From Opus40-01 at opus40.org  Tue Dec  1 01:39:58 2009
From: Opus40-01 at opus40.org (TheOldMole)
Date: Tue, 01 Dec 2009 01:39:58 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Last minute query on question poems
In-Reply-To: <518926.6683.qm@web34205.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <518926.6683.qm@web34205.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4B14BA3E.2080302@opus40.org>

And did we mention the one about telling the dancer from the dance?

Brian Hawkins wrote:
> Two more Yeatses spring to mind:
>
> the one that ends "What would they say / did their Catullus walk that 
> way?"
> and the magnificent No Second Troy ending
>
> "Was there another Troy for her to burn?"
>
> Brian
>
> --- On *Tue, 1/12/09, David Graham /<grahamd at ripon.edu>/* wrote:
>
>
>     From: David Graham <grahamd at ripon.edu>
>     Subject: [New-Poetry] Last minute query on question poems
>     To: "NewPoetry" <new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
>     Received: Tuesday, 1 December, 2009, 3:43 AM
>
>     For an exercise in my poetry workshop later today I'm planning to
>     read some  excerpts from Neruda's *Book of Questions,*  and it
>     occurred to me it might be nice to take a few other examples of
>     poems that center around posing--but not answering--questions.  Of
>     course I'm planning to mention "Among School Children"--but what
>     are some other favorites?
>
>     I've no doubt that the assembled experts here can remind me of
>     some I've forgotten, not to mention introducing me to ones I don't
>     know.
>
>
>     -- 
>
>
>     ====================================================
>     David Graham
>     grahamd at ripon.edu
>     Home Page:
>     http://web.me.com/drjazz/
>
>     Poetry Library:
>     http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html
>     ====================================================
>
>
>
>     -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
>
>     _______________________________________________
>     New-Poetry mailing list
>     New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu </mc/compose?to=New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
>     http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Win 1 of 4 Sony home entertainment packs thanks to Yahoo!7. Enter now 
> <http://us.lrd.yahoo.com/_ylc=X3oDMTJxN2x2ZmNpBF9zAzIwMjM2MTY2MTMEdG1fZG1lY2gDVGV4dCBMaW5rBHRtX2xuawNVMTEwMzk3NwR0bV9uZXQDWWFob28hBHRtX3BvcwN0YWdsaW5lBHRtX3BwdHkDYXVueg--/SIG=14600t3ni/**http%3A//au.rd.yahoo.com/mail/tagline/sony/*http%3A//au.docs.yahoo.com/homepageset/%3Fp1=other%26p2=au%26p3=mailtagline>. 
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>   

-- 
Tad Richards
Read my NY Writing Careers Examiner column today!
http://www.examiner.com/x-2862-NY-Writing-Careers-Examiner

http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/
http://opusforty.blogspot.com/



From brian_tuney at yahoo.com  Tue Dec  1 02:35:58 2009
From: brian_tuney at yahoo.com (Brian Hawkins)
Date: Mon, 30 Nov 2009 23:35:58 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [New-Poetry] Last minute query on question poems
In-Reply-To: <4B14BA3E.2080302@opus40.org>
Message-ID: <151181.80122.qm@web34208.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

It's too late I imagine, but one of the greatest of question poems must be that ballade by Francois Villon (part of his Testament I think) with the refrain Mais ou sont les neiges d'antan? (But where are the snows of yesteryear?) 

Brian

--- On Tue, 1/12/09, TheOldMole <Opus40-01 at opus40.org> wrote:

From: TheOldMole <Opus40-01 at opus40.org>
Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Last minute query on question poems
To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views" <new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
Received: Tuesday, 1 December, 2009, 5:39 PM

And did we mention the one about telling the dancer from the dance?

Brian Hawkins wrote:
> Two more Yeatses spring to mind:
>
> the one that ends "What would they say / did their Catullus walk that 
> way?"
> and the magnificent No Second Troy ending
>
> "Was there another Troy for her to burn?"
>
> Brian
>
> --- On *Tue, 1/12/09, David Graham /<grahamd at ripon.edu>/* wrote:
>
>
>? ???From: David Graham <grahamd at ripon.edu>
>? ???Subject: [New-Poetry] Last minute query on question poems
>? ???To: "NewPoetry" <new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
>? ???Received: Tuesday, 1 December, 2009, 3:43 AM
>
>? ???For an exercise in my poetry workshop later today I'm planning to
>? ???read some? excerpts from Neruda's *Book of Questions,*? and it
>? ???occurred to me it might be nice to take a few other examples of
>? ???poems that center around posing--but not answering--questions.? Of
>? ???course I'm planning to mention "Among School Children"--but what
>? ???are some other favorites?
>
>? ???I've no doubt that the assembled experts here can remind me of
>? ???some I've forgotten, not to mention introducing me to ones I don't
>? ???know.
>
>
>? ???-- 
>
>
>? ???====================================================
>? ???David Graham
>? ???grahamd at ripon.edu
>? ???Home Page:
>? ???http://web.me.com/drjazz/
>
>? ???Poetry Library:
>? ???http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html
>? ???====================================================
>
>
>
>? ???-----Inline Attachment Follows-----
>
>? ???_______________________________________________
>? ???New-Poetry mailing list
>? ???New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu </mc/compose?to=New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
>? ???http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Win 1 of 4 Sony home entertainment packs thanks to Yahoo!7. Enter now 
> <http://us.lrd.yahoo.com/_ylc=X3oDMTJxN2x2ZmNpBF9zAzIwMjM2MTY2MTMEdG1fZG1lY2gDVGV4dCBMaW5rBHRtX2xuawNVMTEwMzk3NwR0bV9uZXQDWWFob28hBHRtX3BvcwN0YWdsaW5lBHRtX3BwdHkDYXVueg--/SIG=14600t3ni/**http%3A//au.rd.yahoo.com/mail/tagline/sony/*http%3A//au.docs.yahoo.com/homepageset/%3Fp1=other%26p2=au%26p3=mailtagline>. 
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>???

-- 
Tad Richards
Read my NY Writing Careers Examiner column today!
http://www.examiner.com/x-2862-NY-Writing-Careers-Examiner

http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/
http://opusforty.blogspot.com/

_______________________________________________
New-Poetry mailing list
New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry



      __________________________________________________________________________________
Win 1 of 4 Sony home entertainment packs thanks to Yahoo!7.
Enter now: http://au.docs.yahoo.com/homepageset/
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From obodooha at gmail.com  Tue Dec  1 14:10:09 2009
From: obodooha at gmail.com (Obododimma Oha)
Date: Tue, 1 Dec 2009 11:10:09 -0800
Subject: [New-Poetry] Arboreal
Message-ID: <a24092720912011110y6f675615pfa68c76a17f2c2b3@mail.gmail.com>

...
Was arboreal in the post-human, seven harams away from
sainthood<http://foggedclarity.com/2009/11/arboreal/>
.

Fuller text in the current issue of Fogged Clarity<http://foggedclarity.com/>
:

http://foggedclarity.com/2009/11/arboreal/


-- Obododimma
-- 
Obododimma Oha
http://udude.wordpress.com/

Dept. of English
University of Ibadan
Nigeria

&

Fellow, Centre for Peace & Conflict Studies
University of Ibadan

Phone: +234 803 333 1330;
           +234 805 350 6604;
           +234 808 264 8060.
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From anny.ballardini at gmail.com  Tue Dec  1 14:55:37 2009
From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Tue, 1 Dec 2009 20:55:37 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] Arboreal
In-Reply-To: <a24092720912011110y6f675615pfa68c76a17f2c2b3@mail.gmail.com>
References: <a24092720912011110y6f675615pfa68c76a17f2c2b3@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4b65c2d70912011155g6c6e80b2kda0bde992e2c54da@mail.gmail.com>

Very nice.

On Tue, Dec 1, 2009 at 8:10 PM, Obododimma Oha <obodooha at gmail.com> wrote:

> ...
> Was arboreal in the post-human, seven harams away from sainthood<http://foggedclarity.com/2009/11/arboreal/>
> .
>
> Fuller text in the current issue of Fogged Clarity<http://foggedclarity.com/>
> :
>
> http://foggedclarity.com/2009/11/arboreal/
>
>
> -- Obododimma
> --
> Obododimma Oha
> http://udude.wordpress.com/
>
> Dept. of English
> University of Ibadan
> Nigeria
>
> &
>
> Fellow, Centre for Peace & Conflict Studies
> University of Ibadan
>
> Phone: +234 803 333 1330;
>            +234 805 350 6604;
>            +234 808 264 8060.
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
>


-- 
Anny Ballardini
http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078
http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html
I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing
star!
Friedrich Nietzsche

? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique
vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ?
Giovenale
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From anny.ballardini at gmail.com  Tue Dec  1 14:56:39 2009
From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Tue, 1 Dec 2009 20:56:39 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] in this goddamned town...
Message-ID: <4b65c2d70912011156h4f417404q191a505246c510a9@mail.gmail.com>

 A MAN IS ONLY AS GOOD...


A man is only as good
as what he says to a dog
when he has to get up out of bed
in the middle of a wintry night
because some damned dog has been barking;

and he goes and opens the door
in his vest and boxer shorts
and there on the pock-marked wasteground
called a playing field out front
he finds the mutt with one paw

raised in expectation
and an expression that says Thank God
for a minute there I thought
there was no one awake but me
in this goddamned town.



? 2007, Pat Boran





 LISTEN HERE THE POET READING:
http://international.poetryinternationalweb.org/piw_cms/cms/cms_module/index.php?obj_id=15436

 Pat Boran page:
http://international.poetryinternationalweb.org/piw_cms/cms/cms_module/index.php?obj_id=15430





-- 
Anny Ballardini
http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078
http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html
I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing
star!
Friedrich Nietzsche

? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique
vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ?
Giovenale
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From jforjames at aol.com  Tue Dec  1 16:18:01 2009
From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 01 Dec 2009 16:18:01 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] more things to worry about: open mic v. open mike
Message-ID: <8CC40E2E5B5F85C-56A0-BC3A@webmail-m007.sysops.aol.com>

http://www.sambayer.com/tirades/whymike.html
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From anny.ballardini at gmail.com  Tue Dec  1 17:31:40 2009
From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Tue, 1 Dec 2009 23:31:40 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: Philosophy of Wallace Stevens talk, Dec. 3, 
	1pm, Tunxis CC
In-Reply-To: <8CC4043B38A1D52-4F40-10558@webmail-d033.sysops.aol.com>
References: <70b6586e0911230233n7a710ca6s237884887fb583b6@mail.gmail.com>
	<8CC3F817DB4B369-11D8-D6AD@webmail-m084.sysops.aol.com>
	<8CC4043B38A1D52-4F40-10558@webmail-d033.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <4b65c2d70912011431o4dd192d6pee237b804b64defd@mail.gmail.com>

CONGRATULATIONS !

On Tue, Dec 1, 2009 at 3:18 AM, <jforjames at aol.com> wrote:

>   The Tunxis Humanities Department and Tunxis Philosophy Club Present:
> *Proof & Possibility *
> *A Series of Talks in Philosophy and the History of Ideas*
>
>  Thursday, Dec. 3rd @ 1p.m.
> Founders Hall
>
>  Part 1: *Philosophy of the Supreme Fiction: In and Beyond the Metaphysics
> of Wallace Stevens*
>
>  Hartford's most noted poet and once one of its more prominent insurance
> executives, Wallace Stevens, has often been studied for the philosophical
> character of his work. Considered a true American heir to the English
> Romantic poets, Stevens was also influenced by philosophers as diverse as
> Nietzsche and such pillars of American pragmatism as Ralph Waldo Emerson and
> George Santayana. So invested, in fact, is Stevens's verse in the problems
> of epistemology?the study of knowledge and how, to what extent and how
> validly we can obtain it?and metaphysics ?the study of first principles and
> what is finally most real?that his poetic output has been freshly examined
> in the light of current philosophical trends with each new decade.
>
>  However, the unique way that Stevens understood the interaction between
> the imagination and reality stubbornly resists dissection by logicians or
> diehard rationalists. In discussing what might be called his
> metaphysics?what he named "a supreme fiction"?Stevens was reluctant to limit
> it to poetry. However, even as he set out to address its qualities ?"It Must
> Be Abstract," "It Must Change," and "It Must Give Pleasure"?he offered an
> insurance-style disclaimer: "As soon as I start to rationalize, I lose the
> poetry of the idea."
>
>  Come join James Finnegan, poet, thinker, founder of The Friends and
> Enemies of Wallace Stevens organization, and insurance executive, for a
> fascinating hour and a half?over a provided light lunch?to explore the
> common ground of poetry and philosophy, with Hartford's local treasure
> Stevens as our guide and muse.
>
>   *James Finnegan*?s poems have appeared in *Ploughshares*, *Poetry East*,
> * The Southern Review*, *The Virginia Quarterly Review* and other literary
> magazines. With Dennis Barone he edited *Visiting Wallace: Poems Inspired
> by the Life and Work of Wallace Stevens* (U. of Iowa Press, 2009). He
> currently serves as president of The Friends & Enemies of Wallace Stevens, a
> Hartford area arts organization that supports the cultural legacy of Wallace
> Stevens and promotes poetry in the community. He founded an internet
> discussion listserv called the NewPoetry List, and he blogs aphoristic ars
> poetica at usrprache (http://ursprache.blogspot.com/). Mr. Finnegan works
> in the field of financial institutions risk management for Lee & Mason
> Financial Services, Inc.
>
>
>  *UPCOMING*
> Thursday, February 18th ? Part 2
> *Don't Fear the Future: Democratic Transhumanism and Empowerment through
> Technology*
> James T. Hughes, PhD, bioethicist and sociologist at Trinity College and
> Executive Director of the Institute for Ethics and Emerging Technologies
> (IEET)
>
>  Questions? Contact Jesse Abbot
> jabbot at txcc.commnet.edu ? 860.255.3623
>
> http://tunxis.commnet.edu/
> --
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
>


-- 
Anny Ballardini
http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078
http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html
I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing
star!
Friedrich Nietzsche

? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique
vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ?
Giovenale
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From amyhappens at yahoo.com  Wed Dec  2 10:33:52 2009
From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king)
Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2009 07:33:52 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [New-Poetry] =?utf-8?q?I_will_not_go_gently_into_that_good_night?=
 =?utf-8?q?_--_=22The_Weenie_Roast_=E2=80=93_Ingredients=3F_Not_How_Long?=
 =?utf-8?b?LCBCdXQgV2hhdOKAmXMgaW4gSXTigKYi?=
Message-ID: <449517.31342.qm@web83303.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>

Please don?t take another long drag on your ciggie and nonchalantly claim that the editors of Publisher?s Weekly didn?t know they were selecting books solely by men for their Top 10 Best Books of 2009.  I will hurl dragon fire and burn your little house of cards down. One need only peruse the ?brief reviews? of each book selected to understand that no conscious being, sucking smoke or drinking coffee, could have been under the misperception that these books were not male-driven ? the subject matter of each top ten book is undoubtedly male-centered, save the one collection of short stories.   The content of each book is pure masculine mode (mostly written by men, though women write for purely male interests infrequently):  adventure, problem solving through violence, the sole focus of traditionally-defined masculine protagonists and their exploits, etc.   Not only does this list  avoid celebrating and promoting women?s stories and modes of
 being, thinking and exploration, but it doesn?t offer any alternative male narratives that veer from the business-as-usual masculine concerns of war, adventure, and typical exploits such as who?s shagging whom or who discovered what element before the other guy did.  And while this list is only one, it is indicative of a whole history that excludes, tokenizes, and downplays women?s writing.

?But it?s just a list of books!?   --Continued here:   http://amyking.wordpress.com/2009/12/02/the-weenie-roast-?-ingredients-not-how-long-but-what?s-in-it?/


_______

NEW BOOK
Slaves to Do These Things -- http://www.blazevox.org/bk-ak3.htm 


      



From almaginnes at aol.com  Wed Dec  2 10:38:48 2009
From: almaginnes at aol.com (almaginnes at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 02 Dec 2009 10:38:48 -0500
Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:__[New-Poetry]_I_will_not_go_gently_into_that_good_night_--_?=
	=?utf-8?Q?"The_Weenie_Roast_=E2=80=93_Ingredients=3F_Not_How_Long,
	_But_Wh?= =?utf-8?Q?at=E2=80=99s_in_It=E2=80=A6"?=
In-Reply-To: <449517.31342.qm@web83303.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
References: <449517.31342.qm@web83303.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <8CC417CACFF7C0D-49E8-543E@webmail-d089.sysops.aol.com>

How do you really feel, Amy? It isn't good to keep these things pent up...



-----Original Message-----
From: amy king <amyhappens at yahoo.com>
To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views <new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
Sent: Wed, Dec 2, 2009 10:33 am
Subject: [New-Poetry] I will not go gently into that good night -- "The Weenie Roast ? Ingredients? Not How Long, But What?s in It?"


Please don?t take another long drag on your ciggie and nonchalantly claim that 
he editors of Publisher?s Weekly didn?t know they were selecting books solely 
y men for their Top 10 Best Books of 2009.  I will hurl dragon fire and burn 
our little house of cards down. One need only peruse the ?brief reviews? of 
ach book selected to understand that no conscious being, sucking smoke or 
rinking coffee, could have been under the misperception that these books were 
ot male-driven ? the subject matter of each top ten book is undoubtedly 
ale-centered, save the one collection of short stories.   The content of each 
ook is pure masculine mode (mostly written by men, though women write for 
urely male interests infrequently):  adventure, problem solving through 
iolence, the sole focus of traditionally-defined masculine protagonists and 
heir exploits, etc.   Not only does this list  avoid celebrating and promoting 
omen?s stories and modes of
being, thinking and exploration, but it doesn?t offer any alternative male 
arratives that veer from the business-as-usual masculine concerns of war, 
dventure, and typical exploits such as who?s shagging whom or who discovered 
hat element before the other guy did.  And while this list is only one, it is 
ndicative of a whole history that excludes, tokenizes, and downplays women?s 
riting.
?But it?s just a list of books!?   --Continued here:   http://amyking.wordpress.com/2009/12/02/the-weenie-roast-?-ingredients-not-how-long-but-what?s-in-it?/

______
NEW BOOK
laves to Do These Things -- http://www.blazevox.org/bk-ak3.htm 

     
_______________________________________________
ew-Poetry mailing list
ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry

=
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From amyhappens at yahoo.com  Wed Dec  2 11:02:54 2009
From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king)
Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2009 08:02:54 -0800 (PST)
Subject: =?utf-8?B?UmU6ICBbTmV3LVBvZXRyeV0gSSB3aWxsIG5vdCBnbyBnZW50bHkgaW50byB0?=
	=?utf-8?B?aGF0IGdvb2QgbmlnaHQgLS0gIlRoZSBXZWVuaWUgUm9hc3Qg4oCTIEluZ3Jl?=
	=?utf-8?B?ZGllbnRzPyBOb3QgSG93IExvbmcsICBCdXQgV2hhdOKAmXMgaW4gSXTigKYi?=
In-Reply-To: <8CC417CACFF7C0D-49E8-543E@webmail-d089.sysops.aol.com>
References: <449517.31342.qm@web83303.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
	<8CC417CACFF7C0D-49E8-543E@webmail-d089.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <65985.39365.qm@web83306.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>

Haha!  I feel fine, Al.  But some might say I'm angrier than the "next guy":

Both men and women tend to view women who express anger more negatively than they view men who express anger ? even when members of both sexes use the same words and body language to express that anger. An economist, Linda Babcock, has shown that women are less likely than men to ask for promotions or raises. Perhaps they fear appearing to be unfeminine."

http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/11/09/gender-bias-bingo/?hp




________________________________
From: "almaginnes at aol.com" <almaginnes at aol.com>
To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
Sent: Wed, December 2, 2009 7:38:48 AM
Subject: Re:  [New-Poetry] I will not go gently into that good night -- "The Weenie Roast ? Ingredients? Not How Long,  But What?s in It?"

How do you really feel, Amy? It isn't good to keep these things pent up...



-----Original Message-----
From: amy king <amyhappens at yahoo.com>

?But it?s just a list of books!?   --Continued here:   http://amyking.wordpress.com/2009/12/02/the-weenie-roast-?-ingredients-not-how-long-but-what?s-in-it?/


_______  


      
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From chris at chrislott.org  Wed Dec  2 11:26:42 2009
From: chris at chrislott.org (Chris Lott)
Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2009 07:26:42 -0900
Subject: =?windows-1252?Q?Re=3A_=5BNew=2DPoetry=5D_I_will_not_go_gently_into_that_good?=
	=?windows-1252?Q?_night_=2D=2D_=22The_Weenie_Roast_=96_Ingredients=3F_Not_How_Long=2C_B?=
	=?windows-1252?Q?ut_What=92s_in_It=85=22?=
In-Reply-To: <449517.31342.qm@web83303.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
References: <449517.31342.qm@web83303.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <b06d3f670912020826o6ee482b4sd3e3cc78ff3f0f2@mail.gmail.com>

That reminds me, Dan Chaon's book of stories, male protagonists or no,
is one of the better of the last couple years. Highly recommended.

Not to mention Lavalle's _Big Machine_, which is a great novel (I
know, it's about a man).

And if you're at all interested in Cheever, Blake Bailey's bio manages
to be both, as far as anyone has been able to tell, balanced and
accurate-- and interesting! I know, it's all about a man, but I find
it hard to figure how a biography of Cheever could be written while
escaping that barbarism.

c


From Opus40-01 at opus40.org  Wed Dec  2 11:39:32 2009
From: Opus40-01 at opus40.org (TheOldMole)
Date: Wed, 02 Dec 2009 11:39:32 -0500
Subject: =?UTF-8?B?UmU6IFtOZXctUG9ldHJ5XSBJIHdpbGwgbm90IGdvIGdlbnRseSBpbnQ=?=
	=?UTF-8?B?byB0aGF0IGdvb2QgbmlnaHQgLS0gIlRoZSBXZWVuaWUgUm9hc3Qg4oCTIEluZ3I=?=
	=?UTF-8?B?ZWRpZW50cz8gTm90IEhvdyBMb25nLCAgQnV0IFdoYXTigJlzIGluIEl04oCmIg==?=
In-Reply-To: <65985.39365.qm@web83306.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
References: <449517.31342.qm@web83303.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>	<8CC417CACFF7C0D-49E8-543E@webmail-d089.sysops.aol.com>
	<65985.39365.qm@web83306.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4B169844.4070701@opus40.org>

Amy -- I'd say you've mastered the fine art of anger.

amy king wrote:
> Haha!  I feel fine, Al.  But some might say I'm angrier than the "next 
> guy":
>
>
>       Both men and women tend to view women who express anger more
>       negatively than they view men who express anger ? even when
>       members of both sexes use the same words and body language to
>       express that anger. An economist, Linda Babcock, has shown that
>       women are less likely than men to ask for promotions or raises.
>       Perhaps they fear appearing to be unfeminine."
>
>       http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/11/09/gender-bias-bingo/?hp
>       <http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/11/09/gender-bias-bingo/?hp>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From:* "almaginnes at aol.com" <almaginnes at aol.com>
> *To:* new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> *Sent:* Wed, December 2, 2009 7:38:48 AM
> *Subject:* Re: [New-Poetry] I will not go gently into that good night 
> -- "The Weenie Roast ? Ingredients? Not How Long, But What?s in It?"
>
> How do you really feel, Amy? It isn't good to keep these things pent up...
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: amy king <amyhappens at yahoo.com>
>
> ?But it?s just a list of books!?   --Continued here:   http://amyking.wordpress.com/2009/12/02/the-weenie-roast-?-ingredients-not-how-long-but-what?s-in-it <http://amyking.wordpress.com/2009/12/02/the-weenie-roast-%E2%80%93-ingredients-not-how-long-but-what%E2%80%99s-in-it>?/
>
>
> _______
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>   

-- 
Tad Richards
Read my NY Writing Careers Examiner column today!
http://www.examiner.com/x-2862-NY-Writing-Careers-Examiner

http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/
http://opusforty.blogspot.com/



From chris at chrislott.org  Wed Dec  2 11:50:33 2009
From: chris at chrislott.org (Chris Lott)
Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2009 07:50:33 -0900
Subject: =?windows-1252?Q?Re=3A_=5BNew=2DPoetry=5D_I_will_not_go_gently_into_that_good?=
	=?windows-1252?Q?_night_=2D=2D_=22The_Weenie_Roast_=96_Ingredients=3F_Not_How_Long=2C_B?=
	=?windows-1252?Q?ut_What=92s_in_It=85=22?=
In-Reply-To: <b06d3f670912020826o6ee482b4sd3e3cc78ff3f0f2@mail.gmail.com>
References: <449517.31342.qm@web83303.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
	<b06d3f670912020826o6ee482b4sd3e3cc78ff3f0f2@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <b06d3f670912020850x1d7d7c57q5f8418155f5db7ab@mail.gmail.com>

Oops, I was thinking of a different Chaon book. I can't vouch for this one...

c

On Wed, Dec 2, 2009 at 7:26 AM, Chris Lott <chris at chrislott.org> wrote:
> That reminds me, Dan Chaon's book of stories, male protagonists or no,
> is one of the better of the last couple years. Highly recommended.
>
> Not to mention Lavalle's _Big Machine_, which is a great novel (I
> know, it's about a man).
>
> And if you're at all interested in Cheever, Blake Bailey's bio manages
> to be both, as far as anyone has been able to tell, balanced and
> accurate-- and interesting! I know, it's all about a man, but I find
> it hard to figure how a biography of Cheever could be written while
> escaping that barbarism.
>
> c
>


From jbalizsprince at googlemail.com  Wed Dec  2 12:33:04 2009
From: jbalizsprince at googlemail.com (Judy Prince)
Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2009 12:33:04 -0500
Subject: =?UTF-8?Q?Re=3A_=5BNew=2DPoetry=5D_I_will_not_go_gently_into_that_good?=
	=?UTF-8?Q?_night_=2D=2D_=22The_Weenie_Roast_=E2=80=93_Ingredients=3F_Not_How_Long=2C_B?=
	=?UTF-8?Q?ut_What=E2=80=99s_in_It=E2=80=A6=22?=
In-Reply-To: <449517.31342.qm@web83303.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
References: <449517.31342.qm@web83303.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <7db1d01b0912020933i1bf5fb64wf414112e5f7a7e8e@mail.gmail.com>

I haven't been attending to the list of 10 Best, amy, unfortunately for
me---but I quite like your 'take' on it, as given below.

One wonders whether we need to acknowledge that there are 'boy' books and
'girl' books, like boy films and girl films; and if the boys pick the books
and films for prominence, well.....what can we expect?  And if the
prominent-making boys are true to THEIR preferences, well.....what can we
expect of honest boys?

If, then, it's who picks whom.....several top 10 lists by several
prominent-making women seems a reasonable course.  Surely the thousands of
women eds and pubs in the field could yield a few strong counterbalancing
lists.

We also have the monumental issue of women's books that never make the cut.
 My knowledge of inside-publishing is nearly nil, but I'm a willing learner.

Best,

Judy

2009/12/2 amy king <amyhappens at yahoo.com>

> Please don?t take another long drag on your ciggie and nonchalantly claim
> that the editors of Publisher?s Weekly didn?t know they were selecting books
> solely by men for their Top 10 Best Books of 2009.  I will hurl dragon fire
> and burn your little house of cards down. One need only peruse the ?brief
> reviews? of each book selected to understand that no conscious being,
> sucking smoke or drinking coffee, could have been under the misperception
> that these books were not male-driven ? the subject matter of each top ten
> book is undoubtedly male-centered, save the one collection of short stories.
>   The content of each book is pure masculine mode (mostly written by men,
> though women write for purely male interests infrequently):  adventure,
> problem solving through violence, the sole focus of traditionally-defined
> masculine protagonists and their exploits, etc.   Not only does this list
>  avoid celebrating and promoting women?s stories and modes of
>  being, thinking and exploration, but it doesn?t offer any alternative male
> narratives that veer from the business-as-usual masculine concerns of war,
> adventure, and typical exploits such as who?s shagging whom or who
> discovered what element before the other guy did.  And while this list is
> only one, it is indicative of a whole history that excludes, tokenizes, and
> downplays women?s writing.
>
> ?But it?s just a list of books!?   --Continued here:
> http://amyking.wordpress.com/2009/12/02/the-weenie-roast-
> ?-ingredients-not-how-long-but-what?s-in-it?/
>
>
> _______
>
> NEW BOOK
> Slaves to Do These Things -- http://www.blazevox.org/bk-ak3.htm
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
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From Sigauke at crc.losrios.edu  Wed Dec  2 14:48:37 2009
From: Sigauke at crc.losrios.edu (Sigauke, Emmanuel)
Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2009 11:48:37 -0800
Subject: [New-Poetry] Memory Chirere on the State of Zimbabwean Poetry
In-Reply-To: <8CC4043B38A1D52-4F40-10558@webmail-d033.sysops.aol.com>
References: <70b6586e0911230233n7a710ca6s237884887fb583b6@mail.gmail.com>
	<8CC3F817DB4B369-11D8-D6AD@webmail-m084.sysops.aol.com>
	<8CC4043B38A1D52-4F40-10558@webmail-d033.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <8AB6AE105E0CE34EA7047DA0D6F0A97123B37A32EC@lrccd-exch08.LRCCD.ad.losrios.edu>

?My worry though with most Zimbabwean poetry since And Now The Poets Speak of 1982, is the prevalence of melancholy. Our poets are yet to find an idiom that redeems, regardless of the well known woes. The poetry of Jorge Rebelo and Jose Craveirinha are an example of poets who, while chronicling the ills of their society, reflected also on what they should offer. They went beyond the realm of 'look what they have done to me' and began to show 'what we have to do about it'. I honestly believe that Zimbabwe is not the last place God made. We shall overcome.?

Read more here: http://vasigauke.blogspot.com/2009/12/memory-chirere-reviews-state-of-nation.html






From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of jforjames at aol.com
Sent: Monday, November 30, 2009 6:18 PM
To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: Philosophy of Wallace Stevens talk, Dec. 3, 1pm, Tunxis CC

The Tunxis Humanities Department and Tunxis Philosophy Club Present:
Proof & Possibility
A Series of Talks in Philosophy and the History of Ideas

Thursday, Dec. 3rd @ 1p.m.
Founders Hall

Part 1: Philosophy of the Supreme Fiction: In and Beyond the Metaphysics of Wallace Stevens

Hartford's most noted poet and once one of its more prominent insurance executives, Wallace Stevens, has often been studied for the philosophical character of his work. Considered a true American heir to the English Romantic poets, Stevens was also influenced by philosophers as diverse as Nietzsche and such pillars of American pragmatism as Ralph Waldo Emerson and George Santayana. So invested, in fact, is Stevens's verse in the problems of epistemology?the study of knowledge and how, to what extent and how validly we can obtain it?and metaphysics ?the study of first principles and what is finally most real?that his poetic output has been freshly examined in the light of current philosophical trends with each new decade.

However, the unique way that Stevens understood the interaction between the imagination and reality stubbornly resists dissection by logicians or diehard rationalists. In discussing what might be called his metaphysics?what he named "a supreme fiction"?Stevens was reluctant to limit it to poetry. However, even as he set out to address its qualities ?"It Must Be Abstract," "It Must Change," and "It Must Give Pleasure"?he offered an insurance-style disclaimer: "As soon as I start to rationalize, I lose the poetry of the idea."

Come join James Finnegan, poet, thinker, founder of The Friends and Enemies of Wallace Stevens organization, and insurance executive, for a fascinating hour and a half?over a provided light lunch?to explore the common ground of poetry and philosophy, with Hartford's local treasure Stevens as our guide and muse.

James Finnegan?s poems have appeared in Ploughshares, Poetry East, The Southern Review, The Virginia Quarterly Review and other literary magazines. With Dennis Barone he edited Visiting Wallace: Poems Inspired by the Life and Work of Wallace Stevens (U. of Iowa Press, 2009). He currently serves as president of The Friends & Enemies of Wallace Stevens, a Hartford area arts organization that supports the cultural legacy of Wallace Stevens and promotes poetry in the community. He founded an internet discussion listserv called the NewPoetry List, and he blogs aphoristic ars poetica at usrprache (http://ursprache.blogspot.com/). Mr. Finnegan works in the field of financial institutions risk management for Lee & Mason Financial Services, Inc.


*UPCOMING*
Thursday, February 18th ? Part 2
Don't Fear the Future: Democratic Transhumanism and Empowerment through Technology
James T. Hughes, PhD, bioethicist and sociologist at Trinity College and
Executive Director of the Institute for Ethics and Emerging Technologies (IEET)

Questions? Contact Jesse Abbot
jabbot at txcc.commnet.edu<mailto:jabbot at txcc.commnet.edu> ? 860.255.3623

http://tunxis.commnet.edu/
--

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From chris at chrislott.org  Thu Dec  3 00:27:32 2009
From: chris at chrislott.org (Chris Lott)
Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2009 20:27:32 -0900
Subject: =?windows-1252?Q?Re=3A_=5BNew=2DPoetry=5D_I_will_not_go_gently_into_that_good?=
	=?windows-1252?Q?_night_=2D=2D_=22The_Weenie_Roast_=96_Ingredients=3F_Not_How_Long=2C_B?=
	=?windows-1252?Q?ut_What=92s_in_It=85=22?=
In-Reply-To: <7db1d01b0912020933i1bf5fb64wf414112e5f7a7e8e@mail.gmail.com>
References: <449517.31342.qm@web83303.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
	<7db1d01b0912020933i1bf5fb64wf414112e5f7a7e8e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <b06d3f670912022127ra720b1dh5231b63b602fe108@mail.gmail.com>

It'd be nice to have a smaller selection from the WILLA list that had
some intention of pointing us to outstanding books by women rather
than just books by women. Any list that talks about the year's best
that includes, for example, Margaret Atwood's latest is suspect to me.
Atwood's a fine writer, but _The Year of the Flood_ is decidedly
mediocre and I can't help but think such an inclusion is just a
different, lesser tokenism.

c


From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net  Thu Dec  3 08:52:14 2009
From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman)
Date: Thu, 03 Dec 2009 08:52:14 -0500
Subject: =?windows-1252?Q?Re=3A_=5BNew-Poetry=5D_I_will_not_go_?=
	=?windows-1252?Q?gently_into_that_good=3D=3Fwindows-1252=3FQ=3F=5F?=
	=?windows-1252?Q?night=5F=3D2D=3D2D=5F=3D22The=5FWee_nie=5FRoast=5F=3D?=
	=?windows-1252?Q?96=5FIngredients=3D3F=5FNot=5FHow=5FLong=3D2C=5FB=3F=3D?=
	=?windows-1252?Q?ut_What=92s_in_It=85=22?=
In-Reply-To: <b06d3f670912022127ra720b1dh5231b63b602fe108@mail.gmail.com>
References: <449517.31342.qm@web83303.mail.sp1.yahoo.com><7db1d01b0912020933i1bf5fb64wf414112e5f7a7e8e@mail.gmail.com>
	<b06d3f670912022127ra720b1dh5231b63b602fe108@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4B17C28E.3060105@nut-n-but.net>

Chris Lott wrote:
> It'd be nice to have a smaller selection from the WILLA list that had
> some intention of pointing us to outstanding books by women rather
> than just books by women. Any list that talks about the year's best
> that includes, for example, Margaret Atwood's latest is suspect to me.
> Atwood's a fine writer, but _The Year of the Flood_ is decidedly
> mediocre and I can't help but think such an inclusion is just a
> different, lesser tokenism.
>
> c
How about taking one book from the PW list of best books and comparing 
it to some book by a woman published in the same year, showing in detail 
why the book by the woman is the better of the two.  Choose a book of 
poetry, since this discussion group is supposed to be about poetry.  
Having said that, I'm reminded that I don't know whether any poetry 
collection made the list of best books.  A few must have, otherwise 
poets would be complaining, right?

--Bob



From anny.ballardini at gmail.com  Thu Dec  3 11:08:19 2009
From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Thu, 3 Dec 2009 17:08:19 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] mic or mike?
Message-ID: <4b65c2d70912030808p1c9e1bddgf5b31325f6fc3838@mail.gmail.com>

http://poetry.about.com/b/2009/12/02/is-it-open-mic-or-mike.htm?nl=1

and James Finnegan and the New Poetry list!


-- 
Anny Ballardini
http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078
http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html
I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing
star!
Friedrich Nietzsche

? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique
vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ?
Giovenale
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From anny.ballardini at gmail.com  Thu Dec  3 12:14:56 2009
From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Thu, 3 Dec 2009 18:14:56 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] John Tranter's and Pam Brown's Jacket 38
Message-ID: <4b65c2d70912030914tf1f75b5r4444f44b7950165b@mail.gmail.com>

Announcing Jacket 38 -- Late 2009:

http://jacketmagazine.com/38/index.shtml

Jonathan Williams -- Niedecker -- H.D. -- Blaser --
Dorn -- Geoffrey Hill -- Bei Dao

A free internet literary magazine --

Interviews -- Reviews -- Articles -- Poems

Editor: John Tranter ::::::  Associate Editor: Pam Brown

Writers previously published in Jacket (only) may submit material. We
only have time to read for Jacket in June, July and January: please
don't send material out of season.

"You were talking of continuing fashions and of course you see these
periods come and go. If you lived through the Leavis era, you'd know
what it was like for a whole doctrine of literature to be created,
defended and lost. There are very few Leavisites now, as you know.
There was a time when every grammar school had a Leavisite English
master."  -- Frank Kermode, 2009, in conversation with Tom Bailey, in
The Literateur

================================ Articles

[>>>] Photographer Robert Adams: Frish Brandt in conversation with Noel
King, 2008

[>>>] Cralan: I Once Met

[>>>] Graham Foust: Resisting Print: Jack Spicer's Lecturature

[>>>] Gloria Frym: Lorine Niedecker's Plain (Language)

[>>>] Matthew Gagnon: Carmen Perpetuum: Robin Blaser's Continuous Song

[>>>] Genevieve Kaplan: How we read Caroline Bergvall's "Via" and Why
we should care

[>>>] Travis Macdonald: A Brief History of Erasure Poetics

[>>>] Dipti Saravanamuttu: Some Aspects of the Tetragrammaton: on
Geoffrey Hill

[>>>] Kyle Waugh: "You Are Sometimes in the Trance of What Is Beyond
You": Upheaval, Incantation and Ed Dorn in the Summer of 1968

================================ Reviews

[>>>] Anselm Berrigan, "To Hell with Sleep", reviewed by Sophie Sills

[>>>] Anne Blonstein: "Correspondence with Nobody", reviewed by Maria
Damon

[>>>] Pat Boran: "New and Selected Poems", reviewed by Sarah Linke

[>>>] Michael Boughn: "22 Skidoo/Sub Transactions", reviewed by Patrick
James Dunagan

[>>>] David Buuck: "The Shunt", reviewed by Stan Apps

[>>>] Johan de Wit: "Up To You Munro", reviewed by Will Rowe

[>>>] Dolores Dorantes: sexoPURO sexoVELOZ / Septiembre: A Bilingual
Edition of Books Two and Three of "Dolores Dorantes;" Translated by Jen
Hofer, reviewed by Christopher Winks

[>>>] Ulla E. Dydo, with William Rice: "Gertrude Stein: The Language
That Rises, 1923-1934", reviewed by Logan Esdale

[>>>] Lawrence Giffin: "Get the F### Back Into That Burning Plane",
reviewed by Stan Apps

[>>>] Mary Kasimor: "Silk String Arias", reviewed by Robert Zamsky

[>>>] Yusef Komunyakaa: "Warhorses", Reviewed by Brett Strickland

[>>>] Heller Levinson: "Smelling Mary", reviewed by Leigh Herrick

[>>>] Rachel Loden: "Dick of the Dead", reviewed by Tad Richards

[>>>] Joseph Massey: "Areas of Fog", reviewed by Rob Stanton

[>>>] Ian Seed: "Anonymous Intruder", reviewed by: Virginia Konchan

[>>>] Rodrigo Toscano: "Collapsible Poetics Theater", reviewed by
Natalie Knight

[>>>] Sara Veglahn, "Another Random Heart", reviewed by Sophie Sills

[>>>] Eliot Weinberger: "Oranges and Peanuts for Sale", reviewed by
Jeffrey Errington

[>>>] Susan Wheeler: Assorted Poems, reviewed by Will Cordeiro

================================ Poems

[>>>] Bob Arnold: My Sweetest Friend

[>>>] Bei Dao: Four poems; Translated by Clayton Eshleman and Lucas
Klein

[>>>] James Byrne: Two poems: From the Sky Parlour / Sanchez de Aldama

[>>>] Stephen Collis: poems

[>>>] Rachel Blau DuPlessis: Draft 99: Intransitive

[>>>] Rachel Blau DuPlessis: Draft 98: Canzone

[>>>] E.W. Everett: Four poems: Langley's Body: under the influence of
Homer Collyer / Dedicate / 51 Steps: under the influence of Rosalind
Franklin / Downing Street

[>>>] Liam Ferney: Two poems: Triumph of Will / Push Kick Dreaming

[>>>] Jason Harmon: Alette

[>>>] Cynthia Hogue: Ars Cora

[>>>] Kent Johnson: After Spicer

[>>>] Ron Koertge: Three poems: Hades / Persephone / Demeter

[>>>] Virginia Konchan: Two poems

[>>>] Ben Lerner: Doppler Elegies

[>>>] Jamie Lord: A Style for Every Story

[>>>] Omar Perez: Four poems from "Common Nonsense"

[>>>] David Shapiro: The Birthday of the World

[>>>] Hugh Tolhurst: Unfailingly

[>>>] Chris Tysh: Our Lady of the Flowers, Echoic

[>>>] Mark Young: Four poems from Genji Monogatari

================================ Interviews

[>>>] Maxine Chernoff in conversation with Jane Joritz-Nakagawa, 2009

[>>>] John Olson in conversation with Noah Eli Gordon, 2007-2008

[>>>] The Tortoise And The Hare: Dale Smith and Kenneth Goldsmith Parse
Slow and Fast Poetries

================================ Feature: Angel Escobar

[>>>] Angel Escobar: Three Poems, Translated by Kristin Dykstra

[>>>] Pedro Marques de Armas: The great leap outward: On the life and
poetry of Angel Escobar

================================ Feature: Jonathan Williams

INTRODUCTION:

[>>>] Jeffery Beam and Richard Owens: The Lord of Orchards: Jonathan
Williams at 80

REMEMBERING:

[>>>] Jonathan Williams: A Life in Pictures

[>>>] Basil Bunting: Comment on Jonathan Williams

[>>>] Dear JW: Erica Van Horn

[>>>] James McGarrell: Mountainside Reader; for JW

[>>>] Ann McGarrell: Amon cher Stodge

[>>>] Anne Midgette: On With It

[>>>] Bob Arnold: Swept in with the Rain

[>>>] Charles Lambert: Acts of Kindness

[>>>] Diana C. Stoll: Jonathan Williams: More Mouth on that Man

[>>>] Gary Carden: The Bard of Scaly Mountain

[>>>] Harry Gilonis: from Pliny: Naturalis Historia XXVII. xvi 58

[>>>] John Mitzel: Jonathan Williams: An Appreciation

[>>>] Michael Rumaker's Last Letter to Jonathan Williams

[>>>] Robert Kelly: Colonel Generosity -- Saying Thank You to Jonathan
Williams

[>>>] Ronald Johnson: A Microscopic/ Telescopic Collage of "The Empire
Finals at Verona"

[>>>] Simon Cutts: Anglophone Digressions

[>>>] Thomas A Clark and Laurie Clark

[>>>] Thomas Meyer: Kintsugi -- with a Foreword by Robert Kelly

RESPONDING:

[>>>] Guy Davenport: Jonathan Williams, Poet

[>>>] Charles Olson: For a Man Gone to Stuttgart Who Left an Automobile
Behind Him

[>>>] Charles Olson: Nota to "Jammin' the Greek Scene"

[>>>] Robert Duncan: Preface to Jonathan Williams' "Elegies and
Celebrations"

[>>>] James Maynard: Some notes on Jonathan Williams and Robert Duncan

[>>>] Jed Birmingham: William Burroughs and Jonathan Williams

[>>>] David Annwn: Mustard & Evening Primrose, the astringent
extravagance of Jonathan Williams' metafours

[>>>] Eric Mottram: An Introduction: "Stay In and Use Both Hands"

[>>>] Jim Cory: We Were All Beautiful Once (or) Never Bare Your Soul to
an Asshole

[>>>] Jonathan Greene: Jonathan Williams: Taking Delight In Two Worlds

[>>>] Kenneth Irby: "america's largest openair museum"

[>>>] Ronald Johnson: Jonathan (Chamberlain) Williams

[>>>] Thomas Meyer: JW Gent & Epicurean

REVIEWING:

[>>>] Jonathan Williams: Image Gallery: 24 photographs by Jonathan
Williams

[>>>] Richard Deming: Portraying the Contemporary: The Photography of
Jonathan Williams

[>>>] Vic Brand: Burr, Salvage, Yoke

RECOLLECTING:

[>>>] James Jaffe: Jonathan Williams, Jargonaut

[>>>] Kyle Schlesinger: The Jargon Society

[>>>] Tom Patterson: If You Can Kill a Snake with It, It Ain't Art: The
Art History of a Maverick Poet-Publisher

[>>>] Michael Basinski: Some Facts and Some Memories: The Jargon
Society Archive at the Poetry Collection State University of New York
at Buffalo

[>>>] Dale Smith: Devotion to "The Strange": Jonathan Williams and the
Small Press

[>>>] Jonathan Williams in conversation with Richard Owens,1 June 2007

[>>>] Robert J. Bertholf: The Jargon Society and Contemporary Literary
History

[This feature will be complete in late December 2009.]

================================ Feature: H.D.

[>>>] H.D. Feature: Editor's Introduction: H.D. and the Image by
Kristina Marie Darling

[>>>] H.D.' s Crucible of Fire, by Nancy McGuire Roche

[>>>] H.D., Imagiste: Mary Ann Sullivan in Conversation with Lisa
Stewart

[>>>] Nephie Christodoulides: Beyond Sea Garden: Hermes and the Rose

[>>>] Daniele Pantano: Between Stations of the Metro

[>>>] Two images by Amy Evans

[>>>] Donna J. Gelagotis Lee: Two poems

[>>>] Gretchen Steele Pratt: Three poems

[>>>] Angela Sorby: The Suburban Mysteries

================================

John Tranter:
39 Short Street, Balmain 2041, Australia

http://johntranter.com/
http://jacketmagazine.com/



-- 
Anny Ballardini
http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078
http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html
I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing
star!
Friedrich Nietzsche

? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique
vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ?
Giovenale
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From jforjames at aol.com  Thu Dec  3 18:36:10 2009
From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 03 Dec 2009 18:36:10 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] WorldPo: Pacheco wins Cervantes Prize
Message-ID: <8CC4288877837A4-25A8-FC44@webmail-m054.sysops.aol.com>


http://www.monstersandcritics.com/news/americas/news/article_1516189.php/Mexican-poet-Pacheco-wins-top-Spanish-literature-award

Madrid - Mexican writer Jose Emilio Pacheco, 70, was Monday awarded the Cervantes Prize, which is regarded as the highest-ranking literature award of the Spanish-speaking world, Spanish Culture Minister Angeles Gonzalez-Sinde announced. 

The jury described Pacheco as 'an exceptional poet of the daily life with depth and a capacity of creating a world of his own.' 
Regarded as one of the major Mexican 20th-century poets, Pacheco is also a novelist, short story writer, critic and translator. 

His poetry books include Los Elementos de la Noche (The Elements of the Night, 1963), El Reposo del Fuego (The Sleep of the Fire, 1966) and No Me Preguntes Como Pasa el Tiempo (Do Not Ask Me How the Time Goes By, 1969). 

The Cervantes Prize is worth 125,000 euros (187,500 dollars). It is awarded annually by the Spanish Culture Ministry. 

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From jforjames at aol.com  Thu Dec  3 18:45:08 2009
From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 03 Dec 2009 18:45:08 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] The Grand Piano poets
Message-ID: <8CC4289C7AAAD24-25A8-FE72@webmail-m054.sysops.aol.com>


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/travis-nichols/this-is-your-brain-on-poe_b_377275.html
Memory--and the wonder and terror it inspires--has generated great poems from Simonides, famous for eulogizing ancient Greek nobility, to Coleridge, who longed for his faraway friends in "This Lime-Tree Bower My Prison," to the contemporary poets writing an "experiment in collective autobiography," The Grand Piano. These poets--Ron Silliman, Rae Armantrout, Lyn Hejinian, and Carla Harryman among them--have spent their careers using poetry to prod the brain in other areas besides just the comfortable spot where (to paraphrase Wordsworth) emotion is recollected in tranquility. 

Poetry in this tradition--one that is less interested in telling stories and more interested in exploring how story-language works--attempts to make the emotion present in the reading experience. Tranquility can come later. They're not re-telling memories in a poem (like the memory recounted in William Stafford's much-anthologized "Traveling Through the Dark"), but rather using word combinations, sound patterns, and different types of sentences to engage a reader's brain while he or she is reading (Bernadette Mayer's writing is a great example of this kind of thing). To varying degrees, these poets have delved into what literary critic Reuven Tsur has called Cognitive Poetics, a field of study that has taken "reader-response" theory to a whole other level. 

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From halvard at gmail.com  Thu Dec  3 23:54:36 2009
From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson)
Date: Thu, 3 Dec 2009 22:54:36 -0600
Subject: [New-Poetry] The Grand Piano poets
In-Reply-To: <8CC4289C7AAAD24-25A8-FE72@webmail-m054.sysops.aol.com>
References: <8CC4289C7AAAD24-25A8-FE72@webmail-m054.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <f160a1210912032054x5c75e94bv477ee44b1a4df823@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks for the link to this, James.

Hal

"We don't serve fine wine in half-pints, buddy."
                  --Robert Ashley

Halvard Johnson
================
halvard at gmail.com
http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home
http://entropyandme.blogspot.com
http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com
http://www.hamiltonstone.org


On Thu, Dec 3, 2009 at 5:45 PM, <jforjames at aol.com> wrote:

>
> http://www.huffingtonpost.com/travis-nichols/this-is-your-brain-on-poe_b_377275.html
> Memory--and the wonder and terror it inspires--has generated great poems
> from Simonides, famous for eulogizing ancient Greek nobility, to Coleridge,
> who longed for his faraway friends in "This Lime-Tree Bower My Prison," to
> the contemporary poets writing an "experiment in collective autobiography,"
> The Grand Piano. These poets--Ron Silliman, Rae Armantrout, Lyn Hejinian,
> and Carla Harryman among them--have spent their careers using poetry to prod
> the brain in other areas besides just the comfortable spot where (to
> paraphrase Wordsworth) emotion is recollected in tranquility.
>
> Poetry in this tradition--one that is less interested in telling stories
> and more interested in exploring how story-language works--attempts to make
> the emotion present in the reading experience. Tranquility can come later.
> They're not re-telling memories in a poem (like the memory recounted in
> William Stafford's much-anthologized "Traveling Through the Dark"), but
> rather using word combinations, sound patterns, and different types of
> sentences to engage a reader's brain while he or she is reading (Bernadette
> Mayer's writing is a great example of this kind of thing). To varying
> degrees, these poets have delved into what literary critic Reuven Tsur has
> called Cognitive Poetics, a field of study that has taken "reader-response"
> theory to a whole other level.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
>
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From obodooha at gmail.com  Fri Dec  4 01:57:55 2009
From: obodooha at gmail.com (Obododimma Oha)
Date: Thu, 3 Dec 2009 22:57:55 -0800
Subject: [New-Poetry] Anthology of Poetic Works on Health & Illness:
	Extension of Deadline & Final Call
Message-ID: <a24092720912032257u7544fb5dk5ffade32945e57f0@mail.gmail.com>

The deadline for the submission of works announced below is now 25 December
2009. We thank those who have already made submissions.

-- Obododimma Oha & Anny Ballardini
(Editors,* Health & Illness)*.


>>>>>>> "*Until now I always felt a stranger in this town, and that I'd no
>>>>>>> concern with you people. But now that I've seen what I have seen, I know
>>>>>>> that I belong here whether I want it or not. This business is everybody's
>>>>>>> business*."
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> from* The Plague* by Albert Camus
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> * *
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> *HEALTH & ILLNESS*
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> *(Poetic Works on Health & Illness in Human Experience)*
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The body as a text or network of texts - as a sign, a signified or a
>>>>>>> signifier, as a myth - articulated and performed by the self , the I, or by
>>>>>>> instinct, and read variously by the other, the I, the we, the subject, or
>>>>>>> the object, achieves complexity especially when set in illness and health
>>>>>>> narratives. The languages of the body in such contexts, as configured in
>>>>>>> cultural works, especially through a poetic insight, would be undoubtedly
>>>>>>> useful in trying to understand how health related to the vegetal, animal or
>>>>>>> human world is art and/or science, or how possible contaminations between
>>>>>>> science and art can transfer to scientific art, or artistic science by
>>>>>>> considering psychology and sociology as sciences of the behavior
>>>>>>> respectively of the single and of the many, religion and philosophy as
>>>>>>> sciences of the mind or of the metaphysical, medicine and biology as
>>>>>>> manifest sciences of the body.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Poetic works that feature, interrogate, or probe health/illness
>>>>>>> representations in culture and society are hereby invited for publication on
>>>>>>> the Poets? Corner. The editors, Obododimma Oha and Anny Ballardini, are
>>>>>>> particularly interested in artwork that presents illness and health in
>>>>>>> unusual but inspiring modes with the aim of shedding light on the nature of
>>>>>>> both. Unusual and intuitive readings should become tools to dismantle the
>>>>>>> spiraling maelstrom of malady or to forge a consciousness to enlighten the
>>>>>>> human being in the acceptance of what is if and whenever change or
>>>>>>> improvement is impossible. Poetry should rise to the height of medical
>>>>>>> science as an assistant, an advisor, or as the healer, be it at a physical
>>>>>>> or metaphysical level.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Welcome are works that seek to present poetic languages of the
>>>>>>> mentally challenged, the aphasic, the traumatized, the schizophrenic, as
>>>>>>> well as any kind of disease, be it infectious like AIDS, or ?generational?
>>>>>>> like cancer, be it connected with what is usually seen as a seasonal minor
>>>>>>> collapse like viral influenza, or with accidents that change the lives of
>>>>>>> the victims.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The present contextualization could broaden to include the idea of a
>>>>>>> nation as a single community, a constitutional body characterized by
>>>>>>> illnesses or healthy states. It could also visualize, and still not be
>>>>>>> limited to, various economic systems with their dangerous trends/breaths
>>>>>>> sweeping away hopes or bringing in new ambitious projects, be them healthy
>>>>>>> or ill. The same history of art or literary criticism could be reviewed
>>>>>>> under the lens of variables that determine the health or the illness of the
>>>>>>> category.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Visual artwork, poems, poetic fiction, poetic nonfiction, and
>>>>>>> photographs to be submitted for consideration should go beyond the
>>>>>>> traditional mimetic to narrate distortions, out-of-the-body experiences,
>>>>>>> virtual thrills and/or gratuitous hallucinations.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Visual works and photographs are to be saved in JPEG format; texts,
>>>>>>> which should not have rigid formatting, in Word. All submissions should be
>>>>>>> emailed to the editors anny.ballardini at gmail.com and
>>>>>>> obodooha at gmail.com by December 25, 2009 with "Health & Illness" in
>>>>>>> the Subject line.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
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From Opus40-01 at opus40.org  Fri Dec  4 11:33:49 2009
From: Opus40-01 at opus40.org (TheOldMole)
Date: Fri, 04 Dec 2009 11:33:49 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] WorldPo: Pacheco wins Cervantes Prize
In-Reply-To: <8CC4288877837A4-25A8-FC44@webmail-m054.sysops.aol.com>
References: <8CC4288877837A4-25A8-FC44@webmail-m054.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <4B1939ED.8090409@opus40.org>

I thought the Cervantes Prize was publication in Salt River Review.

jforjames at aol.com wrote:
> http://www.monstersandcritics.com/news/americas/news/article_1516189.php/Mexican-poet-Pacheco-wins-top-Spanish-literature-award
>  
> Madrid - Mexican writer Jose Emilio Pacheco, 70, was Monday awarded 
> the Cervantes Prize, which is regarded as the highest-ranking 
> literature award of the Spanish-speaking world, Spanish Culture 
> Minister Angeles Gonzalez-Sinde announced.
>  
> The jury described Pacheco as 'an exceptional poet of the daily life 
> with depth and a capacity of creating a world of his own.'
> Regarded as one of the major Mexican 20th-century poets, Pacheco is 
> also a novelist, short story writer, critic and translator.
>  
> His poetry books include Los Elementos de la Noche (The Elements of 
> the Night, 1963), El Reposo del Fuego (The Sleep of the Fire, 1966) 
> and No Me Preguntes Como Pasa el Tiempo (Do Not Ask Me How the Time 
> Goes By, 1969).
>  
> The Cervantes Prize is worth 125,000 euros (187,500 dollars). It is 
> awarded annually by the Spanish Culture Ministry.
>  
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>   

-- 
Tad Richards
Read my NY Writing Careers Examiner column today!
http://www.examiner.com/x-2862-NY-Writing-Careers-Examiner

http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/
http://opusforty.blogspot.com/



From anny.ballardini at gmail.com  Fri Dec  4 12:13:15 2009
From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Fri, 4 Dec 2009 18:13:15 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] WorldPo: Pacheco wins Cervantes Prize
In-Reply-To: <4B1939ED.8090409@opus40.org>
References: <8CC4288877837A4-25A8-FC44@webmail-m054.sysops.aol.com>
	<4B1939ED.8090409@opus40.org>
Message-ID: <4b65c2d70912040913r1a3601e8u3ad8a7b2d96b084f@mail.gmail.com>

Yes, I also always think of our James.

On Fri, Dec 4, 2009 at 5:33 PM, TheOldMole <Opus40-01 at opus40.org> wrote:

> I thought the Cervantes Prize was publication in Salt River Review.
>
> jforjames at aol.com wrote:
>
>>
>> http://www.monstersandcritics.com/news/americas/news/article_1516189.php/Mexican-poet-Pacheco-wins-top-Spanish-literature-award
>>  Madrid - Mexican writer Jose Emilio Pacheco, 70, was Monday awarded the
>> Cervantes Prize, which is regarded as the highest-ranking literature award
>> of the Spanish-speaking world, Spanish Culture Minister Angeles
>> Gonzalez-Sinde announced.
>>  The jury described Pacheco as 'an exceptional poet of the daily life with
>> depth and a capacity of creating a world of his own.'
>> Regarded as one of the major Mexican 20th-century poets, Pacheco is also a
>> novelist, short story writer, critic and translator.
>>  His poetry books include Los Elementos de la Noche (The Elements of the
>> Night, 1963), El Reposo del Fuego (The Sleep of the Fire, 1966) and No Me
>> Preguntes Como Pasa el Tiempo (Do Not Ask Me How the Time Goes By, 1969).
>>  The Cervantes Prize is worth 125,000 euros (187,500 dollars). It is
>> awarded annually by the Spanish Culture Ministry.
>>  ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> New-Poetry mailing list
>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>>
>>
>
> --
> Tad Richards
> Read my NY Writing Careers Examiner column today!
> http://www.examiner.com/x-2862-NY-Writing-Careers-Examiner
>
> http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/
> http://opusforty.blogspot.com/
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>



-- 
Anny Ballardini
http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078
http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html
I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing
star!
Friedrich Nietzsche

? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique
vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ?
Giovenale
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From halvard at gmail.com  Fri Dec  4 12:29:30 2009
From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson)
Date: Fri, 4 Dec 2009 11:29:30 -0600
Subject: [New-Poetry] Michael Lally on his brain surgery
Message-ID: <f160a1210912040929p6f8ab212vb854fc7081eb7fb@mail.gmail.com>

http://lallysalley.blogspot.com/

Hal

"We don't serve fine wine in half-pints, buddy."
                  --Robert Ashley

Halvard Johnson
================
halvard at gmail.com
http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home
http://entropyandme.blogspot.com
http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com
http://www.hamiltonstone.org
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From jforjames at aol.com  Fri Dec  4 14:42:09 2009
From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 04 Dec 2009 14:42:09 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: Annie Finch traces the evolution of the sonnet
In-Reply-To: <1102866654701.1101694517006.2467.6.5711007B@scheduler>
References: <1102866654701.1101694517006.2467.6.5711007B@scheduler>
Message-ID: <8CC43310069E234-5C28-AB46@webmail-d092.sysops.aol.com>





-----Original Message-----
From: Contemporary Poetry Review <editor at contemporarypoetryreview.net>
To: jforjames at aol.com
Sent: Fri, Dec 4, 2009 11:04 am
Subject: Annie Finch traces the evolution of the sonnet



You're receiving this email because of your relationship with CPR. Please confirm your continued interest in receiving email from us. 
 
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             "Chaos in Fourteen Lines": 
Reformations and Deformations of the Sonnet 
by Annie Finch
           





Sociologists  have discovered a surprising fact. When a group of people are in an unfenced space, no matter how large, they gravitate towards the outskirts and leave the middle empty. On the other hand, in a fenced space, they will spread out and enjoy the use of the whole area. Maybe this truth helps explain the charm of courtyards, and the fact that the etymology of the word "paradise" is simply "a walled enclosure."  It may also help explain the lasting appeal of the sonnet, the form that Rita Dove has called a "little world." 

Did I say lasting appeal? Doesn't everyone know that the sonnet should be dead by now? As the poet Tim Yu put it in his blog last year, "the real issue, to my mind, in using a form like the sonnet is belatedness." Doesn't it go without saying that the sonnet is a form too late for itself, too old-fashioned to really exist? Somehow, though, the sonnet has not cooperated with the reports of its death. People keep writing them. This essay will explore why, and how, and along the way, investigate a new model of how poetry works through time that might modify somewhat the twentieth-century adhesion to "progress." 

 "A sonnet is a moment's monument, / memorial to one dead deathless hour," wrote Dante Gabriel Rossetti in one of the most famous sonnets on the sonnet (as you might expect, no other form has inspired nearly as many tributes to itself). Rossetti expresses one of the most useful powers of the sonnet: the ability to keep a moment, to hold a feeling or experience and turn it around in the light of our awareness until many facets are evident. This multifaceted quality gives the sonnet a paradoxical feeling of freedom and expanse within confines: 


"Nuns Fret Not," William Wordsworth (1807)

Nuns fret not at their convents' narrow room;
And hermits are contented with their cells;
And students with their pensive citadels;
Maids at the wheel, the weaver at his loom,
Sit blithe and happy; bees that soar for bloom,
High as the highest Peak of Furness-fells,
Will murmur by the hour in foxglove bells:
In truth the prison, into which we doom
Ourselves, no prison is: and hence for me,
In sundry moods, 'twas pastime to be bound
Within the Sonnet's scanty plot of ground;
Pleased if some Souls (for such there needs must be)
Who have felt the weight of too much liberty,
should find brief solace there, as I have found. 


Here Wordsworth uses both the iambic pentameter and the sonnet form to illustrate the paradox of what Emerson called the "restraints that make us free." I recently saw the deep, embracing blossoms of purple foxgloves for the first time in a friend's garden; I now understand even better the sensual pleasure, wonder, and calmness that Wordsworth, who wrote 500 sonnets, was describing here. For me also, the feeling of starting a sonnet can carry a sense of mingled freedom, comfort and curious excitement that is different from starting any other kind of poem.
(Click Here to Read More)







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Aristocracies of One: 
Hannah Brooks-Motl 
on British and American Poetry 


What is the difference between British and American poetry -- especially contemporary poetry -- and why are they different? Because the two poetries are written in the same language, it seems to make more sense to ask this question of them than to ask, for example, what the differences between Italian and Spanish poetry are, or to what degree Polish poetry differs from Russian poetry. But, though those countries share as much or more history than England and the United States, their poetries are not worried over in quite the same way. While the US and the UK have different histories, social fabrics, class structures, educational systems, geographies and climates, there remains the suspicion that some other explanation must exist for why their poetries do not match. They are different and nobody doubts it, but everybody wonders why and, perhaps even more, wants a description of how.   

In the twentieth century, anthologies often opened with an attempt to explain the differences between American and British poetry. W. H. Auden's introduction to the Faber Book of Modern American Poetry (1956) is almost wholly consumed with teasing out the differences between the two cultures' verse. "From Bryant on," he declares in the first paragraph, "there is scarcely one American poet whose work, if unsigned, could be mistaken for that of an Englishman." Auden sees the defining characteristics of American poetry to be diversity ("no two poets could be more unlike each other than Longfellow and Whitman"), an uneasy relationship with nature ("in America, neither the size or condition or climate of the continent encourages . . . intimacy"), a restlessness that skewers the human relationship to both the past and the future, and a slightly self-deluded belief in the terms of its originality ("There is indeed an American mentality which is new and unique in the world but it is the product less of conscious political action than of nature, of the new and unique environment of the American continent"). These attributes stand in contrast to British poetry which prizes continuity, cozy landscapes and the longest view possible of literary tradition, so that the contemporary poet, laboring at the wrong end of the telescope, knows himself likely to be very insignificant indeed. Auden quotes Eliot's famous tradition quip, but to ironic effect: "He [any European critic] would not, of course, deny that every poet must work hard but the suggestion in the first half of the sentence that no sense of tradition is acquired except by conscious effort would seem strange to him." Auden is making the point that American poets, who must earn their long views, are more likely to feel themselves "a literary aristocracy of one." That is, they write in their own peculiar vacuum, sure that what they are doing is at once more original and more necessary than anything done before, mainly because they feel no real connection to what has been done before, if they're even aware of it. Before he makes his anthologist's apologies, Auden quotes Tocqueville's prophecy on the kind of poetry a democratic society would produce: "I am persuaded that in the end democracy diverts the imagination from all that is external to man and fixes it on man alone. Democratic nations may amuse themselves for a while with considering the productions of nature, but they are excited in reality only by a survey of themselves. . ." 

Auden's observations of American poetry sound like today's symptoms of it. The criticisms leveled at contemporary American poetry often revolve around its obsessions with the self, its skittishness, its lack of interest in craft and its emphasis on style, which can seem to insist on originality to the point of parody. In thinking about how American poetry has become the thing it has, re-reading some of these older tracts is helpful: critics like Cleanth Brooks and Donald Hall both agreed that a defining feature of American poetry -- one that set it necessarily apart from British (though they did not agree on whether that was a good thing) -- is its emphasis on originality. "American poetry . . . has always been outrageous," wrote Hall. Talking about American poets' early 20th century revolt against British influence, Brooks wrote "one effect . . . was to set a higher premium on originality itself." Both Hall and Brooks were interested in the relationship between British and American poetry, the points at which the two had diverged and the consequences of that parting. (Click Here to Read the Full Article)




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CPR editor Ernest Hilbert's new chapbook, Aim Your Arrows at the Sun, is now available from LATR Press in New York.

Contact Daniel Lin at daniel at loveamongtheruins.com. 

For more information about the press, please visit latr.tumblr.com.

Hand-sewn in an edition of 250 copies.  

>From Adam Kirsch's Foreword to Aim Your Arrows at the Sun: "To be haunted, for an American poet today, is a rare and enviable condition. Not by personal demons -- everyone has those, and when poets write about them they are really haunting themselves. To be genuinely haunted, as Ernest Hilbert is in these outward- and backward-looking poems, one must be conscious of the past, and of the chastening contrast between the past and the present; in other words, one must have a sense of history. When Hilbert is visited by the past, in these poems at least, it is by grand and violent phantoms: 'I read on about the lives and deaths of kings,' he writes in a Lowellian phrase in 'April Arsenal.' Like Robert Lowell, Hilbert is drawn to scenes of carnage, where the true face of humanity seems to reveal itself."            








"Recycled in  Eternity"
Harold Norse (1916 - 2009)
By Jack Foley


"Norse  was outrageous," said Neeli Cherkovski, recalling his days of cruising San Francisco with gay icon Harold Norse. Norse himself wrote,  


a fire in my brain

      burns

the slag & trash deposits

                                    of my century 


Norse knew many of the famous people of his day -- James Baldwin, to whom he dedicated his memoir, Bastard Angel; Tennessee Williams; Allen Ginsberg; W. H. Auden; William Burroughs; Jack Kerouac; Frank O'Hara; Julian Beck; Ana?s Nin, etc. -- but in 2003 he remarked, "People expect, as I did, the famous writers and poets to be just open and wonderfully giving, and they were not. They all wanted to go to bed with me." 

Born out of wedlock on July 6, 1916, Harold Norse was the "bastard angel" product of an affair his Lithuanian immigrant mother had with a man of German or German-Jewish descent. The man soon deserted the family. "My mother," Norse wrote, "must have been too melodramatic for him." "My birth," he discovered later, "was an unmentionable outrage. To my grandmother, a product of czarist Russia, I was no less than the son of the Devil. During her long, tedious life my mother was unable to deal with the shame and the guilt." When his mother married another man, Harold took on the surname of his stepfather, Albaum -- a man he came to hate: "When I learned that he had died of a coronary, I felt a rush of joy. I felt free. Home was the most violent place I knew." In the early 1950s, Harold reinvented both himself and his name by rearranging the family name "Rosen" into "Norse."  

Harold earned a bachelor's degree in English literature at Brooklyn College in 1938. While there, he edited the college literary magazine and began writing academic poetry. He had a romantic affair with Chester Kallman, who was later to be the companion of W.H. Auden. While attending New York University to gain a masters degree, Harold met William Carlos Williams. 

Auden and Williams were to become the poles of Norse's early work. "It is all right to enjoy [T.S.] Eliot," Williams told Norse, in 1951, "but remember, he ran away from the thing which you have to realize to come out whole. Watch your step." "I was at a crossroads," Norse wrote of that period. If he ultimately chose Williams over both Auden and the academy, he nonetheless retained a connection to the world both Auden and the academy represented. Even at its freest, Norse's verse could echo the iambic pentameter that Williams hated. Nor was projective verse an option. Fascinated by Charles Olson's "Projective Verse" essay (1950) -- which Williams admired -- Norse, significantly, disliked Olson's piece "for its style." 

In 1953, Norse moved to Italy where he encountered both a far less puritanical attitude towards homosexuality and the work of the 19th-century poet Giuseppe Gioachino Belli, who wrote in the Roman dialect. Norse's translations of Belli were made, he said, "with a dictionary in one hand and a Roman in the other." Roman Sonnets, with a preface by William Carlos Williams, was published in 1960:


If ya wanna be funny, it's enough to be

A gentleman. All the titled and well-heeled,

Any customs they have, gotta be nutty,

Otherwise they think they're losin' the field. 


Williams praised Norse's work as an example of "the American idiom" -- "an idiom inaccessible to anyone before the present time" -- but Norse's translations were also deliberate, formal productions: rhyming sonnets.(Click Here to Read the Full Article) 





This Month 

Annie Finch on the Sonnet 

Hannah Brooks-Motl on British and American Poetry 

Jack Foley on Harold Norse 

Coming up in the CPR 



Coming up in future issues of the CPR:



Dan Brown on Kevin Young

Rachel Wetzsteon on Larkin & Happiness 

Rebecca Porte on Thomas James and New Zealand poet Robin Hyde

Marit MacArthur on Robert Frost

Anthony Moore on Seamus Heaney 

David Rothman on Poetry Handbooks 

Amy Lemmon on the Legacy of Sylvia Plath

Carol Bere on Carol Ann Duffy

Gregory Dowling on Auden's debt to Byron 

Katy Evans-Bush on Tone and Archaism in Modern Poetry

Adam Dressler on Adam Kirsch

Jan Schreiber on Judgment in Poetry Criticism 

Vic Peterson on John Gery 






























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From jforjames at aol.com  Fri Dec  4 15:06:07 2009
From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 04 Dec 2009 15:06:07 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] W. S. Merwin tribute
Message-ID: <8CC433459B016CF-5C28-B2EF@webmail-d092.sysops.aol.com>


http://www.americamagazine.org/content/article.cfm?article_id=12037
Pure Poetry
James S. Torrens | DECEMBER 14, 2009 

W. S. Merwin, born in 1927, is one of the most lasting and continually productive of American poets. In addition to his own multiple volumes, beginning in 1952 with A Mask for Janus, he has been a distinguished translator of poetry in French, Spanish, Latin and Portuguese. Obvious-ly he appreciates quality when he finds it. His long elegiac poem, ?Lament for the Makers,? guides us through those he has admired and held as friends for half a century. It is a roll call of the greats, from Dylan Thomas to James Merrill, even as it is also a sequence of losses. He has found in these past masters ?the true sound of brevity/ that will go on after me.? Reading them convinced him that the ?presence I had known/ sometimes in words would not be gone.? The voice of good poetry is enduring.

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From jforjames at aol.com  Fri Dec  4 15:07:52 2009
From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 04 Dec 2009 15:07:52 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Whitman and Civil War art
Message-ID: <8CC4334982E75EE-5C28-B383@webmail-d092.sysops.aol.com>


http://www.artdaily.org/index.asp?int_sec=2&int_new=34358
 
KATONAH, NY.- The Katonah Museum of Art is presenting Bold, Cautious, True: Walt Whitman and American Art of the Civil War Era through January 24, 2010. Through excerpts of Whitman?s writing paired with some of the most important artworks of the mid-nineteenth century, "Bold, Cautious, True" creates an authentic window to America?s social and art history, with a poignant view of its bloodiest war. 

A champion of America and the individual, Whitman contributed to the war through his literary talents and by nursing wounded soldiers. Although he published no poetry during the Civil War, he wrote many poems about his war experiences for later editions of his legendary "Leaves of Grass". His poetic language and his celebration of the individual paralleled the changes taking hold in American art during and after the Civil War. Highlighting Whitman?s poems such as ?Drum Taps,? the literature of "Bold, Cautious, True" helps viewers read the exhibition and the period as a whole. 

With Whitman?s literary art along with the work of artists such as Winslow Homer, Eastman Johnson, Sanford Robinson Gifford, Frederic Church, and John Frederick Kensett trace the emotional and political themes of the fratricidal war?secession, death, emancipation, and an uncertain future for a young country. Organized into five thematic sections, The Poetics of a House Divided; The Poetics of Service; The Wound Dresser; The Poetics of Endings and Beginnings; and Bold, Cautious, True, the exhibition ? with close to 60 works ? is a landmark study that sheds light on the cross-currents of history, literature, and the visual arts illuminating a troubled era in American history. 

"Bold, Cautious, True" is being presented in partnership with the Dixon Gallery and Gardens in Memphis, TN where the show was organized and originally opened in July 2009. The exhibition includes a handsome 180-page hardcover catalogue written by Kevin Sharp, Director of the Dixon. 

Neil Watson, Executive Director of the KMA, said, ?The Katonah Museum of Art is proud to partner with the Dixon Gallery and Gardens on such a groundbreaking exhibition. This is a stunning show, with an original perspective that is galvanizing. The exhibition and accompanying catalogue will change the way we think about American art during the Civil War era.? 
 

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From cervantes.james at gmail.com  Fri Dec  4 16:10:43 2009
From: cervantes.james at gmail.com (James Cervantes)
Date: Fri, 4 Dec 2009 14:10:43 -0700
Subject: [New-Poetry] WorldPo: Pacheco wins Cervantes Prize
In-Reply-To: <4b65c2d70912040913r1a3601e8u3ad8a7b2d96b084f@mail.gmail.com>
References: <8CC4288877837A4-25A8-FC44@webmail-m054.sysops.aol.com>
	<4B1939ED.8090409@opus40.org>
	<4b65c2d70912040913r1a3601e8u3ad8a7b2d96b084f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <648208b60912041310i3a37140ekdf0ba7db61eab7d2@mail.gmail.com>

Good.  It's a family thing.

- Diego Valent?n Cervantes

On Fri, Dec 4, 2009 at 10:13 AM, Anny Ballardini
<anny.ballardini at gmail.com>wrote:

> Yes, I also always think of our James.
>
>
> On Fri, Dec 4, 2009 at 5:33 PM, TheOldMole <Opus40-01 at opus40.org> wrote:
>
>> I thought the Cervantes Prize was publication in Salt River Review.
>>
>> jforjames at aol.com wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> http://www.monstersandcritics.com/news/americas/news/article_1516189.php/Mexican-poet-Pacheco-wins-top-Spanish-literature-award
>>>  Madrid - Mexican writer Jose Emilio Pacheco, 70, was Monday awarded the
>>> Cervantes Prize, which is regarded as the highest-ranking literature award
>>> of the Spanish-speaking world, Spanish Culture Minister Angeles
>>> Gonzalez-Sinde announced.
>>>  The jury described Pacheco as 'an exceptional poet of the daily life
>>> with depth and a capacity of creating a world of his own.'
>>> Regarded as one of the major Mexican 20th-century poets, Pacheco is also
>>> a novelist, short story writer, critic and translator.
>>>  His poetry books include Los Elementos de la Noche (The Elements of the
>>> Night, 1963), El Reposo del Fuego (The Sleep of the Fire, 1966) and No Me
>>> Preguntes Como Pasa el Tiempo (Do Not Ask Me How the Time Goes By, 1969).
>>>  The Cervantes Prize is worth 125,000 euros (187,500 dollars). It is
>>> awarded annually by the Spanish Culture Ministry.
>>>  ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> New-Poetry mailing list
>>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>>>
>>>
>>
>> --
>> Tad Richards
>> Read my NY Writing Careers Examiner column today!
>> http://www.examiner.com/x-2862-NY-Writing-Careers-Examiner
>>
>> http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/
>> http://opusforty.blogspot.com/
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> New-Poetry mailing list
>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Anny Ballardini
> http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
> http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
> http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078
> http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html
> I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing
> star!
> Friedrich Nietzsche
>
> ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique
> vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ?
> Giovenale
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
>


-- 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org
http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning
http://www.fieralingue.it/documenti/mr_bondo.pdf
http://www.poetserv.org/jvc/home/index.html
http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamescervantes/
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From cervantes.james at gmail.com  Fri Dec  4 16:13:40 2009
From: cervantes.james at gmail.com (James Cervantes)
Date: Fri, 4 Dec 2009 14:13:40 -0700
Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: Annie Finch traces the evolution of the sonnet
In-Reply-To: <8CC43310069E234-5C28-AB46@webmail-d092.sysops.aol.com>
References: <1102866654701.1101694517006.2467.6.5711007B@scheduler>
	<8CC43310069E234-5C28-AB46@webmail-d092.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <648208b60912041313j305ad1ees40a52ec14c024a11@mail.gmail.com>

What?  No Halvard Johnson sonnet?

- Jim

On Fri, Dec 4, 2009 at 12:42 PM, <jforjames at aol.com> wrote:

>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Contemporary Poetry Review <editor at contemporarypoetryreview.net>
> To: jforjames at aol.com
> Sent: Fri, Dec 4, 2009 11:04 am
> Subject: Annie Finch traces the evolution of the sonnet
>
>  You're receiving this email because of your relationship with CPR. Please
> confirm<http://visitor.constantcontact.com/c.jsp?t=1102866654701.2467.981183161.2&m=1101694517006&wl=F>your continued interest in receiving email from us.
>
> You may unsubscribe<http://visitor.constantcontact.com/d.jsp?v=001ti8yLLtrqgpzWd60qTfLO0Oom-zzorMnMWOavhL9TiP2By2YrUEm8srvWcUvKM-NWEXwwgl0vgHaDTkve3Angw%3D%3D&p=un>if you no longer wish to receive our emails.
>       [image: CPR Logo]<http://rs6.net/tn.jsp?et=1102866654701&s=2467&e=001MdrIgzN2J9oAt3Zp_dTA2VS_fo5TaktNZrLaYCbZ8upZIDZrWH_ny7ycaQ2nZmqHzJIdu2m61oMHEfIR2ioh85Juy_EhY5J9-RaiIgAozIA=>
>            "Chaos in Fourteen Lines":
> Reformations and Deformations of the Sonnet
> by Annie Finch
>
>    Sociologists  have discovered a surprising fact. When a group of people
> are in an unfenced space, no matter how large, they gravitate towards the
> outskirts and leave the middle empty. On the other hand, in a fenced space,
> they will spread out and enjoy the use of the whole area. Maybe this truth
> helps explain the charm of courtyards, and the fact that the etymology of
> the word "paradise" is simply "a walled enclosure."  It may also help
> explain the lasting appeal of the sonnet, the form that Rita Dove has called
> a "little world."
>
> Did I say lasting appeal? Doesn't everyone know that the sonnet should be
> dead by now? As the poet Tim Yu put it in his blog last year, "the real
> issue, to my mind, in using a form like the sonnet is belatedness." Doesn't
> it go without saying that the sonnet is a form too late for itself, too
> old-fashioned to really exist? Somehow, though, the sonnet has not
> cooperated with the reports of its death. People keep writing them. This
> essay will explore why, and how, and along the way, investigate a new model
> of how poetry works through time that might modify somewhat the
> twentieth-century adhesion to "progress."
>
>  "A sonnet is a moment's monument, / memorial to one dead deathless hour,"
> wrote Dante Gabriel Rossetti in one of the most famous sonnets on the sonnet
> (as you might expect, no other form has inspired nearly as many tributes to
> itself). Rossetti expresses one of the most useful powers of the sonnet: the
> ability to keep a moment, to hold a feeling or experience and turn it around
> in the light of our awareness until many facets are evident. This
> multifaceted quality gives the sonnet a paradoxical feeling of freedom and
> expanse within confines:
>
>  "Nuns Fret Not," William Wordsworth (1807)
>
> Nuns fret not at their convents' narrow room;
> And hermits are contented with their cells;
> And students with their pensive citadels;
> Maids at the wheel, the weaver at his loom,
> Sit blithe and happy; bees that soar for bloom,
> High as the highest Peak of Furness-fells,
> Will murmur by the hour in foxglove bells:
> In truth the prison, into which we doom
> Ourselves, no prison is: and hence for me,
> In sundry moods, 'twas pastime to be bound
> Within the Sonnet's scanty plot of ground;
> Pleased if some Souls (for such there needs must be)
> Who have felt the weight of too much liberty,
> should find brief solace there, as I have found.
>
> Here Wordsworth uses both the iambic pentameter and the sonnet form to
> illustrate the paradox of what Emerson called the "restraints that make us
> free." I recently saw the deep, embracing blossoms of purple foxgloves for
> the first time in a friend's garden; I now understand even better the
> sensual pleasure, wonder, and calmness that Wordsworth, who wrote 500
> sonnets, was describing here. For me also, the feeling of starting a sonnet
> can carry a sense of mingled freedom, comfort and curious excitement that is
> different from starting any other kind of poem.
> (Click Here to Read More<http://rs6.net/tn.jsp?et=1102866654701&s=2467&e=001MdrIgzN2J9oq0eqs0e1TZVefu-Y9umXbNWrPaHJBaxZ8OfAzonjXSGdCiuUENJ4eNSgJZ6odLwLjkZ8UhuBzsX0uzweQv90NNySTaqCLJLIIUd106c-cXG_ZgIdJbe9f>
> )     *Subscribe to the CPR archive!*
> $6 per month or just $18 per year!<http://rs6.net/tn.jsp?et=1102866654701&s=2467&e=001MdrIgzN2J9o8XHRgyZjVw0OW_0QhmkcPrIEamCD6fX8nLZ38QwDxh-5w4KVmxrgMXnjkfk3O7MFJLLN-A--FfUSfSOw7e92PgQWFIaLayoXvpuwxjULFeQ==>
>
> Enjoy access to over ten years of interviews, articles, reviews, and
> essays.
>
>    Aristocracies of One:
> Hannah Brooks-Motl
> on British and American Poetry
>
> What is the difference between British and American poetry -- especially
> contemporary poetry -- and why are they different? Because the two poetries
> are written in the same language, it seems to make more sense to ask this
> question of them than to ask, for example, what the differences between
> Italian and Spanish poetry are, or to what degree Polish poetry differs from
> Russian poetry. But, though those countries share as much or more history
> than England and the United States, their poetries are not worried over in
> quite the same way. While the US and the UK have different histories, social
> fabrics, class structures, educational systems, geographies and climates,
> there remains the suspicion that some other explanation must exist for why
> their poetries do not match. They are different and nobody doubts it, but
> everybody wonders why and, perhaps even more, wants a description of how.
>
> In the twentieth century, anthologies often opened with an attempt to
> explain the differences between American and British poetry. W. H. Auden's
> introduction to the Faber Book of Modern American Poetry (1956) is almost
> wholly consumed with teasing out the differences between the two cultures'
> verse. "From Bryant on," he declares in the first paragraph, "there is
> scarcely one American poet whose work, if unsigned, could be mistaken for
> that of an Englishman." Auden sees the defining characteristics of American
> poetry to be diversity ("no two poets could be more unlike each other than
> Longfellow and Whitman"), an uneasy relationship with nature ("in America,
> neither the size or condition or climate of the continent encourages . . .
> intimacy"), a restlessness that skewers the human relationship to both the
> past and the future, and a slightly self-deluded belief in the terms of its
> originality ("There is indeed an American mentality which is new and unique
> in the world but it is the product less of conscious political action than
> of nature, of the new and unique environment of the American continent").
> These attributes stand in contrast to British poetry which prizes
> continuity, cozy landscapes and the longest view possible of literary
> tradition, so that the contemporary poet, laboring at the wrong end of the
> telescope, knows himself likely to be very insignificant indeed. Auden
> quotes Eliot's famous tradition quip, but to ironic effect: "He [any
> European critic] would not, of course, deny that every poet must work hard
> but the suggestion in the first half of the sentence that no sense of
> tradition is acquired except by conscious effort would seem strange to him."
> Auden is making the point that American poets, who must earn their long
> views, are more likely to feel themselves "a literary aristocracy of one."
> That is, they write in their own peculiar vacuum, sure that what they are
> doing is at once more original and more necessary than anything done before,
> mainly because they feel no real connection to what has been done before, if
> they're even aware of it. Before he makes his anthologist's apologies, Auden
> quotes Tocqueville's prophecy on the kind of poetry a democratic society
> would produce: "I am persuaded that in the end democracy diverts the
> imagination from all that is external to man and fixes it on man alone.
> Democratic nations may amuse themselves for a while with considering the
> productions of nature, but they are excited in reality only by a survey of
> themselves. . ."
>
> Auden's observations of American poetry sound like today's symptoms of it.
> The criticisms leveled at contemporary American poetry often revolve around
> its obsessions with the self, its skittishness, its lack of interest in
> craft and its emphasis on style, which can seem to insist on originality to
> the point of parody. In thinking about how American poetry has become the
> thing it has, re-reading some of these older tracts is helpful: critics like
> Cleanth Brooks and Donald Hall both agreed that a defining feature of
> American poetry -- one that set it necessarily apart from British (though
> they did not agree on whether that was a good thing) -- is its emphasis on
> originality. "American poetry . . . has always been outrageous," wrote Hall.
> Talking about American poets' early 20th century revolt against British
> influence, Brooks wrote "one effect . . . was to set a higher premium on
> originality itself." Both Hall and Brooks were interested in the
> relationship between British and American poetry, the points at which the
> two had diverged and the consequences of that parting. (Click Here to Read
> the Full Article<http://rs6.net/tn.jsp?et=1102866654701&s=2467&e=001MdrIgzN2J9pYcFyFLhFpQ8dATralnyhRIvnWEHUTRdmrRLULfd53xX2-AKaWJqw9as-TMF73lFkKRHChqhs8zyF3N4ait3TM1ieXxNz2zzwo0NzqDHoe-yOie5sXWJsOSlLi6PAKd6Y=>
> )
>   Help
> the CPR
>  Please remember all the weary critics out there sweating over their
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> .
>
> Your contribution helps to sustain the most energetic independent voices in
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>
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>
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> Contemporary Poetry Review
> PO Box 5222
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> USA
>
> With your help, we will continue to resuscitate the vital art of poetry
> criticism.
>  *
> *  *[image: Aim Your Arrows at the Sun]
> *
> CPR editor Ernest Hilbert's new chapbook, Aim Your Arrows at the Sun, is
> now available from LATR Press in New York.
>
> Contact Daniel Lin at daniel at loveamongtheruins.com.
>
> For more information about the press, please visit latr.tumblr.com<http://rs6.net/tn.jsp?et=1102866654701&s=2467&e=001MdrIgzN2J9rcpasi5DHH2ltsIPrApkk0AqG8cL4IdebIR-TRtV5gIkqHI8OIbDzFxp1E53f-nbKbbOJCiDH57ZeGUTKaF1cKKl21R_YNKi8=>
> .
>
> Hand-sewn in an edition of 250 copies.
>
> From Adam Kirsch's Foreword to Aim Your Arrows at the Sun: "To be haunted,
> for an American poet today, is a rare and enviable condition. Not by
> personal demons -- everyone has those, and when poets write about them they
> are really haunting themselves. To be genuinely haunted, as Ernest Hilbert
> is in these outward- and backward-looking poems, one must be conscious of
> the past, and of the chastening contrast between the past and the present;
> in other words, one must have a sense of history. When Hilbert is visited by
> the past, in these poems at least, it is by grand and violent phantoms: 'I
> read on about the lives and deaths of kings,' he writes in a Lowellian
> phrase in 'April Arsenal.' Like Robert Lowell, Hilbert is drawn to scenes of
> carnage, where the true face of humanity seems to reveal itself."
>
>      "Recycled in  Eternity"
> Harold Norse (1916 - 2009)
> By Jack Foley
>
> "Norse  was outrageous," said Neeli Cherkovski, recalling his days of
> cruising San Francisco with gay icon Harold Norse. Norse himself wrote,
>
>  a fire in my brain
>
>       burns
>
> the slag & trash deposits
>
>                                     of my century
>
> Norse knew many of the famous people of his day -- James Baldwin, to whom
> he dedicated his memoir, Bastard Angel; Tennessee Williams; Allen
> Ginsberg; W. H. Auden; William Burroughs; Jack Kerouac; Frank O'Hara; Julian
> Beck; Ana?s Nin, etc. -- but in 2003 he remarked, "People expect, as I did,
> the famous writers and poets to be just open and wonderfully giving, and
> they were not. They all wanted to go to bed with me."
>
> [image: Norse]Born out of wedlock on July 6, 1916, Harold Norse was the
> "bastard angel" product of an affair his Lithuanian immigrant mother had
> with a man of German or German-Jewish descent. The man soon deserted the
> family. "My mother," Norse wrote, "must have been too melodramatic for him."
> "My birth," he discovered later, "was an unmentionable outrage. To my
> grandmother, a product of czarist Russia, I was no less than the son of the
> Devil. During her long, tedious life my mother was unable to deal with the
> shame and the guilt." When his mother married another man, Harold took on
> the surname of his stepfather, Albaum -- a man he came to hate: "When I
> learned that he had died of a coronary, I felt a rush of joy. I felt free.
> Home was the most violent place I knew." In the early 1950s, Harold
> reinvented both himself and his name by rearranging the family name "Rosen"
> into "Norse."
>
> Harold earned a bachelor's degree in English literature at Brooklyn College
> in 1938. While there, he edited the college literary magazine and began
> writing academic poetry. He had a romantic affair with Chester Kallman, who
> was later to be the companion of W.H. Auden. While attending New York
> University to gain a masters degree, Harold met William Carlos Williams.
>
> Auden and Williams were to become the poles of Norse's early work. "It is
> all right to enjoy [T.S.] Eliot," Williams told Norse, in 1951, "but
> remember, he ran away from the thing which you have to realize to come out
> whole. Watch your step." "I was at a crossroads," Norse wrote of that
> period. If he ultimately chose Williams over both Auden and the academy, he
> nonetheless retained a connection to the world both Auden and the academy
> represented. Even at its freest, Norse's verse could echo the iambic
> pentameter that Williams hated. Nor was projective verse an option.
> Fascinated by Charles Olson's "Projective Verse" essay (1950) -- which
> Williams admired -- Norse, significantly, disliked Olson's piece "for its
> style."
>
> In 1953, Norse moved to Italy where he encountered both a far less
> puritanical attitude towards homosexuality and the work of the 19th-century
> poet Giuseppe Gioachino Belli, who wrote in the Roman dialect. Norse's
> translations of Belli were made, he said, "with a dictionary in one hand and
> a Roman in the other." Roman Sonnets, with a preface by William Carlos
> Williams, was published in 1960:
>
>  If ya wanna be funny, it's enough to be
>
> A gentleman. All the titled and well-heeled,
>
> Any customs they have, gotta be nutty,
>
> Otherwise they think they're losin' the field.
>
> Williams praised Norse's work as an example of "the American idiom" -- "an
> idiom inaccessible to anyone before the present time" -- but Norse's
> translations were also deliberate, formal productions: rhyming sonnets.(Click
> Here to Read the Full Article<http://rs6.net/tn.jsp?et=1102866654701&s=2467&e=001MdrIgzN2J9rCYG8VfPRNCDX61Ha3cl6vHnop42TE17mdgsecoR9hDVoF5nkLCAMM19yXz5GYcrY55JT-9GsbbK3z0DluUJtyVj2-tURYt6gMRPETe4lgDjt-Be4HhWXQ>
> )
>    *This Month * *Annie Finch on the Sonnet<http://webmail.aol.com/29644-412/aol-1/en-us/Suite.aspx#LETTER.BLOCK17>
> *  *Hannah Brooks-Motl on British and American Poetry<http://webmail.aol.com/29644-412/aol-1/en-us/Suite.aspx#LETTER.BLOCK26>
> *  *Jack Foley on Harold Norse<http://webmail.aol.com/29644-412/aol-1/en-us/Suite.aspx#LETTER.BLOCK11>
> *  *Coming up in the CPR<http://webmail.aol.com/29644-412/aol-1/en-us/Suite.aspx#LETTER.BLOCK7>
> *   Coming up in future issues of the CPR:
>
>
> Dan Brown on Kevin Young
>
> Rachel Wetzsteon on Larkin & Happiness
>
> Rebecca Porte on Thomas James and New Zealand poet Robin Hyde
>
> Marit MacArthur on Robert Frost
>
> Anthony Moore on Seamus Heaney
>
> David Rothman on Poetry Handbooks
>
> Amy Lemmon on the Legacy of Sylvia Plath
>
> Carol Bere on Carol Ann Duffy
>
> Gregory Dowling on Auden's debt to Byron
>
> Katy Evans-Bush on Tone and Archaism in Modern Poetry
>
> Adam Dressler on Adam Kirsch
>
> Jan Schreiber on Judgment in Poetry Criticism
>
> Vic Peterson on John Gery
>
>              Forward email<http://ui.constantcontact.com/sa/fwtf.jsp?m=1101694517006&ea=jforjames%40aol.com&a=1102866654701>
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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From halvard at gmail.com  Fri Dec  4 17:16:43 2009
From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson)
Date: Fri, 4 Dec 2009 16:16:43 -0600
Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: Annie Finch traces the evolution of the sonnet
In-Reply-To: <648208b60912041313j305ad1ees40a52ec14c024a11@mail.gmail.com>
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	<648208b60912041313j305ad1ees40a52ec14c024a11@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <f160a1210912041416k4db9c575s92b032a754b18db9@mail.gmail.com>

Looks like Finch is running late, hombre.

Hal

"We don't serve fine wine in half-pints, buddy."
                  --Robert Ashley

Halvard Johnson
================
halvard at gmail.com
http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home
http://entropyandme.blogspot.com
http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com
http://www.hamiltonstone.org


On Fri, Dec 4, 2009 at 3:13 PM, James Cervantes
<cervantes.james at gmail.com>wrote:

> What?  No Halvard Johnson sonnet?
>
> - Jim
>
> On Fri, Dec 4, 2009 at 12:42 PM, <jforjames at aol.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Contemporary Poetry Review <editor at contemporarypoetryreview.net>
>> To: jforjames at aol.com
>> Sent: Fri, Dec 4, 2009 11:04 am
>> Subject: Annie Finch traces the evolution of the sonnet
>>
>>  You're receiving this email because of your relationship with CPR.
>> Please confirm<http://visitor.constantcontact.com/c.jsp?t=1102866654701.2467.981183161.2&m=1101694517006&wl=F>your continued interest in receiving email from us.
>>
>> You may unsubscribe<http://visitor.constantcontact.com/d.jsp?v=001ti8yLLtrqgpzWd60qTfLO0Oom-zzorMnMWOavhL9TiP2By2YrUEm8srvWcUvKM-NWEXwwgl0vgHaDTkve3Angw%3D%3D&p=un>if you no longer wish to receive our emails.
>>       [image: CPR Logo]<http://rs6.net/tn.jsp?et=1102866654701&s=2467&e=001MdrIgzN2J9oAt3Zp_dTA2VS_fo5TaktNZrLaYCbZ8upZIDZrWH_ny7ycaQ2nZmqHzJIdu2m61oMHEfIR2ioh85Juy_EhY5J9-RaiIgAozIA=>
>>            "Chaos in Fourteen Lines":
>> Reformations and Deformations of the Sonnet
>> by Annie Finch
>>
>>    Sociologists  have discovered a surprising fact. When a group of
>> people are in an unfenced space, no matter how large, they gravitate towards
>> the outskirts and leave the middle empty. On the other hand, in a fenced
>> space, they will spread out and enjoy the use of the whole area. Maybe this
>> truth helps explain the charm of courtyards, and the fact that the etymology
>> of the word "paradise" is simply "a walled enclosure."  It may also help
>> explain the lasting appeal of the sonnet, the form that Rita Dove has called
>> a "little world."
>>
>> Did I say lasting appeal? Doesn't everyone know that the sonnet should be
>> dead by now? As the poet Tim Yu put it in his blog last year, "the real
>> issue, to my mind, in using a form like the sonnet is belatedness." Doesn't
>> it go without saying that the sonnet is a form too late for itself, too
>> old-fashioned to really exist? Somehow, though, the sonnet has not
>> cooperated with the reports of its death. People keep writing them. This
>> essay will explore why, and how, and along the way, investigate a new model
>> of how poetry works through time that might modify somewhat the
>> twentieth-century adhesion to "progress."
>>
>>  "A sonnet is a moment's monument, / memorial to one dead deathless hour,"
>> wrote Dante Gabriel Rossetti in one of the most famous sonnets on the sonnet
>> (as you might expect, no other form has inspired nearly as many tributes to
>> itself). Rossetti expresses one of the most useful powers of the sonnet: the
>> ability to keep a moment, to hold a feeling or experience and turn it around
>> in the light of our awareness until many facets are evident. This
>> multifaceted quality gives the sonnet a paradoxical feeling of freedom and
>> expanse within confines:
>>
>>  "Nuns Fret Not," William Wordsworth (1807)
>>
>> Nuns fret not at their convents' narrow room;
>> And hermits are contented with their cells;
>> And students with their pensive citadels;
>> Maids at the wheel, the weaver at his loom,
>> Sit blithe and happy; bees that soar for bloom,
>> High as the highest Peak of Furness-fells,
>> Will murmur by the hour in foxglove bells:
>> In truth the prison, into which we doom
>> Ourselves, no prison is: and hence for me,
>> In sundry moods, 'twas pastime to be bound
>> Within the Sonnet's scanty plot of ground;
>> Pleased if some Souls (for such there needs must be)
>> Who have felt the weight of too much liberty,
>> should find brief solace there, as I have found.
>>
>> Here Wordsworth uses both the iambic pentameter and the sonnet form to
>> illustrate the paradox of what Emerson called the "restraints that make us
>> free." I recently saw the deep, embracing blossoms of purple foxgloves for
>> the first time in a friend's garden; I now understand even better the
>> sensual pleasure, wonder, and calmness that Wordsworth, who wrote 500
>> sonnets, was describing here. For me also, the feeling of starting a sonnet
>> can carry a sense of mingled freedom, comfort and curious excitement that is
>> different from starting any other kind of poem.
>> (Click Here to Read More<http://rs6.net/tn.jsp?et=1102866654701&s=2467&e=001MdrIgzN2J9oq0eqs0e1TZVefu-Y9umXbNWrPaHJBaxZ8OfAzonjXSGdCiuUENJ4eNSgJZ6odLwLjkZ8UhuBzsX0uzweQv90NNySTaqCLJLIIUd106c-cXG_ZgIdJbe9f>
>> )      *Subscribe to the CPR archive!*
>> $6 per month or just $18 per year!<http://rs6.net/tn.jsp?et=1102866654701&s=2467&e=001MdrIgzN2J9o8XHRgyZjVw0OW_0QhmkcPrIEamCD6fX8nLZ38QwDxh-5w4KVmxrgMXnjkfk3O7MFJLLN-A--FfUSfSOw7e92PgQWFIaLayoXvpuwxjULFeQ==>
>>
>> Enjoy access to over ten years of interviews, articles, reviews, and
>> essays.
>>
>>    Aristocracies of One:
>> Hannah Brooks-Motl
>> on British and American Poetry
>>
>> What is the difference between British and American poetry -- especially
>> contemporary poetry -- and why are they different? Because the two poetries
>> are written in the same language, it seems to make more sense to ask this
>> question of them than to ask, for example, what the differences between
>> Italian and Spanish poetry are, or to what degree Polish poetry differs from
>> Russian poetry. But, though those countries share as much or more history
>> than England and the United States, their poetries are not worried over in
>> quite the same way. While the US and the UK have different histories, social
>> fabrics, class structures, educational systems, geographies and climates,
>> there remains the suspicion that some other explanation must exist for why
>> their poetries do not match. They are different and nobody doubts it, but
>> everybody wonders why and, perhaps even more, wants a description of how.
>>
>> In the twentieth century, anthologies often opened with an attempt to
>> explain the differences between American and British poetry. W. H. Auden's
>> introduction to the Faber Book of Modern American Poetry (1956) is almost
>> wholly consumed with teasing out the differences between the two cultures'
>> verse. "From Bryant on," he declares in the first paragraph, "there is
>> scarcely one American poet whose work, if unsigned, could be mistaken for
>> that of an Englishman." Auden sees the defining characteristics of American
>> poetry to be diversity ("no two poets could be more unlike each other than
>> Longfellow and Whitman"), an uneasy relationship with nature ("in America,
>> neither the size or condition or climate of the continent encourages . . .
>> intimacy"), a restlessness that skewers the human relationship to both the
>> past and the future, and a slightly self-deluded belief in the terms of its
>> originality ("There is indeed an American mentality which is new and unique
>> in the world but it is the product less of conscious political action than
>> of nature, of the new and unique environment of the American continent").
>> These attributes stand in contrast to British poetry which prizes
>> continuity, cozy landscapes and the longest view possible of literary
>> tradition, so that the contemporary poet, laboring at the wrong end of the
>> telescope, knows himself likely to be very insignificant indeed. Auden
>> quotes Eliot's famous tradition quip, but to ironic effect: "He [any
>> European critic] would not, of course, deny that every poet must work hard
>> but the suggestion in the first half of the sentence that no sense of
>> tradition is acquired except by conscious effort would seem strange to him."
>> Auden is making the point that American poets, who must earn their long
>> views, are more likely to feel themselves "a literary aristocracy of one."
>> That is, they write in their own peculiar vacuum, sure that what they are
>> doing is at once more original and more necessary than anything done before,
>> mainly because they feel no real connection to what has been done before, if
>> they're even aware of it. Before he makes his anthologist's apologies, Auden
>> quotes Tocqueville's prophecy on the kind of poetry a democratic society
>> would produce: "I am persuaded that in the end democracy diverts the
>> imagination from all that is external to man and fixes it on man alone.
>> Democratic nations may amuse themselves for a while with considering the
>> productions of nature, but they are excited in reality only by a survey of
>> themselves. . ."
>>
>> Auden's observations of American poetry sound like today's symptoms of it.
>> The criticisms leveled at contemporary American poetry often revolve around
>> its obsessions with the self, its skittishness, its lack of interest in
>> craft and its emphasis on style, which can seem to insist on originality to
>> the point of parody. In thinking about how American poetry has become the
>> thing it has, re-reading some of these older tracts is helpful: critics like
>> Cleanth Brooks and Donald Hall both agreed that a defining feature of
>> American poetry -- one that set it necessarily apart from British (though
>> they did not agree on whether that was a good thing) -- is its emphasis on
>> originality. "American poetry . . . has always been outrageous," wrote Hall.
>> Talking about American poets' early 20th century revolt against British
>> influence, Brooks wrote "one effect . . . was to set a higher premium on
>> originality itself." Both Hall and Brooks were interested in the
>> relationship between British and American poetry, the points at which the
>> two had diverged and the consequences of that parting. (Click Here to
>> Read the Full Article<http://rs6.net/tn.jsp?et=1102866654701&s=2467&e=001MdrIgzN2J9pYcFyFLhFpQ8dATralnyhRIvnWEHUTRdmrRLULfd53xX2-AKaWJqw9as-TMF73lFkKRHChqhs8zyF3N4ait3TM1ieXxNz2zzwo0NzqDHoe-yOie5sXWJsOSlLi6PAKd6Y=>
>> )
>>   Help
>> the CPR
>>  Please remember all the weary critics out there sweating over their
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>> .
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>> With your help, we will continue to resuscitate the vital art of poetry
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>>  *
>> *  *[image: Aim Your Arrows at the Sun]
>> *
>> CPR editor Ernest Hilbert's new chapbook, Aim Your Arrows at the Sun, is
>> now available from LATR Press in New York.
>>
>> Contact Daniel Lin at daniel at loveamongtheruins.com.
>>
>> For more information about the press, please visit latr.tumblr.com<http://rs6.net/tn.jsp?et=1102866654701&s=2467&e=001MdrIgzN2J9rcpasi5DHH2ltsIPrApkk0AqG8cL4IdebIR-TRtV5gIkqHI8OIbDzFxp1E53f-nbKbbOJCiDH57ZeGUTKaF1cKKl21R_YNKi8=>
>> .
>>
>> Hand-sewn in an edition of 250 copies.
>>
>> From Adam Kirsch's Foreword to Aim Your Arrows at the Sun: "To be
>> haunted, for an American poet today, is a rare and enviable condition. Not
>> by personal demons -- everyone has those, and when poets write about them
>> they are really haunting themselves. To be genuinely haunted, as Ernest
>> Hilbert is in these outward- and backward-looking poems, one must be
>> conscious of the past, and of the chastening contrast between the past and
>> the present; in other words, one must have a sense of history. When Hilbert
>> is visited by the past, in these poems at least, it is by grand and violent
>> phantoms: 'I read on about the lives and deaths of kings,' he writes in a
>> Lowellian phrase in 'April Arsenal.' Like Robert Lowell, Hilbert is drawn to
>> scenes of carnage, where the true face of humanity seems to reveal itself."
>>
>>      "Recycled in  Eternity"
>> Harold Norse (1916 - 2009)
>> By Jack Foley
>>
>> "Norse  was outrageous," said Neeli Cherkovski, recalling his days of
>> cruising San Francisco with gay icon Harold Norse. Norse himself wrote,
>>
>>  a fire in my brain
>>
>>       burns
>>
>> the slag & trash deposits
>>
>>                                     of my century
>>
>> Norse knew many of the famous people of his day -- James Baldwin, to whom
>> he dedicated his memoir, Bastard Angel; Tennessee Williams; Allen
>> Ginsberg; W. H. Auden; William Burroughs; Jack Kerouac; Frank O'Hara; Julian
>> Beck; Ana?s Nin, etc. -- but in 2003 he remarked, "People expect, as I did,
>> the famous writers and poets to be just open and wonderfully giving, and
>> they were not. They all wanted to go to bed with me."
>>
>> [image: Norse]Born out of wedlock on July 6, 1916, Harold Norse was the
>> "bastard angel" product of an affair his Lithuanian immigrant mother had
>> with a man of German or German-Jewish descent. The man soon deserted the
>> family. "My mother," Norse wrote, "must have been too melodramatic for him."
>> "My birth," he discovered later, "was an unmentionable outrage. To my
>> grandmother, a product of czarist Russia, I was no less than the son of the
>> Devil. During her long, tedious life my mother was unable to deal with the
>> shame and the guilt." When his mother married another man, Harold took on
>> the surname of his stepfather, Albaum -- a man he came to hate: "When I
>> learned that he had died of a coronary, I felt a rush of joy. I felt free.
>> Home was the most violent place I knew." In the early 1950s, Harold
>> reinvented both himself and his name by rearranging the family name "Rosen"
>> into "Norse."
>>
>> Harold earned a bachelor's degree in English literature at Brooklyn
>> College in 1938. While there, he edited the college literary magazine and
>> began writing academic poetry. He had a romantic affair with Chester
>> Kallman, who was later to be the companion of W.H. Auden. While attending
>> New York University to gain a masters degree, Harold met William Carlos
>> Williams.
>>
>> Auden and Williams were to become the poles of Norse's early work. "It is
>> all right to enjoy [T.S.] Eliot," Williams told Norse, in 1951, "but
>> remember, he ran away from the thing which you have to realize to come out
>> whole. Watch your step." "I was at a crossroads," Norse wrote of that
>> period. If he ultimately chose Williams over both Auden and the academy, he
>> nonetheless retained a connection to the world both Auden and the academy
>> represented. Even at its freest, Norse's verse could echo the iambic
>> pentameter that Williams hated. Nor was projective verse an option.
>> Fascinated by Charles Olson's "Projective Verse" essay (1950) -- which
>> Williams admired -- Norse, significantly, disliked Olson's piece "for its
>> style."
>>
>> In 1953, Norse moved to Italy where he encountered both a far less
>> puritanical attitude towards homosexuality and the work of the 19th-century
>> poet Giuseppe Gioachino Belli, who wrote in the Roman dialect. Norse's
>> translations of Belli were made, he said, "with a dictionary in one hand and
>> a Roman in the other." Roman Sonnets, with a preface by William Carlos
>> Williams, was published in 1960:
>>
>>  If ya wanna be funny, it's enough to be
>>
>> A gentleman. All the titled and well-heeled,
>>
>> Any customs they have, gotta be nutty,
>>
>> Otherwise they think they're losin' the field.
>>
>> Williams praised Norse's work as an example of "the American idiom" -- "an
>> idiom inaccessible to anyone before the present time" -- but Norse's
>> translations were also deliberate, formal productions: rhyming sonnets.(Click
>> Here to Read the Full Article<http://rs6.net/tn.jsp?et=1102866654701&s=2467&e=001MdrIgzN2J9rCYG8VfPRNCDX61Ha3cl6vHnop42TE17mdgsecoR9hDVoF5nkLCAMM19yXz5GYcrY55JT-9GsbbK3z0DluUJtyVj2-tURYt6gMRPETe4lgDjt-Be4HhWXQ>
>> )
>>    *This Month *  *Annie Finch on the Sonnet<http://webmail.aol.com/29644-412/aol-1/en-us/Suite.aspx#LETTER.BLOCK17>
>> *  *Hannah Brooks-Motl on British and American Poetry<http://webmail.aol.com/29644-412/aol-1/en-us/Suite.aspx#LETTER.BLOCK26>
>> *  *Jack Foley on Harold Norse<http://webmail.aol.com/29644-412/aol-1/en-us/Suite.aspx#LETTER.BLOCK11>
>> *  *Coming up in the CPR<http://webmail.aol.com/29644-412/aol-1/en-us/Suite.aspx#LETTER.BLOCK7>
>> *   Coming up in future issues of the CPR:
>>
>>
>> Dan Brown on Kevin Young
>>
>> Rachel Wetzsteon on Larkin & Happiness
>>
>> Rebecca Porte on Thomas James and New Zealand poet Robin Hyde
>>
>> Marit MacArthur on Robert Frost
>>
>> Anthony Moore on Seamus Heaney
>>
>> David Rothman on Poetry Handbooks
>>
>> Amy Lemmon on the Legacy of Sylvia Plath
>>
>> Carol Bere on Carol Ann Duffy
>>
>> Gregory Dowling on Auden's debt to Byron
>>
>> Katy Evans-Bush on Tone and Archaism in Modern Poetry
>>
>> Adam Dressler on Adam Kirsch
>>
>> Jan Schreiber on Judgment in Poetry Criticism
>>
>> Vic Peterson on John Gery
>>
>>              Forward email<http://ui.constantcontact.com/sa/fwtf.jsp?m=1101694517006&ea=jforjames%40aol.com&a=1102866654701>
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>> This email was sent to jforjames at aol.com by
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From jforjames at aol.com  Fri Dec  4 21:15:12 2009
From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 04 Dec 2009 21:15:12 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: Poem of the Week- Lucia Perillo
In-Reply-To: <20091204171153.7128@web005.roc2.bluetie.com>
References: <20091204171153.7128@web005.roc2.bluetie.com>
Message-ID: <8CC4367E91412E2-2F14-10F2B@webmail-d003.sysops.aol.com>


-----Original Message-----
From: PoemoftheWeek at poemoftheweek.org andrewmcfadyenketchum at poemoftheweek.org




Poem Of The Week   12-04-09  
 
                    
Lucia Perillo

 
Kristin Bock

Jury Selection

My neighbor, drunk, stood on his lawn and yelled,
My neighbor, drunk, stood on his lawn and yelled,
If they could only have put that in the papers, how the winter
     light hangs thickly in those southern Massachusetts  towns,
sucking orange at four p.m. from the last spasm of daylight, then
     glowing morbid and humming
with a sound barely audible-- not human, more like some rasping
     harmonic twanged
from the animated hulk of machinery that somewhere keeps it
     all running: this town
where the fish have been abandoned for over a century, the old
     men left
with just the memory of fish swimming in their bones, telling stories
     about the Azores
from their perch on rusty forty-gallon drums that have come to
     rest on the riprap
that's been brought in to seal the village from the sea.  And what
     it would feel like to be a man
walking around smothering in the fester of all that-- you can
     almost understand why they did it,
raped that woman on the pool table at Big Dan's in the broad
     daylight of Bobby Darin singing for a quarter
                 ...now that mackie's back in town...
                                    and the mown green felt smelling
 of wet wool and-- yes sweet jesus-- even fish, their blood
     stirring with the sea.
You can almost understand why a woman would have needed it.
 
But before it gets too complicated , remember: we're supposed
     to work with only the available labels
to construct questions that will discern shades of meaning, measure
     culpability.  Whether this woman
has a houseful of gray babies in dirty sleepers, which one's father
     has been named,
where it has happened before, who had drunk which kind of 
     liquor and how much.  She says she only went in for a minute
to tug on the silver nozzles of the cigarette machine, but
     the thin curtains that line her bedroom windows
are clearly visible from the street.  The whole town knows.  Even
     some of these young men
carry the blue nickels of her thumbprints on the backs of their
     thighs from this time,
but also the times before.  Who whimpered, which ones came
     in her
and how often, which ones merely watched without speaking 
     from the threshold.
 
The men were of a darker race, refusing to use our language,
     their dark arms braced
in the ancestral motions of urging we just dimly remember, which
     still arouses us, even in our embarrassment, through the
     electric current
of testimony.  Whether a crime has been committed (because the
     woman has her Chesterfields, the change coins clenched &
     sweaty in her palm)
or not, their longboned faces make this offense more palpable--
     the slick skin
and elegant, hard moustaches recalling the  brown eyes of our
     own lives, when out of darkness,
the vestiges of an anger we do not claim to know rise up
     in our bodies
and we seize them and do violence.
 
We all do violence.
 
Because the woman was as dark as any of the others,
with no green card and a name you won't find in the phone book.
What is on trial here is a thousand years of women plodding on
     thick legs, their arms draped with string baskets,
towards some market on another continent, where boats pull into
     the waiting lips of shore
to meet these women and laud the correctness of their sexless
     march with fruit, and cod, and men
come home with the musk of Ecuadorian whores still riding their
     loins.
In the end, the real trial takes place in words exchanged
in pissed-up alleyways between tight stone buildings, in words
that are to us guttural and pronounced with too much tongue.
And on the streets of town, in the late afternoon light,
mothers tear their dresses away from stout provincial breasts,
     and carry placards, and weep,
and spit at no one in particular--
for the love of their sons,
not the love of their daughters. 

 M y  neighbor, drunk, stood on his lawn and yelled,

                                      -from Dangerous Life 

 

Lucia Perillo has published four books of poetry, most recently Luck is Luck (Random House 2005), which was a finalist for the L.A. Times Book Prize and won the Kingsley Tufts prize from Claremont University. A book of her essays, I?ve Heard the Vultures Singing, appeared last year. Her new book of poems, Inseminating the Elephant, was released by Copper Canyon Press in 2009. A former MacArthur fellow, she lives in Olympia, Washington.
 
An Interview with Lucia Perillo 
                                      -by Maria McLeod

                                                 
Lucia Perillo's most recent book, Inseminating the Elephant, continues the MacArthur Fellow's exploration of what it means to be present in everyday life-to have an active mind and an imperfect body in the manufactured and natural worlds. There's comedy, irony, wit, and philosophy throughout, familiar traits to readers of Perillo's previous five books. But what separates Inseminating the Elephant from its predecessors is Perillo's thoughtful examination of her life before poetry. In the ?70s and ?80s, the fledgling poet was also a farmer, park ranger, and wildlife manager in locales across the United States. It was an active life full of the beauty and horror of the natural world, and it is a physical life that has since been restricted by the effects of multiple sclerosis. Despite such a debilitating illness, this conversation with Maria McLeod shows that the mental life of the naturalist continues unabated.
***
Maria McLeod: Lucia, your background and early training doesn't include writing. I wonder, as someone who has taken a more nontraditional route, how did you enter the field? 

Lucia Perrillo: In 1980, I had just gotten a job at the Denver Wildlife Research Center. I believe that place is closed now, but it was an animal damage control facility, meaning that it researched ways to kill animals to keep them from destroying livestock or agricultural crops.

We killed coyotes; we killed birds. I killed lots of things. So I graduated with this degree in wildlife biology to go off and study wildlife, and I end up killing wildlife. So it was really a weird time, a troubling year in my life. 

But how I got into writing was this way: I was a single woman living in this strange city, and I didn't have any friends. I didn't want to go to a bar alone, but I discovered that I could go to plays alone, and it wasn't weird, or I could go to poetry readings alone. So, it was just a way to have places to go at night that would be safe. And that's how I came to poetry, too, by going to open mics, and just kind of stumbling into them, because it was something you could do.

Also, when I lived in Denver, I saw Gregory Corso and Allen Ginsberg read in Boulder. Ginsberg played with the band, and Gregory Corso's wife was drunk and got bounced from the bar. The whole thing was very surreal. I remember that Gregory Corso's wife stood up on a chair and then started screaming, "Where's mah man?  Where's mah man?" [laughter] And I remember that he said something about her. "My wife just got bounced!"

Then people started dancing when Allen Ginsberg sang a song whose refrain went: "Don't smoke cigarettes."  There was a woman who had a diaphanous gown on with no underwear, and this man was dragging her across the floor by her arms or her legs. Her gown went riding up, and the man dragged this naked woman across the dance floor. 

MM: When you left Denver, what did you do after that?

LP: I went to California in 1981. I got a job at the San Francisco Bay Wildlife Refuge. The exact spot-if you're familiar with the movie Harold and Maude-Maude gets into it with a cop. The background is right where they built the headquarters of the building where I worked. I was a naturalist. I did a variety of things, but I led a lot of nature walks around southern San Francisco Bay. It was a mosaic of salt ponds, where salt was made by evaporating salt water. Mostly it was used by birds, migratory birds. 

Again, I didn't know very many people. I lived in Palo Alto, and I was writing a lot, and one day I pedaled my bike over to this writing workshop at the local community college. I saw this man give a talk, and I don't even remember what the talk was about, but he had a captivating presence. I learned that he was giving a class at San Jose State, a night class, a poetry-writing workshop. That was Bob Hass. So I went and enrolled in his workshop.

MM: When I read Dangerous Life [Perillo's first book, published in 1989] again in preparation for this interview, I looked for repeated themes. In the end, I decided it was a book about victimization, about calling attention to the victimizers and the victim. What was that book about for you?

LP: I don't know why I was so interested in victimization, or I felt that I had been victimized as a woman. Certainly I was a person of privilege. I've never been a victim of a violent crime. I've never been raped, never had an abortion. I mean, I've lived sort of in a bubble. Maybe I felt like I had to create that myth for myself, or these violent events, because I hadn't had one. I felt that you had to have that kind of transgression against yourself to really be a significant person. We were all writing autobiographically, in the manner of Sharon Olds. I was very influenced by The Dead and the Living and Satan Says. So that is the kind of poem I wanted to write, the autobiographical poem of the outstanding personal event, you know, the traumatic personal event.

MM: But you grew up during the Kennedy assassinations and that of Martin Luther King Jr. Also, you came of age during the Vietnam era, so certainly violence was part of your life. It was part of the landscape. Could we say that?

LP: Sure. And I think "oppression of women" sounds like a catchphrase, but that was part of the landscape as well. I think young women now don't realize how it was. During my early job life, I was subject to a lot of discrimination and humiliation from my bosses. It was really pretty awful trying to go into a field that was predominantly male. How discouraging it was, people don't realize.

But I will say that I became less interested in women's issues when my identity as a woman was subsumed by my identity as a person who was sick. It was in ?88 that I was diagnosed with MS [multiple sclerosis]. Then that identity overtook these earlier concerns because they paled. My earlier feminist concerns, my feelings of discrimination, were small potatoes compared to what I was up against subsequent to that. I acquired a new identity. Now, you know, I don't even feel like a woman anymore. I don't feel that's my primary identity. It stopped being my concern. I felt that: Oh, I'm this other thing now.

MM: So in 1988, was Dangerous Life completed as a manuscript at the time you were diagnosed?

LP: It was already complete, and it was already in [with the publisher].  The funny thing is that it has an epigraph from Nietzsche at the beginning of the book, "I sometimes think that I lead a highly dangerous life since I'm one of those machines that can burst apart!" But when the book came out, Tess Gallagher pointed it out to me. She said, "Oh, you've got this epigraph. Were you already diagnosed with MS?" But no, the book was already created before that. So it was a little prophecy from Nietzsche. 

MM: So how did that book, winning those awards [the Samuel Morse Prize, a Pushcart Prize, and the Norma Farber First Book Award], and then your diagnosis of MS affect your career? 

LP: I hadn't published the book when I got the job at Saint Martin's College. I was working at Mount Rainier. I had packed my truck from Syracuse. I was enrolled as a PhD student, technically, and I said, OK, if I get a job in Washington, I'll stay there, and I'll drop out of the PhD program. If I don't get a job, I'll go back and become a PhD person of some sort. So I did happen to get a job in Olympia, Washington. In '87, I got this very low-paying job at Saint Martin's, a Catholic college that was affiliated with a monastery.

It was half-time, half of $18,000-$9,000-which was slightly more than what I was making as a grad student. I was glad to have a half-time job. I was determined not to fall into the trap of being a writer and then having to go get a full-time job. I wouldn't have kids. I wouldn't have financial burdens. I'd keep my expenses low. I wouldn't have a car if I didn't have to. I could work part-time and keep working on my writing. So I took the half-time job at Saint Martin's. It ended up being really complicated and a kind of horrible job. It absorbed more than half-time, of course, because they always abuse half-time employees. My plan was to also supplement my income by working weekends as a ranger at Mount Rainier in the winter. So I would do those two things, work half-time and be a ranger on the weekends, with skiers and snow-play people up on the mountain. But then I started feeling weird. I had the inkling from my previous sickness-a time when I had mysterious neurological symptoms just after college-that it might be MS. And indeed it was.

When the results came back, I decided I'd better teach. I wasn't going to be able to be a ranger on the weekends, so I had to reevaluate my plans. Then, after doing the job for about two years, the book was published. 

MM: You mentioned how little you were paid to teach at that time. Related to that, I recall your essay "Fear of the Market," in which you write about commodity and exchange, about poetry's worth and how we estimate value in this culture. Now, what is your relationship to writing and worth?

LP: Well, the nice thing about the creative writing system is that once you get that tenure-track academic job, and that income, those questions become sort of moot, because you know you're stable, so you don't have to think about money. You can really focus on your poem apart from money and prestige.

MM: And what's your take on the larger, cultural attitude toward poetry? 

LP: Well, it's something like being interested in dollhouse miniatures. It's a subculture, and there are people interested in poetry, but it's not very visible on the national scene. Probably dollhouse miniatures, those interested, are a bigger subculture than poetry is. But making a good dollhouse miniature is probably really difficult. Or, you know, putting a ship in a bottle. Not many people want to do that anymore. Poetry is like that. But yet we have our society and our superstars. So it's small, but the subculture is highly organized.

MM: In the sense of the superstars in the spectrum of poetry, where are you on the spectrum?

LP: Well, see, that's the thing! I'm Lucia Perillo. Disabled. Housebound to some extent. I go shopping in my wheelchair at the food co-op up on the corner. I don't often give readings because I can't travel without assistance, and my husband's not able to get away often. I'm just a person in bare feet and dirty pajamas most of the day. So I don't feel like a superstar, even though W.H. Auden couldn't wear shoes either; he had problems with his feet and went around in slippers. 

MM: It seems in Auden's lifetime, he may have been able to have more anonymity while in the world. Do you think there's a different expectation for poets and marketing oneself in this era? 

LP: Poets are expected to have a visible presence.

MM: Do you have a visible presence?

LP: No, I'd like to. Through technology I could be more visible than I am. I have done some virtual readings, which is nice because the university doesn't have to pay for the plane ticket or for the hotel, so it's much cheaper. It's easier for me, and it's cheaper for them, and all I have to do is be on a two-way camera system. People can still ask questions and make requests for poems. They can interact through that technology.

MM: You title your second book The Body Mutinies, and you include that title poem in the book, which re-creates the scene of you being informed of your diagnosis. And then there is "Retablo with Multiple Sclerosis and Saints."  It seems like you come out as someone with MS in this book; would you say that?

LP: Yeah, I did.

MM: Tell me about that choice, fears around that, or your intellectual concerns.

LP: Well, it became my new subject matter. In the first book, I wanted to have this myth as the female outlaw or the female victim; then in the second book I suddenly had this new identity as an afflicted person.

MM: Did you worry about how you were going to be-I don't know if the term "typecast" is correct-but did you worry about that at all, in terms of people's perception of your work?

LP: I wanted the poems to be able to be read two ways. You could read them not knowing that I was a person who had an illness, or you could read them with that knowledge and have another reading of the poem. So I wanted them to foster two readings. Two layers. Where you could step into the poem on whatever layer you wanted to step into it on.

MM: After you won the MacArthur Fellowship in 2000 and you were deemed a poetic "genius," what happened to your own relationship to writing poetry and to your own expectations? 

LP: Well, it's very difficult, because you feel like you have to write a great poem. I can't just write my little drafts that don't really make sense. I usually start with little scribbles on paper and when I reread them, they're pretty stupid. It kind of shuts you down. For me, it was difficult to deal with it psychologically.

MM: And how did you overcome that? Or have you overcome it?

LP: It's just time, I think. The period of the MacArthur is over, so now I can go back to who I am. I'm not sure that I wrote anything of much good-I wrote my book Luck Is Luck during the MacArthur period. I like some of the poems in that book, so that was all right, but it was tough.

MM: I wonder, unrelated to the MacArthur, what is your relationship to your writing? When you talk about your books, you say, "I like some of the poems in that book," but you never seem entirely satisfied. What is your own relationship to your work?

LP: I think my success as a writer comes from the fact that I don't think that anything I write is much good-and so I'm always trying to make it better. 

But the downside of that, the negative, is something that William Stafford talks about. That is that writer's block comes from when you set too high standards for yourself, and you don't live up to your own standards. So his advice for writer's block is just to lower your standards, which makes a lot of sense. You can start there, at least. You can always fix things up as you go along. But you have this idea of the poem that you want to write, and it's just like glittering crystal in your mind. Then you go and you write it out, and it doesn't live up to the crystal. So it fills you with a feeling of dejection and being a loser because you never live up to that first vision that you had.

MM: Do you feel like you've ever achieved the glittering crystal with any of your poems?

LP: I liked that poem "Foley" when I wrote it, very much. But I think I stole it from a poem by Ken Koch called "One Train May Hide Another."  But now when I go back and look at "Foley," I think it's sort of a gimmicky standup routine.

MM: Your book of essays, I've Heard the Vultures Singing: Field Notes on Poetry, Illness, and Nature, was published by Trinity University Press in 2007. It seems that your work as a researcher is especially evident in that book. In fact, you mention conducting research in the essay "Knowledge Game: Gulls." You call a person from Audubon and you ask what kind of gulls you are seeing. But you also really study them, read about them. Can you tell me what brought this book of essays about for you?

LP: A friend of mine, a nonfiction writer and journalist, said, "Well, you should write about your life," prose about my life. So I wrote some prose about my life. There was not too much to say about having a terrible disease. I hadn't really figured out what I would say about it except it sucks, you know. But that's not a very profound statement. So I decided that I would write about the kind of interactions you can still have with nature as a disabled person. It's hard because you don't have the ability to go on unpaved terrain anymore. I lost that thing that I really loved, and what could I still do? It was a way of making little projects for myself. I had to write the essays, so I had to go look at the gull so I could write the essay.

MM: I think a remarkable essay is "Sick Fuck," which was also published in Tin House, where you talk about being a disabled person, a person with MS, and still being a sexual person. Why did you write that essay?

LP: God only knows! I thought maybe people would want to read it. And I hadn't seen anything like it. I certainly haven't pursued the literature about disability, and there is a body of literature out there.

MM: A body of literature on disability and sexuality, or just disability?

LP: Disability studies is a whole academic area. This is one thing that's a little troubling to me, now that I have this identity as a disabled person, disability has kind of become one of the new "in"-what is it?-minority groups. We're kind of "in," we're en vogue now. 
I feel like Clarence Thomas because I wonder-and I have a lot of mixed feelings attached to this-but I've always suspected that the fact that I was disabled played into my winning the MacArthur. I feel almost certain of that. I mean, surely not many other kind of mid-level poets are going to get pulled out of the ether to win the MacArthur. But if you're a disabled mid-level poet, you know, it increases your chances. What does Clarence Thomas claim? That when you're black, you never really know what you've earned by your efforts and when you're being given the affirmative action little nudge, you know, additional benefit of the doubt.

I have been in the past invited to participate on panels at AWP [the annual Association of Writers and Writing Programs conference], but never as a poet for my poetry. People always want me to be on these panels on disability, like that's what they're keying into about me.

MM: You're getting typecast.

LP: Yeah, I feel that way. It's hard to avoid being typecast, especially when you're in a wheelchair, and you have this very visible marker to see beyond.

MM: And you write about it some.

LP: Yeah, about how people can't really see beyond the chair. So I don't know what to do about that except hibernate in my home and not think about it. I write about how, for me, it's been really important to stay in my head, stay as a subjective person, and not try to go into the objective world of the world looking back. I want to just stay here.



Praise for the poetry of Lucia Perillo
 
"I have two words for anyone who wants to know why people turn to poetry in times of need: Lucia Perillo. She's the funniest poet writing today, which is saying a lot, since she's also the poet most concerned with the treachery practiced on us daily by our best friends and worst enemies, our bodies. . . . [Luck Is Luck offers] one exquisitely wrought poem after another." 
-- David Kirby, The New York Times Book Review

?Luck Is Luck contains Lucia Perillo?s most adventurous poems on subjects as various as original sin and life with an oversize nose. It is a delight to wander with her into strange imaginative territories. Always, I read her poems with surprise and (write it!) jealousy.? 
?Billy Collins

?Lucia Perillo?s poems are dazzling tragicomedies of everyday life, buoyant with wit, feeling, and delight in language. She can make a 1950s housecoat seem as exotic as a farthingale, and a rain-soaked paperback swell till it contains the world. It?s hard to imagine the reader who can resist the playful energies and serious charm of Luck Is Luck.? 
?Katha Pollitt

?The energy, decisiveness, and humane wisdom of Lucia Perillo?s work are tonic. She is an exhilarating poet.? 
?Jonathan Galassi

?Breathtaking and bold in its range of reference and feeling . . . full of energy yet with an eye for the holy and serene.?
?Lorrie Moore

?Engaging and elegant . . . [Perillo?s] ironies are carefully honed. . . . [Her] directness is distinctly refreshing.?
?Los Angeles Times (The Best Poetry of 1999)

?[Perillo] is a genuinely expert teller of anecdotes, with a slightly dizzying ability to weave narrative and self-expression, and wonderful powers of description.?
?Chicago Tribune

?No subject, it seems is too mundane or too exotic for Perillo?s engaging poems.?
?The New Yorker

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From obodooha at gmail.com  Sat Dec  5 00:38:42 2009
From: obodooha at gmail.com (Obododimma Oha)
Date: Fri, 4 Dec 2009 21:38:42 -0800
Subject: [New-Poetry] On the Sickbed of National Falsehoods
Message-ID: <a24092720912042138m521bbc28g64a86549cfb83cd0@mail.gmail.com>

"Tell me which is better: a sick president or a sick nation?

Which dies first: a sick president or a sick nation?

That big sepulcher called the State House is Frankensteined for widowhood.
Sometimes when I look at its dome, I see a thousand burials cast their
votes."

Read full article at:
http://x-pensiverrors.blogspot.com/2009/12/on-sickbed-of-national-falsehoods.html

<http://x-pensiverrors.blogspot.com/2009/12/on-sickbed-of-national-falsehoods.html>


Obododimma Oha
http://udude.wordpress.com/

Dept. of English
University of Ibadan
Nigeria

&

Fellow, Centre for Peace & Conflict Studies
University of Ibadan

Phone: +234 803 333 1330;
           +234 805 350 6604;
           +234 808 264 8060.
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From grahamd at ripon.edu  Sat Dec  5 12:52:41 2009
From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham)
Date: Sat, 5 Dec 2009 11:52:41 -0600
Subject: [New-Poetry] Barry Spacks on Writer's Almanac
Message-ID: <0A16451F-252F-4C93-8D2E-DA45364BD7DB@ripon.edu>

today:

http://writersalmanac.publicradio.org/


========================================
David Graham
grahamd at ripon.edu

Home Page:
http://web.me.com/drjazz

Poetry Library:
http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html
==========================================




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From anny.ballardini at gmail.com  Sat Dec  5 13:22:46 2009
From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Sat, 5 Dec 2009 19:22:46 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] Barry Spacks on Writer's Almanac
In-Reply-To: <0A16451F-252F-4C93-8D2E-DA45364BD7DB@ripon.edu>
References: <0A16451F-252F-4C93-8D2E-DA45364BD7DB@ripon.edu>
Message-ID: <4b65c2d70912051022w1aeaada8n27b3d0e45c86123@mail.gmail.com>

And a Beautiful Poem it is!
Congratulations!

Anny

On Sat, Dec 5, 2009 at 6:52 PM, David Graham <grahamd at ripon.edu> wrote:

> today:
>
> http://writersalmanac.publicradio.org/
>
>
> ========================================
> David Graham
> grahamd at ripon.edu
>
> Home Page:
> http://web.me.com/drjazz
>
> Poetry Library:
> http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html
> ==========================================
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
>


-- 
Anny Ballardini
http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078
http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html
I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing
star!
Friedrich Nietzsche

? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique
vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ?
Giovenale
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From anny.ballardini at gmail.com  Sun Dec  6 13:38:24 2009
From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Sun, 6 Dec 2009 19:38:24 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] =?windows-1252?q?Fwd=3A_Poets=3A_Really=2C_they=92r?=
	=?windows-1252?q?e_the_laziest=2C_stupidest_people_I_know=2E?=
In-Reply-To: <752016.62968.qm@web110315.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
References: <752016.62968.qm@web110315.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4b65c2d70912061038h59499653v263fbfdb538dcbb1@mail.gmail.com>

The following words are from Christian B?k, responding during a Q&A session
 at Kelly Writers House, UPenn, November 18, 2009:

http://www.poetryfoundation.org/harriet/2009/12/poets-really-theyre-the-laziest-stupidest-people-i-know/


UbuWeb
http://ubu.com





-- 
Anny Ballardini
http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078
http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html
I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing
star!
Friedrich Nietzsche

? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique
vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ?
Giovenale
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From jbalizsprince at googlemail.com  Sun Dec  6 02:01:34 2009
From: jbalizsprince at googlemail.com (Judy Prince)
Date: Sun, 6 Dec 2009 02:01:34 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Barry Spacks on Writer's Almanac
In-Reply-To: <0A16451F-252F-4C93-8D2E-DA45364BD7DB@ripon.edu>
References: <0A16451F-252F-4C93-8D2E-DA45364BD7DB@ripon.edu>
Message-ID: <7db1d01b0912052301k73aae170gca60b63fdf386495@mail.gmail.com>

A nice 'un, Barry---a lovely gentle stunner.

Best,

Judy

2009/12/5 David Graham <grahamd at ripon.edu>

> today:
>
> http://writersalmanac.publicradio.org/
>
>
> ========================================
> David Graham
> grahamd at ripon.edu
>
> Home Page:
> http://web.me.com/drjazz
>
> Poetry Library:
> http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html
> ==========================================
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
>
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From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net  Sat Dec  5 20:06:40 2009
From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman)
Date: Sat, 05 Dec 2009 20:06:40 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Barry Spacks on Writer's Almanac
In-Reply-To: <0A16451F-252F-4C93-8D2E-DA45364BD7DB@ripon.edu>
References: <0A16451F-252F-4C93-8D2E-DA45364BD7DB@ripon.edu>
Message-ID: <4B1B03A0.7020405@nut-n-but.net>

Nice poem . . . BUT (if I'm allowed to say), I've liked a lot of 
SPAXworks better.

--Bob



From chris at chrislott.org  Mon Dec  7 00:46:26 2009
From: chris at chrislott.org (Chris Lott)
Date: Sun, 6 Dec 2009 20:46:26 -0900
Subject: =?windows-1252?Q?Re=3A_=5BNew=2DPoetry=5D_Fwd=3A_Poets=3A_Really=2C_they=92re_the_l?=
	=?windows-1252?Q?aziest=2C_stupidest_people_I_know=2E?=
In-Reply-To: <4b65c2d70912061038h59499653v263fbfdb538dcbb1@mail.gmail.com>
References: <752016.62968.qm@web110315.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
	<4b65c2d70912061038h59499653v263fbfdb538dcbb1@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <b06d3f670912062146j46adcc22k917e6868a50acea0@mail.gmail.com>

Guess I'm too dumb to see the profundity in B?k's comments, which are
essentially repeated regularly by people about all kinds of artistic
pursuits, though admittedly more so about writing.

c

On Sun, Dec 6, 2009 at 9:38 AM, Anny Ballardini
<anny.ballardini at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> The following words are from Christian B?k, responding during a Q&A session
> ?at Kelly Writers House, UPenn, November 18, 2009:
>
> http://www.poetryfoundation.org/harriet/2009/12/poets-really-theyre-the-laziest-stupidest-people-i-know/
>
>
> UbuWeb
> http://ubu.com
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> Anny Ballardini
> http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
> http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
> http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078
> http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html
> I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing
> star!
> Friedrich Nietzsche
>
> ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique
> vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ?
> Giovenale
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
>



From anny.ballardini at gmail.com  Mon Dec  7 04:37:23 2009
From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Mon, 7 Dec 2009 10:37:23 +0100
Subject: =?windows-1252?Q?Re=3A_=5BNew=2DPoetry=5D_Fwd=3A_Poets=3A_Really=2C_they=92re_the_l?=
	=?windows-1252?Q?aziest=2C_stupidest_people_I_know=2E?=
In-Reply-To: <b06d3f670912062146j46adcc22k917e6868a50acea0@mail.gmail.com>
References: <752016.62968.qm@web110315.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
	<4b65c2d70912061038h59499653v263fbfdb538dcbb1@mail.gmail.com>
	<b06d3f670912062146j46adcc22k917e6868a50acea0@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4b65c2d70912070137u529c8100xe791c5cd703d2364@mail.gmail.com>

The comments that followed are interesting. Bok, whom I had the good fortune
to meet, is a refined intellectual. The fact that he reads monosyllables in
strange ways could lead people think that he cannot write, which is not
true.
And yes, Chris, it is easier to find flaws than stable points on which to
build, unless you are a Neo-Platonic, as Kent Johnson says.

On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 6:46 AM, Chris Lott <chris at chrislott.org> wrote:

> Guess I'm too dumb to see the profundity in B?k's comments, which are
> essentially repeated regularly by people about all kinds of artistic
> pursuits, though admittedly more so about writing.
>
> c
>
> On Sun, Dec 6, 2009 at 9:38 AM, Anny Ballardini
> <anny.ballardini at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > The following words are from Christian B?k, responding during a Q&A
> session
> >  at Kelly Writers House, UPenn, November 18, 2009:
> >
> >
> http://www.poetryfoundation.org/harriet/2009/12/poets-really-theyre-the-laziest-stupidest-people-i-know/
> >
> >
> > UbuWeb
> > http://ubu.com
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Anny Ballardini
> > http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
> > http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
> > http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078
> > http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html
> > I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing
> > star!
> > Friedrich Nietzsche
> >
> > ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique
> > vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ?
> > Giovenale
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > New-Poetry mailing list
> > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
> >
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>



-- 
Anny Ballardini
http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078
http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html
I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing
star!
Friedrich Nietzsche

? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique
vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ?
Giovenale
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From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net  Mon Dec  7 07:38:42 2009
From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman)
Date: Mon, 07 Dec 2009 07:38:42 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: Poets: Really, =?windows-1252?Q?they=92re_?=
	=?windows-1252?Q?the_l=3D=3Fwindows-1252=3FQ=3Faziest=3D2C=5Fstupides_?=
	=?windows-1252?Q?t=5Fpeople=5FI=5Fknow=3D2E=3F=3D?=
In-Reply-To: <b06d3f670912062146j46adcc22k917e6868a50acea0@mail.gmail.com>
References: <752016.62968.qm@web110315.mail.gq1.yahoo.com><4b65c2d70912061038h59499653v263fbfdb538dcbb1@mail.gmail.com>
	<b06d3f670912062146j46adcc22k917e6868a50acea0@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4B1CF752.20707@nut-n-but.net>

Chris Lott wrote:
> Guess I'm too dumb to see the profundity in B?k's comments, which are
> essentially repeated regularly by people about all kinds of artistic
> pursuits, though admittedly more so about writing.
>
> c
>   
I don't find his statement profound, but essentially unarguable.  If I 
have him right, he's just saying a poet ought to have a procedure in 
mind and follow it in composing poems: know what he's doing.  He 
suggests that most poets don't. 

I would say that most poets have and follow a procedure, but that it's 
unconscious, which is okay with me, although I believe, with Bok, that 
it's far better to have a conscious one, because conscious knowledge is 
easier to use effectively, and is the only communicable knowledge.  I 
think what Bok says is incomplete, though, and I suspect he would agree: 
he leaves out the fact that you should not know (if you could) 
everything your poem will do in advance.  You should use your procedure, 
but surprise yourself with what results.

--Bob



From halvard at gmail.com  Mon Dec  7 10:16:31 2009
From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson)
Date: Mon, 7 Dec 2009 09:16:31 -0600
Subject: =?windows-1252?B?UmU6IFtOZXctUG9ldHJ5XSBGd2Q6IFBvZXRzOiBSZWFsbHksIHRoZXmScmUgdGhlIGw=?=
	=?windows-1252?B?PT93aW5kb3dzLTEyNTI/UT9hemllc3Q9MkNfc3R1cGlkZXMgdF9wZW9wbGVfSV9rbm93PTJFPz0=?=
In-Reply-To: <4B1CF752.20707@nut-n-but.net>
References: <752016.62968.qm@web110315.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
	<4b65c2d70912061038h59499653v263fbfdb538dcbb1@mail.gmail.com>
	<b06d3f670912062146j46adcc22k917e6868a50acea0@mail.gmail.com>
	<4B1CF752.20707@nut-n-but.net>
Message-ID: <f160a1210912070716r7a6959f0u3b5e4c85c0f3b43@mail.gmail.com>

Now there's a "fact" for you--that "you should not know . . .  everything
your
poem will do in advance."

Hal

"We don't serve fine wine in half-pints, buddy."
                  --Robert Ashley

Halvard Johnson
================
halvard at gmail.com
http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home
http://entropyandme.blogspot.com
http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com
http://www.hamiltonstone.org


On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 6:38 AM, Bob Grumman <bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net>wrote:

  I think what Bok says is incomplete, though, and I suspect he would agree:
> he leaves out the fact that you should not know (if you could) everything
> your poem will do in advance.  You should use your procedure, but surprise
> yourself with what results.
>
> --Bob
>
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From chris at chrislott.org  Mon Dec  7 11:25:22 2009
From: chris at chrislott.org (Chris Lott)
Date: Mon, 7 Dec 2009 07:25:22 -0900
Subject: =?windows-1252?B?UmU6IFtOZXctUG9ldHJ5XSBGd2Q6IFBvZXRzOiBSZWFsbHksIHRoZXmScmUgdGhlIGw=?=
	=?windows-1252?B?PT93aW5kb3dzLTEyNTI/UT9hemllc3Q9MkNfc3R1cGlkZXMgdF9wZW9wbGVfSV9rbm93PTJFPz0=?=
In-Reply-To: <4B1CF752.20707@nut-n-but.net>
References: <752016.62968.qm@web110315.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
	<4b65c2d70912061038h59499653v263fbfdb538dcbb1@mail.gmail.com>
	<b06d3f670912062146j46adcc22k917e6868a50acea0@mail.gmail.com>
	<4B1CF752.20707@nut-n-but.net>
Message-ID: <b06d3f670912070825w66410930lffaa2b42ab58ca33@mail.gmail.com>

That was my point: B?k basically says what has been said a million
times before: art (in this case poetry) isn't solely an intuitive
activity. It takes work, practice, skill-building even if many people
think they can do it because they already write words (or doodle or
hum tunes).

The comment-thread on the post just reminded me that many people who
post to Harriet discussions appear to want to flee from actually
talking about poetry as quickly as possible.

Then again, I find B?k largely unreadable, a perfect example (from
what I've seen, which is limited I'll admit) of the post-avant
Emperor's new clothes.

c

On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 3:38 AM, Bob Grumman <bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net> wrote:
> Chris Lott wrote:
>>
>> Guess I'm too dumb to see the profundity in B?k's comments, which are
>> essentially repeated regularly by people about all kinds of artistic
>> pursuits, though admittedly more so about writing.
>>
>> c
>>
>
> I don't find his statement profound, but essentially unarguable. ?If I have
> him right, he's just saying a poet ought to have a procedure in mind and
> follow it in composing poems: know what he's doing. ?He suggests that most
> poets don't.
> I would say that most poets have and follow a procedure, but that it's
> unconscious, which is okay with me, although I believe, with Bok, that it's
> far better to have a conscious one, because conscious knowledge is easier to
> use effectively, and is the only communicable knowledge. ?I think what Bok
> says is incomplete, though, and I suspect he would agree: he leaves out the
> fact that you should not know (if you could) everything your poem will do in
> advance. ?You should use your procedure, but surprise yourself with what
> results.
>
> --Bob
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>



From jforjames at aol.com  Mon Dec  7 11:47:40 2009
From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 07 Dec 2009 11:47:40 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] WorldPo: Best Canadian Poetry annual
Message-ID: <8CC45741F874F1E-D34-2ABFD@webmail-m012.sysops.aol.com>


http://network.nationalpost.com/np/blogs/afterword/archive/2009/12/07/a-f-moritz-talks-about-the-year-s-best-canadian-poetry.aspx
The Afterword recently caught up with Mortiz to chat about this year's edition.

The Afterword: How did you become editor of this year's Best Canadian Poetry in English? Why did you agree to do it?

Moritz: I was offered the editorship by Molly Peacock, the general editor of the series, and by Halli Villegas, the founder of Tightrope Books, which created and publishes the series. I knew it would be a difficult job, because of its scope and my already full schedule. But I was eager for the chance to select Canadian poems so as to show our current poetry in a very attractive light to anyone who enjoys reading. I was confident I could do this, because I knew in a general way the wealth of excellent poems and poets available in Canadian magazines...magazines that are lively yet serious, a "good read" as the saying is, but are seen by too few.


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From opus40-01 at opus40.org  Mon Dec  7 12:10:07 2009
From: opus40-01 at opus40.org (opus40-01 at opus40.org)
Date: Mon, 7 Dec 2009 12:10:07 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: Poets: Really,
	theyre the l=?windows-1252?Q?aziest=2C_stupides t_people_I_know=2E?=
Message-ID: <380-22009121717107435@M2W131.mail2web.com>

I was going to respond to this, but I'm too lazy.

Original Message:
-----------------
From: Chris Lott chris at chrislott.org
Date: Mon, 7 Dec 2009 07:25:22 -0900
To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Fwd: Poets: Really, they?re the
l=?windows-1252?Q?aziest=2C_stupides t_people_I_know=2E?=


That was my point: B?k basically says what has been said a million
times before: art (in this case poetry) isn't solely an intuitive
activity. It takes work, practice, skill-building even if many people
think they can do it because they already write words (or doodle or
hum tunes).

The comment-thread on the post just reminded me that many people who
post to Harriet discussions appear to want to flee from actually
talking about poetry as quickly as possible.

Then again, I find B?k largely unreadable, a perfect example (from
what I've seen, which is limited I'll admit) of the post-avant
Emperor's new clothes.

c

On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 3:38 AM, Bob Grumman <bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net>
wrote:
> Chris Lott wrote:
>>
>> Guess I'm too dumb to see the profundity in B?k's comments, which are
>> essentially repeated regularly by people about all kinds of artistic
>> pursuits, though admittedly more so about writing.
>>
>> c
>>
>
> I don't find his statement profound, but essentially unarguable. ?If I
have
> him right, he's just saying a poet ought to have a procedure in mind and
> follow it in composing poems: know what he's doing. ?He suggests that most
> poets don't.
> I would say that most poets have and follow a procedure, but that it's
> unconscious, which is okay with me, although I believe, with Bok, that
it's
> far better to have a conscious one, because conscious knowledge is easier
to
> use effectively, and is the only communicable knowledge. ?I think what Bok
> says is incomplete, though, and I suspect he would agree: he leaves out
the
> fact that you should not know (if you could) everything your poem will do
in
> advance. ?You should use your procedure, but surprise yourself with what
> results.
>
> --Bob
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>

_______________________________________________
New-Poetry mailing list
New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry

--------------------------------------------------------------------
myhosting.com - Premium Microsoft? Windows? and Linux web and application
hosting - http://link.myhosting.com/myhosting





From chris at chrislott.org  Mon Dec  7 12:19:00 2009
From: chris at chrislott.org (Chris Lott)
Date: Mon, 7 Dec 2009 08:19:00 -0900
Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: Poets: Really, theyre the laziest, stupides t 
	people I know.
In-Reply-To: <380-22009121717107435@M2W131.mail2web.com>
References: <380-22009121717107435@M2W131.mail2web.com>
Message-ID: <b06d3f670912070919k4514cf82l1647ff8e42d81fd6@mail.gmail.com>

No need. I'm sure I'm completely wrong anyway.

c

On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 8:10 AM, opus40-01 at opus40.org
<opus40-01 at opus40.org> wrote:
> I was going to respond to this, but I'm too lazy.
>
> Original Message:
> -----------------
> From: Chris Lott chris at chrislott.org
> Date: Mon, 7 Dec 2009 07:25:22 -0900
> To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Fwd: Poets: Really, they?re the
> l=?windows-1252?Q?aziest=2C_stupides t_people_I_know=2E?=
>
>
> That was my point: B?k basically says what has been said a million
> times before: art (in this case poetry) isn't solely an intuitive
> activity. It takes work, practice, skill-building even if many people
> think they can do it because they already write words (or doodle or
> hum tunes).
>
> The comment-thread on the post just reminded me that many people who
> post to Harriet discussions appear to want to flee from actually
> talking about poetry as quickly as possible.
>
> Then again, I find B?k largely unreadable, a perfect example (from
> what I've seen, which is limited I'll admit) of the post-avant
> Emperor's new clothes.
>
> c
>
> On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 3:38 AM, Bob Grumman <bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net>
> wrote:
>> Chris Lott wrote:
>>>
>>> Guess I'm too dumb to see the profundity in B?k's comments, which are
>>> essentially repeated regularly by people about all kinds of artistic
>>> pursuits, though admittedly more so about writing.
>>>
>>> c
>>>
>>
>> I don't find his statement profound, but essentially unarguable. ?If I
> have
>> him right, he's just saying a poet ought to have a procedure in mind and
>> follow it in composing poems: know what he's doing. ?He suggests that most
>> poets don't.
>> I would say that most poets have and follow a procedure, but that it's
>> unconscious, which is okay with me, although I believe, with Bok, that
> it's
>> far better to have a conscious one, because conscious knowledge is easier
> to
>> use effectively, and is the only communicable knowledge. ?I think what Bok
>> says is incomplete, though, and I suspect he would agree: he leaves out
> the
>> fact that you should not know (if you could) everything your poem will do
> in
>> advance. ?You should use your procedure, but surprise yourself with what
>> results.
>>
>> --Bob
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> New-Poetry mailing list
>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
> myhosting.com - Premium Microsoft? Windows? and Linux web and application
> hosting - http://link.myhosting.com/myhosting
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>



From jbalizsprince at googlemail.com  Mon Dec  7 12:19:16 2009
From: jbalizsprince at googlemail.com (Judy Prince)
Date: Mon, 7 Dec 2009 12:19:16 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: Poets: Really, theyre the laziest, stupides t 
	people I know.
In-Reply-To: <380-22009121717107435@M2W131.mail2web.com>
References: <380-22009121717107435@M2W131.mail2web.com>
Message-ID: <7db1d01b0912070919q55fc5bdaxe9331d523917e2d@mail.gmail.com>

'n' me 2, opus40-01; a nother lazy lunk.


2009/12/7 opus40-01 at opus40.org <opus40-01 at opus40.org>

> I was going to respond to this, but I'm too lazy.
>
> Original Message:
> -----------------
> From: Chris Lott chris at chrislott.org
> Date: Mon, 7 Dec 2009 07:25:22 -0900
> To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Fwd: Poets: Really, they?re the
> l=?windows-1252?Q?aziest=2C_stupides t_people_I_know=2E?=
>
>
> That was my point: B?k basically says what has been said a million
> times before: art (in this case poetry) isn't solely an intuitive
> activity. It takes work, practice, skill-building even if many people
> think they can do it because they already write words (or doodle or
> hum tunes).
>
> The comment-thread on the post just reminded me that many people who
> post to Harriet discussions appear to want to flee from actually
> talking about poetry as quickly as possible.
>
> Then again, I find B?k largely unreadable, a perfect example (from
> what I've seen, which is limited I'll admit) of the post-avant
> Emperor's new clothes.
>
> c
>
> On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 3:38 AM, Bob Grumman <bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net>
> wrote:
> > Chris Lott wrote:
> >>
> >> Guess I'm too dumb to see the profundity in B?k's comments, which are
> >> essentially repeated regularly by people about all kinds of artistic
> >> pursuits, though admittedly more so about writing.
> >>
> >> c
> >>
> >
> > I don't find his statement profound, but essentially unarguable.  If I
> have
> > him right, he's just saying a poet ought to have a procedure in mind and
> > follow it in composing poems: know what he's doing.  He suggests that
> most
> > poets don't.
> > I would say that most poets have and follow a procedure, but that it's
> > unconscious, which is okay with me, although I believe, with Bok, that
> it's
> > far better to have a conscious one, because conscious knowledge is easier
> to
> > use effectively, and is the only communicable knowledge.  I think what
> Bok
> > says is incomplete, though, and I suspect he would agree: he leaves out
> the
> > fact that you should not know (if you could) everything your poem will do
> in
> > advance.  You should use your procedure, but surprise yourself with what
> > results.
> >
> > --Bob
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > New-Poetry mailing list
> > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
> myhosting.com - Premium Microsoft? Windows? and Linux web and application
> hosting - http://link.myhosting.com/myhosting
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
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From grahamd at ripon.edu  Mon Dec  7 12:33:58 2009
From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham)
Date: Mon, 07 Dec 2009 11:33:58 -0600
Subject: [New-Poetry] Lazy liars like lying lazily
In-Reply-To: <380-22009121717107435@M2W131.mail2web.com>
Message-ID: <C74298A6.A263%grahamd@ripon.edu>

Whenever I encounter a phrase like "poets should" or "poetry must" I tend to
reach for my gun.

There are two other sorts of statements about writing poetry that I view
with great skepticism, generally.  One is the kind of thing we get from
Donald Hall, who makes a fetish of revision and always emphasizes what damn
hard work poetry is.  Yes, you're a very good boy, Don, I always feel like
saying. . . .

Another is the kind of thing we get from innumerable others of the first
thought/best thought camp, who emphasize how poems just get dashed off as if
by magic.  And we murder to dissect, etc.  Either I believe them, and the
poems reflect it (see Bukowski); or else (more commonly) I don't believe
them, and suspect there is a secret drawer of revision work somewhere (see
Ginsberg).  



====================================================
David Graham
grahamd at ripon.edu
Home Page:
http://web.me.com/drjazz/

Poetry Library:
http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html
====================================================





From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net  Mon Dec  7 13:03:17 2009
From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman)
Date: Mon, 07 Dec 2009 13:03:17 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: Poets: Really, =?windows-1252?Q?they=92re_?=
	=?windows-1252?Q?the_l=3D=3Fwindows-1252=3FB=3FPT93aW5kb3dzLTEy_NTI/?=
	=?windows-1252?Q?UT9hemllc3Q9MkNfc3R1cGlkZXMgdF9wZW9wbGVfSV9rbm93PTJFPz0?=
	=?windows-1252?Q?=3D=3F=3D?=
In-Reply-To: <b06d3f670912070825w66410930lffaa2b42ab58ca33@mail.gmail.com>
References: <752016.62968.qm@web110315.mail.gq1.yahoo.com><4b65c2d70912061038h59499653v263fbfdb538dcbb1@mail.gmail.com><b06d3f670
	912062146j46adcc22k917e6868a50acea0@mail.gmail.com><4B1CF752.20707@nut-n-but.net>
	<b06d3f670912070825w66410930lffaa2b42ab58ca33@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4B1D4365.4040804@nut-n-but.net>

Chris Lott wrote:
> That was my point: B?k basically says what has been said a million
> times before: art (in this case poetry) isn't solely an intuitive
> activity. It takes work, practice, skill-building even if many people
> think they can do it because they already write words (or doodle or
> hum tunes).
>   
I could only read a few of the posts, although some made sense to me.

> The comment-thread on the post just reminded me that many people who
> post to Harriet discussions appear to want to flee from actually
> talking about poetry as quickly as possible.
>   
Agreed.  But I find that true of New-Poetry, too.  Even you seem to 
prefer talking about poems than about poetry.

> Then again, I find B?k largely unreadable, a perfect example (from
> what I've seen, which is limited I'll admit) of the post-avant
> Emperor's new clothes.
>
> c
Gah, please, not the emperors new clothes cliche again, Chris!  I should 
know Bok's work better, I suppose, since it certainly is what I call 
burstnorm.  And I've even met him in person--Cambridge, Massachusetts, 
got exposed to his sound poetry at the same event it got its first (and 
possibly last) whiff of Grumman's mathematical poetry.  His sound poetry 
hits me like I'm sure it does or would hit you.  Well, maybe not 
exactly.  I find it sort of interesting but get nothing of aesthetic 
value out of it.  I've seen a few experiments on paper of his and 
thought better of them although I didn't connect as much as I think I 
ought to have.  He's tried to do with chemical formulae and diagrams 
what I've done with mathematical symbols and operations--I believe.  
Unsurprisingling, I'm all for that.

Gossip-level note: he's a member in good standing of my branch of 
poetry's main avant garde rivals, the language poets long-centered in 
SUNY, Buffalo (whose critic is Marjorie Perloff).  They seemed for a 
long time to be shutting us out of every venue they could (I, for 
instance, only got into the Cambridge thing by accident).  They may 
still be.  I'm not current enough on such things now to know.  I've 
always tried to be fair to them as a critic, but may be prejudiced 
against Bok because he's in that group.  

--Bob



From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net  Mon Dec  7 13:06:16 2009
From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman)
Date: Mon, 07 Dec 2009 13:06:16 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: Poets: Really, theyre the laziest, stupides
	t people I know.
In-Reply-To: <b06d3f670912070919k4514cf82l1647ff8e42d81fd6@mail.gmail.com>
References: <380-22009121717107435@M2W131.mail2web.com>
	<b06d3f670912070919k4514cf82l1647ff8e42d81fd6@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4B1D4418.7050804@nut-n-but.net>

Chris Lott wrote:
> No need. I'm sure I'm completely wrong anyway.
>
> c
Completely wrong about what, Chris?  Not sure what you were replying to.

--Bob



From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net  Mon Dec  7 13:14:51 2009
From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman)
Date: Mon, 07 Dec 2009 13:14:51 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: Poets: Really, =?windows-1252?Q?they=92re_?=
	=?windows-1252?Q?the_l=3D=3Fwindows-1252=3FB=3FPT93aW5kb3dzLTEy_NTI/?=
	=?windows-1252?Q?UT9hemllc3Q9MkNfc3R1cGlkZXMgdF9wZW9wbGVfSV9rbm93PTJFPz0?=
	=?windows-1252?Q?=3D=3F=3D?=
In-Reply-To: <f160a1210912070716r7a6959f0u3b5e4c85c0f3b43@mail.gmail.com>
References: <752016.62968.qm@web110315.mail.gq1.yahoo.com><4b65c2d70912061038h59499653v263fbfdb538dcbb1@mail.gmail.com><b06d3f670
	912062146j46adcc22k917e6868a50acea0@mail.gmail.com><4B1CF752.20707@nut-n-but.net>
	<f160a1210912070716r7a6959f0u3b5e4c85c0f3b43@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4B1D461B.1030002@nut-n-but.net>

Halvard Johnson wrote:
> Now there's a "fact" for you--that "you should not know . . .  
> everything your
> poem will do in advance."
>
> Hal
Wasn't intended to be a fact, just my view of how a poet ought to 
operate, and I do think there are objectively true statements about that 
which can be made.  But you probably are sneering at the banality of my 
turism, to which I would retort that when one is serious enough about 
poetry to informally discuss as often as I do, one commits all kinds of 
banalities, clumsinesses, errors, etc.  Try it, sometime, and you'll see.

--Bob
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From anny.ballardini at gmail.com  Mon Dec  7 13:19:25 2009
From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Mon, 7 Dec 2009 19:19:25 +0100
Subject: =?windows-1252?Q?Re=3A_=5BNew=2DPoetry=5D_Fwd=3A_Poets=3A_Really=2C_they=92re_the_l?=
	=?windows-1252?Q?=3D=3Fwindows=2D1252=3FB=3FPT93aW5kb3dzLTEy_NTI=2FUT9hemllc3Q9MkNfc3R1cG?=
	=?windows-1252?Q?lkZXMgdF9wZW9wbGVfSV9rbm93PTJFPz0=3D=3F=3D?=
In-Reply-To: <4B1D461B.1030002@nut-n-but.net>
References: <752016.62968.qm@web110315.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
	<4b65c2d70912061038h59499653v263fbfdb538dcbb1@mail.gmail.com>
	<4B1CF752.20707@nut-n-but.net>
	<f160a1210912070716r7a6959f0u3b5e4c85c0f3b43@mail.gmail.com>
	<4B1D461B.1030002@nut-n-but.net>
Message-ID: <4b65c2d70912071019i20e2ba4r13ac486f797a32d@mail.gmail.com>

Careful you all, Bob is out and spRiTe !



On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 7:14 PM, Bob Grumman <bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net>wrote:

>  Halvard Johnson wrote:
>
> Now there's a "fact" for you--that "you should not know . . .  everything
> your
> poem will do in advance."
>
> Hal
>
> Wasn't intended to be a fact, just my view of how a poet ought to operate,
> and I do think there are objectively true statements about that which can be
> made.  But you probably are sneering at the banality of my turism, to which
> I would retort that when one is serious enough about poetry to informally
> discuss as often as I do, one commits all kinds of banalities, clumsinesses,
> errors, etc.  Try it, sometime, and you'll see.
>
> --Bob
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
>


-- 
Anny Ballardini
http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078
http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html
I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing
star!
Friedrich Nietzsche

? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique
vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ?
Giovenale
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From jbalizsprince at googlemail.com  Mon Dec  7 13:23:10 2009
From: jbalizsprince at googlemail.com (Judy Prince)
Date: Mon, 7 Dec 2009 13:23:10 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: Poets: Really, theyre the laziest, stupides t 
	people I know.
In-Reply-To: <4B1D4418.7050804@nut-n-but.net>
References: <380-22009121717107435@M2W131.mail2web.com>
	<b06d3f670912070919k4514cf82l1647ff8e42d81fd6@mail.gmail.com>
	<4B1D4418.7050804@nut-n-but.net>
Message-ID: <7db1d01b0912071023k3f46c3c0h5f8b883932616d19@mail.gmail.com>

You're completely wrong, 2, Bob.

J

2009/12/7 Bob Grumman <bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net>

> Chris Lott wrote:
>
>> No need. I'm sure I'm completely wrong anyway.
>>
>> c
>>
> Completely wrong about what, Chris?  Not sure what you were replying to.
>
>
> --Bob
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
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From jbalizsprince at googlemail.com  Mon Dec  7 13:25:10 2009
From: jbalizsprince at googlemail.com (Judy Prince)
Date: Mon, 7 Dec 2009 13:25:10 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Lazy liars like lying lazily
In-Reply-To: <C74298A6.A263%grahamd@ripon.edu>
References: <380-22009121717107435@M2W131.mail2web.com>
	<C74298A6.A263%grahamd@ripon.edu>
Message-ID: <7db1d01b0912071025o2be48c36wac766a272241d5eb@mail.gmail.com>

Glad someone finally said this [she said, lazily].

j

2009/12/7 David Graham <grahamd at ripon.edu>

> Whenever I encounter a phrase like "poets should" or "poetry must" I tend
> to
> reach for my gun.
>
> There are two other sorts of statements about writing poetry that I view
> with great skepticism, generally.  One is the kind of thing we get from
> Donald Hall, who makes a fetish of revision and always emphasizes what damn
> hard work poetry is.  Yes, you're a very good boy, Don, I always feel like
> saying. . . .
>
> Another is the kind of thing we get from innumerable others of the first
> thought/best thought camp, who emphasize how poems just get dashed off as
> if
> by magic.  And we murder to dissect, etc.  Either I believe them, and the
> poems reflect it (see Bukowski); or else (more commonly) I don't believe
> them, and suspect there is a secret drawer of revision work somewhere (see
> Ginsberg).
>
>
>
> ====================================================
> David Graham
> grahamd at ripon.edu
> Home Page:
> http://web.me.com/drjazz/
>
> Poetry Library:
> http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html
> ====================================================
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
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From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net  Mon Dec  7 13:34:00 2009
From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman)
Date: Mon, 07 Dec 2009 13:34:00 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: Poets: Really, theyre the laziest, stupides
	t people I know.
In-Reply-To: <7db1d01b0912071023k3f46c3c0h5f8b883932616d19@mail.gmail.com>
References: <380-22009121717107435@M2W131.mail2web.com><b06d3f670912070919k4514cf82l1647ff8e42d81fd6@mail.gmail.com><4B1D4418.705
	0804@nut-n-but.net>
	<7db1d01b0912071023k3f46c3c0h5f8b883932616d19@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4B1D4A98.8070004@nut-n-but.net>

Judy Prince wrote:
> You're completely wrong, 2, Bob.
>
> J
Surely not as completely wrong as Chris?



From david.bircumshaw at ntlworld.com  Mon Dec  7 13:40:58 2009
From: david.bircumshaw at ntlworld.com (David Bircumshaw)
Date: Mon, 7 Dec 2009 18:40:58 -0000
Subject: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_=5BNew-Poetry=5D_Fwd:_Poets:_Really=2C_they're_the_l?=
	=?iso-8859-1?Q?=3D=3Fwindows-1252=3FQ=3Faziest=3D2C=5Fstupides_t=5Fpe?=
	=?iso-8859-1?Q?ople=5FI=5Fknow=3D2E=3F=3D?=
References: <752016.62968.qm@web110315.mail.gq1.yahoo.com><4b65c2d70912061038h59499653v263fbfdb538dcbb1@mail.gmail.com><b06d3f670912062146j46adcc22k917e6868a50acea0@mail.gmail.com><4B1CF752.20707@nut-n-but.net>
	<b06d3f670912070825w66410930lffaa2b42ab58ca33@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <836AFB4463B44094A9C8AE118A719079@SN037832120162>

Curiously enough, I was watching the art commentator Robert Hughes on tv the 
other night he said ANDY WARHOL was the 'stupidest man he'd ever known'. 
Stupid in the sense of mental vacancy, not in his commercial acuity.

This could possibly apply to some poets too.

David Bircumshaw
Website: http://www.staplednapkin.org.uk
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Chris Lott" <chris at chrislott.org>
To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &amp,Views" 
<new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 4:25 PM
Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Fwd: Poets: Really, they're the 
l=?windows-1252?Q?aziest=2C_stupides t_people_I_know=2E?=


> That was my point: B?k basically says what has been said a million
> times before: art (in this case poetry) isn't solely an intuitive
> activity. It takes work, practice, skill-building even if many people
> think they can do it because they already write words (or doodle or
> hum tunes).
>
> The comment-thread on the post just reminded me that many people who
> post to Harriet discussions appear to want to flee from actually
> talking about poetry as quickly as possible.
>
> Then again, I find B?k largely unreadable, a perfect example (from
> what I've seen, which is limited I'll admit) of the post-avant
> Emperor's new clothes.
>
> c
>
> On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 3:38 AM, Bob Grumman <bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net> 
> wrote:
>> Chris Lott wrote:
>>>
>>> Guess I'm too dumb to see the profundity in B?k's comments, which are
>>> essentially repeated regularly by people about all kinds of artistic
>>> pursuits, though admittedly more so about writing.
>>>
>>> c
>>>
>>
>> I don't find his statement profound, but essentially unarguable. If I 
>> have
>> him right, he's just saying a poet ought to have a procedure in mind and
>> follow it in composing poems: know what he's doing. He suggests that most
>> poets don't.
>> I would say that most poets have and follow a procedure, but that it's
>> unconscious, which is okay with me, although I believe, with Bok, that 
>> it's
>> far better to have a conscious one, because conscious knowledge is easier 
>> to
>> use effectively, and is the only communicable knowledge. I think what Bok
>> says is incomplete, though, and I suspect he would agree: he leaves out 
>> the
>> fact that you should not know (if you could) everything your poem will do 
>> in
>> advance. You should use your procedure, but surprise yourself with what
>> results.
>>
>> --Bob
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> New-Poetry mailing list
>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
> 




From robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com  Mon Dec  7 13:48:13 2009
From: robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com (Robin Hamilton)
Date: Mon, 7 Dec 2009 18:48:13 -0000
Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: Poets: Really,
	they're the l=?windows-1252?Q?aziest=2C_stupides t_people_I_know=2E?=
In-Reply-To: <836AFB4463B44094A9C8AE118A719079@SN037832120162>
References: <752016.62968.qm@web110315.mail.gq1.yahoo.com><4b65c2d70912061038h59499653v263fbfdb538dcbb1@mail.gmail.com><b06d3f670912062146j46adcc22k917e6868a50acea0@mail.gmail.com><4B1CF752.20707@nut-n-but.net><b06d3f670912070825w66410930lffaa2b42ab58ca33@mail.gmail.com>
	<836AFB4463B44094A9C8AE118A719079@SN037832120162>
Message-ID: <9E0EE87296CF4B7F975BAF001C1956D7@RobinLaptopPC>

> Curiously enough, I was watching the art commentator Robert Hughes on tv 
> the other night he said ANDY WARHOL was the 'stupidest man he'd ever 
> known'. Stupid in the sense of mental vacancy, not in his commercial 
> acuity.
>
> This could possibly apply to some poets too.
>
> David Bircumshaw

Auden said it about Tennyson, and Eliot agreed.

R. 




From anny.ballardini at gmail.com  Mon Dec  7 14:07:47 2009
From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Mon, 7 Dec 2009 20:07:47 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: Poets: Really, they're the laziest, stupides t 
	people I know.
In-Reply-To: <9E0EE87296CF4B7F975BAF001C1956D7@RobinLaptopPC>
References: <752016.62968.qm@web110315.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
	<4b65c2d70912061038h59499653v263fbfdb538dcbb1@mail.gmail.com>
	<b06d3f670912062146j46adcc22k917e6868a50acea0@mail.gmail.com>
	<4B1CF752.20707@nut-n-but.net>
	<b06d3f670912070825w66410930lffaa2b42ab58ca33@mail.gmail.com>
	<836AFB4463B44094A9C8AE118A719079@SN037832120162>
	<9E0EE87296CF4B7F975BAF001C1956D7@RobinLaptopPC>
Message-ID: <4b65c2d70912071107q3e97a5f7g3390f22d9b28af39@mail.gmail.com>

Matthew Arnold wrote that Pope's poetry lacked seriousness; Lytton Strachey
called him a "fiendishly clever and spiteful monkey"; and Oscar
Wilde<http://www.victorianweb.org/authors/wilde/wildeov.html>gave it
as his opinion that "There are two ways of disliking poetry. One is
not to like it, and the other is to read Pope"
In contrast, T. S. Eliot revered Pope, and paid him homage in an opening
passage (written in heroic
couplets<http://www.victorianweb.org/previctorian/tech/couplet.html>)
in "The Fire Sermon": Ezra Pound paid him a greater tribute still, however,
when he persuaded Eliot to delete the passage from the published poem. "Pope
has done this so well," Pound wrote, "that you cannot do it better; and if
you mean this as a burlesque, you has better suppress it, for you cannot
parody Pope unless you can write better verse than Pope ? and you can't."

All black and white from here:
http://www.victorianweb.org/previctorian/pope/litrel2.html



On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 7:48 PM, Robin Hamilton <
robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com> wrote:

> Curiously enough, I was watching the art commentator Robert Hughes on tv
>> the other night he said ANDY WARHOL was the 'stupidest man he'd ever known'.
>> Stupid in the sense of mental vacancy, not in his commercial acuity.
>>
>> This could possibly apply to some poets too.
>>
>> David Bircumshaw
>>
>
> Auden said it about Tennyson, and Eliot agreed.
>
> R.
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>



-- 
Anny Ballardini
http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078
http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html
I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing
star!
Friedrich Nietzsche

? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique
vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ?
Giovenale
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From halvard at gmail.com  Mon Dec  7 14:22:16 2009
From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson)
Date: Mon, 7 Dec 2009 13:22:16 -0600
Subject: =?windows-1252?Q?Re=3A_=5BNew=2DPoetry=5D_Fwd=3A_Poets=3A_Really=2C_they=92re_the_l?=
	=?windows-1252?Q?=3D=3Fwindows=2D1252=3FB=3FPT93aW5kb3dzLTEy_NTI=2FUT9hemllc3Q9MkNfc3R1cG?=
	=?windows-1252?Q?lkZXMgdF9wZW9wbGVfSV9rbm93PTJFPz0=3D=3F=3D?=
In-Reply-To: <4B1D461B.1030002@nut-n-but.net>
References: <752016.62968.qm@web110315.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
	<4b65c2d70912061038h59499653v263fbfdb538dcbb1@mail.gmail.com>
	<4B1CF752.20707@nut-n-but.net>
	<f160a1210912070716r7a6959f0u3b5e4c85c0f3b43@mail.gmail.com>
	<4B1D461B.1030002@nut-n-but.net>
Message-ID: <f160a1210912071122t597d6dcdy9693f9f5c04bdd26@mail.gmail.com>

Not sneering at all, Bob. Just pointing out that what you said was
a "fact" was not.

Hal

"We don't serve fine wine in half-pints, buddy."
                  --Robert Ashley

Halvard Johnson
================
halvard at gmail.com
http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home
http://entropyandme.blogspot.com
http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com
http://www.hamiltonstone.org


On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 12:14 PM, Bob Grumman <bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net>wrote:

>  Halvard Johnson wrote:
>
> Now there's a "fact" for you--that "you should not know . . .  everything
> your
> poem will do in advance."
>
> Hal
>
> Wasn't intended to be a fact, just my view of how a poet ought to operate,
> and I do think there are objectively true statements about that which can be
> made.  But you probably are sneering at the banality of my turism, to which
> I would retort that when one is serious enough about poetry to informally
> discuss as often as I do, one commits all kinds of banalities, clumsinesses,
> errors, etc.  Try it, sometime, and you'll see.
>
> --Bob
>
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From chris at chrislott.org  Mon Dec  7 15:16:24 2009
From: chris at chrislott.org (Chris Lott)
Date: Mon, 7 Dec 2009 11:16:24 -0900
Subject: =?windows-1252?Q?Re=3A_=5BNew=2DPoetry=5D_Fwd=3A_Poets=3A_Really=2C_they=92re_the_l?=
	=?windows-1252?Q?=3D=3Fwindows=2D1252=3FB=3FPT93aW5kb3dzLTEy_NTI=2FUT9hemllc3Q9MkNfc3R1cG?=
	=?windows-1252?Q?lkZXMgdF9wZW9wbGVfSV9rbm93PTJFPz0=3D=3F=3D?=
In-Reply-To: <4B1D4365.4040804@nut-n-but.net>
References: <752016.62968.qm@web110315.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
	<4b65c2d70912061038h59499653v263fbfdb538dcbb1@mail.gmail.com>
	<4B1CF752.20707@nut-n-but.net>
	<b06d3f670912070825w66410930lffaa2b42ab58ca33@mail.gmail.com>
	<4B1D4365.4040804@nut-n-but.net>
Message-ID: <b06d3f670912071216i35624e2akef8f321232ea0ac2@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 9:03 AM, Bob Grumman <bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net> wrote:
>
> Gah, please, not the emperors new clothes cliche again, Chris!

Sorry, Bob-- just calling it like I (don't) see them.

And anyway, isn't the Emperor's new clothes really a parable?  And
cliche and parable alike often point to something true (enough)...

c


From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net  Mon Dec  7 15:47:15 2009
From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman)
Date: Mon, 07 Dec 2009 15:47:15 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: Poets: Really, =?windows-1252?Q?they=92re_?=
	=?windows-1252?Q?the_l=3D=3Fwindows-1252=3FQ=3F=3D3D=3D3Fwindows=3D2D1?=
	=?windows-1252?Q?2_52=3D3FB=3D3FPT93aW5kb3dzLTEy=5FNTI=3D2FUT9hemllc3Q?=
	=?windows-1252?Q?9MkNfc3R1cG=3F=3DlkZXMgdF9wZW9wbGVfSV9rbm93PTJFPz0=3D=3F?=
	=?windows-1252?Q?=3D?=
In-Reply-To: <b06d3f670912071216i35624e2akef8f321232ea0ac2@mail.gmail.com>
References: <752016.62968.qm@web110315.mail.gq1.yahoo.com><4b65c2d70912061038h59499653v263fbfdb538dcbb1@mail.gmail.com><4B1CF752.
	20707@nut-n-but.net><b06d3f670912070825w66410930lffaa2b42ab58ca33@mail.gmail.com><4B1D4365.4040804@nut-n-but.net>
	<b06d3f670912071216i35624e2akef8f321232ea0ac2@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4B1D69D3.509@nut-n-but.net>

Chris Lott wrote:
> On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 9:03 AM, Bob Grumman <bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net> wrote:
>   
>> Gah, please, not the emperors new clothes cliche again, Chris!
>>     
>
> Sorry, Bob-- just calling it like I (don't) see them.
>
> And anyway, isn't the Emperor's new clothes really a parable?  And
> cliche and parable alike often point to something true (enough)...
>
> c
Not saying it isn't valid, but I cringe every time I read it, which is 
probably three or four times a day.  Trees for the woods, woods for the 
trees, iceberg's tip hit me the same way.  There seems to be a cycle 
phrases like these go through--a. strikingly fresh and apt, b. stale and 
annoying, c. part of the language, without metaphorical zip--can't think 
of an example right offhand.  Maybe, I have "a mountain" of work to do.  
"Mountain" mean "lot," not "mountain."  +Or not "mountain" to a 
significant degree.  The first person hearing this, if sensitive at all 
to metaphor, would have felt like he was facing a literal mountain.  I 
doubt many would feel that way now.

--Bob
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From david.bircumshaw at ntlworld.com  Mon Dec  7 18:26:33 2009
From: david.bircumshaw at ntlworld.com (David Bircumshaw)
Date: Mon, 7 Dec 2009 23:26:33 -0000
Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: Poets: Really, they're the laziest,
	stupides t people I know.
References: <752016.62968.qm@web110315.mail.gq1.yahoo.com><4b65c2d70912061038h59499653v263fbfdb538dcbb1@mail.gmail.com><b06d3f670912062146j46adcc22k917e6868a50acea0@mail.gmail.com><4B1CF752.20707@nut-n-but.net><b06d3f670912070825w66410930lffaa2b42ab58ca33@mail.gmail.com><836AFB4463B44094A9C8AE118A719079@SN037832120162>
	<9E0EE87296CF4B7F975BAF001C1956D7@RobinLaptopPC>
Message-ID: <69F8448BF7FB47EDA28E302799930388@SN037832120162>

I thought the line about Tennyson was something like that he combined the 
finest ear in English verse with being its stupidest poet.



David Bircumshaw
Website: http://www.staplednapkin.org.uk
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Robin Hamilton" <robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com>
To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &amp;Views" 
<new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 6:48 PM
Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Fwd: Poets: Really,they're the laziest, stupides t 
people I know.


>> Curiously enough, I was watching the art commentator Robert Hughes on tv 
>> the other night he said ANDY WARHOL was the 'stupidest man he'd ever 
>> known'. Stupid in the sense of mental vacancy, not in his commercial 
>> acuity.
>>
>> This could possibly apply to some poets too.
>>
>> David Bircumshaw
>
> Auden said it about Tennyson, and Eliot agreed.
>
> R.
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
> 




From Rsgwynn1 at cs.com  Mon Dec  7 18:40:54 2009
From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com (Rsgwynn1 at cs.com)
Date: Mon, 7 Dec 2009 18:40:54 EST
Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: Poets: Really, they're the laziest,
	stupides t people I...
Message-ID: <d2c.583ae8d4.384eec86@cs.com>

In a message dated 12/7/2009 5:27:04 PM Central Standard Time, 
david.bircumshaw at ntlworld.com writes: 
> 
> I thought the line about Tennyson was something like that he combined the 
> finest ear in English verse with being its stupidest poet.

That's about right as I remember it.  Auden was pretty much on target.  But 
a lot of poets are pretty stupid, though they're geniuses at career 
management.
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From david.bircumshaw at ntlworld.com  Mon Dec  7 18:50:27 2009
From: david.bircumshaw at ntlworld.com (David Bircumshaw)
Date: Mon, 7 Dec 2009 23:50:27 -0000
Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: Poets: Really, they're the laziest,
	stupides t people I...
References: <d2c.583ae8d4.384eec86@cs.com>
Message-ID: <E34B3FAD043F4DFDAF6BB701EE60F6B9@SN037832120162>

>That's about right as I remember it.  Auden was pretty much on target.  But a lot of poets are pretty stupid, though they're geniuses at career management<

Too true. 

.
David Bircumshaw
Website: http://www.staplednapkin.org.uk
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com 
  To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu 
  Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 11:40 PM
  Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Fwd: Poets: Really, they're the laziest,stupides t people I...


  In a message dated 12/7/2009 5:27:04 PM Central Standard Time, david.bircumshaw at ntlworld.com writes: 


    I thought the line about Tennyson was something like that he combined the 
    finest ear in English verse with being its stupidest poet.


  That's about right as I remember it.  Auden was pretty much on target.  But a lot of poets are pretty stupid, though they're geniuses at career management. 


------------------------------------------------------------------------------


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  New-Poetry mailing list
  New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
  http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
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From david.bircumshaw at ntlworld.com  Mon Dec  7 19:01:35 2009
From: david.bircumshaw at ntlworld.com (David Bircumshaw)
Date: Tue, 8 Dec 2009 00:01:35 -0000
Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: Poets: Really, they're the laziest,
	stupides t people I know.
References: <752016.62968.qm@web110315.mail.gq1.yahoo.com><4b65c2d70912061038h59499653v263fbfdb538dcbb1@mail.gmail.com><b06d3f670912062146j46adcc22k917e6868a50acea0@mail.gmail.com><4B1CF752.20707@nut-n-but.net><b06d3f670912070825w66410930lffaa2b42ab58ca33@mail.gmail.com><836AFB4463B44094A9C8AE118A719079@SN037832120162><9E0EE87296CF4B7F975BAF001C1956D7@RobinLaptopPC>
	<4b65c2d70912071107q3e97a5f7g3390f22d9b28af39@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <72DBA8F124F440C69B852EAB01489692@SN037832120162>

Now Pope is a really interesting case - I think he could be described as unintelligently intelligent - he manages to combine a wonderful feeling of the play of mind with every second-rate received opinion of his time, rather like a man who has never had an idea in his head but knows how to express the illusion of intelligence. I admire Pope's skill, without affection. It's rather like trying to make friends with statuary.


David Bircumshaw
Website: http://www.staplednapkin.org.uk
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Anny Ballardini 
  To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &amp,Views 
  Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 7:07 PM
  Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Fwd: Poets: Really, they're the laziest, stupides t people I know.


  Matthew Arnold wrote that Pope's poetry lacked seriousness; Lytton Strachey called him a "fiendishly clever and spiteful monkey"; and Oscar Wilde gave it as his opinion that "There are two ways of disliking poetry. One is not to like it, and the other is to read Pope"
  In contrast, T. S. Eliot revered Pope, and paid him homage in an opening passage (written in heroic couplets) in "The Fire Sermon": Ezra Pound paid him a greater tribute still, however, when he persuaded Eliot to delete the passage from the published poem. "Pope has done this so well," Pound wrote, "that you cannot do it better; and if you mean this as a burlesque, you has better suppress it, for you cannot parody Pope unless you can write better verse than Pope ? and you can't."

  All black and white from here:
  http://www.victorianweb.org/previctorian/pope/litrel2.html




  On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 7:48 PM, Robin Hamilton <robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com> wrote:

      Curiously enough, I was watching the art commentator Robert Hughes on tv the other night he said ANDY WARHOL was the 'stupidest man he'd ever known'. Stupid in the sense of mental vacancy, not in his commercial acuity.

      This could possibly apply to some poets too.

      David Bircumshaw


    Auden said it about Tennyson, and Eliot agreed.

    R. 

    _______________________________________________
    New-Poetry mailing list
    New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
    http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry




  -- 
  Anny Ballardini
  http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
  http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
  http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078
  http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html
  I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! 
  Friedrich Nietzsche

  ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique
  vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ?
  Giovenale




------------------------------------------------------------------------------


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  New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
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From halvard at gmail.com  Mon Dec  7 21:26:03 2009
From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson)
Date: Mon, 7 Dec 2009 20:26:03 -0600
Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: Poets: Really, they're the laziest, stupides t 
	people I...
In-Reply-To: <E34B3FAD043F4DFDAF6BB701EE60F6B9@SN037832120162>
References: <d2c.583ae8d4.384eec86@cs.com>
	<E34B3FAD043F4DFDAF6BB701EE60F6B9@SN037832120162>
Message-ID: <f160a1210912071826i267455e9t398effdc97fee7c9@mail.gmail.com>

Well, just true enough.

Hal

"We don't serve fine wine in half-pints, buddy."
                  --Robert Ashley

Halvard Johnson
================
halvard at gmail.com
http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home
http://entropyandme.blogspot.com
http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com
http://www.hamiltonstone.org


On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 5:50 PM, David Bircumshaw <
david.bircumshaw at ntlworld.com> wrote:

>  >That's about right as I remember it.  Auden was pretty much on target.
> But a lot of poets are pretty stupid, though they're geniuses at career
> management<
>
> Too true.
>
> .
> David Bircumshaw
> Website: http://www.staplednapkin.org.uk
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* Rsgwynn1 at cs.com
> *To:* new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> *Sent:* Monday, December 07, 2009 11:40 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [New-Poetry] Fwd: Poets: Really, they're the
> laziest,stupides t people I...
>
> In a message dated 12/7/2009 5:27:04 PM Central Standard Time,
> david.bircumshaw at ntlworld.com writes:
>
>
> I thought the line about Tennyson was something like that he combined the
> finest ear in English verse with being its stupidest poet.
>
>
>
> That's about right as I remember it.  Auden was pretty much on target.  But
> a lot of poets are pretty stupid, though they're geniuses at career
> management.
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
>
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From david.bircumshaw at ntlworld.com  Tue Dec  8 08:05:13 2009
From: david.bircumshaw at ntlworld.com (David Bircumshaw)
Date: Tue, 8 Dec 2009 13:05:13 -0000
Subject: [New-Poetry] Comment je suis devenu stupide
References: <380-22009121717107435@M2W131.mail2web.com><C74298A6.A263%grahamd@ripon.edu>
	<7db1d01b0912071025o2be48c36wac766a272241d5eb@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <2B6052EB2D3C45D8A1B9EEA25FABCA8F@SN037832120162>

by Martin Page, which, according to the review ( http://www.complete-review.com/reviews/popfr/pagem2.htm ) falls short because it is too lazy.



David Bircumshaw
Website: http://www.staplednapkin.org.uk
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Judy Prince 
  To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &amp,Views 
  Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 6:25 PM
  Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Lazy liars like lying lazily


  Glad someone finally said this [she said, lazily].


  j


  2009/12/7 David Graham <grahamd at ripon.edu>

    Whenever I encounter a phrase like "poets should" or "poetry must" I tend to
    reach for my gun.

    There are two other sorts of statements about writing poetry that I view
    with great skepticism, generally.  One is the kind of thing we get from
    Donald Hall, who makes a fetish of revision and always emphasizes what damn
    hard work poetry is.  Yes, you're a very good boy, Don, I always feel like
    saying. . . .

    Another is the kind of thing we get from innumerable others of the first
    thought/best thought camp, who emphasize how poems just get dashed off as if
    by magic.  And we murder to dissect, etc.  Either I believe them, and the
    poems reflect it (see Bukowski); or else (more commonly) I don't believe
    them, and suspect there is a secret drawer of revision work somewhere (see
    Ginsberg).



    ====================================================
    David Graham
    grahamd at ripon.edu
    Home Page:
    http://web.me.com/drjazz/

    Poetry Library:
    http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html
    ====================================================



    _______________________________________________
    New-Poetry mailing list
    New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
    http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry





------------------------------------------------------------------------------


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From jforjames at aol.com  Tue Dec  8 09:41:12 2009
From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 08 Dec 2009 09:41:12 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: Poets: Really, they're the laziest,
	stupides t people I...
In-Reply-To: <d2c.583ae8d4.384eec86@cs.com>
References: <d2c.583ae8d4.384eec86@cs.com>
Message-ID: <8CC462B9FA2B6E3-5BF8-F29A@webmail-m037.sysops.aol.com>


As Sharpers, Parasites, Pimps, Players,
Pick-Pockets, Coiners, Quacks, Sooth-Sayers,
And all those, that, in Enmity
With down-right Working, cunningly
Convert to their own Use the Labour
Of their good-natur'd heedless Neighbour:
These were called Knaves; but, bar the Name,
The grave Industrious were the Same.
All Trades and Places knew some Cheat,
No Calling was without Deceit. 

As fior being lazy, I would say that poets, from what I can tell by the proliferation of websites, books in print and POD, blogs, lists and boards, MFA writing programs, reading series and open mikes, etc., rival Mandleville's Bees for their industry.
Finnegan




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From jforjames at aol.com  Tue Dec  8 09:55:59 2009
From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 08 Dec 2009 09:55:59 -0500
Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[New-Poetry]_Fwd:_Poets:_Really,
	_they=E2=80=99re_the_l_azie?= =?utf-8?Q?st,_stupidest_people_I_know.?=
In-Reply-To: <4b65c2d70912070137u529c8100xe791c5cd703d2364@mail.gmail.com>
References: <752016.62968.qm@web110315.mail.gq1.yahoo.com><4b65c2d70912061038h59499653v263fbfdb538dcbb1@mail.gmail.com><b06d3f670912062146j46adcc22k917e6868a50acea0@mail.gmail.com>
	<4b65c2d70912070137u529c8100xe791c5cd703d2364@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8CC462DAFFAA5B8-5BF8-F7DD@webmail-m037.sysops.aol.com>


This is a pretty bold statement. It would save all of us a lot of trouble if we knew the magic recipe to poetry of merit...

?Here?s a series of rules of thumb that always work under all circumstances and if you adopt them slavishly, blindly, you can always be assured of writing something, producing something of merit.? 

I guess you have take his class to get formula.

Finnegan
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From anny.ballardini at gmail.com  Tue Dec  8 12:50:50 2009
From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Tue, 8 Dec 2009 18:50:50 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: Poets: Really, they're the laziest, stupides t 
	people I...
In-Reply-To: <8CC462B9FA2B6E3-5BF8-F29A@webmail-m037.sysops.aol.com>
References: <d2c.583ae8d4.384eec86@cs.com>
	<8CC462B9FA2B6E3-5BF8-F29A@webmail-m037.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <4b65c2d70912080950y67aaee19u1108bf6a0c333aff@mail.gmail.com>

Indeed!


On Tue, Dec 8, 2009 at 3:41 PM, <jforjames at aol.com> wrote:

> As Sharpers, Parasites, Pimps, Players,
> Pick-Pockets, Coiners, Quacks, Sooth-Sayers,
> And all those, that, in Enmity
> With down-right Working, cunningly
> Convert to their own Use the Labour
> Of their good-natur'd heedless Neighbour:
> These were called Knaves; but, bar the Name,
> The grave Industrious were the Same.
> All Trades and Places knew some Cheat,
> No Calling was without Deceit.
>
> As fior being lazy, I would say that poets, from what I can tell by the
> proliferation of websites, books in print and POD, blogs, lists and boards,
> MFA writing programs, reading series and open mikes, etc., rival
> Mandleville's Bees for their industry.
> Finnegan
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
>


-- 
Anny Ballardini
http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078
http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html
I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing
star!
Friedrich Nietzsche

? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique
vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ?
Giovenale
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From amyhappens at yahoo.com  Tue Dec  8 13:07:35 2009
From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king)
Date: Tue, 8 Dec 2009 10:07:35 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [New-Poetry] TODAY: You're invited - Lost & Found Publication Party
In-Reply-To: <CECFCA810B96674FA120BBFBE7564FCA15E340F439@MAILBOX.gc.cuny.edu>
References: <CECFCA810B96674FA120BBFBE7564FCA15E340F439@MAILBOX.gc.cuny.edu>
Message-ID: <846021.67948.qm@web83304.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>

I am told that Frank O'Hara's sister will be in attendance and may even say a few words.  Free chapbooks from this project will be given to everyone as well - see you there?  


 
Don?t
forget to join us today!For those of you who can?t be there and have written with interest in purchasing
the chapbooks, please stay tuned; they will soon be available via http://centerforthehumanitiesgc.org/.
We?ll keep you posted. And thank you for supporting Lost&Found!
 
 
 
invites you
to celebrate the publication of 
 
The Amiri Baraka/Edward Dorn 
Correspondence 
 
The Kenneth Koch/Frank O?Hara
Letters: 
Selections
 
Muriel Rukeyser: 
Darwin & the Writers
 
Philip Whalen?s Journals: 
Selections
 
Robert Creeley: Contexts of
Poetry, with selections from 
Daphne Marlatt?s Journals
 
the
 inaugural chapbook series in
 
Tuesday
December 8th, 2009
6:30 pm
 
The Skylight Room (9100)
The Graduate
Center, CUNY
365 Fifth
Avenue at 34th Street
New York
City
 
Introduction
Ammiel
Alcalay
 
Readings and
Presentations 
Stefania
Heim, Claudia Moreno Pisano, Josh Schneiderman, Brian Unger, 
special guestsDavid
Henderson, Bill Berkson, and others
 
Books and
drinks for all!
 
Lost &
Foundis a publication project emerging from archival and textual scholarship
done by students at The Graduate Center, with the primary focus on writers
falling under the rubric of the New American Poetry. Since accessibility to
archival material proposes alternative, divergent and enriched versions of
literary and cultural history, the Lost & Found initiative takes the New
American rubric writ large, including the affiliated and unaffiliated,
precursors and
followers. For more information, please visit
http://centerforthehumanitiesgc.org/
 
 
========================================


      
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From amyhappens at yahoo.com  Tue Dec  8 13:14:05 2009
From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king)
Date: Tue, 8 Dec 2009 10:14:05 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [New-Poetry] Gay may not be the new black, but ....
Message-ID: <247532.6129.qm@web83305.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>

Putting my foot in it again --   http://amyking.wordpress.com/2009/12/08/gay-may-not-be-the-?new?-black-but?/

Please be gentle,

Amy



_______

NEW BOOK
Slaves to Do These Things -- http://www.blazevox.org/bk-ak3.htm 



      



From jforjames at aol.com  Tue Dec  8 19:03:55 2009
From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 08 Dec 2009 19:03:55 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] bad bees: Lucinella
Message-ID: <8CC467A3BA4F926-32B8-14023@webmail-m039.sysops.aol.com>


http://www.bookslut.com/bad_behavior/2009_12_015464.php

The bad behavior in Lucinella is the social kind; while there?s some indiscriminate fucking, there?s no homicide or drug addiction. The poets are preoccupied with who?s who, who?s where, what they're writing, who they're doing. They are writers, but they are not self-sacrificing ascetics as some assume artists must be. They would sacrifice each other for a speaking engagement or publication; an editor?s career is described as ?standing on your writers? shoulders, alternatively with your foot on one or another of their necks.? You could call the relationships symbiotic or more accurately, opportunistic. They search for meaning, order, fame, and transcendence in dowdyish party scenes of empty fabulousness and joyless desperation. But then each success proves insignificant and fuels the search for the next one.

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From by.tjmst at gmail.com  Wed Dec  9 14:39:19 2009
From: by.tjmst at gmail.com (BY TJMST)
Date: Wed, 9 Dec 2009 20:39:19 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: New-Poetry Digest, Vol 66, Issue 11
In-Reply-To: <200912091700.nB9H0GDP010431@wiz.cath.vt.edu>
References: <200912091700.nB9H0GDP010431@wiz.cath.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <5908b9b20912091139t517bfef7s2221febdb34e99f0@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks to the supreme poet -that possibly controls the mind and fury and
libido energy of those fuckers.I was emotionally relieved to learn that
there was no homicide nor drug addiction beyond just fucking.Just in the
sense that assumes there was no laceration of the opposite victim 's organ
or part thereof.This doesn't neglect nor atenuate the psychological trauma
that could 've followed this unrestitutabl*e VIOLENT* experience.Even then i
hope poets will continue searching for meaning,order, timeless narrative
miscellany of this malevolent joyless desperation at unloved
partners.However who knows in toto the circumstances of captivity or
compromise -the European and American culturral ecology are a ctually
differnet in sexual desperation and criminality attached to this violence
compared to the  black African jworld or city scape.Whereas libido almost
always directly or indirectly ruled this world.Accordin g to the scriptures
the punishment is grievious.Yet nthere's no unrepentant sin -misdemeanor as
uncouth and incongrous as raping can be forgiien insofar as the guy
's previously hardened heart is softened and genuinely cleaned of all
pervertions and selfish,ferociou attempt  to egoism.*Thers's no human
condition that the word of God or  rhema- -especially  from the bible* can't
change.from a limitation to promotion from a wicked heart to a kind -hearted
one.The surgery of The Holy Spirit is miraculous.Testimonies abound galore
in all continents till date
More info on this though of course there's a lot of artistically pleasing
and psychically piercing poetry that heal the mood or bring jouosness
againeven to human folks who are musically or otherwise       l y rically
literate..
No wonder a musician s mementoes are buried in a high profile Detrioit
cemetry as those before MICHAEL jACKSON.Who 'll archive or engrave those
hymn writers - a few of whom are even blind -other than STEVE  WONDER....
GBEMI TIJANI MST,091109

On Wed, Dec 9, 2009 at 6:00 PM, <new-poetry-request at wiz.cath.vt.edu> wrote:

> Send New-Poetry mailing list submissions to
>        new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>        http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>        new-poetry-request at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
>        new-poetry-owner at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of New-Poetry digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
>   1. bad bees: Lucinella (jforjames at aol.com)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Tue, 08 Dec 2009 19:03:55 -0500
> From: jforjames at aol.com
> Subject: [New-Poetry] bad bees: Lucinella
> To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> Message-ID: <8CC467A3BA4F926-32B8-14023 at webmail-m039.sysops.aol.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
>
> http://www.bookslut.com/bad_behavior/2009_12_015464.php
>
> The bad behavior in Lucinella is the social kind; while there?s some
> indiscriminate fucking, there?s no homicide or drug addiction. The poets are
> preoccupied with who?s who, who?s where, what they're writing, who they're
> doing. They are writers, but they are not self-sacrificing ascetics as some
> assume artists must be. They would sacrifice each other for a speaking
> engagement or publication; an editor?s career is described as ?standing on
> your writers? shoulders, alternatively with your foot on one or another of
> their necks.? You could call the relationships symbiotic or more accurately,
> opportunistic. They search for meaning, order, fame, and transcendence in
> dowdyish party scenes of empty fabulousness and joyless desperation. But
> then each success proves insignificant and fuels the search for the next
> one.
>
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> URL:
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20091208/ab5830c4/attachment-0001.html
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
>
> End of New-Poetry Digest, Vol 66, Issue 11
> ******************************************
>
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From millb at aol.com  Wed Dec  9 14:53:22 2009
From: millb at aol.com (Millicent)
Date: Wed, 09 Dec 2009 14:53:22 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Last Call
In-Reply-To: <5908b9b20912091139t517bfef7s2221febdb34e99f0@mail.gmail.com>
References: <200912091700.nB9H0GDP010431@wiz.cath.vt.edu>
	<5908b9b20912091139t517bfef7s2221febdb34e99f0@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8CC472065CE9F86-1B4-15FBB@webmail-d017.sysops.aol.com>


Hello!
 
December 11th is the last day you can purchase my poetry book Woman on a Shaky Bridge for fourteen dollars and receive the benefits of the presale (go to www.finishinglinepress.com and look under new releases for Millicent Borges Accardi).
 

If you are on the fence or even considering taking a chance, I hope you?ll make the leap and check out my work!  For the price of a yoga class, you?ll have a poetry book by an emerging writer as well as a rocking book cover (based on a painting by my husband).
 
My writing awards include grants from the National Endowment for the Arts (NEA), Barbara Deming, and the California Arts Council, as well as artist residencies at Yaddo, Jentel, Vermont Studio, Fundaci?n Valpara?so in Spain and, this past September, Milkwood in the Czech Republic.

Recent publications include New Letters, Tampa Review, Nimrod and Wallace Stevens Journal, but over 50 literary publications as well as a number of anthologies have featured her work, most notably, Boomer Girls (University of Iowa Press).
 
Thanks so much to all of you who have given me encouragement in this sometimes annoying and frustrating process. Thank you to those who purchased the book, and tolerated these awful email solicitations.  I appreciate your generosity and kindness, especially at this time in my "career." 



 
I hope you enjoy the poems.
 
Have a terrific day,
 
Millicent

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From amyhappens at yahoo.com  Wed Dec  9 18:00:22 2009
From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king)
Date: Wed, 9 Dec 2009 15:00:22 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [New-Poetry] Ever hear of "The Family"?  The new Free Masons...?
Message-ID: <489458.83928.qm@web83307.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>


The Family --  http://amyking.wordpress.com/2009/12/09/fear-or-disinterest-the-powers-that-be/


      


From jforjames at aol.com  Fri Dec 11 15:19:33 2009
From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 2009 15:19:33 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] =?utf-8?q?New_Process_for_Oxford=E2=80=99s_Poetry_P?=
	=?utf-8?q?ost_?=
Message-ID: <8CC48B66318D986-28FC-1E76F@webmail-d088.sysops.aol.com>


http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/10/arts/10arts-NEWPROCESSFO_BRF.html

New Process for Oxford?s Poetry Post 
By CHARLES McGRATH; Compiled by JULIE BLOOM
Published: December 9, 2009 

After a scandal, the Oxford Professorship of Poetry, an elective post, will be awarded in a new way. Any Oxford graduate used to be entitled to vote as long as he or she showed up on the appointed day, and over the years this system led to a certain amount of electioneering. Ruth Padel, the first woman to hold the position, had to step down in May after just nine days on the job when it was disclosed that she had been involved in a smear campaign against her main rival, the Nobel Prize-winning poet Derek Walcott. The post has been vacant ever since. On Tuesday, Oxford University said it was rewriting the rules to allow graduates to vote online as well as in person and over a longer period of time. Already some are complaining that in the old system at least a voter had to care enough to travel to Oxford and that the new rules make casting a ballot entirely too easy. According to The Guardian, the university hopes to fill the post by next fall.

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From jforjames at aol.com  Fri Dec 11 15:23:29 2009
From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 2009 15:23:29 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Essex not Oxford
Message-ID: <8CC48B6EFB04A96-28FC-1E888@webmail-d088.sysops.aol.com>


http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2009/dec/11/derek-walcott-professor-of-poetry-essex
Derek Walcott appointed professor of poetry - at Essex

Nobel laureate Derek Walcott turns his back on Oxford University to take up a poetry professorship at the University of Essex

Following the most ferocious scandal the poetry world has experienced for years, during which favourite Derek Walcott withdrew from the race for the Oxford poetry professorship, he is next year to be made professor of poetry after all: but at the University of Essex, rather than Oxford.

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From Opus40-01 at opus40.org  Fri Dec 11 15:32:47 2009
From: Opus40-01 at opus40.org (TheOldMole)
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 2009 15:32:47 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Essex not Oxford
In-Reply-To: <8CC48B6EFB04A96-28FC-1E888@webmail-d088.sysops.aol.com>
References: <8CC48B6EFB04A96-28FC-1E888@webmail-d088.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <4B22AC6F.6080806@opus40.org>

Is that because of the Earl of Essex writing Shakespeare's plays?

jforjames at aol.com wrote:
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2009/dec/11/derek-walcott-professor-of-poetry-essex
> Derek Walcott appointed professor of poetry - at Essex
>  
> Nobel laureate Derek Walcott turns his back on Oxford University to 
> take up a poetry professorship at the University of Essex
>
> Following the most ferocious scandal the poetry world has experienced 
> for years, during which favourite Derek Walcott withdrew from the race 
> for the Oxford poetry professorship, he is next year to be made 
> professor of poetry after all: but at the University of Essex, rather 
> than Oxford.
>  
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>   

-- 
Tad Richards
Read my NY Writing Careers Examiner column today!
http://www.examiner.com/x-2862-NY-Writing-Careers-Examiner

http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/
http://opusforty.blogspot.com/



From junction at earthlink.net  Fri Dec 11 16:05:58 2009
From: junction at earthlink.net (Mark Weiss)
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 2009 16:05:58 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Bragging rights
Message-ID: <E1NJCgf-0003Ju-Fr@elasmtp-masked.atl.sa.earthlink.net>



The Whole Island: Six Decades of Cuban Poetry, edited by yours truly, 
was just listed on the Harriet Blog as one of the 10 best poetry 
books of the year. 
<http://www.poetryfoundation.org/harriet/2009/12/the-best-poetry-of-the-year/>http://www.poetryfoundation.org/harriet/2009/12/the-best-poetry-of-the-year/



Announcing The Whole Island: Six Decades of Cuban Poetry (University 
of California Press).
Forthcoming in November 2009.
http://go.ucpress.edu/WholeIsland


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From junction at earthlink.net  Fri Dec 11 16:07:30 2009
From: junction at earthlink.net (Mark Weiss)
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 2009 16:07:30 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Bragging rights
Message-ID: <E1NJCiD-0002UA-Me@elasmtp-banded.atl.sa.earthlink.net>



The Whole Island: Six Decades of Cuban Poetry, edited by yours truly, 
was just listed on the Harriet Blog as one of the 10 best poetry 
books of the year. 
<http://www.poetryfoundation.org/harriet/2009/12/the-best-poetry-of-the-year/>http://www.poetryfoundation.org/harriet/2009/12/the-best-poetry-of-the-year/



Announcing The Whole Island: Six Decades of Cuban Poetry (University 
of California Press).
Forthcoming in November 2009.
http://go.ucpress.edu/WholeIsland


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From anny.ballardini at gmail.com  Fri Dec 11 16:24:48 2009
From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 2009 22:24:48 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] Bragging rights
In-Reply-To: <E1NJCgf-0003Ju-Fr@elasmtp-masked.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
References: <E1NJCgf-0003Ju-Fr@elasmtp-masked.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <4b65c2d70912111324v20ec7a1cn5da17088c8ec93ce@mail.gmail.com>

Congratulations!!!

They made a mistake, mine is not there, ...

On Fri, Dec 11, 2009 at 10:05 PM, Mark Weiss <junction at earthlink.net> wrote:

>  *The Whole Island: Six Decades of Cuban Poetry, edited by yours truly,
> was just listed on the Harriet Blog as one of the 10 best poetry books of
> the year.
> http://www.poetryfoundation.org/harriet/2009/12/the-best-poetry-of-the-year/
>
> *
>
> Announcing *The Whole Island: Six Decades of Cuban Poetry* (University of
> California Press).
> Forthcoming in November 2009.
>  http://go.ucpress.edu/WholeIsland
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
>


-- 
Anny Ballardini
http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078
http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html
I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing
star!
Friedrich Nietzsche

? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique
vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ?
Giovenale
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From anny.ballardini at gmail.com  Fri Dec 11 16:58:01 2009
From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 2009 22:58:01 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] a gigabyte indigestion
Message-ID: <4b65c2d70912111358j81a9foad8e87359d10b547@mail.gmail.com>

The information tally was the equivalent of 3.6 zettabytes of data, or 34
gigabytes per person per day. Thirty-four gigabytes of digital data would
fit on about seven standard DVD disks.
http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=CNG.2f36cdb119be57424fd3704ce738c7f7.961&show_article=1


-- 
Anny Ballardini
http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078
http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html
I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing
star!
Friedrich Nietzsche

? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique
vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ?
Giovenale
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From halvard at gmail.com  Fri Dec 11 17:18:07 2009
From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson)
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 2009 16:18:07 -0600
Subject: [New-Poetry] Bragging rights
In-Reply-To: <E1NJCgf-0003Ju-Fr@elasmtp-masked.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
References: <E1NJCgf-0003Ju-Fr@elasmtp-masked.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <f160a1210912111418meb0eeb1x25f351384df6c5b3@mail.gmail.com>

After all those years of work on it, Mark, you certainly
deserve this. Congratulations!

Hal

"We don't serve fine wine in half-pints, buddy."
                  --Robert Ashley

Halvard Johnson
================
halvard at gmail.com
http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home
http://entropyandme.blogspot.com
http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com
http://www.hamiltonstone.org


On Fri, Dec 11, 2009 at 3:05 PM, Mark Weiss <junction at earthlink.net> wrote:

>  *The Whole Island: Six Decades of Cuban Poetry, edited by yours truly,
> was just listed on the Harriet Blog as one of the 10 best poetry books of
> the year.
> http://www.poetryfoundation.org/harriet/2009/12/the-best-poetry-of-the-year/
>
> *
>
> Announcing *The Whole Island: Six Decades of Cuban Poetry* (University of
> California Press).
> Forthcoming in November 2009.
>  http://go.ucpress.edu/WholeIsland
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
>
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From jforjames at aol.com  Fri Dec 11 19:02:05 2009
From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 2009 19:02:05 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Bragging rights
In-Reply-To: <E1NJCiD-0002UA-Me@elasmtp-banded.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
References: <E1NJCiD-0002UA-Me@elasmtp-banded.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <8CC48D579295B08-2EAC-21886@webmail-m095.sysops.aol.com>


Congrats, Mark. I'll be acquiring a copy on my own if Santa passes me over.
Finnegan

Sent: Fri, Dec 11, 2009 4:07 pm
Subject: [New-Poetry] Bragging rights


The Whole Island: Six Decades of Cuban Poetry, edited by yours truly, was just listed on the Harriet Blog as one of the 10 best poetry books of the year. http://www.poetryfoundation.org/harriet/2009/12/the-best-poetry-of-the-year/


Announcing The Whole Island: Six Decades of Cuban Poetry (University of California Press). 
Forthcoming in November 2009. 
http://go.ucpress.edu/WholeIsland

                                            


_______________________________________________
ew-Poetry mailing list
ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry

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From jforjames at aol.com  Sat Dec 12 12:28:21 2009
From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com)
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 2009 12:28:21 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Dante's Inferno (the video game)
Message-ID: <8CC4967A29D50B9-FB8-192DA@webmail-d030.sysops.aol.com>


http://www.wired.com/gamelife/2009/12/dantes-inferno-2/
Long before Bill and Ted or that space marine from Doom went to Hell, one guy had already taken an excursion to the underworld. He wrote a wicked poem about it.

In Inferno, the first part of The Divine Comedy, 14th-century poet Dante Alighieri toured the devil?s domain, using allegory and cultural references to comment on contemporary politics and the human condition. Little did the guy know that he was also writing a videogame design document.

It may be heresy to call Dante the world?s first videogame designer, but Jonathan Knight, executive producer of the forthcoming Dante?s Inferno videogame, suggests that by dividing hell into nine distinct circles, the poet made his job a heck of a lot easier. ?He almost creates a boss for each level,? said Knight.

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From grahamd at ripon.edu  Sat Dec 12 12:43:36 2009
From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham)
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 2009 11:43:36 -0600
Subject: [New-Poetry] Vendler on Ashbery
Message-ID: <142DD4D6-9B9C-4636-8C6F-87808CE0181A@ripon.edu>

Helen Vendler reviews Ashbery's new book at the New York Times.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/13/books/review/Vendler-t.html?_r=1&ref=review

Have we ever witnessed such an outpouring of geriatric poetry as we're seeing from this particular generation?  Ashbery, Bly, Stern, Kumin, Hall, Wilbur, Merwin, Pastan, Levine, Rich, Snyder, and more--all pumping out the poetry in their late 70s and 80s. . . .  Not to mention my old teacher Madeline DeFrees, who just turned 90.


========================================
David Graham
grahamd at ripon.edu

Home Page:
http://web.me.com/drjazz

Poetry Library:
http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html
==========================================




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From jforjames at aol.com  Sat Dec 12 12:56:27 2009
From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com)
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 2009 12:56:27 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Blog of note: how a poem happens
Message-ID: <8CC496B8F803C2D-FB8-197F3@webmail-d030.sysops.aol.com>


http://howapoemhappens.blogspot.com/

Featured poet, one poem and brief interview.
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From anny.ballardini at gmail.com  Sat Dec 12 13:00:20 2009
From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 2009 19:00:20 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] Dante's Inferno (the video game)
In-Reply-To: <8CC4967A29D50B9-FB8-192DA@webmail-d030.sysops.aol.com>
References: <8CC4967A29D50B9-FB8-192DA@webmail-d030.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <4b65c2d70912121000g6ed9dc36jce156407f7fabd7f@mail.gmail.com>

The video is quite impressive. Still, I think, the reading of the original
work would do better, maybe with Dore's etchings:
http://dore.artpassions.net/

the difference? In the video what is most worrying is how 'blood' is
highlighted. They make of violence their selling ticket, while Dore' digs in
solitude, coldness, sadness.


On Sat, Dec 12, 2009 at 6:28 PM, <jforjames at aol.com> wrote:

> http://www.wired.com/gamelife/2009/12/dantes-inferno-2/
> Long before Bill and Ted or that space marine from Doom went to Hell, one
> guy had already taken an excursion to the underworld. He wrote a wicked poem
> about it.
>
> In Inferno, the first part of The Divine Comedy, 14th-century poet Dante
> Alighieri toured the devil?s domain, using allegory and cultural references
> to comment on contemporary politics and the human condition. Little did the
> guy know that he was also writing a videogame design document.
>
> It may be heresy to call Dante the world?s first videogame designer, but
> Jonathan Knight, executive producer of the forthcoming Dante?s Inferno
> videogame, suggests that by dividing hell into nine distinct circles, the
> poet made his job a heck of a lot easier. ?He almost creates a boss for each
> level,? said Knight.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
>


-- 
Anny Ballardini
http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078
http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html
I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing
star!
Friedrich Nietzsche

? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique
vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ?
Giovenale
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From Rsgwynn1 at cs.com  Sat Dec 12 13:23:54 2009
From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com (Rsgwynn1 at cs.com)
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 2009 13:23:54 EST
Subject: [New-Poetry] Vendler on Ashbery
Message-ID: <bc6.5b0c54c7.385539ba@cs.com>

In a message dated 12/12/2009 11:44:59 AM Central Standard Time, 
grahamd at ripon.edu writes: 
> 
> 
> Have we ever witnessed such an outpouring of geriatric poetry as we're 
> seeing from this particular generation?  Ashbery, Bly, Stern, Kumin, Hall, 
> Wilbur, Merwin, Pastan, Levine, Rich, Snyder, and more--all pumping out the 
> poetry in their late 70s and 80s. . . .  Not to mention my old teacher 
> Madeline DeFrees, who just turned 90.
> 
Robert Conquest just published a new collection, at the age of 92!

http://waywiser-press.com/conquest.html
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From halvard at gmail.com  Sat Dec 12 13:31:33 2009
From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson)
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 2009 12:31:33 -0600
Subject: [New-Poetry] Vendler on Ashbery
In-Reply-To: <bc6.5b0c54c7.385539ba@cs.com>
References: <bc6.5b0c54c7.385539ba@cs.com>
Message-ID: <f160a1210912121031w1adbd101k40e7a3bf23beae6f@mail.gmail.com>

If those old Oscar Williams anthologies taught us anything
it was that *all* poets are old, with a few exceptions such as
Keats, Shelley, and Oscar himself.

Hal

"We don't serve fine wine in half-pints, buddy."
                  --Robert Ashley

Halvard Johnson
================
halvard at gmail.com
http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home
http://entropyandme.blogspot.com
http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com
http://www.hamiltonstone.org


On Sat, Dec 12, 2009 at 12:23 PM, <Rsgwynn1 at cs.com> wrote:

> In a message dated 12/12/2009 11:44:59 AM Central Standard Time,
> grahamd at ripon.edu writes:
>
>
>
> Have we ever witnessed such an outpouring of geriatric poetry as we're
> seeing from this particular generation?  Ashbery, Bly, Stern, Kumin, Hall,
> Wilbur, Merwin, Pastan, Levine, Rich, Snyder, and more--all pumping out the
> poetry in their late 70s and 80s. . . .  Not to mention my old teacher
> Madeline DeFrees, who just turned 90.
>
>
> Robert Conquest just published a new collection, at the age of 92!
>
> http://waywiser-press.com/conquest.html
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
>
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From chris at chrislott.org  Sat Dec 12 13:40:46 2009
From: chris at chrislott.org (Chris Lott)
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 2009 09:40:46 -0900
Subject: [New-Poetry] Vendler on Ashbery
In-Reply-To: <f160a1210912121031w1adbd101k40e7a3bf23beae6f@mail.gmail.com>
References: <bc6.5b0c54c7.385539ba@cs.com>
	<f160a1210912121031w1adbd101k40e7a3bf23beae6f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <b06d3f670912121040k1cacd54fm3d207c05bd636ce4@mail.gmail.com>

The bookstores here are full of new books being published by poets who
are hundreds of years old...

c


From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com  Sat Dec 12 19:21:56 2009
From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell)
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 2009 16:21:56 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [New-Poetry] Old Masters/poets aged 80+ still writing
Message-ID: <546895.14824.qm@web55204.mail.re4.yahoo.com>

The old masters/up to their usual games.

                                    I wish Vendler didn't compare the short poem by Ashberry to Dickinson. No one ever really writes in the manner of Emily D or writes in a way that compares favorably, though sometimes they might have something of her unique sound. 


      


From rsgwynn1 at cs.com  Sat Dec 12 19:48:24 2009
From: rsgwynn1 at cs.com (rsgwynn1 at cs.com)
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 2009 19:48:24 EST
Subject: [New-Poetry] Old Masters/poets aged 80+ still writing
Message-ID: <3dc4.5bdc44d7.385593d8@cs.com>

Vendler is always looking for some kind of validation in the canon.  
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From junction at earthlink.net  Sat Dec 12 20:05:29 2009
From: junction at earthlink.net (Mark Weiss)
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 2009 20:05:29 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Vendler on Ashbery
In-Reply-To: <142DD4D6-9B9C-4636-8C6F-87808CE0181A@ripon.edu>
References: <142DD4D6-9B9C-4636-8C6F-87808CE0181A@ripon.edu>
Message-ID: <E1NJcu0-00044Q-6l@elasmtp-junco.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

The degree to which the mainstream remains unaware of the rest is 
utterly astonishing, and utterly tiresome. A phenomenon that only 
exists in the UK and the US. No Latin American critic of any 
persuasion could get away with it.

At 12:43 PM 12/12/2009, you wrote:
>Helen Vendler reviews Ashbery's new book at the New York Times.
>
><http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/13/books/review/Vendler-t.html?_r=1&ref=review>http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/13/books/review/Vendler-t.html?_r=1&ref=review
>
>Have we ever witnessed such an outpouring of geriatric poetry as 
>we're seeing from this particular generation?  Ashbery, Bly, Stern, 
>Kumin, Hall, Wilbur, Merwin, Pastan, Levine, Rich, Snyder, and 
>more--all pumping out the poetry in their late 70s and 80s. . . 
>.  Not to mention my old teacher Madeline DeFrees, who just turned 90.
>
>
>========================================
>David Graham
><mailto:grahamd at ripon.edu>grahamd at ripon.edu
>
>Home Page:
><http://web.me.com/drjazz>http://web.me.com/drjazz
>
>Poetry Library:
><http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html>http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html
>==========================================
>
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>New-Poetry mailing list
>New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry

Announcing The Whole Island: Six Decades of Cuban Poetry (University 
of California Press).
Forthcoming in November 2009.
http://go.ucpress.edu/WholeIsland





From jforjames at aol.com  Sat Dec 12 20:07:46 2009
From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com)
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 2009 20:07:46 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Beachy-Quick
Message-ID: <8CC49A7D0F43DC5-7768-5949@webmail-m015.sysops.aol.com>


http://bostonreview.net/BR34.6/fischer.php
A Whaler?s Dictionary
Dan Beachy-Quick
Milkweed Editions, $20.00 (paper)
This Nest, Swift Passerine
Dan Beachy-Quick
Tupelo Editions, $16.95 (paper) 
B. K. Fischer
 
Like so many of his peers, Dan Beachy-Quick came of age in the heyday of post- structuralism in American universities. The lessons of Derrida infuse his work with a persistent awareness of language?s intrinsic contradictions. Drawing on the basic tenets of French theory, Beachy-Quick has cultivated a poetics of intertwined reference and palimpsestic harmonies, and his two most recent books attest to the promise and pitfalls of this post-structuralist legacy.

=
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From anny.ballardini at gmail.com  Sun Dec 13 03:24:51 2009
From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 2009 09:24:51 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] Vendler on Ashbery
In-Reply-To: <E1NJcu0-00044Q-6l@elasmtp-junco.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
References: <142DD4D6-9B9C-4636-8C6F-87808CE0181A@ripon.edu>
	<E1NJcu0-00044Q-6l@elasmtp-junco.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <4b65c2d70912130024r4b1a6377j9f7fbe4e032148fe@mail.gmail.com>

I do not agree with what Mark says, there are different historical and
social dynamics to consider. I find his statement out of context.
And I am very happy for Ashbery, he deserves every single word of praise.

I also agree with those who went beyond the statement, like Chris Lott, yes
we have hundreds of poets who are over hundreds and hundreds years old, I
sometimes feel like living in the Middle Ages when the average life
expectancy was about 40.

Have a nice Sunday, Anny

On Sun, Dec 13, 2009 at 2:05 AM, Mark Weiss <junction at earthlink.net> wrote:

> The degree to which the mainstream remains unaware of the rest is utterly
> astonishing, and utterly tiresome. A phenomenon that only exists in the UK
> and the US. No Latin American critic of any persuasion could get away with
> it.
>
>
> At 12:43 PM 12/12/2009, you wrote:
>
>> Helen Vendler reviews Ashbery's new book at the New York Times.
>>
>> <
>> http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/13/books/review/Vendler-t.html?_r=1&ref=review
>> >
>> http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/13/books/review/Vendler-t.html?_r=1&ref=review
>>
>>
>> Have we ever witnessed such an outpouring of geriatric poetry as we're
>> seeing from this particular generation?  Ashbery, Bly, Stern, Kumin, Hall,
>> Wilbur, Merwin, Pastan, Levine, Rich, Snyder, and more--all pumping out the
>> poetry in their late 70s and 80s. . . .  Not to mention my old teacher
>> Madeline DeFrees, who just turned 90.
>>
>>
>> ========================================
>> David Graham
>> <mailto:grahamd at ripon.edu>grahamd at ripon.edu
>>
>> Home Page:
>> <http://web.me.com/drjazz>http://web.me.com/drjazz
>>
>> Poetry Library:
>> <http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html>
>> http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html
>> ==========================================
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> New-Poetry mailing list
>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>>
>
> Announcing The Whole Island: Six Decades of Cuban Poetry (University of
> California Press).
> Forthcoming in November 2009.
> http://go.ucpress.edu/WholeIsland
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>



-- 
Anny Ballardini
http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078
http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html
I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing
star!
Friedrich Nietzsche

? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique
vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ?
Giovenale
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From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net  Sun Dec 13 06:43:51 2009
From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman)
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 2009 06:43:51 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Vendler on Ashbery
In-Reply-To: <4b65c2d70912130024r4b1a6377j9f7fbe4e032148fe@mail.gmail.com>
References: <142DD4D6-9B9C-4636-8C6F-87808CE0181A@ripon.edu><E1NJcu0-00044Q-6l@elasmtp-junco.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
	<4b65c2d70912130024r4b1a6377j9f7fbe4e032148fe@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4B24D377.3000105@nut-n-but.net>

Anny Ballardini wrote:
> I do not agree with what Mark says, 
Sorry, Annie, for once he's completely right--at least about the US and 
UK, the latter of which I know from friends who live there.  Latin 
America does seem open to a wide range of poetries, perhaps as close to 
the full range as there is.  More students of poetry from there have 
written me about my poetry and poetry like it than Americans or 
Britishers.  (Something like four or five compare with one or two.)

 >there are different historical and social dynamics to consider.

Right.  In the US the historical and social dynamics lead to an empasis 
on the poetry of dead poets, the nearest-dead, and their imitators.
> I find his statement out of context.
> And I am very happy for Ashbery, he deserves every single word of praise.
Being compared with Emily is praise?
>
> I also agree with those who went beyond the statement, like Chris 
> Lott, yes we have hundreds of poets who are over hundreds and hundreds 
> years old, I sometimes feel like living in the Middle Ages when the 
> average life expectancy was about 40.
>
> Have a nice Sunday, Anny
I wonder how many mainstream publishers are over 100-years-old.  Might 
explain to a slight degree why we have the number of books by old poets 
that we do.  But a need to keep all niches free of interesting poetry is 
probably the man reason for that.

Bob, trying to prevent Mark from taking away his title as Baddest 
Contributor to New-Poetry



From junction at earthlink.net  Sun Dec 13 09:13:32 2009
From: junction at earthlink.net (Mark Weiss)
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 2009 09:13:32 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Vendler on Ashbery
In-Reply-To: <4b65c2d70912130024r4b1a6377j9f7fbe4e032148fe@mail.gmail.co
 m>
References: <142DD4D6-9B9C-4636-8C6F-87808CE0181A@ripon.edu>
	<E1NJcu0-00044Q-6l@elasmtp-junco.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
	<4b65c2d70912130024r4b1a6377j9f7fbe4e032148fe@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <E1NJpCc-00035W-AR@elasmtp-galgo.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

I of course agree about Ashbery.

At 03:24 AM 12/13/2009, you wrote:
>I do not agree with what Mark says, there are 
>different historical and social dynamics to 
>consider. I find his statement out of context.
>And I am very happy for Ashbery, he deserves every single word of praise.
>
>I also agree with those who went beyond the 
>statement, like Chris Lott, yes we have hundreds 
>of poets who are over hundreds and hundreds 
>years old, I sometimes feel like living in the 
>Middle Ages when the average life expectancy was about 40.
>
>Have a nice Sunday, Anny
>
>On Sun, Dec 13, 2009 at 2:05 AM, Mark Weiss 
><<mailto:junction at earthlink.net>junction at earthlink.net> wrote:
>The degree to which the mainstream remains 
>unaware of the rest is utterly astonishing, and 
>utterly tiresome. A phenomenon that only exists 
>in the UK and the US. No Latin American critic 
>of any persuasion could get away with it.
>
>
>At 12:43 PM 12/12/2009, you wrote:
>Helen Vendler reviews Ashbery's new book at the New York Times.
>
><<http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/13/books/review/Vendler-t.html?_r=1&ref=review>http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/13/books/review/Vendler-t.html?_r=1&ref=review>http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/13/books/review/Vendler-t.html?_r=1&ref=review
>
>
>Have we ever witnessed such an outpouring of 
>geriatric poetry as we're seeing from this 
>particular generation?  Ashbery, Bly, Stern, 
>Kumin, Hall, Wilbur, Merwin, Pastan, Levine, 
>Rich, Snyder, and more--all pumping out the 
>poetry in their late 70s and 80s. . . .  Not to 
>mention my old teacher Madeline DeFrees, who just turned 90.
>
>
>========================================
>David Graham
><mailto:grahamd at ripon.edu><mailto:grahamd at ripon.edu>grahamd at ripon.edu
>
>Home Page:
><<http://web.me.com/drjazz>http://web.me.com/drjazz>http://web.me.com/drjazz
>
>Poetry Library:
><<http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html>http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html>http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html
>==========================================
>
>
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>New-Poetry mailing list
><mailto:New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
>
>Announcing The Whole Island: Six Decades of 
>Cuban Poetry (University of California Press).
>Forthcoming in November 2009.
><http://go.ucpress.edu/WholeIsland>http://go.ucpress.edu/WholeIsland
>
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>New-Poetry mailing list
><mailto:New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
>
>
>
>--
>Anny Ballardini
><http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/>http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
>http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
><http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078>http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078
>http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html
>I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star!
>Friedrich Nietzsche
>
>? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique
>vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ?
>Giovenale
>
>_______________________________________________
>New-Poetry mailing list
>New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry

Announcing The Whole Island: Six Decades of Cuban 
Poetry (University of California Press).
Forthcoming in November 2009.
http://go.ucpress.edu/WholeIsland






From grahamd at ripon.edu  Sun Dec 13 11:39:19 2009
From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham)
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 2009 10:39:19 -0600
Subject: [New-Poetry] Mainstreamery
Message-ID: <BFF7C753-7DED-4911-806F-70FC4BD63428@ripon.edu>

On Dec 12, 2009, at 7:05 PM, Mark Weiss wrote:

> The degree to which the mainstream remains unaware of the rest is utterly astonishing, and utterly tiresome. 
========================

Tiresome, OK.  But why astonishing?   By any reasonable definition of the word, "mainstream" surely means "most people who read/write poetry," doesn't it?  (Itself a tiny subset of the literate public in this country, evidently.)  I may not enjoy the fact that Brad Paisley sells more records than John Prine, but I'm hardly surprised.

As for tiresome, well, don't get me started.


========================================
David Graham
grahamd at ripon.edu

Home Page:
http://web.me.com/drjazz

Poetry Library:
http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html
==========================================




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From mykelmarsh at comcast.net  Sun Dec 13 12:39:06 2009
From: mykelmarsh at comcast.net (mykelmarsh at comcast.net)
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 2009 17:39:06 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [New-Poetry] Mainstreamery
In-Reply-To: <BFF7C753-7DED-4911-806F-70FC4BD63428@ripon.edu>
Message-ID: <1541827783.4587081260725946572.JavaMail.root@sz0153a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>

The fact is most people don't have the time and mental energy to read a broad range of literature. They are working and dealing with life, family, maybe trying to figure out some of the immense problems facing the world. Mainstream literature is accessible and perhaps useful to many people and therefore has as much value as anything else. If you want you can write more mainstream material and so sell more or get more notice. I write what I like to write, and actually I would love for other people to be interested in my work, but I won't change what I write to suit others so don't expect others to change their reading habits to suit my taste. 
There is a reason why Ron Paul or Ralph Nader or any other fringe politician will not be president, because they refuse to compromise their values for votes. Borack Obama, George Bush, Bill Clinton and anyone else who became president moved toward a middle position at least a little, or pretended to do so, in order for the moderate middle to accept them. The same goes for literature. If you want to gain an audience, you have to write for that audience. Maybe like Obama, you can be intelligent about it and shift things gradually in ways that reflect your values, but you can't expect people to jump off a cliff for you, especially when they have to work hard to understand your message. 
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "David Graham" <grahamd at ripon.edu> 
To: "new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu &amp; Views" <new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu> 
Sent: Sunday, December 13, 2009 8:39:19 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific 
Subject: [New-Poetry] Mainstreamery 


On Dec 12, 2009, at 7:05 PM, Mark Weiss wrote: 


The degree to which the mainstream remains unaware of the rest is utterly astonishing, and utterly tiresome. 
======================== 


Tiresome, OK. But why astonishing? By any reasonable definition of the word, "mainstream" surely means "most people who read/write poetry," doesn't it? (Itself a tiny subset of the literate public in this country, evidently.) I may not enjoy the fact that Brad Paisley sells more records than John Prine, but I'm hardly surprised. 


As for tiresome, well, don't get me started. 





======================================== 
David Graham 
grahamd at ripon.edu 


Home Page: 
http://web.me.com/drjazz 


Poetry Library: 
http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html 
========================================== 





_______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry 
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From anny.ballardini at gmail.com  Sun Dec 13 12:46:58 2009
From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 2009 18:46:58 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] Elderly Poets
Message-ID: <4b65c2d70912130946p3da6c017n89d797203b136e4a@mail.gmail.com>

What I wish to make clear is that I revere elderly poets and I think they
should be by any country that professes a civilized culture. Tribal cultures
respected the elderly and we have much to learn from those who are older
than us. As we are still learning from Homer, Virgil, Dante, Shakespeare and
all those who preceded us in the past. If I should define myself, then I am
a neo-classicist, a romanticist, a postmodernist, a modernist, a
post-structuralist, a structuralist and a classicist and - you name it, and
that is what I am, to put it plainly, the product of all what I had time and
the perseverance to read.

-- 
Anny Ballardini
http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078
http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html
I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing
star!
Friedrich Nietzsche

? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique
vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ?
Giovenale
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From junction at earthlink.net  Sun Dec 13 12:52:38 2009
From: junction at earthlink.net (Mark Weiss)
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 2009 12:52:38 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Mainstreamery
In-Reply-To: <BFF7C753-7DED-4911-806F-70FC4BD63428@ripon.edu>
References: <BFF7C753-7DED-4911-806F-70FC4BD63428@ripon.edu>
Message-ID: <E1NJsdr-00032y-KW@elasmtp-dupuy.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

It's not a question of what sells, but the responsibility of an 
intellectual and student of the art. Far more Latin Americans enjoy 
the sentimental and easy Jaime Sabines, but all poetry readers and 
critics are aware of Lezama Lima, who's neither, and they would be 
considered idiots if they weren't. In my Cuban anthology I include a 
lot of poetry that I think is the best and most representative of its 
kind, which doesn't always mean that I'd seek out those poets for my 
private reading. Awareness doesn't mean love, but it should be part 
of the job description. I don't understand the fuss about Elizabeth 
Bishop, but I've read all of her poetry several times (not the 
posthumous book, tho. I'll get to it) in an effort to understand. I'm 
not aware that Vendler has made the same effort in reading, say, Jack Spicer.

What I'm saying is that the walls separating ways of thinking are 
unusually strong in the US and UK. Maybe this goes beyond the arts as well.

At 11:39 AM 12/13/2009, you wrote:
>On Dec 12, 2009, at 7:05 PM, Mark Weiss wrote:
>
>>The degree to which the mainstream remains unaware of the rest is 
>>utterly astonishing, and utterly tiresome.
>========================
>
>Tiresome, OK.  But why astonishing?   By any reasonable definition 
>of the word, "mainstream" surely means "most people who read/write 
>poetry," doesn't it?  (Itself a tiny subset of the literate public 
>in this country, evidently.)  I may not enjoy the fact that Brad 
>Paisley sells more records than John Prine, but I'm hardly surprised.
>
>As for tiresome, well, don't get me started.
>
>
>========================================
>David Graham
><mailto:grahamd at ripon.edu>grahamd at ripon.edu
>
>Home Page:
><http://web.me.com/drjazz>http://web.me.com/drjazz
>
>Poetry Library:
><http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html>http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html
>==========================================
>
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>New-Poetry mailing list
>New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry

Announcing The Whole Island: Six Decades of Cuban Poetry (University 
of California Press).
Forthcoming in November 2009.
http://go.ucpress.edu/WholeIsland





From Rsgwynn1 at cs.com  Sun Dec 13 12:54:43 2009
From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com (Rsgwynn1 at cs.com)
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 2009 12:54:43 EST
Subject: [New-Poetry] Thought for the day
Message-ID: <cb1.51f62e97.38568463@cs.com>

"It's quite serious, this shortage of obscure poets."

                   Barbara Pym
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From grahamd at ripon.edu  Sun Dec 13 12:55:20 2009
From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham)
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 2009 11:55:20 -0600
Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Elderly Poets
In-Reply-To: <4b65c2d70912130946p3da6c017n89d797203b136e4a@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4b65c2d70912130946p3da6c017n89d797203b136e4a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <EF5403A1-9C1C-477C-9F9E-F5FFBA9EB317@ripon.edu>




On Dec 13, 2009, at 11:46 AM, Anny Ballardini wrote:

> What I wish to make clear is that I revere elderly poets and I think they should be by any country that professes a civilized culture. 
==================

I don't admire equally all the octogenarian poets I named, but I very much admire persistence in the art, yes.  And I appreciate the steady-as-she-goes craft of a Hardy or a Wilbur just as much as I relish the shape-shifting experimentation of a Yeats or a W. C. Williams.

Mostly I was struck by the demographics of the era we live in.  Not only more poetry out there than ever before (of all stripes), but more poets remaining productive and creative well into old age.  Has there ever been anything similar historically?  Perhaps in ancient China?-- though "old" was a different matter then. . . .


========================================
David Graham
grahamd at ripon.edu

Home Page:
http://web.me.com/drjazz

Poetry Library:
http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html
==========================================


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From junction at earthlink.net  Sun Dec 13 13:04:53 2009
From: junction at earthlink.net (Mark Weiss)
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 2009 13:04:53 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Mainstreamery
In-Reply-To: <1541827783.4587081260725946572.JavaMail.root@sz0153a.emery
	ville.ca.mail.comcast.net>
References: <BFF7C753-7DED-4911-806F-70FC4BD63428@ripon.edu>
	<1541827783.4587081260725946572.JavaMail.root@sz0153a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>
Message-ID: <E1NJsoV-00077w-HH@elasmtp-scoter.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

I think you've misunderstood what I'm saying.The few who read poetry 
for pleasure and not as a profession are, as you say, very busy, and 
they rely on what's put forward by the critics and anthologists. 
Perhaps the non-professional audience would be resistant to other 
than what they get now, but we won't know, as long as much of the 
professional reading class insists on remaining ignorant of what else 
is going on.

Case in point: at a recent conference I was seated across the table 
from a woman who directs an important poetry reading series. I 
mentioned a few names, the A list in my world. She'd heard of them, 
but never read so much as a single word.

At 12:39 PM 12/13/2009, you wrote:
>The fact is most people don't have the time and mental energy to 
>read a broad range of literature. They are working and dealing with 
>life, family, maybe trying to figure out some of the immense 
>problems facing the world. Mainstream literature is accessible and 
>perhaps useful to many people and therefore has as much value as 
>anything else. If you want you can write more mainstream material 
>and so sell more or get more notice. I write what I like to write, 
>and actually I would love for other people to be interested in my 
>work, but I won't change what I write to suit others so don't expect 
>others to change their reading habits to suit my taste.
>There is a reason why Ron Paul or Ralph Nader or any other fringe 
>politician will not be president, because they refuse to compromise 
>their values for votes. Borack Obama, George Bush, Bill Clinton and 
>anyone else who became president moved toward a middle position at 
>least a little, or pretended to do so, in order for the moderate 
>middle to accept them. The same goes for literature. If you want to 
>gain an audience, you have to write for that audience. Maybe like 
>Obama, you can be intelligent about it and shift things gradually in 
>ways that reflect your values, but you can't expect people to jump 
>off a cliff for you, especially when they have to work hard to 
>understand your message.
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "David Graham" <grahamd at ripon.edu>
>To: "new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu &amp; Views" <new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
>Sent: Sunday, December 13, 2009 8:39:19 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific
>Subject: [New-Poetry] Mainstreamery
>
>On Dec 12, 2009, at 7:05 PM, Mark Weiss wrote:
>
>The degree to which the mainstream remains unaware of the rest is 
>utterly astonishing, and utterly tiresome.
>
>========================
>
>Tiresome, OK.  But why astonishing?   By any reasonable definition 
>of the word, "mainstream" surely means "most people who read/write 
>poetry," doesn't it?  (Itself a tiny subset of the literate public 
>in this country, evidently.)  I may not enjoy the fact that Brad 
>Paisley sells more records than John Prine, but I'm hardly surprised.
>
>As for tiresome, well, don't get me started.
>
>
>========================================
>David Graham
><mailto:grahamd at ripon.edu>grahamd at ripon.edu
>
>Home Page:
><http://web.me.com/drjazz>http://web.me.com/drjazz
>
>Poetry Library:
><http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html>http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html
>==========================================
>
>
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing 
>list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu 
>http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>_______________________________________________
>New-Poetry mailing list
>New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry

Announcing The Whole Island: Six Decades of Cuban Poetry (University 
of California Press).
Forthcoming in November 2009.
http://go.ucpress.edu/WholeIsland





From anny.ballardini at gmail.com  Sun Dec 13 15:48:55 2009
From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 2009 21:48:55 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] from today's Almanac
Message-ID: <4b65c2d70912131248i527e4a1dv6c3da145a148d6d8@mail.gmail.com>

 Suits

by David R. Slavitt<http://www.elabs7.com/c.html?rtr=on&s=fj6,jj5w,dv,a5il,k23u,3hrs,fxvj>

Each morning, as I confront my closet's array,
I have to admit again that the life I lead
is hardly good enough: I have not been named
ambassador to Malta; I am not on the board

of any college or large corporation; I shall not
receive a major prize today and pose
for photographers. Those suits, the shirts, the ties
are ready, but I am not, and the shoes are shined

as they wait for different occasions than I imagined
on the tailor's block, when I shopped for a dandified
future brighter than what I expect or deserve.
Even for weddings and funerals that require
a suit, I choose from the second best, reserving
that one for the dream into which I yet hope to awake.

"Suits" by David R. Slavitt, from *William Henry Harrison and Other Poems*.
? Louisiana State University Press, 2006. Reprinted with permission. (buy
now <http://www.elabs7.com/c.html?rtr=on&s=fj6,jj5w,dv,73gi,n1j,3hrs,fxvj>)


-- 
Anny Ballardini
http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078
http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html
I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing
star!
Friedrich Nietzsche

? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique
vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ?
Giovenale
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From jbalizsprince at googlemail.com  Sun Dec 13 17:26:07 2009
From: jbalizsprince at googlemail.com (Judy Prince)
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 2009 17:26:07 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Robin Hamilton's _Anacreon_ reviewed in SPHINX
Message-ID: <7db1d01b0912131426i6b79b75esd4a831beab996603@mail.gmail.com>

I'm purely pleased to let you know that Robin Hamilton's _Anacreon_ poetry
pamphlet [Frisky Moll Press, 2009] has been reviewed in SPHINX [HappenStance
Press]:
http://happenstancepress.co.uk/joomla/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=278&Itemid=48

Best,

Judy
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From uche at ogbuji.net  Sun Dec 13 17:41:27 2009
From: uche at ogbuji.net (Uche Ogbuji)
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 2009 15:41:27 -0700
Subject: [New-Poetry] Barbara Louise Ungar feature on The Nervous Breakdown
Message-ID: <d116fbae0912131441g4501d066n4ba90c53b5e1c8e9@mail.gmail.com>

The first TNB poetry section feature I've edited is up today:

http://www.thenervousbreakdown.com/category/poetry

Barbara Louise Ungar's poem "Rosemary?s Divorce" and her self-Interview.

-- 
Uche Ogbuji                       http://uche.ogbuji.net
Founding Partner, Zepheira        http://zepheira.com
Linked-in profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/ucheogbuji
Articles: http://uche.ogbuji.net/tech/publications/
TNB: http://www.thenervousbreakdown.com/author/uogbuji/
Friendfeed: http://friendfeed.com/uche
Twitter: http://twitter.com/uogbuji
http://www.google.com/profiles/uche.ogbuji



From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net  Sun Dec 13 18:25:26 2009
From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman)
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 2009 18:25:26 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Mainstreamery
In-Reply-To: <E1NJsdr-00032y-KW@elasmtp-dupuy.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
References: <BFF7C753-7DED-4911-806F-70FC4BD63428@ripon.edu>
	<E1NJsdr-00032y-KW@elasmtp-dupuy.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <4B2577E6.106@nut-n-but.net>


> I'm not aware that Vendler has made the same effort in reading, say, 
> Jack Spicer.
Gad, sir, are you suggesting she isn't even a full-scale Wilshberian!?

--Bob



From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net  Sun Dec 13 18:35:51 2009
From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman)
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 2009 18:35:51 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Mainstreamery
In-Reply-To: <E1NJsoV-00077w-HH@elasmtp-scoter.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
References: <BFF7C753-7DED-4911-806F-70FC4BD63428@ripon.edu><1541827783.4587081260725946572.JavaMail.root@sz0153a.emeryville.ca.m
	ail.comcast.net>
	<E1NJsoV-00077w-HH@elasmtp-scoter.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <4B257A57.2020706@nut-n-but.net>


> Case in point: at a recent conference I was seated across the table 
> from a woman who directs an important poetry reading series. I 
> mentioned a few names, the A list in my world. She'd heard of them, 
> but never read so much as a single word.
It's not that people you would think would be conversant with a 
reasonably wide span of poetry haven't read the work of certain poets, 
but that they haven't read certain POETRIES, and aren't bothered that 
they haven't.  I'm sure I haven't read all your A poets, perhaps not 
even many of them, but I'm sure I've read and otherwise experienced all 
the kinds of poetry your A poets have composed, and very likely other kinds.

The problem isn't popularity with readers of mainstream poetry, but the 
simple notice of the people who can get one published visibly enough to 
get a grant or prize, like the oldsters have gotten five or ten times each.

--Bob



From mykelmarsh at comcast.net  Sun Dec 13 19:08:39 2009
From: mykelmarsh at comcast.net (mykelmarsh at comcast.net)
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 2009 00:08:39 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [New-Poetry] Mainstreamery
In-Reply-To: <E1NJsoV-00077w-HH@elasmtp-scoter.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <1689080880.4681901260749319387.JavaMail.root@sz0153a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>

I agree. People who disseminate literature should be aware of the range and quality of what is available. If you set yourself up as an expert on a subject, then you should be able to provide quality examples of entire breadth of poetry. If you are simply turning out popular volumes of accessible poetry, and have no other aim then that is alright and serves a purpose. But, if you are set up on the edge anyway, you should go at it with some passion and take risks. People who read a broad range of poetry will most likely appreciate it, and if they don't especially take to the unfamiliar material, it will certainly spark debate. And to my mind debate is always good as long as its civil. 
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Mark Weiss" <junction at earthlink.net> 
To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &amp; Views" <new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu> 
Sent: Sunday, December 13, 2009 10:04:53 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific 
Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Mainstreamery 

I think you've misunderstood what I'm saying.The few who read poetry 
for pleasure and not as a profession are, as you say, very busy, and 
they rely on what's put forward by the critics and anthologists. 
Perhaps the non-professional audience would be resistant to other 
than what they get now, but we won't know, as long as much of the 
professional reading class insists on remaining ignorant of what else 
is going on. 

Case in point: at a recent conference I was seated across the table 
from a woman who directs an important poetry reading series. I 
mentioned a few names, the A list in my world. She'd heard of them, 
but never read so much as a single word. 

At 12:39 PM 12/13/2009, you wrote: 
>The fact is most people don't have the time and mental energy to 
>read a broad range of literature. They are working and dealing with 
>life, family, maybe trying to figure out some of the immense 
>problems facing the world. Mainstream literature is accessible and 
>perhaps useful to many people and therefore has as much value as 
>anything else. If you want you can write more mainstream material 
>and so sell more or get more notice. I write what I like to write, 
>and actually I would love for other people to be interested in my 
>work, but I won't change what I write to suit others so don't expect 
>others to change their reading habits to suit my taste. 
>There is a reason why Ron Paul or Ralph Nader or any other fringe 
>politician will not be president, because they refuse to compromise 
>their values for votes. Borack Obama, George Bush, Bill Clinton and 
>anyone else who became president moved toward a middle position at 
>least a little, or pretended to do so, in order for the moderate 
>middle to accept them. The same goes for literature. If you want to 
>gain an audience, you have to write for that audience. Maybe like 
>Obama, you can be intelligent about it and shift things gradually in 
>ways that reflect your values, but you can't expect people to jump 
>off a cliff for you, especially when they have to work hard to 
>understand your message. 
>----- Original Message ----- 
>From: "David Graham" <grahamd at ripon.edu> 
>To: "new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu &amp; Views" <new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu> 
>Sent: Sunday, December 13, 2009 8:39:19 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific 
>Subject: [New-Poetry] Mainstreamery 
> 
>On Dec 12, 2009, at 7:05 PM, Mark Weiss wrote: 
> 
>The degree to which the mainstream remains unaware of the rest is 
>utterly astonishing, and utterly tiresome. 
> 
>======================== 
> 
>Tiresome, OK. But why astonishing? By any reasonable definition 
>of the word, "mainstream" surely means "most people who read/write 
>poetry," doesn't it? (Itself a tiny subset of the literate public 
>in this country, evidently.) I may not enjoy the fact that Brad 
>Paisley sells more records than John Prine, but I'm hardly surprised. 
> 
>As for tiresome, well, don't get me started. 
> 
> 
>======================================== 
>David Graham 
><mailto:grahamd at ripon.edu>grahamd at ripon.edu 
> 
>Home Page: 
><http://web.me.com/drjazz>http://web.me.com/drjazz 
> 
>Poetry Library: 
><http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html>http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html 
>========================================== 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>_______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing 
>list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu 
>http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry 
>_______________________________________________ 
>New-Poetry mailing list 
>New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu 
>http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry 

Announcing The Whole Island: Six Decades of Cuban Poetry (University 
of California Press). 
Forthcoming in November 2009. 
http://go.ucpress.edu/WholeIsland 



_______________________________________________ 
New-Poetry mailing list 
New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu 
http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry 
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From jforjames at aol.com  Sun Dec 13 19:14:41 2009
From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 2009 19:14:41 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] David Schubert
Message-ID: <8CC4A6990B277D5-521C-9F3@webmail-m028.sysops.aol.com>


Nice post by John Latta re a forgotten poet, David Schubert...
http://isola-di-rifiuti.blogspot.com/
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From jforjames at aol.com  Sun Dec 13 20:02:16 2009
From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 2009 20:02:16 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: Raymond Queneau's "For an Ars Poetica"
In-Reply-To: <C74AB436.238C%guy.bennett@sbcglobal.net>
References: <C74AB436.238C%guy.bennett@sbcglobal.net>
Message-ID: <8CC4A7036659607-521C-12A8@webmail-m028.sysops.aol.com>


Sent: Sun, Dec 13, 2009 6:09 pm
Subject: Raymond Queneau's "For an Ars Poetica"


Dear Reader,

Raymond Queneau?s For an Ars Poetica is just out from Mindmade Books. 

Originally published in 1952, this collection of eleven poems by the co-founder of the Oulipo is not so much a how-to for the language arts as a how-to to a how-to. With his characteristic mixing of stylistic registers and his irreverent use of traditional versificaton (not to mention of the ars poetica itself), in For an Ars Poetica Queneau foregoes the rules of poetry writing in favor of writing about writing poetry and poems. This is a bilingual edition with translations from the French by Guy Bennett.

For an Ars Poetica is available as part of Mindmade Books? 2009 series, which also includes work by Dawn Michelle Baude, David Lloyd, and Stephanie Rioux. If you would like to purchase these titles, you can do so from the Mindmade Books website or simply by replying to this message. If you have already done so ? thank you! ? and my apologies for this note.

Best regards,

Guy Bennett
www.mindmadebooks.com


N.B. If you have received this note in error or would like to be removed from our list, please respond to this message with ?Remove me? as the subject. 

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From c.a.b.daly at gmail.com  Sun Dec 13 20:29:41 2009
From: c.a.b.daly at gmail.com (Catherine Daly)
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 2009 17:29:41 -0800
Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Elderly Poets
In-Reply-To: <EF5403A1-9C1C-477C-9F9E-F5FFBA9EB317@ripon.edu>
References: <4b65c2d70912130946p3da6c017n89d797203b136e4a@mail.gmail.com>
	<EF5403A1-9C1C-477C-9F9E-F5FFBA9EB317@ripon.edu>
Message-ID: <f3cd389f0912131729q54701632tb1e28766f82616b2@mail.gmail.com>

number of poets living to a ripe age and *not* continuing to write? --
I can't think of any offhand, other than laura riding

-- 
All best,
Catherine Daly
c.a.b.daly at gmail.com


From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net  Sun Dec 13 21:21:13 2009
From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman)
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 2009 21:21:13 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Mainstreamery
In-Reply-To: <1689080880.4681901260749319387.JavaMail.root@sz0153a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>
References: <1689080880.4681901260749319387.JavaMail.root@sz0153a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>
Message-ID: <4B25A119.4020306@nut-n-but.net>

mykelmarsh at comcast.net wrote:
> I agree. People who disseminate literature should be aware of the 
> range and quality of what is available. If you set yourself up as an 
> expert on a subject, then you should be able to provide quality 
> examples of entire breadth of poetry. If you are simply turning out 
> popular volumes of accessible poetry, and have no other aim then that 
> is alright and serves a purpose. But, if you are set up on the edge 
> anyway, you should go at it with some passion and take risks. People 
> who read a broad range of poetry will most likely appreciate it, and 
> if they don't especially take to the unfamiliar material, it will 
> certainly spark debate. And to my mind debate is always good as long 
> as its civil.
Aah, it's a lot better if it's uncivil.  Candor brings out the best in 
the best, although it has the opposite effect on mediocrities, whose 
vulnerability to words is much greater than their deftness with ideas 
and overwhelms it.

--Bob


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From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net  Sun Dec 13 21:30:51 2009
From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman)
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 2009 21:30:51 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Elderly Poets
In-Reply-To: <f3cd389f0912131729q54701632tb1e28766f82616b2@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4b65c2d70912130946p3da6c017n89d797203b136e4a@mail.gmail.com><EF5403A1-9C1C-477C-9F9E-F5FFBA9EB317@ripon.edu>
	<f3cd389f0912131729q54701632tb1e28766f82616b2@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4B25A35B.2060905@nut-n-but.net>

Catherine Daly wrote:
> number of poets living to a ripe age and *not* continuing to write? --
> I can't think of any offhand, other than laura riding
>   
Pound?

--Bob



From junction at earthlink.net  Mon Dec 14 00:07:06 2009
From: junction at earthlink.net (Mark Weiss)
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 2009 00:07:06 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Elderly Poets
In-Reply-To: <4B25A35B.2060905@nut-n-but.net>
References: <4b65c2d70912130946p3da6c017n89d797203b136e4a@mail.gmail.com>
	<EF5403A1-9C1C-477C-9F9E-F5FFBA9EB317@ripon.edu>
	<f3cd389f0912131729q54701632tb1e28766f82616b2@mail.gmail.com>
	<4B25A35B.2060905@nut-n-but.net>
Message-ID: <E1NK39O-0000ny-PS@elasmtp-masked.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

Catherine's right, except for the one third of the very old who 
suffer dementia. Pound was among them. As was Oppen.

I knew Reznikoff in his old age. Sharp as a tack and writing like 
crazy, right up to the end. Nathaniel Tarn is I think eighty now, 
Jerry Rothenberg and Gerrit Lansing a couple of years short of that, 
all writing as if their lives depended on it (tho Gerrit's no more 
prolific than he's ever been). Robert Kelly I think is 75 this year 
and continues his ridiculous pace. How old is Alice Notley? Fanny 
Howe is in her mid seventies.

Basically, more of us live longer. If we haven't been olympic 
athletes we tend to continue to do what we've always felt compelled to do.

At 09:30 PM 12/13/2009, you wrote:
>Catherine Daly wrote:
>>number of poets living to a ripe age and *not* continuing to write? --
>>I can't think of any offhand, other than laura riding
>>
>Pound?
>
>--Bob
>
>_______________________________________________
>New-Poetry mailing list
>New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry

Announcing The Whole Island: Six Decades of Cuban Poetry (University 
of California Press).
Forthcoming in November 2009.
http://go.ucpress.edu/WholeIsland





From david.bircumshaw at ntlworld.com  Mon Dec 14 01:36:05 2009
From: david.bircumshaw at ntlworld.com (David Bircumshaw)
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 2009 06:36:05 -0000
Subject: [New-Poetry] Mainstreamery
References: <BFF7C753-7DED-4911-806F-70FC4BD63428@ripon.edu>
	<E1NJsdr-00032y-KW@elasmtp-dupuy.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <0661C74C24B9456594E4AF152DCC6075@SN037832120162>

In the UK it's quite common to come across people who are actively involved 
in poetry and will make it something like a boast that they don't know (and 
don't want to know) about poetry outside the mainstream. This in turn 
reinforces tendencies towards becoming an unself-critical insiders club in 
the non-mainstream.

David Bircumshaw
Website: http://www.staplednapkin.org.uk
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Mark Weiss" <junction at earthlink.net>
To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &amp;Views" 
<new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
Sent: Sunday, December 13, 2009 5:52 PM
Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Mainstreamery


> It's not a question of what sells, but the responsibility of an 
> intellectual and student of the art. Far more Latin Americans enjoy the 
> sentimental and easy Jaime Sabines, but all poetry readers and critics are 
> aware of Lezama Lima, who's neither, and they would be considered idiots 
> if they weren't. In my Cuban anthology I include a lot of poetry that I 
> think is the best and most representative of its kind, which doesn't 
> always mean that I'd seek out those poets for my private reading. 
> Awareness doesn't mean love, but it should be part of the job description. 
> I don't understand the fuss about Elizabeth Bishop, but I've read all of 
> her poetry several times (not the posthumous book, tho. I'll get to it) in 
> an effort to understand. I'm not aware that Vendler has made the same 
> effort in reading, say, Jack Spicer.
>
> What I'm saying is that the walls separating ways of thinking are 
> unusually strong in the US and UK. Maybe this goes beyond the arts as 
> well.
>
> At 11:39 AM 12/13/2009, you wrote:
>>On Dec 12, 2009, at 7:05 PM, Mark Weiss wrote:
>>
>>>The degree to which the mainstream remains unaware of the rest is utterly 
>>>astonishing, and utterly tiresome.
>>========================
>>
>>Tiresome, OK.  But why astonishing?   By any reasonable definition of the 
>>word, "mainstream" surely means "most people who read/write poetry," 
>>doesn't it?  (Itself a tiny subset of the literate public in this country, 
>>evidently.)  I may not enjoy the fact that Brad Paisley sells more records 
>>than John Prine, but I'm hardly surprised.
>>
>>As for tiresome, well, don't get me started.
>>
>>
>>========================================
>>David Graham
>><mailto:grahamd at ripon.edu>grahamd at ripon.edu
>>
>>Home Page:
>><http://web.me.com/drjazz>http://web.me.com/drjazz
>>
>>Poetry Library:
>><http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html>http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html
>>==========================================
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>New-Poetry mailing list
>>New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>>http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
> Announcing The Whole Island: Six Decades of Cuban Poetry (University of 
> California Press).
> Forthcoming in November 2009.
> http://go.ucpress.edu/WholeIsland
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
> 




From jbalizsprince at googlemail.com  Mon Dec 14 06:19:17 2009
From: jbalizsprince at googlemail.com (Judy Prince)
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 2009 06:19:17 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Barbara Louise Ungar feature on The Nervous 
	Breakdown
In-Reply-To: <d116fbae0912131441g4501d066n4ba90c53b5e1c8e9@mail.gmail.com>
References: <d116fbae0912131441g4501d066n4ba90c53b5e1c8e9@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7db1d01b0912140319j1d9c544l2ea6c82685f6fffe@mail.gmail.com>

Congratulations, Uche!  'Twould be hard to top [so to speak] her photo.

Best,

Judy

2009/12/13 Uche Ogbuji <uche at ogbuji.net>

> The first TNB poetry section feature I've edited is up today:
>
> http://www.thenervousbreakdown.com/category/poetry
>
> Barbara Louise Ungar's poem "Rosemary?s Divorce" and her self-Interview.
>
> --
> Uche Ogbuji                       http://uche.ogbuji.net
> Founding Partner, Zepheira        http://zepheira.com
> Linked-in profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/ucheogbuji
> Articles: http://uche.ogbuji.net/tech/publications/
> TNB: http://www.thenervousbreakdown.com/author/uogbuji/
> Friendfeed: http://friendfeed.com/uche
> Twitter: http://twitter.com/uogbuji
> http://www.google.com/profiles/uche.ogbuji
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
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From halvard at gmail.com  Mon Dec 14 12:24:58 2009
From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson)
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 2009 11:24:58 -0600
Subject: [New-Poetry] Mainstreamery
In-Reply-To: <0661C74C24B9456594E4AF152DCC6075@SN037832120162>
References: <BFF7C753-7DED-4911-806F-70FC4BD63428@ripon.edu>
	<E1NJsdr-00032y-KW@elasmtp-dupuy.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
	<0661C74C24B9456594E4AF152DCC6075@SN037832120162>
Message-ID: <f160a1210912140924u3e5de340rfb0feb449b54754d@mail.gmail.com>

Not to mention smug self-satisfaction in the mainstream?

Hal

"We don't serve fine wine in half-pints, buddy."
                  --Robert Ashley

Halvard Johnson
================
halvard at gmail.com
http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home
http://entropyandme.blogspot.com
http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com
http://www.hamiltonstone.org


On Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 12:36 AM, David Bircumshaw <
david.bircumshaw at ntlworld.com> wrote:

> In the UK it's quite common to come across people who are actively involved
> in poetry and will make it something like a boast that they don't know (and
> don't want to know) about poetry outside the mainstream. This in turn
> reinforces tendencies towards becoming an unself-critical insiders club in
> the non-mainstream.
>
> David Bircumshaw
> Website: http://www.staplednapkin.org.uk
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Weiss" <junction at earthlink.net>
> To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &amp;Views" <
> new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
> Sent: Sunday, December 13, 2009 5:52 PM
>
> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Mainstreamery
>
>
>  It's not a question of what sells, but the responsibility of an
>> intellectual and student of the art. Far more Latin Americans enjoy the
>> sentimental and easy Jaime Sabines, but all poetry readers and critics are
>> aware of Lezama Lima, who's neither, and they would be considered idiots if
>> they weren't. In my Cuban anthology I include a lot of poetry that I think
>> is the best and most representative of its kind, which doesn't always mean
>> that I'd seek out those poets for my private reading. Awareness doesn't mean
>> love, but it should be part of the job description. I don't understand the
>> fuss about Elizabeth Bishop, but I've read all of her poetry several times
>> (not the posthumous book, tho. I'll get to it) in an effort to understand.
>> I'm not aware that Vendler has made the same effort in reading, say, Jack
>> Spicer.
>>
>> What I'm saying is that the walls separating ways of thinking are
>> unusually strong in the US and UK. Maybe this goes beyond the arts as well.
>>
>>
>> At 11:39 AM 12/13/2009, you wrote:
>>
>>> On Dec 12, 2009, at 7:05 PM, Mark Weiss wrote:
>>>
>>>  The degree to which the mainstream remains unaware of the rest is
>>>> utterly astonishing, and utterly tiresome.
>>>>
>>> ========================
>>>
>>> Tiresome, OK.  But why astonishing?   By any reasonable definition of the
>>> word, "mainstream" surely means "most people who read/write poetry," doesn't
>>> it?  (Itself a tiny subset of the literate public in this country,
>>> evidently.)  I may not enjoy the fact that Brad Paisley sells more records
>>> than John Prine, but I'm hardly surprised.
>>>
>>> As for tiresome, well, don't get me started.
>>>
>>>
>>> ========================================
>>> David Graham
>>> <mailto:grahamd at ripon.edu>grahamd at ripon.edu
>>>
>>> Home Page:
>>> <http://web.me.com/drjazz>http://web.me.com/drjazz
>>>
>>> Poetry Library:
>>> <http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html>
>>> http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html
>>> ==========================================
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> New-Poetry mailing list
>>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>>>
>>
>> Announcing The Whole Island: Six Decades of Cuban Poetry (University of
>> California Press).
>> Forthcoming in November 2009.
>> http://go.ucpress.edu/WholeIsland
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> New-Poetry mailing list
>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
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From c.a.b.daly at gmail.com  Mon Dec 14 12:59:53 2009
From: c.a.b.daly at gmail.com (Catherine Daly)
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 2009 09:59:53 -0800
Subject: [New-Poetry] Cocktails for the Holiday
In-Reply-To: <f3cd389f0912140959w1d8e4c24iffa098f6264a04b7@mail.gmail.com>
References: <f3cd389f0912140959w1d8e4c24iffa098f6264a04b7@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <f3cd389f0912140959x15ea060ex5b20e0e656d6ed29@mail.gmail.com>

There are still about a dozen copies of my chapbook COCKTAIL available
from furnture press/Christophe Casamassima. ?Makes a great party
gift!!!

Also, a pretty interesting poem series linking Vauxhall, DaDaDa, and
the forthcoming OOD: ?Object-Oriented Design stylistically.

--
All best,
Catherine Daly
c.a.b.daly at gmail.com



-- 
All best,
Catherine Daly
c.a.b.daly at gmail.com



From jforjames at aol.com  Mon Dec 14 14:41:15 2009
From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 2009 14:41:15 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Mainstreamery
In-Reply-To: <E1NJsdr-00032y-KW@elasmtp-dupuy.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
References: <BFF7C753-7DED-4911-806F-70FC4BD63428@ripon.edu>
	<E1NJsdr-00032y-KW@elasmtp-dupuy.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <8CC4B0C889942BA-62A4-E92@webmail-m055.sysops.aol.com>


Unless I had a chance to directly query her re Spicer's work or had the opportunity to peruse her personal library, I wouldn't assume Vendler hasn't read Spicer just because she hasn't written about him. My guess is she's read him...at least a selection. When it comes comes to whom one writes about critically, there is the matter of engagement (Spicer may not be her cup of tea) and career management (for an academic critic) comes into play.
Finnegan


-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Weiss <junction at earthlink.net>
Sent: Sun, Dec 13, 2009 12:52 pm
Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Mainstreamery


It's not a question of what sells, but the responsibility of an intellectual and student of the art. Far more Latin Americans enjoy the sentimental and easy Jaime Sabines, but all poetry readers and critics are aware of Lezama Lima, who's neither, and they would be considered idiots if they weren't. In my Cuban anthology I include a lot of poetry that I think is the best and most representative of its kind, which doesn't always mean that I'd seek out those poets for my private reading. Awareness doesn't mean love, but it should be part of the job description. I don't understand the fuss about Elizabeth Bishop, but I've read all of her poetry several times (not the posthumous book, tho. I'll get to it) in an effort to understand. I'm not aware that Vendler has made the same effort in reading, say, Jack Spicer. 
 
What I'm saying is that the walls separating ways of thinking are unusually strong in the US and UK. Maybe this goes beyond the arts as well. 
 
At 11:39 AM 12/13/2009, you wrote: 
>On Dec 12, 2009, at 7:05 PM, Mark Weiss wrote: 
> 
>>The degree to which the mainstream remains unaware of the rest is >>utterly astonishing, and utterly tiresome. 
>======================== 
> 
>Tiresome, OK. But why astonishing? By any reasonable definition >of the word, "mainstream" surely means "most people who read/write >poetry," doesn't it? (Itself a tiny subset of the literate public >in this country, evidently.) I may not enjoy the fact that Brad >Paisley sells more records than John Prine, but I'm hardly surprised. 
> 
>As for tiresome, well, don't get me started. 
> 
> 
>======================================== 
>David Graham 
><mailto:grahamd at ripon.edu>grahamd at ripon.edu 
> 
>Home Page: 
><http://web.me.com/drjazz>http://web.me.com/drjazz 
> 
>Poetry Library: 
><http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html>http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html 
>========================================== 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>_______________________________________________ 
>New-Poetry mailing list 
>New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu 
>http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry 
 
Announcing The Whole Island: Six Decades of Cuban Poetry (University of California Press). 
Forthcoming in November 2009. 
http://go.ucpress.edu/WholeIsland 
 
 
_______________________________________________ 
New-Poetry mailing list 
New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu 
http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry 

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From almaginnes at aol.com  Mon Dec 14 14:43:36 2009
From: almaginnes at aol.com (almaginnes at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 2009 14:43:36 EST
Subject: [New-Poetry] Mainstreamery
Message-ID: <10ae3.16d6d069.3857ef68@aol.com>

True enough although one would think that at this stage of the game Vendler 
 could write about whoever she pleased. I think it's more likely that 
Spicer  isn't up her alley. But her alley seems to be a rather narrow space, even 
from  my admittedly mainstream view.
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From msullivan at metrocast.net  Mon Dec 14 15:03:12 2009
From: msullivan at metrocast.net (SULLIVAN)
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 2009 15:03:12 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Winter Issue of The Tower Journal
Message-ID: <B6BE826B3B02467EA7EEEB6D90409020@MaryAnnPC>

The Winter Issue of The Tower Journal is now online at:
http://www.towerjournal.com

Featuring the poetry of Canadian, Paulette Turcotte along with poetry by Lewis Turco, Maria Clara Roque Esteves, Ed Curtis, Centa Theresa, Jack Foley, Jasmine Mann, Louis Gallo, Dan Ames, Jeanpierre Paringaux, laurent Herrou, Charles Robert Hice, Dirk van Nouhuys, Anita Johnson, Christopher Mulrooney, DOnal Mahoney, Brian Zimmer and Alex Chrnyj.  The issue also features the photography of Stasja Voluti, the artwork of Anne Niedlispacher and Lancillotto Bellini, and the Flash Fiction of Marja Hagborg.  Poetry Books of Ana Bozicevic, Amy King, Jee Leong Koh and Ruth Lepson are reviewed.

Enjoy !

Mary Ann Sullivan

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From junction at earthlink.net  Mon Dec 14 15:10:23 2009
From: junction at earthlink.net (Mark Weiss)
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 2009 15:10:23 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Mainstreamery
In-Reply-To: <8CC4B0C889942BA-62A4-E92@webmail-m055.sysops.aol.com>
References: <BFF7C753-7DED-4911-806F-70FC4BD63428@ripon.edu>
	<E1NJsdr-00032y-KW@elasmtp-dupuy.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
	<8CC4B0C889942BA-62A4-E92@webmail-m055.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <E1NKHFX-0003yB-7M@elasmtp-dupuy.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

As far as I know she's never so much as mentioned a non-mainstream 
poet. But assuming that context matters, it's hard to understand how 
she could deal with, say, Lowell without a major investment in 
Ginsberg. It's rather like an ecologist who's not aware that a 
biosphere is interactive.

At 02:41 PM 12/14/2009, you wrote:
>Unless I had a chance to directly query her re Spicer's work or had 
>the opportunity to peruse her personal library, I wouldn't assume 
>Vendler hasn't read Spicer just because she hasn't written about 
>him. My guess is she's read him...at least a selection. When it 
>comes comes to whom one writes about critically, there is the matter 
>of engagement (Spicer may not be her cup of tea) and career 
>management (for an academic critic) comes into play.
>Finnegan
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Mark Weiss <junction at earthlink.net>
>Sent: Sun, Dec 13, 2009 12:52 pm
>Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Mainstreamery
>
>It's not a question of what sells, but the responsibility of an 
>intellectual and student of the art. Far more Latin Americans enjoy 
>the sentimental and easy Jaime Sabines, but all poetry readers and 
>critics are aware of Lezama Lima, who's neither, and they would be 
>considered idiots if they weren't. In my Cuban anthology I include a 
>lot of poetry that I think is the best and most representative of 
>its kind, which doesn't always mean that I'd seek out those poets 
>for my private reading. Awareness doesn't mean love, but it should 
>be part of the job description. I don't understand the fuss about 
>Elizabeth Bishop, but I've read all of her poetry several times (not 
>the posthumous book, tho. I'll get to it) in an effort to 
>understand. I'm not aware that Vendler has made the same effort in 
>reading, say, Jack Spicer.
>
>What I'm saying is that the walls separating ways of thinking are 
>unusually strong in the US and UK. Maybe this goes beyond the arts as well.
>
>At 11:39 AM 12/13/2009, you wrote:
> >On Dec 12, 2009, at 7:05 PM, Mark Weiss wrote:
> >
> >>The degree to which the mainstream remains unaware of the rest 
> is >>utterly astonishing, and utterly tiresome.
> >========================
> >
> >Tiresome, OK. But why astonishing? By any reasonable 
> definition >of the word, "mainstream" surely means "most people who 
> read/write >poetry," doesn't it? (Itself a tiny subset of the 
> literate public >in this country, evidently.) I may not enjoy the 
> fact that Brad >Paisley sells more records than John Prine, but I'm 
> hardly surprised.
> >
> >As for tiresome, well, don't get me started.
> >
> >
> >========================================
> >David Graham
> ><<mailto:grahamd at ripon.edu%3Egrahamd at ripon.edu?>mailto:grahamd at ripo 
> n.edu>grahamd at ripon.edu
> >
> >Home Page:
> ><<http://web.me.com/drjazz%3Ehttp://web.me.com/drjazz>http://web.me 
> .com/drjazz>http://web.me.com/drjazz
> >
> >Poetry Library:
> ><<http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html%3Ehttp://web.me.co 
> m/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html>http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html>http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html 
>
> >==========================================
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >New-Poetry mailing list
> ><mailto:New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
>Announcing The Whole Island: Six Decades of Cuban Poetry (University 
>of California Press).
>Forthcoming in November 2009.
><http://go.ucpress.edu/WholeIsland>http://go.ucpress.edu/WholeIsland
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>New-Poetry mailing list
><mailto:New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>_______________________________________________
>New-Poetry mailing list
>New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry

Announcing The Whole Island: Six Decades of Cuban Poetry (University 
of California Press).
Forthcoming in November 2009.
http://go.ucpress.edu/WholeIsland





From skip at louisiana.edu  Mon Dec 14 15:21:22 2009
From: skip at louisiana.edu (Skip Fox)
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 2009 14:21:22 -0600
Subject: [New-Poetry] Mainstreamery
In-Reply-To: <E1NKHFX-0003yB-7M@elasmtp-dupuy.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <3F65B30A3C104F2597166372BAEF4D4C@win.louisiana.edu>

I was surprised she included Ginsberg in the Harvard anthology.

-----Original Message-----
From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu
[mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Mark Weiss
Sent: Monday, December 14, 2009 2:10 PM
To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &amp;Views
Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Mainstreamery

As far as I know she's never so much as mentioned a non-mainstream 
poet. But assuming that context matters, it's hard to understand how 
she could deal with, say, Lowell without a major investment in 
Ginsberg. It's rather like an ecologist who's not aware that a 
biosphere is interactive.

At 02:41 PM 12/14/2009, you wrote:
>Unless I had a chance to directly query her re Spicer's work or had 
>the opportunity to peruse her personal library, I wouldn't assume 
>Vendler hasn't read Spicer just because she hasn't written about 
>him. My guess is she's read him...at least a selection. When it 
>comes comes to whom one writes about critically, there is the matter 
>of engagement (Spicer may not be her cup of tea) and career 
>management (for an academic critic) comes into play.
>Finnegan
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Mark Weiss <junction at earthlink.net>
>Sent: Sun, Dec 13, 2009 12:52 pm
>Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Mainstreamery
>
>It's not a question of what sells, but the responsibility of an 
>intellectual and student of the art. Far more Latin Americans enjoy 
>the sentimental and easy Jaime Sabines, but all poetry readers and 
>critics are aware of Lezama Lima, who's neither, and they would be 
>considered idiots if they weren't. In my Cuban anthology I include a 
>lot of poetry that I think is the best and most representative of 
>its kind, which doesn't always mean that I'd seek out those poets 
>for my private reading. Awareness doesn't mean love, but it should 
>be part of the job description. I don't understand the fuss about 
>Elizabeth Bishop, but I've read all of her poetry several times (not 
>the posthumous book, tho. I'll get to it) in an effort to 
>understand. I'm not aware that Vendler has made the same effort in 
>reading, say, Jack Spicer.
>
>What I'm saying is that the walls separating ways of thinking are 
>unusually strong in the US and UK. Maybe this goes beyond the arts as well.
>
>At 11:39 AM 12/13/2009, you wrote:
> >On Dec 12, 2009, at 7:05 PM, Mark Weiss wrote:
> >
> >>The degree to which the mainstream remains unaware of the rest 
> is >>utterly astonishing, and utterly tiresome.
> >========================
> >
> >Tiresome, OK. But why astonishing? By any reasonable 
> definition >of the word, "mainstream" surely means "most people who 
> read/write >poetry," doesn't it? (Itself a tiny subset of the 
> literate public >in this country, evidently.) I may not enjoy the 
> fact that Brad >Paisley sells more records than John Prine, but I'm 
> hardly surprised.
> >
> >As for tiresome, well, don't get me started.
> >
> >
> >========================================
> >David Graham
> ><<mailto:grahamd at ripon.edu%3Egrahamd at ripon.edu?>mailto:grahamd at ripo 
> n.edu>grahamd at ripon.edu
> >
> >Home Page:
> ><<http://web.me.com/drjazz%3Ehttp://web.me.com/drjazz>http://web.me 
> .com/drjazz>http://web.me.com/drjazz
> >
> >Poetry Library:
> ><<http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html%3Ehttp://web.me.co 
>
m/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html>http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.htm
l>http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html 
>
> >==========================================
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >New-Poetry mailing list
> ><mailto:New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
>Announcing The Whole Island: Six Decades of Cuban Poetry (University 
>of California Press).
>Forthcoming in November 2009.
><http://go.ucpress.edu/WholeIsland>http://go.ucpress.edu/WholeIsland
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>New-Poetry mailing list
><mailto:New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>_______________________________________________
>New-Poetry mailing list
>New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry

Announcing The Whole Island: Six Decades of Cuban Poetry (University 
of California Press).
Forthcoming in November 2009.
http://go.ucpress.edu/WholeIsland



_______________________________________________
New-Poetry mailing list
New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry




From junction at earthlink.net  Mon Dec 14 15:29:12 2009
From: junction at earthlink.net (Mark Weiss)
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 2009 15:29:12 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Mainstreamery
In-Reply-To: <3F65B30A3C104F2597166372BAEF4D4C@win.louisiana.edu>
References: <E1NKHFX-0003yB-7M@elasmtp-dupuy.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
	<3F65B30A3C104F2597166372BAEF4D4C@win.louisiana.edu>
Message-ID: <E1NKHXj-0008Co-VE@elasmtp-curtail.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

Yeah. So her knowledge exceeds by a little bit anyway what she's 
usually willing to acknowledge. Ginsberg is pretty hard to ignore. 
How about Olson, who actively engaged some of her ikons, and actively 
questioned the basis of their work?

A celebrity critic (and she's one of the very few) bears I think a 
special responsibility, as she's likely to be the only guide for many 
of her readers. What she doesn't acknowledge becomes for them the 
tree falling in the forest.

But perhaps obliteration through silence is what she wishes.

If this were only Vendler it wouldn't be an issue. Hell, if it were 
only Vendler she'd be a laughingstock.

This is not, by the way, a complaint about limitations of publishing 
possibilities. I frankly don't experience those beyond what can be 
explained by my own inattention.

Mark

At 03:21 PM 12/14/2009, you wrote:
>I was surprised she included Ginsberg in the Harvard anthology.
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>[mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Mark Weiss
>Sent: Monday, December 14, 2009 2:10 PM
>To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &amp;Views
>Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Mainstreamery
>
>As far as I know she's never so much as mentioned a non-mainstream
>poet. But assuming that context matters, it's hard to understand how
>she could deal with, say, Lowell without a major investment in
>Ginsberg. It's rather like an ecologist who's not aware that a
>biosphere is interactive.
>
>At 02:41 PM 12/14/2009, you wrote:
> >Unless I had a chance to directly query her re Spicer's work or had
> >the opportunity to peruse her personal library, I wouldn't assume
> >Vendler hasn't read Spicer just because she hasn't written about
> >him. My guess is she's read him...at least a selection. When it
> >comes comes to whom one writes about critically, there is the matter
> >of engagement (Spicer may not be her cup of tea) and career
> >management (for an academic critic) comes into play.
> >Finnegan
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: Mark Weiss <junction at earthlink.net>
> >Sent: Sun, Dec 13, 2009 12:52 pm
> >Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Mainstreamery
> >
> >It's not a question of what sells, but the responsibility of an
> >intellectual and student of the art. Far more Latin Americans enjoy
> >the sentimental and easy Jaime Sabines, but all poetry readers and
> >critics are aware of Lezama Lima, who's neither, and they would be
> >considered idiots if they weren't. In my Cuban anthology I include a
> >lot of poetry that I think is the best and most representative of
> >its kind, which doesn't always mean that I'd seek out those poets
> >for my private reading. Awareness doesn't mean love, but it should
> >be part of the job description. I don't understand the fuss about
> >Elizabeth Bishop, but I've read all of her poetry several times (not
> >the posthumous book, tho. I'll get to it) in an effort to
> >understand. I'm not aware that Vendler has made the same effort in
> >reading, say, Jack Spicer.
> >
> >What I'm saying is that the walls separating ways of thinking are
> >unusually strong in the US and UK. Maybe this goes beyond the arts as well.
> >
> >At 11:39 AM 12/13/2009, you wrote:
> > >On Dec 12, 2009, at 7:05 PM, Mark Weiss wrote:
> > >
> > >>The degree to which the mainstream remains unaware of the rest
> > is >>utterly astonishing, and utterly tiresome.
> > >========================
> > >
> > >Tiresome, OK. But why astonishing? By any reasonable
> > definition >of the word, "mainstream" surely means "most people who
> > read/write >poetry," doesn't it? (Itself a tiny subset of the
> > literate public >in this country, evidently.) I may not enjoy the
> > fact that Brad >Paisley sells more records than John Prine, but I'm
> > hardly surprised.
> > >
> > >As for tiresome, well, don't get me started.
> > >
> > >
> > >========================================
> > >David Graham
> > ><<mailto:grahamd at ripon.edu%3Egrahamd at ripon.edu?>mailto:grahamd at ripo
> > n.edu>grahamd at ripon.edu
> > >
> > >Home Page:
> > ><<http://web.me.com/drjazz%3Ehttp://web.me.com/drjazz>http://web.me
> > .com/drjazz>http://web.me.com/drjazz
> > >
> > >Poetry Library:
> > ><<http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html%3Ehttp://web.me.co >
>m/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html>http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.htm
>l>http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html
> >
> > >==========================================
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >_______________________________________________
> > >New-Poetry mailing list
> > ><mailto:New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> > >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
> >
> >Announcing The Whole Island: Six Decades of Cuban Poetry (University
> >of California Press).
> >Forthcoming in November 2009.
> ><http://go.ucpress.edu/WholeIsland>http://go.ucpress.edu/WholeIsland
> >
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >New-Poetry mailing list
> ><mailto:New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
> >_______________________________________________
> >New-Poetry mailing list
> >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
>Announcing The Whole Island: Six Decades of Cuban Poetry (University
>of California Press).
>Forthcoming in November 2009.
>http://go.ucpress.edu/WholeIsland
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>New-Poetry mailing list
>New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>New-Poetry mailing list
>New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry

Announcing The Whole Island: Six Decades of Cuban Poetry (University 
of California Press).
Forthcoming in November 2009.
http://go.ucpress.edu/WholeIsland





From jforjames at aol.com  Mon Dec 14 15:29:31 2009
From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 2009 15:29:31 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Mainstreamery
In-Reply-To: <E1NKHFX-0003yB-7M@elasmtp-dupuy.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
References: <BFF7C753-7DED-4911-806F-70FC4BD63428@ripon.edu><E1NJsdr-00032y-KW@elasmtp-dupuy.atl.sa.earthlink.net><8CC4B0C889942BA-62A4-E92@webmail-m055.sysops.aol.com>
	<E1NKHFX-0003yB-7M@elasmtp-dupuy.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <8CC4B134657D803-62A4-1F18@webmail-m055.sysops.aol.com>


When 'mainstream' gets bandied about I think it's always worth stepping back and remembering it's 'our little mainstream'. In the context of the society as a whole it's the mainstream within an insignificant cultural trickle. 
Finnegan



-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Weiss <junction at earthlink.net>
Sent: Mon, Dec 14, 2009 3:10 pm
Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Mainstreamery


As far as I know she's never so much as mentioned a non-mainstream poet. But assuming that context matters, it's hard to understand how she could deal with, say, Lowell without a major investment in Ginsberg. It's rather like an ecologist who's not aware that a biosphere is interactive. 
 
At 02:41 PM 12/14/2009, you wrote: 
>Unless I had a chance to directly query her re Spicer's work or had >the opportunity to peruse her personal library, I wouldn't assume >Vendler hasn't read Spicer just because she hasn't written about >him. My guess is she's read him...at least a selection. When it >comes comes to whom one writes about critically, there is the matter >of engagement (Spicer may not be her cup of tea) and career >management (for an academic critic) comes into play. 
>Finnegan 
> 
>-----Original Message----- 
>From: Mark Weiss <junction at earthlink.net> 
>Sent: Sun, Dec 13, 2009 12:52 pm 
>Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Mainstreamery 
> 
>It's not a question of what sells, but the responsibility of an >intellectual and student of the art. Far more Latin Americans enjoy >the sentimental and easy Jaime Sabines, but all poetry readers and >critics are aware of Lezama Lima, who's neither, and they would be >considered idiots if they weren't. In my Cuban anthology I include a >lot of poetry that I think is the best and most representative of >its kind, which doesn't always mean that I'd seek out those poets >for my private reading. Awareness doesn't mean love, but it should >be part of the job description. I don't understand the fuss about >Elizabeth Bishop, but I've read all of her poetry several times (not >the posthumous book, tho. I'll get to it) in an effort to >understand. I'm not aware that Vendler has made the same effort in >reading, say, Jack Spicer. 
> 
>What I'm saying is that the walls separating ways of thinking are >unusually strong in the US and UK. Maybe this goes beyond the arts as well. 
> 
>At 11:39 AM 12/13/2009, you wrote: 
> >On Dec 12, 2009, at 7:05 PM, Mark Weiss wrote: 
> > 
> >>The degree to which the mainstream remains unaware of the rest > is >>utterly astonishing, and utterly tiresome. 
> >======================== 
> > 
> >Tiresome, OK. But why astonishing? By any reasonable > definition >of the word, "mainstream" surely means "most people who > read/write >poetry," doesn't it? (Itself a tiny subset of the > literate public >in this country, evidently.) I may not enjoy the > fact that Brad >Paisley sells more records than John Prine, but I'm > hardly surprised. 
> > 
> >As for tiresome, well, don't get me started. 
> > 
> > 
> >======================================== 
> >David Graham 
> ><<mailto:grahamd at ripon.edu%3Egrahamd at ripon.edu?>mailto:grahamd at ripo > n.edu>grahamd at ripon.edu 
> > 
> >Home Page: 
> ><<http://web.me.com/drjazz%3Ehttp://web.me.com/drjazz>http://web.me > .com/drjazz>http://web.me.com/drjazz 
> > 
> >Poetry Library: 
> ><<http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html%3Ehttp://web.me.co > m/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html>http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html>http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html > 
> >========================================== 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >_______________________________________________ 
> >New-Poetry mailing list 
> ><mailto:New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu 
> >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry 
> 
>Announcing The Whole Island: Six Decades of Cuban Poetry (University >of California Press). 
>Forthcoming in November 2009. 
><http://go.ucpress.edu/WholeIsland>http://go.ucpress.edu/WholeIsland 
> 
> 
>_______________________________________________ 
>New-Poetry mailing list 
><mailto:New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu 
>http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry 
>_______________________________________________ 
>New-Poetry mailing list 
>New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu 
>http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry 
 
Announcing The Whole Island: Six Decades of Cuban Poetry (University of California Press). 
Forthcoming in November 2009. 
http://go.ucpress.edu/WholeIsland 
 
 
_______________________________________________ 
New-Poetry mailing list 
New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu 
http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry 

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From junction at earthlink.net  Mon Dec 14 15:32:21 2009
From: junction at earthlink.net (Mark Weiss)
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 2009 15:32:21 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Mainstreamery
In-Reply-To: <8CC4B134657D803-62A4-1F18@webmail-m055.sysops.aol.com>
References: <BFF7C753-7DED-4911-806F-70FC4BD63428@ripon.edu>
	<E1NJsdr-00032y-KW@elasmtp-dupuy.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
	<8CC4B0C889942BA-62A4-E92@webmail-m055.sysops.aol.com>
	<E1NKHFX-0003yB-7M@elasmtp-dupuy.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
	<8CC4B134657D803-62A4-1F18@webmail-m055.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <E1NKHao-0007Fz-On@elasmtp-junco.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

True enough. And when a small town is threatened with this or that 
it's just a small town. This small town is the one those of us here live in.

Let's look larger. In the context of the universe our planet is small 
potatoes. But those of us on it are still interested in the local news.

At 03:29 PM 12/14/2009, you wrote:
>When 'mainstream' gets bandied about I think it's always worth 
>stepping back and remembering it's 'our little mainstream'. In the 
>context of the society as a whole it's the mainstream within an 
>insignificant cultural trickle.
>Finnegan
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Mark Weiss <junction at earthlink.net>
>Sent: Mon, Dec 14, 2009 3:10 pm
>Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Mainstreamery
>
>As far as I know she's never so much as mentioned a non-mainstream 
>poet. But assuming that context matters, it's hard to understand how 
>she could deal with, say, Lowell without a major investment in 
>Ginsberg. It's rather like an ecologist who's not aware that a 
>biosphere is interactive.
>
>At 02:41 PM 12/14/2009, you wrote:
> >Unless I had a chance to directly query her re Spicer's work or 
> had >the opportunity to peruse her personal library, I wouldn't 
> assume >Vendler hasn't read Spicer just because she hasn't written 
> about >him. My guess is she's read him...at least a selection. When 
> it >comes comes to whom one writes about critically, there is the 
> matter >of engagement (Spicer may not be her cup of tea) and 
> career >management (for an academic critic) comes into play.
> >Finnegan
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: Mark Weiss <<mailto:junction at earthlink.net>junction at earthlink.net>
> >Sent: Sun, Dec 13, 2009 12:52 pm
> >Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Mainstreamery
> >
> >It's not a question of what sells, but the responsibility of 
> an >intellectual and student of the art. Far more Latin Americans 
> enjoy >the sentimental and easy Jaime Sabines, but all poetry 
> readers and >critics are aware of Lezama Lima, who's neither, and 
> they would be >considered idiots if they weren't. In my Cuban 
> anthology I include a >lot of poetry that I think is the best and 
> most representative of >its kind, which doesn't always mean that 
> I'd seek out those poets >for my private reading. Awareness doesn't 
> mean love, but it should >be part of the job description. I don't 
> understand the fuss about >Elizabeth Bishop, but I've read all of 
> her poetry several times (not >the posthumous book, tho. I'll get 
> to it) in an effort to >understand. I'm not aware that Vendler has 
> made the same effort in >reading, say, Jack Spicer.
> >
> >What I'm saying is that the walls separating ways of thinking 
> are >unusually strong in the US and UK. Maybe this goes beyond the 
> arts as well.
> >
> >At 11:39 AM 12/13/2009, you wrote:
> > >On Dec 12, 2009, at 7:05 PM, Mark Weiss wrote:
> > >
> > >>The degree to which the mainstream remains unaware of the 
> rest > is >>utterly astonishing, and utterly tiresome.
> > >========================
> > >
> > >Tiresome, OK. But why astonishing? By any reasonable > 
> definition >of the word, "mainstream" surely means "most people 
> who > read/write >poetry," doesn't it? (Itself a tiny subset of 
> the > literate public >in this country, evidently.) I may not enjoy 
> the > fact that Brad >Paisley sells more records than John Prine, 
> but I'm > hardly surprised.
> > >
> > >As for tiresome, well, don't get me started.
> > >
> > >
> > >========================================
> > >David Graham
> > ><<<mailto:grahamd at ripon.edu%3Egrahamd at ripon.edu?>mailto:grahamd at r 
> ipo>mailto:grahamd at ripon.edu%3Egrahamd at ripon.edu?>mailto:grahamd at rip 
> o > n.edu><mailto:grahamd at ripon.edu>grahamd at ripon.edu
> > >
> > >Home Page:
> > ><<<http://web.me.com/drjazz%3Ehttp://web.me.com/drjazz%3Ehttp://w 
> eb.me>http://web.me.com/drjazz%3Ehttp://web.me.com/drjazz>http://web.me  
>  > .com/drjazz><http://web.me.com/drjazz>http://web.me.com/drjazz
> > >
> > >Poetry Library:
> > ><<<http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html%3Ehttp://web.me 
> .co>http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html%3Ehttp://web.me.c 
> o > 
> m/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html><http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html%3Ehttp://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html>http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html>http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html  
>  >
> > >==========================================
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >_______________________________________________
> > >New-Poetry mailing list
> > ><<mailto:New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu%3ENew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu? 
>  >mailto:New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> > >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
> >
> >Announcing The Whole Island: Six Decades of Cuban Poetry 
> (University >of California Press).
> >Forthcoming in November 2009.
> ><<http://go.ucpress.edu/WholeIsland%3Ehttp://go.ucpress.edu/WholeIs 
> land>http://go.ucpress.edu/WholeIsland>http://go.ucpress.edu/WholeIsland
> >
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >New-Poetry mailing list
> ><<mailto:New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu%3ENew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu?>m 
> ailto:New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
> >_______________________________________________
> >New-Poetry mailing list
> ><mailto:New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
>Announcing The Whole Island: Six Decades of Cuban Poetry (University 
>of California Press).
>Forthcoming in November 2009.
><http://go.ucpress.edu/WholeIsland>http://go.ucpress.edu/WholeIsland
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>New-Poetry mailing list
><mailto:New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>_______________________________________________
>New-Poetry mailing list
>New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry

Announcing The Whole Island: Six Decades of Cuban Poetry (University 
of California Press).
Forthcoming in November 2009.
http://go.ucpress.edu/WholeIsland





From anny.ballardini at gmail.com  Mon Dec 14 16:13:46 2009
From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 2009 22:13:46 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] Mainstreamery
In-Reply-To: <E1NKHao-0007Fz-On@elasmtp-junco.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
References: <BFF7C753-7DED-4911-806F-70FC4BD63428@ripon.edu>
	<E1NJsdr-00032y-KW@elasmtp-dupuy.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
	<8CC4B0C889942BA-62A4-E92@webmail-m055.sysops.aol.com>
	<E1NKHFX-0003yB-7M@elasmtp-dupuy.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
	<8CC4B134657D803-62A4-1F18@webmail-m055.sysops.aol.com>
	<E1NKHao-0007Fz-On@elasmtp-junco.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <4b65c2d70912141313w679d8c5aye6339a48f987f0a4@mail.gmail.com>

I am with James on this, the bigger picture is extremely positive, I have
been having some nice surprises with Obododimma Oha and our anthologies.
Although I love potatoes...

On Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 9:32 PM, Mark Weiss <junction at earthlink.net> wrote:

> True enough. And when a small town is threatened with this or that it's
> just a small town. This small town is the one those of us here live in.
>
> Let's look larger. In the context of the universe our planet is small
> potatoes. But those of us on it are still interested in the local news.
>
>
> At 03:29 PM 12/14/2009, you wrote:
>
>> When 'mainstream' gets bandied about I think it's always worth stepping
>> back and remembering it's 'our little mainstream'. In the context of the
>> society as a whole it's the mainstream within an insignificant cultural
>> trickle.
>> Finnegan
>>
>> --
Anny Ballardini
http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078
http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html
I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing
star!
Friedrich Nietzsche

? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique
vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ?
Giovenale
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From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net  Mon Dec 14 16:18:13 2009
From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman)
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 2009 16:18:13 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Mainstreamery
In-Reply-To: <E1NKHFX-0003yB-7M@elasmtp-dupuy.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
References: <BFF7C753-7DED-4911-806F-70FC4BD63428@ripon.edu><E1NJsdr-00032y-KW@elasmtp-dupuy.atl.sa.earthlink.net><8CC4B0C889942B
	A-62A4-E92@webmail-m055.sysops.aol.com>
	<E1NKHFX-0003yB-7M@elasmtp-dupuy.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <4B26AB95.4090002@nut-n-but.net>

Mark Weiss wrote:
> As far as I know she's never so much as mentioned a non-mainstream 
> poet. But assuming that context matters, it's hard to understand how 
> she could deal with, say, Lowell without a major investment in Ginsberg.
Interesting.  I so don't agree with this that I don't know what to say.  
I consider myself a critic who has covered (unevenly) pretty much the 
entire contemporary continuum of poetry in English, and I haven't 
discussed Ginsberg, though I may have mentioned him once or twice. 

 > It's rather like an ecologist who's not aware that a biosphere is 
interactive.

Right.  So meteorologists can't competently discuss Hurricane Charlie 
without covering the butterflies of Indonesia.

Even if you count Ginsberg a good deal higher than I do, it seems to me 
there are countless backgrounds a critic can use to view a given oeuvre 
from, including, say, Cummings, for Lowell, or Edna St. Vincent Millay.

--Bob



From grahamd at ripon.edu  Mon Dec 14 16:19:37 2009
From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham)
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 2009 15:19:37 -0600
Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Mainstreamery
In-Reply-To: <10ae3.16d6d069.3857ef68@aol.com>
Message-ID: <C74C0809.A4D4%grahamd@ripon.edu>


On 12/14/09 1:43 PM, "almaginnes at aol.com" <almaginnes at aol.com> wrote:

> True enough although one would think that at this stage of the game Vendler
> could write about whoever she pleased. I think it's more likely that Spicer
> isn't up her alley. But her alley seems to be a rather narrow space, even from
> my admittedly mainstream view.
> =============================
> 
> I agree with Al, though it's also true that everyone's taste except my own is
> very flawed. . . .
> 
> Spicer mostly isn't up my alley, either, but I've read his work, and wouldn't
> be surprised if Vendler had also.  Whether she has a duty to promote or even
> acknowledge work she doesn't like is another matter than whether she is aware
> of it.  
> 
> But I do think it's fair to say that even among "mainstream" critics Vendler
> seems unadventurous.  Compare the critical writing of people like Hayden
> Carruth and Donald Hall, for instance--both as mainstream as they come, but
> both willing to range farther afield than Amy Clampitt and Howard Nemerov.
> Everyone's got blind spots, of course, but for my part I don't think I'll ever
> forgive Vendler for omitting Gwendolyn Brooks from her *Harvard Book of
> Contemporary American Poetry*, while including Dave Smith.
> 
> Dave Smith may be one of the better examples, though, of the truism that even
> Vendler can't create a career for a poet all by herself.  Lord knows she's
> tried.  At most she can boost someone (like Jorie Graham) who probably would
> have done just fine without Vendler's promotion.
> 
> 
> 
> 





====================================================
David Graham
grahamd at ripon.edu
Home Page:
http://web.me.com/drjazz/

Poetry Library:
http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html
====================================================



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From almaginnes at aol.com  Mon Dec 14 17:00:09 2009
From: almaginnes at aol.com (almaginnes at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 2009 17:00:09 EST
Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Mainstreamery
Message-ID: <12af9.7398f0f2.38580f69@aol.com>

Dave Smith seems to have done all right with or without Vendler. Even if  
you add in the fact that he's written little in the last twenty five or so 
years  that has stuck. He was everywhere when I started reading contemporary 
poetry. 
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From junction at earthlink.net  Mon Dec 14 17:14:48 2009
From: junction at earthlink.net (Mark Weiss)
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 2009 17:14:48 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Mainstreamery
In-Reply-To: <C74C0809.A4D4%grahamd@ripon.edu>
References: <10ae3.16d6d069.3857ef68@aol.com> <C74C0809.A4D4%grahamd@ripon.edu>
Message-ID: <E1NKJBw-00040C-Nv@elasmtp-junco.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

Carruth, in fact, carried on a correspondence with both Ginsberg and Olson.

In the limited space of a brief review Vendler mentions and quotes 
Marvell, mentions Whitman, Dickinson, Stevens,  Flaubert, and Stein 
(in denigration). Virtuoso name dropping, which obviates any new 
critical excuse. Nice company, but less relevant then, say, Frank 
O'Hara, not to speak of the rest of contemporary poetry. What emerges 
is a portrait of the artist as isolated within the canon of English 
language poetry, in lone splendour hung aloft. A strange way to see the world.

Mark

At 04:19 PM 12/14/2009, you wrote:

>On 12/14/09 1:43 PM, "<almaginnes at aol.htm>almaginnes at aol.com" 
><<almaginnes at aol.htm>almaginnes at aol.com> wrote:
>
>True enough although one would think that at this stage of the game 
>Vendler could write about whoever she pleased. I think it's more 
>likely that Spicer isn't up her alley. But her alley seems to be a 
>rather narrow space, even from my admittedly mainstream view.
>=============================
>
>I agree with Al, though it's also true that everyone's taste except 
>my own is very flawed. . . .
>
>Spicer mostly isn't up my alley, either, but I've read his work, and 
>wouldn't be surprised if Vendler had also.  Whether she has a duty 
>to promote or even acknowledge work she doesn't like is another 
>matter than whether she is aware of it.
>
>But I do think it's fair to say that even among "mainstream" critics 
>Vendler seems unadventurous.  Compare the critical writing of people 
>like Hayden Carruth and Donald Hall, for instance--both as 
>mainstream as they come, but both willing to range farther afield 
>than Amy Clampitt and Howard Nemerov.  Everyone's got blind spots, 
>of course, but for my part I don't think I'll ever forgive Vendler 
>for omitting Gwendolyn Brooks from her *Harvard Book of Contemporary 
>American Poetry*, while including Dave Smith.
>
>Dave Smith may be one of the better examples, though, of the truism 
>that even Vendler can't create a career for a poet all by 
>herself.  Lord knows she's tried.  At most she can boost someone 
>(like Jorie Graham) who probably would have done just fine without 
>Vendler's promotion.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>====================================================
>David Graham
><grahamd at ripon.htm>grahamd at ripon.edu
>Home Page:
><http://web.me.com/drjazz/>http://web.me.com/drjazz/
>
>Poetry Library:
><http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html>http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html
>====================================================
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>New-Poetry mailing list
>New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry

Announcing The Whole Island: Six Decades of Cuban Poetry (University 
of California Press).
Forthcoming in November 2009.
http://go.ucpress.edu/WholeIsland





From jforjames at aol.com  Mon Dec 14 23:03:47 2009
From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 2009 23:03:47 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Mainstreamery
In-Reply-To: <12af9.7398f0f2.38580f69@aol.com>
References: <12af9.7398f0f2.38580f69@aol.com>
Message-ID: <8CC4B52BC47F807-528C-B9FB@webmail-d015.sysops.aol.com>


Spicer definitely has done well without Vendler. He's the got younger gun Peter Gizzi pitching for his legacy. Gizzi edited a recent prose collection plus a new collected poems. (Look at the list from that lowly Univ. of California Press! Such shoddy production values too.) And not too many years back the very nice Spricer biography (Poet, Be A God) by Kevin Killian. Spicer's hardly been neglected, at least in this decade.

I hate to be Vendler's defender, but I think she's done some good work on two poets in particular, Wallace Stevens and W. B. Yeats.
Her view of the contemporaries may not be covering the waterfront...but, really, who does it well from both sides and all angles? A in-depth critical work takes a lot of time and energy. How many poets can a critic be expected to pay close attention to? I think the last time this came up I said that Marjorie Perloff could be considered the other bookend critic to Helen Vendler. Each are looking at the Modernist canon & Post-Modern scene and choosing different sides/poets to highlight and promote. I don't imagine Perloff plans a large scale study of Robt. Lowell anytime soon? But she may surprise us. She's a good critic by any count.

Michael Davidson, Joan Retallack, Alan Golding (he lurks here), Hank Lazer, Mark Scroggins, Ed Foster, etc. all touting the non-mainstream. The poor mainstream's got Wm. Logan, god help them. And Adam Kirsch is not much better in my view. Come to think of it, the mainstream is the aggrieved party. In fact, come to think of it, it's sign of weakness among the non-mainstream that they've not developed a 'critic de camp' telling them they're all writing shit.
Finnegan


-----Original Message-----
From: almaginnes at aol.com
To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
Sent: Mon, Dec 14, 2009 5:00 pm
Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Re: Mainstreamery


Dave Smith seems to have done all right with or without Vendler. Even if you add in the fact that he's written little in the last twenty five or so years that has stuck. He was everywhere when I started reading contemporary poetry. 

_______________________________________________
ew-Poetry mailing list
ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry

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From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net  Tue Dec 15 06:33:11 2009
From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman)
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 2009 06:33:11 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Mainstreamery
In-Reply-To: <E1NKJBw-00040C-Nv@elasmtp-junco.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
References: <10ae3.16d6d069.3857ef68@aol.com> <C74C0809.A4D4%grahamd@ripon.edu>
	<E1NKJBw-00040C-Nv@elasmtp-junco.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <4B2773F7.9080000@nut-n-but.net>

Mark Weiss wrote:
> Carruth, in fact, carried on a correspondence with both Ginsberg and 
> Olson.
And ignored the work of his pupil, the visual poet Geof Huth.

>
> In the limited space of a brief review Vendler mentions and quotes 
> Marvell, mentions Whitman, Dickinson, Stevens,  Flaubert, and Stein 
> (in denigration). Virtuoso name dropping, which obviates any new 
> critical excuse. Nice company, but less relevant then, say, Frank O'Hara, 
If true, and who is to say it is, all you're saying is that Vendler 
writes criticism out of a different background than you would have.  I 
think she treats standard poetry with standard ideas, and does so fairly 
competently.

> not to speak of the rest of contemporary poetry. What emerges is a 
> portrait of the artist as isolated within the canon of English 
> language poetry, in lone splendour hung aloft. A strange way to see 
> the world.
Again, I don't see it that way.  Why "isolated?"  I think most readers 
take it for granted that English poetry has connections to poetry in 
other languages, but (intelligently) see foreign poetry as secondary to 
poetry in the poet's language in influencing him (in most cases, 
particularly for those speaking just one language).  Let critics with 
knowledge of foreign poetry weigh in, to add to the critical knowledge 
of a given poet, but don't expect one critic to be able to say all that 
can be said about a poet.

The idea that a critic or poet cannot be important unless he knows some 
poetry in another language and some particular poet's work in any 
language is crap, regardless of how Pound and Eliot voiced their belief 
that poets and critics should all know what they knew to be of value.  A 
poet or critic will not produce anything of value unless he knows 
something, but the nature of what he knows is close to irrelevant.

(Note to Hal: the above is Fact.)

--Bob



From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net  Tue Dec 15 07:29:59 2009
From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman)
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 2009 07:29:59 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Mainstreamery
In-Reply-To: <8CC4B52BC47F807-528C-B9FB@webmail-d015.sysops.aol.com>
References: <12af9.7398f0f2.38580f69@aol.com>
	<8CC4B52BC47F807-528C-B9FB@webmail-d015.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <4B278147.1090101@nut-n-but.net>

Yeah, I for one would never have heard of Stevens or Yeats if not for 
Vendler, and I sure wouldn't have understood them if I had.

--Bo



From jeff.newberry at gmail.com  Tue Dec 15 07:41:41 2009
From: jeff.newberry at gmail.com (Jeff Newberry)
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 2009 07:41:41 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Mainstreamery
In-Reply-To: <4B278147.1090101@nut-n-but.net>
References: <12af9.7398f0f2.38580f69@aol.com>
	<8CC4B52BC47F807-528C-B9FB@webmail-d015.sysops.aol.com>
	<4B278147.1090101@nut-n-but.net>
Message-ID: <731bb17a0912150441q7813cdf5t301fe5343603cb2c@mail.gmail.com>

Yeah, because that's *exactly *what Jim suggested.  *Exactly*.  Your powers
of observation are indeed astute.

Bob, your brand of dismissive hatred always gives me the warm fuzzies.
Thanks.

Jeff Newberry

On Tue, Dec 15, 2009 at 7:29 AM, Bob Grumman <bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net>wrote:

> Yeah, I for one would never have heard of Stevens or Yeats if not for
> Vendler, and I sure wouldn't have understood them if I had.
>
> --Bo
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>



-- 
You cannot tell people what to do, you can only tell them parables; and that
is what art really is, particular stories of particular people and
experience, from which each according to his own immediate and peculiar
needs may draw his own conclusion. --W.H. Auden
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From grahamd at ripon.edu  Tue Dec 15 10:03:10 2009
From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham)
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 2009 09:03:10 -0600
Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Mainstreamery
In-Reply-To: <8CC4B52BC47F807-528C-B9FB@webmail-d015.sysops.aol.com>
References: <12af9.7398f0f2.38580f69@aol.com>
	<8CC4B52BC47F807-528C-B9FB@webmail-d015.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <6AA70775-3F24-4AF7-9F02-79061AB2F8EA@ripon.edu>

I also think Vendler's a very good critic, within her somewhat limited field of vision.  As I noted, Carruth and Hall in particular, among high profile mainstreamers who review & criticize contemporary poetry, have demonstrated much more catholic taste.  Carruth's *Voice That Is Great Within Us*, though sadly dated these days, remains a high point of anthologizing, too.  But Vendler's as good as they come when she digs in on a poet she admires.  

And unlike--oh, say, many subscribers to this listserv including me--she actually does spend a good deal of time discussing texts.

Has anyone said a word about the Ashbery book that Vendler reviewed, for example?  

Here's the title poem, if anyone is interested.

Planisphere

Mysterious barricades, a headrest (of sorts),
boarded the train at Shinjuku junction
to the palpable consternation of
certain other rubberneckers already installed
in the observation car of their dreams. ?It?s so peaceful
on my pallet. I could just live here.?
In a second the deadbeat returned with lunch tokens.
It had been meant to be sublime, but hell was
what it more specifically resembled. Remember
to hold the course and take two of everything. That way
if we make journey?s end before the tracks expire
we?ll have been found living in it ? the deep magenta
sunset I mean.

There is nothing like putting off a journey
until the next convenient interruption swamps
onlookers and ticketholders alike. We all more or less
resembled one another, until that fatal day in 1861
when the walkways fell off the mountains and the spruces
spruced down. I mean it was unimaginable in a way.
You?ll have to install a park with chairs and restrooms
for the weary and a simple but firm visitors? code
for it to be given out in your name and become a boon
to limp multitudes who thought you were somebody else
or didn?t know what it was you did. But we?ll stay clean,
by God, and when the tide of misinformation reaches
the first terrace, we?ll know what to do: yell our heads off
and admit to no mistakes.

The land stretched away like jelly into a confused cleft.
All was yapping, the race having ended
before we arrived, with mixed results.
Nobody knew what they owed or how much credit
had been advanced, being incapable of niceties like buzzing
and herding fleas till the next shipment of analgesics arrived.
It was like forming signals out of loam when you were young
and too discouraged to care very much
about aftershocks or where the die ended up.
It was too smoky in the little kitchen garden or potager
to pay much mind to the rabbits and their plankton
dispensary. Something had been launched. We knew that.


-- John Ashbery.  Planisphere.  Ecco, 2009.


========================================
David Graham
grahamd at ripon.edu

Home Page:
http://web.me.com/drjazz

Poetry Library:
http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html
==========================================




On Dec 14, 2009, at 10:03 PM, JforJames at aol.com wrote:
> 
> I hate to be Vendler's defender, but I think she's done some good work on two poets in particular, Wallace Stevens and W. B. Yeats.
> Her view of the contemporaries may not be covering the waterfront...but, really, who does it well from both sides and all angles? A in-depth critical work takes a lot of time and energy. How many poets can a critic be expected to pay close attention to? I think the last time this came up I said that Marjorie Perloff could be considered the other bookend critic to Helen Vendler. Each are looking at the Modernist canon & Post-Modern scene and choosing different sides/poets to highlight and promote. I don't imagine Perloff plans a large scale study of Robt. Lowell anytime soon? But she may surprise us. She's a good critic by any count.
>  

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From grahamd at ripon.edu  Tue Dec 15 10:06:33 2009
From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham)
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 2009 09:06:33 -0600
Subject: [New-Poetry] Levine at Cortland Review
Message-ID: <30F17152-DF9B-4FEB-B04B-9C0852308B5C@ripon.edu>

The Cortland Review's new issue features Philip Levine, with a review of his latest book, some poems (with audio), an interview, and a video "tour" with PL of Brooklyn.  Plus some poets selected by Levine.

-----------
1. WINTER FEATURE RELEASED
-----------

The full feature:  
http://www.cortlandreview.com/features/09/winter/index.html?ref=nl1209

Join TCR on a walk with Philip Levine through the streets of Brooklyn to discover what inspires him. We have three new Philip Levine poems, new poems by twelve poet friends he's invited to appear with him: Shane Book, Xochiqueztal Candelaria, Kate Daniels, Peter Everwine, Corrinne Clegg Hales, C.G. Hanzlicek, Juan Felipe Herrera, Donna Masini, Tom?s Q. Mor?n, Malena M?rling, Tom Sleigh and David St. John (all in audio); "Our Questions for Phil: An Interview," questions posed by each contributor to this feature and one we wanted to ask; and David Rigsbee's review of Phil's latest collection, "News of the World: Poems." 
========================================
David Graham
grahamd at ripon.edu

Home Page:
http://web.me.com/drjazz

Poetry Library:
http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html
==========================================




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From almaginnes at aol.com  Tue Dec 15 10:11:51 2009
From: almaginnes at aol.com (almaginnes at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 2009 10:11:51 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Mainstreamery
In-Reply-To: <6AA70775-3F24-4AF7-9F02-79061AB2F8EA@ripon.edu>
References: <12af9.7398f0f2.38580f69@aol.com><8CC4B52BC47F807-528C-B9FB@webmail-d015.sysops.aol.com>
	<6AA70775-3F24-4AF7-9F02-79061AB2F8EA@ripon.edu>
Message-ID: <8CC4BB0108AF882-2B90-13705@webmail-m056.sysops.aol.com>

Ashbery is so damn prolific that I'm about a decade and a half behind him. I've recetnly been spernding a lot of time with the Library of America volume that came out of his work and it--all 800 or whatever it is pages--only goes up to 1986 or so.



-----Original Message-----
From: David Graham <grahamd at ripon.edu>
Sent: Tue, Dec 15, 2009 10:03 am
Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Mainstreamery


I also think Vendler's a very good critic, within her somewhat limited field of vision.  As I noted, Carruth and Hall in particular, among high profile mainstreamers who review & criticize contemporary poetry, have demonstrated much more catholic taste.  Carruth's *Voice That Is Great Within Us*, though sadly dated these days, remains a high point of anthologizing, too.  But Vendler's as good as they come when she digs in on a poet she admires.  


And unlike--oh, say, many subscribers to this listserv including me--she actually does spend a good deal of time discussing texts.


Has anyone said a word about the Ashbery book that Vendler reviewed, for example?  


Here's the title poem, if anyone is interested.



Planisphere


Mysterious barricades, a headrest (of sorts),
boarded the train at Shinjuku junction
to the palpable consternation of
certain other rubberneckers already installed
in the observation car of their dreams. ?It?s so peaceful
on my pallet. I could just live here.?
In a second the deadbeat returned with lunch tokens.
It had been meant to be sublime, but hell was
what it more specifically resembled. Remember
to hold the course and take two of everything. That way
if we make journey?s end before the tracks expire
we?ll have been found living in it ? the deep magenta
sunset I mean.


There is nothing like putting off a journey
until the next convenient interruption swamps
onlookers and ticketholders alike. We all more or less
resembled one another, until that fatal day in 1861
when the walkways fell off the mountains and the spruces
spruced down. I mean it was unimaginable in a way.
You?ll have to install a park with chairs and restrooms
for the weary and a simple but firm visitors? code
for it to be given out in your name and become a boon
to limp multitudes who thought you were somebody else
or didn?t know what it was you did. But we?ll stay clean,
by God, and when the tide of misinformation reaches
the first terrace, we?ll know what to do: yell our heads off
and admit to no mistakes.


The land stretched away like jelly into a confused cleft.
All was yapping, the race having ended
before we arrived, with mixed results.
Nobody knew what they owed or how much credit
had been advanced, being incapable of niceties like buzzing
and herding fleas till the next shipment of analgesics arrived.
It was like forming signals out of loam when you were young
and too discouraged to care very much
about aftershocks or where the die ended up.
It was too smoky in the little kitchen garden or potager
to pay much mind to the rabbits and their plankton
dispensary. Something had been launched. We knew that.




-- John Ashbery.  Planisphere.  Ecco, 2009.




========================================
David Graham
grahamd at ripon.edu


Home Page:
http://web.me.com/drjazz


Poetry Library:
http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html
==========================================







On Dec 14, 2009, at 10:03 PM, JforJames at aol.com wrote:


I hate to be Vendler's defender, but I think she's done some good work on two poets in particular, Wallace Stevens and W. B. Yeats.
Her view of the contemporaries may not be covering the waterfront...but, really, who does it well from both sides and all angles? A in-depth critical work takes a lot of time and energy. How many poets can a critic be expected to pay close attention to? I think the last time this came up I said that Marjorie Perloff could be considered the other bookend critic to Helen Vendler. Each are looking at the Modernist canon & Post-Modern scene and choosing different sides/poets to highlight and promote. I don't imagine Perloff plans a large scale study of Robt. Lowell anytime soon? But she may surprise us. She's a good critic by any count.
 



= 

_______________________________________________
ew-Poetry mailing list
ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry

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From acgold01 at louisville.edu  Tue Dec 15 10:19:16 2009
From: acgold01 at louisville.edu (Alan C Golding)
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 2009 10:19:16 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Surprise
Message-ID: <4B2762A4.AC48.0004.0@gwise.louisville.edu>

"I don't imagine Perloff plans a large scale study of Robt. Lowell anytime soon? But she may surprise us."

Or she may have already surprised us.  Perloff's first two books were on Yeats and Lowell respectively.

Alan





From halvard at gmail.com  Tue Dec 15 13:11:08 2009
From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson)
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 2009 12:11:08 -0600
Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Mainstreamery
In-Reply-To: <4B2773F7.9080000@nut-n-but.net>
References: <10ae3.16d6d069.3857ef68@aol.com> <C74C0809.A4D4%grahamd@ripon.edu>
	<E1NKJBw-00040C-Nv@elasmtp-junco.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
	<4B2773F7.9080000@nut-n-but.net>
Message-ID: <f160a1210912151011q642314e5h7507d15cc3a26ba4@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks for the note, Bob, but I have no idea what you mean by
"the above."

Hal

"We don't serve fine wine in half-pints, buddy."
                  --Robert Ashley

Halvard Johnson
================
halvard at gmail.com
http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home
http://entropyandme.blogspot.com
http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com
http://www.hamiltonstone.org


On Tue, Dec 15, 2009 at 5:33 AM, Bob Grumman <bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net>wrote:

> Mark Weiss wrote:
>
>> Carruth, in fact, carried on a correspondence with both Ginsberg and
>> Olson.
>>
> And ignored the work of his pupil, the visual poet Geof Huth.
>
>
>
>> In the limited space of a brief review Vendler mentions and quotes
>> Marvell, mentions Whitman, Dickinson, Stevens,  Flaubert, and Stein (in
>> denigration). Virtuoso name dropping, which obviates any new critical
>> excuse. Nice company, but less relevant then, say, Frank O'Hara,
>>
> If true, and who is to say it is, all you're saying is that Vendler writes
> criticism out of a different background than you would have.  I think she
> treats standard poetry with standard ideas, and does so fairly competently.
>
>
>  not to speak of the rest of contemporary poetry. What emerges is a
>> portrait of the artist as isolated within the canon of English language
>> poetry, in lone splendour hung aloft. A strange way to see the world.
>>
> Again, I don't see it that way.  Why "isolated?"  I think most readers take
> it for granted that English poetry has connections to poetry in other
> languages, but (intelligently) see foreign poetry as secondary to poetry in
> the poet's language in influencing him (in most cases, particularly for
> those speaking just one language).  Let critics with knowledge of foreign
> poetry weigh in, to add to the critical knowledge of a given poet, but don't
> expect one critic to be able to say all that can be said about a poet.
>
> The idea that a critic or poet cannot be important unless he knows some
> poetry in another language and some particular poet's work in any language
> is crap, regardless of how Pound and Eliot voiced their belief that poets
> and critics should all know what they knew to be of value.  A poet or critic
> will not produce anything of value unless he knows something, but the nature
> of what he knows is close to irrelevant.
>
> (Note to Hal: the above is Fact.)
>
> --Bob
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
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From anny.ballardini at gmail.com  Tue Dec 15 13:19:59 2009
From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 2009 19:19:59 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] Odd Contest
Message-ID: <4b65c2d70912151019n30b89d73ua949e3bc8c6226e4@mail.gmail.com>

http://www.oddcon.com/contest.html


-- 
Anny Ballardini
http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078
http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html
I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing
star!
Friedrich Nietzsche

? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique
vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ?
Giovenale
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From cervantes.james at gmail.com  Tue Dec 15 16:33:16 2009
From: cervantes.james at gmail.com (James Cervantes)
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 2009 14:33:16 -0700
Subject: [New-Poetry] The Salt River Review, Winter, 2009
Message-ID: <648208b60912151333h652353f2k608a24ec7e10755b@mail.gmail.com>

The Salt River Review, Winter 2009


Poetry by Bob Herz, Ankur Betageri , Matt Sadler, Lynn Strongin, Josepha
Gutelius, Halvard Johnson, Fernando Pessoa, Carlos Reyes, Sergio Ortiz,
Edward Harkness, Howard Aaron, & Virginia Sutton.

Fiction by Mark Wekander, Robert Wexelblatt, & Richard Kostelanetz.

Belles Lettres: Wherein prose poems, nonfiction, essays, and other writings
are found: Stephanie Dickinson, Laura Jensen.


Online at http://www.poetserv.org
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From jforjames at aol.com  Tue Dec 15 16:57:18 2009
From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 2009 16:57:18 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Surprise
In-Reply-To: <4B2762A4.AC48.0004.0@gwise.louisville.edu>
References: <4B2762A4.AC48.0004.0@gwise.louisville.edu>
Message-ID: <8CC4BE8B448FB4B-6C90-1B2F@webmail-d041.sysops.aol.com>


Thanks, Alan. Skeletons in the closet, I see.
Finnegan



-----Original Message-----
From: Alan C Golding <acgold01 at louisville.edu>
To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
Sent: Tue, Dec 15, 2009 10:19 am
Subject: [New-Poetry] Surprise


"I don't imagine Perloff plans a large scale study of Robt. Lowell anytime soon? 
ut she may surprise us."
Or she may have already surprised us.  Perloff's first two books were on Yeats 
nd Lowell respectively.
Alan

_______________________________________________
ew-Poetry mailing list
ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry

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From david.bircumshaw at ntlworld.com  Tue Dec 15 17:49:27 2009
From: david.bircumshaw at ntlworld.com (David Bircumshaw)
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 2009 22:49:27 -0000
Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Mainstreamery
References: <12af9.7398f0f2.38580f69@aol.com><8CC4B52BC47F807-528C-B9FB@webmail-d015.sysops.aol.com>
	<6AA70775-3F24-4AF7-9F02-79061AB2F8EA@ripon.edu>
Message-ID: <997F1C3C5DD8485CABE96D4456CBC6B7@SN037832120162>

It reads to me almost like a virtuoso imitation of John Ashbery by Big J.A. in a Prospect of Fading Powers. I like it, vaguely, but also feel as if presented with a kind of Higher Formula Writing.



David Bircumshaw
Website: http://www.staplednapkin.org.uk
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: David Graham 
  To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &amp;Views 
  Sent: Tuesday, December 15, 2009 3:03 PM
  Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Mainstreamery


  I also think Vendler's a very good critic, within her somewhat limited field of vision.  As I noted, Carruth and Hall in particular, among high profile mainstreamers who review & criticize contemporary poetry, have demonstrated much more catholic taste.  Carruth's *Voice That Is Great Within Us*, though sadly dated these days, remains a high point of anthologizing, too.  But Vendler's as good as they come when she digs in on a poet she admires.  


  And unlike--oh, say, many subscribers to this listserv including me--she actually does spend a good deal of time discussing texts.


  Has anyone said a word about the Ashbery book that Vendler reviewed, for example?  


  Here's the title poem, if anyone is interested.


  Planisphere


  Mysterious barricades, a headrest (of sorts),
  boarded the train at Shinjuku junction
  to the palpable consternation of
  certain other rubberneckers already installed
  in the observation car of their dreams. ?It?s so peaceful
  on my pallet. I could just live here.?
  In a second the deadbeat returned with lunch tokens.
  It had been meant to be sublime, but hell was
  what it more specifically resembled. Remember
  to hold the course and take two of everything. That way
  if we make journey?s end before the tracks expire
  we?ll have been found living in it ? the deep magenta
  sunset I mean.


  There is nothing like putting off a journey
  until the next convenient interruption swamps
  onlookers and ticketholders alike. We all more or less
  resembled one another, until that fatal day in 1861
  when the walkways fell off the mountains and the spruces
  spruced down. I mean it was unimaginable in a way.
  You?ll have to install a park with chairs and restrooms
  for the weary and a simple but firm visitors? code
  for it to be given out in your name and become a boon
  to limp multitudes who thought you were somebody else
  or didn?t know what it was you did. But we?ll stay clean,
  by God, and when the tide of misinformation reaches
  the first terrace, we?ll know what to do: yell our heads off
  and admit to no mistakes.


  The land stretched away like jelly into a confused cleft.
  All was yapping, the race having ended
  before we arrived, with mixed results.
  Nobody knew what they owed or how much credit
  had been advanced, being incapable of niceties like buzzing
  and herding fleas till the next shipment of analgesics arrived.
  It was like forming signals out of loam when you were young
  and too discouraged to care very much
  about aftershocks or where the die ended up.
  It was too smoky in the little kitchen garden or potager
  to pay much mind to the rabbits and their plankton
  dispensary. Something had been launched. We knew that.




  -- John Ashbery.  Planisphere.  Ecco, 2009.



  ========================================
  David Graham
  grahamd at ripon.edu


  Home Page:
  http://web.me.com/drjazz


  Poetry Library:
  http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html
  ==========================================







  On Dec 14, 2009, at 10:03 PM, JforJames at aol.com wrote:


    I hate to be Vendler's defender, but I think she's done some good work on two poets in particular, Wallace Stevens and W. B. Yeats.
    Her view of the contemporaries may not be covering the waterfront...but, really, who does it well from both sides and all angles? A in-depth critical work takes a lot of time and energy. How many poets can a critic be expected to pay close attention to? I think the last time this came up I said that Marjorie Perloff could be considered the other bookend critic to Helen Vendler. Each are looking at the Modernist canon & Post-Modern scene and choosing different sides/poets to highlight and promote. I don't imagine Perloff plans a large scale study of Robt. Lowell anytime soon? But she may surprise us. She's a good critic by any count.





------------------------------------------------------------------------------


  _______________________________________________
  New-Poetry mailing list
  New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
  http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
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From grahamd at ripon.edu  Tue Dec 15 18:22:31 2009
From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham)
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 2009 17:22:31 -0600
Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Mainstreamery
In-Reply-To: <997F1C3C5DD8485CABE96D4456CBC6B7@SN037832120162>
References: <12af9.7398f0f2.38580f69@aol.com><8CC4B52BC47F807-528C-B9FB@webmail-d015.sysops.aol.com>
	<6AA70775-3F24-4AF7-9F02-79061AB2F8EA@ripon.edu>
	<997F1C3C5DD8485CABE96D4456CBC6B7@SN037832120162>
Message-ID: <09B72E89-F586-455C-AE35-E1AD83225F89@ripon.edu>





On Dec 15, 2009, at 4:49 PM, David Bircumshaw wrote:

> It reads to me almost like a virtuoso imitation of John Ashbery by Big J.A. in a Prospect of Fading Powers. I like it, vaguely, but also feel as if presented with a kind of Higher Formula Writing.
>  
>  
>  
> David Bircumshaw
========================

Yeah, you gotta hand it to him:  the man sure can write an Ashbery poem!

About twelve per hour, by my most recent reckoning. . . .  How *many* books has he published in the past ten years?


========================================
David Graham
grahamd at ripon.edu

Home Page:
http://web.me.com/drjazz

Poetry Library:
http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html
==========================================


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From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net  Tue Dec 15 20:29:07 2009
From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman)
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 2009 20:29:07 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Mainstreamery
In-Reply-To: <f160a1210912151011q642314e5h7507d15cc3a26ba4@mail.gmail.com>
References: <10ae3.16d6d069.3857ef68@aol.com>
	<C74C0809.A4D4%grahamd@ripon.edu><E1NKJBw-00040C-Nv@elasmtp-junco.atl.sa.earthlink.net><4B2773F7.9080000@nut-n-but.net>
	<f160a1210912151011q642314e5h7507d15cc3a26ba4@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4B2837E3.4000701@nut-n-but.net>

Halvard Johnson wrote:
> Thanks for the note, Bob, but I have no idea what you mean by
> "the above."
>
> Hal
The text above  my line about what was fact.

--Bob

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From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net  Tue Dec 15 20:52:33 2009
From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman)
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 2009 20:52:33 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Mainstreamery
In-Reply-To: <731bb17a0912150441q7813cdf5t301fe5343603cb2c@mail.gmail.com>
References: <12af9.7398f0f2.38580f69@aol.com><8CC4B52BC47F807-528C-B9FB@webmail-d015.sysops.aol.com><4B278147.1090101@nut-n-but.n
	et> <731bb17a0912150441q7813cdf5t301fe5343603cb2c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4B283D61.7090202@nut-n-but.net>

Jeff Newberry wrote:
> Yeah, because that's /exactly /what Jim suggested.  /Exactly/.  Your 
> powers of observation are indeed astute.
Exactly what Jim suggested was that Vendler has written criticism of 
value concerning Yeats and Stevens.  Exactly what I said back, albeit 
not directly, was that she has not written criticism of value concerning 
Yeats and Stevens; I indicated why: (1) her criticism did not introduce 
poetry of value to anyone with any familiarity with poetry in English; 
(2) her criticism did not help anyone with any familiarity with Yeats 
and Stevens understand them--because critics before her had already made 
them as understandable as poets can be, especially Yeats, who is easy to 
understand.  Vendler seems to have helped introduce a few poets like 
Ashbery, some perhaps of minor interest, but she's introduced no schools 
of poetry, or critical idea of any real interest.  I think she is always 
competent, however, which isn't true of Margie, who is nonetheless 
Vendler's superior because she has at least written about a few poets 
not mainstream when she wrote about them.  Bloom, the third bigtime 
mainstream critic is a much more interesting writer than either of them, 
but as limited in range as Vendler, and nearly as wrong as Perloff in 
his understanding of poetry.  Vendler seems rarely wrong in what she says.

--Bob


>
> Bob, your brand of dismissive hatred always gives me the warm 
> fuzzies.  Thanks.
>
> Jeff Newberry
I'd certainly give it up if I didn't know that, Jeff.  (Note: not to 
criticize, but I think you might reflect on your tendency to consider 
those who don't rate some mainstreamer as high as you do as hating the 
mainstreamer.  I don't hate anyone, as far as I know.  I think I hate 
stupidity, though.)

--Bob
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From halvard at gmail.com  Tue Dec 15 20:58:54 2009
From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson)
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 2009 19:58:54 -0600
Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Mainstreamery
In-Reply-To: <4B2837E3.4000701@nut-n-but.net>
References: <10ae3.16d6d069.3857ef68@aol.com> <C74C0809.A4D4%grahamd@ripon.edu>
	<E1NKJBw-00040C-Nv@elasmtp-junco.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
	<4B2773F7.9080000@nut-n-but.net>
	<f160a1210912151011q642314e5h7507d15cc3a26ba4@mail.gmail.com>
	<4B2837E3.4000701@nut-n-but.net>
Message-ID: <f160a1210912151758j7ac58fedj3c316409f77a1e0e@mail.gmail.com>

In the sense that you believe it to be true, or in
the sense that all of those statements can be
verified?

Hal

"We don't serve fine wine in half-pints, buddy."
                  --Robert Ashley

Halvard Johnson
================
halvard at gmail.com
http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home
http://entropyandme.blogspot.com
http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com
http://www.hamiltonstone.org


On Tue, Dec 15, 2009 at 7:29 PM, Bob Grumman <bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net>wrote:

>  Halvard Johnson wrote:
>
> Thanks for the note, Bob, but I have no idea what you mean by
> "the above."
>
>  Hal
>
> The text above  my line about what was fact.
>
> --Bob
>
>
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From halvard at gmail.com  Tue Dec 15 21:56:16 2009
From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson)
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 2009 20:56:16 -0600
Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Mainstreamery
In-Reply-To: <4B284208.9000906@nut-n-but.net>
References: <10ae3.16d6d069.3857ef68@aol.com> <C74C0809.A4D4%grahamd@ripon.edu>
	<E1NKJBw-00040C-Nv@elasmtp-junco.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
	<4B2773F7.9080000@nut-n-but.net>
	<f160a1210912151011q642314e5h7507d15cc3a26ba4@mail.gmail.com>
	<4B2837E3.4000701@nut-n-but.net>
	<f160a1210912151758j7ac58fedj3c316409f77a1e0e@mail.gmail.com>
	<4B284208.9000906@nut-n-but.net>
Message-ID: <f160a1210912151856n778e95a2m83c4db1cf133538@mail.gmail.com>

Until you can distinguish factual statements from opinions
and judgments I guess we have nothing to talk about here.

See ya.

Hal

"We don't serve fine wine in half-pints, buddy."
                  --Robert Ashley

Halvard Johnson
================
halvard at gmail.com
http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home
http://entropyandme.blogspot.com
http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com
http://www.hamiltonstone.org


On Tue, Dec 15, 2009 at 8:12 PM, Bob Grumman <bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net>wrote:

>  Halvard Johnson wrote:
>
> In the sense that you believe it to be true, or in
> the sense that all of those statements can be
> verified?
>
> Hal
>
>> The text above  my line about what was fact.
>>
>> --Bob
>>
>>
>  Both, of course.
>
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From grahamd at ripon.edu  Tue Dec 15 22:57:33 2009
From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham)
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 2009 21:57:33 -0600
Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Mainstreamery
In-Reply-To: <f160a1210912151856n778e95a2m83c4db1cf133538@mail.gmail.com>
References: <10ae3.16d6d069.3857ef68@aol.com> <C74C0809.A4D4%grahamd@ripon.edu>
	<E1NKJBw-00040C-Nv@elasmtp-junco.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
	<4B2773F7.9080000@nut-n-but.net>
	<f160a1210912151011q642314e5h7507d15cc3a26ba4@mail.gmail.com>
	<4B2837E3.4000701@nut-n-but.net>
	<f160a1210912151758j7ac58fedj3c316409f77a1e0e@mail.gmail.com>
	<4B284208.9000906@nut-n-but.net>
	<f160a1210912151856n778e95a2m83c4db1cf133538@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <3AE26A59-7E8D-49C0-B40E-2B2A00EC2ED6@ripon.edu>

Senator Al Franken:  

"We're entitled to our own opinions, but we are not entitled to our own facts!"





========================================
David Graham
grahamd at ripon.edu

Home Page:
http://web.me.com/drjazz

Poetry Library:
http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html
==========================================




On Dec 15, 2009, at 8:56 PM, Halvard Johnson wrote:

> Until you can distinguish factual statements from opinions
> and judgments I guess we have nothing to talk about here.
> 
> See ya.
> 
> Hal

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From chris at chrislott.org  Tue Dec 15 23:04:34 2009
From: chris at chrislott.org (Chris Lott)
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 2009 19:04:34 -0900
Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Mainstreamery
In-Reply-To: <3AE26A59-7E8D-49C0-B40E-2B2A00EC2ED6@ripon.edu>
References: <10ae3.16d6d069.3857ef68@aol.com> <C74C0809.A4D4%grahamd@ripon.edu>
	<E1NKJBw-00040C-Nv@elasmtp-junco.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
	<4B2773F7.9080000@nut-n-but.net>
	<f160a1210912151011q642314e5h7507d15cc3a26ba4@mail.gmail.com>
	<4B2837E3.4000701@nut-n-but.net>
	<f160a1210912151758j7ac58fedj3c316409f77a1e0e@mail.gmail.com>
	<4B284208.9000906@nut-n-but.net>
	<f160a1210912151856n778e95a2m83c4db1cf133538@mail.gmail.com>
	<3AE26A59-7E8D-49C0-B40E-2B2A00EC2ED6@ripon.edu>
Message-ID: <b06d3f670912152004p7383284asf73744f59be2fb9e@mail.gmail.com>

Is that a fact?

c

On Tue, Dec 15, 2009 at 6:57 PM, David Graham <grahamd at ripon.edu> wrote:
> Senator Al Franken:
> "We're entitled to our own opinions, but we are not entitled to our own
> facts!"
>
>


From jeff.newberry at gmail.com  Wed Dec 16 07:20:13 2009
From: jeff.newberry at gmail.com (Jeff Newberry)
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2009 07:20:13 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Mainstreamery
In-Reply-To: <4B283D61.7090202@nut-n-but.net>
References: <12af9.7398f0f2.38580f69@aol.com>
	<8CC4B52BC47F807-528C-B9FB@webmail-d015.sysops.aol.com>
	<731bb17a0912150441q7813cdf5t301fe5343603cb2c@mail.gmail.com>
	<4B283D61.7090202@nut-n-but.net>
Message-ID: <731bb17a0912160420t4b2daefcxcc8611775b0d27e4@mail.gmail.com>

My goodness.  How to respond?

1.  Just because you don't *think *that Vendler's criticism has
"introduce[d] poetry of value to anyone with any familiarity with poetry in
English" doesn't mean that this ridiculous assumption is true.  You seem to
be privy to *everyone's *mind at all times.  Pray tell--how does one develop
such a skill?  Let me guess: since *you *think that Vendler is simplistic in
her thinking, then well by gosh by golly, I suppose *everyone *has to think
so, a well.  Otherwise, we're idiots, no?  And how can you *not *see how
ideologically loaded a phrase "poetry of value" is?  "Value" to whom?
"Value" for what?  Monetary value?  You often seem overly concerned with
money and awards, so perhaps that's what you're addressing.

2.  How on earth would you know that "her criticism [has] not help[ed]
anyone with any familiarity with Yeats and Stevens understand them"?  So,
you somehow know exactly what all readers of Vendler are thinking when they
read?  Or is that you yourself are the benchmark for "effective" criticism?


3.  Your assertion that Yeats is "easy to understand" reveals your problem:
you seem to think that your *opinion *equal objective fact.  Of course, you
are the one who wants to quantify art, so it makes sense that you'd confuse
the objective and subjective.

4.  Your ideas about the "mainstream" are just that:  *your *ideas.  Again:
objective fact vs. your self-constructed reality.  You see the world of art
is awfully simplistic terms:  "your" poetry and "my kind" of poetry.  Silly
and limiting, this kind of thinking undercuts any credibility that you might
have.  I think that all poets can learn a lot from all poets.  Me?  I think
that visual poetry is incredibly simplistic and I don't care much for what
I've seen.  But, I don't post long-winded rants about how "backwards" and
"uninteresting" these poets are.  And if a visual poet wins a prize or
publishes a book:  good on that person, I say.

5.  I'd ask you to be more specific about Perloff, a critic whom I've always
found illuminating, but you'd probably send me on some wild goose chase to
your blog or refer me to some screed that you posted on NewPoetry.  No
thanks.

6.  Your ideas about one critic's being "superior" to another makes me
picture a set of Topps Poetry Critic Cards.  "Well, last season, Perloff was
4 for 8 in 'interesting' criticism, but after the spring break, she seems
back at the top of her game."

7.  As far as "rating" mainstreamers (whatever the heck that means):  you
may not *think *that you hate anyone, Bob, but your dismissive attitude
toward most poets discussed at NewPoetry reveals some *very *negative
thoughts and feelings, if not hate.

Carry on, Bob.  Carry on.  I know that you will.

Jeff Newberry

On Tue, Dec 15, 2009 at 8:52 PM, Bob Grumman <bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net>wrote:

>  Jeff Newberry wrote:
>
> Yeah, because that's *exactly *what Jim suggested.  *Exactly*.  Your
> powers of observation are indeed astute.
>
> Exactly what Jim suggested was that Vendler has written criticism of value
> concerning Yeats and Stevens.  Exactly what I said back, albeit not
> directly, was that she has not written criticism of value concerning Yeats
> and Stevens; I indicated why: (1) her criticism did not introduce poetry of
> value to anyone with any familiarity with poetry in English; (2) her
> criticism did not help anyone with any familiarity with Yeats and Stevens
> understand them--because critics before her had already made them as
> understandable as poets can be, especially Yeats, who is easy to
> understand.  Vendler seems to have helped introduce a few poets like
> Ashbery, some perhaps of minor interest, but she's introduced no schools of
> poetry, or critical idea of any real interest.  I think she is always
> competent, however, which isn't true of Margie, who is nonetheless Vendler's
> superior because she has at least written about a few poets not mainstream
> when she wrote about them.  Bloom, the third bigtime mainstream critic is a
> much more interesting writer than either of them, but as limited in range as
> Vendler, and nearly as wrong as Perloff in his understanding of poetry.
> Vendler seems rarely wrong in what she says.
>
> --Bob
>
>
>
> Bob, your brand of dismissive hatred always gives me the warm fuzzies.
> Thanks.
>
> Jeff Newberry
>
> I'd certainly give it up if I didn't know that, Jeff.  (Note: not to
> criticize, but I think you might reflect on your tendency to consider those
> who don't rate some mainstreamer as high as you do as hating the
> mainstreamer.  I don't hate anyone, as far as I know.  I think I hate
> stupidity, though.)
>
> --Bob
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
>


-- 
You cannot tell people what to do, you can only tell them parables; and that
is what art really is, particular stories of particular people and
experience, from which each according to his own immediate and peculiar
needs may draw his own conclusion. --W.H. Auden
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From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net  Wed Dec 16 08:26:08 2009
From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman)
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2009 08:26:08 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Mainstreamery
In-Reply-To: <731bb17a0912160420t4b2daefcxcc8611775b0d27e4@mail.gmail.com>
References: <12af9.7398f0f2.38580f69@aol.com><8CC4B52BC47F807-528C-B9FB@webmail-d015.sysops.aol.com><731bb17a0912150441q7813cdf5t
	301fe5343603cb2c@mail.gmail.com><4B283D61.7090202@nut-n-but.net>
	<731bb17a0912160420t4b2daefcxcc8611775b0d27e4@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4B28DFF0.6080303@nut-n-but.net>

Jeff Newberry wrote:
> My goodness.  How to respond?
>
> 1.  Just because you don't /think /that Vendler's criticism has 
> "introduce[d] poetry of value to anyone with any familiarity with 
> poetry in English" doesn't mean that this ridiculous assumption is true.
You got me, Jeff.  There well may be a few strange people familiar with 
poetry in English who aren't aware of the poetry of Stevens, Yeats and 
Shakespeare.   I think I say in my reply to you that I acknowledge she 
may have helped introduce some poetry that would be obscure if not for 
her--but that it was not poetry of value.  That can be objectively shown 
the way it can be objectively shown (to people with functioning brains, 
that is) that Steven is a much better poet than Ginsberg.
>   You seem to be privy to /everyone's /mind at all times.  Pray 
> tell--how does one develop such a skill?
You don't.  Your genes either provide you with a brain capable of making 
intelligent inferences or it doesn't.

> Let me guess: since /you /think that Vendler is simplistic in her 
> thinking, then well by gosh by golly, I suppose /everyone /has to 
> think so, a well.
Calm down.  I didn't say she was simplistic in her thinking, only that 
she was superfluous in her thinking.  I don't think others have to agree 
with me on that, or on my view of, say, who wrote Shakespeare.  
(Shakespeare.)

>   Otherwise, we're idiots, no?
Not idiots.  More suggestible, narrow-minded stooges of the Establishment.

> And how can you /not /see how ideologically loaded a phrase "poetry of 
> value" is?  "Value" to whom?  "Value" for what?  Monetary value?  You 
> often seem overly concerned with money and awards, so perhaps that's 
> what you're addressing.
Aesthetic value.  I admit most people don't think this can be measured, 
but I believe it can.  Again, I can measure it well enough, and 
objectively enough, to establish that Stevens's poetry is better than 
Ginsberg's.  Or McKuen's.

>
> 2.  How on earth would you know that "her criticism [has] not help[ed] 
> anyone with any familiarity with Yeats and Stevens understand them"?  
> So, you somehow know exactly what all readers of Vendler are thinking 
> when they read?  Or is that you yourself are the benchmark for 
> "effective" criticism? 
>
The way I know that someone writing about the art of making scrambled 
eggs will not help any American with any familiarity with cooking.  
Except, yes, I'm polemically exaggerating.  No doubt there ARE Americans 
familiar with cooking who could be helped by an essay on how to scramble 
eggs.  It has to do with knowing what poetry is.  And, of course, I'm 
not talking about trivial details like the fact that maybe in some poem 
Yeats was talking about a friend of us few people would be familiar with.
> 3.  Your assertion that Yeats is "easy to understand" reveals your 
> problem:  you seem to think that your /opinion /equal objective fact.  
> Of course, you are the one who wants to quantify art, so it makes 
> sense that you'd confuse the objective and subjective.
>
My opinions don't equal objective fact, but my view in this case is 
factual, obtained by reading Yeats and figuring out what he means, and 
checking my understanding of him against several critics who have 
written about him and finding that my understanding seems to me to match 
theirs, and noting that the later critics are saying nothing new of 
consequence about him.  Also, knowing what poetry is, what its 
constituents are, helps.  I can list everything his poems have.  I 
suspect even you could do that. 

> 4.  Your ideas about the "mainstream" are just that:  /your /ideas.  
> Again:  objective fact vs. your self-constructed reality.  You see the 
> world of art is awfully simplistic terms:  "your" poetry and "my kind" 
> of poetry.
You still can't drop this stupid misrepresentation of where I am.  
Simplistic.  Read my taxonomy.  Show me anyone else who divides poetry 
less simplistically.  Your estabniks are th simplistic ones; dividing 
standard free verse into numerous categories (most of which I'd divide 
it, too) but ignoring dozens of equally specialized kinds of poetry 
outside what I call the knownstream (where poetry not known or only 
poorly known by the huge majority of academics is).


> Silly and limiting, this kind of thinking undercuts any credibility 
> that you might have.
You long ago established I have no credibility, Jeff.  Never have had 
with your kind of poetry people.

> I think that all poets can learn a lot from all poets.  Me?  I think 
> that visual poetry is incredibly simplistic and I don't care much for 
> what I've seen.  But, I don't post long-winded rants about how 
> "backwards" and "uninteresting" these poets are.  And if a visual poet 
> wins a prize or publishes a book:  good on that person, I say. 
>
I note you've never shown why visual poetry is "incredibly simplistic."
> 5.  I'd ask you to be more specific about Perloff, a critic whom I've 
> always found illuminating, but you'd probably send me on some wild 
> goose chase to your blog or refer me to some screed that you posted on 
> NewPoetry.  No thanks.
I couldn't even do that as I've never written about her.  In informal 
discussions, I think it permissible to express an impression not based 
on much more than random reading. 

One thing you need to understand about people like me, Jeff--people who 
respond negatively to poets certified by the establishment in ways that 
seem as subjective as the gush of most of the many more people who 
respond positively is that we are a nearly invisible minority so have to 
be loud and sometimes extreme to be seen.
>
> 6.  Your ideas about one critic's being "superior" to another makes me 
> picture a set of Topps Poetry Critic Cards.  "Well, last season, 
> Perloff was 4 for 8 in 'interesting' criticism, but after the spring 
> break, she seems back at the top of her game."
>
Right.  All critics are equal.  Ooops, all critics having the blessings 
of the universities, the mainstream publications, the backing of 
grants-awarding operations, and the commercial presses are equal.  And 
we should certain eschew . . . rating them.
> 7.  As far as "rating" mainstreamers (whatever the heck that means):
I've told you many times: the contemporaries you teach.

> you may not /think /that you hate anyone, Bob, but your dismissive 
> attitude toward most poets discussed at NewPoetry reveals some /very 
> /negative thoughts and feelings, if not hate. 
>
If I say Fords are lousy cars, do I hate them?  (And I actually have no 
particular opinion on Fords or any other cars.)  Of course, being 
negative about a group of people who have had a part in keeping me 
invisible and under the poverty line is vile enough even if not quite 
"hatred."
> Carry on, Bob.  Carry on.  I know that you will.
>
> Jeff Newberry
Believe it or not, it gets harder every year.  Even people like me need 
a little acceptance & understanding.

--Bob
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From jbalizsprince at googlemail.com  Wed Dec 16 08:30:41 2009
From: jbalizsprince at googlemail.com (Judy Prince)
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2009 08:30:41 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Mainstreamery
In-Reply-To: <4B28DFF0.6080303@nut-n-but.net>
References: <12af9.7398f0f2.38580f69@aol.com>
	<8CC4B52BC47F807-528C-B9FB@webmail-d015.sysops.aol.com>
	<4B283D61.7090202@nut-n-but.net>
	<731bb17a0912160420t4b2daefcxcc8611775b0d27e4@mail.gmail.com>
	<4B28DFF0.6080303@nut-n-but.net>
Message-ID: <7db1d01b0912160530r1a23112fx947d54dbf794e5f2@mail.gmail.com>

I totally agree with you and give you a Glasgow kiss ["pit thi heid 'n yi"],
Bob.  Oh wait.  I forgot to read anything on this thread!!!!

joodles

2009/12/16 Bob Grumman <bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net>

>  Jeff Newberry wrote:
>
> My goodness.  How to respond?
>
> 1.  Just because you don't *think *that Vendler's criticism has
> "introduce[d] poetry of value to anyone with any familiarity with poetry in
> English" doesn't mean that this ridiculous assumption is true.
>
> You got me, Jeff.  There well may be a few strange people familiar with
> poetry in English who aren't aware of the poetry of Stevens, Yeats and
> Shakespeare.   I think I say in my reply to you that I acknowledge she may
> have helped introduce some poetry that would be obscure if not for her--but
> that it was not poetry of value.  That can be objectively shown the way it
> can be objectively shown (to people with functioning brains, that is) that
> Steven is a much better poet than Ginsberg.
>
>   You seem to be privy to *everyone's *mind at all times.  Pray tell--how
> does one develop such a skill?
>
> You don't.  Your genes either provide you with a brain capable of making
> intelligent inferences or it doesn't.
>
>
> Let me guess: since *you *think that Vendler is simplistic in her
> thinking, then well by gosh by golly, I suppose *everyone *has to think
> so, a well.
>
> Calm down.  I didn't say she was simplistic in her thinking, only that she
> was superfluous in her thinking.  I don't think others have to agree with me
> on that, or on my view of, say, who wrote Shakespeare.  (Shakespeare.)
>
>
>   Otherwise, we're idiots, no?
>
> Not idiots.  More suggestible, narrow-minded stooges of the Establishment.
>
>
> And how can you *not *see how ideologically loaded a phrase "poetry of
> value" is?  "Value" to whom?  "Value" for what?  Monetary value?  You often
> seem overly concerned with money and awards, so perhaps that's what you're
> addressing.
>
> Aesthetic value.  I admit most people don't think this can be measured, but
> I believe it can.  Again, I can measure it well enough, and objectively
> enough, to establish that Stevens's poetry is better than Ginsberg's.  Or
> McKuen's.
>
>
>
> 2.  How on earth would you know that "her criticism [has] not help[ed]
> anyone with any familiarity with Yeats and Stevens understand them"?  So,
> you somehow know exactly what all readers of Vendler are thinking when they
> read?  Or is that you yourself are the benchmark for "effective" criticism?
>
>
>  The way I know that someone writing about the art of making scrambled eggs
> will not help any American with any familiarity with cooking.  Except, yes,
> I'm polemically exaggerating.  No doubt there ARE Americans familiar with
> cooking who could be helped by an essay on how to scramble eggs.  It has to
> do with knowing what poetry is.  And, of course, I'm not talking about
> trivial details like the fact that maybe in some poem Yeats was talking
> about a friend of us few people would be familiar with.
>
> 3.  Your assertion that Yeats is "easy to understand" reveals your
> problem:  you seem to think that your *opinion *equal objective fact.  Of
> course, you are the one who wants to quantify art, so it makes sense that
> you'd confuse the objective and subjective.
>
>  My opinions don't equal objective fact, but my view in this case is
> factual, obtained by reading Yeats and figuring out what he means, and
> checking my understanding of him against several critics who have written
> about him and finding that my understanding seems to me to match theirs, and
> noting that the later critics are saying nothing new of consequence about
> him.  Also, knowing what poetry is, what its constituents are, helps.  I can
> list everything his poems have.  I suspect even you could do that.
>
> 4.  Your ideas about the "mainstream" are just that:  *your *ideas.
> Again:  objective fact vs. your self-constructed reality.  You see the world
> of art is awfully simplistic terms:  "your" poetry and "my kind" of poetry.
>
> You still can't drop this stupid misrepresentation of where I am.
> Simplistic.  Read my taxonomy.  Show me anyone else who divides poetry less
> simplistically.  Your estabniks are th simplistic ones; dividing standard
> free verse into numerous categories (most of which I'd divide it, too) but
> ignoring dozens of equally specialized kinds of poetry outside what I call
> the knownstream (where poetry not known or only poorly known by the huge
> majority of academics is).
>
>
>
> Silly and limiting, this kind of thinking undercuts any credibility that
> you might have.
>
> You long ago established I have no credibility, Jeff.  Never have had with
> your kind of poetry people.
>
>
> I think that all poets can learn a lot from all poets.  Me?  I think that
> visual poetry is incredibly simplistic and I don't care much for what I've
> seen.  But, I don't post long-winded rants about how "backwards" and
> "uninteresting" these poets are.  And if a visual poet wins a prize or
> publishes a book:  good on that person, I say.
>
>  I note you've never shown why visual poetry is "incredibly simplistic."
>
> 5.  I'd ask you to be more specific about Perloff, a critic whom I've
> always found illuminating, but you'd probably send me on some wild goose
> chase to your blog or refer me to some screed that you posted on NewPoetry.
> No thanks.
>
> I couldn't even do that as I've never written about her.  In informal
> discussions, I think it permissible to express an impression not based on
> much more than random reading.
>
> One thing you need to understand about people like me, Jeff--people who
> respond negatively to poets certified by the establishment in ways that seem
> as subjective as the gush of most of the many more people who respond
> positively is that we are a nearly invisible minority so have to be loud and
> sometimes extreme to be seen.
>
>
> 6.  Your ideas about one critic's being "superior" to another makes me
> picture a set of Topps Poetry Critic Cards.  "Well, last season, Perloff was
> 4 for 8 in 'interesting' criticism, but after the spring break, she seems
> back at the top of her game."
>
>  Right.  All critics are equal.  Ooops, all critics having the blessings of
> the universities, the mainstream publications, the backing of
> grants-awarding operations, and the commercial presses are equal.  And we
> should certain eschew . . . rating them.
>
> 7.  As far as "rating" mainstreamers (whatever the heck that means):
>
> I've told you many times: the contemporaries you teach.
>
>
>  you may not *think *that you hate anyone, Bob, but your dismissive
> attitude toward most poets discussed at NewPoetry reveals some *very *negative
> thoughts and feelings, if not hate.
>
>  If I say Fords are lousy cars, do I hate them?  (And I actually have no
> particular opinion on Fords or any other cars.)  Of course, being negative
> about a group of people who have had a part in keeping me invisible and
> under the poverty line is vile enough even if not quite "hatred."
>
> Carry on, Bob.  Carry on.  I know that you will.
>
> Jeff Newberry
>
> Believe it or not, it gets harder every year.  Even people like me need a
> little acceptance & understanding.
>
> --Bob
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
>
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From AlMaginnes at aol.com  Wed Dec 16 08:32:00 2009
From: AlMaginnes at aol.com (AlMaginnes at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2009 08:32:00 EST
Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Mainstreamery
Message-ID: <cf5.64b130a9.385a3b50@aol.com>

 
In a message dated 12/16/2009 7:20:54 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,  
jeff.newberry at gmail.com writes:

6.   Your ideas about one critic's being "superior" to another makes me 
picture a  set of Topps Poetry Critic Cards.  "Well, last season, Perloff was 4 
for  8 in 'interesting' criticism, but after the spring break, she seems 
back at  the top of her game."





When I was a waiter at Breadloaf right after the invention of the light  
bulb (but long, fortunately, after man discovered how to distill grain into  
spirituous liquids, one ok my fellow waiters used to joke that he wanted to 
hold  up scorecards after the reading of a poem, as judges did after a 
gymnastics or  figure skating routine in that pre-electronic age. Come the night 
of the  waiters' reading, after his first poem, some of the waitrons held up 
scorecards.  as I recall his score was about 8.9.
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From grahamd at ripon.edu  Wed Dec 16 08:48:30 2009
From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham)
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2009 07:48:30 -0600
Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Mainstreamery
In-Reply-To: <cf5.64b130a9.385a3b50@aol.com>
References: <cf5.64b130a9.385a3b50@aol.com>
Message-ID: <5026F8DB-4433-4F1A-9A52-44C6F8D5478A@ripon.edu>



On Dec 16, 2009, at 7:32 AM, AlMaginnes at aol.com wrote:

> When I was a waiter at Breadloaf right after the invention of the light bulb (but long, fortunately, after man discovered how to distill grain into spirituous liquids, one ok my fellow waiters used to joke that he wanted to hold up scorecards after the reading of a poem, as judges did after a gymnastics or figure skating routine in that pre-electronic age. Come the night of the waiters' reading, after his first poem, some of the waitrons held up scorecards. as I recall his score was about 8.9.
--------------------------

Geez, Al, what year was this, exactly?  You guys may have invented slam before it was invented in Chicago by Marc Smith. . . .

I also attended Bread Loaf back in its paleolithic past, and once was enough.  Among other things, it gave me an apparently permanent chip on my shoulder about how the most celebrated poets usually give the least value in terms of teaching, performance, and so forth.  But Bread Loaf then was a fairly warped place.  Haven't been back, but I've been told it's highly improved.


========================================
David Graham
grahamd at ripon.edu

Home Page:
http://web.me.com/drjazz

Poetry Library:
http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html
==========================================



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From almaginnes at aol.com  Wed Dec 16 09:41:49 2009
From: almaginnes at aol.com (almaginnes at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2009 09:41:49 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Mainstreamery
In-Reply-To: <5026F8DB-4433-4F1A-9A52-44C6F8D5478A@ripon.edu>
References: <cf5.64b130a9.385a3b50@aol.com>
	<5026F8DB-4433-4F1A-9A52-44C6F8D5478A@ripon.edu>
Message-ID: <8CC4C7508883727-8A48-341B@webmail-m043.sysops.aol.com>

I was there in 87, a while after the invention of slam I think. I came away with pretty much hte same attitude you did, David, although I have to say that my workshop leader, Donald Justice, was well prepared and concientous. I had a conference with him about my tired little poems that I will remember on my death bed. But once was enough. In recent years my attitude is that since my time is limited--I teach summers as well as during the school year--if I have a couple of weeks free, I want to spend them relaxing with my family, not sniffing the asses of those higher than me on the literary totem pole. I've been told this is a bad attitude. So be it.



-----Original Message-----
From: David Graham <grahamd at ripon.edu>
Sent: Wed, Dec 16, 2009 8:48 am
Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Mainstreamery






On Dec 16, 2009, at 7:32 AM, AlMaginnes at aol.com wrote:


When I was a waiter at Breadloaf right after the invention of the light bulb (but long, fortunately, after man discovered how to distill grain into spirituous liquids, one ok my fellow waiters used to joke that he wanted to hold up scorecards after the reading of a poem, as judges did after a gymnastics or figure skating routine in that pre-electronic age. Come the night of the waiters' reading, after his first poem, some of the waitrons held up scorecards. as I recall his score was about 8.9.
--------------------------


Geez, Al, what year was this, exactly?  You guys may have invented slam before it was invented in Chicago by Marc Smith. . . .


I also attended Bread Loaf back in its paleolithic past, and once was enough.  Among other things, it gave me an apparently permanent chip on my shoulder about how the most celebrated poets usually give the least value in terms of teaching, performance, and so forth.  But Bread Loaf then was a fairly warped place.  Haven't been back, but I've been told it's highly improved.





========================================
David Graham
grahamd at ripon.edu


Home Page:
http://web.me.com/drjazz


Poetry Library:
http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html
==========================================






= 

_______________________________________________
ew-Poetry mailing list
ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry

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From grahamd at ripon.edu  Wed Dec 16 09:52:49 2009
From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham)
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2009 08:52:49 -0600
Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Mainstreamery
In-Reply-To: <8CC4C7508883727-8A48-341B@webmail-m043.sysops.aol.com>
References: <cf5.64b130a9.385a3b50@aol.com>
	<5026F8DB-4433-4F1A-9A52-44C6F8D5478A@ripon.edu>
	<8CC4C7508883727-8A48-341B@webmail-m043.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <939D0807-089D-46E0-BC37-343657E823BB@ripon.edu>

Wow--I attended Bread Loaf even before that. . . .  It was 1981 or so, I think.  Justice was there, and was an exception to the rule of most famous/most lazy, but others were pretty bad.  I'll always remember a remark Justice made in a workshop, referring to the highly jagged enjambments of a young poet who later became quite well known.  "I got tired of *interesting* linebreaks," he remarked, "in 1919."  

Maybe it says something about me that I mostly remember quips.  Marvin Bell, in another workshop, beautifully squelched one of those pointless discussions that most workshops eventually fall into, regarding whether or not some technique or other was outmoded by remarking with a small smile, "Wouldn't it be great if there were RULES?"


========================================
David Graham
grahamd at ripon.edu

Home Page:
http://web.me.com/drjazz

Poetry Library:
http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html
==========================================




On Dec 16, 2009, at 8:41 AM, AlMaginnes at aol.com wrote:

> I was there in 87, a while after the invention of slam I think. I came away with pretty much hte same attitude you did, David, although I have to say that my workshop leader, Donald Justice, was well prepared and concientous. I had a conference with him about my tired little poems that I will remember on my death bed. But once was enough. In recent years my attitude is that since my time is limited--I teach summers as well as during the school year--if I have a couple of weeks free, I want to spend them relaxing with my family, not sniffing the asses of those higher than me on the literary totem pole. I've been told this is a bad attitude. So be it.
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: David Graham <grahamd at ripon.edu>
> Sent: Wed, Dec 16, 2009 8:48 am
> Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Mainstreamery
> 
> 
> 
> On Dec 16, 2009, at 7:32 AM, AlMaginnes at aol.com wrote:
> 
>> When I was a waiter at Breadloaf right after the invention of the light bulb (but long, fortunately, after man discovered how to distill grain into spirituous liquids, one ok my fellow waiters used to joke that he wanted to hold up scorecards after the reading of a poem, as judges did after a gymnastics or figure skating routine in that pre-electronic age. Come the night of the waiters' reading, after his first poem, some of the waitrons held up scorecards. as I recall his score was about 8.9.
> --------------------------
> 
> Geez, Al, what year was this, exactly?  You guys may have invented slam before it was invented in Chicago by Marc Smith. . . .
> 
> I also attended Bread Loaf back in its paleolithic past, and once was enough.  Among other things, it gave me an apparently permanent chip on my shoulder about how the most celebrated poets usually give the least value in terms of teaching, performance, and so forth.  But Bread Loaf then was a fairly warped place.  Haven't been back, but I've been told it's highly improved.
> 
> 
> ========================================
> David Graham
> grahamd at ripon.edu
> 
> Home Page:
> http://web.me.com/drjazz
> 
> Poetry Library:
> http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html
> ==========================================
> 
> 
> 
> =
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry

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From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net  Wed Dec 16 10:12:34 2009
From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman)
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2009 10:12:34 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Mainstreamery
In-Reply-To: <939D0807-089D-46E0-BC37-343657E823BB@ripon.edu>
References: <cf5.64b130a9.385a3b50@aol.com><5026F8DB-4433-4F1A-9A52-44C6F8D5478A@ripon.edu><8CC4C7508883727-8A48-341B@webmail-m04
	3.sysops.aol.com> <939D0807-089D-46E0-BC37-343657E823BB@ripon.edu>
Message-ID: <4B28F8E2.3050409@nut-n-but.net>

David Graham wrote:
> Wow--I attended Bread Loaf even before that. . . .  It was 1981 or so, 
> I think.  Justice was there, and was an exception to the rule of most 
> famous/most lazy, but others were pretty bad.  I'll always remember a 
> remark Justice made in a workshop, referring to the highly jagged 
> enjambments of a young poet who later became quite well known.  "I got 
> tired of *interesting* linebreaks," he remarked, "in 1919." 
Yeeks, imagine what Jeff would say if I said something like that.  Wait, 
I have said things like that. . . .  But not at an event like Bread Loaf 
as a workshop leader, where it's allowed.  As for line-breaks and 
Justice, I think he got tired of anything not commonly done before 1919 
by 1920.  Hey, I still consider him a superior poet, Jeff.

--Bob



From grahamd at ripon.edu  Wed Dec 16 10:14:32 2009
From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham)
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2009 09:14:32 -0600
Subject: [New-Poetry] Wm. Matthews
Message-ID: <C41087ED-B7B0-4F5C-8F3C-A6F494B33F78@ripon.edu>

Thinking of Bread Loaf, I remembered an elegy I wrote for William Matthews.  I was never his student, but encountered him several times at writing conferences, including Bread Loaf, and was in a couple conference workshops that he led.  I also had a manuscript conference with him at Bread Loaf, which was one of the most disappointing experiences of my writing life.  He hadn't bothered to read my poems, and just winged it.   Also brought along two other disciple poets to banter with during our supposedly one-on-one meeting, I presume so that he wouldn't be stuck with just me.  I was much younger then, and admired Matthews absurdly, and so I was more hurt than angry, at least at first.  The anger came later.  These days I would tell such a poet to shove it.  Having spent three decades now in the teaching game, I find I have no patience for lazy arrogance in teachers.

Still, I eventually got over my anger.  I admire Matthews's poetry greatly to this day.  He was a most complicated guy, and I gather he could be a great teacher when he wanted to be.  He was so naturally brilliant and glib that I suspect he spent a great deal of his life winging it, and often getting away with that.   

Anyway, here's the poem I wrote after he died.  I omitted all my hurt feelings, and just tried to sketch a sympathetic portrait of his complications, from my admittedly distanced and limited perspective.  The poem was published in Ed Byrne's invaluable *Valparaiso Poetry Review*:

http://www.valpo.edu/vpr/grahamcold.html



========================================
David Graham
grahamd at ripon.edu

Home Page:
http://web.me.com/drjazz

Poetry Library:
http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html
==========================================




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From cvoisine at nmsu.edu  Wed Dec 16 10:20:41 2009
From: cvoisine at nmsu.edu (Connie Voisine)
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2009 07:20:41 -0800
Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Mainstreamery
In-Reply-To: <8CC4C7508883727-8A48-341B@webmail-m043.sysops.aol.com>
References: <cf5.64b130a9.385a3b50@aol.com>
	<5026F8DB-4433-4F1A-9A52-44C6F8D5478A@ripon.edu>
	<8CC4C7508883727-8A48-341B@webmail-m043.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <36cb1de80912160720o31374f5emd8f8603042efbd79@mail.gmail.com>

i was there two years ago, as ed hirsh's fellow, and had a wonderful time.
it was poetry heaven, really. the readings were great (louise gluck, ed,
heather mchugh, ellen voigt etc). i loved the workshop students, etc. i did
not have the sense of what i used to hear about it 20 years ago
(hierarchies, 'bedloaf') though i did have a toddler with me which limited
my social interractions. maybe it's the best way to go to breadloaf...

cc


On 12/16/09, almaginnes at aol.com <almaginnes at aol.com> wrote:
>
> I was there in 87, a while after the invention of slam I think. I came away
> with pretty much hte same attitude you did, David, although I have to say
> that my workshop leader, Donald Justice, was well prepared and concientous.
> I had a conference with him about my tired little poems that I will remember
> on my death bed. But once was enough. In recent years my attitude is that
> since my time is limited--I teach summers as well as during the school
> year--if I have a couple of weeks free, I want to spend them relaxing with
> my family, not sniffing the asses of those higher than me on the literary
> totem pole. I've been told this is a bad attitude. So be it.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: David Graham <grahamd at ripon.edu>
> Sent: Wed, Dec 16, 2009 8:48 am
> Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Mainstreamery
>
>
>
>
>  On Dec 16, 2009, at 7:32 AM, AlMaginnes at aol.com wrote:
>
> When I was a waiter at Breadloaf right after the invention of the light
> bulb (but long, fortunately, after man discovered how to distill grain into
> spirituous liquids, one ok my fellow waiters used to joke that he wanted to
> hold up scorecards after the reading of a poem, as judges did after a
> gymnastics or figure skating routine in that pre-electronic age. Come the
> night of the waiters' reading, after his first poem, some of the waitrons
> held up scorecards. as I recall his score was about 8.9.
>
> --------------------------
>
>
> Geez, Al, what year was this, exactly?  You guys may have invented slam
> before it was invented in Chicago by Marc Smith. . . .
>
>
> I also attended Bread Loaf back in its paleolithic past, and once was
> enough.  Among other things, it gave me an apparently permanent chip on my
> shoulder about how the most celebrated poets usually give the least value in
> terms of teaching, performance, and so forth.  But Bread Loaf then was a
> fairly warped place.  Haven't been back, but I've been told it's highly
> improved.
>
>
> ========================================
> David Graham
> grahamd at ripon.edu
>
>
> Home Page:
> http://web.me.com/drjazz
>
>
> Poetry Library:
> http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html
> ==========================================
>
>
>
> =
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing listNew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.eduhttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
>


-- 
Connie Voisine
Associate Professor of English
New Mexico State University
cvoisine at nmsu.edu
575-646-2027
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From almaginnes at aol.com  Wed Dec 16 10:20:29 2009
From: almaginnes at aol.com (almaginnes at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2009 10:20:29 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Wm. Matthews
In-Reply-To: <C41087ED-B7B0-4F5C-8F3C-A6F494B33F78@ripon.edu>
References: <C41087ED-B7B0-4F5C-8F3C-A6F494B33F78@ripon.edu>
Message-ID: <8CC4C7A6F5726E6-4C44-3B9C@webmail-d096.sysops.aol.com>

Matthews was there when I was and I remember a friend who had a conference with him saying much the same thing--right down to the two disciples sitting in on the conference. Mostly Matthews seemed interested in drinking and chasing tail and it was some years before I could read him with any pleasure again after that. Usually I don't hold one bad performance against someone, but I was more familiar with his work than anyone else's on the faculty, except for Justice, and I expected a bit more than what I saw. 



-----Original Message-----
From: David Graham <grahamd at ripon.edu>
To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu &amp; Views <new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
Sent: Wed, Dec 16, 2009 10:14 am
Subject: [New-Poetry] Wm. Matthews


Thinking of Bread Loaf, I remembered an elegy I wrote for William Matthews.  I was never his student, but encountered him several times at writing conferences, including Bread Loaf, and was in a couple conference workshops that he led.  I also had a manuscript conference with him at Bread Loaf, which was one of the most disappointing experiences of my writing life.  He hadn't bothered to read my poems, and just winged it.   Also brought along two other disciple poets to banter with during our supposedly one-on-one meeting, I presume so that he wouldn't be stuck with just me.  I was much younger then, and admired Matthews absurdly, and so I was more hurt than angry, at least at first.  The anger came later.  These days I would tell such a poet to shove it.  Having spent three decades now in the teaching game, I find I have no patience for lazy arrogance in teachers.


Still, I eventually got over my anger.  I admire Matthews's poetry greatly to this day.  He was a most complicated guy, and I gather he could be a great teacher when he wanted to be.  He was so naturally brilliant and glib that I suspect he spent a great deal of his life winging it, and often getting away with that.   


Anyway, here's the poem I wrote after he died.  I omitted all my hurt feelings, and just tried to sketch a sympathetic portrait of his complications, from my admittedly distanced and limited perspective.  The poem was published in Ed Byrne's invaluable *Valparaiso Poetry Review*:


http://www.valpo.edu/vpr/grahamcold.html







========================================
David Graham
grahamd at ripon.edu


Home Page:
http://web.me.com/drjazz


Poetry Library:
http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html
==========================================







= 

_______________________________________________
ew-Poetry mailing list
ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry

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From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net  Wed Dec 16 10:33:25 2009
From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman)
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2009 10:33:25 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Mainstreamery
In-Reply-To: <731bb17a0912160420t4b2daefcxcc8611775b0d27e4@mail.gmail.com>
References: <12af9.7398f0f2.38580f69@aol.com><8CC4B52BC47F807-528C-B9FB@webmail-d015.sysops.aol.com><731bb17a0912150441q7813cdf5t
	301fe5343603cb2c@mail.gmail.com><4B283D61.7090202@nut-n-but.net>
	<731bb17a0912160420t4b2daefcxcc8611775b0d27e4@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4B28FDC5.7010408@nut-n-but.net>

An image struck me: a river with most of the people who post here 
floating along with the current in the middle of the river, and me, 
running along a bank of the river getting filthy and every once in a 
while jumping into the river slightly ahead of the people in the middle 
of it, and splashing furiously, sending dirty water every which way.  
The ones in the middle of the river grimace but float on, except that 
every once in a while one of them gets upset enough to splash back at me.

Announcement: I have a new poem at my blog, poeticks.com.  I wouldn't  
expect many here to catch on to it, not because they're dense but 
because the poem is too different from other poems for anyone easily to 
grasp.  It has nothing to do with mathematics, by the way--but a lot to 
do with numbers. It has two (compatible) basic meanings, one inspired by 
Stevens, the other by Robert Lax.

--Bob G.





From halvard at gmail.com  Wed Dec 16 11:05:13 2009
From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson)
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2009 10:05:13 -0600
Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Mainstreamery
In-Reply-To: <4B28FDC5.7010408@nut-n-but.net>
References: <12af9.7398f0f2.38580f69@aol.com>
	<8CC4B52BC47F807-528C-B9FB@webmail-d015.sysops.aol.com>
	<4B283D61.7090202@nut-n-but.net>
	<731bb17a0912160420t4b2daefcxcc8611775b0d27e4@mail.gmail.com>
	<4B28FDC5.7010408@nut-n-but.net>
Message-ID: <f160a1210912160805s5cd0efa8m8acd0d99b8b1ac35@mail.gmail.com>

As to that image: it didn't strike you hard enough,
it seems.

Hal

"We don't serve fine wine in half-pints, buddy."
                  --Robert Ashley

Halvard Johnson
================
halvard at gmail.com
http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home
http://entropyandme.blogspot.com
http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com
http://www.hamiltonstone.org


On Wed, Dec 16, 2009 at 9:33 AM, Bob Grumman <bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net>wrote:

> An image struck me: a river with most of the people who post here floating
> along with the current in the middle of the river, and me, running along a
> bank of the river getting filthy and every once in a while jumping into the
> river slightly ahead of the people in the middle of it, and splashing
> furiously, sending dirty water every which way.  The ones in the middle of
> the river grimace but float on, except that every once in a while one of
> them gets upset enough to splash back at me.
>
> Announcement: I have a new poem at my blog, poeticks.com.  I wouldn't
>  expect many here to catch on to it, not because they're dense but because
> the poem is too different from other poems for anyone easily to grasp.  It
> has nothing to do with mathematics, by the way--but a lot to do with
> numbers. It has two (compatible) basic meanings, one inspired by Stevens,
> the other by Robert Lax.
>
> --Bob G.
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
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From barry.spacks at verizon.net  Wed Dec 16 11:44:35 2009
From: barry.spacks at verizon.net (Barry Spacks)
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2009 08:44:35 -0800
Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: a Cryptocomiconiku
In-Reply-To: <200912161429.nBGETYDO003871@wiz.cath.vt.edu>
References: <200912161429.nBGETYDO003871@wiz.cath.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <E2C06288-2B27-4A1A-870D-32B84ACB6CDD@verizon.net>


On Dec 16, 2009, at 6:29 AM, Our Bully-Bob wrote:

> Announcement: I have a new poem at my blog, poeticks.com.

Dear Bob, I studied your piece and did come away with
admiration for its clarity.

In fact it gave me the urge to comment in kind with the following
"poem-blurb" in appreciation if you will (dedicated to Hal).

	11187  1215  1  1  1

I also had a go at Graham's posted Matthews elegy, but It's full of  
words.

wishing you a surfeit of desires (honestly),

Barry




From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net  Wed Dec 16 12:07:22 2009
From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman)
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2009 12:07:22 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: a Cryptocomiconiku
In-Reply-To: <E2C06288-2B27-4A1A-870D-32B84ACB6CDD@verizon.net>
References: <200912161429.nBGETYDO003871@wiz.cath.vt.edu>
	<E2C06288-2B27-4A1A-870D-32B84ACB6CDD@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <4B2913CA.3060403@nut-n-but.net>

Barry Spacks wrote:
>
> On Dec 16, 2009, at 6:29 AM, Our Bully-Bob wrote:
>
>> Announcement: I have a new poem at my blog, poeticks.com.
>
> Dear Bob, I studied your piece and did come away with
> admiration for its clarity.

Actually, its surface message is extremely clear to those who do 
cryptogram puzzles, Barry.
>
> In fact it gave me the urge to comment in kind with the following
> "poem-blurb" in appreciation if you will (dedicated to Hal).
>
>     11187  1215  1  1  1
Is this a cryptographiku?  I said what mine was to help those visiting 
it to understand it.  I also gave mine a title, but that will help only 
with understanding one of the two central metaphors the poem is 
dependent on.

I have to say I don't understand your "poem-blurb," but am humble enough 
to be sure you, like I, are seriously making an effort to make a poem, 
so feel it's quite possible that the fact that the poem seems obscure to 
me is my fault, not its, and that once a Vendler comes around to help 
me, I'll understand and appreciate it.

>
> I also had a go at Graham's posted Matthews elegy, but It's full of 
> words.
>
> wishing you a surfeit of desires (honestly),
Mine is nothing but words, too, Barry.

--Bob



From amyhappens at yahoo.com  Wed Dec 16 13:51:39 2009
From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king)
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2009 10:51:39 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [New-Poetry] Latin American vs. French Surrealism - Mark W?
Message-ID: <789681.450.qm@web83306.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>



This might be up Mark's alley -- do you think the distinction Young gives below a la Bly is right on?

Also, where is the link to purchase your new anthology?



FROM INTERVIEW WITH DEAN YOUNG:

The quality of invention is at the core of Surrealist poetry, the importance not only aesthetically but also philosophically of the imagination.

Robert Bly is really good about pointing out the difference between French Surrealism and Latin American Surrealism. He points out, and I think he?s right on the mark, that Latin American Surrealism has a whole bunch of emotive force behind it. Whereas with French Surrealists, they?re French after all. Surrealism arrived in the world not as a mode of artistic production, but as a means of transforming consciousness. So the imagination plays a more active role in our being. So I return to their poetry to get brushed up, to get the cobwebs knocked out of me. It always seems fresh and dynamic and exciting and unpredictable.

http://www.thepedestalmagazine.com/gallery.php?item=6809


      



From barry.spacks at verizon.net  Wed Dec 16 13:52:08 2009
From: barry.spacks at verizon.net (Barry Spacks)
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2009 10:52:08 -0800
Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: luxuriating in numbers
In-Reply-To: <200912161700.nBGH05DO005889@wiz.cath.vt.edu>
References: <200912161700.nBGH05DO005889@wiz.cath.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <D29569EE-1799-4F97-A71C-359CC9F7B3BF@verizon.net>


On Dec 16, 2009, at 9:00 AM, Bob wrote (with great forbearance)

> Mine is nothing but words, too, Barry.
>
    via the Enigma Machine? (after all, it won the Great War).

    honestly baffled by much that transpires,

Barry


From junction at earthlink.net  Wed Dec 16 14:10:03 2009
From: junction at earthlink.net (Mark Weiss)
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2009 14:10:03 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Latin American vs. French Surrealism - Mark W?
In-Reply-To: <789681.450.qm@web83306.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
References: <789681.450.qm@web83306.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <E1NKzGL-000790-OB@elasmtp-masked.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

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From anny.ballardini at gmail.com  Wed Dec 16 15:45:07 2009
From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2009 21:45:07 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] cell phones
Message-ID: <4b65c2d70912161245i11539a8ej88e9fb0a2771406@mail.gmail.com>

According to the Cellular Telecommunications Industry
Association<http://www.ctia.org/>,
specific absorption rate, or SAR, is "a way of measuring the quantity of
radio frequency (RF) energy that is absorbed by the body."
http://reviews.cnet.com/cell-phone-radiation-levels/?tag=centerColumnArea3.0
and for the 20 highest-radiation cell phones in the States:
http://reviews.cnet.com/2719-6602_7-291-2.html?tag=page;page



-- 
Anny Ballardini
http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078
http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html
I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing
star!
Friedrich Nietzsche

? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique
vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ?
Giovenale
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From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net  Wed Dec 16 15:55:04 2009
From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman)
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2009 15:55:04 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: luxuriating in numbers
In-Reply-To: <D29569EE-1799-4F97-A71C-359CC9F7B3BF@verizon.net>
References: <200912161700.nBGH05DO005889@wiz.cath.vt.edu>
	<D29569EE-1799-4F97-A71C-359CC9F7B3BF@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <4B294928.4010903@nut-n-but.net>

Barry Spacks wrote:
>
> On Dec 16, 2009, at 9:00 AM, Bob wrote (with great forbearance)
>
>> Mine is nothing but words, too, Barry.
>>
>    via the Enigma Machine? (after all, it won the Great War).
>
>    honestly baffled by much that transpires,
Thanks for saying so, Barry.  I'll give further clues tomorrow at my 
blog and a full solution to the thing (which is a puzzle as well as a 
poem, in my view) the next day.  It's VERY simple, but the kind of thing 
I believe almost no one would guess because so weird.  The few who might 
guess, I suspect, would almost certainly not appreciate the solution as 
a poem.  It may only be a gadget, something that fulfills a theorist's 
concept of a poem but only in a cerebral fashion, never emotionally.  I 
think I've invented the kind of poetry it is, cryptographic poetry 
(which, by my definition, is poetry that makes significant poetic use of 
cryptography, and is not mere a poem in code).  I've only produced eight 
or nine such poems in the fifteen or more years since my first and was 
surprised when this one occurred to me, because I didn't think I could 
come up with another.  In short, whereas I believe mathematical has 
promise for poets, I don't think cryptographic poetry does.  It seems a 
dead end to me.  I would add that shortness needn't equal 
valuelessness.  I strongly believe one or two of my cryptographic poems 
is as good as any of my poems (and I'm not going to pretend I'm not 
certain some of my poems are good).  Perhaps the best one is at Anny's 
(and is very similar to this one).

--Bob





From anny.ballardini at gmail.com  Wed Dec 16 15:56:42 2009
From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2009 21:56:42 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Mainstreamery
In-Reply-To: <f160a1210912160805s5cd0efa8m8acd0d99b8b1ac35@mail.gmail.com>
References: <12af9.7398f0f2.38580f69@aol.com>
	<8CC4B52BC47F807-528C-B9FB@webmail-d015.sysops.aol.com>
	<4B283D61.7090202@nut-n-but.net>
	<731bb17a0912160420t4b2daefcxcc8611775b0d27e4@mail.gmail.com>
	<4B28FDC5.7010408@nut-n-but.net>
	<f160a1210912160805s5cd0efa8m8acd0d99b8b1ac35@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4b65c2d70912161256w5a3e92e7r189b1c8f0e2a6856@mail.gmail.com>

The river and the floating is Saint Augustine, and how can someone
understand your 4 Seasons? Bob?

On Wed, Dec 16, 2009 at 5:05 PM, Halvard Johnson <halvard at gmail.com> wrote:

> As to that image: it didn't strike you hard enough,
> it seems.
>
> Hal
>
> "We don't serve fine wine in half-pints, buddy."
>                   --Robert Ashley
>
> Halvard Johnson
> ================
> halvard at gmail.com
> http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home
> http://entropyandme.blogspot.com
> http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com
> http://www.hamiltonstone.org
>
>
> On Wed, Dec 16, 2009 at 9:33 AM, Bob Grumman <bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net>wrote:
>
>> An image struck me: a river with most of the people who post here floating
>> along with the current in the middle of the river, and me, running along a
>> bank of the river getting filthy and every once in a while jumping into the
>> river slightly ahead of the people in the middle of it, and splashing
>> furiously, sending dirty water every which way.  The ones in the middle of
>> the river grimace but float on, except that every once in a while one of
>> them gets upset enough to splash back at me.
>>
>> Announcement: I have a new poem at my blog, poeticks.com.  I wouldn't
>>  expect many here to catch on to it, not because they're dense but because
>> the poem is too different from other poems for anyone easily to grasp.  It
>> has nothing to do with mathematics, by the way--but a lot to do with
>> numbers. It has two (compatible) basic meanings, one inspired by Stevens,
>> the other by Robert Lax.
>>
>> --Bob G.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> New-Poetry mailing list
>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
>


-- 
Anny Ballardini
http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078
http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html
I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing
star!
Friedrich Nietzsche

? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique
vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ?
Giovenale
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From anny.ballardini at gmail.com  Wed Dec 16 16:00:46 2009
From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2009 22:00:46 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: luxuriating in numbers
In-Reply-To: <4B294928.4010903@nut-n-but.net>
References: <200912161700.nBGH05DO005889@wiz.cath.vt.edu>
	<D29569EE-1799-4F97-A71C-359CC9F7B3BF@verizon.net>
	<4B294928.4010903@nut-n-but.net>
Message-ID: <4b65c2d70912161300u432c79e1ma2ea9ba5433d8daa@mail.gmail.com>

You mean this one?
http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=2593

On the Autumn Anthology:
http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=Content&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=318

Apollinaire's lovely invention.

On Wed, Dec 16, 2009 at 9:55 PM, Bob Grumman <bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net>wrote:

> Barry Spacks wrote:
>
>>
>> On Dec 16, 2009, at 9:00 AM, Bob wrote (with great forbearance)
>>
>>  Mine is nothing but words, too, Barry.
>>>
>>>    via the Enigma Machine? (after all, it won the Great War).
>>
>>   honestly baffled by much that transpires,
>>
> Thanks for saying so, Barry.  I'll give further clues tomorrow at my blog
> and a full solution to the thing (which is a puzzle as well as a poem, in my
> view) the next day.  It's VERY simple, but the kind of thing I believe
> almost no one would guess because so weird.  The few who might guess, I
> suspect, would almost certainly not appreciate the solution as a poem.  It
> may only be a gadget, something that fulfills a theorist's concept of a poem
> but only in a cerebral fashion, never emotionally.  I think I've invented
> the kind of poetry it is, cryptographic poetry (which, by my definition, is
> poetry that makes significant poetic use of cryptography, and is not mere a
> poem in code).  I've only produced eight or nine such poems in the fifteen
> or more years since my first and was surprised when this one occurred to me,
> because I didn't think I could come up with another.  In short, whereas I
> believe mathematical has promise for poets, I don't think cryptographic
> poetry does.  It seems a dead end to me.  I would add that shortness needn't
> equal valuelessness.  I strongly believe one or two of my cryptographic
> poems is as good as any of my poems (and I'm not going to pretend I'm not
> certain some of my poems are good).  Perhaps the best one is at Anny's (and
> is very similar to this one).
>
> --Bob
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>



-- 
Anny Ballardini
http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078
http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html
I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing
star!
Friedrich Nietzsche

? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique
vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ?
Giovenale
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From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net  Wed Dec 16 16:35:58 2009
From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman)
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2009 16:35:58 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Mainstreamery
In-Reply-To: <4b65c2d70912161256w5a3e92e7r189b1c8f0e2a6856@mail.gmail.com>
References: <12af9.7398f0f2.38580f69@aol.com><8CC4B52BC47F807-528C-B9FB@webmail-d015.sysops.aol.com><4B283D61.7090202@nut-n-but.n
	et><731bb17a0912160420t4b2daefcxcc8611775b0d27e4@mail.gmail.com><4B28FDC5.7010408@nut-n-but.net><f160a1210912160805s5cd0efa8m8a
	cd0d99b8b1ac35@mail.gmail.com>
	<4b65c2d70912161256w5a3e92e7r189b1c8f0e2a6856@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4B2952BE.1060806@nut-n-but.net>

Anny Ballardini wrote:
> The river and the floating is Saint Augustine,
and I'm St. Augustine, right, Anny?
> and how can someone understand your 4 Seasons? Bob?
Read all my blog entries.  Now that I have a new blog site that allows 
tags, it will become easier when I've had time to tag all my entries.  
I've explained somewhere how to deal with cryptographic poetry, but will 
soon do so again.  I want people to try to figure it out without help 
first. 

My book, /Of Manywhere-at-Once/, written before I made my first 
cryptographic poem, has some good clues, too, in my section on Wallace 
Stevens (which says nothing new about him, but is there to reveal things 
about me and my poetics).  Hint: my poem portrays one of the most 
important beliefs about poetics that Stevens used to hang his poems on.  
I think even Vendler knows about it, but I'm not sure.

--Bob

>
> On Wed, Dec 16, 2009 at 5:05 PM, Halvard Johnson <halvard at gmail.com 
> <mailto:halvard at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>     As to that image: it didn't strike you hard enough,
>     it seems.
>
>     Hal
>
>     "We don't serve fine wine in half-pints, buddy."
>                       --Robert Ashley
>
>     Halvard Johnson
>     ================
>     halvard at gmail.com <mailto:halvard at gmail.com>
>     http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home
>     http://entropyandme.blogspot.com
>     http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com
>     http://www.hamiltonstone.org
>
>
>     On Wed, Dec 16, 2009 at 9:33 AM, Bob Grumman
>     <bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net <mailto:bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net>> wrote:
>
>         An image struck me: a river with most of the people who post
>         here floating along with the current in the middle of the
>         river, and me, running along a bank of the river getting
>         filthy and every once in a while jumping into the river
>         slightly ahead of the people in the middle of it, and
>         splashing furiously, sending dirty water every which way.  The
>         ones in the middle of the river grimace but float on, except
>         that every once in a while one of them gets upset enough to
>         splash back at me.
>
>         Announcement: I have a new poem at my blog, poeticks.com
>         <http://poeticks.com>.  I wouldn't  expect many here to catch
>         on to it, not because they're dense but because the poem is
>         too different from other poems for anyone easily to grasp.  It
>         has nothing to do with mathematics, by the way--but a lot to
>         do with numbers. It has two (compatible) basic meanings, one
>         inspired by Stevens, the other by Robert Lax.
>
>         --Bob G.
>
>
>
>
>         _______________________________________________
>         New-Poetry mailing list
>         New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu <mailto:New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
>         http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
>
>
>     _______________________________________________
>     New-Poetry mailing list
>     New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu <mailto:New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
>     http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
>
>
>
> -- 
> Anny Ballardini
> http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
> http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
> http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078
> http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html
> I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a 
> dancing star!
> Friedrich Nietzsche
>
> ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique
> vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ?
> Giovenale
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>   

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From chris at chrislott.org  Wed Dec 16 17:44:57 2009
From: chris at chrislott.org (Chris Lott)
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2009 13:44:57 -0900
Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: luxuriating in numbers
In-Reply-To: <4B294928.4010903@nut-n-but.net>
References: <200912161700.nBGH05DO005889@wiz.cath.vt.edu>
	<D29569EE-1799-4F97-A71C-359CC9F7B3BF@verizon.net>
	<4B294928.4010903@nut-n-but.net>
Message-ID: <b06d3f670912161444t3f6c3dcduc0bf265ee170ba55@mail.gmail.com>

Deciphering the line (repeated 3x unless I am mistaken) was easy. I'm
not getting the connection between the line and the math/crypto...

c

On Wed, Dec 16, 2009 at 11:55 AM, Bob Grumman <bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net> wrote:
> Barry Spacks wrote:
>>
>> On Dec 16, 2009, at 9:00 AM, Bob wrote (with great forbearance)
>>
>>> Mine is nothing but words, too, Barry.
>>>
>> ? via the Enigma Machine? (after all, it won the Great War).
>>
>> ? honestly baffled by much that transpires,
>
> Thanks for saying so, Barry. ?I'll give further clues tomorrow at my blog
> and a full solution to the thing (which is a puzzle as well as a poem, in my
> view) the next day. ?It's VERY simple, but the kind of thing I believe
> almost no one would guess because so weird. ?The few who might guess, I
> suspect, would almost certainly not appreciate the solution as a poem. ?It
> may only be a gadget, something that fulfills a theorist's concept of a poem
> but only in a cerebral fashion, never emotionally. ?I think I've invented
> the kind of poetry it is, cryptographic poetry (which, by my definition, is
> poetry that makes significant poetic use of cryptography, and is not mere a
> poem in code). ?I've only produced eight or nine such poems in the fifteen
> or more years since my first and was surprised when this one occurred to me,
> because I didn't think I could come up with another. ?In short, whereas I
> believe mathematical has promise for poets, I don't think cryptographic
> poetry does. ?It seems a dead end to me. ?I would add that shortness needn't
> equal valuelessness. ?I strongly believe one or two of my cryptographic
> poems is as good as any of my poems (and I'm not going to pretend I'm not
> certain some of my poems are good). ?Perhaps the best one is at Anny's (and
> is very similar to this one).
>
> --Bob
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>



From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net  Wed Dec 16 18:15:35 2009
From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman)
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2009 18:15:35 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: luxuriating in numbers
In-Reply-To: <4b65c2d70912161300u432c79e1ma2ea9ba5433d8daa@mail.gmail.com>
References: <200912161700.nBGH05DO005889@wiz.cath.vt.edu><D29569EE-1799-4F97-A71C-359CC9F7B3BF@verizon.net><4B294928.4010903@nut-
	n-but.net>
	<4b65c2d70912161300u432c79e1ma2ea9ba5433d8daa@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4B296A17.0@nut-n-but.net>

Anny Ballardini wrote:
> You mean this one?
> http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=2593 
> <http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=2593>
No.  It is called "Cryptographiku for Wallace Stevens."  I was sure I 
had it in the section you have of my stuff, but it ain't there.  It had 
to do with the four seasons, so would have been in the collection you 
were going to have (I thought) of poems for all four of the seasons to 
go with the ones for individual seasons.

Ah, the deterioration of the memory . . .

--Bob

>
> On the Autumn Anthology:
> http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=Content&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=318 
> <http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=Content&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=318>
>
> Apollinaire's lovely invention.
>
> On Wed, Dec 16, 2009 at 9:55 PM, Bob Grumman <bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net 
> <mailto:bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net>> wrote:
>
>     Barry Spacks wrote:
>
>
>         On Dec 16, 2009, at 9:00 AM, Bob wrote (with great forbearance)
>
>             Mine is nothing but words, too, Barry.
>
>           via the Enigma Machine? (after all, it won the Great War).
>
>           honestly baffled by much that transpires,
>
>     Thanks for saying so, Barry.  I'll give further clues tomorrow at
>     my blog and a full solution to the thing (which is a puzzle as
>     well as a poem, in my view) the next day.  It's VERY simple, but
>     the kind of thing I believe almost no one would guess because so
>     weird.  The few who might guess, I suspect, would almost certainly
>     not appreciate the solution as a poem.  It may only be a gadget,
>     something that fulfills a theorist's concept of a poem but only in
>     a cerebral fashion, never emotionally.  I think I've invented the
>     kind of poetry it is, cryptographic poetry (which, by my
>     definition, is poetry that makes significant poetic use of
>     cryptography, and is not mere a poem in code).  I've only produced
>     eight or nine such poems in the fifteen or more years since my
>     first and was surprised when this one occurred to me, because I
>     didn't think I could come up with another.  In short, whereas I
>     believe mathematical has promise for poets, I don't think
>     cryptographic poetry does.  It seems a dead end to me.  I would
>     add that shortness needn't equal valuelessness.  I strongly
>     believe one or two of my cryptographic poems is as good as any of
>     my poems (and I'm not going to pretend I'm not certain some of my
>     poems are good).  Perhaps the best one is at Anny's (and is very
>     similar to this one).
>
>     --Bob
>
>
>
>     _______________________________________________
>     New-Poetry mailing list
>     New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu <mailto:New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
>     http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
>
>
>
> -- 
> Anny Ballardini
> http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
> http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
> http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078
> http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html
> I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a 
> dancing star!
> Friedrich Nietzsche
>
> ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique
> vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ?
> Giovenale
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>   

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From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net  Wed Dec 16 18:21:55 2009
From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman)
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2009 18:21:55 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: luxuriating in numbers
In-Reply-To: <b06d3f670912161444t3f6c3dcduc0bf265ee170ba55@mail.gmail.com>
References: <200912161700.nBGH05DO005889@wiz.cath.vt.edu><D29569EE-1799-4F97-A71C-359CC9F7B3BF@verizon.net><4B294928.4010903@nut-
	n-but.net>
	<b06d3f670912161444t3f6c3dcduc0bf265ee170ba55@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4B296B93.1080801@nut-n-but.net>

Chris Lott wrote:
> Deciphering the line (repeated 3x unless I am mistaken) was easy. I'm
> not getting the connection between the line and the math/crypto...
>
> c
>   
Good, but you really only deciphered one of the lines, right?  Which is 
all you have to do, but the first and third would not be simple, 
especially without the second, which IS intentionally as simple as I 
could make it.  The connection comes from seeing how the numbers used to 
code the second line relate to the numbers used in the first line, and 
how the numbers in the first line relate to those in the thrid line 
(which is pretty obvious).  A person who fools around with math will 
soon see what kind of numbers are used to code the first line, but 
probably not someone who's not done any kind of mathematics other than 
addition and subtraction since school.  I suspect I myself would have 
trouble with it at first, but would keep at it until I saw what was 
going on.  I do fool around with math occasionally, but not like a real 
math hobbyist would.

--Bob



From chris at chrislott.org  Wed Dec 16 18:31:13 2009
From: chris at chrislott.org (Chris Lott)
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2009 14:31:13 -0900
Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: luxuriating in numbers
In-Reply-To: <4B296B93.1080801@nut-n-but.net>
References: <200912161700.nBGH05DO005889@wiz.cath.vt.edu>
	<D29569EE-1799-4F97-A71C-359CC9F7B3BF@verizon.net>
	<b06d3f670912161444t3f6c3dcduc0bf265ee170ba55@mail.gmail.com>
	<4B296B93.1080801@nut-n-but.net>
Message-ID: <b06d3f670912161531j636944a1s9fe5c0159c4ed0b2@mail.gmail.com>

The second line was the easy one. I see the mathematical
transformation between lines 3 & 4, but not yet between 2 and 3 or
backward to 1.

c

On Wed, Dec 16, 2009 at 2:21 PM, Bob Grumman <bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net> wrote:
> Chris Lott wrote:
>>
>> Deciphering the line (repeated 3x unless I am mistaken) was easy. I'm
>> not getting the connection between the line and the math/crypto...
>>
>> c
>>
>
> Good, but you really only deciphered one of the lines, right? ?Which is all
> you have to do, but the first and third would not be simple, especially
> without the second, which IS intentionally as simple as I could make it.
> ?The connection comes from seeing how the numbers used to code the second
> line relate to the numbers used in the first line, and how the numbers in
> the first line relate to those in the thrid line (which is pretty obvious).
> ?A person who fools around with math will soon see what kind of numbers are
> used to code the first line, but probably not someone who's not done any
> kind of mathematics other than addition and subtraction since school. ?I
> suspect I myself would have trouble with it at first, but would keep at it
> until I saw what was going on. ?I do fool around with math occasionally, but
> not like a real math hobbyist would.
>
> --Bob
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>



From chris at chrislott.org  Wed Dec 16 18:38:49 2009
From: chris at chrislott.org (Chris Lott)
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2009 14:38:49 -0900
Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: luxuriating in numbers
In-Reply-To: <4B296B93.1080801@nut-n-but.net>
References: <200912161700.nBGH05DO005889@wiz.cath.vt.edu>
	<D29569EE-1799-4F97-A71C-359CC9F7B3BF@verizon.net>
	<b06d3f670912161444t3f6c3dcduc0bf265ee170ba55@mail.gmail.com>
	<4B296B93.1080801@nut-n-but.net>
Message-ID: <b06d3f670912161538t741c3a5dl88cca75df3801bb5@mail.gmail.com>

Bob:

Is the third line missing a number at the end?

c


From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net  Wed Dec 16 19:16:12 2009
From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman)
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2009 19:16:12 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: luxuriating in numbers
In-Reply-To: <b06d3f670912161531j636944a1s9fe5c0159c4ed0b2@mail.gmail.com>
References: <200912161700.nBGH05DO005889@wiz.cath.vt.edu><D29569EE-1799-4F97-A71C-359CC9F7B3BF@verizon.net><b06d3f670912161444t3f
	6c3dcduc0bf265ee170ba55@mail.gmail.com><4B296B93.1080801@nut-n-but.net>
	<b06d3f670912161531j636944a1s9fe5c0159c4ed0b2@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4B29784C.30106@nut-n-but.net>

Chris Lott wrote:
> The second line was the easy one. I see the mathematical
> transformation between lines 3 & 4, but not yet between 2 and 3 or
> backward to 1.
>
> c
I made a mistake in my previous post to you, Chris (because the poem 
originally had only three lines--for just three seasons).  Lines one and 
three are difficult.  To solve line one, you need to figure out . . . 
this is a big hint  . . what kind of numbers  the numbers in  the code 
are.   To solve  line three, do the same thing. 

--Bob



From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net  Wed Dec 16 19:17:19 2009
From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman)
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2009 19:17:19 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: luxuriating in numbers
In-Reply-To: <b06d3f670912161538t741c3a5dl88cca75df3801bb5@mail.gmail.com>
References: <200912161700.nBGH05DO005889@wiz.cath.vt.edu><D29569EE-1799-4F97-A71C-359CC9F7B3BF@verizon.net><b06d3f670912161444t3f
	6c3dcduc0bf265ee170ba55@mail.gmail.com><4B296B93.1080801@nut-n-but.net>
	<b06d3f670912161538t741c3a5dl88cca75df3801bb5@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4B29788F.2040407@nut-n-but.net>

Chris Lott wrote:
> Bob:
>
> Is the third line missing a number at the end?
>
> c
Considering how careless I am, probably.  I'll check.

--Bob



From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net  Wed Dec 16 19:25:57 2009
From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman)
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2009 19:25:57 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: luxuriating in numbers
In-Reply-To: <b06d3f670912161538t741c3a5dl88cca75df3801bb5@mail.gmail.com>
References: <200912161700.nBGH05DO005889@wiz.cath.vt.edu><D29569EE-1799-4F97-A71C-359CC9F7B3BF@verizon.net><b06d3f670912161444t3f
	6c3dcduc0bf265ee170ba55@mail.gmail.com><4B296B93.1080801@nut-n-but.net>
	<b06d3f670912161538t741c3a5dl88cca75df3801bb5@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4B297A95.1090504@nut-n-but.net>

Chris Lott wrote:
> Bob:
>
> Is the third line missing a number at the end?
>
> c
I just checked--yes.  Except it is missing the middle number, as is line 
four.  Thanks much for the catch, Chris--I've fixed the mistake.  
Knowing me, I probably have one or two numbers wrong, too.

--Bob



From jforjames at aol.com  Wed Dec 16 19:40:01 2009
From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2009 19:40:01 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Studying Whitman at large
Message-ID: <8CC4CC899E7EB85-155C-E3DF@webmail-d067.sysops.aol.com>


http://news.rutgers.edu/medrel/news-releases/2009/12/on-the-streets-of-wh-20091216

On the Streets of Whitman: Rutgers Students Look for the Poet in Camden
December 16, 2009
There?s reading Whitman. Then there?s breathing Whitman.

An effort underway at Rutgers University?Camden brings the Good Grey Poet off the page and into the world, as graduate English students experience for themselves where Walt Whitman once lived and what locales inspired him to write throughout his career.

During the fall semester, students in two Rutgers?Camden courses not only studied what Whitman penned during his Camden years, 1873-1892, but they?ve also set foot in the house where he finished his days and on the grounds where his body is buried. Some even ventured to Timber Creek, where the famed poet ?sun-bathed? in southern New Jersey. 

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From Rsgwynn1 at cs.com  Wed Dec 16 19:46:29 2009
From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com (Rsgwynn1 at cs.com)
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2009 19:46:29 EST
Subject: [New-Poetry] Studying Whitman at large
Message-ID: <cf8.6b6f0fff.385ad965@cs.com>

In a message dated 12/16/2009 6:40:32 PM Central Standard Time, 
jforjames at aol.com writes: 
> Some even ventured to Timber Creek, where the famed poet ?sun-bathed? in 
> southern New Jersey. 

A truly frightening thought.
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From chris at chrislott.org  Wed Dec 16 19:56:56 2009
From: chris at chrislott.org (Chris Lott)
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2009 15:56:56 -0900
Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: luxuriating in numbers
In-Reply-To: <4B297A95.1090504@nut-n-but.net>
References: <200912161700.nBGH05DO005889@wiz.cath.vt.edu>
	<D29569EE-1799-4F97-A71C-359CC9F7B3BF@verizon.net>
	<4B296B93.1080801@nut-n-but.net>
	<b06d3f670912161538t741c3a5dl88cca75df3801bb5@mail.gmail.com>
	<4B297A95.1090504@nut-n-but.net>
Message-ID: <b06d3f670912161656t3e825247q61e076653000f9f8@mail.gmail.com>

Line 2 was the easiest. Line 1 I also got-- the number type gave it
away. I can see relationship between 3 & 4 but haven't figured 3 out
yet.

c

On Wed, Dec 16, 2009 at 3:25 PM, Bob Grumman <bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net> wrote:
> Chris Lott wrote:
>>
>> Bob:
>>
>> Is the third line missing a number at the end?
>>
>> c
>
> I just checked--yes. ?Except it is missing the middle number, as is line
> four. ?Thanks much for the catch, Chris--I've fixed the mistake. ?Knowing
> me, I probably have one or two numbers wrong, too.
>
> --Bob
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>



From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net  Thu Dec 17 06:00:46 2009
From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman)
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 2009 06:00:46 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: luxuriating in numbers
In-Reply-To: <b06d3f670912161656t3e825247q61e076653000f9f8@mail.gmail.com>
References: <200912161700.nBGH05DO005889@wiz.cath.vt.edu><D29569EE-1799-4F97-A71C-359CC9F7B3BF@verizon.net><4B296B93.1080801@nut-
	n-but.net><b06d3f670912161538t741c3a5dl88cca75df3801bb5@mail.gmail.com><4B297A95.1090504@nut-n-but.net>
	<b06d3f670912161656t3e825247q61e076653000f9f8@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4B2A0F5E.1010704@nut-n-but.net>

Hey, thanks for hanging in, Chris!  You encourage me to think that I may 
have accomplished one aim of mine, which was to make the thing at least 
a possibly fun ( & *Challenging*!) puzzle.  You're very close to solving 
the codes; I'll give you the last hint you should need tomorrow morning, 
if you still need it.  You'll kick yourself when you read it.

--Bob




From jforjames at aol.com  Thu Dec 17 13:01:29 2009
From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 2009 13:01:29 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] The Poet's Cookbook
Message-ID: <8CC4D5A1810BAC8-306C-CA3D@webmail-d086.sysops.aol.com>


http://blog.beliefnet.com/beyondblue/2009/12/the-poets-cookbook.html
Hot off the presses is Grace's newest book, edited with Sabine Pascarelli. An interesting concept, it is called "The Poet's Cookbook: Recipes from Tuscany." Grace and Sabine feature 28 poets and even more scrumptious recipes.

What does poetry and cooking have to do with each other? Grace writes this in her introduction: 

Cooking speaks of community, in Italy and America; and the breaking of bread in any language, in every country, speaks of a commonality with friends. In this spirit, although the recipes are our own, we asked that the poems included be from our friends, other poets. 
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From halvard at gmail.com  Thu Dec 17 13:06:15 2009
From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson)
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 2009 12:06:15 -0600
Subject: [New-Poetry] The Poet's Cookbook
In-Reply-To: <8CC4D5A1810BAC8-306C-CA3D@webmail-d086.sysops.aol.com>
References: <8CC4D5A1810BAC8-306C-CA3D@webmail-d086.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <f160a1210912171006v4b894ee1h5a7ceab39f40a0c4@mail.gmail.com>

Who'd want to cook poets?

Hal

"We don't serve fine wine in half-pints, buddy."
                  --Robert Ashley

Halvard Johnson
================
halvard at gmail.com
http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home
http://entropyandme.blogspot.com
http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com
http://www.hamiltonstone.org


On Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 12:01 PM, <jforjames at aol.com> wrote:

> http://blog.beliefnet.com/beyondblue/2009/12/the-poets-cookbook.html
> Hot off the presses is Grace's newest book, edited with Sabine Pascarelli.
> An interesting concept, it is called "The Poet's Cookbook: Recipes from
> Tuscany." Grace and Sabine feature 28 poets and even more scrumptious
> recipes.
>
> What does poetry and cooking have to do with each other? Grace writes this
> in her introduction:
>
> Cooking speaks of community, in Italy and America; and the breaking of
> bread in any language, in every country, speaks of a commonality with
> friends. In this spirit, although the recipes are our own, we asked that the
> poems included be from our friends, other poets.
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
>
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From skip at louisiana.edu  Thu Dec 17 13:19:59 2009
From: skip at louisiana.edu (Skip Fox)
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 2009 12:19:59 -0600
Subject: [New-Poetry] The Poet's Cookbook
In-Reply-To: <f160a1210912171006v4b894ee1h5a7ceab39f40a0c4@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <C5D4BD84166448039B475D509CCAF1BC@win.louisiana.edu>

They are, perhaps, better raw?

 

-----Original Message-----
From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu
[mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Halvard Johnson
Sent: Thursday, December 17, 2009 12:06 PM
To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &amp,Views
Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] The Poet's Cookbook

 

Who'd want to cook poets?

 

Hal


"We don't serve fine wine in half-pints, buddy."
                  --Robert Ashley

Halvard Johnson
================
halvard at gmail.com
http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home
http://entropyandme.blogspot.com
http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com
http://www.hamiltonstone.org



On Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 12:01 PM, <jforjames at aol.com> wrote:

http://blog.beliefnet.com/beyondblue/2009/12/the-poets-cookbook.html

Hot off the presses is Grace's newest book, edited with Sabine Pascarelli.
An interesting concept, it is called "The Poet's Cookbook: Recipes from
Tuscany." Grace and Sabine feature 28 poets and even more scrumptious
recipes.

 

What does poetry and cooking have to do with each other? Grace writes this
in her introduction: 

 

Cooking speaks of community, in Italy and America; and the breaking of bread
in any language, in every country, speaks of a commonality with friends. In
this spirit, although the recipes are our own, we asked that the poems
included be from our friends, other poets. 


_______________________________________________
New-Poetry mailing list
New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry

 

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From halvard at gmail.com  Thu Dec 17 13:27:55 2009
From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson)
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 2009 12:27:55 -0600
Subject: [New-Poetry] The Poet's Cookbook
In-Reply-To: <C5D4BD84166448039B475D509CCAF1BC@win.louisiana.edu>
References: <f160a1210912171006v4b894ee1h5a7ceab39f40a0c4@mail.gmail.com>
	<C5D4BD84166448039B475D509CCAF1BC@win.louisiana.edu>
Message-ID: <f160a1210912171027j10e6a503pf667771877d31699@mail.gmail.com>

Well, imho, yes . . . the rawer the better.

Hal

"We don't serve fine wine in half-pints, buddy."
                  --Robert Ashley

Halvard Johnson
================
halvard at gmail.com
http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home
http://entropyandme.blogspot.com
http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com
http://www.hamiltonstone.org


On Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 12:19 PM, Skip Fox <skip at louisiana.edu> wrote:

>  They are, perhaps, better *raw*?
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> *From:* new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto:
> new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] *On Behalf Of *Halvard Johnson
> *Sent:* Thursday, December 17, 2009 12:06 PM
> *To:* NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &amp,Views
> *Subject:* Re: [New-Poetry] The Poet's Cookbook
>
>
>
> Who'd want to cook poets?
>
>
>
> Hal
>
>
> "We don't serve fine wine in half-pints, buddy."
>                   --Robert Ashley
>
> Halvard Johnson
> ================
> halvard at gmail.com
> http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home
> http://entropyandme.blogspot.com
> http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com
> http://www.hamiltonstone.org
>
>  On Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 12:01 PM, <jforjames at aol.com> wrote:
>
> http://blog.beliefnet.com/beyondblue/2009/12/the-poets-cookbook.html
>
> Hot off the presses is Grace's newest book, edited with Sabine Pascarelli.
> An interesting concept, it is called "The Poet's Cookbook: Recipes from
> Tuscany." Grace and Sabine feature 28 poets and even more scrumptious
> recipes.
>
>
>
> What does poetry and cooking have to do with each other? Grace writes this
> in her introduction:
>
>
>
> Cooking speaks of community, in Italy and America; and the breaking of
> bread in any language, in every country, speaks of a commonality with
> friends. In this spirit, although the recipes are our own, we asked that the
> poems included be from our friends, other poets.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
>
>
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From junction at earthlink.net  Thu Dec 17 14:02:15 2009
From: junction at earthlink.net (Mark Weiss)
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 2009 14:02:15 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] The Poet's Cookbook
In-Reply-To: <f160a1210912171027j10e6a503pf667771877d31699@mail.gmail.co
 m>
References: <f160a1210912171006v4b894ee1h5a7ceab39f40a0c4@mail.gmail.com>
	<C5D4BD84166448039B475D509CCAF1BC@win.louisiana.edu>
	<f160a1210912171027j10e6a503pf667771877d31699@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <E1NLLcJ-00039B-JW@elasmtp-curtail.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

Must be cleaned very thoroughly. Probably best to parboil and toss 
the first water.


At 01:27 PM 12/17/2009, you wrote:
>Well, imho, yes . . . the rawer the better.
>
>Hal
>
>"We don't serve fine wine in half-pints, buddy."
>                   --Robert Ashley
>
>Halvard Johnson
>================
><mailto:halvard at gmail.com>halvard at gmail.com
>http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home
><http://entropyandme.blogspot.com>http://entropyandme.blogspot.com
>http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com
><http://www.hamiltonstone.org>http://www.hamiltonstone.org
>
>
>On Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 12:19 PM, Skip Fox 
><<mailto:skip at louisiana.edu>skip at louisiana.edu> wrote:
>
>They are, perhaps, better raw?
>
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: 
><mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu>new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu 
>[mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Halvard Johnson
>Sent: Thursday, December 17, 2009 12:06 PM
>To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &amp,Views
>Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] The Poet's Cookbook
>
>
>
>Who'd want to cook poets?
>
>
>
>Hal
>
>
>"We don't serve fine wine in half-pints, buddy."
>                   --Robert Ashley
>
>Halvard Johnson
>================
><mailto:halvard at gmail.com>halvard at gmail.com
>http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home
><http://entropyandme.blogspot.com>http://entropyandme.blogspot.com
>http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com
><http://www.hamiltonstone.org>http://www.hamiltonstone.org
>
>On Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 12:01 PM, 
><<mailto:jforjames at aol.com>jforjames at aol.com> wrote:
>
><http://blog.beliefnet.com/beyondblue/2009/12/the-poets-cookbook.html>http://blog.beliefnet.com/beyondblue/2009/12/the-poets-cookbook.html
>
>Hot off the presses is Grace's newest book, edited with Sabine 
>Pascarelli. An interesting concept, it is called "The Poet's 
>Cookbook: Recipes from Tuscany." Grace and Sabine feature 28 poets 
>and even more scrumptious recipes.
>
>
>
>What does poetry and cooking have to do with each other? Grace 
>writes this in her introduction:
>
>
>
>Cooking speaks of community, in Italy and America; and the breaking 
>of bread in any language, in every country, speaks of a commonality 
>with friends. In this spirit, although the recipes are our own, we 
>asked that the poems included be from our friends, other poets.
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>New-Poetry mailing list
><mailto:New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>New-Poetry mailing list
>New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry

Announcing The Whole Island: Six Decades of Cuban Poetry (University 
of California Press).
Forthcoming in November 2009.
http://go.ucpress.edu/WholeIsland





From halvard at gmail.com  Thu Dec 17 14:09:24 2009
From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson)
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 2009 13:09:24 -0600
Subject: [New-Poetry] The Poet's Cookbook
In-Reply-To: <E1NLLcJ-00039B-JW@elasmtp-curtail.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
References: <f160a1210912171006v4b894ee1h5a7ceab39f40a0c4@mail.gmail.com>
	<C5D4BD84166448039B475D509CCAF1BC@win.louisiana.edu>
	<f160a1210912171027j10e6a503pf667771877d31699@mail.gmail.com>
	<E1NLLcJ-00039B-JW@elasmtp-curtail.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <f160a1210912171109w69554e7bs2c948e0d89e339ba@mail.gmail.com>

Oops, thought at first you said "toss the first waiter."

Hal

"We don't serve fine wine in half-pints, buddy."
                  --Robert Ashley

Halvard Johnson
================
halvard at gmail.com
http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home
http://entropyandme.blogspot.com
http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com
http://www.hamiltonstone.org


On Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 1:02 PM, Mark Weiss <junction at earthlink.net> wrote:

> Must be cleaned very thoroughly. Probably best to parboil and toss the
> first water.
>
>
>
> At 01:27 PM 12/17/2009, you wrote:
>
>> Well, imho, yes . . . the rawer the better.
>>
>> Hal
>>
>> "We don't serve fine wine in half-pints, buddy."
>>                  --Robert Ashley
>>
>> Halvard Johnson
>> ================
>> <mailto:halvard at gmail.com>halvard at gmail.com
>>
>> http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home
>> <http://entropyandme.blogspot.com>http://entropyandme.blogspot.com
>> http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com
>> <http://www.hamiltonstone.org>http://www.hamiltonstone.org
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 12:19 PM, Skip Fox <<mailto:skip at louisiana.edu>
>> skip at louisiana.edu> wrote:
>>
>> They are, perhaps, better raw?
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: <mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
>> new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto:
>> new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Halvard Johnson
>> Sent: Thursday, December 17, 2009 12:06 PM
>> To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &amp,Views
>> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] The Poet's Cookbook
>>
>>
>>
>> Who'd want to cook poets?
>>
>>
>>
>> Hal
>>
>>
>> "We don't serve fine wine in half-pints, buddy."
>>                  --Robert Ashley
>>
>> Halvard Johnson
>> ================
>> <mailto:halvard at gmail.com>halvard at gmail.com
>>
>> http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home
>> <http://entropyandme.blogspot.com>http://entropyandme.blogspot.com
>> http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com
>> <http://www.hamiltonstone.org>http://www.hamiltonstone.org
>>
>> On Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 12:01 PM, <<mailto:jforjames at aol.com>
>> jforjames at aol.com> wrote:
>>
>> <http://blog.beliefnet.com/beyondblue/2009/12/the-poets-cookbook.html>
>> http://blog.beliefnet.com/beyondblue/2009/12/the-poets-cookbook.html
>>
>>
>> Hot off the presses is Grace's newest book, edited with Sabine Pascarelli.
>> An interesting concept, it is called "The Poet's Cookbook: Recipes from
>> Tuscany." Grace and Sabine feature 28 poets and even more scrumptious
>> recipes.
>>
>>
>>
>> What does poetry and cooking have to do with each other? Grace writes this
>> in her introduction:
>>
>>
>>
>> Cooking speaks of community, in Italy and America; and the breaking of
>> bread in any language, in every country, speaks of a commonality with
>> friends. In this spirit, although the recipes are our own, we asked that the
>> poems included be from our friends, other poets.
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> New-Poetry mailing list
>> <mailto:New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>>
>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> New-Poetry mailing list
>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>>
>
> Announcing The Whole Island: Six Decades of Cuban Poetry (University of
> California Press).
> Forthcoming in November 2009.
> http://go.ucpress.edu/WholeIsland
>
>
>
>
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From skip at louisiana.edu  Thu Dec 17 14:13:34 2009
From: skip at louisiana.edu (Skip Fox)
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 2009 13:13:34 -0600
Subject: [New-Poetry] The Poet's Cookbook
In-Reply-To: <E1NLLcJ-00039B-JW@elasmtp-curtail.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <F4F41E3841B042DFB7762D0FA8610F57@win.louisiana.edu>

Or can be blanched with boiling water, shocked in icy cold, al dente over
heaping pasta, then served with steaming, streaming odes.

-----Original Message-----
From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu
[mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Mark Weiss
Sent: Thursday, December 17, 2009 1:02 PM
To: halvard at gmail.com; NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &amp;Views
Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] The Poet's Cookbook

Must be cleaned very thoroughly. Probably best to parboil and toss 
the first water.


At 01:27 PM 12/17/2009, you wrote:
>Well, imho, yes . . . the rawer the better.
>
>Hal
>
>"We don't serve fine wine in half-pints, buddy."
>                   --Robert Ashley
>
>Halvard Johnson
>================
><mailto:halvard at gmail.com>halvard at gmail.com
>http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home
><http://entropyandme.blogspot.com>http://entropyandme.blogspot.com
>http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com
><http://www.hamiltonstone.org>http://www.hamiltonstone.org
>
>
>On Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 12:19 PM, Skip Fox 
><<mailto:skip at louisiana.edu>skip at louisiana.edu> wrote:
>
>They are, perhaps, better raw?
>
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: 
><mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu>new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.e
du 
>[mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Halvard Johnson
>Sent: Thursday, December 17, 2009 12:06 PM
>To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &amp,Views
>Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] The Poet's Cookbook
>
>
>
>Who'd want to cook poets?
>
>
>
>Hal
>
>
>"We don't serve fine wine in half-pints, buddy."
>                   --Robert Ashley
>
>Halvard Johnson
>================
><mailto:halvard at gmail.com>halvard at gmail.com
>http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home
><http://entropyandme.blogspot.com>http://entropyandme.blogspot.com
>http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com
><http://www.hamiltonstone.org>http://www.hamiltonstone.org
>
>On Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 12:01 PM, 
><<mailto:jforjames at aol.com>jforjames at aol.com> wrote:
>
><http://blog.beliefnet.com/beyondblue/2009/12/the-poets-cookbook.html>http:
//blog.beliefnet.com/beyondblue/2009/12/the-poets-cookbook.html
>
>Hot off the presses is Grace's newest book, edited with Sabine 
>Pascarelli. An interesting concept, it is called "The Poet's 
>Cookbook: Recipes from Tuscany." Grace and Sabine feature 28 poets 
>and even more scrumptious recipes.
>
>
>
>What does poetry and cooking have to do with each other? Grace 
>writes this in her introduction:
>
>
>
>Cooking speaks of community, in Italy and America; and the breaking 
>of bread in any language, in every country, speaks of a commonality 
>with friends. In this spirit, although the recipes are our own, we 
>asked that the poems included be from our friends, other poets.
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>New-Poetry mailing list
><mailto:New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>New-Poetry mailing list
>New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry

Announcing The Whole Island: Six Decades of Cuban Poetry (University 
of California Press).
Forthcoming in November 2009.
http://go.ucpress.edu/WholeIsland



_______________________________________________
New-Poetry mailing list
New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry




From junction at earthlink.net  Thu Dec 17 14:34:45 2009
From: junction at earthlink.net (Mark Weiss)
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 2009 14:34:45 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] The Poet's Cookbook
In-Reply-To: <F4F41E3841B042DFB7762D0FA8610F57@win.louisiana.edu>
References: <E1NLLcJ-00039B-JW@elasmtp-curtail.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
	<F4F41E3841B042DFB7762D0FA8610F57@win.louisiana.edu>
Message-ID: <E1NLM7k-00048T-UB@elasmtp-curtail.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

Probably needs to be well-done, except for Ben Jonson, who of course 
should be rare.

This is making me hungry. Time for my cow foot soup. Substitute poet 
foot would probably work.

At 02:13 PM 12/17/2009, you wrote:
>Or can be blanched with boiling water, shocked in icy cold, al dente over
>heaping pasta, then served with steaming, streaming odes.
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>[mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Mark Weiss
>Sent: Thursday, December 17, 2009 1:02 PM
>To: halvard at gmail.com; NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &amp;Views
>Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] The Poet's Cookbook
>
>Must be cleaned very thoroughly. Probably best to parboil and toss
>the first water.
>
>
>At 01:27 PM 12/17/2009, you wrote:
> >Well, imho, yes . . . the rawer the better.
> >
> >Hal
> >
> >"We don't serve fine wine in half-pints, buddy."
> >                   --Robert Ashley
> >
> >Halvard Johnson
> >================
> ><mailto:halvard at gmail.com>halvard at gmail.com
> >http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home
> ><http://entropyandme.blogspot.com>http://entropyandme.blogspot.com
> >http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com
> ><http://www.hamiltonstone.org>http://www.hamiltonstone.org
> >
> >
> >On Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 12:19 PM, Skip Fox
> ><<mailto:skip at louisiana.edu>skip at louisiana.edu> wrote:
> >
> >They are, perhaps, better raw?
> >
> >
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From:
> ><mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu>new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.e
>du
> >[mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Halvard Johnson
> >Sent: Thursday, December 17, 2009 12:06 PM
> >To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &amp,Views
> >Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] The Poet's Cookbook
> >
> >
> >
> >Who'd want to cook poets?
> >
> >
> >
> >Hal
> >
> >
> >"We don't serve fine wine in half-pints, buddy."
> >                   --Robert Ashley
> >
> >Halvard Johnson
> >================
> ><mailto:halvard at gmail.com>halvard at gmail.com
> >http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home
> ><http://entropyandme.blogspot.com>http://entropyandme.blogspot.com
> >http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com
> ><http://www.hamiltonstone.org>http://www.hamiltonstone.org
> >
> >On Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 12:01 PM,
> ><<mailto:jforjames at aol.com>jforjames at aol.com> wrote:
> >
> ><http://blog.beliefnet.com/beyondblue/2009/12/the-poets-cookbook.html>http:
>//blog.beliefnet.com/beyondblue/2009/12/the-poets-cookbook.html
> >
> >Hot off the presses is Grace's newest book, edited with Sabine
> >Pascarelli. An interesting concept, it is called "The Poet's
> >Cookbook: Recipes from Tuscany." Grace and Sabine feature 28 poets
> >and even more scrumptious recipes.
> >
> >
> >
> >What does poetry and cooking have to do with each other? Grace
> >writes this in her introduction:
> >
> >
> >
> >Cooking speaks of community, in Italy and America; and the breaking
> >of bread in any language, in every country, speaks of a commonality
> >with friends. In this spirit, although the recipes are our own, we
> >asked that the poems included be from our friends, other poets.
> >
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >New-Poetry mailing list
> ><mailto:New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >New-Poetry mailing list
> >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
>Announcing The Whole Island: Six Decades of Cuban Poetry (University
>of California Press).
>Forthcoming in November 2009.
>http://go.ucpress.edu/WholeIsland
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>New-Poetry mailing list
>New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>New-Poetry mailing list
>New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry

Announcing The Whole Island: Six Decades of Cuban Poetry (University 
of California Press).
Forthcoming in November 2009.
http://go.ucpress.edu/WholeIsland





From jforjames at aol.com  Thu Dec 17 15:20:14 2009
From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 2009 15:20:14 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] The Poet's Cookbook
In-Reply-To: <F4F41E3841B042DFB7762D0FA8610F57@win.louisiana.edu>
Message-ID: <8CC4D6D79A317CE-306C-F512@webmail-d086.sysops.aol.com>


These lines entered my mind (obviously not vegetarian)...

The winter evening settles down
With smell of steaks in passageways.
Six o'clock.
The burnt-out ends of smoky days.

--T.S. Eliot, ?Preludes?

Some more food poems here...
http://huggingthecoast.com/2009/04/23/food-poems-good-enough-to-eat-for-national-poetry-month/

Anyone want to contribute their own food poem to the list for an ephemeral anthology 
of food/cooking related poems..
Finnegan
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From gejs1 at rochester.rr.com  Thu Dec 17 15:44:27 2009
From: gejs1 at rochester.rr.com (Gerald Schwartz)
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 2009 15:44:27 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] The Poet's Cookbook
In-Reply-To: <8CC4D6D79A317CE-306C-F512@webmail-d086.sysops.aol.com>
References: <8CC4D6D79A317CE-306C-F512@webmail-d086.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <AB5304FB9BE4446D84F73B1C3D6E9C85@KayPC>

what lost worlds
these dishes call up!
still they are
the Sundayest of
Sunday dishes, suave,
rich, and satisfying
to the soul as
well as the body

--Gerald Schwartz
(busy with Plum Duck Wraps)


  These lines entered my mind (obviously not vegetarian)...

  The winter evening settles down
  With smell of steaks in passageways.
  Six o'clock.
  The burnt-out ends of smoky days.

  --T.S. Eliot, ?Preludes?

  Some more food poems here...
  http://huggingthecoast.com/2009/04/23/food-poems-good-enough-to-eat-for-national-poetry-month/

  Anyone want to contribute their own food poem to the list for an ephemeral anthology 
  of food/cooking related poems..
  Finnegan


------------------------------------------------------------------------------


  _______________________________________________
  New-Poetry mailing list
  New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
  http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
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From junction at earthlink.net  Thu Dec 17 15:54:05 2009
From: junction at earthlink.net (Mark Weiss)
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 2009 15:54:05 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] The Poet's Cookbook
In-Reply-To: <AB5304FB9BE4446D84F73B1C3D6E9C85@KayPC>
References: <8CC4D6D79A317CE-306C-F512@webmail-d086.sysops.aol.com>
	<AB5304FB9BE4446D84F73B1C3D6E9C85@KayPC>
Message-ID: <E1NLNMW-0003nM-BS@elasmtp-spurfowl.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

We gonna do food poems? Rich stuff--don't forget the antacids.

At 03:44 PM 12/17/2009, you wrote:
>???
>what lost worlds
>these dishes call up!
>still they are
>the Sundayest of
>Sunday dishes, suave,
>rich, and satisfying
>to the soul as
>well as the body
>
>--Gerald Schwartz
>(busy with Plum Duck Wraps)
>
>These lines entered my mind (obviously not vegetarian)...
>
>The winter evening settles down
>With smell of steaks in passageways.
>Six o'clock.
>The burnt-out ends of smoky days.
>
>--T.S. Eliot, ???Preludes???
>
>Some more food poems here...
><http://huggingthecoast.com/2009/04/23/food-poems-good-enough-to-eat-for-national-poetry-month/>http://huggingthecoast.com/2009/04/23/food-poems-good-enough-to-eat-for-national-poetry-month/
>
>Anyone want to contribute their own food poem to 
>the list for an ephemeral anthology
>of food/cooking related poems..
>Finnegan
>
>
>----------
>_______________________________________________
>New-Poetry mailing list
>New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
>_______________________________________________
>New-Poetry mailing list
>New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry

Announcing The Whole Island: Six Decades of Cuban 
Poetry (University of California Press).
Forthcoming in November 2009.
http://go.ucpress.edu/WholeIsland






From halvard at gmail.com  Thu Dec 17 19:09:45 2009
From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson)
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 2009 18:09:45 -0600
Subject: [New-Poetry] End of 2009 lists
Message-ID: <f160a1210912171609u7836575bn14c94e4a18c88654@mail.gmail.com>

The only end of 2009 lists I'm planning to read this year are your
lists of Ron Silliman's best links lists. Please limit your list to no
more than four. Thank you.

The deadline is . . . well, let's see . . . Jan. 1, 2010.

Hal

"We don't serve fine wine in half-pints, buddy."
                  --Robert Ashley

Halvard Johnson
================
halvard at gmail.com
http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home
http://entropyandme.blogspot.com
http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com
http://www.hamiltonstone.org
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From anny.ballardini at gmail.com  Fri Dec 18 07:10:55 2009
From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 2009 13:10:55 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] End of 2009 lists
In-Reply-To: <f160a1210912171609u7836575bn14c94e4a18c88654@mail.gmail.com>
References: <f160a1210912171609u7836575bn14c94e4a18c88654@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4b65c2d70912180410k65b733ar97f5d426fd250112@mail.gmail.com>

You are a little tyrant by limiting our list to _*no more than four*_ that
no at the beginning...!
Anyhow, what about the following:

http://AllAndOnlyFriedrichNietzsche.blogspot.com
http://Baudelaire'sAbyss.blogspot.com
http://MichelangeloMerisiDaCaravaggio.blogspot.com
http://LeonardoDaVinciVeniVidiVici.blogspot.com


?


On Fri, Dec 18, 2009 at 1:09 AM, Halvard Johnson <halvard at gmail.com> wrote:

> The only end of 2009 lists I'm planning to read this year are your
> lists of Ron Silliman's best links lists. Please limit your list to no
> more than four. Thank you.
>
> The deadline is . . . well, let's see . . . Jan. 1, 2010.
>
> Hal
>
> "We don't serve fine wine in half-pints, buddy."
>                   --Robert Ashley
>
> Halvard Johnson
> ================
> halvard at gmail.com
> http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home
> http://entropyandme.blogspot.com
> http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com
> http://www.hamiltonstone.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
>


-- 
Anny Ballardini
http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078
http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html
I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing
star!
Friedrich Nietzsche

? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique
vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ?
Giovenale
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From david.bircumshaw at ntlworld.com  Fri Dec 18 07:16:27 2009
From: david.bircumshaw at ntlworld.com (David Bircumshaw)
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 2009 12:16:27 -0000
Subject: [New-Poetry] The Poet's Cookbook
References: <8CC4D5A1810BAC8-306C-CA3D@webmail-d086.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <791F08FB73204AE48E74BD888D901DB5@SN037832120162>

Is this not shades of Gertrude Stein or does my memory false counsel me?


David Bircumshaw
Website: http://www.staplednapkin.org.uk
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: jforjames at aol.com 
  To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu 
  Sent: Thursday, December 17, 2009 6:01 PM
  Subject: [New-Poetry] The Poet's Cookbook


  http://blog.beliefnet.com/beyondblue/2009/12/the-poets-cookbook.html
  Hot off the presses is Grace's newest book, edited with Sabine Pascarelli. An interesting concept, it is called "The Poet's Cookbook: Recipes from Tuscany." Grace and Sabine feature 28 poets and even more scrumptious recipes.

  What does poetry and cooking have to do with each other? Grace writes this in her introduction: 

  Cooking speaks of community, in Italy and America; and the breaking of bread in any language, in every country, speaks of a commonality with friends. In this spirit, although the recipes are our own, we asked that the poems included be from our friends, other poets. 


------------------------------------------------------------------------------


  _______________________________________________
  New-Poetry mailing list
  New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
  http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
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From anny.ballardini at gmail.com  Fri Dec 18 07:58:29 2009
From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 2009 13:58:29 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] The Poet's Cookbook
In-Reply-To: <791F08FB73204AE48E74BD888D901DB5@SN037832120162>
References: <8CC4D5A1810BAC8-306C-CA3D@webmail-d086.sysops.aol.com>
	<791F08FB73204AE48E74BD888D901DB5@SN037832120162>
Message-ID: <4b65c2d70912180458s235d100aw26d530222b9f641f@mail.gmail.com>

Your memory counsels you well, my dear friend.

What about Ronald Johnson's Cookbooks, I'd love to find them...
talking about whom:
http://media.sas.upenn.edu/pennsound/authors/Johnson-R/Johnson-Ronald_Complete-Reading_Stanford-University_11-19-89.mp3

his reading at Stanford University, courtesy of Ron Silliman, aka the big
pot of goodies.

On Fri, Dec 18, 2009 at 1:16 PM, David Bircumshaw <
david.bircumshaw at ntlworld.com> wrote:

>  Is this not shades of Gertrude Stein or does my memory false counsel me?
>
>
> David Bircumshaw
> Website: http://www.staplednapkin.org.uk
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* jforjames at aol.com
> *To:* new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> *Sent:* Thursday, December 17, 2009 6:01 PM
> *Subject:* [New-Poetry] The Poet's Cookbook
>
> http://blog.beliefnet.com/beyondblue/2009/12/the-poets-cookbook.html
> Hot off the presses is Grace's newest book, edited with Sabine Pascarelli.
> An interesting concept, it is called "The Poet's Cookbook: Recipes from
> Tuscany." Grace and Sabine feature 28 poets and even more scrumptious
> recipes.
>
> What does poetry and cooking have to do with each other? Grace writes this
> in her introduction:
>
> Cooking speaks of community, in Italy and America; and the breaking of
> bread in any language, in every country, speaks of a commonality with
> friends. In this spirit, although the recipes are our own, we asked that the
> poems included be from our friends, other poets.
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
>


-- 
Anny Ballardini
http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078
http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html
I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing
star!
Friedrich Nietzsche

? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique
vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ?
Giovenale
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From halvard at gmail.com  Fri Dec 18 09:16:56 2009
From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson)
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 2009 08:16:56 -0600
Subject: [New-Poetry] End of 2009 lists
In-Reply-To: <4b65c2d70912180410k65b733ar97f5d426fd250112@mail.gmail.com>
References: <f160a1210912171609u7836575bn14c94e4a18c88654@mail.gmail.com>
	<4b65c2d70912180410k65b733ar97f5d426fd250112@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <f160a1210912180616y3aec7221nf68c8af99b60c9a1@mail.gmail.com>

No, no, Anny. I'm a BIG tyrant, but your limit is not
four ITEMS but four of RS's LISTS of links, those
he puts out at least once a week nowadays.

I'll happily look into these ones though.

Hal

"We don't serve fine wine in half-pints, buddy."
                  --Robert Ashley

Halvard Johnson
================
halvard at gmail.com
http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home
http://entropyandme.blogspot.com
http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com
http://www.hamiltonstone.org


On Fri, Dec 18, 2009 at 6:10 AM, Anny Ballardini
<anny.ballardini at gmail.com>wrote:

> You are a little tyrant by limiting our list to _*no more than four*_ that
> no at the beginning...!
> Anyhow, what about the following:
>
> http://AllAndOnlyFriedrichNietzsche.blogspot.com
> http://Baudelaire'sAbyss.blogspot.com
> http://MichelangeloMerisiDaCaravaggio.blogspot.com
> http://LeonardoDaVinciVeniVidiVici.blogspot.com
>
>
> ?
>
>
> On Fri, Dec 18, 2009 at 1:09 AM, Halvard Johnson <halvard at gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> The only end of 2009 lists I'm planning to read this year are your
>> lists of Ron Silliman's best links lists. Please limit your list to no
>> more than four. Thank you.
>>
>> The deadline is . . . well, let's see . . . Jan. 1, 2010.
>>
>> Hal
>>
>> "We don't serve fine wine in half-pints, buddy."
>>                   --Robert Ashley
>>
>> Halvard Johnson
>> ================
>> halvard at gmail.com
>> http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home
>> http://entropyandme.blogspot.com
>> http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com
>> http://www.hamiltonstone.org
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> New-Poetry mailing list
>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Anny Ballardini
> http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
> http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
> http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078
> http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html
> I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing
> star!
> Friedrich Nietzsche
>
> ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique
> vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ?
> Giovenale
>
>
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From jforjames at aol.com  Fri Dec 18 10:33:43 2009
From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 2009 10:33:43 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] The Poet's Cookbook
In-Reply-To: <791F08FB73204AE48E74BD888D901DB5@SN037832120162>
References: <8CC4D5A1810BAC8-306C-CA3D@webmail-d086.sysops.aol.com>
	<791F08FB73204AE48E74BD888D901DB5@SN037832120162>
Message-ID: <8CC4E0E9DA60163-49A8-4E4A@webmail-m027.sysops.aol.com>


So Good


Today I am a pie case
all glass and polished chrome,
slowly revolving, round & round
I go chockful of luscious layer cakes, 
pies with golden crusts oozing cherry 
filling, apple and strawberry rhubarb,
key lime and coconut cream
heaped with swirls of meringue, slabs 
of cheese cake and dark chocolate mouse.
Today I am a pie case. Come, look inside, 
you can stare as long as you want to,
mesmerized, saliva welling in the mouth, 
all so good, so hard to choose. Pick 
something out, anything you?d like. 




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From GrahamD at ripon.edu  Fri Dec 18 11:00:15 2009
From: GrahamD at ripon.edu (David Graham)
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 2009 10:00:15 -0600
Subject: [New-Poetry] Sonnet:  more of same
Message-ID: <94A86D2A-A262-4D29-9AA0-5EB78DAE85AC@ripon.edu>

Sonnet: More of Same

Try to avoid the pattern that has been avoided,
the avoidance pattern. It?s not as easy as it looks:
The herringbone is floating eagerly up
from the herring to become parquet. Or whatever suits it.
New fractals clamor to be identical
to their sisters. Half of them succeed. The others
go on to be Proven?al floral prints some sleepy but ingenious
weaver created halfway through the eighteenth century,
and they never came to life until now.

It?s like practicing a scale: at once different and never the  same.
Ask not why we do these things. Ask why we find them meaningful.
Ask the cuckoo transfixed in mid-flight
between the pagoda and the hermit?s rococo cave. He may tell you.

--John Ashbery.  Where Shall I Wander?  Ecco Press, 2005.



========================================
David Graham
grahamd at ripon.edu

Home Page:
http://web.me.com/drjazz

Poetry Library:
http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html
==========================================




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From jforjames at aol.com  Fri Dec 18 11:15:57 2009
From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 2009 11:15:57 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Sonnet:  more of same
In-Reply-To: <94A86D2A-A262-4D29-9AA0-5EB78DAE85AC@ripon.edu>
References: <94A86D2A-A262-4D29-9AA0-5EB78DAE85AC@ripon.edu>
Message-ID: <8CC4E1484296354-49A8-5B84@webmail-m027.sysops.aol.com>


Reminds me of James Tate's poetry...particularly where it ends.
Finnegan



-----Original Message-----
From: David Graham <GrahamD at ripon.edu>
To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu &amp; Views <new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
Sent: Fri, Dec 18, 2009 11:00 am
Subject: [New-Poetry] Sonnet: more of same


Sonnet: More of Same


Try to avoid the pattern that has been avoided,
the avoidance pattern. It?s not as easy as it looks:
The herringbone is floating eagerly up
from the herring to become parquet. Or whatever suits it.
New fractals clamor to be identical
to their sisters. Half of them succeed. The others
go on to be Proven?al floral prints some sleepy but ingenious
weaver created halfway through the eighteenth century,
and they never came to life until now.


It?s like practicing a scale: at once different and never the  same.
Ask not why we do these things. Ask why we find them meaningful.
Ask the cuckoo transfixed in mid-flight
between the pagoda and the hermit?s rococo cave. He may tell you.


--John Ashbery.  Where Shall I Wander?  Ecco Press, 2005.






========================================
David Graham
grahamd at ripon.edu


Home Page:
http://web.me.com/drjazz


Poetry Library:
http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html
==========================================






= 

_______________________________________________
ew-Poetry mailing list
ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry

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From grahamd at ripon.edu  Fri Dec 18 11:19:31 2009
From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham)
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 2009 10:19:31 -0600
Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Sonnet:  more of same
In-Reply-To: <8CC4E1484296354-49A8-5B84@webmail-m027.sysops.aol.com>
References: <94A86D2A-A262-4D29-9AA0-5EB78DAE85AC@ripon.edu>
	<8CC4E1484296354-49A8-5B84@webmail-m027.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <538DD353-C7DA-4C45-9A8B-FED1C34A657B@ripon.edu>

I see what you mean.  Back in the late 1970s, when I was in his classes, there were two poets Tate seemed to mention with greatest admiration:  Ashbery and Ammons.




========================================
David Graham
grahamd at ripon.edu

Home Page:
http://web.me.com/drjazz

Poetry Library:
http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html
==========================================




On Dec 18, 2009, at 10:15 AM, JforJames at aol.com wrote:

> Reminds me of James Tate's poetry...particularly where it ends.
> Finnegan
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: David Graham <GrahamD at ripon.edu>
> To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu &amp; Views <new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
> Sent: Fri, Dec 18, 2009 11:00 am
> Subject: [New-Poetry] Sonnet: more of same
> 
> Sonnet: More of Same
> 
> Try to avoid the pattern that has been avoided,
> the avoidance pattern. It?s not as easy as it looks:
> The herringbone is floating eagerly up
> from the herring to become parquet. Or whatever suits it.
> New fractals clamor to be identical
> to their sisters. Half of them succeed. The others
> go on to be Proven?al floral prints some sleepy but ingenious
> weaver created halfway through the eighteenth century,
> and they never came to life until now.
> 
> It?s like practicing a scale: at once different and never the  same.
> Ask not why we do these things. Ask why we find them meaningful.
> Ask the cuckoo transfixed in mid-flight
> between the pagoda and the hermit?s rococo cave. He may tell you.
> 
> --John Ashbery.  Where Shall I Wander?  Ecco Press, 2005.
> 
> 

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From rsgwynn1 at cs.com  Fri Dec 18 11:36:37 2009
From: rsgwynn1 at cs.com (rsgwynn1 at cs.com)
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 2009 11:36:37 EST
Subject: [New-Poetry] Sonnet:  more of same
Message-ID: <9a3d.47e6643.385d0995@cs.com>

In a message dated 12/18/2009 10:01:00 AM Central Standard Time, 
GrahamD at ripon.edu writes: 
> 
> Sonnet: More of Same
> 
> 
> Try to avoid the pattern that has been avoided,
> the avoidance pattern. It?s not as easy as it looks:
> The herringbone is floating eagerly up
> from the herring to become parquet. Or whatever suits it.
> New fractals clamor to be identical
> to their sisters. Half of them succeed. The others
> go on to be Proven?al floral prints some sleepy but ingenious
> weaver created halfway through the eighteenth century,
> and they never came to life until now.
> 
> 
> It?s like practicing a scale: at once different and never the  same.
> Ask not why we do these things. Ask why we find them meaningful.
> Ask the cuckoo transfixed in mid-flight
> between the pagoda and the hermit?s rococo cave. He may tell you.
> 
> 
> --John Ashbery.  Where Shall I Wander?  Ecco Press, 2005.
> 
> 
> 
So-not.
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From anny.ballardini at gmail.com  Fri Dec 18 11:44:02 2009
From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 2009 17:44:02 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] The Poet's Cookbook
In-Reply-To: <8CC4E0E9DA60163-49A8-4E4A@webmail-m027.sysops.aol.com>
References: <8CC4D5A1810BAC8-306C-CA3D@webmail-d086.sysops.aol.com>
	<791F08FB73204AE48E74BD888D901DB5@SN037832120162>
	<8CC4E0E9DA60163-49A8-4E4A@webmail-m027.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <4b65c2d70912180844l4a2db855q3ecf87b2dc5e94a0@mail.gmail.com>

I want the chocolate one!

On Fri, Dec 18, 2009 at 4:33 PM, <jforjames at aol.com> wrote:

> So Good
>
>
> Today I am a pie case
> all glass and polished chrome,
> slowly revolving, round & round
> I go chockful of luscious layer cakes,
> pies with golden crusts oozing cherry
> filling, apple and strawberry rhubarb,
> key lime and coconut cream
> heaped with swirls of meringue, slabs
> of cheese cake and dark chocolate mouse.
> Today I am a pie case. Come, look inside,
> you can stare as long as you want to,
> mesmerized, saliva welling in the mouth,
> all so good, so hard to choose. Pick
> something out, anything you?d like.
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
>


-- 
Anny Ballardini
http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078
http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html
I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing
star!
Friedrich Nietzsche

? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique
vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ?
Giovenale
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From jforjames at aol.com  Fri Dec 18 12:18:01 2009
From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 2009 12:18:01 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: The Religion Issue
In-Reply-To: <954A5413620E074797298540927621C51791DB60@sjcexchange.SJC.EDU>
References: <121720092306.29416.4B2AB96700049EDF000072E822216128369B0A02D29B9B0EBF9C9C0A9D9F0207010C0B010199@att.net>
	<954A5413620E074797298540927621C51791DB60@sjcexchange.SJC.EDU>
Message-ID: <8CC4E1D2F232AE5-49A8-6EA4@webmail-m027.sysops.aol.com>



-----Original Message-----
From: Wood Coin [mailto:woodcoinpress at att.net]
Sent: Thu 12/17/2009 6:06 PM
To: woodcoinpress at att.net
Subject: The Religion Issue

Now live at the online magazine of literature & liberal arts, woodcoin.net:


RELIGION, SPIRIT, PROPHECY/ ISSUE


With AnnyNymity, Joe David Bellamy, Philip Corner, Hugh Fox, Carl Ginsburg, Guy J. Jackson, Lyn Lifshin, Simon Perchik, Barbara Rosenthal, Jerome Rothenberg; and cover art by Brando Williams. 


James Beach, editor/publisher



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From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net  Fri Dec 18 12:59:33 2009
From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman)
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 2009 12:59:33 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Sonnet:  more of same
In-Reply-To: <8CC4E1484296354-49A8-5B84@webmail-m027.sysops.aol.com>
References: <94A86D2A-A262-4D29-9AA0-5EB78DAE85AC@ripon.edu>
	<8CC4E1484296354-49A8-5B84@webmail-m027.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <4B2BC305.7090803@nut-n-but.net>

jforjames at aol.com wrote:
> Reminds me of James Tate's poetry...particularly where it ends.
> Finnegan
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: David Graham <GrahamD at ripon.edu>
> To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu &amp; Views <new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
> Sent: Fri, Dec 18, 2009 11:00 am
> Subject: [New-Poetry] Sonnet: more of same
>
> *Sonnet: More of Same*
>
> Try to avoid the pattern that has been avoided,
> the avoidance pattern. It?s not as easy as it looks:
> The herringbone is floating eagerly up
> from the herring to become parquet. Or whatever suits it.
> New fractals clamor to be identical
> to their sisters. Half of them succeed. The others
> go on to be Proven?al floral prints some sleepy but ingenious
> weaver created halfway through the eighteenth century,
> and they never came to life until now.
>
> It?s like practicing a scale: at once different and never the  same.
> Ask not why we do these things. Ask why we find them meaningful.
> Ask the cuckoo transfixed in mid-flight
> between the pagoda and the hermit?s rococo cave. He may tell you.
>
> --John Ashbery.  /Where Shall I Wander?/  Ecco Press, 2005.
>
The last two lines are pure Stevens.  The rest are tripe.

Fact, Hal and Jeff.

--Der Factmeister

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From amyhappens at yahoo.com  Fri Dec 18 13:20:42 2009
From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king)
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 2009 10:20:42 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [New-Poetry] Sunday,
	December 20th -- Elaine Equi / Bob Viscusi Amy King /
	Doug Holder & Ana Bozicevic with music by Brant Lyon
Message-ID: <17293.2043.qm@web83304.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>

We'll save you from the evil snowmen! Brave the flakes & come on over for an impromptu holiday spectacular.



Elaine Equi / Bob Viscusi 
Amy King / Doug Holder 
& Ana Bozicevic
with music by Brant Lyon



hosted by Iris N. Schwartz


Sunday, December 20, 2009
Time:   6:00pm - 8:00pm

Cornelia Street Caf?
29 Cornelia St.
(between Bleecker & West 4th Sts.)
NYC
www.corneliastreetcafe.com 



Directions: All trains to West 4th St. or # 1 train to Christopher St.
Cover: $7 (includes one house drink)


http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=210563179538
 
_______

NEW BOOK
Slaves to Do These Things -- http://www.blazevox.org/bk-ak3.htm 


      



From jforjames at aol.com  Fri Dec 18 16:10:07 2009
From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 2009 16:10:07 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] obscurious and obscuriouser
Message-ID: <8CC4E3D9C966F81-5808-A87C@webmail-m088.sysops.aol.com>


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/travis-nichols/infidel-poetics-and-magic_b_384590.html

It's Nada Gordon's poem "Unicorn Believers Don't Declare Fatwahs" from Poetry Magazine's Flarf and Conceptual Poetry sampler, and it is obscure.

People who talk about poetry have been talking about this kind of poem as a problem--if not the problem--of contemporary poetry for years. It's obscure. It's not accessible. It's no help. Which is why no one reads it. But what if--as Daniel Tiffany argues in his new book, Infidel Poetics--it's not a problem at all. What if this very obscurity is what makes poetry poetry? 

Then, of course, Blago is in even more trouble than we thought, and poetry is in a golden age. The golden age of lyric obscurity.

According to Tiffany, lyric obscurity is not, as Kipling might have it, a failure to deliver a pearl of wisdom. Lyric obscurity presents a different kind of exchange, and one that could be incredibly valuable for readers if a) poets would stop pretending to be "clear" prose writers, and b) if readers would stop expecting pearls of wisdom and start entering into the sublime.

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From Rsgwynn1 at cs.com  Fri Dec 18 16:25:50 2009
From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com (Rsgwynn1 at cs.com)
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 2009 16:25:50 EST
Subject: [New-Poetry] obscurious and obscuriouser
Message-ID: <caf.57d1e8ac.385d4d5e@cs.com>

In a message dated 12/18/2009 3:11:02 PM Central Standard Time, 
jforjames at aol.com writes: 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.huffingtonpost.com/travis-nichols/infidel-poetics-and-magic_b_384590.html
>   
>  It's Nada Gordon's poem "Unicorn Believers Don't Declare Fatwahs" from 
> Poetry Magazine's Flarf and Conceptual Poetry sampler, and it is obscure.
>   
>  People who talk about poetry have been talking about this kind of poem as 
> a problem--if not the problem--of contemporary poetry for years. It's 
> obscure. It's not accessible. It's no help. Which is why no one reads it. But 
> what if--as Daniel Tiffany argues in his new book, Infidel Poetics--it's not 
> a problem at all. What if this very obscurity is what makes poetry poetry? 
> 
>  
>  Then, of course, Blago is in even more trouble than we thought, and 
> poetry is in a golden age. The golden age of lyric obscurity.
>   
>  According to Tiffany, lyric obscurity is not, as Kipling might have it, a 
> failure to deliver a pearl of wisdom. Lyric obscurity presents a different 
> kind of exchange, and one that could be incredibly valuable for readers if 
> a) poets would stop pretending to be "clear" prose writers, and b) if 
> readers would stop expecting pearls of wisdom and start entering into the 
> sublime.
> 
> 
Nada.
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From halvard at gmail.com  Fri Dec 18 16:57:11 2009
From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson)
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 2009 15:57:11 -0600
Subject: [New-Poetry] obscurious and obscuriouser
In-Reply-To: <caf.57d1e8ac.385d4d5e@cs.com>
References: <caf.57d1e8ac.385d4d5e@cs.com>
Message-ID: <f160a1210912181357k35878da6ma2c8d653b38c9457@mail.gmail.com>

Todo.

"We don't serve fine wine in half-pints, buddy."
                  --Robert Ashley

Halvard Johnson
================
halvard at gmail.com
http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home
http://entropyandme.blogspot.com
http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com
http://www.hamiltonstone.org


On Fri, Dec 18, 2009 at 3:25 PM, <Rsgwynn1 at cs.com> wrote:

> In a message dated 12/18/2009 3:11:02 PM Central Standard Time,
> jforjames at aol.com writes:
>
>
>
>
> http://www.huffingtonpost.com/travis-nichols/infidel-poetics-and-magic_b_384590.html
>
> It's Nada Gordon's poem "Unicorn Believers Don't Declare Fatwahs" from
> Poetry Magazine's Flarf and Conceptual Poetry sampler, and it is obscure.
>
> People who talk about poetry have been talking about this kind of poem as a
> problem--if not the problem--of contemporary poetry for years. It's obscure.
> It's not accessible. It's no help. Which is why no one reads it. But what
> if--as Daniel Tiffany argues in his new book, Infidel Poetics--it's not a
> problem at all. What if this very obscurity is what makes poetry poetry?
>
> Then, of course, Blago is in even more trouble than we thought, and poetry
> is in a golden age. The golden age of lyric obscurity.
>
> According to Tiffany, lyric obscurity is not, as Kipling might have it, a
> failure to deliver a pearl of wisdom. Lyric obscurity presents a different
> kind of exchange, and one that could be incredibly valuable for readers if
> a) poets would stop pretending to be "clear" prose writers, and b) if
> readers would stop expecting pearls of wisdom and start entering into the
> sublime.
>
>
> Nada.
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
>
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From david.bircumshaw at ntlworld.com  Fri Dec 18 17:47:57 2009
From: david.bircumshaw at ntlworld.com (David Bircumshaw)
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 2009 22:47:57 -0000
Subject: [New-Poetry] Ashbery Beeb
References: <8CC4D5A1810BAC8-306C-CA3D@webmail-d086.sysops.aol.com><791F08FB73204AE48E74BD888D901DB5@SN037832120162>
	<4b65c2d70912180458s235d100aw26d530222b9f641f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <28EDFDD64AB8489B88E2EDB4896F60A1@SN037832120162>

Some twenty minutes into the show, and after some very British things, the unusual appearance of John Ashbery being interviewed on BBC Radio 4's 'Front Row':

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00p85vd


David Bircumshaw
Website: http://www.staplednapkin.org.uk
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From jforjames at aol.com  Fri Dec 18 18:34:17 2009
From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 2009 18:34:17 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] USA Fellow in Lit 2009
Message-ID: <8CC4E51BFF6B55D-1CC8-D1FB@webmail-m045.sysops.aol.com>


http://www.unitedstatesartists.org/Public2/USAFellows/2009Fellows/Alphabetically/Ai/index.cfm

USA Fellows 2009
Literature 
 
Ai 
Nilo Cruz 
Gilbert Hernandez 
Antonya Nelson 
Sapphire 
Justin Torres 
Brian Turner 
Kevin Young 
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From elemenope_productions at hotmail.com  Fri Dec 18 19:57:27 2009
From: elemenope_productions at hotmail.com (R Dillon)
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 2009 00:57:27 +0000
Subject: [New-Poetry] Sonnet: more of same
In-Reply-To: <200912181700.nBIH05DP011952@wiz.cath.vt.edu>
References: <200912181700.nBIH05DP011952@wiz.cath.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <SNT133-w57DDF7FCEBD591638C839B90840@phx.gbl>


The herringbone pattern came into textile design,

as I recall, just in time for the birth of Christ.

One of my agents closely inspected the Shroud of Turin.  

We know for sure that this magnificent enigma

is woven in the classic herringbone pattern.

Hence, it is a classic play of word and sign

straight out of Phenomenology by way of Astrology:

The religion of Fishes as prophesied via Tut's Pyramids.

 

 

Merry Christmas, Everybody!

 

 

R.E. Dillon

 

 


 > > Sonnet: More of Same
> > 
> > Try to avoid the pattern that has been avoided,
> > the avoidance pattern. It?s not as easy as it looks:
> > The herringbone is floating eagerly up
> > from the herring to become parquet. Or whatever suits it.
> > New fractals clamor to be identical
> > to their sisters. Half of them succeed. The others
> > go on to be Proven?al floral prints some sleepy but ingenious
> > weaver created halfway through the eighteenth century,
> > and they never came to life until now.
> > 
> > It?s like practicing a scale: at once different and never the same.
> > Ask not why we do these things. Ask why we find them meaningful.
> > Ask the cuckoo transfixed in mid-flight
> > between the pagoda and the hermit?s rococo cave. He may tell you.
> > 
> > --John Ashbery. Where Shall I Wander? Ecco Press, 2005.
 		 	   		  
_________________________________________________________________
Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Get Windows Live Hotmail Free.
http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/171222985/direct/01/
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From robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com  Fri Dec 18 20:26:32 2009
From: robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com (Robin Hamilton)
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 2009 20:26:32 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Sonnet:  more of same
In-Reply-To: <4B2BC305.7090803@nut-n-but.net>
References: <94A86D2A-A262-4D29-9AA0-5EB78DAE85AC@ripon.edu><8CC4E1484296354-49A8-5B84@webmail-m027.sysops.aol.com>
	<4B2BC305.7090803@nut-n-but.net>
Message-ID: <56AE0A6FE7254F51B6E4BE8388033C74@RobinLaptopPC>


  Ask the cuckoo transfixed in mid-flight
    between the pagoda and the hermit?s rococo cave. He may tell you.


    --John Ashbery.  Where Shall I Wander?  Ecco Press, 2005.


  The last two lines are pure Stevens.  The rest are tripe.

  Fact, Hal and Jeff.

  --Der Factmeister

  Actually, Bob, to my ear they are more Rilke than Stevens, one of the Duino Elegies for the penultimate line in particular.

  Counter-fractal?

  R.
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From david.bircumshaw at ntlworld.com  Sat Dec 19 02:18:23 2009
From: david.bircumshaw at ntlworld.com (David Bircumshaw)
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 2009 07:18:23 -0000
Subject: [New-Poetry] The Poet's Cookbook
References: <8CC4D5A1810BAC8-306C-CA3D@webmail-d086.sysops.aol.com><791F08FB73204AE48E74BD888D901DB5@SN037832120162>
	<4b65c2d70912180458s235d100aw26d530222b9f641f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CF8CCDD561F1488EA9DD19EF705F388C@SN037832120162>

Thank you Anny

best

Dave


David Bircumshaw
Website: http://www.staplednapkin.org.uk
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Anny Ballardini 
  To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &amp,Views 
  Sent: Friday, December 18, 2009 12:58 PM
  Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] The Poet's Cookbook


  Your memory counsels you well, my dear friend.

  What about Ronald Johnson's Cookbooks, I'd love to find them...
  talking about whom:
  http://media.sas.upenn.edu/pennsound/authors/Johnson-R/Johnson-Ronald_Complete-Reading_Stanford-University_11-19-89.mp3

  his reading at Stanford University, courtesy of Ron Silliman, aka the big pot of goodies.


  On Fri, Dec 18, 2009 at 1:16 PM, David Bircumshaw <david.bircumshaw at ntlworld.com> wrote:

    Is this not shades of Gertrude Stein or does my memory false counsel me?


    David Bircumshaw
    Website: http://www.staplednapkin.org.uk
      ----- Original Message ----- 
      From: jforjames at aol.com 
      To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu 
      Sent: Thursday, December 17, 2009 6:01 PM
      Subject: [New-Poetry] The Poet's Cookbook


      http://blog.beliefnet.com/beyondblue/2009/12/the-poets-cookbook.html
      Hot off the presses is Grace's newest book, edited with Sabine Pascarelli. An interesting concept, it is called "The Poet's Cookbook: Recipes from Tuscany." Grace and Sabine feature 28 poets and even more scrumptious recipes.

      What does poetry and cooking have to do with each other? Grace writes this in her introduction: 

      Cooking speaks of community, in Italy and America; and the breaking of bread in any language, in every country, speaks of a commonality with friends. In this spirit, although the recipes are our own, we asked that the poems included be from our friends, other poets. 


--------------------------------------------------------------------------


      _______________________________________________
      New-Poetry mailing list
      New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
      http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry


    _______________________________________________
    New-Poetry mailing list
    New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
    http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry





  -- 
  Anny Ballardini
  http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
  http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
  http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078
  http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html
  I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! 
  Friedrich Nietzsche

  ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique
  vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ?
  Giovenale




------------------------------------------------------------------------------


  _______________________________________________
  New-Poetry mailing list
  New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
  http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
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From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net  Sat Dec 19 06:02:13 2009
From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman)
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 2009 06:02:13 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Sonnet:  more of same
In-Reply-To: <56AE0A6FE7254F51B6E4BE8388033C74@RobinLaptopPC>
References: <94A86D2A-A262-4D29-9AA0-5EB78DAE85AC@ripon.edu><8CC4E1484296354-49A8-5B84@webmail-m027.sysops.aol.com><4B2BC305.7090
	803@nut-n-but.net> <56AE0A6FE7254F51B6E4BE8388033C74@RobinLaptopPC>
Message-ID: <4B2CB2B5.2090303@nut-n-but.net>

Robin Hamilton wrote:
>  
>
>     Ask the cuckoo transfixed in mid-flight
>>     between the pagoda and the hermit?s rococo cave. He may tell you.
>>
>>     --John Ashbery.  /Where Shall I Wander?/  Ecco Press, 2005.
>>
>     The last two lines are pure Stevens.  The rest are tripe.
>
>     Fact, Hal and Jeff.
>
>     --Der Factmeister
>      
>     *Actually, Bob, to my ear they are more Rilke than Stevens, one of
>     the Duino Elegies for the penultimate line in particular.*
>     ** 
>     *Counter-fractal?*
>     ** 
>     *R.*
>
No reason they can't be both, Bobbin

- Der Fractalmeister
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From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net  Sat Dec 19 06:08:20 2009
From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman)
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 2009 06:08:20 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Sonnet:  more of same
In-Reply-To: <56AE0A6FE7254F51B6E4BE8388033C74@RobinLaptopPC>
References: <94A86D2A-A262-4D29-9AA0-5EB78DAE85AC@ripon.edu><8CC4E1484296354-49A8-5B84@webmail-m027.sysops.aol.com><4B2BC305.7090
	803@nut-n-but.net> <56AE0A6FE7254F51B6E4BE8388033C74@RobinLaptopPC>
Message-ID: <4B2CB424.3010805@nut-n-but.net>

Robin Hamilton wrote:
>  
>
>     Ask the cuckoo transfixed in mid-flight
>>     between the pagoda and the hermit?s rococo cave. He may tell you.
>>
>>     --John Ashbery.  /Where Shall I Wander?/  Ecco Press, 2005.
>>
>     The last two lines are pure Stevens.  The rest are tripe.
>
>     Fact, Hal and Jeff.
>
>     --Der Factmeister
>      
>     *Actually, Bob, to my ear they are more Rilke than Stevens, one of
>     the Duino Elegies for the penultimate line in particular.*
>     ** 
>     *Counter-fractal?*
>     ** 
>     *R.*
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>   

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From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net  Sat Dec 19 06:07:55 2009
From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman)
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 2009 06:07:55 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Sonnet:  more of same
In-Reply-To: <56AE0A6FE7254F51B6E4BE8388033C74@RobinLaptopPC>
References: <94A86D2A-A262-4D29-9AA0-5EB78DAE85AC@ripon.edu><8CC4E1484296354-49A8-5B84@webmail-m027.sysops.aol.com><4B2BC305.7090
	803@nut-n-but.net> <56AE0A6FE7254F51B6E4BE8388033C74@RobinLaptopPC>
Message-ID: <4B2CB40B.6080409@nut-n-but.net>

Robin Hamilton wrote:
>  
>
>     Ask the cuckoo transfixed in mid-flight
>>     between the pagoda and the hermit?s rococo cave. He may tell you.
>>
>>     --John Ashbery.  /Where Shall I Wander?/  Ecco Press, 2005.
>>
>     The last two lines are pure Stevens.  The rest are tripe.
>
>     Fact, Hal and Jeff.
>
>     --Der Factmeister
>      
>     *Actually, Bob, to my ear they are more Rilke than Stevens, one of
>     the Duino Elegies for the penultimate line in particular.*
>     ** 
>     *Counter-fractal?*
>     ** 
>     *R.*
>
Oops, you caught me good, Robin.  How can something English sound more 
like something French than like something English.  Also, there's a lot 
more to the lines than their sound.  Choice of images, the way the 
images are used, point seeming to have gone for, all seem Stevens to 
me.  The "hermit's rococo cave," especially.  Maybe Tate, too, but I 
don't know his work very well--or at all although I've read some of his 
poems.

--Bob
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From robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com  Sat Dec 19 10:35:14 2009
From: robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com (Robin Hamilton)
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 2009 10:35:14 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Sonnet:  more of same
In-Reply-To: <4B2CB40B.6080409@nut-n-but.net>
References: <94A86D2A-A262-4D29-9AA0-5EB78DAE85AC@ripon.edu><8CC4E1484296354-49A8-5B84@webmail-m027.sysops.aol.com><4B2BC305.7090803@nut-n-but.net>
	<56AE0A6FE7254F51B6E4BE8388033C74@RobinLaptopPC>
	<4B2CB40B.6080409@nut-n-but.net>
Message-ID: <8B82BCB2722343D094F46888FF0C5BFE@RobinLaptopPC>

Oops, you caught me good, Robin.  How can something English sound more like something French than like something English.  
...

--Bob

Um.  Bob, I kinda hate to say this, and it's entirely possible I may be wrong, but I was rather under the impression that Rilke wrote in German, not French.  <g>.

Robin "the devil is in the details".
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From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net  Sat Dec 19 12:33:55 2009
From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman)
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 2009 12:33:55 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Sonnet:  more of same
In-Reply-To: <8B82BCB2722343D094F46888FF0C5BFE@RobinLaptopPC>
References: <94A86D2A-A262-4D29-9AA0-5EB78DAE85AC@ripon.edu><8CC4E1484296354-49A8-5B84@webmail-m027.sysops.aol.com><4B2BC305.7090
	803@nut-n-but.net><56AE0A6FE7254F51B6E4BE8388033C74@RobinLaptopPC><4B2CB40B.6080409@nut-n-but.net>
	<8B82BCB2722343D094F46888FF0C5BFE@RobinLaptopPC>
Message-ID: <4B2D0E83.7040700@nut-n-but.net>

Robin Hamilton wrote:
> Oops, you caught me good, Robin.  How can something English sound more 
> like something French than like something English. 
> ...
>
> --Bob
>  
> *Um.  Bob, I kinda hate to say this, and it's entirely possible I may 
> be wrong, but I was rather under the impression that Rilke wrote in 
> German, not French.  <g>.*
> ** 
> *Robin "the devil is in the details".*
Right, Robin--I said French so you could avoid by devatasting 
counter-case by jumping on the error.  (Actually, as I wrote French I 
thought I was wrong but didn't remember what language he wrote in and 
thought the French were the only poets on the Continent . . . after 
those early Italians.)

--Bob
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From robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com  Sat Dec 19 12:42:17 2009
From: robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com (Robin Hamilton)
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 2009 12:42:17 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Sonnet:  more of same
In-Reply-To: <4B2D0E83.7040700@nut-n-but.net>
References: <94A86D2A-A262-4D29-9AA0-5EB78DAE85AC@ripon.edu><8CC4E1484296354-49A8-5B84@webmail-m027.sysops.aol.com><4B2BC305.7090803@nut-n-but.net><56AE0A6FE7254F51B6E4BE8388033C74@RobinLaptopPC><4B2CB40B.6080409@nut-n-but.net><8B82BCB2722343D094F46888FF0C5BFE@RobinLaptopPC>
	<4B2D0E83.7040700@nut-n-but.net>
Message-ID: <583F59AD3CCC4D72882B01B6D071878B@RobinLaptopPC>

Right, Robin--I said French so you could avoid by devatasting counter-case by jumping on the error.  (Actually, as I wrote French I thought I was wrong but didn't remember what language he wrote in and thought the French were the only poets on the Continent . . . after those early Italians.)

--Bob

Yeah, I realised you were cutting me some slack when you didn't ask which specific line of the Duino Elegies I had in mind.  So you're just saving it all up to land on me like a bag of coal when I mis-step.

So right, I'll see if I can track down just exactly which Elegy I had in mind.  Though damned if I'll quote it in German, which I don't read.

Which of course assumes I can find it and I'm not totally off-base with the Rilke connection.

C'mon, help, people -- surely there's someone on the list more au fait with Rilke than I (and Bob, if he's not simply concealing his knowledge, as he suggests, for some devious purpose) who can uncrumple this much-crumpled example of intertextuality.

Robin
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From GrahamD at ripon.edu  Sat Dec 19 13:03:47 2009
From: GrahamD at ripon.edu (Graham, David)
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 2009 12:03:47 -0600
Subject: [New-Poetry] Rilke in French
Message-ID: <3C3A5482-F020-44D9-A951-D1F7905D9A27@ripon.edu>


Rilke did write in French as well as German, though the poems aren't  
nearly as well known.  I have never heard anyone make a case for his  
being a great poet in that language.


David Graham
Grahamd at Ripon.edu
------------------------
Home page:
http://web.me.com/drjazz


From robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com  Sat Dec 19 13:19:17 2009
From: robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com (Robin Hamilton)
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 2009 13:19:17 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Rilke in French
In-Reply-To: <3C3A5482-F020-44D9-A951-D1F7905D9A27@ripon.edu>
References: <3C3A5482-F020-44D9-A951-D1F7905D9A27@ripon.edu>
Message-ID: <046ECD944E44471D8C4279387805ABBE@RobinLaptopPC>

> Rilke did write in French as well as German, though the poems aren't 
> nearly as well known.  I have never heard anyone make a case for his 
> being a great poet in that language.
>
> David Graham

Was that around the time he was associated with Rodin, David?

Flicking quickly through the selected Rilke that I have to hand (translated 
by Stephen Mitchell), there are some poems in French just at the end among 
the Uncollected Poems -- four prose poems, titled "[Four Sketches]".

So maybe Bob was righter than he intended in drawing attention to the French 
connection.

Robin 




From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net  Sat Dec 19 13:35:43 2009
From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman)
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 2009 13:35:43 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Sonnet:  more of same
In-Reply-To: <583F59AD3CCC4D72882B01B6D071878B@RobinLaptopPC>
References: <94A86D2A-A262-4D29-9AA0-5EB78DAE85AC@ripon.edu><8CC4E1484296354-49A8-5B84@webmail-m027.sysops.aol.com><4B2BC305.7090
	803@nut-n-but.net><56AE0A6FE7254F51B6E4BE8388033C74@RobinLaptopPC><4B2CB40B.6080409@nut-n-but.net><8B82BCB2722343D094F46888FF0C
	5BFE@RobinLaptopPC><4B2D0E83.7040700@nut-n-but.net>
	<583F59AD3CCC4D72882B01B6D071878B@RobinLaptopPC>
Message-ID: <4B2D1CFF.60208@nut-n-but.net>

Robin Hamilton wrote:
> Right, Robin--I said French so you could avoid by devatasting 
> counter-case by jumping on the error.  (Actually, as I wrote French I 
> thought I was wrong but didn't remember what language he wrote in and 
> thought the French were the only poets on the Continent . . . after 
> those early Italians.)
>
> --Bob
>  
> *Yeah,* *I realised you were cutting me some slack when you didn't ask 
> which specific line of the Duino Elegies I had in mind.  So you're 
> just saving it all up to land on me like a bag of coal when I mis-step.*
> ** 
> *So right, I'll see if I can track down just exactly which Elegy I had 
> in mind.  Though damned if I'll quote it in German, which I don't read.*
> ** 
> *Which of course assumes I can find it and I'm not totally off-base 
> with the Rilke connection.*
> ** 
> *C'mon, help, people -- surely there's someone on the list more au 
> fait with Rilke than I (and Bob, if he's not simply concealing his 
> knowledge, as he suggests, for some devious purpose) who can uncrumple 
> this much-crumpled example of intertextuality.*
> ** 
> *Robin*
I hope no one finds the line for you, Robin--'cause I doubt I could find 
a particular line from Stevens to counter it with.  I really don't think 
Ashbery was consciously alluding to any line.  From what I've read about 
his working procedure, he pretty much wings it, with no special aim in 
mind when he begins. I just intuitively feel the presence of Stevens in 
that passage.  Which doesn't mean Rilke might also apply.  Did either 
Stevens or Rilke know of the other>  I can't remember reading that 
Stevens knew much about Rilke.

--Bob
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From junction at earthlink.net  Sat Dec 19 13:35:08 2009
From: junction at earthlink.net (Mark Weiss)
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 2009 13:35:08 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Rilke in French
In-Reply-To: <046ECD944E44471D8C4279387805ABBE@RobinLaptopPC>
References: <3C3A5482-F020-44D9-A951-D1F7905D9A27@ripon.edu>
	<046ECD944E44471D8C4279387805ABBE@RobinLaptopPC>
Message-ID: <E1NM49E-0008Mn-18@elasmtp-spurfowl.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

His French poems are better than competent, but they're not likely to 
compel anyone to change his life.

At 01:19 PM 12/19/2009, you wrote:
>>Rilke did write in French as well as German, though the poems 
>>aren't nearly as well known.  I have never heard anyone make a case 
>>for his being a great poet in that language.
>>
>>David Graham
>
>Was that around the time he was associated with Rodin, David?
>
>Flicking quickly through the selected Rilke that I have to hand 
>(translated by Stephen Mitchell), there are some poems in French 
>just at the end among the Uncollected Poems -- four prose poems, 
>titled "[Four Sketches]".
>
>So maybe Bob was righter than he intended in drawing attention to 
>the French connection.
>
>Robin
>
>_______________________________________________
>New-Poetry mailing list
>New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry

Announcing The Whole Island: Six Decades of Cuban Poetry (University 
of California Press).
Forthcoming in November 2009.
http://go.ucpress.edu/WholeIsland





From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net  Sat Dec 19 13:41:12 2009
From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman)
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 2009 13:41:12 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Rilke in French
In-Reply-To: <046ECD944E44471D8C4279387805ABBE@RobinLaptopPC>
References: <3C3A5482-F020-44D9-A951-D1F7905D9A27@ripon.edu>
	<046ECD944E44471D8C4279387805ABBE@RobinLaptopPC>
Message-ID: <4B2D1E48.201@nut-n-but.net>

Robin Hamilton wrote:
>> Rilke did write in French as well as German, though the poems aren't 
>> nearly as well known.  I have never heard anyone make a case for his 
>> being a great poet in that language.
>>
>> David Graham
>
> Was that around the time he was associated with Rodin, David?
>
> Flicking quickly through the selected Rilke that I have to hand 
> (translated by Stephen Mitchell), there are some poems in French just 
> at the end among the Uncollected Poems -- four prose poems, titled 
> "[Four Sketches]".
>
> So maybe Bob was righter than he intended in drawing attention to the 
> French connection.
>
> Robin
He was a German-born French poet, obviously  (Funny, that I was sort of 
right, for I really don't know Rilke well.  Them furriners doesn't 
interest me much.

--Bob



From robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com  Sat Dec 19 14:00:06 2009
From: robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com (Robin Hamilton)
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 2009 14:00:06 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Sonnet:  more of same
In-Reply-To: <4B2D1CFF.60208@nut-n-but.net>
References: <94A86D2A-A262-4D29-9AA0-5EB78DAE85AC@ripon.edu><8CC4E1484296354-49A8-5B84@webmail-m027.sysops.aol.com><4B2BC305.7090803@nut-n-but.net><56AE0A6FE7254F51B6E4BE8388033C74@RobinLaptopPC><4B2CB40B.6080409@nut-n-but.net><8B82BCB2722343D094F46888FF0C5BFE@RobinLaptopPC><4B2D0E83.7040700@nut-n-but.net><583F59AD3CCC4D72882B01B6D071878B@RobinLaptopPC>
	<4B2D1CFF.60208@nut-n-but.net>
Message-ID: <0CF84331C56C44458A3F8DD82266489F@RobinLaptopPC>

I hope no one finds the line for you, Robin--'cause I doubt I could find a particular line from Stevens to counter it with.  

The problem (or one of them) that I have at the moment is that I have in my head a totally irrelevant line from Hugh McDiarmid about the tilt of a pigeon's wing on the machair (from "Perfect", though it depends which edition of Mcdiarmid you look at, whether or not you'll get to it, as the line was taken from a Welsh short story, and when this instance of plagarism was drawn to McDiarmid's attention, he dutifully withdrew the poem and replaced it, in the American Collected.  Thing was, he [which no one at the time noticed] replaced it with a few lines from Hart Crane's "The Bridge".  Make of that what you like.)

Anyway, the line from "Perfect" has nothing to do with the Ashbery poem (or at least I presume it doesn't) but it's getting between my faint memories of Rilke and the line I should be looking for.

Robin
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From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net  Sat Dec 19 14:37:26 2009
From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman)
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 2009 14:37:26 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Sonnet:  more of same
In-Reply-To: <0CF84331C56C44458A3F8DD82266489F@RobinLaptopPC>
References: <94A86D2A-A262-4D29-9AA0-5EB78DAE85AC@ripon.edu><8CC4E1484296354-49A8-5B84@webmail-m027.sysops.aol.com><4B2BC305.7090
	803@nut-n-but.net><56AE0A6FE7254F51B6E4BE8388033C74@RobinLaptopPC><4B2CB40B.6080409@nut-n-but.net><8B82BCB2722343D094F46888FF0C
	5BFE@RobinLaptopPC><4B2D0E83.7040700@nut-n-but.net><583F59AD3CCC4D72882B01B6D071878B@RobinLaptopPC><4B2D1CFF.60208@nut-n-but.ne
	t> <0CF84331C56C44458A3F8DD82266489F@RobinLaptopPC>
Message-ID: <4B2D2B76.70605@nut-n-but.net>

I really wish I liked Ashbery better (and I might have if he hadn't 
become so over-rated by the Establishment)--it'd be fun to go through 
Stevens and find lines the back my claim that the passage in question 
seems out of Stevens.

--Bob



From junction at earthlink.net  Sat Dec 19 15:08:55 2009
From: junction at earthlink.net (Mark Weiss)
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 2009 15:08:55 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Sonnet:  more of same
In-Reply-To: <4B2D1CFF.60208@nut-n-but.net>
References: <94A86D2A-A262-4D29-9AA0-5EB78DAE85AC@ripon.edu>
	<8CC4E1484296354-49A8-5B84@webmail-m027.sysops.aol.com>
	<4B2BC305.7090 803@nut-n-but.net>
	<56AE0A6FE7254F51B6E4BE8388033C74@RobinLaptopPC>
	<4B2CB40B.6080409@nut-n-but.net>
	<8B82BCB2722343D094F46888FF0C 5BFE@RobinLaptopPC>
	<4B2D0E83.7040700@nut-n-but.net>
	<583F59AD3CCC4D72882B01B6D071878B@RobinLaptopPC>
	<4B2D1CFF.60208@nut-n-but.net>
Message-ID: <E1NM5c0-0003Fa-Mu@elasmtp-spurfowl.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

Rilke was being published in English by the 
beginning of the 30s. Unlikely that he was an 
influence on Stevens, tho it's difficult to 
imagine that Stevens was unaware of him. Stevens' 
reading was fairly wide-ranging, more the rule 
than otherwise with English-language poets since 
at least the later anglo-saxon period. Chaucer, 
remember, translated much of the Roman de la 
Rose, probably the single most influential poem 
of his era, Charles d'Orleans is a major poet in 
both languages, and much of the German epic 
poetry of the period was available in French 
translation. Almost every English-language poet 
worth reading has been conversant with both the 
canons and contemporaries from across Europe and 
sometimes beyond, and a fair number have written 
at least a bit in other languages, and not always 
Latin. Stevens' poetry, like Ashbery's, is 
unimaginable without French poetry from Baudelaire on.

Monolingualism among English language poets is 
largely a contemporary phenomenon, but even the 
victims of the American educational system who 
wind up in MFA programs are exposed to a great deal of poetry in translation.

If you need a quick education in the poetry of 
the past couple of centuries seen from an 
international perspective you could do worse than 
Rothenberg and Joris' Poems for the Millenium, 
especially volume 1, and Rothenberg and Robinson's volume 3, the 19th century.

Best,

Mark

At 01:35 PM 12/19/2009, you wrote:
>Robin Hamilton wrote:
>>Right, Robin--I said French so you could avoid 
>>by devatasting counter-case by jumping on the 
>>error.?  (Actually, as I wrote French I thought 
>>I was wrong but didn't remember what language 
>>he wrote in and thought the French were the 
>>only poets on the Continent . . . after those early Italians.)
>>
>>--Bob
>>?
>>Yeah, I realised you were cutting me some slack 
>>when you didn't ask which specific line of the 
>>Duino Elegies I had in mind.?  So you're just 
>>saving it all up to land on me like a bag of coal when I mis-step.
>>?
>>So right, I'll see if I can track down just 
>>exactly which Elegy I had in mind.?  Though 
>>damned if I'll quote it in German, which I don't read.
>>?
>>Which of course assumes? I can find it and I'm 
>>not totally off-base with the Rilke connection.
>>?
>>C'mon, help, people -- surely there's someone 
>>on the list more au fait with Rilke than I (and 
>>Bob, if he's not simply concealing his 
>>knowledge, as he suggests, for some devious 
>>purpose) who can uncrumple this much-crumpled example of intertextuality.
>>?
>>Robin
>I hope no one finds the line for you, 
>Robin--'cause I doubt I could find a particular 
>line from Stevens to counter it with.?  I really 
>don't think Ashbery was consciously alluding to 
>any line.?  From what I've read about his 
>working procedure, he pretty much wings it, with 
>no special aim in mind when he begins. I just 
>intuitively feel the presence of Stevens in that 
>passage.?  Which doesn't mean Rilke might also 
>apply.?  Did either Stevens or Rilke know of the 
>other>?  I can't remember reading that Stevens knew much about Rilke.
>
>--Bob
>_______________________________________________
>New-Poetry mailing list
>New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry

Announcing The Whole Island: Six Decades of Cuban 
Poetry (University of California Press).
Forthcoming in November 2009.
http://go.ucpress.edu/WholeIsland


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From paul at tbhinc.com  Sat Dec 19 17:50:11 2009
From: paul at tbhinc.com (Paul C. Howell)
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 2009 17:50:11 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Rilke's French Poems: New-Poetry Digest, Vol 66,
	Issue 25
In-Reply-To: <200912191659.nBJGwwDP027401@wiz.cath.vt.edu>
References: <200912191659.nBJGwwDP027401@wiz.cath.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <0KUX007OH8RQ1IF0@VL-MH-MR003.ip.videotron.ca>

I like Rilke's French poems. Paul Valery liked them, too. I wonder 
about Stevens & Rilke? Stevens liked Hoelderlin but claimed to be 
only dilettanting.


t 11:59 AM 12/19/2009, you wrote:
>Date: Sat, 19 Dec 2009 12:03:47 -0600
>From: "Graham, David" <GrahamD at ripon.edu>
>Subject: [New-Poetry] Rilke in French
>To: <new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
>Message-ID: <3C3A5482-F020-44D9-A951-D1F7905D9A27 at ripon.edu>
>Content-Type: 
>text/plain;       format=flowed;  delsp=yes;      charset="us-ascii"
>
>
>Rilke did write in French as well as German, though the poems aren't
>nearly as well known.  I have never heard anyone make a case for his
>being a great poet in that language.




From junction at earthlink.net  Sat Dec 19 18:09:12 2009
From: junction at earthlink.net (Mark Weiss)
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 2009 18:09:12 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Rilke's French Poems: New-Poetry Digest, Vol
	66, Issue 25
In-Reply-To: <0KUX007OH8RQ1IF0@VL-MH-MR003.ip.videotron.ca>
References: <200912191659.nBJGwwDP027401@wiz.cath.vt.edu>
	<0KUX007OH8RQ1IF0@VL-MH-MR003.ip.videotron.ca>
Message-ID: <E1NM8QR-0003De-T1@elasmtp-banded.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

An ok poet ion French, but Valery didn't think him another Valery. 
For most of us his French poems are interesting for what they tell us 
about the German poet.

I don't know if Stevens read German. He couldn't have avoided the 
English translations, published in the US by Norton. Somebody must 
have written by now about Rilke's reception in English.

At 05:50 PM 12/19/2009, you wrote:
>I like Rilke's French poems. Paul Valery liked them, too. I wonder 
>about Stevens & Rilke? Stevens liked Hoelderlin but claimed to be 
>only dilettanting.
>
>
>t 11:59 AM 12/19/2009, you wrote:
>>Date: Sat, 19 Dec 2009 12:03:47 -0600
>>From: "Graham, David" <GrahamD at ripon.edu>
>>Subject: [New-Poetry] Rilke in French
>>To: <new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
>>Message-ID: <3C3A5482-F020-44D9-A951-D1F7905D9A27 at ripon.edu>
>>Content-Type: 
>>text/plain;       format=flowed;  delsp=yes;      charset="us-ascii"
>>
>>
>>Rilke did write in French as well as German, though the poems aren't
>>nearly as well known.  I have never heard anyone make a case for his
>>being a great poet in that language.
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>New-Poetry mailing list
>New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry

Announcing The Whole Island: Six Decades of Cuban Poetry (University 
of California Press).
Forthcoming in November 2009.
http://go.ucpress.edu/WholeIsland





From mandolin at mikesnider.org  Sat Dec 19 18:20:56 2009
From: mandolin at mikesnider.org (Michael Snider)
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 2009 18:20:56 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Sonnet: more of same
In-Reply-To: <E1NM5c0-0003Fa-Mu@elasmtp-spurfowl.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
References: <94A86D2A-A262-4D29-9AA0-5EB78DAE85AC@ripon.edu>
	<8CC4E1484296354-49A8-5B84@webmail-m027.sysops.aol.com>
	<56AE0A6FE7254F51B6E4BE8388033C74@RobinLaptopPC>
	<4B2CB40B.6080409@nut-n-but.net> <4B2D0E83.7040700@nut-n-but.net>
	<583F59AD3CCC4D72882B01B6D071878B@RobinLaptopPC>
	<4B2D1CFF.60208@nut-n-but.net>
	<E1NM5c0-0003Fa-Mu@elasmtp-spurfowl.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <6768ac830912191520u2e4cfdecw2457fdc6968911ba@mail.gmail.com>

The Table of Contents for Volume 3 of Poems for the Millenium looks
very good - but volume 2, "Post-War to Millenium" includes Diane Di
Prima, Tom Waits, and Ron Silliman but not Wilbur, Plath, Bishop,
Hecht, Hacker, Berryman, Cope, Justice, Larkin, Hall, Nemerov, or
James Wright, and in the "Continuities" section a poem from Stein but
no Frost. Hard to take seriously, though I admit I'd take di Prima and
Waits before any of the Language poets - and before Ashbery. That last
is probably a personal failing: many people whose opinions and
sympathies I respect love Ashbery, but he leaves me heavy bored.

Amazon's link to the contents of Volume 1 gives Volume 2 instead, so I
couldn't see that. None of the reviews online mentioned Frost: is he
there?

On Sat, Dec 19, 2009 at 3:08 PM, Mark Weiss <junction at earthlink.net> wrote:
> Rilke was being published in English by the beginning of the 30s. Unlikely
> that he was an influence on Stevens, tho it's difficult to imagine that
> Stevens was unaware of him. Stevens' reading was fairly wide-ranging, more
> the rule than otherwise with English-language poets since at least the later
> anglo-saxon period. Chaucer, remember, translated much of the Roman de la
> Rose, probably the single most influential poem of his era, Charles
> d'Orleans is a major poet in both languages, and much of the German epic
> poetry of the period was available in French translation. Almost every
> English-language poet worth reading has been conversant with both the canons
> and contemporaries from across Europe and sometimes beyond, and a fair
> number have written at least a bit in other languages, and not always Latin.
> Stevens' poetry, like Ashbery's, is unimaginable without French poetry from
> Baudelaire on.
>
> Monolingualism among English language poets is largely a contemporary
> phenomenon, but even the victims of the American educational system who wind
> up in MFA programs are exposed to a great deal of poetry in translation.
>
> If you need a quick education in the poetry of the past couple of centuries
> seen from an international perspective you could do worse than Rothenberg
> and Joris' Poems for the Millenium, especially volume 1, and Rothenberg and
> Robinson's volume 3, the 19th century.
>
> Best,
>
> Mark
>
> At 01:35 PM 12/19/2009, you wrote:
>
> Robin Hamilton wrote:
>
> Right, Robin--I said French so you could avoid by devatasting counter-case
> by jumping on the error.?? (Actually, as I wrote French I thought I was
> wrong but didn't remember what language he wrote in and thought the French
> were the only poets on the Continent . . . after those early Italians.)
>
> --Bob
> ?
> Yeah, I realised you were cutting me some slack when you didn't ask which
> specific line of the Duino Elegies I had in mind.?? So you're just saving it
> all up to land on me like a bag of coal when I mis-step.
> ?
> So right, I'll see if I can track down just exactly which Elegy I had in
> mind.?? Though damned if I'll quote it in German, which I don't read.
> ?
> Which of course assumes? I can find it and I'm not totally off-base with the
> Rilke connection.
> ?
> C'mon, help, people -- surely there's someone on the list more au fait with
> Rilke than I (and Bob, if he's not simply concealing his knowledge, as he
> suggests, for some devious purpose) who can uncrumple this much-crumpled
> example of intertextuality.
> ?
> Robin
>
> I hope no one finds the line for you, Robin--'cause I doubt I could find a
> particular line from Stevens to counter it with.?? I really don't think
> Ashbery was consciously alluding to any line.?? From what I've read about
> his working procedure, he pretty much wings it, with no special aim in mind
> when he begins. I just intuitively feel the presence of Stevens in that
> passage.?? Which doesn't mean Rilke might also apply.?? Did either Stevens
> or Rilke know of the other>?? I can't remember reading that Stevens knew
> much about Rilke.
>
> --Bob
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
> Announcing The Whole Island: Six Decades of Cuban Poetry (University of
> California Press).
> Forthcoming in November 2009.
> http://go.ucpress.edu/WholeIsland
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
>



From junction at earthlink.net  Sat Dec 19 18:38:03 2009
From: junction at earthlink.net (Mark Weiss)
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 2009 18:38:03 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Sonnet: more of same
In-Reply-To: <6768ac830912191520u2e4cfdecw2457fdc6968911ba@mail.gmail.co
 m>
References: <94A86D2A-A262-4D29-9AA0-5EB78DAE85AC@ripon.edu>
	<8CC4E1484296354-49A8-5B84@webmail-m027.sysops.aol.com>
	<56AE0A6FE7254F51B6E4BE8388033C74@RobinLaptopPC>
	<4B2CB40B.6080409@nut-n-but.net> <4B2D0E83.7040700@nut-n-but.net>
	<583F59AD3CCC4D72882B01B6D071878B@RobinLaptopPC>
	<4B2D1CFF.60208@nut-n-but.net>
	<E1NM5c0-0003Fa-Mu@elasmtp-spurfowl.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
	<6768ac830912191520u2e4cfdecw2457fdc6968911ba@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <E1NM8sO-0004Ca-7P@elasmtp-scoter.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

I can't put my hands on my copy of vol 1(roughly 
1900 to 1950), but I doubt that Frost is in it. 
It's an anthology of international modernism, not 
of all poets anyone takes seriously. Anthologies 
are always intellectual arguments. R and Js is 
that the major movement in the 20th century was 
the various modernisms and that if viewed as if 
borders didn't exist it's a very different 
phenomenon. One can disagree at any point, but 
it's an argument worth entertaining. Like any 
anthology, disqualifying it before engaging the 
argument because one or another poet is missing 
is kind of missing the point. All anthologies 
leave out more than they include. Learn from what's there.

Best,

Mark

At 06:20 PM 12/19/2009, you wrote:
>The Table of Contents for Volume 3 of Poems for the Millenium looks
>very good - but volume 2, "Post-War to Millenium" includes Diane Di
>Prima, Tom Waits, and Ron Silliman but not Wilbur, Plath, Bishop,
>Hecht, Hacker, Berryman, Cope, Justice, Larkin, Hall, Nemerov, or
>James Wright, and in the "Continuities" section a poem from Stein but
>no Frost. Hard to take seriously, though I admit I'd take di Prima and
>Waits before any of the Language poets - and before Ashbery. That last
>is probably a personal failing: many people whose opinions and
>sympathies I respect love Ashbery, but he leaves me heavy bored.
>
>Amazon's link to the contents of Volume 1 gives Volume 2 instead, so I
>couldn't see that. None of the reviews online mentioned Frost: is he
>there?
>
>On Sat, Dec 19, 2009 at 3:08 PM, Mark Weiss <junction at earthlink.net> wrote:
> > Rilke was being published in English by the beginning of the 30s. Unlikely
> > that he was an influence on Stevens, tho it's difficult to imagine that
> > Stevens was unaware of him. Stevens' reading was fairly wide-ranging, more
> > the rule than otherwise with English-language 
> poets since at least the later
> > anglo-saxon period. Chaucer, remember, translated much of the Roman de la
> > Rose, probably the single most influential poem of his era, Charles
> > d'Orleans is a major poet in both languages, and much of the German epic
> > poetry of the period was available in French translation. Almost every
> > English-language poet worth reading has been 
> conversant with both the canons
> > and contemporaries from across Europe and sometimes beyond, and a fair
> > number have written at least a bit in other 
> languages, and not always Latin.
> > Stevens' poetry, like Ashbery's, is unimaginable without French poetry from
> > Baudelaire on.
> >
> > Monolingualism among English language poets is largely a contemporary
> > phenomenon, but even the victims of the 
> American educational system who wind
> > up in MFA programs are exposed to a great deal of poetry in translation.
> >
> > If you need a quick education in the poetry of the past couple of centuries
> > seen from an international perspective you could do worse than Rothenberg
> > and Joris' Poems for the Millenium, especially volume 1, and Rothenberg and
> > Robinson's volume 3, the 19th century.
> >
> > Best,
> >
> > Mark
> >
> > At 01:35 PM 12/19/2009, you wrote:
> >
> > Robin Hamilton wrote:
> >
> > Right, Robin--I said French so you could avoid by devatasting counter-case
> > by jumping on the error.?  (Actually, as I wrote French I thought I was
> > wrong but didn't remember what language he wrote in and thought the French
> > were the only poets on the Continent . . . after those early Italians.)
> >
> > --Bob
> > ?
> > Yeah, I realised you were cutting me some slack when you didn't ask which
> > specific line of the Duino Elegies I had in 
> mind.?  So you're just saving it
> > all up to land on me like a bag of coal when I mis-step.
> > ?
> > So right, I'll see if I can track down just exactly which Elegy I had in
> > mind.?  Though damned if I'll quote it in German, which I don't read.
> > ?
> > Which of course assumes? I can find it and 
> I'm not totally off-base with the
> > Rilke connection.
> > ?
> > C'mon, help, people -- surely there's someone on the list more au fait with
> > Rilke than I (and Bob, if he's not simply concealing his knowledge, as he
> > suggests, for some devious purpose) who can uncrumple this much-crumpled
> > example of intertextuality.
> > ?
> > Robin
> >
> > I hope no one finds the line for you, Robin--'cause I doubt I could find a
> > particular line from Stevens to counter it with.?  I really don't think
> > Ashbery was consciously alluding to any line.?  From what I've read about
> > his working procedure, he pretty much wings it, with no special aim in mind
> > when he begins. I just intuitively feel the presence of Stevens in that
> > passage.?  Which doesn't mean Rilke might also apply.?  Did either Stevens
> > or Rilke know of the other>?  I can't remember reading that Stevens knew
> > much about Rilke.
> >
> > --Bob
> > _______________________________________________
> > New-Poetry mailing list
> > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
> >
> > Announcing The Whole Island: Six Decades of Cuban Poetry (University of
> > California Press).
> > Forthcoming in November 2009.
> > http://go.ucpress.edu/WholeIsland
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > New-Poetry mailing list
> > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
> >
> >
>
>_______________________________________________
>New-Poetry mailing list
>New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry

Announcing The Whole Island: Six Decades of Cuban 
Poetry (University of California Press).
Forthcoming in November 2009.
http://go.ucpress.edu/WholeIsland


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From robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com  Sat Dec 19 18:46:00 2009
From: robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com (Robin Hamilton)
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 2009 18:46:00 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Rilke's French Poems: New-Poetry Digest, Vol66,
	Issue 25
In-Reply-To: <E1NM8QR-0003De-T1@elasmtp-banded.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
References: <200912191659.nBJGwwDP027401@wiz.cath.vt.edu><0KUX007OH8RQ1IF0@VL-MH-MR003.ip.videotron.ca>
	<E1NM8QR-0003De-T1@elasmtp-banded.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <D1992EA42EA148069C4EBCBD76A9EA44@RobinLaptopPC>

Mark said:

> I don't know if Stevens read German. He couldn't have avoided the English 
> translations, published in the US by Norton. Somebody must have written by 
> now about Rilke's reception in English.

Well, at least up to the fifties and beyond, the standard translation of 
Rilke in the UK was the one by J.B.Leishman.  (I think working with someone. 
It may even have been Stephen Spender, which would go to explain a lot.)

Which just goes to show that sometimes people should stick to their 
day-jobs.  Leishman was a brilliant Donne and Marvell critic and scholar, 
but his Rilke translation came between me and Rilke for at least twenty 
years.  Makes you cringe, but.

So if that was what Stevens had to go on to access Rilke, he might not have 
bothered.  There are better now, but before 1950?  Who exactly was Norton 
using then, Mark?

Robin





From junction at earthlink.net  Sat Dec 19 18:46:55 2009
From: junction at earthlink.net (Mark Weiss)
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 2009 18:46:55 -0500
Subject: PS Re: [New-Poetry] Sonnet: more of same
In-Reply-To: <E1NM8sO-0004Ca-7P@elasmtp-scoter.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
References: <94A86D2A-A262-4D29-9AA0-5EB78DAE85AC@ripon.edu>
	<8CC4E1484296354-49A8-5B84@webmail-m027.sysops.aol.com>
	<56AE0A6FE7254F51B6E4BE8388033C74@RobinLaptopPC>
	<4B2CB40B.6080409@nut-n-but.net> <4B2D0E83.7040700@nut-n-but.net>
	<583F59AD3CCC4D72882B01B6D071878B@RobinLaptopPC>
	<4B2D1CFF.60208@nut-n-but.net>
	<E1NM5c0-0003Fa-Mu@elasmtp-spurfowl.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
	<6768ac830912191520u2e4cfdecw2457fdc6968911ba@mail.gmail.com>
	<E1NM8sO-0004Ca-7P@elasmtp-scoter.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <E1NM910-0004mi-0e@elasmtp-curtail.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

I'll add that most of those you note as missing 
are in no danger of neglect. I'm willing to bet, 
on the other hand, that you, like the rest of us, 
rarely read most of the poets in vol 1.

Note also, of course, that' it's not an anthology 
of American poetry. Given limitations of space, 
would you drop, say, Celan to make room for Wilbur?

06:38 PM 12/19/2009, you wrote:
>I can't put my hands on my copy of vol 1(roughly 
>1900 to 1950), but I doubt that Frost is in it. 
>It's an anthology of international modernism, 
>not of all poets anyone takes seriously. 
>Anthologies are always intellectual arguments. R 
>and Js is that the major movement in the 20th 
>century was the various modernisms and that if 
>viewed as if borders didn't exist it's a very 
>different phenomenon. One can disagree at any 
>point, but it's an argument worth entertaining. 
>Like any anthology, disqualifying it before 
>engaging the argument because one or another 
>poet is missing is kind of missing the point. 
>All anthologies leave out more than they include. Learn from what's there.
>
>Best,
>
>Mark
>
>At 06:20 PM 12/19/2009, you wrote:
>>The Table of Contents for Volume 3 of Poems for the Millenium looks
>>very good - but volume 2, "Post-War to Millenium" includes Diane Di
>>Prima, Tom Waits, and Ron Silliman but not Wilbur, Plath, Bishop,
>>Hecht, Hacker, Berryman, Cope, Justice, Larkin, Hall, Nemerov, or
>>James Wright, and in the "Continuities" section a poem from Stein but
>>no Frost. Hard to take seriously, though I admit I'd take di Prima and
>>Waits before any of the Language poets - and before Ashbery. That last
>>is probably a personal failing: many people whose opinions and
>>sympathies I respect love Ashbery, but he leaves me heavy bored.
>>
>>Amazon's link to the contents of Volume 1 gives Volume 2 instead, so I
>>couldn't see that. None of the reviews online mentioned Frost: is he
>>there?
>>
>>On Sat, Dec 19, 2009 at 3:08 PM, Mark Weiss <junction at earthlink.net> wrote:
>> > Rilke was being published in English by the beginning of the 30s. Unlikely
>> > that he was an influence on Stevens, tho it's difficult to imagine that
>> > Stevens was unaware of him. Stevens' reading was fairly wide-ranging, more
>> > the rule than otherwise with 
>> English-language poets since at least the later
>> > anglo-saxon period. Chaucer, remember, translated much of the Roman de la
>> > Rose, probably the single most influential poem of his era, Charles
>> > d'Orleans is a major poet in both languages, and much of the German epic
>> > poetry of the period was available in French translation. Almost every
>> > English-language poet worth reading has been 
>> conversant with both the canons
>> > and contemporaries from across Europe and sometimes beyond, and a fair
>> > number have written at least a bit in other 
>> languages, and not always Latin.
>> > Stevens' poetry, like Ashbery's, is 
>> unimaginable without French poetry from
>> > Baudelaire on.
>> >
>> > Monolingualism among English language poets is largely a contemporary
>> > phenomenon, but even the victims of the 
>> American educational system who wind
>> > up in MFA programs are exposed to a great deal of poetry in translation.
>> >
>> > If you need a quick education in the poetry 
>> of the past couple of centuries
>> > seen from an international perspective you could do worse than Rothenberg
>> > and Joris' Poems for the Millenium, 
>> especially volume 1, and Rothenberg and
>> > Robinson's volume 3, the 19th century.
>> >
>> > Best,
>> >
>> > Mark
>> >
>> > At 01:35 PM 12/19/2009, you wrote:
>> >
>> > Robin Hamilton wrote:
>> >
>> > Right, Robin--I said French so you could avoid by devatasting counter-case
>> > by jumping on the error.?  (Actually, as I wrote French I thought I was
>> > wrong but didn't remember what language he wrote in and thought the French
>> > were the only poets on the Continent . . . after those early Italians.)
>> >
>> > --Bob
>> > ?
>> > Yeah, I realised you were cutting me some slack when you didn't ask which
>> > specific line of the Duino Elegies I had in 
>> mind.?  So you're just saving it
>> > all up to land on me like a bag of coal when I mis-step.
>> > ?
>> > So right, I'll see if I can track down just exactly which Elegy I had in
>> > mind.?  Though damned if I'll quote it in German, which I don't read.
>> > ?
>> > Which of course assumes? I can find it and 
>> I'm not totally off-base with the
>> > Rilke connection.
>> > ?
>> > C'mon, help, people -- surely there's 
>> someone on the list more au fait with
>> > Rilke than I (and Bob, if he's not simply concealing his knowledge, as he
>> > suggests, for some devious purpose) who can uncrumple this much-crumpled
>> > example of intertextuality.
>> > ?
>> > Robin
>> >
>> > I hope no one finds the line for you, Robin--'cause I doubt I could find a
>> > particular line from Stevens to counter it with.?  I really don't think
>> > Ashbery was consciously alluding to any line.?  From what I've read about
>> > his working procedure, he pretty much wings 
>> it, with no special aim in mind
>> > when he begins. I just intuitively feel the presence of Stevens in that
>> > passage.?  Which doesn't mean Rilke might also apply.?  Did either Stevens
>> > or Rilke know of the other>?  I can't remember reading that Stevens knew
>> > much about Rilke.
>> >
>> > --Bob
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > New-Poetry mailing list
>> > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>> > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>> >
>> > Announcing The Whole Island: Six Decades of Cuban Poetry (University of
>> > California Press).
>> > Forthcoming in November 2009.
>> > http://go.ucpress.edu/WholeIsland
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > New-Poetry mailing list
>> > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>> > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>> >
>> >
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>New-Poetry mailing list
>>New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>>http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
>Announcing The Whole Island: Six Decades of 
>Cuban Poetry (University of California Press).
>Forthcoming in November 2009.
>http://go.ucpress.edu/WholeIsland
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>New-Poetry mailing list
>New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry

Announcing The Whole Island: Six Decades of Cuban 
Poetry (University of California Press).
Forthcoming in November 2009.
http://go.ucpress.edu/WholeIsland






From junction at earthlink.net  Sat Dec 19 18:54:44 2009
From: junction at earthlink.net (Mark Weiss)
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 2009 18:54:44 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Rilke's French Poems: New-Poetry Digest,
	Vol66, Issue 25
In-Reply-To: <D1992EA42EA148069C4EBCBD76A9EA44@RobinLaptopPC>
References: <200912191659.nBJGwwDP027401@wiz.cath.vt.edu>
	<0KUX007OH8RQ1IF0@VL-MH-MR003.ip.videotron.ca>
	<E1NM8QR-0003De-T1@elasmtp-banded.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
	<D1992EA42EA148069C4EBCBD76A9EA44@RobinLaptopPC>
Message-ID: <E1NM98V-0000Vd-Ft@elasmtp-mealy.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

Right, Spender was cotranslator. Forgetting issues of quality for the 
moment, his name would have been good publicity. The point is that 
Rilke had become a name to be reckoned with, whether or not adequate 
tools were available.

Stevens was a reader of translations, and even tried to dope out 
Lezama (no easy matter) with his very limited Spanish. He carried on 
a correspondence with both Lezama and Feo, who translated him (and 
several other US poets, including Williams) for Origenes.

Sackville-West did the Duino Elegies for Hogarth Press in 1931, M.D. 
Herter was Norton's man.

At 06:46 PM 12/19/2009, you wrote:
>Mark said:
>
>>I don't know if Stevens read German. He couldn't have avoided the 
>>English translations, published in the US by Norton. Somebody must 
>>have written by now about Rilke's reception in English.
>
>Well, at least up to the fifties and beyond, the standard 
>translation of Rilke in the UK was the one by J.B.Leishman.  (I 
>think working with someone. It may even have been Stephen Spender, 
>which would go to explain a lot.)
>
>Which just goes to show that sometimes people should stick to their 
>day-jobs.  Leishman was a brilliant Donne and Marvell critic and 
>scholar, but his Rilke translation came between me and Rilke for at 
>least twenty years.  Makes you cringe, but.
>
>So if that was what Stevens had to go on to access Rilke, he might 
>not have bothered.  There are better now, but before 1950?  Who 
>exactly was Norton using then, Mark?
>
>Robin
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>New-Poetry mailing list
>New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry

Announcing The Whole Island: Six Decades of Cuban Poetry (University 
of California Press).
Forthcoming in November 2009.
http://go.ucpress.edu/WholeIsland





From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net  Sat Dec 19 19:18:05 2009
From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman)
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 2009 19:18:05 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Sonnet: more of same
In-Reply-To: <6768ac830912191520u2e4cfdecw2457fdc6968911ba@mail.gmail.com>
References: <94A86D2A-A262-4D29-9AA0-5EB78DAE85AC@ripon.edu><8CC4E1484296354-49A8-5B84@webmail-m027.sysops.aol.com><56AE0A6FE7254
	F51B6E4BE8388033C74@RobinLaptopPC><4B2CB40B.6080409@nut-n-but.net>
	<4B2D0E83.7040700@nut-n-but.net><583F59AD3CCC4D72882B01B6D071878B@RobinLaptopPC><4B2D1CFF.60208@nut-n-but.net><E1NM5c0-0003Fa-
	Mu@elasmtp-spurfowl.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
	<6768ac830912191520u2e4cfdecw2457fdc6968911ba@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4B2D6D3D.6050500@nut-n-but.net>

Michael Snider wrote:
> The Table of Contents for Volume 3 of Poems for the Millenium looks
> very good - but volume 2, "Post-War to Millenium" includes Diane Di
> Prima, Tom Waits, and Ron Silliman but not Wilbur, Plath, Bishop,
> Hecht, Hacker, Berryman, Cope, Justice, Larkin, Hall, Nemerov, or
> James Wright, and in the "Continuities" section a poem from Stein but
> no Frost. Hard to take seriously, though I admit I'd take di Prima and
> Waits before any of the Language poets - and before Ashbery. That last
> is probably a personal failing: many people whose opinions and
> sympathies I respect love Ashbery, but he leaves me heavy bored.
>
> Amazon's link to the contents of Volume 1 gives Volume 2 instead, so I
> couldn't see that. None of the reviews online mentioned Frost: is he
> there?
Volume 2 scants visual poetry but does represent it.  Because Jerome 
Rothenberg and Karl Young go back.  Neither Volume 1 or 2 has Frost.  I 
don't have Volume 3--doesn't seem likely it's my kind of anthology.  The 
first two are probably the best at representing the full range of 
contemporary poetry around, but I can't say I think much of them.  
Cummings is in Volume 1--as e. e. cummings, as those whose knowledge of 
him is superficial have it.  Two poems of his, with a remarkably obtuse 
summary of what he was up to.  Oh, well, I'm for such descriptive 
summaries in anthologies, however bad. 

Stevens and Stein are in both volumes.  Roethke, the third of the poets 
I consider tied for the position of best American poet before 
(approximately) the second half of the twentieth century) isn't in 
either.  As always, though, my problem is not with leaving out certain 
poets, but leaving out (of close to leaving out) whole schools of 
poetry--like the neo-formalists (and I've been saying they've been 
getting a raw deal for forty years--as have composers of haiku, who are 
some of our best poets, but there are no haiku in the Rothenberg/Joris 
anthology.  Hmmm, no Ginsberg in either 1 or 2.  My verdict is that it's 
an excellent browser's anthology but far from definitive about the 
poetry of the period it covers.

--Bob



From junction at earthlink.net  Sat Dec 19 19:50:38 2009
From: junction at earthlink.net (Mark Weiss)
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 2009 19:50:38 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Sonnet: more of same
In-Reply-To: <4B2D6D3D.6050500@nut-n-but.net>
References: <94A86D2A-A262-4D29-9AA0-5EB78DAE85AC@ripon.edu>
	<8CC4E1484296354-49A8-5B84@webmail-m027.sysops.aol.com>
	<56AE0A6FE7254 F51B6E4BE8388033C74@RobinLaptopPC>
	<4B2CB40B.6080409@nut-n-but.net> <4B2D0E83.7040700@nut-n-but.net>
	<583F59AD3CCC4D72882B01B6D071878B@RobinLaptopPC>
	<4B2D1CFF.60208@nut-n-but.net>
	<E1NM5c0-0003Fa- Mu@elasmtp-spurfowl.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
	<6768ac830912191520u2e4cfdecw2457fdc6968911ba@mail.gmail.com>
	<4B2D6D3D.6050500@nut-n-but.net>
Message-ID: <E1NMA0b-0000nI-Md@elasmtp-spurfowl.atl.sa.earthlink.net>


>Volume 2 scants visual poetry but does represent it.  Because Jerome 
>Rothenberg and Karl Young go back.


Why do you insist on scanting people you disagree with? Jerry's 
interest in visual poetry has a lot more to do with Merz than with 
Karl Young and goes back, to my knowledge, over 50 years.

>Neither Volume 1 or 2 has Frost.  I don't have Volume 3--doesn't 
>seem likely it's my kind of anthology.  The first two are probably 
>the best at representing the full range of contemporary poetry 
>around, but I can't say I think much of them.
>Cummings is in Volume 1--as e. e. cummings, as those whose knowledge 
>of him is superficial have it.


Again, the name is spelled as Cummings did in his major publications. 
Is there another rational choice? Do you assume they just didn't know 
any better?

>Two poems of his, with a remarkably obtuse summary of what he was up 
>to.  Oh, well, I'm for such descriptive summaries in anthologies, however bad.
>Stevens and Stein are in both volumes.  Roethke, the third of the 
>poets I consider tied for the position of best American poet before 
>(approximately) the second half of the twentieth century) isn't in 
>either.  As always, though, my problem is not with leaving out 
>certain poets, but leaving out (of close to leaving out) whole 
>schools of poetry--like the neo-formalists (and I've been saying 
>they've been getting a raw deal for forty years--as have composers 
>of haiku, who are some of our best poets, but there are no haiku in 
>the Rothenberg/Joris anthology.

It's an anthology that stakes out a position within a period, not the 
period as a whole--that's why schools that are outside its scope aren't there.


>Hmmm, no Ginsberg in either 1 or 2.  My verdict is that it's an 
>excellent browser's anthology but far from definitive about the 
>poetry of the period it covers.

Ginsberg's in vol 2.





>--Bob
>
>_______________________________________________
>New-Poetry mailing list
>New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry

Announcing The Whole Island: Six Decades of Cuban Poetry (University 
of California Press).
Forthcoming in November 2009.
http://go.ucpress.edu/WholeIsland





From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net  Sat Dec 19 21:42:14 2009
From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman)
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 2009 21:42:14 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Sonnet: more of same
In-Reply-To: <E1NMA0b-0000nI-Md@elasmtp-spurfowl.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
References: <94A86D2A-A262-4D29-9AA0-5EB78DAE85AC@ripon.edu><8CC4E1484296354-49A8-5B84@webmail-m027.sysops.aol.com><56AE0A6FE7254
	F51B6E4BE8388033C74@RobinLaptopPC><4B2CB40B.6080409@nut-n-but.net>
	<4B2D0E83.7040700@nut-n-but.net><583F59AD3CCC4D72882B01B6D071878B@RobinLaptopPC><4B2D1CFF.60208@nut-n-but.net><E1NM5c0-0003Fa-
	Mu@elasmtp-spurfowl.atl.sa.earthlink.net><6768ac830912191520u2e4cfdecw2457fdc6968911ba@mail.gmail.com><4B2D6D3D.6050500@nut-n-
	but.net> <E1NMA0b-0000nI-Md@elasmtp-spurfowl.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <4B2D8F06.50502@nut-n-but.net>

Mark Weiss wrote:
>
>> Volume 2 scants visual poetry but does represent it.  Because Jerome 
>> Rothenberg and Karl Young go back.
>
>
> Why do you insist on scanting people you disagree with? Jerry's 
> interest in visual poetry has a lot more to do with Merz than with 
> Karl Young
That may be his problem.

> and goes back, to my knowledge, over 50 years.
>
I'm a creep.  Your pal knows very little about visual poetry, however 
far back his "interest" in it goes.
>> Neither Volume 1 or 2 has Frost.  I don't have Volume 3--doesn't seem 
>> likely it's my kind of anthology.  The first two are probably the 
>> best at representing the full range of contemporary poetry around, 
>> but I can't say I think much of them.
>> Cummings is in Volume 1--as e. e. cummings, as those whose knowledge 
>> of him is superficial have it.
>
>
> Again, the name is spelled as Cummings did in his major publications.
No, as some of his publishers spelled it, being cute.

> Is there another rational choice? Do you assume they just didn't know 
> any better?
Somebody didn't know any better.  It's capitalized.  Read Norman 
Friedman on it.  Or just look at Cummings's signature on the front cover 
of /Poems 1923 - 1954/ (the title page of which spells his name all in 
caps).
>
>> Two poems of his, with a remarkably obtuse summary of what he was up 
>> to.  Oh, well, I'm for such descriptive summaries in anthologies, 
>> however bad.

 >Stevens and Stein are in both volumes.  Roethke, the third of the 
poets I >consider tied for the position of best American poet before 
(approximately) >the second half of the twentieth century)

Tied with Stevens and Cummings, not Stevens and Stein

 >isn't in either.  As always, though, my problem is not with leaving 
out certain >poets, but leaving out (of close to leaving out) whole 
schools of poetry--like >the neo-formalists (and I've been saying 
they've been getting a raw deal for >forty years--as have composers of 
haiku, who are some of our best poets, >but there are no haiku in the 
Rothenberg/Joris anthology.
>
> It's an anthology that stakes out a position within a period, not the 
> period as a whole--that's why schools that are outside its scope 
> aren't there.
Fine.  I'm complaining about its scope, then.
>
>
>> Hmmm, no Ginsberg in either 1 or 2.  My verdict is that it's an 
>> excellent browser's anthology but far from definitive about the 
>> poetry.,5 of the period it covers.
>
> Ginsberg's in vol 2.
You're right, somehow I missed his name.  I would have expected him to 
be there.

--Bob G.
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From jeff.newberry at gmail.com  Sat Dec 19 21:42:36 2009
From: jeff.newberry at gmail.com (Jeff Newberry)
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 2009 21:42:36 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Sonnet: more of same
In-Reply-To: <4B2BC305.7090803@nut-n-but.net>
References: <94A86D2A-A262-4D29-9AA0-5EB78DAE85AC@ripon.edu>
	<8CC4E1484296354-49A8-5B84@webmail-m027.sysops.aol.com>
	<4B2BC305.7090803@nut-n-but.net>
Message-ID: <731bb17a0912191842v7160200bya755e85081c23d27@mail.gmail.com>

Once again, Bob, you prove yourself incapable of distinguishing between fact
& opinion.

I know that you think that you're being cute, but your insistence on
bullying others with your simplistic view of art borders on the
pathological.

Jeff Newberry

On Fri, Dec 18, 2009 at 12:59 PM, Bob Grumman <bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net>wrote:

>  jforjames at aol.com wrote:
>
> Reminds me of James Tate's poetry...particularly where it ends.
> Finnegan
>
>
>  -----Original Message-----
> From: David Graham <GrahamD at ripon.edu> <GrahamD at ripon.edu>
> To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu &amp; Views <new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu><new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
> Sent: Fri, Dec 18, 2009 11:00 am
> Subject: [New-Poetry] Sonnet: more of same
>
>  *Sonnet: More of Same*
>
>  Try to avoid the pattern that has been avoided,
> the avoidance pattern. It?s not as easy as it looks:
> The herringbone is floating eagerly up
> from the herring to become parquet. Or whatever suits it.
> New fractals clamor to be identical
> to their sisters. Half of them succeed. The others
> go on to be Proven?al floral prints some sleepy but ingenious
> weaver created halfway through the eighteenth century,
> and they never came to life until now.
>
>  It?s like practicing a scale: at once different and never the  same.
> Ask not why we do these things. Ask why we find them meaningful.
> Ask the cuckoo transfixed in mid-flight
> between the pagoda and the hermit?s rococo cave. He may tell you.
>
>  --John Ashbery.  *Where Shall I Wander?*  Ecco Press, 2005.
>
>   The last two lines are pure Stevens.  The rest are tripe.
>
> Fact, Hal and Jeff.
>
> --Der Factmeister
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
>


-- 
You cannot tell people what to do, you can only tell them parables; and that
is what art really is, particular stories of particular people and
experience, from which each according to his own immediate and peculiar
needs may draw his own conclusion. --W.H. Auden
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From jjeffreymail at yahoo.com  Sat Dec 19 22:03:11 2009
From: jjeffreymail at yahoo.com (John Jeffrey)
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 2009 19:03:11 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [New-Poetry] Sonnet: more of same
Message-ID: <696030.32666.qm@web54107.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

Oh, I agree with Bob here.  How can it be called an "anthology" if it doesn't even have my pancake poetry in it?  I've been working in Panpo--a term I coined--for 30 years.  And then there's Bailey Froelich, who makes noises with his hands.  He calls it poetry, and who am I to say it's not poetry.  If he calls it poetry, it MUST be poetry right?  I don't see his name in either table of contents.  And what about the single letter school of poets?  Have you read Soo Ling's poem "Q"?  I've included it below.  Or what of the poets who throw paint balloons at cars?  (I tend to favor the "Highway Paint Poets" over the "Backroads Paint Poets."  Much more exciting.)

Oh sure, you may not have even heard of these schools, but they say it's poetry so therefore it has to be included in any good anthology.  That appears to be the rule here, right?  No rules other than a claim of "poetry."  And who cares if no one cares?  And who cares if there's not an actual word in sight.  (How limited they would need "words."  Phsaw!)  Poetry doesn't need words!  Does music need sound?  Does pen and ink need pen and ink?  Does cooking need food?  Bah!

Johnny Panpo

---------------------
Q
   by Soo Ling

q


      
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From jbalizsprince at googlemail.com  Sat Dec 19 22:22:24 2009
From: jbalizsprince at googlemail.com (Judy Prince)
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 2009 22:22:24 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Sonnet: more of same
In-Reply-To: <696030.32666.qm@web54107.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <696030.32666.qm@web54107.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <7db1d01b0912191922g1f41ed5eif0a7433d3e8ea751@mail.gmail.com>

John,

I could cotton to Panpo, but honestly prefer Harold's House of Toast.

Best,

Judy



2009/12/19 John Jeffrey <jjeffreymail at yahoo.com>

> Oh, I agree with Bob here.  How can it be called an "anthology" if it
> doesn't even have my pancake poetry in it?  I've been working in Panpo--a
> term I coined--for 30 years.  And then there's Bailey Froelich, who makes
> noises with his hands.  He calls it poetry, and who am I to say it's not
> poetry.  If he calls it poetry, it MUST be poetry right?  I don't see his
> name in either table of contents.  And what about the single letter school
> of poets?  Have you read Soo Ling's poem "Q"?  I've included it below.  Or
> what of the poets who throw paint balloons at cars?  (I tend to favor the
> "Highway Paint Poets" over the "Backroads Paint Poets."  Much more
> exciting.)
>
> Oh sure, you may not have even heard of these schools, but they say it's
> poetry so therefore it has to be included in any good anthology.  That
> appears to be the rule here, right?  No rules other than a claim of
> "poetry."  And who cares if no one cares?  And who cares if there's not an
> actual word in sight.  (How limited they would need "words."  Phsaw!)
> Poetry doesn't need words!  Does music need sound?  Does pen and ink need
> pen and ink?  Does cooking need food?  Bah!
>
> Johnny Panpo
>
> ---------------------
> Q
>    by Soo Ling
>
> q
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
>
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From mandolin at mikesnider.org  Sat Dec 19 22:28:32 2009
From: mandolin at mikesnider.org (Michael Snider)
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 2009 22:28:32 -0500
Subject: PS Re: [New-Poetry] Sonnet: more of same
In-Reply-To: <E1NM910-0004mi-0e@elasmtp-curtail.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
References: <94A86D2A-A262-4D29-9AA0-5EB78DAE85AC@ripon.edu>
	<56AE0A6FE7254F51B6E4BE8388033C74@RobinLaptopPC>
	<4B2CB40B.6080409@nut-n-but.net> <4B2D0E83.7040700@nut-n-but.net>
	<583F59AD3CCC4D72882B01B6D071878B@RobinLaptopPC>
	<4B2D1CFF.60208@nut-n-but.net>
	<E1NM5c0-0003Fa-Mu@elasmtp-spurfowl.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
	<6768ac830912191520u2e4cfdecw2457fdc6968911ba@mail.gmail.com>
	<E1NM8sO-0004Ca-7P@elasmtp-scoter.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
	<E1NM910-0004mi-0e@elasmtp-curtail.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <6768ac830912191928p2371ca3fnd78ed97d9cc97e57@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Dec 19, 2009 at 6:46 PM, Mark Weiss <junction at earthlink.net> wrote:
> I'll add that most of those you note as missing are in no danger of neglect.
> I'm willing to bet, on the other hand, that you, like the rest of us, rarely
> read most of the poets in vol 1.
>
> Note also, of course, that' it's not an anthology of American poetry. Given
> limitations of space, would you drop, say, Celan to make room for Wilbur?


Nope - I have no basis for judging poets in any languages other than
English or Spanish ( in which I was once fairly fluent), but there are
a number of American poets I'd drop for Wilbur and the others I
mentioned - unless, as you seem to imply, one of their purposes was to
preserve the work of good poets in danger of neglect.


From jjeffreymail at yahoo.com  Sat Dec 19 22:30:09 2009
From: jjeffreymail at yahoo.com (John Jeffrey)
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 2009 19:30:09 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [New-Poetry] Sonnet: more of same
In-Reply-To: <7db1d01b0912191922g1f41ed5eif0a7433d3e8ea751@mail.gmail.com>
References: <696030.32666.qm@web54107.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
	<7db1d01b0912191922g1f41ed5eif0a7433d3e8ea751@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <144913.92919.qm@web54104.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

Harold's a hack.  He's been ripping off my stuff ever since I met him at the Easy Bake Oven Poetry Festival back in '73.





________________________________
From: Judy Prince <jbalizsprince at googlemail.com>
To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views <new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
Sent: Sat, December 19, 2009 10:22:24 PM
Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Sonnet: more of same

John, 

I could cotton to Panpo, but honestly prefer Harold's House of Toast.

Best,

Judy





2009/12/19 John Jeffrey <jjeffreymail at yahoo.com>

Oh, I agree with Bob here.  How can it be called an "anthology" if it doesn't even have my pancake poetry in it?  I've been working in Panpo--a term I coined--for 30 years.  And then there's Bailey Froelich, who makes noises with his hands.  He calls it poetry, and who am I to say it's not poetry.  If he calls it poetry, it MUST be poetry right?  I don't see his name in either table of contents.  And what about the single letter school of poets?  Have you read Soo Ling's poem "Q"?  I've included it below.  Or what of the poets who throw paint balloons at cars?  (I tend to favor the "Highway
> Paint Poets" over the "Backroads Paint Poets."  Much more exciting.)
>
>Oh sure, you may not have even heard of these schools, but they say it's poetry so therefore it has to be included in any good anthology.  That appears to be the rule here, right?  No rules other than a claim of "poetry."  And who cares if no one cares?  And who cares if there's not an actual word in sight.  (How limited they would need "words."  Phsaw!)  Poetry doesn't need words!  Does music need sound?  Does pen and ink need pen and ink?  Does cooking need food?  Bah!
>
>Johnny Panpo
>
>---------------------
>Q
>   by Soo Ling
>
>q
>
>
>
> 
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>>New-Poetry mailing list
>New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
>



      
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From jbalizsprince at googlemail.com  Sat Dec 19 22:45:03 2009
From: jbalizsprince at googlemail.com (Judy Prince)
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 2009 22:45:03 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Sonnet: more of same
In-Reply-To: <144913.92919.qm@web54104.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <696030.32666.qm@web54107.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
	<7db1d01b0912191922g1f41ed5eif0a7433d3e8ea751@mail.gmail.com>
	<144913.92919.qm@web54104.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <7db1d01b0912191945v58d98c4eq39e0f597ce470dd2@mail.gmail.com>

Reason why you didnae win the competition, John, is that it was Easy Bake
Oven Poultry Festival, acronymically known as EBOP Bestial.  Sadly, from '73
on they dumbed it down.

Judy


2009/12/19 John Jeffrey <jjeffreymail at yahoo.com>

> Harold's a hack.  He's been ripping off my stuff ever since I met him at
> the Easy Bake Oven Poetry Festival back in '73.
>
>
> ------------------------------
> *From:* Judy Prince <jbalizsprince at googlemail.com>
> *To:* NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views <
> new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
> *Sent:* Sat, December 19, 2009 10:22:24 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [New-Poetry] Sonnet: more of same
>
> John,
>
> I could cotton to Panpo, but honestly prefer Harold's House of Toast.
>
> Best,
>
> Judy
>
>
>
> 2009/12/19 John Jeffrey <jjeffreymail at yahoo.com>
>
>> Oh, I agree with Bob here.  How can it be called an "anthology" if it
>> doesn't even have my pancake poetry in it?  I've been working in Panpo--a
>> term I coined--for 30 years.  And then there's Bailey Froelich, who makes
>> noises with his hands.  He calls it poetry, and who am I to say it's not
>> poetry.  If he calls it poetry, it MUST be poetry right?  I don't see his
>> name in either table of contents.  And what about the single letter school
>> of poets?  Have you read Soo Ling's poem "Q"?  I've included it below.  Or
>> what of the poets who throw paint balloons at cars?  (I tend to favor the
>> "Highway Paint Poets" over the "Backroads Paint Poets."  Much more
>> exciting.)
>>
>> Oh sure, you may not have even heard of these schools, but they say it's
>> poetry so therefore it has to be included in any good anthology.  That
>> appears to be the rule here, right?  No rules other than a claim of
>> "poetry."  And who cares if no one cares?  And who cares if there's not an
>> actual word in sight.  (How limited they would need "words."  Phsaw!)
>> Poetry doesn't need words!  Does music need sound?  Does pen and ink need
>> pen and ink?  Does cooking need food?  Bah!
>>
>> Johnny Panpo
>>
>> ---------------------
>> Q
>>    by Soo Ling
>>
>> q
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> New-Poetry mailing list
>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>>
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
>
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From rsgwynn1 at cs.com  Sat Dec 19 22:48:22 2009
From: rsgwynn1 at cs.com (rsgwynn1 at cs.com)
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 2009 22:48:22 EST
Subject: [New-Poetry] Sonnet: more of same
Message-ID: <365a.6efd18ad.385ef886@cs.com>

In a message dated 12/19/2009 9:03:28 PM Central Standard Time, 
jjeffreymail at yahoo.com writes: 
> 
> 
> Oh, I agree with Bob here.  How can it be called an "anthology" if it 
> doesn't even have my pancake poetry in it?  I've been working in Panpo--a term 
> I coined--for 30 years.  And then there's Bailey Froelich, who makes noises 
> with his hands.  He calls it poetry, and who am I to say it's not poetry.  
> If he calls it poetry, it MUST be poetry right?  I don't see his name in 
> either table of contents.  And what about the single letter school of poets? 
>  Have you read Soo Ling's poem "Q"?  I've included it below.  Or what of 
> the poets who throw paint balloons at cars?  (I tend to favor the "Highway 
> Paint Poets" over the "Backroads Paint Poets."  Much more exciting.)
> 
> Oh sure, you may not have even heard of these schools, but they say it's 
> poetry so therefore it has to be included in any good anthology.  That 
> appears to be the rule here, right?  No rules other than a claim of "poetry."  
> And who cares if no one cares?  And who cares if there's not an actual word 
> in sight.  (How limited they would need "words."  Phsaw!)  Poetry doesn't 
> need words!  Does music need sound?  Does pen and ink need pen and ink?  
> Does cooking need food?  Bah!
> 
> Johnny Panpo
> 
> ---------------------
> Q
>    by Soo Ling
> 
> q
> 
> 
Soo Ling's "Q" was perhaps influential in establishing the "single-letter" 
school of poetry, but she was soon eclipsed by followers who went far beyond 
her initial efforts.  Take, for example, "QQ" by Franz Gratz:

QQ

q 
q
q
q
q
q
q
q?

Yet q
q
q

q
q
q!

The sonnet-like structure of this poem has been much commented on. There is 
an ineffable quality here that surpasses most understanding, including that 
of Helen Vendler.

This poem, with its unavoidable obeisance to traditional, received forms, 
soon stimulated the following, by Mania Hoya, who claimed to have established 
a "neo-formalist single-letter school":

qQqQqQqQ 
qQqQqQqQ 
qQqQqQqQ 
qQqQqQqQ 
qQqQqQqQ 
qQqQqQqQ 
qQqQqQqQ 

But this kind of regularity was challenged by the "visual" school, which 
attempted to render the subject spatially, without regard to language: 
English, French, German, Spanish, Italian, or Esperanto.  Here is a recent poem by 
Pam Flannel:

Qwat?                  
                        Que?
           Cue?                                  Quesca?

                           Qui?
Quero?
                                                  Q?
                   Adonde?          
       Queez?               
                                Quanto?
                 Q'est-ce cest?
                                                             Q
                                                                         Q  
        
                                                                  Q

This, I think, pretty much says it all.
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From barry.spacks at verizon.net  Sun Dec 20 02:28:51 2009
From: barry.spacks at verizon.net (Barry Spacks)
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 2009 23:28:51 -0800
Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: A CALL-OUT TO JOHN JEFFREY
In-Reply-To: <200912200126.nBK1QhDO032368@wiz.cath.vt.edu>
References: <200912200126.nBK1QhDO032368@wiz.cath.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <AA211EA0-B5BD-48A2-A364-49AD2E9C1447@verizon.net>


On Dec 19, 2009, at 5:26 PM, John Jeffrey wrote:

>   Poetry doesn't need words!  Does music need sound?  Does pen and  
> ink need pen and ink?  Does cooking need food?  Bah!
>
> Johnny Panpo
>
> ---------------------
> Q
>   by Soo Ling
***********************
>
   Thanks, John, for the heart-breaking poem by Soo Ling, but  
unfortunately
   we find nothing new there, letters have been used in dull-centered  
poetry
   way back from cuneiform days.  Sad that you can't yet send your  
pancake work through
   e-mail for the kudos it likely deserves,  but surely somebody's  
working on that.

   A comfort to hear from another raging a bit at wit's end about the  
promotion
   of the inanely arbitrary to the tragically neglected.  At least the  
Dadas didn't whine
   about their exclusion from Nobel prize-dom, their brilliant spirit  
seems so innocent now in
   contrast to the rants of follow-up (so-called) avantists spinning  
poetry dizzy among us.

   You, John, in your final remarks make it clear that nothing needs  
nothing.

   Wait -- Nothing! There's a concept. All arts could use it, a fresh  
device, not a letter in sight.

   But dang if the dulls in charge of the asylum wouldn't neglect such  
work as well. Life just ain't just.

   One of the nice effects of working with Nothing as yer medium is  
how transferable it is. Here below,
   for example, done up entirely in organically revolutionary  
Nothingness, is my "Ode to Soo LIng's Great Poem Q"
   (can't be seen, but hey, guys, stuff that can be seen is by  
definition dullstream).





  calmer now,

B

  
  


From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net  Sun Dec 20 06:27:43 2009
From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman)
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 2009 06:27:43 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Sonnet: more of same
In-Reply-To: <E1NM8sO-0004Ca-7P@elasmtp-scoter.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
References: <94A86D2A-A262-4D29-9AA0-5EB78DAE85AC@ripon.edu><8CC4E1484296354-49A8-5B84@webmail-m027.sysops.aol.com><56AE0A6FE7254
	F51B6E4BE8388033C74@RobinLaptopPC><4B2CB40B.6080409@nut-n-but.net>
	<4B2D0E83.7040700@nut-n-but.net><583F59AD3CCC4D72882B01B6D071878B@RobinLaptopPC><4B2D1CFF.60208@nut-n-but.net><E1NM5c0-0003Fa-
	Mu@elasmtp-spurfowl.atl.sa.earthlink.net><6768ac830912191520u2e4cfdecw2457fdc6968911ba@mail.gmail.com>
	<E1NM8sO-0004Ca-7P@elasmtp-scoter.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <4B2E0A2F.5070100@nut-n-but.net>

Mark Weiss wrote:
> I can't put my hands on my copy of vol 1(roughly 1900 to 1950), but I 
> doubt that Frost is in it. It's an anthology of international 
> modernism, not of all poets anyone takes seriously. Anthologies are 
> always intellectual arguments. R and Js is that the major movement in 
> the 20th century was the various modernisms and that if viewed as if 
> borders didn't exist it's a very different phenomenon. One can 
> disagree at any point, but it's an argument worth entertaining. Like 
> any anthology, disqualifying it before engaging the argument because 
> one or another poet is missing is kind of missing the point. All 
> anthologies leave out more than they include. Learn from what's there.
>
> Best,
>
> Mark
I wrote a positive Amazon review of one of the volumes of the 
anthology.  But in the absence of any anthology that represents the full 
range of contemporary American poetry, I'm against huge specialized 
anthologies that could easily have taken a broad view but didn't.  A 
much smaller anthology could have done the job of hey, America isn't the 
only country as well as the R & J one. one.

--Bob





From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net  Sun Dec 20 06:35:10 2009
From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman)
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 2009 06:35:10 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Sonnet: more of same
In-Reply-To: <731bb17a0912191842v7160200bya755e85081c23d27@mail.gmail.com>
References: <94A86D2A-A262-4D29-9AA0-5EB78DAE85AC@ripon.edu><8CC4E1484296354-49A8-5B84@webmail-m027.sysops.aol.com><4B2BC305.7090
	803@nut-n-but.net>
	<731bb17a0912191842v7160200bya755e85081c23d27@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4B2E0BEE.3040000@nut-n-but.net>

Jeff Newberry wrote:
> Once again, Bob, you prove yourself incapable of distinguishing 
> between fact & opinion.
>
> I know that you think that you're being cute, but your insistence on 
> bullying others with your simplistic view of art borders on the 
> pathological. 
>
> Jeff Newberry
A bully against so many.  Interesting.  But leave off the "borders on"; 
I'm definitely fully psychotic.  Despite the few hundred dolars I've 
earned as a poet for tthe past fifty years, Im bitter about the 
mediocrities in the field who have done better.  If that's not 
psychotic, what is?

I note, incidentally, that once against you merely describe my 
"simplistic view of art" rather than produce any kind of argument 
against it.  But don't worry, I'm sure that fairly soon your superiors 
will promote you to corporal.

--Bob



From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net  Sun Dec 20 06:41:50 2009
From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman)
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 2009 06:41:50 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Sonnet: more of same
In-Reply-To: <696030.32666.qm@web54107.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <696030.32666.qm@web54107.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4B2E0D7E.2000900@nut-n-but.net>

John Jeffrey wrote:

Ah, another Jeff from the Defenders of Mediocrity.
> Oh, I agree with Bob here.  How can it be called an "anthology" if it 
> doesn't even have my pancake poetry in it?  I've been working in 
> Panpo--a term I coined--for 30 years.  And then there's Bailey 
> Froelich, who makes noises with his hands.  He calls it poetry, and 
> who am I to say it's not poetry.  If he calls it poetry, it MUST be 
> poetry right?
No.  See my many writings on what poetry is.

> I don't see his name in either table of contents.  And what about the 
> single letter school of poets?  Have you read Soo Ling's poem "Q"?  
> I've included it below.  Or what of the poets who throw paint balloons 
> at cars?  (I tend to favor the "Highway Paint Poets" over the 
> "Backroads Paint Poets."  Much more exciting.)
Pretty funny.  But, of course, visual poetry, a subject even academics 
have written on, though those who have ignore contemporary visual 
poetry, is the equivalent of making noises with one's hands.  (That 
would be music, not poetry, according to my aesthetics.)
>
> Oh sure, you may not have even heard of these schools, but they say 
> it's poetry so therefore it has to be included in any good anthology.  
> That appears to be the rule here, right?  No rules other than a claim 
> of "poetry."

See my other writings on what a school is.  Wait.  No, continue to 
ignore reality so you can continue to be hilarious at the expense of 
someone who has someone ventured outside Wilshberia.
> And who cares if no one cares?  And who cares if there's not an actual 
> word in sight.  (How limited they would need "words."  Phsaw!)  Poetry 
> doesn't need words!  Does music need sound?  Does pen and ink need pen 
> and ink?  Does cooking need food?  Bah!
>
> Johnny Panpo
I hate to tell you this, Johnny, but I'm afraid the other Jeff is going 
to make corporal in the army to prevent poetry from expanding beyond 
Wilshberia before you will.

--Bob
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From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net  Sun Dec 20 06:51:50 2009
From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman)
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 2009 06:51:50 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Sonnet: more of same
In-Reply-To: <365a.6efd18ad.385ef886@cs.com>
References: <365a.6efd18ad.385ef886@cs.com>
Message-ID: <4B2E0FD6.1020603@nut-n-but.net>


>> Q
>>    by Soo Ling
>>
>> q
>>
>
> Soo Ling's "Q" was perhaps influential in establishing the 
> "single-letter" school of poetry, but she was soon eclipsed by 
> followers who went far beyond her initial efforts.
No, Sam.  I can't reproduce the poem that did surpass Soo Ling's poem 
but can describe it: a lower-case q with a piece missing from the bottom 
of its circle. 

Mediocrity: automatic thoughtless rejection of anything unlike the 
received art.  Single letter poems do exist.  jwcurry's small i with a 
fingerprint as its dot, is an example.  Many visual poets, too, have 
done works whose subject is the alphabet.  Sorry, don't want to confuse 
anyone.  Go back to the kind of stuff your teachers told you you were 
supposed to appreciate, and keep up the good fight against the inclusion 
of anything else in anthologies.

--Bob G.
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From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net  Sun Dec 20 06:59:24 2009
From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman)
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 2009 06:59:24 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Christmas Present
In-Reply-To: <4B2E0D7E.2000900@nut-n-but.net>
References: <696030.32666.qm@web54107.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
	<4B2E0D7E.2000900@nut-n-but.net>
Message-ID: <4B2E119C.3060509@nut-n-but.net>

Okay, now a Christmas present for New-Poetry: I'm going to stop posting 
here till we're into 2010.  I have to admit I'm annoying even myself 
now.  I still claim, however, that there are many worthwhile poets who 
are neglected and that someone should stand up for them--even though 
there are many poets who are neglected and probably should be.

--Bob





From jjeffreymail at yahoo.com  Sun Dec 20 09:36:04 2009
From: jjeffreymail at yahoo.com (John Jeffrey)
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 2009 06:36:04 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [New-Poetry] Mediocrity: automatic thoughtless rejection
In-Reply-To: <4B2E0FD6.1020603@nut-n-but.net>
References: <365a.6efd18ad.385ef886@cs.com> <4B2E0FD6.1020603@nut-n-but.net>
Message-ID: <968911.38453.qm@web54102.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

Thanks Bob.  I went to bed after my post and told my wife that there will be an email in the morning that calls me narrow or uneducated.  And there it was:  "Mediocrity: automatic thoughtless rejection of anything unlike the
received art."  Admittedly, it was in response to Sam's post to my post, but I'm in the thread.

The saddest part to me is that I was joking, and then comes a comment that, a-hem, a realpoet really did write one letter poems.  To be honest (and in my opinion), a poem that's just a lower case "i" with a finger print as the tittle sounds like something a smug sophomore would do in college. Then, giddy and tumescent with himself, he would anoint it--and himself--genius.  And if the rest of the class groaned or chuckled or silently shook their heads, he'd tag them fools, aligning himself with the misunderstood geniuses of the past.

John






________________________________
From: Bob Grumman <bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net>
To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views" <new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
Sent: Sun, December 20, 2009 6:51:50 AM
Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Sonnet: more of same



Q
>>>>   by Soo Ling
>>
>>>>q
>>
>>
>>Soo Ling's "Q" was perhaps influential in establishing the
>"single-letter" school of poetry, but she was soon eclipsed by
>followers who went far beyond her initial efforts.
No, Sam.  I can't reproduce the poem that did surpass Soo Ling's poem
but can describe it: a lower-case q with a piece missing from the
bottom of its circle.  

Mediocrity: automatic thoughtless rejection of anything unlike the
received art.  Single letter poems do exist.  jwcurry's small i with a
fingerprint as its dot, is an example.  Many visual poets, too, have
done works whose subject is the alphabet.  Sorry, don't want to confuse
anyone.  Go back to the kind of stuff your teachers told you you were
supposed to appreciate, and keep up the good fight against the
inclusion of anything else in anthologies.

--Bob G.



      
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From anny.ballardini at gmail.com  Sun Dec 20 11:05:15 2009
From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 2009 17:05:15 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] Mediocrity: automatic thoughtless rejection
In-Reply-To: <968911.38453.qm@web54102.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <365a.6efd18ad.385ef886@cs.com> <4B2E0FD6.1020603@nut-n-but.net>
	<968911.38453.qm@web54102.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4b65c2d70912200805s7d453b2duc04bbc6f07bef383@mail.gmail.com>

I read on the following site:
http://www.yeolde.org/riverwood/festival/poets.htm

*John Jeffrey*

is editor of the CT Poet Newsletter <http://www.ctpoetnewsletter.com/>.  His
fiction and poetry have appeared in journals such as *The Fairfield Review*,
*Bent Pin Quarterly*, and the *Connecticut River Review*, among others, and
he has read at numerous venues around the state.  Years ago, John earned a
double degree in writing and literature, but he has spent his adult life
trying to unlearn what he was taught.


I don't think that Bob was thus right in criticizing John Jeffrey the way he
did. But then we know that Bob is Bob a Grueman or a groooman, and he will
keep silent all the length of the Xmas Holidays. That's going to be a Sacred
Holiday, indeed.

Blessings from a warm house with Arcangelo Corelli's music in the background
after a night on ghost trains and strangely populated stations, I am just
too grateful for this nothingness, if nothingness it is.

Anny




On Sun, Dec 20, 2009 at 3:36 PM, John Jeffrey <jjeffreymail at yahoo.com>wrote:

> Thanks Bob.  I went to bed after my post and told my wife that there will
> be an email in the morning that calls me narrow or uneducated.  And there it
> was:  "Mediocrity: automatic thoughtless rejection of anything unlike the
> received art."  Admittedly, it was in response to Sam's post to my post,
> but I'm in the thread.
>
> The saddest part to me is that I was joking, and then comes a comment that,
> a-hem, a real poet really did write one letter poems.  To be honest (and
> in my opinion), a poem that's just a lower case "i" with a finger print as
> the tittle sounds like something a smug sophomore would do in college. Then,
> giddy and tumescent with himself, he would anoint it--and himself--genius.
> And if the rest of the class groaned or chuckled or silently shook their
> heads, he'd tag them fools, aligning himself with the misunderstood geniuses
> of the past.
>
> John
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
> *From:* Bob Grumman <bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net>
> *To:* "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views" <
> new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
> *Sent:* Sun, December 20, 2009 6:51:50 AM
> *Subject:* Re: [New-Poetry] Sonnet: more of same
>
>
>  Q
>    by Soo Ling
>
> q
>
>
> Soo Ling's "Q" was perhaps influential in establishing the "single-letter"
> school of poetry, but she was soon eclipsed by followers who went far beyond
> her initial efforts.
>
> No, Sam.  I can't reproduce the poem that did surpass Soo Ling's poem but
> can describe it: a lower-case q with a piece missing from the bottom of its
> circle.
>
> Mediocrity: automatic thoughtless rejection of anything unlike the received
> art.  Single letter poems do exist.  jwcurry's small i with a fingerprint as
> its dot, is an example.  Many visual poets, too, have done works whose
> subject is the alphabet.  Sorry, don't want to confuse anyone.  Go back to
> the kind of stuff your teachers told you you were supposed to appreciate,
> and keep up the good fight against the inclusion of anything else in
> anthologies.
>
> --Bob G.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
>


-- 
Anny Ballardini
http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078
http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html
I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing
star!
Friedrich Nietzsche

? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique
vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ?
Giovenale
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From jjeffreymail at yahoo.com  Sun Dec 20 12:19:28 2009
From: jjeffreymail at yahoo.com (John Jeffrey)
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 2009 09:19:28 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [New-Poetry] Mediocrity: automatic thoughtless rejection
In-Reply-To: <4b65c2d70912200805s7d453b2duc04bbc6f07bef383@mail.gmail.com>
References: <365a.6efd18ad.385ef886@cs.com> <4B2E0FD6.1020603@nut-n-but.net>
	<968911.38453.qm@web54102.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
	<4b65c2d70912200805s7d453b2duc04bbc6f07bef383@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <501613.25081.qm@web54104.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

Groan.  I hate these bios.  As editor, I tend to crop these down to teeth and bones.  And sometimes only teeth.  So many poets list every mag and journal they've ever been published in.  Yawn.

Funny bit: During a reading, when I first made the statement that I've "spent my adult  life trying to unlearn what I was taught," there was a shout from the audience, "Hey!" After the reading, I found out that it was my undergrad professor who had come to hear me read.





________________________________
From: Anny Ballardini <anny.ballardini at gmail.com>
To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views <new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
Sent: Sun, December 20, 2009 11:05:15 AM
Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Mediocrity: automatic thoughtless rejection

I read on the following site:
http://www.yeolde.org/riverwood/festival/poets.htm


John Jeffrey
is  editor of the CT Poet Newsletter.  His fiction and poetry have appeared in  journals such as The Fairfield Review, Bent Pin Quarterly,  and the Connecticut River Review, among others, and he has  read at numerous venues around the state.  Years ago, John earned a  double degree in writing and literature, but he has spent his adult  life trying to unlearn what he was taught.

I don't think that Bob was thus right in criticizing John Jeffrey the way he did. But then we know that Bob is Bob a Grueman or a groooman, and he will keep silent all the length of the Xmas Holidays. That's going to be a Sacred Holiday, indeed.
Blessings from a warm house with Arcangelo Corelli's music in the background after a night on ghost trains and strangely populated stations, I am just too grateful for this nothingness, if nothingness it is. 

Anny




On Sun, Dec 20, 2009 at 3:36 PM, John Jeffrey <jjeffreymail at yahoo.com> wrote:

Thanks Bob.  I went to bed after my post and told my wife that there will be an email in the morning that calls me narrow or uneducated.  And there it was:  "Mediocrity: automatic thoughtless rejection of anything unlike the
>received art."  Admittedly, it was in response to Sam's post to my post, but I'm in the thread.
>
>The saddest part to me is that I was joking, and then comes a comment that, a-hem, a realpoet really did write one letter poems.  To be honest (and in my opinion), a poem that's just a lower case "i" with a finger print as the tittle sounds like something a smug sophomore would do in college. Then, giddy and tumescent with himself, he would anoint it--and himself--genius.  And if the rest of the class
> groaned or chuckled or silently shook their heads, he'd tag them fools, aligning himself with the misunderstood geniuses of the past.
>
>John
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________
From: Bob Grumman <bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net>
>To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views" <new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
>Sent: Sun, December 20, 2009 6:51:50 AM
>Subject: Re: [New-Poetry]
> Sonnet: more of same
>
>
>
>Q
>>>>>>
>>>   by Soo Ling
>>>
>>>>>>q
>>>
>>>
>>>>Soo Ling's "Q" was perhaps influential in establishing the
>>"single-letter" school of poetry, but she was soon eclipsed by
>>followers who went far beyond her initial efforts.
>No, Sam.  I can't reproduce the poem that did surpass Soo Ling's poem
>but can describe it: a lower-case q with a piece missing from the
>bottom of its circle.  
>
>>Mediocrity: automatic thoughtless rejection of anything unlike the
>received art.  Single letter poems do exist.  jwcurry's small i with a
>fingerprint as its dot, is an example.  Many visual poets, too, have
>done works whose subject is the alphabet.  Sorry, don't want to confuse
>anyone.  Go back to the kind of stuff your teachers told you you were
>supposed to appreciate, and keep up the good fight against the
>inclusion of anything else in anthologies.
>
>>--Bob G.
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>>New-Poetry mailing list
>New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
>


-- 
Anny Ballardini
http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078
http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html
I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! 
Friedrich Nietzsche

? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique
vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ?
Giovenale


      
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From grahamd at ripon.edu  Sun Dec 20 12:27:07 2009
From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham)
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 2009 11:27:07 -0600
Subject: [New-Poetry] On Mediocrity
Message-ID: <F9C069DF-7A37-43E2-AF94-F133FA10365E@ripon.edu>

Yesterday's "Pearls Before Swine" comic strip amused me with the following dialogue between the misanthropic rat and the "knownstream" goat:

RAT:  I'm thinking about making it my spiritual journey to love others.

GOAT:  Then why don't you?

RAT:  Because I fear the morons will disappoint me.

GOAT:  Maybe you should start your spiritual journey by not thinking of others as "morons."

RAT:  I see the task is insurmountable.




========================================
David Graham
grahamd at ripon.edu

Home Page:
http://web.me.com/drjazz

Poetry Library:
http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html
==========================================




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From amyhappens at yahoo.com  Sun Dec 20 12:58:44 2009
From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king)
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 2009 09:58:44 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [New-Poetry] Blizzard cancelled the day and new poem up:
Message-ID: <825456.24775.qm@web83306.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>

Blizzard cancelled the reading today and new poem up:

 http://www.versedaily.org/2009/stateofanation.shtml


 Blizzard is a state of mind! That's outside the body... 

"Pray don't talk to me about the weather, Mr. Worthing. Whenever people talk to me about the weather, I always feel quite certain that they mean something else. And that makes me so nervous."- Oscar Wilde, The Importance of Being Earnest, Act 1



----- Original Message ----
From: amy king <amyhappens at yahoo.com>
We'll save you from the evil snowmen! Brave the flakes & come on over for an impromptu holiday spectacular.



Elaine Equi / Bob Viscusi 
Amy King / Doug Holder 
& Ana Bozicevic
with music by Brant Lyon



hosted by Iris N. Schwartz


Sunday, December 20, 2009
Time:   6:00pm - 8:00pm

Cornelia Street Caf?
29 Cornelia St.
(between Bleecker & West 4th Sts.)
NYC
www.corneliastreetcafe.com 



Directions: All trains to West 4th St. or # 1 train to Christopher St.
Cover: $7 (includes one house drink)



_______

NEW BOOK
Slaves to Do These Things -- http://www.blazevox.org/bk-ak3.htm 


      



From anny.ballardini at gmail.com  Sun Dec 20 13:21:31 2009
From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 2009 19:21:31 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] On Mediocrity
In-Reply-To: <F9C069DF-7A37-43E2-AF94-F133FA10365E@ripon.edu>
References: <F9C069DF-7A37-43E2-AF94-F133FA10365E@ripon.edu>
Message-ID: <4b65c2d70912201021j45413f02gd99d7b7ef697904b@mail.gmail.com>

chuckle chuckle

On Sun, Dec 20, 2009 at 6:27 PM, David Graham <grahamd at ripon.edu> wrote:

> Yesterday's "Pearls Before Swine" comic strip amused me with the following
> dialogue between the misanthropic rat and the "knownstream" goat:
>
> RAT:  I'm thinking about making it my spiritual journey to love others.
>
> GOAT:  Then why don't you?
>
> RAT:  Because I fear the morons will disappoint me.
>
> GOAT:  Maybe you should start your spiritual journey by not thinking of
> others as "morons."
>
> RAT:  I see the task is insurmountable.
>
>
>
>
> ========================================
> David Graham
> grahamd at ripon.edu
>
> Home Page:
> http://web.me.com/drjazz
>
> Poetry Library:
> http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html
> ==========================================
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
>


-- 
Anny Ballardini
http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078
http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html
I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing
star!
Friedrich Nietzsche

? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique
vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ?
Giovenale
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From jforjames at aol.com  Mon Dec 21 09:54:23 2009
From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 2009 09:54:23 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] 2 Anthologies reviewed
Message-ID: <8CC50649E0A73BD-DC0-1D1DD@webmail-m086.sysops.aol.com>


http://www.baltimoresun.com/entertainment/bal-ae.bk.poetrybooks20dec20,0,6504534.story

"Black Nature" Camille Dungy, editor, University of Georgia Press, $17.96.

"The Swallow Anthology of New American Poets," David Yezzi, editor, Swallow Press, $13.57.

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From editor at eratiopostmodernpoetry.com  Mon Dec 21 10:09:33 2009
From: editor at eratiopostmodernpoetry.com (=?iso-8859-1?Q?e=B7ratio?=)
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 2009 10:09:33 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] 
 =?iso-8859-1?q?E=B7ratio_issue_13_featuring_The_Alan_Halsey_Inte?=
 =?iso-8859-1?q?rview=2E_Co?=  ming in January.
Message-ID: <b51dc7ebc50de986ac24258738bb64af.squirrel@webmail1.web.com>

e?

E?ratio issue 13 featuring The Alan Halsey Interview. Coming in January.


http://eratio.blogspot.com/

e?




From anny.ballardini at gmail.com  Mon Dec 21 11:13:55 2009
From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 2009 17:13:55 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] The Loneliest Job in the World from the Writer's
	Almanac
Message-ID: <4b65c2d70912210813s8024819x6debd7597fdc321a@mail.gmail.com>

 The Loneliest Job in the World

by Tony Hoagland<http://www.elabs7.com/c.html?rtr=on&s=fj6,jn23,dv,jfau,1gch,3hrs,fxvj>

As soon as you begin to ask the question, *Who loves me?*,
you are completely screwed, because
the next question is *How Much?,*

and then it is hundreds of hours later,
and you are still hunched over
your flowcharts and abacus,

trying to decide if you have gotten enough.
This is the loneliest job in the world:
to be an accountant of the heart.

It is late at night. You are by yourself,
and all around you, you can hear
the sounds of people moving

in and out of love,
pushing the turnstiles, putting
their coins in the slots,

paying the price which is asked,
which constantly changes.
No one knows why.

"The Loneliest Job in the World" by Tony Hoagland, from *Unincorporated
Persons in the Late Honda Dynasty*. ? Graywolf Press, 2010. Reprinted with
permission. (buy
now<http://www.elabs7.com/c.html?rtr=on&s=fj6,jn23,dv,5ln8,8jyg,3hrs,fxvj>)



-- 
Anny Ballardini
http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078
http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html
I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing
star!
Friedrich Nietzsche

? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique
vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ?
Giovenale
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From anny.ballardini at gmail.com  Mon Dec 21 11:16:09 2009
From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 2009 17:16:09 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] Tim Nolan chosen by Ted Kooser
Message-ID: <4b65c2d70912210816y1641c12dp7a7050bdaa448c60@mail.gmail.com>

******************************

American Life in Poetry: Column 248

BY TED KOOSER, U.S. POET LAUREATE, 2004-2006

 by Tim Nolan



*At the Choral Concert
*

The high school kids are so beautiful
in their lavender blouses and crisp white shirts.

They open their mouths to sing with that
far-off stare they had looking out from the crib.

Their voices lift up from the marble bed
of the high altar to the blue endless ceiling

of heaven as depicted in the cloudy dome?
and we?as the parents?crane our necks

to see our children and what is above us?
and ahead of us?until the end when we

are invited up to sing with them?sopranos
and altos?tenors and basses?to sing the great

*Hallelujah Chorus*?and I?m standing with the other
stunned and gray fathers?holding our sheet music?

searching for our parts?and we realize?
our voices are surprisingly rich?experienced?

*For the Lord God* *omnipotent reigneth*?
and how do we all know to come in

at exactly the right moment??*Forever and ever*?
and how can it not seem that we shall reign

*forever and ever*?in one voice with our beautiful
children?looking out into all those lights.


-- 
Anny Ballardini
http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078
http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html
I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing
star!
Friedrich Nietzsche

? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique
vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ?
Giovenale
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From grahamd at ripon.edu  Mon Dec 21 11:26:59 2009
From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham)
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 2009 10:26:59 -0600
Subject: [New-Poetry] Time for some Neruda
Message-ID: <725A1F9E-F421-4AD5-B72B-2AEA846E360B@ripon.edu>


We Are Many 

Of the many men who I am, who we are,
I can't find a single one;
they disappear among my clothes,
they've left for another city. 

When everything seems to be set
to show me off as intelligent,
the fool I always keep hidden
takes over all that I say. 

At other times, I'm asleep
among distinguished people,
and when I look for my brave self,
a coward unknown to me
rushes to cover my skeleton
with a thousand fine excuses. 

When a decent house catches fire,
instead of the fireman I summon,
an arsonist bursts on the scene,
and that's me. What can I do?
What can I do to distinguish myself?
How can I pull myself together? 

All the books I read
are full of dazzling heroes,
always sure of themselves.
I die with envy of them;
and in films full of wind and bullets,
I goggle at the cowboys,
I even admire the horses. 

But when I call for a hero,
out comes my lazy old self;
so I never know who I am,
nor how many I am or will be.
I'd love to be able to touch a bell
and summon the real me,
because if I really need myself,
I mustn't disappear. 

While I'm writing, I'm far away;
and when I come back, I've gone.
I would like to know if others
go through the same things that I do,
have as many selves as I have,
and see themselves similarly;
and when I've exhausted this problem,
I'm going to study so hard
that when I explain myself,
I'll be talking geography.

-- Pablo Neruda. Extravagaria. Trans.  Alastair Reid. Farrar, Straus & Giroux, 1974.



========================================
David Graham
grahamd at ripon.edu

Home Page:
http://web.me.com/drjazz

Poetry Library:
http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html
==========================================




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From anny.ballardini at gmail.com  Mon Dec 21 15:24:50 2009
From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 2009 21:24:50 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] Time for some Neruda
In-Reply-To: <725A1F9E-F421-4AD5-B72B-2AEA846E360B@ripon.edu>
References: <725A1F9E-F421-4AD5-B72B-2AEA846E360B@ripon.edu>
Message-ID: <4b65c2d70912211224h5d3a4acbg196b4dba4404680b@mail.gmail.com>

I have recycled part of the last strophe, thank you for forwarding this
poem.
I think, it should not be me to say it, but it seems to me that I wrote on a
similar topic,

THE STATE OF BEING

I cannot remember because I was there
I can go back there and from here talk to you
and I can go to when I was reading about T.
and remember what I read and resume
at present the substance of past with quick
dislocating movements while sitting still.

If I want to relate of here I have to get out
and move to a staring posture which is not now,
indefinite and atemporal when the wind brings
me back and I repeat
                          *the wind brings me back*
and type.

from Opening and Closing Numbers.

On Mon, Dec 21, 2009 at 5:26 PM, David Graham <grahamd at ripon.edu> wrote:

>
> *We Are Many *
>
> Of the many men who I am, who we are,
> I can't find a single one;
> they disappear among my clothes,
> they've left for another city.
>
> When everything seems to be set
> to show me off as intelligent,
> the fool I always keep hidden
> takes over all that I say.
>
> At other times, I'm asleep
> among distinguished people,
> and when I look for my brave self,
> a coward unknown to me
> rushes to cover my skeleton
> with a thousand fine excuses.
>
> When a decent house catches fire,
> instead of the fireman I summon,
> an arsonist bursts on the scene,
> and that's me. What can I do?
> What can I do to distinguish myself?
> How can I pull myself together?
>
> All the books I read
> are full of dazzling heroes,
> always sure of themselves.
> I die with envy of them;
> and in films full of wind and bullets,
> I goggle at the cowboys,
> I even admire the horses.
>
> But when I call for a hero,
> out comes my lazy old self;
> so I never know who I am,
> nor how many I am or will be.
> I'd love to be able to touch a bell
> and summon the real me,
> because if I really need myself,
> I mustn't disappear.
>
> While I'm writing, I'm far away;
> and when I come back, I've gone.
> I would like to know if others
> go through the same things that I do,
> have as many selves as I have,
> and see themselves similarly;
> and when I've exhausted this problem,
> I'm going to study so hard
> that when I explain myself,
> I'll be talking geography.
>
> -- Pablo Neruda. *Extravagaria*. Trans.  Alastair Reid. Farrar, Straus &
> Giroux, 1974.
>
>
>
> ========================================
> David Graham
> grahamd at ripon.edu
>
> Home Page:
> http://web.me.com/drjazz
>
> Poetry Library:
> http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html
> ==========================================
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
>


-- 
Anny Ballardini
http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078
http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html
I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing
star!
Friedrich Nietzsche

? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique
vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ?
Giovenale
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From jforjames at aol.com  Mon Dec 21 16:08:13 2009
From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 2009 16:08:13 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Fleda Brown column features Albert Goldbarth poem
Message-ID: <8CC5098D7C89AF4-888-2DDE6@webmail-d031.sysops.aol.com>


http://www.record-eagle.com/onpoetry/local_story_355064050.html
So, what is human beauty, according to Albert Goldbarth's poem? 

What we make is always "insufficient," as he says. 

It's not as real or as complete as the "real thing" we want to mirror -- love or death or snow -- but it is our own "distinctly human" kind. 

Our art and all our attempts are like paper snow, but look, in this poem, it's absorbed into the real snow! 

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From GrahamD at ripon.edu  Mon Dec 21 17:13:39 2009
From: GrahamD at ripon.edu (David Graham)
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 2009 16:13:39 -0600
Subject: [New-Poetry] My favorite recent headline
Message-ID: <6DD7D694-772E-4F8B-9A6D-0BA8FD7CEF16@ripon.edu>

"Lorca's Grave Empty"

What else did they expect?




========================================
David Graham
grahamd at ripon.edu

Home Page:
http://web.me.com/drjazz

Poetry Library:
http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html
==========================================




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From obodooha at gmail.com  Tue Dec 22 01:54:06 2009
From: obodooha at gmail.com (Obododimma Oha)
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 2009 22:54:06 -0800
Subject: [New-Poetry] Homeward Bound
Message-ID: <a24092720912212254l327f12a3k2fa5496c969d8387@mail.gmail.com>

"There is always a pull towards home ? that location that we often imagine
as our own, that we often think is where our gods and goddesses reside and
from where they preside over our affairs, that location where we always have
that feeling that we belong, where our umbilical cords were buried at the
foot of some palm tree. The cord, we have always believed, connects us
eternally to the Motherland, to whom we will always return, for our
ancestors insisted and inscribed in our hearts the creed that the
kinsperson?s head must never get lost in a foreign land."

More from "Homeward
Bound<http://234next.com/csp/cms/sites/Next/Opinion/Editorial/5500129-182/story.csp>
":
http://234next.com/csp/cms/sites/Next/Opinion/Editorial/5500129-182/story.csp
-- 
Obododimma Oha
http://udude.wordpress.com/

Dept. of English
University of Ibadan
Nigeria

&

Fellow, Centre for Peace & Conflict Studies
University of Ibadan

Phone: +234 803 333 1330;
           +234 805 350 6604;
           +234 808 264 8060.
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From jforjames at aol.com  Tue Dec 22 09:36:19 2009
From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 2009 09:36:19 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] SFGate best poetry books of 2009
Message-ID: <8CC512B42775F26-64A4-1273C@webmail-d081.sysops.aol.com>


http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2009/12/18/RV831B4ADG.DTL&type=books

Best poetry books of 2009

Dean Rader, Special to The Chronicle
Sunday, December 20, 2009
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From jforjames at aol.com  Tue Dec 22 09:39:58 2009
From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 2009 09:39:58 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Barnes & Noble's poetry picks
Message-ID: <8CC512BC54DC9BD-64A4-12820@webmail-d081.sysops.aol.com>


http://www.csmonitor.com/Books/chapter-and-verse/2009/1222/Best-of-2009-poetry-The-Looking-House-by-soldier-poet-Fred-Marchant


"The Looking House," Marchant's fourth volume of poetry, has been selected by BarnesandNobleReview.com as one of the five best volumes of poetry of 2005. (The site's other picks include: "If I Were Another" by Mahmoud Darwish, "Sonata Mulattica" by Rita Dove, "Hollywood & God" by Robert Polito, and "Apocalyptic Swing" by Gabrielle Calvocoressi.)
Marchant's own experience as a soldier in Vietnam seems to inform much of his work. One poem in "The Looking House" recalls Marchant reading about Agamemnon (who led the Greek forces during the Trojan War), as he worked on a farm in Ireland shortly after leaving the military, seeking balm as he milked cows and tended hay.

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From anny.ballardini at gmail.com  Tue Dec 22 11:45:02 2009
From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 2009 17:45:02 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] Is There a Santa Claus?
Message-ID: <4b65c2d70912220845k30648f59i8d4cb5df7ca98613@mail.gmail.com>

Yes, Virginia, there is a Santa Claus. He exists as certainly as love and
generosity and devotion exist, and you know that they abound and give to
your life its highest beauty and joy. Alas! how dreary would be the world if
there were no Santa Claus. It would be as dreary as if there were no
Virginias. There would be no childlike faith then, no poetry, no romance to
make tolerable this existence. We should have no enjoyment, except in sense
and sight. The eternal light with which childhood fills the world would be
extinguished.
by Esther Lombardi
http://classiclit.about.com/od/christmasliteratur1/a/aa_yessanta.htm


-- 
Anny Ballardini
http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078
http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html
I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing
star!
Friedrich Nietzsche

? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique
vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ?
Giovenale
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From jforjames at aol.com  Tue Dec 22 19:45:05 2009
From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 2009 19:45:05 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Edward Byrne's book noticed
Message-ID: <8CC51804DDE4441-8228-2B6B@webmail-m036.sysops.aol.com>


http://www.valpolife.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=5620
A new book of poems by Valparaiso University professor Dr. Edward Byrne is being lauded by critics for its lyricism and deep exploration of life and nature. 

?Seeded Light,? Dr. Byrne?s sixth collection of poems, is the most extensive book of the English professor?s career. 

??Seeded Light? contains a fairly comprehensive scope of poetry,? Dr. Byrne says, ?that expresses, through imagery written in accessible language, a variety of views on subjects as diverse as nature, art, literature, music, memory, imagination, friendship, family, love, loss, life, maturity and mortality.? 

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From jforjames at aol.com  Tue Dec 22 19:55:13 2009
From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 2009 19:55:13 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] New and On View: Mudlark Flash No. 52 (2009)
Message-ID: <8CC5181B8453AE1-8228-2DE6@webmail-m036.sysops.aol.com>


Date:    Mon, 21 Dec 2009 19:26:29 -0500
From:    William Slaughter <wrs at UNF.EDU>
Subject: Notice: Mudlark

New and On View: Mudlark Flash No. 52 (2009)

Bee Fugue | Poem by Rebecca Foust | Images by Lorna Stevens

Bee Fugue is from God, Seed, a full length book collaboration between
poet Rebecca Foust and artist Lorna Stevens that will be published in
2010 by Tebot Bach. Foust's book, All That Gorgeous, Pitiless
Song, recently won the Many Mountains Moving Book Award and will be
released in April 2010. Her chapbooks, Mom's Canoe and Dark Card,
won the Robert Phillips Prizes in 2007 and 2008.

Lorna Stevens received her MFA in Sculpture from Columbia University.
She exhibits widely in galleries and public spaces. Her work has been
reviewed in The Boston Globe, The San Francisco Chronicle, The Marin
Independent Journal and Artweek and has been acquired by the Brooklyn
Museum, the New York Public Library and the di Rosa Preserve in Napa, CA.

Spread the word. Far and wide,

William Slaughter

MUDLARK
An Electronic Journal of Poetry & Poetics
Never in and never out of print...
E-mail: mudlark at unf.edu
URL: http://www.unf.edu/mudlark

-
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From jforjames at aol.com  Tue Dec 22 20:34:02 2009
From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 2009 20:34:02 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Burt reviews Marie Ponsot
Message-ID: <8CC5187241C4741-8228-37A0@webmail-m036.sysops.aol.com>


http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/20/books/review/Burt-t.html
The Wonder Years 
Published: December 16, 2009 

Next April, Marie Ponsot will turn 89 years old. The best work in ?Easy,? her sixth collection, responds ? with cheer and tolerance, with terse good humor ? to her accumulated years. ?Old?s our game,? says the woman (not the poet) who speaks in the sonnet ?We Own the Alternative?: ?Mere failure to be young is not interesting.? What interests Ponsot instead is the set of perspectives that old age creates for her ? calm, tolerant and often delighted.

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From jforjames at aol.com  Tue Dec 22 20:46:37 2009
From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 2009 20:46:37 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] poets playlists
Message-ID: <8CC5188E6961DE1-8228-3A33@webmail-m036.sysops.aol.com>

http://www.poetrysociety.org/psa/poetry/crossroads/desert_island/
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From AlMaginnes at aol.com  Tue Dec 22 21:09:15 2009
From: AlMaginnes at aol.com (AlMaginnes at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 2009 21:09:15 EST
Subject: [New-Poetry] poets playlists
Message-ID: <caa.573dd8e8.3862d5cb@aol.com>

Typical poets--they all have to begin by explaining how unlikely it is to  
find oneself stranded on a desert island with electricity. Now I have to go  
compile my list. How about anyone else?
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From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com  Tue Dec 22 21:48:45 2009
From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell)
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 2009 18:48:45 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [New-Poetry] Neruda/ Raul Zurita
Message-ID: <179462.42323.qm@web55204.mail.re4.yahoo.com>

Thanks to David Graham for the Neruda poem.

I've posted something (very recently/1 maybe 2 days ago) on buffalo.edu about the Post Neruda, Raul Zurita, and his 3rd??? volume of poetry entitled PURGATORY. A new master has stepped on 2 the stage. 

The forward to the english trans by C.D. Wright is remarkable. Zurita, what a poet, what a life. 


      


From junction at earthlink.net  Tue Dec 22 23:02:18 2009
From: junction at earthlink.net (Mark Weiss)
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 2009 23:02:18 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Neruda/ Raul Zurita
In-Reply-To: <179462.42323.qm@web55204.mail.re4.yahoo.com>
References: <179462.42323.qm@web55204.mail.re4.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <E1NNIQn-00068Y-KN@elasmtp-galgo.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

If I remember correctly, Purgatory was the first of his four books. 
It's wonderful that we finally have it in English, but it's a measure 
of our insularity that Zurita's been a celebrity in Spain and Latin 
America for 30 years--we're not really talking about a new master. 
And there's plenty of important and well-known work by poets most 
English speakers have never heard of left to be discovered.

Only 3% of books published in the US are translations from other 
languages. I think the figure is similar in Britain. In Italy and 
France it's 30%. Explanations, anyone?

Best,

Mark

At 09:48 PM 12/22/2009, you wrote:
>Thanks to David Graham for the Neruda poem.
>
>I've posted something (very recently/1 maybe 2 days ago) on 
>buffalo.edu about the Post Neruda, Raul Zurita, and his 3rd??? 
>volume of poetry entitled PURGATORY. A new master has stepped on 2 the stage.
>
>The forward to the english trans by C.D. Wright is remarkable. 
>Zurita, what a poet, what a life.
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>New-Poetry mailing list
>New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry

Announcing The Whole Island: Six Decades of Cuban Poetry (University 
of California Press).
Forthcoming in November 2009.
http://go.ucpress.edu/WholeIsland





From anny.ballardini at gmail.com  Wed Dec 23 01:19:44 2009
From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 2009 07:19:44 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] Neruda/ Raul Zurita
In-Reply-To: <E1NNIQn-00068Y-KN@elasmtp-galgo.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
References: <179462.42323.qm@web55204.mail.re4.yahoo.com>
	<E1NNIQn-00068Y-KN@elasmtp-galgo.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <4b65c2d70912222219k753cece5l2b161736e5f053d9@mail.gmail.com>

Yes, American contemporary poetry is much better than the Italian one. Italy
peaked in the Cinquecento and since then it has been a steady downhill with
very few exceptions. Fernanda Pivano was paid to translate, but about 80-70%
of the translations are free gifts to culture, I think this confirms my
previous statement.
Second explanation, compare the size of Italy with the United States.
France? Just about Texas. Imagine people reading only poets coming from
Texas, after a while even the most diligent student will be fed fed fed UP.

Yours in Xmas...
Anny

On Wed, Dec 23, 2009 at 5:02 AM, Mark Weiss <junction at earthlink.net> wrote:

> If I remember correctly, Purgatory was the first of his four books. It's
> wonderful that we finally have it in English, but it's a measure of our
> insularity that Zurita's been a celebrity in Spain and Latin America for 30
> years--we're not really talking about a new master. And there's plenty of
> important and well-known work by poets most English speakers have never
> heard of left to be discovered.
>
> Only 3% of books published in the US are translations from other languages.
> I think the figure is similar in Britain. In Italy and France it's 30%.
> Explanations, anyone?
>
> Best,
>
> Mark
>
>
> At 09:48 PM 12/22/2009, you wrote:
>
>> Thanks to David Graham for the Neruda poem.
>>
>> I've posted something (very recently/1 maybe 2 days ago) on buffalo.eduabout the Post Neruda, Raul Zurita, and his 3rd??? volume of poetry entitled
>> PURGATORY. A new master has stepped on 2 the stage.
>>
>> The forward to the english trans by C.D. Wright is remarkable. Zurita,
>> what a poet, what a life.
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> New-Poetry mailing list
>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>>
>
> Announcing The Whole Island: Six Decades of Cuban Poetry (University of
> California Press).
> Forthcoming in November 2009.
> http://go.ucpress.edu/WholeIsland
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>



-- 
Anny Ballardini
http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078
http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html
I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing
star!
Friedrich Nietzsche

? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique
vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ?
Giovenale
-------------- next part --------------
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From junction at earthlink.net  Wed Dec 23 03:05:12 2009
From: junction at earthlink.net (Mark Weiss)
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 2009 03:05:12 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Neruda/ Raul Zurita
In-Reply-To: <4b65c2d70912222219k753cece5l2b161736e5f053d9@mail.gmail.co
 m>
References: <179462.42323.qm@web55204.mail.re4.yahoo.com>
	<E1NNIQn-00068Y-KN@elasmtp-galgo.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
	<4b65c2d70912222219k753cece5l2b161736e5f053d9@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <E1NNMDr-00043l-5e@elasmtp-masked.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

It's not just poetry that isn't translated.

But really you'd have to argue that English 
language poetry is so wonderful that there's no 
reason to be curious about all of the rest of the world's poetry.

At 01:19 AM 12/23/2009, you wrote:
>Yes, American contemporary poetry is much better 
>than the Italian one. Italy peaked in the 
>Cinquecento and since then it has been a steady 
>downhill with very few exceptions. Fernanda 
>Pivano was paid to translate, but about 80-70% 
>of the translations are free gifts to culture, I 
>think this confirms my previous statement.
>Second explanation, compare the size of Italy 
>with the United States. France? Just about 
>Texas. Imagine people reading only poets coming 
>from Texas, after a while even the most diligent 
>student will be fed fed fed UP.
>
>Yours in Xmas...
>Anny
>
>On Wed, Dec 23, 2009 at 5:02 AM, Mark Weiss 
><<mailto:junction at earthlink.net>junction at earthlink.net> wrote:
>If I remember correctly, Purgatory was the first 
>of his four books. It's wonderful that we 
>finally have it in English, but it's a measure 
>of our insularity that Zurita's been a celebrity 
>in Spain and Latin America for 30 years--we're 
>not really talking about a new master. And 
>there's plenty of important and well-known work 
>by poets most English speakers have never heard of left to be discovered.
>
>Only 3% of books published in the US are 
>translations from other languages. I think the 
>figure is similar in Britain. In Italy and 
>France it's 30%. Explanations, anyone?
>
>Best,
>
>Mark
>
>
>At 09:48 PM 12/22/2009, you wrote:
>Thanks to David Graham for the Neruda poem.
>
>I've posted something (very recently/1 maybe 2 
>days ago) on <http://buffalo.edu>buffalo.edu 
>about the Post Neruda, Raul Zurita, and his 
>3rd??? volume of poetry entitled PURGATORY. A 
>new master has stepped on 2 the stage.
>
>The forward to the english trans by C.D. Wright 
>is remarkable. Zurita, what a poet, what a life.
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>New-Poetry mailing list
><mailto:New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
>
>Announcing The Whole Island: Six Decades of 
>Cuban Poetry (University of California Press).
>Forthcoming in November 2009.
><http://go.ucpress.edu/WholeIsland>http://go.ucpress.edu/WholeIsland
>
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>New-Poetry mailing list
><mailto:New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
>
>
>
>--
>Anny Ballardini
><http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/>http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
>http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
><http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078>http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078
>http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html
>I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star!
>Friedrich Nietzsche
>
>? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique
>vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ?
>Giovenale
>
>_______________________________________________
>New-Poetry mailing list
>New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry

Announcing The Whole Island: Six Decades of Cuban 
Poetry (University of California Press).
Forthcoming in November 2009.
http://go.ucpress.edu/WholeIsland






From anny.ballardini at gmail.com  Wed Dec 23 08:25:27 2009
From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 2009 14:25:27 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] Neruda/ Raul Zurita
In-Reply-To: <E1NNMDr-00043l-5e@elasmtp-masked.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
References: <179462.42323.qm@web55204.mail.re4.yahoo.com>
	<E1NNIQn-00068Y-KN@elasmtp-galgo.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
	<4b65c2d70912222219k753cece5l2b161736e5f053d9@mail.gmail.com>
	<E1NNMDr-00043l-5e@elasmtp-masked.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <4b65c2d70912230525w5951c5d8h7812dc00d145a9a7@mail.gmail.com>

It seems that you and me will never agree on this topic, whichever list we
are on. First I did not say English language poetry, I said American poetry.
Second I gave you two aspects, a qualitative and a quantitative one.
Let me try it in a different way:
I know you lived all over the world, how come you live in New York and not
in Marseille, just a town that popped up in this moment in my head?
Maybe in the States education is better than in Europe, or in South America;
maybe people in the States have developed a greater awareness and are able
to share in a more sophisticated, refined, spontaneous, naive, ..., way? The
Gutenberg site is American, and look at the enormous quantity of material
that the States have been sharing for years before the other countries woke
up (slowly please and without too much effort...), namely American
Universities. Because they are corporations? Who are the corporations?
People like you and me that in this moment are typing and reading instead of
having lunch, it is already 2.30 here, and I'd better try to get something
in my stomach.

Take care Mark, you know that I do not have any personal bad feelings
against you. It is just that we do not agree on this topic.


On Wed, Dec 23, 2009 at 9:05 AM, Mark Weiss <junction at earthlink.net> wrote:

> It's not just poetry that isn't translated.
>
> But really you'd have to argue that English language poetry is so wonderful
> that there's no reason to be curious about all of the rest of the world's
> poetry.
>
>
> At 01:19 AM 12/23/2009, you wrote:
>
>> Yes, American contemporary poetry is much better than the Italian one.
>> Italy peaked in the Cinquecento and since then it has been a steady downhill
>> with very few exceptions. Fernanda Pivano was paid to translate, but about
>> 80-70% of the translations are free gifts to culture, I think this confirms
>> my previous statement.
>> Second explanation, compare the size of Italy with the United States.
>> France? Just about Texas. Imagine people reading only poets coming from
>> Texas, after a while even the most diligent student will be fed fed fed UP.
>>
>> Yours in Xmas...
>> Anny
>>
>> On Wed, Dec 23, 2009 at 5:02 AM, Mark Weiss <<mailto:
>> junction at earthlink.net>junction at earthlink.net> wrote:
>> If I remember correctly, Purgatory was the first of his four books. It's
>> wonderful that we finally have it in English, but it's a measure of our
>> insularity that Zurita's been a celebrity in Spain and Latin America for 30
>> years--we're not really talking about a new master. And there's plenty of
>> important and well-known work by poets most English speakers have never
>> heard of left to be discovered.
>>
>> Only 3% of books published in the US are translations from other
>> languages. I think the figure is similar in Britain. In Italy and France
>> it's 30%. Explanations, anyone?
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> Mark
>>
>>
>> At 09:48 PM 12/22/2009, you wrote:
>> Thanks to David Graham for the Neruda poem.
>>
>> I've posted something (very recently/1 maybe 2 days ago) on <
>> http://buffalo.edu>buffalo.edu about the Post Neruda, Raul Zurita, and
>> his 3rd??? volume of poetry entitled PURGATORY. A new master has stepped on
>> 2 the stage.
>>
>>
>> The forward to the english trans by C.D. Wright is remarkable. Zurita,
>> what a poet, what a life.
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> New-Poetry mailing list
>> <mailto:New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>>
>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>>
>>
>> Announcing The Whole Island: Six Decades of Cuban Poetry (University of
>> California Press).
>> Forthcoming in November 2009.
>> <http://go.ucpress.edu/WholeIsland>http://go.ucpress.edu/WholeIsland
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> New-Poetry mailing list
>> <mailto:New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>>
>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Anny Ballardini
>> <http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/>http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
>>
>> http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
>> <http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078>http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078
>>
>> http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html
>> I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing
>> star!
>> Friedrich Nietzsche
>>
>> ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique
>> vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ?
>> Giovenale
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> New-Poetry mailing list
>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>>
>
> Announcing The Whole Island: Six Decades of Cuban Poetry (University of
> California Press).
> Forthcoming in November 2009.
> http://go.ucpress.edu/WholeIsland
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>



-- 
Anny Ballardini
http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078
http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html
I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing
star!
Friedrich Nietzsche

? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique
vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ?
Giovenale
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20091223/626bb884/attachment.html>

From junction at earthlink.net  Wed Dec 23 09:10:10 2009
From: junction at earthlink.net (Mark Weiss)
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 2009 09:10:10 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Neruda/ Raul Zurita
In-Reply-To: <4b65c2d70912230525w5951c5d8h7812dc00d145a9a7@mail.gmail.co
 m>
References: <179462.42323.qm@web55204.mail.re4.yahoo.com>
	<E1NNIQn-00068Y-KN@elasmtp-galgo.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
	<4b65c2d70912222219k753cece5l2b161736e5f053d9@mail.gmail.com>
	<E1NNMDr-00043l-5e@elasmtp-masked.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
	<4b65c2d70912230525w5951c5d8h7812dc00d145a9a7@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <E1NNRv4-00030w-BX@elasmtp-masked.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

I was talking about publishing. Really. But it's 
also the case that Americans read on average very 
few books compared to most other countries with 
reasonable literacy rates. And the latter surely informs the former.

At 08:25 AM 12/23/2009, you wrote:
>It seems that you and me will never agree on 
>this topic, whichever list we are on. First I 
>did not say English language poetry, I said 
>American poetry. Second I gave you two aspects, 
>a qualitative and a quantitative one.
>Let me try it in a different way:
>I know you lived all over the world, how come 
>you live in New York and not in Marseille, just 
>a town that popped up in this moment in my head?
>Maybe in the States education is better than in 
>Europe, or in South America; maybe people in the 
>States have developed a greater awareness and 
>are able to share in a more sophisticated, 
>refined, spontaneous, naive, ..., way? The 
>Gutenberg site is American, and look at the 
>enormous quantity of material that the States 
>have been sharing for years before the other 
>countries woke up (slowly please and without too 
>much effort...), namely American Universities. 
>Because they are corporations? Who are the 
>corporations? People like you and me that in 
>this moment are typing and reading instead of 
>having lunch, it is already 2.30 here, and I'd 
>better try to get something in my stomach.
>
>Take care Mark, you know that I do not have any 
>personal bad feelings against you. It is just 
>that we do not agree on this topic.
>
>
>On Wed, Dec 23, 2009 at 9:05 AM, Mark Weiss 
><<mailto:junction at earthlink.net>junction at earthlink.net> wrote:
>It's not just poetry that isn't translated.
>
>But really you'd have to argue that English 
>language poetry is so wonderful that there's no 
>reason to be curious about all of the rest of the world's poetry.
>
>
>At 01:19 AM 12/23/2009, you wrote:
>Yes, American contemporary poetry is much better 
>than the Italian one. Italy peaked in the 
>Cinquecento and since then it has been a steady 
>downhill with very few exceptions. Fernanda 
>Pivano was paid to translate, but about 80-70% 
>of the translations are free gifts to culture, I 
>think this confirms my previous statement.
>Second explanation, compare the size of Italy 
>with the United States. France? Just about 
>Texas. Imagine people reading only poets coming 
>from Texas, after a while even the most diligent 
>student will be fed fed fed UP.
>
>Yours in Xmas...
>Anny
>
>On Wed, Dec 23, 2009 at 5:02 AM, Mark Weiss 
><<mailto:junction at earthlink.net><mailto:junction at earthlink.net>junction at earthlink.net> 
>wrote:
>If I remember correctly, Purgatory was the first 
>of his four books. It's wonderful that we 
>finally have it in English, but it's a measure 
>of our insularity that Zurita's been a celebrity 
>in Spain and Latin America for 30 years--we're 
>not really talking about a new master. And 
>there's plenty of important and well-known work 
>by poets most English speakers have never heard of left to be discovered.
>
>Only 3% of books published in the US are 
>translations from other languages. I think the 
>figure is similar in Britain. In Italy and 
>France it's 30%. Explanations, anyone?
>
>Best,
>
>Mark
>
>
>At 09:48 PM 12/22/2009, you wrote:
>Thanks to David Graham for the Neruda poem.
>
>I've posted something (very recently/1 maybe 2 
>days ago) on 
><<http://buffalo.edu>http://buffalo.edu><http://buffalo.edu>buffalo.edu 
>about the Post Neruda, Raul Zurita, and his 
>3rd??? volume of poetry entitled PURGATORY. A 
>new master has stepped on 2 the stage.
>
>
>The forward to the english trans by C.D. Wright 
>is remarkable. Zurita, what a poet, what a life.
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>New-Poetry mailing list
><mailto:New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu><mailto:New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>
>http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
>
>Announcing The Whole Island: Six Decades of 
>Cuban Poetry (University of California Press).
>Forthcoming in November 2009.
><<http://go.ucpress.edu/WholeIsland>http://go.ucpress.edu/WholeIsland>http://go.ucpress.edu/WholeIsland
>
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>New-Poetry mailing list
><mailto:New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu><mailto:New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>
>http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
>
>
>
>--
>Anny Ballardini
><<http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/>http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/>http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
>
><http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome>http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
><http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078><http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078>http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078
>
>http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html
>I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star!
>Friedrich Nietzsche
>
>? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique
>vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ?
>Giovenale
>
>_______________________________________________
>New-Poetry mailing list
><mailto:New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
>
>Announcing The Whole Island: Six Decades of 
>Cuban Poetry (University of California Press).
>Forthcoming in November 2009.
><http://go.ucpress.edu/WholeIsland>http://go.ucpress.edu/WholeIsland
>
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>New-Poetry mailing list
><mailto:New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
>
>
>
>--
>Anny Ballardini
><http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/>http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
>http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
><http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078>http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078
>http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html
>I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star!
>Friedrich Nietzsche
>
>? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique
>vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ?
>Giovenale
>
>_______________________________________________
>New-Poetry mailing list
>New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry

Announcing The Whole Island: Six Decades of Cuban 
Poetry (University of California Press).
Forthcoming in November 2009.
http://go.ucpress.edu/WholeIsland






From uche at ogbuji.net  Wed Dec 23 09:27:13 2009
From: uche at ogbuji.net (Uche Ogbuji)
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 2009 07:27:13 -0700
Subject: [New-Poetry] Neruda/ Raul Zurita
In-Reply-To: <E1NNRv4-00030w-BX@elasmtp-masked.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
References: <179462.42323.qm@web55204.mail.re4.yahoo.com>
	<E1NNIQn-00068Y-KN@elasmtp-galgo.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
	<4b65c2d70912222219k753cece5l2b161736e5f053d9@mail.gmail.com>
	<E1NNMDr-00043l-5e@elasmtp-masked.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
	<4b65c2d70912230525w5951c5d8h7812dc00d145a9a7@mail.gmail.com>
	<E1NNRv4-00030w-BX@elasmtp-masked.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <d116fbae0912230627pcbb30c4t9e643cea8d6084eb@mail.gmail.com>

I'm with Anny. It's all well to grouse about statistics that offend
our intellectual idealism, but realities are reality. Language goes
with power, and always has, so that a people who do not need to learn
other languages generally will not, whether they are Romans in
Imperial Rome, Brits in London, centre of Empire, or Americans in
Kansas City.  Also, just by increasing the number of literate, you
will not necessarily increase the number of those who read
intellectually. When there is a great diversity of leisure activities
(social networks, rec sports, music, cinema, etc.) it's only natural
that the preponderance of reading will decrease, regardless of
literacy rates.  Inevitably, overall, as literacy increases, much of
that increase will be functional, not intellectual.

I personally do enjoy literature from other languages, and poetry from
other languages, and I do read more than average, but I don't see why
I should be surprised or concerned that I'm a minority.  Then again,
perhaps I expect to be a minority, being a naturalized citizen.

Language goes with power.  In a century Spanish, and even Chinese will
be much more prevalent languages in the US, and to the extent that I
witness the progress of that transformation, I'll enjoy it greatly,
but for now, I don't find compliant about apparent monoculturalism any
more persuasive than complaint from the English-only wingnuts.

--Uche

On Wed, Dec 23, 2009 at 7:10 AM, Mark Weiss <junction at earthlink.net> wrote:
> I was talking about publishing. Really. But it's also the case that
> Americans read on average very few books compared to most other countries
> with reasonable literacy rates. And the latter surely informs the former.
>
> At 08:25 AM 12/23/2009, you wrote:
>>
>> It seems that you and me will never agree on this topic, whichever list we
>> are on. First I did not say English language poetry, I said American poetry.
>> Second I gave you two aspects, a qualitative and a quantitative one.
>> Let me try it in a different way:
>> I know you lived all over the world, how come you live in New York and not
>> in Marseille, just a town that popped up in this moment in my head?
>> Maybe in the States education is better than in Europe, or in South
>> America; maybe people in the States have developed a greater awareness and
>> are able to share in a more sophisticated, refined, spontaneous, naive, ...,
>> way? The Gutenberg site is American, and look at the enormous quantity of
>> material that the States have been sharing for years before the other
>> countries woke up (slowly please and without too much effort...), namely
>> American Universities. Because they are corporations? Who are the
>> corporations? People like you and me that in this moment are typing and
>> reading instead of having lunch, it is already 2.30 here, and I'd better try
>> to get something in my stomach.
>>
>> Take care Mark, you know that I do not have any personal bad feelings
>> against you. It is just that we do not agree on this topic.
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Dec 23, 2009 at 9:05 AM, Mark Weiss
>> <<mailto:junction at earthlink.net>junction at earthlink.net> wrote:
>> It's not just poetry that isn't translated.
>>
>> But really you'd have to argue that English language poetry is so
>> wonderful that there's no reason to be curious about all of the rest of the
>> world's poetry.
>>
>>
>> At 01:19 AM 12/23/2009, you wrote:
>> Yes, American contemporary poetry is much better than the Italian one.
>> Italy peaked in the Cinquecento and since then it has been a steady downhill
>> with very few exceptions. Fernanda Pivano was paid to translate, but about
>> 80-70% of the translations are free gifts to culture, I think this confirms
>> my previous statement.
>> Second explanation, compare the size of Italy with the United States.
>> France? Just about Texas. Imagine people reading only poets coming from
>> Texas, after a while even the most diligent student will be fed fed fed UP.
>>
>> Yours in Xmas...
>> Anny
>>
>> On Wed, Dec 23, 2009 at 5:02 AM, Mark Weiss
>> <<mailto:junction at earthlink.net><mailto:junction at earthlink.net>junction at earthlink.net>
>> wrote:
>> If I remember correctly, Purgatory was the first of his four books. It's
>> wonderful that we finally have it in English, but it's a measure of our
>> insularity that Zurita's been a celebrity in Spain and Latin America for 30
>> years--we're not really talking about a new master. And there's plenty of
>> important and well-known work by poets most English speakers have never
>> heard of left to be discovered.
>>
>> Only 3% of books published in the US are translations from other
>> languages. I think the figure is similar in Britain. In Italy and France
>> it's 30%. Explanations, anyone?
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> Mark
>>
>>
>> At 09:48 PM 12/22/2009, you wrote:
>> Thanks to David Graham for the Neruda poem.
>>
>> I've posted something (very recently/1 maybe 2 days ago) on
>> <<http://buffalo.edu>http://buffalo.edu><http://buffalo.edu>buffalo.edu
>> about the Post Neruda, Raul Zurita, and his 3rd??? volume of poetry entitled
>> PURGATORY. A new master has stepped on 2 the stage.
>>
>>
>> The forward to the english trans by C.D. Wright is remarkable. Zurita,
>> what a poet, what a life.
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> New-Poetry mailing list
>>
>> <mailto:New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu><mailto:New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>>
>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>>
>>
>> Announcing The Whole Island: Six Decades of Cuban Poetry (University of
>> California Press).
>> Forthcoming in November 2009.
>>
>> <<http://go.ucpress.edu/WholeIsland>http://go.ucpress.edu/WholeIsland>http://go.ucpress.edu/WholeIsland
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> New-Poetry mailing list
>>
>> <mailto:New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu><mailto:New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>>
>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Anny Ballardini
>>
>> <<http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/>http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/>http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
>>
>>
>> <http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome>http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
>>
>> <http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078><http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078>http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078
>>
>> http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html
>> I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing
>> star!
>> Friedrich Nietzsche
>>
>> ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique
>> vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ?
>> Giovenale
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> New-Poetry mailing list
>> <mailto:New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>>
>>
>> Announcing The Whole Island: Six Decades of Cuban Poetry (University of
>> California Press).
>> Forthcoming in November 2009.
>> <http://go.ucpress.edu/WholeIsland>http://go.ucpress.edu/WholeIsland
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> New-Poetry mailing list
>> <mailto:New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Anny Ballardini
>> <http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/>http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
>> http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
>> <http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078>http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078
>> http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html
>> I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing
>> star!
>> Friedrich Nietzsche
>>
>> ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique
>> vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ?
>> Giovenale
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> New-Poetry mailing list
>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
> Announcing The Whole Island: Six Decades of Cuban Poetry (University of
> California Press).
> Forthcoming in November 2009.
> http://go.ucpress.edu/WholeIsland
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>



-- 
Uche Ogbuji                       http://uche.ogbuji.net
Founding Partner, Zepheira        http://zepheira.com
Linked-in profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/ucheogbuji
Articles: http://uche.ogbuji.net/tech/publications/
TNB: http://www.thenervousbreakdown.com/author/uogbuji/
Friendfeed: http://friendfeed.com/uche
Twitter: http://twitter.com/uogbuji
http://www.google.com/profiles/uche.ogbuji



From junction at earthlink.net  Wed Dec 23 10:07:28 2009
From: junction at earthlink.net (Mark Weiss)
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 2009 10:07:28 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Neruda/ Raul Zurita
In-Reply-To: <d116fbae0912230627pcbb30c4t9e643cea8d6084eb@mail.gmail.com
 >
References: <179462.42323.qm@web55204.mail.re4.yahoo.com>
	<E1NNIQn-00068Y-KN@elasmtp-galgo.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
	<4b65c2d70912222219k753cece5l2b161736e5f053d9@mail.gmail.com>
	<E1NNMDr-00043l-5e@elasmtp-masked.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
	<4b65c2d70912230525w5951c5d8h7812dc00d145a9a7@mail.gmail.com>
	<E1NNRv4-00030w-BX@elasmtp-masked.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
	<d116fbae0912230627pcbb30c4t9e643cea8d6084eb@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <E1NNSoX-0003Uq-48@elasmtp-kukur.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

Ignorance then is a virtue that the powerful can 
afford. It's served us well thus far.

But back to our personal needs as poets. The 
topic began as well-deserved amazement at the 
work of Raul Zurita. For the few hundred thousand 
of us who apparently need poetry and lots of it 
(and for whom it's our way into the wider world) 
it ought to be a matter of concern that we only 
get access to poetry from other places, let alone 
other languages, in dribs and drabs and 
belatedly. In the case of Spanish, that wider 
world begins at our border with 200 million 
people (and another 200 million speakers of Portuguese).

At 09:27 AM 12/23/2009, you wrote:
>I'm with Anny. It's all well to grouse about statistics that offend
>our intellectual idealism, but realities are reality. Language goes
>with power, and always has, so that a people who do not need to learn
>other languages generally will not, whether they are Romans in
>Imperial Rome, Brits in London, centre of Empire, or Americans in
>Kansas City.  Also, just by increasing the number of literate, you
>will not necessarily increase the number of those who read
>intellectually. When there is a great diversity of leisure activities
>(social networks, rec sports, music, cinema, etc.) it's only natural
>that the preponderance of reading will decrease, regardless of
>literacy rates.  Inevitably, overall, as literacy increases, much of
>that increase will be functional, not intellectual.
>
>I personally do enjoy literature from other languages, and poetry from
>other languages, and I do read more than average, but I don't see why
>I should be surprised or concerned that I'm a minority.  Then again,
>perhaps I expect to be a minority, being a naturalized citizen.
>
>Language goes with power.  In a century Spanish, and even Chinese will
>be much more prevalent languages in the US, and to the extent that I
>witness the progress of that transformation, I'll enjoy it greatly,
>but for now, I don't find compliant about apparent monoculturalism any
>more persuasive than complaint from the English-only wingnuts.
>
>--Uche
>
>On Wed, Dec 23, 2009 at 7:10 AM, Mark Weiss <junction at earthlink.net> wrote:
> > I was talking about publishing. Really. But it's also the case that
> > Americans read on average very few books compared to most other countries
> > with reasonable literacy rates. And the latter surely informs the former.
> >
> > At 08:25 AM 12/23/2009, you wrote:
> >>
> >> It seems that you and me will never agree on this topic, whichever list we
> >> are on. First I did not say English language 
> poetry, I said American poetry.
> >> Second I gave you two aspects, a qualitative and a quantitative one.
> >> Let me try it in a different way:
> >> I know you lived all over the world, how come you live in New York and not
> >> in Marseille, just a town that popped up in this moment in my head?
> >> Maybe in the States education is better than in Europe, or in South
> >> America; maybe people in the States have developed a greater awareness and
> >> are able to share in a more sophisticated, 
> refined, spontaneous, naive, ...,
> >> way? The Gutenberg site is American, and look at the enormous quantity of
> >> material that the States have been sharing for years before the other
> >> countries woke up (slowly please and without too much effort...), namely
> >> American Universities. Because they are corporations? Who are the
> >> corporations? People like you and me that in this moment are typing and
> >> reading instead of having lunch, it is 
> already 2.30 here, and I'd better try
> >> to get something in my stomach.
> >>
> >> Take care Mark, you know that I do not have any personal bad feelings
> >> against you. It is just that we do not agree on this topic.
> >>
> >>
> >> On Wed, Dec 23, 2009 at 9:05 AM, Mark Weiss
> >> <<mailto:junction at earthlink.net>junction at earthlink.net> wrote:
> >> It's not just poetry that isn't translated.
> >>
> >> But really you'd have to argue that English language poetry is so
> >> wonderful that there's no reason to be 
> curious about all of the rest of the
> >> world's poetry.
> >>
> >>
> >> At 01:19 AM 12/23/2009, you wrote:
> >> Yes, American contemporary poetry is much better than the Italian one.
> >> Italy peaked in the Cinquecento and since 
> then it has been a steady downhill
> >> with very few exceptions. Fernanda Pivano was paid to translate, but about
> >> 80-70% of the translations are free gifts to 
> culture, I think this confirms
> >> my previous statement.
> >> Second explanation, compare the size of Italy with the United States.
> >> France? Just about Texas. Imagine people reading only poets coming from
> >> Texas, after a while even the most diligent 
> student will be fed fed fed UP.
> >>
> >> Yours in Xmas...
> >> Anny
> >>
> >> On Wed, Dec 23, 2009 at 5:02 AM, Mark Weiss
> >> 
> <<mailto:junction at earthlink.net><mailto:junction at earthlink.net>junction at earthlink.net>
> >> wrote:
> >> If I remember correctly, Purgatory was the first of his four books. It's
> >> wonderful that we finally have it in English, but it's a measure of our
> >> insularity that Zurita's been a celebrity in 
> Spain and Latin America for 30
> >> years--we're not really talking about a new master. And there's plenty of
> >> important and well-known work by poets most English speakers have never
> >> heard of left to be discovered.
> >>
> >> Only 3% of books published in the US are translations from other
> >> languages. I think the figure is similar in Britain. In Italy and France
> >> it's 30%. Explanations, anyone?
> >>
> >> Best,
> >>
> >> Mark
> >>
> >>
> >> At 09:48 PM 12/22/2009, you wrote:
> >> Thanks to David Graham for the Neruda poem.
> >>
> >> I've posted something (very recently/1 maybe 2 days ago) on
> >> <<http://buffalo.edu>http://buffalo.edu><http://buffalo.edu>buffalo.edu
> >> about the Post Neruda, Raul Zurita, and his 
> 3rd??? volume of poetry entitled
> >> PURGATORY. A new master has stepped on 2 the stage.
> >>
> >>
> >> The forward to the english trans by C.D. Wright is remarkable. Zurita,
> >> what a poet, what a life.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> New-Poetry mailing list
> >>
> >> 
> <mailto:New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu><mailto:New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> >>
> >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
> >>
> >>
> >> Announcing The Whole Island: Six Decades of Cuban Poetry (University of
> >> California Press).
> >> Forthcoming in November 2009.
> >>
> >> 
> <<http://go.ucpress.edu/WholeIsland>http://go.ucpress.edu/WholeIsland>http://go.ucpress.edu/WholeIsland
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> New-Poetry mailing list
> >>
> >> 
> <mailto:New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu><mailto:New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> >>
> >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Anny Ballardini
> >>
> >> 
> <<http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/>http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/>http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
> >>
> >>
> >> 
> <http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome>http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
> >>
> >> 
> <http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078><http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078>http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078
> >>
> >> http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html
> >> I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing
> >> star!
> >> Friedrich Nietzsche
> >>
> >> ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique
> >> vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ?
> >> Giovenale
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> New-Poetry mailing list
> >> <mailto:New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
> >>
> >>
> >> Announcing The Whole Island: Six Decades of Cuban Poetry (University of
> >> California Press).
> >> Forthcoming in November 2009.
> >> <http://go.ucpress.edu/WholeIsland>http://go.ucpress.edu/WholeIsland
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> New-Poetry mailing list
> >> <mailto:New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Anny Ballardini
> >> <http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/>http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
> >> http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
> >> <http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078>http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078
> >> http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html
> >> I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing
> >> star!
> >> Friedrich Nietzsche
> >>
> >> ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique
> >> vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ?
> >> Giovenale
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> New-Poetry mailing list
> >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
> >
> > Announcing The Whole Island: Six Decades of Cuban Poetry (University of
> > California Press).
> > Forthcoming in November 2009.
> > http://go.ucpress.edu/WholeIsland
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > New-Poetry mailing list
> > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
> >
>
>
>
>--
>Uche Ogbuji                       http://uche.ogbuji.net
>Founding Partner, Zepheira        http://zepheira.com
>Linked-in profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/ucheogbuji
>Articles: http://uche.ogbuji.net/tech/publications/
>TNB: http://www.thenervousbreakdown.com/author/uogbuji/
>Friendfeed: http://friendfeed.com/uche
>Twitter: http://twitter.com/uogbuji
>http://www.google.com/profiles/uche.ogbuji
>
>_______________________________________________
>New-Poetry mailing list
>New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry

Announcing The Whole Island: Six Decades of Cuban 
Poetry (University of California Press).
Forthcoming in November 2009.
http://go.ucpress.edu/WholeIsland






From jforjames at aol.com  Wed Dec 23 11:11:25 2009
From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 2009 11:11:25 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Rejoicing: New and Collected Poems, Stanley Moss
Message-ID: <8CC5201B62AE53E-15F8-28756@webmail-d077.sysops.aol.com>


http://www.tabletmag.com/arts-and-culture/books/22761/the-joke%e2%80%99s-on-god/

In Rejoicing: New and Collected Poems, Stanley Moss?s recently published collection, Moss quotes Baudelaire?s sly aphorism: ?God is the sole being who has no need to exist in order to reign.? For more than 40 years, Moss has been addressing that sole being without worrying whether He exists or not.

The 84-year-old poet (who is also the founder of the non-profit Sheep Meadow Press, which has published Yehuda Amichai, Peter Cole, and many other renowned poets) takes on God in a number of ways and in a number of moods

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From barry.spacks at verizon.net  Wed Dec 23 13:54:04 2009
From: barry.spacks at verizon.net (Barry Spacks)
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 2009 10:54:04 -0800
Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Becky Foust
In-Reply-To: <200912231700.nBNH05DO001237@wiz.cath.vt.edu>
References: <200912231700.nBNH05DO001237@wiz.cath.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <71542BC3-78B7-4927-9878-52D2A28483D0@verizon.net>


On Dec 23, 2009, at 9:00 AM, William Slaughter of MUDLARK wrote:
>
> New and On View: Mudlark Flash No. 52 (2009)
>
> Bee Fugue | Poem by Rebecca Foust | Images by Lorna Stevens
>
> Bee Fugue is from God, Seed, a full length book collaboration between
> poet Rebecca Foust and artist Lorna Stevens that will be published in
> 2010 by Tebot Bach. Foust's book, All That Gorgeous, Pitiless
> Song, recently won the Many Mountains Moving Book Award and will be
> released in April 2010. Her chapbooks, Mom's Canoe and Dark Card,
> won the Robert Phillips Prizes in 2007 and 2008.

   I highly recommend that folks have a look. Becky's a major talent.
  We've just arranged for her to teach a mini-course here at UCSB
  in March when she comes for a reading. Those near Santa
  Barbara might want to put that reading date down, March 3rd,
  Wednesday, 4 to 5 at the Old Little Theatre, College of
  Creative Studies, UCSB.

  Poetry power -- such a wonder!

Barry
>



From jforjames at aol.com  Wed Dec 23 14:42:49 2009
From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 2009 14:42:49 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Biespiel: Best Poetry of the Year  
Message-ID: <8CC521F3E832B31-335C-11C9C@webmail-m066.sysops.aol.com>


http://blogs.wweek.com/news/2009/12/22/local-author-david-biespiel-wins-best-poetry-of-the-year-award/

David Biespiel, a beloved Portland-based poet and teacher, has just been awarded the Best Poetry of the Year by The Poetry Foundation. His new book of poems, The Book of Men and Women, explores the remorseful emotions of regret, longing, and loss through the complex relationships between members of the opposite gender.

Biespiel, who has been writing for much of his life, founded the independent writing studio The Attic in Southeast Portland in 1999. Still serving as its director, Biespiel also teaches weekly workshops at The Attic for students of all ages. He was named the editor of Poetry Northwest in 2005, a role he only just resigned from. (Read his resignation poem here.)

When Northwest poet Sherman Alexie sold out at Wordstock this summer, we wondered. When Portland poet Matthew Dickman won the coveted Tufts Poetry Award this fall, we were reminded. And now it looks as if our suspicions are confirmed: Portland is the new Mecca of American Poetry.

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From Rsgwynn1 at cs.com  Wed Dec 23 14:53:37 2009
From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com (Rsgwynn1 at cs.com)
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 2009 14:53:37 EST
Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Becky Foust
Message-ID: <d0b.616b2edb.3863cf41@cs.com>

In a message dated 12/23/2009 12:54:25 PM Central Standard Time, 
barry.spacks at verizon.net writes: 
> I highly recommend that folks have a look. Becky's a major talent.
>   We've just arranged for her to teach a mini-course here at UCSB
>   in March when she comes for a reading. Those near Santa
>   Barbara might want to put that reading date down, March 3rd,
>   Wednesday, 4 to 5 at the Old Little Theatre, College of
>   Creative Studies, UCSB.
> 
>   Poetry power -- such a wonder!

I second that emotion.  Becky read here at Lamar last month.  We'll be 
hearing a lot about her in the future.
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From anny.ballardini at gmail.com  Wed Dec 23 15:49:11 2009
From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 2009 21:49:11 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] Elliott: "American Literary History in a New Key"
Message-ID: <4b65c2d70912231249i1df79402w23e88616fc48c195@mail.gmail.com>

AMERICAN STUDIES SYMPOSIUM - SALZBURG GLOBAL SEMINAR SCHLOSS
LEOPOLDSKRON, SALZBURG, AUSTRIA

Friday, September 24 to Tuesday, September 28, 2010 To Honor Emory
Elliott: "American Literary History in a New Key"

Organized by the Salzburg Seminar American Studies Alumni Association
(SSASAA), and co-sponsored by the European Association for American
Studies (EAAS), the symposium is open to alumni of the Salzburg Global
Seminar as well as other individuals working in the field of American
literature. Most participants will be academics from a wide variety of
countries around the world. The program will consist of theme-based
discussion groups and multiple opportunities for dialogue, as well as
presentations and panels by distinguished American Studies scholars. All
activities will take place at the historic Schloss Leopoldskron, in
Salzburg, Austria, and the adjacent Meierhof, where participants will be
housed. For further information about becoming a symposium participant,
please contact symposium director Ms. Marty Gecek,
mgecek at SalzburgGlobal.org.

Description:
Emory Elliott's career both spanned and helped define the changes in the
literary canon and in the ways we approach cultural texts that have
characterized American studies during these years before and after the
turn of the 21st century. When Emory went to college, a book like 12
American Authors was standard for courses on American literature. Today,
an American literature anthology will have as many as 94 authors in its
first volume; apart from texts deriving from tribal origins. Then, we
focused almost entirely on the formal qualities-structure, metaphor,
irony - of  a discreet number of works. Today, we think about the world
from which texts emerged and to which they spoke, and how they speak
differently to people now, differently situated as we are. Then, we read
almost exclusively white and almost all male authors: Hawthorne, James,
Hemingway; today, we read a rainbow spectrum of writers from the four
corners of the globe: Bharati Mukherjee, Francisco Goldman, Maxine Hong
Kingston, Naguib Mahfouz. And today's writers, critics, and teachers,
encouraged by the example of intellectual leaders like Emory Elliott,
deal with subjects that range from borderlands to imperialism, from the
performance of gender to the shape of the book, from the "problem of the
color line" to the quest for indigenous nationality.

This symposium not only celebrates Emory Elliott's life and work. It
gives us an opportunity to consider where American literary history is
now, a decade into the 21st century, and where the study of culture
might be heading in a world threatened by environmental degradation and
wild disparities in wealth, shadowed by menacing changes in educational
institutions, and marked by the transnational flow of money, people, and
cultures. We cannot write tomorrow's books today, but we will bring to
bear on the future of American literary study the powerful development
of new ideas about ecocriticism, gender and critical race studies,
globalization and immigration shock on how we write and think about the
literature of the past and to come.

Co-Chairs: Paul Lauter, Trinity College and Ron Clifton, Stetson
University

Speakers/Panelists:

Heinz Ickstadt, Professor Emeritus, Kennedy Institute, Free University
Berlin; former President, European Association for American Studies

Amy Kaplan, University of Pennsylvania; former President, American
Studies Association

Paul Lauter, Trinity College, Hartford, CT; former President, American
Studies Association

Panel organized by the European Association of American Studies
  Susan Castillo, King's College London
  Martin Heusser, University of Zurich
  Stephen Matterson, Trinity College Dublin



-- 
Anny Ballardini
http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078
http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html
I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing
star!
Friedrich Nietzsche

? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique
vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ?
Giovenale
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From anny.ballardini at gmail.com  Wed Dec 23 15:58:41 2009
From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 2009 21:58:41 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] Galatea Resurrects by Eileen Tabios
Message-ID: <4b65c2d70912231258h4a85927dib583d1b9387953dc@mail.gmail.com>

with a review of my Ghost Dance in 33 Movements by Jeff Harrison:

*GALATEA RESURRECTION #13
*Dec. 22, 2009

*EDITOR?S INTRODUCTION*
*By Eileen Tabios*<http://galatearesurrection13.blogspot.com/2009/12/editors-introduction.html>


*NEW REVIEWS*
Crg Hill reviews *DICK OF THE DEAD
*<http://galatearesurrection13.blogspot.com/2009/12/dick-of-dead-by-rachel-loden.html>by
Rachel Loden

Patrick James Dunagan reviews *YOUR WILDERNESS & MINE
*<http://galatearesurrection13.blogspot.com/2009/12/your-wilderness-mine-by-david-highsmith.html>by
David Highsmith

Troy Jollimore reviews *OHIO VIOLENCE
*<http://galatearesurrection13.blogspot.com/2009/12/ohio-violence-by-alison-stine.html>by
Alison Stine

Virginia Konchan reviews *AIM STRAIGHT AT THE FOUNTAIN AND PRESS
VAPORIZE *<http://galatearesurrection13.blogspot.com/2009/12/aim-straight-at-fountain-and-press.html>by
Elizabeth Marie Young

Crg Hill reviews *LANDSCAPES OF DISSENT: GUERRILLA POETRY & PUBLIC
SPACE *<http://galatearesurrection13.blogspot.com/2009/12/landscapes-of-dissent-guerilla-poetry.html>by
Jules Boykoff and Kaia Sand

Thomas Fink reviews *HOUSECAT KUNG FU: STRANGE POEMS FOR WILD CHILDREN
*<http://galatearesurrection13.blogspot.com/2009/12/housecat-kung-fu-by-geoffrey-gatza.html>by
Geoffrey Gatza

Patrick Rosal reviews *THE LONG LOST STARTLE
*<http://galatearesurrection13.blogspot.com/2009/12/long-lost-startle-by-joel-toledo.html>by
Joel Toledo

Emong de Borja reviews *YOU ARE HERE
*<http://galatearesurrection13.blogspot.com/2009/12/you-are-here-by-mabi-david.html>by
Mabi David

Denise Dooley reviews *ELDERS SERIES
#3*<http://galatearesurrection13.blogspot.com/2009/12/elders-series-3-by-chris-kraus-and-tisa.html>by
Chris Kraus and Tisa Bryant

Jade Hudson reviews *COLLAPSIBLE POETICS THEATER
*<http://galatearesurrection13.blogspot.com/2009/12/collapsible-poetics-theater-by-rodrigo.html>by
Rodrigo Toscano

Eileen Tabios engages *ANALFABETO / AN ALPHABET
*<http://galatearesurrection13.blogspot.com/2009/12/analfabeto-alphabet-by-ellen-baxt.html>by
Ellen Baxt

Denise Dooley reviews* CLASSIFICATION OF A SPIT STAIN
*<http://galatearesurrection13.blogspot.com/2009/12/classification-of-spit-stain-by-ellie.html>by
Ellie Ga

Rebecca Loudon reviews *WITH DEER
*<http://galatearesurrection13.blogspot.com/2009/12/with-deer-by-aase-berg-trans-by_21.html>by
Aase Berg, Translated by Johannes G?ransson

Gabriel Lovatt reviews *WITH DEER
*<http://galatearesurrection13.blogspot.com/2009/12/with-deer-by-aase-berg-trans-by.html>by
Aase Berg, translated by Johannes G?ransson

Tom Hibbard reviews *CHOOSE, SELECTED POEMS
*<http://galatearesurrection13.blogspot.com/2009/12/choose-selected-poems-by-michael.html>by
Michael Rothenberg

Amanda Reynolds reviews *THE LOST COUNTRY OF SIGHT
*<http://galatearesurrection13.blogspot.com/2009/12/lost-country-of-sight-by-neil-aitken.html>by
Neil Aitken

Virginia Konchan reviews *IDENTITY THEFT
*<http://galatearesurrection13.blogspot.com/2009/12/identity-theft-by-catherine-daly.html>by
Catherine Daly

Kristin Berkey-Abbott reviews *TORCHED VERSE ENDS
*<http://galatearesurrection13.blogspot.com/2009/12/torched-verse-ends-by-steven-d.html>by
Steven D. Schroeder

Eileen Tabios engages *WATER THE MOON
*<http://galatearesurrection13.blogspot.com/2009/12/water-moon-by-fiona-sze-lorraine.html>by
Fiona Sze-Lorraine

Virginia Konchan reviews *ZERO READERSHIP, AN EPIC
*<http://galatearesurrection13.blogspot.com/2009/12/zero-readership-epic-by-filip.html>by
Filip Marinovich

Nicholas T. Spatafora reviews *MANHATTAN MAN AND OTHER POEMS
*<http://galatearesurrection13.blogspot.com/2009/12/manhattan-man-and-other-poems-by-jack.html>by
Jack Lynch

John Bloomberg-Rissman reviews *NAVIGATE, AMELIA EARHARTS? LETTERS TO HOME and
CADAVER DOGS*<http://galatearesurrection13.blogspot.com/2009/12/2-books-by-rebecca-loudon.htm/>,
both by Rebecca Loudon

Eileen Tabios engages *HI HIGHER HYPERBOLE
<http://galatearesurrection13.blogspot.com/2009/12/hi-higher-hyperbole-by-nicholas-manning.html>
*by Nicholas Manning

Amanda Reynolds reviews *TO THE BONE
*<http://galatearesurrection13.blogspot.com/2009/12/to-bone-by-sebastian-agudelo.html>by
Sebastian Agudelo

Virginia Konchan reviews *THE BOATLOADS
*<http://galatearesurrection13.blogspot.com/2009/12/boatloads-by-dan-albergotti.html>by
Dan Albergotti

Crg Hill reviews *CARAMBOLES
*<http://galatearesurrection13.blogspot.com/2009/12/caramboles-by-alexander-dickow.html>by
Alexander Dickow

Jim McCrary engages *A MAN ABOUT TOWN
*<http://galatearesurrection13.blogspot.com/2009/12/man-about-town-by-robert-j-baumann.html>by
Robert J. Baumann

Kristin Berkey-Abbott reviews *LETTERS TO POETS: CONVERSATIONS ABOUT
POETICS, POLITICS, AND
COMMUNITY*<http://galatearesurrection13.blogspot.com/2009/12/letters-to-poets-conversations-about.html>,
Eds. Jennifer Firestone and Dana Teen Lomax

James Sanders reviews *PLAYING WITH WORDS: THE SPOKEN WORD IN ARTISTIC
PRACTICE*<http://galatearesurrection13.blogspot.com/2009/12/playing-with-words-spoken-word-in.html>,
Ed. Cathy Lane

John Bloomberg-Rissman reviews *SUPER 8 and HALLUCINATING CALIFORNIA
*<http://galatearesurrection13.blogspot.com/2009/12/two-collaborations-by-richard-lopez.html>by
Richard Lopez and Jonathan Hayes

John Herbert Cunningham reviews *THE PROSODY HANDBOOK: A GUIDE TO POETIC
FORM*<http://galatearesurrection13.blogspot.com/2009/12/prosody-handbook-guide-to-poetic-form.html>by
Robert Beum and Karl Shapiro

Jeroen Nieuwland reviews *POETRY AND CULTURAL STUDIES: A
READER*<http://galatearesurrection13.blogspot.com/2009/12/poetry-and-cultural-studies-reader-eds.html>,
Eds. Maria Damon and Ira Livingston

Jon Curley reviews *TERRA LUCIDA
*<http://galatearesurrection13.blogspot.com/2009/12/terra-lucida-by-joseph-donahue.html>by
Joseph Donahue

Dana Ward reviews *WOW WOW WOW WOW
<http://galatearesurrection13.blogspot.com/2009/12/wow-wow-wow-wow-by-kevin-killian.html>
*by Kevin Killian

Fiona Sze-Lorrain reviews *ONE AND TWENTY
*<http://galatearesurrection13.blogspot.com/2009/12/one-and-twenty-by-paavo-haavikko.html>by
Paavo Haavikko, Trans. By Anselm Hollo

Virginia Konchan reviews *TUNED DROVES
*<http://galatearesurrection13.blogspot.com/2009/12/tuned-droves-by-eric-baus.html>by
Eric Baus

Jeff Harrison reviews *GHOST DANCE IN 33 MOVEMENTS
*<http://galatearesurrection13.blogspot.com/2009/12/ghost-dance-in-33-movements-by-anny.html>by
Anny Ballardini

Eileen Tabios engages *TRUST
*<http://galatearesurrection13.blogspot.com/2009/12/trust-by-liz-waldner.html>by
Liz Waldner

Lisa Mahle-Grisez reviews *EROS & (FILL IN THE
BLANK)*<http://galatearesurrection13.blogspot.com/2009/12/eros-fill-in-blank-by-charles-freeland.html>by
Charles Freeland

Jon Curley reviews *TRUE CRIME
*<http://galatearesurrection13.blogspot.com/2009/12/true-crime-by-donna-de-la-perriere.html>by
Donna de la Perri?re

Virginia Konchan reviews *INTERVENING ABSENCE
*<http://galatearesurrection13.blogspot.com/2009/12/intervening-absence-by-carrie-olivia.html>by
Carrie Olivia Adams

James Stotts reviews *THE BRITTLE AGE AND RETURNING UPLAND
*<http://galatearesurrection13.blogspot.com/2009/12/brittle-age-and-returning-upland-by.html>by
Ren? Char, translated by Gustaf Sobin

Virginia Konchan reviews *CLOSE CALLS WITH NONSENSE
*<http://galatearesurrection13.blogspot.com/2009/12/close-calls-with-nonsense-by-stephen.html>by
Stephen Burt

Jim McCrary reviews *HOUSE ORGAN SUMMER 2009 edited by Kenneth Warren; RUGH
STUFFby Steve Tills; HYPERGLOSSIA by Stacy Szymaszek; SOME SPECULATIONS
AROUND GEORGE OPPEN?S PAROUSIA by Rob Halpern; WELL MEANING WHITE GIRL by
Alli Warren; SPRUNG FORMAL LITERARY MAGAZINE; GET THE FUCK BACK INTO THAT
BURNING PLANE by Lawrence Griffin; and MY DAY WALKING FROM MT. TABOR TO THE
ZOO and MY DAY by James Yeary and illustrated by Nate
Orton*<http://galatearesurrection13.blogspot.com/2009/12/publications-written-or-edited-by.html>

Virginia Konchan reviews *HAVE A GOOD ONE
*<http://galatearesurrection13.blogspot.com/2009/12/have-good-one-by-anselm-berrigan.html>Anselm
Berrigan

John Bloomberg-Rissman reviews *THE METHOD
*<http://galatearesurrection13.blogspot.com/2009/12/method-by-sasha-steensen.html>by
Sasha Steensen


*THE CRITIC WRITES POEMS*
*Virginia Konchan*<http://galatearesurrection13.blogspot.com/2009/12/critic-writes-poems.html>


*FEATURED POET*
*Tom Beckett interviews Rebecca
Loudon*<http://galatearesurrection13.blogspot.com/2009/12/featured-poet-rebecca-loudon.html>


*FEATURE ARTICLE*
*"?That all of us may write better?: Gatekeeping, the Literary
Establishment, and Marianne Moore as Editor of The Dial? by Kristina Marie
Darling*<http://galatearesurrection13.blogspot.com/2009/12/feature-article-that-all-of-us-may.html>


*FEATURE ARTICLE*
*On the Philippines' 2009 National Artist
Awards*<http://galatearesurrection13.blogspot.com/2009/12/feature-article-on-philippines-2009.html>


*FROM OFFLINE TO ONLINE: REPRINTED REVIEW*
Martin Edmonds reviews *PELICAN DREAMING: POEMS 1959-2008
<http://galatearesurrection13.blogspot.com/2009/12/pelican-dreaming-poems-1959-2008-by.html>
*by Mark Young


*ADVERTISEMENT*
*Tiny Poetry Books Feeding the
World...Literally!*<http://galatearesurrection11.blogspot.com/2008/12/tiny-books-of-poetry-feeding-world.html>


*BACK COVER*
*Yeah, yeah, Happy Holidays?am
exhausted!*<http://galatearesurrection13.blogspot.com/2009/12/back-cover.html>




-- 
Anny Ballardini
http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078
http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html
I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing
star!
Friedrich Nietzsche

? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique
vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ?
Giovenale
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From Opus40-01 at opus40.org  Wed Dec 23 18:34:09 2009
From: Opus40-01 at opus40.org (TheOldMole)
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 2009 18:34:09 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Galatea Resurrects by Eileen Tabios
In-Reply-To: <4b65c2d70912231258h4a85927dib583d1b9387953dc@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4b65c2d70912231258h4a85927dib583d1b9387953dc@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4B32A8F1.9070504@opus40.org>

Congratulations Anny!

Anny Ballardini wrote:
> with a review of my Ghost Dance in 33 Movements by Jeff Harrison:
>
> /*GALATEA RESURRECTION #13
> */Dec. 22, 2009
>
> *EDITOR?S INTRODUCTION*
> *By Eileen Tabios* 
> <http://galatearesurrection13.blogspot.com/2009/12/editors-introduction.html>
>
>
> *NEW REVIEWS*
> Crg Hill reviews */DICK OF THE DEAD /* 
> <http://galatearesurrection13.blogspot.com/2009/12/dick-of-dead-by-rachel-loden.html>by 
> Rachel Loden
>
> Patrick James Dunagan reviews */YOUR WILDERNESS & MINE /* 
> <http://galatearesurrection13.blogspot.com/2009/12/your-wilderness-mine-by-david-highsmith.html>by 
> David Highsmith
>
> Troy Jollimore reviews */OHIO VIOLENCE /* 
> <http://galatearesurrection13.blogspot.com/2009/12/ohio-violence-by-alison-stine.html>by 
> Alison Stine
>
> Virginia Konchan reviews */AIM STRAIGHT AT THE FOUNTAIN AND PRESS 
> VAPORIZE /* 
> <http://galatearesurrection13.blogspot.com/2009/12/aim-straight-at-fountain-and-press.html>by 
> Elizabeth Marie Young
>
> Crg Hill reviews */LANDSCAPES OF DISSENT: GUERRILLA POETRY & PUBLIC 
> SPACE /* 
> <http://galatearesurrection13.blogspot.com/2009/12/landscapes-of-dissent-guerilla-poetry.html>by 
> Jules Boykoff and Kaia Sand
>
> Thomas Fink reviews */HOUSECAT KUNG FU: STRANGE POEMS FOR WILD 
> CHILDREN /* 
> <http://galatearesurrection13.blogspot.com/2009/12/housecat-kung-fu-by-geoffrey-gatza.html>by 
> Geoffrey Gatza
>
> Patrick Rosal reviews */THE LONG LOST STARTLE /* 
> <http://galatearesurrection13.blogspot.com/2009/12/long-lost-startle-by-joel-toledo.html>by 
> Joel Toledo
>
> Emong de Borja reviews */YOU ARE HERE /* 
> <http://galatearesurrection13.blogspot.com/2009/12/you-are-here-by-mabi-david.html>by 
> Mabi David
>
> Denise Dooley reviews */ELDERS SERIES #3/* 
> <http://galatearesurrection13.blogspot.com/2009/12/elders-series-3-by-chris-kraus-and-tisa.html> 
> by Chris Kraus and Tisa Bryant
>
> Jade Hudson reviews */COLLAPSIBLE POETICS THEATER /* 
> <http://galatearesurrection13.blogspot.com/2009/12/collapsible-poetics-theater-by-rodrigo.html>by 
> Rodrigo Toscano
>
> Eileen Tabios engages */ANALFABETO / AN ALPHABET /* 
> <http://galatearesurrection13.blogspot.com/2009/12/analfabeto-alphabet-by-ellen-baxt.html>by 
> Ellen Baxt
>
> Denise Dooley reviews*/ CLASSIFICATION OF A SPIT STAIN /* 
> <http://galatearesurrection13.blogspot.com/2009/12/classification-of-spit-stain-by-ellie.html>by 
> Ellie Ga
>
> Rebecca Loudon reviews */WITH DEER /* 
> <http://galatearesurrection13.blogspot.com/2009/12/with-deer-by-aase-berg-trans-by_21.html>by 
> Aase Berg, Translated by Johannes G?ransson
>
> Gabriel Lovatt reviews */WITH DEER /* 
> <http://galatearesurrection13.blogspot.com/2009/12/with-deer-by-aase-berg-trans-by.html>by 
> Aase Berg, translated by Johannes G?ransson
>
> Tom Hibbard reviews */CHOOSE, SELECTED POEMS /* 
> <http://galatearesurrection13.blogspot.com/2009/12/choose-selected-poems-by-michael.html>by 
> Michael Rothenberg
>
> Amanda Reynolds reviews */THE LOST COUNTRY OF SIGHT /* 
> <http://galatearesurrection13.blogspot.com/2009/12/lost-country-of-sight-by-neil-aitken.html>by 
> Neil Aitken
>
> Virginia Konchan reviews */IDENTITY THEFT /* 
> <http://galatearesurrection13.blogspot.com/2009/12/identity-theft-by-catherine-daly.html>by 
> Catherine Daly
>
> Kristin Berkey-Abbott reviews */TORCHED VERSE ENDS /* 
> <http://galatearesurrection13.blogspot.com/2009/12/torched-verse-ends-by-steven-d.html>by 
> Steven D. Schroeder
>
> Eileen Tabios engages */WATER THE MOON /* 
> <http://galatearesurrection13.blogspot.com/2009/12/water-moon-by-fiona-sze-lorraine.html>by 
> Fiona Sze-Lorraine
>
> Virginia Konchan reviews */ZERO READERSHIP, AN EPIC /* 
> <http://galatearesurrection13.blogspot.com/2009/12/zero-readership-epic-by-filip.html>by 
> Filip Marinovich
>
> Nicholas T. Spatafora reviews */MANHATTAN MAN AND OTHER POEMS /* 
> <http://galatearesurrection13.blogspot.com/2009/12/manhattan-man-and-other-poems-by-jack.html>by 
> Jack Lynch
>
> John Bloomberg-Rissman reviews */NAVIGATE, AMELIA EARHARTS? LETTERS TO 
> HOME /and /CADAVER DOGS/* 
> <http://galatearesurrection13.blogspot.com/2009/12/2-books-by-rebecca-loudon.htm/>, 
> both by Rebecca Loudon
>
> Eileen Tabios engages /*HI HIGHER HYPERBOLE * 
> <http://galatearesurrection13.blogspot.com/2009/12/hi-higher-hyperbole-by-nicholas-manning.html>/by 
> Nicholas Manning
>
> Amanda Reynolds reviews */TO THE BONE /* 
> <http://galatearesurrection13.blogspot.com/2009/12/to-bone-by-sebastian-agudelo.html>by 
> Sebastian Agudelo
>
> Virginia Konchan reviews */THE BOATLOADS /* 
> <http://galatearesurrection13.blogspot.com/2009/12/boatloads-by-dan-albergotti.html>by 
> Dan Albergotti
>
> Crg Hill reviews */CARAMBOLES /* 
> <http://galatearesurrection13.blogspot.com/2009/12/caramboles-by-alexander-dickow.html>by 
> Alexander Dickow
>
> Jim McCrary engages */A MAN ABOUT TOWN /* 
> <http://galatearesurrection13.blogspot.com/2009/12/man-about-town-by-robert-j-baumann.html>by 
> Robert J. Baumann
>
> Kristin Berkey-Abbott reviews */LETTERS TO POETS: CONVERSATIONS ABOUT 
> POETICS, POLITICS, AND COMMUNITY/* 
> <http://galatearesurrection13.blogspot.com/2009/12/letters-to-poets-conversations-about.html>, 
> Eds. Jennifer Firestone and Dana Teen Lomax
>
> James Sanders reviews */PLAYING WITH WORDS: THE SPOKEN WORD IN 
> ARTISTIC PRACTICE/* 
> <http://galatearesurrection13.blogspot.com/2009/12/playing-with-words-spoken-word-in.html>, 
> Ed. Cathy Lane
>
> John Bloomberg-Rissman reviews */SUPER 8/ and /HALLUCINATING 
> CALIFORNIA /* 
> <http://galatearesurrection13.blogspot.com/2009/12/two-collaborations-by-richard-lopez.html>by 
> Richard Lopez and Jonathan Hayes
>
> John Herbert Cunningham reviews */THE PROSODY HANDBOOK: A GUIDE TO 
> POETIC FORM/* 
> <http://galatearesurrection13.blogspot.com/2009/12/prosody-handbook-guide-to-poetic-form.html> 
> by Robert Beum and Karl Shapiro
>
> Jeroen Nieuwland reviews */POETRY AND CULTURAL STUDIES: A READER/* 
> <http://galatearesurrection13.blogspot.com/2009/12/poetry-and-cultural-studies-reader-eds.html>, 
> Eds. Maria Damon and Ira Livingston
>
> Jon Curley reviews */TERRA LUCIDA /* 
> <http://galatearesurrection13.blogspot.com/2009/12/terra-lucida-by-joseph-donahue.html>by 
> Joseph Donahue
>
> Dana Ward reviews /*WOW WOW WOW WOW * 
> <http://galatearesurrection13.blogspot.com/2009/12/wow-wow-wow-wow-by-kevin-killian.html>/by 
> Kevin Killian
>
> Fiona Sze-Lorrain reviews */ONE AND TWENTY /* 
> <http://galatearesurrection13.blogspot.com/2009/12/one-and-twenty-by-paavo-haavikko.html>by 
> Paavo Haavikko, Trans. By Anselm Hollo
>
> Virginia Konchan reviews */TUNED DROVES /* 
> <http://galatearesurrection13.blogspot.com/2009/12/tuned-droves-by-eric-baus.html>by 
> Eric Baus
>
> Jeff Harrison reviews */GHOST DANCE IN 33 MOVEMENTS /* 
> <http://galatearesurrection13.blogspot.com/2009/12/ghost-dance-in-33-movements-by-anny.html>by 
> Anny Ballardini
>
> Eileen Tabios engages */TRUST /* 
> <http://galatearesurrection13.blogspot.com/2009/12/trust-by-liz-waldner.html>by 
> Liz Waldner
>
> Lisa Mahle-Grisez reviews */EROS & (FILL IN THE BLANK)/* 
> <http://galatearesurrection13.blogspot.com/2009/12/eros-fill-in-blank-by-charles-freeland.html> 
> by Charles Freeland
>
> Jon Curley reviews */TRUE CRIME /* 
> <http://galatearesurrection13.blogspot.com/2009/12/true-crime-by-donna-de-la-perriere.html>by 
> Donna de la Perri?re
>
> Virginia Konchan reviews */INTERVENING ABSENCE /* 
> <http://galatearesurrection13.blogspot.com/2009/12/intervening-absence-by-carrie-olivia.html>by 
> Carrie Olivia Adams
>
> James Stotts reviews */THE BRITTLE AGE AND RETURNING UPLAND /* 
> <http://galatearesurrection13.blogspot.com/2009/12/brittle-age-and-returning-upland-by.html>by 
> Ren? Char, translated by Gustaf Sobin
>
> Virginia Konchan reviews */CLOSE CALLS WITH NONSENSE /* 
> <http://galatearesurrection13.blogspot.com/2009/12/close-calls-with-nonsense-by-stephen.html>by 
> Stephen Burt
>
> Jim McCrary reviews */HOUSE ORGAN SUMMER 2009 /edited by Kenneth 
> Warren; /RUGH STUFF/by Steve Tills; HYPERGLOSSIA by Stacy Szymaszek; 
> /SOME SPECULATIONS AROUND GEORGE OPPEN?S PAROUSIA /by Rob Halpern; 
> /WELL MEANING WHITE GIRL /by Alli Warren; /SPRUNG FORMAL LITERARY 
> MAGAZINE/; /GET THE FUCK BACK INTO THAT BURNING PLANE/ by Lawrence 
> Griffin; and /MY DAY WALKING FROM MT. TABOR TO THE ZOO /and /MY DAY 
> /by James Yeary and illustrated by Nate Orton* 
> <http://galatearesurrection13.blogspot.com/2009/12/publications-written-or-edited-by.html>
>
> Virginia Konchan reviews */HAVE A GOOD ONE /* 
> <http://galatearesurrection13.blogspot.com/2009/12/have-good-one-by-anselm-berrigan.html>Anselm 
> Berrigan
>
> John Bloomberg-Rissman reviews */THE METHOD /* 
> <http://galatearesurrection13.blogspot.com/2009/12/method-by-sasha-steensen.html>by 
> Sasha Steensen
>
>
> *THE CRITIC WRITES POEMS*
> *Virginia Konchan* 
> <http://galatearesurrection13.blogspot.com/2009/12/critic-writes-poems.html>
>
>
> *FEATURED POET*
> *Tom Beckett interviews Rebecca Loudon* 
> <http://galatearesurrection13.blogspot.com/2009/12/featured-poet-rebecca-loudon.html>
>
>
> *FEATURE ARTICLE*
> *"?That all of us may write better?: Gatekeeping, the Literary 
> Establishment, and Marianne Moore as Editor of The Dial? by Kristina 
> Marie Darling* 
> <http://galatearesurrection13.blogspot.com/2009/12/feature-article-that-all-of-us-may.html>
>
>
> *FEATURE ARTICLE*
> *On the Philippines' 2009 National Artist Awards* 
> <http://galatearesurrection13.blogspot.com/2009/12/feature-article-on-philippines-2009.html>
>
>
> *FROM OFFLINE TO ONLINE: REPRINTED REVIEW*
> Martin Edmonds reviews */PELICAN DREAMING: POEMS 1959-2008 
> <http://galatearesurrection13.blogspot.com/2009/12/pelican-dreaming-poems-1959-2008-by.html>/*by 
> Mark Young
>
>
> *ADVERTISEMENT*
> *Tiny Poetry Books Feeding the World...Literally!* 
> <http://galatearesurrection11.blogspot.com/2008/12/tiny-books-of-poetry-feeding-world.html>
>
>
> *BACK COVER*
> *Yeah, yeah, Happy Holidays?am exhausted!* 
> <http://galatearesurrection13.blogspot.com/2009/12/back-cover.html>
>
>
>
>
> -- 
> Anny Ballardini
> http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
> http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
> http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078
> http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html
> I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a 
> dancing star!
> Friedrich Nietzsche
>
> ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique
> vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ?
> Giovenale
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>   

-- 
Tad Richards
Read my NY Writing Careers Examiner column today!
http://www.examiner.com/x-2862-NY-Writing-Careers-Examiner

http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/
http://opusforty.blogspot.com/



From jforjames at aol.com  Wed Dec 23 20:05:28 2009
From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 2009 20:05:28 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] WorldPo: Kailash Vajpeyi 
Message-ID: <8CC524C512AB947-6864-280DD@webmail-m031.sysops.aol.com>


http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Poet-Kailash-Vajpeyi-honoured-with-Sahitya-Akademi-award/articleshow/5371978.cms
Poet Kailash Vajpeyi honoured with Sahitya Akademi award
TIMES NEWS NETWORK & AGENCIES 
24 December 2009, 04:32am 
 
NEW DELHI: Renowned Hindi poet Kailash Vajpeyi has been honoured with the Sahitya Akademi award for his work, Hawa mein hastakshar (Signature in the wind). 

"An honest poet should be devoted to his work because creativity is no commerce. All right thinking persons will agree that poetry needs creative humanistic perspective. In reality, poetry is the sacrifice of the self, an indefinable process of self-cleansing. It is a deep dive, almost a samadhi. 

"Previously the poet used to think that he could change the world but now he has reached the conclusion that poetry makes nothing happen. It is a signature in the wind," the 70-year-old told TOI on phone. 
 

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From jforjames at aol.com  Wed Dec 23 20:36:56 2009
From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 2009 20:36:56 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Neruda/ Raul Zurita
In-Reply-To: <E1NNIQn-00068Y-KN@elasmtp-galgo.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
References: <179462.42323.qm@web55204.mail.re4.yahoo.com>
	<E1NNIQn-00068Y-KN@elasmtp-galgo.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <8CC5250B62BD287-6864-28683@webmail-m031.sysops.aol.com>


Each one save one. That would be good mantra for each major contemporary American poet: Find one poet in another language and try your hand at translating the work; be the champion for that work. I can see C.D. Wright doing that.

I don't know that there is any one reason why we miss some much of the international scene. My take on this issue:

Muchness: There is too much poetry already to keep up with. The vagaries of who gets paid attention to are already too hard to understand.

Middle Kingdom: When there is a great & vast dominion under one's purview, one tends to think of the others as barbarians, not worth one's notice.

Sheer Scale: ceteris paribus, the best poet in Latvia is not the equal of the best poet in Connecticut.

Tranlation Fear: I've heard good poets say they would have 'no way to judge' a poet's work in another language. It's the old idea that poetry is untranslatable become an absolute barrier. They seem not realize that translation means only that, translation: do the best you can do to carry it over, trust the process. (Which is often a mantra in their own working method.)

Spoken boldly by whose fluency is singular, and some might question that.
Finnegan









-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Weiss <junction at earthlink.net>
Sent: Tue, Dec 22, 2009 11:02 pm
Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Neruda/ Raul Zurita


If I remember correctly, Purgatory was the first of his four books. It's wonderful that we finally have it in English, but it's a measure of our insularity that Zurita's been a celebrity in Spain and Latin America for 30 years--we're not really talking about a new master. And there's plenty of important and well-known work by poets most English speakers have never heard of left to be discovered. 
 
Only 3% of books published in the US are translations from other languages. I think the figure is similar in Britain. In Italy and France it's 30%. Explanations, anyone? 
 
Best, 
 
Mark 
 
At 09:48 PM 12/22/2009, you wrote: 
>Thanks to David Graham for the Neruda poem. 
> 
>I've posted something (very recently/1 maybe 2 days ago) on >buffalo.edu about the Post Neruda, Raul Zurita, and his 3rd??? >volume of poetry entitled PURGATORY. A new master has stepped on 2 the stage. 
> 
>The forward to the english trans by C.D. Wright is remarkable. >Zurita, what a poet, what a life. 
> 
> 
> 
>_______________________________________________ 
>New-Poetry mailing list 
>New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu 
>http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry 
 
Announcing The Whole Island: Six Decades of Cuban Poetry (University of California Press). 
Forthcoming in November 2009. 
http://go.ucpress.edu/WholeIsland 
 
 
_______________________________________________ 
New-Poetry mailing list 
New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu 
http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry 

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From uche at ogbuji.net  Wed Dec 23 21:04:10 2009
From: uche at ogbuji.net (Uche Ogbuji)
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 2009 19:04:10 -0700
Subject: [New-Poetry] Neruda/ Raul Zurita
In-Reply-To: <E1NNSoX-0003Uq-48@elasmtp-kukur.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
References: <179462.42323.qm@web55204.mail.re4.yahoo.com>
	<E1NNIQn-00068Y-KN@elasmtp-galgo.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
	<4b65c2d70912222219k753cece5l2b161736e5f053d9@mail.gmail.com>
	<E1NNMDr-00043l-5e@elasmtp-masked.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
	<4b65c2d70912230525w5951c5d8h7812dc00d145a9a7@mail.gmail.com>
	<E1NNRv4-00030w-BX@elasmtp-masked.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
	<d116fbae0912230627pcbb30c4t9e643cea8d6084eb@mail.gmail.com>
	<E1NNSoX-0003Uq-48@elasmtp-kukur.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <d116fbae0912231804o5c84817ctbead550826742174@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Dec 23, 2009 at 8:07 AM, Mark Weiss <junction at earthlink.net> wrote:
> Ignorance then is a virtue that the powerful can afford. It's served us well
> thus far.

You call it ignorance.  Technically, you're right.  But think for a
moment of The Iliad+ Odyssey+Homeric Hymns, or, if you prefer,
Beowulf.  Each are examples of the focus that comes with power.  Is
The Iliad really superior to all the Ithakan, Cretan, Thessalian
praise poetry tradition from which it sprang, or indeed all the
Paionian, Tracian, Dardanian and even Illyrian warrior songs and coda
from which that all flowed.  What happened was that Helelnistic
culture brutally cleared things out, and focused.  Even country
bumpkin Greek dialects such as Thessalian were snubbed, never mind
those damned alien Paionians (who were just the scum spawn of the
ancient Trojan enemy, anyway).  Very, very little survived what you
would call that age of ignorance.  Very few people would We got, e.g.
The Iliad out of it.  Would it be cool on a certain level to get a
flavor of all that mad cacophony?  Of course.  To be fair we'd have a
lot of it still to hand if not for the tragedy at the Library of
Alexandria, but even then, I would guess we'd have no more surviving
variety from that age as one would of the present age through the lens
of American "ignorance".  I mentioned Beowulf because it has a
similarly usurping relationship to countless centuries of Danish,
Norwegian, Swedish, and even Saxon bardic traditions that faded into
the background upon that consolidation in the British isles.

Again, there is romanticism and there is reality.  Not every poetry,
not every tradition, not even every great tradition can be preserved.
Because we're human, political power has an inordinate say in the
choices of preservation.  And yes, I suppose you could say it's served
us well so far.  I do quite enjoy the Iliad.


-- 
Uche Ogbuji                       http://uche.ogbuji.net
Founding Partner, Zepheira        http://zepheira.com
Linked-in profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/ucheogbuji
Articles: http://uche.ogbuji.net/tech/publications/
TNB: http://www.thenervousbreakdown.com/author/uogbuji/
Friendfeed: http://friendfeed.com/uche
Twitter: http://twitter.com/uogbuji
http://www.google.com/profiles/uche.ogbuji


From junction at earthlink.net  Wed Dec 23 22:41:37 2009
From: junction at earthlink.net (Mark Weiss)
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 2009 22:41:37 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Neruda/ Raul Zurita
In-Reply-To: <d116fbae0912231804o5c84817ctbead550826742174@mail.gmail.co
 m>
References: <179462.42323.qm@web55204.mail.re4.yahoo.com>
	<E1NNIQn-00068Y-KN@elasmtp-galgo.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
	<4b65c2d70912222219k753cece5l2b161736e5f053d9@mail.gmail.com>
	<E1NNMDr-00043l-5e@elasmtp-masked.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
	<4b65c2d70912230525w5951c5d8h7812dc00d145a9a7@mail.gmail.com>
	<E1NNRv4-00030w-BX@elasmtp-masked.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
	<d116fbae0912230627pcbb30c4t9e643cea8d6084eb@mail.gmail.com>
	<E1NNSoX-0003Uq-48@elasmtp-kukur.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
	<d116fbae0912231804o5c84817ctbead550826742174@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <E1NNeaM-00073m-E6@elasmtp-scoter.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

You can't possibly believe this. And it's a damned stupid analogy. 
The accidents of time cost everyone a great deal, but in this case 
it's absence of sufficient interest that costs us awareness of most 
of the current varieties of life on earth, even those expressed in 
languages spoken by hundreds of millions.

And by the way, your history is a bit off. Those accidents of time 
have spawned an industry of recovery that began before the Roman 
Empire was cold. Apparently the victors, or better the survivors, did 
care about what had been lost.

Ignorance of other cultures has got us into a series of horrific, 
stupid wars and caused us to damage our own best interests as a 
nation. It's not just about poetry.

While I'm at it, please don't tell me what I would call something. 
You haven't earned that presumptuousness.

Mark

At 09:04 PM 12/23/2009, you wrote:
>On Wed, Dec 23, 2009 at 8:07 AM, Mark Weiss <junction at earthlink.net> wrote:
> > Ignorance then is a virtue that the powerful can afford. It's 
> served us well
> > thus far.
>
>You call it ignorance.  Technically, you're right.  But think for a
>moment of The Iliad+ Odyssey+Homeric Hymns, or, if you prefer,
>Beowulf.  Each are examples of the focus that comes with power.  Is
>The Iliad really superior to all the Ithakan, Cretan, Thessalian
>praise poetry tradition from which it sprang, or indeed all the
>Paionian, Tracian, Dardanian and even Illyrian warrior songs and coda
>from which that all flowed.  What happened was that Helelnistic
>culture brutally cleared things out, and focused.  Even country
>bumpkin Greek dialects such as Thessalian were snubbed, never mind
>those damned alien Paionians (who were just the scum spawn of the
>ancient Trojan enemy, anyway).  Very, very little survived what you
>would call that age of ignorance.  Very few people would We got, e.g.
>The Iliad out of it.  Would it be cool on a certain level to get a
>flavor of all that mad cacophony?  Of course.  To be fair we'd have a
>lot of it still to hand if not for the tragedy at the Library of
>Alexandria, but even then, I would guess we'd have no more surviving
>variety from that age as one would of the present age through the lens
>of American "ignorance".  I mentioned Beowulf because it has a
>similarly usurping relationship to countless centuries of Danish,
>Norwegian, Swedish, and even Saxon bardic traditions that faded into
>the background upon that consolidation in the British isles.
>
>Again, there is romanticism and there is reality.  Not every poetry,
>not every tradition, not even every great tradition can be preserved.
>Because we're human, political power has an inordinate say in the
>choices of preservation.  And yes, I suppose you could say it's served
>us well so far.  I do quite enjoy the Iliad.
>
>
>--
>Uche Ogbuji                       http://uche.ogbuji.net
>Founding Partner, Zepheira        http://zepheira.com
>Linked-in profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/ucheogbuji
>Articles: http://uche.ogbuji.net/tech/publications/
>TNB: http://www.thenervousbreakdown.com/author/uogbuji/
>Friendfeed: http://friendfeed.com/uche
>Twitter: http://twitter.com/uogbuji
>http://www.google.com/profiles/uche.ogbuji
>_______________________________________________
>New-Poetry mailing list
>New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry

Announcing The Whole Island: Six Decades of Cuban Poetry (University 
of California Press).
Forthcoming in November 2009.
http://go.ucpress.edu/WholeIsland





From uche at ogbuji.net  Wed Dec 23 23:17:54 2009
From: uche at ogbuji.net (Uche Ogbuji)
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 2009 21:17:54 -0700
Subject: [New-Poetry] Neruda/ Raul Zurita
In-Reply-To: <E1NNeaM-00073m-E6@elasmtp-scoter.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
References: <179462.42323.qm@web55204.mail.re4.yahoo.com>
	<E1NNIQn-00068Y-KN@elasmtp-galgo.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
	<4b65c2d70912222219k753cece5l2b161736e5f053d9@mail.gmail.com>
	<E1NNMDr-00043l-5e@elasmtp-masked.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
	<4b65c2d70912230525w5951c5d8h7812dc00d145a9a7@mail.gmail.com>
	<E1NNRv4-00030w-BX@elasmtp-masked.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
	<d116fbae0912230627pcbb30c4t9e643cea8d6084eb@mail.gmail.com>
	<E1NNSoX-0003Uq-48@elasmtp-kukur.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
	<d116fbae0912231804o5c84817ctbead550826742174@mail.gmail.com>
	<E1NNeaM-00073m-E6@elasmtp-scoter.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <d116fbae0912232017v27c07641g4b26ebc55f215c08@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Dec 23, 2009 at 8:41 PM, Mark Weiss <junction at earthlink.net> wrote:
> You can't possibly believe this. And it's a damned stupid analogy.

That's fair enough.  I find your reflexive overstatement of
infinitesimal problems damned stupid in itself.


> The
> accidents of time cost everyone a great deal, but in this case it's absence
> of sufficient interest that costs us awareness of most of the current
> varieties of life on earth, even those expressed in languages spoken by
> hundreds of millions.

Apparently you decided not to exercise your vaunted literacy.  I
explicitly set aside the accidents of time in my analysis.


> And by the way, your history is a bit off. Those accidents of time have
> spawned an industry of recovery that began before the Roman Empire was cold.
> Apparently the victors, or better the survivors, did care about what had
> been lost.

Starting with a premise that was not part of my actual argument you
seem to have sojourned into a sprawling field of straw men.  Have fun
knocking them over.


> Ignorance of other cultures has got us into a series of horrific, stupid
> wars and caused us to damage our own best interests as a nation. It's not
> just about poetry.
>
> While I'm at it, please don't tell me what I would call something. You
> haven't earned that presumptuousness.

You haven't earned the right to tell me what I've earned, especially
not starting from your fatuous complaints.

Oh my, aren't we all swimmingly symmetrical?


-- 
Uche Ogbuji                       http://uche.ogbuji.net
Founding Partner, Zepheira        http://zepheira.com
Linked-in profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/ucheogbuji
Articles: http://uche.ogbuji.net/tech/publications/
TNB: http://www.thenervousbreakdown.com/author/uogbuji/
Friendfeed: http://friendfeed.com/uche
Twitter: http://twitter.com/uogbuji
http://www.google.com/profiles/uche.ogbuji


From david.bircumshaw at ntlworld.com  Thu Dec 24 03:06:25 2009
From: david.bircumshaw at ntlworld.com (David Bircumshaw)
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 2009 08:06:25 -0000
Subject: [New-Poetry] Neruda/ Raul Zurita
References: <179462.42323.qm@web55204.mail.re4.yahoo.com><E1NNIQn-00068Y-KN@elasmtp-galgo.atl.sa.earthlink.net><4b65c2d70912222219k753cece5l2b161736e5f053d9@mail.gmail.com><E1NNMDr-00043l-5e@elasmtp-masked.atl.sa.earthlink.net><4b65c2d70912230525w5951c5d8h7812dc00d145a9a7@mail.gmail.com><E1NNRv4-00030w-BX@elasmtp-masked.atl.sa.earthlink.net><d116fbae0912230627pcbb30c4t9e643cea8d6084eb@mail.gmail.com><E1NNSoX-0003Uq-48@elasmtp-kukur.atl.sa.earthlink.net><d116fbae0912231804o5c84817ctbead550826742174@mail.gmail.com>
	<E1NNeaM-00073m-E6@elasmtp-scoter.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <013EADB87ADB4887A8575947567A9D98@SN037832120162>

I'm with Mark on this Uche: 'Beowulf''s sole survival from its context is 
apparent only to us: we have no way of knowing what existed of its genre 
alongside it, there are tantalising references to monks being rebuked for 
their enthusiasm for heroic verse, but these don't suggest 'Beowulf' itself.

David Bircumshaw
Website: http://www.staplednapkin.org.uk
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Mark Weiss" <junction at earthlink.net>
To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &amp;Views" 
<new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
Sent: Thursday, December 24, 2009 3:41 AM
Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Neruda/ Raul Zurita


> You can't possibly believe this. And it's a damned stupid analogy. The 
> accidents of time cost everyone a great deal, but in this case it's 
> absence of sufficient interest that costs us awareness of most of the 
> current varieties of life on earth, even those expressed in languages 
> spoken by hundreds of millions.
>
> And by the way, your history is a bit off. Those accidents of time have 
> spawned an industry of recovery that began before the Roman Empire was 
> cold. Apparently the victors, or better the survivors, did care about what 
> had been lost.
>
> Ignorance of other cultures has got us into a series of horrific, stupid 
> wars and caused us to damage our own best interests as a nation. It's not 
> just about poetry.
>
> While I'm at it, please don't tell me what I would call something. You 
> haven't earned that presumptuousness.
>
> Mark
>
> At 09:04 PM 12/23/2009, you wrote:
>>On Wed, Dec 23, 2009 at 8:07 AM, Mark Weiss <junction at earthlink.net> 
>>wrote:
>> > Ignorance then is a virtue that the powerful can afford. It's
>> served us well
>> > thus far.
>>
>>You call it ignorance.  Technically, you're right.  But think for a
>>moment of The Iliad+ Odyssey+Homeric Hymns, or, if you prefer,
>>Beowulf.  Each are examples of the focus that comes with power.  Is
>>The Iliad really superior to all the Ithakan, Cretan, Thessalian
>>praise poetry tradition from which it sprang, or indeed all the
>>Paionian, Tracian, Dardanian and even Illyrian warrior songs and coda
>>from which that all flowed.  What happened was that Helelnistic
>>culture brutally cleared things out, and focused.  Even country
>>bumpkin Greek dialects such as Thessalian were snubbed, never mind
>>those damned alien Paionians (who were just the scum spawn of the
>>ancient Trojan enemy, anyway).  Very, very little survived what you
>>would call that age of ignorance.  Very few people would We got, e.g.
>>The Iliad out of it.  Would it be cool on a certain level to get a
>>flavor of all that mad cacophony?  Of course.  To be fair we'd have a
>>lot of it still to hand if not for the tragedy at the Library of
>>Alexandria, but even then, I would guess we'd have no more surviving
>>variety from that age as one would of the present age through the lens
>>of American "ignorance".  I mentioned Beowulf because it has a
>>similarly usurping relationship to countless centuries of Danish,
>>Norwegian, Swedish, and even Saxon bardic traditions that faded into
>>the background upon that consolidation in the British isles.
>>
>>Again, there is romanticism and there is reality.  Not every poetry,
>>not every tradition, not even every great tradition can be preserved.
>>Because we're human, political power has an inordinate say in the
>>choices of preservation.  And yes, I suppose you could say it's served
>>us well so far.  I do quite enjoy the Iliad.
>>
>>
>>--
>>Uche Ogbuji                       http://uche.ogbuji.net
>>Founding Partner, Zepheira        http://zepheira.com
>>Linked-in profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/ucheogbuji
>>Articles: http://uche.ogbuji.net/tech/publications/
>>TNB: http://www.thenervousbreakdown.com/author/uogbuji/
>>Friendfeed: http://friendfeed.com/uche
>>Twitter: http://twitter.com/uogbuji
>>http://www.google.com/profiles/uche.ogbuji
>>_______________________________________________
>>New-Poetry mailing list
>>New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>>http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
> Announcing The Whole Island: Six Decades of Cuban Poetry (University of 
> California Press).
> Forthcoming in November 2009.
> http://go.ucpress.edu/WholeIsland
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
> 




From anny.ballardini at gmail.com  Thu Dec 24 04:21:38 2009
From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 2009 10:21:38 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] Neruda/ Raul Zurita
In-Reply-To: <013EADB87ADB4887A8575947567A9D98@SN037832120162>
References: <179462.42323.qm@web55204.mail.re4.yahoo.com>
	<4b65c2d70912222219k753cece5l2b161736e5f053d9@mail.gmail.com>
	<E1NNMDr-00043l-5e@elasmtp-masked.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
	<4b65c2d70912230525w5951c5d8h7812dc00d145a9a7@mail.gmail.com>
	<E1NNRv4-00030w-BX@elasmtp-masked.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
	<d116fbae0912230627pcbb30c4t9e643cea8d6084eb@mail.gmail.com>
	<E1NNSoX-0003Uq-48@elasmtp-kukur.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
	<d116fbae0912231804o5c84817ctbead550826742174@mail.gmail.com>
	<E1NNeaM-00073m-E6@elasmtp-scoter.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
	<013EADB87ADB4887A8575947567A9D98@SN037832120162>
Message-ID: <4b65c2d70912240121h4f54f535i9e860ed3f5c8b213@mail.gmail.com>

I am sorry it got down to almost insulting terms. Uche, thank you for
supporting my thesis. From what I understand, you and me are between
cultures and between languages, and maybe we have a different point of view
from those who are only one mother tongue, although, I am sure, Mark speaks
Spanish fluently.
I think this is the main difference in approaching the problem.
I agree with Mark on knowing more of other people's cultures, the much it
can cost. Claude Levy Strauss hated traveling but he did. I can offer an
example without giving names, fair enough. An artist, who has been
desecrating the American flag with his videos, heard an American couple
comment enthusiastically: "Look, it is the American flag!" If that couple
had known more about the ideological origin of the artist, they would have
spared themselves not only the irony of the artist who talked of the scene
as a joke, but also a misinterpretation that might cost them more at a
social level.



On Thu, Dec 24, 2009 at 9:06 AM, David Bircumshaw <
david.bircumshaw at ntlworld.com> wrote:

> I'm with Mark on this Uche: 'Beowulf''s sole survival from its context is
> apparent only to us: we have no way of knowing what existed of its genre
> alongside it, there are tantalising references to monks being rebuked for
> their enthusiasm for heroic verse, but these don't suggest 'Beowulf' itself.
>
> David Bircumshaw
> Website: http://www.staplednapkin.org.uk
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Weiss" <junction at earthlink.net>
> To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &amp;Views" <
> new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
> Sent: Thursday, December 24, 2009 3:41 AM
>
> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Neruda/ Raul Zurita
>
>
>  You can't possibly believe this. And it's a damned stupid analogy. The
>> accidents of time cost everyone a great deal, but in this case it's absence
>> of sufficient interest that costs us awareness of most of the current
>> varieties of life on earth, even those expressed in languages spoken by
>> hundreds of millions.
>>
>> And by the way, your history is a bit off. Those accidents of time have
>> spawned an industry of recovery that began before the Roman Empire was cold.
>> Apparently the victors, or better the survivors, did care about what had
>> been lost.
>>
>> Ignorance of other cultures has got us into a series of horrific, stupid
>> wars and caused us to damage our own best interests as a nation. It's not
>> just about poetry.
>>
>> While I'm at it, please don't tell me what I would call something. You
>> haven't earned that presumptuousness.
>>
>> Mark
>>
>> At 09:04 PM 12/23/2009, you wrote:
>>
>>> On Wed, Dec 23, 2009 at 8:07 AM, Mark Weiss <junction at earthlink.net>
>>> wrote:
>>> > Ignorance then is a virtue that the powerful can afford. It's
>>> served us well
>>> > thus far.
>>>
>>> You call it ignorance.  Technically, you're right.  But think for a
>>> moment of The Iliad+ Odyssey+Homeric Hymns, or, if you prefer,
>>> Beowulf.  Each are examples of the focus that comes with power.  Is
>>> The Iliad really superior to all the Ithakan, Cretan, Thessalian
>>> praise poetry tradition from which it sprang, or indeed all the
>>> Paionian, Tracian, Dardanian and even Illyrian warrior songs and coda
>>> from which that all flowed.  What happened was that Helelnistic
>>> culture brutally cleared things out, and focused.  Even country
>>> bumpkin Greek dialects such as Thessalian were snubbed, never mind
>>> those damned alien Paionians (who were just the scum spawn of the
>>> ancient Trojan enemy, anyway).  Very, very little survived what you
>>> would call that age of ignorance.  Very few people would We got, e.g.
>>> The Iliad out of it.  Would it be cool on a certain level to get a
>>> flavor of all that mad cacophony?  Of course.  To be fair we'd have a
>>> lot of it still to hand if not for the tragedy at the Library of
>>> Alexandria, but even then, I would guess we'd have no more surviving
>>> variety from that age as one would of the present age through the lens
>>> of American "ignorance".  I mentioned Beowulf because it has a
>>> similarly usurping relationship to countless centuries of Danish,
>>> Norwegian, Swedish, and even Saxon bardic traditions that faded into
>>> the background upon that consolidation in the British isles.
>>>
>>> Again, there is romanticism and there is reality.  Not every poetry,
>>> not every tradition, not even every great tradition can be preserved.
>>> Because we're human, political power has an inordinate say in the
>>> choices of preservation.  And yes, I suppose you could say it's served
>>> us well so far.  I do quite enjoy the Iliad.
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Uche Ogbuji                       http://uche.ogbuji.net
>>> Founding Partner, Zepheira        http://zepheira.com
>>> Linked-in profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/ucheogbuji
>>> Articles: http://uche.ogbuji.net/tech/publications/
>>> TNB: http://www.thenervousbreakdown.com/author/uogbuji/
>>> Friendfeed: http://friendfeed.com/uche
>>> Twitter: http://twitter.com/uogbuji
>>> http://www.google.com/profiles/uche.ogbuji
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> New-Poetry mailing list
>>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>>>
>>
>> Announcing The Whole Island: Six Decades of Cuban Poetry (University of
>> California Press).
>> Forthcoming in November 2009.
>> http://go.ucpress.edu/WholeIsland
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> New-Poetry mailing list
>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>



-- 
Anny Ballardini
http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078
http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html
I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing
star!
Friedrich Nietzsche

? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique
vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ?
Giovenale
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From anny.ballardini at gmail.com  Thu Dec 24 06:07:10 2009
From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 2009 12:07:10 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] Galatea Resurrects by Eileen Tabios
In-Reply-To: <4B32A8F1.9070504@opus40.org>
References: <4b65c2d70912231258h4a85927dib583d1b9387953dc@mail.gmail.com>
	<4B32A8F1.9070504@opus40.org>
Message-ID: <4b65c2d70912240307q6fe3d74fj27d4b1139e562eb0@mail.gmail.com>

Thank You, Tad!

On Thu, Dec 24, 2009 at 12:34 AM, TheOldMole <Opus40-01 at opus40.org> wrote:

> Congratulations Anny!
>
> Anny Ballardini wrote:
>
>> with a review of my Ghost Dance in 33 Movements by Jeff Harrison:
>>
>>
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From anny.ballardini at gmail.com  Thu Dec 24 06:37:34 2009
From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 2009 12:37:34 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] Merry Christmas
Message-ID: <4b65c2d70912240337iebe9933r33d87fb5b48a4cef@mail.gmail.com>

Think on This ... Remember, healing--all healing comes from within. Yet
there is the healing of the physical, there is the healing of the mental,
there is the correct direction from the spirit. Coordinate these and you'll
be whole! But to attempt to do a physical healing through the mental
conditions is the misdirection of the spirit that prompts same . . . But
when the law is coordinated, in spirit, in mind, in body, the entity is
capable of fulfilling the purpose for which it enters a material or physical
experience.

Edgar Cayce Reading 2528-2

Become part of the legacy. <http://www.edgarcayce.org/legacy2001.html>

-- 
Anny Ballardini
http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078
http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html
I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing
star!
Friedrich Nietzsche

? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique
vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ?
Giovenale
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From uche at ogbuji.net  Thu Dec 24 10:43:28 2009
From: uche at ogbuji.net (Uche Ogbuji)
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 2009 08:43:28 -0700
Subject: [New-Poetry] Neruda/ Raul Zurita
In-Reply-To: <013EADB87ADB4887A8575947567A9D98@SN037832120162>
References: <179462.42323.qm@web55204.mail.re4.yahoo.com>
	<4b65c2d70912222219k753cece5l2b161736e5f053d9@mail.gmail.com>
	<E1NNMDr-00043l-5e@elasmtp-masked.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
	<4b65c2d70912230525w5951c5d8h7812dc00d145a9a7@mail.gmail.com>
	<E1NNRv4-00030w-BX@elasmtp-masked.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
	<d116fbae0912230627pcbb30c4t9e643cea8d6084eb@mail.gmail.com>
	<E1NNSoX-0003Uq-48@elasmtp-kukur.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
	<d116fbae0912231804o5c84817ctbead550826742174@mail.gmail.com>
	<E1NNeaM-00073m-E6@elasmtp-scoter.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
	<013EADB87ADB4887A8575947567A9D98@SN037832120162>
Message-ID: <d116fbae0912240743l442d6b12p2c86dbe843c67cfc@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Dec 24, 2009 at 1:06 AM, David Bircumshaw
<david.bircumshaw at ntlworld.com> wrote:
> I'm with Mark on this Uche: 'Beowulf''s sole survival from its context is
> apparent only to us: we have no way of knowing what existed of its genre
> alongside it, there are tantalising references to monks being rebuked for
> their enthusiasm for heroic verse, but these don't suggest 'Beowulf' itself.

As I understand it, a steady drip of archaeological discoveries from
that time does indicates just such a richness in the background.
Preservation requires selection and intent, and the forces behind such
choices were always as fraught with the distortions of power as they
are now.


-- 
Uche Ogbuji                       http://uche.ogbuji.net
Founding Partner, Zepheira        http://zepheira.com
Linked-in profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/ucheogbuji
Articles: http://uche.ogbuji.net/tech/publications/
TNB: http://www.thenervousbreakdown.com/author/uogbuji/
Friendfeed: http://friendfeed.com/uche
Twitter: http://twitter.com/uogbuji
http://www.google.com/profiles/uche.ogbuji


From tony at starve.org  Thu Dec 24 11:01:59 2009
From: tony at starve.org (Tony Trigilio)
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 2009 10:01:59 -0600
Subject: [New-Poetry] Galatea Resurrects by Eileen Tabios
In-Reply-To: <4b65c2d70912231258h4a85927dib583d1b9387953dc@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4b65c2d70912231258h4a85927dib583d1b9387953dc@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4B339077.6090403@starve.org>

Great review, Anny -- congratulations!

Best,
Tony

Anny Ballardini wrote:
> with a review of my Ghost Dance in 33 Movements by Jeff Harrison:
>
> /*GALATEA RESURRECTION #13
> */Dec. 22, 2009
>
> *EDITOR?S INTRODUCTION*
> *By Eileen Tabios* 
> <http://galatearesurrection13.blogspot.com/2009/12/editors-introduction.html>
>
>
> *NEW REVIEWS*
> Crg Hill reviews */DICK OF THE DEAD /* 
> <http://galatearesurrection13.blogspot.com/2009/12/dick-of-dead-by-rachel-loden.html>by 
> Rachel Loden
>
> Patrick James Dunagan reviews */YOUR WILDERNESS & MINE /* 
> <http://galatearesurrection13.blogspot.com/2009/12/your-wilderness-mine-by-david-highsmith.html>by 
> David Highsmith
>
> Troy Jollimore reviews */OHIO VIOLENCE /* 
> <http://galatearesurrection13.blogspot.com/2009/12/ohio-violence-by-alison-stine.html>by 
> Alison Stine
>
> Virginia Konchan reviews */AIM STRAIGHT AT THE FOUNTAIN AND PRESS 
> VAPORIZE /* 
> <http://galatearesurrection13.blogspot.com/2009/12/aim-straight-at-fountain-and-press.html>by 
> Elizabeth Marie Young
>
> Crg Hill reviews */LANDSCAPES OF DISSENT: GUERRILLA POETRY & PUBLIC 
> SPACE /* 
> <http://galatearesurrection13.blogspot.com/2009/12/landscapes-of-dissent-guerilla-poetry.html>by 
> Jules Boykoff and Kaia Sand
>
> Thomas Fink reviews */HOUSECAT KUNG FU: STRANGE POEMS FOR WILD 
> CHILDREN /* 
> <http://galatearesurrection13.blogspot.com/2009/12/housecat-kung-fu-by-geoffrey-gatza.html>by 
> Geoffrey Gatza
>
> Patrick Rosal reviews */THE LONG LOST STARTLE /* 
> <http://galatearesurrection13.blogspot.com/2009/12/long-lost-startle-by-joel-toledo.html>by 
> Joel Toledo
>
> Emong de Borja reviews */YOU ARE HERE /* 
> <http://galatearesurrection13.blogspot.com/2009/12/you-are-here-by-mabi-david.html>by 
> Mabi David
>
> Denise Dooley reviews */ELDERS SERIES #3/* 
> <http://galatearesurrection13.blogspot.com/2009/12/elders-series-3-by-chris-kraus-and-tisa.html> 
> by Chris Kraus and Tisa Bryant
>
> Jade Hudson reviews */COLLAPSIBLE POETICS THEATER /* 
> <http://galatearesurrection13.blogspot.com/2009/12/collapsible-poetics-theater-by-rodrigo.html>by 
> Rodrigo Toscano
>
> Eileen Tabios engages */ANALFABETO / AN ALPHABET /* 
> <http://galatearesurrection13.blogspot.com/2009/12/analfabeto-alphabet-by-ellen-baxt.html>by 
> Ellen Baxt
>
> Denise Dooley reviews*/ CLASSIFICATION OF A SPIT STAIN /* 
> <http://galatearesurrection13.blogspot.com/2009/12/classification-of-spit-stain-by-ellie.html>by 
> Ellie Ga
>
> Rebecca Loudon reviews */WITH DEER /* 
> <http://galatearesurrection13.blogspot.com/2009/12/with-deer-by-aase-berg-trans-by_21.html>by 
> Aase Berg, Translated by Johannes G?ransson
>
> Gabriel Lovatt reviews */WITH DEER /* 
> <http://galatearesurrection13.blogspot.com/2009/12/with-deer-by-aase-berg-trans-by.html>by 
> Aase Berg, translated by Johannes G?ransson
>
> Tom Hibbard reviews */CHOOSE, SELECTED POEMS /* 
> <http://galatearesurrection13.blogspot.com/2009/12/choose-selected-poems-by-michael.html>by 
> Michael Rothenberg
>
> Amanda Reynolds reviews */THE LOST COUNTRY OF SIGHT /* 
> <http://galatearesurrection13.blogspot.com/2009/12/lost-country-of-sight-by-neil-aitken.html>by 
> Neil Aitken
>
> Virginia Konchan reviews */IDENTITY THEFT /* 
> <http://galatearesurrection13.blogspot.com/2009/12/identity-theft-by-catherine-daly.html>by 
> Catherine Daly
>
> Kristin Berkey-Abbott reviews */TORCHED VERSE ENDS /* 
> <http://galatearesurrection13.blogspot.com/2009/12/torched-verse-ends-by-steven-d.html>by 
> Steven D. Schroeder
>
> Eileen Tabios engages */WATER THE MOON /* 
> <http://galatearesurrection13.blogspot.com/2009/12/water-moon-by-fiona-sze-lorraine.html>by 
> Fiona Sze-Lorraine
>
> Virginia Konchan reviews */ZERO READERSHIP, AN EPIC /* 
> <http://galatearesurrection13.blogspot.com/2009/12/zero-readership-epic-by-filip.html>by 
> Filip Marinovich
>
> Nicholas T. Spatafora reviews */MANHATTAN MAN AND OTHER POEMS /* 
> <http://galatearesurrection13.blogspot.com/2009/12/manhattan-man-and-other-poems-by-jack.html>by 
> Jack Lynch
>
> John Bloomberg-Rissman reviews */NAVIGATE, AMELIA EARHARTS? LETTERS TO 
> HOME /and /CADAVER DOGS/* 
> <http://galatearesurrection13.blogspot.com/2009/12/2-books-by-rebecca-loudon.htm/>, 
> both by Rebecca Loudon
>
> Eileen Tabios engages /*HI HIGHER HYPERBOLE * 
> <http://galatearesurrection13.blogspot.com/2009/12/hi-higher-hyperbole-by-nicholas-manning.html>/by 
> Nicholas Manning
>
> Amanda Reynolds reviews */TO THE BONE /* 
> <http://galatearesurrection13.blogspot.com/2009/12/to-bone-by-sebastian-agudelo.html>by 
> Sebastian Agudelo
>
> Virginia Konchan reviews */THE BOATLOADS /* 
> <http://galatearesurrection13.blogspot.com/2009/12/boatloads-by-dan-albergotti.html>by 
> Dan Albergotti
>
> Crg Hill reviews */CARAMBOLES /* 
> <http://galatearesurrection13.blogspot.com/2009/12/caramboles-by-alexander-dickow.html>by 
> Alexander Dickow
>
> Jim McCrary engages */A MAN ABOUT TOWN /* 
> <http://galatearesurrection13.blogspot.com/2009/12/man-about-town-by-robert-j-baumann.html>by 
> Robert J. Baumann
>
> Kristin Berkey-Abbott reviews */LETTERS TO POETS: CONVERSATIONS ABOUT 
> POETICS, POLITICS, AND COMMUNITY/* 
> <http://galatearesurrection13.blogspot.com/2009/12/letters-to-poets-conversations-about.html>, 
> Eds. Jennifer Firestone and Dana Teen Lomax
>
> James Sanders reviews */PLAYING WITH WORDS: THE SPOKEN WORD IN 
> ARTISTIC PRACTICE/* 
> <http://galatearesurrection13.blogspot.com/2009/12/playing-with-words-spoken-word-in.html>, 
> Ed. Cathy Lane
>
> John Bloomberg-Rissman reviews */SUPER 8/ and /HALLUCINATING 
> CALIFORNIA /* 
> <http://galatearesurrection13.blogspot.com/2009/12/two-collaborations-by-richard-lopez.html>by 
> Richard Lopez and Jonathan Hayes
>
> John Herbert Cunningham reviews */THE PROSODY HANDBOOK: A GUIDE TO 
> POETIC FORM/* 
> <http://galatearesurrection13.blogspot.com/2009/12/prosody-handbook-guide-to-poetic-form.html> 
> by Robert Beum and Karl Shapiro
>
> Jeroen Nieuwland reviews */POETRY AND CULTURAL STUDIES: A READER/* 
> <http://galatearesurrection13.blogspot.com/2009/12/poetry-and-cultural-studies-reader-eds.html>, 
> Eds. Maria Damon and Ira Livingston
>
> Jon Curley reviews */TERRA LUCIDA /* 
> <http://galatearesurrection13.blogspot.com/2009/12/terra-lucida-by-joseph-donahue.html>by 
> Joseph Donahue
>
> Dana Ward reviews /*WOW WOW WOW WOW * 
> <http://galatearesurrection13.blogspot.com/2009/12/wow-wow-wow-wow-by-kevin-killian.html>/by 
> Kevin Killian
>
> Fiona Sze-Lorrain reviews */ONE AND TWENTY /* 
> <http://galatearesurrection13.blogspot.com/2009/12/one-and-twenty-by-paavo-haavikko.html>by 
> Paavo Haavikko, Trans. By Anselm Hollo
>
> Virginia Konchan reviews */TUNED DROVES /* 
> <http://galatearesurrection13.blogspot.com/2009/12/tuned-droves-by-eric-baus.html>by 
> Eric Baus
>
> Jeff Harrison reviews */GHOST DANCE IN 33 MOVEMENTS /* 
> <http://galatearesurrection13.blogspot.com/2009/12/ghost-dance-in-33-movements-by-anny.html>by 
> Anny Ballardini
>
> Eileen Tabios engages */TRUST /* 
> <http://galatearesurrection13.blogspot.com/2009/12/trust-by-liz-waldner.html>by 
> Liz Waldner
>
> Lisa Mahle-Grisez reviews */EROS & (FILL IN THE BLANK)/* 
> <http://galatearesurrection13.blogspot.com/2009/12/eros-fill-in-blank-by-charles-freeland.html> 
> by Charles Freeland
>
> Jon Curley reviews */TRUE CRIME /* 
> <http://galatearesurrection13.blogspot.com/2009/12/true-crime-by-donna-de-la-perriere.html>by 
> Donna de la Perri?re
>
> Virginia Konchan reviews */INTERVENING ABSENCE /* 
> <http://galatearesurrection13.blogspot.com/2009/12/intervening-absence-by-carrie-olivia.html>by 
> Carrie Olivia Adams
>
> James Stotts reviews */THE BRITTLE AGE AND RETURNING UPLAND /* 
> <http://galatearesurrection13.blogspot.com/2009/12/brittle-age-and-returning-upland-by.html>by 
> Ren? Char, translated by Gustaf Sobin
>
> Virginia Konchan reviews */CLOSE CALLS WITH NONSENSE /* 
> <http://galatearesurrection13.blogspot.com/2009/12/close-calls-with-nonsense-by-stephen.html>by 
> Stephen Burt
>
> Jim McCrary reviews */HOUSE ORGAN SUMMER 2009 /edited by Kenneth 
> Warren; /RUGH STUFF/by Steve Tills; HYPERGLOSSIA by Stacy Szymaszek; 
> /SOME SPECULATIONS AROUND GEORGE OPPEN?S PAROUSIA /by Rob Halpern; 
> /WELL MEANING WHITE GIRL /by Alli Warren; /SPRUNG FORMAL LITERARY 
> MAGAZINE/; /GET THE FUCK BACK INTO THAT BURNING PLANE/ by Lawrence 
> Griffin; and /MY DAY WALKING FROM MT. TABOR TO THE ZOO /and /MY DAY 
> /by James Yeary and illustrated by Nate Orton* 
> <http://galatearesurrection13.blogspot.com/2009/12/publications-written-or-edited-by.html>
>
> Virginia Konchan reviews */HAVE A GOOD ONE /* 
> <http://galatearesurrection13.blogspot.com/2009/12/have-good-one-by-anselm-berrigan.html>Anselm 
> Berrigan
>
> John Bloomberg-Rissman reviews */THE METHOD /* 
> <http://galatearesurrection13.blogspot.com/2009/12/method-by-sasha-steensen.html>by 
> Sasha Steensen
>
>
> *THE CRITIC WRITES POEMS*
> *Virginia Konchan* 
> <http://galatearesurrection13.blogspot.com/2009/12/critic-writes-poems.html>
>
>
> *FEATURED POET*
> *Tom Beckett interviews Rebecca Loudon* 
> <http://galatearesurrection13.blogspot.com/2009/12/featured-poet-rebecca-loudon.html>
>
>
> *FEATURE ARTICLE*
> *"?That all of us may write better?: Gatekeeping, the Literary 
> Establishment, and Marianne Moore as Editor of The Dial? by Kristina 
> Marie Darling* 
> <http://galatearesurrection13.blogspot.com/2009/12/feature-article-that-all-of-us-may.html>
>
>
> *FEATURE ARTICLE*
> *On the Philippines' 2009 National Artist Awards* 
> <http://galatearesurrection13.blogspot.com/2009/12/feature-article-on-philippines-2009.html>
>
>
> *FROM OFFLINE TO ONLINE: REPRINTED REVIEW*
> Martin Edmonds reviews */PELICAN DREAMING: POEMS 1959-2008 
> <http://galatearesurrection13.blogspot.com/2009/12/pelican-dreaming-poems-1959-2008-by.html>/*by 
> Mark Young
>
>
> *ADVERTISEMENT*
> *Tiny Poetry Books Feeding the World...Literally!* 
> <http://galatearesurrection11.blogspot.com/2008/12/tiny-books-of-poetry-feeding-world.html>
>
>
> *BACK COVER*
> *Yeah, yeah, Happy Holidays?am exhausted!* 
> <http://galatearesurrection13.blogspot.com/2009/12/back-cover.html>
>
>
>
>
> -- 
> Anny Ballardini
> http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
> http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
> http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078
> http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html
> I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a 
> dancing star!
> Friedrich Nietzsche
>
> ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique
> vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ?
> Giovenale
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>   

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From grahamd at ripon.edu  Thu Dec 24 11:08:53 2009
From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham)
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 2009 10:08:53 -0600
Subject: [New-Poetry] In tears amid the alien corn
Message-ID: <EB68CE5E-95C2-4ABE-8A38-B2A5663A1CFB@ripon.edu>

I take it as a given that all nations and languages have a view of others that is, to greater or lesser degree, "insular."  Not sure how comparative analysis can be easily done on such things, but for all the reasons noted it does seem likely that huge imperial nations might well be more self-absorbed than your average Lichtenstein.  

Personally I'm not much of a world traveler, but whenever I've visited other shores I've been interested, among other things, to see what poetry is available that's not generally found in the U.S.  Even in Canada there are plenty of poets that don't often make the jump across the border, in my experience.  When's the last time you saw a book by Tom Wayman or Al Purdy or Pat Lowther or Alden Nowlan for sale in a shop in the U.S., for instance?  All poets of fairly high repute in their own country, as far as I can tell.

On a trip to London 20 years ago I made it a point to try and get a first-hand sense of what American poetry looked like to Londoners.  I was interested to find, after visiting countless bookstores and libraries, reading literary journals, and so forth, that it seemd their vision of U.S. poetry was highly bifurcated.   On the one hand, a great deal of work in the Pound/Olson tradition was available.  On the other hand, a lot in the Lowell/Plath/Hecht/Wilbur line.  What was missing, you might say, was anything that wasn't coastal.  The broad midsection of the country and of the poetic mainstream was largely absent.  No Robert Bly, William Stafford, Gwendolyn Brooks, Philip Levine, James Wright, et al.  

Of course I'm exaggerating a bit.  But the trend was clear.  I do wonder if, in the past decade or two, the rise of the internet has changed things at all in this regard.   Readily available at the click of a mouse, for instance, is *Canadian Poetry Online*, where most of the Canadian poets I noted above can be found:

http://www.library.utoronto.ca/canpoetry/index_poet.htm




========================================
David Graham
grahamd at ripon.edu

Home Page:
http://web.me.com/drjazz

Poetry Library:
http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html
==========================================




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From uche at ogbuji.net  Thu Dec 24 11:09:02 2009
From: uche at ogbuji.net (Uche Ogbuji)
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 2009 09:09:02 -0700
Subject: [New-Poetry] Neruda/ Raul Zurita
In-Reply-To: <4b65c2d70912240121h4f54f535i9e860ed3f5c8b213@mail.gmail.com>
References: <179462.42323.qm@web55204.mail.re4.yahoo.com>
	<E1NNMDr-00043l-5e@elasmtp-masked.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
	<4b65c2d70912230525w5951c5d8h7812dc00d145a9a7@mail.gmail.com>
	<E1NNRv4-00030w-BX@elasmtp-masked.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
	<d116fbae0912230627pcbb30c4t9e643cea8d6084eb@mail.gmail.com>
	<E1NNSoX-0003Uq-48@elasmtp-kukur.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
	<d116fbae0912231804o5c84817ctbead550826742174@mail.gmail.com>
	<E1NNeaM-00073m-E6@elasmtp-scoter.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
	<013EADB87ADB4887A8575947567A9D98@SN037832120162>
	<4b65c2d70912240121h4f54f535i9e860ed3f5c8b213@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <d116fbae0912240809w31bdc12exf7cebc16357bd22b@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Dec 24, 2009 at 2:21 AM, Anny Ballardini
<anny.ballardini at gmail.com> wrote:
> I am sorry it got down to almost insulting terms.

I get the sense that in the modern academy, it's taken as just a given
that today's populace, and especially today's youth, are lazy and
culturally illiterate.  It's become so imbued with "truthiness" that
any attempt to re-think the matter is met almost with violence.  I
suppose it's a flaw of mine that I can't resist responding to
intellectual violence in kind, but I am certainly more interested in
discussion of what I see as a academic legend than I am in the
violence.

The world I live in has an energy and richness of cultural exchange
and synthesis that puts any age before it to shame.  Furthermore, I
see this energy even more among the youth, and within the culture of
youth than I do among adults.  As you say below, perhaps that is the
benefit of my personal travels and experiences.


> Uche, thank you for
> supporting my thesis. From what I understand, you and me are between
> cultures and between languages, and maybe we have a different point of view
> from those who are only one mother tongue, although, I am sure, Mark speaks
> Spanish fluently.

I've lived in a soup of languages all my life, from growing up in a
household of English, Igbo, Efik and Umon, having Arabic thrown into
the mix soon thereafter, to school-age exposure to Nigerian Pidgin,
Yoruba and Hausa, and my own personal pursuit that's led to study of
French, Spanish, Italian, German, Latin, Attic Greek, and Czech,
linguistic exchange has informed almost every stage of my life, and
all my friendships, and certainly my love of poetry (about 50% of my
very large Poetry collection is in original, non-English language).
Not all my friends and colleagues are quite as polygluttinous as I am,
but I certainly do not see the sorts of deserts out there some claim.


> I think this is the main difference in approaching the problem.
> I agree with Mark on knowing more of other people's cultures, the much it
> can cost.

Cost is the point exactly.  Infinite cross-cultural exchange might be
ideal (I'm not even sure it is, but I'm also not sure it's a useful
argument) but cross-cultural exchange costs resources, and so there
will always be limits.  My argument is that our age is at least in
line with the great ages of the past we revere in such reckoning, and
I think it's actually well ahead.

--Uche


> Claude Levy Strauss hated traveling but he did. I can offer an
> example without giving names, fair enough. An artist, who has been
> desecrating the American flag with his videos, heard an American couple
> comment enthusiastically: "Look, it is the American flag!" If that couple
> had known more about the ideological origin of the artist, they would have
> spared themselves not only the irony of the artist who talked of the scene
> as a joke, but also a misinterpretation that might cost them more at a
> social level.
>
>
>
> On Thu, Dec 24, 2009 at 9:06 AM, David Bircumshaw
> <david.bircumshaw at ntlworld.com> wrote:
>>
>> I'm with Mark on this Uche: 'Beowulf''s sole survival from its context is
>> apparent only to us: we have no way of knowing what existed of its genre
>> alongside it, there are tantalising references to monks being rebuked for
>> their enthusiasm for heroic verse, but these don't suggest 'Beowulf' itself.
>>
>> David Bircumshaw
>> Website: http://www.staplednapkin.org.uk
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Weiss" <junction at earthlink.net>
>> To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &amp;Views"
>> <new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
>> Sent: Thursday, December 24, 2009 3:41 AM
>> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Neruda/ Raul Zurita
>>
>>
>>> You can't possibly believe this. And it's a damned stupid analogy. The
>>> accidents of time cost everyone a great deal, but in this case it's absence
>>> of sufficient interest that costs us awareness of most of the current
>>> varieties of life on earth, even those expressed in languages spoken by
>>> hundreds of millions.
>>>
>>> And by the way, your history is a bit off. Those accidents of time have
>>> spawned an industry of recovery that began before the Roman Empire was cold.
>>> Apparently the victors, or better the survivors, did care about what had
>>> been lost.
>>>
>>> Ignorance of other cultures has got us into a series of horrific, stupid
>>> wars and caused us to damage our own best interests as a nation. It's not
>>> just about poetry.
>>>
>>> While I'm at it, please don't tell me what I would call something. You
>>> haven't earned that presumptuousness.
>>>
>>> Mark
>>>
>>> At 09:04 PM 12/23/2009, you wrote:
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Dec 23, 2009 at 8:07 AM, Mark Weiss <junction at earthlink.net>
>>>> wrote:
>>>> > Ignorance then is a virtue that the powerful can afford. It's
>>>> served us well
>>>> > thus far.
>>>>
>>>> You call it ignorance. ?Technically, you're right. ?But think for a
>>>> moment of The Iliad+ Odyssey+Homeric Hymns, or, if you prefer,
>>>> Beowulf. ?Each are examples of the focus that comes with power. ?Is
>>>> The Iliad really superior to all the Ithakan, Cretan, Thessalian
>>>> praise poetry tradition from which it sprang, or indeed all the
>>>> Paionian, Tracian, Dardanian and even Illyrian warrior songs and coda
>>>> from which that all flowed. ?What happened was that Helelnistic
>>>> culture brutally cleared things out, and focused. ?Even country
>>>> bumpkin Greek dialects such as Thessalian were snubbed, never mind
>>>> those damned alien Paionians (who were just the scum spawn of the
>>>> ancient Trojan enemy, anyway). ?Very, very little survived what you
>>>> would call that age of ignorance. ?Very few people would We got, e.g.
>>>> The Iliad out of it. ?Would it be cool on a certain level to get a
>>>> flavor of all that mad cacophony? ?Of course. ?To be fair we'd have a
>>>> lot of it still to hand if not for the tragedy at the Library of
>>>> Alexandria, but even then, I would guess we'd have no more surviving
>>>> variety from that age as one would of the present age through the lens
>>>> of American "ignorance". ?I mentioned Beowulf because it has a
>>>> similarly usurping relationship to countless centuries of Danish,
>>>> Norwegian, Swedish, and even Saxon bardic traditions that faded into
>>>> the background upon that consolidation in the British isles.
>>>>
>>>> Again, there is romanticism and there is reality. ?Not every poetry,
>>>> not every tradition, not even every great tradition can be preserved.
>>>> Because we're human, political power has an inordinate say in the
>>>> choices of preservation. ?And yes, I suppose you could say it's served
>>>> us well so far. ?I do quite enjoy the Iliad.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Uche Ogbuji ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? http://uche.ogbuji.net
>>>> Founding Partner, Zepheira ? ? ? ?http://zepheira.com
>>>> Linked-in profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/ucheogbuji
>>>> Articles: http://uche.ogbuji.net/tech/publications/
>>>> TNB: http://www.thenervousbreakdown.com/author/uogbuji/
>>>> Friendfeed: http://friendfeed.com/uche
>>>> Twitter: http://twitter.com/uogbuji
>>>> http://www.google.com/profiles/uche.ogbuji
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> New-Poetry mailing list
>>>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>>>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>>>
>>> Announcing The Whole Island: Six Decades of Cuban Poetry (University of
>>> California Press).
>>> Forthcoming in November 2009.
>>> http://go.ucpress.edu/WholeIsland
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> New-Poetry mailing list
>>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> New-Poetry mailing list
>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
>
>
> --
> Anny Ballardini
> http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
> http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
> http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078
> http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html
> I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing
> star!
> Friedrich Nietzsche
>
> ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique
> vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ?
> Giovenale
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
>



-- 
Uche Ogbuji                       http://uche.ogbuji.net
Founding Partner, Zepheira        http://zepheira.com
Linked-in profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/ucheogbuji
Articles: http://uche.ogbuji.net/tech/publications/
TNB: http://www.thenervousbreakdown.com/author/uogbuji/
Friendfeed: http://friendfeed.com/uche
Twitter: http://twitter.com/uogbuji
http://www.google.com/profiles/uche.ogbuji



From grahamd at ripon.edu  Thu Dec 24 12:15:45 2009
From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham)
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 2009 11:15:45 -0600
Subject: [New-Poetry] Night Before Christmas
Message-ID: <48DDD979-DF58-4056-849E-860FD7CE5B56@ripon.edu>

You really haven't heard "The Night Before Christmas" until you have heard it recited by Louis Armstrong:

http://www.jazzonthetube.com/page/673.html




========================================
David Graham
grahamd at ripon.edu

Home Page:
http://web.me.com/drjazz

Poetry Library:
http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html
==========================================




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From halvard at gmail.com  Thu Dec 24 12:41:54 2009
From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson)
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 2009 11:41:54 -0600
Subject: [New-Poetry] Neruda/ Raul Zurita
In-Reply-To: <d116fbae0912240809w31bdc12exf7cebc16357bd22b@mail.gmail.com>
References: <179462.42323.qm@web55204.mail.re4.yahoo.com>
	<4b65c2d70912230525w5951c5d8h7812dc00d145a9a7@mail.gmail.com>
	<E1NNRv4-00030w-BX@elasmtp-masked.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
	<d116fbae0912230627pcbb30c4t9e643cea8d6084eb@mail.gmail.com>
	<E1NNSoX-0003Uq-48@elasmtp-kukur.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
	<d116fbae0912231804o5c84817ctbead550826742174@mail.gmail.com>
	<E1NNeaM-00073m-E6@elasmtp-scoter.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
	<013EADB87ADB4887A8575947567A9D98@SN037832120162>
	<4b65c2d70912240121h4f54f535i9e860ed3f5c8b213@mail.gmail.com>
	<d116fbae0912240809w31bdc12exf7cebc16357bd22b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <f160a1210912240941g190864adn30280dc3369157e3@mail.gmail.com>

I suppose that "cultural illiteracy" made some sort of sense
when "culture" was so limited and narrow that one could
master or almost master it. Nowadays, though, anyone can
be seen as "illiterate" from some perspective or other. When
I was a kid someone venturing into Brahms symphonies
beyond the first could be seen as culturally adventurous
since to be "literate" all one needed was to know the first.

Our access to works of the past and present and of other
cultures now is so much wider than my father and grandfather
had that we're all illiterates. And we're all experts in what others
should and should not be reading, looking at, or listening to.

Hal


"We don't serve fine wine in half-pints, buddy."
                  --Robert Ashley

Halvard Johnson
================
halvard at gmail.com
http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home
http://entropyandme.blogspot.com
http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com
http://www.hamiltonstone.org
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From grahamd at ripon.edu  Thu Dec 24 12:54:24 2009
From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham)
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 2009 11:54:24 -0600
Subject: [New-Poetry] Cultural literacy
In-Reply-To: <f160a1210912240941g190864adn30280dc3369157e3@mail.gmail.com>
References: <179462.42323.qm@web55204.mail.re4.yahoo.com>
	<4b65c2d70912230525w5951c5d8h7812dc00d145a9a7@mail.gmail.com>
	<E1NNRv4-00030w-BX@elasmtp-masked.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
	<d116fbae0912230627pcbb30c4t9e643cea8d6084eb@mail.gmail.com>
	<E1NNSoX-0003Uq-48@elasmtp-kukur.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
	<d116fbae0912231804o5c84817ctbead550826742174@mail.gmail.com>
	<E1NNeaM-00073m-E6@elasmtp-scoter.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
	<013EADB87ADB4887A8575947567A9D98@SN037832120162>
	<4b65c2d70912240121h4f54f535i9e860ed3f5c8b213@mail.gmail.com>
	<d116fbae0912240809w31bdc12exf7cebc16357bd22b@mail.gmail.com>
	<f160a1210912240941g190864adn30280dc3369157e3@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <00EF2CC6-398F-4D3B-81D9-EFC80F584BC1@ripon.edu>




========================================
David Graham
grahamd at ripon.edu

Home Page:
http://web.me.com/drjazz

Poetry Library:
http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html
==========================================



Amen.

Remember all the fuss that attended E. D. Hirsch's book *Cultural Literacy* when it appeared lo these many years ago?  There was even a list, as I recall, of names and terms that one could use to diagnose one's exact degree of literacy ("5,000 essential facts to know").  The subtitle ("What Every American Needs to Know") says it all, indicating just what a sadly quixotic enterprise it was.  

Not that literacy is a bad thing.  Or literacies, more properly.  The educational challenges that exercised Hirsch were and are very real, I think.  But even to think of "solutions" in such manner is to be doomed from the start, in my view.  


On Dec 24, 2009, at 11:41 AM, Halvard Johnson wrote:

> I suppose that "cultural illiteracy" made some sort of sense
> when "culture" was so limited and narrow that one could
> master or almost master it. Nowadays, though, anyone can
> be seen as "illiterate" from some perspective or other. When
> I was a kid someone venturing into Brahms symphonies
> beyond the first could be seen as culturally adventurous
> since to be "literate" all one needed was to know the first.
> 
> Our access to works of the past and present and of other 
> cultures now is so much wider than my father and grandfather 
> had that we're all illiterates. And we're all experts in what others
> should and should not be reading, looking at, or listening to.
> 
> Hal
> 

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From obodooha at gmail.com  Thu Dec 24 13:22:12 2009
From: obodooha at gmail.com (Obododimma Oha)
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 2009 10:22:12 -0800
Subject: [New-Poetry] Merry Xmas
Message-ID: <a24092720912241022k3b44c475qa86c3d9899ef9bfe@mail.gmail.com>

Merry Xmas, everyone.
And here's to Mary's Boy Chile ...

A Toast to Mary's Boy
Chile<http://open.salon.com/blog/obododimma/2009/12/11/a_toast_to_marys_boy_chile>
by

Obododimma Oha.

http://open.salon.com/blog/obododimma/2009/12/11/a_toast_to_marys_boy_chile

Regards,
Obododimma.
-- 
Obododimma Oha
http://udude.wordpress.com/

Dept. of English
University of Ibadan
Nigeria

&

Fellow, Centre for Peace & Conflict Studies
University of Ibadan

Phone: +234 803 333 1330;
           +234 805 350 6604;
           +234 808 264 8060.
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From uche at ogbuji.net  Thu Dec 24 13:25:22 2009
From: uche at ogbuji.net (Uche Ogbuji)
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 2009 11:25:22 -0700
Subject: [New-Poetry] Neruda/ Raul Zurita
In-Reply-To: <f160a1210912240941g190864adn30280dc3369157e3@mail.gmail.com>
References: <179462.42323.qm@web55204.mail.re4.yahoo.com>
	<E1NNRv4-00030w-BX@elasmtp-masked.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
	<d116fbae0912230627pcbb30c4t9e643cea8d6084eb@mail.gmail.com>
	<E1NNSoX-0003Uq-48@elasmtp-kukur.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
	<d116fbae0912231804o5c84817ctbead550826742174@mail.gmail.com>
	<E1NNeaM-00073m-E6@elasmtp-scoter.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
	<013EADB87ADB4887A8575947567A9D98@SN037832120162>
	<4b65c2d70912240121h4f54f535i9e860ed3f5c8b213@mail.gmail.com>
	<d116fbae0912240809w31bdc12exf7cebc16357bd22b@mail.gmail.com>
	<f160a1210912240941g190864adn30280dc3369157e3@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <d116fbae0912241025g2ffa432am1ee380e845a6de39@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Dec 24, 2009 at 10:41 AM, Halvard Johnson <halvard at gmail.com> wrote:
> I suppose that "cultural illiteracy" made some sort of sense
> when "culture" was so limited and narrow that one could
> master or almost master it. Nowadays, though, anyone can
> be seen as "illiterate" from some perspective or other. When
> I was a kid someone venturing into Brahms symphonies
> beyond the first could be seen as culturally adventurous
> since to be "literate" all one needed was to know the first.
>
> Our access to works of the past and present and of other
> cultures now is so much wider than my father and grandfather
> had that we're all illiterates. And we're all experts in what others
> should and should not be reading, looking at, or listening to.

Amen.

What I find interesting is that the cultural variety available to our
children will be even greater still.  People have bemoaned the
supposed decomposition from polymathy to intellectual specialization.
I personally think that this decomposition has only occurred within
institutions designed to assign judgments and resources for intellect,
and it's an inevitable result of information overload.  More
generally, I think that the idea of general polymathy is replaced by
ribbons of cross-cutting specialties.  This manifests itself even in
popular art, where some of the people we like to write off as
mainstream pablum actually draw inspiration and material from diverse
sources.  You can't necessarily detect that in the result, but that's
the process of pop, and I think it's ultimately a process of
enrichment rather than reduction.

Sometimes the people whose tastes we wave off are reflecting much more
of an eclectic instinct than we credit.


-- 
Uche Ogbuji                       http://uche.ogbuji.net
Founding Partner, Zepheira        http://zepheira.com
Linked-in profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/ucheogbuji
Articles: http://uche.ogbuji.net/tech/publications/
TNB: http://www.thenervousbreakdown.com/author/uogbuji/
Friendfeed: http://friendfeed.com/uche
Twitter: http://twitter.com/uogbuji
http://www.google.com/profiles/uche.ogbuji


From anny.ballardini at gmail.com  Thu Dec 24 13:57:52 2009
From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 2009 19:57:52 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] Night Before Christmas
In-Reply-To: <48DDD979-DF58-4056-849E-860FD7CE5B56@ripon.edu>
References: <48DDD979-DF58-4056-849E-860FD7CE5B56@ripon.edu>
Message-ID: <4b65c2d70912241057i612a9d65y84f11b78e5cc8bae@mail.gmail.com>

Superb!

I found these:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8s-qID5Lec0&feature=related

and
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RIzB9KUCZRk&feature=related

:-)

On Thu, Dec 24, 2009 at 6:15 PM, David Graham <grahamd at ripon.edu> wrote:

> You really haven't heard "The Night Before Christmas" until you have heard
> it recited by Louis Armstrong:
>
> http://www.jazzonthetube.com/page/673.html
>
>
>
>
> ========================================
> David Graham
> grahamd at ripon.edu
>
> Home Page:
> http://web.me.com/drjazz
>
> Poetry Library:
> http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html
> ==========================================
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
>


-- 
Anny Ballardini
http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078
http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html
I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing
star!
Friedrich Nietzsche

? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique
vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ?
Giovenale
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From Opus40-01 at opus40.org  Thu Dec 24 16:19:06 2009
From: Opus40-01 at opus40.org (TheOldMole)
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 2009 16:19:06 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Merry Xmas
In-Reply-To: <a24092720912241022k3b44c475qa86c3d9899ef9bfe@mail.gmail.com>
References: <a24092720912241022k3b44c475qa86c3d9899ef9bfe@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4B33DACA.2090604@opus40.org>

Nice one.

Obododimma Oha wrote:
> Merry Xmas, everyone.
> And here's to Mary's Boy Chile ...
>
> A Toast to Mary's Boy Chile 
> <http://open.salon.com/blog/obododimma/2009/12/11/a_toast_to_marys_boy_chile>
> by
>
> Obododimma Oha. 
>
> http://open.salon.com/blog/obododimma/2009/12/11/a_toast_to_marys_boy_chile
>
> Regards,
> Obododimma.
> -- 
> Obododimma Oha
> http://udude.wordpress.com/
>
> Dept. of English
> University of Ibadan
> Nigeria
>
> &
>
> Fellow, Centre for Peace & Conflict Studies
> University of Ibadan
>
> Phone: +234 803 333 1330;
>            +234 805 350 6604;
>            +234 808 264 8060.
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>   

-- 
Tad Richards
Read my NY Writing Careers Examiner column today!
http://www.examiner.com/x-2862-NY-Writing-Careers-Examiner

http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/
http://opusforty.blogspot.com/



From ciccariello at gmail.com  Thu Dec 24 16:23:36 2009
From: ciccariello at gmail.com (Peter ciccariello)
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 2009 16:23:36 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Merry Xmas
In-Reply-To: <4B33DACA.2090604@opus40.org>
References: <a24092720912241022k3b44c475qa86c3d9899ef9bfe@mail.gmail.com>
	<4B33DACA.2090604@opus40.org>
Message-ID: <8f3fdbad0912241323u5c561f61y4beb7f05b7c7cfc@mail.gmail.com>

Fine, fine poem!

On Thu, Dec 24, 2009 at 4:19 PM, TheOldMole <Opus40-01 at opus40.org> wrote:

> Nice one.
>
> Obododimma Oha wrote:
>
>> Merry Xmas, everyone.
>> And here's to Mary's Boy Chile ...
>>
>> A Toast to Mary's Boy Chile <
>> http://open.salon.com/blog/obododimma/2009/12/11/a_toast_to_marys_boy_chile
>> >
>>
>> by
>>
>> Obododimma Oha.
>>
>> http://open.salon.com/blog/obododimma/2009/12/11/a_toast_to_marys_boy_chile
>>
>> Regards,
>> Obododimma.
>> --
>> Obododimma Oha
>> http://udude.wordpress.com/
>>
>> Dept. of English
>> University of Ibadan
>> Nigeria
>>
>> &
>>
>> Fellow, Centre for Peace & Conflict Studies
>> University of Ibadan
>>
>> Phone: +234 803 333 1330;
>>           +234 805 350 6604;
>>           +234 808 264 8060.
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> New-Poetry mailing list
>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>>
>>
>
> --
> Tad Richards
> Read my NY Writing Careers Examiner column today!
> http://www.examiner.com/x-2862-NY-Writing-Careers-Examiner
>
> http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/
> http://opusforty.blogspot.com/
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>



-- 
http://invisiblenotes.blogspot.com/
http://uncommonvision.blogspot.com/
http://poemsfromprovidence.blogspot.com/
http://uncommon-vision.blogspot.com/
You can find my art and writing updates on Twitter
https://twitter.com/ciccariello
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From anny.ballardini at gmail.com  Fri Dec 25 13:05:42 2009
From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Fri, 25 Dec 2009 19:05:42 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] tooooting :-)
Message-ID: <4b65c2d70912251005j6a7b3ddbya7e64c0dcb8c015b@mail.gmail.com>

with Santa Claus' horn this time of the year. As a contributor of 'Girl
Singing" I can't but share our Editor's enthusiasm:
http://www.stridemagazine.co.uk/Stride%20mag2009/Nov%202009/eds%20picks%202009.htm

just received from John Bloomberg-Rissman.
With happy wishes,
Anny

-- 
Anny Ballardini
http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078
http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html
I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing
star!
Friedrich Nietzsche

? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique
vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ?
Giovenale
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From jforjames at aol.com  Sat Dec 26 17:09:25 2009
From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com)
Date: Sat, 26 Dec 2009 17:09:25 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Poet, anti-apartheid activist Dennis Brutus dies
Message-ID: <8CC548F384E47B9-18D4-89B9@webmail-d084.sysops.aol.com>


http://www.wfmj.com/Global/story.asp?S=11732833
Poet, anti-apartheid activist Dennis Brutus dies
 
Associated Press - December 26, 2009 4:15 PM ET 

CAPE TOWN, South Africa (AP) - South African poet and former political prisoner Dennis Brutus has died. He was 85.
Brutus' publisher, Chicago-based Haymarket Books, says the writer died in his sleep at his home in Cape Town on Saturday.

Brutus was an anti-apartheid activist who was jailed at Robben Island with Nelson Mandela in the mid-1960s. His activism led Olympic officials to ban South Africa from competition from 1964 until apartheid ended nearly 30 years later.

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From editor at pavementsaw.org  Sun Dec 27 12:02:40 2009
From: editor at pavementsaw.org (David Baratier)
Date: Sun, 27 Dec 2009 09:02:40 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [New-Poetry] Pavement Saw Chapbook Contest: Deadline this Thursday
	12/31/09 
Message-ID: <821283.77980.qm@web45601.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>

Pavement Saw Chapbook Contest: Deadline this Thursday 12/31/09 
   
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>     

Submit electronically, save the hassle of printing out a manuscript and have your funds support poetry not the post office! Directly enter by using our website http://www.pavementsaw.org/pages/chapcontest.htm

$500 and 50 copies of the winning chapbook will be awarded to the winner. In addition to the prize winner, at least one other manuscript will be published under a standard royalty contract (author paid 10% of press run). Everyone is allowed to submit regardless of previous publication history. Every entrant will receive the equivalent cost of the entry fee in Pavement Saw Press titles.

Unlike many publishers whose collections are printed one copy at a time and therefore lack a large circulation, our chapbooks are published in a first edition of 400 copies plus overage. While chapbooks rarely receive exposure, ours have been reviewed in Poets and Writers, Publishers Weekly, The Georgia Review, Small Press Review and many others. Our previous winners have had subsequent full length books appear from a bevy of publishers including Curbstone Press, Cleveland State University Press, Bear Star Press, University of Georgia, and Hanging Loose Press. 

Submit up to 32 pages of poetry. Include a signed cover letter with your name, address, phone number, e-mail, publication credits, a brief biography and the title of the chapbook. Include a cover page with your contact information and the chapbook title. Include a second page with the chapbook title only. Do not include your name on any pages inside the manuscript except for the first title page. No need for a contents page. All chapbooks are selected blindly / anonymously. Manuscripts will be considered until December 31st, 2009. Entry fee: $15 for US entries, $18 overseas, $21 electronic (world wide). 

If you wish to submit electronically, send $21.00 via paypal to info at pavementsaw.org. Then e-mail the manuscript as an attachment to the same address and we will send you an e-mail confirmation that your entry is all set. Electronic submissions need to be sent as PDF files or as word (.doc or .docx) files. Other formats are not accepted. The extra cost is to cover the paypal fees as well as the time, labor, ink, and so on, to print out your manuscript. Or use our website http://www.pavementsaw.org/pages/chapcontest.htm

If you wish to send via regular mail accompany your manuscript with a check in the amount of $15.00 payable to Pavement Saw Press. All contributors to the contest will receive books, chapbooks and journals equal to, or more than, the entry fee. Add $3 (US) for other countries to cover the extra postal charge. Do not include an SASE for notification of results. Do not send the only copy of your work. All manuscripts are recycled and individual comments on the manuscripts cannot be made. This year the editor will be the judge and, as it should be, he promises not to chose former students, former or potential sexual partners, press interns, or people that can make him famous. A decision will be reached in March. Entries should be sent to our address at the bottom of the page.

Previous Winners
Brian Teare, >; Noah Eli Gordon, Acoustic Experience; Susan Terris, Marriage License; Dan Boehl, Work; Joshua Corey,  Compostition Marble; Knute Skinner, The Other Shoe; Lisa Samuels, War Holdings; F. J. Bergmann, Sauce Robert; John Bradley, Add Musk Here; Amy King, The People Instruments; Will Nixon, The Fish are Laughing; Shelley Stenhouse, Pants; David Brooks, Right Livelihood; Douglas Goetsch, Wherever You Want; Joshua Mc Kinney, Permutations of the Gallery.

Pavement Saw Press
Chapbook Contest
321 Empire Street
Montpelier, OH 43543
http://www.pavementsaw.org/pages/chapcontest.htm



Be well

David Baratier, Editor

Pavement Saw Press
321 Empire Street
Montpelier OH 43543
http://pavementsaw.org

Subscribe to our e-mail listserv at
http://pavementsaw.org/list/?p=subscribe&id=1


      



From Opus40-01 at opus40.org  Sun Dec 27 13:06:23 2009
From: Opus40-01 at opus40.org (TheOldMole)
Date: Sun, 27 Dec 2009 13:06:23 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] RIP Dennis Brutus
Message-ID: <4B37A21E.5020704@opus40.org>

Dennis Brutus, the prolific poet and impassioned activist who was 
imprisoned alongside Nelson Mandela in South Africa, died at his home in 
Cape Town this morning after battling prostate cancer. He was 85.

Mr. Brutus was exiled from his native South Africa for more than 20 
years, and he successfully lobbied to ban the apartheid regime's 
all-white Olympic teams from the games.

During his exile, he traveled around the world, spending many years in 
Pittsburgh. At the University of Pittsburgh, where he was a professor, 
he directed the Black Studies department, now the Africana Studies 
department. He was beloved by many local writers and activists, who 
today recalled his gentle nature and devotion to human rights, whether 
in words or action.


Read more: 
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/09360/1023868-100.stm#ixzz0auhzvpWs

-- 
Tad Richards
Read my NY Writing Careers Examiner column today!
http://www.examiner.com/x-2862-NY-Writing-Careers-Examiner

http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/
http://opusforty.blogspot.com/



From anny.ballardini at gmail.com  Sun Dec 27 13:37:47 2009
From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Sun, 27 Dec 2009 19:37:47 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] RIP Dennis Brutus
In-Reply-To: <4B37A21E.5020704@opus40.org>
References: <4B37A21E.5020704@opus40.org>
Message-ID: <4b65c2d70912271037u56049196j89482828a054271f@mail.gmail.com>

Poor man, I just saw his picture on Ron Silliman's blog. Isn't it strange to
be called Brutus...
I know I am being silly, but what can I do.


On Sun, Dec 27, 2009 at 7:06 PM, TheOldMole <Opus40-01 at opus40.org> wrote:

> Dennis Brutus, the prolific poet and impassioned activist who was
> imprisoned alongside Nelson Mandela in South Africa, died at his home in
> Cape Town this morning after battling prostate cancer. He was 85.
>
> Mr. Brutus was exiled from his native South Africa for more than 20 years,
> and he successfully lobbied to ban the apartheid regime's all-white Olympic
> teams from the games.
>
> During his exile, he traveled around the world, spending many years in
> Pittsburgh. At the University of Pittsburgh, where he was a professor, he
> directed the Black Studies department, now the Africana Studies department.
> He was beloved by many local writers and activists, who today recalled his
> gentle nature and devotion to human rights, whether in words or action.
>
>
> Read more:
> http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/09360/1023868-100.stm#ixzz0auhzvpWs
>
> --
> Tad Richards
> Read my NY Writing Careers Examiner column today!
> http://www.examiner.com/x-2862-NY-Writing-Careers-Examiner
>
> http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/
> http://opusforty.blogspot.com/
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>



-- 
Anny Ballardini
http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078
http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html
I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing
star!
Friedrich Nietzsche

? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique
vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ?
Giovenale
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From anny.ballardini at gmail.com  Mon Dec 28 05:20:10 2009
From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 2009 11:20:10 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] James Laughlin on Keillor's Almanac
Message-ID: <4b65c2d70912280220p7abf6b4rb37b481bb7f1916f@mail.gmail.com>

 O Best of All Nights, Return and Return Again

by James Laughlin<http://www.elabs7.com/c.html?rtr=on&s=fj6,jp2p,dv,3f8c,56h,3hrs,fxvj>

How she let her long hair down over her shoulders, making a
  love cave around her face. Return and return again.
How when the lamplight was lowered she pressed against
  him, twining her fingers in his. Return and return again.
How their legs swam together like dolphins and their toes
  played like little tunnies. Return and return again.
How she sat beside him cross-legged, telling him stories of
  her childhood. Return and return again.
How she closed her eyes when his were open, how they
  breathed together, breathing each other. Return and return again.
How they fell into slumber, their bodies curled together like
  two spoons. Return and return again.
How they went together to Otherwhere, the fairest land they
  had ever seen. Return and return again.
O best of all nights, return and return again.

"O Best of All Nights, Return and Return Again" by James Laughlin, from *Poems
New and Selected*. ? New Directions Publishing Corporation, 1996. Reprinted
with permission. (buy
now<http://www.elabs7.com/c.html?rtr=on&s=fj6,jp2p,dv,hsv4,g4yn,3hrs,fxvj>)



-- 
Anny Ballardini
http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078
http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html
I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing
star!
Friedrich Nietzsche

? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique
vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ?
Giovenale
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From jforjames at aol.com  Mon Dec 28 18:35:15 2009
From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 2009 18:35:15 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Best Poetry Blogs by Joseph Hutchison
Message-ID: <8CC562D8A8619B6-8A20-2DA77@webmail-m031.sysops.aol.com>


http://resourcesforwriters.suite101.com/article.cfm/poetry_blogs_a_bakers_dozen_of_the_best

The Web offers terrific resources for poets, and among the most useful are poetry blogs. They address a need that all poets have for a circle of like-minded people devoted to sharing their knowledge and passion about poetry. This is especially important for poets whose local communities don?t offer poetry groups and for poets who can?t afford the hefty cost of an MFA program. Poetry blogs help readers keep up on new publications, issues of craft, poetic trends, and strategies for dealing with more pragmatic aspects of the writing life.

The trick, of course, is ferreting out the most valuable blogs from the thousands available. 
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From jforjames at aol.com  Mon Dec 28 18:50:10 2009
From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 2009 18:50:10 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Show Me State Po Laureate Process
Message-ID: <8CC562FA0253796-8A20-2DD4D@webmail-m031.sysops.aol.com>


http://www.infozine.com/news/stories/op/storiesView/sid/39239/
 Jefferson City, Mo - infoZine - Gov. Jay Nixon signed an executive order establishing the procedure that will be used to select Missouri's second poet laureate.

"Missouri has produced generations of powerful, inspirational and compelling poets and writers, including such timeless bards as Samuel Clemens, Maya Angelou and Laura Ingalls Wilder," Gov. Nixon said. "By selecting a poet laureate, we pay tribute to these brilliant artists, and we hope to inspire the poets and authors of the future. 
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From Opus40-01 at opus40.org  Mon Dec 28 20:02:45 2009
From: Opus40-01 at opus40.org (TheOldMole)
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 2009 20:02:45 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Best Poetry Blogs by Joseph Hutchison
In-Reply-To: <8CC562D8A8619B6-8A20-2DA77@webmail-m031.sysops.aol.com>
References: <8CC562D8A8619B6-8A20-2DA77@webmail-m031.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <4B395535.6070506@opus40.org>

Kudos to Chris Lott!

jforjames at aol.com wrote:
> http://resourcesforwriters.suite101.com/article.cfm/poetry_blogs_a_bakers_dozen_of_the_best
>  
> The Web offers terrific resources for poets, and among the most useful 
> are poetry blogs. They address a need that all poets have for a circle 
> of like-minded people devoted to sharing their knowledge and passion 
> about poetry. This is especially important for poets whose local 
> communities don?t offer poetry groups and for poets who can?t afford 
> the hefty cost of an MFA program. Poetry blogs help readers keep up on 
> new publications, issues of craft, poetic trends, and strategies for 
> dealing with more pragmatic aspects of the writing life.
> The trick, of course, is ferreting out the most valuable blogs from 
> the thousands available.
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>   

-- 
Tad Richards
Read my NY Writing Careers Examiner column today!
http://www.examiner.com/x-2862-NY-Writing-Careers-Examiner

http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/
http://opusforty.blogspot.com/



From jforjames at aol.com  Mon Dec 28 22:16:34 2009
From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 2009 22:16:34 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] How has poetry changed in the past ten years? 
Message-ID: <8CC564C75A18BCC-DD0-5DA23@webmail-d061.sysops.aol.com>


http://www.poetryfoundation.org/journal/article.html?id=238430

The past ten years have changed poetry in ways that have shocked and delighted even the most forward-thinking readers and writers. Online communities have flourished, dominant paradigms have shifted, and readers have found new solace in traditional forms. Poetry?and poetry communities?will never be the same. We asked poets and critics whose work has had a wide influence over the art form to describe the poetry ?event? that most shaped their view of the decade. They focused on events both private and public, and their responses reveal that poetry in the new decade will continue to be a living, breathing, and ever-changing thing.?The Editors
=
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From anny.ballardini at gmail.com  Tue Dec 29 01:20:16 2009
From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 2009 07:20:16 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] Best Poetry Blogs by Joseph Hutchison
In-Reply-To: <4B395535.6070506@opus40.org>
References: <8CC562D8A8619B6-8A20-2DA77@webmail-m031.sysops.aol.com>
	<4B395535.6070506@opus40.org>
Message-ID: <4b65c2d70912282220s2312e999x76d2908b64a3ebda@mail.gmail.com>

Oh yes, all proud for Chris, and Ron Silliman, and the Isola dei Rifiuti,
should I have a day of 124 hours, here is my lament.


On Tue, Dec 29, 2009 at 2:02 AM, TheOldMole <Opus40-01 at opus40.org> wrote:

> Kudos to Chris Lott!
>
> jforjames at aol.com wrote:
>
>>
>> http://resourcesforwriters.suite101.com/article.cfm/poetry_blogs_a_bakers_dozen_of_the_best
>>  The Web offers terrific resources for poets, and among the most useful
>> are poetry blogs. They address a need that all poets have for a circle of
>> like-minded people devoted to sharing their knowledge and passion about
>> poetry. This is especially important for poets whose local communities don?t
>> offer poetry groups and for poets who can?t afford the hefty cost of an MFA
>> program. Poetry blogs help readers keep up on new publications, issues of
>> craft, poetic trends, and strategies for dealing with more pragmatic aspects
>> of the writing life.
>> The trick, of course, is ferreting out the most valuable blogs from the
>> thousands available.
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> New-Poetry mailing list
>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>>
>>
>
> --
> Tad Richards
> Read my NY Writing Careers Examiner column today!
> http://www.examiner.com/x-2862-NY-Writing-Careers-Examiner
>
> http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/
> http://opusforty.blogspot.com/
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>



-- 
Anny Ballardini
http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078
http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html
I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing
star!
Friedrich Nietzsche

? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique
vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ?
Giovenale
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From jforjames at aol.com  Tue Dec 29 10:59:30 2009
From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 2009 10:59:30 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] WorldPo: Agentine Scene
Message-ID: <8CC56B70A9124CC-3434-62843@webmail-m033.sysops.aol.com>


http://www.guardianweekly.co.uk/?page=editorial&id=1398&catID=10
"In Buenos Aires particularly, because of the falling peso and the cost of goods going up, cardboard suddenly became a valuable commodity. There emerged a new unofficial sector of cardboard collectors, called cartoneros. A number of poets and editors got together with a group of cartoneros to set up their own publishing company. They printed pages using a photocopier and bound them between cardboard covers, which were then hand painted to produce artisanal books that are very suited to collections of poetry and short stories.? The venture is named Elo?sa Cartonera, highlighting its origins in unofficial recycling.

This new way of publishing also ushered in new styles of writing, making Argentine poetry more accessible. As apparent proof of its growing appeal Sergio Raimondi, an exponent of this new approach, won a Guggenheim memorial fellowship in 2007.

?Raimondi is such an important writer because his style of writing is capable of overcoming the impasse that many felt existed in Argentine poetry between writing earlier styles of experimental poetry and writing poetry that is able to address everyday question of politics and poverty,? says Bollig. ?What you get with Raimondi in works such as his Poes?a civil collection is an attempt to address political questions around historical memory and the legacy of the dictatorship without losing the attention to poetry as being poetic.?

...

Poems from eminent writers are often collected into anthologies and there is often debate over who is and is not included ? none more so recently than when Hollywood actor Viggo Mortensen funded and published an anthology through his own company, Perceval. ?It seemed strange that someone who most people have seen in the Lord of Rings should have such a sideline,? says Bollig. ?He is actually a lover of Argentine poetry and he spent about eight years living in Argentina from the age of three. The publicity the anthology received has given tremendous impetus to Argentine poetry.?

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From jforjames at aol.com  Tue Dec 29 11:01:09 2009
From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 2009 11:01:09 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] WorldPo: Argentine Scene (corrected caption)
In-Reply-To: <8CC56B70A9124CC-3434-62843@webmail-m033.sysops.aol.com>
References: <8CC56B70A9124CC-3434-62843@webmail-m033.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <8CC56B74527DCAC-3434-628CE@webmail-m033.sysops.aol.com>

Let's try that again...

-----Original Message-----
From: jforjames at aol.com
To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
Sent: Tue, Dec 29, 2009 10:59 am


http://www.guardianweekly.co.uk/?page=editorial&id=1398&catID=10
"In Buenos Aires particularly, because of the falling peso and the cost of goods going up, cardboard suddenly became a valuable commodity. There emerged a new unofficial sector of cardboard collectors, called cartoneros. A number of poets and editors got together with a group of cartoneros to set up their own publishing company. They printed pages using a photocopier and bound them between cardboard covers, which were then hand painted to produce artisanal books that are very suited to collections of poetry and short stories.? The venture is named Elo?sa Cartonera, highlighting its origins in unofficial recycling.
 
This new way of publishing also ushered in new styles of writing, making Argentine poetry more accessible. As apparent proof of its growing appeal Sergio Raimondi, an exponent of this new approach, won a Guggenheim memorial fellowship in 2007.
 
?Raimondi is such an important writer because his style of writing is capable of overcoming the impasse that many felt existed in Argentine poetry between writing earlier styles of experimental poetry and writing poetry that is able to address everyday question of politics and poverty,? says Bollig. ?What you get with Raimondi in works such as his Poes?a civil collection is an attempt to address political questions around historical memory and the legacy of the dictatorship without losing the attention to poetry as being poetic.?
 
...
 
Poems from eminent writers are often collected into anthologies and there is often debate over who is and is not included ? none more so recently than when Hollywood actor Viggo Mortensen funded and published an anthology through his own company, Perceval. ?It seemed strange that someone who most people have seen in the Lord of Rings should have such a sideline,? says Bollig. ?He is actually a lover of Argentine poetry and he spent about eight years living in Argentina from the age of three. The publicity the anthology received has given tremendous impetus to Argentine poetry.?


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From jforjames at aol.com  Tue Dec 29 11:38:25 2009
From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 2009 11:38:25 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Perceval Press
Message-ID: <8CC56BC7A33622C-469C-938@webmail-m033.sysops.aol.com>

http://www.percevalpress.com/index.html
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From anny.ballardini at gmail.com  Tue Dec 29 11:57:49 2009
From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 2009 17:57:49 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] Perceval Press
In-Reply-To: <8CC56BC7A33622C-469C-938@webmail-m033.sysops.aol.com>
References: <8CC56BC7A33622C-469C-938@webmail-m033.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <4b65c2d70912290857q5bcc2638gac09b807fcfc701@mail.gmail.com>

Beautiful pictures!

On Tue, Dec 29, 2009 at 5:38 PM, <jforjames at aol.com> wrote:

> http://www.percevalpress.com/index.html
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
>


-- 
Anny Ballardini
http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078
http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html
I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing
star!
Friedrich Nietzsche

? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique
vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ?
Giovenale
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From anny.ballardini at gmail.com  Tue Dec 29 12:10:09 2009
From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 2009 18:10:09 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] Poet Editors
Message-ID: <4b65c2d70912290910i45fa3bc1x4eef25d9cb31fd86@mail.gmail.com>

I was wondering, besides Mark Young, Eileen Tabios, Geoffrey Gatza, William
Allegrezza, Bill Lavender, David Baratier, Susan Schultz, Jesse Glass,
are there any other Poet Editors?

Thank you, Anny

-- 
Anny Ballardini
http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078
http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html
I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing
star!
Friedrich Nietzsche

? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique
vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ?
Giovenale
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From anny.ballardini at gmail.com  Tue Dec 29 12:11:28 2009
From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 2009 18:11:28 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: Poet Editors
In-Reply-To: <4b65c2d70912290910i45fa3bc1x4eef25d9cb31fd86@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4b65c2d70912290910i45fa3bc1x4eef25d9cb31fd86@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4b65c2d70912290911j342855bdr20fb72bb5ac3b952@mail.gmail.com>

Sorry, I sent before ending my message, Editors supported by a press, not
only online Editors.



I was wondering, besides Mark Young, Eileen Tabios, Geoffrey Gatza, William
Allegrezza, Bill Lavender, David Baratier, Susan Schultz, Jesse Glass,
are there any other Poet Editors?

Thank you, Anny

-- 
Anny Ballardini
http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078
http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html
I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing
star!
Friedrich Nietzsche

? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique
vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ?
Giovenale
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From halvard at gmail.com  Tue Dec 29 12:13:33 2009
From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson)
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 2009 11:13:33 -0600
Subject: [New-Poetry] Poet Editors
In-Reply-To: <4b65c2d70912290910i45fa3bc1x4eef25d9cb31fd86@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4b65c2d70912290910i45fa3bc1x4eef25d9cb31fd86@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <f160a1210912290913k19844196t131ce1a07dd43110@mail.gmail.com>

Let's see, there's Anny Ballardini.

Hal

"We don't serve fine wine in half-pints, buddy."
                  --Robert Ashley

Halvard Johnson
================
halvard at gmail.com
http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home
http://entropyandme.blogspot.com
http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com
http://www.hamiltonstone.org


On Tue, Dec 29, 2009 at 11:10 AM, Anny Ballardini <anny.ballardini at gmail.com
> wrote:

> I was wondering, besides Mark Young, Eileen Tabios, Geoffrey Gatza, William
> Allegrezza, Bill Lavender, David Baratier, Susan Schultz, Jesse Glass,
> are there any other Poet Editors?
>
> Thank you, Anny
>
> --
> Anny Ballardini
> http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
> http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
> http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078
> http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html
> I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing
> star!
> Friedrich Nietzsche
>
> ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique
> vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ?
> Giovenale
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
>
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From anny.ballardini at gmail.com  Tue Dec 29 12:17:20 2009
From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 2009 18:17:20 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] Poet Editors
In-Reply-To: <f160a1210912290913k19844196t131ce1a07dd43110@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4b65c2d70912290910i45fa3bc1x4eef25d9cb31fd86@mail.gmail.com>
	<f160a1210912290913k19844196t131ce1a07dd43110@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4b65c2d70912290917t4cb976a3n9b16f9f921648fa@mail.gmail.com>

Lovely Hal, thank you, I forwarded another message, I meant *Editors who
produce books*. I know there are also Halvard Johnson and James Cervantes
for a great online reading!
Cheers

On Tue, Dec 29, 2009 at 6:13 PM, Halvard Johnson <halvard at gmail.com> wrote:

> Let's see, there's Anny Ballardini.
>
> Hal
>
> "We don't serve fine wine in half-pints, buddy."
>                   --Robert Ashley
>
> Halvard Johnson
> ================
> halvard at gmail.com
> http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home
> http://entropyandme.blogspot.com
> http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com
> http://www.hamiltonstone.org
>
>
> On Tue, Dec 29, 2009 at 11:10 AM, Anny Ballardini <
> anny.ballardini at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I was wondering, besides Mark Young, Eileen Tabios, Geoffrey Gatza,
>> William Allegrezza, Bill Lavender, David Baratier, Susan Schultz, Jesse
>> Glass,
>> are there any other Poet Editors?
>>
>> Thank you, Anny
>>
>> --
>> Anny Ballardini
>> http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
>> http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
>> http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078
>> http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html
>> I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing
>> star!
>> Friedrich Nietzsche
>>
>> ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique
>> vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ?
>> Giovenale
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> New-Poetry mailing list
>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
>


-- 
Anny Ballardini
http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078
http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html
I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing
star!
Friedrich Nietzsche

? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique
vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ?
Giovenale
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From c.a.b.daly at gmail.com  Tue Dec 29 12:22:04 2009
From: c.a.b.daly at gmail.com (Catherine Daly)
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 2009 09:22:04 -0800
Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: Poet Editors
In-Reply-To: <4b65c2d70912290911j342855bdr20fb72bb5ac3b952@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4b65c2d70912290910i45fa3bc1x4eef25d9cb31fd86@mail.gmail.com>
	<4b65c2d70912290911j342855bdr20fb72bb5ac3b952@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <f3cd389f0912290922v5d9c018ep6cab13c4367ab000@mail.gmail.com>

Janet Homes, Mark Weiss, Catherine Daly, Jonathan Galassi, Dan
Halpern, Douglas Messerli, Lawrence Ferlinghetti, Paul Vangelisti,
Jill Stengel, Suzanne Gardner, Charles Alexander, Guy Bennett, Joyelle
McSweeney, Shanna Compton...

-- 
All best,
Catherine Daly
c.a.b.daly at gmail.com


From anny.ballardini at gmail.com  Tue Dec 29 12:25:25 2009
From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 2009 18:25:25 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: Poet Editors
In-Reply-To: <f3cd389f0912290922v5d9c018ep6cab13c4367ab000@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4b65c2d70912290910i45fa3bc1x4eef25d9cb31fd86@mail.gmail.com>
	<4b65c2d70912290911j342855bdr20fb72bb5ac3b952@mail.gmail.com>
	<f3cd389f0912290922v5d9c018ep6cab13c4367ab000@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4b65c2d70912290925i538103a4h58b0d9a73879b52b@mail.gmail.com>

Thank you Catherine. I knew I was leaving out some V.I.P.s like our Mark
Weiss. Do you have a publishing house Catherine?

On Tue, Dec 29, 2009 at 6:22 PM, Catherine Daly <c.a.b.daly at gmail.com>wrote:

> Janet Homes, Mark Weiss, Catherine Daly, Jonathan Galassi, Dan
> Halpern, Douglas Messerli, Lawrence Ferlinghetti, Paul Vangelisti,
> Jill Stengel, Suzanne Gardner, Charles Alexander, Guy Bennett, Joyelle
> McSweeney, Shanna Compton...
>
> --
> All best,
> Catherine Daly
> c.a.b.daly at gmail.com
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>



-- 
Anny Ballardini
http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078
http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html
I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing
star!
Friedrich Nietzsche

? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique
vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ?
Giovenale
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From c.a.b.daly at gmail.com  Tue Dec 29 12:31:08 2009
From: c.a.b.daly at gmail.com (Catherine Daly)
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 2009 09:31:08 -0800
Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: Poet Editors
In-Reply-To: <4b65c2d70912290925i538103a4h58b0d9a73879b52b@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4b65c2d70912290910i45fa3bc1x4eef25d9cb31fd86@mail.gmail.com>
	<4b65c2d70912290911j342855bdr20fb72bb5ac3b952@mail.gmail.com>
	<f3cd389f0912290922v5d9c018ep6cab13c4367ab000@mail.gmail.com>
	<4b65c2d70912290925i538103a4h58b0d9a73879b52b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <f3cd389f0912290931l59f9d3fbs88be16e534a701f4@mail.gmail.com>

i.e. Press

http://iepress.blogspot.com

Sam Hamill (formerly), Sandra (Miller) Doller, Rusty Morrison, Rod
Smith, William Howe...


On Tue, Dec 29, 2009 at 9:25 AM, Anny Ballardini
<anny.ballardini at gmail.com> wrote:
> Thank you Catherine. I knew I was leaving out some V.I.P.s like our Mark
> Weiss. Do you have a publishing house Catherine?
>
> On Tue, Dec 29, 2009 at 6:22 PM, Catherine Daly <c.a.b.daly at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>>
>> Janet Homes, Mark Weiss, Catherine Daly, Jonathan Galassi, Dan
>> Halpern, Douglas Messerli, Lawrence Ferlinghetti, Paul Vangelisti,
>> Jill Stengel, Suzanne Gardner, Charles Alexander, Guy Bennett, Joyelle
>> McSweeney, Shanna Compton...
>>
>> --
>> All best,
>> Catherine Daly
>> c.a.b.daly at gmail.com
>> _______________________________________________
>> New-Poetry mailing list
>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
>
>
> --
> Anny Ballardini
> http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
> http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
> http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078
> http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html
> I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing
> star!
> Friedrich Nietzsche
>
> ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique
> vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ?
> Giovenale
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
>



-- 
All best,
Catherine Daly
c.a.b.daly at gmail.com



From halvard at gmail.com  Tue Dec 29 12:31:38 2009
From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson)
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 2009 11:31:38 -0600
Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: Poet Editors
In-Reply-To: <4b65c2d70912290925i538103a4h58b0d9a73879b52b@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4b65c2d70912290910i45fa3bc1x4eef25d9cb31fd86@mail.gmail.com>
	<4b65c2d70912290911j342855bdr20fb72bb5ac3b952@mail.gmail.com>
	<f3cd389f0912290922v5d9c018ep6cab13c4367ab000@mail.gmail.com>
	<4b65c2d70912290925i538103a4h58b0d9a73879b52b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <f160a1210912290931q4f99309ckd8a57f2142a1a85a@mail.gmail.com>

There are Peter Gannick and our own James Finnegan. There's also
Kate Gale at Red Hen Press.

PDF books don't count? If they do, then include me in (Vida Loca Books)
and include also Jukka-Pekka Kervinen at xpressed.

Hal

"We don't serve fine wine in half-pints, buddy."
                  --Robert Ashley

Halvard Johnson
================
halvard at gmail.com
http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home
http://entropyandme.blogspot.com
http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com
http://www.hamiltonstone.org


On Tue, Dec 29, 2009 at 11:25 AM, Anny Ballardini <anny.ballardini at gmail.com
> wrote:

> Thank you Catherine. I knew I was leaving out some V.I.P.s like our Mark
> Weiss. Do you have a publishing house Catherine?
>
>
> On Tue, Dec 29, 2009 at 6:22 PM, Catherine Daly <c.a.b.daly at gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> Janet Homes, Mark Weiss, Catherine Daly, Jonathan Galassi, Dan
>> Halpern, Douglas Messerli, Lawrence Ferlinghetti, Paul Vangelisti,
>> Jill Stengel, Suzanne Gardner, Charles Alexander, Guy Bennett, Joyelle
>> McSweeney, Shanna Compton...
>>
>> --
>> All best,
>> Catherine Daly
>> c.a.b.daly at gmail.com
>> _______________________________________________
>> New-Poetry mailing list
>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Anny Ballardini
> http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
> http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
> http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078
> http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html
> I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing
> star!
> Friedrich Nietzsche
>
> ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique
> vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ?
> Giovenale
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
>
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From anny.ballardini at gmail.com  Tue Dec 29 12:43:54 2009
From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 2009 18:43:54 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: Poet Editors
In-Reply-To: <f160a1210912290931q4f99309ckd8a57f2142a1a85a@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4b65c2d70912290910i45fa3bc1x4eef25d9cb31fd86@mail.gmail.com>
	<4b65c2d70912290911j342855bdr20fb72bb5ac3b952@mail.gmail.com>
	<f3cd389f0912290922v5d9c018ep6cab13c4367ab000@mail.gmail.com>
	<4b65c2d70912290925i538103a4h58b0d9a73879b52b@mail.gmail.com>
	<f160a1210912290931q4f99309ckd8a57f2142a1a85a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4b65c2d70912290943u54d9a801oecf3bb0c1b400643@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks, I remembered Peter Ganick and Jukka: only .pdf for Jukka?


On Tue, Dec 29, 2009 at 6:31 PM, Halvard Johnson <halvard at gmail.com> wrote:

> There are Peter Gannick and our own James Finnegan. There's also
> Kate Gale at Red Hen Press.
>
> PDF books don't count? If they do, then include me in (Vida Loca Books)
> and include also Jukka-Pekka Kervinen at xpressed.
>
> Hal
>
> "We don't serve fine wine in half-pints, buddy."
>                   --Robert Ashley
>
> Halvard Johnson
> ================
> halvard at gmail.com
> http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home
> http://entropyandme.blogspot.com
> http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com
> http://www.hamiltonstone.org
>
>
> On Tue, Dec 29, 2009 at 11:25 AM, Anny Ballardini <
> anny.ballardini at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Thank you Catherine. I knew I was leaving out some V.I.P.s like our Mark
>> Weiss. Do you have a publishing house Catherine?
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Dec 29, 2009 at 6:22 PM, Catherine Daly <c.a.b.daly at gmail.com>wrote:
>>
>>> Janet Homes, Mark Weiss, Catherine Daly, Jonathan Galassi, Dan
>>> Halpern, Douglas Messerli, Lawrence Ferlinghetti, Paul Vangelisti,
>>> Jill Stengel, Suzanne Gardner, Charles Alexander, Guy Bennett, Joyelle
>>> McSweeney, Shanna Compton...
>>>
>>> --
>>> All best,
>>> Catherine Daly
>>> c.a.b.daly at gmail.com
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> New-Poetry mailing list
>>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Anny Ballardini
>> http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
>> http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
>> http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078
>> http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html
>> I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing
>> star!
>> Friedrich Nietzsche
>>
>> ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique
>> vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ?
>> Giovenale
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> New-Poetry mailing list
>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
>


-- 
Anny Ballardini
http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078
http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html
I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing
star!
Friedrich Nietzsche

? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique
vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ?
Giovenale
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From anny.ballardini at gmail.com  Tue Dec 29 12:45:20 2009
From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 2009 18:45:20 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] New Pipe Organ Sounds Echo of Age of Bach
Message-ID: <4b65c2d70912290945w5b8acae1u6c85132cc202dd99@mail.gmail.com>

The effect was breathtaking. ?Each instrument speaks to you in a different
way,? said Hans Davidsson, a concert organist, sitting before the console of
the organ at the cavernous Christ Church, Episcopal, in Rochester. Dr.
Davidsson began to play the Bach hymn ?Gottes Sohn Ist Kommen? (?The Son of
God Has Come?), and an enormous, bell-clear sound exploded from the gleaming
pipes that soared above him.

The organ, the Craighead-Saunders, is a unique instrument, not only because
of its lovely sound, but also because it is a nearly exact copy of a late
Baroque organ built by Adam Gottlob Casparini of East Prussia in 1776. The
original stands in the Holy Ghost Church in Vilnius, Lithuania.

There is no other contemporary organ quite like the one at Christ Church.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/22/science/22organ.html?pagewanted=1&ref=science

and you can listen to some organ music while reading

-- 
Anny Ballardini
http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078
http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html
I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing
star!
Friedrich Nietzsche

? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique
vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ?
Giovenale
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From anny.ballardini at gmail.com  Tue Dec 29 13:21:06 2009
From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 2009 19:21:06 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: Poet Editors
In-Reply-To: <f3cd389f0912290931l59f9d3fbs88be16e534a701f4@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4b65c2d70912290910i45fa3bc1x4eef25d9cb31fd86@mail.gmail.com>
	<4b65c2d70912290911j342855bdr20fb72bb5ac3b952@mail.gmail.com>
	<f3cd389f0912290922v5d9c018ep6cab13c4367ab000@mail.gmail.com>
	<4b65c2d70912290925i538103a4h58b0d9a73879b52b@mail.gmail.com>
	<f3cd389f0912290931l59f9d3fbs88be16e534a701f4@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4b65c2d70912291021m86a2a6cu1660104abd2e4154@mail.gmail.com>

Congrats, and all the best,


On Tue, Dec 29, 2009 at 6:31 PM, Catherine Daly <c.a.b.daly at gmail.com>wrote:

> i.e. Press
>
> http://iepress.blogspot.com
>
> Sam Hamill (formerly), Sandra (Miller) Doller, Rusty Morrison, Rod
> Smith, William Howe...
>
>
> On Tue, Dec 29, 2009 at 9:25 AM, Anny Ballardini
> <anny.ballardini at gmail.com> wrote:
> > Thank you Catherine. I knew I was leaving out some V.I.P.s like our Mark
> > Weiss. Do you have a publishing house Catherine?
> >
> > On Tue, Dec 29, 2009 at 6:22 PM, Catherine Daly <c.a.b.daly at gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >>
> >> Janet Homes, Mark Weiss, Catherine Daly, Jonathan Galassi, Dan
> >> Halpern, Douglas Messerli, Lawrence Ferlinghetti, Paul Vangelisti,
> >> Jill Stengel, Suzanne Gardner, Charles Alexander, Guy Bennett, Joyelle
> >> McSweeney, Shanna Compton...
> >>
> >> --
> >> All best,
> >> Catherine Daly
> >> c.a.b.daly at gmail.com
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> New-Poetry mailing list
> >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Anny Ballardini
> > http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
> > http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
> > http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078
> > http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html
> > I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing
> > star!
> > Friedrich Nietzsche
> >
> > ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique
> > vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ?
> > Giovenale
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > New-Poetry mailing list
> > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
> >
> >
>
>
>
> --
> All best,
> Catherine Daly
> c.a.b.daly at gmail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>



-- 
Anny Ballardini
http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078
http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html
I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing
star!
Friedrich Nietzsche

? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique
vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ?
Giovenale
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From halvard at gmail.com  Tue Dec 29 13:21:33 2009
From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson)
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 2009 12:21:33 -0600
Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: Poet Editors
In-Reply-To: <4b65c2d70912290943u54d9a801oecf3bb0c1b400643@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4b65c2d70912290910i45fa3bc1x4eef25d9cb31fd86@mail.gmail.com>
	<4b65c2d70912290911j342855bdr20fb72bb5ac3b952@mail.gmail.com>
	<f3cd389f0912290922v5d9c018ep6cab13c4367ab000@mail.gmail.com>
	<4b65c2d70912290925i538103a4h58b0d9a73879b52b@mail.gmail.com>
	<f160a1210912290931q4f99309ckd8a57f2142a1a85a@mail.gmail.com>
	<4b65c2d70912290943u54d9a801oecf3bb0c1b400643@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <f160a1210912291021l650b86ffk10426dec194bc5d3@mail.gmail.com>

Believe so.

Hal

"We don't serve fine wine in half-pints, buddy."
                  --Robert Ashley

Halvard Johnson
================
halvard at gmail.com
http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home
http://entropyandme.blogspot.com
http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com
http://www.hamiltonstone.org


On Tue, Dec 29, 2009 at 11:43 AM, Anny Ballardini <anny.ballardini at gmail.com
> wrote:

> Thanks, I remembered Peter Ganick and Jukka: only .pdf for Jukka?
>
>
>
> On Tue, Dec 29, 2009 at 6:31 PM, Halvard Johnson <halvard at gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> There are Peter Gannick and our own James Finnegan. There's also
>> Kate Gale at Red Hen Press.
>>
>> PDF books don't count? If they do, then include me in (Vida Loca Books)
>> and include also Jukka-Pekka Kervinen at xpressed.
>>
>> Hal
>>
>> "We don't serve fine wine in half-pints, buddy."
>>                   --Robert Ashley
>>
>> Halvard Johnson
>> ================
>> halvard at gmail.com
>> http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home
>> http://entropyandme.blogspot.com
>> http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com
>> http://www.hamiltonstone.org
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Dec 29, 2009 at 11:25 AM, Anny Ballardini <
>> anny.ballardini at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Thank you Catherine. I knew I was leaving out some V.I.P.s like our Mark
>>> Weiss. Do you have a publishing house Catherine?
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Dec 29, 2009 at 6:22 PM, Catherine Daly <c.a.b.daly at gmail.com>wrote:
>>>
>>>> Janet Homes, Mark Weiss, Catherine Daly, Jonathan Galassi, Dan
>>>> Halpern, Douglas Messerli, Lawrence Ferlinghetti, Paul Vangelisti,
>>>> Jill Stengel, Suzanne Gardner, Charles Alexander, Guy Bennett, Joyelle
>>>> McSweeney, Shanna Compton...
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> All best,
>>>> Catherine Daly
>>>> c.a.b.daly at gmail.com
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> New-Poetry mailing list
>>>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>>>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Anny Ballardini
>>> http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
>>> http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
>>> http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078
>>> http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html
>>> I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing
>>> star!
>>> Friedrich Nietzsche
>>>
>>> ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique
>>> vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ?
>>> Giovenale
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> New-Poetry mailing list
>>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>>>
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> New-Poetry mailing list
>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Anny Ballardini
> http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
> http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
> http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078
> http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html
> I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing
> star!
> Friedrich Nietzsche
>
> ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique
> vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ?
> Giovenale
>
>
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From jschickling at hotmail.com  Tue Dec 29 15:40:23 2009
From: jschickling at hotmail.com (jared schickling)
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 2009 15:40:23 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Poet Editors
In-Reply-To: <200912291605.nBTG5qYA023442@wiz.cath.vt.edu>
References: <200912291605.nBTG5qYA023442@wiz.cath.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <SNT130-w535FF512CB37E6C3157C49B07A0@phx.gbl>


I'm responding to the "poet editors" posting/question -- mostly because it surprised me.  But first let me say hello, and thank you for letting me join the list.  I've enjoyed the no b.s. poetry talk on this list for a few months now.

 

I guess the question surprised me because at least as far as I can see there are more book-roducing poets working as poetry rag/book editors than is otherwise the case.  Some that come to mind off the top of my head -- Matthew Rohrer, Peter Campion, Lyn Hejinian, Joshua Beckman, Sasha Steensen, Jared Schickling, Richard Owens, Nate Pritts, the Quartermains, Julie Carr, Noah Eli Gordon, John Bloomberg-Rissman, Christian Peet and of course many more -- the names here are of head honchos at various presses, last I saw anyway, we could really exhaust ourselves if we listed all the "lesser" various editorial capacities book-producing poets fill.  


Anyway thanks again.  Suppose I chose to respond to this one as I'm working with four different presses and co-running another, so this editing things eats a substantial portion of my life. 

 

Jared Schickling

 

 
> Date: Tue, 29 Dec 2009 11:05:54 -0500
> From: new-poetry-request at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> Subject: New-Poetry Digest, Vol 66, Issue 37
> To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> 
> Send New-Poetry mailing list submissions to
> new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> 
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> new-poetry-request at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> 
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> new-poetry-owner at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> 
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of New-Poetry digest..."
> 
> 
> Today's Topics:
> 
> 1. Best Poetry Blogs by Joseph Hutchison (jforjames at aol.com)
> 2. Show Me State Po Laureate Process (jforjames at aol.com)
> 3. Re: Best Poetry Blogs by Joseph Hutchison (TheOldMole)
> 4. How has poetry changed in the past ten years? (jforjames at aol.com)
> 5. Re: Best Poetry Blogs by Joseph Hutchison (Anny Ballardini)
> 6. WorldPo: Agentine Scene (jforjames at aol.com)
> 7. WorldPo: Argentine Scene (corrected caption) (jforjames at aol.com)
> 8. Perceval Press (jforjames at aol.com)
> 9. Re: Perceval Press (Anny Ballardini)
> 10. Poet Editors (Anny Ballardini)
> 11. Fwd: Poet Editors (Anny Ballardini)
> 12. Re: Poet Editors (Halvard Johnson)
> 13. Re: Poet Editors (Anny Ballardini)
> 14. Re: Fwd: Poet Editors (Catherine Daly)
> 15. Re: Fwd: Poet Editors (Anny Ballardini)
> 16. Re: Fwd: Poet Editors (Catherine Daly)
> 17. Re: Fwd: Poet Editors (Halvard Johnson)
> 18. Re: Fwd: Poet Editors (Anny Ballardini)
> 
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Message: 1
> Date: Mon, 28 Dec 2009 18:35:15 -0500
> From: jforjames at aol.com
> Subject: [New-Poetry] Best Poetry Blogs by Joseph Hutchison
> To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> Message-ID: <8CC562D8A8619B6-8A20-2DA77 at webmail-m031.sysops.aol.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> 
> 
> http://resourcesforwriters.suite101.com/article.cfm/poetry_blogs_a_bakers_dozen_of_the_best
> 
> The Web offers terrific resources for poets, and among the most useful are poetry blogs. They address a need that all poets have for a circle of like-minded people devoted to sharing their knowledge and passion about poetry. This is especially important for poets whose local communities don?t offer poetry groups and for poets who can?t afford the hefty cost of an MFA program. Poetry blogs help readers keep up on new publications, issues of craft, poetic trends, and strategies for dealing with more pragmatic aspects of the writing life.
> 
> The trick, of course, is ferreting out the most valuable blogs from the thousands available. 
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> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 2
> Date: Mon, 28 Dec 2009 18:50:10 -0500
> From: jforjames at aol.com
> Subject: [New-Poetry] Show Me State Po Laureate Process
> To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> Message-ID: <8CC562FA0253796-8A20-2DD4D at webmail-m031.sysops.aol.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> 
> 
> http://www.infozine.com/news/stories/op/storiesView/sid/39239/
> Jefferson City, Mo - infoZine - Gov. Jay Nixon signed an executive order establishing the procedure that will be used to select Missouri's second poet laureate.
> 
> "Missouri has produced generations of powerful, inspirational and compelling poets and writers, including such timeless bards as Samuel Clemens, Maya Angelou and Laura Ingalls Wilder," Gov. Nixon said. "By selecting a poet laureate, we pay tribute to these brilliant artists, and we hope to inspire the poets and authors of the future. 
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> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 3
> Date: Mon, 28 Dec 2009 20:02:45 -0500
> From: TheOldMole <Opus40-01 at opus40.org>
> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Best Poetry Blogs by Joseph Hutchison
> To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &amp; Views"
> <new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
> Message-ID: <4B395535.6070506 at opus40.org>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
> 
> Kudos to Chris Lott!
> 
> jforjames at aol.com wrote:
> > http://resourcesforwriters.suite101.com/article.cfm/poetry_blogs_a_bakers_dozen_of_the_best
> > 
> > The Web offers terrific resources for poets, and among the most useful 
> > are poetry blogs. They address a need that all poets have for a circle 
> > of like-minded people devoted to sharing their knowledge and passion 
> > about poetry. This is especially important for poets whose local 
> > communities don?t offer poetry groups and for poets who can?t afford 
> > the hefty cost of an MFA program. Poetry blogs help readers keep up on 
> > new publications, issues of craft, poetic trends, and strategies for 
> > dealing with more pragmatic aspects of the writing life.
> > The trick, of course, is ferreting out the most valuable blogs from 
> > the thousands available.
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > New-Poetry mailing list
> > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
> > 
> 
> -- 
> Tad Richards
> Read my NY Writing Careers Examiner column today!
> http://www.examiner.com/x-2862-NY-Writing-Careers-Examiner
> 
> http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/
> http://opusforty.blogspot.com/
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 4
> Date: Mon, 28 Dec 2009 22:16:34 -0500
> From: jforjames at aol.com
> Subject: [New-Poetry] How has poetry changed in the past ten years? 
> To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> Message-ID: <8CC564C75A18BCC-DD0-5DA23 at webmail-d061.sysops.aol.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> 
> 
> http://www.poetryfoundation.org/journal/article.html?id=238430
> 
> The past ten years have changed poetry in ways that have shocked and delighted even the most forward-thinking readers and writers. Online communities have flourished, dominant paradigms have shifted, and readers have found new solace in traditional forms. Poetry?and poetry communities?will never be the same. We asked poets and critics whose work has had a wide influence over the art form to describe the poetry ?event? that most shaped their view of the decade. They focused on events both private and public, and their responses reveal that poetry in the new decade will continue to be a living, breathing, and ever-changing thing.?The Editors
> =
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> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 5
> Date: Tue, 29 Dec 2009 07:20:16 +0100
> From: Anny Ballardini <anny.ballardini at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Best Poetry Blogs by Joseph Hutchison
> To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &amp, Views"
> <new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
> Message-ID:
> <4b65c2d70912282220s2312e999x76d2908b64a3ebda at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"
> 
> Oh yes, all proud for Chris, and Ron Silliman, and the Isola dei Rifiuti,
> should I have a day of 124 hours, here is my lament.
> 
> 
> On Tue, Dec 29, 2009 at 2:02 AM, TheOldMole <Opus40-01 at opus40.org> wrote:
> 
> > Kudos to Chris Lott!
> >
> > jforjames at aol.com wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> http://resourcesforwriters.suite101.com/article.cfm/poetry_blogs_a_bakers_dozen_of_the_best
> >> The Web offers terrific resources for poets, and among the most useful
> >> are poetry blogs. They address a need that all poets have for a circle of
> >> like-minded people devoted to sharing their knowledge and passion about
> >> poetry. This is especially important for poets whose local communities don?t
> >> offer poetry groups and for poets who can?t afford the hefty cost of an MFA
> >> program. Poetry blogs help readers keep up on new publications, issues of
> >> craft, poetic trends, and strategies for dealing with more pragmatic aspects
> >> of the writing life.
> >> The trick, of course, is ferreting out the most valuable blogs from the
> >> thousands available.
> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> New-Poetry mailing list
> >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
> >>
> >>
> >
> > --
> > Tad Richards
> > Read my NY Writing Careers Examiner column today!
> > http://www.examiner.com/x-2862-NY-Writing-Careers-Examiner
> >
> > http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/
> > http://opusforty.blogspot.com/
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > New-Poetry mailing list
> > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
> >
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Anny Ballardini
> http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
> http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
> http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078
> http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html
> I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing
> star!
> Friedrich Nietzsche
> 
> ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique
> vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ?
> Giovenale
> -------------- next part --------------
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> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 6
> Date: Tue, 29 Dec 2009 10:59:30 -0500
> From: jforjames at aol.com
> Subject: [New-Poetry] WorldPo: Agentine Scene
> To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> Message-ID: <8CC56B70A9124CC-3434-62843 at webmail-m033.sysops.aol.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> 
> 
> http://www.guardianweekly.co.uk/?page=editorial&id=1398&catID=10
> "In Buenos Aires particularly, because of the falling peso and the cost of goods going up, cardboard suddenly became a valuable commodity. There emerged a new unofficial sector of cardboard collectors, called cartoneros. A number of poets and editors got together with a group of cartoneros to set up their own publishing company. They printed pages using a photocopier and bound them between cardboard covers, which were then hand painted to produce artisanal books that are very suited to collections of poetry and short stories.? The venture is named Elo?sa Cartonera, highlighting its origins in unofficial recycling.
> 
> This new way of publishing also ushered in new styles of writing, making Argentine poetry more accessible. As apparent proof of its growing appeal Sergio Raimondi, an exponent of this new approach, won a Guggenheim memorial fellowship in 2007.
> 
> ?Raimondi is such an important writer because his style of writing is capable of overcoming the impasse that many felt existed in Argentine poetry between writing earlier styles of experimental poetry and writing poetry that is able to address everyday question of politics and poverty,? says Bollig. ?What you get with Raimondi in works such as his Poes?a civil collection is an attempt to address political questions around historical memory and the legacy of the dictatorship without losing the attention to poetry as being poetic.?
> 
> ...
> 
> Poems from eminent writers are often collected into anthologies and there is often debate over who is and is not included ? none more so recently than when Hollywood actor Viggo Mortensen funded and published an anthology through his own company, Perceval. ?It seemed strange that someone who most people have seen in the Lord of Rings should have such a sideline,? says Bollig. ?He is actually a lover of Argentine poetry and he spent about eight years living in Argentina from the age of three. The publicity the anthology received has given tremendous impetus to Argentine poetry.?
> 
> -------------- next part --------------
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> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 7
> Date: Tue, 29 Dec 2009 11:01:09 -0500
> From: jforjames at aol.com
> Subject: [New-Poetry] WorldPo: Argentine Scene (corrected caption)
> To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> Message-ID: <8CC56B74527DCAC-3434-628CE at webmail-m033.sysops.aol.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> 
> Let's try that again...
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: jforjames at aol.com
> To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> Sent: Tue, Dec 29, 2009 10:59 am
> 
> 
> http://www.guardianweekly.co.uk/?page=editorial&id=1398&catID=10
> "In Buenos Aires particularly, because of the falling peso and the cost of goods going up, cardboard suddenly became a valuable commodity. There emerged a new unofficial sector of cardboard collectors, called cartoneros. A number of poets and editors got together with a group of cartoneros to set up their own publishing company. They printed pages using a photocopier and bound them between cardboard covers, which were then hand painted to produce artisanal books that are very suited to collections of poetry and short stories.? The venture is named Elo?sa Cartonera, highlighting its origins in unofficial recycling.
> 
> This new way of publishing also ushered in new styles of writing, making Argentine poetry more accessible. As apparent proof of its growing appeal Sergio Raimondi, an exponent of this new approach, won a Guggenheim memorial fellowship in 2007.
> 
> ?Raimondi is such an important writer because his style of writing is capable of overcoming the impasse that many felt existed in Argentine poetry between writing earlier styles of experimental poetry and writing poetry that is able to address everyday question of politics and poverty,? says Bollig. ?What you get with Raimondi in works such as his Poes?a civil collection is an attempt to address political questions around historical memory and the legacy of the dictatorship without losing the attention to poetry as being poetic.?
> 
> ...
> 
> Poems from eminent writers are often collected into anthologies and there is often debate over who is and is not included ? none more so recently than when Hollywood actor Viggo Mortensen funded and published an anthology through his own company, Perceval. ?It seemed strange that someone who most people have seen in the Lord of Rings should have such a sideline,? says Bollig. ?He is actually a lover of Argentine poetry and he spent about eight years living in Argentina from the age of three. The publicity the anthology received has given tremendous impetus to Argentine poetry.?
> 
> 
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> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 8
> Date: Tue, 29 Dec 2009 11:38:25 -0500
> From: jforjames at aol.com
> Subject: [New-Poetry] Perceval Press
> To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> Message-ID: <8CC56BC7A33622C-469C-938 at webmail-m033.sysops.aol.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> 
> http://www.percevalpress.com/index.html
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> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 9
> Date: Tue, 29 Dec 2009 17:57:49 +0100
> From: Anny Ballardini <anny.ballardini at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Perceval Press
> To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &amp, Views"
> <new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
> Message-ID:
> <4b65c2d70912290857q5bcc2638gac09b807fcfc701 at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
> 
> Beautiful pictures!
> 
> On Tue, Dec 29, 2009 at 5:38 PM, <jforjames at aol.com> wrote:
> 
> > http://www.percevalpress.com/index.html
> > _______________________________________________
> > New-Poetry mailing list
> > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
> >
> >
> 
> 
> -- 
> Anny Ballardini
> http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
> http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
> http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078
> http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html
> I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing
> star!
> Friedrich Nietzsche
> 
> ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique
> vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ?
> Giovenale
> -------------- next part --------------
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> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 10
> Date: Tue, 29 Dec 2009 18:10:09 +0100
> From: Anny Ballardini <anny.ballardini at gmail.com>
> Subject: [New-Poetry] Poet Editors
> To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &amp, Views"
> <new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
> Message-ID:
> <4b65c2d70912290910i45fa3bc1x4eef25d9cb31fd86 at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
> 
> I was wondering, besides Mark Young, Eileen Tabios, Geoffrey Gatza, William
> Allegrezza, Bill Lavender, David Baratier, Susan Schultz, Jesse Glass,
> are there any other Poet Editors?
> 
> Thank you, Anny
> 
> -- 
> Anny Ballardini
> http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
> http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
> http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078
> http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html
> I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing
> star!
> Friedrich Nietzsche
> 
> ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique
> vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ?
> Giovenale
> -------------- next part --------------
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20091229/63be2cde/attachment-0001.html
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 11
> Date: Tue, 29 Dec 2009 18:11:28 +0100
> From: Anny Ballardini <anny.ballardini at gmail.com>
> Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: Poet Editors
> To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &amp, Views"
> <new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
> Message-ID:
> <4b65c2d70912290911j342855bdr20fb72bb5ac3b952 at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
> 
> Sorry, I sent before ending my message, Editors supported by a press, not
> only online Editors.
> 
> 
> 
> I was wondering, besides Mark Young, Eileen Tabios, Geoffrey Gatza, William
> Allegrezza, Bill Lavender, David Baratier, Susan Schultz, Jesse Glass,
> are there any other Poet Editors?
> 
> Thank you, Anny
> 
> -- 
> Anny Ballardini
> http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
> http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
> http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078
> http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html
> I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing
> star!
> Friedrich Nietzsche
> 
> ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique
> vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ?
> Giovenale
> -------------- next part --------------
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20091229/389b6acf/attachment-0001.html
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 12
> Date: Tue, 29 Dec 2009 11:13:33 -0600
> From: Halvard Johnson <halvard at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Poet Editors
> To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &amp, Views"
> <new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
> Message-ID:
> <f160a1210912290913k19844196t131ce1a07dd43110 at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
> 
> Let's see, there's Anny Ballardini.
> 
> Hal
> 
> "We don't serve fine wine in half-pints, buddy."
> --Robert Ashley
> 
> Halvard Johnson
> ================
> halvard at gmail.com
> http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home
> http://entropyandme.blogspot.com
> http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com
> http://www.hamiltonstone.org
> 
> 
> On Tue, Dec 29, 2009 at 11:10 AM, Anny Ballardini <anny.ballardini at gmail.com
> > wrote:
> 
> > I was wondering, besides Mark Young, Eileen Tabios, Geoffrey Gatza, William
> > Allegrezza, Bill Lavender, David Baratier, Susan Schultz, Jesse Glass,
> > are there any other Poet Editors?
> >
> > Thank you, Anny
> >
> > --
> > Anny Ballardini
> > http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
> > http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
> > http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078
> > http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html
> > I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing
> > star!
> > Friedrich Nietzsche
> >
> > ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique
> > vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ?
> > Giovenale
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > New-Poetry mailing list
> > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
> >
> >
> -------------- next part --------------
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
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> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 13
> Date: Tue, 29 Dec 2009 18:17:20 +0100
> From: Anny Ballardini <anny.ballardini at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Poet Editors
> To: halvard at gmail.com, "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &amp,
> Views" <new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
> Message-ID:
> <4b65c2d70912290917t4cb976a3n9b16f9f921648fa at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
> 
> Lovely Hal, thank you, I forwarded another message, I meant *Editors who
> produce books*. I know there are also Halvard Johnson and James Cervantes
> for a great online reading!
> Cheers
> 
> On Tue, Dec 29, 2009 at 6:13 PM, Halvard Johnson <halvard at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> > Let's see, there's Anny Ballardini.
> >
> > Hal
> >
> > "We don't serve fine wine in half-pints, buddy."
> > --Robert Ashley
> >
> > Halvard Johnson
> > ================
> > halvard at gmail.com
> > http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home
> > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com
> > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com
> > http://www.hamiltonstone.org
> >
> >
> > On Tue, Dec 29, 2009 at 11:10 AM, Anny Ballardini <
> > anny.ballardini at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> I was wondering, besides Mark Young, Eileen Tabios, Geoffrey Gatza,
> >> William Allegrezza, Bill Lavender, David Baratier, Susan Schultz, Jesse
> >> Glass,
> >> are there any other Poet Editors?
> >>
> >> Thank you, Anny
> >>
> >> --
> >> Anny Ballardini
> >> http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
> >> http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
> >> http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078
> >> http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html
> >> I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing
> >> star!
> >> Friedrich Nietzsche
> >>
> >> ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique
> >> vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ?
> >> Giovenale
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> New-Poetry mailing list
> >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
> >>
> >>
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > New-Poetry mailing list
> > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
> >
> >
> 
> 
> -- 
> Anny Ballardini
> http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
> http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
> http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078
> http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html
> I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing
> star!
> Friedrich Nietzsche
> 
> ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique
> vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ?
> Giovenale
> -------------- next part --------------
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20091229/f759c2d2/attachment-0001.html
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 14
> Date: Tue, 29 Dec 2009 09:22:04 -0800
> From: Catherine Daly <c.a.b.daly at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Fwd: Poet Editors
> To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &amp, Views"
> <new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
> Message-ID:
> <f3cd389f0912290922v5d9c018ep6cab13c4367ab000 at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
> 
> Janet Homes, Mark Weiss, Catherine Daly, Jonathan Galassi, Dan
> Halpern, Douglas Messerli, Lawrence Ferlinghetti, Paul Vangelisti,
> Jill Stengel, Suzanne Gardner, Charles Alexander, Guy Bennett, Joyelle
> McSweeney, Shanna Compton...
> 
> -- 
> All best,
> Catherine Daly
> c.a.b.daly at gmail.com
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 15
> Date: Tue, 29 Dec 2009 18:25:25 +0100
> From: Anny Ballardini <anny.ballardini at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Fwd: Poet Editors
> To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &amp, Views"
> <new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
> Message-ID:
> <4b65c2d70912290925i538103a4h58b0d9a73879b52b at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
> 
> Thank you Catherine. I knew I was leaving out some V.I.P.s like our Mark
> Weiss. Do you have a publishing house Catherine?
> 
> On Tue, Dec 29, 2009 at 6:22 PM, Catherine Daly <c.a.b.daly at gmail.com>wrote:
> 
> > Janet Homes, Mark Weiss, Catherine Daly, Jonathan Galassi, Dan
> > Halpern, Douglas Messerli, Lawrence Ferlinghetti, Paul Vangelisti,
> > Jill Stengel, Suzanne Gardner, Charles Alexander, Guy Bennett, Joyelle
> > McSweeney, Shanna Compton...
> >
> > --
> > All best,
> > Catherine Daly
> > c.a.b.daly at gmail.com
> > _______________________________________________
> > New-Poetry mailing list
> > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
> >
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Anny Ballardini
> http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
> http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
> http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078
> http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html
> I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing
> star!
> Friedrich Nietzsche
> 
> ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique
> vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ?
> Giovenale
> -------------- next part --------------
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20091229/488002c3/attachment-0001.html
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 16
> Date: Tue, 29 Dec 2009 09:31:08 -0800
> From: Catherine Daly <c.a.b.daly at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Fwd: Poet Editors
> To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &amp, Views"
> <new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
> Message-ID:
> <f3cd389f0912290931l59f9d3fbs88be16e534a701f4 at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
> 
> i.e. Press
> 
> http://iepress.blogspot.com
> 
> Sam Hamill (formerly), Sandra (Miller) Doller, Rusty Morrison, Rod
> Smith, William Howe...
> 
> 
> On Tue, Dec 29, 2009 at 9:25 AM, Anny Ballardini
> <anny.ballardini at gmail.com> wrote:
> > Thank you Catherine. I knew I was leaving out some V.I.P.s like our Mark
> > Weiss. Do you have a publishing house Catherine?
> >
> > On Tue, Dec 29, 2009 at 6:22 PM, Catherine Daly <c.a.b.daly at gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >>
> >> Janet Homes, Mark Weiss, Catherine Daly, Jonathan Galassi, Dan
> >> Halpern, Douglas Messerli, Lawrence Ferlinghetti, Paul Vangelisti,
> >> Jill Stengel, Suzanne Gardner, Charles Alexander, Guy Bennett, Joyelle
> >> McSweeney, Shanna Compton...
> >>
> >> --
> >> All best,
> >> Catherine Daly
> >> c.a.b.daly at gmail.com
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> New-Poetry mailing list
> >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Anny Ballardini
> > http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
> > http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
> > http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078
> > http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html
> > I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing
> > star!
> > Friedrich Nietzsche
> >
> > ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique
> > vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ?
> > Giovenale
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > New-Poetry mailing list
> > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
> >
> >
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> All best,
> Catherine Daly
> c.a.b.daly at gmail.com
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 17
> Date: Tue, 29 Dec 2009 11:31:38 -0600
> From: Halvard Johnson <halvard at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Fwd: Poet Editors
> To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &amp, Views"
> <new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
> Message-ID:
> <f160a1210912290931q4f99309ckd8a57f2142a1a85a at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
> 
> There are Peter Gannick and our own James Finnegan. There's also
> Kate Gale at Red Hen Press.
> 
> PDF books don't count? If they do, then include me in (Vida Loca Books)
> and include also Jukka-Pekka Kervinen at xpressed.
> 
> Hal
> 
> "We don't serve fine wine in half-pints, buddy."
> --Robert Ashley
> 
> Halvard Johnson
> ================
> halvard at gmail.com
> http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home
> http://entropyandme.blogspot.com
> http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com
> http://www.hamiltonstone.org
> 
> 
> On Tue, Dec 29, 2009 at 11:25 AM, Anny Ballardini <anny.ballardini at gmail.com
> > wrote:
> 
> > Thank you Catherine. I knew I was leaving out some V.I.P.s like our Mark
> > Weiss. Do you have a publishing house Catherine?
> >
> >
> > On Tue, Dec 29, 2009 at 6:22 PM, Catherine Daly <c.a.b.daly at gmail.com>wrote:
> >
> >> Janet Homes, Mark Weiss, Catherine Daly, Jonathan Galassi, Dan
> >> Halpern, Douglas Messerli, Lawrence Ferlinghetti, Paul Vangelisti,
> >> Jill Stengel, Suzanne Gardner, Charles Alexander, Guy Bennett, Joyelle
> >> McSweeney, Shanna Compton...
> >>
> >> --
> >> All best,
> >> Catherine Daly
> >> c.a.b.daly at gmail.com
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> New-Poetry mailing list
> >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Anny Ballardini
> > http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
> > http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
> > http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078
> > http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html
> > I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing
> > star!
> > Friedrich Nietzsche
> >
> > ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique
> > vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ?
> > Giovenale
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > New-Poetry mailing list
> > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
> >
> >
> -------------- next part --------------
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20091229/7176ba47/attachment-0001.html
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 18
> Date: Tue, 29 Dec 2009 18:43:54 +0100
> From: Anny Ballardini <anny.ballardini at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Fwd: Poet Editors
> To: halvard at gmail.com, "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &amp,
> Views" <new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
> Message-ID:
> <4b65c2d70912290943u54d9a801oecf3bb0c1b400643 at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
> 
> Thanks, I remembered Peter Ganick and Jukka: only .pdf for Jukka?
> 
> 
> On Tue, Dec 29, 2009 at 6:31 PM, Halvard Johnson <halvard at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> > There are Peter Gannick and our own James Finnegan. There's also
> > Kate Gale at Red Hen Press.
> >
> > PDF books don't count? If they do, then include me in (Vida Loca Books)
> > and include also Jukka-Pekka Kervinen at xpressed.
> >
> > Hal
> >
> > "We don't serve fine wine in half-pints, buddy."
> > --Robert Ashley
> >
> > Halvard Johnson
> > ================
> > halvard at gmail.com
> > http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home
> > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com
> > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com
> > http://www.hamiltonstone.org
> >
> >
> > On Tue, Dec 29, 2009 at 11:25 AM, Anny Ballardini <
> > anny.ballardini at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> Thank you Catherine. I knew I was leaving out some V.I.P.s like our Mark
> >> Weiss. Do you have a publishing house Catherine?
> >>
> >>
> >> On Tue, Dec 29, 2009 at 6:22 PM, Catherine Daly <c.a.b.daly at gmail.com>wrote:
> >>
> >>> Janet Homes, Mark Weiss, Catherine Daly, Jonathan Galassi, Dan
> >>> Halpern, Douglas Messerli, Lawrence Ferlinghetti, Paul Vangelisti,
> >>> Jill Stengel, Suzanne Gardner, Charles Alexander, Guy Bennett, Joyelle
> >>> McSweeney, Shanna Compton...
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> All best,
> >>> Catherine Daly
> >>> c.a.b.daly at gmail.com
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> New-Poetry mailing list
> >>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> >>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Anny Ballardini
> >> http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
> >> http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
> >> http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078
> >> http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html
> >> I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing
> >> star!
> >> Friedrich Nietzsche
> >>
> >> ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique
> >> vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ?
> >> Giovenale
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> New-Poetry mailing list
> >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
> >>
> >>
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > New-Poetry mailing list
> > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
> >
> >
> 
> 
> -- 
> Anny Ballardini
> http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
> http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
> http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078
> http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html
> I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing
> star!
> Friedrich Nietzsche
> 
> ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique
> vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ?
> Giovenale
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> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
> 
> 
> End of New-Poetry Digest, Vol 66, Issue 37
> ******************************************
 		 	   		  
_________________________________________________________________
Hotmail: Free, trusted and rich email service.
http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/171222984/direct/01/
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From c.a.b.daly at gmail.com  Tue Dec 29 15:47:09 2009
From: c.a.b.daly at gmail.com (Catherine Daly)
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 2009 12:47:09 -0800
Subject: [New-Poetry] Poet Editors
In-Reply-To: <SNT130-w535FF512CB37E6C3157C49B07A0@phx.gbl>
References: <200912291605.nBTG5qYA023442@wiz.cath.vt.edu>
	<SNT130-w535FF512CB37E6C3157C49B07A0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <f3cd389f0912291247u1d86211fy5687b9e0e8a4c1ea@mail.gmail.com>

Leslie Scalapino

Judy Grahn


-- 
All best,
Catherine Daly
c.a.b.daly at gmail.com


From anny.ballardini at gmail.com  Tue Dec 29 16:23:53 2009
From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 2009 22:23:53 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] best...
Message-ID: <4b65c2d70912291323t12500729g8f50bdde78631300@mail.gmail.com>

the 100 best books of the decade (Cormac McCarthey!):
http://entertainment.timesonline.co.uk/tol/arts_and_entertainment/books/book_reviews/article6914181.ece



-- 
Anny Ballardini
http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078
http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html
I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing
star!
Friedrich Nietzsche

? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique
vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ?
Giovenale
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From jforjames at aol.com  Tue Dec 29 17:16:31 2009
From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 2009 17:16:31 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Poet Editors
In-Reply-To: <SNT130-w535FF512CB37E6C3157C49B07A0@phx.gbl>
References: <200912291605.nBTG5qYA023442@wiz.cath.vt.edu>
	<SNT130-w535FF512CB37E6C3157C49B07A0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <8CC56EBB577FA8C-14E0-38DFC@webmail-d077.sysops.aol.com>


Thanks for jumping in, Jared. I appreciate your good words about the list, but I'm sure you'll encounter some b.s. soon enough. 

Regarding Anny's question, I was thinking the same thing: It could be a shorter list to name editors who are not also poets. Or to ask how many poet-editors can really support themselves (as paid staff) with revenues from their presses?...That would be a shorter list too.

>From the little I've done, I really do appreciate the efforts of all the poet-editors out there...
I need to correct Hal a bit...I do intend to put one title in 2010, but I'm on a pace of one book every two years.
So I don't think I qualify for the poet-editor designation. (Come to think of it I need to renew my poet designation, too, by publishing something.)

But some other names to throw into the mix...
 
Tupelo Press' Jeffrey Levine is a busy poet-editor.
http://www.tupelopress.org/about.php

Sarabande Press, of which I was witness to its birth & infancy, has two poet-editors: Sarah Gorham with help from Jeffrey Skinner (husband and wife team).
http://www.sarabandebooks.org/?page_id=1141

On a sad note, it was announced by letter last week that Curbstone Press of Willimantic CT 
http://curbstone.org/index.cfm?webpage=29
is being folded in Northwestern University Press as an 'imprint'. I guess that's better than Curbstone going completely kaput. Curbstone was held together for years by the efforts of Alexander 'Sandy' Taylor and Judy Doyle (another husband & wife team); he died about a year or so ago and then she fell ill. The press has limped along looking for new leadership during a time of very stressed grant/donation funding. So it goes. 

Often these presses start as one poet's labor of love, or as a way to provide publishing means for one's poet friends who are struggling to get books out. Then by luck &/or dint of effort, a few small presses suddenly get bigger and end up taking over the lives of the editors, making their writing lives secondary. 

Finnegan

-----Original Message-----
From: jared schickling <jschickling at hotmail.com>
To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
Sent: Tue, Dec 29, 2009 3:40 pm
Subject: [New-Poetry] Poet Editors


I'm responding to the "poet editors" posting/question -- mostly because it surprised me.  But first let me say hello, and thank you for letting me join the list.  I've enjoyed the no b.s. poetry talk on this list for a few months now.
 
I guess the question surprised me because at least as far as I can see there are more book-roducing poets working as poetry rag/book editors than is otherwise the case.  Some that come to mind off the top of my head -- Matthew Rohrer, Peter Campion, Lyn Hejinian, Joshua Beckman, Sasha Steensen, Jared Schickling, Richard Owens, Nate Pritts, the Quartermains, Julie Carr, Noah Eli Gordon, John Bloomberg-Rissman, Christian Peet and of course many more -- the names here are of head honchos at various presses, last I saw anyway, we could really exhaust ourselves if we listed all the "lesser" various editorial capacities book-producing poets fill.  

Anyway thanks again.  Suppose I chose to respond to this one as I'm working with four different presses and co-running another, so this editing things eats a substantial portion of my life. 
 
Jared Schickling
 
 > 
> I was wondering, besides Mark Young, Eileen Tabios, Geoffrey Gatza, William
> Allegrezza, Bill Lavender, David Baratier, Susan Schultz, Jesse Glass,
> are there any other Poet Editors?
> 
> Sorry, I sent before ending my message, Editors supported by a press, not
> only online Editors.
> 
> 
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From jforjames at aol.com  Tue Dec 29 18:51:24 2009
From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 2009 18:51:24 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Response to a rejection slip by Wm. Gass
Message-ID: <8CC56F8F6A6AC0C-3588-2C3EA@webmail-d022.sysops.aol.com>


Well put...
http://thisrecording.com/today/2009/10/26/in-which-the-selected-correspondence-of-william-gass-inflame.html
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From jforjames at aol.com  Tue Dec 29 19:58:51 2009
From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 2009 19:58:51 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Poet Editors
In-Reply-To: <8CC56EBB577FA8C-14E0-38DFC@webmail-d077.sysops.aol.com>
References: <8CC56EBB577FA8C-14E0-38DFC@webmail-d077.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <8CC57026246E709-3588-2D143@webmail-d022.sysops.aol.com>



Another couple of poet-editors...

Gian Lombardo of Quale Press
http://www.quale.com/
He's does a good number of books and has made the prose poem a specialty of the press. I think he teaches at Emerson College; teaches publishing/book design or something like that. That makes think that every MFA graduate should be required to give 3/6 credit hours to literary publishing. It should be part of the core the curriculum and not an option.

Then there's a poet Rene McQuilkin, known locally as the founder the Sunken Garden Reading Series, who started a press a few years ago. His press Antrim House 
http://www.antrimhousebooks.com/
has put out a great number of books . (Some, IMO, are not worthy of print. But a few good poets have got their books out because of Antrim and that's what it's about after all.) 

Finnegan

 

=
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From junction at earthlink.net  Wed Dec 30 01:22:08 2009
From: junction at earthlink.net (Mark Weiss)
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 2009 01:22:08 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Poet Editors
In-Reply-To: <8CC57026246E709-3588-2D143@webmail-d022.sysops.aol.com>
References: <8CC56EBB577FA8C-14E0-38DFC@webmail-d077.sysops.aol.com>
	<8CC57026246E709-3588-2D143@webmail-d022.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <E1NPrx6-0002NA-35@elasmtp-mealy.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

Randolph Healey

At 07:58 PM 12/29/2009, you wrote:
>Another couple of poet-editors...
>
>Gian Lombardo of Quale Press
><http://www.quale.com/>http://www.quale.com/
>He's does a good number of books and has made the prose poem a 
>specialty of the press. I think he teaches at Emerson College; 
>teaches publishing/book design or something like that. That makes 
>think that every MFA graduate should be required to give 3/6 credit 
>hours to literary publishing. It should be part of the core the 
>curriculum and not an option.
>
>Then there's a poet Rene McQuilkin, known locally as the founder the 
>Sunken Garden Reading Series, who started a press a few years ago. 
>His press Antrim House
><http://www.antrimhousebooks.com/>http://www.antrimhousebooks.com/
>has put out a great number of books . (Some, IMO, are not worthy of 
>print. But a few good poets have got their books out because of 
>Antrim and that's what it's about after all.)
>
>Finnegan
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>New-Poetry mailing list
>New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry

Announcing The Whole Island: Six Decades of Cuban Poetry (University 
of California Press).
Forthcoming in November 2009.
http://go.ucpress.edu/WholeIsland





From cervantes.james at gmail.com  Wed Dec 30 08:11:33 2009
From: cervantes.james at gmail.com (James Cervantes)
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 2009 06:11:33 -0700
Subject: [New-Poetry] best...
In-Reply-To: <4b65c2d70912291323t12500729g8f50bdde78631300@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4b65c2d70912291323t12500729g8f50bdde78631300@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <648208b60912300511n73566c66j1f35138cc20e6bb3@mail.gmail.com>

Still working on the best 100 from the 70s.  I don't think there'll be time
to catch up.

- Tortoise

On Tue, Dec 29, 2009 at 2:23 PM, Anny Ballardini
<anny.ballardini at gmail.com>wrote:

> the 100 best books of the decade (Cormac McCarthey!):
>
> http://entertainment.timesonline.co.uk/tol/arts_and_entertainment/books/book_reviews/article6914181.ece
>
>
>
> --
> Anny Ballardini
> http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
> http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
> http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078
> http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html
> I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing
> star!
> Friedrich Nietzsche
>
> ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique
> vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ?
> Giovenale
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
>


-- 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org
http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning
http://www.fieralingue.it/documenti/mr_bondo.pdf
http://www.poetserv.org/jvc/home/index.html
http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamescervantes/
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From anny.ballardini at gmail.com  Thu Dec 31 04:14:00 2009
From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 2009 10:14:00 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] best...
In-Reply-To: <648208b60912300511n73566c66j1f35138cc20e6bb3@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4b65c2d70912291323t12500729g8f50bdde78631300@mail.gmail.com>
	<648208b60912300511n73566c66j1f35138cc20e6bb3@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4b65c2d70912310114u1e79be34t248a2d75d35d3fbd@mail.gmail.com>

Not by the end of this year, it all depends on your priorities, :-)

On Wed, Dec 30, 2009 at 2:11 PM, James Cervantes
<cervantes.james at gmail.com>wrote:

> Still working on the best 100 from the 70s.  I don't think there'll be time
> to catch up.
>
> - Tortoise
>
> On Tue, Dec 29, 2009 at 2:23 PM, Anny Ballardini <
> anny.ballardini at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> the 100 best books of the decade (Cormac McCarthey!):
>>
>> http://entertainment.timesonline.co.uk/tol/arts_and_entertainment/books/book_reviews/article6914181.ece
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Anny Ballardini
>> http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
>> http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
>> http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078
>> http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html
>> I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing
>> star!
>> Friedrich Nietzsche
>>
>> ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique
>> vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ?
>> Giovenale
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> New-Poetry mailing list
>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>>
>>
>
>
> --
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org
> http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning
> http://www.fieralingue.it/documenti/mr_bondo.pdf
> http://www.poetserv.org/jvc/home/index.html
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamescervantes/
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
>


-- 
Anny Ballardini
http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078
http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html
I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing
star!
Friedrich Nietzsche

? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique
vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ?
Giovenale
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From jorgensen_a at yahoo.com  Thu Dec 31 05:37:23 2009
From: jorgensen_a at yahoo.com (Jorgensen, Alexander)
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 2009 02:37:23 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: New-Poetry Digest, Vol 66, Issue 39
In-Reply-To: <200912291902.nBTJ2QYA027468@wiz.cath.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <305785.47046.qm@web50502.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

http://liesisle.com/index.html

A nice journal containing some of my work - both textual and visual. My feeling - and I am nobody - is that there's "good news," as they say, here.

Happy New Year!


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From jforjames at aol.com  Thu Dec 31 10:14:26 2009
From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 2009 10:14:26 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: Donald Revell translations of Rimbaud's "The
	Illuminations"
In-Reply-To: <8CC57BAB76067F5-2F14-1818E@webmail-m018.sysops.aol.com>
References: <8CC57826B16709C-172C-1E0CB@webmail-d002.sysops.aol.com>
	<8CC57BAB76067F5-2F14-1818E@webmail-m018.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <8CC584313589B7F-2554-7C49@webmail-d075.sysops.aol.com>


This didn't go thru yesterday for some reason...

-----Original Message-----
From: jforjames at aol.com
To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
Sent: Wed, Dec 30, 2009 5:58 pm
Subject: Donald Revell translations of Rimbaud's "The Illuminations"




http://www.theweekender.com/books/_lsquo_Illuminating_rsquo__poetry_12-29-2009.html

by Kacy Muir
Weekender Correspondent
A good poem, like a classic book, can continue to move forward even after the decades and centuries pass. If that poem has great persistence and a lasting message, it will echo and reverberate in a modern society.
 
Donald Revell, translator of ?The Illuminations? by French poet Arthur Rimbaud, is one who shows readers the importance of poetry by providing us with a keen insight into the world of Rimbaud.
 
?The Illuminations? was originally published in 1874. In using his own experience and understanding of Rimbaud, Revell, a celebrated poet of our own time (?The Bitter Withy?) also translated ?A Season in Hell,? giving him enough credibility to stand out among past interpreters.



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From jforjames at aol.com  Thu Dec 31 10:26:06 2009
From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 2009 10:26:06 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Joseph Hutchison's Perpetual Bird
Message-ID: <8CC5844B3B0C967-2554-7F15@webmail-d075.sysops.aol.com>


Joseph Hutchinson gives a rundown of some 2009 books (with the best short review possible--a sample poem).
http://perpetualbird.blogspot.com/2009/12/breadcrumbs-personal-anthology-of-2009_28.html

And inside his post is a link to Bob Arnold's longhouse and another selection of books (some poetry, some not; along with a few misc. items to end the year)...
http://longhousepoetryandpublishers.blogspot.com/2009/12/p-l-y-g-r-o-u-n-d-bookstore-is-one-of.html
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From jforjames at aol.com  Thu Dec 31 12:42:20 2009
From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 2009 12:42:20 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: Stevens comic
In-Reply-To: <114954.10182.qm@web83802.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
References: <20db99950912281843g1e09d8b2jdae53fbbf39a1ca8@mail.gmail.com>
	<LYRIS-757762-798228-2009.12.28-23.18.38--JforJames#aol.com@lyris.wesleyan.edu>
	<8CC58483F82AAC7-2554-855F@webmail-d075.sysops.aol.com>
	<114954.10182.qm@web83802.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <8CC5857BCCC0BF8-2554-A0E9@webmail-d075.sysops.aol.com>




A little something that came to the Stevens List. Hope it amuses you as it did me...

http://mphelan.blogspot.com/2009/05/preliminary-minutiae-mini-comic-roughs.html




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From jforjames at aol.com  Thu Dec 31 12:45:36 2009
From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 2009 12:45:36 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] On the Necessity of Bad Reviews
Message-ID: <8CC585831D13581-2554-A19D@webmail-d075.sysops.aol.com>

Date:    Wed, 30 Dec 2009 13:02:58 +0100
From:    Jeffrey Side <argotist at FSMAIL.NET>
Subject: 'On the Necessity of Bad Reviews' by Adam Fieled


'On the Necessity of Bad Reviews' by Adam Fieled: 
http://www.argotistonline.co.uk/Fieled%20essay.htm
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From jschickling at hotmail.com  Thu Dec 31 13:51:43 2009
From: jschickling at hotmail.com (jared schickling)
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 2009 13:51:43 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] RE: New-Poetry Digest, Vol 66, Issue 41
In-Reply-To: <200912311700.nBVH04ZK019436@wiz.cath.vt.edu>
References: <200912311700.nBVH04ZK019436@wiz.cath.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <SNT130-w629CA82FF3B7B5A4DAC641B0780@phx.gbl>


Dear All,

 

Some interesting materials from Adam Fieled have been circulating on various lists lately, on the subject of book reviews -- e.g. his Argotist essay 'On the Necessity of Bad Reviews' -- there has been other recent work on the subject in the past year:

 

A critical forum in response to Kent Johnson's letter to Poetry Magazine arguing for publishing anonymously authored reviews: http://maydaymagazine.com/

 

A follow-up to that forum (in which Johnson's letter is reviewed, among other interesting things, and in the spirit of his own antics), a gathering called "Review Review" for Reconfigurations: reconfigurations.blogspot.com.  

 

Jared Schickling 

 

 

 
> Date: Thu, 31 Dec 2009 12:00:07 -0500
> From: new-poetry-request at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> Subject: New-Poetry Digest, Vol 66, Issue 41
> To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> 
> Send New-Poetry mailing list submissions to
> new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> 
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> new-poetry-request at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> 
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> new-poetry-owner at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> 
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of New-Poetry digest..."
> 
> 
> Today's Topics:
> 
> 1. Thanks to Crag Hill (Anny Ballardini)
> 2. trois evenements (Alexander Dickow)
> 3. He could find the melody in anything (Peter)
> 4. Fascinating video of "A Book About Death" (Peter)
> 5. Re: best... (James Cervantes)
> 6. Re: best... (Anny Ballardini)
> 7. Re: New-Poetry Digest, Vol 66, Issue 39 (Jorgensen, Alexander)
> 8. Fwd: Donald Revell translations of Rimbaud's "The
> Illuminations" (jforjames at aol.com)
> 9. Joseph Hutchison's Perpetual Bird (jforjames at aol.com)
> 10. Fwd: Stevens comic (jforjames at aol.com)
> 11. On the Necessity of Bad Reviews (jforjames at aol.com)
> 
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Message: 1
> Date: Sat, 16 May 2009 15:43:45 +0200
> From: Anny Ballardini <anny.ballardini at gmail.com>
> Subject: [New-Poetry] Thanks to Crag Hill
> To: Anny Ballardini <anny.ballardini at gmail.com>
> Message-ID:
> <4b65c2d70905160643o18f9be07x2bcf86b30aca60b0 at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
> 
> my *Ghost Dance in 33 Movements* is reviewed by Crag Hill on Jacket Magazine
> 37:
> http://jacketmagazine.com/37/r-ballardini-rb-hill.shtml
> 
> Crag Hill's creative and critical works in progress can be found at
> http://scorecard.typepad.com
> 
> -- 
> Anny Ballardini
> http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
> http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
> http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078
> http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html
> I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing
> star!
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> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 2
> Date: Wed, 20 May 2009 09:05:39 -0700 (PDT)
> From: Alexander Dickow <alexdickow9 at yahoo.com>
> Subject: [New-Poetry] trois evenements
> To: alexdickow9 at yahoo.com
> Message-ID: <895760.473.qm at web35506.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> 
> Chers amis, chers coll?gues,
> Je vous signale deux ?v?nements po?tiques, une lecture-rencontre avec Tristan Hord? et un entretien radiophonique, qui auront lieu ? Nantes, le jeudi 28 mai.
> J'ajoute des pr?cisions concernant ma participation au colloque "Les R?seaux europ?ens des revues litt?raires (1909-1939) ? Angers, du 2 au 4 juin. Selon le pr?programme, ma communication, "Sign? Fant?mas: D?guisement du discours dans quelques revues d'avant-garde," aura lieu ? 17h, le mercredi 3 juin.
> Merci de votre attention, et de transmettre ces informations ? ceux qu'elles sont susceptibles d'int?resser.
> Amiti?s,
> Alexander Dickow
>  
> Le lire critique :
> Tristan Hord? & Alexander Dickow
> Carte blanche ? un lecteur-critique pour une conversation avec un auteur
> Jeudi 28 mai
> Tristan Hord?
> Il est l?un des r?dacteurs du Petit Robert, du GrandRobert de la langue fran?aise, du Dictionnaire historique de la langue fran?aise, dirig?s par Alain Rey. Il est ?galement auteur (ou co-auteur) de plusieurs autres dictionnaires (le Dictionnaire des pr?noms chez Larousse etc.), de m?me qu?il a sign? quelques livres d?entretiens, Jude St?fan (Argol), et dirig? des Cahiers, Beaut? seconde (Cahier Jean-Paul Michel, ?d. Joseph K), Cahier Jude St?fan (Le Temps qu?il fait)... Grand lecteur de po?sie contemporaine et critique litt?raire, il signe dans de nombreuses revues, la ?Nouvelle Revue
> Fran?aise?, ?Europe? et dans la revue internet ?Poezibao?, ? laquelle il contribue tr?s activement. C?est d?ailleurs sur ?Po?zibao? qu?il donne un bel article sur le livre d?Alexander Dickow.
> 
> Alexander Dickow
> N? aux ?tats-Unis en 1979, Alexander Dickow vient en France poursuivre ses ?tudes suite ? la Ma?trise en litt?rature fran?aise obtenue ? Portland. Il obtient un DEA de Lettres Modernes ? l?Universit? de Nantes, et consacre aujourd?hui une th?se ? la po?sie fran?aise du XXe si?cle. C?est dans une maison d??dition fran?aise, Argol, qu?il publie son premier livre de po?mes,
> Caramboles. En anglais et en fran?ais, sans ?tre bilingues, les po?mes, en juxtapolin?aires, plut?t, ils se bousculent avec maladresse, mais pr?cision, comme si le po?te se jouait en lutin, ou en fou du roi (plein de sagesse langagi?re) : le po?te ?volue dans l?entre-deuxlangues avec intention possible d?abolir les fronti?res, de r?concilier deux langues qui souvent s?affrontent, en d?montrant le ludique dans chacune d?elle. Et pour ce que les fronti?res linguistiques sont poreuses. Malicieusement le po?te va d?une langue ? l?autre ;
> 
> ?redevenus babioles, les mots caracolent, carambolent, et
> de leurs t?lescopages naissent des crumbles de fariboles
> qui constituent de baroques coqs-?-l??ne?
> 
> (Fabrice Thumerel in ?Libr-critique?)
> 
>  
> ? LA RADIO?
> 
> ? Les Draps dans les Mots ?
> Une discussion radiophonique avec les auteurs invit?s aux lectures, depuis l?intimit? d?une chambre de l?h?tel Pommeraye, sur Alernantes FM (98.1 Nantes / 91 Saint-Nazaire). ?mission anim?e par Michel Sourget, Laurent Mareschal et G?raldine Lamant, en direct de 17h10 ? 18h00.
> 
> Jeudi 23 avril :Jean-Claude Schneider
> Jeudi 28 mai : Alexander Dickow
> Jeudi 11 juin : Val?rie Rouzeau
>  
> ***
>  Colloque international/universit? d??t? de la SFLGC
>  
> Les r?seaux europ?ens des revues litt?raires (1909-1939)
>  
> Organis? par Anne-Rachel Hermetet (Universit? d?Angers, CERIEC) et Nathalie Prince (Universit? du Maine, 3LAM)
>  
> Universit? d?Angers, Maison des Sciences humaines, 2-4 juin 2009
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> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 3
> Date: Sun, 14 Jun 2009 21:25:42 -0400
> From: Peter <ciccariello at gmail.com>
> Subject: [New-Poetry] He could find the melody in anything
> Message-ID:
> <8f3fdbad0906141825j549351fbn5f29828f5af8a1e at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
> 
> *He could find the melody in anything*
> 
> http://ciccariello.viewbook.com/melody
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Peter Ciccariello
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> http://invisiblenotes.blogspot.com/
> http://uncommonvision.blogspot.com/
> http://poemsfromprovidence.blogspot.com/
> http://uncommon-vision.blogspot.com/
> You can find my art and writing updates on Twitter
> https://twitter.com/ciccariello
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> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 4
> Date: Sun, 15 Nov 2009 15:18:10 -0500
> From: Peter <ciccariello at gmail.com>
> Subject: [New-Poetry] Fascinating video of "A Book About Death"
> Message-ID:
> <8f3fdbad0911151218r23bc0813rdb86b3abcecad2c0 at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
> 
> Amazing film/slide show by Brazilian artist, Angela Ferrara, for "A Book
> About Death" Conceived by Matthew Rose.
> http://abookaboutdeath.blogspot.com/
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- Peter Ciccariello
> http://invisiblenotes.blogspot.com/
> http://uncommonvision.blogspot.com/
> http://poemsfromprovidence.blogspot.com/
> http://uncommon-vision.blogspot.com/
> You can find my art and writing updates on Twitter
> https://twitter.com/ciccariello
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> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 5
> Date: Wed, 30 Dec 2009 06:11:33 -0700
> From: James Cervantes <cervantes.james at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] best...
> To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &amp, Views"
> <new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
> Message-ID:
> <648208b60912300511n73566c66j1f35138cc20e6bb3 at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
> 
> Still working on the best 100 from the 70s. I don't think there'll be time
> to catch up.
> 
> - Tortoise
> 
> On Tue, Dec 29, 2009 at 2:23 PM, Anny Ballardini
> <anny.ballardini at gmail.com>wrote:
> 
> > the 100 best books of the decade (Cormac McCarthey!):
> >
> > http://entertainment.timesonline.co.uk/tol/arts_and_entertainment/books/book_reviews/article6914181.ece
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Anny Ballardini
> > http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
> > http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
> > http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078
> > http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html
> > I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing
> > star!
> > Friedrich Nietzsche
> >
> > ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique
> > vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ?
> > Giovenale
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > New-Poetry mailing list
> > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
> >
> >
> 
> 
> -- 
> 
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org
> http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning
> http://www.fieralingue.it/documenti/mr_bondo.pdf
> http://www.poetserv.org/jvc/home/index.html
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamescervantes/
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> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 6
> Date: Thu, 31 Dec 2009 10:14:00 +0100
> From: Anny Ballardini <anny.ballardini at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] best...
> To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &amp, Views"
> <new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
> Message-ID:
> <4b65c2d70912310114u1e79be34t248a2d75d35d3fbd at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
> 
> Not by the end of this year, it all depends on your priorities, :-)
> 
> On Wed, Dec 30, 2009 at 2:11 PM, James Cervantes
> <cervantes.james at gmail.com>wrote:
> 
> > Still working on the best 100 from the 70s. I don't think there'll be time
> > to catch up.
> >
> > - Tortoise
> >
> > On Tue, Dec 29, 2009 at 2:23 PM, Anny Ballardini <
> > anny.ballardini at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> the 100 best books of the decade (Cormac McCarthey!):
> >>
> >> http://entertainment.timesonline.co.uk/tol/arts_and_entertainment/books/book_reviews/article6914181.ece
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Anny Ballardini
> >> http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
> >> http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
> >> http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078
> >> http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html
> >> I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing
> >> star!
> >> Friedrich Nietzsche
> >>
> >> ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique
> >> vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ?
> >> Giovenale
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> New-Poetry mailing list
> >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> > --
> >
> > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> > Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org
> > http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning
> > http://www.fieralingue.it/documenti/mr_bondo.pdf
> > http://www.poetserv.org/jvc/home/index.html
> > http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamescervantes/
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > New-Poetry mailing list
> > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
> >
> >
> 
> 
> -- 
> Anny Ballardini
> http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
> http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
> http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078
> http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html
> I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing
> star!
> Friedrich Nietzsche
> 
> ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique
> vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ?
> Giovenale
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> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 7
> Date: Thu, 31 Dec 2009 02:37:23 -0800 (PST)
> From: "Jorgensen, Alexander" <jorgensen_a at yahoo.com>
> Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: New-Poetry Digest, Vol 66, Issue 39
> To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> Message-ID: <305785.47046.qm at web50502.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> 
> http://liesisle.com/index.html
> 
> A nice journal containing some of my work - both textual and visual. My feeling - and I am nobody - is that there's "good news," as they say, here.
> 
> Happy New Year!
> 
> 
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> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 8
> Date: Thu, 31 Dec 2009 10:14:26 -0500
> From: jforjames at aol.com
> Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: Donald Revell translations of Rimbaud's
> "The Illuminations"
> To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> Message-ID: <8CC584313589B7F-2554-7C49 at webmail-d075.sysops.aol.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> 
> 
> This didn't go thru yesterday for some reason...
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: jforjames at aol.com
> To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> Sent: Wed, Dec 30, 2009 5:58 pm
> Subject: Donald Revell translations of Rimbaud's "The Illuminations"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.theweekender.com/books/_lsquo_Illuminating_rsquo__poetry_12-29-2009.html
> 
> by Kacy Muir
> Weekender Correspondent
> A good poem, like a classic book, can continue to move forward even after the decades and centuries pass. If that poem has great persistence and a lasting message, it will echo and reverberate in a modern society.
> 
> Donald Revell, translator of ?The Illuminations? by French poet Arthur Rimbaud, is one who shows readers the importance of poetry by providing us with a keen insight into the world of Rimbaud.
> 
> ?The Illuminations? was originally published in 1874. In using his own experience and understanding of Rimbaud, Revell, a celebrated poet of our own time (?The Bitter Withy?) also translated ?A Season in Hell,? giving him enough credibility to stand out among past interpreters.
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 9
> Date: Thu, 31 Dec 2009 10:26:06 -0500
> From: jforjames at aol.com
> Subject: [New-Poetry] Joseph Hutchison's Perpetual Bird
> To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> Message-ID: <8CC5844B3B0C967-2554-7F15 at webmail-d075.sysops.aol.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> 
> 
> Joseph Hutchinson gives a rundown of some 2009 books (with the best short review possible--a sample poem).
> http://perpetualbird.blogspot.com/2009/12/breadcrumbs-personal-anthology-of-2009_28.html
> 
> And inside his post is a link to Bob Arnold's longhouse and another selection of books (some poetry, some not; along with a few misc. items to end the year)...
> http://longhousepoetryandpublishers.blogspot.com/2009/12/p-l-y-g-r-o-u-n-d-bookstore-is-one-of.html
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> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 10
> Date: Thu, 31 Dec 2009 12:42:20 -0500
> From: jforjames at aol.com
> Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: Stevens comic
> To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> Message-ID: <8CC5857BCCC0BF8-2554-A0E9 at webmail-d075.sysops.aol.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A little something that came to the Stevens List. Hope it amuses you as it did me...
> 
> http://mphelan.blogspot.com/2009/05/preliminary-minutiae-mini-comic-roughs.html
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 11
> Date: Thu, 31 Dec 2009 12:45:36 -0500
> From: jforjames at aol.com
> Subject: [New-Poetry] On the Necessity of Bad Reviews
> To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> Message-ID: <8CC585831D13581-2554-A19D at webmail-d075.sysops.aol.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> 
> Date: Wed, 30 Dec 2009 13:02:58 +0100
> From: Jeffrey Side <argotist at FSMAIL.NET>
> Subject: 'On the Necessity of Bad Reviews' by Adam Fieled
> 
> 
> 'On the Necessity of Bad Reviews' by Adam Fieled: 
> http://www.argotistonline.co.uk/Fieled%20essay.htm
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> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
> 
> 
> End of New-Poetry Digest, Vol 66, Issue 41
> ******************************************
 		 	   		  
_________________________________________________________________
Hotmail: Trusted email with powerful SPAM protection.
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From jschickling at hotmail.com  Thu Dec 31 13:54:06 2009
From: jschickling at hotmail.com (jared schickling)
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 2009 13:54:06 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Fieled's "On the Necessity of Bad Reviews,
 " Johnson's Mayday letter, and Reconfigurations
In-Reply-To: <200912311700.nBVH04ZK019436@wiz.cath.vt.edu>
References: <200912311700.nBVH04ZK019436@wiz.cath.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <SNT130-w97024E609A779FCB6BC95B0780@phx.gbl>





Dear All,
 
Some interesting materials from Adam Fieled have been circulating on various lists lately, on the subject of book reviews -- e.g. his Argotist essay 'On the Necessity of Bad Reviews' -- there has been other recent work on the subject in the past year:
 
A critical forum in response to Kent Johnson's letter to Poetry Magazine arguing for publishing anonymously authored reviews: http://maydaymagazine.com/
 
A follow-up to that forum (in which Johnson's letter is reviewed, among other interesting things, and in the spirit of his own antics), a gathering called "Review Review" for Reconfigurations: 

 

reconfigurations.blogspot.com.  
 
Jared Schickling 
 
 
 		 	   		  
_________________________________________________________________
Hotmail: Free, trusted and rich email service.
http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/171222984/direct/01/
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From anny.ballardini at gmail.com  Thu Dec 31 14:07:47 2009
From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 2009 20:07:47 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: Stevens comic
In-Reply-To: <8CC5857BCCC0BF8-2554-A0E9@webmail-d075.sysops.aol.com>
References: <20db99950912281843g1e09d8b2jdae53fbbf39a1ca8@mail.gmail.com>
	<LYRIS-757762-798228-2009.12.28-23.18.38--JforJames#aol.com@lyris.wesleyan.edu>
	<8CC58483F82AAC7-2554-855F@webmail-d075.sysops.aol.com>
	<114954.10182.qm@web83802.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
	<8CC5857BCCC0BF8-2554-A0E9@webmail-d075.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <4b65c2d70912311107w3537dd9cta718b552ba73c5a2@mail.gmail.com>

:-)

On Thu, Dec 31, 2009 at 6:42 PM, <jforjames at aol.com> wrote:

>    A little something that came to the Stevens List. Hope it amuses you as
> it did me...
>
>
> http://mphelan.blogspot.com/2009/05/preliminary-minutiae-mini-comic-roughs.html
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
>


-- 
Anny Ballardini
http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078
http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html
I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing
star!
Friedrich Nietzsche

? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique
vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ?
Giovenale
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From halvard at gmail.com  Thu Dec 31 19:09:17 2009
From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson)
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 2009 18:09:17 -0600
Subject: [New-Poetry] Happy New Year, friends and neighbors!
Message-ID: <f160a1210912311609k6f63d026ib153d3f4d5bbc493@mail.gmail.com>

This as Including That

This rock and the dry birds
Fluttering in blue leaves,

This rock and the priest,
The priest of nothingness who intones--

It is true that you live on this rock
And in it. It is wholly you.

It is true that there are thoughts
That move in the air as large as air,

That are almost not our own, but thoughts
To which we are related,

In an association like yours
With the rock and mine with you.

The iron settee is cold.
A fly crawls on the balustrades.

--Wallace Stevens



Hal

Halvard Johnson
================
halvard at gmail.com
http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home
http://entropyandme.blogspot.com
http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com
http://www.hamiltonstone.org
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