From jforjames at aol.com Thu Oct 1 09:21:39 2009 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Thu, 01 Oct 2009 09:21:39 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Plumly named Md.'s poet laureate Message-ID: <8CC10B13E6E6B06-2B70-1C891@webmail-m050.sysops.aol.com> http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/maryland/bal-stanley-plumly-poet-0929,0,1130546.story UM professor Plumly named Md.'s poet laureate The Associated Press ? 2:28 p.m. EDT, September 29, 2009 An award-winning University of Maryland professor who founded the school's Master of Fine Arts program in creative writing has been named the state's poet laureate. Stanley Plumly said he's flattered and looks forward to being part of the best of Maryland's culture. Gov. Martin O'Malley announced the honor Tuesday, saying Plumly is one of the nation's most critically acclaimed poets -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Thu Oct 1 12:21:50 2009 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Thu, 01 Oct 2009 12:21:50 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: SPD RECOMMENDS! New Titles Sep 17-30 In-Reply-To: <10cc02e4a40df9279b8603bacd8173bf@lists.spdbooks.org> References: <10cc02e4a40df9279b8603bacd8173bf@lists.spdbooks.org> Message-ID: <8CC10CA6A54DD6A-2B70-1FF29@webmail-m050.sysops.aol.com> Subject: SPD RECOMMENDS! New Titles Sep 17-30 1.800.869.7553 | fax: 1.510.524.0852 orders at spdbooks.org | www.spdbooks.org Try Electronic Ordering! SPD is on Pubnet: SAN 1066617 Questions? Contact Clay Banes at clay at spdbooks.org BLOG | FACEBOOK | TWITTER New Poetry from New Issues Poetry & Prose MISSING HER Claudia Keelan $15 | paper | 79 pp. New Issues Poetry & Prose ISBN: 9781930974869 Poetry. "Keelan's work, always politically engaged, here takes a tender and personal turn. Much of what is mourned in these interwoven elegies is private, close in, but even the larger, more public themes?the Vietnam War, Jesus, the oil industry, September 11?are brought to an intimate scale. The central long poem 'Everybody's Autobiography' achieves a masterful fusion of political history, personal responsibility, and communal grief. A deep-feeling collection not afraid to look loss in the face"?Cole Swensen. LINK New Poetry from Coffee House Press HANDLING DESTINY Adrian Castro $16 | paper | 92 pp. Coffee House Press ISBN: 9781566892353 Poetry. Latin American Studies. Enchanting both the ear and the soul, this collection is the third in Adrian Castro's series on the diasporic triangle of Africa, the Caribbean, and North America. Deeply spiritual, laced with history and myth, and tempered by the region's tumultuous past, these poems "... keep flying forward / Sank?fa-like / looking back into history at us." "Adrian Castro weaves m yth, history, music, courage, spirit and heart deep with knowledge and tenderness into a poetry that is all fire: an original and essential voice"?Chris Abani. LINK New Poetry from Cypher Books PINK ELEPHANT Rachel McKibbens $12.95 | paper | 96 pp. Cypher Books ISBN: 9780981913131 Poetry. PINK ELEPHANT is Rachel McKibbens' collection of beautifully crafted, emotionally searing poems depicting the fractured mythology of a family's tumultuous life. Picking up where Plath and Sexton have left off, McKibbens threatens the comfortable confines of confessional poetry with a take-no-prisoners surrealist and super-real edge. By creating a folklore out of brutality and violence (borne from misplaced or absent love) McKibbens ultimately locates both love and forgiveness, fearlessly placing them in their rightful home. McKibbens' PINK ELEPHANT is an audacious debut. LINK New Poetry in Translation from Noemi Press GUARDIANS OF THE SECRET Lila Zemborain $15 | paper | 84 pp. Noemi Press ISBN: 9781934819050 Poetry. Latino/Latina Studies. Translated from the Spanish by Rose Alcal?. "Lila Zemborain's power subverts paper: her words turn pages into films of blurred or incomplete images. The references are specific, but what is happening remains stubbornly a question defying the definitive answer except for what a reader is moved to speculate... These poems' secrets are within you"?Eileen Tabios. LINK New Poetry from Instance Press COMMUTER J ames Belflower $15 | paper | 86 pp. Instance Press ISBN: 9780967985473 Poetry. Modeling the courage of the witness as a compelling poetic subjectivity, COMMUTER attempts to encourage response by negotiating notions of the self. Juliana Spahr calls COMMUTER "a painfully beautiful and transformatively aestheticized book." LINK New Poetry from Copper Canyon Press THE DANCE OF NO HARD FEELINGS Mark Bibbins $15 | paper | 97 pp. Copper Canyon Press ISBN: 9781556592928 Poetry. The poems in THE DANCE OF NO HARD FEELINGS are informed by political blogs, electronic music, advertising slogans, and the devil himself (think Mick Jagger more than Milton). Sly elegies and erotic love poems unlatch themselves from time and place and question the concept of a queer sensibility. Like Frank O'Hara, Mark Bibbins mines irony and wry cynicism while celebrating empathy and beauty, advocating all the while that dancing-while-thinking is the best strategy for living. "Bibbins ... has the courage to stop, to pin down the always irrational present moment, and the reader is eager to follow, to inhale its scathing or enticing perfume.... A brilliant young poet"?John Ashbery. LINK New Poetry from Book Thug EXPEDITIONS OF A CHIM?RA Oana Avasilichioaei and Er?n Moure $20 | paper | 89 pp. Book Thug ISBN: 9781897388471 Poetry. Expeditions, taken up by the explorers we all are, ultimately cannot be read. Only experienced. On venturing into it, you'll find you r ticket is no good, expired, or valid only on Tuesday. Your fellow travelers will tell you you are wearing the wrong shoes. If you force your way past the gate, you will stub your toe, scrape your shins, lose your suitcase, throw the book across the room in a fit of outrage or fall under its spell and suddenly find it half-submerged in your bathwater. At times, you will even laugh aloud. EXPEDITIONS OF A CHIM?RA is dialogic. Four pairs of hands try their luck at a game of cards. Nearby, questions sit, waiting to be asked. These expeditions are not progressions but digressions; they are translational in their effort to pull the author, kicking and screaming, out of the hat of authorial impossibilities. LINK New Poetry from Omnidawn PENURY Myung Mi Kim $15.95 | paper | 128 pp. Omnidawn ISBN: 9781890650377 Poetry. In PENURY, Myung Mi Kim probes sanctioned norms of cognition by breaking communication into its most discrete components. With these irruptions and suspensions, she writes into extremes of forced loss, violence, and impoverishment. Exposing latent relations in sound and sense, Kim proposes how new ethical awareness can be encountered where the word and its meaning/s are formed. Here, language is not offered as transparent communication of ideas, but as testament to and disruption of oppressive dominant concepts and cultural practices. "Penury" means poverty, but in this text's radical relation to lack, we hear the most elemental and active forms of change. LINK =0 A New Poetry from Wave Books MUSEUM OF ACCIDENTS Rachel Zucker $14 | paper | 82 pp. Wave Books ISBN: 9781933517421 Poetry. A brutally honest epic of domestic proportions. MUSEUM OF ACCIDENTS rends the terrorizing forces of modern existence from abstraction and places them directly in our laps. The anxieties and elations of motherhood and marriage unfold throughout poems of uncompromising courage, compassion and fever. "Rachel Zucker may be Generation X's likeliest heir to the confessional legacy of Sylvia Plath, Louise Gluck, and Sharon Olds"?The Believer. LINK New Fiction from Ellipsis Press SHADOWPLAY Norman Lock $13 | paper | 138 pp. Ellipsis Press ISBN: 9780963753632 Fiction. In Java, a master of the shadow-puppet theater seeks to possess?by his art?a woman, who perishes as though by the contagion of his unnatural desire. SHADOWPLAY is a meditation on story-telling as an act of seizure, a parable of obsession and of the danger of confounding the real with its representations. " journey as delicious as it is threatening"?R.M. Berry. "[Lock's] prose is melodial, and alert to every signal from the unseen"?Gary Lutz. "Wise up and get all you can of Lock"?Gordon Lish. "All hail Lock, whose narrative soul sings fairy tales..."?Kate Bernheimer. "Lock channels...our gorgeous desolation, our longing for connection, both earthly and divine"?Dawn Raffel. LINK New Poetry & Art from Litmus Press 0A AUFGABE NO. 8 E. Tracy Grinnell, Paul Foster Johnson, Julian T. Brolaski and Rachel Bers, Eds. $12 | paper | 320 pp. Litmus Press ISBN: 9781933959092 Magazine. Poetry. Art. Guest edited by Matvei Yankelevich. AUFGABE NO. 8 features Russian poetry in translation by Elena Fanailova, Dmitry Golynko, Linor Goralik, Sergey Kruglov, Dmitry Kuzmin, Kirill Medvedev, Anton Ochirov, Andrey Sen-Senkov, Aleksandr Skidan, Maria Stepanova, Dmitry Vodennikov, Sergey Zavyalov, Igor Zhukov, Tatiana Zima, Olga Zondberg. American poetry by Diane Ward, Kimberly Lyons, Fran?ois Turcot, Akilah Oliver, Damaris Calder?n, Tyrone Williams, Eduardo Mil?n, Miles Champion, Suzanne Jacob, Dana Ward, Nathalie Stephens (Nathana?l), Paolo Javier, Alan Davies, Trish Salah, and others! Also, featuring new artwork by Kim Beck. LINK New Poetry from Ugly Duckling Presse ESCAPE FROM COMBRAY Rick Snyder $14 | paper | 80 pp. Ugly Duckling Presse ISBN: 9781933254517 Poetry. ESCAPE FROM COMBRAY presents an intimate cycle of poems exploring the growing sense of urban ennui and dislocation affecting a generation of Americans. Snyder's poems evokes a psychogeographic landscape where quotidian symbols of the working class juxtapose with the timeless profundity of Proust, Virgil, and Dante. "Stan Brakhage writes 'The American inherently struggles to be gentle and at the same time not to be taken advantage of.' Nowhere is this notion more evident than in Rick Snyder's remarkable poems, whose sweet-bitter speakers reveal the numer ous states (both territories and conditions) with which?and in which?to fall in love and take issue. I'm very glad this book is in the world"?Graham Foust. LINK New Poetry from Adventures in Poetry/Zephyr Press THE SPOONLIGHT INSTITUTE Alan Bernheimer $14.95 | paper | 112 pp. Adventures in Poetry/Zephyr Press ISBN: 9780976161288 Poetry. This collection includes recent work; brief selections from his first two books; the entirety of BILLIONESQUE (The Figures, 1999); and the play Particle Arms, which was produced by the San Francisco Poets Theater in the early '80s. LINK New Poetry from BlazeVOX Books THE FUTURE IS HAPPY Sarah Sarai $16 | paper | 83 pp. BlazeVOX Books ISBN: 9781935402350 Poetry. "With both wit and tenderness, Sarah Sarai rigorously navigates the dialectics of knowledge and not knowing, thinking and being, the fantastic and the quotidian, the spiritual and the earthy, in language that is by turns crisp and lush. These are heady, whip-smart, funny and moving poems in which time becomes fluid and vertical?high-rise pageant of art, ephemera, filigree and memory through which our physical and temporal bodies spark and fall much too quickly"?Lee Ann Roripaugh. LINK New Drama in Translation from Cadmus Editions PEDRO AND THE CAPTAIN Mario Benedetti $10.95 | paper | 108 pp. Cadmus Editions ISBN: 9780932274724 Drama. Latino/Latina Studies. Translated from the Spanish by Adrianne Aron. A gripping dialogue between a torturer and his victim, PEDRO AND THE CAPTAIN takes place in an interrogation room, where lives are deconstructed by the violent hand of the terrorist state. Torture, the awesome force that mediates the action, never appears directly on the scene; likewise, the repressive state is never named. Benedetti captures the essence of this dehumanizing practice without assigning it precise location or time, which speaks to the universality of the abomination, whether in Uruguay's La Libertad or the USA's Abu Ghraib. LINK New Poetry from Akashic Books THE RAVENOUS AUDIENCE Kate Durbin $15.95 | paper | 144 pp. Akashic Books ISBN: 9781933354880 Poetry. Kate Durbin's debut volume is not for the weak of gut. Cum, blood, vomit, and other bodily juices slop off the page in a grotesque reanimation of history and art's female villains and s/heroes. Unlike other feminist revisionist texts, THE RAVENOUS AUDIENCE refuses to rescue the "misunderstood" bitches of our cultural past, instead viscerally imposing the scope of their bodily and existential horrors?including each woman's culpability. "Christianity or cuisine, cinema or sex manuals, Eros or Thanatos, Artaud or Marilyn Monroe? Marry or suture or eat all of them and you are close to Ravenous. A brutal tour de force"?Juan Felipe Herrera. LINK New in Paperback! Poetry from Copper Canyon Press THE SHADOW OF SIRIUS W.S. Merwin $16 | paper | 130 pp. Copper Canyon Press ISBN: 9781556593109 Poetry. The nuanced mysteries of light, darkness, presence, and memory are central themes in W.S. Merwin's new book of poems. "I have only what I remember," Merwin admits, and his memories are focused and profound-the distinct qualities of autumn light, a conversation with a boyhood teacher, well- cultivated loves, and "our long evenings and astonishment." In "Photographer," Merwin presents the scene where armloads of antique glass negatives are saved from a dumpcart by "someone who understood." In "Empty Lot," Merwin evokes a child lying in bed at night, listening to the muffled dynamite blasts of coal mining near his home, and we can't help but ask: How shall we mine our lives? W.S. Merwin, author of over fifty books, is America's foremost poet. His last two books were honored with major literary awards: MIGRATION won the National Book Award, and PRESENT COMPANY received the Bobbitt Prize from the Library of Congress. LINK New Poetry from BkMk Press DAYS LIKE THIS ARE NECESSARY: NEW AND SELECTED POEMS Walter Bargen $15.95 | paper | 222 pp. BkMk Press ISBN: 9781886157705 Poetry. DAYS LIKE THIS ARE NECESSARY includes new poems as well as highlights from the 13-book career of Walter Bargen, first poet laureate of Missouri. Kevin Prufer writes in his foreword to the book, "His work is technically sophisticated, rhythmically subtle, and emotionally complex, but?and here's the trick?it's also the kind of poetry that one might offer to someone who says he doesn't like poetry much, someone who says he doesn't `get' poetry, someone who prefers mysteries or history books or biographies.... In a perfect world, this book will go a long way toward bringing Walter Bargen's poetry to the much wider audience it deserves." LINK New Poetry from Marsh Hawk Press FACING IT AGAIN: NEW AND SELECTED POEMS Corinne Robins $15 | paper | 98 pp. Marsh Hawk Press ISBN: 9780984117703 Poetry. FACING IT AGAIN: NEW AND SELECTED POEMS by Corinne Robins does not shrink from naming her personal pains and triumphs, as well as the works of art that in her view reflect them, faced again as they are embodied in these deeply ruminative poems. This book is a testament to a long and committed life told here with painful honesty in marvelous lyric excursions. LINK New Memoir from Pennywhistle Press WE CAME TO SANTA FE Victor di Suvero, Ed. $29 | paper | 350 pp. Pennywhistle Press ISBN: 9780938631392 Literary Nonfiction. Memoir. WE CAME TO SANTA FE is an anthology of 73 different authors who come together to share their unique and individual story as to how it is that they were drawn to the city of Santa Fe, New Mexico. This collection of memoirs and stories describing the background, reason, trials, troubles and excitements that brought this group of outstanding individuals to make their homes in Santa Fe, New Mexico, and its surroundings, serves to explain the charm, attraction and way of life to be found in what has become known as "The City Different". Artist, doctors, poets, authors, sculptors, and activists all share their trips over the past fifty years to define a way of seeing the world in an unusual and exciting manner. LINK &c. Kudos to DEBTS AND OBLIGATIONS by Alicia Cohen from O Books and A LL-AMERICAN POEM by Matthew Dickman from American Poetry Review, 2009 Oregon Book Award Finalists. This year's judge for the Stafford/Hall Award for Poetry is Matthea Harvey. Winners in all genres will be announced at the Oregon Book Awards ceremony Monday, October 26, at 7:30 p.m. at the Gerding Theater at the Armory, and one can be there by buying tickets, starting at $17, here. SPD EVENT OCT. 17! click for details BLOG | FACEBOOK | TWITTER If you do not want to receive any more emails, click this link. To update your preferences and to unsubscribe, visit this link. Spread the word! Forward this message to a friend by clicking this link. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/png Size: 2408 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jforjames at aol.com Thu Oct 1 12:57:19 2009 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Thu, 01 Oct 2009 12:57:19 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poe Mania in Austin Message-ID: <8CC10CF5F44209F-5528-1F79F@webmail-m073.sysops.aol.com> http://www.hrc.utexas.edu/exhibitions/2009/poe/ "From Out That Shadow" features manuscripts, books, art and personal effects, many of them displayed for the first time, documenting Poe's career as a writer, his romantic relationships and mysterious death, the decline and rehabilitation of his literary reputation and his profound influence on mystery and detective fiction and other genres. "Poe is one of the most widely read American writers of the 19th century," said Richard Oram, co-curator of the exhibition and associate director and the Hobby Foundation Librarian at the Ransom Center. "His appeal is unique and seemingly indestructible, extending from young readers who enjoy being terrified by the gloomy, macabre tales of mystery and imagination, such as 'The Tell-Tale Heart,' to literary critics who appreciate his pioneering analysis in 'The Philosophy of Composition' of how poetry creates its effect on the reader." -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Thu Oct 1 17:21:07 2009 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Thu, 1 Oct 2009 23:21:07 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Massachusetts calling Message-ID: <4b65c2d70910011421sf5523d7n3071b883863bee72@mail.gmail.com> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Michael Ansara, MassPoetry.org Date: Thu, Oct 1, 2009 at 9:34 PM Subject: Just 15 days until the Festival To: anny.ballardini at gmail.com If you're having trouble viewing this email, you may see it online . [image: Forward this message to a friend] Dear Poet and Poetry Supporter, We are just 15 days from the state-wide opening events of the Massachusetts Poetry Festival. Many of our writing workshops on Saturdayare sold out; if you're interested, get your tickets now and tell your friends to do the same. The Poetry Fest Sessions in Cambridgeon Sunday evening has almost half of its 100 seats already reserved. The Saturday evening reading with Louise Gluck and Robert Pinskyfollowed by Ann Waldman and Afaa Michael Weaverwith 500 seats already has 267 seats reserved. We can make sure there are more seats available for a large event but only if we know in advance. So please sign up and get your friends to do the same. *Festival Schedule * Thurs (15th) Fri (16th) Sat (17th) Sun (18th) View all events In last week's email we talked about all of the events state-wide on Thursday night. Today we're going to talk about our exciting program on Friday in Lowell. It starts with workshops for more 200 high school students from all over the state. At 1:30 a select group of high school poets will read their workand compete for the prize of reading the next day at some of our larger readings. This reading of some of the best young poets in the state is open to the public; get your tickets today: http://highschoolpoets.eventbrite.com/ The same afternoon, college poets are taking over Lowell City Hall. As guests of the city, college poets will be read their work at 3:00, with undergraduates from UMass Lowell, UMass Boston, Tufts, Salem State, Fitchburg State, Holy Cross and WPI participating. This is open to the public. Get your tickets to the intercollegiate reading online now: http://intercollegiate.eventbrite.com/ Following the reading, there will be two writing workshops, one for undergraduate college poets and one for poets in Master of Fine Arts in Writing programs around the state: *College: Developing a writing community *Jill McDonough (Moderator), Fred Marchant, Jennifer Fleisher, Cassandra Cleghorn *Life after the MFA *Stephen Cramer (Moderator), Joan Houlihan, Jeffrey Levine, Joyce Peseroff These workshops are for undergraduate and MFA students only. At 6:00, the MFA poets will read for the public - also at City Hall, 375 Merrimack Street, Lowell - and everyone is welcome to attend. Get your tickets today: http://mfa.eventbrite.com/ *Friday Evening *The evening features a major Festival presentation in collaboration with the Urban Village Arts Seriesat 7:30 at Lowell High School Auditorium, 50 French Street. Headlining the event will be Michael Casey, Caleb Neelon, Capoeira Rosa Rubra/Mestre Calango, and poet Jessica Smith. Get your tickets today: http://uvas.eventbrite.com/ Lowell Poetry Network member Dave Robinson created the Urban Village Arts Series (UVAS) in downtown Lowell after witnessing poet Quincy Troupe's Artists on the Cutting Edge program at the Museum of Contemporary Art, La Jolla, in California. Troupe em-ceed each of his events (4 Thursdays in April for 11 years) and always presented a fiction writer, a musician, and a poet to end the evening. When Robinson moved back to his hometown of Lowell he joined the Lowell Poetry Network. In its first few seasons, UVAS has partnered with UMass Lowell, the Lowell Heritage Partnership, the Cultural Organization of Lowell to Brew'd Awakening Coffehaus, Bootstrap Productions, Lowell National Historical Park and the Lowell Cultural Council. For this year's Massachusetts Poetry Festival UVAS has called together poet Jessica Smith, graffiti artist/muralist Caleb Neelon, Mestre Calango of Capoeira Rosa Rubra and poet Michael Casey (Yale Younger Poet award winner) to deliver an eclectic and powerful set of performances. We are excited to announce that Christopher Lydon will be our esteemed em-cee! *What You Can Do * 1. Register to attend 2. Spread the Word [print this poster ] 3. Donate UVAS is a free event! UVAS is brought to you by the Lowell Poetry Network, Bootstrap Productions, Lowell Cultural Council, the Cultural Organization of Lowell, UMass Lowell Office of Community and Cultural Affairs, Mary Bacigalupo Fund, Lowell Heritage Partnership, Lowell: the Flowering City, the ghost of Renovation Journal and private donations. Special thanks to Brew'd Awakening Coffeehouse for catering this year's shows. Get your tickets today: http://uvas.eventbrite.com/ *Poets with New Books - All Afternoon Saturday * Finally, we would like to draw your attention to the unusual marathon sequential readingthat will start at 11:45 a.m. on Saturday in Lowell. 28 Massachusetts poets each of whom has published a new full length book of poetry will be reading from their new books, one after the other at Barnes & Noble Downtown UMass Lowell Bookstore, 151 Merrimack St. For a full line up of all the participating poets and their times to read - and to reserve a seat - please click here to get a ticket: http://sequential.eventbrite.com/ While they are reading, there will be a table at the Small Press Fair where we will be selling their books. So check out the amazing list of poets, pick your times to listen to them, and come by the Small Press Fair first to purchase their new books. Read more about the Small Press Fair here. And as always, please spread the word about the Festival to your friends. And click here to make a donation- we now have less than $2,000 left to raise to fully fund the Festival! Thank you for everything you do for poetry. *The Massachusetts Poetry Festival Organizing Committee* Michael Ansara Charles Coe Suzz Cromwell Derek Fenner Ryan Gallagher Chloe Garcia-Roberts Jacquelyn Malone Paul Marion Nicco Mele LZ Nunn Dave Robinson Walter Wright PS: Every dollar counts -- please donate today! Massachusetts Poetry Festival http://masspoetry.org/ Office of Cultural Affairs & Special Events 375 Merrimack Street, Lowell, MA 01852 This email was sent to *anny.ballardini at gmail.com*. To ensure that you continue receiving our emails, please add us to your address book or safe list. *manage*your preferences | *opt out*using *TrueRemove*?. Got this as a forward? *Sign up*to receive our future emails. powered by [image: emma] -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Thu Oct 1 17:41:16 2009 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Thu, 1 Oct 2009 23:41:16 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Plumly named Md.'s poet laureate In-Reply-To: <8CC10B13E6E6B06-2B70-1C891@webmail-m050.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CC10B13E6E6B06-2B70-1C891@webmail-m050.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <4b65c2d70910011441u6d48f5a0h8808e76397fb43f5@mail.gmail.com> Great, especially for all the bad things that have been said against MFA's. On Thu, Oct 1, 2009 at 3:21 PM, wrote: > > http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/maryland/bal-stanley-plumly-poet-0929,0,1130546.story > UM professor Plumly named Md.'s poet laureate > The Associated Press > > 2:28 p.m. EDT, September 29, 2009 > > An award-winning University of Maryland professor who founded the school's > Master of Fine Arts program in creative writing has been named the state's > poet laureate. > > Stanley Plumly said he's flattered and looks forward to being part of the > best of Maryland's culture. Gov. Martin O'Malley announced the honor > Tuesday, saying Plumly is one of the nation's most critically acclaimed > poets > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Thu Oct 1 17:47:52 2009 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Thu, 1 Oct 2009 23:47:52 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poe Mania in Austin In-Reply-To: <8CC10CF5F44209F-5528-1F79F@webmail-m073.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CC10CF5F44209F-5528-1F79F@webmail-m073.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <4b65c2d70910011447s40b67cf8tf66c7a76d4771a72@mail.gmail.com> Yes, I agree. He is haunting, genial, can be intimate, and carries with him the taste of distant and yet so psychologically close/personal times, with him you are right on the borderline, and logically, on the right side but with the vertigo of the wrong side unfolding under your eyes and staged in your mind. His decadence is sublime, no wonder Baudelaire translated him. On Thu, Oct 1, 2009 at 6:57 PM, wrote: > http://www.hrc.utexas.edu/exhibitions/2009/poe/ > > "From Out That Shadow" features manuscripts, books, art and personal > effects, many of them displayed for the first time, documenting Poe's career > as a writer, his romantic relationships and mysterious death, the decline > and rehabilitation of his literary reputation and his profound influence on > mystery and detective fiction and other genres. > > "Poe is one of the most widely read American writers of the 19th century," > said Richard Oram, co-curator of the exhibition and associate director and > the Hobby Foundation Librarian at the Ransom Center. "His appeal is unique > and seemingly indestructible, extending from young readers who enjoy being > terrified by the gloomy, macabre tales of mystery and imagination, such as > 'The Tell-Tale Heart,' to literary critics who appreciate his pioneering > analysis in 'The Philosophy of Composition' of how poetry creates its effect > on the reader." > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Thu Oct 1 18:56:03 2009 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Thu, 01 Oct 2009 17:56:03 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Back From Vacation In-Reply-To: <4b65c2d70909301227p6a4905efjd5252e87a45daf33@mail.gmail.com> References: <4AC2A7FB.4070603@nut-n-but.net> <4b65c2d70909301227p6a4905efjd5252e87a45daf33@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4AC53383.3040202@nut-n-but.net> Thanks for noticing I'm back, Anny. I was in the hospital for two days. All went well, I guess, but I feel crummy, and have been ordered not to sit for long, which gives me a good excuse not to post much, if at all, for a while. Hate to miss the Big Fun with Polanski and Pound, though. --Bob From chris.kelly at nyu.edu Thu Oct 1 18:54:51 2009 From: chris.kelly at nyu.edu (Christopher Kelly) Date: Thu, 01 Oct 2009 18:54:51 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Plumly named Md.'s poet laureate In-Reply-To: <4b65c2d70910011441u6d48f5a0h8808e76397fb43f5@mail.gmail.com> References: <8CC10B13E6E6B06-2B70-1C891@webmail-m050.sysops.aol.com> <4b65c2d70910011441u6d48f5a0h8808e76397fb43f5@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <5a908bc11f2721.4ac4fafb@mail.nyu.edu> Congrats to Prof Plumly. Wonderful news. ----- Original Message ----- From: Anny Ballardini Date: Thursday, October 1, 2009 5:41 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Plumly named Md.'s poet laureate To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &, Views" > Great, especially for all the bad things that have been said against MFA's. > > > On Thu, Oct 1, 2009 at 3:21 PM, wrote: > > > > > http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/maryland/bal-stanley-plumly-poet-0929,0,1130546.story > > UM professor Plumly named Md.'s poet laureate > > The Associated Press > > > > 2:28 p.m. EDT, September 29, 2009 > > > > An award-winning University of Maryland professor who founded the school's > > Master of Fine Arts program in creative writing has been named the state's > > poet laureate. > > > > Stanley Plumly said he's flattered and looks forward to being part > of the > > best of Maryland's culture. Gov. Martin O'Malley announced the honor > > Tuesday, saying Plumly is one of the nation's most critically acclaimed > > poets > > > > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > > > -- > Anny Ballardini > http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ > http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome > http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 > http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html > I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing > star! > Friedrich Nietzsche > > ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique > vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? > Giovenale > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From david.weinstock at gmail.com Thu Oct 1 19:08:48 2009 From: david.weinstock at gmail.com (David Weinstock) Date: Thu, 1 Oct 2009 19:08:48 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Query--A scene in a 19th (?) Century Novel In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <437b1e3a0910011608y72c53c74tba6af28415b14b90@mail.gmail.com> Oh, never mind. It wasn't Jane Austen, it wasn't even in English literature. It happened in the first chapter of Swann's Way. I am feeling rather silly. Thanks to all who tried to help my search for lost brain cells. David W. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Rsgwynn1 at cs.com Thu Oct 1 19:17:22 2009 From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com (Rsgwynn1 at cs.com) Date: Thu, 1 Oct 2009 19:17:22 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Poe Mania in Austin Message-ID: In a message dated 10/1/2009 4:48:09 PM Central Daylight Time, anny.ballardini at gmail.com writes: > > Yes, I agree. He is haunting, genial, can be intimate, and carries with > him the taste of distant and yet so psychologically close/personal times, > with him you are right on the borderline, and logically, on the right side but > with the vertigo of the wrong side unfolding under your eyes and staged in > your mind. His decadence is sublime, no wonder Baudelaire translated him. Unlike Whitman, he did not write for the future; he wrote for the present. Or maybe for the past. Whitman is one of the few 19th century poets who senses that he wouldn't be fully comprehended in his own time, and when he wrote for the present, as in "O Captain! My Captain!," he was pretty bad. "Crossing Brooklyn Ferry" strikes me as one of the few poems of the past that seriously contemplates the future (and, yes, I've read "Locksley Hall"). Poe obviously thought about the future, but only in a Jules Verne sense. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jbalizsprince at googlemail.com Fri Oct 2 04:00:32 2009 From: jbalizsprince at googlemail.com (Judy Prince) Date: Fri, 2 Oct 2009 04:00:32 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Query--A scene in a 19th (?) Century Novel In-Reply-To: <437b1e3a0910011608y72c53c74tba6af28415b14b90@mail.gmail.com> References: <437b1e3a0910011608y72c53c74tba6af28415b14b90@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7db1d01b0910020100v21546d83k74b4d58a2ad5b545@mail.gmail.com> Nothing silly about it; it did sound like Austen. I'd love to hear/read a concise [yes, concise] comparison of his novel with her P & P. And I freely admit that I've never wanted to read past the first chapter of Swann's Way. Thanks, Judy 2009/10/1 David Weinstock > Oh, never mind. It wasn't Jane Austen, it wasn't even in English > literature. It happened in the first chapter of Swann's Way. I am feeling > rather silly. > > Thanks to all who tried to help my search for lost brain cells. > > David W. > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From obodooha at gmail.com Fri Oct 2 05:37:59 2009 From: obodooha at gmail.com (Obododimma Oha) Date: Fri, 2 Oct 2009 02:37:59 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Sailing these thoughts to the next UniVerse Message-ID: *Sailing these thoughts to the next UniVerse* *i?m octobering on, hoping to locate the boundary between time & being* *i?m mooning around an elusive plan of a planet* *i?m righting a folding sail that complains about a nuclear amnesia* *i?m mooning this fifth element, timing this timeless thought* *that will soon explode* --- *Obododimma Oha* -- Obododimma Oha http://udude.wordpress.com/ Dept. of English University of Ibadan Nigeria & Fellow, Centre for Peace & Conflict Studies University of Ibadan Phone: +234 803 333 1330; +234 805 350 6604; +234 808 264 8060. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Fri Oct 2 08:42:12 2009 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Fri, 2 Oct 2009 14:42:12 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] from the Almanac Message-ID: <4b65c2d70910020542u381308aag3228da431e487064@mail.gmail.com> I carry your heart with me by E. E. Cummings i carry your heart with me(i carry it in my heart)i am never without it(anywhere i go you go, my dear;and whatever is done by only me is your doing,my darling) i fear no fate(for you are my fate,my sweet)i want no world(for beautiful you are my world,my true) and it's you are whatever a moon has always meant and whatever a sun will always sing is you here is the deepest secret nobody knows (here is the root of the root and the bud of the bud and the sky of the sky of a tree called life;which grows higher than soul can hope or mind can hide) and this is the wonder that's keeping the stars apartv i carry your heart with me(i carry it in my heart) "'i carry your heart with me (i carry it in'" by e.e. cummings, from *Complete Poems 1904-62*. ? Liveright Publishing, 1994. Reprinted with permission. (buy now ) -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jeff.newberry at gmail.com Fri Oct 2 10:54:03 2009 From: jeff.newberry at gmail.com (Jeff Newberry) Date: Fri, 2 Oct 2009 10:54:03 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Blues/Jazz Anthology Call for Poems Message-ID: <731bb17a0910020754k2700dcacjfdb8529d47bc0d6b@mail.gmail.com> Some of you might be interested: CALL FOR POEMS 21st Century Howlers: A New Generation Jazz and Blues Anthology In the past ten to twenty years, a new generation of poets has emerged that seeks to expand and deepen the call-and-response tradition of Jazz and Blues music into the 21st century. Many of these poets may have not experienced a time when Blues or Jazz were the country?s common vernacular or were played with any heavy rotation on their local radio stations. As we quickly approach the centennial of Jazz and Blues, this anthology seeks to gather the voices of a new generation of Howlers: those poets whose work embodies or addresses the musical traditions of Jazz and Blues, and who began actively publishing no earlier than 1995. Editors are particularly interested in innovative approaches, reinterpretations, and engagements with the contemporary socio-historical moment and/or Jazz and Blues scene. Each poet featured in the anthology will provide a short commentary or anecdote on the ways Blues and/or Jazz have affected their writing. E-mails should contain a cover letter and submission as one attachment in Microsoft Word. Previously published work must be acknowledged in the cover letter. Submissions will be taken on an ongoing basis until March 15, 2010, e-mail <21stHowlers( at)gmail. com> (replace (at) with @). Co-editors of this anthology are Tyehimba Jess, Duriel E. Harris, and Patricia Smith. Best, Jeff Newberry -- You cannot tell people what to do, you can only tell them parables; and that is what art really is, particular stories of particular people and experience, from which each according to his own immediate and peculiar needs may draw his own conclusion. --W.H. Auden -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From GrahamD at ripon.edu Fri Oct 2 11:43:56 2009 From: GrahamD at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Fri, 2 Oct 2009 10:43:56 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Doggedly tooting Message-ID: <27427434-2801-4053-84FA-3ECDAF8BB6B4@ripon.edu> My poem "The Dogs in Dutch Paintings" just showed up as featured poem on a blog called "Poem of the Day." http://rinabeana.com/poemoftheday/index.php/category/david-graham/ I've always known in the abstract how popularity breeds more popularity, not always connected to quality; but in this case I've seen how the process works on a personal level. This particular poem was picked out of a journal ten years ago for Poetry Daily. Since then it's appeared in a number of anthologies and other publications, and, since the chapbook that eventually featured this poem had a minuscule circulation, I have realized how frequently anthologists must simply skim off material from previous anthologies rather than elsewhere. It's by far my most frequently reprinted poem. It's been translated into Spanish and published in Chile. It's in the first *Poetry Daily* anthology as well as Billy Collins's *180 More*. An artist has made a broadside of it. Etc. In fact, last year I was solicited for a new anthology, and sent off 5 or so dynamite new poems. The editor wrote back to accept "The Dogs in Dutch Paintings" instead of anything I had submitted. Not that I dislike this poem or anything. But in my own small way I now know what it must be like for someone like Van Morrison. He's got all this new stuff that he wants to sing, and people keep requesting "Brown-Eyed Girl" . . . . ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.me.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Opus40-01 at opus40.org Fri Oct 2 11:52:59 2009 From: Opus40-01 at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Fri, 02 Oct 2009 11:52:59 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Doggedly tooting In-Reply-To: <27427434-2801-4053-84FA-3ECDAF8BB6B4@ripon.edu> References: <27427434-2801-4053-84FA-3ECDAF8BB6B4@ripon.edu> Message-ID: <4AC621DB.3050204@opus40.org> The good news is, it's a really good poem. David Graham wrote: > My poem "The Dogs in Dutch Paintings" just showed up as featured poem > on a blog called "Poem of the Day." > > http://rinabeana.com/poemoftheday/index.php/category/david-graham/ > > I've always known in the abstract how popularity breeds more > popularity, not always connected to quality; but in this case I've > seen how the process works on a personal level. This particular poem > was picked out of a journal ten years ago for Poetry Daily. Since > then it's appeared in a number of anthologies and other publications, > and, since the chapbook that eventually featured this poem had a > minuscule circulation, I have realized how frequently anthologists > must simply skim off material from previous anthologies rather than > elsewhere. It's by far my most frequently reprinted poem. It's been > translated into Spanish and published in Chile. It's in the first > *Poetry Daily* anthology as well as Billy Collins's *180 More*. An > artist has made a broadside of it. Etc. > > In fact, last year I was solicited for a new anthology, and sent off 5 > or so dynamite new poems. The editor wrote back to accept "The Dogs > in Dutch Paintings" instead of anything I had submitted. > > Not that I dislike this poem or anything. But in my own small way I > now know what it must be like for someone like Van Morrison. He's got > all this new stuff that he wants to sing, and people keep requesting > "Brown-Eyed Girl" . . . . > > > > ======================================== > David Graham > grahamd at ripon.edu > > Home Page: > http://web.me.com/drjazz > > Poetry Library: > http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html > ========================================== > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Tad Richards Read my NY Writing Careers Examiner column today! http://www.examiner.com/x-2862-NY-Writing-Careers-Examiner http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Fri Oct 2 13:38:28 2009 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Fri, 2 Oct 2009 19:38:28 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Doggedly tooting In-Reply-To: <4AC621DB.3050204@opus40.org> References: <27427434-2801-4053-84FA-3ECDAF8BB6B4@ripon.edu> <4AC621DB.3050204@opus40.org> Message-ID: <4b65c2d70910021038w17849172jddb07a1bdfeacffd@mail.gmail.com> And I agree with the Old Mole, how couldn't I? On Fri, Oct 2, 2009 at 5:52 PM, TheOldMole wrote: > The good news is, it's a really good poem. > > David Graham wrote: > >> My poem "The Dogs in Dutch Paintings" just showed up as featured poem on a >> blog called "Poem of the Day." >> http://rinabeana.com/poemoftheday/index.php/category/david-graham/ >> >> I've always known in the abstract how popularity breeds more popularity, >> not always connected to quality; but in this case I've seen how the process >> works on a personal level. This particular poem was picked out of a journal >> ten years ago for Poetry Daily. Since then it's appeared in a number of >> anthologies and other publications, and, since the chapbook that eventually >> featured this poem had a minuscule circulation, I have realized how >> frequently anthologists must simply skim off material from previous >> anthologies rather than elsewhere. It's by far my most frequently reprinted >> poem. It's been translated into Spanish and published in Chile. It's in >> the first *Poetry Daily* anthology as well as Billy Collins's *180 More*. >> An artist has made a broadside of it. Etc. >> In fact, last year I was solicited for a new anthology, and sent off 5 or >> so dynamite new poems. The editor wrote back to accept "The Dogs in Dutch >> Paintings" instead of anything I had submitted. >> Not that I dislike this poem or anything. But in my own small way I now >> know what it must be like for someone like Van Morrison. He's got all this >> new stuff that he wants to sing, and people keep requesting "Brown-Eyed >> Girl" . . . . >> >> >> >> ======================================== >> David Graham >> grahamd at ripon.edu >> >> Home Page: >> http://web.me.com/drjazz >> >> Poetry Library: >> http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html >> ========================================== >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > > -- > Tad Richards > Read my NY Writing Careers Examiner column today! > http://www.examiner.com/x-2862-NY-Writing-Careers-Examiner > > http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ > http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Fri Oct 2 16:40:34 2009 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Fri, 02 Oct 2009 15:40:34 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] My Debts To New_poetry #1 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4AC66542.8000805@nut-n-but.net> While on vacation from New-Poetry, and using my blog to discuss all my old entries in order, I several times was reminded of good things I've gotten out of participating here (despite the BAD things!) One was this poem, which was entirely due to New-Poetry: *The Map of Apollo* Fully encragged by the map of the bear, Poem trekked slowly and painfully on foot for miles and miles up to, and more miles into, the realm "where dogs won't go, even in sleep." Abruptly, the bear in him wanted to know into somewhere less growled South, then, his dark trudge splashed, the surrounding odor of swamps and of something recently dead gradually fading word-dim, however continuingly vocal in the shallows of his lesser confusions. 6 June 2005 I still like it. New-Poetry was responsible for it because it was inspired by the following (most excellent) poem the Mole had posted here. *THE MAP OF THE BEAR* The only map is the map of the bear. Your best hope is to follow it closely, Closer than dogs. It's engraved with your spoor, You wake in the night to find it partly Charred by the dying fire. The only Map is the map of the bear. Follow It closer than dogs. Your best hope is To read the part engraved below The surface of the fire. Sleepless, You move by night. The only map is The map of the bear. Dogs know, That's why they follow with no hope The dying spoor. You're passing through Fire, you've passed through sleep, Now the only map is the map Of the bear. Now hope gives up Its secrets, now you follow where Dogs won't go, even in sleep. Above, the route's engraved on fire. * * * In my poem my intent was to show that the map of the bear was not the only map, but I think I failed: my map of Apollo seems to me a lot like the mole's map of the bear. No matter: it establishes a potent mood, it seems to me, and that's enough for any poem. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Fri Oct 2 16:20:18 2009 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Fri, 2 Oct 2009 22:20:18 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] My Debts To New_poetry #1 In-Reply-To: <4AC66542.8000805@nut-n-but.net> References: <4AC66542.8000805@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <4b65c2d70910021320m1f5b7a5i152ad185be2824af@mail.gmail.com> Yes, I remembered right, I have The Map of the Bear on the Corner: http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=Content&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=67 while the Map of Apollo tracks you in. On Fri, Oct 2, 2009 at 10:40 PM, Bob Grumman wrote: > While on vacation from New-Poetry, and using my blog to discuss all my old > entries in order, I several times was reminded of good things I've gotten > out of participating here (despite the BAD things!) One was this poem, > which was entirely due to New-Poetry: > > *The Map of Apollo* > > Fully encragged by the map of the bear, > Poem trekked slowly and painfully on foot > for miles and miles up to, and more miles into, > the realm "where dogs won't go, even in sleep." > Abruptly, the bear in him > wanted to know into somewhere > less growled > > South, then, his dark trudge splashed, > the surrounding odor of swamps > and of something recently dead > gradually fading word-dim, > however continuingly vocal in the shallows > of his lesser confusions. > > 6 June 2005 > > I still like it. New-Poetry was responsible for it because it was inspired > by the following (most excellent) poem the Mole had posted here. > > *THE MAP OF THE BEAR* > > The only map is the map of the bear. > Your best hope is to follow it closely, > Closer than dogs. It's engraved with your spoor, > You wake in the night to find it partly > Charred by the dying fire. The only > > Map is the map of the bear. Follow > It closer than dogs. Your best hope is > To read the part engraved below > The surface of the fire. Sleepless, > You move by night. The only map is > > The map of the bear. Dogs know, > That's why they follow with no hope > The dying spoor. You're passing through > Fire, you've passed through sleep, > Now the only map is the map > > Of the bear. Now hope gives up > Its secrets, now you follow where > Dogs won't go, even in sleep. > Above, the route's engraved on fire. > > * * * > > In my poem my intent was to show that the map of > the bear was not the only map, but I think I > failed: my map of Apollo seems to me a lot like > the mole's map of the bear. No matter: it establishes > a potent mood, it seems to me, and that's enough for > any poem. > > --Bob > > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From amyhappens at yahoo.com Fri Oct 2 18:32:53 2009 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king) Date: Fri, 2 Oct 2009 15:32:53 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Two Twomorrow -- NYC Message-ID: <700638.71230.qm@web83307.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> **************MANHATTAN The New York Public Library: Grand Central Branch ??135 East 46th Street NY, NYOctober 3rd @ 2 PM? Shanna Compton, Nada Gordon and Amy King Shanna Compton?is the author of For Girls (& Others) (Bloof Books, 2008), Down Spooky (Winnow, 2005), GAMERS (Soft Skull, 2004), and several chapbooks. Her poems and essays have appeared widely, including Best American Poetry 2005, McSweeney?s, the Poetry Foundation website, and the forthcoming Flarf anthology. Recent poems and an essay may be found in the tenth anniversary issue of LIT. She blogs desultorily at?shannacompton.com.Nada Gordon?s?books include V. Imp., Are Not Your Lowing Heifers Sleeker Than Night-Swollen Mushrooms, Swoon (with Gary Sullivan) and Foriegn Bodi, and Folly (2007). Visit her blog at?http://ululate.blogspot.comAmy King?is the author of I?m the Man Who Loves You and Antidotes for an Alibi, and forthcoming, I Want to Make You Safe and Slaves to Do These Things. She teaches English and Creative Writing at Nassau Community College and curates?the Brooklyn-based reading series, The Stain of Poetry. For more information, please visit?amyking.org *****************BROOKLYN EOAGH Issue 5 First Launch Event SATURDAY, OCT 3rd @8 PM Unnameable Books 600 Vanderbilt Ave, BrooklynThis event is co-sponsored by Chax Press8:00 Amy King 8:15 Jeremy James Thompson 8:30 Mark Lamoureux 8:45 Christie Ann Reynolds 9:00 Eric Lindley 9:15 Bill Marsh 9:30 Adeena Karasick 9:45 Matthew RotandoAmy King?is the author of I?m the Man Who Loves You and, and forthcoming, I Want to Make You Safe and Slaves to do These Things. She curates the Brooklyn-based reading series, The Stain of Poetry. For more information, please visit amyking.org.Jeremy James Thompson?is an instructor at New York?s Center for Book Arts, as well as curator of the reading series TEXTFORM. His work focuses on the process of collaboration, the reinvention of propaganda, and the defining of a practical avant-garde.Mark Lamoureux?lives in Astoria, NY. He is the author of Astronomy Organon (Blazevox) and 5 chapbooks. In 2006 he started Cy Gist Press, a micropress focusing on ekphrastic poetry.Christie Ann Reynolds?is a native New Yorker. She is the 2009 winner of The New School Chapbook Contest, chosen by Brenda Shaughnessy. Her first full-length manuscript will be published by Black Maze Books in the summer of 2010. She lives on the undetermined border of Queens and Brooklyn.Eric Lindley?loves language like a baby loves life; that is, fearfully, perversely, inscrutably, and currently working as a robot-builder, electro-folk musician, and psycholinguist.Bill Marsh?co-directs Factory School and edits the Heretical Texts series. He also curates NoDiff.com, a social networking site for his students at Queensborough Community College.Adeena Karasick?is a poet, media-artist and the award-winning author of six books of poetry and poetic theory, most recently Amuse Bouche: Tasty Treats for the Mouth (Talonbooks 2009).Matthew Rotando?s first book of poems, The Comeback?s Exoskeleton, (with a foreward by Tim Peterson) is available from Upset Press. He is a member of POG, a collective of artists and poets in Tucson, Arizona.http://amyking.wordpress.com/2009/10/01/two-this-saturday-october-3rd/ _______ NEW BOOK Slaves to Do These Things -- http://www.blazevox.org/bk-ak3.htm -- For a review copy, please email me directly. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From editor at eratiopostmodernpoetry.com Fri Oct 2 19:32:06 2009 From: editor at eratiopostmodernpoetry.com (=?iso-8859-1?Q?e=B7ratio?=) Date: Fri, 2 Oct 2009 19:32:06 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Edgar Allan Poe Celebrating 200 Years Message-ID: <54858.74.73.228.143.1254526326.squirrel@webmail1.web.com> But why will you say that I am mad? Wednesday, October 7, 2009 - Viewing of Poe's Body Thursday, October 8, 2009 - All Night Vigil at Poe's Grave Sunday, October 11, 2009 - Edgar Allan Poe's Funeral http://www.poebicentennial.com/ http://www.baltimoresun.com/entertainment/arts/bal-poe-1004,0,7814892.story The following people are confirmed as speakers at Poe?s Funeral: The Reverend Rufus Griswold (literary acquaintance) Sarah Helen Whitman (former fianc?e) George Lippard (devoted friend from Philadelphia) George Rex Graham (editor, Burton?s Gentlemen?s Magazine) Nathanial Parker Willis (loyal friend) Dr. John Moran (Poe physician at the time of his death) Sir Aurthur Conan Doyle (author; creator of Sherlock Holmes) Sir Alfred Hitchcock (legendary film director) J.T.L. Preston (childhood friend, Virginia Military College) H.P. Lovecraft (Author; "weird fiction" pulp writer) Charles Bauldelaire (French writer and Poe admirer) Narrator from The Tell Tale Heart John Astin (actor and educator) Gris Grimly (illustrator and filmmaker) Ellen Datlow (science fiction, horror and fantasy editor) Mark Redfield (actor and filmmaker) posted by gregory vincent st. thomasino http://thepostmodernromantic.blogspot.com/ From cervantes.james at gmail.com Fri Oct 2 20:07:00 2009 From: cervantes.james at gmail.com (James Cervantes) Date: Fri, 2 Oct 2009 17:07:00 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] "pobiz" Message-ID: <648208b60910021707w7bd7c2f2w6600cc6be408b625@mail.gmail.com> If there is "pobiz," and there is, what is the corresponding term for self-serving actions in fiction? "Ficbiz"? I'm doing research for an all-important post on Facebook. -- Jim ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning http://www.fieralingue.it/documenti/mr_bondo.pdf http://www.poetserv.org/jvc/home/index.html http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamescervantes/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Sat Oct 3 03:35:44 2009 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sat, 3 Oct 2009 09:35:44 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] "pobiz" In-Reply-To: <648208b60910021707w7bd7c2f2w6600cc6be408b625@mail.gmail.com> References: <648208b60910021707w7bd7c2f2w6600cc6be408b625@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4b65c2d70910030035v138bf7b2le30674632f466a02@mail.gmail.com> Those in fiction, as usual, are less intelligent than those in poetry... that is why they do not have a similar derogatory term. I think that if you wish to be understood you will have to talk of Fiction business, give the example of Pobiz, and finally coin Ficbiz, which is funny enough. Blessings to our good Poets, Anny On Sat, Oct 3, 2009 at 2:07 AM, James Cervantes wrote: > If there is "pobiz," and there is, what is the corresponding term for > self-serving actions in fiction? "Ficbiz"? I'm doing research for an > all-important post on Facebook. > > -- Jim > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org > http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning > http://www.fieralingue.it/documenti/mr_bondo.pdf > http://www.poetserv.org/jvc/home/index.html > http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamescervantes/ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From c.a.b.daly at gmail.com Sat Oct 3 11:56:34 2009 From: c.a.b.daly at gmail.com (Catherine Daly) Date: Sat, 3 Oct 2009 08:56:34 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] "pobiz" In-Reply-To: <4b65c2d70910030035v138bf7b2le30674632f466a02@mail.gmail.com> References: <648208b60910021707w7bd7c2f2w6600cc6be408b625@mail.gmail.com> <4b65c2d70910030035v138bf7b2le30674632f466a02@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: until relatively recently, it was still possible to treat the writing of fiction and/or non-fiction as one's main money-making endeavor, which has never been the case with poetry; now it is not womprose is as interested in business of fiction placement, publication, tours, sales, etc., so is she writes. prosebiz is better, since like pobiz, it recalls shobiz, what with the "o" and all -- All best, Catherine Daly c.a.b.daly at gmail.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From editor at eratiopostmodernpoetry.com Sat Oct 3 12:11:19 2009 From: editor at eratiopostmodernpoetry.com (=?iso-8859-1?Q?e=B7ratio?=) Date: Sat, 3 Oct 2009 12:11:19 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] EOAGH Issue 5 Launch Events Today & Tomorrow Marathon Poetry Reading Message-ID: <55144.74.73.226.31.1254586279.squirrel@webmail1.web.com> EOAGH Issue 5 Launch Events Today, Tomorrow and continuing on Tuesday Oct. 6 First Launch Event SATURDAY, OCT 3 @8 PM Unnameable Books 600 Vanderbilt Ave, Brooklyn This event is co-sponsored by Chax Press 8:00 Amy King 8:15 Jeremy James Thompson 8:30 Mark Lamoureux 8:45 Christie Ann Reynolds 9:00 Eric Lindley 9:15 Bill Marsh 9:30 Adeena Karasick 9:45 Matthew Rotando Amy King is the author of I'm the Man Who Loves You and, and forthcoming, I Want to Make You Safe and Slaves to do These Things. She curates the Brooklyn-based reading series, The Stain of Poetry. For more information, please visit amyking.org. Jeremy James Thompson is an instructor at New York's Center for Book Arts, as well as curator of the reading series TEXTFORM. His work focuses on the process of collaboration, the reinvention of propaganda, and the defining of a practical avant-garde. Mark Lamoureux lives in Astoria, NY. He is the author of Astronomy Organon (Blazevox) and 5 chapbooks. In 2006 he started Cy Gist Press, a micropress focusing on ekphrastic poetry. Christie Ann Reynolds is a native New Yorker. She is the 2009 winner of The New School Chapbook Contest, chosen by Brenda Shaughnessy. Her first full-length manuscript will be published by Black Maze Books in the summer of 2010. She lives on the undetermined border of Queens and Brooklyn. Eric Lindley loves language like a baby loves life; that is, fearfully, perversely, inscrutably, and currently working as a robot-builder, electro-folk musician, and psycholinguist. Bill Marsh co-directs Factory School and edits the Heretical Texts series. He also curates NoDiff.com, a social networking site for his students at Queensborough Community College. Adeena Karasick is a poet, media-artist and the award-winning author of six books of poetry and poetic theory, most recently Amuse Bouche: Tasty Treats for the Mouth (Talonbooks 2009). Matthew Rotando's first book of poems, The Comeback's Exoskeleton, (with a foreward by Tim Peterson) is available from Upset Press. He is a member of POG, a collective of artists and poets in Tucson, Arizona. Second Launch Event SUNDAY, OCT 4 @ NOON Unnameable Books 600 Vanderbilt Ave, Brooklyn This event co-sponsored by Chax Press 12:00 Glenn Mott 12:15 E.J. McAdams 12:30 Sara Wintz 12:45 Geoffrey Olsen 1:00 Karin Randolph 1:15 Filip Marinovich 1:30 Andrew Levy 1:45 Thomas Cook 2:00 Pattie McCarthy 2:15 Graeme Bezanson 2:30 Chelsea Hodson 2:45 break 3:00 Gregory Laynor 3:15 Kristi Maxwell 3:30 Laura Goldstein 3:45 Gregory Vincent St. Thomasino 4:00 Paige Taggart 4:15 James Belflower 4:30 Christopher Stackhouse 4:45 Leah Souffrant 5:00 Joel Lewis 5:15 Sean Casey 5:30 Kristen Gallagher 5:45 Lawrence Giffin 6:00 Michael Kelleher 6:15 Rajiv Mohabir 6:30 Nick Piombino 6:45 break 7:00 Michael Rerick 7:15 N. M. Hoffman 7:30 Paul Siegell 7:45 Robyn Art 8:00 Penelope Bloodworth 8:15 Rick Snyder 8:30 Amanda Deutch 8:45 Stephanie Gray 9:00 Will Edmiston Glenn Mott is the author of Analects on a Chinese Screen (Chax Press). His poems, essays, and translations have appeared in L'Anello, Poetiche, The Bund, The Missouri Review, and Fulcrum. He lives in Brooklyn, NY. E.J. McAdams is the author of the chapbook 4x4 (unarmed journal) and his haiku were recently included in artist Katie Holten's tree museum on the Grand Concourse in the Bronx. He lives in Harlem. Sara Wintz is a cohort of ::: the press gang ::: and lead singer of the pretty panicks press. Other writings can be found in Shampoo Poetry, Ecopoetics, and on Cepuetics with Kareen Estefan. She lives and learns in Brooklyn. Geoffrey Olsen lives in Greenpoint in Brooklyn in New York. He is the author of the chapbook End Notebook (Petrichord Press, Cambridge, MA). Karin Randolph is an ex-painter turned writer. Her book Either She Was was 2007 winner of the Marsh Hawk Poetry Prize. Filip Marinovich is a poet living in 21st Century New York City. He is the author of ZERO READERSHIP (Ugly Duckling Presse 2008) and of the forthcoming SANGUIS. Andrew Levy is the author of The Big Melt (Factory School), Ashoka (Zasterle Books), Paper Head Last Lyrics (Roof Books), and Curve (O Books). Cracking Up is forthcoming from Truck Press. He is editor, with Roberto Harrison, of the arts and poetry journal Crayon. Pattie McCarthy is the author of bk of (h)rs, Verso, & Table Alphabetical of Hard Wods, all from Apogee Press. She teaches at Temple University & lives in Philadelphia. Graeme Bezanson is a founding editor of coldfrontmag.com, an online journal of poetry reviews. His poems have appeared in, or are forthcoming from, Coconut, Verse, Spinning Jenny, and the Laurel Review. Chelsea Hodson grew up in Phoenix, studied journalism at the University of Arizona, and has been living in Brooklyn since June. She is currently teaching 4th grade at an after-school program in Jackson Heights. Her first publication will appear in the forthcoming issue of EOAGH. Gregory Laynor is an academic poet, currently at Temple University in Philadelphia. His reading of Gertrude Stein's The Making of Americans appears on UbuWeb. Kristi Maxwell is a doctoral candidate at the University of Cincinnati. She is the author of three books of poetry, Hush Sessions (Saturnalia 2009), Realm Sixty-Four (Ahsahta Press, 2008) and the chapbook Elsewhere & Wise (Dancing Girl Press, 2008). Laura Goldstein is a writer and text/sound artist living and working in Chicago. She currently teaches writing at Loyola University and the School of the Art Institute of Chicago. She's been published online in Otoliths, The Little Magazine, Great Works, MPRSND, Womb and PFS Post and in print in Dorothy's Elbow and XConnect. Gregory Vincent St. Thomasino?s poetry and prose have appeared in print in OCHO, Barrow Street, jubilat and in Xcp: Cross-Cultural Poetics and online at Onedit, EOAGH #4, at GAMMM and at Pindeldyboz. In 2009 he received the Distinguished Scholar Award from the Doctor of Arts in Leadership program at Franklin Pierce University in New Hampshire. In his spare time he edits the online poetry journal, E?ratio. Paige Taggart is a 2009 NYFA fellow and has an e-chapbook with Scantily Clad Press, Won't Be a Girl. Her poems have appeared in Alice Blue Review, La Petite Zine, Six Finch, Blazevox, Elimae, Caketrain, Eleven Eleven, Boog City. James Belflower is the author of Commuter, (Instance Press) and And Also a Fountain, (NeOpepper Press) a collaborative echap with Anne Heide and J. Michael Martinez. He curates PotLatchpoetry.org, a website dedicated to the gifting and exchange of poetry resources. Christopher Stackhouse is the author of Slip (Corollary Press), and co-author of Seismosis (1913 Press), a collaboration with writer/professor John Keene that features Stackhouse's drawings in dialogue with Keene's text. He holds an MFA in Writing/Interdisciplinary Studies from Bard College. Leah Souffrant is currently a co-chair of the Poetics Group at the CUNY Graduate Center, where she is pursuing a Ph.D. She holds an MFA from Bennington and was a 2007 NYFA fellow in poetry. Joel Lewis' latest book, Learning From New Jersey (Talisman House) is an all-NJ hejira that saves the reader tunnel and Turnpike tolls. He has edited the anthology of contemporary New Jersey poets, Bluestones and Salt Hay, along with the selected poems of Walter Lowenfels and the selected talks of Ted Berrigan. Sean Casey lives in Western Massachusetts, where he runs The Chuckwagon, a chapbook press. He has work forthcoming in the next issue of McSweeney's. Kristen Gallagher was born and raised in Philadelphia, then moved to Buffalo where she got a PhD from the Poetics Program, and now teaches at CUNY--LaGuardia Community College and lives in Woodside Queens. Lawrence Giffin is the author of the chapbook Get the fuck back into that burning plane, from Ugly Duckling Presse, and a member of the loose publishing collective Lil' Norton, where he edits the Physical Poets Home Library. Michael Kelleher is the author of two books of poems, Human Scale and To Be Sung, both from Blazevox. He lives in Buffalo, where he works as the artistic director of Just Buffalo Literary Center. Nick Piombino's latest book, Contradicta, with over 70 collages by artist Toni Simon hovers on the brink of publication by Green Integer Press. He was recently interviewed about the book by Poets and Writers http://www.pw.org/content/interview_poet_nick_piombino. Michael Rerick is the author of In Ways Impossible to Fold (Marsh Hawk Press) and X-Ray (Flying Guillotine Press). He is a doctoral candidate at the University of Cincinnati. Paul Siegell is the author of jambandbootleg (A-Head, 2009), Poemergency Room (Otoliths Books, 2008), and the e-chap JΔM> (ungovernable press, 2008). "Let's get into the song!" He is a staff editor at Painted Bride Quarterly, and has contributed to The American Poetry Review, 5AM, Coconut, Dusie, No Tell Motel and many other fine journals. Robyn Art is a native of Lincoln, Massachusetts. She is the author of The Stunt Double in Winter (Dusie) and co-author of a text-visual collaboration with the artist Robin Barcus, "Dear American Lovechild, Yours, the Beautiful Undead" (Dancing Girl Press). Rick Snyder is the author of Escape from Combray (Ugly Duckling, 2009), Flown Season (Portable Press at Yo-Yo Labs, 2004), and Forecast Memorial (Duration, 2002). He currently lives in Rochester, NY. Amanda Deutch is a poet living in Brooklyn. She works at the Coney Island History Project and is the Producer and Festival Director of Parachute: the Coney Island Performance Festival. Her most recent manuscript Amour/Mort/More is looking for a publisher. Stephanie Gray's first poetry collection, Heart Stoner Bingo, was published in 2007. She is also an experimental filmmaker whose super 8 films have screened at Millennium Film Workshop, Ann Arbor, Oberhausen, Viennale, Cinematexas, Antimatter, Chicago Underground and Madcat. Will Edmiston's poems have appeared in The Tiny, Mipo and Lungfull!. Most recently he did a book collaboration entitled "Greetings & Salutations" with a Parsons Communication Design class. EOAGH Issue 5 Launch Events Continues Tuesday, Oct. 6 @ 6PM Martin Segal Theater CUNY Graduate Center, 365, 5th Ave NYC. Readers will include Dorothea Lasky, Uche Nduka, Thomas Fink, Vincent Katz and Anne Tardos. EOAGH: A Journal of the Arts presents Issue 5 at: http://chax.org/eoagh A print edition of the journal will be available soon through Chax Press. For ordering or subscription information, contact editor Tim Peterson at EOAGH.Editor at gmail.com EOAGH: A Journal of the Arts is concerned with reading as a process, the productive chaos of investigative poetic work. These acts of attention explore the close listening inherent not just in writing but also in being written. Inspired by Whitman's assertion that "Reading is a gymnast's act," we see readings as embodied, interdisciplinary responses that engage with one's environment through ekphrasis, phenomenology, queering, and the pursuit of conceptual complexity/density. We seek poetry, prose, articles, and readings that address these concerns in contemporary avant-garde, experimental, and innovative writing. From junction at earthlink.net Sat Oct 3 12:44:52 2009 From: junction at earthlink.net (Mark Weiss) Date: Sat, 03 Oct 2009 12:44:52 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] "pobiz" In-Reply-To: References: <648208b60910021707w7bd7c2f2w6600cc6be408b625@mail.gmail.com> <4b65c2d70910030035v138bf7b2le30674632f466a02@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: And it's round, like the hole in the oboe. >prosebiz is better, since like pobiz, it recalls shobiz, what with >the "o" and all > >-- >All best, >Catherine Daly >c.a.b.daly at gmail.com >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry Announcing The Whole Island: Six Decades of Cuban Poetry (University of California Press). Forthcoming in November 2009 2009. To read more go to: http://go.ucpress.edu/WholeIsland "The Whole Island is a masterwork of cartography: a map of what is, for English-language readers, an almost unexplored territory, full of poets--at home and in the diaspora--whom we ought to know." -Eliot Weinberger "A definitive anthology guiding curious poets, literary scholars and teachers, and generations of readers out of the shadow of ignorant, imperialist 'lockdown' surrounding the breadth and power of Cuban poetry. [Weiss] provides a salient, comprehensive introduction covering the fascinating vidas of individual poets, literary movements, political exigencies, and the vicissitudes of an ongoing cultural struggle. But the imagination of the poetry rules. What emerges is an essential compendium to world literature. Presente!" -Anne Waldman From cervantes.james at gmail.com Sat Oct 3 13:07:03 2009 From: cervantes.james at gmail.com (James Cervantes) Date: Sat, 3 Oct 2009 10:07:03 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] "pobiz" In-Reply-To: References: <648208b60910021707w7bd7c2f2w6600cc6be408b625@mail.gmail.com> <4b65c2d70910030035v138bf7b2le30674632f466a02@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <648208b60910031007j3b318883pe6c65476cbe97862@mail.gmail.com> And dark! - Jim On Sat, Oct 3, 2009 at 9:44 AM, Mark Weiss wrote: > And it's round, like the hole in the oboe. > > > > prosebiz is better, since like pobiz, it recalls shobiz, what with the "o" >> and all >> >> -- >> All best, >> Catherine Daly >> c.a.b.daly at gmail.com >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> > > Announcing The Whole Island: Six Decades of Cuban Poetry (University of > California Press). > Forthcoming in November 2009 2009. > To read more go to: http://go.ucpress.edu/WholeIsland > > "The Whole Island is a masterwork of cartography: a map of what is, for > English-language readers, > an almost unexplored territory, full of poets--at home and in the > diaspora--whom we ought to know." > > -Eliot Weinberger > > "A definitive anthology guiding curious poets, literary scholars and > teachers, and generations of > readers out of the shadow of ignorant, imperialist 'lockdown' surrounding > the breadth and power of > Cuban poetry. [Weiss] provides a salient, comprehensive introduction > covering the fascinating vidas > of individual poets, literary movements, political exigencies, and the > vicissitudes of an ongoing cultural > struggle. But the imagination of the poetry rules. What emerges is an > essential compendium to > world literature. Presente!" > > -Anne Waldman > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cervantes.james at gmail.com Sat Oct 3 13:11:03 2009 From: cervantes.james at gmail.com (James Cervantes) Date: Sat, 3 Oct 2009 10:11:03 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] "pobiz" In-Reply-To: References: <648208b60910021707w7bd7c2f2w6600cc6be408b625@mail.gmail.com> <4b65c2d70910030035v138bf7b2le30674632f466a02@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <648208b60910031011g3b626cdev3c21cf3a4f4939e0@mail.gmail.com> And related, as a clarinet is to an oboe, when did writers start using "gig" for a reading engagement? It used to be the lingo of jazz musicians before other musicians adopted it, then certain comedians- Lenny Bruce, for example - and now writers. - Jim On Sat, Oct 3, 2009 at 8:56 AM, Catherine Daly wrote: > until relatively recently, it was still possible to treat the writing of > fiction and/or non-fiction as one's main money-making endeavor, which has > never been the case with poetry; now it is not > womprose is as interested in business of fiction placement, publication, > tours, sales, etc., so is she writes. > > prosebiz is better, since like pobiz, it recalls shobiz, what with the "o" > and all > > -- > All best, > Catherine Daly > c.a.b.daly at gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at gmail.com Sat Oct 3 13:32:09 2009 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Sat, 3 Oct 2009 12:32:09 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] "pobiz" In-Reply-To: References: <648208b60910021707w7bd7c2f2w6600cc6be408b625@mail.gmail.com> <4b65c2d70910030035v138bf7b2le30674632f466a02@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Just don't call it probiz. Hal "Once upon a time Baltimore was necessary." --Gertrude Stein Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org On Sat, Oct 3, 2009 at 10:56 AM, Catherine Daly wrote: > until relatively recently, it was still possible to treat the writing of > fiction and/or non-fiction as one's main money-making endeavor, which has > never been the case with poetry; now it is not > womprose is as interested in business of fiction placement, publication, > tours, sales, etc., so is she writes. > > prosebiz is better, since like pobiz, it recalls shobiz, what with the "o" > and all > > -- > All best, > Catherine Daly > c.a.b.daly at gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cervantes.james at gmail.com Sat Oct 3 14:09:28 2009 From: cervantes.james at gmail.com (James Cervantes) Date: Sat, 3 Oct 2009 11:09:28 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] PBO: Gabriel Gudding Message-ID: <648208b60910031109w20e46e1dm4baef6ea481e8b96@mail.gmail.com> After Yeats When I am old and using Revlon hair dye and am sucking up my pharmacopoeia, and can drink but Sanka ? when I don't have too many friends anymore and the bathroom is a place of loneliness ? Yes, when I am old and Revloned and hypnogogic and nodding at the wheel, take down this book and read of one who phoned you less and less, but who dug you and remembered your elegant hand and somewhat geeky look. -Gabriel Gudding, _A Defense of Poetry_, University of Pittsburgh Press, 2002 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Sat Oct 3 14:16:19 2009 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sat, 3 Oct 2009 20:16:19 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] PBO: Gabriel Gudding In-Reply-To: <648208b60910031109w20e46e1dm4baef6ea481e8b96@mail.gmail.com> References: <648208b60910031109w20e46e1dm4baef6ea481e8b96@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4b65c2d70910031116ib9711ddy49398a21f5e3ce1d@mail.gmail.com> It's a lovely poem. On Sat, Oct 3, 2009 at 8:09 PM, James Cervantes wrote: > After Yeats > > > > When I am old and using Revlon hair dye > > and am sucking up my pharmacopoeia, > > and can drink but Sanka ? > > when I don't have too many friends anymore > > and the bathroom is a place of loneliness ? > > > Yes, when I am old and Revloned and hypnogogic > > and nodding at the wheel, > > take down this book > > and read of one who phoned you less and less, > > but who dug you and remembered > > your elegant hand > > and somewhat geeky look. > > > > -Gabriel Gudding, _A Defense of Poetry_, University of Pittsburgh Press, > 2002 > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Rsgwynn1 at cs.com Sat Oct 3 17:29:57 2009 From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com (Rsgwynn1 at cs.com) Date: Sat, 3 Oct 2009 17:29:57 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: FW: deaf student and scansion Message-ID: Does anybody have any advice on this? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: Kevin Meaux Subject: FW: deaf student and scansion Date: Sat, 3 Oct 2009 16:08:53 -0500 Size: 5199 URL: From junction at earthlink.net Sat Oct 3 23:24:45 2009 From: junction at earthlink.net (Mark Weiss) Date: Sat, 03 Oct 2009 23:24:45 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: FW: deaf student and scansion In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: It would be helpful to know what kind of impairment. But assuming the student can speak she should be capable of discriminating length of syllable and should be able to scan qualitatively. Mark At 05:29 PM 10/3/2009, you wrote: >Does anybody have any advice on this? > >Return-Path: >Received: from rly-me07.mx.aol.com (rly-me07.mail.aol.com [172.20.83.41]) by > air-me08.mail.aol.com (v125.7) with ESMTP id > MAILINME082-9cb4ac7bd65244; Sat, 03 Oct 2009 17:09:01 -0400 >Received: from col0-omc4-s19.col0.hotmail.com (col0-omc4-s19.col0.hotmail.com > [65.55.34.221]) by rly-me07.mx.aol.com (v125.7) with ESMTP id > MAILRELAYINME077-9cb4ac7bd65244; Sat, 03 Oct 2009 17:08:53 -0400 >Received: from COL110-W49 ([65.55.34.201]) by col0-omc4-s19.col0.hotmail.com > with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); > Sat, 3 Oct 2009 14:08:53 -0700 >Message-ID: >Content-Type: multipart/alternative; > boundary="_ee912a59-6e73-4cc5-a1ec-da0ee4cf134b_" >X-Originating-IP: [140.158.54.132] >From: Kevin Meaux >To: >Subject: FW: deaf student and scansion >Date: Sat, 3 Oct 2009 16:08:53 -0500 >Importance: Normal >MIME-Version: 1.0 >X-OriginalArrivalTime: 03 Oct 2009 21:08:53.0633 (UTC) > FILETIME=[B66EF710:01CA446D] >X-AOL-IP: 65.55.34.221 >X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) > >Sam, > >Below is a letter that I sent to Callie Trahan. Have you ever >encountered this problem with a student? If so, what on earth did >you do about it? If not, no problem. I'm sure I can figure something out. > >Hope you're having a good weekend, >Kevin > > >---------- >From: kwm1977 at hotmail.com >To: callie.trahan at lamar.edu >Subject: >Date: Sat, 3 Oct 2009 15:44:35 -0500 > >Callie, > >I have a problem with my student Amber Shorter. She is in my poetry >class and right now we are studying poetic meter. The students are >currently learning how to scan poetry according to the number of >syllables per line but also according to stressed and unstressed >syllables. That is the problem, one that I should have seen coming >but did not. > >Amber cannot hear whether a word is stressed or >unstressed. Sometimes determining how the stresses fall in a >polysyllabic word is subtle, and even students who are not hearing >impaired have difficulty. Amber and I have been discussing ways that >she can learn to recognize stresses in a word, but--except for a few >very basic and flawed methods--we are both somewhat at a loss. > >Can you please offer a suggestion? Has there perhaps been an >article written on the subject? I've looked but haven't found any. > >Kevin Meaux > > >---------- >Hotmail: Trusted email with powerful SPAM protection. >Sign up now. > >---------- >Hotmail: Trusted email with Microsoft's powerful SPAM protection. >Sign up now. = >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry Announcing The Whole Island: Six Decades of Cuban Poetry (University of California Press). Forthcoming in November 2009 2009. To read more go to: http://go.ucpress.edu/WholeIsland "The Whole Island is a masterwork of cartography: a map of what is, for English-language readers, an almost unexplored territory, full of poets--at home and in the diaspora--whom we ought to know." -Eliot Weinberger "A definitive anthology guiding curious poets, literary scholars and teachers, and generations of readers out of the shadow of ignorant, imperialist 'lockdown' surrounding the breadth and power of Cuban poetry. [Weiss] provides a salient, comprehensive introduction covering the fascinating vidas of individual poets, literary movements, political exigencies, and the vicissitudes of an ongoing cultural struggle. But the imagination of the poetry rules. What emerges is an essential compendium to world literature. Presente!" -Anne Waldman From amyhappens at yahoo.com Mon Oct 5 12:16:11 2009 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king) Date: Mon, 5 Oct 2009 09:16:11 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] EOAGH #5 -- NOW ONLINE Message-ID: <283086.74069.qm@web83302.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> NOW ONLINEEOAGH: A Journal of the ArtsISSUE 5http://chax.org/eoagh/issuefive.html Contents: A PANEL, READING, & EXHIBITIONCHARLES OLSON: LANGUAGE AS PHYSICAL FACT Tenney NathansonCole SwensenSteve McCafferyBarbara HenningAnne Waldman A CHAPBOOKNothing is in Here, by Andrew Levy?READINGS/ARTICLES An Interview with Kevin Killian,?by Tony LeuzziTEXT FOR A CUL-DE-SAC,?by Wystan Curnow & Lawrence WeinerThe Functional Art of Bruce Nauman,?by Jessica HullmanA Topological Memoir?by Penelope BloodworthPoetic Ecologies in Bruxelles,?by Arpine Konyalian GrenierComposition as Exposition: A Case File,?by Bill MarshParadox: The Diminishing Increase of an Author,?by Tom ClarkField Poetics (a compleat history of de-individualizing practices), by Donald WellmanRaymond Roussel's (New) Africa,?by Louis BuryIterative View (of Brent Cunningham's Bird & Forest),?by Jesse SeldessDouble Review of Amy King,?by Matthew RotandoReview of Brenda Iijima's Rabbit Lesson, by?Geoffrey OlsenMetapoetic Speculation In/On Tom Beckett's "This Poem,"?by Thomas FinkReading Julian Poirer's Poetry, by?Filip MarinovichReview of Joseph Lease's Broken World, by?John Chavez?A POWERPOINT Pace of Dream,?by Eric Magrane & Wendy Burk?PLAYS Captain America,?by Laura Goldstein?The Obituary Show,?by CA Conrad?from Conversations Over Stolen Food,?by Andy Fitch & Jon Cotner?POETRY BY?Samuel Ace & Maureen?Seaton,?William Allegrezza,?Renee Angle,?Robyn Art,?Ari Banias,?Emily Beall,?Roberto Bedoya,?James Belflower,?Graeme Bezanson,?Carlos T. Blackburn,?Kate Broad,?Julian T. Brolaski,?Ethan Saul Bull,?Tetman Callis,?Sean Casey,?Stephen Chamberlain,?Cheryl Clark,?Kate Colby,?Thomas Cook,?Lisa Cooper,?Barbara Cully,?Mark Cunningham,?Shira Dentz,?Amanda Deutch,?Michelle Detorie,?Rachel Blau DuPlessis,?Moses Eder,?Will Edmiston,?Thomas Fink & Maya?Diablo Mason,?Greg Fuchs,?Kristen Gallagher,?Lawrence Giffin,?Giles Goodland,?Noah Eli Gordon,?Stephanie Gray,?Arpine Grenier,?Gabriel Gudding,?John Harkey,?Jeff Harrison,?Nathan Hauke,?Stefania Heim,?Derek Henderson,?Michael S. Hennessey,?Chelsea Hodson,?N. M. Hoffman,?Erika Howsare,?Paolo Javier,?Adeena Karasick,?Michael Kelleher,?Vincent Katz,?Amy King,?Paula Kolek,?Mark Lamoureux,?Dorothea Lasky,?Gregory Laynor,?Sueyeun Juliette Lee,?Ruth Lepson,?Joel Lewis,?Eric Lindley,?Hillary Lyon,?Kimberly Lyons,?Jami Macarty,?Majena Mafe,?Jill Magi,?CJ Martin,?Filip Marinovich,?Kristi Maxwell,?Rachel May & Joshua A.?Ware,?E.J.. McAdams,?Pattie McCarthy,?Chris McCreary,?Nicholas Messenger,?Benjamin Miller,?Carol Mirakove,?Rajiv Mohabir,?Emily Moore,?Glenn Mott,?Uche Nduka,?Gale Nelson,?Maurice Olivier,?Geoffrey Olsen,?Monica Peck,?Jennifer Petersen,?Lance Phillips,?Siri Phillips,?Nick Piombino,?Lanny Quarles,?Jessy Randall & Daniel?M. Shapiro,?Karin Randolph,?Karen Randall & Ross,?Priddle,?Michael Rerick,?Christie Ann Reynolds,?James Sanders,?Sam Schild,?Kyle Schlesinger,?Morgan Lucas Schuldt,?Paul Siegell,?Sandra Simonds,?Joel Sloman,?Rick Snyder,?Alan Sondheim,?Leah Souffrant,?Sparrow,?Christopher Stackhouse,?Elizabeth Kate Switaj,?Eileen Tabios,?Paige Taggart,?Anne Tardos,?Jeremy James Thompson,?Elizabeth Treadwell,?Matt Turner,?Mara Vahratian,?Nico Vassilakis,?Andi Werblin,?Sara Wintz, and?Deborah Wood. http://chax.org/eoagh/issuefive.html _______ NEW BOOK Slaves to Do These Things -- http://www.blazevox.org/bk-ak3.htm -- For a review copy, please email me directly. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From amyhappens at yahoo.com Mon Oct 5 12:41:23 2009 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king) Date: Mon, 5 Oct 2009 09:41:23 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] This is What a (Pro)Feminist [Man Poet] Looks Like Message-ID: <346714.26942.qm@web83303.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> In May 2009,?Danielle Pafunda?curated the first installment of?Delirious Hem's?This is What a Feminist [Poet] Looks Like.??This forum featured women discussing the relationship between their feminism & their poetry, and these contributions elicited thoughtful responses from women & men bloggers alike.??Mark Wallace?was one of those bloggers.? Together, we've curated?This is What a (Pro)Feminist [Man Poet] Looks Like.?? We hope you'll visit, read, comment, & enjoy! Monday October 5: ?Brian Teare, Christian Peet, & H.L. HixTuesday October 6: ?Hugh Behm-Steinberg, Kareem Estefan, & Kevin Simmonds?Wednesday October 7: Mark Wallace, Mike Hauser, & Nate Pritts?Thursday October 8: Philip Jenks, Tim Atkins, & Tony FrazerFriday October 9: Tony Trigilio, David Lau & Rodrigo Toscano ? Upcoming Forums: November: This is What a Feminist [Poet] Looks Like, 2 December: 2009 Advent Kalendar (check out?2008's!) Delirious Hem --?http://delirioushem.blogspot.com/2009_05_03_archive.html Delirious Lapel --?http://www.deliriouslapel.blogspot.com/ _______ NEW BOOK Slaves to Do These Things?-- http://www.blazevox.org/bk-ak3.htm -- For a review copy, please email me directly. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Mon Oct 5 13:38:00 2009 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon, 5 Oct 2009 19:38:00 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Questing Feast Message-ID: <4b65c2d70910051038v188cac07v99c884d15d9a08e0@mail.gmail.com> Welcome: http://www.thequestingfeast.com/index.html -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From amyhappens at yahoo.com Mon Oct 5 14:47:17 2009 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king) Date: Mon, 5 Oct 2009 11:47:17 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Questing Feast In-Reply-To: <4b65c2d70910051038v188cac07v99c884d15d9a08e0@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <597104.29920.qm@web83304.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Tasty!! --- On Mon, 10/5/09, Anny Ballardini?wrote: Welcome: http://www.thequestingfeast.com/index.html -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Mon Oct 5 20:24:35 2009 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Mon, 05 Oct 2009 20:24:35 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Sam Hamill Q&A Message-ID: <8CC1432844D6DFB-2D50-9758@webmail-m095.sysops.aol.com> http://www.kearneyhub.com/news/local/article_8d6d2e7a-b1c5-11de-8280-001cc4c03286.html PORT TOWNSEND, Wash. - Sam Hamill, poet, publisher, editor and translator, co-founded the Copper Canyon Press in 1972. The publishing house has produced more than 350 titles. In addition to editing and publishing, Hamill has produced 40 books, including "Almost Paradise," "Dumb Luck," "Gratitude," and translations of ancient Chinese and Japanese classics. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Mon Oct 5 21:19:48 2009 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Mon, 05 Oct 2009 21:19:48 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] metaconceptualism, I made that up, honest Message-ID: <8CC143A3B0FE1BB-2D50-A303@webmail-m095.sysops.aol.com> http://www.digitalemunction.com/2009/09/22/advertisement-kent-johnsonsday/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Tue Oct 6 14:17:34 2009 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Tue, 6 Oct 2009 20:17:34 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] On the Aesthetic Legacy of Ishmael Reed: Message-ID: <4b65c2d70910061117r21670d72p5ae42e7653458220@mail.gmail.com> *On the Aesthetic Legacy of Ishmael Reed: Contemporary Reassessments *Under this working title, Paul Tayyar (Golden West, California) and S?mi Ludwig (UHA Mulhouse, France) want to collect the views of young scholars and artists who represent yet another generation cherishing Ishmael Reed's work. After a furious start in the 1960s, Reed found a place in the contemporary African-American canon in the 1970s when some major criticism appeared on his writing. In the 1980s interest in him slackened--although we know that many young scholars in particular love his stories, his poems, and his essays. These are critics whose assessments we want to collect. The aim of our new book is to give voice to a group of scholars for whom Reed is no longer the young radical (Reed himself made fun of "fifty-years old sixties radicals" in* Japanese by Spring*), but a very special kind of grey-haired sage. We want to find out what Reed's oeuvre means to the young generation. What is the significance of his aesthetic legacy in 2010? Contributions on any aspect of his cultural relevance are welcome. In addition, we welcome creative work that celebrates or is inspired by Reed's career: paintings of characters or places from his novels, poetry written in the style of his verses, personal narratives about how Reed's work has influenced or inspired you. Please send copies of your prospective contributions to both editors Paul Tayyar <*paultayyar at earthlink.net*>, S?mi LUDWIG <*samuel.ludwig at uha.fr*> by the end of the year. -- ==================================== Prof. S?mi LUDWIG Universit? de Haute-Alsace LLSH: Lettres Langues et Sciences Humaines 10 rue des Fr?res Lumi?re 68093 Mulhouse Cedex FRANCE Email: private address: Grossmatt 18 CH-4616 Kappel SWITZERLAND Phone: ++41.62.216.6929 -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Tue Oct 6 14:22:28 2009 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Tue, 6 Oct 2009 20:22:28 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Wallace Stevens Message-ID: <4b65c2d70910061122h7f07a9adw1524150ee677e5bf@mail.gmail.com> Another Brief Memorial for Wallace Stevens edited by Jennifer Bosveld Pudding House Publications The largest literary small press in America ISBN 1-58998-810-8 a small collection, a chapbook anthology. We would prefer new work but we're open to a previously published poem in honor of, paying tribute to, something in the manner of. . . Wallace Stevens. the magic the flow obviously from a deep appreciation for Wallace Stevens Send by email only, one or two pages, 11 pt Times New Roman. Place any acknowledgment at the bottom of the poem. You must own the work/ copyright and say so. DEADLINE: October 31, 2009 to respond. Send to: Jennifer Bosveld, editor Pudding House Publications in the body of the email jen at puddinghouse.com -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Tue Oct 6 22:37:01 2009 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Tue, 06 Oct 2009 22:37:01 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Notice: Mudlark Message-ID: <8CC150E2F49A9FB-9830-12DE@webmail-m058.sysops.aol.com> Date:??? Mon, 5 Oct 2009 19:39:37 -0400 From:??? William Slaughter Subject: Notice: Mudlark New and On View: Mudlark Poster No. 83 (2009) Galicia 1986 | Nick Ripatrazone Nick Ripatrazone's work has recently appeared or is forthcoming in The Kenyon Review, The Saint Ann's Review, Sou'wester, The Los Angeles Review, and The New York Quarterly. He lives with his wife in northern New Jersey and is pursuing an MFA from Rutgers University. Spread the word. Far and wide, William Slaughter MUDLARK An Electronic Journal of Poetry & Poetics Never in and never out of print... E-mail: mudlark at unf.edu URL: http://www.unf.edu/mudlark -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Wed Oct 7 09:55:34 2009 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Wed, 07 Oct 2009 09:55:34 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Nobel Literature Prize could go to a poet for the first time since 1996 Message-ID: <8CC156CFA0EC556-39A4-A094@webmail-m050.sysops.aol.com> http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5g3UFf8QTKKaFC50zU9mtH08ttPYQ STOCKHOLM ? This year's Nobel Literature Prize could go to a poet for the first time since 1996, Swedish literary circles say as speculation mounts ahead of Thursday's announcement. A Spanish language author has not won the prize since 1990, so it could also be time for Peru's Mario Vargas Llosa, often mentioned as a possible Nobel winner, to finally clinch the prestigious distinction, according to other experts in Stockholm. -- What U.S. poet deserves the prize...any nominations? Finnegan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Wed Oct 7 10:32:03 2009 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Wed, 07 Oct 2009 10:32:03 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] litmag watch: literary bohemian Message-ID: <8CC1572127D16F8-30D8-37AA3@webmail-d041.sysops.aol.com> http://www.literarybohemian.com/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From adead_poet at hotmail.com Wed Oct 7 11:03:43 2009 From: adead_poet at hotmail.com (jason huff) Date: Wed, 7 Oct 2009 10:03:43 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Nobel Literature Prize could go to a poet for the first time since 1996 In-Reply-To: <8CC156CFA0EC556-39A4-A094@webmail-m050.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CC156CFA0EC556-39A4-A094@webmail-m050.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: I saw they mentioned Joyce Carol Oates. I?m a big fan of her prose, but I?ll be honest, I?ve read very little of her poetry. Does anyone want to comment on it? Of course I?d nominate Richard Wilbur. Outside of him, I cannot think of anyone. I love Kim Addonizio, but I don?t think she?s at the point yet of Nobel, but she still is my favorite living poet, and I?ve only read one of her novels, but I absolutely loved it. jason ________________________________ > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Date: Wed, 7 Oct 2009 09:55:34 -0400 > From: jforjames at aol.com > Subject: [New-Poetry] Nobel Literature Prize could go to a poet for the first time since 1996 > > > http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5g3UFf8QTKKaFC50zU9mtH08ttPYQ > > > > > > > > STOCKHOLM ? This year's Nobel Literature Prize could go to a poet for the first time since 1996, Swedish literary circles say as speculation mounts ahead of Thursday's announcement. > > > > > > > > A Spanish language author has not won the prize since 1990, so it could also be time for Peru's Mario Vargas Llosa, often mentioned as a possible Nobel winner, to finally clinch the prestigious distinction, according to other experts in Stockholm. > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > What U.S. poet deserves the prize...any nominations? > > > > Finnegan _________________________________________________________________ Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Get Windows Live Hotmail Free. http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/171222985/direct/01/ From AlMaginnes at aol.com Wed Oct 7 11:06:09 2009 From: AlMaginnes at aol.com (AlMaginnes at aol.com) Date: Wed, 7 Oct 2009 11:06:09 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Nobel Literature Prize could go to a poet for the first time... Message-ID: The only American I can think of as Nobel caliber would be Philip Roth. Of course it's been hard to take the Nobel seriously since they overlooked Robert Penn Warren. Al -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Opus40-01 at opus40.org Wed Oct 7 11:15:48 2009 From: Opus40-01 at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Wed, 07 Oct 2009 11:15:48 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Nobel Literature Prize could go to a poet for the first time since 1996 In-Reply-To: References: <8CC156CFA0EC556-39A4-A094@webmail-m050.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <4ACCB0A4.1090604@opus40.org> Lawrence Ferlinghetti, for his contribution to poetry more than his work as a poet. Bob Dylan. Basically, I agree with Al about Philip Roth. He deserves the Nobel, and he ought to get it. jason huff wrote: > > I saw they mentioned Joyce Carol Oates. I?m a big fan of her prose, but I?ll be honest, I?ve read very little of her poetry. Does anyone want to comment on it? > > Of course I?d nominate Richard Wilbur. Outside of him, I cannot think of anyone. I love Kim Addonizio, but I don?t think she?s at the point yet of Nobel, but she still is my favorite living poet, and I?ve only read one of her novels, but I absolutely loved it. > > jason > > > ________________________________ > >> To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> Date: Wed, 7 Oct 2009 09:55:34 -0400 >> From: jforjames at aol.com >> Subject: [New-Poetry] Nobel Literature Prize could go to a poet for the first time since 1996 >> >> >> http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5g3UFf8QTKKaFC50zU9mtH08ttPYQ >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> STOCKHOLM ? This year's Nobel Literature Prize could go to a poet for the first time since 1996, Swedish literary circles say as speculation mounts ahead of Thursday's announcement. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> A Spanish language author has not won the prize since 1990, so it could also be time for Peru's Mario Vargas Llosa, often mentioned as a possible Nobel winner, to finally clinch the prestigious distinction, according to other experts in Stockholm. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> What U.S. poet deserves the prize...any nominations? >> >> >> >> Finnegan >> > > _________________________________________________________________ > Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Get Windows Live Hotmail Free. > http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/171222985/direct/01/ > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Tad Richards Read my NY Writing Careers Examiner column today! http://www.examiner.com/x-2862-NY-Writing-Careers-Examiner http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ From Rsgwynn1 at cs.com Wed Oct 7 11:39:21 2009 From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com (Rsgwynn1 at cs.com) Date: Wed, 7 Oct 2009 11:39:21 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Nobel Literature Prize could go to a poet for the first time... Message-ID: In a message dated 10/7/2009 10:16:23 AM Central Daylight Time, Opus40-01 at opus40.org writes: > > Basically, I agree with Al about Philip Roth. He deserves the Nobel, and > he ought to get it. > Not if Claire Bloom has anything to say about it. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chris.kelly at nyu.edu Wed Oct 7 11:50:00 2009 From: chris.kelly at nyu.edu (Christopher Kelly) Date: Wed, 07 Oct 2009 11:50:00 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Nobel Literature Prize could go to a poet for the first time... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5e80f750235862.4acc8068@mail.nyu.edu> Roth would seem to be an ideal candidate. What about Ashbery? Both seem to have "moved literature in an ideal direction." Edna O'Brien also deserves some consideration. Perhaps, too, William Trevor. From jforjames at aol.com Wed Oct 7 11:51:01 2009 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Wed, 07 Oct 2009 11:51:01 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Nobel Literature Prize could go to a poet for the first time... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8CC157D1A5B0110-39A4-BF07@webmail-m050.sysops.aol.com> I would like to see W.S. Merwin get a Nobel. He's?rec'd all the U.S. prizes you can name.?He's been a?translator from several languages?(so he's got that international credibility), written prose, essays, and he's got the 'ecopoetics' aspect going for him, too, so he shows that worldwide concern which may appeal to the Nobel powers-that-be. Finnegan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From seamascain at gmail.com Wed Oct 7 12:57:45 2009 From: seamascain at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?S=E9amas_Cain?=) Date: Wed, 7 Oct 2009 11:57:45 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Dadadadadadadadadadada Message-ID: <6f1e9ee40910070957l3e43f454ga051b3564c88a7fd@mail.gmail.com> _______________ REDFOXPRESS at Dugort, on Achill Island, County Mayo, in the west of Ireland, publishes a collection of small artists' books dedicated to experimental, concrete & visual poetry or any work combining text & visual arts in the spirit of dada or fluxus. Examples include ... 1.) "ACHILL : THE ISLAND," poems by the Achill writer John F. Deane, with visual-art by artists from or residing on the Isle of Achill, including Antic-Ham, Rene Boell, Ronan Halpin, Mary Lavelle-Burke, Amanda MacMahon, John McHugh, Margo McNulty, Margaret Morrisson, Inge Schulz, Willem van Goor, & Francis van Maele. Size 15 x 21 cm., Rives BFK vellum 210 gr., 40 pages, in plexiglas slipcase, Inkjet & laser printed, 150 copies numbered & signed by the author. 2.) "Cadavre Burlesque," by Fritz Sauter, 40 pages, A6 format (10.5x15 cm. / 4 x 6"), 40 pages, hardcover, thread & quarter cloth binding, laser printing on ivory paper. Fritz Sauter is a writer of poetry & plays & radio plays; he is an artist in the post-post-dada tradition. Books can be ordered by e-mail from info at redfoxpress.com or via Paypal to phi at phi.lu REDFOXPRESS, Dugort, Achill Island County Mayo, Ireland Recent publications ... http://www.redfoxpress.com/new.html Visual Poetry collection ... http://www.redfoxpress.com/dada.html Dadadadadadadadadadada, S?amas Cain http://www.saorsainn.net http://alazanto.org/seamascain _______________ From Opus40-01 at opus40.org Wed Oct 7 13:16:30 2009 From: Opus40-01 at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Wed, 07 Oct 2009 13:16:30 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Nobel Literature Prize could go to a poet for the first time... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4ACCCCEE.7000900@opus40.org> It's probably just as well that ex-wives aren't on the committee. Rsgwynn1 at cs.com wrote: > In a message dated 10/7/2009 10:16:23 AM Central Daylight Time, > Opus40-01 at opus40.org writes: >> >> Basically, I agree with Al about Philip Roth. He deserves the Nobel, and >> he ought to get it. > > Not if Claire Bloom has anything to say about it. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -- Tad Richards Read my NY Writing Careers Examiner column today! http://www.examiner.com/x-2862-NY-Writing-Careers-Examiner http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Wed Oct 7 14:17:25 2009 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Wed, 7 Oct 2009 20:17:25 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Nobel Literature Prize could go to a poet for the first time since 1996 In-Reply-To: <4ACCB0A4.1090604@opus40.org> References: <8CC156CFA0EC556-39A4-A094@webmail-m050.sysops.aol.com> <4ACCB0A4.1090604@opus40.org> Message-ID: <4b65c2d70910071117s61b76e16ma58545dfb4b5cc73@mail.gmail.com> "They might want to give it to (Swedish poet) Tomas Transtroemer at last," says the manager of the Hedengrens bookstore in central Stockholm, Nicklas Bjoerkholm. >From the little that I read, just one book, he is great. Ferlinghetti for his contribution to poetry is fine, also. And many more... On Wed, Oct 7, 2009 at 5:15 PM, TheOldMole wrote: > Lawrence Ferlinghetti, for his contribution to poetry more than his work as > a poet. > > Bob Dylan. > > > > Basically, I agree with Al about Philip Roth. He deserves the Nobel, and he > ought to get it. > > > jason huff wrote: > >> >> I saw they mentioned Joyce Carol Oates. I?m a big fan of her prose, but >> I?ll be honest, I?ve read very little of her poetry. Does anyone want to >> comment on it? >> >> Of course I?d nominate Richard Wilbur. Outside of him, I cannot think of >> anyone. I love Kim Addonizio, but I don?t think she?s at the point yet of >> Nobel, but she still is my favorite living poet, and I?ve only read one of >> her novels, but I absolutely loved it. >> >> jason >> >> >> ________________________________ >> >> >>> To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>> Date: Wed, 7 Oct 2009 09:55:34 -0400 >>> From: jforjames at aol.com >>> Subject: [New-Poetry] Nobel Literature Prize could go to a poet for the >>> first time since 1996 >>> >>> >>> >>> http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5g3UFf8QTKKaFC50zU9mtH08ttPYQ >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> STOCKHOLM ? This year's Nobel Literature Prize could go to a poet for the >>> first time since 1996, Swedish literary circles say as speculation mounts >>> ahead of Thursday's announcement. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> A Spanish language author has not won the prize since 1990, so it could >>> also be time for Peru's Mario Vargas Llosa, often mentioned as a possible >>> Nobel winner, to finally clinch the prestigious distinction, according to >>> other experts in Stockholm. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> What U.S. poet deserves the prize...any nominations? >>> >>> >>> >>> Finnegan >>> >>> >> >> _________________________________________________________________ >> Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Get Windows Live Hotmail Free. >> http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/171222985/direct/01/ >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> >> > > -- > Tad Richards > Read my NY Writing Careers Examiner column today! > http://www.examiner.com/x-2862-NY-Writing-Careers-Examiner > > http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ > http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Wed Oct 7 14:18:45 2009 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Wed, 7 Oct 2009 20:18:45 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] some Italian affairs Message-ID: <4b65c2d70910071118w7fec72bal26a069797117b97d@mail.gmail.com> "Italy is in bad need of reforms to get the economy going and this makes those reforms even less likely because Berlusconi will be less inclined or able to focus on any reform effort," said Tito Boeri, an economist at Milan's Bocconi University. http://www.nytimes.com/reuters/2009/10/07/world/international-uk-italy-berlusconi-court.html?_r=1&hp -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Wed Oct 7 17:52:34 2009 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Wed, 07 Oct 2009 17:52:34 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] colloquy: conceptualism v. slowpo Message-ID: <8CC15AF9CC26FBB-2C4C-3C7@webmail-m027.sysops.aol.com> This piece goes back a few months, but I just ran across the link. http://jacketmagazine.com/38/iv-smith-goldsmith.shtml KG: What I learned in the art world is that anything goes. The further you can push something, the more it is rewarded: to shoot for anything less in the art world is career suicide. The art that is deemed the most valuable is rarely the most finely-crafted, the most expressive, or the most ?honest? works, but rather those which either attempt to do something that?s never been done before or those that synthesize older ideas into something new. Risk is rewarded. Those who follow tradition in a known, dogged, and obligatory manner are ignored. Unlike the poetry world, the mainstream of the art world since the dawn of modernism has been the avant-garde, the innovative, the experimental. The most cutting-edge work ? the work with the biggest audience and historical import ? has been the most challenging. One only needs to think of the biggest names of twentieth century art to confirm this: Duchamp, Pollack, Warhol, Koons, etc. all made outrageous propositions that became the mainstream history. I find this inspiring. These terms that I use quite often to situate my practice? ?impact,? ?audience,? career,? ?radically important,? ?historical,? ?experimental,? ?cutting-edge"?might have different meanings for you. DS: [...] My own experience as a reader relies on diverse trails, following voices, building trust, looking for peculiarities of experience and oppositional points-of-view. I am compelled by what is buried in the historical record, or by what has been eroded in the cultural forces of oppression. As a writer I look for points of intersection, too, between intimacies of feeling and the shape of public thought. The aesthetic or formal experience of this is secondary. New is news, but not necessarily ?new? in the way you said it a moment ago. But my enthusiasm for poetry could be blinding me to what you mean, and I welcome your perspective at this point in the conversation. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Wed Oct 7 20:55:19 2009 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Wed, 07 Oct 2009 20:55:19 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Paterson gets Forward Message-ID: <8CC15C9242FE236-21DC-E81B@webmail-m030.sysops.aol.com> http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2009/oct/07/don-paterson-forward-poetry Sixteen years after he debuted on the poetry scene with the acclaimed collection Nil Nil, Don Paterson has triumphed over one of the strongest poetry shortlists in years to take the Forward prize for best collection with Rain, a work which judges said showed the Scottish poet's "total mastery of his art". Paterson, 45, beat a line-up of acclaimed poets including Peter Porter, Sharon Olds and Glyn Maxwell to win the ?10,000 award for Rain, a continuation of his personal and philosophical exploration of the world around him. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Thu Oct 8 00:16:46 2009 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Wed, 07 Oct 2009 23:16:46 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] colloquy: conceptualism v. slowpo In-Reply-To: <8CC15AF9CC26FBB-2C4C-3C7@webmail-m027.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CC15AF9CC26FBB-2C4C-3C7@webmail-m027.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <4ACD67AE.30809@nut-n-but.net> After reading the names of American poets some of you think deserve a Nobel, I wondered--seriously--what any of them had done that made them better than several here at New-Poetry who have written poems I've read and liked, and respected, as much or more than anything any of the named poets have done. Four, for instance: Barry Spacks, David Graham, Tad Richards and Sam Gwynn. It seems to me it's all a matter of which three or four poets of an era get Big Prizes first. From that point on, (just about) all the prizes go the lucky three or four. Because prize-awarders have no idea what good poetry is, so go by previous certifiers. Okay, I suppose I'm prejudiced against Merwin, but for some reason no poem of his that I've read has made me later want to go back to it. The only one named that I have reread with pleasure is Wilbur. But . . . up there with Yeats and Eliot (and the other poets to whom Nobels would have gone to if Nobels were awarded on the basis of accomplishment)? Not n my view. I would add that it seems absurd to believe it possible for anyone to determine the #1 poet (or the ten or twenty top poets) of Right Now, too, considering how many poets there are, and how many /poetries/ there are. Better to use the money to help all poets--by providing DAH DUH DAH a list of the schools of contemporary poetry! but also by subsidizing publication of poetry AND poetry criticism, and running poetry discussion sites like this one, and organizing readings, etc. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From opus40-01 at opus40.org Thu Oct 8 09:42:05 2009 From: opus40-01 at opus40.org (opus40-01 at opus40.org) Date: Thu, 8 Oct 2009 09:42:05 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] (no subject) Message-ID: <380-22009104813425731@M2W038.mail2web.com> I'm with Bob. I think that Barry, David, Sam and I should share the Nobel. Bob Grumman wrote: > After reading the names of American poets some of you think deserve a Nobel, I wondered--seriously--what any of them had done that made them better than several here at New-Poetry who have written poems I've read and liked, and respected, as much or more than anything any of the named poets have done. Four, for instance: Barry Spacks, David Graham, Tad Richards and Sam Gwynn. It seems to me it's all a matter of which three or four poets of an era get Big Prizes first. From that point on, (just about) all the prizes go the lucky three or four. Because prize-awarders have no idea what good poetry is, so go by previous certifiers. Okay, I suppose I'm prejudiced against Merwin, but for some reason no poem of his that I've read has made me later want to go back to it. The only one named that I have reread with pleasure is Wilbur. But . . . up there with Yeats and Eliot (and the other poets to whom Nobels would have gone to if Nobels were awarded on the basis of accomplishment)? Not n my view. > > I would add that it seems absurd to believe it possible for anyone to determine the #1 poet (or the ten or twenty top poets) of Right Now, too, considering how many poets there are, and how many poetries there are. Better to use the money to help all poets--by providing DAH DUH DAH a list of the schools of contemporary poetry! but also by subsidizing publication of poetry AND poetry criticism, and running poetry discussion sites like this one, and organizing readings, etc. > > --Bob -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web LIVE ? Free email based on Microsoft? Exchange technology - http://link.mail2web.com/LIVE From jforjames at aol.com Thu Oct 8 10:03:54 2009 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Thu, 08 Oct 2009 10:03:54 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] (no subject) In-Reply-To: <380-22009104813425731@M2W038.mail2web.com> References: <380-22009104813425731@M2W038.mail2web.com> Message-ID: <8CC16374E56D500-17C-2915@webmail-m060.sysops.aol.com> You're known for your sense of 'Nobelesse oblige', Tad. -----Original Message----- From: opus40-01 at opus40.org To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Thu, Oct 8, 2009 9:42 am Subject: [New-Poetry] (no subject) I'm with Bob. I think that Barry, David, Sam and I should share the Nobel. Bob Grumman wrote: After reading the names of American poets some of you think deserve a obel, I wondered--seriously--what any of them had done that made them etter than several here at New-Poetry who have written poems I've read and iked, and respected, as much or more than anything any of the named poets ave done. Four, for instance: Barry Spacks, David Graham, Tad Richards nd Sam Gwynn. It seems to me it's all a matter of which three or four oets of an era get Big Prizes first. From that point on, (just about) all he prizes go the lucky three or four. Because prize-awarders have no dea what good poetry is, so go by previous certifiers. Okay, I suppose 'm prejudiced against Merwin, but for some reason no poem of his that I've ead has made me later want to go back to it. The only one named that I ave reread with pleasure is Wilbur. But . . . up there with Yeats and liot (and the other poets to whom Nobels would have gone to if Nobels were warded on the basis of accomplishment)? Not n my view. I would add that it seems absurd to believe it possible for anyone to etermine the #1 poet (or the ten or twenty top poets) of Right Now, too, onsidering how many poets there are, and how many poetries there are. etter to use the money to help all poets--by providing DAH DUH DAH a list f the schools of contemporary poetry! but also by subsidizing publication f poetry AND poetry criticism, and running poetry discussion sites like his one, and organizing readings, etc. --Bob ------------------------------------------------------------------- ail2web LIVE ? Free email based on Microsoft? Exchange technology - ttp://link.mail2web.com/LIVE _______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jeff.newberry at gmail.com Thu Oct 8 11:05:30 2009 From: jeff.newberry at gmail.com (Jeff Newberry) Date: Thu, 8 Oct 2009 11:05:30 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] (no subject) In-Reply-To: <8CC16374E56D500-17C-2915@webmail-m060.sysops.aol.com> References: <380-22009104813425731@M2W038.mail2web.com> <8CC16374E56D500-17C-2915@webmail-m060.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <731bb17a0910080805j7b195f6dva7ad30842b2227a1@mail.gmail.com> I'd be tickled if the committee gave the Nobel to an under-published unknown like yours truly. Jeff Newberry On Thu, Oct 8, 2009 at 10:03 AM, wrote: > You're known for your sense of 'Nobelesse oblige', Tad. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: opus40-01 at opus40.org > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Sent: Thu, Oct 8, 2009 9:42 am > Subject: [New-Poetry] (no subject) > > I'm with Bob. I think that Barry, David, Sam and I should share the Nobel. > > Bob Grumman wrote: > > After reading the names of American poets some of you think deserve a > Nobel, I wondered--seriously--what any of them had done that made them > better than several here at New-Poetry who have written poems I've read and > liked, and respected, as much or more than anything any of the named poets > have done. Four, for instance: Barry Spacks, David Graham, Tad Richards > and Sam Gwynn. It seems to me it's all a matter of which three or four > poets of an era get Big Prizes first. From that point on, (just about) all > the prizes go the lucky three or four. Because prize-awarders have no > idea what good poetry is, so go by previous certifiers. Okay, I suppose > I'm prejudiced against Merwin, but for some reason no poem of his that I've > read has made me later want to go back to it. The only one named that I > have reread with pleasure is Wilbur. But . . . up there with Yeats and > Eliot (and the other poets to whom Nobel > s would have gone to if Nobels were > awarded on the basis of accomplishment)? Not n my view. > > > > I would add that it seems absurd to believe it possible for anyone to > determine the #1 poet (or the ten or twenty top poets) of Right Now, too, > considering how many poets there are, and how many poetries there are. > Better to use the money to help all poets--by providing DAH DUH DAH a list > of the schools of contemporary poetry! but also by subsidizing publication > of poetry AND poetry criticism, and running poetry discussion sites like > this one, and organizing readings, etc. > > > > --Bob > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > mail2web LIVE ? Free email based on Microsoft? Exchange technology -http://link.mail2web.com/LIVE > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing listNew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.eduhttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- You cannot tell people what to do, you can only tell them parables; and that is what art really is, particular stories of particular people and experience, from which each according to his own immediate and peculiar needs may draw his own conclusion. --W.H. Auden -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From amyhappens at yahoo.com Thu Oct 8 11:12:10 2009 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king) Date: Thu, 8 Oct 2009 08:12:10 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Herta Mueller wins 2009 Nobel literature prize Message-ID: <5673.5626.qm@web83302.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> STOCKHOLM?Herta Mueller, a little-known Romanian-born author who was persecuted for her critical depictions of life behind the Iron Curtain, won the 2009 Nobel Prize in literature Thursday in an award seen as a nod to the 20th anniversary of communism's collapse. http://www.contracostatimes.com/nation-world/ci_13513339 _______ NEW BOOK Slaves to Do These Things -- http://www.blazevox.org/bk-ak3.htm -- For a review copy, please email me directly. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Thu Oct 8 11:13:36 2009 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Thu, 08 Oct 2009 11:13:36 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Lit Nobel goes to Herta Mueller Message-ID: <8CC16410AC5C314-17C-3AA6@webmail-m060.sysops.aol.com> http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/8297075.stm The Romanian born author is renowned for her books based on life under the harsh regime of the dictator Ceausescu. Mueller was born in 1953 in the German-speaking town of Nitzkydorf in Romania. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Thu Oct 8 12:52:46 2009 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Thu, 08 Oct 2009 11:52:46 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Herta Mueller wins 2009 Nobel literature prize In-Reply-To: <5673.5626.qm@web83302.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: <5673.5626.qm@web83302.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4ACE18DE.9020204@nut-n-but.net> Exactly the sort of person I figured would win the prize. --Bob G. From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Thu Oct 8 12:50:24 2009 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Thu, 8 Oct 2009 18:50:24 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Lit Nobel goes to Herta Mueller In-Reply-To: <8CC16410AC5C314-17C-3AA6@webmail-m060.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CC16410AC5C314-17C-3AA6@webmail-m060.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <4b65c2d70910080950w7748c9fbi991c5ff01d1a51d2@mail.gmail.com> Ah, I should put in my bio the hardship I have been suffering under my principal, believe it or not, ex-town councilor for the Italian Fascist party. Peace and good works to all, Anny On Thu, Oct 8, 2009 at 5:13 PM, wrote: > http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/8297075.stm > > The Romanian born author is renowned for her books based on life under the > harsh regime of the dictator Ceausescu. > > Mueller was born in 1953 in the German-speaking town of Nitzkydorf in > Romania. > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From barry.spacks at verizon.net Thu Oct 8 14:24:28 2009 From: barry.spacks at verizon.net (Barry Spacks) Date: Thu, 08 Oct 2009 11:24:28 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Barry's Nobel In-Reply-To: <200910081600.n98G05YK026120@wiz.cath.vt.edu> References: <200910081600.n98G05YK026120@wiz.cath.vt.edu> Message-ID: <143EE2DA-ABE7-488D-A31F-D00D9804DFA5@verizon.net> On Oct 8, 2009, at 9:00 AM, Tad wrote: > > I'm with Bob. I think that Barry, David, Sam and I should share the > Nobel. > wait -- I gotta SHARE?! B. From Rsgwynn1 at cs.com Thu Oct 8 14:43:10 2009 From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com (Rsgwynn1 at cs.com) Date: Thu, 8 Oct 2009 14:43:10 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Barry's Nobel Message-ID: In a message dated 10/8/2009 2:25:21 PM Eastern Daylight Time, barry.spacks at verizon.net writes: > > On Oct 8, 2009, at 9:00 AM, Tad wrote: > > > >I'm with Bob. I think that Barry, David, Sam and I should share the > >Nobel. > > > wait -- I gotta SHARE?! > > B. I got dibs on the "o." -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Thu Oct 8 14:49:56 2009 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Thu, 8 Oct 2009 20:49:56 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Herta Mueller wins 2009 Nobel literature prize In-Reply-To: <4ACE18DE.9020204@nut-n-but.net> References: <5673.5626.qm@web83302.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <4ACE18DE.9020204@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <4b65c2d70910081149l47534c2fo89bdf5a55990ee7@mail.gmail.com> you're a witchy witch On Thu, Oct 8, 2009 at 6:52 PM, Bob Grumman wrote: > Exactly the sort of person I figured would win the prize. > > --Bob G. > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Thu Oct 8 15:22:24 2009 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Thu, 08 Oct 2009 15:22:24 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Barry's Nobel In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8CC1663CC67E0D6-5FAC-1F592@webmail-d081.sysops.aol.com> Typo Set?in Stone ??? Isaac Bashevis Singer?s ??? headstone corrected ??? 5 years after his death: Noble ??? Laureate changed to ?Nobel? ? Down on his hells, he spite, stammerred, gravelled at their feet. How they had made him a whorse?s ass. Oh but he was biting his time, one day he?d make mice-meat out of his enemies. Invoke the holey hosts, the vigilant angles. ? Break the spines of the unread books, their guilt-leaf edges. The pages red in haste, nothing remembered, nothing but the inky strains. All the words strange and the people merely payers. Let bookcases be our ladders, we shall climb out of this pit of ignorance, our dark mines. Owl? Issac, tool ate, you can?t give back the ignobel loot, that blasted dynamight, world blown all to heel. God by, farwell. All monuments misspilt, stone trophies above the dread who would give back all the fine flame and honey for an hour in the shade of an ok tree, any tree, just for one day above the dearth, a word that death mated to the things of this good earth. -----Original Message----- From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Thu, Oct 8, 2009 2:43 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Re: Barry's Nobel In a message dated 10/8/2009 2:25:21 PM Eastern Daylight Time, barry.spacks at verizon.net writes: On Oct 8, 2009, at 9:00 AM, Tad wrote: > >I'm with Bob. I think that Barry, Dav id, Sam and I should share the? >Nobel. > ??? wait -- I gotta SHARE?! ?? B. I got dibs on the "o."? _______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Thu Oct 8 15:44:45 2009 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Thu, 08 Oct 2009 15:44:45 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Eliot #1 Message-ID: <8CC1666EC38985A-5054-1119A@webmail-d069.sysops.aol.com> http://in.reuters.com/article/entertainmentNews/idINIndia-43018020091008 Eliot voted Britain's favourite poet in BBC poll LONDON (Reuters Life!) - T.S. Eliot has been voted Britain's favourite poet in an online BBC poll to mark National Poetry Day, the broadcaster said on Thursday. The U.S.-born writer, who won the Nobel Prize in Literature in 1948, narrowly beat John Donne, who in turn was closely followed by Benjamin Zephaniah. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Thu Oct 8 16:01:42 2009 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Thu, 8 Oct 2009 22:01:42 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Barry's Nobel In-Reply-To: <8CC1663CC67E0D6-5FAC-1F592@webmail-d081.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CC1663CC67E0D6-5FAC-1F592@webmail-d081.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <4b65c2d70910081301k60d2c804id326ec60c3bc5d3b@mail.gmail.com> I l_o_v_e it! On Thu, Oct 8, 2009 at 9:22 PM, wrote: > Typo Set in Stone > > * Isaac Bashevis Singer?s > headstone corrected > 5 years after his death: Noble > Laureate changed to ?Nobel?* > > > Down on his hells, > he spite, stammerred, > gravelled at their feet. > How they had made him > a whorse?s ass. Oh but he was biting > his time, one day he?d make mice-meat > out of his enemies. Invoke > the holey hosts, the vigilant angles. > > Break the spines of the unread books, > their guilt-leaf edges. > The pages red in haste, > nothing remembered, > nothing but the inky strains. > All the words strange > and the people merely payers. > Let bookcases be our ladders, > we shall climb out of this pit > of ignorance, our dark mines. > Owl? Issac, tool ate, > you can?t give back the ignobel loot, > that blasted dynamight, world blown > all to heel. God by, farwell. > All monuments misspilt, > stone trophies above the dread > who would give back all the fine flame > and honey for an hour in the shade > of an ok tree, any tree, just for one day > above the dearth, a word that death > mated to the things of this good earth. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Sent: Thu, Oct 8, 2009 2:43 pm > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Re: Barry's Nobel > > In a message dated 10/8/2009 2:25:21 PM Eastern Daylight Time, > barry.spacks at verizon.net writes: > > > On Oct 8, 2009, at 9:00 AM, Tad wrote: > > > >I'm with Bob. I think that Barry, David, Sam and I should share the > >Nobel. > > > wait -- I gotta SHARE?! > > B. > > > > I got dibs on the "o." > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing listNew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.eduhttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Thu Oct 8 17:11:57 2009 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Thu, 08 Oct 2009 16:11:57 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Eliot #1 In-Reply-To: <8CC1666EC38985A-5054-1119A@webmail-d069.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CC1666EC38985A-5054-1119A@webmail-d069.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <4ACE559D.1020800@nut-n-but.net> jforjames at aol.com wrote: > http://in.reuters.com/article/entertainmentNews/idINIndia-43018020091008 > Eliot voted Britain's favourite poet in BBC poll > > LONDON (Reuters Life!) - T.S. Eliot has been voted Britain's favourite > poet in an online BBC poll to mark National Poetry Day, the > broadcaster said on Thursday. > > The U.S.-born writer, who won the Nobel Prize in Literature in 1948, > narrowly beat John Donne, who in turn was closely followed by Benjamin > Zephaniah. Who in the world was polled? And who in the world in Benjamin Zephaniah? --Bob From jforjames at aol.com Thu Oct 8 19:23:09 2009 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Thu, 08 Oct 2009 19:23:09 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Eliot #1 In-Reply-To: <4ACE559D.1020800@nut-n-but.net> References: <8CC1666EC38985A-5054-1119A@webmail-d069.sysops.aol.com> <4ACE559D.1020800@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <8CC16856E8D63DD-2034-13D00@webmail-m095.sysops.aol.com> The great & powerful?Google will tell you who?Benjamin Zephaniah is. BBC polled British?citizenry, I surmise.? -----Original Message----- From: Bob Grumman Sent: Thu, Oct 8, 2009 5:11 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Eliot #1 jforjames at aol.com wrote:? > http://in.reuters.com/article/entertainmentNews/idINIndia-43018020091008? > Eliot voted Britain's favourite poet in BBC poll? > > LONDON (Reuters Life!) - T.S. Eliot has been voted Britain's favourite > poet in an online BBC poll to mark National Poetry Day, the > broadcaster said on Thursday.? > > The U.S.-born writer, who won the Nobel Prize in Literature in 1948, > narrowly beat John Donne, who in turn was closely followed by Benjamin > Zephaniah.? Who in the world was polled? And who in the world in Benjamin Zephaniah?? ? --Bob? ? _______________________________________________? New-Poetry mailing list? New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu? http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Rsgwynn1 at cs.com Thu Oct 8 23:02:19 2009 From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com (Rsgwynn1 at cs.com) Date: Thu, 8 Oct 2009 23:02:19 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Eliot #1 Message-ID: In a message dated 10/8/2009 6:23:38 PM Central Daylight Time, jforjames at aol.com writes: > >>LONDON (Reuters Life!) - T.S. Eliot has been voted Britain's favourite > > poet in an online BBC poll to mark National Poetry Day, the >broadcaster > said on Thursday. > >>The U.S.-born writer, who won the Nobel Prize in Literature in 1948, > > narrowly beat John Donne, who in turn was closely followed by Benjamin > > Zephaniah. > Who in the world was polled? And who in the world in Benjamin Zephaniah? > He must be related to Rachel nee Rabinovich. What were they thinking? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jjeffreymail at yahoo.com Thu Oct 8 23:25:38 2009 From: jjeffreymail at yahoo.com (John Jeffrey) Date: Thu, 8 Oct 2009 20:25:38 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Eliot #1 In-Reply-To: <8CC16856E8D63DD-2034-13D00@webmail-m095.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CC1666EC38985A-5054-1119A@webmail-d069.sysops.aol.com> <4ACE559D.1020800@nut-n-but.net> <8CC16856E8D63DD-2034-13D00@webmail-m095.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <400143.92346.qm@web54107.mail.re2.yahoo.com> No one was actively polled; it was an online "poll," which are always full of shite. A better article about it is here at the BBC site. This was all part of the British "National Poetry Day 2009," which was today, Oct 8, by the way. Didn't you feel the disturbance in the Force? Also, interestingly, the BBC "just happened" to be airing two documentaries about winner T.S. Eliot, as well. Is that fish I smell? And where is Raleigh now to give them all the lie? ________________________________ From: "jforjames at aol.com" To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Thu, October 8, 2009 7:23:09 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Eliot #1 The great & powerful Google will tell you who Benjamin Zephaniah is. BBC polled British citizenry, I surmise. -----Original Message----- From: Bob Grumman Sent: Thu, Oct 8, 2009 5:11 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Eliot #1 jforjames at aol.com wrote: > http://in.reuters.com/article/entertainmentNews/idINIndia-43018020091008 > Eliot voted Britain's favourite poet in BBC poll > > LONDON (Reuters Life!) - T.S. Eliot has been voted Britain's favourite > poet in an online BBC poll to mark National Poetry Day, the > broadcaster said on Thursday. > > The U.S.-born writer, who won the Nobel Prize in Literature in 1948, > narrowly beat John Donne, who in turn was closely followed by Benjamin > Zephaniah. Who in the world was polled? And who in the world in Benjamin Zephaniah? --Bob _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Fri Oct 9 04:51:05 2009 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Fri, 9 Oct 2009 10:51:05 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Ekleksographia Wave Two: The Translation Special Message-ID: <4b65c2d70910090151k66cd52a4q30fcab482c812872@mail.gmail.com> Announcing Ekleksographia Wave Two: The Translation Special: http://ekleksographia.ahadadabooks.com/ or for the direct link: http://ekleksographia.ahadadabooks.com/ballardini/index.html I would like to thank *Jesse Glass* for having offered me the opportunity to call the following Poets and Artists interested in translation. A special thank you to *Jonathan Penton* who assembled the files online, and to *Berty Skuber* for having forwarded her beautiful watercolor that I selected for the front cover of the issue. My most felt acknowledgment goes to the Poets ? Contributors of the present issue, without their hard work *Ekleksographia Translation* would not have existed. And to the Readers, for developing ad infinitum what translated through their reading. If Poetry is the servant of Arts, Translation is the doormat of the Luxurious Villa of All Arts, this time celebrated in its refined Grandeur. I am dedicating this issue to *Karl Young* for his complete recovery. * * * * ? *William Allegreeza and Galo Ghigliotto translate three Chilean Poets* * *** ? *A poem by Dennis Barone and translation of Emanuel Carnevali* ** ? *Tom Beckett* * *** ? *Pam Brown translated by Jane Zemiro and Marie Gaulis* ** ? *Peter Ciccariello* * *** ? *Jon Corelis on Sappho and the Archpoet* ** ? *Alexander Dickow translates Max Jacob* * *** ? *Linh Dinh translates Marco Giovenale* ** ? *Joseph Duemer on the Ching Phu Ngam* * *** ? *James Finnegan* ** ? *Farideh Hassanzadeh (Mostafavi) and Christina Pacosz on Nima Yushij* * *** ? *Jukka-Pekka Kervinen* ** ? *Amy King* * *** ? *Bill Lavender translates Arthur Rimbaud* ** ? *Hank Lazer* * *** ? *Charles Martin* ** ? *Zeljko Mitic translated by Zeljko Mitic, Jr.* * *** ? *Richard Jeffrey Newman translates the Shahnameh* ** ? *Biljana D. Obradovi? translates Bratislav Milanovi?* * *** ? *Obododimma Oha tranlates Ogonna Agu* ** ? *Michael Rothenberg translated by Vincent Dussol* * *** ? *Larissa Shmailo translates Yuri Arabov* ** ? *Barry Schwabsky translates Paul ?luard* * *** ? *Elizabeth Smither* ** ? *Alan Sondheim* * *** ? *Yerra Sugarman translates Celia Dropkin* ** ? *Eileen Tabios translates her son* * *** ? *Peter Thompson translates Nabil Far?s* ** ? *Martin J. Walker translates Albert Ehrenstein* * *** ? *Joel Weishaus translates Po Chu-I* ** ? *Mark Weiss translates Max Jacob* * *** * * * ------------------------------ * * * *Reviews and Essays* * * - *Diether Haenicke reviews The Passionate Gardener by Rudolf Borchardt, translated by Henry Martin* ** - *Pierre Joris tries to translate Nabil Far?s' Bikini* ** - *Henry Martin discusses translating All the Errors by Giorgio Manganelli* ** - *Ellen Moody reviews translations of Jane Austen in French* ** - *Karl Young presents "Some Functions of Translation in 'The Ideal Anthology'"* ** - *Daniel Zimmerman reviews La Vita Nuova by Dante, translated by Emanuel di Pasquale* ** * ------------------------------ * ? *Anny Ballardini translates Arturo Onofri* ** * * *___________* -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From r_loden at sbcglobal.net Fri Oct 9 08:37:41 2009 From: r_loden at sbcglobal.net (Rachel Loden) Date: Fri, 9 Oct 2009 05:37:41 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Eliot #1 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: << He must be related to Rachel nee Rabinovich.? What were they thinking?>> Sam, I?m puzzled. Why do you refer to that (hideous and terrifying) line in this connection? I'm a confessed TSE fan, in case that isn't clear, but why this particular citation? Rachel, not nee Rabinovitch (as Eliot spells it) ________________________________________ From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Rsgwynn1 at cs.com Sent: Thursday, October 08, 2009 8:02 PM To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Eliot #1 In a message dated 10/8/2009 6:23:38 PM Central Daylight Time, jforjames at aol.com writes: >>LONDON (Reuters Life!) - T.S. Eliot has been voted Britain's favourite >poet in an online BBC poll to mark National Poetry Day, the >broadcaster said on Thursday. >>The U.S.-born writer, who won the Nobel Prize in Literature in 1948, >narrowly beat John Donne, who in turn was closely followed by Benjamin >Zephaniah. Who in the world was polled? And who in the world in Benjamin Zephaniah? He must be related to Rachel nee Rabinovich.? What were they thinking? From Rsgwynn1 at cs.com Fri Oct 9 11:10:09 2009 From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com (Rsgwynn1 at cs.com) Date: Fri, 9 Oct 2009 11:10:09 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Eliot #1 Message-ID: In a message dated 10/9/2009 7:38:08 AM Central Daylight Time, r_loden at sbcglobal.net writes: > > <> > > Sam, I?m puzzled. Why do you refer to that (hideous and terrifying) line > in > this connection? > > I'm a confessed TSE fan, in case that isn't clear, but why this particular > citation? > > Rachel, not nee Rabinovitch (as Eliot spells it) > Because "Sweeney among the Nightingales" was the poem printed with the original newspaper story (along with Kipling's "If"). I can't believe that Eliot's popularity rests on that crummy poem. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From elemenope_productions at hotmail.com Fri Oct 9 12:37:34 2009 From: elemenope_productions at hotmail.com (R Dillon) Date: Fri, 9 Oct 2009 16:37:34 +0000 Subject: [New-Poetry] Ignoble In-Reply-To: <200910090654.n996sCYL022978@wiz.cath.vt.edu> References: <200910090654.n996sCYL022978@wiz.cath.vt.edu> Message-ID: The only ZeroKing is the ZeroKing of ice cream. _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail: Trusted email with Microsoft?s powerful SPAM protection. http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/177141664/direct/01/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From r_loden at sbcglobal.net Fri Oct 9 12:41:46 2009 From: r_loden at sbcglobal.net (Rachel Loden) Date: Fri, 9 Oct 2009 09:41:46 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Eliot #1 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7F6FAC2E08814EFE9AAAD83D04E4AF73@GlassCastle> Ah. Which newspaper story was that? I read what I thought were the original stories (Guardian, BBC, Reuters, Telegraph) and didn't see the poems, only the ridiculous poll results. _____ From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Rsgwynn1 at cs.com Sent: Friday, October 09, 2009 8:10 AM To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Eliot #1 In a message dated 10/9/2009 7:38:08 AM Central Daylight Time, r_loden at sbcglobal.net writes: <> Sam, I'm puzzled. Why do you refer to that (hideous and terrifying) line in this connection? I'm a confessed TSE fan, in case that isn't clear, but why this particular citation? Rachel, not nee Rabinovitch (as Eliot spells it) Because "Sweeney among the Nightingales" was the poem printed with the original newspaper story (along with Kipling's "If"). I can't believe that Eliot's popularity rests on that crummy poem. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Rsgwynn1 at cs.com Fri Oct 9 12:59:37 2009 From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com (Rsgwynn1 at cs.com) Date: Fri, 9 Oct 2009 12:59:37 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Eliot #1 Message-ID: In a message dated 10/9/2009 11:43:55 AM Central Daylight Time, r_loden at sbcglobal.net writes: > Ah. Which newspaper story was that? I read what I thought were the > original stories (Guardian, BBC, Reuters, Telegraph) and didn?t see the poems, > only the ridiculous poll results. > > > I went back looking for it but couldn't find the one I first saw. Thought it was the original one in the Telegraph but got a blank page when I clicked on the link. Anyway, it gave me the impression that he was #1 because (not in spite of) "Sweeney" just as Kipling's "If--" was cited in that poll a few years ago as the UK's favorite poem. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From r_loden at sbcglobal.net Fri Oct 9 13:21:49 2009 From: r_loden at sbcglobal.net (Rachel Loden) Date: Fri, 9 Oct 2009 10:21:49 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Eliot #1 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <38B8DCA77AFD48EE97BFFF6058843904@GlassCastle> The Telegraph story is here: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/books/6272012/T.S-Eliot-named-favourite-p oet.html but still no poems. In any case, I agree with you that "Sweeney Among the Nightingales" is a strange poem to pick when advocating for Eliot. I can't call it "crummy," though, since it makes my blood run cold. Rachel Sam wrote: <> From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Fri Oct 9 15:16:10 2009 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Fri, 9 Oct 2009 21:16:10 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] President Obama was awarded the Nobel Peace Prize Message-ID: <4b65c2d70910091216g2d20ab89p4744b027c910142@mail.gmail.com> WASHINGTON ? President Obamawas awarded the Nobel Peace Prize on Friday for his ?extraordinary efforts to strengthen international diplomacy and cooperation between peoples,? a surprising honor that came less than nine months after he made United States history by becoming the country?s first African-American president. http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/10/world/10nobel.html?_r=1&hp -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From alexdickow9 at yahoo.com Fri Oct 9 15:56:02 2009 From: alexdickow9 at yahoo.com (Alexander Dickow) Date: Fri, 9 Oct 2009 12:56:02 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Raymond Federman In-Reply-To: <200910090654.n996sCYL022978@wiz.cath.vt.edu> References: <200910090654.n996sCYL022978@wiz.cath.vt.edu> Message-ID: <490962.32925.qm@web35505.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hello NewPo Friends, Just?coming out of lurking to tell everyone to go read some Raymond Federman, who just passed away on Tuesday.?I only knew him briefly, but long enough to find him a truly marvelous fellow, and to regret his passing. Go read?some good books. Amicalement, Alex ? www.alexdickow.net/blog/ les mots! ah quel d?sert ? la fin merveilleux. -- Henri Droguet -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Fri Oct 9 17:01:10 2009 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Fri, 09 Oct 2009 17:01:10 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Modernism and the littles Message-ID: <8CC173AC3275DD6-1A34-14E39@webmail-m028.sysops.aol.com> http://entertainment.timesonline.co.uk/tol/arts_and_entertainment/the_tls/article6864371.ece October 7, 2009 Modernism and the little magazines The literary journal is dead. Long live the literary journal The first function of a literary magazine is to introduce the work of new or little-known writers of talent.? There is an appealing modesty about this brisk declaration, even a kind of impersonality in subordinating editorial ego to the larger good; it seems likely to provoke a murmur of agreement, not least from new or little-known writers. But this is not, of course, the only way in which the function of such publications may be conceived. The editor of one of the many new literary periodicals established in the 1920s announced a no less definite sense of purpose in quite other terms: ?I shall make its aim the maintenance of critical standards and the concentration of intelligent critical opinion?. The goals expressed in these two quotations are not necessarily in conflict: editors might, it is true, maintain ?critical standards? in a practical way by identifying new literary talent. But the tendency is for the pursuit of these two purposes to result in periodicals of rather different types. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at gmail.com Fri Oct 9 17:50:40 2009 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Fri, 9 Oct 2009 16:50:40 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Modernism and the littles In-Reply-To: <8CC173AC3275DD6-1A34-14E39@webmail-m028.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CC173AC3275DD6-1A34-14E39@webmail-m028.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: Speaking of journals: Try this http://www.doaj.org/doaj?func=findJournals Hal "Once upon a time Baltimore was necessary." --Gertrude Stein Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org On Fri, Oct 9, 2009 at 4:01 PM, wrote: > > http://entertainment.timesonline.co.uk/tol/arts_and_entertainment/the_tls/article6864371.ece > October 7, 2009 > Modernism and the little magazines > The literary journal is dead. Long live the literary journal > > The first function of a literary magazine is to introduce the work of new > or little-known writers of talent.? There is an appealing modesty about this > brisk declaration, even a kind of impersonality in subordinating editorial > ego to the larger good; it seems likely to provoke a murmur of agreement, > not least from new or little-known writers. But this is not, of course, the > only way in which the function of such publications may be conceived. The > editor of one of the many new literary periodicals established in the 1920s > announced a no less definite sense of purpose in quite other terms: ?I shall > make its aim the maintenance of critical standards and the concentration of > intelligent critical opinion?. The goals expressed in these two quotations > are not necessarily in conflict: editors might, it is true, maintain > ?critical standards? in a practical way by identifying new literary talent. > But the tendency is for the pursuit of these two purposes to result in > periodicals of rather different types. > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Sun Oct 11 10:41:10 2009 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sun, 11 Oct 2009 16:41:10 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Narrative Migrant Spaces in Transatlantic Perspective - Call for papers Message-ID: <4b65c2d70910110741i21ca180ep25f1f4889e968231@mail.gmail.com> From: Michael Boyden [mailto:boydenmichael at gmail.com ] >Sent: Friday, October 02, 2009 6:30 PM Tales of Transit Narrative Migrant Spaces in Transatlantic Perspective 1830-1954 International conference Felix Archive Antwerp, Belgium 10-13 June, 2010 Conference Theme Tales of Transit will bring together insights and methodologies from migration and maritime history, translation studies and literary studies, and confront these with the rich but largely underexplored archive of transatlantic migrant narratives. In view of the opening of the Red Star Line Museum in Antwerp, Tales of Transit takes the city as its starting point to rethink transatlantic migration. We encourage contributions offering comparative perspectives on migrants traveling through well-known as well as lesser known ports in Europe, Africa and the Americas. The focus may be broadened to include mainland cities functioning as nodal points for migration flows or border crossing points on the frontier between states or regions. Overall, the stress lies on how such liminal spaces are narrated or visualized in testimonies or fiction: How vital are these sites for the migrant?s tale? Do such loci affirm or rather subvert the migrants? aspirations and hopes? Does the perspective shift in accordance with the linguistic medium or audience expectations and, if so, in what ways? Contributions may address any of the above questions in relation to the Atlantic migration flows that came into force roughly from the 1830s onwards, as a consequence of unsettled conditions in Europe and elsewhere. The year 1954, when the Ellis Island Immigration Station closed, was selected as an appropriate terminus ad quem, indicating the transition from steamers to planes as the dominant mode of transatlantic transportation. Suggested Thematic Areas ? Language and translation ? Migration as business ? Iconography of migration ? Archiving testimonies A more detailed description of the theme can be found on the conference website: http://www.talesoftransit.eu. Keynote Speakers ? Matthew Frye Jacobson (Yale University) ? Nancy K. Miller (City University of New York) ? Adam Walaszek (Jagiellonian University Krakow) ? Werner Sollors (Harvard University) TBC Organizing Institutions ? Ghent University Association Research Group on Literature in Translation ? Faculty of Translation Studies, Ghent University College ? Institute of Jewish Studies, University of Antwerp ? Leuven Research Group on Literary Relations and Postnational Identities ? Lessius University College Department of Applied Language Studies ? Roosevelt Study Center, Middelburg ? Red Star Line Museum, Antwerp Guidelines for Submission and Presentation Paper proposals in English of no more than 300 words can be submitted to michael.boyden at hogent or liselotte.vandenbussche at hogent.be by November 15, 2009. The academic committee will evaluate the abstracts and send out notifications of acceptance by the end of the calendar year. Each participant will be given 20 minutes to present, followed by 10 minutes of discussion. A selection of papers will be published in the conference proceedings. Congress Fees Participants are expected to pay a conference fee of 60 EUR (88 USD), which covers the academic program, congress documentation, coffee breaks, a reception in the Antwerp city hall and an exclusive guided tour of the Red Star Line Museum (http://www.redstarline.be). The student rate is 30 EUR or 44 USD. Accommodation and City The conference site (http://www.felixarchief.be) is located in a former warehouse in the heart of the historical harbor, on walking distance from the city?s main attractions. Special hotel rates for conference participants are being negotiated. Details will be posted on the conference website. -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Sun Oct 11 11:46:33 2009 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Sun, 11 Oct 2009 11:46:33 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] M.L. Liebler wins B&N Award In-Reply-To: <8CC17ED4D23426F-1AE0-1358C@webmail-d068.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CC17ED4D23426F-1AE0-1358C@webmail-d068.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <8CC18A124801E3F-2E94-7F@webmail-m047.sysops.aol.com> http://www.freep.com/article/20091010/FEATURES02/910100329/1027/Features02/What-s-going-on--Wayne-State-poet-wins-B&N-award Poet and Wayne State University professor M.L. Liebler, a prominent figure on the Detroit literary scene, has won a Barnes & Noble Writers for Writers Award for 2010. The award puts Liebler in stellar company. Past recipients include some of the best-known authors around, including Stephen King, Judy Blume, Mary Higgins Clark and Russell Banks. ? The honor is given to writers who've helped other writers and given back to the writing community, according to Elliot Figman, executive director of Poets & Writers, the nonprofit group that selects the winners. ? "M.L. has put in lots and lots of time over the years to support the writing community in Detroit," Figman says. "He's dedicated himself to writers within Detroit." -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Sun Oct 11 10:49:38 2009 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sun, 11 Oct 2009 16:49:38 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Call for papers: From Nature to Environment Message-ID: <4b65c2d70910110749g3298cabbnd9a70039ea30a265@mail.gmail.com> From: Michel GRANGER [mailto:michel.granger at univ-lyon2.fr ] >Sent: Friday, October 09, 2009 11:23 AM CALL FOR PAPERS ANNUAL CONFERENCE FRENCH ASSOCIATION FOR AMERICAN STUDIES UNIVERSIT? STENDHAL - GRENOBLE 3 27-29 MAY 2010 "From Nature to Environment" The principal objective of this conference will be to explore the transition form the concept of nature - historically constructed and fraught with ideological connotations - to that of environment in studies concerning the relations between the non-human and the human. In the field of contemporary American Studies, in particular, the latter concept has frequently replaced the former. What precisely are the implications of this transition, especially (though not exclusively) with regard to politics and ecology? It was in the course of the 19th century that the citizens of the United States became increasingly aware of their exceptional natural heritage, and this in turn helped to forge their sense of national identity and of superiority over Europe. The perception of nature, inspired by romanticism and pastoralism, evolved into an important element of American nationalism, which transformed it into a kind of religion. Not until the final decades of the century when the destructive exploitation of natural resources had become evident and the disappearance of the frontier had symbolized territorial conquest, did Americans feel that it was urgent to preserve a limited number of the vanishing natural sites as national parks so that future generations might get an impression of how the land would "originally" have appeared to the first settlers. In the 20th century, the preservation movement was reinforced by scientific reasoning which contributed to the protection of less spectacular but ecologically valuable sites. The creation of such reserves had an important effect on the general perception of nature, which could no longer be conceived as a homogeneous whole but instead has become subdivided into different zones serving a variety of purposes such as agriculture, mining, leisure activities, memory. The notion of environment by which nature has frequently been replaced suggests that which surrounds - our immediate surroundings, the world around us, or, in other words, the natural conditions of all organic life. Above all, this notion implies the human as a focal point, and - much more insistently than nature - the immediate, concrete, vital, sensory conditions of living in a given place. Thinking in terms of an environment means taking into account our way of living the land, of representing, managing and protecting these indispensable non-human surroundings. It means trying to understand the ties that bind us to a place we have come to think of as ours but also to measure the impact of forces beyond the sphere of the local, such as the quality of the air, of the water and of the climate. And it finally means analysing the indissoluble interpenetration of the human and the non-human in political, economic, scientific or aesthetic discourse. Yet the concept of the environment may also lead to confirming us in the idea of the primacy of the human over the non-human: is the anthropocentrism that is frequently implied by its use the only, let alone the most fertile way of reflecting on human/non-human relations? Is it possible to dispense entirely with the concept of nature in debates about environmental protection on the local, national and international level? The conference topic thus raises multiple and diverse issues, among which: - the inclusion of green areas and of vegetation in urban spaces (residential suburbs, gardens, parks, the walls and roofs of contemporary architecture); - the renewal of interest in the "commons", i.e. in publicly owned tracts of land that allow citizens to become connected to collectively managed natural spaces; - the conversion of abandoned farmland in the West into eco-tourism sites ("rewilding"); - the evolution in the field of nature preservation, from an act dedicated to memorializing the "original" wilderness to an act of ecological necessity; - the role (and, perhaps, the rights) of animals as affected by the transition from nature to environment; - the impact of environmental thinking on the frontiers separating the different zones into which natural space is subdivided; - the definition of an environment in a globalized world; - the specificity of the American tradition in the context of globalized environmental politics. Does it still makes sense to develop a national environmental politics? To what extent is the credibility of American environmentalism challenged by the critical international reaction to the record of the US in this domain? In the field of American literary culture, numerous writers in the wake of Walden, a text that devotes so many pages to the specific conditions of living in a particular natural space, have evoked their sense of being rooted in a given region whose fragile natural equilibrium haunts their imagination. It should be added that, almost by definition, writing conscious of the environment is not restricted solely to genres devoted to nature. - "nature writing"/"environmental imagination": are these terms interchangeable or does the choice of terms imply differing approaches? - "environmental texts": are the criteria proposed by Lawrence Buell to help identify such texts really useful and to the point? Do contemporary writers explicitly acknowledge the influence of concepts such as these? - How do writers working in a world where almost all natural spaces have been humanized and cultivated react to the celebration of "wild nature"? - What is the impact of scientific environmentalism on literary creation? - What is the influence of place and of local rootedness on the literary imagination? Discussion between participants of the French Association of American Studies conference at Besan?on (May 2009) has shown the need to emphasize that the topic proposed for the 2010 conference at Grenoble covers a wide spectrum of subjects that are of interest to scholars in the field of American studies. "From Nature to Environment" is not, as some may have feared, a topic exclusively focused on the role of wild or rural nature in the culture of the United States but, on the contrary, invites scholars to reflect on original themes such as the presence of the non-human in urban spaces (cities or suburbs) in a world where the local is increasingly dependent on the global and where the stakes of planning and preservation seem vital. Situated at the crossroads between politics and aesthetics, "From Nature to Environment" concerns the multiple and differing ways in which Americans conceive of the experience of inhabiting the United States. The conference will include plenary lectures by Professor Ursula K. Heise (Stanford University) and Professor Donald Worster (University of Kansas), as well as parallel paper sessions. A selection of papers presented at the conference will be published by Revue Fran?aise d'?tudes Am?ricaines in 2011(the French journal of American Studies). Twenty-minute paper proposals should be received no later than November 16th. Please e-mail abstracts (500 words, with a short biography) in RTF format to workshop chairs. Acceptance of proposals will be notified in the first week of December so as to allow the authors of selected submissions to apply for travel funding from their universities. Late abstracts will be considered as programme space permits. AFEA web site: http://www.afea.fr/ AFEA 2010 Conference "From Nature to Environment": http://www.afea.fr/spip.php?rubrique41 List of workshops/Liste des ateliers: http://www.afea.fr/spip.php?article281 Yves Figueiredo, Universit? Paris-Sorbonne, Michel Granger, Universit? Lyon 2, Tom Pughe, Universit? d'Orl?ans, * -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Sat Oct 10 15:06:51 2009 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sat, 10 Oct 2009 21:06:51 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] finalist for the Man Booker Prize Message-ID: <4b65c2d70910101206r726b93afn174165e77122bb64@mail.gmail.com> A. S. BYATTis an enthusiastic reader of Victorian novels, and in some ways she is a writer of them as well, or of updated versions. Her new novel, ?The Children?s Book,? which was a finalist for the Man Booker Prize awarded on Tuesday , is 675 pages long and has a Trollopean heft and sweep; it starts in 1895 and ends after World War I. http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/10/world/europe/10byatt.html?hp -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From david.weinstock at gmail.com Sun Oct 11 17:04:36 2009 From: david.weinstock at gmail.com (David Weinstock) Date: Sun, 11 Oct 2009 17:04:36 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: FW: deaf student and scansion In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <437b1e3a0910111404t3099a17et58a3e640b23a2e97@mail.gmail.com> I have forwarded the letter (names removed) to my brother, who teaches at Gallaudet University, for any light he can shed on the subject. >From my own experience I would ask if the student is fluent in English, or instead is a "native" ASL speaker, or somewhere in between. David W. From mandolin at mikesnider.org Sun Oct 11 17:55:26 2009 From: mandolin at mikesnider.org (Michael Snider) Date: Sun, 11 Oct 2009 17:55:26 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: FW: deaf student and scansion In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6768ac830910111455q18625233x3f0114e2b59e8786@mail.gmail.com> On Sat, Oct 3, 2009 at 11:24 PM, Mark Weiss wrote: > It would be helpful to know what kind of impairment. But assuming the > student can speak she should be capable of discriminating length of syllable > and should be able to scan qualitatively. > > Mark > Maybe, if this were a class on Robert Bridges - and it would at least leave everyone in the class equally impaired, since English has no audible quantities. Mike From halvard at gmail.com Sun Oct 11 18:15:04 2009 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Sun, 11 Oct 2009 17:15:04 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: FW: deaf student and scansion In-Reply-To: <6768ac830910111455q18625233x3f0114e2b59e8786@mail.gmail.com> References: <6768ac830910111455q18625233x3f0114e2b59e8786@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Ah, so that's why I can never hear it being spoken. Hal "Once upon a time Baltimore was necessary." --Gertrude Stein Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org On Sun, Oct 11, 2009 at 4:55 PM, Michael Snider wrote: > On Sat, Oct 3, 2009 at 11:24 PM, Mark Weiss > wrote: > > It would be helpful to know what kind of impairment. But assuming the > > student can speak she should be capable of discriminating length of > syllable > > and should be able to scan qualitatively. > > > > Mark > > > > Maybe, if this were a class on Robert Bridges - and it would at least > leave everyone in the class equally impaired, since English has no > audible quantities. > > Mike > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Rsgwynn1 at cs.com Sun Oct 11 18:21:26 2009 From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com (Rsgwynn1 at cs.com) Date: Sun, 11 Oct 2009 18:21:26 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: FW: deaf student and scansion Message-ID: In a message dated 10/11/2009 4:55:59 PM Central Daylight Time, mandolin at mikesnider.org writes: > > > On Sat, Oct 3, 2009 at 11:24 PM, Mark Weiss > wrote: > >It would be helpful to know what kind of impairment. But assuming the > >student can speak she should be capable of discriminating length of > syllable > >and should be able to scan qualitatively. > > > >Mark > > > > Maybe, if this were a class on Robert Bridges - and it would at least > leave everyone in the class equally impaired, since English has no > audible quantities. > > Mike I did speak with the student; her pronunciation is near perfect, and I think she has been deaf since birth. I've always wondered why English is said to have no audible quantities. Surely the o in on is longer than the one in off, just as the u in tune is longer than the one in rut. I assume that poets who have tried to write quantitative meters have taken this into consideration. I'll have to see what Bridges said on the matter. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Sat Oct 10 13:14:52 2009 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sat, 10 Oct 2009 19:14:52 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] from the Writer's almanac Message-ID: <4b65c2d70910101014s7f6ba7d7q6525c83ca465d5b@mail.gmail.com> It's the birthday of Italian composer *Giuseppe Verdi *, born on this day in the village of Le Roncole, near what is now Parma, Italy (1813). When Verdi was still a boy, he was hired as the official church organist, but he left when he was 12 to go study in a nearby town, and the people there were so supportive that they set up a fund to send him to the Conservatory in Milan. But when he went to audition, he was rejected, because the Conservatory said that he was "lacking in musical talent." So he got a private tutor, and he went on to become one of the most famous opera composers in history. His first opera, *Oberto, *premiered in 1839, when Verdi was just 26 years old. He wrote *Nabucco *(1848), *Rigoletto *(1851), and *Aida *(1871). He died at age 87, and one of his friends said that "he died magnificently." Although he requested a quiet, private funeral, more than 250,000 people turned out for his funeral procession. He said, "I adored and adore this art; and when I am alone and wrestling with my notes, then my heart pounds, tears stream from my eyes, and the emotions and pleasures are beyond description." ______________________ my favorite? His Requiem _____________________ -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mandolin at mikesnider.org Sun Oct 11 20:28:41 2009 From: mandolin at mikesnider.org (Michael Snider) Date: Sun, 11 Oct 2009 20:28:41 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: FW: deaf student and scansion In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6768ac830910111728q1231edceke6cc28e714facba1@mail.gmail.com> On Sun, Oct 11, 2009 at 6:21 PM, wrote: > In a message dated 10/11/2009 4:55:59 PM Central Daylight Time, > mandolin at mikesnider.org writes: > > > On Sat, Oct 3, 2009 at 11:24 PM, Mark Weiss wrote: >>It would be helpful to know what kind of impairment. But assuming the >>student can speak she should be capable of discriminating length of >> syllable >>and should be able to scan qualitatively. >> >>Mark >> > > Maybe, if this were? a class on Robert Bridges - and it would at least > leave everyone in the class equally impaired, since English has no > audible quantities. > > Mike > > I did speak with the student; her pronunciation is near perfect, and I think > she has been deaf since birth. > > I've always wondered why English is said to have no audible quantities. > Surely the o in on is longer than the one in off, just as the u in tune is > longer than the one in rut.? I assume that poets who have tried to write > quantitative meters have taken this into consideration.? I'll have to see > what Bridges said on the matter. > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > Sam, I think in those cases it's the consonant that might be rather longer, since 'n' is voiced and 't' isn't. Still, even that would make the syllable longer if it were true. Are 'p,' 's,' and 'f' shorter than 'b,' 'z,' or 'v'? Has anyone actually measured syllable length in a statistically significant sample of English speech? But even if there are measurable and predictable differences in English syllable lengths, they aren't like the regular up and down of stress within English words. Think, for instance, of "affordable" - clearly two iambs, but while in most cases the second syllable would sound longer than the others, various inflections can make one or the other of the two 'a's seem slightly longer than the other, and, in a sentence such as "But is it affordable?," one might very well draw out the last syllable as the longest in the word. And what of these well-known lines? When Ajax strives, some Rocks' vast Weight to throw, The Line too labours, and the Words move slow; That first line is made of short words, but the line feels long because of what it takes to get from one word to the next, the rearrangements of the lips and tongue while there is no sound. But I'm just yammering now - bored because I've felt like crap all day and gotten nothing done. From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Sat Oct 10 17:12:34 2009 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sat, 10 Oct 2009 23:12:34 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Letters by Nima to Young Poets as translated by Farideh Hassanzadeh and revised by C. Pacosz Message-ID: <4b65c2d70910101412n74e5d395r1cd745b02b04d0cd@mail.gmail.com> I remember some time ago, someone asked about *Letters by Nima to Young Poets* (I sent to the list a quotation), and promised I would come back later as soon as the issue was available. Sorry if I forgot whom I should be talking to: http://ekleksographia.ahadadabooks.com/ballardini/authors/farideh_hassanzadeh_mostafavi.html from Ekleksographia on Translation: http://ekleksographia.ahadadabooks.com/ballardini/index.html -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From obodooha at gmail.com Sat Oct 10 08:00:26 2009 From: obodooha at gmail.com (Obododimma Oha) Date: Sat, 10 Oct 2009 05:00:26 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Virtual Venice Message-ID: "Multi-authorship of a poem is such a great thrill, especially when carried out by poets from diverse cultural backgrounds and languages, and particularly when it happens at the spur of the moment." More in Virtual Venice . -- Obododimma -- Obododimma Oha http://udude.wordpress.com/ Dept. of English University of Ibadan Nigeria & Fellow, Centre for Peace & Conflict Studies University of Ibadan Phone: +234 803 333 1330; +234 805 350 6604; +234 808 264 8060. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From junction at earthlink.net Sun Oct 11 22:41:40 2009 From: junction at earthlink.net (Mark Weiss) Date: Sun, 11 Oct 2009 22:41:40 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: FW: deaf student and scansion In-Reply-To: <6768ac830910111455q18625233x3f0114e2b59e8786@mail.gmail.co m> References: <6768ac830910111455q18625233x3f0114e2b59e8786@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Oh please. At 05:55 PM 10/11/2009, you wrote: >On Sat, Oct 3, 2009 at 11:24 PM, Mark Weiss wrote: > > It would be helpful to know what kind of impairment. But assuming the > > student can speak she should be capable of discriminating length > of syllable > > and should be able to scan qualitatively. > > > > Mark > > > >Maybe, if this were a class on Robert Bridges - and it would at least >leave everyone in the class equally impaired, since English has no >audible quantities. > >Mike >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry Announcing The Whole Island: Six Decades of Cuban Poetry (University of California Press). Forthcoming in November 2009 2009. To read more go to: http://go.ucpress.edu/WholeIsland "The Whole Island is a masterwork of cartography: a map of what is, for English-language readers, an almost unexplored territory, full of poets--at home and in the diaspora--whom we ought to know." -Eliot Weinberger "A definitive anthology guiding curious poets, literary scholars and teachers, and generations of readers out of the shadow of ignorant, imperialist 'lockdown' surrounding the breadth and power of Cuban poetry. [Weiss] provides a salient, comprehensive introduction covering the fascinating vidas of individual poets, literary movements, political exigencies, and the vicissitudes of an ongoing cultural struggle. But the imagination of the poetry rules. What emerges is an essential compendium to world literature. Presente!" -Anne Waldman From jforjames at aol.com Sun Oct 11 22:43:51 2009 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Sun, 11 Oct 2009 22:43:51 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Wallace Stevens B-Day Bash, Nov. 7, featuring Marjorie Perloff In-Reply-To: <8CC18FC8B312234-25A0-2CC7@webmail-d077.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CC18FC8B312234-25A0-2CC7@webmail-d077.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <8CC18FCF7A33945-25A0-2D37@webmail-d077.sysops.aol.com> 14th Annual ?Wallace Stevens Birthday Bash? Saturday, November 7 2009, 6:30 P.M. Hartford Public Library, 500 Main Street ? Program begins with a reception at 6:30 P.M. ? Featured Speaker?MARJORIE PERLOFF Beyond Adagia: Eccentric Design in Wallace Stevens' Poetry ?Poetry is a pheasant disappearing in the brush.? ?Wallace Steven, Adagia ? Birthday Cake & Champagne after the Program! ? Tickets: $45 per person. Send check payable to: Connecticut Center for the Book 500 Main Street Hartford CT 06103. ? Or reserve your tickets at the door, via email: lyons at hplct.org or by phone: 860-695-6320. Sponsored by Connecticut Center for the Book at the Hartford Public Library with help from The Friends & Enemies of Wallace Stevens. ? For more information, contact James Finnegan, 860-508-2810 jforjames at aol.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From junction at earthlink.net Sun Oct 11 22:51:23 2009 From: junction at earthlink.net (Mark Weiss) Date: Sun, 11 Oct 2009 22:51:23 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: FW: deaf student and scansion In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I'm not aware (this may be my lack) that anyone says English doesn't have quantities. It's rather, I think, that we for the most part scan quantitatively rather than qualitatively. But it seems to me that the music of, say, iambic pentameter, when it succeeds in being musical, isn't about the clunk of the quantitative scansion but its interplay with syllable length. If your student has near-perfect pronunciation then she should be able to feel the difference between degrees of stress. This wouldn't eliminate the problem. Many students with perfectly good hearing don't get scansion scansion because there are so many degrees of stress, differing across dialects. In theory, the feel of different degrees of stress could similarly cloud the field for your student. Mark At 06:21 PM 10/11/2009, you wrote: >In a message dated 10/11/2009 4:55:59 PM Central Daylight Time, >mandolin at mikesnider.org writes: >> >> >>On Sat, Oct 3, 2009 at 11:24 PM, Mark Weiss wrote: >> >It would be helpful to know what kind of impairment. But assuming the >> >student can speak she should be capable of discriminating length >> of syllable >> >and should be able to scan qualitatively. >> > >> >Mark >> > >> >>Maybe, if this were a class on Robert Bridges - and it would at least >>leave everyone in the class equally impaired, since English has no >>audible quantities. >> >>Mike > > >I did speak with the student; her pronunciation is near perfect, and >I think she has been deaf since birth. > >I've always wondered why English is said to have no audible >quantities. Surely the o in on is longer than the one in off, just >as the u in tune is longer than the one in rut. I assume that poets >who have tried to write quantitative meters have taken this into >consideration. I'll have to see what Bridges said on the matter. >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry Announcing The Whole Island: Six Decades of Cuban Poetry (University of California Press). Forthcoming in November 2009 2009. To read more go to: http://go.ucpress.edu/WholeIsland "The Whole Island is a masterwork of cartography: a map of what is, for English-language readers, an almost unexplored territory, full of poets--at home and in the diaspora--whom we ought to know." -Eliot Weinberger "A definitive anthology guiding curious poets, literary scholars and teachers, and generations of readers out of the shadow of ignorant, imperialist 'lockdown' surrounding the breadth and power of Cuban poetry. [Weiss] provides a salient, comprehensive introduction covering the fascinating vidas of individual poets, literary movements, political exigencies, and the vicissitudes of an ongoing cultural struggle. But the imagination of the poetry rules. What emerges is an essential compendium to world literature. Presente!" -Anne Waldman From grahamd at ripon.edu Sun Oct 11 23:59:26 2009 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Sun, 11 Oct 2009 22:59:26 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] and scansion In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8C94886B-2DFB-464B-90FA-5CB8BFDC9A6C@ripon.edu> Pinsky's discussion in *The Sounds of Poetry* is appealing. He distinguishes what he prefers to call "accent" and "duration," and proceeds to show how differences of vowel duration complicate the rhythm of accentual meter quite wonderfully. He treats duration, in other words, as one more factor (along with pitch, caesurae, assonance, consonance, syntax, and the other usual suspects) that contributes to the rhythmic play within and between lines, whether those lines are metrical or free. It's been a while since I read the book, but I don't recall that he takes any stand on whether purely quantitative meter is possible in English. His treatment of sound employs quite a few technical terms, but he's resolutely descriptive, not prescriptive. So he makes it clear throughout that the point is always to hear what's actually happening in a line or a poem, not to get hung up on terminology. ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.me.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mandolin at mikesnider.org Mon Oct 12 00:18:10 2009 From: mandolin at mikesnider.org (Mike Snider) Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2009 00:18:10 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: FW: deaf student and scansion In-Reply-To: References: <6768ac830910111455q18625233x3f0114e2b59e8786@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Sent from my iPod On Oct 11, 2009, at 10:41 PM, Mark Weiss wrote: > Oh please Save your superior attitude for things you know something about. Acentual-syllabic meters interact with ordinary speech stress to create their rhythms, and syllable length has nothing to do with it. There very well may be some regularity to syllable lengths in English, but the effect is neither strong enough nor predictable enough to create ordinarily perceptible structure a line of verse. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com Mon Oct 12 00:28:32 2009 From: robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com (Robin Hamilton) Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2009 05:28:32 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: FW: deaf student and scansion In-Reply-To: References: <6768ac830910111455q18625233x3f0114e2b59e8786@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <46F2CD7A5B96441FA3A51C8F25944AC9@RobinLaptopPC> From: Mike Snider << Acentual-syllabic meters interact with ordinary speech stress to create their rhythms, and syllable length has nothing to do with it. There very well may be some regularity to syllable lengths in English, but the effect is neither strong enough nor predictable enough to create ordinarily perceptible structure a line of verse. >> Well, yeah, Mike, that I'd sorta kinda agree with. But it's not what you said originally, and what Mark reacted to, articulating my own thought. What you said was: "... English has no audible quantities." My jaw dropped more than a little when I read that, and I'm comforted now that *both yourself and Mark validate my initial reaction. Robin From mandolin at mikesnider.org Mon Oct 12 00:33:25 2009 From: mandolin at mikesnider.org (Mike Snider) Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2009 00:33:25 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] and scansion In-Reply-To: <8C94886B-2DFB-464B-90FA-5CB8BFDC9A6C@ripon.edu> References: <8C94886B-2DFB-464B-90FA-5CB8BFDC9A6C@ripon.edu> Message-ID: <929CAB4A-9824-4D73-9A19-18B6FE4FCD15@mikesnider.org> I'd agree with this, David. Certainly poets use their sense of syllable length in making verse - but there's nothing about it as clear as the distinction between the relative stress of the syllables in a foot. Can anyone explain how metrical promotion/demotion might work in English quantitative verse? Or give an example? Those are, btw, serious questions and not intended as dismissive. On Oct 11, 2009, at 11:59 PM, David Graham wrote: > Pinsky's discussion in *The Sounds of Poetry* is appealing. He > distinguishes what he prefers to call "accent" and "duration," and > proceeds to show how differences of vowel duration complicate the > rhythm of accentual meter quite wonderfully. He treats duration, in > other words, as one more factor (along with pitch, caesurae, > assonance, consonance, syntax, and the other usual suspects) that > contributes to the rhythmic play within and between lines, whether > those lines are metrical or free. > > It's been a while since I read the book, but I don't recall that he > takes any stand on whether purely quantitative meter is possible in > English. His treatment of sound employs quite a few technical > terms, but he's resolutely descriptive, not prescriptive. So he > makes it clear throughout that the point is always to hear what's > actually happening in a line or a poem, not to get hung up on > terminology. > > > ======================================== > David Graham > grahamd at ripon.edu > > Home Page: > http://web.me.com/drjazz > > Poetry Library: > http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html > ========================================== > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From junction at earthlink.net Mon Oct 12 00:54:40 2009 From: junction at earthlink.net (Mark Weiss) Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2009 00:54:40 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: FW: deaf student and scansion In-Reply-To: References: <6768ac830910111455q18625233x3f0114e2b59e8786@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Flame war! Flame war! What fun for the kids! But seriously, rather a different statement than "English has no audible quantities." Which I know enough to know isn't true, as apparently you do as well. Sleep tight. Mark. At 12:18 AM 10/12/2009, you wrote: >Sent from my iPod > >On Oct 11, 2009, at 10:41 PM, Mark Weiss ><junction at earthlink.net> wrote: > >>Oh please > >Save your superior attitude for things you know something about. > >Acentual-syllabic meters interact with ordinary speech stress to >create their rhythms, and syllable length has nothing to do with it. >There very well may be some regularity to syllable lengths in >English, but the effect is neither strong enough nor predictable >enough to create ordinarily perceptible structure a line of verse. >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry Announcing The Whole Island: Six Decades of Cuban Poetry (University of California Press). Forthcoming in November 2009 2009. To read more go to: http://go.ucpress.edu/WholeIsland "The Whole Island is a masterwork of cartography: a map of what is, for English-language readers, an almost unexplored territory, full of poets--at home and in the diaspora--whom we ought to know." -Eliot Weinberger "A definitive anthology guiding curious poets, literary scholars and teachers, and generations of readers out of the shadow of ignorant, imperialist 'lockdown' surrounding the breadth and power of Cuban poetry. [Weiss] provides a salient, comprehensive introduction covering the fascinating vidas of individual poets, literary movements, political exigencies, and the vicissitudes of an ongoing cultural struggle. But the imagination of the poetry rules. What emerges is an essential compendium to world literature. Presente!" -Anne Waldman From mandolin at mikesnider.org Mon Oct 12 01:09:33 2009 From: mandolin at mikesnider.org (Mike Snider) Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2009 01:09:33 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: FW: deaf student and scansion In-Reply-To: <46F2CD7A5B96441FA3A51C8F25944AC9@RobinLaptopPC> References: <6768ac830910111455q18625233x3f0114e2b59e8786@mail.gmail.com> <46F2CD7A5B96441FA3A51C8F25944AC9@RobinLaptopPC> Message-ID: Robin, I should have said "quantity in English isn't stable enough to create reliably audible rhytmic structure, and is of extremely limited value in the scansion of English-language poetry." Teaching quantitative scansion just isn't a solution to the general problem of helping a deaf person understand the rhythms of Engish verse, however interesting it may be in the case of Bridges or Sydney or a few others. But now I've pissed Mark off being too flip and he's pissed me off and I can't get to sleep because I'm so congested I can't breathe quietly. Good thing I've got the day off tomorrow. On Oct 12, 2009, at 12:28 AM, "Robin Hamilton" wrote: > From: Mike Snider > > << > Acentual-syllabic meters interact with ordinary speech stress to > create their rhythms, and syllable length has nothing to do with it. > There very well may be some regularity to syllable lengths in > English, but the effect is neither strong enough nor predictable > enough to create ordinarily perceptible structure a line of verse. >>> > > Well, yeah, Mike, that I'd sorta kinda agree with. But it's not > what you said originally, and what Mark reacted to, articulating my > own thought. > > What you said was: > > "... English has no audible quantities." > > My jaw dropped more than a little when I read that, and I'm > comforted now that *both yourself and Mark validate my initial > reaction. > > Robin > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From mandolin at mikesnider.org Mon Oct 12 01:13:44 2009 From: mandolin at mikesnider.org (Mike Snider) Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2009 01:13:44 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: FW: deaf student and scansion In-Reply-To: References: <6768ac830910111455q18625233x3f0114e2b59e8786@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Thanks, Mark. I shouldn't post when I'm tired and sick. On Oct 12, 2009, at 12:54 AM, Mark Weiss wrote: > Flame war! Flame war! What fun for the kids! > > But seriously, rather a different statement than "English has no > audible quantities." Which I know enough to know isn't true, as > apparently you do as well. > > Sleep tight. > > Mark. > > > At 12:18 AM 10/12/2009, you wrote: > > >> Sent from my iPod >> >> On Oct 11, 2009, at 10:41 PM, Mark Weiss <> >junction at earthlink.net> wrote: >> >>> Oh please >> >> Save your superior attitude for things you know something about. >> >> Acentual-syllabic meters interact with ordinary speech stress to >> create their rhythms, and syllable length has nothing to do with >> it. There very well may be some regularity to syllable lengths in >> English, but the effect is neither strong enough nor predictable >> enough to create ordinarily perceptible structure a line of verse. >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > Announcing The Whole Island: Six Decades of Cuban Poetry (University > of California Press). > Forthcoming in November 2009 2009. > To read more go to: http://go.ucpress.edu/WholeIsland > > "The Whole Island is a masterwork of cartography: a map of what is, > for English-language readers, > an almost unexplored territory, full of poets--at home and in the > diaspora--whom we ought to know." > > > > > - > Eliot Weinberger > > "A definitive anthology guiding curious poets, literary scholars and > teachers, and generations of > readers out of the shadow of ignorant, imperialist 'lockdown' > surrounding the breadth and power of > Cuban poetry. [Weiss] provides a salient, comprehensive introduction > covering the fascinating vidas > of individual poets, literary movements, political exigencies, and > the vicissitudes of an ongoing cultural > struggle. But the imagination of the poetry rules. What emerges is > an essential compendium to > world literature. Presente!" > > > > > - > Anne Waldman > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From junction at earthlink.net Mon Oct 12 01:32:25 2009 From: junction at earthlink.net (Mark Weiss) Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2009 01:32:25 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: FW: deaf student and scansion In-Reply-To: References: <6768ac830910111455q18625233x3f0114e2b59e8786@mail.gmail.com> <46F2CD7A5B96441FA3A51C8F25944AC9@RobinLaptopPC> Message-ID: People tend to react to what one says rather than to what one should have said. This may change when we learn to think more loudly. Try vicks vaporub or a nice hot cup of ginger tea. Or my personal favorite (works every time), hot buttered rum. A few years ago Jerry Rothenberg got a fan letter from a profoundly-deaf-from-birth young woman. I was with him when he opened the letter. She included some of her own poetry. It wasn't formal verse, but it demonstrated awareness of rhythm and assonance--what I'd assumed were qualities of sound to which she would be immune. She had found a way to conceptualize them. It wasn't great poetry, but it wasn't bad, and she had only just begun to write. She also seemed to get the rhythms in Jerry's work. How this happened is mysterious to me. She must in some way have imagined sound. Formal scansion is another matter. As I suggested before, most students don't get it at first (if ever)--one person' or dialect's slight stress is another's no stress at all. I suggested that there must be a feeling in the mouth differentiating stress or length. It would be very subtle, but so apparently is the level of perceived stress even to most who can hear. I don't remember her name tho I've heard her perform--probably someone else will remember it. There's a wonderful deaf tympanist with an important career who feels the music through her feet. This allows her to play solo, but also in ensembles, meaning that she can "hear" the playing of others with considerable sensitivity. This to me is utterly incredible, but we know that the brain contains enough redundancy for incredible adaptations. Hell, they're teaching blind people to compose mental pictures of their environments out of tiny variations in an electrical current applied to the tongue. It's not full sight as yet, but it allows them to find doorways and such and to walk around unaided. Compared to which a girl who tho profoundly deaf has managed to learn to pronounce language ought to be able to figure out a stress pattern. Best, Mark At 01:09 AM 10/12/2009, you wrote: >Robin, > >I should have said "quantity in English isn't stable enough to create >reliably audible rhytmic structure, and is of extremely limited value >in the scansion of English-language poetry." > >Teaching quantitative scansion just isn't a solution to the general >problem of helping a deaf person understand the rhythms of Engish >verse, however interesting it may be in the case of Bridges or Sydney >or a few others. > >But now I've pissed Mark off being too flip and he's pissed me off >and I can't get to sleep because I'm so congested I can't breathe >quietly. Good thing I've got the day off tomorrow. > >On Oct 12, 2009, at 12:28 AM, "Robin Hamilton" > wrote: > >>From: Mike Snider >> >><< >>Acentual-syllabic meters interact with ordinary speech stress to >>create their rhythms, and syllable length has nothing to do with it. >>There very well may be some regularity to syllable lengths in >>English, but the effect is neither strong enough nor predictable >>enough to create ordinarily perceptible structure a line of verse. >> >>Well, yeah, Mike, that I'd sorta kinda agree with. But it's not >>what you said originally, and what Mark reacted to, articulating my >>own thought. >> >>What you said was: >> >> "... English has no audible quantities." >> >>My jaw dropped more than a little when I read that, and I'm >>comforted now that *both yourself and Mark validate my initial >>reaction. >> >>Robin >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>New-Poetry mailing list >>New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry Announcing The Whole Island: Six Decades of Cuban Poetry (University of California Press). Forthcoming in November 2009 2009. To read more go to: http://go.ucpress.edu/WholeIsland "The Whole Island is a masterwork of cartography: a map of what is, for English-language readers, an almost unexplored territory, full of poets--at home and in the diaspora--whom we ought to know." -Eliot Weinberger "A definitive anthology guiding curious poets, literary scholars and teachers, and generations of readers out of the shadow of ignorant, imperialist 'lockdown' surrounding the breadth and power of Cuban poetry. [Weiss] provides a salient, comprehensive introduction covering the fascinating vidas of individual poets, literary movements, political exigencies, and the vicissitudes of an ongoing cultural struggle. But the imagination of the poetry rules. What emerges is an essential compendium to world literature. Presente!" -Anne Waldman From junction at earthlink.net Mon Oct 12 01:34:25 2009 From: junction at earthlink.net (Mark Weiss) Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2009 01:34:25 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: FW: deaf student and scansion In-Reply-To: References: <6768ac830910111455q18625233x3f0114e2b59e8786@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Been known to do that myself. See medical suggestions in the email you've undoubtedly received by now. They do help. At 01:13 AM 10/12/2009, you wrote: >Thanks, Mark. I shouldn't post when I'm tired and sick. > >On Oct 12, 2009, at 12:54 AM, Mark Weiss wrote: > >>Flame war! Flame war! What fun for the kids! >> >>But seriously, rather a different statement than "English has no >>audible quantities." Which I know enough to know isn't true, as >>apparently you do as well. >> >>Sleep tight. >> >>Mark. >> >> >>At 12:18 AM 10/12/2009, you wrote: >> >> >>>Sent from my iPod >>> >>>On Oct 11, 2009, at 10:41 PM, Mark Weiss >>><junction at earthlink.net> wrote: >>> >>>>Oh please >>> >>>Save your superior attitude for things you know something about. >>> >>>Acentual-syllabic meters interact with ordinary speech stress to >>>create their rhythms, and syllable length has nothing to do with >>>it. There very well may be some regularity to syllable lengths in >>>English, but the effect is neither strong enough nor predictable >>>enough to create ordinarily perceptible structure a line of verse. >>>_______________________________________________ >>>New-Poetry mailing list >>>New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>>http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >>Announcing The Whole Island: Six Decades of Cuban Poetry (University >>of California Press). >>Forthcoming in November 2009 2009. >>To read more go to: http://go.ucpress.edu/WholeIsland >> >>"The Whole Island is a masterwork of cartography: a map of what is, >>for English-language readers, >>an almost unexplored territory, full of poets--at home and in the >>diaspora--whom we ought to know." >> >> >> >> >> >>- Eliot Weinberger >> >>"A definitive anthology guiding curious poets, literary scholars and >>teachers, and generations of >>readers out of the shadow of ignorant, imperialist 'lockdown' >>surrounding the breadth and power of >>Cuban poetry. [Weiss] provides a salient, comprehensive introduction >>covering the fascinating vidas >>of individual poets, literary movements, political exigencies, and >>the vicissitudes of an ongoing cultural >>struggle. But the imagination of the poetry rules. What emerges is >>an essential compendium to >>world literature. Presente!" >> >> >> >> >> >>- Anne Waldman >> >>_______________________________________________ >>New-Poetry mailing list >>New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry Announcing The Whole Island: Six Decades of Cuban Poetry (University of California Press). Forthcoming in November 2009 2009. To read more go to: http://go.ucpress.edu/WholeIsland "The Whole Island is a masterwork of cartography: a map of what is, for English-language readers, an almost unexplored territory, full of poets--at home and in the diaspora--whom we ought to know." -Eliot Weinberger "A definitive anthology guiding curious poets, literary scholars and teachers, and generations of readers out of the shadow of ignorant, imperialist 'lockdown' surrounding the breadth and power of Cuban poetry. [Weiss] provides a salient, comprehensive introduction covering the fascinating vidas of individual poets, literary movements, political exigencies, and the vicissitudes of an ongoing cultural struggle. But the imagination of the poetry rules. What emerges is an essential compendium to world literature. Presente!" -Anne Waldman From Edward.Byrne at valpo.edu Mon Oct 12 01:42:49 2009 From: Edward.Byrne at valpo.edu (Edward Byrne) Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2009 00:42:49 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Announcement: VPR Tenth Anniversary Issue Message-ID: <4AD27B87.7112.006E.1@valpo.edu> I am pleased to announce the special tenth anniversary issue of Valparaiso Poetry Review is now available for reading. As Valparaiso Poetry Review celebrates a decade since the initial publication in October of 1999 . . . http://edwardbyrne.blogspot.com/2009/10/vpr-tenth-anniversary-issue.html -------------------------------------------------- Edward Byrne Department of English 322 Huegli Hall Valparaiso University Valparaiso, IN 46383-6493 E-mail: edward.byrne at valpo.edu Home Page: http://www.valpo.edu/home/faculty/ebyrne/homepage/ Faculty Page: http://www.valpo.edu/english/faculty/byrne.php Personal Blog: http://edwardbyrnepoet.blogspot.com/ Editor, Valparaiso Poetry Review E-mail: vpr at valpo.edu VPR Web Page: http://www.valpo.edu/vpr/ VPR Editor's Blog: http://edwardbyrne.blogspot.com/ Office Phone: (219) 464-5278 Twitter: http://twitter.com/valpopoetry Fax: (219) 464-5511 -------------------------------------------------- From jbalizsprince at googlemail.com Mon Oct 12 05:19:37 2009 From: jbalizsprince at googlemail.com (Judy Prince) Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2009 05:19:37 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: FW: deaf student and scansion In-Reply-To: <6768ac830910111728q1231edceke6cc28e714facba1@mail.gmail.com> References: <6768ac830910111728q1231edceke6cc28e714facba1@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7db1d01b0910120219v60402aaah4b6c28f9bd4d635f@mail.gmail.com> I'll jump in here, Michael, having deleted most of this thread after it started out with little explanation and then just got silly. Rather than responding to anyone in particular, I'm now reeling off what I think are obvious thoughts [but that folks may think need adjusting]. Most of the following ideas formed first from my understanding of beginning music theory/practise and later was informed by my study of [Mandarin] Chinese speech which made me take a different look at how we native English speakers say stressed syllables [i.e., how we emphasise sound 'beats']: 1] How long a 'beat' or syllable lasts is independent of how loud [heavy, stressed] it is. (e.g., both "NO!" and "no" can be stretched long or kept brief, but are still a 'beat' or syllable) 3] Soft sounds [vowels] are able to last longer than hard sounds [consonants]. 5] Soft sounds can morph through two or more soft sounds in a single beat(think a soft 3-morph diphthong such as in "out"= "ah", "oh", "oo"), and so can hard sounds morph through two or more hard sounds in a single beat(think an initial hard 3-morph pile-up such as "splash"). I imagine that all of these things could be 'heard' by the student initially mentioned on this thread, though I may be wrong. If indeed the student 'hears' these things, then what's missing in the student's poetry-apprehending? What other things did I not include in my brief list which, if not 'heard' by the student, would create a problem for her/his thoroughly apprehending a poem? Is there a similar problem [s]he has with reading prose? Best, Judy 2009/10/11 Michael Snider > On Sun, Oct 11, 2009 at 6:21 PM, wrote: > > In a message dated 10/11/2009 4:55:59 PM Central Daylight Time, > > mandolin at mikesnider.org writes: > > > > > > On Sat, Oct 3, 2009 at 11:24 PM, Mark Weiss > wrote: > >>It would be helpful to know what kind of impairment. But assuming the > >>student can speak she should be capable of discriminating length of > >> syllable > >>and should be able to scan qualitatively. > >> > >>Mark > >> > > > > Maybe, if this were a class on Robert Bridges - and it would at least > > leave everyone in the class equally impaired, since English has no > > audible quantities. > > > > Mike > > > > I did speak with the student; her pronunciation is near perfect, and I > think > > she has been deaf since birth. > > > > I've always wondered why English is said to have no audible quantities. > > Surely the o in on is longer than the one in off, just as the u in tune > is > > longer than the one in rut. I assume that poets who have tried to write > > quantitative meters have taken this into consideration. I'll have to see > > what Bridges said on the matter. > > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > > Sam, I think in those cases it's the consonant that might be rather > longer, since 'n' is voiced and 't' isn't. Still, even that would make > the syllable longer if it were true. Are 'p,' 's,' and 'f' shorter > than 'b,' 'z,' or 'v'? Has anyone actually measured syllable length > in a statistically significant sample of English speech? > > But even if there are measurable and predictable differences in > English syllable lengths, they aren't like the regular up and down of > stress within English words. Think, for instance, of "affordable" - > clearly two iambs, but while in most cases the second syllable would > sound longer than the others, various inflections can make one or the > other of the two 'a's seem slightly longer than the other, and, in a > sentence such as "But is it affordable?," one might very well draw out > the last syllable as the longest in the word. > > And what of these well-known lines? > > When Ajax strives, some Rocks' vast Weight to throw, > The Line too labours, and the Words move slow; > > That first line is made of short words, but the line feels long > because of what it takes to get from one word to the next, the > rearrangements of the lips and tongue while there is no sound. > > But I'm just yammering now - bored because I've felt like crap all day > and gotten nothing done. > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jfq at myuw.net Mon Oct 12 05:58:44 2009 From: jfq at myuw.net (Jason Quackenbush) Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2009 02:58:44 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: FW: deaf student and scansion In-Reply-To: <46F2CD7A5B96441FA3A51C8F25944AC9@RobinLaptopPC> References: <6768ac830910111455q18625233x3f0114e2b59e8786@mail.gmail.com> <46F2CD7A5B96441FA3A51C8F25944AC9@RobinLaptopPC> Message-ID: wow robin, do you and i actually agree on an issue of meter? clearly there are audible quantities in English, but they are hihgly irregular in particular between dialects and generally get subsumed by the much stronger rhythmic quality of stress. On Oct 11, 2009, at 9:28 PM, Robin Hamilton wrote: > From: Mike Snider > > << > Acentual-syllabic meters interact with ordinary speech stress to > create their rhythms, and syllable length has nothing to do with it. > There very well may be some regularity to syllable lengths in > English, but the effect is neither strong enough nor predictable > enough to create ordinarily perceptible structure a line of verse. >>> > > Well, yeah, Mike, that I'd sorta kinda agree with. But it's not > what you said originally, and what Mark reacted to, articulating my > own thought. > > What you said was: > > "... English has no audible quantities." > > My jaw dropped more than a little when I read that, and I'm > comforted now that *both yourself and Mark validate my initial > reaction. > > Robin > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From jfq at myuw.net Mon Oct 12 06:12:38 2009 From: jfq at myuw.net (Jason Quackenbush) Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2009 03:12:38 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: FW: deaf student and scansion In-Reply-To: References: <6768ac830910111455q18625233x3f0114e2b59e8786@mail.gmail.com> <46F2CD7A5B96441FA3A51C8F25944AC9@RobinLaptopPC> Message-ID: I'd tend to agree. Formal scansion tends to be both hamhanded and misleading about the qualities it allegedly tries to capture. As such it is of limited value except for attempting to understand some of the choices made by English language poets during a certain historical period. Prior to the rennaisance, accentual verse probably does the job as well as it needs to and post whitman, roughly, there's a much broader understanding of meter that thinking in terms of borrowed greek feet won't ever adequately get at. as to how to address the issues of a deaf student, the question i want to ask is does she really need to be able to scan poetry? I would think that you could come up with some sort of tactile substitue, assuming she reads lips, where you could read the poem to her and squeeze her hand on the stresses to help understand that a stress is a timed element of composition tied to specific syllables. beyond that, however, i dont see much value in hearing people being able to shoehorn the sounds of spoken english into traditional scansion. making a big deal about how the deaf are unable to do so therefore seems a bit ablist and potentially alienating in service of ideas of dubious value in the first place. On Oct 11, 2009, at 10:32 PM, Mark Weiss wrote: > People tend to react to what one says rather than to what one should > have said. This may change when we learn to think more loudly. > > Try vicks vaporub or a nice hot cup of ginger tea. Or my personal > favorite (works every time), hot buttered rum. > > A few years ago Jerry Rothenberg got a fan letter from a profoundly- > deaf-from-birth young woman. I was with him when he opened the > letter. She included some of her own poetry. It wasn't formal verse, > but it demonstrated awareness of rhythm and assonance--what I'd > assumed were qualities of sound to which she would be immune. She > had found a way to conceptualize them. It wasn't great poetry, but > it wasn't bad, and she had only just begun to write. She also seemed > to get the rhythms in Jerry's work. How this happened is mysterious > to me. She must in some way have imagined sound. > > Formal scansion is another matter. As I suggested before, most > students don't get it at first (if ever)--one person' or dialect's > slight stress is another's no stress at all. > > I suggested that there must be a feeling in the mouth > differentiating stress or length. It would be very subtle, but so > apparently is the level of perceived stress even to most who can hear. > > I don't remember her name tho I've heard her perform--probably > someone else will remember it. There's a wonderful deaf tympanist > with an important career who feels the music through her feet. This > allows her to play solo, but also in ensembles, meaning that she can > "hear" the playing of others with considerable sensitivity. This to > me is utterly incredible, but we know that the brain contains enough > redundancy for incredible adaptations. Hell, they're teaching blind > people to compose mental pictures of their environments out of tiny > variations in an electrical current applied to the tongue. It's not > full sight as yet, but it allows them to find doorways and such and > to walk around unaided. > > Compared to which a girl who tho profoundly deaf has managed to > learn to pronounce language ought to be able to figure out a stress > pattern. > > Best, > > Mark > > At 01:09 AM 10/12/2009, you wrote: >> Robin, >> >> I should have said "quantity in English isn't stable enough to create >> reliably audible rhytmic structure, and is of extremely limited value >> in the scansion of English-language poetry." >> >> Teaching quantitative scansion just isn't a solution to the general >> problem of helping a deaf person understand the rhythms of Engish >> verse, however interesting it may be in the case of Bridges or Sydney >> or a few others. >> >> But now I've pissed Mark off being too flip and he's pissed me off >> and I can't get to sleep because I'm so congested I can't breathe >> quietly. Good thing I've got the day off tomorrow. >> >> On Oct 12, 2009, at 12:28 AM, "Robin Hamilton" > > wrote: >> >>> From: Mike Snider >>> >>> << >>> Acentual-syllabic meters interact with ordinary speech stress to >>> create their rhythms, and syllable length has nothing to do with it. >>> There very well may be some regularity to syllable lengths in >>> English, but the effect is neither strong enough nor predictable >>> enough to create ordinarily perceptible structure a line of verse. >>> >>> Well, yeah, Mike, that I'd sorta kinda agree with. But it's not >>> what you said originally, and what Mark reacted to, articulating my >>> own thought. >>> >>> What you said was: >>> >>> "... English has no audible quantities." >>> >>> My jaw dropped more than a little when I read that, and I'm >>> comforted now that *both yourself and Mark validate my initial >>> reaction. >>> >>> Robin >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> New-Poetry mailing list >>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > Announcing The Whole Island: Six Decades of Cuban Poetry (University > of California Press). > Forthcoming in November 2009 2009. > To read more go to: http://go.ucpress.edu/WholeIsland > > "The Whole Island is a masterwork of cartography: a map of what is, > for English-language readers, > an almost unexplored territory, full of poets--at home and in the > diaspora--whom we ought to know." > -Eliot > Weinberger > > "A definitive anthology guiding curious poets, literary scholars and > teachers, and generations of > readers out of the shadow of ignorant, imperialist 'lockdown' > surrounding the breadth and power of > Cuban poetry. [Weiss] provides a salient, comprehensive introduction > covering the fascinating vidas > of individual poets, literary movements, political exigencies, and > the vicissitudes of an ongoing cultural > struggle. But the imagination of the poetry rules. What emerges is > an essential compendium to > world literature. Presente!" > -Anne > Waldman > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From halvard at gmail.com Mon Oct 12 10:23:33 2009 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2009 09:23:33 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: FW: deaf student and scansion In-Reply-To: References: <6768ac830910111455q18625233x3f0114e2b59e8786@mail.gmail.com> <46F2CD7A5B96441FA3A51C8F25944AC9@RobinLaptopPC> Message-ID: Her name is Evelyn Glennie, now Dame Evelyn Glennie. Hal "Once upon a time Baltimore was necessary." --Gertrude Stein Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org On Mon, Oct 12, 2009 at 12:32 AM, Mark Weiss wrote: > People tend to react to what one says rather than to what one should have > said. This may change when we learn to think more loudly. > > Try vicks vaporub or a nice hot cup of ginger tea. Or my personal favorite > (works every time), hot buttered rum. > > A few years ago Jerry Rothenberg got a fan letter from a > profoundly-deaf-from-birth young woman. I was with him when he opened the > letter. She included some of her own poetry. It wasn't formal verse, but it > demonstrated awareness of rhythm and assonance--what I'd assumed were > qualities of sound to which she would be immune. She had found a way to > conceptualize them. It wasn't great poetry, but it wasn't bad, and she had > only just begun to write. She also seemed to get the rhythms in Jerry's > work. How this happened is mysterious to me. She must in some way have > imagined sound. > > Formal scansion is another matter. As I suggested before, most students > don't get it at first (if ever)--one person' or dialect's slight stress is > another's no stress at all. > > I suggested that there must be a feeling in the mouth differentiating > stress or length. It would be very subtle, but so apparently is the level of > perceived stress even to most who can hear. > > I don't remember her name tho I've heard her perform--probably someone else > will remember it. There's a wonderful deaf tympanist with an important > career who feels the music through her feet. This allows her to play solo, > but also in ensembles, meaning that she can "hear" the playing of others > with considerable sensitivity. This to me is utterly incredible, but we know > that the brain contains enough redundancy for incredible adaptations. Hell, > they're teaching blind people to compose mental pictures of their > environments out of tiny variations in an electrical current applied to the > tongue. It's not full sight as yet, but it allows them to find doorways and > such and to walk around unaided. > > Compared to which a girl who tho profoundly deaf has managed to learn to > pronounce language ought to be able to figure out a stress pattern. > > Best, > > Mark > > > At 01:09 AM 10/12/2009, you wrote: > >> Robin, >> >> I should have said "quantity in English isn't stable enough to create >> reliably audible rhytmic structure, and is of extremely limited value >> in the scansion of English-language poetry." >> >> Teaching quantitative scansion just isn't a solution to the general >> problem of helping a deaf person understand the rhythms of Engish >> verse, however interesting it may be in the case of Bridges or Sydney >> or a few others. >> >> But now I've pissed Mark off being too flip and he's pissed me off >> and I can't get to sleep because I'm so congested I can't breathe >> quietly. Good thing I've got the day off tomorrow. >> >> On Oct 12, 2009, at 12:28 AM, "Robin Hamilton" < >> robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com > wrote: >> >> From: Mike Snider >>> >>> << >>> Acentual-syllabic meters interact with ordinary speech stress to >>> create their rhythms, and syllable length has nothing to do with it. >>> There very well may be some regularity to syllable lengths in >>> English, but the effect is neither strong enough nor predictable >>> enough to create ordinarily perceptible structure a line of verse. >>> >>> Well, yeah, Mike, that I'd sorta kinda agree with. But it's not >>> what you said originally, and what Mark reacted to, articulating my >>> own thought. >>> >>> What you said was: >>> >>> "... English has no audible quantities." >>> >>> My jaw dropped more than a little when I read that, and I'm >>> comforted now that *both yourself and Mark validate my initial >>> reaction. >>> >>> Robin >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> New-Poetry mailing list >>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> > > Announcing The Whole Island: Six Decades of Cuban Poetry (University of > California Press). > Forthcoming in November 2009 2009. > To read more go to: http://go.ucpress.edu/WholeIsland > > "The Whole Island is a masterwork of cartography: a map of what is, for > English-language readers, > an almost unexplored territory, full of poets--at home and in the > diaspora--whom we ought to know." > > -Eliot Weinberger > > "A definitive anthology guiding curious poets, literary scholars and > teachers, and generations of > readers out of the shadow of ignorant, imperialist 'lockdown' surrounding > the breadth and power of > Cuban poetry. [Weiss] provides a salient, comprehensive introduction > covering the fascinating vidas > of individual poets, literary movements, political exigencies, and the > vicissitudes of an ongoing cultural > struggle. But the imagination of the poetry rules. What emerges is an > essential compendium to > world literature. Presente!" > > -Anne Waldman > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Mon Oct 12 11:04:41 2009 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2009 17:04:41 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Wallace Stevens B-Day Bash, Nov. 7, featuring Marjorie Perloff In-Reply-To: <8CC18FCF7A33945-25A0-2D37@webmail-d077.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CC18FC8B312234-25A0-2CC7@webmail-d077.sysops.aol.com> <8CC18FCF7A33945-25A0-2D37@webmail-d077.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <4b65c2d70910120804q4c66054enfd97661103bb65e9@mail.gmail.com> A Cheers from the Alps! On Mon, Oct 12, 2009 at 4:43 AM, wrote: > 14th Annual ?Wallace Stevens Birthday Bash? > Saturday, November 7 2009, 6:30 P.M. > Hartford Public Library, 500 Main Street > > Program begins with a reception at 6:30 P.M. > > Featured Speaker?MARJORIE PERLOFF > Beyond Adagia: Eccentric Design in Wallace Stevens' Poetry > ?Poetry is a pheasant disappearing in the brush.? ?Wallace Steven, Adagia > > Birthday Cake & Champagne after the Program! > > Tickets: $45 per person. Send check payable to: > Connecticut Center for the Book > 500 Main Street > Hartford CT 06103. > > Or reserve your tickets at the door, > via email: lyons at hplct.org > or by phone: 860-695-6320. > Sponsored by > Connecticut Center for the Book at the Hartford Public Library > with help from The Friends & Enemies of Wallace Stevens. > > For more information, contact > James Finnegan, 860-508-2810 > jforjames at aol.com > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From junction at earthlink.net Mon Oct 12 11:44:55 2009 From: junction at earthlink.net (Mark Weiss) Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2009 11:44:55 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: FW: deaf student and scansion In-Reply-To: References: <6768ac830910111455q18625233x3f0114e2b59e8786@mail.gmail.com> <46F2CD7A5B96441FA3A51C8F25944AC9@RobinLaptopPC> Message-ID: Yup that's her. At 10:23 AM 10/12/2009, you wrote: >Her name is Evelyn Glennie, now Dame Evelyn Glennie. > >Hal > >"Once upon a time Baltimore was necessary." > --Gertrude Stein > >Halvard Johnson >================ >halvard at gmail.com >http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home >http://entropyandme.blogspot.com >http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com >http://www.hamiltonstone.org > > > > > >On Mon, Oct 12, 2009 at 12:32 AM, Mark Weiss ><junction at earthlink.net> wrote: >People tend to react to what one says rather than to what one should >have said. This may change when we learn to think more loudly. > >Try vicks vaporub or a nice hot cup of ginger tea. Or my personal >favorite (works every time), hot buttered rum. > >A few years ago Jerry Rothenberg got a fan letter from a >profoundly-deaf-from-birth young woman. I was with him when he >opened the letter. She included some of her own poetry. It wasn't >formal verse, but it demonstrated awareness of rhythm and >assonance--what I'd assumed were qualities of sound to which she >would be immune. She had found a way to conceptualize them. It >wasn't great poetry, but it wasn't bad, and she had only just begun >to write. She also seemed to get the rhythms in Jerry's work. How >this happened is mysterious to me. She must in some way have imagined sound. > >Formal scansion is another matter. As I suggested before, most >students don't get it at first (if ever)--one person' or dialect's >slight stress is another's no stress at all. > >I suggested that there must be a feeling in the mouth >differentiating stress or length. It would be very subtle, but so >apparently is the level of perceived stress even to most who can hear. > >I don't remember her name tho I've heard her perform--probably >someone else will remember it. There's a wonderful deaf tympanist >with an important career who feels the music through her feet. This >allows her to play solo, but also in ensembles, meaning that she can >"hear" the playing of others with considerable sensitivity. This to >me is utterly incredible, but we know that the brain contains enough >redundancy for incredible adaptations. Hell, they're teaching blind >people to compose mental pictures of their environments out of tiny >variations in an electrical current applied to the tongue. It's not >full sight as yet, but it allows them to find doorways and such and >to walk around unaided. > >Compared to which a girl who tho profoundly deaf has managed to >learn to pronounce language ought to be able to figure out a stress pattern. > >Best, > >Mark > > >At 01:09 AM 10/12/2009, you wrote: >Robin, > >I should have said "quantity in English isn't stable enough to create >reliably audible rhytmic structure, and is of extremely limited value >in the scansion of English-language poetry." > >Teaching quantitative scansion just isn't a solution to the general >problem of helping a deaf person understand the rhythms of Engish >verse, however interesting it may be in the case of Bridges or Sydney >or a few others. > >But now I've pissed Mark off being too flip and he's pissed me off >and I can't get to sleep because I'm so congested I can't breathe >quietly. Good thing I've got the day off tomorrow. > >On Oct 12, 2009, at 12:28 AM, "Robin Hamilton" ><robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com > wrote: > >From: Mike Snider > ><< >Acentual-syllabic meters interact with ordinary speech stress to >create their rhythms, and syllable length has nothing to do with it. >There very well may be some regularity to syllable lengths in >English, but the effect is neither strong enough nor predictable >enough to create ordinarily perceptible structure a line of verse. > >Well, yeah, Mike, that I'd sorta kinda agree with. But it's not >what you said originally, and what Mark reacted to, articulating my >own thought. > >What you said was: > > "... English has no audible quantities." > >My jaw dropped more than a little when I read that, and I'm >comforted now that *both yourself and Mark validate my initial >reaction. > >Robin > > >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > >Announcing The Whole Island: Six Decades of Cuban Poetry (University >of California Press). >Forthcoming in November 2009 2009. >To read more go to: >http://go.ucpress.edu/WholeIsland > >"The Whole Island is a masterwork of cartography: a map of what is, >for English-language readers, >an almost unexplored territory, full of poets--at home and in the >diaspora--whom we ought to know." > >-Eliot Weinberger > >"A definitive anthology guiding curious poets, literary scholars and >teachers, and generations of >readers out of the shadow of ignorant, imperialist 'lockdown' >surrounding the breadth and power of >Cuban poetry. [Weiss] provides a salient, comprehensive introduction >covering the fascinating vidas >of individual poets, literary movements, political exigencies, and >the vicissitudes of an ongoing cultural >struggle. But the imagination of the poetry rules. What emerges is >an essential compendium to >world literature. Presente!" > >-Anne Waldman > >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry Announcing The Whole Island: Six Decades of Cuban Poetry (University of California Press). Forthcoming in November 2009 2009. To read more go to: http://go.ucpress.edu/WholeIsland "The Whole Island is a masterwork of cartography: a map of what is, for English-language readers, an almost unexplored territory, full of poets--at home and in the diaspora--whom we ought to know." -Eliot Weinberger "A definitive anthology guiding curious poets, literary scholars and teachers, and generations of readers out of the shadow of ignorant, imperialist 'lockdown' surrounding the breadth and power of Cuban poetry. [Weiss] provides a salient, comprehensive introduction covering the fascinating vidas of individual poets, literary movements, political exigencies, and the vicissitudes of an ongoing cultural struggle. But the imagination of the poetry rules. What emerges is an essential compendium to world literature. Presente!" -Anne Waldman From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Mon Oct 12 18:52:17 2009 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2009 17:52:17 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: FW: deaf student and scansion In-Reply-To: References: <6768ac830910111455q18625233x3f 0114e2b59e8786@mail.gmail.com><46F2CD7A5B96441FA3A51C8F25944AC9@RobinLaptopPC> Message-ID: <4AD3B321.6020805@nut-n-but.net> This discussion and/or maybe recent ones on the subject made me realize I had never thought about syllable-length. So I did, and it seems to me that if a word of two syllables (in English) has one short syllable and one clearly longer (defined for me as literally longer, like the "thir" of "thirty"), the longer gets the stress. Is this a general rule? Can anyone come up with an example of such a word whose short syllable is the one stressed in normal speech? --Bob From mandolin at mikesnider.org Mon Oct 12 18:05:02 2009 From: mandolin at mikesnider.org (Michael Snider) Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2009 18:05:02 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: FW: deaf student and scansion In-Reply-To: <7db1d01b0910120219v60402aaah4b6c28f9bd4d635f@mail.gmail.com> References: <6768ac830910111728q1231edceke6cc28e714facba1@mail.gmail.com> <7db1d01b0910120219v60402aaah4b6c28f9bd4d635f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <6768ac830910121505w31f9eafboedbffdd0f9f48c64@mail.gmail.com> Judy, everything you say below is true and interesting, and I can't speak for Sam, who I think originated the thread, but it seems to me that the rhythms in music and poetry are produced in very different ways. The concept of the beat, in particular, is problematic in accentual-syllabic verse because beat and metrical stress are not at all the same things. There's nothing like 6/8 time where you can find the beats on 1 and 4, and, as you noted, when singing, a single syllable can be sung over a group of notes or even over a few bars of music. That can't happen in English meters, not without some typographical indication like "a- way-ay-ay." But one of the joys of iambic pentameter, in particular, is how the number of beats per line varies over the poem against the (mostly) invariant 5 metrical stresses, and how the strong stresses, the beats, move amongst the metrical stresses (a large part of what I meant when I said the rhythms of accentual-syllabic verse arise from the interplay of meter and ordinary speech rhythm) and that doesn't ordinarily happen in music - sure there's multi-metrical music, and time signatures change, but those are metrical changes, while the meter in a poem is unaffected by the movement of strong beats. It does seem to me that if the student's pronunciation is near-perfect, than she probably knows enough about within-word stress to be able to work out traditional English meters. Scansion is often just marking the accented syllables of a line's multi-syllabic words and then fitting the rest of the line without doing violence to common sense. Best, Mike On Mon, Oct 12, 2009 at 5:19 AM, Judy Prince wrote: > I'll jump in here, Michael, having deleted most of this thread after it > started out with little explanation and then just got silly. ?Rather than > responding to anyone in particular, I'm now reeling off what I think are > obvious thoughts [but that folks may think need adjusting]. > Most of the following ideas formed first from my understanding of beginning > music theory/practise and later was informed by my study of [Mandarin] > Chinese speech which made me take a different look at how we native English > speakers say stressed syllables [i.e., how we emphasise sound 'beats']: > 1] ?How long a 'beat' or syllable lasts is independent of how loud [heavy, > stressed] it is. ?(e.g., both "NO!" and "no" can be stretched long or kept > brief, but are still a 'beat' or syllable) > 3] ?Soft sounds [vowels] are able to last longer than hard sounds > [consonants]. > 5] ?Soft?sounds can morph through two or more soft sounds in a single beat > (think a soft 3-morph diphthong such as in "out"= "ah", "oh", "oo"), and so > can hard sounds morph through two or more hard sounds in a single beat > (think an initial hard 3-morph pile-up such as "splash"). > I imagine that all of these things could be 'heard' by the student initially > mentioned on this thread, though I may be wrong. ?If indeed the student > 'hears' these things, then what's missing in the student's > poetry-apprehending? ?What other things did I not include in my brief list > which, if not 'heard' by the student, would create a problem for her/his > thoroughly apprehending a poem? ?Is there a similar problem [s]he has with > reading prose? > Best, > Judy From mandolin at mikesnider.org Mon Oct 12 18:41:02 2009 From: mandolin at mikesnider.org (Michael Snider) Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2009 18:41:02 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: FW: deaf student and scansion In-Reply-To: <4AD3B321.6020805@nut-n-but.net> References: <46F2CD7A5B96441FA3A51C8F25944AC9@RobinLaptopPC> <4AD3B321.6020805@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <6768ac830910121541o4d240220o8f8b2545d3b8279@mail.gmail.com> darling always open primeval popcorn ardent mustard theocracy decision quintessence tumescence seems more common on the first or second syllable - of course, one of the two will take at least some stress in English. not many have the major accent on the third syllable - 'admiration' does, though I'm not sure it meets your criteria of 'smallest,' since only the 'tion' is longer, and those kinds of part-of-speech changing endings never get the accent. Oh - 'never' and 'accent' and that's the kind of thing metrical poets do - collect words to fit in various metrical contexts. Here's one that breaks the usual pattern of alternating within-word stress: 'literature' On Mon, Oct 12, 2009 at 6:52 PM, Bob Grumman wrote: > This discussion and/or maybe recent ones on the subject made me realize I > had never thought about syllable-length. ?So I did, and it seems to me that > if a word of two syllables (in English) has one short syllable and one > clearly longer (defined for me as literally longer, like the "thir" of > "thirty"), the longer gets the stress. ?Is this a general rule? ?Can anyone > come up with an example of such a word whose short syllable is the one > stressed in normal speech? > > --Bob > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > From jfq at myuw.net Mon Oct 12 18:44:15 2009 From: jfq at myuw.net (Jason Quackenbush) Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2009 15:44:15 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: FW: deaf student and scansion In-Reply-To: <6768ac830910121505w31f9eafboedbffdd0f9f48c64@mail.gmail.com> References: <6768ac830910111728q1231edceke6cc28e714facba1@mail.gmail.com> <7db1d01b0910120219v60402aaah4b6c28f9bd4d635f@mail.gmail.com> <6768ac830910121505w31f9eafboedbffdd0f9f48c64@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Oct 12, 2009, at 3:05 PM, Michael Snider wrote: the beats, > move amongst the metrical stresses (a large part of what I meant when > I said the rhythms of accentual-syllabic verse arise from the > interplay of meter and ordinary speech rhythm) and that doesn't > ordinarily happen in music - sure there's multi-metrical music, and > time signatures change, but those are metrical changes, while the > meter in a poem is unaffected by the movement of strong beats. that's not really true. Music allows for accents as well as strong and weak beats all regulated in time by the pulse of the tempo. It is certainly possible to accent a weak beat. The best example of this is the fundamental rock and roll rhythm which is characterized by the "back beat" accentuation of the weak 2 and 4 in 4/4 or 12/8 time. The difference between music and speech here is in fact very slight, the only real difference being that the timing of language is not strictly controlled by a basic pulse operating at a regular tempo. Even so, there are exceptions to that in music, for example much choral music dating from as early as the ars nova period was conducted not based on a pulse or tempo but rather was accomodated according to phrase, and this treatment of rhythm was further developed during the baroque period. There is even a large body of music, particularly in some asian traditions, that is wholly ametric. I'd argue in general that this approach to meter can be used to understand free verse's jettisoning of regular meter based on the line in favor of a more naturalistic approach to the rhythm of language which is grounded in the phrase and the sentence as opposed to the artificial line. Which is to say that what you are pointing out about "the rhythms of accentual-syllabic verse [arising] from the interplay of meter and ordinary speech rhythm exists already in ordinary speech and you don't need to apply a formal meter to natural speech to get the effect you are describing. You just have to pay proper attention to the phrase and the use of accent, stress, and syllable weight as those exist within the phrase. Which is not to say that you CAN'T also get the effect by other means through the introduction of artificial metric systems borrowed from syllable timed languages in which notions like the foot make more sense. But I see no reason to privilege that approach to meter when it is essentially quite arbitrary and limiting. From Rsgwynn1 at cs.com Mon Oct 12 18:56:46 2009 From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com (Rsgwynn1 at cs.com) Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2009 18:56:46 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: FW: deaf student and scansion Message-ID: The long day wanes; the slow moon climbs; the deep Moans round with many voices. Come, my friends. 'T is not too late to seek a newer world. Push off, and sitting well in order smite The sounding furrows; for my purpose holds To sail beyond the sunset, and the baths Of all the western stars, until I die. Spondees and and long vowel sounds are prominent in the first line and a half; after that, shorter vowels and lots of "t" sounds quicken the pace a bit. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mandolin at mikesnider.org Mon Oct 12 19:27:06 2009 From: mandolin at mikesnider.org (Michael Snider) Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2009 19:27:06 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: FW: deaf student and scansion In-Reply-To: References: <6768ac830910111728q1231edceke6cc28e714facba1@mail.gmail.com> <7db1d01b0910120219v60402aaah4b6c28f9bd4d635f@mail.gmail.com> <6768ac830910121505w31f9eafboedbffdd0f9f48c64@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <6768ac830910121627y264be185k87d64bbd365c63dc@mail.gmail.com> Jason, All poetry is artifice. May I ask you a question: "Interplay" requires the presence of at least two players. When you drop the meter, what is that other player? Note that I'm not claiming the superiority of traditional metrical poetry: I like it better, but Ms O'Leary liked her cow. I do most emphatically reject any suggestion that traditional meters are in any way outmoded, or in any way a barrier to free and powerful expression, or in any way an impediment for the writer - or the reader. You might remember that the only book of verse to make the NYT bestseller list in recent times was Vikram Seth's 1986 "The Golden Gate," a novel told in around 600 stanzas of the form used by Pushkin for "Eugene Onegin." And yeah , 4/4 covers a lot of ground, from Irish reels to reggae to art song, but any musicians worth their salt know exactly where to punch it depending on the context. It's not at all the same as the way strong accents move from line to line in the pentameter. On Mon, Oct 12, 2009 at 6:44 PM, Jason Quackenbush wrote: > > On Oct 12, 2009, at 3:05 PM, Michael Snider wrote: > ?the beats, >> >> move amongst the metrical stresses (a large part of what I meant when >> I said the rhythms of accentual-syllabic verse arise from the >> interplay of meter and ordinary speech rhythm) and that doesn't >> ordinarily happen in music - sure there's multi-metrical music, and >> time signatures change, but those are metrical changes, while the >> meter in a poem is unaffected by the movement of strong beats. > > that's not really true. Music allows for accents as well as strong and weak > beats all regulated in time by the pulse of the tempo. It is certainly > possible to accent a weak beat. The best example of this is the fundamental > rock and roll rhythm which is characterized by the "back beat" accentuation > of the weak 2 and 4 in 4/4 or 12/8 time. The difference between music and > speech here is in fact very slight, the only real difference being that the > timing of language is not strictly controlled by a basic pulse operating at > a regular tempo. Even so, there are exceptions to that in music, for example > much choral music dating from as early as the ars nova period was conducted > not based on a pulse or tempo but rather was accomodated according to > phrase, and this treatment of rhythm was further developed during the > baroque period. There is even a large body of music, particularly in some > asian traditions, that is wholly ametric. I'd argue in general that this > approach to meter can be used to understand free verse's jettisoning of > regular meter based on the line in favor of a more naturalistic approach to > the rhythm of language which is grounded in the phrase and the sentence as > opposed to the artificial line. Which is to say that what you are pointing > out about "the rhythms of accentual-syllabic verse [arising] from the > interplay of meter and ordinary speech rhythm exists already in ordinary > speech and you don't need to apply a formal meter to natural speech to get > the effect you are describing. You just have to pay proper attention to the > phrase and the use of accent, stress, and syllable weight as those exist > within the phrase. > > Which is not to say that you CAN'T also get the effect by other means > through the introduction of artificial metric systems borrowed from syllable > timed languages in which notions like the foot make more sense. But I see no > reason to privilege that approach to meter when it is essentially quite > arbitrary and limiting. > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > From jfq at myuw.net Mon Oct 12 19:40:13 2009 From: jfq at myuw.net (Jason Quackenbush) Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2009 16:40:13 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: FW: deaf student and scansion In-Reply-To: <6768ac830910121627y264be185k87d64bbd365c63dc@mail.gmail.com> References: <6768ac830910111728q1231edceke6cc28e714facba1@mail.gmail.com> <7db1d01b0910120219v60402aaah4b6c28f9bd4d635f@mail.gmail.com> <6768ac830910121505w31f9eafboedbffdd0f9f48c64@mail.gmail.com> <6768ac830910121627y264be185k87d64bbd365c63dc@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: The interplay is between accent, syllable weight, & stress, which is all the interplay you get out an artificial form superimposed on linguistic prosody. Sorry if that wasn't clear. there is a difference between artifice in the sense you're using and artificial in the sense that I'm using it. Someone who cares about language and poetry should appreciate that distinction and not blur the line in service of a specious argument that amounts to little more than a cheap shot. yr ignorance of music is quite plain and I suggest you don't try to draw analogy to it in future. There's nothing at all mechanical about "knowing where to punch it" if you mean by that what I think you mean. Accent and beat strength exist in music in a way that is very much analogous to accent and stress in language and both present a wide ranging and open ended rhythmic palette. I'm not in the least bit interested in the NYT bestseller list as a measure of poetic value and i'm not really interested in discussing all this with someone who thinks reference to bestseller status is a point worth making. there's just too much no man's land between our positions and I don't see any reason to think I'm going to get anything out of continuing this conversation. just pretend i never said anything. i take it all back. On Oct 12, 2009, at 4:27 PM, Michael Snider wrote: > Jason, > > All poetry is artifice. May I ask you a question: "Interplay" requires > the presence of at least two players. When you drop the meter, what is > that other player? > > Note that I'm not claiming the superiority of traditional metrical > poetry: I like it better, but Ms O'Leary liked her cow. I do most > emphatically reject any suggestion that traditional meters are in any > way outmoded, or in any way a barrier to free and powerful expression, > or in any way an impediment for the writer - or the reader. You might > remember that the only book of verse to make the NYT bestseller list > in recent times was Vikram Seth's 1986 "The Golden Gate," a novel told > in around 600 stanzas of the form used by Pushkin for "Eugene Onegin." > > And yeah , 4/4 covers a lot of ground, from Irish reels to reggae to > art song, but any musicians worth their salt know exactly where to > punch it depending on the context. It's not at all the same as the way > strong accents move from line to line in the pentameter. > > On Mon, Oct 12, 2009 at 6:44 PM, Jason Quackenbush > wrote: >> >> On Oct 12, 2009, at 3:05 PM, Michael Snider wrote: >> the beats, >>> >>> move amongst the metrical stresses (a large part of what I meant >>> when >>> I said the rhythms of accentual-syllabic verse arise from the >>> interplay of meter and ordinary speech rhythm) and that doesn't >>> ordinarily happen in music - sure there's multi-metrical music, and >>> time signatures change, but those are metrical changes, while the >>> meter in a poem is unaffected by the movement of strong beats. >> >> that's not really true. Music allows for accents as well as strong >> and weak >> beats all regulated in time by the pulse of the tempo. It is >> certainly >> possible to accent a weak beat. The best example of this is the >> fundamental >> rock and roll rhythm which is characterized by the "back beat" >> accentuation >> of the weak 2 and 4 in 4/4 or 12/8 time. The difference between >> music and >> speech here is in fact very slight, the only real difference being >> that the >> timing of language is not strictly controlled by a basic pulse >> operating at >> a regular tempo. Even so, there are exceptions to that in music, >> for example >> much choral music dating from as early as the ars nova period was >> conducted >> not based on a pulse or tempo but rather was accomodated according to >> phrase, and this treatment of rhythm was further developed during the >> baroque period. There is even a large body of music, particularly >> in some >> asian traditions, that is wholly ametric. I'd argue in general that >> this >> approach to meter can be used to understand free verse's >> jettisoning of >> regular meter based on the line in favor of a more naturalistic >> approach to >> the rhythm of language which is grounded in the phrase and the >> sentence as >> opposed to the artificial line. Which is to say that what you are >> pointing >> out about "the rhythms of accentual-syllabic verse [arising] from the >> interplay of meter and ordinary speech rhythm exists already in >> ordinary >> speech and you don't need to apply a formal meter to natural speech >> to get >> the effect you are describing. You just have to pay proper >> attention to the >> phrase and the use of accent, stress, and syllable weight as those >> exist >> within the phrase. >> >> Which is not to say that you CAN'T also get the effect by other means >> through the introduction of artificial metric systems borrowed from >> syllable >> timed languages in which notions like the foot make more sense. But >> I see no >> reason to privilege that approach to meter when it is essentially >> quite >> arbitrary and limiting. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Mon Oct 12 21:20:09 2009 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2009 20:20:09 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: FW: deaf student and scansion In-Reply-To: <6768ac830910121541o4d240220o8f8b2545d3b8279@mail.gmail.com> References: <46F2CD7A5B96441FA3A51C8F25944AC9@RobinLaptopPC><4AD3B321.6020805@nut-n-but.net> <6768ac830910121541o4d240220o8f8b2545d3b8279@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4AD3D5C9.5090105@nut-n-but.net> Michael Snider wrote: > darling always open primeval popcorn ardent mustard theocracy > decision quintessence tumescence > Thanks, Mike. But I see "darling" as two syllables of equal length, "dar" and "ling." Although the second is longer according to my preliminary definition. Ditto the syllables in "theocracy"--and my concern was with two-syllable words only. "Popcorn" seems to me two strong beats. "always," "open" and "ardent" seem to refute my premise, though. > seems more common on the first or second syllable - of course, one of > the two will take at least some stress in English. > > not many have the major accent on the third syllable - 'admiration' > does, though I'm not sure it meets your criteria of 'smallest,' since > only the 'tion' is longer, and those kinds of part-of-speech changing > endings never get the accent. Yes, my immediate thought when I saw some of your words was that there may be a rule, or some small number of rules, that takes care of the words whose long syllable does not take the stress. > Oh - 'never' and 'accent.' > Yeah, yeah, pour it on! > and that's the kind of thing metrical poets do - collect words to fit > in various metrical contexts. > > Here's one that breaks the usual pattern of alternating within-word > stress: 'literature' > > Aye. I hope I'm not dopey enough to make a Serious Study of this, but if I do, I'll segregate words of different numbers of syllables from each other. > On Mon, Oct 12, 2009 at 6:52 PM, Bob Grumman wrote: > >> This discussion and/or maybe recent ones on the subject made me realize I >> had never thought about syllable-length. So I did, and it seems to me that >> if a word of two syllables (in English) has one short syllable and one >> clearly longer (defined for me as literally longer, like the "thir" of >> "thirty"), the longer gets the stress. Is this a general rule? Can anyone >> come up with an example of such a word whose short syllable is the one >> stressed in normal speech? >> >> --Bob From grahamd at ripon.edu Mon Oct 12 20:39:51 2009 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2009 19:39:51 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Stressed Message-ID: <9BD50A9A-A15A-445D-A76D-6D8AF3956A0B@ripon.edu> Would someone explain to me the difference between "accent" and "stress" in a line of poetry? (or "beat" and "accent," perhaps.) I understand the difference between duration/quantity and accent/stress, but it seems some people hear a difference between accent and stress. Not sure what we're talking about in that case. In my own teaching, when I tackle metrical stress I usually end up using truly dodgy terms like "oomph" to describe accented syllables. They're not louder or longer, necessarily, I say; they just get more, well, oomph. Still, it is remarkable how hard it is for many students to tell where the accent goes even in words they know and can pronounce normally. "Which syllable of 'Henry' do you stress more?" I might ask of a student named Henry. "Uh. . . . the second?" says Henry. "OK," I then say. "Pronounce your name aloud, please." "HENry," says Henry. "What did you just hear?" I inquire. "Which syllable had more oomph?" "Uh. . . . the second syllable?" says Henry. . . . ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.me.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com Mon Oct 12 20:40:05 2009 From: robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com (Robin Hamilton) Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2009 01:40:05 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: FW: deaf student and scansion In-Reply-To: References: <6768ac830910111728q1231edceke6cc28e714facba1@mail.gmail.com><7db1d01b0910120219v60402aaah4b6c28f9bd4d635f@mail.gmail.com><6768ac830910121505w31f9eafboedbffdd0f9f48c64@mail.gmail.com><6768ac830910121627y264be185k87d64bbd365c63dc@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <841776C1513F46D1B0091887935DEB62@RobinLaptopPC> > The interplay is between accent, syllable weight, & stress, which is all > the interplay you get out an artificial form superimposed on linguistic > prosody. Sorry if that wasn't clear. I must be dim, Jason, but I completely fail to comprehend the difference between accent, syllable weight, and stress, and thus how there could be any interplay between them. Unless you mean by two (which?) of those above terms, metrical stress and speech stress (or accent, or weight), which was what I think Mike was pointing to. (Didn't take long for matters to return to normal with my agreeing with Mike and disagreeing with you.) I think your earlier post also made a stunning conflation of the (abstract and debatable) mode of scansion, and the activity of actually writing syllable-accent metrical verse. The two can exist quite independently of each other. Well, I suppose there wouldn't be much for metricists to scan if no one had written metrical poetry, but there, that's the way of things. As it is, it seemed to me that you spent most of your post flogging a straw horse. Robin From robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com Mon Oct 12 20:42:18 2009 From: robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com (Robin Hamilton) Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2009 01:42:18 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Stressed In-Reply-To: <9BD50A9A-A15A-445D-A76D-6D8AF3956A0B@ripon.edu> References: <9BD50A9A-A15A-445D-A76D-6D8AF3956A0B@ripon.edu> Message-ID: <70B9110FCBC84BC0B8101CCB988DF6E3@RobinLaptopPC> << Would someone explain to me the difference between "accent" and "stress" in a line of poetry? (or "beat" and "accent," perhaps.) I understand the difference between duration/quantity and accent/stress, but it seems some people hear a difference between accent and stress. Not sure what we're talking about in that case. >> Snap, David -- our thoughts seem to be running in tandem at this present. R. From grahamd at ripon.edu Mon Oct 12 20:43:56 2009 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2009 19:43:56 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Accent vs. duration In-Reply-To: <4AD3B321.6020805@nut-n-but.net> References: <6768ac830910111455q18625233x3f 0114e2b59e8786@mail.gmail.com><46F2CD7A5B96441FA3A51C8F25944AC9@RobinLaptopPC> <4AD3B321.6020805@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <045D2BD1-08D3-4FBF-A64D-EC319ABE3FCA@ripon.edu> On Oct 12, 2009, at 5:52 PM, Bob Grumman wrote: > Can anyone come up with an example of such a word whose short > syllable is the one stressed in normal speech? > > --Bob ========== Mike Snyder offered "popcorn," among others. That's one of Pinsky's examples, too. Another is "embittered," where the short vowel of "bit" is more heavily accented than the longer vowel sound in "terred." ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.me.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jfq at myuw.net Mon Oct 12 20:55:41 2009 From: jfq at myuw.net (Jason Quackenbush) Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2009 17:55:41 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: FW: deaf student and scansion In-Reply-To: <841776C1513F46D1B0091887935DEB62@RobinLaptopPC> References: <6768ac830910111728q1231edceke6cc28e714facba1@mail.gmail.com><7db1d01b0910120219v60402aaah4b6c28f9bd4d635f@mail.gmail.com><6768ac830910121505w31f9eafboedbffdd0f9f48c64@mail.gmail.com><6768ac830910121627y264be185k87d64bbd365c63dc@mail.gmail.com> <841776C1513F46D1B0091887935DEB62@RobinLaptopPC> Message-ID: <1F1A31B2-721B-4A78-8375-E0EBF22AA244@myuw.net> Sure. Accent is a function of intonation where certain syllables in a prosodic unit are given additional empahasis through volume, force, pitch etc. Stress is the basic unit of timing in English which is present as the varied emphasis of syllables within a word determined by the pronunciation of that word. Syllable weight has to do with the length of a vowel in a syllable. The interplay between all three of these results in the rhythm of speech. What I take to be the interplay that I think you and Mike argue for in traditional meter is to my ears a artificial imposition of accent onto that underlying system in all speech, and as such is something that can be constructed in spoken poetry in all manner of ways that don't have anything to do with classical prosodic feet or meter. no doubt scansion, which is useless, can exist independent of syllable- accent metrical verse. Indeed I would argue that it must since I think that scansion misses the point of meter completely in its generally clumsy insistence on only two levels of stress and no real attention to intonation or syllable weight. as for whether i'm flogging a straw horse, as far as I can tell you and Mike are still arguing that inherited meters are a valid lens through which to analyze write and understand the rhythm of poetry and as always that's the thesis that is the target of my ire. Shakespeare's sonnets are just so much prettier if you can pay attention to the real prosody of the language as it works in Modern english and don't have to worry about unanswerable questions like what the iambic foot sounded like in Elizabethan estuary English. On Oct 12, 2009, at 5:40 PM, Robin Hamilton wrote: >> The interplay is between accent, syllable weight, & stress, which >> is all the interplay you get out an artificial form superimposed >> on linguistic prosody. Sorry if that wasn't clear. > > I must be dim, Jason, but I completely fail to comprehend the > difference between accent, syllable weight, and stress, and thus how > there could be any interplay between them. > > Unless you mean by two (which?) of those above terms, metrical > stress and speech stress (or accent, or weight), which was what I > think Mike was pointing to. > > (Didn't take long for matters to return to normal with my agreeing > with Mike and disagreeing with you.) > > I think your earlier post also made a stunning conflation of the > (abstract and debatable) mode of scansion, and the activity of > actually writing syllable-accent metrical verse. The two can exist > quite independently of each other. Well, I suppose there wouldn't > be much for metricists to scan if no one had written metrical > poetry, but there, that's the way of things. > > As it is, it seemed to me that you spent most of your post flogging > a straw horse. > > Robin > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Mon Oct 12 21:58:02 2009 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2009 20:58:02 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Stressed In-Reply-To: <70B9110FCBC84BC0B8101CCB988DF6E3@RobinLaptopPC> References: <9BD50A9A-A15A-445D-A76D-6D8AF3956A0B@ripon.edu> <70B9110FCBC84BC0B8101CCB988DF6E3@RobinLaptopPC> Message-ID: <4AD3DEAA.3020803@nut-n-but.net> Robin Hamilton wrote: > << > Would someone explain to me the difference between "accent" and > "stress" in a line of poetry? (or "beat" and "accent," perhaps.) I > understand the difference between duration/quantity and accent/stress, > but it seems some people hear a difference between accent and stress. > Not sure what we're talking about in that case. >>> > > Snap, David -- our thoughts seem to be running in tandem at this present. > > R. Might as well hit the trifecta--I'm with the two of you, too. JASON MUST YIELD!!! --Bob From Rsgwynn1 at cs.com Mon Oct 12 21:00:55 2009 From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com (Rsgwynn1 at cs.com) Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2009 21:00:55 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Stressed Message-ID: In a message dated 10/12/2009 7:40:10 PM Central Daylight Time, grahamd at ripon.edu writes: > > > Would someone explain to me the difference between "accent" and "stress" > in a line of poetry? (or "beat" and "accent," perhaps.) I understand the > difference between duration/quantity and accent/stress, but it seems some > people hear a difference between accent and stress. Not sure what we're > talking about in that case. > > In my own teaching, when I tackle metrical stress I usually end up using > truly dodgy terms like "oomph" to describe accented syllables. They're not > louder or longer, necessarily, I say; they just get more, well, oomph. > > > Still, it is remarkable how hard it is for many students to tell where the > accent goes even in words they know and can pronounce normally. "Which > syllable of 'Henry' do you stress more?" I might ask of a student named > Henry. > > > "Uh. . . . the second?" says Henry. > > > "OK," I then say. "Pronounce your name aloud, please." > > > "HENry," says Henry. > > > "What did you just hear?" I inquire. "Which syllable had more oomph?" > > > "Uh. . . . the second syllable?" says Henry. . . . > > > > > > David, as you well know, all three terms are used interchangeably, more or less as terms that denote syllables that get a stress in a metrical pattern. In a poem that's established itself as iambic pentameter, a word like "improbability" would come out as imPROBaBILiTY, even though we know that only the fourth syllable would get a "real" stress in ordinary speech. The meter, however, heightens the stresses so that a line like "Improbability is what we seek" would work out to a fairly regular iambic pentameter. It's the same case in iambic poems that rhyme "see" with "memory" or "sing" with "frightening." It happens, and has happened, many times. That said, I will repeat what I've said before: visual/graphic scansion is not a very good substitute for what we should hear in a line of verse. And "En-RIH" doesn't speak English unless his folks told him that his name should be pronounced like that, which is fine with me. Reminds me of Tony Dorsett, who shifted the accent of his surname to the right after he became a Cowboy. If you want to be Da-VID Gra-HAM, more power to you. "Fronkenstein," said Gene Wilder. "Sou-say, accent acute on the 'e,'" said W. C. Fields. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jfq at myuw.net Mon Oct 12 21:04:08 2009 From: jfq at myuw.net (Jason Quackenbush) Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2009 18:04:08 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Stressed In-Reply-To: <9BD50A9A-A15A-445D-A76D-6D8AF3956A0B@ripon.edu> References: <9BD50A9A-A15A-445D-A76D-6D8AF3956A0B@ripon.edu> Message-ID: <2C839EDA-884F-47E2-AD7A-7539FA0587EC@myuw.net> Accent is the emphasis placed on certain syllables by the intonation curve of the prosodic unit in which the syllable sits. Stress is inherent to the pronunciation of a word. Accent then is something that modifies stress when words appear as a prosodic unit. For example, the first syllable in the word "super" is stressed. but in the prosodic unit "o wow that's so super" accents might appear on the syllable "that" or "so" or "wow" depending on what how the unit is phrased and what emphasis is given. Generally speaking in written language, accent is often missing and if indicated at all it will be indicated through punctuation and in anycase is usually something that can be inferred by a reader based on the meaning and purpose of the phrase, at least if the piece of writing in which the phrase appears is fairly well written. The interplay bettween stress and accent in particular is that accent generally modifies stress, and the stresses of a word form a sort of frame for the intonation curve of a prosodic unit. On Oct 12, 2009, at 5:39 PM, David Graham wrote: > Would someone explain to me the difference between "accent" and > "stress" in a line of poetry? (or "beat" and "accent," perhaps.) I > understand the difference between duration/quantity and accent/ > stress, but it seems some people hear a difference between accent > and stress. Not sure what we're talking about in that case. > > In my own teaching, when I tackle metrical stress I usually end up > using truly dodgy terms like "oomph" to describe accented > syllables. They're not louder or longer, necessarily, I say; they > just get more, well, oomph. > > Still, it is remarkable how hard it is for many students to tell > where the accent goes even in words they know and can pronounce > normally. "Which syllable of 'Henry' do you stress more?" I might > ask of a student named Henry. > > "Uh. . . . the second?" says Henry. > > "OK," I then say. "Pronounce your name aloud, please." > > "HENry," says Henry. > > "What did you just hear?" I inquire. "Which syllable had more oomph?" > > "Uh. . . . the second syllable?" says Henry. . . . > > > ======================================== > David Graham > grahamd at ripon.edu > > Home Page: > http://web.me.com/drjazz > > Poetry Library: > http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html > ========================================== > > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From Rsgwynn1 at cs.com Mon Oct 12 21:05:23 2009 From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com (Rsgwynn1 at cs.com) Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2009 21:05:23 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Accent vs. duration Message-ID: In a message dated 10/12/2009 7:44:28 PM Central Daylight Time, grahamd at ripon.edu writes: > > > Mike Snyder offered "popcorn," among others. That's one of Pinsky's > examples, too. Another is "embittered," where the short vowel of "bit" is more > heavily accented than the longer vowel sound in "terred." > > > > > Most of the unstressed syllable have the schwa-sound, which is generally in an unstressed position. "Jungle" has basically equivalent vowel sounds. How about "thorough"? schwa and long o. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jfq at myuw.net Mon Oct 12 21:05:37 2009 From: jfq at myuw.net (Jason Quackenbush) Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2009 18:05:37 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Stressed In-Reply-To: <4AD3DEAA.3020803@nut-n-but.net> References: <9BD50A9A-A15A-445D-A76D-6D8AF3956A0B@ripon.edu> <70B9110FCBC84BC0B8101CCB988DF6E3@RobinLaptopPC> <4AD3DEAA.3020803@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <3B0FD66C-130D-4635-8761-C4DE0EE4B5FC@myuw.net> et tu bob? guess i'm an otherstream of one... i'm pretty ok with that tho and shall let my freak flag fly. On Oct 12, 2009, at 6:58 PM, Bob Grumman wrote: > Robin Hamilton wrote: >> << >> Would someone explain to me the difference between "accent" and >> "stress" in a line of poetry? (or "beat" and "accent," perhaps.) >> I understand the difference between duration/quantity and accent/ >> stress, but it seems some people hear a difference between accent >> and stress. Not sure what we're talking about in that case. >>>> >> >> Snap, David -- our thoughts seem to be running in tandem at this >> present. >> >> R. > Might as well hit the trifecta--I'm with the two of you, too. JASON > MUST YIELD!!! > > --Bob > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From mandolin at mikesnider.org Mon Oct 12 21:06:24 2009 From: mandolin at mikesnider.org (Michael Snider) Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2009 21:06:24 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: FW: deaf student and scansion In-Reply-To: References: <6768ac830910111728q1231edceke6cc28e714facba1@mail.gmail.com> <7db1d01b0910120219v60402aaah4b6c28f9bd4d635f@mail.gmail.com> <6768ac830910121505w31f9eafboedbffdd0f9f48c64@mail.gmail.com> <6768ac830910121627y264be185k87d64bbd365c63dc@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <6768ac830910121806l362dba52s15b43531d48e75c0@mail.gmail.com> Fine with me, Jason. Have a nice life. From jfq at myuw.net Mon Oct 12 21:08:11 2009 From: jfq at myuw.net (Jason Quackenbush) Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2009 18:08:11 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Accent vs. duration In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: there's no schwa in thorough the way i pronounce it. it's a short u followed by an o. this is of course a fundamental problem for all discussions such as this. On Oct 12, 2009, at 6:05 PM, Rsgwynn1 at cs.com wrote: > In a message dated 10/12/2009 7:44:28 PM Central Daylight Time, > grahamd at ripon.edu writes: >> >> >> Mike Snyder offered "popcorn," among others. That's one of Pinsky's >> examples, too. Another is "embittered," where the short vowel of >> "bit" is more >> heavily accented than the longer vowel sound in "terred." >> >> >> >> >> > Most of the unstressed syllable have the schwa-sound, which is > generally in > an unstressed position. "Jungle" has basically equivalent vowel > sounds. > How about "thorough"? schwa and long o. > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From grahamd at ripon.edu Mon Oct 12 21:17:32 2009 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2009 20:17:32 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Stressed In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Oct 12, 2009, at 8:00 PM, Rsgwynn1 at cs.com wrote: > David, as you well know, all three terms are used interchangeably, > more or less as terms that denote syllables that get a stress in a > metrical pattern. =========== Yes, that's my understanding. Just reacting to people apparently finding differences among what I consider synonyms (accent, stress, beat). . . without very clearly defining terms, as far as I could tell. I do understand the difference between metrical stress and the actual rhythm of a line that's spoken, with all the variations available due to word length, vowel tone and duration, punctuation, and so forth. The interplay of rhythm and meter is where much of the fun resides in a metrical poem, watching someone masterful like Frost play speech rhythms against metrical patterning and variation. "He gives his harness bells a shake" versus "The only other sound's the sweep"--both identical lines metrically, of course, but rhythmically worlds apart. In the absence of regular meter, free verse poets, it seems to me, often create a similar tension by playing off speech rhythms and the pauses of linebreaks, especially when enjambed. My point in the "Henry" example was just bemusement. Henry does pronounce his name quite normally. Just can't seem to transfer his understanding from his ears and mouth to his mind. Which is a perpetual problem when I teach meter and rhythm. But it's also true that some folks--a couple in every class, in my experience--really have trouble hearing accents, period. ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.me.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Rsgwynn1 at cs.com Mon Oct 12 21:14:33 2009 From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com (Rsgwynn1 at cs.com) Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2009 21:14:33 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Accent vs. duration Message-ID: In a message dated 10/12/2009 8:08:36 PM Central Daylight Time, jfq at myuw.net writes: > > > there's no schwa in thorough the way i pronounce it. it's a short u > followed by an o. > Yes, but a schwa sounds pretty much like a short u, doesn't it? "Im-prob-u-bil-u-ty." Etc. Well, that's kind of what Shaw said about it. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mandolin at mikesnider.org Mon Oct 12 21:22:22 2009 From: mandolin at mikesnider.org (Michael Snider) Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2009 21:22:22 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: FW: deaf student and scansion In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6768ac830910121822v57307635y525a196c1221e50e@mail.gmail.com> The man could cook. On Mon, Oct 12, 2009 at 6:56 PM, wrote: > The long day wanes; the slow moon climbs; the deep > Moans round with many voices. Come, my friends. > 'T is not too late to seek a newer world. > Push off, and sitting well in order smite > The sounding furrows; for my purpose holds > To sail beyond the sunset, and the baths > Of all the western stars, until I die. > > Spondees and and long vowel sounds are prominent in the first line and a > half; after that, shorter vowels and lots of "t" sounds quicken the pace a > bit. > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > From Rsgwynn1 at cs.com Mon Oct 12 21:24:12 2009 From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com (Rsgwynn1 at cs.com) Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2009 21:24:12 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Accent vs. duration Message-ID: http://englishplus.com/grammar/00000383.htm there's no schwa in thorough the way i prUHnounce it. it's a short u followed by an o. this is of course a fundUHmental problUHm for all discussions such as this. +++++++++++++ As you say, it is a problem. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com Mon Oct 12 21:24:07 2009 From: robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com (Robin Hamilton) Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2009 02:24:07 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: FW: deaf student and scansion In-Reply-To: <1F1A31B2-721B-4A78-8375-E0EBF22AA244@myuw.net> References: <6768ac830910111728q1231edceke6cc28e714facba1@mail.gmail.com><7db1d01b0910120219v60402aaah4b6c28f9bd4d635f@mail.gmail.com><6768ac830910121505w31f9eafboedbffdd0f9f48c64@mail.gmail.com><6768ac830910121627y264be185k87d64bbd365c63dc@mail.gmail.com><841776C1513F46D1B0091887935DEB62@RobinLaptopPC> <1F1A31B2-721B-4A78-8375-E0EBF22AA244@myuw.net> Message-ID: <2C31C36630864AA083120E18BE183790@RobinLaptopPC> > Sure. Accent is a function of intonation where certain syllables in a > prosodic unit are given additional empahasis through volume, force, pitch > etc. Stress is the basic unit of timing in English which is present as > the varied emphasis of syllables within a word determined by the > pronunciation of that word. Syllable weight has to do with the length of > a vowel in a syllable. Ah, right -- "accent" is metrical stress, "stress" is speech stress, and "syllable weight" is syllable length. Um ... But put that way, where's the disagreement? (Other than I wouldn't have known what you intended by those three words before you explained your usage in the above paragraph. All three exhibit, even in specialist use, a degree of semantic slippage.) >The interplay between all three of these results in the rhythm of speech. The rhythm of metrical *poetry, surely -- the whole point of what Mike and I are saying is that this isn't identical to natural speech stress. Equally, it isn't identical to the metrical pattern of the poem either. >What I take to be the interplay that I think you and Mike argue for in >traditional meter is to my ears a artificial imposition of accent onto >that underlying system in all speech, and as such is something that can be >constructed in spoken poetry in all manner of ways that don't have >anything to do with classical prosodic feet or meter. The trouble I have with that is that syllable-accent poetry, for better or worse, totally dominated the composition of verse in English between roughly 1580 (at least) and 1912 (at the latest). For about the same length of time, some [sic] poets (not all of whom, we seem to agree, were metricists) were cheerfully analysing it in terms taken from an ealier description of classical quantitative verse. As grammarians were analysing English in terms of the wholly alien grammatical structure of Latin. It worked, sort of, and mostly. > as for whether i'm flogging a straw horse, as far as I can tell you and > Mike are still arguing that inherited meters are a valid lens through > which to analyze write and understand the rhythm of poetry See, you're at it again. "Inherited metres" (sorry, "meters" -- I find the archaism of American spelling difficult to comprehend occasionally) are analysed *by something other than themselves. And I don't remember saying that they were a valid lens to view anything other than themselves. Actually, I think when it comes down to it, most conventional English metrical analysis works best with syllable-accent verse, so it's not even meant to be applied to all metrical systems (think pure-stress, syllabic, qualitative, and dipodic metres), let alone the range of non-metrical modes of writing which emerged in the early twentieth century. > and as always that's the thesis that is the target of my ire. > Shakespeare's sonnets are just so much prettier if you can pay attention > to the real prosody of the language as it works in Modern english and > don't have to worry about unanswerable questions like what the iambic > foot sounded like in Elizabethan estuary English. D'uh!!! I think Robert Graves replied to this better than I could in his analysis of Sonnet 126 in a book called, appropriately enough, _A Survey of Modernist Poetry_. Robin the Straw Dog From Rsgwynn1 at cs.com Mon Oct 12 21:26:37 2009 From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com (Rsgwynn1 at cs.com) Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2009 21:26:37 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Stressed Message-ID: In a message dated 10/12/2009 8:18:03 PM Central Daylight Time, grahamd at ripon.edu writes: > > > My point in the "Henry" example was just bemusement. Henry does pronounce > his name quite normally. Just can't seem to transfer his understanding > from his ears and mouth to his mind. Which is a perpetual problem when I > teach meter and rhythm. But it's also true that some folks--a couple in every > class, in my experience--really have trouble hearing accents, period. > > > I've noticed this as well. I often ask my students if they've had band, > drill team, aerobic, ballroom dance, etc. Those who have usually do better > with meter, which I feel is as much a bodily rhythm as something one can > hear. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jfq at myuw.net Mon Oct 12 21:27:29 2009 From: jfq at myuw.net (Jason Quackenbush) Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2009 18:27:29 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Accent vs. duration In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5CD28FFC-389C-4C62-914C-F0C23E026B39@myuw.net> they're different vowel sounds, albeit close ones. I looked it up to double check and there are distinct IPA symbols for each vowel. the schwa in english is the upside down e, and for the u in the way i pronounce thorough is the funny horseshoe shaped u. On Oct 12, 2009, at 6:14 PM, Rsgwynn1 at cs.com wrote: > In a message dated 10/12/2009 8:08:36 PM Central Daylight Time, > jfq at myuw.net writes: >> >> >> there's no schwa in thorough the way i pronounce it. it's a short u >> followed by an o. >> > Yes, but a schwa sounds pretty much like a short u, doesn't it? > "Im-prob-u-bil-u-ty." Etc. Well, that's kind of what Shaw said > about it. > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From jfq at myuw.net Mon Oct 12 21:31:47 2009 From: jfq at myuw.net (Jason Quackenbush) Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2009 18:31:47 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Accent vs. duration In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: damn my pacific northwest dialect the only schwa i share with that phonetic spelling is the one in fundamental. the e in problem for me is a short "i". the first o in pronounce is a short "e". On Oct 12, 2009, at 6:24 PM, Rsgwynn1 at cs.com wrote: > http://englishplus.com/grammar/00000383.htm > > there's no schwa in thorough the way i prUHnounce it. it's a short u > followed by an o. > > this is of course a fundUHmental problUHm for all discussions such as > this. > > +++++++++++++ > > As you say, it is a problem. > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From jfq at myuw.net Mon Oct 12 22:20:27 2009 From: jfq at myuw.net (Jason Quackenbush) Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2009 19:20:27 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: FW: deaf student and scansion In-Reply-To: <2C31C36630864AA083120E18BE183790@RobinLaptopPC> References: <6768ac830910111728q1231edceke6cc28e714facba1@mail.gmail.com><7db1d01b0910120219v60402aaah4b6c28f9bd4d635f@mail.gmail.com><6768ac830910121505w31f9eafboedbffdd0f9f48c64@mail.gmail.com><6768ac830910121627y264be185k87d64bbd365c63dc@mail.gmail.com><841776C1513F46D1B0091887935DEB62@RobinLaptopPC> <1F1A31B2-721B-4A78-8375-E0EBF22AA244@myuw.net> <2C31C36630864AA083120E18BE183790@RobinLaptopPC> Message-ID: On Oct 12, 2009, at 6:24 PM, Robin Hamilton wrote: >> Sure. Accent is a function of intonation where certain syllables in >> a prosodic unit are given additional empahasis through volume, >> force, pitch etc. Stress is the basic unit of timing in English >> which is present as the varied emphasis of syllables within a word >> determined by the pronunciation of that word. Syllable weight has >> to do with the length of a vowel in a syllable. > > Ah, right -- "accent" is metrical stress, "stress" is speech stress, > and "syllable weight" is syllable length. I don't think i agree that metrical stress is coextensive with intonation. I'm not sure what you mean by "speech stress" but I guess that's fair. And syllable weight is roughly syllable length, but there are some other factors beyond the duration of the vowel sound that come into play. > Um ... But put that way, where's the disagreement? (Other than I > wouldn't have known what you intended by those three words before > you explained your usage in the above paragraph. All three exhibit, > even in specialist use, a degree of semantic slippage.) well, there are disputes, but I think they are primarily semantic and not empirical. at least on my interpretation. > >> The interplay between all three of these results in the rhythm of >> speech. > > The rhythm of metrical *poetry, surely -- the whole point of what > Mike and I are saying is that this isn't identical to natural speech > stress. Equally, it isn't identical to the metrical pattern of the > poem either. no, i mean the rhythm of speech. my thesis is that 1.) all there is is the rhythm of speech and 2.) the metrical pattern of the poem, in the sense of a fixed meter, is an illusion that arises out of an anachronistic commitment to an archaic version of prosody that's been preserved by poets while scientific linguists have long moved on to a more detailed, empirically grounded view of prosody. > >> What I take to be the interplay that I think you and Mike argue >> for in traditional meter is to my ears a artificial imposition of >> accent onto that underlying system in all speech, and as such is >> something that can be constructed in spoken poetry in all manner >> of ways that don't have anything to do with classical prosodic >> feet or meter. > > The trouble I have with that is that syllable-accent poetry, for > better or worse, totally dominated the composition of verse in > English between roughly 1580 (at least) and 1912 (at the latest). > For about the same length of time, some [sic] poets (not all of > whom, we seem to agree, were metricists) were cheerfully analysing > it in terms taken from an ealier description of classical > quantitative verse. As grammarians were analysing English in terms > of the wholly alien grammatical structure of Latin. It worked, sort > of, and mostly. See this is where I think we have our fundamental disagreement because I don't think it worked all that well. If anything it only managed to describe a limited subset of poetic possibilities that while overwhelmingly dominant during that period were not even the exclusive way that people were writing even at the time that traditional scansion was the only game in town. the analytic portion of my thesis is that adopting a modern view of linguistic prosody for analysis doesn't lose anything over traditional scansion and comes with the added benefit of widening metric possibilities and allowing for deeper analysis of the rhythms of speech as manipulated by poets. > >> as for whether i'm flogging a straw horse, as far as I can tell >> you and Mike are still arguing that inherited meters are a valid >> lens through which to analyze write and understand the rhythm of >> poetry > > See, you're at it again. "Inherited metres" (sorry, "meters" -- I > find the archaism of American spelling difficult to comprehend > occasionally) are analysed *by something other than themselves. And > I don't remember saying that they were a valid lens to view anything > other than themselves. Actually, I think when it comes down to it, > most conventional English metrical analysis works best with syllable- > accent verse, so it's not even meant to be applied to all metrical > systems (think pure-stress, syllabic, qualitative, and dipodic > metres), let alone the range of non-metrical modes of writing which > emerged in the early twentieth century. Hm, i'm not sure i follow what you're saying here. willing to restate? > >> and as always that's the thesis that is the target of my ire. >> Shakespeare's sonnets are just so much prettier if you can pay >> attention to the real prosody of the language as it works in >> Modern english and don't have to worry about unanswerable >> questions like what the iambic foot sounded like in Elizabethan >> estuary English. > > D'uh!!! I think Robert Graves replied to this better than I could > in his analysis of Sonnet 126 in a book called, appropriately > enough, _A Survey of Modernist Poetry_. Haven't read it but I'll look it up. But as an illustration: O thou, my lovely boy, who in thy pow'r x / x / x / x / x / Dost hold time?s fickle glass, his sickle hour, x / x / x / x / x / Who hast by waning grown, and therein show?st x / x / x / x / x / Thy lovers withering, as thy sweet self grow?st? x / x / x / x / x / If nature, sovereign mistress over wrack, x / x / x / x / x / As thou goest onwards still will pluck thee back, / x / x / x / x / x / or / x / / x / x / x / She keeps thee to this purpose: that her skill x / x / x / x / x / May time disgrace, and wretched minute kill. x / x / x / x / x / Yet fear her, O thou minion of her pleasure; x / x / x / x / x / / She may detain, but not still keep, her treasure. x / x / x / x / x / / Her audit, though delayed, answered must be, x / x / x / x / x / And her quietus is to render thee. x x / x / x x / x / Which, I mean, ho hum. Pretty much straigh iambic pentameter with a touch of weirdness here and there and i kind of cool four foot line at the end. But using say Corn's two stress method O thou, my lovely boy, who in thy pow'r 2 1 x 1 x 2 x 1 x 2 Dost hold time?s fickle glass, his sickle hour, 2 1 2 1 x 2 x 1 x 2 Who hast by waning grown, and therein show?st 2 1 x 1 x 2 x 1 x 2 Thy lovers withering, as thy sweet self grow?st? 2 1 x 1 x 2 x 1 x 2 If nature, sovereign mistress over wrack, 2 1 x 1 x 2 x 1 x 2 As thou goest onwards still will pluck thee back, 2 1 2 2 x 2 x 1 x 2 She keeps thee to this purpose: that her skill 2 1 x 2 x 2 x 1 x 2 May time disgrace, and wretched minute kill. 2 1 x 2 x 2 x 1 x 2 Yet fear her, O thou minion of her pleasure; 2 1 x 2 x 2 x x x 1 2 She may detain, but not still keep, her treasure. 2 1 x 2 x 2 x 2 x 1 2 Her audit, though delayed, answered must be, 2 1 x 2 2 1 x 1 x 2 And her quietus is to render thee. x x 1 x 2 x x 1 x 2 See how much richer the meter is than traditional scansion allows? This is why i argue against the continued use of such methods and the overly simplistic labeling of a term like "iambic pentameter." From amyhappens at yahoo.com Mon Oct 12 22:41:45 2009 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king) Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2009 19:41:45 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Off topic query -- The Poetics of Hate - "Liberal" New York City -- & oh, Happy Columbus Day, ahem Message-ID: <462866.48379.qm@web83302.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> It can only happen in 'backwards' towns like Laramie, Wyoming? ?Meanwhile, activism leads to comments from liberal friends and their parents like, "Why do I need to see all of this gay?" ?"As long as they don't come on to me!" ?"Keep it to themselves, behind closed doors!" ? The other night in Queens NY, an openly gay man, rather small, out in his neighborhood, went to the local deli for a pack of cigarettes. ?He was beaten nearly to death and is still close to it, in a coma, for the simple fact that he was gay and felt no need to hide it ... ? Today across the US, a second installment of a play, 'The Laramie Project: ?Ten Years Later,' was performed. ?For what? ? What good has national attention to Matthew Shepard's murder achieved ten years ago? ?People are still expressing their malcontent, in a variety of ways, for the very existence of a population that is "not them" by creating legislation that would strip civil rights away. ?By beating people. ?By mocking and asserting statements like those above to position themselves.??By the continued encouragement of hate towards even young GLBT youth.? Unfortunately, the above story is not unusual. ?To be gay in this country still carries a lethal burden in some cases, despite the "progress" people imagine exists, thanks to the mock "visibility" of tv shows like Will and Grace and faux-civil unions. ?Why do gay teens still suicide three times as often as any other teen groups? WHY? ?Is it the need for a common enemy? ?All of the angst to "lock your doors at night" has to be channeled towards a identifiable enemy when terrorists aren't available? ?The scary gays who freely walk the streets buying cigarettes? ? Oh Yeah: ?Our African American President is being called upon to apologize for the European forefathers slaying Native Americans - Happy Columbus Day!-- http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=113728438&ft=1&f=1003 STUFF, for anyone who cares: Gay man gets brutal beating in Queens, left in critical condition?--http://www.nydailynews.com/news/ny_crime/2009/10/12/2009-10-12_gay_man_gets_brutal_beating.html#ixzz0TmuIDub0 The new play, including words from the murderer, Aaron McKinney:http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=113663235&ft=1&f=1003 Judy Shepard on Leonard Lopate --http://www.wnyc.org/shows/lopate/episodes/2009/10/12/segments/142404 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com Mon Oct 12 22:47:21 2009 From: robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com (Robin Hamilton) Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2009 03:47:21 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: FW: deaf student and scansion In-Reply-To: References: <6768ac830910111728q1231edceke6cc28e714facba1@mail.gmail.com><7db1d01b0910120219v60402aaah4b6c28f9bd4d635f@mail.gmail.com><6768ac830910121505w31f9eafboedbffdd0f9f48c64@mail.gmail.com><6768ac830910121627y264be185k87d64bbd365c63dc@mail.gmail.com><841776C1513F46D1B0091887935DEB62@RobinLaptopPC><1F1A31B2-721B-4A78-8375-E0EBF22AA244@myuw.net><2C31C36630864AA083120E18BE183790@RobinLaptopPC> Message-ID: <19CF74BE8E0B4E27979EB0D0FCC7E680@RobinLaptopPC> Jason, more at more length later if I have the brain for it, but just quickly -- How would your system of scansion deal with the second line in Marvell's couplet: Annihilating all that's made To a green thought in a green shade. I'd scan the second line: X X / / X X / / You? This is a real question -- I find your system of scansion baroque and overcomplicated, verging [for me] on the incomprehensible, while for all its faults, I've found "traditional" scansion can [though I have to admit, very rarely] sometimes illuminate. The Marvell couplet was for me a case in point, as was what drove me to metrics in the first place (late in life, after the age of thirty), being asked why Wyatt had the line, "Hath taught me to set in trifles no store" in his sonnet beginning, 'Farewell, Love, and all thy laws, forever ..." Robin From Rsgwynn1 at cs.com Mon Oct 12 22:51:11 2009 From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com (Rsgwynn1 at cs.com) Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2009 22:51:11 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: FW: deaf student and scansion Message-ID: In a message dated 10/12/2009 9:20:53 PM Central Daylight Time, jfq at myuw.net writes: > > And her quietus is to render thee. > x x 1 x 2 x x 1 x 2 xx x1 x2 x1 x1 Error here? You have "quietus" getting a strong stress on the first syllable. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jfq at myuw.net Mon Oct 12 23:21:18 2009 From: jfq at myuw.net (Jason Quackenbush) Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2009 20:21:18 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: FW: deaf student and scansion In-Reply-To: <19CF74BE8E0B4E27979EB0D0FCC7E680@RobinLaptopPC> References: <6768ac830910111728q1231edceke6cc28e714facba1@mail.gmail.com><7db1d01b0910120219v60402aaah4b6c28f9bd4d635f@mail.gmail.com><6768ac830910121505w31f9eafboedbffdd0f9f48c64@mail.gmail.com><6768ac830910121627y264be185k87d64bbd365c63dc@mail.gmail.com><841776C1513F46D1B0091887935DEB62@RobinLaptopPC><1F1A31B2-721B-4A78-8375-E0EBF22AA244@myuw.net><2C31C36630864AA083120E18BE183790@RobinLaptopPC> <19CF74BE8E0B4E27979EB0D0FCC7E680@RobinLaptopPC> Message-ID: <7D53B285-2AF4-438A-A5C2-BF19BAF6824A@myuw.net> I prefer a four valued system rather than Corn's 3 valued, albeit i think the 3 valued system is adequate to a great many tasks because most of the time the diffrence between tertiary stress and unstressed syllables is very subtle and not nearly so glaring as the difference between primary and secondary stress. Incidentally, I think that glaring difference is what throws most people off when they are trying to learn traditional scansion: there's clearly a difference between primary and secondary stresses and there's clearly a difference between secondary stress and unstressed syllables. But traditional scansion only lets you describe a secondary stress as either stressed or unstressed and so depending on context the same level of stress can be analyzed as two different things. Neither being satisfactory in any case because it's a third quality, and I think many people get confused by this and presume that the error is theirs when in fact the error is in the notation. But anyway, that line, which is lovely btw, is a good example of when tertiary stress plays a role. I'd scan the second line of that couplet X x 1 2||X x 1 2 the capital Xs being tertiary stresses. I like to think in terms of two levels of stressed and two levels of unstressed syllables in my own writing which is why I use that notation. I feel a strong urge to read this with a caesura ( || ) after "thought" but it's nicer without it I think since if you read it straight through the terminal "t" of thought blends into "in" creating the impression that the second repetition of the pattern begins with the same consonant as the first. It's a nice sort of stealth alliteration. I fully admit that its a more complicated paradigm to work with, but for me it much more adequately captures what i hear, in this case a sort of rolling rhythm which can be seen by the descending stresses into an unstressed syllable then jumping up and settling down again. My problem with x x / / x x / / is that looks to me to be something that sounds like morse code. dit dit DAH DAH dit dit DAH DAH, which, to my subvocalization sounds completely wrong. And yet I think you're correct that that's how traditional scansion has to analyze it and as a result there is a subtlety in the rhythm that is missed. just for grins, the first line I'd scan X 1 x 2 X 1 x 2 which is nicely symmetrical with the following line X x 1 2||X x 1 2 in a way that I think x / x / x / x / is not symmetrical with x x / /||x x / / Both are interesting, I'll grant you. The traditional count shows the movement of the first and third stresses maybe a bit more immediately. But I think its clear in both versions that the stresses on the second and third syllables are reversed. What I like about my version in addition is it shows that each line in addition to being symetrical with the other line is also symmetrical with itself, which I think explains the temptations to see caesura where probably there isn't. but that in itself is a nice tension. On Oct 12, 2009, at 7:47 PM, Robin Hamilton wrote: > Jason, more at more length later if I have the brain for it, but > just quickly -- > > How would your system of scansion deal with the second line in > Marvell's couplet: > > Annihilating all that's made > To a green thought in a green shade. > > I'd scan the second line: > > X X / / X X / / > > You? > > This is a real question -- I find your system of scansion baroque > and overcomplicated, verging [for me] on the incomprehensible, while > for all its faults, I've found "traditional" scansion can [though I > have to admit, very rarely] sometimes illuminate. > > The Marvell couplet was for me a case in point, as was what drove me > to metrics in the first place (late in life, after the age of > thirty), being asked why Wyatt had the line, "Hath taught me to set > in trifles no store" in his sonnet beginning, 'Farewell, Love, and > all thy laws, forever ..." > > Robin > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From jfq at myuw.net Mon Oct 12 23:33:55 2009 From: jfq at myuw.net (Jason Quackenbush) Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2009 20:33:55 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: FW: deaf student and scansion In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Yah, it's a hard word for me to scan primarily because i have a bad habit of mispronouncing it, but that line should be x x 2 1 2 2 x 1 x 2 or maybe better x x X 1 2 X x 1 x 2 it's a tough line to suss out. but then it's also a weird poem. On Oct 12, 2009, at 7:51 PM, Rsgwynn1 at cs.com wrote: > In a message dated 10/12/2009 9:20:53 PM Central Daylight Time, > jfq at myuw.net writes: >> >> And her quietus is to render thee. >> x x 1 x 2 x x 1 x 2 > > xx x1 x2 x1 x1 > > Error here? You have "quietus" getting a strong stress on the first > syllable. > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From halvard at gmail.com Tue Oct 13 00:02:56 2009 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2009 23:02:56 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: FW: deaf student and scansion In-Reply-To: <4AD3D5C9.5090105@nut-n-but.net> References: <46F2CD7A5B96441FA3A51C8F25944AC9@RobinLaptopPC> <4AD3B321.6020805@nut-n-but.net> <6768ac830910121541o4d240220o8f8b2545d3b8279@mail.gmail.com> <4AD3D5C9.5090105@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: Tell it to Tallulah, dahling. Hal "Lists are a form of cultural hysteria." --Don DeLillo Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org On Mon, Oct 12, 2009 at 8:20 PM, Bob Grumman wrote: > Michael Snider wrote: > >> darling always open primeval popcorn ardent mustard theocracy >> decision quintessence tumescence >> >> > Thanks, Mike. But I see "darling" as two syllables of equal length, "dar" > and "ling." Although the second is longer according to my preliminary > definition. Ditto the syllables in "theocracy"--and my concern was with > two-syllable words only. "Popcorn" seems to me two strong beats. "always," > "open" and "ardent" seem to refute my premise, though. > >> seems more common on the first or second syllable - of course, one of >> the two will take at least some stress in English. >> >> not many have the major accent on the third syllable - 'admiration' >> does, though I'm not sure it meets your criteria of 'smallest,' since >> only the 'tion' is longer, and those kinds of part-of-speech changing >> endings never get the accent. >> > Yes, my immediate thought when I saw some of your words was that there may > be a rule, or some small number of rules, that takes care of the words whose > long syllable does not take the stress. > >> Oh - 'never' and 'accent.' >> >> > Yeah, yeah, pour it on! > > and that's the kind of thing metrical poets do - collect words to fit >> in various metrical contexts. >> >> Here's one that breaks the usual pattern of alternating within-word >> stress: 'literature' >> >> >> > Aye. I hope I'm not dopey enough to make a Serious Study of this, but if I > do, I'll segregate words of different numbers of syllables from each other. > > > On Mon, Oct 12, 2009 at 6:52 PM, Bob Grumman >> wrote: >> >> >>> This discussion and/or maybe recent ones on the subject made me realize I >>> had never thought about syllable-length. So I did, and it seems to me >>> that >>> if a word of two syllables (in English) has one short syllable and one >>> clearly longer (defined for me as literally longer, like the "thir" of >>> "thirty"), the longer gets the stress. Is this a general rule? Can >>> anyone >>> come up with an example of such a word whose short syllable is the one >>> stressed in normal speech? >>> >>> --Bob >>> >> > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From junction at earthlink.net Tue Oct 13 01:27:13 2009 From: junction at earthlink.net (Mark Weiss) Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2009 01:27:13 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: FW: deaf student and scansion In-Reply-To: <4AD3B321.6020805@nut-n-but.net> References: <6768ac830910111455q18625233x3f 0114e2b59e8786@mail.gmail.com> <46F2CD7A5B96441FA3A51C8F25944AC9@RobinLaptopPC> <4AD3B321.6020805@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: English. Action. Scissor. Simple. Wasteful. etc. At 06:52 PM 10/12/2009, you wrote: >This discussion and/or maybe recent ones on the subject made me >realize I had never thought about syllable-length. So I did, and it >seems to me that if a word of two syllables (in English) has one >short syllable and one clearly longer (defined for me as literally >longer, like the "thir" of "thirty"), the longer gets the >stress. Is this a general rule? Can anyone come up with an example >of such a word whose short syllable is the one stressed in normal speech? > >--Bob > >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry Announcing The Whole Island: Six Decades of Cuban Poetry (University of California Press). Forthcoming in November 2009 2009. To read more go to: http://go.ucpress.edu/WholeIsland "The Whole Island is a masterwork of cartography: a map of what is, for English-language readers, an almost unexplored territory, full of poets--at home and in the diaspora--whom we ought to know." -Eliot Weinberger "A definitive anthology guiding curious poets, literary scholars and teachers, and generations of readers out of the shadow of ignorant, imperialist 'lockdown' surrounding the breadth and power of Cuban poetry. [Weiss] provides a salient, comprehensive introduction covering the fascinating vidas of individual poets, literary movements, political exigencies, and the vicissitudes of an ongoing cultural struggle. But the imagination of the poetry rules. What emerges is an essential compendium to world literature. Presente!" -Anne Waldman From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Tue Oct 13 07:47:53 2009 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2009 06:47:53 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: FW: deaf student and scansion In-Reply-To: References: <6768ac830910111455q18625233x3f 0114e2b59e8786@mail.gmail.com><46F2CD7A5B96441FA3A51C8F25944AC9@RobinLaptopPC><4AD3B321.6020805@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <4AD468E9.3070902@nut-n-but.net> Mark Weiss wrote: > English. Action. Scissor. Simple. Wasteful. etc. Last three, for me, are short, short. I'm thinking, with Mike, that "tion" is an exception in never being stressed even when the longest syllable in a word. "(consonant)ing," the same. "English," yes, by my definition--but to my ear it's two short. The "ng" is a lengthener. But I am convinced my thought is wrong. Curious that I couldn't think of any word that refuted it at the time. I think I simply hadn't used such a word while writing right then, and used them as my only (quick) sample, found no refuters, so published my results prematurely. --Bob From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Tue Oct 13 07:57:58 2009 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2009 06:57:58 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Stressed In-Reply-To: <3B0FD66C-130D-4635-8761-C4DE0EE4B5FC@myuw.net> References: <9BD50A9A-A15A-445D-A76D-6D8AF3956A0B@ripon.edu><70B9110FCBC84BC0B8101CCB988DF6E3@RobinLaptopPC><4AD3DEAA.3020803@nut -n-but.net> <3B0FD66C-130D-4635-8761-C4DE0EE4B5FC@myuw.net> Message-ID: <4AD46B46.9020801@nut-n-but.net> Jason Quackenbush wrote: > et tu bob? > > guess i'm an otherstream of one... > > i'm pretty ok with that tho and shall let my freak flag fly. Good. To clarify, because I have been in and out of this discussion and probably don't know exactly what you and others have been saying, I simply think accent, stress and beat are all the same thing. For purposes of meter, stress is binary. But for intricate sub-meter or rhythm, it's variable. I think meter can be a wonderful tool, but is not a necessity for a poem. I can't see how it is in any way obsolete, or ever will. Sensitivity to heavy/weak beats, it seems to me, is innate--our nervous system, I claim, is triggered by heavy/weak the way it is by black/white--or dark/light. Which doesn't mean we aren't also by nature sensitive to varieties of stress as we are to varieties of dark. --Bob From seamascain at gmail.com Tue Oct 13 13:40:17 2009 From: seamascain at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?S=E9amas_Cain?=) Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2009 12:40:17 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] In neo-bhakti spontaneity Message-ID: <6f1e9ee40910131040i5031e264qb580ccb3f43d9b62@mail.gmail.com> _______________ SALMON POETRY (of Knockeven at the Cliffs of Moher in County Clare, Ireland) invites you to celebrate the publication of "Uttering Her Name" by the Irish poet Gabriel Rosenstock http://www.salmonpoetry.com/uttering.html The event will take place on Thursday the 15th of October at 6:30 p.m. in The Unitarian Church, 112 West St. Stephen?s Green, Dublin 2, Ireland. "Uttering Her Name" consists of spontaneous, ecstatic utterances in a neo-bhakti style, that is to say a modern slant on those poems of intense devotion which are still read and chanted in India today. David Butler, in Poetry Ireland Review, wrote: "With more than one hundred books to his name, Rosenstock has set himself up as something of a Gaelic shaman, as likely to invoke Buddha or Xolotl as any chthonic Celtic deity." P?draig de Paor, in Poetry International, wrote: "Rosenstock is so famously difficult to pin down, that one is slow to try to describe him at all. Indeed, this foxy elusiveness may be his defining feature." Gabriel Rosenstock has authored more than 160 books! "Uttering Her Name" is his d?but volume in English. To purchase the book, go to ... http://www.salmonpoetry.com/uttering.html For additional information, go to ... http://www.salmonpoetry.com/ Questions may be sent to ... info at salmonpoetry.com In neo-bhakti spontaneity, S?amas Cain http://seamascain.writernetwork.com _______________ From ccooley at overdomain.com Tue Oct 13 17:52:34 2009 From: ccooley at overdomain.com (Crisman Cooley) Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2009 14:52:34 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Eliot #1 Message-ID: Hi Sam, I keep trying to hate TS Eliot, but every time I make any progress, I read his poems and he *gains* ground. I'm wondering if you can explain what you believe is "crummy" about "Sweeney Among the Nightingales". Forget other Eliot poems for a moment and just look at this one poem in the context, say, of New (American) Poetry. And now I'm wondering: can you tell me just one poem written in the last fifty years that has as much 1. drama 2. horror 3. mythic resonance 4. and cleverness as this one? Tell me one and I swear I'll buy the book. In all sincerity, Crisman Date: Fri, 9 Oct 2009 10:21:49 -0700 > From: "Rachel Loden" > Subject: RE: [New-Poetry] Eliot #1 > To: "'NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views'" > > Message-ID: <38B8DCA77AFD48EE97BFFF6058843904 at GlassCastle> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > The Telegraph story is here: > > > http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/books/6272012/T.S-Eliot-named-favourite-p > oet.html > > but still no poems. In any case, I agree with you that "Sweeney Among the > Nightingales" is a strange poem to pick when advocating for Eliot. > > I can't call it "crummy," though, since it makes my blood run cold. > > Rachel > > Sam wrote: > > < Thought > it was the original one in the Telegraph but got a blank page when I > clicked > on the link. Anyway, it gave me the impression that he was #1 because (not > in spite of) "Sweeney" just as Kipling's "If--" was cited in that poll a > few > years ago as the UK's favorite poem.>> > > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mandolin at mikesnider.org Tue Oct 13 23:50:41 2009 From: mandolin at mikesnider.org (Michael Snider) Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2009 23:50:41 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Just saw the Pleiades for the first time this fall Message-ID: <6768ac830910132050u1eb59c75v84d5e92be7ee27b1@mail.gmail.com> My great-grandmother's maiden name was Stella Baird - "star singer" - and she used to rock me to sleep reciting Whitman, Longfellow, Lanier, Tennyson, and Scott. I tried to write a sci-fi epic featuring her as the lost sister. This is all that has survivied: There rise the rain-bringing Sisters, And there follows the Black Bull Whose horns hold black nothing, and light So old and heavy it seems full Of nothing, and nothing in me Answers with its own night, Answers with my own dying fall. Willow, wake and weep Earth, my body keep Too long since I dreamed of flying, That wide ringing, that clear burst That carried me, and carried?how Was it lost? How was I cursed, And once cursed, did I live, content Beneath the willow bough, Between the willow and the earth? Willow, wake and weep Earth, my body keep I know no willow ever wept, And stars shape only black space, I know the earth keeps maggots best? There's no love in its embrace. My dreams are nothing in this world But by this world possessed, But for this earth I sing this last? Willow, wake and weep Earth, my body keep Published long ago in The Louisville Review From uche at ogbuji.net Wed Oct 14 00:34:57 2009 From: uche at ogbuji.net (Uche Ogbuji) Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2009 22:34:57 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Just saw the Pleiades for the first time this fall In-Reply-To: <6768ac830910132050u1eb59c75v84d5e92be7ee27b1@mail.gmail.com> References: <6768ac830910132050u1eb59c75v84d5e92be7ee27b1@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: This is a very, very fine piece. Thanks for sharing. Seven for the seven sisters... Six for the six proud walkers... Five for the symbol at your door... Four for the four wind makers... Three three the rivals... Two two the lily-white boys, dressed all in green oh! One is one and all alone and ever more shall be so. --Uche On Tue, Oct 13, 2009 at 9:50 PM, Michael Snider wrote: > My great-grandmother's maiden name was Stella Baird - "star singer" - > and she used to rock me to sleep reciting Whitman, Longfellow, Lanier, > Tennyson, and Scott. I tried to write a sci-fi epic featuring her as > the lost sister. This is all that has survivied: > > There rise the rain-bringing Sisters, > And there follows the Black Bull > Whose horns hold black nothing, and light > So old and heavy it seems full > Of nothing, and nothing in me > Answers with its own night, > Answers with my own dying fall. > > > Willow, wake and weep > Earth, my body keep > > Too long since I dreamed of flying, > That wide ringing, that clear burst > That carried me, and carried?how > Was it lost? How was I cursed, > And once cursed, did I live, content > Beneath the willow bough, > Between the willow and the earth? > > > Willow, wake and weep > Earth, my body keep > > I know no willow ever wept, > And stars shape only black space, > I know the earth keeps maggots best? > There's no love in its embrace. > My dreams are nothing in this world > But by this world possessed, > But for this earth I sing this last? > > > Willow, wake and weep > Earth, my body keep > > > Published long ago in The Louisville Review > -- Uche Ogbuji http://uche.ogbuji.net Founding Partner, Zepheira http://zepheira.com Linked-in profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/ucheogbuji Articles: http://uche.ogbuji.net/tech/publications/ Friendfeed: http://friendfeed.com/uche Twitter: http://twitter.com/uogbuji Join me at Balisage: * http://www.balisage.net/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com Wed Oct 14 00:45:10 2009 From: robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com (Robin Hamilton) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2009 05:45:10 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Just saw the Pleiades for the first time this fall In-Reply-To: References: <6768ac830910132050u1eb59c75v84d5e92be7ee27b1@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <625C9CD62DF74121A4955C6C93299E69@RobinLaptopPC> Seven for the seven sisters... Six for the six proud walkers... Five for the symbol at your door... Four for the four wind makers... Three three the rivals... Two two the lily-white boys, dressed all in green oh! One is one and all alone and ever more shall be so. --Uche Hey, Uche, that's the Dilly Song! (Well, it becomes that later.) Somewhere I have about forty pages of a write-up on this. Now exactly why are the lily-white boys dressed all in green, oh? Robin -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Wed Oct 14 09:33:11 2009 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2009 15:33:11 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] from the Almanac Message-ID: <4b65c2d70910140633i5dced174m9c13a13e9839ccc4@mail.gmail.com> i like my body by E. E. Cummings i like my body when it is with your body. It is so quite a new thing. Muscles better and nerves more. i like your body. i like what it does, i like its hows. i like to feel the spine of your body and its bones, and the trembling -firm-smooth ness and which I will again and again and again kiss, i like kissing this and that of you, i like, slowly stroking the, shocking fuzz of your electric fur, and what-is-it comes over parting flesh...And eyes big love-crumbs, and possibly i like the thrill of under me you quite so new "i like my body" by e.e. cummings from *Complete Poems 1904-1962*. ? Liveright Publishing, 1991. Reprinted with permission. (buy now) -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From uche at ogbuji.net Wed Oct 14 11:21:28 2009 From: uche at ogbuji.net (Uche Ogbuji) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2009 09:21:28 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Just saw the Pleiades for the first time this fall In-Reply-To: <625C9CD62DF74121A4955C6C93299E69@RobinLaptopPC> References: <6768ac830910132050u1eb59c75v84d5e92be7ee27b1@mail.gmail.com> <625C9CD62DF74121A4955C6C93299E69@RobinLaptopPC> Message-ID: On Tue, Oct 13, 2009 at 10:45 PM, Robin Hamilton < robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com> wrote: > Seven for the seven sisters... > Six for the six proud walkers... > Five for the symbol at your door... > Four for the four wind makers... > Three three the rivals... > Two two the lily-white boys, dressed all in green oh! > One is one and all alone and ever more shall be so. > > --Uche > Hey, Uche, that's the Dilly Song! (Well, it becomes that later.) > Somewhere I have about forty pages of a write-up on this. > > Now exactly why are the lily-white boys dressed all in green, oh? > Well, my favorite lunatic mythographer (which is to say favorite mythographer) Robert Graves says the two boys are the oak, which is the sacred tree of the waxing year (i.e. Bel or belenos, the Robin, "o light one bright one") who carries the green of fecundity and fertility through to the blood moon, and the holly, or the evergreen oak (i.e. Bran, the Wren), who carries the precious green, and thus the promise of continued life and regeneration, through winter. Both are clothed all in green as guardians of life and livelihood, despite their very different natures. -- Uche Ogbuji http://uche.ogbuji.net Founding Partner, Zepheira http://zepheira.com Linked-in profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/ucheogbuji Articles: http://uche.ogbuji.net/tech/publications/ Friendfeed: http://friendfeed.com/uche Twitter: http://twitter.com/uogbuji Join me at Balisage: * http://www.balisage.net/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From uche at ogbuji.net Wed Oct 14 11:47:05 2009 From: uche at ogbuji.net (Uche Ogbuji) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2009 09:47:05 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Robert Graves Message-ID: Since I mentioned my favorite lunatic mythographer, and one of my favorite poets, Robert Graves, here's my tribute poem to him: Robert Graves Gay Mallorca...sultry humor... Mucid waters...leaking barge, His poise above his curling sheafs Speaks details he'll well soon enlarge. His nose, itself a full profile, Is magnet pole on lettered chaff: Punctilious tapping pencil tip Conducts fine notes about the staff. Yeats gushed of Caesar's great war But Graves knew Civilization's flaw; His mind moved on such irony-- The lengthened legs of Caesar's law. Legend born imperator Wound up to Clau-clau-claudius: Vercingetorix' righteousness Soon turned, itself, imperious. While rampaging church militant Wrenched god from fibre, flesh and toil, Banished craft to favor art, Precious smelt supplanting soil. For old-world souls, Graves's oeuvre Was rescuing Welsh bardic lore: For Byzantines had drilled the craft Excising its daemonic core. Joyce preferred his "Biddy" puns And sought through Anna Plurabelle What Graves fought for more openly-- Rosetti's Blessed Damozel Divorced from Young Christ Dilettante: Brigid in her proper place All nature in her proper care, All artifice wrought through her grace. To preach of Eve Promethean Involved the starchest upper lip Or shell-shocked second infancy In a long-chinned woman's grip. The lengthened shade his father made Held T.E. Shaw of Araby; Thus schooled, Graves held up Israel's gods To yam rites in New Guinea. Graves knew Civilization's strength: Hellenic generosity: Though spasms over Goths and Turks Sapped Herodotus' legacy. Graves knew Civilization's strength: The order Latin gives the line To marshal all the thicket tropes That mark our spirits' thermocline. Burdened with a thankless task-- Restoring pantheistic truth To all the Classics Milton turned Distraction from the Church's youth-- He bent his rugger player's nerve To ancient horrors, ancient joys; And scraped like teeth on skreaking edge A poet's case for equipoise. Indeed, the dross of greedy scholars Crumbled from his scouring sight (A liberty *The Golden Ass* Reflects under a cheeky light). Tyrant laureate descried Through lore and long adulteries, Not readily forgiven by Rivals reft of luxuries. Uche Irving, TX June 1996 -- Uche Ogbuji http://uche.ogbuji.net Founding Partner, Zepheira http://zepheira.com Linked-in profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/ucheogbuji Articles: http://uche.ogbuji.net/tech/publications/ Friendfeed: http://friendfeed.com/uche Twitter: http://twitter.com/uogbuji Join me at Balisage: * http://www.balisage.net/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com Wed Oct 14 13:15:10 2009 From: robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com (Robin Hamilton) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2009 18:15:10 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Just saw the Pleiades for the first time this fall In-Reply-To: References: <6768ac830910132050u1eb59c75v84d5e92be7ee27b1@mail.gmail.com><625C9CD62DF74121A4955C6C93299E69@RobinLaptopPC> Message-ID: <6FAD3A3A1A304BF38F61103ADC137944@RobinLaptopPC> Now exactly why are the lily-white boys dressed all in green, oh? Well, my favorite lunatic mythographer (which is to say favorite mythographer) Robert Graves says the two boys are the oak, which is the sacred tree of the waxing year (i.e. Bel or belenos, the Robin, "o light one bright one") who carries the green of fecundity and fertility through to the blood moon, and the holly, or the evergreen oak (i.e. Bran, the Wren), who carries the precious green, and thus the promise of continued life and regeneration, through winter. Both are clothed all in green as guardians of life and livelihood, despite their very different natures. -- Uche Ogbuji There's an entire line of interpretation of the poem that tries to fit it into wicca!!! But I don't think it works, as an extremely high number of references, even from the earliest versions -- "the Four Gospel Makers" as Matthew, Mark, Luke and John, for example -- are specifically Christian. Thus most plausible the Two Lily-White Boys (a phrase later taken up by Auden and Charles Causley) are Jesus and John the Baptist. But still the problem (which the Graves interpretation tries to solve) of the reference to green. I'll see if I can find my original piece and remind myself of what I thought. Robin -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com Wed Oct 14 13:23:11 2009 From: robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com (Robin Hamilton) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2009 18:23:11 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Just saw the Pleiades for the first time this fall In-Reply-To: <6FAD3A3A1A304BF38F61103ADC137944@RobinLaptopPC> References: <6768ac830910132050u1eb59c75v84d5e92be7ee27b1@mail.gmail.com><625C9CD62DF74121A4955C6C93299E69@RobinLaptopPC> <6FAD3A3A1A304BF38F61103ADC137944@RobinLaptopPC> Message-ID: <5BC61C1816974370AAE64C4163186AC7@RobinLaptopPC> << I'll see if I can find my original piece and remind myself of what I thought. Robin >> ... or thought I thought I thought. Here's what I once thought were the range of possibilities: " TWO, TWO, THE LILY-WHITE BOYS (BABES): - Alt: Two are the Christmas babes in green - God and Jesus - Or: Jesus Christ and John the Baptist - Or: James and John, who didn't deny Christ - Or: the constellation Gemini (the twins) (a sign of spring?) [Cf. Graves, The White Goddess] [The holly and the Ivy] " Enough. (I'll include a full Set of Twelve below, so it can be ignored if nevessary. Robin ************************************************************************ EXPLANATIONS: ONE IS ONE AND ALL ALONE: - God, or Jesus Christ TWO, TWO, THE LILY-WHITE BOYS (BABES): - Alt: Two are the Christmas babes in green - God and Jesus - Or: Jesus Christ and John the Baptist - Or: James and John, who didn't deny Christ - Or: the constellation Gemini (the twins) (a sign of spring?) [Cf. Graves, The White Goddess] [The holly and the Ivy] THREE, THREE, THE RIVALS: - The Trinity (God, Jesus, The Holy Ghost) - This explanation does not explain the term "rivals" - Or: Peter, James, and John - They argued about who would be the greatest in Heaven - Alt: Three are the three that's in Bethlehem (Jesus, Mary, Joseph) [The Three Magi - the 'arrivals' (also rivals?) at the birth of Jesus.] FOUR FOR THE GOSPEL MAKERS: - The four evangelists (Matthew, Mark, Luke, & John) - Alt: Four, the carolers at your door (Christmas) FIVE FOR THE SYMBOLS AT YOUR DOOR: - The five books of Moses - Or: a pentagram, a common motif on doorposts (why?) - Or: The Greek symbols spelling "Icthys" - The fish was a code symbol for early Christians - Alt: Five for the oxen standing by (Christmas) ["possibly the Hebraic pentagon... but possibly the five wounds of Christ." - page ] [Or the symbol - possibly a pentagram - painted on doors by the Children of Israel to ward off the plagues inflicted on Egypt.] SIX FOR THE SIX PROUD WALKERS: - "Walkers" may be a corruption of "waters" - The six water-pots used in the miracle of Cana - Where Jesus changed water into wine at a wedding - Alt: The Charming Waiters - Alt: The six that never did mix (?) [Or the Wise and/or Foolish Virgins - except that they were seven.] SEVEN FOR THE SEVEN STARS IN THE SKY: - The seven stars in the constellation Ursa Major (The Big Dipper) - Or: the seven visible stars in the constellation Pleiades [the Great Bear or the planets - page ] EIGHT FOR THE APRIL RAINERS: - The constellation Hyades (eight stars) - Also called "The Rainy Hyades" - Rise heliacally with the sun in the month of Arpil - Or: Gabriel and the Archangels NINE FOR THE NINE BRIGHT SHINERS: - The Muses (does not fit with biblical or astronomical theme) - Suggests another constellation (The Pleiades?) [either the orders of Angels or the joys of Mary - page ] [Or the nine ranks of angels in the Celestial Hierarchy {as first promulgated by the Pseudo-Dionysus}.] TEN FOR THE TEN COMMANDMENTS: - Obvious ELEVEN FOR THE ELEVEN WHO WENT TO HEAVEN" - The eleven apostles minus Judas TWELVE FOR THE TWELVE APOSTLES: - Obvious From uche at ogbuji.net Wed Oct 14 13:41:23 2009 From: uche at ogbuji.net (Uche Ogbuji) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2009 11:41:23 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Just saw the Pleiades for the first time this fall In-Reply-To: <6FAD3A3A1A304BF38F61103ADC137944@RobinLaptopPC> References: <6768ac830910132050u1eb59c75v84d5e92be7ee27b1@mail.gmail.com> <625C9CD62DF74121A4955C6C93299E69@RobinLaptopPC> <6FAD3A3A1A304BF38F61103ADC137944@RobinLaptopPC> Message-ID: On Wed, Oct 14, 2009 at 11:15 AM, Robin Hamilton < robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com> wrote: > > > Now exactly why are the lily-white boys dressed all in green, oh? >> > > Well, my favorite lunatic mythographer (which is to say favorite > mythographer) Robert Graves says the two boys are the oak, which is the > sacred tree of the waxing year (i.e. Bel or belenos, the Robin, "o light one > bright one") who carries the green of fecundity and fertility through to the > blood moon, and the holly, or the evergreen oak (i.e. Bran, the Wren), who > carries the precious green, and thus the promise of continued life and > regeneration, through winter. Both are clothed all in green as guardians of > life and livelihood, despite their very different natures. > > > -- > Uche Ogbuji > > There's an entire line of interpretation of the > poem that tries to fit it into wicca!!! But I don't think it works, as an > extremely high number of references, even from the earliest versions -- "the > Four Gospel Makers" as Matthew, Mark, Luke and John, for example -- are > specifically Christian. > > Yes, I'm familiar with the Christian interpretation, and with the long-standing debate as to which came first, the pagan (I wouldn't say Wiccan, because it's much broader than what's been assembled into modern Wicca) or Christian versions. The Christian exegesis is no more coherent nor compelling than the Pagan one, and I think there is no reason for folks to not just adopt that which they prefer. Which is why I started my response with "Well, my favorite..." > Thus most plausible the Two Lily-White Boys (a phrase later taken up by > Auden and Charles Causley) are Jesus and John the Baptist. > > I've heard this, but I do not find this plausible. Mysterious quantities were very important in the early church, and the pairing of John and Jesus in this way would have been patently heretical. Such heresies were usually overlooked only as part of a campaign to co-opt pagan beliefs (e.g. the idolatrous symbology of Chrismas trees), which makes me believe the pagan predated the Christian here. Bel and Bran as the dueling boy-kings of the year is extremely orthodox in the pagan universe across Europe and the Middle East (it's actually traced to Babylonia and beyond). > But still the problem (which the Graves interpretation tries to solve) of > the reference to green. > > Graves takes his symbol-chasing to extremes, but his bases are very sound, mythographically. -- Uche Ogbuji http://uche.ogbuji.net Founding Partner, Zepheira http://zepheira.com Linked-in profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/ucheogbuji Articles: http://uche.ogbuji.net/tech/publications/ Friendfeed: http://friendfeed.com/uche Twitter: http://twitter.com/uogbuji Join me at Balisage: * http://www.balisage.net/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com Wed Oct 14 14:05:44 2009 From: robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com (Robin Hamilton) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2009 19:05:44 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Just saw the Pleiades for the first time this fall In-Reply-To: References: <6768ac830910132050u1eb59c75v84d5e92be7ee27b1@mail.gmail.com><625C9CD62DF74121A4955C6C93299E69@RobinLaptopPC><6FAD3A3A1A304BF38F61103ADC137944@RobinLaptopPC> Message-ID: << Yes, I'm familiar with the Christian interpretation, and with the long-standing debate as to which came first, the pagan (I wouldn't say Wiccan, because it's much broader than what's been assembled into modern Wicca) or Christian versions. >> Well, the Dilly Song version (which is the one mostly used for pagan interpetations of various varieties) is definitely the later text. (I'll paste it in at the end.) The earliest trace of any text is easily as late as 1600, and more pagan elements tend to creep in later as the song evolves. So my own sense would be a basically Christian, possibly mildly heterodox, poem gradually transformed into a more pagan version over time as the neo-pagan movement gets up steam in the nineteenth century. SNIP << [RH] Thus most plausible the Two Lily-White Boys (a phrase later taken up by Auden and Charles Causley) are Jesus and John the Baptist. [UO] I've heard this, but I do not find this plausible. Mysterious quantities were very important in the early church, and the pairing of John and Jesus in this way would have been patently heretical. Such heresies were usually overlooked only as part of a campaign to co-opt pagan beliefs (e.g. the idolatrous symbology of Chrismas trees), which makes me believe the pagan predated the Christian here. Bel and Bran as the dueling boy-kings of the year is extremely orthodox in the pagan universe across Europe and the Middle East (it's actually traced to Babylonia and beyond). [RH] But still the problem (which the Graves interpretation tries to solve) of the reference to green. [UO] Graves takes his symbol-chasing to extremes, but his bases are very sound, mythographically. >> I'll have to reread my whole piece and remind myself ... I seem to remember that when I was working on it, I wasn't deeply impressed by the pagan interpetation, but maybe you can make a better case for it, Uche. Then again, much as I admire Robert Graves, and even _The White Goddess_, I'm not sure I'd use his work in that area in a scholarly context. Too idiosyncratic for starters. It's a lovely book in its own terms, and I was fairly obsessed with it when I was younger, but ... Robin ************************************** The Dilly Song One of them is all alone And evermore shall be so Two of them are lily-white Boys all dressed in green-oh Three of them are strangers O'er the wide world they are rangers Four it is the Dilly hour When blooms the Gilly flower Five it is the Dilly bird That's seldom seen but heard Six it is the ferryman The boat o'er the river floats - oh Seven are the seven stars in the sky The shining stars be seven - oh Eight it is the morning break Then all the world's awake - oh Nine it is the pale moonshine The shining moon is nine - oh Ten forgives all kind of sin >From ten begin again - oh From junction at earthlink.net Wed Oct 14 14:13:19 2009 From: junction at earthlink.net (Mark Weiss) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2009 14:13:19 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Just saw the Pleiades for the first time this fall In-Reply-To: <5BC61C1816974370AAE64C4163186AC7@RobinLaptopPC> References: <6768ac830910132050u1eb59c75v84d5e92be7ee27b1@mail.gmail.com> <625C9CD62DF74121A4955C6C93299E69@RobinLaptopPC> <6FAD3A3A1A304BF38F61103ADC137944@RobinLaptopPC> <5BC61C1816974370AAE64C4163186AC7@RobinLaptopPC> Message-ID: > >FIVE FOR THE SYMBOLS AT YOUR DOOR: >- The five books of Moses >- Or: a pentagram, a common motif on doorposts (why?) >- Or: The Greek symbols spelling "Icthys" >- The fish was a code symbol for early Christians >- Alt: Five for the oxen standing by (Christmas) > >["possibly the Hebraic pentagon... but possibly the >five wounds of Christ." - page ] > >[Or the symbol - possibly a pentagram - painted on doors by the >Children of Israel to ward off the plagues inflicted on Egypt.] > re: pentagon, pentagram. I'm not aware of a hebrew connection. So you mean the hexagram? (the shield of David). I've also never heard the blood on the door referred to as any specific symbol. It's of course commemorated by a longish rectangular box. I await enlightenment. Mark Announcing The Whole Island: Six Decades of Cuban Poetry (University of California Press). Forthcoming in November 2009. http://go.ucpress.edu/WholeIsland From uche at ogbuji.net Wed Oct 14 14:16:48 2009 From: uche at ogbuji.net (Uche Ogbuji) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2009 12:16:48 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Just saw the Pleiades for the first time this fall In-Reply-To: References: <6768ac830910132050u1eb59c75v84d5e92be7ee27b1@mail.gmail.com> <625C9CD62DF74121A4955C6C93299E69@RobinLaptopPC> <6FAD3A3A1A304BF38F61103ADC137944@RobinLaptopPC> Message-ID: On Wed, Oct 14, 2009 at 12:05 PM, Robin Hamilton < robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com> wrote: > [UO] Graves takes his symbol-chasing to extremes, but his bases are very > sound, mythographically. > >> >>> > I'll have to reread my whole piece and remind myself ... I seem to > remember > that when I was working on it, I wasn't deeply impressed by the pagan > interpetation, but maybe you can make a better case for it, Uche. > Not really, especially not being a professional folklorist. My preference is more what Graves would call "poetic truth" (i.e. that there really was a Tubal, son of Jubal). The feel of the song, even under Christian interpretation, is very pagan, and even if archeological evidence turned up that the first recording was by an Irish monk, I'd still suspect that monk of subversive motives. So perhaps I should have made that disclaimer clearer. I am speaking more poetically than archeologically. Appropriate, I think, for the list. > Then again, much as I admire Robert Graves, and even _The White Goddess_, > I'm not sure I'd use his work in that area in a scholarly context. Too > idiosyncratic for starters. It's a lovely book in its own terms, and I was > fairly obsessed with it when I was younger, but ... > Again it depends on scholar of what? A folklorist or archeological mythographer would be crazy to even pay attention to much of Grave's work. But for a poet in the modern tradition of English poetry, I think it's essential, and scholarly sound. There probably wasn't histocically an Achilleus, nor an Odysseus, and these are probably composites of legends of great kings, but for the purpose of poetical insight and criticism, we generally treat these as if they were historical persons, even in certain scholarly context. -- Uche Ogbuji http://uche.ogbuji.net Founding Partner, Zepheira http://zepheira.com Linked-in profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/ucheogbuji Articles: http://uche.ogbuji.net/tech/publications/ Friendfeed: http://friendfeed.com/uche Twitter: http://twitter.com/uogbuji Join me at Balisage: * http://www.balisage.net/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com Wed Oct 14 14:27:05 2009 From: robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com (Robin Hamilton) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2009 19:27:05 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Just saw the Pleiades for the first time this fall In-Reply-To: References: <6768ac830910132050u1eb59c75v84d5e92be7ee27b1@mail.gmail.com><625C9CD62DF74121A4955C6C93299E69@RobinLaptopPC><6FAD3A3A1A304BF38F61103ADC137944@RobinLaptopPC><5BC61C1816974370AAE64C4163186AC7@RobinLaptopPC> Message-ID: <04F14F4F0A9A46508878ABBDF76EC817@RobinLaptopPC> The below was simply the list of the various possible explanations I'd encountered for the different groupings. I don't vouch for the plausibility of any of them, simply that they were put forward by someone at some point. It's probably not complete anyway, or more may have turned up since I last looked, or something. One problem is that some explanations derive from different texts -- what I included in my post (cut directly from the longer piece) was pretty much a bald and eclectic summary. Robin ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Weiss" To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views" Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2009 7:13 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Just saw the Pleiades for the first time this fall > >> >>FIVE FOR THE SYMBOLS AT YOUR DOOR: >>- The five books of Moses >>- Or: a pentagram, a common motif on doorposts (why?) >>- Or: The Greek symbols spelling "Icthys" >>- The fish was a code symbol for early Christians >>- Alt: Five for the oxen standing by (Christmas) >> >>["possibly the Hebraic pentagon... but possibly the >>five wounds of Christ." - page ] >> >>[Or the symbol - possibly a pentagram - painted on doors by the Children >>of Israel to ward off the plagues inflicted on Egypt.] >> > > > re: pentagon, pentagram. I'm not aware of a hebrew connection. So you mean > the hexagram? (the shield of David). > > I've also never heard the blood on the door referred to as any specific > symbol. It's of course commemorated by a longish rectangular box. > > I await enlightenment. > > Mark > > > Announcing The Whole Island: Six Decades of Cuban Poetry (University of > California Press). > Forthcoming in November 2009. > http://go.ucpress.edu/WholeIsland > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > From robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com Wed Oct 14 14:36:55 2009 From: robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com (Robin Hamilton) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2009 19:36:55 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Just saw the Pleiades for the first time this fall In-Reply-To: References: <6768ac830910132050u1eb59c75v84d5e92be7ee27b1@mail.gmail.com><625C9CD62DF74121A4955C6C93299E69@RobinLaptopPC><6FAD3A3A1A304BF38F61103ADC137944@RobinLaptopPC> Message-ID: <5053C96416064C20BAEC31FA3AA10BFA@RobinLaptopPC> << So perhaps I should have made that disclaimer clearer. I am speaking more poetically than archeologically. Appropriate, I think, for the list. >> Actually, I agree with this. My objection to The Dilly Song version is that it's a late nineteenth century pastiche of an earlier text, and a mildly inept one at that. But I do think the nature of the texts themselves matters, even on a poetry list. << [RH] Then again, much as I admire Robert Graves, and even _The White Goddess_, I'm not sure I'd use his work in that area in a scholarly context. Too idiosyncratic for starters. It's a lovely book in its own terms, and I was fairly obsessed with it when I was younger, but ... [UO] Again it depends on scholar of what? A folklorist or archeological mythographer would be crazy to even pay attention to much of Grave's work. But for a poet in the modern tradition of English poetry, I think it's essential, and scholarly sound. There probably wasn't histocically an Achilleus, nor an Odysseus, and these are probably composites of legends of great kings, but for the purpose of poetical insight and criticism, we generally treat these as if they were historical persons, even in certain scholarly context. >> I'm not sure that you're saying more than that _The White Goddess_ is important as a text for discussing Graves, which of course I'd agree with. But when it comes even to Greek myth, I'm inclined to approach Graves' _Greek Mythology_ the way I approach the OED -- marvellous to have all those references collected together, but treat the conclusions drawn from them with extreme scepticism. Robin From uche at ogbuji.net Wed Oct 14 14:53:49 2009 From: uche at ogbuji.net (Uche Ogbuji) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2009 12:53:49 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Just saw the Pleiades for the first time this fall In-Reply-To: <5053C96416064C20BAEC31FA3AA10BFA@RobinLaptopPC> References: <6768ac830910132050u1eb59c75v84d5e92be7ee27b1@mail.gmail.com> <625C9CD62DF74121A4955C6C93299E69@RobinLaptopPC> <6FAD3A3A1A304BF38F61103ADC137944@RobinLaptopPC> <5053C96416064C20BAEC31FA3AA10BFA@RobinLaptopPC> Message-ID: On Wed, Oct 14, 2009 at 12:36 PM, Robin Hamilton < robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com> wrote: > [UO] Again it depends on scholar of what? A folklorist or archeological > mythographer would be crazy to even pay attention to much of Grave's work. > But for a poet in the modern tradition of English poetry, I think it's > essential, and scholarly sound. > > There probably wasn't histocically an Achilleus, nor an Odysseus, and these > are probably composites of legends of great kings, but for the purpose of > poetical insight and criticism, we generally treat these as if they were > historical persons, even in certain scholarly context. > >> >>> > I'm not sure that you're saying more than that _The White Goddess_ is > important as a text for discussing Graves, which of course I'd agree with. > But when it comes even to Greek myth, I'm inclined to approach Graves' > _Greek Mythology_ the way I approach the OED -- marvellous to have all those > references collected together, but treat the conclusions drawn from them > with extreme scepticism. My example of Achilleus and Odysseus had nothing to do with Graves' _Greek Mythology_. That was a more general example of where poetic and mythographical scholarship is of a different magisterium from historical and archeological scholarship. Perhaps a better example is that there is no historical evidence for the person of Homer, but scholarship in the Humanities mostly goes as if there were. Since you do bring up Graves' _Greek Mythology_, I agree that a lot of his conclusions are technically suspect, but I do also regard it as an important text in literary scholarship. -- Uche Ogbuji http://uche.ogbuji.net Founding Partner, Zepheira http://zepheira.com Linked-in profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/ucheogbuji Articles: http://uche.ogbuji.net/tech/publications/ Friendfeed: http://friendfeed.com/uche Twitter: http://twitter.com/uogbuji -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com Wed Oct 14 14:59:18 2009 From: robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com (Robin Hamilton) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2009 19:59:18 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Just saw the Pleiades for the first time this fall In-Reply-To: References: <6768ac830910132050u1eb59c75v84d5e92be7ee27b1@mail.gmail.com><625C9CD62DF74121A4955C6C93299E69@RobinLaptopPC><6FAD3A3A1A304BF38F61103ADC137944@RobinLaptopPC><5053C96416064C20BAEC31FA3AA10BFA@RobinLaptopPC> Message-ID: <98FA98443042436A8902AE522DB79010@RobinLaptopPC> << Since you do bring up Graves' _Greek Mythology_, I agree that a lot of his conclusions are technically suspect, but I do also regard it as an important text in literary scholarship. >> Concur. Robin From junction at earthlink.net Wed Oct 14 14:59:57 2009 From: junction at earthlink.net (Mark Weiss) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2009 14:59:57 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Just saw the Pleiades for the first time this fall In-Reply-To: References: <6768ac830910132050u1eb59c75v84d5e92be7ee27b1@mail.gmail.com> <625C9CD62DF74121A4955C6C93299E69@RobinLaptopPC> <6FAD3A3A1A304BF38F61103ADC137944@RobinLaptopPC> <5053C96416064C20BAEC31FA3AA10BFA@RobinLaptopPC> Message-ID: I'd have a lot less problem with what you say if you didn't play quite so fast and loose with the word "scholarship." An important literary text (any literary text) will be of scholarly interest, will be scholarly evidence, but not necessarily scholarship. At 02:53 PM 10/14/2009, you wrote: >On Wed, Oct 14, 2009 at 12:36 PM, Robin Hamilton ><robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com> wrote: >[UO] Again it depends on scholar of what? A folklorist or >archeological mythographer would be crazy to even pay attention to >much of Grave's work. But for a poet in the modern tradition of >English poetry, I think it's essential, and scholarly sound. > > >There probably wasn't histocically an Achilleus, nor an Odysseus, >and these are probably composites of legends of great kings, but for >the purpose of poetical insight and criticism, we generally treat >these as if they were historical persons, even in certain scholarly context. > > >I'm not sure that you're saying more than that _The White Goddess_ >is important as a text for discussing Graves, which of course I'd >agree with. But when it comes even to Greek myth, I'm inclined to >approach Graves' _Greek Mythology_ the way I approach the OED -- >marvellous to have all those references collected together, but >treat the conclusions drawn from them with extreme scepticism. > > >My example of Achilleus and Odysseus had nothing to do with Graves' >_Greek Mythology_. That was a more general example of where poetic >and mythographical scholarship is of a different magisterium from >historical and archeological scholarship. Perhaps a better example >is that there is no historical evidence for the person of Homer, but >scholarship in the Humanities mostly goes as if there were. > >Since you do bring up Graves' _Greek Mythology_, I agree that a lot >of his conclusions are technically suspect, but I do also regard it >as an important text in literary scholarship. > > >-- >Uche >Ogbuji http://uche.ogbuji.net >Founding Partner, Zepheira http://zepheira.com >Linked-in profile: >http://www.linkedin.com/in/ucheogbuji >Articles: >http://uche.ogbuji.net/tech/publications/ >Friendfeed: http://friendfeed.com/uche >Twitter: http://twitter.com/uogbuji > >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry Announcing The Whole Island: Six Decades of Cuban Poetry (University of California Press). Forthcoming in November 2009. http://go.ucpress.edu/WholeIsland From uche at ogbuji.net Wed Oct 14 15:03:18 2009 From: uche at ogbuji.net (Uche Ogbuji) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2009 13:03:18 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Just saw the Pleiades for the first time this fall In-Reply-To: References: <6768ac830910132050u1eb59c75v84d5e92be7ee27b1@mail.gmail.com> <625C9CD62DF74121A4955C6C93299E69@RobinLaptopPC> <6FAD3A3A1A304BF38F61103ADC137944@RobinLaptopPC> <5053C96416064C20BAEC31FA3AA10BFA@RobinLaptopPC> Message-ID: On Wed, Oct 14, 2009 at 12:59 PM, Mark Weiss wrote: > I'd have a lot less problem with what you say if you didn't play quite so > fast and loose with the word "scholarship." An important literary text (any > literary text) will be of scholarly interest, will be scholarly evidence, > but not necessarily scholarship. > I don't know what you mean by playing fast and loose with the word scholarship. I don't see how I used it in any incorrect, careless or incoherent way. "Scholarship" is a complex concept, and the uses of the word reflect that. Overall, words tend to be that way, and again that shouldn't be surprising in a poets' forum. -- Uche Ogbuji http://uche.ogbuji.net Founding Partner, Zepheira http://zepheira.com Linked-in profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/ucheogbuji Articles: http://uche.ogbuji.net/tech/publications/ Friendfeed: http://friendfeed.com/uche Twitter: http://twitter.com/uogbuji -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From junction at earthlink.net Wed Oct 14 15:16:34 2009 From: junction at earthlink.net (Mark Weiss) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2009 15:16:34 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Just saw the Pleiades for the first time this fall In-Reply-To: References: <6768ac830910132050u1eb59c75v84d5e92be7ee27b1@mail.gmail.com> <625C9CD62DF74121A4955C6C93299E69@RobinLaptopPC> <6FAD3A3A1A304BF38F61103ADC137944@RobinLaptopPC> <5053C96416064C20BAEC31FA3AA10BFA@RobinLaptopPC> Message-ID: "An important text in literary scholarship" implies that the text is a work of scholarship and a part of the ongoing discussion that is scholarship, not its subject. The White Goddess is not in that sense scholarship. I don't know how else the word could be used, unless you mean that there is no difference between scholarship and what it studies, in which case everything is scholarship. It is, however, a very good book. Regardless, my cavil isn't of much importance. Off to lay my fevered head on the pillow. That time of year. Best, Mark At 03:03 PM 10/14/2009, you wrote: >On Wed, Oct 14, 2009 at 12:59 PM, Mark Weiss ><junction at earthlink.net> wrote: >I'd have a lot less problem with what you say if you didn't play >quite so fast and loose with the word "scholarship." An important >literary text (any literary text) will be of scholarly interest, >will be scholarly evidence, but not necessarily scholarship. > > >I don't know what you mean by playing fast and loose with the word >scholarship. I don't see how I used it in any incorrect, careless >or incoherent way. "Scholarship" is a complex concept, and the uses >of the word reflect that. Overall, words tend to be that way, and >again that shouldn't be surprising in a poets' forum. > > >-- >Uche >Ogbuji http://uche.ogbuji.net >Founding Partner, Zepheira http://zepheira.com >Linked-in profile: >http://www.linkedin.com/in/ucheogbuji >Articles: >http://uche.ogbuji.net/tech/publications/ >Friendfeed: http://friendfeed.com/uche >Twitter: http://twitter.com/uogbuji > >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry Announcing The Whole Island: Six Decades of Cuban Poetry (University of California Press). Forthcoming in November 2009. http://go.ucpress.edu/WholeIsland From uche at ogbuji.net Wed Oct 14 15:24:40 2009 From: uche at ogbuji.net (Uche Ogbuji) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2009 13:24:40 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Just saw the Pleiades for the first time this fall In-Reply-To: References: <6768ac830910132050u1eb59c75v84d5e92be7ee27b1@mail.gmail.com> <6FAD3A3A1A304BF38F61103ADC137944@RobinLaptopPC> <5053C96416064C20BAEC31FA3AA10BFA@RobinLaptopPC> Message-ID: On Wed, Oct 14, 2009 at 1:16 PM, Mark Weiss wrote: > "An important text in literary scholarship" implies that the text is a work > of scholarship and a part of the ongoing discussion that is scholarship, not > its subject. That may be how you read it, but I meant it differently, and I think it can be naturally read the way I meant it. Maybe an alternate expression of my sentence will help? "In the field of literary scholarship, X is an important text to consider." Again I think none of this is surprising. English is full of such ambiguities. -- Uche Ogbuji http://uche.ogbuji.net Founding Partner, Zepheira http://zepheira.com Linked-in profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/ucheogbuji Articles: http://uche.ogbuji.net/tech/publications/ Friendfeed: http://friendfeed.com/uche Twitter: http://twitter.com/uogbuji -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mandolin at mikesnider.org Wed Oct 14 23:11:02 2009 From: mandolin at mikesnider.org (Michael Snider) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2009 23:11:02 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Just saw the Pleiades for the first time this fall In-Reply-To: References: <6768ac830910132050u1eb59c75v84d5e92be7ee27b1@mail.gmail.com> <5053C96416064C20BAEC31FA3AA10BFA@RobinLaptopPC> Message-ID: <6768ac830910142011m7947d24t354c288f86e56bdf@mail.gmail.com> Uche, thank you for for kindness. That poem has always meant a great deal to me - and it's great to see you, Robin, and Mark having such a whirl with Graves, one on my favorite poets and one whom I was reading obsessively at the time I wrote it. On Wed, Oct 14, 2009 at 3:24 PM, Uche Ogbuji wrote: > On Wed, Oct 14, 2009 at 1:16 PM, Mark Weiss wrote: >> >> "An important text in literary scholarship" implies that the text is a >> work of scholarship and a part of the ongoing discussion that is >> scholarship, not its subject. > > That may be how you read it, but I meant it differently, and I think it can > be naturally read the way I meant it.? Maybe an alternate expression of my > sentence will help?? "In the field of literary scholarship, X is an > important text to consider." > > Again I think none of this is surprising.? English is full of such > ambiguities. > > > -- > Uche Ogbuji ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? http://uche.ogbuji.net > Founding Partner, Zepheira ? ? ? ?http://zepheira.com > Linked-in profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/ucheogbuji > Articles: http://uche.ogbuji.net/tech/publications/ > Friendfeed: http://friendfeed.com/uche > Twitter: http://twitter.com/uogbuji > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Thu Oct 15 03:14:34 2009 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2009 09:14:34 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: Sueno(s) For Alejandra by Robert Estep now Available from Ahadada Books In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4b65c2d70910150014q1dceed3vac77f71fff824a0d@mail.gmail.com> "Robert Estep's dense carnival music moved me to dance and connected more than a few dangling wires. The house of poetry grows stranger." --Andre Codrescu Grenadine The banker comes out of the maid's room with a clothespin on his nose, mimicking an adenoidal lion's grrrff and a canary's coalmined peep, calling out their names as his children run around him, howling with laughter. His wife sips from her Nagasaki teacup, shakes her head, glances at the clock on the mantel, but smiles with her eyes, as he sinks on all fours like a bear. Llovizna The boy Gerald is splashing through the puddles cobble- tupped in Rue Git-Le-Coeur, avoiding the ones where he can see reflected red, his Hermes-flight in inadvertent stalk of Modi's widow; Amedeo M., scarecrow painter of deluxe bodies, whose ghost he'll one day grow up to play. Her pale hands cup her threadbare elbows as she somnambulates the black-as-oil street, glancing up once to a high window where she'll follow hope right through the winter glass. "A small perfectly enclosed space, full of daydreams and drama, as gaudy as a Fauve backdrop, as perfectly painted...." John Shreffler Available from www.ahadadabooks.com or SPD. Also, please check out our ever-growing library of free E-chaps, as well as three fabulous issues of Ekleksographia with more to come! Jess -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Thu Oct 15 12:38:01 2009 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2009 18:38:01 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Call for Papers on "America and Crime" Message-ID: <4b65c2d70910150938x6eb7a484hf3db010add586f1c@mail.gmail.com> *Call for Papers on "America and Crime"* *aspeers: emerging voices in american studies calls for submissions by November 1 2009* The past year has seen an unprecedented interest in white-collar crime. From the presidential election that pitched an honest Main Street against a criminal Wall Street to the trial of Bernard L. Madoff, crime, it seems, has become a central metaphor for the American public to reevaluate long-standing dogmas of neoliberalism. This recent surge of interest arguably is a consequence of the current economic developments, but it also reflects a more fundamental connection between American (self-)perception and ?crime,? a connection that is expressed in a wide range of cultural artifacts and texts. We are thus calling for submissions scrutinizing the role of crime from various disciplinary perspectives. Contributors are invited to explore the role of crime as a cultural signifier, a social reality with complex ramifications, an analytic category, or from other angles. Different notions of crime have served as master tropes both for American culture?s self-portrayal and for outside readings of the United States. From the celebrated lawlessness of the Frontier to the global appeal of gangsta rap, from the 1970s panic over serial killers to the perception of the US as a criminally imperial power, a wide range of discourses testifies to the significance the category has assumed. This cultural productivity of crime begs a wide range of questions. For example, how has crime been represented in different literary genres? How does fiction impact definitions and perceptions of crime? Have new forms of technology altered the way crime is being represented? Apart from such a literary/cultural studies angle, crime is also an immensely productive field in the social sciences, history, and law. Here, the complex nature of ?crime? becomes most apparent: It is at once a central, well-defined category of social interaction and a continually changing, fragile agreement. A number of questions arise: How have efforts at social control criminalized previously legal behavior? How has city development intersected with law enforcement efforts? In how far are advances in technology both an impediment to and an enabler of crime? In that an interest in crime modifies more traditional interests in race, class, and gender, it can be utilized not only as an object of inquiry, but as an analytic category that opens up interdisciplinary dialogues. In this sense, crime becomes a critical lens through which core concepts of American studies, such as the body, the nation, the border, etc., can be reconfigured. aspeers, the first and currently only graduate-level peer-reviewed journal for European American studies, invites fellow graduate students to reflect on these issues. Please note that the contributions we are looking for might address but are not limited to the topical parameters outlined above. We welcome term papers, excerpts from theses, or papers specifically written for the occasion by 1 November 2009. Please check out our submission guidelines and an editorial timetable at www.aspeers.com/2010. *Call for Art Contributions on "America and Crime"* *aspeers: emerging voices in american studies calls for art submissions by 1 November 2009* The past year has seen an unprecedented interest in white-collar crime. >From the presidential election that pitched an honest Main Street against a criminal Wall Street to the trial of Bernard L. Madoff, crime, it seems, has become a central metaphor for the American public to reevaluate long-standing dogmas of neoliberalism. This recent surge of interest arguably is a consequence of the current economic developments, but it also reflects a more fundamental connection between American (self-)perception and ?crime,? a connection that is expressed in a wide range of cultural artifacts and texts. For its open submission section, aspeers calls for contributions exploring the topic of crime and America. A list of possible contributions includes, but is not limited to: - photography focusing on the (in)visibility of crime and law enforcement in the American public sphere - collages (text, audio, or any other material) on crimes that have stirred the American public and that can be reevaluated through art - journals, videos, or interviews with ?unsuspecting criminals,? people who have committed everyday crimes that hardly anybody would call a crime in the literal sense - poetry or fiction that traces the dynamics of victim and perpetrator in everyday experiences - anything on ?criminal arts? such as graffiti - any other artistic exploration of the topic: the open submission section is an experimental space. We will consider for inclusion all submissions (poetry, photography, collages, etc.) regardless of the author's institutional affiliation, geographic location, or level of study. Non-printable material selected for publication will be included on the journal homepage. Plastic art will be on display in Leipzig at the issue?s launch ceremony and will be presented as still image in the paper and online edition. Please check out our submission guidelines, an editorial timetable, as well as some additional tips, and a list of possible topics at www.aspeers.com/2010. To be considered, contributions must be in by 1 November 2009. ------------------------------ -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Thu Oct 15 13:57:44 2009 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2009 19:57:44 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Hockney's Long Road Home Message-ID: <4b65c2d70910151057i264b3521t22d613c6ce45668d@mail.gmail.com> http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2009/10/18/arts/design/20091018-hockney-audioss/index.html -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Thu Oct 15 14:32:46 2009 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2009 20:32:46 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Vendler's Stevens Message-ID: <4b65c2d70910151132g37e62ef4sd2290758f014fe0f@mail.gmail.com> at the Massachusetts Poetry Festival http://www.radioopensource.org/whose-words-these-are-7-vendlers-stevens/ -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Fri Oct 16 14:03:11 2009 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2009 14:03:11 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Rilke the clay pot Message-ID: <8CC1CA20F4D7289-13E4-6A83@webmail-m035.sysops.aol.com> http://entertainment.timesonline.co.uk/tol/arts_and_entertainment/the_tls/article6836668.ece Rilke the clay pot The great poet freshly translated ? and smashed by his mistress Popular veneration and academic admiration persist despite the fact that Rilke in person was frequently vain, self-pitying, obsessive, narcissistic, snobbish, whining, arrogant, childish, demanding, lachrymose and neurotic, as well as being given to tantrums and panics. At the same time he was magnetically attractive to a series of women, often rich and well-connected, almost always highly intelligent, who housed, supported or slept with him. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Fri Oct 16 14:04:11 2009 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2009 14:04:11 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: For Immediate Release: Poetry Foundation Launches Online Poetry Learning Lab In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8CC1CA2327CD451-13E4-6AB2@webmail-m035.sysops.aol.com> Sent: Thu, Oct 15, 2009 4:18 pm Subject: For Immediate Release: Poetry Foundation Launches Online Poetry Learning Lab FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE October 15, 2009 Poetry Foundation Launches Online Poetry Learning Lab New educational, media-rich poetry experience for teachers and students CHICAGO ? The Poetry Foundation invites teachers and students to tap into its new online resource, the Poetry Learning Lab. Hosted on www.poetryfoundation.org, the Poetry Learning Lab is designed for anyone who wants to learn more about poetry. A dynamic resource for teachers, students, and learners of every age, the Poetry Learning Lab has been developed by the Poetry Foundation in conjunction with a team of education experts?including writing and literature teachers, librarians, and poets?to provide an immersive educational experience with poetry. By allowing students to experiment with different ways of reading poems?as text, sound, and visual artifacts?the Learning Lab provides readers of all levels with the opportunity to practice close reading and listening skills and to think broadly and analytically about poetry and poetics. An extension of the Poetry Foundation?s comprehensive website, which includes an archive of more than 600 poets and 8,000 poems, the Poetry Learning Lab?s multimedia educational resources include annotations, reading guides, audio and video recordings, discussion questions, writing ideas, teaching tips, and podcasts. The diverse learning approaches incorporated within the tools provide students and teachers with endless ways to approach poetry, and ensure that individual learning styles are met. These features are offered in connection with 10 selected poems: Louise Bogan?s ?A Tale? Robert Browning?s ?Fra Lippo Lippi? Lucille Clifton?s ?won?t you celebrate with me? Emily Dickinson?s ?I started Early - Took my Dog? John Donne?s ?The Sun Rising? Gerard Manley Hopkins?s ?The Windhover? Yusef Komunyakaa?s ?Facing It? Sylvia Plath?s ?Fever 103?? Walt Whitman?s ?A Passage to India? William Carlos Williams?s ?To a Poor Old Woman? Also serving as a one-stop portal for reference materials, the Poetry Learning Lab is replete with engaging articles about poets and poetry, bibliographies, a thorough glossary of literary terms, and a large selection of poetics essays and manifestos ranging from Plato to today. Catherine Halley, editor of www.poetryfoundation.org, says, ?The Poetry Learning Lab takes something Robert Frost once said as a point of departure: ?Poetry begins in delight and ends in wisdom.? The Lab encourages students to attend to individual poems with a focus that?s rare on the Internet?and at the same time provides teachers and instructors with a unique range of supplementary material useful in teaching poetry, from a glossary of poetic terms, to a series of historic poetics manifestos, to a variety of pedagogical essays.? The positive response from students across the country to Poetry Out Loud, a partnership of the NEA and the Poetry Foundation that encourages high school students to learn about poetry through memorization and performance, suggests that readers of all levels are interested in the opportunity to enjoy poetry and learn more about their literary heritage. The Poetry Learning Lab builds on and fosters this interest in poetry by facilitating an interactive learning process that allows readers to discover for themselves the pleasures of engaging with difficult and precise language. Teachers, students, and all users can also discover Harriet, the Poetry Foundation?s blog, where poetry teacher John S. O?Connor guest-blogs about the joys of teaching and studying poetry. The Poetry Foundation will host a booth in the Exhibit Hall at the annual National Council of Teachers of English (NCTE) convention in Philadelphia, November 19 to 22, 2009. Staff will be available to answer questions and provide more information. For more information on the conference, visit www.ncte.org/annual. For more information on the Poetry Foundation?s Poetry Learning Lab, please visit www.poetryfoundation.org/learninglab. FORWARD TO A FRIEND ? CONTACT POETRY FOUNDATION 444 North Michigan Avenue Chicago, IL 60611 312.787.7070 Media Contact: Anne Halsey ABOUT THE POETRY FOUNDATION The Poetry Foundation, publisher of Poetry magazine and one of the largest literary organizations in the world, exists to discover and celebrate the best poetry and to place it before the largest possible audience. The Poetry Foundation seeks to be a leader in shaping a receptive climate for poetry by developing new audiences, creating new avenues for delivery, and encouraging new kinds of poetry through innovative literary prizes and programs. For more information, please visit poetryfoundation.org. You have received this newsletter because you submitted your e-mail address at http://www.poetryfoundation.org. You may unsubscribe or change your newsletter subscription preferences at any time. Copyright ? 2009 Poetry Foundation -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From junction at earthlink.net Fri Oct 16 14:43:54 2009 From: junction at earthlink.net (Mark Weiss) Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2009 14:43:54 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Rilke the clay pot In-Reply-To: <8CC1CA20F4D7289-13E4-6A83@webmail-m035.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CC1CA20F4D7289-13E4-6A83@webmail-m035.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: What a surprise! An unlikable artist! Worth noting that the reference (the article is clear on this) is to his life as evidenced by letters written to various lovers before he was 26. He seems to have changed somewhat thereafter, tho not into the picture of health. But narcissism is a fairly common starting-place for those who want to be of the company of Goethe or Shakespeare. Also worth noting is that these letters are private correspondence with intimates. The person therein revealed is less inhibited in expression than he might otherwise be, but also is the person who coevolved with the recipient in their relationship. I.e, the women weren't bystanders--they evoked certain thoughts and behaviors, and they weren't forced to stick around. They also were pretty messed up all on their own. In other words, one can read the article, and presumably the book it reports on, as a cautionary tale as to the limitation of the application of sources to understanding the dead. Best, Mark At 02:03 PM 10/16/2009, you wrote: >http://entertainment.timesonline.co.uk/tol/arts_and_entertainment/the_tls/article6836668.ece >Rilke the clay pot >The great poet freshly translated ? and smashed by his mistreess > >Popular veneration and academic admiration >persist despite the fact that Rilke in person >was frequently vain, self-pitying, obsessive, >narcissistic, snobbish, whining, arrogant, >childish, demanding, lachrymose and neurotic, as >well as being given to tantrums and panics. At >the same time he was magnetically attractive to >a series of women, often rich and >well-connected, almost always highly >intelligent, who housed, supported or slept with him. >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry Announcing The Whole Island: Six Decades of Cuban Poetry (University of California Press). Forthcoming in November 2009. http://go.ucpress.edu/WholeIsland From editor at eratiopostmodernpoetry.com Fri Oct 16 15:07:24 2009 From: editor at eratiopostmodernpoetry.com (=?iso-8859-1?Q?e=B7ratio?=) Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2009 15:07:24 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] St Thomasino a note on Skip Fox Delta Blues (2009, Ahadada Books) Message-ID: <08b0a741f7447a481149c015910ccc7d.squirrel@webmail1.web.com> St Thomasino a note on Skip Fox Delta Blues (2009, Ahadada Books) http://eratio.blogspot.com/ http://eratio.blogspot.com/2009/10/its-not-so-much-that-i-am-reading-skip.html Gregory Vincent St. Thomasino Friday, October 16, 2009 From jforjames at aol.com Fri Oct 16 15:41:00 2009 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2009 15:41:00 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Nat'l Book Award nominees announced Message-ID: <8CC1CAFB93C3C5A-13E4-834A@webmail-m035.sysops.aol.com> http://www.nationalbook.org/nba2009.html Rae Armantrout, Versed (Wesleyan University Press) Ann Lauterbach, Or to Begin Again (Penguin Books) Carl Phillips, Speak Low (Farrar, Straus and Giroux) Lyrae Van Clief-Stefanon, Open Interval (University of Pittsburgh Press) Keith Waldrop, Transcendental Studies: A Trilogy (University of California Press) POETRY JUDGES: Mei-mei Berssenbrugge, A. Van Jordan, Cole Swensen, Kevin Young = -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From junction at earthlink.net Fri Oct 16 15:43:49 2009 From: junction at earthlink.net (Mark Weiss) Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2009 15:43:49 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Nat'l Book Award nominees announced In-Reply-To: <8CC1CAFB93C3C5A-13E4-834A@webmail-m035.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CC1CAFB93C3C5A-13E4-834A@webmail-m035.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: I'd love to see Rae get it. At 03:41 PM 10/16/2009, you wrote: >http://www.nationalbook.org/nba2009.html > >Rae Armantrout, Versed (Wesleyan University Press) >Ann Lauterbach, Or to Begin Again (Penguin Books) >Carl Phillips, Speak Low (Farrar, Straus and Giroux) >Lyrae Van Clief-Stefanon, Open Interval (University of Pittsburgh Press) >Keith Waldrop, Transcendental Studies: A Trilogy >(University of California Press) > >POETRY JUDGES: Mei-mei Berssenbrugge, A. Van Jordan, >Cole Swensen, Kevin Young >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry Announcing The Whole Island: Six Decades of Cuban Poetry (University of California Press). Forthcoming in November 2009. http://go.ucpress.edu/WholeIsland From cervantes.james at gmail.com Fri Oct 16 15:51:25 2009 From: cervantes.james at gmail.com (James Cervantes) Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2009 12:51:25 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Nat'l Book Award nominees announced In-Reply-To: References: <8CC1CAFB93C3C5A-13E4-834A@webmail-m035.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <648208b60910161251i11cd1661v197085443a6631c@mail.gmail.com> Or Lauterbach ,or Waldrop. If not, a banana and peanut butter sandwich. - Jim On Fri, Oct 16, 2009 at 12:43 PM, Mark Weiss wrote: > I'd love to see Rae get it. > > At 03:41 PM 10/16/2009, you wrote: > >> >> http://www.nationalbook.org/nba2009.html >> >> Rae Armantrout, Versed (Wesleyan University Press) >> Ann Lauterbach, Or to Begin Again (Penguin Books) >> Carl Phillips, Speak Low (Farrar, Straus and Giroux) >> Lyrae Van Clief-Stefanon, Open Interval (University of Pittsburgh Press) >> Keith Waldrop, Transcendental Studies: A Trilogy >> (University of California Press) >> >> POETRY JUDGES: Mei-mei Berssenbrugge, A. Van Jordan, >> Cole Swensen, Kevin Young >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> > > Announcing The Whole Island: Six Decades of Cuban Poetry (University of > California Press). > Forthcoming in November 2009. > http://go.ucpress.edu/WholeIsland > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From junction at earthlink.net Fri Oct 16 15:57:49 2009 From: junction at earthlink.net (Mark Weiss) Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2009 15:57:49 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Nat'l Book Award nominees announced In-Reply-To: <648208b60910161251i11cd1661v197085443a6631c@mail.gmail.com > References: <8CC1CAFB93C3C5A-13E4-834A@webmail-m035.sysops.aol.com> <648208b60910161251i11cd1661v197085443a6631c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Notably, no small presses and only one commercial press. So the world goes. Rae got no attention beyond a small coterie until her first Wesleyan book. At 03:51 PM 10/16/2009, you wrote: >Or Lauterbach ,or Waldrop. If not, a banana and peanut butter sandwich. > >- Jim > >On Fri, Oct 16, 2009 at 12:43 PM, Mark Weiss ><junction at earthlink.net> wrote: >I'd love to see Rae get it. > >At 03:41 PM 10/16/2009, you wrote: ><http://www.nationalbook.org/nba2009.html>http://www.nationalbook.org/nba2009.html > >Rae Armantrout, Versed (Wesleyan University Press) >Ann Lauterbach, Or to Begin Again (Penguin Books) >Carl Phillips, Speak Low (Farrar, Straus and Giroux) >Lyrae Van Clief-Stefanon, Open Interval (University of Pittsburgh Press) >Keith Waldrop, Transcendental Studies: A Trilogy >(University of California Press) > >POETRY JUDGES: Mei-mei Berssenbrugge, A. Van Jordan, >Cole Swensen, Kevin Young >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > >Announcing The Whole Island: Six Decades of Cuban Poetry (University >of California Press). >Forthcoming in November 2009. >http://go.ucpress.edu/WholeIsland > > > >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry Announcing The Whole Island: Six Decades of Cuban Poetry (University of California Press). Forthcoming in November 2009. http://go.ucpress.edu/WholeIsland From c.a.b.daly at gmail.com Fri Oct 16 16:45:25 2009 From: c.a.b.daly at gmail.com (Catherine Daly) Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2009 13:45:25 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Nat'l Book Award nominees announced In-Reply-To: <8CC1CAFB93C3C5A-13E4-834A@webmail-m035.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CC1CAFB93C3C5A-13E4-834A@webmail-m035.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: well, see the judges! But anyway, it is not easy for tiny presses to submit books for consideration: there's no downloadable form, and the form's required. I'm just saying, favors presses with staffs or interns, at the very least. I think I managed to fill out the form for at least one of my publishers, and I think I managed to complete it for at least one of the books I published. Also, a number of publishers, I think, restrict the books they nominate -- they don't send their whole year. On Fri, Oct 16, 2009 at 12:41 PM, wrote: > http://www.nationalbook.org/nba2009.html > > Rae Armantrout, Versed (Wesleyan University Press) > Ann Lauterbach, Or to Begin Again (Penguin Books) > Carl Phillips, Speak Low (Farrar, Straus and Giroux) > Lyrae Van Clief-Stefanon, Open Interval (University of Pittsburgh Press) > Keith Waldrop, Transcendental Studies: A Trilogy > (University of California Press) > > POETRY JUDGES: Mei-mei Berssenbrugge, A. Van Jordan, > Cole Swensen, Kevin Young > > -- All best, Catherine Daly c.a.b.daly at gmail.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Fri Oct 16 17:10:39 2009 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2009 23:10:39 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] St Thomasino a note on Skip Fox Delta Blues (2009, Ahadada Books) In-Reply-To: <08b0a741f7447a481149c015910ccc7d.squirrel@webmail1.web.com> References: <08b0a741f7447a481149c015910ccc7d.squirrel@webmail1.web.com> Message-ID: <4b65c2d70910161410t348d0901r89c852dcda9bf1a4@mail.gmail.com> A well deserved review. And an excellent excerpt. On Fri, Oct 16, 2009 at 9:07 PM, e?ratio wrote: > St Thomasino a note on Skip Fox Delta Blues (2009, Ahadada Books) > > http://eratio.blogspot.com/ > > > http://eratio.blogspot.com/2009/10/its-not-so-much-that-i-am-reading-skip.html > > > Gregory Vincent St. Thomasino > > Friday, October 16, 2009 > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Mon Oct 19 20:25:59 2009 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2009 20:25:59 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] poetry tape Message-ID: <8CC1F33086E41A7-1C4C-5A7C@webmail-d090.sysops.aol.com> http://ilovestickytape.blogspot.com/2009/10/poem-on-roll-charles-bainbridge.html Its finally landed! I love stickytape's very own tape! And its for sale. The story is that its a 3 way collaboration between graphic designer Wai Lee, myself and celebrated poet Charles Bainbridge. The poem printed is called Uproar and its a real beauty. The whole idea is to get poetry out there and what better way to spread the word than to send it out on packages. We have printed a limited run of this highly desirable tape so if anyone out there wants to buy a roll please email me on stickyjacqui at gmail.com or get in touch via carrier pigeon and i will send you a roll - provided you pay me ?5 via paypal. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Mon Oct 19 19:45:36 2009 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2009 19:45:36 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] dying for bad poetry Message-ID: <8CC1F2D6419BB27-15A8-1674@webmail-m055.sysops.aol.com> http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/faith/article6881679.ece ?I have then stood at the crem like a lemon, wondering why on earth I am present at the funeral of somebody led in by the tunes of Tina Turner, summed up in pithy platitudes of sentimental and secular poets and sent into the furnace with I Did it my Way blaring out across the speakers!? This year Co-operative Funeralcare found that nearly six in ten people in England and Wales chose pop music over traditional hymns for funerals, with My Way sung by Frank Sinatra or Shirley Bassey the favourite. ?Once upon a time the beautiful Requiem Mass would -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jbalizsprince at googlemail.com Sat Oct 17 08:24:57 2009 From: jbalizsprince at googlemail.com (Judy Prince) Date: Sat, 17 Oct 2009 08:24:57 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: FW: deaf student and scansion In-Reply-To: <4AD468E9.3070902@nut-n-but.net> References: <46F2CD7A5B96441FA3A51C8F25944AC9@RobinLaptopPC> <4AD3B321.6020805@nut-n-but.net> <4AD468E9.3070902@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <7db1d01b0910170524v7a90b859h9b36d338a0c3670b@mail.gmail.com> Still on this thread, but again responding in general. Visiting Glasgow this week [my first time!], I'm hearing musical Glaswegian speech and thinking about speech, poetry, and music---especially about comparing how music and poetry are "measured" and figuring out what qualities make speech/ poetry ?musical?. First, obvious observations about measuring music and poetry: 1] Music notation and metrics [poem notation] both use *duration *and*dynamics *as ways to measure---but music notation measures primarily the duration [faster, slower] of pitches, whereas metrics measures mainly the dynamics [loud/soft] of word parts. 2] Both notation systems use a fundamental unit based upon a "beat". In music, the beats are called ?notes? and represent *pitches*. In poems, the beats are *syllables* and represent the briefest [and usually combinations] of soft [ie, vowel or open] and hard [ie, consonant or closed] sounds. Recap: Music notation mainly measures the* duration* [faster or slower] of *pitches, *whereas metrics primarily measures the *dynamics* [louder or softer] of *syllables*. What qualities make speech or poetry sound ?musical?? Probably every quality, actually. Are there some qualities of speech/poetry that make them sound more musical than other kinds of speech/poetry? I?ve already said that Glaswegian speech/poetry sounds musical to me. Of course, I mean that it sounds more musical than my own USAmerican speech/poetry and the English I hear in the UK. A quick survey of what I think makes Glaswegian speech seem musical: a broader range of, and more contrast in, pitches and dynamics, as well as a ?rolling? ?r?. By now you?ve sussed that rather than saying Glaswegian speech/poetry is more musical than the others, I should say that Glaswegian sounds like a * different* *kind* of music than USAmerican and English English. Let me bring together all of the above observations with some examples of Chinese speech. I once heard a Chinese speaker say that USAmericans always told him they despaired at trying to manage the stressed syllables in Chinese. He?d reply: ?But Chinese has only four kinds of stressed syllables, whereas English has hundreds, perhaps thousands!? He was right, but that didn?t make the USAmericans better able to manage those four stresses [called ?tones?]. They had to learn *which*word-syllable had *which* of the four tones---or else the word would mean something entirely different. For example, you could say ?ma? in one tone and it means ?horse?, in another tone and it means ?hair?, and in another tone it means you?re asking a question. One more difficulty for USAmericans learning to speak Chinese is that each of the four stresses comprises a distinct combination of *pitch*, *duration*, and *dynamics.* * * Here?s a schema for the four tones using the word-syllable ?ma?: Tone 1: high unvarying sound [like a high hum] Tone 2: middle pitched rising to high [e.g., ?ma?, as if you?re about to ask your mother a question] Tone 3: same as 2 except starting at a much lower pitch [as if you were angry at your mother] Tone 4: sharp, falling sound [like saying ?SHIT!?] Try saying ?ma? in each of the four tones. Each of those four ?ma? sounds represents an entirely different meaning [horse?hair?]. A final observation. To me, Chinese speech resembles the sounds of traditional Chinese musical instruments. I wonder if the speech was fashioned after the music, or vice versa. Does English resemble English musical instrument sounds? I wonder why Glaswegian speakers don?t sound like bagpipes being played. Best, Judy -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From amyhappens at yahoo.com Mon Oct 19 16:28:08 2009 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king) Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2009 13:28:08 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Stain of Poetry Fall readings and fresh Spring/Summer 2009 videos! Message-ID: <762551.44895.qm@web83307.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Dear listeners, readers, poets of every stripe: It's cold outside, but there's plenty to do indoors. Take shelter on?October?30?with?guest host?Julian Brolaski and readers Cara Benson, Elizabeth?Bryant, Carla Drysdale, Brenda Iijima, Magus Magnus & Moez Surani; and on?November 20?with readers Lily Brown,?Dorothea Lasky, D?Lana R.A. Dameron,?Akilah Oliver, Lytton Smith &?Joshua Marie Wilkinson! And if you can't make?it to Brooklyn, our Spring/Summer 2009 season videos are now online at http://stainofpoetry.com/. Run click and view some astonishing readings.?Starring, in the order of appearance: Bill Berkson, Cindy Cruz, Aaron Fagan, Jennifer Fortin, Jean-Paul Pecqueur,?Bill Rasmovicz,?Jason Gray, Tony Mancus, Deb Poe, Ric Royer, Mario Susko,?Jessica Reed, Joel Chace, Elena Georgiou, Stuart?Greenhouse, Cindy King,?Christian Peet, Brett Price, Jennifer Burch, Heather Green, Chris Hosea,?Sueyeun Juliette Lee, Daniel Lin, Barry Schwabsky, Ken Chen, Johannes?Goransson, Cathy Park Hong,?Joyelle McSweeney, C. S. Carrier, Jennifer?Firestone, Erica Kaufman, Maya Pindyck, Laura Sims, Ari Banias, Maya Funaro, Colie Hoffman, Alana Joblin, Caledonia Kearns, Shani Thompson, Julian?Brolaski, Adam Fieled, Nada Gordon, Scott Hightower, Chris Stackhouse, David?Wolach, Emily Kendal Frey, Phil Memmer, Jeni Olin, Zach Schomburg & JodiAnn?Stevenson. The stain of poetry seeps through la pellicule... Cheers, Ana & Amy http://stainofpoetry.com http://amyking.org/ http://nightcommute.org/ __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at gmail.com Mon Oct 19 19:26:02 2009 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2009 18:26:02 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Copyright Notice by PZ Message-ID: Something of interest: http://www.z-site.net/copyright-notice-by-pz/ Hal -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From c.a.b.daly at gmail.com Mon Oct 19 22:27:34 2009 From: c.a.b.daly at gmail.com (Catherine Daly) Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2009 19:27:34 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] dying for bad poetry In-Reply-To: <8CC1F2D6419BB27-15A8-1674@webmail-m055.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CC1F2D6419BB27-15A8-1674@webmail-m055.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: I don't think it is the death of Christianity, but 1) the death of religious music, or indeed, any music other than pop that has 2) some sort of relevance for people who die, and their friends and family who survive them, and 3) what people are looking for in an funeral -- Oh, the great times we used to have listening to the Requiem! No, of course not, it is a serious piece of music. We want to remember joy, not be all gloomy. A bit odd, since we all have to go to far fewer funerals than people used to. Here, the military doesn't do a 21 gun salute, they shoot three guns seven times, and they have these little plastc trumpets that play recordings of taps, since there are too few real buglers to serve all the deaths. -- All best, Catherine Daly c.a.b.daly at gmail.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Sun Oct 18 15:42:56 2009 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sun, 18 Oct 2009 21:42:56 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Anthologies - The Poets' Corner Message-ID: <4b65c2d70910181242y52cafc70k8190c83abfe63891@mail.gmail.com> I remember on this list, that David Graham specifically, and several other people asked me to highlight the Anthologies, one way or the other. I didn't comply because we have been speaking a lot about renewing the Corner. But things keep on delaying, and so I finally moved the Anthologies on top of the index: http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=Content This and for the time being, my best wishes, Anny -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mandolin at mikesnider.org Mon Oct 19 23:02:05 2009 From: mandolin at mikesnider.org (Michael Snider) Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2009 23:02:05 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Copyright Notice by PZ In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6768ac830910192002i7266e4afsfbef2f57f767fb17@mail.gmail.com> It's a good thing I have no interest whatsoever in Zukofsky's kind of poetry. That's not a claim about its value, only about my interest. On Mon, Oct 19, 2009 at 7:26 PM, Halvard Johnson wrote: > Something of interest: > > http://www.z-site.net/copyright-notice-by-pz/ > > > Hal > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > From junction at earthlink.net Mon Oct 19 23:05:19 2009 From: junction at earthlink.net (Mark Weiss) Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2009 23:05:19 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Copyright Notice by PZ In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Paul Zukofsky is a contemptible little man. It's extremely unlikely that his threats would hold up in court, but he knows that the threats all by themselves will discourage publishers from taking the risk. He used to make a living as a musician. I guess he's taken to cannibalizing his father instead. Mark At 07:26 PM 10/19/2009, you wrote: >Something of interest: > >http://www.z-site.net/copyright-notice-by-pz/ > > >Hal >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry Announcing The Whole Island: Six Decades of Cuban Poetry (University of California Press). Forthcoming in November 2009. http://go.ucpress.edu/WholeIsland From junction at earthlink.net Mon Oct 19 23:07:22 2009 From: junction at earthlink.net (Mark Weiss) Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2009 23:07:22 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Copyright Notice by PZ In-Reply-To: <6768ac830910192002i7266e4afsfbef2f57f767fb17@mail.gmail.co m> References: <6768ac830910192002i7266e4afsfbef2f57f767fb17@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Zukofsky didn't right a "kind of poetry." There is a lesson here. Be very careful who you make executor of your literary estate. Mark At 11:02 PM 10/19/2009, you wrote: >It's a good thing I have no interest whatsoever in Zukofsky's kind of poetry. > >That's not a claim about its value, only about my interest. > >On Mon, Oct 19, 2009 at 7:26 PM, Halvard Johnson wrote: > > Something of interest: > > > > http://www.z-site.net/copyright-notice-by-pz/ > > > > > > Hal > > > > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry Announcing The Whole Island: Six Decades of Cuban Poetry (University of California Press). Forthcoming in November 2009. http://go.ucpress.edu/WholeIsland From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Sat Oct 17 11:57:43 2009 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sat, 17 Oct 2009 17:57:43 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] James Joyce in Prague Message-ID: <4b65c2d70910170857tfdf0eaar325d0b0c466b6b42@mail.gmail.com> On behalf of the International James Joyce Foundation, we invite you to the XXII International James Joyce Symposium in the ?Golden City? of Prague, 13-18 June 2010. Proposals for individual papers of 20 minutes duration are welcome on any aspect of Joyce studies, especially those that focus on the relationship of Joyce to Prague and the heritage of Central European modernism in the arts, philosophy and theory-particularly the legacies of structuralism and the Prague linguistic circle. ***Deadline for submission of proposals: 1 March 2010*** Prague is at the centre of Europe as Joyce is at the centre of the tradition of European modernism, and it is fitting that the major European author of the twentieth century be honoured in the city that is the very heart of modern Europe. Historically, some of the earliest translations of Joyce?s work appeared in Prague, and the first President of the Czechoslovak Republic-T.G. Masaryk-was even believed to have annotated a first edition of Ulysses, although only the first French edition survives in the Masaryk archive today. Nowadays the work of Joyce represents a major focal point of philological research at Charles University, where the first electronic journal of Joyce scholarship was founded in 1994: Hypermedia Joyce Studies. Since 2003 a biannual Joyce colloquium has taken place in Prague, augmented by a series of book publications through the Litteraria Pragensia imprint. Charles University is itself one of the oldest universities in Europe, having been founded in 1348. Moreover, the Department of Anglophone Literatures and Cultures was the original home of Prague Structuralism, whose legacy-through the work of Rene Wellek and Roman Jakobson-has had an enduring impact on Joyce scholarship internationally. It is only fitting that Joyce?s work be celebrated in such an environment, in a country that was also the homeland not only of Kafka, but of Freud, Mahler and Husserl. Patron: We are proud to announce that the patron of the XXII International James Joyce Symposium is the former Czech President, dissident and playwright, Vaclav Havel. Dedication: It is the wish of the host committee to dedicate the 2010 Symposium to the memory of Prof. Donald F. Theall (1928-2008). More Information: Symposium website http://www.jamesjoyce.cz -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mandolin at mikesnider.org Mon Oct 19 23:18:24 2009 From: mandolin at mikesnider.org (Michael Snider) Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2009 23:18:24 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Copyright Notice by PZ In-Reply-To: References: <6768ac830910192002i7266e4afsfbef2f57f767fb17@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <6768ac830910192018p1a006bc3q85804790d3615b03@mail.gmail.com> Mark, I stand corrected. But I've never read anything of his that made me say "I want to learn how to do that!" Remembering Eliot writing that he had to mature into an appreciation of Goethe I'm quite willing to accept that as a personal failing. There's only so much time for mortals, and I'm almost 57. On Mon, Oct 19, 2009 at 11:07 PM, Mark Weiss wrote: > Zukofsky didn't right a "kind of poetry." > > There is a lesson here. Be very careful who you make executor of your > literary estate. > > Mark > > At 11:02 PM 10/19/2009, you wrote: >> >> It's a good thing I have no interest whatsoever in Zukofsky's kind of >> poetry. >> >> That's not a claim about its value, only about my interest. >> >> On Mon, Oct 19, 2009 at 7:26 PM, Halvard Johnson >> wrote: >> > Something of interest: >> > >> > http://www.z-site.net/copyright-notice-by-pz/ >> > >> > >> > Hal >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > New-Poetry mailing list >> > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > Announcing The Whole Island: Six Decades of Cuban Poetry (University of > California Press). > Forthcoming in November 2009. > http://go.ucpress.edu/WholeIsland > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > From by.tjmst at gmail.com Sat Oct 17 15:25:38 2009 From: by.tjmst at gmail.com (BY TJMST) Date: Sat, 17 Oct 2009 20:25:38 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] wither world water supply for sanitation and hygienic active living - kudos to ROTARY INTERNATIONAL SANITARY ACTIVISM BY GBEMI TIJANI MST Message-ID: <5908b9b20910171225w64ef040bp9daf36caa2a8548e@mail.gmail.com> *KUDOS..RI 'S PIONEERING ROLE IN SANITATION IS LAUDABLE YET THE WORLD NEEDS TRILLIONS OF USD TO GUARANTY POTABLE WATER FOR APPROX 7 BILLION BY GBEMI TIJANI MST* Thanks for ROTARY AFRICA, THE ROTARIAN & GLOBAL OUTLOOK I ?m always buoyed about their regional reporting of clubs? activities without loosing focus of RI basics and her splendid organizational metamorphosis since the first public toilet was built by The ROTARY CLUB of Chicago where Paul Harris grew and dispersed the mustard Rotary seeds till the present 33,000 adult clubs spreading 200 countries and geographical areas . Since I became a Rotarian I?ve also been watching the psyche of Rotary leadership especially those saddled with fund disbursement *for humanitarian projects. It ?s heartening to prove that RI & Rotary Foundation Grant always* nose for other equally vital human problems such as water & sanitation that might ruin the lives of children they are trying to vaccinate & nurture to healthy guys and gals after POLIO has been put in its death knell. I hope Rotary and their friend and all altruisticis world citizens will keep or emulate this spirit. Bill Gates, a humanitarian practitioner and premium software developer was also thoughtfully concerned about the havoc malaria was doing to children when he visited Nigeria early in the year. I thought this kind of vicious circle diagnosis was peculiar to epidemiologists and allied social scientists. I commend the efforts of RI?s implementing organs for their consistent focus on community development via involved infrastructural building for water or sanitation or poor school and village adoption. I will however appreciate it immensely on behalf of the world?s poor ?living in developing countries rural and so ?called waterless, insanitary cities - if RI through her working committees could look into urban or urban - poor slum clearance as a special project for FUTURE VISION at the club and district levels.Just as membership retention and recruitment should be driven with QUANTITY OF QUALITY I surmise water and sanitation projects may not be done complacently. From the District lecture held at Transcorp Hotel, Abuja at the investiture Dr KAZEEM MUSTAPHA, DG9125 THE WORLD FINANCIAL RESOURCES ARE ARE CONTROLLED .BY 2% of the global population! ?which is also a fundamental cause of inequity in the world economics. RI and Rotary clubs should charge their searchlight in their usual GO ?GETTING FRIENDSHIP MANNER to move projects that will improve the human condition than hitherto. The sequel of overcrowding is evidently a nuisance problem that can degrade to environmental diseases beyond communicable diseases facilitated by overcrowding. I have witnessed incredible messing up of city space and environmental abuse in several indigenous cities with or without colonial influence in Africa -Nigeria inclusive. The service -splendor label often ascribed to Rotary since her 1st toilet project in Chicago in 1907 is perpetually been amplified by RI 'S health hunger & humanity programme empowerment in 1978-79 through the Polio plus in 1984-85 that was provoked by RI 's BOLD immunization of 6million Philippines kids. It will be epidemiologically potent and appreciated if RI can step up water and sanitation programmes even if it means collaborating with the laudable but NOT SO SUCCESSFUL UNITED NATIONS water /sanitation decade in the ?80sSurely the world ?s water will need trillions of dollars to guaranty some tolerable personal/public hygiene. .More so I have practically discovered that no matter how hygienically conscious any group of inhabitants are - their sanitary efforts can?t be effective as to sanitary obligations -without water. In fact, water is life and all about the family & community hygiene we desire or consider basic in the city and village revolves round provision of usable water not recycled wash water and of course potable water is mandatory for all.. Again this has to be provided as QUANTITY OF QUALITY not just partial supplies and we must beware of failed projects. I TRUST ROTARY INTERNATIONAL & HER 33,000 vine branches serving all over the globe. Rtn GBEMI TIJANI MST,RC OLUYOLE ESTATE,IB.D9125,NIGERIA -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Tue Oct 20 07:55:47 2009 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2009 06:55:47 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Copyright Notice by PZ In-Reply-To: <6768ac830910192018p1a006bc3q85804790d3615b03@mail.gmail.com> References: <6768ac830910192002i7266e4afsfbef2f57f767fb17@mail.gmail .com> <6768ac830910192018p1a006bc3q85804790d3615b03@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4ADDA543.4050302@nut-n-but.net> Michael Snider wrote: > Mark, I stand corrected. Baloney. Every poet composes a "kind of poetry." Free verse, for instance, is a kind of poetry. --Bob G. From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Tue Oct 20 08:01:53 2009 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2009 07:01:53 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: FW: deaf student and scansion In-Reply-To: <7db1d01b0910170524v7a90b859h9b36d338a0c3670b@mail.gmail.com> References: <46F2CD7A5B96441FA3A51C8F25944AC9@RobinLaptopPC><4AD3B321.6020805@nut-n-but.net><4AD468E9.3070902@nut-n-but.net> <7db1d01b0910170524v7a90b859h9b36d338a0c3670b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4ADDA6B1.10803@nut-n-but.net> Judy Prince wrote: > > Still on this thread, but again responding in general. > > > > Visiting Glasgow this week [my first time!], I'm hearing musical > Glaswegian speech and thinking about speech, poetry, and > music---especially about comparing how music and poetry are "measured" > and figuring out what qualities make speech/ poetry ?musical?. > > > > First, obvious observations about measuring music and poetry: > > > > 1] Music notation and metrics [poem notation] both use *duration > *and* dynamics *as ways to measure---but music notation measures > primarily the duration [faster, slower] of pitches, whereas metrics > measures mainly the dynamics [loud/soft] of word parts. > > > > 2] Both notation systems use a fundamental unit based upon a "beat". > In music, the beats are called ?notes? and represent *pitches*. In > poems, the beats are *syllables* and represent the briefest [and > usually combinations] of soft [ie, vowel or open] and hard [ie, > consonant or closed] sounds. > > > > Recap: Music notation mainly measures the* duration* [faster or > slower] of *pitches, *whereas metrics primarily measures the > *dynamics* [louder or softer] of *syllables*. > > > > What qualities make speech or poetry sound ?musical?? Probably every > quality, actually. Are there some qualities of speech/poetry that > make them sound more musical than other kinds of speech/poetry? > > > > I?ve already said that Glaswegian speech/poetry sounds musical to me. > Of course, I mean that it sounds more musical than my own USAmerican > speech/poetry and the English I hear in the UK. A quick survey of > what I think makes Glaswegian speech seem musical: a broader range > of, and more contrast in, pitches and dynamics, as well as a ?rolling? > ?r?. > > > > By now you?ve sussed that rather than saying Glaswegian speech/poetry > is more musical than the others, I should say that Glaswegian sounds > like a *different* *kind* of music than USAmerican and English English. > > > > Let me bring together all of the above observations with some examples > of Chinese speech. I once heard a Chinese speaker say that > USAmericans always told him they despaired at trying to manage the > stressed syllables in Chinese. He?d reply: ?But Chinese has only > four kinds of stressed syllables, whereas English has hundreds, > perhaps thousands!? > > > > He was right, but that didn?t make the USAmericans better able to > manage those four stresses [called ?tones?]. They had to learn > *which* word-syllable had *which* of the four tones---or else the word > would mean something entirely different. For example, you could say > ?ma? in one tone and it means ?horse?, in another tone and it means > ?hair?, and in another tone it means you?re asking a question. > > > > One more difficulty for USAmericans learning to speak Chinese is that > each of the four stresses comprises a distinct combination of *pitch*, > *duration*, and *dynamics.* > > * * > > Here?s a schema for the four tones using the word-syllable ?ma?: > > Tone 1: high unvarying sound [like a high hum] > > Tone 2: middle pitched rising to high [e.g., ?ma?, as if you?re about > to ask your mother a question] > > Tone 3: same as 2 except starting at a much lower pitch [as if you > were angry at your mother] > > Tone 4: sharp, falling sound [like saying ?SHIT!?] > > > > Try saying ?ma? in each of the four tones. Each of those four ?ma? > sounds represents an entirely different meaning [horse?hair?]. > > > > A final observation. To me, Chinese speech resembles the sounds of > traditional Chinese musical instruments. I wonder if the speech was > fashioned after the music, or vice versa. Does English resemble > English musical instrument sounds? > > > > I wonder why Glaswegian speakers don?t sound like bagpipes being > played. > > > > Best, > > > > Judy > You're being way too analytical, Judy. You're trying to be rational about a Great Mystery. All we can meaningfully say about music and poetry is that they are sacred. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From junction at earthlink.net Tue Oct 20 07:16:24 2009 From: junction at earthlink.net (Mark Weiss) Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2009 07:16:24 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Copyright Notice by PZ In-Reply-To: <4ADDA543.4050302@nut-n-but.net> References: <6768ac830910192002i7266e4afsfbef2f57f767fb17@mail.gmail .com> <6768ac830910192018p1a006bc3q85804790d3615b03@mail.gmail.com> <4ADDA543.4050302@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: We also write with words.Much of the time. Michael meant something more specific, I think. You might try mustard with your baloney. Has a soothing effect. Mark At 07:55 AM 10/20/2009, you wrote: >Michael Snider wrote: >>Mark, I stand corrected. >Baloney. Every poet composes a "kind of poetry." Free verse, for >instance, is a kind of poetry. > >--Bob G. > >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry Announcing The Whole Island: Six Decades of Cuban Poetry (University of California Press). Forthcoming in November 2009. http://go.ucpress.edu/WholeIsland From jeff.newberry at gmail.com Tue Oct 20 07:28:51 2009 From: jeff.newberry at gmail.com (Jeff Newberry) Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2009 07:28:51 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] dying for bad poetry In-Reply-To: <8CC1F2D6419BB27-15A8-1674@webmail-m055.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CC1F2D6419BB27-15A8-1674@webmail-m055.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <731bb17a0910200428l683c024blb5f191ede3a01418@mail.gmail.com> How incredibly sad. Jeff Newberry On Mon, Oct 19, 2009 at 7:45 PM, wrote: > http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/faith/article6881679.ece > ?I have then stood at the crem like a lemon, wondering why on earth I am > present at the funeral of somebody led in by the tunes of Tina Turner, > summed up in pithy platitudes of sentimental and secular poets and sent into > the furnace with *I Did it my Way* blaring out across the speakers!? > > This year Co-operative Funeralcare found that nearly six in ten people in > England and Wales chose pop music over traditional hymns for funerals, with > *My Way* sung by Frank Sinatra or Shirley Bassey the favourite. > > ?Once upon a time the beautiful Requiem Mass would > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- You cannot tell people what to do, you can only tell them parables; and that is what art really is, particular stories of particular people and experience, from which each according to his own immediate and peculiar needs may draw his own conclusion. --W.H. Auden -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Tue Oct 20 07:38:12 2009 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2009 13:38:12 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] dying for bad poetry In-Reply-To: <731bb17a0910200428l683c024blb5f191ede3a01418@mail.gmail.com> References: <8CC1F2D6419BB27-15A8-1674@webmail-m055.sysops.aol.com> <731bb17a0910200428l683c024blb5f191ede3a01418@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4b65c2d70910200438l2f8c4f59p2adfe0af7bd14d6a@mail.gmail.com> Verdi's Requiem will never be matched. On Tue, Oct 20, 2009 at 1:28 PM, Jeff Newberry wrote: > How incredibly sad. > > Jeff Newberry > > On Mon, Oct 19, 2009 at 7:45 PM, wrote: > >> http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/faith/article6881679.ece >> ?I have then stood at the crem like a lemon, wondering why on earth I am >> present at the funeral of somebody led in by the tunes of Tina Turner, >> summed up in pithy platitudes of sentimental and secular poets and sent into >> the furnace with *I Did it my Way* blaring out across the speakers!? >> >> This year Co-operative Funeralcare found that nearly six in ten people in >> England and Wales chose pop music over traditional hymns for funerals, with >> *My Way* sung by Frank Sinatra or Shirley Bassey the favourite. >> >> ?Once upon a time the beautiful Requiem Mass would >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > > > -- > You cannot tell people what to do, you can only tell them parables; and > that is what art really is, particular stories of particular people and > experience, from which each according to his own immediate and peculiar > needs may draw his own conclusion. --W.H. Auden > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jfq at myuw.net Tue Oct 20 07:54:05 2009 From: jfq at myuw.net (Jason Quackenbush) Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2009 04:54:05 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: FW: deaf student and scansion In-Reply-To: <7db1d01b0910170524v7a90b859h9b36d338a0c3670b@mail.gmail.com> References: <46F2CD7A5B96441FA3A51C8F25944AC9@RobinLaptopPC> <4AD3B321.6020805@nut-n-but.net> <4AD468E9.3070902@nut-n-but.net> <7db1d01b0910170524v7a90b859h9b36d338a0c3670b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: a few notes on something that otherwise makes a lot of sense 1.) Duration isn't a measure of speed it's a measure of length. Speed is the tempo of a piece of music, and the durations are relative to the measure of the time signature, which takes the pulse of the tempo and makes of it a certain number of beats per measure. 2.) I'd quibble that it's not the syllable that is a beat but the stressed syllables 3.) the tones of chinese are a form of intonation, not stress. intonation conveys very little meaning in English, the most recognizable one being the rising intonation used for questions (common to a great many languages, even non-indoeuropean ones). By contrast, mandarin chinese has a very small number of vowels and consonants compared to other languages and uses intonation in much the way that english uses vowels. I'd generally agree that there are lots of factors that go into musicality, but I think its possible to isolate a few. The strongest to my ear: 1.) Rhyme 2.) Assonance 3.) alliteration 4.) rhythmic canon 5.) consonance All of these qualities have a lot of details and elements, but I think rhythmic is the most complicated and as a result has been the most controversial. The others are all based primarily on phonemes in one way or another, whereas rhythm is specifically related to the timing of the language. English is stress timed, but that by your analogy and my extension is, i think, more or less equivalent to recognizing that there is a tempo to be adhered to. beyond that point speech by necessity has to be more complicated because unlike music it has to carry semantic content which requires much more variation than you get out of twelve notes and two basic subdivisions of a beat. On Oct 17, 2009, at 5:24 AM, Judy Prince wrote: > Still on this thread, but again responding in general. > > > > Visiting Glasgow this week [my first time!], I'm hearing musical > Glaswegian > speech and thinking about speech, poetry, and music---especially about > comparing how music and poetry are "measured" and figuring out what > qualities make speech/ poetry ?musical?. > > > > First, obvious observations about measuring music and poetry: > > > > 1] Music notation and metrics [poem notation] both use *duration > *and*dynamics > *as ways to measure---but music notation measures primarily the > duration > [faster, slower] of pitches, whereas metrics measures mainly the > dynamics > [loud/soft] of word parts. > > > > 2] Both notation systems use a fundamental unit based upon a > "beat". In > music, the beats are called ?notes? and represent *pitches*. In > poems, the > beats are *syllables* and represent the briefest [and usually > combinations] > of soft [ie, vowel or open] and hard [ie, consonant or closed] sounds. > > > > Recap: Music notation mainly measures the* duration* [faster or > slower] of > *pitches, *whereas metrics primarily measures the *dynamics* [louder > or > softer] of *syllables*. > > > > What qualities make speech or poetry sound ?musical?? Probably every > quality, actually. Are there some qualities of speech/poetry that > make them > sound more musical than other kinds of speech/poetry? > > > > I?ve already said that Glaswegian speech/poetry sounds musical to > me. Of > course, I mean that it sounds more musical than my own USAmerican > speech/poetry and the English I hear in the UK. A quick survey of > what I > think makes Glaswegian speech seem musical: a broader range of, and > more > contrast in, pitches and dynamics, as well as a ?rolling? ?r?. > > > > By now you?ve sussed that rather than saying Glaswegian speech/ > poetry is > more musical than the others, I should say that Glaswegian sounds > like a * > different* *kind* of music than USAmerican and English English. > > > > Let me bring together all of the above observations with some > examples of > Chinese speech. I once heard a Chinese speaker say that USAmericans > always > told him they despaired at trying to manage the stressed syllables in > Chinese. He?d reply: ?But Chinese has only four kinds of stressed > syllables, whereas English has hundreds, perhaps thousands!? > > > > He was right, but that didn?t make the USAmericans better able to > manage > those four stresses [called ?tones?]. They had to learn > *which*word-syllable had > *which* of the four tones---or else the word would mean something > entirely > different. For example, you could say ?ma? in one tone and it means > ?horse?, in another tone and it means ?hair?, and in another tone it > means > you?re asking a question. > > > > One more difficulty for USAmericans learning to speak Chinese is > that each > of the four stresses comprises a distinct combination of *pitch*, > *duration*, > and *dynamics.* > > * * > > Here?s a schema for the four tones using the word-syllable ?ma?: > > Tone 1: high unvarying sound [like a high hum] > > Tone 2: middle pitched rising to high [e.g., ?ma?, as if you?re > about to > ask your mother a question] > > Tone 3: same as 2 except starting at a much lower pitch [as if you > were > angry at your mother] > > Tone 4: sharp, falling sound [like saying ?SHIT!?] > > > > Try saying ?ma? in each of the four tones. Each of those four ?ma? > sounds > represents an entirely different meaning [horse?hair?]. > > > > A final observation. To me, Chinese speech resembles the sounds of > traditional Chinese musical instruments. I wonder if the speech was > fashioned after the music, or vice versa. Does English resemble > English > musical instrument sounds? > > > > I wonder why Glaswegian speakers don?t sound like bagpipes being > played. > > > > > Best, > > > > Judy > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Tue Oct 20 11:47:59 2009 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2009 10:47:59 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Copyright Notice by PZ In-Reply-To: References: <6768ac830910192002i7266e4afsfbef2f57f767fb17@mail.gmail .com><6768ac830910192018p1a006bc3q85804790d3615b03@mail.gmail.com><4ADDA 543.4050302@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <4ADDDBAF.3080509@nut-n-but.net> Mark Weiss wrote: > We also write with words.Much of the time. > > Michael meant something more specific, I think. I went by what was said. But even if looking for something more specific, I'd say Zukofsky wrote a kind of free verse different from that of most of his contemporaries--at least that's my impression, more from what I've read about him than from reading him, which I haven't done to much of an extent. It seems to me, though, that there was a school of free verse that he and Williams (and others) were in, and a sub-school of that school that he but not Williams was in, that was a partial source-school of language poetry, another kind of poetry, of which there are further kinds. And I don't feel I'm making up "kinds of poetry" with only a few members, or just one, each. --Bob > > > You might try mustard with your baloney. Has a soothing effect. > > Mark > > At 07:55 AM 10/20/2009, you wrote: >> Michael Snider wrote: >>> Mark, I stand corrected. >> Baloney. Every poet composes a "kind of poetry." Free verse, for >> instance, is a kind of poetry. >> >> --Bob G. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > Announcing The Whole Island: Six Decades of Cuban Poetry (University > of California Press). > Forthcoming in November 2009. > http://go.ucpress.edu/WholeIsland > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > From amyhappens at yahoo.com Tue Oct 20 11:08:08 2009 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king) Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2009 08:08:08 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Copyright Notice by PZ In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <33672.52700.qm@web83308.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Wow. Just wow. --- On Mon, 10/19/09, Halvard Johnson?wrote: Something of interest: http://www.z-site.net/copyright-notice-by-pz/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd at ripon.edu Tue Oct 20 11:38:27 2009 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2009 10:38:27 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Objectivism & the miracle of taste In-Reply-To: <4ADDDBAF.3080509@nut-n-but.net> References: <6768ac830910192002i7266e4afsfbef2f57f767fb17@mail.gmail .com><6768ac830910192018p1a006bc3q85804790d3615b03@mail.gmail.com><4ADDA 543.4050302@nut-n-but.net> <4ADDDBAF.3080509@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: On Oct 20, 2009, at 10:47 AM, Bob Grumman wrote: > I'd say Zukofsky wrote a kind of free verse different from that of > most of his contemporaries--at least that's my impression, more from > what I've read about him than from reading him, which I haven't done > to much of an extent. It seems to me, though, that there was a > school of free verse that he and Williams (and others) were in, and > a sub-school of that school that he but not Williams was in, that > was a partial source-school of language poetry, another kind of > poetry, of which there are further kinds. > And I don't feel I'm making up "kinds of poetry" with only a few > members, or just one, each. > > --Bob ====================== Bob, there are books and books written about all this stuff--there are dissertations, conferences, courses, anthologies. Do a Google search on "Objectivist Poets" and the like, and you may learn some things. That is, if you're interested in a taxonomy that goes beyond "a kind of free verse." I keenly remember visiting a friend-of-a-friend when I was just out of college. His roommate was a poetry nut, and owned even more books than I did. So I went exploring. Turned out that it was one of those lightbulb moments for me, as I realized that although we both had plenty of poetry books, our bookshelves were almost mutually exclusive. He had, as I recall, no Wilbur, Hecht, Lowell, Hall, Simpson, Rich, Plath, Roethke, James Wright, Merwin, Bly, Kinnell, et al., just as I had no Zukofsky, Oppen, Dorn, Duncan, Olson, Eigner, et al. I was more or less *aware* of his poets, but had never read them much. We did have the Beats in common, some New York School, Levertov, and of course William Carlos Williams and Ezra Pound--the presiding spirits of *The New American Poetry 1945-1960*. Williams seemed then, and seems now, the pivotal figure to me. It was my first lesson in how, like Whitman, he can be claimed by very different heirs. Rather like Whitman in that respect. Any poet of equal interest to Robert Bly and Robert Lowell and Allen Ginsberg, you might say, is especially intriguing. I later came to some appreciation of more of the "New Americans," especially Duncan, Oppen, and Dorn, and O'Hara gradually become one of my favorite poets. But like Mike Snider, I never much cottoned to Zukofsky. Lord knows I've tried. Olson, too: I just tend to bounce off their work. So I guess Paul Z doesn't have to fear that I'll quote his dad. . . . ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.me.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Tue Oct 20 12:39:15 2009 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2009 11:39:15 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Copyright Notice by PZ In-Reply-To: <33672.52700.qm@web83308.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: <33672.52700.qm@web83308.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4ADDE7B3.8080807@nut-n-but.net> I finally read the thing. Hilarious! My first thought was that I would quickly quote a dozen poems of LZ at my blog--and try to get a few hundred other poetry bloggers to do the same. Then I had a more original inspiration: I should try to get Paul Zukofsky to organize a children of famous dead poets organization all of whose members would do as he has done! Then the academics would have to write about contemporary poets who could use the attention! Yes, I see the problem: it is that academics would never do that, they'd just find poets more dead than Louis Zukofsky to write about. --Bob From amyhappens at yahoo.com Tue Oct 20 12:07:50 2009 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king) Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2009 09:07:50 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Copyright Notice by PZ In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <150582.77136.qm@web83304.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Or at least cutting up his corpse and selling the bits for bits o' dough ... he's gross. ? ?And deserves to scramble after a million bloggers who post excerpts of A for national poetry month ...? --- On Mon, 10/19/09, Mark Weiss ?wrote:He used to make a living as a musician. I guess he's taken to cannibalizing his father instead. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From amanda at surkont.com Tue Oct 20 12:10:27 2009 From: amanda at surkont.com (Amanda Surkont) Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2009 09:10:27 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Copyright Notice by PZ In-Reply-To: <150582.77136.qm@web83304.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <118135.42618.qm@web1204.biz.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> LOL, Amy, --- On Tue, 10/20/09, amy king wrote: From: amy king Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Copyright Notice by PZ To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views" Date: Tuesday, October 20, 2009, 12:07 PM Or at least cutting up his corpse and selling the bits for bits o' dough .... he's gross. ? ?And deserves to scramble after a million bloggers who post excerpts of A for national poetry month ...? --- On Mon, 10/19/09, Mark Weiss ?wrote:He used to make a living as a musician. I guess he's taken to cannibalizing his father instead. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From c.a.b.daly at gmail.com Tue Oct 20 12:28:54 2009 From: c.a.b.daly at gmail.com (Catherine Daly) Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2009 09:28:54 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Copyright Notice by PZ In-Reply-To: <6768ac830910192002i7266e4afsfbef2f57f767fb17@mail.gmail.com> References: <6768ac830910192002i7266e4afsfbef2f57f767fb17@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: I'm amazed too, but also that he doesn't seem to know what fair use means. It doesn't really matter if he takes a narrow view of fair use, the truth is, fair use involves quotation. I was going to say, hah, just wait until the unpublished materials pop out of copyright, but it seems that copyright holders/literary executors can "publish" previously-unpublished materials before then and gain copyright. All he has to do is make a few copies of the unpublished material (hopefully mimeo, but hey) and give them to friends. Another loophole is published 1923-1976 without a copyright notice. I sort of have sympathy for the derivative work, although I have made a derivative work from A; because LZ's practice involved making derivative works, and CZ,s, musical settings -- for whatever reason, it seems that sort of work just inspires even more derivative works. -- All best, Catherine Daly c.a.b.daly at gmail.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Tue Oct 20 12:32:34 2009 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2009 12:32:34 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] books begone Message-ID: <8CC1FBA0FD9CCDC-781C-13E2E@webmail-d050.sysops.aol.com> http://www.boston.com/news/local/massachusetts/articles/2009/09/04/a_library_without_the_books/ When I look at books, I see an outdated technology, like scrolls before books,?? said James Tracy, headmaster of Cushing and chief promoter of the bookless campus. ?This isn?t ?Fahrenheit 451? [the 1953 Ray Bradbury novel in which books are banned]. We?re not discouraging students from reading. We see this as a natural way to shape emerging trends and optimize technology.?? Instead of a library, the academy is spending nearly $500,000 to create a ?learning center,?? though that is only one of the names in contention for the new space. In place of the stacks, they are spending $42,000 on three large flat-screen TVs that will project data from the Internet and $20,000 on special laptop-friendly study carrels. Where the reference desk was, they are building a $50,000 coffee shop that will include a $12,000 cappuccino machine. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From skip at louisiana.edu Tue Oct 20 12:38:37 2009 From: skip at louisiana.edu (Skip Fox) Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2009 11:38:37 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Copyright Notice by PZ In-Reply-To: <150582.77136.qm@web83304.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Mr. Zukofsky seems to be under the impression that people are using this father's work mainly to advance their careers. There are a number of us who might write about him who have nothing to gain except a better ranking on a merit evaluation (and we probably have enough publications anyway so that even that doesn't matter). Graduate students and young faculty members might write for such motives, but they usually wouldn't pick Louis Zukofsky unless they loved him. As I do. It makes me very sad (evening thinking at first that it sounded like a hoax) to hear this about (not just by) his son. I wonder what Lorine Niedecker would say? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From skip at louisiana.edu Tue Oct 20 12:43:49 2009 From: skip at louisiana.edu (Skip Fox) Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2009 11:43:49 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Objectivism & the miracle of taste In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <0B8067F9236E4E9AA41BC0F47776B63D@win.louisiana.edu> Zukofsky is a brilliant writer and A is an unheralded masterpiece, or it often rises to that level. I would direct your attention to Berry Ahern's very capable (and humble) guide to A: Zukofsky's "A": An Introduction (Berkeley: U of California P, 1983) wch is in paperback. -----Original Message----- From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of David Graham Sent: Tuesday, October 20, 2009 10:38 AM To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views Subject: [New-Poetry] Objectivism & the miracle of taste On Oct 20, 2009, at 10:47 AM, Bob Grumman wrote: I'd say Zukofsky wrote a kind of free verse different from that of most of his contemporaries--at least that's my impression, more from what I've read about him than from reading him, which I haven't done to much of an extent. It seems to me, though, that there was a school of free verse that he and Williams (and others) were in, and a sub-school of that school that he but not Williams was in, that was a partial source-school of language poetry, another kind of poetry, of which there are further kinds. And I don't feel I'm making up "kinds of poetry" with only a few members, or just one, each. --Bob ====================== Bob, there are books and books written about all this stuff--there are dissertations, conferences, courses, anthologies. Do a Google search on "Objectivist Poets" and the like, and you may learn some things. That is, if you're interested in a taxonomy that goes beyond "a kind of free verse." I keenly remember visiting a friend-of-a-friend when I was just out of college. His roommate was a poetry nut, and owned even more books than I did. So I went exploring. Turned out that it was one of those lightbulb moments for me, as I realized that although we both had plenty of poetry books, our bookshelves were almost mutually exclusive. He had, as I recall, no Wilbur, Hecht, Lowell, Hall, Simpson, Rich, Plath, Roethke, James Wright, Merwin, Bly, Kinnell, et al., just as I had no Zukofsky, Oppen, Dorn, Duncan, Olson, Eigner, et al. I was more or less *aware* of his poets, but had never read them much. We did have the Beats in common, some New York School, Levertov, and of course William Carlos Williams and Ezra Pound--the presiding spirits of *The New American Poetry 1945-1960*. Williams seemed then, and seems now, the pivotal figure to me. It was my first lesson in how, like Whitman, he can be claimed by very different heirs. Rather like Whitman in that respect. Any poet of equal interest to Robert Bly and Robert Lowell and Allen Ginsberg, you might say, is especially intriguing. I later came to some appreciation of more of the "New Americans," especially Duncan, Oppen, and Dorn, and O'Hara gradually become one of my favorite poets. But like Mike Snider, I never much cottoned to Zukofsky. Lord knows I've tried. Olson, too: I just tend to bounce off their work. So I guess Paul Z doesn't have to fear that I'll quote his dad. . . . ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.me.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd at ripon.edu Tue Oct 20 12:47:35 2009 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2009 11:47:35 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Copyright Notice by PZ In-Reply-To: References: <6768ac830910192002i7266e4afsfbef2f57f767fb17@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Yes indeed. And Fair Use is inherently fuzzy in its definition. And deliberately so, as far as I understand. Many publishers (and lawyers, of course) take a fairly narrow view of it, but that doesn't mean such claims would hold up in court, if they ever reached a court. My understanding is that the principle is intended to allow scholars and critics to quote brief amounts in the service of reviews, scholarship, and other legitimate academic activity; but not to allow anyone but the copyright holder to cash in on any profits. Among the factors that one is supposed to take into account is whether or not the entire work is quoted, or just a small portion; and if or not the quotation might deprive the copyright owner of any revenue. For poetry reviewers and critics one big question always surfaces: is it acceptable to quote a whole poem in an article or review? If not, how much may one quote under fair use? I've seen varying interpretations of that one. It's obviously done all the time, in print and online, and I assume one reason it's seldom prosecuted is that, with poetry, there's almost no profit motive. I recently had a request for permission to quote from an essay I'd written, and the author was using just a couple brief passages, not even whole sentences. I wrote him to give permission, but remarked that it seemed well within Fair Use guidelines even under the strictest reading of them. He said he agreed, but was just being cautious. It's a real problem, I think. Most experts will tell you that if there's any doubt, just seek permission. But that doesn't help much in defining the line between fair & unfair. ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.me.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== On Oct 20, 2009, at 11:28 AM, Catherine Daly wrote: > I'm amazed too, but also that he doesn't seem to know what fair use > means. It doesn't really matter if he takes a narrow view of fair > use, the truth is, fair use involves quotation. > . . . . > > Catherine Daly -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Tue Oct 20 13:48:52 2009 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2009 12:48:52 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Objectivism & the miracle of taste In-Reply-To: References: <6768ac830910192002i7266e4afsfbef2f57f767fb17@mail.gmail .com><6768ac830910192018p1a006bc3q85804790d3615b03@mail.gmail.com><4ADDA5 43.4050302@nut-n-but.net><4ADDDBAF.3080509@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <4ADDF804.3050903@nut-n-but.net> David Graham wrote: > > > On Oct 20, 2009, at 10:47 AM, Bob Grumman wrote: > >> I'd say Zukofsky wrote a kind of free verse different from that of >> most of his contemporaries--at least that's my impression, more from >> what I've read about him than from reading him, which I haven't done >> to much of an extent. It seems to me, though, that there was a >> school of free verse that he and Williams (and others) were in, and a >> sub-school of that school that he but not Williams was in, that was a >> partial source-school of language poetry, another kind of poetry, of >> which there are further kinds. >> And I don't feel I'm making up "kinds of poetry" with only a few >> members, or just one, each. >> >> --Bob > ====================== > > Bob, there are books and books written about all this stuff--there are > dissertations, conferences, courses, anthologies. Do a Google search > on "Objectivist Poets" and the like, and you may learn some things. > That is, if you're interested in a taxonomy that goes beyond "a kind > of free verse." > Not being an academic, I often have some general thought I don't pin irrelevancies to before exposing to Important Figures in Poetry like you, David. So when I made my quick post, I didn't think of objectivism, which I did know about, although I don't read books or dissertations about such stuff or attend conference or courses about it. All I need is New-Poetry. > I keenly remember visiting a friend-of-a-friend when I was just out of > college. His roommate was a poetry nut, and owned even more books > than I did. So I went exploring. Turned out that it was one of those > lightbulb moments for me, as I realized that although we both had > plenty of poetry books, our bookshelves were almost mutually > exclusive. He had, as I recall, no Wilbur, Hecht, Lowell, Hall, > Simpson, Rich, Plath, Roethke, James Wright, Merwin, Bly, Kinnell, et > al., just as I had no Zukofsky, Oppen, Dorn, Duncan, Olson, Eigner, et > al. I was more or less *aware* of his poets, but had never read them > much. So you agree Zukofsky wrote "a kind of poetry" that is worthy of the term "kind?" His poetry hasn't yet truly clicked with me, either, by the way, but he was the one who got me started as a mathematical poet. I wrote a piece on Oppen for /American Book Review/ and liked some of his poems, but never became a big fan of his, or any of the objectivist poets. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Tue Oct 20 12:56:18 2009 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2009 12:56:18 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Copyright Notice by PZ In-Reply-To: <33672.52700.qm@web83308.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <8CC1FBD6052A99C-781C-14517@webmail-d050.sysops.aol.com> Could be a plot to increase interest in LZ's works. Tell people 'Hands off' and watch as the literary filching increases. -----Original Message----- From: amy king To: halvard at gmail.com; NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views Sent: Tue, Oct 20, 2009 11:08 am Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Copyright Notice by PZ Wow. Just wow. --- On Mon, 10/19/09, Halvard Johnson wrote: Something of interest: http://www.z-site.net/copyright-notice-by-pz/ _______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From skip at louisiana.edu Tue Oct 20 12:57:10 2009 From: skip at louisiana.edu (Skip Fox) Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2009 11:57:10 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Copyright Notice by PZ In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <2F5A84A78DB3402EA7070E5064E98186@win.louisiana.edu> I wonder how the main library (Austin?) that holds Zukofsky's manuscripts feels about his son's meagerness. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cervantes.james at gmail.com Tue Oct 20 13:12:22 2009 From: cervantes.james at gmail.com (James Cervantes) Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2009 10:12:22 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] books begone In-Reply-To: <8CC1FBA0FD9CCDC-781C-13E2E@webmail-d050.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CC1FBA0FD9CCDC-781C-13E2E@webmail-d050.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <648208b60910201012x675de6c7q130c1cd819fb9cc8@mail.gmail.com> On Tue, Oct 20, 2009 at 9:32 AM, wrote: > > http://www.boston.com/news/local/massachusetts/articles/2009/09/04/a_library_without_the_books/ > > When I look at books, I see an outdated technology, like scrolls before > books,?? said James Tracy, headmaster of Cushing and chief promoter of the > bookless campus. ?This isn?t ?Fahrenheit 451? [the 1953 Ray Bradbury novel > in which books are banned]. We?re not discouraging students from reading. We > see this as a natural way to shape emerging trends and optimize > technology.?? > > Instead of a library, the academy is spending nearly $500,000 to create a > ?learning center,?? though that is only one of the names in contention for > the new space. In place of the stacks, they are spending $42,000 on three > large flat-screen TVs that will project data from the Internet and $20,000 > on special laptop-friendly study carrels. Where the reference desk was, they > are building a $50,000 coffee shop that will include a $12,000 cappuccino > machine. > And to hell with silence. -- Jim ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning http://www.fieralingue.it/documenti/mr_bondo.pdf http://www.poetserv.org/jvc/home/index.html http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamescervantes/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From amanda at surkont.com Tue Oct 20 13:16:10 2009 From: amanda at surkont.com (Amanda Surkont) Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2009 10:16:10 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Copyright Notice by PZ In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <243445.70241.qm@web1214.biz.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> The ?"heart of the work" comes into play here; alwaya consider what the heart of the work is...?best, manda --- On Tue, 10/20/09, David Graham wrote: From: David Graham Subject: [New-Poetry] Copyright Notice by PZ To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views" Date: Tuesday, October 20, 2009, 12:47 PM Yes indeed. ?And Fair Use is inherently fuzzy in its definition. ?And deliberately so, as far as I understand. ?Many publishers (and lawyers, of course) take a fairly narrow view of it, but that doesn't mean such claims would hold up in court, if they ever reached a court. ?My understanding is that the principle is intended to allow scholars and critics to quote brief amounts in the service of reviews, scholarship, and other legitimate academic activity; but not to allow anyone but the copyright holder to cash in on any profits. ? Among the factors that one is supposed to take into account is whether or not the entire work is quoted, or just a small portion; and if or not the quotation might deprive the copyright owner of any revenue. ? For poetry reviewers and critics one big question always surfaces: ?is it acceptable to quote a whole poem in an article or review? ?If not, how much may one quote under fair use? ?I've seen varying interpretations of that one. ?It's obviously done all the time, in print and online, and I assume one reason it's seldom prosecuted is that, with poetry, there's almost no profit motive. ? I recently had a request for permission to quote from an essay I'd written, and the author was using just a couple brief passages, not even whole sentences. ?I wrote him to give permission, but remarked that it seemed well within Fair Use guidelines even under the strictest reading of them. ?He said he agreed, but was just being cautious. It's a real problem, I think. ?Most experts will tell you that if there's any doubt, just seek permission. ?But that doesn't help much in defining the line between fair & unfair. ========================================David Grahamgrahamd at ripon.edu Home Page:http://web.me.com/drjazz Poetry Library:http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html========================================== On Oct 20, 2009, at 11:28 AM, Catherine Daly wrote: I'm amazed too, but also that he doesn't seem to know what fair use means. ?It doesn't really matter if he takes a narrow view of fair use, the truth is, fair use involves quotation.. . . . Catherine Daly -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Tue Oct 20 13:16:11 2009 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2009 13:16:11 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Copyright Notice by PZ In-Reply-To: <2F5A84A78DB3402EA7070E5064E98186@win.louisiana.edu> Message-ID: <8CC1FC027D4A89C-781C-14AE5@webmail-d050.sysops.aol.com> http://kulturindustrie.blogspot.com/ Mark Scroggins wrote a recent biography of LZ. Somehow he must have found kinder gentler PZ or he (or his publisher) just paid thru the nose for rights. See note on Jacket 30, which was chockful of LZ... http://jacketmagazine.com/30/index.shtml Sample so something redacted... http://jacketmagazine.com/30/z-lang.html Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: Skip Fox Sent: Tue, Oct 20, 2009 12:57 pm Subject: RE: [New-Poetry] Copyright Notice by PZ I wonder how the main library (Austin?) that holds Zukofsky?s manuscripts feels about his son?s meagerness. _______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Tue Oct 20 13:47:24 2009 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2009 19:47:24 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Copyright Notice by PZ In-Reply-To: <8CC1FC027D4A89C-781C-14AE5@webmail-d050.sysops.aol.com> References: <2F5A84A78DB3402EA7070E5064E98186@win.louisiana.edu> <8CC1FC027D4A89C-781C-14AE5@webmail-d050.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <4b65c2d70910201047n6612007dwec779a04d4a49e5f@mail.gmail.com> I have that book somewhere. I would like to confirm what you all said before. It is very sad. And besides that, quotations and mentions on blogs can't but raise curiosity and lead potential readers to buy LZ's books. I remember asking Mary de Rachewiltz to sign her book and I told her that I had bought it second hand, to which she commented,* I understand now why I do not receive any royalties*... In the sense that you cannot enter the literary business with the mind of a manager, it just messes up everything and to your own detriment. On Tue, Oct 20, 2009 at 7:16 PM, wrote: > http://kulturindustrie.blogspot.com/ > Mark Scroggins wrote a recent biography of LZ. Somehow he must have found > kinder gentler PZ or he (or his publisher) just paid thru the nose for > rights. > > See note on Jacket 30, which was chockful of LZ... > http://jacketmagazine.com/30/index.shtml > Sample so something redacted... > http://jacketmagazine.com/30/z-lang.html > > Finnegan > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Skip Fox > Sent: Tue, Oct 20, 2009 12:57 pm > Subject: RE: [New-Poetry] Copyright Notice by PZ > > I wonder how the main library (Austin?) that holds Zukofsky?s > manuscripts feels about his son?s meagerness. > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing listNew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.eduhttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > = > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wwmorgan at ilstu.edu Tue Oct 20 14:04:46 2009 From: wwmorgan at ilstu.edu (Bill Morgan) Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2009 13:04:46 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] dying for bad poetry In-Reply-To: <4b65c2d70910200438l2f8c4f59p2adfe0af7bd14d6a@mail.gmail.com> References: <8CC1F2D6419BB27-15A8-1674@webmail-m055.sysops.aol.com> <731bb17a0910200428l683c024blb5f191ede3a01418@mail.gmail.com> <4b65c2d70910200438l2f8c4f59p2adfe0af7bd14d6a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <01bc01ca51af$cf624110$6e26c330$@edu> Anny Ballardini wrote: Verdi's Requiem will never be matched. His greatest opera, someone has said. It's an incredibly powerful piece that taps into Verdi's career-long attraction to abjection. Can't beat the text of the Requiem mass for fear and trembling. Bill Morgan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Tue Oct 20 15:13:05 2009 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2009 14:13:05 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] dying for bad poetry In-Reply-To: <01bc01ca51af$cf624110$6e26c330$@edu> References: <8CC1F2D6419BB27-15A8-1674@webmail-m055.sysops.aol.com><731bb17a0910200428l683c024blb5f191ede3a01418@mail.gmail.com>< 4b65c2d70910200438l2f8c4f59p2adfe0af7bd14d6a@mail.gmail.com> <01bc01ca51af$cf624110$6e26c330$@edu> Message-ID: <4ADE0BC1.9050704@nut-n-but.net> Bill Morgan wrote: > > Anny Ballardini wrote: > > > > Verdi's Requiem will never be matched. > > His greatest opera, someone has said. It's an incredibly powerful > piece that taps into Verdi's career-long attraction to abjection. > Can't beat the text of the Requiem mass for fear and trembling. > > Bill Morgan > Aah, how can anything an Italian wrote be any good? Anonymous -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From skip at louisiana.edu Tue Oct 20 14:24:44 2009 From: skip at louisiana.edu (Skip Fox) Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2009 13:24:44 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Copyright Notice by PZ In-Reply-To: <2F5A84A78DB3402EA7070E5064E98186@win.louisiana.edu> Message-ID: <107BA2BF988C46A0BDDFC4C50A6F65D3@win.louisiana.edu> It's even sadder then one realizes that the frame of Zukofsky's lovely Bottom, On Shakespeare (what succulence of prose is this?) consists of an extended discussion with Paul on the role (majesty) of sight in Shakespeare, wherein "love hath reason, reason none." What reason hath Paul? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From c.a.b.daly at gmail.com Tue Oct 20 14:31:37 2009 From: c.a.b.daly at gmail.com (Catherine Daly) Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2009 11:31:37 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] poems up at fringe magaszine Message-ID: up today http://www.fringemagazine.org/ -- All best, Catherine Daly c.a.b.daly at gmail.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at gmail.com Tue Oct 20 14:55:50 2009 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2009 13:55:50 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Copyright Notice by PZ In-Reply-To: <107BA2BF988C46A0BDDFC4C50A6F65D3@win.louisiana.edu> References: <2F5A84A78DB3402EA7070E5064E98186@win.louisiana.edu> <107BA2BF988C46A0BDDFC4C50A6F65D3@win.louisiana.edu> Message-ID: Hmm, seems that when PZ fiddles, the poetry world burns. Hal "Lists are a form of cultural hysteria." --Don DeLillo Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org On Tue, Oct 20, 2009 at 1:24 PM, Skip Fox wrote: > It?s even sadder then one realizes that the frame of Zukofsky?s lovely *Bottom, > On Shakespeare* (*what succulence of prose is this*?) consists of an > extended discussion with Paul on the role (majesty) of sight in Shakespeare, > wherein ?love hath reason, reason none.? > > > > What reason hath Paul? > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Tue Oct 20 15:24:48 2009 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2009 21:24:48 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] poems up at fringe magaszine In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4b65c2d70910201224x5f78a547hfb1372b6b465b2f0@mail.gmail.com> Beautiful work! On Tue, Oct 20, 2009 at 8:31 PM, Catherine Daly wrote: > up today > http://www.fringemagazine.org/ > > > -- > All best, > Catherine Daly > c.a.b.daly at gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From c.a.b.daly at gmail.com Tue Oct 20 15:40:35 2009 From: c.a.b.daly at gmail.com (Catherine Daly) Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2009 12:40:35 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] poems up at fringe magaszine In-Reply-To: <4b65c2d70910201224x5f78a547hfb1372b6b465b2f0@mail.gmail.com> References: <4b65c2d70910201224x5f78a547hfb1372b6b465b2f0@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: thanks; the whole chapbook's supposed to be up at scantily clad soon. -- All best, Catherine Daly c.a.b.daly at gmail.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tony at starve.org Tue Oct 20 15:47:06 2009 From: tony at starve.org (Tony Trigilio) Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2009 14:47:06 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Copyright Notice by PZ In-Reply-To: <8CC1FC027D4A89C-781C-14AE5@webmail-d050.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CC1FC027D4A89C-781C-14AE5@webmail-d050.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <4ADE13BA.4070902@starve.org> I don't know if Mark Scroggins paid through the nose, but I wondered about this, too. Part of what will discourage adaptations of LZ, and critical work on LZ, is the fact that PZ can charge anything he wants for rights. He can make them free to scholars and artists who will make little or no profit on their critical works and adaptations. Or he could charge the same amount for permissions to these folks that he might charge, say, to a Hollywood director who might want to make a biopic on LZ for a major studio (maybe not the best hypothetical example, but it's the first one that comes to my head re: the use of LZ's work that could generate the user a substantial profit). I wouldn't argue against PZ's desire to generate profit from his ownership of the rights. But I wonder if his interpretation of "fair use" is used fairly to distinguish between those works on/about LZ that will make little or no money and those that will, realistically, stand a chance to turn a profit. I keep coming back to Anny's post, too: "quotations and mentions on blogs can't but raise curiosity and lead potential readers to buy LZ's books." PZ says to "never never ever tell me that your work is to be valued by me because it promotes my father." OK, he's drawn the line -- don't tell him this. But he couldn't be more incorrect. As Anny notes, work on LZ cannot help but create new readers. And PZ proudly compares himself to J. Edgar Hoover at the end of his notice? Ouch. Best, Tony jforjames at aol.com wrote: > http://kulturindustrie.blogspot.com/ > Mark Scroggins wrote a recent biography of LZ. Somehow he must have > found kinder gentler PZ or he (or his publisher) just paid thru the > nose for rights. > > See note on Jacket 30, which was chockful of LZ... > http://jacketmagazine.com/30/index.shtml > Sample so something redacted... > http://jacketmagazine.com/30/z-lang.html > > Finnegan > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Skip Fox > Sent: Tue, Oct 20, 2009 12:57 pm > Subject: RE: [New-Poetry] Copyright Notice by PZ > > I wonder how the main library (Austin?) that holds Zukofsky?s > manuscripts feels about his son?s meagerness. > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > = > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Tue Oct 20 16:10:49 2009 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2009 22:10:49 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] 21 Stars REview Complete Anthology PDF Download Message-ID: <4b65c2d70910201310l6d418800v83ac70b9c6b38f92@mail.gmail.com> Skip Fox, Dennis Barone, Halvard Johnson, Jeff Harrison, ... http://www.sundress.net/21stars/# -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Opus40-01 at opus40.org Tue Oct 20 16:16:32 2009 From: Opus40-01 at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2009 16:16:32 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] poems up at fringe magaszine In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4ADE1AA0.2030104@opus40.org> Good stuff. Catherine Daly wrote: > up today > > http://www.fringemagazine.org/ > > > -- > All best, > Catherine Daly > c.a.b.daly at gmail.com > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Tad Richards Read my NY Writing Careers Examiner column today! http://www.examiner.com/x-2862-NY-Writing-Careers-Examiner http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ From skip at louisiana.edu Tue Oct 20 16:35:11 2009 From: skip at louisiana.edu (Skip Fox) Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2009 15:35:11 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Copyright Notice by PZ In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1B6C81141ED9405D9D8E0FF07A6BB000@win.louisiana.edu> Paul was supposedly a "noted violinist and composer." One likes to think such people will not cultivate, much less prance, paucity of vision, but . . . well, the older I get, the more I don't know. -----Original Message----- From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Halvard Johnson Sent: Tuesday, October 20, 2009 1:56 PM To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &,Views Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Copyright Notice by PZ Hmm, seems that when PZ fiddles, the poetry world burns. Hal "Lists are a form of cultural hysteria." --Don DeLillo Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org On Tue, Oct 20, 2009 at 1:24 PM, Skip Fox wrote: It's even sadder then one realizes that the frame of Zukofsky's lovely Bottom, On Shakespeare (what succulence of prose is this?) consists of an extended discussion with Paul on the role (majesty) of sight in Shakespeare, wherein "love hath reason, reason none." What reason hath Paul? _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at gmail.com Tue Oct 20 18:00:28 2009 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2009 17:00:28 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: FW: deaf student and scansion In-Reply-To: <4ADDA6B1.10803@nut-n-but.net> References: <46F2CD7A5B96441FA3A51C8F25944AC9@RobinLaptopPC> <4AD3B321.6020805@nut-n-but.net> <4AD468E9.3070902@nut-n-but.net> <7db1d01b0910170524v7a90b859h9b36d338a0c3670b@mail.gmail.com> <4ADDA6B1.10803@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: Meaning what, Bob? Hal "Lists are a form of cultural hysteria." --Don DeLillo Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org On Tue, Oct 20, 2009 at 7:01 AM, Bob Grumman wrote: > Judy Prince wrote: > > Still on this thread, but again responding in general. > > > > Visiting Glasgow this week [my first time!], I'm hearing musical Glaswegian > speech and thinking about speech, poetry, and music---especially about > comparing how music and poetry are "measured" and figuring out what > qualities make speech/ poetry ?musical?. > > > > First, obvious observations about measuring music and poetry: > > > > 1] Music notation and metrics [poem notation] both use *duration *and*dynamics > *as ways to measure---but music notation measures primarily the duration > [faster, slower] of pitches, whereas metrics measures mainly the dynamics > [loud/soft] of word parts. > > > > 2] Both notation systems use a fundamental unit based upon a "beat". In > music, the beats are called ?notes? and represent *pitches*. In poems, > the beats are *syllables* and represent the briefest [and usually > combinations] of soft [ie, vowel or open] and hard [ie, consonant or closed] > sounds. > > > > Recap: Music notation mainly measures the* duration* [faster or slower] > of *pitches, *whereas metrics primarily measures the *dynamics* [louder or > softer] of *syllables*. > > > > What qualities make speech or poetry sound ?musical?? Probably every > quality, actually. Are there some qualities of speech/poetry that make > them sound more musical than other kinds of speech/poetry? > > > > I?ve already said that Glaswegian speech/poetry sounds musical to me. Of > course, I mean that it sounds more musical than my own USAmerican > speech/poetry and the English I hear in the UK. A quick survey of what I > think makes Glaswegian speech seem musical: a broader range of, and more > contrast in, pitches and dynamics, as well as a ?rolling? ?r?. > > > > By now you?ve sussed that rather than saying Glaswegian speech/poetry is > more musical than the others, I should say that Glaswegian sounds like a * > different* *kind* of music than USAmerican and English English. > > > > Let me bring together all of the above observations with some examples of > Chinese speech. I once heard a Chinese speaker say that USAmericans > always told him they despaired at trying to manage the stressed syllables in > Chinese. He?d reply: ?But Chinese has only four kinds of stressed > syllables, whereas English has hundreds, perhaps thousands!? > > > > He was right, but that didn?t make the USAmericans better able to manage > those four stresses [called ?tones?]. They had to learn *which*word-syllable had > *which* of the four tones---or else the word would mean something entirely > different. For example, you could say ?ma? in one tone and it means > ?horse?, in another tone and it means ?hair?, and in another tone it means > you?re asking a question. > > > > One more difficulty for USAmericans learning to speak Chinese is that each > of the four stresses comprises a distinct combination of *pitch*, * > duration*, and *dynamics.* > > * * > > Here?s a schema for the four tones using the word-syllable ?ma?: > > Tone 1: high unvarying sound [like a high hum] > > Tone 2: middle pitched rising to high [e.g., ?ma?, as if you?re about to > ask your mother a question] > > Tone 3: same as 2 except starting at a much lower pitch [as if you were > angry at your mother] > > Tone 4: sharp, falling sound [like saying ?SHIT!?] > > > > Try saying ?ma? in each of the four tones. Each of those four ?ma? sounds > represents an entirely different meaning [horse?hair?]. > > > > A final observation. To me, Chinese speech resembles the sounds of > traditional Chinese musical instruments. I wonder if the speech was > fashioned after the music, or vice versa. Does English resemble English > musical instrument sounds? > > > > I wonder why Glaswegian speakers don?t sound like bagpipes being played. > > > > > Best, > > > > Judy > > You're being way too analytical, Judy. You're trying to be rational about > a Great Mystery. All we can meaningfully say about music and poetry is that > they are sacred. > > --Bob > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Tue Oct 20 19:15:54 2009 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2009 18:15:54 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: FW: deaf student and scansion In-Reply-To: References: <46F2CD7A5B96441FA3A51C8F25944A C9@RobinLaptopPC><4AD3B321.6020805@nut-n-but.net> <4AD468E9.3070902@nut-n-but.net><7db1d01b0910170524v7a90b859h9b36d338a0c3670b@mail.gmail.com><4ADDA6B1.10803@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <4ADE44AA.2000106@nut-n-but.net> Halvard Johnson wrote: > Meaning what, Bob? > > Hal > > Precisely. --Bob > > > > On Tue, Oct 20, 2009 at 7:01 AM, Bob Grumman > wrote: > > Judy Prince wrote: >> >> Still on this thread, but again responding in general. >> >> >> >> Visiting Glasgow this week [my first time!], I'm hearing musical >> Glaswegian speech and thinking about speech, poetry, and >> music---especially about comparing how music and poetry are >> "measured" and figuring out what qualities make speech/ poetry >> ?musical?. >> >> >> >> First, obvious observations about measuring music and poetry: >> >> >> >> 1] Music notation and metrics [poem notation] both use *duration >> *and* dynamics *as ways to measure---but music notation measures >> primarily the duration [faster, slower] of pitches, whereas >> metrics measures mainly the dynamics [loud/soft] of word parts. >> >> >> >> 2] Both notation systems use a fundamental unit based upon a >> "beat". In music, the beats are called ?notes? and represent >> *pitches*. In poems, the beats are *syllables* and represent the >> briefest [and usually combinations] of soft [ie, vowel or open] >> and hard [ie, consonant or closed] sounds. >> >> >> >> Recap: Music notation mainly measures the* duration* [faster or >> slower] of *pitches, *whereas metrics primarily measures the >> *dynamics* [louder or softer] of *syllables*. >> >> >> >> What qualities make speech or poetry sound ?musical?? Probably >> every quality, actually. Are there some qualities of >> speech/poetry that make them sound more musical than other kinds >> of speech/poetry? >> >> >> >> I?ve already said that Glaswegian speech/poetry sounds musical to >> me. Of course, I mean that it sounds more musical than my own >> USAmerican speech/poetry and the English I hear in the UK. A >> quick survey of what I think makes Glaswegian speech seem >> musical: a broader range of, and more contrast in, pitches and >> dynamics, as well as a ?rolling? ?r?. >> >> >> >> By now you?ve sussed that rather than saying Glaswegian >> speech/poetry is more musical than the others, I should say that >> Glaswegian sounds like a *different* *kind* of music than >> USAmerican and English English. >> >> >> >> Let me bring together all of the above observations with some >> examples of Chinese speech. I once heard a Chinese speaker say >> that USAmericans always told him they despaired at trying to >> manage the stressed syllables in Chinese. He?d reply: ?But >> Chinese has only four kinds of stressed syllables, whereas >> English has hundreds, perhaps thousands!? >> >> >> >> He was right, but that didn?t make the USAmericans better able to >> manage those four stresses [called ?tones?]. They had to learn >> *which* word-syllable had *which* of the four tones---or else the >> word would mean something entirely different. For example, you >> could say ?ma? in one tone and it means ?horse?, in another tone >> and it means ?hair?, and in another tone it means you?re asking a >> question. >> >> >> >> One more difficulty for USAmericans learning to speak Chinese is >> that each of the four stresses comprises a distinct combination >> of *pitch*, *duration*, and *dynamics.* >> >> * * >> >> Here?s a schema for the four tones using the word-syllable ?ma?: >> >> Tone 1: high unvarying sound [like a high hum] >> >> Tone 2: middle pitched rising to high [e.g., ?ma?, as if you?re >> about to ask your mother a question] >> >> Tone 3: same as 2 except starting at a much lower pitch [as if >> you were angry at your mother] >> >> Tone 4: sharp, falling sound [like saying ?SHIT!?] >> >> >> >> Try saying ?ma? in each of the four tones. Each of those four >> ?ma? sounds represents an entirely different meaning [horse?hair?]. >> >> >> >> A final observation. To me, Chinese speech resembles the sounds >> of traditional Chinese musical instruments. I wonder if the >> speech was fashioned after the music, or vice versa. Does >> English resemble English musical instrument sounds? >> >> >> >> I wonder why Glaswegian speakers don?t sound like bagpipes being >> played. >> >> >> >> Best, >> >> >> >> Judy >> > You're being way too analytical, Judy. You're trying to be > rational about a Great Mystery. All we can meaningfully say about > music and poetry is that they are sacred. > > --Bob > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at gmail.com Tue Oct 20 18:29:09 2009 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2009 17:29:09 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Copyright Notice by PZ In-Reply-To: <1B6C81141ED9405D9D8E0FF07A6BB000@win.louisiana.edu> References: <1B6C81141ED9405D9D8E0FF07A6BB000@win.louisiana.edu> Message-ID: "Supposedly" a violinist and composer? I don't know any of his compositions, but he was definitely a violinist and a conductor. His recording of William Schuman's violin concerto (with MT Thomas and the Boston Sym. Orch.) was the first of that piece. Here's a bit of info on his musical life and interests. http://www.enotes.com/music-encyclopedia/zukofsky-paul Hal "Lists are a form of cultural hysteria." --Don DeLillo Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org On Tue, Oct 20, 2009 at 3:35 PM, Skip Fox wrote: > Paul was supposedly a ?noted violinist and composer.? One likes to think > such people will not cultivate, much less prance, paucity of vision, but . . > . well, the older I get, the more I don?t know. > > > > -----Original Message----- > *From:* new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto: > new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] *On Behalf Of *Halvard Johnson > *Sent:* Tuesday, October 20, 2009 1:56 PM > *To:* NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &,Views > *Subject:* Re: [New-Poetry] Copyright Notice by PZ > > > > Hmm, seems that when PZ fiddles, the poetry world burns. > > Hal > > "Lists are a form of cultural hysteria." > --Don DeLillo > > Halvard Johnson > ================ > halvard at gmail.com > http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > http://www.hamiltonstone.org > > > > > On Tue, Oct 20, 2009 at 1:24 PM, Skip Fox wrote: > > It?s even sadder then one realizes that the frame of Zukofsky?s lovely *Bottom, > On Shakespeare* (*what succulence of prose is this*?) consists of an > extended discussion with Paul on the role (majesty) of sight in Shakespeare, > wherein ?love hath reason, reason none.? > > > > What reason hath Paul? > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at gmail.com Tue Oct 20 18:32:19 2009 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2009 17:32:19 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] dying for bad poetry In-Reply-To: <4b65c2d70910200438l2f8c4f59p2adfe0af7bd14d6a@mail.gmail.com> References: <8CC1F2D6419BB27-15A8-1674@webmail-m055.sysops.aol.com> <731bb17a0910200428l683c024blb5f191ede3a01418@mail.gmail.com> <4b65c2d70910200438l2f8c4f59p2adfe0af7bd14d6a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Given those of Mozart, Beethoven, Berlioz, Brahms, Faure, Verdi, Penderecki, and others, I'm glad we'll never need a run-off. Hal "Lists are a form of cultural hysteria." --Don DeLillo Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org On Tue, Oct 20, 2009 at 6:38 AM, Anny Ballardini wrote: > Verdi's Requiem will never be matched. > > On Tue, Oct 20, 2009 at 1:28 PM, Jeff Newberry wrote: > >> How incredibly sad. >> >> Jeff Newberry >> >> On Mon, Oct 19, 2009 at 7:45 PM, wrote: >> >>> http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/faith/article6881679.ece >>> ?I have then stood at the crem like a lemon, wondering why on earth I am >>> present at the funeral of somebody led in by the tunes of Tina Turner, >>> summed up in pithy platitudes of sentimental and secular poets and sent into >>> the furnace with *I Did it my Way* blaring out across the speakers!? >>> >>> This year Co-operative Funeralcare found that nearly six in ten people in >>> England and Wales chose pop music over traditional hymns for funerals, with >>> *My Way* sung by Frank Sinatra or Shirley Bassey the favourite. >>> >>> ?Once upon a time the beautiful Requiem Mass would >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> New-Poetry mailing list >>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>> >>> >> >> >> -- >> You cannot tell people what to do, you can only tell them parables; and >> that is what art really is, particular stories of particular people and >> experience, from which each according to his own immediate and peculiar >> needs may draw his own conclusion. --W.H. Auden >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > > > -- > Anny Ballardini > http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ > http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome > http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 > http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html > I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing > star! > Friedrich Nietzsche > > ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique > vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? > Giovenale > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chris at chrislott.org Tue Oct 20 18:36:26 2009 From: chris at chrislott.org (Chris Lott) Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2009 14:36:26 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] Copyright Notice by PZ In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Ridiculous. What it makes me want to do-- and what I WILL do in a few weeks when I have time-- is to seed any and all Z poetry I can find far and wide on anonymous sites, torrent networks, open blogs and wikis, you name it. If this little prick (sorry, just going by what his words tell me about him) wants to dare someone to light a match... c On Mon, Oct 19, 2009 at 3:26 PM, Halvard Johnson wrote: > Something of interest: > > http://www.z-site.net/copyright-notice-by-pz/ > > > Hal > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > From amyhappens at yahoo.com Tue Oct 20 18:38:36 2009 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king) Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2009 15:38:36 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] poems up at fringe magaszine In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <247878.32950.qm@web83305.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> I like this bit: rare, novel stinking hellbore wort to cure worms? _______ NEW BOOK Slaves to Do These Things -- http://www.blazevox.org/bk-ak3.htm -- For a review copy, please email me directly. --- On Tue, 10/20/09, Catherine Daly wrote: From: Catherine Daly Subject: [New-Poetry] poems up at fringe magaszine To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &, Views" Date: Tuesday, October 20, 2009, 2:31 PM up today http://www.fringemagazine.org/ -- All best, Catherine Daly c.a.b.daly at gmail.com -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Tue Oct 20 19:02:27 2009 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2009 19:02:27 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Copyright Notice by PZ In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8CC1FF0873B389C-2D50-79EB@webmail-m020.sysops.aol.com> I've already had a little fun with PZ's scare tactics... http://ursprache.blogspot.com/ -----Original Message----- From: Chris Lott Sent: Tue, Oct 20, 2009 6:36 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Copyright Notice by PZ Ridiculous. What it makes me want to do-- and what I WILL do in a few eeks when I have time-- is to seed any and all Z poetry I can find ar and wide on anonymous sites, torrent networks, open blogs and ikis, you name it. If this little prick (sorry, just going by what is words tell me about him) wants to dare someone to light a match... c On Mon, Oct 19, 2009 at 3:26 PM, Halvard Johnson wrote: Something of interest: http://www.z-site.net/copyright-notice-by-pz/ Hal _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry ______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From amyhappens at yahoo.com Tue Oct 20 21:50:14 2009 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king) Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2009 18:50:14 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] books begone In-Reply-To: <8CC1FBA0FD9CCDC-781C-13E2E@webmail-d050.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <799197.35399.qm@web83307.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Coincidentally right after I read this article, I rec'd an email from B&N regarding their throwback at Kindle, the "nook," which looks pretty good on virtual tour:http://www.barnesandnoble.com/nook/index.asp?r=1&cm_mmc=Non-Member-_-Merch-_-091020_NF01_Device1-_-na I've never once looked at the Kindle tour, assuming there is one, nor am I an advocate for the demise of libraries. ?It certainly does sound like a streamlined version of book burning when we're talking about entire schools... I'm all for understanding and incorporating the new literacy that has grown up on being wired in, but really, mediums coexist and books have quite well served for such a long time; why is the mentality so either/or? ?Because idiots are corporately-infused. ?I bet the dismantler himself is getting some sort of "perk." Off to read the paper mentioned in the article:http://www.hks.harvard.edu/presspol/publications/papers/discussion_papers/d39_powers.pdf --- On Tue, 10/20/09, jforjames at aol.com?wrote: http://www.boston.com/news/local/massachusetts/articles/2009/09/04/a_library_without_the_books/ ? When I look at books, I see an outdated technology, like scrolls before books,?? said James Tracy, headmaster of Cushing and chief promoter of the bookless campus. ?This isn?t ?Fahrenheit 451? [the 1953 Ray Bradbury novel in which books are banned]. We?re not discouraging students from reading. We see this as a natural way to shape emerging trends and optimize technology.?? ? Instead of a library, the academy is spending nearly $500,000 to create a ?learning center,?? though that is only one of the names in contention for the new space. In place of the stacks, they are spending $42,000 on three large flat-screen TVs that will project data from the Internet and $20,000 on special laptop-friendly study carrels. Where the reference desk was, they are building a $50,000 coffee shop that will include a $12,000 cappuccino machine. ? __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jfq at myuw.net Tue Oct 20 22:34:43 2009 From: jfq at myuw.net (Jason Quackenbush) Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2009 19:34:43 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Copyright Notice by PZ In-Reply-To: <8CC1FF0873B389C-2D50-79EB@webmail-m020.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CC1FF0873B389C-2D50-79EB@webmail-m020.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: the guy's clearly a crank. fair use may be broadly defined but no court, or lawyer for that matter, gives a flying fuck how narrowly Paul Zukofsky views the doctrine of fair use. it doesn't matter how much you use, what matters is your purpose. if the purpose is critical work, and it's published by a university press or journal, no court is going to call that copyright infringement and very few if any copyright lawyers will take the case. lawyers filing suits without merit are subject to severe punitive sanctions at the discretion of the court. filing a suit against some scholar who quoted zukofsky without securing permission would be like begging a judge to slap you with huge monetary sanctions. Paul Zukofsky would know this if he'd just bothered to read the wikipedia entry on fair use: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_use which is actually quite thorough and covers the ground well. but then, that copyright notice reads like the antisocial raving of person with serious mental impairment. if anything paul zukofsky deserves our pity rather than our scorn. people don't end up wearing a tinfoil hat and ranting about nonsense in the public square if they are healthy and capable of rational thought. On Oct 20, 2009, at 4:02 PM, jforjames at aol.com wrote: > I've already had a little fun with PZ's scare tactics... > http://ursprache.blogspot.com/ > > -----Original Message----- > From: Chris Lott > Sent: Tue, Oct 20, 2009 6:36 pm > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Copyright Notice by PZ > > > > Ridiculous. What it makes me want to do-- and what I WILL do in a few > eeks when I have time-- is to seed any and all Z poetry I can find > ar and wide on anonymous sites, torrent networks, open blogs and > ikis, you name it. If this little prick (sorry, just going by what > is words tell me about him) wants to dare someone to light a match... > c > On Mon, Oct 19, 2009 at 3:26 PM, Halvard Johnson > wrote: > Something of interest: > > http://www.z-site.net/copyright-notice-by-pz/ > > > Hal > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > ______________________________________________ > ew-Poetry mailing list > ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From jfq at myuw.net Tue Oct 20 22:58:50 2009 From: jfq at myuw.net (Jason Quackenbush) Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2009 19:58:50 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Copyright Notice by PZ In-Reply-To: <8CC1FF0873B389C-2D50-79EB@webmail-m020.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CC1FF0873B389C-2D50-79EB@webmail-m020.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: my response: http://www.wetasphalt.com/?q=content/i-lit-cigarette-and-walked-freebeyond-red-light-exit On Oct 20, 2009, at 4:02 PM, jforjames at aol.com wrote: > I've already had a little fun with PZ's scare tactics... > http://ursprache.blogspot.com/ > > -----Original Message----- > From: Chris Lott > Sent: Tue, Oct 20, 2009 6:36 pm > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Copyright Notice by PZ > > > > Ridiculous. What it makes me want to do-- and what I WILL do in a few > eeks when I have time-- is to seed any and all Z poetry I can find > ar and wide on anonymous sites, torrent networks, open blogs and > ikis, you name it. If this little prick (sorry, just going by what > is words tell me about him) wants to dare someone to light a match... > c > On Mon, Oct 19, 2009 at 3:26 PM, Halvard Johnson > wrote: > Something of interest: > > http://www.z-site.net/copyright-notice-by-pz/ > > > Hal > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > ______________________________________________ > ew-Poetry mailing list > ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From junction at earthlink.net Tue Oct 20 23:17:54 2009 From: junction at earthlink.net (Mark Weiss) Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2009 23:17:54 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Copyright Notice by PZ In-Reply-To: <1B6C81141ED9405D9D8E0FF07A6BB000@win.louisiana.edu> References: <1B6C81141ED9405D9D8E0FF07A6BB000@win.louisiana.edu> Message-ID: I don't know his music, but his fiddling was always technically perfect but dead. At 04:35 PM 10/20/2009, you wrote: >Paul was supposedly a "noted violinist and composer." One likes to >think such people will not cultivate, much less prance, paucity of >vision, but . . . well, the older I get, the more I don't know. > >-----Original Message----- >From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu >[mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Halvard Johnson >Sent: Tuesday, October 20, 2009 1:56 PM >To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &,Views >Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Copyright Notice by PZ > >Hmm, seems that when PZ fiddles, the poetry world burns. > >Hal > >"Lists are a form of cultural hysteria." > --Don DeLillo > >Halvard Johnson >================ >halvard at gmail.com >http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home >http://entropyandme.blogspot.com >http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com >http://www.hamiltonstone.org > > > > >On Tue, Oct 20, 2009 at 1:24 PM, Skip Fox ><skip at louisiana.edu> wrote: >It's even sadder then one realizes that the frame of Zukofsky's >lovely Bottom, On Shakespeare (what succulence of prose is this?) >consists of an extended discussion with Paul on the role (majesty) >of sight in Shakespeare, wherein "love hath reason, reason none." > >What reason hath Paul? > >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry Announcing The Whole Island: Six Decades of Cuban Poetry (University of California Press). Forthcoming in November 2009. http://go.ucpress.edu/WholeIsland From chris at chrislott.org Tue Oct 20 23:30:31 2009 From: chris at chrislott.org (Chris Lott) Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2009 19:30:31 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] Copyright Notice by PZ In-Reply-To: References: <8CC1FF0873B389C-2D50-79EB@webmail-m020.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: On Tue, Oct 20, 2009 at 6:34 PM, Jason Quackenbush wrote: > but then, that copyright notice reads like the antisocial raving of person > if anything paul zukofsky deserves our pity > rather than our scorn. Good point. Guess I should demonstrate some humanity... c From esfolk at gmail.com Tue Oct 20 23:48:28 2009 From: esfolk at gmail.com (ES Folk) Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2009 22:48:28 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Copyright Notice by PZ In-Reply-To: <8CC1FF0873B389C-2D50-79EB@webmail-m020.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CC1FF0873B389C-2D50-79EB@webmail-m020.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <5EF3CAA2FA2147C0A908ACAEAB9C7D5B@BarbaraPC> Quite fine. Thank you. Best, Barbara ----- Original Message ----- From: jforjames at aol.com To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Tuesday, October 20, 2009 6:02 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Copyright Notice by PZ I've already had a little fun with PZ's scare tactics... http://ursprache.blogspot.com/ -----Original Message----- From: Chris Lott Sent: Tue, Oct 20, 2009 6:36 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Copyright Notice by PZ Ridiculous. What it makes me want to do-- and what I WILL do in a few weeks when I have time-- is to seed any and all Z poetry I can find far and wide on anonymous sites, torrent networks, open blogs and wikis, you name it. If this little prick (sorry, just going by what his words tell me about him) wants to dare someone to light a match... c On Mon, Oct 19, 2009 at 3:26 PM, Halvard Johnson wrote: > Something of interest: > > http://www.z-site.net/copyright-notice-by-pz/ > > > Hal > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Wed Oct 21 10:52:43 2009 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2009 10:52:43 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] How Nonsense Sharpens the Intellect Message-ID: <8CC2075478E2464-4F3C-45DF@webmail-d040.sysops.aol.com> http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/06/health/06mind.html?_r=1&em How Nonsense Sharpens the Intellect Published: October 5, 2009 In addition to assorted bad breaks and pleasant surprises, opportunities and insults, life serves up the occasional pink unicorn. The three-dollar bill; the nun with a beard; the sentence, to borrow from the Lewis Carroll poem, that gyres and gimbles in the wabe. An experience, in short, that violates all logic and expectation. The philosopher Soren Kierkegaard wrote that such anomalies produced a profound ?sensation of the absurd,? and he wasn?t the only one who took them seriously. Freud, in an essay called ?The Uncanny,? traced the sensation to a fear of death, of castration or of ?something that ought to have remained hidden but has come to light.? At best, the feeling is disorienting. At worst, it?s creepy. Now a study suggests that, paradoxically, this same sensation may prime the brain to sense patterns it would otherwise miss ? in mathematical equations, in language, in the world at large. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Opus40-01 at opus40.org Wed Oct 21 10:56:51 2009 From: Opus40-01 at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2009 10:56:51 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] How Nonsense Sharpens the Intellect In-Reply-To: <8CC2075478E2464-4F3C-45DF@webmail-d040.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CC2075478E2464-4F3C-45DF@webmail-d040.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <4ADF2133.8060108@opus40.org> What nonsense! jforjames at aol.com wrote: > http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/06/health/06mind.html?_r=1&em > > How Nonsense Sharpens the Intellect > Published: October 5, 2009 > > In addition to assorted bad breaks and pleasant surprises, > opportunities and insults, life serves up the occasional pink unicorn. > The three-dollar bill; the nun with a beard; the sentence, to borrow > from the Lewis Carroll poem, that gyres and gimbles in the wabe. > > An experience, in short, that violates all logic and expectation. The > philosopher Soren Kierkegaard wrote that such anomalies produced a > profound ?sensation of the absurd,? and he wasn?t the only one who > took them seriously. Freud, in an essay called ?The Uncanny,? traced > the sensation to a fear of death, of castration or of ?something that > ought to have remained hidden but has come to light.? > > At best, the feeling is disorienting. At worst, it?s creepy. > > Now a study suggests that, paradoxically, this same sensation may > prime the brain to sense patterns it would otherwise miss ? in > mathematical equations, in language, in the world at large. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Tad Richards Read my NY Writing Careers Examiner column today! http://www.examiner.com/x-2862-NY-Writing-Careers-Examiner http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ From jbalizsprince at googlemail.com Wed Oct 21 11:01:16 2009 From: jbalizsprince at googlemail.com (Judy Prince) Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2009 11:01:16 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] How Nonsense Sharpens the Intellect In-Reply-To: <8CC2075478E2464-4F3C-45DF@webmail-d040.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CC2075478E2464-4F3C-45DF@webmail-d040.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <7db1d01b0910210801x7a4e236aoae223000bc8fecff@mail.gmail.com> How smorking! 2009/10/21 > http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/06/health/06mind.html?_r=1&em > How Nonsense Sharpens the Intellect > Published: October 5, 2009 > > In addition to assorted bad breaks and pleasant surprises, opportunities > and insults, life serves up the occasional pink unicorn. The three-dollar > bill; the nun with a beard; the sentence, to borrow from the Lewis Carroll > poem, that gyres and gimbles in the wabe. > > An experience, in short, that violates all logic and expectation. The > philosopher Soren Kierkegaard wrote that such anomalies produced a profound > ?sensation of the absurd,? and he wasn?t the only one who took them > seriously. Freud, in an essay called ?The Uncanny,? traced the sensation to > a fear of death, of castration or of ?something that ought to have remained > hidden but has come to light.? > > At best, the feeling is disorienting. At worst, it?s creepy. > > Now a study suggests that, paradoxically, this same sensation may prime the > brain to sense patterns it would otherwise miss ? in mathematical equations, > in language, in the world at large. > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Wed Oct 21 12:06:37 2009 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2009 12:06:37 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Stevens, New York and Modernism, NYU conference, March 2010 Message-ID: <8CC207F9A08FF9F-4F3C-5D96@webmail-d040.sysops.aol.com> I couldn't find any notice on Gallatin School website, but Al Filreis' blog reports an upcoming conference at NYU... Stevens, New York and Modernism, March 4-6, 2010 http://afilreis.blogspot.com/2009/10/stevens-in-nyc.html Finnegan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd at ripon.edu Wed Oct 21 16:52:13 2009 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2009 15:52:13 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] R.I.P. Jack Wiler Message-ID: I just learned that poet Jack Wiler has died. No details yet. Some of his poems may be read here: http://jackwiler.com/poems.html ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.me.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Wed Oct 21 21:20:24 2009 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2009 21:20:24 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] not poet Everett Ruess Message-ID: <8CC20CCF704389D-6398-F56F@webmail-d003.sysops.aol.com> http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5hGwHiLipSUh-7Ybmz1rmrTJJr7HgD9BFPL6O1 Remains found in Utah not poet Everett Ruess By PAUL FOY (AP) ? 1 hour ago SALT LAKE CITY ? The nephew of Everett Ruess, a legendary wanderer in the 1930s, says remains found in a Utah wilderness are not those of the famous poet. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Wed Oct 21 22:11:43 2009 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2009 22:11:43 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] ex-New York poet Message-ID: <8CC20D42275658F-8934-5D63@webmail-m084.sysops.aol.com> http://www.themorningnews.org/archives/new_york_new_york/goodbye_to_all_them.php New School MFA Graduate X, who had emailed me every day for a month to secure a slot at a reading series I no longer ran, forgets my name when we are introduced at a book party in April. Friend of Friend Gallery Curator throws champagne on my shoes in June; the lack of immediate sympathy is striking. In August, I spot East Village Poet on Mercer Street; I say hello, walk over to him. He stares at me, says We don?t have anything to say to each other, do we? I am not surprised at how rude East Village Poet is; I?ve gotten used to it. I play along, and walk to the wind tunnel of Lower Broadway. Incidents of this type replay over and over in the space of six months. It is as if I have deserted the cause, rejected the dogma of New York Poets, which is to Never Leave New York, Our Ultimate Muse -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Rsgwynn1 at cs.com Wed Oct 21 22:33:19 2009 From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com (Rsgwynn1 at cs.com) Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2009 22:33:19 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] ex-New York poet Message-ID: This is good and funny. God bless the poet who leaves the nest, and god bless the poet who stays. I wish I had enough money to live in NYC for the rest of my life, but I don't. I have enough to live there for about six weeks. Maybe when I learn that I have six weeks to live I'll move. Wouldn't it be fun? says the guy who's been reading Alfred Kazin's journals this week. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jbalizsprince at googlemail.com Wed Oct 21 22:52:03 2009 From: jbalizsprince at googlemail.com (Judy Prince) Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2009 22:52:03 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] ex-New York poet In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7db1d01b0910211952k48361400p4fe2c7506825da1e@mail.gmail.com> Why, Sam, why would you want to live in NYC? P'raps my 30-plus years in Chicago has cured me of big cities in the USA. It was a good and funny---and tragic-feeling article, and the lingering of it is, to me, the tragic part. Is he describing the probable crap-shoot of any profession? Is he an American Toby Young who, stung and fired, turns and rats on his former Vanity Fair boss? Is the NYC poetry world he describes accurately applied to the entire poetry world? [I'm finding it impossible at this moment to use capitalised phrases as the author did throughout] What does it all mean, Sam? And who is Alfred Kazin? Did you misspell his surname? Alfred what me worry Kozinski? Best, Judy at 4 in the morning in Glasgow 2009/10/21 > This is good and funny. God bless the poet who leaves the nest, and god > bless the poet who stays. I wish I had enough money to live in NYC for the > rest of my life, but I don't. I have enough to live there for about six > weeks. Maybe when I learn that I have six weeks to live I'll move. > Wouldn't it be fun? says the guy who's been reading Alfred Kazin's journals > this week. > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jfq at myuw.net Wed Oct 21 23:00:57 2009 From: jfq at myuw.net (Jason Quackenbush) Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2009 20:00:57 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] not poet Everett Ruess In-Reply-To: <8CC20CCF704389D-6398-F56F@webmail-d003.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CC20CCF704389D-6398-F56F@webmail-d003.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: there's an irony in this article. i have no sympathy for the guy. he clearly made the mistake of assuming at some point that the fact that he enjoys poetry somehow makes him special. In fact it makes no one special. Nor does the ability to write competently and graduate from an MFA program. Creative Writing is the biggest waste of a college education I can think of. This article is proof. On Oct 21, 2009, at 6:20 PM, jforjames at aol.com wrote: > > http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5hGwHiLipSUh-7Ybmz1rmrTJJr7HgD9BFPL6O1 > Remains found in Utah not poet Everett Ruess > By PAUL FOY (AP) ? 1 hour ago > > SALT LAKE CITY ? The nephew of Everett Ruess, a legendary wanderer > in the 1930s, says remains found in a Utah wilderness are not those > of the famous poet. > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From jbalizsprince at googlemail.com Wed Oct 21 23:17:00 2009 From: jbalizsprince at googlemail.com (Judy Prince) Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2009 23:17:00 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: FW: deaf student and scansion In-Reply-To: <4ADDA6B1.10803@nut-n-but.net> References: <46F2CD7A5B96441FA3A51C8F25944AC9@RobinLaptopPC> <4AD3B321.6020805@nut-n-but.net> <4AD468E9.3070902@nut-n-but.net> <7db1d01b0910170524v7a90b859h9b36d338a0c3670b@mail.gmail.com> <4ADDA6B1.10803@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <7db1d01b0910212017s55de4ff8o7423a8e222685029@mail.gmail.com> Quite right, Bob. Long live the Great Mysteries! ashamed analyser Judy 2009/10/20 Bob Grumman > Judy Prince wrote: > > Still on this thread, but again responding in general. > > > > Visiting Glasgow this week [my first time!], I'm hearing musical Glaswegian > speech and thinking about speech, poetry, and music---especially about > comparing how music and poetry are "measured" and figuring out what > qualities make speech/ poetry ?musical?. > > > > You're being way too analytical, Judy. You're trying to be rational about > a Great Mystery. All we can meaningfully say about music and poetry is that > they are sacred. > > --Bob > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Rsgwynn1 at cs.com Wed Oct 21 23:22:02 2009 From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com (Rsgwynn1 at cs.com) Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2009 23:22:02 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] ex-New York poet Message-ID: In a message dated 10/21/2009 9:52:38 PM Central Daylight Time, jbalizsprince at googlemail.com writes: > > > Why, Sam, why would you want to live in NYC? P'raps my 30-plus years in > Chicago has cured me of big cities in the USA. It was a good and > funny---and tragic-feeling article, and the lingering of it is, to me, the tragic > part. Is he describing the probable crap-shoot of any profession? Is he an > American Toby Young who, stung and fired, turns and rats on his former > Vanity Fair boss? Is the NYC poetry world he describes accurately applied to > the entire poetry world? [I'm finding it impossible at this moment to use > capitalised phrases as the author did throughout] > > What does it all mean, Sam? And who is Alfred Kazin? Did you misspell > his surname? Alfred what me worry Kozinski? > > > I'm old, beyond all of that career crap, and I said "if I had enough money." I'd eat well (most nights, out), go to the theater, and hang out. If I were invited (though I probably wouldn't be) I'd talk about and read my poems up there, unashamedly. What can I say? To an outlander like me the place is magic and I love my annual long weekends up there. Have never met with an unkind word, like to ride the subway, engage with cab drivers, get into random conversations with folks, etc. I don't know where, after 40+ years worth of visits, the supposed rudeness comes from. I've never experienced it--once. Who wouldn't enjoy this? Of course, I feel like a portable ATM machine while I'm there, but money spent in NY isn't real money. Where else could I hear Bryan Stokes Mitchell sing at his kids' school for a ticket that cost next to nothing? Where else could I get bumped into on the street (albeit 40 years ago) by Bernadette Peters? I'm basically an Upper West Side tourist, I know, but I love my trips there. Of course, I do go as a tourist and don't have to put up with the petty day-to-day. I have been in Chicago for several visits. Don't get me wrong: it's OK. But I didn't feel like the opportunities were there. I mean, I took my son to NY once, when he was about 15. Ten years later, he and his girlfriend eloped up there. How cool was that? Alfred Kazin? Surely you jest. Along with Joseph Mitchell, one of the city's greatest observers. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From AlMaginnes at aol.com Wed Oct 21 23:24:38 2009 From: AlMaginnes at aol.com (AlMaginnes at aol.com) Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2009 23:24:38 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] ex-New York poet Message-ID: Xrist, could this guy be a little more precious? Or could he at least discern between poetry and the crap that goes along with poetry? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jfq at myuw.net Wed Oct 21 23:37:32 2009 From: jfq at myuw.net (Jason Quackenbush) Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2009 20:37:32 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] ex-New York poet In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: word. On Oct 21, 2009, at 8:24 PM, AlMaginnes at aol.com wrote: > Xrist, could this guy be a little more precious? Or could he at least > discern between poetry and the crap that goes along with poetry? > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From jbalizsprince at googlemail.com Wed Oct 21 23:44:14 2009 From: jbalizsprince at googlemail.com (Judy Prince) Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2009 23:44:14 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] ex-New York poet In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7db1d01b0910212044k231372e7tc4090c56fd7e273f@mail.gmail.com> Your operative words were: "Of course, I do go as a tourist and don't have to put up with the petty day-to-day." Like you, I entirely love visiting NYC, esp having found a boutique hotel in MadHattan. Howsomever, Chicago's the more gorgeous of the two cities; its theatre more alive and muscley and growing talent. As to where one can bump into Bernadette Peters [or as someone says: "Happiness is bumping into Brigitte Bardot......slowly."]-----where my very own son, wife, and kiddies live: Los Angeles----the city of no winter! And no water.....and no more money. Do I actually need to google Alfred Kazin? Quite frankly I believe you've made him up out of the burnt-out brain shell of a former chess player from Jersey. And who's Joseph Mitchell? Best, Judy 2009/10/21 > In a message dated 10/21/2009 9:52:38 PM Central Daylight Time, > jbalizsprince at googlemail.com writes: > > > > Why, Sam, why would you want to live in NYC? P'raps my 30-plus years in > Chicago has cured me of big cities in the USA. It was a good and > funny---and tragic-feeling article, and the lingering of it is, to me, the > tragic part. Is he describing the probable crap-shoot of any profession? > Is he an American Toby Young who, stung and fired, turns and rats on his > former Vanity Fair boss? Is the NYC poetry world he describes accurately > applied to the entire poetry world? [I'm finding it impossible at this > moment to use capitalised phrases as the author did throughout] > > What does it all mean, Sam? And who is Alfred Kazin? Did you misspell his > surname? Alfred what me worry Kozinski? > > > > I'm old, beyond all of that career crap, and I said *"if I had enough > money."* I'd eat well (most nights, out), go to the theater, and hang > out. If I were invited (though I probably wouldn't be) I'd talk about and > read my poems up there, unashamedly. What can I say? To an outlander like > me the place is magic and I love my annual long weekends up there. Have > never met with an unkind word, like to ride the subway, engage with cab > drivers, get into random conversations with folks, etc. I don't know where, > after 40+ years worth of visits, the supposed rudeness comes from. I've > never experienced it--once. Who wouldn't enjoy this? Of course, I feel like > a portable ATM machine while I'm there, but money spent in NY isn't *real > *money. Where else could I hear Bryan Stokes Mitchell sing at his kids' > school for a ticket that cost next to nothing? Where else could I get > bumped into on the street (albeit 40 years ago) by Bernadette Peters? I'm > basically an Upper West Side tourist, I know, but I love my trips there. Of > course, I do go as a tourist and don't have to put up with the petty > day-to-day. > > I have been in Chicago for several visits. Don't get me wrong: it's OK. > But I didn't feel like the *opportunities* were there. > > I mean, I took my son to NY once, when he was about 15. Ten years later, he > and his girlfriend *eloped* up there. How cool was that? > > Alfred Kazin? Surely you jest. Along with Joseph Mitchell, one of the > city's greatest observers. > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rwilsnac at medicine.nodak.edu Thu Oct 22 00:30:53 2009 From: rwilsnac at medicine.nodak.edu (Richard Wilsnack) Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2009 23:30:53 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] ex-New York poet In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4ADFDFFD.5070203@medicine.nodak.edu> Rsgwynn1 at cs.com wrote: > This is good and funny. God bless the poet who leaves the nest, and > god bless the poet who stays. I wish I had enough money to live in > NYC for the rest of my life, but I don't. I have enough to live there > for about six weeks. Maybe when I learn that I have six weeks to live > I'll move. Wouldn't it be fun? says the guy who's been reading Alfred > Kazin's journals this week. Sam, My sole encounter with Kazin was just a few years after he successfully championed the release of Lady Chatterley's Lover from bondage. He came across as extraordinarily arrogant. Was that just the New York City style manifesting itself? Or was that just "I am old and wise and you are young and foolish"? Richard W. Wilsnack rwilsnac at medicine.nodak.edu -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Rsgwynn1 at cs.com Thu Oct 22 00:35:23 2009 From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com (Rsgwynn1 at cs.com) Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2009 00:35:23 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] ex-New York poet Message-ID: In a message dated 10/21/2009 11:31:11 PM Central Daylight Time, rwilsnac at medicine.nodak.edu writes: > Sam, > > My sole encounter with Kazin was just a few years after he successfully > championed the release of Lady Chatterley's Lover from bondage. He came > across as extraordinarily arrogant. Was that just the New York City style > manifesting itself? Or was that just "I am old and wise and you are young and > foolish"? Oh, I have no doubt about this. But he was fun to read. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Rsgwynn1 at cs.com Thu Oct 22 00:39:53 2009 From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com (Rsgwynn1 at cs.com) Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2009 00:39:53 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] ex-New York poet Message-ID: In a message dated 10/21/2009 10:44:45 PM Central Daylight Time, jbalizsprince at googlemail.com writes: > Do I actually need to google Alfred Kazin? Quite frankly I believe > you've made him up out of the burnt-out brain shell of a former chess player > from Jersey. > > > And who's Joseph Mitchell? > > > Best, > > > Judy > Judy, Joe Mitchell was one of the finest writers of non-fiction prose who ever lived. Check out Up in the Old Hotel if you want to read, or rent Joe Gould's Secret if you want to watch. He's a hero of mine (and a transplanted North Carolinian as well). He was a great reporter, and one who was much more than a great reporter. As for Kazin, I guess he's gone the same way as Arvin, Brooks (both of them), and Wilson, all of whom loved to talk about what they'd read. Alas. Sam -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From junction at earthlink.net Thu Oct 22 01:14:23 2009 From: junction at earthlink.net (Mark Weiss) Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2009 01:14:23 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] ex-New York poet In-Reply-To: <7db1d01b0910212044k231372e7tc4090c56fd7e273f@mail.gmail.co m> References: <7db1d01b0910212044k231372e7tc4090c56fd7e273f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Alfred Kazin was a wonderful writer. You do want to look him up. I'm fond of Chicago, but it's a different kind of place. I'm a native New Yorker with the usual love-hate relationship--it's a labor-intensive place to live. I fled for seventeen years, but I'm back for at least the next several. The rest of US cities, most of which I know pretty well, are occasionally pleasant but horrendously provincial. The poetry scene is pretty much the same throughout except for the lower density level elsewhere, tho apparently this guy hung out with the wrong poets. I don't know which of the under fifties will emerge as having been worth reading, tho I have my suspicions. But here's what I learned in NY in my twenties and thirties: Jerry Rothenberg, Armand Schwerner, Jacckson MacLow, Allen Ginsberg, John Ashberry, Muriel Rukyser, George Economou, Rochelle Owens, Charles Reznikoff, a dozen more of that quality, all the souls of generosity to a younger poet, not to mention those who came in from nearby--Gerritt Lansing, Robert Kelly, John Wieners, Bill Bronk, Bob Creeley, lots more. Plus from ages 12 to 15 being dropped by my parents on the steps of the Met at 9 on Saturdays and picked up at 5. Today I got my eyes checked a block above Washington Square Park and walked south to Soho and east through the Lower East Side to Delancy and Essex to get my glasses made, then up to Saint Marks Church, where I heard two out of town poets, Cathy Wagner was one, delightful and smart as usual, then took the subway to my neighborhood at the northern end of the island, stopped in the local bar where I had a talk with an actor who's opening in Our Town on Friday and another guy with whom I chatted about the great Robert Frank show we had each seen recently at the Met and reminded each other to get to the Kandinsky (Guggenheim), Blake (Morgan Library), Man Ray (Jewish) and I forget who at the American Folk Art, and compared notes on the Duchamp at the Philadelphis Museum, while keeping an eye on the Phillies eviscerating the Dodgers on the tv behind the bar. It doesn't hurt that it was a spectacularly beautiful Indian Summer day in one of the world's best walking cities. Your comparison with Chicago, which I do like, is simply silly. With all its faults, most shared with the other large US cities, it's essentially unknowable unless you spend a lot of time here. Did I mention that the forest behind my apartment is on a 300 foot hill that runs for two miles along the Hudson and looks across it to the Palisades? That I often walk a mile through that forest and wind up at the Cloisters? At 11:44 PM 10/21/2009, you wrote: >Your operative words were: ? "Of course, I do go >as a tourist and don't have to put up with the >petty day-to-day." ? Like you, I entirely love >visiting NYC, esp having found a boutique hotel >in MadHattan. ? Howsomever, Chicago's the more >gorgeous of the two cities; its theatre more >alive and muscley and growing talent. ? As to >where one can bump into Bernadette Peters [or as >someone says: ? "Happiness is bumping into >Brigitte Bardot......slowly."]-----where my very >own son, wife, and kiddies live: ? Los >Angeles----the city of no winter! ? And no water.....and no more money. > >Do I actually need to google Alfred Kazin? ? >Quite frankly I believe you've made him up out >of the burnt-out brain shell of a former chess player from Jersey. ? > >And who's Joseph Mitchell? ? > >Best, > >Judy > >2009/10/21 <Rsgwynn1 at cs.com> >In a message dated 10/21/2009 9:52:38 PM Central >Daylight Time, >jbalizsprince at googlemail.com writes: >> >> >>Why, Sam, why would you want to live in >>NYC?? P'raps my 30-plus years in Chicago has >>cured me of big cities in the USA.? It was a >>good and funny---and tragic-feeling article, >>and the lingering of it is, to me, the tragic >>part.? Is he describing the probable >>crap-shoot of any profession?? Is he an >>American Toby Young who, stung and fired, turns >>and rats on his former Vanity Fair boss?? Is >>the NYC poetry world he describes accurately >>applied to the entire poetry world?? [I'm >>finding it impossible at this moment to use >>capitalised phrases as the author did throughout]? ? >> >>What does it all mean, Sam?? And who is Alfred >>Kazin?? Did you misspell his surname?? Alfred what me worry Kozinski? >> > >I'm old, beyond all of that career crap, and I >said "if I had enough money."? I'd eat well >(most nights, out), go to the theater, and hang >out.? If I were invited (though I probably >wouldn't be) I'd talk about and read my poems up >there, unashamedly.? What can I say?? To an >outlander like me? the place is magic and I >love my annual long weekends up there.? Have >never met with an unkind word, like to ride the >subway, engage with cab drivers, get into random >conversations with folks, etc.? I don't know >where, after 40+ years worth of visits, the >supposed rudeness comes from.? I've never >experienced it--once. Who wouldn't enjoy >this?? Of course, I feel like a portable ATM >machine while I'm there, but money spent in NY >isn't real money.? Where else could I hear >Bryan Stokes Mitchell sing at his kids' school >for a ticket that cost next to nothing?? Where >else could I get bumped into on the street >(albeit 40 years ago) by Bernadette >Peters?? I'm basically an Upper West Side >tourist, I know, but I love my trips there.? Of >course, I do go as a tourist and don't have to >put up with the petty day-to-day. > >I have been in Chicago for several >visits.? Don't get me wrong: it's OK.? But I >didn't feel like the opportunities were there. > >I mean, I took my son to NY once, when he was >about 15. Ten years later, he and his girlfriend >eloped up there.? How cool was that? > >Alfred Kazin?? Surely you jest.? Along with >Joseph Mitchell, one of the city's greatest observers. >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry Announcing The Whole Island: Six Decades of Cuban Poetry (University of California Press). Forthcoming in November 2009. http://go.ucpress.edu/WholeIsland From junction at earthlink.net Thu Oct 22 01:17:14 2009 From: junction at earthlink.net (Mark Weiss) Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2009 01:17:14 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] ex-New York poet In-Reply-To: <4ADFDFFD.5070203@medicine.nodak.edu> References: <4ADFDFFD.5070203@medicine.nodak.edu> Message-ID: That won't happen again, as he's dead. Less chance of being snubbed while reading his books. At 12:30 AM 10/22/2009, you wrote: >Rsgwynn1 at cs.com wrote: >>This is good and funny. God bless the poet who leaves the nest, >>and god bless the poet who stays. I wish I had enough money to >>live in NYC for the rest of my life, but I don't. I have enough to >>live there for about six weeks. Maybe when I learn that I have six >>weeks to live I'll move. Wouldn't it be fun? says the guy who's >>been reading Alfred Kazin's journals this week. >Sam, > >My sole encounter with Kazin was just a few years after he >successfully championed the release of Lady Chatterley's Lover from >bondage. He came across as extraordinarily arrogant. Was that just >the New York City style manifesting itself? Or was that just "I am >old and wise and you are young and foolish"? > >Richard W. Wilsnack >rwilsnac at medicine.nodak.edu >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry Announcing The Whole Island: Six Decades of Cuban Poetry (University of California Press). Forthcoming in November 2009. http://go.ucpress.edu/WholeIsland From oedipa at gmail.com Thu Oct 22 05:44:50 2009 From: oedipa at gmail.com (karen) Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2009 04:44:50 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] ex-New York poet In-Reply-To: <8CC20D42275658F-8934-5D63@webmail-m084.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CC20D42275658F-8934-5D63@webmail-m084.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: Wow. This was a great read.... resonated with me on many levels. Thanks! k (the lurker) On Wed, Oct 21, 2009 at 9:11 PM, wrote: > http://www.themorningnews.org/archives/new_york_new_york/goodbye_to_all_them.php > > New School MFA Graduate X, who had emailed me every day for a month to > secure a slot at a reading series I no longer ran, forgets my name when we > are introduced at a book party in April. Friend of Friend Gallery Curator > throws champagne on my shoes in June; the lack of immediate sympathy is > striking. In August, I spot East Village Poet on Mercer Street; I say hello, > walk over to him. He stares at me, says We don?t have anything to say to > each other, do we? I am not surprised at how rude East Village Poet is; I?ve > gotten used to it. I play along, and walk to the wind tunnel of Lower > Broadway. > > Incidents of this type replay over and over in the space of six months. It > is as if I have deserted the cause, rejected the dogma of New York Poets, > which is to Never Leave New York, Our Ultimate Muse > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- k From oedipa at gmail.com Thu Oct 22 05:49:22 2009 From: oedipa at gmail.com (karen) Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2009 04:49:22 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] ex-New York poet In-Reply-To: References: <8CC20D42275658F-8934-5D63@webmail-m084.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: Oh and btw, I too lived in NYC. Loved it. LOVED IT. God how I miss it. But yeah, if you start to run in certain competitive circles, it can wear you down. NYC is a city of choices. Many, many choices. When I lived there, I danced around the perimeters of the poetry "scene" (went to the KGB readings, met people, did open mics, etc, etc). But you know, NYC itself was the best poem ever written. And every day that I walked to work from Harlem down to mid town, I was indescribably happy. Alas! It's expensive. So now I live in Seattle. Which is also great in a different way. On Thu, Oct 22, 2009 at 4:44 AM, karen wrote: > Wow. ?This was a great read.... resonated with me on many levels. ?Thanks! > > k > (the lurker) > > On Wed, Oct 21, 2009 at 9:11 PM, ? wrote: >> http://www.themorningnews.org/archives/new_york_new_york/goodbye_to_all_them.php >> >> New School MFA Graduate X, who had emailed me every day for a month to >> secure a slot at a reading series I no longer ran, forgets my name when we >> are introduced at a book party in April. Friend of Friend Gallery Curator >> throws champagne on my shoes in June; the lack of immediate sympathy is >> striking. In August, I spot East Village Poet on Mercer Street; I say hello, >> walk over to him. He stares at me, says We don?t have anything to say to >> each other, do we? I am not surprised at how rude East Village Poet is; I?ve >> gotten used to it. I play along, and walk to the wind tunnel of Lower >> Broadway. >> >> Incidents of this type replay over and over in the space of six months. It >> is as if I have deserted the cause, rejected the dogma of New York Poets, >> which is to Never Leave New York, Our Ultimate Muse >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > > > > -- > k > -- k From amyhappens at yahoo.com Thu Oct 22 08:32:49 2009 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king) Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2009 05:32:49 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] SEAGUE this SATURDAY! Wagner and King invade Bob Holman's apartment! Message-ID: <432698.15030.qm@web83303.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> SEGUE READING SERIES @ BOWERY POETRY CLUB Oct 24: Catherine Wagner & Amy King -- this is the event that will be held at 310 Bowery (Bob Holman?s apartment) instead: Catherine Wagner?s new book,?My New Job, is forthcoming. She is also the author of?Macular Hole?and?Miss America.?Recent chapbooks include?Articulate How,?Hole in the Ground, and?Bornt. She is a faculty member in the MA program in creative writing at Miami University in Ohio.? Amy King?is the author of?I?m the Man Who Loves You,?Antidotes for an Alibi, and?The People Instruments. Forthcoming, Slaves to Do These Things and I Want to Make You Safe. ?Please visit http://amyking.org for more. All readings* take place at:? Bowery Poetry Club 308 Bowery New York, New York 10012 Ph: 212-614-0505 Price: 6 dollars Event days/times: Saturdays, 4-6 pm? ? *Except for the reading on Saturday, Oct 24, which will take place at 310 Bowery instead.? ? _______ NEW BOOK Slaves to Do These Things -- http://www.blazevox.org/bk-ak3.htm? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Thu Oct 22 08:49:02 2009 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2009 14:49:02 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] SEAGUE this SATURDAY! Wagner and King invade Bob Holman's apartment! In-Reply-To: <432698.15030.qm@web83303.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: <432698.15030.qm@web83303.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4b65c2d70910220549g5e59aa27o156f7f2907292ffb@mail.gmail.com> Congratulations ! As usual, Anny On Thu, Oct 22, 2009 at 2:32 PM, amy king wrote: > *SEGUE READING SERIES @ BOWERY POETRY CLUB* > > *Oct 24: Catherine Wagner & Amy King -- this is the event that will be > held at 310 Bowery (Bob Holman?s apartment) instead:* > > *Catherine Wagner*?s new book, *My New Job*, is forthcoming. She is also > the author of *Macular Hole* and *Miss America. *Recent chapbooks include > *Articulate How*, *Hole in the Ground*, and *Bornt*. She is a faculty > member in the MA program in creative writing at Miami University in Ohio. > > *Amy King* is the author of *I?m the Man Who Loves You*, *Antidotes for an > Alibi*, and *The People Instruments*. Forthcoming, *Slaves to Do These > Things* and *I Want to Make You Safe*. Please visit http://amyking.orgfor more. > > *All readings* take place at: * > > *Bowery Poetry Club* > > *308 Bowery* > > *New York, New York 10012* > > *Ph: 212-614-0505* > > *Price: 6 dollars* > > *Event days/times: Saturdays, 4-6 pm * > > > > **Except for the reading on Saturday, Oct 24, which will take place at 310 > Bowery instead. * > > > > _______* > > NEW BOOK > > Slaves to Do These Things -- http://www.blazevox.org/bk-ak3.htm * > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From amyhappens at yahoo.com Thu Oct 22 09:09:54 2009 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king) Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2009 06:09:54 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] SEAGUE this SATURDAY! Wagner and King invade Bob Holman's apartment! In-Reply-To: <4b65c2d70910220549g5e59aa27o156f7f2907292ffb@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <859600.37695.qm@web83301.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Thank you, Anny! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jbalizsprince at googlemail.com Thu Oct 22 10:03:25 2009 From: jbalizsprince at googlemail.com (Judy Prince) Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2009 10:03:25 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] ex-New York poet In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7db1d01b0910220703n4f949965rfeb23940dbde1c48@mail.gmail.com> Thanks, Sam. I ordered Joseph Mitchell's Up in the Old Hotel; look forward to it! Did you know that your excellent cento's become internationally highly acclaimed, Sam? Check out the online Guardian, Stephen Moss's 8 October comment, the last comment in the queue about his own cento presented to recommend him as the Oxford Professor of Poetry whenever OU decides to rerun the election. His comment: ". . . Many thanks to that link to the R.S. Gwynn cento . . . it is wonderful -- and infinitely better and cleverer than mine, dammit." The url for his comment; previous page for his own cento, First Lines: http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2009/oct/07/national-poetry-day-moss-poem?commentpage=2 Best, Judy 2009/10/22 > In a message dated 10/21/2009 10:44:45 PM Central Daylight Time, > jbalizsprince at googlemail.com writes: > > Do I actually need to google Alfred Kazin? Quite frankly I believe you've > made him up out of the burnt-out brain shell of a former chess player from > Jersey. > > > And who's Joseph Mitchell? > > > Best, > > > Judy > > > Judy, Joe Mitchell was one of the finest writers of non-fiction prose who > ever lived. Check out Up in the Old Hotel if you want to read, or rent Joe > Gould's Secret if you want to watch. He's a hero of mine (and a > transplanted North Carolinian as well). He was a great reporter, and one > who was much more than a great reporter. > > As for Kazin, I guess he's gone the same way as Arvin, Brooks (both of > them), and Wilson, all of whom loved to talk about what they'd read. Alas. > > Sam > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cervantes.james at gmail.com Thu Oct 22 10:19:11 2009 From: cervantes.james at gmail.com (James Cervantes) Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2009 07:19:11 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] ex-New York poet In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <648208b60910220719nb4bf808s22602aca1629c302@mail.gmail.com> Sam, I share your experience and have the same feelings about NYC, though my early experiences were as a musician-tourist/tourist-musician, rather than a poet-tourist/tourist-poet. Very similar, however. Folks like Hal will have a different take as they were there as residents and have had their fill of it - maybe! Recently, while I was rummaging through old photos and letters I came across some from folks I'd met in NYC in casual and fleeting circumstances and they brought back memories of late night wanderings listening to John Coltrane, Miles David, Thelonius Monk and others. My later literary experiences in NYC were not as sparkling, Hal and Lynda excluded, of course. - Jim On Wed, Oct 21, 2009 at 8:22 PM, wrote: > In a message dated 10/21/2009 9:52:38 PM Central Daylight Time, > jbalizsprince at googlemail.com writes: > > > > Why, Sam, why would you want to live in NYC? P'raps my 30-plus years in > Chicago has cured me of big cities in the USA. It was a good and > funny---and tragic-feeling article, and the lingering of it is, to me, the > tragic part. Is he describing the probable crap-shoot of any profession? > Is he an American Toby Young who, stung and fired, turns and rats on his > former Vanity Fair boss? Is the NYC poetry world he describes accurately > applied to the entire poetry world? [I'm finding it impossible at this > moment to use capitalised phrases as the author did throughout] > > What does it all mean, Sam? And who is Alfred Kazin? Did you misspell his > surname? Alfred what me worry Kozinski? > > > > I'm old, beyond all of that career crap, and I said *"if I had enough > money."* I'd eat well (most nights, out), go to the theater, and hang > out. If I were invited (though I probably wouldn't be) I'd talk about and > read my poems up there, unashamedly. What can I say? To an outlander like > me the place is magic and I love my annual long weekends up there. Have > never met with an unkind word, like to ride the subway, engage with cab > drivers, get into random conversations with folks, etc. I don't know where, > after 40+ years worth of visits, the supposed rudeness comes from. I've > never experienced it--once. Who wouldn't enjoy this? Of course, I feel like > a portable ATM machine while I'm there, but money spent in NY isn't *real > *money. Where else could I hear Bryan Stokes Mitchell sing at his kids' > school for a ticket that cost next to nothing? Where else could I get > bumped into on the street (albeit 40 years ago) by Bernadette Peters? I'm > basically an Upper West Side tourist, I know, but I love my trips there. Of > course, I do go as a tourist and don't have to put up with the petty > day-to-day. > > I have been in Chicago for several visits. Don't get me wrong: it's OK. > But I didn't feel like the *opportunities* were there. > > I mean, I took my son to NY once, when he was about 15. Ten years later, he > and his girlfriend *eloped* up there. How cool was that? > > Alfred Kazin? Surely you jest. Along with Joseph Mitchell, one of the > city's greatest observers. > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From uche at ogbuji.net Thu Oct 22 10:24:27 2009 From: uche at ogbuji.net (Uche Ogbuji) Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2009 08:24:27 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] ex-New York poet In-Reply-To: <7db1d01b0910220703n4f949965rfeb23940dbde1c48@mail.gmail.com> References: <7db1d01b0910220703n4f949965rfeb23940dbde1c48@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Thu, Oct 22, 2009 at 8:03 AM, Judy Prince wrote: > Thanks, Sam. I ordered Joseph Mitchell's Up in the Old Hotel; look > forward to it! > Did you know that your excellent cento's become internationally highly > acclaimed, Sam? Check out the online Guardian, Stephen Moss's 8 October > comment, the last comment in the queue about his own cento presented to > recommend him as the Oxford Professor of Poetry whenever OU decides to rerun > the election. His comment: ". . . Many thanks to that link to the R.S. > Gwynn cento . . . it is wonderful -- and infinitely better and cleverer than > mine, dammit." The url for his comment; previous page for his own cento, First > Lines: > http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2009/oct/07/national-poetry-day-moss-poem?commentpage=2 > > > No other word for it. Sam's cento is astounding. I think it might have done for the form, given the difficulty imagining approach of another to that quality. -- Uche Ogbuji http://uche.ogbuji.net Founding Partner, Zepheira http://zepheira.com Linked-in profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/ucheogbuji Articles: http://uche.ogbuji.net/tech/publications/ Friendfeed: http://friendfeed.com/uche Twitter: http://twitter.com/uogbuji -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From skip at louisiana.edu Thu Oct 22 10:59:25 2009 From: skip at louisiana.edu (Skip Fox) Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2009 09:59:25 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] ex-New York poet & PK's brick sh*tting In-Reply-To: <648208b60910220719nb4bf808s22602aca1629c302@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1FBF8AE6F73C4049B64545319CCA323A@win.louisiana.edu> I always assumed that working on poetry was somehow significantly involved with working on oneself, asking real questions, wondering, discovering, arriving temporarily, losing, etc. Although it is easy to point out narrow fellow creatures who wrote good poetry, and kindly ones who never lit a line, this is one of the assumptions that is central to writing for, at least, myself It wouldn't make sense otherwise. I'd not insist upon a generalization based on this, it would fit in with someone's observation that Paul Zukofsky's playing was technically brilliant, but emotionally anemic. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From junction at earthlink.net Thu Oct 22 11:06:34 2009 From: junction at earthlink.net (Mark Weiss) Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2009 11:06:34 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] ex-New York poet & PK's brick sh*tting In-Reply-To: <1FBF8AE6F73C4049B64545319CCA323A@win.louisiana.edu> References: <648208b60910220719nb4bf808s22602aca1629c302@mail.gmail.com> <1FBF8AE6F73C4049B64545319CCA323A@win.louisiana.edu> Message-ID: That was me. He did a recording of the Ives sonatas that made him sound like a computer playing Webern. I love Webern, by the way, but not so much the computer as fiddler. Mark At 10:59 AM 10/22/2009, you wrote: > >I always assumed that working on poetry was somehow significantly >involved with working on oneself, asking real questions, wondering, >discovering, arriving temporarily, losing, etc. Although it is easy >to point out narrow fellow creatures who wrote good poetry, and >kindly ones who never lit a line, this is one of the assumptions >that is central to writing for, at least, myself It wouldn't make >sense otherwise. I'd not insist upon a generalization based on this, >it would fit in with someone's observation that Paul Zukofsky's >playing was technically brilliant, but emotionally anemic. >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry Announcing The Whole Island: Six Decades of Cuban Poetry (University of California Press). Forthcoming in November 2009. http://go.ucpress.edu/WholeIsland From seamascain at gmail.com Thu Oct 22 11:20:56 2009 From: seamascain at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?S=E9amas_Cain?=) Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2009 10:20:56 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] ... at the cliffs of Moher Message-ID: <6f1e9ee40910220820l7dfcf955r92fc036cf65ecb11@mail.gmail.com> _______________ SALMON POETRY (of Knockeven at the Cliffs of Moher in County Clare, Ireland) invites you to celebrate the publication of the book POETRY : Reading it, Writing it, Publishing it http://www.salmonpoetry.com/poetry.html The event will take place on Tuesday, the 27th of October at 7:00 p.m. in Chapters Bookstore, Parnell Street, Dublin 1, Ireland. Readers for the evening, introduced by Jessie Lendennie, will be Celia de Fr?ine, Seamus Cashman, Nessa O?Mahony, Maurice Harmon, Joan McBreen, & Anne Fitzgerald. This unusual volume consists of a number of essays by a range of poets; some run small presses or micro presses, some host writing workshops or organize reading series, some hold academic posts. Jessie Lendennie, the editor, wrote: "All are totally engrossed in the world of contemporary poetry. I wanted an international perspective so the contributors come from Ireland, Canada, Africa, Australia, Britain, & the U.S." To purchase the book, go to ... http://www.salmonpoetry.com/poetry.html For additional information, go to ... http://www.salmonpoetry.com/ Questions may be sent to ... bookshop at salmonpoetry.com In simplicity, S?amas Cain http://seamascain.writernetwork.com _______________ From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Thu Oct 22 11:16:54 2009 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2009 17:16:54 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] ex-New York poet In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4b65c2d70910220816j11ed91bdp926e7ddc8d335853@mail.gmail.com> Yes, and yes, and to all what Mark writes. I recently inquired with a fellow poet who is selling how much her cheapest apartment costs, unluckily way too much for my slim pockets. On Thu, Oct 22, 2009 at 5:22 AM, wrote: > In a message dated 10/21/2009 9:52:38 PM Central Daylight Time, > jbalizsprince at googlemail.com writes: > > > > Why, Sam, why would you want to live in NYC? P'raps my 30-plus years in > Chicago has cured me of big cities in the USA. It was a good and > funny---and tragic-feeling article, and the lingering of it is, to me, the > tragic part. Is he describing the probable crap-shoot of any profession? > Is he an American Toby Young who, stung and fired, turns and rats on his > former Vanity Fair boss? Is the NYC poetry world he describes accurately > applied to the entire poetry world? [I'm finding it impossible at this > moment to use capitalised phrases as the author did throughout] > > What does it all mean, Sam? And who is Alfred Kazin? Did you misspell his > surname? Alfred what me worry Kozinski? > > > > I'm old, beyond all of that career crap, and I said *"if I had enough > money."* I'd eat well (most nights, out), go to the theater, and hang > out. If I were invited (though I probably wouldn't be) I'd talk about and > read my poems up there, unashamedly. What can I say? To an outlander like > me the place is magic and I love my annual long weekends up there. Have > never met with an unkind word, like to ride the subway, engage with cab > drivers, get into random conversations with folks, etc. I don't know where, > after 40+ years worth of visits, the supposed rudeness comes from. I've > never experienced it--once. Who wouldn't enjoy this? Of course, I feel like > a portable ATM machine while I'm there, but money spent in NY isn't *real > *money. Where else could I hear Bryan Stokes Mitchell sing at his kids' > school for a ticket that cost next to nothing? Where else could I get > bumped into on the street (albeit 40 years ago) by Bernadette Peters? I'm > basically an Upper West Side tourist, I know, but I love my trips there. Of > course, I do go as a tourist and don't have to put up with the petty > day-to-day. > > I have been in Chicago for several visits. Don't get me wrong: it's OK. > But I didn't feel like the *opportunities* were there. > > I mean, I took my son to NY once, when he was about 15. Ten years later, he > and his girlfriend *eloped* up there. How cool was that? > > Alfred Kazin? Surely you jest. Along with Joseph Mitchell, one of the > city's greatest observers. > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Thu Oct 22 12:57:49 2009 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2009 11:57:49 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Website You Can Send Poems To In-Reply-To: <7db1d01b0910212017s55de4ff8o7423a8e222685029@mail.gmail.com> References: <46F2CD7A5B96441FA3A51C8F25944A C9@RobinLaptopPC><4AD3B321.6020805@nut-n-but.net> <4AD468E9.3070902@nut-n-but.net><7db1d01b0910170524v7a90b859h9b36d338a0c3670b@mail.gmail.com><4ADDA6B1.10803@nut-n-but.net> <7db1d01b0910212017s55de4ff8o7423a8e222685029@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4AE08F0D.208@nut-n-but.net> I just had a visual poem posted at I'm making this announcement more to alert others of a site possibly worth sending poems to than to promote myself. Go to its home page and decide for yourself if it is. I know very little about it. A friend is curating the gallery (for visual and related poems) where my poem is, which is how I got into it, but my impression is that anyone can get a poem posted somewhere at the site, and that it may even be seen by people, particularly schoolteachers. The best case scenario would be that your work is seen by an English teacher, who then teaches it. Any comments, negative or positive, on my poem are welcome, as always. --Bob G. (who spent the Sunday before last Sunday in a penthouse apartment overlooking Central Park and rather liked it) From halvard at gmail.com Thu Oct 22 12:30:56 2009 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2009 11:30:56 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Website You Can Send Poems To In-Reply-To: <4AE08F0D.208@nut-n-but.net> References: <4AD3B321.6020805@nut-n-but.net> <4AD468E9.3070902@nut-n-but.net> <7db1d01b0910170524v7a90b859h9b36d338a0c3670b@mail.gmail.com> <4ADDA6B1.10803@nut-n-but.net> <7db1d01b0910212017s55de4ff8o7423a8e222685029@mail.gmail.com> <4AE08F0D.208@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: Better to promote yourself than to stay in 1st grade forever. Hal ?When a man rides a long time in wild regions he feels the desire for a city.? --Italo Calvino Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org On Thu, Oct 22, 2009 at 11:57 AM, Bob Grumman wrote: > I just had a visual poem posted at > > > > I'm making this announcement more to alert others of a site possibly worth > sending poems to than to promote myself. Go to its home page and decide for > yourself if it is. I know very little about it. A friend is curating the > gallery (for visual and related poems) where my poem is, which is how I got > into it, but my impression is that anyone can get a poem posted somewhere at > the site, and that it may even be seen by people, particularly > schoolteachers. The best case scenario would be that your work is seen by > an English teacher, who then teaches it. > > Any comments, negative or positive, on my poem are welcome, as always. > > --Bob G. (who spent the Sunday before last Sunday in a penthouse apartment > overlooking Central Park and rather liked it) > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From junction at earthlink.net Thu Oct 22 12:32:54 2009 From: junction at earthlink.net (Mark Weiss) Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2009 12:32:54 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Website You Can Send Poems To In-Reply-To: References: <4AD3B321.6020805@nut-n-but.net> <4AD468E9.3070902@nut-n-but.net> <7db1d01b0910170524v7a90b859h9b36d338a0c3670b@mail.gmail.com> <4ADDA6B1.10803@nut-n-but.net> <7db1d01b0910212017s55de4ff8o7423a8e222685029@mail.gmail.com> <4AE08F0D.208@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: Me, I'm struggling with retrograde. At 12:30 PM 10/22/2009, you wrote: >Better to promote yourself than to stay in 1st grade forever. > >Hal > >"When a man rides a long time in wild >regions he feels the desire for a city." > --Italo Calvino > > >Halvard Johnson >================ >halvard at gmail.com >http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home >http://entropyandme.blogspot.com >http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com >http://www.hamiltonstone.org > > > > > >On Thu, Oct 22, 2009 at 11:57 AM, Bob Grumman ><bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net> wrote: >I just had a visual poem posted at > ><http://galleryofwriting.org/galleries/87707> > >I'm making this announcement more to alert others of a site possibly >worth sending poems to than to promote myself. Go to its home page >and decide for yourself if it is. I know very little about it. A >friend is curating the gallery (for visual and related poems) where >my poem is, which is how I got into it, but my impression is that >anyone can get a poem posted somewhere at the site, and that it may >even be seen by people, particularly schoolteachers. The best case >scenario would be that your work is seen by an English teacher, who >then teaches it. > >Any comments, negative or positive, on my poem are welcome, as always. > >--Bob G. (who spent the Sunday before last Sunday in a penthouse >apartment overlooking Central Park and rather liked it) > > >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry Announcing The Whole Island: Six Decades of Cuban Poetry (University of California Press). Forthcoming in November 2009. http://go.ucpress.edu/WholeIsland From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Thu Oct 22 13:47:37 2009 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2009 12:47:37 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Website You Can Send Poems To In-Reply-To: References: <4AD3B321.6020805@nut-n-but.net> <4AD468E9.3070902@nut-n-but.net><7db1d01b0910170524v7a90b859h9b36d338a0c3670b@mail.gmail.com><4ADDA6B1.10803@nut-n-but.net><7d b1d01b0910212017s55de4ff8o7423a8e222685029@mail.gmail.com><4AE08F0D.208@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <4AE09AB9.7000003@nut-n-but.net> Halvard Johnson wrote: > Better to promote yourself than to stay in 1st grade forever. > > Hal Hal, civilized people don't indulge in gradism. There's nothing wrong with staying in 1st grade forever, or so I've been told by those who have done that. I never made it that far. --Bob From skip at louisiana.edu Thu Oct 22 14:33:56 2009 From: skip at louisiana.edu (Skip Fox) Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2009 13:33:56 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: FW: deaf student and scansion In-Reply-To: <7db1d01b0910212017s55de4ff8o7423a8e222685029@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Mystical? Well, I agree to an extent, yet there are measurable qualities that unless you are talking about a "dead student and poetry," the term "mystical" might be deceptive. -----Original Message----- From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Judy Prince Sent: Wednesday, October 21, 2009 10:17 PM To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &,Views Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Fwd: FW: deaf student and scansion Quite right, Bob. Long live the Great Mysteries! ashamed analyser Judy 2009/10/20 Bob Grumman Judy Prince wrote: Still on this thread, but again responding in general. Visiting Glasgow this week [my first time!], I'm hearing musical Glaswegian speech and thinking about speech, poetry, and music---especially about comparing how music and poetry are "measured" and figuring out what qualities make speech/ poetry "musical". You're being way too analytical, Judy. You're trying to be rational about a Great Mystery. All we can meaningfully say about music and poetry is that they are sacred. --Bob _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jbalizsprince at googlemail.com Thu Oct 22 14:57:22 2009 From: jbalizsprince at googlemail.com (Judy Prince) Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2009 14:57:22 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: FW: deaf student and scansion In-Reply-To: References: <7db1d01b0910212017s55de4ff8o7423a8e222685029@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7db1d01b0910221157w162a537dye44263d176010073@mail.gmail.com> BobGrummidge and me are being ironic, Skip. He, after all, is the NP taxonomist extraordinaire, and I his acolyte. Best, Judy 2009/10/22 Skip Fox > Mystical? Well, I agree to an extent, yet there are measurable qualities > that unless you are talking about a ?dead student and poetry,? the term > ?mystical? might be deceptive. > > > > -----Original Message----- > *From:* new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto: > new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] *On Behalf Of *Judy Prince > *Sent:* Wednesday, October 21, 2009 10:17 PM > *To:* NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &,Views > *Subject:* Re: [New-Poetry] Fwd: FW: deaf student and scansion > > > > Quite right, Bob. Long live the Great Mysteries! > > > > ashamed analyser Judy > > 2009/10/20 Bob Grumman > > Judy Prince wrote: > > Still on this thread, but again responding in general. > > > > Visiting Glasgow this week [my first time!], I'm hearing musical Glaswegian > speech and thinking about speech, poetry, and music---especially about > comparing how music and poetry are "measured" and figuring out what > qualities make speech/ poetry ?musical?. > > > > You're being way too analytical, Judy. You're trying to be rational about > a Great Mystery. All we can meaningfully say about music and poetry is that > they are sacred. > > --Bob > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Thu Oct 22 15:25:51 2009 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2009 15:25:51 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Lenore Kandel RIP Message-ID: <8CC216499A3DF49-4FD0-1670F@webmail-d033.sysops.aol.com> http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2009/10/22/BAN61A8O9A.DTL Lenore Kandel hung out with Beat poets and was immortalized by Jack Kerouac, wrote a book of love poetry banned as obscene and seized by police, and believed in communal living, anarchic street theater, belly dancing, and all things beautiful. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ms. Kandel, a lyric poet and one of the shining lights of San Francisco's famous counterculture of the '60s, died on Oct. 18 in San Francisco. She was 77 and had been diagnosed with lung cancer two weeks earlier. Read more: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2009/10/22/BAN61A8O9A.DTL#ixzz0Uh70AUQ9 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Thu Oct 22 15:29:59 2009 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2009 15:29:59 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] TS Eliot Prize shortlist Message-ID: <8CC21652DAB9F79-4FD0-1685D@webmail-d033.sysops.aol.com> http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2009/oct/22/ts-eliot-prize-shortlist The Sun-fish by Eil?an N? Chuille?nain Continental Shelf by Fred D'Aguiar Over by Jane Draycott The Water Table by Philip Gross Through the Square Window by Sin?ad Morrissey One Secret Thing by Sharon Olds Weeds & Wild Flowers by Alice Oswald A Scattering by Christopher Reid The Burning of the Books and Other Poems by George Szirtes West End Final by Hugo Williams - -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From c.a.b.daly at gmail.com Thu Oct 22 15:44:48 2009 From: c.a.b.daly at gmail.com (Catherine Daly) Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2009 12:44:48 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Lenore Kandel RIP In-Reply-To: <8CC216499A3DF49-4FD0-1670F@webmail-d033.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CC216499A3DF49-4FD0-1670F@webmail-d033.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: I was trying to contact her to publish a collected; she was difficult to access --I tried by mail and through diPrima -- some friend of hers who was able to get her permission to publish -- and give her the vast fortune! which would come from that -- got the permissions and of course doesn't really have a press or publish anything, and doesn't seem equipped to do so; I'm sure this isn't going to make it much easier to revive her work although I think at one time Wyona Ryder's parents were in contact with her? she used to read a lot with McClure and some of the work is similar -- All best, Catherine Daly c.a.b.daly at gmail.com From jfq at myuw.net Fri Oct 23 02:18:03 2009 From: jfq at myuw.net (Jason Quackenbush) Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2009 23:18:03 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] i hurt amber tamblyn's feelings Message-ID: <263FDE38-6167-4FB3-B766-B4A2A6B50853@myuw.net> this is what google alerts are for: http://www.tampabay.com/features/books/amber-tamblyn-acting-out-a-literary-dream/1046011 -JFQ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Fri Oct 23 07:59:38 2009 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Fri, 23 Oct 2009 06:59:38 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] i hurt amber tamblyn's feelings In-Reply-To: <263FDE38-6167-4FB3-B766-B4A2A6B50853@myuw.net> References: <263FDE38-6167-4FB3-B766-B4A2A6B50853@myuw.net> Message-ID: <4AE19AAA.7040308@nut-n-but.net> Fool! Now it's near-certain that Simon and Schuster will never publish you. --Bob From amyhappens at yahoo.com Fri Oct 23 09:49:50 2009 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king) Date: Fri, 23 Oct 2009 06:49:50 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] i hurt amber tamblyn's feelings In-Reply-To: <263FDE38-6167-4FB3-B766-B4A2A6B50853@myuw.net> Message-ID: <292900.80720.qm@web83302.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> They could have linked your name to your blog, at the very least.? But you got an ode, of sorts, out of the deal ... that's something, no?? And now she's a "writer who isn't writing" alas... --- On Fri, 10/23/09, Jason Quackenbush wrote: this is what google alerts are for:?http://www.tampabay.com/features/books/amber-tamblyn-acting-out-a-literary-dream/1046011 -JFQ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cervantes.james at gmail.com Fri Oct 23 09:51:11 2009 From: cervantes.james at gmail.com (James Cervantes) Date: Fri, 23 Oct 2009 06:51:11 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] i hurt amber tamblyn's feelings In-Reply-To: <292900.80720.qm@web83302.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: <263FDE38-6167-4FB3-B766-B4A2A6B50853@myuw.net> <292900.80720.qm@web83302.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <648208b60910230651i44064d7fi8ed4d451cb03d4dc@mail.gmail.com> Yeah, and I hope you got that slot machine fixed. - Jim On Fri, Oct 23, 2009 at 6:49 AM, amy king wrote: > They could have linked your name to your blog, at the very least. But you > got an ode, of sorts, out of the deal ... that's something, no? And now > she's a "writer who isn't writing" alas... > > --- On *Fri, 10/23/09, Jason Quackenbush *wrote: > > this is what google alerts are for: > http://www.tampabay.com/features/books/amber-tamblyn-acting-out-a-literary-dream/1046011 > > -JFQ > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd at ripon.edu Fri Oct 23 10:38:11 2009 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Fri, 23 Oct 2009 09:38:11 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] i hurt amber tamblyn's feelings In-Reply-To: <4AE19AAA.7040308@nut-n-but.net> References: <263FDE38-6167-4FB3-B766-B4A2A6B50853@myuw.net> <4AE19AAA.7040308@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: Interesting that Simon & Schuster did publish her first book (S & S is a subsidiary of CBS, I believe) but not her second, which appeared from Manic D Press, a slam/outlaw outfit in San Francisco, "with emphasis on those who have been shunned by the traditional publishing establishment for lacking commercial viability, regardless of their talent or future promise." So I'm guessing that either the first book didn't sell at all (hard to believe of a celebrity product) or else Tamblyn decided to opt for some alternative po-cred. Good for her, if that's true. Manic D is a lively and interesting press, publishing poets like Matt Cook and Jeffrey McDaniel. And though I've never heard of her until a couple weeks ago, it seems Tamblyn is famous. May her book (which I haven't seen) provide an influx of funding for future Manic D publishing. . . . ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.me.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== On Oct 23, 2009, at 6:59 AM, Bob Grumman wrote: > Fool! Now it's near-certain that Simon and Schuster will never > publish you. > > --Bob > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From AlMaginnes at aol.com Fri Oct 23 10:48:19 2009 From: AlMaginnes at aol.com (AlMaginnes at aol.com) Date: Fri, 23 Oct 2009 10:48:19 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] i hurt amber tamblyn's feelings Message-ID: Yes, and soon our classes will be filled with wide eyed young things telling us that Amber is their favorite poet. I crushed one girl when I told her she was already a better poet than Jewel. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd at ripon.edu Fri Oct 23 11:17:26 2009 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Fri, 23 Oct 2009 10:17:26 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: i hurt amber tamblyn's feelings In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <69907444-2979-4B22-94D7-9859B3794DC0@ripon.edu> I know what you mean--I truly do--but I'm always OK with students who arrive in my classes loving Jewell or whatever flavor of the month it may be, or, for that matter, Bukowski & such. Because at least they love SOMETHING on the page. I have something to work with. The students who make me issue big sighs are the ones who, though they aspire to be poets, don't much care for poetry at all. Or understand why they should. One of the best students I ever had was Aaron Anstett, who arrived in my class as a huge Richard Brautigan fan, writing poems that were nearly indistinguishable from Brautigan's. Now I enjoy Brautigan a lot, but he is hardly Yeats, and not a deep model to build much on. But Aaron had the true fire, and soon enough was making crazy leaps and bounds and maturing into a top notch poet by the time he got his degree. Read more about Aaron, and see some poems, here: http://www.unco.edu/colopoets/poets/anstett_aaron/index.html ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.me.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== On Oct 23, 2009, at 9:48 AM, AlMaginnes at aol.com wrote: > Yes, and soon our classes will be filled with wide eyed young things > telling us that Amber is their favorite poet. I crushed one girl > when I told her she was already a better poet than Jewel. > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From AlMaginnes at aol.com Fri Oct 23 11:28:51 2009 From: AlMaginnes at aol.com (AlMaginnes at aol.com) Date: Fri, 23 Oct 2009 11:28:51 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: i hurt amber tamblyn's feelings Message-ID: I have one of Aaron's books, his first one I guess. I just got a paper from a student who wrote about Bukowski's THE DAYS RUN AWAY LIKE WILD HORSES OVER THE HILLS who said that she'd never looked at another book of Bukowski's because she was afraid she wouldn't love it as much. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Opus40-01 at opus40.org Fri Oct 23 11:29:29 2009 From: Opus40-01 at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Fri, 23 Oct 2009 11:29:29 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] i hurt amber tamblyn's feelings In-Reply-To: <648208b60910230651i44064d7fi8ed4d451cb03d4dc@mail.gmail.com> References: <263FDE38-6167-4FB3-B766-B4A2A6B50853@myuw.net> <292900.80720.qm@web83302.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <648208b60910230651i44064d7fi8ed4d451cb03d4dc@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4AE1CBD9.8050301@opus40.org> That line about the fast food rest room isn't bad. James Cervantes wrote: > Yeah, and I hope you got that slot machine fixed. > > - Jim > > On Fri, Oct 23, 2009 at 6:49 AM, amy king > wrote: > > They could have linked your name to your blog, at the very least. > But you got an ode, of sorts, out of the deal ... that's > something, no? And now she's a "writer who isn't writing" alas... > > --- On *Fri, 10/23/09, Jason Quackenbush *wrote: > > this is what google alerts are > for: http://www.tampabay.com/features/books/amber-tamblyn-acting-out-a-literary-dream/1046011 > > > -JFQ > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Tad Richards Read my NY Writing Careers Examiner column today! http://www.examiner.com/x-2862-NY-Writing-Careers-Examiner http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ From c.a.b.daly at gmail.com Fri Oct 23 12:22:16 2009 From: c.a.b.daly at gmail.com (Catherine Daly) Date: Fri, 23 Oct 2009 09:22:16 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] i hurt amber tamblyn's feelings In-Reply-To: References: <263FDE38-6167-4FB3-B766-B4A2A6B50853@myuw.net> <4AE19AAA.7040308@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: Manic D publishes, and Tamblyn apparently supports, California's worst/most typical WHITE slam/academic poets; the Drums thing was done once at a local film festival and made into a film, so -- how is that a festival? I love the locution, "the general world will not base you..." Hmmm. On Fri, Oct 23, 2009 at 7:38 AM, David Graham wrote: > Interesting that Simon & Schuster did publish her first book (S & S is a > subsidiary of CBS, I believe) but not her second, which appeared from Manic > D Press, a slam/outlaw outfit in San Francisco, "with emphasis on those who > have been shunned by the traditional publishing establishment for lacking > commercial viability, regardless of their talent or future promise." > So I'm guessing that either the first book didn't sell at all (hard to > believe of a celebrity product) or else Tamblyn decided to opt for some > alternative po-cred. ?Good for her, if that's true. ?Manic D is a lively and > interesting press, publishing poets like Matt Cook and Jeffrey McDaniel. > ?And though I've never heard of her until a couple weeks ago, it seems > Tamblyn is famous. ?May her book (which I haven't seen) provide an influx of > funding for future Manic D publishing. . . . > > > ======================================== > David Graham > grahamd at ripon.edu > Home Page: > http://web.me.com/drjazz > Poetry Library: > http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html > ========================================== > > > > On Oct 23, 2009, at 6:59 AM, Bob Grumman wrote: > > Fool! ?Now it's near-certain that Simon and Schuster will never publish you. > > --Bob > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- All best, Catherine Daly c.a.b.daly at gmail.com From r_loden at sbcglobal.net Fri Oct 23 12:26:02 2009 From: r_loden at sbcglobal.net (Rachel Loden) Date: Fri, 23 Oct 2009 09:26:02 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Lenore Kandel RIP In-Reply-To: References: <8CC216499A3DF49-4FD0-1670F@webmail-d033.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <45F7EB981FFA408094226D6A2375A685@GlassCastle> Oh no. I saw her read with Ted Berrigan at the Berkeley Poetry Conference, thousands of years ago. One of the few women there. Catherine, I wish you were publishing her. She would make an interesting study for anyone who wanted to look at how women survived (or didn't) in the poetry scene, back in the day. Rachel > -----Original Message----- > From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] > On Behalf Of Catherine Daly > Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2009 12:45 PM > To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &,Views > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Lenore Kandel RIP > > I was trying to contact her to publish a collected; she was difficult > to access --I tried by mail and through diPrima -- some friend of hers > who was able to get her permission to publish -- and give her the vast > fortune! which would come from that -- got the permissions and of > course doesn't really have a press or publish anything, and doesn't > seem equipped to do so; I'm sure this isn't going to make it much > easier to revive her work > > although I think at one time Wyona Ryder's parents were in contact with her? > > she used to read a lot with McClure and some of the work is similar > -- > All best, > Catherine Daly > c.a.b.daly at gmail.com > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From r_loden at sbcglobal.net Fri Oct 23 12:28:31 2009 From: r_loden at sbcglobal.net (Rachel Loden) Date: Fri, 23 Oct 2009 09:28:31 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Kate Greenstreet, Anna Leahy, & Rachel Loden in Santa Cruz Message-ID: Please come check us out and say hello if you're in the Santa Cruz area! Kate Greenstreet, Anna Leahy, and Rachel Loden Sunday, October 25 A New Cadence Series http://anewcadence.blogspot.com/ Felix Kulpa Gallery 107 Elm Street (behind Streetlight Records) Santa Cruz, CA 7:30 p.m. Info: jamaughn at cabrillo.edu Kate Greenstreet's second book, The Last 4 Things, is new from Ahsahta Press and includes a DVD containing two short films. Ahsahta published Greenstreet's case sensitive in 2006. She is also the author of three chapbooks, most recently This is why I hurt you (Lame House Press, 2008). Find her new work in current or forthcoming issues of jubilat, Fence, VOLT, the Denver Quarterly, Court Green, and other journals. More at http://www.kickingwind.com/ Anna Leahy is the winner of the 2006 Stan and Tom Wick Poetry Prize for her book, Constituents of Matter, published by The Kent State University Press. Leahy has two chapbooks: Turns about a Point and Hagioscope. Her poetry appears in journals such as the Connecticut Review, Crab Orchard Review, The Journal, and Phoebe. She teaches and coordinates the Tabula Poetica reading series at Chapman University. More at http://www.amleahy.com/index.html Rachel Loden is the author of Dick of the Dead, which came out in May. Her first book, Hotel Imperium, was selected as one of the ten best poetry books of the year by the San Francisco Chronicle. Honors include two appearances in the Best American Poetry series, a Pushcart Prize, an &NOW Award, a fellowship from the California Arts Council, and a grant from the Fund for Poetry. More: http://ahsahtapress.boisestate.edu/books/loden/loden.htm -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Fri Oct 23 12:55:52 2009 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Fri, 23 Oct 2009 12:55:52 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: Listen to Poet Franz Wright Read from Wheeling Motel In-Reply-To: <1009679917764.1103645439.1256307680560@enginex2.emv2.com> References: <1009679917764.1103645439.1256307680560@enginex2.emv2.com> Message-ID: <8CC2218D0795FAB-4F68-BAB7@webmail-d058.sysops.aol.com> -----Original Message----- From: The Borzoi Reader | Knopf Poetry Sent: Fri, Oct 23, 2009 10:21 am Subject: Listen to Poet Franz Wright Read from Wheeling Motel If you cannot view images in your e-mail, please visit http://www.randomhouse.com/kdpg/knopf/poetry/franz_wright.html AAKNOPF.COM FACEBOOK TWITTER POEM-A-DAY 2009 SPECIAL OFFERS "What is a book of poems if not a collection, or commemoration, of one person's best and happiest hours?" ?Franz Wright Pulitzer Prize-winning poet Franz Wright shares the culmination of some of his happiest hours with us once again this fall, with his newest collection, Wheeling Motel. Wheeling Motel is all that we have come to expect from Franz Wright?a selection of skillfully crafted, heartbreakingly honest poetry, an effort that the New York Times Book Review has already praised as "uningratiating, bumptiously witty...and routinely surprising." The new book comes with a unique complement?a number of the poems have been adapted into musical tracks, a project appropriately titled "Readings from Wheeling Motel." The poems are recited by Franz Wright himself and set to original music, the beautiful result of a collaboration with celebrated musician Daniel Ahearn (Ill Lit) and acclaimed producer Michael Rozon (Brazzaville, Melvins). Inspired by Wright's poetry, they set out to create a "dreamy counterpoint to Wright's delicate, deliberate lines," which hauntingly frames "the poet's singular husky and plaintive growl." "Readings from Wheeling Motel," a project that speaks to Wright's place as both an artist and an inspiration, offers the rare opportunity to experience this world-class poet in a uniquely personal and direct manner. Listen to two featured poems, "Wheeling Motel" and "Day One" at aaknopf.com Buy Wheeling Motel KEEP CLICKING Meet Franz Wright in New York City on October 26th at louderARTS @ Bar 13, 35 East 13th Street at 7:30pm. Meet Franz Wright in Somerville, MA on October 28th at the Woodberry Poetry Room - Barker Center, Harvard College, 12 Quincy Street, at 7:00pm. More about Wheeling Motel About Franz Wright Recent Poetry Titles From Knopf: Selected Poems of Wallace Stevens, edited by John Serio; News of the World by Philip Levine; and Easy by Marie Ponsot All the latest on Knopf titles Download a free broadside of "The Hotel Room Mirror" Meet W. S. DiPiero -- You have received this message because you have subscribed to the Knopf Poetry list. To change your subscription information, receive additional enewsletters or to unsubscribe from this list, please visit our email preference center. View our privacy policy. Copyright ? 1995-2009 Random House, Inc. All rights reserved. The Knopf Doubleday Publishing Group, Random House, Inc., 1745 Broadway, New York, NY 10019 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd at ripon.edu Fri Oct 23 13:14:33 2009 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Fri, 23 Oct 2009 12:14:33 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] i hurt amber tamblyn's feelings In-Reply-To: References: <263FDE38-6167-4FB3-B766-B4A2A6B50853@myuw.net> <4AE19AAA.7040308@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <2F60667C-FF2F-457C-BAE5-4D6B75259B07@ripon.edu> On Oct 23, 2009, at 11:22 AM, Catherine Daly wrote: > Manic D publishes, and Tamblyn apparently supports, California's > worst/most typical WHITE slam/academic poets; the Drums thing was done > once at a local film festival and made into a film, so -- how is that > a festival? > > I love the locution, "the general world will not base you..." Hmmm. ====================== If Jeffrey McDaniel and Matt Cook represent what's worst about California poetry, I guess we'll have to disagree. Having heard both of them read, I'll concede that they are, in fact, apparently Caucasian. ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.me.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From c.a.b.daly at gmail.com Fri Oct 23 13:18:05 2009 From: c.a.b.daly at gmail.com (Catherine Daly) Date: Fri, 23 Oct 2009 10:18:05 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Lenore Kandel RIP In-Reply-To: <45F7EB981FFA408094226D6A2375A685@GlassCastle> References: <8CC216499A3DF49-4FD0-1670F@webmail-d033.sysops.aol.com> <45F7EB981FFA408094226D6A2375A685@GlassCastle> Message-ID: she was one of the Venice, CA, beats, and self published and illustrated two-three chapbooks when she was a waitress here word alchemy is the book on Grove; the love book is a little chapbook I think it might be contained in word alchemy, but I'm not sure she had that terrible motorcycle accident, I guess that was the end of her mobility? ability to perform? On Fri, Oct 23, 2009 at 9:26 AM, Rachel Loden wrote: > Oh no. I saw her read with Ted Berrigan at the Berkeley Poetry Conference, > thousands of years ago. One of the few women there. Catherine, I wish you > were publishing her. > > She would make an interesting study for anyone who wanted to look at how > women survived (or didn't) in the poetry scene, back in the day. > > Rachel > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu > [mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] >> On Behalf Of Catherine Daly >> Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2009 12:45 PM >> To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &,Views >> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Lenore Kandel RIP >> >> I was trying to contact her to publish a collected; she was difficult >> to access --I tried by mail and through diPrima -- some friend of hers >> who was able to get her permission to publish -- and give her the vast >> fortune! which would come from that -- got the permissions and of >> course doesn't really have a press or publish anything, and doesn't >> seem equipped to do so; I'm sure this isn't going to make it much >> easier to revive her work >> >> although I think at one time Wyona Ryder's parents were in contact with > her? >> >> she used to read a lot with McClure and some of the work is similar >> -- >> All best, >> Catherine Daly >> c.a.b.daly at gmail.com >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- All best, Catherine Daly c.a.b.daly at gmail.com From c.a.b.daly at gmail.com Fri Oct 23 13:22:07 2009 From: c.a.b.daly at gmail.com (Catherine Daly) Date: Fri, 23 Oct 2009 10:22:07 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] i hurt amber tamblyn's feelings In-Reply-To: <2F60667C-FF2F-457C-BAE5-4D6B75259B07@ripon.edu> References: <263FDE38-6167-4FB3-B766-B4A2A6B50853@myuw.net> <4AE19AAA.7040308@nut-n-but.net> <2F60667C-FF2F-457C-BAE5-4D6B75259B07@ripon.edu> Message-ID: correction; Manic D has published two Asian Americans and one Latina -- All best, Catherine Daly c.a.b.daly at gmail.com From jforjames at aol.com Fri Oct 23 13:32:46 2009 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Fri, 23 Oct 2009 13:32:46 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] i hurt amber tamblyn's feelings In-Reply-To: References: <263FDE38-6167-4FB3-B766-B4A2A6B50853@myuw.net><4AE19AAA.7040308@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <8CC221DF859DC5F-4F68-C52C@webmail-d058.sysops.aol.com> I don't know about 'worst' but http://www.manicdpress.com/ doesn't look very academic. Slam as in a competitive performance poetry was started by Marc Smith in Chicago's Green Mill. He's white, and many of the top slam poets are white. Nuyorican Cafe and Boston Slam followed close behind. History (incomplete) here: http://www.e-poets.net/library/slam/ & from Wiki.. A number of poets belong to both academia and slam: Jeffrey McDaniel started as a slammer but has published several books and currently teaches at Sarah Lawrence College; Bob Holman founded the Nuyorican Poetry Slam has taught for years at the New School, Bard, Columbia and NYU; Craig Arnold won the Yale Series of Younger Poets Competition and has competed at slams; Sam Pierstorff created the ILL LIST Poetry Slam Invitational, is the Poet Laureate of Modesto, CA, and has published poems in various conventional journals; Ragan Fox, a Performance Studies professor at California State University, Long Beach, has been a finalist in the individual competition at the National Poetry Slam; Kip Fulbeck, a professor of Art at the University of California, Santa Barbara competed in slam in the early-90's and initiated the first spoken word course to be taught as part of a college art program's core curriculum; and poet-novelist Douglas A. Martin was a founding member of the Athens, GA slam team, competing at the National Poetry Slam in Ann Arbor, Michigan and Portland, OR in the mid-90s. Poets and academics such as Michael Salinger, Felice Bell, Javon Johnson, Susan B. Anthony Somers-Willett, Robbie Q. Telfer, Phil West, Karyna McGlynn and Scott Dillard have devoted much attention to the merging of the poetry slam community and the academic community in their respective scholarly works. Some renown poets are less successful in slam. Henry Taylor, winner of the 1985 Pulitzer Prize for Poetry, competed in the 1997 National Poetry Slam as an individual and placed 75th out of 150. -- Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: Catherine Daly Sent: Fri, Oct 23, 2009 12:22 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] i hurt amber tamblyn's feelings Manic D publishes, and Tamblyn apparently supports, California's orst/most typical WHITE slam/academic poets; the Drums thing was done nce at a local film festival and made into a film, so -- how is that festival? I love the locution, "the general world will not base you..." Hmmm. On Fri, Oct 23, 2009 at 7:38 AM, David Graham wrote: Interesting that Simon & Schuster did publish her first book (S & S is a subsidiary of CBS, I believe) but not her second, which appeared from Manic D Press, a slam/outlaw outfit in San Francisco, "with emphasis on those who have been shunned by the traditional publishing establishment for lacking commercial viability, regardless of their talent or future promise." So I'm guessing that either the first book didn't sell at all (hard to believe of a celebrity product) or else Tamblyn decided to opt for some alternative po-cred. Good for her, if that's true. Manic D is a lively and interesting press, publishing poets like Matt Cook and Jeffrey McDaniel. And though I've never heard of her until a couple weeks ago, it seems Tamblyn is famous. May her book (which I haven't seen) provide an influx of funding for future Manic D publishing. . . . ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.me.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== On Oct 23, 2009, at 6:59 AM, Bob Grumman wrote: Fool! Now it's near-certain that Simon and Schuster will never publish you. --Bob _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -- ll best, atherine Daly .a.b.daly at gmail.com _______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From r_loden at sbcglobal.net Fri Oct 23 14:04:36 2009 From: r_loden at sbcglobal.net (Rachel Loden) Date: Fri, 23 Oct 2009 11:04:36 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Lenore Kandel RIP In-Reply-To: References: <8CC216499A3DF49-4FD0-1670F@webmail-d033.sysops.aol.com><45F7EB981FFA408094226D6A2375A685@GlassCastle> Message-ID: <5C352E9FCE6940F5AAD3A8DBCE5F32B6@GlassCastle> I guess I was thinking about the way she was slotted (or slotted herself) as a sort of slum goddess of the beat scene. I always wondered whether she had any ambivalence about that, because as a teenage girl (at the time!), watching her, I did. I was looking for models (there were precious few) and this seemed in part like caricature, like something performed for the male gaze. That Chronicle piece picks up the mythologizing banner and carries it on: "Lenore Kandel hung out with Beat poets and was immortalized by Jack Kerouac, wrote a book of love poetry banned as obscene and seized by police, and believed in communal living, anarchic street theater, belly dancing, and all things beautiful..." Hmm, why do I think it might have been a bit more complicated than that. Rachel > -----Original Message----- > From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] > On Behalf Of Catherine Daly > Sent: Friday, October 23, 2009 10:18 AM > To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &,Views > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Lenore Kandel RIP > > she was one of the Venice, CA, beats, and self published and > illustrated two-three chapbooks when she was a waitress here > > word alchemy is the book on Grove; the love book is a little chapbook > I think it might be contained in word alchemy, but I'm not sure > > she had that terrible motorcycle accident, I guess that was the end of > her mobility? ability to perform? > > > On Fri, Oct 23, 2009 at 9:26 AM, Rachel Loden wrote: > > Oh no. I saw her read with Ted Berrigan at the Berkeley Poetry Conference, > > thousands of years ago. One of the few women there. Catherine, I wish you > > were publishing her. > > > > She would make an interesting study for anyone who wanted to look at how > > women survived (or didn't) in the poetry scene, back in the day. > > > > Rachel > > > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > [mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] > >> On Behalf Of Catherine Daly > >> Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2009 12:45 PM > >> To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &,Views > >> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Lenore Kandel RIP > >> > >> I was trying to contact her to publish a collected; she was difficult > >> to access --I tried by mail and through diPrima -- some friend of hers > >> who was able to get her permission to publish -- and give her the vast > >> fortune! which would come from that -- got the permissions and of > >> course doesn't really have a press or publish anything, and doesn't > >> seem equipped to do so; I'm sure this isn't going to make it much > >> easier to revive her work > >> > >> although I think at one time Wyona Ryder's parents were in contact with > > her? > >> > >> she used to read a lot with McClure and some of the work is similar > >> -- > >> All best, > >> Catherine Daly > >> c.a.b.daly at gmail.com > >> _______________________________________________ > >> New-Poetry mailing list > >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > > -- > All best, > Catherine Daly > c.a.b.daly at gmail.com > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From GrahamD at ripon.edu Fri Oct 23 14:25:14 2009 From: GrahamD at ripon.edu (Graham, David) Date: Fri, 23 Oct 2009 13:25:14 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] i hurt amber tamblyn's feelings References: <263FDE38-6167-4FB3-B766-B4A2A6B50853@myuw.net><4AE19AAA.7040308@nut-n-but.net><2F60667C-FF2F-457C-BAE5-4D6B75259B07@ripon.edu> Message-ID: <30CA3ED510E3BE4C9E3C15ADC8603F69A8DAF4@URANIUM.ripon.college> For my part, I was mostly curious as to how to read the following phrase: "California's worst/most typical WHITE slam/academic poets." Is that one accusation (worst/typical/WHITE) or three ? ================================ Home page: http://web.me.com/drjazz/ Poetry Library: http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ==================================== -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/ms-tnef Size: 2788 bytes Desc: not available URL: From c.a.b.daly at gmail.com Fri Oct 23 14:40:12 2009 From: c.a.b.daly at gmail.com (Catherine Daly) Date: Fri, 23 Oct 2009 11:40:12 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Lenore Kandel RIP In-Reply-To: <5C352E9FCE6940F5AAD3A8DBCE5F32B6@GlassCastle> References: <8CC216499A3DF49-4FD0-1670F@webmail-d033.sysops.aol.com> <45F7EB981FFA408094226D6A2375A685@GlassCastle> <5C352E9FCE6940F5AAD3A8DBCE5F32B6@GlassCastle> Message-ID: lots of sadomasochistic coding in the poems boy, that wikipedia page is inaccurate there's an interview which mentions that her father was in the CP in brooklyn? or is the interview so rambling that that's someone else's parent? I don't know much about the Diggers -- All best, Catherine Daly c.a.b.daly at gmail.com From r_loden at sbcglobal.net Fri Oct 23 14:43:27 2009 From: r_loden at sbcglobal.net (Rachel Loden) Date: Fri, 23 Oct 2009 11:43:27 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Lenore Kandel RIP In-Reply-To: References: <8CC216499A3DF49-4FD0-1670F@webmail-d033.sysops.aol.com><45F7EB981FFA408094226D6A2375A685@GlassCastle> Message-ID: <55CABD5A44BD421F961E91A337051B36@GlassCastle> This (from a "lucibellecrater" in the comment box of the Chronicle story) seems to indicate that Kandel was still ambulatory in 2007: "In 2007, at the 40th anniversary celebration of the Summer of Love in Golden Gate Park, Kandel came on stage and read one of her poems, an absolutely incendiary and hilarious diatribe. To my ears, it blew away all the music that was played that day. If anyone knows what poem she read that day, please post title and collection. I recall a line about ladies buying their underwear on credit." So I wonder when that motorcycle accident happened . . . Rachel > -----Original Message----- > From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] > On Behalf Of Catherine Daly > Sent: Friday, October 23, 2009 10:18 AM > To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &,Views > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Lenore Kandel RIP > > she was one of the Venice, CA, beats, and self published and > illustrated two-three chapbooks when she was a waitress here > > word alchemy is the book on Grove; the love book is a little chapbook > I think it might be contained in word alchemy, but I'm not sure > > she had that terrible motorcycle accident, I guess that was the end of > her mobility? ability to perform? > > > On Fri, Oct 23, 2009 at 9:26 AM, Rachel Loden wrote: > > Oh no. I saw her read with Ted Berrigan at the Berkeley Poetry Conference, > > thousands of years ago. One of the few women there. Catherine, I wish you > > were publishing her. > > > > She would make an interesting study for anyone who wanted to look at how > > women survived (or didn't) in the poetry scene, back in the day. > > > > Rachel > > > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > [mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] > >> On Behalf Of Catherine Daly > >> Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2009 12:45 PM > >> To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &,Views > >> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Lenore Kandel RIP > >> > >> I was trying to contact her to publish a collected; she was difficult > >> to access --I tried by mail and through diPrima -- some friend of hers > >> who was able to get her permission to publish -- and give her the vast > >> fortune! which would come from that -- got the permissions and of > >> course doesn't really have a press or publish anything, and doesn't > >> seem equipped to do so; I'm sure this isn't going to make it much > >> easier to revive her work > >> > >> although I think at one time Wyona Ryder's parents were in contact with > > her? > >> > >> she used to read a lot with McClure and some of the work is similar > >> -- > >> All best, > >> Catherine Daly > >> c.a.b.daly at gmail.com > >> _______________________________________________ > >> New-Poetry mailing list > >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > > -- > All best, > Catherine Daly > c.a.b.daly at gmail.com > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From AlMaginnes at aol.com Fri Oct 23 14:53:15 2009 From: AlMaginnes at aol.com (AlMaginnes at aol.com) Date: Fri, 23 Oct 2009 14:53:15 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Lenore Kandel RIP Message-ID: I think the motorcycle accident happened some time in the 70's Peter Coyote talks at some length about her busband, Bill Fritsch, who he calls Sweet Willliam, and to a lesser degree Lenore Kandel in his excellent memoir SLEEPING WHERE I FALL. If you Google the Diggers, you will come across The Digger Papers, which contains a lot of material covering the group and its affiiliates. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From r_loden at sbcglobal.net Fri Oct 23 14:56:02 2009 From: r_loden at sbcglobal.net (Rachel Loden) Date: Fri, 23 Oct 2009 11:56:02 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Lenore Kandel RIP In-Reply-To: References: <8CC216499A3DF49-4FD0-1670F@webmail-d033.sysops.aol.com><45F7EB981FFA408094226D6A2375A685@GlassCastle><5C352E9FCE6940F5AAD3A8DBCE5F32B6@GlassCastle> Message-ID: Well, I remember when the Diggers arrived on the Lower East Side and opened a "free store." It was a nice gesture, I guess, but the streets were too full of amphetamine freaks for it to make much difference. Maybe it was (briefly) different in San Francisco. Suggested soundtrack: "The Velvet Underground & Nico," "Blonde on Blonde." Rachel > -----Original Message----- > From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] > On Behalf Of Catherine Daly > Sent: Friday, October 23, 2009 11:40 AM > To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &,Views > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Lenore Kandel RIP > > lots of sadomasochistic coding in the poems > > boy, that wikipedia page is inaccurate > > there's an interview which mentions that her father was in the CP in > brooklyn? or is the interview so rambling that that's someone else's > parent? I don't know much about the Diggers > > -- > All best, > Catherine Daly > c.a.b.daly at gmail.com > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From jfq at myuw.net Fri Oct 23 15:32:27 2009 From: jfq at myuw.net (Jason Quackenbush) Date: Fri, 23 Oct 2009 12:32:27 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] i hurt amber tamblyn's feelings In-Reply-To: <4AE19AAA.7040308@nut-n-but.net> References: <263FDE38-6167-4FB3-B766-B4A2A6B50853@myuw.net> <4AE19AAA.7040308@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: O they don't care. that's the great advantage of working with a mega multinational conglomerate of nonsensical proportions: They don't have feelings. On Oct 23, 2009, at 4:59 AM, Bob Grumman wrote: > Fool! Now it's near-certain that Simon and Schuster will never > publish you. > > --Bob > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From jfq at myuw.net Fri Oct 23 15:34:21 2009 From: jfq at myuw.net (Jason Quackenbush) Date: Fri, 23 Oct 2009 12:34:21 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] i hurt amber tamblyn's feelings In-Reply-To: <292900.80720.qm@web83302.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: <292900.80720.qm@web83302.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Oh i find the whole thing terribly amusing. and really, there's no way that the editors of the magazine should have known that that Jason Quackenbush is me. it's a very minor article about a very minor celebrity, after all, it's not like they had a team of fact checkers on the story. that said, for folks who are interested, here's the story of how I came to be Amber Tamblyn's nemesis: http://www.wetasphalt.com/?q=content/oh-amber On Oct 23, 2009, at 6:49 AM, amy king wrote: > They could have linked your name to your blog, at the very least. > But you got an ode, of sorts, out of the deal ... that's something, > no? And now she's a "writer who isn't writing" alas... > > --- On Fri, 10/23/09, Jason Quackenbush wrote: > this is what google alerts are for: http://www.tampabay.com/features/books/amber-tamblyn-acting-out-a-literary-dream/1046011 > -JFQ > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From jfq at myuw.net Fri Oct 23 15:35:10 2009 From: jfq at myuw.net (Jason Quackenbush) Date: Fri, 23 Oct 2009 12:35:10 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] i hurt amber tamblyn's feelings In-Reply-To: <648208b60910230651i44064d7fi8ed4d451cb03d4dc@mail.gmail.com> References: <263FDE38-6167-4FB3-B766-B4A2A6B50853@myuw.net> <292900.80720.qm@web83302.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <648208b60910230651i44064d7fi8ed4d451cb03d4dc@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <58C4B0D5-3357-478A-8D4C-B95777FED5E1@myuw.net> bar bar bar On Oct 23, 2009, at 6:51 AM, James Cervantes wrote: > Yeah, and I hope you got that slot machine fixed. > > - Jim > > On Fri, Oct 23, 2009 at 6:49 AM, amy king > wrote: > >> They could have linked your name to your blog, at the very least. >> But you >> got an ode, of sorts, out of the deal ... that's something, no? >> And now >> she's a "writer who isn't writing" alas... >> >> --- On *Fri, 10/23/09, Jason Quackenbush *wrote: >> >> this is what google alerts are for: >> http://www.tampabay.com/features/books/amber-tamblyn-acting-out-a-literary-dream/1046011 >> >> -JFQ >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From c.a.b.daly at gmail.com Fri Oct 23 15:36:29 2009 From: c.a.b.daly at gmail.com (Catherine Daly) Date: Fri, 23 Oct 2009 12:36:29 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] i hurt amber tamblyn's feelings In-Reply-To: <30CA3ED510E3BE4C9E3C15ADC8603F69A8DAF4@URANIUM.ripon.college> References: <263FDE38-6167-4FB3-B766-B4A2A6B50853@myuw.net> <4AE19AAA.7040308@nut-n-but.net> <2F60667C-FF2F-457C-BAE5-4D6B75259B07@ripon.edu> <30CA3ED510E3BE4C9E3C15ADC8603F69A8DAF4@URANIUM.ripon.college> Message-ID: actually, given that the Watts Prophets are from here, any perception that "performance poetry" in Los Angeles is white with one or two exceptions is profoundly incorrect, but unfortunately, among white "open mike" poets, this is exactly the reigning opinion -- it is quite a self supporting little crowd the sloppy surrealism and pseudo ballads! the sentimental rhyme! the drunkalogs! "stage vs. page" as code for rants about parking and buses broken into phrases vs. actual poetry! "page vs. stage" as though it is UC profs writing poetry about vacations in Italy vs. real people who there are profound divisions by race in local poetry, but the "performance poets" are truly bad there is an equally active African American performance poetry community; there are many notable Latino poets who have readings/students, too, but I don't know if they really consider themselves performance poets Saul Williams? Def Poetry Jam? aren't these slam poets? -- All best, Catherine Daly c.a.b.daly at gmail.com From jfq at myuw.net Fri Oct 23 15:40:16 2009 From: jfq at myuw.net (Jason Quackenbush) Date: Fri, 23 Oct 2009 12:40:16 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] i hurt amber tamblyn's feelings In-Reply-To: References: <263FDE38-6167-4FB3-B766-B4A2A6B50853@myuw.net> <4AE19AAA.7040308@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: I don't care for Jeffrey McDaniel or Matt Cook as they represent the vein of slam I really can't stand. I tend to think Manic D tries too hard to be "outlaw" like several other presses I could but won't mention. In any case, trading on the fame of a child star, however, is about as far from outlaw as you can get, and I note that they've published a couple things by Francesca Lia Block, so maybe they're moving in a more interesting direction. On Oct 23, 2009, at 7:38 AM, David Graham wrote: > Interesting that Simon & Schuster did publish her first book (S & S > is a subsidiary of CBS, I believe) but not her second, which > appeared from Manic D Press, a slam/outlaw outfit in San Francisco, > "with emphasis on those who have been shunned by the traditional > publishing establishment for lacking commercial viability, > regardless of their talent or future promise." > > So I'm guessing that either the first book didn't sell at all (hard > to believe of a celebrity product) or else Tamblyn decided to opt > for some alternative po-cred. Good for her, if that's true. Manic > D is a lively and interesting press, publishing poets like Matt Cook > and Jeffrey McDaniel. And though I've never heard of her until a > couple weeks ago, it seems Tamblyn is famous. May her book (which I > haven't seen) provide an influx of funding for future Manic D > publishing. . . . > > > ======================================== > David Graham > grahamd at ripon.edu > > Home Page: > http://web.me.com/drjazz > > Poetry Library: > http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html > ========================================== > > > > > On Oct 23, 2009, at 6:59 AM, Bob Grumman wrote: > >> Fool! Now it's near-certain that Simon and Schuster will never >> publish you. >> >> --Bob >> > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From jfq at myuw.net Fri Oct 23 15:46:45 2009 From: jfq at myuw.net (Jason Quackenbush) Date: Fri, 23 Oct 2009 12:46:45 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] i hurt amber tamblyn's feelings In-Reply-To: References: <263FDE38-6167-4FB3-B766-B4A2A6B50853@myuw.net> <4AE19AAA.7040308@nut-n-but.net> <2F60667C-FF2F-457C-BAE5-4D6B75259B07@ripon.edu> <30CA3ED510E3BE4C9E3C15ADC8603F69A8DAF4@URANIUM.ripon.college> Message-ID: <4F52BB25-1389-4EC3-B8C8-34000F4F1CBE@myuw.net> word. there's a gentrifying element within slam that is attempting to coopt the street level poetry of a working class element and the various veins of latino and african american performance poetry in order to legitimate their own careerist opportunism. there are slam poets that I love and adore. Morris Stegosaurus, Karen Finneyfrock, Rachel McKibbens, Buddy Wakefield, and any number of other people are amazing writers. But slam itself is far too conservative and doctrinaire to live up to its pretensions of being a populist and progressive movement, and the fact that it is simultaneously trying to become establishment by holding up its members in academia like Ragan Fox, Karyna McGlynn and others and still trying to be the rowdy "outlaw" movement that it maybe was fifteen years ago. On Oct 23, 2009, at 12:36 PM, Catherine Daly wrote: > actually, given that the Watts Prophets are from here, any perception > that "performance poetry" in Los Angeles is white with one or two > exceptions is profoundly incorrect, but unfortunately, among white > "open mike" poets, this is exactly the reigning opinion -- it is quite > a self supporting little crowd > > the sloppy surrealism and pseudo ballads! the sentimental rhyme! the > drunkalogs! "stage vs. page" as code for rants about parking and buses > broken into phrases vs. actual poetry! "page vs. stage" as though it > is UC profs writing poetry about vacations in Italy vs. real people > who there are profound divisions by race in local poetry, but the > "performance poets" are truly bad > > there is an equally active African American performance poetry > community; there are many notable Latino poets who have > readings/students, too, but I don't know if they really consider > themselves performance poets > > Saul Williams? > Def Poetry Jam? > > aren't these slam poets? > > -- > All best, > Catherine Daly > c.a.b.daly at gmail.com > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Fri Oct 23 17:04:59 2009 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Fri, 23 Oct 2009 16:04:59 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] i hurt amber tamblyn's feelings In-Reply-To: <4AE1CBD9.8050301@opus40.org> References: <263FDE38-6167-4FB3-B766-B4A2A6B50853@myuw.net> <292900.80720.qm@web83302.mail.sp1.yahoo.com><648208b60910230651i44064d7fi8ed4d451cb03d4dc@mail.gmail.com> <4AE1CBD9.8050301@opus40.org> Message-ID: <4AE21A7B.4070903@nut-n-but.net> TheOldMole wrote: > That line about the fast food rest room isn't bad. I wonder if such a line should even be legal. It's pure restuarantism. Or restroomism, which may be worse. Why can't people be nice to each other? I mean, I don't expect /Quackenbush/ to be nice to anybody, but normal people, like Amber. --Bob G. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jfq at myuw.net Fri Oct 23 16:06:19 2009 From: jfq at myuw.net (Jason Quackenbush) Date: Fri, 23 Oct 2009 13:06:19 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] i hurt amber tamblyn's feelings In-Reply-To: <4AE21A7B.4070903@nut-n-but.net> References: <263FDE38-6167-4FB3-B766-B4A2A6B50853@myuw.net> <292900.80720.qm@web83302.mail.sp1.yahoo.com><648208b60910230651i44064d7fi8ed4d451cb03d4dc@mail.gmail.com> <4AE1CBD9.8050301@opus40.org> <4AE21A7B.4070903@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <5B6D7ACB-CDF7-4871-93D5-F384081A6952@myuw.net> I bet Paul Zukofsky could have a field day with the illegality of such stuff. On Oct 23, 2009, at 2:04 PM, Bob Grumman wrote: > TheOldMole wrote: >> That line about the fast food rest room isn't bad. > I wonder if such a line should even be legal. It's pure > restuarantism. Or restroomism, which may be worse. Why can't > people be nice to each other? I mean, I don't expect /Quackenbush/ > to be nice to anybody, but normal people, like Amber. > > --Bob G. > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From Rsgwynn1 at cs.com Fri Oct 23 16:19:07 2009 From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com (Rsgwynn1 at cs.com) Date: Fri, 23 Oct 2009 16:19:07 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] i hurt amber tamblyn's feelings Message-ID: Plenty of Ships ? Amber Tamblyn Long standing A tribe of the quiet Carrying in the tide I see waves I've never seen before And sounds I've never heard. Long standing A nursery of tall, primitive sculptures Tying the links between their bows And the primordial waters which keep them afloat. As they repetitively curtsy in the whirlpool of warm July waters, I repetitively watch, A gazer stealing a glance at what the image of God may be like. I've seen a painting like this, Capturing what paint can capture, But forgetting about the distinct elegance in which these ships are riding. Planting ten toes amongst the billions of grains of sand, I imagine the journey to be somewhat spectacular I would be the girl, A pirate of the unknown fogs that wash out the morning sunrises, A sailor of imperative winds that shift my ships from here to there. I would be the girl, Watching the shore like a distant thread of a smile, Waiting for the cold-blooded vertebrates to direct me In whatever way the sea has directed them. Envious of the closeness between salt and water, I'm sure I could disappear into the crevice between the sky and sea. Long standing I see plenty of ships Like wise old battle men I watch them climb the ridges on the tearful eyes of mother earth. She watches them fade across her deep dark blues As I stand and covet her view. back to top Seen better, seen worse. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From c.a.b.daly at gmail.com Fri Oct 23 16:43:42 2009 From: c.a.b.daly at gmail.com (Catherine Daly) Date: Fri, 23 Oct 2009 13:43:42 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] i hurt amber tamblyn's feelings In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: coming to a college campus near you with her Mom!!! http://apbspeakers.blogspot.com/2009/07/amber-tamblyn-prepares-for-campus-tour.html On Fri, Oct 23, 2009 at 1:19 PM, wrote: > Plenty of Ships ? Amber Tamblyn > > > Long standing > A tribe of the quiet > Carrying in the tide > I see waves I've never seen before > And sounds I've never heard. > Long standing > A nursery of tall, primitive sculptures > Tying the links between their bows > And the primordial waters which keep them afloat. > As they repetitively curtsy in the whirlpool of warm July waters, > I repetitively watch, > A gazer stealing a glance at what the image of God may be like. > I've seen a painting like this, > Capturing what paint can capture, > But forgetting about the distinct elegance in which these ships are riding. > Planting ten toes amongst the billions of grains of sand, > I imagine the journey to be somewhat spectacular > I would be the girl, > A pirate of the unknown fogs that wash out the morning sunrises, > A sailor of imperative winds that shift my ships from here to there. > I would be the girl, > Watching the shore like a distant thread of a smile, > Waiting for the cold-blooded vertebrates to direct me > In whatever way the sea has directed them. > Envious of the closeness between salt and water, > I'm sure I could disappear into the crevice between the sky and sea. > Long standing > I see plenty of ships > Like wise old battle men > I watch them climb the ridges on the tearful eyes of mother earth. > She watches them fade across her deep dark blues > As I stand and covet her view. back to top > > Seen better, seen worse. > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- All best, Catherine Daly c.a.b.daly at gmail.com From jforjames at aol.com Fri Oct 23 16:44:21 2009 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Fri, 23 Oct 2009 16:44:21 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] i hurt amber tamblyn's feelings In-Reply-To: References: <263FDE38-6167-4FB3-B766-B4A2A6B50853@myuw.net><4AE19AAA.7040308@nut-n-but.net><2F60667C-FF2F-457C-BAE5-4D6B75259B07@ripon.edu><30CA3ED510E3BE4C9E3C15ADC8603F69A8DAF4@URANIUM.ripon.college> Message-ID: <8CC2238BB9BACC3-1F74-112BC@webmail-m080.sysops.aol.com> Catherine, Certainly, they are. Saul Williams has his own movie to prove it. Patricia Smith is an all time great (I don't think anyone has surpassed her slam championship run). And now she is successful in selling books and getting reading gigs at college campuses, hither and thither. http://www.wordwoman.ws/itinerary.html I've never felt the slam movement was divided White vs. Others. It always seemed a rather open movement. (Though as Jason suggested it certainly now has it own hierachies, fashions and cliques, I'm sure.) And that's not say Manic D Press isn't 'too white'. I don't know what performance poets they've turned away. I do know that there's a lot DIY publishing going on among performance and slam poets. They perform...so why not sell your own book at full profit at your performance venues? A press is a printer to many of them...not a vehicle for distribution. Bring tote bag of books; bring home fewer than you left with. Performance Poetry predates the Slam movement. Slam is a special case of performance poetry, one might say. It's not all good poetry. But there is a lot a good among the bad. And in that sense I can't say it differs much from any group within Poetry (capital P) or any subgroup. Some performance poetry arose out performance art (Laurie Anderson, Carolee Schneeman, et al). And some arose along with hip-hop (like the Last Poets). Some owes as much to stand-up comedy & story-telling as to any other genre.(Jack McCarthy read last night a little venue in Middletown CT called Buttonwood. He's in that comic story-telling vein, for example.) Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: Catherine Daly Sent: Fri, Oct 23, 2009 3:36 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] i hurt amber tamblyn's feelings actually, given that the Watts Prophets are from here, any perception hat "performance poetry" in Los Angeles is white with one or two xceptions is profoundly incorrect, but unfortunately, among white open mike" poets, this is exactly the reigning opinion -- it is quite self supporting little crowd the sloppy surrealism and pseudo ballads! the sentimental rhyme! the runkalogs! "stage vs. page" as code for rants about parking and buses roken into phrases vs. actual poetry! "page vs. stage" as though it s UC profs writing poetry about vacations in Italy vs. real people ho there are profound divisions by race in local poetry, but the performance poets" are truly bad there is an equally active African American performance poetry ommunity; there are many notable Latino poets who have eadings/students, too, but I don't know if they really consider hemselves performance poets Saul Williams? ef Poetry Jam? aren't these slam poets? -- ll best, atherine Daly .a.b.daly at gmail.com ______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jfq at myuw.net Fri Oct 23 17:02:40 2009 From: jfq at myuw.net (Jason Quackenbush) Date: Fri, 23 Oct 2009 14:02:40 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] i hurt amber tamblyn's feelings In-Reply-To: <8CC2238BB9BACC3-1F74-112BC@webmail-m080.sysops.aol.com> References: <263FDE38-6167-4FB3-B766-B4A2A6B50853@myuw.net><4AE19AAA.7040308@nut-n-but.net><2F60667C-FF2F-457C-BAE5-4D6B75259B07@ripon.edu><30CA3ED510E3BE4C9E3C15ADC8603F69A8DAF4@URANIUM.ripon.college> <8CC2238BB9BACC3-1F74-112BC@webmail-m080.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: God I love Jack McCarthy. He and I read together at an art gallery in Seattle a couple of years ago at a reading series curated by Bruce V. Bracken. Jack is the kind of poet that I go to slams to see, and his book Grace Notes is something I return to frequently. However, my biggest beef with slam isn't the variable quality of the poetry. It has institutionalized a democratic measure of quality that really hampers it's ability to be a consistently interesting form. Jeremy Richards has written extensively on that, for example. But no, the big problem is the fact that Slam in its institutional memory is so apparently unaware of its roots in other forms of poetry. I remember distinctly sitting in a room listening to announcements about upcoming events where Rives (a pretty craptacular stand up comedian masquerading as a poet) got huge applause for being at some show, but Anne Waldman's appearance was greated with the sort of confused silence that seemed to indicate that most of the people in the room, most of them slam poets, had never heard of her. That, to me, is the problem with slam in a nutshell. Also, I think it's sort of annoying that the format of slam prevents people who might be interested in pushing the boundaries of things along the lines of John Giorno or Jackson Mac Low's performance works are forbidden from doing so by the inflexible rules of slam. On Oct 23, 2009, at 1:44 PM, jforjames at aol.com wrote: > > Catherine, > Certainly, they are. Saul Williams has his own movie to prove it. > Patricia Smith is an all time great (I don't think anyone has > surpassed her slam championship run). And now she is successful in > selling books and getting reading gigs at college campuses, hither > and thither. > http://www.wordwoman.ws/itinerary.html > > I've never felt the slam movement was divided White vs. Others. It > always seemed a rather open movement. (Though as Jason suggested it > certainly now has it own hierachies, fashions and cliques, I'm > sure.) And that's not say Manic D Press isn't 'too white'. I don't > know what performance poets they've turned away. I do know that > there's a lot DIY publishing going on among performance and slam > poets. They perform...so why not sell your own book at full profit > at your performance venues? A press is a printer to many of > them...not a vehicle for distribution. Bring tote bag of books; > bring home fewer than you left with. > > Performance Poetry predates the Slam movement. Slam is a special > case of performance poetry, one might say. It's not all good poetry. > But there is a lot a good among the bad. And in that sense I can't > say it differs much from any group within Poetry (capital P) or any > subgroup. > > Some performance poetry arose out performance art (Laurie Anderson, > Carolee Schneeman, et al). And some arose along with hip-hop (like > the Last Poets). Some owes as much to stand-up comedy & story- > telling as to any other genre.(Jack McCarthy read last night a > little venue in Middletown CT called Buttonwood. He's in that comic > story-telling vein, for example.) > > Finnegan > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Catherine Daly > Sent: Fri, Oct 23, 2009 3:36 pm > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] i hurt amber tamblyn's feelings > > > > actually, given that the Watts Prophets are from here, any perception > hat "performance poetry" in Los Angeles is white with one or two > xceptions is profoundly incorrect, but unfortunately, among white > open mike" poets, this is exactly the reigning opinion -- it is quite > self supporting little crowd > the sloppy surrealism and pseudo ballads! the sentimental rhyme! the > runkalogs! "stage vs. page" as code for rants about parking and buses > roken into phrases vs. actual poetry! "page vs. stage" as though it > s UC profs writing poetry about vacations in Italy vs. real people > ho there are profound divisions by race in local poetry, but the > performance poets" are truly bad > there is an equally active African American performance poetry > ommunity; there are many notable Latino poets who have > eadings/students, too, but I don't know if they really consider > hemselves performance poets > Saul Williams? > ef Poetry Jam? > aren't these slam poets? > -- > ll best, > atherine Daly > .a.b.daly at gmail.com > ______________________________________________ > ew-Poetry mailing list > ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From amyhappens at yahoo.com Fri Oct 23 17:03:44 2009 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king) Date: Fri, 23 Oct 2009 14:03:44 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] i hurt amber tamblyn's feelings In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <449337.43516.qm@web83303.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Geez - I had no idea about the Sage Francis connex! ?My first intro to him was this dance vid --?http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8zDhl0nmZXU&feature=player_profilepage -- and then I learned of his freestyle stuff, which is when I lost interest, pretty immediate. ?Not even worth mentioning except to say, I know of him and how weird that they're connected. ?One would imagine his "street cred" would be thrown into question by the relationship... As for Buffy, a good one to fill the empty hours with. ? --- On Fri, 10/23/09, Jason Quackenbush ?wrote: Oh i find the whole thing terribly amusing. and really, there's no way that the editors of the magazine should have known that that Jason Quackenbush is me. it's a very minor article about a very minor celebrity, after all, it's not like they had a team of fact checkers on the story. that said, for folks who are interested, here's the story of how I came to be Amber Tamblyn's nemesis: http://www.wetasphalt.com/?q=content/oh-amber -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From c.a.b.daly at gmail.com Fri Oct 23 17:29:19 2009 From: c.a.b.daly at gmail.com (Catherine Daly) Date: Fri, 23 Oct 2009 14:29:19 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] i hurt amber tamblyn's feelings In-Reply-To: <8CC2238BB9BACC3-1F74-112BC@webmail-m080.sysops.aol.com> References: <263FDE38-6167-4FB3-B766-B4A2A6B50853@myuw.net> <4AE19AAA.7040308@nut-n-but.net> <2F60667C-FF2F-457C-BAE5-4D6B75259B07@ripon.edu> <30CA3ED510E3BE4C9E3C15ADC8603F69A8DAF4@URANIUM.ripon.college> <8CC2238BB9BACC3-1F74-112BC@webmail-m080.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: you misread me; I wasn't asking if any African Americans were slam poets; I was telling you that these really bad poets white poets are the usual suspects -- to themselves -- in Orange County. -- All best, Catherine Daly c.a.b.daly at gmail.com From jfq at myuw.net Fri Oct 23 17:36:49 2009 From: jfq at myuw.net (Jason Quackenbush) Date: Fri, 23 Oct 2009 14:36:49 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] i hurt amber tamblyn's feelings In-Reply-To: <449337.43516.qm@web83303.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: <449337.43516.qm@web83303.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <57F82F12-790A-45DE-8EB2-E2D507BC5D30@myuw.net> Well, i think the vein of hip hop that he works in is pretty rife with star fuckers, so I don't think dating the hot celebrity actress would bother his fans much. On Oct 23, 2009, at 2:03 PM, amy king wrote: > Geez - I had no idea about the Sage Francis connex! My first intro > to him was this dance vid -- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8zDhl0nmZXU&feature=player_profilepage > -- and then I learned of his freestyle stuff, which is when I lost > interest, pretty immediate. Not even worth mentioning except to > say, I know of him and how weird that they're connected. One would > imagine his "street cred" would be thrown into question by the > relationship... > As for Buffy, a good one to fill the empty hours with. > > > --- On Fri, 10/23/09, Jason Quackenbush wrote: > > Oh i find the whole thing terribly amusing. and really, there's no > way that the editors of the magazine should have known that that > Jason Quackenbush is me. it's a very minor article about a very > minor celebrity, after all, it's not like they had a team of fact > checkers on the story. > > that said, for folks who are interested, here's the story of how I > came to be Amber Tamblyn's nemesis: > http://www.wetasphalt.com/?q=content/oh-amber > > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Fri Oct 23 18:10:38 2009 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2009 00:10:38 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Spidertangle Message-ID: <4b65c2d70910231510i1091835eo2e1a2ac15ee4109f@mail.gmail.com> I am also in the good company of Bob Grumman, Catherine Daly, Geof Huth, and several more thanks to Crag Hill: http://galleryofwriting.org/writing/1371090 link to the collection: http://galleryofwriting.org/galleries/87707 Thanks for visiting, Anny -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Fri Oct 23 19:16:29 2009 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Fri, 23 Oct 2009 19:16:29 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] i hurt amber tamblyn's feelings In-Reply-To: References: <263FDE38-6167-4FB3-B766-B4A2A6B50853@myuw.net><4AE19AAA.7040308@nut-n-but.net><2F60667C-FF2F-457C-BAE5-4D6B75259B07@ripon.edu><30CA3ED510E3BE4C9E3C15ADC8603F69A8DAF4@URANIUM.ripon.college><8CC2238BB9BACC3-1F74-112BC@webmail-m080.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <8CC224DFC107566-3B44-6B32@webmail-d056.sysops.aol.com> Jason, But slam wouldn't be slam without its format of condensed spoken word works in competition to win over judges/audience. Slam poets may be the ultimate formalists. You have 3 mins, and by the things that come out or your mouth, and the way you hold your body, you've got to put the judges/audience in the palm or your hand. Of course in that way it's much like much of popular music and like American Idol. (Kelly Clarkson rocks.) Performance poetry as a larger social phenomenon is graded differently. Performance poetry is graded critically by those that pay attention (like Jeremy Richards). It's a more diffuse but no less democratic process of judgement. Wherein, by taste and training, things are weighed and sifted, and some things rise as other fall, as it's been always and forever. Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: Jason Quackenbush Sent: Fri, Oct 23, 2009 5:02 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] i hurt amber tamblyn's feelings God I love Jack McCarthy. He and I read together at an art gallery in Seattle a couple of years ago at a reading series curated by Bruce V. Bracken. Jack is the kind of poet that I go to slams to see, and his book Grace Notes is something I return to frequently. However, my biggest beef with slam isn't the variable quality of the poetry. It has institutionalized a democratic measure of quality that really hampers it's ability to be a consistently interesting form. Jeremy Richards has written extensively on that, for example. But no, the big problem is the fact that Slam in its institutional memory is so apparently unaware of its roots in other forms of poetry. I remember distinctly sitting in a room listening to announcements about upcoming events where Rives (a pretty craptacular stand up comedian masquerading as a poet) got huge applause for being at some show, but Anne Waldman's appearance was greated with the sort of confused silence that seemed to indicate that most of the people in the room, most of them slam poets, had never heard of her. That, to me, is the problem with slam in a nutshell. Also, I think it's sort of annoying that the format of slam prevents people who might be interested in pushing the boundaries of things along the lines of John Giorno or Jackson Mac Low's performance works are forbidden from doing so by the inflexible rules of slam. On Oct 23, 2009, at 1:44 PM, jforjames at aol.com wrote: > > Catherine, > Certainly, they are. Saul Williams has his own movie to prove it. > Patricia Smith is an all time great (I don't think anyone has > surpassed her slam championship run). And now she is successful in > selling books and getting reading gigs at college campuses, hither > and thither. > http://www.wordwoman.ws/itinerary.html > > I've never felt the slam movement was divided White vs. Others. It > always seemed a rather open movement. (Though as Jason suggested it > certainly now has it own hierachies, fashions and cliques, I'm > sure.) And that's not say Manic D Press isn't 'too white'. I don't > know what performance poets they've turned away. I do know that > there's a lot DIY publishing going on among performance and slam > poets. They perform...so why not sell your own book at full profit > at your performance venues? A press is a printer to many of > them...not a vehicle for distribution. Bring tote bag of books; > bring home fewer than you left with. > > Performance Poetry predates the Slam movement. Slam is a special > case of performance poetry, one might say. It's not all good poetry. > But there is a lot a good among the bad. And in that sense I can't > say it differs much from any group within Poetry (capital P) or any > subgroup. > > Some performance poetry arose out performance art (Laurie Anderson, > Carolee Schneeman, et al). And some arose along with hip-hop (like > the Last Poets). Some owes as much to stand-up comedy & story-> telling as to any other genre.(Jack McCarthy read last night a > little venue in Middletown CT called Buttonwood. He's in that comic > story-telling vein, for example.) > > Finnegan > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Catherine Daly > Sent: Fri, Oct 23, 2009 3:36 pm > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] i hurt amber tamblyn's feelings > > > > actually, given that the Watts Prophets are from here, any perception > hat "performance poetry" in Los Angeles is white with one or two > xceptions is profoundly incorrect, but unfortunately, among white > open mike" poets, this is exactly the reigning opinion -- it is quite > self supporting little crowd > the sloppy surrealism and pseudo ballads! the sentimental rhyme! the > runkalogs! "stage vs. page" as code for rants about parking and buses > roken into phrases vs. actual poetry! "page vs. stage" as though it > s UC profs writing poetry about vacations in Italy vs. real people > ho there are profound divisions by race in local poetry, but the > performance poets" are truly bad > there is an equally active African American performance poetry > ommunity; there are many notable Latino poets who have > eadings/students, too, but I don't know if they really consider > hemselves performance poets > Saul Williams? > ef Poetry Jam? > aren't these slam poets? > --> ll best, > atherine Daly > .a.b.daly at gmail.com > ______________________________________________ > ew-Poetry mailing list > ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Fri Oct 23 19:17:02 2009 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Fri, 23 Oct 2009 19:17:02 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] i hurt amber tamblyn's feelings In-Reply-To: References: <263FDE38-6167-4FB3-B766-B4A2A6B50853@myuw.net><4AE19AAA.7040308@nut-n-but.net><2F60667C-FF2F-457C-BAE5-4D6B75259B07@ripon.edu><30CA3ED510E3BE4C9E3C15ADC8603F69A8DAF4@URANIUM.ripon.college><8CC2238BB9BACC3-1F74-112BC@webmail-m080.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <8CC224E0FE5D29B-3B44-6B49@webmail-d056.sysops.aol.com> -----Original Message----- From: Catherine Daly Sent: Fri, Oct 23, 2009 5:29 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] i hurt amber tamblyn's feelings you misread me; I wasn't asking if any African Americans were slam oets; I was telling you that these really bad poets white poets are he usual suspects -- to themselves -- in Orange County. -- ll best, atherine Daly .a.b.daly at gmail.com ______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jfq at myuw.net Fri Oct 23 19:32:58 2009 From: jfq at myuw.net (Jason Quackenbush) Date: Fri, 23 Oct 2009 16:32:58 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] i hurt amber tamblyn's feelings In-Reply-To: <8CC224DFC107566-3B44-6B32@webmail-d056.sysops.aol.com> References: <263FDE38-6167-4FB3-B766-B4A2A6B50853@myuw.net><4AE19AAA.7040308@nut-n-but.net><2F60667C-FF2F-457C-BAE5-4D6B75259B07@ripon.edu><30CA3ED510E3BE4C9E3C15ADC8603F69A8DAF4@URANIUM.ripon.college><8CC2238BB9BACC3-1F74-112BC@webmail-m080.sysops.aol.com> <8CC224DFC107566-3B44-6B32@webmail-d056.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: Oh I agree. And I don't think that the process of slam is necessarily a problem in theory. What is problematic is the specific implementation which I think is overly populist, again like American Idol. My beef with slam, and American Idol for that matters, is that the implementation tends to marginalize non-conformity and over emphasize the wrong things. It's really more competitive oratory than performance poetry in its current implementation. That crossover is even more apparent when you consider the number of slam poets who make a little extra money by writing pieces for forensics competitions. Jeremy and I were talking at one point about a way that the form could remain essentially the same, but that a little more expertise could be injected into the proceedings. Because one of the real problems I have with slam is that in particular political ideas that vary from the rooms consensus are often excluded from participation, and that I have a problem with. Democracy is great but there's a reason that republican systems of government institute controls to protect minorities from the tyrrany of the majority. Slam is missing that element, and at root that means its values as expressed and as implemented are in contradiction with eachother. That for me undermines the validity of the enterprise, so while I think that good things can and do happen within it, the form itself is problematic. that having been said, the thing that bothers me the most about slam is the rather generic form that it tends to take and the lack of risk taking among its leading participants. granted there are exceptions, Jeremy Richards is one, Morris Stegosaurus is another, and I think Buddy Wakefield can be seen to be being quite risky at times. but by and large there's a very narrow corridor that slam has to fit through in order to be successful and I blame that less on the form itself and more on the amnesia of a group that is much too insular w/r/t things going on outside its borders.\ On Oct 23, 2009, at 4:16 PM, jforjames at aol.com wrote: > > Jason, > But slam wouldn't be slam without its format of condensed spoken > word works in competition to win over judges/audience. Slam poets > may be the ultimate formalists. You have 3 mins, and by the things > that come out or your mouth, and the way you hold your body, you've > got to put the judges/audience in the palm or your hand. Of course > in that way it's much like much of popular music and like American > Idol. (Kelly Clarkson rocks.) > > Performance poetry as a larger social phenomenon is graded > differently. Performance poetry is graded critically by those that > pay attention (like Jeremy Richards). It's a more diffuse but no > less democratic process of judgement. Wherein, by taste and > training, things are weighed and sifted, and some things rise as > other fall, as it's been always and forever. > Finnegan > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Jason Quackenbush > Sent: Fri, Oct 23, 2009 5:02 pm > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] i hurt amber tamblyn's feelings > > > God I love Jack McCarthy. He and I read together at an art gallery > in Seattle a couple of years ago at a reading series curated by > Bruce V. Bracken. Jack is the kind of poet that I go to slams to > see, and his book Grace Notes is something I return to frequently. > > However, my biggest beef with slam isn't the variable quality of the > poetry. It has institutionalized a democratic measure of quality > that really hampers it's ability to be a consistently interesting > form. Jeremy Richards has written extensively on that, for example. > But no, the big problem is the fact that Slam in its institutional > memory is so apparently unaware of its roots in other forms of > poetry. I remember distinctly sitting in a room listening to > announcements about upcoming events where Rives (a pretty > craptacular stand up comedian masquerading as a poet) got huge > applause for being at some show, but Anne Waldman's appearance was > greated with the sort of confused silence that seemed to indicate > that most of the people in the room, most of them slam poets, had > never heard of her. That, to me, is the problem with slam in a > nutshell. > > Also, I think it's sort of annoying that the format of slam prevents > people who might be interested in pushing the boundaries of things > along the lines of John Giorno or Jackson Mac Low's performance > works are forbidden from doing so by the inflexible rules of slam. > > On Oct 23, 2009, at 1:44 PM, jforjames at aol.com wrote: > >> >> Catherine, >> Certainly, they are. Saul Williams has his own movie to prove it. > >> Patricia Smith is an all time great (I don't think anyone has > >> surpassed her slam championship run). And now she is successful in >> > selling books and getting reading gigs at college campuses, >> hither > and thither. >> http://www.wordwoman.ws/itinerary.html >> >> I've never felt the slam movement was divided White vs. Others. It >> > always seemed a rather open movement. (Though as Jason suggested >> it > certainly now has it own hierachies, fashions and cliques, I'm >> > sure.) And that's not say Manic D Press isn't 'too white'. I >> don't > know what performance poets they've turned away. I do know >> that > there's a lot DIY publishing going on among performance and >> slam > poets. They perform...so why not sell your own book at full >> profit > at your performance venues? A press is a printer to many >> of > them...not a vehicle for distribution. Bring tote bag of >> books; > bring home fewer than you left with. >> >> Performance Poetry predates the Slam movement. Slam is a special > >> case of performance poetry, one might say. It's not all good >> poetry. > But there is a lot a good among the bad. And in that >> sense I can't > say it differs much from any group within Poetry >> (capital P) or any > subgroup. >> >> Some performance poetry arose out performance art (Laurie Anderson, >> > Carolee Schneeman, et al). And some arose along with hip-hop >> (like > the Last Poets). Some owes as much to stand-up comedy & >> story-> telling as to any other genre.(Jack McCarthy read last >> night a > little venue in Middletown CT called Buttonwood. He's in >> that comic > story-telling vein, for example.) >> >> Finnegan >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Catherine Daly >> Sent: Fri, Oct 23, 2009 3:36 pm >> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] i hurt amber tamblyn's feelings >> >> >> >> actually, given that the Watts Prophets are from here, any perception >> hat "performance poetry" in Los Angeles is white with one or two >> xceptions is profoundly incorrect, but unfortunately, among white >> open mike" poets, this is exactly the reigning opinion -- it is quite >> self supporting little crowd >> the sloppy surrealism and pseudo ballads! the sentimental rhyme! the >> runkalogs! "stage vs. page" as code for rants about parking and buses >> roken into phrases vs. actual poetry! "page vs. stage" as though it >> s UC profs writing poetry about vacations in Italy vs. real people >> ho there are profound divisions by race in local poetry, but the >> performance poets" are truly bad >> there is an equally active African American performance poetry >> ommunity; there are many notable Latino poets who have >> eadings/students, too, but I don't know if they really consider >> hemselves performance poets >> Saul Williams? >> ef Poetry Jam? >> aren't these slam poets? >> --> ll best, >> atherine Daly >> .a.b.daly at gmail.com >> ______________________________________________ >> ew-Poetry mailing list >> ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Fri Oct 23 20:38:13 2009 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Fri, 23 Oct 2009 19:38:13 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Spidertangle In-Reply-To: <4b65c2d70910231510i1091835eo2e1a2ac15ee4109f@mail.gmail.com> References: <4b65c2d70910231510i1091835eo2e1a2ac15ee4109f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4AE24C75.90204@nut-n-but.net> Anny Ballardini wrote: > I am also in the good company of Bob Grumman, Catherine Daly, Geof > Huth, and several more thanks to Crag Hill: > http://galleryofwriting.org/writing/1371090 > > link to the collection: > http://galleryofwriting.org/galleries/87707 > > Thanks for visiting, Anny Gah! How could Crag do this to me???? --Mr. G. From jforjames at aol.com Fri Oct 23 20:06:28 2009 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Fri, 23 Oct 2009 20:06:28 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] i hurt amber tamblyn's feelings In-Reply-To: <8CC224E0FE5D29B-3B44-6B49@webmail-d056.sysops.aol.com> References: <263FDE38-6167-4FB3-B766-B4A2A6B50853@myuw.net><4AE19AAA.7040308@nut-n-but.net><2F60667C-FF2F-457C-BAE5-4D6B75259B07@ripon.edu><30CA3ED510E3BE4C9E3C15ADC8603F69A8DAF4@URANIUM.ripon.college><8CC2238BB9BACC3-1F74-112BC@webmail-m080.sysops.aol.com> <8CC224E0FE5D29B-3B44-6B49@webmail-d056.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <8CC2254F811B60A-3B44-7364@webmail-d056.sysops.aol.com> (Pardon the blank email...I do have a thought.) I'd have to check out few venues to know, but my guess is that LA area slam/performance poets (of all stripe and hue) are as bad/ok/good/great as those in SF, NYC, Boston, Chicago, New Orleans, London, Buenos Aires... And slam poets (anywhere), beyond one's personal taste/training, are not any worse than other poet/poetry grouping one could name. Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: jforjames at aol.com To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Fri, Oct 23, 2009 7:17 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] i hurt amber tamblyn's feelings -----Original Message----- From: Catherine Daly Sent: Fri, Oct 23, 2009 5:29 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] i hurt amber tamblyn's feelings you misread me; I wasn't asking if any African Americans were slam oets; I was telling you that these really bad poets white poets are he usual suspects -- to themselves -- in Orange County. -- ll best, atherine Daly .a.b.daly at gmail.com ______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jfq at myuw.net Fri Oct 23 20:08:14 2009 From: jfq at myuw.net (Jason Quackenbush) Date: Fri, 23 Oct 2009 17:08:14 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] i hurt amber tamblyn's feelings In-Reply-To: <8CC2254F811B60A-3B44-7364@webmail-d056.sysops.aol.com> References: <263FDE38-6167-4FB3-B766-B4A2A6B50853@myuw.net><4AE19AAA.7040308@nut-n-but.net><2F60667C-FF2F-457C-BAE5-4D6B75259B07@ripon.edu><30CA3ED510E3BE4C9E3C15ADC8603F69A8DAF4@URANIUM.ripon.college><8CC2238BB9BACC3-1F74-112BC@webmail-m080.sysops.aol.com> <8CC224E0FE5D29B-3B44-6B49@webmail-d056.sysops.aol.com> <8CC2254F811B60A-3B44-7364@webmail-d056.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <091D9B71-35DA-4736-97DA-99127A9B6567@myuw.net> and they're considerably better than the new formalists... On Oct 23, 2009, at 5:06 PM, jforjames at aol.com wrote: > > (Pardon the blank email...I do have a thought.) > > I'd have to check out few venues to know, but my guess is that LA > area slam/performance poets (of all stripe and hue) are as bad/ok/ > good/great as those in SF, NYC, Boston, Chicago, New Orleans, > London, Buenos Aires... > > And slam poets (anywhere), beyond one's personal taste/training, are > not any worse than other poet/poetry grouping one could name. > Finnegan > > -----Original Message----- > From: jforjames at aol.com > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Sent: Fri, Oct 23, 2009 7:17 pm > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] i hurt amber tamblyn's feelings > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Catherine Daly > Sent: Fri, Oct 23, 2009 5:29 pm > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] i hurt amber tamblyn's feelings > > > > you misread me; I wasn't asking if any African Americans were slam > oets; I was telling you that these really bad poets white poets are > he usual suspects -- to themselves -- in Orange County. > -- > ll best, > atherine Daly > .a.b.daly at gmail.com > ______________________________________________ > ew-Poetry mailing list > ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > _______________________________________________ > ew-Poetry mailing list > ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From jforjames at aol.com Fri Oct 23 20:19:49 2009 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Fri, 23 Oct 2009 20:19:49 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] i hurt amber tamblyn's feelings In-Reply-To: References: <263FDE38-6167-4FB3-B766-B4A2A6B50853@myuw.net><4AE19AAA.7040308@nut-n-but.net><2F60667C-FF2F-457C-BAE5-4D6B75259B07@ripon.edu><30CA3ED510E3BE4C9E3C15ADC8603F69A8DAF4@URANIUM.ripon.college><8CC2238BB9BACC3-1F74-112BC@webmail-m080.sysops.aol.com><8CC224DFC107566-3B44-6B32@webmail-d056.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <8CC2256D51D0D72-3B44-753A@webmail-d056.sysops.aol.com> I anxious to visit that 'art space' where everyone is risk taking and doing great things. I think it's a fair criticism of slam but it's critically an imaginary space. One could consider all of 'web poetry' as another 'art space' and things you've said re slam would probably get nods agreement from one and all. Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: Jason Quackenbush Sent: Fri, Oct 23, 2009 7:32 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] i hurt amber tamblyn's feelings Oh I agree. And I don't think that the process of slam is necessarily a problem in theory. What is problematic is the specific implementation which I think is overly populist, again like American Idol. My beef with slam, and American Idol for that matters, is that the implementation tends to marginalize non-conformity and over emphasize the wrong things. It's really more competitive oratory than performance poetry in its current implementation. That crossover is even more apparent when you consider the number of slam poets who make a little extra money by writing pieces for forensics competitions. Jeremy and I were talking at one point about a way that the form could remain essentially the same, but that a little more expertise could be injected into the proceedings. Because one of the real problems I have with slam is that in particular political ideas that vary from the rooms consensus are often excluded from participation, and that I have a problem with. Democracy is great but there's a reason that republican systems of government institute controls to protect minorities from the tyrrany of the majority. Slam is missing that element, and at root that means its values as expressed and as implemented are in contradiction with eachother. That for me undermines the validity of the enterprise, so while I think that good things can and do happen within it, the form itself is problematic. that having been said, the thing that bothers me the most about slam is the rather generic form that it tends to take and the lack of risk taking among its leading participants. granted there are exceptions, Jeremy Richards is one, Morris Stegosaurus is another, and I think Buddy Wakefield can be seen to be being quite risky at times. but by and large there's a very narrow corridor that slam has to fit through in order to be successful and I blame that less on the form itself and more on the amnesia of a group that is much too insular w/r/t things going on outside its borders.\ On Oct 23, 2009, at 4:16 PM, jforjames at aol.com wrote: > > Jason, > But slam wouldn't be slam without its format of condensed spoken > word works in competition to win over judges/audience. Slam poets > may be the ultimate formalists. You have 3 mins, and by the things > that come out or your mouth, and the way you hold your body, you've > got to put the judges/audience in the palm or your hand. Of course > in that way it's much like much of popular music and like American > Idol. (Kelly Clarkson rocks.) > > Performance poetry as a larger social phenomenon is graded > differently. Performance poetry is graded critically by those that > pay attention (like Jeremy Richards). It's a more diffuse but no > less democratic process of judgement. Wherein, by taste and > training, things are weighed and sifted, and some things rise as > other fall, as it's been always and forever. > Finnegan > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Jason Quackenbush > Sent: Fri, Oct 23, 2009 5:02 pm > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] i hurt amber tamblyn's feelings > > > God I love Jack McCarthy. He and I read together at an art gallery > in Seattle a couple of years ago at a reading series curated by > Bruce V. Bracken. Jack is the kind of poet that I go to slams to > see, and his book Grace Notes is something I return to frequently. > > However, my biggest beef with slam isn't the variable quality of the > poetry. It has institutionalized a democratic measure of quality > that really hampers it's ability to be a consistently interesting > form. Jeremy Richards has written extensively on that, for example. > But no, the big problem is the fact that Slam in its institutional > memory is so apparently unaware of its roots in other forms of > poetry. I remember distinctly sitting in a room listening to > announcements about upcoming events where Rives (a pretty > craptacular stand up comedian masquerading as a poet) got huge > applause for being at some show, but Anne Waldman's appearance was > greated with the sort of confused silence that seemed to indicate > that most of the people in the room, most of them slam poets, had > never heard of her. That, to me, is the problem with slam in a > nutshell. > > Also, I think it's sort of annoying that the format of slam prevents > people who might be interested in pushing the boundaries of things > along the lines of John Giorno or Jackson Mac Low's performance > works are forbidden from doing so by the inflexible rules of slam. > > On Oct 23, 2009, at 1:44 PM, jforjames at aol.com wrote: > >> >> Catherine, >> Certainly, they are. Saul Williams has his own movie to prove it. > >> Patricia Smith is an all time great (I don't think anyone has > >> surpassed her slam championship run). And now she is successful in >> > selling books and getting reading gigs at college campuses, >> hither > and thither. >> http://www.wordwoman.ws/itinerary.html >> >> I've never felt the slam movement was divided White vs. Others. It >> > always seemed a rather open movement. (Though as Jason suggested >> it > certainly now has it own hierachies, fashions and cliques, I'm >> > sure.) And that's not say Manic D Press isn't 'too white'. I >> don't > know what performance poets they've turned away. I do know >> that > there's a lot DIY publishing going on among performance and >> slam > poets. They perform...so why not sell your own book at full >> profit > at your performance venues? A press is a printer to many >> of > them...not a vehicle for distribution. Bring tote bag of >> books; > bring home fewer than you left with. >> >> Performance Poetry predates the Slam movement. Slam is a special > >> case of performance poetry, one might say. It's not all good >> poetry. > But there is a lot a good among the bad. And in that >> sense I can't > say it differs much from any group within Poetry >> (capital P) or any > subgroup. >> >> Some performance poetry arose out performance art (Laurie Anderson, >> > Carolee Schneeman, et al). And some arose along with hip-hop >> (like > the Last Poets). Some owes as much to stand-up comedy & >> story-> telling as to any other genre.(Jack McCarthy read last >> night a > little venue in Middletown CT called Buttonwood. He's in >> that comic > story-telling vein, for example.) >> >> Finnegan >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Catherine Daly >> Sent: Fri, Oct 23, 2009 3:36 pm >> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] i hurt amber tamblyn's feelings >> >> >> >> actually, given that the Watts Prophets are from here, any perception >> hat "performance poetry" in Los Angeles is white with one or two >> xceptions is profoundly incorrect, but unfortunately, among white >> open mike" poets, this is exactly the reigning opinion -- it is quite >> self supporting little crowd >> the sloppy surrealism and pseudo ballads! the sentimental rhyme! the >> runkalogs! "stage vs. page" as code for rants about parking and buses >> roken into phrases vs. actual poetry! "page vs. stage" as though it >> s UC profs writing poetry about vacations in Italy vs. real people >> ho there are profound divisions by race in local poetry, but the >> performance poets" are truly bad >> there is an equally active African American performance poetry >> ommunity; there are many notable Latino poets who have >> eadings/students, too, but I don't know if they really consider >> hemselves performance poets >> Saul Williams? >> ef Poetry Jam? >> aren't these slam poets? >> --> ll best, >> atherine Daly >> .a.b.daly at gmail.com >> ______________________________________________ >> ew-Poetry mailing list >> ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Fri Oct 23 20:43:22 2009 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Fri, 23 Oct 2009 20:43:22 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] i hurt amber tamblyn's feelings In-Reply-To: References: <263FDE38-6167-4FB3-B766-B4A2A6B50853@myuw.net><4AE19AAA.7040308@nut-n-but.net><2F60667C-FF2F-457C-BAE5-4D6B75259B07@ripon.edu><30CA3ED510E3BE4C9E3C15ADC8603F69A8DAF4@URANIUM.ripon.college><8CC2238BB9BACC3-1F74-112BC@webmail-m080.sysops.aol.com><8CC224DFC107566-3B44-6B32@webmail-d056.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <8CC225A1F7B64B3-3B44-78B6@webmail-d056.sysops.aol.com> I think both Bukowski and Brautigan were real poets (in both case their fame was a quixotic thing and probably didn't do anything but help ruin them in various ways). But Jason brought up AT, and that brought forth the poetry of Jewel, which could lead us to all kinds of odd or popular poetry that happens to be issued in an initial print run over 1000, like the poems of Pope Paul II, or Jimmy Stewarts poetry, or the tragic case of Matty Stephanik (sp?). So question is, do these 'special cases' of what we the informed poetry aficionados might agree is inferior poetry become popular due to extra-art factors, harm at all the art of poetry as we know it. Do they deaden the audience to good poetry? Do they skew sensibility so much that when the next 'Howl' comes along people will just miss it? Do they siphon off the attention that might make a difference in the career of one good poet? I think on balance, not, it's all neutral...almost no affect on the art of poetry. Finnegan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jfq at myuw.net Fri Oct 23 20:51:53 2009 From: jfq at myuw.net (Jason Quackenbush) Date: Fri, 23 Oct 2009 17:51:53 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] i hurt amber tamblyn's feelings In-Reply-To: <8CC225A1F7B64B3-3B44-78B6@webmail-d056.sysops.aol.com> References: <263FDE38-6167-4FB3-B766-B4A2A6B50853@myuw.net><4AE19AAA.7040308@nut-n-but.net><2F60667C-FF2F-457C-BAE5-4D6B75259B07@ripon.edu><30CA3ED510E3BE4C9E3C15ADC8603F69A8DAF4@URANIUM.ripon.college><8CC2238BB9BACC3-1F74-112BC@webmail-m080.sysops.aol.com><8CC224DFC107566-3B44-6B32@webmail-d056.sysops.aol.com> <8CC225A1F7B64B3-3B44-78B6@webmail-d056.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <4A704277-15AC-43D1-AA1A-F8A8648F42FA@myuw.net> I think it does have some impact. After all, when a young man or woman walks into a bookstore for the first time thinking they want to read some poetry, chances are that what they are going to see is Mattie Stepanek's Heart Songs, Jewel's A Night Without Armor, or any other of a number of bad books that got famous for extra art factors, and when they read this bad poetry, it can be, and I think it is, a dampener on their interest in poetry. Much the same way that I think high schools do a disservice by focussing on poetry written in archaic language when they do poetry units, leaving most people's sole exposure to poetry as this lame, hard to understand nonsense. which, I think, is probably the most laudable aspect of slame poetry, and poets like Bukowski and Brautigan, and to a certain extent Sylvia Plath and others like them. AT least they reach out to kids and get them interested in the real possibilities of poetry. then again, it's a shame that not every teenager in american gets handed a copy of lunch poems and the tennis court oath on their first day of freshman English. On Oct 23, 2009, at 5:43 PM, jforjames at aol.com wrote: > > I think both Bukowski and Brautigan were real poets (in both case > their fame was a quixotic thing and probably didn't do anything but > help ruin them in various ways). > But Jason brought up AT, and that brought forth the poetry of Jewel, > which could lead us to all kinds of odd or popular poetry that > happens to be issued in an initial print run over 1000, like the > poems of Pope Paul II, or Jimmy Stewarts poetry, or the tragic case > of Matty Stephanik (sp?). So question is, do these 'special cases' > of what we the informed poetry aficionados might agree is inferior > poetry become popular due to extra-art factors, harm at all the art > of poetry as we know it. Do they deaden the audience to good poetry? > Do they skew sensibility so much that when the next 'Howl' comes > along people will just miss it? Do they siphon off the attention > that might make a difference in the career of one good poet? I think > on balance, not, it's all neutral...almost no affect on the art of > poetry. > > Finnegan > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From c.a.b.daly at gmail.com Fri Oct 23 21:10:16 2009 From: c.a.b.daly at gmail.com (Catherine Daly) Date: Fri, 23 Oct 2009 18:10:16 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] i hurt amber tamblyn's feelings In-Reply-To: <8CC2254F811B60A-3B44-7364@webmail-d056.sysops.aol.com> References: <263FDE38-6167-4FB3-B766-B4A2A6B50853@myuw.net> <2F60667C-FF2F-457C-BAE5-4D6B75259B07@ripon.edu> <30CA3ED510E3BE4C9E3C15ADC8603F69A8DAF4@URANIUM.ripon.college> <8CC2238BB9BACC3-1F74-112BC@webmail-m080.sysops.aol.com> <8CC224E0FE5D29B-3B44-6B49@webmail-d056.sysops.aol.com> <8CC2254F811B60A-3B44-7364@webmail-d056.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: Well, locally, the best IMO is/was Brendan Constantine, who now has an MFA and a book out. He has a hilarious constraint based poem called Cheeses of Nazareth. Rick Lupert (who created the excellent poetrysuperhghway.com) and Brendan went through an interesting period influenced by the New York School. I want to say these are mostly "open mike" poets who slam occasionally. Bucky Sinister, Steve Abee, Pleasant Gehman, Jeff McDaniel all read at an early Lollapalooza. So did Ellyn Maybe, who was published by 2.13.61, extraordinary performance poet Henry Rollins' now-defunct press which also published some of the earlier generation LA punk poets like Lydia Lunch and Exene Cervenka (though not her husband John Doe or the members of Sonic Youth who've published poetry: Thurston Moore, Lee Renaldo... Mike Watt of the Minutemen also writes poetry, as does his friend Richard Hell / Myers. I would argue that the manic d crowd is following those poets, though Steve Abee (not on manic d), like McDaniel, is quite good, and got his MFA mostly to get the salary bump in the public middle schools where he teaches. There's an earlier poet whose name escapes me this second but I've been thinking of this afternoon. Themes? Punk rock, or its influence, lily white. Ellyn seems to have been left out because she is not physically attractive? I might add that like Black Sparrow, 2.13.61 was a press distributed so widely that in, oh, a walden books in a mall somewhere obscure, like my hometown in central Illinois, you'd run across Wanda Coleman, Buk, and guess what? Henry Rollins. Later, Ellyn Maybe. But, when I moved here from NY, and knowing people like Daphne Gottlieb who have come out of SF, I can promise you: nope, pretty low quality at the open mikes in town. Caveat: I have not been to da poetry lounge, and while everyone reads in Leimert Park, the local African American poets also read there. Some of the people Jeff McDaniel took under his wing during the BRIEF time he lived here / coached a slam team were pretty decent in the grabby surrealism vein. The standard at the Ugly Mug (near Chapman) used to be that if a piece didn't completely reveal itself and all of its meaning in a single performance, it was too complex for "stage." Ditto, if it contained a frame of reference other than direct narration, didn't have some repetition or refrain. A group of poets where it is key to learn how to stage cry at parts of your poems, especially about dead grandmothers; also more advanced local slam poems would be "lies to tell the truth" -- I remember one about a sexually abused first-person, female "I" who took a shotgun to her abuser -- and ballads about vietnam with twenty nearly-identical verses. Take a gander at the Cobalt Poets listserv; Rick runs a readng series at the Cobalt Cafe. Hey, I know all these people, even got drafted into Valley Contemporary Poets. Look at the orange country poetry fest roster. Look at everyone on nextmag and poeticdversity. A person, a local poet I care for very much, once told me, "look, it is about hanging out a couple nights a week with the same friends, not about poetry or performance -- don't you think I know the difference? I used to be a serious actor and helped found a theatre company" -- All best, Catherine Daly c.a.b.daly at gmail.com From jforjames at aol.com Fri Oct 23 21:35:21 2009 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Fri, 23 Oct 2009 21:35:21 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] i hurt amber tamblyn's feelings In-Reply-To: <091D9B71-35DA-4736-97DA-99127A9B6567@myuw.net> References: <263FDE38-6167-4FB3-B766-B4A2A6B50853@myuw.net><4AE19AAA.7040308@nut-n-but.net><2F60667C-FF2F-457C-BAE5-4D6B75259B07@ripon.edu><30CA3ED510E3BE4C9E3C15ADC8603F69A8DAF4@URANIUM.ripon.college><8CC2238BB9BACC3-1F74-112BC@webmail-m080.sysops.aol.com><8CC224E0FE5D29B-3B44-6B49@webmail-d056.sysops.aol.com><8CC2254F811B60A-3B44-7364@webmail-d056.sysops.aol.com> <091D9B71-35DA-4736-97DA-99127A9B6567@myuw.net> Message-ID: <8CC2261626EFE65-3B44-8021@webmail-d056.sysops.aol.com> I don't think so. Again I think it's just a different bailiwick with the same normal distribution (bell curve). Paradigm shifts of fashion notwithstanding. Sam and Mike might know more about such things, but there must be 'post-new-formalists' by now. I mean 'new formalism' dates to early-mid 80s. The youngest gun of that grouping has to be in his/her fifties. And of the 'old formalists', who never really went away despite the vagaries of academic and critical fashion, Wilbur has got be almost the last man standing of the 'old formalists'. Wilbur I think delivered the goods, wrote enough fine poems to bear up and to support his reputation through a long life. Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: Jason Quackenbush Sent: Fri, Oct 23, 2009 8:08 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] i hurt amber tamblyn's feelings and they're considerably better than the new formalists... On Oct 23, 2009, at 5:06 PM, jforjames at aol.com wrote: > > (Pardon the blank email...I do have a thought.) > > I'd have to check out few venues to know, but my guess is that LA > area slam/performance poets (of all stripe and hue) are as bad/ok/> good/great as those in SF, NYC, Boston, Chicago, New Orleans, > London, Buenos Aires... > > And slam poets (anywhere), beyond one's personal taste/training, are > not any worse than other poet/poetry grouping one could name. > Finnegan > > -----Original Message----- > From: jforjames at aol.com > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Sent: Fri, Oct 23, 2009 7:17 pm > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] i hurt amber tamblyn's feelings > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Catherine Daly > Sent: Fri, Oct 23, 2009 5:29 pm > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] i hurt amber tamblyn's feelings > > > > you misread me; I wasn't asking if any African Americans were slam > oets; I was telling you that these really bad poets white poets are > he usual suspects -- to themselves -- in Orange County. > --> ll best, > atherine Daly > .a.b.daly at gmail.com > ______________________________________________ > ew-Poetry mailing list > ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > _______________________________________________ > ew-Poetry mailing list > ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Rsgwynn1 at cs.com Fri Oct 23 21:48:21 2009 From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com (Rsgwynn1 at cs.com) Date: Fri, 23 Oct 2009 21:48:21 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] i hurt amber tamblyn's feelings Message-ID: In a message dated 10/23/2009 7:08:33 PM Central Daylight Time, jfq at myuw.net writes: > > and they're considerably better than the new formalists... > Let 'em top this, sez I. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=21V7qTXRSIU -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Fri Oct 23 21:54:29 2009 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Fri, 23 Oct 2009 21:54:29 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] i hurt amber tamblyn's feelings In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8CC22640F12D743-3B44-82BB@webmail-d056.sysops.aol.com> -----Original Message----- From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Fri, Oct 23, 2009 9:48 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] i hurt amber tamblyn's feelings In a message dated 10/23/2009 7:08:33 PM Central Daylight Time, jfq at myuw.net writes: and they're considerably better than the new formalists... Let 'em top this, sez I. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=21V7qTXRSIU _______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Fri Oct 23 21:57:51 2009 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Fri, 23 Oct 2009 21:57:51 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] i hurt amber tamblyn's feelings In-Reply-To: <8CC22640F12D743-3B44-82BB@webmail-d056.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CC22640F12D743-3B44-82BB@webmail-d056.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <8CC2264872263B3-3B44-8316@webmail-d056.sysops.aol.com> oops again. Good grand postmo formalism, methinks. Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Fri, Oct 23, 2009 9:48 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] i hurt amber tamblyn's feelings In a message dated 10/23/2009 7:08:33 PM Central Daylight Time, jfq at myuw.net writes: and they're considerably better than the new formalists... Let 'em top this, sez I. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=21V7qTXRSIU _______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry = _______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Rsgwynn1 at cs.com Fri Oct 23 22:04:25 2009 From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com (Rsgwynn1 at cs.com) Date: Fri, 23 Oct 2009 22:04:25 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] i hurt amber tamblyn's feelings Message-ID: In a message dated 10/23/2009 8:36:05 PM Central Daylight Time, jforjames at aol.com writes: > I don't think so. Again I think it's just a different bailiwick with the > same normal distribution (bell curve). Paradigm shifts of fashion > notwithstanding. > > Sam and Mike might know more about such things, but there must be > 'post-new-formalists' by now. > I mean 'new formalism' dates to early-mid 80s. The youngest gun of that > grouping has to be in his/her fifties. > > And of the 'old formalists', who never really went away despite the > vagaries of academic and critical > fashion, Wilbur has got be almost the last man standing of the 'old > formalists'. Wilbur I think delivered > the goods, wrote enough fine poems to bear up and to support his > reputation through a long life. > Finnegan > Wilbur is still writing good poems, witness the 31 August New Yorker. Yes there are many younger formalist poets: Alicia Stallings, Catherine Tufariello, Joshua Mehigan, and lots of others born in the 70s The constant easy dissing that the so-called New Formalism (a term that was invented by someone who was dissing Brad Leithauser 25 years ago) gets here and elsewhere is a constant pain in the bum for me. Why is it so hard for anyone to admit that there might be poets born in the late 40s and 50s who were drawn to formal verse and wanted to write it? It's like this phenomenon is some kind of threat to a well-entrenched establishment. Or (oh again!) some kind of right-wing plot. Well, guys, I have voted in every election since 1972 and have never voted other than Democrat. This endless, mindless drivel pisses me off, to be quite frank. If it walks like a bush and quacks like a duck, it must be a Quackenbush. http://www.jottings.ca/john/voices/newbk_contents.html -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jfq at myuw.net Fri Oct 23 22:13:35 2009 From: jfq at myuw.net (Jason Quackenbush) Date: Fri, 23 Oct 2009 19:13:35 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] i hurt amber tamblyn's feelings In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I invite you to consider the common english phrase which is a simple spondaic foot all on it's lonesome and would be a suitable end rhyme for a line that concluded with the words "truck blue." On Oct 23, 2009, at 7:04 PM, Rsgwynn1 at cs.com wrote: > In a message dated 10/23/2009 8:36:05 PM Central Daylight Time, > jforjames at aol.com writes: >> I don't think so. Again I think it's just a different bailiwick >> with the >> same normal distribution (bell curve). Paradigm shifts of fashion >> notwithstanding. >> >> Sam and Mike might know more about such things, but there must be >> 'post-new-formalists' by now. >> I mean 'new formalism' dates to early-mid 80s. The youngest gun of >> that >> grouping has to be in his/her fifties. >> >> And of the 'old formalists', who never really went away despite the >> vagaries of academic and critical >> fashion, Wilbur has got be almost the last man standing of the 'old >> formalists'. Wilbur I think delivered >> the goods, wrote enough fine poems to bear up and to support his >> reputation through a long life. >> Finnegan >> > Wilbur is still writing good poems, witness the 31 August New Yorker. > > Yes there are many younger formalist poets: Alicia Stallings, > Catherine > Tufariello, Joshua Mehigan, and lots of others born in the 70s > > The constant easy dissing that the so-called New Formalism (a term > that was > invented by someone who was dissing Brad Leithauser 25 years ago) > gets here > and elsewhere is a constant pain in the bum for me. Why is it so > hard for > anyone to admit that there might be poets born in the late 40s and > 50s who > were drawn to formal verse and wanted to write it? It's like this > phenomenon > is some kind of threat to a well-entrenched establishment. Or (oh > again!) > some kind of right-wing plot. Well, guys, I have voted in every > election > since 1972 and have never voted other than Democrat. This endless, > mindless > drivel pisses me off, to be quite frank. If it walks like a bush > and quacks > like a duck, it must be a Quackenbush. > > http://www.jottings.ca/john/voices/newbk_contents.html > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com Fri Oct 23 22:29:07 2009 From: robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com (Robin Hamilton) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2009 03:29:07 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] i hurt amber tamblyn's feelings In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >I invite you to consider the common english phrase which is a simple >spondaic foot all on it's lonesome and would be a suitable end rhyme for a >line that concluded with the words "truck blue." Maybe in your metrics, Jason, but in my book there's (a) no such thing as a spondee [metrical stress or as it's known in the business, ictus, being a matter of contrast] and (b) the phrase, depending on context [and without context, both meaning and rhythm are so slippery as to be unintelligible], would resolve either as an iamb or a trochee, so imposing a single metrical identity on it suggests a certain totalitarian cast of mind. So why don't you take a flying one at the moon and see what she says? Robin PS -- Anyone have an opinion on the poetry of Paul Blackburn? I've just come on it and want to explore further. R. From chris at chrislott.org Fri Oct 23 22:30:48 2009 From: chris at chrislott.org (Chris Lott) Date: Fri, 23 Oct 2009 20:30:48 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] i hurt amber tamblyn's feelings In-Reply-To: <263FDE38-6167-4FB3-B766-B4A2A6B50853@myuw.net> References: <263FDE38-6167-4FB3-B766-B4A2A6B50853@myuw.net> Message-ID: I know nothing about Slam poetry except for a few uniformly horrible bits I've heard online, including some pieces from def poetry jam. I hunted around and read some Matt Cook-- found a few poems that were interesting. But just so I know the what from the what: am I supposed to dislike the work because he's white and claims (presumably) to be a slam poet or was there more to it? c From Rsgwynn1 at cs.com Fri Oct 23 22:33:47 2009 From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com (Rsgwynn1 at cs.com) Date: Fri, 23 Oct 2009 22:33:47 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] i hurt amber tamblyn's feelings Message-ID: In a message dated 10/23/2009 9:14:15 PM Central Daylight Time, jfq at myuw.net writes: > > I invite you to consider the common english phrase which is a simple > spondaic foot all on it's lonesome and would be a suitable end rhyme > for a line that concluded with the words "truck blue." > "English" should be capitalized, "it's" is misspelled, and "duck poo" is the apparent rhyme you're looking for. I suggest you look for a rhyme for "big current bird." -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com Fri Oct 23 22:48:37 2009 From: robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com (Robin Hamilton) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2009 03:48:37 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] i hurt amber tamblyn's feelings In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I invite you to consider the common english phrase which is a simple spondaic foot all on it's lonesome and would be a suitable end rhyme for a line that concluded with the words "truck blue." "English" should be capitalized, "it's" is misspelled, and "duck poo" is the apparent rhyme you're looking for. I suggest you look for a rhyme for "big current bird." Nah, Sam, you misunderstand the laddie -- he's putting the english on the phrase rather than merely being abusive. This is signalled by the deliberate avoidance of the capital, thus calling up the context (and context is all) of billiards rather than dialectology. As for "it's lonesome", i think this is a straight lift from e.e.cummings (with apologies to Bob G who would rebuke me for my refusal of capitals in that case), and would unfold as "the neuter pronoun in its beingness experiences the existential void." So at the least, you have to allow that our Jase is cramming infinite meanings into a little cussing. Robin -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From junction at earthlink.net Fri Oct 23 23:12:26 2009 From: junction at earthlink.net (Mark Weiss) Date: Fri, 23 Oct 2009 23:12:26 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] i hurt amber tamblyn's feelings In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Check out http://jacketmagazine.com/12/index.shtml. There's a really nice piece by yours truly. Nobody there wrote about Paul as translator. Look around for a copy of Proensa, his collected troubador translations--the best going. >PS -- Anyone have an opinion on the poetry of Paul Blackburn? I've >just come on it and want to explore further. R. > > > >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry Announcing The Whole Island: Six Decades of Cuban Poetry (University of California Press). Forthcoming in November 2009. http://go.ucpress.edu/WholeIsland From robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com Sat Oct 24 00:12:53 2009 From: robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com (Robin Hamilton) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2009 05:12:53 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Paul Blackburn {Thread Retitled} In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6F9DFC44ADD24254A36CA92638FE5BA9@RobinLaptopPC> Thanks, Mark. Perfect. I'll check it out, both your piece and the rest of the issue. I've his Collected on order, but I'll see if I can find copy of his troubador translations. Was there a Pound connection? (Hey, talking of translating, did you know that Michael Alexander was taught in highschool by Peter Whigham? Dunno quite what to make of that.) Cheers, Robin ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Weiss" To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views" Sent: Saturday, October 24, 2009 4:12 AM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] i hurt amber tamblyn's feelings > Check out http://jacketmagazine.com/12/index.shtml. There's a really nice > piece by yours truly. > > Nobody there wrote about Paul as translator. Look around for a copy of > Proensa, his collected troubador translations--the best going. > > >>PS -- Anyone have an opinion on the poetry of Paul Blackburn? I've just >>come on it and want to explore further. R. From junction at earthlink.net Sat Oct 24 01:31:15 2009 From: junction at earthlink.net (Mark Weiss) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2009 01:31:15 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Paul Blackburn {Thread Retitled} In-Reply-To: <6F9DFC44ADD24254A36CA92638FE5BA9@RobinLaptopPC> References: <6F9DFC44ADD24254A36CA92638FE5BA9@RobinLaptopPC> Message-ID: Yup, Pound suggested he do it. Paul's Provencal is better than the master's. Look for the University of California edition, or the 1986 paperback. There are some good deals on Amazon. At 12:12 AM 10/24/2009, you wrote: >Thanks, Mark. Perfect. I'll check it out, both your piece and the >rest of the issue. > >I've his Collected on order, but I'll see if I can find copy of his >troubador translations. Was there a Pound connection? > >(Hey, talking of translating, did you know that Michael Alexander >was taught in highschool by Peter Whigham? Dunno quite what to make of that.) > >Cheers, > >Robin > >----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Weiss" >To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views" > >Sent: Saturday, October 24, 2009 4:12 AM >Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] i hurt amber tamblyn's feelings > > >>Check out http://jacketmagazine.com/12/index.shtml. There's a >>really nice piece by yours truly. >> >>Nobody there wrote about Paul as translator. Look around for a copy >>of Proensa, his collected troubador translations--the best going. >> >> >>>PS -- Anyone have an opinion on the poetry of Paul >>>Blackburn? I've just come on it and want to explore further. R. > > >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry Announcing The Whole Island: Six Decades of Cuban Poetry (University of California Press). Forthcoming in November 2009. http://go.ucpress.edu/WholeIsland From jfq at myuw.net Sat Oct 24 01:44:14 2009 From: jfq at myuw.net (Jason Quackenbush) Date: Fri, 23 Oct 2009 22:44:14 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] i hurt amber tamblyn's feelings In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6A35B995-065B-4695-91D1-55E15188AD59@myuw.net> I intended the context to be sort of standing alone, and while granted I think you could say its an iamb or a trochee, the way i intend it to be pronounced it's a spondee. But then, I don't believe in feet anyway so who knows. As for the totalitarian cast of mind, well, I'll cop to that. No doubt the moon would disagree with me. On Oct 23, 2009, at 7:29 PM, Robin Hamilton wrote: >> I invite you to consider the common english phrase which is a >> simple spondaic foot all on it's lonesome and would be a suitable >> end rhyme for a line that concluded with the words "truck blue." > > Maybe in your metrics, Jason, but in my book there's (a) no such > thing as a spondee [metrical stress or as it's known in the > business, ictus, being a matter of contrast] and (b) the phrase, > depending on context [and without context, both meaning and rhythm > are so slippery as to be unintelligible], would resolve either as an > iamb or a trochee, so imposing a single metrical identity on it > suggests a certain totalitarian cast of mind. > > So why don't you take a flying one at the moon and see what she says? > > Robin > > PS -- Anyone have an opinion on the poetry of Paul Blackburn? I've > just come on it and want to explore further. R. > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From jfq at myuw.net Sat Oct 24 01:45:49 2009 From: jfq at myuw.net (Jason Quackenbush) Date: Fri, 23 Oct 2009 22:45:49 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] i hurt amber tamblyn's feelings In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <06FB8378-23F7-4F33-A2C8-2891067DF8F5@myuw.net> ha! excellent. On Oct 23, 2009, at 7:48 PM, Robin Hamilton wrote: > > I invite you to consider the common english phrase which is a > simple > spondaic foot all on it's lonesome and would be a suitable end > rhyme > for a line that concluded with the words "truck blue." > > "English" should be capitalized, "it's" is misspelled, and "duck > poo" is the apparent rhyme you're looking for. I suggest you look > for a rhyme for "big current bird." > > Nah, Sam, you misunderstand the laddie -- he's putting the english > on the phrase rather than merely being abusive. This is signalled > by the deliberate avoidance of the capital, thus calling up the > context (and context is all) of billiards rather than dialectology. > As for "it's lonesome", i think this is a straight lift from > e.e.cummings (with apologies to Bob G who would rebuke me for my > refusal of capitals in that case), and would unfold as "the neuter > pronoun in its beingness experiences the existential void." > > So at the least, you have to allow that our Jase is cramming > infinite meanings into a little cussing. > > Robin_______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From jfq at myuw.net Sat Oct 24 01:51:38 2009 From: jfq at myuw.net (Jason Quackenbush) Date: Fri, 23 Oct 2009 22:51:38 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] i hurt amber tamblyn's feelings In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <58E90972-7BD5-4BEC-B17A-0F9C7010E993@myuw.net> "welp, in soared lint, class." On Oct 23, 2009, at 7:33 PM, Rsgwynn1 at cs.com wrote: > In a message dated 10/23/2009 9:14:15 PM Central Daylight Time, > jfq at myuw.net writes: >> >> I invite you to consider the common english phrase which is a simple >> spondaic foot all on it's lonesome and would be a suitable end rhyme >> for a line that concluded with the words "truck blue." >> > "English" should be capitalized, "it's" is misspelled, and "duck > poo" is > the apparent rhyme you're looking for. I suggest you look for a > rhyme for > "big current bird." > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sat Oct 24 07:19:52 2009 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2009 06:19:52 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] i hurt amber tamblyn's feelings In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4AE2E2D8.4040600@nut-n-but.net> Rsgwynn1 at cs.com wrote: > In a message dated 10/23/2009 8:36:05 PM Central Daylight Time, > jforjames at aol.com writes: >> I don't think so. Again I think it's just a different bailiwick with the >> same normal distribution (bell curve). Paradigm shifts of fashion >> notwithstanding. >> >> Sam and Mike might know more about such things, but there must be >> 'post-new-formalists' by now. >> I mean 'new formalism' dates to early-mid 80s. The youngest gun of >> that grouping has to be in his/her fifties. >> >> And of the 'old formalists', who never really went away despite the >> vagaries of academic and critical >> fashion, Wilbur has got be almost the last man standing of the 'old >> formalists'. Wilbur I think delivered >> the goods, wrote enough fine poems to bear up and to support his >> reputation through a long life. >> Finnegan > > Wilbur is still writing good poems, witness the 31 August /New Yorker/. > > Yes there are many younger formalist poets: Alicia Stallings, > Catherine Tufariello, Joshua Mehigan, and lots of others born in the 70s > > The constant easy dissing that the so-called New Formalism (a term > that was invented by someone who was dissing Brad Leithauser 25 years > ago) gets here and elsewhere is a constant pain in the bum for me. > Why is it so hard for anyone to admit that there might be poets born > in the late 40s and 50s who were drawn to formal verse and wanted to > write it? It's like this phenomenon is some kind of threat to a > well-entrenched establishment. Or (oh again!) some kind of right-wing > plot. Well, guys, I have voted in every election since 1972 and have > /never/ voted other than Democrat. This endless, mindless drivel > pisses me off, to be quite frank. If it walks like a bush and quacks > like a duck, it must be a Quackenbush. > > http://www.jottings.ca/john/voices/newbk_contents.html Haw, you sound like some would claim I sound, Sam. But I think you're oversimplifying what happened a little. For instance, Gioia and others seem to me to have happily formed a school of formalists in reaction to the dominance of the Iowa plaintext lyric. Many of them, I believe, called themselves new formalists with pride. I would add that whether formalists are politically right-wing or not (and they--as a group--certainly are for poets), they are right-wing poetically. Finally, I would say you should be thankful to be constantly dissed; my brand of poetry is just about never dissed, it's ignored. --Bob (who has always pushed for greater recognition of the many under-recognized schools of poetry including formalism) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd at ripon.edu Sat Oct 24 12:15:17 2009 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2009 11:15:17 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Among Philistines In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Who's reading this, Sam? ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.me.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== On Oct 23, 2009, at 8:48 PM, Rsgwynn1 at cs.com wrote: > In a message dated 10/23/2009 7:08:33 PM Central Daylight Time, jfq at myuw.net > writes: >> >> and they're considerably better than the new formalists... > > Let 'em top this, sez I. > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=21V7qTXRSIU > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at gmail.com Sat Oct 24 12:18:43 2009 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2009 11:18:43 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] i hurt amber tamblyn's feelings In-Reply-To: <4AE2E2D8.4040600@nut-n-but.net> References: <4AE2E2D8.4040600@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: I've never been sure how the New Yorker's publication dates correlate to the dates of poems' writing. I got the impression that when a poem gets published there depends as much on when a certain amount of space needs to be filled as anything else. Anyone know? Hal ?When a man rides a long time in wild regions he feels the desire for a city.? --Italo Calvino Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org Wilbur is still writing good poems, witness the 31 August *New Yorker*. > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Rsgwynn1 at cs.com Sat Oct 24 12:31:28 2009 From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com (Rsgwynn1 at cs.com) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2009 12:31:28 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Among Philistines Message-ID: In a message dated 10/24/2009 11:15:56 AM Central Daylight Time, grahamd at ripon.edu writes: > > Who's reading this, Sam? > > > > > Nobody knows who the guy is, but he has an extensive bunch of poems on YouTube. I heard a rumor that Roger Ebert knows but ain't saying. I'm praying it's Terence Stamp. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Sat Oct 24 12:41:19 2009 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2009 18:41:19 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] i hurt amber tamblyn's feelings In-Reply-To: References: <4AE2E2D8.4040600@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <4b65c2d70910240941t7f16700dk51146160ef48f8f6@mail.gmail.com> For those who worked at a newspaper that's no news: size and ads are the laws. They call those spaces boxes, and they have to be filled in, every single day. On Sat, Oct 24, 2009 at 6:18 PM, Halvard Johnson wrote: > > I've never been sure how the New Yorker's publication dates correlate > to the dates of poems' writing. I got the impression that when a poem > gets published there depends as much on when a certain amount of > space needs to be filled as anything else. Anyone know? > > Hal > > ?When a man rides a long time in wild > regions he feels the desire for a city.? > --Italo Calvino > > > Halvard Johnson > ================ > halvard at gmail.com > http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > http://www.hamiltonstone.org > > > > > > Wilbur is still writing good poems, witness the 31 August *New Yorker*. >> >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at gmail.com Sat Oct 24 13:00:42 2009 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2009 12:00:42 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] i hurt amber tamblyn's feelings In-Reply-To: <4b65c2d70910240941t7f16700dk51146160ef48f8f6@mail.gmail.com> References: <4AE2E2D8.4040600@nut-n-but.net> <4b65c2d70910240941t7f16700dk51146160ef48f8f6@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: I loved it, back in the day, when The Village Voice used the same item over and over for column filler. It was a sentence something like "In 1938, the state of Wyoming produced 1.5 lbs. of beans for every man, woman and child in the US." That's probably not exactly it, since my memory is failing. I think it was The Village Voice. Hal, aka Whatshisname ?When a man rides a long time in wild regions he feels the desire for a city.? --Italo Calvino Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org On Sat, Oct 24, 2009 at 11:41 AM, Anny Ballardini wrote: > For those who worked at a newspaper that's no news: size and ads are the > laws. They call those spaces boxes, and they have to be filled in, every > single day. > > On Sat, Oct 24, 2009 at 6:18 PM, Halvard Johnson wrote: > >> >> I've never been sure how the New Yorker's publication dates correlate >> to the dates of poems' writing. I got the impression that when a poem >> gets published there depends as much on when a certain amount of >> space needs to be filled as anything else. Anyone know? >> >> Hal >> >> ?When a man rides a long time in wild >> regions he feels the desire for a city.? >> --Italo Calvino >> >> >> Halvard Johnson >> ================ >> halvard at gmail.com >> http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home >> http://entropyandme.blogspot.com >> http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com >> http://www.hamiltonstone.org >> >> >> >> >> >> Wilbur is still writing good poems, witness the 31 August *New Yorker*. >>> >>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > > > -- > Anny Ballardini > http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ > http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome > http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 > http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html > I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing > star! > Friedrich Nietzsche > > ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique > vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? > Giovenale > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Sat Oct 24 13:51:30 2009 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2009 13:51:30 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] i hurt amber tamblyn's feelings In-Reply-To: <4AE2E2D8.4040600@nut-n-but.net> References: <4AE2E2D8.4040600@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <8CC22E9C0AA29BA-5BFC-36C25@webmail-d095.sysops.aol.com> I find myself agreeing, in part, with Bob, which is an odd feeling. I can certainly understand Sam's discomfort with some of the ways the rubric "New Formalism" has been cast, but it doesn't seem entirely negative to me. A lot of attention got paid to poets who may not have been noticed. And, as a way of expressing the energy and vitality of those poets who favored formal prosody over free verse, it seems apt. I definitely agree that calling the NF poets conservative or right-wing based on their artistic practice was unfair on the face of it and likely a backlash by those who felt their dominant strain being squeezed a little. (The infamous Ira Sadoff piece in APR years ago, was a case in point.) Certainly the anthology titled Rebel Angels played up the NFs as a movement to be reckoned with, and not just a group of poets who happened to like to write formal verse. That was an instance of marketing/branding for sure. >From the otherside, you hear certain formalists imply that if one isn't working in meter & rhyme it's an indication of laziness or just plain inability. Usually it's the position of a poet who hits all the formal marks in the poetry, but writes the deadest verse imaginable. It's kind of compliment to be called 'old school' these days, so maybe that's the better term. Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: Bob Grumman Sent: Sat, Oct 24, 2009 7:19 am Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] i hurt amber tamblyn's feelings Rsgwynn1 at cs.com wrote: In a message dated 10/23/2009 8:36:05 PM Central Daylight Time, jforjames at aol.com writes: I don't think so. Again I think it's just a different bailiwick with the same normal distribution (bell curve). Paradigm shifts of fashion notwithstanding. Sam and Mike might know more about such things, but there must be 'post-new-formalists' by now. I mean 'new formalism' dates to early-mid 80s. The youngest gun of that grouping has to be in his/her fifties. And of the 'old formalists', who never really went away despite the vagaries of academic and critical fashion, Wilbur has got be almost the last man standing of the 'old formalists'. Wilbur I think delivered the goods, wrote enough fine poems to bear up and to support his reputation through a long life. Finnegan Wilbur is still writing good poems, witness the 31 August New Yorker. Yes there are many younger formalist poets: Alicia Stallings, Catherine Tufariello, Joshua Mehigan, and lots of others born in the 70s The constant easy dissing that the so-called New Formalism (a term that was invented by someone who was dissing Brad Leithauser 25 years ago) gets here and elsewhere is a constant pain in the bum for me. Why is it so hard for anyone to admit that there might be poets born in the late 40s and 50s who were drawn to formal verse and wanted to write it? It's like this phenomenon is some kind of threat to a well-entrenched establishment. Or (oh again!) some kind of right-wing plot. Well, guys, I have voted in every election since 1972 and have never voted other than Democrat. This endless, mindless drivel pisses me off, to be quite frank. If it walks like a bush and quacks like a duck, it must be a Quackenbush. http://www.jottings.ca/john/voices/newbk_contents.html Haw, you sound like some would claim I sound, Sam. But I think you're oversimplifying what happened a little. For instance, Gioia and others seem to me to have happily formed a school of formalists in reaction to the dominance of the Iowa plaintext lyric. Many of them, I believe, called themselves new formalists with pride. I would add that whether formalists are politically right-wing or not (and they--as a group--certainly are for poets), they are right-wing poetically. Finally, I would say you should be thankful to be constantly dissed; my brand of poetry is just about never dissed, it's ignored. --Bob (who has always pushed for greater recognition of the many under-recognized schools of poetry including formalism) _______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mandolin at mikesnider.org Sat Oct 24 15:52:46 2009 From: mandolin at mikesnider.org (Michael Snider) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2009 15:52:46 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] i hurt amber tamblyn's feelings In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6768ac830910241252r530c18c3xb4d33b85186da57f@mail.gmail.com> Sam's list - and the rest, as well - is good. Off the top of my head, some fabulous collections of metrical work by folk younger than me, at any rate: Jenny Factor's Unraveling at the Name, Tony Barnstone's Sad Jazz, Jill Alexander Essbaum's Harlot, Julie Kane's Rhythm and Booze, and Glyn Maxwell's Time's Fool. That last isn't really a collection - it's a terza rima novel, and, says wikipedia, is in development for film. On Fri, Oct 23, 2009 at 10:04 PM, wrote: > In a message dated 10/23/2009 8:36:05 PM Central Daylight Time, > jforjames at aol.com writes: > > I don't think so. Again I think it's just a different bailiwick with the > same normal distribution (bell curve). Paradigm shifts of fashion > notwithstanding. > > Sam and Mike might know more about such things, but there must be > 'post-new-formalists' by now. > I mean 'new formalism' dates to early-mid 80s. The youngest gun of that > grouping has to be in his/her fifties. > > And of the 'old formalists', who never really went away despite the vagaries > of academic and critical > fashion, Wilbur has got be almost the last man standing of the 'old > formalists'. Wilbur I think delivered > the goods, wrote enough fine poems to bear up and to support his reputation > through a long life. > Finnegan > > Wilbur is still writing good poems, witness the 31 August New Yorker. > > Yes there are many younger formalist poets: Alicia Stallings, Catherine > Tufariello, Joshua Mehigan, and lots of others born in the 70s > > The constant easy dissing that the so-called New Formalism (a term that was > invented by someone who was dissing Brad Leithauser 25 years ago) gets here > and elsewhere is a constant pain in the bum for me.? Why is it so hard for > anyone to admit that there might be poets born in the late 40s and 50s who > were drawn to formal verse and wanted to write it?? It's like this > phenomenon is some kind of threat to a well-entrenched establishment. Or (oh > again!) some kind of right-wing plot.? Well, guys, I have voted in every > election since 1972 and have never voted other than Democrat.? This endless, > mindless drivel pisses me off, to be quite frank.? If it walks like a bush > and quacks like a duck, it must be a Quackenbush. > > http://www.jottings.ca/john/voices/newbk_contents.html > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > From junction at earthlink.net Sat Oct 24 16:05:04 2009 From: junction at earthlink.net (Mark Weiss) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2009 16:05:04 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] i hurt amber tamblyn's feelings In-Reply-To: <6768ac830910241252r530c18c3xb4d33b85186da57f@mail.gmail.co m> References: <6768ac830910241252r530c18c3xb4d33b85186da57f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Which they'll shoot in mosaic tile. At 03:52 PM 10/24/2009, you wrote: >Sam's list - and the rest, as well - is good. Off the top of my head, >some fabulous collections of metrical work by folk younger than me, at >any rate: Jenny Factor's Unraveling at the Name, Tony Barnstone's Sad >Jazz, Jill Alexander Essbaum's Harlot, Julie Kane's Rhythm and Booze, >and Glyn Maxwell's Time's Fool. That last isn't really a collection - >it's a terza rima novel, and, says wikipedia, is in development for >film. > > > >On Fri, Oct 23, 2009 at 10:04 PM, wrote: > > In a message dated 10/23/2009 8:36:05 PM Central Daylight Time, > > jforjames at aol.com writes: > > > > I don't think so. Again I think it's just a different bailiwick with the > > same normal distribution (bell curve). Paradigm shifts of fashion > > notwithstanding. > > > > Sam and Mike might know more about such things, but there must be > > 'post-new-formalists' by now. > > I mean 'new formalism' dates to early-mid 80s. The youngest gun of that > > grouping has to be in his/her fifties. > > > > And of the 'old formalists', who never really went away despite > the vagaries > > of academic and critical > > fashion, Wilbur has got be almost the last man standing of the 'old > > formalists'. Wilbur I think delivered > > the goods, wrote enough fine poems to bear up and to support his reputation > > through a long life. > > Finnegan > > > > Wilbur is still writing good poems, witness the 31 August New Yorker. > > > > Yes there are many younger formalist poets: Alicia Stallings, Catherine > > Tufariello, Joshua Mehigan, and lots of others born in the 70s > > > > The constant easy dissing that the so-called New Formalism (a term that was > > invented by someone who was dissing Brad Leithauser 25 years ago) gets here > > and elsewhere is a constant pain in the bum for me. Why is it so hard for > > anyone to admit that there might be poets born in the late 40s and 50s who > > were drawn to formal verse and wanted to write it? It's like this > > phenomenon is some kind of threat to a well-entrenched > establishment. Or (oh > > again!) some kind of right-wing plot. Well, guys, I have voted in every > > election since 1972 and have never voted other than > Democrat. This endless, > > mindless drivel pisses me off, to be quite frank. If it walks like a bush > > and quacks like a duck, it must be a Quackenbush. > > > > http://www.jottings.ca/john/voices/newbk_contents.html > > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry Announcing The Whole Island: Six Decades of Cuban Poetry (University of California Press). Forthcoming in November 2009. http://go.ucpress.edu/WholeIsland From uche at ogbuji.net Sat Oct 24 16:13:01 2009 From: uche at ogbuji.net (Uche Ogbuji) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2009 14:13:01 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] i hurt amber tamblyn's feelings In-Reply-To: <6A35B995-065B-4695-91D1-55E15188AD59@myuw.net> References: <6A35B995-065B-4695-91D1-55E15188AD59@myuw.net> Message-ID: On Fri, Oct 23, 2009 at 11:44 PM, Jason Quackenbush wrote: > I intended the context to be sort of standing alone, and while granted I > think you could say its an iamb or a trochee, the way i intend it to be > pronounced it's a spondee. But then, I don't believe in feet anyway so who > knows. As for the totalitarian cast of mind, well, I'll cop to that. No > doubt the moon would disagree with me. In other words, your ears fail you rather miserably. I think there's a lot in that to apply to your manifestation in this thread, including to the link with which you began this thread. -- Uche Ogbuji http://uche.ogbuji.net Founding Partner, Zepheira http://zepheira.com Linked-in profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/ucheogbuji Articles: http://uche.ogbuji.net/tech/publications/ Friendfeed: http://friendfeed.com/uche Twitter: http://twitter.com/uogbuji -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jfq at myuw.net Sat Oct 24 16:36:03 2009 From: jfq at myuw.net (Jason Quackenbush) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2009 13:36:03 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] i hurt amber tamblyn's feelings In-Reply-To: References: <6A35B995-065B-4695-91D1-55E15188AD59@myuw.net> Message-ID: <6486E085-28A2-4728-AD67-F282695D3D2A@myuw.net> You really want to throw down? I'd prefer to keep things a bit more collegial and friendly, and I know the owner of the list prefers that. At the same time, I really have a hard time just letting personal attacks out of nowhere go unanswered. So if you really want to go there, I'm perfectly willing to say all sorts unfounded mean and nasty things about you and everyone you know and love. In the alternative, you can back down and apologize for being a dick and in the end save us both a great deal of time and energy. On Oct 24, 2009, at 1:13 PM, Uche Ogbuji wrote: > On Fri, Oct 23, 2009 at 11:44 PM, Jason Quackenbush > wrote: > >> I intended the context to be sort of standing alone, and while >> granted I >> think you could say its an iamb or a trochee, the way i intend it >> to be >> pronounced it's a spondee. But then, I don't believe in feet anyway >> so who >> knows. As for the totalitarian cast of mind, well, I'll cop to >> that. No >> doubt the moon would disagree with me. > > > In other words, your ears fail you rather miserably. I think > there's a lot > in that to apply to your manifestation in this thread, including to > the link > with which you began this thread. > > -- > Uche Ogbuji http://uche.ogbuji.net > Founding Partner, Zepheira http://zepheira.com > Linked-in profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/ucheogbuji > Articles: http://uche.ogbuji.net/tech/publications/ > Friendfeed: http://friendfeed.com/uche > Twitter: http://twitter.com/uogbuji > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com Sat Oct 24 16:46:37 2009 From: robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com (Robin Hamilton) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2009 21:46:37 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] i hurt amber tamblyn's feelings In-Reply-To: <6486E085-28A2-4728-AD67-F282695D3D2A@myuw.net> References: <6A35B995-065B-4695-91D1-55E15188AD59@myuw.net> <6486E085-28A2-4728-AD67-F282695D3D2A@myuw.net> Message-ID: <3B69EAB7726F45B286746DD850C4422C@RobinLaptopPC> > You really want to throw down? I'd prefer to keep things a bit more > collegial and friendly, and I know the owner of the list prefers that. Hey, hozabout we-all have a Flyting? Good poetic tradition that. Or is it just Scottish? Queensberry Rules -- must be in some sort of metrical form. His ear as sadly limp as his ... life To compensate, he beats his wife; But true to formalist tradition Only in a fixed position. Hm ... Even I am prepared to admit that that's not quite up to the level of Pope. Robin. From Rsgwynn1 at cs.com Sat Oct 24 17:04:54 2009 From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com (Rsgwynn1 at cs.com) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2009 17:04:54 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] i hurt amber tamblyn's feelings Message-ID: In a message dated 10/24/2009 2:53:14 PM Central Daylight Time, mandolin at mikesnider.org writes: > > Sam's list - and the rest, as well - is good. Off the top of my head, > some fabulous collections of metrical work by folk younger than me, at > any rate: Jenny Factor's Unraveling at the Name, Tony Barnstone's Sad > Jazz, Jill Alexander Essbaum's Harlot, Julie Kane's Rhythm and Booze, > and Glyn Maxwell's Time's Fool. That last isn't really a collection - > it's a terza rima novel, and, says wikipedia, is in development for > film. > Julie's not that much younger than you, Mike! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From junction at earthlink.net Sat Oct 24 17:13:25 2009 From: junction at earthlink.net (Mark Weiss) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2009 17:13:25 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] i hurt amber tamblyn's feelings In-Reply-To: <6486E085-28A2-4728-AD67-F282695D3D2A@myuw.net> References: <6A35B995-065B-4695-91D1-55E15188AD59@myuw.net> <6486E085-28A2-4728-AD67-F282695D3D2A@myuw.net> Message-ID: Hey, guys, you're arguing about a conention. If you have to get nasty, take it b/c. At 04:36 PM 10/24/2009, you wrote: >You really want to throw down? I'd prefer to keep things a bit more >collegial and friendly, and I know the owner of the list prefers that. > >At the same time, I really have a hard time just letting personal >attacks out of nowhere go unanswered. So if you really want to go >there, I'm perfectly willing to say all sorts unfounded mean and nasty >things about you and everyone you know and love. > >In the alternative, you can back down and apologize for being a dick >and in the end save us both a great deal of time and energy. > > >On Oct 24, 2009, at 1:13 PM, Uche Ogbuji wrote: > >>On Fri, Oct 23, 2009 at 11:44 PM, Jason Quackenbush >>wrote: >> >>>I intended the context to be sort of standing alone, and while >>>granted I >>>think you could say its an iamb or a trochee, the way i intend it >>>to be >>>pronounced it's a spondee. But then, I don't believe in feet anyway >>>so who >>>knows. As for the totalitarian cast of mind, well, I'll cop to >>>that. No >>>doubt the moon would disagree with me. >> >> >>In other words, your ears fail you rather miserably. I think >>there's a lot >>in that to apply to your manifestation in this thread, including to >>the link >>with which you began this thread. >> >>-- >>Uche Ogbuji http://uche.ogbuji.net >>Founding Partner, Zepheira http://zepheira.com >>Linked-in profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/ucheogbuji >>Articles: http://uche.ogbuji.net/tech/publications/ >>Friendfeed: http://friendfeed.com/uche >>Twitter: http://twitter.com/uogbuji >>_______________________________________________ >>New-Poetry mailing list >>New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry Announcing The Whole Island: Six Decades of Cuban Poetry (University of California Press). Forthcoming in November 2009. http://go.ucpress.edu/WholeIsland From robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com Sat Oct 24 17:14:21 2009 From: robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com (Robin Hamilton) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2009 22:14:21 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fw: Larrikin Poetry Message-ID: Crossposted: > Any (presumably most likely Australians) on the list direct me to any > accessible -- in the sense of I can get to them on the Web, ideally -- > texts of Larrikin poetry, other than "Fanny Flukem's Ball"? > > R. From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sat Oct 24 18:20:25 2009 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2009 17:20:25 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] i hurt amber tamblyn's feelings In-Reply-To: <3B69EAB7726F45B286746DD850C4422C@RobinLaptopPC> References: <6A35B995-065B-4695-91D1-55E15188AD59@myuw.net><6486E085-2 8A2-4728-AD67-F282695D3D2A@myuw.net> <3B69EAB7726F45B286746DD850C4422C@RobinLaptopPC> Message-ID: <4AE37DA9.9070808@nut-n-but.net> Robin Hamilton wrote: >> You really want to throw down? I'd prefer to keep things a bit more >> collegial and friendly, and I know the owner of the list prefers that. > > Hey, hozabout we-all have a Flyting? Good poetic tradition that. Or > is it just Scottish? > > Queensberry Rules -- must be in some sort of metrical form. > > His ear as sadly limp as his ... life > To compensate, he beats his wife; > But true to formalist tradition > Only in a fixed position. His brain, not ear, has ruint his life. To compensate, he beats your wife; but true to avant garde tradtion never in a fixed position. We are after Jason, right? Hey, I just hope everyone is aware how civilized I've acted throughout this thread amongst all you halfwits. Oops. ----Bob From jforjames at aol.com Sat Oct 24 17:43:01 2009 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2009 17:43:01 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] i hurt amber tamblyn's feelings In-Reply-To: References: <6A35B995-065B-4695-91D1-55E15188AD59@myuw.net><6486E085-28A2-4728-AD67-F282695D3D2A@myuw.net> Message-ID: <8CC230A184B2EB8-7704-1BC68@webmail-m015.sysops.aol.com> Yes, let's argue the points but avoid the more pointed jibes. J Finnegan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com Sat Oct 24 18:40:15 2009 From: robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com (Robin Hamilton) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2009 23:40:15 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] i hurt amber tamblyn's feelings In-Reply-To: <4AE37DA9.9070808@nut-n-but.net> References: <6A35B995-065B-4695-91D1-55E15188AD59@myuw.net><6486E085-28A2-4728-AD67-F282695D3D2A@myuw.net><3B69EAB7726F45B286746DD850C4422C@RobinLaptopPC> <4AE37DA9.9070808@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: > We are after Jason, right? Hey, I just hope everyone is aware how > civilized I've acted throughout this thread amongst all you halfwits. > > Oops. > > ----Bob Bob, calling you a halfwit would be a compliment. Robin From jjeffreymail at yahoo.com Sat Oct 24 19:00:14 2009 From: jjeffreymail at yahoo.com (John Jeffrey) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2009 16:00:14 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] i hurt amber tamblyn's feelings In-Reply-To: <4AE37DA9.9070808@nut-n-but.net> References: <6A35B995-065B-4695-91D1-55E15188AD59@myuw.net><6486E085-2 8A2-4728-AD67-F282695D3D2A@myuw.net> <3B69EAB7726F45B286746DD850C4422C@RobinLaptopPC> <4AE37DA9.9070808@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <472864.182.qm@web54104.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Hey Bob, thanks for the "...amongst all you halfwits" line. That made me laugh out loud, rare of late along this thread. The only other good was Sam's link to YouTube and that guy reading his poem. I've listened to quite a few of the other poems on his channel. He's good. And James, I went down to the Buttonwood to hear Jack McCarthy on Thursday. Great as always. I've seen him about half a dozen times now and he's never disappointed. JohnJ ________________________________ From: Bob Grumman To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views" Sent: Sat, October 24, 2009 6:20:25 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] i hurt amber tamblyn's feelings Robin Hamilton wrote: >> You really want to throw down? I'd prefer to keep things a bit more collegial and friendly, and I know the owner of the list prefers that. > > Hey, hozabout we-all have a Flyting? Good poetic tradition that. Or is it just Scottish? > > Queensberry Rules -- must be in some sort of metrical form. > > His ear as sadly limp as his ... life > To compensate, he beats his wife; > But true to formalist tradition > Only in a fixed position. His brain, not ear, has ruint his life. To compensate, he beats your wife; but true to avant garde tradtion never in a fixed position. We are after Jason, right? Hey, I just hope everyone is aware how civilized I've acted throughout this thread amongst all you halfwits. Oops. ----Bob _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mandolin at mikesnider.org Sat Oct 24 19:12:17 2009 From: mandolin at mikesnider.org (Michael Snider) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2009 19:12:17 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] i hurt amber tamblyn's feelings In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6768ac830910241612k4b4560fbr1334d7dd3174b945@mail.gmail.com> On Sat, Oct 24, 2009 at 5:04 PM, wrote: > In a message dated 10/24/2009 2:53:14 PM Central Daylight Time, > mandolin at mikesnider.org writes: > > Sam's list - and the rest, as well - is good. Off the top of my head, > some fabulous collections of metrical work by folk younger than me, at > any rate: Jenny Factor's Unraveling at the Name,? Tony Barnstone's Sad > Jazz, Jill Alexander Essbaum's Harlot,? Julie Kane's Rhythm and Booze, > and Glyn Maxwell's Time's Fool. That last isn't really a collection - > it's a terza rima novel, and, says wikipedia, is in development for > film. > > Julie's not that much younger than you, Mike! > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > She looks younger! Maybe I should dye my hair. From uche at ogbuji.net Sat Oct 24 20:06:27 2009 From: uche at ogbuji.net (Uche Ogbuji) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2009 18:06:27 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] i hurt amber tamblyn's feelings In-Reply-To: <6486E085-28A2-4728-AD67-F282695D3D2A@myuw.net> References: <6A35B995-065B-4695-91D1-55E15188AD59@myuw.net> <6486E085-28A2-4728-AD67-F282695D3D2A@myuw.net> Message-ID: On Sat, Oct 24, 2009 at 2:36 PM, Jason Quackenbush wrote: > You really want to throw down? If by asking that, you mean do I retract what I said, the answer is "no". > I'd prefer to keep things a bit more collegial and friendly, and I know the > owner of the list prefers that. > Friendly is nice, but so is useful, and sometimes clarity is useful. > At the same time, I really have a hard time just letting personal attacks > out of nowhere go unanswered. So if you really want to go there, I'm > perfectly willing to say all sorts unfounded mean and nasty things about you > and everyone you know and love. > Perhaps you are under the impression that would cause me some injury? > In the alternative, you can back down and apologize for being a dick and in > the end save us both a great deal of time and energy. For what little it's worth, I stand uninjured. -- Uche Ogbuji http://uche.ogbuji.net Founding Partner, Zepheira http://zepheira.com Linked-in profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/ucheogbuji Articles: http://uche.ogbuji.net/tech/publications/ Friendfeed: http://friendfeed.com/uche Twitter: http://twitter.com/uogbuji -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From uche at ogbuji.net Sat Oct 24 20:11:20 2009 From: uche at ogbuji.net (Uche Ogbuji) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2009 18:11:20 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] i hurt amber tamblyn's feelings In-Reply-To: <3B69EAB7726F45B286746DD850C4422C@RobinLaptopPC> References: <6A35B995-065B-4695-91D1-55E15188AD59@myuw.net> <6486E085-28A2-4728-AD67-F282695D3D2A@myuw.net> <3B69EAB7726F45B286746DD850C4422C@RobinLaptopPC> Message-ID: On Sat, Oct 24, 2009 at 2:46 PM, Robin Hamilton < robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com> wrote: > You really want to throw down? I'd prefer to keep things a bit more >> collegial and friendly, and I know the owner of the list prefers that. >> > > Hey, hozabout we-all have a Flyting? Good poetic tradition that. Or is it > just Scottish? > Certainly not. It's a good tradition, period. For extra credit we could encourage macaronic entries. -- Uche Ogbuji http://uche.ogbuji.net Founding Partner, Zepheira http://zepheira.com Linked-in profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/ucheogbuji Articles: http://uche.ogbuji.net/tech/publications/ Friendfeed: http://friendfeed.com/uche Twitter: http://twitter.com/uogbuji -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From uche at ogbuji.net Sat Oct 24 20:33:17 2009 From: uche at ogbuji.net (Uche Ogbuji) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2009 18:33:17 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] i hurt amber tamblyn's feelings In-Reply-To: <4AE37DA9.9070808@nut-n-but.net> References: <6A35B995-065B-4695-91D1-55E15188AD59@myuw.net> <3B69EAB7726F45B286746DD850C4422C@RobinLaptopPC> <4AE37DA9.9070808@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: On Sat, Oct 24, 2009 at 4:20 PM, Bob Grumman wrote: > Robin Hamilton wrote: > >> You really want to throw down? I'd prefer to keep things a bit more >>> collegial and friendly, and I know the owner of the list prefers that. >>> >> >> Hey, hozabout we-all have a Flyting? Good poetic tradition that. Or is >> it just Scottish? >> >> Queensberry Rules -- must be in some sort of metrical form. >> >> His ear as sadly limp as his ... life >> To compensate, he beats his wife; >> But true to formalist tradition >> Only in a fixed position. >> > His brain, not ear, has ruint his life. > To compensate, he beats your wife; > but true to avant garde tradtion > never in a fixed position. > My wife could sip on everclear And spew forth flame to crisp his ear Her doing so might be a boon A roasting might improve his tune. And for all you idjits: The smoky Victorian drawing room Defined collegium in its way No fisticuffs when cholers bloom Instead, a poisoned canap? I hope that doesn't count as macaronic because I was going to wait for approval first. -- Uche Ogbuji http://uche.ogbuji.net Founding Partner, Zepheira http://zepheira.com Linked-in profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/ucheogbuji Articles: http://uche.ogbuji.net/tech/publications/ Friendfeed: http://friendfeed.com/uche Twitter: http://twitter.com/uogbuji -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From uche at ogbuji.net Sat Oct 24 20:38:27 2009 From: uche at ogbuji.net (Uche Ogbuji) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2009 18:38:27 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] i hurt amber tamblyn's feelings In-Reply-To: References: <6A35B995-065B-4695-91D1-55E15188AD59@myuw.net> <6486E085-28A2-4728-AD67-F282695D3D2A@myuw.net> Message-ID: Oh BTW. On Sat, Oct 24, 2009 at 6:06 PM, Uche Ogbuji wrote: > On Sat, Oct 24, 2009 at 2:36 PM, Jason Quackenbush wrote: > >> I'd prefer to keep things a bit more collegial and friendly, and I know >> the owner of the list prefers that. >> > > Friendly is nice,... > It's boxer's eye is underlined for emphasis Unmasked by lips its feral teeth Portend of pugilistic bliss. -- Uche Ogbuji http://uche.ogbuji.net Founding Partner, Zepheira http://zepheira.com Linked-in profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/ucheogbuji Articles: http://uche.ogbuji.net/tech/publications/ Friendfeed: http://friendfeed.com/uche Twitter: http://twitter.com/uogbuji -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From c.a.b.daly at gmail.com Sat Oct 24 22:17:45 2009 From: c.a.b.daly at gmail.com (Catherine Daly) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2009 19:17:45 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] i hurt amber tamblyn's feelings In-Reply-To: <6768ac830910241612k4b4560fbr1334d7dd3174b945@mail.gmail.com> References: <6768ac830910241612k4b4560fbr1334d7dd3174b945@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: I do want to point out that Tony and Jenny are Angelinos : ) -- All best, Catherine Daly c.a.b.daly at gmail.com From c.a.b.daly at gmail.com Sun Oct 25 01:37:18 2009 From: c.a.b.daly at gmail.com (Catherine Daly) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2009 22:37:18 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: Reading this Sunday, October 25: Tongues on Fire at Restaurant 3 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Tongues on Fire: A reading with Ms. Tamblyn, Mr. Constantine, Mr. Zaro, Ms. Maclay 4:00 - 6:00 P.M.????????????Sunday, October 25, 2009 Restaurant 3 8370 W. Third Street Los Angeles, CA 90048 (Near Orlando) ?Hope to see you !! -- All best, Catherine Daly c.a.b.daly at gmail.com From chris at chrislott.org Sun Oct 25 08:46:25 2009 From: chris at chrislott.org (Chris Lott) Date: Sun, 25 Oct 2009 06:46:25 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Among Philistines In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Now *that* is a fine reading and a fine poem. I'm amazed that the YouTube channel has survived-- not because of the bare breast controversy but because of inane copyright law. c On Sat, Oct 24, 2009 at 10:31 AM, wrote: > In a message dated 10/24/2009 11:15:56 AM Central Daylight Time, > grahamd at ripon.edu writes: > > Who's reading this, Sam? > > > > > > Nobody knows who the guy is, but he has an extensive bunch of poems on > YouTube.? I heard a rumor that Roger Ebert knows but ain't saying.? I'm > praying it's Terence Stamp. > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > From jforjames at aol.com Sun Oct 25 13:07:43 2009 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Sun, 25 Oct 2009 13:07:43 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] amber tamblyn sighting In-Reply-To: References: <6768ac830910241612k4b4560fbr1334d7dd3174b945@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <8CC23ACCCF3FCC2-3A6C-8465@webmail-d057.sysops.aol.com> I'm not sure I would have known her name a week ago, but this morning glancing thru the Parade section of the local papers, there was Amber's pic with a question about what's she doing now that her TV show (forgot name) was cancelled. The report says that Amber is traveling around doing readings (from Bang Ditto) and playing guitar. She's traveling and performing with her Mom, her best friend, the report says. Jason is a meanie. Finnegan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com Sun Oct 25 13:26:36 2009 From: robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com (Robin Hamilton) Date: Sun, 25 Oct 2009 17:26:36 -0000 Subject: [New-Poetry] amber tandoori sighting In-Reply-To: <8CC23ACCCF3FCC2-3A6C-8465@webmail-d057.sysops.aol.com> References: <6768ac830910241612k4b4560fbr1334d7dd3174b945@mail.gmail.com> <8CC23ACCCF3FCC2-3A6C-8465@webmail-d057.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: "Jason is a meanie." Yeah!!! Right On!!! Concur!!!! (Except I thought we were supposed to be couching personal abuse in some sort of metrical form? That's not even a couplet. Jason is a meany His brains are very teeny Smaller than a peeny * So says Mister Beany. * "peeny' [not to be confused with 'peedie'] is Scots for an apron. Yeah, I know it doesn't make sense, but at least it rhymes. Hey, writing this taught me something -- never use a three stress line [was I accidentally writing trochaic tetrameters? or Skeltonics?] as it's the absolute pits to work within. Come back iambic pentameter, all is forgiven.) Howzabout we form The Amber Tandoori Fan Club, follow her on Twitter, set up a Facebook thingie, and schedule five minutes of hate once a day directed at the Club antiMascot, Jason Meanie? Well, OK, *one minute then. Robin ----- Original Message ----- From: jforjames at aol.com To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Sunday, October 25, 2009 5:07 PM Subject: [New-Poetry] amber tamblyn sighting I'm not sure I would have known her name a week ago, but this morning glancing thru the Parade section of the local papers, there was Amber's pic with a question about what's she doing now that her TV show (forgot name) was cancelled. The report says that Amber is traveling around doing readings (from Bang Ditto) and playing guitar. She's traveling and performing with her Mom, her best friend, the report says. Jason is a meanie. Finnegan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From uche at ogbuji.net Sun Oct 25 13:31:48 2009 From: uche at ogbuji.net (Uche Ogbuji) Date: Sun, 25 Oct 2009 11:31:48 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] amber tandoori sighting In-Reply-To: References: <6768ac830910241612k4b4560fbr1334d7dd3174b945@mail.gmail.com> <8CC23ACCCF3FCC2-3A6C-8465@webmail-d057.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: On Sun, Oct 25, 2009 at 11:26 AM, Robin Hamilton < robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com> wrote: > Hey, writing this taught me something -- never use a three stress line > [was I accidentally writing trochaic tetrameters? or Skeltonics?] as it's > the absolute pits to work within. Come back iambic pentameter, all is > forgiven.) > Oh please gawd no! -- Uche Ogbuji http://uche.ogbuji.net Founding Partner, Zepheira http://zepheira.com Linked-in profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/ucheogbuji Articles: http://uche.ogbuji.net/tech/publications/ Friendfeed: http://friendfeed.com/uche Twitter: http://twitter.com/uogbuji -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From junction at earthlink.net Sun Oct 25 14:07:06 2009 From: junction at earthlink.net (Mark Weiss) Date: Sun, 25 Oct 2009 14:07:06 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] amber tamblyn sighting In-Reply-To: <8CC23ACCCF3FCC2-3A6C-8465@webmail-d057.sysops.aol.com> References: <6768ac830910241612k4b4560fbr1334d7dd3174b945@mail.gmail.com> <8CC23ACCCF3FCC2-3A6C-8465@webmail-d057.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: Psst. Spread the word: they're lovers. Not true, but good for business. There's a reason celebrities buy their own islands, poor dear. >The report says that Amber is traveling around doing readings (from >Bang Ditto) and playing guitar. She's traveling and performing with >her Mom, her best friend, the report says. > >Jason is a meanie. >Finnegan >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry Announcing The Whole Island: Six Decades of Cuban Poetry (University of California Press). Forthcoming in November 2009. http://go.ucpress.edu/WholeIsland From grahamd at ripon.edu Sun Oct 25 21:06:16 2009 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Sun, 25 Oct 2009 20:06:16 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: amber tamblyn sighting In-Reply-To: <8CC23ACCCF3FCC2-3A6C-8465@webmail-d057.sysops.aol.com> References: <6768ac830910241612k4b4560fbr1334d7dd3174b945@mail.gmail.com> <8CC23ACCCF3FCC2-3A6C-8465@webmail-d057.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <11354EE0-B2C2-4FB8-A1D2-C53B1285AD25@ripon.edu> I was at a Borders today (I have to travel 70 miles to the nearest town with a big bookstore) and spent a little time browsing in Amber's *Bang Ditto*. I didn't buy it, but would concur with what Sam Gwynn said: seen better, seen worse. For celebrity poets, she seems well above average, especially given her age. What I did buy was Sherman Alexie's new collection of poems. Anyone read that? Jason is many. ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.me.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== On Oct 25, 2009, at 12:07 PM, JforJames at aol.com wrote: > I'm not sure I would have known her name a week ago, but this > morning glancing thru the Parade section of the local papers, there > was Amber's pic with a question about what's she doing now that her > TV show (forgot name) was cancelled. The report says that Amber is > traveling around doing readings (from Bang Ditto) and playing > guitar. She's traveling and performing with her Mom, her best > friend, the report says. > > Jason is a meanie. > Finnegan > _______________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jfq at myuw.net Sun Oct 25 21:13:28 2009 From: jfq at myuw.net (Jason Quackenbush) Date: Sun, 25 Oct 2009 18:13:28 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: amber tamblyn sighting In-Reply-To: <11354EE0-B2C2-4FB8-A1D2-C53B1285AD25@ripon.edu> References: <6768ac830910241612k4b4560fbr1334d7dd3174b945@mail.gmail.com> <8CC23ACCCF3FCC2-3A6C-8465@webmail-d057.sysops.aol.com> <11354EE0-B2C2-4FB8-A1D2-C53B1285AD25@ripon.edu> Message-ID: <45BB3E7E-0205-46EA-8D14-2E1B7C55A852@myuw.net> Call me Legion for we are Manny Ramirez. I do agree that she seems to have grown quite a bit since her earlier efforts, and the poem she "wrote about" me as Tad pointed out does have some nice moments in it. Let me be clear tho, "I did not have sexual intercourse with that woman." On Oct 25, 2009, at 6:06 PM, David Graham wrote: > I was at a Borders today (I have to travel 70 miles to the nearest > town with a big bookstore) and spent a little time browsing in > Amber's *Bang Ditto*. I didn't buy it, but would concur with what > Sam Gwynn said: seen better, seen worse. For celebrity poets, she > seems well above average, especially given her age. > > What I did buy was Sherman Alexie's new collection of poems. Anyone > read that? > > Jason is many. > > > ======================================== > David Graham > grahamd at ripon.edu > > Home Page: > http://web.me.com/drjazz > > Poetry Library: > http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html > ========================================== > > > > > On Oct 25, 2009, at 12:07 PM, JforJames at aol.com wrote: > >> I'm not sure I would have known her name a week ago, but this >> morning glancing thru the Parade section of the local papers, there >> was Amber's pic with a question about what's she doing now that her >> TV show (forgot name) was cancelled. The report says that Amber is >> traveling around doing readings (from Bang Ditto) and playing >> guitar. She's traveling and performing with her Mom, her best >> friend, the report says. >> >> Jason is a meanie. >> Finnegan >> _______________________________________________ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From Opus40-01 at opus40.org Sun Oct 25 21:30:45 2009 From: Opus40-01 at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Sun, 25 Oct 2009 21:30:45 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: amber tamblyn sighting In-Reply-To: <45BB3E7E-0205-46EA-8D14-2E1B7C55A852@myuw.net> References: <6768ac830910241612k4b4560fbr1334d7dd3174b945@mail.gmail.com> <8CC23ACCCF3FCC2-3A6C-8465@webmail-d057.sysops.aol.com> <11354EE0-B2C2-4FB8-A1D2-C53B1285AD25@ripon.edu> <45BB3E7E-0205-46EA-8D14-2E1B7C55A852@myuw.net> Message-ID: <4AE4FBC5.8090909@opus40.org> Too bad...she's kinda cute. Jason Quackenbush wrote: > Call me Legion for we are Manny Ramirez. > > I do agree that she seems to have grown quite a bit since her earlier > efforts, and the poem she "wrote about" me as Tad pointed out does > have some nice moments in it. > > Let me be clear tho, "I did not have sexual intercourse with that woman." > > On Oct 25, 2009, at 6:06 PM, David Graham wrote: > >> I was at a Borders today (I have to travel 70 miles to the nearest >> town with a big bookstore) and spent a little time browsing in >> Amber's *Bang Ditto*. I didn't buy it, but would concur with what >> Sam Gwynn said: seen better, seen worse. For celebrity poets, she >> seems well above average, especially given her age. >> >> What I did buy was Sherman Alexie's new collection of poems. Anyone >> read that? >> >> Jason is many. >> >> >> ======================================== >> David Graham >> grahamd at ripon.edu >> >> Home Page: >> http://web.me.com/drjazz >> >> Poetry Library: >> http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html >> ========================================== >> >> >> >> >> On Oct 25, 2009, at 12:07 PM, JforJames at aol.com wrote: >> >>> I'm not sure I would have known her name a week ago, but this >>> morning glancing thru the Parade section of the local papers, there >>> was Amber's pic with a question about what's she doing now that her >>> TV show (forgot name) was cancelled. The report says that Amber is >>> traveling around doing readings (from Bang Ditto) and playing >>> guitar. She's traveling and performing with her Mom, her best >>> friend, the report says. >>> >>> Jason is a meanie. >>> Finnegan >>> _______________________________________________ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Tad Richards Read my NY Writing Careers Examiner column today! http://www.examiner.com/x-2862-NY-Writing-Careers-Examiner http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ From jfq at myuw.net Sun Oct 25 22:06:12 2009 From: jfq at myuw.net (Jason Quackenbush) Date: Sun, 25 Oct 2009 19:06:12 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: amber tamblyn sighting In-Reply-To: <4AE4FBC5.8090909@opus40.org> References: <6768ac830910241612k4b4560fbr1334d7dd3174b945@mail.gmail.com> <8CC23ACCCF3FCC2-3A6C-8465@webmail-d057.sysops.aol.com> <11354EE0-B2C2-4FB8-A1D2-C53B1285AD25@ripon.edu> <45BB3E7E-0205-46EA-8D14-2E1B7C55A852@myuw.net> <4AE4FBC5.8090909@opus40.org> Message-ID: yeah. le sigh... On Oct 25, 2009, at 6:30 PM, TheOldMole wrote: > Too bad...she's kinda cute. > > Jason Quackenbush wrote: >> Call me Legion for we are Manny Ramirez. >> >> I do agree that she seems to have grown quite a bit since her >> earlier efforts, and the poem she "wrote about" me as Tad pointed >> out does have some nice moments in it. >> >> Let me be clear tho, "I did not have sexual intercourse with that >> woman." >> >> On Oct 25, 2009, at 6:06 PM, David Graham wrote: >> >>> I was at a Borders today (I have to travel 70 miles to the nearest >>> town with a big bookstore) and spent a little time browsing in >>> Amber's *Bang Ditto*. I didn't buy it, but would concur with what >>> Sam Gwynn said: seen better, seen worse. For celebrity poets, >>> she seems well above average, especially given her age. >>> >>> What I did buy was Sherman Alexie's new collection of poems. >>> Anyone read that? >>> >>> Jason is many. >>> >>> >>> ======================================== >>> David Graham >>> grahamd at ripon.edu >>> >>> Home Page: >>> http://web.me.com/drjazz >>> >>> Poetry Library: >>> http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html >>> ========================================== >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Oct 25, 2009, at 12:07 PM, JforJames at aol.com wrote: >>> >>>> I'm not sure I would have known her name a week ago, but this >>>> morning glancing thru the Parade section of the local papers, >>>> there was Amber's pic with a question about what's she doing now >>>> that her TV show (forgot name) was cancelled. The report says >>>> that Amber is traveling around doing readings (from Bang Ditto) >>>> and playing guitar. She's traveling and performing with her Mom, >>>> her best friend, the report says. >>>> >>>> Jason is a meanie. >>>> Finnegan >>>> _______________________________________________ >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> New-Poetry mailing list >>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> > > -- > Tad Richards > Read my NY Writing Careers Examiner column today! > http://www.examiner.com/x-2862-NY-Writing-Careers-Examiner > > http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ > http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Mon Oct 26 02:03:21 2009 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2009 07:03:21 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] happy birthdays from the Writer's Almanac Message-ID: <4b65c2d70910252303u63cb3efo1f0013565ff441c7@mail.gmail.com> to Mahalia Jackson and to Hillary Clinton, plus a special bonus: I Had Been a Polar Explorer by Mark Strand I had been a polar explorer in my youth and spent countless days and nights freezing in one blank place and then another. Eventually, I quit my travels and stayed at home, and there grew within me a sudden excess of desire, as if a brilliant stream of light of the sort one sees within a diamond were passing through me. I filled page after page with visions of what I had witnessed? groaning seas of pack ice, giant glaciers, and the windswept white of icebergs. Then, with nothing more to say, I stopped and turned my sights on what was near. Almost at once, a man wearing a dark coat and broad-brimmed hat appeared under the trees in front of my house. The way he stared straight ahead and stood, not shifting his weight, letting his arms hang down at his side, made me think that I knew him. But when I raised my hand to say hello, he took a step back, turned away, and started to fade as longing fades until nothing is left of it. "I Had Been a Polar Explorer" by Mark Strand, from *Man and Camel*. ? Alfred A. Knopf, 2008. Reprinted with permission. (buy now) -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jeff.newberry at gmail.com Mon Oct 26 10:22:16 2009 From: jeff.newberry at gmail.com (Jeff Newberry) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2009 10:22:16 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poems by Others: Craig Arnold Message-ID: <731bb17a0910260722u42a49bf1wd7712dccc516efbb@mail.gmail.com> Uncouplings Craig Arnold There is no I in *teamwork* but there is a *two maker* there is no I in *together* but there is a *got three* *a get to her* the I in *relationship* is the *heart I slip on* *a lithe prison* in all *communication* we *count on a mimic* *(I am not uncomic)* our *listening skills* are *silent killings* there is no we in *marriage* but a *grim area* there is an I in *family* also *my fail* Best, Jeff Newberry -- You cannot tell people what to do, you can only tell them parables; and that is what art really is, particular stories of particular people and experience, from which each according to his own immediate and peculiar needs may draw his own conclusion. --W.H. Auden -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Mon Oct 26 12:50:50 2009 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2009 12:50:50 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Tony Harrison's literary heroes Message-ID: <8CC24739BE23ED6-751C-14E7C@webmail-m021.sysops.aol.com> http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2009/oct/24/tony-harrison-speech-pen-pinter The poetic gaze Tony Harrison, winner of the PEN/Pinter prize, on his literary heroes And my house is full of more important monuments to poets: their books. There are thousands of them, from all ages and in many languages. There are ancient authors, especially the Greek tragedians in hundreds of annotated editions, there are Czech poets, Polish poets, Russian poets, Italian, Spanish, Greek, South American, French, Sanskrit, Japanese, Chinese, etc, etc, etc . . . Poets who have been or are in prison, poets who have been murdered, poets whose books have been burned. There are signed copies by friends, like Wole Soyinka, with whom I did shows when we were both students at Leeds, whose crossing of the Nigerian junta resulted in his solitary confinement. Partly because of him I spent four years in Nigeria. After Africa I spent a year and a half in Prague, and I got to know that wonderful poet and scientist Miroslav Holub whose signed books I also have. He had long experience of surveillance and censorship. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Mon Oct 26 12:53:18 2009 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2009 12:53:18 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] exhibit at Wellesley College merges poetry and printmaking Message-ID: <8CC2473F3BEA908-751C-14F4B@webmail-m021.sysops.aol.com> http://www.dailynewstranscript.com/arts/x880642941/Poetry-plus-printmaking-at-Wellesleys-Davis-Museum -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- WELLESLEY ? Except for William Blake, few major poets have illustrated their own verse with memorable prints. But now, an often gorgeous exhibit at Wellesley College merges poetry and printmaking to create an enhanced medium that might be called visual verse or poetic prints. Bringing together 42 poets and artists, "21 Etchings and Poems" pleases the senses by unifying words and images in lovely and sometimes startling ways. Displayed in the Davis Museum and Cultural Center, the show combines vivid prints and thoughtful poems by artists and poets who deserve to be better-known today. Curated by Elaine Mehalakes, it showcases a complete set of 21 prints from a groundbreaking project initiated by artist Peter Grippe, director of the prestigious Atelier 17 print workshop in New York. Starting around 1950 he convinced 21 distinguished artists such as Willem de Kooning and Franz Kline to collaborate with an equal number of notable poets like Dylan Thomas and William Carlos Williams in a project that eventually took 10 years to complete. VIEW & LISTEN here... http://www.davismuseum.wellesley.edu/exhibitions/exhibitions_etchings_poems.html -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chris at chrislott.org Mon Oct 26 16:14:13 2009 From: chris at chrislott.org (Chris Lott) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2009 12:14:13 -0800 Subject: Sherman Alexi [was Re: [New-Poetry] Re: amber tamblyn sighting] Message-ID: On Sun, Oct 25, 2009 at 5:06 PM, David Graham wrote: > > What I did buy was Sherman Alexie's new collection of poems. ?Anyone read > that? Didn't realize he had a new collection... I thought it was a collection of short stories! Time to hit the bookstore. What do you think of it? c From jforjames at aol.com Mon Oct 26 20:13:21 2009 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2009 20:13:21 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] MFA v MFA Message-ID: <8CC24B16D1526E9-13C-9DA0@webmail-d056.sysops.aol.com> http://www.wcax.com/Global/story.asp?S=11383558# CONCORD, N.H. (AP) - A federal judge says New England College in Henniker, N.H., may proceed with its lawsuit accusing a poet of stealing 1 of its master's programs and its faculty and recreating it at a rival school in New Jersey. New England College is suing Anne Marie Macari - the former director of its low-residency Master's of Fine Arts in Poetry program - and Drew University, where Macari now directs a similar program. Drew University asked U.S. District Court Judge Joseph Laplante to either dismiss the case or move it to New Jersey. Laplante denied both motions. The judge says even though no one from Drew ever came to New Hampshire, Macari was acting on Drew's behalf and the school authorized or at least knew about her actions in New Hampshire. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Mon Oct 26 20:15:12 2009 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2009 20:15:12 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: Poem of the Week- Rodney Jones In-Reply-To: <20091026194130.28666@web003.roc2.bluetie.com> References: <20091026194130.28666@web003.roc2.bluetie.com> Message-ID: <8CC24B1AF5C6FE9-13C-9E12@webmail-d056.sysops.aol.com> Subject: Poem of the Week- Rodney Jones Poem Of The Week 10-26-09 Rodney Jones Remembering Fire Almost as thought the eggs run and leap back into their shells And the shells seal behind them, and the willows call back their driftwood, And the oceans move predictably into deltas, into the hidden oubliettes in the sides of mountains, And all the emptied bodies are filled, and, flake by flake, the snow rises out of the coal piles, And the mothers cry out terribly as the children enter their bodies, And the freeway to Birmingham is peeled off the scar tissue of fields, The way it occurs to me, the last thing first, never as in life, The unexpected rush, but this time I stand on the cold hill and watch Fire ripen from the seedbed of ashes, from the maze of torured glass, Molten nails and hinges, the flames life each plank into place And the walls resume their high standing, the many walls, and the rafters Float upward, the ceiling and roof, smoke ribbons into the wet cushions, And my father hurries back through the front door with the box Of important papers, carrying as much as he can save, All of his deeds and policies, the clock, the few pieces of silver; He places me in the shape of my own body in the feather mattress And go down into the soft wings, the mute and implacable country Of sleep, holding all of this back, drifting toward the unborn. The Bridge These fulsome nouns, these abbreviations of air, Are not real, but two of them may fit a small man I knew in high school who, seeing an accident, Stopped one day, leapt over a mangled guardrail, Took a mother and two children from a flooded creek, And lifted them back to the world. In the dark, I do not know, there is a saying, but he pulled Them each up a tree, which was not the tree of life But a stooped Alabama willow, flew three times >From the edge of that narrow bridge as though >From the selfless shore of a miracle, and came back To the false name of a real man, Arthur Peavahouse. He could sink a set shot from thirty feet. One night I watched him field a punt and scat behind a wall Of blockers like a butterfly hovering an outhouse. He did not love the crashing of bodies. He Did not know that mother and her three children But went down one huge breath to their darkness. There is no name for that place, you cannot Find them following a white chain of bubbles Down the muddy water of these words. But I saw Where the rail sheared from the bridge-which is Not real since it was replaced by a wider bridge. Arthur Peavahouse weighed a hundred and twenty pounds. Because he ran well in the broken field, men Said he was afraid. I remember him best At a laboratory table, holding a test tube Up to the light, arranging equations like facts, But the school is air over a parking lot. You Are too far from that valley for it to come All the way true, although it is not real. Not two miles from that bridge, one afternoon In March, in 1967, one of my great-uncles, Clyde Maples, a farmer and a commissioner of roads, And his neighbor, whose name I have forgotten, Pulled more than a hundred crappies off three Stickups in that creek-though the creek is not Real and the valley is a valley of words. You Would need Clyde Maples to find Arthur Peavahouse, And you would need Clyde Maples' side yard Of roadgraders and bulldozers to get even part Of Clyde Maples, need him like the crappies Needed those stickups in the creek to tell them Where they were. Every spring that creek Darkens with the runoff of hog lots and barns, Spreading sloughs, obscuring sorghum and corn. On blind backwater full schoolbuses roll Down buried roads. Arthur Peavahouse was smart To run from the huge tackles and unthinking To throw himself into that roiling water And test the reality of his arms and lungs. Many times I have thought everything I said Or thought was a lie, moving some blame or credit By changing a name, even the color of a lip or bush, But whenever I think of the lie that stands for truth, I think of Arthur Peavahouse, and not his good name, But his deciding, as that car settled to the bottom, To break free and live for at least one more moment Upward toward light and the country of words While the other child, the one he could not save, Shrugged behind him in the unbreakable harness. Rain on Tin If I ever get over the bodies of women, I am going to think of the rain, of waiting under the eaves of an old house at that moment when it takes a form like fog. It makes the mountain vanish. Then the smell of rain, which is the smell of the earth a plow turns up, only condensed and refined. Almost fifty years since thunder rolled and the nerves woke like secret agents under the skin. Brazil is where I wanted to live. The border is not far from here. Lonely and grateful would be my way to end, and something for the pain please, a little purity to sand the rough edges, a slow downpour from the Dark Ages, a drizzle from the Pleistocene. As I dream of the rain's long body, I will eliminate from mind all the qualities that rain deletes and then I will be primed to study rain's power, the first drops lightly hallowing, but now and again a great gallop of the horse of rain or an explosion of orange-green light. A simple radiance, it requires no discipline. Before I knew women, I knew the lonely pleasures of rain. The mist and then the clearing. I will listen where the lightning thrills the rooster up a willow, and my whole life flowing until I have no choice, only the rain, and I step into it. The Mosquito I see the mosquito kneeling on the soft underside of my arm, kneeling Like a fruitpicker, kneeling like an old woman With the proboscis of her prayer buried in the idea of God, And I know we shall not speak with the aliens And that peace will not happen in my life, not unless It is in the burnt oil spreading across the surfaces of ponds, in the dark Egg rafts clotting and the wiggletails expiring like batteries. Bring a little alcohol and a little balm For these poppies planted by the Queen of Neptune. In her photographs she is bearded and spurred, embellished five hundred times, Her modular legs crouching, her insufferable head unlocking To lower the razor-edge of its tubes, and she is there in the afternoon When the wind gives up the spirit of cleanliness And there rises from the sound the brackish oyster and squid smell of creation. I lie down in the sleeping bag sodden with rain. Nights with her, I am loved for myself, for the succulent Flange of my upper lip, the twin bellies of my eyelids. She adores the easy, the soft. She picks the tenderest blossoms of insomnia. Mornings while the jackhammer rips the pavement outside my window, While the sanitation workers bang the cans against the big truck and shout to each other over the motor, I watch her strut like an udder with my blood, Imagining the luminous pick descending into Trotsky's skull and the eleven days I waited for the cold chill, nightmare, and nightsweat of malaria; Imagining the mating call in the vibrations of her wings, And imagining, in the simple knot of her ganglia, How she thrills to my life, how she sings for the harvest. -from Salvation Blues, Rodney Jones' Selected Poems, 2006 Rodney Jones has distinguished himself among his contemporaries as a craftsman of the modern lyric. His poems are rooted in the rural South of his youth, where, as he once told Contemporary Authors, he "loved the language then, and I love it now"?the language he heard as he "grew up in a rural section of Alabama that resembled much of the present third world, essentially feudal, agrarian, unelectrified." He added, "Many of our neighbors were illiterate, but books were the alternative and, even among the illiterate, there was a vital oral tradition: stories, jokes, music, memorized scripture." Jones, who tunes his ear to the dying oral culture of Alabama, draws upon it to delve into his memory and the historical past as touchstones for his poetry. The Story They Told Us of Light, chosen by Elizabeth Bishop for the Associated Writing Programs Award series, has "the function of the imagination" as its central theme, according to Tim Summerlin in the Dictionary of Literary Biography. Yet, Jones seems always in his poems to be seeking a language that will express the past, whether it reflects the personal or the natural, giving rise, wrote Summerlin, to "that most familiar of post-Romantic themes, the power of imagination and the validity of its vision." In The Unborn Jones appears to be "rearranging reality, always making imaginative leaps," noted Daniel Guillory in Library Journal. The poet accomplishes this by shifting from the specific to the general, from rural Southern towns to the world at large, so that The Unborn succeeds best through rich textures generated by the warp and weft of these dichotomies. This is evidenced in the opening lines of "Alma," where Jones tells the reader that "Sometimes in late summer I come to/ the husks of cicadas. In death/ they are rooted in the scaly bark/ of the pine,/ become their own coffins,/ these hard and glossy shells/ that had contained/ the secrets of flight./ That's why I like it in the South./ The afterlife is with you/ all the time." Transparent Gestures is arranged in four thematic sections, including character sketches, personal and familial meditations, intellectual views of life, and occasions for grief, commented Summerlin. Jones meditates upon mathematics, science, academics, animals, and trees, each subject which brings him to conclude that "The place of poetry is darker, and the unremitting/ test of love and poetry/ Plies its single-minded questions: What, if anything,/ will last?" Apocalyptic Narrative and Other Poems finds Jones reveling in the rich and diverse opportunities language affords in order to discourse upon the paltry cultural details that make up his vision of an apocalypse. So it is that he writes of bomb shelters, nursing homes, shopping malls, and of the poor who arrive at "Club St. Vincent de Paul" where Jones comes "as a tourist to their woe." Yet, it is Jones's "sympathy, his intelligent wholeheartedness," noted David Baker in Poetry, that is his "most remarkable gift." Whether spinning narratives about the old and infirm who sit in wheelchairs along the walls of nursing homes "like plants in pots," or about a visit to a poultry processing plant staffed by a "proletariat chorus line, winking, emoting cool/ or hard-to-get, pregnant high school dropouts/ Tattooed Grandmothers," Jones makes it clear that there is a paradox in that "our history, our lives, and our language are better described as a field of ruptures, dissociations, and misrepresentations than as a linear or narrative continuum," remarked Baker. Jonathan Holden, writing in American Book Review, called the title poem one of "high seriousness and ambition," and suggests that it "be considered alongside poems like 'The Wasteland,' 'Sunday Morning,' and 'Howl.'" Barry Goldensohn in Contemporary Poets found that in Apocalyptic Narrative "the ordering mind is passionately engaged . . . , even in its memorable comedy. There is a serious pursuit of wisdom in this richly musical poetry." Things That Happen Once: New Poems saw Jones returning to a four-part structure: "Last Myths of the Pioneers," "The Troubles That Women Start Are Men," "Close Relations," "and Elemental Powers." In these poems Jones "employs control in order to evoke, not tame, the chaos of experience," said a Publishers Weekly reviewer. His subjects include Coca-Cola, murders, sex, car crashes, and, as Donna Seaman noted in Booklist, the time "when television arrived in his remote Alabama valley, when civilization intruded in a big way and 'the lights spread everywhere.'" In 1999 Jones produced Elegy for the Southern Drawl, a collection the title poem of which was called "charmingly anecdotal" by Poetry contributor F. D. Reeve. Reeve added that the poems' sheer accessibility may work against the book as a whole: "What is the import of such eminently readable poetry?" the critic asked. "Is it 'mainstream'? Is it demotic? Who is its audience?" Indeed, Reeve pointed to one poem, "Doing Laundry," where a man who takes on a washing machine and finds new respect for women's work, as "a contemporaneously PC [politically correct] view." Throughout the pages of 2002's Kingdom of the Instant, Jones "is constantly aware of his role as curator of the Southern gothic," according to a Publishers Weekly contributor, though "he's happier to dispense sympathy than disgust." The poet's "centrifugal vision," in the opinion of Houston Chronicle critic Robert Phillips, "embraces poems about gay-bashers, undertakers, lower-middle-class white Southern males, men who murder and get capital punishment, bootleggers, farmers, shellshocked veterans and more." Thus do the poems describe catfish hunts and cattle auctions; then the bar is raised to explore the aftermath of human death as a mortician, who has restored the body of a young drunk-driving fatality, hears, "You've done a wonderful job/Only Ronnie's hair was brown, not red." "After several twists and lyrical turns on the subject of death and our rituals of grieving," wrote Richard Newman in the St. Louis Post-Dispatch, "the poems ends with the kind of lines only Rodney Jones can write: 'He looked in death placid and composed as he had never been in life/ as if he had resumed thinking/ the thought he was thinking before being born.'" Newman characterized Kingdom of the Instant as "generally less accessible than previous works but certainly no less ambitious." Jones continues to be praised for penning richly musical poetry crafted by his sensitivity to "form, sound, rhythm, syntactic balance and contrast," explained Summerlin. As American poetry continues to reflect upon its past, Jones is perceived as a distinctive voice, a reminder that the past is always alive and always present. In Baker's view, Jones remains "one of the best, most generous, and most brilliantly readable poets currently making poems in America." Poetry of the Instance, Poetry of the Instant: A Conversation with Rodney Jones by Andrew Mcfadyen-Ketchum Finalist for the Pulitzer Prize, winner of the 1989 National Book Critics Circle Award, recipient of a Guggenheim Fellowship, the Peter I.B. Lavan Award from the Academy of American Poets, the Jean Stein Award from the American Academy and Institute of Arts and Letters, a Southeast Booksellers Association Award, and a Harper Lee Award, you are a poet familiar with success. But 2007 was a particularly good to you. Your recent collection, Salvation Blues: One Hundred Poems, 1985-2005 was short listed for the International Griffin Poetry Prize and, of course, received the Kingsley Tufts Poetry Award for 2007. It?s hard to imagine being in such a position in contemporary American poetry. What?s it like? I?m getting old, laminated, bronzed and stuffed. Neruda, possibly the most romantic poet of the twentieth century, wanted to see his poetry as a work like plumbing or carpentry, less a profession than a job that he felt fortunate to do. I keep that in mind when I receive rejections or awards. Not to say that rejections don?t depress me or that I am immune to the ego-jacking side-effects of awards, but the work itself is the thing, the transformations and the discoveries?the little bonuses, William Stafford used to say. Someone, a philosopher, perhaps it was Kierkegaard, had it that artists were miserable people who were doomed to a cycle in which they attempted to create perfect selves in their art only to be thrown back on their imperfect lives. My life is not perfect, but it is a very good one as lives go. Dan Chiasson's review of Salvation Blues (Poetry September 2006) says that ?Unless you think that new poetry cannot be narrative (in the old-fashioned, spell-casting, consecutive way) and cannot be accessible (its action intelligible at first or second reading), Jones is a poet worth taking very seriously indeed.? Chiasson (and others who deem your work praiseworthy) seems to have hit the nail on the head now that you?ve reached such high critical acclaim. I?m wondering, where does Rodney Jones go from here? You?ve published eight collections of poetry and seem to be in the prime of your career. What?s next? I?m wondering that, too. I have never been able to conceive of an entire book until it arrives, line by line, poem by poem, and each book has come to me differently. The Unborn was exploration, pure and simple accommodation to wonder and the sensuality of language. Transparent Gestures challenged me. I wrote it one poem at a time, so nothing overlapped, an act of will. Then I got tired of working that way. Apocalyptic Narrative began as automatic writing, wild drafts, easy on the front side, much harder to revise. Things That Happen Once is mostly poetic translations of journal entries that were intended to be loose drafts of poems--I wrote the journal entries with a very conscious emphasis on rhythm, image, and the need to make original language?I had thought to make prose poems, but when I went to revise?and there were several hundred pages of journal entries?the rhythms seemed to dictate lines. In Elegy for The Southern Drawl, I worked in two modes: one very formal, and the other loose and conversational. I wish that I had spent another year with Kingdom of The Instant. Of all the books that I have published, that one disappoints me the most. The new poems in Salvation Blues were tough to write because I felt that I was defining a period of work. When a book is finished, I feel that I am finished with that way of working, tired of it, exhausted. Strains go from book to book because I continue to work on poems for years if they remain provocative, but, essentially, I prefer the fresh project, the experiment. My mother-in-law, Urania Zepeda, described a politician she disliked by saying, ?Son-of-a-bitch talks like he doesn?t know the next word that he?s going to say.? For me, that seems the necessary first step, and perhaps another way of expressing what Stevens was after when he commended, ?the mind in the act of finding what will suffice.? It?s interesting that you mention politics. Poetry, like politics, always seems to exist in this realm of extremely high expectations. I think this may have something to do with its ?usefulness? or with the question of it?s usefulness, that is. Many of your poems address this issue of the value of poetry. ?A Defense Of Poetry? reconciles the differences between you? moved to poetry by ?a semi loaded with bridge girders,? the academics? governed by ?abstract identity?authorless, quoted/and italicized,? and to the working-class you grew up with and to whom you seem to apologize to for being a poet in earlier poems like "Mental Sorrows" and "Not See Again." "A Defense" seems comfortable with verse and the nature of its ?La-la oblivion? which makes ?a little dent like a dart.? Do you feel as if you owe something to "working-class" America? Have you, in some ways, grown out of this guilt? Obviously, I am a number of years away from having done hard physical work for a living, but as a boy and young man, I worked constantly, on farms, in factories, and on construction crews. As a consequence, I see poetry in the realpolitik light of the people who do that kind of work. The connection is both deep and conflicted. These conflicts diminish as I age, but they continue and function as scales, as one of the ways that I weigh poetry, my own and others. As for questioning the art, why should we not be doing that? Plato is dead, and someone has to carry on. People who look closely at the American poetry of our time closely find a supple and diverse art, not just an educational commodity. What I find particularly striking about your work is that even though your later poems (like "A Defense") display a more advanced reflective quality than earlier poems, your voice has never quavered; that metered, musical, observant narration is present throughout. Sure, you shift back and forth. You have a wide range of gears and velocities in which you work. But, if you look at the first poem of the collection and the last poem of the collection, it?s pretty clear you haven?t sacrificed much of your original vision. Would you agree with this reading of your work? If so, how have you managed to do so consistently and over such a long period of time? After my first book, The Story They Told Us of Light, was published, I was not happy with the book or, for that matter, with the poems that I was writing at the time. Then Leon Stokesbury, who was in town giving a reading, told me that publishing a second book was much more difficult than a first. For some reason, this struck me as a liberation. Suddenly it was clear to me that none of the poetry mattered unless I approached it as something that I would not take back. Whether it took twenty years or a few months did not matter. I do not imagine that I am a better poet than I was in 1982, only a different one. Ultimately, luck plays a part in the making of poetry, but I hold to two notions that do not have to do with luck: first, that craft should never be cheated on; secondly, that poetry should reflect character. That notion seems pretty accurate to me. Would you agree with people like Chiasson who describe your work as ?accessible?? While I agree with this characterization, when I think of accessible poetry I don?t think, ?Oh yeah, Rodney Jones.? It?s hard for me to read a poem like ?Contempt? or ?The Bridge? and think "accessible." Maybe this is because your poetry often works on two distinct narrative levels: the narrative of the instance and the narrative of the instant. Meaning, we have a narrative of some sort, and we have an inner voice that seemingly waits for no command or order to appear; it is simply there, screaming in the background. I?m thinking of poems like ?The First Birth,? ?Doing Laundry,? and ?On Pickiness? to name a few. I agree with your point. The narratives tend to be double-narratives, which not only involve a story, but also an idea of the story, or a philosophical counterpoint that sort of tags along and pipes up now and then, and yes, this does occur of a natural compulsion as opposed to a deductive poetics. Perhaps the faith that abides in such a narrative sense is that the story exists without the poem and that the poem only touches it at tangents. In a sense the object of many of my poems is less to tell a story than to give shape to a philosophical meditation. I do not think that there are many purely narrative poems working in our language. In the last few years, Ann Carson has written a couple that I think are brilliant: one, a book length work, Autobiography in Red; and another wonderful poem, ?The Glass Essay,? which is sort of a novella. My old teacher and friend, Fred Chappell?s four-book narrative sequence, Midquest, is no less than a masterpiece. But for the most part, the signal narratives of our time have been narratives of consciousness?a number of poems by C.K. Williams come to mind, and I would also include the finest work by Jorie Graham, who is not usually seen as a narrative poet, but who is surely at her best when writing about the consciousness that flickers from instant to instant. When I read your work, I?m oftentimes reminded of an interview with Phillip Levine who, when asked, said one of his great influences was Chaucer because he incorporated real, everyday people into verse. This is another consistency in your work. Poems like ?Pussy,? ?Romance of The Poor? and ?Whisper Fight at the Peck Funeral Home? are separated by 20 years of poetry and, yet, address American life with the same love, compassion and, perhaps, envy. Is this where your poetry comes from? From this compassion; this envy? Do you consider it an honor, a duty to extol these figures from your past and present? The source is not necessarily or purely literary. I grew up four miles outside of a town of 600, and by the time I was thirteen, I knew most of those people. My father knew all of them and others for miles around, men and women, black and white, and when he met someone that he did not know, it was not long before he made a connection with someone that they both knew. In fact, most of the talk in the country was about people, and not just the living or the recently dead. There was a kind of web, a legending and a curiosity that enclosed us. I take that with me, and I imagine that the longer cultural habit does go back to Chaucer, but not just through books and not just through language. The cultural habit, which, anthropologists tell us, passes from one generation to another and survives the journey from one language another, and the reading come together, I think, in very interesting ways. Derek Walcott?s fondness for combining extraordinary high-register diction comes as much from Africa as it does from his reading of English literature. Marquez?s supernatural imagery attaches to both the oral tradition of the Columbian countryside and the poetry of Andre Breton. But all of these influences, conscious or unconscious, are socialbehavior and less valuable than the writer?s individual presence on the page. One thing I love about your poems is how you inflate a small (local) subject, instance, or idea. Like the pigs of ?For The Eating of Swine? transformed into the ?dolphins of the backyard? or yourself as a baby in ?Beautiful Child? becoming ?a satellite in the orbit of their affections.? Do you write poetry like this with a smile on your face? Several years ago, after I gave a reading at a college in Georgia, a student asked, ?Does a poet have to be his own biggest fan?? At first, I was taken aback, but it is at least in the territory of a great question. A poet?s love of poetry is everything. Roland Barthes calls it ?joissance,? which relates, in my mind at least, to both play and sexual eroticism. It does not relate to subject matter. It is visceral, palpable, essentially ineffable. Surely, Gerald Stern?s ?Soap,? moves me as much as any poem that I know of that relates to the holocaust. It is a deeply heartbreaking poem, and yet what a great sad joy one feels in the making of the poem, in its realization of rhythm and vision. That sense of the poet?s pleasure in the work carries across languages and seems a creaturely relish. I think of how happy Basho must have been as he wrote The Narrow Road to The Interior, of Neruda in ?Ode to Socks,? and Transtromer in ?Schubertiana,? of Roethke in ?Meditations of an Old Woman,? of Plath in ?The Tulips, of ?Hass in ?Meditation at Lagunitas,? of Pinsky in ?The Shirt,? or Hirsch in ?Wild Gratitude,? Heaney in nearly every word. Joy. My answer to the student in Georgia would be this: a poet does not have to be his biggest fan, but a poet must be utterly convinced, delighted by, and absorbed in the language of the poem, whether that poem take the form of an elegy or a joke. We?ve talked a lot so far about the language of your poetry. But a lot of the work you do is with the image. I notice that you oftentimes eschew the expected image or the typical way of constructing an image. Many of your poems make an attempt to describe something visually but become almost immediately distracted by some minute quality which shifts the subject of the poem to some other locale. If we think of the image as the construction of a visual, this constant shift could be considered a failure. But, then again, we?d have to define that word: image. How would you define it? Image. Let?s see. Evidence? Isomorphs? Fillers for pentimento and palimpsest? The image on the page, the verbal icon, is different from the image in a painting or a cinematic image, or the thing in the field, or even the image in the brain. An image that has great power in stand-up comedy may fall flat in a poem. Description in writing is not just a servant of sensory impression, but a mode of characterization and a sometimes unwitting agent of metaphor. Ezra Pound said so many things about images that one can wonder about for a lifetime. ?An emotional and an intellectual complex in an instant of time,? he wrote and, ?The natural image is always the adequate symbol.? The verbal image, I believe, points toward that gap between the things that we know and can bring into language and the stuff the deeper autonomous brain knows but does not share with the language making part of the brain. And in a much more abstract way, the poem itself is an image of language. I have a special connection with ?Refusing To Baptize A Son.? I wasn?t baptized, but my sister, born five years earlier than myself before my parents solidified their agnosticism, was. This separation between us has always bothered me a lot like the undercurrent of regret the father expresses to the unbaptized son in this poem. A religious vein runs throughout Salvation Blues in poems like ?Refusing,? ?Life Of Sundays,? and ?Decadence,? to name a few. Obviously, you were raised up around Christianity, particularly of the Protestant variety, but I wouldn?t say that religion is an overt presence in your work. Do you find yourself thinking of religion/spirituality as a subject of poetry or does it emerge via the writing process? When I was five, I remember asking my mother where God came from? As you know that?s a big question for southerners, where someone comes from. My mother told me that no one knew. She said that as long as I lived in her house, I would go to church twice on Sundays and also attend Wednesday night prayer meetings, and that I should listen, but it was important not just to go along with other people, that I would have to determine what I thought about God on my own. She said that I should trust what I knew in my heart, and make up my own mind as an adult. Perhaps that is a freer attitude than most parents want to give their children, but I consider that freedom one of the greatest gifts of my life. Religion seems neither a subject nor an element that arises as a part of the writing process, but a transcendent question. One of my favorite writers who deals with religion is Mark Twain. My baptism was probably reading his Letters from Earth as a teenager. Another wonderful religious thinker is Wallace Stevens. ?We say that God and the imagination are one,? he writes in ?The Final Soliloquy of The Interior Paramour,? ?How high that highest candle lights the dark.? Many poets, it seems, find that the act of writing poetry brings them closer to faith. Does religion work this way for you as well? I am not one of those poets. Certainly, some religious positions strike me as more illuminating than others as regards, for instance, the likely origins of our cosmos and our mortality. The less enlightened positions are characterized by pronouncements of faith, often in a story that depends upon aberrations of natural principles. The more enlightened positions respect both what can be known through scientific inquiry and observation and what cannot be known. If you hold a gun to my head, I will agree with the less enlightened positions. If you offer me a drink, I will agree with some of the more enlightened positions. Otherwise, I would prefer to remain unbound, a free thinker. Religion is one area where it seems to me that the other living creatures on our planet have it over the humans. At the same time, I admire much poetry by people of more conventional faith?T.S. Eliot, Les Murray, Franz Wright, Andrew Hudgins, and I would add Neruda to that list because his Marxism must qualify as religion, and Adrienne Rich, whose feminism is a kind of faith?on and on. That I like the dish that the Buddhist chef serves has nothing to do with my feeling about the Buddha. You are a contemporary of my father. He turned 60 last year and was the first draftee in the state of Alabama granted COship on the basis of religious belief. Politics, particularly of war, (like religion) is an unavoidable subject/subtext of your work. But it?s not until the new poems of Salvation Blues that religion and politics overtly overlap in ?Vision of the End of the World In The Valdosta Holiday Inn,? ?The Language of Love? and ?Postmodern Christianity.? Politics and religion actually share the same line in ?Thanksgiving In The Late 50?s.? Sometimes it occurs to me that, if I were a spy and wanted to send a message, a poem might be a good place to do that, so cold is this beloved media, so few its readers. At best, out of the seven billion people on the planet, a few thousand will read a poetry book, so I would not think poetry the wisest vehicle for dispensing political opinion. And sometimes I look at political poetry, others and my own, and see it as a kind of pornography that arouses conviction in the already convinced. And I am guilty at times of that light empathy, that righteousness that I feel in watching news footage from a country whose name I cannot even spell and imagining that just watching is helping to rectify a horror. Yet I see the unwarranted deaths of 150,000 Iraqis and nearly 4,000 Americans and the maiming of thousands of others, all for political goals that have either never been articulated or that were ill conceived from the outset. So many actions of our government have sickened me: the renditions, the tortures, the failure to protect the environment, the routine demonizations of foreigners. I have written several poems out of this outrage, not with any political outcome in mind, but because of the weight of those feelings, which continue. Should we expect more political poetry from you in the future? Will I write from those feelings again? Perhaps. I was sitting with a group of poets this summer, and Robert Hass said, ?What would have happened, if after the 9-11 bombings, President Bush had gone on television and said, ?We forgive you.??? While that might be a naive political question?If a candidate for president asked it, surely it would end the campaign?it seems essential that poets ask it. Thank you. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Mon Oct 26 20:19:02 2009 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2009 20:19:02 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Tennessee Williams inducted Message-ID: <8CC24B238A69DC9-13C-9F01@webmail-d056.sysops.aol.com> http://www.wickedlocal.com/orleans/fun/entertainment/books/x1365717111/Tennessee-Williams-to-be-inducted-into-Poets-Corner-in-NY PROVINCETOWN - The Cathedral of St. John the Divine in New York City, in association with the Provincetown Tennessee Williams Festival, is presenting an evening of poetry, theater and reminiscences in honor of the induction of Tennessee Williams into the Cathedral?s Poets? Corner. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Mon Oct 26 20:41:08 2009 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2009 20:41:08 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Silliman on sale Message-ID: <8CC24B54F0F5645-13C-A4BE@webmail-d056.sysops.aol.com> UC Press has a sale going on till Sat...including some steeply discounted titles: http://www.ucpress.edu/books/pages/10742.php = -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From c.a.b.daly at gmail.com Mon Oct 26 21:12:28 2009 From: c.a.b.daly at gmail.com (Catherine Daly) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2009 18:12:28 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Daly, Greenstreet, & Holmes reading in LA Message-ID: Catherine Daly, Kate Greenstreet & Janet Holmes Friday, Oct. 30 at 7:30 pm @ Beyond Baroque 681 Venice Blvd. Venice, CA 310.822.3006 sorry if I already posted this NEW FROM AHSAHTA PRESS: The Last 4 Things by Kate Greenstreet http://ahsahtapress.boisestate.edu -- All best, Catherine Daly c.a.b.daly at gmail.com From mandolin at mikesnider.org Mon Oct 26 22:56:46 2009 From: mandolin at mikesnider.org (Michael Snider) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2009 22:56:46 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fine interview with Richard Wilbur Message-ID: <6768ac830910261956s3552ecfey2135dcb7deeff560@mail.gmail.com> The interviewer, Arlo Haskell, sent me this link: http://www.kwls.org/lit/kwls_blog/2009/10/the_world_is_fundamentally_a_g.cfm Wilbur's got a new book coming out next year! From halvard at gmail.com Tue Oct 27 12:18:13 2009 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2009 10:18:13 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Hamilton Stone Review, Issue 19, Fall 2009, Now Online! Message-ID: Hamilton Stone Review #19 is up at http://www.hamiltonstone.org/hsr.html . Poetry by Nathan Leslie. Fiction by Jan Clausen, Dave Engeldrum, Jackie Ernst, Laurence Klavan, Angela Lang, Corey Mesler, Leora Skolkin-Smith, and Barry Spacks. Nonfiction by Kelle Groom, Rigoberto Gonzalez, James Richardson, and Damon Shaw. Fiction Editor: Lynda Schor Nonfiction Editor: Reamy Jansen -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From seamascain at gmail.com Tue Oct 27 12:19:24 2009 From: seamascain at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?S=E9amas_Cain?=) Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2009 11:19:24 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] ... two phantom objects Message-ID: <6f1e9ee40910270919y6bd15277s7b4f9677e3b3d745@mail.gmail.com> _______________ P H O S P H O R a surrealist luminescence Issue Number Two on the theme of "two phantom objects ..." seventy-two pages, B5 format, ISSN 1755-0009 Andrew Boobier, Gareth Brown, Eugenio Castro, Stephen J. Clark, Kenneth Cox, Jan Drabble, Guy Ducornet, Kathleen Fox, Bill Howe, Micha?l L?wy, Sarah Metcalf, Peter Overton, Mike Peters, No? Ortega Quijano, Michael Richardson, Franklin Rosemont, Bruno Solarik, Jan ?vankmajer, John Welson, John Hartley Williams published by the LEEDS SURREALIST GROUP http://leedssurrealistgroup.wordpress.com Price ?6.00 plus additional postage - ? 0.76 UK 2nd class AIRMAIL: ? 1.90 Europe - ? 3.00 Rest of World SURFACE MAIL: ? 1.80 Europe & Rest of World Send cheques/POs/IMOs (payable to ?Surrealist Editions?) to: PHOSPHOR, 6 Aberdeen Grove, Leeds, England, LS12 3QY or, e-mail surrealisteditions at surrealism.madasafish.com for a PayPal payment request LEEDS SURREALIST GROUP http://leedssurrealistgroup.wordpress.com In luminescence, S?amas Cain http://www.mnartists.org/Seamas_Cain _______________ From jforjames at aol.com Tue Oct 27 13:27:14 2009 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2009 13:27:14 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Can Poetry Save the Earth? Message-ID: <8CC2541DBA529EA-2B74-6359@webmail-m055.sysops.aol.com> Has anyone read this book. I'm interested in the subject of ecopoetics. Finnegan http://yalepress.yale.edu/yupbooks/book.asp?isbn=9780300137507 Can Poetry Save the Earth? A Field Guide to Nature Poems John Felstiner Poems vivifying nature have gripped people for centuries. From Biblical times to the present day, poetry has continuously drawn us to the natural world. In this thought-provoking book, John Felstiner explores the rich legacy of poems that take nature as their subject, and he demonstrates their force and beauty. In our own time of environmental crises, he contends, poetry has a unique capacity to restore our attention to our environment in its imperiled state. And, as we take heed, we may well become better stewards of the earth. In forty brief and lucid chapters, Felstiner presents those voices that have most strongly spoken to and for the natural world. Poets?from the Romantics through Whitman and Dickinson to Elizabeth Bishop and Gary Snyder?have helped us envision such details as ocean winds eroding and rebuilding dunes in the same breath, wild deer freezing in our presence, and a person carving initials on a still-living stranded whale. Sixty color and black-and-white images, many seen for the first time, bear out visually the environmental imagination this book discovers?a poetic legacy more vital now than ever. John Felstiner is professor of English, Stanford University. He lives in the Santa Cruz Mountains. -- Looks like he spoke recently at Poets House... http://poetshouse.org/progcoming.htm -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Tue Oct 27 14:36:31 2009 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2009 19:36:31 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Can Poetry Save the Earth? In-Reply-To: <8CC2541DBA529EA-2B74-6359@webmail-m055.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CC2541DBA529EA-2B74-6359@webmail-m055.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <4b65c2d70910271136o6b0d1c2ew6dc059473cf4a7d0@mail.gmail.com> I am also interested. I did not read the book, but it seems promising. On Tue, Oct 27, 2009 at 6:27 PM, wrote: > Has anyone read this book. I'm interested in the subject of ecopoetics. > Finnegan > > http://yalepress.yale.edu/yupbooks/book.asp?isbn=9780300137507 > > Can Poetry Save the Earth? > A Field Guide to Nature Poems > John Felstiner > Poems vivifying nature have gripped people for centuries. From Biblical > times to the present day, poetry has continuously drawn us to the natural > world. In this thought-provoking book, John Felstiner explores the rich > legacy of poems that take nature as their subject, and he demonstrates their > force and beauty. In our own time of environmental crises, he contends, > poetry has a unique capacity to restore our attention to our environment in > its imperiled state. And, as we take heed, we may well become better > stewards of the earth. > In forty brief and lucid chapters, Felstiner presents those voices that > have most strongly spoken to and for the natural world. Poets?from the > Romantics through Whitman and Dickinson to Elizabeth Bishop and Gary > Snyder?have helped us envision such details as ocean winds eroding and > rebuilding dunes in the same breath, wild deer freezing in our presence, and > a person carving initials on a still-living stranded whale. > > Sixty color and black-and-white images, many seen for the first time, bear > out visually the environmental imagination this book discovers?a poetic > legacy more vital now than ever. > > John Felstiner is professor of English, Stanford University. He lives in > the Santa Cruz Mountains. > -- > Looks like he spoke recently at Poets House... > http://poetshouse.org/progcoming.htm > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From seamascain at gmail.com Tue Oct 27 14:49:41 2009 From: seamascain at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?S=E9amas_Cain?=) Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2009 13:49:41 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] ... to be entranced in Glasgow Message-ID: <6f1e9ee40910271149k3b97563ctce5bd1dc89dad74@mail.gmail.com> _______________ On Saturday the 31st of October 2009, at 8:30 p.m., in the Centre for Contemporary Arts, 350 Sauchiehall Street in Glasgow, Scotland ... Ce?l 's Craic will present an evening of poetry & music. Poetry from Alasdair Roberts, with M?iri Morrison & Sineag MacIntyre ... Also Stevie Jones & Alastair Caplin ... Alasdair Roberts? Who is he? Drawing on folklore, his poetry & songs are complex; contemporary & ancient, metaphysical & dark but also playful. Go to Ce?l 's Craic at Halloween to be entranced! M?iri Morrison, well-respected actress & singer, will be joining Alasdair Roberts on stage where we will see some Gaelic & English collaborations in spontaneity. Admission is ?8 (?5) ... For more information write to michelle.ceol at googlemail.com For more information about the Centre for Contemporary Arts, go to ... http://cca-glasgow.com/home For more information about Comhairle nan Leabhraichean (the Gaelic Books Council) go to ... https://lsh507.securepod.com/gaelicbooks.org/merchantmanager/ For more information about Ce?l 's Craic, go to ... http://www.myspace.com/ceolscraic Tapaidh leibh, agus ch? sinn ann thu! S?amas Cain http://www.saorsainn.net _______________ From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Tue Oct 27 14:54:45 2009 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2009 19:54:45 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Tennessee Williams inducted In-Reply-To: <8CC24B238A69DC9-13C-9F01@webmail-d056.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CC24B238A69DC9-13C-9F01@webmail-d056.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <4b65c2d70910271154u401d6001ub1faa803c58bb6ae@mail.gmail.com> Talking of another Poets' Corner, the site has been down for a couple of days now. The webmaster is working on it. I am sorry for any inconvenience and hopefully the problem will be solved soon. Thank you for your patience, Anny On Tue, Oct 27, 2009 at 1:19 AM, wrote: > > http://www.wickedlocal.com/orleans/fun/entertainment/books/x1365717111/Tennessee-Williams-to-be-inducted-into-Poets-Corner-in-NY > > PROVINCETOWN - The Cathedral of St. John the Divine in New York City, in > association with the Provincetown Tennessee Williams Festival, is presenting > an evening of poetry, theater and reminiscences in honor of the induction of > Tennessee Williams into the Cathedral?s Poets? Corner. > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Tue Oct 27 17:37:16 2009 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2009 22:37:16 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Bluecher Message-ID: <4b65c2d70910271437u619602f8j4ba2e1ffd37ee276@mail.gmail.com> *The eyes of man are sun-like, because art comes and makes them more sun-like. Art is so mighty because it changes our perception of the world. It is almost as mighty as philosophy and not nearly so harmful, because it does not ask anything of us. Art makes no request except one - to be loved - but no other request will a work of art ever make. If we love art and participate in the experience given there then our entire being will be changed, so mighty is this experience and yet so harmless.* http://www.bard.edu/bluecher/history.htm -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Opus40-01 at opus40.org Tue Oct 27 18:45:05 2009 From: Opus40-01 at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2009 18:45:05 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Bluecher In-Reply-To: <4b65c2d70910271437u619602f8j4ba2e1ffd37ee276@mail.gmail.com> References: <4b65c2d70910271437u619602f8j4ba2e1ffd37ee276@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4AE777F1.1060408@opus40.org> I took Heinrich Bluecher's course at Bard. Anny Ballardini wrote: > /The eyes of man are sun-like, because art comes and makes them more > sun-like. Art is so mighty because it changes our perception of the > world. It is almost as mighty as philosophy and not nearly so harmful, > because it does not ask anything of us. Art makes no request except > one - to be loved - but no other request will a work of art ever make. > If we love art and participate in the experience given there then our > entire being will be changed, so mighty is this experience and yet so > harmless./ > http://www.bard.edu/bluecher/history.htm > > > -- > Anny Ballardini > http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ > http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome > http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 > http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html > I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a > dancing star! > Friedrich Nietzsche > > ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique > vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? > Giovenale > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Tad Richards Read my NY Writing Careers Examiner column today! http://www.examiner.com/x-2862-NY-Writing-Careers-Examiner http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ From amyhappens at yahoo.com Wed Oct 28 12:33:48 2009 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king) Date: Wed, 28 Oct 2009 09:33:48 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] This Friday, October 30th @ 7 p.m. ~ Cara Benson, Elizabeth Bryant, Carla Drysdale, Brenda Iijima, Magus Magnus & Moez Surani with special guest host Julian Brolaski! Message-ID: <801263.28827.qm@web83306.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> October 30th, Friday @ 7 p.m. ~ Cara Benson, Elizabeth Bryant, Carla Drysdale, Brenda Iijima, Magus Magnus & Moez Surani with special guest host Julian Brolaski! Cara Benson edits Sous Rature. Her first full length book (made) is forthcoming from BookThug in 2010. Her chapbook Quantum Chaos and Poems: A Manifest(o)ation (BookThug) co-won the 2008 bpNichol Prize. Other chaps include He Writes (No Press), UP (Dusie Kollectiv), and Spell/ing ( ) Bound (ellectrique press) with Kai Fierle-Hedrick and Kathrin Schaeppi. Benson edited the interdisciplinary book Prediction forthcoming from Chain. She lives and writes in the analog world of upstate NY. Her online home is necessetics. ~ Elizabeth Bryant?s newest book, (nevertheless enjoyment, is forthcoming fall 2009 from Quale Press. Her writing appears in many print and online journals including Wheelhouse Magazine, Coconut, Dusie, Bombay Gin, Key Satch(el), Gerry Mulligan, and Intercapillary Space. She is the editor of CR79 Books, and the ongoing writing experiment Defeffable. She also co-curates the Bard Roving Reading Series. ~ Carla Drysdale was born in London, Ontario and was educated at Ryerson university in Toronto as well as Sarah Lawrence College in New York. Her poems have appeared in Canadian and US journals, including the Literary Review of Canada, Canadian Literature, the Fiddlehead, Global City Review, The Same and LIT. She has won several fellowships to the Virginia Center for the Creative Arts, where she collaborated with Pulitzer-prize winning composer David Del Tredici, who set her poem, ?New Year?s Eve? to music. She recently relocated from NYC to Geneva, Switzerland, where she works as a public radio journalist. Her first book of poems, Little Venus, is being published in October by Toronto?s Tightrope Books. ~ Brenda Iijima is the author of Animate, Inanimate Aims (Litmus Books) and Around Sea (O Books). Two books are forthcoming in the near future: revv. you?ll?ution (Displaced Press) and If Not Metamorphic (Ahsahta Press). She is currently researching all the women who were murdered in her hometown of North Adams, Massachusetts as well as writing an encyclopedia of animals used by humans as surrogates. She publishes chapbooks on Portable Press at Yo-Yo Labs. ~ Magus Magnus? Verb Sap came out from Narrow House of Baltimore in autumn of 2008. Pieces from this work also form the basis of an ongoing experimental musical collaboration with flutist Jennifer Lapple, titled ?Verb Sap recitative.? Over the past year, M.?s online radio show on blogtalkradio, titled ?MMm? Utterance? featured readings from Verb Sap, some earlier work, and from his upcoming book Imposter!: instances, regrets. M. reads regularly around the Baltimore-D.C. area, and his work has appeared in Viviparous Blenny, Shattered Wig Review, the ie Reader, and more; as director of Yockadot Poetics Theatre Project, he enjoys showcasing poets and performers dedicated to exploring the variety of ways text can be induced to leap off the page live. M. lives in Alexandria, Virginia, with his wife Manya Magnus, and their two children, Hero (age 9), and Gryphon (about to turn 4). ~ Moez Surani?s poetry and short fiction have been published widely in Canada. He has served as a writer-in-residence for the Toronto Catholic District School Board and curator for the Strong Words Reading Series in Toronto. Among his awards is a 2008 Chalmers Arts Fellowship, which supported an extended research stint to India and East Africa. His debut collection of poems (September, 2009) is titled Reticent Bodies. guest hosted by Julian T. Brolaski is the author of the chapbooks Hellish Death Monsters (Spooky Press, 2001), Letters to Hank Williams (True West Press, 2003), The Daily Usonian (Atticus/Finch, 2004) and Madame Bovary?s Diary (Cy Press, 2005), Buck in a Corridor (flynpyntar, 2008) and the blog herm of warsaw. Xir first book gowanus atropolis is forthcoming from Ugly Duckling Presse in 2010. Brolaski lives in Brooklyn where xe writes poetry, serves as a Litmus Press editor, plays country music in The Low & the Lonesome (www.myspace.com/thelowandthelonesome), and curates Mongrel Vaudeville (http://mongrelvaudeville.blogspot.com). at Goodbye Blue Monday1087 Broadway(corner of Dodworth St)Brooklyn, NY 11221-3013(718) 453-6343 J M Z trains to Myrtle Aveor J train to Kosciusko St ~ PHOTOS and VIDEO here -- http://stainofpoetry.com/ _______ NEW BOOK Slaves to Do These Things -- http://www.blazevox.org/bk-ak3.htm? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Wed Oct 28 16:24:49 2009 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Wed, 28 Oct 2009 21:24:49 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Bluecher In-Reply-To: <4AE777F1.1060408@opus40.org> References: <4b65c2d70910271437u619602f8j4ba2e1ffd37ee276@mail.gmail.com> <4AE777F1.1060408@opus40.org> Message-ID: <4b65c2d70910281324v5f8f68d4x9555ea7ad889c63c@mail.gmail.com> Please Tad, let us know more. On Tue, Oct 27, 2009 at 11:45 PM, TheOldMole wrote: > I took Heinrich Bluecher's course at Bard. > > Anny Ballardini wrote: > >> /The eyes of man are sun-like, because art comes and makes them more >> sun-like. Art is so mighty because it changes our perception of the world. >> It is almost as mighty as philosophy and not nearly so harmful, because it >> does not ask anything of us. Art makes no request except one - to be loved - >> but no other request will a work of art ever make. If we love art and >> participate in the experience given there then our entire being will be >> changed, so mighty is this experience and yet so harmless./ >> >> http://www.bard.edu/bluecher/history.htm >> >> >> -- >> Anny Ballardini >> http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ >> http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome >> http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 >> http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html >> I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing >> star! >> Friedrich Nietzsche >> >> ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique >> vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? >> Giovenale >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > > -- > Tad Richards > Read my NY Writing Careers Examiner column today! > http://www.examiner.com/x-2862-NY-Writing-Careers-Examiner > > http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ > http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From amyhappens at yahoo.com Wed Oct 28 16:35:12 2009 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king) Date: Wed, 28 Oct 2009 13:35:12 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] OT: Italian Women respond to Berlusconit's Words, finally... In-Reply-To: <4b65c2d70910281324v5f8f68d4x9555ea7ad889c63c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <943407.79468.qm@web83306.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> I am just hearing about all of this, Anny! ?Posted on my Fbook wall... How is the mood over there? ?I hear there is talk of revitalizing the somewhat defunct Women's Movement...? Italian Women Assail Berlusconi For Sexist Remarks http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=114242303 And ? http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/sep/20/berlusconi-italian-women-sexism -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Wed Oct 28 18:30:10 2009 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Wed, 28 Oct 2009 23:30:10 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] OT: Italian Women respond to Berlusconit's Words, finally... In-Reply-To: <943407.79468.qm@web83306.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: <4b65c2d70910281324v5f8f68d4x9555ea7ad889c63c@mail.gmail.com> <943407.79468.qm@web83306.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4b65c2d70910281530u36782ff4ne83718bc4b0e774a@mail.gmail.com> Dear Amy, thank you for the link and the pain. I get my tiny revenge here when I say that in the past decade little Italy appeared twice on the front page of The New York Times. The first time when Berlusconi's wife publicly stated that he betrayed her. The second time after about ten years, when she boasted out with the same accusation, the title of this second article was: *Italians like the farce* I haven't watched television since 9/11. Thank you for thinking of me, but I feel disastered by politics and by the general trend by which the financially strongest and close clan intrigue always end up winning. Berlusconi's children have positions that nobody will ever dismantle, and the same substructure is endlessly repeated in every sector, not only in politics, and not only related to Berlusconi. Italy is centuries behind the States. And oldest Europe is still standing thanks to a few exceptional minds. Deleuze and Guattari, and before them Kafka, and Nietzsche before, they all saw straight through. Leonardo wrote backwards and there were very few people who could read, would he be alive now, I'd bet he would live in disguise. I guess I am in a ranting mood... good night from here! Anny On Wed, Oct 28, 2009 at 9:35 PM, amy king wrote: > I am just hearing about all of this, Anny! Posted on my Fbook wall... How > is the mood over there? I hear there is talk of revitalizing the somewhat > defunct Women's Movement...? > > > Italian Women Assail Berlusconi For Sexist Remarks > > http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=114242303 > > > And > > http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/sep/20/berlusconi-italian-women-sexism > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Wed Oct 28 19:15:47 2009 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Wed, 28 Oct 2009 19:15:47 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Crow and Raven: Baskin, Hughes, Manet, Poe Message-ID: <8CC263BB7416142-9FA8-11E4E@webmail-m016.sysops.aol.com> http://www.advocateweekly.com/ci_13660775 Clark Art Institute marries art and poetry in 'Crow and Raven' By STEPHEN DRAVIS Posted: 10/28/2009 03:12:40 PM EDT The Clark Art Institute's latest exhibition probes some pretty dark subject matter. But it also demonstrates that the Clark's staff is not taking itself or its art too seriously. "When I arrived a few months ago, (senior curator) Richard (Rand) said, 'Let's do a spooky Paris show,'" recalled Jay Clarke, the Clark's Manton curator of prints, drawings and photographs. "I said, 'Spooky Paris? What's spooky Paris?'" >From those initial conversations grew "Crow and Raven: Baskin, Hughes, Manet, Poe," an exhibition featuring illustrations inspired by the poetry of Edgar Allen Poe and Ted Hughes. The show opened on Oct. 16, just weeks before this weekend's Clark symposium titled "Is Paris Still the Capital of the Nineteenth Century?" That's why Rand was thinking of the French metropolis. And the "spooky" part? "It's not a coincidence that this is up at Halloween," Clarke said while conducting a tour of the exhibit. "Could we do it in January or February? Of course we could. But it's nice to have it around Halloween time." = -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Wed Oct 28 21:59:37 2009 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Wed, 28 Oct 2009 21:59:37 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Yeats is inescapable. Message-ID: <8CC26529ADB1036-9FA8-146D8@webmail-m016.sysops.aol.com> http://bostonreview.net/BR34.5/huddleston.php The Yeats Brothers and Modernism?s Love of Motion Calvin Bedient University of Notre Dame Press, $48 Our Secret Discipline: Yeats and Lyric Form Helen Vendler Harvard University Press, $35 Robert Huddleston William Butler Yeats has been called the twentieth century?s greatest poet. He may even deserve the title. As Richard Ellmann wrote in his classic study Yeats: The Man and the Masks, ?it is not easy to assign him a lower place.? Others may have attempted more; none achieved it. Ezra Pound, T. S. Eliot, Wallace Stevens, and all the other contenders of Yeats?s illustrious generation?none stakes quite the same claim on the imagination, or on the idiom, of our time. ?Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold?; ?A terrible beauty is born?; ?Now days are dragon-ridden, the nightmare / Rides upon sleep.? Even Joyce has his protagonist Stephen Dedalus murmuring lines from Yeats?s early poem ?Who Goes with Fergus?? on Sandymount strand: ?And no more turn aside and brood / Upon love?s bitter mystery.? Like Shakespeare, Yeats is inescapable. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From junction at earthlink.net Wed Oct 28 23:28:22 2009 From: junction at earthlink.net (Mark Weiss) Date: Wed, 28 Oct 2009 23:28:22 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: The Whole Island: Cuban Poetry Anthology (November 5) Message-ID: > >Visit Americas Society Online > Literature >at Americas Society >Americas Society ?? 680 Park Avenue, New York, >NY >10065 ?? >www.americas-society.org > > >Book presentation and readings (bilingual) > > > >The Whole Island: Six Decades of Cuban Poetry > > > > > >University of California Press > > > > > > >Thursday, November 5 >7:00 pm >Free admission > > > > > >Editor Mark Weiss will read with Christopher >Winks, Margaret Carson, and Iraida Iturralde >from his new anthology, the first comprehensive >bilingual overview of Cuban poetry to be >published during the past sixty years, compiling >a breadth of iconic authors including Nicol??s >Guill??n, Jos?? Lezama Lima, and Nancy Morej??n, >as well as poets who remain almost unknown to >the English-speaking world, such as Fina Garc??a >Marruz, Jos?? Kozer, and Ra??l Hern??ndez Novas. >The anthology is an essential source for >understanding the literature and culture of >Cuba, its diaspora, and the Caribbean at large. >"A masterwork of cartography: a map of what is, >for English-language readers, an almost entirely >unexplored territory, full of poets at home or >in the diaspora whom we ought to know."?Eliott Weinberger >This event has been organized in collaboration >with the Cuban Cultural Center of New York > >Reservations: >Americas Society Members: Reserve today at >poetry book presentation>membersres at americas-society.org. >Non-Members: Reservations open today. >Reserve >online today. >Americas Society gratefully acknowledges the >generous support of our Literature Program >donors: Honorary Benefactor Amalia Lacroze de >Fortabat, The Reed Foundation, and the Program >for Cultural Cooperation between Spain's >Ministry of Culture and U.S. Universities. The >Literature Program is also made possible, in >part, with public funds from the New York State >Council on the Arts, a State Agency, and the New >York City Department of Cultural Affairs. >In-kind support is provided by the Sal??n Literario Libroam??rica. >back to top > >Culture Programs Reservations > >Americas Society Members - Reserve your FREE >tickets today for guaranteed admission to our >culture programs this season and Members-only >Meet-the-Artist receptions! Email >membersres at americas-society.org >or call (212) 277 8359 ext. 4. > >Not yet a Member? Don't be left out! Join today >to guarantee your free admission to our culture >programs. Learn more about member >benefits, >and email >membership at americas-society.org, >or call (212) 277 8359 ext. 4 to join. > >Non-Members Admission - Limited seating will be >available five business days prior to each >Culture program on a first-come, first-served >basis. Please visit our >events >calendar for registration information. > >Location and Hours > >All our culture programs are free, open to the >public, and take place at Americas Society, >unless noted. We are located at 680 Park Avenue >at 68th Street in New York City. To arrive by >public transportation, take the 6 train to 68th >Street / Hunter College. >Map. >For wheelchair access, kindly call in advance. > >Gallery hours are Wednesdays to Saturdays from 12 pm to 6 pm. > >For more information, visit >www.americas-society.org. >If you have questions or comments, please email >us at >culture at americas-society.org. > >Mailing List > >Use these links to >me to your Culture List>Join our Culture Email >List, >Leave >our Culture Email List or >Change >your Email Address. >Forward >this email to a friend. > >The Americas Society/Council of the Americas >does not share your information with third parties. > >About Americas Society > >Americas Society is the premier forum dedicated >to education, debate and dialogue in the >Americas. Our mission is to foster an >understanding of the contemporary political, >social and economic issues confronting Latin >America, the Caribbean and Canada, and to >increase public awareness and appreciation of >the diverse cultural heritage of the Americas >and the importance of the inter-American relationship. > >Image: The Whole Island: Six Decades of Cuban >Poetry, image courtesy of University of CA Press. >[] > Announcing The Whole Island: Six Decades of Cuban Poetry (University of California Press). Forthcoming in November 2009. http://go.ucpress.edu/WholeIsland -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From seamascain at gmail.com Thu Oct 29 12:05:30 2009 From: seamascain at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?S=E9amas_Cain?=) Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2009 11:05:30 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] ... burning the darkness Message-ID: <6f1e9ee40910290905t126d6f7bnab249ac96deb31be@mail.gmail.com> _______________ "The Poetry of Kristiina Ehin" A tri-lingual reading in Estonian, English & Irish from the book ... "P?letades Pimedust Burning the Darkness An Dorchadas ? Dh?" published by Coisc?im in Dublin, Ireland poetry written by Kristiina Ehin translated into English by Ilmar Lehtpere translated into Irish by Gabriel Rosenstock The evening will also feature Irish & Estonian music performed by Dave Murphy Tuesday > November 3, 2009 Time > 6.30 p.m. 112 St. Stephen?s Green West Dublin 2, Ireland Admission > free Contact > info at poetryireland.ie Kristiina Ehin has published five volumes of poetry in her native Estonia & has won a number of prizes there, including Estonia?s most prestigious poetry prize. "The Drums of Silence" (Oleander Press, Cambridge, England, 2007), a volume of her selected poems in English translation, was awarded the Poetry Society Corneliu M. Popescu Prize for European Poetry in Translation in 2007. Her work has been translated into twelve languages. Gabriel Rosenstock has written: "It shouldn't surprise one to learn that Ehin spent a year on an uninhabited island as a nature warden. She herself moves in the land of men like an aspen, an oak, with astonishing sensitivity & strength, an eternal openess to silence, to the past & to the future ..." Gabriel Rosenstock is a poet & haikuist, author/translator of over 160 books, mostly in Irish. "Rogha D?nta/Selected Poems" was published in 2005 by Cl? Iar-Chonnachta. The bilingual volume "Bliain an Bhand?/Year of the Goddess" appeared in 2007 from Dedalus Press. The second volume of his international anthology of sacred poetry "Guthanna Beannaithe an Domhain" is due shortly from Coisc?im. Ilmar Lehtpere has written: "The roots of Kristiina's very contemporary poetry are embedded deep in an ancient folk song tradition & in her organic view of the world. Like folk song, she invites the reader to share her experience at a primal level. The apparent but deceptive simplicity & directness of her language & her use of timeless imagery that bypasses the intellect & goes straight to the soul have enormous power, especially in our rootless, superficial times. Her subject matter is universal, yet deeply personal, & is expressed so vividly that her joys & sorrows seem to become one's own. Through Kristiina's poetry & prose one begins to understand what it means to be a woman, to be a mother." Ilmar Lehtpere had a bilingual upbringing in Estonian & English. He is the translator of Kristiina Ehin's "The Drums of Silence." His own poetry has appeared in Estonian & Irish literary journals. This, the official launch of the first trilingual Estonian-Irish-English book will take place along with a night of readings, music, & song featuring Kristiina Ehin, P?draig ? Snodaigh, Ilmar Lehtpere, Dave Murphy, & Gabriel Rosenstock. "P?letades Pimedust Burning the Darkness An Dorchadas ? Dh?" ... may be purchased from Litr?ocht at ... http://www.litriocht.com/shop/product_info.php?products_id=5753 or, the book may be purchased directly from Coisc?im leabhairgaeilge at eircom.net or, COISC?IM, TIG BHR?DE, 91 B?THAR BHINN ?ADAIR, BINN ?ADAIR, BAILE ?THA CLIATH 13, ?IRE Additional information about the book ... http://www.coisceim.ie/andorchadasadho.html Other books by Kristiina Ehin may be purchased at ... http://www.apollo.ee/search.php?keyword=Kristiina+Ehin Burning the darkness, S?amas Cain http://alazanto.org/seamascain _______________ From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Thu Oct 29 13:39:15 2009 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2009 18:39:15 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: The Whole Island: Cuban Poetry Anthology (November 5) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4b65c2d70910291039n25816c44l2569c89274e3f310@mail.gmail.com> Congratulations! On Thu, Oct 29, 2009 at 4:28 AM, Mark Weiss wrote: > > [image: Visit Americas Society Online] Literature > at Americas Society > Americas Society ?? 680 Park Avenue, New York, NY 10065 ?? > www.americas-society.org > > Book presentation and readings (bilingual) > > > *The Whole Island: Six Decades of Cuban Poetry* > > > *University of California Press* > > > > *Thursday, November 5 > 7:00 pm > Free admission* > > > > Editor Mark Weiss will read with Christopher Winks, Margaret Carson, and > Iraida Iturralde from his new anthology, the first comprehensive bilingual > overview of Cuban poetry to be published during the past sixty years, > compiling a breadth of iconic authors including Nicol??s Guill??n, Jos?? > Lezama Lima, and Nancy Morej??n, as well as poets who remain almost unknown > to the English-speaking world, such as Fina Garc??a Marruz, Jos?? Kozer, and > Ra??l Hern??ndez Novas. The anthology is an essential source for > understanding the literature and culture of Cuba, its diaspora, and the > Caribbean at large. "A masterwork of cartography: a map of what is, for > English-language readers, an almost entirely unexplored territory, full of > poets at home or in the diaspora whom we ought to know."?Eliott Weinberger > This event has been organized in collaboration with the Cuban Cultural > Center of New York > > *Reservations:* > Americas Society Members: Reserve today at membersres at americas-society.org. > > Non-Members: Reservations open today. Reserve online today. > > Americas Society gratefully acknowledges the generous support of our > Literature Program donors: Honorary Benefactor Amalia Lacroze de Fortabat, > The Reed Foundation, and the Program for Cultural Cooperation between > Spain's Ministry of Culture and U.S. Universities. The Literature Program is > also made possible, in part, with public funds from the New York State > Council on the Arts, a State Agency, and the New York City Department of > Cultural Affairs. In-kind support is provided by the Sal??n Literario > Libroam??rica. > back to top <#1249e568a417aca5_top> > > *Culture Programs Reservations* > > *Americas Society Members* - Reserve your FREE tickets today for > guaranteed admission to our culture programs this season and Members-only > Meet-the-Artist receptions! Email membersres at americas-society.org or call > (212) 277 8359 ext. 4. > > *Not yet a Member?* Don't be left out! Join today to guarantee your free > admission to our culture programs. Learn more about member benefits, > and email membership at americas-society.org, or call (212) 277 8359 ext. 4 > to join. > > *Non-Members Admission* - Limited seating will be available five business > days prior to each Culture program on a first-come, first-served basis. > Please visit our events calendarfor registration information. > > *Location and Hours > * > All our culture programs are free, open to the public, and take place at > Americas Society, unless noted. We are located at 680 Park Avenue at 68th > Street in New York City. To arrive by public transportation, take the *6*train to > *68th Street / Hunter College*. Map. > For wheelchair access, kindly call in advance. > > Gallery hours are Wednesdays to Saturdays from 12 pm to 6 pm. > > For more information, visit www.americas-society.org. > If you have questions or comments, please email us at > culture at americas-society.org > . > > *Mailing List > * > Use these links to Join our Culture Email List, > Leave our Culture Email Listor Change > your Email Address. > Forward this email to a friend > . > > The Americas Society/Council of the Americas does not share your > information with third parties. > > *About Americas Society > * > Americas Society is the premier forum dedicated to education, debate and > dialogue in the Americas. Our mission is to foster an understanding of the > contemporary political, social and economic issues confronting Latin > America, the Caribbean and Canada, and to increase public awareness and > appreciation of the diverse cultural heritage of the Americas and the > importance of the inter-American relationship. > > Image: *The Whole Island: Six Decades of Cuban Poetry*, image courtesy of > University of CA Press. > [image: []] > > Announcing *The Whole Island: Six Decades of Cuban Poetry* (University of > California Press). > Forthcoming in November 2009. > http://go.ucpress.edu/WholeIsland > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Thu Oct 29 15:03:33 2009 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2009 20:03:33 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Happy Birthday Message-ID: <4b65c2d70910291203i6487f384ka7745d83e5a66976@mail.gmail.com> to the Internet! 40 years old today, :-) -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Thu Oct 29 16:27:07 2009 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2009 21:27:07 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] here's for Walt Message-ID: <4b65c2d70910291327u240eb79exf4ad8da542361e4d@mail.gmail.com> International Whitman Symposium: "?In Paths Untrodden?: The 1860 *Leaves of Grass*" *Universit? di Macerata*, June 18-19, 2010 This year?s symposium will celebrate the 150th anniversary of *Leaves of Grass* 1860.It will be devoted to the body of the 1860 *Leaves* with a particular focus on the many new paths Whitman opened with it. Papers are invited to cover a wide range of approaches to Whitman?s poems: his experimenting with multilingualism and textual construction, his focus on the cohesive and energizing power of human relationships and attachments, his belief in the creative force of love, language and poetry, his anxieties about the impending civil war. Papers focusing on international responses to the poems in the 1860 *Leaves*, including translations into other languages, are also strongly encouraged. One-page *abstracts *should be sent to Marina Camboni, Universit? di Macerata (camboni at unimc.it), Ed Folsom (ed-folsom at uiowa.edu), and Jay Grossman (j-grossman at northwestern.edu) by 21 April, 2010. Announcing International Whitman Week 2010 INTERNATIONAL WHITMAN WEEK 2010 SEMINAR AND SYMPOSIUM Universit? di Macerata, Macerata, Italy, 14-20 June, 2010 * *The *Transatlantic Walt Whitman Association (TWWA)*, founded in Paris in 2007, invites students, researchers, and Whitman enthusiasts to participate in its third annual Whitman Week, consisting of a seminar for advanced students interested in Whitman and Whitman?s poetry, and a symposium bringing together international scholars and graduate students. ------------------------ *International Whitman Seminar: Walt Whitman?s Poetry in the 21st Century * *Universit? di Macerata *Walt Whitman?s poetry, written in the nineteenth century, continues to have a strong impact on literatures and cultures worldwide. Every year new editions of Whitman?s work are published in a variety of languages; an ever-expanding group of poets ?reply? to him in their poetry; his poems are set to music and are quoted in films; he is invoked in the discussion of political and cultural issues as well as of gender and sexuality; and he continues to be a huge presence in college and university curricula globally. In order to respond adequately to this international phenomenon *The Transatlantic Walt Whitman Association* sponsors a series of *International Whitman Seminars*, where students from different countries come together for intensive, credit-bearing classes taught by an international team of Whitman specialists. The first seminar was held in Dortmund, Germany, in June 2008. The second took place in Tours, France, in June 2009. The third will take place in Macerata, Italy, on 14-20 June 2010. In the regular classes, focusing on some of Whitman?s major poems, students will have an opportunity confront Whitman?s books, share their readings of key poems and clusters, and discuss Whitman?s attempts at a multilingual English, his cohesive representation of human relations, and his work?s international significance in the twenty-first century. In addition, there will be special presentations on the reception of Whitman in various countries and languages as well as other topics. This year?s instructors will be ?ric Athenot (Universit? Fran?ois-Rabelais, Tours), translator of the 1855 *Leaves* and author of *Walt Whitman, po?te-cosmos**; * Betsy Erkkila (Northwestern University), author of *Walt Whitman among the French *and *Walt Whitman the Political Poet; * Kenneth M. Price (University of Nebraska, Lincoln), co-founder and editor of the *Walt Whitman Archive, *author of *To Walt Whitman, America*; and Andrew Lawson (Leeds Metropolitan University), author of *Walt Whitman and the Class Struggle.* Students will also participate in the symposium held at the end of the week and featuring Whitman scholars from various countries. Credits will be issued by the *Universit? di Macerata*. International visiting students will live with their Italian counterparts, thus keeping expenses as low as possible and creating opportunities for a meaningful intercultural dialogue. In addition to class work on Whitman and the symposium, students will visit Giacomo Leopardi?s house in Recanati, and will be shown some of the artistic and architectural treasures of the area. Macerata is a historic city of 42,000 people in the Marche region of Italy set on the hills sloping down to the Adriatic Sea. The university, located in the beautiful original walled city, owns some of the most interesting historical buildings, including Palazzo Ugolini-- the first Neoclassical palace in Macerata, designed by the famous architect Valadier-- where the Seminar and Symposium will be held . ** *Application*: 15 non-Italian international students will be accepted to the Week. Applications should include a curriculum-vitae, a one-page statement of interest in the seminar, and a short letter of support by an instructor who knows the applicant. Applications should be sent to camboni at unimc.it by 4 April 2010 at the latest. -------------------------- -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Thu Oct 29 16:36:39 2009 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2009 21:36:39 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] bony... Message-ID: <4b65c2d70910291336k5456a8dei45692c304d9bc794@mail.gmail.com> * The Paleontologist?s Blind Date* *You have such lovely bones,* he says, holding my face in his hands, and although I can almost feel the stone and the sand sifting away, his fingers like the softest of brushes, I realize after this touch he would know me years from now, even in the dark, even without my skin. *Thank you,* I smile? then I close the door and never call him again. by* Philip Memmer of Deansboro, N.Y.* Welcome to American Life in Poetry. For information on permissions and usage, or to download a PDF version of the column, visit www.americanlifeinpoetry.org . ****************************** American Life in Poetry: Column 240 BY TED KOOSER, U.S. POET LAUREATE, 2004-2006 American Life in Poetry is made possible by The Poetry Foundation ( www.poetryfoundation.org), publisher of *Poetry* magazine. It is also supported by the Department of English at the University of Nebraska, Lincoln. Poem copyright ?2008 by Philip Memmer, whose most recent book of poetry is *Lucifer: A Hagiography*, Lost Horse Press, 2009. Poem reprinted from *Threat of Pleasure,* Word Press, 2008, by permission of Philip Memmer and the publisher. The introduction?s author, Ted Kooser, served as United States Poet Laureate Consultant in Poetry to the Library of Congress from 2004-2006. We do not accept unsolicited manuscripts. ****************************** -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From obodooha at gmail.com Fri Oct 30 08:22:08 2009 From: obodooha at gmail.com (Obododimma Oha) Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2009 04:22:08 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] Happy Birthday In-Reply-To: <4b65c2d70910291203i6487f384ka7745d83e5a66976@mail.gmail.com> References: <4b65c2d70910291203i6487f384ka7745d83e5a66976@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Wonderful! Thanks, Anny. I have just mailed an article to NEXT, a Nigerian newspaper in which I have a column called "S(h)ibboleth". The article, incidentally, is about the "worship" of the computer and the Web, and does make an excursus to how it was in the early days in my country. I will share the article with you on Tuesday (when it is published), for the terms of my agreement with NEXT forbid publishing my article elsewhere. Wishing you and other Netizens a lovely weekend and happy anniversary, Obododimma. On Thu, Oct 29, 2009 at 11:03 AM, Anny Ballardini wrote: > to the Internet! > 40 years old today, :-) > > > > -- > Anny Ballardini > http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ > http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome > http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 > http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html > I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing > star! > Friedrich Nietzsche > > ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique > vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? > Giovenale > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Obododimma Oha http://udude.wordpress.com/ Dept. of English University of Ibadan Nigeria & Fellow, Centre for Peace & Conflict Studies University of Ibadan Phone: +234 803 333 1330; +234 805 350 6604; +234 808 264 8060. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Fri Oct 30 09:34:18 2009 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2009 14:34:18 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Happy Birthday In-Reply-To: References: <4b65c2d70910291203i6487f384ka7745d83e5a66976@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4b65c2d70910300634u88254f7t56cee99491225343@mail.gmail.com> We'll be waiting to read your work! Have a nice day you all, beautiful sunshine here... On Fri, Oct 30, 2009 at 1:22 PM, Obododimma Oha wrote: > Wonderful! Thanks, Anny. I have just mailed an article to NEXT, a Nigerian > newspaper in which I have a column called "S(h)ibboleth". The article, > incidentally, is about the "worship" of the computer and the Web, and does > make an excursus to how it was in the early days in my country. I will share > the article with you on Tuesday (when it is published), for the terms of my > agreement with NEXT forbid publishing my article elsewhere. > > > > Wishing you and other Netizens a lovely weekend and happy anniversary, > > Obododimma. > > > > On Thu, Oct 29, 2009 at 11:03 AM, Anny Ballardini < > anny.ballardini at gmail.com> wrote: > >> to the Internet! >> 40 years old today, :-) >> >> >> >> -- >> Anny Ballardini >> http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ >> http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome >> http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 >> http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html >> I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing >> star! >> Friedrich Nietzsche >> >> ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique >> vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? >> Giovenale >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > > > -- > Obododimma Oha > http://udude.wordpress.com/ > > Dept. of English > University of Ibadan > Nigeria > > & > > Fellow, Centre for Peace & Conflict Studies > University of Ibadan > > Phone: +234 803 333 1330; > +234 805 350 6604; > +234 808 264 8060. > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Opus40-01 at opus40.org Fri Oct 30 10:43:22 2009 From: Opus40-01 at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2009 10:43:22 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] RIP Morton Marcus Message-ID: <4AEAFB8A.3050104@opus40.org> Morty Marcus, classmate at Iowa, thorny but good guy, did some valuable work as poet and teacher. Morton Marcus, one of Santa Cruz's most prominent literary figures, died today at his home in Santa Cruz after a long battle with renal cancer. He was 73. Marcus leaves a legacy of influence in at least three separate spheres. He was internationally recognized poet, having published 10 books of poetry. He was also a celebrated film critic and historian. And, for 30 years, he was a mainstay on the English Department faculty at Cabrillo College. A former Santa Cruz County Artist of the Year (1999), Marcus just last year published his 500-plus-page memoir "Striking Through the Masks," which served as both autobiography and re-evaluation of poets and writers of his generation. His final book of poems, to be titled "The Dark Figure in the Doorway," is slated for 2010 release. "He was larger than life," said Santa Cruz poet Joe Stroud who knew Marcus for more than 40 years. "Mort loved nothing more than to have a meal and to have a conversation. I think of him as a conductor almost, eating and drinking and driving the conversation this way and that. It was unforgettable experience." Marcus's fingerprints are everywhere in Santa Cruz literary circles. He led a free-wheeling film discussion group twice a month at the Nickelodeon, up to his last days. He was the co-host of a popular public-access TV program on film called "Cinema Scene." Until recently, he hosted KUSP's "Poetry Show." And he influenced hundreds of students over the years at Cabrillo College. Marcus was born and grew up in New York City. As he outlined in "Masks," his early life was a time of severe emotional trauma. His father left when the boy was 3 and Marcus was shuttled back and forth between boarding schools, between bouts of watching his mother endure abuse at the hands of a stepfather. "He began his life in such an unpromising way, with so many strikes against him," said Mark Ong, a long-time friend and student who helped design many of Marcus's books. "It's a real testament to what was inside him that he became the man he did. I used to call him up and say, 'Why are you not insane?'" After a youthful flirtation with boxing and a stint in the Air Force, Marcus came to California in the early 1960s, and to Santa Cruz in 1968. "When Mort came to Santa Cruz, there was no poetry scene whatsoever," said Stroud. "He developed the reading series at Cabrillo and in various restaurants and bookstores, bringing such poets as Vasko Popa, Michael McClure and, Al Young among many others." He began publishing in the 1960s and achieved a wide readership with his volume "The Santa Cruz Mountain Poems," which, said Stroud, seemed to capture a distinct back-to-nature essence of the period. "Mort was a master of so many different kinds of poetry. Lyric poetry, comic, cosmic, prose poetry. In fact, during the last part of his career, he really became one of the finest in the world at prose poems." At Cabrillo, where he also served as the president of the Teacher's Union, Marcus was known as a great lecturer, and those public speaking skills carried over in his discussions at the Nickelodeon, which attracted a loyal core audience for years. He traveled widely, reading his poetry in workshops and serving as poet in residence at universities across the country. In his later years, he wrote poetry, translated work from the Serbian poet Vasko Popa, and composed a libretto for an opera. He also helped edit a history of the Croatians in the Pajaro Valley written by his wife Donna Mekis and his sister-in-law Kathryn Mekis Miller. "Mort was a giant, loving intellect where you could have rich, very in depth discussions about almost any subject," said longtime friend George Ow Jr. "If you wanted to discuss any movie subject, Chinese poetry over the last 3,000 years, Greek and Roman mythology, hiking paths of Greece and Crete, best places to stay in Prague or Croatia, the history of Cabrillo College, New York City baseball, the San Francisco 49ers or anything else, you would have a good time and learn a lot." Mark Ong said that Marcus, both as a teacher and a friend, demanded excellence but recognized the difficulty in achieving it. "He was a person of integrity and great dignity and lived what he espoused," said Ong. "(His was) a life of inquiry, a life of rigor, a life devoted to excellence." "He was a man of incredible energy," said Stroud. "He had enormous passions and he pursued them with zeal. He lived the life of the mind, and he lived the life of the heart as well." -- Tad Richards Read my NY Writing Careers Examiner column today! http://www.examiner.com/x-2862-NY-Writing-Careers-Examiner http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ From jbalizsprince at googlemail.com Fri Oct 30 13:36:50 2009 From: jbalizsprince at googlemail.com (Judy Prince) Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2009 13:36:50 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: The Whole Island: Cuban Poetry Anthology (November 5) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7db1d01b0910301036y5311aae8x334afca774eee34c@mail.gmail.com> Your book sounds terrific, Mark; I'm eager to read it! Best, Judy 2009/10/28 Mark Weiss > > [image: Visit Americas Society Online] Literature > at Americas Society > Americas Society ?? 680 Park Avenue, New York, NY 10065 ?? > www.americas-society.org > > Book presentation and readings (bilingual) > > > *The Whole Island: Six Decades of Cuban Poetry* > > > *University of California Press* > > > > *Thursday, November 5 > 7:00 pm > Free admission* > > > > Editor Mark Weiss will read with Christopher Winks, Margaret Carson, and > Iraida Iturralde from his new anthology, the first comprehensive bilingual > overview of Cuban poetry to be published during the past sixty years, > compiling a breadth of iconic authors including Nicol??s Guill??n, Jos?? > Lezama Lima, and Nancy Morej??n, as well as poets who remain almost unknown > to the English-speaking world, such as Fina Garc??a Marruz, Jos?? Kozer, and > Ra??l Hern??ndez Novas. The anthology is an essential source for > understanding the literature and culture of Cuba, its diaspora, and the > Caribbean at large. "A masterwork of cartography: a map of what is, for > English-language readers, an almost entirely unexplored territory, full of > poets at home or in the diaspora whom we ought to know."?Eliott Weinberger > This event has been organized in collaboration with the Cuban Cultural > Center of New York > > *Reservations:* > Americas Society Members: Reserve today at membersres at americas-society.org. > > Non-Members: Reservations open today. Reserve online today. > > Americas Society gratefully acknowledges the generous support of our > Literature Program donors: Honorary Benefactor Amalia Lacroze de Fortabat, > The Reed Foundation, and the Program for Cultural Cooperation between > Spain's Ministry of Culture and U.S. Universities. The Literature Program is > also made possible, in part, with public funds from the New York State > Council on the Arts, a State Agency, and the New York City Department of > Cultural Affairs. In-kind support is provided by the Sal??n Literario > Libroam??rica. > back to top <#1249e568a0cefdd5_top> > > *Culture Programs Reservations* > > *Americas Society Members* - Reserve your FREE tickets today for > guaranteed admission to our culture programs this season and Members-only > Meet-the-Artist receptions! Email membersres at americas-society.org or call > (212) 277 8359 ext. 4. > > *Not yet a Member?* Don't be left out! Join today to guarantee your free > admission to our culture programs. Learn more about member benefits, > and email membership at americas-society.org, or call (212) 277 8359 ext. 4 > to join. > > *Non-Members Admission* - Limited seating will be available five business > days prior to each Culture program on a first-come, first-served basis. > Please visit our events calendarfor registration information. > > *Location and Hours > * > All our culture programs are free, open to the public, and take place at > Americas Society, unless noted. We are located at 680 Park Avenue at 68th > Street in New York City. To arrive by public transportation, take the *6*train to > *68th Street / Hunter College*. Map. > For wheelchair access, kindly call in advance. > > Gallery hours are Wednesdays to Saturdays from 12 pm to 6 pm. > > For more information, visit www.americas-society.org. > If you have questions or comments, please email us at > culture at americas-society.org > . > > *Mailing List > * > Use these links to Join our Culture Email List, > Leave our Culture Email Listor Change > your Email Address. > Forward this email to a friend > . > > The Americas Society/Council of the Americas does not share your > information with third parties. > > *About Americas Society > * > Americas Society is the premier forum dedicated to education, debate and > dialogue in the Americas. Our mission is to foster an understanding of the > contemporary political, social and economic issues confronting Latin > America, the Caribbean and Canada, and to increase public awareness and > appreciation of the diverse cultural heritage of the Americas and the > importance of the inter-American relationship. > > Image: *The Whole Island: Six Decades of Cuban Poetry*, image courtesy of > University of CA Press. > [image: []] > > Announcing *The Whole Island: Six Decades of Cuban Poetry* (University of > California Press). > Forthcoming in November 2009. > http://go.ucpress.edu/WholeIsland > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Sat Oct 31 04:00:46 2009 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sat, 31 Oct 2009 09:00:46 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] a spooktacular program! Message-ID: <4b65c2d70910310100u26805eccw541186a6b2c1c80d@mail.gmail.com> Island of *INSANITY!* Halloween night at 7, a spooktacular program of great classical music guaranteed to raise the little hairs on the back of your neck. and here is my Halloween pOm: In the mirrored image of the mirrored window which of the witches watch the one that yabbers more on witches is the wicked watching witch that widows wide her wigged wiggery wiggling wild at night her whale winkie wrestling like devilish wreckers bloodshot wildfires swooshing her wens in the wind her wretched wrybill wrinkles all cyberwrest In the mirrored image of the mirrored window which of the witches watch as a wringing wraith she wrecks and wrangles only wrack and wrongo in her whacked track wrapping weaving sucking her whanging wings wry her welked wax eye to terrify westing wyverns wroth we weenchy wait without wharf with w?stite wurtzite and wulfenite _this be writ In the mirrored image of the mirrored window which of the witches watch -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From junction at earthlink.net Sat Oct 31 10:21:00 2009 From: junction at earthlink.net (Mark Weiss) Date: Sat, 31 Oct 2009 10:21:00 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] a spooktacular program! In-Reply-To: <4b65c2d70910310100u26805eccw541186a6b2c1c80d@mail.gmail.co m> References: <4b65c2d70910310100u26805eccw541186a6b2c1c80d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: This one's by Soleida R?os (my translation). THE WITCH?S BIRD To Joel James The bird was born of a machete?s blade It?s nothing like mockingbird blackbird or mournful dove: it was born of a machete?s blade not from some old bird?s white egg. Neither skylark nor quetzal nor the buzzard that anxiously tracks last footsteps, it lives in The Witch?s song. It makes its nest there, and it sings like the birds of sea and forest. It goads the mules. Implacable, in foul weather it flies above a hut?s palm thatch and someone must die. From March to October it?s the bird?s fault: if lightning strikes the midst of a palm tree if the river floods if a verse comes infinitely slowly bearing the aroma of the last of the coffee in every case?from March to October? it?s the bird?s fault. 2 They say that once a pair of friends found themselves in the night near the Witch's song, where they had gathered for a bout of magic, and that they brought forth the enormous urn of amulets and bones that had been till then the secret they held in trust for believers. They say that something came among them in that place where the bonds of the human are broken; but no one really knows. And that machetes were drawn. 3 The bird was born on the last violent rung of the heart hidden deep within the breast. No one can see it though it has flown over all the heights of the mountains. At 04:00 AM 10/31/2009, you wrote: >Island >of >INSANITY! >Halloween >night at 7, a >spooktacular program of great >classical music guaranteed to >raise the little hairs on the back >of your neck. > >and here is my Halloween pOm: > > >In the mirrored image of the mirrored window >which of the witches >watch > >the one that yabbers more on witches >is the wicked watching witch that widows >wide her wigged wiggery wiggling wild at night >her whale winkie wrestling like devilish wreckers >bloodshot wildfires swooshing her wens in the wind >her wretched wrybill wrinkles all cyberwrest > >In the mirrored image of the mirrored window >which of the witches >watch > >as a wringing wraith she wrecks and wrangles >only wrack and wrongo in her whacked track >wrapping weaving sucking her whanging wings >wry her welked wax eye to terrify westing wyverns >wroth we weenchy wait without wharf >with w?stite wurtzite and wulfenite _this be writ > >In the mirrored image of the mirrored window >which of the witches >watch > > > > >-- >Anny Ballardini >http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ >http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome >http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 >http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html >I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! >Friedrich Nietzsche > >? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique >vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? >Giovenale > >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry Announcing The Whole Island: Six Decades of Cuban Poetry (University of California Press). Forthcoming in November 2009. http://go.ucpress.edu/WholeIsland From obodooha at gmail.com Sat Oct 31 13:26:54 2009 From: obodooha at gmail.com (Obododimma Oha) Date: Sat, 31 Oct 2009 09:26:54 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: New Fogged Clarity, featuring Pinchbeck interview, Hemingway story In-Reply-To: <7a492c3d0910300857n5478626jb04b64a1695505f3@mail.gmail.com> References: <7a492c3d0910300857n5478626jb04b64a1695505f3@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: The November issue of Fogged Clarity is up. Ben Evans sits down with the enigmatic Daniel Pinchbeck, John Hemingway and Bruce Bromley debut new short stories, Parisian artist *Fran?oise Nielly shares her beauty, we stream Stuart Bogie?s latest album, Fall Down Seven Times, Stand up Eight, C.N. Bean and Catherine Strisik?s poems compel, and Scott Hightower reviews the most recent collections from poets Terese Svoboda and Lee Briccetti.* ** www.foggedclarity.com -- Executive Editor, "Fogged Clarity" www.foggedclarity.com Ben Evans -- Obododimma Oha http://udude.wordpress.com/ Dept. of English University of Ibadan Nigeria & Fellow, Centre for Peace & Conflict Studies University of Ibadan Phone: +234 803 333 1330; +234 805 350 6604; +234 808 264 8060. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From obodooha at gmail.com Sat Oct 31 13:28:10 2009 From: obodooha at gmail.com (Obododimma Oha) Date: Sat, 31 Oct 2009 09:28:10 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: Issue 15 of Otoliths is now live In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: In a switch on the normal All Hallows' Eve tradition, the someone who's come knocking at your door is bringing *you* candy. No tricks, just treats. Issue 15, the southern spring 2009 issue, of Otolithshas just gone live, & has in its basket a wondrous variety of text & visuals?sometimes both?from Ray Craig, Crag Hill, Andrew Topel, Jeff Harrison, James Mc Laughlin, Bob Heman, Arpine Konyalian Grenier, Tyler Flynn Dorholt, Philip Byron Oakes, Chris Gordon, Louise Norlie, Donald Dunbar & Andrew Lundwall, Raymond Farr, M?rton Kopp?ny, Halvard Johnson, Kathleen Rooney, Rodger Lowenthal, Travis Macdonald, John J. Trause, Kat Dixon, John M. Bennett, Baron & John M. Bennett, Sheila E. Murphy & John M. Bennett, Robert van Vliet, Cecelia Chapman & Jeff Crouch, Yoko Danno, Charles Clifford Brooks III, j/j hastain, Daniel f Bradley, Tim Marcuson, Michael Brandonisio, Lance Newman, Adam Katz, Andy Martrich, Jeff Klooger, Yonah Korngold, John Martone, Bill Drennan, Karri Kokko, David Berridge, Ira Joel Haber, Marcia Arrieta, Martin Edmond, Andrew Topel & John M. Bennett, Felino Soriano, Jal Nicholl, Ed Baker, Tony Rickaby, Sam Schild, Paul Siegell, Tom Beckett, Grzegorz Wr?blewski, David-Baptiste Chirot, Jon Curley, sean burn, Tim Kahl, Mara Patricia Hernandez, PD Mallamo, Carlyle Baker, Bobbi Lurie, John Moore Williams, Dominic Amerena, & Spencer Selby. So turn on the porchlight, & get reading. Mark Young -- Obododimma Oha http://udude.wordpress.com/ Dept. of English University of Ibadan Nigeria & Fellow, Centre for Peace & Conflict Studies University of Ibadan Phone: +234 803 333 1330; +234 805 350 6604; +234 808 264 8060. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Sat Oct 31 14:40:53 2009 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sat, 31 Oct 2009 19:40:53 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] a spooktacular program! In-Reply-To: References: <4b65c2d70910310100u26805eccw541186a6b2c1c80d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4b65c2d70910311140m4a06854er446971e721962974@mail.gmail.com> An exceptional poem, thank you. With your permission I would like to direct it to my blog, but if you do not wish so, that is fine with me, don't worry. On Sat, Oct 31, 2009 at 3:21 PM, Mark Weiss wrote: > This one's by Soleida R?os (my translation). > > THE WITCH?S BIRD > To Joel > James > > The bird was born of a machete?s blade > It?s nothing like mockingbird > blackbird or mournful dove: > it was born of a machete?s blade > not from some old bird?s white egg. > > Neither skylark nor quetzal > nor the buzzard that anxiously tracks last footsteps, > it lives in The Witch?s song. It makes its nest there, > and it sings like the birds of sea and forest. > It goads the mules. Implacable, in foul weather > it flies above a hut?s palm thatch > and someone must die. > > From March to October it?s the bird?s fault: > if lightning strikes the midst of a palm tree > if the river floods > if a verse comes infinitely slowly > bearing the aroma of the last of the coffee > in every case?from March to October? > it?s the bird?s fault. > > 2 > They say that once a pair of friends > found themselves in the night > near the Witch's song, where they had gathered > for a bout of magic, > and that they brought forth the enormous urn > of amulets and bones that had been till then > the secret they held > in trust for believers. > They say that something came among them > in that place where the bonds of the human > are broken; but no one really knows. > And that machetes were drawn. > > 3 > The bird was born on the last violent rung > of the heart hidden deep within the breast. > No one can see it > though it has flown over all the heights > of the mountains. > > > At 04:00 AM 10/31/2009, you wrote: > >> < >> http://blogs.kdfc.com/dnicolini/2009/10/28/island-of-insanity-for-halloween/>Island >> of < >> http://blogs.kdfc.com/dnicolini/2009/10/28/island-of-insanity-for-halloween/>INSANITY! >> < >> http://blogs.kdfc.com/dnicolini/2009/10/28/island-of-insanity-for-halloween/>Halloween >> night at 7, a >> >> spooktacular program of great >> classical music guaranteed to >> raise the little hairs on the back >> of your neck. >> >> and here is my Halloween pOm: >> >> >> In the mirrored image of the mirrored window >> which of the witches >> watch >> >> the one that yabbers more on witches >> is the wicked watching witch that widows >> wide her wigged wiggery wiggling wild at night >> her whale winkie wrestling like devilish wreckers >> bloodshot wildfires swooshing her wens in the wind >> her wretched wrybill wrinkles all cyberwrest >> >> In the mirrored image of the mirrored window >> which of the witches >> watch >> >> as a wringing wraith she wrecks and wrangles >> only wrack and wrongo in her whacked track >> wrapping weaving sucking her whanging wings >> wry her welked wax eye to terrify westing wyverns >> wroth we weenchy wait without wharf >> with w?stite wurtzite and wulfenite _this be writ >> >> In the mirrored image of the mirrored window >> which of the witches >> watch >> >> >> >> >> -- >> Anny Ballardini >> http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ >> >> http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome >> http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 >> >> http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html >> I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing >> star! >> Friedrich Nietzsche >> >> ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique >> vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? >> Giovenale >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> > > Announcing The Whole Island: Six Decades of Cuban Poetry (University of > California Press). > Forthcoming in November 2009. > http://go.ucpress.edu/WholeIsland > > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From junction at earthlink.net Sat Oct 31 14:58:46 2009 From: junction at earthlink.net (Mark Weiss) Date: Sat, 31 Oct 2009 14:58:46 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] a spooktacular program! In-Reply-To: <4b65c2d70910311140m4a06854er446971e721962974@mail.gmail.co m> References: <4b65c2d70910310100u26805eccw541186a6b2c1c80d@mail.gmail.com> <4b65c2d70910311140m4a06854er446971e721962974@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Please do. But say that it's included in The Whole Island: Six Decades of Cuban Poetry (University of California Press), edited by Mark Weiss. At 02:40 PM 10/31/2009, you wrote: >An exceptional poem, thank you. With your >permission I would like to direct it to my blog, >but if you do not wish so, that is fine with me, don't worry. > >On Sat, Oct 31, 2009 at 3:21 PM, Mark Weiss ><junction at earthlink.net> wrote: >This one's by Soleida R?os (my translation). > >THE WITCH?S BIRD > To Joel James > >The bird was born of a machete?s blade >It?s nothing like mockingbird >blackbird or mournful dove: >it was born of a machete?s blade >not from some old bird?s white egg. > >Neither skylark nor quetzal >nor the buzzard that anxiously tracks last footsteps, >it lives in The Witch?s song. It makes its nest there, >and it sings like the birds of sea and forest. >It goads the mules. Implacable, in foul weather >it flies above a hut?s palm thatch >and someone must die. > > >From March to October it?s the bird?s fault: >if lightning strikes the midst of a palm tree >if the river floods >if a verse comes infinitely slowly >bearing the aroma of the last of the coffee >in every case?from March to October? >it?s the bird?s fault. > >2 >They say that once a pair of friends >found themselves in the night >near the Witch's song, where they had gathered >for a bout of magic, >and that they brought forth the enormous urn >of amulets and bones that had been till then >the secret they held >in trust for believers. >They say that something came among them >in that place where the bonds of the human >are broken; but no one really knows. >And that machetes were drawn. > >3 >The bird was born on the last violent rung >of the heart hidden deep within the breast. >No one can see it >though it has flown over all the heights >of the mountains. > > >At 04:00 AM 10/31/2009, you wrote: ><http://blogs.kdfc.com/dnicolini/2009/10/28/island-of-insanity-for-halloween/>Island >of ><http://blogs.kdfc.com/dnicolini/2009/10/28/island-of-insanity-for-halloween/>INSANITY! ><http://blogs.kdfc.com/dnicolini/2009/10/28/island-of-insanity-for-halloween/>Halloween >night at 7, a > >spooktacular program of great >classical music guaranteed to >raise the little hairs on the back >of your neck. > >and here is my Halloween pOm: > > >In the mirrored image of the mirrored window >which of the witches >watch > >the one that yabbers more on witches >is the wicked watching witch that widows >wide her wigged wiggery wiggling wild at night >her whale winkie wrestling like devilish wreckers >bloodshot wildfires swooshing her wens in the wind >her wretched wrybill wrinkles all cyberwrest > >In the mirrored image of the mirrored window >which of the witches >watch > >as a wringing wraith she wrecks and wrangles >only wrack and wrongo in her whacked track >wrapping weaving sucking her whanging wings >wry her welked wax eye to terrify westing wyverns >wroth we weenchy wait without wharf >with w?stite wurtzite and wulfenite _this be writ > >In the mirrored image of the mirrored window >which of the witches >watch > > > > >-- >Anny Ballardini ><http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/>http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ > >http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome >http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 > >http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html >I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! >Friedrich Nietzsche > >? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique >vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? >Giovenale > >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > >Announcing The Whole Island: Six Decades of >Cuban Poetry (University of California Press). >Forthcoming in November 2009. >http://go.ucpress.edu/WholeIsland > > > > >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > >-- >Anny Ballardini >http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ >http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome >http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 >http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html >I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! >Friedrich Nietzsche > >? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique >vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? >Giovenale > >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry Announcing The Whole Island: Six Decades of Cuban Poetry (University of California Press). Forthcoming in November 2009. http://go.ucpress.edu/WholeIsland From grahamd at ripon.edu Sat Oct 31 16:25:45 2009 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Sat, 31 Oct 2009 15:25:45 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] From Silliman's blog Message-ID: Exhibit A: "And several of Friedlander?s implicit & explicit value judgments strike me as perfectly reasonable ? Four Quartets is an unforgivably turgid, even stupid piece of writing, Joanne Kyger?s poetry will prove far 'more lasting' than that of Robert Frost, Lowell is for the most part unbearable (and some of Duncan is likewise). . . . " Exhibit B, later in the same post: "A history of recent writing that is idiosyncratic to the point of seeming arbitrary isn?t just to drive on the wrong side of the road, but to leave the road entirely, plowing through back yards & fields alike." ============== It's not clear from these snippets, but what Ron Silliman is getting exercised about is Ben Friedlander calling Marianne Moore the "center" of Modernism. That is not a question that keeps me up nights, whatever my answer to it might be. But as to Joanne Kyger's work lasting (or "lasting") longer than Robert Frost's, well, I'd take that wager. The full post is here, under Wednesday 10/28/09: http://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/ ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.me.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Sat Oct 31 15:23:55 2009 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sat, 31 Oct 2009 20:23:55 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] a spooktacular program! In-Reply-To: References: <4b65c2d70910310100u26805eccw541186a6b2c1c80d@mail.gmail.com> <4b65c2d70910311140m4a06854er446971e721962974@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4b65c2d70910311223k3ff872b7s3bd8896f7c7d82f0@mail.gmail.com> I did, thank you. Here is the direct link: http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/2009/10/witchs-bird-by-soleida-rios.html On Sat, Oct 31, 2009 at 7:58 PM, Mark Weiss wrote: > Please do. But say that it's included in The Whole Island: Six Decades of > Cuban Poetry (University of California Press), edited by Mark Weiss. > > > At 02:40 PM 10/31/2009, you wrote: > >> An exceptional poem, thank you. With your permission I would like to >> direct it to my blog, but if you do not wish so, that is fine with me, don't >> worry. >> >> On Sat, Oct 31, 2009 at 3:21 PM, Mark Weiss <> junction at earthlink.net>junction at earthlink.net> wrote: >> This one's by Soleida R?os (my translation). >> >> THE WITCH?S BIRD >> To Joel >> James >> >> The bird was born of a machete?s blade >> It?s nothing like mockingbird >> blackbird or mournful dove: >> it was born of a machete?s blade >> not from some old bird?s white egg. >> >> Neither skylark nor quetzal >> nor the buzzard that anxiously tracks last footsteps, >> it lives in The Witch?s song. It makes its nest there, >> and it sings like the birds of sea and forest. >> It goads the mules. Implacable, in foul weather >> it flies above a hut?s palm thatch >> and someone must die. >> >> >From March to October it?s the bird?s fault: >> if lightning strikes the midst of a palm tree >> if the river floods >> if a verse comes infinitely slowly >> bearing the aroma of the last of the coffee >> in every case?from March to October? >> it?s the bird?s fault. >> >> 2 >> They say that once a pair of friends >> found themselves in the night >> near the Witch's song, where they had gathered >> for a bout of magic, >> and that they brought forth the enormous urn >> of amulets and bones that had been till then >> the secret they held >> in trust for believers. >> They say that something came among them >> in that place where the bonds of the human >> are broken; but no one really knows. >> And that machetes were drawn. >> >> 3 >> The bird was born on the last violent rung >> of the heart hidden deep within the breast. >> No one can see it >> though it has flown over all the heights >> of the mountains. >> >> >> At 04:00 AM 10/31/2009, you wrote: >> << >> http://blogs.kdfc.com/dnicolini/2009/10/28/island-of-insanity-for-halloween/ >> > >> http://blogs.kdfc.com/dnicolini/2009/10/28/island-of-insanity-for-halloween/>Island >> of << >> http://blogs.kdfc.com/dnicolini/2009/10/28/island-of-insanity-for-halloween/ >> > >> http://blogs.kdfc.com/dnicolini/2009/10/28/island-of-insanity-for-halloween/>INSANITY! >> << >> http://blogs.kdfc.com/dnicolini/2009/10/28/island-of-insanity-for-halloween/ >> > >> http://blogs.kdfc.com/dnicolini/2009/10/28/island-of-insanity-for-halloween/>Halloween >> night at 7, a >> >> >> spooktacular program of great >> classical music guaranteed to >> raise the little hairs on the back >> of your neck. >> >> and here is my Halloween pOm: >> >> >> In the mirrored image of the mirrored window >> which of the witches >> watch >> >> the one that yabbers more on witches >> is the wicked watching witch that widows >> wide her wigged wiggery wiggling wild at night >> her whale winkie wrestling like devilish wreckers >> bloodshot wildfires swooshing her wens in the wind >> her wretched wrybill wrinkles all cyberwrest >> >> In the mirrored image of the mirrored window >> which of the witches >> watch >> >> as a wringing wraith she wrecks and wrangles >> only wrack and wrongo in her whacked track >> wrapping weaving sucking her whanging wings >> wry her welked wax eye to terrify westing wyverns >> wroth we weenchy wait without wharf >> with w?stite wurtzite and wulfenite _this be writ >> >> In the mirrored image of the mirrored window >> which of the witches >> watch >> >> >> >> >> -- >> Anny Ballardini >> <http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ >> >http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ >> >> >> http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome >> > >http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 >> >> >> http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html >> I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing >> star! >> Friedrich Nietzsche >> >> ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique >> vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? >> Giovenale >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> >> Announcing The Whole Island: Six Decades of Cuban Poetry (University of >> California Press). >> Forthcoming in November 2009. >> http://go.ucpress.edu/WholeIsland >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> >> >> >> -- >> Anny Ballardini >> http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ >> http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome >> http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 >> http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html >> I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing >> star! >> Friedrich Nietzsche >> >> ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique >> vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? >> Giovenale >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> > > Announcing The Whole Island: Six Decades of Cuban Poetry (University of > California Press). > Forthcoming in November 2009. > http://go.ucpress.edu/WholeIsland > > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: