From jforjames at aol.com Wed Dec 1 19:00:18 2010 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Wed, 01 Dec 2010 19:00:18 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Will the real Shakespear (sp?) please stand up (the movie) Message-ID: <8CD5FCB0A41227E-EB0-4430@webmail-d034.sysops.aol.com> http://perpetualbird.blogspot.com/2010/12/nothing-is-truer-than-truth-update.html -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Wed Dec 1 21:37:33 2010 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Wed, 01 Dec 2010 21:37:33 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Will the real Shakespear (sp?) please stand up (themovie) In-Reply-To: <8CD5FCB0A41227E-EB0-4430@webmail-d034.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CD5FCB0A41227E-EB0-4430@webmail-d034.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <4CF7066D.7030201@nut-n-but.net> If you think I'm intemperate about the poetry establishment, James, don't get me going on the idiots who believe someone other than Shakespeare wrote the plays attributed to him. --Bob From jjeffreymail at yahoo.com Wed Dec 1 22:25:19 2010 From: jjeffreymail at yahoo.com (John Jeffrey) Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2010 19:25:19 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] Will the real Shakespear (sp?) please stand up (themovie) In-Reply-To: <4CF7066D.7030201@nut-n-but.net> References: <8CD5FCB0A41227E-EB0-4430@webmail-d034.sysops.aol.com> <4CF7066D.7030201@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <545627.19837.qm@web120507.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Actually, it was someone other than Bill. It was me. Though I was much younger then. Verily. ________________________________ From: Bob Grumman To: NewPoetry List Sent: Wed, December 1, 2010 9:37:33 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Will the real Shakespear (sp?) please stand up (themovie) If you think I'm intemperate about the poetry establishment, James, don't get me going on the idiots who believe someone other than Shakespeare wrote the plays attributed to him. --Bob _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Rsgwynn1 at cs.com Wed Dec 1 22:53:21 2010 From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com (Rsgwynn1 at cs.com) Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2010 22:53:21 EST Subject: [New-Poetry] Will the real Shakespear (sp?) please stand up (themovie) Message-ID: <13fb5.1ea47fce.3a287231@cs.com> In a message dated 12/1/2010 8:33:56 PM Central Standard Time, bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net writes: > > If you think I'm intemperate about the poetry establishment, James, > don't get me going on the idiots who believe someone other than > Shakespeare wrote the plays attributed to him. > > --Bob I always thought somebody named Shaxberd wrote them . . . -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Thu Dec 2 06:17:23 2010 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Thu, 02 Dec 2010 06:17:23 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Will the real Shakespear (sp?) please stand up(themovie) In-Reply-To: <13fb5.1ea47fce.3a287231@cs.com> References: <13fb5.1ea47fce.3a287231@cs.com> Message-ID: <4CF78043.7020005@nut-n-but.net> On 12/1/2010 10:53 PM, Rsgwynn1 at cs.com wrote: > In a message dated 12/1/2010 8:33:56 PM Central Standard Time, > bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net writes: >> >> If you think I'm intemperate about the poetry establishment, James, >> don't get me going on the idiots who believe someone other than >> Shakespeare wrote the plays attributed to him. >> >> --Bob > > > I always thought somebody named Shaxberd wrote them . . . He only wrote one of them! --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From robin.hamilton3 at virginmedia.com Thu Dec 2 09:25:37 2010 From: robin.hamilton3 at virginmedia.com (Robin Hamilton) Date: Thu, 2 Dec 2010 14:25:37 -0000 Subject: [New-Poetry] Will the real Shakespear (sp?) please standup(themovie) In-Reply-To: <4CF78043.7020005@nut-n-but.net> References: <13fb5.1ea47fce.3a287231@cs.com> <4CF78043.7020005@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <4F6A0ACF2139435EA361606AD5E8BF0F@OwnerPC> On 12/1/2010 10:53 PM, Rsgwynn1 at cs.com wrote: In a message dated 12/1/2010 8:33:56 PM Central Standard Time, bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net writes: If you think I'm intemperate about the poetry establishment, James, don't get me going on the idiots who believe someone other than Shakespeare wrote the plays attributed to him. --Bob I always thought somebody named Shaxberd wrote them . . . He only wrote one of them! --Bob Henry IX?? Robin {{ Crude Joke: Burbage [knocking on bedroom door] ? ??Tis I, Richard the Third.? Shakespeare [from a bed] ? ?William the Conqueror got here first.? [context withheld] R. }} -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Thu Dec 2 12:12:18 2010 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Thu, 2 Dec 2010 18:12:18 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] No tells Message-ID: I suggested Evelyn Posamentier's work: http://notellpoetry.blogspot.com/search/label/best%20books%202010 -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jschickl at hotmail.com Thu Dec 2 12:15:22 2010 From: jschickl at hotmail.com (Jared Schickling) Date: Thu, 2 Dec 2010 10:15:22 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Will the real Shakespear (sp?) please stand up (themovie) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: clifford de hory. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Thu Dec 2 12:32:50 2010 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Thu, 02 Dec 2010 12:32:50 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Will the real Shakespear (sp?) pleasestandup(themovie) In-Reply-To: <4F6A0ACF2139435EA361606AD5E8BF0F@OwnerPC> References: <13fb5.1ea47fce.3a287231@cs.com> <4CF78043.7020005@nut-n-but.net> <4F6A0ACF2139435EA361606AD5E8BF0F@OwnerPC> Message-ID: <4CF7D842.6010404@nut-n-but.net> On 12/2/2010 9:25 AM, Robin Hamilton wrote: > On 12/1/2010 10:53 PM, Rsgwynn1 at cs.comwrote: >> In a message dated 12/1/2010 8:33:56 PM Central Standard Time, >> bobgrumman at nut-n-but.netwrites: >>> >>> If you think I'm intemperate about the poetry establishment, James, >>> don't get me going on the idiots who believe someone other than >>> Shakespeare wrote the plays attributed to him. >>> >>> --Bob >> >> >> I always thought somebody named Shaxberd wrote them . . . > > He only wrote one of them! > > --Bob > / Henry IX??/ > Nah. The Seventeenth Earl of Oxford wrote that one. I think the Registrars Office has the name of the one Shaxberd wrote, but I can't remember what it was. I only remember that it was a lot better than anything Shakespeare ever wrote. --Bob > Robin > {{ Crude Joke: > Burbage [knocking on bedroom door] ? ??Tis I, Richard the > Third.? > Shakespeare [from a bed] ? ?William the > Conqueror got here first.? > [context withheld] > R. }} Off-Topic, Off-Topic! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Thu Dec 2 12:36:47 2010 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Thu, 2 Dec 2010 18:36:47 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] wwno Message-ID: http://www.publicbroadcasting.net/wwno/news.newsmain/article/0/6589/1731661/WWNO.Arts.Features/The.Reading.Life..11-30-10 Susan Larson, and among others, Bill Lavender -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Thu Dec 2 12:47:21 2010 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Thu, 2 Dec 2010 18:47:21 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Some Geographies by Mark Young Message-ID: The new ebook from Argotist Ebooks is ?Some Geographies? by Mark Young Description: "These pieces by Mark Young have a disturbing and comic speed, and seem, as a group, to get at some essential weirdness of the 'global' info-capitalist culture we're all trying to survive and live in." Sam Lohmann (editor of ?Peaches & Bats?) Available as a free ebook here: http://www.lulu.com/product/ebook/some-geographies/14006389 -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From amyhappens at yahoo.com Thu Dec 2 23:11:04 2010 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king) Date: Thu, 2 Dec 2010 20:11:04 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] OT: "From the Larynx" -- Interview with Anne Waldman on VIDA Message-ID: <198615.292.qm@web83304.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Poet Anne Waldman -- http://vidaweb.org/vida-interview-with-anne-waldman-?from-the-larynx? Enjoy, Amy ********* VIDA: Women in Literary Arts + Interviews Amy's Alias + http://amyking.org/ ******** -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From amyhappens at yahoo.com Thu Dec 2 23:22:07 2010 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king) Date: Thu, 2 Dec 2010 20:22:07 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] Poet Face Lift Message-ID: <544956.28612.qm@web83306.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Ana Bozicevic revamped my site - http://www.amyking.org I told her she should start designing poets' sites for a reasonable price, no? Enjoy, Amy ********* VIDA: Women in Literary Arts + Interviews Amy's Alias + http://amyking.org/ ******** -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Fri Dec 3 14:48:22 2010 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Fri, 03 Dec 2010 14:48:22 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] AROHO In-Reply-To: <198615.292.qm@web83304.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: <198615.292.qm@web83304.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <8CD613A2D52C90D-1650-843D@Webmail-d103.sysops.aol.com> I know VIDA is doing a lot good things for women poets and writers. A couple weeks ago I went to a lecture on Sylvia Plath by Dana Levin. It was held at Smith College and it was co-sponsored by Smith and the 'A Room Of Her Own organization. I was not familiar with AROHO http://www.aroomofherown.org/ Looks like they have various events and initiatives focused on supporting women writers Finnegan PS: The Plath lecture was good and Levin is a very engaging speaker. I was one of two men in the room of 50 or so. (The other male was my poet friend, whom I'd invited to come along with me to the event. Smith, of course, is all women's college...but there was good publicity for the lecture, and I just seemed strange to me that a few more guys in that highly concentrated literary/academic community of the Northampton/Amherst area weren't in attendance. Turns out the Plath lecture Dana Levin delivered was a slightly updated version of this piece from APR... https://www.aprweb.org/article/heroics-style-part-one -----Original Message----- From: amy king To: Women's Poetry Listserve ; NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views ; UB Poetics discussion group Sent: Thu, Dec 2, 2010 11:11 pm Subject: [New-Poetry] OT: "From the Larynx" -- Interview with Anne Waldman on VIDA Poet Anne Waldman -- http://vidaweb.org/vida-interview-with-anne-waldman-?from-the-larynx? Enjoy, Amy ********* VIDA: Women in Literary Arts + Interviews Amy's Alias + http://amyking.org/ ******** _______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Fri Dec 3 15:16:46 2010 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Fri, 03 Dec 2010 15:16:46 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Dylan Thomas prize Message-ID: <8CD613E24CEAF05-1650-8B0F@Webmail-d103.sysops.aol.com> Dylan Thomas prize goes to young U.S. poet Last Updated: Thursday, December 2, 2010 | 1:10 PM ET A young U.S. poet is the third winner of the fledgling Dylan Thomas Prize, for a poetry collection inspired by the long-distance missives she shared with her Army medic husband while he served in Iraq. Elyse Fenton, 29, was named the 2010 winner of the ?30,000 (about $47,000 Cdn) prize for her poetry collection Clamor on Wednesday at a ceremony in Swansea, Wales ? the home of namesake writer Thomas. Read more: http://www.cbc.ca/arts/books/story/2010/12/02/thomas-prize-poet-us-fenton-war.html#ixzz1757pbguQ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From c.a.b.daly at gmail.com Fri Dec 3 15:37:15 2010 From: c.a.b.daly at gmail.com (Catherine Daly) Date: Fri, 3 Dec 2010 12:37:15 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] AROHO In-Reply-To: <8CD613A2D52C90D-1650-843D@Webmail-d103.sysops.aol.com> References: <198615.292.qm@web83304.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <8CD613A2D52C90D-1650-843D@Webmail-d103.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: Reading the new web site does explain more about what is, to me, a troubling conflation of Virginia Woolf, exactly the type of spiritual practice and belief to which she stood apart from, assumptions that a woman artist would need $50K for a year to write because she doesn't know how to handle or earn money (one must submit tax returns AND submit to financial counselling), and only the platitude and cliche the women's movement. Here's the spiritual content for the application for the big grant: Spiritual aspect?at what level does the applicant?s art represent her spiritual identity and endeavor to further that identity; That's on top of "reflective essays on the applicant's artistic life." What, indeed, is an artistic life if not life viewed through aesthetics? How is an artistic life related to creating works of art -- I would suggest there is no necessary relationship? How come a "reflective essay" rather than something in the *spirit* of Woolf's essays? All best, Catherine Daly From jforjames at aol.com Fri Dec 3 16:08:35 2010 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Fri, 03 Dec 2010 16:08:35 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] C4's Best Po Books 2010 Message-ID: <8CD61456258E0D7-D80-2D52@webmail-d058.sysops.aol.com> http://chamberfour.com/2010/11/15/the-best-books-of-2010-part-2-poetry-edition/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Fri Dec 3 16:24:23 2010 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Fri, 03 Dec 2010 16:24:23 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Armory Show and WS Message-ID: <8CD614796F62BCA-D80-305E@webmail-d058.sysops.aol.com> http://www.oregonlive.com/books/index.ssf/2010/11/poetry_landmark_art_show_inspi.html Poetry: Landmark art show inspires the career of a master poet Published: Saturday, November 20, 2010, 4:00 AM The Armory Show is a signature event in the history of American art and included more than a thousand paintings and sculptures by some 300 avant-garde artists, including George Bellows, Pierre Bonnard, Mary Cassatt, Paul C?zanne, Camille Corot, Marcel Duchamp, Paul Gauguin, Vincent van Gogh, Wassily Kandinsky, ?douard Manet, Henri Matisse, Claude Monet, Pablo Picasso, Camille Pissarro, Joseph Stella and many others. The exhibition rejected landscape, representational and holistic art in favor of interior, abstract and fractured art. It was America's introduction to Modernism. Stevens was undone. Returning to his writing, he filled his notebooks and early poems with gorgeous language, exotic images, expressionistic landscapes, sumptuous music, vivid inventions of consciousness and abstract meditations... -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Fri Dec 3 16:28:09 2010 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Fri, 03 Dec 2010 16:28:09 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poets Theatre Message-ID: <8CD61481DDFA3B1-D80-30FD@webmail-d058.sysops.aol.com> Dramatic dabblers include William Butler Yeats, Wallace Stevens, Gertrude Stein, John Ashbery, Amiri Baraka, Ntozake Shange; it might be easier to list the poets who?ve never written plays. Patrick Durgin, a poet who?s taught at the School of the Art Institute since 2007, made tracing this fringe tradition easier last January when his press, Kenning Editions, published The Kenning Anthology of Poets Theater, 1945?1985, edited by Kevin Killian and David Brazil. To mark the 600-page book, which collects work by Ashbery, Robert Duncan, Barbara Guest and the bulk of the Bay Area?s avant-garde Language writing community, among many others, he?s partnered with the magazine Poetry to present a singular performance. Six local writers?Daniel Borzutzky, Duriel E. Harris, John Keene, Jacob Saenz, Leila Wilson and Tim Yu? will collaborate over this weekend to develop a performance inspired by the anthology. Their Sunday 5 performance at Oracle Theatre will follow a roundtable about the form; I?ll be one of the assembled ruminators. Read more: http://chicago.timeout.com/articles/theater/90769/new-anthology-and-workshop-spotlight-poets-theater#ixzz175Pqsx6b -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Fri Dec 3 16:49:14 2010 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Fri, 03 Dec 2010 16:49:14 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Armory Show and WS In-Reply-To: <8CD614796F62BCA-D80-305E@webmail-d058.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CD614796F62BCA-D80-305E@webmail-d058.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <8CD614B0F955682-1438-29F7@webmail-m096.sysops.aol.com> http://www.oregonlive.com/books/index.ssf/2010/11/poetry_landmark_art_show_inspi.html Poetry: Landmark art show inspires the career of a master poet Published: Saturday, November 20, 2010, 4:00 AM The Armory Show is a signature event in the history of American art and included more than a thousand paintings and sculptures by some 300 avant-garde artists, including George Bellows, Pierre Bonnard, Mary Cassatt, Paul C?zanne, Camille Corot, Marcel Duchamp, Paul Gauguin, Vincent van Gogh, Wassily Kandinsky, ?douard Manet, Henri Matisse, Claude Monet, Pablo Picasso, Camille Pissarro, Joseph Stella and many others. The exhibition rejected landscape, representational and holistic art in favor of interior, abstract and fractured art. It was America's introduction to Modernism. Stevens was undone. Returning to his writing, he filled his notebooks and early poems with gorgeous language, exotic images, expressionistic landscapes, sumptuous music, vivid inventions of consciousness and abstract meditations... Poetry: Landmark art show inspires the career of a master poet Published: Saturday, November 20, 2010, 4:00 AM The Armory Show is a signature event in the history of American art and included more than a thousand paintings and sculptures by some 300 avant-garde artists, including George Bellows, Pierre Bonnard, Mary Cassatt, Paul C?zanne, Camille Corot, Marcel Duchamp, Paul Gauguin, Vincent van Gogh, Wassily Kandinsky, ?douard Manet, Henri Matisse, Claude Monet, Pablo Picasso, Camille Pissarro, Joseph Stella and many others. The exhibition rejected landscape, representational and holistic art in favor of interior, abstract and fractured art. It was America's introduction to Modernism. Stevens was undone. Returning to his writing, he filled his notebooks and early poems with gorgeous language, exotic images, expressionistic landscapes, sumptuous music, vivid inventions of consciousness and abstract meditations... -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Fri Dec 3 18:39:15 2010 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Fri, 03 Dec 2010 18:39:15 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] C4's Best Po Books 2010 In-Reply-To: <8CD61456258E0D7-D80-2D52@webmail-d058.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CD61456258E0D7-D80-2D52@webmail-d058.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <4CF97FA3.9090204@nut-n-but.net> On 12/3/2010 4:08 PM, jforjames at aol.com wrote: > http://chamberfour.com/2010/11/15/the-best-books-of-2010-part-2-poetry-edition/ . Go to ants for knowledge of dead leaves, but don't expect to find out much from them about trees. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From millb at aol.com Fri Dec 3 18:47:52 2010 From: millb at aol.com (Millicent) Date: Fri, 03 Dec 2010 18:47:52 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] C4's Best Po Books 2010 In-Reply-To: <4CF97FA3.9090204@nut-n-but.net> References: <8CD61456258E0D7-D80-2D52@webmail-d058.sysops.aol.com> <4CF97FA3.9090204@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <8CD615BA2609C34-1C70-440E@Webmail-m123.sysops.aol.com> Greetings, I have a full-length poetry book, Injuring Eternity due out in the next couple of weeks, and there are review copies available. Since I only have a few copies, before I send them out, I'd just like to make sure that you are a book reviewer (either for a print publication or online that regularly features poetry reviews)-- If you are interested, please backchannel me. Thanks and happy December! Millicent Interview Huffington Post http://www.huffingtonpost.com/laura-baudo-sillerman/millicent-borges-accardi_b_606404.html Here's a sample poem (from Salt River Review) Somewhere Ahead a Man is Waiting He wants to see you But not to talk. He has other Things on his mind: maybe mystery, Maybe evil. There is a road And a broken phone and the shell Of an Enco gas station that closed 30 years ago. This man thinks He knows what is best. This man Imagines himself stronger than you Are, with your lost face and open map Of a mouth. He knows that the signs Are all there but twisted like dead Birds in a storm or a young American Girl who knots her pony tail and then Nibbles on the end. At the dusky Caf?, this man is standing by himself Having given up the right to ordinary Talk with others long ago. He knows What he wants now. He looks at his Shoes. There is a song called by Her name he used to know Before he was alone. The bird Of paradise only blooms when its roots Are crowded. He steps forward. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd at ripon.edu Fri Dec 3 22:22:52 2010 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Fri, 3 Dec 2010 21:22:52 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Snakeskin "Portraits & Self-Portraits" Message-ID: I was asked to guest edit a thematic issue of the English webzine Snakeskin, and the issue has just gone online. The theme is "portraits and self-portraits." Please feel free to take a look at my selections: http://homepages.nildram.co.uk/%7Esimmers/snake171.html Here's a sample poem: Through the Hoof-Dragged Dirt I?m a barricade, a prickly wind, a breathing candelabra, a small, abandoned bed. You?re low tide?s pilings writing the poem ?Boy in a Red Cap Wielding a Stick.? I?m sandwiched between dire and die; you are stop, listen, survive. You?re the wooden fence ? mossy, peeling. I?m a shopping bag, abandon-crammed. You?re the ferry?s rumbling engine. I?m shook up by the black-eyed rat the fly needs so, so badly. You?re grouping the cold, the dark, the cravings. In the cook pot of silent, I heard a gate click shut, heard a fence say please ? a new coat of paint. --Martha Silano ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.me.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jschickl at hotmail.com Fri Dec 3 22:35:32 2010 From: jschickl at hotmail.com (Jared Schickling) Date: Fri, 3 Dec 2010 20:35:32 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Snakeskin "Portraits & Self-Portraits" In-Reply-To: References: , Message-ID: Dear David, That gorgeous sample poem from Martha Silano got me to Josh English's devastating portrait as a husband what a break at the end of the night A million congrats on it. Look forward to spending time with it. Sincerely, Jared > Message: 10 > Date: Fri, 3 Dec 2010 21:22:52 -0600 > From: David Graham > To: "new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu & Views" > > Subject: [New-Poetry] Snakeskin "Portraits & Self-Portraits" > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" > > I was asked to guest edit a thematic issue of the English webzine Snakeskin, and the issue has just gone online. The theme is "portraits and self-portraits." Please feel free to take a look at my selections: > > http://homepages.nildram.co.uk/%7Esimmers/snake171.html > > Here's a sample poem: > > Through the Hoof-Dragged Dirt > > I?m a barricade, a prickly wind, > a breathing candelabra, > a small, abandoned bed. > > You?re low tide?s pilings > writing the poem ?Boy > in a Red Cap Wielding a Stick.? > > I?m sandwiched between dire > and die; you are stop, listen, survive. > You?re the wooden fence ? > > mossy, peeling. I?m a shopping bag, > abandon-crammed. You?re the ferry?s > rumbling engine. I?m shook up > > by the black-eyed rat the fly needs > so, so badly. You?re grouping > the cold, the dark, the cravings. > > In the cook pot of silent, > I heard a gate click shut, heard > a fence say please ? a new coat of paint. > > --Martha Silano > > > > > ======================================== > David Graham > grahamd at ripon.edu > > Home Page: > http://web.me.com/drjazz > > Poetry Library: > http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html > ========================================== > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > End of New-Poetry Digest, Vol 5, Issue 4 > **************************************** -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jschickl at hotmail.com Fri Dec 3 22:34:35 2010 From: jschickl at hotmail.com (Jared Schickling) Date: Fri, 3 Dec 2010 20:34:35 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] New-Poetry Digest, Vol 5, Issue 4 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Dear David, That gorgeous sample poem from Martha Silano got me to Josh English's devastating portrait as a husband what a break at the end of the night A million congrats on it. Look forward to spending time with it. Sincerely, Jared > Message: 10 > Date: Fri, 3 Dec 2010 21:22:52 -0600 > From: David Graham > To: "new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu & Views" > > Subject: [New-Poetry] Snakeskin "Portraits & Self-Portraits" > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" > > I was asked to guest edit a thematic issue of the English webzine Snakeskin, and the issue has just gone online. The theme is "portraits and self-portraits." Please feel free to take a look at my selections: > > http://homepages.nildram.co.uk/%7Esimmers/snake171.html > > Here's a sample poem: > > Through the Hoof-Dragged Dirt > > I?m a barricade, a prickly wind, > a breathing candelabra, > a small, abandoned bed. > > You?re low tide?s pilings > writing the poem ?Boy > in a Red Cap Wielding a Stick.? > > I?m sandwiched between dire > and die; you are stop, listen, survive. > You?re the wooden fence ? > > mossy, peeling. I?m a shopping bag, > abandon-crammed. You?re the ferry?s > rumbling engine. I?m shook up > > by the black-eyed rat the fly needs > so, so badly. You?re grouping > the cold, the dark, the cravings. > > In the cook pot of silent, > I heard a gate click shut, heard > a fence say please ? a new coat of paint. > > --Martha Silano > > > > > ======================================== > David Graham > grahamd at ripon.edu > > Home Page: > http://web.me.com/drjazz > > Poetry Library: > http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html > ========================================== > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > End of New-Poetry Digest, Vol 5, Issue 4 > **************************************** -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jschauer at hotwaxsites.com Sat Dec 4 10:38:05 2010 From: jschauer at hotwaxsites.com (Jay Schauer) Date: Sat, 04 Dec 2010 10:38:05 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] O, Poets! We need your help! Message-ID: <4CFA605D.5060903@hotwaxsites.com> http://hotwaxpoet.com O, Poets! We need your help! Will you be HotWax's first staff poet? HotWax wants a staff poet. =================== Why doesn?t every company have a staff poet? Poets shine light on the beautiful and the unexpected. Poets look from the inside out. Poets audit words, looking for the truth behind them. Why wouldn?t a company want this? Shouldn?t there be a poet on every staff? Isn?t a poet?s role as important as an accountant?s? Fame, Fortune, and an iPad! =========================== Here?s what the lucky candidate will receive * You?ll be HotWax?s first staff poet...a one-year position * You?ll receive an insultingly small salary. We do mean small. * Your picture, bio, and poems will be featured on the HotWax website * You?ll get 500 HotWax business cards with your name and title * You?ll get your own extension on the HotWax toll-free line (855 4HOTWAX) * You?ll get a HotWax website ? free for life * You?ll get your very own 32GB iPad Your staff position includes responsibilities ============================================= * You?ll need to write at least 4 poems for HotWax during the year * We?ll suggest topics, but you can choose your own * These poems must be at least one word long * HotWax will have the right to publish your HotWax poems on its website, use them in advertising etc. * We might include your name or image or poems or all three in our marketing * You?ll be invited to online staff meetings to opine about HotWax?s past, present and future Is this a poetry contest? ====================== Well, yes, I suppose it is a poetry contest. It?s just a lot better than most poetry contests. http://hotwaxpoet.com O, Poets! We need your help! Please forward this plea to anyone who can help us! From c.a.b.daly at gmail.com Sat Dec 4 12:41:14 2010 From: c.a.b.daly at gmail.com (Catherine Daly) Date: Sat, 4 Dec 2010 09:41:14 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] O, Poets! We need your help! In-Reply-To: <4CFA605D.5060903@hotwaxsites.com> References: <4CFA605D.5060903@hotwaxsites.com> Message-ID: Jay Schauer: Are you affiliated with HotWax or Asheville Poetry Review or both or neither? It's unclear to me whether you want a mission statement that is a poem, or you want poems which use the notes toward a mission statement as a source. You are doubtless aware that mission statements are usually a team-building exercise, and / or that those who facilitate their writing make quite a bit of money for doing so? Like, about 10 iPads? All best, Catherine Daly -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From amyhappens at yahoo.com Sat Dec 4 16:50:14 2010 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king) Date: Sat, 4 Dec 2010 13:50:14 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetry?! Why bother? Message-ID: <556897.16443.qm@web83304.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> THANKS TO ALL FOR THE RECOMMENDATIONS -- http://amyking.wordpress.com/2010/12/04/poetry-why-bother/ PLEASE SUGGEST ANY OTHERS! Thanks much, Amy ********* VIDA: Women in Literary Arts + Interviews Amy's Alias + http://amyking.org/ ******** -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd at ripon.edu Sat Dec 4 16:52:21 2010 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Sat, 4 Dec 2010 15:52:21 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Snakeskin "Portraits & Self-Portraits" In-Reply-To: References: , Message-ID: <3D990C99-74F8-4192-BA7D-BA089846A635@ripon.edu> Thanks, Jared. I'd be most happy to hear any reactions you (or anyone) might have. ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.me.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== On Dec 3, 2010, at 9:35 PM, Jared Schickling wrote: > Dear David, > > That gorgeous sample poem from Martha Silano got me to Josh English's devastating portrait as a husband > what a break at the end of the night > A million congrats on it. Look forward to spending time with it. > > Sincerely, > Jared > > > > Message: 10 > > Date: Fri, 3 Dec 2010 21:22:52 -0600 > > From: David Graham > > To: "new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu & Views" > > > > Subject: [New-Poetry] Snakeskin "Portraits & Self-Portraits" > > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" > > > > I was asked to guest edit a thematic issue of the English webzine Snakeskin, and the issue has just gone online. The theme is "portraits and self-portraits." Please feel free to take a look at my selections: > > > > http://homepages.nildram.co.uk/%7Esimmers/snake171.html > > > > Here's a sample poem: > > > > Through the Hoof-Dragged Dirt > > > > I?m a barricade, a prickly wind, > > a breathing candelabra, > > a small, abandoned bed. > > > > You?re low tide?s pilings > > writing the poem ?Boy > > in a Red Cap Wielding a Stick.? > > > > I?m sandwiched between dire > > and die; you are stop, listen, survive. > > You?re the wooden fence ? > > > > mossy, peeling. I?m a shopping bag, > > abandon-crammed. You?re the ferry?s > > rumbling engine. I?m shook up > > > > by the black-eyed rat the fly needs > > so, so badly. You?re grouping > > the cold, the dark, the cravings. > > > > In the cook pot of silent, > > I heard a gate click shut, heard > > a fence say please ? a new coat of paint. > > > > --Martha Silano > > > > > > > > > > ======================================== > > David Graham > > grahamd at ripon.edu > > > > Home Page: > > http://web.me.com/drjazz > > > > Poetry Library: > > http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html > > ========================================== > > > > > > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- > > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > > URL: > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > > End of New-Poetry Digest, Vol 5, Issue 4 > > **************************************** > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jschauer at hotwaxsites.com Sat Dec 4 14:31:24 2010 From: jschauer at hotwaxsites.com (Jay Schauer) Date: Sat, 04 Dec 2010 14:31:24 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] O, Poets! We need your help! In-Reply-To: References: <4CFA605D.5060903@hotwaxsites.com> Message-ID: <4CFA970C.9080701@hotwaxsites.com> On 12/4/2010 12:41 PM, Catherine Daly wrote: > Jay Schauer: > > Are you affiliated with HotWax or Asheville Poetry Review or both or > neither? both. > > It's unclear to me whether you want a mission statement that is a > poem, or you want poems which use the notes toward a mission statement > as a source. We want a poetic expression of the qualities we so inadequately express in the "our mission" notes. > > You are doubtless aware that mission statements are usually a > team-building exercise, and / or that those who facilitate their > writing make quite a bit of money for doing so? Like, about 10 iPads? In a former life I was an overpriced consultant involved with many such exercises. Believe no poetry ever resulted from any of them. I agree entirely that the idea that anyone would want to participate is absurd, and the pathetic prize being offered is insulting. Besides the real prize is the HotWax business cards. > > All best, > Catherine Daly > > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Sat Dec 4 19:03:48 2010 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Sat, 04 Dec 2010 19:03:48 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] WorldPo: Gillian Clarke, Wales Message-ID: <8CD622706DCDA8A-174C-10F5F@webmail-d005.sysops.aol.com> http://www.hindu.com/lr/2010/12/05/stories/2010120550120300.htm It was a conversation that started serendipitously during the Hay festival held in Thiruvananthapuram in November. Yet, my discussion with Gillian Clarke, the national poet of Wales flowed as mellifluously as her poetry. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From GrahamD at ripon.edu Sun Dec 5 11:41:46 2010 From: GrahamD at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Sun, 5 Dec 2010 10:41:46 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] End Times Message-ID: <2E25DFFD-8EA0-4724-A5B6-CB2C00FCBBA8@ripon.edu> Excellent Daisy Fried review of new books by Harold Bloom and Helen Vendler: http://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/05/books/review/Fried-t.html?pagewanted=1&_r=1&ref=books In their latest volumes, two of America?s best-known and longest-lived critics look to poems for clarity about the end of life ? what Walt Whitman called ?the merge.? In ?Last Looks, Last Books,? Helen Vendler closely reads work from the final collections of five major 20th-century poets, all aware that death was coming soon. In ?Till I End My Song,? Harold Bloom gathers 100 ?last poems,? from Edmund Spenser?s ?Prothalamion? (the source of the book?s title) to ?The Veiled Suite,? by the Kashmiri-American Agha Shahid Ali, who died in 2001. ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.me.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Sun Dec 5 13:27:00 2010 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Sun, 05 Dec 2010 13:27:00 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] u heard it here second: the classics way back Message-ID: <8CD62C124552C9C-10D0-14F3B@webmail-m085.sysops.aol.com> http://www.poetryfoundation.org/harriet/2010/11/wait-a-minute-david-cross-writes-poetry/ / -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Sun Dec 5 16:22:15 2010 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sun, 5 Dec 2010 22:22:15 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] another 1 Message-ID: for my Father: http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/2010/12/for-my-father.html -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sun Dec 5 18:05:19 2010 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Sun, 05 Dec 2010 18:05:19 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] another 1 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4CFC1AAF.1080209@nut-n-but.net> On 12/5/2010 4:22 PM, Anny Ballardini wrote: > for my Father: > http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/2010/12/for-my-father.html > > Another /very/ nice one, Anny. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Mon Dec 6 01:20:53 2010 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon, 6 Dec 2010 07:20:53 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] another 1 In-Reply-To: <4CFC1AAF.1080209@nut-n-but.net> References: <4CFC1AAF.1080209@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: Thank you, Bob. On Mon, Dec 6, 2010 at 12:05 AM, Bob Grumman wrote: > On 12/5/2010 4:22 PM, Anny Ballardini wrote: > > for my Father: > http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/2010/12/for-my-father.html > > > > Another *very* nice one, Anny. > > --Bob > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tad at opus40.org Mon Dec 6 09:29:09 2010 From: tad at opus40.org (Tad Richards) Date: Mon, 6 Dec 2010 09:29:09 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] You have been unsubscribed from the New-Poetry mailing list In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, Dec 6, 2010 at 9:00 AM, wrote: > Goodbye, farewell, happy trails...Should you change your mind, you may > resub here: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > I keep getting blackballed, but it never seems to make a difference. I'm still here. I think maybe it's the opus40-01 at opus40.org address, which I'm not using any more. Jim -- can you take that one off? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Mon Dec 6 11:39:40 2010 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon, 6 Dec 2010 17:39:40 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Nico Vassilakis Message-ID: http://www.pilotbooksseattle.com/blog/?p=1410 and The first 6 months of SMALLS An online zine run by Will Owen at Pilot Books, SEATTLE SMALLS - June http://www.pilotbooksseattle.com/blog/?p=503 SMALLS - July http://www.pilotbooksseattle.com/blog/?p=681 SMALLS - August http://www.pilotbooksseattle.com/blog/?p=970 SMALLS - September http://www.pilotbooksseattle.com/blog/?p=1169 SMAALLS - October http://www.pilotbooksseattle.com/blog/?p=1314 SMALLS - November http://www.pilotbooksseattle.com/blog/?p=1433 SMALLS is a monthly inceptual zine hosted on the third Wednesday of each month. Incomplete and out-of-context works presented like workbooks or interesting puzzle pieces that, in theory, are to be added together to build greater wholes. If you have an interesting fragment or work in progress that you'd like included in the next issue of smalls, send it electronically to will at pilotbooksseattle dot com -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Mon Dec 6 22:09:14 2010 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Mon, 06 Dec 2010 22:09:14 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] hockey po Message-ID: <8CD63D3431E7B33-16E8-5BFD@webmail-m078.sysops.aol.com> Duthie wouldn't elaborate at the time, but viewers of the Canucks' 3-0 victory over the Chicago Blackhawks on Friday were witness to the host of the NHL on TSN's latest collaboration with the Vancouver goalie. Dressed in a poor-boy hat, argyle cardigan and with a scarf wrapped around his neck, a bespectacled Luongo read a collection of poems based on his experiences in goal. Like this one, entitled Byfuglien', an homage to former Blackhawks' behemoth Dustin Byfuglien: Human eclipse, rhinoceros hips, Who will laugh last, when I slash your calf. Bring me peace, make it cease, Get your big ass out of my crease Read more: http://www.vancouversun.com/sports/Luongo+poet+huge/3933424/story.html#ixzz17OIajDq2 \ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From c.a.b.daly at gmail.com Mon Dec 6 22:34:01 2010 From: c.a.b.daly at gmail.com (Catherine Daly) Date: Mon, 6 Dec 2010 19:34:01 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] hockey po In-Reply-To: <8CD63D3431E7B33-16E8-5BFD@webmail-m078.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CD63D3431E7B33-16E8-5BFD@webmail-m078.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: priceless! check out the performance of the fans' cheer for him... On Mon, Dec 6, 2010 at 7:09 PM, wrote: > Duthie wouldn't elaborate at the time, but viewers of the Canucks' 3-0 > victory over the Chicago Blackhawks on Friday were witness to the host of > the NHL on TSN's latest collaboration with the Vancouver goalie. > > Dressed in a poor-boy hat, argyle cardigan and with a scarf wrapped around > his neck, a bespectacled Luongo read a collection of poems based on his > experiences in goal. > > Like this one, entitled Byfuglien', an homage to former Blackhawks' > behemoth Dustin Byfuglien: > > Human eclipse, rhinoceros hips, > Who will laugh last, when I slash your calf. > Bring me peace, make it cease, > Get your big ass out of my crease > > Read more: > http://www.vancouversun.com/sports/Luongo+poet+huge/3933424/story.html#ixzz17OIajDq2 > > \ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Tue Dec 7 15:49:58 2010 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Tue, 07 Dec 2010 15:49:58 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] new director of poetry think tank Message-ID: <8CD646772312F6E-1A24-1992@webmail-d029.sysops.aol.com> FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE December 7, 2010 Poet Ilya Kaminsky Appointed Director of Harriet Monroe Poetry Institute Will lead Poetry Foundation?s ?think tank? for two-year term CHICAGO ? The Poetry Foundation, publisher of Poetry magazine, is pleased to announce the appointment of Ilya Kaminsky as the new director of the Harriet Monroe Poetry Institute (HMPI). Kaminsky?a poet, critic, and translator?will begin his tenure on January 1, 2011. He succeeds inaugural HMPI director Katharine Coles. Born in Odessa, in the former USSR, Kaminsky came to the United States in 1993. He is the author of Dancing in Odessa (Tupelo Press, 2004) and currently teaches poetry and comparative literature at San Diego State University, where he will continue to serve as director of the MFA Program in Poetry and remain a tenured associate professor in the Department of English and Comparative Literature. The HMPI was created in 2008 to provide a space in which fresh thinking about poetry, in both its intellectual and its practical needs, could flourish. HMPI is an independent forum, free of any allegiance other than to the best ideas. The Institute exists to identify and support solutions to benefit the art form in general. By convening poets, scholars, publishers, educators, and other thinkers from inside and outside the poetry world, it addresses issues of importance to the art form of poetry. Under Coles?s leadership, the HMPI released the report Poetry and New Media, which brought together poets and publishers, as well as experts in law, technology, and media, to examine access to poetry. In January 2011, the Institute will issue the Code of Best Practices in Fair Use for Poetry, a project in partnership with the Center for Social Media at American University that codifies recommendations for fair use of copyrighted poems in specific instances. In addition, in spring 2011, the HMPI will publish an anthology of essays on community-based poetry programs; contributors to the volume include Elizabeth Alexander, Robert Hass, and Dana Gioia, among others. As the director of the HMPI, Kaminsky will be responsible for a full range of Institute activities, including collaborating with members of the poetry community and innovators from outside the community; commissioning and overseeing original research to support issues related to poetry; seeking a vigorous presence for poetry in our culture; and promoting partnerships, programs, and projects that will benefit poetry as an art form. ?The Institute is a protean organization?its projects arise from the interests and needs of the poetry community, and each project takes on its own necessary shape,? said Coles. ?Ilya is the perfect person to carry this work into its second phase: he?s visionary, energetic, and adaptable. I?m delighted to be handing him the reins.? Added Poetry Foundation president John Barr: ?We can?t wait to see in what new directions Ilya will take the Institute. He is the ideal appointment.? Kaminsky was featured in the March 2010 issue of Poetry in a discussion on poetry translation with critic Adam Kirsch. Ilya Kaminsky and Katharine Coles are available for interviews. Please call 312.799.8016 to schedule a time to speak with them. View this release online. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Tue Dec 7 15:58:51 2010 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Tue, 07 Dec 2010 15:58:51 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Top 10 Poetry Collections of 2010, Prague perspective In-Reply-To: <000e0cd23b84b2d1a80496d237b3@google.com> References: <000e0cd23b84b2d1a80496d237b3@google.com> Message-ID: <8CD6468AF6634B2-1A24-1BF3@webmail-d029.sysops.aol.com> http://blogs.praguepost.com/blog/2010/12/05/top-10-poetry-collections-of-2010/ = -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Tue Dec 7 16:14:10 2010 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Tue, 7 Dec 2010 22:14:10 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] by our Amy King Message-ID: Necessary Instinct http://www.harpandaltar.com/interior.php?t=p&i=8&p=69&e=214 -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Tue Dec 7 16:22:31 2010 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Tue, 7 Dec 2010 22:22:31 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] new director of poetry think tank In-Reply-To: <8CD646772312F6E-1A24-1992@webmail-d029.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CD646772312F6E-1A24-1992@webmail-d029.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: Great News! Cheers to Ilya Kaminsky_ On Tue, Dec 7, 2010 at 9:49 PM, wrote: > FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE December 7, 2010 Poet Ilya Kaminsky Appointed > Director of Harriet Monroe Poetry Institute > *Will lead Poetry Foundation?s ?think tank? for two-year term * > > CHICAGO ? The Poetry Foundation, publisher of *Poetry* magazine, is > pleased to announce the appointment of Ilya Kaminsky as the new director of > the Harriet Monroe Poetry Institute (HMPI). Kaminsky?a poet, critic, and > translator?will begin his tenure on January 1, 2011. He succeeds inaugural > HMPI director Katharine Coles. > > Born in Odessa, in the former USSR, Kaminsky came to the United States in > 1993. He is the author of *Dancing in Odessa* (Tupelo Press, 2004) and > currently teaches poetry and comparative literature at San Diego State > University, where he will continue to serve as director of the MFA Program > in Poetry and remain a tenured associate professor in the Department of > English and Comparative Literature. > > The HMPI was created in 2008 to provide a space in which fresh thinking > about poetry, in both its intellectual and its practical needs, could > flourish. HMPI is an independent forum, free of any allegiance other than to > the best ideas. The Institute exists to identify and support solutions to > benefit the art form in general. By convening poets, scholars, publishers, > educators, and other thinkers from inside and outside the poetry world, it > addresses issues of importance to the art form of poetry. > > Under Coles?s leadership, the HMPI released the report *Poetry and New > Media*, which brought together poets and publishers, as well as experts in > law, technology, and media, to examine access to poetry. In January 2011, > the Institute will issue the *Code of Best Practices in Fair Use for * > *Poetry*, a project in partnership with the Center for Social Media at > American University that codifies recommendations for fair use of > copyrighted poems in specific instances. In addition, in spring 2011, the > HMPI will publish an anthology of essays on community-based poetry programs; > contributors to the volume include Elizabeth Alexander, Robert Hass, and > Dana Gioia, among others. > > As the director of the HMPI, Kaminsky will be responsible for a full range > of Institute activities, including collaborating with members of the poetry > community and innovators from outside the community; commissioning and > overseeing original research to support issues related to poetry; seeking a > vigorous presence for poetry in our culture; and promoting partnerships, > programs, and projects that will benefit poetry as an art form. > > ?The Institute is a protean organization?its projects arise from the > interests and needs of the poetry community, and each project takes on its > own necessary shape,? said Coles. ?Ilya is the perfect person to carry this > work into its second phase: he?s visionary, energetic, and adaptable. I?m > delighted to be handing him the reins.? Added Poetry Foundation president > John Barr: ?We can?t wait to see in what new directions Ilya will take the > Institute. He is the ideal appointment.? > > Kaminsky was featured in the March 2010 issue of *Poetry *in a* *discussion > on poetry translationwith critic Adam Kirsch. > Ilya Kaminsky and Katharine Coles are available for interviews. Please call > 312.799.8016 to schedule a time to speak with them. > > View this release online. > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Tue Dec 7 16:34:23 2010 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Tue, 07 Dec 2010 16:34:23 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] 11 for 2010 from The New Yorker Message-ID: <8CD646DA62C8462-1398-BDF@webmail-m010.sysops.aol.com> The New Yorker's Eleven Best Poetry Books of 2010 Posted by Dan Chiasson http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/newsdesk/2010/12/eleven-best-poetry-books-of-2010.html / -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd at ripon.edu Tue Dec 7 17:09:48 2010 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Tue, 07 Dec 2010 16:09:48 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Prime Time Poetry Message-ID: Three new poems of mine up at Poemeleon: http://www.poemeleon.org/david-graham-2/ Jim Finnegan, beware: I appear in a grouping called (horrors!) "The Ultra Talk Hour," along with Mark Halliday and David Kirby. The theme of the whole issue is "prime time poetry," a concept originated I believe by Tom C. Hunley, and encompassing categories such as slam, stand up, and expansive poetry. You can read more about the concept of "prime time poetry" at the Poemeleon site. Other poets in the issue include Robert Pinsky, Molly Peacock, Kelly Cherry, Martha Silano, Taylor Mali, and Charles Harper Webb. -- ==================================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.me.com/drjazz/ Poetry Library: http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ==================================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cervantes.james at gmail.com Tue Dec 7 18:32:09 2010 From: cervantes.james at gmail.com (James Cervantes) Date: Tue, 7 Dec 2010 16:32:09 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] 11 for 2010 from The New Yorker In-Reply-To: <8CD646DA62C8462-1398-BDF@webmail-m010.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CD646DA62C8462-1398-BDF@webmail-m010.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: Is anyone keeping track? Relying on my bad memory from deleted posts, I'm saying no book has yet made more than one list of "best of" 2010. - Jim On Tue, Dec 7, 2010 at 2:34 PM, wrote: > The New Yorker's > Eleven Best Poetry Books of 2010 > Posted by Dan Chiasson > > http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/newsdesk/2010/12/eleven-best-poetry-books-of-2010.html > > / > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning http://www.fieralingue.it/documenti/mr_bondo.pdf http://www.poetserv.org/jvc/home/index.html http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamescervantes/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Rsgwynn1 at cs.com Tue Dec 7 19:10:04 2010 From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com (Rsgwynn1 at cs.com) Date: Tue, 7 Dec 2010 19:10:04 EST Subject: [New-Poetry] new director of poetry think tank Message-ID: Congrats to Ilya, a brilliant guy and a nice one, too. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Tue Dec 7 19:50:37 2010 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Tue, 07 Dec 2010 19:50:37 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Lists of Best Poetry Collections of 2010 In-Reply-To: References: <8CD646DA62C8462-1398-BDF@webmail-m010.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <4CFED65D.6070702@nut-n-but.net> My first thought is that even if these lists were compiled by critics with a knowledge of the full range of poetry being composed nowadays, they are premature. The years has not ended yet. My second, much more intelligent thought, is that the lists that ought to be compiled should be of the best collections of poetry published in 2000. A minor third thought is that if the latter lists were said to be of 2010 collections, few would realize it from the poems in them (assuming topical references were deleted). --Bob From amyhappens at yahoo.com Tue Dec 7 22:46:38 2010 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king) Date: Tue, 7 Dec 2010 19:46:38 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] by our Amy King In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <485690.12756.qm@web83305.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Thank you, Anny!! x, a ********* VIDA: Women in Literary Arts + Interviews Amy's Alias + http://amyking.org/ ******** ________________________________ From: Anny Ballardini To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &, Views" Sent: Tue, December 7, 2010 4:14:10 PM Subject: [New-Poetry] by our Amy King Necessary Instinct http://www.harpandaltar.com/interior.php?t=p&i=8&p=69&e=214 -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Wed Dec 8 03:53:27 2010 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2010 09:53:27 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] An Opening Is Nothing @ Vera Project 12/14 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: An Opening Is Nothing spatial poetry. ver(a)rt gallery 3rd and Warren. N of Key Arena Tuesday, December 14th from 6 to 8 PM. Performance at 7. Please join us for the opening of A Poem Is Nothing, an irreducible poet show. Reacting to Laura Riding Jackson's endless returns to nothing as an ethic and an engine on the virge of, and wholeheartedly opposed to, social reality. For Jackson, nothing was the poem, opposed entirely to music and art, exploding out of an unreal self, unmaking the tools and words it finds along the way, only to be realized, regrettably, by tenacious acts of criticism. With this in mind, 4 poets were asked to show work to spatialize such a poetry of or from nothing. The show will feature performances by James Yeary, Nico Vassilakis, and a Gaburo Ensemble from Olympia (performing Lingua II: Maledetto; performers include David Wolach, Arun Chandra, and Elizabeth Williamson) The show features works by Bethany Ides (NY) Urban Subjects: Jeff Derksen, Sabine Bitter, Helmut Weber (Vancouver) Donato Mancini (Vancouver) Nico Vassilakis (Seattle) -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Wed Dec 8 04:07:50 2010 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2010 10:07:50 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Galatea Resurrects #15! In-Reply-To: <2ff2e.4f281465.3a30852b@aol.com> References: <2ff2e.4f281465.3a30852b@aol.com> Message-ID: *GALATEA RESURRECTS ANNOUNCEMENT* We are pleased to announce the release of *Galatea Resurrects'* 15th Issue which presents 72 New Poetry Reviews as well as other feature presentations. The issue can be accessed directly at http://galatearesurrection15.blogspot.com . For convenience, the Table of Contents is cutnpasted below. Enjoy! Eileen Tabios Editor, *Galatea Resurrects (A Poetry Engagement)* ++++ *Issue No. 15 TABLE OF CONTENTS* *Dec. 7, 2010* *EDITOR?S INTRODUCTION* By Eileen Tabios *NEW REVIEWS* Camille Martin reviews SALINE by Kimberly Lyons Patrick James Dunagan reviews DEAR SANDY, HELLO: LETTERS FROM TED TO SANDY BERRIGAN, Edited by Sandy Berrigan and Ron Padgett Jon Curley reviews AUTOPSY TURVY by Thomas Fink and Maya Diablo Mason Eileen Tabios engages HAD SLAVES by Catherine Sasanov John Herbert Cunningham reviews SELECTED POEMS OF GARCILASO DE LA VEGA, Edited and translated by John Dent-Young Kathryn Stevenson reviews MONEY FOR SUNSETS by Elizabeth J. Colen T.C. Marshall reviews VANCOUVER: A POEM by George Stanley and IN THE MILLENIUM by Barry McKinnon Eric Dickey reviews AS IT TURNED OUT by Dmitry Golynko, Edited by Eugene Ostashevsky. Translated by Eugene Ostashevsky and Rebecca Bella with Simona Schneider Peg Duthie engages THE AMAZING ADVENTURES OF GRAVITY AND GRACE by Ernesto Priego Patrick James Dunagan reviews UNTAM?D WING: RIFFS ON ROMANTIC POETRY by Jeffrey C. Robinson Harry Thorne reviews NEIGHBOR by Rachel Levitsky Michael Pollock engages "El Dorado" by Edgar Allan Poe, Spanish translation by Mario Murgia in EL CURVO Y OTROS POEMAS by Edgar Allan Poe, Edicion bilingue with Traduccion del proyecto Helbardot and Ilustraciones de Gustavo Abascal Barbara Roether reviews FIRE EXIT by Robert Kelly Allen Bramhall reviews SITUATIONS by Laura Carter Eileen Tabios engages 1000 SONNETS by Tim Atkins Eric Hoffman reviews ESCHATON by Michael Heller Jon Curley reviews 100 NOTES ON VIOLENCE by Julie Carr Genevieve Kaplan reviews NETS by Jen Bervin and THE MS OF M Y KIN by Janet Holmes Aileen Ibardaloza reviews THE CHAINED HAY(NA)KU PROJECT, Curated by Ivy Alvarez, John Bloomberg-Rissman, Ernesto Priego & Eileen Tabios and THE HAY(NA)KU ANTHOLOGY, VOL. II, Edited by Jean Vengua and Mark Young John Herbert Cunningham reviews COLLECTED POEMS by Dylan Thomas Eileen Tabios engages 2ND NOTICE OF MODIFICATIONS TO TEXT OF PROPOSED REGULATIONS by John Bloomberg-Rissman Allen Bramhall reviews NOT BLESSED by Harold Abramowitz Moira Richards reviews A IS FOR ANNE by Penelope Scambly Schott Peg Duthie engages "GOTHENBURG" FROM THREE GEOGAOPHIES: A MILKMAID'S GRIMOIRE by Arielle Guy John Herbert Cunningham reviews DISJUNCTIVE POETICS: FROM GETRUDE STEIN AND LOUIS ZUKOFSKY TO SUSAN HOWE by Peter Quartermain Rebecca Loudon reviews GOD DAMSEL by Reb Livingston Eileen Tabios engages REQUIEM FOR THE ORCHARD by Oliver de la Paz Kristi Castro reviews EDGE BY EDGE, collection of poetry chaps by Gladys Justin Carr, Heidi Hart, Emma Bolden, and Vivian Teter Allen Bramhall reviews I-FORMATION BOOK 1 by Anne Gorrick Lynn Behrendt reviews I-FORMATION BOOK 1 by Anne Gorrick Eileen Tabios engages Lynn Behrendt's review of Anne Gorrick's I-FORMATION BOOK 1 Michael Caylo-Baradi reviews MISSPELL by Lars Palm John Herbert Cunningham reviews PENURY by Myung Mi Kim Albert B. Casuga reviews TRAJE DE BODA: POEMS by Aileen Ibardaloza Richard Lopez reviews SOME SONNETS, Edited by Tim Wright Eileen Tabios engages APPARITION POEMS by Adam Fieled L.M. Freer reviews BEATS AT NAROPA: AN ANTHOLOGY, Edited by Anne Waldman and Laura Wright Moira Richards reviews (MADE) by Cara Benson Thomas Fink reviews DRUNKER/HOLDING EMBER by Raymond Farr Edric Mesmer reviews ON SECRETS OF MY PRISON HOUSE by Geoffrey Gatza Peg Duthie engages EATING HER WEDDING DRESS: A COLLECTION OF CLOTHING POEMS, Edited by Vasiliki Katsarou, Ruth O?Toole, and Ellen Foos Eileen Tabios engages BEHAVE: CALIFORNIA RANT 66 by Steve Tills Jim McCrary reviews MR. MAGOO by Steve Tills Nicholas T. Spatafora reviews AUTOPSY TURVY by Thomas Fink and Maya Diablo Mason Margaret H. Johnson reviews MANHATTAN MAN (AND OTHER POEMS) by Jack Lynch Eileen Tabios engages AT TROTSKY'S FUNERAL by Mark Young Marianne Villanueva reviews ERNESTA, IN THE STYLE OF FLAMENCO by Sandy McIntosh Hadas Yatom-Schwartz engages ?Nathan, in the Ancient Language?, a poem in ERNESTA, IN THE STYLE OF THE FLAMENCO by Sandy McIntosh Patrick James Dunagan reviews COLLECTED POEMS / GUSTAF SOBIN, Edited by Esther Sobin, Andrew Joron, Andrew Zawacki, and Ed Foster Jon Curley reviews CLEANING THE MIRROR: SELECTED AND NEW POEMS by Joel Chace Tom Beckett reviews CLEANING THE MIRROR: SELECTED AND NEW POEMS by Joel Chace John Bloomberg-Rissman reviews AT THE FAIR by Tom Clark Peg Duthie engages 32 SNAPSHOTS OF MARSEILLES by Guy Bennett Jim McCrary reviews THE HAY(NA)KU FOR HAITI SERIES, Edited by Eileen Tabios Kristina Marie Darling reviews THE FRENCH EXIT by Elisa Gabbert Anny Ballardini reviews BRAINOGRAPHY by Evelyn Posamentier Richard Lopez reviews 2ND NOTICE OF MODIFICATIONS TO TEXT OF PROPOSED REGULATIONS by John Bloomberg-Rissman G.E. Schwartz reviews THE FUTURE IS HAPPY by Sarah Sarai Kristina Marie Darling reviews TINDERBOX LAWN by Carol Guess Eileen Tabios engages DIWATA by Barbara Jane Reyes Peg Duthie engages DUTIES OF AN ENGLISH FOREIGN SECRETARY by Macgregor Card John Bloomberg-Rissman reviews ADAMANTINE by Shin Yu Pai Jeff Harrison reviews GRIEF SUITE by Bobbi Lurie Allen Bramhall reviews OPULENCE by Stephen Ellis Peg Duthie engages SPRING HAS COME: SPANISH LYRICAL POETRY FROM THE SONGBOOKS OF THE RENAISSANCE by Alvaro Cardona-Hine Jim McCrary reviews CARRY CATASTROPHE by Megan Kaminski Moira Richards reviews THEN, SOMETHING by Patricia Fargnoli Eileen Tabios engages KING OF THE JUNGLE by Zvi A. Sesling Genevieve Kaplan reviews POETS ON TEACHING: A SOURCEBOOK, Edited by Joshua Marie Wilkinson *THE CRITIC WRITES POEMS* Kristina Marie Darling *FOCUS ON POETS* Tom Beckett interviews ANNE GORRICK Thomas Fink interviews JOANNA FUHRMAN *FROM OFFLINE TO ONLINE: REPRINTED REVIEW* Lisa Bower reviews SKIRT FULL OF BLACK by Sun Yung Shin Eric Dickey reviews LIGHT FROM A BULLET HOLE: POEMS NEW AND SELECTED, 1950?2008 by Ralph Salisbury *ADVERTISEMENT* Hay(na)ku for Haiti--a Haiti Relief Fundraiser *BACK COVER* No Deer Were Shot For These Shots! -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tad at opus40.org Wed Dec 8 08:42:53 2010 From: tad at opus40.org (Tad Richards) Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2010 08:42:53 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] by our Amy King In-Reply-To: <485690.12756.qm@web83305.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: <485690.12756.qm@web83305.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Wow, that's wonderful. So much energy, so many surprises. Thanks, Amy, thanks, Anny. On Tue, Dec 7, 2010 at 10:46 PM, amy king wrote: > Thank you, Anny!! x, a > > > ********* > VIDA: Women in Literary Arts > + Interviews > > Amy's Alias > + http://amyking.org/ > ******** > > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Anny Ballardini > *To:* "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &, Views" < > new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu> > *Sent:* Tue, December 7, 2010 4:14:10 PM > *Subject:* [New-Poetry] by our Amy King > > Necessary Instinct > http://www.harpandaltar.com/interior.php?t=p&i=8&p=69&e=214 > > -- > Anny Ballardini > http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ > http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome > http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 > http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html > I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing > star! > Friedrich Nietzsche > > ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique > vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? > Giovenale > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tad at opus40.org Wed Dec 8 10:52:06 2010 From: tad at opus40.org (Tad Richards) Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2010 10:52:06 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] u heard it here second: the classics way back In-Reply-To: <8CD62C124552C9C-10D0-14F3B@webmail-m085.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CD62C124552C9C-10D0-14F3B@webmail-m085.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: Ah, yes, those old moldy classics... On Sun, Dec 5, 2010 at 1:27 PM, wrote: > > http://www.poetryfoundation.org/harriet/2010/11/wait-a-minute-david-cross-writes-poetry/ > / > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Wed Dec 8 14:30:06 2010 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2010 20:30:06 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] SPD Poetry Best-sellers Message-ID: very happy to see that kari edwards is still strong and going SPD Poetry Best-sellers November 2010 1. *Greenswardby Cole Swensen (Ugly Duckling Presse) * 2. *The Networkby Jena Osman (Fence Books) * 3. *The Baghdad Bluesby Sinan Antoon (Harbor Mountain Press) * 4. *A Cloud of Witnessesby Jason Stumpf (Quale Press) * 5. *Faceby Sherman Alexie (Hanging Loose Press) * 6. *Lyric Postmodernisms: An Anthology of Contemporary Innovative Poetriesby Reginald Shepherd, Editor (Counterpath Press) * 7. *Selenographyby Joshua Marie Wilkinson (Sidebrow Books) * 8. *Rob the Plagiaristby Robert Fitterman (Roof Books) * 9. *Cop Kisserby Steven Zultanski (Book Thug) * 10. *The Rose Metal Press Field Guide to Prose Poetry: Contemporary Poets in Discussion and Practiceby Gary L. McDowell and F. Daniel Rzicznek, Editors (Rose Metal Press) * 11. *Scary, No Scaryby Zachary Schomburg (Black Ocean) * 12. *Pleasureby Brian Teare (Ahsahta Press) * 13. *Chinese Notebookby Demosthenes Agrafiotis (Ugly Duckling Presse) * 14. *Public Domainby Monica de la Torre (Roof Books) * 15. *Sky Booths in the Breath Somewhere: The Ashbery Erasure Poemsby David Dodd Lee (BlazeVOX Books) * 16. *Ten Walks/Two Talksby Jon Cotner and Andy Fitch (Ugly Duckling Presse) * 17. *Mommy Must Be a Fountain of Feathersby Kim Hyesoon (Action Books) * 18. *Pink Elephantby Rachel McKibbens (Cypher Books) * 19. *The Bark of the Dogby Merrill Gilfillan (Flood Editions) * 20. *engulf?enkindleby Anja Utler (Burning Deck) * 21. *Cargoby Kristin Kelly (Elixir Press) * 22. *Song for His Disappeared Love/Canto a Su Amor Desaparecidoby Ra?l Zurita (Action Books) * 23. *Bathsheba Transatlanticby Sarah Wetzel (Anhinga Press) * 24. *obedienceby kari edwards (Factory School) * 25. *Hughson's Tavernby Fred Moten (Leon Works) * 26. *As It Turned Outby Dmitri Golynko (Ugly Duckling Presse) * 27. *This Time We Are Bothby Clark Coolidge (Ugly Duckling Presse) * 28. *Ventraklby Christian Hawkey (Ugly Duckling Presse) * 29. *We Are All Good if They Try Hard Enoughby Mike Young (Publishing Genius Press) * 30. *Iteration Netsby Karla Kelsey (Ahsahta Press) * CLICK HERE TO SEENEW POETRYthe latest and the greatest -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Wed Dec 8 14:34:06 2010 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2010 20:34:06 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Emily and her dog Message-ID: I started Early ? Took my Dog ? by Emily Dickinson I started Early - Took my Dog - And visited the Sea - The Mermaids in the Basement Came out to look at me - And Frigates - in the Upper Floor Extended Hempen Hands - Presuming Me to be a Mouse - Aground - opon the Sands - But no Man moved Me - till the Tide Went past my simple Shoe - And past my Apron - and my Belt And past my Boddice - too - And made as He would eat me up - As wholly as a Dew Opon a Dandelion's Sleeve - And then - I started - too - And He - He followed - close behind - I felt His Silver Heel Opon my Ancle - Then My Shoes Would overflow with Pearl - Until We met the Solid Town - No One He seemed to know - And bowing - with a Mighty look - At me - The Sea withdrew - "I started Early ? Took my Dog ?" by Emily Dickinson. Public domain. (buy now ) -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Wed Dec 8 14:34:08 2010 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2010 20:34:08 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Emily and her dog Message-ID: I started Early ? Took my Dog ? by Emily Dickinson I started Early - Took my Dog - And visited the Sea - The Mermaids in the Basement Came out to look at me - And Frigates - in the Upper Floor Extended Hempen Hands - Presuming Me to be a Mouse - Aground - opon the Sands - But no Man moved Me - till the Tide Went past my simple Shoe - And past my Apron - and my Belt And past my Boddice - too - And made as He would eat me up - As wholly as a Dew Opon a Dandelion's Sleeve - And then - I started - too - And He - He followed - close behind - I felt His Silver Heel Opon my Ancle - Then My Shoes Would overflow with Pearl - Until We met the Solid Town - No One He seemed to know - And bowing - with a Mighty look - At me - The Sea withdrew - "I started Early ? Took my Dog ?" by Emily Dickinson. Public domain. (buy now ) -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Wed Dec 8 15:02:40 2010 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Wed, 08 Dec 2010 15:02:40 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Emily and her dog In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4CFFE460.9050802@nut-n-but.net> On 12/8/2010 2:34 PM, Anny Ballardini wrote: > > > I started Early ? Took my Dog ? > > by Emily Dickinson > > > I started Early - Took my Dog - > And visited the Sea - > The Mermaids in the Basement > Came out to look at me - > And Frigates - in the Upper Floor > Extended Hempen Hands - > Presuming Me to be a Mouse - > Aground - opon the Sands - > > But no Man moved Me - till the Tide > Went past my simple Shoe - > And past my Apron - and my Belt > And past my Boddice - too - > I hope her dog was sitting on her head at the time. > > And made as He would eat me up - > As wholly as a Dew > Opon a Dandelion's Sleeve - > And then - I started - too - > > And He - He followed - close behind - > I felt His Silver Heel > Opon my Ancle - Then My Shoes > Would overflow with Pearl - > > Until We met the Solid Town - > No One He seemed to know - > And bowing - with a Mighty look - > At me - The Sea withdrew - > Cruel Robert. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Wed Dec 8 14:59:48 2010 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2010 20:59:48 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Emily and her dog In-Reply-To: <4CFFE460.9050802@nut-n-but.net> References: <4CFFE460.9050802@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: cruelest! On Wed, Dec 8, 2010 at 9:02 PM, Bob Grumman wrote: > On 12/8/2010 2:34 PM, Anny Ballardini wrote: > > I started Early ? Took my Dog ? > > by Emily Dickinson > > I started Early - Took my Dog - > And visited the Sea - > The Mermaids in the Basement > Came out to look at me - > And Frigates - in the Upper Floor > Extended Hempen Hands - > Presuming Me to be a Mouse - > Aground - opon the Sands - > > But no Man moved Me - till the Tide > Went past my simple Shoe - > And past my Apron - and my Belt > And past my Boddice - too - > > I hope her dog was sitting on her head at the time. > > > > And made as He would eat me up - > As wholly as a Dew > Opon a Dandelion's Sleeve - > And then - I started - too - > > And He - He followed - close behind - > I felt His Silver Heel > Opon my Ancle - Then My Shoes > Would overflow with Pearl - > > Until We met the Solid Town - > No One He seemed to know - > And bowing - with a Mighty look - > At me - The Sea withdrew - > > Cruel Robert. > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Wed Dec 8 15:18:46 2010 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2010 21:18:46 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] End Times In-Reply-To: <2E25DFFD-8EA0-4724-A5B6-CB2C00FCBBA8@ripon.edu> References: <2E25DFFD-8EA0-4724-A5B6-CB2C00FCBBA8@ripon.edu> Message-ID: I love these poems! Thank you, Anny On Sun, Dec 5, 2010 at 5:41 PM, David Graham wrote: > Excellent Daisy Fried review of new books by Harold Bloom and Helen > Vendler: > > > http://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/05/books/review/Fried-t.html?pagewanted=1&_r=1&ref=books > > In their latest volumes, two of America?s best-known and longest-lived > critics look to poems for clarity about the end of life ? what Walt Whitman > called ?the merge.? In ?Last Looks, Last Books,? Helen Vendler closely reads > work from the final collections of five major 20th-century poets, all aware > that death was coming soon. In ?Till I End My Song,? Harold Bloom gathers > 100 ?last poems,? from Edmund Spenser?s ?Prothalamion? (the source of the > book?s title) to ?The Veiled Suite,? by the Kashmiri-American Agha Shahid > Ali, who died in 2001. > > > ======================================== > David Graham > grahamd at ripon.edu > > Home Page: > http://web.me.com/drjazz > > Poetry Library: > http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html > ========================================== > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Wed Dec 8 15:19:37 2010 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2010 21:19:37 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] End Times In-Reply-To: References: <2E25DFFD-8EA0-4724-A5B6-CB2C00FCBBA8@ripon.edu> Message-ID: Opps sorry, not one of my best days, it seems, I was referring to the following: http://www.poemeleon.org/david-graham-2/ On Wed, Dec 8, 2010 at 9:18 PM, Anny Ballardini wrote: > I love these poems! Thank you, > Anny > > On Sun, Dec 5, 2010 at 5:41 PM, David Graham wrote: > >> Excellent Daisy Fried review of new books by Harold Bloom and Helen >> Vendler: >> >> >> http://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/05/books/review/Fried-t.html?pagewanted=1&_r=1&ref=books >> >> In their latest volumes, two of America?s best-known and longest-lived >> critics look to poems for clarity about the end of life ? what Walt Whitman >> called ?the merge.? In ?Last Looks, Last Books,? Helen Vendler closely reads >> work from the final collections of five major 20th-century poets, all aware >> that death was coming soon. In ?Till I End My Song,? Harold Bloom gathers >> 100 ?last poems,? from Edmund Spenser?s ?Prothalamion? (the source of the >> book?s title) to ?The Veiled Suite,? by the Kashmiri-American Agha Shahid >> Ali, who died in 2001. >> >> >> ======================================== >> David Graham >> grahamd at ripon.edu >> >> Home Page: >> http://web.me.com/drjazz >> >> Poetry Library: >> http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html >> ========================================== >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > > > -- > Anny Ballardini > http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ > http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome > http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 > http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html > I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing > star! > Friedrich Nietzsche > > ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique > vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? > Giovenale > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Wed Dec 8 15:42:04 2010 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2010 12:42:04 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] Prime Time Poetry In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <977436.84780.qm@web55207.mail.re4.yahoo.com> Should be a fun group. David Kirby does excellent stand/up. ________________________________ From: David Graham To: NewPoetry Sent: Tue, December 7, 2010 5:09:48 PM Subject: [New-Poetry] Prime Time Poetry Prime Time Poetry Three new poems of mine up at Poemeleon: http://www.poemeleon.org/david-graham-2/ Jim Finnegan, beware: I appear in a grouping called (horrors!) "The Ultra Talk Hour," along with Mark Halliday and David Kirby. The theme of the whole issue is "prime time poetry," a concept originated I believe by Tom C. Hunley, and encompassing categories such as slam, stand up, and expansive poetry. You can read more about the concept of "prime time poetry" at the Poemeleon site. Other poets in the issue include Robert Pinsky, Molly Peacock, Kelly Cherry, Martha Silano, Taylor Mali, and Charles Harper Webb. -- ==================================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.me.com/drjazz/ Poetry Library: http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ==================================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tad at opus40.org Thu Dec 9 09:05:14 2010 From: tad at opus40.org (Tad Richards) Date: Thu, 9 Dec 2010 09:05:14 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Emily and her dog In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Never saw that one before -- strange and wonderful. On Wed, Dec 8, 2010 at 2:34 PM, Anny Ballardini wrote: > I started Early ? Took my Dog ? > > by Emily Dickinson > > I started Early - Took my Dog - > And visited the Sea - > The Mermaids in the Basement > Came out to look at me - > And Frigates - in the Upper Floor > Extended Hempen Hands - > Presuming Me to be a Mouse - > Aground - opon the Sands - > > But no Man moved Me - till the Tide > Went past my simple Shoe - > And past my Apron - and my Belt > And past my Boddice - too - > > And made as He would eat me up - > As wholly as a Dew > Opon a Dandelion's Sleeve - > And then - I started - too - > > And He - He followed - close behind - > I felt His Silver Heel > Opon my Ancle - Then My Shoes > Would overflow with Pearl - > > Until We met the Solid Town - > No One He seemed to know - > And bowing - with a Mighty look - > At me - The Sea withdrew - > > "I started Early ? Took my Dog ?" by Emily Dickinson. Public domain. (buy > now) > > > > -- > Anny Ballardini > http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ > http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome > http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 > http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html > I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing > star! > Friedrich Nietzsche > > ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique > vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? > Giovenale > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tad at opus40.org Thu Dec 9 09:06:54 2010 From: tad at opus40.org (Tad Richards) Date: Thu, 9 Dec 2010 09:06:54 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] SPD Poetry Best-sellers In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: What's SPD? On Wed, Dec 8, 2010 at 2:30 PM, Anny Ballardini wrote: > very happy to see that kari edwards is still strong and going > > SPD Poetry Best-sellers > November > 2010 > > 1. *Greenswardby Cole Swensen (Ugly Duckling Presse) > * > 2. *The Networkby Jena Osman (Fence Books) > * > 3. *The Baghdad Bluesby Sinan Antoon (Harbor Mountain Press) > * > 4. *A Cloud of Witnessesby Jason Stumpf (Quale Press) > * > 5. *Faceby Sherman Alexie (Hanging Loose Press) > * > 6. *Lyric Postmodernisms: An Anthology of Contemporary Innovative > Poetriesby Reginald Shepherd, Editor (Counterpath Press) > * > 7. *Selenographyby Joshua Marie Wilkinson (Sidebrow Books) > * > 8. *Rob the Plagiaristby Robert Fitterman (Roof Books) > * > 9. *Cop Kisserby Steven Zultanski (Book Thug) > * > 10. *The Rose Metal Press Field Guide to Prose Poetry: Contemporary > Poets in Discussion and Practiceby Gary L. McDowell and F. Daniel Rzicznek, Editors (Rose Metal Press) > * > 11. *Scary, No Scaryby Zachary Schomburg (Black Ocean) > * > 12. *Pleasureby Brian Teare (Ahsahta Press) > * > 13. *Chinese Notebookby Demosthenes Agrafiotis (Ugly Duckling Presse) > * > 14. *Public Domainby Monica de la Torre (Roof Books) > * > 15. *Sky Booths in the Breath Somewhere: The Ashbery Erasure Poemsby David Dodd Lee (BlazeVOX Books) > * > 16. *Ten Walks/Two Talksby Jon Cotner and Andy Fitch (Ugly Duckling Presse) > * > 17. *Mommy Must Be a Fountain of Feathersby Kim Hyesoon (Action Books) > * > 18. *Pink Elephantby Rachel McKibbens (Cypher Books) > * > 19. *The Bark of the Dogby Merrill Gilfillan (Flood Editions) > * > 20. *engulf?enkindleby Anja Utler (Burning Deck) > * > 21. *Cargoby Kristin Kelly (Elixir Press) > * > 22. *Song for His Disappeared Love/Canto a Su Amor Desaparecidoby Ra?l Zurita (Action Books) > * > 23. *Bathsheba Transatlanticby Sarah Wetzel (Anhinga Press) > * > 24. *obedienceby kari edwards (Factory School) > * > 25. *Hughson's Tavernby Fred Moten (Leon Works) > * > 26. *As It Turned Outby Dmitri Golynko (Ugly Duckling Presse) > * > 27. *This Time We Are Bothby Clark Coolidge (Ugly Duckling Presse) > * > 28. *Ventraklby Christian Hawkey (Ugly Duckling Presse) > * > 29. *We Are All Good if They Try Hard Enoughby Mike Young (Publishing Genius Press) > * > 30. *Iteration Netsby Karla Kelsey (Ahsahta Press) > * > > > CLICK HERE TO SEE NEW > POETRY the > latest and the greatest > > -- > Anny Ballardini > http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ > http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome > http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 > http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html > I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing > star! > Friedrich Nietzsche > > ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique > vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? > Giovenale > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From millb at aol.com Thu Dec 9 09:16:50 2010 From: millb at aol.com (Millicent) Date: Thu, 09 Dec 2010 09:16:50 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Interview and Review In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8CD65C2DAEEF17A-2488-9DCA@webmail-m057.sysops.aol.com> Hi, There's an interview with me and a review of my chapbook Woman on a Shaky Bridge up at Poets Quarterly! In the nterview I discuss travel and writing and the muse as well as how I piece together an income. http://www.poetsquarterly.com/ Thanks for checking it out-- Millicent -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lattaj at umich.edu Thu Dec 9 11:15:40 2010 From: lattaj at umich.edu (John Latta) Date: Thu, 9 Dec 2010 11:15:40 -0500 (EST) Subject: [New-Poetry] SPD Poetry Best-sellers In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Small Press Distribution, excellent source of small press poetry and fiction: http://www.spdbooks.org/ On Thu, 9 Dec 2010, Tad Richards wrote: > What's SPD? > > On Wed, Dec 8, 2010 at 2:30 PM, Anny Ballardini > wrote: > >> very happy to see that kari edwards is still strong and going >> >> SPD Poetry Best-sellers >> November >> 2010 >> >> 1. *Greenswardby Cole Swensen (Ugly Duckling Presse) >> * >> 2. *The Networkby Jena Osman (Fence Books) >> * >> 3. *The Baghdad Bluesby Sinan Antoon (Harbor Mountain Press) >> * >> 4. *A Cloud of Witnessesby Jason Stumpf (Quale Press) >> * >> 5. *Faceby Sherman Alexie (Hanging Loose Press) >> * >> 6. *Lyric Postmodernisms: An Anthology of Contemporary Innovative >> Poetriesby Reginald Shepherd, Editor (Counterpath Press) >> * >> 7. *Selenographyby Joshua Marie Wilkinson (Sidebrow Books) >> * >> 8. *Rob the Plagiaristby Robert Fitterman (Roof Books) >> * >> 9. *Cop Kisserby Steven Zultanski (Book Thug) >> * >> 10. *The Rose Metal Press Field Guide to Prose Poetry: Contemporary >> Poets in Discussion and Practiceby Gary L. McDowell and F. Daniel Rzicznek, Editors (Rose Metal Press) >> * >> 11. *Scary, No Scaryby Zachary Schomburg (Black Ocean) >> * >> 12. *Pleasureby Brian Teare (Ahsahta Press) >> * >> 13. *Chinese Notebookby Demosthenes Agrafiotis (Ugly Duckling Presse) >> * >> 14. *Public Domainby Monica de la Torre (Roof Books) >> * >> 15. *Sky Booths in the Breath Somewhere: The Ashbery Erasure Poemsby David Dodd Lee (BlazeVOX Books) >> * >> 16. *Ten Walks/Two Talksby Jon Cotner and Andy Fitch (Ugly Duckling Presse) >> * >> 17. *Mommy Must Be a Fountain of Feathersby Kim Hyesoon (Action Books) >> * >> 18. *Pink Elephantby Rachel McKibbens (Cypher Books) >> * >> 19. *The Bark of the Dogby Merrill Gilfillan (Flood Editions) >> * >> 20. *engulf?enkindleby Anja Utler (Burning Deck) >> * >> 21. *Cargoby Kristin Kelly (Elixir Press) >> * >> 22. *Song for His Disappeared Love/Canto a Su Amor Desaparecidoby Ra?l Zurita (Action Books) >> * >> 23. *Bathsheba Transatlanticby Sarah Wetzel (Anhinga Press) >> * >> 24. *obedienceby kari edwards (Factory School) >> * >> 25. *Hughson's Tavernby Fred Moten (Leon Works) >> * >> 26. *As It Turned Outby Dmitri Golynko (Ugly Duckling Presse) >> * >> 27. *This Time We Are Bothby Clark Coolidge (Ugly Duckling Presse) >> * >> 28. *Ventraklby Christian Hawkey (Ugly Duckling Presse) >> * >> 29. *We Are All Good if They Try Hard Enoughby Mike Young (Publishing Genius Press) >> * >> 30. *Iteration Netsby Karla Kelsey (Ahsahta Press) >> * >> >> >> CLICK HERE TO SEE NEW >> POETRY the >> latest and the greatest >> >> -- >> Anny Ballardini >> http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ >> http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome >> http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 >> http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html >> I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing >> star! >> Friedrich Nietzsche >> >> ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique >> vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? >> Giovenale >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > From Edward.Byrne at valpo.edu Thu Dec 9 11:37:34 2010 From: Edward.Byrne at valpo.edu (Edward Byrne) Date: Thu, 09 Dec 2010 10:37:34 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetry from Paradise Valley: A Holiday Gift of Poetry Message-ID: <4D00B16E0200006E0007BF01@gwdm1.valpo.edu> With the season for delivering presents upon us, I am honored to inform visitors that Pecan Grove Press has just released a gift for lovers of poetry, Poetry from Paradise Valley, an anthology of poems from the pages of Valparaiso Poetry Review. The table of contents for Poetry from Paradise Valley includes 50 poets whose works have appeared in various issues of VPR during its first decade of publication. A list of the poets represented in Poetry from Paradise Valley is located at the top of One Poet*s Notes. In addition, information for ordering can be found at the Pecan Grove Press web page for Poetry from Paradise Valley. I would recommend readers purchase a copy of the book as a holiday gift of poetry for another or as a present for oneself that will provide fine reading of poems at the beginning of a new year: http://www.facebook.com/l/29954tBImG9RRqSD2DaTP34PyYg;edwardbyrne.blogspot.com/2010/12/poetry-from-paradise-valley-holiday.html -------------------------------------------------- Edward Byrne Department of English 322 Huegli Hall Valparaiso University Valparaiso, IN 46383-6493 E-mail: edward.byrne at valpo.edu Home Page: http://www.valpo.edu/home/faculty/ebyrne/homepage/ Faculty Page: http://www.valpo.edu/english/faculty/byrne.php Latest Book: http://www.turningpointbooks.com/byrne.html Personal Blog: http://www.edwardbyrnepoetry.blogspot.com/ Editor, Valparaiso Poetry Review E-mail: vpr at valpo.edu VPR Web Page: http://www.valpo.edu/vpr/ VPR Editor's Blog: http://edwardbyrne.blogspot.com/ Office Phone: (219) 464-5278 Twitter: http://twitter.com/valpopoetry Fax: (219) 464-5511 -------------------------------------------------- -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From seamascain at gmail.com Thu Dec 9 11:45:22 2010 From: seamascain at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?S=E9amas_Cain?=) Date: Thu, 9 Dec 2010 10:45:22 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] ... to change is to survive Message-ID: _______________ CONDITION OF FIRE, by the Edinburgh poet JL Williams, inspired by Ovid?s Metamorphoses and written on the explosive Aeolian Isles, will be published by Shearsman Books of Exeter, England on January 15th of 2011. http://www.shearsman.com/pages/books/catalog/2011/williams.html http://jlwilliamspoetry.co.uk/ Ovid wrote his famous stories of change just before he was banished from his beloved Rome and after travelling and observing many diverse and vibrant landscapes. He may well have visited and was knowledgeable of the Aeolian Isles where volcanoes cast molten lava into turquoise seas, whipped by the winds of the god who made his home there. It was to these rapturous, Edenic and violently creative islands that JL Williams ventured to write the poems in this collection; poems inspired both directly by Ovid's tales and informing the new story that emerges from the old ... a post-apocalyptic vision of the earth where metamorphoses engender rebirth out of the ashen wasteland that humankind has made of the world. Ovid expressed the truth that to change is to survive, and this message erupts out of the poems in CONDITION OF FIRE, whose language and images strive to communicate in new ways the essential elements of myth, creation and the burning breath of being. _______________ CONDITION OF FIRE ... ISBN 13 : 9781848611450 ISBN 10 : 1848611455 Pre-order for 24% off, at ... http://www.bookdepository.co.uk/book/9781848611450/Condition-of-Fire For readers in the U.S. $10.65 For readers in Britain ?6.71 For readers in Europe ?7.62 Shipping is free anywhere in the world. _______________ CONDITION OF FIRE launches on ... 15 February 2011, London, England, Swedenborg Hall, 7:30 p.m. 26 February 2011, Edinburgh, Scotland, Scottish Poetry Library, 2:00 p.m. Everyone is welcome! _______________ With fiery regards, S?amas Cain http://seamascain-writernetwork.org From grahamd at ripon.edu Thu Dec 9 11:48:14 2010 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Thu, 09 Dec 2010 10:48:14 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Gray Jacobik at Poetry Daily Message-ID: A particularly luscious poem by Gray Jacobik at Poetry Daily today: http://poems.com/poem.php?date=14953 -- ==================================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.me.com/drjazz/ Poetry Library: http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ==================================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From htthinc at gmail.com Thu Dec 9 12:07:09 2010 From: htthinc at gmail.com (Paul Howell) Date: Thu, 9 Dec 2010 12:07:09 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Gray Jacobik at Poetry Daily In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I'm delighted to see this one. I was at the Frost Festival in 2002 when Gray was there. We spoke a lot, not least about scope, capaciousness, Steven Dobyn's essay on scope. Among many great poets at Frost those years - Muldoon, Ferris, Lea, Fairchild, ..., oh, yes, even David Graham - who all stood out, Gray stood out. On Thu, Dec 9, 2010 at 11:48 AM, David Graham wrote: > A particularly luscious poem by Gray Jacobik at Poetry Daily today: > > http://poems.com/poem.php?date=14953 > -- > > > ==================================================== > David Graham > grahamd at ripon.edu > Home Page: > http://web.me.com/drjazz/ > > Poetry Library: > http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html > ==================================================== > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Thu Dec 9 15:18:07 2010 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Thu, 9 Dec 2010 21:18:07 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] forwarded by Ana Bozicevic Message-ID: An announcement of Series II of Lost & Found! And consider purchasing Series I as a holiday gift? For Release Pub Date: March 3, 2011 * Lost & Found: The CUNY Poetics Documents Initiative Series II *Following the widespread success of the chapbooks *Series I *of *Lost & Found: The CUNY Poetics Documents Initiative*, the Center for the Humanities and the Ph.D. Program in English at The Graduate Center, CUNY, are pleased to announce another exciting series of texts in chapbook form?correspondence, journal entries, transcripts of lectures and unpublished manuscripts?by poets of the postwar era. *Lost & Found *emerged from archival and textual scholarship done by students, faculty and guest fellows at the Graduate Center. Printed in elegant, stapled editions, the first series of chapbooks put into wider circulation important but little-known texts drawn from personal and institutional archives of writers such as Amiri Baraka, Edward Dorn, Kenneth Koch, Frank O?Hara, Philip Whalen, Robert Creeley, Daphne Marlatt, and Muriel Rukeyser, whose unpublished essay on Charles Darwin (rejected by the *Nation* in 1953) was discovered in the New York Public Library?s Berg Collection by a Graduate Center doctoral student. This is the type of intervention that prompted the *London Review of Books *to call *Lost & Found* ?A serious and worthy enterprise?. universities should sponsor works like these, and graduate students should edit them, and people who care about these poets should read them." *Series II *of *Lost & Found* is equally exciting, featuring the following chapbooks: *Selections from *El Corno Emplumado / The Plumed Horn, ed. Margaret Randall *Diane di Prima: The Mysteries of Vision: Some Notes on H.D*., ed. Ana Bo?i?evi? *Diane di Prima: R.D.?s HD*, ed. Ammiel Alcalay *David Henderson: Umbra Extensions*, ed. Tonya Foster *Muriel Rukeyser: Spanish Civil War Scrapbook*, ed. Rowena Kennedy-Epstein J*ack Spicer?s Translation of *Beowulf: *Selections*, eds. David Hadbawnik and Sean Reynolds *Robert Duncan: Olson Memorial Lecture #4*, eds. Meira Levinson, Bradley Lubin, Megan Paslawski, Kyle Waugh, Rachael Wilson, and Ammiel Alcalay *Series II *of *Lost & Found* will publish concurrently with the Third Annual Chapbook Festival at The Graduate Center on March 3-4, 2011. A series of public conversations and a window display will be organized to launch the series. General Editor Ammiel Alcalay and Center for Humanities Executive Director Aoibheann Sweeney are available for interview on this groundbreaking project. Copies of Series I are available for institutional and bookstore sale at a discounted rate. Individual chapbooks retail at $10.00, or $35.00/set. Membership subscriptions with additional benefits are also available. Contact: Gavin Browning, Project Director, The Center for the Humanities, The Graduate Center, CUNY, gbrowning at gc.cuny.edu, 212 817 2023 -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fox.skip at gmail.com Thu Dec 9 16:12:10 2010 From: fox.skip at gmail.com (Skip Fox) Date: Thu, 9 Dec 2010 15:12:10 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] forwarded by Ana Bozicevic In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I forgot the full second quote by Williams to Flossie: "Even with others, I only thought of you. Please believe me." (The second sentence is a grace note.) On Thu, Dec 9, 2010 at 3:08 PM, Skip Fox wrote: > Wow. What a great idea! I'm ordering immediately. > > I have discovered amazing things in archives (e.g., Williams' letters to > Flossie while hospitalized for depression after stroke, found in > Bloomington's Lily Library, in one of which he writes: "There will never be > another. Not really" and in another "Even with others, I only thought of > you"). > > Here's a money maker for universities which have hosted and recorded a > number of readings/talks with noted poets: DVDs!!!! > > skip fox > > On Thu, Dec 9, 2010 at 2:18 PM, Anny Ballardini < > anny.ballardini at gmail.com> wrote: > >> An announcement of Series II of Lost & Found! And consider purchasing >> Series I as a holiday gift? >> >> >> >> >> For Release >> Pub Date: March 3, 2011 >> * >> Lost & Found: The CUNY Poetics Documents Initiative >> Series II >> >> *Following the widespread success of the chapbooks *Series I *of *Lost & >> Found: The CUNY Poetics Documents Initiative*, the Center for the >> Humanities and the Ph.D. Program in English at The Graduate Center, CUNY, >> are pleased to announce another exciting series of texts in chapbook >> form?correspondence, journal entries, transcripts of lectures and >> unpublished manuscripts?by poets of the postwar era. >> >> *Lost & Found *emerged from archival and textual scholarship done by >> students, faculty and guest fellows at the Graduate Center. Printed in >> elegant, stapled editions, the first series of chapbooks put into wider >> circulation important but little-known texts drawn from personal and >> institutional archives of writers such as Amiri Baraka, Edward Dorn, Kenneth >> Koch, Frank O?Hara, Philip Whalen, Robert Creeley, Daphne Marlatt, and >> Muriel Rukeyser, whose unpublished essay on Charles Darwin (rejected by the >> *Nation* in 1953) was discovered in the New York Public Library?s Berg >> Collection by a Graduate Center doctoral student. This is the type of >> intervention that prompted the *London Review of Books *to call *Lost & >> Found* ?A serious and worthy enterprise?. universities should sponsor >> works like these, and graduate students should edit them, and people who >> care about these poets should read them." >> >> *Series II *of *Lost & Found* is equally exciting, featuring the >> following chapbooks: >> >> *Selections from *El Corno Emplumado / The Plumed Horn, ed. Margaret >> Randall >> *Diane di Prima: The Mysteries of Vision: Some Notes on H.D*., ed. Ana >> Bo?i?evi? >> *Diane di Prima: R.D.?s HD*, ed. Ammiel Alcalay >> *David Henderson: Umbra Extensions*, ed. Tonya Foster >> *Muriel Rukeyser: Spanish Civil War Scrapbook*, ed. Rowena >> Kennedy-Epstein >> J*ack Spicer?s Translation of *Beowulf: *Selections*, eds. David >> Hadbawnik and Sean Reynolds >> *Robert Duncan: Olson Memorial Lecture #4*, eds. Meira Levinson, Bradley >> Lubin, Megan Paslawski, Kyle Waugh, Rachael Wilson, and Ammiel Alcalay >> >> *Series II *of *Lost & Found* will publish concurrently with the Third >> Annual Chapbook Festival at The Graduate Center on March 3-4, 2011. A series >> of public conversations and a window display will be organized to launch the >> series. >> >> General Editor Ammiel Alcalay and Center for Humanities Executive Director >> Aoibheann Sweeney are available for interview on this groundbreaking >> project. >> >> Copies of Series I are available for institutional and bookstore sale at a >> discounted rate. Individual chapbooks retail at $10.00, or $35.00/set. >> Membership subscriptions with additional benefits are also available. >> >> Contact: Gavin Browning, Project Director, The Center for the Humanities, >> The Graduate Center, CUNY, gbrowning at gc.cuny.edu, 212 817 2023 >> >> -- >> Anny Ballardini >> http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ >> http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome >> http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 >> http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html >> I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing >> star! >> Friedrich Nietzsche >> >> ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique >> vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? >> Giovenale >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fox.skip at gmail.com Thu Dec 9 16:08:11 2010 From: fox.skip at gmail.com (Skip Fox) Date: Thu, 9 Dec 2010 15:08:11 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] forwarded by Ana Bozicevic In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Wow. What a great idea! I'm ordering immediately. I have discovered amazing things in archives (e.g., Williams' letters to Flossie while hospitalized for depression after stroke, found in Bloomington's Lily Library, in one of which he writes: "There will never be another. Not really" and in another "Even with others, I only thought of you"). Here's a money maker for universities which have hosted and recorded a number of readings/talks with noted poets: DVDs!!!! skip fox On Thu, Dec 9, 2010 at 2:18 PM, Anny Ballardini wrote: > An announcement of Series II of Lost & Found! And consider purchasing > Series I as a holiday gift? > > > > > For Release > Pub Date: March 3, 2011 > * > Lost & Found: The CUNY Poetics Documents Initiative > Series II > > *Following the widespread success of the chapbooks *Series I *of *Lost & > Found: The CUNY Poetics Documents Initiative*, the Center for the > Humanities and the Ph.D. Program in English at The Graduate Center, CUNY, > are pleased to announce another exciting series of texts in chapbook > form?correspondence, journal entries, transcripts of lectures and > unpublished manuscripts?by poets of the postwar era. > > *Lost & Found *emerged from archival and textual scholarship done by > students, faculty and guest fellows at the Graduate Center. Printed in > elegant, stapled editions, the first series of chapbooks put into wider > circulation important but little-known texts drawn from personal and > institutional archives of writers such as Amiri Baraka, Edward Dorn, Kenneth > Koch, Frank O?Hara, Philip Whalen, Robert Creeley, Daphne Marlatt, and > Muriel Rukeyser, whose unpublished essay on Charles Darwin (rejected by the > *Nation* in 1953) was discovered in the New York Public Library?s Berg > Collection by a Graduate Center doctoral student. This is the type of > intervention that prompted the *London Review of Books *to call *Lost & > Found* ?A serious and worthy enterprise?. universities should sponsor > works like these, and graduate students should edit them, and people who > care about these poets should read them." > > *Series II *of *Lost & Found* is equally exciting, featuring the following > chapbooks: > > *Selections from *El Corno Emplumado / The Plumed Horn, ed. Margaret > Randall > *Diane di Prima: The Mysteries of Vision: Some Notes on H.D*., ed. Ana > Bo?i?evi? > *Diane di Prima: R.D.?s HD*, ed. Ammiel Alcalay > *David Henderson: Umbra Extensions*, ed. Tonya Foster > *Muriel Rukeyser: Spanish Civil War Scrapbook*, ed. Rowena Kennedy-Epstein > J*ack Spicer?s Translation of *Beowulf: *Selections*, eds. David Hadbawnik > and Sean Reynolds > *Robert Duncan: Olson Memorial Lecture #4*, eds. Meira Levinson, Bradley > Lubin, Megan Paslawski, Kyle Waugh, Rachael Wilson, and Ammiel Alcalay > > *Series II *of *Lost & Found* will publish concurrently with the Third > Annual Chapbook Festival at The Graduate Center on March 3-4, 2011. A series > of public conversations and a window display will be organized to launch the > series. > > General Editor Ammiel Alcalay and Center for Humanities Executive Director > Aoibheann Sweeney are available for interview on this groundbreaking > project. > > Copies of Series I are available for institutional and bookstore sale at a > discounted rate. Individual chapbooks retail at $10.00, or $35.00/set. > Membership subscriptions with additional benefits are also available. > > Contact: Gavin Browning, Project Director, The Center for the Humanities, > The Graduate Center, CUNY, gbrowning at gc.cuny.edu, 212 817 2023 > > -- > Anny Ballardini > http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ > http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome > http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 > http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html > I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing > star! > Friedrich Nietzsche > > ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique > vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? > Giovenale > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Thu Dec 9 16:27:53 2010 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Thu, 9 Dec 2010 22:27:53 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] forwarded by Ana Bozicevic In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Lovely quotations. On Thu, Dec 9, 2010 at 10:12 PM, Skip Fox wrote: > I forgot the full second quote by Williams to Flossie: "Even with others, I > only thought of you. Please believe me." (The second sentence is a grace > note.) > > On Thu, Dec 9, 2010 at 3:08 PM, Skip Fox wrote: > >> Wow. What a great idea! I'm ordering immediately. >> >> I have discovered amazing things in archives (e.g., Williams' letters to >> Flossie while hospitalized for depression after stroke, found in >> Bloomington's Lily Library, in one of which he writes: "There will never be >> another. Not really" and in another "Even with others, I only thought of >> you"). >> >> Here's a money maker for universities which have hosted and recorded a >> number of readings/talks with noted poets: DVDs!!!! >> >> skip fox >> >> On Thu, Dec 9, 2010 at 2:18 PM, Anny Ballardini < >> anny.ballardini at gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> An announcement of Series II of Lost & Found! And consider purchasing >>> Series I as a holiday gift? >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> For Release >>> Pub Date: March 3, 2011 >>> * >>> Lost & Found: The CUNY Poetics Documents Initiative >>> Series II >>> >>> *Following the widespread success of the chapbooks *Series I *of *Lost & >>> Found: The CUNY Poetics Documents Initiative*, the Center for the >>> Humanities and the Ph.D. Program in English at The Graduate Center, CUNY, >>> are pleased to announce another exciting series of texts in chapbook >>> form?correspondence, journal entries, transcripts of lectures and >>> unpublished manuscripts?by poets of the postwar era. >>> >>> *Lost & Found *emerged from archival and textual scholarship done by >>> students, faculty and guest fellows at the Graduate Center. Printed in >>> elegant, stapled editions, the first series of chapbooks put into wider >>> circulation important but little-known texts drawn from personal and >>> institutional archives of writers such as Amiri Baraka, Edward Dorn, Kenneth >>> Koch, Frank O?Hara, Philip Whalen, Robert Creeley, Daphne Marlatt, and >>> Muriel Rukeyser, whose unpublished essay on Charles Darwin (rejected by the >>> *Nation* in 1953) was discovered in the New York Public Library?s Berg >>> Collection by a Graduate Center doctoral student. This is the type of >>> intervention that prompted the *London Review of Books *to call *Lost & >>> Found* ?A serious and worthy enterprise?. universities should sponsor >>> works like these, and graduate students should edit them, and people who >>> care about these poets should read them." >>> >>> *Series II *of *Lost & Found* is equally exciting, featuring the >>> following chapbooks: >>> >>> *Selections from *El Corno Emplumado / The Plumed Horn, ed. Margaret >>> Randall >>> *Diane di Prima: The Mysteries of Vision: Some Notes on H.D*., ed. Ana >>> Bo?i?evi? >>> *Diane di Prima: R.D.?s HD*, ed. Ammiel Alcalay >>> *David Henderson: Umbra Extensions*, ed. Tonya Foster >>> *Muriel Rukeyser: Spanish Civil War Scrapbook*, ed. Rowena >>> Kennedy-Epstein >>> J*ack Spicer?s Translation of *Beowulf: *Selections*, eds. David >>> Hadbawnik and Sean Reynolds >>> *Robert Duncan: Olson Memorial Lecture #4*, eds. Meira Levinson, Bradley >>> Lubin, Megan Paslawski, Kyle Waugh, Rachael Wilson, and Ammiel Alcalay >>> >>> *Series II *of *Lost & Found* will publish concurrently with the Third >>> Annual Chapbook Festival at The Graduate Center on March 3-4, 2011. A series >>> of public conversations and a window display will be organized to launch the >>> series. >>> >>> General Editor Ammiel Alcalay and Center for Humanities Executive >>> Director Aoibheann Sweeney are available for interview on this >>> groundbreaking project. >>> >>> Copies of Series I are available for institutional and bookstore sale at >>> a discounted rate. Individual chapbooks retail at $10.00, or $35.00/set. >>> Membership subscriptions with additional benefits are also available. >>> >>> Contact: Gavin Browning, Project Director, The Center for the Humanities, >>> The Graduate Center, CUNY, gbrowning at gc.cuny.edu, 212 817 2023 >>> >>> -- >>> Anny Ballardini >>> http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ >>> http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome >>> http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 >>> http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html >>> I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing >>> star! >>> Friedrich Nietzsche >>> >>> ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique >>> vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? >>> Giovenale >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> New-Poetry mailing list >>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>> >>> >> > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Fri Dec 10 11:21:42 2010 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Fri, 10 Dec 2010 17:21:42 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Liu Xiaobo Message-ID: - Liu Xia telling the story of Chinese authorities confiscating Liu Xiaobo's work , recorded in Beijing, March 2010 - Readings by Liu Xia and Victoria Redel of the poem "Greed's Prisoner " - Liu Xiaobo on freedom of expression in China, 2006 - Writers Rally for Liu Xiaobo, New York, December 31, 2010 - "Words a Cell Can't Hold," translated by Jeffrey Yang Check out www.pen.org/nobel for more multimedia, Liu's poetry, and continued updates on his case. In solidarity, Larry Siems PEN Freedom to Write & International Programs Director -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd at ripon.edu Fri Dec 10 16:29:05 2010 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Fri, 10 Dec 2010 15:29:05 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Dean Young Message-ID: <6FEBCD01-856E-488C-BDBF-CD0B9CDA5EF9@ripon.edu> I don't remember seeing any notice here of Dean Young's current situation. Anyway, he's very sick & in dire need of a heart transplant, it seems. Tony Hoagland has posted an open letter about it all, with an appeal for donations: http://www.transplants.org/donate/deanyoung I also happened across the following, a letter Dean Young wrote years ago to his nephew about the life of a poet. Well worth reading, whether you're a Dean Young fan or not: http://thenewsavagery.blogspot.com/2010/12/letter-from-uncle-dean.html ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.me.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From amyhappens at yahoo.com Fri Dec 10 18:52:00 2010 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king) Date: Fri, 10 Dec 2010 15:52:00 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] New Poem @ Harp & Altar -- New Issue / Harp & Altar Message-ID: <909989.35711.qm@web83304.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Necessary Instinct -- http://www.harpandaltar.com/interior.php?t=p&i=8&p=69&e=214 Harp & Altar Roseanne Carrara Curses To a Translator of Horace The End of the Novel Andy Fitch from Island Freshly Raked The Cloisters Apartments for Sale Geometry of the Lemon Jimmy Carter Attitude Eileen G?Sell Sunday Blanket Praise Amy King Necessary Instinct Jesse Lichtenstein Cause Effect Stephen Sturgeon Three Elegies for Landis Everson The Clothes of Coronado Moustache The Chronicles of Hugo Flake G.C. Waldrep On Liberalism Richard Kostelanetz from FICT/IONS Lawrence Mark Lane Slurry Charles Newman from In Partial Disgrace Mr. Mooks and the Tyrant Voo Leslie Patron from The SeaMaids Boy Scientist / [bisection sty] Rob Stephenson The Signals Jessica Baran Learning Again What We Think We Know: Brandon Downing?s Lake Antiquity Dan Magers Paul Fucking Killebrew: Some Flowers Patrick Morrissey Time as a Movie: New Books by Ben Mazer Michael Newton The Galleries Lauren Russell The City Has No Memory of You: Kostas Anagnopoulos?s Moving Blanket http://www.harpandaltar.com/ ********* VIDA: Women in Literary Arts + Interviews Amy's Alias + http://amyking.org/ ******** -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Fri Dec 10 19:39:48 2010 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Fri, 10 Dec 2010 19:39:48 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Dean Young In-Reply-To: <6FEBCD01-856E-488C-BDBF-CD0B9CDA5EF9@ripon.edu> References: <6FEBCD01-856E-488C-BDBF-CD0B9CDA5EF9@ripon.edu> Message-ID: <8CD66E30CA37EDE-8D0-C6BD@webmail-m040.sysops.aol.com> nSorry to hear that. I hope he gets that transplant. Thanks for letting list know. I've been meaning to post a few excerpts from his recent treatise, The Art of Recklesness I'll try to do that this week. Finnega -----Original Message----- From: David Graham To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu &Views Sent: Fri, Dec 10, 2010 4:29 pm Subject: [New-Poetry] Dean Young I don't remember seeing any notice here of Dean Young's current situation. Anyway, he's very sick & in dire need of a heart transplant, it seems. Tony Hoagland has posted an open letter about it all, with an appeal for donations: http://www.transplants.org/donate/deanyoung I also happened across the following, a letter Dean Young wrote years ago to his nephew about the life of a poet. Well worth reading, whether you're a Dean Young fan or not: http://thenewsavagery.blogspot.com/2010/12/letter-from-uncle-dean.html ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.me.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== = _______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Fri Dec 10 20:55:50 2010 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Fri, 10 Dec 2010 20:55:50 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] forwarded by Ana Bozicevic In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8CD66EDABBD151A-8D0-D30A@webmail-m040.sysops.aol.com> That's a really interesting publishing project. I have the Rukeyser essay on Darwin. I think I will fill out the set. Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: Anny Ballardini To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &,Views Sent: Thu, Dec 9, 2010 3:18 pm Subject: [New-Poetry] forwarded by Ana Bozicevic An announcement of Series II of Lost & Found! And consider purchasing Series I as a holiday gift? For Release Pub Date: March 3, 2011 Lost & Found: The CUNY Poetics Documents Initiative Series II Following the widespread success of the chapbooks Series I of Lost & Found: The CUNY Poetics Documents Initiative, the Center for the Humanities and the Ph.D. Program in English at The Graduate Center, CUNY, are pleased to announce another exciting series of texts in chapbook form?correspondence, journal entries, transcripts of lectures and unpublished manuscripts?by poets of the postwar era. Lost & Found emerged from archival and textual scholarship done by students, faculty and guest fellows at the Graduate Center. Printed in elegant, stapled editions, the first series of chapbooks put into wider circulation important but little-known texts drawn from personal and institutional archives of writers such as Amiri Baraka, Edward Dorn, Kenneth Koch, Frank O?Hara, Philip Whalen, Robert Creeley, Daphne Marlatt, and Muriel Rukeyser, whose unpublished essay on Charles Darwin (rejected by the Nation in 1953) was discovered in the New York Public Library?s Berg Collection by a Graduate Center doctoral student. This is the type of intervention that prompted the London Review of Books to call Lost & Found ?A serious and worthy enterprise?. universities should sponsor works like these, and graduate students should edit them, and people who care about these poets should read them." Series II of Lost & Found is equally exciting, featuring the following chapbooks: Selections from El Corno Emplumado / The Plumed Horn, ed. Margaret Randall Diane di Prima: The Mysteries of Vision: Some Notes on H.D., ed. Ana Bo?i?evi? Diane di Prima: R.D.?s HD, ed. Ammiel Alcalay David Henderson: Umbra Extensions, ed. Tonya Foster Muriel Rukeyser: Spanish Civil War Scrapbook, ed. Rowena Kennedy-Epstein Jack Spicer?s Translation of Beowulf: Selections, eds. David Hadbawnik and Sean Reynolds Robert Duncan: Olson Memorial Lecture #4, eds. Meira Levinson, Bradley Lubin, Megan Paslawski, Kyle Waugh, Rachael Wilson, and Ammiel Alcalay Series II of Lost & Found will publish concurrently with the Third Annual Chapbook Festival at The Graduate Center on March 3-4, 2011. A series of public conversations and a window display will be organized to launch the series. General Editor Ammiel Alcalay and Center for Humanities Executive Director Aoibheann Sweeney are available for interview on this groundbreaking project. Copies of Series I are available for institutional and bookstore sale at a discounted rate. Individual chapbooks retail at $10.00, or $35.00/set. Membership subscriptions with additional benefits are also available. Contact: Gavin Browning, Project Director, The Center for the Humanities, The Graduate Center, CUNY, gbrowning at gc.cuny.edu, 212 817 2023 -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale _______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Fri Dec 10 21:15:02 2010 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Fri, 10 Dec 2010 21:15:02 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Liu Xiaobo In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8CD66F05A7886C7-8D0-D62F@webmail-m040.sysops.aol.com> http://www.mediabistro.com/galleycat/graywolf-press-to-publish-liu-xiaobo-poetry-collection_b18973 Graywolf Press has acquired the world rights (excluding Chinese languages) to a poetry collection by imprisoned Chinese poet, Liu Xiaobo. Today the poet received the Nobel Peace Prize, but could not accept the award in person. -----Original Message----- From: Anny Ballardini To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &,Views Sent: Fri, Dec 10, 2010 11:21 am Subject: [New-Poetry] Liu Xiaobo Liu Xia telling the story of Chinese authorities confiscating Liu Xiaobo's work, recorded in Beijing, March 2010 Readings by Liu Xia and Victoria Redel of the poem "Greed's Prisoner" Liu Xiaobo on freedom of expression in China, 2006 Writers Rally for Liu Xiaobo, New York, December 31, 2010 "Words a Cell Can't Hold," translated by Jeffrey Yang Check out www.pen.org/nobel for more multimedia, Liu's poetry, and continued updates on his case. In solidarity, Larry Siems PEN Freedom to Write & International Programs Director -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale _______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Fri Dec 10 22:26:16 2010 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Fri, 10 Dec 2010 22:26:16 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Emily and her dog In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8CD66FA4DDFEEB1-8D0-DFC8@webmail-m040.sysops.aol.com> It's a real bodice dripper. -----Original Message----- From: Tad Richards To: NewPoetry List Sent: Thu, Dec 9, 2010 9:05 am Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Emily and her dog Never saw that one before -- strange and wonderful. On Wed, Dec 8, 2010 at 2:34 PM, Anny Ballardini wrote: I started Early ? Took my Dog ? by Emily Dickinson I started Early - Took my Dog - And visited the Sea - The Mermaids in the Basement Came out to look at me - And Frigates - in the Upper Floor Extended Hempen Hands - Presuming Me to be a Mouse - Aground - opon the Sands - But no Man moved Me - till the Tide Went past my simple Shoe - And past my Apron - and my Belt And past my Boddice - too - And made as He would eat me up - As wholly as a Dew Opon a Dandelion's Sleeve - And then - I started - too - And He - He followed - close behind - I felt His Silver Heel Opon my Ancle - Then My Shoes Would overflow with Pearl - Until We met the Solid Town - No One He seemed to know - And bowing - with a Mighty look - At me - The Sea withdrew - "I started Early ? Took my Dog ?" by Emily Dickinson. Public domain. (buy now) -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tichaona at inthewhirlwind.com Sat Dec 11 06:52:15 2010 From: tichaona at inthewhirlwind.com (Tichaona Chinyelu) Date: Sat, 11 Dec 2010 04:52:15 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Contraband Marriage Message-ID: <20101211045215.06739fca92e8a33e1cdb4ae2881c2177.78208e12b4.wbe@email01.secureserver.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Sat Dec 11 16:06:02 2010 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sat, 11 Dec 2010 22:06:02 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Is American Poetry at a Dead End? Message-ID: Prominent poets speak out by Anis Shivanic http://www.huffingtonpost.com/anis-shivani/american-poetry-dead-end_b_794033.html -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sat Dec 11 18:07:17 2010 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Sat, 11 Dec 2010 18:07:17 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Is American Poetry at a Dead End? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4D040425.7010206@nut-n-but.net> On 12/11/2010 4:06 PM, Anny Ballardini wrote: > Prominent poets speak out by Anis Shivanic > http://www.huffingtonpost.com/anis-shivani/american-poetry-dead-end_b_794033.html Nothing there that I haven't read twenty times or more. Very little that made me think any of the "prominent poets" or host of comment-makers has much of an idea of contemporary poetry outside Wilshberia, or even there. But my main conclusion from reading the material at the site is that the question asked is stupid. It's like asking what the best collections of poetry of a year just ended (or ending) are. No one can know about all the collections published in the latest year much less have had sufficient time properly to evaluate those few they /are /aware of. The question that should have been asked is whether or not poetry was dead at the end of 1990. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From alexdickow9 at yahoo.com Sat Dec 11 18:14:41 2010 From: alexdickow9 at yahoo.com (Alexander Dickow) Date: Sat, 11 Dec 2010 15:14:41 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] Is American Poetry at a Dead End? In-Reply-To: <4D040425.7010206@nut-n-but.net> References: <4D040425.7010206@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <824435.90800.qm@web35501.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hear, hear. People are in a big rush these days to talk about "best of 2010s" and the like; I think it's just a plain load of hooey. Amicalement, Alex ? www.alexdickow.net/blog/ les mots! ah quel d?sert ? la fin merveilleux. -- Henri Droguet ________________________________ From: Bob Grumman To: NewPoetry List Sent: Sun, December 12, 2010 12:07:17 AM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Is American Poetry at a Dead End? On 12/11/2010 4:06 PM, Anny Ballardini wrote: Prominent poets speak out by Anis Shivanic >http://www.huffingtonpost.com/anis-shivani/american-poetry-dead-end_b_794033.html > > Nothing there that I haven't read twenty times or more.? Very little that made me think any of the "prominent poets" or host of comment-makers has much of an idea of contemporary poetry outside Wilshberia, or even there.? But my main conclusion from reading the material at the site is that the question asked is stupid.? It's like asking what the best collections of poetry of a year just ended (or ending) are.? No one can know about all the collections published in the latest year much less have had sufficient time properly to evaluate those few they are aware of.? The question that should have been asked is whether or not poetry was dead at the end of 1990.? --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at gmail.com Sat Dec 11 18:49:41 2010 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Sat, 11 Dec 2010 17:49:41 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Is American Poetry at a Dead End? In-Reply-To: <824435.90800.qm@web35501.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <4D040425.7010206@nut-n-but.net> <824435.90800.qm@web35501.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Let me add my list of the top ten of the 2010s: 2001 2002 2003 2004 2005 2006 2007 2008 2009 2010 That last isn't over yet, so I'm less sure of it than the others. Hal "A sudden silence in the middle of a conversation suddenly brings us back to essentials: it reveals how dearly we must pay for the invention of speech." --E. M. Cioran Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home *Mainly Black , **Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ;* *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; * ***Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; * ***G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; * *Transparencies & Projections * On Sat, Dec 11, 2010 at 5:14 PM, Alexander Dickow wrote: > Hear, hear. People are in a big rush these days to talk about "best of > 2010s" and the like; I think it's just a plain load of hooey. > Amicalement, > Alex > > www.alexdickow.net/blog/ > > les mots! ah quel d?sert ? la fin > merveilleux. -- Henri Droguet > > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Bob Grumman > *To:* NewPoetry List > *Sent:* Sun, December 12, 2010 12:07:17 AM > *Subject:* Re: [New-Poetry] Is American Poetry at a Dead End? > > On 12/11/2010 4:06 PM, Anny Ballardini wrote: > > Prominent poets speak out by Anis Shivanic > > http://www.huffingtonpost.com/anis-shivani/american-poetry-dead-end_b_794033.html > > > Nothing there that I haven't read twenty times or more. Very little that > made me think any of the "prominent poets" or host of comment-makers has > much of an idea of contemporary poetry outside Wilshberia, or even there. > But my main conclusion from reading the material at the site is that the > question asked is stupid. It's like asking what the best collections of > poetry of a year just ended (or ending) are. No one can know about all the > collections published in the latest year much less have had sufficient time > properly to evaluate those few they *are *aware of. The question that > should have been asked is whether or not poetry was dead at the end of > 1990. > > --Bob > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd at ripon.edu Sat Dec 11 19:01:10 2010 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Sat, 11 Dec 2010 18:01:10 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Is American Poetry at a Dead End? In-Reply-To: <824435.90800.qm@web35501.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <4D040425.7010206@nut-n-but.net> <824435.90800.qm@web35501.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <6815C2AC-2D8C-48B7-9D68-86B4BF311683@ripon.edu> I haven't yet read the article, but I'll be surprised if it tells me anything I don't know. The phrase in the headline, "Prominent Poets Speak Out," is surely a bad sign. "Speak out" is, along with "untold story," journalese for "let's repackage some truisms, sweeping generalities and old controversies to see if we can fill out a column." Always puzzles me why journals are so drawn to speaking over poetry's corpse. Why don't they go pick on dance or pottery for a while? Here's an as yet unpublished poem I wrote years back after reading one of these clockwork complaints. In this case it was Joseph Epstein who had concluded that poetry no longer mattered. Poor, poor poetry! On The Reported Death Of Poetry . . . it was during the 1950's that poetry last had this religious aura. --Joseph Epstein, "Who Killed Poetry?" Look, I've brought a little gift for you, Poetry?bit of seashell worn smooth as a lip; and more to come, lint on a windowsill, soundings of woodthrush at dusk, lawnmowers distant as the music of the spheres. . . . Poetry, only you can tie such bootlaces, only you witness mudflakes shaken off by the dog, snatch of Bach fading under the announcer's cheerful catastrophes. I bring you the swish of a nightgown to the floor, cool drift of cloud over one grave, the moment when a boy's liquid nattering first coalesces into a sentence. I bring you valediction and animal blurt, I commend you to God in a whirlwind and the squirrel-chitter rhythms of Thelonious Monk: Nutty, Blue Sphere, and Ugly Beauty above all. Poetry, you've died so many times, each age preceded by a better, giants of utterance walking profligate earth. You would think we'd tire of the visionary funeral, but here we come to the wake in our shiny black suits, now we loosen our ties and, as the first fire of scotch warms our throats, begin again the old stories, fruit-heavy bough and golden stranger at the door. ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.me.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sat Dec 11 19:13:30 2010 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Sat, 11 Dec 2010 19:13:30 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Is American Poetry at a Dead End? In-Reply-To: <6815C2AC-2D8C-48B7-9D68-86B4BF311683@ripon.edu> References: <4D040425.7010206@nut-n-but.net><824435.90800.qm@web355 01.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <6815C2AC-2D8C-48B7-9D68-86B4BF311683@ripon.edu> Message-ID: <4D0413AA.2070805@nut-n-but.net> Fine poem. I especially like "lawnmowers/ distant as the music of the spheres." Related question: is mathematics dead because mathematics conventions draw so few people--few but specialists? Or is it thriving because Sudoku puzzles are in just about every daily paper? > > > *On The Reported Death Of Poetry* > > . . . /it was during the 1950's that poetry last had this religious aura./ > --Joseph Epstein, "Who Killed Poetry?" > > > Look, I've brought a little gift for you, > Poetry?bit of seashell worn smooth > as a lip; and more to come, lint > on a windowsill, soundings > of woodthrush at dusk, lawnmowers > distant as the music of the spheres. . . . > > Poetry, only you can tie such bootlaces, > only you witness mudflakes > shaken off by the dog, snatch of Bach > fading under the announcer's > cheerful catastrophes. > > I bring you the swish of a nightgown > to the floor, cool drift of cloud > over one grave, the moment when > a boy's liquid nattering > first coalesces into a sentence. > > I bring you valediction > and animal blurt, I commend > you to God in a whirlwind > and the squirrel-chitter rhythms > of Thelonious Monk: /Nutty/, /Blue / > /Sphere/, and /Ugly Beauty/above all. > > Poetry, you've died so many times, > each age preceded by a better, giants > of utterance walking profligate earth. > You would think we'd tire > of the visionary funeral, but here > we come to the wake in our shiny > black suits, now we loosen our ties > and, as the first fire of scotch > warms our throats, begin again > the old stories, fruit-heavy bough > and golden stranger at the door. > > > > ======================================== > David Graham > grahamd at ripon.edu > > Home Page: > http://web.me.com/drjazz > > Poetry Library: > http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html > ========================================== > > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sat Dec 11 19:15:23 2010 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Sat, 11 Dec 2010 19:15:23 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Is American Poetry at a Dead End? In-Reply-To: <824435.90800.qm@web35501.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <4D040425.7010206@nut-n-but.net> <824435.90800.qm@web35501.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4D04141B.50602@nut-n-but.net> On 12/11/2010 6:14 PM, Alexander Dickow wrote: > Hear, hear. People are in a big rush these days to talk about "best of > 2010s" and the like; I think it's just a plain load of hooey. > Amicalement, > Alex Thanks, Alex. I posted my comment at the Hunting Post--but I changed "stupid" to "flawed?" Am I growing up? --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sheilafblack at hotmail.com Sat Dec 11 19:27:46 2010 From: sheilafblack at hotmail.com (sheila black) Date: Sun, 12 Dec 2010 00:27:46 +0000 Subject: [New-Poetry] Is American Poetry at a Dead End? In-Reply-To: <6815C2AC-2D8C-48B7-9D68-86B4BF311683@ripon.edu> References: , <4D040425.7010206@nut-n-but.net>, <824435.90800.qm@web35501.mail.mud.yahoo.com>, <6815C2AC-2D8C-48B7-9D68-86B4BF311683@ripon.edu> Message-ID: I read the article, and it did not tell me anything I didn't know-*sigh*-especially since when the "prominent poets" spoke out what they seemed to be saying was: 1. You should just lock yourself in a room and keep writing and pay no attention to articles like this one; and 2. those modernists are/were regular people, too-- pretty thin stuff on the whole....and nothing which addressed with any degree of specific scholarship or hard thought what might possibly be said about the current poetry moment. I do like the idea of a flurry press-wise about "the corpse of pottery" though-- S. From: grahamd at ripon.edu Date: Sat, 11 Dec 2010 18:01:10 -0600 To: new-poetry at charlemagne.cddc.vt.edu Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Is American Poetry at a Dead End? I haven't yet read the article, but I'll be surprised if it tells me anything I don't know. The phrase in the headline, "Prominent Poets Speak Out," is surely a bad sign. "Speak out" is, along with "untold story," journalese for "let's repackage some truisms, sweeping generalities and old controversies to see if we can fill out a column." Always puzzles me why journals are so drawn to speaking over poetry's corpse. Why don't they go pick on dance or pottery for a while? Here's an as yet unpublished poem I wrote years back after reading one of these clockwork complaints. In this case it was Joseph Epstein who had concluded that poetry no longer mattered. Poor, poor poetry! On The Reported Death Of Poetry . . . it was during the 1950's that poetry last had this religious aura. --Joseph Epstein, "Who Killed Poetry?" Look, I've brought a little gift for you, Poetry?bit of seashell worn smoothas a lip; and more to come, lint on a windowsill, soundingsof woodthrush at dusk, lawnmowers distant as the music of the spheres. . . . Poetry, only you can tie such bootlaces, only you witness mudflakes shaken off by the dog, snatch of Bachfading under the announcer'scheerful catastrophes. I bring you the swish of a nightgown to the floor, cool drift of cloud over one grave, the moment whena boy's liquid natteringfirst coalesces into a sentence. I bring you valedictionand animal blurt, I commendyou to God in a whirlwindand the squirrel-chitter rhythmsof Thelonious Monk: Nutty, Blue Sphere, and Ugly Beauty above all. Poetry, you've died so many times, each age preceded by a better, giants of utterance walking profligate earth. You would think we'd tire of the visionary funeral, but here we come to the wake in our shiny black suits, now we loosen our tiesand, as the first fire of scotchwarms our throats, begin againthe old stories, fruit-heavy boughand golden stranger at the door. ========================================David Grahamgrahamd at ripon.eduHome Page:http://web.me.com/drjazzPoetry Library:http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html========================================== _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From atelierjewelweed at gmail.com Sat Dec 11 20:20:45 2010 From: atelierjewelweed at gmail.com (Suzanne Burns) Date: Sat, 11 Dec 2010 20:20:45 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Is American Poetry at a Dead End? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I liked what Elaine Equi had to say: "I'm pretty confident about the resilience and adaptability of American poetry in the 21st century. It's movies and TV I'm worried about." Pretty much speaks my mind on this. I agree with her that we may in fact be at the beginning of something very new and fresh with collaborative writing, etc. For the rest, none of it seemed new, Haven't they been saying all of this since at least the 80's? And what do you say to someone who says "resist careerism" when she herself is sitting on a rather nicely cultivated career? Suzanne On Sat, Dec 11, 2010 at 4:06 PM, Anny Ballardini wrote: > Prominent poets speak out by Anis Shivanic > http://www.huffingtonpost.com/anis-shivani/american-poetry-dead-end_b_794033.html > > -- > Anny Ballardini > http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ > http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome > http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 > http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html > I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing > star! > Friedrich Nietzsche > > ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique > vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? > Giovenale > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sat Dec 11 21:20:08 2010 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Sat, 11 Dec 2010 21:20:08 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Is American Poetry at a Dead End? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4D043158.7050104@nut-n-but.net> On 12/11/2010 8:20 PM, Suzanne Burns wrote: > I liked what Elaine Equi had to say: "I'm pretty confident about the > resilience and adaptability of American poetry in the 21st century. > It's movies and TV I'm worried about." Actually, animated visual poetry may be the most advanced cultural adventure going--so much so that I know hardly anything about it. Certainly it has tremendous potential. And when you consider that computer games are movies, and rapidly developing, if you have any imagination at all, you have to be excited about where they'll go. --Bob From chris at chrislott.org Sun Dec 12 00:11:26 2010 From: chris at chrislott.org (Chris Lott) Date: Sat, 11 Dec 2010 20:11:26 -0900 Subject: [New-Poetry] Is American Poetry at a Dead End? In-Reply-To: <824435.90800.qm@web35501.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <4D040425.7010206@nut-n-but.net> <824435.90800.qm@web35501.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I think it depends on the spirit in which such lists are intended. I love to hear people's "top X" of 2010 lists-- it's a valuable pointer to things that might be worth reading, hearing, or seeing. As long as they don't think they are making a list for the ages, why take all the fun out of it? c On Sat, Dec 11, 2010 at 2:14 PM, Alexander Dickow wrote: > Hear, hear. People are in a big rush these days to talk about "best of > 2010s" and the like; I think it's just a plain load of hooey. > Amicalement, > Alex > > www.alexdickow.net/blog/ > > les mots! ah quel d?sert ? la fin > merveilleux. -- Henri Droguet > > ________________________________ > From: Bob Grumman > To: NewPoetry List > Sent: Sun, December 12, 2010 12:07:17 AM > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Is American Poetry at a Dead End? > > On 12/11/2010 4:06 PM, Anny Ballardini wrote: > > Prominent poets speak out by Anis Shivanic > http://www.huffingtonpost.com/anis-shivani/american-poetry-dead-end_b_794033.html > > Nothing there that I haven't read twenty times or more.? Very little that > made me think any of the "prominent poets" or host of comment-makers has > much of an idea of contemporary poetry outside Wilshberia, or even there. > But my main conclusion from reading the material at the site is that the > question asked is stupid.? It's like asking what the best collections of > poetry of a year just ended (or ending) are.? No one can know about all the > collections published in the latest year much less have had sufficient time > properly to evaluate those few they are aware of.? The question that should > have been asked is whether or not poetry was dead at the end of 1990. > > --Bob > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > From alexdickow9 at yahoo.com Sun Dec 12 03:51:05 2010 From: alexdickow9 at yahoo.com (Alexander Dickow) Date: Sun, 12 Dec 2010 00:51:05 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] Is American Poetry at a Dead End? In-Reply-To: References: <4D040425.7010206@nut-n-but.net> <824435.90800.qm@web35501.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <348343.56252.qm@web35508.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I'm not convinced, Chris. "Best of" lists?almost never tell us anything about the criteria of selection; if I'm looking for new good stuff to read, I take my cues from reviews or poems in journals I like, not best of lists. As someone pointed out, these lists have no redundancy: on the outside, they are arbitrary picks (minus the usual hideous lack of women writers, etc.). If I had an?All-po bookstore nearby to browse?at,?such lists might orient me to certain titles, but I shop anglophone essentially electronically, and have for years. I don't think they're much fun either: they just feed the vanity of competition, popularity, etc. I'm all for reviews. Mini-reviews are good too. Qualitative lists, which discuss the books. And even?"my favorite books"-type lists. But not "best of"'s... But heck, that's just me. If you think it's fun, go for it! Amicalement, Alex ? www.alexdickow.net/blog/ les mots! ah quel d?sert ? la fin merveilleux. -- Henri Droguet ________________________________ From: Chris Lott To: NewPoetry List Sent: Sun, December 12, 2010 6:11:26 AM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Is American Poetry at a Dead End? I think it depends on the spirit in which such lists are intended. I love to hear people's "top X" of 2010 lists-- it's a valuable pointer to things that might be worth reading, hearing, or seeing.? As long as they don't think they are making a list for the ages, why take all the fun out of it? c On Sat, Dec 11, 2010 at 2:14 PM, Alexander Dickow wrote: > Hear, hear. People are in a big rush these days to talk about "best of > 2010s" and the like; I think it's just a plain load of hooey. > Amicalement, > Alex > > www.alexdickow.net/blog/ > > les mots! ah quel d?sert ? la fin > merveilleux. -- Henri Droguet > > ________________________________ > From: Bob Grumman > To: NewPoetry List > Sent: Sun, December 12, 2010 12:07:17 AM > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Is American Poetry at a Dead End? > > On 12/11/2010 4:06 PM, Anny Ballardini wrote: > > Prominent poets speak out by Anis Shivanic >http://www.huffingtonpost.com/anis-shivani/american-poetry-dead-end_b_794033.html >l > > Nothing there that I haven't read twenty times or more.? Very little that > made me think any of the "prominent poets" or host of comment-makers has > much of an idea of contemporary poetry outside Wilshberia, or even there. > But my main conclusion from reading the material at the site is that the > question asked is stupid.? It's like asking what the best collections of > poetry of a year just ended (or ending) are.? No one can know about all the > collections published in the latest year much less have had sufficient time > properly to evaluate those few they are aware of.? The question that should > have been asked is whether or not poetry was dead at the end of 1990. > > --Bob > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sun Dec 12 06:45:32 2010 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Sun, 12 Dec 2010 06:45:32 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Is American Poetry at a Dead End? In-Reply-To: References: <4D040425.7010206@nut-n-but.net><824435.90800.qm@web355 01.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4D04B5DC.2090303@nut-n-but.net> On 12/12/2010 12:11 AM, Chris Lott wrote: > I think it depends on the spirit in which such lists are intended. I > love to hear people's "top X" of 2010 lists-- it's a valuable pointer > to things that might be worth reading, hearing, or seeing. As long as > they don't think they are making a list for the ages, why take all the > fun out of it? > > c Because it's no fun for poets getting no support of any kind except pats on the back from other marginal poets to read such lists. And, of course, because none of them mention any books by poets not already boosted all over the place, or no more worth reading than any book randomly encounter without the guidance of such lists by the kind of poet whose book would get on such a list. What would be a hundred times more helpful would be a competent critique of a book by a poet never critiqued in any BigCirc publication, whether the poet lived in Wilshberia or somewhere else. You notice these lists never give more than a blurb as to why any of the selected books is on the list. I would agree that a list by somebody one knows (as a writer) of collections he likes and nothing more might be useful, if you like, or hate, his kind of books, but why annoy people by arrogantly describing the books on the list as the best of some year? All that does is get people like me making posts like this one. --Bob From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sun Dec 12 06:49:28 2010 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Sun, 12 Dec 2010 06:49:28 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Is American Poetry at a Dead End? In-Reply-To: <348343.56252.qm@web35508.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <4D040425.7010206@nut-n-but.net><824435.90800.qm@web355 01.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <348343.56252.qm@web35508.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4D04B6C8.8060801@nut-n-but.net> On 12/12/2010 3:51 AM, Alexander Dickow wrote: > I'm not convinced, Chris. "Best of" lists almost never tell us > anything about the criteria of selection; if I'm looking for new good > stuff to read, I take my cues from reviews or poems in journals I > like, not best of lists. As someone pointed out, these lists have no > redundancy: on the outside, they are arbitrary picks (minus the usual > hideous lack of women writers, etc.). If I had an All-po bookstore > nearby to browse at, such lists might orient me to certain titles, but > I shop anglophone essentially electronically, and have for years. I > don't think they're much fun either: they just feed the vanity of > competition, popularity, etc. > I'm all for reviews. Mini-reviews are good too. Qualitative lists, > which discuss the books. And even "my favorite books"-type lists. But > not "best of"'s... > But heck, that's just me. If you think it's fun, go for it! > Amicalement, > Alex > www.alexdickow.net/blog/ I see you anticipated the post I just wrote, Alex. I agree with most of what you said. On the other hand, I think I'd enjoy a list of the worst books of 2010. I'd still want some intelligent comments as to why each book was on the list. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Sun Dec 12 07:37:36 2010 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sun, 12 Dec 2010 13:37:36 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Is American Poetry at a Dead End? In-Reply-To: <4D04B6C8.8060801@nut-n-but.net> References: <4D040425.7010206@nut-n-but.net> <348343.56252.qm@web35508.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <4D04B6C8.8060801@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: It seems to me that Rebecca Seiferle say just about what you are saying Bob here: It may be that some poets have arrived at a dead-end; for one way to be successful as a poet in American culture has been to carve out a niche, a particular 'voice' or style that is recognizable as a brand name, and to cultivate that niche for decades. There are perhaps styles of poetry that are at a dead-end; I went to a MFA graduate school where Allen Grossman arrived as visiting faculty and announced during his lecture that the work he'd read from the program was "written as if Modernism hadn't happened." There is always a kind of "new" poetry that seems to create a sort of anonymous voice, as if the poems written by its various practitioners could be read as if written by all, a kind of pastiche of vernacular and high diction and appropriation. But that has always been the case; there have always been styles and practitioners who have reached dead-ends, and sometimes the dead-ends are only obstacles through which something breaks through. Whitman for instance was a hack journalist before whatever happened to him happened and the doors flung open. What worries me the most about the present moment in poetry is the degree to which it's been taken over by the business of being a poet and subverted by the corrupt language of our culture. The attitudes and jargon of our consumer culture are perfidious, and poetry is not unaffected; hence, the cultivation of a "voice" as if it were a brand name, the isolation of the poetry-ego viewing others' experiences as material for one's sincere posturing, the round of networking and readings and mutual publications not unlike any social network with business connections. Poetry when it lives takes language back to its roots, makes us consider the oppression that is often embedded in the etymology of the word and its practice upon the tongue; often exacting and difficult, poetry requires an encounter which puts the poet's intention and ego and persona as much at risk as anything else. and I also think she very much earned the little success she has had. Before criticizing blindly on everything and everybody, why don't ... am I preaching? Sorry. Sunday's effect! On Sun, Dec 12, 2010 at 12:49 PM, Bob Grumman wrote: > On 12/12/2010 3:51 AM, Alexander Dickow wrote: > > I'm not convinced, Chris. "Best of" lists almost never tell us anything > about the criteria of selection; if I'm looking for new good stuff to read, > I take my cues from reviews or poems in journals I like, not best of lists. > As someone pointed out, these lists have no redundancy: on the outside, they > are arbitrary picks (minus the usual hideous lack of women writers, etc.). > If I had an All-po bookstore nearby to browse at, such lists might orient me > to certain titles, but I shop anglophone essentially electronically, and > have for years. I don't think they're much fun either: they just feed the > vanity of competition, popularity, etc. > I'm all for reviews. Mini-reviews are good too. Qualitative lists, which > discuss the books. And even "my favorite books"-type lists. But not "best > of"'s... > But heck, that's just me. If you think it's fun, go for it! > Amicalement, > Alex > > www.alexdickow.net/blog/ > > I see you anticipated the post I just wrote, Alex. I agree with most of > what you said. On the other hand, I think I'd enjoy a list of the worst > books of 2010. I'd still want some intelligent comments as to why each book > was on the list. > > --Bob > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sun Dec 12 08:13:44 2010 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Sun, 12 Dec 2010 08:13:44 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Is American Poetry at a Dead End? In-Reply-To: References: <4D040425.7010206@nut-n-but.net><348343.56252.qm@web35508.mail.mud.yahoo.com><4D04B6C8.8060801@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <4D04CA88.8060901@nut-n-but.net> On 12/12/2010 7:37 AM, Anny Ballardini wrote: > It seems to me that Rebecca Seiferle said just about what you are > saying Bob here: > > It may be that some poets have arrived at a dead-end; for one way to > be successful as a poet in American culture has been to carve out a > niche, a particular 'voice' or style that is recognizable as a brand > name, and to cultivate that niche for decades. There are perhaps > styles of poetry that are at a dead-end; I went to a MFA graduate > school where Allen Grossman arrived as visiting faculty and announced > during his lecture that the work he'd read from the program was > "written as if Modernism hadn't happened." There is always a kind of > "new" poetry that seems to create a sort of anonymous voice, as if the > poems written by its various practitioners could be read as if written > by all, a kind of pastiche of vernacular and high diction and > appropriation. But that has always been the case; there have always > been styles and practitioners who have reached dead-ends, and > sometimes the dead-ends are only obstacles through which something > breaks through. Whitman for instance was a hack journalist before > whatever happened to him happened and the doors flung open. > > What worries me the most about the present moment in poetry is the > degree to which it's been taken over by the business of being a poet > and subverted by the corrupt language of our culture. The attitudes > and jargon of our consumer culture are perfidious, and poetry is not > unaffected; hence, the cultivation of a "voice" as if it were a brand > name, the isolation of the poetry-ego viewing others' experiences as > material for one's sincere posturing, the round of networking and > readings and mutual publications not unlike any social network with > business connections. Poetry when it lives takes language back to its > roots, makes us consider the oppression that is often embedded in the > etymology of the word and its practice upon the tongue; often exacting > and difficult, poetry requires an encounter which puts the poet's > intention and ego and persona as much at risk as anything else. > > > and I also think she very much earned the little success she has had. > Before criticizing blindly on everything and everybody, why don't ... > am I preaching? Sorry. Sunday's effect! > Sorry, Anny, but she seems to me to have said standard things that I've heard dozens of times (and said dozens of times, myself). She also said a lot less than I said. But I did not make a blanket statement--I said something like "few" were not at fault, not all were. I don't know your friend's poetry but wish her well--even though I'm pretty sure her composition room is in Wilshberia. --Bob From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Sun Dec 12 08:30:39 2010 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sun, 12 Dec 2010 14:30:39 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Randy Pausch Message-ID: I just watched this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ji5_MqicxSo it is extremely moving. -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd at ripon.edu Sun Dec 12 10:18:10 2010 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Sun, 12 Dec 2010 09:18:10 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Is American Poetry at a Dead End? In-Reply-To: <6815C2AC-2D8C-48B7-9D68-86B4BF311683@ripon.edu> References: <4D040425.7010206@nut-n-but.net> <824435.90800.qm@web35501.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <6815C2AC-2D8C-48B7-9D68-86B4BF311683@ripon.edu> Message-ID: <8554C891-B69F-45A5-9493-514A818E688F@ripon.edu> Prominent poets speak out by Anis Shivani http://www.huffingtonpost.com/anis-shivani/american-poetry-dead-end_b_794033.html Now I've read through the article. It's a lot better than I anticipated it would be. My fear was that it would be mostly a rehash of hand-wringing platitudes about the parlous state of contemporary verse, with the obligatory swipes at the academy. And there is some of that present from the various commentators. But there is also a healthy range of views, including some vigorous disagreement. That seems about right, in capturing something essential about the current state of poetry in the U.S. I was heartened to see a number of poets quite sensibly questioning the premises behind the questions they were asked, for another thing, and replying in a more interesting vein than they were prompted to. Several made a point that I would have: that "modernism" is hardly monolithic, and contains all sorts of variety, just as the current scene does. And several poets made a point of trying to put the inane questions in a richer historical context. One thing that drives me up the wall in a lot of similar debates is the lack of historical grounding that you often see--I am thinking of various godawful panels at AWP & elsewhere in which younger poets don't seem very aware of any poetry before about 1960. If one's idea of The Tradition begins with Allen Ginsberg and Anne Sexton, well, discussion seems rather delimited. One of my favorite voices was Wayne Miller. Let me end by quoting him at some length. Plenty to ponder & argue with here, I think; but in any case he's attempting to look at matters holistically and historically, and not just complaining about "the MFA" or whatever was in the latest issue of Supercool Review. He's also aware that there are many flavors in the current stew as well as many continuities with earlier debates. ____________________ At any point in poetic history, one finds hand-wringing about the state of the art. These days, Tony Hoagland is concerned by the "skittery poem of our moment," Ron Silliman complains about the pervasiveness of the "School of Quietude," Franz Wright worries about the chatty sociability--the lack of focused quietness--found in the "MFA generations," Dorothea Lasky is bothered by too many poets writing "projects," John Barr complains about the lack of safari-going among today's poets, Ange Mlinko decries the legacy of Lowell's "tyranny of psychological verismo," Michael Theune frets that "middle-ground poets" don't have clear evaluative criteria, Anis Shivani worries about the "mechanical" nature of our poetry, and numerous poets have asserted in response to Ashbery that "the emperor has no clothes." I say "these days" because we could also be in some other historical moment when, say, William Carlos Williams is complaining about T. S. Eliot's "conforming to the excellencies of classroom English," or M. L. Rosenthal is bothered by the "shameful" nature of Confessional poetry, or France is scandalized by Baudelaire's "incomprehensible" and "putrid" work, or Ezra Pound is attacking the influence of Walt Whitman, whose Leaves of Grass "is impossible to read [. . .] without swearing at the author almost continuously," or the Acmeist poets are decrying the lack of craft in the work of the Russian Symbolists, or Dunstan Thompson is complaining of "the smugness, the sterility, the death-in-life which disgrace the literary journals of America" in that poetic nadir of 1940--the same year Auden published Another Time, E. E. Cummings published 50 Poems, Kenneth Fearing published his Collected Poems, and Kenneth Rexroth and Robert Hayden made their literary debuts. The legacy of Modernism is alive and well--though, frankly, it's so broad as to be pretty much unbetrayable. After all, the Language poets and Philip Levine both envision their work as building on William Carlos Williams. Robert Bly thought "Deep Image" poetry was a return to true Imagism, yet Ron Silliman lumps Bly and James Wright with many of the "academic" and Confessional poets Bly excoriated in The Fifties. All poetry lives somewhere on a spectrum between Classicism and Romanticism. If high Modernists such as Eliot, Pound, and Moore tilt toward the Classical side, and the Confessional and Beat poets inhabit the Romantic, then we've more or less marked the boundaries of the Modernist legacy. But that gives us quite an aesthetic and intellectual range to play around in. --Wayne Miller _______________ ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.me.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From almaginnes at aol.com Sun Dec 12 10:23:52 2010 From: almaginnes at aol.com (almaginnes at aol.com) Date: Sun, 12 Dec 2010 10:23:52 -0500 (EST) Subject: [New-Poetry] Is American Poetry at a Dead End? In-Reply-To: <8554C891-B69F-45A5-9493-514A818E688F@ripon.edu> References: <4D040425.7010206@nut-n-but.net><824435.90800.qm@web35501.mail.mud.yahoo.com><6815C2AC-2D8C-48B7-9D68-86B4BF311683@ripon.edu> <8554C891-B69F-45A5-9493-514A818E688F@ripon.edu> Message-ID: <8CD6827B777449C-D0C-96577@Webmail-d108.sysops.aol.com> Well, I have to agree with John Barr that our poetry would be better if more American poets went on safaris. Maybe the Poetry Foundation could do something about that. -----Original Message----- From: David Graham To: NewPoetry List Sent: Sun, Dec 12, 2010 10:18 am Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Is American Poetry at a Dead End? Prominent poets speak out by Anis Shivani http://www.huffingtonpost.com/anis-shivani/american-poetry-dead-end_b_794033.html Now I've read through the article. It's a lot better than I anticipated it would be. My fear was that it would be mostly a rehash of hand-wringing platitudes about the parlous state of contemporary verse, with the obligatory swipes at the academy. And there is some of that present from the various commentators. But there is also a healthy range of views, including some vigorous disagreement. That seems about right, in capturing something essential about the current state of poetry in the U.S. I was heartened to see a number of poets quite sensibly questioning the premises behind the questions they were asked, for another thing, and replying in a more interesting vein than they were prompted to. Several made a point that I would have: that "modernism" is hardly monolithic, and contains all sorts of variety, just as the current scene does. And several poets made a point of trying to put the inane questions in a richer historical context. One thing that drives me up the wall in a lot of similar debates is the lack of historical grounding that you often see--I am thinking of various godawful panels at AWP & elsewhere in which younger poets don't seem very aware of any poetry before about 1960. If one's idea of The Tradition begins with Allen Ginsberg and Anne Sexton, well, discussion seems rather delimited. One of my favorite voices was Wayne Miller. Let me end by quoting him at some length. Plenty to ponder & argue with here, I think; but in any case he's attempting to look at matters holistically and historically, and not just complaining about "the MFA" or whatever was in the latest issue of Supercool Review. He's also aware that there are many flavors in the current stew as well as many continuities with earlier debates. ____________________ At any point in poetic history, one findshand-wringing about the state of the art. These days, Tony Hoagland isconcerned by the "skittery poem of our moment," Ron Sillimancomplains about the pervasiveness of the "School of Quietude," FranzWright worries about the chatty sociability--the lack of focusedquietness--found in the "MFA generations," Dorothea Lasky is botheredby too many poets writing "projects," John Barr complains about thelack of safari-going among today's poets, Ange Mlinko decries the legacy ofLowell's "tyranny of psychological verismo," Michael Theune fretsthat "middle-ground poets" don't have clear evaluative criteria, AnisShivani worries about the "mechanical" nature of our poetry, andnumerous poets have asserted in response to Ashbery that "the emperor hasno clothes." I say "these days" because wecould also be in some other historical moment when, say, William Carlos Williamsis complaining about T. S. Eliot's "conforming to the excellencies ofclassroom English," or M. L. Rosenthal is bothered by the"shameful" nature of Confessional poetry, or France is scandalized byBaudelaire's "incomprehensible" and "putrid" work, or EzraPound is attacking the influence of WaltWhitman, whose Leaves of Grass "is impossible to read [. . .] withoutswearing at the author almost continuously," or the Acmeist poets aredecrying the lack of craft in the work of the Russian Symbolists, or DunstanThompson is complaining of "the smugness, the sterility, the death-in-lifewhich disgrace the literary journals of America" in that poetic nadir of1940--the same year Auden publishedAnother Time, E. E. Cummingspublished 50 Poems, Kenneth Fearingpublished his Collected Poems, and Kenneth Rexroth and Robert Hayden madetheir literary debuts. The legacy of Modernism is alive andwell--though, frankly, it's so broad as to be pretty much unbetrayable. Afterall, the Language poets and PhilipLevine both envision their work as building on William Carlos Williams. RobertBly thought "Deep Image" poetry was a return to true Imagism, yet RonSilliman lumps Bly and James Wright with many of the "academic" andConfessional poets Bly excoriated inThe Fifties. All poetry lives somewhere on a spectrumbetween Classicism and Romanticism. If high Modernists such as Eliot, Pound,and Moore tilt toward the Classical side, and the Confessional and Beat poetsinhabit the Romantic, then we've more or less marked the boundaries of theModernist legacy. But that gives us quite an aesthetic and intellectual rangeto play around in. --Wayne Miller _______________ ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.me.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From junction at earthlink.net Sun Dec 12 10:37:37 2010 From: junction at earthlink.net (Mark Weiss) Date: Sun, 12 Dec 2010 10:37:37 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Is American Poetry at a Dead End? In-Reply-To: <8CD6827B777449C-D0C-96577@Webmail-d108.sysops.aol.com> References: <4D040425.7010206@nut-n-but.net> <824435.90800.qm@web35501.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <6815C2AC-2D8C-48B7-9D68-86B4BF311683@ripon.edu> <8554C891-B69F-45A5-9493-514A818E688F@ripon.edu> <8CD6827B777449C-D0C-96577@Webmail-d108.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: Or if more got eaten by lions. Hint: It's cheaper to go to the zoo. At 10:23 AM 12/12/2010, you wrote: >Well, I have to agree with John Barr that our >poetry would be better if more American poets >went on safaris. Maybe the Poetry Foundation could do something about that. > > > > > > >-----Original Message----- >From: David Graham >To: NewPoetry List >Sent: Sun, Dec 12, 2010 10:18 am >Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Is American Poetry at a Dead End? > >Prominent poets speak out by Anis Shivani >http://www.huffingtonpost.com/anis-shivani/american-poetry-dead-end_b_794033.html > > >Now I've read through the article. It's a lot >better than I anticipated it would be. My fear >was that it would be mostly a rehash of >hand-wringing platitudes about the parlous state >of contemporary verse, with the obligatory >swipes at the academy. And there is some of >that present from the various commentators. But >there is also a healthy range of views, >including some vigorous disagreement. That >seems about right, in capturing something >essential about the current state of poetry in the U.S. > >I was heartened to see a number of poets quite >sensibly questioning the premises behind the >questions they were asked, for another thing, >and replying in a more interesting vein than >they were prompted to. Several made a point >that I would have: that "modernism" is hardly >monolithic, and contains all sorts of variety, >just as the current scene does. > >And several poets made a point of trying to put >the inane questions in a richer historical >context. One thing that drives me up the wall >in a lot of similar debates is the lack of >historical grounding that you often see--I am >thinking of various godawful panels at AWP & >elsewhere in which younger poets don't seem very >aware of any poetry before about 1960. If one's >idea of The Tradition begins with Allen Ginsberg >and Anne Sexton, well, discussion seems rather delimited. > >One of my favorite voices was Wayne Miller. Let >me end by quoting him at some length. Plenty to >ponder & argue with here, I think; but in any >case he's attempting to look at matters >holistically and historically, and not just >complaining about "the MFA" or whatever was in >the latest issue of Supercool Review. He's also >aware that there are many flavors in the current >stew as well as many continuities with earlier debates. > >____________________ >At any point in poetic history, one finds >hand-wringing about the state of the art. These >days, Tony Hoagland is concerned by the >"skittery poem of our moment," Ron Silliman >complains about the pervasiveness of the "School >of Quietude," Franz Wright worries about the >chatty sociability--the lack of focused >quietness--found in the "MFA generations," >Dorothea Lasky is bothered by too many poets >writing "projects," John Barr complains about >the lack of safari-going among today's poets, >Ange Mlinko decries the legacy of Lowell's >"tyranny of psychological verismo," Michael >Theune frets that "middle-ground poets" don't >have clear evaluative criteria, Anis Shivani >worries about the "mechanical" nature of our >poetry, and numerous poets have asserted in >response to Ashbery that "the emperor has no clothes." > >I say "these days" because we could also be in >some other historical moment when, say, William >Carlos Williams is complaining about T. S. >Eliot's "conforming to the excellencies of >classroom English," or M. L. Rosenthal is >bothered by the "shameful" nature of >Confessional poetry, or France is scandalized by >Baudelaire's "incomprehensible" and "putrid" >work, or Ezra Pound is attacking the influence >of Walt Whitman, whose Leaves of Grass "is >impossible to read [. . .] without swearing at >the author almost continuously," or the Acmeist >poets are decrying the lack of craft in the work >of the Russian Symbolists, or Dunstan Thompson >is complaining of "the smugness, the sterility, >the death-in-life which disgrace the literary >journals of America" in that poetic nadir of >1940--the same year Auden published Another >Time, E. E. Cummings published 50 Poems, Kenneth >Fearing published his Collected Poems, and >Kenneth Rexroth and Robert Hayden made their literary debuts. > >The legacy of Modernism is alive and >well--though, frankly, it's so broad as to be >pretty much unbetrayable. After all, the >Language poets and Philip Levine both envision >their work as building on William Carlos >Williams. Robert Bly thought "Deep Image" poetry >was a return to true Imagism, yet Ron Silliman >lumps Bly and James Wright with many of the >"academic" and Confessional poets Bly excoriated in The Fifties. > >All poetry lives somewhere on a spectrum between >Classicism and Romanticism. If high Modernists >such as Eliot, Pound, and Moore tilt toward the >Classical side, and the Confessional and Beat >poets inhabit the Romantic, then we've more or >less marked the boundaries of the Modernist >legacy. But that gives us quite an aesthetic and >intellectual range to play around in. >--Wayne Miller >_______________ > > > >======================================== >David Graham >grahamd at ripon.edu > >Home Page: >http://web.me.com/drjazz > >Poetry Library: >http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html >========================================== > > > > >_______________________________________________ > > >New-Poetry mailing list > > >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > > >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry New from Chax Press: Mark Weiss, As Landscape. $16. Order from http://www.chax.org/poets/weiss.htm "What a beautiful set of circumstances! What a lovely concatenation of particulars. Here is the poet alive in every sense of the word, and through every one of his senses. Instead of missing a beat or a part, Weiss? fragments are like Chekhov?s short stories?the more that gets left out, the more they seem to contain One can hear echoes from all the various ancestors...[but] the voice, at its center, its core, is pure Mark Weiss. His use of the fragment is both elegant and bafflingly clear, a pure musical threnody [it] opens a window, not only into a mind, but a person, a personality, this human figure at the emotional center of the poem." M.G. Stephens, in Jacket. http://jacketmagazine.com/40/r-weiss-rb-stephens.shtml -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sun Dec 12 10:50:34 2010 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Sun, 12 Dec 2010 10:50:34 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Is American Poetry at a Dead End? In-Reply-To: <8554C891-B69F-45A5-9493-514A818E688F@ripon.edu> References: <4D040425.7010206@nut-n-but.net><824435.90800.qm@web355 01.mail.mud.yahoo.com><6815C2AC-2D8C-48B7-9D68-86B4BF311683@ripon.edu> <8554C891-B69F-45A5-9493-514A818E688F@ripon.edu> Message-ID: <4D04EF4A.2080902@nut-n-but.net> I think an important question in this area is: What indicates that any art is dead? It certainly has little to do with the continuum from classicism to romanticism, nor would it if those two terms weren't near worthless for intelligent discussion. Another question intrigues me: what would a graph of the value of anglophonic poetry over the years look like? Would it show periods when poetry was close to dead? How about a similar graph for other arts? I'm afraid my graph would depend mostly on how many poets at a given time were composing poetry significantly different from that composed by preceding generations--which would make the period between Wordsworth and Pound/Eliot quite a bit less alive than the two periods it was between. --Bob From chris at chrislott.org Sun Dec 12 11:10:21 2010 From: chris at chrislott.org (Chris Lott) Date: Sun, 12 Dec 2010 07:10:21 -0900 Subject: [New-Poetry] Is American Poetry at a Dead End? In-Reply-To: <348343.56252.qm@web35508.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <4D040425.7010206@nut-n-but.net> <824435.90800.qm@web35501.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <348343.56252.qm@web35508.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Criteria? Really? Who needs it? I love to know what someone else was excited by. Why does there need to be criteria? The whole "best of" vs "my favorite" is ridiculous unless-- as I already pointed out TWICE-- the person is staking a claim beyond the personal. In my experience, very few people or publications make this claim, including some of the anthologies that are poked at most. It's the personal that I'm interested in. I'm surprised any reader isn't. c On Sat, Dec 11, 2010 at 11:51 PM, Alexander Dickow wrote: > I'm not convinced, Chris. "Best of" lists?almost never tell us anything > about the criteria of selection; if I'm looking for new good stuff to read, > I take my cues from reviews or poems in journals I like, not best of lists. > As someone pointed out, these lists have no redundancy: on the outside, they > are arbitrary picks (minus the usual hideous lack of women writers, etc.). > If I had an?All-po bookstore nearby to browse?at,?such lists might orient me > to certain titles, but I shop anglophone essentially electronically, and > have for years. I don't think they're much fun either: they just feed the > vanity of competition, popularity, etc. > I'm all for reviews. Mini-reviews are good too. Qualitative lists, which > discuss the books. And even?"my favorite books"-type lists. But not "best > of"'s... > But heck, that's just me. If you think it's fun, go for it! > Amicalement, > Alex > > www.alexdickow.net/blog/ > > les mots! ah quel d?sert ? la fin > merveilleux. -- Henri Droguet > > ________________________________ > From: Chris Lott > To: NewPoetry List > Sent: Sun, December 12, 2010 6:11:26 AM > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Is American Poetry at a Dead End? > > I think it depends on the spirit in which such lists are intended. I > love to hear people's "top X" of 2010 lists-- it's a valuable pointer > to things that might be worth reading, hearing, or seeing.? As long as > they don't think they are making a list for the ages, why take all the > fun out of it? > > c > > On Sat, Dec 11, 2010 at 2:14 PM, Alexander Dickow > wrote: >> Hear, hear. People are in a big rush these days to talk about "best of >> 2010s" and the like; I think it's just a plain load of hooey. >> Amicalement, >> Alex >> >> www.alexdickow.net/blog/ >> >> les mots! ah quel d?sert ? la fin >> merveilleux. -- Henri Droguet >> >> ________________________________ >> From: Bob Grumman >> To: NewPoetry List >> Sent: Sun, December 12, 2010 12:07:17 AM >> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Is American Poetry at a Dead End? >> >> On 12/11/2010 4:06 PM, Anny Ballardini wrote: >> >> Prominent poets speak out by Anis Shivanic >> >> http://www.huffingtonpost.com/anis-shivani/american-poetry-dead-end_b_794033.html >> >> Nothing there that I haven't read twenty times or more.? Very little that >> made me think any of the "prominent poets" or host of comment-makers has >> much of an idea of contemporary poetry outside Wilshberia, or even there. >> But my main conclusion from reading the material at the site is that the >> question asked is stupid.? It's like asking what the best collections of >> poetry of a year just ended (or ending) are.? No one can know about all >> the >> collections published in the latest year much less have had sufficient >> time >> properly to evaluate those few they are aware of.? The question that >> should >> have been asked is whether or not poetry was dead at the end of 1990. >> >> --Bob >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > From chris at chrislott.org Sun Dec 12 11:07:47 2010 From: chris at chrislott.org (Chris Lott) Date: Sun, 12 Dec 2010 07:07:47 -0900 Subject: [New-Poetry] Is American Poetry at a Dead End? In-Reply-To: <4D04B5DC.2090303@nut-n-but.net> References: <4D040425.7010206@nut-n-but.net> <4D04B5DC.2090303@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: So, Bob and Alexander, as readers we aren't allowed to have opinions? You don't have in your mind a selection of what you read this year that you think is better than the rest? I still don't see the problem. If you shared the list of books or poems you read this year that were better-- for you-- than the rest, that would be valuable for me to discover new work. Same with every other list. As I said, if the person making the list isn't staking some claim for best for everyone-- but saying "here's what was best for me"-- I not only am not seeing the harm, but I think it's a good thing. I also fail to see the meaningful distinction between me posting "The Best 10 books I read this year" and posting "My favorite 10 books of the year." I don't want redundancy and authority when someone shares a list of what has inspired or moved or excited them-- I want their personal take. That's the whole point. I think you are both looking through the wrong end of the telescope here. c On Sun, Dec 12, 2010 at 2:45 AM, Bob Grumman wrote: > On 12/12/2010 12:11 AM, Chris Lott wrote: >> >> I think it depends on the spirit in which such lists are intended. I >> love to hear people's "top X" of 2010 lists-- it's a valuable pointer >> to things that might be worth reading, hearing, or seeing. ?As long as >> they don't think they are making a list for the ages, why take all the >> fun out of it? >> >> c > > Because it's no fun for poets getting no support of any kind except pats on > the back from other marginal poets to read such lists. ?And, of course, > because none of them mention any books by poets not already boosted all over > the place, or no more worth reading than any book randomly encounter without > the guidance of such lists by the kind of poet whose book would get on such > a list. > > What would be a hundred times more helpful would be a competent critique of > a book by a poet never critiqued in any BigCirc publication, whether the > poet lived in Wilshberia or somewhere else. ?You notice these lists never > give more than a blurb as to why any of the selected books is on the list. > > I would agree that a list by somebody one knows (as a writer) of collections > he likes and nothing more might be useful, if you like, or hate, his kind of > books, but why annoy people by arrogantly describing the books on the list > as the best of some year? ?All that does is get people like me making posts > like this one. > > --Bob > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > From chris at chrislott.org Sun Dec 12 13:29:05 2010 From: chris at chrislott.org (Chris Lott) Date: Sun, 12 Dec 2010 09:29:05 -0900 Subject: [New-Poetry] "Best 2010" Case in Point Message-ID: Just came across Paige Taggart's selection of the "Best Poetry Books of 2010" - http://notellpoetry.blogspot.com/2010/12/best-poetry-books-of-2010-paige-taggart.html -- I don't know some of the books, but I know some of Taggart's work and I'll check out a couple of the titles for just that reason. No criteria, personal, I didn't pay attention to the male/female ratio, I understand that the "Best of 2010" is a shorthand for "The books I read this year that moved and/or intrigued and/or excited me more than the others, thus comprising a personal list that I hope provides a pointer to something you might have missed." I'd much rather have these thousands of flowers blooming than anyone trying to write an authoritative list since no one can possibly be exposed to more than a tiny fraction of the poetry being published in any given year. So, a negative or useless activity? Not by any means. As valuable as a thorough critical examination or review? Probably not. c From halvard at gmail.com Sun Dec 12 13:35:06 2010 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Sun, 12 Dec 2010 12:35:06 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] "Best 2010" Case in Point In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: "Be exposed to . . . " Is that some sort of euphemism? Hal "A sudden silence in the middle of a conversation suddenly brings us back to essentials: it reveals how dearly we must pay for the invention of speech." --E. M. Cioran Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home *Mainly Black , **Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ;* *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; * ***Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; * ***G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; * *Transparencies & Projections * On Sun, Dec 12, 2010 at 12:29 PM, Chris Lott wrote: > Just came across Paige Taggart's selection of the "Best Poetry Books > of 2010" - > http://notellpoetry.blogspot.com/2010/12/best-poetry-books-of-2010-paige-taggart.html > -- I don't know some of the books, but I know some of Taggart's work > and I'll check out a couple of the titles for just that reason. > > No criteria, personal, I didn't pay attention to the male/female > ratio, I understand that the "Best of 2010" is a shorthand for "The > books I read this year that moved and/or intrigued and/or excited me > more than the others, thus comprising a personal list that I hope > provides a pointer to something you might have missed." > > I'd much rather have these thousands of flowers blooming than anyone > trying to write an authoritative list since no one can possibly be > exposed to more than a tiny fraction of the poetry being published in > any given year. > > So, a negative or useless activity? Not by any means. As valuable as a > thorough critical examination or review? Probably not. > > c > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chris at chrislott.org Sun Dec 12 14:07:54 2010 From: chris at chrislott.org (Chris Lott) Date: Sun, 12 Dec 2010 10:07:54 -0900 Subject: [New-Poetry] "Best 2010" Case in Point In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Of course. c On Sun, Dec 12, 2010 at 9:35 AM, Halvard Johnson wrote: > "Be exposed to . . . " Is that some sort of euphemism? > Hal From amyhappens at yahoo.com Sun Dec 12 17:52:31 2010 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king) Date: Sun, 12 Dec 2010 14:52:31 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] Is American Poetry at a Dead End? In-Reply-To: References: <4D040425.7010206@nut-n-but.net> <4D04B5DC.2090303@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <138048.51991.qm@web83302.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Chris, Surely you see "the harm" when one of the most-widely read publications on reviews -- suggestive of having read it all, all year long -- puts forth a "Best of" list that purports to declare the best books to read of the year, sans criteria for selection? Um, you know, this endeavor isn't as 'innocent' (i.e. without influence and reach) as me or you posting on our blog our faves of the year without examining how we arrived at our faves. The "Best of" by Publishers' Weekly == sales, visibility = jobs, accolades, awards, etc. So when that group pretends to just be picking their faves, without questioning how they arrived at those faves, others listen and buy, share with classes, etc. This unexamined bit that you don't feel any need to address is large in some respects and has a trickle down effect. It's why the biggest moneyed awards still go to men. But you, neither you nor Paige, who is a friend, needs to wonder why you read what you read. Unless you start working for the industry in an official way. As a teacher, I most certainly question my reading practices because I bring those books and stories and poems into the classroom and curry readers for those writers. I recognize my own part in the "unexamined" reading habits and choose to examine. You're right: you needn't; no one's forcing you. But you declare a "Best of," people can call you on it and ask you how you arrived there. http://amyking.wordpress.com/2009/11/04/why-weren?t-any-women-invited-to-publishers-weekly?s-weenie-roast/ http://wearechampion.blogspot.com/2010/08/amy-king.html http://vidaweb.org/what-we-talk-about-when-were-talking-about-the-count Cheers, Amy ********* VIDA: Women in Literary Arts + Interviews Amy's Alias + http://amyking.org/ ******** ________________________________ From: Chris Lott I still don't see the problem. If you shared the list of books or poems you read this year that were better-- for you-- than the rest, that would be valuable for me to discover new work. Same with every other list. As I said, if the person making the list isn't staking some claim for best for everyone-- but saying "here's what was best for me"-- I not only am not seeing the harm, but I think it's a good thing. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From alexdickow9 at yahoo.com Sun Dec 12 17:55:47 2010 From: alexdickow9 at yahoo.com (Alexander Dickow) Date: Sun, 12 Dec 2010 14:55:47 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] Is American Poetry at a Dead End? In-Reply-To: <138048.51991.qm@web83302.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: <4D040425.7010206@nut-n-but.net> <4D04B5DC.2090303@nut-n-but.net> <138048.51991.qm@web83302.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <721133.79429.qm@web35504.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Yeah! what Amy?said. Amicalement, Alex ? www.alexdickow.net/blog/ les mots! ah quel d?sert ? la fin merveilleux. -- Henri Droguet ________________________________ From: amy king To: NewPoetry List Sent: Sun, December 12, 2010 11:52:31 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Is American Poetry at a Dead End? Chris, Surely you see "the harm" when one of the most-widely read publications on reviews -- suggestive of having read it all, all year long -- puts forth a "Best of" list that purports to declare the best books to read of the year, sans criteria for selection? ?Um, you know, this endeavor isn't as 'innocent' (i.e. without influence and reach) as me or you posting on our blog our faves of the year without examining how we arrived at our faves. ? The "Best of" by Publishers' Weekly == sales, visibility = jobs, accolades, awards, etc. ?So when that group pretends to just be picking their faves, without questioning how they arrived at those faves, others listen and buy, share with classes, etc. ?This unexamined bit that you don't feel any need to address is large in some respects and has a trickle down effect. ?It's why the biggest moneyed awards still go to men. ? ? But you, neither you nor Paige, who is a friend, needs to wonder why you read what you read. ?Unless you start working for the industry in an official way. ?As a teacher, I most certainly question my reading practices because I bring those books and stories and poems into the classroom and curry readers for those writers. ?I recognize my own part in the "unexamined" reading habits and choose to examine. ?You're right: ?you needn't; no one's forcing you. But you declare a "Best of," people can call you on it and ask you how you arrived there. http://amyking.wordpress.com/2009/11/04/why-weren?t-any-women-invited-to-publishers-weekly?s-weenie-roast/ http://wearechampion.blogspot.com/2010/08/amy-king.html http://vidaweb.org/what-we-talk-about-when-were-talking-about-the-count Cheers, Amy ********* VIDA: ?Women in Literary Arts +?Interviews Amy's Alias +?http://amyking.org/? ******** ________________________________ From: Chris Lott? I still don't see the problem. If you shared the list of books or poems you read this year that were better-- for you-- than the rest, that would be valuable for me to discover new work. Same with every other list. As I said, if the person making the list isn't staking some claim for best for everyone-- but saying "here's what was best for me"-- I not only am not seeing the harm, but I think it's a good thing. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Sigauke at crc.losrios.edu Sun Dec 12 18:06:53 2010 From: Sigauke at crc.losrios.edu (Sigauke, Emmanuel) Date: Sun, 12 Dec 2010 15:06:53 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poets Reading: Abigail George (South Africa) Message-ID: <430E71B1EF479E419F77C6B0E605BBA15AF21E92C5@lrccd-exch08.LRCCD.ad.losrios.edu> http://vasigauke.blogspot.com/2010/12/reading-2010-abigail-george-south.html ________________________________ From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu [new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Alexander Dickow [alexdickow9 at yahoo.com] Sent: Sunday, December 12, 2010 2:55 PM To: NewPoetry List Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Is American Poetry at a Dead End? Yeah! what Amy said. Amicalement, Alex www.alexdickow.net/blog/ les mots! ah quel d?sert ? la fin merveilleux. -- Henri Droguet ________________________________ From: amy king To: NewPoetry List Sent: Sun, December 12, 2010 11:52:31 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Is American Poetry at a Dead End? Chris, Surely you see "the harm" when one of the most-widely read publications on reviews -- suggestive of having read it all, all year long -- puts forth a "Best of" list that purports to declare the best books to read of the year, sans criteria for selection? Um, you know, this endeavor isn't as 'innocent' (i.e. without influence and reach) as me or you posting on our blog our faves of the year without examining how we arrived at our faves. The "Best of" by Publishers' Weekly == sales, visibility = jobs, accolades, awards, etc. So when that group pretends to just be picking their faves, without questioning how they arrived at those faves, others listen and buy, share with classes, etc. This unexamined bit that you don't feel any need to address is large in some respects and has a trickle down effect. It's why the biggest moneyed awards still go to men. But you, neither you nor Paige, who is a friend, needs to wonder why you read what you read. Unless you start working for the industry in an official way. As a teacher, I most certainly question my reading practices because I bring those books and stories and poems into the classroom and curry readers for those writers. I recognize my own part in the "unexamined" reading habits and choose to examine. You're right: you needn't; no one's forcing you. But you declare a "Best of," people can call you on it and ask you how you arrived there. http://amyking.wordpress.com/2009/11/04/why-weren?t-any-women-invited-to-publishers-weekly?s-weenie-roast/ http://wearechampion.blogspot.com/2010/08/amy-king.html http://vidaweb.org/what-we-talk-about-when-were-talking-about-the-count Cheers, Amy ********* VIDA: Women in Literary Arts + Interviews Amy's Alias + http://amyking.org/ ******** ________________________________ From: Chris Lott I still don't see the problem. If you shared the list of books or poems you read this year that were better-- for you-- than the rest, that would be valuable for me to discover new work. Same with every other list. As I said, if the person making the list isn't staking some claim for best for everyone-- but saying "here's what was best for me"-- I not only am not seeing the harm, but I think it's a good thing. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From atelierjewelweed at gmail.com Sun Dec 12 18:58:02 2010 From: atelierjewelweed at gmail.com (Suzanne Burns) Date: Sun, 12 Dec 2010 18:58:02 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Is American Poetry at a Dead End? In-Reply-To: <721133.79429.qm@web35504.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <4D040425.7010206@nut-n-but.net> <4D04B5DC.2090303@nut-n-but.net> <138048.51991.qm@web83302.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <721133.79429.qm@web35504.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Amy, You are just made of awesome. :-) Suzanne On Sun, Dec 12, 2010 at 5:55 PM, Alexander Dickow wrote: > Yeah! what Amy?said. > Amicalement, > Alex > > www.alexdickow.net/blog/ > > les mots! ah quel d?sert ? la fin > merveilleux. -- Henri Droguet > > ________________________________ > From: amy king > To: NewPoetry List > Sent: Sun, December 12, 2010 11:52:31 PM > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Is American Poetry at a Dead End? > > Chris, > Surely you see "the harm" when one of the most-widely read publications on > reviews -- suggestive of having read it all, all year long -- puts forth a > "Best of" list that purports to declare the best books to read of the year, > sans criteria for selection? ?Um, you know, this endeavor isn't as > 'innocent' (i.e. without influence and reach) as me or you posting on our > blog our faves of the year without examining how we arrived at our faves. > The "Best of" by Publishers' Weekly == sales, visibility = jobs, accolades, > awards, etc. ?So when that group pretends to just be picking their faves, > without questioning how they arrived at those faves, others listen and buy, > share with classes, etc. ?This unexamined bit that you don't feel any need > to address is large in some respects and has a trickle down effect. ?It's > why the biggest moneyed awards still go to men. > > But you, neither you nor Paige, who is a friend, needs to wonder why you > read what you read. ?Unless you start working for the industry in an > official way. ?As a teacher, I most certainly question my reading practices > because I bring those books and stories and poems into the classroom and > curry readers for those writers. ?I recognize my own part in the > "unexamined" reading habits and choose to examine. ?You're right: ?you > needn't; no one's forcing you. But you declare a "Best of," people can call > you on it and ask you how you arrived there. > http://amyking.wordpress.com/2009/11/04/why-weren?t-any-women-invited-to-publishers-weekly?s-weenie-roast/ > http://wearechampion.blogspot.com/2010/08/amy-king.html > > http://vidaweb.org/what-we-talk-about-when-were-talking-about-the-count > > Cheers, > Amy > > ********* > VIDA: ?Women in Literary Arts > +?Interviews > Amy's Alias > +?http://amyking.org/ > ******** > > ________________________________ > From: Chris Lott > > I still don't see the problem. If you shared the list of books or > poems you read this year that were better-- for you-- than the rest, > that would be valuable for me to discover new work. Same with every > other list. As I said, if the person making the list isn't staking > some claim for best for everyone-- but saying "here's what was best > for me"-- I not only am not seeing the harm, but I think it's a good > thing. > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sun Dec 12 20:18:29 2010 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Sun, 12 Dec 2010 20:18:29 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Lists of Best Collections of a Year In-Reply-To: References: <4D040425.7010206@nut-n-but.net><4D04B5DC.2090303@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <4D057465.8050905@nut-n-but.net> For me, "best" does not mean "favorite," Chris. I wouldn't outlaw them nor outlaw People magazine. To each his own. Which list would you prefer: X's 10 favorite collections of 2010, excluding those published in December or X's list of favorite collections published in 2000? That was my main point a few weeks ago. This time around I was primarily discussing the Is Poetry Dead discussion, my claim being that no one can know enough about the current state of poetry to say anything very intelligent about it, or list the ten best collections of 2010, except for those published in December. --Bob From jjeffreymail at yahoo.com Sun Dec 12 22:54:04 2010 From: jjeffreymail at yahoo.com (John Jeffrey) Date: Sun, 12 Dec 2010 19:54:04 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] Is American Poetry at a Dead End? In-Reply-To: <138048.51991.qm@web83302.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: <4D040425.7010206@nut-n-but.net> <4D04B5DC.2090303@nut-n-but.net> <138048.51991.qm@web83302.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <593909.1492.qm@web120517.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> This line made me laugh: The "Best of" by Publishers' Weekly == sales, visibility = jobs, accolades, awards, etc. We're talking about poetry book sales and poetry book and poet visibility and jobs, right? How does it work? After the big Publishers Weekly "Best of" accolade, do the poetry books just start flying off the shelf? Does the publisher scramble to print another run of, say, 500 books? Can the author barely appear in public for the screaming fans? Who knew that a top ten list could do such a thing? Thanks for the chuckle. John J ________________________________ From: amy king To: NewPoetry List Sent: Sun, December 12, 2010 5:52:31 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Is American Poetry at a Dead End? Chris, Surely you see "the harm" when one of the most-widely read publications on reviews -- suggestive of having read it all, all year long -- puts forth a "Best of" list that purports to declare the best books to read of the year, sans criteria for selection? Um, you know, this endeavor isn't as 'innocent' (i.e. without influence and reach) as me or you posting on our blog our faves of the year without examining how we arrived at our faves. The "Best of" by Publishers' Weekly == sales, visibility = jobs, accolades, awards, etc. So when that group pretends to just be picking their faves, without questioning how they arrived at those faves, others listen and buy, share with classes, etc. This unexamined bit that you don't feel any need to address is large in some respects and has a trickle down effect. It's why the biggest moneyed awards still go to men. But you, neither you nor Paige, who is a friend, needs to wonder why you read what you read. Unless you start working for the industry in an official way. As a teacher, I most certainly question my reading practices because I bring those books and stories and poems into the classroom and curry readers for those writers. I recognize my own part in the "unexamined" reading habits and choose to examine. You're right: you needn't; no one's forcing you. But you declare a "Best of," people can call you on it and ask you how you arrived there. http://amyking.wordpress.com/2009/11/04/why-weren?t-any-women-invited-to-publishers-weekly?s-weenie-roast/ http://wearechampion.blogspot.com/2010/08/amy-king.html http://vidaweb.org/what-we-talk-about-when-were-talking-about-the-count Cheers, Amy ********* VIDA: Women in Literary Arts + Interviews Amy's Alias + http://amyking.org/ ******** ________________________________ From: Chris Lott I still don't see the problem. If you shared the list of books or poems you read this year that were better-- for you-- than the rest, that would be valuable for me to discover new work. Same with every other list. As I said, if the person making the list isn't staking some claim for best for everyone-- but saying "here's what was best for me"-- I not only am not seeing the harm, but I think it's a good thing. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From amyhappens at yahoo.com Sun Dec 12 23:40:43 2010 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king) Date: Sun, 12 Dec 2010 20:40:43 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] Is American Poetry at a Dead End? In-Reply-To: <593909.1492.qm@web120517.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <4D040425.7010206@nut-n-but.net> <4D04B5DC.2090303@nut-n-but.net> <138048.51991.qm@web83302.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <593909.1492.qm@web120517.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <802197.53423.qm@web83304.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Suzanne and Alex - thanks much! John J -- Sure, if you want to be reductive, then yes, fashion your hyperbole for a "chuckle". But if you think such industry lists and reviews have nothing to do with poets getting teaching gigs & libraries purchasing books, then your reductions are indeed the blinders you want. Cheers, Amy ********* VIDA: Women in Literary Arts + Interviews Amy's Alias + http://amyking.org/ ******** ________________________________ From: John Jeffrey To: NewPoetry List Sent: Sun, December 12, 2010 10:54:04 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Is American Poetry at a Dead End? This line made me laugh: The "Best of" by Publishers' Weekly = sales, visibility = jobs, accolades, awards, etc. We're talking about poetry book sales and poetry book and poet visibility and jobs, right? How does it work? After the big Publishers Weekly "Best of" accolade, do the poetry books just start flying off the shelf? Does the publisher scramble to print another run of, say, 500 books? Can the author barely appear in public for the screaming fans? Who knew that a top ten list could do such a thing? Thanks for the chuckle. John J ________________________________ From: amy king To: NewPoetry List Sent: Sun, December 12, 2010 5:52:31 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Is American Poetry at a Dead End? Chris, Surely you see "the harm" when one of the most-widely read publications on reviews -- suggestive of having read it all, all year long -- puts forth a "Best of" list that purports to declare the best books to read of the year, sans criteria for selection? Um, you know, this endeavor isn't as 'innocent' (i.e. without influence and reach) as me or you posting on our blog our faves of the year without examining how we arrived at our faves. The "Best of" by Publishers' Weekly == sales, visibility = jobs, accolades, awards, etc. So when that group pretends to just be picking their faves, without questioning how they arrived at those faves, others listen and buy, share with classes, etc. This unexamined bit that you don't feel any need to address is large in some respects and has a trickle down effect. It's why the biggest moneyed awards still go to men. But you, neither you nor Paige, who is a friend, needs to wonder why you read what you read. Unless you start working for the industry in an official way. As a teacher, I most certainly question my reading practices because I bring those books and stories and poems into the classroom and curry readers for those writers. I recognize my own part in the "unexamined" reading habits and choose to examine. You're right: you needn't; no one's forcing you. But you declare a "Best of," people can call you on it and ask you how you arrived there. http://amyking.wordpress.com/2009/11/04/why-weren%E2%80%99t-any-women-invited-to-publishers-weekly%E2%80%99s-weenie-roast/ http://wearechampion.blogspot.com/2010/08/amy-king.html http://vidaweb.org/what-we-talk-about-when-were-talking-about-the-count Cheers, Amy ********* VIDA: Women in Literary Arts + Interviews Amy's Alias + http://amyking.org/ ******** ________________________________ From: Chris Lott I still don't see the problem. If you shared the list of books or poems you read this year that were better-- for you-- than the rest, that would be valuable for me to discover new work. Same with every other list. As I said, if the person making the list isn't staking some claim for best for everyone-- but saying "here's what was best for me"-- I not only am not seeing the harm, but I think it's a good thing. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Mon Dec 13 06:59:54 2010 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2010 06:59:54 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Is American Poetry at a Dead End? In-Reply-To: <802197.53423.qm@web83304.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: <4D040425.7010206@nut-n-but.net><4D04B5DC.2090303@nut-n-but.net><138048.51991.qm@web83302.mail.sp1.yahoo.com><593909.1492.qm@web120517.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <802197.53423.qm@web83304.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4D060ABA.7020409@nut-n-but.net> On 12/12/2010 11:40 PM, amy king wrote: > Suzanne and Alex - thanks much! > > John J -- Sure, if you want to be reductive, then yes, fashion your > hyperbole for a "chuckle". But if you think such industry lists and > reviews have nothing to do with poets getting teaching gigs & > libraries purchasing books, then your reductions are indeed the > blinders you want. > > Cheers, > > Amy Right. To state the obvious, the awards-granting portion of the Establishment consists of gate-keepers like the NEA. Where do they go to choose recipients of their grants? Certainly not to the poets themselves and their work. Why would they? They know next to nothing about poets and poetry. What they do is consult their border guards, publishers, universities and critics like Publishers' Weekly, Harvard and Helen Vendler--all of whom mainly consult each other but take the never-adventurous selections of their leaders, like Vendler, as a guide. And, as James keeps annoyingly reminding us, many poets yearly get monetary prizes any one of which would take care of my needs for the rest of my life. Almost all of these are either long-established poets or younger clones of them. Then they accuse critics of their practice like me of sour grapes--instead of defending it, or getting their border guards to defend it. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jjeffreymail at yahoo.com Mon Dec 13 07:11:57 2010 From: jjeffreymail at yahoo.com (John Jeffrey) Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2010 04:11:57 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] Is American Poetry at a Dead End? In-Reply-To: <802197.53423.qm@web83304.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: <4D040425.7010206@nut-n-but.net> <4D04B5DC.2090303@nut-n-but.net> <138048.51991.qm@web83302.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <593909.1492.qm@web120517.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <802197.53423.qm@web83304.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <425688.62222.qm@web120513.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> You can call it reductive, that's fine. (Hmmm. Is calling it reductive also a reductive argument?) But I just think this is just way too much hand-wringing over someone's top ten list, since that's where this started. John J ________________________________ From: amy king To: NewPoetry List Sent: Sun, December 12, 2010 11:40:43 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Is American Poetry at a Dead End? Suzanne and Alex - thanks much! John J -- Sure, if you want to be reductive, then yes, fashion your hyperbole for a "chuckle". But if you think such industry lists and reviews have nothing to do with poets getting teaching gigs & libraries purchasing books, then your reductions are indeed the blinders you want. Cheers, Amy ********* VIDA: Women in Literary Arts + Interviews Amy's Alias + http://amyking.org/ ******** ________________________________ From: John Jeffrey To: NewPoetry List Sent: Sun, December 12, 2010 10:54:04 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Is American Poetry at a Dead End? This line made me laugh: The "Best of" by Publishers' Weekly = sales, visibility = jobs, accolades, awards, etc. We're talking about poetry book sales and poetry book and poet visibility and jobs, right? How does it work? After the big Publishers Weekly "Best of" accolade, do the poetry books just start flying off the shelf? Does the publisher scramble to print another run of, say, 500 books? Can the author barely appear in public for the screaming fans? Who knew that a top ten list could do such a thing? Thanks for the chuckle. John J ________________________________ From: amy king To: NewPoetry List Sent: Sun, December 12, 2010 5:52:31 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Is American Poetry at a Dead End? Chris, Surely you see "the harm" when one of the most-widely read publications on reviews -- suggestive of having read it all, all year long -- puts forth a "Best of" list that purports to declare the best books to read of the year, sans criteria for selection? Um, you know, this endeavor isn't as 'innocent' (i.e. without influence and reach) as me or you posting on our blog our faves of the year without examining how we arrived at our faves. The "Best of" by Publishers' Weekly == sales, visibility = jobs, accolades, awards, etc. So when that group pretends to just be picking their faves, without questioning how they arrived at those faves, others listen and buy, share with classes, etc. This unexamined bit that you don't feel any need to address is large in some respects and has a trickle down effect. It's why the biggest moneyed awards still go to men. But you, neither you nor Paige, who is a friend, needs to wonder why you read what you read. Unless you start working for the industry in an official way. As a teacher, I most certainly question my reading practices because I bring those books and stories and poems into the classroom and curry readers for those writers. I recognize my own part in the "unexamined" reading habits and choose to examine. You're right: you needn't; no one's forcing you. But you declare a "Best of," people can call you on it and ask you how you arrived there. http://amyking.wordpress.com/2009/11/04/why-weren%E2%80%99t-any-women-invited-to-publishers-weekly%E2%80%99s-weenie-roast/ http://wearechampion.blogspot.com/2010/08/amy-king.html http://vidaweb.org/what-we-talk-about-when-were-talking-about-the-count Cheers, Amy ********* VIDA: Women in Literary Arts + Interviews Amy's Alias + http://amyking.org/ ******** ________________________________ From: Chris Lott I still don't see the problem. If you shared the list of books or poems you read this year that were better-- for you-- than the rest, that would be valuable for me to discover new work. Same with every other list. As I said, if the person making the list isn't staking some claim for best for everyone-- but saying "here's what was best for me"-- I not only am not seeing the harm, but I think it's a good thing. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at gmail.com Mon Dec 13 11:53:32 2010 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2010 10:53:32 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Industrial Spinach Message-ID: *Industrial Spinach* Leafiness is next to godliness, my father used to say, wiping pesticide and nitrate residues from his lip. Deltamethrine was added to our diet in his never- ending attempt to keep us under control. During washing and blanching new dry stuff continually being added. Wet and then soap. Rinse and then dry. Repeat. Hal "A sudden silence in the middle of a conversation suddenly brings us back to essentials: it reveals how dearly we must pay for the invention of speech." --E. M. Cioran Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home *Mainly Black , **Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ;* *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; * ***Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; * ***G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; * *Transparencies & Projections * -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nic_sebastian at hotmail.com Mon Dec 13 12:34:57 2010 From: nic_sebastian at hotmail.com (Nic Sebastian) Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2010 12:34:57 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] audio chapbooks from Whale Sound In-Reply-To: References: , <4D040425.7010206@nut-n-but.net>, <824435.90800.qm@web35501.mail.mud.yahoo.com>, , <348343.56252.qm@web35508.mail.mud.yahoo.com>, Message-ID: Studies in Monogamy by Nicelle Davis - http://bit.ly/eaxV0pHandmade Boats by H.K. Hummel - http://bit.ly/9YfuEH Best wishes, Nic Nic Sebastian http://whalesound.wordpress.com http://verylikeawhale.wordpress.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From amyhappens at yahoo.com Mon Dec 13 12:49:12 2010 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king) Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2010 09:49:12 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] audio chapbooks from Whale Sound In-Reply-To: References: , <4D040425.7010206@nut-n-but.net>, <824435.90800.qm@web35501.mail.mud.yahoo.com>, , <348343.56252.qm@web35508.mail.mud.yahoo.com>, Message-ID: <312752.40433.qm@web83303.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Wow! You're really running with this, Nic! Good for you -- talk about giving back to the community. Will post to my Facebook wall. Sick of people bitching about it but doing nothing about it, nothing to change it. Thanks for these! Cheers, Amy ********* VIDA: Women in Literary Arts + Interviews Amy's Alias + http://amyking.org/ ******** ________________________________ From: Nic Sebastian To: New Poetry Sent: Mon, December 13, 2010 12:34:57 PM Subject: [New-Poetry] audio chapbooks from Whale Sound Studies in Monogamy by Nicelle Davis - http://bit.ly/eaxV0p Handmade Boats by H.K. Hummel - http://bit.ly/9YfuEH Best wishes, Nic Nic Sebastian http://whalesound.wordpress.com http://verylikeawhale.wordpress.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nic_sebastian at hotmail.com Mon Dec 13 12:54:54 2010 From: nic_sebastian at hotmail.com (Nic Sebastian) Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2010 12:54:54 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] audio chapbooks from Whale Sound In-Reply-To: <312752.40433.qm@web83303.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: , , <4D040425.7010206@nut-n-but.net>, , <824435.90800.qm@web35501.mail.mud.yahoo.com>, , , , <348343.56252.qm@web35508.mail.mud.yahoo.com>, , , , <312752.40433.qm@web83303.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Thanks, Amy. As you know, it was your idea in the first place -- having so much fun with it - thanks! Nic Sebastian http://whalesound.wordpress.com http://verylikeawhale.wordpress.com Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2010 09:49:12 -0800 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] audio chapbooks from Whale Sound Wow! You're really running with this, Nic! Good for you -- talk about giving back to the community. Will post to my Facebook wall. Sick of people bitching about it but doing nothing about it, nothing to change it. Thanks for these! Cheers, Amy *********VIDA: Women in Literary Arts+ Interviews Amy's Alias+ http://amyking.org/ ******** From: Nic Sebastian To: New Poetry Sent: Mon, December 13, 2010 12:34:57 PM Subject: [New-Poetry] audio chapbooks from Whale Sound Studies in Monogamy by Nicelle Davis - http://bit.ly/eaxV0pHandmade Boats by H.K. Hummel - http://bit.ly/9YfuEH Best wishes, Nic Nic Sebastian http://whalesound.wordpress.com http://verylikeawhale.wordpress.com _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chris at chrislott.org Mon Dec 13 15:47:25 2010 From: chris at chrislott.org (Chris Lott) Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2010 11:47:25 -0900 Subject: [New-Poetry] Lists of Best Collections of a Year In-Reply-To: <4D057465.8050905@nut-n-but.net> References: <4D040425.7010206@nut-n-but.net> <4D04B5DC.2090303@nut-n-but.net> <4D057465.8050905@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: Either list would be useful. The point is that everyone has a different understanding of the elephant that is poetry. Rather than wanting everyone to shut up, I'd prefer that everyone shared. I don't see the harm in it. Honestly, though, I'd like to see where a list of your 10 favorites over whatever period you choose differed from your list of 10 best over that same period. I'm not getting the distinction. For me, at least, there would be no difference between those two lists. c On Sun, Dec 12, 2010 at 4:18 PM, Bob Grumman wrote: > For me, "best" does not mean "favorite," Chris. ?I wouldn't outlaw them nor > outlaw People magazine. ?To each his own. > > Which list would you prefer: X's 10 favorite collections of 2010, excluding > those published in December or X's list of favorite collections published in > 2000? ?That was my main point a few weeks ago. ?This time around I was > primarily discussing the Is Poetry Dead discussion, my claim being that no > one can know enough about the current state of poetry to say anything very > intelligent about it, or list the ten best collections of 2010, except for > those published in December. > > --Bob > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > From grahamd at ripon.edu Mon Dec 13 16:40:57 2010 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2010 15:40:57 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Best poetry books of 2010 Message-ID: The staff at the Poetry Foundation has produced a list of their (personal) best books of poetry for the year 2010, with brief blurbs: http://www.poetryfoundation.org/harriet/2010/12/staff-picks-best-of-2010/ What's notable to me about this particular list is that I haven't read a single book on it, though I read a great deal of poetry this year as always, including quite a few published this year. 11 books on their list, and 4 of them by poets I don't believe I've ever read. The others I've heard of, but have not read the new books--or, in some cases, any entire books by these folks. Without entering the debate about the uses and abuses of such lists or the term "best," I will say that something pretty significant about the state of contemporary poetry is indicated by the fact that there can easily be no overlap between my own "best" list and one from such a mainstream committee as the Poetry Foundation folks. For what it's worth, the 2010 books that caught my attention most were these: 1. Jim Harrison, In Search of Small Gods 2. Seamus Heaney, Human Chain 3. Nick Lantz, We Don't Know We Don't Know; and The Lightning That Strikes the Neighbors' House (amazingly, he debuted with two separate collections in 2010) 4. Erika Meitner, Ideal Cities 5. John Murillo, Up Jump the Boogie 6. Barbara Ras, The Last Skin 7. Charles Simic, Master of Disguises 8. A.E. Stringer, Human Costume So here's a research question for you all. Of my list above, how many books have YOU read? And another: How many poets on that list have you heard of? Coda: if we go back to books published in 2009 that I just caught up with in 2010, I would add the following: 1. Adrian Blevins, Live from the Homesick Restaurant 2. Amy Gerstler, Dearest Creature 3. Mark Kraushaar, Falling Brick Kills Local Man 4. Everette Maddox, I Hope It's Not Over, and Good-Bye 5. Angela Sorby, Bird Skin Coat All the above comes from just lookng at my "active" poetry shelf. I am no doubt forgetting a dozen or more books that I can't see from my desk at the moment. ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.me.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From almaginnes at aol.com Mon Dec 13 16:48:01 2010 From: almaginnes at aol.com (almaginnes at aol.com) Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2010 16:48:01 -0500 (EST) Subject: [New-Poetry] Best poetry books of 2010 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8CD6926870AFCD1-EBC-106F@webmail-m063.sysops.aol.com> OK, David, of your list (both years) I've heard of all the poets. I've read Nick Lantz's books and Heaney's and Meitner's are on my list (probably going to wait for the paperbacks; Heaney stopped being a poet I felt compelled to buy in hardcover a book or two ago). Harrison's poems I've always been a little iffy on although I have liked some a great deal and I love his collection Letters to Yesenin. From 2009 I've read Mark Krashuar's book and I was entirely unaware there was something else out there by Everette Maddox. So thanks. I will cast about and see what my best of list for 2010 looks like. Al -----Original Message----- From: David Graham To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu & Views Sent: Mon, Dec 13, 2010 4:41 pm Subject: [New-Poetry] Best poetry books of 2010 The staff at the Poetry Foundation has produced a list of their (personal) best books of poetry for the year 2010, with brief blurbs: http://www.poetryfoundation.org/harriet/2010/12/staff-picks-best-of-2010/ What's notable to me about this particular list is that I haven't read a single book on it, though I read a great deal of poetry this year as always, including quite a few published this year. 11 books on their list, and 4 of them by poets I don't believe I've ever read. The others I've heard of, but have not read the new books--or, in some cases, any entire books by these folks. Without entering the debate about the uses and abuses of such lists or the term "best," I will say that something pretty significant about the state of contemporary poetry is indicated by the fact that there can easily be no overlap between my own "best" list and one from such a mainstream committee as the Poetry Foundation folks. For what it's worth, the 2010 books that caught my attention most were these: 1. Jim Harrison, In Search of Small Gods 2. Seamus Heaney, Human Chain 3. Nick Lantz, We Don't Know We Don't Know; and The Lightning That Strikes the Neighbors' House (amazingly, he debuted with two separate collections in 2010) 4. Erika Meitner, Ideal Cities 5. John Murillo, Up Jump the Boogie 6. Barbara Ras, The Last Skin 7. Charles Simic, Master of Disguises 8. A.E. Stringer, Human Costume So here's a research question for you all. Of my list above, how many books have YOU read? And another: How many poets on that list have you heard of? Coda: if we go back to books published in 2009 that I just caught up with in 2010, I would add the following: 1. Adrian Blevins, Live from the Homesick Restaurant 2. Amy Gerstler, Dearest Creature 3. Mark Kraushaar, Falling Brick Kills Local Man 4. Everette Maddox, I Hope It's Not Over, and Good-Bye 5. Angela Sorby, Bird Skin Coat All the above comes from just lookng at my "active" poetry shelf. I am no doubt forgetting a dozen or more books that I can't see from my desk at the moment. ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.me.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From almaginnes at aol.com Mon Dec 13 17:02:20 2010 From: almaginnes at aol.com (almaginnes at aol.com) Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2010 17:02:20 -0500 (EST) Subject: [New-Poetry] Best poetry books of 2010 In-Reply-To: <8CD6926870AFCD1-EBC-106F@webmail-m063.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CD6926870AFCD1-EBC-106F@webmail-m063.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <8CD69288BD75427-EBC-14F7@webmail-m063.sysops.aol.com> This is by no means a complete or exhaustive list but of books published in 2010, here are some I spent a lot of time with: Rolling the Bones Christopher Buckley Requiem for the Orchard Oliver de la Paz The Circus Poems Alex Grant The Manageable Cold Timothy McBride Movers and Shakers Joel B. Peckham (a chapbook) Paper Anniversary Bobby C. Rogers The Kilim Dreaming Robert Hill Long Within the Shadow of a Man Dennis Sampson Self Portrait With Expletives Kevin Clark Vivisect Lisa Lewis Beautiful Country Robert Wrigley Outtakes Charles Wright Sestets Charles Wright As I said this is not a complete list and I'm as likely to spend time with a book published twenty years ago as one that came out last week. Two of my happiest discoveries this year were finding used copies of Richard Hugo's White Center and What Thou Lovest Well Remains American in a used book store. -----Original Message----- From: almaginnes To: new-poetry Sent: Mon, Dec 13, 2010 4:48 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Best poetry books of 2010 OK, David, of your list (both years) I've heard of all the poets. I've read Nick Lantz's books and Heaney's and Meitner's are on my list (probably going to wait for the paperbacks; Heaney stopped being a poet I felt compelled to buy in hardcover a book or two ago). Harrison's poems I've always been a little iffy on although I have liked some a great deal and I love his collection Letters to Yesenin. From 2009 I've read Mark Krashuar's book and I was entirely unaware there was something else out there by Everette Maddox. So thanks. I will cast about and see what my best of list for 2010 looks like. Al -----Original Message----- From: David Graham To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu & Views Sent: Mon, Dec 13, 2010 4:41 pm Subject: [New-Poetry] Best poetry books of 2010 The staff at the Poetry Foundation has produced a list of their (personal) best books of poetry for the year 2010, with brief blurbs: http://www.poetryfoundation.org/harriet/2010/12/staff-picks-best-of-2010/ What's notable to me about this particular list is that I haven't read a single book on it, though I read a great deal of poetry this year as always, including quite a few published this year. 11 books on their list, and 4 of them by poets I don't believe I've ever read. The others I've heard of, but have not read the new books--or, in some cases, any entire books by these folks. Without entering the debate about the uses and abuses of such lists or the term "best," I will say that something pretty significant about the state of contemporary poetry is indicated by the fact that there can easily be no overlap between my own "best" list and one from such a mainstream committee as the Poetry Foundation folks. For what it's worth, the 2010 books that caught my attention most were these: 1. Jim Harrison, In Search of Small Gods 2. Seamus Heaney, Human Chain 3. Nick Lantz, We Don't Know We Don't Know; and The Lightning That Strikes the Neighbors' House (amazingly, he debuted with two separate collections in 2010) 4. Erika Meitner, Ideal Cities 5. John Murillo, Up Jump the Boogie 6. Barbara Ras, The Last Skin 7. Charles Simic, Master of Disguises 8. A.E. Stringer, Human Costume So here's a research question for you all. Of my list above, how many books have YOU read? And another: How many poets on that list have you heard of? Coda: if we go back to books published in 2009 that I just caught up with in 2010, I would add the following: 1. Adrian Blevins, Live from the Homesick Restaurant 2. Amy Gerstler, Dearest Creature 3. Mark Kraushaar, Falling Brick Kills Local Man 4. Everette Maddox, I Hope It's Not Over, and Good-Bye 5. Angela Sorby, Bird Skin Coat All the above comes from just lookng at my "active" poetry shelf. I am no doubt forgetting a dozen or more books that I can't see from my desk at the moment. ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.me.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Mon Dec 13 17:16:30 2010 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2010 17:16:30 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Lists of Best Collections of a Year In-Reply-To: References: <4D040425.7010206@nut-n-but.net> <4D04B5DC.2090303@nut-n-but.net><4D057465.8050905@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <4D069B3E.5040206@nut-n-but.net> On 12/13/2010 3:47 PM, Chris Lott wrote: > Either list would be useful. The point is that everyone has a > different understanding of the elephant that is poetry. Rather than > wanting everyone to shut up, I'd prefer that everyone shared. I don't > see the harm in it. Some lists are influential. Also, I know you don't believe this, but just as shelves in bookstores only have so much room so that if the storekeeper has books by mediocrities, it means he has less space for books by better poets, the Internet and printed media only have so much space for poetry and writings about poetry, so trivial lists will leave no room for much better writing. I wonder why you need lists, anyway. Why not get a copy of poetry books in print every year and read every book listed? > Honestly, though, I'd like to see where a list of your 10 favorites > over whatever period you choose differed from your list of 10 best > over that same period. I'm not getting the distinction. For me, at > least, there would be no difference between those two lists. > I wouldn't make a list of ten best collections for any period. I believe that such a list could be made because I'm an elitist who believes some books are better than others, and a few much better than any others. But I'm not omniscient so would overlook books that should be on the list, especially those published in my lifetime. If I made a list of favorites that would be published in some magazine like Publishers' Weekly, I would provide reasons for my choices, and a caveat about my probably being only ten times more familiar with the continuum of contemporary poetry in English than William Logan. --Bob From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Mon Dec 13 17:22:13 2010 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2010 17:22:13 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Best poetry books of 2010 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4D069C95.2060606@nut-n-but.net> > For what it's worth, the 2010 books that caught my attention most were > these: > > 1. Jim Harrison, In Search of Small Gods > 2. Seamus Heaney, Human Chain > 3. Nick Lantz, We Don't Know We Don't Know; and The Lightning That > Strikes the Neighbors' House (amazingly, he debuted with two separate > collections in 2010) > 4. Erika Meitner, Ideal Cities > 5. John Murillo, Up Jump the Boogie > 6. Barbara Ras, The Last Skin > 7. Charles Simic, Master of Disguises > 8. A.E. Stringer, Human Costume I have only heard of and read the two Eminences. From junction at earthlink.net Mon Dec 13 17:18:39 2010 From: junction at earthlink.net (Mark Weiss) Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2010 17:18:39 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Best poetry books of 2010 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: In 2009 they also included my anthology The Whole Island: Six Decades of Cuban Poetry (UC Press). You can see me read and talk about it at http://media.sas.upenn.edu/watch/102088 or listen to it as an mp3 at http://media.sas.upenn.edu/pennsound/authors/Weiss/KWH_09-30-2010/Weiss-Mark_The-Whole-Island-reading_Writers-Without-Borders_KWH-Upenn_09-30-10.mp3. Best, Mark At 04:40 PM 12/13/2010, you wrote: >The staff at the Poetry Foundation has produced >a list of their (personal) best books of poetry >for the year 2010, with brief blurbs: > >http://www.poetryfoundation.org/harriet/2010/12/staff-picks-best-of-2010/ > >What's notable to me about this particular list >is that I haven't read a single book on it, >though I read a great deal of poetry this year >as always, including quite a few published this >year. 11 books on their list, and 4 of them by >poets I don't believe I've ever read. The >others I've heard of, but have not read the new >books--or, in some cases, any entire books by these folks. > >Without entering the debate about the uses and >abuses of such lists or the term "best," I will >say that something pretty significant about the >state of contemporary poetry is indicated by the >fact that there can easily be no overlap between >my own "best" list and one from such a >mainstream committee as the Poetry Foundation folks. > >For what it's worth, the 2010 books that caught my attention most were these: > >1. Jim Harrison, In Search of Small Gods >2. Seamus Heaney, Human Chain >3. Nick Lantz, We Don't Know We Don't Know; and >The Lightning That Strikes the Neighbors' House >(amazingly, he debuted with two separate collections in 2010) >4. Erika Meitner, Ideal Cities >5. John Murillo, Up Jump the Boogie >6. Barbara Ras, The Last Skin >7. Charles Simic, Master of Disguises >8. A.E. Stringer, Human Costume > >So here's a research question for you all. Of >my list above, how many books have YOU >read? And another: How many poets on that list have you heard of? > >Coda: if we go back to books published in 2009 >that I just caught up with in 2010, I would add the following: > >1. Adrian Blevins, Live from the Homesick Restaurant >2. Amy Gerstler, Dearest Creature >3. Mark Kraushaar, Falling Brick Kills Local Man >4. Everette Maddox, I Hope It's Not Over, and Good-Bye >5. Angela Sorby, Bird Skin Coat > >All the above comes from just lookng at my >"active" poetry shelf. I am no doubt forgetting >a dozen or more books that I can't see from my desk at the moment. >======================================== >David Graham >grahamd at ripon.edu > >Home Page: >http://web.me.com/drjazz > >Poetry Library: >http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html >========================================== > > > > >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry New from Chax Press: Mark Weiss, As Landscape. $16. Order from http://www.chax.org/poets/weiss.htm "What a beautiful set of circumstances! What a lovely concatenation of particulars. Here is the poet alive in every sense of the word, and through every one of his senses. Instead of missing a beat or a part, Weiss? fragments are like Chekhov?s short stories?the more that gets left out, the more they seem to contain One can hear echoes from all the various ancestors...[but] the voice, at its center, its core, is pure Mark Weiss. His use of the fragment is both elegant and bafflingly clear, a pure musical threnody [it] opens a window, not only into a mind, but a person, a personality, this human figure at the emotional center of the poem." M.G. Stephens, in Jacket. http://jacketmagazine.com/40/r-weiss-rb-stephens.shtml -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Mon Dec 13 17:31:01 2010 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2010 17:31:01 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Best poetry books of 2010 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4D069EA5.9060901@nut-n-but.net> I was a little surprised that a collection by Larry Eigner was one of the Poetry Foundation editors' favorites. His poetry isn't Wilshberian. But I guess that's okay to these people if you're dead. --Bob From almaginnes at aol.com Mon Dec 13 17:27:03 2010 From: almaginnes at aol.com (almaginnes at aol.com) Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2010 17:27:03 -0500 (EST) Subject: [New-Poetry] Best poetry books of 2010 In-Reply-To: <4D069EA5.9060901@nut-n-but.net> References: <4D069EA5.9060901@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <8CD692C00055669-EBC-1AE1@webmail-m063.sysops.aol.com> Some fairly odd choices on that list. And I have not read one of them though I have read a few poems by some. -----Original Message----- From: Bob Grumman To: NewPoetry List Sent: Mon, Dec 13, 2010 5:25 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Best poetry books of 2010 I was a little surprised that a collection by Larry Eigner was one of the Poetry Foundation editors' favorites. His poetry isn't Wilshberian. But I guess that's okay to these people if you're dead. --Bob _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Mon Dec 13 17:35:09 2010 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2010 17:35:09 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Best poetry books of 2010 In-Reply-To: <4D069C95.2060606@nut-n-but.net> References: <4D069C95.2060606@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <4D069F9D.1080307@nut-n-but.net> Murillo and Harrison, too, and probably have read poems by some of the others but not remembered their names. --Bob From grahamd at ripon.edu Mon Dec 13 17:31:06 2010 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2010 16:31:06 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Best poetry books of 2010 In-Reply-To: <4D069EA5.9060901@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: Just curious, and I know I will regret asking, but: is there anyone else on this list, I'm wondering, who finds the term and concept "Wilshberian" useful and meaningful? For me it's about as useful as a scheme dividing all music into (a)Tuvan throat singing and (b) everything else. On 12/13/10 4:31 PM, "Bob Grumman" wrote: > I was a little surprised that a collection by Larry Eigner was one of > the Poetry Foundation editors' favorites. His poetry isn't > Wilshberian. But I guess that's okay to these people if you're dead. > > --Bob > ==================================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.me.com/drjazz/ Poetry Library: http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ==================================================== From almaginnes at aol.com Mon Dec 13 17:32:29 2010 From: almaginnes at aol.com (almaginnes at aol.com) Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2010 17:32:29 -0500 (EST) Subject: [New-Poetry] Best poetry books of 2010 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8CD692CC267A21B-EBC-1C26@webmail-m063.sysops.aol.com> If it ain't Tuvan throat singing I ain't listening. -----Original Message----- From: David Graham To: NewPoetry Sent: Mon, Dec 13, 2010 5:31 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Best poetry books of 2010 Just curious, and I know I will regret asking, but: is there anyone else on this list, I'm wondering, who finds the term and concept "Wilshberian" useful and meaningful? For me it's about as useful as a scheme dividing all music into (a)Tuvan throat singing and (b) everything else. On 12/13/10 4:31 PM, "Bob Grumman" wrote: > I was a little surprised that a collection by Larry Eigner was one of > the Poetry Foundation editors' favorites. His poetry isn't > Wilshberian. But I guess that's okay to these people if you're dead. > > --Bob > ==================================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.me.com/drjazz/ Poetry Library: http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ==================================================== _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From amyhappens at yahoo.com Mon Dec 13 17:59:39 2010 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king) Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2010 14:59:39 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] Best poetry books of 2010 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <21010.79592.qm@web83303.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> I read *with* Murillo last week - great?hearing the poems off the page!?? He has loads of good energy, as do his poems~ Best, Amy ? ********* VIDA: ?Women in Literary Arts +?Interviews Amy's Alias +?http://amyking.org/? ******** ________________________________ From: David Graham 5. John Murillo, Up Jump the Boogie 6. Barbara Ras, The Last Skin 7. Charles Simic, Master of Disguises 8. A.E. Stringer, Human Costume So here's a research question for you all. ?Of my list above, how many books have YOU read? ?And another: ?How many poets on that list have you heard of? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Mon Dec 13 18:06:03 2010 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2010 18:06:03 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Best poetry books of 2010 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4D06A6DB.3070208@nut-n-but.net> On 12/13/2010 5:31 PM, David Graham wrote: > Just curious, and I know I will regret asking, but: is there anyone else on > this list, I'm wondering, who finds the term and concept "Wilshberian" > useful and meaningful? How about "neonecropetry"--poetry written by poets doing nothing significantly different from what poets dead for twenty or more years did. A synonym for Wilshberia. The only kind of poetry academics are familiar with besides necropetry, the poetry of the dead, which is their favorite kind. My challenge to you, David, is to find another way of splitting up kinds of poetry. For me it's about as useful as a scheme dividing all music into (a)Tuvan throat singing and (b) everything else. I think you've got it backwards. For you it's like splitting poetry into (a) poetry you're comfortable with because it hasn't significantly changed in sixty years, and (b) poetry only I and a few other strange people like--the equivalent of Tuvan throat singing. . -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd at ripon.edu Mon Dec 13 18:12:25 2010 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2010 17:12:25 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Best poetry books of 2010 In-Reply-To: <4D06A6DB.3070208@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: On 12/13/10 5:06 PM, "Bob Grumman" wrote: > My challenge to you, David, is to find another way of splitting up kinds of > poetry. > > > For me it's about as useful as a scheme dividing all music into (a)Tuvan > throat singing and (b) everything else. > > I think you've got it backwards. For you it's like splitting poetry into (a) > poetry you're comfortable with because it hasn't significantly changed in > sixty years, and (b) poetry only I and a few other strange people like--the > equivalent of Tuvan throat singing. > ================================ > > And my challenge was not to you, Bob, but to the rest of the list: is there > ANYONE who finds your bizarre divisional scheme useful or meaningful? > > As I've said many times, my problem with "Wilshberia" is that it elides all > differences and treats a huge range of poetry (in fact, most poetry read by > most people) as "the same." As a categorical scheme that's just nutty. It's > like seeing no difference at the zoo between a starfish, a tree frog, and an > elephant. > > Hell, even *Ashbery's* poetry has changed markedly in the past 60 years. . . . > But you see no difference worth discussing between *The Tennis Court Oath* and > *The Beautiful Changes*. > > > > -- ==================================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.me.com/drjazz/ Poetry Library: http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ==================================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at gmail.com Mon Dec 13 18:42:53 2010 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2010 17:42:53 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Best poetry books of 2010 In-Reply-To: References: <4D06A6DB.3070208@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: Only three kinds of poetry: poems than I've written, poems that others have written, and poems that I haven't written yet. Okay, four. I'll make room for poems that others haven't written yet. Hal "A sudden silence in the middle of a conversation suddenly brings us back to essentials: it reveals how dearly we must pay for the invention of speech." --E. M. Cioran Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home *Mainly Black , **Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ;* *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; * ***Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; * ***G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; * *Transparencies & Projections * On Mon, Dec 13, 2010 at 5:12 PM, David Graham wrote: > > > > On 12/13/10 5:06 PM, "Bob Grumman" wrote: > > My challenge to you, David, is to find another way of splitting up kinds of > poetry. > > > > For me it's about as useful as a scheme dividing all music into (a)Tuvan > throat singing and (b) everything else. > > I think you've got it backwards. For you it's like splitting poetry into > (a) poetry you're comfortable with because it hasn't significantly changed > in sixty years, and (b) poetry only I and a few other strange people > like--the equivalent of Tuvan throat singing. > ================================ > > And my challenge was not to you, Bob, but to the rest of the list: is > there ANYONE who finds your bizarre divisional scheme useful or meaningful? > > > As I've said many times, my problem with "Wilshberia" is that it elides all > differences and treats a huge range of poetry (in fact, most poetry read by > most people) as "the same." As a categorical scheme that's just nutty. > It's like seeing no difference at the zoo between a starfish, a tree frog, > and an elephant. > > Hell, even *Ashbery's* poetry has changed markedly in the past 60 years. . > . . But you see no difference worth discussing between *The Tennis Court > Oath* and *The Beautiful Changes*. > > > > > > -- > > > ==================================================== > David Graham > grahamd at ripon.edu > Home Page: > http://web.me.com/drjazz/ > > Poetry Library: > http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html > ==================================================== > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Mon Dec 13 19:19:52 2010 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2010 19:19:52 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Best poetry books of 2010 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4D06B828.8040804@nut-n-but.net> On 12/13/2010 6:12 PM, David Graham wrote: > > > > On 12/13/10 5:06 PM, "Bob Grumman" wrote: > > My challenge to you, David, is to find another way of splitting up > kinds of poetry. > > > For me it's about as useful as a scheme dividing all music into > (a)Tuvan > throat singing and (b) everything else. > > I think you've got it backwards. For you it's like splitting > poetry into (a) poetry you're comfortable with because it hasn't > significantly changed in sixty years, and (b) poetry only I and a > few other strange people like--the equivalent of Tuvan throat singing. > ================================ > > And my challenge was not to you, Bob, but to the rest of the list: > is there ANYONE who finds your bizarre divisional scheme useful > or meaningful? > Sure. Friends of mine who write stuff different from what's written in Wilshberia. There are too many ar New-Poetry. > > As I've said many times, my problem with "Wilshberia" is that it > elides all differences and treats a huge range of poetry (in fact, > most poetry read by most people) as "the same." As a categorical > scheme that's just nutty. It's like seeing no difference at the > zoo between a starfish, a tree frog, and an elephant. > It's really more like a category for all known insects. They very tremendously, but are significantly different from all other forms of life--and, like the poems coming out of Wilshberia, are more numerous than all other (non-microscopic) life forms (I believe). > > > Hell, even *Ashbery's* poetry has changed markedly in the past 60 > years. . . . But you see no difference worth discussing between > *The Tennis Court Oath* and *The Beautiful Changes*. > All differences are worth discussion. But I don't say everybody in Wilshberia writes the same. I say none of them uses any techniques not in widespread use in 1950. I say, in particular, that the category covers all varieties of contemporary poetry from Wilbur to Ashbery. Why is that hard to grasp? And how can you say it doesn't clearly designate a group of poets? Another thing about it that you don't seem to understand is that it's hugely different from visual poetry, mathematical poetry, sound poetry, and other forms of what I call pluraesthetic poetry, and certain kinds of language poetry. The differences between Wilbur's poetry and Ashbery's are trivial compared to the differences between the poetry of either and that of Scott Helmes or Kaz Maslanka. An analogy: representational painting, still the most popular kind of painting by far, and including impressionism and surrealism. But Monet is a lot different from Picasso or Raphael or Dali. But isn't the classification valuable in distinguishing these from non-representational painters like Pollock and Francis? Ditto traditional composers and 12-toners. Anyway, the term is useful to me, so I'll continue using it. The Establishment will prevail, though, so you needn't worry that anybody in Wilshberia will accept the term. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From junction at earthlink.net Mon Dec 13 19:19:59 2010 From: junction at earthlink.net (Mark Weiss) Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2010 19:19:59 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] the future that is half upon us Message-ID: http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/12/13/the-value-of-higher-education-made-literal/?ref=opinion?hp. Read it and weep. New from Chax Press: Mark Weiss, As Landscape. $16. Order from http://www.chax.org/poets/weiss.htm "What a beautiful set of circumstances! What a lovely concatenation of particulars. Here is the poet alive in every sense of the word, and through every one of his senses. Instead of missing a beat or a part, Weiss? fragments are like Chekhov?s short stories?the more that gets left out, the more they seem to contain One can hear echoes from all the various ancestors...[but] the voice, at its center, its core, is pure Mark Weiss. His use of the fragment is both elegant and bafflingly clear, a pure musical threnody [it] opens a window, not only into a mind, but a person, a personality, this human figure at the emotional center of the poem." M.G. Stephens, in Jacket. http://jacketmagazine.com/40/r-weiss-rb-stephens.shtml -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Mon Dec 13 19:34:47 2010 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2010 16:34:47 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] Best poetry books of 2010 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <231462.43588.qm@web55203.mail.re4.yahoo.com> I'm glad that I'm not so familiar with many of the names on the list of eight. The best poetry is often not by the most established names, and these not so established, or not so widely known poets are being read. Of course, of the eight listed names, everyone knows Simic, Heaney, and Harrison. In order, we have a Pulitzer winner, a noble winner, and an established, and popular noveliest. ________________________________ From: Mark Weiss To: NewPoetry List Sent: Mon, December 13, 2010 5:18:39 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Best poetry books of 2010 In 2009 they also included my anthology The Whole Island: Six Decades of Cuban Poetry (UC Press). You can see me read and talk about it at http://media.sas.upenn.edu/watch/102088 or listen to it as an mp3 at http://media.sas.upenn.edu/pennsound/authors/Weiss/KWH_09-30-2010/Weiss-Mark_The-Whole-Island-reading_Writers-Without-Borders_KWH-Upenn_09-30-10.mp3 . Best, Mark At 04:40 PM 12/13/2010, you wrote: The staff at the Poetry Foundation has produced a list of their (personal) best books of poetry for the year 2010, with brief blurbs: > >http://www.poetryfoundation.org/harriet/2010/12/staff-picks-best-of-2010/ > >What's notable to me about this particular list is that I haven't read a single >book on it, though I read a great deal of poetry this year as always, including >quite a few published this year. 11 books on their list, and 4 of them by poets >I don't believe I've ever read. The others I've heard of, but have not read the >new books--or, in some cases, any entire books by these folks. > >Without entering the debate about the uses and abuses of such lists or the term >"best," I will say that something pretty significant about the state of >contemporary poetry is indicated by the fact that there can easily be no overlap >between my own "best" list and one from such a mainstream committee as the >Poetry Foundation folks. > >For what it's worth, the 2010 books that caught my attention most were these: > >1. Jim Harrison, In Search of Small Gods >2. Seamus Heaney, Human Chain >3. Nick Lantz, We Don't Know We Don't Know; and The Lightning That Strikes the >Neighbors' House (amazingly, he debuted with two separate collections in 2010) >4. Erika Meitner, Ideal Cities >5. John Murillo, Up Jump the Boogie >6. Barbara Ras, The Last Skin >7. Charles Simic, Master of Disguises >8. A.E. Stringer, Human Costume > >So here's a research question for you all. Of my list above, how many books >have YOU read? And another: How many poets on that list have you heard of? > >Coda: if we go back to books published in 2009 that I just caught up with in >2010, I would add the following: > >1. Adrian Blevins, Live from the Homesick Restaurant >2. Amy Gerstler, Dearest Creature >3. Mark Kraushaar, Falling Brick Kills Local Man >4. Everette Maddox, I Hope It's Not Over, and Good-Bye >5. Angela Sorby, Bird Skin Coat > >All the above comes from just lookng at my "active" poetry shelf. I am no doubt >forgetting a dozen or more books that I can't see from my desk at the moment. >======================================== >David Graham >grahamd at ripon.edu > >Home Page: >http://web.me.com/drjazz > >Poetry Library: >http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html >========================================== > > > > >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry New from Chax Press: Mark Weiss, As Landscape. $16. Order from http://www.chax.org/poets/weiss.htm "What a beautiful set of circumstances! What a lovely concatenation of particulars. Here is the poet alive in every sense of the word, and through every one of his senses. Instead of missing a beat or a part, Weiss? fragments are like Chekhov?s short stories?the more that gets left out, the more they seem to contain? One can hear echoes from all the various ancestors...[but] the voice, at its center, its core, is pure Mark Weiss. His use of the fragment is both elegant and bafflingly clear, a pure musical threnody?[it] opens a window, not only into a mind, but a person, a personality, this human figure at the emotional center of the poem." M.G. Stephens, in Jacket. http://jacketmagazine.com/40/r-weiss-rb-stephens.shtml -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Mon Dec 13 19:34:34 2010 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2010 19:34:34 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Best poetry books of 2010 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <8CD693DD0A46DF6-8D0-CA35@Webmail-m104.sysops.aol.com> It's not a pet neologism. Bob will have to update it when the bookend poets die (presuming he outlives 'em). -----Original Message----- From: David Graham To: NewPoetry Sent: Mon, Dec 13, 2010 5:31 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Best poetry books of 2010 Just curious, and I know I will regret asking, but: is there anyone else on his list, I'm wondering, who finds the term and concept "Wilshberian" seful and meaningful? For me it's about as useful as a scheme dividing all music into (a)Tuvan hroat singing and (b) everything else. On 12/13/10 4:31 PM, "Bob Grumman" wrote: > I was a little surprised that a collection by Larry Eigner was one of the Poetry Foundation editors' favorites. His poetry isn't Wilshberian. But I guess that's okay to these people if you're dead. --Bob =================================================== avid Graham rahamd at ripon.edu ome Page: ttp://web.me.com/drjazz/ Poetry Library: ttp://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html =================================================== _______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From alexdickow9 at yahoo.com Mon Dec 13 19:52:20 2010 From: alexdickow9 at yahoo.com (Alexander Dickow) Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2010 16:52:20 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] Best poetry books of 2010 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <958494.11506.qm@web35508.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I'm not sure about useful, but I do think Bob's Wilshberia category is a stimulating tool for discussion, in spite of its (to me) excessively broad contours. And more generally, I find that his categories have a sort of odd beauty of their own: I think of it as?a sort of poetic form by itself,?along the lines of a spidery system invented?by an odd, abrasive yet charming entomologist (with a bit of Melville's Ahab thrown in for extra flavor). And yes, that is a compliment, Bob, although a slightly bizarre one. Returning to the subject of our present sheep, to borrow a six-hundred-year-old French expression,?I wonder if Ashbery's Three poems would be included as part of Wilshberia? It's by Ashbery, but (I think) fairly different from his other work, and fairly singular in the tradition, it seems to me (ie I don't think the neonecropets (sp?) are writing like Three Poems). But I think the names of Wilbur and Ashbery have a kind of indexical value, rather than an absolute one: ie, they're convenient markers for a dominant style, but that may not mean that all Ashbery or all Wilbur (maybe) fall within such a category. Quid, Bob? Amicalement, Alex www.alexdickow.net/blog/ les mots! ah quel d?sert ? la fin merveilleux. -- Henri Droguet ________________________________ From: David Graham To: NewPoetry Sent: Tue, December 14, 2010 12:12:25 AM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Best poetry books of 2010 On 12/13/10 5:06 PM, "Bob Grumman" wrote: My challenge to you, David, is to find another way of splitting up kinds of poetry. >? >? >For me it's about as useful as a scheme dividing all music into (a)Tuvan >throat singing and (b) everything else. > >I think you've got it backwards. ?For you it's like splitting poetry into (a) >poetry you're comfortable with because it hasn't significantly changed in sixty >years, and (b) poetry only I and a few other strange people like--the equivalent >of Tuvan throat singing. >================================ > >And my challenge was not to you, Bob, but to the rest of the list: ?is there >ANYONE who finds your bizarre divisional scheme useful or meaningful? ? > >As I've said many times, my problem with "Wilshberia" is that it elides all >differences and treats a huge range of poetry (in fact, most poetry read by most >people) as "the same." ?As a categorical scheme that's just nutty. ?It's like >seeing no difference at the zoo between a starfish, a tree frog, and an >elephant. ? > >Hell, even *Ashbery's* poetry has changed markedly in the past 60 years. . . . >?But you see no difference worth discussing between *The Tennis Court Oath* and >*The Beautiful Changes*. > > > > > -- ==================================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.me.com/drjazz/ Poetry Library: http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ==================================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Mon Dec 13 20:00:26 2010 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2010 20:00:26 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Lists of Best Collections of a Year In-Reply-To: References: <4D040425.7010206@nut-n-but.net> <4D04B5DC.2090303@nut-n-but.net><4D057465.8050905@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <8CD69416DD01C60-8D0-CF26@Webmail-m104.sysops.aol.com> I agree with Chris on this point. Who really takes the word 'best' at face value? It's common way of presenting books (films, music, etc.,) that have somehow 'swum into the ken' of a certain reviewer or poetry maven. Bias, cronyism, fashion, taste, etc., are bound to be a part of such a list. How many books of poetry (not to mention ebooks etc.) were published last year? Perhaps Poets House has a rough guess given that they host a Showcase each year... http://www.poetshouse.org/showcase.htm But I'm sure you could multiply their estimate by two or three times at least. (Then you'd have to add a few artists who happen to use words that Bob could pile on top.) When one encounters a 'Best Of' list, doesn't one consider the source? You ask yourself what do I know about so&so (his/her tastes, his position in po-world, in po-politics, age/gender/sexual orientation, etc?...) and how much information is offered to seal the deal...to prove the case of the book being touted? But still the process is worthwhile, I think. It often pushes a few titles in front of me that I'd otherwise have missed, and wouldn't have known what I was missing. Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: Chris Lott To: NewPoetry List Sent: Mon, Dec 13, 2010 3:47 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Lists of Best Collections of a Year Either list would be useful. The point is that everyone has a ifferent understanding of the elephant that is poetry. Rather than anting everyone to shut up, I'd prefer that everyone shared. I don't ee the harm in it. Honestly, though, I'd like to see where a list of your 10 favorites ver whatever period you choose differed from your list of 10 best ver that same period. I'm not getting the distinction. For me, at east, there would be no difference between those two lists. c On Sun, Dec 12, 2010 at 4:18 PM, Bob Grumman wrote: For me, "best" does not mean "favorite," Chris. I wouldn't outlaw them nor outlaw People magazine. To each his own. Which list would you prefer: X's 10 favorite collections of 2010, excluding those published in December or X's list of favorite collections published in 2000? That was my main point a few weeks ago. This time around I was primarily discussing the Is Poetry Dead discussion, my claim being that no one can know enough about the current state of poetry to say anything very intelligent about it, or list the ten best collections of 2010, except for those published in December. --Bob _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry ______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From c.a.b.daly at gmail.com Mon Dec 13 20:50:32 2010 From: c.a.b.daly at gmail.com (Catherine Daly) Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2010 17:50:32 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] Lists of Best Collections of a Year In-Reply-To: <4D069B3E.5040206@nut-n-but.net> References: <4D040425.7010206@nut-n-but.net> <4D04B5DC.2090303@nut-n-but.net> <4D057465.8050905@nut-n-but.net> <4D069B3E.5040206@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: > > ... but just as shelves in bookstores only have so much room so that if the > storekeeper has books by mediocrities, it means he has less space for books > by better poets... why are we busy reinscribing the needs of capital in the evaluation of art? an awful book by a local teacher or a screenwriter with a career readers want or a particular topic is going to outsell a good book. the "best of" lists are often lists of what sells: see Heaney, Carson, Hughes, Grennan (sp?)... a few others in the U.S. who are the only foreigners on the lists because they've established "careers" here. this is particularly awful when one considers some of the best unknown-to-most Canadians -- oftentimes because they often live more proximately to US poets than the US poets on the other US coast I believe that such a list could be made because I'm an elitist who believes > some books are better than others, and a few much better than any others. If we got our curmudgeonly heads together, I think for every book on every "best of" list, we could come up with a better book, and for every poet, a better poet. Why is there a gap on these lists between lame new books by established poets and first-or-second books which are surprisingly decent? (Nox is a prime example, there are reasons to mistrust Carson's Catullus.) I prefer the "wow, this poet is hitting it out of the ball park" books. Not Rae Armantrout, cancer survivor (although I love that one, too), but Rae Armantrout who wears black jeans and boots, kicking her way onto the world stage for the first time. I am pleased by Julie Carr's and Rachel Loden's 2010 Ahsahta books. I published Maryrose Larkin's first book and follow her writing, but that doesn't explain the excellence of her 2010 Shearsman book. She does. Books that are so great, and so *that poet*. Poet's House is wonderful, apparently, but one issue is that for those of us who are not in New York is that we can send in our books, but they won't give us a membership in exchange for our donation (book cost $) to go and visit them. It is wrong. Catherine Daly -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Mon Dec 13 21:16:53 2010 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2010 21:16:53 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] MFA vs. NYC Message-ID: <8CD694C1BC796AA-8D0-E073@Webmail-m104.sysops.aol.com> http://www.slate.com/id/2275733/ MFA vs. NYC America now has two distinct literary cultures. Which one will last? By Chad Harbach Posted Friday, Nov. 26, 2010, at 7:21 AM ET / -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jjeffreymail at yahoo.com Mon Dec 13 21:12:00 2010 From: jjeffreymail at yahoo.com (John Jeffrey) Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2010 18:12:00 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] Wilshberia In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <276833.31241.qm@web120515.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> What I like about the term is it distinguishes the good poetry--the poetry that plays in Wilshberia (a lovely, gated community with a long, distinguished history)--from all that ersatz mixed-media stuff that wants to get inside and squat. John J ________________________________ From: David Graham To: NewPoetry Sent: Mon, December 13, 2010 5:31:06 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Best poetry books of 2010 Just curious, and I know I will regret asking, but: is there anyone else on this list, I'm wondering, who finds the term and concept "Wilshberian" useful and meaningful? For me it's about as useful as a scheme dividing all music into (a)Tuvan throat singing and (b) everything else. On 12/13/10 4:31 PM, "Bob Grumman" wrote: > I was a little surprised that a collection by Larry Eigner was one of > the Poetry Foundation editors' favorites. His poetry isn't > Wilshberian. But I guess that's okay to these people if you're dead. > > --Bob > ==================================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.me.com/drjazz/ Poetry Library: http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ==================================================== _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From carol.dorf at gmail.com Mon Dec 13 21:46:37 2010 From: carol.dorf at gmail.com (carol dorf) Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2010 18:46:37 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] Best poetry books of 2010 In-Reply-To: <958494.11506.qm@web35508.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <958494.11506.qm@web35508.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Why doesn't everyone send out their own list -- it would be good reading for the rest of us. Personally, I don't seem to be able to get a comprehensive list of readings done, but I've liked the new books by Camille Martin, Amy King, Leslie Wheeler, Lisa Robertson and Charles Simic this year. So top ten, who knows, but they were worth reading. Carol poetry at talkingwriting.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd at ripon.edu Mon Dec 13 22:05:02 2010 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2010 21:05:02 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Best poetry books of 2010 In-Reply-To: References: <958494.11506.qm@web35508.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <46E7C564-E6CD-4372-8D72-CA654D3B25A3@ripon.edu> On Dec 13, 2010, at 8:46 PM, carol dorf wrote: > Why doesn't everyone send out their own list -- it would be good reading for the rest of us. > > Personally, I don't seem to be able to get a comprehensive list of readings done, but I've liked the new books by Camille Martin, Amy King, Leslie Wheeler, Lisa Robertson and Charles Simic this year. So top ten, who knows, but they were worth reading. > > Carol =============== An excellent idea, Carol. I've already reeled of some of my own favorites, but let me speak up in particular for a poet that Amy King also mentioned: John Murillo. His debut book, *Up Jump the Boogie*, was for me the most welcome surprise this year. He came out of nowhere, more or less, with a first book that is cohesive, quirky, musical, and mature. I'd never heard of him before, and his book came out from Cypher Books--not exactly Knopf or Copper Canyon. Luckily, an editor friend of mine had published some of his work, and recommended him when I asked her who was new & hot. A group review by Wendy Vardaman (my editor friend) covers Murillo's book here: http://www.versewisconsin.org/Issue103/prose103/vardaman.html More info, sample poems, and some audio of Murillo reading here: http://www.fishousepoems.org/archives/john_murillo/index.shtml ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.me.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From c.a.b.daly at gmail.com Mon Dec 13 21:28:47 2010 From: c.a.b.daly at gmail.com (Catherine Daly) Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2010 18:28:47 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] Wilshberia In-Reply-To: <276833.31241.qm@web120515.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <276833.31241.qm@web120515.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: or about the demonization of gated communities -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From junction at earthlink.net Mon Dec 13 22:22:38 2010 From: junction at earthlink.net (Mark Weiss) Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2010 22:22:38 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Wilshberia In-Reply-To: References: <276833.31241.qm@web120515.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Gated communities aren't the problem, Catherine, it's the sometimes need of them and othertimes desire for them. At 09:28 PM 12/13/2010, you wrote: >or about the demonization of gated communities > >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry New from Chax Press: Mark Weiss, As Landscape. $16. Order from http://www.chax.org/poets/weiss.htm "What a beautiful set of circumstances! What a lovely concatenation of particulars. Here is the poet alive in every sense of the word, and through every one of his senses. Instead of missing a beat or a part, Weiss? fragments are like Chekhov?s short stories?the more that gets left out, the more they seem to contain One can hear echoes from all the various ancestors...[but] the voice, at its center, its core, is pure Mark Weiss. His use of the fragment is both elegant and bafflingly clear, a pure musical threnody [it] opens a window, not only into a mind, but a person, a personality, this human figure at the emotional center of the poem." M.G. Stephens, in Jacket. http://jacketmagazine.com/40/r-weiss-rb-stephens.shtml -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd at ripon.edu Tue Dec 14 00:24:27 2010 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2010 23:24:27 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Best poetry books of 2010 In-Reply-To: <8CD6926870AFCD1-EBC-106F@webmail-m063.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CD6926870AFCD1-EBC-106F@webmail-m063.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: On Dec 13, 2010, at 3:48 PM, AlMaginnes at aol.com wrote: > OK, David, of your list (both years) I've heard of all the poets. I've read Nick Lantz's books and Heaney's and Meitner's are on my list (probably going to wait for the paperbacks; Heaney stopped being a poet I felt compelled to buy in hardcover a book or two ago). Harrison's poems I've always been a little iffy on although I have liked some a great deal and I love his collection Letters to Yesenin. From 2009 I've read Mark Krashuar's book and I was entirely unaware there was something else out there by Everette Maddox. So thanks. > > I will cast about and see what my best of list for 2010 looks like. > > Al > ================= I certainly agree that Jim Harrison is pretty uneven as a poet. But there are always enough poems in a book to make it worth my time, I find. Heaney's been pretty uneven lately, also, though when I looked into Human Chain I agreed with all the reviews proclaiming it his best in a long while. Nothing like a near-death experience to capture one's imagination, I guess. Kraushaar was new to me; his book blew me away this past summer. Don't know a thing about him, but to judge by his jacket photo, he must have had a long foreground before putting out this debut collection. The Everette Maddox collection is a selected edition--maybe the only thing currently in print. He was new to me, also, though I'd heard his name for years, and read a few poems friends had sent me. ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.me.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From c.a.b.daly at gmail.com Tue Dec 14 00:37:38 2010 From: c.a.b.daly at gmail.com (Catherine Daly) Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2010 21:37:38 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] Best poetry books of 2010 In-Reply-To: <4D06A6DB.3070208@nut-n-but.net> References: <4D06A6DB.3070208@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: > > How about "neonecropetry"--poetry written by poets doing nothing > significantly different from what poets dead for twenty or more years did. > A synonym for Wilshberia. The only kind of poetry academics are familiar > with besides necropetry, the poetry of the dead, which is their favorite > kind. > > Well, "Twilight" is already taken... -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From obodooha at gmail.com Tue Dec 14 03:45:12 2010 From: obodooha at gmail.com (Obododimma Oha) Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2010 00:45:12 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] The Police in Our Bandaged Heads Message-ID: "For those of us on the other side of image making, the police are unwelcome postcolonial replacements of the masquerade. In place of the cane that mmanwu the masquerade used to carry, the policeman carries a cudgel, euphemized as a ?baton.? The policeman, like a terrible type of mmanwu, also carries egbe cham, a shotgun, and could shoot at the least provocation. Don?t mess with this kind of performing ekwensu, or you could fall asleep and wake up to find yourself in the land of the dead." Read the full text of "The Police in Our Bandaged Heads" at: http://234next.com/csp/cms/sites/Next/Opinion/5653456-146/story.csp -- *Obododimma Oha* http://udude.wordpress.com/ (*Associate Professor of Cultural Semiotics & Stylistics*) Dept. of English University of Ibadan Nigeria & *Fellow*, Centre for Peace & Conflict Studies University of Ibadan Phone: +234 803 333 1330; +234 805 350 6604; +234 808 264 8060. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Tue Dec 14 06:20:45 2010 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2010 06:20:45 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Best poetry books of 2010 In-Reply-To: <8CD693DD0A46DF6-8D0-CA35@Webmail-m104.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CD693DD0A46DF6-8D0-CA35@Webmail-m104.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <4D07530C.4080100@nut-n-but.net> On 12/13/2010 7:34 PM, jforjames at aol.com wrote: > It's not a pet neologism. Bob will have to update it when the bookend > poets die (presuming he outlives 'em). Their deaths wouldn't change anything. "Wilshberia" will mean "the only poetry academics consider worth bothering with" for at least another twenty years. It will still be useful then for "the poetry dominant from around 1960 to 2030." It'd be hard to replace, anyway. What two poets could I base the replacement on who had names that fit each other as well as Wilbur and Ashbery and represented the poets the term is supposed to. "Wilshberia" is also historically accurate in that I took it from something several academics used to say when trying to show how wide their taste was: "Why, I read with enjoyment poets ranging from Wilbur to Ashbery." One such said it in his editor's introduction to one of the "Best American Poetry" books, which is when I made up the term. The fellow had read thirty or so magazines to make his selection. He was really on top of things. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Tue Dec 14 06:29:10 2010 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2010 06:29:10 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Best poetry books of 2010 In-Reply-To: <958494.11506.qm@web35508.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <958494.11506.qm@web35508.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4D075506.1060006@nut-n-but.net> On 12/13/2010 7:52 PM, Alexander Dickow wrote: > I'm not sure about useful, but I do think Bob's Wilshberia category is > a stimulating tool for discussion, in spite of its (to me) excessively > broad contours. And more generally, I find that his categories have a > sort of odd beauty of their own: I think of it as a sort of poetic > form by itself, along the lines of a spidery system invented by an > odd, abrasive yet charming entomologist (with a bit of Melville's Ahab > thrown in for extra flavor). And yes, that is a compliment, Bob, > although a slightly bizarre one. Returning to the subject of our > present sheep, to borrow a six-hundred-year-old French expression, I > wonder if Ashbery's Three poems would be included as part of > Wilshberia? It's by Ashbery, but (I think) fairly different from his > other work, and fairly singular in the tradition, it seems to me (ie I > don't think the neonecropets (sp?) are writing like Three Poems). But > I think the names of Wilbur and Ashbery have a kind of indexical > value, rather than an absolute one: ie, they're convenient markers for > a dominant style, but that may not mean that all Ashbery or all Wilbur > (maybe) fall within such a category. > Quid, Bob? > Amicalement, > Alex > Not dominant style, dominant practice--use of words only, without real derangement of spelling or grammar. I don't know Three Poems but suspect they are like everything else I know of his work--jump-cut poems in the manner of "The Wasteland." Could be wrong, and it wouldn't bother me to learn Ashbery or Wilbur has done non-Wilshberian poems. "Wilshberia" is not one of my taxonomical classes, it's just as you say, Alex, a term that I hope is useful for discussion, an easy way to refer to what the Establishment likes versus what else is out there, including haiku, which a fair number of Wilshberian poets write. Thanks for the comment, Alex. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Tue Dec 14 06:33:42 2010 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2010 06:33:42 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Lists of Best Collections of a Year In-Reply-To: <8CD69416DD01C60-8D0-CF26@Webmail-m104.sysops.aol.com> References: <4D040425.7010206@nut-n-but.net><4D04B5DC.2090303@nut-n -but.net><4D057465.8050905@nut-n-but.net> <8CD69416DD01C60-8D0-CF26@Webmail-m104.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <4D075616.5070106@nut-n-but.net> On 12/13/2010 8:00 PM, jforjames at aol.com wrote: > I agree with Chris on this point. Who really takes the word 'best' at > face value? Everybody. But it doesn't bother those who find their kind of poetry always on such lists. Naturally, it rather bothers those who find their kind of poetry never on such lists. But I'm a stickler for requiring words to mean something. I know that the word "free" doesn't mean anything in advertisements but even now that I realize that a "free book" is going probably to cost me $5 shipping, handling and tax, it angers me. --Bob --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Tue Dec 14 06:46:12 2010 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2010 06:46:12 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Wilshberia In-Reply-To: <276833.31241.qm@web120515.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <276833.31241.qm@web120515.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4D075904.8000609@nut-n-but.net> On 12/13/2010 9:12 PM, John Jeffrey wrote: > What I like about the term is it distinguishes the good poetry--the > poetry that plays in Wilshberia (a lovely, gated community with a > long, distinguished history)--from all that ersatz mixed-media stuff > that wants to get inside and squat. > > John J Exactly. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From almaginnes at aol.com Tue Dec 14 08:03:30 2010 From: almaginnes at aol.com (almaginnes at aol.com) Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2010 08:03:30 -0500 (EST) Subject: [New-Poetry] Best poetry books of 2010 In-Reply-To: References: <8CD6926870AFCD1-EBC-106F@webmail-m063.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <8CD69A6703063AD-908-155D@angweb-usd004.sysops.aol.com> I saw some poems by Kraushaar in Missouri Review last spring and ordered his book. I know nothing about him either, but he looks to have been around a while. Good poet. I remember your championing John Murillo a while back. There's a nice book of essays, letters, poems and riffs on Maddox called Thirteen Ways of Looking at a Possum put ou by Xavier University Press I think. -----Original Message----- From: David Graham To: NewPoetry List Sent: Tue, Dec 14, 2010 12:24 am Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Best poetry books of 2010 On Dec 13, 2010, at 3:48 PM, AlMaginnes at aol.com wrote: OK, David, of your list (both years) I've heard of all the poets. I've read Nick Lantz's books and Heaney's and Meitner's are on my list (probably going to wait for the paperbacks; Heaney stopped being a poet I felt compelled to buy in hardcover a book or two ago). Harrison's poems I've always been a little iffy on although I have liked some a great deal and I love his collection Letters to Yesenin. From 2009 I've read Mark Krashuar's book and I was entirely unaware there was something else out there by Everette Maddox. So thanks. I will cast about and see what my best of list for 2010 looks like. Al ================= I certainly agree that Jim Harrison is pretty uneven as a poet. But there are always enough poems in a book to make it worth my time, I find. Heaney's been pretty uneven lately, also, though when I looked into Human Chain I agreed with all the reviews proclaiming it his best in a long while. Nothing like a near-death experience to capture one's imagination, I guess. Kraushaar was new to me; his book blew me away this past summer. Don't know a thing about him, but to judge by his jacket photo, he must have had a long foreground before putting out this debut collection. The Everette Maddox collection is a selected edition--maybe the only thing currently in print. He was new to me, also, though I'd heard his name for years, and read a few poems friends had sent me. ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.me.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Tue Dec 14 10:53:48 2010 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2010 10:53:48 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Wilshberia In-Reply-To: <276833.31241.qm@web120515.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <276833.31241.qm@web120515.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4D07930C.60800@nut-n-but.net> On 12/13/2010 9:12 PM, John Jeffrey wrote: > What I like about the term is it distinguishes the good poetry--the > poetry that plays in Wilshberia (a lovely, gated community with a > long, distinguished history)--from all that ersatz mixed-media stuff > that wants to get inside and squat. > > John J > I forgot to add that it also keeps out ersatz stuff that isn't mixed media like haiku and other forms of minimalist poetry, language poems that do criminal things with grammar and spelling, and what I call contra-genteel poetry, which is poetry that just isn't polite, like some of Bukowski's work. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd at ripon.edu Tue Dec 14 10:53:51 2010 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2010 09:53:51 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Wilshberia In-Reply-To: <4D07930C.60800@nut-n-but.net> References: <276833.31241.qm@web120515.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <4D07930C.60800@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: Yeah, if only The New Yorker would print more Bukowski and Helen Vendler would review his work, then he'd finally sell some books. . . . ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.me.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== On Dec 14, 2010, at 9:53 AM, Bob Grumman wrote: > On 12/13/2010 9:12 PM, John Jeffrey wrote: >> >> What I like about the term is it distinguishes the good poetry--the poetry that plays in Wilshberia (a lovely, gated community with a long, distinguished history)--from all that ersatz mixed-media stuff that wants to get inside and squat. >> >> John J >> > I forgot to add that it also keeps out ersatz stuff that isn't mixed media like haiku and other forms of minimalist poetry, language poems that do criminal things with grammar and spelling, and what I call contra-genteel poetry, which is poetry that just isn't polite, like some of Bukowski's work. > > --Bob > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at gmail.com Tue Dec 14 11:10:42 2010 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2010 10:10:42 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Best poetry books of 2010 In-Reply-To: References: <8CD6926870AFCD1-EBC-106F@webmail-m063.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: I rather like uneven poets, being one myself. It's sort of like hiking in the mountains rather than across a dry, barren plain, hoping to come across water. Hal "A sudden silence in the middle of a conversation suddenly brings us back to essentials: it reveals how dearly we must pay for the invention of speech." --E. M. Cioran Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home *Mainly Black , **Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ;* *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; * ***Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; * ***G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; * *Transparencies & Projections * On Mon, Dec 13, 2010 at 11:24 PM, David Graham wrote: > > > > On Dec 13, 2010, at 3:48 PM, AlMaginnes at aol.com wrote: > > OK, David, of your list (both years) I've heard of all the poets. I've > read Nick Lantz's books and Heaney's and Meitner's are on my list (probably > going to wait for the paperbacks; Heaney stopped being a poet I felt > compelled to buy in hardcover a book or two ago). Harrison's poems I've > always been a little iffy on although I have liked some a great deal and I > love his collection Letters to Yesenin. From 2009 I've read Mark Krashuar's > book and I was entirely unaware there was something else out there by > Everette Maddox. So thanks. > > I will cast about and see what my best of list for 2010 looks like. > > Al > ================= > > > I certainly agree that Jim Harrison is pretty uneven as a poet. But there > are always enough poems in a book to make it worth my time, I find. > > Heaney's been pretty uneven lately, also, though when I looked into Human > Chain I agreed with all the reviews proclaiming it his best in a long while. > Nothing like a near-death experience to capture one's imagination, I guess. > > Kraushaar was new to me; his book blew me away this past summer. Don't > know a thing about him, but to judge by his jacket photo, he must have had a > long foreground before putting out this debut collection. > > The Everette Maddox collection is a selected edition--maybe the only thing > currently in print. He was new to me, also, though I'd heard his name for > years, and read a few poems friends had sent me. > > > ======================================== > David Graham > grahamd at ripon.edu > > Home Page: > http://web.me.com/drjazz > > Poetry Library: > http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html > ========================================== > > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Tue Dec 14 11:41:15 2010 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2010 11:41:15 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Wilshberia In-Reply-To: References: <276833.31241.qm@web120515.mail.ne1.yahoo.com><4D07930C.60800@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <4D079E2B.7070904@nut-n-but.net> On 12/14/2010 10:53 AM, David Graham wrote: > Yeah, if only The New Yorker would print more Bukowski and Helen > Vendler would review his work, then he'd finally sell some books. . . . Oops, you're right. Bukowski proves that one poet in a million can make money as a poet without being a Wilshberian, so the trivial fact that 99% of the poets in this country making money as poets (mainly through grants) are Wilshberians should not be taken to mean that Wilshberia is some kind of gated community. --Bob From cervantes.james at gmail.com Tue Dec 14 11:29:08 2010 From: cervantes.james at gmail.com (James Cervantes) Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2010 09:29:08 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Best poetry books of 2010 In-Reply-To: References: <8CD6926870AFCD1-EBC-106F@webmail-m063.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: Count me as one also. The Ridgeline School of Poetics. Nah. We don't like school, either. - Jim On Tue, Dec 14, 2010 at 9:10 AM, Halvard Johnson wrote: > I rather like uneven poets, being one myself. It's sort of > like hiking in the mountains rather than across a dry, barren > plain, hoping to come across water. > > Hal > > "A sudden silence in the middle of a conversation > suddenly brings us back to essentials: it reveals > how dearly we must pay for the invention of speech." > > --E. M. Cioran > > Halvard Johnson > ================ > > halvard at gmail.com > http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > http://www.hamiltonstone.org > > http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home > > *Mainly Black > , **Obras P?blicas > ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets > ;* > *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones > ; **Tango Bouquet > ; **Theory of Harmony > ; * > ***Rapsodie espagnole > ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway > ; **The Sonnet Project > ; * > ***G(e)nome ; **Winter > Journey ; **Eclipse > ; **The Dance of the Red Swan > ;* > *Transparencies & Projections > * > > > > > On Mon, Dec 13, 2010 at 11:24 PM, David Graham wrote: > >> >> >> >> On Dec 13, 2010, at 3:48 PM, AlMaginnes at aol.com wrote: >> >> OK, David, of your list (both years) I've heard of all the poets. I've >> read Nick Lantz's books and Heaney's and Meitner's are on my list (probably >> going to wait for the paperbacks; Heaney stopped being a poet I felt >> compelled to buy in hardcover a book or two ago). Harrison's poems I've >> always been a little iffy on although I have liked some a great deal and I >> love his collection Letters to Yesenin. From 2009 I've read Mark Krashuar's >> book and I was entirely unaware there was something else out there by >> Everette Maddox. So thanks. >> >> I will cast about and see what my best of list for 2010 looks like. >> >> Al >> ================= >> >> >> I certainly agree that Jim Harrison is pretty uneven as a poet. But there >> are always enough poems in a book to make it worth my time, I find. >> >> Heaney's been pretty uneven lately, also, though when I looked into Human >> Chain I agreed with all the reviews proclaiming it his best in a long while. >> Nothing like a near-death experience to capture one's imagination, I guess. >> >> Kraushaar was new to me; his book blew me away this past summer. Don't >> know a thing about him, but to judge by his jacket photo, he must have had a >> long foreground before putting out this debut collection. >> >> The Everette Maddox collection is a selected edition--maybe the only thing >> currently in print. He was new to me, also, though I'd heard his name for >> years, and read a few poems friends had sent me. >> >> >> ======================================== >> David Graham >> grahamd at ripon.edu >> >> Home Page: >> http://web.me.com/drjazz >> >> Poetry Library: >> http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html >> ========================================== >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning http://www.fieralingue.it/documenti/mr_bondo.pdf http://www.poetserv.org/jvc/home/index.html http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamescervantes/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at gmail.com Tue Dec 14 12:05:31 2010 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2010 11:05:31 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Best poetry books of 2010 In-Reply-To: References: <8CD6926870AFCD1-EBC-106F@webmail-m063.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: You're in, Jim. Like Flynn. Hal "A sudden silence in the middle of a conversation suddenly brings us back to essentials: it reveals how dearly we must pay for the invention of speech." --E. M. Cioran Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home *Mainly Black , **Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ;* *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; * ***Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; * ***G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; * *Transparencies & Projections * On Tue, Dec 14, 2010 at 10:29 AM, James Cervantes wrote: > Count me as one also. The Ridgeline School of Poetics. Nah. We don't > like school, either. > > - Jim > > > On Tue, Dec 14, 2010 at 9:10 AM, Halvard Johnson wrote: > >> I rather like uneven poets, being one myself. It's sort of >> like hiking in the mountains rather than across a dry, barren >> plain, hoping to come across water. >> >> Hal >> >> "A sudden silence in the middle of a conversation >> suddenly brings us back to essentials: it reveals >> how dearly we must pay for the invention of speech." >> >> --E. M. Cioran >> >> Halvard Johnson >> ================ >> >> halvard at gmail.com >> http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home >> http://entropyandme.blogspot.com >> http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com >> http://www.hamiltonstone.org >> >> http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home >> >> *Mainly Black >> , **Obras P?blicas >> ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets >> ;* >> *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones >> ; **Tango Bouquet >> ; **Theory of Harmony >> ; * >> ***Rapsodie espagnole >> ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway >> ; **The Sonnet Project >> ; * >> ***G(e)nome ; **Winter >> Journey ; **Eclipse >> ; **The Dance of the Red Swan >> ;* >> *Transparencies & Projections >> * >> >> >> >> >> On Mon, Dec 13, 2010 at 11:24 PM, David Graham wrote: >> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Dec 13, 2010, at 3:48 PM, AlMaginnes at aol.com wrote: >>> >>> OK, David, of your list (both years) I've heard of all the poets. I've >>> read Nick Lantz's books and Heaney's and Meitner's are on my list (probably >>> going to wait for the paperbacks; Heaney stopped being a poet I felt >>> compelled to buy in hardcover a book or two ago). Harrison's poems I've >>> always been a little iffy on although I have liked some a great deal and I >>> love his collection Letters to Yesenin. From 2009 I've read Mark Krashuar's >>> book and I was entirely unaware there was something else out there by >>> Everette Maddox. So thanks. >>> >>> I will cast about and see what my best of list for 2010 looks like. >>> >>> Al >>> ================= >>> >>> >>> I certainly agree that Jim Harrison is pretty uneven as a poet. But >>> there are always enough poems in a book to make it worth my time, I find. >>> >>> Heaney's been pretty uneven lately, also, though when I looked into Human >>> Chain I agreed with all the reviews proclaiming it his best in a long while. >>> Nothing like a near-death experience to capture one's imagination, I guess. >>> >>> Kraushaar was new to me; his book blew me away this past summer. Don't >>> know a thing about him, but to judge by his jacket photo, he must have had a >>> long foreground before putting out this debut collection. >>> >>> The Everette Maddox collection is a selected edition--maybe the only >>> thing currently in print. He was new to me, also, though I'd heard his name >>> for years, and read a few poems friends had sent me. >>> >>> >>> ======================================== >>> David Graham >>> grahamd at ripon.edu >>> >>> Home Page: >>> http://web.me.com/drjazz >>> >>> Poetry Library: >>> http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html >>> ========================================== >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> New-Poetry mailing list >>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > > > -- > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org > http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning > http://www.fieralingue.it/documenti/mr_bondo.pdf > http://www.poetserv.org/jvc/home/index.html > http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamescervantes/ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Tue Dec 14 12:23:55 2010 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2010 12:23:55 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Lists of Best Collections of a Year In-Reply-To: <4D075616.5070106@nut-n-but.net> References: <4D040425.7010206@nut-n-but.net><4D04B5DC.2090303@nut-n-but.net><4D057465.8050905@nut-n-but.net><8CD69416DD01C60-8D0-CF26@Webmail-m104.sysops.aol.com> <4D075616.5070106@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <8CD69CAD21AA607-C30-E75A@webmail-d084.sysops.aol.com> I'm got a new term/name to refer to you: Bob 'the woodcutter' Grumman, because you have more axes to grind than anyone I know. -----Original Message----- From: Bob Grumman To: NewPoetry List Sent: Tue, Dec 14, 2010 6:33 am Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Lists of Best Collections of a Year On 12/13/2010 8:00 PM, jforjames at aol.com wrote: I agree with Chris on this point. Who really takes the word 'best' at face value? Everybody. But it doesn't bother those who find their kind of poetry always on such lists. Naturally, it rather bothers those who find their kind of poetry never on such lists. But I'm a stickler for requiring words to mean something. I know that the word "free" doesn't mean anything in advertisements but even now that I realize that a "free book" is going probably to cost me $5 shipping, handling and tax, it angers me. --Bob --Bob _______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fox.skip at gmail.com Tue Dec 14 12:28:29 2010 From: fox.skip at gmail.com (Skip Fox) Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2010 11:28:29 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] There is uneven and then there is uneven . . . Message-ID: Halvard Johnson to NewPoetry show details 10:10 AM (1 hour ago) I rather like uneven poets, being one myself. It's sort of like hiking in the mountains rather than across a dry, barren plain, hoping to come across water. Hal ****** Hal, I would consider someone's work in which every piece is interesting and well written to be "uneven" only in a limited, and not quite anticipated, way. Skip -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at gmail.com Tue Dec 14 12:29:50 2010 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2010 11:29:50 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Lists of Best Collections of a Year In-Reply-To: <8CD69CAD21AA607-C30-E75A@webmail-d084.sysops.aol.com> References: <4D040425.7010206@nut-n-but.net> <4D04B5DC.2090303@nut-n-but.net> <4D057465.8050905@nut-n-but.net> <8CD69416DD01C60-8D0-CF26@Webmail-m104.sysops.aol.com> <4D075616.5070106@nut-n-but.net> <8CD69CAD21AA607-C30-E75A@webmail-d084.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: Der Holzhacker Hal "A sudden silence in the middle of a conversation suddenly brings us back to essentials: it reveals how dearly we must pay for the invention of speech." --E. M. Cioran Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home *Mainly Black , **Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ;* *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; * ***Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; * ***G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; * *Transparencies & Projections * On Tue, Dec 14, 2010 at 11:23 AM, wrote: > > I'm got a new term/name to refer to you: Bob 'the woodcutter' Grumman, > because you have more axes to grind than anyone I know. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Bob Grumman > To: NewPoetry List > Sent: Tue, Dec 14, 2010 6:33 am > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Lists of Best Collections of a Year > > On 12/13/2010 8:00 PM, jforjames at aol.com wrote: > > I agree with Chris on this point. Who really takes the word 'best' at face > value? > > Everybody. But it doesn't bother those who find their kind of poetry > always on such lists. Naturally, it rather bothers those who find their > kind of poetry never on such lists. > > But I'm a stickler for requiring words to mean something. I know that the > word "free" doesn't mean anything in advertisements but even now that I > realize that a "free book" is going probably to cost me $5 shipping, > handling and tax, it angers me. > > --Bob > > --Bob > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing listNew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.eduhttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Tue Dec 14 13:34:30 2010 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2010 13:34:30 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Lists of Best Collections of a Year In-Reply-To: <8CD69CAD21AA607-C30-E75A@webmail-d084.sysops.aol.com> References: <4D040425.7010206@nut-n-but.net><4D04B5DC.2090303@nut-n -but.net><4D057465.8050905@nut-n-but.net><8CD69416DD01C60-8D0-CF26@Webmail-m104.sysops.aol.com><4D075616.5070106@nut-n-but.net> <8CD69CAD21AA607-C30-E75A@webmail-d084.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <4D07B8B6.3080300@nut-n-but.net> On 12/14/2010 12:23 PM, jforjames at aol.com wrote: > > I'm got a new term/name to refer to you: Bob 'the woodcutter' Grumman, > because you have more axes to grind than anyone I know. Haw, James, there's really only one: Death to the Establishment!!!! Hey, is there a phrase for people who always have an ax to dull? --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd at ripon.edu Tue Dec 14 14:44:16 2010 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2010 13:44:16 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Best poetry books of 2010 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On 12/14/10 10:10 AM, "Halvard Johnson" wrote: > I rather like uneven poets, being one myself. It's sort of > like hiking in the mountains rather than across a dry, barren > plain, hoping to come across water. > > Hal > ==================== > > I once purchased a copy of Madame Bovary, and when I got it home, discovered > that several chapters were missing. They were replaced by one chapter being > repeated, and a few pages of those were illegible or printed upside down. > > Talk about uneven! I liked that. So much less boring than the regular novel > would have been. -- ==================================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.me.com/drjazz/ Poetry Library: http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ==================================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at gmail.com Tue Dec 14 14:52:34 2010 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2010 13:52:34 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Best poetry books of 2010 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: And that was even before Woody Allen went to work on it! Hal "A sudden silence in the middle of a conversation suddenly brings us back to essentials: it reveals how dearly we must pay for the invention of speech." --E. M. Cioran Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home *Mainly Black , **Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ;* *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; * ***Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; * ***G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; * *Transparencies & Projections * On Tue, Dec 14, 2010 at 1:44 PM, David Graham wrote: > > > > On 12/14/10 10:10 AM, "Halvard Johnson" wrote: > > I rather like uneven poets, being one myself. It's sort of > like hiking in the mountains rather than across a dry, barren > plain, hoping to come across water. > > Hal > ==================== > > I once purchased a copy of Madame Bovary, and when I got it home, > discovered that several chapters were missing. They were replaced by one > chapter being repeated, and a few pages of those were illegible or printed > upside down. > > Talk about uneven! I liked that. So much less boring than the regular > novel would have been. > > > -- > > > ==================================================== > > David Graham > grahamd at ripon.edu > Home Page: > http://web.me.com/drjazz/ > > Poetry Library: > http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html > ==================================================== > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Tue Dec 14 15:46:01 2010 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2010 12:46:01 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] Best poetry books of 2010 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <462722.44548.qm@web55207.mail.re4.yahoo.com> Does an even poet look like a perfectly cut hedge? & how boring is that? As for the top 10 books of poetry, can we also do playoffs? Maybe have a championship game, something similiar to Auburn?vs Oregon. Auburn, an SEC school, will win the football thing. The poetry thing may be more interesting, and bloody. ? ________________________________ From: David Graham To: NewPoetry Sent: Tue, December 14, 2010 2:44:16 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Best poetry books of 2010 On 12/14/10 10:10 AM, "Halvard Johnson" wrote: I rather like uneven poets, being one myself. It's sort of >like hiking in the mountains rather than across a dry, barren >plain, hoping to come across water. > >Hal >==================== > >I once purchased a copy of Madame Bovary, and when I got it home, discovered >that several chapters were missing. ?They were replaced by one chapter being >repeated, and a few pages of those were illegible or printed upside down. > >Talk about uneven! ?I liked that. ?So much less boring than the regular novel >would have been. > -- ==================================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.me.com/drjazz/ Poetry Library: http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ==================================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From barry.spacks at verizon.net Tue Dec 14 15:40:42 2010 From: barry.spacks at verizon.net (Barry Spacks) Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2010 12:40:42 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] Naming with the Enemy In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4089CAAF-87E4-4DCD-8AB0-C21863C40E10@verizon.net> > jforjames at aol.com wrote: > > I'm got a new term/name to refer to you: Bob 'the woodcutter' > Grumman... As I've noted here at various ax-grinding moments, I find the passion for subdividing poetic art into Procrustean boxes anti-creative, especially when self-appointed categoristas provide labels (hard to deny) not a little barbed with the hint of a sneer. But if we must march under a contentious guidon, others now seem invited to shout out their own cadence along with the Outrageously Ignored. So I take up the challenge of seeking a substitute for Wilshberia (sweet as it sounds) and propose WilshBobia (which takes us further along the continuum of the years) or the neat over-all structure: POEMS / ODDITIES. You're welcome, Barry From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Tue Dec 14 16:58:23 2010 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2010 16:58:23 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Naming with the Enemy In-Reply-To: <4089CAAF-87E4-4DCD-8AB0-C21863C40E10@verizon.net> References: <4089CAAF-87E4-4DCD-8AB0-C21863C40E10@verizon.net> Message-ID: <4D07E87F.5070603@nut-n-but.net> > So I take up the challenge of seeking a substitute > for Wilshberia (sweet as it sounds) and propose > WilshBobia (which takes us further along the continuum of the years) > or the neat over-all structure: POEMS / ODDITIES. > > You're welcome, > > Barry > > Sounds to me like the poetry continuum from Wilbur to Bob, and it should be spelled "Wilshbobbia," shouldn't it? If you want to name the little group of villages outside Wilshberia, Barry, "Silligrummania" might be better--although I really don't think my name deserves to be in it. --Bob. > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Tue Dec 14 16:59:35 2010 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2010 16:59:35 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Best poetry books of 2010 In-Reply-To: <462722.44548.qm@web55207.mail.re4.yahoo.com> References: <462722.44548.qm@web55207.mail.re4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4D07E8C7.9060803@nut-n-but.net> On 12/14/2010 3:46 PM, stephen russell wrote: > Does an even poet look like a perfectly cut hedge? > & how boring is that? > As for the top 10 books of poetry, can we also do playoffs? > Maybe have a championship game, something similiar to Auburn vs Oregon. > Auburn, an SEC school, will win the football thing. > The poetry thing may be more interesting, and bloody. > The problem is all the teams wear the same uniforms. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fox.skip at gmail.com Tue Dec 14 19:00:35 2010 From: fox.skip at gmail.com (Skip Fox) Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2010 18:00:35 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Best poetry books of 2010 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hal, I'd not use "uneven" to describe someone's poetry which is invariably interesting and well written without qualification. skip On Tue, Dec 14, 2010 at 1:44 PM, David Graham wrote: > > > > On 12/14/10 10:10 AM, "Halvard Johnson" wrote: > > I rather like uneven poets, being one myself. It's sort of > like hiking in the mountains rather than across a dry, barren > plain, hoping to come across water. > > Hal > ==================== > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd at ripon.edu Tue Dec 14 20:18:48 2010 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2010 19:18:48 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Last Wilshberia post for now In-Reply-To: <4D07E8C7.9060803@nut-n-but.net> References: <462722.44548.qm@web55207.mail.re4.yahoo.com> <4D07E8C7.9060803@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <9CED1B64-6485-4644-BE55-075C8F91D17B@ripon.edu> Bob yesterday: "I don't say everybody in Wilshberia writes the same." Bob today: "The problem is all the teams wear the same uniforms." Etc., etc. . . . . I said I would likely regret bringing up the absurdity of the "Wilshberia" label, since this kind of jabberwocky is what always results. Mea culpa. ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.me.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cervantes.james at gmail.com Tue Dec 14 21:25:41 2010 From: cervantes.james at gmail.com (James Cervantes) Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2010 19:25:41 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Last Wilshberia post for now In-Reply-To: <9CED1B64-6485-4644-BE55-075C8F91D17B@ripon.edu> References: <462722.44548.qm@web55207.mail.re4.yahoo.com> <4D07E8C7.9060803@nut-n-but.net> <9CED1B64-6485-4644-BE55-075C8F91D17B@ripon.edu> Message-ID: I always confuse the term with Wistful Vista or The Wilshire Plaza Hotel, though I guess there are valid associations. - Jim p.s. - Be careful to avoid confusing taxonomy with taxidermy. On Tue, Dec 14, 2010 at 6:18 PM, David Graham wrote: > Bob yesterday: "I don't say everybody in Wilshberia writes the same." > > Bob today: "The problem is all the teams wear the same uniforms." > > Etc., etc. . . . . I said I would likely regret bringing up the absurdity > of the "Wilshberia" label, since this kind of jabberwocky is what always > results. Mea culpa. > > ======================================== > David Graham > grahamd at ripon.edu > > Home Page: > http://web.me.com/drjazz > > Poetry Library: > http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html > ========================================== > > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning http://www.fieralingue.it/documenti/mr_bondo.pdf http://www.poetserv.org/jvc/home/index.html http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamescervantes/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Tue Dec 14 21:47:09 2010 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2010 21:47:09 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Last Wilshberia post for now In-Reply-To: <9CED1B64-6485-4644-BE55-075C8F91D17B@ripon.edu> References: <462722.44548.qm@web55207.mail.re4.yahoo.com><4D07E8C7.9060803@nut-n-but.net> <9CED1B64-6485-4644-BE55-075C8F91D17B@ripon.edu> Message-ID: <4D082C2D.2080801@nut-n-but.net> On 12/14/2010 8:18 PM, David Graham wrote: > Bob yesterday: "I don't say everybody in Wilshberia writes the same." > > Bob today: "The problem is all the teams wear the same uniforms." > And there's your main problem, David. You don't understand that each player is different although in a the same uniform as all the others. You don't understand that a group can be all the same in one major way although different in many minor ways. > Etc., etc. . . . . I said I would likely regret bringing up the > absurdity of the "Wilshberia" label, since this kind of jabberwocky is > what always results. Mea culpa. Now, now, stubborn narrowness of outlook is always worth defending. In fact, you should try to do it more--by countering my main arguments instead of trying for gotchas. But you're not up to that. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Rsgwynn1 at cs.com Tue Dec 14 22:09:39 2010 From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com (Rsgwynn1 at cs.com) Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2010 22:09:39 EST Subject: [New-Poetry] Last Wilshberia post for now Message-ID: <6c957.1bb15718.3a398b73@cs.com> In a message dated 12/14/2010 8:41:41 PM Central Standard Time, bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net writes: > And there's your main problem, David. You don't understand that each > player is different although in a the same uniform as all the others. You > don't understand that a group can be all the same in one major way although > different in many minor ways. How many sports pages cover the minor leagues? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jjeffreymail at yahoo.com Tue Dec 14 22:11:12 2010 From: jjeffreymail at yahoo.com (John Jeffrey) Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2010 19:11:12 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] Last Wilshberia post for now In-Reply-To: <9CED1B64-6485-4644-BE55-075C8F91D17B@ripon.edu> References: <462722.44548.qm@web55207.mail.re4.yahoo.com> <4D07E8C7.9060803@nut-n-but.net> <9CED1B64-6485-4644-BE55-075C8F91D17B@ripon.edu> Message-ID: <594011.47735.qm@web120510.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> David, to me, the jabberwocky is proof that the label is absurd. And in the end, the defense of it is always a weak lob: "Well then, you tell ME what it should be called." John J ________________________________ From: David Graham To: NewPoetry List Sent: Tue, December 14, 2010 8:18:48 PM Subject: [New-Poetry] Last Wilshberia post for now Bob yesterday: "I don't say everybody in Wilshberia writes the same." Bob today: "The problem is all the teams wear the same uniforms." Etc., etc. . . . . I said I would likely regret bringing up the absurdity of the "Wilshberia" label, since this kind of jabberwocky is what always results. Mea culpa. ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.me.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jjeffreymail at yahoo.com Tue Dec 14 22:11:12 2010 From: jjeffreymail at yahoo.com (John Jeffrey) Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2010 19:11:12 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] Last Wilshberia post for now In-Reply-To: <9CED1B64-6485-4644-BE55-075C8F91D17B@ripon.edu> References: <462722.44548.qm@web55207.mail.re4.yahoo.com> <4D07E8C7.9060803@nut-n-but.net> <9CED1B64-6485-4644-BE55-075C8F91D17B@ripon.edu> Message-ID: <594011.47735.qm@web120510.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> David, to me, the jabberwocky is proof that the label is absurd. And in the end, the defense of it is always a weak lob: "Well then, you tell ME what it should be called." John J ________________________________ From: David Graham To: NewPoetry List Sent: Tue, December 14, 2010 8:18:48 PM Subject: [New-Poetry] Last Wilshberia post for now Bob yesterday: "I don't say everybody in Wilshberia writes the same." Bob today: "The problem is all the teams wear the same uniforms." Etc., etc. . . . . I said I would likely regret bringing up the absurdity of the "Wilshberia" label, since this kind of jabberwocky is what always results. Mea culpa. ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.me.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From barry.spacks at verizon.net Tue Dec 14 22:23:26 2010 From: barry.spacks at verizon.net (Barry Spacks) Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2010 19:23:26 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] Peace in the Name-Calling Wars! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <479C3B21-4926-408B-B07C-A174F1DAFF56@verizon.net> On Dec 14, 2010, at 6:41 PM, Our Bob wrote: > it should be spelled "Wilshbobbia," shouldn't it? agreed, agreed! -- spelling cooperation across the aisle, positively a breakthrough, and then arrives filibuster-proof unity in the brilliant coinage "Silligrummania," bless you, Great Namer, you've left me giddy with glee. from the DMZ, Barry From c.a.b.daly at gmail.com Wed Dec 15 02:09:32 2010 From: c.a.b.daly at gmail.com (Catherine Daly) Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2010 23:09:32 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] Best poetry books of 2010 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: make for the trees? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Wed Dec 15 06:40:39 2010 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2010 06:40:39 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Last Wilshberia post for now In-Reply-To: <6c957.1bb15718.3a398b73@cs.com> References: <6c957.1bb15718.3a398b73@cs.com> Message-ID: <4D08A937.9010505@nut-n-but.net> On 12/14/2010 10:09 PM, Rsgwynn1 at cs.com wrote: > In a message dated 12/14/2010 8:41:41 PM Central Standard Time, > bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net writes: >> And there's your main problem, David. You don't understand that each >> player is different although in a the same uniform as all the >> others. You don't understand that a group can be all the same in one >> major way although different in many minor ways. > > How many sports pages cover the minor leagues? One in my local paper. But that's not the point. we all know that the only good poetry is Wilshberian poetry, because that's the only kind the great majority of academics teach, write criticism of, write themselves advise no-nothing grants-bestowers to reward, and put in anthologies published by reputable publishers. The point is giving the place a name, like "The Major Leagues." --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Wed Dec 15 06:45:01 2010 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2010 06:45:01 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Last Wilshberia post for now In-Reply-To: <594011.47735.qm@web120510.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <462722.44548.qm@web55207.mail.re4.yahoo.com><4D07E8C7.9060803@nut-n-but.net><9CED1B 64-6485-4644-BE55-075C8F91D17B@ripon.edu> <594011.47735.qm@web120510.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4D08AA3D.7050909@nut-n-but.net> On 12/14/2010 10:11 PM, John Jeffrey wrote: > David, to me, the jabberwocky is proof that the label is absurd. And > in the end, the defense of it is always a weak lob: "Well then, you > tell ME what it should be called." No, that's only one defense even though it always works. And the "tell me" is a colloquialism meaning "reveal to those interested," not "submit to me as judge." The main defense is that everyone knows pretty exactly what I mean by the term, as you yourself demonstrated. Status quo poetry (except that I feel that doesn't mean quite the same thing). -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Wed Dec 15 10:21:51 2010 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2010 10:21:51 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Cusack as Poe, and Hollywood does the poets Message-ID: <8CD6A82EEF61756-17EC-AA0B@webmail-d084.sysops.aol.com> http://www.firstshowing.net/2010/12/13/first-bw-look-john-cusack-as-edgar-allan-poe-in-the-raven/ Once upon a midnight dreary, while I pondered, weak and weary? I'm not sure how they got it, but The Huffington Post (via MTV) recently debuted the first photo (or this just a Photoshop?) of John Cusack as poet Edgar Allen Poe in James McTeigue's The Raven. The dark thriller has been shooting Europe for the last few months and is a period piece about the last five days before Poe's odd death, in which the poet is in pursuit of a serial killer whose murders mirror those in his stories. == Celebrity poets... http://www.thefrisky.com/post/246-10-celebs-who-played-poets/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Wed Dec 15 10:27:02 2010 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2010 10:27:02 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] In the suburbs of Wilshberia In-Reply-To: <4D07E87F.5070603@nut-n-but.net> References: <4D07E87F.5070603@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <8CD6A83A817E322-17EC-AB60@webmail-d084.sysops.aol.com> Dwell I but in the suburbs Of your good pleasure? If it be no more, VizPo is BGrutus' harlot, not his wife. -----Original Message----- From: Bob Grumman To: NewPoetry List Sent: Tue, Dec 14, 2010 4:58 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Naming with the Enemy > So I take up the challenge of seeking a substitute > for Wilshberia (sweet as it sounds) and propose > WilshBobia (which takes us further along the continuum of the years) > or the neat over-all structure: POEMS / ODDITIES. > > You're welcome, > > Barry > > Sounds to me like the poetry continuum from Wilbur to Bob, and it should be spelled "Wilshbobbia," shouldn't it? If you want to name the little group of villages outside Wilshberia, Barry, "Silligrummania" might be better--although I really don't think my name deserves to be in it. --Bob. > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Wed Dec 15 10:17:09 2010 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2010 10:17:09 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] In suburb of Wilshberia In-Reply-To: <4D07E87F.5070603@nut-n-but.net> References: <4089CAAF-87E4-4DCD-8AB0-C21863C40E10@verizon.net> <4D07E87F.5070603@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <8CD6A8246BBDD7E-17EC-A906@webmail-d084.sysops.aol.com> Dwell I but in the suburbs Of your good pleasure? If it be no more, VizPo is Bob's harlot, not his wife. -----Original Message----- From: Bob Grumman To: NewPoetry List Sent: Tue, Dec 14, 2010 4:58 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Naming with the Enemy > So I take up the challenge of seeking a substitute > for Wilshberia (sweet as it sounds) and propose > WilshBobia (which takes us further along the continuum of the years) > or the neat over-all structure: POEMS / ODDITIES. > > You're welcome, > > Barry > > Sounds to me like the poetry continuum from Wilbur to Bob, and it should be spelled "Wilshbobbia," shouldn't it? If you want to name the little group of villages outside Wilshberia, Barry, "Silligrummania" might be better--although I really don't think my name deserves to be in it. --Bob. > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jjeffreymail at yahoo.com Wed Dec 15 10:33:09 2010 From: jjeffreymail at yahoo.com (John Jeffrey) Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2010 07:33:09 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] Really this time: the last Wilshberia post for now In-Reply-To: <4D08AA3D.7050909@nut-n-but.net> References: <462722.44548.qm@web55207.mail.re4.yahoo.com><4D07E8C7.9060803@nut-n-but.net><9CED1B 64-6485-4644-BE55-075C8F91D17B@ripon.edu> <594011.47735.qm@web120510.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <4D08AA3D.7050909@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <809946.21041.qm@web120510.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> You misread my joke about the gated-community. It wasn't a knock on the Wishberians inside the walls; it was a knock on the mixed-media stuff trying to get in and call itself poetry proper. I'm not on the "make it new" bandwagon. Or, more precisely, I'm not on the "make it extremely effing new" bandwagon. I think poets can make "new" poetry with only subtle differences. Or just by doing something wonderful, even though they've used only the same old crap--like words. Besides, simply because a poet works in a style or form or with the tools that have been around for more than 20 years doesn't offhandedly dismiss the poet as anachronistic or a yawning copy. Cripes, we'd have to toss nearly every poet for the last 500 years into that bin. (In fact, maybe Wilshberia should be Shakesberia or even Chaucberia? More truthful about all that you're including in the implication.) Ultimately, limited as I'll be called when the names start flying, I just don't think that the occasional word or letter thrown into a painting or a print or a mathematical equation or onto a sculpture or against a wall or mixed in with my Cheerios or tattooed on an elephant's ass is poetry. There, I've said it. It's something, yes; it's mixed-media, obviously; and it can be interesting and beautiful and skillful and all other superlatives, but to my eyes, it's not "poetry." You're good at making up names, make up a new one. Just the opinions of a poor, limited, brainwashed, biased, uneducated, simple, drinker of the Kool-Aid. John J ________________________________ From: Bob Grumman To: NewPoetry List Sent: Wed, December 15, 2010 6:45:01 AM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Last Wilshberia post for now On 12/14/2010 10:11 PM, John Jeffrey wrote: David, to me, the jabberwocky is proof that the label is absurd. And in the end, the defense of it is always a weak lob: "Well then, you tell ME what it should be called." > No, that's only one defense even though it always works. And the "tell me" is a colloquialism meaning "reveal to those interested," not "submit to me as judge." The main defense is that everyone knows pretty exactly what I mean by the term, as you yourself demonstrated. Status quo poetry (except that I feel that doesn't mean quite the same thing). -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jjeffreymail at yahoo.com Wed Dec 15 10:42:23 2010 From: jjeffreymail at yahoo.com (John Jeffrey) Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2010 07:42:23 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] Cusack as Poe, and Hollywood does the poets In-Reply-To: <8CD6A82EEF61756-17EC-AA0B@webmail-d084.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CD6A82EEF61756-17EC-AA0B@webmail-d084.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <307125.73970.qm@web120507.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Just like Hollywood to cast the 6'3" Cusack to star as the 5'8", 140 pound Poe. Then again, consider this alternative: Stallone has long wanted to write and direct a Poe biopic--with himself as the star, no less. Lately, he's giving up on starring in it himself (he had Robert Downey lined up at one point), which is too bad. Wouldn't you just love to hear Rocky reading the Raven? ________________________________ From: "jforjames at aol.com" To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Wed, December 15, 2010 10:21:51 AM Subject: [New-Poetry] Cusack as Poe, and Hollywood does the poets http://www.firstshowing.net/2010/12/13/first-bw-look-john-cusack-as-edgar-allan-poe-in-the-raven/ Once upon a midnight dreary, while I pondered, weak and weary? I'm not sure how they got it, but The Huffington Post (via MTV) recently debuted the first photo (or this just a Photoshop?) of John Cusack as poet Edgar Allen Poe in James McTeigue's The Raven. The dark thriller has been shooting Europe for the last few months and is a period piece about the last five days before Poe's odd death, in which the poet is in pursuit of a serial killer whose murders mirror those in his stories. == Celebrity poets... http://www.thefrisky.com/post/246-10-celebs-who-played-poets/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From GrahamD at ripon.edu Wed Dec 15 10:49:18 2010 From: GrahamD at ripon.edu (Graham, David) Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2010 09:49:18 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Last Wilshberia post for now: I guess I lied In-Reply-To: <6c957.1bb15718.3a398b73@cs.com> References: <6c957.1bb15718.3a398b73@cs.com> Message-ID: Let's run a bit with the sports analogy. Wilshberia as Bob tends to define it would not just include the major & minor leagues of pro baseball, but every single college, high school, middle school, and community league. Plus sandlot games, softball at company picnics & family reunions. Fathers playing catch with kids in the back yard, too, of course. Oh, and naturally all games overseas, not to mention computer baseball games & fantasy leagues. What wouldn't the label encompass? Well, such things as two guys in Havre, Montana who like to kick a deer skull back & forth and call it "baseball." Sure, there's no bat, ball, gloves, diamond, fans, pitcher, or catcher-- but they do call it baseball, and wonder why the mainstream media consistently fails to mention their game. =================== David Graham Grahamd at ripon.edu Home page: http://web.me.com/drjazz ==================== On Dec 14, 2010, at 9:10 PM, "Rsgwynn1 at cs.com" wrote: > In a message dated 12/14/2010 8:41:41 PM Central Standard Time, bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net writes: >> And there's your main problem, David. You don't understand that each player is different although in a the same uniform as all the others. You don't understand that a group can be all the same in one major way although different in many minor ways. > > How many sports pages cover the minor leagues? > _____________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Rsgwynn1 at cs.com Wed Dec 15 10:53:07 2010 From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com (Rsgwynn1 at cs.com) Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2010 10:53:07 EST Subject: [New-Poetry] Cusack as Poe, and Hollywood does the poets Message-ID: <3a617.3b0bac6d.3a3a3e63@cs.com> In a message dated 12/15/2010 9:45:06 AM Central Standard Time, jjeffreymail at yahoo.com writes: > > > > > Just like Hollywood to cast the 6'3" Cusack to star as the 5'8", 140 pound > Poe. > > Then again, consider this alternative: Stallone has long wanted to write > and direct a Poe biopic--with himself as the star, no less. Lately, he's > giving up on starring in it himself (he had Robert Downey lined up at one > point), which is too bad. Wouldn't you just love to hear Rocky reading the > Raven? > > > I'm still holding out for Malkovich as Ezra Pound. What casting that would be! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Rsgwynn1 at cs.com Wed Dec 15 10:50:38 2010 From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com (Rsgwynn1 at cs.com) Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2010 10:50:38 EST Subject: [New-Poetry] Last Wilshberia post for now Message-ID: <3a271.2b42947e.3a3a3dce@cs.com> In a message dated 12/15/2010 8:40:51 AM Central Standard Time, bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net writes: > One in my local paper. But that's not the point. we all know that the > only good poetry is Wilshberian poetry, because that's the only kind the > great majority of academics teach, write criticism of, write themselves advise > no-nothing grants-bestowers to reward, and put in anthologies published by > reputable publishers. The point is giving the place a name, like "The > Major Leagues." > > --Bob Could it perhaps be that players in the minor leagues aren't as good as those in the majors? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From GrahamD at ripon.edu Wed Dec 15 11:02:22 2010 From: GrahamD at ripon.edu (Graham, David) Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2010 10:02:22 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Cusack as Poe, and Hollywood does the poets In-Reply-To: <3a617.3b0bac6d.3a3a3e63@cs.com> References: <3a617.3b0bac6d.3a3a3e63@cs.com> Message-ID: <68942F78-9D68-4E4B-9B30-F535DF679BD5@ripon.edu> Daniel Day Lewis could do Poe. I'd love to see Laura Linney as Plath, too. =================== David Graham Grahamd at ripon.edu Home page: http://web.me.com/drjazz ==================== On Dec 15, 2010, at 9:53 AM, "Rsgwynn1 at cs.com" wrote: >> > > I'm still holding out for Malkovich as Ezra Pound. What casting that would be! > _______________________________________________ > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From almaginnes at aol.com Wed Dec 15 11:05:18 2010 From: almaginnes at aol.com (almaginnes at aol.com) Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2010 11:05:18 -0500 (EST) Subject: [New-Poetry] Cusack as Poe, and Hollywood does the poets In-Reply-To: <68942F78-9D68-4E4B-9B30-F535DF679BD5@ripon.edu> References: <3a617.3b0bac6d.3a3a3e63@cs.com> <68942F78-9D68-4E4B-9B30-F535DF679BD5@ripon.edu> Message-ID: <8CD6A88FFB4B763-EAC-D987@webmail-m022.sysops.aol.com> Daneil Day Lewis seems a bit strapping for Poe, but Poe was something of an athlete as a young man. He set some swimming records at West Point that stood for a while. -----Original Message----- From: Graham, David To: NewPoetry List Sent: Wed, Dec 15, 2010 11:02 am Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Cusack as Poe, and Hollywood does the poets Daniel Day Lewis could do Poe. I'd love to see Laura Linney as Plath, too. =================== David Graham Grahamd at ripon.edu Home page: http://web.me.com/drjazz ==================== On Dec 15, 2010, at 9:53 AM, "Rsgwynn1 at cs.com" wrote: I'm still holding out for Malkovich as Ezra Pound. What casting that would be! _______________________________________________ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at gmail.com Wed Dec 15 11:16:57 2010 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2010 10:16:57 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Cusack as Poe, and Hollywood does the poets In-Reply-To: <8CD6A88FFB4B763-EAC-D987@webmail-m022.sysops.aol.com> References: <3a617.3b0bac6d.3a3a3e63@cs.com> <68942F78-9D68-4E4B-9B30-F535DF679BD5@ripon.edu> <8CD6A88FFB4B763-EAC-D987@webmail-m022.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: Or how about Mads Mikkelsen (6') playing Igor Stravinsky (5'3")? I spent the whole movie yearning for, say, Dustin Hoffman. The movie, btw, was *Coco Chanel and Igor* *Stravinsky*. Great costumes and 20s Parisian decor, but on the whole a lot of wind about nothing much. And who needs images of Igor schtupping Coco floating around in their memory bank? Oh, right, it was just a movie. Hal "A sudden silence in the middle of a conversation suddenly brings us back to essentials: it reveals how dearly we must pay for the invention of speech." --E. M. Cioran Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home *Mainly Black , **Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ;* *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; * ***Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; * ***G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; * *Transparencies & Projections * On Wed, Dec 15, 2010 at 10:05 AM, wrote: > Daneil Day Lewis seems a bit strapping for Poe, but Poe was something of > an athlete as a young man. He set some swimming records at West Point that > stood for a while. > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Graham, David > To: NewPoetry List > Sent: Wed, Dec 15, 2010 11:02 am > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Cusack as Poe, and Hollywood does the poets > > Daniel Day Lewis could do Poe. > > I'd love to see Laura Linney as Plath, too. > > =================== > David Graham > Grahamd at ripon.edu > > Home page: > http://web.me.com/drjazz > ==================== > > On Dec 15, 2010, at 9:53 AM, "Rsgwynn1 at cs.com" wrote: > > > > I'm still holding out for Malkovich as Ezra Pound. What casting that would > be! > > _______________________________________________ > > _______________________________________________ > > > New-Poetry mailing list > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From junction at earthlink.net Wed Dec 15 11:20:08 2010 From: junction at earthlink.net (Mark Weiss) Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2010 11:20:08 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Cusack as Poe, and Hollywood does the poets In-Reply-To: <307125.73970.qm@web120507.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <8CD6A82EEF61756-17EC-AA0B@webmail-d084.sysops.aol.com> <307125.73970.qm@web120507.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Not so odd. 5'8" was unusually tall in those days. How do we know what Poe weighed? Did he have a bathroom scale and record the results? I hope Cusack gives him a Baltimore accent. At 10:42 AM 12/15/2010, you wrote: >Just like Hollywood to cast the 6'3" Cusack to >star as the 5'8", 140 pound Poe. > >Then again, consider this alternative: Stallone >has long wanted to write and direct a Poe >biopic--with himself as the star, no >less. Lately, he's giving up on starring in it >himself (he had Robert Downey lined up at one >point), which is too bad. Wouldn't you just >love to hear Rocky reading the Raven? > > > >From: "jforjames at aol.com" >To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >Sent: Wed, December 15, 2010 10:21:51 AM >Subject: [New-Poetry] Cusack as Poe, and Hollywood does the poets > >http://www.firstshowing.net/2010/12/13/first-bw-look-john-cusack-as-edgar-allan-poe-in-the-raven/ > >Once upon a midnight dreary, while I pondered, >weak and weary I'm not sure how they got it, >but The Huffington Post (vvia MTV) recently >debuted the first photo (or this just a >Photoshop?) of John Cusack as poet Edgar Allen >Poe in James McTeigue's The Raven. The dark >thriller has been shooting Europe for the last >few months and is a period piece about the last >five days before Poe's odd death, in which the >poet is in pursuit of a serial killer whose >murders mirror those in his stories. > >== >Celebrity poets... >http://www.thefrisky.com/post/246-10-celebs-who-played-poets/ > >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry New from Chax Press: Mark Weiss, As Landscape. $16. Order from http://www.chax.org/poets/weiss.htm "What a beautiful set of circumstances! What a lovely concatenation of particulars. Here is the poet alive in every sense of the word, and through every one of his senses. Instead of missing a beat or a part, Weiss? fragments are like Chekhov?s short stories?the more that gets left out, the more they seem to contain One can hear echoes from all the various ancestors...[but] the voice, at its center, its core, is pure Mark Weiss. His use of the fragment is both elegant and bafflingly clear, a pure musical threnody [it] opens a window, not only into a mind, but a person, a personality, this human figure at the emotional center of the poem." M.G. Stephens, in Jacket. http://jacketmagazine.com/40/r-weiss-rb-stephens.shtml -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chris at chrislott.org Wed Dec 15 11:49:43 2010 From: chris at chrislott.org (Chris Lott) Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2010 07:49:43 -0900 Subject: [New-Poetry] Cusack as Poe, and Hollywood does the poets In-Reply-To: <307125.73970.qm@web120507.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <8CD6A82EEF61756-17EC-AA0B@webmail-d084.sysops.aol.com> <307125.73970.qm@web120507.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I had no idea Cusack was so tall. Thanks for ruining the movie for me :) yo, raven... c On Wed, Dec 15, 2010 at 6:42 AM, John Jeffrey wrote: > Just like Hollywood to cast the 6'3" Cusack to star as the 5'8", 140 pound > Poe. > > Then again, consider this alternative:? Stallone has long wanted to write > and direct a Poe biopic--with himself as the star, no less.? Lately, he's > giving up on starring in it himself (he had Robert Downey lined up at one > point), which is too bad.? Wouldn't you just love to hear Rocky reading the > Raven? > > > ________________________________ > From: "jforjames at aol.com" > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Sent: Wed, December 15, 2010 10:21:51 AM > Subject: [New-Poetry] Cusack as Poe, and Hollywood does the poets > > http://www.firstshowing.net/2010/12/13/first-bw-look-john-cusack-as-edgar-allan-poe-in-the-raven/ > > Once upon a midnight dreary, while I pondered, weak and weary? I'm not sure > how they got it, but The Huffington Post (via MTV) recently debuted the > first photo (or this just a Photoshop?) of John Cusack as? poet Edgar Allen > Poe in James McTeigue's The Raven. The dark thriller has been shooting > Europe for the last few months and is a period piece about the last five > days before Poe's odd death, in which the poet is in pursuit of a serial > killer whose murders mirror those in his stories. > > == > Celebrity poets... > http://www.thefrisky.com/post/246-10-celebs-who-played-poets/ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > From jjeffreymail at yahoo.com Wed Dec 15 12:21:28 2010 From: jjeffreymail at yahoo.com (John Jeffrey) Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2010 09:21:28 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] Cusack as Poe, and Hollywood does the poets In-Reply-To: References: <8CD6A82EEF61756-17EC-AA0B@webmail-d084.sysops.aol.com> <307125.73970.qm@web120507.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <974981.62644.qm@web120512.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Actually, 5'8" was about average height for a male around 1850. Most descriptions of Poe in letters or writings described him as being average or slightly below average height. His weight was recorded by his doctor when he was sent to the hospital. ________________________________ From: Mark Weiss To: NewPoetry List Sent: Wed, December 15, 2010 11:20:08 AM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Cusack as Poe, and Hollywood does the poets Not so odd. 5'8" was unusually tall in those days. How do we know what Poe weighed? Did he have a bathroom scale and record the results? I hope Cusack gives him a Baltimore accent. At 10:42 AM 12/15/2010, you wrote: Just like Hollywood to cast the 6'3" Cusack to star as the 5'8", 140 pound Poe. > >Then again, consider this alternative: Stallone has long wanted to write and >direct a Poe biopic--with himself as the star, no less. Lately, he's giving up >on starring in it himself (he had Robert Downey lined up at one point), which is >too bad. Wouldn't you just love to hear Rocky reading the Raven? > > > >From: "jforjames at aol.com" >To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >Sent: Wed, December 15, 2010 10:21:51 AM >Subject: [New-Poetry] Cusack as Poe, and Hollywood does the poets > >http://www.firstshowing.net/2010/12/13/first-bw-look-john-cusack-as-edgar-allan-poe-in-the-raven/ > > >Once upon a midnight dreary, while I pondered, weak and weary? I'm not sure how >they got it, but The Huffington Post (vvia MTV) recently debuted the first photo >(or this just a Photoshop?) of John Cusack as poet Edgar Allen Poe in James >McTeigue's The Raven. The dark thriller has been shooting Europe for the last >few months and is a period piece about the last five days before Poe's odd >death, in which the poet is in pursuit of a serial killer whose murders mirror >those in his stories. > >== >Celebrity poets... >http://www.thefrisky.com/post/246-10-celebs-who-played-poets/ > >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry New from Chax Press: Mark Weiss, As Landscape. $16. Order from http://www.chax.org/poets/weiss.htm "What a beautiful set of circumstances! What a lovely concatenation of particulars. Here is the poet alive in every sense of the word, and through every one of his senses. Instead of missing a beat or a part, Weiss? fragments are like Chekhov?s short stories?the more that gets left out, the more they seem to contain? One can hear echoes from all the various ancestors...[but] the voice, at its center, its core, is pure Mark Weiss. His use of the fragment is both elegant and bafflingly clear, a pure musical threnody?[it] opens a window, not only into a mind, but a person, a personality, this human figure at the emotional center of the poem." M.G. Stephens, in Jacket. http://jacketmagazine.com/40/r-weiss-rb-stephens.shtml -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Wed Dec 15 12:58:01 2010 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2010 12:58:01 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Last Wilshberia post for now: I guess I lied In-Reply-To: References: <6c957.1bb15718.3a398b73@cs.com> Message-ID: <4D0901A9.3010806@nut-n-but.net> On 12/15/2010 10:49 AM, Graham, David wrote: > Let's run a bit with the sports analogy. Wilshberia as Bob tends to > define it would not just include the major & minor leagues of pro > baseball, but every single college, high school, middle school, and > community league. Plus sandlot games, softball at company picnics & > family reunions. Fathers playing catch with kids in the back yard, > too, of course. Oh, and naturally all games overseas, not to mention > computer baseball games & fantasy leagues. > > What wouldn't the label encompass? > > Well, such things as two guys in Havre, Montana who like to kick a > deer skull back & forth and call it "baseball." Sure, there's no bat, > ball, gloves, diamond, fans, pitcher, or catcher-- but they do call it > baseball, and wonder why the mainstream media consistently fails to > mention their game. > Our minds seem to be running in parallel, David. I was just thinking that the reason no academics have or can come up with a term for Wilshberia is that they think it the whole of poetry, so not needing a name. In other words, for them the range of poetry from Wilbur's to Ashbery's is the complete range of poetry. And people like me, who compose things we think are poems but which are considerably different from anything Wilshberian poets are composing should not mind being considered no more poets than "two guys in Havre, Montana who like to kick a deer skull back & forth" are baseball players, should not complain. --Bob From amyhappens at yahoo.com Wed Dec 15 12:58:45 2010 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king) Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2010 09:58:45 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] Best poetry books of 2010 In-Reply-To: References: <958494.11506.qm@web35508.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <653488.87745.qm@web83301.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Thanks for the shout out, Carol! In great company, no less. I'm in the throes of the semester's end and can barely keep up with these Wilshbarium enema discussions! Not so incidentally since we're offering shout outs, I have been sneaking quick peeks at Dean Young's latest, "The Art of Recklessness: Poetry as Assertive Force and Contradiction," in btwn essay and portfolio grading -- and can only say at this point, DAMN FINE BOOK -- http://www.amazon.com/Art-Recklessness-Poetry-Assertive-Contradiction/dp/1555975623/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1292435313&sr=8-1 Even more not so incidentally, it'd be a shame not to help him with his heart: http://www.transplants.org/donate/deanyoung ********* VIDA: Women in Literary Arts + Interviews Amy's Alias + http://amyking.org/ ******** ________________________________ From: carol dorf To: NewPoetry List Sent: Mon, December 13, 2010 9:46:37 PM Subject: [New-Poetry] Best poetry books of 2010 Why doesn't everyone send out their own list -- it would be good reading for the rest of us. Personally, I don't seem to be able to get a comprehensive list of readings done, but I've liked the new books by Camille Martin, Amy King, Leslie Wheeler, Lisa Robertson and Charles Simic this year. So top ten, who knows, but they were worth reading. Carol poetry at talkingwriting.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From junction at earthlink.net Wed Dec 15 13:00:13 2010 From: junction at earthlink.net (Mark Weiss) Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2010 13:00:13 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Cusack as Poe, and Hollywood does the poets In-Reply-To: <974981.62644.qm@web120512.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <8CD6A82EEF61756-17EC-AA0B@webmail-d084.sysops.aol.com> <307125.73970.qm@web120507.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <974981.62644.qm@web120512.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I mstand corrected (in my bare feet). Makes no difference in the portrayal, I should think. The first film of Hamlet (1900, if I rmemeber correctly) starred Sarah Bernhardt as the prince. Actors overcome all sorts of obstacles. In the 1920 Danish version the fact that the prince is a woman i disguise is part of the plot. When she's injured in the duel Horatio opens her tunic and discovers a breast, and addresses the camera, cut to title: "No wonder I was always secretly attracted to him!" The actress, Asta Nielsen, got great reviews. The issue is more whatever disjunct there is with our historical memory/imagination. I don't think Poe's height plays much part in that, but Hollywood tends not to worry too much about that. Favorite moments: the douglas firs in Drums Along the Mohawk, the enormous waterfall and cliff in Last of the Mohicans, the reaction shot in Thelma and Louise that's 200 miles away from the shot that precedes it. Not to mention that the entire American West tends to look either like the Arizona desert or the Sierra foothills. It's only make believe. Best, Mark At 12:21 PM 12/15/2010, you wrote: >Actually, 5'8" was about average height for a >male around 1850. Most descriptions of Poe in >letters or writings described him as being >average or slightly below average height. His >weight was recorded by his doctor when he was sent to the hospital. > > >From: Mark Weiss >To: NewPoetry List >Sent: Wed, December 15, 2010 11:20:08 AM >Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Cusack as Poe, and Hollywood does the poets > >Not so odd. 5'8" was unusually tall in those days. > >How do we know what Poe weighed? Did he have a >bathroom scale and record the results? > >I hope Cusack gives him a Baltimore accent. > >At 10:42 AM 12/15/2010, you wrote: >>Just like Hollywood to cast the 6'3" Cusack to >>star as the 5'8", 140 pound Poe. >> >>Then again, consider this >>alternative: Stallone has long wanted to write >>and direct a Poe biopic--with himself as the >>star, no less. Lately, he's giving up on >>starring in it himself (he had Robert Downey >>lined up at one point), which is too >>bad. Wouldn't you just love to hear Rocky reading the Raven? >> >> >> >>From: "jforjames at aol.com" >>To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>Sent: Wed, December 15, 2010 10:21:51 AM >>Subject: [New-Poetry] Cusack as Poe, and Hollywood does the poets >> >>http://www.firstshowing.net/2010/12/13/first-bw-look-john-cusack-as-edgar-allan-poe-in-the-raven/ >> >> >>Once upon a midnight dreary, while I pondered, >>weak and weary I'm not sure how they got it, >>but The Huffington Post (vvia MMTV) recently >>debuted the first photo (or this just a >>Photoshop?) of John Cusack as poet Edgar Allen >>Poe in James McTeigue's The Raven. The dark >>thriller has been shooting Europe for the last >>few months and is a period piece about the last >>five days before Poe's odd death, in which the >>poet is in pursuit of a serial killer whose >>murders mirror those in his stories. >> >>== >>Celebrity poets... >>http://www.thefrisky.com/post/246-10-celebs-who-played-poets/ >> >>_______________________________________________ >>New-Poetry mailing list >>New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > >New from Chax Press: Mark Weiss, As Landscape. >$16. Order from >http://www.chax.org/poets/weiss.htm > > >"What a beautiful set of circumstances! What a >lovely concatenation of particulars. Here is the >poet alive in every sense of the word, and >through every one of his senses. Instead of >missing a beat or a part, Weiss??? fragments are >like Chekhov???s short stories??the more that >gets left out, the more they seem to contain >One can hear echoes from all the vaarious >ancestors...[but] the voice, at its center, its >core, is pure Mark Weiss. His use of the >fragment is both elegant and bafflingly clear, a >pure musical threnody [it] opens a window, not >only into a mind, but a person, a personality, >this human figure at the emotional center of the poem." > >M.G. Stephens, in Jacket. >http://jacketmagazine.com/40/r-weiss-rb-stephens.shtml > >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry New from Chax Press: Mark Weiss, As Landscape. $16. Order from http://www.chax.org/poets/weiss.htm "What a beautiful set of circumstances! What a lovely concatenation of particulars. Here is the poet alive in every sense of the word, and through every one of his senses. Instead of missing a beat or a part, Weiss? fragments are like Chekhov?s short stories?the more that gets left out, the more they seem to contain One can hear echoes from all the various ancestors...[but] the voice, at its center, its core, is pure Mark Weiss. His use of the fragment is both elegant and bafflingly clear, a pure musical threnody [it] opens a window, not only into a mind, but a person, a personality, this human figure at the emotional center of the poem." M.G. Stephens, in Jacket. http://jacketmagazine.com/40/r-weiss-rb-stephens.shtml -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Wed Dec 15 13:18:56 2010 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2010 13:18:56 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Really this time: the last Wilshberia post for now In-Reply-To: <809946.21041.qm@web120510.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <462722.44548.qm@web55207.mail.re4.yahoo.com><4D07E8C7.9060803@nut-n-but.net><9CED1B 64-6485-4644-BE55-075C8F91D17B@ripon.edu><594011.47735.qm@web120510.mail.ne1.yahoo.com><4D08AA3D.7050909@nut-n-but.net> <809946.21041.qm@web120510.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4D090690.9020205@nut-n-but.net> > You misread my joke about the gated-community. It wasn't a knock on > the Wishberians inside the walls; it was a knock on the mixed-media > stuff trying to get in and call itself poetry proper. Right. And I went along with it sarcastically. > I'm not on the "make it new" bandwagon. Or, more precisely, I'm not > on the "make it extremely effing new" bandwagon. I think poets can > make "new" poetry with only subtle differences. Or just by doing > something wonderful, even though they've used only the same old > crap--like words. Besides, simply because a poet works in a style or > form or with the tools that have been around for more than 20 years > doesn't offhandedly dismiss the poet as anachronistic or a yawning > copy. Cripes, we'd have to toss nearly every poet for the last 500 > years into that bin. (In fact, maybe Wilshberia should be Shakesberia > or even Chaucberia? More truthful about all that you're including in > the implication.) It's intended to be an ad hoc term about contemporary poetry. The poetry coming out of it of course derives from earlier poetry. But if academics ever made a study of the full continuum of current poetry, they would find out that non-Wilshberian poetry also derives from earlier poetry, some of it directly and some via from some Wilshberian poetry > > Ultimately, limited as I'll be called when the names start flying, I > just don't think that the occasional word or letter thrown into a > painting or a print or a mathematical equation or onto a sculpture or > against a wall or mixed in with my Cheerios or tattooed on an > elephant's ass is poetry. There, I've said it. It's something, yes; > it's mixed-media, obviously; and it can be interesting and beautiful > and skillful and all other superlatives, but to my eyes, it's not > "poetry." You're good at making up names, make up a new one. Your description of what I call visual poetry.is inaccurate. It's interesting, though, because it suggests that many words are necessary, not just "the occasional word or letter" for a poem. Hence, you are also rejecting minimalist poetry. I'm about to self-publish a booklet concerning my taxonomy of poetry. Time and financial considerations will prevent it from being much more thorough, and from having the examples it ought to have. But it should be a good introduction to my way of classifying poetry. (Wilshberia is not in it.) The problem with putting visual poetry and other mixed media in a class separate from literature, visual art and music is that it multiplies categories to little useful end, as far as I can see. Genuine visual poetry can be as verbally interesting as the best linguexpressive poetry, as I call poetry that is entirely verbal. Another reason for calling it a kind of literary work. --Bob > > Just the opinions of a poor, limited, brainwashed, biased, uneducated, > simple, drinker of the Kool-Aid. > > John J > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > *From:* Bob Grumman > *To:* NewPoetry List > *Sent:* Wed, December 15, 2010 6:45:01 AM > *Subject:* Re: [New-Poetry] Last Wilshberia post for now > > On 12/14/2010 10:11 PM, John Jeffrey wrote: >> David, to me, the jabberwocky is proof that the label is absurd. And >> in the end, the defense of it is always a weak lob: "Well then, you >> tell ME what it should be called." > No, that's only one defense even though it always works. And the > "tell me" is a colloquialism meaning "reveal to those interested," not > "submit to me as judge." The main defense is that everyone knows > pretty exactly what I mean by the term, as you yourself demonstrated. > Status quo poetry (except that I feel that doesn't mean quite the same > thing). > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Wed Dec 15 13:25:14 2010 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2010 13:25:14 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Last Wilshberia post for now In-Reply-To: <3a271.2b42947e.3a3a3dce@cs.com> References: <3a271.2b42947e.3a3a3dce@cs.com> Message-ID: <4D09080A.10506@nut-n-but.net> On 12/15/2010 10:50 AM, Rsgwynn1 at cs.com wrote: > In a message dated 12/15/2010 8:40:51 AM Central Standard Time, > bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net writes: >> One in my local paper. But that's not the point. we all know that >> the only good poetry is Wilshberian poetry, because that's the only >> kind the great majority of academics teach, write criticism of, write >> themselves advise no-nothing grants-bestowers to reward, and put in >> anthologies published by reputable publishers. The point is giving >> the place a name, like "The Major Leagues." >> >> --Bob > > Could it perhaps be that players in the minor leagues aren't as good > as those in the majors? Who knows? The baseball establishment is very knowledgeable about their minor leagues whereas the poetry establishment is near-totally ignorant about theirs. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Wed Dec 15 13:47:29 2010 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2010 10:47:29 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] Wilshberia In-Reply-To: <4D079E2B.7070904@nut-n-but.net> References: <276833.31241.qm@web120515.mail.ne1.yahoo.com><4D07930C.60800@nut-n-but.net> <4D079E2B.7070904@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <756102.1547.qm@web55202.mail.re4.yahoo.com> better if Vendler had the opportunity to drink with the Buk. i heard Vendler speak at the National Gallery in D.C. once. Once, as (they) say, was enough ... ________________________________ From: Bob Grumman To: NewPoetry List Sent: Tue, December 14, 2010 11:41:15 AM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Wilshberia On 12/14/2010 10:53 AM, David Graham wrote: > Yeah, if only The New Yorker would print more Bukowski and Helen Vendler would >review his work, then he'd finally sell some books. . . . Oops, you're right. Bukowski proves that one poet in a million can make money as a poet without being a Wilshberian, so the trivial fact that 99% of the poets in this country making money as poets (mainly through grants) are Wilshberians should not be taken to mean that Wilshberia is some kind of gated community. --Bob _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cervantes.james at gmail.com Wed Dec 15 13:55:07 2010 From: cervantes.james at gmail.com (James Cervantes) Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2010 11:55:07 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Last Wilshberia post for now: I guess I lied In-Reply-To: <4D0901A9.3010806@nut-n-but.net> References: <6c957.1bb15718.3a398b73@cs.com> <4D0901A9.3010806@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: What's wrong with being a multimedia artist? - Jim On Wed, Dec 15, 2010 at 10:58 AM, Bob Grumman wrote: > On 12/15/2010 10:49 AM, Graham, David wrote: > >> Let's run a bit with the sports analogy. Wilshberia as Bob tends to define >> it would not just include the major & minor leagues of pro baseball, but >> every single college, high school, middle school, and community league. Plus >> sandlot games, softball at company picnics & family reunions. Fathers >> playing catch with kids in the back yard, too, of course. Oh, and naturally >> all games overseas, not to mention computer baseball games & fantasy >> leagues. >> >> What wouldn't the label encompass? >> >> Well, such things as two guys in Havre, Montana who like to kick a deer >> skull back & forth and call it "baseball." Sure, there's no bat, ball, >> gloves, diamond, fans, pitcher, or catcher-- but they do call it baseball, >> and wonder why the mainstream media consistently fails to mention their >> game. >> >> Our minds seem to be running in parallel, David. I was just thinking > that the reason no academics have or can come up with a term for Wilshberia > is that they think it the whole of poetry, so not needing a name. In other > words, for them the range of poetry from Wilbur's to Ashbery's is the > complete range of poetry. And people like me, who compose things we think > are poems but which are considerably different from anything Wilshberian > poets are composing should not mind being considered no more poets than "two > guys in Havre, Montana who like to kick a deer skull back & forth" are > baseball players, should not complain. > > --Bob > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning http://www.fieralingue.it/documenti/mr_bondo.pdf http://www.poetserv.org/jvc/home/index.html http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamescervantes/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jjeffreymail at yahoo.com Wed Dec 15 14:19:31 2010 From: jjeffreymail at yahoo.com (John Jeffrey) Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2010 11:19:31 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] Cusack as Poe, and Hollywood does the poets In-Reply-To: References: <8CD6A82EEF61756-17EC-AA0B@webmail-d084.sysops.aol.com> <307125.73970.qm@web120507.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <974981.62644.qm@web120512.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <695430.28551.qm@web120517.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> You're right, of course: I doesn't really matter. I just find it funny sometimes how Hollywood will use the draw of a famous (or infamous) name or event ("based on actual events"), but they don't feel the need to actually abide by those names or events. Still, I have to say that it would be interesting to see a woman portray Poe. I think Helena Bonham Carter might have the best forehead for the part. John J ________________________________ From: Mark Weiss To: NewPoetry List Sent: Wed, December 15, 2010 1:00:13 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Cusack as Poe, and Hollywood does the poets I mstand corrected (in my bare feet). Makes no difference in the portrayal, I should think. The first film of Hamlet (1900, if I rmemeber correctly) starred Sarah Bernhardt as the prince. Actors overcome all sorts of obstacles. In the 1920 Danish version the fact that the prince is a woman i disguise is part of the plot. When she's injured in the duel Horatio opens her tunic and discovers a breast, and addresses the camera, cut to title: "No wonder I was always secretly attracted to him!" The actress, Asta Nielsen, got great reviews. The issue is more whatever disjunct there is with our historical memory/imagination. I don't think Poe's height plays much part in that, but Hollywood tends not to worry too much about that. Favorite moments: the douglas firs in Drums Along the Mohawk, the enormous waterfall and cliff in Last of the Mohicans, the reaction shot in Thelma and Louise that's 200 miles away from the shot that precedes it. Not to mention that the entire American West tends to look either like the Arizona desert or the Sierra foothills. It's only make believe. Best, Mark At 12:21 PM 12/15/2010, you wrote: Actually, 5'8" was about average height for a male around 1850. Most descriptions of Poe in letters or writings described him as being average or slightly below average height. His weight was recorded by his doctor when he was sent to the hospital. > > >From: Mark Weiss >To: NewPoetry List >Sent: Wed, December 15, 2010 11:20:08 AM >Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Cusack as Poe, and Hollywood does the poets > >Not so odd. 5'8" was unusually tall in those days. > >How do we know what Poe weighed? Did he have a bathroom scale and record the >results? > >I hope Cusack gives him a Baltimore accent. > >At 10:42 AM 12/15/2010, you wrote: > >Just like Hollywood to cast the 6'3" Cusack to star as the 5'8", 140 pound Poe. >> >>Then again, consider this alternative: Stallone has long wanted to write and >>direct a Poe biopic--with himself as the star, no less. Lately, he's giving up >>on starring in it himself (he had Robert Downey lined up at one point), which is >>too bad. Wouldn't you just love to hear Rocky reading the Raven? >> >> >> >>From: "jforjames at aol.com" >>To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>Sent: Wed, December 15, 2010 10:21:51 AM >>Subject: [New-Poetry] Cusack as Poe, and Hollywood does the poets >> >>http://www.firstshowing.net/2010/12/13/first-bw-look-john-cusack-as-edgar-allan-poe-in-the-raven/ >> >> >>Once upon a midnight dreary, while I pondered, weak and weary? I'm not sure how >>they got it, but The Huffington Post (vvia MMTV) recently debuted the first >>photo (or this just a Photoshop?) of John Cusack as poet Edgar Allen Poe in >>James McTeigue's The Raven. The dark thriller has been shooting Europe for the >>last few months and is a period piece about the last five days before Poe's odd >>death, in which the poet is in pursuit of a serial killer whose murders mirror >>those in his stories. >> >>== >>Celebrity poets... >>http://www.thefrisky.com/post/246-10-celebs-who-played-poets/ >> >>_______________________________________________ >>New-Poetry mailing list >>New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry New from Chax Press: Mark Weiss, As Landscape. $16. Order from http://www.chax.org/poets/weiss.htm "What a beautiful set of circumstances! What a lovely concatenation of particulars. Here is the poet alive in every sense of the word, and through every one of his senses. Instead of missing a beat or a part, Weiss??? fragments are like Chekhov???s short stories??the more that gets left out, the more they seem to contain? One can hear echoes from all the vaarious ancestors...[but] the voice, at its center, its core, is pure Mark Weiss. His use of the fragment is both elegant and bafflingly clear, a pure musical threnody?[it] opens a window, not only into a mind, but a person, a personality, this human figure at the emotional center of the poem." M.G. Stephens, in Jacket. http://jacketmagazine.com/40/r-weiss-rb-stephens.shtml _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry New from Chax Press: Mark Weiss, As Landscape. $16. Order from http://www.chax.org/poets/weiss.htm "What a beautiful set of circumstances! What a lovely concatenation of particulars. Here is the poet alive in every sense of the word, and through every one of his senses. Instead of missing a beat or a part, Weiss? fragments are like Chekhov?s short stories?the more that gets left out, the more they seem to contain? One can hear echoes from all the various ancestors...[but] the voice, at its center, its core, is pure Mark Weiss. His use of the fragment is both elegant and bafflingly clear, a pure musical threnody?[it] opens a window, not only into a mind, but a person, a personality, this human figure at the emotional center of the poem." M.G. Stephens, in Jacket. http://jacketmagazine.com/40/r-weiss-rb-stephens.shtml -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Wed Dec 15 14:46:13 2010 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2010 14:46:13 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] taxonomy's limits: mouse mouth poetry? Message-ID: <8CD6AA7DD195503-176C-F2E0@Webmail-m110.sysops.aol.com> http://movies.nytimes.com/2010/12/15/movies/15iamsecret.html Known as Jesse Bernstein, the film?s subject was a vivid presence in Seattle?s underground scene through the 1970s and ?80s. Cited as the ?godfather of grunge,? he opened concerts for Nirvana and Soundgarden and recorded albums of songs and poetry for Sub Pop Records, though the film is light on evidence that he was anything more than a mascot for grunge bands. His own work, seen and heard throughout the film, is from another time and place, evoking Allen Ginsberg, Tom Waits and, in its calmer moments, Spalding Gray. Although none of them, presumably, performed with live mice in their mouths, as Mr. Bernstein is seen doing in the film. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jeff.newberry at gmail.com Wed Dec 15 14:39:02 2010 From: jeff.newberry at gmail.com (Jeff Newberry) Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2010 14:39:02 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Hollywood does the poets Message-ID: Jim's post got me to thinking: what is your favorite portrayal of a poet on the big screen. I actually liked DiCaprio as Rimbaud in *Total Eclipse*. I didn't see *Sylvia*, but someone told me that Paltrow did a good job with the role. --Jeff Newberry On Wed, Dec 15, 2010 at 10:21 AM, wrote: > > http://www.firstshowing.net/2010/12/13/first-bw-look-john-cusack-as-edgar-allan-poe-in-the-raven/ > > Once upon a midnight dreary, while I pondered, weak and weary? I'm not sure > how they got it, but The Huffington Post (via MTV) recently debuted the > first photo (or this just a Photoshop?) of John Cusack as poet Edgar Allen > Poe in James McTeigue's The Raven. The dark thriller has been shooting > Europe for the last few months and is a period piece about the last five > days before Poe's odd death, in which the poet is in pursuit of a serial > killer whose murders mirror those in his stories. > > == > Celebrity poets... > http://www.thefrisky.com/post/246-10-celebs-who-played-poets/ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- You cannot tell people what to do, you can only tell them parables; and that is what art really is, particular stories of particular people and experience, from which each according to his own immediate and peculiar needs may draw his own conclusion. --W.H. Auden -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From junction at earthlink.net Wed Dec 15 15:27:29 2010 From: junction at earthlink.net (Mark Weiss) Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2010 15:27:29 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Cusack as Poe, and Hollywood does the poets In-Reply-To: <695430.28551.qm@web120517.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <8CD6A82EEF61756-17EC-AA0B@webmail-d084.sysops.aol.com> <307125.73970.qm@web120507.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <974981.62644.qm@web120512.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <695430.28551.qm@web120517.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: But who would have the best moustache? I doubt that the film has much to do with Poe, except as a brand name and an excuse for another costume crime drama. Casting to body type is usually pretty limited (except that for most roles it helps ticket sales if the person looks good on a poster). Most actors (there are obvious exceptions) are of medium height or less and stand on a box if the person their playing opposite is considerably taller. We don't experience them as medium to short unless the director wants us to. Alan Ladd was very short, but he played tough guys. Veronica Lake, who was less than 5 feet tall, owed much of her career to his height. But it would have been inconceivable to cast Ladd as Abraham Lincoln, whose height is a part of national memory. Mark At 02:19 PM 12/15/2010, you wrote: >You're right, of course: I doesn't really >matter. I just find it funny sometimes how >Hollywood will use the draw of a famous (or >infamous) name or event ("based on actual >events"), but they don't feel the need to >actually abide by those names or events. Still, >I have to say that it would be interesting to >see a woman portray Poe. I think Helena Bonham >Carter might have the best forehead for the part. > >John J > > > >From: Mark Weiss >To: NewPoetry List >Sent: Wed, December 15, 2010 1:00:13 PM >Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Cusack as Poe, and Hollywood does the poets > >I mstand corrected (in my bare feet). > >Makes no difference in the portrayal, I should think. > >The first film of Hamlet (1900, if I rmemeber >correctly) starred Sarah Bernhardt as the >prince. Actors overcome all sorts of obstacles. >In the 1920 Danish version the fact that the >prince is a woman i disguise is part of the >plot. When she's injured in the duel Horatio >opens her tunic and discovers a breast, and >addresses the camera, cut to title: "No wonder I >was always secretly attracted to him!" The >actress, Asta Nielsen, got great reviews. > >The issue is more whatever disjunct there is >with our historical memory/imagination. I don't >think Poe's height plays much part in that, but >Hollywood tends not to worry too much about >that. Favorite moments: the douglas firs in >Drums Along the Mohawk, the enormous waterfall >and cliff in Last of the Mohicans, the reaction >shot in Thelma and Louise that's 200 miles away >from the shot that precedes it. Not to mention >that the entire American West tends to look >either like the Arizona desert or the Sierra foothills. > >It's only make believe. > >Best, > >Mark > >At 12:21 PM 12/15/2010, you wrote: >>Actually, 5'8" was about average height for a >>male around 1850. Most descriptions of Poe in >>letters or writings described him as being >>average or slightly below average height. His >>weight was recorded by his doctor when he was sent to the hospital. >> >> >>From: Mark Weiss >>To: NewPoetry List >>Sent: Wed, December 15, 2010 11:20:08 AM >>Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Cusack as Poe, and Hollywood does the poets >> >>Not so odd. 5'8" was unusually tall in those days. >> >>How do we know what Poe weighed? Did he have a >>bathroom scale and record the results? >> >>I hope Cusack gives him a Baltimore accent. >> >>At 10:42 AM 12/15/2010, you wrote: >>>Just like Hollywood to cast the 6'3" Cusack to >>>star as the 5'8", 140 pound Poe. >>> >>>Then again, consider this >>>alternative: Stallone has long wanted to >>>write and direct a Poe biopic--with himself as >>>the star, no less. Lately, he's giving up on >>>starring in it himself (he had Robert Downey >>>lined up at one point), which is too >>>bad. Wouldn't you just love to hear Rocky reading the Raven? >>> >>> >>> >>>From: "jforjames at aol.com" >>>To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>>Sent: Wed, December 15, 2010 10:21:51 AM >>>Subject: [New-Poetry] Cusack as Poe, and Hollywood does the poets >>> >>>http://www.firstshowing.net/2010/12/13/first-bw-look-john-cusack-as-edgar-allan-poe-in-the-raven/ >>> >>> >>>Once upon a midnight dreary, while I pondered, >>>weak and weary I'm not sure how they got it, >>>but Thee Huffington Post (vvia MMTV) recently >>>debuted the first photo (or this just a >>>Photoshop?) of John Cusack as poet Edgar >>>Allen Poe in James McTeigue's The Raven. The >>>dark thriller has been shooting Europe for the >>>last few months and is a period piece about >>>the last five days before Poe's odd death, in >>>which the poet is in pursuit of a serial >>>killer whose murders mirror those in his stories. >>> >>>== >>>Celebrity poets... >>>http://www.thefrisky.com/post/246-10-celebs-who-played-poets/ >>> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>New-Poetry mailing list >>>New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>>http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> >> >>New from Chax Press: Mark Weiss, As Landscape. >>$16. Order from >>http://www.chax.org/poets/weiss.htm >> >> >>"What a beautiful set of circumstances! What a >>lovely concatenation of particulars. Here is >>the poet alive in every sense of the word, and >>through every one of his senses. Instead of >>missing a beat or a part, Weiss???? fragments >>are like Chekhov???????????s short >>stories????the more that gets left out, the >>more they seem to contain One can hear echoes >>from all the vaarious anccestors...[but] the >>voice, at its center, its core, is pure Mark >>Weiss. His use of the fragment is both elegant >>and bafflingly clear, a pure musical >>threnody [it] opens a window, not only into a >>mind, but a persoon, a personality, this human >>figure at the emotional center of the poem." >> >>M.G. Stephens, in Jacket. >>http://jacketmagazine.com/40/r-weiss-rb-stephens.shtml >> >>_______________________________________________ >>New-Poetry mailing list >>New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > >New from Chax Press: Mark Weiss, As Landscape. >$16. Order from >http://www.chax.org/poets/weiss.htm > > >"What a beautiful set of circumstances! What a >lovely concatenation of particulars. Here is the >poet alive in every sense of the word, and >through every one of his senses. Instead of >missing a beat or a part, Weiss??? fragments are >like Chekhov???s short stories??the more that >gets left out, the more they seem to contain >One can hear echoes from all the various >ancestors...[but] the voice, at its center, its >core, is pure Mark Weiss. His use of the >fragment is both elegant and bafflingly clear, a >pure musical threnody ?[it] opens a window, not >only into a mind, but a person, a personality, >this human figure at the emotional center of the poem." > >M.G. Stephens, in Jacket. >http://jacketmagazine.com/40/r-weiss-rb-stephens.shtml > >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry New from Chax Press: Mark Weiss, As Landscape. $16. Order from http://www.chax.org/poets/weiss.htm "What a beautiful set of circumstances! What a lovely concatenation of particulars. Here is the poet alive in every sense of the word, and through every one of his senses. Instead of missing a beat or a part, Weiss? fragments are like Chekhov?s short stories?the more that gets left out, the more they seem to contain One can hear echoes from all the various ancestors...[but] the voice, at its center, its core, is pure Mark Weiss. His use of the fragment is both elegant and bafflingly clear, a pure musical threnody [it] opens a window, not only into a mind, but a person, a personality, this human figure at the emotional center of the poem." M.G. Stephens, in Jacket. http://jacketmagazine.com/40/r-weiss-rb-stephens.shtml -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Wed Dec 15 15:36:58 2010 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2010 15:36:58 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Last Wilshberia post for now: I guess I lied In-Reply-To: References: <6c957.1bb15718.3a398b73@cs.com><4D0901A9.3010806@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <4D0926EA.2010602@nut-n-but.net> On 12/15/2010 1:55 PM, James Cervantes wrote: > What's wrong with being a multimedia artist? > > - Jim I take it you mean "being /called/ a multi-media artist." Nothing, but the term has been in long use to mean something much different from a visual or sound or, certainly, a mathematical poet. Multi-media artists, in my experience, are generally visual artists whose works go beyond what can be easily framed. I'm not that up on it, but they make a lot of installations, or organize happenings. Genuine visual poets are primarily verbal, which multi-media artists rarely if ever are. I believe multi-media artists are generally considered visual artists. I like the idea of three kinds of arts: one experienced primarily in the brain's visual areas, one primarily experienced in the brain's auditory areas and one primarily experienced in the brain's verbal areas. I think almost every work of art is primarily for one of the three areas, even opera, which I consider music with words since for me it certainly is. The dance when not to music is visual art--art for the eye. Naturally, as must be the case in all taxonomies, there are problems at the borblur--is the Swan Lake ballet music or dance? I think there are few calls for the dance alone, but the music is played alone often in concerts, so I'd say it's music. But it doesn't matter. The fact that there are works at the borblur of every taxonomy does not make taxonimization valueless. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Wed Dec 15 15:45:41 2010 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2010 15:45:41 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fictional Poets In-Reply-To: References: <8CD6A82EEF61756-17EC-AA0B@webmail-d084.sysops.aol.com><307125.73970.qm@web120507.mail.ne1.yahoo.com><974981.62644.qm@web120512.mail.ne1.yahoo.com><695430.28551.qm@web120517.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4D0928F5.9000302@nut-n-but.net> How about effective portrait of a fictional poet in a movie, play, novel or short story? The only one I can think of is Marchbanks in one of Shaw's plays. Not convincing as a poet to me, at all. Then there's the novel Bellow wrote (and I haven't read) with the character based on the failed poet of great promise he knew, whose name I can't remember. But I'm curious about genuinely fictional poets. --Bob From halvard at gmail.com Wed Dec 15 15:43:54 2010 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2010 14:43:54 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Hollywood does the poets In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: If I may begin by saying that I have no favorite, the runner-ups are Mrs. Parker and the Vicious Circle, Tom and Viv, and Barfly in no particular order. Hal "A sudden silence in the middle of a conversation suddenly brings us back to essentials: it reveals how dearly we must pay for the invention of speech." --E. M. Cioran Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home *Mainly Black , **Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ;* *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; * ***Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; * ***G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; * *Transparencies & Projections * On Wed, Dec 15, 2010 at 1:39 PM, Jeff Newberry wrote: > Jim's post got me to thinking: what is your favorite portrayal of a poet > on the big screen. I actually liked DiCaprio as Rimbaud in *Total > Eclipse*. I didn't see *Sylvia*, but someone told me that Paltrow did a > good job with the role. > > --Jeff Newberry > > On Wed, Dec 15, 2010 at 10:21 AM, wrote: > >> >> http://www.firstshowing.net/2010/12/13/first-bw-look-john-cusack-as-edgar-allan-poe-in-the-raven/ >> >> Once upon a midnight dreary, while I pondered, weak and weary? I'm not >> sure how they got it, but The Huffington Post (via MTV) recently debuted the >> first photo (or this just a Photoshop?) of John Cusack as poet Edgar Allen >> Poe in James McTeigue's The Raven. The dark thriller has been shooting >> Europe for the last few months and is a period piece about the last five >> days before Poe's odd death, in which the poet is in pursuit of a serial >> killer whose murders mirror those in his stories. >> >> == >> Celebrity poets... >> http://www.thefrisky.com/post/246-10-celebs-who-played-poets/ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > > > -- > You cannot tell people what to do, you can only tell them parables; and > that is what art really is, particular stories of particular people and > experience, from which each according to his own immediate and peculiar > needs may draw his own conclusion. --W.H. Auden > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From junction at earthlink.net Wed Dec 15 15:47:00 2010 From: junction at earthlink.net (Mark Weiss) Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2010 15:47:00 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fictional Poets In-Reply-To: <4D0928F5.9000302@nut-n-but.net> References: <8CD6A82EEF61756-17EC-AA0B@webmail-d084.sysops.aol.com> <307125.73970.qm@web120507.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <974981.62644.qm@web120512.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <695430.28551.qm@web120517.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <4D0928F5.9000302@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: Several of us on this list probably qualify. To go back to fictional portrayals fo a moment, I read a truly dreadful detective story with Chaucer as the detective. I've fortunately forgotten all the details. How about Stephen Daedalus? Virginia Woolf's Orlando? There was also a 1950s novel with a vaguely Dylan Thomasesque poet who gets killed by the dentist, who suspects him of doing the dirty with his wife. The Shaw play is Candida. At 03:45 PM 12/15/2010, you wrote: >How about effective portrait of a fictional poet >in a movie, play, novel or short story? The >only one I can think of is Marchbanks in one of >Shaw's plays. Not convincing as a poet to me, >at all. Then there's the novel Bellow wrote (and >I haven't read) with the character based on the >failed poet of great promise he knew, whose name >I can't remember. But I'm curious about genuinely fictional poets. > >--Bob >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry New from Chax Press: Mark Weiss, As Landscape. $16. Order from http://www.chax.org/poets/weiss.htm "What a beautiful set of circumstances! What a lovely concatenation of particulars. Here is the poet alive in every sense of the word, and through every one of his senses. Instead of missing a beat or a part, Weiss? fragments are like Chekhov?s short stories?the more that gets left out, the more they seem to contain One can hear echoes from all the various ancestors...[but] the voice, at its center, its core, is pure Mark Weiss. His use of the fragment is both elegant and bafflingly clear, a pure musical threnody [it] opens a window, not only into a mind, but a person, a personality, this human figure at the emotional center of the poem." M.G. Stephens, in Jacket. http://jacketmagazine.com/40/r-weiss-rb-stephens.shtml -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From millb at aol.com Wed Dec 15 15:46:53 2010 From: millb at aol.com (Millicent) Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2010 15:46:53 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fictional Poets In-Reply-To: <4D0928F5.9000302@nut-n-but.net> References: <8CD6A82EEF61756-17EC-AA0B@webmail-d084.sysops.aol.com><307125.73970.qm@web120507.mail.ne1.yahoo.com><974981.62644.qm@web120512.mail.ne1.yahoo.com><695430.28551.qm@web120517.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <4D0928F5.9000302@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <8CD6AB056BC9319-1D34-2619@webmail-m016.sysops.aol.com> What about the movie based on AS Byatt's Possession? With its two fictional Victorian poets, Randolph Henry Ash and Christabel LaMotte. Millicent -----Original Message----- From: Bob Grumman To: NewPoetry List Sent: Wed, Dec 15, 2010 12:45 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Fictional Poets How about effective portrait of a fictional poet in a movie, play, novel or short story? The only one I can think of is Marchbanks in one of Shaw's plays. Not convincing as a poet to me, at all. Then there's the novel Bellow wrote (and I haven't read) with the character based on the failed poet of great promise he knew, whose name I can't remember. But I'm curious about genuinely fictional poets. --Bob _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fox.skip at gmail.com Wed Dec 15 15:51:43 2010 From: fox.skip at gmail.com (Skip Fox) Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2010 14:51:43 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fictional Poets In-Reply-To: <4D0928F5.9000302@nut-n-but.net> References: <8CD6A82EEF61756-17EC-AA0B@webmail-d084.sysops.aol.com> <307125.73970.qm@web120507.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <974981.62644.qm@web120512.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <695430.28551.qm@web120517.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <4D0928F5.9000302@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: Bob, There are dozens. The most interesting to me is John Shade in Nabokov's *Pale Fire*. By the way, I see many commentators treating his poem as though it was well written. Only the first 14 lines are really well written. Although there are other splashes of genius, most of the rest sounds like a satire on Frost. And the unevenness has always made me wonder. Has anyone else seen this? If so, it's easy to understand the satire/comedy, but not so easy to explain why the first 14 lines are so well written. Ideas? Skip Fox On Wed, Dec 15, 2010 at 2:45 PM, Bob Grumman wrote: > How about effective portrait of a fictional poet in a movie, play, novel or > short story? The only one I can think of is Marchbanks in one of Shaw's > plays. Not convincing as a poet to me, at all. Then there's the novel > Bellow wrote (and I haven't read) with the character based on the failed > poet of great promise he knew, whose name I can't remember. But I'm curious > about genuinely fictional poets. > > --Bob > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at gmail.com Wed Dec 15 15:58:03 2010 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2010 14:58:03 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fictional Poets In-Reply-To: <4D0928F5.9000302@nut-n-but.net> References: <8CD6A82EEF61756-17EC-AA0B@webmail-d084.sysops.aol.com> <307125.73970.qm@web120507.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <974981.62644.qm@web120512.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <695430.28551.qm@web120517.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <4D0928F5.9000302@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: That was Delmore Schwartz. The novel was *Herzog.* * * Hal "A sudden silence in the middle of a conversation suddenly brings us back to essentials: it reveals how dearly we must pay for the invention of speech." --E. M. Cioran Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home *Mainly Black , **Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ;* *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; * ***Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; * ***G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; * *Transparencies & Projections * On Wed, Dec 15, 2010 at 2:45 PM, Bob Grumman wrote: > How about effective portrait of a fictional poet in a movie, play, novel or > short story? The only one I can think of is Marchbanks in one of Shaw's > plays. Not convincing as a poet to me, at all. Then there's the novel > Bellow wrote (and I haven't read) with the character based on the failed > poet of great promise he knew, whose name I can't remember. But I'm curious > about genuinely fictional poets. > > --Bob > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From junction at earthlink.net Wed Dec 15 15:59:00 2010 From: junction at earthlink.net (Mark Weiss) Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2010 15:59:00 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Hollywood does the poets In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Rip Torn as Whitman, in Beautiful Dreamers. At 03:43 PM 12/15/2010, you wrote: >If I may begin by saying that I have no favorite, >the runner-ups are Mrs. Parker and the Vicious Circle, >Tom and Viv, and Barfly in no particular order. > >Hal > >"A sudden silence in the middle of a conversation >suddenly brings us back to essentials: it reveals >how dearly we must pay for the invention of speech." > > --E. M. Cioran > >Halvard Johnson >================ > >halvard at gmail.com >http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home >http://entropyandme.blogspot.com >http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com >http://www.hamiltonstone.org >http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home > >Mainly >Black, >Obras >P?blicas; >The >Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets; >Organ >Harvest with Entrance of Clones; >Tango >Bouquet; >Theory >of Harmony; >Rapsodie >espagnole; >Guide >to the Tokyo Subway; >The >Sonnet Project; >G(e)nome; >Winter >Journey; >Eclipse; >The Dance of the Red Swan; >Transparencies & Projections > > > > >On Wed, Dec 15, 2010 at 1:39 PM, Jeff Newberry ><jeff.newberry at gmail.com> wrote: >Jim's post got me to thinking: what is your >favorite portrayal of a poet on the big >screen. I actually liked DiCaprio as Rimbaud in >*Total Eclipse*. I didn't see *Sylvia*, but >someone told me that Paltrow did a good job with the role. > >--Jeff Newberry > >On Wed, Dec 15, 2010 at 10:21 AM, ><jforjames at aol.com> wrote: >http://www.firstshowing.net/2010/12/13/first-bw-look-john-cusack-as-edgar-allan-poe-in-the-raven/ > >Once upon a midnight dreary, while I pondered, >weak and weary I'm not sure how they got it, >but The Huffington Post (via MTV) recently >debuted the first photo (or this just a >Photoshop?) of John Cusack as poet Edgar Allen >Poe in James McTeigue's The Raven. The dark >thriller has been shooting Europe for the last >few months and is a period piece about the last >five days before Poe's odd death, in which the >poet is in pursuit of a serial killer whose >murders mirror those in his stories. > >== >Celebrity poets... >http://www.thefrisky.com/post/246-10-celebs-who-played-poets/ > >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > >-- >You cannot tell people what to do, you can only >tell them parables; and that is what art really >is, particular stories of particular people and >experience, from which each according to his own >immediate and peculiar needs may draw his own conclusion. --W.H. Auden > > >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry New from Chax Press: Mark Weiss, As Landscape. $16. Order from http://www.chax.org/poets/weiss.htm "What a beautiful set of circumstances! What a lovely concatenation of particulars. Here is the poet alive in every sense of the word, and through every one of his senses. Instead of missing a beat or a part, Weiss? fragments are like Chekhov?s short stories?the more that gets left out, the more they seem to contain One can hear echoes from all the various ancestors...[but] the voice, at its center, its core, is pure Mark Weiss. His use of the fragment is both elegant and bafflingly clear, a pure musical threnody [it] opens a window, not only into a mind, but a person, a personality, this human figure at the emotional center of the poem." M.G. Stephens, in Jacket. http://jacketmagazine.com/40/r-weiss-rb-stephens.shtml -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mgreendunf at aol.com Wed Dec 15 15:56:58 2010 From: mgreendunf at aol.com (Marie Gauthier) Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2010 15:56:58 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fictional Poets In-Reply-To: References: <8CD6A82EEF61756-17EC-AA0B@webmail-d084.sysops.aol.com><307125.73970.qm@web120507.mail.ne1.yahoo.com><974981.62644.qm@web120512.mail.ne1.yahoo.com><695430.28551.qm@web120517.mail.ne1.yahoo.com><4D0928F5.9000302@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <8CD6AB1BFC11D24-974-1BBF8@Webmail-d103.sysops.aol.com> I believe that's Bellow's novel Humboldt's Gift, with the character of Humboldt being based on real-life poet Delmore Schwartz, contemporary of Lowell & Berryman. the novel Bellow wrote (and I haven't read) with the character based on the failed poet of great promise he knew, whose name I can't remember. Marie Gauthier A View from the Potholes -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From junction at earthlink.net Wed Dec 15 16:04:10 2010 From: junction at earthlink.net (Mark Weiss) Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2010 16:04:10 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Hollywood does the poets In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: If I Were King: Ronald Coleman does Villon. At 03:59 PM 12/15/2010, you wrote: >Rip Torn as Whitman, in Beautiful Dreamers. > >At 03:43 PM 12/15/2010, you wrote: >>If I may begin by saying that I have no favorite, >>the runner-ups are Mrs. Parker and the Vicious Circle, >>Tom and Viv, and Barfly in no particular order. >> >>Hal >> >>"A sudden silence in the middle of a conversation >>suddenly brings us back to essentials: it reveals >>how dearly we must pay for the invention of speech." >> >> --E. M. Cioran >> >>Halvard Johnson >>================ >> >>halvard at gmail.com >>http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home >>http://entropyandme.blogspot.com >>http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com >>http://www.hamiltonstone.org >>http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home >> >>Mainly >>Black, >>Obras >>P?blicas; >>The >>Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets; >>Organ >>Harvest with Entrance of Clones; >>Tango >>Bouquet; >>Theory >>of Harmony; >>Rapsodie >>espagnole; >>Guide >>to the Tokyo Subway; >>The >>Sonnet Project; >>G(e)nome; >>Winter >>Journey; >>Eclipse; >>The Dance of the Red Swan; >>Transparencies & Projections >> >> >> >> >>On Wed, Dec 15, 2010 at 1:39 PM, Jeff Newberry >><jeff.newberry at gmail.com > wrote: >>Jim's post got me to thinking: what is your >>favorite portrayal of a poet on the big >>screen. I actually liked DiCaprio as Rimbaud >>in *Total Eclipse*. I didn't see *Sylvia*, but >>someone told me that Paltrow did a good job with the role. >>--Jeff Newberry >>On Wed, Dec 15, 2010 at 10:21 AM, >><jforjames at aol.com> wrote: >>http://www.firstshowing.net/2010/12/13/first-bw-look-john-cusack-as-edgar-allan-poe-in-the-raven/ >> >> >>Once upon a midnight dreary, while I pondered, >>weak and weary I'm not sure how they got it, >>but The Huffington Post (via MTV) recently >>debuted the first photo (or this just a >>Photoshop?) of John Cusack as poet Edgar Allen >>Poe in James McTeigue's The Raven. The dark >>thriller has been shooting Europe for the last >>few months and is a period piece about the last >>five days before Poe's odd death, in which the >>poet is in pursuit of a serial killer whose >>murders mirror those in his stories. >> >>== >>Celebrity poets... >>http://www.thefrisky.com/post/246-10-celebs-who-played-poets/ >> >>_______________________________________________ >>New-Poetry mailing list >>New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> >> >> >>-- >>You cannot tell people what to do, you can only >>tell them parables; and that is what art really >>is, particular stories of particular people and >>experience, from which each according to his >>own immediate and peculiar needs may draw his own conclusion. --W.H. Auden >> >>_______________________________________________ >>New-Poetry mailing list >>New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>New-Poetry mailing list >>New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > >New from Chax Press: Mark Weiss, As Landscape. >$16. Order from http://www.chax.org/poets/weiss.htm > > >"What a beautiful set of circumstances! What a >lovely concatenation of particulars. Here is the >poet alive in every sense of the word, and >through every one of his senses. Instead of >missing a beat or a part, Weiss? fragments are >like Chekhov?s short stories?the more that gets >left out, the more they seem to contain One can >hear echoes from all the various >ancestors...[but] the voice, at its center, its >core, is pure Mark Weiss. His use of the >fragment is both elegant and bafflingly clear, a >pure musical threnody [it] opens a window, not >only into a mind, but a person, a personality, >this human figure at the emotional center of the poem." > >M.G. Stephens, in Jacket. >http://jacketmagazine.com/40/r-weiss-rb-stephens.shtml >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry New from Chax Press: Mark Weiss, As Landscape. $16. Order from http://www.chax.org/poets/weiss.htm "What a beautiful set of circumstances! What a lovely concatenation of particulars. Here is the poet alive in every sense of the word, and through every one of his senses. Instead of missing a beat or a part, Weiss? fragments are like Chekhov?s short stories?the more that gets left out, the more they seem to contain One can hear echoes from all the various ancestors...[but] the voice, at its center, its core, is pure Mark Weiss. His use of the fragment is both elegant and bafflingly clear, a pure musical threnody [it] opens a window, not only into a mind, but a person, a personality, this human figure at the emotional center of the poem." M.G. Stephens, in Jacket. http://jacketmagazine.com/40/r-weiss-rb-stephens.shtml -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Rsgwynn1 at cs.com Wed Dec 15 16:06:48 2010 From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com (Rsgwynn1 at cs.com) Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2010 16:06:48 EST Subject: [New-Poetry] Hollywood does the poets Message-ID: <85136.2111d9cf.3a3a87e8@cs.com> In a message dated 12/15/2010 2:07:34 PM Central Standard Time, jeff.newberry at gmail.com writes: > Jim's post got me to thinking: what is your favorite portrayal of a poet > on the big screen. I actually liked DiCaprio as Rimbaud in *Total > Eclipse*. I didn't see *Sylvia*, but someone told me that Paltrow did a good job > with the role. > > --Jeff Newberry I liked the way Chaucer was portrayed in "A Knight's Tale" (by Paul Bettany). Ditto W. S. Gilbert in "Topsy Turvy." And, of course, there's "Shaxberd in Love." I heard there was a Byron movie in the works a few years back, but I haven't seen it. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Rsgwynn1 at cs.com Wed Dec 15 16:08:02 2010 From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com (Rsgwynn1 at cs.com) Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2010 16:08:02 EST Subject: [New-Poetry] Fictional Poets Message-ID: <8527f.62ab9b39.3a3a8832@cs.com> In a message dated 12/15/2010 2:40:10 PM Central Standard Time, bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net writes: > > How about effective portrait of a fictional poet in a movie, play, novel > or short story? The only one I can think of is Marchbanks in one of > Shaw's plays. Not convincing as a poet to me, at all. Then there's the > novel Bellow wrote (and I haven't read) with the character based on the > failed poet of great promise he knew, whose name I can't remember. But > I'm curious about genuinely fictional poets. > > --Bob Humboldt's Gift (based on Delmore Schwartz). -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Rsgwynn1 at cs.com Wed Dec 15 16:10:19 2010 From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com (Rsgwynn1 at cs.com) Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2010 16:10:19 EST Subject: [New-Poetry] Fictional Poets Message-ID: <854a8.3b3d68d1.3a3a88bb@cs.com> In a message dated 12/15/2010 2:47:06 PM Central Standard Time, junction at earthlink.net writes: > > How about Stephen Daedalus? Virginia Woolf's Orlando? There was also a > 1950s novel with a vaguely Dylan Thomasesque poet who gets killed by the > dentist, who suspects him of doing the dirty with his wife. Tom Conti won an Oscar for "Reuben, Reuben." Sean Connery played a poet named Samson Shilitoe in "A Fine Madness." -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Rsgwynn1 at cs.com Wed Dec 15 16:11:25 2010 From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com (Rsgwynn1 at cs.com) Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2010 16:11:25 EST Subject: [New-Poetry] Fictional Poets Message-ID: <855c6.2fa3c8d2.3a3a88fd@cs.com> In a message dated 12/15/2010 2:47:06 PM Central Standard Time, junction at earthlink.net writes: > > How about Stephen Daedalus? Virginia Woolf's Orlando? There was also a > 1950s novel with a vaguely Dylan Thomasesque poet who gets killed by the > dentist, who suspects him of doing the dirty with his wife. And let's not forget Eddie Murphy, as Tyron Green, reciting "Kill My Landlord." -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Rsgwynn1 at cs.com Wed Dec 15 16:13:17 2010 From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com (Rsgwynn1 at cs.com) Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2010 16:13:17 EST Subject: [New-Poetry] Hollywood does the poets Message-ID: <857ae.2973cef7.3a3a896d@cs.com> In a message dated 12/15/2010 2:59:08 PM Central Standard Time, junction at earthlink.net writes: > > > Rip Torn as Whitman, in Beautiful Dreamers. > And that was a stretch! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Rsgwynn1 at cs.com Wed Dec 15 16:14:18 2010 From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com (Rsgwynn1 at cs.com) Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2010 16:14:18 EST Subject: [New-Poetry] Hollywood does the poets Message-ID: <858af.72708e52.3a3a89aa@cs.com> Several Oscar Wilde movies. More recently "Bright Star." I still think the most accurate movie about a poet was "8 Mile." -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From junction at earthlink.net Wed Dec 15 16:37:23 2010 From: junction at earthlink.net (Mark Weiss) Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2010 16:37:23 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Hollywood does the poets In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: The Barrets of Wimpole Street--both Brownings The Bride of Frankenstein--Shelley and Browning At 04:04 PM 12/15/2010, you wrote: >If I Were King: Ronald Coleman does Villon. > >At 03:59 PM 12/15/2010, you wrote: >>Rip Torn as Whitman, in Beautiful Dreamers. >> >>At 03:43 PM 12/15/2010, you wrote: >>>If I may begin by saying that I have no favorite, >>>the runner-ups are Mrs. Parker and the Vicious Circle, >>>Tom and Viv, and Barfly in no particular order. >>> >>>Hal >>> >>>"A sudden silence in the middle of a conversation >>>suddenly brings us back to essentials: it reveals >>>how dearly we must pay for the invention of speech." >>> >>> --E. M. Cioran >>> >>>Halvard Johnson >>>================ >>> >>>halvard at gmail.com >>>http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home >>>http://entropyandme.blogspot.com >>>http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com >>>http://www.hamiltonstone.org >>>http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home >>> >>>Mainly >>>Black, >>>Obras >>>P?blicas; >>>The >>>Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets; >>>Organ >>>Harvest with Entrance of Clones; >>>Tango >>>Bouquet; >>>Theory >>>of Harmony; >>>Rapsodie >>>espagnole; >>>Guide >>>to the Tokyo Subway; >>>The >>>Sonnet Project; >>>G(e)nome; >>>Winter >>>Journey; >>>Eclipse; >>>The Dance of the Red Swan; >>>Transparencies & Projections >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>On Wed, Dec 15, 2010 at 1:39 PM, Jeff Newberry >>><jeff.newberry at gmail.com > wrote: >>>Jim's post got me to thinking: what is your >>>favorite portrayal of a poet on the big >>>screen. I actually liked DiCaprio as Rimbaud >>>in *Total Eclipse*. I didn't see *Sylvia*, >>>but someone told me that Paltrow did a good job with the role. >>>--Jeff Newberry >>>On Wed, Dec 15, 2010 at 10:21 AM, >>><jforjames at aol.com> wrote: >>>http://www.firstshowing.net/2010/12/13/first-bw-look-john-cusack-as-edgar-allan-poe-in-the-raven/ >>> >>> >>>Once upon a midnight dreary, while I pondered, >>>weak and weary I'm not sure how they got it, >>>but The Huffington Post (via MTV) recently >>>debuted the first photo (or this just a >>>Photoshop?) of John Cusack as poet Edgar >>>Allen Poe in James McTeigue's The Raven. The >>>dark thriller has been shooting Europe for the >>>last few months and is a period piece about >>>the last five days before Poe's odd death, in >>>which the poet is in pursuit of a serial >>>killer whose murders mirror those in his stories. >>> >>>== >>>Celebrity poets... >>>http://www.thefrisky.com/post/246-10-celebs-who-played-poets/ >>> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>New-Poetry mailing list >>>New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>>http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>-- >>>You cannot tell people what to do, you can >>>only tell them parables; and that is what art >>>really is, particular stories of particular >>>people and experience, from which each >>>according to his own immediate and peculiar >>>needs may draw his own conclusion. --W.H. Auden >>> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>New-Poetry mailing list >>>New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>>http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>> >>> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>New-Poetry mailing list >>>New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>>http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> >> >>New from Chax Press: Mark Weiss, As Landscape. >>$16. Order from http://www.chax.org/poets/weiss.htm >> >> >>"What a beautiful set of circumstances! What a >>lovely concatenation of particulars. Here is >>the poet alive in every sense of the word, and >>through every one of his senses. Instead of >>missing a beat or a part, Weiss? fragments are >>like Chekhov?s short stories?the more that gets >>left out, the more they seem to contain One >>can hear echoes from all the various >>ancestors...[but] the voice, at its center, its >>core, is pure Mark Weiss. His use of the >>fragment is both elegant and bafflingly clear, >>a pure musical threnody [it] opens a window, >>not only into a mind, but a person, a >>personality, this human figure at the emotional center of the poem." >> >>M.G. Stephens, in Jacket. >>http://jacketmagazine.com/40/r-weiss-rb-stephens.shtml >>_______________________________________________ >>New-Poetry mailing list >>New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > >New from Chax Press: Mark Weiss, As Landscape. >$16. Order from http://www.chax.org/poets/weiss.htm > > >"What a beautiful set of circumstances! What a >lovely concatenation of particulars. Here is the >poet alive in every sense of the word, and >through every one of his senses. Instead of >missing a beat or a part, Weiss? fragments are >like Chekhov?s short stories?the more that gets >left out, the more they seem to contain One can >hear echoes from all the various >ancestors...[but] the voice, at its center, its >core, is pure Mark Weiss. His use of the >fragment is both elegant and bafflingly clear, a >pure musical threnody [it] opens a window, not >only into a mind, but a person, a personality, >this human figure at the emotional center of the poem." > >M.G. Stephens, in Jacket. >http://jacketmagazine.com/40/r-weiss-rb-stephens.shtml >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry New from Chax Press: Mark Weiss, As Landscape. $16. Order from http://www.chax.org/poets/weiss.htm "What a beautiful set of circumstances! What a lovely concatenation of particulars. Here is the poet alive in every sense of the word, and through every one of his senses. Instead of missing a beat or a part, Weiss? fragments are like Chekhov?s short stories?the more that gets left out, the more they seem to contain One can hear echoes from all the various ancestors...[but] the voice, at its center, its core, is pure Mark Weiss. His use of the fragment is both elegant and bafflingly clear, a pure musical threnody [it] opens a window, not only into a mind, but a person, a personality, this human figure at the emotional center of the poem." M.G. Stephens, in Jacket. http://jacketmagazine.com/40/r-weiss-rb-stephens.shtml -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Wed Dec 15 16:58:25 2010 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2010 13:58:25 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] Fictional Poets In-Reply-To: <855c6.2fa3c8d2.3a3a88fd@cs.com> References: <855c6.2fa3c8d2.3a3a88fd@cs.com> Message-ID: <885892.52298.qm@web55207.mail.re4.yahoo.com> Ole Tyron Green & that Kill MY Landlord bit, my all time favorite SNL skit. & as far as I'm concerned, when the Buk plays himself, he's playing a fictional character. There's been Oscar Wilde impersonations too. & the beats, lots of docudramas. hell, there was a recent beat retro at the National Gallery. the beat goes on & on & on, it seems ... & i'm ok with that. ________________________________ From: "Rsgwynn1 at cs.com" To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Wed, December 15, 2010 4:11:25 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Fictional Poets In a message dated 12/15/2010 2:47:06 PM Central Standard Time, junction at earthlink.net writes: >How about Stephen Daedalus? Virginia Woolf's Orlando? There was also a 1950s >novel with a vaguely Dylan Thomasesque poet who gets killed by the dentist, who >suspects him of doing the dirty with his wife. And let's not forget Eddie Murphy, as Tyron Green, reciting "Kill My Landlord." -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Wed Dec 15 17:02:12 2010 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2010 14:02:12 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] Fw: Hollywood does the poets Message-ID: <306973.54449.qm@web55201.mail.re4.yahoo.com> damn, & I forgot about di Cap playing Jim Carrol in The Basket Diaries. DiCaprio did a decent job. ? ----- Forwarded Message ---- From: Jeff Newberry To: Sent: Wed, December 15, 2010 2:39:02 PM Subject: [New-Poetry] Hollywood does the poets Jim's post got me to thinking:? what is your favorite portrayal of a poet on the big screen.? I actually liked as Rimbaud in *Total Eclipse*.? I didn't see *Sylvia*, but someone told me that Paltrow did a good job with the role. --Jeff Newberry On Wed, Dec 15, 2010 at 10:21 AM, wrote: http://www.firstshowing.net/2010/12/13/first-bw-look-john-cusack-as-edgar-allan-poe-in-the-raven/ > >Once upon a midnight dreary, while I pondered, weak and weary? I'm not sure how >they got it, but The Huffington Post (via MTV) recently debuted the first photo >(or this just a Photoshop?) of John Cusack as? poet Edgar Allen Poe in James >McTeigue's The Raven. The dark thriller has been shooting Europe for the last >few months and is a period piece about the last five days before Poe's odd >death, in which the poet is in pursuit of a serial killer whose murders mirror >those in his stories. > >== >Celebrity poets... >http://www.thefrisky.com/post/246-10-celebs-who-played-poets/ >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- You cannot tell people what to do, you can only tell them parables; and that is what art really is, particular stories of particular people and experience, from which each according to his own immediate and peculiar needs may draw his own conclusion. --W.H. Auden -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From halvard at gmail.com Wed Dec 15 17:05:55 2010 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2010 16:05:55 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fictional Poets In-Reply-To: <8CD6AB1BFC11D24-974-1BBF8@Webmail-d103.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CD6A82EEF61756-17EC-AA0B@webmail-d084.sysops.aol.com> <307125.73970.qm@web120507.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <974981.62644.qm@web120512.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <695430.28551.qm@web120517.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <4D0928F5.9000302@nut-n-but.net> <8CD6AB1BFC11D24-974-1BBF8@Webmail-d103.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: Right, it was Humboldt, not Herzog. Hal "A sudden silence in the middle of a conversation suddenly brings us back to essentials: it reveals how dearly we must pay for the invention of speech." --E. M. Cioran Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home *Mainly Black , **Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ;* *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; * ***Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; * ***G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; * *Transparencies & Projections * On Wed, Dec 15, 2010 at 2:56 PM, Marie Gauthier wrote: > I believe that's Bellow's novel *Humboldt's Gift*, with the character of > Humboldt being based on real-life poet Delmore Schwartz, contemporary of > Lowell & Berryman. > > the novel Bellow wrote (and I haven't read) with the character based on > the failed poet of great promise he knew, whose name I can't remember. > > > > Marie Gauthier > A View from the Potholes > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Wed Dec 15 17:26:03 2010 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2010 17:26:03 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Hollywood does the poets In-Reply-To: <857ae.2973cef7.3a3a896d@cs.com> References: <857ae.2973cef7.3a3a896d@cs.com> Message-ID: <8CD6ABE31326C56-179C-2CDD@web-mmc-d10.sysops.aol.com> Rip Torn was in the news this week in CT. He pleaded guilty to breaking into a bank. (Torn was in a drunken state, or he ripped one might quip, at the time of the incident.) It all happened in the quiet and well-heeled environs of Litchfield CT. He got off with some kind of probation. I liked that Beautiful Dreamers movie too. Whitman is really the side character as I recall. The main line of the story was about a pychologist/psychiatrist who is trying to improve the conditions at an asylum and at same time trying to keep his marriage from falling apart. Whitman serves as catalyst of their renewed interest in one another. (My memory of it anyways.) Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Wed, Dec 15, 2010 4:13 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Hollywood does the poets In a message dated 12/15/2010 2:59:08 PM Central Standard Time, junction at earthlink.net writes: Rip Torn as Whitman, in Beautiful Dreamers. And that was a stretch! _______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From robin.hamilton3 at virginmedia.com Wed Dec 15 17:26:35 2010 From: robin.hamilton3 at virginmedia.com (Robin Hamilton) Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2010 17:26:35 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Hollywood does the poets In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4900269136F34C6B8490271F883FD5DD@RobinLaptopPC> Add Stevie (about Stevie Smith). As I remember it, this used a lot of Her Own Words material, both poetry and prose. Robin ----- Original Message ----- From: Mark Weiss To: NewPoetry List Sent: Wednesday, December 15, 2010 4:37 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Hollywood does the poets The Barrets of Wimpole Street--both Brownings -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Wed Dec 15 17:31:35 2010 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2010 17:31:35 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fictional Poets In-Reply-To: <855c6.2fa3c8d2.3a3a88fd@cs.com> References: <855c6.2fa3c8d2.3a3a88fd@cs.com> Message-ID: <8CD6ABEF734C025-179C-2DC6@web-mmc-d10.sysops.aol.com> A great instance of recitation in a movie, John Huston's "The Dead". This from wikipedia... The most significant change to the story was scriptwriter Tony Huston's inclusion of a new character, a Mr Grace, who recites an eighth-century Middle Irish poem, "Donal ?g" (tr. Lady Gregory: [2][3]. The effect of this is to act as catalyst for the "Distant Music" that provokes the memories Gretta and Gabriel discuss at the end of the film. -----Original Message----- From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Wed, Dec 15, 2010 4:11 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Fictional Poets In a message dated 12/15/2010 2:47:06 PM Central Standard Time, junction at earthlink.net writes: How about Stephen Daedalus? Virginia Woolf's Orlando? There was also a 1950s novel with a vaguely Dylan Thomasesque poet who gets killed by the dentist, who suspects him of doing the dirty with his wife. And let's not forget Eddie Murphy, as Tyron Green, reciting "Kill My Landlord." _______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From robin.hamilton3 at virginmedia.com Wed Dec 15 17:34:19 2010 From: robin.hamilton3 at virginmedia.com (Robin Hamilton) Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2010 17:34:19 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Cusack as Poe, and Hollywood does the poets In-Reply-To: <68942F78-9D68-4E4B-9B30-F535DF679BD5@ripon.edu> References: <3a617.3b0bac6d.3a3a3e63@cs.com> <68942F78-9D68-4E4B-9B30-F535DF679BD5@ripon.edu> Message-ID: From: Graham, David Daniel Day Lewis could do Poe. Well, his daddy was a [truncated] Poe -- the "Day" part of the MacSpaunday Group. Robin Ah, just remembered, thinking of fictionalised poets, one of the detective novels C. Day Lewis wrote as Nicholas Blake featured T.S.Eliot-under-another-name. I think he turned out to be the murderer, as it happened. R. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Wed Dec 15 17:36:12 2010 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2010 17:36:12 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Hollywood does the poets In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8CD6ABF9C47BFDE-179C-2EA0@web-mmc-d10.sysops.aol.com> Along the lines of Barfly... Tales of Ordinary Madness (Ben Gazzara is the poet with issues, al la Buke) -----Original Message----- From: Halvard Johnson To: NewPoetry List Sent: Wed, Dec 15, 2010 3:43 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Hollywood does the poets If I may begin by saying that I have no favorite, the runner-ups are Mrs. Parker and the Vicious Circle, Tom and Viv, and Barfly in no particular order. Hal "A sudden silence in the middle of a conversation suddenly brings us back to essentials: it reveals how dearly we must pay for the invention of speech." --E. M. Cioran Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home Mainly Black, Obras P?blicas; The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets; Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones; Tango Bouquet; Theory of Harmony; Rapsodie espagnole; Guide to the Tokyo Subway; The Sonnet Project; G(e)nome; Winter Journey; Eclipse; The Dance of the Red Swan; Transparencies & Projections On Wed, Dec 15, 2010 at 1:39 PM, Jeff Newberry wrote: Jim's post got me to thinking: what is your favorite portrayal of a poet on the big screen. I actually liked DiCaprio as Rimbaud in *Total Eclipse*. I didn't see *Sylvia*, but someone told me that Paltrow did a good job with the role. --Jeff Newberry On Wed, Dec 15, 2010 at 10:21 AM, wrote: http://www.firstshowing.net/2010/12/13/first-bw-look-john-cusack-as-edgar-allan-poe-in-the-raven/ Once upon a midnight dreary, while I pondered, weak and weary? I'm not sure how they got it, but The Huffington Post (via MTV) recently debuted the first photo (or this just a Photoshop?) of John Cusack as poet Edgar Allen Poe in James McTeigue's The Raven. The dark thriller has been shooting Europe for the last few months and is a period piece about the last five days before Poe's odd death, in which the poet is in pursuit of a serial killer whose murders mirror those in his stories. == Celebrity poets... http://www.thefrisky.com/post/246-10-celebs-who-played-poets/ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -- You cannot tell people what to do, you can only tell them parables; and that is what art really is, particular stories of particular people and experience, from which each according to his own immediate and peculiar needs may draw his own conclusion. --W.H. Auden _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Wed Dec 15 17:38:28 2010 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2010 17:38:28 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] The MOST IMPORTANT Po Books of Fall 2010 Message-ID: <8CD6ABFED663D72-179C-2F03@web-mmc-d10.sysops.aol.com> http://www.huffingtonpost.com/anis-shivani/poetry-most-important-books-2010_b_795312.html#s204813 Anis Shivani Posted: December 15, 2010 The 17 Most Important Poetry Books of Fall 2010 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Wed Dec 15 17:50:37 2010 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2010 17:50:37 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fictional Poets In-Reply-To: References: <8CD6A82EEF61756-17EC-AA0B@webmail-d084.sysops.aol.com><307125.73970.qm@web120507.mail.ne1.yahoo.com><974981.62644.qm@web120512.mail.ne1.yahoo.com><695430.28551.qm@web120517.mail.ne1.yahoo.com><4D0928F5.90003 02@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <4D09463D.1010407@nut-n-but.net> On 12/15/2010 3:47 PM, Mark Weiss wrote: > Several of us on this list probably qualify. > > To go back to fictional portrayals fo a moment, I read a truly > dreadful detective story with Chaucer as the detective. I've > fortunately forgotten all the details. > > How about Stephen Daedalus? I wouldn't consider him fictional, but based on Joyce. And he isn't a poet in the Portrait, is he? > Virginia Woolf's Orlando? I don't remember him/her as a poet, but as a grotesque. > There was also a 1950s novel with a vaguely Dylan Thomasesque poet who > gets killed by the dentist, who suspects him of doing the dirty with > his wife. > > The Shaw play is Candida. Right. Actually one of my favorites despite Marchbanks, and Shaw's standard bias against romanticism. --Bob From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Wed Dec 15 17:53:38 2010 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2010 17:53:38 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fictional Poets In-Reply-To: References: <8CD6A82EEF61756-17EC-AA0B@webmail-d084.sysops.aol.com><307125.73970.qm@web120507.mail.ne1.yahoo.com><974981.62644.qm @web120512.mail.ne1.yahoo.com><695430.28551.qm@web120517.mail.ne1.yahoo.com><4D0928F5.9000302@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <4D0946F2.9050704@nut-n-but.net> On 12/15/2010 3:51 PM, Skip Fox wrote: > Bob, > There are dozens. The most interesting to me is John Shade in > Nabokov's /Pale Fire/. I remember him. Yes, I'm sure there are quite a few. I just don't have them in my head, I guess because none ever jolted me as a poet. > By the way, I see many commentators treating his poem as though it was > well written. Only the first 14 lines are really well written. > Although there are other splashes of genius, most of the rest sounds > like a satire on Frost. And the unevenness has always made me wonder. I remember thinking it pretty good in spots. > Has anyone else seen this? If so, it's easy to understand the > satire/comedy, but not so easy to explain why the first 14 lines are > so well written. Ideas? I don't think it was satire. I doubt it was intended to show Shade as brilliant, just competent, and I think it did. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Wed Dec 15 17:55:14 2010 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2010 17:55:14 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fictional Poets In-Reply-To: <8CD6AB1BFC11D24-974-1BBF8@Webmail-d103.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CD6A82EEF61756-17EC-AA0B@webmail-d084.sysops.aol.com><307125.73970.qm@web120507.mail.ne1.yahoo.com><974981.62644.qm @web120512.mail.ne1.yahoo.com><695430.28551.qm@web120517.mail.ne1.yahoo.com><4D0928F5.9000302@nut-n-but.net> <8CD6AB1BFC11D24-974-1BBF8@Webmail-d103.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <4D094752.7070207@nut-n-but.net> On 12/15/2010 3:56 PM, Marie Gauthier wrote: > I believe that's Bellow's novel /Humboldt's Gift/, with the character > of Humboldt being based on real-life poet Delmore Schwartz, > contemporary of Lowell & Berryman. Right. Sometimes I think I've let my memory go because of the Internet, always there to supply what I can't remember. But thanks. I think I tried /Humboldt's Gift/ but couldn't get through it. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at gmail.com Wed Dec 15 17:51:57 2010 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2010 16:51:57 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Schattenwelt Message-ID: Schattenwelt Contra mundum--yes, well, weren?t we all in those days. A thick shake, along with fries and a burger, was enough to get us out on the streets, agitating, waving placards, daring the pigs to come get us. We?d argue until dawn, then a half-hour nap before going to work, eyes red and brains glazed over. Please don?t get me wrong, I?ve never misused the workplace for my own ends. High-octane memories cloud my views of reality. You know, I know you do. The part of my brain for solving ethical problems has long been off-limits to any- one with anything to sell, rent, or lease. Hal "A sudden silence in the middle of a conversation suddenly brings us back to essentials: it reveals how dearly we must pay for the invention of speech." --E. M. Cioran Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home *Mainly Black , **Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ;* *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; * ***Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; * ***G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; * *Transparencies & Projections * -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at gmail.com Wed Dec 15 17:46:57 2010 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2010 16:46:57 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Hollywood does the poets In-Reply-To: <8CD6ABF9C47BFDE-179C-2EA0@web-mmc-d10.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CD6ABF9C47BFDE-179C-2EA0@web-mmc-d10.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: Adam Dalgleish, poet and sleuth out of P.D. James. Hal "A sudden silence in the middle of a conversation suddenly brings us back to essentials: it reveals how dearly we must pay for the invention of speech." --E. M. Cioran Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home *Mainly Black , **Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ;* *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; * ***Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; * ***G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; * *Transparencies & Projections * On Wed, Dec 15, 2010 at 4:36 PM, wrote: > Along the lines of Barfly... > Tales of Ordinary Madness (Ben Gazzara is the poet with issues, al la Buke) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Halvard Johnson > To: NewPoetry List > Sent: Wed, Dec 15, 2010 3:43 pm > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Hollywood does the poets > > If I may begin by saying that I have no favorite, > the runner-ups are Mrs. Parker and the Vicious Circle, > Tom and Viv, and Barfly in no particular order. > > Hal > > "A sudden silence in the middle of a conversation > suddenly brings us back to essentials: it reveals > how dearly we must pay for the invention of speech." > --E. M. Cioran > > Halvard Johnson > ================ > > halvard at gmail.com > http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > http://www.hamiltonstone.org > > http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home > > *Mainly Black > , **Obras P?blicas > ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets > ;* > *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones > ; **Tango Bouquet > ; **Theory of Harmony > ; * > ***Rapsodie espagnole > ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway > ; **The Sonnet Project > ; * > ***G(e)nome ; **Winter > Journey ; **Eclipse > ; **The Dance of the Red Swan > ;* > *Transparencies & Projections > * > > > > > On Wed, Dec 15, 2010 at 1:39 PM, Jeff Newberry wrote: > >> Jim's post got me to thinking: what is your favorite portrayal of a poet >> on the big screen. I actually liked DiCaprio as Rimbaud in *Total >> Eclipse*. I didn't see *Sylvia*, but someone told me that Paltrow did a >> good job with the role. >> >> --Jeff Newberry >> >> On Wed, Dec 15, 2010 at 10:21 AM, wrote: >> >>> >>> http://www.firstshowing.net/2010/12/13/first-bw-look-john-cusack-as-edgar-allan-poe-in-the-raven/ >>> >>> Once upon a midnight dreary, while I pondered, weak and weary? I'm not >>> sure how they got it, but The Huffington Post (via MTV) recently debuted the >>> first photo (or this just a Photoshop?) of John Cusack as poet Edgar Allen >>> Poe in James McTeigue's The Raven. The dark thriller has been shooting >>> Europe for the last few months and is a period piece about the last five >>> days before Poe's odd death, in which the poet is in pursuit of a serial >>> killer whose murders mirror those in his stories. >>> >>> == >>> Celebrity poets... >>> http://www.thefrisky.com/post/246-10-celebs-who-played-poets/ >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> New-Poetry mailing list >>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>> >>> >> >> >> -- >> You cannot tell people what to do, you can only tell them parables; and >> that is what art really is, particular stories of particular people and >> experience, from which each according to his own immediate and peculiar >> needs may draw his own conclusion. --W.H. Auden >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing listNew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.eduhttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Wed Dec 15 18:00:59 2010 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2010 18:00:59 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] The MOST IMPORTANT Po Books of Fall 2010 In-Reply-To: <8CD6ABFED663D72-179C-2F03@web-mmc-d10.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CD6ABFED663D72-179C-2F03@web-mmc-d10.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <4D0948AB.8070704@nut-n-but.net> On 12/15/2010 5:38 PM, jforjames at aol.com wrote: > http://www.huffingtonpost.com/anis-shivani/poetry-most-important-books-2010_b_795312.html#s204813 > Anis Shivani > Posted: December 15, 2010 > The 17 Most Important Poetry Books of Fall 2010 Oh, Gawd. I promise to leave this one alone, but I'll got look at it. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From junction at earthlink.net Wed Dec 15 17:59:03 2010 From: junction at earthlink.net (Mark Weiss) Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2010 17:59:03 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fictional Poets In-Reply-To: <8CD6ABEF734C025-179C-2DC6@web-mmc-d10.sysops.aol.com> References: <855c6.2fa3c8d2.3a3a88fd@cs.com> <8CD6ABEF734C025-179C-2DC6@web-mmc-d10.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: There's only on other major change. Joyce makes a point of saying that the old lady has a remarkably well-preserved voice, Huston has her voice faultering, ruined by time, over which he does a montage of souveniers and old pictures. The Dead may be the only film of a story that's as good as the original. At 05:31 PM 12/15/2010, you wrote: >A great instance of recitation in a movie, John >Huston's "The Dead". This from wikipedia... > >The most significant change to the story was >scriptwriter >Tony >Huston's inclusion of a new character, a Mr >Grace, who recites an eighth-century >Middle > Irish poem, "Donal ??g" (tr. >Lady >Gregory: >[2][3]. >The effect of this is to act as catalyst for the >"Distant Music" that provokes the memories >Gretta and Gabriel discuss at the end of the film. > >-----Original Message----- >From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com >To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >Sent: Wed, Dec 15, 2010 4:11 pm >Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Fictional Poets > >In a message dated 12/15/2010 2:47:06 PM Central >Standard Time, junction at earthlink.net writes: >> >>How about Stephen Daedalus? Virginia Woolf's >>Orlando? There was also a 1950s novel with a >>vaguely Dylan Thomasesque poet who gets killed >>by the dentist, who suspects him of doing the dirty with his wife. > > >And let's not forget Eddie Murphy, as Tyron >Green, reciting "Kill My Landlord." > >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry New from Chax Press: Mark Weiss, As Landscape. $16. Order from http://www.chax.org/poets/weiss.htm "What a beautiful set of circumstances! What a lovely concatenation of particulars. Here is the poet alive in every sense of the word, and through every one of his senses. Instead of missing a beat or a part, Weiss? fragments are like Chekhov?s short stories?the more that gets left out, the more they seem to contain One can hear echoes from all the various ancestors...[but] the voice, at its center, its core, is pure Mark Weiss. His use of the fragment is both elegant and bafflingly clear, a pure musical threnody [it] opens a window, not only into a mind, but a person, a personality, this human figure at the emotional center of the poem." M.G. Stephens, in Jacket. http://jacketmagazine.com/40/r-weiss-rb-stephens.shtml -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Wed Dec 15 18:13:44 2010 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2010 00:13:44 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] In the suburbs of Wilshberia In-Reply-To: <8CD6A83A817E322-17EC-AB60@webmail-d084.sysops.aol.com> References: <4D07E87F.5070603@nut-n-but.net> <8CD6A83A817E322-17EC-AB60@webmail-d084.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: *Dia_logue* _________________in Winter whispers whirl through berries: - *Is that Barry?* - naaah it's Bob's frozen cherries *- with or without Sherry?* On Wed, Dec 15, 2010 at 4:27 PM, wrote: > Dwell I but in the suburbs > Of your good pleasure? If it be no more, > VizPo is BGrutus' harlot, not his wife. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Bob Grumman > To: NewPoetry List > Sent: Tue, Dec 14, 2010 4:58 pm > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Naming with the Enemy > > > So I take up the challenge of seeking a substitute > > for Wilshberia (sweet as it sounds) and propose > > WilshBobia (which takes us further along the continuum of the years) > or > the neat over-all structure: POEMS / ODDITIES. > > > > You're welcome, > > > > Barry > > > > > Sounds to me like the poetry continuum from Wilbur to Bob, and it should be > spelled "Wilshbobbia," shouldn't it? If you want to name the little group of > villages outside Wilshberia, Barry, "Silligrummania" might be > better--although I really don't think my name deserves to be in it. > > --Bob. > > > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at gmail.com Wed Dec 15 18:25:30 2010 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2010 17:25:30 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fictional Poets In-Reply-To: References: <855c6.2fa3c8d2.3a3a88fd@cs.com> <8CD6ABEF734C025-179C-2DC6@web-mmc-d10.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: Although there are quite a few that might be better than the originals. Hal "A sudden silence in the middle of a conversation suddenly brings us back to essentials: it reveals how dearly we must pay for the invention of speech." --E. M. Cioran Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home *Mainly Black , **Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ;* *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; * ***Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; * ***G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; * *Transparencies & Projections * On Wed, Dec 15, 2010 at 4:59 PM, Mark Weiss wrote: > There's only on other major change. Joyce makes a point of saying that the > old lady has a remarkably well-preserved voice, Huston has her voice > faultering, ruined by time, over which he does a montage of souveniers and > old pictures. > > The Dead may be the only film of a story that's as good as the original. > > > At 05:31 PM 12/15/2010, you wrote: > > A great instance of recitation in a movie, John Huston's "The Dead". This > from wikipedia... > > The most significant change to the story was scriptwriter Tony Huston's > inclusion of a new character, a Mr Grace, who recites an eighth-century Middle > Irish poem, "Donal ??g" (tr. Lady > Gregory : [2] > [3] . The > effect of this is to act as catalyst for the "Distant Music" that provokes > the memories Gretta and Gabriel discuss at the end of the film. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Sent: Wed, Dec 15, 2010 4:11 pm > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Fictional Poets > > In a message dated 12/15/2010 2:47:06 PM Central Standard Time, > junction at earthlink.net writes: > > > How about Stephen Daedalus? Virginia Woolf's Orlando? There was also a > 1950s novel with a vaguely Dylan Thomasesque poet who gets killed by the > dentist, who suspects him of doing the dirty with his wife. > > > > And let's not forget Eddie Murphy, as Tyron Green, reciting "Kill My > Landlord." > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > New from Chax Press: Mark Weiss, *As Landscape. > *$16. Order from http://www.chax.org/poets/weiss.htm > > > "What a beautiful set of circumstances! What a lovely concatenation of > particulars. Here is the poet alive in every sense of the word, and through > every one of his senses. Instead of missing a beat or a part, Weiss? > fragments are like Chekhov?s short stories?the more that gets left out, the > more they seem to contain? One can hear echoes from all the various > ancestors...[but] the voice, at its center, its core, is pure Mark Weiss. > His use of the fragment is both elegant and bafflingly clear, a pure musical > threnody?[it] opens a window, not only into a mind, but a person, a > personality, this human figure at the emotional center of the poem." > > M.G. Stephens, in Jacket. > http://jacketmagazine.com/40/r-weiss-rb-stephens.shtml > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From junction at earthlink.net Wed Dec 15 18:31:09 2010 From: junction at earthlink.net (Mark Weiss) Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2010 18:31:09 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fictional Poets In-Reply-To: References: <855c6.2fa3c8d2.3a3a88fd@cs.com> <8CD6ABEF734C025-179C-2DC6@web-mmc-d10.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: To be sure. At 06:25 PM 12/15/2010, you wrote: >Although there are quite a few that might >be better than the originals. > >Hal > >"A sudden silence in the middle of a conversation >suddenly brings us back to essentials: it reveals >how dearly we must pay for the invention of speech." > > --E. M. Cioran > >Halvard Johnson >================ > >halvard at gmail.com >http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home >http://entropyandme.blogspot.com >http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com >http://www.hamiltonstone.org >http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home > >Mainly >Black, >Obras >P?blicas; >The >Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets; >Organ >Harvest with Entrance of Clones; >Tango >Bouquet; >Theory >of Harmony; >Rapsodie >espagnole; >Guide >to the Tokyo Subway; >The >Sonnet Project; >G(e)nome; >Winter >Journey; >Eclipse; >The Dance of the Red Swan; >Transparencies & Projections > > > > >On Wed, Dec 15, 2010 at 4:59 PM, Mark Weiss ><junction at earthlink.net> wrote: >There's only on other major change. Joyce makes >a point of saying that the old lady has a >remarkably well-preserved voice, Huston has her >voice faultering, ruined by time, over which he >does a montage of souveniers and old pictures. > >The Dead may be the only film of a story that's as good as the original. > > >At 05:31 PM 12/15/2010, you wrote: >>A great instance of recitation in a movie, John >>Huston's "The Dead". This from wikipedia... >> >>The most significant change to the story was >>scriptwriter >>Tony >>Huston's inclusion of a new character, a Mr >>Grace, who recites an eighth-century >>Middl >>e Irish poem, "Donal ??g" (tr. >>Lady >>Gregory: >>[2] >>[3] >>. The effect of this is to act as catalyst for >>the "Distant Music" that provokes the memories >>Gretta and Gabriel discuss at the end of the film. >> >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com >>To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>Sent: Wed, Dec 15, 2010 4:11 pm >>Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Fictional Poets >> >>In a message dated 12/15/2010 2:47:06 PM >>Central Standard Time, >>junction at earthlink.net writes: >>> >>>How about Stephen Daedalus? Virginia Woolf's >>>Orlando? There was also a 1950s novel with a >>>vaguely Dylan Thomasesque poet who gets killed >>>by the dentist, who suspects him of doing the dirty with his wife. >> >> >>And let's not forget Eddie Murphy, as Tyron >>Green, reciting "Kill My Landlord." >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>New-Poetry mailing list >>New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >>_______________________________________________ >>New-Poetry mailing list >>New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > >New from Chax Press: Mark Weiss, As Landscape. >$16. Order from >http://www.chax.org/poets/weiss.htm > > >"What a beautiful set of circumstances! What a >lovely concatenation of particulars. Here is the >poet alive in every sense of the word, and >through every one of his senses. Instead of >missing a beat or a part, Weiss? fragments are >like Chekhov?s short stories?the more that gets >left out, the more they seem to contain One can >hear echoes from all the various >ancestors...[but] the voice, at its center, its >core, is pure Mark Weiss. His use of the >fragment is both elegant and bafflingly clear, a >pure musical threnody [it] opens a window, not >only into a mind, but a person, a personality, >this human figure at the emotional center of the poem." > >M.G. Stephens, in Jacket. >http://jacketmagazine.com/40/r-weiss-rb-stephens.shtml > > >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry New from Chax Press: Mark Weiss, As Landscape. $16. Order from http://www.chax.org/poets/weiss.htm "What a beautiful set of circumstances! What a lovely concatenation of particulars. Here is the poet alive in every sense of the word, and through every one of his senses. Instead of missing a beat or a part, Weiss? fragments are like Chekhov?s short stories?the more that gets left out, the more they seem to contain One can hear echoes from all the various ancestors...[but] the voice, at its center, its core, is pure Mark Weiss. His use of the fragment is both elegant and bafflingly clear, a pure musical threnody [it] opens a window, not only into a mind, but a person, a personality, this human figure at the emotional center of the poem." M.G. Stephens, in Jacket. http://jacketmagazine.com/40/r-weiss-rb-stephens.shtml -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Wed Dec 15 20:23:10 2010 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2010 17:23:10 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] Fictional Poets In-Reply-To: References: <8CD6A82EEF61756-17EC-AA0B@webmail-d084.sysops.aol.com> <307125.73970.qm@web120507.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <974981.62644.qm@web120512.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <695430.28551.qm@web120517.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <4D0928F5.9000302@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <637700.38741.qm@web55202.mail.re4.yahoo.com> was that Humbolt, the fictional Bellow poet. i'm sort of rusty on my Bellow these days. not too long ago I got into an argument with a Chicargo friend. is Bellow a Canadian writer, or an adopted Chicargo/American writer. seems to me he's both, but if I were Canadian, I'd nail Bellow to his roots. ________________________________ From: Skip Fox To: NewPoetry List Sent: Wed, December 15, 2010 3:51:43 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Fictional Poets Bob, There are dozens. The most interesting to me is John Shade in Nabokov's Pale Fire. By the way, I see many commentators treating his poem as though it was well written. Only the first 14 lines are really well written. Although there are other splashes of genius, most of the rest sounds like a satire on Frost. And the unevenness has always made me wonder. Has anyone else seen this? If so, it's easy to understand the satire/comedy, but not so easy to explain why the first 14 lines are so well written. Ideas? Skip Fox On Wed, Dec 15, 2010 at 2:45 PM, Bob Grumman wrote: How about effective portrait of a fictional poet in a movie, play, novel or short story? The only one I can think of is Marchbanks in one of Shaw's plays. Not convincing as a poet to me, at all. Then there's the novel Bellow wrote (and I haven't read) with the character based on the failed poet of great promise he knew, whose name I can't remember. But I'm curious about genuinely fictional poets. > >--Bob >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Wed Dec 15 20:26:22 2010 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2010 17:26:22 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] Fictional Poets In-Reply-To: <4D09463D.1010407@nut-n-but.net> References: <8CD6A82EEF61756-17EC-AA0B@webmail-d084.sysops.aol.com><307125.73970.qm@web120507.mail.ne1.yahoo.com><974981.62644.qm@web120512.mail.ne1.yahoo.com><695430.28551.qm@web120517.mail.ne1.yahoo.com><4D0928F5.90003 02@nut-n-but.net> <4D09463D.1010407@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <522880.29249.qm@web55208.mail.re4.yahoo.com> he's (Stephen D) the troubled teen in the Portrait, & i believe plays a major role in the block buster Joyce sequel. Orlando is simply a British conceit in favor of cross dressing (not that there's anything wrong with that (to quote Seinfield). ________________________________ From: Bob Grumman To: NewPoetry List Sent: Wed, December 15, 2010 5:50:37 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Fictional Poets On 12/15/2010 3:47 PM, Mark Weiss wrote: > Several of us on this list probably qualify. > > To go back to fictional portrayals fo a moment, I read a truly dreadful >detective story with Chaucer as the detective. I've fortunately forgotten all >the details. > > How about Stephen Daedalus? I wouldn't consider him fictional, but based on Joyce. And he isn't a poet in the Portrait, is he? > Virginia Woolf's Orlando? I don't remember him/her as a poet, but as a grotesque. > There was also a 1950s novel with a vaguely Dylan Thomasesque poet who gets >killed by the dentist, who suspects him of doing the dirty with his wife. > > The Shaw play is Candida. Right. Actually one of my favorites despite Marchbanks, and Shaw's standard bias against romanticism. --Bob _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Wed Dec 15 21:26:23 2010 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2010 21:26:23 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] The MOST IMPORTANT Po Books of Fall 2010 In-Reply-To: <8CD6ABFED663D72-179C-2F03@web-mmc-d10.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CD6ABFED663D72-179C-2F03@web-mmc-d10.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <4D0978CF.4030906@nut-n-but.net> On 12/15/2010 5:38 PM, jforjames at aol.com wrote: > http://www.huffingtonpost.com/anis-shivani/poetry-most-important-books-2010_b_795312.html#s204813 What do you click to read the whole essay? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Rsgwynn1 at cs.com Wed Dec 15 21:23:18 2010 From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com (Rsgwynn1 at cs.com) Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2010 21:23:18 EST Subject: [New-Poetry] Hollywood does the poets Message-ID: <3ceb0.10b521de.3a3ad216@cs.com> In a message dated 12/15/2010 8:04:18 PM Central Standard Time, robin.hamilton3 at virginmedia.com writes: > > Add Stevie (about Stevie Smith). As I remember it, this used a lot of Her > Own Words material, both poetry and prose. > , > Robin > Quite wonderful. Glenda Jackson was also the world's greatest Hedda, though you can't find the film anywhere (I have a copy, heh-heh). The film about Larkin, Scrooge, was quite good too, even though Albert Finney didn't much look like him; Kenneth More was great as Kingsley Amis. And Pope was well portrayed in The Wizard of Oz. Actually, there is a pretty good film about Larkin called Love Again, which you also can't find anywhere (I have a copy, heh-heh). -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Rsgwynn1 at cs.com Wed Dec 15 21:25:55 2010 From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com (Rsgwynn1 at cs.com) Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2010 21:25:55 EST Subject: [New-Poetry] Fw: Hollywood does the poets Message-ID: <3d098.75bcd11c.3a3ad2b3@cs.com> There's the recent Ginsberg movie as well--Howl. It didn't play anywhere. Censorship. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Wed Dec 15 21:26:03 2010 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2010 21:26:03 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] The MOST IMPORTANT Po Books of Fall 2010 In-Reply-To: <4D0978CF.4030906@nut-n-but.net> References: <8CD6ABFED663D72-179C-2F03@web-mmc-d10.sysops.aol.com> <4D0978CF.4030906@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <8CD6ADFB83ADB18-1370-594C@webmail-d040.sysops.aol.com> If you click the arrow you go forward title to title. Just squib per book, not really an essay. -----Original Message----- From: Bob Grumman To: NewPoetry List Sent: Wed, Dec 15, 2010 9:26 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] The MOST IMPORTANT Po Books of Fall 2010 On 12/15/2010 5:38 PM, jforjames at aol.com wrote: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/anis-shivani/poetry-most-important-books-2010_b_795312.html#s204813 What do you click to read the whole essay? _______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Rsgwynn1 at cs.com Wed Dec 15 21:27:37 2010 From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com (Rsgwynn1 at cs.com) Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2010 21:27:37 EST Subject: [New-Poetry] Fictional Poets Message-ID: <5c56a.22dc4cfb.3a3ad319@cs.com> In a message dated 12/15/2010 8:24:17 PM Central Standard Time, bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net writes: > Right. Actually one of my favorites despite Marchbanks, and Shaw's > standard bias against romanticism. > > --Bob There is a good movie about a visual poet. It's called Crumb. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From millb at aol.com Wed Dec 15 21:28:20 2010 From: millb at aol.com (Millicent) Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2010 21:28:20 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] The MOST IMPORTANT Po Books of Fall 2010 In-Reply-To: <4D0978CF.4030906@nut-n-but.net> References: <8CD6ABFED663D72-179C-2F03@web-mmc-d10.sysops.aol.com> <4D0978CF.4030906@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <8CD6AE00A1A0A3B-1D34-66D0@webmail-m016.sysops.aol.com> Next? Seriously, at the bottom of the page is a button, just click it to get to the next book. Millicent -----Original Message----- From: Bob Grumman To: NewPoetry List Sent: Wed, Dec 15, 2010 6:26 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] The MOST IMPORTANT Po Books of Fall 2010 On 12/15/2010 5:38 PM, jforjames at aol.com wrote: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/anis-shivani/poetry-most-important-books-2010_b_795312.html#s204813 What do you click to read the whole essay? _______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Rsgwynn1 at cs.com Wed Dec 15 21:28:48 2010 From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com (Rsgwynn1 at cs.com) Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2010 21:28:48 EST Subject: [New-Poetry] Fictional Poets Message-ID: <5c677.3c76845.3a3ad360@cs.com> Re. "Pale Fire": http://www.gingkopress.com/09-lit/vladimir-nabokov-pale-fire.html -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Rsgwynn1 at cs.com Wed Dec 15 21:30:24 2010 From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com (Rsgwynn1 at cs.com) Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2010 21:30:24 EST Subject: [New-Poetry] Hollywood does the poets Message-ID: <5c7d5.62d7f046.3a3ad3c0@cs.com> In a message dated 12/15/2010 8:29:19 PM Central Standard Time, halvard at gmail.com writes: > > Adam Dalgleish, poet and sleuth out of P.D. James. I've enjoyed a couple of these, but other than the author's assertion that A. D. is a poet, there's no evidence whatsoever. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Rsgwynn1 at cs.com Wed Dec 15 21:31:34 2010 From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com (Rsgwynn1 at cs.com) Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2010 21:31:34 EST Subject: [New-Poetry] Fictional Poets Message-ID: <5c8ce.686891f8.3a3ad406@cs.com> In a message dated 12/15/2010 8:29:18 PM Central Standard Time, bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net writes: > Right. Sometimes I think I've let my memory go because of the Internet, > always there to supply what I can't remember. But thanks. I think I tried > Humboldt's Gift but couldn't get through it. > > --Bob > Just like all those poets you haven't read but are quick to dismiss, Bob? :) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Wed Dec 15 21:39:32 2010 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2010 21:39:32 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Hollywood does the poets In-Reply-To: <3ceb0.10b521de.3a3ad216@cs.com> References: <3ceb0.10b521de.3a3ad216@cs.com> Message-ID: <8CD6AE19A7D9811-1370-5B75@webmail-d040.sysops.aol.com> Death in Granada (Andy Garcia as Garcia Lorca) http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0117106/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From c.a.b.daly at gmail.com Wed Dec 15 21:54:54 2010 From: c.a.b.daly at gmail.com (Catherine Daly) Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2010 18:54:54 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] The MOST IMPORTANT Po Books of Fall 2010 In-Reply-To: <8CD6ABFED663D72-179C-2F03@web-mmc-d10.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CD6ABFED663D72-179C-2F03@web-mmc-d10.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: Wow, he's coming along quickly. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Wed Dec 15 21:56:00 2010 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2010 21:56:00 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fictional Poets In-Reply-To: <885892.52298.qm@web55207.mail.re4.yahoo.com> References: <855c6.2fa3c8d2.3a3a88fd@cs.com> <885892.52298.qm@web55207.mail.re4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <8CD6AE3E7C432DF-1370-5E16@webmail-d040.sysops.aol.com> Charlie Mackenzie (aka Mike Meyers).... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ETPRsJ-exZw -----Original Message----- From: stephen russell To: NewPoetry List Sent: Wed, Dec 15, 2010 4:58 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Fictional Poets Ole Tyron Green & that Kill MY Landlord bit, my all time favorite SNL skit. & as far as I'm concerned, when the Buk plays himself, he's playing a fictional character. There's been Oscar Wilde impersonations too. & the beats, lots of docudramas. hell, there was a recent beat retro at the National Gallery. the beat goes on & on & on, it seems ... & i'm ok with that. From: "Rsgwynn1 at cs.com" To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Wed, December 15, 2010 4:11:25 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Fictional Poets In a message dated 12/15/2010 2:47:06 PM Central Standard Time, junction at earthlink.net writes: How about Stephen Daedalus? Virginia Woolf's Orlando? There was also a 1950s novel with a vaguely Dylan Thomasesque poet who gets killed by the dentist, who suspects him of doing the dirty with his wife. And let's not forget Eddie Murphy, as Tyron Green, reciting "Kill My Landlord." _______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jjeffreymail at yahoo.com Wed Dec 15 22:00:03 2010 From: jjeffreymail at yahoo.com (John Jeffrey) Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2010 19:00:03 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] Fictional Poets In-Reply-To: <5c8ce.686891f8.3a3ad406@cs.com> References: <5c8ce.686891f8.3a3ad406@cs.com> Message-ID: <53023.66558.qm@web120502.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Nicholson Baker wrote a book called The Anthologist last year where the main (first person) character is a poet who's having problems writing the introduction to an anthology. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From c.a.b.daly at gmail.com Wed Dec 15 22:08:28 2010 From: c.a.b.daly at gmail.com (Catherine Daly) Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2010 19:08:28 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] Last Wilshberia post for now: I guess I lied In-Reply-To: <4D0926EA.2010602@nut-n-but.net> References: <6c957.1bb15718.3a398b73@cs.com> <4D0901A9.3010806@nut-n-but.net> <4D0926EA.2010602@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: The reason I don't like the idea of different kinds of arts is that it renders the best art -- which to me, engages us wholly, completely -- short shrift. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jjeffreymail at yahoo.com Wed Dec 15 23:10:07 2010 From: jjeffreymail at yahoo.com (John Jeffrey) Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2010 20:10:07 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] Hollywood does the poets In-Reply-To: <8CD6AE19A7D9811-1370-5B75@webmail-d040.sysops.aol.com> References: <3ceb0.10b521de.3a3ad216@cs.com> <8CD6AE19A7D9811-1370-5B75@webmail-d040.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <104400.91295.qm@web120519.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Has anyone mentioned Il Postino? with Neruda played by... hmmm... some actor whose name I can't remember. ________________________________ From: "jforjames at aol.com" To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Wed, December 15, 2010 9:39:32 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Hollywood does the poets Death in Granada (Andy Garcia as Garcia Lorca) http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0117106/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tad at opus40.org Thu Dec 16 02:59:22 2010 From: tad at opus40.org (Tad Richards) Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2010 02:59:22 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Hollywood does the poets In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Joseph Fiennes as Shakespeare, Ronald Colman as Francois Villon On Wed, Dec 15, 2010 at 2:39 PM, Jeff Newberry wrote: > Jim's post got me to thinking: what is your favorite portrayal of a poet > on the big screen. I actually liked DiCaprio as Rimbaud in *Total > Eclipse*. I didn't see *Sylvia*, but someone told me that Paltrow did a > good job with the role. > > --Jeff Newberry > > On Wed, Dec 15, 2010 at 10:21 AM, wrote: > >> >> http://www.firstshowing.net/2010/12/13/first-bw-look-john-cusack-as-edgar-allan-poe-in-the-raven/ >> >> Once upon a midnight dreary, while I pondered, weak and weary? I'm not >> sure how they got it, but The Huffington Post (via MTV) recently debuted the >> first photo (or this just a Photoshop?) of John Cusack as poet Edgar Allen >> Poe in James McTeigue's The Raven. The dark thriller has been shooting >> Europe for the last few months and is a period piece about the last five >> days before Poe's odd death, in which the poet is in pursuit of a serial >> killer whose murders mirror those in his stories. >> >> == >> Celebrity poets... >> http://www.thefrisky.com/post/246-10-celebs-who-played-poets/ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > > > -- > You cannot tell people what to do, you can only tell them parables; and > that is what art really is, particular stories of particular people and > experience, from which each according to his own immediate and peculiar > needs may draw his own conclusion. --W.H. Auden > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tad at opus40.org Thu Dec 16 03:05:57 2010 From: tad at opus40.org (Tad Richards) Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2010 03:05:57 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fictional Poets In-Reply-To: <53023.66558.qm@web120502.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <5c8ce.686891f8.3a3ad406@cs.com> <53023.66558.qm@web120502.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Carlo Marx (Allen Ginsberg) in On The Road, Japhy Ryder (Gary Snyder) in The Dharma Bums. On Wed, Dec 15, 2010 at 10:00 PM, John Jeffrey wrote: > Nicholson Baker wrote a book called The Anthologist last year where the > main (first person) character is a poet who's having problems writing the > introduction to an anthology. > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Thu Dec 16 06:12:52 2010 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2010 06:12:52 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fictional Poets In-Reply-To: <5c8ce.686891f8.3a3ad406@cs.com> References: <5c8ce.686891f8.3a3ad406@cs.com> Message-ID: <4D09F434.1090700@nut-n-but.net> On 12/15/2010 9:31 PM, Rsgwynn1 at cs.com wrote: > In a message dated 12/15/2010 8:29:18 PM Central Standard Time, > bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net writes: >> Right. Sometimes I think I've let my memory go because of the >> Internet, always there to supply what I can't remember. But thanks. >> I think I tried /Humboldt's Gift/ but couldn't get through it. >> >> --Bob > > Just like all those poets you haven't read but are quick to dismiss, > Bob? :) No, I use my super powers on them--and I rarely dismiss them, I merely state that they are our culture's only academy-certified poets. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Thu Dec 16 06:41:05 2010 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2010 06:41:05 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fictional Poets In-Reply-To: <5c56a.22dc4cfb.3a3ad319@cs.com> References: <5c56a.22dc4cfb.3a3ad319@cs.com> Message-ID: <4D09FAD1.5080808@nut-n-but.net> On 12/15/2010 9:27 PM, Rsgwynn1 at cs.com wrote: > In a message dated 12/15/2010 8:24:17 PM Central Standard Time, > bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net writes: >> Right. Actually one of my favorites despite Marchbanks, and Shaw's >> standard bias against romanticism. >> >> --Bob > > > There is a good movie about a visual poet. It's called /Crumb/. Yes, a good movie. No, not about a visual poet but about two cartoonists. Captioned pictures and illustrated texts are not visual poems! He Who Ordains These Things -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Thu Dec 16 06:45:55 2010 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2010 06:45:55 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Last Wilshberia post for now: I guess I lied In-Reply-To: References: <6c957.1bb15718.3a398b73@cs.com><4D0901A9.3010806@nut-n-but.net><4D0926EA.2010602@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <4D09FBF3.4080501@nut-n-but.net> On 12/15/2010 10:08 PM, Catherine Daly wrote: > The reason I don't like the idea of different kinds of arts is that it > renders the best art -- which to me, engages us wholly, completely -- > short shrift. I'm afraid I don't follow you, Catherine. What do you mean by "art," abd how can saying there's painting and there's music, or there're haiku and there're sonnets "render the best art . . . short shrift?" I'd add that calling some art "the best art" is indicating that it is different from some other kind of art. --Bob From carol.dorf at gmail.com Thu Dec 16 09:15:31 2010 From: carol.dorf at gmail.com (carol dorf) Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2010 06:15:31 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] The MOST IMPORTANT Po Books of Fall 2010 In-Reply-To: References: <8CD6ABFED663D72-179C-2F03@web-mmc-d10.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: Somehow, I like that there are 17 on the list -- no arbitrary limit, but one reader's picks (whether or not each of us would have a different list.) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at gmail.com Thu Dec 16 09:41:45 2010 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2010 08:41:45 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Whitman & Lincoln Message-ID: Whitman's notebook facsimilied. http://documents.nytimes.com/walt-whitman-and-abraham-lincoln Hal "A sudden silence in the middle of a conversation suddenly brings us back to essentials: it reveals how dearly we must pay for the invention of speech." --E. M. Cioran Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home *Mainly Black , **Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ;* *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; * ***Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; * ***G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; * *Transparencies & Projections * -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From c.a.b.daly at gmail.com Thu Dec 16 11:57:21 2010 From: c.a.b.daly at gmail.com (Catherine Daly) Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2010 08:57:21 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] Last Wilshberia post for now: I guess I lied In-Reply-To: <4D09FBF3.4080501@nut-n-but.net> References: <6c957.1bb15718.3a398b73@cs.com> <4D0901A9.3010806@nut-n-but.net> <4D0926EA.2010602@nut-n-but.net> <4D09FBF3.4080501@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: A good poem has sound and visuals, and poems are only good if they have both. So a "visual poem" is extremely limited if it has no sound, a "sound poem" limited w/o any sort of transcription. Likewise, a piece of music with bad lyrics or an instrumental -- even improvised -- with no pattern whatever is not good. In other words, quality comes from more complete engagement of senses used to experience the work. Catherine -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From amyhappens at yahoo.com Thu Dec 16 12:15:17 2010 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king) Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2010 09:15:17 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: Chax Press toward 2011 Message-ID: <345100.10219.qm@web83307.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: charles alexander Dear Poetry Readers and Friends of Chax Press: Poetry, for me, is a community of writers, readers, ideas, words, shapes, and sounds arranged or just appearing in space and time in such a way as to invite others to enter, to open the spaces words occupy. In this way, the work of Chax Press is part of this poetic endeavor, as well as a practice that expands and deepens the community of contemporary literature. Chax is once again binding up a year rich in print. Our hand bound volume of Drum Hadley?s poems has been published, and pages of words and machine images by Nico Vassilakis are on the Vandercook Press as I write this. We are about to complete a year with lots of good news, like our summer Book Arts Workshop, and some fourteen book publications, including books by Alice Notley, Leslie Scalapino, Charles Olson, Tenney Nathanson, Jonathan Stalling, and many more. We hope for a satisfying end of one year and beginning of the next, the kind that makes you fold the covers shut and sigh in satisfaction. Our story keeps unfolding thanks to your contributions. Community and innovation are our central threads, and the language we use to connect the Chax community to all our friends is both of the streets and land and of the highest spire. Our upcoming books, that you will help to print with your contribution, come from diverse voices: Nico Vassilakis, Will Alexander, Eileen Myles, Andrew Levy, Linh Dinh, Jennifer Bartlett, Robert Mittenthal, Maureen Owen, and others that together form a distinct, unreplicated corps of authors whose work needs to be present in our time. At Chax, we fill a need for work that challenges, thrills, and brings together our longtime readers and those new to our community. To keep our downtown studio full of deckled edges, smoothly running rollers, and deftly stitching fingers, as well as new paperback books of poetry flying out of our studio and into the minds of readers, we rely on a wide variety of sources, such as grants, book sales, and contributions from you. Increasingly individual contributions, in a time of dwindling government support, perform a large and heartwarming role in our work in the fields of poetry and the book arts. We ask that you prioritize a donation to Chax Press this year. No amount of giving is too small or too large. For every gift over $60, we will even send you one of our earliest books, chosen specifically with you in mind. Friends through the computer (facebook, email, etc) last year were an important part of what we did, and how we were able to fund our work. You gave gifts ranging from $6 to $100. If each of you gave even $10, we'd be in good shape, the books would keep coming. We hope you will give $10 or more now. It will do wonders. But any amount you can give is most welcome. We thank you and honor you with our work. Chax Press is a nonprofit 501(c)(3) charitable organization, and your contribution is tax deductible. To donate via paypal, go to http://chax.org/donate.htm Or send a check to Chax Press, 411 N 7th Ave Ste 103, Tucson, AZ 85705 Charles Alexander, Executive Director Chax Press charles alexander chax at theriver.com chax press / poetry & the book arts 411 n seventh ave ste 103 / tucson, az 85705-8388 presenting Erica Hunt and Marty Ehrlich on Jan 29 2011 attending AWP in February 2011 DONATE TO CHAX PRESS at http://chax.org/donate.htm ********* VIDA: Women in Literary Arts + Interviews Amy's Alias + http://amyking.org/ ******** -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ccooley at overdomain.com Thu Dec 16 13:01:58 2010 From: ccooley at overdomain.com (Crisman Cooley) Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2010 10:01:58 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] Last Wishberia post for now:... Message-ID: I think Catherine is objecting to categorizing art by Expression Plane (your saw), and advancing an esthetic distinction on the Content Plane. Esthetic distinctions are much more complicated, but ultimately much more satisfying on the rare occasion when they are met. > Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2010 06:45:55 -0500 > From: Bob Grumman > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Last Wilshberia post for now: I guess I lied > > On 12/15/2010 10:08 PM, Catherine Daly wrote: > > The reason I don't like the idea of different kinds of arts is that it > > renders the best art -- which to me, engages us wholly, completely -- > > short shrift. > I'm afraid I don't follow you, Catherine. What do you mean by "art," > abd how can saying there's painting and there's music, or there're haiku > and there're sonnets "render the best art . . . short shrift?" I'd add > that calling some art "the best art" is indicating that it is different > from some other kind of art. > > --Bob > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Thu Dec 16 13:41:26 2010 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2010 13:41:26 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] WorldPo: Barry Spurr appointed to poetry & poetics chair, U. of Sydney Message-ID: <8CD6B67FAFC6FFF-A1C-3B60@webmail-m057.sysops.aol.com> http://www.smh.com.au/entertainment/books/elevated-chair-for-a-man-of-poetry-20101216-18zj1.html Elevated chair for a man of poetry by Erik Jensen December 17, 2010 Barry Spurr ... a voice made for reading poetry. IT SEEMS fitting that the first person in Australia to hold a professorial chair in poetry and poetics draws on Wordsworth for his job description: ''The only way to read a poet is to love him.'' Professor Barry Spurr, who was appointed to the position at the University of Sydney this week, is a traditionalist. He has a voice like drought - dry and expansive - and made for reading poetry. He has spoken, without notes, to thousands of undergraduates, breaking frequently into long recitations. His voice has been raised occasionally to criticise post-modern texts, dress standards, illiterate first-year students and Australians' idolatry of sport. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Thu Dec 16 14:56:37 2010 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2010 14:56:37 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] The MOST IMPORTANT Po Books of Fall 2010 In-Reply-To: <8CD6ADFB83ADB18-1370-594C@webmail-d040.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CD6ABFED663D72-179C-2F03@web-mmc-d10.sysops.aol.com><4D0978CF.4030906@nut-n-but.net> <8CD6ADFB83ADB18-1370-594C@webmail-d040.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <4D0A6EF5.4070401@nut-n-but.net> On 12/15/2010 9:26 PM, jforjames at aol.com wrote: > If you click the arrow you go forward title to title. Just squib per > book, not really an essay. Thanks, James. It still took me a while to figure it out. Too many arrows. Just so everyone will know it's not only the Poetry Establishment I complained about, I wanna say I don't like the Huffington Post lay-out, and the many websites like it. Am I the only one that thinks most websites squeeze too much gunk and gawdry onto the screen? --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Thu Dec 16 14:59:21 2010 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2010 14:59:21 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Hollywood does the poets In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8CD6B72DD5A40AA-18D8-11ECC@webmail-m077.sysops.aol.com> In the "Shakespeare in Love," you forgot the small role of Kit Marlowe (potrayed by charismatic Rupert Everett). -----Original Message----- From: Tad Richards To: NewPoetry List Sent: Thu, Dec 16, 2010 2:59 am Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Hollywood does the poets Joseph Fiennes as Shakespeare, Ronald Colman as Francois Villon On Wed, Dec 15, 2010 at 2:39 PM, Jeff Newberry wrote: Jim's post got me to thinking: what is your favorite portrayal of a poet on the big screen. I actually liked DiCaprio as Rimbaud in *Total Eclipse*. I didn't see *Sylvia*, but someone told me that Paltrow did a good job with the role. --Jeff Newberry On Wed, Dec 15, 2010 at 10:21 AM, wrote: http://www.firstshowing.net/2010/12/13/first-bw-look-john-cusack-as-edgar-allan-poe-in-the-raven/ Once upon a midnight dreary, while I pondered, weak and weary? I'm not sure how they got it, but The Huffington Post (via MTV) recently debuted the first photo (or this just a Photoshop?) of John Cusack as poet Edgar Allen Poe in James McTeigue's The Raven. The dark thriller has been shooting Europe for the last few months and is a period piece about the last five days before Poe's odd death, in which the poet is in pursuit of a serial killer whose murders mirror those in his stories. == Celebrity poets... http://www.thefrisky.com/post/246-10-celebs-who-played-poets/ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -- You cannot tell people what to do, you can only tell them parables; and that is what art really is, particular stories of particular people and experience, from which each according to his own immediate and peculiar needs may draw his own conclusion. --W.H. Auden _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Thu Dec 16 15:20:32 2010 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2010 15:20:32 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Last Wilshberia post for now: I guess I lied In-Reply-To: References: <6c957.1bb15718.3a398b73@cs.com><4D0901A9.3010806@nut-n-but.net> <4D0926EA.2010602@nut-n-but.net><4D09FBF3.4080501@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <4D0A7490.10903@nut-n-but.net> On 12/16/2010 11:57 AM, Catherine Daly wrote: > A good poem has sound and visuals, I feel there's a significant difference between verbal sound, which all poems have and the sound in a sound poem, and between the visual imagery that most poems have (but need not have to be good, it doesn't seem to me) and graphics. Or are you saying print is visual, which it is, but not with any aesthetic effect. In fact, I claim we don't ordinarily see words, we read them--they go through the eye to the reading center of the brain, not to the visual center. > and poems are only good if they have both. So a "visual poem" is > extremely limited if it has no sound, It has to have verbal sound to be a poem. > a "sound poem" limited w/o any sort of transcription. I don't know what you mean here. > Likewise, a piece of music with bad lyrics or an instrumental -- even > improvised -- with no pattern whatever is not good. In other words, > quality comes from more complete engagement of senses used to > experience the work. I dunno. Sounds like you're saying pure music or a graphic without words is limited, which doesn't make sense. --Bob From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Thu Dec 16 15:24:55 2010 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2010 15:24:55 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: Chax Press toward 2011 In-Reply-To: <345100.10219.qm@web83307.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: <345100.10219.qm@web83307.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4D0A7597.9030702@nut-n-but.net> This is one of very few presses as well-known as it that has the Bob seal of approval--but not, alas, any of Bob's money, because he's broker than broke. --Bob From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Thu Dec 16 15:31:31 2010 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2010 15:31:31 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Last Wishberia post for now:... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4D0A7723.9040600@nut-n-but.net> On 12/16/2010 1:01 PM, Crisman Cooley wrote: > I think Catherine is objecting to categorizing art by Expression Plane > (your saw), and advancing an esthetic distinction on the Content > Plane. Esthetic distinctions are much more complicated, but ultimately > much more satisfying on the rare occasion when they are met. Sorry, Crisman, I'm not following you too well, either. Seems to me the only criticism one can make of any categorization is that it fails importantly to distinguish one kind of whatever from another. It's not supposed to be satisfying, it's supposed to be accurate and useful for distinguishing things. Bit I strongly suspect I'm talking past you. --Bob From junction at earthlink.net Thu Dec 16 16:04:09 2010 From: junction at earthlink.net (Mark Weiss) Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2010 16:04:09 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: Chax Press toward 2011 In-Reply-To: <4D0A7597.9030702@nut-n-but.net> References: <345100.10219.qm@web83307.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <4D0A7597.9030702@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: Mine, too. Though the release should have mentioned my As Landscape, which they published. Best, Mark At 03:24 PM 12/16/2010, you wrote: >This is one of very few presses as well-known as >it that has the Bob seal of approval--but not, >alas, any of Bob's money, because he's broker than broke. > >--Bob >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry New from Chax Press: Mark Weiss, As Landscape. $16. Order from http://www.chax.org/poets/weiss.htm "What a beautiful set of circumstances! What a lovely concatenation of particulars. Here is the poet alive in every sense of the word, and through every one of his senses. Instead of missing a beat or a part, Weiss? fragments are like Chekhov?s short stories?the more that gets left out, the more they seem to contain One can hear echoes from all the various ancestors...[but] the voice, at its center, its core, is pure Mark Weiss. His use of the fragment is both elegant and bafflingly clear, a pure musical threnody [it] opens a window, not only into a mind, but a person, a personality, this human figure at the emotional center of the poem." M.G. Stephens, in Jacket. http://jacketmagazine.com/40/r-weiss-rb-stephens.shtml -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From barry.spacks at verizon.net Thu Dec 16 16:14:27 2010 From: barry.spacks at verizon.net (Barry Spacks) Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2010 13:14:27 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] throw the net wide In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Dec 16, 2010, at 9:00 AM, Catherine Daly wrote: > > The reason I don't like the idea of different kinds of arts is that it > renders the best art -- which to me, engages us wholly, completely > -- short > shrift. Here hear! From halvard at gmail.com Thu Dec 16 17:50:07 2010 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2010 16:50:07 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] throw the net wide In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: You actually understood her, Barry, or are you just faking it? Hal "A sudden silence in the middle of a conversation suddenly brings us back to essentials: it reveals how dearly we must pay for the invention of speech." --E. M. Cioran Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home *Mainly Black , **Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ;* *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; * ***Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; * ***G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; * *Transparencies & Projections * On Thu, Dec 16, 2010 at 3:14 PM, Barry Spacks wrote: > > On Dec 16, 2010, at 9:00 AM, Catherine Daly wrote: > >> >> The reason I don't like the idea of different kinds of arts is that it >> renders the best art -- which to me, engages us wholly, completely -- >> short >> shrift. >> > > Here hear! > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From barry.spacks at verizon.net Thu Dec 16 18:15:55 2010 From: barry.spacks at verizon.net (Barry Spacks) Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2010 15:15:55 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] Wide Fields In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <196A03A6-9AB6-4B4B-9DDC-2A41A15E44BC@verizon.net> On Dec 16, 2010, at 2:50 PM, Hal wrote: > > You actually understood her, Barry, or are > you just faking it? > Mostly I'm passing and faking it, friend-Hal, but when it comes to words that speak against cutting up the arts into neat piles of lunch meat I'm right there applauding from the sidelines as a peripheral Omnist practitioner (you were talking about lunch meat, weren't you, Catherine?). Break open the gates, the fields are wide, Barry From halvard at gmail.com Thu Dec 16 18:48:31 2010 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2010 17:48:31 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Wide Fields In-Reply-To: <196A03A6-9AB6-4B4B-9DDC-2A41A15E44BC@verizon.net> References: <196A03A6-9AB6-4B4B-9DDC-2A41A15E44BC@verizon.net> Message-ID: No borders! Tear down the walls! The fences! Huzzah! Hal "A sudden silence in the middle of a conversation suddenly brings us back to essentials: it reveals how dearly we must pay for the invention of speech." --E. M. Cioran Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home *Mainly Black , **Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ;* *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; * ***Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; * ***G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; * *Transparencies & Projections * On Thu, Dec 16, 2010 at 5:15 PM, Barry Spacks wrote: > > On Dec 16, 2010, at 2:50 PM, Hal wrote: > >> >> You actually understood her, Barry, or are >> you just faking it? >> >> Mostly I'm passing and faking it, friend-Hal, > but when it comes to words that speak > against cutting up the arts into neat piles > of lunch meat I'm right there applauding > from the sidelines as a peripheral Omnist > practitioner (you were talking about lunch > meat, weren't you, Catherine?). > > Break open the gates, the fields are wide, > > Barry > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From millb at aol.com Thu Dec 16 19:13:19 2010 From: millb at aol.com (Millicent) Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2010 19:13:19 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] just in time for Christmas! In-Reply-To: References: <196A03A6-9AB6-4B4B-9DDC-2A41A15E44BC@verizon.net> Message-ID: <8CD6B96581D3896-157C-3BA5@webmail-m079.sysops.aol.com> Had to share! Sorry in advance for posting (if it is not appropriate) My full-length poetry book JUST came out, Injuring Eternity is now available at Barnes and Noble and Amazon. Shiny and spiny and new. I'm grateful for your support and spreading the word. Please feel free to distribute the good news-- Sample poems below. Thanks, Millicent http://productsearch.barnesandnoble.com/search/results.aspx?WRD=injuring+eternity&page=index&prod=univ&choice=allproducts&query=injuring+eternity&flag=False&r=1&ugrp=1 Mourning Doves Have such soulful Eyes, their gray suit Of feathers blurs and sinks Them into the background Like a creature in hiding. They hover below the wild Bird feeder set up for finches And harvest the shells, the thistle Seed casings and what drops after The finches and faux robins and phoebes Have feasted. The mourning Doves huddle and nest in the mountains Of seed shells and dirt and make circles With their small bird bodies turning Into the ground digging a place around Them as if they were under a shrub with only The black drops of ink from their tail feathers Visible. In a group, they lie in wait, their dear gray Eyes gloomy and sullen and innocent and they want What the world desires, to be fed and comfortable And consummated and happy. Devotion to the Breath I love you shallow. I love you deep. I love you in three parts and when you come in like a lion And leave like ice. Clear and lucid as a thought, And unfelt in the night and tightened When I am nervous or frightened. But you always are there For me; in junior high, my lungs Ached with the growth of adolescence So painful the tissues rapidly growing in my body, Three inches in height one year played havoc On my chest. I take you in as new and shiny and promisey, And full of dope, and I let you go and ease Out of all the old and ancient and dusty: Long kept rooms full of fears and relatives I do not know any more, the mustiness of old Dreams lost before they were even a thought. Mornings, you come in thick and heavy And close to my skin, so heavy that coughs And grumbles are necessary to bring you up and over And through my various allergies that have Followed me through bed, cuddling my brain And looking for a safe home when I was unaware. Evenings you are quiet and sit still for the air As it comes over my throat and whispers to me, ?Later, lover, later.? Without you I would not press through Versions and divisions and passageways. Breath, without you I would not be able to fly or To swim in the world of language and gauge The value of love and forgiveness. I am dumb and easy and always here for you. All my words are written between your punctuation. Somewhere Ahead a Man is Waiting He wants to see you But not to talk. He has other Things on his mind: maybe mystery, Maybe evil. There is a road And a broken phone and the shell Of an Enco gas station that closed 30 years ago. This man thinks He knows what is best. This man Imagines himself stronger than you Are, with your lost face and open map Of a mouth. He knows that the signs Are all there but twisted like dead Birds in a storm or a young American Girl who knots her pony tail and then Nibbles on the end. At the dusky Caf?, this man is standing by himself Having given up the right to ordinary Talk with others long ago. He knows What he wants now. He looks at his Shoes. There is a song called by Her name he used to know Before he was alone. The bird Of paradise only blooms when its roots Are crowded. He steps forward. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Thu Dec 16 19:33:22 2010 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2010 19:33:22 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] throw the net wide In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4D0AAFD2.2000806@nut-n-but.net> On 12/16/2010 4:14 PM, Barry Spacks wrote: > > On Dec 16, 2010, at 9:00 AM, Catherine Daly wrote: >> >> The reason I don't like the idea of different kinds of arts is that it >> renders the best art -- which to me, engages us wholly, completely -- >> short >> shrift. > > Here hear! Who wants different kinds of food, either. Or different kinds of anything. --Bob From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Thu Dec 16 19:43:00 2010 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2010 19:43:00 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Wide Fields In-Reply-To: <196A03A6-9AB6-4B4B-9DDC-2A41A15E44BC@verizon.net> References: <196A03A6-9AB6-4B4B-9DDC-2A41A15E44BC@verizon.net> Message-ID: <4D0AB214.4020604@nut-n-but.net> On 12/16/2010 6:15 PM, Barry Spacks wrote: > > On Dec 16, 2010, at 2:50 PM, Hal wrote: >> >> You actually understood her, Barry, or are >> you just faking it? >> > Mostly I'm passing and faking it, friend-Hal, > but when it comes to words that speak > against cutting up the arts into neat piles > of lunch meat I'm right there applauding > from the sidelines as a peripheral Omnist > practitioner (you were talking about lunch > meat, weren't you, Catherine?). > > Break open the gates, the fields are wide, > > Barry Barry, just because once a kind of poem was called a haiku to distinguish it from another kind of poem called a sonnet caused ten thousand sonneteers and six thousand haijin (makers of haiku--established term, not mine) to commit suicide and has to this day prevent anyone from trying to compose either kind of poem doesn't mean that all cutting up the arts into neat piles of lunch meat will always have that effect, Barry. After all, people are still painting pictures and making statues even though, some swine made up names for each of the two major forms of visual art. --Bob From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Thu Dec 16 20:12:12 2010 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2010 20:12:12 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] The Only Good Books of Poetry Published in 2010 In-Reply-To: <4D0AB214.4020604@nut-n-but.net> References: <196A03A6-9AB6-4B4B-9DDC-2A41A15E44BC@verizon.net> <4D0AB214.4020604@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <4D0AB8EC.3050007@nut-n-but.net> /This Is Visual Poetry/ by Ed Baker, one of a series, all with the same title, published by chapbook publisher. /This Is Visual Poetry/ by Scott Helmes. I've decided this list is essential because lists of the best books of a year don't tell us whether the books on them are any good, only that they are better than any other of the year. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Thu Dec 16 20:19:23 2010 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2010 20:19:23 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] The Only Good Books of Poetry Published in 2010 In-Reply-To: <4D0AB8EC.3050007@nut-n-but.net> References: <196A03A6-9AB6-4B4B-9DDC-2A41A15E44BC@verizon.net><4D0AB214.402 0604@nut-n-but.net> <4D0AB8EC.3050007@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <4D0ABA9B.3060106@nut-n-but.net> I left /This Is Visual Poetry /by K. S. Ernst, and /This Is Visual Poetry /by Marilyn Rosenberg off my list because their authors are both women and I wanted to give Amy King another case of Gross Injustice to complain about. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From c.a.b.daly at gmail.com Thu Dec 16 20:37:53 2010 From: c.a.b.daly at gmail.com (Catherine Daly) Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2010 17:37:53 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] Last Wilshberia post for now: I guess I lied In-Reply-To: <4D0A7490.10903@nut-n-but.net> References: <6c957.1bb15718.3a398b73@cs.com> <4D0901A9.3010806@nut-n-but.net> <4D0926EA.2010602@nut-n-but.net> <4D09FBF3.4080501@nut-n-but.net> <4D0A7490.10903@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: ... and between the visual imagery that most poems have (but need not have to be good, it doesn't seem to me) and graphics. Or are you saying print is visual, which it is, but not with any aesthetic effect. I disagree. Also, an "entry level" crit, even in Ashberia, rapidly questions the sonnet / haiku / quatrain "because that's the only poetry we know" poem, as well as the angel baby poem. All best, Catherine -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From junction at earthlink.net Thu Dec 16 20:57:41 2010 From: junction at earthlink.net (Mark Weiss) Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2010 20:57:41 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Last Wilshberia post for now: I guess I lied In-Reply-To: References: <6c957.1bb15718.3a398b73@cs.com> <4D0901A9.3010806@nut-n-but.net> <4D0926EA.2010602@nut-n-but.net> <4D09FBF3.4080501@nut-n-but.net> <4D0A7490.10903@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: Catherine: re this and your last, have I gone over the edge into senility, or are you playing out a strategy, or just playing? Because I can usually follow your thought, but for the life of me I don't know what you're saying. Best, Mark At 08:37 PM 12/16/2010, you wrote: >... and between the visual imagery that most >poems have (but need not have to be good, it >doesn't seem to me) and graphics. Or are you >saying print is visual, which it is, but not with any aesthetic effect. > >I disagree. Also, an "entry level" crit, even >in Ashberia, rapidly questions the sonnet / >haiku / quatrain "because that's the only poetry >we know" poem, as well as the angel baby poem. > >All best, >Catherine > >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry New from Chax Press: Mark Weiss, As Landscape. $16. Order from http://www.chax.org/poets/weiss.htm "What a beautiful set of circumstances! What a lovely concatenation of particulars. Here is the poet alive in every sense of the word, and through every one of his senses. Instead of missing a beat or a part, Weiss? fragments are like Chekhov?s short stories?the more that gets left out, the more they seem to contain One can hear echoes from all the various ancestors...[but] the voice, at its center, its core, is pure Mark Weiss. His use of the fragment is both elegant and bafflingly clear, a pure musical threnody [it] opens a window, not only into a mind, but a person, a personality, this human figure at the emotional center of the poem." M.G. Stephens, in Jacket. http://jacketmagazine.com/40/r-weiss-rb-stephens.shtml -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chris at chrislott.org Fri Dec 17 02:04:38 2010 From: chris at chrislott.org (Chris Lott) Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2010 22:04:38 -0900 Subject: [New-Poetry] The Only Good Books of Poetry Published in 2010 In-Reply-To: <4D0AB8EC.3050007@nut-n-but.net> References: <196A03A6-9AB6-4B4B-9DDC-2A41A15E44BC@verizon.net> <4D0AB214.4020604@nut-n-but.net> <4D0AB8EC.3050007@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: Yes, because this is what, in Bob's world, someone said lists were for and good for. Do you ever get tired of building those strange straw men? c On Thu, Dec 16, 2010 at 4:12 PM, Bob Grumman wrote: > This Is Visual Poetry by Ed Baker, one of a series, all with the same title, > published by chapbook publisher. > > This Is Visual Poetry by Scott Helmes. > > I've decided this list is essential because lists of the best books of a > year don't tell us whether the books on them are any good, only that they > are better than any other of the year. > > --Bob > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Fri Dec 17 06:51:02 2010 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Fri, 17 Dec 2010 06:51:02 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] The Only Good Books of Poetry Published in 2010 In-Reply-To: References: <196A03A6-9AB6-4B4B-9DDC-2A41A15E44BC@verizon.net><4D0AB214.402 0604@nut-n-but.net> <4D0AB8EC.3050007@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <4D0B4EA6.4020606@nut-n-but.net> On 12/17/2010 2:04 AM, Chris Lott wrote: > Yes, because this is what, in Bob's world, someone said lists were for > and good for. Do you ever get tired of building those strange straw > men? > > c No, Chris, I don't. But this wasn't a straw man, this was a plain joke. A joke in more than one way, in fact--one of them being to allow me to ask you, when you complained, why you couldn't realize that I was just making a list of favorites, and couldn't mean what the title of my list meant? --Bob From ccooley at overdomain.com Fri Dec 17 15:17:39 2010 From: ccooley at overdomain.com (Crisman Cooley) Date: Fri, 17 Dec 2010 12:17:39 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] Last Wishberia post for now:... Message-ID: Bit your suspicion is unfounded. > Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2010 15:31:31 -0500 > From: Bob Grumman > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Last Wishberia post for now:... > > On 12/16/2010 1:01 PM, Crisman Cooley wrote: > > I think Catherine is objecting to categorizing art by Expression Plane > > (your saw), and advancing an esthetic distinction on the Content > > Plane. Esthetic distinctions are much more complicated, but ultimately > > much more satisfying on the rare occasion when they are met. > > Sorry, Crisman, I'm not following you too well, either. Seems to me the > only criticism one can make of any categorization is that it fails > importantly to distinguish one kind of whatever from another. It's not > supposed to be satisfying, it's supposed to be accurate and useful for > distinguishing things. > > Bit I strongly suspect I'm talking past you. > > --Bob > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd at ripon.edu Fri Dec 17 15:46:36 2010 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Fri, 17 Dec 2010 14:46:36 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Anis Shivani is at it again Message-ID: <825197A2-0FB2-4A3C-8628-E368D3D25DC4@ripon.edu> This time, he asked 22 contemporary American poets who they would name as "the most important contemporary poet." http://www.huffingtonpost.com/anis-shivani/most-important-contemporary-poet_b_797050.html#s209352 Many cannot limit themselves to just one name, and their comments are a thicket of quibbles and qualifications, naturally. Fun reading, though. I believe the only poet to receive multiple nominations is, unsurprisingly, John Ashbery. For what it's worth--nothing--there is no poet named that I haven't at least read. Whew! ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.me.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Fri Dec 17 16:06:32 2010 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Fri, 17 Dec 2010 22:06:32 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] The MOST IMPORTANT Po Books of Fall 2010 In-Reply-To: <4D0A6EF5.4070401@nut-n-but.net> References: <8CD6ABFED663D72-179C-2F03@web-mmc-d10.sysops.aol.com> <4D0978CF.4030906@nut-n-but.net> <8CD6ADFB83ADB18-1370-594C@webmail-d040.sysops.aol.com> <4D0A6EF5.4070401@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: I think the author is right here: Pound...sets the interpretive bar for his poem very high indeed; for today's less classically educated student, an annotated edition such as this should at least help fill in some of the blanks within Pound's ellipses while providing translations of key quotations from his Library of Babel." About his Cantos, Sieburth is right to say that "Pound manages to invent a poetic language that always hovers somewhere in between its original historical sources and its contemporary twentieth-century articulation." The other poets on this list of contemporary poets are inconceivable without the revolution Pound wrought. On Thu, Dec 16, 2010 at 8:56 PM, Bob Grumman wrote: > On 12/15/2010 9:26 PM, jforjames at aol.com wrote: > > If you click the arrow you go forward title to title. Just squib per book, > not really an essay. > > Thanks, James. It still took me a while to figure it out. Too many > arrows. Just so everyone will know it's not only the Poetry Establishment I > complained about, I wanna say I don't like the Huffington Post lay-out, and > the many websites like it. Am I the only one that thinks most websites > squeeze too much gunk and gawdry onto the screen? > > --Bob > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From barry.spacks at verizon.net Fri Dec 17 15:50:03 2010 From: barry.spacks at verizon.net (Barry Spacks) Date: Fri, 17 Dec 2010 12:50:03 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] saying the obvious yet again In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4DE236AA-437E-41FD-938C-390EC6D55C24@verizon.net> On Dec 16, 2010, at 5:37 PM, Bob G. wrote: > After all, people are still painting pictures > and making statues even though, some swine made up names for each of > the > two major forms of visual art. > The problem lies with politically motivated name-calling declared to be merely descriptively taxonomic, as you well know, Bob, being the local master of the process. I'm all for the value-free Periodic Table, and for convenience one might wish to categorize this or that as sculpture versus painting (though in these post-modern, kaleidoscopic days in the visual as well as other arts -- v. environments, use of video, performances -- generic lines are wildly crossed. You'd think it would suit your purposes to declare lesser known styles and effects at home under the single generic category "Poetry." Sure, call a sonnet a sonnet, no party-line value judgement implied (though even here what to do with 15-line sonnets, unrhymed sonnets, curtal poems achieving sonnet-like effects? Oddities?). I was entirely serious in suggesting -- if one must cut and dice -- Poetry / Oddities as a less proscriptive scheme (even make that Art / Oddities) than those you so persistently strive to enforce. It's the not so hidden sneer in the labeling, Bob, that gets some folks stirred up in the age of Fox and the perfection of the Big Lie theory of power-sway. yearning to be able to sign off "respectfully," Barry From jforjames at aol.com Fri Dec 17 19:55:47 2010 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Fri, 17 Dec 2010 19:55:47 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Another best list Message-ID: <8CD6C657164FD88-1AE4-A834@webmail-m100.sysops.aol.com> http://notellpoetry.blogspot.com/2010/12/best-poetry-books-of-2010-lee-ann.html -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Fri Dec 17 20:25:55 2010 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Fri, 17 Dec 2010 20:25:55 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] saying the obvious yet again In-Reply-To: <4DE236AA-437E-41FD-938C-390EC6D55C24@verizon.net> References: <4DE236AA-437E-41FD-938C-390EC6D55C24@verizon.net> Message-ID: <4D0C0DA3.8050908@nut-n-but.net> > The problem lies with politically motivated name-calling declared > to be merely descriptively taxonomic, as you well know, Bob, being > the local master of the process. > Be fair, Barry. At one time you agreed that I was doing my best to have neutral names for my taxonomy, and asked for suggestions for ones more neutral than mine. None were forthcoming. I even dropped "burstnorm poetry" because some were offended by it. I came to believe that no term would offend no one. I now start with Poetry and divide it in two categories: linguexpressive poetry and pluraesthetic poetry, representing poetry of words only, and poetry of words and averbal components, like graphics. I consider the two groups vastly and emphatically more different from each other than any other two groups one could divided poetry into. But both groups do far more with the expressive potential of words than prose does--and, I claim, will eventually be shown to do very similar things in the verbal areas of the brain--so should both be called poetry (as they have been for over a hundred years). If anyone can tell me of a division that makes more sense (aside from excluding all texts that mix expressive modalities), I would love to hear about it. My terms are awkward, but so are many taxonomical terms (e.g., "psychopathology") that don't bother people. Still, feel free to suggest better. "Wilshberia" is not in my taxonomy. But it's purely descriptive albeit I use it polemically. All the kinds of poetry on the poetry continuum from Wilbur's very formal verse to Ashbery's very jump-cutting verse. There are many kinds of poetry not on this part of the continuum, including most language poetry, genuine language poetry. > I'm all for the value-free Periodic Table, Oh, You don't think "inert gases" is scandalously offensive? > and for convenience one might wish to categorize this or that as > sculpture versus painting (though in these > post-modern, kaleidoscopic days in the visual as well as other > arts -- v. environments, use of video, performances -- generic lines > are wildly crossed. It's rare that one art-form doesn't dominate. And it's almost always easy to make an arbitrary but intelligent divisions--for example, call anything (significantly) 3-D sculpture. What's significantly 3-D may be subjective, but I think most people could agree 99% of the time whether some kind of 3-D is (taxonomically) significant or not. The fact that acrylics can have built-up areas of paint and thin areas can be aesthetically important, but is not significant taxonomically. Greek statues in their origninal painted state were not taxonomically significantly painted. > > > You'd think it would suit your purposes to declare lesser known > styles and effects at home under the single generic category "Poetry." That's what my taxonomy does. The problem for academics like David is that I want to start with much more called poetry than academics have even slight understanding of, so naturally want to dismiss. > Sure, call a sonnet a sonnet, no party-line value judgement implied > (though even here what to do with 15-line sonnets, unrhymed sonnets, > curtal poems achieving sonnet-like effects? Oddities?). > There are always outriders, but 15-line pseudo-sonnets are easy enough to classify, though at that low level of classification, I don't bother with names. 15-liners would be a good name. 14-liner for certain 14-line free verse poems their authors and other nullinguists want to call sonnets. > I was entirely serious in suggesting -- if one must cut and dice -- > Poetry / Oddities as a less proscriptive scheme (even make that > Art / Oddities) than those you so persistently strive to enforce. > Only an insane person can consider my taxonomy "proscriptive." Obviously a taxonomist must require the members of a category he proposes to fit some definition. A definition that must be enforced. I can't say a sonnet is a 14-line poem that can have any number of lines if I want to place it effectively in a taxonomy. In any case, where I put it in my taxonomy and how I define it is irrelevant to the practice of poets. Except neurotic ones. As for making visual poetry not poetry, I have arguments against that. A good one is that eventually oddists who make works that equal the best work of poets verbally and the best work of painters graphically will get the prestige that the term, "poet," has now, and make the segreceptuals (people who want to keep their art pure by preventing mixtures of arts) feel bad. ("Segreceptual" is a polemical term.) A very good practical one against it is that all the attention (like antholigzation) and money is going to what you call poetry, So marginalization is the result. It's not fair. Unless some critic can show that Ashbery's poetry is better than Scott Helmes's--or even than mine. But what established critic would, or could. Some understanding of non-Wilsberian poetry would be required, and a lot of courage, since simply comparing the two would dignify the practice of people not members of the club. > It's the not so hidden sneer in the labeling, Bob, that gets some > folks stirred up in the age of Fox and the perfection of the Big Lie > theory of power-sway. > Right. No sneers at NBC, those wonderfully neutral observers. I certainly do use terms polemically, but not in my taxonomy. And even when used polemically, I use them accurately, with clear definitions. "Neonecropetry," for instance, has the clear definition of poetry modeled entirely on the poetry of dead poets. It's a term meant to annoy those who think only that kind of poetry is worth consideration. It, of course, is not wholly negative, since there's nothing wrong with modeling a poem on the poetry of dead poets, and fine poems can result. But there is something wrong with believing only such poems are any good, or are even poems. --Bob From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Sat Dec 18 08:09:14 2010 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sat, 18 Dec 2010 14:09:14 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Hos Message-ID: sometimes offers excellent music http://www.hos.com/# -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Sat Dec 18 09:20:25 2010 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sat, 18 Dec 2010 15:20:25 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Anis Shivani is at it again In-Reply-To: <825197A2-0FB2-4A3C-8628-E368D3D25DC4@ripon.edu> References: <825197A2-0FB2-4A3C-8628-E368D3D25DC4@ripon.edu> Message-ID: We, the Monkeys! Charles Bernstein is Charles Bernstein! : http://www.huffingtonpost.com/anis-shivani/most-important-contemporary-poet_b_797050.html#s208968 On Fri, Dec 17, 2010 at 9:46 PM, David Graham wrote: > This time, he asked 22 contemporary American poets who they would name as > "the most important contemporary poet." > > > http://www.huffingtonpost.com/anis-shivani/most-important-contemporary-poet_b_797050.html#s209352 > > Many cannot limit themselves to just one name, and their comments are a > thicket of quibbles and qualifications, naturally. Fun reading, though. > > I believe the only poet to receive multiple nominations is, unsurprisingly, > John Ashbery. > > For what it's worth--nothing--there is no poet named that I haven't at > least read. Whew! > > > ======================================== > David Graham > grahamd at ripon.edu > > Home Page: > http://web.me.com/drjazz > > Poetry Library: > http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html > ========================================== > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cervantes.james at gmail.com Sat Dec 18 09:14:35 2010 From: cervantes.james at gmail.com (James Cervantes) Date: Sat, 18 Dec 2010 07:14:35 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Some major blurbing Message-ID: from: TLS Books of the Year 2010 http://entertainment.timesonline.co.uk/tol/arts_and_entertainment/the_tls/article7169599.ece JOHN ASHBERY writes: "Ever since getting happily tripped up by The Waste Land, I tend to skip the end notes of a book of poetry. But those for Timothy Donnelly?s The Cloud Corporation (Wave) aren?t easy to ignore. They refer, among other sources, to Maturin?s Melmoth the Wanderer, H. L. Mencken, Schopenhauer, Bruce Springsteen, Gibbon, Flaubert?s Diary of a Madman, and, in one case, to Osama bin Laden and the theme song to The Beverly Hillbillies. None of this would matter, of course, if the broad range of references weren?t matched by the vaulting agility of the author?s mind. This is an extraordinary collection ? the poetry of the future, here, today." PAUL MULDOON writes: "In ?Songs for Senility? from his new collection, By the Numbers (Copper Canyon), James Richardson presents us with a rewriting of another Yeats poem, ?A Dialogue of Self and Soul?. Like so many of Richardson?s poems it?s funny, fragile, fierce, fastidious, flighty, frank." ALI SMITH writes: "Finally, who knew the weight of history and the foulness of the slave trade could be transformed into, of all things, a hot-air balloon ride? Like a liberating piece of jazz, and with astonishing, near-heroic buoyancy in its communal voice, Nii Ayikwei Parkes?s poetry sequence, Ballast: A remix (Tall-Lighthouse), literally does the impossible." -- Jim ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning http://www.fieralingue.it/documenti/mr_bondo.pdf http://www.poetserv.org/jvc/home/index.html http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamescervantes/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sat Dec 18 11:33:28 2010 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Sat, 18 Dec 2010 11:33:28 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] A Claim about Academics In-Reply-To: <4DE236AA-437E-41FD-938C-390EC6D55C24@verizon.net> References: <4DE236AA-437E-41FD-938C-390EC6D55C24@verizon.net> Message-ID: <4D0CE258.5020009@nut-n-but.net> First, a definition of a term. The term: "Knowleplex." The definition: any reasonably coherent unified knowledge, practice, use and understanding of some subject of any size, say from one-letter words in English to literature since 4000 B.C. So far as academics are concerned, there are five kinds of knowleplexes: 1. Academically-Approved Knowleplexes, which are knowleplexes approved by 90% of those academics knowledgeable about them (although some may dislike them) 2. Academically-Tolerated Knowleplexes, which are knowleplexes tolerated by most of those academics knowledgeable about them since they believe there is insufficient data available for approval or disapproval 3.. Academically-Unexamined Knowleplexes, which are knowleplexes almost all academics deem too trivial to examine, or are ignorant of (and don't want to be told about) 4. Academically-Disapproved Knowleplexes, which are knowleplexes disapproved by 90% of those academics knowledgeable about them 5. Academically-Denounced Knowleplexes, which are knowleplexes some academics knowledgeable about them think a significant danger to right thinking. My claim about academics is that the great majority of them (and their followers) are incapable of advocating the value of any knowleplex but those in class one or two. They also believe any knowleplex of which they are ignorant that has anything to do with their main intellectual interests can be anything but trivial. I claim the Knowleplex of what I call "Wilshberia" (an understanding of contemporary poetry from neoformal to Ashberian jump-cut poetry) is a class one knowleplex. And pluraesthetic poetry a class three knowleplex that a fair number of academics want to demote. Pluraesthetic poetry is not the only kind of non-Wilshberian poetry, by the way. It isn't even the most annoyingly whining kind (since only I and Richard Kostelanetz whine much about its dismissal, I invisibly, he impotently). Among the others is Language Poetry, which has become a class two knowleplex and is sure to become a class one knowleplex before long (although most academics hate it) Note: although few will agree, my list of knowleplexes above is wholly descriptive, not evaluative. My own opinion is that the huge majority of class one knowleplexes are valid, the huge majority of class twos deserve further study, and the huge majority of class threes are trivial. The huge majority of class fours are worthless, and probably almost all class fives are worthless, and ought to be denounced, such as the theory that The Seventeenth Earl of Oxford wrote the works of Shakespeare (my own pet class five). --Bob From c.a.b.daly at gmail.com Sat Dec 18 11:39:12 2010 From: c.a.b.daly at gmail.com (Catherine Daly) Date: Sat, 18 Dec 2010 08:39:12 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] Anis Shivani is at it again In-Reply-To: References: <825197A2-0FB2-4A3C-8628-E368D3D25DC4@ripon.edu> Message-ID: But apparently Michael McClure and Diane diPrima are one. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From barry.spacks at verizon.net Sat Dec 18 12:25:31 2010 From: barry.spacks at verizon.net (Barry Spacks) Date: Sat, 18 Dec 2010 09:25:31 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] mince & dice In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Dec 18, 2010, at 8:28 AM, Bob G. wrote: > I came to believe that no term would offend no one. At least, in this long battle, we've lost the self-cosseting "burstnorm," I thank you for that. And for seeing, if perhaps only briefly, that "WilchBobbia" registers the divide and conquor tactics of the relentless Polemicist as a grim, self-defeating joke (grim because destructive of the true scope and continuity of the art since Gilgamesh, an art that tends -- after a bit of inertia -- to welcome and be energized by experimental initiative). > From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sat Dec 18 14:11:49 2010 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Sat, 18 Dec 2010 14:11:49 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] mince & dice In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4D0D0775.3020401@nut-n-but.net> > At least, in this long battle, we've lost the self-cosseting > "burstnorm," > I thank you for that. And for seeing, if perhaps only briefly, that > "WilchBobbia" registers the divide and conquor tactics of the > relentless > Polemicist as a grim, self-defeating joke (grim because destructive > of the true scope and continuity of the art since Gilgamesh, > an art that tends -- after a bit of inertia -- to welcome and be > energized by experimental initiative). Barry, your side merely needs to continue to be silent about the small folk doing poetry you lack sympathy for and continue to ignore knocks at the gates to continue to keep the riff-raff out of whatever you want to name its territory. What alternative to annoyed screeches have we? --Bob From amyhappens at yahoo.com Sat Dec 18 14:22:08 2010 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king) Date: Sat, 18 Dec 2010 11:22:08 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] Review & Translation News Message-ID: <30632.98387.qm@web83302.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> New review of Slaves (thanks, Marthe!) -- http://cutbankpoetry.blogspot.com/2010/12/slaves-to-do-these-things-amy-king_16.html "Necessary Instinct" in Italian (thanks, Anny!) -- http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=3541 Happy weekend! Amy ********* VIDA: Women in Literary Arts + Interviews Amy's Alias + http://amyking.org/ ******** -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Sat Dec 18 15:10:28 2010 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Sat, 18 Dec 2010 12:10:28 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] A Claim about Academics In-Reply-To: <4D0CE258.5020009@nut-n-but.net> References: <4DE236AA-437E-41FD-938C-390EC6D55C24@verizon.net> <4D0CE258.5020009@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <358813.41185.qm@web55202.mail.re4.yahoo.com> I love it. Sort of like a duplex ... but divided into classes. Yeah, the whole Earl of Oxford thing is tiresome. I prefer the History channel, aka, the Hitler channel. It's possible to actually know a few things ( in the forensic sense ) these days. ________________________________ From: Bob Grumman To: NewPoetry List Sent: Sat, December 18, 2010 11:33:28 AM Subject: [New-Poetry] A Claim about Academics First, a definition of a term. The term: "Knowleplex." The definition: any reasonably coherent unified knowledge, practice, use and understanding of some subject of any size, say from one-letter words in English to literature since 4000 B.C. So far as academics are concerned, there are five kinds of knowleplexes: 1. Academically-Approved Knowleplexes, which are knowleplexes approved by 90% of those academics knowledgeable about them (although some may dislike them) 2. Academically-Tolerated Knowleplexes, which are knowleplexes tolerated by most of those academics knowledgeable about them since they believe there is insufficient data available for approval or disapproval 3.. Academically-Unexamined Knowleplexes, which are knowleplexes almost all academics deem too trivial to examine, or are ignorant of (and don't want to be told about) 4. Academically-Disapproved Knowleplexes, which are knowleplexes disapproved by 90% of those academics knowledgeable about them 5. Academically-Denounced Knowleplexes, which are knowleplexes some academics knowledgeable about them think a significant danger to right thinking. My claim about academics is that the great majority of them (and their followers) are incapable of advocating the value of any knowleplex but those in class one or two. They also believe any knowleplex of which they are ignorant that has anything to do with their main intellectual interests can be anything but trivial. I claim the Knowleplex of what I call "Wilshberia" (an understanding of contemporary poetry from neoformal to Ashberian jump-cut poetry) is a class one knowleplex. And pluraesthetic poetry a class three knowleplex that a fair number of academics want to demote. Pluraesthetic poetry is not the only kind of non-Wilshberian poetry, by the way. It isn't even the most annoyingly whining kind (since only I and Richard Kostelanetz whine much about its dismissal, I invisibly, he impotently). Among the others is Language Poetry, which has become a class two knowleplex and is sure to become a class one knowleplex before long (although most academics hate it) Note: although few will agree, my list of knowleplexes above is wholly descriptive, not evaluative. My own opinion is that the huge majority of class one knowleplexes are valid, the huge majority of class twos deserve further study, and the huge majority of class threes are trivial. The huge majority of class fours are worthless, and probably almost all class fives are worthless, and ought to be denounced, such as the theory that The Seventeenth Earl of Oxford wrote the works of Shakespeare (my own pet class five). --Bob _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Sat Dec 18 16:46:54 2010 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Sat, 18 Dec 2010 16:46:54 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Anis Shivani is at it again In-Reply-To: References: <825197A2-0FB2-4A3C-8628-E368D3D25DC4@ripon.edu> Message-ID: <8CD6D1438CC4814-1E50-D38A@webmail-d048.sysops.aol.com> Another view: Terms for terms' sake?... [Val?ry?s] horror of philosophic jargon is so convincing, so contagious, that one shares it forever after, so that one can no longer read a serious philosopher except with suspicion or distaste, henceforth rejecting any falsely mysterious or learned term. Most philosophy boils down to a crime of l?se-langage, a crime against the Word. Any professional expression?any profession of the schools?must be proscribed and identified with a misdemeanor. Anyone who, in order to settle a difficulty or solve a problem, invents a high-sounding, pretentious word, indeed a word at all, is unconsciously dishonest. In a letter to F. Brunot, Val?ry once wrote, ?It takes more intelligence to do without a word than to introduce one.? ?E.M. Cioran,?Val?ry Facing His Idols,? Anathemas and Admirations (Quartet Books, Ltd, 1992), translated by Richard Howard. A quote posted this week to my ursprache blog: http://ursprache.blogspot.com Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: Catherine Daly To: NewPoetry List Sent: Sat, Dec 18, 2010 11:39 am Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Anis Shivani is at it again But apparently Michael McClure and Diane diPrima are one. _______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Sat Dec 18 16:51:23 2010 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Sat, 18 Dec 2010 16:51:23 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] A Claim about Academics In-Reply-To: <8CD6D1438CC4814-1E50-D38A@webmail-d048.sysops.aol.com> References: <825197A2-0FB2-4A3C-8628-E368D3D25DC4@ripon.edu> <8CD6D1438CC4814-1E50-D38A@webmail-d048.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <8CD6D14D8D77E22-1E50-D43E@webmail-d048.sysops.aol.com> Ooops...corrected caption...somehow clicked on the wrong email... Tthe quote (below) relates to the interminable proliferation of terminlogy. Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: jforjames at aol.com To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Sat, Dec 18, 2010 4:46 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Anis Shivani is at it again Another view: Terms for terms' sake?... [Val?ry?s] horror of philosophic jargon is so convincing, so contagious, that one shares it forever after, so that one can no longer read a serious philosopher except with suspicion or distaste, henceforth rejecting any falsely mysterious or learned term. Most philosophy boils down to a crime of l?se-langage, a crime against the Word. Any professional expression?any profession of the schools?must be proscribed and identified with a misdemeanor. Anyone who, in order to settle a difficulty or solve a problem, invents a high-sounding, pretentious word, indeed a word at all, is unconsciously dishonest. In a letter to F. Brunot, Val?ry once wrote, ?It takes more intelligence to do without a word than to introduce one.? ?E.M. Cioran,?Val?ry Facing His Idols,? Anathemas and Admirations (Quartet Books, Ltd, 1992), translated by Richard Howard. A quote posted this week to my ursprache blog: http://ursprache.blogspot.com Finnegan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Sat Dec 18 16:58:07 2010 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Sat, 18 Dec 2010 13:58:07 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] A Claim about Academics In-Reply-To: <8CD6D14D8D77E22-1E50-D43E@webmail-d048.sysops.aol.com> References: <825197A2-0FB2-4A3C-8628-E368D3D25DC4@ripon.edu> <8CD6D1438CC4814-1E50-D38A@webmail-d048.sysops.aol.com> <8CD6D14D8D77E22-1E50-D43E@webmail-d048.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <101667.21708.qm@web55205.mail.re4.yahoo.com> interesting. i sort of share Valery's reluctance to welcome newly coined words, especially when they come from the academy, that small coterie of what?? ... them who wish to make their profession seem more esoteric than it derserves. On the other hand, Heidegger's "Poetry, Language and Thought," deserves a read, regardless of what one may think of the man's personal life. Here, Heidegger goes easy on the lingo, and heads straight towards thought. ________________________________ From: "jforjames at aol.com" To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Sat, December 18, 2010 4:51:23 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] A Claim about Academics Ooops...corrected caption...somehow clicked on the wrong email... Tthe quote (below) relates to the interminable proliferation of terminlogy. Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: jforjames at aol.com To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Sat, Dec 18, 2010 4:46 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Anis Shivani is at it again Another view: Terms for terms' sake?... [Val?ry?s] horror of philosophic jargon is so convincing, so contagious, that one shares it forever after, so that one can no longer read a serious philosopher except with suspicion or distaste, henceforth rejecting any falsely mysterious or learned term. Most philosophy boils down to a crime of l?se-langage, a crime against the Word. Any professional expression?any profession of the schools?must be proscribed and identified with a misdemeanor. Anyone who, in order to settle a difficulty or solve a problem, invents a high-sounding, pretentious word, indeed a word at all, is unconsciously dishonest. In a letter to F. Brunot, Val?ry once wrote, ?It takes more intelligence to do without a word than to introduce one.? ?E.M. Cioran,?Val?ry Facing His Idols,? Anathemas and Admirations (Quartet Books, Ltd, 1992), translated by Richard Howard. A quote posted this week to my ursprache blog: http://ursprache.blogspot.com/ Finnegan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sat Dec 18 20:19:52 2010 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Sat, 18 Dec 2010 20:19:52 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] A Claim about Academics In-Reply-To: <8CD6D14D8D77E22-1E50-D43E@webmail-d048.sysops.aol.com> References: <825197A2-0FB2-4A3C-8628-E368D3D25DC4@ripon.edu><8CD6D1438CC4814-1E50-D38A@webmail-d048.sysops.aol.com> <8CD6D14D8D77E22-1E50-D43E@webmail-d048.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <4D0D5DB8.1060506@nut-n-but.net> On 12/18/2010 4:51 PM, jforjames at aol.com wrote: > Ooops...corrected caption...somehow clicked on the wrong email... > Tthe quote (below) relates to the interminable proliferation of > terminlogy. > Finnegan I thought as much. Fortunately Valery is not one of my heroes. The fact of the matter is, as always, it's not the process that's flawed, but some of the practitioners. Most poems are pretty bad. Should we therefore outlaw poems? --Bob > -----Original Message----- > From: jforjames at aol.com > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Sent: Sat, Dec 18, 2010 4:46 pm > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Anis Shivani is at it again > > Another view: Terms for terms' sake?... > > [Val?ry?s] horror of philosophic jargon is so convincing, so > contagious, that one shares it forever after, so that one can no > longer read a /serious/ philosopher except with suspicion or distaste, > henceforth rejecting any falsely mysterious or learned term. Most > philosophy boils down to a crime of /l?se-langage/, a crime against > the Word. Any professional expression?any profession of the > /schools/?must be proscribed and identified with a misdemeanor. Anyone > who, in order to settle a difficulty or solve a problem, invents a > high-sounding, pretentious word, indeed a word at all, is > unconsciously dishonest. In a letter to F. Brunot, Val?ry once wrote, > ?It takes more intelligence to do without a word than to introduce one.? > > ?E.M. Cioran,?Val?ry Facing His Idols,? /Anathemas and Admirations/ > (Quartet Books, Ltd, 1992), translated by Richard Howard. > A quote posted this week to my ursprache blog: > http://ursprache.blogspot.com > Finnegan > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sat Dec 18 20:48:45 2010 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Sat, 18 Dec 2010 20:48:45 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] A Claim about Academics In-Reply-To: <4D0D5DB8.1060506@nut-n-but.net> References: <825197A2-0FB2-4A3C-8628-E368D3D25DC4@ripon.edu><8CD6D1438CC4814-1E50-D38A@webmail-d048.sysops.aol.com><8CD6D14D8D77E22- 1E50-D43E@webmail-d048.sysops.aol.com> <4D0D5DB8.1060506@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <4D0D647D.3060605@nut-n-but.net> I should add that "knowleplex" has little use outside my theoretical psychology, but seems necessary to it. The theory is based on the "knowlecule," which is a molecule of knowledge. It's like nothing else, so needing a name. To call a group of knowlecules that form some kind of understanding seemed sensible. And also allows for varieties of knowleplexes such as the rigidniplex, which is a sort of psychotic or semi-psychotic fixational system such as that formed by those who believe Oxford wrote the plays of Shakespeare. I think I'm as justified in making up names for the mechanisms I propose as those building new kinds of auto engines are for their mechanisms. Whether my coinages are of value will depend entirely on whether my over-all theory is. But its relation to certified psychology is more remote than the relation of my mathematical poetry is to Wilshberia. Or is "certified poetry," a better term because not a coinage? --Bob From robin.hamilton3 at virginmedia.com Sat Dec 18 22:42:25 2010 From: robin.hamilton3 at virginmedia.com (Robin Hamilton) Date: Sat, 18 Dec 2010 22:42:25 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] A Claim about Academics In-Reply-To: <4D0D647D.3060605@nut-n-but.net> References: <825197A2-0FB2-4A3C-8628-E368D3D25DC4@ripon.edu><8CD6D1438CC4814-1E50-D38A@webmail-d048.sysops.aol.com><8CD6D14D8D77E22-1E50-D43E@webmail-d048.sysops.aol.com><4D0D5DB8.1060506@nut-n-but.net> <4D0D647D.3060605@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <2464F5A6119140E9B1B9D7E20844F5AE@RobinLaptopPC> From: "Bob Grumman" >I should add that "knowleplex" has little use outside my theoretical >psychology, but seems necessary to it. The theory is based on the >"knowlecule," which is a molecule of knowledge. It's like nothing else, so >needing a name. "[A] molecule of knowledge" as you describe it above sounds suspiciously like a 'meme', a term relatively recently come into use, and I imagine reverse-engineered from the final elements of words such as "phoneme". Whether or not you like the term "meme", and I confess it still baffles my brain a little, it does seem to have a general currency, and point to something in The World asking to be named. Think of it as evolution in action, Bob -- your terminology simply fails to survive in the singularly unforgiving world of Semantic Darwinianism. Robin From barry.spacks at verizon.net Sun Dec 19 00:50:03 2010 From: barry.spacks at verizon.net (Barry Spacks) Date: Sat, 18 Dec 2010 21:50:03 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] end of this round for me In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Dec 18, 2010, at 7:42 PM, Bob G wrote: >> poetry you lack sympathy for sad to discover -- worse, not discover -- that one may serve as the key opposition to his own enterprise. I'd say there are many like me who'd claim only to lack sympathy not for categories of work with whatever names attached, but for what fails to come across as engaging, life-enhancing, "cool" in individual efforts. We do take a look at new initiatives, we just won't be bullied and organized into loving them for the sake of their strangeness alone. Hey, some of these "enemies" of your coterie actually also presume to participate in a certain strangeness -- no strangeness, no poem -- working outside the pesky box you prescribe. Once you put us in a subset we may become annoyed at the screams of your locked out pals desperate for a royal place within. amazing to consider how the lust for power corrupts the tactics that might lead to success. Truly good stuff always triumphs eventually, though mere fiddle may dazzle a while. Consider the history of reaction to The Waste Land. Consider...aw shucks, do what you seem fated to do. I'm left to wonder if those you champion are themselves happy with your approach to poetry-politics. honestly trying to move on, so will shut up now, B. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sun Dec 19 06:42:01 2010 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Sun, 19 Dec 2010 06:42:01 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] A Claim about Academics In-Reply-To: <2464F5A6119140E9B1B9D7E20844F5AE@RobinLaptopPC> References: <825197A2-0FB2-4A3C-8628-E368D3D25DC4@ripon.edu><8CD6D1438CC4814-1E50-D38A@webmail-d048.sysops.aol.com><8CD6D14D8D77E22- 1E50-D43E@webmail-d048.sysops.aol.com><4D0D5DB8.1060506@nut-n-but.net><4D0D647D.3060605@nut-n-but.net> <2464F5A6119140E9B1B9D7E20844F5AE@RobinLaptopPC> Message-ID: <4D0DEF89.1060804@nut-n-but.net> > From: "Bob Grumman" > >> I should add that "knowleplex" has little use outside my theoretical >> psychology, but seems necessary to it. The theory is based on the >> "knowlecule," which is a molecule of knowledge. It's like nothing >> else, so needing a name. > > "[A] molecule of knowledge" as you describe it above sounds > suspiciously like a 'meme', a term relatively recently come into use, > and I imagine reverse-engineered from the final elements of words such > as "phoneme". I'll just say, Robin, that "meme" doesn't mean anything like "knowlecule" does. The latter concerns an assemblage of master-cells in the brain strongly linked via the mnemoduct which, when enough of the cells are activated during an instacon (instant of consciousness) or series of instacons, causes a person to experience a bit of knowledge--of, say, a tree, or a particular tree such as an elm, or of Elm Street, etc. > > Whether or not you like the term "meme", and I confess it still > baffles my brain a little, it does seem to have a general currency, > and point to something in The World asking to be named. I'm not sure of its meaning, either, and tend to think it mildly suggestive about how ideas are transmitted--more a sociology term than a psychology term, and not a neurophysiology term like knowlecule is. > > Think of it as evolution in action, Bob -- your terminology simply > fails to survive in the singularly unforgiving world of Semantic > Darwinianism. > It hasn't failed to survive yet, Robin. Sometimes the status quo breaks down and evolution occurs. --Bob From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sun Dec 19 06:48:18 2010 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Sun, 19 Dec 2010 06:48:18 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] end of this round for me In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4D0DF102.5070500@nut-n-but.net> On 12/19/2010 12:50 AM, Barry Spacks wrote: > > On Dec 18, 2010, at 7:42 PM, Bob G wrote: > >>> poetry you lack sympathy for > > sad to discover -- worse, /not/ discover -- that > one may serve as the key opposition to his > own enterprise. > > I'd say there are many like me who'd claim only > to lack sympathy not for categories of work with > whatever names attached, but for what fails to > come across as engaging, life-enhancing, "cool" > in individual efforts. > > We do take a look at new initiatives, we just won't be > bullied and organized into loving them for the sake of > their strangeness alone. You don't have to love them, Barry, just not claim your kind of poetry is the only kind of any value at all. And suggest I or anyone else has ever claimed anyone should like our efforts for their strangeness alone. To believe that, frankly, is insane. Akin to my saying your side thinks other should love your work because of its lack of strangeness alone. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Sun Dec 19 07:34:49 2010 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sun, 19 Dec 2010 13:34:49 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] From and for Amy King: Review & Translation News Message-ID: New review of Slaves (thanks, Marthe!) -- http://cutbankpoetry.blogspot.com/2010/12/slaves-to-do-these-things-amy-king_16.html "Necessary Instinct" in Italian (thanks, Anny!) -- http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=3541 Happy weekend! Amy ********* VIDA: Women in Literary Arts + Interviews Amy's Alias + http://amyking.org/ ******** ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From msullivan at metrocast.net Sun Dec 19 09:50:37 2010 From: msullivan at metrocast.net (SULLIVAN) Date: Sun, 19 Dec 2010 09:50:37 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Winter Tower Journal Features Digital Poetry Message-ID: <61D39AAF76D04E4D9E01B53FFB999D55@MaryAnnPC> Announcing the Winter Issue of the Tower Journal, which features the Digital Poetry of the Griot, Russel Goings, Jesse Glass and Elise Stewart. Also featuring an awesome song poem by Jack Foley, "My Herostratus," and a selection of international and national (U.S.) poetry. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From msullivan at metrocast.net Sun Dec 19 09:57:22 2010 From: msullivan at metrocast.net (SULLIVAN) Date: Sun, 19 Dec 2010 09:57:22 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Winter Issue Tower Journal features Digital Poetry In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <692DF9720C1E48218034C2EB85941108@MaryAnnPC> Announcing the Winter Issue of The Tower Journal, http://www.towerjournal.com which features the Digital Poetry of Russel Goings, Jesse Glass and Elise Stewart. Don't miss Jack Foley's sung poem, "My Herostratus." Also featuring the art work of Lancillotto Bellini, Anne Niedlispacher and Stasja Voluti, along with selected poems from international poets. Mary Ann Sullivan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Sun Dec 19 10:49:31 2010 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sun, 19 Dec 2010 16:49:31 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Xmas In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: ------------------------------ Let me be your first Christmas wisher. *MERRY CHRISTMAS ! & All the Best in 2011*** * * *Click on the Christmas Card >** "Christmas Card" * -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From junction at earthlink.net Sun Dec 19 11:38:03 2010 From: junction at earthlink.net (Mark Weiss) Date: Sun, 19 Dec 2010 11:38:03 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] new round In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Of course. The problem is that we all develop screening criteria. What might be immediately recognizable to me as engaging, etc, may never get a chance for you, and vice versa. A test of one's range, what gets screened in or out, might be who you read with pleasure that you consider furthest out on the outer limits. >I'd say there are many like me who'd claim only >to lack sympathy not for categories of work with >whatever names attached, but for what fails to >come across as engaging, life-enhancing, "cool" >in individual efforts. > >We do take a look at new initiatives, we just won't be >bullied and organized into loving them for the sake of >their strangeness alone. > New from Chax Press: Mark Weiss, As Landscape. $16. Order from http://www.chax.org/poets/weiss.htm "What a beautiful set of circumstances! What a lovely concatenation of particulars. Here is the poet alive in every sense of the word, and through every one of his senses. Instead of missing a beat or a part, Weiss? fragments are like Chekhov?s short stories?the more that gets left out, the more they seem to contain One can hear echoes from all the various ancestors...[but] the voice, at its center, its core, is pure Mark Weiss. His use of the fragment is both elegant and bafflingly clear, a pure musical threnody [it] opens a window, not only into a mind, but a person, a personality, this human figure at the emotional center of the poem." M.G. Stephens, in Jacket. http://jacketmagazine.com/40/r-weiss-rb-stephens.shtml -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at gmail.com Sun Dec 19 11:50:30 2010 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Sun, 19 Dec 2010 10:50:30 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] new round In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: E.g., Donald Hall once claimed that he never read past the first "dead metaphor," a dead metaphor in itself as I read it. John Ciardi never read past the first clich?, he once said. A friend once told me that he decided whether or not to read a book by the first poem, the last poem, and the title poem, his way of telling me that placing a title poem first or last cut down my chances with him by a third. As for me, I stand at the top of the stairs and toss the book down. If it doesn't take flight on its own . . . well, . . . . Hal "A sudden silence in the middle of a conversation suddenly brings us back to essentials: it reveals how dearly we must pay for the invention of speech." --E. M. Cioran Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home *Mainly Black , **Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ;* *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; * ***Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; * ***G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; * *Transparencies & Projections * On Sun, Dec 19, 2010 at 10:38 AM, Mark Weiss wrote: > Of course. The problem is that we all develop screening criteria. What > might be immediately recognizable to me as engaging, etc, may never get a > chance for you, and vice versa. > > A test of one's range, what gets screened in or out, might be who you read > with pleasure that you consider furthest out on the outer limits. > > > I'd say there are many like me who'd claim only > to lack sympathy not for categories of work with > whatever names attached, but for what fails to > come across as engaging, life-enhancing, "cool" > in individual efforts. > > We do take a look at new initiatives, we just won't be > bullied and organized into loving them for the sake of > their strangeness alone. > > > > New from Chax Press: Mark Weiss, *As Landscape. > *$16. Order from http://www.chax.org/poets/weiss.htm > > > "What a beautiful set of circumstances! What a lovely concatenation of > particulars. Here is the poet alive in every sense of the word, and through > every one of his senses. Instead of missing a beat or a part, Weiss? > fragments are like Chekhov?s short stories?the more that gets left out, the > more they seem to contain? One can hear echoes from all the various > ancestors...[but] the voice, at its center, its core, is pure Mark Weiss. > His use of the fragment is both elegant and bafflingly clear, a pure musical > threnody?[it] opens a window, not only into a mind, but a person, a > personality, this human figure at the emotional center of the poem." > > M.G. Stephens, in Jacket. > http://jacketmagazine.com/40/r-weiss-rb-stephens.shtml > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Edward.Byrne at valpo.edu Sun Dec 19 12:10:50 2010 From: Edward.Byrne at valpo.edu (Edward Byrne) Date: Sun, 19 Dec 2010 11:10:50 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] VPR: Most Popular Blog Posts of 2010 Message-ID: <4D0DE83A0200006E0007D01A@gwdm1.valpo.edu> Following an annual tradition at the end of the year, I offer a look back at issues, literary topics, news articles, poets, poems, and commentary included during 2010 among the posts at "One Poet?s Notes" that proved most popular with readers. Once more, I have been pleased to notice readers? interest in a wide array of entries, measured by the site meter statistics of viewers? entry pages and frequently visited items, as well as the most popular subjects sought by those entering the VPR ediitor's blog through web search engines. http://edwardbyrne.blogspot.com/2010/12/most-popular-posts-of-2010.html -------------------------------------------------- Edward Byrne Department of English 322 Huegli Hall Valparaiso University Valparaiso, IN 46383-6493 E-mail: edward.byrne at valpo.edu Home Page: http://www.valpo.edu/home/faculty/ebyrne/homepage/ Faculty Page: http://www.valpo.edu/english/faculty/byrne.php Latest Book: http://www.turningpointbooks.com/byrne.html Personal Blog: http://www.edwardbyrnepoetry.blogspot.com/ Editor, Valparaiso Poetry Review E-mail: vpr at valpo.edu VPR Web Page: http://www.valpo.edu/vpr/ VPR Editor's Blog: http://edwardbyrne.blogspot.com/ Office Phone: (219) 464-5278 Twitter: http://twitter.com/valpopoetry Fax: (219) 464-5511 -------------------------------------------------- -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From survey at towerjournal.com Sun Dec 19 12:44:58 2010 From: survey at towerjournal.com (Mary Ann Sullivan) Date: Sun, 19 Dec 2010 09:44:58 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] Winter Issue Tower Journal Features Digital Poetry Message-ID: <15152.38874.qm@web507.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com> The Winter Issue of The Tower Journal features the Digital Poetry of Russel Goings, Jesse Glass and Elise Stewart. Also, don't miss the song poem, "My Herostratus" by Jack Foley. http://www.towerjournal.com From tad at opus40.org Sun Dec 19 13:15:22 2010 From: tad at opus40.org (Tad Richards) Date: Sun, 19 Dec 2010 13:15:22 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] VPR: Most Popular Blog Posts of 2010 In-Reply-To: <4D0DE83A0200006E0007D01A@gwdm1.valpo.edu> References: <4D0DE83A0200006E0007D01A@gwdm1.valpo.edu> Message-ID: Some good stuff I'd seen, some good stuff I'd missed. On Sun, Dec 19, 2010 at 12:10 PM, Edward Byrne wrote: > Following an annual tradition at the end of the year, I offer a look back > at issues, literary topics, news articles, poets, poems, and commentary > included during 2010 among the posts at "One Poet?s Notes" that proved most > popular with readers. Once more, I have been pleased to notice readers? > interest in a wide array of entries, measured by the site meter statistics > of viewers? entry pages and frequently visited items, as well as the most > popular subjects sought by those entering the VPR ediitor's blog through web > search engines. > > http://edwardbyrne.blogspot.com/2010/12/most-popular-posts-of-2010.html > -------------------------------------------------- > > Edward Byrne > Department of English > 322 Huegli Hall > Valparaiso University > Valparaiso, IN 46383-6493 > > E-mail: edward.byrne at valpo.edu > Home Page: > http://www.valpo.edu/home/faculty/ebyrne/homepage/ > Faculty Page: > http://www.valpo.edu/english/faculty/byrne.php > Latest Book: > http://www.turningpointbooks.com/byrne.html > Personal Blog: http://www.edwardbyrnepoetry.blogspot.com/ > > Editor, Valparaiso Poetry Review > E-mail: vpr at valpo.edu > VPR Web Page: http://www.valpo.edu/vpr/ > VPR Editor's Blog: > http://edwardbyrne.blogspot.com/ > Office Phone: (219) 464-5278 > Twitter: http://twitter.com/valpopoetry > Fax: (219) 464-5511 > > -------------------------------------------------- > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tad at opus40.org Sun Dec 19 13:24:51 2010 From: tad at opus40.org (Tad Richards) Date: Sun, 19 Dec 2010 13:24:51 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Hollywood does the poets In-Reply-To: <8CD6B72DD5A40AA-18D8-11ECC@webmail-m077.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CD6B72DD5A40AA-18D8-11ECC@webmail-m077.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: Even worse than that -- I remembered it, but couldn't remember who had played Marlowe, and was too rushed to look it up. The scene in the tavern between Shakespeare and Marlowe, in which Marlowe gives Will some ideas for Romeo and Ethel, the Pirate's Daughter, is probably the best scene I ever seen of shoptalk between two writers. On Thu, Dec 16, 2010 at 2:59 PM, wrote: > In the "Shakespeare in Love," you forgot the small role of Kit Marlowe > (potrayed by charismatic Rupert Everett). > > -----Original Message----- > From: Tad Richards > To: NewPoetry List > Sent: Thu, Dec 16, 2010 2:59 am > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Hollywood does the poets > > Joseph Fiennes as Shakespeare, Ronald Colman as Francois Villon > > On Wed, Dec 15, 2010 at 2:39 PM, Jeff Newberry wrote: > >> Jim's post got me to thinking: what is your favorite portrayal of a poet >> on the big screen. I actually liked DiCaprio as Rimbaud in *Total >> Eclipse*. I didn't see *Sylvia*, but someone told me that Paltrow did a >> good job with the role. >> >> --Jeff Newberry >> >> On Wed, Dec 15, 2010 at 10:21 AM, wrote: >> >>> >>> http://www.firstshowing.net/2010/12/13/first-bw-look-john-cusack-as-edgar-allan-poe-in-the-raven/ >>> >>> Once upon a midnight dreary, while I pondered, weak and weary? I'm not >>> sure how they got it, but The Huffington Post (via MTV) recently debuted the >>> first photo (or this just a Photoshop?) of John Cusack as poet Edgar Allen >>> Poe in James McTeigue's The Raven. The dark thriller has been shooting >>> Europe for the last few months and is a period piece about the last five >>> days before Poe's odd death, in which the poet is in pursuit of a serial >>> killer whose murders mirror those in his stories. >>> >>> == >>> Celebrity poets... >>> http://www.thefrisky.com/post/246-10-celebs-who-played-poets/ >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> New-Poetry mailing list >>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>> >>> >> >> >> -- >> You cannot tell people what to do, you can only tell them parables; and >> that is what art really is, particular stories of particular people and >> experience, from which each according to his own immediate and peculiar >> needs may draw his own conclusion. --W.H. Auden >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing listNew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.eduhttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Sun Dec 19 13:35:54 2010 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sun, 19 Dec 2010 19:35:54 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Hollywood does the poets In-Reply-To: <104400.91295.qm@web120519.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <3ceb0.10b521de.3a3ad216@cs.com> <8CD6AE19A7D9811-1370-5B75@webmail-d040.sysops.aol.com> <104400.91295.qm@web120519.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: The beautiful Massimo Troisi, alas not with us any more. On Thu, Dec 16, 2010 at 5:10 AM, John Jeffrey wrote: > Has anyone mentioned Il Postino? with Neruda played by... hmmm... some > actor whose name I can't remember. > > > ------------------------------ > *From:* "jforjames at aol.com" > *To:* new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > *Sent:* Wed, December 15, 2010 9:39:32 PM > > *Subject:* Re: [New-Poetry] Hollywood does the poets > > Death in Granada (Andy Garcia as Garcia Lorca) > http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0117106/ > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Sun Dec 19 13:36:31 2010 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sun, 19 Dec 2010 19:36:31 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Hollywood does the poets In-Reply-To: <3ceb0.10b521de.3a3ad216@cs.com> References: <3ceb0.10b521de.3a3ad216@cs.com> Message-ID: Look at Sam! You ... what about us? On Thu, Dec 16, 2010 at 3:23 AM, wrote: > In a message dated 12/15/2010 8:04:18 PM Central Standard Time, > robin.hamilton3 at virginmedia.com writes: > > > Add Stevie (about Stevie Smith). As I remember it, this used a lot of Her > Own Words material, both poetry and prose. > , > Robin > > > Quite wonderful. Glenda Jackson was also the world's greatest Hedda, > though you can't find the film anywhere (I have a copy, heh-heh). > > The film about Larkin, S*crooge*, was quite good too, even though Albert > Finney didn't much look like him; Kenneth More was great as Kingsley Amis. > And Pope was well portrayed in *The Wizard of Oz*. > > Actually, there is a pretty good film about Larkin called *Love Again*, > which you also can't find anywhere (I have a copy, heh-heh). > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sun Dec 19 14:03:59 2010 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Sun, 19 Dec 2010 14:03:59 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] new round In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4D0E571F.1050102@nut-n-but.net> On 12/19/2010 11:50 AM, Halvard Johnson wrote: > E.g., Donald Hall once claimed that he never read past the first "dead > metaphor," > a dead metaphor in itself as I read it. John Ciardi never read past > the first clich?, he > once said. A friend once told me that he decided whether or not to > read a book by > the first poem, the last poem, and the title poem, his way of telling > me that placing > a title poem first or last cut down my chances with him by a third. > > As for me, I stand at the top of the stairs and toss the book down. If > it doesn't take > flight on its own . . . well, . . . . > > Hal > One way I read a collection is to see how long I can go before hitting something significant I don't understand. I lose hope for the collection if it doesn't happen within four or five pages. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From junction at earthlink.net Sun Dec 19 15:11:50 2010 From: junction at earthlink.net (Mark Weiss) Date: Sun, 19 Dec 2010 15:11:50 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Hollywood does the poets In-Reply-To: References: <8CD6B72DD5A40AA-18D8-11ECC@webmail-m077.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: Isn't Webster in there also as a morbid little boy? At 01:24 PM 12/19/2010, you wrote: >Even worse than that -- I remembered it, but >couldn't remember who had played Marlowe, and >was too rushed to look it up. The scene in the >tavern between Shakespeare and Marlowe, in which >Marlowe gives Will some ideas for Romeo and >Ethel, the Pirate's Daughter, is probably the >best scene I ever seen of shoptalk between two writers. > >On Thu, Dec 16, 2010 at 2:59 PM, ><jforjames at aol.com> wrote: >In the "Shakespeare in Love," you forgot the >small role of Kit Marlowe (potrayed by charismatic Rupert Everett). > >-----Original Message----- >From: Tad Richards <tad at opus40.org> >To: NewPoetry List ><new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu> >Sent: Thu, Dec 16, 2010 2:59 am >Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Hollywood does the poets > >Joseph Fiennes as Shakespeare, Ronald Colman as Francois Villon > >On Wed, Dec 15, 2010 at 2:39 PM, Jeff Newberry ><jeff.newberry at gmail.com> wrote: >Jim's post got me to thinking: what is your >favorite portrayal of a poet on the big >screen. I actually liked DiCaprio as Rimbaud in >*Total Eclipse*. I didn't see *Sylvia*, but >someone told me that Paltrow did a good job with the role. > >--Jeff Newberry > >On Wed, Dec 15, 2010 at 10:21 AM, ><jforjames at aol.com> wrote: >http://www.firstshowing.net/2010/12/13/first-bw-look-john-cusack-as-edgar-allan-poe-in-the-raven/ > >Once upon a midnight dreary, while I pondered, >weak and weary I'm not sure how they got it, >but The Huffington Post (via MTV) recently >debuted the first photo (or this just a >Photoshop?) of John Cusack as poet Edgar Allen >Poe in James McTeigue's The Raven. The dark >thriller has been shooting Europe for the last >few months and is a period piece about the last >five days before Poe's odd death, in which the >poet is in pursuit of a serial killer whose >murders mirror those in his stories. > >== >Celebrity poets... >http://www.thefrisky.com/post/246-10-celebs-who-played-poets/ > >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > >-- >You cannot tell people what to do, you can only >tell them parables; and that is what art really >is, particular stories of particular people and >experience, from which each according to his own >immediate and peculiar needs may draw his own conclusion. --W.H. Auden > > >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry New from Chax Press: Mark Weiss, As Landscape. $16. Order from http://www.chax.org/poets/weiss.htm "What a beautiful set of circumstances! What a lovely concatenation of particulars. Here is the poet alive in every sense of the word, and through every one of his senses. Instead of missing a beat or a part, Weiss? fragments are like Chekhov?s short stories?the more that gets left out, the more they seem to contain One can hear echoes from all the various ancestors...[but] the voice, at its center, its core, is pure Mark Weiss. His use of the fragment is both elegant and bafflingly clear, a pure musical threnody [it] opens a window, not only into a mind, but a person, a personality, this human figure at the emotional center of the poem." M.G. Stephens, in Jacket. http://jacketmagazine.com/40/r-weiss-rb-stephens.shtml -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From junction at earthlink.net Sun Dec 19 15:14:14 2010 From: junction at earthlink.net (Mark Weiss) Date: Sun, 19 Dec 2010 15:14:14 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] new round In-Reply-To: <4D0E571F.1050102@nut-n-but.net> References: <4D0E571F.1050102@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: Something like "a reader's task (and pleasure) is learning how to read the poem, a poet's task is to make it seem likely to be worth the effort." At 02:03 PM 12/19/2010, you wrote: >On 12/19/2010 11:50 AM, Halvard Johnson wrote: >>E.g., Donald Hall once claimed that he never >>read past the first "dead metaphor," >>a dead metaphor in itself as I read it. John >>Ciardi never read past the first clich?, he >>once said. A friend once told me that he >>decided whether or not to read a book by >>the first poem, the last poem, and the title >>poem, his way of telling me that placing >>a title poem first or last cut down my chances with him by a third. >> >>As for me, I stand at the top of the stairs and >>toss the book down. If it doesn't take >>flight on its own . . . well, . . . . >> >>Hal > >One way I read a collection is to see how long I >can go before hitting something significant I >don't understand. I lose hope for the >collection if it doesn't happen within four or five pages. > >--Bob >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry New from Chax Press: Mark Weiss, As Landscape. $16. Order from http://www.chax.org/poets/weiss.htm "What a beautiful set of circumstances! What a lovely concatenation of particulars. Here is the poet alive in every sense of the word, and through every one of his senses. Instead of missing a beat or a part, Weiss? fragments are like Chekhov?s short stories?the more that gets left out, the more they seem to contain One can hear echoes from all the various ancestors...[but] the voice, at its center, its core, is pure Mark Weiss. His use of the fragment is both elegant and bafflingly clear, a pure musical threnody [it] opens a window, not only into a mind, but a person, a personality, this human figure at the emotional center of the poem." M.G. Stephens, in Jacket. http://jacketmagazine.com/40/r-weiss-rb-stephens.shtml -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd at ripon.edu Sun Dec 19 15:46:10 2010 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Sun, 19 Dec 2010 14:46:10 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Hollywood does the poets In-Reply-To: References: <3ceb0.10b521de.3a3ad216@cs.com> <8CD6AE19A7D9811-1370-5B75@webmail-d040.sysops.aol.com> <104400.91295.qm@web120519.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: The actor who played Neruda was actually Philippe Noire. Massimo Troisi played Mario Ruoppolo, the postman of the title who falls in love with the beauteous Beatrice, and goes to Neruda for advice about love. Troisi postponed heart surgery in order to complete the film, then died the very day after shooting was completed. Noire, who has also since died, was French, and I believe that someone dubbed his voice into the film. (He also played Alfredo in Cinema Paradiso). Il Postino is hands-down my own favorite film involving poetry. I think that Noire did an incredible job of playing Neruda. And the film did a good job of treating poetry both comically and seriously. The book on which the film is based, Ardiente Paciencia, was written by Chilean novelist Antonio Skarmeta, and is well worth reading. (I read an English language version that was evidently rushed into print after the success of the movie, under the English title The Postman.) It's quite different from the Italian film, too. (And of course we can't credit Hollywood with any of the above, incidentally.) ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.me.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== On Dec 19, 2010, at 12:35 PM, Anny Ballardini wrote: > The beautiful Massimo Troisi, alas not with us any more. > > On Thu, Dec 16, 2010 at 5:10 AM, John Jeffrey wrote: > Has anyone mentioned Il Postino? with Neruda played by... hmmm... some actor whose name I can't remember. > > > From: "jforjames at aol.com" > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Sent: Wed, December 15, 2010 9:39:32 PM > > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Hollywood does the poets > > Death in Granada (Andy Garcia as Garcia Lorca) > http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0117106/ > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > -- > Anny Ballardini > http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ > http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome > http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 > http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html > I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! > Friedrich Nietzsche > > ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique > vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? > Giovenale > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sun Dec 19 16:31:49 2010 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Sun, 19 Dec 2010 16:31:49 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] new round In-Reply-To: References: <4D0E571F.1050102@nut- n-but.net> Message-ID: <4D0E79C5.2060108@nut-n-but.net> On 12/19/2010 3:14 PM, Mark Weiss wrote: > Something like "a reader's task (and pleasure) is learning how to read > the poem, a poet's task is to make it seem likely to be worth the effort." Close. I'd go with "a reader's task (and pleasure) is learning how to read the poem, a poet's task is to make it difficult but seem likely to be worth the effort." From robin.hamilton3 at virginmedia.com Sun Dec 19 17:33:49 2010 From: robin.hamilton3 at virginmedia.com (Robin Hamilton) Date: Sun, 19 Dec 2010 17:33:49 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Hollywood does the poets In-Reply-To: References: <8CD6B72DD5A40AA-18D8-11ECC@webmail-m077.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <3D3E538E9D8C4DEEB8DD087F7B170136@RobinLaptopPC> Isn't Webster in there also as a morbid little boy? Yeah. Bill comes on him sitting in the gutter, playing with a rat. Bloody typical! Robin -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From junction at earthlink.net Sun Dec 19 18:24:01 2010 From: junction at earthlink.net (Mark Weiss) Date: Sun, 19 Dec 2010 18:24:01 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Seasons Greetings Message-ID: My only seasonal poem, as far as I can remember. BY WAY OF THE SEASON 1 After its struggle the gazelle surrenders to the lion's grip, useless to fight. Does it think then, does it think 'if only I'd dodged to the right. If only. Maybe next time.' As the cat disembowels it and begins to feed. Farewell to the hills farewell to the herd farewell to water hole and tender grasses and the joy of the young at the teat. 2 At moments when the consequences of choice are upon us we say 'this can't be all there is,' but it can. Regret, nostalgia and longing, on the other hand, are ready gifts, one can live as if there were choices with no consequences, as if the life could be unlived and lived again. 3 Day before Christmas in the supermarket the Stones are singing "Can't get no satisfaction," but we try & we try & we try & and we try and we buy something. 4 No way no way elusive as wind. 5 Stories and the stories of stories. A vocabulary of places gathered and left. Putting death aside, one wonders whether to climb that distant hill, as in the conservation of matter. There are so many windows to look through. Opposite, a building seems to wear as a crown the trees beyond it. Close one eye or the other to recover its true flatness. If I say 'rock dove' do you see 'pigeon?' 6 No gull rests now on the cross above the church's triangular facade, but it's apparently a perch reserved for gulls to take turns at. So much for religion. One prays to invest oneself in the known and unknown places, the simplicity of the abandoned and the immanence of ruins. Ghost-whispers. 'I am the demon that whimpers at night,' he said, and the pigeons (or doves) ride even the steepest wires. The oblique is granted them. Across the street in front of the travel agency a gruff Santa makes Christmas noises in Caribbean Spanish. For a moment I thought it the ghost rising through the radiator from the apartment below. He dances now to "The Entertainer" played on a portable keyboard. Ragtime Spanish Santa from the Dominican Republic. And what would Dominic have made of this? 'Church of the Immaculate Deception,' he might have said. As in 'I bring you pestilence' he might have said. It was an epidemic of grace. 7 That year three virgins bore sons. Zeus the King displayed his thunderbolts. Chango fell as a shower of gold. And Chac arrived as rain. Where you find it bring joy. New from Chax Press: Mark Weiss, As Landscape. $16. Order from http://www.chax.org/poets/weiss.htm "What a beautiful set of circumstances! What a lovely concatenation of particulars. Here is the poet alive in every sense of the word, and through every one of his senses. Instead of missing a beat or a part, Weiss? fragments are like Chekhov?s short stories?the more that gets left out, the more they seem to contain One can hear echoes from all the various ancestors...[but] the voice, at its center, its core, is pure Mark Weiss. His use of the fragment is both elegant and bafflingly clear, a pure musical threnody [it] opens a window, not only into a mind, but a person, a personality, this human figure at the emotional center of the poem." M.G. Stephens, in Jacket. http://jacketmagazine.com/40/r-weiss-rb-stephens.shtml -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jjeffreymail at yahoo.com Sun Dec 19 21:09:25 2010 From: jjeffreymail at yahoo.com (John Jeffrey) Date: Sun, 19 Dec 2010 18:09:25 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] Hollywood does the poets In-Reply-To: <3D3E538E9D8C4DEEB8DD087F7B170136@RobinLaptopPC> References: <8CD6B72DD5A40AA-18D8-11ECC@webmail-m077.sysops.aol.com> <3D3E538E9D8C4DEEB8DD087F7B170136@RobinLaptopPC> Message-ID: <153912.39267.qm@web120520.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Yes! I remember, too, Webster telling Shakespeare--or was it the Queen?--that he liked it when Juliette "stabbed herself." I even think he said something about how he likes it when they kill each other. Made me laugh. I don't think many people in the audience knew why it was funny, though. John J ________________________________ From: Robin Hamilton To: NewPoetry List Sent: Sun, December 19, 2010 5:33:49 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Hollywood does the poets Isn't Webster in there also as a morbid little boy? Yeah. Bill comes on him sitting in the gutter, playing with a rat. Bloody typical! Robin -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Mon Dec 20 15:20:57 2010 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2010 12:20:57 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] Seasons Greetings In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <56968.65765.qm@web55205.mail.re4.yahoo.com> I'll have to save this poem in one of my yahoo folders. I don't feel it's necessary to ask permission since the poem has beautifully promoted the book which I will undouptly buy. The third stanza was hilarious, and, too true. ________________________________ From: Mark Weiss To: BRITISH-IRISH-POETS at JISCMAIL.AC.UK; new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu; POETICS at LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU; POETRYETC at JISCMAIL.AC.UK Sent: Sun, December 19, 2010 6:24:01 PM Subject: [New-Poetry] Seasons Greetings My only seasonal poem, as far as I can remember. BY WAY OF THE SEASON 1 After its struggle the gazelle surrenders to the lion's grip, useless to fight. Does it think then, does it think 'if only I'd dodged to the right. If only. Maybe next time.' As the cat disembowels it and begins to feed. Farewell to the hills farewell to the herd farewell to water hole and tender grasses and the joy of the young at the teat. 2 At moments when the consequences of choice are upon us we say 'this can't be all there is,' but it can. Regret, nostalgia and longing, on the other hand, are ready gifts, one can live as if there were choices with no consequences, as if the life could be unlived and lived again. 3 Day before Christmas in the supermarket the Stones are singing "Can't get no satisfaction," but we try & we try & we try & and we try and we buy something. 4 No way no way elusive as wind. 5 Stories and the stories of stories. A vocabulary of places gathered and left. Putting death aside, one wonders whether to climb that distant hill, as in the conservation of matter. There are so many windows to look through. Opposite, a building seems to wear as a crown the trees beyond it. Close one eye or the other to recover its true flatness. If I say 'rock dove' do you see 'pigeon?' 6 No gull rests now on the cross above the church's triangular facade, but it's apparently a perch reserved for gulls to take turns at. So much for religion. One prays to invest oneself in the known and unknown places, the simplicity of the abandoned and the immanence of ruins. Ghost-whispers. 'I am the demon that whimpers at night,' he said, and the pigeons (or doves) ride even the steepest wires. The oblique is granted them. Across the street in front of the travel agency a gruff Santa makes Christmas noises in Caribbean Spanish. For a moment I thought it the ghost rising through the radiator from the apartment below. He dances now to "The Entertainer" played on a portable keyboard. Ragtime Spanish Santa from the Dominican Republic. And what would Dominic have made of this? 'Church of the Immaculate Deception,' he might have said. As in 'I bring you pestilence' he might have said. It was an epidemic of grace. 7 That year three virgins bore sons. Zeus the King displayed his thunderbolts. Chango fell as a shower of gold. And Chac arrived as rain. Where you find it bring joy. New from Chax Press: Mark Weiss, As Landscape. $16. Order from http://www.chax.org/poets/weiss.htm "What a beautiful set of circumstances! What a lovely concatenation of particulars. Here is the poet alive in every sense of the word, and through every one of his senses. Instead of missing a beat or a part, Weiss? fragments are like Chekhov?s short stories?the more that gets left out, the more they seem to contain? One can hear echoes from all the various ancestors...[but] the voice, at its center, its core, is pure Mark Weiss. His use of the fragment is both elegant and bafflingly clear, a pure musical threnody?[it] opens a window, not only into a mind, but a person, a personality, this human figure at the emotional center of the poem." M.G. Stephens, in Jacket. http://jacketmagazine.com/40/r-weiss-rb-stephens.shtml -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From junction at earthlink.net Mon Dec 20 15:32:58 2010 From: junction at earthlink.net (Mark Weiss) Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2010 15:32:58 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Seasons Greetings In-Reply-To: <56968.65765.qm@web55205.mail.re4.yahoo.com> References: <56968.65765.qm@web55205.mail.re4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: The poem isn't in a book yet. What's a yahoo folder? At 03:20 PM 12/20/2010, you wrote: >I'll have to save this poem in one of my yahoo folders. >I don't feel it's necessary to ask permission >since the poem has beautifully promoted the book which I will undouptly buy. >The third stanza was hilarious, and, too true. > > >From: Mark Weiss >To: BRITISH-IRISH-POETS at JISCMAIL.AC.UK; >new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu; >POETICS at LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU; POETRYETC at JISCMAIL.AC.UK >Sent: Sun, December 19, 2010 6:24:01 PM >Subject: [New-Poetry] Seasons Greetings > >My only seasonal poem, as far as I can remember. > > >BY WAY OF THE SEASON > > >1 > >After its struggle the gazelle >surrenders to the lion's grip, useless >to fight. Does it think then, does it think >'if only I'd dodged to the right. If only. >Maybe next time.' >As the cat disembowels it and begins to feed. > >Farewell to the hills >farewell to the herd >farewell to water hole and tender grasses >and the joy of the young at the teat. > >2 > >At moments when the consequences of choice are upon us we say >'this can't be all there is,' but it can. Regret, nostalgia and longing, >on the other hand, are ready gifts, one can live >as if there were choices with no consequences, as if >the life could be unlived >and lived again. > >3 > >Day before Christmas in the supermarket the Stones are singing "Can't get no >satisfaction," but we try & we try & we try & and we try >and we buy something. > >4 > >No way no way >elusive as wind. > >5 > >Stories and the stories of stories. >A vocabulary of places gathered and left. >Putting death aside, one wonders whether to climb that distant hill, as in >the conservation of matter. >There are so many windows to look through. >Opposite, a building seems to wear as a crown the trees > beyond it. Close one eye or the other >to recover its true flatness. If I say >'rock dove' do you see 'pigeon?' > >6 > >No gull rests now on the cross above the church's triangular facade, but > it's apparently a perch >reserved for gulls to take turns at. >So much for religion. One prays >to invest oneself in the known and unknown places, >the simplicity of the abandoned and the immanence of ruins. >Ghost-whispers. > >'I am the demon that whimpers at night,' >he said, and the pigeons >(or doves) ride even the steepest wires. The oblique >is granted them. Across the street >in front of the travel agency >a gruff Santa makes Christmas noises >in Caribbean Spanish. For a moment I thought it the ghost >rising through the radiator from the apartment below. >He dances now to "The Entertainer" played on a portable keyboard. >Ragtime Spanish Santa from the Dominican Republic. >And what would Dominic have made of this? 'Church >of the Immaculate Deception,' he might have said. As in >'I bring you pestilence' >he might have said. >It was an epidemic of grace. > >7 > >That year three virgins bore sons. > >Zeus the King displayed his thunderbolts. >Chango fell as a shower of gold. >And Chac arrived as rain. > >Where you find it bring joy. > > > >New from Chax Press: Mark Weiss, As Landscape. >$16. Order from >http://www.chax.org/poets/weiss.htm > > >"What a beautiful set of circumstances! What a >lovely concatenation of particulars. Here is the >poet alive in every sense of the word, and >through every one of his senses. Instead of >missing a beat or a part, Weiss??? fragments are >like Chekhov???s short stories??the more that >gets left out, the more they seem to contain >One can hear eechoes from all the various >ancestors...[but] the voice, at its center, its >core, is pure Mark Weiss. His use of the >fragment is both elegant and bafflingly clear, a >pure musical threnody [it] opens a window, nott >only into a mind, but a person, a personality, >this human figure at the emotional center of the poem." > >M.G. Stephens, in Jacket. >http://jacketmagazine.com/40/r-weiss-rb-stephens.shtml > >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry New from Chax Press: Mark Weiss, As Landscape. $16. Order from http://www.chax.org/poets/weiss.htm "What a beautiful set of circumstances! What a lovely concatenation of particulars. Here is the poet alive in every sense of the word, and through every one of his senses. Instead of missing a beat or a part, Weiss? fragments are like Chekhov?s short stories?the more that gets left out, the more they seem to contain One can hear echoes from all the various ancestors...[but] the voice, at its center, its core, is pure Mark Weiss. His use of the fragment is both elegant and bafflingly clear, a pure musical threnody [it] opens a window, not only into a mind, but a person, a personality, this human figure at the emotional center of the poem." M.G. Stephens, in Jacket. http://jacketmagazine.com/40/r-weiss-rb-stephens.shtml -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at gmail.com Mon Dec 20 15:34:44 2010 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2010 14:34:44 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Seasons Greetings In-Reply-To: References: <56968.65765.qm@web55205.mail.re4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: It's a folder full of yahoos. Hal "A sudden silence in the middle of a conversation suddenly brings us back to essentials: it reveals how dearly we must pay for the invention of speech." --E. M. Cioran Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home *Mainly Black , **Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ;* *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; * ***Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; * ***G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; * *Transparencies & Projections * On Mon, Dec 20, 2010 at 2:32 PM, Mark Weiss wrote: > The poem isn't in a book yet. What's a yahoo folder? > > > At 03:20 PM 12/20/2010, you wrote: > > I'll have to save this poem in one of my yahoo folders. > I don't feel it's necessary to ask permission since the poem has > beautifully promoted the book which I will undouptly buy. > The third stanza was hilarious, and, too true. > > > *From:* Mark Weiss > *To:* BRITISH-IRISH-POETS at JISCMAIL.AC.UK; new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu; > POETICS at LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU; POETRYETC at JISCMAIL.AC.UK > *Sent:* Sun, December 19, 2010 6:24:01 PM > *Subject:* [New-Poetry] Seasons Greetings > > My only seasonal poem, as far as I can remember. > > > *BY WAY OF THE SEASON > * > > 1 > > After its struggle the gazelle > surrenders to the lion's grip, useless > to fight. Does it think then, does it think > 'if only I'd dodged to the right. If only. > Maybe next time.' > As the cat disembowels it and begins to feed. > > Farewell to the hills > farewell to the herd > farewell to water hole and tender grasses > and the joy of the young at the teat. > > 2 > > At moments when the consequences of choice are upon us we say > 'this can't be all there is,' but it can. Regret, nostalgia and longing, > on the other hand, are ready gifts, one can live > as if there were choices with no consequences, as if > the life could be unlived > and lived again. > > 3 > > Day before Christmas in the supermarket the Stones are singing "Can't get > no > satisfaction," but we try & we try & we try & and we try > and we buy something. > > 4 > > No way no way > elusive as wind. > > 5 > > Stories and the stories of stories. > A vocabulary of places gathered and left. > Putting death aside, one wonders whether to climb that distant hill, as in > the conservation of matter. > There are so many windows to look through. > Opposite, a building seems to wear as a crown the trees > beyond it. Close one eye or the other > to recover its true flatness. If I say > 'rock dove' do you see 'pigeon?' > > 6 > > No gull rests now on the cross above the church's triangular facade, but > it's apparently a perch > reserved for gulls to take turns at. > So much for religion. One prays > to invest oneself in the known and unknown places, > the simplicity of the abandoned and the immanence of ruins. > Ghost-whispers. > > 'I am the demon that whimpers at night,' > he said, and the pigeons > (or doves) ride even the steepest wires. The oblique > is granted them. Across the street > in front of the travel agency > a gruff Santa makes Christmas noises > in Caribbean Spanish. For a moment I thought it the ghost > rising through the radiator from the apartment below. > He dances now to "The Entertainer" played on a portable keyboard. > Ragtime Spanish Santa from the Dominican Republic. > And what would Dominic have made of this? 'Church > of the Immaculate Deception,' he might have said. As in > 'I bring you pestilence' > he might have said. > It was an epidemic of grace. > > 7 > > That year three virgins bore sons. > > Zeus the King displayed his thunderbolts. > Chango fell as a shower of gold. > And Chac arrived as rain. > > Where you find it bring joy. > > > > New from Chax Press: Mark Weiss, *As Landscape. > *$16. Order from http://www.chax.org/poets/weiss.htm > > > "What a beautiful set of circumstances! What a lovely concatenation of > particulars. Here is the poet alive in every sense of the word, and through > every one of his senses. Instead of missing a beat or a part, Weiss??? > fragments are like Chekhov???s short stories??the more that gets left out, > the more they seem to contain? One can hear eechoes from all the various > ancestors...[but] the voice, at its center, its core, is pure Mark Weiss. > His use of the fragment is both elegant and bafflingly clear, a pure musical > threnody?[it] opens a window, nott only into a mind, but a person, a > personality, this human figure at the emotional center of the poem." > > > M.G. Stephens, in Jacket. > http://jacketmagazine.com/40/r-weiss-rb-stephens.shtml > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > New from Chax Press: Mark Weiss, *As Landscape. > *$16. Order from http://www.chax.org/poets/weiss.htm > > > "What a beautiful set of circumstances! What a lovely concatenation of > particulars. Here is the poet alive in every sense of the word, and through > every one of his senses. Instead of missing a beat or a part, Weiss? > fragments are like Chekhov?s short stories?the more that gets left out, the > more they seem to contain? One can hear echoes from all the various > ancestors...[but] the voice, at its center, its core, is pure Mark Weiss. > His use of the fragment is both elegant and bafflingly clear, a pure musical > threnody?[it] opens a window, not only into a mind, but a person, a > personality, this human figure at the emotional center of the poem." > > M.G. Stephens, in Jacket. > http://jacketmagazine.com/40/r-weiss-rb-stephens.shtml > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at gmail.com Mon Dec 20 15:35:08 2010 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2010 14:35:08 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Seasons Greetings In-Reply-To: References: <56968.65765.qm@web55205.mail.re4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Or a person who folds yahoos. Hal "A sudden silence in the middle of a conversation suddenly brings us back to essentials: it reveals how dearly we must pay for the invention of speech." --E. M. Cioran Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home *Mainly Black , **Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ;* *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; * ***Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; * ***G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; * *Transparencies & Projections * On Mon, Dec 20, 2010 at 2:34 PM, Halvard Johnson wrote: > It's a folder full of yahoos. > > Hal > > "A sudden silence in the middle of a conversation > suddenly brings us back to essentials: it reveals > how dearly we must pay for the invention of speech." > > --E. M. Cioran > > Halvard Johnson > ================ > > halvard at gmail.com > http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > http://www.hamiltonstone.org > > http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home > > *Mainly Black > , **Obras P?blicas > ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets > ;* > *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones > ; **Tango Bouquet > ; **Theory of Harmony > ; * > ***Rapsodie espagnole > ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway > ; **The Sonnet Project > ; * > ***G(e)nome ; **Winter > Journey ; **Eclipse > ; **The Dance of the Red Swan > ;* > *Transparencies & Projections > * > > > > > On Mon, Dec 20, 2010 at 2:32 PM, Mark Weiss wrote: > >> The poem isn't in a book yet. What's a yahoo folder? >> >> >> At 03:20 PM 12/20/2010, you wrote: >> >> I'll have to save this poem in one of my yahoo folders. >> I don't feel it's necessary to ask permission since the poem has >> beautifully promoted the book which I will undouptly buy. >> The third stanza was hilarious, and, too true. >> >> >> *From:* Mark Weiss >> *To:* BRITISH-IRISH-POETS at JISCMAIL.AC.UK; new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu; >> POETICS at LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU; POETRYETC at JISCMAIL.AC.UK >> *Sent:* Sun, December 19, 2010 6:24:01 PM >> *Subject:* [New-Poetry] Seasons Greetings >> >> My only seasonal poem, as far as I can remember. >> >> >> *BY WAY OF THE SEASON >> * >> >> 1 >> >> After its struggle the gazelle >> surrenders to the lion's grip, useless >> to fight. Does it think then, does it think >> 'if only I'd dodged to the right. If only. >> Maybe next time.' >> As the cat disembowels it and begins to feed. >> >> Farewell to the hills >> farewell to the herd >> farewell to water hole and tender grasses >> and the joy of the young at the teat. >> >> 2 >> >> At moments when the consequences of choice are upon us we say >> 'this can't be all there is,' but it can. Regret, nostalgia and longing, >> on the other hand, are ready gifts, one can live >> as if there were choices with no consequences, as if >> the life could be unlived >> and lived again. >> >> 3 >> >> Day before Christmas in the supermarket the Stones are singing "Can't get >> no >> satisfaction," but we try & we try & we try & and we try >> and we buy something. >> >> 4 >> >> No way no way >> elusive as wind. >> >> 5 >> >> Stories and the stories of stories. >> A vocabulary of places gathered and left. >> Putting death aside, one wonders whether to climb that distant hill, as in >> the conservation of matter. >> There are so many windows to look through. >> Opposite, a building seems to wear as a crown the trees >> beyond it. Close one eye or the other >> to recover its true flatness. If I say >> 'rock dove' do you see 'pigeon?' >> >> 6 >> >> No gull rests now on the cross above the church's triangular facade, but >> it's apparently a perch >> reserved for gulls to take turns at. >> So much for religion. One prays >> to invest oneself in the known and unknown places, >> the simplicity of the abandoned and the immanence of ruins. >> Ghost-whispers. >> >> 'I am the demon that whimpers at night,' >> he said, and the pigeons >> (or doves) ride even the steepest wires. The oblique >> is granted them. Across the street >> in front of the travel agency >> a gruff Santa makes Christmas noises >> in Caribbean Spanish. For a moment I thought it the ghost >> rising through the radiator from the apartment below. >> He dances now to "The Entertainer" played on a portable keyboard. >> Ragtime Spanish Santa from the Dominican Republic. >> And what would Dominic have made of this? 'Church >> of the Immaculate Deception,' he might have said. As in >> 'I bring you pestilence' >> he might have said. >> It was an epidemic of grace. >> >> 7 >> >> That year three virgins bore sons. >> >> Zeus the King displayed his thunderbolts. >> Chango fell as a shower of gold. >> And Chac arrived as rain. >> >> Where you find it bring joy. >> >> >> >> New from Chax Press: Mark Weiss, *As Landscape. >> *$16. Order from http://www.chax.org/poets/weiss.htm >> >> >> "What a beautiful set of circumstances! What a lovely concatenation of >> particulars. Here is the poet alive in every sense of the word, and through >> every one of his senses. Instead of missing a beat or a part, Weiss??? >> fragments are like Chekhov???s short stories??the more that gets left out, >> the more they seem to contain? One can hear eechoes from all the various >> ancestors...[but] the voice, at its center, its core, is pure Mark Weiss. >> His use of the fragment is both elegant and bafflingly clear, a pure musical >> threnody?[it] opens a window, nott only into a mind, but a person, a >> personality, this human figure at the emotional center of the poem." >> >> >> M.G. Stephens, in Jacket. >> http://jacketmagazine.com/40/r-weiss-rb-stephens.shtml >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> >> >> New from Chax Press: Mark Weiss, *As Landscape. >> *$16. Order from http://www.chax.org/poets/weiss.htm >> >> >> "What a beautiful set of circumstances! What a lovely concatenation of >> particulars. Here is the poet alive in every sense of the word, and through >> every one of his senses. Instead of missing a beat or a part, Weiss? >> fragments are like Chekhov?s short stories?the more that gets left out, the >> more they seem to contain? One can hear echoes from all the various >> ancestors...[but] the voice, at its center, its core, is pure Mark Weiss. >> His use of the fragment is both elegant and bafflingly clear, a pure musical >> threnody?[it] opens a window, not only into a mind, but a person, a >> personality, this human figure at the emotional center of the poem." >> >> M.G. Stephens, in Jacket. >> http://jacketmagazine.com/40/r-weiss-rb-stephens.shtml >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From junction at earthlink.net Mon Dec 20 15:36:36 2010 From: junction at earthlink.net (Mark Weiss) Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2010 15:36:36 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Seasons Greetings In-Reply-To: References: <56968.65765.qm@web55205.mail.re4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I'm more a yahoo than a folder. So I guess I belond there. At 03:35 PM 12/20/2010, you wrote: >Or a person who folds yahoos. > >Hal > >"A sudden silence in the middle of a conversation >suddenly brings us back to essentials: it reveals >how dearly we must pay for the invention of speech." > > --E. M. Cioran > >Halvard Johnson >================ > >halvard at gmail.com >http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home >http://entropyandme.blogspot.com >http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com >http://www.hamiltonstone.org >http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home > >Mainly >Black, >Obras >P?blicas; >The >Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets; >Organ >Harvest with Entrance of Clones; >Tango >Bouquet; >Theory >of Harmony; >Rapsodie >espagnole; >Guide >to the Tokyo Subway; >The >Sonnet Project; >G(e)nome; >Winter >Journey; >Eclipse; >The Dance of the Red Swan; >Transparencies & Projections > > > > >On Mon, Dec 20, 2010 at 2:34 PM, Halvard Johnson ><halvard at gmail.com> wrote: >It's a folder full of yahoos. > >Hal > >"A sudden silence in the middle of a conversation >suddenly brings us back to essentials: it reveals >how dearly we must pay for the invention of speech." > > --E. M. Cioran > >Halvard Johnson >================ > >halvard at gmail.com >http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home >http://entropyandme.blogspot.com >http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com >http://www.hamiltonstone.org >http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home > >Mainly >Black, >Obras >P?blicas; >The >Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets; >Organ >Harvest with Entrance of Clones; >Tango >Bouquet; >Theory >of Harmony; >Rapsodie >espagnole; >Guide >to the Tokyo Subway; >The >Sonnet Project; >G(e)nome; >Winter >Journey; >Eclipse; >The Dance of the Red Swan; >Transparencies & Projections > > > > >On Mon, Dec 20, 2010 at 2:32 PM, Mark Weiss ><junction at earthlink.net> wrote: >The poem isn't in a book yet. What's a yahoo folder? > > >At 03:20 PM 12/20/2010, you wrote: >>I'll have to save this poem in one of my yahoo folders. >>I don't feel it's necessary to ask permission >>since the poem has beautifully promoted the book which I will undouptly buy. >>The third stanza was hilarious, and, too true. >> >> >>From: Mark Weiss <junction at earthlink.net> >>To: >>BRITISH-IRISH-POETS at JISCMAIL.AC.UK; >>new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu; >>POETICS at LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU; >>POETRYETC at JISCMAIL.AC.UK >>Sent: Sun, December 19, 2010 6:24:01 PM >>Subject: [New-Poetry] Seasons Greetings >> >>My only seasonal poem, as far as I can remember. >> >> >>BY WAY OF THE SEASON >> >> >>1 >> >>After its struggle the gazelle >>surrenders to the lion's grip, useless >>to fight. Does it think then, does it think >>'if only I'd dodged to the right. If only. >>Maybe next time.' >>As the cat disembowels it and begins to feed. >> >>Farewell to the hills >>farewell to the herd >>farewell to water hole and tender grasses >>and the joy of the young at the teat. >> >>2 >> >>At moments when the consequences of choice are upon us we say >>'this can't be all there is,' but it can. Regret, nostalgia and longing, >>on the other hand, are ready gifts, one can live >>as if there were choices with no consequences, as if >>the life could be unlived >>and lived again. >> >>3 >> >>Day before Christmas in the supermarket the Stones are singing "Can't get no >>satisfaction," but we try & we try & we try & and we try >>and we buy something. >> >>4 >> >>No way no way >>elusive as wind. >> >>5 >> >>Stories and the stories of stories. >>A vocabulary of places gathered and left. >>Putting death aside, one wonders whether to climb that distant hill, as in >>the conservation of matter. >>There are so many windows to look through. >>Opposite, a building seems to wear as a crown the trees >> beyond it. Close one eye or the other >>to recover its true flatness. If I say >>'rock dove' do you see 'pigeon?' >> >>6 >> >>No gull rests now on the cross above the church's triangular facade, but >> it's apparently a perch >>reserved for gulls to take turns at. >>So much for religion. One prays >>to invest oneself in the known and unknown places, >>the simplicity of the abandoned and the immanence of ruins. >>Ghost-whispers. >> >>'I am the demon that whimpers at night,' >>he said, and the pigeons >>(or doves) ride even the steepest wires. The oblique >>is granted them. Across the street >>in front of the travel agency >>a gruff Santa makes Christmas noises >>in Caribbean Spanish. For a moment I thought it the ghost >>rising through the radiator from the apartment below. >>He dances now to "The Entertainer" played on a portable keyboard. >>Ragtime Spanish Santa from the Dominican Republic. >>And what would Dominic have made of this? 'Church >>of the Immaculate Deception,' he might have said. As in >>'I bring you pestilence' >>he might have said. >>It was an epidemic of grace. >> >>7 >> >>That year three virgins bore sons. >> >>Zeus the King displayed his thunderbolts. >>Chango fell as a shower of gold. >>And Chac arrived as rain. >> >>Where you find it bring joy. >> >> >> >>New from Chax Press: Mark Weiss, As Landscape. >>$16. Order from >>http://www.chax.org/poets/weiss.htm >> >> >>"What a beautiful set of circumstances! What a >>lovely concatenation of particulars. Here is >>the poet alive in every sense of the word, and >>through every one of his senses. Instead of >>missing a beat or a part, Weiss??? fragments >>are like Chekhov???s short stories??the more >>that gets left out, the more they seem to >>contain One can hear eechoes from all the >>various ancestors...[but] the voice, at its >>center, its core, is pure Mark Weiss. His use >>of the fragment is both elegant and bafflingly >>clear, a pure musical threnody [it] opens a >>window, nott only into a mind, but a person, a >>personality, this human figure at the emotional center of the poem." >> >> >>M.G. Stephens, in Jacket. >>http://jacketmagazine.com/40/r-weiss-rb-stephens.shtml >> >>_______________________________________________ >>New-Poetry mailing list >>New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > >New from Chax Press: Mark Weiss, As Landscape. >$16. Order from >http://www.chax.org/poets/weiss.htm > > >"What a beautiful set of circumstances! What a >lovely concatenation of particulars. Here is the >poet alive in every sense of the word, and >through every one of his senses. Instead of >missing a beat or a part, Weiss? fragments are >like Chekhov?s short stories?the more that gets >left out, the more they seem to contain One can >hear echoes from all the various >ancestors...[but] the voice, at its center, its >core, is pure Mark Weiss. His use of the >fragment is both elegant and bafflingly clear, a >pure musical threnody [it] opens a window, not >only into a mind, but a person, a personality, >this human figure at the emotional center of the poem." > >M.G. Stephens, in Jacket. >http://jacketmagazine.com/40/r-weiss-rb-stephens.shtml > >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry New from Chax Press: Mark Weiss, As Landscape. $16. Order from http://www.chax.org/poets/weiss.htm "What a beautiful set of circumstances! What a lovely concatenation of particulars. Here is the poet alive in every sense of the word, and through every one of his senses. Instead of missing a beat or a part, Weiss? fragments are like Chekhov?s short stories?the more that gets left out, the more they seem to contain One can hear echoes from all the various ancestors...[but] the voice, at its center, its core, is pure Mark Weiss. His use of the fragment is both elegant and bafflingly clear, a pure musical threnody [it] opens a window, not only into a mind, but a person, a personality, this human figure at the emotional center of the poem." M.G. Stephens, in Jacket. http://jacketmagazine.com/40/r-weiss-rb-stephens.shtml -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Mon Dec 20 15:48:23 2010 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2010 12:48:23 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] Seasons Greetings In-Reply-To: References: <56968.65765.qm@web55205.mail.re4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <275267.78149.qm@web55205.mail.re4.yahoo.com> i see. a yahoo folder is simply a folder one keeps and stores stuff in on Yahoo e-mail. i can delete the thing if it violates some sort of intellectual property. not that the poem would go anywhere or do anything of any significance, having protective custody in my folder. ________________________________ From: Mark Weiss To: NewPoetry List Sent: Mon, December 20, 2010 3:32:58 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Seasons Greetings The poem isn't in a book yet. What's a yahoo folder? At 03:20 PM 12/20/2010, you wrote: I'll have to save this poem in one of my yahoo folders. >I don't feel it's necessary to ask permission since the poem has beautifully >promoted the book which I will undouptly buy. > >The third stanza was hilarious, and, too true. > > >From: Mark Weiss >To: BRITISH-IRISH-POETS at JISCMAIL.AC.UK; new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu; >POETICS at LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU; POETRYETC at JISCMAIL.AC.UK >Sent: Sun, December 19, 2010 6:24:01 PM >Subject: [New-Poetry] Seasons Greetings > >My only seasonal poem, as far as I can remember. > > >BY WAY OF THE SEASON > > >1 > >After its struggle the gazelle >surrenders to the lion's grip, useless >to fight. Does it think then, does it think >'if only I'd dodged to the right. If only. >Maybe next time.' >As the cat disembowels it and begins to feed. > >Farewell to the hills >farewell to the herd >farewell to water hole and tender grasses >and the joy of the young at the teat. > >2 > >At moments when the consequences of choice are upon us we say >'this can't be all there is,' but it can. Regret, nostalgia and longing, >on the other hand, are ready gifts, one can live >as if there were choices with no consequences, as if >the life could be unlived >and lived again. > >3 > >Day before Christmas in the supermarket the Stones are singing "Can't get no >satisfaction," but we try & we try & we try & and we try >and we buy something. > >4 > >No way no way >elusive as wind. > >5 > >Stories and the stories of stories. >A vocabulary of places gathered and left. >Putting death aside, one wonders whether to climb that distant hill, as in >the conservation of matter. >There are so many windows to look through. >Opposite, a building seems to wear as a crown the trees > beyond it. Close one eye or the other >to recover its true flatness. If I say >'rock dove' do you see 'pigeon?' > >6 > >No gull rests now on the cross above the church's triangular facade, but > it's apparently a perch >reserved for gulls to take turns at. >So much for religion. One prays >to invest oneself in the known and unknown places, >the simplicity of the abandoned and the immanence of ruins. >Ghost-whispers. > >'I am the demon that whimpers at night,' >he said, and the pigeons >(or doves) ride even the steepest wires. The oblique >is granted them. Across the street >in front of the travel agency >a gruff Santa makes Christmas noises >in Caribbean Spanish. For a moment I thought it the ghost >rising through the radiator from the apartment below. >He dances now to "The Entertainer" played on a portable keyboard. >Ragtime Spanish Santa from the Dominican Republic. >And what would Dominic have made of this? 'Church >of the Immaculate Deception,' he might have said. As in >'I bring you pestilence' >he might have said. >It was an epidemic of grace. > >7 > >That year three virgins bore sons. > >Zeus the King displayed his thunderbolts. >Chango fell as a shower of gold. >And Chac arrived as rain. > >Where you find it bring joy. > > > >New from Chax Press: Mark Weiss, As Landscape. >$16. Order from http://www.chax.org/poets/weiss.htm New from Chax Press: Mark Weiss, As Landscape. $16. Order from http://www.chax.org/poets/weiss.htm "What a beautiful set of circumstances! What a lovely concatenation of particulars. Here is the poet alive in every sense of the word, and through every one of his senses. Instead of missing a beat or a part, Weiss? fragments are like Chekhov?s short stories?the more that gets left out, the more they seem to contain? One can hear echoes from all the various ancestors...[but] the voice, at its center, its core, is pure Mark Weiss. His use of the fragment is both elegant and bafflingly clear, a pure musical threnody?[it] opens a window, not only into a mind, but a person, a personality, this human figure at the emotional center of the poem." M.G. Stephens, in Jacket. http://jacketmagazine.com/40/r-weiss-rb-stephens.shtml -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Mon Dec 20 15:52:09 2010 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2010 12:52:09 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] Seasons Greetings In-Reply-To: References: <56968.65765.qm@web55205.mail.re4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <164030.73112.qm@web55201.mail.re4.yahoo.com> which is a hurtful thing to do to a yahoo, but understandable. ________________________________ From: Halvard Johnson To: NewPoetry List Sent: Mon, December 20, 2010 3:35:08 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Seasons Greetings Or a person who folds yahoos. Hal "A sudden silence in the middle of a conversation suddenly brings us back to essentials: it reveals how dearly we must pay for the invention of speech." --E. M. Cioran Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com/ http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com/ http://www.hamiltonstone.org/ http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home Mainly Black, Obras P?blicas; The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets; Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones; Tango Bouquet; Theory of Harmony; Rapsodie espagnole; Guide to the Tokyo Subway; The Sonnet Project; G(e)nome; Winter Journey; Eclipse; The Dance of the Red Swan; Transparencies & Projections On Mon, Dec 20, 2010 at 2:34 PM, Halvard Johnson wrote: It's a folder full of yahoos. > > >Hal > > >"A sudden silence in the middle of a conversation >suddenly brings us back to essentials: it reveals >how dearly we must pay for the invention of speech." > > --E. M. Cioran >Halvard Johnson >================ > >halvard at gmail.com >http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home >http://entropyandme.blogspot.com >http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com >http://www.hamiltonstone.org >http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home > > > >Mainly Black, Obras P?blicas; The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other >Sonnets; >Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones; Tango Bouquet; Theory of Harmony; >Rapsodie espagnole; Guide to the Tokyo Subway; The Sonnet Project; >G(e)nome; Winter Journey; Eclipse; The Dance of the Red Swan; >Transparencies & Projections > > > > > > >On Mon, Dec 20, 2010 at 2:32 PM, Mark Weiss wrote: > >The poem isn't in a book yet. What's a yahoo folder? >> >> >>At 03:20 PM 12/20/2010, you wrote: >> >>I'll have to save this poem in one of my yahoo folders. >>>I don't feel it's necessary to ask permission since the poem has beautifully >>>promoted the book which I will undouptly buy. >>> >>>The third stanza was hilarious, and, too true. >>> >>> >>>From: Mark Weiss >>>To: BRITISH-IRISH-POETS at JISCMAIL.AC.UK; new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu; >>>POETICS at LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU; POETRYETC at JISCMAIL.AC.UK >>>Sent: Sun, December 19, 2010 6:24:01 PM >>>Subject: [New-Poetry] Seasons Greetings >>> >>>My only seasonal poem, as far as I can remember. >>> >>> >>>BY WAY OF THE SEASON >>> >>> >>>1 >>> >>>After its struggle the gazelle >>>surrenders to the lion's grip, useless >>>to fight. Does it think then, does it think >>>'if only I'd dodged to the right. If only. >>>Maybe next time.' >>>As the cat disembowels it and begins to feed. >>> >>>Farewell to the hills >>>farewell to the herd >>>farewell to water hole and tender grasses >>>and the joy of the young at the teat. >>> >>>2 >>> >>>At moments when the consequences of choice are upon us we say >>>'this can't be all there is,' but it can. Regret, nostalgia and longing, >>>on the other hand, are ready gifts, one can live >>>as if there were choices with no consequences, as if >>>the life could be unlived >>>and lived again. >>> >>>3 >>> >>>Day before Christmas in the supermarket the Stones are singing "Can't get no >>>satisfaction," but we try & we try & we try & and we try >>>and we buy something. >>> >>>4 >>> >>>No way no way >>>elusive as wind. >>> >>>5 >>> >>>Stories and the stories of stories. >>>A vocabulary of places gathered and left. >>>Putting death aside, one wonders whether to climb that distant hill, as in >>>the conservation of matter. >>>There are so many windows to look through. >>>Opposite, a building seems to wear as a crown the trees >>> beyond it. Close one eye or the other >>>to recover its true flatness. If I say >>>'rock dove' do you see 'pigeon?' >>> >>>6 >>> >>>No gull rests now on the cross above the church's triangular facade, but >>> it's apparently a perch >>>reserved for gulls to take turns at. >>>So much for religion. One prays >>>to invest oneself in the known and unknown places, >>>the simplicity of the abandoned and the immanence of ruins. >>>Ghost-whispers. >>> >>>'I am the demon that whimpers at night,' >>>he said, and the pigeons >>>(or doves) ride even the steepest wires. The oblique >>>is granted them. Across the street >>>in front of the travel agency >>>a gruff Santa makes Christmas noises >>>in Caribbean Spanish. For a moment I thought it the ghost >>>rising through the radiator from the apartment below. >>>He dances now to "The Entertainer" played on a portable keyboard. >>>Ragtime Spanish Santa from the Dominican Republic. >>>And what would Dominic have made of this? 'Church >>>of the Immaculate Deception,' he might have said. As in >>>'I bring you pestilence' >>>he might have said. >>>It was an epidemic of grace. >>> >>>7 >>> >>>That year three virgins bore sons. >>> >>>Zeus the King displayed his thunderbolts. >>>Chango fell as a shower of gold. >>>And Chac arrived as rain. >>> >>>Where you find it bring joy. >>> >>> >>> >>>New from Chax Press: Mark Weiss, As Landscape. >>>$16. Order from http://www.chax.org/poets/weiss.htm > > >New from Chax Press: Mark Weiss, As Landscape. >$16. Order from http://www.chax.org/poets/weiss.htm > > >"What a beautiful set of circumstances! What a lovely concatenation of >particulars. Here is the poet alive in every sense of the word, and through >every one of his senses. Instead of missing a beat or a part, Weiss? fragments >are like Chekhov?s short stories?the more that gets left out, the more they seem >to contain? One can hear echoes from all the various ancestors...[but] the >voice, at its center, its core, is pure Mark Weiss. His use of the fragment is >both elegant and bafflingly clear, a pure musical threnody?[it] opens a window, >not only into a mind, but a person, a personality, this human figure at the >emotional center of the poem." > >M.G. Stephens, in Jacket. http://jacketmagazine.com/40/r-weiss-rb-stephens.shtml > >>_______________________________________________ >>New-Poetry mailing list >>New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From junction at earthlink.net Mon Dec 20 16:33:50 2010 From: junction at earthlink.net (Mark Weiss) Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2010 16:33:50 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Seasons Greetings In-Reply-To: <275267.78149.qm@web55205.mail.re4.yahoo.com> References: <56968.65765.qm@web55205.mail.re4.yahoo.com> <275267.78149.qm@web55205.mail.re4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Sounds good. Let it out for air once in a while. At 03:48 PM 12/20/2010, you wrote: >i see. > >a yahoo folder is simply a folder one keeps and >stores stuff in on Yahoo e-mail. >i can delete the thing if it violates some sort of intellectual property. >not that the poem would go anywhere or do >anything of any significance, having protective custody in my folder. > > > >From: Mark Weiss >To: NewPoetry List >Sent: Mon, December 20, 2010 3:32:58 PM >Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Seasons Greetings > >The poem isn't in a book yet. What's a yahoo folder? > >At 03:20 PM 12/20/2010, you wrote: >>I'll have to save this poem in one of my yahoo folders. >>I don't feel it's necessary to ask permission >>since the poem has beautifully promoted the book which I will undouptly buy. >>The third stanza was hilarious, and, too true. >> >> >>From: Mark Weiss >>To: BRITISH-IRISH-POETS at JISCMAIL.AC.UK; >>new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu; >>POETICS at LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU; POETRYETC at JISCMAIL.AC.UK >>Sent: Sun, December 19, 2010 6:24:01 PM >>Subject: [New-Poetry] Seasons Greetings >> >>My only seasonal poem, as far as I can remember. >> >> >>BY WAY OF THE SEASON >> >> >>1 >> >>After its struggle the gazelle >>surrenders to the lion's grip, useless >>to fight. Does it think then, does it think >>'if only I'd dodged to the right. If only. >>Maybe next time.' >>As the cat disembowels it and begins to feed. >> >>Farewell to the hills >>farewell to the herd >>farewell to water hole and tender grasses >>and the joy of the young at the teat. >> >>2 >> >>At moments when the consequences of choice are upon us we say >>'this can't be all there is,' but it can. Regret, nostalgia and longing, >>on the other hand, are ready gifts, one can live >>as if there were choices with no consequences, as if >>the life could be unlived >>and lived again. >> >>3 >> >>Day before Christmas in the supermarket the Stones are singing "Can't get no >>satisfaction," but we try & we try & we try & and we try >>and we buy something. >> >>4 >> >>No way no way >>elusive as wind. >> >>5 >> >>Stories and the stories of stories. >>A vocabulary of places gathered and left. >>Putting death aside, one wonders whether to climb that distant hill, as in >>the conservation of matter. >>There are so many windows to look through. >>Opposite, a building seems to wear as a crown the trees >> beyond it. Close one eye or the other >>to recover its true flatness. If I say >>'rock dove' do you see 'pigeon?' >> >>6 >> >>No gull rests now on the cross above the church's triangular facade, but >> it's apparently a perch >>reserved for gulls to take turns at. >>So much for religion. One prays >>to invest oneself in the known and unknown places, >>the simplicity of the abandoned and the immanence of ruins. >>Ghost-whispers. >> >>'I am the demon that whimpers at night,' >>he said, and the pigeons >>(or doves) ride even the steepest wires. The oblique >>is granted them. Across the street >>in front of the travel agency >>a gruff Santa makes Christmas noises >>in Caribbean Spanish. For a moment I thought it the ghost >>rising through the radiator from the apartment below. >>He dances now to "The Entertainer" played on a portable keyboard. >>Ragtime Spanish Santa from the Dominican Republic. >>And what would Dominic have made of this? 'Church >>of the Immaculate Deception,' he might have said. As in >>'I bring you pestilence' >>he might have said. >>It was an epidemic of grace. >> >>7 >> >>That year three virgins bore sons. >> >>Zeus the King displayed his thunderbolts. >>Chango fell as a shower of gold. >>And Chac arrived as rain. >> >>Where you find it bring joy. >> >> >> >>New from Chax Press: Mark Weiss, As Landscape. >>$16. Order from >>http://www.chax.org/poets/weiss.htm > > > >New from Chax Press: Mark Weiss, As Landscape. >$16. Order from >http://www.chax.org/poets/weiss.htm > > >"What a beautiful set of circumstances! What a >lovely concatenation of particulars. Here is the >poet alive in every sense of the word, and >through every one of his senses. Instead of >missing a beat or a part, Weiss??? fragments are >like Chekhov???s short stories??the more that >gets left out, the more they seem to contain >One can hear echoes from all the various >ancestors...[but] the voice, at its center, its >core, is pure Mark Weiss. His use of the >fragment is both elegant and bafflingly clear, a >pure musical threnody ?[it] opens a window, not >only into a mind, but a person, a personality, >this human figure at the emotional center of the poem." > >M.G. Stephens, in Jacket. >http://jacketmagazine.com/40/r-weiss-rb-stephens.shtml > >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry New from Chax Press: Mark Weiss, As Landscape. $16. Order from http://www.chax.org/poets/weiss.htm "What a beautiful set of circumstances! What a lovely concatenation of particulars. Here is the poet alive in every sense of the word, and through every one of his senses. Instead of missing a beat or a part, Weiss? fragments are like Chekhov?s short stories?the more that gets left out, the more they seem to contain One can hear echoes from all the various ancestors...[but] the voice, at its center, its core, is pure Mark Weiss. His use of the fragment is both elegant and bafflingly clear, a pure musical threnody [it] opens a window, not only into a mind, but a person, a personality, this human figure at the emotional center of the poem." M.G. Stephens, in Jacket. http://jacketmagazine.com/40/r-weiss-rb-stephens.shtml -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From barry.spacks at verizon.net Mon Dec 20 15:44:53 2010 From: barry.spacks at verizon.net (Barry Spacks) Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2010 12:44:53 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] Christmas Greetings to the Poetry Folks In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <448BC1F7-FD62-485F-ABCA-050E0E1A55A0@verizon.net> RECALLING MR. FROST for Nick and Eva Linfield A dauntless taper on a Christmas tree where apples hang with old world stars of straw brings Mr. Frost to mind -- his blazonry -- for though the other wicks give up to smoke this last grows strong as if to tease the law we alter by, and challenging its gist burns on and on: the flicker of a joke in favor of presuming to persist. No miracles seem likely in our day; no dove-fire eloquence or shaken flow of flame tongues. Some achieve a wry display burning for meaning bravely as they go out to the dark that waits beyond each door as if to tell us what a light is for. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From obodooha at gmail.com Tue Dec 21 09:34:14 2010 From: obodooha at gmail.com (Obododimma Oha) Date: Tue, 21 Dec 2010 06:34:14 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] My Christmas Is Noisier Than Yours Message-ID: "Christ is born in Bethlehem, a choir sings. But, hold it there! Bethlehem is no other place than my village in Anambra State, Nigeria. If you say that is a lie, then you would be the one to pay the ten-ten-thousand-Naira-plus-five-cartons-of-beer fine that the Development Union of my village has slammed upon any member not found in the village this Christmas for the launch of a new project. Yes, ?TEN-TEN thousand Naira? fine plus-or-minus the usual gragra from the Union?s Executive and harassment by the Provost, the official police officer of the Union." Read the full text of "My Christmas Is Noisier Than Yours" at: http://234next.com/csp/cms/sites/Next/Opinion/Columns/5655950-146/story.csp -- *Obododimma Oha* http://udude.wordpress.com/ (*Associate Professor of Cultural Semiotics & Stylistics*) Dept. of English University of Ibadan Nigeria & *Fellow*, Centre for Peace & Conflict Studies University of Ibadan Phone: +234 803 333 1330; +234 805 350 6604; +234 808 264 8060. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Tue Dec 21 17:16:45 2010 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Tue, 21 Dec 2010 17:16:45 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] WorldPo: Nigeria's JP Clark Message-ID: <8CD6F73E3150B87-918-21D8@webmail-m060.sysops.aol.com> http://allafrica.com/stories/201012201076.html In Clark 's poetic world man is not in romantic and idyllic isolation. He is situated in nature that constitutes simultaneously his own (morbid) physiology and the environment. His poem, Ibadan, for example, is first about the beauty of a democratic landscape, where the modern and the ancient share the same neighborhoods, the rusty, the decayed and the new stand shoulder to shoulder; where the rich and the poor snuggle together in the same space, rust and gold. It is a poetic tour de town planner. Ibadan, splash of rust and gold - flung and scattered among seven hills like broken china in the sun. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tad at opus40.org Tue Dec 21 17:20:29 2010 From: tad at opus40.org (Tad Richards) Date: Tue, 21 Dec 2010 17:20:29 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Art Message-ID: What is artistically good is whatever articulates and presents feeling to our understanding. *Susanne Langer*, 1895 - 1985 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From junction at earthlink.net Tue Dec 21 17:44:33 2010 From: junction at earthlink.net (Mark Weiss) Date: Tue, 21 Dec 2010 17:44:33 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Art In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Now if I only knew what she meant by "good," "articulate," "present," "feeling" and "understanding." I think I understand the rest. At 05:20 PM 12/21/2010, you wrote: >What is artistically good is whatever >articulates and presents feeling to our understanding. > Susanne Langer, 1895 - 1985 >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry New from Chax Press: Mark Weiss, As Landscape. $16. Order from http://www.chax.org/poets/weiss.htm "What a beautiful set of circumstances! What a lovely concatenation of particulars. Here is the poet alive in every sense of the word, and through every one of his senses. Instead of missing a beat or a part, Weiss? fragments are like Chekhov?s short stories?the more that gets left out, the more they seem to contain One can hear echoes from all the various ancestors...[but] the voice, at its center, its core, is pure Mark Weiss. His use of the fragment is both elegant and bafflingly clear, a pure musical threnody [it] opens a window, not only into a mind, but a person, a personality, this human figure at the emotional center of the poem." M.G. Stephens, in Jacket. http://jacketmagazine.com/40/r-weiss-rb-stephens.shtml -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tad at opus40.org Tue Dec 21 18:04:33 2010 From: tad at opus40.org (Tad Richards) Date: Tue, 21 Dec 2010 18:04:33 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Art In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hey, she was a philosopher. She didn't have to mean anything. On Tue, Dec 21, 2010 at 5:44 PM, Mark Weiss wrote: > Now if I only knew what she meant by "good," "articulate," "present," > "feeling" and "understanding." I think I understand the rest. > > > At 05:20 PM 12/21/2010, you wrote: > > What is artistically good is whatever articulates and presents feeling to > our understanding. > *Susanne Langer*, 1895 - 1985 > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > New from Chax Press: Mark Weiss, *As Landscape. > *$16. Order from http://www.chax.org/poets/weiss.htm > > > "What a beautiful set of circumstances! What a lovely concatenation of > particulars. Here is the poet alive in every sense of the word, and through > every one of his senses. Instead of missing a beat or a part, Weiss? > fragments are like Chekhov?s short stories?the more that gets left out, the > more they seem to contain? One can hear echoes from all the various > ancestors...[but] the voice, at its center, its core, is pure Mark Weiss. > His use of the fragment is both elegant and bafflingly clear, a pure musical > threnody?[it] opens a window, not only into a mind, but a person, a > personality, this human figure at the emotional center of the poem." > > M.G. Stephens, in Jacket. > http://jacketmagazine.com/40/r-weiss-rb-stephens.shtml > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at gmail.com Tue Dec 21 18:21:37 2010 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Tue, 21 Dec 2010 17:21:37 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Art In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I'd agree, Mark, but I'd also like to know what "is" means. Hal "A sudden silence in the middle of a conversation suddenly brings us back to essentials: it reveals how dearly we must pay for the invention of speech." --E. M. Cioran Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home *Mainly Black , **Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ;* *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; * ***Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; * ***G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; * *Transparencies & Projections * On Tue, Dec 21, 2010 at 4:44 PM, Mark Weiss wrote: > Now if I only knew what she meant by "good," "articulate," "present," > "feeling" and "understanding." I think I understand the rest. > > > At 05:20 PM 12/21/2010, you wrote: > > What is artistically good is whatever articulates and presents feeling to > our understanding. > *Susanne Langer*, 1895 - 1985 > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > New from Chax Press: Mark Weiss, *As Landscape. > *$16. Order from http://www.chax.org/poets/weiss.htm > > > "What a beautiful set of circumstances! What a lovely concatenation of > particulars. Here is the poet alive in every sense of the word, and through > every one of his senses. Instead of missing a beat or a part, Weiss? > fragments are like Chekhov?s short stories?the more that gets left out, the > more they seem to contain? One can hear echoes from all the various > ancestors...[but] the voice, at its center, its core, is pure Mark Weiss. > His use of the fragment is both elegant and bafflingly clear, a pure musical > threnody?[it] opens a window, not only into a mind, but a person, a > personality, this human figure at the emotional center of the poem." > > M.G. Stephens, in Jacket. > http://jacketmagazine.com/40/r-weiss-rb-stephens.shtml > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From junction at earthlink.net Tue Dec 21 18:22:35 2010 From: junction at earthlink.net (Mark Weiss) Date: Tue, 21 Dec 2010 18:22:35 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Art In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: And "our." At 06:21 PM 12/21/2010, you wrote: >I'd agree, Mark, but I'd also like to know what "is" means. > >Hal > >"A sudden silence in the middle of a conversation >suddenly brings us back to essentials: it reveals >how dearly we must pay for the invention of speech." > > --E. M. Cioran > >Halvard Johnson >================ > >halvard at gmail.com >http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home >http://entropyandme.blogspot.com >http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com >http://www.hamiltonstone.org >http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home > >Mainly >Black, >Obras >P?blicas; >The >Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets; >Organ >Harvest with Entrance of Clones; >Tango >Bouquet; >Theory >of Harmony; >Rapsodie >espagnole; >Guide >to the Tokyo Subway; >The >Sonnet Project; >G(e)nome; >Winter >Journey; >Eclipse; >The Dance of the Red Swan; >Transparencies & Projections > > > > >On Tue, Dec 21, 2010 at 4:44 PM, Mark Weiss ><junction at earthlink.net> wrote: >Now if I only knew what she meant by "good," >"articulate," "present," "feeling" and >"understanding." I think I understand the rest. > > >At 05:20 PM 12/21/2010, you wrote: >>What is artistically good is whatever >>articulates and presents feeling to our understanding. >> Susanne Langer, 1895 - 1985 >>_______________________________________________ >>New-Poetry mailing list >>New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > >New from Chax Press: Mark Weiss, As Landscape. >$16. Order from >http://www.chax.org/poets/weiss.htm > > >"What a beautiful set of circumstances! What a >lovely concatenation of particulars. Here is the >poet alive in every sense of the word, and >through every one of his senses. Instead of >missing a beat or a part, Weiss? fragments are >like Chekhov?s short stories?the more that gets >left out, the more they seem to contain One can >hear echoes from all the various >ancestors...[but] the voice, at its center, its >core, is pure Mark Weiss. His use of the >fragment is both elegant and bafflingly clear, a >pure musical threnody [it] opens a window, not >only into a mind, but a person, a personality, >this human figure at the emotional center of the poem." > >M.G. Stephens, in Jacket. >http://jacketmagazine.com/40/r-weiss-rb-stephens.shtml > >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry New from Chax Press: Mark Weiss, As Landscape. $16. Order from http://www.chax.org/poets/weiss.htm "What a beautiful set of circumstances! What a lovely concatenation of particulars. Here is the poet alive in every sense of the word, and through every one of his senses. Instead of missing a beat or a part, Weiss? fragments are like Chekhov?s short stories?the more that gets left out, the more they seem to contain One can hear echoes from all the various ancestors...[but] the voice, at its center, its core, is pure Mark Weiss. His use of the fragment is both elegant and bafflingly clear, a pure musical threnody [it] opens a window, not only into a mind, but a person, a personality, this human figure at the emotional center of the poem." M.G. Stephens, in Jacket. http://jacketmagazine.com/40/r-weiss-rb-stephens.shtml -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From robin.hamilton3 at virginmedia.com Tue Dec 21 18:28:10 2010 From: robin.hamilton3 at virginmedia.com (Robin Hamilton) Date: Tue, 21 Dec 2010 18:28:10 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Art In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8A73DFC1353446C9AEF8C5C62F4F62B2@RobinLaptopPC> Hey, she was a philosopher. She didn't have to mean anything. Also she was a student and later colleague of Ernst Cassirier, so many of her ideas emerged from the Renaissance iconographic tradition. Robin On Tue, Dec 21, 2010 at 5:44 PM, Mark Weiss wrote: Now if I only knew what she meant by "good," "articulate," "present," "feeling" and "understanding." I think I understand the rest. At 05:20 PM 12/21/2010, you wrote: What is artistically good is whatever articulates and presents feeling to our understanding. Susanne Langer, 1895 - 1985 _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry New from Chax Press: Mark Weiss, As Landscape. $16. Order from http://www.chax.org/poets/weiss.htm "What a beautiful set of circumstances! What a lovely concatenation of particulars. Here is the poet alive in every sense of the word, and through every one of his senses. Instead of missing a beat or a part, Weiss? fragments are like Chekhov?s short stories?the more that gets left out, the more they seem to contain? One can hear echoes from all the various ancestors...[but] the voice, at its center, its core, is pure Mark Weiss. His use of the fragment is both elegant and bafflingly clear, a pure musical threnody?[it] opens a window, not only into a mind, but a person, a personality, this human figure at the emotional center of the poem." M.G. Stephens, in Jacket. http://jacketmagazine.com/40/r-weiss-rb-stephens.shtml _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From junction at earthlink.net Tue Dec 21 18:41:04 2010 From: junction at earthlink.net (Mark Weiss) Date: Tue, 21 Dec 2010 18:41:04 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Art In-Reply-To: <8A73DFC1353446C9AEF8C5C62F4F62B2@RobinLaptopPC> References: <8A73DFC1353446C9AEF8C5C62F4F62B2@RobinLaptopPC> Message-ID: It's because of Ernst Cassirer that I stopped smoking. Few philosophers could boast anything similar. At 06:28 PM 12/21/2010, you wrote: > Hey, she was a philosopher. She didn't have to mean anything. > >Also she was a student and later colleague of >Ernst Cassirier, so many of her ideas emerged >from the Renaissance iconographic tradition. > >Robin >On Tue, Dec 21, 2010 at 5:44 PM, Mark Weiss ><junction at earthlink.net> wrote: >Now if I only knew what she meant by "good," >"articulate," "present," "feeling" and >"understanding." I think I understand the rest. > > >At 05:20 PM 12/21/2010, you wrote: >>What is artistically good is whatever >>articulates and presents feeling to our understanding. >> Susanne Langer, 1895 - 1985 >>_______________________________________________ >>New-Poetry mailing list >>New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > >New from Chax Press: Mark Weiss, As Landscape. >$16. Order from >http://www.chax.org/poets/weiss.htm > > >"What a beautiful set of circumstances! What a >lovely concatenation of particulars. Here is the >poet alive in every sense of the word, and >through every one of his senses. Instead of >missing a beat or a part, Weiss? fragments are >like Chekhov?s short stories?the more that gets >left out, the more they seem to contain One can >hear echoes from all the various >ancestors...[but] the voice, at its center, its >core, is pure Mark Weiss. His use of the >fragment is both elegant and bafflingly clear, a >pure musical threnody [it] opens a window, not >only into a mind, but a person, a personality, >this human figure at the emotional center of the poem." > >M.G. Stephens, in Jacket. >http://jacketmagazine.com/40/r-weiss-rb-stephens.shtml > >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > >---------- >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry New from Chax Press: Mark Weiss, As Landscape. $16. Order from http://www.chax.org/poets/weiss.htm "What a beautiful set of circumstances! What a lovely concatenation of particulars. Here is the poet alive in every sense of the word, and through every one of his senses. Instead of missing a beat or a part, Weiss? fragments are like Chekhov?s short stories?the more that gets left out, the more they seem to contain One can hear echoes from all the various ancestors...[but] the voice, at its center, its core, is pure Mark Weiss. His use of the fragment is both elegant and bafflingly clear, a pure musical threnody [it] opens a window, not only into a mind, but a person, a personality, this human figure at the emotional center of the poem." M.G. Stephens, in Jacket. http://jacketmagazine.com/40/r-weiss-rb-stephens.shtml -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Tue Dec 21 18:51:17 2010 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Tue, 21 Dec 2010 18:51:17 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Muldoon's Maggot Message-ID: <8CD6F81180D722E-898-470F@webmail-d046.sysops.aol.com> http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/arts/wit-worms-its-way-into-death-and-decay/story-e6frg8nf-1225973070694 Wit worms its way into death and decay Felicity Plunkett The Australian December 18, 2010 MAGGOT, by Paul Muldoon, Faber & Faber, 120pp, $35 (HB) MAGGOTS burgeon where form and flesh disintegrate. Because they only consume necrotic tissue, maggots are sometimes introduced into wounds to initiate the healing process. My first thought on opening Maggot, Paul Muldoon's 11th book of poems, was to wonder what maggots have to do with poetry. By the end, Muldoon dazzlingly replaces this with another question: what don't maggots have to do with poetry? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Tue Dec 21 19:16:42 2010 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Tue, 21 Dec 2010 19:16:42 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Art In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8CD6F84A4C36865-898-4B16@webmail-d046.sysops.aol.com> Here I have to say (pace Bob) words are themselves categories. I do know what is 'present'. I certainly 'feel'. I 'understand' only so far as I'm capable of such experience. And the 'good', well is one word (as we can see since Plato vis a vis Socrates) that will be debated and bandied about forever. I noticed no one questioned the word 'art' (as in artistically)? Perhaps the most suspect word in Langer's statement. Hoping that was 'articulated'. Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: Mark Weiss To: NewPoetry List Sent: Tue, Dec 21, 2010 6:22 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Art And "our." At 06:21 PM 12/21/2010, you wrote: I'd agree, Mark, but I'd also like to know what "is" means. Hal "A sudden silence in the middle of a conversation suddenly brings us back to essentials: it reveals how dearly we must pay for the invention of speech." --E. M. Cioran Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home Mainly Black, Obras P?blicas; The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets; Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones; Tango Bouquet; Theory of Harmony; Rapsodie espagnole; Guide to the Tokyo Subway; The Sonnet Project; G(e)nome; Winter Journey; Eclipse; The Dance of the Red Swan; Transparencies & Projections On Tue, Dec 21, 2010 at 4:44 PM, Mark Weiss wrote: Now if I only knew what she meant by "good," "articulate," "present," "feeling" and "understanding." I think I understand the rest. At 05:20 PM 12/21/2010, you wrote: What is artistically good is whatever articulates and presents feeling to our understanding. Susanne Langer, 1895 - 1985 _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry New from Chax Press: Mark Weiss, As Landscape. $16. Order from http://www.chax.org/poets/weiss.htm "What a beautiful set of circumstances! What a lovely concatenation of particulars. Here is the poet alive in every sense of the word, and through every one of his senses. Instead of missing a beat or a part, Weiss? fragments are like Chekhov?s short stories?the more that gets left out, the more they seem to contain? One can hear echoes from all the various ancestors...[but] the voice, at its center, its core, is pure Mark Weiss. His use of the fragment is both elegant and bafflingly clear, a pure musical threnody?[it] opens a window, not only into a mind, but a person, a personality, this human figure at the emotional center of the poem." M.G. Stephens, in Jacket. http://jacketmagazine.com/40/r-weiss-rb-stephens.shtml _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry New from Chax Press: Mark Weiss, As Landscape. $16. Order from http://www.chax.org/poets/weiss.htm "What a beautiful set of circumstances! What a lovely concatenation of particulars. Here is the poet alive in every sense of the word, and through every one of his senses. Instead of missing a beat or a part, Weiss? fragments are like Chekhov?s short stories?the more that gets left out, the more they seem to contain? One can hear echoes from all the various ancestors...[but] the voice, at its center, its core, is pure Mark Weiss. His use of the fragment is both elegant and bafflingly clear, a pure musical threnody?[it] opens a window, not only into a mind, but a person, a personality, this human figure at the emotional center of the poem." M.G. Stephens, in Jacket. http://jacketmagazine.com/40/r-weiss-rb-stephens.shtml _______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tad at opus40.org Tue Dec 21 19:18:25 2010 From: tad at opus40.org (Tad Richards) Date: Tue, 21 Dec 2010 19:18:25 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Art In-Reply-To: <8A73DFC1353446C9AEF8C5C62F4F62B2@RobinLaptopPC> References: <8A73DFC1353446C9AEF8C5C62F4F62B2@RobinLaptopPC> Message-ID: Now if I could only figure out what Robin means by iconographic and tradition. On Tue, Dec 21, 2010 at 6:28 PM, Robin Hamilton < robin.hamilton3 at virginmedia.com> wrote: > Hey, she was a philosopher. She didn't have to mean anything. > > Also she was a student and later colleague of Ernst Cassirier, so many of > her ideas emerged from the Renaissance iconographic tradition. > > Robin > > On Tue, Dec 21, 2010 at 5:44 PM, Mark Weiss wrote: > >> Now if I only knew what she meant by "good," "articulate," "present," >> "feeling" and "understanding." I think I understand the rest. >> >> >> At 05:20 PM 12/21/2010, you wrote: >> >> What is artistically good is whatever articulates and presents feeling to >> our understanding. >> *Susanne Langer*, 1895 - 1985 >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> >> >> New from Chax Press: Mark Weiss, *As Landscape. >> *$16. Order from http://www.chax.org/poets/weiss.htm >> >> >> "What a beautiful set of circumstances! What a lovely concatenation of >> particulars. Here is the poet alive in every sense of the word, and through >> every one of his senses. Instead of missing a beat or a part, Weiss? >> fragments are like Chekhov?s short stories?the more that gets left out, the >> more they seem to contain? One can hear echoes from all the various >> ancestors...[but] the voice, at its center, its core, is pure Mark Weiss. >> His use of the fragment is both elegant and bafflingly clear, a pure musical >> threnody?[it] opens a window, not only into a mind, but a person, a >> personality, this human figure at the emotional center of the poem." >> >> M.G. Stephens, in Jacket. >> http://jacketmagazine.com/40/r-weiss-rb-stephens.shtml >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From GrahamD at ripon.edu Tue Dec 21 19:19:21 2010 From: GrahamD at ripon.edu (Graham, David) Date: Tue, 21 Dec 2010 18:19:21 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Art In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <0362688F-CD66-4AD8-B7D6-13968DB258F5@ripon.edu> "Whatever what is is Is what I want." --Galway Kinnell (from memory-- maybe not accurate. But I am sure there were 3 "is"s =================== David Graham Grahamd at ripon.edu Home page: http://web.me.com/drjazz ==================== On Dec 21, 2010, at 5:21 PM, "Halvard Johnson" wrote: > I'd agree, Mark, but I'd also like to know what "is" means. > > Hal > > "A sudden silence in the middle of a conversation > suddenly brings us back to essentials: it reveals > how dearly we must pay for the invention of speech." > --E. M. Cioran > > > Halvard Johnson > ================ > > halvard at gmail.com > http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > http://www.hamiltonstone.org > http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home > > Mainly Black, Obras P?blicas; The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets; > Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones; Tango Bouquet; Theory of Harmony; > Rapsodie espagnole; Guide to the Tokyo Subway; The Sonnet Project; > G(e)nome; Winter Journey; Eclipse; The Dance of the Red Swan; > Transparencies & Projections > > > > > On Tue, Dec 21, 2010 at 4:44 PM, Mark Weiss wrote: > Now if I only knew what she meant by "good," "articulate," "present," "feeling" and "understanding." I think I understand the rest. > > > At 05:20 PM 12/21/2010, you wrote: >> What is artistically good is whatever articulates and presents feeling to our understanding. >> Susanne Langer, 1895 - 1985 >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > New from Chax Press: Mark Weiss, As Landscape. > $16. Order from http://www.chax.org/poets/weiss.htm > > > "What a beautiful set of circumstances! What a lovely concatenation of particulars. Here is the poet alive in every sense of the word, and through every one of his senses. Instead of missing a beat or a part, Weiss? fragments are like Chekhov?s short stories the more that gets left out, the more they seem to contain? One can hear echoes from all the various ancestors...[but] the voice, at its center, its core, is pure Mark Weiss. His use of the fragment is both elegant and bafflingly clear, a pure musical threnody?[it] opens a window, not only into a mind, but a person, a personality, this human figure at the emotional center of the poem." > > M.G. Stephens, in Jacket. http://jacketmagazine.com/40/r-weiss-rb-stephens.shtml > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From htthinc at gmail.com Tue Dec 21 20:42:07 2010 From: htthinc at gmail.com (Paul Howell) Date: Tue, 21 Dec 2010 20:42:07 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Muldoon's Maggot In-Reply-To: <8CD6F81180D722E-898-470F@webmail-d046.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CD6F81180D722E-898-470F@webmail-d046.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: Thanks for this. Good stuff. On Tue, Dec 21, 2010 at 6:51 PM, wrote: > > http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/arts/wit-worms-its-way-into-death-and-decay/story-e6frg8nf-1225973070694 > Wit worms its way into death and decay > Felicity Plunkett > The Australian December 18, 2010 > MAGGOT, by Paul Muldoon, Faber & Faber, 120pp, $35 (HB) > > MAGGOTS burgeon where form and flesh disintegrate. Because they only > consume necrotic tissue, maggots are sometimes introduced into wounds to > initiate the healing process. > > My first thought on opening Maggot, Paul Muldoon's 11th book of poems, was > to wonder what maggots have to do with poetry. By the end, Muldoon > dazzlingly replaces this with another question: what don't maggots have to > do with poetry? > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Tue Dec 21 20:48:36 2010 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Tue, 21 Dec 2010 20:48:36 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Art In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4D1158F4.7030807@nut-n-but.net> On 12/21/2010 6:04 PM, Tad Richards wrote: > Hey, she was a philosopher. She didn't have to mean anything. She was a philogusher, not a philosopher. --Bob From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Tue Dec 21 20:55:46 2010 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Tue, 21 Dec 2010 20:55:46 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Art In-Reply-To: <4D1158F4.7030807@nut-n-but.net> References: <4D1158F4.7030807@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <4D115AA2.1080401@nut-n-but.net> I think she's making the profound statement that "." is not art, but "!" is. --Bob From jforjames at aol.com Tue Dec 21 20:55:21 2010 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Tue, 21 Dec 2010 20:55:21 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Words In-Reply-To: <4D1158F4.7030807@nut-n-but.net> References: <4D1158F4.7030807@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <8CD6F926CCFBCA6-898-5CC9@webmail-d046.sysops.aol.com> Emerson loved language as much as any poet does, but he understood that reality is larger than language. If you call a dog?s tail a leg, how many legs does the dog have? The answer is four. Calling a tail a leg does not make it one. ?All language,? says Emerson in ?The Poet,? ?is vehicular and transitive, and is good, as horses and ferries are, for conveyance, not as farms and houses are, for homestead.? Emerson did care for language?a great deal?but he always insisted that words do not exist as things in themselves, but stand for things which are finally more real than the words. --Robert D. Richardson, First We Read, Then We Write: Emerson on the Creative Process (U. of Iowa Press, 2009) -----Original Message----- From: Bob Grumman To: NewPoetry List Sent: Tue, Dec 21, 2010 8:48 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Art On 12/21/2010 6:04 PM, Tad Richards wrote: > Hey, she was a philosopher. She didn't have to mean anything. She was a philogusher, not a philosopher. --Bob _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From robin.hamilton3 at virginmedia.com Tue Dec 21 21:26:11 2010 From: robin.hamilton3 at virginmedia.com (Robin Hamilton) Date: Tue, 21 Dec 2010 21:26:11 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Art In-Reply-To: <4D1158F4.7030807@nut-n-but.net> References: <4D1158F4.7030807@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <0ECFF97472994E9090F38A843206B5CF@RobinLaptopPC> > On 12/21/2010 6:04 PM, Tad Richards wrote: >> Hey, she was a philosopher. She didn't have to mean anything. > > She was a philogusher, not a philosopher. > > --Bob Well, at three large volumes, _Mind_ weighs in as a pretty extended gush. But you're quite right to question her scholarly and philosophical credentials, Bob -- she trained in history of ideas in the Warburg tradition, not what we all know is the Only True Philosophy, French post-structuralism out of Derrida. Next, we'll be expected to have read Beardsley's _Aesthetics_, and then what would the world come to? Robin From sheilafblack at hotmail.com Tue Dec 21 22:58:06 2010 From: sheilafblack at hotmail.com (sheila black) Date: Wed, 22 Dec 2010 03:58:06 +0000 Subject: [New-Poetry] Art In-Reply-To: <0ECFF97472994E9090F38A843206B5CF@RobinLaptopPC> References: , , <4D1158F4.7030807@nut-n-but.net>, <0ECFF97472994E9090F38A843206B5CF@RobinLaptopPC> Message-ID: Look at Rare High Meadow of Which I Might Dream by Connie Voisine--the book is anchored by three long poems based on retellings of Marie de France. Also the long poems in Melissa Kwasny's Reading Novalis in Montana.... Sheila > From: robin.hamilton3 at virginmedia.com > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Date: Tue, 21 Dec 2010 21:26:11 -0500 > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Art > > > On 12/21/2010 6:04 PM, Tad Richards wrote: > >> Hey, she was a philosopher. She didn't have to mean anything. > > > > She was a philogusher, not a philosopher. > > > > --Bob > > Well, at three large volumes, _Mind_ weighs in as a pretty extended gush. > > But you're quite right to question her scholarly and philosophical > credentials, Bob -- she trained in history of ideas in the Warburg > tradition, not what we all know is the Only True Philosophy, French > post-structuralism out of Derrida. > > Next, we'll be expected to have read Beardsley's _Aesthetics_, and then what > would the world come to? > > Robin > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sheilafblack at hotmail.com Tue Dec 21 23:00:02 2010 From: sheilafblack at hotmail.com (sheila black) Date: Wed, 22 Dec 2010 04:00:02 +0000 Subject: [New-Poetry] Art In-Reply-To: <0ECFF97472994E9090F38A843206B5CF@RobinLaptopPC> References: , , <4D1158F4.7030807@nut-n-but.net>, <0ECFF97472994E9090F38A843206B5CF@RobinLaptopPC> Message-ID: Oops--please disregard my last message. I somehow replied to the wrong listserv!--a request for long poems by women. My recommendations are great, but.... Sheila > From: robin.hamilton3 at virginmedia.com > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Date: Tue, 21 Dec 2010 21:26:11 -0500 > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Art > > > On 12/21/2010 6:04 PM, Tad Richards wrote: > >> Hey, she was a philosopher. She didn't have to mean anything. > > > > She was a philogusher, not a philosopher. > > > > --Bob > > Well, at three large volumes, _Mind_ weighs in as a pretty extended gush. > > But you're quite right to question her scholarly and philosophical > credentials, Bob -- she trained in history of ideas in the Warburg > tradition, not what we all know is the Only True Philosophy, French > post-structuralism out of Derrida. > > Next, we'll be expected to have read Beardsley's _Aesthetics_, and then what > would the world come to? > > Robin > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From robin.hamilton3 at virginmedia.com Tue Dec 21 23:06:51 2010 From: robin.hamilton3 at virginmedia.com (Robin Hamilton) Date: Tue, 21 Dec 2010 23:06:51 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Art In-Reply-To: References: , , <4D1158F4.7030807@nut-n-but.net>, <0ECFF97472994E9090F38A843206B5CF@RobinLaptopPC> Message-ID: <0C7F5E2353D24553B280C10424BE4DAF@RobinLaptopPC> Actually, it did seem to connect, Sheila, via poems which draw on a knowledge of a set of cultural texts and traditions. Though it did leave me scratching my head at your succinctness. Robin ----- Original Message ----- From: sheila black To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Tuesday, December 21, 2010 11:00 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Art Oops--please disregard my last message. I somehow replied to the wrong listserv!--a request for long poems by women. My recommendations are great, but.... Sheila > From: robin.hamilton3 at virginmedia.com > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Date: Tue, 21 Dec 2010 21:26:11 -0500 > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Art > > > On 12/21/2010 6:04 PM, Tad Richards wrote: > >> Hey, she was a philosopher. She didn't have to mean anything. > > > > She was a philogusher, not a philosopher. > > > > --Bob > > Well, at three large volumes, _Mind_ weighs in as a pretty extended gush. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Wed Dec 22 06:07:43 2010 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Wed, 22 Dec 2010 06:07:43 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Words In-Reply-To: <8CD6F926CCFBCA6-898-5CC9@webmail-d046.sysops.aol.com> References: <4D1158F4.7030807@nut-n-but.net> <8CD6F926CCFBCA6-898-5CC9@webmail-d046.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <4D11DBFF.4030305@nut-n-but.net> On 12/21/2010 8:55 PM, jforjames at aol.com wrote: > Emerson loved language as much as any poet does, but he understood > that reality is larger than language. If you call a dog?s tail a leg, > how many legs does the dog have? The answer is four. Calling a tail a > leg does not make it one. ?All language,? says Emerson in ?The Poet,? > ?is vehicular and transitive, and is good, as horses and ferries are, > for conveyance, not as farms and houses are, for homestead.? Emerson > did care for language?a great deal?but he always insisted that words > do not exist as things in themselves, but /stand for things/ which are > finally more real than the words. > --Robert D. Richardson, /First We Read, Then We Write: Emerson on the > Creative Process/ (U. of Iowa Press, 2009) Things are not more real than words, they are different from words. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Wed Dec 22 06:15:42 2010 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Wed, 22 Dec 2010 06:15:42 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Art In-Reply-To: <0ECFF97472994E9090F38A843206B5CF@RobinLaptopPC> References: <4D1158F4.7030807@nut-n-but.net> <0ECFF97472994E9090F38A843206B5CF@RobinLaptopPC> Message-ID: <4D11DDDE.1020204@nut-n-but.net> On 12/21/2010 9:26 PM, Robin Hamilton wrote: >> On 12/21/2010 6:04 PM, Tad Richards wrote: >>> Hey, she was a philosopher. She didn't have to mean anything. >> >> She was a philogusher, not a philosopher. >> >> --Bob > > Well, at three large volumes, _Mind_ weighs in as a pretty extended gush. When you just let it flow, length is easy. > > But you're quite right to question her scholarly and philosophical > credentials, Bob -- she trained in history of ideas in the Warburg > tradition, not what we all know is the Only True Philosophy, French > post-structuralism out of Derrida. > Not I. That may be, for me, the most pseudo of any philosophy. > Next, we'll be expected to have read Beardsley's _Aesthetics_, and > then what would the world come to? > > Robin I don't know Beardsley. I've mostly only thought about aesthetics, not read it, and can't think of any authority on it I admire--because I'm not familiar with the field, not because there aren't any good ones. I enjoyed Santayana's book about it but didn't think he said anything very profound. --Bob From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Wed Dec 22 06:17:28 2010 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Wed, 22 Dec 2010 06:17:28 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Art In-Reply-To: References: , , <4D1158F4.7030807@nut-n-but.net>, <0ECFF97472994E9090F38A843206B5CF@RobinLaptopPC> Message-ID: <4D11DE48.1090100@nut-n-but.net> On 12/21/2010 11:00 PM, sheila black wrote: > Oops--please disregard my last message. I somehow replied to the > wrong listserv!--a request for long poems by women. My > recommendations are great, but.... > > Sheila Whew. I know I don't know that much about the relevant literature re: Art, but . . . --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Wed Dec 22 13:30:16 2010 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Wed, 22 Dec 2010 13:30:16 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Words In-Reply-To: <4D11DBFF.4030305@nut-n-but.net> References: <4D1158F4.7030807@nut-n-but.net><8CD6F926CCFBCA6-898-5CC9@webmail-d046.sysops.aol.com> <4D11DBFF.4030305@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <8CD701D69C53030-920-EDC6@webmail-d068.sysops.aol.com> It may be too late for your holiday gift list, but I would recommend First We Read, Then We Write: Emerson on the Creative Process, It's a quick and enjoyable read (a short book), and chockfull of good/useful Emerson quotes. Richardson wrote a biography of Emerson a few years ago (Mind on Fire, I believe was the title, which I didn't finish for some reason...probably just got put aside). I guess he just used his research notes to create a small book specific to Emerson's thoughts on writing. Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: Bob Grumman To: NewPoetry List Sent: Wed, Dec 22, 2010 6:07 am Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Words On 12/21/2010 8:55 PM, jforjames at aol.com wrote: Emerson loved language as much as any poet does, but he understood that reality is larger than language. If you call a dog?s tail a leg, how many legs does the dog have? The answer is four. Calling a tail a leg does not make it one. ?All language,? says Emerson in ?The Poet,? ?is vehicular and transitive, and is good, as horses and ferries are, for conveyance, not as farms and houses are, for homestead.? Emerson did care for language?a great deal?but he always insisted that words do not exist as things in themselves, but stand for things which are finally more real than the words. --Robert D. Richardson, First We Read, Then We Write: Emerson on the Creative Process (U. of Iowa Press, 2009) Things are not more real than words, they are different from words. --Bob _______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Wed Dec 22 13:41:08 2010 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Wed, 22 Dec 2010 13:41:08 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Art In-Reply-To: <4D11DDDE.1020204@nut-n-but.net> References: <4D1158F4.7030807@nut-n-but.net><0ECFF97472994E9090F38A843206B5CF@RobinLaptopPC> <4D11DDDE.1020204@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <8CD701EEDD43B76-920-F018@webmail-d068.sysops.aol.com> I wholeheartedly recommend Feeling & Form... http://artcanon.wordpress.com/2010/02/19/susanne-langer/ Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: Bob Grumman To: NewPoetry List Sent: Wed, Dec 22, 2010 6:15 am Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Art On 12/21/2010 9:26 PM, Robin Hamilton wrote: >> On 12/21/2010 6:04 PM, Tad Richards wrote: >>> Hey, she was a philosopher. She didn't have to mean anything. >> >> She was a philogusher, not a philosopher. >> >> --Bob > > Well, at three large volumes, _Mind_ weighs in as a pretty extended gush. When you just let it flow, length is easy. > > But you're quite right to question her scholarly and philosophical > credentials, Bob -- she trained in history of ideas in the Warburg > tradition, not what we all know is the Only True Philosophy, French > post-structuralism out of Derrida. > Not I. That may be, for me, the most pseudo of any philosophy. > Next, we'll be expected to have read Beardsley's _Aesthetics_, and > then what would the world come to? > > Robin I don't know Beardsley. I've mostly only thought about aesthetics, not read it, and can't think of any authority on it I admire--because I'm not familiar with the field, not because there aren't any good ones. I enjoyed Santayana's book about it but didn't think he said anything very profound. --Bob _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Wed Dec 22 13:48:43 2010 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Wed, 22 Dec 2010 13:48:43 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] WorldPo: Israel, not pols but pos to grace currency Message-ID: <8CD701FFDC2A193-920-F246@webmail-d068.sysops.aol.com> http://articles.latimes.com/2010/dec/21/world/la-fg-israel-banknotes-20101222 Several weeks ago, a new recommendation leaked to the media: Hebrew poets ? two men, two women ? would adorn the bills. As a poet, Eliaz Cohen was flattered that members of his profession could be honored. "Sadly, poetry has come down from its glory, no longer the talk of parlors and cafes as it was in the past. This restores some pride, a very satisfying tribute," he said, noting that although poetry's popularity is down, poets still enjoy a special public standing. But as a citizen, Cohen was dismayed that the government was so quick to give up on leaders, itself a sign of insecure leadership. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From acgold01 at louisville.edu Wed Dec 22 13:52:31 2010 From: acgold01 at louisville.edu (Alan C Golding) Date: Wed, 22 Dec 2010 13:52:31 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] "Next, we'll be expected to have read Beardsley's _Aesthetics_, and then what Message-ID: <4D12029B.AC48.0004.1@gwise.louisville.edu> "Next, we'll be expected to have read Beardsley's _Aesthetics_, and then what would the world come to?" "Beardsley" being Monroe C., I take it, not Aubrey. Don't hear his name much these days. ("His" being either one of them, I suppose.) Alan From alexdickow9 at yahoo.com Wed Dec 22 15:15:49 2010 From: alexdickow9 at yahoo.com (Alexander Dickow) Date: Wed, 22 Dec 2010 12:15:49 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] feedback on a poem Message-ID: <451755.73076.qm@web35507.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hi NewPo folks, I thought I'd request some feedback on this one, which I'm a bit unsure about. One of these is?an authentic exam question/response (from a French ESL student). Thanks in advance! Amicalement, Alex Civilization of the Anglophone World: Exam 1 ? Briefly describe what is meant by the north- South divide in England. The north-south di Vide in England refers to the ancient Edge between the Southern England (the Wales), And the Northern England (the Scotland). ? How did the industrial revolution play a role in the development of the British Empire? Great Britain became enriched Because the industrial revolution discovered petrol. ? What were the Maori Wars in New Zealand? Maori were a kind of movement to make the King. This provoked to conflicts, who had violence. ? Briefly explain the Viking invasion. When those Vikings in 1492 invade the Norway, therefore they will be adopted the red and yellow stripes flag. ? In your opinion, what ancient edge Was playing a role against the King? The industrial empire. ? Why Ireland was separating in the two parts? Whereas the country were torn into single pieces from the World War One, the Ulster fight for independence against IRA. That happen after Act of Union earlier which many person didn?t want. It was the civil war. Also, several volunteers participate. ? Compare the two charts Below during answering To the questions. ? Chart A shows the many person which volunteer in civil war between the Scotland and Maoris, nowadays against in the past. ? And chart B shows violence that most enrich the ancient edges of my red and yellow stripes flag, it shows my discovered petrol growing up during a hundred years long, it was the civil war. ? How has your north-south divide become enriched? I was a kind of movement, I provoked to conflict, I have violence, to make the King.? ? www.alexdickow.net/blog/ les mots! ah quel d?sert ? la fin merveilleux. -- Henri Droguet -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at gmail.com Wed Dec 22 16:23:39 2010 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Wed, 22 Dec 2010 15:23:39 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Art In-Reply-To: <8CD701EEDD43B76-920-F018@webmail-d068.sysops.aol.com> References: <4D1158F4.7030807@nut-n-but.net> <0ECFF97472994E9090F38A843206B5CF@RobinLaptopPC> <4D11DDDE.1020204@nut-n-but.net> <8CD701EEDD43B76-920-F018@webmail-d068.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: *Philosophy in a New Key* is a good one by her too. Hal "A sudden silence in the middle of a conversation suddenly brings us back to essentials: it reveals how dearly we must pay for the invention of speech." --E. M. Cioran Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home *Mainly Black , **Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ;* *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; * ***Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; * ***G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; * *Transparencies & Projections * On Wed, Dec 22, 2010 at 12:41 PM, wrote: > I wholeheartedly recommend Feeling & Form... > http://artcanon.wordpress.com/2010/02/19/susanne-langer/ > Finnegan > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Bob Grumman > To: NewPoetry List > Sent: Wed, Dec 22, 2010 6:15 am > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Art > > On 12/21/2010 9:26 PM, Robin Hamilton wrote: > >> On 12/21/2010 6:04 PM, Tad Richards wrote: > >>> Hey, she was a philosopher. She didn't have to mean anything. > >> > >> She was a philogusher, not a philosopher. > >> > >> --Bob > > > > Well, at three large volumes, _Mind_ weighs in as a pretty extended > gush. > > When you just let it flow, length is easy. > > > > > But you're quite right to question her scholarly and philosophical > > credentials, Bob -- she trained in history of ideas in the Warburg > > tradition, not what we all know is the Only True Philosophy, French > > post-structuralism out of Derrida. > > > Not I. That may be, for me, the most pseudo of any philosophy. > > > > Next, we'll be expected to have read Beardsley's _Aesthetics_, and > then > what would the world come to? > > > > Robin > I don't know Beardsley. I've mostly only thought about aesthetics, not read > it, and can't think of any authority on it I admire--because I'm not > familiar with the field, not because there aren't any good ones. I enjoyed > Santayana's book about it but didn't think he said anything very profound. > > --Bob > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From junction at earthlink.net Wed Dec 22 16:25:30 2010 From: junction at earthlink.net (Mark Weiss) Date: Wed, 22 Dec 2010 16:25:30 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Art In-Reply-To: References: <4D1158F4.7030807@nut-n-but.net> <0ECFF97472994E9090F38A843206B5CF@RobinLaptopPC> <4D11DDDE.1020204@nut-n-but.net> <8CD701EEDD43B76-920-F018@webmail-d068.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: My clowning around was purely about the statement taken out of context. Philosophers usually define their terms. At 04:23 PM 12/22/2010, you wrote: >Philosophy in a New Key is a good one by her too. > >Hal > >"A sudden silence in the middle of a conversation >suddenly brings us back to essentials: it reveals >how dearly we must pay for the invention of speech." > > --E. M. Cioran > >Halvard Johnson >================ > >halvard at gmail.com >http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home >http://entropyandme.blogspot.com >http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com >http://www.hamiltonstone.org >http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home > >Mainly >Black, >Obras >P?blicas; >The >Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets; >Organ >Harvest with Entrance of Clones; >Tango >Bouquet; >Theory >of Harmony; >Rapsodie >espagnole; >Guide >to the Tokyo Subway; >The >Sonnet Project; >G(e)nome; >Winter >Journey; >Eclipse; >The Dance of the Red Swan; >Transparencies & Projections > > > > >On Wed, Dec 22, 2010 at 12:41 PM, ><jforjames at aol.com> wrote: >I wholeheartedly recommend Feeling & Form... >http://artcanon.wordpress.com/2010/02/19/susanne-langer/ >Finnegan > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Bob Grumman <bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net> >To: NewPoetry List ><new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu> >Sent: Wed, Dec 22, 2010 6:15 am >Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Art > >On 12/21/2010 9:26 PM, Robin Hamilton wrote: > >> On 12/21/2010 6:04 PM, Tad Richards wrote: > >>> Hey, she was a philosopher. She didn't have to mean anything. > >> > >> She was a philogusher, not a philosopher. > >> > >> --Bob > > > > Well, at three large volumes, _Mind_ weighs in as a pretty extended gush. > >When you just let it flow, length is easy. > > > > > But you're quite right to question her > scholarly and philosophical > credentials, Bob > -- she trained in history of ideas in the > Warburg > tradition, not what we all know is > the Only True Philosophy, French > post-structuralism out of Derrida. > > >Not I. That may be, for me, the most pseudo of any philosophy. > > > > Next, we'll be expected to have read > Beardsley's _Aesthetics_, and > then what would the world come to? > > > > Robin >I don't know Beardsley. I've mostly only thought >about aesthetics, not read it, and can't think >of any authority on it I admire--because I'm not >familiar with the field, not because there >aren't any good ones. I enjoyed Santayana's book >about it but didn't think he said anything very profound. > >--Bob >_______________________________________________ > >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry New from Chax Press: Mark Weiss, As Landscape. $16. Order from http://www.chax.org/poets/weiss.htm "What a beautiful set of circumstances! What a lovely concatenation of particulars. Here is the poet alive in every sense of the word, and through every one of his senses. Instead of missing a beat or a part, Weiss? fragments are like Chekhov?s short stories?the more that gets left out, the more they seem to contain One can hear echoes from all the various ancestors...[but] the voice, at its center, its core, is pure Mark Weiss. His use of the fragment is both elegant and bafflingly clear, a pure musical threnody [it] opens a window, not only into a mind, but a person, a personality, this human figure at the emotional center of the poem." M.G. Stephens, in Jacket. http://jacketmagazine.com/40/r-weiss-rb-stephens.shtml -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From robin.hamilton3 at virginmedia.com Wed Dec 22 16:32:30 2010 From: robin.hamilton3 at virginmedia.com (Robin Hamilton) Date: Wed, 22 Dec 2010 16:32:30 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] "Next, we'll be expected to have read Beardsley's _Aesthetics_, , and then what In-Reply-To: <4D12029B.AC48.0004.1@gwise.louisville.edu> References: <4D12029B.AC48.0004.1@gwise.louisville.edu> Message-ID: <2FE5864BE55647B1936BC1EE5AE58465@RobinLaptopPC> Yeah, currently aesthetics is the new pornography, unmentioned and unmentionable. Monroe C. is also the Beardsley half of Wimsatt and Beardsley, "The Concept of Metre: An Essay in Abstraction", possibly the most significant single work to be written about metrics. Robin ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alan C Golding" To: Sent: Wednesday, December 22, 2010 1:52 PM Subject: [New-Poetry] "Next,we'll be expected to have read Beardsley's _Aesthetics_,and then what > "Next, we'll be expected to have read Beardsley's _Aesthetics_, and then > what > would the world come to?" > > "Beardsley" being Monroe C., I take it, not Aubrey. Don't hear his > name much these days. ("His" being either one of them, I suppose.) > > Alan > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Wed Dec 22 17:17:32 2010 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Wed, 22 Dec 2010 23:17:32 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Spencer Selby's Message-ID: new Blog: ALMES ALT RESEARCH http://spencerselby.blogspot.com/ -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Wed Dec 22 19:03:37 2010 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Wed, 22 Dec 2010 19:03:37 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Art In-Reply-To: References: <4D1158F4.7030807@nut-n-but.net><0ECFF97472994E9090F38A843206B5 CF@RobinLaptopPC><4D11DDDE.1020204@nut-n-but.net><8CD701EEDD43B76-920-F018@webmail-d068.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <4D1291D9.90403@nut-n-but.net> On 12/22/2010 4:23 PM, Halvard Johnson wrote: > /Philosophy in a New Key/ is a good one by her too. > > Hal Oh, boy, a book I've actually read that I can diss. I don't remember much about it but found her insistence on the difference of signs from symbols silly. Symbols are just signs with neckties on. She seems to me generally to make extremely vague, essentially meaningless statements like the one that started this thread, that please those that want to feel ideas, not think about them. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Wed Dec 22 19:05:11 2010 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Wed, 22 Dec 2010 19:05:11 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Art In-Reply-To: References: <4D1158F4.7030807@nut-n-but.net><0ECFF97472994E9090F38A843206B5 CF@RobinLaptopPC><4D11DDDE.1020204@nut-n-but.net><8CD701EEDD43B76-920-F018@webmail-d068.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <4D129237.10203@nut-n-but.net> On 12/22/2010 4:25 PM, Mark Weiss wrote: > My clowning around was purely about the statement taken out of > context. Philosophers usually define their terms. I'm not sure she ever does so satisfactorily. Talks a lot about feeling. Whatever that is, it's what works of art express. --Bob > > At 04:23 PM 12/22/2010, you wrote: >> /Philosophy in a New Key/ is a good one by her too. >> >> Hal >> >> "A sudden silence in the middle of a conversation >> suddenly brings us back to essentials: it reveals >> how dearly we must pay for the invention of speech." >> >> --E. M. Cioran >> >> Halvard Johnson >> ================ >> >> halvard at gmail.com >> http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home >> http://entropyandme.blogspot.com >> http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com >> >> http://www.hamiltonstone.org >> http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home >> >> /Mainly Black >> , >> Obras P?blicas >> ; >> The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets >> ; >> Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones >> ; >> Tango Bouquet >> ; >> Theory of Harmony >> ; >> >> Rapsodie espagnole >> ; >> Guide to the Tokyo Subway >> ; >> The Sonnet Project >> ; >> >> G(e)nome ; Winter >> Journey ; Eclipse >> ; The Dance of the Red >> Swan ; >> Transparencies & Projections >> >> / >> >> >> >> On Wed, Dec 22, 2010 at 12:41 PM, > > wrote: >> >> I wholeheartedly recommend Feeling & Form... >> http://artcanon.wordpress.com/2010/02/19/susanne-langer/ >> Finnegan >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Bob Grumman > > >> To: NewPoetry List > > >> Sent: Wed, Dec 22, 2010 6:15 am >> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Art >> >> On 12/21/2010 9:26 PM, Robin Hamilton wrote: >> >> On 12/21/2010 6:04 PM, Tad Richards wrote: >> >>> Hey, she was a philosopher. She didn't have to mean anything. >> >> >> >> She was a philogusher, not a philosopher. >> >> >> >> --Bob >> > >> > Well, at three large volumes, _Mind_ weighs in as a pretty >> extended gush. >> >> When you just let it flow, length is easy. >> >> > >> > But you're quite right to question her scholarly and >> philosophical > credentials, Bob -- she trained in history of >> ideas in the Warburg > tradition, not what we all know is the >> Only True Philosophy, French > post-structuralism out of Derrida. >> > >> Not I. That may be, for me, the most pseudo of any philosophy. >> >> >> > Next, we'll be expected to have read Beardsley's _Aesthetics_, >> and > then what would the world come to? >> > >> > Robin >> I don't know Beardsley. I've mostly only thought about >> aesthetics, not read it, and can't think of any authority on it I >> admire--because I'm not familiar with the field, not because >> there aren't any good ones. I enjoyed Santayana's book about it >> but didn't think he said anything very profound. >> >> --Bob >> _______________________________________________ >> >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > New from Chax Press: Mark Weiss, /As Landscape. > /$16. Order from http://www.chax.org/poets/weiss.htm > > > "What a beautiful set of circumstances! What a lovely concatenation of > particulars. Here is the poet alive in every sense of the word, and > through every one of his senses. Instead of missing a beat or a part, > Weiss' fragments are like Chekhov's short stories?the more that gets > left out, the more they seem to contain... One can hear echoes from > all the various ancestors...[but] the voice, at its center, its core, > is pure Mark Weiss. His use of the fragment is both elegant and > bafflingly clear, a pure musical threnody...[it] opens a window, not > only into a mind, but a person, a personality, this human figure at > the emotional center of the poem." > > M.G. Stephens, in Jacket. > http://jacketmagazine.com/40/r-weiss-rb-stephens.shtml > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Wed Dec 22 19:31:38 2010 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Wed, 22 Dec 2010 19:31:38 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Spencer Selby's In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4D12986A.6090700@nut-n-but.net> On 12/22/2010 5:17 PM, Anny Ballardini wrote: > new Blog: > ALMES ALT RESEARCH > http://spencerselby.blogspot.com/ STAY AWAY FROM THIS GUY--HE'S ONE OF MINE! --Bob From robin.hamilton3 at virginmedia.com Wed Dec 22 19:43:48 2010 From: robin.hamilton3 at virginmedia.com (Robin Hamilton) Date: Wed, 22 Dec 2010 19:43:48 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Art In-Reply-To: <4D1291D9.90403@nut-n-but.net> References: <4D1158F4.7030807@nut-n-but.net><0ECFF97472994E9090F38A843206B5CF@RobinLaptopPC><4D11DDDE.1020204@nut-n-but.net><8CD701EEDD43B76-920-F018@webmail-d068.sysops.aol.com> <4D1291D9.90403@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <58DC196E1EBB453E993B027B81863A2E@RobinLaptopPC> << On 12/22/2010 4:23 PM, Halvard Johnson wrote: Philosophy in a New Key is a good one by her too. Hal Oh, boy, a book I've actually read that I can diss. I don't remember much about it but found her insistence on the difference of signs from symbols silly. Symbols are just signs with neckties on. >> Um, yeah, well ... As I'm still trying to sort out in my head, and have been for coming on for forty years now, the exact difference between the sign/symbol distinction in Pierce and Saussure (I tend towards Saussure), maybe I should have another look at Langer and see if she manages to square the circle. I'd never thought of her in terms of semiotics, silly me, so thanks to Bob for drawing me back to this. But as to, "Symbols are just signs with neckties on," well, no. One way of putting it (and here my fundamentalist Saussurean side is showing, as I'd couch it this way) would be that symbols participate in systemic relations, whereas signs are essentially indexical. (Do I mean indexical?) It's the difference between a fully fledged language and a series of grunts. Whether of course, such a difference is important to Bob is another matter. Robin ______________________ She seems to me generally to make extremely vague, essentially meaningless statements like the one that started this thread, that please those that want to feel ideas, not think about them. --Bob From editor at pavementsaw.org Wed Dec 22 21:07:59 2010 From: editor at pavementsaw.org (David Baratier) Date: Wed, 22 Dec 2010 18:07:59 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] Pavement Saw Chapbook Deadline 12/31 Message-ID: <525501.4325.qm@web45615.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Pavement Saw Chapbook Contest: Deadline 12/31 <<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Submit electronically, save the hassle of printing out a manuscript and have your funds support poetry not the post office! Directly enter by using our website http://www.pavementsaw.org/pages/chapcontest.htm $500 and 50 copies of the winning chapbook will be awarded to the winner. In addition to the prize winner, at least one other manuscript will be published under a standard royalty contract (author paid 10% of press run). Everyone is allowed to submit regardless of previous publication history. Every entrant will receive the equivalent cost of the entry fee in Pavement Saw Press titles. Unlike many publishers whose collections are printed one copy at a time and therefore lack a large circulation, our chapbooks are published in a first edition of 400 copies plus overage. While chapbooks rarely receive exposure, ours have been reviewed in Poets and Writers, Publishers Weekly, The Georgia Review, Small Press Review and many others. Our previous winners have had subsequent full length books appear from a bevy of publishers including Curbstone Press, Cleveland State University Press, Bear Star Press, University of Georgia, and Hanging Loose Press. Submit up to 32 pages of poetry. Include a signed cover letter with your name, address, phone number, e-mail, publication credits, a brief biography and the title of the chapbook. Include a cover page with your contact information and the chapbook title. Include a second page with the chapbook title only. Do not include your name on any pages inside the manuscript except for the first title page. No need for a contents page. All chapbooks are selected blindly / anonymously. Manuscripts will be considered until December 31st, 2010. Entry fee: $15 for US entries, $18 overseas, $21 electronic (world wide). If you wish to submit electronically, send $21.00 via paypal to info at pavementsaw.org. Then e-mail the manuscript as an attachment to the same address and we will send you an e-mail confirmation that your entry is all set. Electronic submissions need to be sent as PDF files or as word (.doc or .docx) files. Other formats are not accepted. The extra cost is to cover the paypal fees as well as the time, labor, ink, and so on, to print out your manuscript. Or use our website http://www.pavementsaw.org/pages/chapcontest.htm If you wish to send via regular mail accompany your manuscript with a check in the amount of $15.00 payable to Pavement Saw Press. All contributors to the contest will receive books, chapbooks and journals equal to, or more than, the entry fee. Add $3 (US) for other countries to cover the extra postal charge. Do not include an SASE for notification of results. Do not send the only copy of your work. All manuscripts are recycled and individual comments on the manuscripts cannot be made. This year the editor will be the judge and, as it should be, he promises not to chose former students, former or potential sexual partners, press interns, or people that can make him famous. A decision will be reached in March. Entries should be sent to our address at the bottom of the page. Previous Winners Martin Arnold, A Million Distant Glittering Catastrophes; Brian Teare, >; Noah Eli Gordon, Acoustic Experience; Susan Terris, Marriage License; Dan Boehl, Work; Joshua Corey, Compostition Marble; Knute Skinner, The Other Shoe; Lisa Samuels, War Holdings; F. J. Bergmann, Sauce Robert; John Bradley, Add Musk Here; Amy King, The People Instruments; Will Nixon, The Fish are Laughing; Shelley Stenhouse, Pants; David Brooks, Right Livelihood; Douglas Goetsch, Wherever You Want; Joshua Mc Kinney, Permutations of the Gallery. Pavement Saw Press Chapbook Contest 321 Empire Street Montpelier, OH 43543 http://www.pavementsaw.org/pages/chapcontest.htm From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Wed Dec 22 22:18:56 2010 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Wed, 22 Dec 2010 22:18:56 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Art In-Reply-To: <58DC196E1EBB453E993B027B81863A2E@RobinLaptopPC> References: <4D1158F4.7030807@nut-n-but.net><0ECFF97472994E9090F38A843206B5 CF@RobinLaptopPC><4D11DDDE.1020204@nut-n-but.net><8CD701EEDD43B76-920-F018@webmail-d068.sysops.aol.com><4D1291D9.90403@nut-n-but.net> <58DC196E1EBB453E993B027B81863A2E@RobinLaptopPC> Message-ID: <4D12BFA0.7090109@nut-n-but.net> On 12/22/2010 7:43 PM, Robin Hamilton wrote: > << > On 12/22/2010 4:23 PM, Halvard Johnson wrote: > Philosophy in a New Key is a good one by her too. > > Hal > > Oh, boy, a book I've actually read that I can diss. I don't remember > much about it but found her insistence on the difference of signs from > symbols silly. Symbols are just signs with neckties on. >>> > > Um, yeah, well ... As I'm still trying to sort out in my head, and > have been for coming on for forty years now, the exact difference > between the sign/symbol distinction in Pierce and Saussure (I tend > towards Saussure), maybe I should have another look at Langer and see > if she manages to square the circle. I'd never thought of her in > terms of semiotics, silly me, so thanks to Bob for drawing me back to > this. > > But as to, "Symbols are just signs with neckties on," well, no. One > way of putting it (and here my fundamentalist Saussurean side is > showing, as I'd couch it this way) would be that symbols participate > in systemic relations, whereas signs are essentially indexical. (Do I > mean indexical?) It's the difference between a fully fledged language > and a series of grunts. Everything is a name. Some names name larger things than other names. You may be talking about the same thing I do when I mention the difference between typological and taxonomical terms. I probably am misusing the first of these when I take it to mean a term based on what the thing named by it is without reference to how it relates to other things; the other I'm sure I have right when I take it to mean what the ting named is AND how it relates to other things. But both kinds of terms are signs or tags. My impression of the belief in symbols as special is that it is a silly way of raising human being above animals--yes, grunts. I suppose you can claim there's a difference between symbols and signs. I still say it's just a necktie. I doubt I'll ever accept the difference as one in kind. Single grunts expressing emotion, grunt-combinations expressing emotion, single grunts expressing things, single grunts expressing actions, plus new shapes of grunts, all slowly up to signs for signs, etc.. > > Whether of course, such a difference is important to Bob is another > matter. > > Robin In my neurophysiology, symbols are at most simply tags the brain uses for slightly larger bits of reality than signs do, abstract relationships being considered part of reality. --Bob From robin.hamilton3 at virginmedia.com Wed Dec 22 23:25:21 2010 From: robin.hamilton3 at virginmedia.com (Robin Hamilton) Date: Wed, 22 Dec 2010 23:25:21 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Art In-Reply-To: <4D12BFA0.7090109@nut-n-but.net> References: <4D1158F4.7030807@nut-n-but.net><0ECFF97472994E9090F38A843206B5CF@RobinLaptopPC><4D11DDDE.1020204@nut-n-but.net><8CD701EEDD43B76-920-F018@webmail-d068.sysops.aol.com><4D1291D9.90403@nut-n-but.net><58DC196E1EBB453E993B027B81863A2E@RobinLaptopPC> <4D12BFA0.7090109@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <0D61867600DF44BB9A9AC37DC71E86AF@RobinLaptopPC> Hey, do you know, Bob, just before I came upstairs and read this, I suddenly thought, "*That's why Bob can't see any point to the difference between signs and symbols, since his entire taxonomy is based on labels pure and simple." Then you say what you do below, which at least puts it clearly. The problem is that we're so far apart here that I'm not sure there's any space or common ground for useful dialogue in this area. Maybe we should stick to arguing about Concrete Poetry. Best, Robin [As, 'frinstance, earlier tonight I'd been thinking about how M.A.K.Halliday's remark that "Lexis is the most delicate grammar" applies to cant terms for Standard English "man", where it's not just that there's a lexical choice between "cully" and "cove", but that the choice of that *set of terms is itself a choice of one kind of language (cant) over another (Standard colloquial English), then I read this: > Everything is a name. Some names name larger things than other names. Gee! It seems that all I have to do is take "man", "cove", and "cully" out for a walk and hang them round the neck of the nearest male person I encounter, and there will be my problem solved. Who would have thought it were so easy!!! R.] ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Grumman" To: "NewPoetry List" Sent: Wednesday, December 22, 2010 10:18 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Art > On 12/22/2010 7:43 PM, Robin Hamilton wrote: >> << >> On 12/22/2010 4:23 PM, Halvard Johnson wrote: >> Philosophy in a New Key is a good one by her too. >> >> Hal >> >> Oh, boy, a book I've actually read that I can diss. I don't remember >> much about it but found her insistence on the difference of signs from >> symbols silly. Symbols are just signs with neckties on. >>>> >> >> Um, yeah, well ... As I'm still trying to sort out in my head, and have >> been for coming on for forty years now, the exact difference between the >> sign/symbol distinction in Pierce and Saussure (I tend towards Saussure), >> maybe I should have another look at Langer and see if she manages to >> square the circle. I'd never thought of her in terms of semiotics, silly >> me, so thanks to Bob for drawing me back to this. >> >> But as to, "Symbols are just signs with neckties on," well, no. One way >> of putting it (and here my fundamentalist Saussurean side is showing, as >> I'd couch it this way) would be that symbols participate in systemic >> relations, whereas signs are essentially indexical. (Do I mean >> indexical?) It's the difference between a fully fledged language and a >> series of grunts. > Everything is a name. Some names name larger things than other names. > You may be talking about the same thing I do when I mention the difference > between typological and taxonomical terms. I probably am misusing the > first of these when I take it to mean a term based on what the thing named > by it is without reference to how it relates to other things; the other > I'm sure I have right when I take it to mean what the ting named is AND > how it relates to other things. But both kinds of terms are signs or > tags. > > My impression of the belief in symbols as special is that it is a silly > way of raising human being above animals--yes, grunts. I suppose you can > claim there's a difference between symbols and signs. I still say it's > just a necktie. I doubt I'll ever accept the difference as one in kind. > Single grunts expressing emotion, grunt-combinations expressing emotion, > single grunts expressing things, single grunts expressing actions, plus > new shapes of grunts, all slowly up to signs for signs, etc.. > >> >> Whether of course, such a difference is important to Bob is another >> matter. >> >> Robin > > In my neurophysiology, symbols are at most simply tags the brain uses for > slightly larger bits of reality than signs do, abstract relationships > being considered part of reality. > > --Bob > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From alexdickow9 at yahoo.com Thu Dec 23 06:39:52 2010 From: alexdickow9 at yahoo.com (Alexander Dickow) Date: Thu, 23 Dec 2010 03:39:52 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] marco: feedback Message-ID: <278812.43903.qm@web35502.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hello New-Pos, Is it safe to assume that a request for feedback on a poem that receives no response on a poetry listserv means "back to the drawing board"? Thanks for your input, and as Catherine Daly mockingly put it to me recently: MARCO? Amicalement, Alex ? www.alexdickow.net/blog/ les mots! ah quel d?sert ? la fin merveilleux. -- Henri Droguet -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Thu Dec 23 06:47:38 2010 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Thu, 23 Dec 2010 06:47:38 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Art In-Reply-To: <0D61867600DF44BB9A9AC37DC71E86AF@RobinLaptopPC> References: <4D1158F4.7030807@nut-n-but.net><0ECFF97472994E9090F38A843206B5 CF@RobinLaptopPC><4D11DDDE.1020204@nut-n-but.net><8CD701EEDD43B76-920-F018@webmail-d068.sysops.aol.com><4D1291D9.90403@nut-n-but.net><58DC196E1EBB453E993B027B81863A2E@RobinLaptopPC><4D12BFA0.7 090109@nut-n-but.net> <0D61867600DF44BB9A9AC37DC71E86AF@RobinLaptopPC> Message-ID: <4D1336DA.1050009@nut-n-but.net> > Hey, do you know, Bob, just before I came upstairs and read this, I > suddenly thought, "*That's why Bob can't see any point to the > difference between signs and symbols, since his entire taxonomy is > based on labels pure and simple." Maybe "entire" is wrong, I'm not sure. But, yes, I start with the assumption that there's a reality and we have words that we apply to it. Oh, and I've developed a theoretical neurophysiology based on it--your "man/cully/cove" hits your eyeball, that sends stimulation to certain brain-cells and they in turn light up other brain cells, among them ones for your three words--and tags for them, such as what part of speech each is. And connections to all possible contexts for the stimulus are potentiated (if that's a word). > > Then you say what you do below, which at least puts it clearly. > > The problem is that we're so far apart here that I'm not sure there's > any space or common ground for useful dialogue in this area. > > Maybe we should stick to arguing about Concrete Poetry. > Nah. We could argue about your wife's view of who wrote Shakespeare. > [As, 'frinstance, earlier tonight I'd been thinking about how > M.A.K.Halliday's remark that "Lexis is the most delicate grammar" > applies to cant terms for Standard English "man", where it's not just > that there's a lexical choice between "cully" and "cove", but that the > choice of that *set of terms is itself a choice of one kind of > language (cant) over another (Standard colloquial English), then I > read this: So what? They're all names. > >> Everything is a name. Some names name larger things than other names. > > Gee! It seems that all I have to do is take "man", "cove", and > "cully" out for a walk and hang them round the neck of the nearest > male person I encounter, and there will be my problem solved. > I'm not sure what your problem is. If the male is all three of those things, and you want to communicate to someone who knows your three words something meaningful about the male you meant but aren't concerned with presenting a complete analysis of him, your problem /is/ solved. If you want words to communicate enough to identify him perfectly to a friend, you can describe him in more detail, perhaps with a few paragraphs about his fingerprints or genotype. > Who would have thought it were so easy!!! I realize I'm back where thoughts about language started, but it's always possible that linguistics went wrong through over-complication. The only reason for words is to communicate. That takes lots of different words and ways of arranging them but I just can't see that it isn't at base simply naming, even when a name takes a paragraph or book to render. I would be very interested to know exactly what you need to solve your problem besides names. Can you, uh, name one thing? I sincerely have no idea what else is needed. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Thu Dec 23 07:13:26 2010 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Thu, 23 Dec 2010 07:13:26 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] marco: feedback In-Reply-To: <278812.43903.qm@web35502.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <278812.43903.qm@web35502.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4D133CE6.5040307@nut-n-but.net> > Hello New-Pos, > Is it safe to assume that a request for feedback on a poem that > receives no response on a poetry listserv means "back to the drawing > board"? Not necessarily. I thought it was interesting but needed time to think about it. (Then got side-tracked.) I found it amusing. Like /1066 and All That/, But I also read it as possibly showing the evolution of stupidity . . . except that the answers didn't really become increasingly stupid, just turned stupid and stayed there. Correctly spelled, which didn't seem right. I felt you were probably trying to suggest a certain kind of stupidity having to do with politics that I don't feel like getting into. Overall, I wasn't sure exactly where you were going, as my comments may well indicate. But, hey, it has potential! all best, Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From alexdickow9 at yahoo.com Thu Dec 23 07:30:46 2010 From: alexdickow9 at yahoo.com (Alexander Dickow) Date: Thu, 23 Dec 2010 04:30:46 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] marco: feedback In-Reply-To: <4D133CE6.5040307@nut-n-but.net> References: <278812.43903.qm@web35502.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <4D133CE6.5040307@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <950672.7820.qm@web35507.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Bob, Amusing is good. I think you situated the problem: there's no evolution, no movement to the piece; it needs to evolve (it tries to, but doesn't quite manage to go anywhere). It's less about stupidity than about how flavorful these little rewritings of geopolitics and history can be when reimagined in immature minds, which i find have a sort of poetry to them.?No politics, really, if not to show how little ability to think politically students?of 18 years old happen to have.? I'll see what I can do?with it. Thanks for the comments....others welcome (although I'll be incommunicado for a few days) --?happy holidays. Amicalement, Alex ? www.alexdickow.net/blog/ les mots! ah quel d?sert ? la fin merveilleux. -- Henri Droguet ________________________________ From: Bob Grumman To: NewPoetry List Sent: Thu, December 23, 2010 1:13:26 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] marco: feedback Hello New-Pos, >Is it safe to assume that a request for feedback on a poem that receives no >response on a poetry listserv means "back to the drawing board"? >Not necessarily. ?I thought it was interesting but needed time to think about >it. ?(Then got side-tracked.) I found it amusing. ?Like 1066 and All That, ?But I also read it as possibly showing the evolution of stupidity . . . except that the answers didn't really become increasingly stupid, just turned stupid and stayed there. ?Correctly spelled, which didn't seem right. ?I felt you were probably trying to suggest a certain kind of stupidity having to do with politics that I don't feel like getting into. ?Overall, I wasn't sure exactly where you were going, as my comments may well indicate. ?But, hey, it has potential! all best, Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cervantes.james at gmail.com Thu Dec 23 09:07:28 2010 From: cervantes.james at gmail.com (James Cervantes) Date: Thu, 23 Dec 2010 07:07:28 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] New work in the Fall/Winter Salt River Review Message-ID: Just in time to end 2010 and wrap up the Fall/Winter issue, Halvard Johnson's poems, "Schattenwelt" and "Paranoja," have joined the contents of this farewell issue: http://www.poetserv.org/SRR38/johnson.html ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning http://www.fieralingue.it/documenti/mr_bondo.pdf http://www.poetserv.org/jvc/home/index.html http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamescervantes/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fox.skip at gmail.com Thu Dec 23 09:35:07 2010 From: fox.skip at gmail.com (Skip Fox) Date: Thu, 23 Dec 2010 08:35:07 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] New work in the Fall/Winter Salt River Review In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hal has termed his work "uneven." Yet that word implies an unevenness of quality in the writing. One might find his matter various in terms of depth, so called (i.e., he takes his comedy seriously), but his writing is invariably interesting and well written. No unevenness on that score. On Thu, Dec 23, 2010 at 8:07 AM, James Cervantes wrote: > Just in time to end 2010 and wrap up the Fall/Winter issue, Halvard > Johnson's poems, "Schattenwelt" and "Paranoja," have joined the contents of > this farewell issue: > > > http://www.poetserv.org/SRR38/johnson.html > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org > http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning > http://www.fieralingue.it/documenti/mr_bondo.pdf > http://www.poetserv.org/jvc/home/index.html > http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamescervantes/ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fox.skip at gmail.com Thu Dec 23 09:57:43 2010 From: fox.skip at gmail.com (Skip Fox) Date: Thu, 23 Dec 2010 08:57:43 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] feedback on a poem In-Reply-To: <451755.73076.qm@web35507.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <451755.73076.qm@web35507.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Like Bob, yes. But how get artful movement with a bald tire? Isn't that part of stupidity? That it's so stupidly the same. Oh, I'm sure there are vast gradations to a gaze of fine registration. Maybe a perverse Dickinson or Zukofsky could do it if it didn't seem stupidly boring. Maybe that's my blindness. I've taught for over 30 years and lost interest in graduate school with the lists of examples of bad student writing, often humorously mistaking their X for Y or displaying a profound unawareness, and probably unconcern. (I.e., "The Things Kids Say," belongs in Reader's Digest seems to me.) At any rate, Alexander, that's the hurdle it would have to overcome to get me on board. skip fox On Wed, Dec 22, 2010 at 2:15 PM, Alexander Dickow wrote: > Hi NewPo folks, > I thought I'd request some feedback on this one, which I'm a bit unsure > about. One of these is an authentic exam question/response (from a French > ESL student). Thanks in advance! > Amicalement, > Alex > > > *Civilization of the Anglophone World: Exam 1* > > > > Briefly describe what is meant by the north- > > South divide in England. > > *The north-south di* > > *Vide in England refers to the ancient * > > *Edge between the Southern England (the Wales),* > > *And the Northern England (the Scotland).* > > > > How did the industrial revolution play > > a role in the development of the British > > Empire? > > *Great Britain became enriched* > > *Because the industrial revolution discovered petrol.* > > * * > > What were the Maori Wars in New Zealand? > > *Maori were a kind of movement to make the King.* > > *This provoked to conflicts, who had violence.* > > * * > > Briefly explain the Viking invasion. > > *When those Vikings in 1492 invade the Norway, * > > *therefore they will be adopted * > > *the red and yellow stripes flag. * > > > > In your opinion, what ancient edge > > Was playing a role against the King? > > *The industrial empire*. > > > > Why Ireland was separating in the two parts? > > *Whereas the country were torn into single * > > *pieces from the World War One,* > > *the Ulster fight for independence against IRA.* > > *That happen after Act of Union earlier * > > *which many person didn?t want.* > > *It was the civil war.* > > *Also, several volunteers participate.* > > > > Compare the two charts > > Below during answering > > To the questions. > > > > *Chart A shows the many person * > > *which volunteer in civil war * > > *between the Scotland* > > *and Maoris, nowadays * > > *against in the past.* > > * * > > *And chart B shows violence* > > *that most enrich the ancient edges * > > *of my red and yellow stripes flag,* > > *it shows my discovered petrol growing up* > > *during a hundred years long,* > > *it was the civil war.* > > * * > > How has your north-south divide > > become enriched? > > *I was a kind of movement,* > > *I provoked to conflict,* > > *I have violence,* > > *to make the King. * > > > www.alexdickow.net/blog/ > > les mots! ah quel d?sert ? la fin > merveilleux. -- Henri Droguet > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at gmail.com Thu Dec 23 11:01:55 2010 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Thu, 23 Dec 2010 10:01:55 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] marco: feedback In-Reply-To: <278812.43903.qm@web35502.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <278812.43903.qm@web35502.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hi, Alex. Don't take it personally, but things don't generally get workshopped here. Hal "A sudden silence in the middle of a conversation suddenly brings us back to essentials: it reveals how dearly we must pay for the invention of speech." --E. M. Cioran Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home *Mainly Black , **Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ;* *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; * ***Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; * ***G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; * *Transparencies & Projections * On Thu, Dec 23, 2010 at 5:39 AM, Alexander Dickow wrote: > Hello New-Pos, > Is it safe to assume that a request for feedback on a poem that receives no > response on a poetry listserv means "back to the drawing board"? Thanks for > your input, and as Catherine Daly mockingly put it to me recently: MARCO? > Amicalement, > Alex > > www.alexdickow.net/blog/ > > les mots! ah quel d?sert ? la fin > merveilleux. -- Henri Droguet > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at gmail.com Thu Dec 23 11:06:00 2010 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Thu, 23 Dec 2010 10:06:00 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] New work in the Fall/Winter Salt River Review In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: If you have no objection, I'll take that as a compliment. Thanks. Hal "A sudden silence in the middle of a conversation suddenly brings us back to essentials: it reveals how dearly we must pay for the invention of speech." --E. M. Cioran Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home *Mainly Black , **Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ;* *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; * ***Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; * ***G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; * *Transparencies & Projections * On Thu, Dec 23, 2010 at 8:35 AM, Skip Fox wrote: > Hal has termed his work "uneven." Yet that word implies an unevenness of > quality in the writing. One might find his matter various in terms of depth, > so called (i.e., he takes his comedy seriously), but his writing is > invariably interesting and well written. No unevenness on that score. > > > > > On Thu, Dec 23, 2010 at 8:07 AM, James Cervantes < > cervantes.james at gmail.com> wrote: > >> Just in time to end 2010 and wrap up the Fall/Winter issue, Halvard >> Johnson's poems, "Schattenwelt" and "Paranoja," have joined the contents of >> this farewell issue: >> >> >> http://www.poetserv.org/SRR38/johnson.html >> >> >> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >> Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org >> http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning >> http://www.fieralingue.it/documenti/mr_bondo.pdf >> http://www.poetserv.org/jvc/home/index.html >> http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamescervantes/ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at gmail.com Thu Dec 23 11:35:49 2010 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Thu, 23 Dec 2010 10:35:49 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Season's greetings from Hal & Lynda Message-ID: Season's greetings to all. Your card this year is here --> http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=5801774&l=4d88681c9b&id=710653576 Hal "A sudden silence in the middle of a conversation suddenly brings us back to essentials: it reveals how dearly we must pay for the invention of speech." --E. M. Cioran Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home *Mainly Black , **Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ;* *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; * ***Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; * ***G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; * *Transparencies & Projections * -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Thu Dec 23 11:48:51 2010 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Thu, 23 Dec 2010 11:48:51 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] marco: feedback In-Reply-To: References: <278812.43903.qm@web35502.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4D137D73.9070905@nut-n-but.net> On 12/23/2010 11:01 AM, Halvard Johnson wrote: > Hi, Alex. Don't take it personally, but things don't > generally get workshopped here. I thought they did, for a while. I thought that was one of the reasons for the group. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Thu Dec 23 23:20:25 2010 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Fri, 24 Dec 2010 05:20:25 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] for perusing In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: staring poetics: http://staringpoetics.weebly.com/ and do click on the pictures, some are stunning: http://staringpoetics.weebly.com/ -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Thu Dec 23 23:22:23 2010 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Fri, 24 Dec 2010 05:22:23 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: for perusing In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: by Nico Vassilakis [I forgot the author] staring poetics: http://staringpoetics.weebly.com/ and do click on the pictures, some are stunning: http://staringpoetics.weebly.com/ -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bircumplus at yahoo.co.uk Fri Dec 24 04:06:45 2010 From: bircumplus at yahoo.co.uk (David Bircumshaw) Date: Fri, 24 Dec 2010 09:06:45 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Seasonal Greetings from Frederick of Prussia Message-ID: <544816.10408.qm@web28507.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> p { margin-bottom: 0.21cm; } ????????????????? ? ? ? ? Frederick the Great?s Christmas Preparation ????????????????????????????????????????? Advent Offensive Obtain two large rubber boots (preferably same footed for inconvenience to the lower orders. See later.) Nota Bene: not Wellingtons. Procure one quart of rough brandy, if possible from under a Spaniard?s nose at breakfast, a magnum of any Grand Cru champagne, the more expensive the better, and two bottles of alleged cooking sherry from Happy Saturdays off-licence, 95 Al-Fireis Road, Sneinton, Nottingham, near Sherwood Forest, England. Admire the social disjunctions. ???????????????????????????????????????????? Sankt Stockade Avoid agitated Spaniard. Prepare one cup of your finest, favourite, darkest, ground coffee. Allow to drip meditatively. Scan any possible horizons for passing galleons, map-makers or magi. Compose tome on the socio-economic obsolescence of shepherds. Exchange a nod avec Voltaire. ???????????????????????????????????????? ? ? Herbst Enfilade Take one large jar of German mustard (obtainable from any local hardware store or chemists). Paste throughout boots, liberally. Pour in coffee, brandy, sherry and champagne, in that precise order, order is all, ?s exact precise price, dusting in between with hog hair and sawdust. ??????????????????????????????????????????? Winter Garrison Impress Swabian peasant. March impressed peasant around parade-ground square for two months in full battle-gear. O my bombardier. Exact price order. Be proclaimed among remote provinces. Hunch above maps and dialects. Stalk the borders of irreverent detail and rumbunctious gazetteers. Deny the allegations of unnatural stars. Recite the Odes of Anachronism. Upend Swabian and strain out winter warmer. Waes thu hael. (Frederick the Great was apparently found of adding champagne and mustard to his coffee. I have altered the recipe, as well as other facts, somewhat.) David Bircumshaw Website: http://www.staplednapkin.org.uk Blog: http://groggydays.blogspot.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From editor at eratiopostmodernpoetry.com Fri Dec 24 10:06:05 2010 From: editor at eratiopostmodernpoetry.com (=?iso-8859-1?Q?e=B7ratio?=) Date: Fri, 24 Dec 2010 10:06:05 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] =?iso-8859-1?q?sneak_preview_e=B7ratio_14?= Message-ID: <6488deaba53ddfee58cb0ba7bd3470f5.squirrel@webmail4.web.com> e? sneak preview e?ratio 14 http://www.eratiopostmodernpoetry.com/ edited by Gregory Vincent St. Thomasino e? From junction at earthlink.net Fri Dec 24 11:26:45 2010 From: junction at earthlink.net (Mark Weiss) Date: Fri, 24 Dec 2010 11:26:45 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Sad news Message-ID: Janine Pommy Vego died yesterday. Now the parenthesis is filled (1942-2010). Janine lived an amazing life. For years after she came back from South America, where she had married and her young husband had died, she would return, hiking the Andes by herself, not the safest thing for a lone woman to do, and only stopped, with regret, when the rise of the sendero luminoso made it not just dangerous but suicidal. That's the way she lived. A woman and poet of immense, unwavering generosity of spirit. Mark New from Chax Press: Mark Weiss, As Landscape. $16. Order from http://www.chax.org/poets/weiss.htm "What a beautiful set of circumstances! What a lovely concatenation of particulars. Here is the poet alive in every sense of the word, and through every one of his senses. Instead of missing a beat or a part, Weiss? fragments are like Chekhov?s short stories?the more that gets left out, the more they seem to contain One can hear echoes from all the various ancestors...[but] the voice, at its center, its core, is pure Mark Weiss. His use of the fragment is both elegant and bafflingly clear, a pure musical threnody [it] opens a window, not only into a mind, but a person, a personality, this human figure at the emotional center of the poem." M.G. Stephens, in Jacket. http://jacketmagazine.com/40/r-weiss-rb-stephens.shtml -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tad at opus40.org Fri Dec 24 12:38:48 2010 From: tad at opus40.org (Tad Richards) Date: Fri, 24 Dec 2010 12:38:48 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Pleasures chast Message-ID: Spenser, in Prothalamion, wishes the bridal couple And let your bed with pleasures chast abound, That fruitfull issue may to you afford How is this possible? Or did "chaste" mean something different in Spenser's day? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Rsgwynn1 at cs.com Fri Dec 24 12:50:14 2010 From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com (Rsgwynn1 at cs.com) Date: Fri, 24 Dec 2010 12:50:14 EST Subject: [New-Poetry] Pleasures chast Message-ID: In a message dated 12/24/2010 11:38:56 AM Central Standard Time, tad at opus40.org writes: > > Spenser, in Prothalamion, wishes the bridal couple > > And let your bed with pleasures chast abound, > That fruitfull issue may to you afford > > How is this possible? Or did "chaste" mean something different in > Spenser's day? It meant "within the bounds of holy matrimony," as in a "chastity belt." -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Fri Dec 24 18:40:00 2010 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sat, 25 Dec 2010 00:40:00 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Walter Benjamin and writing Message-ID: Post No Bills *The Writer?s Technique in Thirteen Theses* Walter Benjamin 1. Anyone intending to embark on a major work should be lenient with himself and, having completed a stint, deny himself nothing that will not prejudice the next. 2. Talk about what you have written, by all means, but do not read from it while the work is in progress. Every gratification procured in this way will slacken your tempo. If this regime is followed, the growing desire to communicate will become in the end a motor for completion. 3. In your working conditions avoid everyday mediocrity. Semi-relaxation, to a background of insipid sounds, is degrading. On the other hand, accompaniment by an ?tude or a cacophony of voices can become as significant for work as the perceptible silence of the night. If the latter sharpens the inner ear, the former acts as touchstone for a diction ample enough to bury even the most wayward sounds. 4. Avoid haphazard writing materials. A pedantic adherence to certain papers, pens, inks, is beneficial. No luxury, but an abundance of these utensils is indispensable. 5. Let no thought pass incognito, and keep your notebook as strictly as the authorities keep their register of aliens. 6. Keep your pen aloof from inspiration, which it will then attract with magnetic power. The more circumspectly you delay writing down an idea, the more maturely developed it will be on surrendering itself. Speech conquers thought, but writing commands it. 7. Never stop writing because you have run out of ideas. Literary honor requires that one break off only at an appointed moment (a mealtime, a meeting) or at the end of the work. 8. Fill the lacunae of inspiration by tidily copying out what is already written. Intuition will awaken in the process. 9. *Nulla dies sine linea *? but there may well be weeks. 10. Consider no work perfect over which you have not once sat from evening to broad daylight. 11. Do not write the conclusion of a work in your familiar study. You would not find the necessary courage there. 12. Stages of composition: idea ? style ? writing. The value of the fair copy is that in producing it you confine attention to calligraphy. The idea kills inspiration, style fetters the idea, writing pays off style. 13. The work is the death mask of its conception. -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Sat Dec 25 06:59:11 2010 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sat, 25 Dec 2010 12:59:11 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] For those ... and for those ... Message-ID: *THE ABC OF JOBS:* *And Their Connections in an Elementary Interwoven Intertextuality* DOCTOR *? 1* The physician's high and only mission is to restore the sick to health, to cure, as it is termed.1 1 His mission is not, however, to construct so-called systems, by interweaving empty speculations and hypotheses concerning the internal essential nature of the vital processes and the mode in which diseases originate in the interior of the organism, (whereon so many physicians have hitherto ambitiously wasted their talents and their time); nor is it to attempt to give countless explanations regarding the phenomena in diseases and their proximate cause (which must ever remain concealed), wrapped in unintelligible words and an inflated abstract mode of expression, which should sound very learned in order to astonish the ignorant - whilst sick humanity sighs in vain for aid. Of such learned reveries (to which the name of theoretic medicine is given, and for which special professorships are instituted) we have had quite enough, and it is now high time that all who call themselves physicians should at length cease to deceive suffering mankind with mere talk, and begin now, instead, for once to act, that is, really to help and to cure. >From *Organon of Medicine * by Samuel Hahnemann, 5th translated by Dudgeon; 6th Edition translated by Boericke. Online : http://www.homeoint.org/books/hahorgan/organ001.htm#P1 doctor (n.) c.1300, "Church father," from O.Fr. doctour, from M.L. doctor "religious teacher, adviser, scholar," in classical L. "teacher," agent noun from docere "to show, teach, cause to know," originally "make to appear right," causative of decere "be seemly, fitting" (see decent). Meaning "holder of highest degree in university" is first found late 14c.; as is that of "medical professional" (replacing native leech(2)), though this was not common till late 16c. The transitional stage is exemplified in Chaucer?s Doctor of phesike (Latin physica came to be used extensively in M.L. for medicina). Similar usage of the equivalent of doctor is colloquial in most European languages: cf. It. dottore, Fr. docteur, Ger. doktor, Lith. daktaras, though these are typically not the main word in those languages for a medical healer. For similar evolution, cf. Skt. vaidya- ?medical doctor,? lit. ?one versed in science.? Ger. Arzt, Du. arts are from L.L. archiater, from Gk. arkhiatros ?chief healer,? hence ?court physician.? Fr. m?decien is a back formation from m?dicine, replacing O.Fr. miege, from L. medicus. doctor (v.) 1590s, "to confer a degree on," from doctor(n.). Meaning "to treat medically" is from 1712; sense of "alter, disguise, falsify" is from 1774. Related: Doctored; doctoring. >From the Online Etymology Dictionary doctors must heal poets must write poetry writers must write stories teachers must teach carpenters must work wood embroiders must embroider politicians must do politics salesmen must sell models must exhibit fashion whores must sell their bodies pimps must market prostitutes doctors must heal plumbers must fix pipes construction workers must work with bricks priests must preach drivers must drive sailors must sail rapists must rape doctors must heal liars must tell fibs to save themselves fishermen must fish hunters must hunt farmers must grow vegetable breeders must breed animals typists must type freight movers must move freight machine operators must operate machines skiers must ski boxers must box doctors must heal fuckers must fuck guards must guard journalists must report mathematicians must do mathematics translators must translate musicians must play music critics must review flim-makers must make films playwrights must write plays actors must act wankers must wank doctors must heal killers must kill thieves must steal watchmen must watch policemen must prevent & detect crimes god must be lawyers must know the law doctors must heal cotton pickers must pick cotton soldiers must fight cooks must cook waiters must wait on tables cleaners must clean secretaries must do secretarial jobs insurers must insure knitters must knit saints must do miracles walkers must walk electricians must work with electricity physicists must know physics painters must paint wine producers must produce wine iron workers must work with iron miners must mine murderers must murder doctors must heal torturers must torture spies must spy detectives must detect investigators must investigate mothers must make children fathers must father factory workers must work in a factory generals must lead an army angels must protect shepherds must pasture sheep informers must denounce those doctors who do *not* heal doctors must heal beasts must be beasts weight lifters must lift weights book-binders must bind books snowmen must freeze & then melt butchers must kill animals and cut up meat doctors must heal witches must do evil deeds devils must rule those who must suffer in eternity the present poem is dedicated to several of the doctors I have unluckily and recently met following my father?s ischemic stroke that seized him on July 16, 2010. He was first taken to the Ospedale di Santa Chiara in Trento, department of Medicina 1, doctors Susanna Cozzio and Doctor Dimitri Peterlana, Head of the Department Dr. Paolo Dalr? from July 16 to August 4; then to Villa Rosa, Pergine Valsugana (TN) under Dr. Marco Degasperi, Head Dr. Nunzia Mazzini, from August 4 to September 27; and finally back to the previous hospital again: Ospedale di Santa Chiara in Trento, department of Medicina 1, doctors Susanna Cozzio and Doctor Dimitri Peterlana, Head of the Department Dr. Paolo Dalr?. On October 13, 2010 he was sent back home to rot in a bed and to day he has been rotting for exactly two months and twelve days. p.s.: Doctor Susanna Cozzio is the sister-in-law of my sister. Saturday, December 25, 2010 Christmas Day Bolzano, Italy ? Anny Ballardini -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From david.weinstock at gmail.com Sat Dec 25 09:03:29 2010 From: david.weinstock at gmail.com (David Weinstock) Date: Sat, 25 Dec 2010 09:03:29 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Walter Benjamin and writing In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Wow. Thanks for posting these. Better than a New Year's resolution. On Fri, Dec 24, 2010 at 6:40 PM, Anny Ballardini wrote: > Post No Bills > > *The Writer?s Technique in Thirteen Theses* > > Walter Benjamin > > > > 1. Anyone intending to embark on a major work should be lenient with > himself and, having completed a stint, deny himself nothing that will not > prejudice the next. > > 2. Talk about what you have written, by all means, but do not read from it > while the work is in progress. Every gratification procured in this way will > slacken your tempo. If this regime is followed, the growing desire to > communicate will become in the end a motor for completion. > > 3. In your working conditions avoid everyday mediocrity. Semi-relaxation, > to a background of insipid sounds, is degrading. On the other hand, > accompaniment by an ?tude or a cacophony of voices can become as significant > for work as the perceptible silence of the night. If the latter sharpens the > inner ear, the former acts as touchstone for a diction ample enough to bury > even the most wayward sounds. > > 4. Avoid haphazard writing materials. A pedantic adherence to certain > papers, pens, inks, is beneficial. No luxury, but an abundance of these > utensils is indispensable. > > 5. Let no thought pass incognito, and keep your notebook as strictly as the > authorities keep their register of aliens. > > 6. Keep your pen aloof from inspiration, which it will then attract with > magnetic power. The more circumspectly you delay writing down an idea, the > more maturely developed it will be on surrendering itself. Speech conquers > thought, but writing commands it. > > 7. Never stop writing because you have run out of ideas. Literary honor > requires that one break off only at an appointed moment (a mealtime, a > meeting) or at the end of the work. > > 8. Fill the lacunae of inspiration by tidily copying out what is already > written. Intuition will awaken in the process. > > 9. *Nulla dies sine linea *? but there may well be weeks. > > 10. Consider no work perfect over which you have not once sat from evening > to broad daylight. > > 11. Do not write the conclusion of a work in your familiar study. You would > not find the necessary courage there. > > 12. Stages of composition: idea ? style ? writing. The value of the fair > copy is that in producing it you confine attention to calligraphy. The idea > kills inspiration, style fetters the idea, writing pays off style. > > 13. The work is the death mask of its conception. > > > -- > Anny Ballardini > http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ > http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome > http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 > http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html > I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing > star! > Friedrich Nietzsche > > ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique > vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? > Giovenale > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- David Weinstock david.weinstock at gmail.com 802-388-6939 802-989-4314 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Sat Dec 25 09:29:30 2010 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sat, 25 Dec 2010 15:29:30 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Walter Benjamin and writing In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thank you David, yes, Walter Benjamin is still very alive because of his resolutions. On Sat, Dec 25, 2010 at 3:03 PM, David Weinstock wrote: > Wow. Thanks for posting these. Better than a New Year's resolution. > > > > On Fri, Dec 24, 2010 at 6:40 PM, Anny Ballardini < > anny.ballardini at gmail.com> wrote: > >> Post No Bills >> >> *The Writer?s Technique in Thirteen Theses* >> >> Walter Benjamin >> >> >> >> 1. Anyone intending to embark on a major work should be lenient with >> himself and, having completed a stint, deny himself nothing that will not >> prejudice the next. >> >> 2. Talk about what you have written, by all means, but do not read from it >> while the work is in progress. Every gratification procured in this way will >> slacken your tempo. If this regime is followed, the growing desire to >> communicate will become in the end a motor for completion. >> >> 3. In your working conditions avoid everyday mediocrity. Semi-relaxation, >> to a background of insipid sounds, is degrading. On the other hand, >> accompaniment by an ?tude or a cacophony of voices can become as significant >> for work as the perceptible silence of the night. If the latter sharpens the >> inner ear, the former acts as touchstone for a diction ample enough to bury >> even the most wayward sounds. >> >> 4. Avoid haphazard writing materials. A pedantic adherence to certain >> papers, pens, inks, is beneficial. No luxury, but an abundance of these >> utensils is indispensable. >> >> 5. Let no thought pass incognito, and keep your notebook as strictly as >> the authorities keep their register of aliens. >> >> 6. Keep your pen aloof from inspiration, which it will then attract with >> magnetic power. The more circumspectly you delay writing down an idea, the >> more maturely developed it will be on surrendering itself. Speech conquers >> thought, but writing commands it. >> >> 7. Never stop writing because you have run out of ideas. Literary honor >> requires that one break off only at an appointed moment (a mealtime, a >> meeting) or at the end of the work. >> >> 8. Fill the lacunae of inspiration by tidily copying out what is already >> written. Intuition will awaken in the process. >> >> 9. *Nulla dies sine linea *? but there may well be weeks. >> >> 10. Consider no work perfect over which you have not once sat from evening >> to broad daylight. >> >> 11. Do not write the conclusion of a work in your familiar study. You >> would not find the necessary courage there. >> >> 12. Stages of composition: idea ? style ? writing. The value of the fair >> copy is that in producing it you confine attention to calligraphy. The idea >> kills inspiration, style fetters the idea, writing pays off style. >> >> 13. The work is the death mask of its conception. >> >> >> -- >> Anny Ballardini >> http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ >> http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome >> http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 >> http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html >> I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing >> star! >> Friedrich Nietzsche >> >> ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique >> vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? >> Giovenale >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > > > -- > David Weinstock > david.weinstock at gmail.com > 802-388-6939 802-989-4314 > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Sun Dec 26 17:40:11 2010 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Sun, 26 Dec 2010 17:40:11 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] banner year for poetry Message-ID: <8CD7364FD96EB53-1B54-4317D@Webmail-d102.sysops.aol.com> http://www.npr.org/2010/12/23/132235694/word-power-the-years-best-poetry Word Power: The Year's Best Poetry by Meghan O'Rourke It was a banner year for poetry. There were new collections from old masters like Derek Walcott, Seamus Heaney, Jean Valentine and Richard Wilbur, as well as accomplished books by younger poets like Dorothea Lasky and Maureen McLane -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From alexdickow9 at yahoo.com Mon Dec 27 06:07:36 2010 From: alexdickow9 at yahoo.com (Alexander Dickow) Date: Mon, 27 Dec 2010 03:07:36 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] marco: feedback In-Reply-To: <4D137D73.9070905@nut-n-but.net> References: <278812.43903.qm@web35502.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <4D137D73.9070905@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <729210.54619.qm@web35504.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Well, I don't take it personally. Seen enough to confirm the impression that the piece doesn't quite work as?it stands, but I made another of similar material, much more interesting.... Thanks, anyhow, and happy new year. Amicalement, Alex ? www.alexdickow.net/blog/ les mots! ah quel d?sert ? la fin merveilleux. -- Henri Droguet ________________________________ From: Bob Grumman To: NewPoetry List Sent: Thu, December 23, 2010 5:48:51 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] marco: feedback On 12/23/2010 11:01 AM, Halvard Johnson wrote: Hi, Alex. Don't take it personally, but things don't >generally get workshopped here. > I thought they did, for a while.? I thought that was one of the reasons for the group. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Mon Dec 27 10:47:26 2010 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon, 27 Dec 2010 16:47:26 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Jonathan Harris Message-ID: LIST OF KEY CONCEPTS [of Art History] abstract expressionism abstraction academy advertising aesthetic agency allegory alternative analysis appropriation architecture/architect art art-for-art?s-sake art history art world artefact artisan artist artwork author autonomy avant-garde baroque bauhaus beauty/ugliness body byzantine canon capitalism career cinema civilisation classical/class commission communication complexity composition concept conceptual art connoisseurship consumption contemporary content convention craft creativity/creator critic critical theory criticism cubism cultural imperialism cultural policy cultural studies culture curation dada deconstruction design desire development discourse dominant effects studies/effects emergent epoch ethnicity exhibition explanation expressionism fashion feminism figurative film form formalism formation functionalism/function futurism gaze gender genius genre globalisation/global gothic hegemony hermeneutics high art history history painting humanism/human hybridity iconography/iconic ideal identification identity ideology illusionism image impressionism influence installation/installation art institution intention interpretation intertextuality ism kunstwollen landscape language/linguistics look mannerism marxism mass culture/mass masterpiece/old master materials/matter meaning means of production media mediation medieval art/medieval/middle ages metropolitan minimalism modernism/modern movement mural painting museum myth narrative nation naturalism neoclassicism new art history new media nude oppositional organisation originality orientalism painting/painter patriarchy patron performance/performance art period perspective photography picture pop/pop art/popular popular culture portraiture postcolonial postcolonial studies postmodernism poststructuralism practice/practical primitivism producer/product production progress psychoanalysis/psychology public art/public quality race reader realism/real renaissance representation reproduction residual revolutionary rococo romanticism school sculpture/sculptor semiology sex sign/significance/significant/signifying system social/society/sociology/sociosocial history of art social order social realism/socialist realism social relations of production and consumption specialist sponsorship state still-life structuralism/structure style subculture subject matter subjective/subject surface surrealism symbolism taste technology/technique/technical television/tv text theory title tradition value/evaluative view/viewer visual/visible/vision visual culture visual pleasure western zeitgeist -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Mon Dec 27 11:35:23 2010 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon, 27 Dec 2010 17:35:23 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] marco: feedback In-Reply-To: <729210.54619.qm@web35504.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <278812.43903.qm@web35502.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <4D137D73.9070905@nut-n-but.net> <729210.54619.qm@web35504.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I am with Hal. You do not have to take it personally. Nor rework your poem unless you think you have to. Almost nobody sends any feedback because of many things, time first, and a certain wish to keep the integrity of your work - without having to dissect/vivisect it; a form of respect. Do you really need me to tell you that your poem is good? I think I have shown that I value your work several times already. As much as many on this list. Or on other lists, I guess. On Mon, Dec 27, 2010 at 12:07 PM, Alexander Dickow wrote: > Well, I don't take it personally. Seen enough to confirm the impression > that the piece doesn't quite work as it stands, but I made another of > similar material, much more interesting.... > Thanks, anyhow, and happy new year. > Amicalement, > Alex > > www.alexdickow.net/blog/ > > les mots! ah quel d?sert ? la fin > merveilleux. -- Henri Droguet > > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Bob Grumman > *To:* NewPoetry List > *Sent:* Thu, December 23, 2010 5:48:51 PM > > *Subject:* Re: [New-Poetry] marco: feedback > > On 12/23/2010 11:01 AM, Halvard Johnson wrote: > > Hi, Alex. Don't take it personally, but things don't > generally get workshopped here. > > > I thought they did, for a while. I thought that was one of the reasons for > the group. > > --Bob > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Mon Dec 27 16:02:10 2010 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Mon, 27 Dec 2010 16:02:10 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] marco: feedback In-Reply-To: References: <278812.43903.qm@web35502.mail.mud.yahoo.com><4D137D73. 9070905@nut-n-but.net><729210.54619.qm@web35504.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4D18FED2.60502@nut-n-but.net> On 12/27/2010 11:35 AM, Anny Ballardini wrote: > I am with Hal. You do not have to take it personally. Nor rework your > poem unless you think you have to. I find, though, that I tend to see possible flaws in my work that I don't really want to fix. It's then that I'm most helped by someone else's mentioning the same flaw--and forcing me to give up the hope I can fool everybody. I can't think of a time when I've seen something that I thought might be wrong with a poem of mine that I got away with after others saw it. I find, too, that sometimes feedback I consider misguided nevertheless helps me re-think a poem and in my opinion improve it (sometimes by making it go even more where my critic thinks it shouldn't!) In short, I like feedback. --Bob From jforjames at aol.com Mon Dec 27 17:38:48 2010 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Mon, 27 Dec 2010 17:38:48 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] marco: feedback In-Reply-To: <8CD742DBA8BF118-15B4-41160@Webmail-d103.sysops.aol.com> References: <278812.43903.qm@web35502.mail.mud.yahoo.com><4D137D73.9070905@nut-n-but.net><729210.54619.qm@web35504.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <8CD742DBA8BF118-15B4-41160@Webmail-d103.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <8CD742DF636E189-15B4-411B8@Webmail-d103.sysops.aol.com> I wish I had more time to comment on poems posted here. Both the poems of list members and the poems of others that occasionally appear. We have only the soft guideline: 'one poem (of your own) per month'. And that can be broken if your poem fits into a particular thread. I appreciate hearing about poems published elsewhere as well. The nice thing about those notices (with links) is that it often leads me to literary e-nviron heretofore unknown to me. Hope everyone has a wonderful 2011! Jim Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: Anny Ballardini To: NewPoetry List Sent: Mon, Dec 27, 2010 11:35 am Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] marco: feedback I am with Hal. You do not have to take it personally. Nor rework your poem unless you think you have to. Almost nobody sends any feedback because of many things, time first, and a certain wish to keep the integrity of your work - without having to dissect/vivisect it; a form of respect. Do you really need me to tell you that your poem is good? I think I have shown that I value your work several times already. As much as many on this list. Or on other lists, I guess. On Mon, Dec 27, 2010 at 12:07 PM, Alexander Dickow wrote: Well, I don't take it personally. Seen enough to confirm the impression that the piece doesn't quite work as it stands, but I made another of similar material, much more interesting.... Thanks, anyhow, and happy new year. Amicalement, Alex www.alexdickow.net/blog/ les mots! ah quel d?sert ? la fin merveilleux. -- Henri Droguet From: Bob Grumman To: NewPoetry List Sent: Thu, December 23, 2010 5:48:51 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] marco: feedback On 12/23/2010 11:01 AM, Halvard Johnson wrote: Hi, Alex. Don't take it personally, but things don't generally get workshopped here. I thought they did, for a while. I thought that was one of the reasons for the group. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Mon Dec 27 20:42:53 2010 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Mon, 27 Dec 2010 20:42:53 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] out with the old, in with the new Message-ID: <8CD7447ADED0EBA-15B4-43266@Webmail-d103.sysops.aol.com> http://online.wsj.com/article/AP1be1d65e2d6d4d7cbe79f33e163e40d6.html NEW YORK ? Not long ago, a subway rider who'd had a particularly tough day at work found herself staring up at the ads inside her subway car, where one of the placards featured a poignant literary quote. It was from a 15th-century Turkish poet, Mihri Khatun, and it "turned my day around," the rider later said in an e-mail. "Within me, the heart has taken fire like a candle/ My body, whirling, is a lighthouse illuminated by your image," the poet wrote. Commuters like her have been able to catch relief during grueling rides by reading poetry and inspired literature among all the ads. But the train has screeched to a stop. Transit officials have replaced the words of Franz Kafka, Galileo and other great thinkers ? a program called Train of Thought ? with service announcements about the Metropolitan Transportation Authority's improved new technology, equipment and infrastructure. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From alexdickow9 at yahoo.com Tue Dec 28 09:29:55 2010 From: alexdickow9 at yahoo.com (Alexander Dickow) Date: Tue, 28 Dec 2010 06:29:55 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] marco: feedback In-Reply-To: References: <278812.43903.qm@web35502.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <4D137D73.9070905@nut-n-but.net> <729210.54619.qm@web35504.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <897873.68819.qm@web35502.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hi Anny, Of course:?I don't think asking for feedback is about soliciting compliments, but about seeing what works and doesn't work about a poem, which can be very helpful. I basically?knew there was something?that didn't do what I wanted about this one, but now I have a better idea what that is, which is rather nice! Happy new year once again, Amicalement, Alex ? www.alexdickow.net/blog/ les mots! ah quel d?sert ? la fin merveilleux. -- Henri Droguet ________________________________ From: Anny Ballardini To: NewPoetry List Sent: Mon, December 27, 2010 5:35:23 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] marco: feedback I am with Hal. You do not have to take it personally. Nor rework your poem unless you think you have to. Almost nobody sends any feedback because of many things, time first, and a certain wish to keep the integrity of your work - without having to dissect/vivisect it; a form of respect. Do you really need me to tell you that your poem is good? I think I have shown that I value your work several times already. As much as many on this list. Or on other lists, I guess. On Mon, Dec 27, 2010 at 12:07 PM, Alexander Dickow wrote: Well, I don't take it personally. Seen enough to confirm the impression that the piece doesn't quite work as?it stands, but I made another of similar material, much more interesting.... >Thanks, anyhow, and happy new year. >Amicalement, >Alex >? >www.alexdickow.net/blog/ > >les mots! ah quel d?sert ? la fin >merveilleux. -- Henri Droguet > > > > > ________________________________ >From: Bob Grumman >To: NewPoetry List >Sent: Thu, December 23, 2010 5:48:51 PM > >Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] marco: feedback > > >On 12/23/2010 11:01 AM, Halvard Johnson wrote: >Hi, Alex. Don't take it personally, but things don't >>generally get workshopped here. >> I thought they did, for a while.? I thought that was one of the reasons for the group. --Bob >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Tue Dec 28 10:59:24 2010 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Tue, 28 Dec 2010 16:59:24 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Platte Valley Review and Christina Pacosz Message-ID: This latest issue of Platte Valley Review : http://www.plattevalleyreview.org/Webpages/PVR2009.html and Christina Pacosz with WHAT DID THE CRANES EAT BEFORE THE PRAIRIE WAS PLOWED? http://www.plattevalleyreview.org/Webpages/Author%20Pages/L-Z/Pacosz.html -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Tue Dec 28 15:58:14 2010 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Tue, 28 Dec 2010 15:58:14 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] My Book on the Taxonomy of Poetry In-Reply-To: <8CD7447ADED0EBA-15B4-43266@Webmail-d103.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CD7447ADED0EBA-15B4-43266@Webmail-d103.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <4D1A4F66.4090607@nut-n-but.net> 20 pages. Cost of production aside from labor: $1.50. Cost of postage: $.78 (in U.S.). Price to you: zero if you e.mail me that you want a copy and give me your mailing address. Offer good until 1 April 2011 or I run out of books, and there's no chance of that as there will be over ten copies in print. Interesting details about the book: The highest category (the "universe") in my taxonomy is Existence. "Poetry" is several steps down. I define poetry with extreme precision, but the definition is not very radical--basically that poetry is words and lineation, or some form thereof. Its main defect is that it ends before classifying the kinds of poetry at the most specialized taxonomical levels--so cowboy poetry is not mentioned, nor linear-algebraic poetry. The title of the book is /A Preliminary Taxonomy of Poetry/. I hope one day to do a much more thorough one, but I'll need a lot more help than I got when trying to list all the schools of contemporary American poetry. Question: has anyone in this country ever tried to create a taxonomy of poetry? My impression is that no one has, which reflects badly on our literary critics much more than it reflects favorably on me. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From c.a.b.daly at gmail.com Tue Dec 28 16:11:45 2010 From: c.a.b.daly at gmail.com (Catherine Daly) Date: Tue, 28 Dec 2010 13:11:45 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] My Book on the Taxonomy of Poetry In-Reply-To: <4D1A4F66.4090607@nut-n-but.net> References: <8CD7447ADED0EBA-15B4-43266@Webmail-d103.sysops.aol.com> <4D1A4F66.4090607@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: I'd love a .pdf of it... All best, Catherine -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chris at chrislott.org Tue Dec 28 17:46:17 2010 From: chris at chrislott.org (Chris Lott) Date: Tue, 28 Dec 2010 13:46:17 -0900 Subject: [New-Poetry] My Book on the Taxonomy of Poetry In-Reply-To: <4D1A4F66.4090607@nut-n-but.net> References: <8CD7447ADED0EBA-15B4-43266@Webmail-d103.sysops.aol.com> <4D1A4F66.4090607@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: Bring it on! Do you have it electronically or in PDF? Then cost to you is 0 as well. Otherwise, my mailing address: PO Box 82826, Fairbanks, AK, 99708-2826 c On Tue, Dec 28, 2010 at 11:58 AM, Bob Grumman wrote: > 20 pages.? Cost of production aside from labor: $1.50.? Cost of postage: > $.78 (in U.S.).? Price to you: zero if you e.mail me that you want a copy > and give me your mailing address.? Offer good until 1 April 2011 or I run > out of books, and there's no chance of that as there will be over ten copies > in print. > > Interesting details about the book:? The highest category (the "universe") > in my taxonomy is Existence.? "Poetry" is several steps down.? I define > poetry with extreme precision, but the definition is not very > radical--basically that poetry is words and lineation, or some form > thereof.? Its main defect is that it ends before classifying the kinds of > poetry at the most specialized taxonomical levels--so cowboy poetry is not > mentioned, nor linear-algebraic poetry.? The title of the book is A > Preliminary Taxonomy of Poetry.? I hope one day to do a much more thorough > one, but I'll need a lot more help than I got when trying to list all the > schools of contemporary American poetry. > > Question: has anyone in this country ever tried to create a taxonomy of > poetry?? My impression is that no one has, which reflects badly on our > literary critics much more than it reflects favorably on me. > > --Bob > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Tue Dec 28 18:28:10 2010 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Tue, 28 Dec 2010 18:28:10 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] My Book on the Taxonomy of Poetry In-Reply-To: References: <8CD7447ADED0EBA-15B4-43266@Webmail-d103.sysops.aol.com><4D1A4F66.4090607@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <4D1A728A.3010208@nut-n-but.net> On 12/28/2010 4:11 PM, Catherine Daly wrote: > I'd love a .pdf of it... > > All best, > Catherine Sorry, Catherine, no pdf--at least not yet. --Bob From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Tue Dec 28 18:37:56 2010 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Tue, 28 Dec 2010 18:37:56 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] My Book on the Taxonomy of Poetry In-Reply-To: References: <8CD7447ADED0EBA-15B4-43266@Webmail-d103.sysops.aol.com><4D1A4F66.4090607@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <4D1A74D4.4060604@nut-n-but.net> On 12/28/2010 5:46 PM, Chris Lott wrote: > Bring it on! Do you have it electronically or in PDF? Then cost to you > is 0 as well. > > Otherwise, my mailing address: PO Box 82826, Fairbanks, AK, 99708-2826 > > c Thanks for continuing interest, Chris. As for PDF, sorry, not yet. --Bob From c.a.b.daly at gmail.com Tue Dec 28 18:33:27 2010 From: c.a.b.daly at gmail.com (Catherine Daly) Date: Tue, 28 Dec 2010 15:33:27 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] My Book on the Taxonomy of Poetry In-Reply-To: <4D1A728A.3010208@nut-n-but.net> References: <8CD7447ADED0EBA-15B4-43266@Webmail-d103.sysops.aol.com> <4D1A4F66.4090607@nut-n-but.net> <4D1A728A.3010208@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: PDF Maker is free, or I have the professional version... if you want to backchannel me the file I can convert it for you... -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Tue Dec 28 21:05:17 2010 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Tue, 28 Dec 2010 21:05:17 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] most important Jewish poetry books of 2010 Message-ID: <8CD7513F8F00311-15A4-60811@Webmail-d113.sysops.aol.com> http://blogs.forward.com/the-arty-semite/134268/ Forward Fives: 2010 in Poetry By Forward Staff In this, the second annual Forward Fives selection, we celebrate the year?s cultural output with a series of deliberately eclectic choices in film, music, theater, exhibitions and books. Here we present five of the most important Jewish poetry books of 2010... Read more: http://blogs.forward.com/the-arty-semite/134268/#ixzz19SimaQVm -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Tue Dec 28 21:08:36 2010 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Tue, 28 Dec 2010 21:08:36 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] solstice poems Message-ID: <8CD7514700F243C-15A4-608C3@Webmail-d113.sysops.aol.com> http://www.timescolonist.com/news/Melanie+Siebert+Poetry+winter+night/4032180/story.html The Times Colonist asked six poets from Vancouver Island and the southern Gulf Islands to create poems for the darkest days of the year. Today we present the second, Melanie Siebert's Winter Solstice. The remaining four will appear on the front page of the Life section between Wednesday and Jan. 2. Read more: http://www.timescolonist.com/news/Melanie+Siebert+Poetry+winter+night/4032180/story.html#ixzz19SjmVbML -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From obodooha at gmail.com Wed Dec 29 13:40:34 2010 From: obodooha at gmail.com (Obododimma Oha) Date: Wed, 29 Dec 2010 10:40:34 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] A Hat Called Jonathan Message-ID: "From cultural gifts received from the colonial officer, African communities can also create their symbols of cultural identity.... Isn?t it better for the European idea to peep through the props of African ?traditional? experience?" Read the full text of 'A Hat Called "Jonathan"' at: http://234next.com/csp/cms/sites/Next/Opinion/5658680-184/a_hat_called_jonathan__.csp -- *Obododimma Oha* http://udude.wordpress.com/ (*Associate Professor of Cultural Semiotics & Stylistics*) Dept. of English University of Ibadan Nigeria & *Fellow*, Centre for Peace & Conflict Studies University of Ibadan Phone: +234 803 333 1330; +234 805 350 6604; +234 808 264 8060. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Wed Dec 29 14:25:39 2010 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Wed, 29 Dec 2010 14:25:39 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] VIzPo Alert: art with words Message-ID: <8CD75A54FDE840D-F38-545C5@webmail-m028.sysops.aol.com> Matthew Cusick, Words & Image: http://www.mattcusick.com/pages.php?content=nestGall.php&navGallID=10001 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Wed Dec 29 15:48:37 2010 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Wed, 29 Dec 2010 15:48:37 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] bragging rights, SF v. NYC Message-ID: <8CD75B0E6F399F1-F10-5E07D@webmail-d024.sysops.aol.com> http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/blogs/drader/detail?entry_id=79516 Is San Francisco to Poetry What New York is to Fiction? Last month, I was invited to serve as the Guest Blogger for the blog of the Best American Poetry. In one of my first posts, I made a controversial claim---San Francisco has emerged as the best poetry city in the country. Here's why... = -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From junction at earthlink.net Wed Dec 29 17:21:59 2010 From: junction at earthlink.net (Mark Weiss) Date: Wed, 29 Dec 2010 17:21:59 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] bragging rights, SF v. NYC In-Reply-To: <8CD75B0E6F399F1-F10-5E07D@webmail-d024.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CD75B0E6F399F1-F10-5E07D@webmail-d024.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: This is incredibly stupid. It epitomizes much of what's worst about the current poetry scene--for a start, that it reifies a "poetry scene." It seems to be increasingly hard to remember that poetry is neither a social activity like church picnics or block parties nor a career like teaching or celebrity. Nor a competition. Mark At 03:48 PM 12/29/2010, you wrote: >http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/blogs/drader/detail?entry_id=79516 >Is San Francisco to Poetry What New York is to Fiction? > >Last month, I was invited to serve as the Guest >Blogger for the blog of the Best American >Poetry. In one of my first posts, I made a >controversial claim---San Francisco has emerged >as the best poetry city in the country. > >Here's why... >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry New from Chax Press: Mark Weiss, As Landscape. $16. Order from http://www.chax.org/poets/weiss.htm "What a beautiful set of circumstances! What a lovely concatenation of particulars. Here is the poet alive in every sense of the word, and through every one of his senses. Instead of missing a beat or a part, Weiss? fragments are like Chekhov?s short stories?the more that gets left out, the more they seem to contain One can hear echoes from all the various ancestors...[but] the voice, at its center, its core, is pure Mark Weiss. His use of the fragment is both elegant and bafflingly clear, a pure musical threnody [it] opens a window, not only into a mind, but a person, a personality, this human figure at the emotional center of the poem." M.G. Stephens, in Jacket. http://jacketmagazine.com/40/r-weiss-rb-stephens.shtml -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Wed Dec 29 17:43:50 2010 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Wed, 29 Dec 2010 17:43:50 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] bragging rights, SF v. NYC In-Reply-To: <8CD75B0E6F399F1-F10-5E07D@webmail-d024.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CD75B0E6F399F1-F10-5E07D@webmail-d024.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <4D1BB9A6.9040306@nut-n-but.net> On 12/29/2010 3:48 PM, jforjames at aol.com wrote: > http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/blogs/drader/detail?entry_id=79516 > Is San Francisco to Poetry What New York is to Fiction? Yes, San Francisco is as provincially out of it as far as poetry is concerned as New York is provincially out of it as far as fiction is concerned! --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From oedipa at gmail.com Wed Dec 29 20:41:58 2010 From: oedipa at gmail.com (karen) Date: Wed, 29 Dec 2010 17:41:58 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] bragging rights, SF v. NYC In-Reply-To: <4D1BB9A6.9040306@nut-n-but.net> References: <8CD75B0E6F399F1-F10-5E07D@webmail-d024.sysops.aol.com> <4D1BB9A6.9040306@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: I agree with Bob on this one...being from SF and having lived in NYC. And now residing in Seattle..... On Wed, Dec 29, 2010 at 2:43 PM, Bob Grumman wrote: > On 12/29/2010 3:48 PM, jforjames at aol.com wrote: > > http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/blogs/drader/detail?entry_id=79516 > Is San Francisco to Poetry What New York is to Fiction? > > Yes, San Francisco is as provincially out of it as far as poetry is > concerned as New York is provincially out of it as far as fiction is > concerned! > > --Bob > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- k -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Wed Dec 29 21:04:04 2010 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Wed, 29 Dec 2010 21:04:04 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] PoemTalk 39: Etheridge Knight responds to Gwendolyn Brooks In-Reply-To: <3FD83A62-F777-49DE-A2E4-D64EA92BE3E1@writing.upenn.edu> References: <3FD83A62-F777-49DE-A2E4-D64EA92BE3E1@writing.upenn.edu> Message-ID: <8CD75DCF84EAEB0-1944-46CC@web-mmc-d10.sysops.aol.com> -----Original Message----- From: Al Filreis To: Al Filreis Sent: Wed, Dec 29, 2010 5:15 pm Subject: PoemTalk 39: Etheridge Knight responds to Gwendolyn Brooks We are pleased to release PoemTalk episode 39 - a discussion of Etheridge Knight's poem-rejoinder ("The Sun Came") to Gwendolyn Brooks ("Truth"), a conversation hosted by Al Filreis with Tracie Morris, Josephine Park, and Herman Beavers: http://www.poemtalk.org http://www.poetryfoundation.org/ Each PoemTalk episode is less than 30 minutes. They can be downloaded from the PoemTalk site or from the Poetry Foundation site, or from iTunes (in the music store, type "PoemTalk" in the search box). Next on PoemTalk: in episode #40, Jena Osman, Julia Bloch and Rob Fitterman discuss Joan Retallack's "Not a Cage." Al Filreis http://www.writing.upenn.edu/~afilreis = -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Thu Dec 30 12:41:26 2010 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Thu, 30 Dec 2010 12:41:26 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] bragging rights, SF v. NYC In-Reply-To: References: <8CD75B0E6F399F1-F10-5E07D@webmail-d024.sysops.aol.com><4D1BB9A6.9040306@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <8CD765FEAA11F51-624-57198@webmail-d072.sysops.aol.com> More reasons why SF is great(er)... http://www.ucpress.edu/book.php?isbn=9780520262508 What makes a place? Infinite City, Rebecca Solnit?s brilliant reinvention of the traditional atlas, searches out the answer by examining the many layers of meaning in one place, the San Francisco Bay Area. Aided by artists, writers, cartographers, and twenty-two gorgeous color maps, each of which illuminates the city and its surroundings as experienced by different inhabitants, Solnit takes us on a tour that will forever change the way we think about place. She explores the area thematically?connecting, for example, Eadweard Muybridge?s foundation of motion-picture technology with Alfred Hitchcock?s filming of Vertigo. Across an urban grid of just seven by seven miles, she finds seemingly unlimited landmarks and treasures?butterfly habitats, queer sites, murders, World War II shipyards, blues clubs, Zen Buddhist centers. She roams the political terrain, both progressive and conservative, and details the cultural geographies of the Mission District, the culture wars of the Fillmore, the South of Market world being devoured by redevelopment, and much, much more. Breathtakingly original, this atlas of the imagination invites us to search out the layers of San Francisco that carry meaning for us?or to discover our own infinite city, be it Cleveland, Toulouse, or Shanghai. -----Original Message----- From: karen To: NewPoetry List Sent: Wed, Dec 29, 2010 8:41 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] bragging rights, SF v. NYC I agree with Bob on this one...being from SF and having lived in NYC. And now residing in Seattle..... On Wed, Dec 29, 2010 at 2:43 PM, Bob Grumman wrote: On 12/29/2010 3:48 PM, jforjames at aol.com wrote: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/blogs/drader/detail?entry_id=79516 Is San Francisco to Poetry What New York is to Fiction? Yes, San Francisco is as provincially out of it as far as poetry is concerned as New York is provincially out of it as far as fiction is concerned! --Bob _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -- k _______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Thu Dec 30 12:49:14 2010 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Thu, 30 Dec 2010 12:49:14 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] ubi sunt 2010 Message-ID: <8CD766101EFA03D-624-573D9@webmail-d072.sysops.aol.com> Some poets who died in 2010... Ai, 62, American poet Rane Arroyo, 55, American poet Susan Bright, American poet, publisher, activist Judson Crews, 92, American poet Lucille Clifton, 73, American poet (Blessing the Boats), Poet Laureate of Maryland Robert Dana, 80, American poet, Iowa poet laureate Kent Foreman, 75, American poet Michael Gizzi, 61, American poet and publisher George Hitchcock, 96, American poet and publisher Allen Hoey, 57, American poet and publisher Tuli Kupferberg, 86, American poet, cartoonist and musician (The Fugs) Morton Marcus, 73, American poet and prose poet Stephen Morse, 65, American poet Steve Orlen, 68, American poet Peter Orlovsky, 76, American poet Alan Planz, 73, American Poet Omar Pound, 83, poet and translator, son of Ezra Pound Jack Powers, American poet Carolyn Rodgers, 69, American poet Dorothy Rudy, 86, American poet Leslie Scalapino, 65, American poet, publisher and playwright Peter Seaton, 67, American poet Alan Sullivan, 61, American poet -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Thu Dec 30 14:02:15 2010 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Thu, 30 Dec 2010 14:02:15 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] bragging rights, SF v. NYC In-Reply-To: References: <8CD75B0E6F399F1-F10-5E07D@webmail-d024.sysops.aol.com><4D1BB9A6.9040306@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <4D1CD737.5000401@nut-n-but.net> On 12/29/2010 8:41 PM, karen wrote: > I agree with Bob on this one...being from SF and having lived in NYC. > And now residing in Seattle..... Yeeks, apparently you haven't been warned about agreeing with me, Karen. I hope you won't get into too much trouble! As I've said before, Seattle has always seemed to me the best city for poetry in the States. But I agree with Mark that there really aren't any poetry centers in this country. It'd be really nice if there were something like the Princeton Institute for Advanced Study (if I have the name right) for poets and poetry critics, though--with a duplicate of Poets' House and a building housing Ruth and Marvin Sackner's collection of visual and related poetry, and whatever's in the collections of that kind of material in the libraries at Ohio State University and SUNY, Buffalo, the Sackners don't have. And buildings housing similar collections of other kinds of poetry. --Bob From jforjames at aol.com Thu Dec 30 13:58:43 2010 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Thu, 30 Dec 2010 13:58:43 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fine Press Book Assn. Message-ID: <8CD766AB711CA29-1390-69B84@webmail-d026.sysops.aol.com> Nothing virtual about this literary world... http://fpba.com/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Thu Dec 30 14:23:22 2010 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Thu, 30 Dec 2010 14:23:22 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] bragging rights, SF v. NYC In-Reply-To: <4D1CD737.5000401@nut-n-but.net> References: <8CD75B0E6F399F1-F10-5E07D@webmail-d024.sysops.aol.com><4D1BB9A6.9040306@nut-n-but.net> <4D1CD737.5000401@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <8CD766E28234C6C-1390-69FE7@webmail-d026.sysops.aol.com> Bob, where is the Sackner collection? Or is that just a private collection you know of? To your ideal library cum art archive, you could add the Danowki Poetry Library at Emory U... http://marbl.library.emory.edu/collection-overview/raymond-danowski-poetry-library My hero... http://marbl.library.emory.edu/about/marbl-stories/raymond-danowski Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: Bob Grumman To: NewPoetry List Sent: Thu, Dec 30, 2010 2:02 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] bragging rights, SF v. NYC On 12/29/2010 8:41 PM, karen wrote: > I agree with Bob on this one...being from SF and having lived in NYC. > And now residing in Seattle..... Yeeks, apparently you haven't been warned about agreeing with me, Karen. I hope you won't get into too much trouble! As I've said before, Seattle has always seemed to me the best city for poetry in the States. But I agree with Mark that there really aren't any poetry centers in this country. It'd be really nice if there were something like the Princeton Institute for Advanced Study (if I have the name right) for poets and poetry critics, though--with a duplicate of Poets' House and a building housing Ruth and Marvin Sackner's collection of visual and related poetry, and whatever's in the collections of that kind of material in the libraries at Ohio State University and SUNY, Buffalo, the Sackners don't have. And buildings housing similar collections of other kinds of poetry. --Bob _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Thu Dec 30 14:47:17 2010 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Thu, 30 Dec 2010 14:47:17 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: Wait, What? It's SPD's Kiss Off 2010 Sale! In-Reply-To: <1104164875024.1103707940910.3941.12.53142501@scheduler> References: <1104164875024.1103707940910.3941.12.53142501@scheduler> Message-ID: <8CD76717CF792F2-1390-6A49A@webmail-d026.sysops.aol.com> What you didn't get the book for Christmas?...Treat yourself. -----Original Message----- From: Clay @ Small Press Distribution To: jforjames at aol.com Sent: Thu, Dec 30, 2010 2:29 pm Subject: Wait, What? It's SPD's Kiss Off 2010 Sale! Having trouble viewing this email? Click here FACEBOOK | TWITTER | BLOG | POETRY BEST-SELLERS | FICTION BEST-SELLERS | MAGAZINES Try Electronic Ordering! SPD is on Pubnet, SAN 1066617. Questions? Contact Clay at clay at spdbooks.org orders at spdbooks.org ? www.spdbooks.org ? 800.869.7553 ? fax: 510.524.0852 Yes. Click here to visit our web page for details. It's SPD's Kiss Off 2010 Sale! Type in the promotional code KISSOFF and receive 30% off SPD's 50 best-selling titles of 2010. Most of these books are good. Maybe all of them. They're certainly good looking: Plants and Landscapes for Summer-Dry Climates of the San Francisco Bay Region by East Bay Municipal Utility District Staff (East Bay Municipal Utility District) Up Jump the Boogie by John Murillo (Cypher Books) The Rose Metal Press Field Guide to Writing Flash Fiction: Tips from Editors, Teachers, and Writers in the Field edited by Tara L. Masih (Rose Metal Press) Khirbet Khizeh by S. Yizhar (Ibis Editions) Ten Walks/Two Talks by Jon Cotner and Andy Fitch (Ugly Duckling Presse) Devotional Cinema by Nathaniel Dorsky (Tuumba Press) The Place That Inhabits Us: Poems from the San Francisco Bay Watershed edited by Sixteen Rivers Press (Sixteen Rivers Press) Stories in the Worst Way by Gary Lutz (Calamari Press) Humanimal: A Project for Future Children by Bhanu Kapil (Kelsey Street Press) Sitt Marie Rose by Etel Adnan (The Post-Apollo Press) Clamor by Elyse Fenton (Cleveland State University Poetry Center) Face by Sherman Alexie (Hanging Loose Press) The Business of Fancydancing by Sherman Alexie (Hanging Loose Press) The Irrationalist by Suzanne Buffam (Canarium Books) The Vertical Interrogation of Strangers by Bhanu Kapil (Kelsey Street Press) Pink Elephant by Rachel McKibbens (Cypher Books) Scary, No Scary by Zachary Schomburg (Black Ocean) ZaatarDiva by Suheir Hammad (Cypher Books) Lunar Braceros 2125-2148 by Rosaura S?nchez and Beatrice Pita (Calaca Press) A Mouth in California by Graham Foust (Flood Editions) The Battlefield Where the Moon Says I Love You by Frank Stanford (Lost Roads Publishers) Breaking Poems by Suheir Hammad (Cypher Books) you are a little bit happier than i am by Tao Lin (Action Books) I Looked Alive by Gary Lutz (The Brooklyn Rail/Black Square Editions) 100 Notes on Violence by Julie Carr (Ahsahta Press) Color Plates by Adam Golaski (Rose Metal Press) The Activist by Renee Gladman (Krupskaya) Firework by Eugene Marten (Tyrant Books) Under the Dome: Walks with Paul Celan by Jean Daive (Burning Deck) Breathing the Monster Alive by Eric Gansworth (Bright Hill Press) Nets by Jen Bervin (Ugly Duckling Presse) Unclean Jobs for Women and Girls by Alissa Nutting (Starcherone Books) The Book of Frank by CAConrad (Wave Books) Notes on Conceptualisms by Vanessa Place and Robert Fitterman (Ugly Duckling Presse) Killing Kanoko: Selected Poems of Hiromi It? by Hiromi It? (Action Books) Reason and Other Women by Alice Notley (Chax Press) Radi Os by Ronald Johnson (Flood Editions) Where We Once Belonged by Sia Figiel (Kaya Press) >From Unincorporated Territory by Craig Santos Perez (Tinfish Press) Event Factory by Renee Gladman (Dorothy, a publishing project) Rust or Go Missing by Lily Brown (Cleveland State University Poetry Center) The Kenning Anthology of Poets Theater: 1945-1985 edited by Kevin Killian and David Brazil (Kenning Editions) Rumored Islands by Robert Farnsworth (Harbor Mountain Press) Baghdad, Yesterday: The Making of an Arab Jew by Sasson Somekh (Ibis Editions) Going to Seed: Dispatches from the Garden by Charles Goodrich (Silverfish Review Press) Resonance by Richard Jackson (Ashland Poetry Press) At the End of the Day: Selected Poems and an Introductory Essay by Phillip Lopate (Marsh Hawk Press) Remember to Wave by Kaia Sand (Tinfish Press) The Difficult Farm by Heather Christle (Octopus Books) Texture Notes by Sawako Nakayasu (Letter Machine Editions) HAPPY NEW YEAR! YOUR PATRONAGE GOES A LONG WAY. WE THANK YOU. Forward email This email was sent to jforjames at aol.com by clay at spdbooks.org. Update Profile/Email Address | Instant removal with SafeUnsubscribe? | Privacy Policy. Email Marketing by Small Press Distribution | 1341 Seventh Street | Berkeley | CA | 94710 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jschickl at hotmail.com Thu Dec 30 14:51:34 2010 From: jschickl at hotmail.com (Jared Schickling) Date: Thu, 30 Dec 2010 12:51:34 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] bragging rights, SF v. NYC In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Everything mentioned in support of the claim of ?new poetry center? hinges on institutional recognitions and honors?all of which appears very shallow when trying to account for the VARIOUS states of poetic affairs. When speaking of the space cities like NY and SF occupy these days, it seems more relevant to speak of economic influence over and above cultural influence?although, perhaps as much is proper, where the market is the new object of prayers and devotion?political economies masquerading as culture, a dreaming unable to explain, for example, why all those folks above, below, and to the right of California prefer the war party this year?the piece certainly establishes what it means by the ?accomplishments? of San Francisco writers, but it never establishes what it means by ?innovation,? saying jack about the nature and value of the writing itself. I also love how the meaning of ?love-in? gets transfigured here!!! What?s ?hot??that is, selling (in more ways than one)?is apparently what MATTERS, as tends to happen with such approaches to the art. Disclaimer: While moving to SF I remember breaking down in Crescent City, near the Oregon border and coastal redwoods?the mechanic wondered why anyone would move THERE. In terms of LIFE, I found the Tenderloin most interesting and authentic. We left within the year. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tad at opus40.org Thu Dec 30 15:17:47 2010 From: tad at opus40.org (Tad Richards) Date: Thu, 30 Dec 2010 15:17:47 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] ubi sunt 2010 In-Reply-To: <8CD766101EFA03D-624-573D9@webmail-d072.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CD766101EFA03D-624-573D9@webmail-d072.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: That's good company. On Thu, Dec 30, 2010 at 12:49 PM, wrote: > Some poets who died in 2010... > > Ai, 62, American poet > Rane Arroyo, 55, American poet > Susan Bright, American poet, publisher, activist > Judson Crews, 92, American poet > Lucille Clifton, 73, American poet (Blessing the Boats), Poet Laureate of > Maryland > Robert Dana, 80, American poet, Iowa poet laureate > Kent Foreman, 75, American poet > Michael Gizzi, 61, American poet and publisher > George Hitchcock, 96, American poet and publisher > Allen Hoey, 57, American poet and publisher > Tuli Kupferberg, 86, American poet, cartoonist and musician (The Fugs) > Morton Marcus, 73, American poet and prose poet > Stephen Morse, 65, American poet > Steve Orlen, 68, American poet > Peter Orlovsky, 76, American poet > Alan Planz, 73, American Poet > Omar Pound, 83, poet and translator, son of Ezra Pound > Jack Powers, American poet > Carolyn Rodgers, 69, American poet > Dorothy Rudy, 86, American poet > Leslie Scalapino, 65, American poet, publisher and playwright > Peter Seaton, 67, American poet > Alan Sullivan, 61, American poet > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Thu Dec 30 16:02:11 2010 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Thu, 30 Dec 2010 16:02:11 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] bragging rights, SF v. NYC In-Reply-To: <8CD766E28234C6C-1390-69FE7@webmail-d026.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CD75B0E6F399F1-F10-5E07D@webmail-d024.sysops.aol.com><4D1BB9A6.9040306@nut-n-but.net><4D1CD737.5000401@nut-n-but.net> <8CD766E28234C6C-1390-69FE7@webmail-d026.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <4D1CF353.7020909@nut-n-but.net> On 12/30/2010 2:23 PM, jforjames at aol.com wrote: > Bob, where is the Sackner collection? Or is that just a private > collection you know of? > To your ideal library cum art archive, you could add the Danowki > Poetry Library at Emory U... > http://marbl.library.emory.edu/collection-overview/raymond-danowski-poetry-library > My hero... > http://marbl.library.emory.edu/about/marbl-stories/raymond-danowski > Finnegan > A list of such places would be nice to have, James. The Sackner collection is technically private, I suppose. The building it's in is also the Sackner's residence--but it has visual poems and paintings and sculptures everywhere. Or so I assume, for that's the way the house they lived in for many years until recently was. It's open to almost anyone requesting permission to visit, or so it seems to me. Maybe you need a letter from someone like me, whom the Sackners know. I first visited it after my friend Karl Kempton wrote the Sackners I'd like to. I'd be happy to do the same for you or any other New-Poetry participant. Except Barry. (Just kidding.) Oh, it's in Miami. (555 NE 34th St., PH 1, Miami FL 33137) There's an online catalogue of its holdings. Huge, and never likely to be complete. The Sackners are trying to sell the collection, for they no longer have room for it. Ohio State University was close to purchasing it, I believe. They're asking several million for it. By any sane standard, it's worth it, but museums and universities have tight budgets for stuff like it. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Thu Dec 30 16:07:38 2010 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Thu, 30 Dec 2010 16:07:38 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] bragging rights, SF v. NYC In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4D1CF49A.1060509@nut-n-but.net> I love both SF and NY and have actually lived in both cities, although never for more than a week. NY was close to where I lived in Connecticut growing up, so I visited it a lot. It seemed the center of everything, then. If I could afford to, I've have a second home there, and a third in SF. --Bob From oedipa at gmail.com Thu Dec 30 16:47:28 2010 From: oedipa at gmail.com (karen) Date: Thu, 30 Dec 2010 13:47:28 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] bragging rights, SF v. NYC In-Reply-To: <4D1CF49A.1060509@nut-n-but.net> References: <4D1CF49A.1060509@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: I miss NY like hell. Though I was just in SF for Christmas and yearned for it too...and still have a rent controlled lease for an apt on Pacific and Jones (no dogs allowed and right now I have a dog). Seattle's drawback is it's very confused as to HOW to be a city. It's very good at being suburban though. It's good for poetry because of the Hugo House and the wonderful poetry bookstore Open Books...and the UW contributes it's MFAers to the mix and there are a lot of various writers up here. If you can steer clear of the New Age type poets that is...which there are many. There's a lot of bad poetry, but the Hugo House sets the bar high for open mics and readings and I like that. In SF, too many old, grouchy beat poets still running around who don't like things other than Beat Poetry. The Edinburgh Castle Pub in SF certainaly gets it's fair share of credit for being the KGB Bar of the West Coast...but it's fiction oriented. Fiction enjoys a great community in SF. Famous Poets live there...like Kay Ryan and Robert Hass and the more recent poet Atsuro Riley, but (with the exception of Hass) I found many of the poets there who I liked to be very reclusive. Which...I get actually. In NYC, the poetry community was simply amazing. And fun. And you could what you wanted to in a way. At least maybe I was oblivious to think so while I was there... But I'm in Seattle now. And finding it the hardest environment so far to write in. Seattle is the most stressful city I've ever lived in. Don't know why. Less community perhaps? People keep to themselves up here and it can be passive aggressive, which I have no stomach for. Thanks for the tip on Rebecca Solnit's book. I'm going right now to find it!!!! K On Thu, Dec 30, 2010 at 1:07 PM, Bob Grumman wrote: > I love both SF and NY and have actually lived in both cities, although > never for more than a week. NY was close to where I lived in Connecticut > growing up, so I visited it a lot. It seemed the center of everything, > then. If I could afford to, I've have a second home there, and a third in > SF. > > > --Bob > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- k -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From oedipa at gmail.com Thu Dec 30 16:50:20 2010 From: oedipa at gmail.com (karen) Date: Thu, 30 Dec 2010 13:50:20 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] bragging rights, SF v. NYC In-Reply-To: References: <4D1CF49A.1060509@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: Apologies for the numerous grammatical mistakes in that last post, dammit! Serves me right for multi-tasking. Anyway, an interesting thread. I don't know where you all live, but if any of you live here in Seattle and know of a writer's group willing to take on new members, please email me back channel. Thanks! On Thu, Dec 30, 2010 at 1:47 PM, karen wrote: > I miss NY like hell. Though I was just in SF for Christmas and yearned for > it too...and still have a rent controlled lease for an apt on Pacific and > Jones (no dogs allowed and right now I have a dog). Seattle's drawback is > it's very confused as to HOW to be a city. It's very good at being suburban > though. It's good for poetry because of the Hugo House and the wonderful > poetry bookstore Open Books...and the UW contributes it's MFAers to the mix > and there are a lot of various writers up here. If you can steer clear of > the New Age type poets that is...which there are many. There's a lot of bad > poetry, but the Hugo House sets the bar high for open mics and readings and > I like that. In SF, too many old, grouchy beat poets still running around > who don't like things other than Beat Poetry. The Edinburgh Castle Pub in > SF certainaly gets it's fair share of credit for being the KGB Bar of the > West Coast...but it's fiction oriented. Fiction enjoys a great community in > SF. Famous Poets live there...like Kay Ryan and Robert Hass and the more > recent poet Atsuro Riley, but (with the exception of Hass) I found many of > the poets there who I liked to be very reclusive. Which...I get actually. > > In NYC, the poetry community was simply amazing. And fun. And you could > what you wanted to in a way. At least maybe I was oblivious to think so > while I was there... > > But I'm in Seattle now. And finding it the hardest environment so far to > write in. Seattle is the most stressful city I've ever lived in. Don't > know why. Less community perhaps? People keep to themselves up here and it > can be passive aggressive, which I have no stomach for. > > Thanks for the tip on Rebecca Solnit's book. I'm going right now to find > it!!!! > > K > > > > On Thu, Dec 30, 2010 at 1:07 PM, Bob Grumman wrote: > >> I love both SF and NY and have actually lived in both cities, although >> never for more than a week. NY was close to where I lived in Connecticut >> growing up, so I visited it a lot. It seemed the center of everything, >> then. If I could afford to, I've have a second home there, and a third in >> SF. >> >> >> --Bob >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> > > > > -- > k > -- k -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Thu Dec 30 21:01:40 2010 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Thu, 30 Dec 2010 21:01:40 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] ubi sunt 2010 In-Reply-To: References: <8CD766101EFA03D-624-573D9@webmail-d072.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <8CD76A5CB65321A-10D0-42ADB@webmail-m034.sysops.aol.com> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HQUKSGTFphs&feature=player_embedded#! -----Original Message----- From: Tad Richards To: NewPoetry List Sent: Thu, Dec 30, 2010 3:17 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] ubi sunt 2010 That's good company. On Thu, Dec 30, 2010 at 12:49 PM, wrote: Some poets who died in 2010... Ai, 62, American poet Rane Arroyo, 55, American poet Susan Bright, American poet, publisher, activist Judson Crews, 92, American poet Lucille Clifton, 73, American poet (Blessing the Boats), Poet Laureate of Maryland Robert Dana, 80, American poet, Iowa poet laureate Kent Foreman, 75, American poet Michael Gizzi, 61, American poet and publisher George Hitchcock, 96, American poet and publisher Allen Hoey, 57, American poet and publisher Tuli Kupferberg, 86, American poet, cartoonist and musician (The Fugs) Morton Marcus, 73, American poet and prose poet Stephen Morse, 65, American poet Steve Orlen, 68, American poet Peter Orlovsky, 76, American poet Alan Planz, 73, American Poet Omar Pound, 83, poet and translator, son of Ezra Pound Jack Powers, American poet Carolyn Rodgers, 69, American poet Dorothy Rudy, 86, American poet Leslie Scalapino, 65, American poet, publisher and playwright Peter Seaton, 67, American poet Alan Sullivan, 61, American poet _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Thu Dec 30 21:05:38 2010 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Thu, 30 Dec 2010 21:05:38 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] zombie haiku In-Reply-To: References: <8CD766101EFA03D-624-573D9@webmail-d072.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <8CD76A65A3E9A37-10D0-42BB1@webmail-m034.sysops.aol.com> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9rUFcrP99rU&NR=1 A subgenre I'd not heard of. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bircumplus at yahoo.co.uk Fri Dec 31 02:32:20 2010 From: bircumplus at yahoo.co.uk (David Bircumshaw) Date: Fri, 31 Dec 2010 07:32:20 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Turnspell In-Reply-To: <8CD76A5CB65321A-10D0-42ADB@webmail-m034.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <38260.97714.qm@web28513.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Unhappy and Miserable New Year to every authoritarian control freak in any walk of life, with a special dose of ill-wishes for those who try to turn the poor art of poetry into a field for the projection of their miserable thwarted egos. And a Joyful and Delightful Solar Turn to all you Good Guys out there. David Bircumshaw Website: http://www.staplednapkin.org.uk Blog: http://groggydays.blogspot.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Fri Dec 31 03:54:03 2010 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Fri, 31 Dec 2010 09:54:03 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] ubi sunt 2010 In-Reply-To: <8CD766101EFA03D-624-573D9@webmail-d072.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CD766101EFA03D-624-573D9@webmail-d072.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: They seems to me all young with a few exception. I'd better start doing something else... On Thu, Dec 30, 2010 at 6:49 PM, wrote: > Some poets who died in 2010... > > Ai, 62, American poet > Rane Arroyo, 55, American poet > Susan Bright, American poet, publisher, activist > Judson Crews, 92, American poet > Lucille Clifton, 73, American poet (Blessing the Boats), Poet Laureate of > Maryland > Robert Dana, 80, American poet, Iowa poet laureate > Kent Foreman, 75, American poet > Michael Gizzi, 61, American poet and publisher > George Hitchcock, 96, American poet and publisher > Allen Hoey, 57, American poet and publisher > Tuli Kupferberg, 86, American poet, cartoonist and musician (The Fugs) > Morton Marcus, 73, American poet and prose poet > Stephen Morse, 65, American poet > Steve Orlen, 68, American poet > Peter Orlovsky, 76, American poet > Alan Planz, 73, American Poet > Omar Pound, 83, poet and translator, son of Ezra Pound > Jack Powers, American poet > Carolyn Rodgers, 69, American poet > Dorothy Rudy, 86, American poet > Leslie Scalapino, 65, American poet, publisher and playwright > Peter Seaton, 67, American poet > Alan Sullivan, 61, American poet > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Fri Dec 31 04:04:21 2010 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Fri, 31 Dec 2010 10:04:21 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] zombie haiku In-Reply-To: <8CD76A65A3E9A37-10D0-42BB1@webmail-m034.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CD766101EFA03D-624-573D9@webmail-d072.sysops.aol.com> <8CD76A65A3E9A37-10D0-42BB1@webmail-m034.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: I was touched by the easy vampire literature that conquered my teenage students. Is there anybody who knows what is behind this wave, what kind of sociological pressures? On Fri, Dec 31, 2010 at 3:05 AM, wrote: > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9rUFcrP99rU&NR=1 > > A subgenre I'd not heard of. > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Fri Dec 31 06:51:57 2010 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Fri, 31 Dec 2010 06:51:57 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] zombie haiku In-Reply-To: <8CD76A65A3E9A37-10D0-42BB1@webmail-m034.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CD766101EFA03D-624-573D9@webmail-d072.sysops.aol.com> <8CD76A65A3E9A37-10D0-42BB1@webmail-m034.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <4D1DC3DD.4000409@nut-n-but.net> Amusing idea but based on a rather superficial understanding of the poets parodied, and almost no understanding of haiku. --Bob From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Fri Dec 31 06:59:20 2010 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Fri, 31 Dec 2010 12:59:20 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] from Edgar Cayce Message-ID: Think on This ... The ceremony [sealing of the tomb of records at Gizeh] was long; the clanging of the apex by the gavel that was used in the sounding of the placing. Hence there has arisen from this ceremony many of those things that may be seen in the present; as the call to prayer, the church bell in the present, may be termed a descendant; the sounding of the trumpet as the call to arms, or that as revelry; the sound as of those that make for mourning, in the putting away of the body; the sounding as of ringing in the new year, the sounding as of the coming of the bridegroom; all have their inception from the sound that was made that kept the earth's record of the earth's building, as to that from the change. Edgar Cayce Reading 378-14 Become part of the legacy. -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Fri Dec 31 07:05:41 2010 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Fri, 31 Dec 2010 07:05:41 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] zombie haiku In-Reply-To: References: <8CD766101EFA03D-624-573D9@webmail-d072.sysops.aol.com> <8CD76A65A3E9A37-10D0-42BB1@webmail-m034.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <4D1DC715.4090507@nut-n-but.net> On 12/31/2010 4:04 AM, Anny Ballardini wrote: > I was touched by the easy vampire literature that conquered my teenage > students. Is there anybody who knows what is behind this wave, what > kind of sociological pressures? It's psychological, not sociological. I haven't thought about it enough to have a theory but do know that boys for sure, and--apparently girls (though I don't remember my sister's involvement--go through a Stephen King phase. For a while, I loved horror comic books, but not for as long as most of my friends. Of course, scary stories are a staple of all cultures, but come into much greater prominence for teen-agers. Part of the turn against adults, and the world. Maybe teen-agers suddenly don't feel as protected as they did as children, having become more aware of how large the world is. And they immunize themselves to the monsters in it by exposing themselves to the safe monsters in movies and comics. And/or fantasize being monsters themselves with super-powers. That zombies and the like annoy their parents helps a lot. Just a few thoughts. --Bob From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Fri Dec 31 07:19:15 2010 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Fri, 31 Dec 2010 13:19:15 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] zombie haiku In-Reply-To: <4D1DC715.4090507@nut-n-but.net> References: <8CD766101EFA03D-624-573D9@webmail-d072.sysops.aol.com> <8CD76A65A3E9A37-10D0-42BB1@webmail-m034.sysops.aol.com> <4D1DC715.4090507@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: Hi Bob, what I am talking about are a whole bunch of teenagers (girls) who barely do their homework (a couple of pages) but have read all the books by [I guess it is Anne Rice] and they are all Vampire stories. Since I am not interested in the authors, I had to google the info and I am coming up with the following: http://www.randomwalkthroughfilm.com/2008/11/twilight.html I went in with fairly low expectations. But I thought I'd give it a try. I've liked the Buffy/Angel genre, a smattering of Anne Rice, The Southern Vampire Tales, and even managed to get through a few Anita Blake novels (before they got way to ridiculous for my taste). Some of these things work better on the page, some better on the screen. I'm not sure I'd particularly enjoy the Twilight novels, but I must admit I sort of got into this film. The Twilight series (a different Twilight from the one of the '60s) What is behind this? On Fri, Dec 31, 2010 at 1:05 PM, Bob Grumman wrote: > On 12/31/2010 4:04 AM, Anny Ballardini wrote: > >> I was touched by the easy vampire literature that conquered my teenage >> students. Is there anybody who knows what is behind this wave, what kind of >> sociological pressures? >> > It's psychological, not sociological. I haven't thought about it enough to > have a theory but do know that boys for sure, and--apparently girls (though > I don't remember my sister's involvement--go through a Stephen King phase. > For a while, I loved horror comic books, but not for as long as most of my > friends. Of course, scary stories are a staple of all cultures, but come > into much greater prominence for teen-agers. Part of the turn against > adults, and the world. Maybe teen-agers suddenly don't feel as protected as > they did as children, having become more aware of how large the world is. > And they immunize themselves to the monsters in it by exposing themselves > to the safe monsters in movies and comics. And/or fantasize being monsters > themselves with super-powers. That zombies and the like annoy their parents > helps a lot. > > Just a few thoughts. > > --Bob > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Fri Dec 31 07:46:46 2010 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Fri, 31 Dec 2010 07:46:46 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] zombie haiku In-Reply-To: References: <8CD766101EFA03D-624-573D9@webmail-d072.sysops.aol.com> <8CD76A65A3E9A37-10D0-42BB1@webmail-m034.sysops.aol.com><4D1DC715 .4090507@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <4D1DD0B6.5070908@nut-n-but.net> > The Twilight series (a different Twilight from the one of the '60s) > > What is behind this? I think it's just the latest variation on the perennial fascination of teen-agers with the occult and magic and making their own-anti-adult secret world. Maybe it's vampires because they are the most human of occult figures--and can fly! They are daintily violent, too, which may account for their particular appeal to girls--they don't tear their victims apart like werewolves, they surgically puncture them. . . . There are a lot of "young adult" novels besides the vampire ones that are very popular. A huge number are ugly duckling narratives--the outcast who is laughed at but in the end becomes a super-hero--via esp, precognition, the ability to become invisible, or fly, or shoot laser beams out of his eyes to destroy evil aliens, etc. I read a bunch left in high school English classrooms for outside reading when I was a sub. I enjoyed most of them. There are adult vampire series, too, which aren't bad. Usually good vampires versus evil vampires. --Bob From fox.skip at gmail.com Fri Dec 31 08:12:59 2010 From: fox.skip at gmail.com (Skip Fox) Date: Fri, 31 Dec 2010 07:12:59 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Midwinter Day, by Bernadette Mayer Message-ID: In these dark days, a delight. The wealth of human and artistic experience on the shortest day of the year, poised against Midsummer's Night's Dream and the wealth of human and imaginative experience in the shortest night. In Mayer's text, Shakespeare leads us (or at least, accompanies us) though the dreams of the opening section. I recommend, especially in the dark days that surround us. Text as light source. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From carol.dorf at gmail.com Fri Dec 31 09:38:44 2010 From: carol.dorf at gmail.com (carol dorf) Date: Fri, 31 Dec 2010 06:38:44 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] zombie haiku In-Reply-To: References: <8CD766101EFA03D-624-573D9@webmail-d072.sysops.aol.com> <8CD76A65A3E9A37-10D0-42BB1@webmail-m034.sysops.aol.com> <4D1DC715.4090507@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: "What what I am talking about are a whole bunch of teenagers (girls) who barely do their homework (a couple of pages) but have read all the books by [I guess it is Anne Rice] and they are all Vampire stories. Since I am not interested in the authors, I had to google the info" Hi Anny and Bob, My take judging by my students and the teens in our mother-daughter book group, and by having read the first in the Twilight series (the sentence by sentence writing is awful) is that it is about safe/unsafe sex. If you "kiss" a vampire you become one in the Twilight books, so one must hold on to chastity and the good vampire restrains himself (interestingly the author is a fundamentalist Christian). There are differences between vampire tales -- in the Buffy series, which tends to be a favorite of the girls who are stronger students, a high school girl kills vampires and keeps rescuing the lead boy character, and sometimes her single mother. Here the vampires/monsters tend to represent predatory men including fascist ideologues. However, the girl also finds herself attracted to some of the "good" vampires in later episodes, but retains her ability to destroy them. Anne Rice's books seem to be aimed at an older audience, and in contrast to the Twilight books are well-written (her husband was the poet/artist Stan Rice.) Octavia Butler wrote a vampire book where the vampires are aliens, and the story is about interspecies love/interdependence, a theme she's explored in a number of books. As an adult, I would prefer that teens stayed with the "ugly duckling" narrative; it seems to promise more for the future when you come into your powers. Of course, we can only control the required reading (and that partially as they have the choice of whether or not to read the required reading.) Carol Dorf poetry at talkingwriting.com http://talkingwriting.com/ (the December issue is on kids books) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Fri Dec 31 10:09:40 2010 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Fri, 31 Dec 2010 16:09:40 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] zombie haiku In-Reply-To: References: <8CD766101EFA03D-624-573D9@webmail-d072.sysops.aol.com> <8CD76A65A3E9A37-10D0-42BB1@webmail-m034.sysops.aol.com> <4D1DC715.4090507@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: Thanks Carol, I think this answers my question. Best wishes, Anny On Fri, Dec 31, 2010 at 3:38 PM, carol dorf wrote: > > > "What what I am talking about are a whole bunch of teenagers (girls) who > barely do their homework (a couple of pages) but have read all the books by > [I guess it is Anne Rice] and they are all Vampire stories. Since I am not > interested in the authors, I had to google the info" > > Hi Anny and Bob, > > My take judging by my students and the teens in our mother-daughter book > group, and by having read the first in the Twilight series (the sentence by > sentence writing is awful) is that it is about safe/unsafe sex. If you > "kiss" a vampire you become one in the Twilight books, so one must hold on > to chastity and the good vampire restrains himself (interestingly the author > is a fundamentalist Christian). > > There are differences between vampire tales -- in the Buffy series, which > tends to be a favorite of the girls who are stronger students, a high school > girl kills vampires and keeps rescuing the lead boy character, and sometimes > her single mother. Here the vampires/monsters tend to represent predatory > men including fascist ideologues. However, the girl also finds herself > attracted to some of the "good" vampires in later episodes, but retains her > ability to destroy them. Anne Rice's books seem to be aimed at an older > audience, and in contrast to the Twilight books are well-written (her > husband was the poet/artist Stan Rice.) Octavia Butler wrote a vampire book > where the vampires are aliens, and the story is about interspecies > love/interdependence, a theme she's explored in a number of books. > > As an adult, I would prefer that teens stayed with the "ugly duckling" > narrative; it seems to promise more for the future when you come into your > powers. Of course, we can only control the required reading (and that > partially as they have the choice of whether or not to read the required > reading.) > > Carol Dorf > poetry at talkingwriting.com > http://talkingwriting.com/ > (the December issue is on kids books) > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Fri Dec 31 10:25:58 2010 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Fri, 31 Dec 2010 10:25:58 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] zombie haiku In-Reply-To: References: <8CD766101EFA03D-624-573D9@webmail-d072.sysops.aol.com> <8CD76A65A3E9A37-10D0-42BB1@webmail-m034.sysops.aol.com><4D1DC715 .4090507@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <4D1DF606.5000109@nut-n-but.net> Interesting filling in of details, Carol. I wasn't familiar with the twilight series. Fascinating variation. Now for a series about a free thinker trying to save friends from angels whose kisses make their victims fundamentalist Christians! --Bob From carol.dorf at gmail.com Fri Dec 31 10:31:30 2010 From: carol.dorf at gmail.com (carol dorf) Date: Fri, 31 Dec 2010 07:31:30 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] zombie haiku In-Reply-To: <4D1DF606.5000109@nut-n-but.net> References: <8CD766101EFA03D-624-573D9@webmail-d072.sysops.aol.com> <8CD76A65A3E9A37-10D0-42BB1@webmail-m034.sysops.aol.com> <4D1DF606.5000109@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: Unfortunately, Twilight is the one that has had obsessive attention (and I believe has been a best seller) in the last few years. Maybe we can talk Lemony Snicket or Patricia Wrede into writing the free thinker series (Wrede actually has written a number of subversive fairy tale books for middle-grade/ya readers; and Daniel Handler has done a pretty good job of playing with the orphan tale.) Carol On Fri, Dec 31, 2010 at 7:25 AM, Bob Grumman wrote: > Interesting filling in of details, Carol. I wasn't familiar with the > twilight series. Fascinating variation. Now for a series about a free > thinker trying to save friends from angels whose kisses make their victims > fundamentalist Christians! > > > --Bob > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From junction at earthlink.net Fri Dec 31 10:49:22 2010 From: junction at earthlink.net (Mark Weiss) Date: Fri, 31 Dec 2010 10:49:22 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] zombie haiku In-Reply-To: <4D1DF606.5000109@nut-n-but.net> References: <8CD766101EFA03D-624-573D9@webmail-d072.sysops.aol.com> <8CD76A65A3E9A37-10D0-42BB1@webmail-m034.sysops.aol.com> <4D1DC715 .4090507@nut-n-but.net> <4D1DF606.5000109@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: Dracula, which was written for adults, establishes the themes--sex and power. Bad girls may wind up dead (or undead), but they have all the fun. Required reading. I read it for the first time as a preadolescent. Scared me to death, but the sex went right past me. Those were more innocent times. I watched Buffy as a middle-aged voyeur, enjoyed it immensely. Like the film from which it came, the series was about female entitlement--you could beat up anybody and everybody and still be the sexiest chick in town. I haven't more than dipped into any of the contemporary novels, and most of the films are pretty dreadful. An exception: John Landis' "Innocent Blood." Very sexy, and very funny. Robert Loggia by the end has eaten all the scenery and most of the cast. But the film belongs to Anne Parillaud. Highly recommended. Best to watch after the kids are asleep. Mark At 10:25 AM 12/31/2010, you wrote: >Interesting filling in of details, Carol. I >wasn't familiar with the twilight >series. Fascinating variation. Now for a >series about a free thinker trying to save >friends from angels whose kisses make their victims fundamentalist Christians! > >--Bob >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry New from Chax Press: Mark Weiss, As Landscape. $16. Order from http://www.chax.org/poets/weiss.htm "What a beautiful set of circumstances! What a lovely concatenation of particulars. Here is the poet alive in every sense of the word, and through every one of his senses. Instead of missing a beat or a part, Weiss? fragments are like Chekhov?s short stories?the more that gets left out, the more they seem to contain One can hear echoes from all the various ancestors...[but] the voice, at its center, its core, is pure Mark Weiss. His use of the fragment is both elegant and bafflingly clear, a pure musical threnody [it] opens a window, not only into a mind, but a person, a personality, this human figure at the emotional center of the poem." M.G. Stephens, in Jacket. http://jacketmagazine.com/40/r-weiss-rb-stephens.shtml -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From barry.spacks at verizon.net Fri Dec 31 11:27:35 2010 From: barry.spacks at verizon.net (Barry Spacks) Date: Fri, 31 Dec 2010 08:27:35 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] Bafflingly In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <0FE4D824-C7B2-4D62-9BF1-2E7A4B9A49C7@verizon.net> On Dec 31, 2010, at 1:01 AM, Bob G. wrote: > Except Barry. (Just kidding.) Bafflingly, Bob, my work should be IN the collection. > From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Fri Dec 31 12:19:05 2010 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Fri, 31 Dec 2010 12:19:05 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Bafflingly In-Reply-To: <0FE4D824-C7B2-4D62-9BF1-2E7A4B9A49C7@verizon.net> References: <0FE4D824-C7B2-4D62-9BF1-2E7A4B9A49C7@verizon.net> Message-ID: <4D1E1089.1020303@nut-n-but.net> On 12/31/2010 11:27 AM, Barry Spacks wrote: > > On Dec 31, 2010, at 1:01 AM, Bob G. wrote: > >> Except Barry. (Just kidding.) > > Bafflingly, Bob, my work should be IN the collection. Maybe, Barry. I've not seen any of your visual poetry, so wouldn't know. I /have/ seen some of your (excellent) visimages (i.e., works of visual art). Maybe the Sackners would consider them to qualify as visual poetry. They have other things in their archive, such as beat poetry and early twentieth-century Russian paintings. I've even gotten, uh, wilshberian poetry into the collection--because they take everything my press prints, and I've published six or seven collections of wilshberian poetry. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Fri Dec 31 14:41:50 2010 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Fri, 31 Dec 2010 20:41:50 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Carol Dorf and Camille Martin Message-ID: Carol Dorf's review of Camille Martin's sonnets: http://rogueembryo.wordpress.com/2010/12/01/carol-dorf-reviews-camille-martins-sonnets/ -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Fri Dec 31 16:55:45 2010 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Fri, 31 Dec 2010 16:55:45 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] As blessing for the new year Message-ID: <8CD774C9C732991-930-7DE83@webmail-d086.sysops.aol.com> http://ursprache.blogspot.com/2010/12/simple-place.html -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ciccariello at gmail.com Thu Dec 30 01:05:41 2010 From: ciccariello at gmail.com (Peter ciccariello) Date: Thu, 30 Dec 2010 06:05:41 -0000 Subject: [New-Poetry] "word being born" on invisible notes Message-ID: "word being born" on invisible notes - http://tinyurl.com/nwceb5 -- Peter Ciccariello -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From richard.wilsnack at med.und.edu Wed Dec 15 15:21:38 2010 From: richard.wilsnack at med.und.edu (Wilsnack, Richard) Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2010 20:21:38 -0000 Subject: [New-Poetry] Cusack as Poe, and Hollywood does the poets In-Reply-To: References: <8CD6A82EEF61756-17EC-AA0B@webmail-d084.sysops.aol.com> <307125.73970.qm@web120507.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <424A7A6D198D2747A9841D16E563736E028CED2CF6@VA3DIAXVS211.RED001.local> Here is a bit of potentially forgotten lore about Poe's death, much more unromantic than pursuit of a serial killer a la C. Auguste Dupin: In 2009 Roger A Francis, MD, a Missouri physician and radiologist, published an article in the journal Omega titled "The Final Days of Edgar Allan Poe: Clues to an Old Mystery Using 21st Century Medical Science" (vo. 60, no. 2, pp. 165-1730. Here are a few key excerpts: On Wednesday, October 3, 1849, when Poe was in Baltimore, "A note from a printer, Jos. W. Walker, to Dr. J. E. Snodgrass, an acquaintance of Poe, describes having found Poe 'rather the worse for wear' and 'in need of immediate assistance' at Ryan's 4th Ward Polls, a tavern. When Dr. Snodgrass arrived, he found Poe unconscious and in cheap, soiled clothing which were not customary for Poe. Also, no mention is made of any money being found with Poe, suggesting that he may have been mugged. Assuming Poe was intoxicated, Snodgrass made arrangements for Poe to sleep it off in a room upstairs at the tavern, but sent for Poe's uncle, Henry Herring. Mr. Herring convinced Snodgrass that Poe should be taken to the local hospital instead. Poe, still unconscious, was carried to a waiting carriage and transported to the hospital in the early afternoon... Poe was admitted to Washington College Hospital at 5 o'clock in the afternoon, and was placed, still unconscious, in a private room in a section of the hospital customarily used for patients with alcohol problems. He is placed under the care of Dr. John Moran, resident physician." On Thursday, October 4, "Poe regained consciousness at about 3 AM and Dr. Moran attempted to question Poe, but the patient appeared incoherent and disoriented. He stated that he had left a wife behind in Richmond, but didn't know what happened to his trunk of clothing. Poe exhibited tremors, sweating, delirium, and hallucinations (talking to walls)... In an article published several years later, Dr. Moran also described a twitching of the eyelids, and some shaking of the limbs." On Friday and Saturday, October 5 and 6, "Poe continued in a state of delirium, and could not be calmed by anything done by his caregivers. On Saturday night Poe for several hours reportedly called out the name of someone, possibly 'Reynold,' although no one by that name could be traced to the hospital or Poe..." At 3 AM on Sunday, October 7, 1849, Poe "...seemed to calm down and rest briefly. Then, 'quietly turning his head, he said, 'Lord help my soul,' and expired' [according to Dr. Moran's account]. There is no record of a death certificate of any postmortem examination." Dr. Francis then proceeds to summarize Poe's apparent symptoms and the possibilities for differential diagnosis. Francis then offers arguments *against* each of the following possibilities as a major factor in Poe's death: trauma to the brain, intracranial infections, brain tumors, seizure disorder (epilepsy), diabetic coma, stroke or transient ischemic attack, and other medical illnesses. He then concludes on alcohol as the primary factor, as follows: "Poe was found unconscious and taken to a hospital. He regained some level of consciousness the next morning, but exhibited cognitive imparment, delirium, sweating, possible seizure activity, and apparent hallucinations. These persisted until he suddenly died 4 days later after admission. There were no signs of trauma, but circumstances suggest that he may have been robbed of clothing and his belongings. He had a long history of binge drinking, but his whereabouts for several days before he was found unconscious are unknown. [Based on Poe's personal history, his family history of alcoholism, his tendency to drink in episodic binges, and the characteristics of withdrawal from extended binge drinking]... the most likely explanation for Poe's death is the effects of alcohol intoxication followed by withdrawal syndrome, delirium tremens, and possibly a neurological complication such as central pontine myelinolysis [degeneration of the myelin sheath protecting nerve tissue in the brain stem]. This would indicate that Poe had been binge drinking for the days before being found unconscious at the tavern in Baltimore. Despite the care available in a hospital in 1849, he became semiconscious the next morning, but developed withdrawal symptoms including delirium tremens and probably Wernicke-Korsakoff syndrome [an effect of thiamine deficiency that can occur in chronic alcoholics, resulting in confusion, amnesia, tremor, memory impairment, loss of body coordination, and ultimately coma]. Without adequate fluid and nutritional support, he progressed to coma and death. The terminal event may have been central pontine myelinosis. ...other possible causes of death [listed in the preceding paragraph] are not entirely consistent with the known sequence of events and Poe's past history." I came across this article in the context of my career research on the epidemiology of alcohol use/abuse, with special emphasis on gender differences. My knowledge about chronic alcoholism is limited to the extent that I find Dr. Francis' arguments credible, but I cannot comment with any authority on alternative medical hypotheses about Poe's death. Richard W. Wilsnack richard.wilsnack at med.und.edu -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: