From editor at eratiopostmodernpoetry.com Fri Oct 1 08:49:22 2010 From: editor at eratiopostmodernpoetry.com (=?iso-8859-1?Q?e=B7ratio?=) Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2010 08:49:22 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] =?iso-8859-1?q?a_noun_sing_e=B7ratio_call_for_mss?= Message-ID: <79c414ffe1354454a58dc345d7db6c4c.squirrel@webmail4.web.com> e? e?ratio is reading for issue 14, the fall 2010 issue. e?ratio publishes poetry in the postmodern idioms with an emphasis on the intransitive. no simultaneous submissions, please. reply within two weeks. this reading period ends october 31. please see contact page for further info and where to send. http://www.eratiopostmodernpoetry.com/ e? From jforjames at aol.com Fri Oct 1 11:16:12 2010 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2010 11:16:12 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Ladbrokes give odds on Nobel Prize in Literature Message-ID: <8CD2F92B7DA27B9-17C-CF0@Webmail-m110.sysops.aol.com> Awards Nobel Prize in Literature to Be Announced Oct. 7 By Jason Boog on October 1, 2010 9:42 AM On Thursday, October 7th at 1 p.m. CET, the Swedish Academy will announce the winner of the 2010 Nobel Prize in Literature. The announcement will be made in Stockholm, Sweden. According to the UK betting site, Ladbrokes, Polish poet Adam Zagajewski, the Syrian poet Adonis, and the Korean poet Ko Un all have 8/1 odds of winning the prize. Swedish author Tomas Transtromer has the best chance with 5/1 odds. Japan?s Haruki Murakami and Autstralia?s Les Murray both have 11/1 odds of winning. Check it out: ?The announcement, and an interview with Peter Englund, Permanent Secretary of the Swedish Academy, about the 2010 Nobel Prize in Literaturewill later be published here as video on-demand.? (Via Michael Orthofer) RELATED: http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2010/sep/30/poet-tipped-nobel-prize-literature -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at gmail.com Fri Oct 1 11:25:27 2010 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2010 10:25:27 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Ladbrokes give odds on Nobel Prize in Literature In-Reply-To: <8CD2F92B7DA27B9-17C-CF0@Webmail-m110.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CD2F92B7DA27B9-17C-CF0@Webmail-m110.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: I've already had a call from Stockholm informing me that I'm not getting it (yet again this year), so you can breathe again. Hal Serving the tri-state area. Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org *Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ;* *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; * ***Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; * ***G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; * *Transparencies & Projections * On Fri, Oct 1, 2010 at 10:16 AM, wrote: > Awards > Nobel Prize in Literature to Be Announced Oct. 7 > By Jason Boog on October 1, 2010 9:42 AM > On Thursday, October 7th at 1 p.m. CET, the Swedish Academy will announce > the winner of the 2010 Nobel Prize in Literature. The announcement will be > made in Stockholm, Sweden. > > According to the UK betting site, Ladbrokes, Polish poet Adam Zagajewski, > the Syrian poet Adonis, and the Korean poet Ko Un all have 8/1 odds of > winning the prize. Swedish author Tomas Transtromer has the best chance with > 5/1 odds. Japan?s Haruki Murakami and Autstralia?s Les Murray both have 11/1 > odds of winning. > > Check it out: ?The announcement, and an interview with Peter Englund, > Permanent Secretary of the Swedish Academy, about the 2010 Nobel Prize in > Literaturewill later be published here as video on-demand.? (Via Michael > Orthofer) > > RELATED: > > http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2010/sep/30/poet-tipped-nobel-prize-literature > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at gmail.com Fri Oct 1 12:08:37 2010 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2010 11:08:37 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Midnight Mass Message-ID: Midnight Mass Not enough evidence to draw any conclusions. At the end of the sermon we all sang a hymn. Arguments tested our faith. Passions and intellects stood test of time. We narrowed our focus. Incurably rational, terribly sorry, furious as all get out. Church, mosque, or synagogue. Something else going on. No obvious reason. Hal Serving the tri-state area. Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org *Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ;* *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; * ***Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; * ***G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; * *Transparencies & Projections * -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Fri Oct 1 13:31:27 2010 From: jforjames at aol.com (n) Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2010 13:31:27 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Brattleboro (VT) Lit Fest In-Reply-To: <4CA4B994020000540006B940@GWSMTP1.SMITH.EDU> References: <4CA4B994020000540006B940@GWSMTP1.SMITH.EDU> Message-ID: <8CD2FA59CD7FE9E-1064-9EC@Webmail-m110.sysops.aol.com> Dear friends of poetry, Brattleboro Literary Festival September 30-October 3 Including Poets Maxine Kumin, Cynthia Zarin, Marilyn Nelson, Ravi Shankar, and David Budbill. Contact: wyncooper at gmail.com www.brattleboroliteraryfestival.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Fri Oct 1 14:37:32 2010 From: jforjames at aol.com (n) Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2010 14:37:32 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] litmag watch: FragLit Message-ID: <8CD2FAED81EFEC2-1C30-258@Webmail-m110.sysops.aol.com> http://www.fraglit.com/flit/archives/category/f-2010 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Fri Oct 1 14:56:42 2010 From: jforjames at aol.com (n) Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2010 14:56:42 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Cities by Elaine Feinstein Message-ID: <8CD2FB1856F9EDE-1054-DB5@webmail-d081.sysops.aol.com> http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2010/sep/25/cities-elaine-feinstein-ruth-padel Compared with America, Britain is strangely deficient in leading Jewish poets. Elaine Feinstein is one of a very few, and her 12th collection is a unique project: a memoir through the lens of remembered cities, -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd at ripon.edu Fri Oct 1 14:57:30 2010 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2010 13:57:30 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] =?iso-8859-1?q?a_noun_sing_e=B7ratio_call_for_mss?= In-Reply-To: <79c414ffe1354454a58dc345d7db6c4c.squirrel@webmail4.web.com> Message-ID: On 10/1/10 7:49 AM, "e?ratio" wrote: > e?ratio publishes > poetry in the postmodern idioms with an emphasis on the intransitive. -- Does anyone know what this might mean? An example, perhaps? ==================================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.me.com/drjazz/ Poetry Library: http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ==================================================== From almaginnes at aol.com Fri Oct 1 15:09:18 2010 From: almaginnes at aol.com (almaginnes at aol.com) Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2010 19:09:18 +0000 Subject: [New-Poetry] =?windows-1252?q?a_noun_sing_e=B7ratio_call_for_mss?= In-Reply-To: References: <79c414ffe1354454a58dc345d7db6c4c.squirrel@webmail4.web.com> Message-ID: <406830108-1285960159-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-850061354-@bda908.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> You want meaning? What kind of nineteenth century thinking is that? Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -----Original Message----- From: David Graham Sender: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2010 13:57:30 To: NewPoetry Reply-To: NewPoetry List Subject: [New-Poetry] a noun sing e?ratio call for mss On 10/1/10 7:49 AM, "e?ratio" wrote: > e?ratio publishes > poetry in the postmodern idioms with an emphasis on the intransitive. -- Does anyone know what this might mean? An example, perhaps? ==================================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.me.com/drjazz/ Poetry Library: http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ==================================================== _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Fri Oct 1 16:22:10 2010 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2010 15:22:10 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] =?iso-8859-1?q?a_noun_sing_e=B7ratio_call_for_mss?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4CA642F2.6090906@nut-n-but.net> On 10/1/2010 1:57 PM, David Graham wrote: > > > On 10/1/10 7:49 AM, "e?ratio" wrote: > >> e?ratio publishes >> poetry in the postmodern idioms with an emphasis on the intransitive. > I don't know, David, never having mastered even what "postmodern" means and why people use such a worthless term. I do know, however, that Gregory St. Thomasino, editor of eratio is a big fan of Emily's, if that's any help. --Bob From c.a.b.daly at gmail.com Fri Oct 1 15:17:56 2010 From: c.a.b.daly at gmail.com (Catherine Daly) Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2010 12:17:56 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] =?iso-8859-1?q?a_noun_sing_e=B7ratio_call_for_mss?= In-Reply-To: References: <79c414ffe1354454a58dc345d7db6c4c.squirrel@webmail4.web.com> Message-ID: lots of samples on the site; very open to visual poetry, etc. On Fri, Oct 1, 2010 at 11:57 AM, David Graham wrote: > > > > On 10/1/10 7:49 AM, "e?ratio" wrote: > > > e?ratio publishes > > poetry in the postmodern idioms with an emphasis on the intransitive. > > - -- All best, Catherine Daly c.a.b.daly at gmail.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Fri Oct 1 15:21:54 2010 From: jforjames at aol.com (n) Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2010 15:21:54 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] =?utf-8?q?a_noun_sing_e=C2=B7ratio_call_for_mss?= In-Reply-To: <4CA642F2.6090906@nut-n-but.net> References: <4CA642F2.6090906@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <8CD2FB50AF39958-1054-145A@webmail-d081.sysops.aol.com> Bob, but you're a living example of 'with an emphasis on the intransigent'? -----Original Message----- From: Bob Grumman To: NewPoetry List Sent: Fri, Oct 1, 2010 4:22 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] a noun sing e?ratio call for mss On 10/1/2010 1:57 PM, David Graham wrote: > > > On 10/1/10 7:49 AM, "e?ratio" wrote: > >> e?ratio publishes >> poetry in the postmodern idioms with an emphasis on the intransitive. > I don't know, David, never having mastered even what "postmodern" means and why people use such a worthless term. I do know, however, that Gregory St. Thomasino, editor of eratio is a big fan of Emily's, if that's any help. --Bob _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Fri Oct 1 15:54:08 2010 From: jforjames at aol.com (n) Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2010 15:54:08 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] game changer Message-ID: <8CD2FB98B3C378B-1054-1B65@webmail-d081.sysops.aol.com> >From the We Who Are About To Die blog.... Ten Rules for Changing the Game,? by Thomas Sayers Ellis. September 28, 2010 http://wewhoareabouttodie.com/2010/09/28/ten-rules-for-changing-the-game-by-thomas-sayers-ellis/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Fri Oct 1 17:31:10 2010 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2010 16:31:10 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] =?utf-8?q?a_noun_sing_e=C2=B7ratio_call_for_mss?= In-Reply-To: <8CD2FB50AF39958-1054-145A@webmail-d081.sysops.aol.com> References: <4CA642F2.6090906@nut-n-but.net> <8CD2FB50AF39958-1054-145A@webmail-d081.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <4CA6531E.1010008@nut-n-but.net> On 10/1/2010 2:21 PM, n wrote: > Bob, but you're a living example of 'with an emphasis on the > intransigent'? Depends on the field. I really don't think believing, for instance, that poetry anthologies should have poems from more kinds of practices than they currently have is an extreme position. I do refuse to change on it, though. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Fri Oct 1 17:35:09 2010 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2010 16:35:09 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] =?utf-8?q?a_noun_sing_e=C2=B7ratio_call_for_mss?= In-Reply-To: <8CD2FB50AF39958-1054-145A@webmail-d081.sysops.aol.com> References: <4CA642F2.6090906@nut-n-but.net> <8CD2FB50AF39958-1054-145A@webmail-d081.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <4CA6540D.6030308@nut-n-but.net> On 10/1/2010 2:21 PM, n wrote: > Bob, but you're a living example of 'with an emphasis on the > intransigent'? What's with this "n" in the from box, James? You confused me into thinking I was replying to David though I should have recognized your style. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd at ripon.edu Fri Oct 1 16:34:25 2010 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2010 15:34:25 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] =?iso-8859-1?q?a_noun_sing_e=B7ratio_call_for_mss?= In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I know what an intransitive verb is. And have looked at the site. Still have no idea what an intransitive poem might be. On 10/1/10 2:17 PM, "Catherine Daly" wrote: > lots of samples on the site; very open to visual poetry, etc. > > On Fri, Oct 1, 2010 at 11:57 AM, David Graham wrote: >> >> >> >> On 10/1/10 7:49 AM, "e?ratio" wrote: >> >>> > ?e?ratio publishes >>> > poetry in the postmodern idioms with an emphasis on the intransitive. >> >> - -- ==================================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.me.com/drjazz/ Poetry Library: http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ==================================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From almaginnes at aol.com Fri Oct 1 16:39:33 2010 From: almaginnes at aol.com (almaginnes at aol.com) Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2010 20:39:33 +0000 Subject: [New-Poetry] =?windows-1252?q?a_noun_sing_e=B7ratio_call_for_mss?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1327663538-1285965573-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-555729372-@bda908.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> I sing the body intransitive Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -----Original Message----- From: David Graham Sender: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2010 15:34:25 To: NewPoetry Reply-To: NewPoetry List Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] a noun sing e?ratio call for mss _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From jforjames at aol.com Fri Oct 1 17:07:53 2010 From: jforjames at aol.com (n) Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2010 17:07:53 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] =?utf-8?q?a_noun_sing_e=C2=B7ratio_call_for_mss?= In-Reply-To: <4CA6540D.6030308@nut-n-but.net> References: <4CA642F2.6090906@nut-n-but.net><8CD2FB50AF39958-1054-145A@webmail-d081.sysops.aol.com> <4CA6540D.6030308@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <8CD2FC3D8AF1DB1-640-399D@webmail-d058.sysops.aol.com> n stands for no, no way, no how, not in your lifetime... -----Original Message----- From: Bob Grumman To: NewPoetry List Sent: Fri, Oct 1, 2010 5:35 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] a noun sing e?ratio call for mss On 10/1/2010 2:21 PM, n wrote: Bob, but you're a living example of 'with an emphasis on the intransigent'? What's with this "n" in the from box, James? You confused me into thinking I was replying to David though I should have recognized your style. --Bob _______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Fri Oct 1 17:10:39 2010 From: jforjames at aol.com (n) Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2010 17:10:39 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] value of contests contested Message-ID: <8CD2FC43BF4724D-640-3A62@webmail-d058.sysops.aol.com> http://poetry.about.com/od/onlinecontests/a/alpaughcontests.htm Exclusive focus on the minor problem of contest fraud, however, has allowed more serious, systemic problems to go unnoticed. What?s really wrong with poetry book contests? They are being rendered less effective each year by the supply side economics that has subsidized their exponential growth and that promises even more in the foreseeable future. A well-advertised contest, judged by a well-known poet, will attract hundreds of manuscripts, each accompanied by a $15 to $25 reading fee. Five hundred entries at the industry standard of $20 a pop will net $10,000. That?s enough to fund the cash award for the winning poet, compensate the judge and screeners, pay the bills for advertising the competition, and even cover the cost of printing the prize-winning book. Since all but the advertising is payable after fees are received, contests are seductively risk-free. Anyone can set up as a publisher for little more than the price of a Web site, a classified ad in a few literary journals, and some low cost, often free, announcements via Internet poetry sites. This risk-free dynamic is a powerful magnet, not just for existing literary presses and journals but for poetry entrepreneurs for whom book publishing would have been a financial impossibility 20 years ago. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From acgold01 at louisville.edu Fri Oct 1 16:56:42 2010 From: acgold01 at louisville.edu (Alan C Golding) Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2010 16:56:42 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Example Message-ID: <4CA612CA.AC48.0004.1@gwise.louisville.edu> eratio publishes poetry in the postmodern idioms with an emphasis on the intransitive. -- "Does anyone know what this might mean? An example, perhaps?" -- "Bananas are an example"--Bruce Andrews. From jforjames at aol.com Fri Oct 1 17:33:33 2010 From: jforjames at aol.com (n) Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2010 17:33:33 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] value of contests contested In-Reply-To: <8CD2FC43BF4724D-640-3A62@webmail-d058.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CD2FC43BF4724D-640-3A62@webmail-d058.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <8CD2FC76EB28846-640-412F@webmail-d058.sysops.aol.com> The term 'poetry entrepreneurs' reminded me of older post on my blog... http://ursprache.blogspot.com/search?q=volvo -----Original Message----- From: n To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Fri, Oct 1, 2010 5:10 pm Subject: [New-Poetry] value of contests contested http://poetry.about.com/od/onlinecontests/a/alpaughcontests.htm Exclusive focus on the minor problem of contest fraud, however, has allowed more serious, systemic problems to go unnoticed. What?s really wrong with poetry book contests? They are being rendered less effective each year by the supply side economics that has subsidized their exponential growth and that promises even more in the foreseeable future. A well-advertised contest, judged by a well-known poet, will attract hundreds of manuscripts, each accompanied by a $15 to $25 reading fee. Five hundred entries at the industry standard of $20 a pop will net $10,000. That?s enough to fund the cash award for the winning poet, compensate the judge and screeners, pay the bills for advertising the competition, and even cover the cost of printing the prize-winning book. Since all but the advertising is payable after fees are received, contests are seductively risk-free. Anyone can set up as a publisher for little more than the price of a Web site, a classified ad in a few literary journals, and some low cost, often free, announcements via Internet poetry sites. This risk-free dynamic is a powerful magnet, not just for existing literary presses and journals but for poetry entrepreneurs for whom book publishing would have been a financial impossibility 20 years ago. _______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at gmail.com Fri Oct 1 17:54:02 2010 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2010 16:54:02 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] =?iso-8859-1?q?a_noun_sing_e=B7ratio_call_for_mss?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Where you are is the perfect place to start writing some, David. I'm wondering who n is. I'm guessing Finnegan, but I deleted a couple figuring they were anon. Hal Serving the tri-state area. Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org *Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ;* *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; * ***Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; * ***G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; * *Transparencies & Projections * On Fri, Oct 1, 2010 at 3:34 PM, David Graham wrote: > I know what an intransitive verb is. And have looked at the site. Still > have no idea what an intransitive poem might be. > > > > > > On 10/1/10 2:17 PM, "Catherine Daly" wrote: > > lots of samples on the site; very open to visual poetry, etc. > > On Fri, Oct 1, 2010 at 11:57 AM, David Graham wrote: > > > > > On 10/1/10 7:49 AM, "e?ratio" wrote: > > > e?ratio publishes > > poetry in the postmodern idioms with an emphasis on the intransitive. > > - > > > -- > > > ==================================================== > > David Graham > grahamd at ripon.edu > Home Page: > http://web.me.com/drjazz/ > > Poetry Library: > http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html > ==================================================== > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fox.skip at gmail.com Fri Oct 1 18:45:22 2010 From: fox.skip at gmail.com (Skip Fox) Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2010 17:45:22 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] value of contests contested In-Reply-To: <8CD2FC76EB28846-640-412F@webmail-d058.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CD2FC43BF4724D-640-3A62@webmail-d058.sysops.aol.com> <8CD2FC76EB28846-640-412F@webmail-d058.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: ". . . like entering your mother in a wet t-shirt contest." On Fri, Oct 1, 2010 at 4:33 PM, n wrote: > The term 'poetry entrepreneurs' reminded me of older post on my blog... > http://ursprache.blogspot.com/search?q=volvo > > > -----Original Message----- > From: n > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Sent: Fri, Oct 1, 2010 5:10 pm > Subject: [New-Poetry] value of contests contested > > > http://poetry.about.com/od/onlinecontests/a/alpaughcontests.htm > > Exclusive focus on the minor problem of contest fraud, however, has allowed > more serious, systemic problems to go unnoticed. What?s really wrong with > poetry book contests? They are being rendered less effective each year by > the supply side economics that has subsidized their exponential growth and > that promises even more in the foreseeable future. > > A well-advertised contest, judged by a well-known poet, will attract > hundreds of manuscripts, each accompanied by a $15 to $25 reading fee. Five > hundred entries at the industry standard of $20 a pop will net $10,000. > That?s enough to fund the cash award for the winning poet, compensate the > judge and screeners, pay the bills for advertising the competition, and even > cover the cost of printing the prize-winning book. > > Since all but the advertising is payable after fees are received, contests > are seductively risk-free. Anyone can set up as a publisher for little more > than the price of a Web site, a classified ad in a few literary journals, > and some low cost, often free, announcements via Internet poetry sites. > This risk-free dynamic is a powerful magnet, not just for existing literary > presses and journals but for poetry entrepreneurs for whom book publishing > would have been a financial impossibility 20 years ago. > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing listNew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.eduhttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From koshinbob at gmail.com Fri Oct 1 16:19:58 2010 From: koshinbob at gmail.com (koshin, Bob Hanson) Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2010 15:19:58 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] litmag watch: FragLit In-Reply-To: <8CD2FAED81EFEC2-1C30-258@Webmail-m110.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CD2FAED81EFEC2-1C30-258@Webmail-m110.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: what a find, thanks for this link....Geezer living alone is great....from a future or present one, peace ko shin Bob Hanson On Fri, Oct 1, 2010 at 1:37 PM, n wrote: > http://www.fraglit.com/flit/archives/category/f-2010 > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Fri Oct 1 19:30:46 2010 From: jforjames at aol.com (n) Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2010 19:30:46 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] litmag watch: FragLit In-Reply-To: References: <8CD2FAED81EFEC2-1C30-258@Webmail-m110.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <8CD2FD7CEA15C54-156C-4B7B@Webmail-d124.sysops.aol.com> Alex, I'm calling you out: Do you know Georges Perros? And what do you think of these translations? http://www.fraglit.com/flit/archives/category/f-2010/page/17 -----Original Message----- From: koshin, Bob Hanson To: NewPoetry List Sent: Fri, Oct 1, 2010 4:19 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] litmag watch: FragLit what a find, thanks for this link....Geezer living alone is great....from a future or present one, peace ko shin Bob Hanson On Fri, Oct 1, 2010 at 1:37 PM, n wrote: http://www.fraglit.com/flit/archives/category/f-2010 _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Fri Oct 1 20:38:26 2010 From: jforjames at aol.com (n) Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2010 20:38:26 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] the dearly departed Message-ID: <8CD2FE142E1B118-156C-58C4@Webmail-d124.sysops.aol.com> http://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=2676#more-2676 The genre began its slow decline two years ago, when Gawker reported the death of the semicolon: The Semicolon died this week at the age of 417 from complications of irrelevancy and misuse. Semicolon was born in England in 1591 to Ben Jonson, the first notable writer to use them "systematically." The mark of punctuation dedicated its career to connecting independent clauses and indicating a closer relationship between the clauses than a period does. But mostly it just confused the shit out of English students everywhere. ? Semicolon is survived by colon, parenthesis and em dash. In lieu of flowers, please send anecdotes of times you have been confused by a semicolon to Farrar, Straus and Giroux, care of Jonathan Franzen. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From elemenope_productions at hotmail.com Fri Oct 1 20:54:22 2010 From: elemenope_productions at hotmail.com (R Dillon) Date: Sat, 2 Oct 2010 00:54:22 +0000 Subject: [New-Poetry] Bob Dylan Assesses ZeroKing At The Whitehouse In-Reply-To: <4CA6540D.6030308@nut-n-but.net> References: <4CA642F2.6090906@nut-n-but.net>, <8CD2FB50AF39958-1054-145A@webmail-d081.sysops.aol.com>, <4CA6540D.6030308@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: Bob Dylan dissed ZeroKing at Whitehouse concert. While not a Tea Partyrallier (yet), he's not a RadLib, and was never a Communist. He's afree enterprise capitalist. Unlike, ZeroKing's DaddyWarBucks, Soros, America's most inimical enemy. Reply 2 - Posted by: Mr. Hat, 9/30/2010 11:04:08 PM (No. 6930279) He got a sweet gift of gab, he got a harmonious tongue He knows every song of love that ever has been sung Good intentions can be evil Both hands can be full of grease You know that sometimes Satan comes as a man of peace. Well, first he's in the background, and then he's in the front Both eyes are looking like they're on a rabbit hunt Nobody can see through him No, not even the Chief of Police You know that sometimes Satan comes as a man of peace. Well, he catch you when you're hoping for a glimpse of the sun Catch you when your troubles feel like they weigh a ton He could be standing next to you The person that you'd notice least I hear that sometimes Satan comes as a man of peace. Well, he can be fascinating, he can be dull He can ride down Niagara Falls in the barrels of your skull I can smell something cooking I can tell there's going to be a feast You know that sometimes Satan comes as a man of peace. He's a great humanitarian, he's great philanthropist He knows just where to touch you honey, and how you like to be kissed He'll put both his arms around you You can feel the tender touch of the beast You know that sometimes Satan comes as a man of peace. ~~Bob Dylan - Man of Peace Met him, once, in a snowstorm, at an airport. Never not on his beat. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From koshin at centurytel.net Fri Oct 1 22:04:07 2010 From: koshin at centurytel.net (Bob Hanson) Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2010 21:04:07 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Bob Dylan Assesses ZeroKing At The Whitehouse In-Reply-To: References: <4CA642F2.6090906@nut-n-but.net>, <8CD2FB50AF39958-1054-145A@webmail-d081.sysops.aol.com>, <4CA6540D.6030308@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <00d701cb61d6$19ed9f90$4dc8deb0$@net> Did you see the latest Rolling Stone interview with Obama, last page does not say he felt dissed, interesting. peace, ko shin, Bob Hanson Ko shin's Blogs: http://chasingwindmillswhynot.blogspot.com/ June 2010: http://adharmabumreportingfromnaropa.blogspot.com/ Face Book: Bob koshin Hanson Tweeter: 1940oldman 920 293 8856 Home 414 234 0954 Cell skype 920 240 4325 Added June 3, 2010: FACT: More peace activists were killed on 31-May-2010, than Israelis have been killed, by Gaza rockets, in 10 years Tweeter on this day seeker of truth by e. e. cummings seeker of truth follow no path all paths lead where truth is here "If you are neutral in situations of injustice, you have chosen the side of the oppressor." ~ Desmund Tutu. Without compassion, what hope? Q: Is there any cause for optimism? A: Well, personally, yeah. Everybody's got a life to lead and they've got a bodhisattva tendency, everybody wants to do good, so I just think on a personal level, yeah. On a larger scale, there doesn't seem to be any hope unless compassion becomes a more widespread important teaching on how to live. Compassion to self and others.-Allen Ginsberg, from "Spontaneous Intelligence: An Interview with Allen Ginsberg," Tricycle, Fall 1995 There are those who do not realize that one day we all must die. But those who do realize this settle their quarrels. Dhammapada 1.6 From: new-poetry-bounces at charlemagne.cddc.vt.edu [mailto:new-poetry-bounces at charlemagne.cddc.vt.edu] On Behalf Of R Dillon Sent: Friday, October 01, 2010 7:54 PM To: new-poetry at charlemagne.cddc.vt.edu Subject: [New-Poetry] Bob Dylan Assesses ZeroKing At The Whitehouse Bob Dylan dissed ZeroKing at Whitehouse concert. While not a Tea Party rallier (yet), he's not a RadLib, and was never a Communist. He's a free enterprise capitalist. Unlike, ZeroKing's DaddyWarBucks, Soros, America's most inimical enemy. Reply 2 - Posted by: Mr. Hat, 9/30/2010 11:04:08 PM (No. 6930279) He got a sweet gift of gab, he got a harmonious tongue He knows every song of love that ever has been sung Good intentions can be evil Both hands can be full of grease You know that sometimes Satan comes as a man of peace. Well, first he's in the background, and then he's in the front Both eyes are looking like they're on a rabbit hunt Nobody can see through him No, not even the Chief of Police You know that sometimes Satan comes as a man of peace. Well, he catch you when you're hoping for a glimpse of the sun Catch you when your troubles feel like they weigh a ton He could be standing next to you The person that you'd notice least I hear that sometimes Satan comes as a man of peace. Well, he can be fascinating, he can be dull He can ride down Niagara Falls in the barrels of your skull I can smell something cooking I can tell there's going to be a feast You know that sometimes Satan comes as a man of peace. He's a great humanitarian, he's great philanthropist He knows just where to touch you honey, and how you like to be kissed He'll put both his arms around you You can feel the tender touch of the beast You know that sometimes Satan comes as a man of peace. ~~Bob Dylan - Man of Peace Met him, once, in a snowstorm, at an airport. Never not on his beat. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Fri Oct 1 23:13:55 2010 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2010 22:13:55 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] the dearly departed In-Reply-To: <8CD2FE142E1B118-156C-58C4@Webmail-d124.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CD2FE142E1B118-156C-58C4@Webmail-d124.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <4CA6A373.80704@nut-n-but.net> On 10/1/2010 7:38 PM, n wrote: > http://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=2676#more-2676 > The genre began its slow decline two years ago, when Gawker > reported the death of the semicolon: > > The Semicolon died this week at the age of 417 from complications > of irrelevancy and misuse. Semicolon was born in England in 1591 > to Ben Jonson, the first notable writer to use them > "systematically." The mark of punctuation dedicated its career to > connecting independent clauses and indicating a closer > relationship between the clauses than a period does. But mostly it > just confused the shit out of English students everywhere. ? > Semicolon is survived by colon, parenthesis and em dash. In lieu > of flowers, please send anecdotes of times you have been confused > by a semicolon to Farrar, Straus and Giroux, care of Jonathan Franzen. > I don't think I could live without the semi-colon. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From alexdickow9 at yahoo.com Sat Oct 2 05:01:25 2010 From: alexdickow9 at yahoo.com (Alexander Dickow) Date: Sat, 2 Oct 2010 02:01:25 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] litmag watch: FragLit In-Reply-To: <8CD2FD7CEA15C54-156C-4B7B@Webmail-d124.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CD2FAED81EFEC2-1C30-258@Webmail-m110.sysops.aol.com> <8CD2FD7CEA15C54-156C-4B7B@Webmail-d124.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <142278.68185.qm@web35501.mail.mud.yahoo.com> ? Hi Jim, I don't know Perros' work terribly well, but from what I do know of it, it's delightful. I'm more attracted to his less well-known long poem of sorts, An Ordinary Life (I'm not sure it's translated) rather than Papiers colles. These translations seem properly done, as far as I can tell without taking a close look at the original. Since you're interested in aphorism, along with Perros and de Chazal (mentioned by me a while ago), try the Belgian Louis Scutenaire (don't know if there are translations), as well as, naturally, Felix Feneon. And for the incisive remark, Jules Renard's journal. Happy reading! Amicalement, Alex www.alexdickow.net/blog/ les mots! ah quel d?sert ? la fin merveilleux. -- Henri Droguet ________________________________ From: n To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Sat, October 2, 2010 1:30:46 AM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] litmag watch: FragLit Alex, I'm calling you out: Do you know Georges Perros? And what do you think of these translations? http://www.fraglit.com/flit/archives/category/f-2010/page/17 -----Original Message----- From: koshin, Bob Hanson To: NewPoetry List Sent: Fri, Oct 1, 2010 4:19 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] litmag watch: FragLit what a find, thanks for this link....Geezer living alone is great....from a future or present one, peace ko shin Bob Hanson On Fri, Oct 1, 2010 at 1:37 PM, n wrote: http://www.fraglit.com/flit/archives/category/f-2010 >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From robin.hamilton3 at virginmedia.com Sat Oct 2 07:21:55 2010 From: robin.hamilton3 at virginmedia.com (Robin Hamilton) Date: Sat, 2 Oct 2010 12:21:55 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] litmag watch: FragLit In-Reply-To: <142278.68185.qm@web35501.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <8CD2FAED81EFEC2-1C30-258@Webmail-m110.sysops.aol.com><8CD2FD7CEA15C54-156C-4B7B@Webmail-d124.sysops.aol.com> <142278.68185.qm@web35501.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <96E4064DB36A480486D227F31DF80915@OwnerPC> ... try the Belgian Louis Scutenaire (don't know if there are translations) ... I think some of his stuff may be translated among the various works on Magritte, which is where I've come across him. Didn't he share with Magritte a liking for Fantomas? Robin From: Alexander Dickow Sent: Saturday, October 02, 2010 10:01 AM To: NewPoetry List Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] litmag watch: FragLit Hi Jim, I don't know Perros' work terribly well, but from what I do know of it, it's delightful. I'm more attracted to his less well-known long poem of sorts, An Ordinary Life (I'm not sure it's translated) rather than Papiers colles. These translations seem properly done, as far as I can tell without taking a close look at the original. Since you're interested in aphorism, along with Perros and de Chazal (mentioned by me a while ago), try the Belgian Louis Scutenaire (don't know if there are translations), as well as, naturally, Felix Feneon. And for the incisive remark, Jules Renard's journal. Happy reading! Amicalement, Alex www.alexdickow.net/blog/ les mots! ah quel d?sert ? la fin merveilleux. -- Henri Droguet -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: n To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Sat, October 2, 2010 1:30:46 AM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] litmag watch: FragLit Alex, I'm calling you out: Do you know Georges Perros? And what do you think of these translations? http://www.fraglit.com/flit/archives/category/f-2010/page/17 -----Original Message----- From: koshin, Bob Hanson To: NewPoetry List Sent: Fri, Oct 1, 2010 4:19 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] litmag watch: FragLit what a find, thanks for this link....Geezer living alone is great....from a future or present one, peace ko shin Bob Hanson On Fri, Oct 1, 2010 at 1:37 PM, n wrote: http://www.fraglit.com/flit/archives/category/f-2010 _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fox.skip at gmail.com Sat Oct 2 08:03:43 2010 From: fox.skip at gmail.com (Skip Fox) Date: Sat, 2 Oct 2010 07:03:43 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] the dearly departed In-Reply-To: <4CA6A373.80704@nut-n-but.net> References: <8CD2FE142E1B118-156C-58C4@Webmail-d124.sysops.aol.com> <4CA6A373.80704@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: Heck, just after I went out and got a colostomy in its honor. On Fri, Oct 1, 2010 at 10:13 PM, Bob Grumman wrote: > On 10/1/2010 7:38 PM, n wrote: > > http://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=2676#more-2676 > > The genre began its slow decline two years ago, when Gawkerreported the death of the semicolon: > > The Semicolon died this week at the age of 417 from complications of > irrelevancy and misuse. Semicolon was born in England in 1591 to Ben Jonson, > the first notable writer to use them "systematically." The mark of > punctuation dedicated its career to connecting independent clauses and > indicating a closer relationship between the clauses than a period does. But > mostly it just confused the shit out of English students everywhere. ? > > Semicolon is survived by colon, parenthesis and em dash. In lieu of > flowers, please send anecdotes of times you have been confused by a > semicolon to Farrar, Straus and Giroux, care of Jonathan Franzen. > > > I don't think I could live without the semi-colon. > > --Bob > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From alexdickow9 at yahoo.com Sat Oct 2 09:22:23 2010 From: alexdickow9 at yahoo.com (Alexander Dickow) Date: Sat, 2 Oct 2010 06:22:23 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] litmag watch: FragLit In-Reply-To: <96E4064DB36A480486D227F31DF80915@OwnerPC> References: <8CD2FAED81EFEC2-1C30-258@Webmail-m110.sysops.aol.com><8CD2FD7CEA15C54-156C-4B7B@Webmail-d124.sysops.aol.com> <142278.68185.qm@web35501.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <96E4064DB36A480486D227F31DF80915@OwnerPC> Message-ID: <848867.99606.qm@web35508.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hi Robin, Yes, Scutenaire was a buddy of Magritte's. I'm not sure about Fantomas; it's possible,?but?I gave a paper recently about the character in the work of?Apollinaire, Cendrars and Max Jacob. Fascinating phenomenon. Amicalement, Alex? ? www.alexdickow.net/blog/ les mots! ah quel d?sert ? la fin merveilleux. -- Henri Droguet ________________________________ From: Robin Hamilton To: NewPoetry List Sent: Sat, October 2, 2010 1:21:55 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] litmag watch: FragLit ... try the Belgian Louis Scutenaire (don't know if there are translations) ... I think some of his stuff may be translated among the various works on Magritte, which is where I've come across him.? Didn't he share with Magritte a liking for Fantomas? ? Robin From: Alexander Dickow Sent: Saturday, October 02, 2010 10:01 AM To: NewPoetry List Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] litmag watch: FragLit ? Hi Jim, I don't know Perros' work terribly well, but from what I do know of it, it's delightful. I'm more attracted to his less well-known long poem of sorts, An Ordinary Life (I'm not sure it's translated) rather than Papiers colles. These translations seem properly done, as far as I can tell without taking a close look at the original. Since you're interested in aphorism, along with Perros and de Chazal (mentioned by me a while ago), try the Belgian Louis Scutenaire (don't know if there are translations), as well as, naturally, Felix Feneon. And for the incisive remark, Jules Renard's journal. Happy reading! Amicalement, Alex www.alexdickow.net/blog/ les mots! ah quel d?sert ? la fin merveilleux. -- Henri Droguet ________________________________ From: n To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Sat, October 2, 2010 1:30:46 AM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] litmag watch: FragLit Alex, I'm calling you out: Do you know Georges Perros? And what do you think of these translations? http://www.fraglit.com/flit/archives/category/f-2010/page/17 -----Original Message----- From: koshin, Bob Hanson To: NewPoetry List Sent: Fri, Oct 1, 2010 4:19 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] litmag watch: FragLit what a find, thanks for this link....Geezer living alone is great....from a future or present one, peace ko shin Bob Hanson On Fri, Oct 1, 2010 at 1:37 PM, n wrote: http://www.fraglit.com/flit/archives/category/f-2010 >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry ________________________________ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd at ripon.edu Sat Oct 2 11:04:25 2010 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Sat, 2 Oct 2010 10:04:25 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Call for poetry remissions In-Reply-To: <79c414ffe1354454a58dc345d7db6c4c.squirrel@webmail4.web.com> References: <79c414ffe1354454a58dc345d7db6c4c.squirrel@webmail4.web.com> Message-ID: <3F0FF6C3-E93B-41A8-BDCF-6AC1056AFD9F@ripon.edu> *p* is now accepting ultraduplicative, recalcitrant, and homologous pan-word(y) machines for its upcoming issue. Our theme is "sTimu/lations" and we are emphasizing humid and calciferous work in the post-idiomatic idiom. Please submit 300 to 1700.33 characters to our branch office, and then just cool your jets for a while, OK? Our reading period ends when we say it ends. No acrimonious emissions, please. "*k*" ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.me.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at gmail.com Sat Oct 2 11:13:14 2010 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Sat, 2 Oct 2010 10:13:14 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Call for poetry remissions In-Reply-To: <3F0FF6C3-E93B-41A8-BDCF-6AC1056AFD9F@ripon.edu> References: <79c414ffe1354454a58dc345d7db6c4c.squirrel@webmail4.web.com> <3F0FF6C3-E93B-41A8-BDCF-6AC1056AFD9F@ripon.edu> Message-ID: Toward a more acronymious debate/discussion/chat: http://moreintelligentlife.com/content/ideas/lane-greene/omg-etc Hal Serving the tri-state area. Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org *Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ;* *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; * ***Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; * ***G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; * *Transparencies & Projections * On Sat, Oct 2, 2010 at 10:04 AM, David Graham wrote: > *p* is now accepting ultraduplicative, recalcitrant, and homologous > pan-word(y) machines for its upcoming issue. Our theme is "sTimu/lations" > and we are emphasizing humid and calciferous work in the post-idiomatic > idiom. Please submit 300 to 1700.33 characters to our branch office, and > then just cool your jets for a while, OK? Our reading period ends when we > say it ends. No acrimonious emissions, please. > > "*k*" > ======================================== > David Graham > grahamd at ripon.edu > > Home Page: > http://web.me.com/drjazz > > Poetry Library: > http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html > ========================================== > > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tomkostro at sprintmail.com Sat Oct 2 11:23:03 2010 From: tomkostro at sprintmail.com (Tom Kostro) Date: Sat, 2 Oct 2010 11:23:03 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] the dearly departed In-Reply-To: References: <8CD2FE142E1B118-156C-58C4@Webmail-d124.sysops.aol.com> <4CA6A373.80704@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <05835610-3505-47E3-96A7-4CD9B0037DFF@sprintmail.com> Hey dis is really funny like whats UP doc a semi colon siwwy. On Oct 2, 2010, at 8:03 AM, Skip Fox wrote: > Heck, just after I went out and got a colostomy in its honor. > > On Fri, Oct 1, 2010 at 10:13 PM, Bob Grumman wrote: > On 10/1/2010 7:38 PM, n wrote: >> >> http://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=2676#more-2676 >> >> The genre began its slow decline two years ago, when Gawker reported the death of the semicolon: >> The Semicolon died this week at the age of 417 from complications of irrelevancy and misuse. Semicolon was born in England in 1591 to Ben Jonson, the first notable writer to use them "systematically." The mark of punctuation dedicated its career to connecting independent clauses and indicating a closer relationship between the clauses than a period does. But mostly it just confused the shit out of English students everywhere. ? >> >> Semicolon is survived by colon, parenthesis and em dash. In lieu of flowers, please send anecdotes of times you have been confused by a semicolon to Farrar, Straus and Giroux, care of Jonathan Franzen. > > I don't think I could live without the semi-colon. > > --Bob > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tomkostro at sprintmail.com Sat Oct 2 11:27:52 2010 From: tomkostro at sprintmail.com (Tom Kostro) Date: Sat, 2 Oct 2010 11:27:52 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Example In-Reply-To: <4CA612CA.AC48.0004.1@gwise.louisville.edu> References: <4CA612CA.AC48.0004.1@gwise.louisville.edu> Message-ID: <5C8CCA59-2F65-4083-80E9-44A3F862BB63@sprintmail.com> gd 4 u alan you guys are sooooooooooo soooooooooo On Oct 1, 2010, at 4:56 PM, Alan C Golding wrote: > eratio publishes > poetry in the postmodern idioms with an emphasis on the intransitive. > > -- > > "Does anyone know what this might mean? An example, perhaps?" > > -- > > "Bananas are an example"--Bruce Andrews. > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From fox.skip at gmail.com Sat Oct 2 11:52:39 2010 From: fox.skip at gmail.com (Skip Fox) Date: Sat, 2 Oct 2010 10:52:39 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] the dearly departed In-Reply-To: <05835610-3505-47E3-96A7-4CD9B0037DFF@sprintmail.com> References: <8CD2FE142E1B118-156C-58C4@Webmail-d124.sysops.aol.com> <4CA6A373.80704@nut-n-but.net> <05835610-3505-47E3-96A7-4CD9B0037DFF@sprintmail.com> Message-ID: United parcel, the opposite of down yet under paid, a capitalized horizontal insistence, an unpresuming yet ruddy preposition, the domicile of the Current Resident (diety, that is), another levitant, like humor. (How did you know "doc"?) On Sat, Oct 2, 2010 at 10:23 AM, Tom Kostro wrote: > Hey dis is really funny like whats UP doc > > a semi colon siwwy. > On Oct 2, 2010, at 8:03 AM, Skip Fox wrote: > > Heck, just after I went out and got a colostomy in its honor. > > On Fri, Oct 1, 2010 at 10:13 PM, Bob Grumman wrote: > >> On 10/1/2010 7:38 PM, n wrote: >> >> http://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=2676#more-2676 >> >> The genre began its slow decline two years ago, when Gawkerreported the death of the semicolon: >> >> The Semicolon died this week at the age of 417 from complications of >> irrelevancy and misuse. Semicolon was born in England in 1591 to Ben Jonson, >> the first notable writer to use them "systematically." The mark of >> punctuation dedicated its career to connecting independent clauses and >> indicating a closer relationship between the clauses than a period does. But >> mostly it just confused the shit out of English students everywhere. ? >> >> Semicolon is survived by colon, parenthesis and em dash. In lieu of >> flowers, please send anecdotes of times you have been confused by a >> semicolon to Farrar, Straus and Giroux, care of Jonathan Franzen. >> >> >> I don't think I could live without the semi-colon. >> >> --Bob >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tomkostro at sprintmail.com Sat Oct 2 12:36:07 2010 From: tomkostro at sprintmail.com (Tom Kostro) Date: Sat, 2 Oct 2010 12:36:07 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] the dearly departed In-Reply-To: References: <8CD2FE142E1B118-156C-58C4@Webmail-d124.sysops.aol.com> <4CA6A373.80704@nut-n-but.net> <05835610-3505-47E3-96A7-4CD9B0037DFF@sprintmail.com> Message-ID: bugs bunny how else On Oct 2, 2010, at 11:52 AM, Skip Fox wrote: > United parcel, the opposite of down yet under paid, a capitalized horizontal insistence, an unpresuming yet ruddy preposition, the domicile of the Current Resident (diety, that is), another levitant, like humor. (How did you know "doc"?) > > > > On Sat, Oct 2, 2010 at 10:23 AM, Tom Kostro wrote: > Hey dis is really funny like whats UP doc > > a semi colon siwwy. > On Oct 2, 2010, at 8:03 AM, Skip Fox wrote: > >> Heck, just after I went out and got a colostomy in its honor. >> >> On Fri, Oct 1, 2010 at 10:13 PM, Bob Grumman wrote: >> On 10/1/2010 7:38 PM, n wrote: >>> >>> http://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=2676#more-2676 >>> >>> The genre began its slow decline two years ago, when Gawker reported the death of the semicolon: >>> The Semicolon died this week at the age of 417 from complications of irrelevancy and misuse. Semicolon was born in England in 1591 to Ben Jonson, the first notable writer to use them "systematically." The mark of punctuation dedicated its career to connecting independent clauses and indicating a closer relationship between the clauses than a period does. But mostly it just confused the shit out of English students everywhere. ? >>> >>> Semicolon is survived by colon, parenthesis and em dash. In lieu of flowers, please send anecdotes of times you have been confused by a semicolon to Farrar, Straus and Giroux, care of Jonathan Franzen. >> >> I don't think I could live without the semi-colon. >> >> --Bob >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fox.skip at gmail.com Sat Oct 2 13:24:45 2010 From: fox.skip at gmail.com (Skip Fox) Date: Sat, 2 Oct 2010 12:24:45 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] the dearly departed In-Reply-To: References: <8CD2FE142E1B118-156C-58C4@Webmail-d124.sysops.aol.com> <4CA6A373.80704@nut-n-but.net> <05835610-3505-47E3-96A7-4CD9B0037DFF@sprintmail.com> Message-ID: former student On Sat, Oct 2, 2010 at 11:36 AM, Tom Kostro wrote: > bugs bunny how else > > On Oct 2, 2010, at 11:52 AM, Skip Fox wrote: > > United parcel, the opposite of down yet under paid, a capitalized > horizontal insistence, an unpresuming yet ruddy preposition, the domicile of > the Current Resident (diety, that is), another levitant, like humor. (How > did you know "doc"?) > > > > On Sat, Oct 2, 2010 at 10:23 AM, Tom Kostro wrote: > >> Hey dis is really funny like whats UP doc >> >> a semi colon siwwy. >> On Oct 2, 2010, at 8:03 AM, Skip Fox wrote: >> >> Heck, just after I went out and got a colostomy in its honor. >> >> On Fri, Oct 1, 2010 at 10:13 PM, Bob Grumman wrote: >> >>> On 10/1/2010 7:38 PM, n wrote: >>> >>> http://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=2676#more-2676 >>> >>> The genre began its slow decline two years ago, when Gawkerreported the death of the semicolon: >>> >>> The Semicolon died this week at the age of 417 from complications of >>> irrelevancy and misuse. Semicolon was born in England in 1591 to Ben Jonson, >>> the first notable writer to use them "systematically." The mark of >>> punctuation dedicated its career to connecting independent clauses and >>> indicating a closer relationship between the clauses than a period does. But >>> mostly it just confused the shit out of English students everywhere. ? >>> >>> Semicolon is survived by colon, parenthesis and em dash. In lieu of >>> flowers, please send anecdotes of times you have been confused by a >>> semicolon to Farrar, Straus and Giroux, care of Jonathan Franzen. >>> >>> >>> I don't think I could live without the semi-colon. >>> >>> --Bob >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> New-Poetry mailing list >>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Sat Oct 2 13:36:24 2010 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sat, 2 Oct 2010 19:36:24 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] American Responses to the Holocaust: Transatlantic Perspectives Message-ID: *Netherlands American Studies Association (NASA) * *Belgian Luxembourg American Studies Association (BLASA)* * * *American Responses to the Holocaust: Transatlantic Perspectives* * * *June 15-17, 2011* *Roosevelt Study Center* *Middelburg, The Netherlands* * * * * *Call for Papers* The Netherlands American Studies Association and the Belgian Luxembourg American Studies Association are pleased to announce that they will be co-organizing an international conference titled *American Responses to the Holocaust: Transatlantic Perspectives**,* to be held at the Roosevelt Study Center in Middelburg, the Netherlands, June 15-17, 2011. The conference aims to explore American responses to the Holocaust and the ways in which the systematic destruction of European Jewry during the Second World War has figured in American politics, in important cultural and social debates in the United States, in American literature and popular culture, and in other aspects of American life, such as religion, education, and jurisprudence. The organizers encourage contributions from scholars interested in the United States and the Holocaust from as diverse a range of disciplines as possible, including history, historiography, the social sciences, cultural studies, literary studies, museum studies, gender studies, religious studies, memory studies, ethics, and law. We encourage multi- and interdisciplinary approaches to the topic, which we hope will bring a new American studies perspective to what has traditionally been the focus of Jewish Studies and Holocaust studies. We are particularly interested in papers that explore the responses to the Holocaust from a transatlantic perspective in the belief that a comparative approach that takes into account the similarities and differences between responses in Europe and the United States is useful and enlightening for American studies scholars and can contribute new and valuable insights into the ways in which the Holocaust has figured in American life. We hope to explore especially how American responses to the Holocaust contradicted, provoked, or changed European reactions. The following are just some of the themes that conference papers could address: government responses to the Holocaust during and right after World War II; the effects of the Holocaust on foreign policy toward Israel and intervention elsewhere in the world since World War II; responses to the Holocaust in fiction and other arts, and in popular culture, such as film and television; post-memory and second-generation experience as reflected in literature and other art forms; museums and Holocaust memorials as expressions or embodiments of public memory of the Holocaust; debates on the use of the term Holocaust and their implications for memory of the *Shoah*; legal responses to Holocaust denial and revisionism; theological responses to the Holocaust within Judaism and other religions; the role of education in remembering the Holocaust and the place of the Holocaust in the curriculum; the emergence of (comparative) genocide studies in the wake of Holocaust studies; and any other aspects of American life in which effects of the Holocaust are present, either explicitly or implicitly. * * The conference organizers are Gert Buelens (Ghent University), Hans Krabbendam (Roosevelt Study Center), and Derek Rubin (Utrecht University) in cooperation with the Center for Holocaust and Genocide Studies in Amsterdam. A selection of the papers will serve as the basis for a thematically coherent collection of essays to be submitted for possible publication in the Amsterdam University Press series New Debates in American Studies. Those interested in presenting a paper are kindly requested to submit a one-page proposal for a 20-minute presentation and a brief *curriculum vitae *before *December 1,* 2010 to Hans Krabbendam jl.krabbendam at zeeland.nl .** Please note that conference participants are expected to cover their own travel and hotel expenses. -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Sat Oct 2 13:35:25 2010 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sat, 2 Oct 2010 19:35:25 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] research fellowships in art and visual culture of the United States Message-ID: The Smithsonian American Art Museum and its Renwick Gallery invite applications for research fellowships in art and visual culture of the United States. Fellowships are residential and support full-time independent and dissertation research. The collection of the Smithsonian American Art Museum spans the nation's artistic heritage, representing outstanding visual accomplishments from the seventeenth century to the present day. Comprising more than 42,000 objects, this unparalleled collection includes special strengths in nineteenth- and twentieth-century marble and bronze sculpture, nineteenth-century landscape painting, Gilded Age and American impressionist paintings, twentieth-century realism, photography and graphic art, folk art, Latino art, and African American art. Resources Each scholar is provided a carrel in the Fellowship Office located across the street from the Museum. Available research resources there include a 180,000-volume library that specializes in American art, history, and biography; the Archives of American Art; the National Portrait Gallery; and the graphics collections of American Art and the Portrait Gallery; as well as a variety of image collections and research databases. Conveniently located in downtown Washington, D.C., the Museum and Fellowship Office are a short walk from other Smithsonian museums and libraries, the Library of Congress, the National Archives, and the National Gallery of Art. During their stay at the Smithsonian American Art Museum, scholars will be part of one of the nation's oldest and most distinguished fellowship programs in American art, and will have the opportunity to attend a wide variety of lectures, symposiums, and professional workshops. Short research trips are also possible. Support The stipend for a one-year predoctoral fellowship is $30,000, plus research and travel allowances. The stipend for a one-year postdoctoral or senior fellowship is $45,000, plus research and travel allowances. The standard term of residency for fellowships is twelve months, but shorter terms will be considered; stipends are prorated for periods of less than twelve months. Research Proposals All applicants are encouraged to discuss their research proposals with potential Smithsonian advisors before submitting applications. For research consultation, contact: Dr. Virginia Mecklenburg at mecklenburgv at si.edu; or Dr. Cynthia Mills at millsc at si.edu. Deadline Applications are due January 15, 2011. The online application will be available starting on October 1st at AmericanArt.si.edu/fellowships. For more information, please email AmericanArtFellowships at si.edu < mailto:SAAMFellowships at si.edu > . -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Sat Oct 2 14:39:45 2010 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Sat, 02 Oct 2010 14:39:45 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Olson at the Century Message-ID: <8CD307851C012E5-1C74-E779@webmail-d079.sysops.aol.com> This year, on the 100th anniversary of his birth, Olson is being feted at conferences and symposia at several universities and poetry centers, including the University at Buffalo, where he taught from 1963 to 1965. The UB Poetics Program will present "Olson at the Century: A Symposium" Oct. 14-16 on UB's North Campus and at venues in the City of Buffalo. http://www.buffalo.edu/news/11805 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Sat Oct 2 17:41:08 2010 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Sat, 02 Oct 2010 17:41:08 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] If you're in London on Halloween... Message-ID: <8CD3091A8B20DC8-1CD0-12497@Webmail-d123.sysops.aol.com> http://www.battleofideas.org.uk/index.php/2010/session_detail/4102/ Poetry and the tyranny of relevance Sunday 31 October, 5.30pm until 6.30pm, Lecture Theatre 2 Thought for the day The appointment of Carol Ann Duffy ? well known from her place on the curriculum - as Laureate, and the controversies over the election of the Oxford Professor of Poetry, have kept the sullen art in the headlines. Christopher Reid picked up the 2009 Costa Book of the Year for his collection A Scattering, while Bright Star saw John Keats join Dylan Thomas, Allan Ginsberg and Sylvia Plath as recent stars of the big screen. Poetry performances are increasingly popular at music festivals and at gigs, and pop stars such as Mike Scott (of Waterboys fame) and Rufus Wainwright have even recorded musical interpretations of WB Yeats and Shakespeare?s sonnets. Yet increasingly it feels as if poetry?s renaissance is built on a constant rebranding to make poetry relevant to our daily lives... -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Sun Oct 3 13:42:13 2010 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Sun, 03 Oct 2010 13:42:13 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] George Oppen's 'Ballad' on Poem Talk Message-ID: <8CD313972D4F1DE-11C8-1A2A2@webmail-m053.sysops.aol.com> http://poemtalkatkwh.blogspot.com/2008/02/oppen.html -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Sun Oct 3 13:34:48 2010 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Sun, 03 Oct 2010 13:34:48 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: Wallace Stevens Journal Moves to Johns Hopkins Univ Press In-Reply-To: <04CF25DC5B7C274DB65C48A0C4CEC6F1663AC2@mbox1.ad.clarkson.edu> References: <04CF25DC5B7C274DB65C48A0C4CEC6F1663AC2@mbox1.ad.clarkson.edu> Message-ID: <8CD313867076FFD-11C8-1A1BD@webmail-m053.sysops.aol.com> -----Original Message----- From: John N. Serio - jserio To: John N. Serio - jserio Sent: Sun, Oct 3, 2010 1:12 pm Subject: Wallace Stevens Journal Moves to Johns Hopkins Univ Press I'm pleased to announce that effective January 2011 The Wallace Stevens Journal will be published for the Wallace Stevens Society by The Johns Hopkins University Press. We are proud to join their impressive lineup of high quality scholarly journals. Individuals who subscribe to the journal will continue to be members of the Wallace Stevens Society and rates will remain stable. A new editorial team, including an expanded panel of distinguished scholars, will come aboard. Bart Eeckhout, University of Antwerp, Belgium, will become the editor (bart.eeckhout at ua.ac.be). Bonnie Costello will serve as the book review editor (boncos at bu.edu); James Finnegan as the poetry editor (jforjames at aol.com); and Alexis Serio as the art editor (aserio at uttyler.edu). Starting now, relevant submissions or correspondence should be sent directly to these individuals. The Wallace Stevens Society will also have a new slate of officers: Lisa Goldfarb will serve as President; Glen MacLeod as Vice President; and Natalie Gerber as Secretary-Treasurer. A new Wallace Stevens Society Web page will remain at . Please visit it for information on how to subscribe and become a member of the Society, news about upcoming events and calls for papers, submission guidelines, or to use the free concordance to Stevens' poetry. I hope you will share in my excitement about this landmark transition and help spread the word. I have attached a file with more detailed information. This fall's issue of the journal will be my last, and I can't express how indebted I am to so many of you for your help and support over these many years. Molte grazie tutti quanti! Ciao John John N. Serio, Editor Wallace Stevens Journal Clarkson University Box 5750 8 Clarkson Avenue Potsdam, NY 13699 P: 315 268 6410 F: 315 268 3983 W: wallacestevens.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From alexdickow9 at yahoo.com Mon Oct 4 07:24:30 2010 From: alexdickow9 at yahoo.com (Alexander Dickow) Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2010 04:24:30 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] From the Mouth of the Gulper Eel: find the gimmick, win a signed book of poetry Message-ID: <715452.76390.qm@web35503.mail.mud.yahoo.com> >From Adam Biles at Gulper Eel, http://gulpereel.net/frontpage/?p=1429: Alexander Dickow's Riddle Sonnet. ? Alexander has composed a sonnet with a difference for Gulper Eel. What we want you to tell us is ? what?s the gimmick? The most detailed answer received before the end of the month will win a signed copy of Caramboles, Alexander?s much lauded bilingual poetry collection. All answers to editor at gulpereel.net. The solution and the name of the winner will be published on the 1st of November. Alexander will be the judge, and his decision is final. Enjoy. ? www.alexdickow.net/blog/ les mots! ah quel d?sert ? la fin merveilleux. -- Henri Droguet ? www.alexdickow.net/blog/ les mots! ah quel d?sert ? la fin merveilleux. -- Henri Droguet -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From editor at eratiopostmodernpoetry.com Mon Oct 4 11:37:01 2010 From: editor at eratiopostmodernpoetry.com (=?iso-8859-1?Q?e=B7ratio?=) Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2010 11:37:01 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Jack Foley on the movie, Howl Message-ID: e? Jack Foley on the movie, Howl. (With James Franco as Allen Ginsberg.) http://eratio.blogspot.com/ e? From tomkostro at sprintmail.com Mon Oct 4 12:56:07 2010 From: tomkostro at sprintmail.com (Tom Kostro) Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2010 12:56:07 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] poetry workshoop announcement from In-Reply-To: <548711.92725.qm@web83306.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: <548711.92725.qm@web83306.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hi AMy I very much wish to post this announcement to the WOMPO list of which I am a longtime member. But I can't seem to post to that list at all though I am getting it each day in digest form. Because there is a time element and because I found the workshop as I explain on the WOMPO list taught by fellow WOmpo and wonderful mentor Charlotte Mandel could you do me a very good favor and forward this annoucement for me, or tell me how to post it to the WOMPO list? I can't post anything, even one word saying test. IS there a new posting method I need to know? Many thanks, and while here I will post to the New Poetry List though the workshop is women only, .. I'm SURE the guys on this list will be weeping in their java cups. THanks, very much thanks! Patricia Brody email tomkostro at sprintmail.comGOod Morning WOMPOnies, , Several years ago after finishing my MA(CUNY had no MFA then) in poetry with MARILYN HACKER and others at City College I found a workshop announced on the LIST serve here , given by our fellow Wompo, CHARLOTTE MANDEL. Cautious , eager, cynical, NEEDING a place to write for, and DEADLINES, I joined CHarlotte's wonderful class at the Barnard Women's Center at Barnard College. AFter 3 years during which eventually the class and Charlotte helped me with my various scattered bunches of poems to focus and gather my work towards book completion, CHARLOTTE retired. A colleague and I , not wanting to lose what CHarlotte had begun, "Inherited" the course,which we have now been leading for around 3 years. Please consider joining us, beginning this WEdnesday. YOu can register at Barnard Center --go to BCRW link or call. It is a bargain , it is fun and we get poems going! Best to all, Patricia PS As you know, Charlotte is well and writing and she is a TERRIFIC Manuscript editor! Please look into her The Marriages of Jacob, a novella in verse and her latest ROCK, VEIN, SKY. Seeking Your Voice: A Poetry Workshop This workshop draws a diverse group of women writers and produces an amazing variety of work from neo-formal to experimental to prose combinations. Explore ways to open your voice and bring breath and space to your poems. Make discoveries, take risks. We?ll look at the work of three contemporary poets to stir and stretch your own work. We welcome and have successfully engaged poets of all levels and backgrounds -- from graduate students steeped in literary study; new mothers reaching for their own voices; to physicians just starting to write. With Patricia Brody and Eva Miodownik Oppenheim Dates: Wednesdays: 10/6, 10/20, 11/3, 11/17, 12/1, 12/15 Time: 7:00 to 9:00 P.M Place: .Barnard Center for Research on Women, Barnard College, 3009 Broadway, NY NY 10027 (212-854-2067) Patricia Brody?s collection, American Desire, was selected by Finishing Line Books for the 2009 New Women?s Voices Series. Her new book, Dangerous to Know is due out next winter from Salmon Poetry (Ireland). Brody practices family therapy in NYC and wishes to revive Survival of the Soul: Artists Living with Illness. She has taught American Literature at Boricua College in Harlem. Eva Miodownik Oppenheim?s new book of poems, Through the Loop of Time, is due this fall from Moon Pie Press. Her first collection is Things as They Are. She is also the author of a memoir, The Stork. Her poems have appeared in numerous anthologies and literary journals. An editor and PR writer, she served as a senior administrator at Barnard College for 18 years. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tomkostro at sprintmail.com Mon Oct 4 13:04:15 2010 From: tomkostro at sprintmail.com (Tom Kostro) Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2010 13:04:15 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] poetry workshoop announcement from In-Reply-To: References: <548711.92725.qm@web83306.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <5E2518F8-7A52-4B2C-A729-352505D07846@sprintmail.com> oh a workshoop is a hardworking slip on a ship in wave meter. On Oct 4, 2010, at 12:56 PM, Tom Kostro wrote: > > Hi AMy > > I very much wish to post this announcement to the WOMPO list of which I am a longtime member. > But I can't seem to post to that list at all though I am getting it each day in digest form. > > Because there is a time element and because I found the workshop as I explain on the WOMPO > list taught by fellow WOmpo and wonderful mentor Charlotte Mandel > could you do me a very good favor and forward this annoucement for me, > or tell me how to post it to the WOMPO list? > > I can't post anything, even one word saying test. > IS there a new posting method I need to know? > > Many thanks, and while here I will post to the New Poetry List > though the workshop is women only, .. > I'm SURE the guys on this list will be weeping in their > java cups. > > THanks, very much thanks! > Patricia Brody > > email tomkostro at sprintmail.comGOod Morning WOMPOnies, > > , > Several years ago after finishing my MA(CUNY had no MFA then) in poetry > with MARILYN HACKER and others at City College I found a workshop > announced on the LIST serve here , given by our fellow Wompo, > CHARLOTTE MANDEL. > Cautious , eager, cynical, NEEDING a place to write for, and > DEADLINES, I joined CHarlotte's wonderful class at the Barnard > Women's Center at Barnard College. AFter 3 years during which > eventually the class and Charlotte helped me with my various > scattered bunches of poems to focus and gather my work towards > book completion, CHARLOTTE retired. > > > A colleague and I , not wanting to lose what CHarlotte had begun, > "Inherited" the course,which we have now been leading for > around 3 years. Please consider joining us, beginning this > WEdnesday. YOu can register at Barnard Center --go to BCRW > link or call. > > It is a bargain , it is fun and we get poems going! > > Best to all, > Patricia > PS As you know, Charlotte is well and writing and she is a TERRIFIC > Manuscript editor! > Please look into her The Marriages of Jacob, a novella in verse > and her latest ROCK, VEIN, SKY. > > Seeking Your Voice: A Poetry Workshop > > > This workshop draws a diverse group of women writers and produces an amazing variety of work from neo-formal to experimental to prose combinations. Explore ways to open your voice and bring breath and space to your poems. Make discoveries, take risks. We?ll look at the work of three contemporary poets to stir and stretch your own work. We welcome and have successfully engaged poets of all levels and backgrounds -- from graduate students steeped in literary study; new mothers reaching for their own voices; to physicians just starting to write. > > > > With Patricia Brody and Eva Miodownik Oppenheim > > Dates: Wednesdays: 10/6, 10/20, 11/3, 11/17, 12/1, 12/15 > > Time: 7:00 to 9:00 P.M > > Place: .Barnard Center for Research on Women, Barnard College, > > 3009 Broadway, NY NY 10027 (212-854-2067) > > > > > > Patricia Brody?s collection, American Desire, was selected by Finishing Line Books for the 2009 New Women?s Voices Series. Her new book, Dangerous to Know is due out next winter from Salmon Poetry (Ireland). Brody practices family therapy in NYC and wishes to revive Survival of the Soul: Artists Living with Illness. She has taught American Literature at Boricua College in Harlem. > > Eva Miodownik Oppenheim?s new book of poems, Through the Loop of Time, is due this fall from Moon Pie Press. Her first collection is Things as They Are. She is also the author of a memoir, The Stork. Her poems have appeared in numerous anthologies and literary journals. An editor and PR writer, she served as a senior administrator at Barnard College for 18 years. > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Mon Oct 4 18:31:02 2010 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Mon, 04 Oct 2010 18:31:02 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] giant penguin Message-ID: <8CD322AF62CC765-1ADC-17E0@webmail-d081.sysops.aol.com> Giant Penguin I know it?s heresy to say but many species won?t be missed. The Giant Penguin, however, must be counted as a loss. The fossil evidence has him standing 5 feet tall, so if he lifted his beak he could tap most people on the shoulder, and I think he would. As one turns around, trying to ignore the fish drool at the side of his mouth, one would naturally snap to attention in mock deference, feeling the urge to salute him in his sprayed-on uniform of feathers tight as scales. The eyes would lock, good animal, always about to topple, spinning at its heels, like a bowling pin, suddenly grown massive in the moment it refuses to fall, leaving a spare in the last frame of perfect game. He would know, instinctively, how sad you are, how much you need something safe at which to laugh. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Mon Oct 4 19:51:27 2010 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Mon, 04 Oct 2010 18:51:27 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] giant penguin In-Reply-To: <8CD322AF62CC765-1ADC-17E0@webmail-d081.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CD322AF62CC765-1ADC-17E0@webmail-d081.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <4CAA687F.3020108@nut-n-but.net> Mainstream but more than okay, James. Great ending! --Bob > Giant Penguin > I know it?s heresy to say > but many species > won?t be missed. > The Giant Penguin, however, > must be counted as a loss. > The fossil evidence has him > standing 5 feet tall, > so if he lifted his beak > he could tap most people > on the shoulder, and I think > he would. As one turns around, > trying to ignore the fish drool > at the side of his mouth, > one would naturally snap > to attention in mock deference, > feeling the urge to salute him > in his sprayed-on uniform > of feathers tight as scales. > The eyes would lock, good > animal, always about to topple, > spinning at its heels, like a bowling pin, > suddenly grown massive > in the moment it refuses to fall, > leaving a spare in the last frame > of perfect game. He would know, > instinctively, how sad you are, > how much you need something > safe at which to laugh. > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From c.a.b.daly at gmail.com Tue Oct 5 11:23:20 2010 From: c.a.b.daly at gmail.com (Catherine Daly) Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2010 08:23:20 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Broadsides Message-ID: Did anyone else get the e-mail from Sen. John Kerry this a.m., apparently abt broadsides? -- All best, Catherine Daly c.a.b.daly at gmail.com From halvard at gmail.com Tue Oct 5 11:28:13 2010 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2010 10:28:13 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] E. V. Griffith? Message-ID: Anyone remember E. V. Griffith (*Hearse*; *Poetry Now*; etc.)? Here's where all his paper stuff languishes: http://www-sul.stanford.edu/depts/hasrg/ablit/amerlit/Griffith.html Hal Serving the tri-state area. Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org *Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ;* *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; * ***Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; * ***G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; * *Transparencies & Projections * -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From junction at earthlink.net Tue Oct 5 11:46:03 2010 From: junction at earthlink.net (Mark Weiss) Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2010 11:46:03 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Broadsides In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: yup. didn't open it. I assumed it was about broadsides in its naval meaning, i.e., cannon shots fired into the side of a ship, and had to do with the upcoming election. At 11:23 AM 10/5/2010, you wrote: >Did anyone else get the e-mail from Sen. John Kerry this a.m., >apparently abt broadsides? > >-- >All best, >Catherine Daly >c.a.b.daly at gmail.com >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry New from Chax Press: Mark Weiss, As Landscape. $16. Order from http://www.chax.org/poets/weiss.htm "What a beautiful set of circumstances! What a lovely concatenation of particulars. Here is the poet alive in every sense of the word, and through every one of his senses. Instead of missing a beat or a part, Weiss? fragments are like Chekhov?s short stories?the more that gets left out, the more they seem to contain One can hear echoes from all the various ancestors...[but] the voice, at its center, its core, is pure Mark Weiss. His use of the fragment is both elegant and bafflingly clear, a pure musical threnody [it] opens a window, not only into a mind, but a person, a personality, this human figure at the emotional center of the poem." M.G. Stephens, in Jacket. http://jacketmagazine.com/40/r-weiss-rb-stephens.shtml -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Tue Oct 5 19:42:53 2010 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2010 19:42:53 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] 'Il Postino' the opera Message-ID: <8CD32FE2A08F649-1514-30DA@webmail-m073.sysops.aol.com> http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704631504575532164048530190.html By HEIDI WALESON Los Angeles The 1994 film "Il Postino" is a gentle, touching story about an inarticulate postman who finds his voice. Daniel Cat?n's operatic version, which is having its world premiere production at Los Angeles Opera, freights the tale with extra baggage. In particular, Mr. Cat?n's rhapsodic, Puccini-e sque music, with its long vocal lines and lush orchestrations, turns this slight source into an old-fashioned melodrama. Mr. Cat?n, who wrote his own Spanish-language libretto, followed the film's basic storyline closely and also drew from the original novel, "Ardiente Paciencia" by Antonio Sk?rmeta. The poet Pablo Neruda, exiled for his political activities from his native Chile, stays on an Italian island inhabited mostly by poor fishermen. Mario, the young postman who brings him his mail, is fascinated by Neruda's largely female correspondence, and thinks that being a poet will make girls like him too. Suddenly smitten by Beatrice, a local beauty, he begs Neruda to write a poem that he can use to woo her \ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Tue Oct 5 19:51:13 2010 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2010 19:51:13 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Waits toasts Ferlinghetti Message-ID: <8CD32FF53AD2113-1514-3281@webmail-m073.sysops.aol.com> http://www.americansongwriter.com/2010/10/tom-waits-channels-lawrence-ferlinghetti/ The Beat goes on in this video, where Waits makes a rare live appearance to toast Lawrence Ferlinghetti, the celebrated poet and owner of City Lights Books in San Francisco. Waits sets Ferlinghetti?s ?Fortune? from A Coney Island of the Mind, to music, and the results are more than worth a few finger snaps and ?Yes, Yes, Man! Go! Go! Yes??s. Check it out. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From semanticsblack at yahoo.com Wed Oct 6 10:15:38 2010 From: semanticsblack at yahoo.com (sheila black) Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2010 07:15:38 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Waits toasts Ferlinghetti In-Reply-To: <8CD32FF53AD2113-1514-3281@webmail-m073.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <238900.8523.qm@web82702.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Thanks for this Tom Waits video channeling Ferlinghetti. It brought back such memories of my love of Ferlinghetti as well as Richard Brautigan during the sixties! Sheila Black ?Sheila Black --- On Tue, 10/5/10, jforjames at aol.com wrote: From: jforjames at aol.com Subject: [New-Poetry] Waits toasts Ferlinghetti To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Date: Tuesday, October 5, 2010, 6:51 PM http://www.americansongwriter.com/2010/10/tom-waits-channels-lawrence-ferlinghetti/ ? The Beat goes on in this video, where Waits makes a rare live appearance to toast Lawrence Ferlinghetti, the celebrated poet and owner of City Lights Books in San Francisco. Waits sets Ferlinghetti?s ?Fortune? from A Coney Island of the Mind, to music, and the results are more than worth a few finger snaps and ?Yes, Yes, Man! Go! Go! Yes??s. Check it out. ? -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sheilafblack at hotmail.com Wed Oct 6 10:37:28 2010 From: sheilafblack at hotmail.com (sheila black) Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2010 14:37:28 +0000 Subject: [New-Poetry] Waits toasts Ferlinghetti In-Reply-To: <238900.8523.qm@web82702.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <8CD32FF53AD2113-1514-3281@webmail-m073.sysops.aol.com>, <238900.8523.qm@web82702.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hi--sheila black-- are you the other Sheila Black, poet on New poetry? I mean the other Sheila--I am Sheila Black, too! And while this is not strictly speaking new poetry concerned, it gave me quite a strange/nice feeling to see your (my) name in my in-box! Cheers! Sheila Black Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2010 07:15:38 -0700 From: semanticsblack at yahoo.com To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Waits toasts Ferlinghetti Thanks for this Tom Waits video channeling Ferlinghetti. It brought back such memories of my love of Ferlinghetti as well as Richard Brautigan during the sixties! Sheila Black Sheila Black --- On Tue, 10/5/10, jforjames at aol.com wrote: From: jforjames at aol.com Subject: [New-Poetry] Waits toasts Ferlinghetti To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Date: Tuesday, October 5, 2010, 6:51 PM http://www.americansongwriter.com/2010/10/tom-waits-channels-lawrence-ferlinghetti/ The Beat goes on in this video, where Waits makes a rare live appearance to toast Lawrence Ferlinghetti, the celebrated poet and owner of City Lights Books in San Francisco. Waits sets Ferlinghetti?s ?Fortune? from A Coney Island of the Mind, to music, and the results are more than worth a few finger snaps and ?Yes, Yes, Man! Go! Go! Yes??s. Check it out. -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Wed Oct 6 12:00:55 2010 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Wed, 06 Oct 2010 11:00:55 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Three Kinds of Poetry Appreciators In-Reply-To: <79c414ffe1354454a58dc345d7db6c4c.squirrel@webmail4.web.com> References: <79c414ffe1354454a58dc345d7db6c4c.squirrel@webmail4.web.com> Message-ID: <4CAC9D37.5080402@nut-n-but.net> As all of you who bother reading my posts are aware, I'm fascinated by the different ways people respond to poetry. I'm also an obsessive explainer and taxonomist--with a full-scale theory of psychology for years under way. So I often try to divide poetry people into groups on the basis of their taste. My latest attempt comes out of some thinking I've been doing about the psychology of the causes and effects of pain and pleasure in general. Applying it to the causes of pain and pleasure from poetry, I've come up with three poetry-lover types: the dionysian the hermesian the apollonian I'm unsure how well they fit either to my theory, or to real life, so would REALLY appreciate feedback, even just denigration or praise. Here's how I see the three (who are new to me, so I'm not likely to get them too right, yet, but should get them right enough for discussion): The apollonian has a lot in common, I hope, with Nietzsche's version of him. He is primarily interested in sunshine-bright clarity, and logic--both internal consistency and obedience to the known laws of nature. According to my theory, he is wired to recognize contradictions, with pain, and harmoniousness, or the avoidance of contradictions. Unity is thus important to him. Subject matter is relatively unimportant to him, nor is technique. In truth, he is close to insensitive to the poetry of poetry, the kind who, when extreme, sees poetry as having "real values" of much greater consequence than the beauty of what it says and does, like whatever political beliefs the apollonian has. It's pretty much sole function is to teach, not to entertain. The dionysian is based on Nietzsche's idea of him as the opposite of the apollonian. He is instinct-based so far as poetry appreciation goes. This means that what is most important of him in poetry is that which he instinctively likes--e.g., a smiling human face, archetypal undertakings like the quest for a golden fleece of some sort, love between a man and woman, a kitten more than a few days old. Okay, what we instinctively get pleasure from varies from person to person, and hasn't except in a few cases, been firmly established by conventional science, but I think most people would agree there are stimuli we automatically find pleasure-giving, or painful. A dionysian will therefore be more concerned with a poem's subject matter than anything else, though not necessarily significantly concerned with it. He will be much less concerned with technique and innovation. Frost's poetry will delight him. The mainstream will be his favorite, and perhaps only, poetry precinct. The hermesian's patron deity, Hermes, is the god of invention, among other things. I see him as result-oriented. So a hermesian is significantly less concerned with what a poem is about than what it does, preferably innovatively. According to my theory, he is sensitive to the ratio of a poem's familiar aspects to its unfamiliar ones. Too high a ratio repels him, as does too low a one. Not too high or low a ratio will neither repel or give him pleasure--unless it is just right, whereupon it will elate him. This, I claim, is true of everyone, but it dominates a hermesian, and unimportant to average apollonians and dionysians. It is hermesians who will echo Pound's command to poets about making it new. Of course, the best poetry people will not be limited to one kind of poetry appreciation but reasonably strong in two or all three. Each of them will be strongest in one, I believe, so qualifies for one of my groups--but as a supra-apollonian, supra-dionysian or supra-hermesian. I suspect apollonians are rare, and have a strongly dionysian bias. Many dionysians and hermesians are hostile to each other. Knott versus Silliman leaps to mind. Needless to say, I'm a hermesian, but not an anti-dionysian (by gum). I'm also staunchly apollonian. --Bob From semanticsblack at yahoo.com Wed Oct 6 11:44:39 2010 From: semanticsblack at yahoo.com (sheila black) Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2010 08:44:39 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Waits toasts Ferlinghetti In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <195936.9566.qm@web82708.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Yes Ma'am! I am the other Sheila Black, poet, professor/teacher, just like you...I am telling you...It is just like having a doppelganger. And yes I like seeing your/my name in print as well. I meant to look you up at the AWP conference in Denver because I thought I saw you on one of the panels. But time and wanting to go everywhere go in the way. ? Let's keep in touch? Sheila Black? ?Sheila Black --- On Wed, 10/6/10, sheila black wrote: From: sheila black Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Waits toasts Ferlinghetti To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Date: Wednesday, October 6, 2010, 9:37 AM Hi--sheila black-- ? are you the other Sheila Black, poet on New poetry? ? I mean the other Sheila--I am Sheila Black, too!? And while this is not strictly speaking new poetry concerned, it gave me quite a strange/nice feeling to see your (my) name in my in-box!? ? Cheers! ? Sheila Black Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2010 07:15:38 -0700 From: semanticsblack at yahoo.com To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Waits toasts Ferlinghetti Thanks for this Tom Waits video channeling Ferlinghetti. It brought back such memories of my love of Ferlinghetti as well as Richard Brautigan during the sixties! Sheila Black ?Sheila Black --- On Tue, 10/5/10, jforjames at aol.com wrote: From: jforjames at aol.com Subject: [New-Poetry] Waits toasts Ferlinghetti To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Date: Tuesday, October 5, 2010, 6:51 PM http://www.americansongwriter.com/2010/10/tom-waits-channels-lawrence-ferlinghetti/ ? The Beat goes on in this video, where Waits makes a rare live appearance to toast Lawrence Ferlinghetti, the celebrated poet and owner of City Lights Books in San Francisco. Waits sets Ferlinghetti?s ?Fortune? from A Coney Island of the Mind, to music, and the results are more than worth a few finger snaps and ?Yes, Yes, Man! Go! Go! Yes??s. Check it out. ? -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Wed Oct 6 13:49:04 2010 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Wed, 06 Oct 2010 13:49:04 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] WorldPo: Israel's Natan Zach speak out on Gaza Message-ID: <8CD3395E6EC523D-960-CE7@webmail-d081.sysops.aol.com> http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3964398,00.html Poet Zach: Israel apartheid state Leading Israeli poet says he wishes to join Gaza flotilla; 'if I were better swimmer, I would swim to Gaza,' he says The Knesset is on the offensive as one of Israel's leading poets has announced his intent to join the next flotilla to Gaza. Natan Zach condemned the government and said he was willing to join activists attempting to reach Gaza via flotillas. He added that while visiting Germany, he witnessed a huge rally where Israel was labeled as an "apartheid state." "I do not wish to live in such state," he said. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Wed Oct 6 14:15:52 2010 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Wed, 06 Oct 2010 14:15:52 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Three Kinds of Poetry Appreciators In-Reply-To: <4CAC9D37.5080402@nut-n-but.net> References: <79c414ffe1354454a58dc345d7db6c4c.squirrel@webmail4.web.com> <4CAC9D37.5080402@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <8CD33999B54968A-8B0-20A@webmail-d081.sysops.aol.com> Bob, I'll have to read this more carefully later before I comment, but the Dionysian v. Apollonian modes poetry was the subject of some lectures that Robert Graves delivered at Oxford. Oxford Addresses on Poetry (1962) It's been a few years since I read the book. But I thought the essays were quite good. Graves was discussing the poetry more than the appreciation of it. (Not that they're unrelated, of course.) He missed the Hermesian mode. The Romantic v. Classical divide is roughly equivalent to the Dionysian v. Apollonian. Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: Bob Grumman To: NewPoetry List Sent: Wed, Oct 6, 2010 12:00 pm Subject: [New-Poetry] Three Kinds of Poetry Appreciators As all of you who bother reading my posts are aware, I'm fascinated by the different ways people respond to poetry. I'm also an obsessive explainer and taxonomist--with a full-scale theory of psychology for years under way. So I often try to divide poetry people into groups on the basis of their taste. My latest attempt comes out of some thinking I've been doing about the psychology of the causes and effects of pain and pleasure in general. Applying it to the causes of pain and pleasure from poetry, I've come up with three poetry-lover types: the dionysian the hermesian the apollonian I'm unsure how well they fit either to my theory, or to real life, so would REALLY appreciate feedback, even just denigration or praise. Here's how I see the three (who are new to me, so I'm not likely to get them too right, yet, but should get them right enough for discussion): The apollonian has a lot in common, I hope, with Nietzsche's version of him. He is primarily interested in sunshine-bright clarity, and logic--both internal consistency and obedience to the known laws of nature. According to my theory, he is wired to recognize contradictions, with pain, and harmoniousness, or the avoidance of contradictions. Unity is thus important to him. Subject matter is relatively unimportant to him, nor is technique. In truth, he is close to insensitive to the poetry of poetry, the kind who, when extreme, sees poetry as having "real values" of much greater consequence than the beauty of what it says and does, like whatever political beliefs the apollonian has. It's pretty much sole function is to teach, not to entertain. The dionysian is based on Nietzsche's idea of him as the opposite of the apollonian. He is instinct-based so far as poetry appreciation goes. This means that what is most important of him in poetry is that which he instinctively likes--e.g., a smiling human face, archetypal undertakings like the quest for a golden fleece of some sort, love between a man and woman, a kitten more than a few days old. Okay, what we instinctively get pleasure from varies from person to person, and hasn't except in a few cases, been firmly established by conventional science, but I think most people would agree there are stimuli we automatically find pleasure-giving, or painful. A dionysian will therefore be more concerned with a poem's subject matter than anything else, though not necessarily significantly concerned with it. He will be much less concerned with technique and innovation. Frost's poetry will delight him. The mainstream will be his favorite, and perhaps only, poetry precinct. The hermesian's patron deity, Hermes, is the god of invention, among other things. I see him as result-oriented. So a hermesian is significantly less concerned with what a poem is about than what it does, preferably innovatively. According to my theory, he is sensitive to the ratio of a poem's familiar aspects to its unfamiliar ones. Too high a ratio repels him, as does too low a one. Not too high or low a ratio will neither repel or give him pleasure--unless it is just right, whereupon it will elate him. This, I claim, is true of everyone, but it dominates a hermesian, and unimportant to average apollonians and dionysians. It is hermesians who will echo Pound's command to poets about making it new. Of course, the best poetry people will not be limited to one kind of poetry appreciation but reasonably strong in two or all three. Each of them will be strongest in one, I believe, so qualifies for one of my groups--but as a supra-apollonian, supra-dionysian or supra-hermesian. I suspect apollonians are rare, and have a strongly dionysian bias. Many dionysians and hermesians are hostile to each other. Knott versus Silliman leaps to mind. Needless to say, I'm a hermesian, but not an anti-dionysian (by gum). I'm also staunchly apollonian. --Bob _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From david.weinstock at gmail.com Wed Oct 6 14:26:59 2010 From: david.weinstock at gmail.com (David Weinstock) Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2010 14:26:59 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Three Kinds of Poetry Appreciators In-Reply-To: <8CD33999B54968A-8B0-20A@webmail-d081.sysops.aol.com> References: <79c414ffe1354454a58dc345d7db6c4c.squirrel@webmail4.web.com> <4CAC9D37.5080402@nut-n-but.net> <8CD33999B54968A-8B0-20A@webmail-d081.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: Wouldn't the adjectival form of Hermes be Hermetic? On Wed, Oct 6, 2010 at 2:15 PM, wrote: > Bob, I'll have to read this more carefully later before I comment, but the > Dionysian v. Apollonian modes poetry?was the subject of some lectures that > Robert Graves delivered at Oxford. > Oxford Addresses on Poetry (1962) > It's been a few years since I read the book. But I thought the essays were > quite good. > > Graves was discussing the poetry more than the appreciation of it. (Not that > they're > unrelated, of course.) He missed the Hermesian mode. > > The Romantic v. Classical divide is roughly equivalent to the Dionysian v. > Apollonian. > Finnegan > > -----Original Message----- > From: Bob Grumman > To: NewPoetry List > Sent: Wed, Oct 6, 2010 12:00 pm > Subject: [New-Poetry] Three Kinds of Poetry Appreciators > > As all of you who bother reading my posts are aware, I'm fascinated by the > different ways people respond to poetry. I'm also an obsessive explainer and > taxonomist--with a full-scale theory of psychology for years under way. So I > often try to divide poetry people into groups on the basis of their taste. > My latest attempt comes out of some thinking I've been doing about the > psychology of the causes and effects of pain and pleasure in general. > Applying it to the causes of pain and pleasure from poetry, I've come up > with three poetry-lover types: > > the dionysian > > the hermesian > > the apollonian > > I'm unsure how well they fit either to my theory, or to real life, so would > REALLY appreciate feedback, even just denigration or praise. Here's how I > see the three (who are new to me, so I'm not likely to get them too right, > yet, but should get them right enough for discussion): > > The apollonian has a lot in common, I hope, with Nietzsche's version of him. > He is primarily interested in sunshine-bright clarity, and logic--both > internal consistency and obedience to the known laws of nature. According to > my theory, he is wired to recognize contradictions, with pain, and > harmoniousness, or the avoidance of contradictions. Unity is thus important > to him. Subject matter is relatively unimportant to him, nor is technique. > In truth, he is close to insensitive to the poetry of poetry, the kind who, > when extreme, sees poetry as having "real values" of much greater > consequence than the beauty of what it says and does, like whatever > political beliefs the apollonian has. It's pretty much sole function is to > teach, not to entertain. > > The dionysian is based on Nietzsche's idea of him as the opposite of the > apollonian. He is instinct-based so far as poetry appreciation goes. This > means that what is most important of him in poetry is that which he > instinctively likes--e.g., a smiling human face, archetypal undertakings > like the quest for a golden fleece of some sort, love between a man and > woman, a kitten more than a few days old. Okay, what we instinctively get > pleasure from varies from person to person, and hasn't except in a few > cases, been firmly established by conventional science, but I think most > people would agree there are stimuli we automatically find pleasure-giving, > or painful. > > A dionysian will therefore be more concerned with a poem's subject matter > than anything else, though not necessarily significantly concerned with it. > He will be much less concerned with technique and innovation. Frost's poetry > will delight him. The mainstream will be his favorite, and perhaps only, > poetry precinct. > > The hermesian's patron deity, Hermes, is the god of invention, among other > things. I see him as result-oriented. So a hermesian is significantly less > concerned with what a poem is about than what it does, preferably > innovatively. According to my theory, he is sensitive to the ratio of a > poem's familiar aspects to its unfamiliar ones. Too high a ratio repels him, > as does too low a one. Not too high or low a ratio will neither repel or > give him pleasure--unless it is just right, whereupon it will elate him. > This, I claim, is true of everyone, but it dominates a hermesian, and > unimportant to average apollonians and dionysians. > > It is hermesians who will echo Pound's command to poets about making it > new. > > Of course, the best poetry people will not be limited to one kind of poetry > appreciation but reasonably strong in two or all three. Each of them will be > strongest in one, I believe, so qualifies for one of my groups--but as a > supra-apollonian, supra-dionysian or supra-hermesian. > > I suspect apollonians are rare, and have a strongly dionysian bias. Many > dionysians and hermesians are hostile to each other. Knott versus Silliman > leaps to mind. Needless to say, I'm a hermesian, but not an anti-dionysian > (by gum). I'm also staunchly apollonian. > > --Bob > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- David Weinstock / 240 Woodland Park / Middlebury, VT 05753 Phone 802-388-6939 From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Wed Oct 6 15:36:41 2010 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Wed, 06 Oct 2010 14:36:41 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Three Kinds of Poetry Appreciators In-Reply-To: <8CD33999B54968A-8B0-20A@webmail-d081.sysops.aol.com> References: <79c414ffe1354454a58dc345d7db6c4c.squirrel@webmail4.web.com><4CAC9D37.5080402@nut-n-but.net> <8CD33999B54968A-8B0-20A@webmail-d081.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <4CACCFC9.9090506@nut-n-but.net> On 10/6/2010 1:15 PM, jforjames at aol.com wrote: > Bob, I'll have to read this more carefully later before I comment, but > the > Dionysian v. Apollonian modes poetry was the subject of some lectures > that > Robert Graves delivered at Oxford. > *Oxford Addresses on Poetry* (1962) > It's been a few years since I read the book. But I thought the essays > were quite good. > Graves was discussing the poetry more than the appreciation of it. > (Not that they're > unrelated, of course.) He missed the Hermesian mode. > The Romantic v. Classical divide is roughly equivalent to the > Dionysian v. Apollonian. > Finnegan Thanks for the references. I guess I should try to get hold of a copy of the Graves book. I haven't yet thought about how romanticism and classicism would fit my theory. One problem is that it's hard to define them. It'd be great if the parallel held but I don't think it will--I mean dionysian = romantic, apollonian = classical. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Wed Oct 6 15:41:14 2010 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Wed, 06 Oct 2010 14:41:14 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Three Kinds of Poetry Appreciators In-Reply-To: References: <79c414ffe1354454a58dc345d7db6c4c.squirrel@webmail4.web.com><4CAC9D37.5080402@nut-n-but.net><8CD33999B54968A-8B0-20A@ webmail-d081.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <4CACD0DA.7000704@nut-n-but.net> On 10/6/2010 1:26 PM, David Weinstock wrote: > Wouldn't the adjectival form of Hermes be Hermetic? Probably, but I can't use that--it's already taken. Can't use "Athenian," which I really wanted to, either. "Apollonian" and "dionysian" were already taken, too, but don't badly contradict what I'm using them for, so I'm re-using them. --Bob From jforjames at aol.com Wed Oct 6 14:40:46 2010 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Wed, 06 Oct 2010 14:40:46 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Three Kinds of Poetry Appreciators In-Reply-To: References: <79c414ffe1354454a58dc345d7db6c4c.squirrel@webmail4.web.com><4CAC9D37.5080402@nut-n-but.net><8CD33999B54968A-8B0-20A@webmail-d081.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <8CD339D1F88EE97-8B0-953@webmail-d081.sysops.aol.com> http://www.word-origins.com/definition/hermetic.html There are two Hermeses. -----Original Message----- From: David Weinstock To: NewPoetry List Sent: Wed, Oct 6, 2010 2:26 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Three Kinds of Poetry Appreciators Wouldn't the adjectival form of Hermes be Hermetic? On Wed, Oct 6, 2010 at 2:15 PM, wrote: Bob, I'll have to read this more carefully later before I comment, but the Dionysian v. Apollonian modes poetry was the subject of some lectures that Robert Graves delivered at Oxford. Oxford Addresses on Poetry (1962) It's been a few years since I read the book. But I thought the essays were quite good. Graves was discussing the poetry more than the appreciation of it. (Not that they're unrelated, of course.) He missed the Hermesian mode. The Romantic v. Classical divide is roughly equivalent to the Dionysian v. Apollonian. Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: Bob Grumman To: NewPoetry List Sent: Wed, Oct 6, 2010 12:00 pm Subject: [New-Poetry] Three Kinds of Poetry Appreciators As all of you who bother reading my posts are aware, I'm fascinated by the different ways people respond to poetry. I'm also an obsessive explainer and taxonomist--with a full-scale theory of psychology for years under way. So I often try to divide poetry people into groups on the basis of their taste. My latest attempt comes out of some thinking I've been doing about the psychology of the causes and effects of pain and pleasure in general. Applying it to the causes of pain and pleasure from poetry, I've come up with three poetry-lover types: the dionysian the hermesian the apollonian I'm unsure how well they fit either to my theory, or to real life, so would REALLY appreciate feedback, even just denigration or praise. Here's how I see the three (who are new to me, so I'm not likely to get them too right, yet, but should get them right enough for discussion): The apollonian has a lot in common, I hope, with Nietzsche's version of him. He is primarily interested in sunshine-bright clarity, and logic--both internal consistency and obedience to the known laws of nature. According to my theory, he is wired to recognize contradictions, with pain, and harmoniousness, or the avoidance of contradictions. Unity is thus important to him. Subject matter is relatively unimportant to him, nor is technique. In truth, he is close to insensitive to the poetry of poetry, the kind who, when extreme, sees poetry as having "real values" of much greater consequence than the beauty of what it says and does, like whatever political beliefs the apollonian has. It's pretty much sole function is to teach, not to entertain. The dionysian is based on Nietzsche's idea of him as the opposite of the apollonian. He is instinct-based so far as poetry appreciation goes. This means that what is most important of him in poetry is that which he instinctively likes--e.g., a smiling human face, archetypal undertakings like the quest for a golden fleece of some sort, love between a man and woman, a kitten more than a few days old. Okay, what we instinctively get pleasure from varies from person to person, and hasn't except in a few cases, been firmly established by conventional science, but I think most people would agree there are stimuli we automatically find pleasure-giving, or painful. A dionysian will therefore be more concerned with a poem's subject matter than anything else, though not necessarily significantly concerned with it. He will be much less concerned with technique and innovation. Frost's poetry will delight him. The mainstream will be his favorite, and perhaps only, poetry precinct. The hermesian's patron deity, Hermes, is the god of invention, among other things. I see him as result-oriented. So a hermesian is significantly less concerned with what a poem is about than what it does, preferably innovatively. According to my theory, he is sensitive to the ratio of a poem's familiar aspects to its unfamiliar ones. Too high a ratio repels him, as does too low a one. Not too high or low a ratio will neither repel or give him pleasure--unless it is just right, whereupon it will elate him. This, I claim, is true of everyone, but it dominates a hermesian, and unimportant to average apollonians and dionysians. It is hermesians who will echo Pound's command to poets about making it new. Of course, the best poetry people will not be limited to one kind of poetry appreciation but reasonably strong in two or all three. Each of them will be strongest in one, I believe, so qualifies for one of my groups--but as a supra-apollonian, supra-dionysian or supra-hermesian. I suspect apollonians are rare, and have a strongly dionysian bias. Many dionysians and hermesians are hostile to each other. Knott versus Silliman leaps to mind. Needless to say, I'm a hermesian, but not an anti-dionysian (by gum). I'm also staunchly apollonian. --Bob _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -- avid Weinstock / 240 Woodland Park / Middlebury, VT 05753 hone 802-388-6939 ______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cvoisine at nmsu.edu Wed Oct 6 14:42:07 2010 From: cvoisine at nmsu.edu (Connie Voisine) Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2010 12:42:07 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Three Kinds of Poetry Appreciators In-Reply-To: <4CACCFC9.9090506@nut-n-but.net> References: <79c414ffe1354454a58dc345d7db6c4c.squirrel@webmail4.web.com> <4CAC9D37.5080402@nut-n-but.net> <8CD33999B54968A-8B0-20A@webmail-d081.sysops.aol.com> <4CACCFC9.9090506@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: in one of roland barthes' books he talks about the different kinds of readers along these lines too--more along the lines of eating/consuming/gorging etc. c On Wed, Oct 6, 2010 at 1:36 PM, Bob Grumman wrote: > On 10/6/2010 1:15 PM, jforjames at aol.com wrote: > > Bob, I'll have to read this more carefully later before I comment, but the > Dionysian v. Apollonian modes poetry?was the subject of some lectures that > Robert Graves delivered at Oxford. > Oxford Addresses on Poetry (1962) > It's been a few years since I read the book. But I thought the essays were > quite good. > > Graves was discussing the poetry more than the appreciation of it. (Not that > they're > unrelated, of course.) He missed the Hermesian mode. > > The Romantic v. Classical divide is roughly equivalent to the Dionysian v. > Apollonian. > Finnegan > > Thanks for the references.? I guess I should try to get hold of a copy of > the Graves book.? I haven't yet thought about how romanticism and classicism > would fit my theory.? One problem is that it's hard to define them.? It'd be > great if the parallel held but I don't think it will--I mean dionysian = > romantic, apollonian = classical. > > --Bob > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Connie Voisine Associate Professor of English New Mexico State University cvoisine at nmsu.edu 575-646-2027 From sheilafblack at hotmail.com Wed Oct 6 15:05:30 2010 From: sheilafblack at hotmail.com (sheila black) Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2010 19:05:30 +0000 Subject: [New-Poetry] Three Kinds of Poetry Appreciators In-Reply-To: <8CD33999B54968A-8B0-20A@webmail-d081.sysops.aol.com> References: <79c414ffe1354454a58dc345d7db6c4c.squirrel@webmail4.web.com>, <4CAC9D37.5080402@nut-n-but.net>, <8CD33999B54968A-8B0-20A@webmail-d081.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: I want to give a plug for a hard book--but one that does a great job of tracing currents or intersections of philosophy (Neitzche, Kant, etc.) in modern poetry that touch on some of this taxonomy--particularly in regards to Neitzche's Appolonian/Dionysian division. The book is The Extravagant by Robert Baker, Notre Dame--I think it's 2008; He was my literature professor at Montana and really the rare and brillina critic of poetry...the book is very smart about how it looks at the influence of various strands in philosophy on modern poetry. One thing it does (which i think your Dionysian classification could do perhaps a bit more forcefully) is consider the question of pleasure in modern poetry--I guess I mention this because of your three classifications the Dionysian feels the most generally articulated/least interrogated since I think, speaking generally, the question of instinct and/or pleasure is one that becomes increasingly fraught in modernity-- or, to put it more simply, most people DON'T feel much simple pleasure in say a smiley face or a kitten--or if they do, they are loath to admit it! Sheila To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2010 14:15:52 -0400 From: jforjames at aol.com Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Three Kinds of Poetry Appreciators Bob, I'll have to read this more carefully later before I comment, but the Dionysian v. Apollonian modes poetry was the subject of some lectures that Robert Graves delivered at Oxford. Oxford Addresses on Poetry (1962) It's been a few years since I read the book. But I thought the essays were quite good. Graves was discussing the poetry more than the appreciation of it. (Not that they're unrelated, of course.) He missed the Hermesian mode. The Romantic v. Classical divide is roughly equivalent to the Dionysian v. Apollonian. Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: Bob Grumman To: NewPoetry List Sent: Wed, Oct 6, 2010 12:00 pm Subject: [New-Poetry] Three Kinds of Poetry Appreciators As all of you who bother reading my posts are aware, I'm fascinated by the different ways people respond to poetry. I'm also an obsessive explainer and taxonomist--with a full-scale theory of psychology for years under way. So I often try to divide poetry people into groups on the basis of their taste. My latest attempt comes out of some thinking I've been doing about the psychology of the causes and effects of pain and pleasure in general. Applying it to the causes of pain and pleasure from poetry, I've come up with three poetry-lover types: the dionysian the hermesian the apollonian I'm unsure how well they fit either to my theory, or to real life, so would REALLY appreciate feedback, even just denigration or praise. Here's how I see the three (who are new to me, so I'm not likely to get them too right, yet, but should get them right enough for discussion): The apollonian has a lot in common, I hope, with Nietzsche's version of him. He is primarily interested in sunshine-bright clarity, and logic--both internal consistency and obedience to the known laws of nature. According to my theory, he is wired to recognize contradictions, with pain, and harmoniousness, or the avoidance of contradictions. Unity is thus important to him. Subject matter is relatively unimportant to him, nor is technique. In truth, he is close to insensitive to the poetry of poetry, the kind who, when extreme, sees poetry as having "real values" of much greater consequence than the beauty of what it says and does, like whatever political beliefs the apollonian has. It's pretty much sole function is to teach, not to entertain. The dionysian is based on Nietzsche's idea of him as the opposite of the apollonian. He is instinct-based so far as poetry appreciation goes. This means that what is most important of him in poetry is that which he instinctively likes--e.g., a smiling human face, archetypal undertakings like the quest for a golden fleece of some sort, love between a man and woman, a kitten more than a few days old. Okay, what we instinctively get pleasure from varies from person to person, and hasn't except in a few cases, been firmly established by conventional science, but I think most people would agree there are stimuli we automatically find pleasure-giving, or painful. A dionysian will therefore be more concerned with a poem's subject matter than anything else, though not necessarily significantly concerned with it. He will be much less concerned with technique and innovation. Frost's poetry will delight him. The mainstream will be his favorite, and perhaps only, poetry precinct. The hermesian's patron deity, Hermes, is the god of invention, among other things. I see him as result-oriented. So a hermesian is significantly less concerned with what a poem is about than what it does, preferably innovatively. According to my theory, he is sensitive to the ratio of a poem's familiar aspects to its unfamiliar ones. Too high a ratio repels him, as does too low a one. Not too high or low a ratio will neither repel or give him pleasure--unless it is just right, whereupon it will elate him. This, I claim, is true of everyone, but it dominates a hermesian, and unimportant to average apollonians and dionysians. It is hermesians who will echo Pound's command to poets about making it new. Of course, the best poetry people will not be limited to one kind of poetry appreciation but reasonably strong in two or all three. Each of them will be strongest in one, I believe, so qualifies for one of my groups--but as a supra-apollonian, supra-dionysian or supra-hermesian. I suspect apollonians are rare, and have a strongly dionysian bias. Many dionysians and hermesians are hostile to each other. Knott versus Silliman leaps to mind. Needless to say, I'm a hermesian, but not an anti-dionysian (by gum). I'm also staunchly apollonian. --Bob _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From millb at aol.com Wed Oct 6 15:13:16 2010 From: millb at aol.com (Millicent) Date: Wed, 06 Oct 2010 15:13:16 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] OT: poetry book announcement In-Reply-To: References: <79c414ffe1354454a58dc345d7db6c4c.squirrel@webmail4.web.com>, <4CAC9D37.5080402@nut-n-but.net>, <8CD33999B54968A-8B0-20A@webmail-d081.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <8CD33A1A9F339BA-188C-8CA@Webmail-m116.sysops.aol.com> Greetings, I have a full-length poetry book coming out in December: Injuring Eternity, which takes its title from Thoreau, "as if we could kill time without injuring eternity." If anyone on the list would like to receive a postcard or email announcement, please send me your information. Pasted below is a sample poem. Thank you so much for this opportunity! Millicent Interview Huffington Post http://www.huffingtonpost.com/laura-baudo-sillerman/millicent-borges-accardi_b_606404.html Mourning Doves Have such soulful Eyes, their gray suit Of feathers blurs and sinks Them into the background Like a creature in hiding They hover below the wild Bird feeder set up for finches And harvest the shells, the thistle Seed casings and what drops after The finches and faux robins and phoebes Have feasted. The mourning Doves huddle and nest in the mountains Of seed shells and dirt and make circles With their small bird bodies turning Into the ground, digging a place around Them as if they were under a shrub with only The black drops of ink from their tail feathers Visible. In a group, they lie in wait, their dear gray Eyes gloomy and sullen and innocent and they want What the world desires, to be fed and comfortable And consummated and happy. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Wed Oct 6 15:18:36 2010 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Wed, 06 Oct 2010 15:18:36 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Three Kinds of Poetry Appreciators In-Reply-To: References: <79c414ffe1354454a58dc345d7db6c4c.squirrel@webmail4.web.com>, <4CAC9D37.5080402@nut-n-but.net>, <8CD33999B54968A-8B0-20A@webmail-d081.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <8CD33A2688891DC-8B0-1395@webmail-d081.sysops.aol.com> I got that one...after seeing a reference to it on John Latta's blog. It's nearing the top of my to-be-read pile of books. Maybe I'll promote it a rank or two, after your suggestion. I first thought the title was 'The Extravagant Crossings'... The Extravagant: Crossings Of Modern Poetry And Modern Philosophy Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: sheila black To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Wed, Oct 6, 2010 3:05 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Three Kinds of Poetry Appreciators I want to give a plug for a hard book--but one that does a great job of tracing currents or intersections of philosophy (Neitzche, Kant, etc.) in modern poetry that touch on some of this taxonomy--particularly in regards to Neitzche's Appolonian/Dionysian division. The book is The Extravagant by Robert Baker, Notre Dame--I think it's 2008; He was my literature professor at Montana and really the rare and brillina critic of poetry...the book is very smart about how it looks at the influence of various strands in philosophy on modern poetry. One thing it does (which i think your Dionysian classification could do perhaps a bit more forcefully) is consider the question of pleasure in modern poetry--I guess I mention this because of your three classifications the Dionysian feels the most generally articulated/least interrogated since I think, speaking generally, the question of instinct and/or pleasure is one that becomes increasingly fraught in modernity-- or, to put it more simply, most people DON'T feel much simple pleasure in say a smiley face or a kitten--or if they do, they are loath to admit it! Sheila To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2010 14:15:52 -0400 From: jforjames at aol.com Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Three Kinds of Poetry Appreciators Bob, I'll have to read this more carefully later before I comment, but the Dionysian v. Apollonian modes poetry was the subject of some lectures that Robert Graves delivered at Oxford. Oxford Addresses on Poetry (1962) It's been a few years since I read the book. But I thought the essays were quite good. Graves was discussing the poetry more than the appreciation of it. (Not that they're unrelated, of course.) He missed the Hermesian mode. The Romantic v. Classical divide is roughly equivalent to the Dionysian v. Apollonian. Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: Bob Grumman To: NewPoetry List Sent: Wed, Oct 6, 2010 12:00 pm Subject: [New-Poetry] Three Kinds of Poetry Appreciators As all of you who bother reading my posts are aware, I'm fascinated by the different ways people respond to poetry. I'm also an obsessive explainer and taxonomist--with a full-scale theory of psychology for years under way. So I often try to divide poetry people into groups on the basis of their taste. My latest attempt comes out of some thinking I've been doing about the psychology of the causes and effects of pain and pleasure in general. Applying it to the causes of pain and pleasure from poetry, I've come up with three poetry-lover types: the dionysian the hermesian the apollonian I'm unsure how well they fit either to my theory, or to real life, so would REALLY appreciate feedback, even just denigration or praise. Here's how I see the three (who are new to me, so I'm not likely to get them too right, yet, but should get them right enough for discussion): The apollonian has a lot in common, I hope, with Nietzsche's version of him. He is primarily interested in sunshine-bright clarity, and logic--both internal consistency and obedience to the known laws of nature. According to my theory, he is wired to recognize contradictions, with pain, and harmoniousness, or the avoidance of contradictions. Unity is thus important to him. Subject matter is relatively unimportant to him, nor is technique. In truth, he is close to insensitive to the poetry of poetry, the kind who, when extreme, sees poetry as having "real values" of much greater consequence than the beauty of what it says and does, like whatever political beliefs the apollonian has. It's pretty much sole function is to teach, not to entertain. The dionysian is based on Nietzsche's idea of him as the opposite of the apollonian. He is instinct-based so far as poetry appreciation goes. This means that what is most important of him in poetry is that which he instinctively likes--e.g., a smiling human face, archetypal undertakings like the quest for a golden fleece of some sort, love between a man and woman, a kitten more than a few days old. Okay, what we instinctively get pleasure from varies from person to person, and hasn't except in a few cases, been firmly established by conventional science, but I think most people would agree there are stimuli we automatically find pleasure-giving, or painful. A dionysian will therefore be more concerned with a poem's subject matter than anything else, though not necessarily significantly concerned with it. He will be much less concerned with technique and innovation. Frost's poetry will delight him. The mainstream will be his favorite, and perhaps only, poetry precinct. The hermesian's patron deity, Hermes, is the god of invention, among other things. I see him as result-oriented. So a hermesian is significantly less concerned with what a poem is about than what it does, preferably innovatively. According to my theory, he is sensitive to the ratio of a poem's familiar aspects to its unfamiliar ones. Too high a ratio repels him, as does too low a one. Not too high or low a ratio will neither repel or give him pleasure--unless it is just right, whereupon it will elate him. This, I claim, is true of everyone, but it dominates a hermesian, and unimportant to average apollonians and dionysians. It is hermesians who will echo Pound's command to poets about making it new. Of course, the best poetry people will not be limited to one kind of poetry appreciation but reasonably strong in two or all three. Each of them will be strongest in one, I believe, so qualifies for one of my groups--but as a supra-apollonian, supra-dionysian or supra-hermesian. I suspect apollonians are rare, and have a strongly dionysian bias. Many dionysians and hermesians are hostile to each other. Knott versus Silliman leaps to mind. Needless to say, I'm a hermesian, but not an anti-dionysian (by gum). I'm also staunchly apollonian. --Bob _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry = _______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sheilafblack at hotmail.com Wed Oct 6 15:41:52 2010 From: sheilafblack at hotmail.com (sheila black) Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2010 19:41:52 +0000 Subject: [New-Poetry] Three Kinds of Poetry Appreciators In-Reply-To: <8CD33A2688891DC-8B0-1395@webmail-d081.sysops.aol.com> References: <79c414ffe1354454a58dc345d7db6c4c.squirrel@webmail4.web.com>, , <4CAC9D37.5080402@nut-n-but.net>, , <8CD33999B54968A-8B0-20A@webmail-d081.sysops.aol.com>, , <8CD33A2688891DC-8B0-1395@webmail-d081.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: Extravagant Crossings would fit! To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2010 15:18:36 -0400 From: jforjames at aol.com Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Three Kinds of Poetry Appreciators I got that one...after seeing a reference to it on John Latta's blog. It's nearing the top of my to-be-read pile of books. Maybe I'll promote it a rank or two, after your suggestion. I first thought the title was 'The Extravagant Crossings'... The Extravagant: Crossings Of Modern Poetry And Modern Philosophy Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: sheila black To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Wed, Oct 6, 2010 3:05 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Three Kinds of Poetry Appreciators I want to give a plug for a hard book--but one that does a great job of tracing currents or intersections of philosophy (Neitzche, Kant, etc.) in modern poetry that touch on some of this taxonomy--particularly in regards to Neitzche's Appolonian/Dionysian division. The book is The Extravagant by Robert Baker, Notre Dame--I think it's 2008; He was my literature professor at Montana and really the rare and brillina critic of poetry...the book is very smart about how it looks at the influence of various strands in philosophy on modern poetry. One thing it does (which i think your Dionysian classification could do perhaps a bit more forcefully) is consider the question of pleasure in modern poetry--I guess I mention this because of your three classifications the Dionysian feels the most generally articulated/least interrogated since I think, speaking generally, the question of instinct and/or pleasure is one that becomes increasingly fraught in modernity-- or, to put it more simply, most people DON'T feel much simple pleasure in say a smiley face or a kitten--or if they do, they are loath to admit it! Sheila To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2010 14:15:52 -0400 From: jforjames at aol.com Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Three Kinds of Poetry Appreciators Bob, I'll have to read this more carefully later before I comment, but the Dionysian v. Apollonian modes poetry was the subject of some lectures that Robert Graves delivered at Oxford. Oxford Addresses on Poetry (1962) It's been a few years since I read the book. But I thought the essays were quite good. Graves was discussing the poetry more than the appreciation of it. (Not that they're unrelated, of course.) He missed the Hermesian mode. The Romantic v. Classical divide is roughly equivalent to the Dionysian v. Apollonian. Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: Bob Grumman To: NewPoetry List Sent: Wed, Oct 6, 2010 12:00 pm Subject: [New-Poetry] Three Kinds of Poetry Appreciators As all of you who bother reading my posts are aware, I'm fascinated by the different ways people respond to poetry. I'm also an obsessive explainer and taxonomist--with a full-scale theory of psychology for years under way. So I often try to divide poetry people into groups on the basis of their taste. My latest attempt comes out of some thinking I've been doing about the psychology of the causes and effects of pain and pleasure in general. Applying it to the causes of pain and pleasure from poetry, I've come up with three poetry-lover types: the dionysian the hermesian the apollonian I'm unsure how well they fit either to my theory, or to real life, so would REALLY appreciate feedback, even just denigration or praise. Here's how I see the three (who are new to me, so I'm not likely to get them too right, yet, but should get them right enough for discussion): The apollonian has a lot in common, I hope, with Nietzsche's version of him. He is primarily interested in sunshine-bright clarity, and logic--both internal consistency and obedience to the known laws of nature. According to my theory, he is wired to recognize contradictions, with pain, and harmoniousness, or the avoidance of contradictions. Unity is thus important to him. Subject matter is relatively unimportant to him, nor is technique. In truth, he is close to insensitive to the poetry of poetry, the kind who, when extreme, sees poetry as having "real values" of much greater consequence than the beauty of what it says and does, like whatever political beliefs the apollonian has. It's pretty much sole function is to teach, not to entertain. The dionysian is based on Nietzsche's idea of him as the opposite of the apollonian. He is instinct-based so far as poetry appreciation goes. This means that what is most important of him in poetry is that which he instinctively likes--e.g., a smiling human face, archetypal undertakings like the quest for a golden fleece of some sort, love between a man and woman, a kitten more than a few days old. Okay, what we instinctively get pleasure from varies from person to person, and hasn't except in a few cases, been firmly established by conventional science, but I think most people would agree there are stimuli we automatically find pleasure-giving, or painful. A dionysian will therefore be more concerned with a poem's subject matter than anything else, though not necessarily significantly concerned with it. He will be much less concerned with technique and innovation. Frost's poetry will delight him. The mainstream will be his favorite, and perhaps only, poetry precinct. The hermesian's patron deity, Hermes, is the god of invention, among other things. I see him as result-oriented. So a hermesian is significantly less concerned with what a poem is about than what it does, preferably innovatively. According to my theory, he is sensitive to the ratio of a poem's familiar aspects to its unfamiliar ones. Too high a ratio repels him, as does too low a one. Not too high or low a ratio will neither repel or give him pleasure--unless it is just right, whereupon it will elate him. This, I claim, is true of everyone, but it dominates a hermesian, and unimportant to average apollonians and dionysians. It is hermesians who will echo Pound's command to poets about making it new. Of course, the best poetry people will not be limited to one kind of poetry appreciation but reasonably strong in two or all three. Each of them will be strongest in one, I believe, so qualifies for one of my groups--but as a supra-apollonian, supra-dionysian or supra-hermesian. I suspect apollonians are rare, and have a strongly dionysian bias. Many dionysians and hermesians are hostile to each other. Knott versus Silliman leaps to mind. Needless to say, I'm a hermesian, but not an anti-dionysian (by gum). I'm also staunchly apollonian. --Bob _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry = _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cervantes.james at gmail.com Wed Oct 6 17:33:40 2010 From: cervantes.james at gmail.com (James Cervantes) Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2010 14:33:40 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fall/Winter 2010 issue of The Salt River Review is online Message-ID: *The Fall/Winter 2010 issue of The Salt River Review is online, with Poetry by* Tad Richards, Laura Jensen, Hillary Hays, Skip Fox, Josepha Gutelius, Liliana Ursu, Lynn Strongin, Millicent Borges Accardi, Keith Moul, Nic Sebastian, Jeannine Savard, Sergio Ortiz, Liz Ahl, Anastasia Hager, Sheila E. Murphy, John Morgan, Marcus Bales, Wendy Carlisle, Paulann Petersen, Ed Harkness, Frances Ruhlen McConnel, Carlos Reyes, Greg Simon, & Tess Gallagher. *Fiction* by Kulpreet Yadav, Lori White, Donna D. Vitucci, Robert Vaughan, Tim Tomlinson, Tessa Smith McGovern, Janis Einfelds, trans. Inara Cedrins, & John Danahy. *Belles Lettres: Wherein prose poems, nonfiction, essays, and other writings are found:* Skip Fox, John Yohe, Laura Jensen, Reamy Jansen, & Greg Simon. And an *Afterword:* Greg Simon, Lynda Schor, James Cervantes. http://www.poetserv.org *This is the Farewell Issue!* * * -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Wed Oct 6 18:53:01 2010 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Wed, 06 Oct 2010 17:53:01 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Three Kinds of Poetry Appreciators In-Reply-To: References: <79c414ffe1354454a58dc345d7db6c4c.squirrel@webmail4.web.com>, <4CAC9D37.5080402@nut-n-but.net>, <8CD33999B54968A-8B0-20A@webmail-d081.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <4CACFDCD.3050500@nut-n-but.net> On 10/6/2010 2:05 PM, sheila black wrote: > I want to give a plug for a hard book--but one that does a great job > of tracing currents or intersections of philosophy (Neitzche, Kant, etc.) > in modern poetry that touch on some of this taxonomy--particularly in > regards to Neitzche's Appolonian/Dionysian division. The book is > > /The Extravagant /by Robert Baker, Notre Dame--I think it's 2008; He > was my literature professor at Montana and really the rare > and brillina critic of poetry...the book is very smart about how it > looks at the influence of various strands in philosophy on modern poetry. Gee, I may do something I've always been too lazy to do: jot down names of books recommended. This one sounds up my alley even if I disagree with it. Thanks. (And it's by another Robert like the Graves book James mentioned.) > One thing it does (which i think your Dionysian classification could > do perhaps a bit more forcefully) is consider > the question of pleasure in modern poetry--I guess I mention this > because of your three classifications the Dionysian feels > the most generally articulated/least interrogated since I think, > speaking generally, the question of instinct and/or pleasure is one > that becomes increasingly > fraught in modernity-- or, to put it more simply, most people DON'T > feel much simple pleasure in say a smiley face > or a kitten--or if they do, they are loath to admit it! > > Sheila I think the pleasure they do often get is because of the artist's skillfully disquised smiley faces. But, yes, I do think--not pleasure, but /fundamental/ pleasure--is what draws suspicion, though only from intellectuals I think. (Hey, I was one of them for a long time--I always responded to the simple stimuli but went through all kinds of gyrations trying to figure out some superior reason for my liking them.) All my three types are after pleasure, it's just that they all have different ideas of what causes it. And some apollonians will call the pleasure they get from an artwork something other than pleasure. The old puritan bias against "mere" pleasure that requires one to consider the pleasure one gets from some novel not pleasure but a satisfying sense of having done one's duty by exposure to something of moral value. I also believe some quite complex stimuli such as I deem the quest is can cause my dionysians pleasure. Or the various things of nature that gave Wordsworth his sense of the inter-relatedness of all things. I haven't worked it out too well yet, but I believe there are many things that give this kind of instinctual pleasure that aren't simple--and many seemingly simply stimuli, like kittens, that are not simple, and certainly not trivial. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Wed Oct 6 17:57:14 2010 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Wed, 06 Oct 2010 17:57:14 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Newark is Dodge city Message-ID: <8CD33B89235AAA3-E24-384E@webmail-d095.sysops.aol.com> http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2010/10/dodge_poetry_festival_to_kick.html Published: Wednesday, October 06, 2010, 8:30 AM Peggy McGlone/The Star-Ledger Jennifer Braun/The Star-Ledger NEWARK ? The country?s largest celebration of poetry comes out of the west Jersey woods at Waterloo Village and onto the gritty streets of Newark this week, bringing more than 50 poets and musicians for four days of readings, conversations and performances. The 13th biennial Dodge Poetry Festival kicks off tomorrow night on the main stage at the New Jersey Performing Arts Center. It will continue ? often at 10 venues simultaneously ? until Sunday afternoon, when four U.S. poets laureate share the stage for a final reading, a celebration of renowned poet Lucille Clifton, who dies in February after being a fixture at previous festivals. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wlantry at gmail.com Wed Oct 6 17:58:51 2010 From: wlantry at gmail.com (Bill Lantry) Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2010 17:58:51 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Three Kinds of Poetry Appreciators In-Reply-To: <4CACFDCD.3050500@nut-n-but.net> References: <79c414ffe1354454a58dc345d7db6c4c.squirrel@webmail4.web.com> <4CAC9D37.5080402@nut-n-but.net> <8CD33999B54968A-8B0-20A@webmail-d081.sysops.aol.com> <4CACFDCD.3050500@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: Bob, I would seriously consider category names. Everyone who reads those is going to run straight to Nietzsche. I know I did. And then you'll find yourself explaining why they're different. And, as Carville said, "When you're explaining, you're losing." I can think of any number of substitutes off the top of my head, and so can you. But I would keep some variation of hermes, which you can link to Pound: "O Zeus, O Venus, O mercury, patron of thieves..." Thanks, Bill (ps. Why three, and not four? Are you thinking of the old "Teach, Please, and Move to action" trope? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cervantes.james at gmail.com Wed Oct 6 18:19:51 2010 From: cervantes.james at gmail.com (James Cervantes) Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2010 15:19:51 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Three Kinds of Poetry Appreciators In-Reply-To: References: <79c414ffe1354454a58dc345d7db6c4c.squirrel@webmail4.web.com> <4CAC9D37.5080402@nut-n-but.net> <8CD33999B54968A-8B0-20A@webmail-d081.sysops.aol.com> <4CACFDCD.3050500@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: Wearing condoms prevents you from getting Hermes. - Jim On Wed, Oct 6, 2010 at 2:58 PM, Bill Lantry wrote: > Bob, > > I would seriously consider category names. Everyone who reads those is > going to run straight to Nietzsche. I know I did. And then you'll find > yourself explaining why they're different. And, as Carville said, "When > you're explaining, you're losing." > > I can think of any number of substitutes off the top of my head, and so can > you. But I would keep some variation of hermes, which you can link to Pound: > "O Zeus, O Venus, O mercury, patron of thieves..." > > Thanks, > > Bill > (ps. Why three, and not four? Are you thinking of the old "Teach, Please, > and Move to action" trope? > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning http://www.fieralingue.it/documenti/mr_bondo.pdf http://www.poetserv.org/jvc/home/index.html http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamescervantes/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Wed Oct 6 19:24:35 2010 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Wed, 06 Oct 2010 18:24:35 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Three Kinds of Poetry Appreciators In-Reply-To: References: <79c414ffe1354454a58dc345d7db6c4c.squirrel@webmail4.web.com><4CAC9D37.5080402@nut-n-but.net><8CD33999B54968A-8B0-20A@ webmail-d081.sysops.aol.com><4CACFDCD.3050500@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <4CAD0533.3030504@nut-n-but.net> On 10/6/2010 4:58 PM, Bill Lantry wrote: > Bob, > > I would seriously consider category names. Everyone who reads those is > going to run straight to Nietzsche. I know I did. And then you'll find > yourself explaining why they're different. And, as Carville said, > "When you're explaining, you're losing." True. > > I can think of any number of substitutes off the top of my head, and > so can you. I tried but couldn't . But I'll keep trying. > But I would keep some variation of hermes, which you can link to > Pound: "O Zeus, O Venus, O mercury, patron of thieves..." > > Thanks, > > Bill > (ps. Why three, and not four? Are you thinking of the old "Teach, > Please, and Move to action" trope? I'm just going by my over-all theory which for a long time I thought indicated only one major way the brain locates an experience somewhere on the continuum from pain through indifference to pleasure. Gradually, I decided there were two major ways it did that, then suddenly found a third. So, it's three because my theory says there should be three, so far. I don't think teach, please and move works with my three--but it /does/ work with my three modes of verbal expression, information, art and propaganda (which I've named informature, literature and advocature). Thanks for taking the time to enter this thread, Bill. all best, Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jschickl at hotmail.com Wed Oct 6 19:17:02 2010 From: jschickl at hotmail.com (Jared Schickling) Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2010 17:17:02 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Three Kinds of Poetry Appreciators In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Interesting, Bob. Hermes is tricky. He's an upstart, a thief and a liar, raised from the cradle of a cave for his eloquence to errand boy. Lewis Hyde is a good source for this. So the story goes, among other things, Apollonian slaughter fundamentally changes with the appearance of its younger half-brother. I spent a year looking into it and would be happy to forward off-list the one extended waste of anyone's time I managed to produce from it. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Wed Oct 6 21:10:30 2010 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Wed, 06 Oct 2010 20:10:30 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Three Kinds of Poetry Appreciators In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4CAD1E06.6040707@nut-n-but.net> On 10/6/2010 6:17 PM, Jared Schickling wrote: > Interesting, Bob. Hermes is tricky. He's an upstart, a thief and a > liar, raised from the cradle of a cave for his eloquence to errand > boy. Lewis Hyde is a good source for this. So the story goes, among > other things, Apollonian slaughter fundamentally changes with the > appearance of its younger half-brother. I spent a year looking into > it and would be happy to forward off-list the one extended waste of > anyone's time I managed to produce from it. Sure, send it my way, Jared. I'm sure Hermes is many varied things to many varied people but I'd be interested in your take. I'm not looking for my hermesians to be too closely like Hermes, but just enough like him to suggest their nature. And my idea of the hermesian is still pretty tentative, so your waste of time may give me helpful hints. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Wed Oct 6 20:22:34 2010 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Wed, 06 Oct 2010 20:22:34 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Hermes In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8CD33CCDFAAAAC1-B90-3DD0@webmail-m068.sysops.aol.com> But far off, darkly before the bright exit, stood someone or other, whose features were unrecognisable. Who stood and saw how on the strip of path between meadows, with mournful look, the god of messages turned, silently, to follow the figure already walking back by that same path, her steps confined by the long grave-cloths, uncertain, gentle, and without impatience. Ranier Maria Rilke Orpheus. Eurydice. Hermes. (Tr. Tony Kline) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Wed Oct 6 21:16:35 2010 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Wed, 06 Oct 2010 21:16:35 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Hughes and Plath Message-ID: <8CD33D46B437869-70C-58E@webmail-m068.sysops.aol.com> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-11485717 Ted Hughes poem on Sylvia Plath's death published [Melvyn Bragg reads from the beginning and end of Last Letter] A poem in which Ted Hughes describes the night his first wife Sylvia Plath took her own life in 1963 has been published for the first time. Last Letter has been printed in New Statesman magazine, whose guest editor Melvyn Bragg was directed to the piece by the poet's second wife, Carol. It fits into Hughes' Birthday Letters series, described by Lord Bragg as the late Laureate's "greatest achievement". The poem begins: "What happened that night? Your final night." -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Thu Oct 7 08:32:35 2010 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2010 07:32:35 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Three Kinds of Poetry Appreciators In-Reply-To: References: <79c414ffe1354454a58dc345d7db6c4c.squirrel@webmail4.web.com><4CAC9D37.5080402@nut-n-but.net><8CD33999B54968A-8B0-20A@ webmail-d081.sysops.aol.com><4CACFDCD.3050500@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <4CADBDE3.8000004@nut-n-but.net> On 10/6/2010 4:58 PM, Bill Lantry wrote: > Bob, > > I would seriously consider category names. Everyone who reads those is > going to run straight to Nietzsche. I know I did. And then you'll find > yourself explaining why they're different. And, as Carville said, > "When you're explaining, you're losing." Okay, Bill, you're to blame for this: not apollonian, dionysian and hermesian but verosolyst, instinctilyst and expressilyst. These will need explanation, too--I think any names will. I don't think that will be a problem because they will be the subject I'm writing about, the subject to be explained. The explanation will include how they evaluate poetry. The verosolyst evaluates it primarily on the basis of its truth, hence the "vero" (which is also from a term of mine, "verosophy," or true wisdom, or the rational seeking of significant truths about material reality, or a general term for philosophy, science, history, literary criticism, economics . . .). The verosolyst is particularly concerned with what contradictions, if any, an artwork contains. The instinctilyst evaluates an artwork primarily on the basis of the instinctive pleasure it affords by means of its attention to stimuli normal human beings are automatically attracted to like a 3-month-year-old happy baby. I claim, by the way, that certain things will /always/ give pleasure--BUT that pleasure may be negated by something else in the artwork a pleasure-giving thing is in, including the over-familiarity of the latter's presentation. The expressilyst is primarily concerned with how a poem presents its content. rather than with that content. So we have the old what versus how again, this time as instinctilystic appreciation versus expressilystic appreciation. Somebody tell me how really really smart I am, please! (He says, typing "samrt," but--hey--quickly correcting it.) --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Thu Oct 7 09:40:35 2010 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2010 09:40:35 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Nobel in Lit goes to Mario Vargas Llosa Message-ID: <8CD343C5B074613-E60-B5D9@webmail-m063.sysops.aol.com> http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/08/books/08nobel.html The Peruvian writer Mario Vargas Llosa, whose deeply political work vividly examines the perils of power and corruption in Latin America, won the 2010 Nobel Prize in Literature on Thursday. Sara Krulwich/The New York Times Mario Vargas Llosa (October 12, 2006) Announcing the award in Stockholm, the Swedish Academy praised Mr. Vargas Llosa ?for his cartography of the structures of power and his trenchant images of the individual?s resistance, revolt and defeat.? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Thu Oct 7 10:29:01 2010 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2010 10:29:01 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] poetry is not a project Message-ID: <8CD34431EA11A45-E60-C464@webmail-m063.sysops.aol.com> Review of Dorothea Lasky's 'Poetry Is Not A Project'... http://coldfrontmag.com/reviews/poetry-is-not-a-project The argument for ?real poetry? ultimately falls flat as well because Lasky insists on the attention of the reader?and poetry, as James Longenbach reminds us, cannot be judged by the number of readers. It also undermines her book. If, as Lasky assures us, ?Real poetry is a party,? she bears the burden of demonstrating why the essay or the project is not a party. In her anecdote about the art museum project, she has perhaps turned up at the wrong party, but everyone else seems to be enjoying themselves. In her anecdote, she alone seems to be concerned that the poems are bad. Why can?t a project be a party? Why can?t talking about a project be a party? If the joy in poetry is the pleasure of the reader, why deny that pleasure to the audience for an essay? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Thu Oct 7 11:03:57 2010 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2010 11:03:57 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] More apollonian & dionysian musings... Message-ID: <8CD3448000679C4-E60-CD77@webmail-m063.sysops.aol.com> on Robert Archambeau's blog... http://samizdatblog.blogspot.com/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From amyhappens at yahoo.com Thu Oct 7 12:33:43 2010 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king) Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2010 09:33:43 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Fw: 12 Abandoned Poems Message-ID: <291815.40662.qm@web83308.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> >From: Barry Schwabsky > >I would like to let you know of my new publication, 12 Abandoned Poems, from >Kilmog Press in New Zealand: > >http://kilmogpress.blogspot.com/2010/10/barry-schwabsky-12-abandoned-poems.html > > >Barry Schwabsky, 12 Abandoned Poems, Kilmog Press, 2010, hardback, edition of 55 >copies, NZ$45.00 ISBN: 978-0-9864616-7-5, available at Parsons Bookshop in >Auckland, or direct from publisher ($6 / $10 dom / inter. postage) >kilmogpress at hotmail.com > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at gmail.com Thu Oct 7 12:50:26 2010 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2010 11:50:26 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] poetry is not a project In-Reply-To: <8CD34431EA11A45-E60-C464@webmail-m063.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CD34431EA11A45-E60-C464@webmail-m063.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: Interesting, James. Thanks. Hal Serving the tri-state area. Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org *Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ;* *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; * ***Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; * ***G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; * *Transparencies & Projections * On Thu, Oct 7, 2010 at 9:29 AM, wrote: > Review of Dorothea Lasky's 'Poetry Is Not A Project'... > http://coldfrontmag.com/reviews/poetry-is-not-a-project > > The argument for ?real poetry? ultimately falls flat as well because Lasky > insists on the attention of the reader?and poetry, as James Longenbach > reminds us, cannot be judged by the number of readers. It also undermines > her book. If, as Lasky assures us, ?Real poetry is a party,? she bears the > burden of demonstrating why the essay or the project is *not *a party. In > her anecdote about the art museum project, she has perhaps turned up at the > wrong party, but everyone else seems to be enjoying themselves. In her > anecdote, she alone seems to be concerned that the poems are bad. Why can?t > a project be a party? Why can?t talking about a project be a party? If the > joy in poetry is the pleasure of the reader, why deny that pleasure to the > audience for an essay? > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Thu Oct 7 15:59:42 2010 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2010 15:59:42 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] WorldPo: Australia, David Rowbotham's obit Message-ID: <8CD3471512EAED5-18B8-849@webmail-d033.sysops.aol.com> http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/arts/poets-late-flowering-crowned-a-lifes-work/story-e6frg8n6-1225935637230 Rowbotham's late flowering saw him finally recognised as a significant figure in Australian letters when he received the Patrick White Award in late 2007. It was a long time coming but well deserved. Rowbotham was a gentleman of the old school who didn't indulge young poets but was glad to give friendly advice. In the past few years we considered him a national living treasure on the Brisbane literary scene, even though he was humble about his achievements. I remember getting a phone call from him on the publication of his last volume. He asked if I remembered him. I explained that not only did I remember him but that, along with my fellow poets, we revered him as one of our greatest. He seemed quietly pleased. He remained passionate about poetry until the end. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Thu Oct 7 15:51:18 2010 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2010 15:51:18 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] =?utf-8?q?catching_up_with_Carolyn_Forch=C3=A9?= Message-ID: <8CD347024C0665F-18B8-576@webmail-d033.sysops.aol.com> http://www.wickedlocal.com/truro/fun/entertainment/arts/x83588369/Poet-activist-Carolyn-Forch-returns-to-Provincetown-to-read-and-write But that is pretty much what her life is all about, rushing here and there, trying to maintain a hectic schedule that is never finished at the end of the work day. When so many others might take a moment to sit down to read the paper or enjoy a cup of tea, Forch? is busy brewing new offerings in her mind to please her followers or pondering her social advocacy causes. She is a woman on the go and her travels make a difference. For this teacher-translator-human rights activist and prolific poet, who will be reading from her four volumes and discussing her work Saturday at 8 p.m. at the Fine Arts Work Center in Provincetown, life is a busy treadmill that she maneuvers with precise and colorful words... -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Thu Oct 7 18:22:52 2010 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2010 17:22:52 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] More apollonian & dionysian musings... In-Reply-To: <8CD3448000679C4-E60-CD77@webmail-m063.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CD3448000679C4-E60-CD77@webmail-m063.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <4CAE483C.1030002@nut-n-but.net> More apollonian & dionysian musings at Robert Archambeau's blog... > http://samizdatblog.blogspot.com/ Interesting if a bit long essay, James. I was surprised by how closely his description of apollonian and dionysian were to my conception of them. One big difference is that while my dionysians instinctively enjoy being part of a group, they also instinctively enjoy many things as individuals. Indeed, it seems to me almost everyone spends a portion of his life as an individual and a portion in a group. I think I will stick to my new names, though--in spite of their ungainliness. No sense risking my apollonians and dionysians being confusingly different from Freddy's in some respects. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Thu Oct 7 20:26:06 2010 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2010 20:26:06 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Another newly discovered ted hughes poem Message-ID: <8CD349688782089-1BF8-53B0@webmail-d057.sysops.aol.com> http://www.americanpoetry.biz/2010/10/another-newly-discovered-ted-hughes.html -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Rsgwynn1 at cs.com Thu Oct 7 21:26:28 2010 From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com (Rsgwynn1 at cs.com) Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2010 21:26:28 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Another newly discovered ted hughes poem Message-ID: <5be4c.634eb7a0.39dfcd44@cs.com> Ha! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Thu Oct 7 22:27:48 2010 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2010 22:27:48 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] The virtue of verse Message-ID: <8CD34A788B2E749-1BF8-7BC3@webmail-d057.sysops.aol.com> http://www.timeshighereducation.co.uk/story.asp?storycode=412727 Exploring that Battle of Ideas site, I found this essay by George Watson. A somewhat conservative take on the state of the art, but a lot of good things to say about the value of composition & revision. Also he ends the piece with my all time favorite Rilke quote, so I give him credit for that. Finnegan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Fri Oct 8 03:43:44 2010 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Fri, 08 Oct 2010 02:43:44 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] The virtue of verse In-Reply-To: <8CD34A788B2E749-1BF8-7BC3@webmail-d057.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CD34A788B2E749-1BF8-7BC3@webmail-d057.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <4CAECBB0.6050801@nut-n-but.net> On 10/7/2010 9:27 PM, jforjames at aol.com wrote: > http://www.timeshighereducation.co.uk/story.asp?storycode=412727 > Exploring that Battle of Ideas site, I found this essay by George Watson. > A somewhat conservative take on the state of the art, SOMEwhat conservative, Jim? Yikes, I can't see how it could have been more conservative--or deader, its uninteresting point made a dozen times too often. And it isn't even right. I'm big on revision, myself, but (1) there are excellent poets who don't revise much--for example, John M. Bennett, whom I consider the only contemporary poet I'm sure is major; and (2) everyone born to be a poet will be forced by his gift, which will include a desire to work hard, to do everything he can to compose superior poems, whether it be to spend great amounts of time on each of his or, like Bennett, spend a great amount of time composing poems, each of which in effect revises previous poems. Or so I dogmatically believe. --Bob G. > but a lot of good > things to say about the value of composition & revision. Also he ends > the piece with my all time favorite Rilke quote, so I give him credit > for that. > Finnegan > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From orpheecd at yahoo.com Fri Oct 8 05:38:42 2010 From: orpheecd at yahoo.com (orphee) Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2010 02:38:42 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] WorldPo: Israel's Natan Zach speak out on Gaza In-Reply-To: <8CD3395E6EC523D-960-CE7@webmail-d081.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CD3395E6EC523D-960-CE7@webmail-d081.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <196414.95595.qm@web33302.mail.mud.yahoo.com> the state of israel is a monstrosity in that its behaviour is infinitely repressive to its own citizens and to the citizesn of others it bans noam chomsky and countless others. israel ought to make a flottila get on it and head out to outerspace. ________________________________ From: "jforjames at aol.com" To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Wed, October 6, 2010 1:49:04 PM Subject: [New-Poetry] WorldPo: Israel's Natan Zach speak out on Gaza http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3964398,00.html Poet Zach: Israel apartheid state Leading Israeli poet says he wishes to join Gaza flotilla; 'if I were better swimmer, I would swim to Gaza,' he says The Knesset is on the offensive as one of Israel's leading poets has announced his intent to join the next flotilla to Gaza. Natan Zach condemned the government and said he was willing to join activists attempting to reach Gaza via flotillas. He added that while visiting Germany, he witnessed a huge rally where Israel was labeled as an "apartheid state." "I do not wish to live in such state," he said. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From orpheecd at yahoo.com Fri Oct 8 05:40:54 2010 From: orpheecd at yahoo.com (orphee) Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2010 02:40:54 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] The virtue of verse In-Reply-To: <8CD34A788B2E749-1BF8-7BC3@webmail-d057.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CD34A788B2E749-1BF8-7BC3@webmail-d057.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <287330.33426.qm@web33303.mail.mud.yahoo.com> back from work for a few days I see these postings. virtue of verse I say a little bit of vice for a little bit of verses. but as for conservative ? there are no conservatives in verse, just differences of how they write. ________________________________ From: "jforjames at aol.com" To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Thu, October 7, 2010 10:27:48 PM Subject: [New-Poetry] The virtue of verse http://www.timeshighereducation.co.uk/story.asp?storycode=412727 Exploring that Battle of Ideas site, I found this essay by George Watson. A somewhat conservative take on the state of the art, but a lot of good things to say about the value of composition & revision. Also he ends the piece with my all time favorite Rilke quote, so I give him credit for that. Finnegan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From orpheecd at yahoo.com Fri Oct 8 05:45:28 2010 From: orpheecd at yahoo.com (orphee) Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2010 02:45:28 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Three Kinds of Poetry Appreciators In-Reply-To: <4CADBDE3.8000004@nut-n-but.net> References: <79c414ffe1354454a58dc345d7db6c4c.squirrel@webmail4.web.com><4CAC9D37.5080402@nut-n-but.net><8CD33999B54968A-8B0-20A@ webmail-d081.sysops.aol.com><4CACFDCD.3050500@nut-n-but.net> <4CADBDE3.8000004@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <250844.42338.qm@web33308.mail.mud.yahoo.com> back to labels. all useless friends. its what you do that counts? noN? en tout je quitte ________________________________ From: Bob Grumman To: NewPoetry List Sent: Thu, October 7, 2010 8:32:35 AM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Three Kinds of Poetry Appreciators On 10/6/2010 4:58 PM, Bill Lantry wrote: Bob, > >I would seriously consider category names. Everyone who reads those is >going to run straight to Nietzsche. I know I did. And then you'll find >yourself explaining why they're different. And, as Carville said, "When >you're explaining, you're losing." > Okay, Bill, you're to blame for this: not apollonian, dionysian and hermesian but verosolyst, instinctilyst and expressilyst. These will need explanation, too--I think any names will. I don't think that will be a problem because they will be the subject I'm writing about, the subject to be explained. The explanation will include how they evaluate poetry. The verosolyst evaluates it primarily on the basis of its truth, hence the "vero" (which is also from a term of mine, "verosophy," or true wisdom, or the rational seeking of significant truths about material reality, or a general term for philosophy, science, history, literary criticism, economics . . .). The verosolyst is particularly concerned with what contradictions, if any, an artwork contains. The instinctilyst evaluates an artwork primarily on the basis of the instinctive pleasure it affords by means of its attention to stimuli normal human beings are automatically attracted to like a 3-month-year-old happy baby. I claim, by the way, that certain things will always give pleasure--BUT that pleasure may be negated by something else in the artwork a pleasure-giving thing is in, including the over-familiarity of the latter's presentation. The expressilyst is primarily concerned with how a poem presents its content. rather than with that content. So we have the old what versus how again, this time as instinctilystic appreciation versus expressilystic appreciation. Somebody tell me how really really smart I am, please! (He says, typing "samrt," but--hey--quickly correcting it.) --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Fri Oct 8 07:24:21 2010 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Fri, 08 Oct 2010 06:24:21 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Three Kinds of Poetry Appreciators In-Reply-To: <250844.42338.qm@web33308.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <79c414ffe1354454a58dc345d7db6c4c.squirrel@webmail4.web.com><4CAC9D37.5080402@nut-n-but.net><8CD33999B54968A-8B0-20A@ webmail-d081.sysops.aol.com><4CACFDCD.3050500@nut-n-but.net><4CADBDE3.8000004@nut-n-but.net> <250844.42338.qm@web33308.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4CAEFF65.3020804@nut-n-but.net> On 10/8/2010 4:45 AM, orphee wrote: > back to labels. all useless friends. its what you do that counts? noN? > en tout je quitte All words are labels. But, of course, words are useless. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Fri Oct 8 09:22:08 2010 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Fri, 08 Oct 2010 08:22:08 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Another Attempt at Classifying Varieties of Poetry In-Reply-To: <4CAEFF65.3020804@nut-n-but.net> References: <79c414ffe1354454a58dc345d7db6c4c.squirrel@webmail4.web.com><4CAC9D37.5080402@nut-n-but.net><8CD33999B54968A-8B0-20A@ webmail-d081.sysops.aol.com><4CACFDCD.3050500@nut-n-but.net><4CADBDE3.8000004@nut-n-but.net><250844.42338.qm@web33308.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <4CAEFF65.3020804@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <4CAF1B00.2090906@nut-n-but.net> I'm planning to self-publish a booklet setting forth my taxonomy of poetry. Its lowest taxonomic level will be schools. I have one school I call "social identity poetry" that includes ethnic poetry and feminist poetry. I was wondering, though, if there is a school of feminist poetry? Also if there is more than one such school sufficiently different from one another to separate. I'm still hoping for information about schools I've never heard of. Any tips would be much appreciated. --Bob From robin.hamilton3 at virginmedia.com Fri Oct 8 08:43:45 2010 From: robin.hamilton3 at virginmedia.com (Robin Hamilton) Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2010 13:43:45 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Three Kinds of Poetry Appreciators In-Reply-To: <4CAEFF65.3020804@nut-n-but.net> References: <79c414ffe1354454a58dc345d7db6c4c.squirrel@webmail4.web.com><4CAC9D37.5080402@nut-n-but.net><8CD33999B54968A-8B0-20A@webmail-d081.sysops.aol.com><4CACFDCD.3050500@nut-n-but.net><4CADBDE3.8000004@nut-n-but.net><250844.42338.qm@web33308.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <4CAEFF65.3020804@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <4A475AFA3E7C4E78ACE2B55C1EF6C9DF@OwnerPC> From: Bob Grumman On 10/8/2010 4:45 AM, orphee wrote: back to labels. all useless friends. its what you do that counts? noN? en tout je quitte All words are labels. But, of course, words are useless. Not all of them, Bob -- consider phatic communion. The labeling (or I'd prefer to say in this context, "indexing") component of a "word" (slippery term itself, as we learned from de Saussure) is only one aspect. Denotation vs. connotation. All that crap. Robin -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From robin.hamilton3 at virginmedia.com Fri Oct 8 08:48:10 2010 From: robin.hamilton3 at virginmedia.com (Robin Hamilton) Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2010 13:48:10 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Another Attempt at Classifying Varieties of Poetry In-Reply-To: <4CAF1B00.2090906@nut-n-but.net> References: <79c414ffe1354454a58dc345d7db6c4c.squirrel@webmail4.web.com><4CAC9D37.5080402@nut-n-but.net><8CD33999B54968A-8B0-20A@webmail-d081.sysops.aol.com><4CACFDCD.3050500@nut-n-but.net><4CADBDE3.8000004@nut-n-but.net><250844.42338.qm@web33308.mail.mud.yahoo.com><4CAEFF65.3020804@nut-n-but.net> <4CAF1B00.2090906@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <2E85502628DD4ED7B0B1D1ECBCFA1474@OwnerPC> > I'm still hoping for information about schools I've never heard of. Any > tips would be much appreciated. > > --Bob I do hope you won't omit the Kailyard School -- pretty essential, that one, if somewhat d?mod? today. Robin From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Fri Oct 8 11:17:40 2010 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Fri, 08 Oct 2010 10:17:40 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Three Kinds of Poetry Appreciators In-Reply-To: <4A475AFA3E7C4E78ACE2B55C1EF6C9DF@OwnerPC> References: <79c414ffe1354454a58dc345d7db6c4c.squirrel@webmail4.web.com><4CAC9D37.5080402@nut-n-but.net><8CD33999B54968A-8B0-20A@ webmail-d081.sysops.aol.com><4CACFDCD.3050500@nut-n-but.net><4CADBDE3.8000004@nut-n-but.net><250844.42338.qm@web33308.mail.mud.yahoo.com><4CAEFF65. 3020804@nut-n-but.net> <4A475AFA3E7C4E78ACE2B55C1EF6C9DF@OwnerPC> Message-ID: <4CAF3614.7000802@nut-n-but.net> On 10/8/2010 7:43 AM, Robin Hamilton wrote: > *From:* Bob Grumman > On 10/8/2010 4:45 AM, orphee wrote: >> back to labels. all useless friends. its what you do that counts? noN? >> en tout je quitte > All words are labels. But, of course, words are useless. > Not all of them, Bob -- consider phatic communion. The labeling (or > I'd prefer to say in this context, "indexing") component of a "word" > (slippery term itself, as we learned from de Saussure) is only one > aspect. Denotation vs. connotation. All that crap. I'd need an example of a word that is not a label to go along with what you say, Robin. A phatic word is just a label for whatever emotion it's supposed to convey. That words have connotations don't make them not labels, as far as I can see. It just makes them direct labels for their denotations, and indirect labels for their connotations. Every word represents something, so is a label. --Bob > Robin > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Fri Oct 8 11:18:52 2010 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Fri, 08 Oct 2010 10:18:52 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Another Attempt at Classifying Varieties of Poetry In-Reply-To: <2E85502628DD4ED7B0B1D1ECBCFA1474@OwnerPC> References: <79c414ffe1354454a58dc345d7db6c4c.squirrel@webmail4.web.com><4CAC9D37.5080402@nut-n-but.net><8CD33999B54968A-8B0-20A@ webmail-d081.sysops.aol.com><4CACFDCD.3050500@nut-n-but.net><4CADBDE3.8000004@nut-n-but.net><250844.42338.qm@web33308.mail.mud.yahoo.com><4CAEFF65. 3020804@nut-n-but.net><4CAF1B00.2090906@nut-n-but.net> <2E85502628DD4ED7B0B1D1ECBCFA1474@OwnerPC> Message-ID: <4CAF365C.1040905@nut-n-but.net> On 10/8/2010 7:48 AM, Robin Hamilton wrote: >> I'm still hoping for information about schools I've never heard of. >> Any tips would be much appreciated. >> >> --Bob > > I do hope you won't omit the Kailyard School -- pretty essential, that > one, if somewhat d?mod? today. > > Robin Um, with a description of it, Robin. And preferably contemporary. --Bob From grahamd at ripon.edu Fri Oct 8 11:14:05 2010 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2010 10:14:05 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] On revision In-Reply-To: <4CAECBB0.6050801@nut-n-but.net> References: <8CD34A788B2E749-1BF8-7BC3@webmail-d057.sysops.aol.com> <4CAECBB0.6050801@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <0ED59662-4C5C-4AE6-9D00-BC54581DD3EA@ripon.edu> On Oct 8, 2010, at 2:43 AM, Bob Grumman wrote: > I'm big on revision, myself, but (1) there are excellent poets who don't revise much--for example, John M. Bennett, whom I consider the only contemporary poet I'm sure is major; and (2) everyone born to be a poet will be forced by his gift, which will include a desire to work hard, to do everything he can to compose superior poems, whether it be to spend great amounts of time on each of his or, like Bennett, spend a great amount of time composing poems, each of which in effect revises previous poems. Or so I dogmatically believe. > > --Bob G. ============================ My take on this as a teacher is to propose that there are no excellent poets who don't revise much. But I add the qualifier that there are many kinds of revision, including the sort that John Bennett does. As I often put it to my students, you can either write a poem & do 50 revisions of it; or you can write 50 poems and then pick the best one. You can't just write one poem, refuse to consider improvements, and still assume it's a work of eternal genius. My own practice has been evolving more & more in the direction of the Bennett mode, as a matter of fact. I was always fairly prolific, as far as I can tell in comparing myself to friends who write. But a single poem typically could take 3 years to complete, over many revisions. In the past few years I've gone whole hog the other direction: been writing a new poem daily since 2007. This was a one-year experiment that got out of control, and I'm having so much fun with it I've seen no reason to stop. Sometimes I write two or three. After my first year at it, I counted up my productions and discovered I had over 800 new poems. Unsurprisingly, very few are publishable, the vast majority aren't any good at all, and most never escape my journal. I can't even begin to remember them all. I still revise, of course, when I get one I think is a potential keeper. It never goes out to an editor as a first draft, by any means. But a lot of my revision takes place in those poems that never make it out of the journal. I am intrigued by the kind of fluency, wildness and grace that I see in the best work of poets like Ginsberg, Neruda, and O'Hara. Of course, I often wish that they didn't publish *all* their lesser efforts, but I imagine that the best ones probably could not have arisen from any other method. I don't believe that the Horatian endless reviser can often achieve that particular sort of grace. There are other virtues to the heavy revision mode, of course, and luckily these matters are never either/or. I don't have to give up Elizabeth Bishop to enjoy Frank O'Hara. ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.me.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From c.a.b.daly at gmail.com Fri Oct 8 11:37:38 2010 From: c.a.b.daly at gmail.com (Catherine Daly) Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2010 08:37:38 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] On revision In-Reply-To: <0ED59662-4C5C-4AE6-9D00-BC54581DD3EA@ripon.edu> References: <8CD34A788B2E749-1BF8-7BC3@webmail-d057.sysops.aol.com> <4CAECBB0.6050801@nut-n-but.net> <0ED59662-4C5C-4AE6-9D00-BC54581DD3EA@ripon.edu> Message-ID: I've been reading a lot about Irving Berlin, Cole Porter, et.al.: might be a more instructive model, after all. Fury of writing and rewriting; major rewrites at first performance, which might have an analog in publication, then various versions, re-orchestrations, and the like. Different process for more collaborative things than others. Some work for pay. Definite difference between "trunk" and "book." -- All best, Catherine Daly c.a.b.daly at gmail.com From wlantry at gmail.com Fri Oct 8 12:29:28 2010 From: wlantry at gmail.com (Bill Lantry) Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2010 12:29:28 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Three Kinds of Poetry Appreciators In-Reply-To: <4CAF3614.7000802@nut-n-but.net> References: <79c414ffe1354454a58dc345d7db6c4c.squirrel@webmail4.web.com> <4CAC9D37.5080402@nut-n-but.net> <4CACFDCD.3050500@nut-n-but.net> <4CADBDE3.8000004@nut-n-but.net> <250844.42338.qm@web33308.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <4A475AFA3E7C4E78ACE2B55C1EF6C9DF@OwnerPC> <4CAF3614.7000802@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: >> A phatic word is just a label for whatever emotion it's supposed to convey. Yes, yes, "every word was once a poem, and a summer is an epic song." Fine. And all those 'y's you're using in the new terms are fun, but they seriously reduce the seriousness factor, and they start to sound like ravings. And the neuro-aesthetic stuff? It's interesting, but needs a little boiling down for non-scientists. If you could actually explain the high-level why and how's of aesthetic response, you'd be on to something. Generally speaking, there are only four kinds of poets, (even though most are a mix of at least a couple), so shouldn't there be four kinds of readers? Shouldn't each reader respond differently to works of the namer, the maker, the singer or the lover? Or respond in a mix of ways? But why do they? There is something in the human brain that responds to the golden mean. But that's such a simplistic example. It only concerns two lines. Yes, you add a third, which gives you more complexity. But a fourth would allow your insight to roam over much richer territory... Best, Bill -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From david.weinstock at gmail.com Fri Oct 8 12:29:37 2010 From: david.weinstock at gmail.com (David Weinstock) Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2010 12:29:37 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] On revision In-Reply-To: <0ED59662-4C5C-4AE6-9D00-BC54581DD3EA@ripon.edu> References: <8CD34A788B2E749-1BF8-7BC3@webmail-d057.sysops.aol.com> <4CAECBB0.6050801@nut-n-but.net> <0ED59662-4C5C-4AE6-9D00-BC54581DD3EA@ripon.edu> Message-ID: I have one hard-working student who revises endlessly. He brings in poems he has been working over for many years. He keeps printouts of each revision and clips them together. When he copies the top draft to bring it to workshop, the paper clip is always evident--we tease him that his trademark paper clip. Occasionally I ask to read the stack, to see if his revisions have done him or the poem any good. What I find is that he takes things out, puts them back in, takes them out again. Often the very first draft is superior to the worked-over last draft because it is fresher, truer, and clearer. Much of his subsequent work seems to have the intent (or at least the effect) of smoothing over or hiding strong feelings and regularizing the meter into metronomic iambs. Me, I revise far less than I used to. From halvard at gmail.com Fri Oct 8 13:03:52 2010 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2010 12:03:52 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] On revision In-Reply-To: References: <8CD34A788B2E749-1BF8-7BC3@webmail-d057.sysops.aol.com> <4CAECBB0.6050801@nut-n-but.net> <0ED59662-4C5C-4AE6-9D00-BC54581DD3EA@ripon.edu> Message-ID: On Revision The mute armless writer sits before his computer monitor, revising as he goes, using the eraser end of a pencil he's picked up with his teeth to move text around, to summon up programs to check spelling and grammar, to select and delete. From deep within his machine, he calls up a voice that will read his text back to him, while making no suggestions as to how this or that might be altered, improved, enhanced, conveying no hint of delight or dismay. No trace of irony in her voice, the voice he's named Sheila. He sometimes wonders what she thinks or feels about something he's written, as though she can have thoughts or feelings about anything at all. But Sheila's the consummate reader, the one who comes to his work without fears or hopes, without expectations. When he makes a change, she reads the revised text as though for the first time, with no nodding of the head or raising of an eyebrow. There's no "I like this new version very much, my dear Stanley," no "At last, you're really beginning to come to grips with this." When Stanley is ready to leave the text alone for a while, she (not Sheila the reader, but Sheila the filer) asks him if he'd like to save and file the new version and, if so, what he would like to call it. Sheila suggests *Document4*, but is open to other titles. Stanley decides to call it "On Revision." He's a big fan of Montaigne, dead now since 1592. Sheila files the work away, but as soon as she's done so Stanley has second thoughts about it, has Sheila the filer bring up that file again, and changes its name to "On Revision, vers. 2." Hal Serving the tri-state area. Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org *Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ;* *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; * ***Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; * ***G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; * *Transparencies & Projections * On Fri, Oct 8, 2010 at 11:29 AM, David Weinstock wrote: > I have one hard-working student who revises endlessly. He brings in > poems he has been working over for many years. He keeps printouts of > each revision and clips them together. When he copies the top draft to > bring it to workshop, the paper clip is always evident--we tease him > that his trademark paper clip. > > Occasionally I ask to read the stack, to see if his revisions have > done him or the poem any good. What I find is that he takes things > out, puts them back in, takes them out again. Often the very first > draft is superior to the worked-over last draft because it is fresher, > truer, and clearer. Much of his subsequent work seems to have the > intent (or at least the effect) of smoothing over or hiding strong > feelings and regularizing the meter into metronomic iambs. > > Me, I revise far less than I used to. > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Fri Oct 8 14:57:46 2010 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Fri, 08 Oct 2010 13:57:46 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Three Kinds of Poetry Appreciators In-Reply-To: References: <79c414ffe1354454a58dc345d7db6c4c.squirrel@webmail4.web.com><4CAC9D37.5080402@nut-n-but.net><4CACFDCD.3050500@nut-n-but.net> <4CADBDE3.8000004@nut-n-but.net><250844.42338.qm@web33308.mail.mud.yahoo.com><4A475AFA3E7C4E78ACE2B55C1EF6C9DF@OwnerPC><4CAF36 14.7000802@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <4CAF69AA.2080400@nut-n-but.net> On 10/8/2010 11:29 AM, Bill Lantry wrote: > >> A phatic word is just a label for whatever emotion it's supposed to > convey. > > Yes, yes, "every word was once a poem, and a summer is an epic song." > Fine. And all those 'y's you're using in the new terms are fun, but > they seriously reduce the seriousness factor, Hard not to. > and they start to sound like ravings. Hard not to. > and they start to sound like ravings. Right. It's unfamiliar, so will seem like ravings. Not that most things that sound like ravings aren't ravings. Just gotta do the best I can. > And the neuro-aesthetic stuff? It's interesting, but needs a little > boiling down for non-scientists. That's what I've been trying to do for years. It's hard. > If you could actually explain the high-level why and how's of > aesthetic response, you'd be on to something. > > Generally speaking, there are only four kinds of poets, (even though > most are a mix of at least a couple), so shouldn't there be four kinds > of readers? Shouldn't each reader respond differently to works of the > namer, the maker, the singer or the lover? Or respond in a mix of > ways? But why do they? There is something in the human brain that > responds to the golden mean. But that's such a simplistic example. It > only concerns two lines. Yes, you add a third, which gives you more > complexity. But a fourth would allow your insight to roam over much > richer territory. Well, I only (so far) am aware of the three modes of appreciation. They're more than enough. Actually, the one I originally called Hermesian could take care of all aesthetic responses. Consider how rich the experience covered just by rods in the eye's being on or off. --Bob > > Best, > > Bill > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Fri Oct 8 16:04:52 2010 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Fri, 08 Oct 2010 15:04:52 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Three Kinds of Poetry Appreciators In-Reply-To: References: <79c414ffe1354454a58dc345d7db6c4c.squirrel@webmail4.web.com><4CAC9D37.5080402@nut-n-but.net><4CACFDCD.3050500@nut-n-but.net> <4CADBDE3.8000004@nut-n-but.net><250844.42338.qm@web33308.mail.mud.yahoo.com><4A475AFA3E7C4E78ACE2B55C1EF6C9DF@OwnerPC><4CAF36 14.7000802@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <4CAF7964.6050208@nut-n-but.net> On 10/8/2010 11:29 AM, Bill Lantry wrote: > >> A phatic word is just a label for whatever emotion it's supposed to > convey. > > Yes, yes, "every word was once a poem, and a summer is an epic song." > Fine. And all those 'y's you're using in the new terms are fun, but > they seriously reduce the seriousness factor, and they start to sound > like ravings. And the neuro-aesthetic stuff? It's interesting, but > needs a little boiling down for non-scientists. If you could actually > explain the high-level why and how's of aesthetic response, you'd be > on to something. Okay, now I'm going simple, down to three kinds of appreciation of an artwork: philosophical, aesthetic and instinctive. It's still what the apollonian, hermesian and dionysian kinds were. What I don't like about it is that it means a person will appreciate an artwork in two ways not aesthetic, which doesn't seem right, and it will make many upset to be described as having an unaesthetic appreciation of art. --Bob From sheilafblack at hotmail.com Fri Oct 8 15:36:52 2010 From: sheilafblack at hotmail.com (sheila black) Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2010 19:36:52 +0000 Subject: [New-Poetry] On revision In-Reply-To: <0ED59662-4C5C-4AE6-9D00-BC54581DD3EA@ripon.edu> References: <8CD34A788B2E749-1BF8-7BC3@webmail-d057.sysops.aol.com>, <4CAECBB0.6050801@nut-n-but.net>, <0ED59662-4C5C-4AE6-9D00-BC54581DD3EA@ripon.edu> Message-ID: I find this endlessly interesting. I tend to be more like you, David--the John M. Bennet model--in which I write a lot of poems; a lot of which aren't and never will be very good, but often provide a way of working out an idea or structure I am interested in, which I tend to do over the course of 'multiple' poems, which are really, I think, multiple draftings of one stream or current. Still, I show poems to poets I trust and that often helps me see the poem inside a usually larger more amorphous poem; I also think "horatian" revising can often help you think about the overall shape of a poem in ways that are valuable or stretch you beyond the "revised" poem; I know I have killed a great many poems by over-cautious revision and, yet, I tell students you can't be an excellent poet if you don't revise. I am fascinated by how attached I seem to be to certain syntactical patterns; undoing this attachment, which is, for reasons I don't fully grasp, unbelievably difficult for me, is much of the purpose of revision for me. I believe it was Donald Hall who said--maybe in that essay Flying Revision's Flag--that when a breakthrough came in his poetry it was often the sound of the words and when he found a new sound (or a new syntactical pattern, which often accompanied this) he found new areas of feeling to explore. I don't know that Hall is a favorite poet of mine, but I agree with him about that--what amazes me, primarily, is how much I must strive and push to make often even relatively small changes--not in a poem, so much--but in how I put together words; even as doing so feels critical. I would like more mechanical and radical strategies for revising to become more part of me--would love to hear what others do--I mean really "do" to their poems-- Sheila From: grahamd at ripon.edu Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2010 10:14:05 -0500 To: new-poetry at charlemagne.cddc.vt.edu Subject: [New-Poetry] On revision On Oct 8, 2010, at 2:43 AM, Bob Grumman wrote: I'm big on revision, myself, but (1) there are excellent poets who don't revise much--for example, John M. Bennett, whom I consider the only contemporary poet I'm sure is major; and (2) everyone born to be a poet will be forced by his gift, which will include a desire to work hard, to do everything he can to compose superior poems, whether it be to spend great amounts of time on each of his or, like Bennett, spend a great amount of time composing poems, each of which in effect revises previous poems. Or so I dogmatically believe. --Bob G. ============================ My take on this as a teacher is to propose that there are no excellent poets who don't revise much. But I add the qualifier that there are many kinds of revision, including the sort that John Bennett does. As I often put it to my students, you can either write a poem & do 50 revisions of it; or you can write 50 poems and then pick the best one. You can't just write one poem, refuse to consider improvements, and still assume it's a work of eternal genius. My own practice has been evolving more & more in the direction of the Bennett mode, as a matter of fact. I was always fairly prolific, as far as I can tell in comparing myself to friends who write. But a single poem typically could take 3 years to complete, over many revisions. In the past few years I've gone whole hog the other direction: been writing a new poem daily since 2007. This was a one-year experiment that got out of control, and I'm having so much fun with it I've seen no reason to stop. Sometimes I write two or three. After my first year at it, I counted up my productions and discovered I had over 800 new poems. Unsurprisingly, very few are publishable, the vast majority aren't any good at all, and most never escape my journal. I can't even begin to remember them all. I still revise, of course, when I get one I think is a potential keeper. It never goes out to an editor as a first draft, by any means. But a lot of my revision takes place in those poems that never make it out of the journal. I am intrigued by the kind of fluency, wildness and grace that I see in the best work of poets like Ginsberg, Neruda, and O'Hara. Of course, I often wish that they didn't publish *all* their lesser efforts, but I imagine that the best ones probably could not have arisen from any other method. I don't believe that the Horatian endless reviser can often achieve that particular sort of grace. There are other virtues to the heavy revision mode, of course, and luckily these matters are never either/or. I don't have to give up Elizabeth Bishop to enjoy Frank O'Hara. ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.me.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Fri Oct 8 16:05:44 2010 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2010 13:05:44 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] On revision In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <163874.54967.qm@web55206.mail.re4.yahoo.com> John M. Bennett, whom I consider the only contemporary poet I'm sure is major interesting: if I had to pick one poet, I'd go with Merwin. but I'm going to look up Bennett/and read. --- On Fri, 10/8/10, sheila black wrote: From: sheila black Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] On revision To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Date: Friday, October 8, 2010, 3:36 PM I?find this endlessly interesting.? I tend to be more like you, David--the John M. Bennet model--in which I write a lot of poems; a lot of which aren't and?never will be very good, but often provide a way of working out an idea or structure I am interested in, which I tend to do over the course of 'multiple' poems, which are really, I think, multiple draftings of one stream or current.? Still, I show poems to poets I trust and that often helps me see the poem inside a usually larger more amorphous poem; I also think "horatian" revising can often help you think about the overall shape of a poem in ways that are valuable or?stretch you beyond the "revised" poem; I?know I have killed a great many poems by over-cautious revision and, yet, I tell students you can't be an excellent poet if you don't revise.? I am fascinated by how attached I seem to be to certain syntactical patterns; undoing this?attachment, which is, for reasons I don't fully grasp, unbelievably difficult for me, is?much of the purpose of revision for me. ?I believe it was?Donald?Hall who said--maybe in that essay Flying Revision's Flag--that when a breakthrough came in his poetry it was often the sound? of the words and?when he found a new sound (or a new syntactical pattern, which often accompanied this) he found new areas of feeling to explore.? I don't know that Hall is a favorite poet of mine, but I agree with him about that--what amazes me, primarily,?is how much I must strive and push to make often even relatively small changes--not in a poem, so much--but in how I put together words; even as doing so?feels critical. ? I?would like more mechanical and radical strategies for revising to become more part of me--would love to hear what others do--I mean really "do" to their poems-- ? Sheila ? From: grahamd at ripon.edu Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2010 10:14:05 -0500 To: new-poetry at charlemagne.cddc.vt.edu Subject: [New-Poetry] On revision On Oct 8, 2010, at 2:43 AM, Bob Grumman wrote: I'm big on revision, myself, but (1) there are excellent poets who don't revise much--for example, John M. Bennett, whom I consider the only contemporary poet I'm sure is major; and (2) everyone born to be a poet will be forced by his gift, which will include a desire to work hard, to do everything he can to compose superior poems, whether it be to spend great amounts of time on each of his or, like Bennett, spend a great amount of time composing poems, each of which in effect revises previous poems.? Or so I dogmatically believe. --Bob G. ============================ My take on this as a teacher is to propose that there are no excellent poets who don't revise much. ?But I add the qualifier that there are many kinds of revision, including the sort that John Bennett does. ?As I often put it to my students, you can either write a poem & do 50 revisions of it; or you can write 50 poems and then pick the best one. ?You can't just write one poem, refuse to consider improvements, and still assume it's a work of eternal genius. My own practice has been evolving more & more in the direction of the Bennett mode, as a matter of fact. ?I was always fairly prolific, as far as I can tell in comparing myself to friends who write. ?But a single poem typically could take 3 years to complete, over many revisions. ?In the past few years I've gone whole hog the other direction: ?been writing a new poem daily since 2007. ?This was a one-year experiment that got out of control, and I'm having so much fun with it I've seen no reason to stop. ? Sometimes I write two or three. ?After my first year at it, I counted up my productions and discovered I had over 800 new poems. ?Unsurprisingly, very few are publishable, the vast majority aren't any good at all, and most never escape my journal. ?I can't even begin to remember them all. ?I still revise, of course, when I get one I think is a potential keeper. ?It never goes out to an editor as a first draft, by any means. ?But a lot of my revision takes place in those poems that never make it out of the journal. I am intrigued by the kind of fluency, wildness and grace that I see in the best work of poets like Ginsberg, Neruda, and O'Hara. ?Of course, I often wish that they didn't publish *all* their lesser efforts, but I imagine that the best ones probably could not have arisen from any other method. I don't believe that the Horatian endless reviser can often achieve that particular sort of grace. ?There are other virtues to the heavy revision mode, of course, and luckily these matters are never either/or. ?I don't have to give up Elizabeth Bishop to enjoy Frank O'Hara. ? ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.me.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From c.a.b.daly at gmail.com Fri Oct 8 16:58:51 2010 From: c.a.b.daly at gmail.com (Catherine Daly) Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2010 13:58:51 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Three Kinds of Poetry Appreciators In-Reply-To: <4CAF7964.6050208@nut-n-but.net> References: <79c414ffe1354454a58dc345d7db6c4c.squirrel@webmail4.web.com> <4CAC9D37.5080402@nut-n-but.net> <4CACFDCD.3050500@nut-n-but.net> <4CADBDE3.8000004@nut-n-but.net> <250844.42338.qm@web33308.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <4A475AFA3E7C4E78ACE2B55C1EF6C9DF@OwnerPC> <4CAF7964.6050208@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: I like these three. For poets reading poetry, and for critics and for teachers, I would add: identification / recognition: poet's poetry -- "I know what this poet is doing (perhaps because I do it)" classification: critical approach: I appreciate this because I can identify where it fits in the scheme of things, schools, identities, theories, regions, themes, etc. teaching: this must be important because I can see that I can include it when teaching more famous poet x (influence, technique, form, etc.), or category poetry (theory, identity, cultural category) or writing poems like this... -- All best, Catherine Daly c.a.b.daly at gmail.com From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Fri Oct 8 18:58:40 2010 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Fri, 08 Oct 2010 17:58:40 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] On revision In-Reply-To: <163874.54967.qm@web55206.mail.re4.yahoo.com> References: <163874.54967.qm@web55206.mail.re4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4CAFA220.5000406@nut-n-but.net> On 10/8/2010 3:05 PM, stephen russell wrote: > John M. Bennett, whom I consider the only contemporary poet I'm sure > is major > > interesting: if I had to pick one poet, I'd go with Merwin. > but I'm going to look up Bennett/and read. > To each his own and all that, Stephen, but if you'd go with Merwin, I guarantee you'll wonder why I'd go with Bennett. His poems are everywhere on the poetry continuum but the part Merwin's poems are in. One of the reasons I admire him is that does so many different kinds of poems. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Fri Oct 8 19:23:19 2010 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Fri, 08 Oct 2010 18:23:19 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Three Kinds of Poetry Appreciators In-Reply-To: References: <79c414ffe1354454a58dc345d7db6c4c.squirrel@webmail4.web.com><4CAC9D37.5080402@nut-n-but.net> <4CACFDCD.3050500@nut-n-but.net><4CADBDE3.8000004@nut-n-but.net><250844.42338.qm@web33308.mail.mud.yahoo.com><4A475AFA3E7C4E78 ACE2B55C1EF6C9DF@OwnerPC><4CAF7964.6050208@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <4CAFA7E7.6000403@nut-n-but.net> On 10/8/2010 3:58 PM, Catherine Daly wrote: > I like these three. > > For poets reading poetry, and for critics and for teachers, I would add: > > identification / recognition: poet's poetry -- "I know what this poet > is doing (perhaps because I do it)" I'm not sure. It seems to me the appreciator in this case might come to identify with "what this poet is doing" for one of the other three reasons. . . . I'll have to think about it. > classification: critical approach: I appreciate this because I can > identify where it fits in the scheme of things, schools, identities, > theories, regions, themes, etc. > teaching: this must be important because I can see that I can include > it when teaching more famous poet x (influence, technique, form, > etc.), or category poetry (theory, identity, cultural category) or > writing poems like this... Same thought--you might teach Basho because you write Haiku, but then the question becomes why do you write haiku, and the answer to that may be because it gives you instinctual pleasure (/primarily/, I have to remember to say that because I don't think it's possible to not appreciate a poem to some degree all three of my ways). On the other hand, you make me think about those who may read, write about or teach some poet for reasons other than appreciating it! Certainly most teachers will have to sometimes teach a poem they can't connect to in any way, and I suppose there must be unfortunates who are drawn to poems because all their friends are. Certainly there is the sentimental attraction of a poem by one's mother, or a friend. Should liking it count as "appreciating" it? As a poem? I think I'll describe my three ways of appreciation as the three /main /ways because the more I think about it, the more I realize that there are lots of other ways. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sat Oct 9 12:01:34 2010 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Sat, 09 Oct 2010 11:01:34 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Three Kinds of Poetry Appreciators In-Reply-To: References: <79c414ffe1354454a58dc345d7db6c4c.squirrel@webmail4.web.com><4CAC9D37.5080402@nut-n-but.net> <4CACFDCD.3050500@nut-n-but.net><4CADBDE3.8000004@nut-n-but.net><250844.42338.qm@web33308.mail.mud.yahoo.com><4A475AFA3E7C4E78 ACE2B55C1EF6C9DF@OwnerPC><4CAF7964.6050208@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <4CB091DE.9020003@nut-n-but.net> Thanks for the input so far, but (alas) I ain't done yet. What follows is my blog entry for today: I now propose that the three human emotional responses are instinct-based, assimilation-based and logic-based. And I'm back to naming the three emotional-evaluation types dionysian, apollonian and hermesian, with the claim that dionysian and apollonian have much in common with Nietzsche's two personality types but aren't identical to them. It's true that when introducing these I will have to spend time explaining my types, but that would be the case whatever I named them. So why not go with interesting names? In any case, the dionysian's primary emotional reaction to stimuli will be on the basis of his innate instinctive evaluation of them as painful, pleasurable or neutral. A wound will be painful, a smiling face pleasurable, a nondescript meadow neutral. Near-universal direct emotional responses to commonplace realities. He will thus generally be one of the crowd, and instinctively enjoy the feeling of oneness with others that fusing with a crowd can give one, as is true of Nietzsche's dionysian. His enjoyments will be mainly sensual, unreflective. The apollonian's primary emotional reaction to stimuli will be on the basis of his evaluation of them, mostly instinctive, as to whether or not they lead to contradictions. If they harmonize with his other relevant understandings, he will find them pleasurable. If they contradict those understandings, they will pain him to the degree that they contradict them. If they lead to neither significant agreements or disagreements, as will most often be the case, they will cause no emotional reaction. The apollonian's enjoyments will tend to be abstract, austere, thoughtful. He will feel himself above the masses, as is the case with Nietzsche's apollonian. The hermesian's emotional reaction is similar to the apollonian's inasmuch as it is determined in the cerebrum rather than coming already tagged the way the dionysian's does. However, whereas the apollonian is concerned with unchanging contradictions, the hermesian is concerned with how familiar a situation comes about, which is constantly in flux. That is, if a psychevent leads to contradiction X, it will always cause pain, but if a psychevent leads to situation Y, the result may be pain on Tuesday but pleasure on Thursday, or even later on Tuesday, since what is familiar is a matter of one's constantly growing knownledge of existence, while what is contradictory will always be contradictory. Ergo, the hermesian's response will tend to be the most sophisticated of the three. It will be due to the hermesian's long-term, cummulative experience of life, whereas the apollonian's will be due to his innate, permanent sense of consistency, and the dionysian's to his unchanging instinctive attraction-to/repulsion-from his immediate experience of life. Still, the dionysian response will be the most natural, the generally most rich. the most unarguably valid of the emotional responses. The apollonian's the most scorned but probably the one most important for establishing the final value of an artwork, with the hermesian's irrelevant if concerned with stimuli of not instinctual resonance or logic. Okay, I'm still fumbling for my take. I'm getting close to it, though. --Bob From jforjames at aol.com Sat Oct 9 12:28:53 2010 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Sat, 09 Oct 2010 12:28:53 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: now releasing PoemTalk episode #36: writing through imagism In-Reply-To: <244D63CF-5C64-4D17-A086-770A76F36D65@writing.upenn.edu> References: <244D63CF-5C64-4D17-A086-770A76F36D65@writing.upenn.edu> Message-ID: <8CD35E632958030-F64-F215@webmail-d006.sysops.aol.com> -----Original Message----- From: Al Filreis To: Al Filreis Sent: Fri, Oct 8, 2010 1:02 pm Subject: now releasing PoemTalk episode #36: writing through imagism Today we are releasing the 36th episode of PoemTalk. This one features a discussion of H.D.'s "Sea Poppies" and Jennifer Scappettone's "Vase Poppies" by Don Share, David Pavelich and Judith Goldman: http://www.poemtalk.org http://www.poetryfoundation.org/ - Al Filreis Al Filreis Kelly Professor Faculty Dir., Kelly Writers House Dir., Center for Programs in Contemporary Writing University of Pennsylvania on the web: http://writing.upenn.edu/~afilreis blog: http://writing.upenn.edu/~afilreis/blog PoemTalk: http://www.poemtalk.org = -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Sat Oct 9 16:03:24 2010 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Sat, 09 Oct 2010 16:03:24 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] On revision In-Reply-To: References: <8CD34A788B2E749-1BF8-7BC3@webmail-d057.sysops.aol.com>, <4CAECBB0.6050801@nut-n-but.net>, <0ED59662-4C5C-4AE6-9D00-BC54581DD3EA@ripon.edu> Message-ID: <8CD36042A14C493-107C-13010@webmail-m057.sysops.aol.com> Because nothing is ever finished the painter would shuffle, bonnarding, into galleries, museums, even the homes of his patrons, with hidden palette and brush: overscribble drapery and table with milk jug or fattened pear, the clabbered, ripening color of second sight. Though he knew with time the pentimenti rise? half-visible, half brine-swept fish, their plunged shapes pocking the mind?toward the end, only revision mattered: to look again, more deeply, harder, clearer, the one redemption granted us to ask. This, we say, is what we meant to say. This. This. --Jane Hirshfield, from ?History as the Painter Bonnard,? The October Palace (Harper Perennial, 1994) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From elemenope_productions at hotmail.com Sat Oct 9 16:04:34 2010 From: elemenope_productions at hotmail.com (R Dillon) Date: Sat, 9 Oct 2010 20:04:34 +0000 Subject: [New-Poetry] WorldPo: Israel's Natan Zach speak out on Gaza In-Reply-To: <196414.95595.qm@web33302.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <8CD3395E6EC523D-960-CE7@webmail-d081.sysops.aol.com>, <196414.95595.qm@web33302.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: FABIAN WOLF LEAPS OUTTA BURKHA SHEEP Noam Chomsky is banned in America, as well. Neither he, nor O, knows knows how to spell PATRIOT, as per: "citizens". Thus, both prefer Sharia to Liberty, in their RadLib Idiotcracy. (America, where John Wayne prospered, y'know, "Flyover Country".) Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2010 02:38:42 -0700 From: orpheecd at yahoo.com To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] WorldPo: Israel's Natan Zach speak out on Gaza the state of israel is a monstrosity in that its behaviour is infinitely repressive to its own citizens and to the citizesn of others it bans noam chomsky and countless others. israel ought to make a flottila get on it and head out to outerspace. From: "jforjames at aol.com" To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Wed, October 6, 2010 1:49:04 PM Subject: [New-Poetry] WorldPo: Israel's Natan Zach speak out on Gaza http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3964398,00.html Poet Zach: Israel apartheid state Leading Israeli poet says he wishes to join Gaza flotilla; 'if I were better swimmer, I would swim to Gaza,' he says The Knesset is on the offensive as one of Israel's leading poets has announced his intent to join the next flotilla to Gaza. Natan Zach condemned the government and said he was willing to join activists attempting to reach Gaza via flotillas. He added that while visiting Germany, he witnessed a huge rally where Israel was labeled as an "apartheid state." "I do not wish to live in such state," he said. _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From amyhappens at yahoo.com Sat Oct 9 19:45:16 2010 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king) Date: Sat, 9 Oct 2010 16:45:16 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] VIDA: Women in Literary Arts -- New Content, New Questions Message-ID: <145093.4238.qm@web83306.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> VIDA counts Publishers Weekly in 2010 --http://vidaweb.org/publishers-weekly-kirkus-review + PLUS -- THE QUESTIONS This month, we counted the number of books reviewed by authors? gender in the 2010 issues of Publishers Weekly (through the August 23 issue). We hope you?ll join us in wondering aloud what these numbers can tell us about current publishing trends. We heartily welcome answers to a few questions inspired by the numbers posted at the site: 1.) Fiction books are reviewed in close to equal numbers, which may indicate women are writing as much or more fiction than men. However when we look to see who is receiving the prizes, grants, and awards for fiction, the numbers tell a very different story: male authors receive the majority of prizes. Consider the ?Best of 2009? lists (here) selected by the L.A. Times, Library Journal, Salon, Washington Post, as well as historical awards for fiction such as the L.A. Times Book Prize (23 Men / 6 Women), the National Book Awards (18 Men / 8 Women), THE PEN/Faulkner Award for Fiction (24 Men / 5 Women), the Pulitzer Prize for Fiction (40 Men / 16 Women), and the list goes on (click here for the ?Historical Count?). If women are equally reviewed for their work in fiction, why doesn?t the distribution of prizes reflect that balance? 2.) Nonfiction reviews are overwhelmingly dominated by men, but women?s nonfiction seems often to be funneled into subcategories such as ?Lifestyle? which contains Parenting, Gardening, Cooking, and Health. Are these subcategories indicative of the balkanization of nonfiction written by women? Is ?Lifestyle? nonfiction-lite? Which subject matter defines the general category of nonfiction? 3.) Though fiction written by women is reviewed equally with men?s, the leap from book to audio is made largely by male-authored titles. Does the selection of books to audio reflect prize-worthy picks or are the audio books simply targeted towards a male audience? 4.) Poetry is one genre where women seem to be well received these days, and yet, the reviews evidence a primary interest in poetry written by men. Is the attention women poets seem to be receiving merely reflective of an increase in awareness of women?s poetry but not in equal measure? 5.) Are more men defining and interpreting religion in books than women? Or are female-friendly religions like Wicca and neo-paganism only coming into their own and making their way from the New Age niche onto Christianity-dominated Religion lists? 6.) In conversation with women who write Children?s Literature, I?ve learned that the genre is considered, by some, a warm up for writing adult fiction and should not be noted on resumes or in conversation in lieu of more ?serious, adult? work. Does this prejudice reflect the fact that these books are predominantly authored by women? Are fewer men writing children?s books because the work of rearing children still presumably falls within the female sphere? --http://vidaweb.org/publishers-weekly-kirkus-review ?On Gender and Publishing?: A Panel Moderated by Carmen Gim?nez Smith -- http://vidaweb.org/on-gender-and-publishing-a-panel-moderated-by-carmen-gimenez-smith What We Talk About When We?re Talking About ?The Count? --http://vidaweb.org/what-we-talk-about-when-were-talking-about-the-count Amy King Talks with Christian Teresi, Conference Director of AWP --http://vidaweb.org/amy-king-talks-with-christian-teresi-conference-director-of-awp "Best of 2009" and "Historical Count" --http://vidaweb.org/best-of-2009 Arielle Greenberg on ?Gynocentric Anthems,? the Gurlesque, and Creative Partnerships --http://vidaweb.org/gynocentric-anthems Where We Bump and Grind It: On Resisting Redemption in Women?s Memoir --http://vidaweb.org/where-we-bump-and-grind Africa is in This World ? On Chimamanda Ngozi Adichie --http://vidaweb.org/africa-is-in-this-world Full Disclosure: I Was A Teenage Poetry Bride --http://vidaweb.org/full-disclosure Due Date vs. Deadline --http://vidaweb.org/due-date-vs-deadline VIDA: WOMEN IN LITERARY ARTS http://vidaweb.org/ ******** Amy's Alias + http://amyking.org/ ******** -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From alexdickow9 at yahoo.com Sat Oct 9 22:14:21 2010 From: alexdickow9 at yahoo.com (Alexander Dickow) Date: Sat, 9 Oct 2010 19:14:21 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] On revision, 4:14 am in Nancy, France In-Reply-To: <8CD36042A14C493-107C-13010@webmail-m057.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CD34A788B2E749-1BF8-7BC3@webmail-d057.sysops.aol.com>, <4CAECBB0.6050801@nut-n-but.net>, <0ED59662-4C5C-4AE6-9D00-BC54581DD3EA@ripon.edu> <8CD36042A14C493-107C-13010@webmail-m057.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <649253.13127.qm@web35503.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I like this: "overscribble drapery and table with milk jug or fattened pear, the clabbered, ripening color of second sight." But I feel like there's something familiar here, as though there was a lot of virtuosity, but not quite so much audacity. Fairly crunchy lines nonetheless. Crunchy is good. I hope?all you NewPo folks are puzzling over my Riddle sonnet at Adam Biles' Gulper Eel. If there are no interesting responses at the end of the month, I will be Extremely Sad, and even if I am the token FrenchPo dude here and a lurker since the dissertation's got me down, I'm hopin' fer a bit o' Curiosity outta you NewPo kids.... Amicalement ??quatre heures du matin, Alex ? www.alexdickow.net/blog/ les mots! ah quel d?sert ? la fin merveilleux. -- Henri Droguet ________________________________ From: "jforjames at aol.com" To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Sat, October 9, 2010 10:03:24 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] On revision Because nothing is ever finished the painter would shuffle, bonnarding, into galleries, museums, even the homes of his patrons, with hidden palette and brush: overscribble drapery and table with milk jug or fattened pear, the clabbered, ripening color of second sight. ? Though he knew with time the pentimenti rise? half-visible, half brine-swept fish, their plunged shapes pocking the mind?toward the end, only revision mattered: to look again, more deeply, harder, clearer, the one redemption granted us to ask. ? This, we say, is what we meant to say. This. This. ? ? --Jane Hirshfield, from ?History as the Painter Bonnard,? The October Palace (Harper Perennial, 1994) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From orpheecd at yahoo.com Sat Oct 9 22:45:10 2010 From: orpheecd at yahoo.com (orphee) Date: Sat, 9 Oct 2010 19:45:10 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] On revision, 4:14 am in Nancy, France In-Reply-To: <649253.13127.qm@web35503.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <8CD34A788B2E749-1BF8-7BC3@webmail-d057.sysops.aol.com>, <4CAECBB0.6050801@nut-n-but.net>, <0ED59662-4C5C-4AE6-9D00-BC54581DD3EA@ripon.edu> <8CD36042A14C493-107C-13010@webmail-m057.sysops.aol.com> <649253.13127.qm@web35503.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <165844.15229.qm@web33303.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Only the hand that erases can write the true thing. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From c.a.b.daly at gmail.com Sat Oct 9 22:49:27 2010 From: c.a.b.daly at gmail.com (Catherine Daly) Date: Sat, 9 Oct 2010 19:49:27 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] On revision, 4:14 am in Nancy, France In-Reply-To: <649253.13127.qm@web35503.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <8CD34A788B2E749-1BF8-7BC3@webmail-d057.sysops.aol.com> <4CAECBB0.6050801@nut-n-but.net> <0ED59662-4C5C-4AE6-9D00-BC54581DD3EA@ripon.edu> <8CD36042A14C493-107C-13010@webmail-m057.sysops.aol.com> <649253.13127.qm@web35503.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I was reading about 20 lb pears today.... Marco Polo.... -- All best, Catherine Daly c.a.b.daly at gmail.com From orpheecd at yahoo.com Sat Oct 9 22:46:58 2010 From: orpheecd at yahoo.com (orphee) Date: Sat, 9 Oct 2010 19:46:58 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] On revision, 4:14 am in Nancy, France In-Reply-To: <165844.15229.qm@web33303.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <8CD34A788B2E749-1BF8-7BC3@webmail-d057.sysops.aol.com>, <4CAECBB0.6050801@nut-n-but.net>, <0ED59662-4C5C-4AE6-9D00-BC54581DD3EA@ripon.edu> <8CD36042A14C493-107C-13010@webmail-m057.sysops.aol.com> <649253.13127.qm@web35503.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <165844.15229.qm@web33303.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <166463.30763.qm@web33307.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Nancy? O whata lovely name __ I think of Leonard Cohen's old song Nancy wore green stockings. Do forgive my dada disruptions, yet they are based purely in my expatriated Irish sensibility as one living a Paris ________________________________ From: orphee To: NewPoetry List Sent: Sat, October 9, 2010 10:45:10 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] On revision, 4:14 am in Nancy, France Only the hand that erases can write the true thing. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From orpheecd at yahoo.com Sat Oct 9 22:54:50 2010 From: orpheecd at yahoo.com (orphee) Date: Sat, 9 Oct 2010 19:54:50 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] On revision, 4:14 am in Nancy, France In-Reply-To: References: <8CD34A788B2E749-1BF8-7BC3@webmail-d057.sysops.aol.com> <4CAECBB0.6050801@nut-n-but.net> <0ED59662-4C5C-4AE6-9D00-BC54581DD3EA@ripon.edu> <8CD36042A14C493-107C-13010@webmail-m057.sysops.aol.com> <649253.13127.qm@web35503.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <953438.96012.qm@web33308.mail.mud.yahoo.com> this is too funny/my kind of revision. with ________________________________ From: Catherine Daly To: NewPoetry List Sent: Sat, October 9, 2010 10:49:27 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] On revision, 4:14 am in Nancy, France I was reading about 20 lb pears today.... Marco Polo.... -- All best, Catherine Daly c.a.b.daly at gmail.com _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From alexdickow9 at yahoo.com Sun Oct 10 03:12:54 2010 From: alexdickow9 at yahoo.com (Alexander Dickow) Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2010 00:12:54 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] On revision, 4:14 am in Nancy, France In-Reply-To: References: <8CD34A788B2E749-1BF8-7BC3@webmail-d057.sysops.aol.com> <4CAECBB0.6050801@nut-n-but.net> <0ED59662-4C5C-4AE6-9D00-BC54581DD3EA@ripon.edu> <8CD36042A14C493-107C-13010@webmail-m057.sysops.aol.com> <649253.13127.qm@web35503.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <504465.793.qm@web35508.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Those are some mighty big pears. I lost a filling yesterday. Marco polo. ? www.alexdickow.net/blog/ les mots! ah quel d?sert ? la fin merveilleux. -- Henri Droguet ________________________________ From: Catherine Daly To: NewPoetry List Sent: Sun, October 10, 2010 4:49:27 AM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] On revision, 4:14 am in Nancy, France I was reading about 20 lb pears today.... Marco Polo.... -- All best, Catherine Daly c.a.b.daly at gmail.com _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Sun Oct 10 14:49:45 2010 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2010 20:49:45 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poem of the week: emily Message-ID: http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/booksblog/2010/oct/04/poem-of-the-week-emily-dickinson What mystery pervades a well! That water lives so far ? A neighbor from another world Residing in a jar Whose limit none has ever seen, But just his lid of glass ? Like looking every time you please In an abyss's face! The grass does not appear afraid, I often wonder he Can stand so close and look so bold At what is awe to me. Related somehow they may be, The sedge stands near the sea ? Where he is floorless And does no timidity betray But nature is a stranger yet: The ones that cite her most Have never passed her haunted house, Nor simplified her ghost. To pity those that know her not Is helped by the regret That those who know her, know her less The nearer her they get. Dickinson -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Sun Oct 10 11:48:11 2010 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2010 17:48:11 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: Michael Rothenberg, Sunnylyn Thibodeaux and Micah Ballard at Bird & Beckett, SF, Oct 17th 2pm In-Reply-To: <002901cb67e0$251e7780$6401a8c0@LENOVOB39742E2> References: <002901cb67e0$251e7780$6401a8c0@LENOVOB39742E2> Message-ID: Subject: Michael Rothenberg, Sunnylyn Thibodeaux and Micah Ballard at Bird & Beckett, SF, Oct 17th 2pm To: walterblue at bigbridge.org -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/jpeg Size: 183819 bytes Desc: not available URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Mon Oct 11 11:10:56 2010 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2010 17:10:56 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Gli Uffici in Florence Message-ID: http://www.haltadefinizione.com/home.jsp?lingua=en -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at gmail.com Mon Oct 11 11:30:19 2010 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2010 10:30:19 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Gli Uffici in Florence In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Now that's really quite spectacular. Thanks, Anny. Hal Serving the tri-state area. Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home *Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ;* *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; * ***Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; * ***G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; * *Transparencies & Projections * On Mon, Oct 11, 2010 at 10:10 AM, Anny Ballardini wrote: > > http://www.haltadefinizione.com/home.jsp?lingua=en > > > -- > Anny Ballardini > http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ > http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome > http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 > http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html > I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing > star! > Friedrich Nietzsche > > ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique > vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? > Giovenale > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Mon Oct 11 12:13:49 2010 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2010 18:13:49 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Pictures Message-ID: Quite an interesting selection of pictures if you have the time to scroll through all the pages: http://www.aisthesis.de/wbock/medien2.html -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Mon Oct 11 14:41:01 2010 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2010 14:41:01 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] A peasant-poet, a bull and a widow... Message-ID: <8CD378AFC956AD1-161C-3755@Webmail-d118.sysops.aol.com> http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/hr/film-reviews/rolling-home-with-a-bull-film-review-1004120238.story Bottom Line: Zen and the art of cattle maintenance. BUSAN, South Korea -- A peasant-poet, a bull and a widow become travel companions and form a love-hate relationship in "Rolling Home with a Bull" -- a road movie with truckloads of charm that doubles as a Buddhist pilgrimage. Director Yim Sun-rye knows how to tell a cock-and-bull story with raconteur's skill. She also brings to the screen unspoiled rural vistas of Korea that would give wanderlust to the most sedate audience -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Mon Oct 11 15:10:15 2010 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2010 21:10:15 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] SUSAN GLASPELL SOCIETY Message-ID: SUSAN GLASPELL SOCIETY AT THE 8TH INTERNATIONAL EUGENE O?NEIL CONFERENCE, JUNE 22-26, 2011 Call for Papers Panel: ?The Beloved Community?: The Provincetown Players in Context Sponsored by the Susan Glaspell Society at the Eighth International Conference on Eugene O?Neill, Greenwich Village, New York City, June 22-26, 2011. Recent scholarship on Susan Glaspell and other writers and artists of the Provincetown experiment has probed and deconstructed the by now mythical narratives of its founding and evolution to provide a more historicized and intertextual analysis of the Players and the plays. These studies situate the group at an important historical moment?the development of socialism, feminism, psychoanalysis, modernism, and the emergence of global warfare?and reveal shared stylistic and thematic concerns as well as their profound connections to other writers, cultural institutions, ideologies, discourses, and events of the period. This panel seeks papers that build on this research to explore the synergies between plays produced by the Provincetown (1916-1922) and writings produced by Village institutions with which they shared members, ideals, and a range of responses to events and conditions of this period. These groups include, but are not restricted to, the Washington Square Players, the radical faction of the Liberal Club, the revolutionary publication The Masses, and Heterodoxy?a discussion group constituted by women, many of whom were key figures in progressive movements of the period. We invite proposals that take a historicist or cultural studies approach to plays produced by the Provincetown and discern an interpretive dialogue between the drama and essays, magazine articles, treatises, manifestoes, art exhibition catalogues, political rally documents and autobiographical writing generated by these groups and figures. Proposals should include name, academic affiliation (if applicable), mail and e-mail addresses, paper title, and an abstract (limited to 300 words). Send proposals (preferably by e-mail) to: Session Chair and Organizer: Sharon Friedman (sf2 at nyu.edu) The Gallatin School, New York University Deadline: January 20, 2011 For information on the conference see: Eugene O?Neill Society website. Barbara Ozieblo, Dpto. de Filologia Inglesa, Facultad de FIlosofia y Letras, Universidad de Malaga, 29071 Malaga www.susanglaspell.org -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Mon Oct 11 15:09:15 2010 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2010 21:09:15 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] The Instituto Franklin Message-ID: *The academic journal ?CAMINO REAL. Estudios de las Hispanidades Norteamericanas? welcomes new submissions for its next numbers in 2010/ 2011. * CAMINO REAL is a peer- reviewed and multidisciplinary publication of the Instituto Franklin- Universidad de Alcal? (Madrid, Spain). *Deadline for submission: October 30th, 2010.* The Instituto Franklin invites articles that reflect the different sensibilities and peculiarities of the Hispanic world in the United States, including artistic, political, economic, sociological, cultural, literary, and historical perspective. Contributions should be made as full research papers up to 8000 words in length. Please follow the publication guidelineson the website, before submitting: Article submission and contact information: cristina.crespo at uah.es Book review information and submission: jvillalo at tamu.edu CAMINO REAL: Estudios de las Hispanidades Norteamericanas Editor: Jos? Antonio Gurpegui, PhD (Senior Professor of American Studies, UAH) ISSN: 1889- 5611 ?Instituto Franklin- UAH Instituto Franklin- Universidad de Alcal? Trinitarios, 1. 28801 Alcal? de Henares, Madrid, Spain www.institutofranklin.net Thank you very much, Sincerely, Iulia Marcela Vescan C/ Trinidad, 1 28801, Alcal? de Henares Madrid, Spain Tel.: +34 91 885 4461 Fax: +34 91 885 5248 Instituto Franklin- UAH www.institutofranklin.net -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Mon Oct 11 17:05:22 2010 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2010 17:05:22 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Carl Dennis' Callings Message-ID: <8CD379F2739A35F-11E8-192E@webmail-m024.sysops.aol.com> http://blogs.buffalonews.com/artsbeat/2010/10/the-conjectural-poetics-of-carl-denniss-callings.html The conjectural poetics of Carl Dennis' "Callings" Oct 9, 2010 3:38:46 PM / ...Learn to take pleasure in the effort itself And you won't be sorry if you can't step back Far enough from your handiwork to see it whole... --Carl Dennis, from "Style" The 41 poems in Carl Dennis' new collection Callings (Penguin Poets Series) are full of hypothetical particularities, conversational voices speculating on the nature of free will, moral decision making, and whether one finds or loses one's self in one's work. At 2 p.m. Sunday, Dennis will read from and sign copies of the book at the Burchfield Penney Art Center on the Buffalo State College campus. The event is free and open to the public. Nominally, Callings is about "vocations": the work we believe defines us as much as we define it. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Mon Oct 11 18:23:00 2010 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2010 17:23:00 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Carl Dennis' Callings In-Reply-To: <8CD379F2739A35F-11E8-192E@webmail-m024.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CD379F2739A35F-11E8-192E@webmail-m024.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <4CB38E44.4060909@nut-n-but.net> On 10/11/2010 4:05 PM, jforjames at aol.com wrote: > http://blogs.buffalonews.com/artsbeat/2010/10/the-conjectural-poetics-of-carl-denniss-callings.html > The conjectural poetics of Carl Dennis' "Callings" > Oct 9, 2010 3:38:46 PM / > ...Learn to take pleasure in the effort itself > And you won't be sorry if you can't step back > Far enough from your handiwork to see it whole... > --Carl Dennis, from "Style" > > The 41 poems in Carl Dennis' new collection Callings (Penguin Poets > Series) are full of hypothetical particularities, conversational > voices speculating on the nature of free will, moral decision making, > and whether one finds or loses one's self in one's work. At 2 p.m. > Sunday, Dennis will read from and sign copies of the book at the > Burchfield Penney Art Center on the Buffalo State College campus. The > event is free and open to the public. > > Nominally, Callings is about "vocations": the work we believe defines > us as much as we define it. Note how it is what the poems are about that counts in the above description. A bunch of opinions. . . . --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From almaginnes at aol.com Mon Oct 11 18:46:55 2010 From: almaginnes at aol.com (almaginnes at aol.com) Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2010 18:46:55 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Carl Dennis' Callings In-Reply-To: <4CB38E44.4060909@nut-n-but.net> References: <8CD379F2739A35F-11E8-192E@webmail-m024.sysops.aol.com> <4CB38E44.4060909@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <8CD37AD5717D43E-1778-3CDD@webmail-d097.sysops.aol.com> Read the whole review Bob. The reviewer talks about much more than the subject matter of the poems. And the poems transcend their subject matter as well. -----Original Message----- From: Bob Grumman To: NewPoetry List Sent: Mon, Oct 11, 2010 6:23 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Carl Dennis' Callings On 10/11/2010 4:05 PM, jforjames at aol.com wrote: http://blogs.buffalonews.com/artsbeat/2010/10/the-conjectural-poetics-of-carl-denniss-callings.html The conjectural poetics of Carl Dennis' "Callings" Oct 9, 2010 3:38:46 PM / ...Learn to take pleasure in the effort itself And you won't be sorry if you can't step back Far enough from your handiwork to see it whole... --Carl Dennis, from "Style" The 41 poems in Carl Dennis' new collection Callings (Penguin Poets Series) are full of hypothetical particularities, conversational voices speculating on the nature of free will, moral decision making, and whether one finds or loses one's self in one's work. At 2 p.m. Sunday, Dennis will read from and sign copies of the book at the Burchfield Penney Art Center on the Buffalo State College campus. The event is free and open to the public. Nominally, Callings is about "vocations": the work we believe defines us as much as we define it. Note how it is what the poems are about that counts in the above description. A bunch of opinions. . . . --Bob _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From elemenope_productions at hotmail.com Mon Oct 11 19:54:35 2010 From: elemenope_productions at hotmail.com (R Dillon) Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2010 23:54:35 +0000 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poem of the week: emily In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: She never abandoned her sense of perception for human relationships. She would have been horrified to see such figures as Gloria Allred and Lady Gaga unleashed upon America, released somehow from their Haunted House. Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2010 20:49:45 +0200 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Subject: [New-Poetry] Poem of the week: emily http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/booksblog/2010/oct/04/poem-of-the-week-emily-dickinson What mystery pervades a well! That water lives so far ? A neighbor from another world Residing in a jar Whose limit none has ever seen, But just his lid of glass ? Like looking every time you please In an abyss's face! The grass does not appear afraid, I often wonder he Can stand so close and look so bold At what is awe to me. Related somehow they may be, The sedge stands near the sea ? Where he is floorless And does no timidity betray But nature is a stranger yet: The ones that cite her most Have never passed her haunted house, Nor simplified her ghost. To pity those that know her not Is helped by the regret That those who know her, know her less The nearer her they get.Dickinson -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Mon Oct 11 22:58:39 2010 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2010 21:58:39 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Carl Dennis' Callings In-Reply-To: <8CD37AD5717D43E-1778-3CDD@webmail-d097.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CD379F2739A35F-11E8-192E@webmail-m024.sysops.aol.com><4CB38E44.4060909@nut-n-but.net> <8CD37AD5717D43E-1778-3CDD@webmail-d097.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <4CB3CEDF.2050809@nut-n-but.net> On 10/11/2010 5:46 PM, almaginnes at aol.com wrote: > Read the whole review Bob. The reviewer talks about much more than the > subject matter of the poems. And the poems transcend their subject > matter as well. Weird, Al, I found the review to be entirely about subject matter, which includes the poet's outlook on life. It does say that he escapes formal constraints to do whatever it is he does, but it doesn't say what the constraints are or how, technically, he escapes them. Nothing against his poetry or his reviewer, I was and am just pointing out that we learn little if anything more from the review except what the poet wrote about. I should say that in my two recentest reviews, most of what I said was about the subject matter of the poems I discussed. I blame that mostly on the fact that the poems were mainstream. Even so, I found techniques to discuss or at least mention. One of my reviews will be in the next issue of The Pedestal. (As far as I know.) --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Mon Oct 11 22:45:11 2010 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2010 22:45:11 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Carl Dennis' Callings In-Reply-To: <8CD37AD5717D43E-1778-3CDD@webmail-d097.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CD379F2739A35F-11E8-192E@webmail-m024.sysops.aol.com><4CB38E44.4060909@nut-n-but.net> <8CD37AD5717D43E-1778-3CDD@webmail-d097.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <8CD37CE9FBDB29A-1B18-407C0@Webmail-m104.sysops.aol.com> It's rather unfair of you, Al, to ask someone to read something before forming an opinion about it. Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: almaginnes at aol.com To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Mon, Oct 11, 2010 6:46 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Carl Dennis' Callings Read the whole review Bob. The reviewer talks about much more than the subject matter of the poems. And the poems transcend their subject matter as well. -----Original Message----- From: Bob Grumman To: NewPoetry List Sent: Mon, Oct 11, 2010 6:23 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Carl Dennis' Callings On 10/11/2010 4:05 PM, jforjames at aol.com wrote: http://blogs.buffalonews.com/artsbeat/2010/10/the-conjectural-poetics-of-carl-denniss-callings.html The conjectural poetics of Carl Dennis' "Callings" Oct 9, 2010 3:38:46 PM / ...Learn to take pleasure in the effort itself And you won't be sorry if you can't step back Far enough from your handiwork to see it whole... --Carl Dennis, from "Style" The 41 poems in Carl Dennis' new collection Callings (Penguin Poets Series) are full of hypothetical particularities, conversational voices speculating on the nature of free will, moral decision making, and whether one finds or loses one's self in one's work. At 2 p.m. Sunday, Dennis will read from and sign copies of the book at the Burchfield Penney Art Center on the Buffalo State College campus. The event is free and open to the public. Nominally, Callings is about "vocations": the work we believe defines us as much as we define it. Note how it is what the poems are about that counts in the above description. A bunch of opinions. . . . --Bob _______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Tue Oct 12 02:53:01 2010 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2010 01:53:01 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Carl Dennis' Callings In-Reply-To: <8CD37CE9FBDB29A-1B18-407C0@Webmail-m104.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CD379F2739A35F-11E8-192E@webmail-m024.sysops.aol.com><4CB38E44.4060909@nut-n-but.net><8CD37AD5717D43E-1778-3CDD@web mail-d097.sysops.aol.com> <8CD37CE9FBDB29A-1B18-407C0@Webmail-m104.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <4CB405CD.8070508@nut-n-but.net> On 10/11/2010 9:45 PM, jforjames at aol.com wrote: > It's rather unfair of you, Al, to ask someone to read something before > forming an opinion about it. > Finnegan > My opinion was of the paragraph you posted, as I stated. However, it turned out to be accurate about the entire review. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From obodooha at gmail.com Tue Oct 12 14:56:06 2010 From: obodooha at gmail.com (Obododimma Oha) Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2010 01:56:06 +0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Once Upon an Ogboju Style Message-ID: "Big boys in Ogboju style kept packets of B & H in their shirt pockets, smoking once in a while to attract some ovation from the rest of the crowd. How could a teacher have scolded or caned a boy that had a pack of cigarettes in his pocket, or who, while still in school, had impregnated a girl and would soon be a father? But some teachers looked beyond the cigarette packs and the big boys? beards, not giving a damn whether a boy had become a man, or whether it was the cigarette that was smoking the big boy." Read full text of "Once Upon an Ogboju Style" at: http://234next.com/csp/cms/sites/Next/Opinion/Columns/5629250-184/story.csp -- Obododimma Oha http://udude.wordpress.com/ Dept. of English University of Ibadan Nigeria & Fellow, Centre for Peace & Conflict Studies University of Ibadan Phone: +234 803 333 1330; +234 805 350 6604; +234 808 264 8060. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From amyhappens at yahoo.com Wed Oct 13 11:07:39 2010 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king) Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2010 08:07:39 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] "The Crisis of the Humanities Officially Arrives" Message-ID: <32856.14531.qm@web83308.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Stanley Fish has been railing against what he considers an inevitability for some time. His latest regarding SUNY Albany may be of interest - http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/10/11/the-crisis-of-the-humanities-officially-arrives/ -- ********* Amy's Alias + http://amyking.org/ ******** -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From amyhappens at yahoo.com Wed Oct 13 11:16:20 2010 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king) Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2010 08:16:20 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] FRIDAY: Diane di Prima Reads in New York; WEDNESDAY: Muriel Rukeyser Tribute Message-ID: <867465.68975.qm@web83302.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> DIANE DI PRIMA: AN EVENING OF READING & CONVERSATION October 15, Friday, 6:00pm, Martin E. Segal Theatre The Graduate Center, CUNY, 365 Fifth Ave (btwn 34th & 35th) Join the iconic poet and activist Diane di Prima for a rare New York City appearance. Graduate Center Professor Ammiel Alcalay will engage her in a conversation about her work and life after her reading. Over the span of her remarkable career, di Prima has published 43 books of poetry and prose and, as per Allen Ginsberg, ?broke barriers of race-class identity and delivered a major body of verse brilliant in its particularity.? She is presently the Poet Laureate of San Francisco. A two-volume Lost & Found chapbook selection of her lectures on poets H.D. and Robert Duncan will be available for purchase on the night of the event. FREE AND OPEN TO THE PUBLIC No registration. Please arrive early for a seat. ~ MURIEL RUKEYSER: A TRIBUTE October 20, Wednesday, 6:30pm, The Century Club, 7 West 43rd Street Poet and biographer Jan Heller Levi, biographer Blanche Cook, and Graduate Center students and Lost & Found Editors Stefania Heim and Rowena Kennedy-Epstein read from the work of poet and activist Muriel Rukeyser and discuss their research and engagement with her opus. RESERVATIONS REQUIRED; please RSVP to tfoster at gc.cuny.edu to attend. For more information, visit http://centerforthehumanitiesgc.org/ ********* Amy's Alias + http://amyking.org/ ******** -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Edward.Byrne at valpo.edu Wed Oct 13 10:38:20 2010 From: Edward.Byrne at valpo.edu (Edward Byrne) Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2010 09:38:20 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] New issue of Valparaiso Poetry Review Message-ID: <4CB57E080200006E00075589@gwdm1.valpo.edu> I am pleased to announce publication of the Fall/Winter 2010-2011 issue (Volume XII, Number 1) of Valparaiso Poetry Review, which includes A.E. Stallings as the featured poet. Readers will find a trio of new poems, titled ?Three Poems to Psyche,? by A.E. Stallings, an interview with the poet, and an extended essay on Stallings? poetry by Angela Taraskiewicz. In addition to Stallings, 38 other poets are represented in the Fall/Winter 2010-2011 issue of VPR. The issue also includes reviews of recent books by Barbara Crooker, Marilyn Hacker, and H. Palmer Hall. Gregg Hertzlieb contributes commentary on the cover artwork by Sadao Watanabe. http://edwardbyrne.blogspot.com/2010/10/valparaiso-poetry-review-fallwinter.html Readers will discover that this issue introduces a new look and altered format from previous volumes of VPR. Valparaiso Poetry Review has been published with a uniform appearance since its premiere issue in October of 1999. However, the program used for constructing the journal?s pages has become outdated. Indeed, some software employed was discontinued five years ago. In addition, this semester Valparaiso University initiated a new look across all pages in its web presence. Therefore, this seemed like the opportune moment to update and renovate Valparaiso Poetry Review in a manner consistent with the rest of Valparaiso University?s web pages. I encourage readers to take time and become acquainted with the new appearance of VPR, which presents a streamlined arrangement with more compressed format and easier navigation between pages. -------------------------------------------------- Edward Byrne Department of English 322 Huegli Hall Valparaiso University Valparaiso, IN 46383-6493 E-mail: edward.byrne at valpo.edu Home Page: http://www.valpo.edu/home/faculty/ebyrne/homepage/ Faculty Page: http://www.valpo.edu/english/faculty/byrne.php Latest Book: http://www.turningpointbooks.com/byrne.html Personal Blog: http://www.edwardbyrnepoetry.blogspot.com/ Editor, Valparaiso Poetry Review E-mail: vpr at valpo.edu VPR Web Page: http://www.valpo.edu/vpr/ VPR Editor's Blog: http://edwardbyrne.blogspot.com/ Office Phone: (219) 464-5278 Twitter: http://twitter.com/valpopoetry Fax: (219) 464-5511 -------------------------------------------------- -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Wed Oct 13 14:03:12 2010 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2010 13:03:12 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] "The Crisis of the Humanities Officially Arrives" In-Reply-To: <32856.14531.qm@web83308.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: <32856.14531.qm@web83308.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4CB5F460.7020203@nut-n-but.net> On 10/13/2010 10:07 AM, amy king wrote: > Stanley Fish has been railing against what he considers an > inevitability for some time. > > > His latest regarding SUNY Albany may be of interest - He's a nullosopher, so his views are worthless. As for the humanities, they're at their healthiest far outside the university. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From junction at earthlink.net Wed Oct 13 13:17:55 2010 From: junction at earthlink.net (Mark Weiss) Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2010 13:17:55 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] "The Crisis of the Humanities Officially Arrives" In-Reply-To: <4CB5F460.7020203@nut-n-but.net> References: <32856.14531.qm@web83308.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <4CB5F460.7020203@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: Yeah, but it's a lot harder to study French or Latin without classes. If there's a philosophical issue here, it's about the goals of education. The universities are corporate entities masquerading as not-for-profits, except of course for the ones that are in fact for profit. University presidents are ceos and are paid accordingly. And programs that don't pull their weight, by attracting students (creative writing, anyone? identity studies? student health clubs?), or grants, patents, tv fees for sports, etc., or are easily imaginable as part of a lucrative career path are vulnerable. It's been a done deal for a long time. The culture is no longer interested in what we used to call education. Best, Mark At 02:03 PM 10/13/2010, you wrote: >On 10/13/2010 10:07 AM, amy king wrote: >>Stanley Fish has been railing against what he >>considers an inevitability for some time. >> >> >>His latest regarding SUNY Albany may be of interest - > >He's a nullosopher, so his views are >worthless. As for the humanities, they're at >their healthiest far outside the university. > >--Bob > >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry New from Chax Press: Mark Weiss, As Landscape. $16. Order from http://www.chax.org/poets/weiss.htm "What a beautiful set of circumstances! What a lovely concatenation of particulars. Here is the poet alive in every sense of the word, and through every one of his senses. Instead of missing a beat or a part, Weiss? fragments are like Chekhov?s short stories?the more that gets left out, the more they seem to contain One can hear echoes from all the various ancestors...[but] the voice, at its center, its core, is pure Mark Weiss. His use of the fragment is both elegant and bafflingly clear, a pure musical threnody [it] opens a window, not only into a mind, but a person, a personality, this human figure at the emotional center of the poem." M.G. Stephens, in Jacket. http://jacketmagazine.com/40/r-weiss-rb-stephens.shtml -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd at ripon.edu Wed Oct 13 14:34:16 2010 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2010 13:34:16 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Toot Message-ID: The new issue of Valparaiso Poetry Review is now online. Personally, I think a good place to begin reading would be this page-- http://www.valpo.edu/vpr/v12n1/v12n1poetry/grahamthese.php --which, surprise surprise!--happens to contain a new one of mine. Also featured: A. E. Stallings, Philip Dacey, Lee Upton, Floyd Skloot, Grace Bauer, Tom C. Hunley, Alison Pelegrin, and many others. -- ==================================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.me.com/drjazz/ Poetry Library: http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ==================================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jeff.newberry at gmail.com Wed Oct 13 14:44:07 2010 From: jeff.newberry at gmail.com (Jeff Newberry) Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2010 14:44:07 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Terrain.org: TOOT Message-ID: Following David Graham's lead, I want to point out that a new issue of Simmons Buntin's *Terrain.org: A Journal of the Built & Natural Environments *is live. Here's a good place to begin reading this fine issue: http://www.terrain.org/poetry/26/newberry.htm The issue is chock full of good writing. Check it out. Best, Jeff Newberry -- You cannot tell people what to do, you can only tell them parables; and that is what art really is, particular stories of particular people and experience, from which each according to his own immediate and peculiar needs may draw his own conclusion. --W.H. Auden -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sheilafblack at hotmail.com Wed Oct 13 16:43:24 2010 From: sheilafblack at hotmail.com (sheila black) Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2010 20:43:24 +0000 Subject: [New-Poetry] Toot In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Isn't that "Woot?" Nice poem! Sheila Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2010 13:34:16 -0500 From: grahamd at ripon.edu To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Subject: [New-Poetry] Toot The new issue of Valparaiso Poetry Review is now online. Personally, I think a good place to begin reading would be this page-- http://www.valpo.edu/vpr/v12n1/v12n1poetry/grahamthese.php --which, surprise surprise!--happens to contain a new one of mine. Also featured: A. E. Stallings, Philip Dacey, Lee Upton, Floyd Skloot, Grace Bauer, Tom C. Hunley, Alison Pelegrin, and many others. -- ==================================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.me.com/drjazz/ Poetry Library: http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ==================================================== _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From amyhappens at yahoo.com Wed Oct 13 16:52:53 2010 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king) Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2010 13:52:53 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] "The Crisis of the Humanities Officially Arrives" Message-ID: <112037.12423.qm@web83304.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Wow, thanks for clearing it all up, Bob. On Wed Oct 13th, 2010 2:03 PM EDT Bob Grumman wrote: > On 10/13/2010 10:07 AM, amy king wrote: >> Stanley Fish has been railing against what he considers an inevitability for some time. >> >> >> His latest regarding SUNY Albany may be of interest - > >He's a nullosopher, so his views are worthless. As for the humanities, they're at their healthiest far outside the university. > >--Bob > From greggkirkmurray at yahoo.com Wed Oct 13 17:13:58 2010 From: greggkirkmurray at yahoo.com (Gregg Murray) Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2010 14:13:58 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] "The Crisis of the Humanities Officially Arrives" In-Reply-To: <4CB5F460.7020203@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <143469.74404.qm@web110508.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> I think Fish's article raises valid concerns about the "business" model of the university. The story is, of course, that SUNY Albany's president is, essentially, a CEO. Rather than being able/going to bat for the disciplines under his care, he is asked to cut costs. Unfortunately, this once might have required a university president to reflect on the value of a liberal arts education, something done more easily by someone with a liberal arts education, a Ph.D., and background as a professor in that institution. Fish notes that this man does not have such a background. He thinks that it's better to cut "useless" programs in the face of fewer resources. Rather than indulging in one-line, emotional responses, I think humanities professionals need to continue articulating the value of their respective fields. Rather than surrender universities as sites of art discrimination, as it were, I think we should mobilize our collective stance. What do we agree upon? What do we value? What are we teaching? If there is a crisis in the humanities, I'm not sure what good it does to abandon these sites of struggle, to say, well, fine, take it, I didn't really like that anyway. Yours, Gregg Murray --- On Wed, 10/13/10, Bob Grumman wrote: From: Bob Grumman Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] "The Crisis of the Humanities Officially Arrives" To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Wednesday, October 13, 2010, 1:03 PM On 10/13/2010 10:07 AM, amy king wrote: Stanley Fish has been railing against what he considers an inevitability for some time. ? His latest regarding SUNY Albany may be of interest - He's a nullosopher, so his views are worthless.? As for the humanities, they're at their healthiest far outside the university. --Bob -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Wed Oct 13 17:09:17 2010 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2010 14:09:17 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] "The Crisis of the Humanities Officially Arrives" In-Reply-To: <112037.12423.qm@web83304.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <492476.23725.qm@web55203.mail.re4.yahoo.com> Couldn't help replying: It's a mystery how hacks the likes of Stanley Fish get their reps. Maybe they have mob connections. --- On Wed, 10/13/10, amy king wrote: > From: amy king > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] "The Crisis of the Humanities Officially Arrives" > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Date: Wednesday, October 13, 2010, 4:52 PM > Wow, thanks for clearing it all up, > Bob. > > On Wed Oct 13th, 2010 2:03 PM EDT Bob Grumman wrote: > > > On 10/13/2010 10:07 AM, amy king wrote: > >> Stanley Fish has been railing against what he > considers an inevitability for some time. > >> > >> > >> His latest regarding SUNY Albany may be of > interest - > > > >He's a nullosopher, so his views are worthless.? > As for the humanities, they're at their healthiest far > outside the university. > > > >--Bob > > > > > > ? ? ? > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > From junction at earthlink.net Wed Oct 13 17:28:29 2010 From: junction at earthlink.net (Mark Weiss) Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2010 17:28:29 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] the news from chile Message-ID: Somebody call them magic realists? Don't be surprised if some of the miners head right back down. New from Chax Press: Mark Weiss, As Landscape. $16. Order from http://www.chax.org/poets/weiss.htm "What a beautiful set of circumstances! What a lovely concatenation of particulars. Here is the poet alive in every sense of the word, and through every one of his senses. Instead of missing a beat or a part, Weiss? fragments are like Chekhov?s short stories?the more that gets left out, the more they seem to contain One can hear echoes from all the various ancestors...[but] the voice, at its center, its core, is pure Mark Weiss. His use of the fragment is both elegant and bafflingly clear, a pure musical threnody [it] opens a window, not only into a mind, but a person, a personality, this human figure at the emotional center of the poem." M.G. Stephens, in Jacket. http://jacketmagazine.com/40/r-weiss-rb-stephens.shtml -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From amyhappens at yahoo.com Wed Oct 13 17:30:14 2010 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king) Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2010 14:30:14 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] "The Crisis of the Humanities Officially Arrives" In-Reply-To: <492476.23725.qm@web55203.mail.re4.yahoo.com> References: <492476.23725.qm@web55203.mail.re4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <919323.35378.qm@web83304.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Another brilliant direct response. Thanks, Stephen, for the "enlightenment." We're all so edified. Bandwagon much? Amy ******** Now That's WAC + http://wearechampion.blogspot.com/2010/08/amy-king.html Amy's Alias + http://amyking.org/ ******** ________________________________ From: stephen russell To: NewPoetry List Sent: Wed, October 13, 2010 5:09:17 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] "The Crisis of the Humanities Officially Arrives" Couldn't help replying: It's a mystery how hacks the likes of Stanley Fish get their reps. Maybe they have mob connections. --- On Wed, 10/13/10, amy king wrote: > From: amy king > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] "The Crisis of the Humanities Officially Arrives" > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Date: Wednesday, October 13, 2010, 4:52 PM > Wow, thanks for clearing it all up, > Bob. > > On Wed Oct 13th, 2010 2:03 PM EDT Bob Grumman wrote: > > > On 10/13/2010 10:07 AM, amy king wrote: > >> Stanley Fish has been railing against what he > considers an inevitability for some time. > >> > >> > >> His latest regarding SUNY Albany may be of > interest - > > > >He's a nullosopher, so his views are worthless. > As for the humanities, they're at their healthiest far > outside the university. > > > >--Bob > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From junction at earthlink.net Wed Oct 13 17:38:19 2010 From: junction at earthlink.net (Mark Weiss) Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2010 17:38:19 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] "The Crisis of the Humanities Officially Arrives" In-Reply-To: <919323.35378.qm@web83304.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: <492476.23725.qm@web55203.mail.re4.yahoo.com> <919323.35378.qm@web83304.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I often find Fish's Times column annoying, but he's not so easy to dismiss. Check out his bibliography. Is it possible that there are people on this list who aren't aware of the changes in American higher educatrion in the last thirty or so years? At 05:30 PM 10/13/2010, you wrote: >Another brilliant direct response. Thanks, >Stephen, for the "enlightenment." We're all so edified. > >Bandwagon much? > >Amy > > >******** >Now That's WAC >+ >http://wearechampion.blogspot.com/2010/08/amy-king.html > >Amy's Alias >+ http://amyking.org/ >******** > > > >From: stephen russell >To: NewPoetry List >Sent: Wed, October 13, 2010 5:09:17 PM >Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] "The Crisis of the Humanities Officially Arrives" > >Couldn't help replying: It's a mystery how hacks >the likes of Stanley Fish get their reps. Maybe they have mob connections. > >--- On Wed, 10/13/10, amy king ><amyhappens at yahoo.com> wrote: > > > From: amy king <amyhappens at yahoo.com> > > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] "The Crisis of the Humanities Officially Arrives" > > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > Date: Wednesday, October 13, 2010, 4:52 PM > > Wow, thanks for clearing it all up, > > Bob. > > > > On Wed Oct 13th, 2010 2:03 PM EDT Bob Grumman wrote: > > > > > On 10/13/2010 10:07 AM, amy king wrote: > > >> Stanley Fish has been railing against what he > > considers an inevitability for some time. > > >> > > >> > > >> His latest regarding SUNY Albany may be of > > interest - > > > > > >He's a nullosopher, so his views are worthless. > > As for the humanities, they're at their healthiest far > > outside the university. > > > > > >--Bob > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry New from Chax Press: Mark Weiss, As Landscape. $16. Order from http://www.chax.org/poets/weiss.htm "What a beautiful set of circumstances! What a lovely concatenation of particulars. Here is the poet alive in every sense of the word, and through every one of his senses. Instead of missing a beat or a part, Weiss? fragments are like Chekhov?s short stories?the more that gets left out, the more they seem to contain One can hear echoes from all the various ancestors...[but] the voice, at its center, its core, is pure Mark Weiss. His use of the fragment is both elegant and bafflingly clear, a pure musical threnody [it] opens a window, not only into a mind, but a person, a personality, this human figure at the emotional center of the poem." M.G. Stephens, in Jacket. http://jacketmagazine.com/40/r-weiss-rb-stephens.shtml -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From robin.hamilton3 at virginmedia.com Wed Oct 13 18:26:09 2010 From: robin.hamilton3 at virginmedia.com (Robin Hamilton) Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2010 23:26:09 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] "The Crisis of the Humanities Officially Arrives" In-Reply-To: References: <492476.23725.qm@web55203.mail.re4.yahoo.com><919323.35378.qm@web83304.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <9C085990BB404D5C9639C7171732981C@OwnerPC> From: Mark Weiss Sent: Wednesday, October 13, 2010 10:38 PM To: NewPoetry List Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] "The Crisis of the Humanities Officially Arrives" I often find Fish's Times column annoying, but he's not so easy to dismiss. Check out his bibliography. Yeah, started life working on Skelton, so he can't be all that bad. That was before he pioneered Reader Response Theory, chucked a cat among the Miltonic pigeons, asked if there was a text in the class, ran a department or so in his spare time, and along the way picked up enough qualifications in law to lecture on it. So really, basically, a typical NYT hack like that guy Krugman. Why they ever gave him a Nobel ... Dunno what your county's coming to. Still, at least Bob is being ... consistent. Robin ______________________________________ Is it possible that there are people on this list who aren't aware of the changes in American higher educatrion in the last thirty or so years? At 05:30 PM 10/13/2010, you wrote: Another brilliant direct response. Thanks, Stephen, for the "enlightenment." We're all so edified. Bandwagon much? Amy ******** Now That's WAC + http://wearechampion.blogspot.com/2010/08/amy-king.html Amy's Alias + http://amyking.org/ ******** From: stephen russell poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Couldn't help replying: It's a mystery how hacks the likes of Stanley Fish get their reps. Maybe they have mob connections. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From junction at earthlink.net Wed Oct 13 19:03:45 2010 From: junction at earthlink.net (Mark Weiss) Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2010 19:03:45 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] the news from chile Message-ID: Oops, forgot the url. Some of you must think I've lost the4 few marbles I had left. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/southamerica/chile/7978509/Mistresses-and-wives-clash-over-trapped-Chilean-miners.html Somebody call them magic realists? Don't be surprised if some of the miners head right back down. New from Chax Press: Mark Weiss, As Landscape. $16. Order from http://www.chax.org/poets/weiss.htm "What a beautiful set of circumstances! What a lovely concatenation of particulars. Here is the poet alive in every sense of the word, and through every one of his senses. Instead of missing a beat or a part, Weiss? fragments are like Chekhov?s short stories?the more that gets left out, the more they seem to contain One can hear echoes from all the various ancestors...[but] the voice, at its center, its core, is pure Mark Weiss. His use of the fragment is both elegant and bafflingly clear, a pure musical threnody [it] opens a window, not only into a mind, but a person, a personality, this human figure at the emotional center of the poem." M.G. Stephens, in Jacket. http://jacketmagazine.com/40/r-weiss-rb-stephens.shtml New from Chax Press: Mark Weiss, As Landscape. $16. Order from http://www.chax.org/poets/weiss.htm "What a beautiful set of circumstances! What a lovely concatenation of particulars. Here is the poet alive in every sense of the word, and through every one of his senses. Instead of missing a beat or a part, Weiss? fragments are like Chekhov?s short stories?the more that gets left out, the more they seem to contain One can hear echoes from all the various ancestors...[but] the voice, at its center, its core, is pure Mark Weiss. His use of the fragment is both elegant and bafflingly clear, a pure musical threnody [it] opens a window, not only into a mind, but a person, a personality, this human figure at the emotional center of the poem." M.G. Stephens, in Jacket. http://jacketmagazine.com/40/r-weiss-rb-stephens.shtml -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Wed Oct 13 22:37:00 2010 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2010 21:37:00 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] "The Crisis of the Humanities Officially Arrives" In-Reply-To: <919323.35378.qm@web83304.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: <492476.23725.qm@web55203.mail.re4.yahoo.com> <919323.35378.qm@web83304.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4CB66CCC.5060702@nut-n-but.net> On 10/13/2010 4:30 PM, amy king wrote: > Another brilliant direct response. Thanks, Stephen, for the > "enlightenment." We're all so edified. > > Bandwagon much? As though Fish isn't on a bandwagon. But Stephen's and my responses are at least short. --Bob G. > > Amy > > > ******** > Now That's WAC > + http://wearechampion.blogspot.com/2010/08/amy-king.html > > Amy's Alias > + http://amyking.org/ > ******** > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > *From:* stephen russell > *To:* NewPoetry List > *Sent:* Wed, October 13, 2010 5:09:17 PM > *Subject:* Re: [New-Poetry] "The Crisis of the Humanities Officially > Arrives" > > Couldn't help replying: It's a mystery how hacks the likes of Stanley > Fish get their reps. Maybe they have mob connections. > > --- On Wed, 10/13/10, amy king > wrote: > > > From: amy king > > > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] "The Crisis of the Humanities Officially > Arrives" > > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > Date: Wednesday, October 13, 2010, 4:52 PM > > Wow, thanks for clearing it all up, > > Bob. > > > > On Wed Oct 13th, 2010 2:03 PM EDT Bob Grumman wrote: > > > > > On 10/13/2010 10:07 AM, amy king wrote: > > >> Stanley Fish has been railing against what he > > considers an inevitability for some time. > > >> > > >> > > >> His latest regarding SUNY Albany may be of > > interest - > > > > > >He's a nullosopher, so his views are worthless. > > As for the humanities, they're at their healthiest far > > outside the university. > > > > > >--Bob > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Wed Oct 13 23:12:14 2010 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2010 22:12:14 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] "The Crisis of the Humanities Officially Arrives" In-Reply-To: <9C085990BB404D5C9639C7171732981C@OwnerPC> References: <492476.23725.qm@web55203.mail.re4.yahoo.com><919323.35378.qm@web83304.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <9C085990BB404D5C9639C7171732981C@OwnerPC> Message-ID: <4CB6750E.7080609@nut-n-but.net> Yeah, started life working on Skelton, so he can't be all that bad. That was before he pioneered Reader Response Theory, chucked a cat among the Miltonic pigeons, asked if there was a text in the class, ran a department or so in his spare time, and along the way picked up enough qualifications in law to lecture on it. > So really, basically, a typical NYT hack like that guy Krugman. Why > they ever gave /him/ a Nobel ... No, he's stupider than Krugman, who may even be second-rate, though if the Times realized he was that smart, they wouldn't let him write for them.. > Dunno what your county's coming to. > Still, at least Bob is being ... consistent. > Robin So, what did you think of his article? What was new in it? How was it anything other than a boring whine of an over-rewarded mediocrity about his fields not being thrown as much money as he thinks it should be? And a weak defense of the idea that humanities indoctrination in colleges is important. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jeff.newberry at gmail.com Wed Oct 13 22:14:08 2010 From: jeff.newberry at gmail.com (Jeff Newberry) Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2010 22:14:08 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] "The Crisis of the Humanities Officially Arrives" In-Reply-To: <4CB6750E.7080609@nut-n-but.net> References: <492476.23725.qm@web55203.mail.re4.yahoo.com> <919323.35378.qm@web83304.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <9C085990BB404D5C9639C7171732981C@OwnerPC> <4CB6750E.7080609@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: Bob, are you once again blowing smoke from your rectum and hoping that no one notices the smell? --A Mediocrity, Jeff Newberry On Wed, Oct 13, 2010 at 11:12 PM, Bob Grumman wrote: > Yeah, started life working on Skelton, so he can't be all that bad. That > was before he pioneered Reader Response Theory, chucked a cat among the > Miltonic pigeons, asked if there was a text in the class, ran a department > or so in his spare time, and along the way picked up enough qualifications > in law to lecture on it. > > > So really, basically, a typical NYT hack like that guy Krugman. Why they > ever gave *him* a Nobel ... > > > No, he's stupider than Krugman, who may even be second-rate, though if the > Times realized he was that smart, they wouldn't let him write for them.. > > > Dunno what your county's coming to. > > Still, at least Bob is being ... consistent. > > Robin > > > So, what did you think of his article? What was new in it? How was it > anything other than a boring whine of an over-rewarded mediocrity about his > fields not being thrown as much money as he thinks it should be? And a weak > defense of the idea that humanities indoctrination in colleges is important. > > --Bob > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- You cannot tell people what to do, you can only tell them parables; and that is what art really is, particular stories of particular people and experience, from which each according to his own immediate and peculiar needs may draw his own conclusion. --W.H. Auden -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jjeffreymail at yahoo.com Wed Oct 13 22:23:39 2010 From: jjeffreymail at yahoo.com (John Jeffrey) Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2010 19:23:39 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] "The Crisis of the Humanities Officially Arrives" In-Reply-To: <4CB6750E.7080609@nut-n-but.net> References: <492476.23725.qm@web55203.mail.re4.yahoo.com><919323.35378.qm@web83304.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <9C085990BB404D5C9639C7171732981C@OwnerPC> <4CB6750E.7080609@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <985197.50814.qm@web120520.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> "a boring whine...about his fields not being thrown as much money as he thinks it should be" Hmmm, this whine sounds very familiar. Where else have I heard someone complain about his field not being recognized before? ________________________________ From: Bob Grumman To: NewPoetry List Sent: Wed, October 13, 2010 11:12:14 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] "The Crisis of the Humanities Officially Arrives" Yeah, started life working on Skelton, so he can't be all that bad. That was before he pioneered Reader Response Theory, chucked a cat among the Miltonic pigeons, asked if there was a text in the class, ran a department or so in his spare time, and along the way picked up enough qualifications in law to lecture on it. >So really, basically, a typical NYT hack like that guy Krugman. Why >they ever gave him a Nobel ... No, he's stupider than Krugman, who may even be second-rate, though if the Times realized he was that smart, they wouldn't let him write for them.. >Dunno what your county's coming to. > >Still, at least Bob is being ... consistent. > >Robin > So, what did you think of his article? What was new in it? How was it anything other than a boring whine of an over-rewarded mediocrity about his fields not being thrown as much money as he thinks it should be? And a weak defense of the idea that humanities indoctrination in colleges is important. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Rsgwynn1 at cs.com Wed Oct 13 22:36:35 2010 From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com (Rsgwynn1 at cs.com) Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2010 22:36:35 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Toot Message-ID: <80849.18e51e1e.39e7c6b3@cs.com> In a message dated 10/13/2010 1:34:21 PM Central Daylight Time, grahamd at ripon.edu writes: > > The new issue of Valparaiso Poetry Review is now online. > > Personally, I think a good place to begin reading would be this page-- > > http://www.valpo.edu/vpr/v12n1/v12n1poetry/grahamthese.php > > --which, surprise surprise!--happens to contain a new one of mine. > > Also featured: A. E. Stallings, Philip Dacey, Lee Upton, Floyd Skloot, > Grace Bauer, Tom C. Hunley, Alison Pelegrin, and many others. > -- Just taught Stallings and Asst. Ed. Tufariello tonight in my creating writing class. So you're in good company. Nice poem too. There are lots of regional poems, but not a lot about weather, which strikes me one of the defining factors of any region. I'm trying to think of others--some by Bly, Saenz, and, of course, Frost. Others anyone can think of? There are probably enough to make a nice weather poetry anthology, should anyone be interested in editing one. It's a kind of delayed Georgianism, I guess, but it persists in its own fasion. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From robin.hamilton3 at virginmedia.com Wed Oct 13 23:12:20 2010 From: robin.hamilton3 at virginmedia.com (Robin Hamilton) Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2010 04:12:20 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] "The Crisis of the Humanities Officially Arrives" In-Reply-To: <4CB6750E.7080609@nut-n-but.net> References: <492476.23725.qm@web55203.mail.re4.yahoo.com><919323.35378.qm@web83304.mail.sp1.yahoo.com><9C085990BB404D5C9639C7171732981C@OwnerPC> <4CB6750E.7080609@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <6494E7EC8FAA42F4A650E8B96CFBC2CB@OwnerPC> So, what did you think of his article? What was new in it? How was it anything other than a boring whine of an over-rewarded mediocrity about his fields not being thrown as much money as he thinks it should be? And a weak defense of the idea that humanities indoctrination in colleges is important. --Bob Readable, but not that much new -- as usual with Fish, the best part (for me) was the forensic detail he goes into, maybe showing his supplementary law training, and the evisceration of the CEO in charge of the college. Other than that, it seemed to be marking a well-established trend. (Not just in the States -- happens here all the time. Loughborough lost their entire history department maybe twenty years ago, when I was working there in another department. No connection, I hope.) And at least he's honest in that the bottom line is that it's a professional discipline. I don't entirely go with Fish here, as when he was outraged by the Sokal Case for weirdly strange reasons, but hey, that's how how sees it. And lots left open (as he flags the case for a stronger defense of humanities without making it in the article itself, but hey, he's writing an op-ed piece for the Times, not a scholar;y article in Everyperson's Journal of Specialist Philosophy). And he doesn't treat the humanities as a homogenous block -- "humanities indoctrination" -- but specifies the particular areas getting axed in this instance, which is refreshing. (Mark rightly points to the necessity for a teaching structure for French and German in another post.) Frankly, I'd guess creative writing courses would be the last to go, since they're cheap to run and easy to recruit for and don't require much plant and equipment, and ... So no worries there. For better or worse. Robin -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd at ripon.edu Thu Oct 14 00:44:37 2010 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2010 23:44:37 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Toot In-Reply-To: <80849.18e51e1e.39e7c6b3@cs.com> References: <80849.18e51e1e.39e7c6b3@cs.com> Message-ID: <521FCA37-AAAA-4946-8168-477B7AAF61B4@ripon.edu> Not sure that "delayed Georgianism" is what I want my obit to say, but thanks! I tend to perk up when I encounter poems that are well grounded in time, place, and concrete social circumstance; and my eyes often glaze over when reading poems that occur no place special, or some airy realm. So: Whitman over Poe every time. . . . Thus I'd probably buy an anthology that was "about" weather, myself. But aren't such poems really about Time? That's more or less what was in my mind with this one--part of a sequence I drafted in a whoosh a couple years ago, and have been wrestling with ever since. A few years back I got very interested in the first collection of poems by Ander Monson, VACATIONLAND. One reason I liked it was because he captured, in a way I'd not seen before, the *feel* of a natural and social landscape very much like the place I was raised. He's from the upper peninsula of Michigan, and I grew up in the foothills of the Adirondacks in New York, but there are deep similarities. Small towns in the snow belt. Monson's particularly good on winter. . . . SALT It covers everything, a glossy January rind along tires. Sunny days have brought it out, burned away the ice, left the calcified tidelines to gloat on the hoods and sun-warm trunks of cars queued up along the curb, parking close as they can get to each other, to the raised sidewalk that's buried beneath the dirt crust next to the neon-lit sign for the funeral home. The body of the boy we knew is still inside, the cheeks teased back to cheery life with rouge. The ice on the canal the faulty floor through which he descended blazing on the back of his Arctic Cat is black as slate which means it's thin and boys on the shore throw aimless stones that yield ricochets with laser sounds. The outdoor rink is bare, festooned with bits of the Canadian flag fragments of the maple leaf glistening starlike after storm. --Ander Monson. Vacationland. Tupelo Press, 2005. ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.me.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== On Oct 13, 2010, at 9:36 PM, Rsgwynn1 at cs.com wrote: > In a message dated 10/13/2010 1:34:21 PM Central Daylight Time, grahamd at ripon.edu writes: >> >> The new issue of Valparaiso Poetry Review is now online. >> >> Personally, I think a good place to begin reading would be this page-- >> >> http://www.valpo.edu/vpr/v12n1/v12n1poetry/grahamthese.php >> >> --which, surprise surprise!--happens to contain a new one of mine. >> >> Also featured: A. E. Stallings, Philip Dacey, Lee Upton, Floyd Skloot, Grace Bauer, Tom C. Hunley, Alison Pelegrin, and many others. >> -- > > Just taught Stallings and Asst. Ed. Tufariello tonight in my creating writing class. So you're in good company. Nice poem too. There are lots of regional poems, but not a lot about weather, which strikes me one of the defining factors of any region. I'm trying to think of others--some by Bly, Saenz, and, of course, Frost. Others anyone can think of? There are probably enough to make a nice weather poetry anthology, should anyone be interested in editing one. It's a kind of delayed Georgianism, I guess, but it persists in its own fasion. > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From GrahamD at ripon.edu Thu Oct 14 00:50:08 2010 From: GrahamD at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2010 23:50:08 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Another weather poem Message-ID: <9D49D0C7-B946-4479-9328-54FF42D68B9F@ripon.edu> Weather I hope they never get a rope on you, weather. I hope they never put a bit in your mouth. I hope they never pack your snorts into an engine or make you wear wheels. I hope the astronauts will always have to wait till you get off the prairie because your kick is lethal, your temper worse than the megaton. I hope your harsh mane will grow forever and blow where it will, that your slick hide will always shiver and flick down your bright sweat. Reteach us terror, weather with your teeth on our ships, your hoofs on our houses, your tail swatting our planes down like flies. Before they make a grenade of our planet I hope you'll come like a comet, oh mustang--fire-eyes, upreared belly-- bust the corral and stomp us to death. --May Swenson. Nature: Poems Old and New. Hougton Mifflin, 1994. ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.me.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Thu Oct 14 02:09:23 2010 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2010 08:09:23 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Terrain.org: TOOT In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I love this opening: Dawn knives through cypress & pine, casts slatted shadows over Depot Creek. He tightlines. I eye a cork. and the entire poem, congratulations Jeff! Anny On Wed, Oct 13, 2010 at 8:44 PM, Jeff Newberry wrote: > Following David Graham's lead, I want to point out that a new issue of > Simmons Buntin's *Terrain.org: A Journal of the Built & Natural > Environments *is live. Here's a good place to begin reading this fine > issue: > > http://www.terrain.org/poetry/26/newberry.htm > > The issue is chock full of good writing. Check it out. > > Best, > Jeff Newberry > > -- > You cannot tell people what to do, you can only tell them parables; and > that is what art really is, particular stories of particular people and > experience, from which each according to his own immediate and peculiar > needs may draw his own conclusion. --W.H. Auden > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Thu Oct 14 02:10:29 2010 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2010 08:10:29 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Terrain.org: TOOT In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I would also like to add that not only David Graham, but James Finnegan, too, bathes these waters, sometimes. On Thu, Oct 14, 2010 at 8:09 AM, Anny Ballardini wrote: > I love this opening: > > Dawn knives through cypress & pine, > casts slatted shadows over Depot Creek. > > He tightlines. > I eye a cork. > > > and the entire poem, congratulations Jeff! > > Anny > > > On Wed, Oct 13, 2010 at 8:44 PM, Jeff Newberry wrote: > >> Following David Graham's lead, I want to point out that a new issue of >> Simmons Buntin's *Terrain.org: A Journal of the Built & Natural >> Environments *is live. Here's a good place to begin reading this fine >> issue: >> >> http://www.terrain.org/poetry/26/newberry.htm >> >> The issue is chock full of good writing. Check it out. >> >> Best, >> Jeff Newberry >> >> -- >> You cannot tell people what to do, you can only tell them parables; and >> that is what art really is, particular stories of particular people and >> experience, from which each according to his own immediate and peculiar >> needs may draw his own conclusion. --W.H. Auden >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > > > -- > Anny Ballardini > http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ > http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome > http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 > http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html > I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing > star! > Friedrich Nietzsche > > ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique > vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? > Giovenale > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Thu Oct 14 02:17:46 2010 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2010 08:17:46 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Toot In-Reply-To: <521FCA37-AAAA-4946-8168-477B7AAF61B4@ripon.edu> References: <80849.18e51e1e.39e7c6b3@cs.com> <521FCA37-AAAA-4946-8168-477B7AAF61B4@ripon.edu> Message-ID: I am referring to the following: So: Whitman over Poe every time. . . . for me it is the other way round, but my father would be with you, and that is also why I love my father. On Thu, Oct 14, 2010 at 6:44 AM, David Graham wrote: > Not sure that "delayed Georgianism" is what I want my obit to say, but > thanks! > > I tend to perk up when I encounter poems that are well grounded in time, > place, and concrete social circumstance; and my eyes often glaze over when > reading poems that occur no place special, or some airy realm. So: > Whitman over Poe every time. . . . > > Thus I'd probably buy an anthology that was "about" weather, myself. But > aren't such poems really about Time? That's more or less what was in my > mind with this one--part of a sequence I drafted in a whoosh a couple years > ago, and have been wrestling with ever since. > > A few years back I got very interested in the first collection of poems by > Ander Monson, VACATIONLAND. One reason I liked it was because he captured, > in a way I'd not seen before, the *feel* of a natural and social landscape > very much like the place I was raised. He's from the upper peninsula of > Michigan, and I grew up in the foothills of the Adirondacks in New York, but > there are deep similarities. Small towns in the snow belt. Monson's > particularly good on winter. . . . > > *SALT* > > It covers everything, a glossy January rind > along tires. Sunny days have brought it out, > burned away the ice, left > the calcified tidelines to gloat > on the hoods and sun-warm trunks > of cars queued up along the curb, > parking close as they can get > to each other, to the raised > sidewalk that's buried > beneath the dirt crust next to the neon-lit > sign for the funeral home. > > The body of the boy we knew is still > inside, the cheeks teased > back to cheery life with rouge. > > The ice on the canal > the faulty floor through which he descended > blazing on the back of his Arctic Cat > is black as slate > which means it's thin > and boys on the shore > throw aimless stones that yield > ricochets with laser sounds. > > The outdoor rink is bare, festooned > with bits of the Canadian flag > fragments of the maple leaf > glistening starlike after storm*.* > > > --Ander Monson. *Vacationland.* Tupelo Press, 2005. > > > ======================================== > David Graham > grahamd at ripon.edu > > Home Page: > http://web.me.com/drjazz > > Poetry Library: > http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html > ========================================== > > > > > On Oct 13, 2010, at 9:36 PM, Rsgwynn1 at cs.com wrote: > > In a message dated 10/13/2010 1:34:21 PM Central Daylight Time, > grahamd at ripon.edu writes: > > > The new issue of Valparaiso Poetry Review is now online. > > Personally, I think a good place to begin reading would be this page-- > > http://www.valpo.edu/vpr/v12n1/v12n1poetry/grahamthese.php > > --which, surprise surprise!--happens to contain a new one of mine. > > Also featured: A. E. Stallings, Philip Dacey, Lee Upton, Floyd Skloot, > Grace Bauer, Tom C. Hunley, Alison Pelegrin, and many others. > -- > > > Just taught Stallings and Asst. Ed. Tufariello tonight in my creating > writing class. So you're in good company. Nice poem too. There are lots > of regional poems, but not a lot about weather, which strikes me one of the > defining factors of any region. I'm trying to think of others--some by Bly, > Saenz, and, of course, Frost. Others anyone can think of? There are > probably enough to make a nice weather poetry anthology, should anyone be > interested in editing one. It's a kind of delayed Georgianism, I guess, but > it persists in its own fasion. > > > > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Thu Oct 14 02:30:38 2010 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2010 08:30:38 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] the poor poet and a poem Message-ID: http://christophervolpe.blogspot.com/2010/10/spitzweg-poor-poet.html -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chris.murray.bahrain at gmail.com Thu Oct 14 02:56:24 2010 From: chris.murray.bahrain at gmail.com (chris murray) Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2010 01:56:24 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Terrain.org: TOOT In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hello Everyone. Just a note to say I'm back in the US and glad to be reading this list. Choosing this comment from Anny b/c I'm also finding the poem fine. Best Wishes, Chris Murray On 10/14/10, Anny Ballardini wrote: > I love this opening: > > Dawn knives through cypress & pine, > casts slatted shadows over Depot Creek. > > He tightlines. > I eye a cork. > > > and the entire poem, congratulations Jeff! > > Anny > > > On Wed, Oct 13, 2010 at 8:44 PM, Jeff Newberry > wrote: > >> Following David Graham's lead, I want to point out that a new issue of >> Simmons Buntin's *Terrain.org: A Journal of the Built & Natural >> Environments *is live. Here's a good place to begin reading this fine >> issue: >> >> http://www.terrain.org/poetry/26/newberry.htm >> >> The issue is chock full of good writing. Check it out. >> >> Best, >> Jeff Newberry >> >> -- >> You cannot tell people what to do, you can only tell them parables; and >> that is what art really is, particular stories of particular people and >> experience, from which each according to his own immediate and peculiar >> needs may draw his own conclusion. --W.H. Auden >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > > > -- > Anny Ballardini > http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ > http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome > http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 > http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html > I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing > star! > Friedrich Nietzsche > > ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique > vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? > Giovenale > From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Thu Oct 14 03:39:48 2010 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2010 09:39:48 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Terrain.org: TOOT In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hello Chris, so happy to hear from you and that you are on this list! Anny On Thu, Oct 14, 2010 at 8:56 AM, chris murray < chris.murray.bahrain at gmail.com> wrote: > Hello Everyone. Just a note to say I'm back in the US and glad to be > reading this list. > > Choosing this comment from Anny b/c I'm also finding the poem fine. > > Best Wishes, > > Chris Murray > > On 10/14/10, Anny Ballardini wrote: > > I love this opening: > > > > Dawn knives through cypress & pine, > > casts slatted shadows over Depot Creek. > > > > He tightlines. > > I eye a cork. > > > > > > and the entire poem, congratulations Jeff! > > > > Anny > > > > > > On Wed, Oct 13, 2010 at 8:44 PM, Jeff Newberry > > wrote: > > > >> Following David Graham's lead, I want to point out that a new issue of > >> Simmons Buntin's *Terrain.org: A Journal of the Built & Natural > >> Environments *is live. Here's a good place to begin reading this fine > >> issue: > >> > >> http://www.terrain.org/poetry/26/newberry.htm > >> > >> The issue is chock full of good writing. Check it out. > >> > >> Best, > >> Jeff Newberry > >> > >> -- > >> You cannot tell people what to do, you can only tell them parables; and > >> that is what art really is, particular stories of particular people and > >> experience, from which each according to his own immediate and peculiar > >> needs may draw his own conclusion. --W.H. Auden > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> New-Poetry mailing list > >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > >> > >> > > > > > > -- > > Anny Ballardini > > http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ > > http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome > > http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 > > http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html > > I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing > > star! > > Friedrich Nietzsche > > > > ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique > > vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? > > Giovenale > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Thu Oct 14 07:20:08 2010 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2010 06:20:08 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] "The Crisis of the Humanities Officially Arrives" In-Reply-To: <985197.50814.qm@web120520.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <492476.23725.qm@web55203.mail.re4.yahoo.com><919323.35378.qm@web83304.mail.sp1.yahoo.com><9C085990BB404D5C9639C7171732981C@OwnerPC><4CB6750E.7080609@nut-n-but.net> <985197.50814.qm@web120520.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4CB6E768.9070207@nut-n-but.net> On 10/13/2010 9:23 PM, John Jeffrey wrote: > > "a boring whine...about his fields not being thrown as much money as > he thinks it should be" > > Hmmm, this whine sounds very familiar. Where else have I heard > someone complain about his field not being recognized before? Why, from me, of course. And the parallel is exact. I'm on food stamps and Fish is making what? Several hundred thousand dollars a year? In a field full of submediocrities making that much whereas Fish alone makes more than all the people in my field combined. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Thu Oct 14 07:24:06 2010 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2010 06:24:06 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] "The Crisis of the Humanities Officially Arrives" In-Reply-To: <6494E7EC8FAA42F4A650E8B96CFBC2CB@OwnerPC> References: <492476.23725.qm@web55203.mail.re4.yahoo.com><919323.35378.qm@web83304.mail.sp1.yahoo.com><9C085990BB404D5C9639C7171732981C@OwnerPC><4CB6750E.7080609@nut-n-but.net> <6494E7EC8FAA42F4A650E8B96CFBC2CB@OwnerPC> Message-ID: <4CB6E856.8090501@nut-n-but.net> > And at least he's honest in that the bottom line is that it's a > /professional/ discipline. I don't entirely go with Fish here, as > when he was outraged by the Sokal Case for weirdly strange reasons, > but hey, that's how how sees it. Weirdly strange?! He was outraged by a parody of exactly the kind of relativistic crap that made him famous?! > And lots left open (as he flags the case for a stronger defense of > humanities without making it in the article itself, but hey, he's > writing an op-ed piece for the Times, not a scholar;y article in > /Everyperson's Journal of Specialist/ /Philosophy/). > And he doesn't treat the humanities as a homogenous block -- > "humanities indoctrination" -- but specifies the particular areas > getting axed in this instance, which is refreshing. (Mark rightly > points to the necessity for a teaching structure for French and German > in another post.) > Frankly, I'd guess creative writing courses would be the last to go, > since they're cheap to run and easy to recruit for and don't require > much plant and equipment, and ... So no worries there. For better or > worse. > Robin > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Thu Oct 14 11:36:41 2010 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2010 10:36:41 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] "The Crisis of the Humanities Officially Arrives" In-Reply-To: <6494E7EC8FAA42F4A650E8B96CFBC2CB@OwnerPC> References: <492476.23725.qm@web55203.mail.re4.yahoo.com><919323.35378.qm@web83304.mail.sp1.yahoo.com><9C085990BB404D5C9639C7171732981C@OwnerPC><4CB6750E.7080609@nut-n-but.net> <6494E7EC8FAA42F4A650E8B96CFBC2CB@OwnerPC> Message-ID: <4CB72389.6020206@nut-n-but.net> A minor clarification of my position, hitherto slightly too hyperbolically stated: I think the teaching of languages something all colleges should do more of--because so much of it is rote learning that having a trainer pushing you helps with and because pronunciation is hard to learn by reading a book, and because conversation in the language to be learned is so helpful. I am in favor of survey courses in all the humanties although they aren't necessary, life being a survey course in the humanities that those innately destined to need humanities will get all they need from. Such courses are innocuous, though, and can be fun, and even quite helpful. Just about all the rest can be taken care of by a good library (and, now, the Internet) and a few intelligent friends plus an innate desire/need to enlarge one's culture--with private tutors certain to be around to help on details (as when I got the help once when teaching myself to play the piano and a friend sat down and showed me how I should be playing, and I understood immediately something I probably would have worked out on my own but possibly not for weeks). Science professors are constantly whining about needing more money, too, one should remember. The real problem is that the people paying, ultimately, have no say in the distribution of funds. Hence, I'd like to see formal education privatized. Then it wouldn't be sub-mediocrities arguing about what programs to fund with the tax-money they steal, but competing with one another for money from people wanting their product. But that, of course, is 600% unlikely. Formal education is certified to be Good by the morons in power, so it must be forced on all of us whether we want it or not, at his expense. And all the little suggestibles will want it, so will go along with forcing it on those so screwed up as to not share their opinion. --Bob From halvard at gmail.com Thu Oct 14 16:22:32 2010 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2010 15:22:32 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Mainly Black Message-ID: *Mainly Black * from Vida Loca Books https://docs.google.com/document/d/1i_JGJ_FqQldEnUq7cwjV8giYykz_tsGbTkC2EkAP3IM/edit?hl=en Hal Serving the tri-state area. Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home *Mainly Black , **Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ;* *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; * ***Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; * ***G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; * *Transparencies & Projections * -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd at ripon.edu Thu Oct 14 16:55:44 2010 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2010 15:55:44 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Toot In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On 10/14/10 1:17 AM, "Anny Ballardini" wrote: > I am referring to the following: > So: ?Whitman over Poe every time. . . . > > for me it is the other way round, but my father would be with you, and that is > also why I love my father. =================== And *that* is why, dear Anny, you are much loved around these parts! -- ==================================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.me.com/drjazz/ Poetry Library: http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ==================================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tad at opus40.org Thu Oct 14 18:41:49 2010 From: tad at opus40.org (Tad Richards) Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2010 18:41:49 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Terrain.org: TOOT In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Very cool, Jeff. On Thu, Oct 14, 2010 at 3:39 AM, Anny Ballardini wrote: > Hello Chris, so happy to hear from you and that you are on this list! > Anny > > > On Thu, Oct 14, 2010 at 8:56 AM, chris murray < > chris.murray.bahrain at gmail.com> wrote: > >> Hello Everyone. Just a note to say I'm back in the US and glad to be >> reading this list. >> >> Choosing this comment from Anny b/c I'm also finding the poem fine. >> >> Best Wishes, >> >> Chris Murray >> >> On 10/14/10, Anny Ballardini wrote: >> > I love this opening: >> > >> > Dawn knives through cypress & pine, >> > casts slatted shadows over Depot Creek. >> > >> > He tightlines. >> > I eye a cork. >> > >> > >> > and the entire poem, congratulations Jeff! >> > >> > Anny >> > >> > >> > On Wed, Oct 13, 2010 at 8:44 PM, Jeff Newberry >> > wrote: >> > >> >> Following David Graham's lead, I want to point out that a new issue of >> >> Simmons Buntin's *Terrain.org: A Journal of the Built & Natural >> >> Environments *is live. Here's a good place to begin reading this fine >> >> issue: >> >> >> >> http://www.terrain.org/poetry/26/newberry.htm >> >> >> >> The issue is chock full of good writing. Check it out. >> >> >> >> Best, >> >> Jeff Newberry >> >> >> >> -- >> >> You cannot tell people what to do, you can only tell them parables; and >> >> that is what art really is, particular stories of particular people and >> >> experience, from which each according to his own immediate and peculiar >> >> needs may draw his own conclusion. --W.H. Auden >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> New-Poetry mailing list >> >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> >> >> >> > >> > >> > -- >> > Anny Ballardini >> > http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ >> > http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome >> > http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 >> > http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html >> > I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing >> > star! >> > Friedrich Nietzsche >> > >> > ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique >> > vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? >> > Giovenale >> > >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> > > > > -- > Anny Ballardini > http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ > http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome > http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 > http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html > I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing > star! > Friedrich Nietzsche > > ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique > vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? > Giovenale > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From junction at earthlink.net Thu Oct 14 18:01:38 2010 From: junction at earthlink.net (Mark Weiss) Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2010 18:01:38 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] "The Crisis of the Humanities Officially Arrives" In-Reply-To: <4CB72389.6020206@nut-n-but.net> References: <492476.23725.qm@web55203.mail.re4.yahoo.com> <919323.35378.qm@web83304.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <9C085990BB404D5C9639C7171732981C@OwnerPC> <4CB6750E.7080609@nut-n-but.net> <6494E7EC8FAA42F4A650E8B96CFBC2CB@OwnerPC> <4CB72389.6020206@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: Something like 17% of higher education in the US is privatized, in the sense of for profit, and a great deal more (don't have th figures) is private not-for-profit (like the Ivy Leagues as just an example). All receive government funds of different types--from research grants, for example. The profit-making schools (U of Phoenix, for one) are unabashedly selling career and class advancement, but doing a terrible job at a very high price--enormous dropout rates, enormous defaulting on student loan rates, acording to a recent article in the Times summarizing a recent study.. At 11:36 AM 10/14/2010, you wrote: > A minor clarification of my position, hitherto > slightly too hyperbolically stated: > >I think the teaching of languages something all >colleges should do more of--because so much of >it is rote learning that having a trainer >pushing you helps with and because pronunciation >is hard to learn by reading a book, and because >conversation in the language to be learned is so >helpful. I am in favor of survey courses in all >the humanties although they aren't necessary, >life being a survey course in the humanities >that those innately destined to need humanities will get all they need from. >Such courses are innocuous, though, and can be >fun, and even quite helpful. Just about all the >rest can be taken care of by a good library >(and, now, the Internet) and a few intelligent >friends plus an innate desire/need to enlarge >one's culture--with private tutors certain to be >around to help on details (as when I got the >help once when teaching myself to play the piano >and a friend sat down and showed me how I should >be playing, and I understood immediately >something I probably would have worked out on my >own but possibly not for weeks). > >Science professors are constantly whining about >needing more money, too, one should >remember. The real problem is that the people >paying, ultimately, have no say in the >distribution of funds. Hence, I'd like to see >formal education privatized. Then it wouldn't >be sub-mediocrities arguing about what programs >to fund with the tax-money they steal, but >competing with one another for money from people >wanting their product. But that, of course, is >600% unlikely. Formal education is certified to >be Good by the morons in power, so it must be >forced on all of us whether we want it or not, >at his expense. And all the little suggestibles >will want it, so will go along with forcing it >on those so screwed up as to not share their opinion. > >--Bob >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry New from Chax Press: Mark Weiss, As Landscape. $16. Order from http://www.chax.org/poets/weiss.htm "What a beautiful set of circumstances! What a lovely concatenation of particulars. Here is the poet alive in every sense of the word, and through every one of his senses. Instead of missing a beat or a part, Weiss? fragments are like Chekhov?s short stories?the more that gets left out, the more they seem to contain One can hear echoes from all the various ancestors...[but] the voice, at its center, its core, is pure Mark Weiss. His use of the fragment is both elegant and bafflingly clear, a pure musical threnody [it] opens a window, not only into a mind, but a person, a personality, this human figure at the emotional center of the poem." M.G. Stephens, in Jacket. http://jacketmagazine.com/40/r-weiss-rb-stephens.shtml -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Thu Oct 14 20:43:57 2010 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2010 19:43:57 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] "The Crisis of the Humanities Officially Arrives" In-Reply-To: References: <492476.23725.qm@web55203.mail.re4.yahoo.com><919323.35378.qm@web83304.mail.sp1.yahoo.com><9C085990BB404D5C9639C7171732981C@OwnerPC><4CB6750E.7080609@nut-n-but.net><6494E7EC8FAA42F4A650E8B 96CFBC2CB@OwnerPC><4CB72389.6020206@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <4CB7A3CD.6040301@nut-n-but.net> On 10/14/2010 5:01 PM, Mark Weiss wrote: > Something like 17% of higher education in the US is privatized, in the > sense of for profit, Right, but pretty much run by the government, sets the rules. > and a great deal more (don't have th figures) is private > not-for-profit (like the Ivy Leagues as just an example). All receive > government funds of different types--from research grants, for > example. The profit-making schools (U of Phoenix, for one) are > unabashedly selling career and class advancement, but doing a terrible > job at a very high price--enormous dropout rates, enormous defaulting > on student loan rates, acording to a recent article in the Times > summarizing a recent study. I'm against government subsidies, but since we can't avoid them, one I'd like to see would be a full-scale neurophysiology-based study of epistemology to determine just how people learn. It'd be interesting to see the results of a long-term study of a million or more people from birth to the age of fifty and try to analyze why some turn out well by their own standards and some don't, and why some turn out well by society's standards and some don't. I doubt that such a study would be feasible, or could cover all the variables that it'd have to, not to mention how politicians out for votes would allow any of the inevitably anti-egalitarian results to be widely known, much less acted upon by educational institutes. (I just read somewhere that some study showed that home-taught kids come out between the sixtieth percentile and eightieth percentile on the SATs--or whatever the main test is, the idea being that the home-taught have better educations than the publicly-taught, the possibility that smart people prefer home-teaching for their kids, who do better because of their genes, not their formal education, is not considered.) --Bob From junction at earthlink.net Thu Oct 14 22:10:19 2010 From: junction at earthlink.net (Mark Weiss) Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2010 22:10:19 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] "The Crisis of the Humanities Officially Arrives" In-Reply-To: <4CB7A3CD.6040301@nut-n-but.net> References: <492476.23725.qm@web55203.mail.re4.yahoo.com> <919323.35378.qm@web83304.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <9C085990BB404D5C9639C7171732981C@OwnerPC> <4CB6750E.7080609@nut-n-but.net> <6494E7EC8FAA42F4A650E8B 96CFBC2CB@OwnerPC> <4CB72389.6020206@nut-n-but.net> <4CB7A3CD.6040301@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: > >I'm against government subsidies, but since we >can't avoid them, one I'd like to see would be a >full-scale neurophysiology-based study of >epistemology to determine just how people >learn. It'd be interesting to see the results >of a long-term study of a million or more people >from birth to the age of fifty and try to >analyze why some turn out well by their own >standards and some don't, and why some turn out >well by society's standards and some don't. I >doubt that such a study would be feasible, or >could cover all the variables that it'd have to, >not to mention how politicians out for votes >would allow any of the inevitably >anti-egalitarian results to be widely known, >much less acted upon by educational institutes. It's not always subsidies. A lot of grants are fees for service. Much of the basic research and engineering that the government buys is performed by universities. There's a lot of research on how people learn. Turns out there's more than one way. No surprise there. And of course a lot of variables, as you say. Your idea for a grand fifty year study has a bunch of fatal flaws, not least that studying why someone "turns out well by society's standards" would certainly influence the behavior of those being studied. And the there's the question of what that criterion means. Do poets qualify as that kind of success? Does Donald Trump? Are there maybe a whole lot of different answers? >(I just read somewhere that some study showed >that home-taught kids come out between the >sixtieth percentile and eightieth percentile on >the SATs--or whatever the main test is, the idea >being that the home-taught have better >educations than the publicly-taught, the >possibility that smart people prefer >home-teaching for their kids, who do better >because of their genes, not their formal education, is not considered.) > >--Bob Aghain, a bunch of variables. Home schoolers come in basically two varieties, religious types who want to protect their children from sin in the form of, among other things, much of science, and highly educated folks likely to have lots of books in the house who have an income sufficient to allow one parent to stay home. All that attention may be good for a kid (except when it's not), but also the level of accomplishment of the parents is likely a factor in the children's school success (or at least their success at standardiized tests). I'd be willing to bet that no matter how educated children of the educated and professional do better than average, perhaps as well as the home educated of the same class, and that the home-schooled fundamentalist kids don't do as well. But I'm not sure what you're advocating. Rousseauian education? >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry New from Chax Press: Mark Weiss, As Landscape. $16. Order from http://www.chax.org/poets/weiss.htm "What a beautiful set of circumstances! What a lovely concatenation of particulars. Here is the poet alive in every sense of the word, and through every one of his senses. Instead of missing a beat or a part, Weiss? fragments are like Chekhov?s short stories?the more that gets left out, the more they seem to contain One can hear echoes from all the various ancestors...[but] the voice, at its center, its core, is pure Mark Weiss. His use of the fragment is both elegant and bafflingly clear, a pure musical threnody [it] opens a window, not only into a mind, but a person, a personality, this human figure at the emotional center of the poem." M.G. Stephens, in Jacket. http://jacketmagazine.com/40/r-weiss-rb-stephens.shtml -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From amyhappens at yahoo.com Thu Oct 14 22:51:36 2010 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king) Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2010 19:51:36 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] ATLANTA - FRIDAY AND SATURDAY (QUEER FESTIVAL) Message-ID: <225955.27975.qm@web83307.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> FRIDAY, OCTOBER 15 2:00 - 5:00 p.m. Emory University Reading Barnes & Noble/Emory Bookstore, 1390 Oxford Road Featuring Amy King, Ana Bo?i?evi?, Cary Alan Johnson and Elliott Mackle 7:30 p.m. Keynote Address Auburn Avenue Research Library, 101 Auburn Ave. Featuring Ana Bo?i?evi? and Cary Alan Johnson, plus reading/presentation to for the Broadside Contest Winner, Ed Madden. SATURDAY, OCTOBER 16 10 a.m. - 5 p.m. Decatur Library Auditorium and Meeting Room, 215 Sycamore St. Noon to 1 p.m. Poetry Amy King & Megan Volpert AUDITORIUM http://atlqueerlitfest.blogspot.com/p/2010-schedule.html ******** Now That's WAC + http://wearechampion.blogspot.com/2010/08/amy-king.html Amy's Alias + http://amyking.org/ ******** -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Fri Oct 15 00:25:10 2010 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2010 23:25:10 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] "The Crisis of the Humanities Officially Arrives" In-Reply-To: References: <492476.23725.qm@web55203.mail.re4.yahoo.com><919323.35378.qm@web83304.mail.sp1.yahoo.com><9C085990BB404D5C9639C7171732981C@OwnerPC><4CB6750E.7080609@nut-n-but.net><6494E7EC8FAA42F4A650E8B 96CFBC2CB@OwnerPC><4CB72389.6020206@nut-n-but.net><4CB7A3CD.6040301@nut- n-but.net> Message-ID: <4CB7D7A6.6020608@nut-n-but.net> On 10/14/2010 9:10 PM, Mark Weiss wrote: >> >> I'm against government subsidies, but since we can't avoid them, one >> I'd like to see would be a full-scale neurophysiology-based study of >> epistemology to determine just how people learn. It'd be interesting >> to see the results of a long-term study of a million or more people >> from birth to the age of fifty and try to analyze why some turn out >> well by their own standards and some don't, and why some turn out >> well by society's standards and some don't. I doubt that such a >> study would be feasible, or could cover all the variables that it'd >> have to, not to mention how politicians out for votes would allow any >> of the inevitably anti-egalitarian results to be widely known, much >> less acted upon by educational institutes. > > It's not always subsidies. A lot of grants are fees for service. Much > of the basic research and engineering that the government buys is > performed by universities. Right. But I would consider the part of a university that is research and development for the government (and stifled in many ways by that, the government dictating hiring and firing practices, for instance) outside the university as educational institute. > > There's a lot of research on how people learn. Turns out there's more > than one way. No surprise there. And of course a lot of variables, as > you say. Not neurophysiologically-based, and extremely undeveloped from what I've read of it. But, yes, many different ways of learning, as simple school-teachers could have told us, and did, a century or more ago. You know, I don't even think the "learning" the psychologists write about has a proper definition. > > Your idea for a grand fifty year study has a bunch of fatal flaws, not > least that studying why someone "turns out well by society's > standards" would certainly influence the behavior of those being studied. You wouldn't tell them they were being studied. > And the there's the question of what that criterion means. Do poets > qualify as that kind of success? Does Donald Trump? Are there maybe a > whole lot of different answers? I think defining what I'd call socio-economic success would be easy. Amount of money made and kept. Other forms of "objective success" could be determined. ("Subjective" success being any person's belief that he'd had or was having a good life.) Lifetime socio-cultural success would be exactly what it is now: awards won, number and size of mentions by critics, etc. Permanent socio-cultural success would be measured fifty or a hundred years after the person being rated died by his importance in reference books, number of statues, buildings and parks named after him, etc. Certainly you'd miss people, but them's the breaks. Certainly, too, there would be disagreements, and constant discussion of definitions. For instance, about just how important some perhaps bad poet was because he added something of huge importance to the poet's tool kit. Or you could make a computer program based on me that would rate everything. Seriously, I think some kind of computer programs could take care of a lot of this. Without anymore dissension than rating processes suffer now. It'd be ridiculously better a guide than percentage of students that get college degrees, which seems the main way of measuring an educational system now. > > >> (I just read somewhere that some study showed that home-taught kids >> come out between the sixtieth percentile and eightieth percentile on >> the SATs--or whatever the main test is, the idea being that the >> home-taught have better educations than the publicly-taught, the >> possibility that smart people prefer home-teaching for their kids, >> who do better because of their genes, not their formal education, is >> not considered.) >> >> --Bob > > > Aghain, a bunch of variables. Home schoolers come in basically two > varieties, religious types who want to protect their children from sin > in the form of, among other things, much of science, and highly > educated folks likely to have lots of books in the house who have an > income sufficient to allow one parent to stay home. All that attention > may be good for a kid (except when it's not), but also the level of > accomplishment of the parents is likely a factor in the children's > school success (or at least their success at standardiized tests). I'd > be willing to bet that no matter how educated children of the educated > and professional do better than average, perhaps as well as the home > educated of the same class, and that the home-schooled fundamentalist > kids don't do as well. > Yes, in my stumbling way, I was referring to this. I'm not sure about the level of the fundamentalists. I guest taught a few classes of them and they caught on to visual poetry much better than adults I've had workshops for. I had them create their own poems, and had trouble interpreting some because Jesus was important in them, and I fear I wasn't looking for Him. But they did very well by Him. I think many of them are innately very focused, and effective at narrow kinds of thinking. They have strong character, which is necessary for resisting secularism. They, indeed, may have just the right kind of mind to pick up the kind of learning that makes for high SATs. I think you're probably right that they won't outscore home taught children of professionals, but I'd be surprised if they didn't outscore public school kids. My problem with the statistic is that I think percentage of highly superior adults a kind of education seems to result in is much more important than the average level of adult achievment it seems to produce. If schools really made a difference, I'd prefer a school that turned out one genius a year and 99 people four levels of ability below genius, than a school that turned out one genius every twenty years, and 1999 people two levels below genius. Although, sure, a balance between schools turning out a mix of superior and decidedly non-superior people and those turning out mostly highly competent mediocrities and no geniuses would probably be best. > But I'm not sure what you're advocating. Rousseauian education? Possibly a less simple-minded version than that (as I inexpertly understand it). I believe in strong parental guidance for the first years of a child's life, followed by a kind of schooling not compulsory but generally voluntarily accepted by most parents. I would want games made that provided learning experiences but were fun. And competitions. And lots of dedicated teachers to lead a child to information the child wanted, and to advice the child could take or leave. I'd like to give apprenticeships a try, too--make them, and jobs, available to children who qualified, which would make a kid learn things voluntarily that he didn't like learning because he knew he couldn't become an apprentice sheriff without it. I would abolish all legally-required licensing, replacing it with privately sold licensing one would have to qualify for. So anyone could practice brain surgery, but there would be surgeons licensed by Good Housekeeping Magazine who couldn't get their licenses without having the education and training doctors have now. But there should also be people calling themselves brain surgeons who got licenses based on their competence rather than on their credentials. Malpractice, unless intentional, would not be illegal, but insurance companies would keep track of poor doctors and refuse to cover someone using one of them. It's be buyer beware, but with lots of help--like the help more and more available on the Internet. Etc. It'll all be in the book I plan to write if I live to be 120. The first thing that would go if I were In Charge would be businesses requiring an employee to have a college degree. Force companies to learn how to tell those who would make good employees from those who would not. Maybe even run their own colleges--come work for us, but understand you have to first get the equivalent of a BS from our (unlicensed) school. Etc. Or did I say that already? --Bob From junction at earthlink.net Fri Oct 15 00:32:46 2010 From: junction at earthlink.net (Mark Weiss) Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2010 00:32:46 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] "The Crisis of the Humanities Officially Arrives" In-Reply-To: <4CB7D7A6.6020608@nut-n-but.net> References: <492476.23725.qm@web55203.mail.re4.yahoo.com> <919323.35378.qm@web83304.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <9C085990BB404D5C9639C7171732981C@OwnerPC> <4CB6750E.7080609@nut-n-but.net> <6494E7EC8FAA42F4A650E8B 96CFBC2CB@OwnerPC> <4CB72389.6020206@nut-n-but.net> <4CB7A3CD.6040301@nut- n-but.net> <4CB7D7A6.6020608@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: Sorry, I got stuck on figuring out how you plan to monitor brain function without the study subjects knowing it was happening. But you seem to have invented the Steiner schools along the way. At 12:25 AM 10/15/2010, you wrote: > On 10/14/2010 9:10 PM, Mark Weiss wrote: >>> >>>I'm against government subsidies, but since we >>>can't avoid them, one I'd like to see would be >>>a full-scale neurophysiology-based study of >>>epistemology to determine just how people >>>learn. It'd be interesting to see the results >>>of a long-term study of a million or more >>>people from birth to the age of fifty and try >>>to analyze why some turn out well by their own >>>standards and some don't, and why some turn >>>out well by society's standards and some >>>don't. I doubt that such a study would be >>>feasible, or could cover all the variables >>>that it'd have to, not to mention how >>>politicians out for votes would allow any of >>>the inevitably anti-egalitarian results to be >>>widely known, much less acted upon by educational institutes. >> >>It's not always subsidies. A lot of grants are >>fees for service. Much of the basic research >>and engineering that the government buys is performed by universities. > >Right. But I would consider the part of a >university that is research and development for >the government (and stifled in many ways by >that, the government dictating hiring and firing >practices, for instance) outside the university as educational institute. >> >>There's a lot of research on how people learn. >>Turns out there's more than one way. No >>surprise there. And of course a lot of variables, as you say. > >Not neurophysiologically-based, and extremely >undeveloped from what I've read of it. But, >yes, many different ways of learning, as simple >school-teachers could have told us, and did, a century or more ago. >You know, I don't even think the "learning" the >psychologists write about has a proper definition. > > >> >>Your idea for a grand fifty year study has a >>bunch of fatal flaws, not least that studying >>why someone "turns out well by society's >>standards" would certainly influence the behavior of those being studied. > >You wouldn't tell them they were being studied. > >>And the there's the question of what that >>criterion means. Do poets qualify as that kind >>of success? Does Donald Trump? Are there maybe >>a whole lot of different answers? >I think defining what I'd call socio-economic success would be easy. >Amount of money made and kept. Other forms of >"objective success" could be >determined. ("Subjective" success being any >person's belief that he'd had or was having a >good life.) Lifetime socio-cultural success >would be exactly what it is now: awards won, >number and size of mentions by critics, >etc. Permanent socio-cultural success would be >measured fifty or a hundred years after the >person being rated died by his importance in >reference books, number of statues, buildings >and parks named after him, etc. Certainly you'd >miss people, but them's the breaks. Certainly, >too, there would be disagreements, and constant >discussion of definitions. For instance, about >just how important some perhaps bad poet was >because he added something of huge importance to the poet's tool kit. > >Or you could make a computer program based on me >that would rate everything. Seriously, I think >some kind of computer programs could take care >of a lot of this. Without anymore dissension than rating processes suffer now. > >It'd be ridiculously better a guide than >percentage of students that get college degrees, >which seems the main way of measuring an educational system now. > >> >> >>>(I just read somewhere that some study showed >>>that home-taught kids come out between the >>>sixtieth percentile and eightieth percentile >>>on the SATs--or whatever the main test is, the >>>idea being that the home-taught have better >>>educations than the publicly-taught, the >>>possibility that smart people prefer >>>home-teaching for their kids, who do better >>>because of their genes, not their formal education, is not considered.) >>> >>>--Bob >> >> >>Aghain, a bunch of variables. Home schoolers >>come in basically two varieties, religious >>types who want to protect their children from >>sin in the form of, among other things, much of >>science, and highly educated folks likely to >>have lots of books in the house who have an >>income sufficient to allow one parent to stay >>home. All that attention may be good for a kid >>(except when it's not), but also the level of >>accomplishment of the parents is likely a >>factor in the children's school success (or at >>least their success at standardiized tests). >>I'd be willing to bet that no matter how >>educated children of the educated and >>professional do better than average, perhaps as >>well as the home educated of the same class, >>and that the home-schooled fundamentalist kids don't do as well. >Yes, in my stumbling way, I was referring to >this. I'm not sure about the level of the >fundamentalists. I guest taught a few classes >of them and they caught on to visual poetry much >better than adults I've had workshops for. I >had them create their own poems, and had trouble >interpreting some because Jesus was important in >them, and I fear I wasn't looking for Him. But >they did very well by Him. I think many of them >are innately very focused, and effective at >narrow kinds of thinking. They have strong >character, which is necessary for resisting >secularism. They, indeed, may have just the >right kind of mind to pick up the kind of >learning that makes for high SATs. I think >you're probably right that they won't outscore >home taught children of professionals, but I'd >be surprised if they didn't outscore public school kids. > >My problem with the statistic is that I think >percentage of highly superior adults a kind of >education seems to result in is much more >important than the average level of adult >achievment it seems to produce. If schools >really made a difference, I'd prefer a school >that turned out one genius a year and 99 people >four levels of ability below genius, than a >school that turned out one genius every twenty >years, and 1999 people two levels below >genius. Although, sure, a balance between >schools turning out a mix of superior and >decidedly non-superior people and those turning >out mostly highly competent mediocrities and no >geniuses would probably be best. > >>But I'm not sure what you're advocating. Rousseauian education? > >Possibly a less simple-minded version than that >(as I inexpertly understand it). I believe in >strong parental guidance for the first years of >a child's life, followed by a kind of schooling >not compulsory but generally voluntarily >accepted by most parents. I would want games >made that provided learning experiences but were >fun. And competitions. And lots of dedicated >teachers to lead a child to information the >child wanted, and to advice the child could take >or leave. I'd like to give apprenticeships a >try, too--make them, and jobs, available to >children who qualified, which would make a kid >learn things voluntarily that he didn't like >learning because he knew he couldn't become an apprentice sheriff without it. > >I would abolish all legally-required licensing, >replacing it with privately sold licensing one >would have to qualify for. So anyone could >practice brain surgery, but there would be >surgeons licensed by Good Housekeeping Magazine >who couldn't get their licenses without having >the education and training doctors have >now. But there should also be people calling >themselves brain surgeons who got licenses based >on their competence rather than on their credentials. > >Malpractice, unless intentional, would not be >illegal, but insurance companies would keep >track of poor doctors and refuse to cover >someone using one of them. It's be buyer >beware, but with lots of help--like the help >more and more available on the Internet. > >Etc. It'll all be in the book I plan to write if I live to be 120. > >The first thing that would go if I were In >Charge would be businesses requiring an employee >to have a college degree. Force companies to >learn how to tell those who would make good >employees from those who would not. Maybe even >run their own colleges--come work for us, but >understand you have to first get the equivalent >of a BS from our (unlicensed) school. > >Etc. Or did I say that already? > >--Bob > >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry New from Chax Press: Mark Weiss, As Landscape. $16. Order from http://www.chax.org/poets/weiss.htm "What a beautiful set of circumstances! What a lovely concatenation of particulars. Here is the poet alive in every sense of the word, and through every one of his senses. Instead of missing a beat or a part, Weiss? fragments are like Chekhov?s short stories?the more that gets left out, the more they seem to contain One can hear echoes from all the various ancestors...[but] the voice, at its center, its core, is pure Mark Weiss. His use of the fragment is both elegant and bafflingly clear, a pure musical threnody [it] opens a window, not only into a mind, but a person, a personality, this human figure at the emotional center of the poem." M.G. Stephens, in Jacket. http://jacketmagazine.com/40/r-weiss-rb-stephens.shtml -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Fri Oct 15 03:50:04 2010 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2010 02:50:04 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] "The Crisis of the Humanities Officially Arrives" In-Reply-To: References: <492476.23725.qm@web55203.mail.re4.yahoo.com><919323.35378.qm@web83304.mail.sp1.yahoo.com><9C085990BB404D5C9639C7171732981C@OwnerPC><4CB6750E.7080609@nut-n-but.net><6494E7EC8FAA42F4A650E8B 96CFBC2CB@OwnerPC><4CB72389.6020206@nut-n-but.net><4CB7A3CD.6040301@nut- n-but.net><4CB7D7A6.6020608@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <4CB807AC.4060201@nut-n-but.net> On 10/14/2010 11:32 PM, Mark Weiss wrote: > Sorry, I got stuck on figuring out how you plan to monitor brain > function without the study subjects knowing it was happening. I was speaking of following careers without the subjects knowing it was happening. Figuring out epistemology neurophysiologically would be something different, although it'd be easy enough to include that in the lifetime monitoring by making it something standard in annual medical check-ups. Or even telling the subjects you were doing brain research on them but not telling them you were also determining their social success. > > But you seem to have invented the Steiner schools along the way. I never claimed to be inventing anything, but glad you could find an easy way to show me up. From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Fri Oct 15 03:32:49 2010 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2010 09:32:49 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Bi-polarity and depression treated with magnets Message-ID: http://www.newswise.com/articles/magnets-used-to-treat-patients-with-severe-depression?ret=/articles/list&category=latest&page=1&search[status]=3&search[sort]=date+desc&search[has_multimedia]= -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From editor at eratiopostmodernpoetry.com Fri Oct 15 09:15:17 2010 From: editor at eratiopostmodernpoetry.com (=?iso-8859-1?Q?e=B7ratio?=) Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2010 09:15:17 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Review of Strange Is Normal The Amazing Life of Colin Wilson Message-ID: <6c6f6d02aecd0eac2c9ded8abd3dc710.squirrel@webmail4.web.com> e? Don't know if any of you guys are into Colin Wilson but I'm certain you all have heard of him and know of The Outsider. A fascinating hour-and-a-half. http://eratio.blogspot.com/2010/10/review-of-strange-is-normal-amazing.html This feature-length documentary interview is nothing less than a super-up-close-and-personal visit with the legendary author and philosopher, Colin Wilson. Superbly conducted by the scholar Dennis Price we are given what seems total access to the Wilson domain, and total access to the phenomenal range of Wilson?s intellectual activities. e? From orpheecd at yahoo.com Fri Oct 15 11:56:02 2010 From: orpheecd at yahoo.com (orphee) Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2010 08:56:02 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] the poor poet and a poem In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <865152.35540.qm@web33303.mail.mud.yahoo.com> " while I battle hornworm and obsess over still green tomatoes" __ "neat rows of muscular zucchini, tanned, hard peaches,see an angular labyrinth of my own design' Sounds like the itemizing of a subjectivity that eats too much and is busting with sentimental gluttony. ________________________________ From: Anny Ballardini To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &, Views" Sent: Thu, October 14, 2010 2:30:38 AM Subject: [New-Poetry] the poor poet and a poem http://christophervolpe.blogspot.com/2010/10/spitzweg-poor-poet.html -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From orpheecd at yahoo.com Fri Oct 15 11:58:55 2010 From: orpheecd at yahoo.com (orphee) Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2010 08:58:55 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Toot In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <832099.83522.qm@web33306.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I dont agree with this sort of spotting I say Whitman and Poe. Beside each other. And loving one's daddy is neither here nor there. Poetry has no fathers. Filial piety has its place, but it's not the measure of what constitutes the value of poetry. Cheers ________________________________ From: David Graham To: NewPoetry Sent: Thu, October 14, 2010 4:55:44 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Toot On 10/14/10 1:17 AM, "Anny Ballardini" wrote: I am referring to the following: >So: Whitman over Poe every time. . . . > >for me it is the other way round, but my father would be with you, and that is >also why I love my father. > >=================== And *that* is why, dear Anny, you are much loved around these parts! -- ==================================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.me.com/drjazz/ Poetry Library: http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ==================================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From orpheecd at yahoo.com Fri Oct 15 12:02:33 2010 From: orpheecd at yahoo.com (orphee) Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2010 09:02:33 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Terrain.org: TOOT In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <943251.74744.qm@web33301.mail.mud.yahoo.com> "Dawn knives through cypress & pine, casts slatted shadows over Depot Creek. He tightlines. I eye a cork." Dawn knives? eye a cork? creeks and depots? even from my foreign eye this sounds stitlted.! ________________________________ From: Anny Ballardini To: NewPoetry List Sent: Thu, October 14, 2010 2:10:29 AM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Terrain.org: TOOT I would also like to add that not only David Graham, but James Finnegan, too, bathes these waters, sometimes. On Thu, Oct 14, 2010 at 8:09 AM, Anny Ballardini wrote: I love this opening: > > >Dawn knives through cypress & pine, >casts slatted shadows over Depot Creek. >He tightlines. > I eye a cork. > > >and the entire poem, congratulations Jeff! >Anny > > > >On Wed, Oct 13, 2010 at 8:44 PM, Jeff Newberry wrote: > >Following David Graham's lead, I want to point out that a new issue of Simmons >Buntin's Terrain.org: A Journal of the Built & Natural Environments is live. >Here's a good place to begin reading this fine issue: >> >>http://www.terrain.org/poetry/26/newberry.htm >> >>The issue is chock full of good writing. Check it out. >> >>Best, >>Jeff Newberry >> >>-- >>You cannot tell people what to do, you can only tell them parables; and that is >>what art really is, particular stories of particular people and experience, from >>which each according to his own immediate and peculiar needs may draw his own >>conclusion. --W.H. Auden >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>New-Poetry mailing list >>New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > > >-- >Anny Ballardini >http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ >http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome >http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 >http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html >I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! >Friedrich Nietzsche > >? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique >vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? >Giovenale > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From orpheecd at yahoo.com Fri Oct 15 12:09:08 2010 From: orpheecd at yahoo.com (orphee) Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2010 09:09:08 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Terrain.org: TOOT In-Reply-To: <943251.74744.qm@web33301.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <943251.74744.qm@web33301.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <218435.72898.qm@web33307.mail.mud.yahoo.com> duh! stilted. ________________________________ From: orphee To: NewPoetry List Sent: Fri, October 15, 2010 12:02:33 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Terrain.org: TOOT "Dawn knives through cypress & pine, casts slatted shadows over Depot Creek. He tightlines. I eye a cork." Dawn knives? eye a cork? creeks and depots? even from my foreign eye this sounds stitlted.! ________________________________ From: Anny Ballardini To: NewPoetry List Sent: Thu, October 14, 2010 2:10:29 AM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Terrain.org: TOOT I would also like to add that not only David Graham, but James Finnegan, too, bathes these waters, sometimes. On Thu, Oct 14, 2010 at 8:09 AM, Anny Ballardini wrote: I love this opening: > > >Dawn knives through cypress & pine, >casts slatted shadows over Depot Creek. >He tightlines. > I eye a cork. > > >and the entire poem, congratulations Jeff! >Anny > > > >On Wed, Oct 13, 2010 at 8:44 PM, Jeff Newberry wrote: > >Following David Graham's lead, I want to point out that a new issue of Simmons >Buntin's Terrain.org: A Journal of the Built & Natural Environments is live. >Here's a good place to begin reading this fine issue: >> >>http://www.terrain.org/poetry/26/newberry.htm >> >>The issue is chock full of good writing. Check it out. >> >>Best, >>Jeff Newberry >> >>-- >>You cannot tell people what to do, you can only tell them parables; and that is >>what art really is, particular stories of particular people and experience, from >>which each according to his own immediate and peculiar needs may draw his own >>conclusion. --W.H. Auden >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>New-Poetry mailing list >>New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > > >-- >Anny Ballardini >http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ >http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome >http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 >http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html >I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! >Friedrich Nietzsche > >? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique >vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? >Giovenale > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Fri Oct 15 13:36:47 2010 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2010 12:36:47 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Toot In-Reply-To: <832099.83522.qm@web33306.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <832099.83522.qm@web33306.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4CB8912F.8000207@nut-n-but.net> On 10/15/2010 10:58 AM, orphee wrote: > I dont agree with this sort of spotting > > I say Whitman and Poe. Beside each other. And loving one's daddy is > neither here nor there. Poetry has no fathers. > Filial piety has its place, but it's not the measure of what > constitutes the value of poetry. Nor was it intended to be anything like that in the post you're referring to. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Fri Oct 15 14:23:47 2010 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2010 11:23:47 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] "The Crisis of the Humanities Officially Arrives" In-Reply-To: <919323.35378.qm@web83304.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <295088.85461.qm@web55206.mail.re4.yahoo.com> always glad to chime in with my pointless opinion, Amy. --- On Wed, 10/13/10, amy king wrote: From: amy king Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] "The Crisis of the Humanities Officially Arrives" To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Wednesday, October 13, 2010, 5:30 PM Another brilliant direct response. ?Thanks, Stephen, for the "enlightenment." ?We're all so edified. ? Bandwagon much? Amy ********Now That's WAC+?http://wearechampion.blogspot.com/2010/08/amy-king.html Amy's Alias+ http://amyking.org/?******** From: stephen russell To: NewPoetry List Sent: Wed, October 13, 2010 5:09:17 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] "The Crisis of the Humanities Officially Arrives" Couldn't help replying: It's a mystery how hacks the likes of Stanley Fish get their reps. Maybe they have mob connections. --- On Wed, 10/13/10, amy king wrote: > From: amy king > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] "The Crisis of the Humanities Officially Arrives" > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Date: Wednesday, October 13, 2010, 4:52 PM > Wow, thanks for clearing it all up, > Bob. > > On Wed Oct 13th, 2010 2:03 PM EDT Bob Grumman wrote: > > > On 10/13/2010 10:07 AM, amy king wrote: > >> Stanley Fish has been railing against what he > considers an inevitability for some time. > >> > >> > >> His latest regarding SUNY Albany may be of > interest - > > > >He's a nullosopher, so his views are worthless.? > As for the humanities, they're at their healthiest far > outside the university. > > > >--Bob > > > > > > ? ? ? > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > ? ? ? _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Fri Oct 15 16:43:02 2010 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2010 16:43:02 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Nat'l Book Award Finalists Message-ID: <8CD3AC0B23AF385-1D10-F9D@webmail-m009.sysops.aol.com> http://www.nationalbook.org/nba2010.html Kathleen Graber, The Eternal City (Princeton University Press) Terrance Hayes, Lighthead (Viking Penguin) James Richardson, By the Numbers (Copper Canyon Press) C.D. Wright, One with Others (Copper Canyon Press) Monica Youn, Ignatz (Four Way Books) -- Poetry Judges: Rae Armantrout, Cornelius Eady, Linda Gregerson, Jeffrey McDaniel, Brenda Shaughnessy -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Fri Oct 15 16:57:38 2010 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2010 16:57:38 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poet C.D. Wright is award finalist Message-ID: <8CD3AC2BC252E45-1D10-135F@webmail-m009.sysops.aol.com> Poet C.D. Wright is award finalist http://www.projo.com/books/content/Rhode-Wright-nomination-1017_10-17-10_8UKD80V_v9.34d82a.html 01:00 AM EDT on Sunday, October 17, 2010 Poet C.D. Wright, the Israel J. Kapstein Professor of English at Brown University, got word last week that she is one of five poetry finalists for the National Book Award ? nominated for a book she has yet to hold in her hands. The book on which the nomination is based, ?One With Others [a little book of her days],? is still two weeks away from publication. It is a mix of poetry and prose, centering around a racist incident in Wright?s home state of Arkansas. The National Book Award is one of the country?s oldest and highest literary honors. If Wright?s name is read when the winners are announced during the awards ceremony Nov. 17 in New York, it will be the second consecutive year a Brown professor takes home the prize in poetry, which consists of a check for $10,000 and a bronze statue: Keith Waldrop, Brooke Russell Astor Professor of Humanities, won last year for his book, ?Transcendental Studies: A Trilogy.? Wright, a former Rhode Island Poet Laureate, has published dozens of books of poetry and prose, including last year?s winner of the prestigious Griffin Poetry Award, ?Rising Falling Hovering.? Her nominated book, she says, began as an homage to a brilliant, self-educated literary friend in Arkansas during the 1960s, ?an anonymous woman with lots of children and no financial resourses,? with whom Wright maintained a friendship until she died a few years ago in New York City. Wright describes the work as her ?footnote to civil rights.? / -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Fri Oct 15 17:59:00 2010 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2010 17:59:00 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] "The Crisis of the Humanities Officially Arrives" In-Reply-To: <143469.74404.qm@web110508.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <8CD3ACB4CD1E89F-1D10-21C7@webmail-m009.sysops.aol.com> I work in business and not the academy. Looking at it from the outside, is it not possible that some consolidation in academic programs may be necessary from time to time? When the number of students/majors in a certain department dwindles, wouldn't it be logical to direct the remaining students to other institutions where there are adequate numbers of like students/majors enrolled? There must be hundreds of colleges/universities in New York state (public and private) with overlapping/duplicated programs/departments. And if for example the number of French majors falls to an unsustainable number, could not the 4 majors at school A join the 5 majors at school B? Or could not school A and school B split the salary of one professor? I may not understand the ramifications of losing a certain area within the humanities dept...but it seems the 'overall capacity' in the 'larger system' of colleges and universities is still there and it's not as though the specialty disciplines cannot be accessed. And with certain technologies (e.g. webinars) it may be easier to consolidate small, disparate specialties. Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: Gregg Murray To: NewPoetry List Sent: Wed, Oct 13, 2010 5:13 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] "The Crisis of the Humanities Officially Arrives" I think Fish's article raises valid concerns about the "business" model of the university. The story is, of course, that SUNY Albany's president is, essentially, a CEO. Rather than being able/going to bat for the disciplines under his care, he is asked to cut costs. Unfortunately, this once might have required a university president to reflect on the value of a liberal arts education, something done more easily by someone with a liberal arts education, a Ph.D., and background as a professor in that institution. Fish notes that this man does not have such a background. He thinks that it's better to cut "useless" programs in the face of fewer resources. Rather than indulging in one-line, emotional responses, I think humanities professionals need to continue articulating the value of their respective fields. Rather than surrender universities as sites of art discrimination, as it were, I think we should mobilize our collective stance. What do we agree upon? What do we value? What are we teaching? If there is a crisis in the humanities, I'm not sure what good it does to abandon these sites of struggle, to say, well, fine, take it, I didn't really like that anyway. Yours, Gregg Murray _______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at gmail.com Fri Oct 15 18:08:16 2010 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2010 17:08:16 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] "The Crisis of the Humanities Officially Arrives" In-Reply-To: <8CD3ACB4CD1E89F-1D10-21C7@webmail-m009.sysops.aol.com> References: <143469.74404.qm@web110508.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <8CD3ACB4CD1E89F-1D10-21C7@webmail-m009.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: A lot of schools split my salary over the years, mostly without paying any benefits. I must have saved them millions. Hal Serving the tri-state area. Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home *Mainly Black , **Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ;* *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; * ***Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; * ***G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; * *Transparencies & Projections * On Fri, Oct 15, 2010 at 4:59 PM, wrote: > I work in business and not the academy. Looking at it from the outside, is > it not possible that some consolidation in academic programs may be > necessary from time to time? When the number of students/majors in a certain > department dwindles, wouldn't it be logical to direct the remaining students > to other institutions where there are adequate numbers of like > students/majors enrolled? There must be hundreds of colleges/universities in > New York state (public and private) with overlapping/duplicated > programs/departments. And if for example the number of French majors falls > to an unsustainable number, could not the 4 majors at school A join the 5 > majors at school B? Or could not school A and school B split the salary of > one professor? I may not understand the ramifications of losing a certain > area within the humanities dept...but it seems the 'overall capacity' in the > 'larger system' of colleges and universities is still there and it's not as > though the specialty disciplines cannot be accessed. And with certain > technologies (e.g. webinars) it may be easier to consolidate > small, disparate specialties. > Finnegan > > -----Original Message----- > From: Gregg Murray > To: NewPoetry List > Sent: Wed, Oct 13, 2010 5:13 pm > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] "The Crisis of the Humanities Officially Arrives" > > > I think Fish's article raises valid concerns about the "business" model of > the university. The story is, of course, that SUNY Albany's president is, > essentially, a CEO. Rather than being able/going to bat for the disciplines > under his care, he is asked to cut costs. Unfortunately, this once might > have required a university president to reflect on the value of a liberal > arts education, something done more easily by someone with a liberal arts > education, a Ph.D., and background as a professor in that institution. Fish > notes that this man does not have such a background. He thinks that it's > better to cut "useless" programs in the face of fewer resources. > > Rather than indulging in one-line, emotional responses, I think humanities > professionals need to continue articulating the value of their respective > fields. Rather than surrender universities as sites of art discrimination, > as it were, I think we should mobilize our collective stance. What do we > agree upon? What do we value? What are we teaching? If there is a crisis in > the humanities, I'm not sure what good it does to abandon these sites of > struggle, to say, well, fine, take it, I didn't really like that anyway. > > Yours, > Gregg Murray > > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing listNew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.eduhttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From junction at earthlink.net Fri Oct 15 18:23:37 2010 From: junction at earthlink.net (Mark Weiss) Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2010 18:23:37 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] "The Crisis of the Humanities Officially Arrives" In-Reply-To: <8CD3ACB4CD1E89F-1D10-21C7@webmail-m009.sysops.aol.com> References: <143469.74404.qm@web110508.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <8CD3ACB4CD1E89F-1D10-21C7@webmail-m009.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: This does happen to an extent, but almost exclusively with state systems (an exception is the hybrid five college system in the Amherst-Northampton area). Otherwise it's separate and usually incompatible corporate structures. There are two issues here that are I think unique to higher education. One is that during flush times for a given department hires were made for the needed personnel on the basis of tenure--Professor x chose school y instead of z because it offered a given pay package, prestige, and work conditions, including irrevocable tenure (barring morals problems or incapacity). The university can only discharge the prof if the department is shut down. Even if say French became part of a new entity called modern languages all of those tenured in french would have to renegotiate. So the agreed-upon terms of employment are unilaterally changed. Demand fluctuates. Maybe a major oil strike in Guyane or francophone Africa changes power and economic balances and there's a sudden need for more French speakers (as there was during the cold war for Russian speakers). Starting departments from scratch takes time. And the pool of applicants for positions in the field will presumably have shrunk because of lack of jobs in the interim. Another cause of fluctuation is what institutions and the educational system at large considers the goals of education. It used to be that everyone was required to take several years of a foreign language, maybe two languages, and more for advanced degrees. When I was in grad school I needed three plus anglosaxon. Even science types had to learn German once upon a time, when that was the language of a good bit of science. One can't assume that the hegemony of English will be eternal. This wasn't just for utilitarian reasons--it was considered a part of an education, and that's what parents and students paid for. Change the goals of education and personnel needs change. Now that universities are making increasingly narrowly utilitarian decisions, based not only on what the economy is perceived to need but on the whims of students, almost all humanities and political science departments are under threat. And the quality of education of what we call the educated continues to plummet here in comparison to most other places. Best, Mark At 05:59 PM 10/15/2010, you wrote: >I work in business and not the academy. Looking >at it from the outside, is it not possible that >some consolidation in academic programs may be >necessary from time to time? When the number of >students/majors in a certain department >dwindles, wouldn't it be logical to direct the >remaining students to other institutions where >there are adequate numbers of like >students/majors enrolled? There must be hundreds >of colleges/universities in New York state >(public and private) with overlapping/duplicated >programs/departments. And if for example the >number of French majors falls to an >unsustainable number, could not the 4 majors at >school A join the 5 majors at school B? Or could >not school A and school B split the salary of >one professor? I may not understand the >ramifications of losing a certain area within >the humanities dept...but it seems the 'overall >capacity' in the 'larger system' of colleges and >universities is still there and it's not as >though the specialty disciplines cannot be >accessed. And with certain technologies (e.g. >webinars) it may be easier to consolidate small, disparate specialties. >Finnegan > >-----Original Message----- >From: Gregg Murray >To: NewPoetry List >Sent: Wed, Oct 13, 2010 5:13 pm >Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] "The Crisis of the Humanities Officially Arrives" > > >I think Fish's article raises valid concerns >about the "business" model of the university. >The story is, of course, that SUNY Albany's >president is, essentially, a CEO. Rather than >being able/going to bat for the disciplines >under his care, he is asked to cut costs. >Unfortunately, this once might have required a >university president to reflect on the value of >a liberal arts education, something done more >easily by someone with a liberal arts education, >a Ph.D., and background as a professor in that >institution. Fish notes that this man does not >have such a background. He thinks that it's >better to cut "useless" programs in the face of fewer resources. > >Rather than indulging in one-line, emotional >responses, I think humanities professionals need >to continue articulating the value of their >respective fields. Rather than surrender >universities as sites of art discrimination, as >it were, I think we should mobilize our >collective stance. What do we agree upon? What >do we value? What are we teaching? If there is a >crisis in the humanities, I'm not sure what good >it does to abandon these sites of struggle, to >say, well, fine, take it, I didn't really like that anyway. > >Yours, >Gregg Murray > >> > > > >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry New from Chax Press: Mark Weiss, As Landscape. $16. Order from http://www.chax.org/poets/weiss.htm "What a beautiful set of circumstances! What a lovely concatenation of particulars. Here is the poet alive in every sense of the word, and through every one of his senses. Instead of missing a beat or a part, Weiss? fragments are like Chekhov?s short stories?the more that gets left out, the more they seem to contain One can hear echoes from all the various ancestors...[but] the voice, at its center, its core, is pure Mark Weiss. His use of the fragment is both elegant and bafflingly clear, a pure musical threnody [it] opens a window, not only into a mind, but a person, a personality, this human figure at the emotional center of the poem." M.G. Stephens, in Jacket. http://jacketmagazine.com/40/r-weiss-rb-stephens.shtml -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Fri Oct 15 18:36:51 2010 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2010 18:36:51 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] "The Crisis of the Humanities Officially Arrives" In-Reply-To: References: <143469.74404.qm@web110508.mail.gq1.yahoo.com><8CD3ACB4CD1E89F-1D10-21C7@webmail-m009.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <8CD3AD0988B27BF-1D10-29B1@webmail-m009.sysops.aol.com> I know adjunct hires are not treated fairly in regards to teaching loads vis a vis pay & benefits. That's a class/caste structure issue that should be rectified before any hand-wringing about the contraction/elimination of specialty departments. Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: Halvard Johnson To: NewPoetry List Sent: Fri, Oct 15, 2010 6:08 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] "The Crisis of the Humanities Officially Arrives" A lot of schools split my salary over the years, mostly without paying any benefits. I must have saved them millions. Hal Serving the tri-state area. Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home Mainly Black, Obras P?blicas; The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets; Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones; Tango Bouquet; Theory of Harmony; Rapsodie espagnole; Guide to the Tokyo Subway; The Sonnet Project; G(e)nome; Winter Journey; Eclipse; The Dance of the Red Swan; Transparencies & Projections On Fri, Oct 15, 2010 at 4:59 PM, wrote: I work in business and not the academy. Looking at it from the outside, is it not possible that some consolidation in academic programs may be necessary from time to time? When the number of students/majors in a certain department dwindles, wouldn't it be logical to direct the remaining students to other institutions where there are adequate numbers of like students/majors enrolled? There must be hundreds of colleges/universities in New York state (public and private) with overlapping/duplicated programs/departments. And if for example the number of French majors falls to an unsustainable number, could not the 4 majors at school A join the 5 majors at school B? Or could not school A and school B split the salary of one professor? I may not understand the ramifications of losing a certain area within the humanities dept...but it seems the 'overall capacity' in the 'larger system' of colleges and universities is still there and it's not as though the specialty disciplines cannot be accessed. And with certain technologies (e.g. webinars) it may be easier to consolidate small, disparate specialties. Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: Gregg Murray To: NewPoetry List Sent: Wed, Oct 13, 2010 5:13 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] "The Crisis of the Humanities Officially Arrives" I think Fish's article raises valid concerns about the "business" model of the university. The story is, of course, that SUNY Albany's president is, essentially, a CEO. Rather than being able/going to bat for the disciplines under his care, he is asked to cut costs. Unfortunately, this once might have required a university president to reflect on the value of a liberal arts education, something done more easily by someone with a liberal arts education, a Ph.D., and background as a professor in that institution. Fish notes that this man does not have such a background. He thinks that it's better to cut "useless" programs in the face of fewer resources. Rather than indulging in one-line, emotional responses, I think humanities professionals need to continue articulating the value of their respective fields. Rather than surrender universities as sites of art discrimination, as it were, I think we should mobilize our collective stance. What do we agree upon? What do we value? What are we teaching? If there is a crisis in the humanities, I'm not sure what good it does to abandon these sites of struggle, to say, well, fine, take it, I didn't really like that anyway. Yours, Gregg Murray _______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Fri Oct 15 19:29:53 2010 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2010 19:29:53 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Edwin Morgan portrait Message-ID: <8CD3AD801503A40-1834-119CA@webmail-m026.sysops.aol.com> http://thescotsman.scotsman.com/features/Sketchy--details-A-Gray.6583749.jp Sketchy details: A Gray portrait of the late poet Edwin Morgan Date: 16 October 2010 By SUSAN MANSFIELD IT was back in 1986 that Alasdair Gray first discussed this book with his publisher, Stephanie Wolfe-Murray at Canongate. It was formally commissioned in 1995 by Wolfe-Murray's successor Jamie Byng. Then a contract was signed in 2004 for delivery the following year. Now, 24 years after it was first proposed, the book is published. Any student of Gray's oeuvre, whether literary or artistic, will find it littered with unfinished projects, missed deadlines and general falling-outs with patron or publisher -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From michelle.boisseau at gmail.com Fri Oct 15 19:57:49 2010 From: michelle.boisseau at gmail.com (Michelle Boisseau) Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2010 00:57:49 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poet C.D. Wright is award finalist In-Reply-To: <8CD3AC2BC252E45-1D10-135F@webmail-m009.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CD3AC2BC252E45-1D10-135F@webmail-m009.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: Wright is a powerful poet. On Fri, Oct 15, 2010 at 9:57 PM, wrote: > Poet C.D. Wright is award finalist > > http://www.projo.com/books/content/Rhode-Wright-nomination-1017_10-17-10_8UKD80V_v9.34d82a.html > 01:00 AM EDT on Sunday, October 17, 2010 > > Poet C.D. Wright, the Israel J. Kapstein Professor of English at Brown > University, got word last week that she is one of five poetry finalists for > the National Book Award ? nominated for a book she has yet to hold in her > hands. > > The book on which the nomination is based, ?One With Others [a little book > of her days],? is still two weeks away from publication. It is a mix of > poetry and prose, centering around a racist incident in Wright?s home state > of Arkansas. > > The National Book Award is one of the country?s oldest and highest literary > honors. If Wright?s name is read when the winners are announced during the > awards ceremony Nov. 17 in New York, it will be the second consecutive year > a Brown professor takes home the prize in poetry, which consists of a check > for $10,000 and a bronze statue: Keith Waldrop, Brooke Russell Astor > Professor of Humanities, won last year for his book, ?Transcendental > Studies: A Trilogy.? > > Wright, a former Rhode Island Poet Laureate, has published dozens of books > of poetry and prose, including last year?s winner of the prestigious Griffin > Poetry Award, ?Rising Falling Hovering.? > > Her nominated book, she says, began as an homage to a brilliant, > self-educated literary friend in Arkansas during the 1960s, ?an anonymous > woman with lots of children and no financial resourses,? with whom Wright > maintained a friendship until she died a few years ago in New York City. > Wright describes the work as her ?footnote to civil rights.? > > / > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Michelle.Boisseau at gmail.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jschickl at hotmail.com Fri Oct 15 21:44:32 2010 From: jschickl at hotmail.com (Jared Schickling) Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2010 19:44:32 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] "The Crisis of the Humanities Officially Arrives" In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: It?s apparently up for debate whether or not a business-eye is the right one for viewing the issue of public education in New York State. ?Consolidation? across departments and campuses as antidote to funding woes etc. suggests a business model for public education. Mark points out institutions run increasingly according to ?the whims of students,? and I agree with that reading?the university increasingly resembles a consumer-driven mall, and the classroom is uninsulated. Good spenders comprise a vast multigenerational ?me? "generation" whose apparently inexhaustible appetite shapes what perceivable tomorrows across competing campuses. Campuses are increasingly SEXY. And as much is in line with SUNY?s recent arguments that opening the doors to an actual privatization of SUNY campuses is not only desirable but necessary. The state?s deficit balloons and balloons and it consistently fails to just pass a damn budget, keeping towns and counties on nails hoping they aren?t singled out for the state?s oversight committees when they don?t break even (go figure), and like every other capitalist bureaucracy in this situation the first to be slashed the unhappy bedfellows are public services and education. This is not by accident; it is very strategic; when lemons make lemon drinks. Albany?s answer to its problems is to allow the former apple of its eye?its public education system?to go the way of the dinosaur, saying each campus should be in charge of setting its own tuition. That way, each on-the-ground institution can examine their unique case and make the decisions most appropriate for them. SUNY-wide, THAT WILL MEAN BEGGING PRIVATE CAPITAL. Such whorishness MEANS a corporate future to ?higher? ?education.? The public education system in New York has in its masthead a commitment to education as a right?and a commitment therefore to EQUAL ACCESS TO EDUCATION BY ALL. There has been a commitment to keeping ACCESS alive, financially and geographically, so I?m hard-pressed to see how ?consolidating? things across campuses or even departments will serve this mission, given the constriction of deliverable services (?educations?) consolidating must necessarily entail. And as student enrollments continue to increase (a paradox viz. funding woes, I know), constrictions of supply must also entail a higher cost to said education. Dispensing with tenured faculty in favor of cheaper adjuncts don?t seem desirable neither. Jesus murphy could go on and on but the point is that abandoning the principles inherent to building a traditional public school system built around core faculty within safe departments signals the end of non-market-driven-learnin. And all those contracts for current tenures?these will prove dispensable once your negotiator?s headache is big enough and the buyout attractive enough. SUNY chancellors, like true capitalists, think opening their doors to private sector ching ching will save ours or someone?s behind?true, there is more money in the private sector, that truth the private sector promises to whom it whispers, that same truth spoken differently aloud when it promises it may thus deliver better, more reliable services, cuz they got more cash to SPEND !!! lol now I?m reminded of those heathens down there in Cochabamba. They apparently couldn?t see they just had to be patient with the private sector. Enough. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From junction at earthlink.net Sat Oct 16 02:06:06 2010 From: junction at earthlink.net (Mark Weiss) Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2010 02:06:06 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] "The Crisis of the Humanities Officially Arrives" In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: And here's what's happening in Britain, where the tories are determined never to win another election. http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/16/world/europe/16britain.html?hp At 09:44 PM 10/15/2010, you wrote: >It?s apparently up for debate whether or not a >business-eye is the right one for viewing the >issue of public education in New York >State. ?Consolidation? across departments and >campuses as antidote to funding woes etc. >suggests a business model for public >education. Mark points out institutions run >increasingly according to ?the whims of >students,? and I agree with that reading?the >university increasingly resembles a >consumer-driven mall, and the classroom is >uninsulated. Good spenders comprise a vast >multigenerational ?me? "generation" whose >apparently inexhaustible appetite shapes what >perceivable tomorrows across competing >campuses. Campuses are increasingly SEXY. And >as much is in line with SUNY?s recent arguments >that opening the doors to an actual >privatization of SUNY campuses is not only >desirable but necessary. The state?s deficit >balloons and balloons and it consistently fails >to just pass a damn budget, keeping towns and >counties on nails hoping they aren?t singled out >for the state?s oversight committees when they >don?t break even (go figure), and like every >other capitalist bureaucracy in this situation >the first to be slashed the unhappy bedfellows >are public services and education. This is not >by accident; it is very strategic; when lemons >make lemon drinks. Albany?s answer to its >problems is to allow the former apple of its >eye?its public education system?to go the way of >the dinosaur, saying each campus should be in >charge of setting its own tuition. That way, >each on-the-ground institution can examine their >unique case and make the decisions most >appropriate for them. SUNY-wide, THAT WILL MEAN >BEGGING PRIVATE CAPITAL. Such whorishness MEANS >a corporate future to ?higher? ?education.? The >public education system in New York has in its >masthead a commitment to education as a >right?and a commitment therefore to EQUAL ACCESS >TO EDUCATION BY ALL. There has been a >commitment to keeping ACCESS alive, financially >and geographically, so I?m hard-pressed to see >how ?consolidating? things across campuses or >even departments will serve this mission, given >the constriction of deliverable services >(?educations?) consolidating must necessarily >entail. And as student enrollments continue to >increase (a paradox viz. funding woes, I know), >constrictions of supply must also entail a >higher cost to said education. Dispensing with >tenured faculty in favor of cheaper adjuncts >don?t seem desirable neither. Jesus murphy >could go on and on but the point is that >abandoning the principles inherent to building a >traditional public school system built around >core faculty within safe departments signals the >end of non-market-driven-learnin. And all those >contracts for current tenures?these will prove >dispensable once your negotiator?s headache is >big enough and the buyout attractive >enough. SUNY chancellors, like true >capitalists, think opening their doors to >private sector ching ching will save ours or >someone?s behind?true, there is more money in >the private sector, that truth the private >sector promises to whom it whispers, that same >truth spoken differently aloud when it promises >it may thus deliver better, more reliable >services, cuz they got more cash to SPEND !!! >lol now I?m reminded of those heathens down >there in Cochabamba. They apparently couldn?t >see they just had to be patient with the private sector. Enough. > >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry New from Chax Press: Mark Weiss, As Landscape. $16. Order from http://www.chax.org/poets/weiss.htm "What a beautiful set of circumstances! What a lovely concatenation of particulars. Here is the poet alive in every sense of the word, and through every one of his senses. Instead of missing a beat or a part, Weiss? fragments are like Chekhov?s short stories?the more that gets left out, the more they seem to contain One can hear echoes from all the various ancestors...[but] the voice, at its center, its core, is pure Mark Weiss. His use of the fragment is both elegant and bafflingly clear, a pure musical threnody [it] opens a window, not only into a mind, but a person, a personality, this human figure at the emotional center of the poem." M.G. Stephens, in Jacket. http://jacketmagazine.com/40/r-weiss-rb-stephens.shtml -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sat Oct 16 07:24:49 2010 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2010 06:24:49 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] "The Crisis of the Humanities Officially Arrives" In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4CB98B81.6010206@nut-n-but.net> I would say socialism is as much at fault as capitalism--the government essentially makes people pay for college degrees (while socialistically subsidizing colleges, and giving gov't-certified ones a monopoly) by making almost every well-paying job require one--and the kids take courses they like in order to get a degree without worrying about learning anything of value because in our world, credentials count, abilities don't. --Bob From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Sat Oct 16 07:33:25 2010 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2010 13:33:25 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] "The Crisis of the Humanities Officially Arrives" In-Reply-To: <4CB98B81.6010206@nut-n-but.net> References: <4CB98B81.6010206@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: I find this view quite complete, the usual serpent biting its tail. On Sat, Oct 16, 2010 at 1:24 PM, Bob Grumman wrote: > I would say socialism is as much at fault as capitalism--the government > essentially makes people pay for college degrees (while socialistically > subsidizing colleges, and giving gov't-certified ones a monopoly) by making > almost every well-paying job require one--and the kids take courses they > like in order to get a degree without worrying about learning anything of > value because in our world, credentials count, abilities don't. > > --Bob > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From junction at earthlink.net Sat Oct 16 10:43:43 2010 From: junction at earthlink.net (Mark Weiss) Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2010 10:43:43 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] "The Crisis of the Humanities Officially Arrives" In-Reply-To: <4CB98B81.6010206@nut-n-but.net> References: <4CB98B81.6010206@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: Subsidies of one kind or another are a major revenue stream for virtually all universities everywhere, whether by government, church, individual donors or industry. But I'm not sure what you're getting at, because I'm not sure what you mean by "value." Do you mean that universities and colleges should be trade schools? Because that's a lot of what's been happening for the past forty-odd years, and certainly what the president of SUNY-Albany thinks should happen. Outside money has increasingly flowed towards "useful" subjects, and students, who supply the other major revenue stream, have increasingly gravitated towards "useful" degrees, with less and less resistance from their schools. Although the picture is made more confusing by the existence of departments that attract other students and have little value in the non-academic job market or, compared to traditional disciplines, as education. I was very lucky to have gone to Columbia, where one gets to choose almost no courses for the first two years because the required courses, taught by top scholars in the various fields (I had Donald Keene for the Japanese section of Oriental Civ, for example) fill almost all one's hours. I do agree with you wholeheartedly about degree as job certification. It seems never to end. A friend of mine who has been a concert pianist for almost forty years has been looking at jobs teaching piano in music departments, which is why I've become aware that doctorates in piano have become an essential piece of paper. But at the level of the undergraduate degree, part of the issue is that in the US the degree became an instrument of upward mobility during an unusually socially fluid period under the GI Bill. The democratization of education was a good thing, I think, but it had unintended consequences, largely because of the collapse of secondary education in most of the country. So we have a situation in which an often semi-literate population goes to college for social and job certification, and also to provide the very basic skills (which used to be taught in high school) that employers look for in young workers. Best, Mark At 07:24 AM 10/16/2010, you wrote: > I would say socialism is as much at fault as > capitalism--the government essentially makes > people pay for college degrees (while > socialistically subsidizing colleges, and > giving gov't-certified ones a monopoly) by > making almost every well-paying job require > one--and the kids take courses they like in > order to get a degree without worrying about > learning anything of value because in our > world, credentials count, abilities don't. > >--Bob >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry New from Chax Press: Mark Weiss, As Landscape. $16. Order from http://www.chax.org/poets/weiss.htm "What a beautiful set of circumstances! What a lovely concatenation of particulars. Here is the poet alive in every sense of the word, and through every one of his senses. Instead of missing a beat or a part, Weiss? fragments are like Chekhov?s short stories?the more that gets left out, the more they seem to contain One can hear echoes from all the various ancestors...[but] the voice, at its center, its core, is pure Mark Weiss. His use of the fragment is both elegant and bafflingly clear, a pure musical threnody [it] opens a window, not only into a mind, but a person, a personality, this human figure at the emotional center of the poem." M.G. Stephens, in Jacket. http://jacketmagazine.com/40/r-weiss-rb-stephens.shtml -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sat Oct 16 12:39:46 2010 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2010 11:39:46 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] "The Crisis of the Humanities Officially Arrives" In-Reply-To: References: <4CB98B81.6010206@n ut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <4CB9D552.9090106@nut-n-but.net> On 10/16/2010 9:43 AM, Mark Weiss wrote: > Subsidies of one kind or another are a major revenue stream for > virtually all universities everywhere, whether by government, church, > individual donors or industry. But I'm not sure what you're getting > at, because I'm not sure what you mean by "value." Do you mean that > universities and colleges should be trade schools? Because that's a > lot of what's been happening for the past forty-odd years, and > certainly what the president of SUNY-Albany thinks should happen. > Outside money has increasingly flowed towards "useful" subjects, and > students, who supply the other major revenue stream, have increasingly > gravitated towards "useful" degrees, with less and less resistance > from their schools. Although the picture is made more confusing by the > existence of departments that attract other students and have little > value in the non-academic job market or, compared to traditional > disciplines, as education. > > I was very lucky to have gone to Columbia, where one gets to choose > almost no courses for the first two years because the required > courses, taught by top scholars in the various fields (I had Donald > Keene for the Japanese section of Oriental Civ, for example) fill > almost all one's hours. > > I do agree with you wholeheartedly about degree as job certification. > It seems never to end. A friend of mine who has been a concert pianist > for almost forty years has been looking at jobs teaching piano in > music departments, which is why I've become aware that doctorates in > piano have become an essential piece of paper. > > But at the level of the undergraduate degree, part of the issue is > that in the US the degree became an instrument of upward mobility > during an unusually socially fluid period under the GI Bill. The > democratization of education was a good thing, I think, but it had > unintended consequences, largely because of the collapse of secondary > education in most of the country. So we have a situation in which an > often semi-literate population goes to college for social and job > certification, and also to provide the very basic skills (which used > to be taught in high school) that employers look for in young workers. > > Best, > > Mark The starting place of my thoughts on what kind of colleges and equivalents of colleges we should have, which I haven't thought through nearly as much as I'll have to if I ever write the book I actually would like to write about it but won't likely get to is that the government would get out of education (gradually), various corporations would start schools (or take over schools) and have them teach what they think their employees need--to potential employees for little or nothing, some of them contracting to work for the company a certain number of years in return for the education, and to others who think they can learn something worthwhile from the outfit and are willing to pay for it; churches could do the same, possibly to gain clergy but for laymen, etc.; trade schools like ones we have already (one in my home town, vo-tech, seems excellent, gives classes to high school kids, turns out all kinds of medical technicians and nurses who are in great demand here in old folk country, and some whom I taught in high school then got medical treatment from seem very competent, and computer techs, etc.); and specialty schools including traditional liberal arts schools that there would still be a demand for, and which wouldn't have to compete against as many other schools, and clutter their curriculae with government-mandated courses. I could even set up an institute of visual poetry, teach all the courses and grant certificates of some kind that might even count toward a more conventional degree at a new-style liberal arts college. And there would be apprenticeships one could serve. Private companies that would evaluate people looking for jobs and find jobs for them should become more common--to make money they'd have to provide good employees, so they'd have to perfect their methods of testing. This way people with knowledge but no degrees could get the jobs they deserve. Crazy idealism, but worth thinking about, I hope. And I didn't mention the Internet, which is going to have a huge effect--a very beneficial one if the government stays out of it. --Bob From jforjames at aol.com Sat Oct 16 13:10:37 2010 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2010 13:10:37 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] "The Crisis of the Humanities Officially Arrives" In-Reply-To: References: <143469.74404.qm@web110508.mail.gq1.yahoo.com><8CD3ACB4CD1E89F-1D10-21C7@webmail-m009.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <8CD3B6C2F81B471-2158-B184@webmail-m080.sysops.aol.com> I know of a case in an art school where they have a Media Arts department but no Media Arts majors. It's not a large department (one full-time professor). There are likely many other art schools with active enrollments in Media Arts, so it's not a matter of students being deprived of access. One could argue that all modern art schools should have a Media Arts requirement, as a core curriculum requirement. But apparently that is not the case at this institution. For now, a very small department is being subsidized by other departments (painting, illustration, graphic design, ceramics, photography, etc.) with adequate numbers of enrolled students. Resources are thus being allocated from where they're needed to a department that is by definition 'defunct'. Though the art school and the university as a whole may be solvent, the Media Arts department is bankrupt: No tuitions to offset the expenses of staff, plant and equipment needed to sustain that small (and now unutilized) department. Going back to the contractual agreement, there was counterparty risk when the contract was entered into: Risk that the entity who made a promise to pay for services cannot financially deliver on that promise. The university may come to point where it must default on its promises under the contract. So I guess it's a question of should society, in the case of a state-funded school, or a private institution expect to subsidize certain academic areas just to know they're there and available, should anyone wish to pursue that discipline? . Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: Mark Weiss To: NewPoetry List Sent: Fri, Oct 15, 2010 6:23 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] "The Crisis of the Humanities Officially Arrives" This does happen to an extent, but almost exclusively with state systems (an exception is the hybrid five college system in the Amherst-Northampton area). Otherwise it's separate and usually incompatible corporate structures. There are two issues here that are I think unique to higher education. One is that during flush times for a given department hires were made for the needed personnel on the basis of tenure--Professor x chose school y instead of z because it offered a given pay package, prestige, and work conditions, including irrevocable tenure (barring morals problems or incapacity). The university can only discharge the prof if the department is shut down. Even if say French became part of a new entity called modern languages all of those tenured in french would have to renegotiate. So the agreed-upon terms of employment are unilaterally changed. Demand fluctuates. Maybe a major oil strike in Guyane or francophone Africa changes power and economic balances and there's a sudden need for more French speakers (as there was during the cold war for Russian speakers). Starting departments from scratch takes time. And the pool of applicants for positions in the field will presumably have shrunk because of lack of jobs in the interim. Another cause of fluctuation is what institutions and the educational system at large considers the goals of education. It used to be that everyone was required to take several years of a foreign language, maybe two languages, and more for advanced degrees. When I was in grad school I needed three plus anglosaxon. Even science types had to learn German once upon a time, when that was the language of a good bit of science. One can't assume that the hegemony of English will be eternal. This wasn't just for utilitarian reasons--it was considered a part of an education, and that's what parents and students paid for. Change the goals of education and personnel needs change. Now that universities are making increasingly narrowly utilitarian decisions, based not only on what the economy is perceived to need but on the whims of students, almost all humanities and political science departments are under threat. And the quality of education of what we call the educated continues to plummet here in comparison to most other places. Best, Mark -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Sat Oct 16 13:28:30 2010 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2010 13:28:30 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] "The Crisis of the Humanities Officially Arrives" In-Reply-To: <8CD3B6C2F81B471-2158-B184@webmail-m080.sysops.aol.com> References: <143469.74404.qm@web110508.mail.gq1.yahoo.com><8CD3ACB4CD1E89F-1D10-21C7@webmail-m009.sysops.aol.com> <8CD3B6C2F81B471-2158-B184@webmail-m080.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <8CD3B6EAFA1C3F1-2158-B41F@webmail-m080.sysops.aol.com> I remember reading that in the early academies, the 'professors' collected the tuition directly from their students. There was probably no better way of determining the value of what you were teaching than direct collection of tuition. Finnegan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jschickl at hotmail.com Sat Oct 16 13:37:36 2010 From: jschickl at hotmail.com (Jared Schickling) Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2010 11:37:36 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] "The Crisis of the Humanities Officially Arrives" In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Yes, Bob, fair enough. Though a slight deviation, what also counts is a highly specialized, targeted knowledge base. Devote oneself to administering x-rays, for example, never mind reading them. Rampant institutional interdisciplinarity (a good thing) has had the ironic effect of insulating private minds within specialized vocations (a bad thing). Also ironically, as we see, despite a prevailing free spirit of cowboy entrepreneurialism the individual is squashed within the "the conscious and intelligent organized habits and opinions of the masses"--late-stage capitalism increasingly resembles the borg-like assimilations of incorporated government. Such things, I think, are a function of technology running amok. The solution doesn't seem to be an economic model, doesn't seem to be the artificial choice between "socialism" or "capitalism." Those are useful words for campaign platforms and otherwise--not that anyone's campaigning here!!!--whose ideological purity never really speaks to the legislative or economic actuality of any place. Re "value," I'm inclined to think that colleges and universities, be it the humanities or hard sciences, have a responsibility to offer practical and intellectual alternatives to whatever status quo. They are counterweights in this regards and thus, in principle, catalysts for change. They are unique in terms of the role they occupy in governed societies. That seems in part the source of hostility against them, and seems in part the source of their political-economic demise. The public education system and priorities in America are devolving. > I would say socialism is as much at fault as capitalism--the government > essentially makes people pay for college degrees (while socialistically > subsidizing colleges, and giving gov't-certified ones a monopoly) by making > almost every well-paying job require one--and the kids take courses they > like in order to get a degree without worrying about learning anything of > value because in our world, credentials count, abilities don't. > > --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From junction at earthlink.net Sat Oct 16 13:43:53 2010 From: junction at earthlink.net (Mark Weiss) Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2010 13:43:53 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] "The Crisis of the Humanities Officially Arrives" In-Reply-To: <8CD3B6EAFA1C3F1-2158-B41F@webmail-m080.sysops.aol.com> References: <143469.74404.qm@web110508.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <8CD3ACB4CD1E89F-1D10-21C7@webmail-m009.sysops.aol.com> <8CD3B6C2F81B471-2158-B184@webmail-m080.sysops.aol.com> <8CD3B6EAFA1C3F1-2158-B41F@webmail-m080.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: Yup, in the good old days when the profs were all clergy and the church paid for4 the infrastructure (and everyone tithed and the church owned most of the land). Might work. At 01:28 PM 10/16/2010, you wrote: >I remember reading that in the early academies, >the 'professors' collected the tuition directly >from their students. There was probably no >better way of determining the value of what you >were teaching than direct collection of tuition. > >Finnegan >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry New from Chax Press: Mark Weiss, As Landscape. $16. Order from http://www.chax.org/poets/weiss.htm "What a beautiful set of circumstances! What a lovely concatenation of particulars. Here is the poet alive in every sense of the word, and through every one of his senses. Instead of missing a beat or a part, Weiss? fragments are like Chekhov?s short stories?the more that gets left out, the more they seem to contain One can hear echoes from all the various ancestors...[but] the voice, at its center, its core, is pure Mark Weiss. His use of the fragment is both elegant and bafflingly clear, a pure musical threnody [it] opens a window, not only into a mind, but a person, a personality, this human figure at the emotional center of the poem." M.G. Stephens, in Jacket. http://jacketmagazine.com/40/r-weiss-rb-stephens.shtml -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at gmail.com Sat Oct 16 13:36:41 2010 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2010 12:36:41 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] "The Crisis of the Humanities Officially Arrives" In-Reply-To: <8CD3B6EAFA1C3F1-2158-B41F@webmail-m080.sysops.aol.com> References: <143469.74404.qm@web110508.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <8CD3ACB4CD1E89F-1D10-21C7@webmail-m009.sysops.aol.com> <8CD3B6C2F81B471-2158-B184@webmail-m080.sysops.aol.com> <8CD3B6EAFA1C3F1-2158-B41F@webmail-m080.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: And the professors were directly hired by the students, as I recall. Hal Serving the tri-state area. Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home *Mainly Black , **Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ;* *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; * ***Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; * ***G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; * *Transparencies & Projections * On Sat, Oct 16, 2010 at 12:28 PM, wrote: > I remember reading that in the early academies, the 'professors' collected > the tuition directly from their students. There was probably no better way > of determining the value of what you were teaching than direct collection of > tuition. > > Finnegan > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From greggkirkmurray at yahoo.com Sat Oct 16 13:46:26 2010 From: greggkirkmurray at yahoo.com (Gregg Murray) Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2010 10:46:26 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] "The Crisis of the Humanities Officially Arrives" In-Reply-To: <8CD3B6EAFA1C3F1-2158-B41F@webmail-m080.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <171499.96754.qm@web110515.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> One concern I have with a laissez-faire approach to university education is that, during a recession, departments go out of existence. Because SUNY Albany is run by, essentially, a CEO, the perception that a degree in Russian, French, or Classics drives the decisions made by students. The panic caused by hard economic times certainly results in fewer Russian, French, and Classics majors, but it doesn't make those degrees less important. By trying to equip themselves for today's job market, students are, indeed, increasingly choosing more "marketable" majors. This will change when the market improves. But if, in the meantime--in the "hard" meantime--we take tenure from those who have earned it, we turn our universities into technical schools. The argument that "true" art thrives outside of the academy comes from outside of the academy. I'm not sure why "outside of the academy" artists care whether it thrives, or where. If their goal is to maintain a folk tradition, they should be aware of the gains made by Cultural Studies and disciplines influenced by it. Arts and arts-based education happens both inside and outside of our universities. Why do we want to limit one of the places where it thrives? Why would ANYONE on this list not want to promote arts and arts-based education? This position is not clear to me. At the risk of offending--and I'm not quite sure how to preempt this--I think it is partly fueled by jealousy over not everyone being able to make a good living through arts education.? Gregg Murray -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From junction at earthlink.net Sat Oct 16 13:49:47 2010 From: junction at earthlink.net (Mark Weiss) Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2010 13:49:47 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] "The Crisis of the Humanities Officially Arrives" In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Here's an example. Last time I had a physical my prostate exam was done, not by a GP, nor even a urologist, but by a urologiost who specialized in nothing but prostates. He felt around, then took twelve biopsy specimens, which feels a bit like a series of gunshots. This on the basis of the vaguest of symptoms and a psa reading of 1. All negative, natch. He wanted me to come in every three months for a checkup--what he tells all the boys. Turns out the guy biopsies every prostate he comes in contact with every time. Despite the much less demanding recommendations of the profession. Makes him a lot of money but doesn't add much to my store of knowledge about my body. I fired the guy and my GP will never send anyone to him again. 'At 01:37 PM 10/16/2010, you wrote: >Yes, Bob, fair enough. Though a slight >deviation, what also counts is a highly >specialized, targeted knowledge base. Devote >oneself to administering x-rays, for example, >never mind reading them. Rampant institutional >interdisciplinarity (a good thing) has had the >ironic effect of insulating private minds within >specialized vocations (a bad thing). Also >ironically, as we see, despite a prevailing free >spirit of cowboy entrepreneurialism the >individual is squashed within the "the conscious >and intelligent organized habits and opinions of >the masses"--late-stage capitalism increasingly >resembles the borg-like assimilations of >incorporated government. Such things, I think, >are a function of technology running amok. The >solution doesn't seem to be an economic model, >doesn't seem to be the artificial choice between >"socialism" or "capitalism." Those are useful >words for campaign platforms and otherwise--not >that anyone's campaigning here!!!--whose >ideological purity never really speaks to the >legislative or economic actuality of any place. > >Re "value," I'm inclined to think that colleges >and universities, be it the humanities or hard >sciences, have a responsibility to offer >practical and intellectual alternatives to >whatever status quo. They are counterweights in >this regards and thus, in principle, catalysts >for change. They are unique in terms of the >role they occupy in governed societies. That >seems in part the source of hostility against >them, and seems in part the source of their >political-economic demise. The public education >system and priorities in America are devolving. > > > I would say socialism is as much at fault as capitalism--the government > > essentially makes people pay for college degrees (while socialistically > > subsidizing colleges, and giving gov't-certified ones a monopoly) by making > > almost every well-paying job require one--and the kids take courses they > > like in order to get a degree without worrying about learning anything of > > value because in our world, credentials count, abilities don't. > > > > --Bob > >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry New from Chax Press: Mark Weiss, As Landscape. $16. Order from http://www.chax.org/poets/weiss.htm "What a beautiful set of circumstances! What a lovely concatenation of particulars. Here is the poet alive in every sense of the word, and through every one of his senses. Instead of missing a beat or a part, Weiss? fragments are like Chekhov?s short stories?the more that gets left out, the more they seem to contain One can hear echoes from all the various ancestors...[but] the voice, at its center, its core, is pure Mark Weiss. His use of the fragment is both elegant and bafflingly clear, a pure musical threnody [it] opens a window, not only into a mind, but a person, a personality, this human figure at the emotional center of the poem." M.G. Stephens, in Jacket. http://jacketmagazine.com/40/r-weiss-rb-stephens.shtml -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From greggkirkmurray at yahoo.com Sat Oct 16 13:53:33 2010 From: greggkirkmurray at yahoo.com (Gregg Murray) Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2010 10:53:33 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] "The Crisis of the Humanities Officially Arrives" In-Reply-To: <4CB9D552.9090106@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <57030.99304.qm@web110504.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Thank God no one's giving you money to write a book. Your logic is outrageous. --- On Sat, 10/16/10, Bob Grumman wrote: From: Bob Grumman Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] "The Crisis of the Humanities Officially Arrives" To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Saturday, October 16, 2010, 11:39 AM On 10/16/2010 9:43 AM, Mark Weiss wrote: > Subsidies of one kind or another are a major revenue stream for virtually all universities everywhere, whether by government, church, individual donors or industry. But I'm not sure what you're getting at, because I'm not sure what you mean by "value." Do you mean that universities and colleges should be trade schools? Because that's a lot of what's been happening for the past forty-odd years, and certainly what the president of SUNY-Albany thinks should happen. Outside money has increasingly flowed towards "useful" subjects, and students, who supply the other major revenue stream, have increasingly gravitated towards "useful" degrees, with less and less resistance from their schools. Although the picture is made more confusing by the existence of departments that attract other students and have little value in the non-academic job market or, compared to traditional disciplines, as education. > > I was very lucky to have gone to Columbia, where one gets to choose almost no courses for the first two years because the required courses, taught by top scholars in the various fields (I had Donald Keene for the Japanese section of Oriental Civ, for example) fill almost all one's hours. > > I do agree with you wholeheartedly about degree as job certification. It seems never to end. A friend of mine who has been a concert pianist for almost forty years has been looking at jobs teaching piano in music departments, which is why I've become aware that doctorates in piano have become an essential piece of paper. > > But at the level of the undergraduate degree, part of the issue is that in the US the degree became an instrument of upward mobility during an unusually socially fluid period under the GI Bill. The democratization of education was a good thing, I think, but it had unintended consequences, largely because of the collapse of secondary education in most of the country. So we have a situation in which an often semi-literate population goes to college for social and job certification, and also to provide the very basic skills (which used to be taught in high school) that employers look for in young workers. > > Best, > > Mark The starting place of my thoughts on what kind of colleges and equivalents of colleges we should have, which I haven't thought through nearly as much as I'll have to if I ever write the book I actually would like to write about it but won't likely get to is that the government would get out of education (gradually), various corporations would start schools (or take over schools) and have them teach what they think their employees need--to potential employees for little or nothing, some of them contracting to work for the company a certain number of years in return for the education, and to others who think they can learn something worthwhile from the outfit and are willing to pay for it; churches could do the same, possibly to gain clergy but for laymen, etc.; trade schools like ones we have already (one in my home town, vo-tech, seems excellent, gives classes to high school kids, turns out all kinds of medical technicians and nurses who are in great demand here in old folk country, and some whom I taught in high school then got medical treatment from seem very competent, and computer techs, etc.); and specialty schools including traditional liberal arts schools that there would still be a demand for, and which wouldn't have to compete against as many other schools, and clutter their curriculae with government-mandated courses.? I could even set up an institute of visual poetry, teach all the courses and grant certificates of some kind that might even count toward a more conventional degree at a new-style liberal arts college.? And there would be apprenticeships one could serve.? Private companies that would evaluate people looking for jobs and find jobs for them should become more common--to make money they'd have to provide good employees, so they'd have to perfect their methods of testing.? This way people with knowledge but no degrees could get the jobs they deserve. Crazy idealism, but worth thinking about, I hope.? And I didn't mention the Internet, which is going to have a huge effect--a very beneficial one if the government stays out of it. --Bob _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From junction at earthlink.net Sat Oct 16 14:00:29 2010 From: junction at earthlink.net (Mark Weiss) Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2010 14:00:29 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] "The Crisis of the Humanities Officially Arrives" In-Reply-To: <8CD3B6C2F81B471-2158-B184@webmail-m080.sysops.aol.com> References: <143469.74404.qm@web110508.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <8CD3ACB4CD1E89F-1D10-21C7@webmail-m009.sysops.aol.com> <8CD3B6C2F81B471-2158-B184@webmail-m080.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: Again, it's a matter of what we want from an education for ourselves and others. We could give elementary school kids choice over what to study and it would be all recess. Save a ton of money on staff. That's the direction colleges are going in. We don't use a consumer-driven business model for elementary students and we shouldn't for colleges. We're talking about eighteen year olds most of whom are barely above functional illiteracy when they start college, mst of whom have never read a newspaper and never read a book that wasn't assigned, and didn't read those if there were cliffnotes. If those who plan curricula require of students what they think students need to become minimally educated the problem disappears--there are no undersubscribed courses. Probably too late now, tho--most of the faculty are products of the kinds of universities that don't think they should require much of their students. Read some recent dissertations and you'll see what I mean. And even then, you're often reading the prose of hired guns--one of my friends makes a good living translating social science dissertations from inchoate into English. I realize that what I'm saying could be taken as elitism. OK, I'm fine with that. And that it implies a canon. That's OK too. As long as the study of that canon teaches the student how to study whatever else falls under his or her gaze. At 01:10 PM 10/16/2010, you wrote: >I know of a case in an art school where they >have a Media Arts department but no Media Arts >majors. It's not a large department (one >full-time professor). There are likely many >other art schools with active enrollments in >Media Arts, so it's not a matter of students >being deprived of access. One could argue that >all modern art schools should have a Media Arts >requirement, as a core curriculum requirement. >But apparently that is not the case at this >institution. For now, a very small department is >being subsidized by other departments (painting, >illustration, graphic design, ceramics, >photography, etc.) with adequate numbers of >enrolled students. Resources are thus being >allocated from where they're needed to a >department that is by definition 'defunct'. >Though the art school and the university as a >whole may be solvent, the Media Arts department >is bankrupt: No tuitions to offset the expenses >of staff, plant and equipment needed to sustain >that small (and now unutilized) department. > >Going back to the contractual agreement, there >was counterparty risk when the contract was >entered into: Risk that the entity who made a >promise to pay for services cannot financially >deliver on that promise. The university may come >to point where it must default on its promises under the contract. >So I guess it's a question of should society, in >the case of a state-funded school, or a private >institution expect to subsidize certain academic >areas just to know they're there and available, >should anyone wish to pursue that discipline? . >Finnegan >-----Original Message----- >From: Mark Weiss >To: NewPoetry List >Sent: Fri, Oct 15, 2010 6:23 pm >Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] "The Crisis of the Humanities Officially Arrives" > >This does happen to an extent, but almost >exclusively with state systems (an exception is >the hybrid five college system in the >Amherst-Northampton area). Otherwise it's >separate and usually incompatible corporate structures. > >There are two issues here that are I think >unique to higher education. One is that during >flush times for a given department hires were >made for the needed personnel on the basis of >tenure--Professor x chose school y instead of z >because it offered a given pay package, >prestige, and work conditions, including >irrevocable tenure (barring morals problems or >incapacity). The university can only discharge >the prof if the department is shut down. Even if >say French became part of a new entity called >modern languages all of those tenured in french >would have to renegotiate. So the agreed-upon >terms of employment are unilaterally changed. > >Demand fluctuates. Maybe a major oil strike in >Guyane or francophone Africa changes power and >economic balances and there's a sudden need for >more French speakers (as there was during the >cold war for Russian speakers). Starting >departments from scratch takes time. And the >pool of applicants for positions in the field >will presumably have shrunk because of lack of jobs in the interim. > >Another cause of fluctuation is what >institutions and the educational system at large >considers the goals of education. It used to be >that everyone was required to take several years >of a foreign language, maybe two languages, and >more for advanced degrees. When I was in grad >school I needed three plus anglosaxon. Even >science types had to learn German once upon a >time, when that was the language of a good bit >of science. One can't assume that the hegemony >of English will be eternal. This wasn't just for >utilitarian reasons--it was considered a part of >an education, and that's what parents and students paid for. > >Change the goals of education and personnel >needs change. Now that universities are making >increasingly narrowly utilitarian decisions, >based not only on what the economy is perceived >to need but on the whims of students, almost all >humanities and political science departments are under threat. > >And the quality of education of what we call the >educated continues to plummet here in comparison to most other places. > >Best, > >Mark >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry New from Chax Press: Mark Weiss, As Landscape. $16. Order from http://www.chax.org/poets/weiss.htm "What a beautiful set of circumstances! What a lovely concatenation of particulars. Here is the poet alive in every sense of the word, and through every one of his senses. Instead of missing a beat or a part, Weiss? fragments are like Chekhov?s short stories?the more that gets left out, the more they seem to contain One can hear echoes from all the various ancestors...[but] the voice, at its center, its core, is pure Mark Weiss. His use of the fragment is both elegant and bafflingly clear, a pure musical threnody [it] opens a window, not only into a mind, but a person, a personality, this human figure at the emotional center of the poem." M.G. Stephens, in Jacket. http://jacketmagazine.com/40/r-weiss-rb-stephens.shtml -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From greggkirkmurray at yahoo.com Sat Oct 16 13:59:30 2010 From: greggkirkmurray at yahoo.com (Gregg Murray) Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2010 10:59:30 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] "The Crisis of the Humanities Officially Arrives" In-Reply-To: <4CB98B81.6010206@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <52656.39620.qm@web110503.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> P.S. Bob, I would like to note that I do find your poetry very interesting and deserving of funding. It's your criticism I have to question. --- On Sat, 10/16/10, Bob Grumman wrote: From: Bob Grumman Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] "The Crisis of the Humanities Officially Arrives" To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Saturday, October 16, 2010, 6:24 AM I would say socialism is as much at fault as capitalism--the government essentially makes people pay for college degrees (while socialistically subsidizing colleges, and giving gov't-certified ones a monopoly) by making almost every well-paying job require one--and the kids take courses they like in order to get a degree without worrying about learning anything of value because in our world, credentials count, abilities don't. --Bob _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From junction at earthlink.net Sat Oct 16 14:22:22 2010 From: junction at earthlink.net (Mark Weiss) Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2010 14:22:22 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] "The Crisis of the Humanities Officially Arrives" In-Reply-To: <171499.96754.qm@web110515.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <8CD3B6EAFA1C3F1-2158-B41F@webmail-m080.sysops.aol.com> <171499.96754.qm@web110515.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Yup, offensive and presumptuous both. It's a bit like saying that those who worry about global warning are jealous of those with bigger cars. The issue isn't whether people want to study, say, writing at universities, but that the bureaucracy established by writing programs has become dominant beyond the academy. Hey, there are job fairs, conferences, specialized journals, colloquia about theories of how to teach writing, programs for extra ed credits in exotic locations, etc., while the quality of the work in general is more and more appaling. "Poets" who have identified themselves as such at twenty remain "poets" for professional reasons for their whole lives instead of realizing that it was just an adolescent fancy, as almost always happened in the past. And the graduates fill all the junior positions at publishing houses and journals and an increasing number of senior positions, while they wait for the pre-MFA codgers to die off, when the watered-down crap they've been taught to write can thoroughly drown the work of those who've figured out that poetry is a way of knowing that can demand uncomfortable things of us. Tho of course these days even the best poets tend to make their livings by teaching. But they're a very small minority among the thousands who teach. For the record, I teach occasionally because I enjoy it, and the bit of money is nice. But I've never been tempted to become an arts academic. >The argument that "true" art thrives outside of >the academy comes from outside of the academy. >I'm not sure why "outside of the academy" >artists care whether it thrives, or where. If >their goal is to maintain a folk tradition, they >should be aware of the gains made by Cultural >Studies and disciplines influenced by it. Arts >and arts-based education happens both inside and >outside of our universities. Why do we want to >limit one of the places where it thrives? Why >would ANYONE on this list not want to promote >arts and arts-based education? This position is >not clear to me. At the risk of offending--and >I'm not quite sure how to preempt this--I think >it is partly fueled by jealousy over not >everyone being able to make a good living through arts education. > >Gregg Murray > >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry New from Chax Press: Mark Weiss, As Landscape. $16. Order from http://www.chax.org/poets/weiss.htm "What a beautiful set of circumstances! What a lovely concatenation of particulars. Here is the poet alive in every sense of the word, and through every one of his senses. Instead of missing a beat or a part, Weiss? fragments are like Chekhov?s short stories?the more that gets left out, the more they seem to contain One can hear echoes from all the various ancestors...[but] the voice, at its center, its core, is pure Mark Weiss. His use of the fragment is both elegant and bafflingly clear, a pure musical threnody [it] opens a window, not only into a mind, but a person, a personality, this human figure at the emotional center of the poem." M.G. Stephens, in Jacket. http://jacketmagazine.com/40/r-weiss-rb-stephens.shtml -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd at ripon.edu Sat Oct 16 14:26:35 2010 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2010 13:26:35 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Chile is a land of poets Message-ID: http://www.cnn.com/2010/OPINION/10/15/shapiro.chile.mine.poets/index.html?hpt=C1 Chile is a land of poets, having produced such greats as Nobel-Prize winners Gabriela Mistral and Pablo Neruda as well as world-class practitioners like Vicente Huidobro, Nicanor Parra, Gonzalo Rojas and many, many more. So it must have come as no surprise to Chileans, I imagine, and was undoubtedly considered a "badge of honor" when V?ctor Segovia, one of the Copiap? miners, was dubbed the "mine poet." He had kept a journal and sent messages to the surface of the Atacama Desert during the miners' horrendous ordeal. V?ctor Zamora, another of the miners, was also identified as a poet. ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.me.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Sat Oct 16 14:36:36 2010 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2010 14:36:36 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] WorldPo: Liu Xiaobo Message-ID: <8CD3B7832A64FD9-2158-BE7C@webmail-m080.sysops.aol.com> http://www.gulf-daily-news.com/NewsDetails.aspx?storyid=289174 Ralph Waldo Emerson argued: "The poet is a seer who penetrates the mysteries of the universe and articulates the universal truths that bind humanity together. "Hence, the true poet, who puts into words what others feel but cannot express, speaks for all men and women." One might speculate that these qualities can be found in some political activists. A number of famous poets have been in serious trouble because of their activism. On October 8, Liu Xiaobo won the Nobel Peace Prize. A poet and literary critic, Liu served as a professor at Beijing Normal University and was a leading voice and an influential presence during the student protests in Tiananmen Square in 1989. A co-author of Charter 08, a declaration calling for political reform, the 54-year-old was formally charged with "inciting subversion of state power" in June last year and jailed for 11 years in December. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From greggkirkmurray at yahoo.com Sat Oct 16 14:32:31 2010 From: greggkirkmurray at yahoo.com (greggkirkmurray at yahoo.com) Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2010 18:32:31 +0000 Subject: [New-Poetry] "The Crisis of the Humanities Officially Arrives" In-Reply-To: References: <8CD3B6EAFA1C3F1-2158-B41F@webmail-m080.sysops.aol.com><171499.96754.qm@web110515.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1294553034-1287253949-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1975905001-@bda697.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Forgive me, Mark. I really don't think I'm the only one partly fueled by jealously over those "privileged" few who get to write poetry and not worry about a paycheck because their work is valued. I do apologize for offending you. The comment was not presumptuous, though. Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -----Original Message----- From: Mark Weiss Sender: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2010 14:22:22 To: NewPoetry List Reply-To: NewPoetry List Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] "The Crisis of the Humanities Officially Arrives" _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From jforjames at aol.com Sat Oct 16 15:39:02 2010 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2010 15:39:02 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] "The Crisis of the Humanities Officially Arrives" In-Reply-To: References: <143469.74404.qm@web110508.mail.gq1.yahoo.com><8CD3ACB4CD1E89F-1D10-21C7@webmail-m009.sysops.aol.com><8CD3B6C2F81B471-2158-B184@webmail-m080.sysops.aol.com><8CD3B6EAFA1C3F1-2158-B41F@webmail-m080.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <8CD3B80EB60AED1-2158-CACD@webmail-m080.sysops.aol.com> Before that you probably had to grease Plato's hand with a few drachma before he'd begin to spout the old stories about Socrates. Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: Mark Weiss To: NewPoetry List Sent: Sat, Oct 16, 2010 1:43 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] "The Crisis of the Humanities Officially Arrives" Yup, in the good old days when the profs were all clergy and the church paid for4 the infrastructure (and everyone tithed and the church owned most of the land). Might work. At 01:28 PM 10/16/2010, you wrote: I remember reading that in the early academies, the 'professors' collected the tuition directly from their students. There was probably no better way of determining the value of what you were teaching than direct collection of tuition. Finnegan _______________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Sat Oct 16 15:49:21 2010 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2010 15:49:21 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] PEN Lit Awards 2010 Message-ID: <8CD3B825CC3E93F-2158-CCD5@webmail-m080.sysops.aol.com> http://www.penusa.org/2010LitAwards Poetry: Amy Catanzano: Multiversal (Fordham University Press) / -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sat Oct 16 17:08:10 2010 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2010 16:08:10 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] "The Crisis of the Humanities Officially Arrives" In-Reply-To: <8CD3B6C2F81B471-2158-B184@webmail-m080.sysops.aol.com> References: <143469.74404.qm@web110508.mail.gq1.yahoo.com><8CD3ACB4CD1E89F-1D10-21C7@webmail-m009.sysops.aol.com> <8CD3B6C2F81B471-2158-B184@webmail-m080.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <4CBA143A.20700@nut-n-but.net> On 10/16/2010 12:10 PM, jforjames at aol.com wrote: > I know of a case in an art school where they have a Media Arts > department but no Media Arts majors. It's not a large department (one > full-time professor). There are likely many other art schools with > active enrollments in Media Arts, so it's not a matter of students > being deprived of access. One could argue that all modern art schools > should have a Media Arts requirement, as a core curriculum > requirement. But apparently that is not the case at this institution. > For now, a very small department is being subsidized by other > departments (painting, illustration, graphic design, ceramics, > photography, etc.) with adequate numbers of > enrolled students. Resources are thus being allocated from where > they're needed to a department that is by definition 'defunct'. Though > the art school and the university as a whole may be solvent, the Media > Arts department is bankrupt: No tuitions to offset the expenses of > staff, plant and equipment needed to sustain that small (and now > unutilized) department. Interesting. But I'd be shocked if the department isn't getting use. Would /some /of the art students "cross-train" a little. And what about the campus newspaper. And certainly some of the professors--and why not, on the grounds that it's a kind of pay-raise, and because it could make them better teachers of their regular classes. And having the media arts department there might indeed lure students, or professors. . . . Finally, of course, it should be up to the institution itself, it seems to me. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sat Oct 16 17:14:09 2010 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2010 16:14:09 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] "The Crisis of the Humanities Officially Arrives" In-Reply-To: <57030.99304.qm@web110504.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <57030.99304.qm@web110504.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4CBA15A1.3060205@nut-n-but.net> On 10/16/2010 12:53 PM, Gregg Murray wrote: > Thank God no one's giving you money to write a book. Your logic is > outrageous. > Thanks for pointing that out. I will be sure to correct it. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sat Oct 16 17:17:18 2010 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2010 16:17:18 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] "The Crisis of the Humanities Officially Arrives" In-Reply-To: <52656.39620.qm@web110503.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <52656.39620.qm@web110503.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4CBA165E.9010202@nut-n-but.net> On 10/16/2010 12:59 PM, Gregg Murray wrote: > P.S. Bob, I would like to note that I do find your poetry very > interesting and deserving of funding. It's your criticism I have to > question. > Yeeks, Gregg, now I have a choice between deciding that you aren't competent to critique my ideas on education or my poetry. Maybe you just know more about my poetry, or less. Or maybe what you do is not in some way in competition with my poetry but is with my views on education. Which I'm sure are logical, though the premises may be screwy. Before I accept that they are, though, I'll need to know which ones are screwy and why. --Bob > > > --- On *Sat, 10/16/10, Bob Grumman //* wrote: > > > From: Bob Grumman > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] "The Crisis of the Humanities Officially > Arrives" > To: "NewPoetry List" > Date: Saturday, October 16, 2010, 6:24 AM > > I would say socialism is as much at fault as capitalism--the > government essentially makes people pay for college degrees (while > socialistically subsidizing colleges, and giving gov't-certified > ones a monopoly) by making almost every well-paying job require > one--and the kids take courses they like in order to get a degree > without worrying about learning anything of value because in our > world, credentials count, abilities don't. > > --Bob > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Sat Oct 16 16:18:44 2010 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2010 22:18:44 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] "The Crisis of the Humanities Officially Arrives" In-Reply-To: <8CD3B80EB60AED1-2158-CACD@webmail-m080.sysops.aol.com> References: <143469.74404.qm@web110508.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <8CD3ACB4CD1E89F-1D10-21C7@webmail-m009.sysops.aol.com> <8CD3B6C2F81B471-2158-B184@webmail-m080.sysops.aol.com> <8CD3B6EAFA1C3F1-2158-B41F@webmail-m080.sysops.aol.com> <8CD3B80EB60AED1-2158-CACD@webmail-m080.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: And what about our fat Aristotle? On Sat, Oct 16, 2010 at 9:39 PM, wrote: > Before that you probably had to grease Plato's hand with a few drachma > before he'd begin to spout the old stories about Socrates. > Finnegan > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Mark Weiss > To: NewPoetry List > Sent: Sat, Oct 16, 2010 1:43 pm > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] "The Crisis of the Humanities Officially Arrives" > > Yup, in the good old days when the profs were all clergy and the church > paid for4 the infrastructure (and everyone tithed and the church owned most > of the land). Might work. > > At 01:28 PM 10/16/2010, you wrote: > > I remember reading that in the early academies, the 'professors' collected > the tuition directly from their students. There was probably no better way > of determining the value of what you were teaching than direct collection of > tuition. > > Finnegan > _______________________________________________ > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Sat Oct 16 16:19:49 2010 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2010 22:19:49 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] "The Crisis of the Humanities Officially Arrives" In-Reply-To: <4CBA165E.9010202@nut-n-but.net> References: <52656.39620.qm@web110503.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <4CBA165E.9010202@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: Never ask that question, Bob, we might not survive the Deluge of mails. On Sat, Oct 16, 2010 at 11:17 PM, Bob Grumman wrote: > On 10/16/2010 12:59 PM, Gregg Murray wrote: > > P.S. Bob, I would like to note that I do find your poetry very > interesting and deserving of funding. It's your criticism I have to > question. > > Yeeks, Gregg, now I have a choice between deciding that you aren't > competent to critique my ideas on education or my poetry. Maybe you just > know more about my poetry, or less. Or maybe what you do is not in some way > in competition with my poetry but is with my views on education. Which I'm > sure are logical, though the premises may be screwy. Before I accept that > they are, though, I'll need to know which ones are screwy and why. > > --Bob > > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sat Oct 16 17:27:32 2010 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2010 16:27:32 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] "The Crisis of the Humanities Officially Arrives" In-Reply-To: References: <143469.74404.qm@web110508.mail.gq1.yahoo.com><8CD3ACB4CD1E89F-1D10-21C7@webmail-m009.sysops.aol.com><8CD3B6C2F81B471-2158-B184@webmail-m080.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <4CBA18C4.60909@nut-n-but.net> On 10/16/2010 1:00 PM, Mark Weiss wrote: > Again, it's a matter of what we want from an education for ourselves > and others. We could give elementary school kids choice over what to > study and it would be all recess. We could go on forever about this. Will just say that I'm sure you're wrong. When I was a kid, I spent summers doing a lot of "recess," but reading, too, and being taught how to skin a squirrel by a friend's father, and building tree-huts (elementary carpentry), and finding out things. In a school environment, I'm sure that I and many like me would get bored with recesses and happily go where a teacher had volunteered to give a talk on dinosaurs, or do art, or participate in math contests. But we needn't be extreme. We could require reading periods for all children who hadn't learned enough to read on their own, and a little math--and penmanship. I can't think of anything else necessary. I don't have the opinion of educable 18-year-olds that you have. I didn't know much then, and skipped college until I was 30, and the GI bill paid me to go to a free college in Califiornia. I was an exception, no doubt, although I've met plenty of others who managed to find out as much of importance about life and some reasonably important vocation without college not to believe many 18-year-olds don't need indoctrination. I also believe that the few that do won't be able to use it for anything of much value. A minority view, I'm sure, and one I don't have time to keep babbling about. --Bob > ave a ton of money on staff. That's the direction colleges are going > in. We don't use a consumer-driven business model for elementary > students and we shouldn't for colleges. We're talking about eighteen > year olds most of whom are barely above functional illiteracy when > they start college, mst of whom have never read a newspaper and never > read a book that wasn't assigned, and didn't read those if there were > cliffnotes. > > If those who plan curricula require of students what they think > students need to become minimally educated the problem > disappears--there are no undersubscribed courses. > > Probably too late now, tho--most of the faculty are products of the > kinds of universities that don't think they should require much of > their students. Read some recent dissertations and you'll see what I > mean. And even then, you're often reading the prose of hired guns--one > of my friends makes a good living translating social science > dissertations from inchoate into English. > > I realize that what I'm saying could be taken as elitism. OK, I'm fine > with that. And that it implies a canon. That's OK too. As long as the > study of that canon teaches the student how to study whatever else > falls under his or her gaze. > > At 01:10 PM 10/16/2010, you wrote: >> I know of a case in an art school where they have a Media Arts >> department but no Media Arts majors. It's not a large department (one >> full-time professor). There are likely many other art schools with >> active enrollments in Media Arts, so it's not a matter of students >> being deprived of access. One could argue that all modern art schools >> should have a Media Arts requirement, as a core curriculum >> requirement. But apparently that is not the case at this institution. >> For now, a very small department is being subsidized by other >> departments (painting, illustration, graphic design, ceramics, >> photography, etc.) with adequate numbers of enrolled students. >> Resources are thus being allocated from where they're needed to a >> department that is by definition 'defunct'. Though the art school and >> the university as a whole may be solvent, the Media Arts department >> is bankrupt: No tuitions to offset the expenses of staff, plant and >> equipment needed to sustain that small (and now unutilized) department. >> >> Going back to the contractual agreement, there was counterparty risk >> when the contract was entered into: Risk that the entity who made a >> promise to pay for services cannot financially deliver on that >> promise. The university may come to point where it must default on >> its promises under the contract. >> So I guess it's a question of should society, in the case of a >> state-funded school, or a private institution expect to subsidize >> certain academic areas just to know they're there and available, >> should anyone wish to pursue that discipline? . >> Finnegan >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Mark Weiss >> To: NewPoetry List >> Sent: Fri, Oct 15, 2010 6:23 pm >> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] "The Crisis of the Humanities Officially >> Arrives" >> >> This does happen to an extent, but almost exclusively with state >> systems (an exception is the hybrid five college system in the >> Amherst-Northampton area). Otherwise it's separate and usually >> incompatible corporate structures. >> >> There are two issues here that are I think unique to higher >> education. One is that during flush times for a given department >> hires were made for the needed personnel on the basis of >> tenure--Professor x chose school y instead of z because it offered a >> given pay package, prestige, and work conditions, including >> irrevocable tenure (barring morals problems or incapacity). The >> university can only discharge the prof if the department is shut >> down. Even if say French became part of a new entity called modern >> languages all of those tenured in french would have to renegotiate. >> So the agreed-upon terms of employment are unilaterally changed. >> >> Demand fluctuates. Maybe a major oil strike in Guyane or francophone >> Africa changes power and economic balances and there's a sudden need >> for more French speakers (as there was during the cold war for >> Russian speakers). Starting departments from scratch takes time. And >> the pool of applicants for positions in the field will presumably >> have shrunk because of lack of jobs in the interim. >> >> Another cause of fluctuation is what institutions and the educational >> system at large considers the goals of education. It used to be that >> everyone was required to take several years of a foreign language, >> maybe two languages, and more for advanced degrees. When I was in >> grad school I needed three plus anglosaxon. Even science types had to >> learn German once upon a time, when that was the language of a good >> bit of science. One can't assume that the hegemony of English will be >> eternal. This wasn't just for utilitarian reasons--it was considered >> a part of an education, and that's what parents and students paid for. >> >> Change the goals of education and personnel needs change. Now that >> universities are making increasingly narrowly utilitarian decisions, >> based not only on what the economy is perceived to need but on the >> whims of students, almost all humanities and political science >> departments are under threat. >> >> And the quality of education of what we call the educated continues >> to plummet here in comparison to most other places. >> >> Best, >> >> Mark >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > New from Chax Press: Mark Weiss, /As Landscape. > /$16. Order from http://www.chax.org/poets/weiss.htm > > > "What a beautiful set of circumstances! What a lovely concatenation of > particulars. Here is the poet alive in every sense of the word, and > through every one of his senses. Instead of missing a beat or a part, > Weiss' fragments are like Chekhov's short stories?the more that gets > left out, the more they seem to contain... One can hear echoes from > all the various ancestors...[but] the voice, at its center, its core, > is pure Mark Weiss. His use of the fragment is both elegant and > bafflingly clear, a pure musical threnody...[it] opens a window, not > only into a mind, but a person, a personality, this human figure at > the emotional center of the poem." > > M.G. Stephens, in Jacket. > http://jacketmagazine.com/40/r-weiss-rb-stephens.shtml > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sat Oct 16 17:52:47 2010 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2010 16:52:47 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] "The Crisis of the Humanities Officially Arrives" In-Reply-To: References: <52656.39620.qm@web110503.mail.gq1.yahoo.com><4CBA165E.9010202@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <4CBA1EAF.2040004@nut-n-but.net> On 10/16/2010 3:19 PM, Anny Ballardini wrote: > Never ask that question, Bob, we might not survive the Deluge of mails. Nah. If you mean about which of my views is screwy--because I also want to know why, and few if anyone is up to answering that. --Bob > > On Sat, Oct 16, 2010 at 11:17 PM, Bob Grumman > > wrote: > > On 10/16/2010 12:59 PM, Gregg Murray wrote: >> P.S. Bob, I would like to note that I do find your poetry very >> interesting and deserving of funding. It's your criticism I have >> to question. >> > Yeeks, Gregg, now I have a choice between deciding that you aren't > competent to critique my ideas on education or my poetry. Maybe > you just know more about my poetry, or less. Or maybe what you do > is not in some way in competition with my poetry but is with my > views on education. Which I'm sure are logical, though the > premises may be screwy. Before I accept that they are, though, > I'll need to know which ones are screwy and why. > > --Bob > >> >> > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From junction at earthlink.net Sat Oct 16 16:49:25 2010 From: junction at earthlink.net (Mark Weiss) Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2010 16:49:25 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] "The Crisis of the Humanities Officially Arrives" In-Reply-To: <8CD3B80EB60AED1-2158-CACD@webmail-m080.sysops.aol.com> References: <143469.74404.qm@web110508.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <8CD3ACB4CD1E89F-1D10-21C7@webmail-m009.sysops.aol.com> <8CD3B6C2F81B471-2158-B184@webmail-m080.sysops.aol.com> <8CD3B6EAFA1C3F1-2158-B41F@webmail-m080.sysops.aol.com> <8CD3B80EB60AED1-2158-CACD@webmail-m080.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: Nope, he worked for free. The privilege of the patrician class. Tho he did appreciate a party invite. At 03:39 PM 10/16/2010, you wrote: >Before that you probably had to grease Plato's >hand with a few drachma before he'd begin to >spout the old stories about Socrates. >Finnegan > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Mark Weiss >To: NewPoetry List >Sent: Sat, Oct 16, 2010 1:43 pm >Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] "The Crisis of the Humanities Officially Arrives" > >Yup, in the good old days when the profs were >all clergy and the church paid for4 the >infrastructure (and everyone tithed and the >church owned most of the land). Might work. > >At 01:28 PM 10/16/2010, you wrote: >>I remember reading that in the early academies, >>the 'professors' collected the tuition directly >>from their students. There was probably no >>better way of determining the value of what you >>were teaching than direct collection of tuition. >> >>Finnegan >>_______________________________________________ >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry New from Chax Press: Mark Weiss, As Landscape. $16. Order from http://www.chax.org/poets/weiss.htm "What a beautiful set of circumstances! What a lovely concatenation of particulars. Here is the poet alive in every sense of the word, and through every one of his senses. Instead of missing a beat or a part, Weiss? fragments are like Chekhov?s short stories?the more that gets left out, the more they seem to contain One can hear echoes from all the various ancestors...[but] the voice, at its center, its core, is pure Mark Weiss. His use of the fragment is both elegant and bafflingly clear, a pure musical threnody [it] opens a window, not only into a mind, but a person, a personality, this human figure at the emotional center of the poem." M.G. Stephens, in Jacket. http://jacketmagazine.com/40/r-weiss-rb-stephens.shtml -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From junction at earthlink.net Sat Oct 16 16:53:54 2010 From: junction at earthlink.net (Mark Weiss) Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2010 16:53:54 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] "The Crisis of the Humanities Officially Arrives" In-Reply-To: <4CBA18C4.60909@nut-n-but.net> References: <143469.74404.qm@web110508.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <8CD3ACB4CD1E89F-1D10-21C7@webmail-m009.sysops.aol.com> <8CD3B6C2F81B471-2158-B184@webmail-m080.sysops.aol.com> <4CBA18C4.60909@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: Lots of exceptions, sure, but teaching freshman comp as I have in the past doesn't give one a very rosy picture of their educational attainments or drive. At 05:27 PM 10/16/2010, you wrote: >On 10/16/2010 1:00 PM, Mark Weiss wrote: >>Again, it's a matter of what we want from an >>education for ourselves and others. We could >>give elementary school kids choice over what to >>study and it would be all recess. > >We could go on forever about this. Will just >say that I'm sure you're wrong. When I was a >kid, I spent summers doing a lot of "recess," >but reading, too, and being taught how to skin a >squirrel by a friend's father, and building >tree-huts (elementary carpentry), and finding >out things. In a school environment, I'm sure >that I and many like me would get bored with >recesses and happily go where a teacher had >volunteered to give a talk on dinosaurs, or do >art, or participate in math contests. But we >needn't be extreme. We could require reading >periods for all children who hadn't learned >enough to read on their own, and a little >math--and penmanship. I can't think of anything else necessary. > >I don't have the opinion of educable >18-year-olds that you have. I didn't know much >then, and skipped college until I was 30, and >the GI bill paid me to go to a free college in >Califiornia. I was an exception, no doubt, >although I've met plenty of others who managed >to find out as much of importance about life and >some reasonably important vocation without >college not to believe many 18-year-olds don't >need indoctrination. I also believe that the >few that do won't be able to use it for anything of much value. > >A minority view, I'm sure, and one I don't have time to keep babbling about. > >--Bob > > > >>ave a ton of money on staff. That's the >>direction colleges are going in. We don't use a >>consumer-driven business model for elementary >>students and we shouldn't for colleges. We're >>talking about eighteen year olds most of whom >>are barely above functional illiteracy when >>they start college, mst of whom have never read >>a newspaper and never read a book that wasn't >>assigned, and didn't read those if there were cliffnotes. >> >>If those who plan curricula require of students >>what they think students need to become >>minimally educated the problem >>disappears--there are no undersubscribed courses. >> >>Probably too late now, tho--most of the faculty >>are products of the kinds of universities that >>don't think they should require much of their >>students. Read some recent dissertations and >>you'll see what I mean. And even then, you're >>often reading the prose of hired guns--one of >>my friends makes a good living translating >>social science dissertations from inchoate into English. >> >>I realize that what I'm saying could be taken >>as elitism. OK, I'm fine with that. And that it >>implies a canon. That's OK too. As long as the >>study of that canon teaches the student how to >>study whatever else falls under his or her gaze. >> >>At 01:10 PM 10/16/2010, you wrote: >>>I know of a case in an art school where they >>>have a Media Arts department but no Media Arts >>>majors. It's not a large department (one >>>full-time professor). There are likely many >>>other art schools with active enrollments in >>>Media Arts, so it's not a matter of students >>>being deprived of access. One could argue that >>>all modern art schools should have a Media >>>Arts requirement, as a core curriculum >>>requirement. But apparently that is not the >>>case at this institution. For now, a very >>>small department is being subsidized by other >>>departments (painting, illustration, graphic >>>design, ceramics, photography, etc.) with >>>adequate numbers of enrolled students. >>>Resources are thus being allocated from where >>>they're needed to a department that is by >>>definition 'defunct'. Though the art school >>>and the university as a whole may be solvent, >>>the Media Arts department is bankrupt: No >>>tuitions to offset the expenses of staff, >>>plant and equipment needed to sustain that >>>small (and now unutilized) department. >>> >>>Going back to the contractual agreement, there >>>was counterparty risk when the contract was >>>entered into: Risk that the entity who made a >>>promise to pay for services cannot financially >>>deliver on that promise. The university may >>>come to point where it must default on its promises under the contract. >>>So I guess it's a question of should society, >>>in the case of a state-funded school, or a >>>private institution expect to subsidize >>>certain academic areas just to know they're >>>there and available, should anyone wish to pursue that discipline? . >>>Finnegan >>>-----Original Message----- >>>From: Mark Weiss >>>To: NewPoetry List >>> >>>Sent: Fri, Oct 15, 2010 6:23 pm >>>Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] "The Crisis of the Humanities Officially Arrives" >>> >>>This does happen to an extent, but almost >>>exclusively with state systems (an exception >>>is the hybrid five college system in the >>>Amherst-Northampton area). Otherwise it's >>>separate and usually incompatible corporate structures. >>> >>>There are two issues here that are I think >>>unique to higher education. One is that during >>>flush times for a given department hires were >>>made for the needed personnel on the basis of >>>tenure--Professor x chose school y instead of >>>z because it offered a given pay package, >>>prestige, and work conditions, including >>>irrevocable tenure (barring morals problems or >>>incapacity). The university can only discharge >>>the prof if the department is shut down. Even >>>if say French became part of a new entity >>>called modern languages all of those tenured >>>in french would have to renegotiate. So the >>>agreed-upon terms of employment are unilaterally changed. >>> >>>Demand fluctuates. Maybe a major oil strike in >>>Guyane or francophone Africa changes power and >>>economic balances and there's a sudden need >>>for more French speakers (as there was during >>>the cold war for Russian speakers). Starting >>>departments from scratch takes time. And the >>>pool of applicants for positions in the field >>>will presumably have shrunk because of lack of jobs in the interim. >>> >>>Another cause of fluctuation is what >>>institutions and the educational system at >>>large considers the goals of education. It >>>used to be that everyone was required to take >>>several years of a foreign language, maybe two >>>languages, and more for advanced degrees. When >>>I was in grad school I needed three plus >>>anglosaxon. Even science types had to learn >>>German once upon a time, when that was the >>>language of a good bit of science. One can't >>>assume that the hegemony of English will be >>>eternal. This wasn't just for utilitarian >>>reasons--it was considered a part of an >>>education, and that's what parents and students paid for. >>> >>>Change the goals of education and personnel >>>needs change. Now that universities are making >>>increasingly narrowly utilitarian decisions, >>>based not only on what the economy is >>>perceived to need but on the whims of >>>students, almost all humanities and political >>>science departments are under threat. >>> >>>And the quality of education of what we call >>>the educated continues to plummet here in comparison to most other places. >>> >>>Best, >>> >>>Mark >>>_______________________________________________ >>>New-Poetry mailing list >>>New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>>http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> >> >>New from Chax Press: Mark Weiss, As Landscape. >>$16. Order from http://www.chax.org/poets/weiss.htm >> >> >>"What a beautiful set of circumstances! What a >>lovely concatenation of particulars. Here is >>the poet alive in every sense of the word, and >>through every one of his senses. Instead of >>missing a beat or a part, Weiss? fragments are >>like Chekhov?s short stories?the more that gets >>left out, the more they seem to contain One >>can hear echoes from all the various >>ancestors...[but] the voice, at its center, its >>core, is pure Mark Weiss. His use of the >>fragment is both elegant and bafflingly clear, >>a pure musical threnody [it] opens a window, >>not only into a mind, but a person, a >>personality, this human figure at the emotional center of the poem." >> >>M.G. Stephens, in Jacket. >>http://jacketmagazine.com/40/r-weiss-rb-stephens.shtml >> >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>New-Poetry mailing list >>New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry New from Chax Press: Mark Weiss, As Landscape. $16. Order from http://www.chax.org/poets/weiss.htm "What a beautiful set of circumstances! What a lovely concatenation of particulars. Here is the poet alive in every sense of the word, and through every one of his senses. Instead of missing a beat or a part, Weiss? fragments are like Chekhov?s short stories?the more that gets left out, the more they seem to contain One can hear echoes from all the various ancestors...[but] the voice, at its center, its core, is pure Mark Weiss. His use of the fragment is both elegant and bafflingly clear, a pure musical threnody [it] opens a window, not only into a mind, but a person, a personality, this human figure at the emotional center of the poem." M.G. Stephens, in Jacket. http://jacketmagazine.com/40/r-weiss-rb-stephens.shtml -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From junction at earthlink.net Sat Oct 16 16:48:23 2010 From: junction at earthlink.net (Mark Weiss) Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2010 16:48:23 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] "The Crisis of the Humanities Officially Arrives" In-Reply-To: <1294553034-1287253949-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim .net-1975905001-@bda697.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> References: <8CD3B6EAFA1C3F1-2158-B41F@webmail-m080.sysops.aol.com> <171499.96754.qm@web110515.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <1294553034-1287253949-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1975905001-@bda697.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Message-ID: It was offensive, but I wasn't personally offended. At 02:32 PM 10/16/2010, you wrote: >Forgive me, Mark. I really don't think I'm the >only one partly fueled by jealously over those >"privileged" few who get to write poetry and not >worry about a paycheck because their work is >valued. I do apologize for offending you. The >comment was not presumptuous, though. > >Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry > >-----Original Message----- >From: Mark Weiss >Sender: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu >Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2010 14:22:22 >To: NewPoetry List >Reply-To: NewPoetry List >Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] "The Crisis of the Humanities Officially Arrives" > >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry New from Chax Press: Mark Weiss, As Landscape. $16. Order from http://www.chax.org/poets/weiss.htm "What a beautiful set of circumstances! What a lovely concatenation of particulars. Here is the poet alive in every sense of the word, and through every one of his senses. Instead of missing a beat or a part, Weiss? fragments are like Chekhov?s short stories?the more that gets left out, the more they seem to contain One can hear echoes from all the various ancestors...[but] the voice, at its center, its core, is pure Mark Weiss. His use of the fragment is both elegant and bafflingly clear, a pure musical threnody [it] opens a window, not only into a mind, but a person, a personality, this human figure at the emotional center of the poem." M.G. Stephens, in Jacket. http://jacketmagazine.com/40/r-weiss-rb-stephens.shtml -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd at ripon.edu Sat Oct 16 17:02:15 2010 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2010 16:02:15 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Waiting for the Crisis in the Humanities Message-ID: <105DF166-D09B-41BF-96C5-E3DD92BCD22F@ripon.edu> Seeing the apparently endless number of posts in my in-box with the phrase "the crisis of the humanities" in them, I confess that I have half forgotten which particular crisis triggered this latest outpouring. But I've been hearing about such crises my whole adult life, and begin to suspect that in some way this crisis may be like Cavafy's barbarians--always anticipated, never *quite* arriving. As humanists, we thrive on crisis. In any case, I'm pretty sure that the sense of crisis began not long after the Humanities did. Which is not to deny that many things have been rapidly changing in higher education, especially since the GI Bill was enacted. Nor am I happy about many things I've seen. Still, I'm a little wary of generalizations, dire or otherwise, about such a variegated, ever-evolving and complex enterprise. Nor am I convinced, despite many grand pronouncements over the years, that things have been running *entirely* downhill. Despite the many laments for lost traditions, few people that I'm aware of would want to return to the Humanities as they were taught, say, in 1890 or 1930. My own experience may be odd. I have put in my time teaching English at three big research universities--U Massachusetts, Virginia Tech, and U North Carolina. That's the kind of school most people who write op-eds are thinking of. But for the past 23 years I've been toiling in a very different environment, a small, rather traditionally conceived liberal arts college. No graduate schools, no writing program, not even any separate "tracks" within the English major here. As such we are, I suppose, an endangered breed of school; and certainly we don't have the numbers, nationally. But here we are. Yes, we've evolved, too, but isn't that the nature of the educational enterprise? Yet the Barbarians are at the gate, where they've always been. . . . ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.me.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Sat Oct 16 17:19:49 2010 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2010 17:19:49 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] "The Crisis of the Humanities Officially Arrives" In-Reply-To: References: <143469.74404.qm@web110508.mail.gq1.yahoo.com><8CD3ACB4CD1E89F-1D10-21C7@webmail-m009.sysops.aol.com><8CD3B6C2F81B471-2158-B184@webmail-m080.sysops.aol.com><8CD3B6EAFA1C3F1-2158-B41F@webmail-m080.sysops.aol.com><8CD3B80EB60AED1-2158-CACD@webmail-m080.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <8CD3B8EFFCB44A8-2158-DA1D@webmail-m080.sysops.aol.com> I stand corrected. But the Sophists got paid to play the knowledge game. -----Original Message----- From: Mark Weiss To: NewPoetry List Sent: Sat, Oct 16, 2010 4:49 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] "The Crisis of the Humanities Officially Arrives" Nope, he worked for free. The privilege of the patrician class. Tho he did appreciate a party invite. At 03:39 PM 10/16/2010, you wrote: Before that you probably had to grease Plato's hand with a few drachma before he'd begin to spout the old stories about Socrates. Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: Mark Weiss To: NewPoetry List Sent: Sat, Oct 16, 2010 1:43 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] "The Crisis of the Humanities Officially Arrives" Yup, in the good old days when the profs were all clergy and the church paid for4 the infrastructure (and everyone tithed and the church owned most of the land). Might work. At 01:28 PM 10/16/2010, you wrote: I remember reading that in the early academies, the 'professors' collected the tuition directly from their students. There was probably no better way of determining the value of what you were teaching than direct collection of tuition. Finnegan _______________________________________________ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry New from Chax Press: Mark Weiss, As Landscape. $16. Order from http://www.chax.org/poets/weiss.htm "What a beautiful set of circumstances! What a lovely concatenation of particulars. Here is the poet alive in every sense of the word, and through every one of his senses. Instead of missing a beat or a part, Weiss? fragments are like Chekhov?s short stories?the more that gets left out, the more they seem to contain? One can hear echoes from all the various ancestors...[but] the voice, at its center, its core, is pure Mark Weiss. His use of the fragment is both elegant and bafflingly clear, a pure musical threnody?[it] opens a window, not only into a mind, but a person, a personality, this human figure at the emotional center of the poem." M.G. Stephens, in Jacket. http://jacketmagazine.com/40/r-weiss-rb-stephens.shtml _______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jschickl at hotmail.com Sat Oct 16 17:20:15 2010 From: jschickl at hotmail.com (Jared Schickling) Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2010 15:20:15 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] curriculum In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I'm reminded of Dorothy Lee writing on Dakota parents -- before age five or whatever kids weren't given the names of things. Names were in those formative years to be discovered, post-engagement. A dad points to a tree -- and that's it -- "When I was a kid, I spent summers doing a lot of "recess," but reading, too, and being taught how to skin a squirrel by a friend's father, and building tree-huts (elementary carpentry), and finding out things. In a school environment, I'm sure that I and many like me would get bored with recesses and happily go where a teacher had volunteered to give a talk on dinosaurs, or do art, or participate in math contests. But we needn't be extreme..." -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From robin.hamilton3 at virginmedia.com Sat Oct 16 17:36:59 2010 From: robin.hamilton3 at virginmedia.com (Robin Hamilton) Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2010 22:36:59 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] "The Crisis of the Humanities Officially Arrives" In-Reply-To: <8CD3B8EFFCB44A8-2158-DA1D@webmail-m080.sysops.aol.com> References: <143469.74404.qm@web110508.mail.gq1.yahoo.com><8CD3ACB4CD1E89F-1D10-21C7@webmail-m009.sysops.aol.com><8CD3B6C2F81B471-2158-B184@webmail-m080.sysops.aol.com><8CD3B6EAFA1C3F1-2158-B41F@webmail-m080.sysops.aol.com><8CD3B80EB60AED1-2158-CACD@webmail-m080.sysops.aol.com> <8CD3B8EFFCB44A8-2158-DA1D@webmail-m080.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <15CB327511AD4A39BACCE2AFBB848CC4@OwnerPC> I stand corrected. But the Sophists got paid to play the knowledge game. One reason why Socrates objected to them. He worked for free as well, and he wasn't a member of the Athenian uppers. Though he was never exactly poor. Or a slave. Or a woman. Robin -----Original Message----- From: Mark Weiss To: NewPoetry List Sent: Sat, Oct 16, 2010 4:49 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] "The Crisis of the Humanities Officially Arrives" Nope, he worked for free. The privilege of the patrician class. Tho he did appreciate a party invite. At 03:39 PM 10/16/2010, you wrote: Before that you probably had to grease Plato's hand with a few drachma before he'd begin to spout the old stories about Socrates. Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: Mark Weiss To: NewPoetry List Sent: Sat, Oct 16, 2010 1:43 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] "The Crisis of the Humanities Officially Arrives" Yup, in the good old days when the profs were all clergy and the church paid for4 the infrastructure (and everyone tithed and the church owned most of the land). Might work. At 01:28 PM 10/16/2010, you wrote: I remember reading that in the early academies, the 'professors' collected the tuition directly from their students. There was probably no better way of determining the value of what you were teaching than direct collection of tuition. Finnegan _______________________________________________ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry New from Chax Press: Mark Weiss, As Landscape. $16. Order from http://www.chax.org/poets/weiss.htm "What a beautiful set of circumstances! What a lovely concatenation of particulars. Here is the poet alive in every sense of the word, and through every one of his senses. Instead of missing a beat or a part, Weiss? fragments are like Chekhov?s short stories?the more that gets left out, the more they seem to contain? One can hear echoes from all the various ancestors...[but] the voice, at its center, its core, is pure Mark Weiss. His use of the fragment is both elegant and bafflingly clear, a pure musical threnody?[it] opens a window, not only into a mind, but a person, a personality, this human figure at the emotional center of the poem." M.G. Stephens, in Jacket. http://jacketmagazine.com/40/r-weiss-rb-stephens.shtml _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From junction at earthlink.net Sat Oct 16 17:51:51 2010 From: junction at earthlink.net (Mark Weiss) Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2010 17:51:51 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] curriculum In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: It's a nice story, but unless the parents never spoke in the kids' presence and the kids were segregated by age it's information they would have gathered anyway. At 05:20 PM 10/16/2010, you wrote: >I'm reminded of Dorothy Lee writing on Dakota >parents -- before age five or whatever >kids weren't given the names of things. Names >were in those formative years to be >discovered, post-engagement. A dad points to a tree -- and that's it -- > >"When I was a kid, I spent summers doing a lot of "recess," but >reading, too, and being taught how to skin a squirrel by a friend's >father, and building tree-huts (elementary carpentry), and finding out >things. In a school environment, I'm sure that I and many like me would >get bored with recesses and happily go where a teacher had volunteered >to give a talk on dinosaurs, or do art, or participate in math >contests. But we needn't be extreme..." > >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry New from Chax Press: Mark Weiss, As Landscape. $16. Order from http://www.chax.org/poets/weiss.htm "What a beautiful set of circumstances! What a lovely concatenation of particulars. Here is the poet alive in every sense of the word, and through every one of his senses. Instead of missing a beat or a part, Weiss? fragments are like Chekhov?s short stories?the more that gets left out, the more they seem to contain One can hear echoes from all the various ancestors...[but] the voice, at its center, its core, is pure Mark Weiss. His use of the fragment is both elegant and bafflingly clear, a pure musical threnody [it] opens a window, not only into a mind, but a person, a personality, this human figure at the emotional center of the poem." M.G. Stephens, in Jacket. http://jacketmagazine.com/40/r-weiss-rb-stephens.shtml -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From david.weinstock at gmail.com Sat Oct 16 19:31:03 2010 From: david.weinstock at gmail.com (David Weinstock) Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2010 19:31:03 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] curriculum In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: "Many years later, as he faced the firing squad, Colonel Aureliano Buend?a was to remember that distant afternoon when his father took him to discover ice." From junction at earthlink.net Sat Oct 16 19:54:36 2010 From: junction at earthlink.net (Mark Weiss) Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2010 19:54:36 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] curriculum In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I've actually seen this repeatedly. I live in a latinamerican neighborhood. Every time it snows the park nest to my apartment is filled with ecstatic families discovering snow for the first time. At 07:31 PM 10/16/2010, you wrote: > "Many years later, as he faced the firing > squad, Colonel Aureliano Buend??a was to > remember that distant afternoon when his father > took him to discover ice." > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry New from Chax Press: Mark Weiss, As Landscape. $16. Order from http://www.chax.org/poets/weiss.htm "What a beautiful set of circumstances! What a lovely concatenation of particulars. Here is the poet alive in every sense of the word, and through every one of his senses. Instead of missing a beat or a part, Weiss? fragments are like Chekhov?s short stories?the more that gets left out, the more they seem to contain One can hear echoes from all the various ancestors...[but] the voice, at its center, its core, is pure Mark Weiss. His use of the fragment is both elegant and bafflingly clear, a pure musical threnody [it] opens a window, not only into a mind, but a person, a personality, this human figure at the emotional center of the poem." M.G. Stephens, in Jacket. http://jacketmagazine.com/40/r-weiss-rb-stephens.shtml -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From orpheecd at yahoo.com Sun Oct 17 02:33:40 2010 From: orpheecd at yahoo.com (orphee) Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2010 23:33:40 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Toot In-Reply-To: <4CB8912F.8000207@nut-n-but.net> References: <832099.83522.qm@web33306.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <4CB8912F.8000207@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <48636.5903.qm@web33304.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Sigh ~ As a that notorious professor does ~ the pathetic fallacy? intention is a cloud with dark underlings ~ ________________________________ From: Bob Grumman To: NewPoetry List Sent: Fri, October 15, 2010 1:36:47 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Toot On 10/15/2010 10:58 AM, orphee wrote: I dont agree with this sort of spotting > > >I say Whitman and Poe. Beside each other. And loving one's daddy is >neither here nor there. Poetry has no fathers. >Filial piety has its place, but it's not the measure of what >constitutes the value of poetry. > Nor was it intended to be anything like that in the post you're referring to. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From orpheecd at yahoo.com Sun Oct 17 02:40:07 2010 From: orpheecd at yahoo.com (orphee) Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2010 23:40:07 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] the crisis? of books and loot In-Reply-To: <4CBA15A1.3060205@nut-n-but.net> References: <57030.99304.qm@web110504.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <4CBA15A1.3060205@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <422564.11397.qm@web33302.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Another long sigh ~ words are loot, so loot for loot. what's the big deal except that a bunch of hypocrites run the show ie . the banks, or as we say in whory old france, les banques . Cheers. its driveling cold and the wankers here are on strike cause they are worried about their little retirement packets. Well nearly all the big bad frenchy poets were broke, so screw that. Right Charles, correct Arthur, do I err Tristan Corbiere? Money is shit . Cheers. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From orpheecd at yahoo.com Sun Oct 17 02:42:19 2010 From: orpheecd at yahoo.com (orphee) Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2010 23:42:19 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Fueled by Jealousy opps Envy! In-Reply-To: References: <8CD3B6EAFA1C3F1-2158-B41F@webmail-m080.sysops.aol.com> <171499.96754.qm@web110515.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <1294553034-1287253949-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1975905001-@bda697.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Message-ID: <840501.69997.qm@web33307.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Envy is the common currency of poetry, and every poetry whore knows this. Let others camp on their platitudes and denial of whoredom. I have said it before and shall say it again, every poet is a whore who aint' working. So why why stand down from the truth. ________________________________ From: Mark Weiss To: NewPoetry List Sent: Sat, October 16, 2010 4:48:23 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] "The Crisis of the Humanities Officially Arrives" It was offensive, but I wasn't personally offended. At 02:32 PM 10/16/2010, you wrote: Forgive me, Mark. I really don't think I'm the only one partly fueled by jealously over those "privileged" few who get to write poetry and not worry about a paycheck because their work is valued. I do apologize for offending you. The comment was not presumptuous, though. > >Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry > >-----Original Message----- >From: Mark Weiss >Sender: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu >Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2010 14:22:22 >To: NewPoetry List >Reply-To: NewPoetry List >Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] "The Crisis of the Humanities Officially Arrives" > >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry New from Chax Press: Mark Weiss, As Landscape. $16. Order from http://www.chax.org/poets/weiss.htm "What a beautiful set of circumstances! What a lovely concatenation of particulars. Here is the poet alive in every sense of the word, and through every one of his senses. Instead of missing a beat or a part, Weiss? fragments are like Chekhov?s short stories?the more that gets left out, the more they seem to contain? One can hear echoes from all the various ancestors...[but] the voice, at its center, its core, is pure Mark Weiss. His use of the fragment is both elegant and bafflingly clear, a pure musical threnody?[it] opens a window, not only into a mind, but a person, a personality, this human figure at the emotional center of the poem." M.G. Stephens, in Jacket. http://jacketmagazine.com/40/r-weiss-rb-stephens.shtml -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Sun Oct 17 04:49:12 2010 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2010 10:49:12 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fueled by Jealousy opps Envy! In-Reply-To: <840501.69997.qm@web33307.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <8CD3B6EAFA1C3F1-2158-B41F@webmail-m080.sysops.aol.com> <171499.96754.qm@web110515.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <1294553034-1287253949-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1975905001-@bda697.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> <840501.69997.qm@web33307.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: *Retiens ta langue, Orphee.* in other words, this is not the list to let out your hatred, there are plenty all around, there is only the tiny trouble of the choice, and you are superior to that. On Sun, Oct 17, 2010 at 8:42 AM, orphee wrote: > Envy is the common currency of poetry, and every poetry whore knows this. > Let others camp on their platitudes and denial of whoredom. > > I have said it before and shall say it again, every poet is a whore > who aint' working. So why why stand down from the truth. > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From millb at aol.com Sun Oct 17 04:51:49 2010 From: millb at aol.com (Millicent) Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2010 04:51:49 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fueled by Jealousy opps Envy! In-Reply-To: References: <8CD3B6EAFA1C3F1-2158-B41F@webmail-m080.sysops.aol.com><171499.96754.qm@web110515.mail.gq1.yahoo.com><1294553034-1287253949-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1975905001-@bda697.bisx.prod.on.blackberry><840501.69997.qm@web33307.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <8CD3BEFABD60E32-1AA8-1363A@webmail-m003.sysops.aol.com> Hi Anny, I must have missed something because I have no idea what this means! Was someone posting something inappropriate? Millicent -----Original Message----- From: Anny Ballardini To: NewPoetry List Sent: Sun, Oct 17, 2010 1:49 am Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Fueled by Jealousy opps Envy! Retiens ta langue, Orphee. in other words, this is not the list to let out your hatred, there are plenty all around, there is only the tiny trouble of the choice, and you are superior to that. On Sun, Oct 17, 2010 at 8:42 AM, orphee wrote: Envy is the common currency of poetry, and every poetry whore knows this. Let others camp on their platitudes and denial of whoredom. I have said it before and shall say it again, every poet is a whore who aint' working. So why why stand down from the truth. _______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Sun Oct 17 06:05:51 2010 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2010 12:05:51 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fueled by Jealousy opps Envy! In-Reply-To: <8CD3BEFABD60E32-1AA8-1363A@webmail-m003.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CD3B6EAFA1C3F1-2158-B41F@webmail-m080.sysops.aol.com> <171499.96754.qm@web110515.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <1294553034-1287253949-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1975905001-@bda697.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> <840501.69997.qm@web33307.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <8CD3BEFABD60E32-1AA8-1363A@webmail-m003.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: Hi Milli, just answering Orphee: On Sun, Oct 17, 2010 at 8:42 AM, orphee wrote: Envy is the common currency of poetry, and every poetry whore knows this. Let others camp on their platitudes and denial of whoredom. I have said it before and shall say it again, every poet is a whore who aint' working. So why why stand down from the truth. On Sun, Oct 17, 2010 at 10:51 AM, Millicent wrote: > Hi Anny, > > I must have missed something because I have no idea what this means! Was > someone posting something inappropriate? > > Millicent > -----Original Message----- > From: Anny Ballardini > To: NewPoetry List > Sent: Sun, Oct 17, 2010 1:49 am > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Fueled by Jealousy opps Envy! > > *Retiens ta langue, Orphee.* > > in other words, this is not the list to let out your hatred, there are > plenty all around, there is only the tiny trouble of the choice, and you are > superior to that. > > On Sun, Oct 17, 2010 at 8:42 AM, orphee wrote: > >> Envy is the common currency of poetry, and every poetry whore knows >> this. >> Let others camp on their platitudes and denial of whoredom. >> >> I have said it before and shall say it again, every poet is a whore >> who aint' working. So why why stand down from the truth. >> >> > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing listNew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.eduhttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From liz_bassett73 at hotmail.com Sun Oct 17 07:09:08 2010 From: liz_bassett73 at hotmail.com (Liz Bassett) Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2010 11:09:08 +0000 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fueled by Jealousy opps Envy! In-Reply-To: References: <8CD3B6EAFA1C3F1-2158-B41F@webmail-m080.sysops.aol.com>, <171499.96754.qm@web110515.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>, , <1294553034-1287253949-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1975905001-@bda697.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>, , <840501.69997.qm@web33307.mail.mud.yahoo.com>, , <8CD3BEFABD60E32-1AA8-1363A@webmail-m003.sysops.aol.com>, Message-ID: Can someone please let me know how to unsubscribe? Thanks Liz Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2010 12:05:51 +0200 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Fueled by Jealousy opps Envy! Hi Milli, just answering Orphee: On Sun, Oct 17, 2010 at 8:42 AM, orphee wrote: Envy is the common currency of poetry, and every poetry whore knows this. Let others camp on their platitudes and denial of whoredom. I have said it before and shall say it again, every poet is a whorewho aint' working. So why why stand down from the truth. On Sun, Oct 17, 2010 at 10:51 AM, Millicent wrote: Hi Anny, I must have missed something because I have no idea what this means! Was someone posting something inappropriate? Millicent -----Original Message----- From: Anny Ballardini To: NewPoetry List Sent: Sun, Oct 17, 2010 1:49 am Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Fueled by Jealousy opps Envy! Retiens ta langue, Orphee. in other words, this is not the list to let out your hatred, there are plenty all around, there is only the tiny trouble of the choice, and you are superior to that. On Sun, Oct 17, 2010 at 8:42 AM, orphee wrote: Envy is the common currency of poetry, and every poetry whore knows this. Let others camp on their platitudes and denial of whoredom. I have said it before and shall say it again, every poet is a whore who aint' working. So why why stand down from the truth. _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Sun Oct 17 08:18:02 2010 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2010 14:18:02 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Nico Vassilakis Message-ID: http://codepo.blogspot.com/2010/01/nico-vassilakis.html?ref=nf -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From katenexile at yahoo.com Sun Oct 17 09:21:28 2010 From: katenexile at yahoo.com (kate thorn) Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2010 06:21:28 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Fueled by Jealousy opps Envy!--ORPHEE In-Reply-To: References: <8CD3B6EAFA1C3F1-2158-B41F@webmail-m080.sysops.aol.com> <171499.96754.qm@web110515.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <1294553034-1287253949-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1975905001-@bda697.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> <840501.69997.qm@web33307.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <998701.77203.qm@web52604.mail.re2.yahoo.com> I have actually enjoyed your most irreverent posts orphee--I have seen slices of this in myself.? I love it when I have a poet/writer involved intimately with me. But it is always short lived.? How could it be otherwise, with each of us thinking we are better poets than the other.? The competition is healthy and spurs writing effeorts, but long term.? No dice.? Besides?I began my my affair with words a very long time ago, and no human iis?enticing enougfh to lure me away.? I am faithless, so I have my dalliances with others, but always return to words--I am more real on paper than in reality.? Quite frankly, I quit caring what people thought or said a long time ago, but I have enjoyed?your repartee.? Refreshing, to say the least.----kate http://katethorn.wordpress.com http://katesbeadzonline.wordpress.com? http://kate-thorn-designs.com http://beadzonline.etsy.com ---Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Fueled by Jealousy opps Envy! Retiens ta langue, Orphee. in other words, this is not the list to let out your hatred, there are plenty all around, there is only the tiny trouble of the choice, and you are superior to that. On Sun, Oct 17, 2010 at 8:42 AM, orphee wrote: Envy is the common currency of poetry, and every poetry whore knows this.? >Let others camp on their platitudes and denial of whoredom. > > >I have said it before and shall say it again, every poet is a whore >who aint' working. So why ?why stand down from the truth. > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From katenexile at yahoo.com Sun Oct 17 09:25:16 2010 From: katenexile at yahoo.com (kate thorn) Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2010 06:25:16 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Fueled by Jealousy opps Envy! In-Reply-To: <840501.69997.qm@web33307.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <8CD3B6EAFA1C3F1-2158-B41F@webmail-m080.sysops.aol.com> <171499.96754.qm@web110515.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <1294553034-1287253949-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1975905001-@bda697.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> <840501.69997.qm@web33307.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <583702.22048.qm@web52603.mail.re2.yahoo.com> and if poet is gainfully employed and writes in the inbtween moments of life?? I once wrote all over a paper bag at a restuarant, because I had a pen but no paper. I think writing should be a new disease. An addiction.? Incurrable.---kate ? http://katethorn.wordpress.com http://katesbeadzonline.wordpress.com? http://kate-thorn-designs.com http://beadzonline.etsy.com ________________________________ From: orphee To: NewPoetry List Sent: Sun, October 17, 2010 2:42:19 AM Subject: [New-Poetry] Fueled by Jealousy opps Envy! Envy is the common currency of poetry, and every poetry whore knows this.? Let others camp on their platitudes and denial of whoredom. I have said it before and shall say it again, every poet is a whore who aint' working. So why ?why stand down from the truth. ________________________________ From: Mark Weiss To: NewPoetry List Sent: Sat, October 16, 2010 4:48:23 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] "The Crisis of the Humanities Officially Arrives" It was offensive, but I wasn't personally offended. At 02:32 PM 10/16/2010, you wrote: Forgive me, Mark. I really don't think I'm the only one partly fueled by jealously over those "privileged" few who get to write poetry and not worry about a paycheck because their work is valued. I do apologize for offending you. The comment was not presumptuous, though. >? >Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry > >-----Original Message----- >From: Mark Weiss >Sender: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu >Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2010 14:22:22 >To: NewPoetry List >Reply-To: NewPoetry List >Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] "The Crisis of the Humanities Officially Arrives" > >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry New from Chax Press: Mark Weiss, As Landscape. $16.? Order from http://www.chax.org/poets/weiss.htm ? ? "What a beautiful set of circumstances! What a lovely concatenation of particulars. Here is the poet alive in every sense of the word, and through every one of his senses. Instead of missing a beat or a part, Weiss? fragments are like Chekhov?s short stories?the more that gets left out, the more they seem to contain? One can hear echoes from all the various ancestors...[but] the voice, at its center, its core, is pure Mark Weiss. His use of the fragment is both elegant and bafflingly clear, a pure musical threnody?[it] opens a window, not only into a mind, but a person, a personality, this human figure at the emotional center of the poem." ? M.G. Stephens, in Jacket. http://jacketmagazine.com/40/r-weiss-rb-stephens.shtml -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jschickl at hotmail.com Sun Oct 17 13:03:52 2010 From: jschickl at hotmail.com (Jared Schickling) Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2010 11:03:52 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] New-Poetry Digest, Vol 3, Issue 37 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Yes Mark, it's a nice story -- but it's also much more than that, the behavior of a people evidencing a fundamentally different approach to individuation and understanding what we call "knowledge." Yes, the human kid is a sponge. But the socially and culturally minded adult, whose responsibility that kid is, in this case of Lee's Dakota, advocates proper learnin of a sort that is worlds apart from our understanding. It says that a direct, personal engagement with life and things prior to their dictation and memorization is desirable -- not only that but it would apparently invite the undetained idiosyncratic in the course of ones, and therefore a society's and culture's, development. Among other things the approach advocates direct engagement with trial and error prior to more directed socialization. It places "individuation" at the "head" of society's "concerns." It's equivalent to holding off on school until age 6 -- antithetical is the more common American approach of pre-pre-pre-schooling the kids. This seems (seemed at the time) pertinent to some of the comments made here re proper learnin. I'm also reminded of Trobriand islanders who have no conjugations for past or future. A different approach to and understanding of ones reality. By the by... > Message: 1 > Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2010 17:51:51 -0400 > From: Mark Weiss > To: NewPoetry List > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] curriculum > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; Format="flowed" > > It's a nice story, but unless the parents never > spoke in the kids' presence and the kids were > segregated by age it's information they would have gathered anyway. > > At 05:20 PM 10/16/2010, you wrote: > > >I'm reminded of Dorothy Lee writing on Dakota > >parents -- before age five or whatever > >kids weren't given the names of things. Names > >were in those formative years to be > >discovered, post-engagement. A dad points to a tree -- and that's it -- > > > >"When I was a kid, I spent summers doing a lot of "recess," but > >reading, too, and being taught how to skin a squirrel by a friend's > >father, and building tree-huts (elementary carpentry), and finding out > >things. In a school environment, I'm sure that I and many like me would > >get bored with recesses and happily go where a teacher had volunteered > >to give a talk on dinosaurs, or do art, or participate in math > >contests. But we needn't be extreme..." > > > >_______________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From junction at earthlink.net Sun Oct 17 14:39:35 2010 From: junction at earthlink.net (Mark Weiss) Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2010 14:39:35 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] New-Poetry Digest, Vol 3, Issue 37 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Whorf redivivus. The Trobiand Islanders (and the Hopis--Whorf's example of fokks who live grammatically in the present) indicate past and future linguistically, just like the rest of us, tho by other means than full-fledged conjugations. It would be hard to plan a fishing trip or fatten a pig for a future feast or remember the exploits of this or that otherwise. And there's no indication that they conceptualize past and future differently. Just another Edenic fantasy. Cultural differences abound, but we're all stuck on the same dying hulk. At 01:03 PM 10/17/2010, you wrote: >Yes Mark, it's a nice story -- but it's also >much more than that, the behavior of a people >evidencing a fundamentally different approach to >individuation and understanding what we call >"knowledge." Yes, the human kid is a >sponge. But the socially and culturally minded >adult, whose responsibility that kid is, in this >case of Lee's Dakota, advocates proper learnin >of a sort that is worlds apart from our >understanding. It says that a direct, personal >engagement with life and things prior to their >dictation and memorization is desirable -- not >only that but it would apparently invite the >undetained idiosyncratic in the course of ones, >and therefore a society's and culture's, >development. Among other things the approach >advocates direct engagement with trial and error >prior to more directed socialization. It places >"individuation" at the "head" of society's >"concerns." It's equivalent to holding off on >school until age 6 -- antithetical is the more >common American approach of >pre-pre-pre-schooling the kids. This seems >(seemed at the time) pertinent to some of the >comments made here re proper learnin. > >I'm also reminded of Trobriand islanders who >have no conjugations for past or future. A >different approach to and understanding of ones reality. By the by... > > > > > > Message: 1 > > Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2010 17:51:51 -0400 > > From: Mark Weiss > > To: NewPoetry List > > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] curriculum > > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; Format="flowed" > > > > It's a nice story, but unless the parents never > > spoke in the kids' presence and the kids were > > segregated by age it's information they would have gathered anyway. > > > > At 05:20 PM 10/16/2010, you wrote: > > > > >I'm reminded of Dorothy Lee writing on Dakota > > >parents -- before age five or whatever > > >kids weren't given the names of things. Names > > >were in those formative years to be > > >discovered, post-engagement. A dad points to a tree -- and that's it -- > > > > > >"When I was a kid, I spent summers doing a lot of "recess," but > > >reading, too, and being taught how to skin a squirrel by a friend's > > >father, and building tree-huts (elementary carpentry), and finding out > > >things. In a school environment, I'm sure that I and many like me would > > >get bored with recesses and happily go where a teacher had volunteered > > >to give a talk on dinosaurs, or do art, or participate in math > > >contests. But we needn't be extreme..." > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry New from Chax Press: Mark Weiss, As Landscape. $16. Order from http://www.chax.org/poets/weiss.htm "What a beautiful set of circumstances! What a lovely concatenation of particulars. Here is the poet alive in every sense of the word, and through every one of his senses. Instead of missing a beat or a part, Weiss? fragments are like Chekhov?s short stories?the more that gets left out, the more they seem to contain One can hear echoes from all the various ancestors...[but] the voice, at its center, its core, is pure Mark Weiss. His use of the fragment is both elegant and bafflingly clear, a pure musical threnody [it] opens a window, not only into a mind, but a person, a personality, this human figure at the emotional center of the poem." M.G. Stephens, in Jacket. http://jacketmagazine.com/40/r-weiss-rb-stephens.shtml -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Mon Oct 18 10:33:04 2010 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2010 16:33:04 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] from the Writer's Almanac Message-ID: The way to write is well, and how is your own business." *A.J. Liebling * -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jschickl at hotmail.com Mon Oct 18 12:46:23 2010 From: jschickl at hotmail.com (Jared Schickling) Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2010 10:46:23 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] New-Poetry Digest, Vol 3, Issue 39 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: "Edenic fantasy?" I don't follow. "there's no indication that they conceptualize past and future differently." Perhaps not, but you forgot the "present." Tromba and the like -- witnessed the death of a man at the hands of it, invisible to my eyes. > > Message: 2 > Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2010 14:39:35 -0400 > From: Mark Weiss > To: NewPoetry List > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] New-Poetry Digest, Vol 3, Issue 37 > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; Format="flowed" > > Whorf redivivus. The Trobiand Islanders (and the > Hopis--Whorf's example of fokks who live > grammatically in the present) indicate past and > future linguistically, just like the rest of us, > tho by other means than full-fledged > conjugations. It would be hard to plan a fishing > trip or fatten a pig for a future feast or > remember the exploits of this or that otherwise. > And there's no indication that they conceptualize past and future differently. > > Just another Edenic fantasy. Cultural differences > abound, but we're all stuck on the same dying hulk. > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ccooley at overdomain.com Mon Oct 18 14:10:07 2010 From: ccooley at overdomain.com (Crisman Cooley) Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2010 11:10:07 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] "The Crisis of the Humanities Officially Arrives" Message-ID: Union Institute gives accredited college credit up to PhD level for real world experience if the learner writes it up in Learning Agreement(s) and has core and adjunct faculty approval. Your friend could probably get a PhD in 1 year. I almost surely would not have any college degree if I hadn't found this school. Self-directed learning I believe is the answer to many difficult questions in education. [see Malcolm Knowles book on SDL... may be out of print] Govt funding? ick. Corporate ed? ick squared. > On 10/16/2010 9:43 AM, Mark Weiss wrote: > > I do agree with you wholeheartedly about degree as job certification. It > seems never to end. A friend of mine who has been a concert pianist for > almost forty years has been looking at jobs teaching piano in music > departments, which is why I've become aware that doctorates in piano have > become an essential piece of paper. > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From junction at earthlink.net Mon Oct 18 14:22:04 2010 From: junction at earthlink.net (Mark Weiss) Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2010 14:22:04 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] New-Poetry Digest, Vol 3, Issue 39 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Of a more innocent mind-set, an eternal present. At 12:46 PM 10/18/2010, you wrote: >"Edenic fantasy?" I don't follow. > >"there's no indication that they conceptualize >past and future differently." Perhaps not, but >you forgot the "present." Tromba and the like >-- witnessed the death of a man at the hands of it, invisible to my eyes. > > > > > Message: 2 > > Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2010 14:39:35 -0400 > > From: Mark Weiss > > To: NewPoetry List > > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] New-Poetry Digest, Vol 3, Issue 37 > > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; Format="flowed" > > > > Whorf redivivus. The Trobiand Islanders (and the > > Hopis--Whorf's example of fokks who live > > grammatically in the present) indicate past and > > future linguistically, just like the rest of us, > > tho by other means than full-fledged > > conjugations. It would be hard to plan a fishing > > trip or fatten a pig for a future feast or > > remember the exploits of this or that otherwise. > > And there's no indication that they > conceptualize past and future differently. > > > > Just another Edenic fantasy. Cultural differences > > abound, but we're all stuck on the same dying hulk. > > >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry New from Chax Press: Mark Weiss, As Landscape. $16. Order from http://www.chax.org/poets/weiss.htm "What a beautiful set of circumstances! What a lovely concatenation of particulars. Here is the poet alive in every sense of the word, and through every one of his senses. Instead of missing a beat or a part, Weiss? fragments are like Chekhov?s short stories?the more that gets left out, the more they seem to contain One can hear echoes from all the various ancestors...[but] the voice, at its center, its core, is pure Mark Weiss. His use of the fragment is both elegant and bafflingly clear, a pure musical threnody [it] opens a window, not only into a mind, but a person, a personality, this human figure at the emotional center of the poem." M.G. Stephens, in Jacket. http://jacketmagazine.com/40/r-weiss-rb-stephens.shtml -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From junction at earthlink.net Mon Oct 18 14:26:03 2010 From: junction at earthlink.net (Mark Weiss) Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2010 14:26:03 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] "The Crisis of the Humanities Officially Arrives" In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Nice to know. My point was about the absurdity of the job requirement. When I was in college, at Columbia, no less, a lot of the older tenured faculty didn't have doctorates, merely long and distinguished careers. Those days are over. At 02:10 PM 10/18/2010, you wrote: >Union Institute gives accredited college credit >up to PhD level for real world experience if the >learner writes it up in Learning Agreement(s) >and has core and adjunct faculty approval. Your >friend could probably get a PhD in 1 year. I >almost surely would not have any college degree >if I hadn't found this school. Self-directed >learning I believe is the answer to many >difficult questions in education. [see Malcolm >Knowles book on SDL... may be out of print] Govt >funding? ick. Corporate ed? ick squared. > > > On 10/16/2010 9:43 AM, Mark Weiss wrote: > > I do agree with you wholeheartedly about > degree as job certification. It seems never to > end. A friend of mine who has been a concert > pianist for almost forty years has been looking > at jobs teaching piano in music departments, > which is why I've become aware that doctorates > in piano have become an essential piece of paper. > >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry New from Chax Press: Mark Weiss, As Landscape. $16. Order from http://www.chax.org/poets/weiss.htm "What a beautiful set of circumstances! What a lovely concatenation of particulars. Here is the poet alive in every sense of the word, and through every one of his senses. Instead of missing a beat or a part, Weiss? fragments are like Chekhov?s short stories?the more that gets left out, the more they seem to contain One can hear echoes from all the various ancestors...[but] the voice, at its center, its core, is pure Mark Weiss. His use of the fragment is both elegant and bafflingly clear, a pure musical threnody [it] opens a window, not only into a mind, but a person, a personality, this human figure at the emotional center of the poem." M.G. Stephens, in Jacket. http://jacketmagazine.com/40/r-weiss-rb-stephens.shtml -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd at ripon.edu Mon Oct 18 15:07:16 2010 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2010 14:07:16 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] "The Crisis of the Humanities Officially Arrives" In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <881A01E2-D6E0-4068-9BB7-2C91F0B36D59@ripon.edu> On Oct 18, 2010, at 1:26 PM, Mark Weiss wrote: > My point was about the absurdity of the job requirement. > > When I was in college, at Columbia, no less, a lot of the older tenured faculty didn't have doctorates, merely long and distinguished careers. Those days are over. =============================== I would agree, though with the provision that long and distinguished careers are no more predictors of good teaching ability than acquisition of a doctorate. Some of the worst teachers I ever had were highly distinguished scholars or writers. So an important question is whether teaching ability is what one wants in a faculty member. At many universities, it's demonstrably not high on the priority list. Those days are still with us. My opinion is definitely the minority view among faculty and administrators I've dealt with down through the years, at any number of schools. My own promotion through the ranks was considered a special exception to the requirement (I hold the M.F.A., not the PhD). I don't know how distinguished my career has been, but it did win me the exception to this particular rule. ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.me.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Mon Oct 18 15:33:03 2010 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2010 21:33:03 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] "The Crisis of the Humanities Officially Arrives" In-Reply-To: <881A01E2-D6E0-4068-9BB7-2C91F0B36D59@ripon.edu> References: <881A01E2-D6E0-4068-9BB7-2C91F0B36D59@ripon.edu> Message-ID: I'd say that a liberal system that can employ and fire according to the outcomes and to the teaching quality, is to be valued. In Italy if you are a state teacher, nobody can fire you. This is one of the major problems here, and why the best minds (in all disciplines) fly to the States. There must be a reason. The same Rita Levi Montalcini http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rita_Levi-Montalcini spent many years of research in the States. Her autobiography (if I am not wrong: *Elogio all'imperfezione* - Praise to imperfection) could be a good text book for teenagers these days. On Mon, Oct 18, 2010 at 9:07 PM, David Graham wrote: > > > On Oct 18, 2010, at 1:26 PM, Mark Weiss wrote: > > My point was about the absurdity of the job requirement. > > When I was in college, at Columbia, no less, a lot of the older tenured > faculty didn't have doctorates, merely long and distinguished careers. Those > days are over. > > =============================== > > I would agree, though with the provision that long and distinguished > careers are no more predictors of good teaching ability than acquisition of > a doctorate. Some of the worst teachers I ever had were highly distinguished > scholars or writers. So an important question is whether teaching ability > is what one wants in a faculty member. At many universities, it's > demonstrably not high on the priority list. Those days are still with us. > > My opinion is definitely the minority view among faculty and administrators > I've dealt with down through the years, at any number of schools. My own > promotion through the ranks was considered a special exception to the > requirement (I hold the M.F.A., not the PhD). I don't know how > distinguished my career has been, but it did win me the exception to this > particular rule. > > > > > ======================================== > David Graham > grahamd at ripon.edu > > Home Page: > http://web.me.com/drjazz > > Poetry Library: > http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html > ========================================== > > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Mon Oct 18 16:24:47 2010 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2010 16:24:47 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Dylan Thomas gets jazzed Message-ID: <8CD3D19A4514396-928-1@webmail-d024.sysops.aol.com> Dylan Thomas? poetry gets jazzed up for new album Oct 18 2010 by Karen Price, Western Mail A JAZZ musician has recorded an album inspired by Dylan Thomas. Jen Wilson celebrates 50 years in jazz with the live launch of her new CD, Twelve Poems: The Dylan Thomas Jazz Suite. The Jen Wilson Ensemble will perform tracks from the album at the Dylan Thomas Centre, Swansea on October 27 as part of the annual Dylan Thomas Festival. The live performancewas initially commissioned in 2003 by Dave Woolley at the Dylan Thomas Centre to commemorate the 50th anniversary of the death of Dylan Thomas. Read More http://www.walesonline.co.uk/showbiz-and-lifestyle/music-in-wales/2010/10/18/dylan-thomas-poetry-gets-jazzed-up-for-new-album-91466-27490603/#ixzz12k2an74Q -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From junction at earthlink.net Mon Oct 18 16:31:45 2010 From: junction at earthlink.net (Mark Weiss) Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2010 16:31:45 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] "The Crisis of the Humanities Officially Arrives" In-Reply-To: References: <881A01E2-D6E0-4068-9BB7-2C91F0B36D59@ripon.edu> Message-ID: I think it's a question of the criteria. At American universities with a committment to research teaching is a secondary coinsideration, as David says. The most important scholars have the lightest course loads. It's even possible to teach no courses at all and still command both high salaries (by academic standards}: at Rockefeller University, where no one teaches, and at Princeton Advanced Studies. Research outcomes, or at least the prestige accorded the work, count, teaching not so much. Aside from radically skewing the intellectual life of the nation, this also creates unrealistic expectations. If I remember correctly, each university department in Italy has one professor, usually a superstar in the field. Whoever succeeds him from among the underlings has to strive for the same level of achievement, but it's not expected that most will. Behind this is the understanding that great scholars are rare as hen's teeth (not unlike great poets). In the US each department has a slew of professors who in most places have to publish incessantly to get advancement, and predictably much of the work is drivel (to be kind--I've had to wade through a lot of it). To publish in a given field one has to have mastered all that drivel. And once published it's difficult for the work to keep from being drowned in it, no matter how good. The situation in the sciences is somewhat different--professors maintain laboratories staffed by those they train and paid for by outsiders--government or industry. If the product can't kill or sell or facilitate the creation of products that can the checks stop coming. When we think about a merit-based system, no matter what the criteria, in which there's no tenure, we should remember that we're in th4e US, where in many states, if there were no tenure, there'd be no biologists and nobody teaching anything politically incorrect. Best, Mark At 03:33 PM 10/18/2010, you wrote: >I'd say that a liberal system that can employ >and fire according to the outcomes and to the >teaching quality, is to be valued. In Italy if >you are a state teacher, nobody can fire you. >This is one of the major problems here, and why >the best minds (in all disciplines) fly to the >States. There must be a reason. The same Rita Levi Montalcini >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rita_Levi-Montalcini >spent many years of research in the States. Her >autobiography (if I am not wrong: Elogio >all'imperfezione - Praise to imperfection) could >be a good text book for teenagers these days. > > >On Mon, Oct 18, 2010 at 9:07 PM, David Graham ><grahamd at ripon.edu> wrote: > > >On Oct 18, 2010, at 1:26 PM, Mark Weiss wrote: > >> My point was about the absurdity of the job requirement. >> >>When I was in college, at Columbia, no less, a >>lot of the older tenured faculty didn't have >>doctorates, merely long and distinguished careers. Those days are over. >=============================== > >I would agree, though with the provision that >long and distinguished careers are no more >predictors of good teaching ability than >acquisition of a doctorate. Some of the worst >teachers I ever had were highly distinguished >scholars or writers. So an important question >is whether teaching ability is what one wants in >a faculty member. At many universities, it's >demonstrably not high on the priority list. Those days are still with us. > >My opinion is definitely the minority view among >faculty and administrators I've dealt with down >through the years, at any number of schools. My >own promotion through the ranks was considered a >special exception to the requirement (I hold the >M.F.A., not the PhD). I don't know how >distinguished my career has been, but it did win >me the exception to this particular rule. > > > > >======================================== >David Graham >grahamd at ripon.edu > >Home Page: >http://web.me.com/drjazz > >Poetry Library: >http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html >========================================== > > > > >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > >-- >Anny Ballardini >http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ >http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome >http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 >http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html >I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! >Friedrich Nietzsche > >? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique >vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? >Giovenale > >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry New from Chax Press: Mark Weiss, As Landscape. $16. Order from http://www.chax.org/poets/weiss.htm "What a beautiful set of circumstances! What a lovely concatenation of particulars. Here is the poet alive in every sense of the word, and through every one of his senses. Instead of missing a beat or a part, Weiss? fragments are like Chekhov?s short stories?the more that gets left out, the more they seem to contain One can hear echoes from all the various ancestors...[but] the voice, at its center, its core, is pure Mark Weiss. His use of the fragment is both elegant and bafflingly clear, a pure musical threnody [it] opens a window, not only into a mind, but a person, a personality, this human figure at the emotional center of the poem." M.G. Stephens, in Jacket. http://jacketmagazine.com/40/r-weiss-rb-stephens.shtml -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Mon Oct 18 20:22:07 2010 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2010 19:22:07 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] "The Crisis of the Humanities Officially Arrives" In-Reply-To: References: < 881A01E2-D6E0-4068-9BB7-2C91F0B36D59@ripon.edu> Message-ID: <4CBCE4AF.70306@nut-n-but.net> Sorry, Mark, but I gotta bother you with the news that I wholly agree with what you've said below. --Bob > I think it's a question of the criteria. At American universities with > a committment to research teaching is a secondary coinsideration, as > David says. The most important scholars have the lightest course > loads. It's even possible to teach no courses at all and still command > both high salaries (by academic standards}: at Rockefeller University, > where no one teaches, and at Princeton Advanced Studies. Research > outcomes, or at least the prestige accorded the work, count, teaching > not so much. > > Aside from radically skewing the intellectual life of the nation, this > also creates unrealistic expectations. If I remember correctly, each > university department in Italy has one professor, usually a superstar > in the field. Whoever succeeds him from among the underlings has to > strive for the same level of achievement, but it's not expected that > most will. Behind this is the understanding that great scholars are > rare as hen's teeth (not unlike great poets). In the US each > department has a slew of professors who in most places have to publish > incessantly to get advancement, and predictably much of the work is > drivel (to be kind--I've had to wade through a lot of it). To publish > in a given field one has to have mastered all that drivel. And once > published it's difficult for the work to keep from being drowned in > it, no matter how good. > > The situation in the sciences is somewhat different--professors > maintain laboratories staffed by those they train and paid for by > outsiders--government or industry. If the product can't kill or sell > or facilitate the creation of products that can the checks stop coming. > > When we think about a merit-based system, no matter what the criteria, > in which there's no tenure, we should remember that we're in th4e US, > where in many states, if there were no tenure, there'd be no > biologists and nobody teaching anything politically incorrect. > > Best, > > Mark > > At 03:33 PM 10/18/2010, you wrote: >> I'd say that a liberal system that can employ and fire according to >> the outcomes and to the teaching quality, is to be valued. In Italy >> if you are a state teacher, nobody can fire you. This is one of the >> major problems here, and why the best minds (in all disciplines) fly >> to the States. There must be a reason. The same Rita Levi Montalcini >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rita_Levi-Montalcini >> spent many years of research in the States. Her autobiography (if I >> am not wrong: /Elogio all'imperfezione/ - Praise to imperfection) >> could be a good text book for teenagers these days. >> >> >> On Mon, Oct 18, 2010 at 9:07 PM, David Graham > > wrote: >> >> >> >> On Oct 18, 2010, at 1:26 PM, Mark Weiss wrote: >> >>> My point was about the absurdity of the job requirement. >>> >>> When I was in college, at Columbia, no less, a lot of the >>> older tenured faculty didn't have doctorates, merely long >>> and distinguished careers. Those days are over. >> =============================== >> >> I would agree, though with the provision that long and >> distinguished careers are no more predictors of good teaching >> ability than acquisition of a doctorate. Some of the worst >> teachers I ever had were highly distinguished scholars or >> writers. So an important question is whether teaching ability is >> what one wants in a faculty member. At many universities, it's >> demonstrably not high on the priority list. Those days are still >> with us. >> >> My opinion is definitely the minority view among faculty and >> administrators I've dealt with down through the years, at any >> number of schools. My own promotion through the ranks was >> considered a special exception to the requirement (I hold the >> M.F.A., not the PhD). I don't know how distinguished my career >> has been, but it did win me the exception to this particular rule. >> >> >> >> >> ======================================== >> David Graham >> grahamd at ripon.edu >> >> Home Page: >> http://web.me.com/drjazz >> >> Poetry Library: >> http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html >> ========================================== >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> >> >> >> -- >> Anny Ballardini >> http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ >> http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome >> http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 >> http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html >> I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a >> dancing star! >> Friedrich Nietzsche >> >> ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique >> vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? >> Giovenale >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > New from Chax Press: Mark Weiss, /As Landscape. > /$16. Order from http://www.chax.org/poets/weiss.htm > > > "What a beautiful set of circumstances! What a lovely concatenation of > particulars. Here is the poet alive in every sense of the word, and > through every one of his senses. Instead of missing a beat or a part, > Weiss' fragments are like Chekhov's short stories?the more that gets > left out, the more they seem to contain... One can hear echoes from > all the various ancestors...[but] the voice, at its center, its core, > is pure Mark Weiss. His use of the fragment is both elegant and > bafflingly clear, a pure musical threnody...[it] opens a window, not > only into a mind, but a person, a personality, this human figure at > the emotional center of the poem." > > M.G. Stephens, in Jacket. > http://jacketmagazine.com/40/r-weiss-rb-stephens.shtml > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From junction at earthlink.net Mon Oct 18 21:34:44 2010 From: junction at earthlink.net (Mark Weiss) Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2010 21:34:44 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] "The Crisis of the Humanities Officially Arrives" In-Reply-To: <4CBCE4AF.70306@nut-n-but.net> References: < 881A01E2-D6E0-4068-9BB7-2C91F0B36D59@ripon.edu> <4CBCE4AF.70306@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: Remarkably, so do I. At 08:22 PM 10/18/2010, you wrote: >Sorry, Mark, but I gotta bother you with the >news that I wholly agree with what you've said below. > >--Bob >>I think it's a question of the criteria. At >>American universities with a committment to >>research teaching is a secondary >>coinsideration, as David says. The most >>important scholars have the lightest course >>loads. It's even possible to teach no courses >>at all and still command both high salaries (by >>academic standards}: at Rockefeller University, >>where no one teaches, and at Princeton >>Advanced Studies. Research outcomes, or at >>least the prestige accorded the work, count, teaching not so much. >> >>Aside from radically skewing the intellectual >>life of the nation, this also creates >>unrealistic expectations. If I remember >>correctly, each university department in Italy >>has one professor, usually a superstar in the >>field. Whoever succeeds him from among the >>underlings has to strive for the same level of >>achievement, but it's not expected that most >>will. Behind this is the understanding that >>great scholars are rare as hen's teeth (not >>unlike great poets). In the US each department >>has a slew of professors who in most places >>have to publish incessantly to get advancement, >>and predictably much of the work is drivel (to >>be kind--I've had to wade through a lot of it). >>To publish in a given field one has to have >>mastered all that drivel. And once published >>it's difficult for the work to keep from being >>drowned in it, no matter how good. >> >>The situation in the sciences is somewhat >>different--professors maintain laboratories >>staffed by those they train and paid for by >>outsiders--government or industry. If the >>product can't kill or sell or facilitate the >>creation of products that can the checks stop coming. >> >>When we think about a merit-based system, no >>matter what the criteria, in which there's no >>tenure, we should remember that we're in th4e >>US, where in many states, if there were no >>tenure, there'd be no biologists and nobody >>teaching anything politically incorrect. >> >>Best, >> >>Mark >> >>At 03:33 PM 10/18/2010, you wrote: >>>I'd say that a liberal system that can employ >>>and fire according to the outcomes and to the >>>teaching quality, is to be valued. In Italy if >>>you are a state teacher, nobody can fire you. >>>This is one of the major problems here, and >>>why the best minds (in all disciplines) fly to >>>the States. There must be a reason. The same Rita Levi Montalcini >>>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rita_Levi-Montalcini >>>spent many years of research in the States. >>>Her autobiography (if I am not wrong: Elogio >>>all'imperfezione - Praise to imperfection) >>>could be a good text book for teenagers these days. >>> >>> >>>On Mon, Oct 18, 2010 at 9:07 PM, David Graham >>><grahamd at ripon.edu> wrote: >>> >>>On Oct 18, 2010, at 1:26 PM, Mark Weiss wrote: >>> >>>> My point was about the absurdity of the job requirement. >>>>When I was in college, at Columbia, no less, >>>>a lot of the older tenured faculty didn't >>>>have doctorates, merely long and distinguished careers. Those days are over. >>>=============================== >>>I would agree, though with the provision that >>>long and distinguished careers are no more >>>predictors of good teaching ability than >>>acquisition of a doctorate. Some of the worst >>>teachers I ever had were highly distinguished >>>scholars or writers. So an important question >>>is whether teaching ability is what one wants >>>in a faculty member. At many universities, >>>it's demonstrably not high on the priority >>>list. Those days are still with us. >>> >>>My opinion is definitely the minority view >>>among faculty and administrators I've dealt >>>with down through the years, at any number of >>>schools. My own promotion through the ranks >>>was considered a special exception to the >>>requirement (I hold the M.F.A., not the >>>PhD). I don't know how distinguished my >>>career has been, but it did win me the exception to this particular rule. >>> >>> >>> >>>======================================== >>>David Graham >>>grahamd at ripon.edu >>>Home Page: >>>http://web.me.com/drjazz >>>Poetry Library: >>>http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html >>> >>>========================================== >>> >>> >>> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>New-Poetry mailing list >>>New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>>http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>-- >>>Anny Ballardini >>>http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ >>>http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome >>>http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 >>>http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html >>>I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one >>>to give birth to a dancing star! >>>Friedrich Nietzsche >>> >>>? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique >>>vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? >>>Giovenale >>> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>New-Poetry mailing list >>>New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>>http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> >> >>New from Chax Press: Mark Weiss, As Landscape. >>$16. Order from http://www.chax.org/poets/weiss.htm >> >> >>"What a beautiful set of circumstances! What a >>lovely concatenation of particulars. Here is >>the poet alive in every sense of the word, and >>through every one of his senses. Instead of >>missing a beat or a part, Weiss? fragments are >>like Chekhov?s short stories?the more that gets >>left out, the more they seem to contain One >>can hear echoes from all the various >>ancestors...[but] the voice, at its center, its >>core, is pure Mark Weiss. His use of the >>fragment is both elegant and bafflingly clear, >>a pure musical threnody [it] opens a window, >>not only into a mind, but a person, a >>personality, this human figure at the emotional center of the poem." >> >>M.G. Stephens, in Jacket. >>http://jacketmagazine.com/40/r-weiss-rb-stephens.shtml >> >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>New-Poetry mailing list >>New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry New from Chax Press: Mark Weiss, As Landscape. $16. Order from http://www.chax.org/poets/weiss.htm "What a beautiful set of circumstances! What a lovely concatenation of particulars. Here is the poet alive in every sense of the word, and through every one of his senses. Instead of missing a beat or a part, Weiss? fragments are like Chekhov?s short stories?the more that gets left out, the more they seem to contain One can hear echoes from all the various ancestors...[but] the voice, at its center, its core, is pure Mark Weiss. His use of the fragment is both elegant and bafflingly clear, a pure musical threnody [it] opens a window, not only into a mind, but a person, a personality, this human figure at the emotional center of the poem." M.G. Stephens, in Jacket. http://jacketmagazine.com/40/r-weiss-rb-stephens.shtml -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Mon Oct 18 23:35:54 2010 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2010 05:35:54 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] "The Crisis of the Humanities Officially Arrives" In-Reply-To: <4CBCE4AF.70306@nut-n-but.net> References: <4CBCE4AF.70306@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: My reference goes to state teachers, high school teachers, employed for life who literally 'read the newspaper' in class, undisturbed by the chaos. As per professors, you are right, privileges abound in the hands of a numbered few while other less important professors work for free or with a tiny scholarship, or for very little money. I am anyhow for a liberal competitive system, although those who judge are human beings and as you said, unluckily driven by interest, which makes things more and more difficult. On Tue, Oct 19, 2010 at 2:22 AM, Bob Grumman wrote: > Sorry, Mark, but I gotta bother you with the news that I wholly agree with > what you've said below. > > --Bob > > I think it's a question of the criteria. At American universities with a > committment to research teaching is a secondary coinsideration, as David > says. The most important scholars have the lightest course loads. It's even > possible to teach no courses at all and still command both high salaries (by > academic standards}: at Rockefeller University, where no one teaches, and > at Princeton Advanced Studies. Research outcomes, or at least the prestige > accorded the work, count, teaching not so much. > > Aside from radically skewing the intellectual life of the nation, this also > creates unrealistic expectations. If I remember correctly, each university > department in Italy has one professor, usually a superstar in the field. > Whoever succeeds him from among the underlings has to strive for the same > level of achievement, but it's not expected that most will. Behind this is > the understanding that great scholars are rare as hen's teeth (not unlike > great poets). In the US each department has a slew of professors who in most > places have to publish incessantly to get advancement, and predictably much > of the work is drivel (to be kind--I've had to wade through a lot of it). To > publish in a given field one has to have mastered all that drivel. And once > published it's difficult for the work to keep from being drowned in it, no > matter how good. > > The situation in the sciences is somewhat different--professors maintain > laboratories staffed by those they train and paid for by > outsiders--government or industry. If the product can't kill or sell or > facilitate the creation of products that can the checks stop coming. > > When we think about a merit-based system, no matter what the criteria, in > which there's no tenure, we should remember that we're in th4e US, where in > many states, if there were no tenure, there'd be no biologists and nobody > teaching anything politically incorrect. > > Best, > > Mark > > At 03:33 PM 10/18/2010, you wrote: > > I'd say that a liberal system that can employ and fire according to the > outcomes and to the teaching quality, is to be valued. In Italy if you are a > state teacher, nobody can fire you. This is one of the major problems here, > and why the best minds (in all disciplines) fly to the States. There must be > a reason. The same Rita Levi Montalcini > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rita_Levi-Montalcini > spent many years of research in the States. Her autobiography (if I am not > wrong: *Elogio all'imperfezione* - Praise to imperfection) could be a good > text book for teenagers these days. > > > On Mon, Oct 18, 2010 at 9:07 PM, David Graham wrote: > > > On Oct 18, 2010, at 1:26 PM, Mark Weiss wrote: > > My point was about the absurdity of the job requirement. > > When I was in college, at Columbia, no less, a lot of the older tenured > faculty didn't have doctorates, merely long and distinguished careers. Those > days are over. > > =============================== > > I would agree, though with the provision that long and distinguished > careers are no more predictors of good teaching ability than acquisition of > a doctorate. Some of the worst teachers I ever had were highly distinguished > scholars or writers. So an important question is whether teaching ability > is what one wants in a faculty member. At many universities, it's > demonstrably not high on the priority list. Those days are still with us. > > My opinion is definitely the minority view among faculty and > administrators I've dealt with down through the years, at any number of > schools. My own promotion through the ranks was considered a special > exception to the requirement (I hold the M.F.A., not the PhD). I don't know > how distinguished my career has been, but it did win me the exception to > this particular rule. > > > > > ======================================== > David Graham > grahamd at ripon.edu > > Home Page: > http://web.me.com/drjazz > > Poetry Library: > http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html > ========================================== > > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > -- > Anny Ballardini > http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ > http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome > http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 > http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html > I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing > star! > Friedrich Nietzsche > > ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique > vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? > Giovenale > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > New from Chax Press: Mark Weiss, *As Landscape. > *$16. Order from http://www.chax.org/poets/weiss.htm > > > "What a beautiful set of circumstances! What a lovely concatenation of > particulars. Here is the poet alive in every sense of the word, and through > every one of his senses. Instead of missing a beat or a part, Weiss? > fragments are like Chekhov?s short stories?the more that gets left out, the > more they seem to contain? One can hear echoes from all the various > ancestors...[but] the voice, at its center, its core, is pure Mark Weiss. > His use of the fragment is both elegant and bafflingly clear, a pure musical > threnody?[it] opens a window, not only into a mind, but a person, a > personality, this human figure at the emotional center of the poem." > > M.G. Stephens, in Jacket. > http://jacketmagazine.com/40/r-weiss-rb-stephens.shtml > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing listNew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.eduhttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jschickl at hotmail.com Mon Oct 18 23:35:28 2010 From: jschickl at hotmail.com (Jared Schickling) Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2010 21:35:28 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] innocence etc In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Mark, thank you for clarifying. I see what you mean. But, innocence seemingly having little to do with things, I think you either misunderstood or, more probably, I didn't adequately communicate my intentions, which were somewhere around the final sentence in the opening paragraph below from Dorothy Lee's "Lineal and Nonlineal Codifications of Reality" -- I know it's online somewhere: "The following study is concerned with the codification of reality, and more particularly, with the nonlineal apprehension of reality among the people of the Trobriand Islands, in contrast to our own lineal phrasing. Basic to my investigation is the assumption that a member of a given society not only codifies experienced reality through the use of the specific language and other patterned behavior characteristic of his culture, but that he actually grasps reality only as it is presented to him in this code. The assumption is not that reality itself is relative; rather, that it is differently punctuated and categorized, or that different aspects of it are noticed by, or presented to the participants of different cultures. If reality itself were not absolute, then true communication of course would be impossible. My own position is that there is an absolute reality, and that communication is possible. If, then, that which the different codes refer to is ultimately the same, a careful study and analysis of a different code and of the culture to which it belongs, should lead us to concepts which are ultimately comprehensible, when translated into our own code. It may even, eventually, lead us to aspects of reality from which our own code excludes us." > Message: 3 > Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2010 14:22:04 -0400 > From: Mark Weiss > To: NewPoetry List > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] New-Poetry Digest, Vol 3, Issue 39 > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; Format="flowed" > > Of a more innocent mind-set, an eternal present. > > At 12:46 PM 10/18/2010, you wrote: > >"Edenic fantasy?" I don't follow. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From junction at earthlink.net Tue Oct 19 01:01:41 2010 From: junction at earthlink.net (Mark Weiss) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2010 01:01:41 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] innocence etc In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I would take a lot of convincing, Jared. This is essentially the Whorf Thesis, which has pretty much disappeared from serious deiscussion under the weight of a great deal of research. To go back to that Edenic vision, all we have to do to learn these truths is to go native. Best, Mark At 11:35 PM 10/18/2010, you wrote: >Mark, thank you for clarifying. I see what you >mean. But, innocence seemingly having little to >do with things, I think you either misunderstood >or, more probably, I didn't adequately >communicate my intentions, which were somewhere >around the final sentence in the opening >paragraph below from Dorothy Lee's "Lineal and >Nonlineal Codifications of Reality" -- I know it's online somewhere: > >"The following study is concerned with the >codification of reality, and more particularly, >with the nonlineal apprehension of reality among >the people of the Trobriand Islands, in contrast >to our own lineal phrasing. Basic to my >investigation is the assumption that a member of >a given society not only codifies experienced >reality through the use of the specific language >and other patterned behavior characteristic of >his culture, but that he actually grasps reality >only as it is presented to him in this code. The >assumption is not that reality itself is >relative; rather, that it is differently >punctuated and categorized, or that different >aspects of it are noticed by, or presented to >the participants of different cultures. If >reality itself were not absolute, then true >communication of course would be impossible. My >own position is that there is an absolute >reality, and that communication is possible. If, >then, that which the different codes refer to is >ultimately the same, a careful study and >analysis of a different code and of the culture >to which it belongs, should lead us to concepts >which are ultimately comprehensible, when >translated into our own code. It may even, >eventually, lead us to aspects of reality from >which our own code excludes us." > > > Message: 3 > > Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2010 14:22:04 -0400 > > From: Mark Weiss > > To: NewPoetry List > > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] New-Poetry Digest, Vol 3, Issue 39 > > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; Format="flowed" > > > > Of a more innocent mind-set, an eternal present. > > > > At 12:46 PM 10/18/2010, you wrote: > > >"Edenic fantasy?" I don't follow. > > >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry New from Chax Press: Mark Weiss, As Landscape. $16. Order from http://www.chax.org/poets/weiss.htm "What a beautiful set of circumstances! What a lovely concatenation of particulars. Here is the poet alive in every sense of the word, and through every one of his senses. Instead of missing a beat or a part, Weiss? fragments are like Chekhov?s short stories?the more that gets left out, the more they seem to contain One can hear echoes from all the various ancestors...[but] the voice, at its center, its core, is pure Mark Weiss. His use of the fragment is both elegant and bafflingly clear, a pure musical threnody [it] opens a window, not only into a mind, but a person, a personality, this human figure at the emotional center of the poem." M.G. Stephens, in Jacket. http://jacketmagazine.com/40/r-weiss-rb-stephens.shtml -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From robin.hamilton3 at virginmedia.com Tue Oct 19 01:07:16 2010 From: robin.hamilton3 at virginmedia.com (Robin Hamilton) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2010 06:07:16 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] innocence etc In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <16DC74947E5147D090006FF4BAF50A24@OwnerPC> So the strong version of the Sapir-Whorf hypothesis, linked to Malinowski's 1915 study of the Trobriand Islanders? I'd have a bit more faith in this if there was some indication that something new was coming in *other than that. Leave aside 1915 is nearly a hundred years ago, Malinowski was an ethnologist rather than a linguist, and furthermore virtually every serious linguist today has severe doubts about the basis of Sapir-Whorf. That's leaving aside probably the majority of linguists who simply dismiss it out of hand with groans of despair. What Jared quotes below, and there may be more in the whole study, sounds like that, warmed-over misinformation simmered in a stew of blinkered preconceptions. (One could add to Mark's succinct point about the Edenic eternal present projected onto innocent islanders and their (alleged) lexicogrammatical system, that this reflects a particular concept rooted in the Judeo-Christian tradition crossed with a liberal dash of Platonic theory and mediated by Augustine's vision of the Deity as transcending time, all leading to stuff like there was no past or future or change of seasons before the Fall.) Whoopee doo, Milton would approve! Robin From: Jared Schickling Sent: Tuesday, October 19, 2010 4:35 AM To: New Poetry List Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] innocence etc Mark, thank you for clarifying. I see what you mean. But, innocence seemingly having little to do with things, I think you either misunderstood or, more probably, I didn't adequately communicate my intentions, which were somewhere around the final sentence in the opening paragraph below from Dorothy Lee's "Lineal and Nonlineal Codifications of Reality" -- I know it's online somewhere: "The following study is concerned with the codification of reality, and more particularly, with the nonlineal apprehension of reality among the people of the Trobriand Islands, in contrast to our own lineal phrasing. Basic to my investigation is the assumption that a member of a given society not only codifies experienced reality through the use of the specific language and other patterned behavior characteristic of his culture, but that he actually grasps reality only as it is presented to him in this code. The assumption is not that reality itself is relative; rather, that it is differently punctuated and categorized, or that different aspects of it are noticed by, or presented to the participants of different cultures. If reality itself were not absolute, then true communication of course would be impossible. My own position is that there is an absolute reality, and that communication is possible. If, then, that which the different codes refer to is ultimately the same, a careful study and analysis of a different code and of the culture to which it belongs, should lead us to concepts which are ultimately comprehensible, when translated into our own code. It may even, eventually, lead us to aspects of reality from which our own code excludes us." > Message: 3 > Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2010 14:22:04 -0400 > From: Mark Weiss > To: NewPoetry List > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] New-Poetry Digest, Vol 3, Issue 39 > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; Format="flowed" > > Of a more innocent mind-set, an eternal present. > > At 12:46 PM 10/18/2010, you wrote: > >"Edenic fantasy?" I don't follow. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From robin.hamilton3 at virginmedia.com Tue Oct 19 01:19:52 2010 From: robin.hamilton3 at virginmedia.com (Robin Hamilton) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2010 06:19:52 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] innocence etc In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hey -- I fired off my own response before I read this, Mark! We seem to be singing from the same hymn-sheet. Though I'm drawn to a modified version of Sapir-Whorf -- the strong version was shot to buggery since so much of the argument was based on observations which were simply wrong, and it got savaged accordingly once linguists actually looked in detail at the evidence, which was a bit like the case studies which Freud made up when he felt that clinical observation wasn't producing quite what he wanted. But I dunno -- maybe there's a danger of throwing the baby out with the bathwater. I kinda like Wittgenstein's "the limits of out language are the limits of our world." Taken with a pinch of irony. Robin From: Mark Weiss Sent: Tuesday, October 19, 2010 6:01 AM To: NewPoetry List Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] innocence etc I would take a lot of convincing, Jared. This is essentially the Whorf Thesis, which has pretty much disappeared from serious deiscussion under the weight of a great deal of research. To go back to that Edenic vision, all we have to do to learn these truths is to go native. Best, Mark At 11:35 PM 10/18/2010, you wrote: Mark, thank you for clarifying. I see what you mean. But, innocence seemingly having little to do with things, I think you either misunderstood or, more probably, I didn't adequately communicate my intentions, which were somewhere around the final sentence in the opening paragraph below from Dorothy Lee's "Lineal and Nonlineal Codifications of Reality" -- I know it's online somewhere: "The following study is concerned with the codification of reality, and more particularly, with the nonlineal apprehension of reality among the people of the Trobriand Islands, in contrast to our own lineal phrasing. Basic to my investigation is the assumption that a member of a given society not only codifies experienced reality through the use of the specific language and other patterned behavior characteristic of his culture, but that he actually grasps reality only as it is presented to him in this code. The assumption is not that reality itself is relative; rather, that it is differently punctuated and categorized, or that different aspects of it are noticed by, or presented to the participants of different cultures. If reality itself were not absolute, then true communication of course would be impossible. My own position is that there is an absolute reality, and that communication is possible. If, then, that which the different codes refer to is ultimately the same, a careful study and analysis of a different code and of the culture to which it belongs, should lead us to concepts which are ultimately comprehensible, when translated into our own code. It may even, eventually, lead us to aspects of reality from which our own code excludes us." > Message: 3 > Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2010 14:22:04 -0400 > From: Mark Weiss > To: NewPoetry List > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] New-Poetry Digest, Vol 3, Issue 39 > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; Format="flowed" > > Of a more innocent mind-set, an eternal present. > > At 12:46 PM 10/18/2010, you wrote: > >"Edenic fantasy?" I don't follow. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From junction at earthlink.net Tue Oct 19 01:31:51 2010 From: junction at earthlink.net (Mark Weiss) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2010 01:31:51 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] innocence etc In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: The problem is demonstrating what those linguistic limits are and how they limit our world. I read something recently about a much more modest school of sociolinguistic thought that posits (the examples used in the piece) that attitudes towards nouns are influenced by their gender. So, a German would find the moon a lot more masculine than a French person. And presumably a French manual laborer would describe his hands in affectively feminine terms while a German hod carrier would describe his in masculine terms. Taken with a big pinch of irony. I came upon Whorf and Sapir on the suggestion of poets, who tend to find the whole thing very flattering. A pity. It also flatters a post-colonial mentality, according to which the Chinese, the Indians, the Hopis, the Trobrianders, what have you, possess wisdoms lost to the rest of us. Which might make one wonder why they've muddled through no better than the rest of us. Best, Mark At 01:19 AM 10/19/2010, you wrote: >Hey -- I fired off my own response before I read >this, Mark! We seem to be singing from the same hymn-sheet. > >Though I'm drawn to a modified version of >Sapir-Whorf -- the strong version was shot to >buggery since so much of the argument was based >on observations which were simply wrong, and it >got savaged accordingly once linguists actually >looked in detail at the evidence, which was a >bit like the case studies which Freud made up >when he felt that clinical observation wasn't producing quite what he wanted. > >But I dunno -- maybe there's a danger of >throwing the baby out with the bathwater. I >kinda like Wittgenstein's "the limits of out >language are the limits of our world." Taken with a pinch of irony. > >Robin > >From: Mark Weiss >Sent: Tuesday, October 19, 2010 6:01 AM >To: NewPoetry List >Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] innocence etc > >I would take a lot of convincing, Jared. This is >essentially the Whorf Thesis, which has pretty >much disappeared from serious deiscussion under >the weight of a great deal of research. To go >back to that Edenic vision, all we have to do to >learn these truths is to go native. > >Best, > >Mark > >At 11:35 PM 10/18/2010, you wrote: >>Mark, thank you for clarifying. I see what you >>mean. But, innocence seemingly having little >>to do with things, I think you either >>misunderstood or, more probably, I didn't >>adequately communicate my intentions, which >>were somewhere around the final sentence in the >>opening paragraph below from Dorothy Lee's >>"Lineal and Nonlineal Codifications of Reality" >>-- I know it's online somewhere: >> >>"The following study is concerned with the >>codification of reality, and more particularly, >>with the nonlineal apprehension of reality >>among the people of the Trobriand Islands, in >>contrast to our own lineal phrasing. Basic to >>my investigation is the assumption that a >>member of a given society not only codifies >>experienced reality through the use of the >>specific language and other patterned behavior >>characteristic of his culture, but that he >>actually grasps reality only as it is presented >>to him in this code. The assumption is not that >>reality itself is relative; rather, that it is >>differently punctuated and categorized, or that >>different aspects of it are noticed by, or >>presented to the participants of different >>cultures. If reality itself were not absolute, >>then true communication of course would be >>impossible. My own position is that there is >>an absolute reality, and that communication is >>possible. If, then, that which the different >>codes refer to is ultimately the same, a >>careful study and analysis of a different code >>and of the culture to which it belongs, should >>lead us to concepts which are ultimately >>comprehensible, when translated into our own >>code. It may even, eventually, lead us to >>aspects of reality from which our own code excludes us." >> >> > Message: 3 >> > Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2010 14:22:04 -0400 >> > From: Mark Weiss >> > To: NewPoetry List >> > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] New-Poetry Digest, Vol 3, Issue 39 >> > Message-ID: >> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; Format="flowed" >> > >> > Of a more innocent mind-set, an eternal present. >> > >> > At 12:46 PM 10/18/2010, you wrote: >> > >"Edenic fantasy?" I don't follow. >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry New from Chax Press: Mark Weiss, As Landscape. $16. Order from http://www.chax.org/poets/weiss.htm "What a beautiful set of circumstances! What a lovely concatenation of particulars. Here is the poet alive in every sense of the word, and through every one of his senses. Instead of missing a beat or a part, Weiss? fragments are like Chekhov?s short stories?the more that gets left out, the more they seem to contain One can hear echoes from all the various ancestors...[but] the voice, at its center, its core, is pure Mark Weiss. His use of the fragment is both elegant and bafflingly clear, a pure musical threnody [it] opens a window, not only into a mind, but a person, a personality, this human figure at the emotional center of the poem." M.G. Stephens, in Jacket. http://jacketmagazine.com/40/r-weiss-rb-stephens.shtml -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Tue Oct 19 05:18:56 2010 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2010 11:18:56 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Rule of Law Index Message-ID: Rule of Law Index? [image: Follow ruleoflawindex on Twitter] [DOWNLOAD]After three years of intensive development, testing, and vetting?including interviewing 41,000 people and over 900 experts in 35 countries?the World Justice Project is ready to publicly release the first annual *WJP Rule of Law Index?*. The *Index* provides detailed information and original data regarding a variety of dimensions of the rule of law, which enables stakeholders to assess a nation?s adherence to the rule of law in practice, identify a nation?s strengths and weaknesses in comparison to other countries, and track changes over time. The *WJP Rule of Law Index? 2010* Report, the first of an annual series, was released on October 14, 2010 at the National Press Club in Washington DC. -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From amyhappens at yahoo.com Tue Oct 19 11:00:33 2010 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2010 08:00:33 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] OT -- VIDA: Women in Literary Arts -- Call for web help! Message-ID: <857600.50981.qm@web83308.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> VIDA is in need of a web developer and designer who: a) knows the ins and outs of HTML and Word Press and b) is reliable and available to do the work required to make our web site rock. This is your chance to get your foot in the door for what will eventually be a *paid position* If you are interested, please email to Cheryl at cstrayed at gmail.com. Thanks! Cheers, Amy http://vidaweb.org ******** Amy's Alias + http://amyking.org/ ******** -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jschickl at hotmail.com Tue Oct 19 11:41:45 2010 From: jschickl at hotmail.com (Jared Schickling) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2010 09:41:45 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] innocence etc Message-ID: a wave of deja vu but i've lost it -- "What Jared quotes below, and there may be more in the whole study, sounds like that, warmed-over misinformation simmered in a stew of blinkered preconceptions..." -- i mean, good grief -- does anyone not see the irony here? the potential ways a given brain's, "post-colonial" or otherwise, theoretical apparatus strives to reduce the prospect of a "reality" from which one just might be excluded -- often without looking first -- sounds rather colonized -- relativity may have disappeared from the linguistic map, but Dorothy Lee, perhaps as corrective, remains essential reading for an anthropology seeking insight not afforded by laboratory methods or results. "it flatters a post-colonial mentality, according to which the Chinese, the Indians, the Hopis, the Trobrianders, what have you, possess wisdoms lost to the rest of us" -- not lost but, upon looking or, as the case may be, listening, the observer could prove lucky enough to be reminded of something, or even better, discover something never considered in the first place, meaning, frankly, I consider the implications of the proposition disastrous. somehow i'm thinking of heisenberg's conclusion around this time last century that uncertainty's an actual feature of some universe, not merely a homocentric concept provoking the relative inadequacy of tools and measures. And of course it's not Lee we're talking about. and again i just think we're reading different pages (where actually read). who's saying much about "linguistic relativity" -- or even "truth" -- "the assumption is not that reality itself is relative; rather, that it is differently punctuated and categorized" -- like those future hunters somewhere imbibing gourds of male semen (how might a discussion with them re-inform this here discussion?) -- who's talking about going native or backward or innocence or purity? I find much more intriguing and useful the process of explorations begun with usable fictions? enabling obstacles? (so while I'm here, thank you for this discussion) On a more direct note, the idea that the "how" of what is said does not in many ways, and perhaps in the most important ways, determine the "what" of what is said sounds strange in a forum on poetics...though a post-structural de-constructionist enclosure be containing this... I'm tempted to find Murat Nemet-Nejat's Eda anthology's introduction on reversible subject-object positions, such malleable inversions of syntax through everyday Turkish-Sufi speach (with only the anthology to go on), and the unique psychology that is borne by that, as a case in point, but morning's slipping away... > > I would take a lot of convincing, Jared. This is > essentially the Whorf Thesis, which has pretty > much disappeared from serious deiscussion under > the weight of a great deal of research. To go > back to that Edenic vision, all we have to do to > learn these truths is to go native. > > Best, > > Mark > > > So the strong version of the Sapir-Whorf hypothesis, linked to Malinowski's 1915 study of the Trobriand Islanders? I'd have a bit more faith in this if there was some indication that something new was coming in *other than that. > > Leave aside 1915 is nearly a hundred years ago, Malinowski was an ethnologist rather than a linguist, and furthermore virtually every serious linguist today has severe doubts about the basis of Sapir-Whorf. That's leaving aside probably the majority of linguists who simply dismiss it out of hand with groans of despair. > > What Jared quotes below, and there may be more in the whole study, sounds like that, warmed-over misinformation simmered in a stew of blinkered preconceptions. (One could add to Mark's succinct point about the Edenic eternal present projected onto innocent islanders and their (alleged) lexicogrammatical system, that this reflects a particular concept rooted in the Judeo-Christian tradition crossed with a liberal dash of Platonic theory and mediated by Augustine's vision of the Deity as transcending time, all leading to stuff like there was no past or future or change of seasons before the Fall.) > > Whoopee doo, Milton would approve! > > Robin > > > > Hey -- I fired off my own response before I read this, Mark! We seem to be singing from the same hymn-sheet. > > Though I'm drawn to a modified version of Sapir-Whorf -- the strong version was shot to buggery since so much of the argument was based on observations which were simply wrong, and it got savaged accordingly once linguists actually looked in detail at the evidence, which was a bit like the case studies which Freud made up when he felt that clinical observation wasn't producing quite what he wanted. > > But I dunno -- maybe there's a danger of throwing the baby out with the bathwater. I kinda like Wittgenstein's "the limits of out language are the limits of our world." Taken with a pinch of irony. > > Robin > > > The problem is demonstrating what those > linguistic limits are and how they limit our world. > > I read something recently about a much more > modest school of sociolinguistic thought that > posits (the examples used in the piece) that > attitudes towards nouns are influenced by their > gender. So, a German would find the moon a lot > more masculine than a French person. And > presumably a French manual laborer would describe > his hands in affectively feminine terms while a > German hod carrier would describe his in > masculine terms. Taken with a big pinch of irony. > > I came upon Whorf and Sapir on the suggestion of > poets, who tend to find the whole thing very flattering. A pity. > > It also flatters a post-colonial mentality, > according to which the Chinese, the Indians, the > Hopis, the Trobrianders, what have you, possess > wisdoms lost to the rest of us. Which might make > one wonder why they've muddled through no better than the rest of us. > > Best, > > Mark > > At 01:19 AM 10/19/2010, you wrote: > >Hey -- I fired off my own response before I read > >this, Mark! We seem to be singing from the same hymn-sheet. > > > >Though I'm drawn to a modified version of > >Sapir-Whorf -- the strong version was shot to > >buggery since so much of the argument was based > >on observations which were simply wrong, and it > >got savaged accordingly once linguists actually > >looked in detail at the evidence, which was a > >bit like the case studies which Freud made up > >when he felt that clinical observation wasn't producing quite what he wanted. > > > >But I dunno -- maybe there's a danger of > >throwing the baby out with the bathwater. I > >kinda like Wittgenstein's "the limits of out > >language are the limits of our world." Taken with a pinch of irony. > > > >Robin > > > >From: Mark Weiss > >Sent: Tuesday, October 19, 2010 6:01 AM > >To: NewPoetry List > >Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] innocence etc > > > >I would take a lot of convincing, Jared. This is > >essentially the Whorf Thesis, which has pretty > >much disappeared from serious deiscussion under > >the weight of a great deal of research. To go > >back to that Edenic vision, all we have to do to > >learn these truths is to go native. > > > >Best, > > > >Mark > > > >>Mark, thank you for clarifying. I see what you > >>mean. But, innocence seemingly having little > >>to do with things, I think you either > >>misunderstood or, more probably, I didn't > >>adequately communicate my intentions, which > >>were somewhere around the final sentence in the > >>opening paragraph below from Dorothy Lee's > >>"Lineal and Nonlineal Codifications of Reality" > >>-- I know it's online somewhere: > >> > >>"The following study is concerned with the > >>codification of reality, and more particularly, > >>with the nonlineal apprehension of reality > >>among the people of the Trobriand Islands, in > >>contrast to our own lineal phrasing. Basic to > >>my investigation is the assumption that a > >>member of a given society not only codifies > >>experienced reality through the use of the > >>specific language and other patterned behavior > >>characteristic of his culture, but that he > >>actually grasps reality only as it is presented > >>to him in this code. The assumption is not that > >>reality itself is relative; rather, that it is > >>differently punctuated and categorized, or that > >>different aspects of it are noticed by, or > >>presented to the participants of different > >>cultures. If reality itself were not absolute, > >>then true communication of course would be > >>impossible. My own position is that there is > >>an absolute reality, and that communication is > >>possible. If, then, that which the different > >>codes refer to is ultimately the same, a > >>careful study and analysis of a different code > >>and of the culture to which it belongs, should > >>lead us to concepts which are ultimately > >>comprehensible, when translated into our own > >>code. It may even, eventually, lead us to > >>aspects of reality from which our own code excludes us." > >> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd at ripon.edu Tue Oct 19 12:03:17 2010 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2010 11:03:17 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Pinsky article: How can poetry that doesn't rhyme be so pleasing to the ear? Message-ID: <87E11CA1-DF62-4F8A-97D5-E777657904FF@ripon.edu> Keener Sounds How can poetry that doesn't rhyme be so pleasing to the ear? By Robert Pinsky Posted Tuesday, Oct. 19, 2010, at 6:58 AM ET "I only like poems that rhyme." Or, more drastically: "If it doesn't rhyme, it's not a poem." These declarations of allegiance to end-rhyme sound traditional or even daringly reactionary?fearlessly loyal to the past. But what past? Victorian, maybe? Going by the historical record, end-rhyme has been far from essential?at most, it's only one possibility in the art of combining like and unlike sounds. Rhyming at the ends of lines has not always been the historical norm. Far from it. The Odyssey and the Iliad and the Aeneid, the poems of Pindar, Anacreon, Sappho, Horace, and Catullus, and Martial?that is, all of the Classical works that inspired European poets?are metrical. But none use end rhyme, which played a minimal role in the poetry of ancient Greece and Rome. In keeping with that precedent, some of the most ambitious poetry in English, since before Shakespeare, is not in rhyme but in blank verse: unrhymed iambic pentameter. Full article, with readings of Frost & W. C. Williams: http://www.slate.com/id/2271417/ ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.me.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From amyhappens at yahoo.com Tue Oct 19 13:14:55 2010 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2010 10:14:55 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Poets for Living Waters reading with Jan Heller Levi, Marcella Durand, Nicole Cooley, Heidi Lynn Staples and others! Message-ID: <552326.71220.qm@web83304.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Join us on Friday in Manhattan for an evening of poetry and eco-poetics ? a great lineup and a good cause! POETS FOR LIVING WATERS Friday, October 22th, 6:30pm Join poets Nicole Cooley and Tonya Foster, poets and editors of the Poets for Living Waters initiative Amy King and Heidi Lynn Staples, and guest readers Jan Heller Levi, Marcella Durand, Julian T. Brolaski, Ana Bozicevic, Joanna Hoffman, and Brenda Iijima for an evening of poetry and eco-poetics in the wake of large-scale catastrophes in the Gulf and the surrounding regions. The online poetry forum and activist group Poets for Living Waters features daily poetic responses to the recent oil spill; for more information, visit www.poetsforlivingwaters.com. The Skylight Room (9100) The Graduate Center, CUNY 365 Fifth Ave (btwn 34th & 35th) FREE AND OPEN TO THE PUBLIC No registration. Please arrive early for a seat. 212-817-2005 http://www.centerforthehumanitiesgc.org/ ******** Amy's Alias + http://amyking.org/ ******** -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Tue Oct 19 22:09:14 2010 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2010 22:09:14 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] "The Crisis of the Humanities Officially Arrives" In-Reply-To: References: <881A01E2-D6E0-4068-9BB7-2C91F0B36D59@ripon.edu> Message-ID: <8CD3E12ED6673C2-744-4B15@webmail-m050.sysops.aol.com> Does one need the obscure puplit of the college/university tenured professorship to be politically incorrect in this country? Is that where the action is? One could be a comedian, a blogger, a politico, etc., and probably have more influence. Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: Mark Weiss To: NewPoetry List Sent: Mon, Oct 18, 2010 4:31 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] "The Crisis of the Humanities Officially Arrives" I think it's a question of the criteria. At American universities with a committment to research teaching is a secondary coinsideration, as David says. The most important scholars have the lightest course loads. It's even possible to teach no courses at all and still command both high salaries (by academic standards}: at Rockefeller University, where no one teaches, and at Princeton Advanced Studies. Research outcomes, or at least the prestige accorded the work, count, teaching not so much. Aside from radically skewing the intellectual life of the nation, this also creates unrealistic expectations. If I remember correctly, each university department in Italy has one professor, usually a superstar in the field. Whoever succeeds him from among the underlings has to strive for the same level of achievement, but it's not expected that most will. Behind this is the understanding that great scholars are rare as hen's teeth (not unlike great poets). In the US each department has a slew of professors who in most places have to publish incessantly to get advancement, and predictably much of the work is drivel (to be kind--I've had to wade through a lot of it). To publish in a given field one has to have mastered all that drivel. And once published it's difficult for the work to keep from being drowned in it, no matter how good. The situation in the sciences is somewhat different--professors maintain laboratories staffed by those they train and paid for by outsiders--government or industry. If the product can't kill or sell or facilitate the creation of products that can the checks stop coming. When we think about a merit-based system, no matter what the criteria, in which there's no tenure, we should remember that we're in th4e US, where in many states, if there were no tenure, there'd be no biologists and nobody teaching anything politically incorrect. Best, Mark -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Tue Oct 19 22:57:29 2010 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2010 22:57:29 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Henry Hart awarded Message-ID: <8CD3E19AB0C01C0-744-5242@webmail-m050.sysops.aol.com> http://www.wm.edu/news/stories/2010/hart-warming-wm-english-professor-wins-carole-weinstein-poetry-prize.php Hart-warming: W&M English professor wins Carole Weinstein Poetry Prize by Jim Ducibella | October 19, 2010 Good manners and great poetry. Henry Hart has an abundance of each. Hart, the Mildred and J.B. Hickman Professor of Humanities in the Department of English, was honored for a lifetime of poetic achievement and support on Saturday, Oct. 16, when he was awarded the Carole Weinstein Prize in Poetry during the Virginia Book Awards ceremony at the Library of Virginia in Richmond. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From junction at earthlink.net Tue Oct 19 23:39:44 2010 From: junction at earthlink.net (Mark Weiss) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2010 23:39:44 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] "The Crisis of the Humanities Officially Arrives" In-Reply-To: <8CD3E12ED6673C2-744-4B15@webmail-m050.sysops.aol.com> References: <881A01E2-D6E0-4068-9BB7-2C91F0B36D59@ripon.edu> <8CD3E12ED6673C2-744-4B15@webmail-m050.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: I guess I wasn't clear. Depending on where you are, politically incorrect can mean teaching evolution, or the history of race relations, or Huck Finn, or experimenting with cells. What I was suggesting is that if there were no tenure there'd be a lot less education in this country. Which is why, as a matter of fact, tenure was instituted in the first place--to make education immune to mobs, clerics and opportunistic politicians. At 10:09 PM 10/19/2010, you wrote: >Does one need the obscure puplit of the >college/university tenured professorship to be >politically incorrect in this country? Is that >where the action is? One could be a comedian, a >blogger, a politico, etc., and probably have more influence. >Finnegan >-----Original Message----- >From: Mark Weiss >To: NewPoetry List >Sent: Mon, Oct 18, 2010 4:31 pm >Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] "The Crisis of the Humanities Officially Arrives" > >I think it's a question of the criteria. At >American universities with a committment to >research teaching is a secondary coinsideration, >as David says. The most important scholars have >the lightest course loads. It's even possible to >teach no courses at all and still command both >high salaries (by academic standards}: at >Rockefeller University, where no one teaches, >and at Princeton Advanced Studies. Research >outcomes, or at least the prestige accorded the >work, count, teaching not so much. > >Aside from radically skewing the intellectual >life of the nation, this also creates >unrealistic expectations. If I remember >correctly, each university department in Italy >has one professor, usually a superstar in the >field. Whoever succeeds him from among the >underlings has to strive for the same level of >achievement, but it's not expected that most >will. Behind this is the understanding that >great scholars are rare as hen's teeth (not >unlike great poets). In the US each department >has a slew of professors who in most places have >to publish incessantly to get advancement, and >predictably much of the work is drivel (to be >kind--I've had to wade through a lot of it). To >publish in a given field one has to have >mastered all that drivel. And once published >it's difficult for the work to keep from being >drowned in it, no matter how good. > >The situation in the sciences is somewhat >different--professors maintain laboratories >staffed by those they train and paid for by >outsiders--government or industry. If the >product can't kill or sell or facilitate the >creation of products that can the checks stop coming. > >When we think about a merit-based system, no >matter what the criteria, in which there's no >tenure, we should remember that we're in th4e >US, where in many states, if there were no >tenure, there'd be no biologists and nobody >teaching anything politically incorrect. > >Best, > >Mark > >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry New from Chax Press: Mark Weiss, As Landscape. $16. Order from http://www.chax.org/poets/weiss.htm "What a beautiful set of circumstances! What a lovely concatenation of particulars. Here is the poet alive in every sense of the word, and through every one of his senses. Instead of missing a beat or a part, Weiss? fragments are like Chekhov?s short stories?the more that gets left out, the more they seem to contain One can hear echoes from all the various ancestors...[but] the voice, at its center, its core, is pure Mark Weiss. His use of the fragment is both elegant and bafflingly clear, a pure musical threnody [it] opens a window, not only into a mind, but a person, a personality, this human figure at the emotional center of the poem." M.G. Stephens, in Jacket. http://jacketmagazine.com/40/r-weiss-rb-stephens.shtml -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From r_loden at sbcglobal.net Wed Oct 20 12:09:08 2010 From: r_loden at sbcglobal.net (Rachel Loden) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2010 09:09:08 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Sala and Loden in NYC, Weds. 10/27 Message-ID: <0B843AE3E92C45ED9ACD37F134B67B90@GlassCastle> I'll be reading in New York City (my old stomping grounds) for the first time a week from today: Rachel Loden and Jerome Sala Wednesday, October 27, 8pm The Poetry Project at St. Marks Church 131 East 10th Street New York, NY 10003 http://poetryproject.org/program-calendar/jerome-sala-rachel-loden.html Jerome Sala is a poet and critic. He is the author of cult favorites such as Spaz Attack, I Am Not a Juvenile Delinquent and Look Slimmer Instantly. Forthcoming is a chapbook of goth-horror poems titled Prom Night, done in collaboration with artist Tamara Gonzales. His blog on poetry and pop culture is espresso bongo. Rachel Loden is the author of Dick of the Dead (Ahsahta Press), a finalist for both the 2010 PEN USA Literary Award in Poetry and the California Book Award. Loden's first book, Hotel Imperium (Georgia), won the Contemporary Poetry Series competition and was selected as one of the ten best poetry books of the year by the San Francisco Chronicle. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ccooley at overdomain.com Wed Oct 20 12:59:35 2010 From: ccooley at overdomain.com (Crisman Cooley) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2010 09:59:35 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Pinsky article: How can poetry that doesn't rhyme be so pleasing to the ear? Message-ID: Thanks for the Pinsky article David. I appreciate Pinsky's essays and been educated by them, such as _The Sounds of Poetry_, etc., as I have also been educated by your posts over the years. I hear the WCW tho still find the sounds hard if not harsh. They also seem to have had also the unintended effect of leading his followers astray (I don't think that's his responsibility). To my ears, Frost's "An Old Man's Winter Night" destroys all arguments against him as a poet. Not to start a new argument. > Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2010 11:03:17 -0500 > From: David Graham > Subject: [New-Poetry] Pinsky article: How can poetry that doesn't > rhyme be so pleasing to the ear? > > > > Keener Sounds > How can poetry that doesn't rhyme be so pleasing to the ear? > By Robert Pinsky > Posted Tuesday, Oct. 19, 2010, at 6:58 AM ET > "I only like poems that rhyme." Or, more drastically: "If it doesn't rhyme, > it's not a poem." These declarations of allegiance to end-rhyme sound > traditional or even daringly reactionary?fearlessly loyal to the past. But > what past? Victorian, maybe? Going by the historical record, end-rhyme has > been far from essential?at most, it's only one possibility in the art of > combining like and unlike sounds. Rhyming at the ends of lines has not > always been the historical norm. Far from it. > > The Odyssey and the Iliad and the Aeneid, the poems of Pindar, Anacreon, > Sappho, Horace, and Catullus, and Martial?that is, all of the Classical > works that inspired European poets?are metrical. But none use end rhyme, > which played a minimal role in the poetry of ancient Greece and Rome. In > keeping with that precedent, some of the most ambitious poetry in English, > since before Shakespeare, is not in rhyme but in blank verse: unrhymed > iambic pentameter. > > > Full article, with readings of Frost & W. C. Williams: > http://www.slate.com/id/2271417/ > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From orpheecd at yahoo.com Thu Oct 21 03:35:13 2010 From: orpheecd at yahoo.com (orphee) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2010 00:35:13 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Fueled by Jealousy opps Envy! In-Reply-To: References: <8CD3B6EAFA1C3F1-2158-B41F@webmail-m080.sysops.aol.com> <171499.96754.qm@web110515.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <1294553034-1287253949-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1975905001-@bda697.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> <840501.69997.qm@web33307.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <973344.24560.qm@web33306.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hatred? I state facts. THat envy Is the common currency is not hatred, but a simple and sad fact. Perhaps you can't deal with that, and if so, but don you dare censor me. ________________________________ From: Anny Ballardini To: NewPoetry List Sent: Sun, October 17, 2010 4:49:12 AM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Fueled by Jealousy opps Envy! Retiens ta langue, Orphee. in other words, this is not the list to let out your hatred, there are plenty all around, there is only the tiny trouble of the choice, and you are superior to that. On Sun, Oct 17, 2010 at 8:42 AM, orphee wrote: Envy is the common currency of poetry, and every poetry whore knows this. >Let others camp on their platitudes and denial of whoredom. > > >I have said it before and shall say it again, every poet is a whore >who aint' working. So why why stand down from the truth. > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From orpheecd at yahoo.com Thu Oct 21 03:36:41 2010 From: orpheecd at yahoo.com (orphee) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2010 00:36:41 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Fueled by Jealousy opps Envy! In-Reply-To: <8CD3BEFABD60E32-1AA8-1363A@webmail-m003.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CD3B6EAFA1C3F1-2158-B41F@webmail-m080.sysops.aol.com><171499.96754.qm@web110515.mail.gq1.yahoo.com><1294553034-1287253949-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1975905001-@bda697.bisx.prod.on.blackberry><840501.69997.qm@web33307.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <8CD3BEFABD60E32-1AA8-1363A@webmail-m003.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <450507.88026.qm@web33301.mail.mud.yahoo.com> No no one was doing that; I simply stated what I perceive as fact: that envy, jealousy, and anxiety as my old teachers Harold Bloom and C. Paglia taught are facts. Weak persons and sometime weak poets cannot face that. But that is life. Cheers. ________________________________ From: Millicent To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Sun, October 17, 2010 4:51:49 AM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Fueled by Jealousy opps Envy! Hi Anny, I must have missed something because I have no idea what this means! Was someone posting something inappropriate? Millicent -----Original Message----- From: Anny Ballardini To: NewPoetry List Sent: Sun, Oct 17, 2010 1:49 am Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Fueled by Jealousy opps Envy! Retiens ta langue, Orphee. in other words, this is not the list to let out your hatred, there are plenty all around, there is only the tiny trouble of the choice, and you are superior to that. On Sun, Oct 17, 2010 at 8:42 AM, orphee wrote: Envy is the common currency of poetry, and every poetry whore knows this. >Let others camp on their platitudes and denial of whoredom. > > >I have said it before and shall say it again, every poet is a whore >who aint' working. So why why stand down from the truth. > > _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From orpheecd at yahoo.com Thu Oct 21 03:40:09 2010 From: orpheecd at yahoo.com (orphee) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2010 00:40:09 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Fueled by Jealousy opps Envy! In-Reply-To: References: <8CD3B6EAFA1C3F1-2158-B41F@webmail-m080.sysops.aol.com> <171499.96754.qm@web110515.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <1294553034-1287253949-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1975905001-@bda697.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> <840501.69997.qm@web33307.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <8CD3BEFABD60E32-1AA8-1363A@webmail-m003.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <769021.3250.qm@web33303.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hardly answering, you were trying Madame to grandstand. My advice to you is read Ann Sexton a stronger and better poet than you could ever hope to be. But perhaps with a little humility you might learn to engage a stronger line in your own rather minor works. Cheers ________________________________ From: Anny Ballardini To: NewPoetry List Sent: Sun, October 17, 2010 6:05:51 AM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Fueled by Jealousy opps Envy! Hi Milli, just answering Orphee: On Sun, Oct 17, 2010 at 8:42 AM, orphee wrote: Envy is the common currency of poetry, and every poetry whore knows this. Let others camp on their platitudes and denial of whoredom. I have said it before and shall say it again, every poet is a whore who aint' working. So why why stand down from the truth. On Sun, Oct 17, 2010 at 10:51 AM, Millicent wrote: Hi Anny, > >I must have missed something because I have no idea what this means! Was >someone posting something inappropriate? > > >Millicent > >-----Original Message----- >From: Anny Ballardini >To: NewPoetry List > >Sent: Sun, Oct 17, 2010 1:49 am >Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Fueled by Jealousy opps Envy! > > >Retiens ta langue, Orphee. > >in other words, this is not the list to let out your hatred, there are plenty >all around, there is only the tiny trouble of the choice, and you are superior >to that. > > >On Sun, Oct 17, 2010 at 8:42 AM, orphee wrote: > >Envy is the common currency of poetry, and every poetry whore knows this. >>Let others camp on their platitudes and denial of whoredom. >> >> >>I have said it before and shall say it again, every poet is a whore >>who aint' working. So why why stand down from the truth. >> >> > >_______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From orpheecd at yahoo.com Thu Oct 21 03:41:10 2010 From: orpheecd at yahoo.com (orphee) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2010 00:41:10 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Nico Vassilakis In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <847020.4456.qm@web33303.mail.mud.yahoo.com> If you going to quote Nietzsche, learn to cuss more heartily! ________________________________ From: Anny Ballardini To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &, Views" Sent: Sun, October 17, 2010 8:18:02 AM Subject: [New-Poetry] Nico Vassilakis http://codepo.blogspot.com/2010/01/nico-vassilakis.html?ref=nf -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From orpheecd at yahoo.com Thu Oct 21 03:43:19 2010 From: orpheecd at yahoo.com (orphee) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2010 00:43:19 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] from the Writer's Almanac In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8580.45164.qm@web33302.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Minding one's own business is not the poet's job_ tha is the critic's . Which you seem to rudely exemplify. ________________________________ From: Anny Ballardini To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &, Views" Sent: Mon, October 18, 2010 10:33:04 AM Subject: [New-Poetry] from the Writer's Almanac The way to write is well, and how is your own business." A.J. Liebling -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From orpheecd at yahoo.com Thu Oct 21 03:48:04 2010 From: orpheecd at yahoo.com (orphee) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2010 00:48:04 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Fueled by Jealousy opps Envy! In-Reply-To: <583702.22048.qm@web52603.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <8CD3B6EAFA1C3F1-2158-B41F@webmail-m080.sysops.aol.com> <171499.96754.qm@web110515.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <1294553034-1287253949-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1975905001-@bda697.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> <840501.69997.qm@web33307.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <583702.22048.qm@web52603.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <306504.71925.qm@web33304.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Ah! At last someone I agree with. However, I'd modify what you are suggesting just ever so slightly. Writing is already an addiction, and a disease. It is also the cure, and the patient and doctor are one and the same person. I will gladly visit your pages. Cheers. ________________________________ From: kate thorn To: NewPoetry List Sent: Sun, October 17, 2010 9:25:16 AM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Fueled by Jealousy opps Envy! and if poet is gainfully employed and writes in the inbtween moments of life? I once wrote all over a paper bag at a restuarant, because I had a pen but no paper. I think writing should be a new disease. An addiction. Incurrable.---kate http://katethorn.wordpress.com http://katesbeadzonline.wordpress.com http://kate-thorn-designs.com http://beadzonline.etsy.com ________________________________ From: orphee To: NewPoetry List Sent: Sun, October 17, 2010 2:42:19 AM Subject: [New-Poetry] Fueled by Jealousy opps Envy! Envy is the common currency of poetry, and every poetry whore knows this. Let others camp on their platitudes and denial of whoredom. I have said it before and shall say it again, every poet is a whore who aint' working. So why why stand down from the truth. ________________________________ From: Mark Weiss To: NewPoetry List Sent: Sat, October 16, 2010 4:48:23 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] "The Crisis of the Humanities Officially Arrives" It was offensive, but I wasn't personally offended. At 02:32 PM 10/16/2010, you wrote: Forgive me, Mark. I really don't think I'm the only one partly fueled by jealously over those "privileged" few who get to write poetry and not worry about a paycheck because their work is valued. I do apologize for offending you. The comment was not presumptuous, though. > >Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry > >-----Original Message----- >From: Mark Weiss >Sender: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu >Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2010 14:22:22 >To: NewPoetry List >Reply-To: NewPoetry List >Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] "The Crisis of the Humanities Officially Arrives" > >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry New from Chax Press: Mark Weiss, As Landscape. $16. Order from http://www.chax.org/poets/weiss.htm "What a beautiful set of circumstances! What a lovely concatenation of particulars. Here is the poet alive in every sense of the word, and through every one of his senses. Instead of missing a beat or a part, Weiss? fragments are like Chekhov?s short stories?the more that gets left out, the more they seem to contain? One can hear echoes from all the various ancestors...[but] the voice, at its center, its core, is pure Mark Weiss. His use of the fragment is both elegant and bafflingly clear, a pure musical threnody?[it] opens a window, not only into a mind, but a person, a personality, this human figure at the emotional center of the poem." M.G. Stephens, in Jacket. http://jacketmagazine.com/40/r-weiss-rb-stephens.shtml -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From orpheecd at yahoo.com Thu Oct 21 04:05:54 2010 From: orpheecd at yahoo.com (orphee) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2010 01:05:54 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] from a tough son of abitch _(Hate Is Only One Of Many Responses) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <633518.68241.qm@web33302.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hate is only one of many responses true, hurt and hate go hand in hand but why be afraid of hate, it is only there think of filth, is it really awesome neither is hate don't be shy of unkindness, either it's cleansing and allows you to be direct like an arrow that feels something out and out meanness, too, lets love breathe you don't have to fight off getting in too deep you can always get out if you're not too scared an ounce of prevention's enough to poison the heart don't think of others until you have thought of yourself, are true all of these things, if you feel them will be graced by a certain reluctance and turn into gold if felt by me, will be smilingly deflected by your mysterious concern ___ of course, O'hara who had he lived would have gone on to knock out a few more grand slams -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From orpheecd at yahoo.com Thu Oct 21 04:10:19 2010 From: orpheecd at yahoo.com (orphee) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2010 01:10:19 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Fueled by Jealousy opps Envy!--ORPHEE In-Reply-To: <998701.77203.qm@web52604.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <8CD3B6EAFA1C3F1-2158-B41F@webmail-m080.sysops.aol.com> <171499.96754.qm@web110515.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <1294553034-1287253949-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1975905001-@bda697.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> <840501.69997.qm@web33307.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <998701.77203.qm@web52604.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <627811.65984.qm@web33305.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Ah ~ voila! a fierce spirit at last. I fear no one is better than the best. Whomsoever they be or become if I might spin yet another web . The agon is what Harold Bloom calls it. As you might already it is not personal but weak poets and pretenders think otherwise. Indeed_polemic and fighting or shadow boxing between the poems and poets has always been the tonic good and strong poets thrive on. As for not caring what anyone thinks it sounds as if you have reached those glorious heights those Hyperborean plains Nietzsche as dreamt of . I salute you if you have found them. __ I find this whole conversation figurative funny and not at all serious. Cheers especially to the lady who spoke to 'moi' Orphee en francais. I speak classical greek, and had my head torn off by a pack of envious hags. ________________________________ From: kate thorn To: NewPoetry List Sent: Sun, October 17, 2010 9:21:28 AM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Fueled by Jealousy opps Envy!--ORPHEEyd I have actually enjoyed your most irreverent posts orphee--I have seen slices of this in myself. I love it when I have a poet/writer involved intimately with me. But it is always short lived. How could it be otherwise, with each of us thinking we are better poets than the other. The competition is healthy and spurs writing effeorts, but long term. No dice. Besides I began my my affair with words a very lng time ago, and no human iis enticing enougfh to lure me away. I am faithless, so I have my dalliances with others, but always return to words--I am more real on paper than in reality. Quite frankly, I quit caring what people thought or said a long time ago, but I have enjoyed your repartee. Refreshing, to say the least.----kate http://katethorn.wordpress.com http://katesbeadzonline.wordpress.com http://kate-thorn-designs.com http://beadzonline.etsy.com ---Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Fueled by Jealousy opps Envy! Retiens ta langue, Orphee. in other words, this is not the list to let out your hatred, there are plenty all around, there is only the tiny trouble of the choice, and you are superior to that. On Sun, Oct 17, 2010 at 8:42 AM, orphee wrote: Envy is the common currency of poetry, and every poetry whore knows this. >Let others camp on their platitudes and denial of whoredom. > > >I have said it before and shall say it again, every poet is a whore >who aint' working. So why why stand down from the truth. > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From orpheecd at yahoo.com Thu Oct 21 04:12:28 2010 From: orpheecd at yahoo.com (orphee) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2010 01:12:28 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] "The Crisis of the Humanities Officially Arrives" In-Reply-To: <8CD3E12ED6673C2-744-4B15@webmail-m050.sysops.aol.com> References: <881A01E2-D6E0-4068-9BB7-2C91F0B36D59@ripon.edu> <8CD3E12ED6673C2-744-4B15@webmail-m050.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <56713.33097.qm@web33307.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Grand! One could be a comedian, a blogger, a politico, etc., and probably have more influence. Finnegan ----- -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From katenexile at yahoo.com Thu Oct 21 06:49:54 2010 From: katenexile at yahoo.com (kate thorn) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2010 03:49:54 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Fueled by Jealousy opps Envy! In-Reply-To: <306504.71925.qm@web33304.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <8CD3B6EAFA1C3F1-2158-B41F@webmail-m080.sysops.aol.com> <171499.96754.qm@web110515.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <1294553034-1287253949-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1975905001-@bda697.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> <840501.69997.qm@web33307.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <583702.22048.qm@web52603.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <306504.71925.qm@web33304.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <347835.24684.qm@web52604.mail.re2.yahoo.com> I like that--the cure and the doctor--it has the making of a poem. My pages are not good; I am trying to learn the blogging process,?but it is far from polished.? Kate ? http://katethorn.wordpress.com http://katesbeadzonline.wordpress.com? http://kate-thorn-designs.com http://beadzonline.etsy.com ________________________________ From: orphee To: NewPoetry List Sent: Thu, October 21, 2010 3:48:04 AM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Fueled by Jealousy opps Envy! Ah! At last someone I agree with. However, I'd modify ?what you are suggesting? just ever so slightly. Writing is already an addiction, and a disease. It is also the cure, and the patient and doctor are one and the same person. I will gladly visit your pages. Cheers. ________________________________ From: kate thorn To: NewPoetry List Sent: Sun, October 17, 2010 9:25:16 AM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Fueled by Jealousy opps Envy! and if poet is gainfully employed and writes in the inbtween moments of life?? I once wrote all over a paper bag at a restuarant, because I had a pen but no paper. I think writing should be a new disease. An addiction.? Incurrable.---kate ? http://katethorn.wordpress.com/ http://katesbeadzonline.wordpress.com? http://kate-thorn-designs.com/ http://beadzonline.etsy.com/ ________________________________ From: orphee To: NewPoetry List Sent: Sun, October 17, 2010 2:42:19 AM Subject: [New-Poetry] Fueled by Jealousy opps Envy! Envy is the common currency of poetry, and every poetry whore knows this.? Let others camp on their platitudes and denial of whoredom. I have said it before and shall say it again, every poet is a whore who aint' working. So why ?why stand down from the truth. ________________________________ From: Mark Weiss To: NewPoetry List Sent: Sat, October 16, 2010 4:48:23 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] "The Crisis of the Humanities Officially Arrives" It was offensive, but I wasn't personally offended. At 02:32 PM 10/16/2010, you wrote: Forgive me, Mark. I really don't think I'm the only one partly fueled by jealously over those "privileged" few who get to write poetry and not worry about a paycheck because their work is valued. I do apologize for offending you. The comment was not presumptuous, though. >? >Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry > >-----Original Message----- >From: Mark Weiss >Sender: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu >Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2010 14:22:22 >To: NewPoetry List >Reply-To: NewPoetry List >Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] "The Crisis of the Humanities Officially Arrives" > >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry New from Chax Press: Mark Weiss, As Landscape. $16.? Order from http://www.chax.org/poets/weiss.htm ? ? "What a beautiful set of circumstances! What a lovely concatenation of particulars. Here is the poet alive in every sense of the word, and through every one of his senses. Instead of missing a beat or a part, Weiss? fragments are like Chekhov?s short stories?the more that gets left out, the more they seem to contain? One can hear echoes from all the various ancestors...[but] the voice, at its center, its core, is pure Mark Weiss. His use of the fragment is both elegant and bafflingly clear, a pure musical threnody?[it] opens a window, not only into a mind, but a person, a personality, this human figure at the emotional center of the poem." ? M.G. Stephens, in Jacket. http://jacketmagazine.com/40/r-weiss-rb-stephens.shtml -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From katenexile at yahoo.com Thu Oct 21 06:45:41 2010 From: katenexile at yahoo.com (kate thorn) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2010 03:45:41 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Fueled by Jealousy opps Envy!--ORPHEE In-Reply-To: <627811.65984.qm@web33305.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <8CD3B6EAFA1C3F1-2158-B41F@webmail-m080.sysops.aol.com> <171499.96754.qm@web110515.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <1294553034-1287253949-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1975905001-@bda697.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> <840501.69997.qm@web33307.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <998701.77203.qm@web52604.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <627811.65984.qm@web33305.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <545434.54299.qm@web52605.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Ahh--but what constitutes "Best";? it is a subjective standard.? Is not the play with words what writers/poets do best.? I am envious of your gift for languages, which I was not blessed with, but I still have?my words, regardless of their place in life,?they are always mine.---kate ? http://katethorn.wordpress.com http://katesbeadzonline.wordpress.com? http://kate-thorn-designs.com http://beadzonline.etsy.com ________________________________ From: orphee To: NewPoetry List Sent: Thu, October 21, 2010 4:10:19 AM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Fueled by Jealousy opps Envy!--ORPHEE Ah ~ voila! a fierce spirit at last. I fear no one is better than the best. Whomsoever they be or become if I might spin yet another web . The agon is what Harold Bloom calls it. As you might?already?it is not personal but weak poets and pretenders think otherwise. Indeed_polemic and fighting or ?shadow boxing ?between the poems and poets has always been the tonic good and strong ?poets thrive on. As for not caring what anyone thinks it sounds as if you have reached those glorious heights those Hyperborean plains Nietzsche as dreamt of . ?I salute you if you have found them. ?__ I find this whole conversation figurative funny and not at all serious. Cheers ?especially to the lady who spoke to 'moi' Orphee en francais. I speak classical greek, and had my head torn off by a pack of envious hags. ________________________________ From: kate thorn To: NewPoetry List Sent: Sun, October 17, 2010 9:21:28 AM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Fueled by Jealousy opps Envy!--ORPHEEyd I have actually enjoyed your most irreverent posts orphee--I have seen slices of this in myself.? I love it when I have a poet/writer involved intimately with me. But it is always short lived.? How could it be otherwise, with each of us thinking we are better poets than the other.? The competition is healthy and spurs writing effeorts, but long term.? No dice.? Besides?I began my my affair with words a very lng time ago, and no human iis?enticing enougfh to lure me away.? I am faithless, so I have my dalliances with others, but always return to words--I am more real on paper than in reality.? Quite frankly, I quit caring what people thought or said a long time ago, but I have enjoyed?your repartee.? Refreshing, to say the least.----kate http://katethorn.wordpress.com/ http://katesbeadzonline.wordpress.com? http://kate-thorn-designs.com/ http://beadzonline.etsy.com/ ---Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Fueled by Jealousy opps Envy! Retiens ta langue, Orphee. in other words, this is not the list to let out your hatred, there are plenty all around, there is only the tiny trouble of the choice, and you are superior to that. On Sun, Oct 17, 2010 at 8:42 AM, orphee wrote: Envy is the common currency of poetry, and every poetry whore knows this.? >Let others camp on their platitudes and denial of whoredom. > > >I have said it before and shall say it again, every poet is a whore >who aint' working. So why ?why stand down from the truth. > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From amyhappens at yahoo.com Thu Oct 21 09:01:45 2010 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2010 06:01:45 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Fueled by Jealousy opps Envy! In-Reply-To: <769021.3250.qm@web33303.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <8CD3B6EAFA1C3F1-2158-B41F@webmail-m080.sysops.aol.com> <171499.96754.qm@web110515.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <1294553034-1287253949-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1975905001-@bda697.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> <840501.69997.qm@web33307.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <8CD3BEFABD60E32-1AA8-1363A@webmail-m003.sysops.aol.com> <769021.3250.qm@web33303.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <240568.35163.qm@web83302.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Must we endure such sloppy insults from a pseudonym? ******** Now That's WAC + http://wearechampion.blogspot.com/2010/08/amy-king.html Amy's Alias + http://amyking.org/ ******** ________________________________ From: orphee To: NewPoetry List Sent: Thu, October 21, 2010 3:40:09 AM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Fueled by Jealousy opps Envy! Hardly answering, you were trying Madame to grandstand. My advice to you is read Ann Sexton a stronger and better poet than you could ever hope to be. But perhaps with a little humility you might learn to engage a stronger line in your own rather minor works. Cheers ________________________________ From: Anny Ballardini To: NewPoetry List Sent: Sun, October 17, 2010 6:05:51 AM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Fueled by Jealousy opps Envy! Hi Milli, just answering Orphee: On Sun, Oct 17, 2010 at 8:42 AM, orphee wrote: Envy is the common currency of poetry, and every poetry whore knows this. Let others camp on their platitudes and denial of whoredom. I have said it before and shall say it again, every poet is a whore who aint' working. So why why stand down from the truth. On Sun, Oct 17, 2010 at 10:51 AM, Millicent wrote: Hi Anny, > >I must have missed something because I have no idea what this means! Was >someone posting something inappropriate? > > >Millicent > >-----Original Message----- >From: Anny Ballardini >To: NewPoetry List > >Sent: Sun, Oct 17, 2010 1:49 am >Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Fueled by Jealousy opps Envy! > > >Retiens ta langue, Orphee. > >in other words, this is not the list to let out your hatred, there are plenty >all around, there is only the tiny trouble of the choice, and you are superior >to that. > > >On Sun, Oct 17, 2010 at 8:42 AM, orphee wrote: > >Envy is the common currency of poetry, and every poetry whore knows this. >>Let others camp on their platitudes and denial of whoredom. >> >> >>I have said it before and shall say it again, every poet is a whore >>who aint' working. So why why stand down from the truth. >> >> > >_______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Thu Oct 21 10:22:35 2010 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2010 16:22:35 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Keith Richards, With Memories to Burn Message-ID: Life: http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/24/arts/music/24richards.html?_r=1&hp -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From barry.spacks at verizon.net Thu Oct 21 12:05:58 2010 From: barry.spacks at verizon.net (Barry Spacks) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2010 09:05:58 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Hanging Tough In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <11DDC0AE-7211-402C-B919-4D0998899177@verizon.net> On Oct 21, 2010, at 9:00 AM, Amy King wrote: > Must we endure such sloppy insults from a pseudonym? > so easy to force 2nd-hand Blooms B ********* -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Rsgwynn1 at cs.com Thu Oct 21 17:32:39 2010 From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com (Rsgwynn1 at cs.com) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2010 17:32:39 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Fueled by Jealousy opps Envy!--ORPHEE Message-ID: <4a1a2.1393715a.39f20b77@cs.com> In a message dated 10/21/2010 3:10:23 AM Central Daylight Time, orpheecd at yahoo.com writes: > > > Ah ~ voila! a fierce spirit at last. I fear no one is better than the > best. Whomsoever they be or become if I might spin yet another web . > The agon is what Harold Bloom calls it. As you might already it is not > personal but weak poets and pretenders think otherwise. > Indeed_polemic and fighting or shadow boxing between the poems and > poets has always been the tonic good and strong poets thrive on. > > > As for not caring what anyone thinks it sounds as if you have reached > those glorious heights those Hyperborean plains Nietzsche as dreamt of . I > salute you if you have found them. > > > __ I find this whole conversation figurative funny and not at all > serious. > > > Cheers > especially to the lady who spoke to 'moi' Orphee en francais. I speak > classical greek, and had my head torn off by a pack of envious hags. > > > > > I might find it funnier if I thought we were laughing with you instead of at you. You may know classical "greek," but your grasp of English grammar, spelling, and punctuation leaves a lot to be desired. Sam -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From orpheecd at yahoo.com Thu Oct 21 19:08:47 2010 From: orpheecd at yahoo.com (orphee) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2010 16:08:47 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Fueled by Jealousy opps Envy! In-Reply-To: <240568.35163.qm@web83302.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: <8CD3B6EAFA1C3F1-2158-B41F@webmail-m080.sysops.aol.com> <171499.96754.qm@web110515.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <1294553034-1287253949-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1975905001-@bda697.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> <840501.69997.qm@web33307.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <8CD3BEFABD60E32-1AA8-1363A@webmail-m003.sysops.aol.com> <769021.3250.qm@web33303.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <240568.35163.qm@web83302.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <772930.21865.qm@web33304.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Madame King _ since you speak in the editorial we, you invite yourself to be seen as a rep. I wonder what Walt would say? or Anne, or the other fine tenderers of American poetry? Would you prefer it that I insulted you, as you call, more precisely? Let me explain Madame _ to my ears, all your names are pseudo __ as all poets names are conceits. Yet some pretences are better than others.I actually do not who you nor do I know your work, so why are entering a battle than isn't yours? And besides whoever you are, pseudos are the most respected of poetic masks. If you don't think so that's fine and dandy, but style is is all in a name and one that makes it own way. And not one based on polite preening. Another thing, if the poet's persona is itself a conceit then what matter your personal name. Nay it matters not at all. The personae of E. Pound is not the person Ezra Pound etcetera. best wishes Amy King whomsoever you pretend to be ~. ________________________________ From: amy king To: NewPoetry List Sent: Thu, October 21, 2010 9:01:45 AM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Fueled by Jealousy opps Envy! Must we endure such sloppy insults from a pseudonym? ******** Now That's WAC + http://wearechampion.blogspot.com/2010/08/amy-king.html Amy's Alias + http://amyking.org/ ******** ________________________________ From: orphee To: NewPoetry List Sent: Thu, October 21, 2010 3:40:09 AM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Fueled by Jealousy opps Envy! Hardly answering, you were trying Madame to grandstand. My advice to you is read Ann Sexton a stronger and better poet than you could ever hope to be. But perhaps with a little humility you might learn to engage a stronger line in your own rather minor works. Cheers ________________________________ From: Anny Ballardini To: NewPoetry List Sent: Sun, October 17, 2010 6:05:51 AM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Fueled by Jealousy opps Envy! Hi Milli, just answering Orphee: On Sun, Oct 17, 2010 at 8:42 AM, orphee wrote: Envy is the common currency of poetry, and every poetry whore knows this. Let others camp on their platitudes and denial of whoredom. I have said it before and shall say it again, every poet is a whore who aint' working. So why why stand down from the truth. On Sun, Oct 17, 2010 at 10:51 AM, Millicent wrote: Hi Anny, > >I must have missed something because I have no idea what this means! Was >someone posting something inappropriate? > > >Millicent > >-----Original Message----- >From: Anny Ballardini >To: NewPoetry List > >Sent: Sun, Oct 17, 2010 1:49 am >Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Fueled by Jealousy opps Envy! > > >Retiens ta langue, Orphee. > >in other words, this is not the list to let out your hatred, there are plenty >all around, there is only the tiny trouble of the choice, and you are superior >to that. > > >On Sun, Oct 17, 2010 at 8:42 AM, orphee wrote: > >Envy is the common currency of poetry, and every poetry whore knows this. >>Let others camp on their platitudes and denial of whoredom. >> >> >>I have said it before and shall say it again, every poet is a whore >>who aint' working. So why why stand down from the truth. >> >> > >_______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From orpheecd at yahoo.com Thu Oct 21 19:10:07 2010 From: orpheecd at yahoo.com (orphee) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2010 16:10:07 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Fueled by Jealousy opps Envy!--ORPHEE In-Reply-To: <4a1a2.1393715a.39f20b77@cs.com> References: <4a1a2.1393715a.39f20b77@cs.com> Message-ID: <821975.98458.qm@web33306.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Ah, but my first language is not English and I write fast as I am working, in Paris, the shitbox of strikes as a busboy. Alors? ________________________________ From: "Rsgwynn1 at cs.com" To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Thu, October 21, 2010 5:32:39 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Fueled by Jealousy opps Envy!--ORPHEE In a message dated 10/21/2010 3:10:23 AM Central Daylight Time, orpheecd at yahoo.com writes: > >Ah ~ voila! a fierce spirit at last. I fear no one is better than the best. >Whomsoever they be or become if I might spin yet another web . >The agon is what Harold Bloom calls it. As you might already it is not personal >but weak poets and pretenders think otherwise. >Indeed_polemic and fighting or shadow boxing between the poems and poets has >always been the tonic good and strong poets thrive on. > > >As for not caring what anyone thinks it sounds as if you have reached those >glorious heights those Hyperborean plains Nietzsche as dreamt of . I salute you >if you have found them. > > >__ I find this whole conversation figurative funny and not at all serious. > > >Cheers > especially to the lady who spoke to 'moi' Orphee en francais. I speak >classical greek, and had my head torn off by a pack of envious hags. > > > > > I might find it funnier if I thought we were laughing with you instead of at you. You may know classical "greek," but your grasp of English grammar, spelling, and punctuation leaves a lot to be desired. Sam -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From robin.hamilton3 at virginmedia.com Thu Oct 21 19:17:54 2010 From: robin.hamilton3 at virginmedia.com (Robin Hamilton) Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2010 00:17:54 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fueled by Jealousy opps Envy! In-Reply-To: <772930.21865.qm@web33304.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <8CD3B6EAFA1C3F1-2158-B41F@webmail-m080.sysops.aol.com><171499.96754.qm@web110515.mail.gq1.yahoo.com><1294553034-1287253949-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1975905001-@bda697.bisx.prod.on.blackberry><840501.69997.qm@web33307.mail.mud.yahoo.com><8CD3BEFABD60E32-1AA8-1363A@webmail-m003.sysops.aol.com><769021.3250.qm@web33303.mail.mud.yahoo.com><240568.35163.qm@web83302.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <772930.21865.qm@web33304.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <7D8FE8252A274CC0A90A00CBDE06D70A@OwnerPC> From: orphee Sent: Friday, October 22, 2010 12:08 AM To: NewPoetry List Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Fueled by Jealousy opps Envy! Madame King _ since you speak in the editorial we, you invite yourself to be seen as a rep. I wonder what Walt would say? or Anne, or the other fine tenderers of American poetry? They would probably say, "Bugger off, sunny jim!" Or, more succinctly in the word of a character in a play by a somewhat more eminent Parisian: "Merde!" Robin -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From htthinc at gmail.com Mon Oct 18 14:29:08 2010 From: htthinc at gmail.com (Paul Howell) Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2010 14:29:08 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] "The Crisis of the Humanities Officially Arrives" In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: You wouldn't want someone better than you, but without the degree, to get the job, when you'd paid hundreds of thousands for the degree. Where would education be then? It's a dilemma in business school, where some degreed professors never earned anything but teacher's salaries, and paying students insist on getting the word straight from the horse's mouth. Bringing Wallace Stevens in, either to talk writing or business, would have upset the equilibrium. I wonder if it ever happened. Now I hear someone's not funding language teaching, and in the ensuing discussion someone says language teaching is teaching people to read-write-speak a language, but isn't reading-writing-speaking a language a prerequisite to language teaching, not a result of it? Any two-year-old can speak Italian, French, German, Chinese... On Mon, Oct 18, 2010 at 2:10 PM, Crisman Cooley wrote: > Union Institute gives accredited college credit up to PhD level for real > world experience if the learner writes it up in Learning Agreement(s) and > has core and adjunct faculty approval. Your friend could probably get a PhD > in 1 year. I almost surely would not have any college degree if I hadn't > found this school. Self-directed learning I believe is the answer to many > difficult questions in education. [see Malcolm Knowles book on SDL... may be > out of print] Govt funding? ick. Corporate ed? ick squared. > > > >> On 10/16/2010 9:43 AM, Mark Weiss wrote: >> > I do agree with you wholeheartedly about degree as job certification. It >> seems never to end. A friend of mine who has been a concert pianist for >> almost forty years has been looking at jobs teaching piano in music >> departments, which is why I've become aware that doctorates in piano have >> become an essential piece of paper. >> > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From amyhappens at yahoo.com Thu Oct 21 18:37:26 2010 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2010 15:37:26 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] TOMORROW: Poets for Living Waters reading with Jan Heller Levi, Marcella Durand, Nicole Cooley, Heidi Lynn Staples and others! Message-ID: <112244.41703.qm@web83307.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Join us on tomorrow for an evening of poetry and eco-poetics ? a great lineup and a good cause! ? ? POETS FOR LIVING WATERS ? ? Join poets Nicole Cooley and Tonya Foster, poets and editors of the Poets for Living Waters initiative Amy King and Heidi Lynn Staples, and guest readers Jan Heller Levi, Marcella Durand, Julian T. Brolaski, Ana Bozicevic, Joanna Hoffman, and Brenda Iijima for an evening of poetry and eco-poetics in the wake of large-scale catastrophes in the Gulf and the surrounding regions. The online poetry forum and activist group Poets for Living Waters features daily poetic responses to the recent oil spill; for more information, visit www.poetsforlivingwaters.com. Friday, October 22th, 6:30pm ? The Skylight Room (9100) The Graduate Center, CUNY 365 Fifth Ave (btwn 34th & 35th) FREE AND OPEN TO THE PUBLIC No registration. Please arrive early for a seat. 212-817-2005 ? www.centerforthehumanitiesgc.org ? ? ??? ******** VIDA: ?Women in Literary Arts + Interviews Amy's Alias + http://amyking.org/? ******** -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image002.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 113688 bytes Desc: not available URL: From amyhappens at yahoo.com Thu Oct 21 18:32:58 2010 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2010 15:32:58 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] TOMORROW: Poets for Living Waters reading with Jan Heller Levi, Marcella Durand, Nicole Cooley, Heidi Lynn Staples and others! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <430896.47203.qm@web83305.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Join us on tomorrow for an evening of poetry and eco-poetics ? a great lineup and a good cause! ? ? POETS FOR LIVING WATERS ? ? Join poets Nicole Cooley and Tonya Foster, poets and editors of the Poets for Living Waters initiative Amy King and Heidi Lynn Staples, and guest readers Jan Heller Levi, Marcella Durand, Julian T. Brolaski, Ana Bozicevic, Joanna Hoffman, and Brenda Iijima for an evening of poetry and eco-poetics in the wake of large-scale catastrophes in the Gulf and the surrounding regions. The online poetry forum and activist group Poets for Living Waters features daily poetic responses to the recent oil spill; for more information, visit www.poetsforlivingwaters.com. Friday, October 22th, 6:30pm ? The Skylight Room (9100) The Graduate Center, CUNY 365 Fifth Ave (btwn 34th & 35th) FREE AND OPEN TO THE PUBLIC No registration. Please arrive early for a seat. 212-817-2005 ? www.centerforthehumanitiesgc.org ? ? ? -- ********* VIDA: ?Women in Literary Arts + Interviews Amy's Alias + http://amyking.org/? ******** -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image002.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 113688 bytes Desc: not available URL: From alexdickow9 at yahoo.com Thu Oct 21 19:41:48 2010 From: alexdickow9 at yahoo.com (Alexander Dickow) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2010 16:41:48 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Fueled by Jealousy opps Envy! In-Reply-To: <7D8FE8252A274CC0A90A00CBDE06D70A@OwnerPC> References: <8CD3B6EAFA1C3F1-2158-B41F@webmail-m080.sysops.aol.com><171499.96754.qm@web110515.mail.gq1.yahoo.com><1294553034-1287253949-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1975905001-@bda697.bisx.prod.on.blackberry><840501.69997.qm@web33307.mail.mud.yahoo.com><8CD3BEFABD60E32-1AA8-1363A@webmail-m003.sysops.aol.com><769021.3250.qm@web33303.mail.mud.yahoo.com><240568.35163.qm@web83302.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <772930.21865.qm@web33304.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <7D8FE8252A274CC0A90A00CBDE06D70A@OwnerPC> Message-ID: <963210.34865.qm@web35502.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Robin, By my green candle, I say to you, hear, hear.?May we?rip the ear'ns?off this orphee person. Alex? ? www.alexdickow.net/blog/ les mots! ah quel d?sert ? la fin merveilleux. -- Henri Droguet ________________________________ From: Robin Hamilton To: NewPoetry List Sent: Fri, October 22, 2010 1:17:54 AM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Fueled by Jealousy opps Envy! ? From: orphee Sent: Friday, October 22, 2010 12:08 AM To: NewPoetry List Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Fueled by Jealousy opps Envy! Madame King _ since you speak in the editorial we, you invite yourself to be seen as a rep. I wonder what Walt would say? or Anne, or the other fine tenderers of American poetry? They would probably say, "Bugger off, sunny jim!" ? Or, more succinctly in the word of a character in a play by a somewhat more eminent Parisian: ? "Merde!" ? Robin -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jschickl at hotmail.com Thu Oct 21 20:26:48 2010 From: jschickl at hotmail.com (Jared Schickling) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2010 18:26:48 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fuel / Jealousy / Humanities / Crises In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Reading "Orphee's" "what matter your personal name," thought I'd pass along this awesome little bi-monthly newsletter -- Orphee, you'd enjoy it, perhaps -- available for free via request, and donations of any amount are accepted -- called Sous les Paves (google will find it), ed by Micah Robbins and his Interbirth Books. Re Orphee's "personal name" there's a preview / contextualization of Punch Press's soon to be released Kent Johnson chap, A Question Mark above the Sun: Documents on the Mystery Surrounding a Famous Poem "by" Frank O'Hara. The title of the piece is Kent Johnson Is the Author of Beowulf: Literary Hoaxes and the 'Desire for Origins.' Johnson's antics and actual project might not escape the charge of being ancient but there's the point that manages to persist... But my point is to recommend Sous les Paves -- in addition to the two articles some other kind of prose and verse and everything packaged in tight conceptual arc -- it is truly amazing (in my opinion) and down in the dirt free! Also I remember Robin's question a while back about what's going on over here -- and current point re the "fine tenderers of american potery" -- there's a great little article in the newsletter to that effect: "...What's new about this year's [Boston Book] festival, however, is the dirty bomb angle - spreading the cultural radiation beyond the convention center via the pseudo-community of the 'One City, One Story' program. In an otherwise cheerleading article about the city's adoption of a read-and-discuss initiative like those already piloted in Seattle and Chicago, a Boston Globe writer inadvertently let the mask slip when he identified such programs as 'cousins of the team-building exercises commonly staged at corporate retreats.' And sure enough, Boston's version does have a primary corporate sponsor, the Goldhirsh Foundation. Set up in 2000 by Bernard Goldhirsh after he was diagnosed with brain cancer, the foundation awards grants for brain cancer research and 'social entrepreneurial ventures.' But the late Goldhirsh's philanthropy goes back further than that: as a young engineer he worked on ballistic missile systems to keep us safe from communism and later moved on to found Inc., a business magazine best known for their annual 'Inc. 500' list of fastest-growing companies. The story itself was selected in bureaucratic back-room fashion by a committee made up of 'a designee from the Mayor's office, several branch librarians, several Boston Book Festival Board members and one or two other representatives of the community,' in which Perrotta's 'The Smile on Happy Chang's Face' - originally published in Post Road and reprinted in Best American Short Stories 2005 - somehow emerged as the consensus choice (Perrotta also sits on the festival's 'Honorary Advising Board')..." The piece contains some fine words on middle-management culture while critiquing the actual story to consider just why the city would choose to disseminate 30,000 copies in its own cover emblazoned with a Nike swoosh. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From robin.hamilton3 at virginmedia.com Thu Oct 21 20:35:11 2010 From: robin.hamilton3 at virginmedia.com (Robin Hamilton) Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2010 01:35:11 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fueled by Jealousy opps Envy! In-Reply-To: <963210.34865.qm@web35502.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <8CD3B6EAFA1C3F1-2158-B41F@webmail-m080.sysops.aol.com><171499.96754.qm@web110515.mail.gq1.yahoo.com><1294553034-1287253949-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1975905001-@bda697.bisx.prod.on.blackberry><840501.69997.qm@web33307.mail.mud.yahoo.com><8CD3BEFABD60E32-1AA8-1363A@webmail-m003.sysops.aol.com><769021.3250.qm@web33303.mail.mud.yahoo.com><240568.35163.qm@web83302.mail.sp1.yahoo.com><772930.21865.qm@web33304.mail.mud.yahoo.com><7D8FE8252A274CC0A90A00CBDE06D70A@OwnerPC> <963210.34865.qm@web35502.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <772CBAE3A65B4804A399548472F6442A@OwnerPC> Appositely, I seem to be thinking about turds at the moment, attempting to trace the involutions of the phrase, "thou shalt pek my iere || In thy gan" [Copland, Highway to the Spital House (1530)] through to Jonson's Gypsies Metamorphosed in 1620, where we have (a [n im] possibly complicated linguistic joke), "to nip a Jan". [The Jonson phrase is normally glossed as "to cut a purse" but might as easily mean, "to steal a turd".] Somewhere along the road, it struck me to wonder whether there is any connection between Vagabond Cant "jere" ([possibly] turd) and Jarry? Just a thot. Robin From: Alexander Dickow Sent: Friday, October 22, 2010 12:41 AM To: NewPoetry List Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Fueled by Jealousy opps Envy! Robin, By my green candle, I say to you, hear, hear. May we rip the ear'ns off this orphee person. Alex www.alexdickow.net/blog/ les mots! ah quel d?sert ? la fin merveilleux. -- Henri Droguet -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd at ripon.edu Thu Oct 21 23:05:20 2010 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2010 22:05:20 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Pinsky article: How can poetry that doesn't rhyme be so pleasing to the ear? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Many years ago I taught a seminar I called The American Idiom. The idea was to look at modern American poetry through the lens of what Williams and Frost had in common (rather than their obvious differences). WCW and Frost have long been my two favorite modern American poets, and while I'm sure they would have gotten in a fist fight if they'd been put in the same room, I agree with Pinsky that they are more similar than it might at first seem. My third "anchor" poet was Gwendolyn Brooks, in part because I wanted someone who self-consciously wrote in an American idiom (she once called her version "Blackening English"), and in part because her career nicely spans that oh-so-tiresome free verse/metrical divide that people love to get hot and bothered about. If I were teaching the course today I'd definitely add two or three more anchor poets, and attempt to bring things a bit closer to the present. ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.me.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== On Oct 20, 2010, at 11:59 AM, Crisman Cooley wrote: > Thanks for the Pinsky article David. I appreciate Pinsky's essays and been educated by them, such as _The Sounds of Poetry_, etc., as I have also been educated by your posts over the years. I hear the WCW tho still find the sounds hard if not harsh. They also seem to have had also the unintended effect of leading his followers astray (I don't think that's his responsibility). > > To my ears, Frost's "An Old Man's Winter Night" destroys all arguments against him as a poet. Not to start a new argument. > Full article, with readings of Frost & W. C. Williams: http://www.slate.com/id/2271417/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From amyhappens at yahoo.com Thu Oct 21 23:21:27 2010 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2010 20:21:27 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Fueled by Jealousy opps Envy! In-Reply-To: <7D8FE8252A274CC0A90A00CBDE06D70A@OwnerPC> References: <8CD3B6EAFA1C3F1-2158-B41F@webmail-m080.sysops.aol.com><171499.96754.qm@web110515.mail.gq1.yahoo.com><1294553034-1287253949-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1975905001-@bda697.bisx.prod.on.blackberry><840501.69997.qm@web33307.mail.mud.yahoo.com><8CD3BEFABD60E32-1AA8-1363A@webmail-m003.sysops.aol.com><769021.3250.qm@web33303.mail.mud.yahoo.com><240568.35163.qm@web83302.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <772930.21865.qm@web33304.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <7D8FE8252A274CC0A90A00CBDE06D70A@OwnerPC> Message-ID: <675333.91758.qm@web83301.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Or they may say, "Be a little more interesting at the very least, you drunken lout." If he's gonna highjack Pessoa et al in an attempt to school us, he shouldn't bore us to tears in the process. The ancient jargon of regal patriarch ("Madame") is even more banal than the rest. Orphee might consider laying off the Thunderbird for his next "retort" ... Amy From: orphee Sent: Friday, October 22, 2010 12:08 AM To: NewPoetry List Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Fueled by Jealousy opps Envy! Madame King _ since you speak in the editorial we, you invite yourself to be seen as a rep. I wonder what Walt would say? or Anne, or the other fine tenderers of American poetry? They would probably say, "Bugger off, sunny jim!" Or, more succinctly in the word of a character in a play by a somewhat more eminent Parisian: "Merde!" Robin -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Fri Oct 22 03:44:09 2010 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2010 09:44:09 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] TOMORROW: Poets for Living Waters reading with Jan Heller Levi, Marcella Durand, Nicole Cooley, Heidi Lynn Staples and others! In-Reply-To: <430896.47203.qm@web83305.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: <430896.47203.qm@web83305.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Great, wonderful Works. On Fri, Oct 22, 2010 at 12:32 AM, amy king wrote: > Join us on tomorrow for an evening of poetry and eco-poetics ? a great > lineup and a good cause! > > > > > > POETS FOR LIVING WATERS > > > > ** > > > > Join poets *Nicole Cooley* and *Tonya Foster*, poets and editors of the *Poets > for Living Waters* initiative *Amy King* and *Heidi Lynn Staples*, and > guest readers *Jan Heller Levi*, *Marcella Durand*, *Julian T. Brolaski*, > *Ana Bozicevic*, *Joanna Hoffman*, and *Brenda Iijima* for an evening of > poetry and eco-poetics in the wake of large-scale catastrophes in the Gulf > and the surrounding regions. The online poetry forum and activist group *Poets > for Living Waters* features daily poetic responses to the recent oil > spill; for more information, visit *www.poetsforlivingwaters.com.* > > > > *Friday, October 22th, 6:30pm*** > > * * > > *The Skylight Room (9100)* > > The Graduate Center, CUNY > > 365 Fifth Ave (btwn 34th & 35th) > > *FREE AND OPEN TO THE PUBLIC* > > No registration. Please arrive early for a seat. 212-817-2005 > > > > *www.centerforthehumanitiesgc.org* > > > > > > > > > > -- > ********* > VIDA: Women in Literary Arts > + Interviews > > Amy's Alias > + http://amyking.org/ > ******** > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Fri Oct 22 08:29:15 2010 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2010 07:29:15 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] My Review of Joseph Bathanti at The Pedestal In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4CC1839B.5040802@nut-n-but.net> http://www.thepedestalmagazine.com/gallery.php?item=14063 That's where to go to rea what I have to say about Joseph Bathanti's /Restoring Ancient Art/. Bathanti os an example of the many good poets Few have heard of. I'd never heard of him till asked to review his book, at any rate. So my review is worth reading if only for that. I got paid for the review, and poets get paid for poems at /The Pedestal/, so it's something definitely to look into for New-Poetry participants, particularly as it is fairly solidly mainstream, but open to everything, I guess, because it feature a visual poetry gallery in its last issue, or maybe one issue back, which is how I learned of its existence. My review should also give those who think I hate every kind of poetry but the few extremely marginal variety that I compose proof that that isn't so, since, for some, my word that it isn't seems to be insufficent. Any comments on the review, negative or postive, would be welcome. Oh, and after the long discussion a week or two ago here, whether I was able to say something about more than the subject of Bathanti's poems, as I assert a good reviewer should do, should interest those who contributed to that discussion. I think I did, but it was difficult. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Fri Oct 22 08:35:20 2010 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2010 07:35:20 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Unneeded Correction--because I'm so disgusted with myself. In-Reply-To: <4CC1839B.5040802@nut-n-but.net> References: <4CC1839B.5040802@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <4CC18508.7020202@nut-n-but.net> That's where to go to READ! (See previous post of mine.) I really have to at least skim my posts before I send them out. I just about never do. Hence, the many stupid little mistakes always in them. --Bob From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Fri Oct 22 09:05:10 2010 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2010 08:05:10 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Two New Coinages In-Reply-To: <4CC1839B.5040802@nut-n-but.net> References: <4CC1839B.5040802@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <4CC18C06.4060504@nut-n-but.net> "Magnipetry" and "magnipoet." maahg NIH peh tree and MAAH nih POH eht. Two new coinages of mine that New-Poetry is the first to know about, even before my blog readers. I know probably no one at all but I will now use them, but I've been needing them for years. As I hope will be clear, they mean "superior poetry," and "superior poet." My many critics will tell me that "superior poetry" and "superior poet" or like adjective/noun combinations, have been available for years, and proven satisfactory for everyone but me. So why cram two new words for what they mean into the lexicon. Well, for one thing, I believe important things should have names, not descriptions, which "superior poetry" is. (Am I really the only person in the world who believes this? Sometimes I think so.) I hope my terms suggest "magnificence." I feel they ought quite clearly to say, "large poetry" and "large poet." Where I've often found myself wanting such a word is in discussions of what makes a poet, when we're talking about what makes a poet worth reading or listening to. One always has to stick an adjective in. Than there's my problem with those who denounce poetry they don't like as "not poetry," when they have to mean they're speaking of bad poetry. If they aren't, then they need a name for what the texts they are referring to is. "Doggerel" is a good one for some but not all of it. They can say, "This is not good poetry," but that sounds weak to me. They mean more than that, so we need a single name for it. "Poetaster" is a good word for inferior poet, but it seems awkward to me, and "poetastry" isn't (yet) a word. Even with "poetaster," which I'm not even sure how to pronounce, we still need a name for "good poet," since a poetaster is a kind of poet, not a non-poet. The real reason I suddenly last night, having woken up with a headache in the middle of the night for a few minutes, I made my coinages. I was thinking about a long division poem I've sketched in which I divide something (I forget what, right now) into "poetry." I times it by Shakespeare's signature, and I get a graphic that's about /A MIdsummer Night's Dream/, which I think is Shakespeare's most poetic comedy, and a favorite of mine. But there's a remainder. My problem is that the graphic is a poem, in my view--since it has words. Moreover, some of the words play poetic word-games. So there should not be a remainder. But I really want what is divided into to be "poetry of the highest order." I thought of various phrases for that, including, "poetry of the highest order," but didn't like them. Nothing with more than one word in it had the sock I wanted, the sock that "poetry," would have if I could use it. Hence, "magnipetry." Ot will keep most people from liking the poem as much as I'd like them to, but "poetry," just isn't right. The same word will damage my long series of various long divisions of "poetry," which I've always thought had the same problem this new piece has. On the other hand, if my math poetry ever catches on, and people like my series, it's possible the word might catch on. While people have little trouble with new names for new things, they seem wired not to accept new names for old things, even important old things that have never had a name, like visual art (which I now call "visimagery," after auditioning more than a dozen names). But I won't give up. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From almaginnes at aol.com Fri Oct 22 08:07:48 2010 From: almaginnes at aol.com (almaginnes at aol.com) Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2010 08:07:48 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] My Review of Joseph Bathanti at The Pedestal In-Reply-To: <4CC1839B.5040802@nut-n-but.net> References: <4CC1839B.5040802@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <8CD3FF8E1067809-2078-189A@Webmail-m106.sysops.aol.com> Good on you, Bob. Joseph is a terrific poet and novelist. He is also one of my dearest friends and in fact wrote a letter for my wife and I when we were in the process of adopting our daughter. Restoring Ancient Art is a fine book and deserves more attention than it's gotten. Al -----Original Message----- From: Bob Grumman To: NewPoetry List Sent: Fri, Oct 22, 2010 8:29 am Subject: [New-Poetry] My Review of Joseph Bathanti at The Pedestal http://www.thepedestalmagazine.com/gallery.php?item=14063 That's where to go to rea what I have to say about Joseph Bathanti's Restoring Ancient Art. Bathanti os an example of the many good poets Few have heard of. I'd never heard of him till asked to review his book, at any rate. So my review is worth reading if only for that. I got paid for the review, and poets get paid for poems at The Pedestal, so it's something definitely to look into for New-Poetry participants, particularly as it is fairly solidly mainstream, but open to everything, I guess, because it feature a visual poetry gallery in its last issue, or maybe one issue back, which is how I learned of its existence. My review should also give those who think I hate every kind of poetry but the few extremely marginal variety that I compose proof that that isn't so, since, for some, my word that it isn't seems to be insufficent. Any comments on the review, negative or postive, would be welcome. Oh, and after the long discussion a week or two ago here, whether I was able to say something about more than the subject of Bathanti's poems, as I assert a good reviewer should do, should interest those who contributed to that discussion. I think I did, but it was difficult. --Bob _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Fri Oct 22 09:27:52 2010 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2010 08:27:52 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] My Review of Joseph Bathanti at The Pedestal In-Reply-To: <8CD3FF8E1067809-2078-189A@Webmail-m106.sysops.aol.com> References: <4CC183 9B.5040802@nut-n-but.net> <8CD3FF8E1067809-2078-189A@Webmail-m106.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <4CC19158.6060602@nut-n-but.net> Thanks much, Al. Of course, if I had known he was a friend of /yours/, I never woulda said anything nice about his book! Seriously, I do much prefer to be able to say good things about a poet, than bad. Although I /do /enjoy saying bad things about poets I think excessively over-rated. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From almaginnes at aol.com Fri Oct 22 08:27:31 2010 From: almaginnes at aol.com (almaginnes at aol.com) Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2010 08:27:31 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] My Review of Joseph Bathanti at The Pedestal In-Reply-To: <4CC19158.6060602@nut-n-but.net> References: <4CC1839B.5040802@nut-n-but.net><8CD3FF8E1067809-2078-189A@Webmail-m106.sysops.aol.com> <4CC19158.6060602@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <8CD3FFBA1DC83E3-2078-1DC0@Webmail-m106.sysops.aol.com> That's why he asks me to keep it quiet, Bob. -----Original Message----- From: Bob Grumman To: NewPoetry List Sent: Fri, Oct 22, 2010 9:27 am Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] My Review of Joseph Bathanti at The Pedestal Thanks much, Al. Of course, if I had known he was a friend of yours, I never woulda said anything nice about his book! Seriously, I do much prefer to be able to say good things about a poet, than bad. Although I do enjoy saying bad things about poets I think excessively over-rated. --Bob _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Fri Oct 22 11:01:06 2010 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2010 10:01:06 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] My Review of Joseph Bathanti at The Pedestal In-Reply-To: <8CD3FFBA1DC83E3-2078-1DC0@Webmail-m106.sysops.aol.com> References: <4CC183 9B.5040802@nut-n-but.net><8CD3FF8E1067809-2078-189A@Webmail-m106.sysops.aol.com><4CC19158.6060602@nut-n-but.net> <8CD3FFBA1DC83E3-2078-1DC0@Webmail-m106.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <4CC1A732.5070004@nut-n-but.net> On 10/22/2010 7:27 AM, almaginnes at aol.com wrote: > That's why he asks me to keep it quiet, Bob. ;-) > > > > > Since it won't make me as a favorable reviewer of Bathanti look too good, I'll certainly keep quiet about it, too, Al. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Fri Oct 22 11:12:21 2010 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2010 10:12:21 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Two New Coinages In-Reply-To: <4CC18C06.4060504@nut-n-but.net> References: <4CC183 9B.5040802@nut-n-but.net> <4CC18C06.4060504@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <4CC1A9D5.8040201@nut-n-but.net> Scratch "magnipoet." I think we can get along without it. "Magnipetry" I think could be of use. To read a less sloppy discussion of the subject, go to my blog at http://poeticks.com. --Bob From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Fri Oct 22 11:50:58 2010 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2010 17:50:58 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] My Review of Joseph Bathanti at The Pedestal In-Reply-To: <4CC1A732.5070004@nut-n-but.net> References: <8CD3FF8E1067809-2078-189A@Webmail-m106.sysops.aol.com> <4CC19158.6060602@nut-n-but.net> <8CD3FFBA1DC83E3-2078-1DC0@Webmail-m106.sysops.aol.com> <4CC1A732.5070004@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: This is an excellent review, Bob. Congratulations, thanks also for opening the article by mentioning us all, :-) On Fri, Oct 22, 2010 at 5:01 PM, Bob Grumman wrote: > On 10/22/2010 7:27 AM, almaginnes at aol.com wrote: > > That's why he asks me to keep it quiet, Bob. [image: ;-)] > > > > > > Since it won't make me as a favorable reviewer of Bathanti look too good, > I'll certainly keep quiet about it, too, Al. > > --Bob > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ccooley at overdomain.com Fri Oct 22 11:13:15 2010 From: ccooley at overdomain.com (Crisman Cooley) Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2010 08:13:15 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fueled by Jealousy opps Envy! Message-ID: Did you forget to wrap the pshitt in Jarry's clear plastic baggie? 'merdre' > From: Robin Hamilton > Sent: Fri, October 22, 2010 1:17:54 AM > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Fueled by Jealousy opps Envy! > > > ? > > > From: orphee > Sent: Friday, October 22, 2010 12:08 AM > To: NewPoetry List > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Fueled by Jealousy opps Envy! > > Madame King _ since you speak in the editorial we, you invite yourself to > be > seen as a rep. I wonder what Walt would say? or Anne, or the other fine > tenderers of American poetry? > > They would probably say, "Bugger off, sunny jim!" > ? > Or, more succinctly in the word of a character in a play by a somewhat more > eminent Parisian: > ? > "Merde!" > ? > Robin > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From robin.hamilton3 at virginmedia.com Fri Oct 22 14:17:09 2010 From: robin.hamilton3 at virginmedia.com (Robin Hamilton) Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2010 19:17:09 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fueled by Jealousy opps Envy! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <40E9DA8CE02A44F49B54233CCE3DC2A4@OwnerPC> Ah, it was a Sooper Dooper Pooper Scooper. I always have trouble with my peas (less so with queues), as frisntance the postrophe in 'pataphysics. I always put one in, but there's a school of thot says it should be (simply) Pataphysics, bit like whether or not cummings should be spelled upper class or lowercase. Then there's Psmith (in the city) ... Robin (channeling Mehitabel's psalms) From: Crisman Cooley Sent: Friday, October 22, 2010 4:13 PM To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Fueled by Jealousy opps Envy! Did you forget to wrap the pshitt in Jarry's clear plastic baggie? 'merdre' From: Robin Hamilton Sent: Fri, October 22, 2010 1:17:54 AM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Fueled by Jealousy opps Envy! ? From: orphee Sent: Friday, October 22, 2010 12:08 AM To: NewPoetry List Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Fueled by Jealousy opps Envy! Madame King _ since you speak in the editorial we, you invite yourself to be seen as a rep. I wonder what Walt would say? or Anne, or the other fine tenderers of American poetry? They would probably say, "Bugger off, sunny jim!" ? Or, more succinctly in the word of a character in a play by a somewhat more eminent Parisian: ? "Merde!" ? Robin -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Fri Oct 22 16:18:50 2010 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2010 15:18:50 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] My Review of Joseph Bathanti at The Pedestal In-Reply-To: References: <8CD3FF 8E1067809-2078-189A@Webmail-m106.sysops.aol.com><4CC19158.6060602@nut-n-but.net><8CD3FFBA1DC83E3-2078-1DC0@Webmail-m106.sysops. aol.com><4CC1A732.5070004@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <4CC1F1AA.3000408@nut-n-but.net> On 10/22/2010 10:50 AM, Anny Ballardini wrote: > This is an excellent review, Bob. Congratulations, thanks also for > opening the article by mentioning us all, :-) Thanks, Anny. I hope the mention drawa anew voice ro two the New-Poetry. --Bob From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Sat Oct 23 04:15:57 2010 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2010 10:15:57 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Talking with Poets by Dick Allen Message-ID: Talking with Poets by Dick Allen Gossip is most of it, a barrier of thorns and small berries Cultivated to disguise a wall, False entrances and gates with shallow courtyards behind them, And sometimes a few gypsies slowly dancing in firelight Or swinging pails as they take a path down through the forest To an old mossy well. Small heaps of masks, And costumes with puffy sleeves or threadbare blouses Lie beside the moat, are rummaged through As often as not. But the poets seldom talk Of forays they've taken; although they are always riding In and out, mounting or dismounting, holding The traces, wiping their brows and calling For strong drink and friends, their verbal reports Are sketchy, reluctant. No, they would rather laugh Than speak of high rooms and the maiden's cot, Books on stone shelves, what shackled prisoners They may have been shown. . . . Yet if all this sounds Too romantic, consider the cop coming home To his house in the suburbs, how he pretends There are no city streets until he walks their shadows; Or the bored-to-death businessman, The void he plunges daily, rising out of it Like a circling, wounded hawk, blood under his nails And in his throat, seeking Lethe In television comedies or children's homework grades; Or the doctor who vanishes Into a nightmare of tumors, splintered bones, The cardiographic line of a dead horizon, CAT scans and mottled skin, before she finds herself Whispering for the mercy of an airplane above layered clouds, Flirtation, oblivion. . . . Still, if only the poets Would cease in their talk of grants and reputation, Reviews, or lack of them, readings, teaching loads, Editors and enjambment, then on an autumn evening When the wall is a looming thing of masonry, Bulwarks and turrets, and a king walks by himself Under limpid banners, how I would love to hear (for I have read their books, and like you marvelled), Of the way they find Blue Sailors by a country road, Wander in Sibelius, or how they've taught their lines To study a landscape starting with morning sunlight Coasting the grass. Talking with poets, I could be enthralled by cries of Russian wolves, The smell of vanilla flavoring in an open brown bottle, What happens when they look at statesmen's eyes? If only they were not so distrustful, so afraid, so exhausted, So bent on saving themselves for the perfect man or woman Who will listen to their voices in another time More living to them now than these roses, these open palms. -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cervantes.james at gmail.com Sat Oct 23 09:52:45 2010 From: cervantes.james at gmail.com (James Cervantes) Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2010 06:52:45 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Here's a bone Message-ID: Much to dispute, much to agree with: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/anis-shivani/creative-writing-programs-corrupt_b_757653.html -- Jim ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning http://www.fieralingue.it/documenti/mr_bondo.pdf http://www.poetserv.org/jvc/home/index.html http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamescervantes/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at gmail.com Sat Oct 23 10:41:29 2010 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2010 09:41:29 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Here's a bone In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Nice to see someone putting his analogical reasoning to good use. Hal Serving the tri-state area. Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home *Mainly Black , **Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ;* *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; * ***Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; * ***G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; * *Transparencies & Projections * On Sat, Oct 23, 2010 at 8:52 AM, James Cervantes wrote: > Much to dispute, much to agree with: > > > http://www.huffingtonpost.com/anis-shivani/creative-writing-programs-corrupt_b_757653.html > > > -- Jim > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org > http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning > http://www.fieralingue.it/documenti/mr_bondo.pdf > http://www.poetserv.org/jvc/home/index.html > http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamescervantes/ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cervantes.james at gmail.com Sun Oct 24 12:30:27 2010 From: cervantes.james at gmail.com (James Cervantes) Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2010 09:30:27 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Still new, forever new Message-ID: *The Fall/Winter 2010 issue of The Salt River Review is online, with Poetry by* Tad Richards, Laura Jensen, Hillary Hays, Skip Fox, Josepha Gutelius, Liliana Ursu, Lynn Strongin, Millicent Borges Accardi, Keith Moul, Nic Sebastian, Jeannine Savard, Sergio Ortiz, Liz Ahl, Anastasia Hager, Sheila E. Murphy, John Morgan, Marcus Bales, Wendy Carlisle, Paulann Petersen, Ed Harkness, Frances Ruhlen McConnel, Carlos Reyes, Greg Simon, & Tess Gallagher. *Fiction* by Kulpreet Yadav, Lori White, Donna D. Vitucci, Robert Vaughan, Tim Tomlinson, Tessa Smith McGovern, Janis Einfelds, trans. Inara Cedrins, John Danahy & Shirley Sullivan. *Belles Lettres: Wherein prose poems, nonfiction, essays, and other writings are found:* Skip Fox, John Yohe, Laura Jensen, Reamy Jansen, & Greg Simon. And an *Afterword:* Greg Simon, Lynda Schor, James Cervantes. http://www.poetserv.org *This is the Farewell Issue!* -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From david.weinstock at gmail.com Sun Oct 24 12:22:09 2010 From: david.weinstock at gmail.com (David Weinstock) Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2010 12:22:09 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] A different crisis of the humanities Message-ID: *Iran says some academic courses too "Western"* TEHRAN (Reuters) - Iran will not allow its universities to begin teaching certain disciplines it deems too "Western," and existing courses will be revised, a senior Education Ministry was quoted as saying Sunday. "Expansion of 12 disciplines in the social sciences like law, women's studies, human rights, management, sociology, philosophy....psychology and political sciences will be reviewed," Abolfazl Hassani was quoted as saying in the Arman newspaper. "These sciences' contents are based on Western culture. The review will be the intention of making them compatible with Islamic teachings." Hassani said Iranian universities will not be allowed to open new departments in these disciplines and the curricula for existing departments would be revised. Iran's hard-line rulers accuse the West of trying to harm the Islamic state by influencing the country's young generation with "decadent" culture. Pointing to the enrolment of some 2 million out of a total of 3.5 million university students in the humanities, in August Iran's most powerful figure Ayatollah Ali Khamenei called for modification of these studies. "Many disciplines in the humanities are based on principles founded on materialism disbelieving the divine Islamic teachings," Khamenei said in a speech reported by state media. "Thus such teachings...will lead to the dissemination of doubt in the foundations of religious teachings." Access to the Internet and illegal satellite television mean Western popular culture is king among young Iranians, a vital constituency in a country where 70 percent of the population is under 30 and has no real memory of the 1979 Islamic revolution which toppled the U.S.-backed Shah. (Writing by Parisa Hafezi, Editing by Michael Roddy -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at gmail.com Sun Oct 24 18:17:34 2010 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2010 17:17:34 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] A different crisis of the humanities In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Jeezuss! This could almost be in Texas. Hal Serving the tri-state area. Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home *Mainly Black , **Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ;* *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; * ***Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; * ***G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; * *Transparencies & Projections * On Sun, Oct 24, 2010 at 11:22 AM, David Weinstock wrote: > *Iran says some academic courses too "Western"* > > > > TEHRAN (Reuters) - Iran will not allow its universities to begin teaching > certain disciplines it deems too "Western," and existing courses will be > revised, a senior Education Ministry was quoted as saying Sunday. > > > > "Expansion of 12 disciplines in the social sciences like law, women's > studies, human rights, management, sociology, philosophy....psychology and > political sciences will be reviewed," Abolfazl Hassani was quoted as saying > in the Arman newspaper. > > > > "These sciences' contents are based on Western culture. The review will be > the intention of making them compatible with Islamic teachings." > > > > Hassani said Iranian universities will not be allowed to open new > departments in these disciplines and the curricula for existing departments > would be revised. > > > > Iran's hard-line rulers accuse the West of trying to harm the Islamic state > by influencing the country's young generation with "decadent" culture. > > > > Pointing to the enrolment of some 2 million out of a total of 3.5 million > university students in the humanities, in August Iran's most powerful figure > Ayatollah Ali Khamenei called for modification of these studies. > > > > "Many disciplines in the humanities are based on principles founded on > materialism disbelieving the divine Islamic teachings," Khamenei said in a > speech reported by state media. > > > > "Thus such teachings...will lead to the dissemination of doubt in the > foundations of religious teachings." > > > > Access to the Internet and illegal satellite television mean Western > popular culture is king among young Iranians, a vital constituency in a > country where 70 percent of the population is under 30 and has no real > memory of the 1979 Islamic revolution which toppled the U.S.-backed Shah. > > > (Writing by Parisa Hafezi, Editing by Michael Roddy > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From amyhappens at yahoo.com Sun Oct 24 18:33:23 2010 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king) Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2010 15:33:23 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetry speed ... Message-ID: <167479.7501.qm@web83307.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Our website speed, Esque, has dramatically improved!! http://www.esquemag.com/ Enjoy, Amy ******** Now That's WAC + http://wearechampion.blogspot.com/2010/08/amy-king.html Amy's Alias + http://amyking.org/ ******** From halvard at gmail.com Sun Oct 24 18:43:59 2010 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2010 17:43:59 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] On Not Getting to Second Base Message-ID: On Not Getting to Second Base I met a traveler from the old country who said, ?Two men down in the bottom of the ninth and no one left in the bullpen. A broken-bat single and we were alive again, ready to do some damage even though the baseline seats were nearly deserted. On the mound near the rosin bag, a pitcher?s foot, half off the rubber, twists and paws the dirt. Over the shoulder, a wrinkled lip and cold mocking glance toward first. He stamped the rubber, shook the sand from his cleats, and nodded to the catcher after shaking off three signals. A passionate glare from the one who squatted behind the plate, and the wind-up began. Another glance at first. Beyond the pitcher?s mound, beyond second base, beyond centerfield, the batter could see the statue and the words that appear at the base of the statue, below the pointing hand that mocked us: ?My name is George Herman Ruth, Sultan of Swat! Look at my work and despair.? Nothing left now of our season. Around the decomposing year, only that sinking feeling of one final failure: the crack of the bat in my hands, and the run, the tear around first and the final out, trying to stretch a single into a double. The long, slow walk to the clubhouse.? Hal Serving the tri-state area. Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home *Mainly Black , **Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ;* *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; * ***Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; * ***G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; * *Transparencies & Projections * -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd at ripon.edu Sun Oct 24 20:16:56 2010 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2010 19:16:56 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] James Wright & America Message-ID: The Paris Review has just placed all its writers' interviews online. What a goldmine. I expect I'll be exploring them for some time--revisiting ones I read way back when, & catching up with ones new to me. Not everyone gives good interview. One of the best in my recollection was James Wright, interview published in 1975. I just re-read it, and my opinion did not change. Wright does stray from discussing poetry from time to time. Here's a favorite passage of mine, which I've remembered for 35 years. Under discussion is JW's book *Two Citizens*, and then Wright makes the following aside-- My wife, Annie, who means so much to me, introduced me to Europe, which we love. And yet we know that we also love America. We know that at this time Americans, who are good people and a kind of lost people, are suffering very badly. There is so much vitality in this country, there are so many good men, good, kind, intelligent men. Where did it all go wrong? May I quote Mencken? ?There are many people in this country, some of whom are handsome, and many of whom are wise, and Calvin Coolidge is President of the United States. It is as though a man, seated before a sumptuous banquet, were to turn aside and regale himself by eating flies.? http://www.theparisreview.org/interviews/3839/the-art-of-poetry-no-19-james-wright ---------------------- ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.me.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Sun Oct 24 20:54:48 2010 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2010 20:54:48 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] WorldPo: new Leopardi translations by Galassi Message-ID: <8CD41F65B8FB5B6-17E0-17066@webmail-d080.sysops.aol.com> http://mail.aol.com/32823-111/aol-1/en-us/Suite.aspx Sometime in the fall of 1821, the great Italian poet Giacomo Leopardi, then 23 years old, composed an ode for his beloved younger sister Paolina's upcoming wedding. As a later critic observed, the poem is more a dirge than a hymn in honor of the bride. Paolina probably knew better than to expect mindless cheer from her melancholy brother. She was well aware that Giacomo wouldn't be heading up the conga line at the wedding banquet. Still, she must have been taken aback by the brutal tactlessness of such lines as these, in Jonathan Galassi's new translation: The children that you'll have will either be cowards or unhappy. Let them be unhappy. You could easily conclude that the young Leopardi had precious little sense of occasion. But you might also conclude that this was a poet who cultivated a fierce regard for the truth, however harsh. On both counts you'd be right. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Mon Oct 25 03:46:32 2010 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2010 09:46:32 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] WorldPo: new Leopardi translations by Galassi In-Reply-To: <8CD41F65B8FB5B6-17E0-17066@webmail-d080.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CD41F65B8FB5B6-17E0-17066@webmail-d080.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: James, I think the link you included is wrong. Leopardi is full of surprises. Although those lines are macabre. But if you think of it, if you are a coward, then you will never push out your eyes to see what is happening, while if you accept the bright curiosity to look around, then you can't but be unhappy. On Mon, Oct 25, 2010 at 2:54 AM, wrote: > http://mail.aol.com/32823-111/aol-1/en-us/Suite.aspx > > Sometime in the fall of 1821, the great Italian poet Giacomo Leopardi, then > 23 years old, composed an ode for his beloved younger sister Paolina's > upcoming wedding. As a later critic observed, the poem is more a dirge than > a hymn in honor of the bride. Paolina probably knew better than to expect > mindless cheer from her melancholy brother. She was well aware that Giacomo > wouldn't be heading up the conga line at the wedding banquet. > > Still, she must have been taken aback by the brutal tactlessness of such > lines as these, in Jonathan Galassi's new translation: > > The children that you'll have will > either be > cowards or unhappy. Let them > be unhappy. > > You could easily conclude that the young Leopardi had precious little sense > of occasion. But you might also conclude that this was a poet who cultivated > a fierce regard for the truth, however harsh. On both counts you'd be right. > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Mon Oct 25 03:52:47 2010 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2010 09:52:47 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Still new, forever new In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: With such goodies, how can you possibly think of saying Good Bye? No way you can rethink it? And congratulations for this incredible issue, Anny On Sun, Oct 24, 2010 at 6:30 PM, James Cervantes wrote: > *The Fall/Winter 2010 issue of The Salt River Review is online, with > Poetry by* Tad Richards, Laura Jensen, Hillary Hays, Skip Fox, Josepha > Gutelius, Liliana Ursu, Lynn Strongin, Millicent Borges Accardi, Keith Moul, > Nic Sebastian, Jeannine Savard, Sergio Ortiz, Liz Ahl, Anastasia Hager, > Sheila E. Murphy, John Morgan, Marcus Bales, Wendy Carlisle, Paulann > Petersen, Ed Harkness, Frances Ruhlen McConnel, Carlos Reyes, Greg Simon, & > Tess Gallagher. > > > *Fiction* by Kulpreet Yadav, Lori White, Donna D. Vitucci, Robert Vaughan, > Tim Tomlinson, Tessa Smith McGovern, Janis Einfelds, trans. Inara Cedrins, > John Danahy & Shirley Sullivan. > > > *Belles Lettres: Wherein prose poems, nonfiction, essays, and other > writings are found:* Skip Fox, John Yohe, Laura Jensen, Reamy Jansen, & > Greg Simon. > > > > And an *Afterword:* Greg Simon, Lynda Schor, James Cervantes. > > > http://www.poetserv.org > > > *This is the Farewell Issue!* > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Mon Oct 25 03:57:17 2010 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2010 09:57:17 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] A different crisis of the humanities In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: France wanted to cut out the Humanities in the late '70s, tout court, as they say. On Mon, Oct 25, 2010 at 12:17 AM, Halvard Johnson wrote: > Jeezuss! This could almost be in Texas. > > Hal Serving the tri-state area. > > Halvard Johnson > ================ > > halvard at gmail.com > http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > http://www.hamiltonstone.org > > http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home > > *Mainly Black > , **Obras P?blicas > ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets > ;* > *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones > ; **Tango Bouquet > ; **Theory of Harmony > ; * > ***Rapsodie espagnole > ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway > ; **The Sonnet Project > ; * > ***G(e)nome ; **Winter > Journey ; **Eclipse > ; **The Dance of the Red Swan > ;* > *Transparencies & Projections > * > > > > > On Sun, Oct 24, 2010 at 11:22 AM, David Weinstock < > david.weinstock at gmail.com> wrote: > >> *Iran says some academic courses too "Western"* >> >> >> >> TEHRAN (Reuters) - Iran will not allow its universities to begin teaching >> certain disciplines it deems too "Western," and existing courses will be >> revised, a senior Education Ministry was quoted as saying Sunday. >> >> >> >> "Expansion of 12 disciplines in the social sciences like law, women's >> studies, human rights, management, sociology, philosophy....psychology and >> political sciences will be reviewed," Abolfazl Hassani was quoted as saying >> in the Arman newspaper. >> >> >> >> "These sciences' contents are based on Western culture. The review will be >> the intention of making them compatible with Islamic teachings." >> >> >> >> Hassani said Iranian universities will not be allowed to open new >> departments in these disciplines and the curricula for existing departments >> would be revised. >> >> >> >> Iran's hard-line rulers accuse the West of trying to harm the Islamic >> state by influencing the country's young generation with "decadent" culture. >> >> >> >> Pointing to the enrolment of some 2 million out of a total of 3.5 million >> university students in the humanities, in August Iran's most powerful figure >> Ayatollah Ali Khamenei called for modification of these studies. >> >> >> >> "Many disciplines in the humanities are based on principles founded on >> materialism disbelieving the divine Islamic teachings," Khamenei said in a >> speech reported by state media. >> >> >> >> "Thus such teachings...will lead to the dissemination of doubt in the >> foundations of religious teachings." >> >> >> >> Access to the Internet and illegal satellite television mean Western >> popular culture is king among young Iranians, a vital constituency in a >> country where 70 percent of the population is under 30 and has no real >> memory of the 1979 Islamic revolution which toppled the U.S.-backed Shah. >> >> >> (Writing by Parisa Hafezi, Editing by Michael Roddy >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Mon Oct 25 03:51:22 2010 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2010 09:51:22 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] James Wright & America In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: A great find, thank you! On Mon, Oct 25, 2010 at 2:16 AM, David Graham wrote: > The Paris Review has just placed all its writers' interviews online. What > a goldmine. I expect I'll be exploring them for some time--revisiting ones > I read way back when, & catching up with ones new to me. > > Not everyone gives good interview. One of the best in my recollection was > James Wright, interview published in 1975. I just re-read it, and my > opinion did not change. > > Wright does stray from discussing poetry from time to time. Here's a > favorite passage of mine, which I've remembered for 35 years. Under > discussion is JW's book *Two Citizens*, and then Wright makes the following > aside-- > > My wife, Annie, who means so much to me, introduced me to Europe, which we > love. And yet we know that we also love America. We know that at this time > Americans, who are good people and a kind of lost people, are suffering very > badly. There is so much vitality in this country, there are so many good > men, good, kind, intelligent men. Where did it all go wrong? May I quote > Mencken? ?There are many people in this country, some of whom are handsome, > and many of whom are wise, and Calvin Coolidge is President of the United > States. It is as though a man, seated before a sumptuous banquet, were to > turn aside and regale himself by eating flies.? > > http://www.theparisreview.org/interviews/3839/the-art-of-poetry-no-19-james-wright > > > ---------------------- > > > > > ======================================== > David Graham > grahamd at ripon.edu > > Home Page: > http://web.me.com/drjazz > > Poetry Library: > http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html > ========================================== > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From oedipa at gmail.com Mon Oct 25 05:44:20 2010 From: oedipa at gmail.com (karen) Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2010 01:44:20 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] Still new, forever new In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Agreed....great stuff there. On Sun, Oct 24, 2010 at 11:52 PM, Anny Ballardini wrote: > With such goodies, how can you possibly think of saying Good Bye? > No way you can rethink it? > > And congratulations for this incredible issue, Anny > > On Sun, Oct 24, 2010 at 6:30 PM, James Cervantes < > cervantes.james at gmail.com> wrote: > >> *The Fall/Winter 2010 issue of The Salt River Review is online, with >> Poetry by* Tad Richards, Laura Jensen, Hillary Hays, Skip Fox, Josepha >> Gutelius, Liliana Ursu, Lynn Strongin, Millicent Borges Accardi, Keith Moul, >> Nic Sebastian, Jeannine Savard, Sergio Ortiz, Liz Ahl, Anastasia Hager, >> Sheila E. Murphy, John Morgan, Marcus Bales, Wendy Carlisle, Paulann >> Petersen, Ed Harkness, Frances Ruhlen McConnel, Carlos Reyes, Greg Simon, & >> Tess Gallagher. >> >> >> *Fiction* by Kulpreet Yadav, Lori White, Donna D. Vitucci, Robert >> Vaughan, Tim Tomlinson, Tessa Smith McGovern, Janis Einfelds, trans. Inara >> Cedrins, John Danahy & Shirley Sullivan. >> >> >> *Belles Lettres: Wherein prose poems, nonfiction, essays, and other >> writings are found:* Skip Fox, John Yohe, Laura Jensen, Reamy Jansen, & >> Greg Simon. >> >> >> >> And an *Afterword:* Greg Simon, Lynda Schor, James Cervantes. >> >> >> http://www.poetserv.org >> >> >> *This is the Farewell Issue!* >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > > > -- > Anny Ballardini > http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ > http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome > http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 > http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html > I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing > star! > Friedrich Nietzsche > > ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique > vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? > Giovenale > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- k -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cervantes.james at gmail.com Mon Oct 25 11:02:08 2010 From: cervantes.james at gmail.com (James Cervantes) Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2010 08:02:08 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Still new, forever new In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thanks folks. Time, outdated software, for everything there's a season etc. Maybe something else sometime, maybe not. Maybe I will publish a new book! - Jim On Mon, Oct 25, 2010 at 12:52 AM, Anny Ballardini wrote: > With such goodies, how can you possibly think of saying Good Bye? > No way you can rethink it? > > And congratulations for this incredible issue, Anny > > On Sun, Oct 24, 2010 at 6:30 PM, James Cervantes < > cervantes.james at gmail.com> wrote: > >> *The Fall/Winter 2010 issue of The Salt River Review is online, with >> Poetry by* Tad Richards, Laura Jensen, Hillary Hays, Skip Fox, Josepha >> Gutelius, Liliana Ursu, Lynn Strongin, Millicent Borges Accardi, Keith Moul, >> Nic Sebastian, Jeannine Savard, Sergio Ortiz, Liz Ahl, Anastasia Hager, >> Sheila E. Murphy, John Morgan, Marcus Bales, Wendy Carlisle, Paulann >> Petersen, Ed Harkness, Frances Ruhlen McConnel, Carlos Reyes, Greg Simon, & >> Tess Gallagher. >> >> >> *Fiction* by Kulpreet Yadav, Lori White, Donna D. Vitucci, Robert >> Vaughan, Tim Tomlinson, Tessa Smith McGovern, Janis Einfelds, trans. Inara >> Cedrins, John Danahy & Shirley Sullivan. >> >> >> *Belles Lettres: Wherein prose poems, nonfiction, essays, and other >> writings are found:* Skip Fox, John Yohe, Laura Jensen, Reamy Jansen, & >> Greg Simon. >> >> >> >> And an *Afterword:* Greg Simon, Lynda Schor, James Cervantes. >> >> >> http://www.poetserv.org >> >> >> *This is the Farewell Issue!* >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > > > -- > Anny Ballardini > http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ > http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome > http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 > http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html > I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing > star! > Friedrich Nietzsche > > ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique > vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? > Giovenale > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning http://www.fieralingue.it/documenti/mr_bondo.pdf http://www.poetserv.org/jvc/home/index.html http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamescervantes/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Mon Oct 25 11:55:32 2010 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2010 11:55:32 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] WorldPo: new Leopardi translations by Galassi In-Reply-To: References: <8CD41F65B8FB5B6-17E0-17066@webmail-d080.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <8CD427430872E9A-1564-E53@webmail-d001.sysops.aol.com> Ooops...Try this one... http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702304741404575563403980737436.html?mod=WSJ_Books_LS_Books_5 Article is from the Wall Street Journal's quite good weekend section on the books & arts. Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: Anny Ballardini To: NewPoetry List Sent: Mon, Oct 25, 2010 3:46 am Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] WorldPo: new Leopardi translations by Galassi James, I think the link you included is wrong. Leopardi is full of surprises. Although those lines are macabre. But if you think of it, if you are a coward, then you will never push out your eyes to see what is happening, while if you accept the bright curiosity to look around, then you can't but be unhappy. On Mon, Oct 25, 2010 at 2:54 AM, wrote: http://mail.aol.com/32823-111/aol-1/en-us/Suite.aspx Sometime in the fall of 1821, the great Italian poet Giacomo Leopardi, then 23 years old, composed an ode for his beloved younger sister Paolina's upcoming wedding. As a later critic observed, the poem is more a dirge than a hymn in honor of the bride. Paolina probably knew better than to expect mindless cheer from her melancholy brother. She was well aware that Giacomo wouldn't be heading up the conga line at the wedding banquet. Still, she must have been taken aback by the brutal tactlessness of such lines as these, in Jonathan Galassi's new translation: The children that you'll have will either be cowards or unhappy. Let them be unhappy. You could easily conclude that the young Leopardi had precious little sense of occasion. But you might also conclude that this was a poet who cultivated a fierce regard for the truth, however harsh. On both counts you'd be right. _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale _______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Mon Oct 25 13:01:42 2010 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2010 19:01:42 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] WorldPo: new Leopardi translations by Galassi In-Reply-To: <8CD427430872E9A-1564-E53@webmail-d001.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CD41F65B8FB5B6-17E0-17066@webmail-d080.sysops.aol.com> <8CD427430872E9A-1564-E53@webmail-d001.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: The author, Eric Ormsby, speaks of *the shiver in Leopardi's verse*, here is L'Infinito, you can find Mr Galassi's version online: Sempre caro mi fu quest'ermo colle, e questa siepe, che da tanta parte dell'ultimo orizzonte il guardo esclude. Ma sedendo e mirando, interminati spazi di l? da quella, e sovrumani silenzi, e profondissima qu?ete io nel pensier mi fingo, ove per poco il cor non si spaura. E come il vento odo stormir tra queste piante, io quello infinito silenzio a questa voce vo comparando: e mi sovvien l'eterno, e le morte stagioni, e la presente e viva, e il suon di lei. Cos? tra questa immensit? s'annega il pensier mio: e il naufragar m'? dolce in questo mare Duncanson's *The Wanderer's View*, in its cold liquidity, depicts somehow the spirit of the by now distant time. On Mon, Oct 25, 2010 at 5:55 PM, wrote: > Ooops...Try this one... > > > http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702304741404575563403980737436.html?mod=WSJ_Books_LS_Books_5 > Article is from the Wall Street Journal's quite good weekend section on > the books & arts. > Finnegan > -----Original Message----- > From: Anny Ballardini > To: NewPoetry List > Sent: Mon, Oct 25, 2010 3:46 am > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] WorldPo: new Leopardi translations by Galassi > > James, I think the link you included is wrong. Leopardi is full of > surprises. Although those lines are macabre. But if you think of it, if you > are a coward, then you will never push out your eyes to see what is > happening, while if you accept the bright curiosity to look around, then you > can't but be unhappy. > > On Mon, Oct 25, 2010 at 2:54 AM, wrote: > >> http://mail.aol.com/32823-111/aol-1/en-us/Suite.aspx >> >> Sometime in the fall of 1821, the great Italian poet Giacomo Leopardi, >> then 23 years old, composed an ode for his beloved younger sister Paolina's >> upcoming wedding. As a later critic observed, the poem is more a dirge than >> a hymn in honor of the bride. Paolina probably knew better than to expect >> mindless cheer from her melancholy brother. She was well aware that Giacomo >> wouldn't be heading up the conga line at the wedding banquet. >> >> Still, she must have been taken aback by the brutal tactlessness of such >> lines as these, in Jonathan Galassi's new translation: >> >> The children that you'll have will >> either be >> cowards or unhappy. Let them >> be unhappy. >> >> You could easily conclude that the young Leopardi had precious little >> sense of occasion. But you might also conclude that this was a poet who >> cultivated a fierce regard for the truth, however harsh. On both counts >> you'd be right. >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > > > -- > Anny Ballardini > http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ > http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome > http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 > http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html > I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing > star! > Friedrich Nietzsche > > ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique > vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? > Giovenale > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing listNew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.eduhttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Mon Oct 25 13:20:54 2010 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2010 19:20:54 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] The Equalizer Message-ID: *The Equalizer 1.13* Henry Gould's *Lanthanum 4* * *The Equalizer is an occasional poetry series.* *Please forward this email and attachment to interested readers. Post this PDF to your blog or website. Be sure to include the names of contributors in your post.* ? Sign up for *The Equalizer: First Series* mailing list to receive sections as they're released throughout October 2010. Email theunrulyservant at gmail.com. Visit michaelschiavo.blogspot.com for more information, including updates & links to websites that will be hosting some or all of *The Equalizer* sections. Follow @Michael_Schiavoon Twitter to download sections too! ? If there's a poem in *The Equalizer* that you really love, please contact the poet and let him/her know. ? If you're a teacher, please consider using *The Equalizer* in the classroom to prompt discussion about contemporary poetry and/or publishing. ? If you're an independent bookstore, please consider making the *The Equalizer* available on your website to readers by uploading the PDFs, or via the following links: *The Equalizer 1.1* Summer Block, Jim Behrle, Macgregor Card, Mark Bibbins, Emily Anderson, Aaron Belz, Don Share, Cody Walker, Christopher Salerno, Amick Boone, Adam Clay, Buck Downs, Stephanie Anderson, Owen Barker, and CAConrad. (HTMLGiant and Maureen Thorson ) *The Equalizer 1.2* Matt Hart's "Write This Today While You Were." ( HTMLGiant and Maureen Thorson ) *The Equalizer 1.3* Joshua Corey, Stephanie Anderson, Buck Downs, Shanna Compton, Laura Carter, Peter Davis, Alana Dagen, Reb Livingston, Cody Walker, John Cotter, Craig Santos Perez, and Chris Martin. (HTMLGiant and Maureen Thorson ) *The Equalizer 1.4* A selection from John Gallaher's *Guidebooks*. ( HTMLGiant and Maureen Thorson ) *The Equalizer 1.5* Cynthia Cruz, Reb Livingston, Allison Gauss, Jill Alexander Essbaum, Cody Walker, Buck Downs, Barbara Cully, Peter Davis, Lucas Farrell, Stephanie Anderson, Noah Falck, Carol Fink, Corrine Fitzpatrick, Matt Hart, Maureen Thorson, Amy King, and Chris Martin. ( HTMLGiant and Maureen Thorson ) *The Equalizer 1.6* Lucas Farrell's "The Dual-Shade of Six-Prong." ( HTMLGiant and Maureen Thorson ) *The Equalizer 1.7* Whit Griffin, Shafer Hall, Stephanie Anderson, Brian Henry, Amy King, Richard Deming, Chris Martin, Buck Downs, Christopher Salerno, Jennifer Michael Hecht, Matthew Henriksen, Evan Kennedy, James Meetze, Matt Hart, Cody Walker, and Douglas Kearney. (HTMLGiantand Maureen Thorson ) *The Equalizer 1.8* Sonnets & sonnots from Nathan Austin, Jo Turner, Ernest Hilbert, Kevin Shea, Samantha Caan, Matt Hart, and Curtis Jensen. (HTMLGiantand Maureen Thorson ) *The Equalizer 1.9* Mike Hauser's *Samples*. (HTMLGiantand Maureen Thorson ) *The Equalizer 1.10* Mike Hauser, Buck Downs, Stephanie Anderson, Katherine Factor, Maureen Thorson, James Meetze, Mark Lamoureux, Katy Lederer, Alexis Orgera, Ada Lim?n, Kristi Maxwell, Cate Peebles, Richard Deming, Carmen Gim?nez Smith, Matt Hart, and Cody Walker. (HTMLGiantand Maureen Thorson ) *The Equalizer 1.11* Evie Shockley's "the cold" (HTMLGiantand Maureen Thorson ) *The Equalizer 1.12* Andrew Hughes, Chris Martin, Stephanie Anderson, Buck Downs, Jason Myers, Richard Deming, Morgan Lucas Schuldt, Carmen Gim?nez Smith, Cody Walker, Christopher Rizzo, Travis Macdonald, Matt Hart, Ravi Shankar, and James Meetze. (HTMLGiantand Maureen Thorson ) * *Oct. 27*: *The Equalizer 1.14* featuring Tony Tost, Maureen Thorson, Lytton Smith, Richard Deming, Cosmo Spinosa, James Meetze, Matt Cozart, Eric Unger, Janaka Stucky, Cody Walker, Katherine Factor, Matt Hart, Buck Downs, and Jim Behrle. -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tad at opus40.org Mon Oct 25 16:34:21 2010 From: tad at opus40.org (Tad Richards) Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2010 16:34:21 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Still new, forever new In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: A new book would be good. On Mon, Oct 25, 2010 at 11:02 AM, James Cervantes wrote: > Thanks folks. Time, outdated software, for everything there's a season > etc. Maybe something else sometime, maybe not. Maybe I will publish a new > book! > > - Jim > > > On Mon, Oct 25, 2010 at 12:52 AM, Anny Ballardini < > anny.ballardini at gmail.com> wrote: > >> With such goodies, how can you possibly think of saying Good Bye? >> No way you can rethink it? >> >> And congratulations for this incredible issue, Anny >> >> On Sun, Oct 24, 2010 at 6:30 PM, James Cervantes < >> cervantes.james at gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> *The Fall/Winter 2010 issue of The Salt River Review is online, with >>> Poetry by* Tad Richards, Laura Jensen, Hillary Hays, Skip Fox, Josepha >>> Gutelius, Liliana Ursu, Lynn Strongin, Millicent Borges Accardi, Keith Moul, >>> Nic Sebastian, Jeannine Savard, Sergio Ortiz, Liz Ahl, Anastasia Hager, >>> Sheila E. Murphy, John Morgan, Marcus Bales, Wendy Carlisle, Paulann >>> Petersen, Ed Harkness, Frances Ruhlen McConnel, Carlos Reyes, Greg Simon, & >>> Tess Gallagher. >>> >>> >>> *Fiction* by Kulpreet Yadav, Lori White, Donna D. Vitucci, Robert >>> Vaughan, Tim Tomlinson, Tessa Smith McGovern, Janis Einfelds, trans. Inara >>> Cedrins, John Danahy & Shirley Sullivan. >>> >>> >>> *Belles Lettres: Wherein prose poems, nonfiction, essays, and other >>> writings are found:* Skip Fox, John Yohe, Laura Jensen, Reamy Jansen, & >>> Greg Simon. >>> >>> >>> >>> And an *Afterword:* Greg Simon, Lynda Schor, James Cervantes. >>> >>> >>> http://www.poetserv.org >>> >>> >>> *This is the Farewell Issue!* >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> New-Poetry mailing list >>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>> >>> >> >> >> -- >> Anny Ballardini >> http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ >> http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome >> http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 >> http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html >> I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing >> star! >> Friedrich Nietzsche >> >> ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique >> vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? >> Giovenale >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > > > -- > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org > http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning > http://www.fieralingue.it/documenti/mr_bondo.pdf > http://www.poetserv.org/jvc/home/index.html > http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamescervantes/ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tomkostro at sprintmail.com Mon Oct 25 17:35:13 2010 From: tomkostro at sprintmail.com (Tom Kostro) Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2010 17:35:13 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] \digest form?: Poetry speed ... In-Reply-To: <167479.7501.qm@web83307.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: <167479.7501.qm@web83307.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Dear All, Is there a way to get this list in a digest form? I love the discussions but the posts one by one are overwhelming.... THank you! On Oct 24, 2010, at 6:33 PM, amy king wrote: > Our website speed, Esque, has dramatically improved!! > > http://www.esquemag.com/ > > > Enjoy, > > Amy > > > > ******** > Now That's WAC > + http://wearechampion.blogspot.com/2010/08/amy-king.html > > > Amy's Alias > + http://amyking.org/ > ******** > > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From tomkostro at sprintmail.com Mon Oct 25 17:51:59 2010 From: tomkostro at sprintmail.com (Tom Kostro) Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2010 17:51:59 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] from Patricia In-Reply-To: <8CD41F65B8FB5B6-17E0-17066@webmail-d080.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CD41F65B8FB5B6-17E0-17066@webmail-d080.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <7C020D45-75E7-4652-AFAC-028DDA5EB929@sprintmail.com> sorry to clutter your boxes with repeat and dummy questions but I went to website and saw that I must email jforjames to inquire about mail questions. Now I resubscribed to get list in digest form. Many of you scholars are friends from other lists ie Wompo and Formalista Poet and even, The Thomas Hardy Association but some of you as in jforjames are mystery guests! From tomkostro at sprintmail.com Mon Oct 25 18:27:42 2010 From: tomkostro at sprintmail.com (Tom Kostro) Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2010 18:27:42 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Still new, forever new In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <40151612-9106-4D20-842D-36801E82AD66@sprintmail.com> Dear Salt River PLEASE DON"T GO! I love the Hudson but your RIver really flows/flowed, fled. I saw Tess Gallagher and said oh yeah. Hadn't really heard enough since her Ray died. I had so swooned for Moon Crossing Bridge. Well a bittersweet visit to The Salt River Review I never knew and now wish so very much I had. It occurs to me that maybe some of the sweetness is the fact it formed and was fed west of the Hudson even west of BROOklyn even west of west of Queens even Hoboken Even the ROckies. In other words NOT NYC. I wish I had known. James, Lynda, Greg whoever is thinking remotely of continuing or giving a new start, I'd love to help. Patricia On Oct 25, 2010, at 5:44 AM, karen wrote: > Agreed....great stuff there. > > On Sun, Oct 24, 2010 at 11:52 PM, Anny Ballardini wrote: > With such goodies, how can you possibly think of saying Good Bye? > No way you can rethink it? > > An -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Mon Oct 25 20:48:17 2010 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2010 20:48:17 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Franco's next project Message-ID: <8CD42BE9D27C62F-14E4-3162@webmail-d012.sysops.aol.com> http://www.cinemablend.com/new/James-Franco-To-Direct-Film-About-Poet-Hart-Crane-21392.html James Franco is a serious contender for this year's Best Actor Oscar, but it now seems as though he's deciding to get more serious about directing. In the past month, the actor has purchased the rights to two books (The Adderall Diaries and Holy Land) and has already announced plans to direct the former. According to new reports, however, he has an entirely different project coming up next. Showbiz 411 reports that Franco has written a bio-pic about poet Hart Crane called The Broken Tower and plans to direct the project himself... -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Mon Oct 25 21:09:11 2010 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2010 21:09:11 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] fact -simile trading cards Message-ID: <8CD42C188AF66A1-14E4-3623@webmail-d012.sysops.aol.com> http://www.fact-simile.com/tradingcard.html Collect them all. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Tue Oct 26 03:16:25 2010 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2010 09:16:25 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] from Patricia In-Reply-To: <7C020D45-75E7-4652-AFAC-028DDA5EB929@sprintmail.com> References: <8CD41F65B8FB5B6-17E0-17066@webmail-d080.sysops.aol.com> <7C020D45-75E7-4652-AFAC-028DDA5EB929@sprintmail.com> Message-ID: Dear Patricia, I do not understand your question. I am also on Wompo, and I think Robin Hamilton is also on a Shakespeare list and were there a Milton or a Metaphysical poets list, I'd bet he would be there, too. Many are on many other lists as well. And mystery guests abound, sometimes known people who disguise under pseudonyms and fake different voices. I guess this is part of the un_glory of being. I have seen you here for some time, am I right? Anny On Mon, Oct 25, 2010 at 11:51 PM, Tom Kostro wrote: > sorry to clutter your boxes with repeat and dummy questions but I went to > website > and saw that I must email jforjames to inquire about mail questions. > > Now I resubscribed to get list in digest form. > > Many of you scholars are friends from other lists > ie Wompo and Formalista Poet and even, The Thomas Hardy Association > but some of you as in jforjames are mystery guests! > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Tue Oct 26 03:18:21 2010 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2010 09:18:21 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] fact -simile trading cards In-Reply-To: <8CD42C188AF66A1-14E4-3623@webmail-d012.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CD42C188AF66A1-14E4-3623@webmail-d012.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: I want one, I want one, one of Christian Boek, so that I have him in my purse, always, :-( On Tue, Oct 26, 2010 at 3:09 AM, wrote: > http://www.fact-simile.com/tradingcard.html > > Collect them all. > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Tue Oct 26 10:44:59 2010 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2010 16:44:59 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Eric Barnes Message-ID: Writing is the hardest work I have ever done. I?ve worked 60-hour weeks in marine construction, building docks and floats, cold, wet and tired in the rain. I?ve worked 80-hour weeks in fish processing plants in Alaska, where you work till you?re soaked and cold and covered in scales and slime. I went to a fancy college and a top graduate school where students competed, coldly, for the attention of professors. As a reporter I called the father of a girl killed in a car crash and asked him, ?How do you feel?? and in business I?ve pulled all nighters before presenting to venture capitalists who held the future of our company in their hands and I?ve walked into rooms of 20 people and told all of them, ?I?m sorry, go home, because I?m laying all of you off.? But writing is the hardest thing I?ve ever done. http://www.ericbarnes.net/blog/2009/06/04/124/ -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Tue Oct 26 20:21:32 2010 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2010 20:21:32 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] enamored of nouns Message-ID: <8CD43840AB7F678-1658-38CE@webmail-m087.sysops.aol.com> http://www.huffingtonpost.com/melissa-broder/grand-theft-poetics_b_771560.html I am a hoarder, a hoarder of nouns. Lately I've been pilfering nouns from 1970s fantasy novels. Words like zenith and demon, vortex and unicorn would likely never come on my radar otherwise. And they're dynamite words. They lend poems leap and tilt by getting me out of my conscious narrative and into the id. The subconscious is where the real creative alchemy occurs. When I write from the subconscious, I access a power deeper than my ego and put things on the page I didn't know I knew. It's a trippy, non-linear realm = -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jschickl at hotmail.com Wed Oct 27 11:12:38 2010 From: jschickl at hotmail.com (Jared Schickling) Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2010 09:12:38 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] mostly unimportant Message-ID: received some strange emails offlist -- i'm not orphee fer chrissakes -- hope that settles whatever -- jared -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From amyhappens at yahoo.com Wed Oct 27 13:11:39 2010 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king) Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2010 10:11:39 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] THIS FRIDAY @ Stain -- Drysdale, Lepson, Reid, Schiavo & Sharif! Message-ID: <348592.15703.qm@web83305.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> STAIN OF POETRY -- A READING SERIES ~ Carla Drysdale, Ruth Lepson, Rick Reid, Michael Schiavo, & Solmaz Sharif 7 PM on October 29 @ Goodbye Blue Monday? Bushwick, Brooklyn with Carla Drysdale was born in London, Ontario and was educated at Ryerson university in Toronto as well as Sarah Lawrence College in New York. Her poems have appeared in Canadian and US journals, including the Literary Review of Canada, Canadian Literature, the Fiddlehead, Global City Review, The Same and LIT. She has won several fellowships to the Virginia Center for the Creative Arts, where she collaborated with Pulitzer-prize winning composer David Del Tredici, who set her poem, ?New Year?s Eve? to music. She recently relocated from NYC to Geneva, Switzerland, where she works as a public radio journalist. Her first book of poems,Little Venus, is being published in October by Toronto?s Tightrope Books. ~ Ruth Lepson is poet-in-residence at the New England Conservatory of Music & has been collaborating with musicians in recent years & is also trying to write songs lately. She has 3 books of poetry, published by Alice James Books & blazeVOX, & she edited Poetry from Sojourner: A Feminist Anthology, pub by the University of Illinois. Her poems have been in Carve, Shampoo, EOAGH & lots of other mags. Recently she wrote an article about poets John Wieners & Gerrit Lansing for Jacket magazine. She used to organize poetry readings for Oxfam America and work on magazines. She lives in Cambridge. ~ Rick Reid is a writer and conceptual artist. His book to be hung from the ceiling by strings of varying length was put out by Akashic books. ~ Michael Schiavo?s poetry has appeared in can we have our ball back?, Forklift, Ohio, LIT, Fou, Sixth Finch, La Petite Zine, The Hat, The Awl, CUE, and The Normal School. He lives in Vermont and blogs occasionally at The Unruly Servant. ~ Born in Istanbul to Iranian parents, Solmaz Sharif holds a BA in Sociology and Women of Color Writers from U.C. Berkeley and an MFA in poetry from New York University. Her work has appeared or is forthcoming injubilat, Diagram, Witness, and PBS?s Tehran Bureau. Between 2002-2006, Sharif studied and taught with June Jordan?s Poetry for the People. She is the managing director of The Asian American Writers? Workshop. ~ at Goodbye Blue Monday 1087 Broadway (corner of Dodworth St) Brooklyn, NY 11221-3013 (718) 453-6343 J M Z trains to Myrtle Ave or J train to Kosciusko St ~ Hosted by Steven Karl, Erika Moya & Christie Ann Reynolds http://stainofpoetry.com/ ~ ******** Now That's WAC + http://wearechampion.blogspot.com/2010/08/amy-king.html Amy's Alias + http://amyking.org/ ******** From hmercedes at gm.slc.edu Wed Oct 27 17:05:17 2010 From: hmercedes at gm.slc.edu (Helen Mercedes) Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2010 17:05:17 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] THIS FRIDAY @ Stain -- Drysdale, Lepson, Reid, Schiavo & Sharif! In-Reply-To: <348592.15703.qm@web83305.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: <348592.15703.qm@web83305.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Unsubscribe!! On Wed, Oct 27, 2010 at 1:11 PM, amy king wrote: > STAIN OF POETRY -- A READING SERIES > > > ~ Carla Drysdale, Ruth Lepson, Rick Reid, Michael Schiavo, & Solmaz > Sharif > > 7 PM on October 29 @ Goodbye Blue Monday? Bushwick, Brooklyn > > with > > Carla Drysdale was born in London, Ontario and was educated at Ryerson > university in Toronto as well as Sarah Lawrence College in New York. Her > poems > have appeared in Canadian and US journals, including the Literary Review > of > Canada, Canadian Literature, the Fiddlehead, Global City Review, The Same > and > LIT. She has won several fellowships to the Virginia Center for the > Creative > Arts, where she collaborated with Pulitzer-prize winning composer David Del > Tredici, who set her poem, ?New Year?s Eve? to music. She recently > relocated > from NYC to Geneva, Switzerland, where she works as a public radio > journalist. > Her first book of poems,Little Venus, is being published in October by > Toronto?s > > Tightrope Books. > > ~ > > Ruth Lepson is poet-in-residence at the New England Conservatory of Music & > has > been collaborating with musicians in recent years & is also trying to write > songs lately. She has 3 books of poetry, published by Alice James Books & > blazeVOX, & she edited Poetry from Sojourner: A Feminist Anthology, pub by > the > University of Illinois. Her poems have been in Carve, Shampoo, EOAGH & lots > of > other mags. Recently she wrote an article about poets John Wieners & Gerrit > Lansing for Jacket magazine. She used to organize poetry readings for Oxfam > America and work on magazines. She lives in Cambridge. > > ~ > > Rick Reid is a writer and conceptual artist. His book to be hung from the > ceiling by strings of varying length was put out by Akashic books. > > ~ > > Michael Schiavo?s poetry has appeared in can we have our ball back?, > Forklift, > Ohio, LIT, Fou, Sixth Finch, La Petite Zine, The Hat, The Awl, CUE, and > The > Normal School. He lives in Vermont and blogs occasionally at The Unruly > Servant. > > > ~ > > Born in Istanbul to Iranian parents, Solmaz Sharif holds a BA in Sociology > and > Women of Color Writers from U.C. Berkeley and an MFA in poetry from New > York > University. Her work has appeared or is forthcoming injubilat, Diagram, > Witness, and PBS?s Tehran Bureau. Between 2002-2006, Sharif studied and > taught > with June Jordan?s Poetry for the People. She is the managing director of > The > Asian American Writers? Workshop. > > ~ > > at > > Goodbye Blue Monday > 1087 Broadway > (corner of Dodworth St) > Brooklyn, NY 11221-3013 > (718) 453-6343 > > J M Z trains to Myrtle Ave > or J train to Kosciusko St > > ~ > > Hosted by Steven Karl, Erika Moya & Christie Ann Reynolds > > http://stainofpoetry.com/ > > > ~ > > > > ******** > Now That's WAC > + http://wearechampion.blogspot.com/2010/08/amy-king.html > > > Amy's Alias > + http://amyking.org/ > ******** > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tad at opus40.org Wed Oct 27 18:37:52 2010 From: tad at opus40.org (Tad Richards) Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2010 18:37:52 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Toot Message-ID: I'll be on the radio tomorrow, discussing my novel/audio play Nick & Jake. That's tomorrow as in Thursday, Oct 28, at 8 am Mountain Time, which translates to 10 am on the east coast and 7 am on the west coast. Santa Fe public radio KSFR-FM. The show is the Santa Fe Radio Cafe, with Mary-Charlotte. It'll be streamed live at http://www.publicbroadcasting.net/ksfr/ppr/index.shtml -- it'll also be put up on their podcast site. Then on Saturday, we'll be doing a reading in Santa Fe at the Collected Works bookstore, featuring Alan Arkin and Ali MacGraw, two of the stars of the audio version. More info at www.nickandjake.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From millb at aol.com Wed Oct 27 22:29:36 2010 From: millb at aol.com (Millicent) Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2010 22:29:36 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Toot In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8CD445F191B7020-EDC-3E8A@webmail-d030.sysops.aol.com> YOU ROCK! Congrats! Millicent -----Original Message----- From: Tad Richards To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &,Views Sent: Wed, Oct 27, 2010 3:37 pm Subject: [New-Poetry] Toot I'll be on the radio tomorrow, discussing my novel/audio play Nick & Jake. That's tomorrow as in Thursday, Oct 28, at 8 am Mountain Time, which translates to 10 am on the east coast and 7 am on the west coast. Santa Fe public radio KSFR-FM. The show is the Santa Fe Radio Cafe, with Mary-Charlotte. It'll be streamed live at http://www.publicbroadcasting.net/ksfr/ppr/index.shtml -- it'll also be put up on their podcast site. Then on Saturday, we'll be doing a reading in Santa Fe at the Collected Works bookstore, featuring Alan Arkin and Ali MacGraw, two of the stars of the audio version. More info at www.nickandjake.com _______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Thu Oct 28 14:17:12 2010 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2010 20:17:12 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] THIS FRIDAY @ Stain -- Drysdale, Lepson, Reid, Schiavo & Sharif! In-Reply-To: References: <348592.15703.qm@web83305.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Dear Helen Mrcedes, you can easily unsubscribe by going to the link by which you subscribed. Here: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry On Wed, Oct 27, 2010 at 11:05 PM, Helen Mercedes wrote: > Unsubscribe!! > > On Wed, Oct 27, 2010 at 1:11 PM, amy king wrote: > >> STAIN OF POETRY -- A READING SERIES >> >> >> ~ Carla Drysdale, Ruth Lepson, Rick Reid, Michael Schiavo, & Solmaz >> Sharif >> >> 7 PM on October 29 @ Goodbye Blue Monday? Bushwick, Brooklyn >> >> with >> >> Carla Drysdale was born in London, Ontario and was educated at Ryerson >> university in Toronto as well as Sarah Lawrence College in New York. Her >> poems >> have appeared in Canadian and US journals, including the Literary Review >> of >> Canada, Canadian Literature, the Fiddlehead, Global City Review, The Same >> and >> LIT. She has won several fellowships to the Virginia Center for the >> Creative >> Arts, where she collaborated with Pulitzer-prize winning composer David >> Del >> Tredici, who set her poem, ?New Year?s Eve? to music. She recently >> relocated >> from NYC to Geneva, Switzerland, where she works as a public radio >> journalist. >> Her first book of poems,Little Venus, is being published in October by >> Toronto?s >> >> Tightrope Books. >> >> ~ >> >> Ruth Lepson is poet-in-residence at the New England Conservatory of Music >> & has >> been collaborating with musicians in recent years & is also trying to >> write >> songs lately. She has 3 books of poetry, published by Alice James Books & >> blazeVOX, & she edited Poetry from Sojourner: A Feminist Anthology, pub by >> the >> University of Illinois. Her poems have been in Carve, Shampoo, EOAGH & >> lots of >> other mags. Recently she wrote an article about poets John Wieners & >> Gerrit >> Lansing for Jacket magazine. She used to organize poetry readings for >> Oxfam >> America and work on magazines. She lives in Cambridge. >> >> ~ >> >> Rick Reid is a writer and conceptual artist. His book to be hung from the >> ceiling by strings of varying length was put out by Akashic books. >> >> ~ >> >> Michael Schiavo?s poetry has appeared in can we have our ball back?, >> Forklift, >> Ohio, LIT, Fou, Sixth Finch, La Petite Zine, The Hat, The Awl, CUE, and >> The >> Normal School. He lives in Vermont and blogs occasionally at The Unruly >> Servant. >> >> >> ~ >> >> Born in Istanbul to Iranian parents, Solmaz Sharif holds a BA in Sociology >> and >> Women of Color Writers from U.C. Berkeley and an MFA in poetry from New >> York >> University. Her work has appeared or is forthcoming injubilat, Diagram, >> Witness, and PBS?s Tehran Bureau. Between 2002-2006, Sharif studied and >> taught >> with June Jordan?s Poetry for the People. She is the managing director of >> The >> Asian American Writers? Workshop. >> >> ~ >> >> at >> >> Goodbye Blue Monday >> 1087 Broadway >> (corner of Dodworth St) >> Brooklyn, NY 11221-3013 >> (718) 453-6343 >> >> J M Z trains to Myrtle Ave >> or J train to Kosciusko St >> >> ~ >> >> Hosted by Steven Karl, Erika Moya & Christie Ann Reynolds >> >> http://stainofpoetry.com/ >> >> >> ~ >> >> >> >> ******** >> Now That's WAC >> + http://wearechampion.blogspot.com/2010/08/amy-king.html >> >> >> Amy's Alias >> + http://amyking.org/ >> ******** >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Thu Oct 28 16:28:34 2010 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2010 22:28:34 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Press Release: The AfterMode. Significant Choices in Contemporary British Fiction, by LIDIA VIANU - Bucharest University Press In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: * * *Press Release * Bucharest, 27 October 2010 * * *Bucharest University Press** *announces the the publication of *The AfterMode. Significant Choices in Contemporary British Fiction**, by LIDIA VIANU. * * * The volume includes an *outline of recent changes in Contemporary British Fiction*, illustrated with essays on *Peter Ackroyd, Martin Amis, Julian Barnes, Malcolm Bradbury, A.S. Byatt, Angela Carter, Tracy Chevalier, Jonathan Coe, Helen Fielding, Laura Hird, Kazuo Ishiguro, Hanif Kureishi, Doris Lessing, David Lodge, Ian Mc Ewan, Timothy Mo, Salman Rushdie, Graham Swift, Rose Tremain, Jeanette Winterson.* The book can be ordered at derex_com at yahoo.com At the same address two more books by LIDA VIANU can be ordered: *Desperado Poetry ? A Selection of Contemporary British Verse*. *Alan Brownjohn and the Desperado Age.* *LIDIA VIANU can be contacted at* lidiavianu at yahoo.com ends -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Thu Oct 28 19:23:46 2010 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2010 19:23:46 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poets Forum this weekend in NYC Message-ID: <8CD450E4D807DB6-14EC-2164@webmail-d073.sysops.aol.com> http://www.poets.org/page.php/prmID/380 [With photo of Frank Bidart in which he is about to be attacked by his own hand. A stunned Sharon Olds looks on.] Anne Carson Ron Padgett Victor Hern?ndez Cruz Marie Ponsot Marilyn Hacker Carl Phillips Lyn Hejinian Robert Pinsky Edward Hirsch Kay hRyan Galway Kinnell Gerald Stern Khaled Mattawa Susan Stewart Naomi Shihab Nye C.K. Williams Sharon Olds Other participants include: Kazim Ali John Koethe Carl Adamshick Ada Lim?n Jericho Brown Dawn Lundy Martin Julie Carr Meghan O'Rourke Tina Chang Prageeta Sharma Jordan Davis Paolo Valesio Olena Kalytiak Davis Paul Vangelisti Edith Grossman Mark Wunderlich Stephen Kessler John Yau Wayne Koestenbaum -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Mon Oct 25 13:27:15 2010 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2010 19:27:15 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Attached Message-ID: Henry Gould's Lanthanum, ch. 4. -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: The Equalizer 1 13.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 555061 bytes Desc: not available URL: From c.a.b.daly at gmail.com Thu Oct 28 12:12:28 2010 From: c.a.b.daly at gmail.com (Catherine Daly) Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2010 09:12:28 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] LA: LMU's Bellarmine Forum on Feminist Art & Activism continues In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thursday, October 28 * 9.25-10.40am | Ahmanson 1000* Women Who Teach Art for Social Change Four Los Angeles women discuss how they use the knowledge and expertise of their art to change the lives of kids and, in turn, take steps to transform society. Professor Chuck Rosenthal, Department of English, chair Panelists: Sherry Jason began studying ballet at the age of 4, and at the age of 11 she began teaching ballet to neighborhood children for fifty cents a class in her parent?s garage. Even then, it was her firm belief that classes in the Arts should be provided free for those children whose parents could not afford to pay. Ms. Jason performed as a soloist with Ballet Concerto and has continued her teaching for over 50 years. Graduating from UCLA with a BA in Psychology, she received her Juris Doctor from Southwestern University School of Law. In l975, Ms. Jason was sworn in as a member of the State Bar of California in private ceremonies by the Honorable Consuelo Marshall (now a member of the Federal Bench). Ms. Jason joined the Los Angeles County Public Defender's Office Juvenile Division in l977. It was there that she met her husband and partner of 33 years, Bob Jason. Describing herself as an "Attorney at Law/Ballerina at Heart," Sherry and Bob Jason created Ballet for Topanga in l979, and together produce The Topanga Nutcracker Ballet now in its 30th season. Through their experiences in the Juvenile Justice System, Sherry and Bob formulated a philosophy on the nature of delinquency, intervention and prevention. In l983, the Jasons used all their savings and borrowed from friends and family to create the Downtown Dance Studio/L.A. Fringe Theatre to be the artistic home to our community?s most impoverished children. City Hearts was created in l984 to provide FREE classes to Skid Row, inner city, and at-greatest-risk children. Now celebrating 25 years, City Hearts has provided quality Arts education to over 27,000 children. As an advocate and instructor in the Arts arena for over 46 years, and as an attorney and defender of children's rights for over 30 years, Sherry Jason is uniquely qualified to create, direct and implement City Hearts' innovative programs of prevention. Utilizing her extensive dance background, Ms. Jason choreographed a segment on Jane Seymour's "Medicine Woman" TV series and has been interviewed regarding City Hearts' award-winning programs by NBC Nightly News and featured on CBS, CNN and other local and international news programs including Oprah. City Hearts has been named to the President's Committee on the Arts & Humanities and been honored by the Sesame Street Parents Magazine and the Children's Television Network as an inaugural recipient of the "Sunny Days Award." In 2008, Ms. Jason helped to write the Standards/Foundations for Dance Education for 3/4 Year Olds for the California Department of Education. Keren Taylor, founder and Executive Director of WriteGirl, has been active as a community leader for more than 15 years. She has edited and designed dozens of anthologies and has served as publisher and editor of all of WriteGirl's award-winning books. Passionate about helping women and girls, Keren has conducted hundreds of creative writing workshops for youth and adults, and has led staff development workshops for the California Paraeducators Conference, California School-age Consortium, California Department of Education, Los Angeles County Office of Education, LA's BEST and the New York Partnership for After School Education, among others. Keren has been selected to serve as a Community Champion and facilitator for the Annenberg Alchemy Program and is a popular speaker at conferences and book festivals nationwide including the Association of Writing Programs (AWP) Annual Conference, BOOST Conference, Los Angeles Times Festival of Books and Guiding Lights Festival. Keren is the recipient of numerous awards and accolades, including the President's Volunteer Call to Service Award, Business & Professional Women's Community Woman of Achievement Award, Soroptomist International's Woman of Distinction Award, commendations from Los Angeles Mayor Antonio Villaraigosa and others. Erin Cottrell is an award winning actress best known for her performance in Michael Landon Jr.'s, Love Comes Softly series as well as being the new Caroline Ingalls in Disney/ABC's Little House on the Prairie. She has had an extensive career in film and television including guest lead appearances on E.R., CSI:NY, Cold Case, Medium, NUMB3RS, Ed, and Stranger's With Candy, as well as reoccurring characters on All My Children and The Guiding Light. Her film credits include Legally Blonde 2, Love's Abiding Joy and Faith of My Father's, (the film based on John McCain's biography.) Most recently she was seen alongside Jason Alexander and Christopher Lloyd in the NBC mini-series, METEOR. When Erin is not filming she is teaching. Since 2002 she has been a proud teacher for the nonprofit organization, City Hearts: Kids Say Yes to the Arts. She has taught jazz, hip hop, musical theatre, Shakespeare, black and white photography and acting to the at risk youth of East LA and Oxnard, bringing the arts into vastly under-funded areas. Her love of teaching underprivileged youth stems from her work in London at the Young Vic Theatre, where she was a performance intern. There she had the opportunity to run a summer program with at risk high school students to create dramatic pieces about their lives in the city. She feels fortunate to be able to be directly involved in the lives of her students and to offer them a new kind of self-expression and sense of confidence that they would otherwise not be exposed to. The children that she has had the opportunity to work with have deeply touched her life and improved her understanding of the power of the arts more than she could have imagined. Erin is also a member of The New Hollywood, an elite group of female performers focused on supporting women in the arts. Each year they raise and donate thousands of dollars to charities throughout the world supporting children in need and arts education. Einat Metzl... *1.35-3 pm | Ahmanson 1000* Student You-tube Competition Short digital films made by LMU students on the theme of "Imagining Equality" will be screened and prizes given. Sponsored by the Office of Student Affairs. *4-5 pm | Marymount Institute UH 3000* Afternoon Tea: Women in Theater A panel and conversation with Pulitzer Prize winning playwright Beth Henley; Ellen Geer, artistic director of the Theatricum Botanicum; Amy Madigan, actor; Velina Houston, playwright. Panelists: Beth Henley is an American dramatist and actress. She received the Pulitzer Prize for Drama in 1981 for her play, Crimes of the Heart (1978). Velina Hasu Houston has written over thirty plays, including fifteen commissions, internationally produced at Manhattan Theatre Club, the Old Globe Theatre, George Street Playhouse, Pittsburgh Public Theatre, Negro Ensemble Company, Smithsonian Institution, Whole Theatre (Olympia Dukakis, producer), Syracuse Stage, Odyssey Theatre Ensemble, and others including in People's Republic of China, Japan, Singapore, and Malaysia. She has been awarded fellowships from Japan Foundation, Rockefeller Foundation (twice), California Arts Council, and The Sidney F. Brody Foundation; as well as being honored by Sidney Poitier and American Film Institute and the Pinter Review Prize for Drama. Current projects include The DNA Trail, Silk Road Theatre Project in association with the Goodman Theatre; the world premiere of Calligraphy, Playwrights' Arena at LATC, November 2010; and the Japan premiere of Calling Aphrodite August 2011. Houston is Associate Dean of Faculty, Professor of Theatre, Resident Playwright, and creator and Director of the Master of Fine Arts in Dramatic Writing, University of Southern California School of Theatre. Amy Madigan *7.30-8.30 pm | Ahmanson 1000* Keynote address and reading by Carolyn Forche Poet, winner of the Yale Younger Poets Prize, a Guggenheim Fellowship and a Lamont Award, Forche was a journalist for Amnesty International in El Salvador and served as Beirut correspondent for NPR's "All Things Considered." Her books include Gathering the Tribe, The Country Between Us, The Angel of History, and Against Forgetting: Twentieth Century Poetry of Witness. Forche will be introduced by Celeste Fremon, an award winning freelance journalist, and the author of G-Dog and the Homeboys and the upcoming, An American Family. She is the creator and editor of WitnessLA.com, a Senior Fellow for Social Justice/New Media at the Institute for Justice and Journalism, an adjunct professor at the USC Annenberg School of Journalism, and a Visiting Lecturer at UC Irvine where she teaches literary journalism as it relates to social justice. Friday, October 29 *10-11.50 am | Ahmanson 1000* Lifting Oppression as We Climb: Black Women Artists and Activism Scholars who specialize in African cultures and history will discuss ways in which African women have used art to instigate social change. Professor Cassandra Veney, Department of Political Science, chair Panelists: "Women Saving the World: One Reality at a Time" Sherry Simpson-Dean is the executive director of the United Nations Pasadena/Foothills as well as a producer committed to civil liberties and human rights. Her latest film, Amandla!: A Revolution in Four-Part Harmony, earned high esteem at Robert Redford's Sundance Film Festival achieving the dual distinction of the Audience Award and the Freedom of Expression Award in 2002. "Dressed UP" Marcia Kure, Nigerian painter, graduated with a B.A from the University of Nigeria, Nsukka in 1994. Kure has attended art residency programs in Germany and the United States and has participated in many solo and group exhibitions. Kure's art was included in the Multichoice Africa "African Artists of the Future" calendar in 2002, and a body of her work depicting each year of Nigerian singer Fela's life was included in last year's Fela Project at the New Museum of Contemporary Art, New York. Nkiru Nzegwu, artist curator, and poet, is the current Chair of Africana Studies at Binghamton University. Dr. Nzegwu has introduced unique courses at Binghamton University such as Philosophy of Orisha Worship and Hip-Hop I and II. Among Dr. Nzegwu's areas of expertise are African aesthetics, philosophy, African feminist issues, and multicultural studies in art. *1-2.50 pm | Ahmanson 1000* Women in Hip Hop Panel Evelyn McDonnell, chair Panelists: Angie Colette Beatty, a vegan/feminist/scholar/activist and social entrepreneur, has facilitated media literacy education and writing workshops at national conferences and youth facilities for more than a decade. She holds a BS in Psychology from Delaware State University (1997), and attained her PhD in Communication from the University of Michigan in 2005. Angie received both a Kramarae Outstanding Dissertation Award from the Organization for the Study of Communication, Language & Gender and Foote Distinguished Dissertation Award from the Department of Communication Studies at the University of Michigan in 2006 for her work on power and Black women and girls' aggression in hip hop culture, and her work, "What Is This Gangstressism in Popular Culture?" appears in the anthology Next Wave Cultures: Feminism, Subcultures, Activism by Anita Harris (2008). The (SIS)TEM is a collective of female emcees, producers, vocalist, and Djs, co-founded by Aceyalone and DVS 1, from the legendary Project Blowed in Los Angeles. DVS 1 created and hosted a hip hop show respectively named, "Female Perspective." Being a female emcee she saw that on the main stream, as well as the underground, women weren't getting their just due. She decided to organize an event show-ing off the ladies' talent. By the time she reached the second one the roster for performers doubled. This prompted the idea to create an album of all female emcees because apparently there was an untouched fan base out there for it. "We never knew there were so many hungry, motivated driven women all on the same grind". You can call it "the female Wu-Tang". The (SIS)TEM is about 7 Core Members (all solo artists) and a host of about 15-20 affiliates, all coming together to push one goal; For women to gain the respect they deserve on the mic. The (SIS)TEM came about during a time when Hip Hop is starving for feminine energy. These women are definitely filling the void with quality music. *4-5 pm | University Hall East Atrium* "Dust of Gold" - Performance by Elia Arce Elia Arce is an internationally known Costa Rican artist and cultural activist who works in a wide variety of media, including performance, experimental theater, film/video, spoken word and installation. Hosted by Ruben Martinez, Fletcher Jones Chair of Literature and Writing "Dust of Gold" is an interactive installation project for Bellarmine Forum 2010 at Loyola Marymount University based on the "Alfombras de Aserr?n" or street carpets of sawdust made for Easter in Guatemala, a tradition with roots solidly in Mayan culture dating back to long before the Spanish arrived. The colorful and fragrant use of carpets of pine needles, flowers and other natural elements has its beginnings in the Mayan custom of creating pathways for kings and priests to walk upon when entering ceremonial locations and for use in sacred spaces. A ritual performance art piece honoring the Tongva ("people of the earth") tribes that inhabited this region before the arrival of the Europeans, will take place the last evening of the forum. I am already consulting with Tongva leaders in order to make sure I am respectful of their ways. "Dust of Gold" is the result of the fusion of traditional and contemporary art forms. This carpet welcomes the Golden Era, which starts at the end of the Mayan calendar in Dec. 2012. And symbolically envisions the coming together of the Mayan and Aztec nations for the future of the cosmos. The design that I have created is based on the Mayan calendar round made up of two cycles and the number 0. The outer ring represents 18 months of 20 days each and 1 month of 5 days, which equals 365 days. The inner golden ring represents 13 numbers that repeat themselves endlessly within a 20-day cycle, represented here by the outer golden ring. And the image at the center is the Mayan symbol for the number 0, which represents the "navel of the world" from where the sacred tree springs: the beginning of all things. This is where the final performance will most likely take place. Reception 5-7 pm *5-7 pm | Thomas P. Kelly, Jr Student Art Gallery* "The Purpose of Being" - Opening Reception for the LA artists/activists and LMU collaborators Curator Ronald Lopez from the 18th Street Arts Center and LMU Faculty Liaisons Jane Brucker and SaeRi Cho Dobson The exhibition participants for The Purpose of Being at Loyola Marymount University include: Selected LMU students led by Amitis Motevalli, Arzu Arda Kosar, Elana Mann + Vera Brunner-Sung, Jane Brucker, Kristin Ross Lauterbach + Christina Lee Storm, Ofunne Obiamiwe and SaeRi Cho Dobson. The Purpose of Being, which will run simultaneously with Harmony Reverberates Optimism (HRO). The HRO exhibit will be held at Jaus Gallery (1943 S. Westgate Ave., Los Angeles, CA 90025). Each exhibit focuses on women and their efforts to create social change through their art form. Both exhibits exercise social criticism at its highest form through, not only aesthetically pleasing work, but art that provokes dialogue and pushes boundaries; art that is active and penetrates society in such a way that it promotes itself fiercely and unapologetically. Artists involved push the limits and blur the line between activist and artist. The two exhibits will coexist as a dialogue with one another. Harmony Reverberates Optimism was originally exhibited at McNish Gallery, Oxnard College and now becomes the precursor to its evolved counter part and "action" show, The Purpose of Being. The original exhibit will be shown in its entirety at Jaus gallery. The intention of The Purpose of Being takes the ideas from the Harmony show a step further as it becomes the "action" of Optimism. Each artist will "activate" selected students from Loyola Marymount University and collaborate on new social interventions that will lead to new discussions and art works exhibited during the Bellarmine Forum. *6 pm | Laband Art Gallery* Kim Abeles: Art and Activism Artist's Gallery Walkthrough; Kim Abeles LA artist Kim Abeles mines the urban environment with a great sense of curiosity. She incorporates both conventional and unorthodox media-from using smog particles to quilting with trash-to explore broad social topics. In her own artistic practice and community collaborations, she uses metaphors and humor to bring our attention to crucial issues such as pollution, gender roles, civil rights, and even traffic. Abeles was born in Richmond Heights, Missouri in 1952. She received her BFA from Ohio University and her MFA from University of California, Irvine. The Smog Collector series brought her work to national and international attention in the art world, and mainstream sources such as Newsweek, National Public Radio, CBS Evening News, and The Wall Street Journal. She continues to exhibit internationally, including recent projects in Vietnam, Thailand, Czech Republic, England, and China. She represented the U.S. in both the Fotografie Biennale Rotterdam and the Cultural Centre of Berchem in Antwerp. Reception 5-7 pm | Dunning Courtyard *7.30-8.30 pm | Murphy Recital Hall* Video installation and performances curated by Ellina Kevorkian Ellina Kevorkian MFA, Claremont Graduate University. Kevorkian has had solo exhibitions in Los Angeles with the Mark Moore Gallery and Western Project. In 2007 Kevorkian was included in the Southern California Council of the National Museum of Women in the Arts-sponsored retrospective Multiple Vantage Points: Southern California Women Artists, 1980-2006. More recently, she was included in Girly Show: Pin-ups, Zines & the So-Called Third Wave and the forthcoming Separation Anxiety, both at the Wignall Museum of Contemporary Art. Her Black Lace Project can be seen at the Central Utah Art Center (CUAC) in fall 2010. Curatorial projects include Violet Against Women: Confronting Notions of the Feminine, an evening of performance art and video at Loyola Marymount College and re-: (un)historical documents, a group exhibition at the Guggenheim Gallery at Chapman College. *ON THURSDAY, OCTOBER 28, T H E T H I R D A R E A PRESENTS* * * *Deborah Bogen, Katherine Hastings & Keetje Kuipers * PLEASE NOTE TIME & PLACE: THIS PERFORMANCE WILL BE HELD AT 6:00 P.M. IN LOYOLA MARYMOUNT UNIVERSITY?s MARYMOUNT INSTITUTE ON THE THIRD FLOOR OF UNIVERSITY HALL (See below for a link to a map of campus). And you may want to make an extended night of it?immediately after our reading, at 7:30 p.m., stick around to see Carolyn Forche deliver her keynote address and reading for LMU?s annual Bellarmine Forum, which focuses this year on Women?s Art and Activism. *Deborah Bogen?s* three prize-winning works are *Let Me Open You a Swan*(Elixir Press Antivenom Prize 2009), *Landscape With Silos* (Texas Review Press XJ Kennedy Poetry Prize 2006) and *Living By the Children?s Cemetery* (ByLine Press Chapbook Prize 2002.) Her poems and reviews appear in such spots as *Ploughshares, The Iowa Review, The Gettysburg Review*, *Crazyhorse, The* *Georgia Review, New Letters*, *Poetry Daily* and *Verse Daily*. Her poem ?Driving Home Trying Not to Change the Station? was chosen by Patricia Smith as one of the twenty ?Best of Net? for 2010. ** *Katherine Hastings* is the author of *Updraft* (Finishing Line Press 2010); *Fog and Light* (forthcoming from Ahadada Press); and *Sidhe* (dPress 2006). Her poems have been published widely in journals and anthologies, including *The Comstock Review*; *Rattle*; *CALYX*; *Parthenon West Review; Golden Handcuffs Review *and others. She hosts *WordTemple* on Santa Rosa, CA's NPR affiliate, KRCB FM, and is curator of the WordTemple Poetry Series in Sonoma County (more info at www.wordtemple.com.) ** *Northwest native **Keetje Kuipers** spent* seven months of solitude in Oregon's Rogue River Valley, as the Margery Davis Boyden Wilderness Writing Resident , to complete work on *Beautiful in the Mouth *(BOA 2010), which was awarded the 2009 A. Poulin, Jr. Poetry Prize. Look for these poems in *Prairie Schooner, West Branch , Willow Springs, *and*AGNI, *or listen to her read her work?nominated four years in a row for a Pushcart?at the online audio archive From theFishouse. Keetje has taught writing at the University of Montana and is currently a Wallace Stegner Fellow at Stanford. Doors open 5:45 p.m. / Reading begins at 6:00 p.m. $5 donation recommended. Come early for canap?s and assorted beverages. Location: Marymount Institute for Faith, Culture, and the Arts University Hall, 3rd Floor 1 LMU Drive Loyola Marymount University Los Angeles, CA 90045-2659 Phone: 310.338.4570 www.lmu.edu/libraries_research/marymountinstitute.htm Parking is available on the lower levels of University Hall. It is the first building on your right when you drive into the gate. You can download a map here: http://www.lmu.edu/resources/Campus_Maps.htm and it?s wise to allow about 20 minutes for parking, etc. On Thursday, November 18, back at Frank Pictures Gallery: Mark Irwin, Judith Hall, Vanessa Place and Barry Schwabsky. That night, doors will again open at 7:15 (come for nibbles, vino!) and the reading will begin at 8:00 p.m. Thanks to Gail Wronsky and Theresia de Vroom for so graciously offering the institute for this reading. It promises to be an amazing night, all in all!! For a taste of the series, see our feature on www.poetry.la Continuing affection and warm thanks to Pharmaka, now closed, for mounting this poetry reading series, and to Laurie Frank, for so graciously inviting us to continue . . . -- -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From by.tjmst at gmail.com Thu Oct 28 21:02:24 2010 From: by.tjmst at gmail.com (BY TJMST) Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2010 18:02:24 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: from Patricia -FEEDBACK FROM BY.TJMST I HOPE THE LIST HASN'T ELOPED Message-ID: i also wonder what happened to the regular bumper format post of NEW POETRY DIGEST TO THE REGULAR LIST...i should used to think thatvthe grant that funded it is n't dependent on the economy since the galaxy of generous contributors and their steadily devoted audience fervently waiting for their daily menu poetically know the list is ever buoyant.i really missed the digest since my laptop loss to miscreants ROTARIAN GBEMI TIJANI MST ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Tom Kostro Date: Mon, Oct 25, 2010 at 2:51 PM Subject: [New-Poetry] from Patricia To: NewPoetry List sorry to clutter your boxes with repeat and dummy questions but I went to website and saw that I must email jforjames to inquire about mail questions. Now I resubscribed to get list in digest form. Many of you scholars are friends from other lists ie Wompo and Formalista Poet and even, The Thomas Hardy Association but some of you as in jforjames are mystery guests! _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From by.tjmst at gmail.com Thu Oct 28 22:52:43 2010 From: by.tjmst at gmail.com (BY TJMST) Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2010 19:52:43 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] from Patricia -FEEDBACK FROM BY.TJMST I HOPE THE LIST HASN'T ELOPED In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: With infernal modesty -how can i regain the formal post featuring the many marvelous *TODAY'S TOPICS AS MESSAGES LISTE*D in avalanche -yet characteristically literally rich -the harvest being from not only poets and writers,*classicists published or reviewd post -humously but also a well informed polylogue among the real artists,practising poets,writers -to writers musing in harmless,artistically wealthy debate for posterity....Usually though i - with an eye for civic concern and defender of the the social role of typical writer*s and artists with concsience generally indulge ,albeit not in delirium to watch the still impeccable terraine of the battle of the enormously fantastic poets -especially the regular contributors including JFORJAMES,ANNY BALLADIN,DAVID GRAM,BOB GRUMANand recently AMY KING has joined with her own gorgeous poetry that unashamely provoke or catalyse libido politics or palpable splendour of feminity beyond the reproductive realities the supreme poet -creator endowed them Tacitly of course most poets and writers alike don't actually cconfess and therefore copiuosly write away partly for fear of being labelled an eccentric and surely because it might be too mind boggling to read such stuff if it's not skillfully done.I m sure the fervent readers globally is missing this aspect of writing from the raw auto - biograpical material* as a daily reality of unharvested or masturbated literature. *i m optimising that the internet era will steadily annul this agraphia conditions in writing as well as in poetry....noting that individual meditations,poeticsand drama sketches that might otherwise serve as a primer or modest counsel for ethical living be divulged via blogspots,websites and podcasts ,You Tube facebook ,twitter,Peace network develped by Craig Zelizer, google,yyahoo,hotmail,justice,viviti,wordpress et cetera to name a few widely popular paths of the cyberspace....I also know that the writing revolution is one of the endeavours of humans across the ages that will not die except with the death of time itself-or as Christ believers would say as long as The Lord tarries.we 'd live or we'd write well and wealthily *Writers -just last Saturday convened to debate writing for profit or pleasure-which way* met at IBADAN, -mostly authors of Oyo state chapter of Nigerian Authors Association -where the most trasnlated novelist Chinua Achebe and the first NOBEL LAUREAT Iin Africa,Wole Soyinka also wrote copiously critically propes as well as poetry and drama that launched them into global appeal till date-both are still relevant to ethical revolution and good governance standards which were ever present in their literay artillery such *as ANTHILLS OF THE SAHARA,THINGS FALL APART,ARROW OF GOD,NO LONGER AT EASE and essays like ITS MORNING YET A CREATION DAY*and by Wole Soyinka reflective critical memoirs like *KONGI HARVEST, THE MAN DIED*.and artisry put in translated works of another earlier indigenous novelist D.O FAGUNWA ,*FORESTS OF A THOUSAND DEMONS( OGBOJU ODE NINU IGBO IRUMOLE,IRINKERINDO*) were reechoed at the symposium in sharp contrast with todays writers writing locally for cash.These older authors wee also functioning conscientiously to sanitise the staus quo which has never been beyond reproach.Infact their poems and plays ahve come alive as prophetic of what had earlier been the content of ther prokfessional art practice.No surprise Professor Wole Soyinka was invited to deliver a lecture(*ART & POLITICS)* as part of Nigeria 's 50TH ANNIVERSARY in Ondo State of Nigeria.. The truth is that nothing goes unrewarded especially in art and insofar as there's some some form of spirijtual or artistic fullfilment inthe travail of writing how much more if its a full time engagement -as a novelist or Nigerian faction writer like FUNSO OMOTOSHO or Nigeria poets such as NIYI OSUNDARE ,IGAGA IFOWODO working in New Orleans and New York and many more -including the indefatiguable critic BIODUN JEYIFO from Harvard University that can't be detailed here earning from literary works in U.K.and the United Nations as experts or just maintain the decorum of steady critiquing of selfish rulers who ought to be selfless leaders.Even then there are evidently failed states but there are alo a dangerous trend of docile followers all over the developing or teething democracies -even they can't write they can query bor examine whoever is going to rule them represent their rights ...actually pathological dormancy has been the social malaise since independence.As Chinua Achebe had written in Conntgemporay Novelists years back [-what we have is political indepenndence not economic independence] How else could we have been lacking behind technological revolution whereas Nigerians who havenn't stepped the Ivory Towers are practically gifted to tackel things of technique here or there when tools troubleshoot.Emman Emeagwali is just a case in point of wixzard suiquitous and others giving the necessary enablement can do wonders .How much more if they are trained without dangerous formalism-the sky is the linit in creativity ,innovative engineering not just rote learfvning or scholarship...the edifying parlance even for academics of all genre is patent or perish..Japan,China, have proved this smartness but without jettissioning their indigenous culture till they become proficient to make things and now qualified to be errand consultants for high tech consummable globally..Early writers and poets and journalists in Nigeria media of yesteryears have pressed for this dispenpation so rabidly as now timely! Drama teachers like Dapo Adelugba,Femi Osofisan are stil alive tom this onus of this generation that has witnessed IRREDEEMABLE WASTAGE...More info please the server might elope! GBEMI TIJANI MST29/10/2010,3.47AM On Thu, Oct 28, 2010 at 6:02 PM, BY TJMST wrote: > i also wonder what happened to the regular bumper format post of NEW POETRY > DIGEST TO THE REGULAR LIST...i used to think thatvthe grant that funded it > is n't dependent on the economy since the galaxy of generous contributors > and their steadily devoted audience fervently waiting for their daily menu > poetically know the list is ever buoyant.i really missed the digest since > my laptop loss to miscreants ROTARIAN GBEMI TIJANI MST > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: Tom Kostro > Date: Mon, Oct 25, 2010 at 2:51 PM > Subject: [New-Poetry] from Patricia > To: NewPoetry List > > > sorry to clutter your boxes with repeat and dummy questions but I went to > website > and saw that I must email jforjames to inquire about mail questions. > > Now I resubscribed to get list in digest form. > > Many of you scholars are friends from other lists > ie Wompo and Formalista Poet and even, The Thomas Hardy Association > but some of you as in jforjames are mystery guests! > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From orpheecd at yahoo.com Thu Oct 28 23:37:03 2010 From: orpheecd at yahoo.com (orphee) Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2010 20:37:03 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Fuel / Jealousy / Humanities / Crises In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <382878.44156.qm@web33308.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Been away! but thanks for this. And thanks to the wheezy wits that replied to my flying bamter. Especially the crap about Pessoa? I prefer Ginsberg. Who knew the meaning of poesy as covetousness and made the loot to prove. Kisses to all, especially the weak poets who hate Harold Bloom and other truth tellers. ________________________________ From: Jared Schickling To: New Poetry List Sent: Thu, October 21, 2010 8:26:48 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Fuel / Jealousy / Humanities / Crises Reading "Orphee's" "what matter your personal name," thought I'd pass along this awesome little bi-monthly newsletter -- Orphee, you'd enjoy it, perhaps -- available for free via request, and donations of any amount are accepted -- called Sous les Paves (google will find it), ed by Micah Robbins and his Interbirth Books. Re Orphee's "personal name" there's a preview / contextualization of Punch Press's soon to be released Kent Johnson chap, A Question Mark above the Sun: Documents on the Mystery Surrounding a Famous Poem "by" Frank O'Hara. The title of the piece is Kent Johnson Is the Author of Beowulf: Literary Hoaxes and the 'Desire for Origins.' Johnson's antics and actual project might not escape the charge of being ancient but there's the point that manages to persist... But my point is to recommend Sous les Paves -- in addition to the two articles some other kind of prose and verse and everything packaged in tight conceptual arc -- it is truly amazing (in my opinion) and down in the dirt free! Also I remember Robin's question a while back about what's going on over here -- and current point re the "fine tenderers of american potery" -- there's a great little article in the newsletter to that effect: "...What's new about this year's [Boston Book] festival, however, is the dirty bomb angle - spreading the cultural radiation beyond the convention center via the pseudo-community of the 'One City, One Story' program. In an otherwise cheerleading article about the city's adoption of a read-and-discuss initiative like those already piloted in Seattle and Chicago, a Boston Globe writer inadvertently let the mask slip when he identified such programs as 'cousins of the team-building exercises commonly staged at corporate retreats.' And sure enough, Boston's version does have a primary corporate sponsor, the Goldhirsh Foundation. Set up in 2000 by Bernard Goldhirsh after he was diagnosed with brain cancer, the foundation awards grants for brain cancer research and 'social entrepreneurial ventures.' But the late Goldhirsh's philanthropy goes back further than that: as a young engineer he worked on ballistic missile systems to keep us safe from communism and later moved on to found Inc., a business magazine best known for their annual 'Inc. 500' list of fastest-growing companies. The story itself was selected in bureaucratic back-room fashion by a committee made up of 'a designee from the Mayor's office, several branch librarians, several Boston Book Festival Board members and one or two other representatives of the community,' in which Perrotta's 'The Smile on Happy Chang's Face' - originally published in Post Road and reprinted in Best American Short Stories 2005 - somehow emerged as the consensus choice (Perrotta also sits on the festival's 'Honorary Advising Board')..." The piece contains some fine words on middle-management culture while critiquing the actual story to consider just why the city would choose to disseminate 30,000 copies in its own cover emblazoned with a Nike swoosh. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From orpheecd at yahoo.com Thu Oct 28 23:40:35 2010 From: orpheecd at yahoo.com (orphee) Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2010 20:40:35 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] from Patricia -FEEDBACK FROM BY.TJMST I HOPE THE LIST HASN'T ELOPED In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <154611.65993.qm@web33307.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I like this sort of Kleistian rush; what a relief compared to the usual introspective drivel written by post Bloomian whiners. O Polemics! O buggery! O Robin Hamiliton the world's worst poetaster! ahhhhahah Kisses and simony to all ~ Paris stinks and so doeth the whiny "francais'. Imagining complaining cause they must work! A nation of masturberaters! (PS that was orthographic libertinage) A true verse writer knows her words are the coin of the cheap and ready. ~Alors, back to something or other, et la paix.... ________________________________ From: BY TJMST To: NewPoetry List Cc: tomkostro at sprintmail.com Sent: Thu, October 28, 2010 10:52:43 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] from Patricia -FEEDBACK FROM BY.TJMST I HOPE THE LIST HASN'T ELOPED With infernal modesty -how can i regain the formal post featuring the many marvelous TODAY'S TOPICS AS MESSAGES LISTED in avalanche -yet characteristically literally rich -the harvest being from not only poets and writers,classicists published or reviewd post -humously but also a well informed polylogue among the real artists,practising poets,writers -to writers musing in harmless,artistically wealthy debate for posterity....Usually though i - with an eye for civic concern and defender of the the social role of typical writers and artists with concsience generally indulge ,albeit not in delirium to watch the still impeccable terraine of the battle of the enormously fantastic poets -especially the regular contributors including JFORJAMES,ANNY BALLADIN,DAVID GRAM,BOB GRUMANand recently AMY KING has joined with her own gorgeous poetry that unashamely provoke or catalyse libido politics or palpable splendour of feminity beyond the reproductive realities the supreme poet -creator endowed them Tacitly of course most poets and writers alike don't actually cconfess and therefore copiuosly write away partly for fear of being labelled an eccentric and surely because it might be too mind boggling to read such stuff if it's not skillfully done.I m sure the fervent readers globally is missing this aspect of writing from the raw auto - biograpical materialas a daily reality of unharvested or masturbated literature. i m optimising that the internet era will steadily annul this agraphia conditions in writing as well as in poetry....noting that individual meditations,poeticsand drama sketches that might otherwise serve as a primer or modest counsel for ethical living be divulged via blogspots,websites and podcasts ,You Tube facebook ,twitter,Peace network develped by Craig Zelizer, google,yyahoo,hotmail,justice,viviti,wordpress et cetera to name a few widely popular paths of the cyberspace....I also know that the writing revolution is one of the endeavours of humans across the ages that will not die except with the death of time itself-or as Christ believers would say as long as The Lord tarries.we 'd live or we'd write well and wealthily Writers -just last Saturday convened to debate writing for profit or pleasure-which way met at IBADAN, -mostly authors of Oyo state chapter of Nigerian Authors Association -where the most trasnlated novelist Chinua Achebe and the first NOBEL LAUREAT Iin Africa,Wole Soyinka also wrote copiously critically propes as well as poetry and drama that launched them into global appeal till date-both are still relevant to ethical revolution and good governance standards which were ever present in their literay artillery such as ANTHILLS OF THE SAHARA,THINGS FALL APART,ARROW OF GOD,NO LONGER AT EASE and essays like ITS MORNING YET A CREATION DAYand by Wole Soyinka reflective critical memoirs like KONGI HARVEST, THE MAN DIED.and artisry put in translated works of another earlier indigenous novelist D.O FAGUNWA ,FORESTS OF A THOUSAND DEMONS( OGBOJU ODE NINU IGBO IRUMOLE,IRINKERINDO) were reechoed at the symposium in sharp contrast with todays writers writing locally for cash.These older authors wee also functioning conscientiously to sanitise the staus quo which has never been beyond reproach.Infact their poems and plays ahve come alive as prophetic of what had earlier been the content of ther prokfessional art practice.No surprise Professor Wole Soyinka was invited to deliver a lecture(ART & POLITICS) as part of Nigeria 's 50TH ANNIVERSARY in Ondo State of Nigeria.. The truth is that nothing goes unrewarded especially in art and insofar as there's some some form of spirijtual or artistic fullfilment inthe travail of writing how much more if its a full time engagement -as a novelist or Nigerian faction writer like FUNSO OMOTOSHO or Nigeria poets such as NIYI OSUNDARE ,IGAGA IFOWODO working in New Orleans and New York and many more -including the indefatiguable critic BIODUN JEYIFO from Harvard University that can't be detailed here earning from literary works in U.K.and the United Nations as experts or just maintain the decorum of steady critiquing of selfish rulers who ought to be selfless leaders.Even then there are evidently failed states but there are alo a dangerous trend of docile followers all over the developing or teething democracies -even they can't write they can query bor examine whoever is going to rule them represent their rights ...actually pathological dormancy has been the social malaise since independence.As Chinua Achebe had written in Conntgemporay Novelists years back [-what we have is political indepenndence not economic independence] How else could we have been lacking behind technological revolution whereas Nigerians who havenn't stepped the Ivory Towers are practically gifted to tackel things of technique here or there when tools troubleshoot.Emman Emeagwali is just a case in point of wixzard suiquitous and others giving the necessary enablement can do wonders .How much more if they are trained without dangerous formalism-the sky is the linit in creativity ,innovative engineering not just rote learfvning or scholarship...the edifying parlance even for academics of all genre is patent or perish..Japan,China, have proved this smartness but without jettissioning their indigenous culture till they become proficient to make things and now qualified to be errand consultants for high tech consummable globally..Early writers and poets and journalists in Nigeria media of yesteryears have pressed for this dispenpation so rabidly as now timely! Drama teachers like Dapo Adelugba,Femi Osofisan are stil alive tom this onus of this generation that has witnessed IRREDEEMABLE WASTAGE...More info please the server might elope! GBEMI TIJANI MST29/10/2010,3.47AM On Thu, Oct 28, 2010 at 6:02 PM, BY TJMST wrote: i also wonder what happened to the regular bumper format post of NEW POETRY DIGEST TO THE REGULAR LIST...i used to think thatvthe grant that funded it is n't dependent on the economy since the galaxy of generous contributors and their steadily devoted audience fervently waiting for their daily menu poetically know the list is ever buoyant.i really missed the digest since my laptop loss to miscreants ROTARIAN GBEMI TIJANI MST > > >---------- Forwarded message ---------- >From: Tom Kostro >Date: Mon, Oct 25, 2010 at 2:51 PM >Subject: [New-Poetry] from Patricia >To: NewPoetry List > > >sorry to clutter your boxes with repeat and dummy questions but I went to >website >and saw that I must email jforjames to inquire about mail questions. > >Now I resubscribed to get list in digest form. > >Many of you scholars are friends from other lists >ie Wompo and Formalista Poet and even, The Thomas Hardy Association >but some of you as in jforjames are mystery guests! > > > >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From alexdickow9 at yahoo.com Fri Oct 29 03:29:57 2010 From: alexdickow9 at yahoo.com (Alexander Dickow) Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2010 00:29:57 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] from Patricia -FEEDBACK FROM BY.TJMST I HOPE THE LIST HASN'T ELOPED In-Reply-To: <154611.65993.qm@web33307.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <154611.65993.qm@web33307.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <729350.35110.qm@web35506.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I think we have a Kent infestation. Alex ? www.alexdickow.net/blog/ les mots! ah quel d?sert ? la fin merveilleux. -- Henri Droguet -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From almaginnes at aol.com Fri Oct 29 07:28:24 2010 From: almaginnes at aol.com (almaginnes at aol.com) Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2010 07:28:24 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Toot Message-ID: <8CD457388BCBBC1-2030-91C7@webmail-d038.sysops.aol.com> A couple of bits of good news: My poem "Prayer for the Imponderables" is in the fall issue of Southern Review, which should be on the stands or flying through the US postal service now. Pudding House just released my chapbook Greatest Hits 1987-2010. Al Maginnes -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Fri Oct 29 09:35:12 2010 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2010 08:35:12 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Toot In-Reply-To: <8CD457388BCBBC1-2030-91C7@webmail-d038.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CD457388BCBBC1-2030-91C7@webmail-d038.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <4CCACD90.6010602@nut-n-but.net> On 10/29/2010 6:28 AM, almaginnes at aol.com wrote: > > A couple of bits of good news: > > My poem "Prayer for the Imponderables" is in the fall issue of > Southern Review, which should be on the stands or flying through the > US postal service now. > > Pudding House just released my chapbook /Greatest Hits 1987-2010./ > > Al Maginnes Oops, now that you're in the latter series, Al, I'll have to withdraw the chapbook I have in it. Phooey. (Note to Jeff--I'm kidding. Congratulations to Al.) --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jeff.newberry at gmail.com Fri Oct 29 08:33:47 2010 From: jeff.newberry at gmail.com (Jeff Newberry) Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2010 08:33:47 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Toot In-Reply-To: <8CD457388BCBBC1-2030-91C7@webmail-d038.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CD457388BCBBC1-2030-91C7@webmail-d038.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: Congrats, Al. This is great news. --Jeff Newberry On Fri, Oct 29, 2010 at 7:28 AM, wrote: > > A couple of bits of good news: > > My poem "Prayer for the Imponderables" is in the fall issue of Southern > Review, which should be on the stands or flying through the US postal > service now. > > Pudding House just released my chapbook *Greatest Hits 1987-2010.* > > Al Maginnes > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- You cannot tell people what to do, you can only tell them parables; and that is what art really is, particular stories of particular people and experience, from which each according to his own immediate and peculiar needs may draw his own conclusion. --W.H. Auden -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Fri Oct 29 08:36:14 2010 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2010 14:36:14 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] The Poets' Corner - an update Message-ID: Dear All, The present update is dedicated to My Father. To the contributors, my very special acknowledgment. * * *New Authors on the Corner:* * * *Millicent Borges Accardi * * http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=Content&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=372 * * * *Vernon Frazer * * http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=Content&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=373 * * * *Bobbi Lurie * * http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=Content&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=374 * * * *Young Smith * * http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=Content&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=375 * * * *John Warner Smith * * http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=Content&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=376 * * * *Jared Schickling * * http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=Content&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=377 * * * *Karl Young * * http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=Content&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=379 * * * *Charles Alexander * * http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=Content&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=380 * * * *New Poems by already featured Authors:* * * *Evelyn Posamentier* *?* ANONYMOUS http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=3350 *?* 1526, BALTHASAR HUBMAIER http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=3351 *Ranjit Hoskote* *?* THE INVENTION OF THE SENSES http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=3352 *?* MIRROR http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=3353 *?* THE EMPIRE OF LIGHTS http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=3354 *?* THE SOLOIST PERFORMS WITH AN ORCHESTRA OF EVENTS http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=3355 *?* THE HOTEL RECEPTIONIST?S CONFESSION http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=3356 *?* FERN http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=3357 *Frank Parker* *?* zig-zag journeys http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=3358 *Max Richards* *?* Snap: Conducting Sibelius http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=3366 The boy on the cereal packet http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=3464 *Edward Mycue* *?* RUTH AND DAVID SWEET & NOBLE SAVAGES http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=3393 *?* Coming Clean http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=3394 *?* BETTER PLACE http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=3477 *Lanny Quarles* *?* Jester's Bladder Doll http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=3395 *?* Pain Grabber! Do Anything With Hovering Lantern Platforms! http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=3396 *John Bennett* *?* S T, P K http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=3397 *?* ? http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=3418 *?* Kilo http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=3419 *?* g http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=3420 *?* Shirt Shape http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=3421 *Jeffrey Side* *?* THERE ARE THOSE WHO REBEL AGAINST THE LIGHT http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=3398 *?* GOING HOME http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=3399 *?* THERE WAS A FEELING OF SYMPATHY BETWEEN US http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=3400 *?* YOU KNOW ANYTHING IS POSSIBLE http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=3401 *?* CUTTING UP THAT CROP http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=3402 *?* SOMETIMES THINGS ARE HARD TO PUT DOWN http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=3403 *?* THE SAMENESS OF DAYS http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=3404 *Joel Weishaus* *?* WOODBURNING STOVE http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=3405 *Halvard Johnson* *?* Meditation KFN http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=3406 *?* Critique http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=3407 *?* Meditation WX http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=3408 *Dennis Barone* *?* Ruins 1945 http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=3409 *?* Forensic http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=3410 *Christina Pacosz* *?* Faith, circa 1957 http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=3411 *Camille Martin* *?* from Looms http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=3412 *Alan Sondheim* *?* casting0 = casting about http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=3414 *?* ragtag http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=3422 *?* elegie http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=3426 *Ann Fisher-Wirth* *?* Slow Rain, October http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=3415 *Michael Pollock* *?* CONFUCIUS by Michael Pollock http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=3416 *Pam Brown* *?* Haywire here http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=3417 *Marton Koppany* *?* no question http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=3423 *?* Looking For http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=3424 *Jeff Harrison* *?* Gratiae http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=3427 *John R O Gery* *?* To Put Your Money Where Your Mouth Is http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=3451 *Jesse Glass* *?* Entroy and Books--Descriptions of Favorite Weathered Volumes and Texts http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=3452 *Obododimma Oha* *?* Ancestor in Fossil Text http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=3453 *?* In the Brightness of Dark Matter http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=3454 *John Bloomberg-Rissman* *?* from Flux, Clot & Froth - (excerpt 1) http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=3455 *?* from Flux, Clot & Froth - (excerpt 2) http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=3456 *?* from Flux, Clot & Froth - (excerpt 3) http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=3457 *Frederick Pollack* *?* Theory of Everything http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=3459 *Sheila E. Murphy* *?* offer me a story I cannot reframe http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=3460 *Diane Kendig* *?* FIRST GRADE AND IDENTITY POLITICS http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=3462 *?* Pals in 2011 http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=3463 *Mark Young* *?* A line from Edna St Vincent Millay http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=3465 *?* A line from Enid Blyton http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=3466 *?* A line from L?opold S?dar Senghor http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=3467 *?* A line from Lorenz Hart http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=3468 *?* A line from Snoop Doggy Dog http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=3469 *?* A line from Ron Silliman http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=3470 *Barry Alpert* *?* REMAINS OF ORSON WELLES [via Francoise Widhoff in Alain Cavalier?s ?Vies?] http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=3471 *?* THE STRANGER [via Orson Welles] http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=3472 *?* LE COMBAT DANS L'ILE [via Alain Cavalier et Louis Malle] http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=3473 *?* A BOUT DE SOUFFLE [via Jean-Luc Godard] http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=3474 *?* DE ZAAK ALZHEIMER (THE MEMORY OF A KILLER) [via Erik Van Looy] http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=3475 *?* JACQUES RIVETTE: PAROLE ET ECRIT http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=3476 *Jukka-Pekka Kervinen* *?* orta>ling http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=3478 *Under Poets on Poets:* * * *Cathy Colman presentata da Marilu? Ricci * * http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetsonpoets&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=88 * * * *?* ISTRUZIONI PER VIVERE http://www.fieralingue.it/modules/poetsonpoets/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=260 *?* RICETTA DI BELLEZZA http://www.fieralingue.it/modules/poetsonpoets/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=261 *?* VIDEO DAGLI ARCHIVI http://www.fieralingue.it/modules/poetsonpoets/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=262 *?* VIRTUALMENTE TUA http://www.fieralingue.it/modules/poetsonpoets/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=263 *Luigi Fontanella translated by Ned Condini * * http://www.fieralingue.it/modules/poetsonpoets/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=264 * * * *Peter Thompson introduces Tchicaa u Tam?si and translates Le Ventre * http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetsonpoets&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=90 *Under Reviews:* *Condini reviews Dante E. Calderini?s Who Better to Play the Devil * http://www.fieralingue.it/modules/poemreviews/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=264 * * *Leslie Hayerts reviews NOTES FROM THE RED ZONE by Christina Pacosz * http://www.fieralingue.it/modules/poemreviews/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=265 * * * * *Eugen Galasso?s note for Dennis Hopper * http://www.fieralingue.it/modules/poemreviews/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=266 * * *Claire Keyes reviews Crow Mercies by Penelope Scamble Schott * http://www.fieralingue.it/modules/poemreviews/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=267 My best wishes, Anny Ballardini -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Fri Oct 29 10:19:46 2010 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2010 16:19:46 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Toot In-Reply-To: References: <8CD457388BCBBC1-2030-91C7@webmail-d038.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: Excellent! Anny On Fri, Oct 29, 2010 at 2:33 PM, Jeff Newberry wrote: > Congrats, Al. This is great news. > > > > --Jeff Newberry > > On Fri, Oct 29, 2010 at 7:28 AM, wrote: > >> >> A couple of bits of good news: >> >> My poem "Prayer for the Imponderables" is in the fall issue of Southern >> Review, which should be on the stands or flying through the US postal >> service now. >> >> Pudding House just released my chapbook *Greatest Hits 1987-2010.* >> >> Al Maginnes >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > > > -- > You cannot tell people what to do, you can only tell them parables; and > that is what art really is, particular stories of particular people and > experience, from which each according to his own immediate and peculiar > needs may draw his own conclusion. --W.H. Auden > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Fri Oct 29 11:55:21 2010 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2010 11:55:21 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Whiting Awards for 3 poets Message-ID: <8CD4598D3693AE1-700-1168@webmail-d076.sysops.aol.com> http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/jacketcopy/2010/10/whiting-award-winners-announced.html The substantial awards -- grants of $50,000 each -- are designed to allow deepened focus and concentration on work that the awards committee cites as having "extraordinary talent and promise." The winners are: David Adjmi, plays. His productions include "Stunning," which premiered at Lincoln Center Theater. He is at work on a book for HarperCollins and lives in Brooklyn. Elif Batuman, nonfiction. Her collection of essays, "Possessed: Adventures with Russian Books and the People Who Read Them," was published this year by Farrar, Straus and Giroux. She is spending this year in Istanbul. Michael Dahlie, fiction. His first novel, "A Gentleman's Guide to Graceful Living," was published in 2008 by W.W. Norton. He lives in Indianapolis. Matt Donovan, poetry. His first collection, "Vellum," was published by Mariner/Houghton Mifflin in 2006. He lives in Santa Fe, N.M. Rattawut Lapcharoensap, fiction. His collection of short stories, "Sightseeing", was published by Grove in 2004, and he has a first novel under contract with Grove. He lives in Laramie, Wyo. Amy Leach, nonfiction. She is at work on a book of essays about animals, plants and stars for Milkweed Editions. She lives in Chicago. Lydia Peelle, fiction. Her collection of stories, "Reasons for and Advantages of Breathing," was published by Harper Perennial in 2009. She lives in Nashville. Sa?d Sayrafiezadeh, nonfiction. His memoir, "When Skateboards Will Be Free," was published in 2009 by the Dial Press. He lives in New York City and is at work on a novel. Jane Springer, poetry. Her first poetry collection, "Dear Blackbird," was published by University of Utah Press in 2007. She lives in Clinton, N.Y. LB Thompson, poetry. Her poetry chapbook is entitled "Tendered Notes: Poems of Love and Money." She lives on the North Fork of Long Island, has completed a poetry collection and is at work on a book of essays and a novel. Jim Finnegan 860-508-2810 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Fri Oct 29 08:34:04 2010 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2010 14:34:04 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] The Poets' Corner - an update Message-ID: Dear All, The present update is dedicated to My Father. To the contributors, my very special acknowledgment. * * *New Authors on the Corner:* * * *Millicent Borges Accardi * * http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=Content&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=372 * * * *Vernon Frazer * * http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=Content&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=373 * * * *Bobbi Lurie * * http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=Content&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=374 * * * *Young Smith * * http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=Content&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=375 * * * *John Warner Smith * * http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=Content&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=376 * * * *Jared Schickling * * http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=Content&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=377 * * * *Karl Young * * http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=Content&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=379 * * * *Charles Alexander * * http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=Content&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=380 * * * *New Poems by already featured Authors:* * * *Evelyn Posamentier* *?* ANONYMOUS http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=3350 *?* 1526, BALTHASAR HUBMAIER http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=3351 *Ranjit Hoskote* *?* THE INVENTION OF THE SENSES http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=3352 *?* MIRROR http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=3353 *?* THE EMPIRE OF LIGHTS http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=3354 *?* THE SOLOIST PERFORMS WITH AN ORCHESTRA OF EVENTS http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=3355 *?* THE HOTEL RECEPTIONIST?S CONFESSION http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=3356 *?* FERN http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=3357 *Frank Parker* *?* zig-zag journeys http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=3358 *Max Richards* *?* Snap: Conducting Sibelius http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=3366 The boy on the cereal packet http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=3464 *Edward Mycue* *?* RUTH AND DAVID SWEET & NOBLE SAVAGES http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=3393 *?* Coming Clean http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=3394 *?* BETTER PLACE http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=3477 *Lanny Quarles* *?* Jester's Bladder Doll http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=3395 *?* Pain Grabber! Do Anything With Hovering Lantern Platforms! http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=3396 *John Bennett* *?* S T, P K http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=3397 *?* ? http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=3418 *?* Kilo http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=3419 *?* g http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=3420 *?* Shirt Shape http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=3421 *Jeffrey Side* *?* THERE ARE THOSE WHO REBEL AGAINST THE LIGHT http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=3398 *?* GOING HOME http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=3399 *?* THERE WAS A FEELING OF SYMPATHY BETWEEN US http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=3400 *?* YOU KNOW ANYTHING IS POSSIBLE http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=3401 *?* CUTTING UP THAT CROP http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=3402 *?* SOMETIMES THINGS ARE HARD TO PUT DOWN http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=3403 *?* THE SAMENESS OF DAYS http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=3404 *Joel Weishaus* *?* WOODBURNING STOVE http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=3405 *Halvard Johnson* *?* Meditation KFN http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=3406 *?* Critique http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=3407 *?* Meditation WX http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=3408 *Dennis Barone* *?* Ruins 1945 http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=3409 *?* Forensic http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=3410 *Christina Pacosz* *?* Faith, circa 1957 http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=3411 *Camille Martin* *?* from Looms http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=3412 *Alan Sondheim* *?* casting0 = casting about http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=3414 *?* ragtag http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=3422 *?* elegie http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=3426 *Ann Fisher-Wirth* *?* Slow Rain, October http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=3415 *Michael Pollock* *?* CONFUCIUS by Michael Pollock http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=3416 *Pam Brown* *?* Haywire here http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=3417 *Marton Koppany* *?* no question http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=3423 *?* Looking For http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=3424 *Jeff Harrison* *?* Gratiae http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=3427 *John R O Gery* *?* To Put Your Money Where Your Mouth Is http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=3451 *Jesse Glass* *?* Entroy and Books--Descriptions of Favorite Weathered Volumes and Texts http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=3452 *Obododimma Oha* *?* Ancestor in Fossil Text http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=3453 *?* In the Brightness of Dark Matter http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=3454 *John Bloomberg-Rissman* *?* from Flux, Clot & Froth - (excerpt 1) http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=3455 *?* from Flux, Clot & Froth - (excerpt 2) http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=3456 *?* from Flux, Clot & Froth - (excerpt 3) http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=3457 *Frederick Pollack* *?* Theory of Everything http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=3459 *Sheila E. Murphy* *?* offer me a story I cannot reframe http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=3460 *Diane Kendig* *?* FIRST GRADE AND IDENTITY POLITICS http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=3462 *?* Pals in 2011 http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=3463 *Mark Young* *?* A line from Edna St Vincent Millay http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=3465 *?* A line from Enid Blyton http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=3466 *?* A line from L?opold S?dar Senghor http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=3467 *?* A line from Lorenz Hart http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=3468 *?* A line from Snoop Doggy Dog http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=3469 *?* A line from Ron Silliman http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=3470 *Barry Alpert* *?* REMAINS OF ORSON WELLES [via Francoise Widhoff in Alain Cavalier?s ?Vies?] http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=3471 *?* THE STRANGER [via Orson Welles] http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=3472 *?* LE COMBAT DANS L'ILE [via Alain Cavalier et Louis Malle] http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=3473 *?* A BOUT DE SOUFFLE [via Jean-Luc Godard] http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=3474 *?* DE ZAAK ALZHEIMER (THE MEMORY OF A KILLER) [via Erik Van Looy] http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=3475 *?* JACQUES RIVETTE: PAROLE ET ECRIT http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=3476 *Jukka-Pekka Kervinen* *?* orta>ling http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=3478 *Under Poets on Poets:* * * *Cathy Colman presentata da Marilu? Ricci * * http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetsonpoets&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=88 * * * *?* ISTRUZIONI PER VIVERE http://www.fieralingue.it/modules/poetsonpoets/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=260 *?* RICETTA DI BELLEZZA http://www.fieralingue.it/modules/poetsonpoets/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=261 *?* VIDEO DAGLI ARCHIVI http://www.fieralingue.it/modules/poetsonpoets/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=262 *?* VIRTUALMENTE TUA http://www.fieralingue.it/modules/poetsonpoets/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=263 *Luigi Fontanella translated by Ned Condini * * http://www.fieralingue.it/modules/poetsonpoets/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=264 * * * *Peter Thompson introduces Tchicaa u Tam?si and translates Le Ventre * http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetsonpoets&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=90 *Under Reviews:* *Condini reviews Dante E. Calderini?s Who Better to Play the Devil * http://www.fieralingue.it/modules/poemreviews/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=264 * * *Leslie Hayerts reviews NOTES FROM THE RED ZONE by Christina Pacosz * http://www.fieralingue.it/modules/poemreviews/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=265 * * * * *Eugen Galasso?s note for Dennis Hopper * http://www.fieralingue.it/modules/poemreviews/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=266 * * *Claire Keyes reviews Crow Mercies by Penelope Scamble Schott * http://www.fieralingue.it/modules/poemreviews/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=267 My best wishes, Anny Ballardini -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Fri Oct 29 09:07:50 2010 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2010 15:07:50 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] The Poets' Corner - an update Message-ID: Dear All, The present update is dedicated to My Father. To the contributors, my very special acknowledgment. * * *New Authors on the Corner:* * * *Millicent Borges Accardi * * http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=Content&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=372 * * * *Vernon Frazer * * http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=Content&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=373 * * * *Bobbi Lurie * * http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=Content&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=374 * * * *Young Smith * * http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=Content&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=375 * * * *John Warner Smith * * http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=Content&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=376 * * * *Jared Schickling * * http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=Content&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=377 * * * *Karl Young * * http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=Content&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=379 * * * *Charles Alexander * * http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=Content&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=380 * * * *New Poems by already featured Authors:* * * *Evelyn Posamentier* *?* ANONYMOUS http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=3350 *?* 1526, BALTHASAR HUBMAIER http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=3351 *Ranjit Hoskote* *?* THE INVENTION OF THE SENSES http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=3352 *?* MIRROR http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=3353 *?* THE EMPIRE OF LIGHTS http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=3354 *?* THE SOLOIST PERFORMS WITH AN ORCHESTRA OF EVENTS http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=3355 *?* THE HOTEL RECEPTIONIST?S CONFESSION http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=3356 *?* FERN http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=3357 *Frank Parker* *?* zig-zag journeys http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=3358 *Max Richards* *?* Snap: Conducting Sibelius http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=3366 The boy on the cereal packet http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=3464 *Edward Mycue* *?* RUTH AND DAVID SWEET & NOBLE SAVAGES http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=3393 *?* Coming Clean http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=3394 *?* BETTER PLACE http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=3477 *Lanny Quarles* *?* Jester's Bladder Doll http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=3395 *?* Pain Grabber! Do Anything With Hovering Lantern Platforms! http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=3396 *John Bennett* *?* S T, P K http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=3397 *?* ? http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=3418 *?* Kilo http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=3419 *?* g http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=3420 *?* Shirt Shape http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=3421 *Jeffrey Side* *?* THERE ARE THOSE WHO REBEL AGAINST THE LIGHT http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=3398 *?* GOING HOME http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=3399 *?* THERE WAS A FEELING OF SYMPATHY BETWEEN US http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=3400 *?* YOU KNOW ANYTHING IS POSSIBLE http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=3401 *?* CUTTING UP THAT CROP http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=3402 *?* SOMETIMES THINGS ARE HARD TO PUT DOWN http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=3403 *?* THE SAMENESS OF DAYS http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=3404 *Joel Weishaus* *?* WOODBURNING STOVE http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=3405 *Halvard Johnson* *?* Meditation KFN http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=3406 *?* Critique http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=3407 *?* Meditation WX http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=3408 *Dennis Barone* *?* Ruins 1945 http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=3409 *?* Forensic http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=3410 *Christina Pacosz* *?* Faith, circa 1957 http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=3411 *Camille Martin* *?* from Looms http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=3412 *Charlotte Mandel* *?* SEA CHANTEY http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=3413 *Alan Sondheim* *?* casting0 = casting about http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=3414 *?* ragtag http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=3422 *?* elegie http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=3426 *Ann Fisher-Wirth* *?* Slow Rain, October http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=3415 *Michael Pollock* *?* CONFUCIUS by Michael Pollock http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=3416 *Pam Brown* *?* Haywire here http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=3417 *Marton Koppany* *?* no question http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=3423 *?* Looking For http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=3424 *Jeff Harrison* *?* Gratiae http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=3427 *John R O Gery* *?* To Put Your Money Where Your Mouth Is http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=3451 *Jesse Glass* *?* Entroy and Books--Descriptions of Favorite Weathered Volumes and Texts http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=3452 *Obododimma Oha* *?* Ancestor in Fossil Text http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=3453 *?* In the Brightness of Dark Matter http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=3454 *John Bloomberg-Rissman* *?* from Flux, Clot & Froth - (excerpt 1) http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=3455 *?* from Flux, Clot & Froth - (excerpt 2) http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=3456 *?* from Flux, Clot & Froth - (excerpt 3) http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=3457 *Frederick Pollack* *?* Theory of Everything http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=3459 *Sheila E. Murphy* *?* offer me a story I cannot reframe http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=3460 *Diane Kendig* *?* FIRST GRADE AND IDENTITY POLITICS http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=3462 *?* Pals in 2011 http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=3463 *Mark Young* *?* A line from Edna St Vincent Millay http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=3465 *?* A line from Enid Blyton http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=3466 *?* A line from L?opold S?dar Senghor http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=3467 *?* A line from Lorenz Hart http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=3468 *?* A line from Snoop Doggy Dog http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=3469 *?* A line from Ron Silliman http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=3470 *Barry Alpert* *?* REMAINS OF ORSON WELLES [via Francoise Widhoff in Alain Cavalier?s ?Vies?] http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=3471 *?* THE STRANGER [via Orson Welles] http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=3472 *?* LE COMBAT DANS L'ILE [via Alain Cavalier et Louis Malle] http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=3473 *?* A BOUT DE SOUFFLE [via Jean-Luc Godard] http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=3474 *?* DE ZAAK ALZHEIMER (THE MEMORY OF A KILLER) [via Erik Van Looy] http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=3475 *?* JACQUES RIVETTE: PAROLE ET ECRIT http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=3476 *Jukka-Pekka Kervinen* *?* orta>ling http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=3478 *Under Poets on Poets:* * * *Cathy Colman presentata da Marilu? Ricci * * http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetsonpoets&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=88 * * * *?* ISTRUZIONI PER VIVERE http://www.fieralingue.it/modules/poetsonpoets/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=260 *?* RICETTA DI BELLEZZA http://www.fieralingue.it/modules/poetsonpoets/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=261 *?* VIDEO DAGLI ARCHIVI http://www.fieralingue.it/modules/poetsonpoets/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=262 *?* VIRTUALMENTE TUA http://www.fieralingue.it/modules/poetsonpoets/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=263 *Luigi Fontanella translated by Ned Condini * * http://www.fieralingue.it/modules/poetsonpoets/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=264 * * * *Peter Thompson introduces Tchicaa u Tam?si and translates Le Ventre * http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetsonpoets&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=90 *Under ReviewsZ* *Condini reviews Dante E. Calderini?s Who Better to Play the Devil * http://www.fieralingue.it/modules/poemreviews/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=264 * * *Leslie Hayerts reviews NOTES FROM THE RED ZONE by Christina Pacosz * http://www.fieralingue.it/modules/poemreviews/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=265 * * * * *Eugen Galasso?s note for Dennis Hopper * http://www.fieralingue.it/modules/poemreviews/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=266 * * *Claire Keyes reviews Crow Mercies by Penelope Scamble Schott * http://www.fieralingue.it/modules/poemreviews/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=267 My best wishes, Anny Ballardini -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Fri Oct 29 12:13:17 2010 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2010 18:13:17 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] The Poets' Corner - an update Message-ID: I hope you have not received my update yet, otherwise, please disregard the present mail. It seems that my mail with the links interferes with something on the New Poetry system. I therefore uploaded it on my blog: http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/2010/10/poets-corner-update.html Thank you for visiting, Anny -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Fri Oct 29 12:14:58 2010 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2010 18:14:58 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] a toot Message-ID: My* Shining, the Sun* is online at Peter Ganick's *experiential-experimental literature*: http://ex-ex-lit.blogspot.com/2010/10/poem-anny-balardini.html thank you for visiting, Anny -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From almaginnes at aol.com Fri Oct 29 12:47:31 2010 From: almaginnes at aol.com (almaginnes at aol.com) Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2010 12:47:31 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Toot In-Reply-To: <4CCACD90.6010602@nut-n-but.net> References: <8CD457388BCBBC1-2030-91C7@webmail-d038.sysops.aol.com> <4CCACD90.6010602@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <8CD45A01CE7D6C0-2070-1D96@webmail-d038.sysops.aol.com> I already spoke to them about that, Bob. You should be hearing from them shortly. -----Original Message----- From: Bob Grumman To: NewPoetry List Sent: Fri, Oct 29, 2010 8:30 am Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Toot On 10/29/2010 6:28 AM, almaginnes at aol.com wrote: A couple of bits of good news: My poem "Prayer for the Imponderables" is in the fall issue of Southern Review, which should be on the stands or flying through the US postal service now. Pudding House just released my chapbook Greatest Hits 1987-2010. Al Maginnes Oops, now that you're in the latter series, Al, I'll have to withdraw the chapbook I have in it. Phooey. (Note to Jeff--I'm kidding. Congratulations to Al.) --Bob _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From c.a.b.daly at gmail.com Fri Oct 29 13:10:14 2010 From: c.a.b.daly at gmail.com (Catherine Daly) Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2010 10:10:14 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Whiting Awards for 3 poets In-Reply-To: <8CD4598D3693AE1-700-1168@webmail-d076.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CD4598D3693AE1-700-1168@webmail-d076.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: Part of the problem is of course that the awards are by nomination only. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Fri Oct 29 13:11:09 2010 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2010 13:11:09 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] List Housekeeping In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8CD45A36A152ADC-31C-1A5@webmail-d076.sysops.aol.com> The listserv software seems to have issues with messages with 'implicit destinations' (If Wallace Stevens hasn't used it, that would be a good title for a poem, come to think of it): http://wiki.list.org/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=4030676 Annoucement messages with BCCs are often put in "hold for approval" status. Which can take several days for me to release. Then sometimes I release the message after the sender has already figured a way around the block... and that leads to duplicate messages hitting the list. The other thing I noticed was larger file sizes (often announcements) were getting held for approval. I upped the message size limit and I hope more of those messages will come thru without my having to release them. DIGEST is available on to subscribers. A few months ago some upgrades made to the software knocked subscribers out of the Digest mode. If you have your password or if get a new password from the system, it's easy sign in and put yourself back to Digest. Or just b/c me and I'll get you back on Digest mode. Someone whom I won't (actually cannot) name had to be unsubbed from the list. We have people on this list with differing sensibilities and aesthetic biases, and yet people on this list have been very good about disagreeing in a decorous and respectful manner. I've been reading A Saintsbury Miscellany (OUP, 1947), and in one memoir of George Saintsbury, this statement was made: "He [Saintsbury] was on the best of terms with many in the other camp, and it was a point of honor with him that opinions should not interfere with friendship." I appreciate that. Jim Finnegan _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Fri Oct 29 14:26:15 2010 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2010 13:26:15 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Toot In-Reply-To: <8CD45A01CE7D6C0-2070-1D96@webmail-d038.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CD457388BCBBC1-2030-91C7@webmail-d038.sysops.aol.com><4CCACD90.6010602@nut-n-but.net> <8CD45A01CE7D6C0-2070-1D96@webmail-d038.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <4CCB11C7.6030307@nut-n-but.net> On 10/29/2010 11:47 AM, almaginnes at aol.com wrote: > I already spoke to them about that, Bob. You should be hearing from > them shortly. ;-) Thanks, Al. Danged understanding of you, I must say. all best, Bob > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Bob Grumman > To: NewPoetry List > Sent: Fri, Oct 29, 2010 8:30 am > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Toot > > On 10/29/2010 6:28 AM, almaginnes at aol.com wrote: >> >> A couple of bits of good news: >> >> My poem "Prayer for the Imponderables" is in the fall issue of >> Southern Review, which should be on the stands or flying through the >> US postal service now. >> >> Pudding House just released my chapbook /Greatest Hits 1987-2010./ >> >> Al Maginnes > > Oops, now that you're in the latter series, Al, I'll have to withdraw > the chapbook I have in it. Phooey. > > (Note to Jeff--I'm kidding. Congratulations to Al.) > > --Bob > _______________________________________________ > > > New-Poetry mailing list > > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Fri Oct 29 15:09:15 2010 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2010 15:09:15 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] One Sentence Review Message-ID: <8CD45B3E9A689EE-1618-960@webmail-d076.sysops.aol.com> http://www.michiganquarterlyreview.com/2010/10/the-one-sentence-review/ The One Sentence Review A few years ago, the poet D.A. (Doug) Powell and I, in a fit of industry, embarked upon a project called The One Sentence Review. This was our call for submissions: ?Have you ever wanted to review a new book of poetry, but you felt like you might not have enough to say? The One Sentence Review doesn?t need you to blather on and on about how life-affirming or ground-breaking or challenging or redemptive each book is. On the contrary, we want the true essence of the book, cooked down into one encapsulating, qualitative, complete thought. Or less.? I think we had both grown weary of the blowsy logrolling, and blogrolling, and wanted a little concision. Something along the lines of Weldon Kees?s infamous snippy bit on Muriel Rukeyser?s Wake Island: ?There?s one thing you can say about Muriel: she?s not lazy.? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Fri Oct 29 15:19:16 2010 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2010 21:19:16 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] One Sentence Review In-Reply-To: <8CD45B3E9A689EE-1618-960@webmail-d076.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CD45B3E9A689EE-1618-960@webmail-d076.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: What an incredible find! Mine for James Finnegan: The hermit wandering and finding. On Fri, Oct 29, 2010 at 9:09 PM, wrote: > http://www.michiganquarterlyreview.com/2010/10/the-one-sentence-review/ > > The One Sentence Review > > A few years ago, the poet D.A. (Doug) Powell and I, in a fit of industry, > embarked upon a project called The One Sentence Review. This was our call > for submissions: > > ?Have you ever wanted to review a new book of poetry, but you felt like you > might not have enough to say? The One Sentence Review doesn?t need you to > blather on and on about how life-affirming or ground-breaking or challenging > or redemptive each book is. On the contrary, we want the true essence of > the book, cooked down into one encapsulating, qualitative, complete > thought. Or less.? > > I think we had both grown weary of the blowsy logrolling, and blogrolling, > and wanted a little concision. Something along the lines of Weldon Kees?s > infamous snippy bit on Muriel Rukeyser?s Wake Island: ?There?s one thing > you can say about Muriel: she?s not lazy.? > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Fri Oct 29 16:27:20 2010 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2010 16:27:20 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Halloween Weekend, ephemeral anthology Message-ID: <8CD45BED2A6C835-1BA8-134@webmail-d076.sysops.aol.com> Bring out your dead. Call forth the creepy-crawlies. For poets black is always in fashion. I'll start... -- The Bat By day the bat is cousin to the mouse. He likes the attic of an aging house. His fingers make a hat about his head. His pulse beat is so slow we think him dead. He loops in crazy figures half the night Among the trees that face the corner light. But when he brushes up against a screen, We are afraid of what our eyes have seen: For something is amiss or out of place When mice with wings can wear a human face --Theodore Roethke -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tad at opus40.org Fri Oct 29 16:45:26 2010 From: tad at opus40.org (Tad Richards) Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2010 16:45:26 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: Fw: November Poetry Events from Antrim House In-Reply-To: <001d01cb76c1$5642dfa0$82c96f4c@MyXPHome> References: <001d01cb76c1$5642dfa0$82c96f4c@MyXPHome> Message-ID: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: marylou richards Date: Thu, Oct 28, 2010 at 12:58 PM Subject: Fw: November Poetry Events from Antrim House To: "Richards, Tad" ----- Original Message ----- *From:* Rennie McQuilkin *To:* Rennie McQuilkin *Sent:* Thursday, October 28, 2010 12:34 PM *Subject:* November Poetry Events from Antrim House *ANTRIM HOUSE NEWSLETTER, NOVEMBER, 2010* *My hope is that you will forward this newsletter to those on your e-mail list. It would be grand if we could get a ?poetry chain? going. We have what is perhaps the most active poetry community anywhere, and it can only get better if you will forward memos like this to your contacts. Thanks, Rennie McQuilkin.* * * *Events Arranged Alphabetically:* * * *SUSAN ALLISON* *Sunday, November 14*, 2:00 p.m., The Windsor Art Center, 40 Mechanic St., Windsor, CT: reading/book-signing in the Poetry on the Line series occurring in the old Freight House at the Windsor depot. David K. Leff will be the other reader, with music by guitarist Joshua Jones. A reception will follow the reading. For more information: 860-217-0023, info at windsorartcenter.org, www.windsorartcenter.org. *JAKE ANDERSON* *Wednesday, November 17*, 5:00-7:00 p.m, Clare Gallery, St. Patrick - St. Anthony Church, 285 Church Street, Hartford, CT: Reception celebrating a gallery show based on Jake Anderson's recent book, *Homeless Souls.* The works in the show depict the homeless in various parts of the country, each photograph being accompanied by a comment or drawing by the person/s depicted. A panel discussion will be part of the opening. The panelists will include Jake Anderson (author), Rennie McQuilkin (publisher), Trudi White (Director of Volunteer Ministry at St. Patrick-St. Anthony Church and the Franciscan Center for Urban Ministry), Beth Fischer, RSM (Director of Community and Civic Engagement at Saint Joseph College), and Joan Gallagher (Associate Program Director at Mercy Housing and Shelter Corporation). This is a free event. Proceeds from sales of books and photographs will benefit the Franciscan Center for Urban Ministry at St. Patrick - St. Anthony Church. The show, which opens on November 4, will continue through the end of December. For more information, contact Nancy Wynn (nancy at nancywynn.com). ** * * *SHERRI BEDINGFIELD * *Sunday, November 7*, 3:00 p.m., The Buttonwood Tree, Performing Arts & Cultural Center, 605 Main Street, Middletown, CT: book launching (reading and book-signing) in conjunction with Mollie Pilling. Free and open to the public. For information: www.buttonwood.org, thebuttonwoodtree at gmail.com, 860-347-4957. *Thursday, November 18*, 7:00 p.m., Manchester Community College, Mishi-maya-gat Spoken Word & Music Series in the Great Path Academy Community Commons: reading and book-signing (with Ginny Lowe Connors, Julia Paul and Tony Fusco) as part of a celebration of the literary journal *Caduceus, *edited by Tony Fusco. Music (Nick Cutroneo, classical guitar, and Sarah Larsen, violin) begins at 7:00 p.m., poetry at 8:00 p.m. All Mishi-maya-gat events are free and open to the public. Park in MCC's Lot B. For more information, click here . *POLLY BRODY* *Saturday, November 6*, 2-4 p.m., ArtSpace Gallery, 555 Asylum Ave., Hartford, CT, Open Studio Hartford's First Annual Poetry Celebration: Polly Brody will read a poem she composed to accompany a painting by artist Lorna M. Cyr. She is one of 10 poets invited to present poems written for individual paintings exhibited by participating artists. For information: cyrlm at sbcglobal.net. *GINNY LOWE CONNORS* Antrim House Books announces with pleasure that work by Alexandrina Sergio, Ginny Lowe Connors, and Christine Beck has been selected for presentation by the East Haddam Stage Company on *November 4-6 and 11-13*. Characters they have created will be portrayed as part of a 90-minute performance at the East Haddam Historical Society, 264 Town St., East Haddam, CT. For tickets and information, call 860-873-3521 or visit www.EHSCO.org. *Saturday, November 6*, 2:00-4:00 p.m., Open Studio ArtSpace, Hartford, 555 Asylum Ave.: reading in "Ekphrasis Poetry Celebration." (Ginny will read a poem about the artwork titled "Wolftracks" by Sandy Parisky.) Others including Maria Sassi will also perform, and there will be an open mic. *Thursday, November 18*, 7:00 p.m., Manchester Community College, Mishi-maya-gat Spoken Word & Music Series in the Great Path Academy Community Commons: reading and book-signing (with Sherri Bedingfield, Julia Paul and Tony Fusco) as part of a celebration of the literary journal *Caduceus, *edited by Tony Fusco. Music (Nick Cutroneo, classical guitar, and Sarah Larsen, violin) begins at 7:00 p.m., poetry at 8:00 p.m. All Mishi-maya-gat events are free and open to the public. Park in MCC's Lot B. For more information, click here *ELIZABETH KINCAID-EHLERS* *Monday, November 8*, 3:00 p.m., Bishops Corner Branch Library (Senior Center Card Room), 15 Starkel Road, W. Hartford, CT: featured reader along with the other two members of the River's Edge Poets (Drew Sanborn and David Holdt). For information, call 860.561.8212. * * *JOAN KUNSCH* *Thursday, November 18*, 7:00 p.m.,Wintonbury Branch Poetry Series,Wintonbury Branch Library, 1015 Blue Hills Ave., Bloomfield, CT: reading and book-signing. An open mike will follow the event, and refreshments will be served. For information: 860-242-0041. *DAVID K. LEFF* *Sunday, November 14*, 2:00 p.m., The Windsor Art Center, 40 Mechanic St., Windsor, CT: reading and book-signing in the Poetry on the Line series occurring in the old Freight House at the Windsor depot. Susan Allison will be the other reader, with music by guitarist Joshua Jones. A reception will follow the reading. For more information: 860-217-0023, info at windsorartcenter.org, www.windsorartcenter.org. *SUZANNE LEVINE* * * *Thursday, November 18, *4:00 p.m., Essex (CT) Library: featured reader. Details TBA. * * *RENNIE MCQUILKIN* *Friday, November 5*, 7:00 PM, in the Gund Room of the Cole Library at Westminster School, 995 Hopmeadow St., Simsbury, CT: reading and book-signing as part of the school's on-going poetry series under the direction of Michael Cervas. Abigail Woodhouse, an 11th grader who has written poetry in lieu of sports, will read before McQuilkin. Free and open to the public. A reception will follow the reading. For more information, call 860-217-0023. * * *MOLLIE PILLING* *Sunday, November 7*, 3:00 p.m., The Buttonwood Tree, Performing Arts & Cultural Center, 605 Main Street, Middletown, CT: book launch (reading and book-signing) in conjunction with Sherri Bedingfield. Free and open to the public. For information: www.buttonwood.org, thebuttonwoodtree at gmail.com, 860-347-4957. *PAUL SCOLLAN* *Tuesday, November 2*, 7:00 p.m., Broad Street Books, 45 Broad St., Middletown, CT: reading and book-signing, preceded by a 6:30 p.m.interview on station WESU (88.1 FM). The event includes an open mike. For information contact Brian Mitchard at 860-685-7323. * * *ALEXANDRINA SERGIO* *Monday, November 1*, 6:30 p.m., Cafemantic (a European style coffee house), 948 Main Street, Willimantic: featured reader in "Got Poetry Live II" series. The event starts with an open mike. Information at (860) 423-4243. Antrim House Books announces with pleasure that work by Alexandrina Sergio, Ginny Lowe Connors, and Christine Beck has been selected for presentation by the East Haddam Stage Company on *November 4-6 and 11-13.* Characters they have created will be portrayed as part of a 90-minute performance at the East Haddam Historical Society, 264 Town St., East Haddam, CT. For tickets and information, call 860-873-3521 or visit www.EHSCO.org. *Saturday, November 6*, 2:00 p.m., Meriden Public Library, 105 Miller Street: An Afternoon of Poetry and Music with Alexandrina and David Sergio. Book signing to follow. Co-sponsored by the Meriden Library and the Meriden Poetry Society. Free, everyone welcome. More information at (203) 238-2344. *EDWINA TRENTHAM* *Wednesday, November 10*, 6:00 p.m., Playbox Theater, Naugatuck Valley Community College, 750 Chase Parkway, Waterbury, CT: reading as part of "Confluencia" (in conjunction with three other poets: Laurel S. Peterson, Felix Manuel Rodriguez, and Van Hartmann). The event will begin with a musical prelude and an open mike. For information click here . * * *SPECIAL EVENTS* * * *POETRY POTLUCK* at The Sanctuary, 59 Bogel Road, East Haddam, Connecticut. Third Sunday of every month, April - December. Do you love poetry? Would you like to be part of an ongoing poetry discussion group offering food for the mind and the heart? If so, come and join us on the first Sunday of each month from 4.30-6.00 PM. at The Yurt at the Sanctuary in East Haddam, Connecticut, to discuss poetry and build community.This is not about sharing our own work but instead offers us a chance to share the work of poets we love, so you don?t have to be a poet to be part of this group. Just come and bring your love of poetry and a poem you would like to share. For more information call 860-319-1134. The Sanctuary is at 59 Bogel Road, East Haddam, Connecticut. We meet in the Yurt, so use the driveway right after the 59 Bogel Road mailbox and park in the field near the Yurt. *RIVERWOOD POETRY SERIES* at Wood Memorial Library (The Underwood Caf?), 783 Main St., South Windsor, CT. On *Nov. 18 *at* *6:30 p.m. the featured poet will be *Clare Rossini. **The series offers* entertaining and thought-provoking poetry in a relaxed, caf?-style atmosphere. Each event offers a featured poet, an open mike, and refreshments. Admission is free; with donations gratefully accepted, including non-perishable foods for the benefit of St. Vincent de Paul Place. The event is held on the last Thursday of every month: September ? November, 2009; January ? May, 2010. For information, visit www.woodmemoriallibrary.org or call 860-289-1783. ** * * *W**ORD**F**ORGE READING SERIES* Location: The Studio @ Billings Forge 563 Broad Street, Hartford, CT 06106 WordForge Readings: A poetry reading series featuring local poets along with an open mike. Many readings will have a theme. All events will be scheduled for Monday nights, with a 7 p.m. start time. Parking is available next to Firebox restaurant, along Broad Street, or at the Lyceum (227 Lawrence St.). *Monday, November 15*, 7pm?Fall Harvest Open Mike A benefit reading for a local food pantry. Admission: A canned good or non-perishable food item or cash donation. All items and proceeds will be donated to Loaves & Fishes. http://loavesfishesministries.org/pantry_program.htm *WEST HARTFORD** ART LEAGUE* *Wednesday, November 10*, 6:30 p.m., West Hartford Art League, Clubhouse Gallery, 37 Buena Vista Rd., West Hartford, CT: featured poet, *Gray Jacobik *. Open mike to follow. Complimentary refreshments, books for sale. Suggested donation $5. Information: 860-231.8019, www.whal.org. Robert Rennie McQuilkin Antrim House PO Box 111, Tariffville, CT 06081 860-217-0023 www.antrimhousebooks.com Facebook: Antrim House Books -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From millb at aol.com Fri Oct 29 16:49:11 2010 From: millb at aol.com (Millicent) Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2010 16:49:11 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Halloween Weekend, ephemeral anthology In-Reply-To: <8CD45BED2A6C835-1BA8-134@webmail-d076.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CD45BED2A6C835-1BA8-134@webmail-d076.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <8CD45C1DFC9DD52-1844-4E3@webmail-d080.sysops.aol.com> In honor of Halloween--At Texas Tech (when I was on a fellowship there), I saw a display of the bat ?Micronycteris giovanniae,? named after the poet Nikki Giovanni, meaning Giovanni?s small night flyer. http://www.depts.ttu.edu/communications/news/stories/08/02-giovanni-bat.php Baker (a researcher) remembers breaking the news to Giovanni, and how it was slightly reminiscent of an adolescent prank. ?I wrote to her, ?You don?t know me and this isn?t a joke, but I want to name a bat after you; I told her it was a serious honor, but I wished to have her permission and not to offend her.? Giovanni ? amused by the proposition ? accepted and even touted her newly acquired honor to a Washington Post reporter. ?They did a story on her after she was nominated for a couple of humanitarian awards,? Baker said. ?She told the reporter she wasn?t going to win and everyone would ask, ?Who?s that woman in black?? But she didn?t care, because she was special ? she had a bat named after her.? Millicent -----Original Message----- From: jforjames at aol.com To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Fri, Oct 29, 2010 1:27 pm Subject: [New-Poetry] Halloween Weekend, ephemeral anthology Bring out your dead. Call forth the creepy-crawlies. For poets black is always in fashion. I'll start... -- The Bat By day the bat is cousin to the mouse. He likes the attic of an aging house. His fingers make a hat about his head. His pulse beat is so slow we think him dead. He loops in crazy figures half the night Among the trees that face the corner light. But when he brushes up against a screen, We are afraid of what our eyes have seen: For something is amiss or out of place When mice with wings can wear a human face --Theodore Roethke _______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Fri Oct 29 17:25:05 2010 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2010 17:25:05 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] more uses for books before they're gone Message-ID: <8CD45C6E39F55BD-1BA8-B9E@webmail-d076.sysops.aol.com> http://www.dailyartfixx.com/2010/04/15/mike-stilkey-book-sculpture/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Fri Oct 29 17:27:11 2010 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2010 17:27:11 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] One Sentence Review In-Reply-To: References: <8CD45B3E9A689EE-1618-960@webmail-d076.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <8CD45C72DE83DD2-1BA8-BFC@webmail-d076.sysops.aol.com> Anny, the term I use to refer to myself is 'hermit-at-large'. Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: Anny Ballardini To: NewPoetry List Sent: Fri, Oct 29, 2010 3:19 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] One Sentence Review What an incredible find! Mine for James Finnegan: The hermit wandering and finding. On Fri, Oct 29, 2010 at 9:09 PM, wrote: http://www.michiganquarterlyreview.com/2010/10/the-one-sentence-review/ The One Sentence Review A few years ago, the poet D.A. (Doug) Powell and I, in a fit of industry, embarked upon a project called The One Sentence Review. This was our call for submissions: ?Have you ever wanted to review a new book of poetry, but you felt like you might not have enough to say? The One Sentence Review doesn?t need you to blather on and on about how life-affirming or ground-breaking or challenging or redemptive each book is. On the contrary, we want the true essence of the book, cooked down into one encapsulating, qualitative, complete thought. Or less.? I think we had both grown weary of the blowsy logrolling, and blogrolling, and wanted a little concision. Something along the lines of Weldon Kees?s infamous snippy bit on Muriel Rukeyser?s Wake Island: ?There?s one thing you can say about Muriel: she?s not lazy.? _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale _______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From junction at earthlink.net Fri Oct 29 18:17:12 2010 From: junction at earthlink.net (Mark Weiss) Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2010 18:17:12 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Halloween Weekend, ephemeral anthology In-Reply-To: <8CD45BED2A6C835-1BA8-134@webmail-d076.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CD45BED2A6C835-1BA8-134@webmail-d076.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: THE WITCH?S BIRD To Joel James The bird was born of a machete?s blade It?s nothing like mockingbird blackbird or mournful dove: it was born of a machete?s blade not from some old bird?s white egg. Neither skylark nor quetzal nor the buzzard that anxiously tracks last footsteps, it lives in The Witch?s song. It makes its nest there, and it sings like the birds of sea and forest. It goads the mules. Implacable, in foul weather it flies above a hut?s palm thatch and someone must die. From March to October it?s the bird?s fault: if lightning strikes the midst of a palm tree if the river floods if a verse comes infinitely slowly bearing the aroma of the last of the coffee in every case?from March to October? it?s the bird?s fault. 2 They say that once a pair of friends found themselves in the night near the Witch's song, where they had gathered for a bout of magic, and that they brought forth the enormous urn of amulets and bones that had been till then the secret they held in trust for believers. They say that something came among them in that place where the bonds of the human are broken; but no one really knows. And that machetes were drawn. 3 The bird was born on the last violent rung of the heart hidden deep within the breast. No one can see it though it has flown over all the heights of the mountains. Soleida R?os, translated by Mark Weiss At 04:27 PM 10/29/2010, you wrote: >Bring out your dead. Call forth the >creepy-crawlies. For poets black is always in fashion. >I'll start... > >-- >The Bat > > >By day the bat is cousin to the mouse. >He likes the attic of an aging house. > >His fingers make a hat about his head. >His pulse beat is so slow we think him dead. > >He loops in crazy figures half the night >Among the trees that face the corner light. > >But when he brushes up against a screen, >We are afraid of what our eyes have seen: > >For something is amiss or out of place >When mice with wings can wear a human face > >--Theodore Roethke >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry New from Chax Press: Mark Weiss, As Landscape. $16. Order from http://www.chax.org/poets/weiss.htm "What a beautiful set of circumstances! What a lovely concatenation of particulars. Here is the poet alive in every sense of the word, and through every one of his senses. Instead of missing a beat or a part, Weiss? fragments are like Chekhov?s short stories?the more that gets left out, the more they seem to contain One can hear echoes from all the various ancestors...[but] the voice, at its center, its core, is pure Mark Weiss. His use of the fragment is both elegant and bafflingly clear, a pure musical threnody [it] opens a window, not only into a mind, but a person, a personality, this human figure at the emotional center of the poem." M.G. Stephens, in Jacket. http://jacketmagazine.com/40/r-weiss-rb-stephens.shtml -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From junction at earthlink.net Fri Oct 29 18:17:57 2010 From: junction at earthlink.net (Mark Weiss) Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2010 18:17:57 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Halloween Weekend, ephemeral anthology In-Reply-To: <8CD45BED2A6C835-1BA8-134@webmail-d076.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CD45BED2A6C835-1BA8-134@webmail-d076.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: Here's one I'd completely forgotten. OK for the occasion, anyway. PRESENCE I am the uninvited guest. I am the guest that hovers like breath outside the door, at the window sill, above the warm stream in snow-time I am the ghost at the nape of the neck that alarms the virgin I am the flush, the rush of blood in a public place. I am the guest for whom no place is set the suspicion. I am the breath from the mountains and the breath of the cave I am that which sucks the life and is the life I answer no prayers and may not be summoned. call me call me. I am the wound beyond longing the pain too sharp for regret I wear the wind you can see me there the love whose loss is never remembered and never forgotten. I inhabit the fluids I inhabit the dust. I am the smell that has no name and cannot be shut out. for this do the children love me and in the dark when I reach for them fear me. I am the never satisfied I am the one in clothes or naked I am dressed in flesh and the skins of blossoms I am the weaver who is never done, and I wear the weft of the fields. I am the dream whose aftertaste you call bouquet. ignored at peril, implacable in onslaught, and those whom I spare you call the lost. I am the one with the delicate feet I am the cloud and the rock and the stream, and the sound of the stream and the eye of the cat and the life of the fish and the owl. At 04:27 PM 10/29/2010, you wrote: >Bring out your dead. Call forth the >creepy-crawlies. For poets black is always in fashion. >I'll start... > >-- >The Bat > > >By day the bat is cousin to the mouse. >He likes the attic of an aging house. > >His fingers make a hat about his head. >His pulse beat is so slow we think him dead. > >He loops in crazy figures half the night >Among the trees that face the corner light. > >But when he brushes up against a screen, >We are afraid of what our eyes have seen: > >For something is amiss or out of place >When mice with wings can wear a human face > >--Theodore Roethke >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry New from Chax Press: Mark Weiss, As Landscape. $16. Order from http://www.chax.org/poets/weiss.htm "What a beautiful set of circumstances! What a lovely concatenation of particulars. Here is the poet alive in every sense of the word, and through every one of his senses. Instead of missing a beat or a part, Weiss? fragments are like Chekhov?s short stories?the more that gets left out, the more they seem to contain One can hear echoes from all the various ancestors...[but] the voice, at its center, its core, is pure Mark Weiss. His use of the fragment is both elegant and bafflingly clear, a pure musical threnody [it] opens a window, not only into a mind, but a person, a personality, this human figure at the emotional center of the poem." M.G. Stephens, in Jacket. http://jacketmagazine.com/40/r-weiss-rb-stephens.shtml -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tad at opus40.org Fri Oct 29 18:27:57 2010 From: tad at opus40.org (Tad Richards) Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2010 18:27:57 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Toot In-Reply-To: <4CCB11C7.6030307@nut-n-but.net> References: <8CD457388BCBBC1-2030-91C7@webmail-d038.sysops.aol.com> <4CCACD90.6010602@nut-n-but.net> <8CD45A01CE7D6C0-2070-1D96@webmail-d038.sysops.aol.com> <4CCB11C7.6030307@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: Great news. On Fri, Oct 29, 2010 at 2:26 PM, Bob Grumman wrote: > On 10/29/2010 11:47 AM, almaginnes at aol.com wrote: > > I already spoke to them about that, Bob. You should be hearing from them > shortly. [image: ;-)] > > > Thanks, Al. Danged understanding of you, I must say. > > all best, Bob > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Bob Grumman > To: NewPoetry List > Sent: Fri, Oct 29, 2010 8:30 am > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Toot > > On 10/29/2010 6:28 AM, almaginnes at aol.com wrote: > > > A couple of bits of good news: > > My poem "Prayer for the Imponderables" is in the fall issue of Southern > Review, which should be on the stands or flying through the US postal > service now. > > Pudding House just released my chapbook *Greatest Hits 1987-2010.* > > Al Maginnes > > > Oops, now that you're in the latter series, Al, I'll have to withdraw the > chapbook I have in it. Phooey. > > (Note to Jeff--I'm kidding. Congratulations to Al.) > > --Bob > > _______________________________________________ > > > New-Poetry mailing list > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing listNew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.eduhttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From c.a.b.daly at gmail.com Sat Oct 30 01:32:01 2010 From: c.a.b.daly at gmail.com (Catherine Daly) Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2010 22:32:01 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Halloween Weekend, ephemeral anthology In-Reply-To: <8CD45BED2A6C835-1BA8-134@webmail-d076.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CD45BED2A6C835-1BA8-134@webmail-d076.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: This is the "Halloween" portion of "Candy" from VAUXHALL. I read it last Halloween at Beyond Baroque with Janet Holmes and Kate Greenstreet. Halloween Guising, stories of circumstance, narrate Big Rock Candy Mountain, *?a purple plum mansion In the midst of a strawberry stream And melliferous bells ring out softly >From a hill of vanilla fudge cream* souling, ?puling like a beggar,? fabulate Land of Cockaigne, land of clowns and cotton, turtles mountain peanut butter mountain mountain tiny size kit cat big cat zero symphony pecan roll cumberland ridge confection costume dress of corruption, a festival mask to exorcise, signifier in drag. pecan delight pecans and caramel Frankenstein s?mores mike and ike marshmallow and graham cracker mummy autumn mix miniatures autumn mix blood balls mouth coloring sour center autumn mix skull pops * * *Candy grew up on the island,* turned away from origins, undoing, reversing stars?horoscope?fate undoing, de-priving public un, *then he was a she.* practice wink, blink, raising a brow a perfect vanilla gloss lip print on a picture ?whisper? * * *Girls will be boys and boys will be girls.* * * hold it with your tongue, one end against your teeth, use the tip of your tongue to roll it in a circle, push one end through *Drink champagne, tastes like cherry* *cola.* if you want it creamy crystalline, showy, starry: specially handle prevent premature crystallization promote velvet ?stale or withered nuts will defeat all your care? Razor in the apple, poison. *I?m coming out.* *I?m coming up.* ?Ring my bell.? *I?m thinking about my doorbell.* It is a coming of age story. In the entire book, the inset portions of poems function differently from the others; in "Candy", they are vending machines and in-store candy racks, the packaging, read left to right. So they are found sound and visual poems, "[turtles]" and "[pecan delight]" All best, Catherine Daly c.a.b.daly at gmail.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From by.tjmst at gmail.com Sat Oct 30 03:02:47 2010 From: by.tjmst at gmail.com (BY TJMST) Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2010 23:02:47 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] New-Poetry Digest, Vol 3, Issue 66 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: dearest BY.TJMST would like to enjoy this kind of listserve again I promise to remain active despite my laptop loss.ThanksI also appreciate poets who have been posting their contriutions and blogs address contents since the list post stopped .I appreciate this poetic spirit and solidarity rooted in and peculiar to writers and poets who re also committed to individual expression however.Gbemi Tijani MST On Fri, Oct 29, 2010 at 12:45 PM, wrote: > Send New-Poetry mailing list submissions to > new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > new-poetry-request at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > You can reach the person managing the list at > new-poetry-owner at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of New-Poetry digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. The Poets' Corner - an update (Anny Ballardini) > 2. a toot (Anny Ballardini) > 3. Re: Toot (almaginnes at aol.com) > 4. Re: Whiting Awards for 3 poets (Catherine Daly) > 5. List Housekeeping (jforjames at aol.com) > 6. Re: Toot (Bob Grumman) > 7. One Sentence Review (jforjames at aol.com) > 8. Re: One Sentence Review (Anny Ballardini) > 9. Halloween Weekend, ephemeral anthology (jforjames at aol.com) > 10. Fwd: Fw: November Poetry Events from Antrim House (Tad Richards) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2010 18:13:17 +0200 > From: Anny Ballardini > To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &, Views" > > Subject: [New-Poetry] The Poets' Corner - an update > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > I hope you have not received my update yet, otherwise, please disregard the > present mail. > > It seems that my mail with the links interferes with something on the New > Poetry system. > > I therefore uploaded it on my blog: > http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/2010/10/poets-corner-update.html > > Thank you for visiting, Anny > > -- > Anny Ballardini > http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ > http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome > http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 > http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html > I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing > star! > Friedrich Nietzsche > > ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique > vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? > Giovenale > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20101029/1685adfa/attachment-0001.html > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2010 18:14:58 +0200 > From: Anny Ballardini > To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &, Views" > > Subject: [New-Poetry] a toot > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > My* Shining, the Sun* is online at Peter Ganick's > *experiential-experimental > literature*: > http://ex-ex-lit.blogspot.com/2010/10/poem-anny-balardini.html > > thank you for visiting, Anny > > -- > Anny Ballardini > http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ > http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome > http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 > http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html > I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing > star! > Friedrich Nietzsche > > ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique > vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? > Giovenale > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20101029/203c9bec/attachment-0001.html > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2010 12:47:31 -0400 (EDT) > From: almaginnes at aol.com > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Toot > Message-ID: <8CD45A01CE7D6C0-2070-1D96 at webmail-d038.sysops.aol.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > I already spoke to them about that, Bob. You should be hearing from them > shortly. > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Bob Grumman > To: NewPoetry List > Sent: Fri, Oct 29, 2010 8:30 am > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Toot > > > On 10/29/2010 6:28 AM, almaginnes at aol.com wrote: > > > > A couple of bits of good news: > > My poem "Prayer for the Imponderables" is in the fall issue of > Southern Review, which should be on the stands or flying > through the US postal service now. > > Pudding House just released my chapbook Greatest Hits > 1987-2010. > > Al Maginnes > > > Oops, now that you're in the latter series, Al, I'll have to withdraw > the chapbook I have in it. Phooey. > > (Note to Jeff--I'm kidding. Congratulations to Al.) > > --Bob > > > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20101029/adee5981/attachment-0001.html > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2010 10:10:14 -0700 > From: Catherine Daly > To: NewPoetry List > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Whiting Awards for 3 poets > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > Part of the problem is of course that the awards are by nomination only. > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20101029/12243f5c/attachment-0001.html > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2010 13:11:09 -0400 > From: jforjames at aol.com > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Subject: [New-Poetry] List Housekeeping > Message-ID: <8CD45A36A152ADC-31C-1A5 at webmail-d076.sysops.aol.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > > > The listserv software seems to have issues with messages with 'implicit > destinations' (If Wallace Stevens hasn't used it, that would be a good title > for a poem, come to think of it): > http://wiki.list.org/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=4030676 > Annoucement messages with BCCs are often put in "hold for approval" status. > Which can take several days for me > to release. Then sometimes I release the message after the sender has > already figured a way around the block... > and that leads to duplicate messages hitting the list. > > The other thing I noticed was larger file sizes (often announcements) were > getting held for approval. I upped the message size limit and I hope more of > those messages will come thru without my having to release them. > > DIGEST is available on to subscribers. A few months ago some upgrades made > to the software knocked subscribers out of the Digest mode. If you have your > password or if get a new password from the system, it's easy sign in and put > yourself back to Digest. Or just b/c me and I'll get you back on Digest > mode. > > Someone whom I won't (actually cannot) name had to be unsubbed from the > list. We have people on this list with differing sensibilities and aesthetic > biases, and yet people on this list have been very good about disagreeing in > a decorous and respectful manner. I've been reading > A Saintsbury Miscellany (OUP, 1947), and in one memoir of George > Saintsbury, this statement was made: > "He [Saintsbury] was on the best of terms with many in the other camp, and > it was a point of honor with him that opinions should not interfere with > friendship." > I appreciate that. > > Jim Finnegan > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20101029/fe701248/attachment-0001.html > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 6 > Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2010 13:26:15 -0500 > From: Bob Grumman > To: NewPoetry List > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Toot > Message-ID: <4CCB11C7.6030307 at nut-n-but.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; Format="flowed" > > On 10/29/2010 11:47 AM, almaginnes at aol.com wrote: > > I already spoke to them about that, Bob. You should be hearing from > > them shortly. ;-) > > Thanks, Al. Danged understanding of you, I must say. > > all best, Bob > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Bob Grumman > > To: NewPoetry List > > Sent: Fri, Oct 29, 2010 8:30 am > > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Toot > > > > On 10/29/2010 6:28 AM, almaginnes at aol.com wrote: > >> > >> A couple of bits of good news: > >> > >> My poem "Prayer for the Imponderables" is in the fall issue of > >> Southern Review, which should be on the stands or flying through the > >> US postal service now. > >> > >> Pudding House just released my chapbook /Greatest Hits 1987-2010./ > >> > >> Al Maginnes > > > > Oops, now that you're in the latter series, Al, I'll have to withdraw > > the chapbook I have in it. Phooey. > > > > (Note to Jeff--I'm kidding. Congratulations to Al.) > > > > --Bob > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > New-Poetry mailing list > > > > > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > > > > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20101029/291e6162/attachment-0001.html > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 7 > Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2010 15:09:15 -0400 > From: jforjames at aol.com > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Subject: [New-Poetry] One Sentence Review > Message-ID: <8CD45B3E9A689EE-1618-960 at webmail-d076.sysops.aol.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > > http://www.michiganquarterlyreview.com/2010/10/the-one-sentence-review/ > > The One Sentence Review > > A few years ago, the poet D.A. (Doug) Powell and I, in a fit of industry, > embarked upon a project called The One Sentence Review. This was our call > for submissions: > > ?Have you ever wanted to review a new book of poetry, but you felt like you > might not have enough to say? The One Sentence Review doesn?t need you to > blather on and on about how life-affirming or ground-breaking or challenging > or redemptive each book is. On the contrary, we want the true essence of > the book, cooked down into one encapsulating, qualitative, complete thought. > Or less.? > > I think we had both grown weary of the blowsy logrolling, and blogrolling, > and wanted a little concision. Something along the lines of Weldon Kees?s > infamous snippy bit on Muriel Rukeyser?s Wake Island: ?There?s one thing > you can say about Muriel: she?s not lazy.? > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20101029/19176448/attachment-0001.html > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 8 > Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2010 21:19:16 +0200 > From: Anny Ballardini > To: NewPoetry List > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] One Sentence Review > Message-ID: > > > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" > > What an incredible find! > > Mine for James Finnegan: > > The hermit wandering and finding. > > On Fri, Oct 29, 2010 at 9:09 PM, wrote: > > > http://www.michiganquarterlyreview.com/2010/10/the-one-sentence-review/ > > > > The One Sentence Review > > > > A few years ago, the poet D.A. (Doug) Powell and I, in a fit of industry, > > embarked upon a project called The One Sentence Review. This was our > call > > for submissions: > > > > ?Have you ever wanted to review a new book of poetry, but you felt like > you > > might not have enough to say? The One Sentence Review doesn?t need you > to > > blather on and on about how life-affirming or ground-breaking or > challenging > > or redemptive each book is. On the contrary, we want the true essence of > > the book, cooked down into one encapsulating, qualitative, complete > > thought. Or less.? > > > > I think we had both grown weary of the blowsy logrolling, and > blogrolling, > > and wanted a little concision. Something along the lines of Weldon > Kees?s > > infamous snippy bit on Muriel Rukeyser?s Wake Island: ?There?s one thing > > you can say about Muriel: she?s not lazy.? > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > > > -- > Anny Ballardini > http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ > http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome > http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 > http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html > I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing > star! > Friedrich Nietzsche > > ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique > vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? > Giovenale > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20101029/7103b529/attachment-0001.html > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 9 > Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2010 16:27:20 -0400 > From: jforjames at aol.com > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Subject: [New-Poetry] Halloween Weekend, ephemeral anthology > Message-ID: <8CD45BED2A6C835-1BA8-134 at webmail-d076.sysops.aol.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > > Bring out your dead. Call forth the creepy-crawlies. For poets black is > always in fashion. > I'll start... > > -- > The Bat > > > By day the bat is cousin to the mouse. > He likes the attic of an aging house. > > His fingers make a hat about his head. > His pulse beat is so slow we think him dead. > > He loops in crazy figures half the night > Among the trees that face the corner light. > > But when he brushes up against a screen, > We are afraid of what our eyes have seen: > > For something is amiss or out of place > When mice with wings can wear a human face > > --Theodore Roethke > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20101029/b834c22e/attachment-0001.html > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 10 > Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2010 16:45:26 -0400 > From: Tad Richards > To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &, Views" > > Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: Fw: November Poetry Events from Antrim > House > Message-ID: > > > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: marylou richards > Date: Thu, Oct 28, 2010 at 12:58 PM > Subject: Fw: November Poetry Events from Antrim House > To: "Richards, Tad" > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* Rennie McQuilkin > *To:* Rennie McQuilkin > *Sent:* Thursday, October 28, 2010 12:34 PM > *Subject:* November Poetry Events from Antrim House > > *ANTRIM HOUSE NEWSLETTER, NOVEMBER, 2010* > > *My hope is that you will forward this newsletter to those on your e-mail > list. It would be grand if we could get a ?poetry chain? going. We have > what > is perhaps the most active poetry community anywhere, and it can only get > better if you will forward memos like this to your contacts. Thanks, Rennie > McQuilkin.* > > * * > > *Events Arranged Alphabetically:* > > * * > > *SUSAN ALLISON* > > *Sunday, November 14*, 2:00 p.m., The Windsor Art Center, 40 Mechanic St., > Windsor, CT: reading/book-signing in the Poetry on the Line series > occurring > in the old Freight House at the Windsor depot. David K. Leff will be the > other reader, with music by guitarist Joshua Jones. A reception will follow > the reading. For more information: 860-217-0023, info at windsorartcenter.org > , > www.windsorartcenter.org. > > > > *JAKE ANDERSON* > > *Wednesday, November 17*, 5:00-7:00 p.m, Clare Gallery, St. Patrick - St. > Anthony Church, 285 Church Street, Hartford, CT: Reception celebrating a > gallery show based on Jake Anderson's recent book, *Homeless Souls.* The > works in the show depict the homeless in various parts of the country, each > photograph being accompanied by a comment or drawing by the person/s > depicted. A panel discussion will be part of the opening. The panelists > will > include Jake Anderson (author), Rennie McQuilkin (publisher), Trudi White > (Director of Volunteer Ministry at St. Patrick-St. Anthony Church and the > Franciscan Center for Urban Ministry), Beth Fischer, RSM (Director of > Community and Civic Engagement at Saint Joseph College), and Joan Gallagher > (Associate Program Director at Mercy Housing and Shelter Corporation). This > is a free event. Proceeds from sales of books and photographs will benefit > the Franciscan Center for Urban Ministry at St. Patrick - St. Anthony > Church. The show, which opens on November 4, will continue through the end > of December. For more information, contact Nancy Wynn (nancy at nancywynn.com > ). > ** > > * * > > *SHERRI BEDINGFIELD * > > *Sunday, November 7*, 3:00 p.m., The Buttonwood Tree, Performing Arts & > Cultural Center, 605 Main Street, Middletown, CT: book launching (reading > and book-signing) in conjunction with Mollie Pilling. Free and open to the > public. For information: www.buttonwood.org, thebuttonwoodtree at gmail.com, > 860-347-4957. > > *Thursday, November 18*, 7:00 p.m., Manchester Community College, > Mishi-maya-gat Spoken Word & Music Series in the Great Path Academy > Community Commons: reading and book-signing (with Ginny Lowe Connors, Julia > Paul and Tony Fusco) as part of a celebration of the literary journal > *Caduceus, > *edited by Tony Fusco. Music (Nick Cutroneo, classical guitar, and Sarah > Larsen, violin) begins at 7:00 p.m., poetry at 8:00 p.m. All Mishi-maya-gat > events are free and open to the public. Park in MCC's Lot B. For more > information, click here . > > > > *POLLY BRODY* > > *Saturday, November 6*, 2-4 p.m., ArtSpace Gallery, 555 Asylum Ave., > Hartford, CT, Open Studio Hartford's First Annual Poetry Celebration: Polly > Brody will read a poem she composed to accompany a painting by artist Lorna > M. Cyr. She is one of 10 poets invited to present poems written for > individual paintings exhibited by participating artists. For information: > cyrlm at sbcglobal.net. > > > > *GINNY LOWE CONNORS* > > Antrim House Books announces with pleasure that work by Alexandrina Sergio, > Ginny Lowe Connors, and Christine Beck has been selected for presentation > by > the East Haddam Stage Company on *November 4-6 and 11-13*. Characters they > have created will be portrayed as part of a 90-minute performance at the > East Haddam Historical Society, 264 Town St., East Haddam, CT. For tickets > and information, call 860-873-3521 or visit www.EHSCO.org. > > *Saturday, November 6*, 2:00-4:00 p.m., Open Studio ArtSpace, Hartford, 555 > Asylum Ave.: reading in "Ekphrasis Poetry Celebration." (Ginny will read a > poem about the artwork titled "Wolftracks" by Sandy Parisky.) Others > including Maria Sassi will also perform, and there will be an open mic. > > *Thursday, November 18*, 7:00 p.m., Manchester Community College, > Mishi-maya-gat Spoken Word & Music Series in the Great Path Academy > Community Commons: reading and book-signing (with Sherri Bedingfield, Julia > Paul and Tony Fusco) as part of a celebration of the literary journal > *Caduceus, > *edited by Tony Fusco. Music (Nick Cutroneo, classical guitar, and Sarah > Larsen, violin) begins at 7:00 p.m., poetry at 8:00 p.m. All Mishi-maya-gat > events are free and open to the public. Park in MCC's Lot B. For more > information, click here > > > > *ELIZABETH KINCAID-EHLERS* > > *Monday, November 8*, 3:00 p.m., Bishops Corner Branch Library (Senior > Center Card Room), 15 Starkel Road, W. Hartford, CT: featured reader along > with the other two members of the River's Edge Poets (Drew Sanborn and > David > Holdt). For information, call 860.561.8212. > > > > * * > > *JOAN KUNSCH* > > *Thursday, November 18*, 7:00 p.m.,Wintonbury Branch Poetry > Series,Wintonbury Branch Library, 1015 Blue Hills Ave., Bloomfield, CT: > reading and book-signing. An open mike will follow the event, and > refreshments will be served. For information: 860-242-0041. > > > > *DAVID K. LEFF* > > *Sunday, November 14*, 2:00 p.m., The Windsor Art Center, 40 Mechanic St., > Windsor, CT: reading and book-signing in the Poetry on the Line series > occurring in the old Freight House at the Windsor depot. Susan Allison will > be the other reader, with music by guitarist Joshua Jones. A reception will > follow the reading. For more information: 860-217-0023, > info at windsorartcenter.org, > www.windsorartcenter.org. > > > > > > > > *SUZANNE LEVINE* > > * * > > *Thursday, November 18, *4:00 p.m., Essex (CT) Library: featured reader. > Details TBA. > > > > * * > > *RENNIE MCQUILKIN* > > *Friday, November 5*, 7:00 PM, in the Gund Room of the Cole Library at > Westminster School, 995 Hopmeadow St., Simsbury, CT: reading and > book-signing as part of the school's on-going poetry series under the > direction of Michael Cervas. Abigail Woodhouse, an 11th grader who has > written poetry in lieu of sports, will read before McQuilkin. Free and open > to the public. A reception will follow the reading. For more information, > call 860-217-0023. > > > > * * > > *MOLLIE PILLING* > > *Sunday, November 7*, 3:00 p.m., The Buttonwood Tree, Performing Arts & > Cultural Center, 605 Main Street, Middletown, CT: book launch (reading and > book-signing) in conjunction with Sherri Bedingfield. Free and open to the > public. For information: www.buttonwood.org, thebuttonwoodtree at gmail.com, > 860-347-4957. > > > > *PAUL SCOLLAN* > > *Tuesday, November 2*, 7:00 p.m., Broad Street Books, 45 Broad St., > Middletown, CT: reading and book-signing, preceded by a 6:30 p.m.interview > on station WESU (88.1 FM). The event includes an open mike. For information > contact Brian Mitchard at 860-685-7323. > > * * > > *ALEXANDRINA SERGIO* > > *Monday, November 1*, 6:30 p.m., Cafemantic (a European style coffee > house), > 948 Main Street, Willimantic: featured reader in "Got Poetry Live II" > series. The event starts with an open mike. Information at (860) 423-4243. > > Antrim House Books announces with pleasure that work by Alexandrina Sergio, > Ginny Lowe Connors, and Christine Beck has been selected for presentation > by > the East Haddam Stage Company on *November 4-6 and 11-13.* Characters they > have created will be portrayed as part of a 90-minute performance at the > East Haddam Historical Society, 264 Town St., East Haddam, CT. For tickets > and information, call 860-873-3521 or visit www.EHSCO.org. > > *Saturday, November 6*, 2:00 p.m., Meriden Public Library, 105 Miller > Street: An Afternoon of Poetry and Music with Alexandrina and David Sergio. > Book signing to follow. Co-sponsored by the Meriden Library and the Meriden > Poetry Society. Free, everyone welcome. More information at (203) 238-2344. > > > > *EDWINA TRENTHAM* > > *Wednesday, November 10*, 6:00 p.m., Playbox Theater, Naugatuck Valley > Community College, 750 Chase Parkway, Waterbury, CT: reading as part of > "Confluencia" (in conjunction with three other poets: Laurel S. Peterson, > Felix Manuel Rodriguez, and Van Hartmann). The event will begin with a > musical prelude and an open mike. For information click > here< > http://www.nvcc.commnet.edu/Portals/0/Documents/PresidentsOffice/Confluencia/2010-November.pdf > > > . > > * * > > *SPECIAL EVENTS* > > * * > > *POETRY POTLUCK* at The Sanctuary, 59 Bogel Road, East Haddam, Connecticut. > Third Sunday of every month, April - December. Do you love poetry? Would > you > like to be part of an ongoing poetry discussion group offering food for the > mind and the heart? If so, come and join us on the first Sunday of each > month from 4.30-6.00 PM. at The Yurt at the Sanctuary in East Haddam, > Connecticut, to discuss poetry and build community.This is not about > sharing > our own work but instead offers us a chance to share the work of poets we > love, so you don?t have to be a poet to be part of this group. Just come > and > bring your love of poetry and a poem you would like to share. For more > information call 860-319-1134. The Sanctuary is at 59 Bogel Road, East > Haddam, Connecticut. We meet in the Yurt, so use the driveway right after > the 59 Bogel Road mailbox and park in the field near the Yurt. > > > > *RIVERWOOD POETRY SERIES* at Wood Memorial Library (The Underwood Caf?), > 783 > Main St., South Windsor, CT. On *Nov. 18 *at* *6:30 p.m. the featured poet > will be *Clare Rossini. **The series offers* entertaining and > thought-provoking poetry in a relaxed, caf?-style atmosphere. Each event > offers a featured poet, an open mike, and refreshments. Admission is free; > with donations gratefully accepted, including non-perishable foods for the > benefit of St. Vincent de Paul Place. The event is held on the last > Thursday > of every month: September ? November, 2009; January ? May, 2010. For > information, visit www.woodmemoriallibrary.org or call 860-289-1783. ** > > * * > > *W**ORD**F**ORGE READING SERIES* > Location: The Studio @ Billings Forge > 563 Broad Street, Hartford, CT 06106 > > WordForge Readings: A poetry reading series featuring local poets along > with > an open mike. Many readings will have a theme. All events will be scheduled > for Monday nights, with a 7 p.m. start time. Parking is available next to > Firebox restaurant, along Broad Street, or at the Lyceum (227 Lawrence > St.). > > > *Monday, November 15*, 7pm?Fall Harvest Open Mike > > A benefit reading for a local food pantry. > Admission: A canned good or non-perishable food item or cash donation. > All items and proceeds will be donated to Loaves & Fishes. > http://loavesfishesministries.org/pantry_program.htm > > > > *WEST HARTFORD** ART LEAGUE* > > *Wednesday, November 10*, 6:30 p.m., West Hartford Art League, Clubhouse > Gallery, 37 Buena Vista Rd., West Hartford, CT: featured poet, *Gray > Jacobik > *. Open mike to follow. Complimentary refreshments, books for sale. > Suggested donation $5. Information: 860-231.8019, > www.whal.org. > > > > > > > > Robert Rennie McQuilkin > > Antrim House > > PO Box 111, Tariffville, CT 06081 > > 860-217-0023 > > www.antrimhousebooks.com > > Facebook: Antrim House Books > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20101029/a1aa8265/attachment.html > > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > End of New-Poetry Digest, Vol 3, Issue 66 > ***************************************** > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fox.skip at gmail.com Sat Oct 30 07:29:53 2010 From: fox.skip at gmail.com (Skip Fox) Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2010 06:29:53 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] One Sentence Review In-Reply-To: <8CD45C72DE83DD2-1BA8-BFC@webmail-d076.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CD45B3E9A689EE-1618-960@webmail-d076.sysops.aol.com> <8CD45C72DE83DD2-1BA8-BFC@webmail-d076.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: My favorite one sentence review: "The page is no longer blank." On Fri, Oct 29, 2010 at 4:27 PM, wrote: > Anny, the term I use to refer to myself is 'hermit-at-large'. > Finnegan > > -----Original Message----- > From: Anny Ballardini > To: NewPoetry List > Sent: Fri, Oct 29, 2010 3:19 pm > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] One Sentence Review > > What an incredible find! > > Mine for James Finnegan: > > The hermit wandering and finding. > > On Fri, Oct 29, 2010 at 9:09 PM, wrote: > >> http://www.michiganquarterlyreview.com/2010/10/the-one-sentence-review/ >> >> The One Sentence Review >> >> A few years ago, the poet D.A. (Doug) Powell and I, in a fit of industry, >> embarked upon a project called The One Sentence Review. This was our call >> for submissions: >> >> ?Have you ever wanted to review a new book of poetry, but you felt like >> you might not have enough to say? The One Sentence Review doesn?t need you >> to blather on and on about how life-affirming or ground-breaking or >> challenging or redemptive each book is. On the contrary, we want the true >> essence of the book, cooked down into one encapsulating, qualitative, >> complete thought. Or less.? >> >> I think we had both grown weary of the blowsy logrolling, and blogrolling, >> and wanted a little concision. Something along the lines of Weldon Kees?s >> infamous snippy bit on Muriel Rukeyser?s Wake Island: ?There?s one thing >> you can say about Muriel: she?s not lazy.? >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > > > -- > Anny Ballardini > http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ > http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome > http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 > http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html > I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing > star! > Friedrich Nietzsche > > ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique > vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? > Giovenale > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing listNew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.eduhttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Sat Oct 30 19:10:24 2010 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2010 19:10:24 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Halloween Weekend, ephemeral anthology In-Reply-To: References: <8CD45BED2A6C835-1BA8-134@webmail-d076.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <8CD469EC47BF182-A08-DB1B@webmail-m096.sysops.aol.com> Guilty The man certainly looked guilty. Ugly, ragged, and not clean. Not to mention their finding him there in the woods with her body. Neighbors told how he was always playing with dead squirrels, mangled dogs, even snakes. He said those were the only things that would allow him to get close. "Look at me," the old man said with uncomplaining simplicity, "I'm already one of the dead among the dead. It's hard to watch things humiliated the way death does it. Possums smeared on the road, birds with ants eating out their eyes. Even dying rats want privacy for their disgrace. It's true I washed the dirt from her face and the blood off the body. Combed her hair. I slept beside her, at her feet for two days, the way my dog used to. I got the dress on the best I could. She looked so neglected. Like garbage thrown in the weeds. Like nobody cared because he had done that to her. I kept thinking about how long she is going to be alone now. I knew the police would take pictures and put them in the papers naked and open so people eating breakfast could look at her. I wanted to give her spirit enough time to get ready." ?Jack Gilbert -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sat Oct 30 21:22:44 2010 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2010 20:22:44 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Parts of Speech Question In-Reply-To: References: <8CD45BED2A6C835-1BA8-134@webmail-d076.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <4CCCC4E4.4070401@nut-n-but.net> Nothing to do with poetry, except that it's about words, but I thought James might let me ask (as the moderator of a Shakespeare discussion group to which two or three people a day post at most apparently won't): as I was writing a blog entry, I suddenly realized I didn't know what part of speech "spoken" is in the phrase, "the spoken word." It acts like an adjective but it's some kind of verb, right. A participle of some kind? Not important, at all, but I'd like to know. Also, does anyone know of a book that would be about stuff like this? I have some handbooks of usage but wouldn't know how to look something like this up. Any help appreciated, Bob From jforjames at aol.com Sat Oct 30 20:29:56 2010 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2010 20:29:56 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Lives of the Poets (at Iowa and after) Message-ID: <8CD46A9E106575A-F38-DAC4@webmail-m077.sysops.aol.com> http://books.wwnorton.com/books/detail.aspx?ID=17077 All Is Forgotten, Nothing Is Lost A Novel Lan Samantha Chang (Author, University of Iowa, Writers' Workshop) Overview | Inside the Book A haunting story of art, ambition, love, and friendship by a writer of elegant, exacting prose. At the renowned writing school in Bonneville, every student is simultaneously terrified of and attracted to the charismatic and mysterious poet and professor Miranda Sturgis, whose high standards for art are both intimidating and inspiring. As two students, Roman and Bernard, strive to win her admiration, the lines between mentorship, friendship, and love are blurred. Roman's star rises early, and his first book wins a prestigious prize. Meanwhile, Bernard labors for years over a single poem. Secrets of the past begin to surface, friendships are broken, and Miranda continues to cast a shadow over their lives. What is the hidden burden of early promise? What are the personal costs of a life devoted to the pursuit of art? All Is Forgotten, Nothing Is Lost is a brilliant evocation of the demands of ambition and vocation, personal loyalty and poetic truth. Book Details Hardcover September 2010 ISBN 978-0-393-06306-6 5.9 ? 8.6 in / 208 pages -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jjeffreymail at yahoo.com Sat Oct 30 20:30:48 2010 From: jjeffreymail at yahoo.com (John Jeffrey) Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2010 17:30:48 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Parts of Speech Question In-Reply-To: <4CCCC4E4.4070401@nut-n-but.net> References: <8CD45BED2A6C835-1BA8-134@webmail-d076.sysops.aol.com> <4CCCC4E4.4070401@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <400850.45245.qm@web120504.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Adjective ________________________________ From: Bob Grumman To: NewPoetry List Sent: Sat, October 30, 2010 9:22:44 PM Subject: [New-Poetry] Parts of Speech Question Nothing to do with poetry, except that it's about words, but I thought James might let me ask (as the moderator of a Shakespeare discussion group to which two or three people a day post at most apparently won't): as I was writing a blog entry, I suddenly realized I didn't know what part of speech "spoken" is in the phrase, "the spoken word." It acts like an adjective but it's some kind of verb, right. A participle of some kind? Not important, at all, but I'd like to know. Also, does anyone know of a book that would be about stuff like this? I have some handbooks of usage but wouldn't know how to look something like this up. Any help appreciated, Bob _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sat Oct 30 21:58:48 2010 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2010 20:58:48 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Parts of Speech Question In-Reply-To: <400850.45245.qm@web120504.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <8CD45BED2A6C835-1BA8-134@webmail-d076.sysops.aol.com><4CCCC4E4 .4070401@nut-n-but.net> <400850.45245.qm@web120504.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4CCCCD58.7020307@nut-n-but.net> On 10/30/2010 7:30 PM, John Jeffrey wrote: > Adjective Thanks, but is that all? Would it also be a participle? Sorry to be dumb, but it's been a long time--isn't "moving" in "moving car," both? (For some reason, I have an urge to really know all the parts of speech, something I sure wasn't interested in , in school--though I liked diagramming sentences.) Okay, it seems to be clarifying for me--a participial phrase can modify like an adjective, but the participle stays a verb. Right. I just got confused for a bit, I think, like one sometimes does when a common word suddenly doesn't make sense. At least for me Not senility, for things like that have been happening to me all my life. Oops. Now I thought of "singing cowboy." Verb? Thanking you in advance for your forbearance. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at gmail.com Sat Oct 30 21:48:31 2010 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2010 20:48:31 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Parts of Speech Question In-Reply-To: <400850.45245.qm@web120504.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <8CD45BED2A6C835-1BA8-134@webmail-d076.sysops.aol.com> <4CCCC4E4.4070401@nut-n-but.net> <400850.45245.qm@web120504.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: It's a past particle wearing its adjective hat. Hal Serving the tri-state area. Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home *Mainly Black , **Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ;* *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; * ***Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; * ***G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; * *Transparencies & Projections * On Sat, Oct 30, 2010 at 7:30 PM, John Jeffrey wrote: > Adjective > > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Bob Grumman > *To:* NewPoetry List > *Sent:* Sat, October 30, 2010 9:22:44 PM > *Subject:* [New-Poetry] Parts of Speech Question > > Nothing to do with poetry, except that it's about words, but I thought > James might let me ask (as the moderator of a Shakespeare discussion group > to which two or three people a day post at most apparently won't): as I was > writing a blog entry, I suddenly realized I didn't know what part of speech > "spoken" is in the phrase, "the spoken word." It acts like an adjective but > it's some kind of verb, right. A participle of some kind? Not important, > at all, but I'd like to know. Also, does anyone know of a book that would > be about stuff like this? I have some handbooks of usage but wouldn't know > how to look something like this up. > > Any help appreciated, Bob > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From robin.hamilton3 at virginmedia.com Sat Oct 30 21:48:10 2010 From: robin.hamilton3 at virginmedia.com (Robin Hamilton) Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2010 01:48:10 -0000 Subject: [New-Poetry] Parts of Speech Question In-Reply-To: <4CCCCD58.7020307@nut-n-but.net> References: <8CD45BED2A6C835-1BA8-134@webmail-d076.sysops.aol.com><4CCCC4E4.4070401@nut-n-but.net><400850.45245.qm@web120504.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <4CCCCD58.7020307@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <1A88943FC6E34B7D9675CC6013B93336@OwnerPC> Participial adjective -- i.e. in this case, the past tense of the verb functioning as an adjective. http://www.ucl.ac.uk/internet-grammar/adjectiv/particip.htm Or, as the OED has it (see 2.a): Entry printed from Oxford English Dictionary Online Copyright ? Oxford University Press 2010 spoken, ppl. a. SECOND EDITION 1989 (spk()n) [Pa. pple. of SPEAK v. As the second element in combs., spoken is used in the sense of 'speaking' or 'given to speaking' in a specified way, as in blunt-, broad-, civil-, fine-, out-, plain-spoken, etc. Most of these date from the 17th cent. or later, but fair-spoken is found in 1460. ON. and Icel. talar (pa. pple. of tala to speak) is similarly used, even without a qualifying term.] 1. With preps.: That is or has been spoken about, of, to, etc. 1595 Drake's Voy. (Hakl. Soc.) 24 The..adventure she had been at in the glorious spoken-of jorney. 1865 'ANNIE THOMAS' On Guard xxi, She may not only speak, but may think, with affection..of the spoken about. 1875 WHITNEY Life Lang. x. 207 The speaker and the spoken-to. 2. a. Of language, words, etc.: Uttered in speech; oral. Also, colloquial as distinguished from literary. 1837 P. KEITH Bot. Lex. 370 To enable us to appreciate the value of tones, whether they be the modulations of music, or the articulation of a spoken language. 1867 Trans. Philol. Soc. Suppl. 1 On Palaeotype, or the representation of spoken sounds..by means of the ancient types. 1885 GLADSTONE in Westm. Gaz. 8 June 4/2 Reminding me that spoken words may fulfil a purpose higher than we mostly dream of. Robin _________________________________________________________________ From: Bob Grumman Sent: Sunday, October 31, 2010 1:58 AM To: NewPoetry List Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Parts of Speech Question On 10/30/2010 7:30 PM, John Jeffrey wrote: Adjective Thanks, but is that all? Would it also be a participle? Sorry to be dumb, but it's been a long time--isn't "moving" in "moving car," both? (For some reason, I have an urge to really know all the parts of speech, something I sure wasn't interested in , in school--though I liked diagramming sentences.) Okay, it seems to be clarifying for me--a participial phrase can modify like an adjective, but the participle stays a verb. Right. I just got confused for a bit, I think, like one sometimes does when a common word suddenly doesn't make sense. At least for me Not senility, for things like that have been happening to me all my life. Oops. Now I thought of "singing cowboy." Verb? Thanking you in advance for your forbearance. --Bob -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/gif Size: 40 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/gif Size: 818 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/gif Size: 842 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/gif Size: 846 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/gif Size: 841 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jjeffreymail at yahoo.com Sat Oct 30 22:42:13 2010 From: jjeffreymail at yahoo.com (John Jeffrey) Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2010 19:42:13 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Parts of Speech Question In-Reply-To: <4CCCCD58.7020307@nut-n-but.net> References: <8CD45BED2A6C835-1BA8-134@webmail-d076.sysops.aol.com><4CCCC4E4 .4070401@nut-n-but.net> <400850.45245.qm@web120504.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <4CCCCD58.7020307@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <806397.19371.qm@web120519.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Things get sticky with intent. I say it's an adjective because of the phrase you used, "the spoken word." To me, that phrase has lost all active intent, like the phrases "the written word" or "the printed word." When we say "the printed word," we're not really implying those giant spinning printers seen in the movies. "Printed," in that phrase, having lost all it's verbal qualities, has been tossed out of the verb club. "Spoken," in "the spoken word," is also out of the club. Then again, yes, it is a participle because it's derived from a verb. So if you want to get all exact about it... But I'm still sticking with adjective. (Poor Bob, with your propensity to want to "taxonomify" everything and have it all in nice, neat piles, I'd steer clear of grammar.) ________________________________ From: Bob Grumman To: NewPoetry List Sent: Sat, October 30, 2010 9:58:48 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Parts of Speech Question On 10/30/2010 7:30 PM, John Jeffrey wrote: Adjective > Thanks, but is that all? Would it also be a participle? Sorry to be dumb, but it's been a long time--isn't "moving" in "moving car," both? (For some reason, I have an urge to really know all the parts of speech, something I sure wasn't interested in , in school--though I liked diagramming sentences.) Okay, it seems to be clarifying for me--a participial phrase can modify like an adjective, but the participle stays a verb. Right. I just got confused for a bit, I think, like one sometimes does when a common word suddenly doesn't make sense. At least for me Not senility, for things like that have been happening to me all my life. Oops. Now I thought of "singing cowboy." Verb? Thanking you in advance for your forbearance. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chris.murray.bahrain at gmail.com Sat Oct 30 23:20:53 2010 From: chris.murray.bahrain at gmail.com (chris murray) Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2010 22:20:53 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Parts of Speech Question In-Reply-To: References: <8CD45BED2A6C835-1BA8-134@webmail-d076.sysops.aol.com> <4CCCC4E4.4070401@nut-n-but.net> <400850.45245.qm@web120504.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hal's got it, I think, because in the example, "spoken" functions to modify the noun, "word," with 'modify' being the operative indicator. Participials, in elementary terms, are known as "helping verbs," or so my understanding of it rests, and it seems not to function as "helping" a verb at all in this instance. What's interesting, too, is that many handbooks offer differing interpretations of these things, indicating how fluid is the language. But I think on this one, any recently done handbook such as Little Brown's or Harbrace, or Diana Hacker's Bedford quick reference (my favored bandbook text in composition instruction), would explain it well enough and give examples. On 10/30/10, Halvard Johnson wrote: > It's a past particle wearing its adjective hat. > > Hal Serving the tri-state area. > > Halvard Johnson > ================ > > halvard at gmail.com > http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > http://www.hamiltonstone.org > > http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home > > *Mainly > Black > , **Obras > P?blicas > ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other > Sonnets > ;* > *Organ Harvest with Entrance of > Clones > ; **Tango > Bouquet > ; **Theory of > Harmony > ; * > ***Rapsodie > espagnole > ; **Guide to the Tokyo > Subway > ; **The Sonnet > Project > ; * > ***G(e)nome ; **Winter > Journey ; > **Eclipse > ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; > * > *Transparencies & Projections > * > > > > > On Sat, Oct 30, 2010 at 7:30 PM, John Jeffrey wrote: > >> Adjective >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> *From:* Bob Grumman >> *To:* NewPoetry List >> *Sent:* Sat, October 30, 2010 9:22:44 PM >> *Subject:* [New-Poetry] Parts of Speech Question >> >> Nothing to do with poetry, except that it's about words, but I thought >> James might let me ask (as the moderator of a Shakespeare discussion group >> to which two or three people a day post at most apparently won't): as I >> was >> writing a blog entry, I suddenly realized I didn't know what part of >> speech >> "spoken" is in the phrase, "the spoken word." It acts like an adjective >> but >> it's some kind of verb, right. A participle of some kind? Not important, >> at all, but I'd like to know. Also, does anyone know of a book that would >> be about stuff like this? I have some handbooks of usage but wouldn't >> know >> how to look something like this up. >> >> Any help appreciated, Bob >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > From halvard at gmail.com Sat Oct 30 23:54:12 2010 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2010 22:54:12 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Parts of Speech Question In-Reply-To: References: <8CD45BED2A6C835-1BA8-134@webmail-d076.sysops.aol.com> <4CCCC4E4.4070401@nut-n-but.net> <400850.45245.qm@web120504.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Participle, you jackass. Hal Serving the tri-state area. Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home *Mainly Black , **Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ;* *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; * ***Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; * ***G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; * *Transparencies & Projections * On Sat, Oct 30, 2010 at 8:48 PM, Halvard Johnson wrote: > It's a past particle wearing its adjective hat. > > Hal Serving the tri-state area. > > Halvard Johnson > ================ > > halvard at gmail.com > http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > http://www.hamiltonstone.org > > http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home > > *Mainly Black > , **Obras P?blicas > ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets > ;* > *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones > ; **Tango Bouquet > ; **Theory of Harmony > ; * > ***Rapsodie espagnole > ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway > ; **The Sonnet Project > ; * > ***G(e)nome ; **Winter > Journey ; **Eclipse > ; **The Dance of the Red Swan > ;* > *Transparencies & Projections > * > > > > > On Sat, Oct 30, 2010 at 7:30 PM, John Jeffrey wrote: > >> Adjective >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> *From:* Bob Grumman >> *To:* NewPoetry List >> *Sent:* Sat, October 30, 2010 9:22:44 PM >> *Subject:* [New-Poetry] Parts of Speech Question >> >> Nothing to do with poetry, except that it's about words, but I thought >> James might let me ask (as the moderator of a Shakespeare discussion group >> to which two or three people a day post at most apparently won't): as I was >> writing a blog entry, I suddenly realized I didn't know what part of speech >> "spoken" is in the phrase, "the spoken word." It acts like an adjective but >> it's some kind of verb, right. A participle of some kind? Not important, >> at all, but I'd like to know. Also, does anyone know of a book that would >> be about stuff like this? I have some handbooks of usage but wouldn't know >> how to look something like this up. >> >> Any help appreciated, Bob >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sun Oct 31 06:20:40 2010 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2010 05:20:40 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Parts of Speech Question In-Reply-To: <806397.19371.qm@web120519.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <8CD45BED2A6C835-1BA8-134@webmail-d076.sysops.aol.com><4CCCC4E4 .4070401@nut-n-but.net><400850.45245.qm@web120504.mail.ne1.yahoo.com><4CCCCD58.7020307@nut-n-but.net> <806397.19371.qm@web120519.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4CCD42F8.5020506@nut-n-but.net> On 10/30/2010 9:42 PM, John Jeffrey wrote: > Things get sticky with intent. I say it's an adjective because of the > phrase you used, "the spoken word." To me, that phrase has lost all > active intent, like the phrases "the written word" or "the printed > word." When we say "the printed word," we're not really implying > those giant spinning printers seen in the movies. "Printed," in that > phrase, having lost all it's verbal qualities, has been tossed out of > the verb club. "Spoken," in "the spoken word," is also out of the club. > > Then again, yes, it is a participle because it's derived from a verb. > So if you want to get all exact about it... > > But I'm still sticking with adjective. > > (Poor Bob, with your propensity to want to "taxonomify" everything and > have it all in nice, neat piles, I'd steer clear of grammar.) Thanks, John. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sun Oct 31 06:22:26 2010 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2010 05:22:26 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Parts of Speech Question In-Reply-To: <1A88943FC6E34B7D9675CC6013B93336@OwnerPC> References: <8CD45BED2A6C835-1BA8-134@webmail-d076.sysops.aol.com><4CCCC4E4 .4070401@nut-n-but.net><400850.45245.qm@web120504.mail.ne1.yahoo.com><4CCCCD58.7020307@nut-n-but.net> <1A88943FC6E34B7D9675CC6013B93336@OwnerPC> Message-ID: <4CCD4362.8020801@nut-n-but.net> On 10/30/2010 8:48 PM, Robin Hamilton wrote: > Participial adjective -- i.e. in this case, the past tense of the verb > functioning as an adjective. Aha, I forgot the OED is a reference book. Thanks, Robin. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sun Oct 31 06:24:41 2010 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2010 05:24:41 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Parts of Speech Question In-Reply-To: References: <8CD45BED2A6C835-1BA8-134@webmail-d076.sysops.aol.com><4CCCC4E4 .4070401@nut-n-but.net><400850.45245.qm@web120504.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4CCD43E9.2050606@nut-n-but.net> On 10/30/2010 10:54 PM, Halvard Johnson wrote: > Participle, you jackass. I keep spelling it "participal." But my spell-checker keeps underlining it in red, so I haven't embarrassed myself.. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sun Oct 31 06:26:54 2010 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2010 05:26:54 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Parts of Speech Question In-Reply-To: <806397.19371.qm@web120519.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <8CD45BED2A6C835-1BA8-134@webmail-d076.sysops.aol.com><4CCCC4E4 .4070401@nut-n-but.net><400850.45245.qm@web120504.mail.ne1.yahoo.com><4CCCCD58.7020307@nut-n-but.net> <806397.19371.qm@web120519.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4CCD446E.90704@nut-n-but.net> John's mention of taxonomy in this discussion of parts of speech made me wonder about the taxonomy of parts of speech. Are there any words in the English whose part of speech stumps the experts--or is the taxonomy of parts of speech secure? --Bob From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Sun Oct 31 06:33:51 2010 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2010 11:33:51 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Halloween Weekend, ephemeral anthology In-Reply-To: <8CD469EC47BF182-A08-DB1B@webmail-m096.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CD45BED2A6C835-1BA8-134@webmail-d076.sysops.aol.com> <8CD469EC47BF182-A08-DB1B@webmail-m096.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: *HALLOWEEN* * * - *- **What do the witches bring?* - *- They bring frogs* - *- Why frogs* - *- Because as soon as you touch them they squeeze out of your hands with a squishing sound shinning all around- *she said - *- Haha* ? went the child without hair, her chemiotherapy had done its job Her grandfather, *her father*, crushed on his wheelchair, no word from his mouth for over three months ? his stroke had done its job. Her heart bumping wildly in her chest (In the background: Her sister, bursting as a fat duck, dangled in chuckles Her mother seized by her nightmares talked of death & ruin) : the light in the room reflected their outlines like linked sequins in the glass panels against *les t?n?bres* that were gathering outside in their rising nocturnal choir, a silent swinging ___Baudelaire and Van Gogh___ * * *Half a life and this was the show* ? she thought, *tomorrow the witches would come to see the unneeded deed they had so finely gushed out. * Anny This poem was kindly accepted by Peter Ganick for his experiential experimental literary blog: http://ex-ex-lit.blogspot.com/2010/10/halloween-what-do-witches-bring-they.html On Sun, Oct 31, 2010 at 1:10 AM, wrote: > Guilty > > > > > > The man certainly looked guilty. > > Ugly, ragged, and not clean. Not to mention > > their finding him there in the woods > > with her body. Neighbors told how he was > > always playing with dead squirrels, > > mangled dogs, even snakes. He said > > those were the only things that would > > allow him to get close. "Look at me," > > the old man said with uncomplaining > > simplicity, "I'm already one of the dead > > among the dead. It's hard to watch things > > humiliated the way death does it. > > Possums smeared on the road, birds with ants > > eating out their eyes. Even dying rats > > want privacy for their disgrace. > > It's true I washed the dirt from her face > > and the blood off the body. Combed her hair. > > I slept beside her, at her feet for two days, > > the way my dog used to. I got the dress > > on the best I could. She looked so neglected. > > Like garbage thrown in the weeds. > > Like nobody cared because he had done that > > to her. I kept thinking about how long > > she is going to be alone now. I knew > > the police would take pictures and put them > > in the papers naked and open so people > > eating breakfast could look at her. I wanted > > to give her spirit enough time to get ready." > > > > > > ?Jack Gilbert > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Sun Oct 31 07:18:14 2010 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2010 12:18:14 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Parts of Speech Question In-Reply-To: <4CCD446E.90704@nut-n-but.net> References: <8CD45BED2A6C835-1BA8-134@webmail-d076.sysops.aol.com> <400850.45245.qm@web120504.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <4CCCCD58.7020307@nut-n-but.net> <806397.19371.qm@web120519.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <4CCD446E.90704@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: Adjectival participle if you wish to know more: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adjectival_participle yuck, I know this section by heart. On Sun, Oct 31, 2010 at 11:26 AM, Bob Grumman wrote: > John's mention of taxonomy in this discussion of parts of speech made me > wonder about the taxonomy of parts of speech. Are there any words in the > English whose part of speech stumps the experts--or is the taxonomy of parts > of speech secure? > > --Bob > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sun Oct 31 09:53:36 2010 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2010 08:53:36 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Parts of Speech Question In-Reply-To: References: <8CD45BED2A6C835-1BA8-134@webmail-d076.sysops.aol.com><400850.4 5245.qm@web120504.mail.ne1.yahoo.com><4CCCCD58.7020307@nut-n-but.net><806397.19371.qm@web120519.mail.ne1.yahoo.com><4CCD446E.90 704@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <4CCD74E0.3030203@nut-n-but.net> On 10/31/2010 6:18 AM, Anny Ballardini wrote: > Adjectival participle I'm disappointed--now I can't give it a name. I was thinking "adjicule." Mr. Taxonomy From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Sun Oct 31 09:04:26 2010 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2010 14:04:26 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Parts of Speech Question In-Reply-To: <4CCD74E0.3030203@nut-n-but.net> References: <8CD45BED2A6C835-1BA8-134@webmail-d076.sysops.aol.com> <4CCCCD58.7020307@nut-n-but.net> <806397.19371.qm@web120519.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <4CCD74E0.3030203@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: adjipartiple sounds not too bad On Sun, Oct 31, 2010 at 2:53 PM, Bob Grumman wrote: > On 10/31/2010 6:18 AM, Anny Ballardini wrote: > >> Adjectival participle >> > I'm disappointed--now I can't give it a name. I was thinking "adjicule." > > Mr. Taxonomy > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Sun Oct 31 09:19:23 2010 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2010 14:19:23 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Duotrope Message-ID: Greetings from Duotrope's Digest, *How is our Keep It Free Campaign going?* Need: HIGHEST! We are very behind on reaching this month's goal. We have only received enough donations to cover approximately 24 days of running Duotrope this month. Even a small amount will help! If all of our subscribers contributed just $4.25 per year, we would meet our goal for the year. Unfortunately, only a small percentage of our subscribers contributes. So far this year, 10.72% of our subscribers have donated. The average donation has been $23.85. (Learn more about the campaign and why we need donations. If you would like to help but can't afford to send a contribution, please go here to see other ways you can help. Thanks!) Here are the latest market additions and updates, as well as some upcoming themed publication deadlines. *Paying Markets Added* (since last newsletter): 1: The New Writer *Non-Paying Markets Added* (since last newsletter): 1: Dinosaur Bees: A Journal of the Carefully Strange 2: Exercise Bowler 3: Glassworks 4: Guerilla Pamphlets 5: The Literary Burlesque 6: Love is the Law Magazine (Adult) 7: Parcel 8: Whale Sound *Markets Updated* (since last newsletter): 1. Amoeba : Website has not been functioning for over a month; editor has not responded to us; we are declaring this a "dead" market. 2. laurahird.com : Website has not been updated in over a year; editor has not responded to our inquiries; we are declaring this a "dead" market. *Markets that have Opened/Re-Opened to fee-free submissions* (since last newsletter): 1. Amor Fati 2. Boston Review 3. Flutter Press 4. MiPOesias 5. Roadrunner Haiku Journal 6. Sixth Finch 7. Specs 8. Strange Love Anthology 9. Victorian Violet Press & Journal, The 10. you are here *Markets that have Temporarily Closed to fee-free submissions* (since last newsletter): 1. FRACT/ONS (Fractions) 2. inscape 3. Peril 4. Shadowtrain 5. Thin Air *New Interviews Posted* (since last newsletter): 1. Mobius: The Journal of Social Change 2. J Journal 3. Alien Sloth Sex *Upcoming Themed Publication Deadlines:* 10/31/2010: Build it up and knock it down - Magma Poetry 10/31/2010: Cernunnos - Hoofprints in the Wildwood 10/31/2010: Needle & Haystack - apparatus magazine 10/31/2010: October Prosetry Contest: General Cable 7 - Moon Milk Review 10/31/2010: The Bio Issue - In Posse Review 10/31/2010: The Feminine - La Femme - Etchings 10/31/2010: The Poetry Issue - blossombones 10/31/2010: Things Lost - River Poets Journal 10/31/2010: What Is Surrealism? - Now Culture 10/31/2010: Zen-Inspired Poetry - Matrix 11/1/2010: Adopted Chinese girls - Chinese Daughters 11/1/2010: African mythology - EMG-Zine 11/1/2010: Labor - 5x5 (Five by Five) 11/1/2010: New & Old: Re-Visions of The American South - Crab Orchard Review 11/1/2010: One thing done superbly - THEMA 11/1/2010: Poems in Forms - Verse Wisconsin 11/1/2010: Setting - Mason's Road 11/1/2010: The juvenile pariah of YOUR village - Village Pariah, The 11/1/2010: Undiscovered - Punkin House Digest 11/1/2010: Water - Little Patuxent Review 11/1/2010: Western - Schlock Magazine 11/3/2010: lines of (dis)connection - 580 Split 11/10/2010: Haiku Year-In-Review - Broadsided 11/15/2010: Celebrating Black History through Literature: From the Harlem Renaissance Movement to Today - phati'tude Literary Magazine 11/15/2010: Love - Thunderclap Press 11/15/2010: Mapping - Dandelion 11/15/2010: Ripped from the Headlines - Inkwell Journal 11/15/2010: Silence - Halfway Down the Stairs 11/15/2010: Snow/Ice/Winter - Barrier Islands Review 11/15/2010: So This Is Growing Up - Through This Window 11/15/2010: Sustaining - Ruminate 11/15/2010: The Marketplace: An Exchange of Desires and Intentions - Chrysalis Reader, The 11/23/2010: Appetite - Cliterature 11/24/2010: Christmas at Home - Irish's Story Playhouse / StoryTeller Tymes 11/24/2010: Winter Warmers - Irish's Story Playhouse / StoryTeller Tymes 11/30/2010: Belief - Writer's Block, The 11/30/2010: Belief - Hip Mama 11/30/2010: Blue collar family life - Blast Furnace Press 11/30/2010: Boundaries - Barely South Review 11/30/2010: Prayer - Thirty First Bird Review, The 11/30/2010: Winter's Light & First Snow - apparatus magazine 11/30/2010: Young adult Canadian speculative fiction - Tesseracts *Responses*: Too many responses have been reported since the last newsletter for us to list them here. See the full list on our What's New?page. Please report your responses to us! -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jjeffreymail at yahoo.com Sun Oct 31 09:37:55 2010 From: jjeffreymail at yahoo.com (John Jeffrey) Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2010 06:37:55 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Parts of Speech Question In-Reply-To: <4CCD74E0.3030203@nut-n-but.net> References: <8CD45BED2A6C835-1BA8-134@webmail-d076.sysops.aol.com><400850.4 5245.qm@web120504.mail.ne1.yahoo.com><4CCCCD58.7020307@nut-n-but.net><806397.19371.qm@web120519.mail.ne1.yahoo.com><4CCD446E.90 704@nut-n-but.net> <4CCD74E0.3030203@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <875080.45701.qm@web120504.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Bob, I know you're getting lots of votes for adjectival participle, but don't let the masses sway you...yet. And I know that "spoken" looks like it should be a participle (in most instances the word probably does work as a participle), but (to me) a participle includes the implication of verbal tendencies. Once the word loses all those tendencies, then, bah!, no more participle. Just because it looks like a verb and acts as an adjective does not a participle make. T'ain't that easy. How about words with careers as both nouns and verbs? How about "paint," for instance? Take the word "painted" in this sentence: A painted lady sells painted turtles from a painted brick building near the painted desert. Are all those instances of painted participles? I say no. (Ultimately, the problem is that there is no single definition of participle.) John ________________________________ From: Bob Grumman To: NewPoetry List Sent: Sun, October 31, 2010 9:53:36 AM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Parts of Speech Question On 10/31/2010 6:18 AM, Anny Ballardini wrote: > Adjectival participle I'm disappointed--now I can't give it a name. I was thinking "adjicule." Mr. Taxonomy _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sun Oct 31 11:09:45 2010 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2010 10:09:45 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Parts of Speech Question In-Reply-To: References: <8CD45BED2A6C835-1BA8-134@webmail-d076.sysops.aol.com><4CCCCD58 .7020307@nut-n-but.net><806397.19371.qm@web120519.mail.ne1.yahoo.com><4CCD74E0.3030203@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <4CCD86B9.5060205@nut-n-but.net> On 10/31/2010 8:04 AM, Anny Ballardini wrote: > adjipartiple > > sounds not too bad Gotta admit, I like it better than mine. --Bob From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sun Oct 31 11:15:00 2010 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2010 10:15:00 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Parts of Speech Question In-Reply-To: <875080.45701.qm@web120504.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <8CD45BED2A6C835-1BA8-134@webmail-d076.sysops.aol.com><400850.4 5245.qm@web120504.mail.ne1.yahoo.com><4CCCCD58.7020307@nut-n-but.net><806397.19371.qm@web120519.mail.ne1.yahoo.com><4CCD446E.90 704@nut-n-but.net><4CCD74E0.3030203@nut-n-but.net> <875080.45701.qm@web120504.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4CCD87F4.6060802@nut-n-but.net> On 10/31/2010 8:37 AM, John Jeffrey wrote: > Bob, > > I know you're getting lots of votes for adjectival participle, but > don't let the masses sway you...yet. John, I think I'll be content to know I can call it either adjective or participle and not get condemned as a total idiot. Anyway, it's provoked my kind of fun of discussion. And, wow, no one has denounced anyone else . . . yet! --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Sun Oct 31 11:02:43 2010 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2010 16:02:43 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Parts of Speech Question In-Reply-To: <4CCD86B9.5060205@nut-n-but.net> References: <8CD45BED2A6C835-1BA8-134@webmail-d076.sysops.aol.com> <806397.19371.qm@web120519.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <4CCD74E0.3030203@nut-n-but.net> <4CCD86B9.5060205@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: you're a sportsman! On Sun, Oct 31, 2010 at 4:09 PM, Bob Grumman wrote: > On 10/31/2010 8:04 AM, Anny Ballardini wrote: > >> adjipartiple >> >> sounds not too bad >> > > > Gotta admit, I like it better than mine. > > --Bob > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From junction at earthlink.net Sun Oct 31 11:23:26 2010 From: junction at earthlink.net (Mark Weiss) Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2010 11:23:26 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Parts of Speech Question In-Reply-To: <4CCD87F4.6060802@nut-n-but.net> References: <8CD45BED2A6C835-1BA8-134@webmail-d076.sysops.aol.com> <400850.4 5245.qm@web120504.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <4CCCCD58.7020307@nut-n-but.net> <806397.19371.qm@web120519.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <4CCD446E.90 704@nut-n-but.net> <4CCD74E0.3030203@nut-n-but.net> <875080.45701.qm@web120504.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <4CCD87F4.6060802@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: This discussion reminds me of the time when I ased a more knowledgeable friend if the moon was in the same phase everywhere on a given day. His jaw dropped with astonishment. At 11:15 AM 10/31/2010, you wrote: >On 10/31/2010 8:37 AM, John Jeffrey wrote: >>Bob, >> >>I know you're getting lots of votes for >>adjectival participle, but don't let the masses sway you...yet. > >John, I think I'll be content to know I can call >it either adjective or participle and not get >condemned as a total idiot. Anyway, it's >provoked my kind of fun of discussion. And, >wow, no one has denounced anyone else . . . yet! > >--Bob >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry New from Chax Press: Mark Weiss, As Landscape. $16. Order from http://www.chax.org/poets/weiss.htm "What a beautiful set of circumstances! What a lovely concatenation of particulars. Here is the poet alive in every sense of the word, and through every one of his senses. Instead of missing a beat or a part, Weiss? fragments are like Chekhov?s short stories?the more that gets left out, the more they seem to contain One can hear echoes from all the various ancestors...[but] the voice, at its center, its core, is pure Mark Weiss. His use of the fragment is both elegant and bafflingly clear, a pure musical threnody [it] opens a window, not only into a mind, but a person, a personality, this human figure at the emotional center of the poem." M.G. Stephens, in Jacket. http://jacketmagazine.com/40/r-weiss-rb-stephens.shtml -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Sun Oct 31 12:29:56 2010 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2010 17:29:56 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] 2012 and the end of the world Message-ID: -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 2012-small-1.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 25885 bytes Desc: not available URL: From robin.hamilton3 at virginmedia.com Sun Oct 31 13:36:07 2010 From: robin.hamilton3 at virginmedia.com (Robin Hamilton) Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2010 17:36:07 -0000 Subject: [New-Poetry] Parts of Speech Question In-Reply-To: <4CCD446E.90704@nut-n-but.net> References: <8CD45BED2A6C835-1BA8-134@webmail-d076.sysops.aol.com><4CCCC4E4.4070401@nut-n-but.net><400850.45245.qm@web120504.mail.ne1.yahoo.com><4CCCCD58.7020307@nut-n-but.net><806397.19371.qm@web120519.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <4CCD446E.90704@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: Considering Bob's question, and the points made by Jeffrey, I realised that I was uncomfortable about this whole business of adjectival particles or whatever, for two reasons -- one is that it seems to me to stink of the imposition of Latin grammar onto English, and the other being that I'm not sure (to come round to Bob's point about classification) that this particular category is necessary. First thing I did was to wonder how the OED classified "taut", meaning 'firm, tense', formed from the past participle form of "tight". Uh ... well ... OED classifies it as an adjective plain and simple, but doesn't connect it to "tight", while it classifies "tightened" as a participial adjective. Firmly suppressing the impulse to check the declension table for Old English "*t?ohan" and "tigan", it occurred to me to wonder how M.A.K.Halliday and Systemic Functional Linguistics deal with the question. Accordingly, I googled , and the second hit was Gordon Howard Tucker, _The lexicogrammar of adjectives: a systemic functional approach_ (1998). A search inside this text for "participle" gives only two hits, the more relevant one on page 152, beginning: "Insufficient criteria, and the resulting inconsistency of lexicographers, affects word class assignment in peripheral cases ... " Full quotation and context at: http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=LP-EMMgV9SEC&pg=PA60&lpg=PA60&dq=halliday+adjective&source=bl&ots=FuqozAQR7K&sig=s9kNRbw5HVW6PB39pGZedxz92ks&hl=en&ei=bZ7NTLPvJZH_4Aa2yqnEDQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=2&ved=0CBkQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=participle&f=false Basically, it would seem that Systemic Functional Grammarians aren't that interested in classifying English words in terms of Latin and Greek lexis and syntax, and when it comes to adjectives, work on the principle that if it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, waddles when it walks, and has feathers, it probably *is a duck. However, it's entirely possible that I have this entirely wrong. But at least it gives me an excuse to open my copy of M.A.K.Halliday's _Introduction to Functional Linguistics_ and see what he himself has to say about the issue. Which I shall do now. Robin (Riddle: When is a participial adjective not a participial adjective? When it's in Australia. -- alluding to how the only place where Halliday's Systemic Functional Linguistics is treated seriously is in Australia. How (and why) M.A.K.Halliday managed to virtually take over the Australian linguistic and associated (media studies, literary theory) establishment is another story, and quite heartwarming if you don't think that Noam Chomsky is the Final Word when it comes to linguistics. R.) -----Original Message----- From: Bob Grumman Sent: Sunday, October 31, 2010 10:26 AM To: NewPoetry List Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Parts of Speech Question John's mention of taxonomy in this discussion of parts of speech made me wonder about the taxonomy of parts of speech. Are there any words in the English whose part of speech stumps the experts--or is the taxonomy of parts of speech secure? --Bob _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Sun Oct 31 14:15:30 2010 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2010 19:15:30 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] another toot Message-ID: >From Mark Young's Gamma Way: http://mhcyoung.blogspot.com/2010/11/issue-19-of-otoliths-is-now-live.html A tough issue, I love Nico Vassilakis' cover drawing. and the direct link to the issue: http://the-otolith.blogspot.com/ -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sun Oct 31 16:02:50 2010 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2010 15:02:50 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Parts of Speech Question In-Reply-To: References: <8CD45BED2A6C835-1BA8-134@webmail-d076.sysops.aol.com><4CCCC4E4 .4070401@nut-n-but.net><400850.45245.qm@web120504.mail.ne1.yahoo.com><4CCCCD58.7020307@nut-n-but.net><806397.19371.qm@web120519 .mail.ne1.yahoo.com><4CCD446E.90704@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <4CCDCB6A.8090808@nut-n-but.net> Robin, I don't care about Greek/Roman whatever, but find it fun that there are different kinds of adjectives. And of other parts of speech. --Bob From junction at earthlink.net Sun Oct 31 16:40:35 2010 From: junction at earthlink.net (Mark Weiss) Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2010 16:40:35 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Halloween Weekend, ephemeral anthology In-Reply-To: References: <8CD45BED2A6C835-1BA8-134@webmail-d076.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: Two from today. IN COSTUME The tattooed lady dreams of her newborn adorned with pictures--a rose, perhaps, grows from its navel, and its vulva-- its vulva!-- is a pair of lips. Think of the vines that climb its thighs topped by the sprays of wisteria that fall from its breasts. FOR HALLOWE'EN The dogs are dressed as dogs and the asters asters and the leaves and the trees around them in all their glory. Ineffable, as when she enters the room and you can't imagine it. Such were Eve and Hellen, and it took a god to prompt them. New from Chax Press: Mark Weiss, As Landscape. $16. Order from http://www.chax.org/poets/weiss.htm "What a beautiful set of circumstances! What a lovely concatenation of particulars. Here is the poet alive in every sense of the word, and through every one of his senses. Instead of missing a beat or a part, Weiss? fragments are like Chekhov?s short stories?the more that gets left out, the more they seem to contain One can hear echoes from all the various ancestors...[but] the voice, at its center, its core, is pure Mark Weiss. His use of the fragment is both elegant and bafflingly clear, a pure musical threnody [it] opens a window, not only into a mind, but a person, a personality, this human figure at the emotional center of the poem." M.G. Stephens, in Jacket. http://jacketmagazine.com/40/r-weiss-rb-stephens.shtml -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Sun Oct 31 16:48:03 2010 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2010 21:48:03 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Parts of Speech Question In-Reply-To: References: <8CD45BED2A6C835-1BA8-134@webmail-d076.sysops.aol.com> <4CCCC4E4.4070401@nut-n-but.net> <400850.45245.qm@web120504.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <4CCCCD58.7020307@nut-n-but.net> <806397.19371.qm@web120519.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <4CCD446E.90704@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: Ah Robin, so sorry but I need to dismantle one of your statements! Halliday took over also Italy, that is a book I almost know by heart, also this one. Yes, the same Australian Halliday. On Sun, Oct 31, 2010 at 6:36 PM, Robin Hamilton < robin.hamilton3 at virginmedia.com> wrote: > Considering Bob's question, and the points made by Jeffrey, I realised that > I was uncomfortable about this whole business of adjectival particles or > whatever, for two reasons -- one is that it seems to me to stink of the > imposition of Latin grammar onto English, and the other being that I'm not > sure (to come round to Bob's point about classification) that this > particular category is necessary. > > First thing I did was to wonder how the OED classified "taut", meaning > 'firm, tense', formed from the past participle form of "tight". > > Uh ... well ... OED classifies it as an adjective plain and simple, but > doesn't connect it to "tight", while it classifies "tightened" as a > participial adjective. > > Firmly suppressing the impulse to check the declension table for Old > English "*t?ohan" and "tigan", it occurred to me to wonder how > M.A.K.Halliday and Systemic Functional Linguistics deal with the question. > Accordingly, I googled , and the second hit was Gordon > Howard Tucker, _The lexicogrammar of adjectives: a systemic functional > approach_ (1998). > > A search inside this text for "participle" gives only two hits, the more > relevant one on page 152, beginning: > > "Insufficient criteria, and the resulting inconsistency of > lexicographers, affects word class assignment in peripheral cases ... " > > Full quotation and context at: > > > http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=LP-EMMgV9SEC&pg=PA60&lpg=PA60&dq=halliday+adjective&source=bl&ots=FuqozAQR7K&sig=s9kNRbw5HVW6PB39pGZedxz92ks&hl=en&ei=bZ7NTLPvJZH_4Aa2yqnEDQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=2&ved=0CBkQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=participle&f=false > > Basically, it would seem that Systemic Functional Grammarians aren't that > interested in classifying English words in terms of Latin and Greek lexis > and syntax, and when it comes to adjectives, work on the principle that if > it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, waddles when it walks, and has > feathers, it probably *is a duck. > > However, it's entirely possible that I have this entirely wrong. But at > least it gives me an excuse to open my copy of M.A.K.Halliday's > _Introduction to Functional Linguistics_ and see what he himself has to say > about the issue. > > Which I shall do now. > > Robin > > (Riddle: > > When is a participial adjective not a participial adjective? > When it's in Australia. > > -- alluding to how the only place where Halliday's Systemic Functional > Linguistics is treated seriously is in Australia. How (and why) > M.A.K.Halliday managed to virtually take over the Australian linguistic and > associated (media studies, literary theory) establishment is another story, > and quite heartwarming if you don't think that Noam Chomsky is the Final > Word when it comes to linguistics. > > R.) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- From: Bob Grumman > Sent: Sunday, October 31, 2010 10:26 AM > To: NewPoetry List > > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Parts of Speech Question > > John's mention of taxonomy in this discussion of parts of speech made me > wonder about the taxonomy of parts of speech. Are there any words in > the English whose part of speech stumps the experts--or is the taxonomy > of parts of speech secure? > > --Bob > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From robin.hamilton3 at virginmedia.com Sun Oct 31 17:41:28 2010 From: robin.hamilton3 at virginmedia.com (Robin Hamilton) Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2010 21:41:28 -0000 Subject: [New-Poetry] Parts of Speech Question In-Reply-To: References: <8CD45BED2A6C835-1BA8-134@webmail-d076.sysops.aol.com><4CCCC4E4.4070401@nut-n-but.net><400850.45245.qm@web120504.mail.ne1.yahoo.com><4CCCCD58.7020307@nut-n-but.net><806397.19371.qm@web120519.mail.ne1.yahoo.com><4CCD446E.90704@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <5041E10BD9534AE0946B92A2E98F6287@OwnerPC> Ah Robin, so sorry but I need to dismantle one of your statements! Halliday took over also Italy, that is a book I almost know by heart, also this one. Yes, the same Australian Halliday. That?s brilliant, Anny!!! So it?s not just Australia ... Coincidentally, I was reading, between sending my previous post and seeing your reply, an article by the Italian linguist Maurizio Gotti on ?The origin of 17th Century canting terms?, and he not only mentions Halliday and cites ?Anti-Languages and Anti-Societies?, but also notes an article by Lee Beier that?s about the only other place that *does mention Halliday in this area. Weirdly enough, that article by Halliday is much bigger in the field of early biblical textual scholarship (on the Dead Sea Scrolls and the Johannine Gospel) than it is in the field of cant studies. So then, to Australia, add Italy. Nice to know. (I wish that I could find something positive to say about Gotti?s work on English cant, but other than that he at least notices Halliday?s work, my feelings about his scholarship go well beyond the libellous into the area of the unprintable!) Best, Robin _________________________________________ On Sun, Oct 31, 2010 at 6:36 PM, Robin Hamilton wrote: Considering Bob's question, and the points made by Jeffrey, I realised that I was uncomfortable about this whole business of adjectival particles or whatever, for two reasons -- one is that it seems to me to stink of the imposition of Latin grammar onto English, and the other being that I'm not sure (to come round to Bob's point about classification) that this particular category is necessary. First thing I did was to wonder how the OED classified "taut", meaning 'firm, tense', formed from the past participle form of "tight". Uh ... well ... OED classifies it as an adjective plain and simple, but doesn't connect it to "tight", while it classifies "tightened" as a participial adjective. Firmly suppressing the impulse to check the declension table for Old English "*t?ohan" and "tigan", it occurred to me to wonder how M.A.K.Halliday and Systemic Functional Linguistics deal with the question. Accordingly, I googled , and the second hit was Gordon Howard Tucker, _The lexicogrammar of adjectives: a systemic functional approach_ (1998). A search inside this text for "participle" gives only two hits, the more relevant one on page 152, beginning: "Insufficient criteria, and the resulting inconsistency of lexicographers, affects word class assignment in peripheral cases ... " Full quotation and context at: http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=LP-EMMgV9SEC&pg=PA60&lpg=PA60&dq=halliday+adjective&source=bl&ots=FuqozAQR7K&sig=s9kNRbw5HVW6PB39pGZedxz92ks&hl=en&ei=bZ7NTLPvJZH_4Aa2yqnEDQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=2&ved=0CBkQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=participle&f=false Basically, it would seem that Systemic Functional Grammarians aren't that interested in classifying English words in terms of Latin and Greek lexis and syntax, and when it comes to adjectives, work on the principle that if it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, waddles when it walks, and has feathers, it probably *is a duck. However, it's entirely possible that I have this entirely wrong. But at least it gives me an excuse to open my copy of M.A.K.Halliday's _Introduction to Functional Linguistics_ and see what he himself has to say about the issue. Which I shall do now. Robin (Riddle: When is a participial adjective not a participial adjective? When it's in Australia. -- alluding to how the only place where Halliday's Systemic Functional Linguistics is treated seriously is in Australia. How (and why) M.A.K.Halliday managed to virtually take over the Australian linguistic and associated (media studies, literary theory) establishment is another story, and quite heartwarming if you don't think that Noam Chomsky is the Final Word when it comes to linguistics. R.) -----Original Message----- From: Bob Grumman Sent: Sunday, October 31, 2010 10:26 AM To: NewPoetry List Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Parts of Speech Question John's mention of taxonomy in this discussion of parts of speech made me wonder about the taxonomy of parts of speech. Are there any words in the English whose part of speech stumps the experts--or is the taxonomy of parts of speech secure? --Bob _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Sun Oct 31 18:38:50 2010 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2010 23:38:50 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Parts of Speech Question In-Reply-To: <5041E10BD9534AE0946B92A2E98F6287@OwnerPC> References: <8CD45BED2A6C835-1BA8-134@webmail-d076.sysops.aol.com> <4CCCC4E4.4070401@nut-n-but.net> <400850.45245.qm@web120504.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <4CCCCD58.7020307@nut-n-but.net> <806397.19371.qm@web120519.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <4CCD446E.90704@nut-n-but.net> <5041E10BD9534AE0946B92A2E98F6287@OwnerPC> Message-ID: I should consider myself lucky then, that I do not know Gotti, and will avoid him - as they say in Italy - *like the plague*... A good evening to you up there in England. On Sun, Oct 31, 2010 at 10:41 PM, Robin Hamilton < robin.hamilton3 at virginmedia.com> wrote: > Ah Robin, so sorry but I need to dismantle one of your > statements! Halliday took over also Italy, that is a book I almost know by > heart, also this one. Yes, the same Australian Halliday. > > That?s brilliant, Anny!!! So it?s not just Australia ... > > Coincidentally, I was reading, between sending my previous post and > seeing your reply, an article by the Italian linguist Maurizio Gotti on ?The > origin of 17th Century canting terms?, and he not only mentions Halliday and > cites ?Anti-Languages and Anti-Societies?, but also notes an article by Lee > Beier that?s about the only other place that *does mention Halliday in this > area. > > Weirdly enough, that article by Halliday is much bigger in the field of > early biblical textual scholarship (on the Dead Sea Scrolls and the > Johannine Gospel) than it is in the field of cant studies. > > So then, to Australia, add Italy. Nice to know. > > (I wish that I could find something positive to say about Gotti?s work on > English cant, but other than that he at least notices Halliday?s work, my > feelings about his scholarship go well beyond the libellous into the area of > the unprintable!) > > Best, > > Robin > > _________________________________________ > On Sun, Oct 31, 2010 at 6:36 PM, Robin Hamilton < > robin.hamilton3 at virginmedia.com> wrote: > >> Considering Bob's question, and the points made by Jeffrey, I realised >> that I was uncomfortable about this whole business of adjectival particles >> or whatever, for two reasons -- one is that it seems to me to stink of the >> imposition of Latin grammar onto English, and the other being that I'm not >> sure (to come round to Bob's point about classification) that this >> particular category is necessary. >> >> First thing I did was to wonder how the OED classified "taut", meaning >> 'firm, tense', formed from the past participle form of "tight". >> >> Uh ... well ... OED classifies it as an adjective plain and simple, but >> doesn't connect it to "tight", while it classifies "tightened" as a >> participial adjective. >> >> Firmly suppressing the impulse to check the declension table for Old >> English "*t?ohan" and "tigan", it occurred to me to wonder how >> M.A.K.Halliday and Systemic Functional Linguistics deal with the question. >> Accordingly, I googled , and the second hit was Gordon >> Howard Tucker, _The lexicogrammar of adjectives: a systemic functional >> approach_ (1998). >> >> A search inside this text for "participle" gives only two hits, the more >> relevant one on page 152, beginning: >> >> "Insufficient criteria, and the resulting inconsistency of >> lexicographers, affects word class assignment in peripheral cases ... " >> >> Full quotation and context at: >> >> >> http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=LP-EMMgV9SEC&pg=PA60&lpg=PA60&dq=halliday+adjective&source=bl&ots=FuqozAQR7K&sig=s9kNRbw5HVW6PB39pGZedxz92ks&hl=en&ei=bZ7NTLPvJZH_4Aa2yqnEDQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=2&ved=0CBkQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=participle&f=false >> >> Basically, it would seem that Systemic Functional Grammarians aren't that >> interested in classifying English words in terms of Latin and Greek lexis >> and syntax, and when it comes to adjectives, work on the principle that if >> it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, waddles when it walks, and has >> feathers, it probably *is a duck. >> >> However, it's entirely possible that I have this entirely wrong. But at >> least it gives me an excuse to open my copy of M.A.K.Halliday's >> _Introduction to Functional Linguistics_ and see what he himself has to say >> about the issue. >> >> Which I shall do now. >> >> Robin >> >> (Riddle: >> >> When is a participial adjective not a participial adjective? >> When it's in Australia. >> >> -- alluding to how the only place where Halliday's Systemic Functional >> Linguistics is treated seriously is in Australia. How (and why) >> M.A.K.Halliday managed to virtually take over the Australian linguistic and >> associated (media studies, literary theory) establishment is another story, >> and quite heartwarming if you don't think that Noam Chomsky is the Final >> Word when it comes to linguistics. >> >> R.) >> >> >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- From: Bob Grumman >> Sent: Sunday, October 31, 2010 10:26 AM >> To: NewPoetry List >> >> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Parts of Speech Question >> >> John's mention of taxonomy in this discussion of parts of speech made me >> wonder about the taxonomy of parts of speech. Are there any words in >> the English whose part of speech stumps the experts--or is the taxonomy >> of parts of speech secure? >> >> --Bob >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> > > > > -- > Anny Ballardini > http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ > http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome > http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 > http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html > I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing > star! > Friedrich Nietzsche > > ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique > vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? > Giovenale > > ------------------------------ > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From robin.hamilton3 at virginmedia.com Sun Oct 31 19:11:02 2010 From: robin.hamilton3 at virginmedia.com (Robin Hamilton) Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2010 23:11:02 -0000 Subject: [New-Poetry] Parts of Speech Question In-Reply-To: References: <8CD45BED2A6C835-1BA8-134@webmail-d076.sysops.aol.com><4CCCC4E4.4070401@nut-n-but.net><400850.45245.qm@web120504.mail.ne1.yahoo.com><4CCCCD58.7020307@nut-n-but.net><806397.19371.qm@web120519.mail.ne1.yahoo.com><4CCD446E.90704@nut-n-but.net><5041E10BD9534AE0946B92A2E98F6287@OwnerPC> Message-ID: <1D1225C3319E49148040A1AEBEF5AB02@OwnerPC> I should consider myself lucky then, that I do not know Gotti, and will avoid him - as they say in Italy - like the plague... A good evening to you up there in England. Have a look at this, Anny. You might have more context to judge it than I have, since it?s one Italian linguist on another Italian linguist, and there may be a subtext I?m not getting: http://www.justbookreviews.net/Gotti.html I thought this was a bit over the top when I first read it some time ago (and Pacitti certainly has an axe to grind, and not just when it comes to Gotti) but the more I read of Gotti?s work, the more I?m inclined to agree. ?Shoddy scholarship? doesn?t begin to describe it. Robin (I wish that I could find something positive to say about Gotti?s work on English cant, but other than that he at least notices Halliday?s work, my feelings about his scholarship go well beyond the libellous into the area of the unprintable!) Best, Robin _________________________________________ On Sun, Oct 31, 2010 at 6:36 PM, Robin Hamilton wrote: Considering Bob's question, and the points made by Jeffrey, I realised that I was uncomfortable about this whole business of adjectival particles or whatever, for two reasons -- one is that it seems to me to stink of the imposition of Latin grammar onto English, and the other being that I'm not sure (to come round to Bob's point about classification) that this particular category is necessary. First thing I did was to wonder how the OED classified "taut", meaning 'firm, tense', formed from the past participle form of "tight". -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: