From JforJames Mon Sep 1 15:57:12 2008 From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2008 15:57:12 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: ANNOUNCING A NEW RELEASE FROM WAVE BOOKS: State of the Union: 50 Politica... Message-ID: In a message dated 9/1/2008 3:41:37 PM Eastern Daylight Time, info at wavepoetry.com writes: Dear Friends and Supporters of Wave Books, We are pleased to introduce to you a timely and significant volume of poetry from Wave Books: State of the Union: 50 Political Poems, an anthology co-edited by Joshua Beckman and Matthew Zapruder, featuring the work of a dynamic gathering of fifty contemporary American poets. AVAILABLE NOW: STATE OF THE UNION: 50 POLITICAL POEMS As we traverse this time of heightened social and political engagement, State of the Union offers a spectrum of poems that enact and catalyze the critical and imaginative thinking necessary in responding to the complexity of the time. The anthology features work by John Ashbery, James Tate, Fanny Howe, Anselm Berrigan, Eileen Myles, Terrance Hayes, Albert Goldbarth, Catherine Wagner, Tao Lin, Michael Palmer, Lucille Clifton, Joe Wenderoth, John Yau, Richard Siken, CAConrad, Rebecca Wolff, Peter Gizzi, Juliana Spahr, Wang Ping among many others. As we continue to be arrested by William Carlos Williams's utterly timeless forewarning---that "It is difficult / to get the news from poems / yet men die miserably every day / for lack / of what is found there"---we turn, ritually and reflexively, to poems. Visit State of the Union here: http://www.wavepoetry.com/catalog/66 In September and October, Wave Books is co-sponsoring and organizing a series of readings nationwide in conjunction with, and in the spirit of, State of the Union, with readings in Berkeley, Chicago, New York City, Philadelphia and Washington D.C. For information and updates on these readings, as well as related events and ephemera, please visit the Wave Books Calendar here: http://www.wavepoetry.com/calendar Or State of the Union's Facebook page here: http://www.facebook.com/pages/State-of-the-Union-50-Political-Poems/3572170142 0?ref=ts Stay tuned to the Wave Books website for information about a forthcoming blog of political and poetic discourse, PoetryPolitic: A Blog in 50 Days, which will run from September 15th through November 4th. ALSO AVAILABLE: JOHN GODFREY'S CITY OF CORNERS "While others are busy catching their own reflection in the storefront of poetry, Godfrey goes to work on the damage and squalor of the overlooked. His genius rings true." (Peter Gizzi). Visit City of Corners here: http://www.wavepoetry.com/catalog/65 FORTHCOMING TITLES Stay tuned for announcements on the softcover release of James Tate's Dreams of a Robot Dancing Bee and Charles Borkhuis's translation of Franck Andre Jamme's New Exercises. SUBSCRIPTION INFORMATION There is still time to get all of our 2008 titles in one fell swoop! Please read the following for complete information: SOFTCOVER SUBSCRIPTION: SIX BOOKS FOR $50 http://www.wavepoetry.com/catalog/64 HARDCOVER SUBSCRIPTION: LIMITED EDITIONS FOR $295 http://www.wavepoetry.com/catalog/63 Thank you all for your continued support, and happy September to you. Brandon Shimoda Director of Marketing, Wave Books 1938 Fairview Avenue East, Suite 201 Seattle, Washington 98102 (206) 676-5337 -- If you do not want to receive any more Wave Books announcements for this list, please email info at wavepoetry.com with 'unsubscribe' in the subject line. **************It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel deal here. (http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cstroffo Mon Sep 1 16:58:35 2008 From: cstroffo (Chris Stroffolino) Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2008 13:58:35 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: ANNOUNCING A NEW RELEASE FROM WAVE BOOKS: State of the Union: 50 Politica... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <31499943-5324-4014-B0BC-E2CEDE757FD8@earthlink.net> Ah, "Political Poetry" I remember the poem I wrote not long after 9/11 and put it out on this list, and so many people thought I was being so insensitive. It's sad that 4 or 5 and 6 years later, people finally agree with much of what I said in that poem. And now here's this anthology, just in time for the new election.... C On Sep 1, 2008, at 12:57 PM, JforJames at aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 9/1/2008 3:41:37 PM Eastern Daylight Time, > info at wavepoetry.com writes: > Dear Friends and Supporters of Wave Books, > > We are pleased to introduce to you a timely and significant volume of > poetry from Wave Books: State of the Union: 50 Political Poems, an > anthology co-edited by Joshua Beckman and Matthew Zapruder, featuring > the work of a dynamic gathering of fifty contemporary American poets. > > AVAILABLE NOW: > STATE OF THE UNION: 50 POLITICAL POEMS > > As we traverse this time of heightened social and political > engagement, State of the Union offers a spectrum of poems that enact > and catalyze the critical and imaginative thinking necessary in > responding to the complexity of the time. > > The anthology features work by John Ashbery, James Tate, Fanny Howe, > Anselm Berrigan, Eileen Myles, Terrance Hayes, Albert Goldbarth, > Catherine Wagner, Tao Lin, Michael Palmer, Lucille Clifton, Joe > Wenderoth, John Yau, Richard Siken, CAConrad, Rebecca Wolff, Peter > Gizzi, Juliana Spahr, Wang Ping among many others. > > As we continue to be arrested by William Carlos Williams's utterly > timeless forewarning---that "It is difficult / to get the news from > poems / yet men die miserably every day / for lack / of what is found > there"---we turn, ritually and reflexively, to poems. > > Visit State of the Union here: http://www.wavepoetry.com/catalog/66 > > In September and October, Wave Books is co-sponsoring and organizing > a series of readings nationwide in conjunction with, and in the > spirit of, State of the Union, with readings in Berkeley, Chicago, > New York City, Philadelphia and Washington D.C. For information and > updates on these readings, as well as related events and ephemera, > please visit the Wave Books Calendar here: > > http://www.wavepoetry.com/calendar > > Or State of the Union's Facebook page here: > http://www.facebook.com/pages/State-of-the-Union-50-Political-Poems/ > 35721701420?ref=ts > > > Stay tuned to the Wave Books website for information about a > forthcoming blog of political and poetic discourse, PoetryPolitic: A > Blog in 50 Days, which will run from September 15th through November > 4th. > > ALSO AVAILABLE: > JOHN GODFREY'S CITY OF CORNERS > > "While others are busy catching their own reflection in the > storefront of poetry, Godfrey goes to work on the damage and squalor > of the overlooked. His genius rings true." (Peter Gizzi). > > Visit City of Corners here: http://www.wavepoetry.com/catalog/65 > > FORTHCOMING TITLES > > Stay tuned for announcements on the softcover release of James Tate's > Dreams of a Robot Dancing Bee and Charles Borkhuis's translation of > Franck Andre Jamme's New Exercises. > > SUBSCRIPTION INFORMATION > > There is still time to get all of our 2008 titles in one fell swoop! > Please read the following for complete information: > > SOFTCOVER SUBSCRIPTION: SIX BOOKS FOR $50 > http://www.wavepoetry.com/catalog/64 > > HARDCOVER SUBSCRIPTION: LIMITED EDITIONS FOR $295 > http://www.wavepoetry.com/catalog/63 > > Thank you all for your continued support, and happy September to you. > > > Brandon Shimoda > Director of Marketing, Wave Books > 1938 Fairview Avenue East, Suite 201 > Seattle, Washington 98102 > (206) 676-5337 > > -- > If you do not want to receive any more Wave Books announcements for > this > list, please email info at wavepoetry.com with 'unsubscribe' in the > subject > line. > > > > > > > > It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel > deal here. > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames Mon Sep 1 19:58:31 2008 From: jforjames (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Mon, 01 Sep 2008 19:58:31 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Women Poets On Mentorship Message-ID: <8CADAA5C580D712-199C-14CA@FWM-M07.sysops.aol.com> http://dianelockward.blogspot.com/2008/08/women-poets-on-mentorship.html Women Poets On Mentorship -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames Mon Sep 1 20:04:07 2008 From: jforjames (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Mon, 01 Sep 2008 20:04:07 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] WorldPo: Chauly, Malaysia Message-ID: <8CADAA68D91976C-199C-1500@FWM-M07.sysops.aol.com> http://thestar.com.my/lifestyle/story.asp?file=/2008/8/31/lifebookshelf/1893386&sec=lifebookshelf Sunday August 31, 2008 Poetic licence By DAPHNE LEE SOME of her poems make me feel uncomfortable,? said a friend of mine to whom I?d given Bernice Chauly?s poetry collection, The Book of Sins. She said that they revealed things about herself ? secret, painful things that she never thought any one else would understand. Chauly?s poems are deeply personal. They may or may not be autobiographical in detail, but the stories they tell feel like they were shaped by real emotions and memories. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames Mon Sep 1 20:34:39 2008 From: jforjames (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Mon, 01 Sep 2008 20:34:39 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Wallace Stevens Birthday Bash, Oct 4, Hartford Public Library In-Reply-To: <8CADAAA77A3F498-988-142F@FWM-D12.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CADAAA77A3F498-988-142F@FWM-D12.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <8CADAAAD1C8EECB-988-1447@FWM-D12.sysops.aol.com> 13th Annual ?Wallace Stevens Birthday Bash? Saturday October 4, 2008, 6:30 P.M. Hartford Public Library, 500 Main Street Reception begins at 6:30 P.M. Featured Speaker? ?JOHN N. SERIO ??? ?Poetry Is Feeling, Then, and Sound ???? ?An abstraction blooded, as a man by thought." ????? ??Wallace Stevens Serio will address a neglected aspect in Wallace Stevens? work??the personal? or ?the emotional? in his poetry. Most readers focus on Stevens? complex philosophical ideas and find his poetry abstract, cold, and impersonal. His talk will concentrate on the feeling embedded in Stevens? poetry. John N. Serio is a Professor of Humanities at Clarkson University, where he has taught since 1974. A specialist in modern American poetry and Wallace Stevens in particular, he has edited The Wallace Stevens Journal for over twenty-five years. Among his publications are Wallace Stevens: An Annotated Secondary Bibliography; Teaching Wallace Stevens: Practical Essays; The Cambridge Companion to Wallace Stevens.. He has edited two collections of Poetry for Young People, Wallace Stevens and The Seasons. Serio created a searchable CD of the first twenty-five years of The Wallace Stevens Journal, including the rarely seen Wallace Stevens Newsletter. With G reg Foster, he created a free Online Concordance to Wallace Stevens poetry at www.wallacestevens.com. He has been the recipient of sev eral NEH grants as well as two Fulbright awards, one to Greece and one to Belgium. He has received recognition for his scholarly articles and his journal editing. In Spring 2005, he taught in the ?Semester at Sea? program, a university on a ship that circumnavigates the globe, and will do so again in Spring 2009. -- After Program: serving Birthday Cake and Champagne! Ticket: $40 per person; send check payable to:? Hartford Public Library, 500 Main Street, Hartford CT 06103. Or call to reserve your tickets at the door: 860-695-6360. Sponsored by Connecticut Center for the Book at the Hartford Public Library with help from The Friends & Enemies of Wallace Stevens. For more information, contact James Finnegan, 860-508-2810? jforjames at aol.com???? Get the MapQuest Toolbar. Directions, Traffic, Gas Prices & More! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames Mon Sep 1 21:53:48 2008 From: jforjames (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Mon, 01 Sep 2008 21:53:48 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] past West Chester recodings here Message-ID: <8CADAB5E042490D-988-1800@FWM-D12.sysops.aol.com> http://www.wcupa.edu/_ACADEMICS/SCH_CAS/POETRY/poetry_conference_audio.asp Past West Chester recodings here, including RS Gwynn and the new US Laurate Kay Ryan. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames Mon Sep 1 21:57:41 2008 From: jforjames (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Mon, 01 Sep 2008 21:57:41 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Kirsch hammered in NY Times Book Review Message-ID: <8CADAB66AF44309-988-1821@FWM-D12.sysops.aol.com> http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/31/books/review/Hammer-t.html Theory and Practice By LANGDON HAMMER Published: August 29, 2008 in ?The Modern Element,? his new book on contemporary poetry, first appeared as book reviews in The New Republic. Kirsch writes with admirable clarity for a general reader not automatically familiar with the poets he discusses. But when he is done with his poets, the general reader does not have much reason to read them. Like the poet-critics he admires, Kirsch mounts a defense of poetry at the expense of poetry he disapproves of. His taste tends to be narrow and formulaic; and the results show not only in ?The Modern Element,? but in ?Invasions,? his new volume of poetry. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chan_jt Tue Sep 2 00:43:30 2008 From: chan_jt (JT Chan) Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2008 04:43:30 +0000 Subject: [New-Poetry] Call for submissions Message-ID: Poetry Sz: demystifying mental illness is calling for submissions to its 27th issue. We are calling for original, previously unpublished poetry written by people who have experienced mental illness. Poems of all topics and styles are welcome. http://poetrysz.blogspot.com Send 4-6 poems and a short bio in the body of your email to poetrysz at yahoo.com Thank you. regards J Chan editor _________________________________________________________________ SEEK New Zealand's #1 jobsite http://a.ninemsn.com.au/b.aspx?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fmsn%2Eseek%2Eco%2Enz%2FID%5FSEEKNZMAIN%5FUSR%2FPages%2Falliance%5Fhomepage%2Eascx%3FComeFrom%3Dmsnnz%26tracking%3Dsk%3Asptlmini%3Ask%3Amsnnz%3A0%3Awindowslive%3A%231&_t=757263783&_r=Seek_NZ_tagline_no1&_m=EXT From bobgrumman Tue Sep 2 09:10:30 2008 From: bobgrumman (Bob Grumman) Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2008 08:10:30 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Kirsch hammered in NY Times Book Review In-Reply-To: <8CADAB66AF44309-988-1821@FWM-D12.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CADAB66AF44309-988-1821@FWM-D12.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <48BD3B46.6030909@nut-n-but.net> Another absolutely standard review of tenth-rate poetry criticism (because ignoring just about all the interesting poetry of our time) by a reviewer every bit as tenth-rate as the critic he's reviewing (whom he scolds not for ignoring just about all the interesting poetry of our time, but for failing to appreciate Ginsberg and O'Hara). Someday, though, the NY Times may surprise us and get less than fifty years behind the times in its coverage of the arts. --Bob G. From JforJames Tue Sep 2 08:34:26 2008 From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2008 08:34:26 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Kirsch hammered in NY Times Book Review Message-ID: In a message dated 9/2/2008 8:07:31 AM Eastern Daylight Time, bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net writes: Another absolutely standard review of tenth-rate poetry criticism (because ignoring just about all the interesting poetry of our time) by a reviewer every bit as tenth-rate as the critic he's reviewing (whom he scolds not for ignoring just about all the interesting poetry of our time, but for failing to appreciate Ginsberg and O'Hara). Someday, though, the NY Times may surprise us and get less than fifty years behind the times in its coverage of the arts. --Bob G. Gertrude Stein famously called Ezra Pound 'the village explainer'...Bob, I think you've earned the moniker: 'the village complainer'. Finnegan **************It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel deal here. (http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames Tue Sep 2 11:23:46 2008 From: jforjames (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2008 11:23:46 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] put on hold: poetry Message-ID: <8CADB270700D677-C0-2C2@MBLK-M17.sysops.aol.com> http://blogs.guardian.co.uk/books/2008/09/why_i_never_want_to_hear_roger.html Why I never want to hear Roger McGough Talk Talk again It's bad enough being put on hold while waiting to speak to a customer service rep, but it is even worse when you're forced to listen to recorded poetry loops September 2, 2008 12:00 PM -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard Tue Sep 2 12:30:48 2008 From: halvard (Halvard Johnson) Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2008 11:30:48 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] When poems leave you speechless Message-ID: don't just sit there, read Bob Grumman or check out this, from Charles Bernstein. (If this page doesn't transmit well, click on the Poem Profiler link at the top, or go to http://epc.buffalo.edu/authors/bernstein/ blog/ and scroll down a bit.) Poem Profiler Poem Profiler: Check Levels This is a list of rhetorical and other features of individual poems that I have used for many years in teaching and which I discuss in several essays on poetry and pedagogy. PEPC library link to the Poem Profiler (and also to an "EZ" version format). Pick one poem and rate it for each of these characteristics. Rate the levels of these features on a one to ten scale with one the lowest level and ten the highest level. Be specific: give examples to support assessment. Compare two poems based on these features. Also: compare any group of poems based on their likeness/difference from one another. (NOTE: please provide additional parameters for the Profiler, which is in development.) For definitions of many key poetics terms, go to http://web.cn.edu/kwheeler/lit_terms.html . and http://rhetoric.byu.edu/ Or use the EZ to fill-out version of the form Stylistic Textures and Poetic Diction Coefficient of weirdness (wackiness quotient) Ambiguity Ambivolence Irreverence Sobriety Humor Eloquence Plainness Sincerity Smoothness (vs roughness, bumpiness, striation) Neat (vs messy) Pretentiousness Subtlety (vs bluntness) Indirect (vs straightforward) Intelligence Visual imagery Dreaminess Particularity (vs generality) of details Stylistic consistency Innovation Originality Ornamental/decorative Relevance Tastefulness Speech-like Dialect Sampling (use of found or quoted material) Comprehensibility Coherence Spontaneity Exploratory Density Predictability Abstractness Sensuousness Wearyness Timidity Bravado Courage Unusual vocabulary Complexity Repetitiveness Self-consciousness Artifice (vs ?natural?) Difficulty Modern/contemporary (vs old fashioned) Referential Opacity / Transparency Ratio (outward/inward pointing) Point of View Direct POV of author as speaker (monologic / lyric) Persona Narrator (epic) Multiple POVs (dialogic or polyvocal) Textual Subjectivity n/a Content Political Liberal/conservative/radical Urban Pastoral Moral Sexual Religious Spiritual Mystical Philosophical Love Family Ethnic/racial Nationalistic/patriotic Gender Mortality (death) Illness Conflict (war) Discontent Developmental / Temporal / Compositional Structures (What holds the poem together?) Fragmentary / disjunctive / nonlinear / discontinuity [parataxis] Logical/expository continuity (linear 1/ hypotaxis) Narrative continuity (beginning, middle, and end) (linear 2 / hypotaxis) Journey Journal/diary Stream of consciousness/thought process Dream-like/surreal Closure Symmetrical Fast paced Jerky Kinetic (moves from one thing to another) vs. static (continuous present) Programmatic or procedural Received form (sonnet, ballad, etc.) Devices Irony Paradox Exaggeration Understatement Simile Metaphor Personification Symbolism Allegory Enjambment Metonymy Literary or historical allusion Persona Programmatic or procedural structure Mood/Tone [rate the first term only] Scary/reassuring Dark/light Impersonal/emotional Engaged /disaffected (alienated) Affirmative/skeptical/ hostile Elegiac (mournful) / celebratory (panegyric) Hot/cold Angry/friendly Cool/uncool Turbulent/calm Disturbed/content Reckless/cautious Happy/sad Depressed/elated Bright/dull Meditative/unreflective Bubbly/sober Elusive/explicit Erotic/dispassionate Mysterious/apparent Counting: Syllables per line Lines per stanza or for poem Stanzas Words per line Visual Shape/Form: Flush left, justified/ragged prose, overall ?field? design, etc. Sound Dissonance/cacophony (noisy, harsh) Melodious/harmonious/ mellifluous (?pleasing?) Assonance Alliteration Rhyme Off-rhyme Metrical patterns Obtrusive (vs not noticeable) for performances: accent tempo voice timbre tone intonation rhythm amplitude/dynamic range Contexts Author?s date of birth/death Date of poem?s composition Place of composition Relevant socio-historical facts Relevant biographical facts Relevant ethnic, gender, national, sexual orientation Place/context of original publication and significant subsequent publication Variant versions, including performances Title: yes/no; if yes: use/connection to poem Obama / Biden '08 Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at earthlink.net halvard at gmail.com http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames Tue Sep 2 17:04:35 2008 From: jforjames (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2008 17:04:35 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Graves trove at UB, Oxford conference Message-ID: <8CADB56A3A99A10-13AC-25F3@webmail-me01.sysops.aol.com> http://www.buffalo.edu/news/9601 UB Poetry Collection Will Help Illuminate International Literary Conference Goal is to help reestablish central role played by Robert Graves in 20th-century literature ? Michael Basinski, curator of the Poetry Collection, will discuss UB's holdings of the works of Robert Graves at an international conference held in the poet's honor. Patricia Donovan pdonovan at buffalo.edu 716-645-5000 ext 1414 Release Date: September 2, 2008 BUFFALO, N.Y. -- Michael Basinski, Ph.D., of Buffalo, curator of the Poetry Collection at the University at Buffalo, will discuss the university's significant Robert Graves holdings at the ninth annual international Robert Graves Conference to be held at St. John's College, Oxford University, Sept. 9-13. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman Tue Sep 2 18:58:39 2008 From: bobgrumman (Bob Grumman) Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2008 17:58:39 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] When poems leave you speechless In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <48BDC51F.2020300@nut-n-but.net> I think you've shown us this once before, Hal. Anyway, it IS interesting. What strikes me is that there's no mention of beauty or aesthetics. There's "philosophy," which may be thought to have to do with "truth." Strangely, from someone supposedly representing the wilds of contemporary poetry, it's almost entirely verbal. He lists "visual shape," but nothing else having to do with the visual potential of a poem, and--unless I missed it--nothing about the direct use of science in poetry (or even of science as subject matter, which is entirely different). The computer doesn't exist so far as this list is concerned. He leaves out the many specific pluraethetic devises I'd have on such a list, like intra-syllable flow-break (to mention a minor one). In summation, I'd say (going by this list) he's probably a good twenty years ahead of Kirsch and the NY Times, but a generation behind what the most innovative poets are doing nowadays. I know he knows more than this list shows, but the list suggests an incomplete severance from poetic conventionality--verbocentricity, to be precise. Lots of good current poetry is all words, but not as much of half the best current poetry is (if you believe the best poetry ought to do more than repeat the subjects and handling of some previous generation's poetry). --Bob G. From JforJames Tue Sep 2 18:39:27 2008 From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2008 18:39:27 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Inside the Crocodile Message-ID: Inside the Crocodile The deciphered scraps of papyrus found wound inside the mummified crocodile, Sappho, Herodotus, Pindar and the Pre-Socratics saved from oblivion, they say. Because it was all old, we believed it was all gold. Could there not have been a few Attic hacks among the ancients? Then again, we are all writing inside the crocodile, and it?s dark in there. A stick shoved in at last moment, that stylus used to scrawl urwords in dust, stuck there to hold open its snaggle-toothed overbite. And now that we?ve staked our life on the pen, it becomes the gnomon of time, a monolith casting no shadow while we live, the abyss beyond carbon black as ink But that maw knows more than we do, so we must trust that it will disgorge a few fine fragments worth our attention, admiration. **************It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel deal here. (http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames Tue Sep 2 19:15:30 2008 From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2008 19:15:30 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] litmag watch: NOON Message-ID: Subject: NOON 6 AVAILABLE > > >> Issue 6 of NOON: Journal of the Short Poem is now available. With >> 72 pages of poems, it is handbound and published in an edition of >> 200 copies. For a copy sent via airmail, please send US$14 (cash or >> international postal money order) or 7 pounds (cheque) to Philip >> Rowland at the following address: Minami Motomachi 4-49-506, >> Shinjuku- ku, Tokyo 160-0012, Japan. Additional copies will be sent >> post-free (add $10 / 5 pounds per copy); likewise, if you would >> like a copy of Issue 5 sent together with 6. >> >> Contributors to NOON 6 are: Ravi Shankar, Daniel Zimmerman, Eleanor >> Stanford, Jane Hirshfield, John Levy, David Miller, Lee Gurga, >> Onishi Yasuyo, Yagi Mikajo, Uda Kiyoko, Philip Messenger, Niels >> Hav, Roberta Beary, Peggy Willis Lyles, Halvard Johnson, Lionel >> Kearns, Peter Yovu, Alexis Rotella, Michael McClintock, John >> Phillips, Richard Gilbert, Keiji Minato, Barry Schwabsky, Alan >> Halsey, Margaret Stawowy, Larissa Shmailo, Jane Joritz-Nakagawa, >> Ruth Lepson, Jane Monson, Elizabeth Robinson, Robin Magowan, Jerry >> Gordon, Patrick Donnelly and Stephen Miller, Jim Moore. >> >> If you would like a review copy, please let me know. >> >> The reading period for the next issue is scheduled for October >> (email submissions welcome at that time). >> >> All the best, >> >> Philip Rowland (editor and publisher) >> NOON: Journal of the Short Poem >> noonpress at mac.com **************It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel deal here. (http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard Tue Sep 2 19:25:03 2008 From: halvard (Halvard Johnson) Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2008 18:25:03 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Exercises Message-ID: <0748AEB3-46E0-4F83-AEEA-F12E35D4FBA9@earthlink.net> Exercises 1. Write/read a poem that is torture to both the reader and the writer. 2. Waterboard a sonnet. 3. Climb on a poem and take it for a spin around the block. 4. Read the first word of a poem and then every other word thereafter. Then read the second word and every other word thereafter. How do the two readings differ? 5. See the poem as a mountain. Plan your ascent to the peak and then your descent. Don't forget your oxygen. 6. View the poem as a hole you're digging. How do you know when to stop? How far down do you go? How do you get out once you've stopped digging? 7. Write the poem backwards, and then make it make sense, or not. 8. Imagine the poem to be a city that lies beneath sea-level. How do you prevent it's being flooded the next time a hurricane comes along? 9. Imagine the poem as a hurricane. 10. Put your poem (or someone else's) through basic training. Teach it to march. Train it to kill. Hal "The problems with computers is that there is not enough Africa in them." --Brian Eno Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Opus40-01 Wed Sep 3 11:03:29 2008 From: Opus40-01 (TheOldMole) Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2008 11:03:29 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Exercises In-Reply-To: <0748AEB3-46E0-4F83-AEEA-F12E35D4FBA9@earthlink.net> References: <0748AEB3-46E0-4F83-AEEA-F12E35D4FBA9@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <48BEA741.5070308@opus40.org> This is great. Halvard Johnson wrote: > Exercises > > 1. Write/read a poem that is torture to both the reader and the > writer. > > 2. Waterboard a sonnet. > > 3. Climb on a poem and take it for a spin around the block. > > 4. Read the first word of a poem and then every other word > thereafter. Then read the second word and every other word > thereafter. How do the two readings differ? > > 5. See the poem as a mountain. Plan your ascent to the peak > and then your descent. Don't forget your oxygen. > > 6. View the poem as a hole you're digging. How do you know > when to stop? How far down do you go? How do you get out > once you've stopped digging? > > 7. Write the poem backwards, and then make it make sense, > or not. > > 8. Imagine the poem to be a city that lies beneath sea-level. > How do you prevent it's being flooded the next time a > hurricane comes along? > > 9. Imagine the poem as a hurricane. > > 10. Put your poem (or someone else's) through basic training. > Teach it to march. Train it to kill. > > > > > Hal > > "The problems with computers is that there is > not enough Africa in them." > --Brian Eno > > Halvard Johnson > ================ > halvard at earthlink.net > http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html > > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > > http://www.hamiltonstone.org > http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ The moral is this: in American verse, The better you are, the pay is worse. --Corey Ford From amyhappens Wed Sep 3 12:34:05 2008 From: amyhappens (amy king) Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2008 09:34:05 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetry Turn On! [on behalf of Nathaniel Siegel] Message-ID: <252118.28136.qm@web83314.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> PRESS CONTACT: NATHANIELSIEGEL Email nathanielsiegel at nyc.rr.com Monday Sept 8th, 2008 8pm to 10pm St. Mark?s Church in-the-Bowery 131 East 10th Street New York, NY 10003 Main Sanctuary Poetry Turn On ! An evening of poetry readings by poets: Miguel Algarin, Mahogany Browne, Regie Cabico, Steve Cannon, Michael Cirelli, Brenda Coultas, Sam Diaz, John Farris, Merry Fortune, Celena Glenn, Lois Griffith, Bill Kushner, Jill Magi, Filip Marinovich, Chris Martin, Stephen Motika, Amy Ouzoonian, Eve Packer, Kristin Prevallet, Shappy, Moonshine Shorey, Rachel M. Simon, Tracy K. Smith, Stacy Szymaszek, Clare Ultimo. This incredible group of poets come together to present their work and represent five of the numerous poetry organizations and venues that serve New York City and the World poetry throughout the year: The Bowery Poetry Club, A Gathering Of The Tribes, Nuyorican Poets Caf?, The Poetry Project and Poets House. A reception in the Parish Hall will follow the reading, and serve as an opportunity to meet the poets, purchase books, become a member, and celebrate this year?s HOWL !? Festival. This reading is FREE and Open to the Public. Websites for the participating organizations are listed here: www.bowerypoetry.com www.tribes.org www.nuyorican.org www.poetryproject.com www.poetshouse.org? Contact: nathanielsiegel at nyc.rr.com? ____________________________________________________________ For photo?s contact Nathaniel Siegel _______ Movies With Poems http://amyking.wordpress.com/2008/08/11/movies-with-poetry/ Poems To Do http://amyking.wordpress.com/2008/06/12/poetry-exercises-wanted/ Amy's Alias http://amyking.org/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames Wed Sep 3 16:08:37 2008 From: jforjames (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2008 16:08:37 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Mass Poetry In-Reply-To: <4583a811cbc2a59f4fe64fd9f0bf97b3.21547@e2ma.net> References: <4583a811cbc2a59f4fe64fd9f0bf97b3.21547@e2ma.net> Message-ID: <8CADC17FC135A84-1348-831@webmail-mf06.sysops.aol.com> -----Original Message----- From: Michael Ansara, The Massachusetts Poetry Festival Sent: Wed, 3 Sep 2008 4:07 pm Subject: An Epic Celebration of Poetry If you're having trouble viewing this email, you may see it online. Dear?Friend, ? The very first Massachusetts Poetry Festival will take place in just seven weeks. As David Mehegan of the Boston Globe wrote: "Why has no one thought of doing this in Massachusetts before?" Well now we have. And we need to let everyone know about this historic event. For the very first time, gathering in one place will be a cross-section of Massachusetts poets: Robert Pinksy, Eileen Myles, Martin Espada, Lucy Brock-Broido, Regie Gibson, Rhine Espaillat, Richard Hoffman, Joyce Perseroff, XJ Kennedy, Marjorie Agosin, Joe Torra, Ed Sanders, Ann Killough, Lloyd Schwartz and even more. ? And along with them are workshops for young people, workshops for new poets, workshops for established poets, a small press fair with small presses from across the country, poetry with music, programs for teachers, intercollegiate student readings, high school student readings, slam and performance poetry, films, debates and more, all in Lowell this October 10th, 11th and 12th. You can see the whole schedule at ? www.masspoetry.org. We need you to help us spread the word. Most events are free. There are tickets for the three headline readings on sale at the web site. ? www.masspoetry.org?; We need you to email your friends and encourage them to tell their friends. Please help us to make this first Massachusetts Poetry Festival a huge hit by letting your friends know what we have planned. This fall we need to stand up for Poetry. We need to make poetry visible. We need to make it part of our Commonwealth's future, not just our heritage. For one weekend we can celebrate poetry and poets, mingle with poets famous and unknown and about to be known, learn and teach, sing and be moved. We can bring our children and have them play and participate. We can be stirred, shaken and inspired. Again - take a quick look at what is planned: www.masspoetry.org and then please help by sending this on to your friends. Looking forward to seeing you in Lowell for an epic celebration of Poetry. Yours, Michael Ansara For the Planning Committee, Massachusetts Poetry Festival Massachusetts Poetry Festival http://masspoetry.org/ Office of Cultural Affairs & Special Events 375 Merrimack Street, Lowell, MA 01852 This email was sent to jforjames at aol.com. To ensure that you continue receiving our emails, please add us to your address book or safe list. manage your preferences | opt out using TrueRemove?. Got this as a forward? Sign up to receive=2 0our future emails. powered by -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rwilsnac Wed Sep 3 18:29:24 2008 From: rwilsnac (Richard Wilsnack) Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2008 17:29:24 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Hurricanes In-Reply-To: <48BEA741.5070308@opus40.org> References: <0748AEB3-46E0-4F83-AEEA-F12E35D4FBA9@earthlink.net> <48BEA741.5070308@opus40.org> Message-ID: <48BF0FC4.1090707@medicine.nodak.edu> Halvard Johnson's "exercise" to... >> >> 9. Imagine the poem as a hurricane. >> ...got me to wondering about what poets have written about hurricanes, not just ordinary storms. One such poem sticks in my memory, rightly or wrongly. Perhaps others can offer better examples than this. Richard W. Wilsnack rwilsnac at medicine.nodak.edu ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Problems with Hurricanes A campesino looked at the air and told me with hurricanes it's not the wind or the noise or the water. I'll tell you he said. It's the mangoes, avocados, green plantains and bananas flying into town like projectiles. How would your family feel if they had to tell the generations that you got killed by a flying banana. Death by drowning has honor. If the wind picked you up and slammed you against a mountain boulder this would not carry shame. But to suffer a mango smashing your skull or a plantain hitting your temple at 70 miles per hour is the ultimate disgrace. The campesino takes off his hat ? as a sign of respect toward the fury of the wind and says Don't worry about the noise. Don't worry about the water. Don't worry about the wind. If you are going out beware of mangoes and all such beautiful sweet things. From Maraca: New and Selected Poems 1965-2000 by Victor Hern?ndez Cruz ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From Rsgwynn1 Wed Sep 3 22:14:43 2008 From: Rsgwynn1 (Rsgwynn1 at cs.com) Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2008 22:14:43 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Hurricanes Message-ID: In a message dated 9/3/2008 5:30:02 PM Central Daylight Time, rwilsnac at medicine.nodak.edu writes: > > ...got me to wondering about what poets have written about > hurricanes, not just ordinary storms. Phillip Freneau and Alan Dugan come to mind, and Shakespeare. Byron? Rupert Brooke has a great seasickness poem. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd Thu Sep 4 00:34:01 2008 From: grahamd (David Graham) Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2008 23:34:01 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Hurricanes In-Reply-To: <48BF0FC4.1090707@medicine.nodak.edu> References: <0748AEB3-46E0-4F83-AEEA-F12E35D4FBA9@earthlink.net> <48BEA741.5070308@opus40.org> <48BF0FC4.1090707@medicine.nodak.edu> Message-ID: <8AF620DF-911B-4B54-8D8F-AB1892C741AA@ripon.edu> Derek Walcott's "Hurucan" is another. ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.mac.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== On Sep 3, 2008, at 5:29 PM, Richard Wilsnack wrote: > Halvard Johnson's "exercise" to... >>> >>> 9. Imagine the poem as a hurricane. >>> > > ...got me to wondering about what poets have written about > hurricanes, not just ordinary storms. > > One such poem sticks in my memory, rightly or wrongly. > Perhaps others can offer better examples than this. > > Richard W. Wilsnack > rwilsnac at medicine.nodak.edu > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > ------------------------ > > Problems with Hurricanes > > A campesino looked at the air > and told me > with hurricanes it's not the wind > or the noise or the water. > I'll tell you he said. > It's the mangoes, avocados, > green plantains and bananas > flying into town like projectiles. > > How would your family > feel if they had to tell > the generations that you > got killed by a flying > banana. > > Death by drowning has honor. > If the wind picked you up > and slammed you > against a mountain boulder > this would not carry shame. > But > to suffer a mango smashing > your skull > or a plantain hitting your > temple at 70 miles per hour > is the ultimate disgrace. > > The campesino takes off his hat ? > as a sign of respect > toward the fury of the wind > and says > Don't worry about the noise. > Don't worry about the water. > Don't worry about the wind. > If you are going out > beware of mangoes > and all such beautiful > sweet things. > > From Maraca: New and Selected Poems 1965-2000 > by Victor Hern?ndez Cruz > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > - > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From skip Thu Sep 4 10:08:51 2008 From: skip (Skip Fox) Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2008 09:08:51 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Hurricanes In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <969A628629E44F37BD589555B2A789E6@win.louisiana.edu> I have one in Snow Monkey: "Lily." Wasn't going to publish it after Katrina since it's such a cartoon. (Lily hit over St Landry Parish, LA, where I live. Gustav hit us as well. I don't yet have power and entire parish is beat up pretty badly.) It might be in my next collection. If anyone wants a copy of _For To_ which just came out, please send me your address. (Anny, yours will come slow boat, etc.) -----Original Message----- From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Rsgwynn1 at cs.com Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2008 9:15 PM To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Hurricanes In a message dated 9/3/2008 5:30:02 PM Central Daylight Time, rwilsnac at medicine.nodak.edu writes: ...got me to wondering about what poets have written about hurricanes, not just ordinary storms. Phillip Freneau and Alan Dugan come to mind, and Shakespeare. Byron? Rupert Brooke has a great seasickness poem. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd Thu Sep 4 10:16:50 2008 From: grahamd (David Graham) Date: Thu, 04 Sep 2008 09:16:50 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Hurricanes In-Reply-To: <969A628629E44F37BD589555B2A789E6@win.louisiana.edu> Message-ID: I've only read bits & pieces so far, but Patricia Smith's new collection, Blood Dazzler, focuses on Hurricane Katrina. What I've seen so far I like a lot; I heard her read from the manuscript a couple years ago and was, well, dazzled. ======================== On 9/4/08 9:08 AM, "Skip Fox" wrote: > I have one in Snow Monkey: ?Lily.? Wasn?t going to publish it after Katrina > since it?s such a cartoon. (Lily hit over St Landry Parish, LA, where I live. > Gustav hit us as well. I don?t yet have power and entire parish is beat up > pretty badly.) It might be in my next collection. > > If anyone wants a copy of _For To_ which just came out, please send me your > address. (Anny, yours will come slow boat, etc.) > > -----Original Message----- > From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu > [mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Rsgwynn1 at cs.com > Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2008 9:15 PM > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Hurricanes > > In a message dated 9/3/2008 5:30:02 PM Central Daylight Time, > rwilsnac at medicine.nodak.edu writes: > > > > ...got me to wondering about what poets have written about > hurricanes, not just ordinary storms. > > Phillip Freneau and Alan Dugan come to mind, and Shakespeare. Byron? Rupert > Brooke has a great seasickness poem. > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry ==================================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/About%20Me.html Poetry Library: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ==================================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From amyhappens Thu Sep 4 12:39:54 2008 From: amyhappens (amy king) Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2008 09:39:54 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetry Reading at KGB Tomorrow Night! Message-ID: <733660.91888.qm@web83302.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> TOMORROW NIGHT! ? Poetry Reading/ Book Release/ Leukemia Fundraiser September 5th 7pm at KGB Bar (85 E. 4th St., New York, NY 10003) ? Readers will be: David Lehman Meghan Punschke Amy King Ana Bo?i?evi? ? With Raffles for Baskets of Books/ Goodies, Book Sales, Special gifts for $20+ Donors, and a GRAND PRIZE WINNER!!! Free to get in - $5 Raffle tix - Drinks at the bar ? ? This Book Release Party for Meghan Punschke's new collection of poetry, Stratification, will double as a fundraising event for the Leukemia & Lymphoma Society (LLS). Other readers that night will include, David Lehman, Amy King, and Ana Bo?i?evi?.There will be a raffle for prizes, which will include poetry books, anthologies and other poetry related items from several small presses including BlazeVOX Books, No Tell Books, Coconut Books, Goss 183, Ahsahta Press, Octopus Books, Black Ocean Books and Lame House. The Grand Prize winner will be awarded books from many of the above, plus the 30" x 40" acrylic on canvas painting that appears on the cover of Stratification. Prizes total in excess of $2000, and each raffle ticket will be sold for $5 with all of the proceeds going directly to LLS. Some of the evening's book sales to the charity, and there will be special prizes for those who donate more than $20. ? David Lehman is a poet, writer, and editor. His seven books of poetry include When a Woman Loves a Man (2005). In 1996 he began writing a poem a day as an experiment. The practice continued for five years, and two books resulted: The Daily Mirror (2000) and The Evening Sun (2002), both from Scribner. Lehman's prose books include The Perfect Murder and Signs of the Times. He is the series editor of The Best American Poetry, which he launched in 1988. He has also edited the latest edition of The Oxford Book of American Poetry (2006), The Best American Erotic Poems (2008), and Great American Prose Poems (2003), among other books. He heads the poetry division of the New School's graduate writing program, in which he has taught since the program's inception in 1996. ? Meghan Punschke is the author of Stratification (BlazeVOX Books, 2008). She resides in New York City, and has an MFA in Poetry from the New School. She is the curator and host of Word of Mouth, a reading series dedicated to poets and fiction writers. She is also the Managing Editor for the literary journal Oranges & Sardines. Her poetry was nominated for a Pushcart Prize in 2007. Please visit www.megpunschke.com for more info. ? Amy King is the author of I'm the Man Who Loves You and Antidotes for an Alibi, both from Blazevox Books, and most recently, Kiss Me With the Mouth of Your Country (Dusie Press). She is the moderator for the Poetics List and the Women's Poetry Listserv, and teaches English and Creative Writing at Nassau Community College. She is currently editing an anthology, The Urban Poetic, forthcoming from Factory School.? Please visit www.amyking.org for more. ? Ana Bo?i?evi? emigrated to NYC from Croatia in 1997. She's the author of chapbooks Document (Octopus Books, 2007) and Morning News (Kitchen Press, 2006). Look for her recent work in Denver Quarterly, Hotel Amerika, Bat City Review, absent, typo, fou and elsewhere. With Amy King, she is currently editing an anthology, The Urban Poetic (Factory School, forthcoming). Ana works at The Center for the Humanities at the Graduate Center, CUNY. ? ? Pass it along! -- Best Regards, Meghan Punschke WoM Curator --- The WoM Curator will be running in the Nike Women's Marathon on Oct.19th as a team member of the Leukemia and Lymphoma Society. Support her efforts today by visiting: http://pages.teamintraining.org/nyc/nikesf08/mpunschke _______ Movies With Poems http://amyking.wordpress.com/2008/08/11/movies-with-poetry/ Poems To Do http://amyking.wordpress.com/2008/06/12/poetry-exercises-wanted/ Amy's Alias http://amyking.org/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames Thu Sep 4 21:12:21 2008 From: jforjames (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Thu, 04 Sep 2008 21:12:21 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Heinrich Heine Message-ID: <8CADD0B951F8301-50C-34D4@WEBMAIL-MB09.sysops.aol.com> http://www.moreintelligentlife.com/story/heinrich-heine?s-travel-pictures Special to MORE INTELLIGENT LIFE Heinrich Heine (1797-1856) wanted to have his cake and eat it too. In his writing he succeeded on this point, and mostly splendidly. He was hugely knowing and not a little naive; an eccentric who had lucid and prophetic insights about his time; an ardent defender of liberal causes yet an anarchic humorist who laughed at most things under the sun. Before his mid-20s he emerged, virtually fully-formed, as one of Germany's leading poets. Only a few years later, he was one of Europe's liveliest prose writers. Baudelaire saw a kindred spirit, praising him as a writer who "would be a genius if only he turned himself more often to the divine." George Eliot, adamant that he was a genius, asserted that Heine did more for German prose than Goethe -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wwmorgan Thu Sep 4 21:30:18 2008 From: wwmorgan (Bill Morgan) Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2008 20:30:18 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Clarification of Call for Poems--The Hardy Review Message-ID: <00b701c90ef6$f4a33490$dde99db0$@edu> Dear New Poetry, Hardy Forum, and Hardy POTM listmembers- In response to a query I received about my Call for Poems for The Hardy Review (reproduced below), I wanted to make clear that we are casting a large net here. We welcome poems with even the slimmest, most distant connection with Hardy: our readers are prepared to exercise their aesthetic imaginations. It is by no means necessary that a poem be in Hardy's style or be in response to a specific Hardy work (though those are welcome too). I would call your attention to the clause below, asking for poems "that might interest an audience of Hardy readers for some other reason we haven't yet imagined." You send me the high-quality poems, and I and my fellow screeners will attempt to impersonate that imaginative audience of Hardy readers! Surprise me. I hope that's clearer. Cheers, Bill Morgan * * * The Hardy Review, an annual publication for Thomas Hardy scholars and enthusiasts and published by the Thomas Hardy Association, welcomes submissions of high-quality, original poems that may take Hardy as their subject, that may mention him or his work, that may recall something about him in their theme or technique, that may show his influence in subtle or direct ways, or that might interest an audience of Hardy readers for some other reason we haven't yet imagined. The Review is just now entering upon its 10th year. It is edited by Professor Rosemarie Morgan of Yale University and published in an attractive, slick-paper format by Maney Publishing. See a cover image and a sample table of contents at the Thomas Hardy Association's main page: http://www.yale.edu/hardysoc/Welcome/welcomet.htm Postal submissions, including a brief cover letter, brief bio, and SASE should be sent to: Bill Morgan 603 N. School Street Normal, IL 61761 Electronic submissions (with all the attendant formatting perils) may be sent to wwmorgan at ilstu.edu Cheers, Bill Morgan Poetry Editor, The Hardy Review -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From skip Fri Sep 5 15:18:30 2008 From: skip (Skip Fox) Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2008 14:18:30 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Snail mail address for Beth Garrison and Allen Bramhall? In-Reply-To: <00b701c90ef6$f4a33490$dde99db0$@edu> Message-ID: Could someone please send to skip at louisiana.edu -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames Fri Sep 5 15:41:43 2008 From: jforjames (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2008 15:41:43 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Can't get outta Dodge without hearing a poet Message-ID: <8CADDA68F3829E3-1924-266C@FWM-D19.sysops.aol.com> http://www.dodgepoetry.org/festival-2008/performers/poets/ ?Historic Waterloo Village in Stanhope, New Jersey will be re-opened especially for the audiences of up to 20,000 expected for the 12th biennial Geraldine R. Dodge Poetry Festival, which will run from Thursday, September 25 through Sunday, September 28, 2008. Join poets Chris Abani, Coleman Barks, Taha Muhammad Ali, Coral Bracho, Billy Collins, Lucille Clifton, Mark Doty, Mart?n Espada, Joy Harjo, Robert Hass, Brenda Hillman, Edward Hirsch, Jane Hirshfield, Ted Kooser, Maxine Kumin, Naomi Shihab Nye, Sharon Olds, Linda Pastan, Charles Simic, C.D. Wright, Franz Wright and dozens of other accomplished poets, musicians and storytellers for four days of poetry and music beside the Musconetcong River and among Waterloo Village?s lawns, trees, and landmark historic buildings. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames Fri Sep 5 16:40:56 2008 From: jforjames (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2008 16:40:56 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] WorldPo: Oz, Robert Gray Message-ID: <8CADDAED4CCB987-1924-2A50@FWM-D19.sysops.aol.com> http://www.smh.com.au/news/books/poet-palely-loitering/2008/09/05/1220121498998.html September 6, 2008 ROBERT GRAY was six when he had what he calls "a baptism in reality". The family dog, much admired for his glossy, black coat and sharp mind, was hit by a truck. The kelpie's innards were smeared on the road. Or, using Gray's mother's expression, the dog was "unpacked". Its name was Lucky. As the dog's remains were shovelled away, the boy realised Lucky's "extraordinary smartness had been made nothing, in an instant ? this was just the empty way of things ? I felt myself swimming with the horror of it, and yet I was standing upright and steady - like a top spinning so rapidly, it seems almost unmoved on its stem. I knew I must never hint to my mother about such feelings." Gray's path was set, both in his character - detached, observant - and as a writer, renowned for the imagery of his poetry. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames Fri Sep 5 16:56:00 2008 From: jforjames (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2008 16:56:00 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] =?utf-8?q?Does_Gl=C3=BCck_rime_with_Luck=3F?= Message-ID: <8CADDB0EFB3923B-1258-1876@WEBMAIL-DC15.sysops.aol.com> ?Compiled by JULIE BLOOM Published: September 3, 2008 The poet Louise Gl?ck has been selected as the recipient of the 2008 Wallace Stevens Award from the Academy of American Poets. The $100,000 prize recognizes ?outstanding and proven mastery in the art of poetry.? Brigit Pegeen Kelly was named recipient of the Academy Fellowship, which provides a $25,000 stipend. The academy?s board of chancellors, which consists of 14 eminent poets, selects the award and fellowship recipients. Robert Pinsky, a chancellor, said in a statement, ?Louise sometimes uses language so plain it can almost seem like someone is speaking to you spontaneously ? but it?s always intensely distinguished.? More Articles in Arts ? A version of this article appeared in print on September 4, 2008, on page E2 of the New York edition. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From GrahamD Fri Sep 5 23:23:15 2008 From: GrahamD (David Graham) Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2008 22:23:15 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] R.I.P. Robert Giroux Message-ID: <33EF449B-C8A2-47D9-B38E-CBDBD8B541E3@ripon.edu> Robert Giroux, Publisher, Dies at 94 By CHRISTOPHER LEHMANN-HAUPT Published: September 5, 2008 Robert Giroux, an editor who introduced and nurtured some of the major authors of the 20th century and who rose to join one of the nation?s most distinguished publishing houses as a partner, making it Farrar, Straus & Giroux, died Friday in Tinton Falls, N.J. He was 94. http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/05/books/06giroux.html?_r=1&oref=slogin ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.mac.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From GrahamD Sat Sep 6 00:30:25 2008 From: GrahamD (David Graham) Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2008 23:30:25 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Laura Jensen Message-ID: <3F78D0E3-C346-4158-AD53-D891190900BA@ripon.edu> A symposium on Laura Jensen in the latest issue of *Pleiades*, available online as a PDF file: http://www.ucmo.edu/englphil/pleiades/JensenSymposium.pdf Good to see this strange & fine poet getting some overdue recognition. Last I checked, her books were all or almost all out of print, unfortunately. The Red Dog You know that he is going to die as soon as I tell you he is standing beside me his hair in spikes and dripping from his body. He turns his head. Canadian geese all of them floating along the shore. The red dog is swimming for them only his head shows now they flap into a curve and move farther along the bay. You know that he is going to die this is the time for it this is the best time for it while there is a way to vanish while the geese are moving off to be their hard sounds as their bodies leave the water. --Laura Jensen. Bad Boats. Ecco Press, 1977. ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.mac.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From AlMaginnes Sat Sep 6 07:19:19 2008 From: AlMaginnes (AlMaginnes at aol.com) Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2008 07:19:19 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Laura Jensen Message-ID: I think Kevin Prufer at Pleaides oversaw the reprinting of one of her books a few years ago. Can't remember which one unfortunately. **************Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. (http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cervantes.james Sat Sep 6 08:14:21 2008 From: cervantes.james (James Cervantes) Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2008 07:14:21 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Laura Jensen In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <648208b60809060514t7081597q898116d19a69eea9@mail.gmail.com> On Sat, Sep 6, 2008 at 6:19 AM, wrote: > I think Kevin Prufer at Pleaides oversaw the reprinting of one of her > books a few years ago. Can't remember which one unfortunately. > That would be Memory, though I think Bad Boats was also reprinted. A couple of new poems and a prose piece by Laura are forthcoming in The Salt River Review this fall. -- Jim ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning http://www.fieralingue.it/documenti/mr_bondo.pdf http://www.poetserv.org/jvc/home/index.html http://home.earthlink.net/~jvcervantes/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/12364573 at N08/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Opus40-01 Sat Sep 6 09:31:36 2008 From: Opus40-01 (TheOldMole) Date: Sat, 06 Sep 2008 09:31:36 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Does =?UTF-8?B?R2zDvGNrIHJpbWUgd2l0aCBMdWNrPw==?= In-Reply-To: <8CADDB0EFB3923B-1258-1876@WEBMAIL-DC15.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CADDB0EFB3923B-1258-1876@WEBMAIL-DC15.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <48C28638.7030806@opus40.org> No, with L?ck. jforjames at aol.com wrote: > Compiled by JULIE BLOOM > Published: September 3, 2008 > > The poet Louise Gl?ck has been selected as the recipient of the 2008 > Wallace Stevens Award from the Academy of American Poets. The $100,000 > prize recognizes ?outstanding and proven mastery in the art of > poetry.? Brigit Pegeen Kelly was named recipient of the Academy > Fellowship, which provides a $25,000 stipend. The academy?s board of > chancellors, which consists of 14 eminent poets, selects the award and > fellowship recipients. Robert Pinsky, a chancellor, said in a > statement, ?Louise sometimes uses language so plain it can almost seem > like someone is speaking to you spontaneously ? but it?s always > intensely distinguished.? > > More Articles in Arts ? A version of this article appeared in print on > September 4, 2008, on page E2 of the New York edition. > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Looking for spoilers and reviews on the new TV season? Get AOL's > ultimate guide to fall TV > . > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ The moral is this: in American verse, The better you are, the pay is worse. --Corey Ford From halvard Sat Sep 6 11:39:41 2008 From: halvard (Halvard Johnson) Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2008 10:39:41 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] When editors roamed the earth Message-ID: <6435CE8F-DF80-4C31-A301-FFCC28691107@earthlink.net> RIP Robert Giroux (1914-2008) http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/06/books/06giroux.html Hal "Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups." --George Carlin Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at earthlink.net halvard at gmail.com http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From amyhappens Sat Sep 6 13:56:29 2008 From: amyhappens (amy king) Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2008 10:56:29 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Tongues Afire -- Call For Writers Message-ID: <137726.77581.qm@web83313.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Tongues Afire: Creative Writing Workshop for Queer Women, Trans Women and Gender Non Conforming People of Color* ***** ? Workshop Facilitator: R. Erica Doyle ? WHEN: October 9, 2008 - December 11, 2008 Thursdays, 6:30 pm - 8:30 pm ? WHERE: Audre Lorde Project 85 South Oxford Street Brooklyn, New York 11217** ? CONTACT: 718.813.7240 tonguesafire at gmail.com ? How much: -FREE- ? Application Deadline: Tuesday, September 30th, 2008 *** ? ? **************************************************** ? ? These workshops, led by writer-teacher-performer R. Erica Doyle, are for writers of all levels, and will incorporate readings along with in-class workshop exercises in literary memoir, poetry, and short fiction.? Participating writers will develop methods of constructive critique and strategies for incorporating writing in their everyday lives. Information on publication, funding, and reading opportunities will be shared.? The workshop will culminate in a public reading at the Audre Lorde Project. ? ***************************************************** ? How to Apply: ? Apply via email with the following information to tonguesafire at gmail.com ? ??? * your contact information, ??? * one paragraph that describes who you are and how you identify as queer woman/gnc person of color (be creative and definitive) ??? * one - two paragraphs for why you want to be a part of Tongues Afire, and ??? * a writing sample? (1-3 pages of poetry, prose, fiction, or creative non-fiction) ? You may send questions to tonguesafire at gmail.com or call 718.813.7240. ? Space is limited. ? Application Deadline: Tuesday, September 30th, 2008 ? ?****************************************************** ? About the Facilitator: R. Erica Doyle is a writer of Trinidadian descent who lives in New York City. Her work has appeared in numerous journals and anthologies, including Best American Poetry, Ploughshares, Callaloo, Bum Rush the Page, and Ms. Magazine. She has performed her work at the Nuyorican Poets Caf?, Kennedy Center, Public Theater, St Mark's Poetry Project, Bar 13, Bowery Poetry Club, and the Calabash Literary Festival in Jamaica. She has taught creative writing workshops at the 14th Street Y, the Brooklyn Public Library, Union Settlement, Sisterspace and Books, and in the New York City public schools. She is the recipient of awards and fellowships from the Hurston/Wright and Astraea Foundations and the New York Foundation for the Arts. She is a fellow of Cave Canem, a workshop and retreat for African-American poets. ? ? ??? *********************************************** ? More Information: * Anyone who identifies as a woman of color is welcome, including people of color who self-identify as women, trans, butch lesbians, bois, drag queens, bi-gendered, two-spirited, drag kings, femme queens, A.G.s, genderqueer, non-gendered, andro, crossdressers, gender-benders, gender fluid as well as other identities of peoples who face gender oppression because of their non-conventional gender expression. ? ** Directions: C train to Lafayette Avenue; G train to Fulton Street; 2, 3, 4, 5, B, Q, D, M, N, R to Atlantic Avenue/Pacific Street) ? ***All applicants will be notified by Monday, October 6th.? Accepted applicants must confirm their attendance upon notification. ? Tongues Afire is made possible by support from the Audre Lorde Project. This event is funded in part by Poets and Writers, Inc. ? _______ Movies With Poems http://amyking.wordpress.com/2008/08/11/movies-with-poetry/ Poems To Do http://amyking.wordpress.com/2008/06/12/poetry-exercises-wanted/ Amy's Alias http://amyking.org/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From amyhappens Sat Sep 6 15:13:47 2008 From: amyhappens (amy king) Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2008 12:13:47 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Um ... Michael Jackson goes into studio with Robert Burns In-Reply-To: <137726.77581.qm@web83313.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <787583.10266.qm@web83309.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> One way to get poetry noticed ? ?Robert Burns?s poetry might have been dismissed as ?sentimental doggerel? by Jeremy Paxman but that hasn?t stopped diminutive I?m A Celebrity contestant David Gest and pop legend Michael Jackson from recording an album of the much-loved Scottish poet?s work. Gest?s spokesman said the album is a modern musical take on some of Burns? classic poems, and had been a long cherished project.? Continued: http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2008/aug/27/michael.jackson.david.gest.robertburns Amy _______ Movies With Poems http://amyking.wordpress.com/2008/08/11/movies-with-poetry/ Poems To Do http://amyking.wordpress.com/2008/06/12/poetry-exercises-wanted/ Amy's Alias http://amyking.org/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jbalizsprince Sat Sep 6 15:34:12 2008 From: jbalizsprince (Judy Prince) Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2008 15:34:12 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Tongues Afire -- Call For Writers In-Reply-To: <137726.77581.qm@web83313.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: <137726.77581.qm@web83313.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <7db1d01b0809061234l37e11a9evdcc3b82adb4a3343@mail.gmail.com> Hi, Amy, Does one have to be queer, trans, gender non-conforming and a person of colour all at the same time in the same body? And what is gender non-conforming? My body seems unlikely to non-conform at this stage of the game, thank goodness. Since "trans" means across or beyond, it's likely that I'll only be trans after I die. More's the pity. On the other hand, being a beyond or across woman sounds positively goddess-like! Should I be able to choose, then, I'd want to be a trans. [BTW, I'm having you on, in case you can't tell.] judyhappened2 2008/9/6 amy king > Tongues Afire: > > Creative Writing Workshop for > > Queer Women, Trans Women and Gender Non Conforming > > People of Color* > > > ***** > > > > Workshop Facilitator: R. Erica Doyle > > > > WHEN: > > October 9, 2008 - December 11, 2008 > > Thursdays, 6:30 pm - 8:30 pm > > > > WHERE: > > Audre Lorde Project 85 South Oxford Street > > Brooklyn, New York 11217** > > > > CONTACT: > > 718.813.7240 > > tonguesafire at gmail.com > > > > How much: > > -FREE- > > > > Application Deadline: > > Tuesday, September 30th, 2008 *** > > > > > > **************************************************** > > > > > > These workshops, led by writer-teacher-performer R. Erica Doyle, are for > writers of all levels, and will incorporate readings along with in-class > workshop exercises in literary memoir, poetry, and short fiction. Participating > writers will develop methods of constructive critique and strategies for > incorporating writing in their everyday lives. Information on publication, > funding, and reading opportunities will be shared. The workshop will > culminate in a public reading at the Audre Lorde Project. > > > > ***************************************************** > > > > How to Apply: > > > > Apply via email with the following information to tonguesafire at gmail.com > > > > * your contact information, > > * one paragraph that describes who you are and how you identify as > queer woman/gnc person of color (be creative and definitive) > > * one - two paragraphs for why you want to be a part of Tongues Afire, > and > > * a writing sample (1-3 pages of poetry, prose, fiction, or creative > non-fiction) > > > > You may send questions to tonguesafire at gmail.com or call 718.813.7240. > > > > Space is limited. > > > > Application Deadline: Tuesday, September 30th, 2008 > > > > ****************************************************** > > > > About the Facilitator: > > R. Erica Doyle is a writer of Trinidadian descent who lives in New York > City. Her work has appeared in numerous journals and anthologies, including > Best American Poetry, Ploughshares, Callaloo, Bum Rush the Page, and Ms. > Magazine. She has performed her work at the Nuyorican Poets Caf?, Kennedy > Center, Public Theater, St Mark's Poetry Project, Bar 13, Bowery Poetry > Club, and the Calabash Literary Festival in Jamaica. She has taught creative > writing workshops at the 14th Street Y, the Brooklyn Public Library, Union > Settlement, Sisterspace and Books, and in the New York City public schools. > She is the recipient of awards and fellowships from the Hurston/Wright and > Astraea Foundations and the New York Foundation for the Arts. She is a > fellow of Cave Canem, a workshop and retreat for African-American poets. > > > > > > *********************************************** > > > > More Information: > > * Anyone who identifies as a woman of color is welcome, including people of > color who self-identify as women, trans, butch lesbians, bois, drag queens, > bi-gendered, two-spirited, drag kings, femme queens, A.G.s, genderqueer, > non-gendered, andro, crossdressers, gender-benders, gender fluid as well as > other identities of peoples who face gender oppression because of their > non-conventional gender expression. > > > > ** Directions: C train to Lafayette Avenue; G train to Fulton Street; 2, 3, > 4, 5, B, Q, D, M, N, R to Atlantic Avenue/Pacific Street) > > > > ***All applicants will be notified by Monday, October 6th. Accepted > applicants must confirm their attendance upon notification. > > > > Tongues Afire is made possible by support from the Audre Lorde Project. > This event is funded in part by Poets and Writers, Inc. > > > > > _______ > > > Movies With Poems > http://amyking.wordpress.com/2008/08/11/movies-with-poetry/ > > Poems To Do > http://amyking.wordpress.com/2008/06/12/poetry-exercises-wanted/ > > Amy's Alias > http://amyking.org/ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Opus40-01 Sat Sep 6 15:51:39 2008 From: Opus40-01 (TheOldMole) Date: Sat, 06 Sep 2008 15:51:39 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Tongues Afire -- Call For Writers In-Reply-To: <7db1d01b0809061234l37e11a9evdcc3b82adb4a3343@mail.gmail.com> References: <137726.77581.qm@web83313.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <7db1d01b0809061234l37e11a9evdcc3b82adb4a3343@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <48C2DF4B.1020301@opus40.org> Wouldn't it be more about non-conforming /to/ the stereotypes of a given gender? Judy Prince wrote: > Hi, Amy, > > Does one have to be queer, trans, gender non-conforming and a person > of colour all at the same time in the same body? And what is gender > non-conforming? My body seems unlikely to non-conform at this stage > of the game, thank goodness. Since "trans" means across or beyond, > it's likely that I'll only be trans after I die. More's the pity. On > the other hand, being a beyond or across woman sounds positively > goddess-like! Should I be able to choose, then, I'd want to be a > trans. > > [BTW, I'm having you on, in case you can't tell.] > > judyhappened2 > > 2008/9/6 amy king > > > Tongues Afire: > > Creative Writing Workshop for > > Queer Women, Trans Women and Gender Non Conforming > > People of Color* > > > ***** > > > > Workshop Facilitator: R. Erica Doyle > > > > WHEN: > > October 9, 2008 - December 11, 2008 > > Thursdays, 6:30 pm - 8:30 pm > > > > WHERE: > > Audre Lorde Project 85 South Oxford Street > > Brooklyn, New York 11217** > > > > CONTACT: > > 718.813.7240 > > tonguesafire at gmail.com > > > > How much: > > -FREE- > > > > Application Deadline: > > Tuesday, September 30th, 2008 *** > > > > > > **************************************************** > > > > > > These workshops, led by writer-teacher-performer R. Erica Doyle, > are for writers of all levels, and will incorporate readings along > with in-class workshop exercises in literary memoir, poetry, and > short fiction. Participating writers will develop methods of > constructive critique and strategies for incorporating writing in > their everyday lives. Information on publication, funding, and > reading opportunities will be shared. The workshop will culminate > in a public reading at the Audre Lorde Project. > > > > ***************************************************** > > > > How to Apply: > > > > Apply via email with the following information to > tonguesafire at gmail.com > > > > * your contact information, > > * one paragraph that describes who you are and how you > identify as queer woman/gnc person of color (be creative and > definitive) > > * one - two paragraphs for why you want to be a part of > Tongues Afire, and > > * a writing sample (1-3 pages of poetry, prose, fiction, or > creative non-fiction) > > > > You may send questions to tonguesafire at gmail.com > or call 718.813.7240. > > > > Space is limited. > > > > Application Deadline: Tuesday, September 30th, 2008 > > > > ****************************************************** > > > > About the Facilitator: > > R. Erica Doyle is a writer of Trinidadian descent who lives in New > York City. Her work has appeared in numerous journals and > anthologies, including Best American Poetry, Ploughshares, > Callaloo, Bum Rush the Page, and Ms. Magazine. She has performed > her work at the Nuyorican Poets Caf?, Kennedy Center, Public > Theater, St Mark's Poetry Project, Bar 13, Bowery Poetry Club, and > the Calabash Literary Festival in Jamaica. She has taught creative > writing workshops at the 14th Street Y, the Brooklyn Public > Library, Union Settlement, Sisterspace and Books, and in the New > York City public schools. She is the recipient of awards and > fellowships from the Hurston/Wright and Astraea Foundations and > the New York Foundation for the Arts. She is a fellow of Cave > Canem, a workshop and retreat for African-American poets. > > > > > > *********************************************** > > > > More Information: > > * Anyone who identifies as a woman of color is welcome, including > people of color who self-identify as women, trans, butch lesbians, > bois, drag queens, bi-gendered, two-spirited, drag kings, femme > queens, A.G.s, genderqueer, non-gendered, andro, crossdressers, > gender-benders, gender fluid as well as other identities of > peoples who face gender oppression because of their > non-conventional gender expression. > > > > ** Directions: C train to Lafayette Avenue; G train to Fulton > Street; 2, 3, 4, 5, B, Q, D, M, N, R to Atlantic Avenue/Pacific > Street) > > > > ***All applicants will be notified by Monday, October 6th. > Accepted applicants must confirm their attendance upon notification. > > > > Tongues Afire is made possible by support from the Audre Lorde > Project. This event is funded in part by Poets and Writers, Inc. > > > > > > _______ > > > Movies With Poems > http://amyking.wordpress.com/2008/08/11/movies-with-poetry/ > > Poems To Do > http://amyking.wordpress.com/2008/06/12/poetry-exercises-wanted/ > > Amy's Alias > http://amyking.org/ > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ The moral is this: in American verse, The better you are, the pay is worse. --Corey Ford From jbalizsprince Sat Sep 6 16:53:54 2008 From: jbalizsprince (Judy Prince) Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2008 16:53:54 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Tongues Afire -- Call For Writers In-Reply-To: <48C2DF4B.1020301@opus40.org> References: <137726.77581.qm@web83313.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <7db1d01b0809061234l37e11a9evdcc3b82adb4a3343@mail.gmail.com> <48C2DF4B.1020301@opus40.org> Message-ID: <7db1d01b0809061353r2f77b64ubd331f62b88c6324@mail.gmail.com> Good point, Tad. I just don't know. If you're right, I wonder what that translates to in terms of what the nonconforming female actually does each day? I'm trying to imagine the ways in which conforming females behave and then compare that to what a nonconforming female might do. But right now I'd much rather have lunch. Best, Judy 2008/9/6 TheOldMole > Wouldn't it be more about non-conforming /to/ the stereotypes of a given > gender? > > Judy Prince wrote: > >> Hi, Amy, >> >> Does one have to be queer, trans, gender non-conforming and a person of >> colour all at the same time in the same body? And what is gender >> non-conforming? My body seems unlikely to non-conform at this stage of the >> game, thank goodness. Since "trans" means across or beyond, it's likely >> that I'll only be trans after I die. More's the pity. On the other hand, >> being a beyond or across woman sounds positively goddess-like! Should I be >> able to choose, then, I'd want to be a trans. >> [BTW, I'm having you on, in case you can't tell.] >> >> judyhappened2 >> >> 2008/9/6 amy king > >> >> Tongues Afire: >> >> Creative Writing Workshop for >> >> Queer Women, Trans Women and Gender Non Conforming >> >> People of Color* >> >> >> ***** >> >> >> Workshop Facilitator: R. Erica Doyle >> >> >> WHEN: >> >> October 9, 2008 - December 11, 2008 >> >> Thursdays, 6:30 pm - 8:30 pm >> >> >> WHERE: >> >> Audre Lorde Project 85 South Oxford Street >> >> Brooklyn, New York 11217** >> >> >> CONTACT: >> >> 718.813.7240 >> >> tonguesafire at gmail.com >> >> >> How much: >> >> -FREE- >> >> >> Application Deadline: >> >> Tuesday, September 30th, 2008 *** >> >> >> >> **************************************************** >> >> >> >> These workshops, led by writer-teacher-performer R. Erica Doyle, >> are for writers of all levels, and will incorporate readings along >> with in-class workshop exercises in literary memoir, poetry, and >> short fiction. Participating writers will develop methods of >> constructive critique and strategies for incorporating writing in >> their everyday lives. Information on publication, funding, and >> reading opportunities will be shared. The workshop will culminate >> in a public reading at the Audre Lorde Project. >> >> >> ***************************************************** >> >> >> How to Apply: >> >> >> Apply via email with the following information to >> tonguesafire at gmail.com >> >> >> * your contact information, >> >> * one paragraph that describes who you are and how you >> identify as queer woman/gnc person of color (be creative and >> definitive) >> >> * one - two paragraphs for why you want to be a part of >> Tongues Afire, and >> >> * a writing sample (1-3 pages of poetry, prose, fiction, or >> creative non-fiction) >> >> >> You may send questions to tonguesafire at gmail.com >> or call 718.813.7240. >> >> >> >> Space is limited. >> >> >> Application Deadline: Tuesday, September 30th, 2008 >> >> >> ****************************************************** >> >> >> About the Facilitator: >> >> R. Erica Doyle is a writer of Trinidadian descent who lives in New >> York City. Her work has appeared in numerous journals and >> anthologies, including Best American Poetry, Ploughshares, >> Callaloo, Bum Rush the Page, and Ms. Magazine. She has performed >> her work at the Nuyorican Poets Caf?, Kennedy Center, Public >> Theater, St Mark's Poetry Project, Bar 13, Bowery Poetry Club, and >> the Calabash Literary Festival in Jamaica. She has taught creative >> writing workshops at the 14th Street Y, the Brooklyn Public >> Library, Union Settlement, Sisterspace and Books, and in the New >> York City public schools. She is the recipient of awards and >> fellowships from the Hurston/Wright and Astraea Foundations and >> the New York Foundation for the Arts. She is a fellow of Cave >> Canem, a workshop and retreat for African-American poets. >> >> >> >> *********************************************** >> >> >> More Information: >> >> * Anyone who identifies as a woman of color is welcome, including >> people of color who self-identify as women, trans, butch lesbians, >> bois, drag queens, bi-gendered, two-spirited, drag kings, femme >> queens, A.G.s, genderqueer, non-gendered, andro, crossdressers, >> gender-benders, gender fluid as well as other identities of >> peoples who face gender oppression because of their >> non-conventional gender expression. >> >> >> ** Directions: C train to Lafayette Avenue; G train to Fulton >> Street; 2, 3, 4, 5, B, Q, D, M, N, R to Atlantic Avenue/Pacific >> Street) >> >> >> ***All applicants will be notified by Monday, October 6th. Accepted >> applicants must confirm their attendance upon notification. >> >> >> Tongues Afire is made possible by support from the Audre Lorde >> Project. This event is funded in part by Poets and Writers, Inc. >> >> >> >> >> _______ >> >> >> Movies With Poems >> http://amyking.wordpress.com/2008/08/11/movies-with-poetry/ >> >> Poems To Do >> http://amyking.wordpress.com/2008/06/12/poetry-exercises-wanted/ >> >> Amy's Alias >> http://amyking.org/ >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> > > -- > Tad Richards > http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ > http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ > > The moral is this: in American verse, > The better you are, the pay is worse. > --Corey Ford > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini Sat Sep 6 16:58:07 2008 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2008 22:58:07 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] me Message-ID: <4b65c2d70809061358m5016d3fcv421e3f1a5fa6031a@mail.gmail.com> I am sure you all missed me, but I did not miss you! I read all the messages but I could not send any out. A mail got stuck in the Outbox, I cannot delete, move, change, I can't do anything with or to it. It has been sitting there forever, and I do not know how to take it away (maybe prayers?). I therefore subscribed to the list with my gmail account. Happy to let my voice be heard, Anny -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jbalizsprince Sat Sep 6 17:02:57 2008 From: jbalizsprince (Judy Prince) Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2008 17:02:57 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] me In-Reply-To: <4b65c2d70809061358m5016d3fcv421e3f1a5fa6031a@mail.gmail.com> References: <4b65c2d70809061358m5016d3fcv421e3f1a5fa6031a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7db1d01b0809061402k1b407366m1cc99e53a1e88c01@mail.gmail.com> Welcome back, Anny! It feels like exile, doesn't it? Gmail's great. Judy 2008/9/6 Anny Ballardini > I am sure you all missed me, but I did not miss you! > > I read all the messages but I could not send any out. A mail got stuck in > the Outbox, I cannot delete, move, change, I can't do anything with or to > it. It has been sitting there forever, and I do not know how to take it away > (maybe prayers?). > I therefore subscribed to the list with my gmail account. > > Happy to let my voice be heard, > > Anny > > -- > Anny Ballardini > http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ > http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome > http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html > I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing > star! > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From screwzbaran Sat Sep 6 17:04:36 2008 From: screwzbaran (Suzanne Baran) Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2008 14:04:36 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Please remove me Message-ID: <2d5ffa0b0809061404l26667bccl14508955cdcdfd73@mail.gmail.com> I am no longer interested in receiving emails from this list. Please remove me at once. Thank you kindly! -- "Romance is the douche of the bourgeoisie" - David Berman, Silver Jews -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From amyhappens Sat Sep 6 17:08:25 2008 From: amyhappens (amy king) Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2008 14:08:25 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Tongues Afire -- Call For Writers In-Reply-To: <7db1d01b0809061353r2f77b64ubd331f62b88c6324@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <538081.99934.qm@web83309.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Hmm, I think this is a can of worms and a half.? Worms with swords.? Maybe the ideal conforming woman is the notion of a sort of 'modern woman' who embraces traditional views of womanhood while giving a pseudo-nod to the progress women have made.? Society-in-general can only tolerate so much outside of our familiar & secure comfort zones.? Right now, I'm thinking about Sarah Palin.? [Turning hand-crank of opener now ...]?? Off the top of my head, she would be symbolic of a conforming woman, esp versus Hillary Clinton.? Palin embraces, no, touts her 'soccer mom' role while also giving nods to 'progress' (she belongs to some right-wing 'feminist' group) for women (her nods resemble that of a pit bull gearing up for the lunge, seeing's how she's a self professed pit bull with lipstick.? oh how we do love our aggressive woman images, for fun only though).? I mean, she has no problem seeking power, but she's careful to do so under the traditional rubric of what it means to be a woman.??? She'll get more covert sexist flak than H. Clinton got, for sure.? Hillary didn't conform well enough; she didn't even bake cookies and was damned to hell and back for it!? Just google image search her name and see what comes up.? At least Palin knows what she has to do to make her own kind of selfish progress (i.e. sell out more 'progressive' or 'nonconforming' women for the payout).? Conform.? Hillary didn't play those cards right (i.e. she's slightly nonconforming in terms of her womanhood-- too many 'male' behaviors like thinking aloud, demanding she be taken seriously, didn't play up her nurturing side, etc -- yikes!).? Now I'm sitting in the can, wriggling with the worst, Amy _______ Movies With Poems http://amyking.wordpress.com/2008/08/11/movies-with-poetry/ Poems To Do http://amyking.wordpress.com/2008/06/12/poetry-exercises-wanted/ Amy's Alias http://amyking.org/ --- On Sat, 9/6/08, Judy Prince wrote: From: Judy Prince Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Tongues Afire -- Call For Writers To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &, Views" Date: Saturday, September 6, 2008, 4:53 PM Good point, Tad. ?I just don't know. ?If you're right, I wonder what that translates to in terms of what the nonconforming female actually does each day? ?I'm trying to imagine the ways in which conforming females behave and then compare that to what a nonconforming female might do. ?But right now I'd much rather have lunch. Best, Judy 2008/9/6 TheOldMole Wouldn't it be more about non-conforming /to/ the stereotypes of a given gender? Judy Prince wrote: Hi, Amy, Does one have to be queer, trans, gender non-conforming and a person of colour all at the same time in the same body? ?And what is gender non-conforming? ?My body seems unlikely to non-conform at this stage of the game, thank goodness. ?Since "trans" means across or beyond, it's likely that I'll only be trans after I die. ?More's the pity. ?On the other hand, being a beyond or across woman sounds positively goddess-like! ?Should I be able to choose, then, I'd want to be a trans. ? [BTW, I'm having you on, in case you can't tell.] judyhappened2 2008/9/6 amy king > ? ?Tongues Afire: ? ?Creative Writing Workshop for ? ?Queer Women, Trans Women and Gender Non Conforming ? ?People of Color* ? ?***** ? ? ? ?Workshop Facilitator: R. Erica Doyle ? ? ? ?WHEN: ? ?October 9, 2008 - December 11, 2008 ? ?Thursdays, 6:30 pm - 8:30 pm ? ? ? ?WHERE: ? ?Audre Lorde Project 85 South Oxford Street ? ?Brooklyn, New York 11217** ? ? ? ?CONTACT: ? ?718.813.7240 ? ?tonguesafire at gmail.com ? ? ? ?How much: ? ?-FREE- ? ? ? ?Application Deadline: ? ?Tuesday, September 30th, 2008 *** ? ? ? ? ? ?**************************************************** ? ? ? ? ? ?These workshops, led by writer-teacher-performer R. Erica Doyle, ? ?are for writers of all levels, and will incorporate readings along ? ?with in-class workshop exercises in literary memoir, poetry, and ? ?short fiction. ?Participating writers will develop methods of ? ?constructive critique and strategies for incorporating writing in ? ?their everyday lives. Information on publication, funding, and ? ?reading opportunities will be shared. ?The workshop will culminate ? ?in a public reading at the Audre Lorde Project. ? ? ? ?***************************************************** ? ? ? ?How to Apply: ? ? ? ?Apply via email with the following information to ? ?tonguesafire at gmail.com ? ? ? ? ? ?* your contact information, ? ? ? ?* one paragraph that describes who you are and how you ? ?identify as queer woman/gnc person of color (be creative and ? ?definitive) ? ? ? ?* one - two paragraphs for why you want to be a part of ? ?Tongues Afire, and ? ? ? ?* a writing sample ?(1-3 pages of poetry, prose, fiction, or ? ?creative non-fiction) ? ? ? ?You may send questions to tonguesafire at gmail.com ? ? or call 718.813.7240. ? ? ? ?Space is limited. ? ? ? ?Application Deadline: Tuesday, September 30th, 2008 ? ? ? ? ****************************************************** ? ? ? ?About the Facilitator: ? ?R. Erica Doyle is a writer of Trinidadian descent who lives in New ? ?York City. Her work has appeared in numerous journals and ? ?anthologies, including Best American Poetry, Ploughshares, ? ?Callaloo, Bum Rush the Page, and Ms. Magazine. She has performed ? ?her work at the Nuyorican Poets Caf?, Kennedy Center, Public ? ?Theater, St Mark's Poetry Project, Bar 13, Bowery Poetry Club, and ? ?the Calabash Literary Festival in Jamaica. She has taught creative ? ?writing workshops at the 14th Street Y, the Brooklyn Public ? ?Library, Union Settlement, Sisterspace and Books, and in the New ? ?York City public schools. She is the recipient of awards and ? ?fellowships from the Hurston/Wright and Astraea Foundations and ? ?the New York Foundation for the Arts. She is a fellow of Cave ? ?Canem, a workshop and retreat for African-American poets. ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?*********************************************** ? ? ? ?More Information: ? ?* Anyone who identifies as a woman of color is welcome, including ? ?people of color who self-identify as women, trans, butch lesbians, ? ?bois, drag queens, bi-gendered, two-spirited, drag kings, femme ? ?queens, A.G.s, genderqueer, non-gendered, andro, crossdressers, ? ?gender-benders, gender fluid as well as other identities of ? ?peoples who face gender oppression because of their ? ?non-conventional gender expression. ? ? ? ?** Directions: C train to Lafayette Avenue; G train to Fulton ? ?Street; 2, 3, 4, 5, B, Q, D, M, N, R to Atlantic Avenue/Pacific ? ?Street) ? ? ? ?***All applicants will be notified by Monday, October 6th. ? ?Accepted applicants must confirm their attendance upon notification. ? ? ? ?Tongues Afire is made possible by support from the Audre Lorde ? ?Project. This event is funded in part by Poets and Writers, Inc. ? ? ? ?_______ ? ?Movies With Poems ? ?http://amyking.wordpress.com/2008/08/11/movies-with-poetry/ ? ?Poems To Do ? ?http://amyking.wordpress.com/2008/06/12/poetry-exercises-wanted/ ? ?Amy's Alias ? ?http://amyking.org/ ? ?_______________________________________________ ? ?New-Poetry mailing list ? ?New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu ? ?http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry ------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ The moral is this: in American verse, The better you are, the pay is worse. ?--Corey Ford _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From amyhappens Sat Sep 6 17:09:51 2008 From: amyhappens (amy king) Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2008 14:09:51 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] me In-Reply-To: <4b65c2d70809061358m5016d3fcv421e3f1a5fa6031a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <769796.27320.qm@web83314.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> We're glad you're back, gmail or otherwise, Anny! Amy --- On Sat, 9/6/08, Anny Ballardini wrote I therefore subscribed to the list with my gmail account. Happy to let my voice be heard, Anny -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From amyhappens Sat Sep 6 17:11:38 2008 From: amyhappens (amy king) Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2008 14:11:38 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Tongues Afire -- Call For Writers In-Reply-To: <538081.99934.qm@web83309.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <94535.94256.qm@web83312.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Um, I meant "rhetoric" not rubric.? School's back, knocking at my brain. Hmm, I think this is a can of worms and a half.? Worms with swords.? Maybe the ideal conforming woman is the notion of a sort of 'modern woman' who embraces traditional views of womanhood while giving a pseudo-nod to the progress women have made.? Society-in-general can only tolerate so much outside of our familiar & secure comfort zones.? Right now, I'm thinking about Sarah Palin.? [Turning hand-crank of opener now ...]?? Off the top of my head, she would be symbolic of a conforming woman, esp versus Hillary Clinton.? Palin embraces, no, touts her 'soccer mom' role while also giving nods to 'progress' (she belongs to some right-wing 'feminist' group) for women (her nods resemble that of a pit bull gearing up for the lunge, seeing's how she's a self professed pit bull with lipstick.? oh how we do love our aggressive woman images, for fun only though).? I mean, she has no problem seeking power, but she's careful to do so under the traditional rubric of what it means to be a woman.??? She'll get more covert sexist flak than H. Clinton got, for sure.? Hillary didn't conform well enough; she didn't even bake cookies and was damned to hell and back for it!? Just google image search her name and see what comes up.? At least Palin knows what she has to do to make her own kind of selfish progress (i.e. sell out more 'progressive' or 'nonconforming' women for the payout).? Conform.? Hillary didn't play those cards right (i.e. she's slightly nonconforming in terms of her womanhood-- too many 'male' behaviors like thinking aloud, demanding she be taken seriously, didn't play up her nurturing side, etc -- yikes!).? Now I'm sitting in the can, wriggling with the worst, Amy _______ Movies With Poems http://amyking.wordpress.com/2008/08/11/movies-with-poetry/ Poems To Do http://amyking.wordpress.com/2008/06/12/poetry-exercises-wanted/ Amy's Alias http://amyking.org/ --- On Sat, 9/6/08, Judy Prince wrote: From: Judy Prince Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Tongues Afire -- Call For Writers To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &, Views" Date: Saturday, September 6, 2008, 4:53 PM Good point, Tad. ?I just don't know. ?If you're right, I wonder what that translates to in terms of what the nonconforming female actually does each day? ?I'm trying to imagine the ways in which conforming females behave and then compare that to what a nonconforming female might do. ?But right now I'd much rather have lunch. Best, Judy 2008/9/6 TheOldMole Wouldn't it be more about non-conforming /to/ the stereotypes of a given gender? Judy Prince wrote: Hi, Amy, Does one have to be queer, trans, gender non-conforming and a person of colour all at the same time in the same body? ?And what is gender non-conforming? ?My body seems unlikely to non-conform at this stage of the game, thank goodness. ?Since "trans" means across or beyond, it's likely that I'll only be trans after I die. ?More's the pity. ?On the other hand, being a beyond or across woman sounds positively goddess-like! ?Should I be able to choose, then, I'd want to be a trans. ? [BTW, I'm having you on, in case you can't tell.] judyhappened2 2008/9/6 amy king > ? ?Tongues Afire: ? ?Creative Writing Workshop for ? ?Queer Women, Trans Women and Gender Non Conforming ? ?People of Color* ? ?***** ? ? ? ?Workshop Facilitator: R. Erica Doyle ? ? ? ?WHEN: ? ?October 9, 2008 - December 11, 2008 ? ?Thursdays, 6:30 pm - 8:30 pm ? ? ? ?WHERE: ? ?Audre Lorde Project 85 South Oxford Street ? ?Brooklyn, New York 11217** ? ? ? ?CONTACT: ? ?718.813.7240 ? ?tonguesafire at gmail.com ? ? ? ?How much: ? ?-FREE- ? ? ? ?Application Deadline: ? ?Tuesday, September 30th, 2008 *** ? ? ? ? ? ?**************************************************** ? ? ? ? ? ?These workshops, led by writer-teacher-performer R. Erica Doyle, ? ?are for writers of all levels, and will incorporate readings along ? ?with in-class workshop exercises in literary memoir, poetry, and ? ?short fiction. ?Participating writers will develop methods of ? ?constructive critique and strategies for incorporating writing in ? ?their everyday lives. Information on publication, funding, and ? ?reading opportunities will be shared. ?The workshop will culminate ? ?in a public reading at the Audre Lorde Project. ? ? ? ?***************************************************** ? ? ? ?How to Apply: ? ? ? ?Apply via email with the following information to ? ?tonguesafire at gmail.com ? ? ? ? ? ?* your contact information, ? ? ? ?* one paragraph that describes who you are and how you ? ?identify as queer woman/gnc person of color (be creative and ? ?definitive) ? ? ? ?* one - two paragraphs for why you want to be a part of ? ?Tongues Afire, and ? ? ? ?* a writing sample ?(1-3 pages of poetry, prose, fiction, or ? ?creative non-fiction) ? ? ? ?You may send questions to tonguesafire at gmail.com ? ? or call 718.813.7240. ? ? ? ?Space is limited. ? ? ? ?Application Deadline: Tuesday, September 30th, 2008 ? ? ? ? ****************************************************** ? ? ? ?About the Facilitator: ? ?R. Erica Doyle is a writer of Trinidadian descent who lives in New ? ?York City. Her work has appeared in numerous journals and ? ?anthologies, including Best American Poetry, Ploughshares, ? ?Callaloo, Bum Rush the Page, and Ms. Magazine. She has performed ? ?her work at the Nuyorican Poets Caf?, Kennedy Center, Public ? ?Theater, St Mark's Poetry Project, Bar 13, Bowery Poetry Club, and ? ?the Calabash Literary Festival in Jamaica. She has taught creative ? ?writing workshops at the 14th Street Y, the Brooklyn Public ? ?Library, Union Settlement, Sisterspace and Books, and in the New ? ?York City public schools. She is the recipient of awards and ? ?fellowships from the Hurston/Wright and Astraea Foundations and ? ?the New York Foundation for the Arts. She is a fellow of Cave ? ?Canem, a workshop and retreat for African-American poets. ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?*********************************************** ? ? ? ?More Information: ? ?* Anyone who identifies as a woman of color is welcome, including ? ?people of color who self-identify as women, trans, butch lesbians, ? ?bois, drag queens, bi-gendered, two-spirited, drag kings, femme ? ?queens, A.G.s, genderqueer, non-gendered, andro, crossdressers, ? ?gender-benders, gender fluid as well as other identities of ? ?peoples who face gender oppression because of their ? ?non-conventional gender expression. ? ? ? ?** Directions: C train to Lafayette Avenue; G train to Fulton ? ?Street; 2, 3, 4, 5, B, Q, D, M, N, R to Atlantic Avenue/Pacific ? ?Street) ? ? ? ?***All applicants will be notified by Monday, October 6th. ? ?Accepted applicants must confirm their attendance upon notification. ? ? ? ?Tongues Afire is made possible by support from the Audre Lorde ? ?Project. This event is funded in part by Poets and Writers, Inc. ? ? ? ?_______ ? ?Movies With Poems ? ?http://amyking.wordpress.com/2008/08/11/movies-with-poetry/ ? ?Poems To Do ? ?http://amyking.wordpress.com/2008/06/12/poetry-exercises-wanted/ ? ?Amy's Alias ? ?http://amyking.org/ ? ?_______________________________________________ ? ?New-Poetry mailing list ? ?New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu ? ?http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry ------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ The moral is this: in American verse, The better you are, the pay is worse. ?--Corey Ford _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Opus40-01 Sat Sep 6 17:17:54 2008 From: Opus40-01 (TheOldMole) Date: Sat, 06 Sep 2008 17:17:54 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Tongues Afire -- Call For Writers In-Reply-To: <538081.99934.qm@web83309.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: <538081.99934.qm@web83309.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <48C2F382.2050909@opus40.org> I think Judy's asking for the impossible. No one non-conforms all the time. The most nonconforming nonconformist eats, sleeps, propels him/herself either with feet or a vehicle, pays bills of some sort, and has sex using some variation or another of the same catalog of equipment. amy king wrote: > Hmm, I think this is a can of worms and a half. Worms with swords. > > Maybe the ideal conforming woman is the notion of a sort of 'modern > woman' who embraces traditional views of womanhood while giving a > pseudo-nod to the progress women have made. Society-in-general can > only tolerate so much outside of our familiar & secure comfort zones. > Right now, I'm thinking about Sarah Palin. [Turning hand-crank of > opener now ...] Off the top of my head, she would be symbolic of a > conforming woman, esp versus Hillary Clinton. Palin embraces, no, > touts her 'soccer mom' role while also giving nods to 'progress' (she > belongs to some right-wing 'feminist' group) for women (her nods > resemble that of a pit bull gearing up for the lunge, seeing's how > she's a self professed pit bull with lipstick. oh how we do love our > aggressive woman images, for fun only though). I mean, she has no > problem seeking power, but she's careful to do so under the > traditional rubric of what it means to be a woman. She'll get more > covert sexist flak than H. Clinton got, for sure. Hillary didn't > conform well enough; she didn't even bake cookies and was damned to > hell and back for it! Just google image search her name and see what > comes up. At least Palin knows what she has to do to make her own > kind of selfish progress (i.e. sell out more 'progressive' or > 'nonconforming' women for the payout). Conform. Hillary didn't play > those cards right (i.e. she's slightly nonconforming in terms of her > womanhood-- too many 'male' behaviors like thinking aloud, demanding > she be taken seriously, didn't play up her nurturing side, etc -- > yikes!). > > Now I'm sitting in the can, wriggling with the worst, > > Amy > > _______ > > > Movies With Poems > http://amyking.wordpress.com/2008/08/11/movies-with-poetry/ > > Poems To Do > http://amyking.wordpress.com/2008/06/12/poetry-exercises-wanted/ > > Amy's Alias > http://amyking.org/ > > --- On *Sat, 9/6/08, Judy Prince //* wrote: > > From: Judy Prince > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Tongues Afire -- Call For Writers > To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &, Views" > > Date: Saturday, September 6, 2008, 4:53 PM > > Good point, Tad. I just don't know. If you're right, I wonder > what that translates to in terms of what the nonconforming female > actually does each day? I'm trying to imagine the ways in which > conforming females behave and then compare that to what a > nonconforming female might do. But right now I'd much rather have > lunch. > > Best, > > Judy > > 2008/9/6 TheOldMole > > > Wouldn't it be more about non-conforming /to/ the stereotypes > of a given gender? > > Judy Prince wrote: > > Hi, Amy, > > Does one have to be queer, trans, gender non-conforming > and a person of colour all at the same time in the same > body? And what is gender non-conforming? My body seems > unlikely to non-conform at this stage of the game, thank > goodness. Since "trans" means across or beyond, it's > likely that I'll only be trans after I die. More's the > pity. On the other hand, being a beyond or across woman > sounds positively goddess-like! Should I be able to > choose, then, I'd want to be a trans. > [BTW, I'm having you on, in case you can't tell.] > > judyhappened2 > > 2008/9/6 amy king >> > > > Tongues Afire: > > Creative Writing Workshop for > > Queer Women, Trans Women and Gender Non Conforming > > People of Color* > > > ***** > > > Workshop Facilitator: R. Erica Doyle > > > WHEN: > > October 9, 2008 - December 11, 2008 > > Thursdays, 6:30 pm - 8:30 pm > > > WHERE: > > Audre Lorde Project 85 South Oxford Street > > Brooklyn, New York 11217** > > > CONTACT: > > 718.813.7240 > > tonguesafire at gmail.com > > > > > > How much: > > -FREE- > > > Application Deadline: > > Tuesday, September 30th, 2008 *** > > > > **************************************************** > > > > These workshops, led by writer-teacher-performer R. > Erica Doyle, > are for writers of all levels, and will incorporate > readings along > with in-class workshop exercises in literary memoir, > poetry, and > short fiction. Participating writers will develop > methods of > constructive critique and strategies for incorporating > writing in > their everyday lives. Information on publication, > funding, and > reading opportunities will be shared. The workshop > will culminate > in a public reading at the Audre Lorde Project. > > > ***************************************************** > > > How to Apply: > > > Apply via email with the following information to > tonguesafire at gmail.com > > > > > > * your contact information, > > * one paragraph that describes who you are and how you > identify as queer woman/gnc person of color (be > creative and > definitive) > > * one - two paragraphs for why you want to be a part of > Tongues Afire, and > > * a writing sample (1-3 pages of poetry, prose, > fiction, or > creative non-fiction) > > > You may send questions to tonguesafire at gmail.com > > > or call 718.813.7240. > > > > Space is limited. > > > Application Deadline: Tuesday, September 30th, 2008 > > > ****************************************************** > > > About the Facilitator: > > R. Erica Doyle is a writer of Trinidadian descent who > lives in New > York City. Her work has appeared in numerous journals and > anthologies, including Best American Poetry, Ploughshares, > Callaloo, Bum Rush the Page, and Ms. Magazine. She has > performed > her work at the Nuyorican Poets Caf?, Kennedy Center, > Public > Theater, St Mark's Poetry Project, Bar 13, Bowery > Poetry Club, and > the Calabash Literary Festival in Jamaica. She has > taught creative > writing workshops at the 14th Street Y, the Brooklyn Public > Library, Union Settlement, Sisterspace and Books, and > in the New > York City public schools. She is the recipient of > awards and > fellowships from the Hurston/Wright and Astraea > Foundations and > the New York Foundation for the Arts. She is a fellow > of Cave > Canem, a workshop and retreat for African-American poets. > > > > *********************************************** > > > More Information: > > * Anyone who identifies as a woman of color is welcome, > including > people of color who self-identify as women, trans, > butch lesbians, > bois, drag queens, bi-gendered, two-spirited, drag > kings, femme > queens, A.G.s, genderqueer, non-gendered, andro, > crossdressers, > gender-benders, gender fluid as well as other identities of > peoples who face gender oppression because of their > non-conventional gender expression. > > > ** Directions: C train to Lafayette Avenue; G train to > Fulton > Street; 2, 3, 4, 5, B, Q, D, M, N, R to Atlantic > Avenue/Pacific > Street) > > > ***All applicants will be notified by Monday, October > 6th. Accepted applicants must confirm their attendance > upon notification. > > > Tongues Afire is made possible by support from the > Audre Lorde > Project. This event is funded in part by Poets and > Writers, Inc. > > > > > _______ > > > Movies With Poems > http://amyking.wordpress.com/2008/08/11/movies-with-poetry/ > > Poems To Do > > http://amyking.wordpress.com/2008/06/12/poetry-exercises-wanted/ > > Amy's Alias > http://amyking.org/ > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > > > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > -- > Tad Richards > http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ > http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ > > The moral is this: in American verse, > The better you are, the pay is worse. > --Corey Ford > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ The moral is this: in American verse, The better you are, the pay is worse. --Corey Ford From Opus40-01 Sat Sep 6 17:25:46 2008 From: Opus40-01 (TheOldMole) Date: Sat, 06 Sep 2008 17:25:46 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Please remove me In-Reply-To: <2d5ffa0b0809061404l26667bccl14508955cdcdfd73@mail.gmail.com> References: <2d5ffa0b0809061404l26667bccl14508955cdcdfd73@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <48C2F55A.50709@opus40.org> Please remove me...let me go...for I don't love you anymore.... Suzanne Baran wrote: > I am no longer interested in receiving emails from this list. Please > remove me at once. > > Thank you kindly! > > -- > "Romance is the douche of the bourgeoisie" > - David Berman, Silver Jews > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ The moral is this: in American verse, The better you are, the pay is worse. --Corey Ford From anny.ballardini Sat Sep 6 18:16:26 2008 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sun, 7 Sep 2008 00:16:26 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Tongues Afire -- Call For Writers In-Reply-To: <48C2F382.2050909@opus40.org> References: <538081.99934.qm@web83309.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <48C2F382.2050909@opus40.org> Message-ID: <4b65c2d70809061516p16bd9d3bke2b7755fd47bd43a@mail.gmail.com> I am very sorry for Hillary. That Putaine / ohhh excuse my French! Anyhow I wanted to direct Judy to a pOm I put on the Corner today by Ed Mycue: http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=2445 but the entire list of poems seems interesting to me: http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=Content&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=302 On Sat, Sep 6, 2008 at 11:17 PM, TheOldMole wrote: > I think Judy's asking for the impossible. No one non-conforms all the time. > The most nonconforming nonconformist eats, sleeps, propels him/herself > either with feet or a vehicle, pays bills of some sort, and has sex using > some variation or another of the same catalog of equipment. > > amy king wrote: > >> Hmm, I think this is a can of worms and a half. Worms with swords. >> Maybe the ideal conforming woman is the notion of a sort of 'modern woman' >> who embraces traditional views of womanhood while giving a pseudo-nod to the >> progress women have made. Society-in-general can only tolerate so much >> outside of our familiar & secure comfort zones. Right now, I'm thinking >> about Sarah Palin. [Turning hand-crank of opener now ...] Off the top of >> my head, she would be symbolic of a conforming woman, esp versus Hillary >> Clinton. Palin embraces, no, touts her 'soccer mom' role while also giving >> nods to 'progress' (she belongs to some right-wing 'feminist' group) for >> women (her nods resemble that of a pit bull gearing up for the lunge, >> seeing's how she's a self professed pit bull with lipstick. oh how we do >> love our aggressive woman images, for fun only though). I mean, she has no >> problem seeking power, but she's careful to do so under the traditional >> rubric of what it means to be a woman. She'll get more covert sexist flak >> than H. Clinton got, for sure. Hillary didn't conform well enough; she >> didn't even bake cookies and was damned to hell and back for it! Just >> google image search her name and see what comes up. At least Palin knows >> what she has to do to make her own kind of selfish progress (i.e. sell out >> more 'progressive' or 'nonconforming' women for the payout). Conform. >> Hillary didn't play those cards right (i.e. she's slightly nonconforming in >> terms of her womanhood-- too many 'male' behaviors like thinking aloud, >> demanding she be taken seriously, didn't play up her nurturing side, etc -- >> yikes!). >> Now I'm sitting in the can, wriggling with the worst, >> >> Amy >> >> _______ >> >> >> Movies With Poems >> http://amyking.wordpress.com/2008/08/11/movies-with-poetry/ >> >> Poems To Do >> http://amyking.wordpress.com/2008/06/12/poetry-exercises-wanted/ >> >> Amy's Alias >> http://amyking.org/ >> >> --- On *Sat, 9/6/08, Judy Prince //* wrote: >> >> From: Judy Prince >> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Tongues Afire -- Call For Writers >> To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &, Views" >> >> Date: Saturday, September 6, 2008, 4:53 PM >> >> Good point, Tad. I just don't know. If you're right, I wonder >> what that translates to in terms of what the nonconforming female >> actually does each day? I'm trying to imagine the ways in which >> conforming females behave and then compare that to what a >> nonconforming female might do. But right now I'd much rather have >> lunch. >> >> Best, >> >> Judy >> >> 2008/9/6 TheOldMole > > >> >> Wouldn't it be more about non-conforming /to/ the stereotypes >> of a given gender? >> >> Judy Prince wrote: >> >> Hi, Amy, >> >> Does one have to be queer, trans, gender non-conforming >> and a person of colour all at the same time in the same >> body? And what is gender non-conforming? My body seems >> unlikely to non-conform at this stage of the game, thank >> goodness. Since "trans" means across or beyond, it's >> likely that I'll only be trans after I die. More's the >> pity. On the other hand, being a beyond or across woman >> sounds positively goddess-like! Should I be able to >> choose, then, I'd want to be a trans. [BTW, I'm >> having you on, in case you can't tell.] >> >> judyhappened2 >> >> 2008/9/6 amy king > > >> >> >> >> Tongues Afire: >> >> Creative Writing Workshop for >> >> Queer Women, Trans Women and Gender Non Conforming >> >> People of Color* >> >> >> ***** >> >> Workshop Facilitator: R. Erica Doyle >> >> WHEN: >> >> October 9, 2008 - December 11, 2008 >> >> Thursdays, 6:30 pm - 8:30 pm >> >> WHERE: >> >> Audre Lorde Project 85 South Oxford Street >> >> Brooklyn, New York 11217** >> >> CONTACT: >> >> 718.813.7240 >> >> tonguesafire at gmail.com >> > > >> >> >> How much: >> >> -FREE- >> >> Application Deadline: >> >> Tuesday, September 30th, 2008 *** >> >> >> **************************************************** >> >> These workshops, led by >> writer-teacher-performer R. >> Erica Doyle, >> are for writers of all levels, and will incorporate >> readings along >> with in-class workshop exercises in literary memoir, >> poetry, and >> short fiction. Participating writers will develop >> methods of >> constructive critique and strategies for incorporating >> writing in >> their everyday lives. Information on publication, >> funding, and >> reading opportunities will be shared. The workshop >> will culminate >> in a public reading at the Audre Lorde Project. >> >> >> ***************************************************** >> >> How to Apply: >> >> Apply via email with the following information >> to >> tonguesafire at gmail.com >> > > >> >> >> * your contact information, >> >> * one paragraph that describes who you are and how you >> identify as queer woman/gnc person of color (be >> creative and >> definitive) >> >> * one - two paragraphs for why you want to be a part of >> Tongues Afire, and >> >> * a writing sample (1-3 pages of poetry, prose, >> fiction, or >> creative non-fiction) >> >> You may send questions to >> tonguesafire at gmail.com >> >> > >> > or call 718.813.7240. >> >> >> Space is limited. >> >> Application Deadline: Tuesday, September 30th, >> 2008 >> >> >> ****************************************************** >> >> About the Facilitator: >> >> R. Erica Doyle is a writer of Trinidadian descent who >> lives in New >> York City. Her work has appeared in numerous journals and >> anthologies, including Best American Poetry, Ploughshares, >> Callaloo, Bum Rush the Page, and Ms. Magazine. She has >> performed >> her work at the Nuyorican Poets Caf?, Kennedy Center, >> Public >> Theater, St Mark's Poetry Project, Bar 13, Bowery >> Poetry Club, and >> the Calabash Literary Festival in Jamaica. She has >> taught creative >> writing workshops at the 14th Street Y, the Brooklyn Public >> Library, Union Settlement, Sisterspace and Books, and >> in the New >> York City public schools. She is the recipient of >> awards and >> fellowships from the Hurston/Wright and Astraea >> Foundations and >> the New York Foundation for the Arts. She is a fellow >> of Cave >> Canem, a workshop and retreat for African-American poets. >> >> >> *********************************************** >> >> More Information: >> >> * Anyone who identifies as a woman of color is welcome, >> including >> people of color who self-identify as women, trans, >> butch lesbians, >> bois, drag queens, bi-gendered, two-spirited, drag >> kings, femme >> queens, A.G.s, genderqueer, non-gendered, andro, >> crossdressers, >> gender-benders, gender fluid as well as other identities of >> peoples who face gender oppression because of their >> non-conventional gender expression. >> >> ** Directions: C train to Lafayette Avenue; G >> train to >> Fulton >> Street; 2, 3, 4, 5, B, Q, D, M, N, R to Atlantic >> Avenue/Pacific >> Street) >> >> ***All applicants will be notified by Monday, >> October >> 6th. Accepted applicants must confirm their attendance >> upon notification. >> >> Tongues Afire is made possible by support from >> the >> Audre Lorde >> Project. This event is funded in part by Poets and >> Writers, Inc. >> >> >> >> _______ >> >> >> Movies With Poems >> http://amyking.wordpress.com/2008/08/11/movies-with-poetry/ >> >> Poems To Do >> >> http://amyking.wordpress.com/2008/06/12/poetry-exercises-wanted/ >> >> Amy's Alias >> http://amyking.org/ >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> >> > > >> >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> >> -- Tad Richards >> http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ >> http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ >> >> The moral is this: in American verse, >> The better you are, the pay is worse. >> --Corey Ford >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > > -- > Tad Richards > http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ > http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ > > The moral is this: in American verse, > The better you are, the pay is worse. > --Corey Ford > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Opus40-01 Sat Sep 6 18:59:36 2008 From: Opus40-01 (TheOldMole) Date: Sat, 06 Sep 2008 18:59:36 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Tongues Afire -- Call For Writers In-Reply-To: <4b65c2d70809061516p16bd9d3bke2b7755fd47bd43a@mail.gmail.com> References: <538081.99934.qm@web83309.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <48C2F382.2050909@opus40.org> <4b65c2d70809061516p16bd9d3bke2b7755fd47bd43a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <48C30B58.7080401@opus40.org> Good one. Anny Ballardini wrote: > I am very sorry for Hillary. That Putaine / ohhh excuse my French! > > Anyhow I wanted to direct Judy to a pOm I put on the Corner today by > Ed Mycue: > http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=2445 > > > but the entire list of poems seems interesting to me: > http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=Content&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=302 > > > > > On Sat, Sep 6, 2008 at 11:17 PM, TheOldMole > wrote: > > I think Judy's asking for the impossible. No one non-conforms all > the time. The most nonconforming nonconformist eats, sleeps, > propels him/herself either with feet or a vehicle, pays bills of > some sort, and has sex using some variation or another of the same > catalog of equipment. > > amy king wrote: > > Hmm, I think this is a can of worms and a half. Worms with > swords. > Maybe the ideal conforming woman is the notion of a sort of > 'modern woman' who embraces traditional views of womanhood > while giving a pseudo-nod to the progress women have made. > Society-in-general can only tolerate so much outside of our > familiar & secure comfort zones. Right now, I'm thinking > about Sarah Palin. [Turning hand-crank of opener now ...] > Off the top of my head, she would be symbolic of a conforming > woman, esp versus Hillary Clinton. Palin embraces, no, touts > her 'soccer mom' role while also giving nods to 'progress' > (she belongs to some right-wing 'feminist' group) for women > (her nods resemble that of a pit bull gearing up for the > lunge, seeing's how she's a self professed pit bull with > lipstick. oh how we do love our aggressive woman images, for > fun only though). I mean, she has no problem seeking power, > but she's careful to do so under the traditional rubric of > what it means to be a woman. She'll get more covert sexist > flak than H. Clinton got, for sure. Hillary didn't conform > well enough; she didn't even bake cookies and was damned to > hell and back for it! Just google image search her name and > see what comes up. At least Palin knows what she has to do to > make her own kind of selfish progress (i.e. sell out more > 'progressive' or 'nonconforming' women for the payout). > Conform. Hillary didn't play those cards right (i.e. she's > slightly nonconforming in terms of her womanhood-- too many > 'male' behaviors like thinking aloud, demanding she be taken > seriously, didn't play up her nurturing side, etc -- yikes!). > Now I'm sitting in the can, wriggling with the worst, > > Amy > > _______ > > > Movies With Poems > http://amyking.wordpress.com/2008/08/11/movies-with-poetry/ > > Poems To Do > http://amyking.wordpress.com/2008/06/12/poetry-exercises-wanted/ > > Amy's Alias > http://amyking.org/ > > --- On *Sat, 9/6/08, Judy Prince > / >/* wrote: > > From: Judy Prince > > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Tongues Afire -- Call For Writers > To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &, Views" > > > Date: Saturday, September 6, 2008, 4:53 PM > > Good point, Tad. I just don't know. If you're right, I wonder > what that translates to in terms of what the nonconforming > female > actually does each day? I'm trying to imagine the ways in > which > conforming females behave and then compare that to what a > nonconforming female might do. But right now I'd much > rather have > lunch. > > Best, > > Judy > > 2008/9/6 TheOldMole > >> > > > Wouldn't it be more about non-conforming /to/ the > stereotypes > of a given gender? > > Judy Prince wrote: > > Hi, Amy, > > Does one have to be queer, trans, gender non-conforming > and a person of colour all at the same time in the same > body? And what is gender non-conforming? My body > seems > unlikely to non-conform at this stage of the game, > thank > goodness. Since "trans" means across or beyond, it's > likely that I'll only be trans after I die. More's the > pity. On the other hand, being a beyond or across > woman > sounds positively goddess-like! Should I be able to > choose, then, I'd want to be a trans. > [BTW, I'm having you on, in case you can't tell.] > > judyhappened2 > > 2008/9/6 amy king > > > > >>> > > > Tongues Afire: > > Creative Writing Workshop for > > Queer Women, Trans Women and Gender Non Conforming > > People of Color* > > > ***** > > Workshop Facilitator: R. Erica Doyle > > WHEN: > > October 9, 2008 - December 11, 2008 > > Thursdays, 6:30 pm - 8:30 pm > > WHERE: > > Audre Lorde Project 85 South Oxford Street > > Brooklyn, New York 11217** > > CONTACT: > > 718.813.7240 > > tonguesafire at gmail.com > > > > > >> > > > How much: > > -FREE- > > Application Deadline: > > Tuesday, September 30th, 2008 *** > > > **************************************************** > > These workshops, led > by writer-teacher-performer R. > Erica Doyle, > are for writers of all levels, and will incorporate > readings along > with in-class workshop exercises in literary memoir, > poetry, and > short fiction. Participating writers will develop > methods of > constructive critique and strategies for > incorporating > writing in > their everyday lives. Information on publication, > funding, and > reading opportunities will be shared. The workshop > will culminate > in a public reading at the Audre Lorde Project. > > > ***************************************************** > > How to Apply: > > Apply via email with the following > information to > tonguesafire at gmail.com > > > > > >> > > > * your contact information, > > * one paragraph that describes who you are > and how you > identify as queer woman/gnc person of color (be > creative and > definitive) > > * one - two paragraphs for why you want to > be a part of > Tongues Afire, and > > * a writing sample (1-3 pages of poetry, prose, > fiction, or > creative non-fiction) > > You may send questions to > tonguesafire at gmail.com > > > > > >> or call 718.813.7240. > > > Space is limited. > > Application Deadline: Tuesday, > September 30th, 2008 > > > ****************************************************** > > About the Facilitator: > > R. Erica Doyle is a writer of Trinidadian > descent who > lives in New > York City. Her work has appeared in numerous > journals and > anthologies, including Best American Poetry, > Ploughshares, > Callaloo, Bum Rush the Page, and Ms. Magazine. > She has > performed > her work at the Nuyorican Poets Caf?, Kennedy > Center, > Public > Theater, St Mark's Poetry Project, Bar 13, Bowery > Poetry Club, and > the Calabash Literary Festival in Jamaica. She has > taught creative > writing workshops at the 14th Street Y, the > Brooklyn Public > Library, Union Settlement, Sisterspace and > Books, and > in the New > York City public schools. She is the recipient of > awards and > fellowships from the Hurston/Wright and Astraea > Foundations and > the New York Foundation for the Arts. She is a > fellow > of Cave > Canem, a workshop and retreat for > African-American poets. > > > *********************************************** > > More Information: > > * Anyone who identifies as a woman of color is > welcome, > including > people of color who self-identify as women, trans, > butch lesbians, > bois, drag queens, bi-gendered, two-spirited, drag > kings, femme > queens, A.G.s, genderqueer, non-gendered, andro, > crossdressers, > gender-benders, gender fluid as well as other > identities of > peoples who face gender oppression because of their > non-conventional gender expression. > > ** Directions: C train to > Lafayette Avenue; G train to > Fulton > Street; 2, 3, 4, 5, B, Q, D, M, N, R to Atlantic > Avenue/Pacific > Street) > > ***All applicants will be notified > by Monday, October > 6th. Accepted applicants must confirm their > attendance > upon notification. > > Tongues Afire is made possible by > support from the > Audre Lorde > Project. This event is funded in part by Poets and > Writers, Inc. > > > > _______ > > > Movies With Poems > > http://amyking.wordpress.com/2008/08/11/movies-with-poetry/ > > Poems To Do > > http://amyking.wordpress.com/2008/06/12/poetry-exercises-wanted/ > > Amy's Alias > http://amyking.org/ > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > > > > >> > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > -- Tad Richards > http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ > http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ > > The moral is this: in American verse, > The better you are, the pay is worse. > --Corey Ford > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > -- > Tad Richards > http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ > http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ > > The moral is this: in American verse, > The better you are, the pay is worse. > --Corey Ford > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > -- > Anny Ballardini > http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ > http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome > http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html > I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a > dancing star! > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ The moral is this: in American verse, The better you are, the pay is worse. --Corey Ford From jbalizsprince Sat Sep 6 20:20:35 2008 From: jbalizsprince (Judy Prince) Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2008 20:20:35 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Please remove me In-Reply-To: <48C2F55A.50709@opus40.org> References: <2d5ffa0b0809061404l26667bccl14508955cdcdfd73@mail.gmail.com> <48C2F55A.50709@opus40.org> Message-ID: <7db1d01b0809061720v3b3b1c94g20c198cfadddcf2a@mail.gmail.com> Me toe-tappin', Ol' Mole..... 2008/9/6 TheOldMole > Please remove me...let me go...for I don't love you anymore.... > > Suzanne Baran wrote: > >> I am no longer interested in receiving emails from this list. Please >> remove me at once. >> >> Thank you kindly! >> >> -- >> "Romance is the douche of the bourgeoisie" >> - David Berman, Silver Jews >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > > -- > Tad Richards > http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ > http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ > > The moral is this: in American verse, > The better you are, the pay is worse. > --Corey Ford > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jbalizsprince Sat Sep 6 21:27:01 2008 From: jbalizsprince (Judy Prince) Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2008 21:27:01 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Tongues Afire -- Call For Writers In-Reply-To: <538081.99934.qm@web83309.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: <7db1d01b0809061353r2f77b64ubd331f62b88c6324@mail.gmail.com> <538081.99934.qm@web83309.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <7db1d01b0809061827u64095b69ge8a3fd7987c63cc7@mail.gmail.com> Indeed, Amy. We can't help but compare Clinton and Palin, can we? I especially liked your "At least Palin knows what she has to do to make her own kind of selfish progress." The answer: Conform. My own preference is for neither Clinton nor Palin, but for Barack Obama. [I've always valued men who choose The Right Woman (for them) to marry, and he is surely one of those men.] Obama also finds it not impossible to think---and to allow assembled wisdoms to help him move forward. That takes an immensely un-ego'ed person. One can scarcely imagine someone running for the highest elected office in the most powerful nation in the world who is NOT ego-puffed....but Obama's recent words may've nailed a certain truth. He said to his audience-followers that he felt some folks misunderstood his run for the presidency: "It's not about me, it's about you." Let me sew this together now. It has lately seemed to me that the nature of partnerships, of two people----the least unit of interaction----is key to understanding outcomes. Take one such partnering pattern and push it to its effect: if a partner is allowed to do what (s)he will, both partners suffer frightfully. Those "equals" within the partners' circle will often suffer, as well. Most tragic is the devastation done to those who have low positions in that circle or who do not understand the partnership's dangerous lopsidedness. Thus, a Sarah Palin can ruin an entire family---her own---as well as a potential world of those caught in her thrall. Sarah Palin and John McCain have been allowed by a lifetime of partners to avenge themselves on those they feel have authority over them. They're appealing to many of us because they embody what we ourselves often desperately want: "righteous" power. I wonder how this partnership of two such un-matured people will play itself out. Typically, a high-maintenance, "spoiled" partner will find her or himself a low-maintenance, "selfless" partner. But John and Sarah are themselves partnered together now. That new partnership will yield a series of frightening moves to "out-power" one another. Given the considerable latitude folks have tended to give these self-oriented two, it might not be the happiest or most productive of relationships, to say the least. At this particular historical juncture, most Americans understand what constitutes a "balanced" individual, and what does not. We will elect Barack Obama as our next President because we have grown up, looked at ourselves and those around us, and made life the worthy challenge for love, beauty, joy and patience that it is. Best, Judy 2008/9/6 amy king > Hmm, I think this is a can of worms and a half. Worms with swords. > > Maybe the ideal conforming woman is the notion of a sort of 'modern woman' > who embraces traditional views of womanhood while giving a pseudo-nod to the > progress women have made. Society-in-general can only tolerate so much > outside of our familiar & secure comfort zones. Right now, I'm thinking > about Sarah Palin. [Turning hand-crank of opener now ...] Off the top of > my head, she would be symbolic of a conforming woman, esp versus Hillary > Clinton. Palin embraces, no, touts her 'soccer mom' role while also giving > nods to 'progress' (she belongs to some right-wing 'feminist' group) for > women (her nods resemble that of a pit bull gearing up for the lunge, > seeing's how she's a self professed pit bull with lipstick. oh how we do > love our aggressive woman images, for fun only though). I mean, she has no > problem seeking power, but she's careful to do so under the traditional > rubric of what it means to be a woman. She'll get more covert sexist flak > than H. Clinton got, for sure. Hillary didn't conform well enough; she > didn't even bake cookies and was damned to hell and back for it! Just > google image search her name and see what comes up. At least Palin knows > what she has to do to make her own kind of selfish progress (i.e. sell out > more 'progressive' or 'nonconforming' women for the payout). Conform. > Hillary didn't play those cards right (i.e. she's slightly nonconforming in > terms of her womanhood-- too many 'male' behaviors like thinking aloud, > demanding she be taken seriously, didn't play up her nurturing side, etc -- > yikes!). > > Now I'm sitting in the can, wriggling with the worst, > > Amy > > _______ > > > Movies With Poems > http://amyking.wordpress.com/2008/08/11/movies-with-poetry/ > > Poems To Do > http://amyking.wordpress.com/2008/06/12/poetry-exercises-wanted/ > > Amy's Alias > http://amyking.org/ > > --- On *Sat, 9/6/08, Judy Prince * wrote: > > From: Judy Prince > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Tongues Afire -- Call For Writers > To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &, Views" < > new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu> > Date: Saturday, September 6, 2008, 4:53 PM > > > Good point, Tad. I just don't know. If you're right, I wonder what that > translates to in terms of what the nonconforming female actually does each > day? I'm trying to imagine the ways in which conforming females behave and > then compare that to what a nonconforming female might do. But right now > I'd much rather have lunch. > Best, > > Judy > > 2008/9/6 TheOldMole > >> Wouldn't it be more about non-conforming /to/ the stereotypes of a given >> gender? >> >> Judy Prince wrote: >> >>> Hi, Amy, >>> >>> Does one have to be queer, trans, gender non-conforming and a person of >>> colour all at the same time in the same body? And what is gender >>> non-conforming? My body seems unlikely to non-conform at this stage of the >>> game, thank goodness. Since "trans" means across or beyond, it's likely >>> that I'll only be trans after I die. More's the pity. On the other hand, >>> being a beyond or across woman sounds positively goddess-like! Should I be >>> able to choose, then, I'd want to be a trans. >>> [BTW, I'm having you on, in case you can't tell.] >>> >>> judyhappened2 >>> >>> 2008/9/6 amy king > >>> >>> Tongues Afire: >>> >>> Creative Writing Workshop for >>> >>> Queer Women, Trans Women and Gender Non Conforming >>> >>> People of Color* >>> >>> >>> ***** >>> >>> >>> Workshop Facilitator: R. Erica Doyle >>> >>> >>> WHEN: >>> >>> October 9, 2008 - December 11, 2008 >>> >>> Thursdays, 6:30 pm - 8:30 pm >>> >>> >>> WHERE: >>> >>> Audre Lorde Project 85 South Oxford Street >>> >>> Brooklyn, New York 11217** >>> >>> >>> CONTACT: >>> >>> 718.813.7240 >>> >>> tonguesafire at gmail.com >>> >>> >>> How much: >>> >>> -FREE- >>> >>> >>> Application Deadline: >>> >>> Tuesday, September 30th, 2008 *** >>> >>> >>> >>> **************************************************** >>> >>> >>> >>> These workshops, led by writer-teacher-performer R. Erica Doyle, >>> are for writers of all levels, and will incorporate readings along >>> with in-class workshop exercises in literary memoir, poetry, and >>> short fiction. Participating writers will develop methods of >>> constructive critique and strategies for incorporating writing in >>> their everyday lives. Information on publication, funding, and >>> reading opportunities will be shared. The workshop will culminate >>> in a public reading at the Audre Lorde Project. >>> >>> >>> ***************************************************** >>> >>> >>> How to Apply: >>> >>> >>> Apply via email with the following information to >>> tonguesafire at gmail.com >>> >>> >>> * your contact information, >>> >>> * one paragraph that describes who you are and how you >>> identify as queer woman/gnc person of color (be creative and >>> definitive) >>> >>> * one - two paragraphs for why you want to be a part of >>> Tongues Afire, and >>> >>> * a writing sample (1-3 pages of poetry, prose, fiction, or >>> creative non-fiction) >>> >>> >>> You may send questions to tonguesafire at gmail.com >>> or call 718.813.7240. >>> >>> >>> >>> Space is limited. >>> >>> >>> Application Deadline: Tuesday, September 30th, 2008 >>> >>> >>> ****************************************************** >>> >>> >>> About the Facilitator: >>> >>> R. Erica Doyle is a writer of Trinidadian descent who lives in New >>> York City. Her work has appeared in numerous journals and >>> anthologies, including Best American Poetry, Ploughshares, >>> Callaloo, Bum Rush the Page, and Ms. Magazine. She has performed >>> her work at the Nuyorican Poets Caf?, Kennedy Center, Public >>> Theater, St Mark's Poetry Project, Bar 13, Bowery Poetry Club, and >>> the Calabash Literary Festival in Jamaica. She has taught creative >>> writing workshops at the 14th Street Y, the Brooklyn Public >>> Library, Union Settlement, Sisterspace and Books, and in the New >>> York City public schools. She is the recipient of awards and >>> fellowships from the Hurston/Wright and Astraea Foundations and >>> the New York Foundation for the Arts. She is a fellow of Cave >>> Canem, a workshop and retreat for African-American poets. >>> >>> >>> >>> *********************************************** >>> >>> >>> More Information: >>> >>> * Anyone who identifies as a woman of color is welcome, including >>> people of color who self-identify as women, trans, butch lesbians, >>> bois, drag queens, bi-gendered, two-spirited, drag kings, femme >>> queens, A.G.s, genderqueer, non-gendered, andro, crossdressers, >>> gender-benders, gender fluid as well as other identities of >>> peoples who face gender oppression because of their >>> non-conventional gender expression. >>> >>> >>> ** Directions: C train to Lafayette Avenue; G train to Fulton >>> Street; 2, 3, 4, 5, B, Q, D, M, N, R to Atlantic Avenue/Pacific >>> Street) >>> >>> >>> ***All applicants will be notified by Monday, October 6th. Accepted >>> applicants must confirm their attendance upon notification. >>> >>> >>> Tongues Afire is made possible by support from the Audre Lorde >>> Project. This event is funded in part by Poets and Writers, Inc. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______ >>> >>> >>> Movies With Poems >>> http://amyking.wordpress.com/2008/08/11/movies-with-poetry/ >>> >>> Poems To Do >>> http://amyking.wordpress.com/2008/06/12/poetry-exercises-wanted/ >>> >>> Amy's Alias >>> http://amyking.org/ >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> New-Poetry mailing list >>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>> >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> New-Poetry mailing list >>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>> >> >> -- >> Tad Richards >> http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ >> http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ >> >> The moral is this: in American verse, >> The better you are, the pay is worse. >> --Corey Ford >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jbalizsprince Sat Sep 6 22:04:54 2008 From: jbalizsprince (Judy Prince) Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2008 22:04:54 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Tongues Afire -- Call For Writers In-Reply-To: <4b65c2d70809061516p16bd9d3bke2b7755fd47bd43a@mail.gmail.com> References: <538081.99934.qm@web83309.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <48C2F382.2050909@opus40.org> <4b65c2d70809061516p16bd9d3bke2b7755fd47bd43a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7db1d01b0809061904o69d50066rd7b9b9fa6cf7c32c@mail.gmail.com> Hi, Anny, Thanks! I may be slow, so will give m'sel' time to understand Ed Mycue's poem(s). Between readings, I somehow ended up enthusiastic about Tyehimba Jess's poetry. Here's a poem of his, and it will lead to links within for more information about the poet as well as more of his poems: http://voices.e-poets.net/JessT/home.html Best, Judy 2008/9/6 Anny Ballardini > I am very sorry for Hillary. That Putaine / ohhh excuse my French! > > Anyhow I wanted to direct Judy to a pOm I put on the Corner today by Ed > Mycue: > http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=2445 > > but the entire list of poems seems interesting to me: > > http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=Content&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=302 > > > > > On Sat, Sep 6, 2008 at 11:17 PM, TheOldMole wrote: > >> I think Judy's asking for the impossible. No one non-conforms all the >> time. The most nonconforming nonconformist eats, sleeps, propels him/herself >> either with feet or a vehicle, pays bills of some sort, and has sex using >> some variation or another of the same catalog of equipment. >> >> amy king wrote: >> >>> Hmm, I think this is a can of worms and a half. Worms with swords. >>> Maybe the ideal conforming woman is the notion of a sort of 'modern >>> woman' who embraces traditional views of womanhood while giving a pseudo-nod >>> to the progress women have made. Society-in-general can only tolerate so >>> much outside of our familiar & secure comfort zones. Right now, I'm >>> thinking about Sarah Palin. [Turning hand-crank of opener now ...] Off >>> the top of my head, she would be symbolic of a conforming woman, esp versus >>> Hillary Clinton. Palin embraces, no, touts her 'soccer mom' role while also >>> giving nods to 'progress' (she belongs to some right-wing 'feminist' group) >>> for women (her nods resemble that of a pit bull gearing up for the lunge, >>> seeing's how she's a self professed pit bull with lipstick. oh how we do >>> love our aggressive woman images, for fun only though). I mean, she has no >>> problem seeking power, but she's careful to do so under the traditional >>> rubric of what it means to be a woman. She'll get more covert sexist flak >>> than H. Clinton got, for sure. Hillary didn't conform well enough; she >>> didn't even bake cookies and was damned to hell and back for it! Just >>> google image search her name and see what comes up. At least Palin knows >>> what she has to do to make her own kind of selfish progress (i.e. sell out >>> more 'progressive' or 'nonconforming' women for the payout). Conform. >>> Hillary didn't play those cards right (i.e. she's slightly nonconforming in >>> terms of her womanhood-- too many 'male' behaviors like thinking aloud, >>> demanding she be taken seriously, didn't play up her nurturing side, etc -- >>> yikes!). >>> Now I'm sitting in the can, wriggling with the worst, >>> >>> Amy >>> >>> _______ >>> >>> >>> Movies With Poems >>> http://amyking.wordpress.com/2008/08/11/movies-with-poetry/ >>> >>> Poems To Do >>> http://amyking.wordpress.com/2008/06/12/poetry-exercises-wanted/ >>> >>> Amy's Alias >>> http://amyking.org/ >>> >>> --- On *Sat, 9/6/08, Judy Prince //* >>> wrote: >>> >>> From: Judy Prince >>> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Tongues Afire -- Call For Writers >>> To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &, Views" >>> >>> Date: Saturday, September 6, 2008, 4:53 PM >>> >>> Good point, Tad. I just don't know. If you're right, I wonder >>> what that translates to in terms of what the nonconforming female >>> actually does each day? I'm trying to imagine the ways in which >>> conforming females behave and then compare that to what a >>> nonconforming female might do. But right now I'd much rather have >>> lunch. >>> >>> Best, >>> >>> Judy >>> >>> 2008/9/6 TheOldMole >> > >>> >>> Wouldn't it be more about non-conforming /to/ the stereotypes >>> of a given gender? >>> >>> Judy Prince wrote: >>> >>> Hi, Amy, >>> >>> Does one have to be queer, trans, gender non-conforming >>> and a person of colour all at the same time in the same >>> body? And what is gender non-conforming? My body seems >>> unlikely to non-conform at this stage of the game, thank >>> goodness. Since "trans" means across or beyond, it's >>> likely that I'll only be trans after I die. More's the >>> pity. On the other hand, being a beyond or across woman >>> sounds positively goddess-like! Should I be able to >>> choose, then, I'd want to be a trans. [BTW, I'm >>> having you on, in case you can't tell.] >>> >>> judyhappened2 >>> >>> 2008/9/6 amy king >> >> >> >>> >>> >>> Tongues Afire: >>> >>> Creative Writing Workshop for >>> >>> Queer Women, Trans Women and Gender Non Conforming >>> >>> People of Color* >>> >>> >>> ***** >>> >>> Workshop Facilitator: R. Erica Doyle >>> >>> WHEN: >>> >>> October 9, 2008 - December 11, 2008 >>> >>> Thursdays, 6:30 pm - 8:30 pm >>> >>> WHERE: >>> >>> Audre Lorde Project 85 South Oxford Street >>> >>> Brooklyn, New York 11217** >>> >>> CONTACT: >>> >>> 718.813.7240 >>> >>> tonguesafire at gmail.com >>> >> > >>> >>> >>> How much: >>> >>> -FREE- >>> >>> Application Deadline: >>> >>> Tuesday, September 30th, 2008 *** >>> >>> >>> **************************************************** >>> >>> These workshops, led by >>> writer-teacher-performer R. >>> Erica Doyle, >>> are for writers of all levels, and will incorporate >>> readings along >>> with in-class workshop exercises in literary memoir, >>> poetry, and >>> short fiction. Participating writers will develop >>> methods of >>> constructive critique and strategies for incorporating >>> writing in >>> their everyday lives. Information on publication, >>> funding, and >>> reading opportunities will be shared. The workshop >>> will culminate >>> in a public reading at the Audre Lorde Project. >>> >>> >>> ***************************************************** >>> >>> How to Apply: >>> >>> Apply via email with the following >>> information to >>> tonguesafire at gmail.com >>> >> > >>> >>> >>> * your contact information, >>> >>> * one paragraph that describes who you are and how you >>> identify as queer woman/gnc person of color (be >>> creative and >>> definitive) >>> >>> * one - two paragraphs for why you want to be a part of >>> Tongues Afire, and >>> >>> * a writing sample (1-3 pages of poetry, prose, >>> fiction, or >>> creative non-fiction) >>> >>> You may send questions to >>> tonguesafire at gmail.com >>> >>> >> >>> > or call 718.813.7240. >>> >>> >>> Space is limited. >>> >>> Application Deadline: Tuesday, September >>> 30th, 2008 >>> >>> >>> ****************************************************** >>> >>> About the Facilitator: >>> >>> R. Erica Doyle is a writer of Trinidadian descent who >>> lives in New >>> York City. Her work has appeared in numerous journals and >>> anthologies, including Best American Poetry, Ploughshares, >>> Callaloo, Bum Rush the Page, and Ms. Magazine. She has >>> performed >>> her work at the Nuyorican Poets Caf?, Kennedy Center, >>> Public >>> Theater, St Mark's Poetry Project, Bar 13, Bowery >>> Poetry Club, and >>> the Calabash Literary Festival in Jamaica. She has >>> taught creative >>> writing workshops at the 14th Street Y, the Brooklyn Public >>> Library, Union Settlement, Sisterspace and Books, and >>> in the New >>> York City public schools. She is the recipient of >>> awards and >>> fellowships from the Hurston/Wright and Astraea >>> Foundations and >>> the New York Foundation for the Arts. She is a fellow >>> of Cave >>> Canem, a workshop and retreat for African-American poets. >>> >>> >>> *********************************************** >>> >>> More Information: >>> >>> * Anyone who identifies as a woman of color is welcome, >>> including >>> people of color who self-identify as women, trans, >>> butch lesbians, >>> bois, drag queens, bi-gendered, two-spirited, drag >>> kings, femme >>> queens, A.G.s, genderqueer, non-gendered, andro, >>> crossdressers, >>> gender-benders, gender fluid as well as other identities of >>> peoples who face gender oppression because of their >>> non-conventional gender expression. >>> >>> ** Directions: C train to Lafayette Avenue; G >>> train to >>> Fulton >>> Street; 2, 3, 4, 5, B, Q, D, M, N, R to Atlantic >>> Avenue/Pacific >>> Street) >>> >>> ***All applicants will be notified by Monday, >>> October >>> 6th. Accepted applicants must confirm their attendance >>> upon notification. >>> >>> Tongues Afire is made possible by support >>> from the >>> Audre Lorde >>> Project. This event is funded in part by Poets and >>> Writers, Inc. >>> >>> >>> >>> _______ >>> >>> >>> Movies With Poems >>> >>> http://amyking.wordpress.com/2008/08/11/movies-with-poetry/ >>> >>> Poems To Do >>> >>> http://amyking.wordpress.com/2008/06/12/poetry-exercises-wanted/ >>> >>> Amy's Alias >>> http://amyking.org/ >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> New-Poetry mailing list >>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>> >>> >> > >>> >>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> New-Poetry mailing list >>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> > >>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>> >>> >>> -- Tad Richards >>> http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ >>> http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ >>> >>> The moral is this: in American verse, >>> The better you are, the pay is worse. >>> --Corey Ford >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> New-Poetry mailing list >>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> New-Poetry mailing list >>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> New-Poetry mailing list >>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>> >>> >> >> -- >> Tad Richards >> http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ >> http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ >> >> The moral is this: in American verse, >> The better you are, the pay is worse. >> --Corey Ford >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> > > > > -- > Anny Ballardini > http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ > http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome > http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html > I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing > star! > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini Sun Sep 7 03:05:23 2008 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sun, 7 Sep 2008 09:05:23 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Please remove me In-Reply-To: <7db1d01b0809061720v3b3b1c94g20c198cfadddcf2a@mail.gmail.com> References: <2d5ffa0b0809061404l26667bccl14508955cdcdfd73@mail.gmail.com> <48C2F55A.50709@opus40.org> <7db1d01b0809061720v3b3b1c94g20c198cfadddcf2a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4b65c2d70809070005p660e3ff5s979b6295b84d099b@mail.gmail.com> Suzanne, at the end of each message there is a link (New Poetry Mailing List), click on it, you will be directed to Unsubscribe. Take care, Anny On Sun, Sep 7, 2008 at 2:20 AM, Judy Prince wrote: > Me toe-tappin', Ol' Mole..... > > 2008/9/6 TheOldMole > > Please remove me...let me go...for I don't love you anymore.... >> >> Suzanne Baran wrote: >> >>> I am no longer interested in receiving emails from this list. Please >>> remove me at once. >>> >>> Thank you kindly! >>> >>> -- >>> "Romance is the douche of the bourgeoisie" >>> - David Berman, Silver Jews >>> >>> >>> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini Sun Sep 7 06:17:24 2008 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sun, 7 Sep 2008 12:17:24 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] from the Writer's Almanac Message-ID: <4b65c2d70809070317v368522efyca202b38c9a11dfe@mail.gmail.com> Parting by Emily Dickinson My life closed twice before its close; It yet remains to see If immortality unveil A third event to me So huge, so hopeless to conceive As these that twice befell. Parting is all we know of heaven, And all we need of hell. "Parting," by Emily Dickinson. Public domain. -- -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames Sun Sep 7 11:19:15 2008 From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Sun, 7 Sep 2008 11:19:15 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] notebooks, humble and not so humble Message-ID: _http://deeplinking.net/notebook-reviews/_ (http://deeplinking.net/notebook-reviews/) **************Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. (http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From skip Sun Sep 7 15:59:20 2008 From: skip (Skip Fox) Date: Sun, 7 Sep 2008 14:59:20 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] And gladly wolde they lerne and gladly . . . In-Reply-To: <787583.10266.qm@web83309.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Do most of us teach for a living? (I do.) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From skip Sun Sep 7 16:03:12 2008 From: skip (Skip Fox) Date: Sun, 7 Sep 2008 15:03:12 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] And gladly wolde they lerne and gladly . . . In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I realize the more interesting question might be: Who on the list doesn't teach and what do you do? (I can read but not post from home or I'd wait to ask this.) -----Original Message----- From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Skip Fox Sent: Sunday, September 07, 2008 2:59 PM To: amyhappens at yahoo.com; 'NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views' Subject: [New-Poetry] And gladly wolde they lerne and gladly . . . Do most of us teach for a living? (I do.) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cervantes.james Sun Sep 7 16:14:04 2008 From: cervantes.james (James Cervantes) Date: Sun, 7 Sep 2008 15:14:04 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] And gladly wolde they lerne and gladly . . . In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <648208b60809071314p2ae380a7ica91f5feec85eb43@mail.gmail.com> Retired from teaching just about two years ago. I walk, garden, write, and spend half the year in Mexico, where I walk, garden, write, and make nichos. - Jim On Sun, Sep 7, 2008 at 3:03 PM, Skip Fox wrote: > I realize the more interesting question might be: Who on the list doesn't > teach and what do you do? (I can read but not post from home or I'd wait to > ask this.) > > > > -----Original Message----- > *From:* new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto: > new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] *On Behalf Of *Skip Fox > *Sent:* Sunday, September 07, 2008 2:59 PM > *To:* amyhappens at yahoo.com; 'NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News > &Views' > *Subject:* [New-Poetry] And gladly wolde they lerne and gladly . . . > > > > Do most of us teach for a living? (I do.) > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From berniegeyer Sun Sep 7 17:44:15 2008 From: berniegeyer (Bernadette Geyer) Date: Sun, 7 Sep 2008 14:44:15 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] And gladly wolde they lerne and gladly . . . In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <220018.25197.qm@web50404.mail.re2.yahoo.com> I'm a freelance writer and work-from-home mother of a toddler. When she starts school I'll try to pick up some more freelance editing/proofreading work. I teach workshops as a visiting poet in public elementary schools each spring, but I don't consider myself making a living off it. ? --Bernadette ? http://bernadettegeyer.homestead.com --- On Sun, 9/7/08, Skip Fox wrote: From: Skip Fox Subject: RE: [New-Poetry] And gladly wolde they lerne and gladly . . . To: "'NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views'" Date: Sunday, September 7, 2008, 4:03 PM I realize the more interesting question might be: Who on the list doesn?t teach and what do you do? (I can read but not post from home or I?d wait to ask this.) ? -----Original Message----- From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Skip Fox Sent: Sunday, September 07, 2008 2:59 PM To: amyhappens at yahoo.com; 'NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views' Subject: [New-Poetry] And gladly wolde they lerne and gladly . . . ? Do most of us teach for a living? (I do.)_______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jbalizsprince Sun Sep 7 19:10:38 2008 From: jbalizsprince (Judy Prince) Date: Sun, 7 Sep 2008 19:10:38 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] And gladly wolde they lerne and gladly . . . In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7db1d01b0809071610m1f86beackaf8e84e4f28843ab@mail.gmail.com> Deliriously happy playwright, poet, journalist, artist, union-activist, I taught English for 32 years to support my post-teaching delights. I'm also a fortunate, joyous ma, ma-in-law and gramma of kindergarten twin boys. It doesn't get any better than this! Best, and thanks for the Important Question, Skip! Am enjoying the responses so far, hope for more. Judy (Prince) 2008/9/7 Skip Fox > I realize the more interesting question might be: Who on the list doesn't > teach and what do you do? (I can read but not post from home or I'd wait to > ask this.) > > > > -----Original Message----- > *From:* new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto: > new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] *On Behalf Of *Skip Fox > *Sent:* Sunday, September 07, 2008 2:59 PM > *To:* amyhappens at yahoo.com; 'NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News > &Views' > *Subject:* [New-Poetry] And gladly wolde they lerne and gladly . . . > > > > Do most of us teach for a living? (I do.) > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From amyhappens Sun Sep 7 19:39:54 2008 From: amyhappens (amy king) Date: Sun, 7 Sep 2008 16:39:54 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] And gladly wolde they lerne and gladly . . . In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <839486.3165.qm@web83310.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> ?I teach, yep, but I also sell books on Amazon from time to time when I need more cash ... I could see how some people, if they had the time to keep inventory, mail stuff, and search for discounted bargains in bookstores (for starters), could make a living selling goods online, if they didn't have another job or were working part time.? Might even be fun going through the local flea markets, book stores, estates sales, etc.? Wait, I do that already ... Amy _______ Movies With Poems http://amyking.wordpress.com/2008/08/11/movies-with-poetry/ Poems To Do http://amyking.wordpress.com/2008/06/12/poetry-exercises-wanted/ Amy's Alias http://amyking.org/ --- On Sun, 9/7/08, Skip Fox wrote: From: Skip Fox Subject: RE: [New-Poetry] And gladly wolde they lerne and gladly . . . To: "'NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views'" Date: Sunday, September 7, 2008, 4:03 PM I realize the more interesting question might be: Who on the list doesn?t teach and what do you do? (I can read but not post from home or I?d wait to ask this.) ? -----Original Message----- From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Skip Fox Sent: Sunday, September 07, 2008 2:59 PM To: amyhappens at yahoo.com; 'NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views' Subject: [New-Poetry] And gladly wolde they lerne and gladly . . . ? Do most of us teach for a living? (I do.) _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From asurkont Sun Sep 7 20:32:12 2008 From: asurkont (Amanda Surkont) Date: Sun, 07 Sep 2008 20:32:12 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] And gladly wolde they lerne and gladly . . . In-Reply-To: <7db1d01b0809071610m1f86beackaf8e84e4f28843ab@mail.gmail.com> References: <7db1d01b0809071610m1f86beackaf8e84e4f28843ab@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: I am a Quality Manager and ISO Coordinator for a medical device manufacturer. Got spouse, daughters, grandchildren, cat. Live in the boonies of Vermont. best, manda > > 2008/9/7 Skip Fox > >> I realize the more interesting question might be: Who on the list >> doesn't teach and what do you do? (I can read but not post from home or >> I'd wait to ask this.) From anny.ballardini Mon Sep 8 00:42:02 2008 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2008 06:42:02 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] And gladly wolde they lerne and gladly . . . In-Reply-To: References: <7db1d01b0809071610m1f86beackaf8e84e4f28843ab@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4b65c2d70809072142ya322e8dr9b60247b1ebfde91@mail.gmail.com> I teach, translate, teach, translate, teach, translate. The dentist asked me for an incredible amount of money, I am therefore on the market for more teaching and translating. On Mon, Sep 8, 2008 at 2:32 AM, Amanda Surkont wrote: > I am a Quality Manager and ISO Coordinator > for a medical device manufacturer. Got > spouse, daughters, grandchildren, cat. > Live in the boonies of Vermont. > > > best, manda > > > > > >> 2008/9/7 Skip Fox >> >> I realize the more interesting question might be: Who on the list >>> doesn't teach and what do you do? (I can read but not post from home or I'd >>> wait to ask this.) >>> >> _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From c288 Mon Sep 8 01:34:43 2008 From: c288 (Charmaine Pettit ) Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2008 05:34:43 +0000 Subject: [New-Poetry] And gladly wolde they lerne and gladly . . . Message-ID: I am a grant writer for a nonprofit. All my endeavors are experimental in quest and seem to lead in directions unpredictable many times. I find that writing when it is not forced (not while I'm working) are so relaxing and bring a sense of ease and peace to my thinking processes. Its late sorry for the rambling and poor grammer. Currently traveling and in NY its 1am I think? Charmaine Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T -----Original Message----- From: Skip Fox Date: Sun, 7 Sep 2008 20:03:12 To: Subject: RE: [New-Poetry] And gladly wolde they lerne and gladly . . . I realize the more interesting question might be: Who on the list doesn?t teach and what do you do? (I can read but not post from home or I?d wait to ask this.) ? -----Original Message----- From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Skip Fox Sent: Sunday, September 07, 2008 2:59 PM To: amyhappens at yahoo.com; 'NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views' Subject: [New-Poetry] And gladly wolde they lerne and gladly . . . ? Do most of us teach for a living? (I do.) From atelierjewelweed Mon Sep 8 09:43:53 2008 From: atelierjewelweed (Suzanne Burns) Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2008 09:43:53 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] notebooks, humble and not so humble In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Rhodia has been my favorite for years. :-) On Sun, Sep 7, 2008 at 11:19 AM, wrote: > http://deeplinking.net/notebook-reviews/ > > > > ------------------------------ > Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the > latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com > . > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard Mon Sep 8 10:51:32 2008 From: halvard (Halvard Johnson) Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2008 09:51:32 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] And gladly wolde they lerne and gladly . . . In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <45BF6EF8-75C6-4A1B-8AE4-6C33EE832C05@earthlink.net> I'm a reformed teacher. I spend my time living in San Miguel de Allende and sometimes in NYC--writing and writing, and then . . . when I have some free time . . . writing. Oh, and a bit of editing just to make the time run more slowly. Hal On Sep 7, 2008, at 3:03 PM, Skip Fox wrote: > I realize the more interesting question might be: Who on the list > doesn?t teach and what do you do? (I can read but not post from home > or I?d wait to ask this.) > > -----Original Message----- > From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu > ] On Behalf Of Skip Fox > Sent: Sunday, September 07, 2008 2:59 PM > To: amyhappens at yahoo.com; 'NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News > &Views' > Subject: [New-Poetry] And gladly wolde they lerne and gladly . . . > > Do most of us teach for a living? (I do.) > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry "Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups." --George Carlin Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at earthlink.net halvard at gmail.com http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From atelierjewelweed Mon Sep 8 11:00:36 2008 From: atelierjewelweed (Suzanne Burns) Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2008 11:00:36 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] And gladly wolde they lerne and gladly . . . In-Reply-To: <45BF6EF8-75C6-4A1B-8AE4-6C33EE832C05@earthlink.net> References: <45BF6EF8-75C6-4A1B-8AE4-6C33EE832C05@earthlink.net> Message-ID: Halvard, I'd like to learn more about San Miguel de Allende at some point. It's on my list of possible places to hang my hat in the future! Suzanne On Mon, Sep 8, 2008 at 10:51 AM, Halvard Johnson wrote: > I'm a reformed teacher. I spend my time living in San Miguel de Allende andsometimes > in NYC--writing and writing, and then . . . when I have some free > time . . . writing. Oh, and a bit of editing just to make the time run more > slowly. > > Hal > > > On Sep 7, 2008, at 3:03 PM, Skip Fox wrote: > > I realize the more interesting question might be: Who on the list doesn't > teach and what do you do? (I can read but not post from home or I'd wait to > ask this.) > > > -----Original Message----- > *From:* new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu [ > mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu > ] *On Behalf Of *Skip Fox > *Sent:* Sunday, September 07, 2008 2:59 PM > *To:* amyhappens at yahoo.com; 'NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News > &Views' > *Subject:* [New-Poetry] And gladly wolde they lerne and gladly . . . > > > Do most of us teach for a living? (I do.) > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > "Never underestimate the power of stupid > people in large groups." > --George Carlin > > Halvard Johnson > ================ > halvard at earthlink.net > halvard at gmail.com > http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > http://www.hamiltonstone.org > http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html > > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames Mon Sep 8 11:06:53 2008 From: jforjames (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2008 11:06:53 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetry getting down to dance Message-ID: <8CADFDBA9B043F1-578-924@MBLK-M11.sysops.aol.com> http://newswire.ascribe.org/cgi-bin/behold.pl?ascribeid=20080905.143004&time=15%2015%20PDT&year=2008&public=0 Fri Sep 5 15:15:49 2008 Pacific Time ????? ADVISORY for noon-4 p.m. PDT Saturday, Sept. 27 ????? International Festival of Thought and Motion: 15th Dancing Poetry Festival ?? ???? SAN FRANCISCO, Sept. 5 (AScribe Newswire) -- The presentation of over 25 prize-winning new works of poetry read by the authors at the Palace of the Legion of Honor is something to celebrate and helps to illustrate what is currently on the mind of today's poet. This is the 15th anniversary of excellent poets and poetry who bring diversity and emotion to the theater at the Palace of the Legion of Honor for this unique poetic gala. ?????? Another highlight of the festival Sept. 27 includes dance companies who are inspired by poetry to create new poetic dances. Eighteen short, colorful and diverse poetic dance performances help make the Dancing Poetry Festival an enlightening and uplifting event that conveys the thoughts, ideas and creative energy inherent in the inspirations possible with the arts of poetry together with dance. Each memorable poetic dance performance is motivated by a poem. ?????? To see, hear and better understand the heartbeat of many cultures by experiencing the most telling of the art forms, in feeling, thought and ideas as expressed through the universal soul of poetry, dance and music, is a goal of the festival. ?????? "Exchanging and sharing the world's poetry and dance talent in mutual appreciation, and expanding the love of poetry and dance, is something to dance about," says artistic director, Natica Angilly. ?????? "The many ways the dance may collaborate in moving presentation of those sometimes meaningful or sometimes comical thoughts becomes a poetic event for poets, dancers, artists, poetry or dance enthusiasts and families to be stimulated, informed of topics of interest, inspired to creativity, as well as to be entertained." ?????? Many professional and community performance artists have created special works for performance at this one-of-a-kind event. Selections are made from submissions of dance proposals. Dancers and companies are encouraged to consider collaborating with poets or choosing favorite poetry for motivation. Poets are encouraged to collaborate with their own selected dancers in considering bringing poetry to a dancing medium. Annually, the three grand prize poems become the year's choreographic challenge for the Poetic Dance Theater Company. The company embraces the creative opportunity to bring those three poems from the page to the stage in poetic dance premier. ?????? The three grand prize poems that have motivated this year's poetic dance presentations are: ?????? "Silence of the Song" by Janice P. Egry of Verbank, NY, "Xenophilia" by Allison Joseph of Carbondale, Ill., and "In Praise of the Jelly Fish", by Lucille Lang Day of Oakland, Calif., danced by Natica Angilly's Poetic Dance Theater Company, with poet Richard Angilly and more. For information and tickets please call 510-235-0351 or check our website at: http://www.dancingpoetry.com . ?????? - - - - ?????? CONTACT: Natica Angilly, 510-235-0361 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd Mon Sep 8 11:15:17 2008 From: grahamd (David Graham) Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2008 10:15:17 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] And gladly wolde they lerne and gladly . . . In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Yet another teacher here, yes. And another thing that might be interesting to know would be how many of us teach in MFA programs? I'm guessing that the answer will be: rather few. A lot of the people I run into at the AWP conference seem to teach at community colleges, high schools, undergraduate programs, etc. Many part-time and adjunct, too. I wonder how many of us on this list who teach actually teach in grad programs of creative writing? I've been a teacher for 30 years or so, depending on how you count my grad school teaching assistantship, but the vast majority of classes I've taught have been freshman comp and literature courses, with nary a grad student to be seen. A pet peeve of mine is how frequently critics of the current poetry scene act as though poets are not only all professors, but professors at at Iowa or Columbia, teaching the occasional small seminar of grad students when we are not on leave in Italy. . . . -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From skip Mon Sep 8 11:26:52 2008 From: skip (Skip Fox) Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2008 10:26:52 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] And gladly wolde they lerne and gladly . . . In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I've been teaching over 30 years (counting teaching in graduate school) and in a program which gives a concentration at the Ph.D. level in creative writing as well as Folklore, Women's Studies, Rhetoric. We don't give an MFA , but we have many creative theses. I love interacting with the bright grad students who are more into writing than career (but have to work with all . . . that's okay), but I also love to work with undergraduates who are just opening their eyes to the possibility that writing might open entirely new ways of thinking, etc. -----Original Message----- From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of David Graham Sent: Monday, September 08, 2008 10:15 AM To: NewPoetry Subject: [New-Poetry] And gladly wolde they lerne and gladly . . . Yet another teacher here, yes. And another thing that might be interesting to know would be how many of us teach in MFA programs? I'm guessing that the answer will be: rather few. A lot of the people I run into at the AWP conference seem to teach at community colleges, high schools, undergraduate programs, etc. Many part-time and adjunct, too. I wonder how many of us on this list who teach actually teach in grad programs of creative writing? I've been a teacher for 30 years or so, depending on how you count my grad school teaching assistantship, but the vast majority of classes I've taught have been freshman comp and literature courses, with nary a grad student to be seen. A pet peeve of mine is how frequently critics of the current poetry scene act as though poets are not only all professors, but professors at at Iowa or Columbia, teaching the occasional small seminar of grad students when we are not on leave in Italy. . . . -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini Mon Sep 8 11:42:19 2008 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2008 17:42:19 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] And gladly wolde they lerne and gladly . . . In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4b65c2d70809080842mbb80efy416959a6e97ef3df@mail.gmail.com> Hey, I am sweating in Italy... :-) On Mon, Sep 8, 2008 at 5:15 PM, David Graham wrote: > > > Yet another teacher here, yes. > > And another thing that might be interesting to know would be how many of us > teach in MFA programs? I'm guessing that the answer will be: rather few. > A lot of the people I run into at the AWP conference seem to teach at > community colleges, high schools, undergraduate programs, etc. Many > part-time and adjunct, too. > > I wonder how many of us on this list who teach actually teach in grad > programs of creative writing? > > I've been a teacher for 30 years or so, depending on how you count my grad > school teaching assistantship, but the vast majority of classes I've taught > have been freshman comp and literature courses, with nary a grad student to > be seen. > > A pet peeve of mine is how frequently critics of the current poetry scene > act as though poets are not only all professors, but professors at at Iowa > or Columbia, teaching the occasional small seminar of grad students when we > are not on leave in Italy. . . . > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd Mon Sep 8 11:44:08 2008 From: grahamd (David Graham) Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2008 10:44:08 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] And gladly wolde they lerne and gladly . . . In-Reply-To: <4b65c2d70809080842mbb80efy416959a6e97ef3df@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: So, do they have graduate creative writing programs in Italy, Anny? On 9/8/08 10:42 AM, "Anny Ballardini" wrote: > Hey, I am sweating in Italy... :-) ==================================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/About%20Me.html Poetry Library: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ==================================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini Mon Sep 8 12:25:38 2008 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2008 18:25:38 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] And gladly wolde they lerne and gladly . . . In-Reply-To: References: <4b65c2d70809080842mbb80efy416959a6e97ef3df@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4b65c2d70809080925i2c085b8epadc4510b46262e5e@mail.gmail.com> Oh sorry, I should have been more precise, my reference was to your words: "when we are not on leave in Italy" in Italy they have ruins, dirty ruins, a lot of mafia, some grappa, and heaps of debts, and bureaucracy is so strong that it suffocates it all_ when I say these things in class they think they do not like me any more. It was Paul Vangelisti who told me they should soon have an MFA program here in Italy, that there is one in Paris, one in ... something like three-four scattered around Europe. On Mon, Sep 8, 2008 at 5:44 PM, David Graham wrote: > So, do they have graduate creative writing programs in Italy, Anny? > > > > > On 9/8/08 10:42 AM, "Anny Ballardini" wrote: > > Hey, I am sweating in Italy... :-) > > > > > ==================================================== > David Graham > grahamd at ripon.edu > Home Page: > http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/About%20Me.html > > Poetry Library: > http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html > ==================================================== > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard Mon Sep 8 12:40:30 2008 From: halvard (Halvard Johnson) Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2008 11:40:30 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] And gladly wolde they lerne and gladly . . . In-Reply-To: <4b65c2d70809080925i2c085b8epadc4510b46262e5e@mail.gmail.com> References: <4b65c2d70809080842mbb80efy416959a6e97ef3df@mail.gmail.com> <4b65c2d70809080925i2c085b8epadc4510b46262e5e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Oy, those Europeans. They don't think folks need to go to college to learn to be creative any more than they need to go to college to study their native language. Hal On Sep 8, 2008, at 11:25 AM, Anny Ballardini wrote: > Oh sorry, I should have been more precise, my reference was to your > words: > "when we are not on leave in Italy" > > in Italy they have ruins, dirty ruins, a lot of mafia, some grappa, > and heaps of debts, and bureaucracy is so strong that it suffocates > it all_ > when I say these things in class they think they do not like me any > more. > > It was Paul Vangelisti who told me they should soon have an MFA > program here in Italy, that there is one in Paris, one in ... > something like three-four scattered around Europe. > > > On Mon, Sep 8, 2008 at 5:44 PM, David Graham > wrote: > So, do they have graduate creative writing programs in Italy, Anny? > > > > > > On 9/8/08 10:42 AM, "Anny Ballardini" > wrote: > > Hey, I am sweating in Italy... :-) > > > > ==================================================== > > David Graham > grahamd at ripon.edu > Home Page: > http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/About%20Me.html > > Poetry Library: > http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html > ==================================================== > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > -- > Anny Ballardini > http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ > http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome > http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html > I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a > dancing star! > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry "Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups." --George Carlin Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at earthlink.net halvard at gmail.com http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini Mon Sep 8 12:51:49 2008 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2008 18:51:49 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] school Message-ID: <4b65c2d70809080951v15ba460cn5b38376bfbf5f8dc@mail.gmail.com> Time! http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2008/09/08/opinion/20080908_opart.html -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From AlMaginnes Mon Sep 8 12:54:01 2008 From: AlMaginnes (AlMaginnes at aol.com) Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2008 12:54:01 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] And gladly wolde they lerne and gladly . . . Message-ID: I've been teaching at a community college for fifteen years. Before that it was three years at a private junior college. I teach a lot of comp, a bit of literature and a bit of creative writing. I run a reading series that's reasonably well funded with no outside interference. I've done some part timing at four year schools around here but have been here long enough that my salary doesn't really make me a very attractive new hire candidate. **************Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. (http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jjeffreymail Mon Sep 8 13:16:57 2008 From: jjeffreymail (John Jeffrey) Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2008 10:16:57 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] And gladly wolde they lerne and gladly . . . Message-ID: <837118.52771.qm@web54112.mail.re2.yahoo.com> >From someone who spends most his time on this list lurking and reading (and shaking my head), I work as a software analyst, and, before that, as a deli manager. No teaching t'all. John Jeffrey ----- Original Message ---- From: Skip Fox To: amyhappens at yahoo.com; "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views" Sent: Sunday, September 7, 2008 3:59:20 PM Subject: [New-Poetry] And gladly wolde they lerne and gladly . . . Do most of us teach for a living? (I do.) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From oedipa Mon Sep 8 13:39:19 2008 From: oedipa (karen) Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2008 13:39:19 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] And gladly wolde they lerne and gladly . . . In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I teach at UMASS and I am a grad student there in Poetry. When I'm not doing that, I'm a web programmer.... karen On Mon, Sep 8, 2008 at 11:15 AM, David Graham wrote: > > > Yet another teacher here, yes. > > And another thing that might be interesting to know would be how many of us > teach in MFA programs? I'm guessing that the answer will be: rather few. > A lot of the people I run into at the AWP conference seem to teach at > community colleges, high schools, undergraduate programs, etc. Many > part-time and adjunct, too. > > I wonder how many of us on this list who teach actually teach in grad > programs of creative writing? > > I've been a teacher for 30 years or so, depending on how you count my grad > school teaching assistantship, but the vast majority of classes I've taught > have been freshman comp and literature courses, with nary a grad student to > be seen. > > A pet peeve of mine is how frequently critics of the current poetry scene > act as though poets are not only all professors, but professors at at Iowa > or Columbia, teaching the occasional small seminar of grad students when we > are not on leave in Italy. . . . > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > From atelierjewelweed Mon Sep 8 14:08:26 2008 From: atelierjewelweed (Suzanne Burns) Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2008 14:08:26 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] And gladly wolde they lerne and gladly . . . In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sun, Sep 7, 2008 at 4:03 PM, Skip Fox wrote: > I realize the more interesting question might be: Who on the list doesn't > teach and what do you do? (I can read but not post from home or I'd wait to > ask this.) > I'm a technical writer/editor for a software company. I used to teach but couldn't find a full-time job to save my life. I five years I hope to retire completely from this industry and take a fresh path involving travel, writing, and much lollygagging. Suzanne Burns -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jfq Mon Sep 8 14:16:02 2008 From: jfq (Jason Quackenbush) Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2008 11:16:02 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] And gladly wolde they lerne and gladly . . . In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <626682C7-0546-4248-B175-35A2C31B166E@myuw.net> I work in outsourcing. On Sep 7, 2008, at 1:03 PM, Skip Fox wrote: > I realize the more interesting question might be: Who on the list > doesn't > teach and what do you do? (I can read but not post from home or I'd > wait to > ask this.) > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu > [mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Skip Fox > Sent: Sunday, September 07, 2008 2:59 PM > To: amyhappens at yahoo.com; 'NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News > &Views' > Subject: [New-Poetry] And gladly wolde they lerne and gladly . . . > > > > Do most of us teach for a living? (I do.) > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry Jason Quackenbush jfq at myuw.net From skip Mon Sep 8 14:23:38 2008 From: skip (Skip Fox) Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2008 13:23:38 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] And gladly wolde they lerne and gladly . . . In-Reply-To: <626682C7-0546-4248-B175-35A2C31B166E@myuw.net> Message-ID: <78D2FC136DE8490DBB54924308429DBF@win.louisiana.edu> I outsource my work. (Poetry, an exteriorizing of the ulteriors.) -----Original Message----- From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Jason Quackenbush Sent: Monday, September 08, 2008 1:16 PM To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] And gladly wolde they lerne and gladly . . . I work in outsourcing. On Sep 7, 2008, at 1:03 PM, Skip Fox wrote: > I realize the more interesting question might be: Who on the list > doesn't > teach and what do you do? (I can read but not post from home or I'd > wait to > ask this.) > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu > [mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Skip Fox > Sent: Sunday, September 07, 2008 2:59 PM > To: amyhappens at yahoo.com; 'NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News > &Views' > Subject: [New-Poetry] And gladly wolde they lerne and gladly . . . > > > > Do most of us teach for a living? (I do.) > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry Jason Quackenbush jfq at myuw.net _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From editor Mon Sep 8 14:50:01 2008 From: editor (David Baratier) Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2008 11:50:01 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] working In-Reply-To: <200809081600.m88G05nJ016033@wiz.cath.vt.edu> Message-ID: <310771.68275.qm@web45603.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> This is a test, I have written my posts in invisible ink for so long I was unsure if this would work. If not, squeeze a lemon over, shake this around, hold to light. Be well David Baratier, Editor Pavement Saw Press 321 Empire Street Montpelier OH 43543 http://pavementsaw.org Subscribe to our e-mail listserv at http://pavementsaw.org/list/?p=subscribe&id=1 --- On Mon, 9/8/08, new-poetry-request at wiz.cath.vt.edu wrote: > From: new-poetry-request at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Subject: New-Poetry Digest, Vol 51, Issue 11 > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Date: Monday, September 8, 2008, 4:00 PM > Send New-Poetry mailing list submissions to > new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > or, via email, send a message with subject or body > 'help' to > new-poetry-request at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > You can reach the person managing the list at > new-poetry-owner at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more > specific > than "Re: Contents of New-Poetry digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. And gladly wolde they lerne and gladly . . . (David > Graham) > 2. Re: And gladly wolde they lerne and gladly . . . > (Anny Ballardini) > 3. Re: And gladly wolde they lerne and gladly . . . > (Halvard Johnson) > 4. school (Anny Ballardini) > 5. Re: And gladly wolde they lerne and gladly . . . > (AlMaginnes at aol.com) > 6. Re: And gladly wolde they lerne and gladly . . . > (John Jeffrey) > 7. Re: And gladly wolde they lerne and gladly . . . > (karen) > 8. Re: And gladly wolde they lerne and gladly . . . > (Suzanne Burns) > 9. Re: And gladly wolde they lerne and gladly . . . > (Jason Quackenbush) > 10. RE: And gladly wolde they lerne and gladly . . . > (Skip Fox) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2008 10:44:08 -0500 > From: David Graham > Subject: [New-Poetry] And gladly wolde they lerne and > gladly . . . > To: NewPoetry > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > So, do they have graduate creative writing programs in > Italy, Anny? > > > > > On 9/8/08 10:42 AM, "Anny Ballardini" > wrote: > > > Hey, I am sweating in Italy... :-) > > > > ==================================================== > David Graham > grahamd at ripon.edu > Home Page: > http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/About%20Me.html > > Poetry Library: > http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html > ==================================================== > > > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080908/4213a238/attachment-0001.html > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2008 18:25:38 +0200 > From: "Anny Ballardini" > > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] And gladly wolde they lerne and > gladly . . . > To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News > &, Views" > > Message-ID: > <4b65c2d70809080925i2c085b8epadc4510b46262e5e at mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > Oh sorry, I should have been more precise, my reference was > to your words: > "when we are not on leave in Italy" > > in Italy they have ruins, dirty ruins, a lot of mafia, some > grappa, and > heaps of debts, and bureaucracy is so strong that it > suffocates it all_ > when I say these things in class they think they do not > like me any more. > > It was Paul Vangelisti who told me they should soon have an > MFA program here > in Italy, that there is one in Paris, one in ... something > like three-four > scattered around Europe. > > > On Mon, Sep 8, 2008 at 5:44 PM, David Graham > wrote: > > > So, do they have graduate creative writing programs > in Italy, Anny? > > > > > > > > > > On 9/8/08 10:42 AM, "Anny Ballardini" > wrote: > > > > Hey, I am sweating in Italy... :-) > > > > > > > > > > ==================================================== > > David Graham > > grahamd at ripon.edu > > Home Page: > > http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/About%20Me.html > > > > Poetry Library: > > http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html > > ==================================================== > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > > > -- > Anny Ballardini > http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ > http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome > http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html > I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth > to a dancing > star! > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080908/0590abfb/attachment-0001.html > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2008 11:40:30 -0500 > From: Halvard Johnson > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] And gladly wolde they lerne and > gladly . . . > To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News > & Views" > > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Oy, those Europeans. They don't think folks need to go > to college > to learn to be creative any more than they need to go to > college > to study their native language. > > Hal > > On Sep 8, 2008, at 11:25 AM, Anny Ballardini wrote: > > > Oh sorry, I should have been more precise, my > reference was to your > > words: > > "when we are not on leave in Italy" > > > > in Italy they have ruins, dirty ruins, a lot of mafia, > some grappa, > > and heaps of debts, and bureaucracy is so strong that > it suffocates > > it all_ > > when I say these things in class they think they do > not like me any > > more. > > > > It was Paul Vangelisti who told me they should soon > have an MFA > > program here in Italy, that there is one in Paris, one > in ... > > something like three-four scattered around Europe. > > > > > > On Mon, Sep 8, 2008 at 5:44 PM, David Graham > > > wrote: > > So, do they have graduate creative writing programs in > Italy, Anny? > > > > > > > > > > > > On 9/8/08 10:42 AM, "Anny Ballardini" > > > wrote: > > > > Hey, I am sweating in Italy... :-) > > > > > > > > ==================================================== > > > > David Graham > > grahamd at ripon.edu > > Home Page: > > http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/About%20Me.html > > > > Poetry Library: > > http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html > > ==================================================== > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Anny Ballardini > > http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ > > http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome > > http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html > > I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give > birth to a > > dancing star! > > > > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > "Never underestimate the power of stupid > people in large groups." > --George Carlin > > Halvard Johnson > ================ > halvard at earthlink.net > halvard at gmail.com > http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > http://www.hamiltonstone.org > http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html > > > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080908/8d2cb85c/attachment-0001.html > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2008 18:51:49 +0200 > From: "Anny Ballardini" > > Subject: [New-Poetry] school > To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News > &, Views" > > Message-ID: > <4b65c2d70809080951v15ba460cn5b38376bfbf5f8dc at mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > Time! > > http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2008/09/08/opinion/20080908_opart.html > > > > > -- > Anny Ballardini > http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ > http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome > http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html > I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth > to a dancing > star! > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080908/9560c758/attachment-0001.html > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2008 12:54:01 EDT > From: AlMaginnes at aol.com > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] And gladly wolde they lerne and > gladly . . . > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > I've been teaching at a community college for fifteen > years. Before that it > was three years at a private junior college. I teach a lot > of comp, a bit of > literature and a bit of creative writing. I run a reading > series that's > reasonably well funded with no outside interference. > I've done some part timing at > four year schools around here but have been here long > enough that my salary > doesn't really make me a very attractive new hire > candidate. > > > > **************Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's > a new fashion blog, > plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at > StyleList.com. > (http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014) > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080908/9a4d9b9d/attachment-0001.html > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 6 > Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2008 10:16:57 -0700 (PDT) > From: John Jeffrey > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] And gladly wolde they lerne and > gladly . . . > To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News > & Views" > > Message-ID: > <837118.52771.qm at web54112.mail.re2.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > >From someone who spends most his time on this list > lurking and reading (and shaking my head), I work as a > software analyst, and, before that, as a deli manager. No > teaching t'all. > > John Jeffrey > > > > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: Skip Fox > To: amyhappens at yahoo.com; "NewPoetry: Contemporary > Poetry News & Views" > > Sent: Sunday, September 7, 2008 3:59:20 PM > Subject: [New-Poetry] And gladly wolde they lerne and > gladly . . . > > > Do most of us teach for a living? (I do.) > > > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080908/7ed5e7b0/attachment-0001.html > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 7 > Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2008 13:39:19 -0400 > From: karen > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] And gladly wolde they lerne and > gladly . . . > To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News > &, Views" > > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > I teach at UMASS and I am a grad student there in Poetry. > When I'm > not doing that, I'm a web programmer.... > > karen > > On Mon, Sep 8, 2008 at 11:15 AM, David Graham > wrote: > > > > > > Yet another teacher here, yes. > > > > And another thing that might be interesting to know > would be how many of us > > teach in MFA programs? I'm guessing that the > answer will be: rather few. > > A lot of the people I run into at the AWP conference > seem to teach at > > community colleges, high schools, undergraduate > programs, etc. Many > > part-time and adjunct, too. > > > > I wonder how many of us on this list who teach > actually teach in grad > > programs of creative writing? > > > > I've been a teacher for 30 years or so, depending > on how you count my grad > > school teaching assistantship, but the vast majority > of classes I've taught > > have been freshman comp and literature courses, with > nary a grad student to > > be seen. > > > > A pet peeve of mine is how frequently critics of the > current poetry scene > > act as though poets are not only all professors, but > professors at at Iowa > > or Columbia, teaching the occasional small seminar of > grad students when we > > are not on leave in Italy. . . . > > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 8 > Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2008 14:08:26 -0400 > From: "Suzanne Burns" > > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] And gladly wolde they lerne and > gladly . . . > To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News > &, Views" > > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > On Sun, Sep 7, 2008 at 4:03 PM, Skip Fox > wrote: > > > I realize the more interesting question might be: Who > on the list doesn't > > teach and what do you do? (I can read but not post > from home or I'd wait to > > ask this.) > > > > I'm a technical writer/editor for a software company. > I used to teach but > couldn't find a full-time job to save my life. > > I five years I hope to retire completely from this industry > and take a fresh > path involving travel, writing, and much lollygagging. > > > Suzanne Burns > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080908/22ef14d2/attachment-0001.html > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 9 > Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2008 11:16:02 -0700 > From: Jason Quackenbush > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] And gladly wolde they lerne and > gladly . . . > > To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News > & Views" > > Message-ID: > <626682C7-0546-4248-B175-35A2C31B166E at myuw.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; > format=flowed > > I work in outsourcing. > > On Sep 7, 2008, at 1:03 PM, Skip Fox wrote: > > > I realize the more interesting question might be: Who > on the list > > doesn't > > teach and what do you do? (I can read but not post > from home or I'd > > wait to > > ask this.) > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > [mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf > Of Skip Fox > > Sent: Sunday, September 07, 2008 2:59 PM > > To: amyhappens at yahoo.com; 'NewPoetry: Contemporary > Poetry News > > &Views' > > Subject: [New-Poetry] And gladly wolde they lerne and > gladly . . . > > > > > > > > Do most of us teach for a living? (I do.) > > > > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > Jason Quackenbush > jfq at myuw.net > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 10 > Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2008 13:23:38 -0500 > From: "Skip Fox" > Subject: RE: [New-Poetry] And gladly wolde they lerne and > gladly . . . > > To: "'NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News > & Views'" > > Message-ID: > <78D2FC136DE8490DBB54924308429DBF at win.louisiana.edu> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" > > I outsource my work. > > (Poetry, an exteriorizing of the ulteriors.) > > -----Original Message----- > From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu > [mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of > Jason Quackenbush > Sent: Monday, September 08, 2008 1:16 PM > To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] And gladly wolde they lerne and > gladly . . . > > I work in outsourcing. > > On Sep 7, 2008, at 1:03 PM, Skip Fox wrote: > > > I realize the more interesting question might be: Who > on the list > > doesn't > > teach and what do you do? (I can read but not post > from home or I'd > > wait to > > ask this.) > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > [mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf > Of Skip Fox > > Sent: Sunday, September 07, 2008 2:59 PM > > To: amyhappens at yahoo.com; 'NewPoetry: Contemporary > Poetry News > > &Views' > > Subject: [New-Poetry] And gladly wolde they lerne and > gladly . . . > > > > > > > > Do most of us teach for a living? (I do.) > > > > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > Jason Quackenbush > jfq at myuw.net > > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > End of New-Poetry Digest, Vol 51, Issue 11 > ****************************************** From anny.ballardini Mon Sep 8 14:59:09 2008 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2008 20:59:09 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] And gladly wolde they lerne and gladly . . . In-Reply-To: References: <4b65c2d70809080842mbb80efy416959a6e97ef3df@mail.gmail.com> <4b65c2d70809080925i2c085b8epadc4510b46262e5e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4b65c2d70809081159x10e46fa7o651def889c56ed35@mail.gmail.com> You are not kidding Hal. From what the School trade unionists told me recently, the Minister of Education asked universities to pass all Grad Students because Italy was very low in Graduates, and the Nation had to appear healthy and educated at the eyes of the more committed Northern Countries. We thus have and will soon have, docs who confuse a hammer for a saw, dentists who think they are horseshoers, teachers who take notes from their students (many of my colleagues), and lawyers who are pistoleros from the Far far Nowhere. I truly believe in everything I wrote. On Mon, Sep 8, 2008 at 6:40 PM, Halvard Johnson wrote: > Oy, those Europeans. They don't think folks need to go to collegeto learn > to be creative any more than they need to go to college > to study their native language. > > Hal > > > "Never underestimate the power of stupid > people in large groups." > --George Carlin > > Halvard Johnson > ================ > halvard at earthlink.net > halvard at gmail.com > http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > http://www.hamiltonstone.org > http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html > > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini Mon Sep 8 15:04:23 2008 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2008 21:04:23 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: school In-Reply-To: <4b65c2d70809080951v15ba460cn5b38376bfbf5f8dc@mail.gmail.com> References: <4b65c2d70809080951v15ba460cn5b38376bfbf5f8dc@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4b65c2d70809081204o42f52d14y3039462c3d9970c2@mail.gmail.com> Time! http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2008/09/08/opinion/20080908_opart.html -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jbalizsprince Mon Sep 8 15:25:30 2008 From: jbalizsprince (Judy Prince) Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2008 15:25:30 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: school In-Reply-To: <4b65c2d70809081204o42f52d14y3039462c3d9970c2@mail.gmail.com> References: <4b65c2d70809080951v15ba460cn5b38376bfbf5f8dc@mail.gmail.com> <4b65c2d70809081204o42f52d14y3039462c3d9970c2@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7db1d01b0809081225x1fda31a7i4ae6b507b5465bf6@mail.gmail.com> Lovely, Anny. I mean Hombre. ;-) 2008/9/8 Anny Ballardini > > > > > Time! > > http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2008/09/08/opinion/20080908_opart.html > > > > > -- > Anny Ballardini > http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ > http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome > http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html > I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing > star! > > > > > -- > Anny Ballardini > http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ > http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome > http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html > I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing > star! > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rsillima Mon Sep 8 15:48:20 2008 From: rsillima (Ron Silliman) Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2008 12:48:20 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Not teaching In-Reply-To: <200809081316.m88DGjnK008654@wiz.cath.vt.edu> Message-ID: <752309.16060.qm@web31814.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I'm a market analyst in the computer industry. I have taught, but only in visiting lectureship type situations, and worked as a director development for a grad school for a few years. But I've also been an editor, a lobbyist, and a community organizer (which is like being a small town mayor, except you actually do stuff, and have a much better chance of getting killed for it) -- I helped to save over 10,000 units of low-income housing in San Francisco in the late '70s, sat on an arson task force that predicted which buildings would burn and got the city focused on the issue of homelessness for the first time. But I was also assaulted five times in five years in that job. Ron From jbalizsprince Mon Sep 8 16:17:40 2008 From: jbalizsprince (Judy Prince) Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2008 16:17:40 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Not teaching In-Reply-To: <752309.16060.qm@web31814.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <200809081316.m88DGjnK008654@wiz.cath.vt.edu> <752309.16060.qm@web31814.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <7db1d01b0809081317o233c44dk31f4c77c467a9cc7@mail.gmail.com> What, you couldnae find the Bully-free way home from school? Seriously, with dedication like yours----most of us would be dead. Seriously, Ron---my several hats're off to you. I'd've been the first one of your acquaintances-in-action to run for the hills and never return. Judy with a Proper Bow and Curtsy 2008/9/8 Ron Silliman > I'm a market analyst in the computer industry. I have taught, but only in > visiting lectureship type situations, and worked as a director development > for a grad school for a few years. But I've also been an editor, a lobbyist, > and a community organizer (which is like being a small town mayor, except > you actually do stuff, and have a much better chance of getting killed for > it) -- I helped to save over 10,000 units of low-income housing in San > Francisco in the late '70s, sat on an arson task force that predicted which > buildings would burn and got the city focused on the issue of homelessness > for the first time. But I was also assaulted five times in five years in > that job. > > Ron > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames Mon Sep 8 17:57:24 2008 From: jforjames (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2008 17:57:24 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fincke's 10th Message-ID: <8CAE01502D16DEA-10AC-9E1@webmail-de09.sysops.aol.com> http://www.dailyitem.com/0100_news/local_story_252000116.html Local poet Gary Fincke publishes his 10th book Personal memories highlighted By Damian Gessel The Daily Item SELINSGROVE -- Local poet Gary Fincke has a talent for making the unfamiliar feel like home. ? Fincke tunes all of his keen senses on and doesn't ever shut them off in his newly-released full-length book of poetry, "The Fire Landscape." You weren't standing in the crowd for the Kent State shooting, you likely didn't know anyone hurt or killed, but Fincke makes you feel the gravity of that 38-year-old day, the weight of three generations of men, three lifetimes of looking back at the places and events that forever change us. In this, his 10th book of poetry, Fincke aims for the autobiographical -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini Mon Sep 8 18:02:11 2008 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2008 00:02:11 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Working stories Message-ID: <4b65c2d70809081502g70832deex354bb3a07f28c38e@mail.gmail.com> Several years ago they asked me to open a reading point in the tourist resort where my parents lived and where I was living. I will spare the details (worth some interesting fiction, at least that is the way I write fiction) and after a year or so, the reading point had become a sort of after school meeting point for the kids of the place where they could do their homework, and ask me to help them. The reading point depended on the main library in a village some 30kms away. In the said library, quite a big structure on two floors, built thanks to the legacy of a man who had spent his life working in the States, was managed by a librarian (an old Marxist who had opened the original library with his own books), a diabetic (a 22 year-old girl, niece of the mayor who kicked the pc to switch it on [I'll never forget that], and received the job because she suffered from diabetes) and a 55 or so year old handicapped man who could barely walk. The librarian had recently been appointed President of the cooperatives, was also a free-lance journalist, and was not able to cope with the amount of work. He sort of asked me if I could help him out. Which is what I did. I worked my eight ? nine ? ten hours and during the lunch break (some 2 or 3 hours) I stayed inside the library trying to find the books the diabetic put on the shelves to move them to their right places. She did not know the alphabet and letters like j ? k ? w ? y ? x could be found anywhere. Nobody ever paid me for this extra-work. Finally there were the elections and the village was not able to elect a new mayor. In cases like these, the government sends an official representative until the people of the place are able to elect someone. The State Official asked me about my salary, and it is thanks to him that I started receiving some money. Some six seven months went by, when the Librarian told me that it was time for him to retire, and besides that, he was not able to follow his many activities any more, that he was going to resign and to suggest I should be the director, seen the quality of my work and dedication. After a couple of days I received a letter by the new mayor, he was thanking me for all what I had done, reminded me that in over a year I hadn't taken the 33 days holiday I was supposed to take, and concluded by saying that my service was thus terminated. The library was closed. In Italy when public institutions need to employ someone they have to call for "Public competitions" which are open exams for public offices. According to Law they were forced to call one, they did six months later, as soon as my name appeared on the list of the candidates, the examination was postponed. This happened twice. I finally came to live here in Bolzano. The new chosen Director was (guess guess) a relative of the new Mayor, and guess how many people started working at the library, twelve instead of four, as we did when I worked. -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames Mon Sep 8 18:05:24 2008 From: jforjames (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2008 18:05:24 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Not teaching In-Reply-To: <752309.16060.qm@web31814.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <8CAE016211F8FA0-10AC-A65@webmail-de09.sysops.aol.com> c.v. short version: Computer system sales, then selling insurance to banks/credit unions, now more in new product development side of financial institution risk management. Newly named president of Friends & Enemies of Wallace Stevens (non-profit) here in Hartford. No MFA, but I have MBA, and CPCU. Practical to a fault. Finnegan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cervantes.james Mon Sep 8 19:26:51 2008 From: cervantes.james (James Cervantes) Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2008 18:26:51 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fincke's 10th In-Reply-To: <8CAE01502D16DEA-10AC-9E1@webmail-de09.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CAE01502D16DEA-10AC-9E1@webmail-de09.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <648208b60809081626i6645857fx1d6691fa67d9f0b7@mail.gmail.com> "Fincke aims for the autobiographical" Is that a hurdle we should all aspire to clear? - Jim On Mon, Sep 8, 2008 at 4:57 PM, wrote: > http://www.dailyitem.com/0100_news/local_story_252000116.html > Local poet Gary Fincke publishes his 10th book > Personal memories highlighted > By Damian Gessel > The Daily Item > > SELINSGROVE -- Local poet Gary Fincke has a talent for making the > unfamiliar feel like home. > > Fincke tunes all of his keen senses on and doesn't ever shut them off in > his newly-released full-length book of poetry, "The Fire Landscape." > > You weren't standing in the crowd for the Kent State shooting, you likely > didn't know anyone hurt or killed, but Fincke makes you feel the gravity of > that 38-year-old day, the weight of three generations of men, three > lifetimes of looking back at the places and events that forever change us. > > In this, his 10th book of poetry, Fincke aims for the autobiographical > ------------------------------ > Looking for spoilers and reviews on the new TV season? Get AOL's ultimate > guide to fall TV > . > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cervantes.james Mon Sep 8 19:28:54 2008 From: cervantes.james (James Cervantes) Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2008 18:28:54 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Working stories In-Reply-To: <4b65c2d70809081502g70832deex354bb3a07f28c38e@mail.gmail.com> References: <4b65c2d70809081502g70832deex354bb3a07f28c38e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <648208b60809081628v408e6c5cw91dda4d76b4d36d3@mail.gmail.com> Endemic, isn't it? - Jim On Mon, Sep 8, 2008 at 5:02 PM, Anny Ballardini wrote: > Several years ago they asked me to open a reading point in the tourist > resort where my parents lived and where I was living. I will spare the > details (worth some interesting fiction, at least that is the way I write > fiction) and after a year or so, the reading point had become a sort of > after school meeting point for the kids of the place where they could do > their homework, and ask me to help them. The reading point depended on the > main library in a village some 30kms away. In the said library, quite a big > structure on two floors, built thanks to the legacy of a man who had spent > his life working in the States, was managed by a librarian (an old Marxist > who had opened the original library with his own books), a diabetic (a 22 > year-old girl, niece of the mayor who kicked the pc to switch it on [I'll > never forget that], and received the job because she suffered from diabetes) > and a 55 or so year old handicapped man who could barely walk. > > The librarian had recently been appointed President of the cooperatives, > was also a free-lance journalist, and was not able to cope with the amount > of work. He sort of asked me if I could help him out. Which is what I did. I > worked my eight ? nine ? ten hours and during the lunch break (some 2 or 3 > hours) I stayed inside the library trying to find the books the diabetic put > on the shelves to move them to their right places. She did not know the > alphabet and letters like j ? k ? w ? y ? x could be found anywhere. > > Nobody ever paid me for this extra-work. Finally there were the elections > and the village was not able to elect a new mayor. In cases like these, the > government sends an official representative until the people of the place > are able to elect someone. The State Official asked me about my salary, and > it is thanks to him that I started receiving some money. Some six seven > months went by, when the Librarian told me that it was time for him to > retire, and besides that, he was not able to follow his many activities any > more, that he was going to resign and to suggest I should be the director, > seen the quality of my work and dedication. > > After a couple of days I received a letter by the new mayor, he was > thanking me for all what I had done, reminded me that in over a year I > hadn't taken the 33 days holiday I was supposed to take, and concluded by > saying that my service was thus terminated. The library was closed. In Italy > when public institutions need to employ someone they have to call for > "Public competitions" which are open exams for public offices. According to > Law they were forced to call one, they did six months later, as soon as my > name appeared on the list of the candidates, the examination was postponed. > This happened twice. I finally came to live here in Bolzano. The new chosen > Director was (guess guess) a relative of the new Mayor, and guess how many > people started working at the library, twelve instead of four, as we did > when I worked. > > -- > Anny Ballardini > http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ > http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome > http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html > I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing > star! > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames Mon Sep 8 19:54:11 2008 From: jforjames (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2008 19:54:11 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fincke's 10th In-Reply-To: <648208b60809081626i6645857fx1d6691fa67d9f0b7@mail.gmail.com> References: <8CAE01502D16DEA-10AC-9E1@webmail-de09.sysops.aol.com> <648208b60809081626i6645857fx1d6691fa67d9f0b7@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <8CAE0255377FEAD-1734-2378@FWM-D18.sysops.aol.com> "Know thyself" has been a starting place since those old Greeks. But?I know what?you're saying. It sounds a bit too easy. I think that for most of the general public?(that small part of it, anyway,?who may pay a little?attention to poetry), poetry is a place where looking at one's own life carefully, however subjectively,?is still permitted and encouraged. And there is something to be said for that in these dissociative?times.?I don't know Fincke's work at all, I'm afraid.?10 collections gets him?a Persistence Prize. Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: James Cervantes Sent: Mon, 8 Sep 2008 7:26 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Fincke's 10th "Fincke aims for the autobiographical" ?Is that a hurdle we should all aspire to clear? - Jim On Mon, Sep 8, 2008 at 4:57 PM, wrote: http://www.dailyitem.com/0100_news/local_story_252000116.html Local poet Gary Fincke publishes his 10th book Personal memories highlighted By Damian Gessel The Daily Item SELINSGROVE -- Local poet Gary Fincke has a talent for making the unfamiliar feel like home. ? Fincke tunes all of his keen senses on and doesn't ever shut them off in his newly-released full-length book of poetry, "The Fire Landscape." You weren't standing in the crowd for the Kent State shooting, you likely didn't know anyone hurt or killed, but Fincke makes you feel the gravity of that 38-year-old day, the weight of three generations of men, three lifetimes of looking back at the places and events that forever change us. In this, his 10th book of poetry, Fincke aims for the autobiographical Looking for spoilers and reviews on the new TV season? Get AOL's ultimate guide to fall TV. _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames Mon Sep 8 21:40:36 2008 From: jforjames (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2008 21:40:36 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Sarah Palin's library from hell In-Reply-To: <004401c91217$ae8fd7a0$0baf86e0$@net> References: <004401c91217$ae8fd7a0$0baf86e0$@net> Message-ID: <8CAE0343127E32F-1734-29EB@FWM-D18.sysops.aol.com> I'm sure most of you have seen this in your inbox. Poets must be given pause by fthe act that Shakespeare, Boccaccio ('This poetry, which ignorant triflers cast aside, is a form of glowing and exquisite invention...'),?Chaucer, Whitman?are our vernerable?representatives. While Roald Dahl and?Nikki?Giovanni are about the only contemporaries raising the mercury to F 451.?Leslea Newman is?poet laureate of Northmampton MA. Her?children's book, Heather Has Two Mommies, made the light-'em-up list. But most comtemporary?poetry books can't stoke a fundamentalist fire... A Clockwork Orange by Anthony Burgess A Wrinkle in Time by Madeleine L'Engle Annie on My Mind by Nancy Garden As I Lay Dying by William Faulkner Blubber by Judy Blume Brave New World by Aldous Huxley Bridge to Terabithia by Katherine Paterson Canterbury Tales by Chaucer Carrie by Stephen King Catch-22 by Joseph Heller Christine by Stephen King Confessions by Jean-Jacques Rousseau Cujo by Stephen King Curses, Hexes, and Spells by Daniel Cohen Daddy's Roommate by Michael Willhoite Day No Pigs Would Die by Robert Peck Death of a Salesman by Arthur Miller Decameron by Boccaccio East of Eden by John Steinbeck Fallen Angels by Walter Myers Fanny Hill (Memoirs of a Woman of Pleasure) by John Cleland Flowers For Algernon by Daniel Keyes Forever by Judy Blume Grendel by John Champlin Gardner Halloween ABC by Eve Merriam Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone by J.K. Rowling Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets by J.K. Rowling Harry Potter and the Prizoner of Azkaban by J.K. Rowling Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire by J.K. Rowling Have to Go by Robert Munsch Heather Has Two Mommies by Leslea Newman How to Eat Fried Worms by Thomas Rockwell Huckleberry Finn by Mark Twain I Know Why the Caged Bird Sings by Maya Angelou Impressions edited by Jack Booth In the Night Kitchen by Maurice Sendak It's Okay if You Don't Love Me by Norma Klein James and the Giant Peach by Roald Dahl Lady Chatterley's Lover by D.H. Lawrence Leaves of Grass by Walt Whitman Little Red Riding Hood by Jacob and Wilhelm Grimm Lord of the Flies by William Golding Love is One of the Choices by Norma Klein Lysistrata by Aristophanes More Scary Stories in the Dark by Alvin Schwartz My Brother Sam Is Dead by James Lincoln Collier and Christopher Collier My House by Nikki Giovanni My Friend Flicka by Mary O'Hara Night Chills by Dean Koontz Of Mice and Men by John Steinbeck On My Honor by Marion Dane Bauer One Day in The Life of Ivan Denisovich by Alexander Solzhenitsyn One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest by Ken Kesey One Hundred Years of Solitude by Gabriel Garcia Marquez Ordinary People by Judith Guest Our Bodies, Ourselves by Boston Women's Health Collective Prince of Tides by Pat Conroy Revolting Rhymes by Roald Dahl Scary Stories 3: More Tales to Chill Your Bones by Alvin Schwartz Scary Stories in the Dark by Alvin Schwartz Separate Peace by John Knowles Silas Marner by George Eliot Slaughterhouse-Five by Kurt Vonnegut, Jr. ?? Swimming Upstream, Slowly by Melissa Clark Tarzan of the Apes by Edgar Rice Burroughs The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn by Mark Twain The Adventures of Tom Sawyer by Mark Twain The Bastard by John Jakes The Catcher in the Rye by J.D. Salinger The Chocolate War by Robert Cormier The Color Purple by Alice Walker The Devil's Alternative by Frederick Forsyth The Figure in the Shadows by John Bellairs The Grapes of Wrath by John Steinbeck The Great Gilly Hopkins by Katherine Paterson The Handmaid's Tale by Margaret Atwood The Headless Cupid by Zilpha Snyder The Learning Tree by Gordon Parks The Living Bible by William C. Bower The Merchant of Venice by William Shakespeare The New Teenage Body Book by Kathy McCoy and Charles Wibbelsman The Pigman by Paul Zindel The Seduction of Peter S. by Lawrence Sanders The Shining by Stephen King The Witches by Roald Dahl The Witches of Worm by Zilpha Snyder Then Again, Maybe I Won't by Judy Blume To Kill A Mockingbird by Harper Lee Twelfth Night by William Shakespeare Webster's Ninth New Collegiate Dictionary by the Merrium-Webster Editorial Staff Witches, Pumpkins, and Grinning Ghosts: The Story of the Halloween Symbols by Edna Barth? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames Mon Sep 8 21:45:53 2008 From: jforjames (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2008 21:45:53 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Wall Street shuns Fannie & Freddie, favors Emily Message-ID: <8CAE034EE2029B1-1734-2A41@FWM-D18.sysops.aol.com> http://online.wsj.com/article/SB121883343091845417.html Emily's Ambassador The reclusive Dickinson had a worldly mentor and friend By BILL CHRISTOPHERSEN August 16, 2008; Page W6 White Heat By Brenda Wineapple Knopf, 416 pages, $27.95 ?? "Parting is all we know of heaven / And all we need of hell." Who but Emily Dickinson would hijack the meter of the hymnal ("Our God, our help in ages past / And hope for years to come") to doubt the afterlife? Gnomic and subversive, her poems are shots of triple-distilled whiskey that jolt going down, then radiate, leaving us wide-eyed and slightly fuddled. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Rsgwynn1 Mon Sep 8 22:21:04 2008 From: Rsgwynn1 (Rsgwynn1 at cs.com) Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2008 22:21:04 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Sarah Palin's library from hell Message-ID: In a message dated 9/8/2008 8:41:19 PM Central Daylight Time, jforjames at aol.com writes: > > I'm sure most of you have seen this in your inbox. Poets must be given pause > by fthe act that Shakespeare, Boccaccio ('This poetry, which ignorant > triflers cast aside, is a form of glowing and exquisite invention...'), Chaucer, > Whitman are our vernerable representatives. While Roald Dahl and Nikki Giovanni > are about the only contemporaries raising the mercury to F 451. Leslea > Newman is poet laureate of Northmampton MA. Her children's book, Heather Has Two > Mommies, made the light-'em-up list. But most comtemporary poetry books can't > stoke a fundamentalist fire... > > > >> >> A Clockwork Orange by Anthony Burgess >> A Wrinkle in Time by Madeleine L'Engle >> Annie on My Mind by Nancy Garden >> As I Lay Dying by William Faulkner >> Blubber by Judy Blume >> Brave New World by Aldous Huxley >> Bridge to Terabithia by Katherine Paterson >> Canterbury Tales by Chaucer >> Carrie by Stephen King >> Catch-22 by Joseph Heller >> Christine by Stephen King >> Confessions by Jean-Jacques Rousseau >> Cujo by Stephen King >> Curses, Hexes, and Spells by Daniel Cohen >> Daddy's Roommate by Michael Willhoite >> Day No Pigs Would Die by Robert Peck >> Death of a Salesman by Arthur Miller >> Decameron by Boccaccio >> East of Eden by John Steinbeck >> Fallen Angels by Walter Myers >> Fanny Hill (Memoirs of a Woman of Pleasure) by John Cleland >> Flowers For Algernon by Daniel Keyes >> Forever by Judy Blume >> Grendel by John Champlin Gardner >> Halloween ABC by Eve Merriam >> Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone by J.K. Rowling >> Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets by J.K. Rowling >> Harry Potter and the Prizoner of Azkaban by J.K. Rowling >> Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire by J.K. Rowling >> Have to Go by Robert Munsch >> Heather Has Two Mommies by Leslea Newman >> How to Eat Fried Worms by Thomas Rockwell >> Huckleberry Finn by Mark Twain >> I Know Why the Caged Bird Sings by Maya Angelou >> Impressions edited by Jack Booth >> In the Night Kitchen by Maurice Sendak >> It's Okay if You Don't Love Me by Norma Klein >> James and the Giant Peach by Roald Dahl >> Lady Chatterley's Lover by D.H. Lawrence >> Leaves of Grass by Walt Whitman >> Little Red Riding Hood by Jacob and Wilhelm Grimm >> Lord of the Flies by William Golding >> Love is One of the Choices by Norma Klein >> Lysistrata by Aristophanes >> More Scary Stories in the Dark by Alvin Schwartz >> My Brother Sam Is Dead by James Lincoln Collier and Christopher >> Collier >> My House by Nikki Giovanni >> My Friend Flicka by Mary O'Hara >> Night Chills by Dean Koontz >> Of Mice and Men by John Steinbeck >> On My Honor by Marion Dane Bauer >> One Day in The Life of Ivan Denisovich by Alexander Solzhenitsyn >> One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest by Ken Kesey >> One Hundred Years of Solitude by Gabriel Garcia Marquez >> Ordinary People by Judith Guest >> Our Bodies, Ourselves by Boston Women's Health Collective >> Prince of Tides by Pat Conroy >> Revolting Rhymes by Roald Dahl >> Scary Stories 3: More Tales to Chill Your Bones by Alvin Schwartz >> Scary Stories in the Dark by Alvin Schwartz >> Separate Peace by John Knowles >> Silas Marner by George Eliot >> Slaughterhouse-Five by Kurt Vonnegut, Jr. >> Swimming Upstream, Slowly by Melissa Clark >> Tarzan of the Apes by Edgar Rice Burroughs >> The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn by Mark Twain >> The Adventures of Tom Sawyer by Mark Twain >> The Bastard by John Jakes >> The Catcher in the Rye by J.D. Salinger >> The Chocolate War by Robert Cormier >> The Color Purple by Alice Walker >> The Devil's Alternative by Frederick Forsyth >> The Figure in the Shadows by John Bellairs >> The Grapes of Wrath by John Steinbeck >> The Great Gilly Hopkins by Katherine Paterson >> The Handmaid's Tale by Margaret Atwood >> The Headless Cupid by Zilpha Snyder >> The Learning Tree by Gordon Parks >> The Living Bible by William C. Bower >> The Merchant of Venice by William Shakespeare >> The New Teenage Body Book by Kathy McCoy and Charles Wibbelsman >> The Pigman by Paul Zindel >> The Seduction of Peter S. by Lawrence Sanders >> The Shining by Stephen King >> The Witches by Roald Dahl >> The Witches of Worm by Zilpha Snyder >> Then Again, Maybe I Won't by Judy Blume >> To Kill A Mockingbird by Harper Lee >> Twelfth Night by William Shakespeare >> Webster's Ninth New Collegiate Dictionary by the Merrium-Webster >> Editorial Staff >> Witches, Pumpkins, and Grinning Ghosts: The Story of the Halloween >> Symbols by Edna Barth >> > James, you should really google these things before posting them. This list was shown to be unrelated to Sarah Palin several days ago. Please check snopes.com. It's true that she and the local librarian had a run-in, but not over this list of books, several of which weren't even published in 1996. Sam -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From asurkont Tue Sep 9 01:36:26 2008 From: asurkont (Amanda Surkont) Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2008 01:36:26 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Sarah Palin's library from hell In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Coming out of lurk mode. I am fairly well read on Sarah Palin, for reasons that have nothing to do with politics, so would like to add something to this. In the course of Sarah's employment, she asked the local librarian, what the policy was on the restriction of library materials because resident(s) had asked this question. Sarah did not tell the librarian to ban books nor did she order any books removed from the shelf. This list is bogus. She also asked the librarian if she was directed to restrict library materials, if she would do so. This is very different than telling her to ban books. It is a discussion of policy. As I pointed out on another list, the town of Wasilla might as well be another country to most of us. Small rural towns, even in the lower 48, have their own rules, most of which are unspoken. When you live there you are just expected to know them. In Sarah's case in this particular incident, it was totally taken out of context. And I suspect from all I have read on this, that policy was vague. The librarian supposedly did not have this discussion upon her hire, which frankly would be unusual in any rural town when a librarian is hired. Remember, that the librarian serves at the pleasure of the locals. If policy had already been set, and that policy was to restrict library materials, then Sarah would have been totally justified in questioning whether the librarian was doing the job she was hired to do. And this has nothing at all to do with whether Palin believes in censorship or not. Sometimes we are just doing the job we are paid to do. It is then our choice to decide if our own value system aligns. best to all, manda On Mon, 08 Sep 2008 22:21:04 -0400, wrote: > In a message dated 9/8/2008 8:41:19 PM Central Daylight Time, > jforjames at aol.com writes: >> >> I'm sure most of you have seen this in your inbox. Poets must be given >> pause >> by fthe act that Shakespeare, Boccaccio ('This poetry, which ignorant >> triflers cast aside, is a form of glowing and exquisite invention...'), >> Chaucer, >> Whitman are our vernerable representatives. While Roald Dahl and Nikki >> Giovanni >> are about the only contemporaries raising the mercury to F 451. Leslea >> Newman is poet laureate of Northmampton MA. Her children's book, >> Heather Has Two >> Mommies, made the light-'em-up list. But most comtemporary poetry books >> can't >> stoke a fundamentalist fire... >> >> >> >> >>> A Clockwork Orange by Anthony Burgess >>> A Wrinkle in Time by Madeleine L'Engle >>> Annie on My Mind by Nancy Garden >>> As I Lay Dying by William Faulkner >>> Blubber by Judy Blume >>> Brave New World by Aldous Huxley >>> Bridge to Terabithia by Katherine Paterson >>> Canterbury Tales by Chaucer >>> Carrie by Stephen King >>> Catch-22 by Joseph Heller >>> Christine by Stephen King >>> Confessions by Jean-Jacques Rousseau >>> Cujo by Stephen King >>> Curses, Hexes, and Spells by Daniel Cohen >>> Daddy's Roommate by Michael Willhoite >>> Day No Pigs Would Die by Robert Peck >>> Death of a Salesman by Arthur Miller >>> Decameron by Boccaccio >>> East of Eden by John Steinbeck >>> Fallen Angels by Walter Myers >>> Fanny Hill (Memoirs of a Woman of Pleasure) by John Cleland >>> Flowers For Algernon by Daniel Keyes >>> Forever by Judy Blume >>> Grendel by John Champlin Gardner >>> Halloween ABC by Eve Merriam >>> Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone by J.K. Rowling >>> Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets by J.K. Rowling >>> Harry Potter and the Prizoner of Azkaban by J.K. Rowling >>> Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire by J.K. Rowling >>> Have to Go by Robert Munsch >>> Heather Has Two Mommies by Leslea Newman >>> How to Eat Fried Worms by Thomas Rockwell >>> Huckleberry Finn by Mark Twain >>> I Know Why the Caged Bird Sings by Maya Angelou >>> Impressions edited by Jack Booth >>> In the Night Kitchen by Maurice Sendak >>> It's Okay if You Don't Love Me by Norma Klein >>> James and the Giant Peach by Roald Dahl >>> Lady Chatterley's Lover by D.H. Lawrence >>> Leaves of Grass by Walt Whitman >>> Little Red Riding Hood by Jacob and Wilhelm Grimm >>> Lord of the Flies by William Golding >>> Love is One of the Choices by Norma Klein >>> Lysistrata by Aristophanes >>> More Scary Stories in the Dark by Alvin Schwartz >>> My Brother Sam Is Dead by James Lincoln Collier and Christopher >>> Collier >>> My House by Nikki Giovanni >>> My Friend Flicka by Mary O'Hara >>> Night Chills by Dean Koontz >>> Of Mice and Men by John Steinbeck >>> On My Honor by Marion Dane Bauer >>> One Day in The Life of Ivan Denisovich by Alexander Solzhenitsyn >>> One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest by Ken Kesey >>> One Hundred Years of Solitude by Gabriel Garcia Marquez >>> Ordinary People by Judith Guest >>> Our Bodies, Ourselves by Boston Women's Health Collective >>> Prince of Tides by Pat Conroy >>> Revolting Rhymes by Roald Dahl >>> Scary Stories 3: More Tales to Chill Your Bones by Alvin Schwartz >>> Scary Stories in the Dark by Alvin Schwartz >>> Separate Peace by John Knowles >>> Silas Marner by George Eliot >>> Slaughterhouse-Five by Kurt Vonnegut, Jr. >>> Swimming Upstream, Slowly by Melissa Clark >>> Tarzan of the Apes by Edgar Rice Burroughs >>> The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn by Mark Twain >>> The Adventures of Tom Sawyer by Mark Twain >>> The Bastard by John Jakes >>> The Catcher in the Rye by J.D. Salinger >>> The Chocolate War by Robert Cormier >>> The Color Purple by Alice Walker >>> The Devil's Alternative by Frederick Forsyth >>> The Figure in the Shadows by John Bellairs >>> The Grapes of Wrath by John Steinbeck >>> The Great Gilly Hopkins by Katherine Paterson >>> The Handmaid's Tale by Margaret Atwood >>> The Headless Cupid by Zilpha Snyder >>> The Learning Tree by Gordon Parks >>> The Living Bible by William C. Bower >>> The Merchant of Venice by William Shakespeare >>> The New Teenage Body Book by Kathy McCoy and Charles Wibbelsman >>> The Pigman by Paul Zindel >>> The Seduction of Peter S. by Lawrence Sanders >>> The Shining by Stephen King >>> The Witches by Roald Dahl >>> The Witches of Worm by Zilpha Snyder >>> Then Again, Maybe I Won't by Judy Blume >>> To Kill A Mockingbird by Harper Lee >>> Twelfth Night by William Shakespeare >>> Webster's Ninth New Collegiate Dictionary by the Merrium-Webster >>> Editorial Staff >>> Witches, Pumpkins, and Grinning Ghosts: The Story of the Halloween >>> Symbols by Edna Barth >>> >> > James, you should really google these things before posting them. This > list > was shown to be unrelated to Sarah Palin several days ago. Please check > snopes.com. It's true that she and the local librarian had a run-in, > but not over > this list of books, several of which weren't even published in 1996. > > Sam From anny.ballardini Tue Sep 9 03:26:00 2008 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2008 09:26:00 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Update: the Poets' Corner Message-ID: <4b65c2d70809090026i5df06031r93e7de51c014513e@mail.gmail.com> Poetry is the great art of constructing transcendental health. Hence the poet is the transcendental physician. [122] *Novalis, **Pollen and Fragments,* translated by Arthur Versluis (Phanes Press, 1989) Forwarded by James Finnegan and archived under What is poetry? *New Poets* * * *rob mclennan * * http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=Content&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=291 * * * *Eric Elshtain * * http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=Content&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=292 * * * *Hank Lazer * * http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=Content&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=293 * * * *Christopher Flynn * * http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=Content&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=294 * * * *Nico Vassilakis * * http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=Content&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=295 * * * *Jessica Fiorini * * http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=Content&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=296 * * * *J.P. Dancing Bear * * http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=Content&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=297 * * * *Meg Withers * * http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=Content&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=298 * * * *Susana Gardner * * http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=Content&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=299 * * * *Br. Tom Murphy * * http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=Content&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=300 * * * *Jordan Stempleman * * http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=Content&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=301 * * * *Edward Mycue * * http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=Content&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=302 * * * *Jennifer Stewart * * http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=Content&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=303 * * * *Hazel Smith * * http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=Content&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=304 * * * *Zo? Skoulding * * http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=Content&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=305 * * * *New Work by already Featured Poets* * * *Alan Sondheim:* fragment http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=2353 while now new emanents move, submerged http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=2354 who are you doing it with http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=2355 moss http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=2417 *Carol Novak* PICNIC http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=2364 *Tad Richards* And his continuous poetic thriller/saga : situations http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=Content&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=67 *Daniel Zimmerman* reality Czech http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=2385 *Gregory Vincent St. Thomasino* 3 Poems http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=2386 The Logoclasody Manifesto http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=2387 *David Bircumshaw* August the 6th http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=2388 Mr W.S '68 http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=2389 *Didi Menendez* Bob Griese Was Cute http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=2400 Speed http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=2401 Pulling Out the Weeds http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=2402 His Left Eye http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=2403 * * * * *Under Poets on Poets* *Jon Corelis' Hippolytos by Euripides* is on the Poets' Corner in its new revised version, see the link here: http://www.fieralingue.it/documenti/hippolytos.pdf *Katherine Durham Oldmixon* translates her poem Spanish Plums into Spanish http://www.fieralingue.it/modules/poetsonpoets/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=240 Translated into Italian by my (AB) *Michele Pierri* and his Anthology, edited by his son *Giuseppe Pierri,* translated by me (AB): http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetsonpoets&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=82 With my best wishes, Anny Ballardini -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Rsgwynn1 Tue Sep 9 09:37:29 2008 From: Rsgwynn1 (Rsgwynn1 at cs.com) Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2008 09:37:29 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Sarah Palin's library from hell Message-ID: http://www.snopes.com/politics/palin/bannedbooks.asp -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Rsgwynn1 Tue Sep 9 09:58:55 2008 From: Rsgwynn1 (Rsgwynn1 at cs.com) Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2008 09:58:55 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Sarah Palin's library from hell Message-ID: http://www.newsweek.com/id/157986/page/1 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mandolin Tue Sep 9 10:21:02 2008 From: mandolin (Michael Snider) Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2008 10:21:02 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Sarah Palin's library from hell In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Palin's scary enough without sharing silly (and fairly obvious) lies about her. Let that be her party's trick. Juan Cole, in today's Salon (http://www.salon.com/opinion/feature/2008/09/09/palin_fundamentalist ) has a good start, as long as one remembers that fundamentalist does not equal terrorist: "What's the difference between Palin and a Muslim fundamentalist? Lipstick." And he makes the case. From jbalizsprince Tue Sep 9 10:29:44 2008 From: jbalizsprince (Judy Prince) Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2008 10:29:44 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Sarah Palin's library from hell In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7db1d01b0809090729p2eee7e2fvea067aed3c41f878@mail.gmail.com> The _Newsweek_ article's bereft of primary sources and quotations taken from them, Sam. Primary sources, as written in the first URLed article you gave today, are quotations from the librarian herself. Getting further at The Truth of the "book-banning" situation may be impossible, as you can imagine. It sounds as if, at the least, Sarah Palin inquired of the librarian how she would react if asked by Palin to have books removed from the library. What motivated her to ask the question? Is there a list of offended readers that she was speaking on behalf of? Was there a local civic meeting during which a debate about "ban-able" books raged? Was one of Sarah's children offended by a particular book or books in the library? Was she representing a church or religious organisation? Was it part of a list of questions she asked the librarian or others under her purview? You see where I'm going with this. We hold few basic rights more dear than that which allows us to read what we will. You can, then, guess how demoralising it is to think of a "heartbeat from the Presidency" potential-elect, as an elected official, having broached the subject of banning books. Judy 2008/9/9 > http://www.newsweek.com/id/157986/page/1 > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Rsgwynn1 Tue Sep 9 11:04:05 2008 From: Rsgwynn1 (Rsgwynn1 at cs.com) Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2008 11:04:05 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Sarah Palin's library from hell Message-ID: Uh, Judy, did you read the whole article? I've pasted the sources at the end of it below. FYI, www.factcheck.org also has an article on some of the dissimulations Palin made in her acceptance speech. I'm not very familiar with factcheck, but it does seem to be nonpartisan. Here's the original url: http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/sliming_palin.html Sam The _Newsweek_ article's bereft of primary sources and quotations taken from them, Sam. Primary sources, as written in the first URLed article you gave today, are quotations from the librarian herself. Getting further at The Truth of the "book-banning" situation may be impossible, as you can imagine. It sounds as if, at the least, Sarah Palin inquired of the librarian how she would react if asked by Palin to have books removed from the library. What motivated her to ask the question? Is there a list of offended readers that she was speaking on behalf of? Was there a local civic meeting during which a debate about "ban-able" books raged? Was one of Sarah's children offended by a particular book or books in the library? Was she representing a church or religious organisation? Was it part of a list of questions she asked the librarian or others under her purview? You see where I'm going with this. We hold few basic rights more dear than that which allows us to read what we will. You can, then, guess how demoralising it is to think of a "heartbeat from the Presidency" potential-elect, as an elected official, having broached the subject of banning books. Judy Sources Sutton, Anne. "Governor signs revamped education package into law." Anchorage Daily News, 28 Mar. 2008. Holland, Megan. "Intensive needs funding examined." Anchorage Daily News, 12 Jan. 2008. Cavanagh, Sean. "Alaska Legislators Overhaul Funding." Education Week, 29 Apr. 2008. Hawkins, John. "This Is The Sarah Palin Bikini Shot You Are Looking For And, No, It's Not Real." Right Wing News, 2 Sept. 2008. Godel, Addison. "elizabeth - american flag bikini rifle." Posted on flickr Web site, accessed 8 Sept. 2008. Joling, Dan. "Palin has not pushed creation science as governor." The Associated Press, 3 Sept. 2008. Hayes, Christopher. "Sarah Palin, Buchananite." The Nation "Capitolism" Web site, 29 Aug. 2008. Palin, Sarah. "Letters from the People." Anchorage Daily News. 26 July 1999; 5B. The Associated Press: "Forbes sets Alaska leadership team," 7 Aug 1999. Kizzia, Tom. "'Creation science' enters the race." Anchorage Daily News, 27 Oct. 2006. Paulson, Michael. "Sarah Palin on faith, life and creation." The Boston Globe, 29 Aug. 2008. Tapper, Jake. "Another AIP Official Says Palin Was at 1994 Convention." ABCNews.com, 2 Sept. 2008. Tapper, Jake. "Members of 'Fringe' Alaskan Independence Party Incorrectly Say Palin Was a Member in 90s." ABCNews.Com, 1Sept. 2008. Komarnitsky, S.J. "Wasilla Keeps Librarian, But Police Chief Is Out." 1 February 1997. The Anchorage Daily News, 8 Sept. 2008. Stuart, Paul. "FROM THE ARCHIVE: Palin: Library Censorship Inquiries 'Rhetorical'." 18 December 1996. Mat-Su Valley Frontiersman, 8 Sept. 2008. White, Rindi. "Palin Asked City Librarian Whether She'd Ban Books." 7 September 2008. The Chicago Tribune, 8 Sept. 2008. ? 2008 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames Tue Sep 9 11:52:47 2008 From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2008 11:52:47 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Sarah Palin's library from hell Message-ID: I appreciate the correction, Sam and others. Often I do snopes the various internet 'news' that comes my way. I was prompted to email this list to NewPoetry due to my reaction to this list's lack of poetry, primarily, and whether we, as poets, should take note that more poetry is not controversial enough to make the list? I imagine, out there in the public sphere, there are some similar 'legit lists' of books that some or another fundamentalist group has proposed banning from schools or public libraries, and those real lists, too, are light on poetry, I'd venture. Finnegan **************Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. (http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mandolin Tue Sep 9 11:53:59 2008 From: mandolin (Michael Snider) Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2008 11:53:59 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Sarah Palin's library from hell In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sep 9, 2008, at 11:04 AM, Rsgwynn1 at cs.com wrote: > Uh, Judy, did you read the whole article? I've pasted the sources > at the end of it below. FYI, www.factcheck.org also has an article > on some of the dissimulations Palin made in her acceptance speech. > I'm not very familiar with factcheck, but it does seem to be > nonpartisan. > > Here's the original url: > > http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/sliming_palin.html > > Sam > > > The _Newsweek_ article's bereft of primary sources and quotations > taken from them, Sam. > > Primary sources, as written in the first URLed article you gave > today, are quotations from the librarian herself. > > > Getting further at The Truth of the "book-banning" situation may be > impossible, as you can imagine. > > > It sounds as if, at the least, Sarah Palin inquired of the librarian > how she would react if asked by Palin to have books removed from the > library. > > > What motivated her to ask the question? Is there a list of offended > readers that she was speaking on behalf of? Was there a local civic > meeting during which a debate about "ban-able" books raged? Was one > of Sarah's children offended by a particular book or books in the > library? Was she representing a church or religious organisation? > Was it part of a list of questions she asked the librarian or others > under her purview? > > You see where I'm going with this. We hold few basic rights more > dear than that which allows us to read what we will. You can, then, > guess how demoralising it is to think of a "heartbeat from the > Presidency" potential-elect, as an elected official, having broached > the subject of banning books. > > > Judy Here ( http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/03/us/politics/03wasilla.html?_r=1&sq=Palin%27s%20Start%20in%20Alaska&st=cse&oref=slogin&scp=1&pagewanted=print) is more from the NYT: "Shortly after becoming mayor, former city officials and Wasilla residents said, Ms. Palin approached the town librarian about the possibility of banning some books, though she never followed through and it was unclear which books or passages were in question. Anne Kilkenny, a Democrat who said she attended every City Council meeting in Ms. Palin?s first year in office, said Ms. Palin brought up the idea of banning some books at one meeting. ?They were somehow morally or socially objectionable to her,? Ms. Kilkenny said. The librarian, Mary Ellen Emmons, pledged to ?resist all efforts at censorship,? Ms. Kilkenny recalled. Ms. Palin fired Ms. Emmons shortly after taking office but changed course after residents made a strong show of support. Ms. Emmons, who left her job and Wasilla a couple of years later, declined to comment for this article." From Rsgwynn1 Tue Sep 9 12:23:15 2008 From: Rsgwynn1 (Rsgwynn1 at cs.com) Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2008 12:23:15 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Sarah Palin's library from hell Message-ID: In a message dated 9/9/2008 10:53:24 AM Central Daylight Time, JforJames at aol.com writes: > > I appreciate the correction, Sam and others. Often I do snopes the various > internet 'news' that comes my way. > I was prompted to email this list to NewPoetry due to my reaction to this > list's lack of poetry, primarily, and whether we, as poets, should take note > that more poetry is not controversial enough to make the list? I imagine, out > there in the public sphere, there are some similar 'legit lists' of books > that some or another fundamentalist group has proposed banning from schools or > public libraries, and those real lists, too, are light on poetry, I'd venture. > Finnegan > This is a real list, btw. It's a list of books that have been banned in the U. S. at one time or another. "Banned" in this sense probably includes school curricula and libraries as well as public libraries. Howl, as far as I know, is the only book of poetry to have come under serious scrutiny, and the case was won. That was a long time ago. As I recall, City Lights had some books sent so they'd go through customs in S. F. to test the case. Anybody know for sure? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jjeffreymail Tue Sep 9 12:41:48 2008 From: jjeffreymail (John Jeffrey) Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2008 09:41:48 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Sarah Palin's library from hell Message-ID: <928348.92265.qm@web54107.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Then again--even though we preach that it's a basic right--ALL public libraries and schools practice censorship to some point. The only real argument is where do we draw the line. I've looked but haven't yet found any porn in the public libraries I've visited. And it's not because no one would borrow those books. Nor do I remember Mrs. Klein, back in third grade, saying, "Settle down kids; it's story time. Today I'll read the next chapter in our book, "Gang Bang Junkies # 8". Nor did she read us any KKK pamphlets. And Miss Parker, in fourth grade, never read us anything about the glory and virgins in becoming a suicide bomber. Nor were Hitler's views ever discussed without judgment, as equal to the views of, say, Gandhi and Einstein and Shakespeare. All were censored without one yelp from the masses, the right, or the left. John Jeffrey ----- Original Message ---- From: Michael Snider To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views" Sent: Tuesday, September 9, 2008 11:53:59 AM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Re: Sarah Palin's library from hell On Sep 9, 2008, at 11:04 AM, Rsgwynn1 at cs.com wrote: > Uh, Judy, did you read the whole article? I've pasted the sources > at the end of it below. FYI, www.factcheck.org also has an article > on some of the dissimulations Palin made in her acceptance speech. > I'm not very familiar with factcheck, but it does seem to be > nonpartisan. > > Here's the original url: > > http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/sliming_palin.html > > Sam > > > The _Newsweek_ article's bereft of primary sources and quotations > taken from them, Sam. > > Primary sources, as written in the first URLed article you gave > today, are quotations from the librarian herself. > > > Getting further at The Truth of the "book-banning" situation may be > impossible, as you can imagine. > > > It sounds as if, at the least, Sarah Palin inquired of the librarian > how she would react if asked by Palin to have books removed from the > library. > > > What motivated her to ask the question? Is there a list of offended > readers that she was speaking on behalf of? Was there a local civic > meeting during which a debate about "ban-able" books raged? Was one > of Sarah's children offended by a particular book or books in the > library? Was she representing a church or religious organisation? > Was it part of a list of questions she asked the librarian or others > under her purview? > > You see where I'm going with this. We hold few basic rights more > dear than that which allows us to read what we will. You can, then, > guess how demoralising it is to think of a "heartbeat from the > Presidency" potential-elect, as an elected official, having broached > the subject of banning books. > > > Judy Here ( http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/03/us/politics/03wasilla.html?_r=1&sq=Palin%27s%20Start%20in%20Alaska&st=cse&oref=slogin&scp=1&pagewanted=print) is more from the NYT: "Shortly after becoming mayor, former city officials and Wasilla residents said, Ms. Palin approached the town librarian about the possibility of banning some books, though she never followed through and it was unclear which books or passages were in question. Anne Kilkenny, a Democrat who said she attended every City Council meeting in Ms. Palin?s first year in office, said Ms. Palin brought up the idea of banning some books at one meeting. ?They were somehow morally or socially objectionable to her,? Ms. Kilkenny said. The librarian, Mary Ellen Emmons, pledged to ?resist all efforts at censorship,? Ms. Kilkenny recalled. Ms. Palin fired Ms. Emmons shortly after taking office but changed course after residents made a strong show of support. Ms. Emmons, who left her job and Wasilla a couple of years later, declined to comment for this article." _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From AlMaginnes Tue Sep 9 12:45:26 2008 From: AlMaginnes (AlMaginnes at aol.com) Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2008 12:45:26 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Sarah Palin's library from hell Message-ID: I keep hoping something I write will be banned. I figure then I can give up writing poems and teaching and travel around the country giving talks on the First Amendment. **************Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. (http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jbalizsprince Tue Sep 9 15:46:03 2008 From: jbalizsprince (Judy Prince) Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2008 15:46:03 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Sarah Palin's library from hell In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7db1d01b0809091246h13be7ecat768ad53c04187962@mail.gmail.com> Thanks, Sam. I had only gone to your NEWSWEEK URL which, I now see, having checked the URL you give below, is a huge slash of the factcheck.orgarticle. [Why do I keep reading it as "fatcheck"?] ;-) To continue, having digested the factcheck article, I see that on the issues of book-banning and employee-intimidations alone, Sarah Palin's a Very Scary and Dangerous politician. Makes me shiver----and makes me angry. If she is not fully vetted by journalists, Democratic campaigners, some of "her own" Republicans, and those of us who can still read, write and speak, then I fear for our safety......and that is not an exaggeration. Judy 2008/9/9 > Uh, Judy, did you read the* whole* article? I've pasted the sources at > the end of it below. FYI, www.factcheck.org also has an article on some > of the dissimulations Palin made in her acceptance speech. I'm not very > familiar with factcheck, but it does seem to be nonpartisan. > > Here's the original url: > > http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/sliming_palin.html > > Sam > * > > The _Newsweek_ article's bereft of primary sources and quotations taken > from them, Sam. > > Primary sources, as written in the first URLed article you gave today, are > quotations from the librarian herself. > > > Getting further at The Truth of the "book-banning" situation may be > impossible, as you can imagine. > > > It sounds as if, at the least, Sarah Palin inquired of the librarian how > she would react if asked by Palin to have books removed from the library. > > > What motivated her to ask the question? Is there a list of offended readers > that she was speaking on behalf of? Was there a local civic meeting during > which a debate about "ban-able" books raged? Was one of Sarah's children > offended by a particular book or books in the library? Was she representing > a church or religious organisation? Was it part of a list of questions she > asked the librarian or others under her purview? > > You see where I'm going with this. We hold few basic rights more dear than > that which allows us to read what we will. You can, then, guess how > demoralising it is to think of a "heartbeat from the Presidency" > potential-elect, as an elected official, having broached the subject of > banning books. > > > Judy > > > > > > > > > Sources > *Sutton, Anne. "Governor signs revamped education package into law." > Anchorage Daily News, 28 Mar. 2008. > > Holland, Megan. "Intensive needs funding examined." Anchorage Daily News, > 12 Jan. 2008. > > Cavanagh, Sean. "Alaska Legislators Overhaul Funding." Education Week, 29 > Apr. 2008. > > Hawkins, John. "This Is The Sarah Palin Bikini Shot You Are Looking For > And, No, It's Not Real." Right Wing News, 2 Sept. 2008. > > Godel, Addison. "elizabeth - american flag bikini rifle." Posted on flickr > Web site, accessed 8 Sept. 2008. > > Joling, Dan. "Palin has not pushed creation science as governor." The > Associated Press, 3 Sept. 2008. > > Hayes, Christopher. "Sarah Palin, Buchananite." The Nation "Capitolism" Web > site, 29 Aug. 2008. > > Palin, Sarah. "Letters from the People." Anchorage Daily News. 26 July > 1999; 5B. > > The Associated Press: "Forbes sets Alaska leadership team," 7 Aug 1999. > > Kizzia, Tom. "'Creation science' enters the race." Anchorage Daily News, 27 > Oct. 2006. > > Paulson, Michael. "Sarah Palin on faith, life and creation." The Boston > Globe, 29 Aug. 2008. > > Tapper, Jake. "Another AIP Official Says Palin Was at 1994 Convention." > ABCNews.com, 2 Sept. 2008. > > Tapper, Jake. "Members of 'Fringe' Alaskan Independence Party Incorrectly > Say Palin Was a Member in 90s." ABCNews.Com, 1Sept. 2008. > > Komarnitsky, S.J. "Wasilla Keeps Librarian, But Police Chief Is Out." 1 > February 1997. The Anchorage Daily News, 8 Sept. 2008. > > Stuart, Paul. "FROM THE ARCHIVE: Palin: Library Censorship Inquiries > 'Rhetorical'." 18 December 1996. Mat-Su Valley Frontiersman, 8 Sept. 2008. > > White, Rindi. "Palin Asked City Librarian Whether She'd Ban Books." 7 > September 2008. The Chicago Tribune, 8 Sept. 2008. > > (c) 2008 > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman Tue Sep 9 13:43:47 2008 From: bobgrumman (Bob Grumman) Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2008 12:43:47 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Sarah Palin's library from hell In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <48C6B5D3.8040603@nut-n-but.net> > > I was prompted to email this list to NewPoetry due to my reaction to > this list's lack of poetry, primarily, and whether we, as > poets, should take note that more poetry is not controversial enough > to make the list? I didn't wonder that no poetry was on the list but that books like Tropic of Capricorn were not. Then I realized that the library probably didn't carry any really controversial books, maybe not even Huckleberry Finn. Same is probably true of poetry. I can't believe the list, frankly, but even if Palin really was out to rid the library of these titles, she wouldn't be doing anything worse than the left-wingers forcing out politically-incorrect books. --Bob G. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From amyhappens Wed Sep 10 11:49:24 2008 From: amyhappens (amy king) Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2008 08:49:24 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] New / Recent Message-ID: <653159.85249.qm@web83305.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> New & recent on the blog -- http://amyking.org/ -- Patrick Herron takes a stab at the game David Lynch responds to ... MilkMag's up and coming Lakoff on Palin A Mendi & Keith Obadike release, Document Gay Wedding Cards The Academy Gets Video Audio from UPENN Michael Jackson and Robert Burns Upcoming event information Here -- http://amyking.org/ Be well, Amy _______ Movies With Poems http://amyking.wordpress.com/2008/08/11/movies-with-poetry/ Poems To Do http://amyking.wordpress.com/2008/06/12/poetry-exercises-wanted/ Amy's Alias http://amyking.org/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini Wed Sep 10 16:41:45 2008 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2008 22:41:45 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] technical question Message-ID: <4b65c2d70809101341g68635f81q5ebf8f711653ede@mail.gmail.com> I receive other people's messages but not mine, is there anybody who can remember what I have to do? Thank you, Anny -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Rsgwynn1 Wed Sep 10 16:44:34 2008 From: Rsgwynn1 (Rsgwynn1 at cs.com) Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2008 16:44:34 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] technical question Message-ID: In a message dated 9/10/2008 3:42:30 PM Central Daylight Time, anny.ballardini at gmail.com writes: > > I receive other people's messages but not mine, is there anybody who can > remember what I have to do? > Thank you, > Anny > > Put on Fats Waller singing "I'm Gonna Sit Right Down and Write Myself a Letter"? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From oedipa Wed Sep 10 16:48:57 2008 From: oedipa (karen) Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2008 16:48:57 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] technical question In-Reply-To: <4b65c2d70809101341g68635f81q5ebf8f711653ede@mail.gmail.com> References: <4b65c2d70809101341g68635f81q5ebf8f711653ede@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: It's because you're using gmail which organizes by conversation, not individual emails. I'd try copying yourself or adding your email address after the New Poetry address in the To field. It should come to you then. On Wed, Sep 10, 2008 at 4:41 PM, Anny Ballardini wrote: > I receive other people's messages but not mine, is there anybody who can > remember what I have to do? > Thank you, > Anny > > > -- > Anny Ballardini > http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ > http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome > http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html > I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing > star! > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini Wed Sep 10 17:17:33 2008 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2008 23:17:33 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] technical question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4b65c2d70809101417p567bc95dqcf80c2e95c99e2d6@mail.gmail.com> Thanks Karen, but I do receive the mails I send to other lists. I don't think it is a problem connected with gmail. Thanks Sam, that might be the very best thing to do, gonna sit Right down On Wed, Sep 10, 2008 at 10:44 PM, wrote: > In a message dated 9/10/2008 3:42:30 PM Central Daylight Time, > anny.ballardini at gmail.com writes: > > > I receive other people's messages but not mine, is there anybody who can > remember what I have to do? > Thank you, > Anny > > > Put on Fats Waller singing "I'm Gonna Sit Right Down and Write Myself a > Letter"? > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lsgrimes Wed Sep 10 17:27:21 2008 From: lsgrimes (Linda Sue Grimes) Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2008 16:27:21 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] technical question References: <4b65c2d70809101417p567bc95dqcf80c2e95c99e2d6@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Anny, You can change your options, including getting copies of your messages, at http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/options/new-poetry/ You just have to log in. Hope this helps. lsg ----- Original Message ----- From: Anny Ballardini To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &,Views Sent: Wednesday, September 10, 2008 4:17 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] technical question Thanks Karen, but I do receive the mails I send to other lists. I don't think it is a problem connected with gmail. Thanks Sam, that might be the very best thing to do, gonna sit Right down On Wed, Sep 10, 2008 at 10:44 PM, wrote: In a message dated 9/10/2008 3:42:30 PM Central Daylight Time, anny.ballardini at gmail.com writes: I receive other people's messages but not mine, is there anybody who can remember what I have to do? Thank you, Anny Put on Fats Waller singing "I'm Gonna Sit Right Down and Write Myself a Letter"? _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From oedipa Wed Sep 10 17:30:15 2008 From: oedipa (karen) Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2008 17:30:15 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] technical question In-Reply-To: <4b65c2d70809101417p567bc95dqcf80c2e95c99e2d6@mail.gmail.com> References: <4b65c2d70809101417p567bc95dqcf80c2e95c99e2d6@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Perhaps it has to do with the Mailman configuration on VT's side then. On Wed, Sep 10, 2008 at 5:17 PM, Anny Ballardini wrote: > Thanks Karen, but I do receive the mails I send to other lists. I don't > think it is a problem connected with gmail. > Thanks Sam, that might be the very best thing to do, gonna sit Right > down > > > On Wed, Sep 10, 2008 at 10:44 PM, wrote: > >> In a message dated 9/10/2008 3:42:30 PM Central Daylight Time, >> anny.ballardini at gmail.com writes: >> >> >> I receive other people's messages but not mine, is there anybody who can >> remember what I have to do? >> Thank you, >> Anny >> >> >> Put on Fats Waller singing "I'm Gonna Sit Right Down and Write Myself a >> Letter"? >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > > > -- > Anny Ballardini > http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ > http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome > http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html > I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing > star! > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wwmorgan Wed Sep 10 22:32:24 2008 From: wwmorgan (Bill Morgan) Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2008 21:32:24 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Finding Robert Mezey Message-ID: <005101c913b6$a058f590$e10ae0b0$@edu> Dear New Poetry- Can anyone tell me how to reach Bob Mezey by email? His Pomona address no longer works. Off-list replies, please, to wwmorgan at ilstu.edu Cheers, Bill Morgan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard Thu Sep 11 09:37:46 2008 From: halvard (Halvard Johnson) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 08:37:46 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] 9/11+ Message-ID: <0223C80B-2F70-4669-89BF-E5D07822DB78@earthlink.net> These messages are as they were when they were sent out by email to friends and family outside New York on 9/11 and the days just after. They're still online at our website. Hal == 9/11 AM Just a brief message-- Lynda and I are okay--stunned and getting our news from TV (mostly CNN and NY1) as I'm sure you are. Our main concern is that our daughter-in-law Maggie works for a law firm very near the WTC (the firm is at Battery Park Plaza and I *think* that's some blocks south of the WTC). At any rate, we haven't heard from her yet, and haven't been able to contact her firm, or her husband Zach (Lynda's younger son), who works out on Long Island. Westbeth, where we live, is well north of Canal St., and, while from our livingroom window we can see a mountain of smoke, the wind seems to be taking the smoke and debris to the southeast. We haven't been down to street level as yet today, a day when normally I would have been taking a PATH train under the Hudson to travel to Newark, NJ, where I teach two classes on Tuesdays and Fridays. In short, we're well, and we're hoping that Maggie is too. Hal 9/11 PM The first we knew of it this morning was when Ana Doina called from New Jersey and asked Lynda if we were okay. Lynda (I think--I was upstairs taking a shower, getting ready to go off to Newark for my two Tuesday classes) said, "Sure, why? Who is this?" Ana said, "Look out your window." And Lynda looked out and saw great billows of smoke rising into the sky. Our windows on that side of the livingroom look south, but the WLC is blocked from view by an arm of the building we live in. At night, when we're going to bed we can see the skinny communications tower at the very top of . . . I guess it's WTC1. Just that, and its warning lights--lights intended to warn off aircraft, strange to say. Most of the day, we sat transfixed by the images on the TV screen, one or the other of us jumping up every now and then to check the billowing mountain of smoke downtown. The first phone call was from Lynda's mother in Florida. It wasn't until a bit after 5:00 in the afternoon that we ventured out of the apartment, first to go up to the roof about five floors above us. Waiting for the elevator, we checked out the large window near it that until today had a clear view of the WTC in all but the foggiest, cloudiest weathers. Just smoke, today.A handful of people were up there, looking off to the south, where the smoke was still rising, and where a sudden rush of stronger billowing may have betokened the collapse of Bldg. 7, which occurred, I think, about that time. It was warm and sunny on the roof. The late-afternoon sun was sparkling on the Hudson, just across West Street from our building. One of those gorgeous late-summer evenings--except for the large smudge of smoke. I remembered living as a kid in an apartment house at 7th Ave. and 14th St., where for a few weeks during WW2 we could lean out the dining room window and see the black smoke rising from the French liner Normandy burning where it lay on its side at its dock at the foot of 14th St. There aren't many docks along the Hudson anymore. The riverfront is becoming people space, with miles of pathways for joggers, and skaters, and bikers. And there were a lot of them down there as we looked down from the roof. Dog-walkers too. Yes, the dogs still need to be walked here in New York. So, we decided to go down and walk for a bit ourselves. West Street is usually crowded with traffic, especially on weekdays, early in the morning and in the late afternoon. It's what the West-side Highway becomes here downtown. Today it was free of trucks, cars, taxis. Police cars and emergency vehicles were almost all we saw. But in the park and along the pathways used by joggers and bikers--lots of folks walking along, riding along, just standing or sitting staring south. Some people heading uptown, a couple with face masks hanging around their necks. We got down to Pier 40, just below Morton Street before coming to the police barrier, where two officers were turning people back. A block or two below, lots of emergency vehicles, ambulances, flashing lights, and beyond them the mountain of smoke where the WTC had been until this morning. Against the darkness of the smoke the white and green tower of the Woolworth Building seemed brighter and more elaborate than ever. Coming back up, we walked along Hudson Street (what 8th Ave. becomes south of Bleecker Street) and the scene was really strange--almost no traffic, some of the sidestreets barricaded (to secure the precinct house on W. 10th Street, a patrolman told me). Shops (almost all dark, with their security gates down and locked) were closed, as were most restaurants (all but a couple Chinese places). Even the White Horse was closed. At one point, a convoy of twenty ambulances went by, speeding north, with wailing police cars fore and aft. The ambulances I saw were from places as far away as Cherry Hill, New Jersey, just east of Philly. When emergency vehicles weren't passing by, the street had that eerie Sunday-morning sort of stillness to it. What wasn't there was what we saw--the taxis, the trucks, the twin towers (margarine sticks, I've enjoyed calling them) of the WTC, the business as usual. When we got home there were more phone calls and more TV. We learned from Timo (Lynda's son in Chicago) that Zach and Maggie had been heading this morning for Century 21, a big store right across the street from the WTC, to get Maggie a pair of shoes. Later, Zach called again and told us that he and Maggie had picked up people walking back into Brooklyn from Manhattan and ferried them home in their car. Folks on TV started wondering whether there wasn't some failure of intelligence involved in all this. Duh, double-duh. Hal "That's the way the world goes, and it's not going well." --Bertolt Brecht 9/11 +1 The wind's changed, and tonight we're getting something of the taste and smell of the smoke, which plumes north-northeast through the clear evening sky, Mars standing high over New York Harbor to the south. We were out only briefly, to walk a couple blocks south on West Street and cross over to the Hudson River Park, where we stood for a few minutes looking down at the WTC area, where some of the standing structures were silhouetted by emergency lights against the great white cloud arising behind them. As we had seen shortly before on the BBC, people along West Street farther south were cheering and applauding emergency workers--both those coming north, and those relieving them going south. This morning, there was no New York Times outside our apartment door as there usually is, so after a cup of coffee or two, we headed out to find a paper. The Bus Stop, our local breakfast joint, already had a line as we passed, and we soon found that no newspapers had been delivered to stores or curbside boxes below 14th Street. And the streets were empty of traffic--a few emergency vehicles, but mostly walkers and people on bikes. Most stores were locked and shuttered. At 8th Ave. and 14th. St., we passed through the police barricades and headed north, above 14th. St. Non-essential vehicles were prohibited below 14th St. Basically, we walked up 8th to 23rd St. and then east to 6th Ave. and then north to 42nd St. We bought a Post, and then an Observer, and then a Wall Street Journal, and then a News--but no NYT. So, we walked back west along 42nd St., thinking we'd find one easily at the Port Authority Bus Terminal, forgetting that the bridges and tunnels were closed, and thus the buses wouldn't be running. The PA was closed and barracaded, so we started back down 8th Ave. We found our Times at Penn Station, two levels down below street level, at a Hudson News Stand where the guy at the cash register said there were no more Times at the same moment another guy was unloaded a new batch onto the floor. Lynda, our newspapers, and I then continued on down 8th Ave. until we decided, weirdly, to stop in at the Utopia luncheonette at the corner of 8th and 27th, the same place we'd stopped on our walk downtown the very first time I'd trained up to Baltimore to see her some twelve years or more ago now. Somehow, it was just a rest stop for us now, and not a bit nostalgic--well, maybe just a smidgen. So, we ate breakfast, with our unread newspapers on the chair beside me, and with pop-songs and Dubya on the PA-ed radio. I had only five bucks in my wallet, so the waiter and I tried two different credit cards before we found one for which the telephone call would go through. People were moving everywhere we went, moving uptown, downtown, like us with newspapers. Not in Penn Station, though. There folks were standing in long lines for tickets, or sprawled in the waiting room (only for ticketed passengers). At the 14th St. barrier, police were checking IDs of people wanting to go farther south, into the Village. A woman in blue was asking two gals and a guy if they had IDs showing they lived there. Lynda and I just walked past, and were nearly home. The line outside the Bus Stop was even longer. Back in the apartment, two messages on the machine told each of us separately that the Eugene Lang College of the New School University would be closed today, the building being used as a clearinghouse/information center for people who couldn't find people. So, once again we wavered between CNN and NY1 on the cable-connected TV. The little one without cable brought in only Channel 2, the local CBS station. All the other New York stations were off the air (though not off cable), since their transmitters had gone down yesterday with the WTC. Hal "Flotsam, please, and a side order of jetsam." 9/11 +2 Here's what the morning commute in the NYC area looks like today. This website has pages for places all over the country, so have a look. This URL is specifically for the NYC area, but click around and you'll find others. http://newyork.metrocommute.com/ My Tuesday-Friday commute is by PATH train to Newark. I catch the Journal Square train at Christopher Street, just before it goes under the Hudson River and into New Jersey. "There is now PATH service from 33rd Street to Newark/Hoboken every 5-10 minutes, but there is no service to Exchange Place in Jersey City. You must transfer to the light rail at Pavonia Avenue. The World Trade Center line will be out for perhaps several years, or more." At Journal Square in Jersey City, I usually transfer to the Newark train, which comes/came out of the WTC. Just outside Jersey City, the train comes out of its tunnel and travels above ground the rest of the way into Penn Station in Newark. Much of the way, the WTC towers were once visible beyond the unseen Hudson. Tomorrow I'll see a different landscape. Hal "Between the manifold splendors of anger, I watch a door slam like the corsage of a flower or the erasers of schoolchildren." --Andre Breton 9/11 +30 A couple people lately have asked if we're returning to anything like normality here in New York, so I though I'd send one brief (and final) message on this to you. I think you're already aware of New York's situation-- the clogged streets (improved by the ban on one-passenger cars on weekday mornings), the downtown streets still closed, the revenue loss, the Yankees' loss last night, etc., so I won't deal with much of that. This morning Lynda and I had to move our car out of its curbside parking spot for a few hours so the street could be clean--or rather so the city could once again pick up some revenue by ticketing and/or towing cars that don't get moved for street-cleaning. That, according to the morning New York Times, amounts to $250,000 or so in income for the city each day. So, alternate-side- of-the-street parking is back for the first time here in Manhattan since 9/11. The city needs the money. After dealing with the car, we stopped by the community room downstairs to cast our votes in the Green/Ferrer run-off in NYC's mayoral contest--that's the second time we've voted since 9/11. Who says small-d democracy is dead? Not much else. On 60 Minutes II the other night, Charles Grodin (the weeknight Andy Rooney) did a bit on the various aches and pains that many of all of us have been dealing with since 9/11. Lynda's got no voice today. She's been working her way through the same set of symptoms I've just about finished with--sore throat, headache, sneezes, sniffles, mucous running amok, laryngitis, and so on. I threw my back out (getting up from a couch, it seemed) on the Thursday after 9/11, and that took about a week to work itself out, but then I didn't try hanging upside down from a horizontal bar, as Grodin did. So, Lynda's napping now, and I'm doing phone duty. In general then, all's well. Life goes on. How's by you? Hal "We don't serve fine wine in half-pints, buddy." --Robert Ashley From jforjames Thu Sep 11 13:34:51 2008 From: jforjames (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 13:34:51 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Reginald Shepherd RIP Message-ID: <8CAE24BD448B471-1370-D60@FWM-D06.sysops.aol.com> http://www.poetryfoundation.org/harriet/ Seemed like a good person and poet, thinker about poetry. http://reginaldshepherd.blogspot.com/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cstroffo Thu Sep 11 14:28:50 2008 From: cstroffo (Chris Stroffolino) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 11:28:50 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Reginald Shepherd RIP In-Reply-To: <8CAE24BD448B471-1370-D60@FWM-D06.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CAE24BD448B471-1370-D60@FWM-D06.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: yeah On Sep 11, 2008, at 10:34 AM, jforjames at aol.com wrote: > http://www.poetryfoundation.org/harriet/ > > Seemed like a good person and poet, thinker about poetry. > > http://reginaldshepherd.blogspot.com/ > Looking for spoilers and reviews on the new TV season? Get AOL's > ultimate guide to fall TV. > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From amyhappens Thu Sep 11 22:44:21 2008 From: amyhappens (amy king) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 19:44:21 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] This Friday! September 12th! At 7pm! Message-ID: <526642.64412.qm@web83311.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> This Friday! September 12th! At 7pm! ? with Amy King, Leslie Anne Mcilroy with guitarist Don Bertschman & Nellie Bridge! ? Our Fate is in Their Hands! ? Amy King is the author of I?m the Man Who Loves You and Antidotes for an Alibi, both from Blazevox Books, and most recently, Kiss Me with the Mouth of Your Country (Dusie Press). She is the moderator for the Poetics List and the Women?s Poetry Listserv, and teaches English and Creative Writing at Nassau Community College. She is currently editing an anthology, The Urban Poetic, forthcoming from Factory School. ? Leslie Anne Mcilroy won the 2001 Word Press Poetry Prize for her full-length collection Rare Space and the 1997 Slipstream Poetry Chapbook Prize for her chapbook Gravel. Her second full-length book, Liquid Like This, was published by Word Press in July 2008. Leslie?s daughter, Silas, is a poetic six. Don Bertschman is a musician and writer who studied with Coleman Barks at the University of Georgia. Leslie and Don live in Pittsburgh, PA where they work as copywriters. ? Nellie Bridge grew up in Washington State, and has lived in New York for the last seven years. Her poems have appeared in Rattapallax, KNOCK, Painted Bride Quarterly, New Delta Review, and other places. She lives in Brooklyn and works at the Authors Guild. ? Only at Pete?s Candy Store 709 Lorimer Street, Williamsburg, Brooklyn (718) 302-3770 ? ?L? to Lorimer, ?G? to Metropolitan. ? FREE! ? Visit http://www.multifariousarray.blogspot.com/ for links to their work and email me for more information. Sommer Browning, Host http://www.petescandystore.com/bigpoetry/index.html _______ Movies With Poems http://amyking.wordpress.com/2008/08/11/movies-with-poetry/ Poems To Do http://amyking.wordpress.com/2008/06/12/poetry-exercises-wanted/ Amy's Alias http://amyking.org/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini Fri Sep 12 08:35:02 2008 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2008 14:35:02 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] from the Writer's Almanac Message-ID: <4b65c2d70809120535i7bf03e77n80d0161f6477366a@mail.gmail.com> LISTEN poetry readings by Charles Bukowski poetry readings have to be some of the saddest damned things ever, the gathering of the clansmen and clanladies, week after week, month after month, year after year, getting old together, reading on to tiny gatherings, still hoping their genius will be discovered, making tapes together, discs together, sweating for applause they read basically to and for each other, they can't find a New York publisher or one within miles, but they read on and on in the poetry holes of America, never daunted, never considering the possibility that their talent might be thin, almost invisible, they read on and on before their mothers, their sisters, their husbands, their wives, their friends, the other poets and the handful of idiots who have wandered in from nowhere. I am ashamed for them, I am ashamed that they have to bolster each other, I am ashamed for their lisping egos, their lack of guts. if these are our creators, please, please give me something else: a drunken plumber at a bowling alley, a prelim boy in a four rounder, a jock guiding his horse through along the rail, a bartender on last call, a waitress pouring me a coffee, a drunk sleeping in a deserted doorway, a dog munching a dry bone, an elephant's fart in a circus tent, a 6 p.m. freeway crush, the mailman telling a dirty joke anything anything but these. "poetry readings," by Charles Bukowski from *Bone Palace Ballet*buy now) (c) Ecco, 2002. Reprinted with permission. ( -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames Fri Sep 12 12:01:47 2008 From: jforjames (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2008 12:01:47 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] NEA Chairman Dana Gioia to depart Message-ID: <8CAE307FEA85712-1AF8-5A8@FWM-D40.sysops.aol.com> http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/news/arts/la-et-nea12-2008sep12,0,5530398.story NEA Chairman Dana Gioia to depart The Sonoma County poet will leave the arts endowment he's headed for six years in January to return to his Muse. By Diane Haithman, Los Angeles Times Staff Writer September 12, 2008 National Endowment for the Arts Chairman Dana Gioia -- also a Sonoma County poet and literary critic -- announced today that he will step down from his post as head of the federal arts agency in January. Gioia, 57, plans to divide his time between writing and a position at the Aspen Institute as the institute's first director of the Harman-Eisner Program in the Arts. While Gioia's current term would have continued through December 2010, the Bush appointee told The Times: "The reason I'm leaving is to be a poet. I've given up six years of my creative life for public service, and I'm not allowed to publish while I'm in office. I shall never have a more exciting job than the NEA, but a poet needs a little boredom." -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini Fri Sep 12 13:52:10 2008 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2008 19:52:10 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Forwarding from Mark Young, Editor of Otoliths Press Message-ID: <4b65c2d70809121052q1c99161aj547f326efb765701@mail.gmail.com> When the original emailout for this September septet of new books from Otoliths reached four pages, I decided it was time to compromise, to send just the basic details out, & post the extended play with full blurbs & jpegs of the front covers to my blog, gamma ways . The direct URLs for the books are given below. The full catalog can be found at The Otoliths Storefront . * * Mark Young * * *E-X-C-H-A-N-G-E-V-A-L-U-E-S: The Final XIV Interviews + One* Tom Beckett (curator) 372 pages ISBN: 978-0-9805096-1-8 $19.95 + p&h URL: http://www.lulu.com/content/3918209 *The Evolution of Mirrors* Martin Edmond 108 pages ISBN: 978-0-9805096-6-3 $12.50 + p&h URL: http://www.lulu.com/content/3372034 *When You Bit...* Adam Fieled 72 pages ISBN: 978-0-9805096-3-2 $12.50 + p&h URL: http://www.lulu.com/content/3100247 *Longfellow Memoranda* Geof Huth 148 pages ISBN: 978-0-9804541-9-2 $13.50 + p&h URL: http://www.lulu.com/content/2753783 *Novaless* Nicholas Manning 160 pages ISBN: 978-0-9805096-2-5 $13.50 + p&h URL: http://www.lulu.com/content/3101286 *Tales From The Hinterland* Caleb Puckett 60 pages Cover design by Mary Ellen Derwis & Joe Balaz ISBN: 978-0-9805096-4-9 $10.00 + p&h URL: http://www.lulu.com/content/3100307 *RED* Marilyn R. Rosenberg 56 pages, full color, 9" wide x 7" high, coil bound ISBN: 978-0-9805096-5-6 $19.95 + p&h URL: http://www.lulu.com/content/3314953 -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini Fri Sep 12 13:53:40 2008 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2008 19:53:40 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Space Solar Power Message-ID: <4b65c2d70809121053q7f58e074r876692e5cd62e896@mail.gmail.com> The United States and the world need to find new sources of clean energy. Space Solar Power gathers energy from sunlight in space and transmits it wirelessly to Earth. Space solar power can solve our energy and greenhouse gas emissions problems. Not just help, not just take a step in the right direction, but *solve*. Space solar power can provide large quantities of energy to each and every person on Earth with very little environmental impact. Read more here by the National Space Society. . -- Posted By Anny Ballardini to NarcissusWorksat 9/12/2008 07:42:00 PM -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames Fri Sep 12 16:28:41 2008 From: jforjames (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2008 16:28:41 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] sh... Message-ID: <8CAE32D47E5E385-290-471@webmail-db02.sysops.aol.com> I realized today, and I guess phonetic patterns?are something we're supposed to notice, that the last names of three poets who died this year all started with 'sh'... Shepherd, Reginald Shirley, Aleda Shinder, Jason -- Finnegan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini Fri Sep 12 16:46:10 2008 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2008 22:46:10 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] sh... In-Reply-To: <8CAE32D47E5E385-290-471@webmail-db02.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CAE32D47E5E385-290-471@webmail-db02.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <4b65c2d70809121346l5e867687s53550f5a6505a373@mail.gmail.com> I was noticing something similar on a poetry mailing list, how names naturally attracted the response of other names that had phonetic similarities or a number of same letters in the same collocation. An example: Brent Bechtel received an enthusiastic response by Ana Buigues and Anny Ballardini even though my reading was completely different from Ana's. It has to do with Mathematics, and it validates the theory that our universe is structured on numbers. What does our Bob Grumman say? On Fri, Sep 12, 2008 at 10:28 PM, wrote: > I realized today, and I guess phonetic patterns are something we're > supposed to notice, that the last > names of three poets who died this year all started with 'sh'... > > Shepherd, Reginald > Shirley, Aleda > Shinder, Jason > -- > Finnegan > ------------------------------ > Looking for spoilers and reviews on the new TV season? Get AOL's ultimate > guide to fall TV > . > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rog3r.day Fri Sep 12 18:10:38 2008 From: rog3r.day (Roger Day) Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2008 23:10:38 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] And gladly wolde they lerne and gladly . . . In-Reply-To: References: <787583.10266.qm@web83309.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I have been a navigator; I'm now a computer programmer. Well, build manager and hacker. Umm. Let's just say I sit at a keyboard and do stuff for a living. I've sat on the boards of poetry charities in the past. I fold paper and draw in my spare time. And program. And play stuff. Roger On Sun, Sep 7, 2008 at 8:59 PM, Skip Fox wrote: > Do most of us teach for a living? (I do.) > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- My Stuff: http://www.badstep.net/ "I began to warm and chill to objects and their fields" Nick Cave & The Bad Seeds From jforjames Fri Sep 12 18:25:41 2008 From: jforjames (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2008 18:25:41 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Professor Ian Jack Message-ID: <8CAE33DA0198C49-7A0-903@WEBMAIL-DF12.sysops.aol.com> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/obituaries/2826322/Professor-Ian-Jack.html Professor Ian Jack, who died on September 3 aged 84, held a chair in English Literature at Cambridge from 1976 to 1989; he made notable contributions in his field both as the editor of meticulously-researched editions of original works of poetry and literature and as a scholar who illuminated the way in which writers planned and shaped their work, how they responded to the intellectual currents and events of their time, and their relationship with the audiences for which they wrote. He began his career as a young academic with Augustan Satire: Intention and Idiom in English Poetry 1660-1750 (1952), in which he examined the various "kinds" of satiric poetry ? by such figures as Dryden, Pope and Johnson ? in order to reveal their meaning and function within the social and political setting of their time and thus rescue them from modern accusations of irrelevance and sterility. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rog3r.day Fri Sep 12 18:30:23 2008 From: rog3r.day (Roger Day) Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2008 23:30:23 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Sarah Palin's library from hell In-Reply-To: <48C6B5D3.8040603@nut-n-but.net> References: <48C6B5D3.8040603@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: The original list is an index of the political correctness of the right, protecting kinder, kultur, kirche; or their version of it. The political correctness of the right is as harsh, and as banally stupid, if not harsher and yet more banally stupid, than the left. They also seem to get away with it more, judging by the books on the list. In this country the politcal correctness of the right goes along with doffing yr cap to authority and kissing the hand of the zombie corpse of the queen mum. Roger On Tue, Sep 9, 2008 at 6:43 PM, Bob Grumman wrote: > I was prompted to email this list to NewPoetry due to my reaction to > this list's lack of poetry, primarily, and whether we, as poets, should take > note that more poetry is not controversial enough to make the list? > > I didn't wonder that no poetry was on the list but that books like Tropic of > Capricorn were not. Then I realized that the library probably didn't carry > any really controversial books, maybe not even Huckleberry Finn. Same is > probably true of poetry. I can't believe the list, frankly, but even if > Palin really was out to rid the library of these titles, she wouldn't be > doing anything worse than the left-wingers forcing out politically-incorrect > books. > > --Bob G. > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- My Stuff: http://www.badstep.net/ "I began to warm and chill to objects and their fields" Nick Cave & The Bad Seeds From jbalizsprince Sat Sep 13 00:28:00 2008 From: jbalizsprince (Judy Prince) Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2008 00:28:00 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] from the Writer's Almanac In-Reply-To: <4b65c2d70809120535i7bf03e77n80d0161f6477366a@mail.gmail.com> References: <4b65c2d70809120535i7bf03e77n80d0161f6477366a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7db1d01b0809122128w1c957a14m10b9ebd6f618328e@mail.gmail.com> Thanks, Anny. Bukowski's an impossible poet to ignore, always entertaining with a twist. Can't recall the title, but one of his poems has a 'fan' say to him: "I write poetry like yours---only better." ;-) Re this poem, 'Listen', somehow I'm able to laugh out loud at most of this mirror....and know it's tragic in so many ways. But, really, as this List and others show, poetry's kept alive by Us---not really Them. Capiche? Judy 2008/9/12 Anny Ballardini > > LISTEN > > > poetry readings > > by Charles Bukowski > > poetry readings have to be some of the saddest > damned things ever, > the gathering of the clansmen and clanladies, > week after week, month after month, year > after year, > getting old together, > reading on to tiny gatherings, > still hoping their genius will be > discovered, > making tapes together, discs together, > sweating for applause > they read basically to and for > each other, > they can't find a New York publisher > or one > within miles, > but they read on and on > in the poetry holes of America, > never daunted, > never considering the possibility that > their talent might be > thin, almost invisible, > they read on and on > before their mothers, their sisters, their husbands, > their wives, their friends, the other poets > and the handful of idiots who have wandered > in > from nowhere. > > I am ashamed for them, > I am ashamed that they have to bolster each other, > I am ashamed for their lisping egos, > their lack of guts. > > if these are our creators, > please, please give me something else: > > a drunken plumber at a bowling alley, > a prelim boy in a four rounder, > a jock guiding his horse through along the > rail, > a bartender on last call, > a waitress pouring me a coffee, > a drunk sleeping in a deserted doorway, > a dog munching a dry bone, > an elephant's fart in a circus tent, > a 6 p.m. freeway crush, > the mailman telling a dirty joke > > anything > anything > but > these. > > "poetry readings," by Charles Bukowski from *Bone Palace Ballet*buy now) > (c) Ecco, 2002. Reprinted with permission. ( > > -- > Anny Ballardini > http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ > http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome > http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html > I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing > star! > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jeff.newberry Sat Sep 13 08:16:37 2008 From: jeff.newberry (Jeff Newberry) Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2008 08:16:37 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] National Endowment For The Arts Funds Construction Of $1.3 Billion Poem Message-ID: <731bb17a0809130516p7b82c99r812fb0330abb0816@mail.gmail.com> WASHINGTON?The National Endowment for the Arts announced Monday that it has begun construction on a $1.3 billion, 14-line lyric poem?its largest investment in the nation's aesthetic- industrial complex since the $850 million interpretive-dance budget of 1985. http://www.theonion.com/content/news/national_endowment_for_the_arts?utm_source=onion_rss_daily Gotta love *The Onion*. Dana Gioia's apparently been re-christened "Mark Barnes." Best, Jeff Newberry -- Blog: http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com Obama Myths: http://www.matthew25.org/paf/index.htm -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From AlMaginnes Sat Sep 13 08:21:36 2008 From: AlMaginnes (AlMaginnes at aol.com) Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2008 08:21:36 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] National Endowment For The Arts Funds Construction Of $1.3 B... Message-ID: For that kind of money you'd think they could erect a sestina. Damn pork barrel projects. **************Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. (http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cervantes.james Sat Sep 13 08:28:06 2008 From: cervantes.james (James Cervantes) Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2008 07:28:06 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] National Endowment For The Arts Funds Construction Of $1.3 B... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <648208b60809130528m41264553qfb8eb6d9977bba9c@mail.gmail.com> On Sat, Sep 13, 2008 at 7:21 AM, wrote: > For that kind of money you'd think they could erect a sestina. Damn pork > barrel projects. > Yeah. Who are these contractors, anyway? I could supply a period for a mere 1.5 million, and a slant rhyme for half the cost they're paying for the "owl/soul" fiasco. See. -- Jim ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning http://www.fieralingue.it/documenti/mr_bondo.pdf http://www.poetserv.org/jvc/home/index.html http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamescervantes/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini Sat Sep 13 09:14:47 2008 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2008 15:14:47 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] National Endowment For The Arts Funds Construction Of $1.3 B... In-Reply-To: <648208b60809130528m41264553qfb8eb6d9977bba9c@mail.gmail.com> References: <648208b60809130528m41264553qfb8eb6d9977bba9c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4b65c2d70809130614l20195928sb7254e4a3d2cec72@mail.gmail.com> I could sell all of my verses that are free online! On Sat, Sep 13, 2008 at 2:28 PM, James Cervantes wrote: > > > On Sat, Sep 13, 2008 at 7:21 AM, wrote: > >> For that kind of money you'd think they could erect a sestina. Damn pork >> barrel projects. >> > > Yeah. Who are these contractors, anyway? I could supply a period for a > mere 1.5 million, and a slant rhyme for half the cost they're paying for the > "owl/soul" fiasco. See. > > > -- Jim > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org > http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning > http://www.fieralingue.it/documenti/mr_bondo.pdf > http://www.poetserv.org/jvc/home/index.html > http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamescervantes/ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd Sat Sep 13 14:27:15 2008 From: grahamd (David Graham) Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2008 13:27:15 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Galveston Message-ID: <954AE960-5E1A-4A62-9907-F4390F9A5ED9@ripon.edu> Wasn't That A Mighty Storm Chorus Wasn't that a mighty storm Wasn't that a mighty storm in the morning, well Wasn't that a mighty storm That blew all the people away You know the year of 1900 Children, many years ago Death came howling on the ocean Death calls, you got to go Now Galveston had a seawall To keep the water down, and a High tide from the coean Spread the water over the town Chorus You know the trumpets gave them warning You'd better leave this place Now, no one thought of leaving 'Til death stared them in the face And the trains they all were loaded The people were all leaving town The trestle gave way to the water And the trains they went on down Chorus Rain it was a' falling Thunder began to roll Lightning flashed like hell fire The wind began to blow Death the cruel master When the wind to blow Rode in on a team of horses I cried,"Death, won't you let me go" Chorus Hey, now trees fell on the island And the houses give way Some they strained and drowned Some died in most every way And the sea began to rolling And the ships they could not stand And I heard a captain crying "God save a drowning man" Chorus Death your hands are clammy You got them on my knee You come and took my mother Won't you come back after me And the flood it took my neighbor Took my brother too I thought I heard my father calling And I watched my mother go Chorus You know the year of 1900 Children, many years ago Death came howling on the ocean Death calss, you got to go Chorus (Twice) --Traditional. This version as sung by Tom Rush on Nanci Griffith's record, Other Voices, Too. Elektra Records, 1998. ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.mac.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames Sat Sep 13 18:44:00 2008 From: jforjames (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2008 18:44:00 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] National Endowment For The Arts Funds Construction Of $1.3 Billion Poem In-Reply-To: <731bb17a0809130516p7b82c99r812fb0330abb0816@mail.gmail.com> References: <731bb17a0809130516p7b82c99r812fb0330abb0816@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <8CAE409598446A8-9BC-1EB0@mblk-d28.sysops.aol.com> It's really a bargain, when you think about it. One B-2 bomber cost us 1.5B, and we have more than one...although it's not clear how many we have. Stealth financials, need to know basis, and all that. Anyway I think we can afford one Lyric Colossus. Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: Jeff Newberry To: NewPoetry Sent: Sat, 13 Sep 2008 8:16 am Subject: [New-Poetry] National Endowment For The Arts Funds Construction Of $1.3 Billion Poem WASHINGTON?The National Endowment for the Arts announced Monday that it has begun construction on a $1.3 billion, 14-line lyric poem?its largest investment in the nation's aesthetic- industrial complex since the $850 million interpretive-dance budget of 1985. http://www.theonion.com/content/news/national_endowment_for_the_arts?utm_source=onion_rss_daily Gotta love The Onion.? Dana Gioia's apparently been re-christened "Mark Barnes." Best, Jeff Newberry -- Blog: http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com Obama Myths: http://www.matthew25.org/paf/index.htm _______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames Sat Sep 13 18:59:08 2008 From: jforjames (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2008 18:59:08 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] National Endowment For The Arts Funds Construction Of $1.3 Billion Poem In-Reply-To: <8CAE409598446A8-9BC-1EB0@mblk-d28.sysops.aol.com> References: <731bb17a0809130516p7b82c99r812fb0330abb0816@mail.gmail.com> <8CAE409598446A8-9BC-1EB0@mblk-d28.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <8CAE40B76906348-9BC-1F59@mblk-d28.sysops.aol.com> http://www.metacafe.com/watch/879913/b_2_bomber/ This what the 1.5B 'poem machine'?can do.?I'm afraid our Lyric Colossus may be a?bit like Ozymandias, still trying to givie orders amid the rubble and dust.. Finnge? -----Original Message----- From: jforjames at aol.com To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Sat, 13 Sep 2008 6:44 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] National Endowment For The Arts Funds Construction Of $1.3 Billion Poem It's really a bargain, when you think about it. One B-2 bomber cost us 1.5B, and we have more than one...although it's not clear how many we have. Stealth financials, need to know basis, and all that. Anyway I think we can afford one Lyric Colossus. Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: Jeff Newberry To: NewPoetry Sent: Sat, 13 Sep 2008 8:16 am Subject: [New-Poetry] National Endowment For The Arts Funds Construction Of $1.3 Billion Poem WASHINGTON?The National Endowment for the Arts announced Monday that it has begun construction on a $1.3 billion, 14-line lyric poem?its largest investment in the nation's aesthetic- industrial complex since the $850 million interpretive-dance budget of 1985. http://www.theonion.com/content/news/national_endowment_for_the_arts?utm_source=onion_rss_daily Gotta love The Onion.? Dana Gioia's apparently been re-christened "Mark Barnes." Best, Jeff Newberry -- Blog: http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com Obama Myths: http://www.matthew25.org/paf/index.htm _______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry at wiz .cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry Looking for spoilers and reviews on the new TV season? Get AOL's ultimate guide to fall TV. _______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman Sat Sep 13 20:54:26 2008 From: bobgrumman (Bob Grumman) Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2008 19:54:26 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] National Endowment For The Arts Funds ConstructionOf $1.3 Billion Poem In-Reply-To: <8CAE409598446A8-9BC-1EB0@mblk-d28.sysops.aol.com> References: <731bb17a0809130516p7b82c99r812fb0330abb0816@mail.gmail.com> <8CAE409598446A8-9BC-1EB0@mblk-d28.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <48CC60C2.6060603@nut-n-but.net> jforjames at aol.com wrote: > It's really a bargain, when you think about it. One B-2 bomber cost us > 1.5B, and we have more than one...although it's not clear how many we > have. Stealth financials, need to know basis, and all that. > Anyway I think we can afford one Lyric Colossus. > Finnegan > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Jeff Newberry > To: NewPoetry > Sent: Sat, 13 Sep 2008 8:16 am > Subject: [New-Poetry] National Endowment For The Arts Funds > Construction Of $1.3 Billion Poem > > WASHINGTON?The National Endowment for the Arts announced Monday that > it has begun construction on a $1.3 billion, 14-line lyric poem?its > largest investment in the nation's aesthetic- industrial complex since > the $850 million interpretive-dance budget of 1985. > > http://www.theonion.com/content/news/national_endowment_for_the_arts?utm_source=onion_rss_daily > > Gotta love /The Onion/. Dana Gioia's apparently been re-christened > "Mark Barnes." They aren't too good with numbers, though: 1.3 billion is greater than 850 million. --Bob G. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From amyhappens Sat Sep 13 22:25:24 2008 From: amyhappens (amy king) Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2008 19:25:24 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] More Sad News ... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <872082.97084.qm@web83313.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Geez.? First Reginald Shepherd and now David Foster Wallace -- what a week. David Foster Wallace http://www.latimes.com/news/obituaries/la-me-wallace14-2008sep14,0,246155.story Reginald Shepherd http://poetryfoundation.org/harriet/2008/09/reginald_shepherd_19632008.html His Blog -- http://reginaldshepherd.blogspot.com/ _______ Amy's Alias http://amyking.org/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard Sun Sep 14 16:16:59 2008 From: halvard (Halvard Johnson) Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2008 15:16:59 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Elegy Just in Case Message-ID: <342CDDEA-4D8D-4C89-849E-DA13A5F8452A@earthlink.net> Elegy Just in Case A public life is what he led. Baseball, not books, gave him ballast. A ball launched out of the Polo Grounds in 1951 lodged in his head, which fondles its curves and seams when there was nothing else worth thinking about. Holy relics of memory, taken down from the shelves, change hands quietly, among the finer calibrations of kinesthetic fervor. Mystery or metaphysics. Could you choose just one? Next to impossible, an over-the-shoulder catch on the centerfield track. No longer any need to say what might have happened, rolling down the drainpipe of history, truly lost for all time. Taking discontinuity for granted, he angled for the sidelines, watching it go, its generosity noticed only by those not blinded by the late afternoon sun. Over the fence, in his neighbor?s yard, hearing a strange sound, wondering what it was. Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at earthlink.net halvard at gmail.com http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini Sun Sep 14 17:23:01 2008 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2008 23:23:01 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Bob Dylan Message-ID: <4b65c2d70809141423h51cb6b01rc5888493ac6e38d7@mail.gmail.com> Soon on Kqed: *Bob Dylan, Artist* The program explores the poetry in Bob Dylan's songs and ponders what accounts for his staying power? * Today at 4:30pm * ** http://www.kqed.org/radio/ I won't be there, night time for me. -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tad Sun Sep 14 19:24:39 2008 From: tad (tad at opus40.org) Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2008 18:24:39 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Little Ashberys Message-ID: <55433.1221434679@opus40.org> Of the hundreds of openings in the city this fall, this one will be particularly distinctive. Because the artist is the pre-eminent American poet John Ashbery, making his solo debut as professional artist at 81, with a modest but polished exhibition of two dozen small collages. A couple of them date from his college years in the 1940s. Most are from the 1970s and were recently rediscovered tucked away in a shoebox. ?I lost those for a long time,? he says. ?Quite a few others got thrown out.? Several more are hot off his apartment work table. http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/14/arts/design/14cott.html?_r=1&oref=login [1] BODY { font-family:Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;font-size:12px; } Tad Richards www.opus40.org/tadrichards Links: ------ [1] http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/14/arts/design/14cott.html?_r=1&oref=login -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tad Sun Sep 14 20:06:51 2008 From: tad (tad at opus40.org) Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2008 19:06:51 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Bob Dylan Message-ID: <55808.1221437211@opus40.org> It was just half anhour. I was expecting more. BODY { font-family:Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;font-size:12px; } Tad Richards www.opus40.org/tadrichards On Sun 14/09/08 5:23 PM , "Anny Ballardini" anny.ballardini at gmail.com sent: Soon on Kqed: Bob Dylan, Artist The program explores the poetry in Bob Dylan's songs and ponders what accounts for his staying power? Today at 4:30pm http://www.kqed.org/radio/ [1] I won't be there, night time for me. -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ [2] http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome [3] http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html [4] I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Links: ------ [1] http://www.kqed.org/radio/ [2] http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ [3] http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome [4] http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini Mon Sep 15 09:15:52 2008 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2008 15:15:52 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Bob Dylan In-Reply-To: <55808.1221437211@opus40.org> References: <55808.1221437211@opus40.org> Message-ID: <4b65c2d70809150615r2b665d4ajb19890c36092c348@mail.gmail.com> I listened to it this morning, yes, a little limited I'd say. On Mon, Sep 15, 2008 at 2:06 AM, wrote: > It was just half anhour. I was expecting more. > > Tad Richards > www.opus40.org/tadrichards > > *On Sun 14/09/08 5:23 PM , "Anny Ballardini" anny.ballardini at gmail.comsent: > * > > Soon on Kqed: > > *Bob Dylan, Artist* > The program explores the poetry in Bob Dylan's songs and ponders what > accounts for his staying power? > * > Today at 4:30pm > * > > > ** > http://www.kqed.org/radio/ > > I won't be there, night time for me. > > -- > Anny Ballardini > http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ > http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome > http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html > I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing > star! > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini Mon Sep 15 09:16:17 2008 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2008 15:16:17 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Violence on Stage Message-ID: <4b65c2d70809150616w3a31f88taee640a3d19e3259@mail.gmail.com> *VIOLENCE ON STAGE* * * *III INTERNATIONAL CONFERENCE ON AMERICAN THEATRE AND DRAMA* * * *C?diz, May 27-29, 2009* Ever since the Greeks, drama and violence have rarely been far from one another, at least within the Western dramatic tradition. The staging of violence, apart from being a representation of one of the most powerful and recurrent of human traits, can also be a reflection of larger social and cultural forces. As a matter of fact, the existence and continuity of a nation such as the United States cannot be adequately explained without a study of the use/abuse/containment of violence and, among others, its representation on stage. Serious drama in America has resorted to literal or figurative violence to pass judgment on an unfair, violently repressive society; to denounce the self-deceiving drives of many individuals; to expose the brutalizing effects of traditional family patterns and the violent exclusion of (non-mainstream or otherwise) individuals from the American Dream; or to (violently) break with inherited theatrical forms and open up new avenues of artistic experimentation. We believe that an exploration of the role of violence in American theatre and drama will result in fruitful and fresh insights into a dramatic tradition which has rarely been approached from this angle. Among the specific issues which the conference hopes to address --always through their representation on the American stage-- are: - Theatrical theories of violence (Grotowski, Artaud, The Living Theatre,?). - The history of violence. Violence in history. - The aesthetics of violence. Theatrical strategies for the representation of violence. - Collateral effects: the violence of conflict as suffered by both the invader and the invaded, the winner and the loser, the soldier and the civilian. - Violence experienced (or inflicted on) those of other gender, racial, sexual groups. - Institutional, social and structural violence. - Violence in the workplace: abuse, mobbing, harassment, bullying. - Psychological abuse. The psychology of the abuser; the effect on the abused. Justification of the abuser. The abused as guilty. - Linguistic excess as violence. The strategy of silence. - Audience reaction to violence on stage. - The failure of the American Dream and the subsequent generation of violence. The conference will take place on May 27, 28 and 29, 2009, in C?diz, one of the oldest and most harmonious nicest cities in Europe (site of Phoenician and Roman ruins), situated in southern Spain and literally surrounded by the often violent but always suggestive ocean, in an environment propitious for scholarly reflection and the exchange of ideas. Across the C?diz bay lies the US Rota Military Base, a useful reminder of the kind of world we live in and the role of violence in it. The University of C?diz, with its upgraded technological infrastructure, is one of the most modern in all Spain and will prove an excellent venue for the conference. The city, on the other hand, boasts one of the mildest climates in Southern Europe and offers a rich cultural background and ample opportunities for leisure and recreation. Among the keynote speakers that will honor the conference are Paula Vogel, Cheryl Black, John Frick, and (to be confirmed) Bob Vorlicky. Those wishing to present a paper at the conference or organize a round-table discussion should send a 500-word abstract, in English, *by September 30, 2008, *to the following e-mail address: berceo at gmail.com Authors of accepted papers will receive confirmation of acceptance by *December 15, 2008. *The organizers intend to publish a volume of essays based on a selection of the papers presented at the conference. Authors will be duly informed of the style specifications for manuscript submission and the editors' expectations for such a volume. For upgraded information on the conference please visit www.violenceonstage.com Conference organizers: University of Cadiz, University of Seville, University of M?laga and the American Theatre and Drama Society (ATDS). -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From atelierjewelweed Mon Sep 15 09:46:01 2008 From: atelierjewelweed (Suzanne Burns) Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2008 09:46:01 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] A review of Linda Gregg's new book Message-ID: Sounds awfully good! I look forward to reading this: http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/la-ca-linda-gregg14-2008sep14,0,3281527.story I rather like the idea about using tarot cards to spur new poems-- Jack Spicer used to suggest that in his Magic Workshop as I recall. Cheers, Suzanne -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tad Mon Sep 15 09:57:58 2008 From: tad (tad at opus40.org) Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2008 08:57:58 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] A review of Linda Gregg's new book Message-ID: <1617.1221487078@opus40.org> Both Donald Justice and James Merrill have done similar things. I'm wondering what else we use to spur new poems. Here's an essay by a friend on the subject: http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/collage.html Tad Richards www.opus40.org/tadrichards On Mon 15/09/08 9:46 AM , "Suzanne Burns" atelierjewelweed at gmail.com sent: Sounds awfully good! I look forward to reading this: http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/la-ca-linda-gregg14-2008sep14,0,3281527.story [1] I rather like the idea about using tarot cards to spur new poems-- Jack Spicer used to suggest that in his Magic Workshop as I recall. Cheers, Suzanne Links: ------ [1] http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/la-ca-linda-gregg14-2008sep14,0,3281527.story -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd Mon Sep 15 12:18:25 2008 From: grahamd (David Graham) Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2008 11:18:25 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Spurring new poems In-Reply-To: <1617.1221487078@opus40.org> Message-ID: I'm not much for Tarot cards, Ouija boards, or Cage-like aleatory methods, but I am very fond of dumb exercises of my own. In my daily journal scribblings I'll often just give myself some ridiculous task, such as writing a page of description & narrative without any verbs, and off I go. Usually the result is junk, but most of what I write is junk anyway. Might as well have some fun. When I think of it, the most common trigger for me is probably a phrase that floats into my mind--captured out of thin air sometimes, but often enough glimpsed on my travels. Last year I saw a box outside the local American Legion hall with a sign that said "Deposit Used Flags Here." That will very likely be the title of a poem some day. . . . If you write that poem before I do I'll have to kill you. -------------- On 9/15/08 8:57 AM, "tad at opus40.org" wrote: > Both Donald Justice and James Merrill have done similar things. > > I'm wondering what else we use to spur new poems. > > Here's an essay by a friend on the subject: > > http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/collage.html > > > > Tad Richards > www.opus40.org/tadrichards > > On Mon 15/09/08 9:46 AM , "Suzanne Burns" atelierjewelweed at gmail.com sent: >> Sounds awfully good! I look forward to reading this: >> >> http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/la-ca-linda-gregg14-2008sep14,0,3281527. >> story >> >> I rather like the idea about using tarot cards to spur new poems-- Jack >> Spicer used to suggest that in his Magic Workshop as I recall. >> >> Cheers, >> >> Suzanne >> > ==================================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/About%20Me.html Poetry Library: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ==================================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jfq Mon Sep 15 12:26:54 2008 From: jfq (Jason Quackenbush) Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2008 09:26:54 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Spurring new poems In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5A14F3D6-5381-422D-9F2B-D034D90C96E4@myuw.net> I write a lot of lyric poetry, so sometimes i'll just go through the list of people i know in my head and if i haven't written something dedicated to them before or addressed to them, that'll get something going. On Sep 15, 2008, at 9:18 AM, David Graham wrote: > I'm not much for Tarot cards, Ouija boards, or Cage-like aleatory > methods, > but I am very fond of dumb exercises of my own. In my daily journal > scribblings I'll often just give myself some ridiculous task, such as > writing a page of description & narrative without any verbs, and > off I go. > Usually the result is junk, but most of what I write is junk > anyway. Might > as well have some fun. > > When I think of it, the most common trigger for me is probably a > phrase that > floats into my mind--captured out of thin air sometimes, but often > enough > glimpsed on my travels. Last year I saw a box outside the local > American > Legion hall with a sign that said "Deposit Used Flags Here." That > will very > likely be the title of a poem some day. . . . > > If you write that poem before I do I'll have to kill you. > > > -------------- > On 9/15/08 8:57 AM, "tad at opus40.org" wrote: > >> Both Donald Justice and James Merrill have done similar things. >> >> I'm wondering what else we use to spur new poems. >> >> Here's an essay by a friend on the subject: >> >> http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/collage.html >> >> >> >> Tad Richards >> www.opus40.org/tadrichards >> >> On Mon 15/09/08 9:46 AM , "Suzanne Burns" >> atelierjewelweed at gmail.com sent: >>> Sounds awfully good! I look forward to reading this: >>> >>> http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/la-ca-linda- >>> gregg14-2008sep14,0,3281527. >>> story >>> >>> I rather like the idea about using tarot cards to spur new >>> poems-- Jack >>> Spicer used to suggest that in his Magic Workshop as I recall. >>> >>> Cheers, >>> >>> Suzanne >>> >> > > ==================================================== > David Graham > grahamd at ripon.edu > Home Page: > http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/About%20Me.html > > Poetry Library: > http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html > ==================================================== > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry Jason Quackenbush jfq at myuw.net From by.tjmst Mon Sep 15 13:23:44 2008 From: by.tjmst (BY TJMST) Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2008 18:23:44 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: New-Poetry Digest, Vol 51, Issue 19 In-Reply-To: <200809141600.m8EG04nK022909@wiz.cath.vt.edu> References: <200809141600.m8EG04nK022909@wiz.cath.vt.edu> Message-ID: <5908b9b20809151023n7c1b389dla3e57d6e1d217f9a@mail.gmail.com> fantastic.what a kingly adornment and welcome, tacit decor for poetry and the arts specifically.It's only the USA that can fund such a gargantuan project to hero-worship and immortalise poets -and the timelessness of prophesies that re unfolding as unacknowledged legislators across the yearsi.What's the exact age of man ?I mean since creation -either we go by the theory of evolution or by the evidently poetic biblical time and etymology of the cuticles YOU ARE BETTER BLESSED -or simply surely supported to express,stabilize,develop,utilise and embalm your arts in that hemisphere than elsewhere in the globe. Who will contend this? My mind is not boggled - rather deliciously buoyed. iI was just sharing a few days ago with a bible writer turning to a CD PROJECT - partly because its a long way to get a bible version edited if its to be of any spiritual and global worth-THAT are the days for the print genre over? I was wrong with the JFORJAMES NEW POETRY POST FOR nO.51 ISS 19 exhibiting enormous wealth...FELICITATIONS TO WORLD POETS BY GBEMI TIJANI MST On 9/14/08, new-poetry-request at wiz.cath.vt.edu wrote: > Send New-Poetry mailing list submissions to > new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > new-poetry-request at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > You can reach the person managing the list at > new-poetry-owner at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of New-Poetry digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Galveston (David Graham) > 2. Re: National Endowment For The Arts Funds Construction Of > $1.3 Billion Poem (jforjames at aol.com) > 3. Re: National Endowment For The Arts Funds Construction Of > $1.3 Billion Poem (jforjames at aol.com) > 4. Re: National Endowment For The Arts Funds ConstructionOf $1.3 > Billion Poem (Bob Grumman) > 5. More Sad News ... (amy king) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2008 13:27:15 -0500 > From: David Graham > Subject: [New-Poetry] Galveston > To: "new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu & Views" > > Message-ID: <954AE960-5E1A-4A62-9907-F4390F9A5ED9 at ripon.edu> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Wasn't That A Mighty Storm > > Chorus > Wasn't that a mighty storm > Wasn't that a mighty storm in the morning, well > Wasn't that a mighty storm > That blew all the people away > > You know the year of 1900 > Children, many years ago > Death came howling on the ocean > Death calls, you got to go > > Now Galveston had a seawall > To keep the water down, and a > High tide from the coean > Spread the water over the town > > Chorus > > You know the trumpets gave them warning > You'd better leave this place > Now, no one thought of leaving > 'Til death stared them in the face > > And the trains they all were loaded > The people were all leaving town > The trestle gave way to the water > And the trains they went on down > > Chorus > > Rain it was a' falling > Thunder began to roll > Lightning flashed like hell fire > The wind began to blow > > Death the cruel master > When the wind to blow > Rode in on a team of horses > I cried,"Death, won't you let me go" > > Chorus > > Hey, now trees fell on the island > And the houses give way > Some they strained and drowned > Some died in most every way > > And the sea began to rolling > And the ships they could not stand > And I heard a captain crying > "God save a drowning man" > > Chorus > > Death your hands are clammy > You got them on my knee > You come and took my mother > Won't you come back after me > > And the flood it took my neighbor > Took my brother too > I thought I heard my father calling > And I watched my mother go > > Chorus > > You know the year of 1900 > Children, many years ago > Death came howling on the ocean > Death calss, you got to go > > Chorus (Twice) > > --Traditional. This version as sung by Tom Rush on Nanci Griffith's > record, Other Voices, Too. Elektra Records, 1998. > > > > > > ======================================== > David Graham > grahamd at ripon.edu > > Home Page: > http://web.mac.com/drjazz > > Poetry Library: > http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html > ========================================== > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080913/ca73bf00/attachment-0001.html > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2008 18:44:00 -0400 > From: jforjames at aol.com > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] National Endowment For The Arts Funds > Construction Of $1.3 Billion Poem > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Message-ID: <8CAE409598446A8-9BC-1EB0 at mblk-d28.sysops.aol.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > It's really a bargain, when you think about it. One B-2 bomber cost us 1.5B, > and we have more than one...although it's not clear how many we have. > Stealth financials, need to know basis, and all that. > Anyway I think we can afford one Lyric Colossus. > Finnegan > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Jeff Newberry > To: NewPoetry > Sent: Sat, 13 Sep 2008 8:16 am > Subject: [New-Poetry] National Endowment For The Arts Funds Construction Of > $1.3 Billion Poem > > > > WASHINGTON?The National Endowment for the Arts announced Monday that it has > begun construction on a $1.3 billion, 14-line lyric poem?its largest > investment in the nation's aesthetic- industrial complex since the $850 > million interpretive-dance budget of 1985. > > http://www.theonion.com/content/news/national_endowment_for_the_arts?utm_source=onion_rss_daily > > Gotta love The Onion. Dana Gioia's apparently been re-christened "Mark > Barnes." > > Best, > Jeff Newberry > > -- > Blog: http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com > Obama Myths: http://www.matthew25.org/paf/index.htm > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > ew-Poetry mailing list > ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080913/e768cc5d/attachment-0001.html > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2008 18:59:08 -0400 > From: jforjames at aol.com > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] National Endowment For The Arts Funds > Construction Of $1.3 Billion Poem > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Message-ID: <8CAE40B76906348-9BC-1F59 at mblk-d28.sysops.aol.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > http://www.metacafe.com/watch/879913/b_2_bomber/ > This what the 1.5B 'poem machine' can do. I'm afraid our Lyric Colossus may > be a bit like Ozymandias, still trying to givie orders amid the rubble and > dust.. > Finnge > > > -----Original Message----- > From: jforjames at aol.com > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Sent: Sat, 13 Sep 2008 6:44 pm > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] National Endowment For The Arts Funds Construction > Of $1.3 Billion Poem > > > It's really a bargain, when you think about it. One B-2 bomber cost us 1.5B, > and we have more than one...although it's not clear how many we have. > Stealth financials, need to know basis, and all that. > Anyway I think we can afford one Lyric Colossus. > Finnegan > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Jeff Newberry > To: NewPoetry > Sent: Sat, 13 Sep 2008 8:16 am > Subject: [New-Poetry] National Endowment For The Arts Funds Construction Of > $1.3 Billion Poem > > > > WASHINGTON?The National Endowment for the Arts announced Monday that it has > begun construction on a $1.3 billion, 14-line lyric poem?its largest > investment in the nation's aesthetic- industrial complex since the $850 > million interpretive-dance budget of 1985. > > http://www.theonion.com/content/news/national_endowment_for_the_arts?utm_source=onion_rss_daily > > Gotta love The Onion. Dana Gioia's apparently been re-christened "Mark > Barnes." > > Best, > Jeff Newberry > > -- > Blog: http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com > Obama Myths: http://www.matthew25.org/paf/index.htm > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > ew-Poetry mailing list > ew-Poetry at wiz > .cath.vt.edu > ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > Looking for spoilers and reviews on the new TV season? Get AOL's ultimate > guide to fall TV. > > > > _______________________________________________ > ew-Poetry mailing list > ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080913/0f8631dc/attachment-0001.html > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2008 19:54:26 -0500 > From: Bob Grumman > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] National Endowment For The Arts Funds > ConstructionOf $1.3 Billion Poem > To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views" > > Message-ID: <48CC60C2.6060603 at nut-n-but.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > jforjames at aol.com wrote: >> It's really a bargain, when you think about it. One B-2 bomber cost us >> 1.5B, and we have more than one...although it's not clear how many we >> have. Stealth financials, need to know basis, and all that. >> Anyway I think we can afford one Lyric Colossus. >> Finnegan >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Jeff Newberry >> To: NewPoetry >> Sent: Sat, 13 Sep 2008 8:16 am >> Subject: [New-Poetry] National Endowment For The Arts Funds >> Construction Of $1.3 Billion Poem >> >> WASHINGTON?The National Endowment for the Arts announced Monday that >> it has begun construction on a $1.3 billion, 14-line lyric poem?its >> largest investment in the nation's aesthetic- industrial complex since >> the $850 million interpretive-dance budget of 1985. >> >> http://www.theonion.com/content/news/national_endowment_for_the_arts?utm_source=onion_rss_daily >> >> Gotta love /The Onion/. Dana Gioia's apparently been re-christened >> "Mark Barnes." > They aren't too good with numbers, though: 1.3 billion is greater than > 850 million. > > --Bob G. > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080913/81b7075a/attachment-0001.html > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2008 19:25:24 -0700 (PDT) > From: amy king > Subject: [New-Poetry] More Sad News ... > To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views" > > Message-ID: <872082.97084.qm at web83313.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > Geez. First Reginald Shepherd and now David Foster Wallace -- what a week. > > David Foster Wallace > http://www.latimes.com/news/obituaries/la-me-wallace14-2008sep14,0,246155.story > > Reginald Shepherd > http://poetryfoundation.org/harriet/2008/09/reginald_shepherd_19632008.html > His Blog -- http://reginaldshepherd.blogspot.com/ > > > > > _______ > > > > Amy's Alias > > http://amyking.org/ > > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080913/e978375a/attachment-0001.html > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > End of New-Poetry Digest, Vol 51, Issue 19 > ****************************************** > From gejs1 Mon Sep 15 13:42:11 2008 From: gejs1 (Gerald Schwartz) Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2008 13:42:11 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Bob Dylan References: <55808.1221437211@opus40.org> <4b65c2d70809150615r2b665d4ajb19890c36092c348@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <001201c9175a$6245b200$b386e648@yourae066c3a9b> I found more insight watching the little documentary on the Traveling Wilbury's at about 1:30 Am Sunday! Much there in the method, tone, procedures, etc. Almost two decades old, but I'm sure still relevant. Gerald S. I listened to it this morning, yes, a little limited I'd say. On Mon, Sep 15, 2008 at 2:06 AM, wrote: It was just half anhour. I was expecting more. Tad Richards www.opus40.org/tadrichards On Sun 14/09/08 5:23 PM , "Anny Ballardini" anny.ballardini at gmail.com sent: Soon on Kqed: Bob Dylan, Artist The program explores the poetry in Bob Dylan's songs and ponders what accounts for his staying power? Today at 4:30pm http://www.kqed.org/radio/ I won't be there, night time for me. -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini Mon Sep 15 13:38:17 2008 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2008 19:38:17 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Spurring new poems In-Reply-To: References: <1617.1221487078@opus40.org> Message-ID: <4b65c2d70809151038i6d13f3b1u32dc9c2d47fdf229@mail.gmail.com> Deposit Used Flags Here deposit firearms here deposit tears here deposit soldiers here deposit poets here deposit Xmas trees here deposit junk food here deposit the smoke of cigarettes here deposit students & alumni here deposit families :& amyls here deposit death here deposit hurricanes and spikes here deposit Dostoevsky here and Tarkovsky and Dante here as much a Plutarch and some Petrarchs deposit your soul here deposit your tel. calls _northern and southern calls _nocturnal calls _Nike here deposit the white rocking chair with pipe (ce n'est pas une pipe) deposit Bob Dylan here deposit hibiscus tea here deposit your hands here deposit your faith and liver tongue here in the lounge deposit your deposit here deposit Charon here deposit Hades and Hell here deposit your sky here :& your skylark & your shotgun deposit your shares here with your life and loss here deposit your meteorite here deposit and deposit just a depot for the de/pos/it pOm written after the not yet existing homonymous poem by David Graham :-) On Mon, Sep 15, 2008 at 6:18 PM, David Graham wrote: > I'm not much for Tarot cards, Ouija boards, or Cage-like aleatory > methods, but I am very fond of dumb exercises of my own. In my daily > journal scribblings I'll often just give myself some ridiculous task, such > as writing a page of description & narrative without any verbs, and off I > go. Usually the result is junk, but most of what I write is junk anyway. > Might as well have some fun. > > When I think of it, the most common trigger for me is probably a phrase > that floats into my mind--captured out of thin air sometimes, but often > enough glimpsed on my travels. Last year I saw a box outside the local > American Legion hall with a sign that said "Deposit Used Flags Here." That > will very likely be the title of a poem some day. . . . > > If you write that poem before I do I'll have to kill you. > > > -------------- > On 9/15/08 8:57 AM, "tad at opus40.org" wrote: > > Both Donald Justice and James Merrill have done similar things. > > I'm wondering what else we use to spur new poems. > > Here's an essay by a friend on the subject: > > http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/collage.html > > > > Tad Richards > www.opus40.org/tadrichards > > On Mon 15/09/08 9:46 AM , "Suzanne Burns" atelierjewelweed at gmail.comsent: > > Sounds awfully good! I look forward to reading this: > > > http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/la-ca-linda-gregg14-2008sep14,0,3281527.story > > I rather like the idea about using tarot cards to spur new poems-- Jack > Spicer used to suggest that in his Magic Workshop as I recall. > > Cheers, > > Suzanne > > > > ==================================================== > David Graham > grahamd at ripon.edu > Home Page: > http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/About%20Me.html > > Poetry Library: > http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html > ==================================================== > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini Mon Sep 15 13:41:22 2008 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2008 19:41:22 +0200 Subject: Fwd: [New-Poetry] Re: New-Poetry Digest, Vol 51, Issue 19 In-Reply-To: <5908b9b20809151023n7c1b389dla3e57d6e1d217f9a@mail.gmail.com> References: <200809141600.m8EG04nK022909@wiz.cath.vt.edu> <5908b9b20809151023n7c1b389dla3e57d6e1d217f9a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4b65c2d70809151041l54e11535s3b8161cbc074eacb@mail.gmail.com> almost worse than my pOm. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From AlMaginnes Mon Sep 15 14:26:37 2008 From: AlMaginnes (AlMaginnes at aol.com) Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2008 14:26:37 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] TOOT! Message-ID: I want to announce my new book, GHOST ALPHABET, which won the White Pine Poetry Prize last year and was published by White Pine Press. I just got my copies today. The book can be ordered from White Pine or Amazon. **************Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. (http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tad Mon Sep 15 14:45:39 2008 From: tad (tad at opus40.org) Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2008 13:45:39 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Spurring new poems Message-ID: <1255.1221504339@opus40.org> Anny -- uh-oh, looks like David is going to have to kill you. But at least you did a wonderful job. Tad Richards www.opus40.org/tadrichards On Mon 15/09/08 1:38 PM , "Anny Ballardini" anny.ballardini at gmail.com sent: Deposit Used Flags Here deposit firearms here deposit tears here deposit soldiers here deposit poets here deposit Xmas trees here deposit junk food here deposit the smoke of cigarettes here deposit students & alumni here deposit families :& amyls here deposit death here deposit hurricanes and spikes here deposit Dostoevsky here and Tarkovsky and Dante here as much a Plutarch and some Petrarchs deposit your soul here deposit your tel. calls _northern and southern calls _nocturnal calls _Nike here deposit the white rocking chair with pipe (ce n'est pas une pipe) deposit Bob Dylan here deposit hibiscus tea here deposit your hands here deposit your faith and liver tongue here in the lounge deposit your deposit here deposit Charon here deposit Hades and Hell here deposit your sky here :& your skylark & your shotgun deposit your shares here with your life and loss here deposit your meteorite here deposit and deposit just a depot for the de/pos/it pOm written after the not yet existing homonymous poem by David Graham :-) On Mon, Sep 15, 2008 at 6:18 PM, David Graham wrote: I'm not much for Tarot cards, Ouija boards, or Cage-like aleatory methods, but I am very fond of dumb exercises of my own. In my daily journal scribblings I'll often just give myself some ridiculous task, such as writing a page of description & narrative without any verbs, and off I go. Usually the result is junk, but most of what I write is junk anyway. Might as well have some fun. When I think of it, the most common trigger for me is probably a phrase that floats into my mind--captured out of thin air sometimes, but often enough glimpsed on my travels. Last year I saw a box outside the local American Legion hall with a sign that said "Deposit Used Flags Here." That will very likely be the title of a poem some day. . . . If you write that poem before I do I'll have to kill you. -------------- On 9/15/08 8:57 AM, "tad at opus40.org [2]" wrote: Both Donald Justice and James Merrill have done similar things. I'm wondering what else we use to spur new poems. Here's an essay by a friend on the subject: http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/collage.html [4] Tad Richards www.opus40.org/tadrichards [5] On Mon 15/09/08 9:46 AM , "Suzanne Burns" atelierjewelweed at gmail.com [6] sent: Sounds awfully good! I look forward to reading this: http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/la-ca-linda-gregg14-2008sep14,0,3281527.story [7] I rather like the idea about using tarot cards to spur new poems-- Jack Spicer used to suggest that in his Magic Workshop as I recall. Cheers, Suzanne ==================================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu [8] Home Page: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/About%20Me.html [9] Poetry Library: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html [10] ==================================================== _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu [11] http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry [12] -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ [13] http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome [14] http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html [15] I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Links: ------ [1] mailto:grahamd at ripon.edu [2] mailto:tad at opus40.org [3] mailto:tad at opus40.org [4] http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/collage.html [5] http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards [6] mailto:atelierjewelweed at gmail.com [7] http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/la-ca-linda-gregg14-2008sep14,0,3281527.story [8] mailto:grahamd at ripon.edu [9] http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/About%20Me.html [10] http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html [11] mailto:New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu [12] http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry [13] http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ [14] http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome [15] http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini Mon Sep 15 17:46:20 2008 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2008 23:46:20 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Spurring new poems In-Reply-To: <1255.1221504339@opus40.org> References: <1255.1221504339@opus40.org> Message-ID: <4b65c2d70809151446p49a3a8ecje4ce48d4565582c3@mail.gmail.com> Oh well, what is death in front of Poetry, Tad? (I am quite distant, this is a sure fact, :-) On Mon, Sep 15, 2008 at 8:45 PM, wrote: > Anny -- uh-oh, looks like David is going to have to kill you. > > But at least you did a wonderful job. > > Tad Richards > www.opus40.org/tadrichards > > On Mon 15/09/08 1:38 PM , "Anny Ballardini" anny.ballardini at gmail.comsent: > > Deposit Used Flags Here > > deposit firearms here > deposit tears here > deposit soldiers here > deposit poets here > deposit Xmas trees here > deposit junk food here > deposit the smoke of cigarettes here > deposit students & alumni here > deposit families :& amyls here > deposit death here > deposit hurricanes and spikes here > deposit Dostoevsky here > and Tarkovsky and Dante here > as much a Plutarch and some Petrarchs > deposit your soul here > deposit your tel. calls _northern and southern calls _nocturnal calls _Nike > here > deposit the white rocking chair with pipe (ce n'est pas une pipe) > deposit Bob Dylan here > deposit hibiscus tea here > deposit your hands here > deposit your faith and liver tongue here in the lounge > deposit your deposit here > deposit Charon here > deposit Hades and Hell here > deposit your sky here > :& your skylark & your shotgun > deposit your shares here > with your life and loss here > deposit your meteorite here > deposit and deposit just a depot for the > de/pos/it > > > pOm written after the not yet existing homonymous poem by David Graham > > :-) > > On Mon, Sep 15, 2008 at 6:18 PM, David Graham wrote: > >> I'm not much for Tarot cards, Ouija boards, or Cage-like aleatory >> methods, but I am very fond of dumb exercises of my own. In my daily >> journal scribblings I'll often just give myself some ridiculous task, such >> as writing a page of description & narrative without any verbs, and off I >> go. Usually the result is junk, but most of what I write is junk anyway. >> Might as well have some fun. >> >> When I think of it, the most common trigger for me is probably a phrase >> that floats into my mind--captured out of thin air sometimes, but often >> enough glimpsed on my travels. Last year I saw a box outside the local >> American Legion hall with a sign that said "Deposit Used Flags Here." That >> will very likely be the title of a poem some day. . . . >> >> If you write that poem before I do I'll have to kill you. >> >> >> -------------- >> On 9/15/08 8:57 AM, "tad at opus40.org" wrote: >> >> Both Donald Justice and James Merrill have done similar things. >> >> I'm wondering what else we use to spur new poems. >> >> Here's an essay by a friend on the subject: >> >> http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/collage.html >> >> >> >> Tad Richards >> www.opus40.org/tadrichards >> >> On Mon 15/09/08 9:46 AM , "Suzanne Burns" atelierjewelweed at gmail.comsent: >> >> Sounds awfully good! I look forward to reading this: >> >> >> http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/la-ca-linda-gregg14-2008sep14,0,3281527.story >> >> I rather like the idea about using tarot cards to spur new poems-- Jack >> Spicer used to suggest that in his Magic Workshop as I recall. >> >> Cheers, >> >> Suzanne >> >> >> >> ==================================================== >> David Graham >> grahamd at ripon.edu >> Home Page: >> http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/About%20Me.html >> >> Poetry Library: >> http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html >> ==================================================== >> >> >> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd Mon Sep 15 20:52:51 2008 From: grahamd (David Graham) Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2008 19:52:51 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Spurring new poems In-Reply-To: <1255.1221504339@opus40.org> References: <1255.1221504339@opus40.org> Message-ID: On Sep 15, 2008, at 1:45 PM, wrote: > Anny -- uh-oh, looks like David is going to have to kill you. ===================== Don't worry, Anny. I'm a professional. You won't even know it's coming. ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.mac.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd Mon Sep 15 21:11:00 2008 From: grahamd (David Graham) Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2008 20:11:00 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetry by Bob Dylan Message-ID: From the NYorker: http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/toc/2008/09/22/toc_20080915 ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.mac.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From atelierjewelweed Mon Sep 15 22:09:00 2008 From: atelierjewelweed (Suzanne Burns) Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2008 22:09:00 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Spurring new poems In-Reply-To: References: <1255.1221504339@opus40.org> Message-ID: > > On Sep 15, 2008, at 1:45 PM, wrote: > > Anny -- uh-oh, looks like David is going to have to kill you. > > ===================== > > > Don't worry, Anny. I'm a professional. You won't even know it's coming. > It's only pain, and it's only yours. :-) Gah, stop me. It's after ten! Anny, that was awesome. On the subject of spurring poems: I've used Tarot cards-- I think this is pretty common, actually. (I used to read tarot cards as way to make money. You want to spur something? Try reading tarot cards all day long, non-stop.) I also love randomizing devices and automatic writing. But usually I use it as a kind of kindling to get my mind going and to shake things up. When I m done, the stuff I started it off with is usually burned off. Suzanne Burns -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From atelierjewelweed Mon Sep 15 22:10:22 2008 From: atelierjewelweed (Suzanne Burns) Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2008 22:10:22 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Spurring new poems In-Reply-To: References: <1255.1221504339@opus40.org> Message-ID: Oh also: Bernadette Mayer has always had useful ideas: http://www.writing.upenn.edu/library/Mayer-Bernadette_Experiments.html Suzanne -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini Tue Sep 16 02:23:59 2008 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2008 08:23:59 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetry by Bob Dylan In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4b65c2d70809152323k75be8fd9kd6b0f8b2e9a32e85@mail.gmail.com> 21 is not too bad, I just do not have any connection with the first one. On Tue, Sep 16, 2008 at 3:11 AM, David Graham wrote: > From the NYorker: > http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/toc/2008/09/22/toc_20080915 > > > > ======================================== > David Graham > grahamd at ripon.edu > > Home Page: > http://web.mac.com/drjazz > > Poetry Library: > http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html > ========================================== > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lsgrimes Tue Sep 16 06:33:27 2008 From: lsgrimes (Linda Sue Grimes) Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2008 05:33:27 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetry by Bob Dylan References: <4b65c2d70809152323k75be8fd9kd6b0f8b2e9a32e85@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: I wonder whose works he ransacked to get those... lsg ----- Original Message ----- From: Anny Ballardini To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &,Views Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2008 1:23 AM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Poetry by Bob Dylan 21 is not too bad, I just do not have any connection with the first one. On Tue, Sep 16, 2008 at 3:11 AM, David Graham wrote: >From the NYorker: http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/toc/2008/09/22/toc_20080915 ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.mac.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From skip Tue Sep 16 12:25:41 2008 From: skip (Skip Fox) Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2008 11:25:41 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetry by Bob Dylan In-Reply-To: <4b65c2d70809152323k75be8fd9kd6b0f8b2e9a32e85@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <37ADA7A0E5FE4EA194248DF084E218FF@win.louisiana.edu> The ages of man. What's interesting is they both seem to apply to the youth of the 1950s and the 2000s and everything in between. (I'm a lover of Dylan, but not his written poetry so much. Yet the poetry/music of "Desolation Row"-a modern update of "Dover Beach"-and dozens and dozens of more pieces continue to amaze me.) -----Original Message----- From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Anny Ballardini Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2008 1:24 AM To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &,Views Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Poetry by Bob Dylan 21 is not too bad, I just do not have any connection with the first one. On Tue, Sep 16, 2008 at 3:11 AM, David Graham wrote: >From the NYorker: http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/toc/2008/09/22/toc_20080915 ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.mac.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From by.tjmst Tue Sep 16 15:06:13 2008 From: by.tjmst (BY TJMST) Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2008 20:06:13 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] THE SERVICE AURA OF ROTARY-COUNCIL CHIEF LAUDED ROTARY, VOW TO BELONG AWARD NEWS BY GBEMI TIJANI MST Message-ID: <5908b9b20809161206p5ce3c5f0s58c9ef5a35482837@mail.gmail.com> * ...Partly INCREDIBLY SEIZED WITH joyful and taken by the scruff of the neck by the buoying news of the $1.3BILLION NATIONAL ENDOWNMENT FOR POETRY CURRENTLY BEING REECHOED IN THE NEW POETRY DIGEST & NEWS ONLINE by Stanley Fish et al-i fondly hope developing countries -Nigeria in particular( that has produced a Nobel laureat poet and still more pending judging by the galaxy of NIGERIAN WRITINGS since 1986) will fund the arts and support poets of different genre.I'm optimistic this will be presently possible as more top echelons are appreciating humanitarian gestures and creative endeavour to improve the community eastheticall and socially.This recent award reported herewith beckons ice melting in the direction of community sensitivity and poets shpuld not be in different to this:GBEMI TIJANI MST 16SEPT.2008* *COUNCIL CHIEF LAUDED ROTARY, MEMBERS PROFILE, VOW TO HOST AND JOIN ROTARY CLUB* *By gbemi tijani mst* * * *I 'm further buoyed that even non-Rotarians in top management positions who also are in charge of health administration, physical planning and development also recognize the worthy daring endeavor of Rotary.I was agape at the boosting comments of the Executive Chairman, Alh.PrinceT.Aderemi Abass and Alh.D.A.Durodola Director of Personnel Management of the Ibadan Southwest Local Government during the ACCEPTANCE CEREMONY OF EXCELLENCE SERVICE AWARD PLAQUE IN HONOUR OF THE COUNCIL CHIEF BY THE ROTARY CLUB OF OLUYOLE ESTATE,DIS.9130* * Alhaji Abass prominently lauded RI's unrelenting effort to eradicate POLIO..* *'I'm also impressed by the diverse caliber of professionals and friends in your club', he said. " In addition, the popular evidence of Rotary clubs activities which I personally witnessed during my travels to the USA also reinforces my trust in Rotary. This award therefore rekindled the social splinter in my spirit to SERVE ABOVE SELF as your logo depict and advocate from time to time", awardee affirmed and eulogized RI's helping programmes locally and globally." In spite of this", he stressed further," I will also like to do more than host the next meeting at Sylvia Place Hotel. I will like to join Rotary" ? Prince Abass concluded his speech with a resolute and shared pride in Rotary, a non-profit service organization of all professionals and business leaders founded by Paul Harris since 1905* *The group burst into one of Rotary's popular songs ?VIVE LA ROTARY and the atmosphere became beautifully infectious and the fragrance wafted harmlessly in the well-ventilated office that also hanged the photos of several council chiefs that have headed the Council before our awardee. The intoxication was psychologically delicious as evident in stanza after stanza and chorus participation.* * * *The Director of Personnel Management also responded reflectively to the Chairman's speech and avowal for Rotary." I 'm not surprised of the chairman's declaration for Rotary. As health administrators and partners with NGOs and World Health Organization and other UNITED NATIONS bodies we all witnessed the developmental role these entities have been playing in disease prevention and eradication ?especially POLIO ?that Rotary has focused for complete eradication". 'This is a worthy goal', Alhaji Durodola said, "and we would like to support your club but there are basic protocols we shouldn't jump"* * * *Being a business day, Monday- for that matter in Africa - as Fela had touted through his afrobeat music that 'no labourer will accept credit'. Besides buying and selling deals, supervisors too will punish slothfulness at work. Work ethics and official appointments are strictly observed on Mondays with more reverence. All these industrial demeanors are not alien to Rotarians as leaders in business or as departmental boss of an organization-public or private. * No less than 12 of the 27 charter ? member club evidently growing to 42 attended the event-which was held at the Secretariat of Ibadan South -West Local Government, M.K.O.ABIOLA Way, Oluyole Estate, Ibadan. The weather was bright but benign for bureaucrats and field workers alike. Monday, 1stSeptember,2008 was initially misty in the eastern part of Ibadan metropolis in the earlier hours of the day though it turned out around noon to be climatically productive. Teachers had resumed from a prolonged strike and therefore added more commuters and traffic burden to this indigenous mega city.Ibadan is the 3rd largest city in Africa and the growth of suburbs is rapidly increasing its population density, yet access roads are fewer. .Sometimes in this latent wet season, precipitation could be noted with cats and dogs but surprisingly it may not even drizzle at all elsewhere in the same city. Truly nature is the supreme driver and writer of climate. A few of the club officers present were Rotarians Hysa & Virginia, a car dealer & auto insurer respectively,Ayinde, a fashion designer, Daranijo,the club President and immigration lawyer, Oyewusi, an estate manager,Ogunbanwo,club secretary & environmental consultant, Gbemi,consultant medical advertiser,Dr.Ordia, ophthalmologist,, Dr.Adeyemo, a pediatrician and K. Adekogbe, the president elect and a publisher by classification, Segun,an intending member, adult educator who's just returned from Hungary on a gender conference also witnessed the good remarks about Rotary Clubs' activities ?. *THE HOME FRONT* There's always a father figure tenuously supporting our moves ? be it a district pet or an in?house initiative like this award event. Our Charter President,Rtn Olaide *Olayiwola(Paul Harris Fellow) is not only a prodigy of how else this or that problem or project can be solved or implemented ?he is also a tremendous giver. Being an economist, a CEO of two companies, a College Proprietor and a telecommunication engineer he is informed about healthy living indices and yawning inequity in the re-emerging African democracies including Nigeria. During his tenure as Charter President he ensured that all members must be financially responsible. Controlled spending, prudence and support from members enabled the club to run without deficit in the last financial year despite our initial penurious posture in our pre-charter year. Now we urgently need permanent accommodation-a Club House Plus.* *The charter members were determined from inception to transform the club's status from provisional to charter level. We are financially buoyed through by our Charter President .He funded the 1st ZEBRA CROSSING PROJECT we did on the Ring Road Ibadan. Oyo State.He's sponsored many District events & proxy settled many bills & dues of regular members.* * * *Rotary Club of Oluyole Estate,Ibadan D9130 has participated in 10 district events including Group Study Exchange Hosting & Send forth of Rotarians from India, Dis 3250, sponsored 9 students on RYLA, contributed to Rotary Foundation Month via Dis 9130, attended 2 District conferences & 4 Pets at Akure,Abuja & Bida and 2 members also made it to the 2008 RI Convention held at Los Angeles in June. Locally our inter-club fellowship activities are maintained. We rarely had a fellowship meeting without a Rotarian or non-Rotarian guest. The international fellowship trip the club organized to Ghana in July 2007 attracted more members. Almost all members now realize the service ? community compassion mission of Rotary. We are greatly mentored. He practically helped to establish the club though members support too was not insignificant. He's a culturally adjusted and detribalized leader. I do know he's organically a believer in God. Even when he's observing Ramadan fasting he still hosts Rotarians and members can pray in Jesus name whereas he's a Muslim. This milieu of cultural tolerance without religious discrimination is also very pivotal in attracting the club to all schools of faith..* *As a comparatively young club we know we still have many things pending to maintain this precocious vibrancy and Rotary splendour, we know we'll go places & be responsible to make dreams of members & the community real insofar as they will enhance effective living, productive structures for the society as D.K.LEE,RI President has advocated . Our project focus will also sensitize public & corporate leadership in the jurisdiction we operate so that community development and holistic wellbeing could be collectively realized -at the prime of time - with the abundant resources which our locales are endowed.* * * *ITSN'T THAT ROTARY IS THE ONLY NON-PROFIT CLUB THAT EMBRACE BELIEVERS AND CONTEMPORARY DEVELOPMENT BURDEN BUT THAT GOD SINGLE OUT THE DIAMOND AMONG ALL STONES.* *BY GBEMI TIJANI MST, RC OF OLUYOLE ESTATE, DISTRICT 9130,* * * -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ralph Wed Sep 17 06:24:16 2008 From: ralph (ralph at walleahpress.com.au) Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2008 20:24:16 +1000 (EST) Subject: [New-Poetry] Raising an Aboriginal language from the dead Message-ID: <60097.121.223.162.98.1221647056.squirrel@www.walleahpress.com.au> Hello list: forwarding a moving clip from an Australian newspaper that I hope's of interest, I don't have the newspaper details but it's found its way to a secondary source at http://www.onlineopinion.com.au/view.asp?article=7888 Cheers, Ralph walleahpress.com.au Much has been written about the need for ecological diversity to maintain a balanced ecosystem. Yet in Adelaide, in the UNESCO Year of Indigenous Languages, an equally profound revolution is taking place which has linguists all over the world talking - the resurrection of a dead Aboriginal language. Ninna marni? Are you good? Marniai. I’m good. Wanti ninna? Where are you going? Wodlianna. Going home. That’s Kaurna (pronounced garma) the language of the original inhabitants of the Adelaide Plain, the Kaurna People. It was effectively dead by 1860. It suffered the fate of many Aboriginal people: dispersal, disease, in-fighting and assimilation. English buried their tongue. From amyhappens Wed Sep 17 09:36:28 2008 From: amyhappens (amy king) Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2008 06:36:28 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] GET BITCH Message-ID: <539588.46874.qm@web83314.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Recent on the blog: *? GET BITCH (they publish poems too)? -- Help!: http://amyking.wordpress.com/2008/09/17/get-bitch/? *? Poetry Is To Money As Ice Cream Is To Mud -- http://amyking.wordpress.com/2008/09/17/poetry-is-to-money-as-ice-cream-is-to-mud/ *? DFW, etc etc -- http://amyking.wordpress.com/ Be well, Amy _______ Amy's Alias http://amyking.org/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames Wed Sep 17 13:12:14 2008 From: jforjames (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2008 13:12:14 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] U.S. Poets on Britain's Poetry Archive Message-ID: <8CAE6FFAA1F00F8-1F80-7B9@FWM-M01.sysops.aol.com> http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601088&sid=aSLK.6Edrhbk&refer=muse U.S. Poets Roethke, Williams Go Online in Rare Audio Recordings By James Pressley Sept. 16 (Bloomberg) -- Britain's Poetry Archive today added rare audio recordings of 14 major American poets of the 20th century, including Theodore Roethke, Gwendolyn Brooks and William Carlos Williams, to its online collection, giving poetry lovers a fresh chance to hear the authors reading their own works. The 61 recordings include such classics as Williams's ``The Red Wheelbarrow'' and Roethke's ``My Papa's Waltz,'' -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard Wed Sep 17 15:41:10 2008 From: halvard (Halvard Johnson) Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2008 14:41:10 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Due Diligence Sonnet (downsized version) Message-ID: Due Diligence Sonnet (downsized version) When looked into closely by regulators, the most relaxed foot is the pyrrhus--no stress there at all to speak of. The most stressed out is the spondee, which is, in fact, a trochee. And trochee, natch, is an iamb, as are dactyl and cretic. When suddenly, wandering among the amphibrachs, a bacchius refused to allow shareholders to review its books. The nervous foot market kept seeking bailouts and other trochees, or, as some call them, chorees. The government, an antibacchius to be sure, came riding to the rescue. Blue-ribbon commissions sought out underlying fundamentals (primus and tertius paeons) and, by the final bell, dactylated . . . down again. Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at earthlink.net halvard at gmail.com http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From skip Wed Sep 17 16:04:22 2008 From: skip (Skip Fox) Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2008 15:04:22 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Due Diligence Sonnet (downsized version) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <6E299DF8E32649C3A093B6B641CA66FB@win.louisiana.edu> A poem that is an apt reply, perhaps, to my earlier brutish insistence that everyone can scan if they can learn to listen. (That if you listen close enough, everything rhymes, etc. I.e., that sound is so multivalent and delicately complex that its market can't be hedged, not truly.) -----Original Message----- From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Halvard Johnson Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 2008 2:41 PM To: NewPoetry: & Views Subject: [New-Poetry] Due Diligence Sonnet (downsized version) Due Diligence Sonnet (downsized version) When looked into closely by regulators, the most relaxed foot is the pyrrhus--no stress there at all to speak of. The most stressed out is the spondee, which is, in fact, a trochee. And trochee, natch, is an iamb, as are dactyl and cretic. When suddenly, wandering among the amphibrachs, a bacchius refused to allow shareholders to review its books. The nervous foot market kept seeking bailouts and other trochees, or, as some call them, chorees. The government, an antibacchius to be sure, came riding to the rescue. Blue-ribbon commissions sought out underlying fundamentals (primus and tertius paeons) and, by the final bell, dactylated . . . down again. Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at earthlink.net halvard at gmail.com http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini Thu Sep 18 11:11:17 2008 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2008 17:11:17 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Kooser's Kaelum Poulson Message-ID: <4b65c2d70809180811v6bd24f91v7ed38ed8dee4f108@mail.gmail.com> American Life in Poetry: Column 182 BY TED KOOSER, U.S. POET LAUREATE, 2004-2006 by Kaelum Poulson of Washington state. The Crow So beautiful but often unseen a maid of nature the street cleaner that's everywhere never thanked never liked always ignored so elegant in a way no one sees but without it we would be in trash up to our knees with the heart of a lion the mind of a fox the color of the night sky a crow the unpaid workman that helps in every way each and every day -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gmguddi Thu Sep 18 15:55:15 2008 From: gmguddi (gmguddi) Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2008 14:55:15 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] poet hire: Illinois State University - Experimental and/or Oral Poetics In-Reply-To: <200809181600.m8IG04nI006116@wiz.cath.vt.edu> References: <200809181600.m8IG04nI006116@wiz.cath.vt.edu> Message-ID: <1F2B6890-3B25-4BE8-8B41-4AC0935DF7E1@ilstu.edu> The Department of English at Illinois State University (http://www.english.ilstu.edu/ ) seeks a Creative Writing, Poetry, tenure-track, assistant professor: Given our Ph.D. in English Studies, and our recent Ph.D. with emphasis in Creative Writing, we seek candidates prepared to work in a Department that stresses the relationships among literatures, linguistics, rhetoric and pedagogies. We encourage candidates with expertise in experimental poetics and/or oral poetics. Requirements to be met by appointment date: 1) terminal degree, 2) dissertation and/or publications in the field, and 3) demonstrated commitment to publishing and teaching. Position start date: August 16, 2009. To assure full consideration, please send letter, vita, and complete dossier by November 3, 2008 to: Joan Mullin, Chair, Department of English, Campus Box 4240, Normal, Illinois 61790-4240 or email attachments to Angela Scott at arscott at ilstu.edu, subject line: Creative Writing Search. Applications acknowledged. Interviews conducted at MLA. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames Thu Sep 18 20:10:36 2008 From: jforjames (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2008 20:10:36 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] WorldPo: Ireland Message-ID: <8CAE80346C95EAD-1BE8-377F@WEBMAIL-MC17.sysops.aol.com> http://www.mayoadvertiser.com/index.php?aid=7263 Current Publication Date: 19/09/2008 Mayo celebrates Poetry Ireland?s birthday On September 22 Poetry Ireland will celebrate its 30th anniversary. To mark this occasion and to raise consciousness about poetry now and in the future, the organisation propose to have a reading in every county in Ireland on a designated day, Thursday October 2, and to name this day All-Ireland Poetry Day. Mayo County Council Arts Office, Mayo County Library and Oifig na Gaeilge are delighted to present three poetry events. Lunchtime Poetry Reading with Louis de Paor Renowned Irish Poet Louis de Paor will give an intimate lunchtime poetry reading in Mayo County Library -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames Thu Sep 18 20:11:32 2008 From: jforjames (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2008 20:11:32 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] supermodel of poetry Message-ID: <8CAE80367E7B281-1BE8-378E@WEBMAIL-MC17.sysops.aol.com> http://www.ocregister.com/articles/love-hotel-ricki-2162103-one-room Thursday, September 18, 2008 The supermodel of poetry Former model Ricki Mandeville is Gypsy Den's resident poet. By DOUG IRVING The Orange County Register She opens the door and there he is, standing in the soft light of the hotel hallway, holding roses. She notices that, for this night, he has polished his shoes to a bright shine. It's been a few years since they used to dance across the living room floor to jazz on the radio, just the two of them. But he still looks good. She realizes her heart is pounding. "You look beautiful," he says. She holds open the door and invites him in. They embrace. He gives her a kiss. What happens next is poetry. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames Thu Sep 18 20:15:36 2008 From: jforjames (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2008 20:15:36 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: SPD POETRY BEST-SELLERS JUL/AUG 08 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8CAE803F9937696-1BE8-37CA@WEBMAIL-MC17.sysops.aol.com> Sent: Tue, 16 Sep 2008 7:04 pm Subject: SPD POETRY BEST-SELLERS JUL/AUG 08 **SPD RECOMMENDS: NEW TITLES for August 27-September 15, 2008** ORDERS: 1-800-869-7553 ORDERS at SPDBOOKS.ORG FAX: 1-510-524-0852 WWW.SPDBOOKS.ORG Try Electronic Ordering! SPD is on PUBNET (SAN #106-6617) Questions? Contact Clay Banes at clay at spdbooks.org **SPD'S NEW BLOG!** http://spdtoday.blogspot.com/ FEATURING NEWS OF OUR VERY NEWEST NEW ARRIVALS (in real blog time) ** SMALL PRESS DISTRIBUTION JULY/AUGUST 08 BEST-SELLERS** **http://www.spdbooks.org/root/pages/bestsellers/poetry/poetry-bestsellers.asp ** YOU ARE A LITTLE BIT HAPPIER THAN I AM by Tao Lin (Action Books) LYRIC POSTMODERNISMS: AN ANTHOLOGY OF CONTEMPORARY POETRIES edited y Reginald Shepherd (Counterpath Press) COMPLETE MINIMAL POEMS by Aram Saroyan (Ugly Duckling Presse) THE BALLOONISTS by Eula Biss (Hanging Loose Presse) THE TRANSFORMATION by Juliana Spahr (Atelos) WHIM MAN MAMMON by Abraham Smith (Action Books) I, AFTERLIFE: ESSAY IN MOURNING TIME by Kristin Prevallet (Essay ress) BALLAD OF JAMIE ALLAN by Tom Pickard (Flood Editions) NIGHT SCENES by Lisa Jarnot (Flood Editions) AJAX by Sophocles, translated by John Tipton (Flood Editions) THE BATTLEFIELD WHERE THE MOON SAYS I LOVE YOU by Frank Stanford Lost Roads Publishers) THE MAN SUIT by Zachary Schomburg (Black Ocean) DEMENTIA BLOG by Susan M. Schultz (Singing Horse Press) VAUDEVILLE by Allyssa Wolf (Otis Books/Seismicity Editions) CRYSTALLOGRAPHY by Christian B?k (Coach House Books) NEWCOMER CAN'T SWIM by Renee Gladman (Kelsey Street Press) TELESCOPE by Sand y Florian (Action Books) DEAR RA (A STORY IN FLINCHES) by Johannes G?ransson (Starcherone ooks) JUBILEE by Roxane Beth Johnson (Anhinga Press) THE EVOLUTION OF A SIGH by R. Zamora Linmark (Hanging Loose Press) INCUBATION: A SPACE FOR MONSTERS by Bhanu Kapil (Leon Works) A COMMUNION OF SAINTS by Meg Withers (Tinfish Press) MAHCIC by Tomas Riley (Calaca Press) OULIPO COMPENDIUM (Revised Edition) edited by Harry Matthews & lastair Brotchie (Make Now Press) RADI OS by Ronald Johnson (Flood Editions) EUNOIA by Christian B?k (Coach House Books) NECESSARY STRANGER by Graham Foust (Flood Editions) BRIEF UNDER WATER by Cyrus Console (Burning Deck Press) RONALD JOHNSON: LIFE AND WORKS by Ronald Johnson (National Poetry oundation) UNRAVELING THE BED by Mia Leonin (Anhinga Press) - f you do not want to receive any more newsletters, ttp://lists.spdbooks.org/?p=unsubscribe&uid=5db2d46d754cee5d533757975a280d55 To update your preferences and to unsubscribe visit ttp://lists.spdbooks.org/?p=preferences&uid=5db2d46d754cee5d533757975a280d55 orward a Message to Someone ttp://lists.spdbooks.org/?p=forward&uid=5db2d46d754cee5d533757975a280d55&mid=84 - owered by PHPlist, www.phplist.com -- -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From amyhappens Thu Sep 18 20:53:43 2008 From: amyhappens (amy king) Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2008 17:53:43 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] OT -- Bitch update Message-ID: <910623.43944.qm@web83310.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> >From their website: We're thrilled to announce that in just three short days, you've rallied together and propelled us beyond our $40,000 fundraising goal. In fact, by the time we looked up from our computers, you'd already donated $46,000! On top of that, you've spread the word far and wide, and offered powerful and inspiring words of support. This tremendous and swift outpouring has been honoring and humbling?particularly because you've offered it during the worst days the U.S. economy has seen this year. Thank you. We're deeply grateful. Please help us keep the momentum going and continue donating and offering your feedback and ideas. We know many of you have ideas and concerns about Bitch's future and sustainability, and we're grateful for the critical feedback and ideas you've offered so far. We're listening. And we assure you we're hard at work on a sustainable vision, based on your feedback (and we're at work on a survey to help facilitate this process). We've also discovered through this process that many of you weren't aware that Bitch is a nonprofit organization, and that we rely on your ongoing financial support to continue our work. One of the advantages of being a nonprofit means that the money we raise above and beyond our fundraising goals simply goes back into the organization to secure our future and help us launch new projects and new ways of fulfilling our mission. So please, if you haven't already, we ask that you consider the value of the work we do and join this historic effort to secure the future of a critical voice in independent media and feminism. We're in this together. Keep Winnie the wiener dog growing! Give input on our direction, and spread the word! On behalf of the staff and board here at Bitch, we offer our deepest thanks and appreciation. We're thrilled to be demonstrating the incredible power of community-supported publishing with you. http://bitchmagazine.org/post/weve-made-history-together#comment-926 _______ Amy's Alias http://amyking.org/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames Fri Sep 19 12:05:21 2008 From: jforjames (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2008 12:05:21 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Donald Hall at 80 Message-ID: <8CAE888A711978D-690-1954@WEBMAIL-DF08.sysops.aol.com> http://www.unionleader.com/article.aspx?headline=Poet+'unpacks+the+boxes'+at+PSU+gathering&articleId=431c0ebc-8fb6-4e17-8f75-fea411eac388 Poet 'unpacks the boxes' at PSU gathering By PAULA TRACY New Hampshire Union Leader Staff PLYMOUTH ? He almost gets busted for DWO (Driving While Old) in Meredith on Route 104. Instead, poet Donald Hall had the last laugh, writing about the episode in a recently published memoir that coincides with 80th birthday tomorrow. Last night, the U.S. poet laureate in 2006 read at Plymouth State University from "Unpacking the Boxes: A Memoir of Life in Poetry" published Sept. 2 by Houghton-Mifflin. >From humorous stories of his childhood, to the subject of living on the Planet of Antiquity in his 70s, the book covers a life well-lived, mostly in New Hampshire. Its name and much of the narrative come from the process of unpacking 70 or 80 boxes which had been packed up after his mother's death in 1994 and sat unopened for several years. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames Fri Sep 19 12:09:24 2008 From: jforjames (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2008 12:09:24 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Wagoner, dean of Northwest poetry Message-ID: <8CAE8893803A017-690-19A4@WEBMAIL-DF08.sysops.aol.com> http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/books/2008188752_wagoner21.html "A Map of the Night": Master poet sometimes loses his way in new collection David Wagoner's new collection of poems, "A Map of the Night," feels like a summing-up by the author many consider the dean of Northwest poetry. By Sheila Farr Special to The Seattle Times "A Map of the Night" by David Wagoner University of Illinois Press, 143 pp., $19.95 If anyone qualifies as the senior statesman of Northwest poetry, it's David Wagoner. The University of Washington professor emeritus and editor of the former journal Poetry Northwest has served as a chancellor of the Academy of American Poets and authored 10 novels in addition to his 18 collections of poems. In a sense, Wagoner has taken up the mantle of the late Seattle poet Theodore Roethke, his early teacher and mentor. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd Fri Sep 19 12:22:49 2008 From: grahamd (David Graham) Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2008 11:22:49 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] To Autumn Message-ID: Here's a factoid courtesy of Garrison Keillor's Writer's Almanac. Today is the very date on which Keats wrote "To Autumn." Everyone should go outdoors immediately and do some gleaning. TO AUTUMN 1. SEASON of mists and mellow fruitfulness, Close bosom-friend of the maturing sun; Conspiring with him how to load and bless With fruit the vines that round the thatch-eves run; To bend with apples the moss'd cottage-trees, And fill all fruit with ripeness to the core; To swell the gourd, and plump the hazel shells With a sweet kernel; to set budding more, And still more, later flowers for the bees, Until they think warm days will never cease, For Summer has o'er-brimm'd their clammy cells. 2. Who hath not seen thee oft amid thy store? Sometimes whoever seeks abroad may find Thee sitting careless on a granary floor, Thy hair soft-lifted by the winnowing wind; Or on a half-reap'd furrow sound asleep, Drows'd with the fume of poppies, while thy hook Spares the next swath and all its twined flowers: And sometimes like a gleaner thou dost keep Steady thy laden head across a brook; Or by a cyder-press, with patient look, Thou watchest the last oozings hours by hours. 3. Where are the songs of Spring? Ay, where are they? Think not of them, thou hast thy music too,-- While barred clouds bloom the soft-dying day, And touch the stubble plains with rosy hue; Then in a wailful choir the small gnats mourn Among the river sallows, borne aloft Or sinking as the light wind lives or dies; And full-grown lambs loud bleat from hilly bourn; Hedge-crickets sing; and now with treble soft The red-breast whistles from a garden-croft; And gathering swallows twitter in the skies. Keats, John. 1884. Poetical Works. ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.mac.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cervantes.james Fri Sep 19 13:40:27 2008 From: cervantes.james (James Cervantes) Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2008 10:40:27 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] To Autumn In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <648208b60809191040g1f8ae6b4x65778559da729d48@mail.gmail.com> I hired a gleaning lady. - Jim On Fri, Sep 19, 2008 at 9:22 AM, David Graham wrote: > Here's a factoid courtesy of Garrison Keillor's Writer's Almanac. Today is > the very date on which Keats wrote "To Autumn." Everyone should go outdoors > immediately and do some gleaning. > > *TO AUTUMN* > > 1. > SEASON of mists and mellow fruitfulness, > Close bosom-friend of the maturing sun; > Conspiring with him how to load and bless > With fruit the vines that round the thatch-eves run; > To bend with apples the moss'd cottage-trees, > And fill all fruit with ripeness to the core; > To swell the gourd, and plump the hazel shells > With a sweet kernel; to set budding more, > And still more, later flowers for the bees, > Until they think warm days will never cease, > For Summer has o'er-brimm'd their clammy cells. > > 2. > Who hath not seen thee oft amid thy store? > Sometimes whoever seeks abroad may find > Thee sitting careless on a granary floor, > Thy hair soft-lifted by the winnowing wind; > Or on a half-reap'd furrow sound asleep, > Drows'd with the fume of poppies, while thy hook > Spares the next swath and all its twined flowers: > And sometimes like a gleaner thou dost keep > Steady thy laden head across a brook; > Or by a cyder-press, with patient look, > Thou watchest the last oozings hours by hours. > > 3. > Where are the songs of Spring? Ay, where are they? > Think not of them, thou hast thy music too,-- > While barred clouds bloom the soft-dying day, > And touch the stubble plains with rosy hue; > Then in a wailful choir the small gnats mourn > Among the river sallows, borne aloft > Or sinking as the light wind lives or dies; > And full-grown lambs loud bleat from hilly bourn; > Hedge-crickets sing; and now with treble soft > The red-breast whistles from a garden-croft; > And gathering swallows twitter in the skies. > > Keats, John. 1884. *Poetical Works*. > > > > ======================================== > David Graham > grahamd at ripon.edu > > Home Page: > http://web.mac.com/drjazz > > Poetry Library: > http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html > ========================================== > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning http://www.fieralingue.it/documenti/mr_bondo.pdf http://www.poetserv.org/jvc/home/index.html http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamescervantes/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames Fri Sep 19 13:53:06 2008 From: jforjames (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2008 13:53:06 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] To Autumn In-Reply-To: <648208b60809191040g1f8ae6b4x65778559da729d48@mail.gmail.com> References: <648208b60809191040g1f8ae6b4x65778559da729d48@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <8CAE897B41CA95C-A2C-82E@mblk-d23.sysops.aol.com> Can you come over and glean my garage? Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: James Cervantes Sent: Fri, 19 Sep 2008 1:40 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] To Autumn I hired a gleaning lady. - Jim On Fri, Sep 19, 2008 at 9:22 AM, David Graham wrote: Here's a factoid courtesy of Garrison Keillor's Writer's Almanac. ?Today is the very date on which Keats wrote "To Autumn." ?Everyone should go outdoors immediately and do some gleaning. TO AUTUMN ? ????????????????????????? 1. SEASON of mists and mellow fruitfulness, ? Close bosom-friend of the maturing sun; Conspiring with him how to load and bless ? With fruit the vines that round the thatch-eves run; To bend with apples the moss'd cottage-trees, ? And fill all fruit with ripeness to the core; ??? To swell the gourd, and plump the hazel shells With a sweet kernel; to set budding more, ? And still more, later flowers for the bees, ? Until they think warm days will never cease, ??? For Summer has o'er-brimm'd their clammy cells. ? ???????????????????????? 2. Who hath not seen thee oft amid thy store? ? Sometimes whoever seeks abroad may find Thee sitting careless on a granary floor, ? Thy hair soft-lifted by the winnowing wind; Or on a half-reap'd furrow sound asleep, ? Drows'd with the fume of poppies, while thy hook ??? Spares the next swath and all its twined flowers: And sometimes like a gleaner thou dost keep ? Steady thy laden head across a brook; ? Or by a cyder-press, with patient look, ??? Thou watchest the last oozings hours by hours. ? ???????????????????????? 3. Where are the songs of Spring? Ay, where are they? ? Think not of them, thou hast thy music too,-- While barred clouds bloom the soft-dying day, ? And touch the stubble plains with rosy hue; Then in a wailful choir the small gnats mourn ? Among the river sallows, borne aloft ??? Or sinking as the light wind lives or dies; And full-grown lambs loud bleat from hilly bourn; ? Hedge-crickets sing; and now with treble soft ? The red-breast whistles from a garden-croft; ????????????? And gathering swallows twitter in the skies. ? Keats, John. 1884. Poetical Works. ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.mac.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning http://www.fieralingue.it/documenti/mr_bondo.pdf http://www.poetserv.org/jvc/home/index.html http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamescervantes/ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini Fri Sep 19 14:13:52 2008 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2008 20:13:52 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] To Autumn In-Reply-To: <8CAE897B41CA95C-A2C-82E@mblk-d23.sysops.aol.com> References: <648208b60809191040g1f8ae6b4x65778559da729d48@mail.gmail.com> <8CAE897B41CA95C-A2C-82E@mblk-d23.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <4b65c2d70809191113q1570424u300a2196667097d6@mail.gmail.com> I gan glean da garage if you gan glean my gar On Fri, Sep 19, 2008 at 7:53 PM, wrote: > > Can you come over and glean my garage? > Finnegan > > > -----Original Message----- > From: James Cervantes > Sent: Fri, 19 Sep 2008 1:40 pm > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] To Autumn > > I hired a gleaning lady. > - Jim > > On Fri, Sep 19, 2008 at 9:22 AM, David Graham wrote: > >> Here's a factoid courtesy of Garrison Keillor's Writer's Almanac. Today >> is the very date on which Keats wrote "To Autumn." Everyone should go >> outdoors immediately and do some gleaning. >> >> *TO AUTUMN* >> >> 1. >> SEASON of mists and mellow fruitfulness, >> Close bosom-friend of the maturing sun; >> Conspiring with him how to load and bless >> With fruit the vines that round the thatch-eves run; >> To bend with apples the moss'd cottage-trees, >> And fill all fruit with ripeness to the core; >> To swell the gourd, and plump the hazel shells >> With a sweet kernel; to set budding more, >> And still more, later flowers for the bees, >> Until they think warm days will never cease, >> For Summer has o'er-brimm'd their clammy cells. >> >> 2. >> Who hath not seen thee oft amid thy store? >> Sometimes whoever seeks abroad may find >> Thee sitting careless on a granary floor, >> Thy hair soft-lifted by the winnowing wind; >> Or on a half-reap'd furrow sound asleep, >> Drows'd with the fume of poppies, while thy hook >> Spares the next swath and all its twined flowers: >> And sometimes like a gleaner thou dost keep >> Steady thy laden head across a brook; >> Or by a cyder-press, with patient look, >> Thou watchest the last oozings hours by hours. >> >> 3. >> Where are the songs of Spring? Ay, where are they? >> Think not of them, thou hast thy music too,-- >> While barred clouds bloom the soft-dying day, >> And touch the stubble plains with rosy hue; >> Then in a wailful choir the small gnats mourn >> Among the river sallows, borne aloft >> Or sinking as the light wind lives or dies; >> And full-grown lambs loud bleat from hilly bourn; >> Hedge-crickets sing; and now with treble soft >> The red-breast whistles from a garden-croft; >> And gathering swallows twitter in the skies. >> >> Keats, John. 1884. *Poetical Works*. >> >> >> >> ======================================== >> David Graham >> grahamd at ripon.edu >> >> Home Page: >> http://web.mac.com/drjazz >> >> Poetry Library: >> http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html >> ========================================== >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > > > -- > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org > http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning > http://www.fieralingue.it/documenti/mr_bondo.pdf > http://www.poetserv.org/jvc/home/index.html > http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamescervantes/ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing listNew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.eduhttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > ------------------------------ > Find phone numbers fast with the New AOL Yellow Pages > ! > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini Fri Sep 19 14:15:35 2008 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2008 20:15:35 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] my favorite today after da gleaning Message-ID: <4b65c2d70809191115s1d4ccc29xb860026e4b2b1b3f@mail.gmail.com> The first qualification to become a great composer is undoubtedly to be already dead. * *Il primo requisito per diventare un grande compositore ?, senza dubbio, quello di essere gi? deceduto. > *Arthur Honegger* -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From skip Fri Sep 19 14:23:48 2008 From: skip (Skip Fox) Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2008 13:23:48 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] To Autumn In-Reply-To: <648208b60809191040g1f8ae6b4x65778559da729d48@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1B1FEBA0AA644BB9901EB717284C4F55@win.louisiana.edu> I change more light bulbs. -----Original Message----- From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of James Cervantes Sent: Friday, September 19, 2008 12:40 PM To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &,Views Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] To Autumn I hired a gleaning lady. - Jim On Fri, Sep 19, 2008 at 9:22 AM, David Graham wrote: Here's a factoid courtesy of Garrison Keillor's Writer's Almanac. Today is the very date on which Keats wrote "To Autumn." Everyone should go outdoors immediately and do some gleaning. TO AUTUMN 1. SEASON of mists and mellow fruitfulness, Close bosom-friend of the maturing sun; Conspiring with him how to load and bless With fruit the vines that round the thatch-eves run; To bend with apples the moss'd cottage-trees, And fill all fruit with ripeness to the core; To swell the gourd, and plump the hazel shells With a sweet kernel; to set budding more, And still more, later flowers for the bees, Until they think warm days will never cease, For Summer has o'er-brimm'd their clammy cells. 2. Who hath not seen thee oft amid thy store? Sometimes whoever seeks abroad may find Thee sitting careless on a granary floor, Thy hair soft-lifted by the winnowing wind; Or on a half-reap'd furrow sound asleep, Drows'd with the fume of poppies, while thy hook Spares the next swath and all its twined flowers: And sometimes like a gleaner thou dost keep Steady thy laden head across a brook; Or by a cyder-press, with patient look, Thou watchest the last oozings hours by hours. 3. Where are the songs of Spring? Ay, where are they? Think not of them, thou hast thy music too,-- While barred clouds bloom the soft-dying day, And touch the stubble plains with rosy hue; Then in a wailful choir the small gnats mourn Among the river sallows, borne aloft Or sinking as the light wind lives or dies; And full-grown lambs loud bleat from hilly bourn; Hedge-crickets sing; and now with treble soft The red-breast whistles from a garden-croft; And gathering swallows twitter in the skies. Keats, John. 1884. Poetical Works. ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.mac.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning http://www.fieralingue.it/documenti/mr_bondo.pdf http://www.poetserv.org/jvc/home/index.html http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamescervantes/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From amyhappens Fri Sep 19 18:34:47 2008 From: amyhappens (amy king) Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2008 15:34:47 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Race and Poetry Message-ID: <991538.49817.qm@web83310.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> This Sunday -- http://amyking.files.wordpress.com/2008/09/race-and-poetry.pdf _______ Amy's Alias http://amyking.org/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames Fri Sep 19 19:00:48 2008 From: jforjames (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2008 19:00:48 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] poetics is childish Message-ID: <8CAE8C2B0724E27-1024-362E@WEBMAIL-DC16.sysops.aol.com> http://www.brooklynrail.org/2008/09/books/raising-poetry NONFICTION: Raising Poetry by Sharon Mesmer ? Craig Dworkin, ed., The Consequence of Innovation: 21st Century Poetics (Roof Books, 2008) The problem with poetry these days isn?t the literary magazines run by pharmaceutical industry businessmen, or the grants granted by pharmaceutical industry heiresses, or even the grant-granting bodies composed of pharmo-conservo-politicos (and heiresses). And it?s not all the writing about writing, either, or even the writing about the writing about the writing (which, okay, can get annoying). It?s the poetry about the writing about the writing about the writing. Poetry has become an overscheduled toddler run ragged by ambitious, bickering parents, its very existence a compromised simulacrum of their disharmonious projections and expectations -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cstroffo Fri Sep 19 20:29:58 2008 From: cstroffo (Chris Stroffolino) Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2008 17:29:58 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] poetics is childish In-Reply-To: <8CAE8C2B0724E27-1024-362E@WEBMAIL-DC16.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CAE8C2B0724E27-1024-362E@WEBMAIL-DC16.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: Sharon Mesmer was always one of my fav. people in the (post-Chicago) NYC scene....and this teaser is no exception! C On Sep 19, 2008, at 4:00 PM, jforjames at aol.com wrote: > http://www.brooklynrail.org/2008/09/books/raising-poetry > NONFICTION: Raising Poetry > by Sharon Mesmer > > Craig Dworkin, ed., The Consequence of Innovation: 21st Century > Poetics (Roof Books, 2008) > > The problem with poetry these days isn?t the literary magazines run > by pharmaceutical industry businessmen, or the grants granted by > pharmaceutical industry heiresses, or even the grant-granting > bodies composed of pharmo-conservo-politicos (and heiresses). And > it?s not all the writing about writing, either, or even the writing > about the writing about the writing (which, okay, can get > annoying). It?s the poetry about the writing about the writing > about the writing. > > Poetry has become an overscheduled toddler run ragged by ambitious, > bickering parents, its very existence a compromised simulacrum of > their disharmonious projections and expectations > Find phone numbers fast with the New AOL Yellow Pages! > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jfq Fri Sep 19 21:03:26 2008 From: jfq (Jason Quackenbush) Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2008 18:03:26 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] poetics is childish In-Reply-To: <8CAE8C2B0724E27-1024-362E@WEBMAIL-DC16.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CAE8C2B0724E27-1024-362E@WEBMAIL-DC16.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <07EA17DF-EBB6-4F74-B97B-3627B9CB0267@myuw.net> it's interesting, but i still think Christian Wiman is a bigger threat to poetry than poetry about theory. On Sep 19, 2008, at 4:00 PM, jforjames at aol.com wrote: > > http://www.brooklynrail.org/2008/09/books/raising-poetry > > NONFICTION: Raising Poetry > by Sharon Mesmer > > Craig Dworkin, ed., The Consequence of Innovation: 21st Century > Poetics (Roof Books, 2008) > > The problem with poetry these days isn?t the literary magazines run > by pharmaceutical industry businessmen, or the grants granted by > pharmaceutical industry heiresses, or even the grant-granting > bodies composed of pharmo-conservo-politicos (and heiresses). And > it?s not all the writing about writing, either, or even the writing > about the writing about the writing (which, okay, can get > annoying). It?s the poetry about the writing about the writing > about the writing. > > Poetry has become an overscheduled toddler run ragged by ambitious, > bickering parents, its very existence a compromised simulacrum of > their disharmonious projections and expectations > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry Jason Quackenbush jfq at myuw.net From Opus40-01 Sat Sep 20 09:07:29 2008 From: Opus40-01 (TheOldMole) Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2008 09:07:29 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] my favorite today after da gleaning In-Reply-To: <4b65c2d70809191115s1d4ccc29xb860026e4b2b1b3f@mail.gmail.com> References: <4b65c2d70809191115s1d4ccc29xb860026e4b2b1b3f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <48D4F591.7020805@opus40.org> Do you have to do that first? Anny Ballardini wrote: > The first qualification to become a great composer is undoubtedly to > be already dead. > > > * *Il primo requisito per diventare un grande compositore ?, senza > dubbio, quello di essere gi? deceduto. > > > /Arthur Honegger/ > > > -- > Anny Ballardini > http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ > http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome > http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html > I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a > dancing star! > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ The moral is this: in American verse, The better you are, the pay is worse. --Corey Ford From halvard Sat Sep 20 09:36:59 2008 From: halvard (Halvard Johnson) Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2008 08:36:59 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] my favorite today after da gleaning In-Reply-To: <48D4F591.7020805@opus40.org> References: <4b65c2d70809191115s1d4ccc29xb860026e4b2b1b3f@mail.gmail.com> <48D4F591.7020805@opus40.org> Message-ID: Ideally. Hal McCain / Palin -- Just say thanks but no thanks. They're a bridge to nowhere. Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at earthlink.net halvard at gmail.com http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html On Sep 20, 2008, at 8:07 AM, TheOldMole wrote: > Do you have to do that first? > > Anny Ballardini wrote: >> The first qualification to become a great composer is undoubtedly >> to be already dead. >> >> >> * *Il primo requisito per diventare un grande compositore ?, senza >> dubbio, quello di essere gi? deceduto. >> >> > /Arthur Honegger/ >> >> >> -- >> Anny Ballardini >> http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ >> http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome >> http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html >> I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a >> dancing star! >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> > > -- > Tad Richards > http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ > http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ > > The moral is this: in American verse, > The better you are, the pay is worse. > --Corey Ford > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From anny.ballardini Sat Sep 20 11:58:31 2008 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2008 17:58:31 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] my favorite today after da gleaning In-Reply-To: References: <4b65c2d70809191115s1d4ccc29xb860026e4b2b1b3f@mail.gmail.com> <48D4F591.7020805@opus40.org> Message-ID: <4b65c2d70809200858o580e739fh13d39792a6302447@mail.gmail.com> Not Idealistically On Sat, Sep 20, 2008 at 3:36 PM, Halvard Johnson wrote: > Ideally. > > Hal > > McCain / Palin -- Just say thanks but no thanks. > They're a bridge to nowhere. > > Halvard Johnson > ================ > halvard at earthlink.net > halvard at gmail.com > http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > http://www.hamiltonstone.org > http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html > > > > > On Sep 20, 2008, at 8:07 AM, TheOldMole wrote: > > Do you have to do that first? >> >> Anny Ballardini wrote: >> >>> The first qualification to become a great composer is undoubtedly to be >>> already dead. >>> >>> >>> * *Il primo requisito per diventare un grande compositore ?, senza >>> dubbio, quello di essere gi? deceduto. >>> >>> > /Arthur Honegger/ >>> >>> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini Sat Sep 20 12:00:17 2008 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2008 18:00:17 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Magellan Message-ID: <4b65c2d70809200900j2550851ek2c82e3173a5cf401@mail.gmail.com> from Keillor's Almanac: It was on this day in 1519 that *Ferdinand Magellan departed on the first successful circumnavigation of the world*, although Magellan himself didn't live to see the end of the expedition. He was looking for a westward route to the spice markets of the Indies. He was Portuguese, but the king of Portugal refused to fund his expedition, so he convinced the teenaged king of Spain, Charles I, to sponsor him, and he told Charles that he would make Spain the richest nation on earth. He set off with five ships and 270 men. The Spanish captains didn't trust Magellan because he was Portuguese, a foreigner, and three of them plotted to kill Magellan. He stopped the mutiny by imprisoning the ringleader, Cartagena, aboard a different ship. They reached South America by December and spent the winter in Patagonia, where one of the captains freed Cartagena, and they led another mutiny. Magellan marooned Cartagena in Patagonia, executed the remaining rebels, and set off to look for a passage to the other side of the continent. In May, one of his ships was wrecked in bad weather, but the other four sailed through a strait that Magellan named All Saints' ? it was later renamed the Strait of Magellan. It took them 38 days to make it through the strait, and during that time, one of the ships' captains turned his ship around to sail back to Spain, taking with him most of the provisions for the whole fleet. But the remaining three ships got to the other side and emerged into the ocean, and Magellan named the ocean the Pacific because it was so calm. Magellan thought the Pacific was small; he thought they could cross it and reach the Spice Islands in two or three days. But it actually took four months. They arrived in the Philippines in March of 1521. Magellan made friends with a local king, agreed to help him attack the neighboring island, and was killed during the battle with that tribe. There were three ships left, and 115 men. After Magellan died, Sebastian del Cano took over as captain, and since there weren't enough men left to crew three ships, he had one of the ships burned. They left the Philippines in May and made it to the Moluccas, the Spice Islands, six months later. Del Cano wanted to make sure that at least one ship made it back to Spain, so he sent one back, east across the Pacific, and the other one continued west. The eastward-bound ship was attacked by the Portuguese, who killed most of the crew. The westward-bound ship crossed the Indian Ocean, sailed around the Cape of Good Hope, and arrived in Spain almost three years after it had departed with Magellan. One ship and 18 men were all that remained, but it was the first vessel to circumnavigate the globe. Most of what we know about the voyage comes from an Italian crewmember named Antonio Pigafetta, who was a supporter of Magellan and kept a detailed diary. He was also one of the 18 men to survive the journey. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cervantes.james Sat Sep 20 12:59:07 2008 From: cervantes.james (James Cervantes) Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2008 09:59:07 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] my favorite today after da gleaning In-Reply-To: <4b65c2d70809200858o580e739fh13d39792a6302447@mail.gmail.com> References: <4b65c2d70809191115s1d4ccc29xb860026e4b2b1b3f@mail.gmail.com> <48D4F591.7020805@opus40.org> <4b65c2d70809200858o580e739fh13d39792a6302447@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <648208b60809200959q307f2935ve6cccccd41d6ea39@mail.gmail.com> Fatalistically? And, of course, actuarially. But let's not forget supercalifragilistically. - Jim On Sat, Sep 20, 2008 at 8:58 AM, Anny Ballardini wrote: > > Not Idealistically > > On Sat, Sep 20, 2008 at 3:36 PM, Halvard Johnson wrote: >> >> Ideally. >> >> Hal >> >> McCain / Palin -- Just say thanks but no thanks. >> They're a bridge to nowhere. >> >> Halvard Johnson >> ================ >> halvard at earthlink.net >> halvard at gmail.com >> http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html >> http://entropyandme.blogspot.com >> http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com >> http://www.hamiltonstone.org >> http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html >> >> >> >> On Sep 20, 2008, at 8:07 AM, TheOldMole wrote: >> >>> Do you have to do that first? >>> >>> Anny Ballardini wrote: >>>> >>>> The first qualification to become a great composer is undoubtedly to be already dead. >>>> >>>> >>>> * *Il primo requisito per diventare un grande compositore ?, senza dubbio, quello di essere gi? deceduto. >>>> >>>> > /Arthur Honegger/ >>>> > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning http://www.fieralingue.it/documenti/mr_bondo.pdf http://www.poetserv.org/jvc/home/index.html http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamescervantes/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From oedipa Sun Sep 21 03:36:50 2008 From: oedipa (karen) Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2008 03:36:50 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] poetics is childish In-Reply-To: <07EA17DF-EBB6-4F74-B97B-3627B9CB0267@myuw.net> References: <8CAE8C2B0724E27-1024-362E@WEBMAIL-DC16.sysops.aol.com> <07EA17DF-EBB6-4F74-B97B-3627B9CB0267@myuw.net> Message-ID: >On Fri, Sep 19, 2008 at 9:03 PM, Jason Quackenbush wrote: >it's interesting, but i still think Christian Wiman is a bigger threat to poetry than poetry about theory. Why? I'm curious about your statement about Wiman here. Not because I'm a Wiman loyalist, but because it is a provocative thing to just throw out there. The underpinnings of it seem to imply everyone on this list has some sort of inside information on Wiman that would make this true. Which I personally don't. Even though I'm a UMASS MFA'r and work with Jim Tate and get to hang with the Cool Kids of PostModern Poetry. Yet, I still find opinions about everything poetry seem to change yearly within the halls of academia. However, from what I've seen of Wiman as of late, he's been trying to bring Poetry Magazine back from the brink of the tedious and dated Narrative Poems they cleaved to for so long. Granted, they still publish narratives...and hey, I stand guilty of still liking many narrative poems....perhaps, omg!, even writing a few myself. Though I find breaking free of the form liberating too. I guess what I am trying to say is I think they are reaching out more. I have enjoyed Atsuro Riley's work immensley, for instance. As well as Kay Ryan (and yes, I've seen your opinions of her voiced here...so my mention of her may not help at all). And though I'm on a grad student budget and can't afford the yearly subscriptions, I will say, I'll take Poetry over Octopus any day. Octopus leaves me feeling cold and disconnected on a regular basis. Although, they DO have really smart reviews. Still, I'm seeing an effort on Poetry's part to change it up. Yes, I know....albeit slowly but surely. I don't like all the poems in there. But what review does meet that high water mark anyway? None in recent history I can think of.... But hey, I probably don't really know what I'm talking about in the end. My ears just perked up on your blanket statement about Wiman...which I'm sure everyone on this list gets except for me. Or maybe not? Karen > > On Sep 19, 2008, at 4:00 PM, jforjames at aol.com wrote: > > >> http://www.brooklynrail.org/2008/09/books/raising-poetry >> >> NONFICTION: Raising Poetry >> by Sharon Mesmer >> >> Craig Dworkin, ed., The Consequence of Innovation: 21st Century Poetics >> (Roof Books, 2008) >> >> The problem with poetry these days isn't the literary magazines run by >> pharmaceutical industry businessmen, or the grants granted by pharmaceutical >> industry heiresses, or even the grant-granting bodies composed of >> pharmo-conservo-politicos (and heiresses). And it's not all the writing >> about writing, either, or even the writing about the writing about the >> writing (which, okay, can get annoying). It's the poetry about the writing >> about the writing about the writing. >> >> Poetry has become an overscheduled toddler run ragged by ambitious, >> bickering parents, its very existence a compromised simulacrum of their >> disharmonious projections and expectations >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> > > Jason Quackenbush > jfq at myuw.net > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini Sun Sep 21 06:30:53 2008 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2008 12:30:53 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] op-ed Message-ID: <4b65c2d70809210330v558ced66r65d8ba65a84460d5@mail.gmail.com> Keillor again explaing the origin of Op-eds: It was on this day in 1970 that the first modern op-ed page appeared in *The New York Times*. People sometimes think that "op-ed" stands for "opinion-editorial," but it actually stands for "opposite the editorial page." Op-eds began in the 1920s, but they were forums for newspapers' columnists, not for outside writers. The modern op-ed was created by *New York Times* journalist John Bertram Oakes. Oakes received a commentary letter that he thought was excellent, but it was too long to print as a letter to the editor, and it couldn't be published in the op-ed page since it wasn't by a columnist. So he got the idea for an op-ed page that would include outside opinions. Oakes spent 10 years trying to convince publishers that is was good idea. Finally the *Times* editors agreed, and published the first version, and it's become the model for op-ed pages worldwide. -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini Sun Sep 21 06:32:20 2008 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2008 12:32:20 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] David Foster Wallace Message-ID: <4b65c2d70809210332v64dcd1a6y6e08c0102e03f3be@mail.gmail.com> In this moment on the Front Page of The New York Times: http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/21/weekinreview/21scott.html?hp a well-written article by A.O.Scott. -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Opus40-01 Sun Sep 21 11:02:22 2008 From: Opus40-01 (TheOldMole) Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2008 11:02:22 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] poetics is childish In-Reply-To: References: <8CAE8C2B0724E27-1024-362E@WEBMAIL-DC16.sysops.aol.com> <07EA17DF-EBB6-4F74-B97B-3627B9CB0267@myuw.net> Message-ID: <48D661FE.4060301@opus40.org> Go back and read the first issues of Harriet Monroe's Poetry Magazine -- http://dl.lib.brown.edu:8081/exist/mjp/show_issue.xq?id=1201876985640625 -- and see how much of it you like, how much of it would have been a "threat to poetry" by the terms of that days Quackenbushes or Grummans -- how much of it is tedious and dated by that day's standards -- how much of it, for that matter, is even vaguely modernist. Meanwhile, I'll go on writing my narrative poems. I like stories, and I like to tell them. And meanwhile, on Ron Silliman's blog, he praises the work of Joe Wenderoth, who seems to me to deserve his praise, and also criticizes it, for reasons that seem valid to me. He quotes one poem: *What Does Death Insure* death insures that one will never hear again the sound of a small plane sketched out in the sand of a windless summer afternoon He praises it for being "crafted with an exact eye & a strong sense of when to stop," with which I agree, and he cavils on the word "summer" as an example of when Wenderoth sometimes /doesn't/ know where to stop, with which I'd also agree. But what I don't understand is why Silliman associates "summer" in the poem with "the clich?s of the School of Quietude." In this case, because it's in a School of Noisitude poem, why isn't it a clich? of the School of Noisitude? And why does Silliman assume that "summer" would have been any more appropriate in a School of Quietude poem? A clich? is a clich?, we unfortunately all use them from time to time, and we all try not to. But what I don't understand is why is this a School of Noisitude poem anyway? What distinguishes it from the School of Quietude? It has narrative elements -- are they OK here because it's School of Noisitude? My first inspiration as a poet was Leadbelly, and he's remained a powerful inspiration over the years, and what drew me to him was his sense of how much narrative is driven by what's left out. My later teachers and role models were Donald Justice and Donald Finkel, probably both as associated as anyone with the SOQ, and both of whom had -- and encouraged -- an exact eye and a strong sense of where to stop. So what's the difference? Why is the striving for an exact eye and a strong sense of where to stop a threat to poetry when practiced by me and my ilk, and a blow against the establishment when practiced by a practitioner of the SON? karen wrote: > > >On Fri, Sep 19, 2008 at 9:03 PM, Jason Quackenbush > wrote: > >it's interesting, but i still think Christian Wiman is a bigger > threat to poetry than poetry about theory. > > Why? > > I'm curious about your statement about Wiman here. Not because I'm a > Wiman loyalist, but because it is a provocative thing to just throw > out there. The underpinnings of it seem to imply everyone on this > list has some sort of inside information on Wiman that would make this > true. Which I personally don't. Even though I'm a UMASS MFA'r and > work with Jim Tate and get to hang with the Cool Kids of PostModern > Poetry. Yet, I still find opinions about everything poetry seem to > change yearly within the halls of academia. > > However, from what I've seen of Wiman as of late, he's been trying to > bring Poetry Magazine back from the brink of the tedious and dated > Narrative Poems they cleaved to for so long. Granted, they still > publish narratives...and hey, I stand guilty of still liking many > narrative poems....perhaps, omg!, even writing a few myself. Though > I find breaking free of the form liberating too. > > I guess what I am trying to say is I think they are reaching out > more. I have enjoyed Atsuro Riley's work immensley, for instance. As > well as Kay Ryan (and yes, I've seen your opinions of her voiced > here...so my mention of her may not help at all). > > And though I'm on a grad student budget and can't afford the yearly > subscriptions, I will say, I'll take Poetry over Octopus any day. > Octopus leaves me feeling cold and disconnected on a regular basis. > Although, they DO have really smart reviews. > > Still, I'm seeing an effort on Poetry's part to change it up. Yes, I > know....albeit slowly but surely. I don't like all the poems in > there. But what review does meet that high water mark anyway? None > in recent history I can think of.... > > But hey, I probably don't really know what I'm talking about in the > end. My ears just perked up on your blanket statement about > Wiman...which I'm sure everyone on this list gets except for me. Or > maybe not? > > Karen > > > > > > On Sep 19, 2008, at 4:00 PM, jforjames at aol.com > wrote: > > > http://www.brooklynrail.org/2008/09/books/raising-poetry > > NONFICTION: Raising Poetry > by Sharon Mesmer > > Craig Dworkin, ed., The Consequence of Innovation: 21st > Century Poetics (Roof Books, 2008) > > The problem with poetry these days isn't the literary > magazines run by pharmaceutical industry businessmen, or the > grants granted by pharmaceutical industry heiresses, or even > the grant-granting bodies composed of > pharmo-conservo-politicos (and heiresses). And it's not all > the writing about writing, either, or even the writing about > the writing about the writing (which, okay, can get annoying). > It's the poetry about the writing about the writing about the > writing. > > Poetry has become an overscheduled toddler run ragged by > ambitious, bickering parents, its very existence a compromised > simulacrum of their disharmonious projections and expectations > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > Jason Quackenbush > jfq at myuw.net > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ The moral is this: in American verse, The better you are, the pay is worse. --Corey Ford From jfq Sun Sep 21 11:40:00 2008 From: jfq (Jason Quackenbush) Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2008 08:40:00 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] poetics is childish In-Reply-To: References: <8CAE8C2B0724E27-1024-362E@WEBMAIL-DC16.sysops.aol.com> <07EA17DF-EBB6-4F74-B97B-3627B9CB0267@myuw.net> Message-ID: Wiman is a threat because he's stumbled undeservedly into a very potent seat from which he may anoint kings and direct tastes. I don't by any stretch think he is the greatest threat, but if you buy into that particular part of Silliman's School of Quietude argument, and there are times when i find it persuasive, then Poetry Magazine's recent dances with the likes of Rae Armentrout and Charles Bernstein are precisely the sort of thing that's to be expected as the previous generation's post/avants become coopted by School of Quietude writers whose actual forebearers didn't actually do much of note that's worth preserving as part of literary history. As such, as the Language poets start hitting medicare age over the next few years, you're going to start seeing happen with them the bronzing that's already taken place with the Beats, Olson's circle, and the first two New York School generations. I'm curious to see what happens with our generation though. Things have gotten so fragmented lately that I have a hard time finding any real "movement" in the realm of Bob's otherstream. To a certain extent there's the institutionalization of AWP and the slam thing, but those are opposite ends of the spectrum, and like with most things, most of the poets and poetry produced by both threads in the contemporary poetry tapestry really really suck. If i ruled the world, there'd be no more creative writing MFAs and slam poets would have to learn to write from people other than eachother. And they'd have to learn to read. and get lessons in literary history with a test to be passed before they were allowed to get onstage. but that wouldn't make poetry better, it would just make the bad poetry different. Another problem is the proliferation of presses and academic journals all of which are publishing the same nepotistic bullshit as every other press and journal. There are bright spots, of course. Mark Leidner somehow got "The Night of 1000 Murders" published by playing the MFA game, and it's the best chapbook that's ever been printed in my opinion. Brian Kim Stefans and Justin Katko through being a great critics and generally adopting the idea of performance poetry as conceptual art have managed to get their names out there. Jessica Smith is full of ambitious projects and manages to get respect the old fashioned way by writing really well. Adam Fieled functions by being very insightful as a critic while being sort of oppressively varied prolific in his output. At least that's how i tend to feel about him. I don't know if anybody else does. Ragan Fox, Karyna McGlynn and Jeremy Richards are slam famous and get along by being smart and funny in the middle of a field that often is dumb and repetitive, while at the same time keeping their academy/writerly creds all crips and shiny. At the same time, Megan O'Reilly, who is the assitant editor at Rattle and a brilliant and sensitive poet is having a hell of a time getting a manuscript placed. Geoff Gatza, whose blazeVox is probably the only publisher of "otherstream" poetry that I feel trully devoted to, seems to be constantly struggling to keep his press afloat when really if the world was just it would recognize blazeVox as our generations City Lights or Black Sparrow. So really, I think maybe it's just that the poetry world needs people like Grumman, and me in his long shadow, to be sort of cranky and dissatisfied about things, just as much as maybe it needs people like you who think quite possibly all is well. -J Quackenbush PS I have on occasion thought violent thoughts while reading Tate. People love Tate, Tate is everybody's hero, but try to tell people that "Nothing in That Drawer" or "People of the Future" is a brilliant poem and you have to throw down. Poetry fame is first and foremost always already unfair is I'm sure the right answer, but still... On Sep 21, 2008, at 12:36 AM, karen wrote: > > >On Fri, Sep 19, 2008 at 9:03 PM, Jason Quackenbush > wrote: > >it's interesting, but i still think Christian Wiman is a bigger > threat to poetry than poetry about theory. > > Why? > > I'm curious about your statement about Wiman here. Not because I'm > a Wiman loyalist, but because it is a provocative thing to just > throw out there. The underpinnings of it seem to imply everyone on > this list has some sort of inside information on Wiman that would > make this true. Which I personally don't. Even though I'm a UMASS > MFA'r and work with Jim Tate and get to hang with the Cool Kids of > PostModern Poetry. Yet, I still find opinions about everything > poetry seem to change yearly within the halls of academia. > > However, from what I've seen of Wiman as of late, he's been trying > to bring Poetry Magazine back from the brink of the tedious and > dated Narrative Poems they cleaved to for so long. Granted, they > still publish narratives...and hey, I stand guilty of still liking > many narrative poems....perhaps, omg!, even writing a few myself. > Though I find breaking free of the form liberating too. > > I guess what I am trying to say is I think they are reaching out > more. I have enjoyed Atsuro Riley's work immensley, for instance. > As well as Kay Ryan (and yes, I've seen your opinions of her voiced > here...so my mention of her may not help at all). > > And though I'm on a grad student budget and can't afford the yearly > subscriptions, I will say, I'll take Poetry over Octopus any day. > Octopus leaves me feeling cold and disconnected on a regular > basis. Although, they DO have really smart reviews. > > Still, I'm seeing an effort on Poetry's part to change it up. Yes, > I know....albeit slowly but surely. I don't like all the poems in > there. But what review does meet that high water mark anyway? > None in recent history I can think of.... > > But hey, I probably don't really know what I'm talking about in the > end. My ears just perked up on your blanket statement about > Wiman...which I'm sure everyone on this list gets except for me. > Or maybe not? > > Karen > > > > > > On Sep 19, 2008, at 4:00 PM, jforjames at aol.com wrote: > > > http://www.brooklynrail.org/2008/09/books/raising-poetry > > NONFICTION: Raising Poetry > by Sharon Mesmer > > Craig Dworkin, ed., The Consequence of Innovation: 21st Century > Poetics (Roof Books, 2008) > > The problem with poetry these days isn't the literary magazines run > by pharmaceutical industry businessmen, or the grants granted by > pharmaceutical industry heiresses, or even the grant-granting > bodies composed of pharmo-conservo-politicos (and heiresses). And > it's not all the writing about writing, either, or even the writing > about the writing about the writing (which, okay, can get > annoying). It's the poetry about the writing about the writing > about the writing. > > Poetry has become an overscheduled toddler run ragged by ambitious, > bickering parents, its very existence a compromised simulacrum of > their disharmonious projections and expectations > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > Jason Quackenbush > jfq at myuw.net > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry Jason Quackenbush jfq at myuw.net -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rog3r.day Sun Sep 21 11:42:26 2008 From: rog3r.day (Roger Day) Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2008 16:42:26 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] poetics is childish In-Reply-To: <48D661FE.4060301@opus40.org> References: <8CAE8C2B0724E27-1024-362E@WEBMAIL-DC16.sysops.aol.com> <07EA17DF-EBB6-4F74-B97B-3627B9CB0267@myuw.net> <48D661FE.4060301@opus40.org> Message-ID: I'm not trying to be a troll here - I *am* interested in the answer - but why chose poems to tell stories? Aren't there better ways to tell stories? By using a poem as the vehicle for narrative, isn't it a call to nostalgia? Roger On Sun, Sep 21, 2008 at 4:02 PM, TheOldMole wrote: > Go back and read the first issues of Harriet Monroe's Poetry Magazine -- > http://dl.lib.brown.edu:8081/exist/mjp/show_issue.xq?id=1201876985640625 -- > and see how much of it you like, how much of it would have been a "threat to > poetry" by the terms of that days Quackenbushes or Grummans -- how much of > it is tedious and dated by that day's standards -- how much of it, for that > matter, is even vaguely modernist. > > Meanwhile, I'll go on writing my narrative poems. I like stories, and I like > to tell them. -- My Stuff: http://www.badstep.net/ "I began to warm and chill to objects and their fields" Nick Cave & The Bad Seeds From rog3r.day Sun Sep 21 11:45:44 2008 From: rog3r.day (Roger Day) Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2008 16:45:44 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] poetics is childish In-Reply-To: References: <8CAE8C2B0724E27-1024-362E@WEBMAIL-DC16.sysops.aol.com> <07EA17DF-EBB6-4F74-B97B-3627B9CB0267@myuw.net> <48D661FE.4060301@opus40.org> Message-ID: Sorry - I missed the bit about Leadbelly - even so, why model yourself on a redundant manner? Roger On Sun, Sep 21, 2008 at 4:42 PM, Roger Day wrote: > I'm not trying to be a troll here - I *am* interested in the answer - > but why chose poems to tell stories? Aren't there better ways to tell > stories? By using a poem as the vehicle for narrative, isn't it a call > to nostalgia? > > Roger > > On Sun, Sep 21, 2008 at 4:02 PM, TheOldMole wrote: >> Go back and read the first issues of Harriet Monroe's Poetry Magazine -- >> http://dl.lib.brown.edu:8081/exist/mjp/show_issue.xq?id=1201876985640625 -- >> and see how much of it you like, how much of it would have been a "threat to >> poetry" by the terms of that days Quackenbushes or Grummans -- how much of >> it is tedious and dated by that day's standards -- how much of it, for that >> matter, is even vaguely modernist. >> >> Meanwhile, I'll go on writing my narrative poems. I like stories, and I like >> to tell them. > > -- > My Stuff: http://www.badstep.net/ > "I began to warm and chill > to objects and their fields" > Nick Cave & The Bad Seeds > -- My Stuff: http://www.badstep.net/ "I began to warm and chill to objects and their fields" Nick Cave & The Bad Seeds From jforjames Sun Sep 21 11:45:51 2008 From: jforjames (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2008 11:45:51 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] poetics is childish In-Reply-To: References: <8CAE8C2B0724E27-1024-362E@WEBMAIL-DC16.sysops.aol.com><07EA17DF-EBB6-4F74-B97B-3627B9CB0267@myuw.net> Message-ID: <8CAEA1842A236B7-C88-18DD@FWM-D20.sysops.aol.com> Karen, I agree that the Wiman era of Poetry has been a breath of fresh air. The magazine is a?vast improvement over what it was during the Parisi tenure, and before him Nims. All literary magazines have their faults but Poetry has?spurred debate, mixed things up, improved its reviewing, and become more eclectic in its poetry selections, etc. However, when a literary entity broadens its boundaries, it's not necessarily going to please/capture those with narrower tastes. Some of in-crowd?feel shut out. Others worry or about its intentions, or accuse it of pandering, or feel their 'outsider' status is has been co opted, etc.?No magazine can be?all things?to all people, esp. when it comes to poets.? Some of the jaundiced-eye cocked toward the?Poetry Foundation (the uber-org behind the magazine) is the suspicion that?such a? large, well-funded?literary enterprise will?get control of the debate of tastes, will short sell competing interests (to use a term that has come to the fore of late), will take?to much attention for itself, and?puff its pet projects to the loss of alternative initiatives,?etc. I think that's something to be vigilant?about, but I'm not particularly worried about Poetry Foundation domination. The other large circulation poetry magazine, APR, has certainly been overshadowed by Poetry in the last 5 years of so? I wonder why it hasn't moved to 'reinvent' itself. Perhaps its just money. They don't have it, Poetry does. Finnegan` -----Original Message----- From: karen Sent: Sun, 21 Sep 2008 3:36 am Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] poetics is childish >On Fri, Sep 19, 2008 at 9:03 PM, Jason Quackenbush wrote: >it's interesting, but i still think Christian Wiman is a bigger threat to poetry than poetry about theory. Why?? I'm curious about your statement about Wiman here.? Not because I'm a Wiman loyalist, but because it is a provocative thing to just throw out there.? The underpinnings of it seem to imply everyone on this list has some sort of inside information on Wiman that would make this true. Which I personally don't.? Even though I'm a UMASS MFA'r and work with Jim Tate and get to hang with the Cool Kids of PostModern Poetry.? Yet, I still find opinions about everything poetry seem to change yearly within the halls of academia. However, from what I've seen of Wiman as of late, he's been trying to bring Poetry Magazine back from the brink of the tedious and dated Narrative Poems they cleaved to for so long.? Granted, they still publish narratives...and hey, I stand guilty of still liking many narrative poems....perhaps, omg!,? even writing a few myself.? Though I find breaking free of the form liberating too.? I guess what I am trying to say is I think they are reaching out more.? I have enjoyed Atsuro Riley's work immensley, for instance.? As well as Kay Ryan (and yes, I've seen your opinions of her voiced here...so my mention of her may not help at all).? And though I'm on a grad student budget and can't afford the yearly subscriptions, I will say, I'll take Poetry over Octopus any day.? Octopus leaves me feeling cold and disconnected on a regular basis.? Although, they DO have really smart reviews. Still, I'm seeing an effort on Poetry's part to change it up.? Yes, I know....albeit slowly but surely. I don't like all the poems in there.? But what review does meet that high water mark anyway??? None in recent history I can think of.... But hey, I probably don't really know what I'm talking about in the end.? My ears just perked up on your blanket statement about Wiman...which I'm sure everyone on this list gets except for me.? Or maybe not? Karen -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd Sun Sep 21 11:48:13 2008 From: grahamd (David Graham) Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2008 10:48:13 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: poetics is childish In-Reply-To: References: <8CAE8C2B0724E27-1024-362E@WEBMAIL-DC16.sysops.aol.com> <07EA17DF-EBB6-4F74-B97B-3627B9CB0267@myuw.net> Message-ID: <602FEFDC-6BE1-43D0-AC27-7D452F6465BD@ripon.edu> Gary Snyder once remarked in an essay or interview that he wasn't terribly interested in cultural developments after the Neolithic, a notion that still makes me smile probably thirty years later. Whenever I dip my toe into the poetic blogosphere I discover furious debates about hot journals, current poets, editorial folly, po-biz politics, and so forth. Even if I had the time to get fully engaged (as I did long ago when I was in grad school and we had these debates over coffee and beer, not our laptops)--I guess I'm rapidly evolving to the Snyder view. It just doesn't matter to me who's in fashion. I know this is a sign of full-fledged fogeyism, but there it is. And I note that, with many notable and honorable exceptions, the bloggers often have very little to say about poetry written more than five years ago. Sometimes it's five days ago. Which among other things is a screaming limitation of this *kind* of debate, in its usual forms. I'm not one to look down my nose at shop talk and gossip, but let's not mistake it for something it's not. I don't see much reason to pay attention to the opinions of any critic who doesn't demonstrate a long view of things. You don't have to go back to the Neolithic, true, but it's nice when the arguments aren't mere unwitting re-hashes of earlier debates. As for narrative itself being "dated," "outmoded" or whatever, I think that very possibly a longer look at literary history might provide a quick cure for such nonsense. ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.mac.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames Sun Sep 21 12:00:42 2008 From: jforjames (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2008 12:00:42 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] poetics is childish In-Reply-To: References: <8CAE8C2B0724E27-1024-362E@WEBMAIL-DC16.sysops.aol.com><07EA17DF-EBB6-4F74-B97B-3627B9CB0267@myuw.net><48D661FE.4060301@opus40.org> Message-ID: <8CAEA1A556BAA33-C88-1953@FWM-D20.sysops.aol.com> Roger, Are you trying to say narrative or story-telling is dead/outmoded? I don't see any evidence of it. Is poetry to be left with the?lyric, the meditative, the conceptual modes? Some good work going on in the poetic?parable genre, esp. among prose poets, which is closely related to?narrative. Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: Roger Day Sent: Sun, 21 Sep 2008 11:45 am Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] poetics is childish Sorry - I missed the bit about Leadbelly - even so, why model yourself on a redundant manner? Roger On Sun, Sep 21, 2008 at 4:42 PM, Roger Day wrote: > I'm not trying to be a troll here - I *am* interested in the answer - > but why chose poems to tell stories? Aren't there better ways to tell > stories? By using a poem as the vehicle for narrative, isn't it a call > to nostalgia? > > Roger > > On Sun, Sep 21, 2008 at 4:02 PM, TheOldMole wrote: >> Go back and read the first issues of Harriet Monroe's Poetry Magazine -- >> http://dl.lib.brown.edu:8081/exist/mjp/show_issue.xq?id=1201876985640625 -- >> and see how much of it you like, how much of it would have been a "threat to >> poetry" by the terms of that days Quackenbushes or Grummans -- how much of >> it is tedious and dated by that day's standards -- how much of it, for that >> matter, is even vaguely modernist. >> >> Meanwhile, I'll go on writing my narrative poems. I like stories, and I like >> to tell them. > > -- > My Stuff: http://www.badstep.net/ > "I began to warm and chill > to objects and their fields" > Nick Cave & The Bad Seeds > -- My Stuff: http://www.badstep.net/ "I began to warm and chill to objects and their fields" Nick Cave & The Bad Seeds _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman Sun Sep 21 13:09:51 2008 From: bobgrumman (Bob Grumman) Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2008 12:09:51 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] poetics is childish In-Reply-To: References: <8CAE8C2B0724E27-1024-362E@WEBMAIL-DC16.sysops.aol.com><07EA17DF-EBB6-4F74-B97B-3627B9CB0267@myuw.net> Message-ID: <48D67FDF.3050006@nut-n-but.net> > >it's interesting, but i still think Christian Wiman is a bigger > threat to poetry than poetry about theory. > > Why? Jason gave his answer (from out of my "long shadow," which it was nice of him to say). I pretty much agree with it, but wanted to throw in a small answer of my own. It is simply that from what Wiman has written about poetry (as I vaguely remember it), and what he's mostly published in his magazine, my problem with him is that he is committed too narrowly to poetry that would have been considered conservative in 1950. As I keep having to say, I have nothing much against such poetry, but feel that too little is being done for my kind of poetry--basically visual, infra-verbal and mathematical poetry--and other kinds of otherstream poetry I frankly don't know too much about like cyber-poetry, sound poetry, language poetry other than infra-verbal poetry (which I consider a form of language poetry), and what I call contra-genteel poetry (basically work by Bukowski's followers). Poetry magazine could do a lot of good for such poetry by regularly printing it, and-- more important--allowing people who know something about it to discuss it critically on its pages. I happen to be all for the establishment's "appropriating" rebels, so I approve of Poetry's accommodating language poetry of late, even if not the best language poetry around, and (amazingly) visual poetry, a selection of which will be in an upcoming issue (but none by me). The question is whether Poetry is doing anything seriously helpful to otherstream poetry, or just tokenisming a defense against the charge of excessive narrowness. --Bob G. From Opus40-01 Sun Sep 21 12:12:27 2008 From: Opus40-01 (TheOldMole) Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2008 12:12:27 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] poetics is childish In-Reply-To: References: <8CAE8C2B0724E27-1024-362E@WEBMAIL-DC16.sysops.aol.com> <07EA17DF-EBB6-4F74-B97B-3627B9CB0267@myuw.net> <48D661FE.4060301@opus40.org> Message-ID: <48D6726B.3040904@opus40.org> I'm not quite sure what a call to nostalgia is -- an acknowledgment of tradition? I don't have a more intelligent answer to your question than that some stories feel better as poems. And -- well, I have to go back to the boring SOQ stuff. Poetry is built on lineation, so that groups of words become a part of the narrative and separate themselves out from the narrative at the same time. "The darkness outside is what the old folks have been talking about" is a beautiful line -- from Baldwin's "Sonny's Blues" -- but its cadence is the cadence of a paragraph, and it looks strange when taken out of that paragraph -- But something deep and watchful in the child knows that this is bound to end, is already ending. In a moment someone will get up and turn on the light. Then the old folks will remember the children and they won't talk any more that day. And when light fills the room, the child is filled with darkness. He knows that every time this happens he's moved just a little closer to that darkness outside. The darkness outside is what the old folks have been talking about. It's what they've come from. It's what they endure. The child knows that they won't talk any more because if he knows too much about what's happened to them, he'll know too much too soon, about what's going to happen to him. "We must love one another or die," whether Auden liked it or not, has a different relationship to the narrative. So is "Unholy battered old thing you were, my sunflower O my soul, I loved you then!" or "he stoppeth one of three" or "They enter the new world naked." And these all become narratives that work better as poems -- or maybe they don't -- maybe we just think they work better as poems because that's how we first experienced them. But maybe that doesn't really make any difference. Perception is all. Roger Day wrote: > I'm not trying to be a troll here - I *am* interested in the answer - > but why chose poems to tell stories? Aren't there better ways to tell > stories? By using a poem as the vehicle for narrative, isn't it a call > to nostalgia? > > Roger > > On Sun, Sep 21, 2008 at 4:02 PM, TheOldMole wrote: > >> Go back and read the first issues of Harriet Monroe's Poetry Magazine -- >> http://dl.lib.brown.edu:8081/exist/mjp/show_issue.xq?id=1201876985640625 -- >> and see how much of it you like, how much of it would have been a "threat to >> poetry" by the terms of that days Quackenbushes or Grummans -- how much of >> it is tedious and dated by that day's standards -- how much of it, for that >> matter, is even vaguely modernist. >> >> Meanwhile, I'll go on writing my narrative poems. I like stories, and I like >> to tell them. >> > > -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ The moral is this: in American verse, The better you are, the pay is worse. --Corey Ford From Opus40-01 Sun Sep 21 12:14:25 2008 From: Opus40-01 (TheOldMole) Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2008 12:14:25 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] poetics is childish In-Reply-To: References: <8CAE8C2B0724E27-1024-362E@WEBMAIL-DC16.sysops.aol.com> <07EA17DF-EBB6-4F74-B97B-3627B9CB0267@myuw.net> <48D661FE.4060301@opus40.org> Message-ID: <48D672E1.3090806@opus40.org> How can you do anything else? Are you suggesting you somehow separate yourself completely from everything that's gone before you? How would you do that? Roger Day wrote: > Sorry - I missed the bit about Leadbelly - even so, why model yourself > on a redundant manner? > > Roger > > On Sun, Sep 21, 2008 at 4:42 PM, Roger Day wrote: > >> I'm not trying to be a troll here - I *am* interested in the answer - >> but why chose poems to tell stories? Aren't there better ways to tell >> stories? By using a poem as the vehicle for narrative, isn't it a call >> to nostalgia? >> >> Roger >> >> On Sun, Sep 21, 2008 at 4:02 PM, TheOldMole wrote: >> >>> Go back and read the first issues of Harriet Monroe's Poetry Magazine -- >>> http://dl.lib.brown.edu:8081/exist/mjp/show_issue.xq?id=1201876985640625 -- >>> and see how much of it you like, how much of it would have been a "threat to >>> poetry" by the terms of that days Quackenbushes or Grummans -- how much of >>> it is tedious and dated by that day's standards -- how much of it, for that >>> matter, is even vaguely modernist. >>> >>> Meanwhile, I'll go on writing my narrative poems. I like stories, and I like >>> to tell them. >>> >> -- >> My Stuff: http://www.badstep.net/ >> "I began to warm and chill >> to objects and their fields" >> Nick Cave & The Bad Seeds >> >> > > > > -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ The moral is this: in American verse, The better you are, the pay is worse. --Corey Ford From jfq Sun Sep 21 12:16:47 2008 From: jfq (Jason Quackenbush) Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2008 09:16:47 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] poetics is childish In-Reply-To: <48D672E1.3090806@opus40.org> References: <8CAE8C2B0724E27-1024-362E@WEBMAIL-DC16.sysops.aol.com> <07EA17DF-EBB6-4F74-B97B-3627B9CB0267@myuw.net> <48D661FE.4060301@opus40.org> <48D672E1.3090806@opus40.org> Message-ID: Hit yourself really hard on the head with a rubber mallet until you have severe amnesia? On Sep 21, 2008, at 9:14 AM, TheOldMole wrote: > How can you do anything else? Are you suggesting you somehow > separate yourself completely from everything that's gone before > you? How would you do that? > > Roger Day wrote: >> Sorry - I missed the bit about Leadbelly - even so, why model >> yourself >> on a redundant manner? >> >> Roger >> >> On Sun, Sep 21, 2008 at 4:42 PM, Roger Day >> wrote: >> >>> I'm not trying to be a troll here - I *am* interested in the >>> answer - >>> but why chose poems to tell stories? Aren't there better ways to >>> tell >>> stories? By using a poem as the vehicle for narrative, isn't it a >>> call >>> to nostalgia? >>> >>> Roger >>> >>> On Sun, Sep 21, 2008 at 4:02 PM, TheOldMole >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Go back and read the first issues of Harriet Monroe's Poetry >>>> Magazine -- >>>> http://dl.lib.brown.edu:8081/exist/mjp/show_issue.xq? >>>> id=1201876985640625 -- >>>> and see how much of it you like, how much of it would have been >>>> a "threat to >>>> poetry" by the terms of that days Quackenbushes or Grummans -- >>>> how much of >>>> it is tedious and dated by that day's standards -- how much of >>>> it, for that >>>> matter, is even vaguely modernist. >>>> >>>> Meanwhile, I'll go on writing my narrative poems. I like >>>> stories, and I like >>>> to tell them. >>>> >>> -- >>> My Stuff: http://www.badstep.net/ >>> "I began to warm and chill >>> to objects and their fields" >>> Nick Cave & The Bad Seeds >>> >>> >> >> >> >> > > -- > Tad Richards > http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ > http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ > > The moral is this: in American verse, > The better you are, the pay is worse. > --Corey Ford > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry Jason Quackenbush jfq at myuw.net From cervantes.james Sun Sep 21 12:23:05 2008 From: cervantes.james (James Cervantes) Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2008 09:23:05 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] poetics is childish In-Reply-To: <48D661FE.4060301@opus40.org> References: <8CAE8C2B0724E27-1024-362E@WEBMAIL-DC16.sysops.aol.com> <07EA17DF-EBB6-4F74-B97B-3627B9CB0267@myuw.net> <48D661FE.4060301@opus40.org> Message-ID: <648208b60809210923y602e56ax90e40e325a4b5e73@mail.gmail.com> I'm with you on this one, Old Mole. I could start in on why I think "summer" is o.k. there. If someone like Goldbarth wrote that poem, we'd wonder where the other 39 or 139 stanzas were. I'm not enamored of narrative, which is why I like the Wenderoth poem. Like Roger Day, I wonder why anyone would not write fiction (short) or prose poems if the narrative aspect is something that they're good at. I think that it would be pure fantasy for Wiman or any other editor to think or act as if they were in a "seat of power" to crown anyone anything or direct taste. Just another subjective bar stool if you ask me, though we have to recognize that a certain style of eyewear is suddenly popular due to S. Palin. - Jim On Sun, Sep 21, 2008 at 8:02 AM, TheOldMole wrote: > Go back and read the first issues of Harriet Monroe's Poetry Magazine -- > http://dl.lib.brown.edu:8081/exist/mjp/show_issue.xq?id=1201876985640625-- and see how much of it you like, how much of it would have been a "threat > to poetry" by the terms of that days Quackenbushes or Grummans -- how much > of it is tedious and dated by that day's standards -- how much of it, for > that matter, is even vaguely modernist. > > Meanwhile, I'll go on writing my narrative poems. I like stories, and I > like to tell them. > > And meanwhile, on Ron Silliman's blog, he praises the work of Joe > Wenderoth, who seems to me to deserve his praise, and also criticizes it, > for reasons that seem valid to me. He quotes one poem: > > *What Does Death Insure* > > death insures > that one will never hear > again > the sound of a small plane > sketched out in the sand > of a windless summer afternoon > > He praises it for being "crafted with an exact eye & a strong sense of when > to stop," with which I agree, and he cavils on the word "summer" as an > example of when Wenderoth sometimes /doesn't/ know where to stop, with which > I'd also agree. > > But what I don't understand is why Silliman associates "summer" in the poem > with "the clich?s of the School of Quietude." In this case, because it's in > a School of Noisitude poem, why isn't it a clich? of the School of > Noisitude? And why does Silliman assume that "summer" would have been any > more appropriate in a School of Quietude poem? A clich? is a clich?, we > unfortunately all use them from time to time, and we all try not to. > > But what I don't understand is why is this a School of Noisitude poem > anyway? What distinguishes it from the School of Quietude? It has narrative > elements -- are they OK here because it's School of Noisitude? > > My first inspiration as a poet was Leadbelly, and he's remained a powerful > inspiration over the years, and what drew me to him was his sense of how > much narrative is driven by what's left out. My later teachers and role > models were Donald Justice and Donald Finkel, probably both as associated as > anyone with the SOQ, and both of whom had -- and encouraged -- an exact eye > and a strong sense of where to stop. So what's the difference? Why is the > striving for an exact eye and a strong sense of where to stop a threat to > poetry when practiced by me and my ilk, and a blow against the establishment > when practiced by a practitioner of the SON? > > > karen wrote: > >> >> >On Fri, Sep 19, 2008 at 9:03 PM, Jason Quackenbush > jfq at myuw.net>> wrote: >> >it's interesting, but i still think Christian Wiman is a bigger threat to >> poetry than poetry about theory. >> >> Why? >> I'm curious about your statement about Wiman here. Not because I'm a >> Wiman loyalist, but because it is a provocative thing to just throw out >> there. The underpinnings of it seem to imply everyone on this list has some >> sort of inside information on Wiman that would make this true. Which I >> personally don't. Even though I'm a UMASS MFA'r and work with Jim Tate and >> get to hang with the Cool Kids of PostModern Poetry. Yet, I still find >> opinions about everything poetry seem to change yearly within the halls of >> academia. >> >> However, from what I've seen of Wiman as of late, he's been trying to >> bring Poetry Magazine back from the brink of the tedious and dated Narrative >> Poems they cleaved to for so long. Granted, they still publish >> narratives...and hey, I stand guilty of still liking many narrative >> poems....perhaps, omg!, even writing a few myself. Though I find breaking >> free of the form liberating too. >> I guess what I am trying to say is I think they are reaching out more. I >> have enjoyed Atsuro Riley's work immensley, for instance. As well as Kay >> Ryan (and yes, I've seen your opinions of her voiced here...so my mention of >> her may not help at all). >> And though I'm on a grad student budget and can't afford the yearly >> subscriptions, I will say, I'll take Poetry over Octopus any day. Octopus >> leaves me feeling cold and disconnected on a regular basis. Although, they >> DO have really smart reviews. >> >> Still, I'm seeing an effort on Poetry's part to change it up. Yes, I >> know....albeit slowly but surely. I don't like all the poems in there. But >> what review does meet that high water mark anyway? None in recent history >> I can think of.... >> >> But hey, I probably don't really know what I'm talking about in the end. >> My ears just perked up on your blanket statement about Wiman...which I'm >> sure everyone on this list gets except for me. Or maybe not? >> >> Karen >> >> >> >> >> >> On Sep 19, 2008, at 4:00 PM, jforjames at aol.com >> wrote: >> >> >> http://www.brooklynrail.org/2008/09/books/raising-poetry >> >> NONFICTION: Raising Poetry >> by Sharon Mesmer >> >> Craig Dworkin, ed., The Consequence of Innovation: 21st >> Century Poetics (Roof Books, 2008) >> >> The problem with poetry these days isn't the literary >> magazines run by pharmaceutical industry businessmen, or the >> grants granted by pharmaceutical industry heiresses, or even >> the grant-granting bodies composed of >> pharmo-conservo-politicos (and heiresses). And it's not all >> the writing about writing, either, or even the writing about >> the writing about the writing (which, okay, can get annoying). >> It's the poetry about the writing about the writing about the >> writing. >> >> Poetry has become an overscheduled toddler run ragged by >> ambitious, bickering parents, its very existence a compromised >> simulacrum of their disharmonious projections and expectations >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> >> Jason Quackenbush >> jfq at myuw.net >> >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > > -- > Tad Richards > http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ > http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ > > The moral is this: in American verse, > The better you are, the pay is worse. > --Corey Ford > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning http://www.fieralingue.it/documenti/mr_bondo.pdf http://www.poetserv.org/jvc/home/index.html http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamescervantes/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini Sun Sep 21 12:40:56 2008 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2008 18:40:56 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: poetics is childish In-Reply-To: <602FEFDC-6BE1-43D0-AC27-7D452F6465BD@ripon.edu> References: <8CAE8C2B0724E27-1024-362E@WEBMAIL-DC16.sysops.aol.com> <07EA17DF-EBB6-4F74-B97B-3627B9CB0267@myuw.net> <602FEFDC-6BE1-43D0-AC27-7D452F6465BD@ripon.edu> Message-ID: <4b65c2d70809210940s8e62570g7613556d8485b65@mail.gmail.com> I think I am a full-fledged fogeyist because I agree completely with you. And besides that, after having read so much contemporary poetry especially in the last four five years, and while reading The Call of Stories by Robert Coles someone mentioned on this list (if I am not wrong), I am tempted to go back to Tolstoy. It seems to me that I need that human warmth. On Sun, Sep 21, 2008 at 5:48 PM, David Graham wrote: > Gary Snyder once remarked in an essay or interview that he wasn't terribly > interested in cultural developments after the Neolithic, a notion that still > makes me smile probably thirty years later. > Whenever I dip my toe into the poetic blogosphere I discover furious > debates about hot journals, current poets, editorial folly, po-biz politics, > and so forth. Even if I had the time to get fully engaged (as I did long > ago when I was in grad school and we had these debates over coffee and beer, > not our laptops)--I guess I'm rapidly evolving to the Snyder view. It just > doesn't matter to me who's in fashion. I know this is a sign of > full-fledged fogeyism, but there it is. And I note that, with many notable > and honorable exceptions, the bloggers often have very little to say about > poetry written more than five years ago. Sometimes it's five days ago. > Which among other things is a screaming limitation of this *kind* of > debate, in its usual forms. I'm not one to look down my nose at shop talk > and gossip, but let's not mistake it for something it's not. > > I don't see much reason to pay attention to the opinions of any critic who > doesn't demonstrate a long view of things. You don't have to go back to the > Neolithic, true, but it's nice when the arguments aren't mere unwitting > re-hashes of earlier debates. > > As for narrative itself being "dated," "outmoded" or whatever, I think that > very possibly a longer look at literary history might provide a quick cure > for such nonsense. > > > > ======================================== > David Graham > grahamd at ripon.edu > > Home Page: > http://web.mac.com/drjazz > > Poetry Library: > http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html > ========================================== > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini Sun Sep 21 12:52:34 2008 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2008 18:52:34 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: PBS poll on Palin In-Reply-To: <341134.10769.qm@web55606.mail.re4.yahoo.com> References: <341134.10769.qm@web55606.mail.re4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4b65c2d70809210952m1aa9d244t85b59d49d1be6189@mail.gmail.com> I already voted three times... :-( but nothing happens, always 46% PBS has a poll on their website asking if you think that Sarah Palin is qualified to be Vice President. Only 46% have said no, while 52% said yes and less than 1% were not sure. It would be more hopeful if we could turn this around! Please consider taking a minute to vote and forward this to others. It takes just seconds to vote and you don't have to give any personal information. The website is: http://www.pbs.org/now/polls/poll-435.html It's Sunday and the pulpits are busy with politics. I'm guessing there will be a swell of pro-Palin votes this afternoon and I'm hoping a counter-swell of no-Palin votes as well. Thanks, JC J. C. Todd "On this path no effort is wasted, no gain is ever reversed; even a little of this practice will shelter you from great sorrow." Bhagavad Gita -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From AlMaginnes Sun Sep 21 13:01:10 2008 From: AlMaginnes (AlMaginnes at aol.com) Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2008 13:01:10 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: poetics is childish Message-ID: I'm forever curious--how does one use language without being narrative? **************Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and calculators. (http://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd Sun Sep 21 13:07:00 2008 From: grahamd (David Graham) Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2008 12:07:00 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: poetics is childish In-Reply-To: <4b65c2d70809210940s8e62570g7613556d8485b65@mail.gmail.com> References: <8CAE8C2B0724E27-1024-362E@WEBMAIL-DC16.sysops.aol.com> <07EA17DF-EBB6-4F74-B97B-3627B9CB0267@myuw.net> <602FEFDC-6BE1-43D0-AC27-7D452F6465BD@ripon.edu> <4b65c2d70809210940s8e62570g7613556d8485b65@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <83CF9D6D-904F-4E50-B6C5-A0B6AD817894@ripon.edu> Might well have been me who mentioned Robert Coles's book *The Call of Stories*, one of my very favorites for a long time. Not only the title but the subtitle indicates its utter unfashionability: the subtitle is *Teaching and the Moral Imagination*. It's a hard book to describe accurately, since it ranges fairly widely, but the premise is simple. Coles ruminates on his experiences teaching great literature, especially in places where it is commonly not taught: medical and business schools, for example. And of course his larger aim is to meditate on why we are drawn, generation after generation, to works by Tolstoy, Shakespeare, George Eliot, Ralph Ellison, et al. Not much explicit attention to poetry in the book, but the chapter on William Carlos Williams is a little gem. Narrative poetry persists, I would suggest, because the call of stories is so deeply engrained in us. There's a long & glorious tradition of narrative poetry, and a persistent appeal: why on earth would a poet choose to turn one's back on that? ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.mac.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== On Sep 21, 2008, at 11:40 AM, Anny Ballardini wrote: > I think I am a full-fledged fogeyist because I agree completely > with you. And besides that, after having read so much contemporary > poetry especially in the last four five years, and while reading > The Call of Stories by Robert Coles someone mentioned on this list > (if I am not wrong), I am tempted to go back to Tolstoy. It seems > to me that I need that human warmth. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cstroffo Sun Sep 21 14:08:29 2008 From: cstroffo (Chris Stroffolino) Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2008 11:08:29 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] bg's contra-genteel.. In-Reply-To: <48D67FDF.3050006@nut-n-but.net> References: <8CAE8C2B0724E27-1024-362E@WEBMAIL-DC16.sysops.aol.com><07EA17DF-EBB6-4F74-B97B-3627B9CB0267@myuw.net> <48D67FDF.3050006@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: there goes bg again, acting like he's open to a wide range of poetry, but then I see your definition of contra-genteel is only of the "bukowski's followers" ilk.... it's okay to shock the bougie, i suppose, but the second it gets more political, a la ginsberg, then suddenly BG is at least as conservative and restrictive as wiman... ah, we love you, we really do (i enjoy being the teddy bear of the Truckee poetry scene... C On Sep 21, 2008, at 10:09 AM, Bob Grumman wrote: > >> >it's interesting, but i still think Christian Wiman is a bigger >> threat to poetry than poetry about theory. >> >> Why? > Jason gave his answer (from out of my "long shadow," which it was > nice of him to say). I pretty much agree with it, but wanted to > throw in a small answer of my own. It is simply that from what > Wiman has written about poetry (as I vaguely remember it), and what > he's mostly published in his magazine, my problem with him is that > he is committed too narrowly to poetry that would have been > considered conservative in 1950. As I keep having to say, I have > nothing much against such poetry, but feel that too little is being > done for my kind of poetry--basically visual, infra-verbal and > mathematical poetry--and other kinds of otherstream poetry I > frankly don't know too much about like cyber-poetry, sound poetry, > language poetry other than infra-verbal poetry (which I consider a > form of language poetry), and what I call contra-genteel poetry > (basically work by Bukowski's followers). Poetry magazine could do > a lot of good for such poetry by regularly printing it, and-- more > important--allowing people who know something about it to discuss > it critically on its pages. > > I happen to be all for the establishment's "appropriating" rebels, > so I approve of Poetry's accommodating language poetry of late, > even if not the best language poetry around, and (amazingly) visual > poetry, a selection of which will be in an upcoming issue (but none > by me). The question is whether Poetry is doing anything seriously > helpful to otherstream poetry, or just tokenisming a defense > against the charge of excessive narrowness. > > --Bob G. > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From oedipa Sun Sep 21 14:39:11 2008 From: oedipa (karen) Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2008 14:39:11 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: poetics is childish In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Oh I dunno....read octopus Magazine. They love poets who put this question into practice every issue. Ugh. http://www.octopusmagazine.com On Sun, Sep 21, 2008 at 1:01 PM, wrote: > I'm forever curious--how does one use language without being narrative? > > > > ------------------------------ > Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges? Check > out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and calculators > . > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From AlMaginnes Sun Sep 21 14:47:08 2008 From: AlMaginnes (AlMaginnes at aol.com) Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2008 14:47:08 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: poetics is childish Message-ID: I went, I read--I would argue that most of the poems I saw there have a narrative underpinning. They aren't outright narratives as we think of narrative, but the elements are there. Which was my original point. **************Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and calculators. (http://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cstroffo Sun Sep 21 14:55:03 2008 From: cstroffo (Chris Stroffolino) Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2008 11:55:03 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: poetics is childish In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3DF9E759-7D17-44E9-804E-9D2E211DFC29@earthlink.net> Well, narrative for so many is based on a short-story notion of narrative... That's way for me the narrative/non-narrative debate ignores a lot of poetry... the poets who are derided as "too narrative" by a lot of the language poets, but not short-story enough for the narrative spokespeople (these writers could be called narrative, but it's more a narrative of ideas and such...) C On Sep 21, 2008, at 11:39 AM, karen wrote: > Oh I dunno....read octopus Magazine. They love poets who put this > question into practice every issue. Ugh. > > http://www.octopusmagazine.com > > On Sun, Sep 21, 2008 at 1:01 PM, wrote: > I'm forever curious--how does one use language without being > narrative? > > > > Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial > challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and > information, tips and calculators. > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman Sun Sep 21 15:56:59 2008 From: bobgrumman (Bob Grumman) Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2008 14:56:59 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] bg's contra-genteel.. In-Reply-To: References: <8CAE8C2B0724E27-1024-362E@WEBMAIL-DC16.sysops.aol.com><07EA17DF-EBB6-4F74-B97B-3627B9CB0267@myuw.net><48D67FDF.3050006@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <48D6A70B.8000600@nut-n-but.net> Chris Stroffolino wrote: > > there goes bg again, acting like he's open to a wide range of poetry, > but then I see your definition of contra-genteel is only of the > "bukowski's followers" ilk.... "Bukowski's followers" is a brief description in a post to New-Poetry, not a definition, Chris. > it's okay to shock the bougie, i suppose, but the second it gets more > political, a la ginsberg, then suddenly BG is at least as conservative > and restrictive as wiman... > Note also, that I did not presume to name all the kinds of poetry I thought Wiman was ignoring. Also, I go by technique, not subject matter, so would call Ginsberg neo-Whitmanesque, basically, and not at all otherstream. He was also occasionally what I'd call contra-genteel (and a lot of contra-genteel poets are as self-rightously leftwing in their poetry as any politics-before-art advocate could want). Finally, how would I become more "restrictive" than Wiman by overlooking or even opposing political poetry--if there is such a thing? Wiman overlooks a lot more than one or two kinds of poetry. --Bob G. From bobgrumman Sun Sep 21 16:11:32 2008 From: bobgrumman (Bob Grumman) Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2008 15:11:32 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: poetics is childish In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <48D6AA74.9030307@nut-n-but.net> A description of a situation is not narrative although anyone can find narrative elements, or political elements, or Jesus in it or anything else, if he wants to ignore the fact that the purpose of a word like "narrative" or "politics" or "Jesus" is to separate some X from all that is not X. --Bob G. From Opus40-01 Sun Sep 21 15:12:59 2008 From: Opus40-01 (TheOldMole) Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2008 15:12:59 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: poetics is childish In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <48D69CBB.1070301@opus40.org> I agree with Al here. As soon as you put a verb into a collection of words, you've got a narrative. So what are we talking about? What is the kind of narrative that poets should eschew? At what point does narrative cross the line and become unpoetic? And I still have my other question on the table. How can you not be a part of any tradition? I don't write like Leadbelly -- I couldn't. But I still feel that excitement that struck me when I first felt what Leadbelly was doing with narrative. All these years later, that's still with me. Another poet who heard and was inspired by Leadbelly when he was 16 would take something else. Donald Justice and Donald Finkel are two of the great teachers of our time, but their voices as they echo in my head will be different from their voices as they echo in the heads of others, just as what I absorb from Williams or Whitman or Stevens will be different from what anyone else absorbs. Art comes from experience, and part of your experience is art. You can see it clearly when you look at the great innovators in jazz. Dizzy Gillespie tried to play like Roy Eldridge, but he couldn't. Exploring his own failures at imitation, and building on them as well as what Eldridge and Armstrong had done, he found his own great innovative style. Miles tried to play like Diz, and couldn't. AlMaginnes at aol.com wrote: > I went, I read--I would argue that most of the poems I saw there have > a narrative underpinning. They aren't outright narratives as we think > of narrative, but the elements are there. Which was my original point. > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges? > Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and > calculators > . > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ The moral is this: in American verse, The better you are, the pay is worse. --Corey Ford From bobgrumman Sun Sep 21 17:13:18 2008 From: bobgrumman (Bob Grumman) Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2008 16:13:18 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: poetics is childish In-Reply-To: <48D69CBB.1070301@opus40.org> References: <48D69CBB.1070301@opus40.org> Message-ID: <48D6B8EE.7010302@nut-n-but.net> It's not whether one is part of a tradition, Mole, but whether one is repeating what other poets in that tradition have done or taking a significant step out of it. --Bob G. From halvard Sun Sep 21 16:35:37 2008 From: halvard (Halvard Johnson) Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2008 15:35:37 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: poetics is childish In-Reply-To: <48D6B8EE.7010302@nut-n-but.net> References: <48D69CBB.1070301@opus40.org> <48D6B8EE.7010302@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <68758DEB-48A0-4DE8-B7D9-65E2C3EB64D3@earthlink.net> And when you step out of it be sure to wipe your feet. Hal McCain / Palin -- Just say thanks but no thanks. They're a bridge to nowhere. Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at earthlink.net halvard at gmail.com http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html On Sep 21, 2008, at 4:13 PM, Bob Grumman wrote: > It's not whether one is part of a tradition, Mole, but whether one > is repeating what other poets in that tradition have done or taking > a significant step out of it. > > --Bob G. > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From halvard Sun Sep 21 16:39:12 2008 From: halvard (Halvard Johnson) Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2008 15:39:12 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Correction du jour Message-ID: And what a relief this is-- ARTS Correction: The Poetry of Scissors and Glue (NYT) An article last Sunday about an exhibition of works by the poet and artist John Ashbery misstated the given name of a poet with whom Mr. Ashbery attended Harvard. He was Frank O?Hara, not John. Hal McCain / Palin -- Just say thanks but no thanks. They're a bridge to nowhere. Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at earthlink.net halvard at gmail.com http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Opus40-01 Sun Sep 21 16:49:36 2008 From: Opus40-01 (TheOldMole) Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2008 16:49:36 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: poetics is childish In-Reply-To: <48D6B8EE.7010302@nut-n-but.net> References: <48D69CBB.1070301@opus40.org> <48D6B8EE.7010302@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <48D6B360.6020408@opus40.org> Bob Grumman wrote: > It's not whether one is part of a tradition, Mole, but whether one is > repeating what other poets in that tradition have done or taking a > significant step out of it. > > --Bob G. > Was responding to Roger Day's "I missed the bit about Leadbelly - even so, why model yourself on a redundant manner?" which I took as assuming that anyone who drew inspiration from writers who had come before was guilty of redundancy. > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ The moral is this: in American verse, The better you are, the pay is worse. --Corey Ford From rog3r.day Sun Sep 21 17:15:31 2008 From: rog3r.day (Roger Day) Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2008 22:15:31 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: poetics is childish In-Reply-To: <48D6B360.6020408@opus40.org> References: <48D69CBB.1070301@opus40.org> <48D6B8EE.7010302@nut-n-but.net> <48D6B360.6020408@opus40.org> Message-ID: Sorry, that was not my intention: redundant manner as in a manner - narrative poetry - that has been made redundant by other genres of literature or art. I myself look to Apollinaire and Pound, so I, for one, would not throw bricks in glasshouses. Look to who you will. Roger On Sun, Sep 21, 2008 at 9:49 PM, TheOldMole wrote: > > > Bob Grumman wrote: >> >> It's not whether one is part of a tradition, Mole, but whether one is >> repeating what other poets in that tradition have done or taking a >> significant step out of it. >> >> --Bob G. >> > > Was responding to Roger Day's "I missed the bit about Leadbelly - even so, > why model yourself > > on a redundant manner?" which I took as assuming that anyone who drew > inspiration from writers who had come before was guilty of redundancy. > > > > > > > >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> > > -- > Tad Richards > http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ > http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ > > The moral is this: in American verse, > The better you are, the pay is worse. > --Corey Ford > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- My Stuff: http://www.badstep.net/ "I began to warm and chill to objects and their fields" Nick Cave & The Bad Seeds From Opus40-01 Sun Sep 21 17:51:00 2008 From: Opus40-01 (TheOldMole) Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2008 17:51:00 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: poetics is childish In-Reply-To: References: <48D69CBB.1070301@opus40.org> <48D6B8EE.7010302@nut-n-but.net> <48D6B360.6020408@opus40.org> Message-ID: <48D6C1C4.8040801@opus40.org> Gotcha. To me, though, we will never evolve past our need for narrative and our love for narrative. And yeah, we'll go on looking for narratives in poetic form, because it's one of the many neat forms for telling stories in. archy, The Highwayman, Dan McGrew, the River Merchant's Wife, the woman walking 30 miles en route to Bombay, the Jack of Hearts, the doctor going to the contagious diseases hospital -- they're all intimately bound up with narrative. As are The Major, Polly, Carlene, Steven Hawking, Bob and the Devil. Roger Day wrote: > Sorry, that was not my intention: redundant manner as in a manner - > narrative poetry - that has been made redundant by other genres of > literature or art. I myself look to Apollinaire and Pound, so I, for > one, would not throw bricks in glasshouses. Look to who you will. > > Roger > > On Sun, Sep 21, 2008 at 9:49 PM, TheOldMole wrote: > >> Bob Grumman wrote: >> >>> It's not whether one is part of a tradition, Mole, but whether one is >>> repeating what other poets in that tradition have done or taking a >>> significant step out of it. >>> >>> --Bob G. >>> >>> >> Was responding to Roger Day's "I missed the bit about Leadbelly - even so, >> why model yourself >> >> on a redundant manner?" which I took as assuming that anyone who drew >> inspiration from writers who had come before was guilty of redundancy. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> New-Poetry mailing list >>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>> >>> >> -- >> Tad Richards >> http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ >> http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ >> >> The moral is this: in American verse, >> The better you are, the pay is worse. >> --Corey Ford >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > > > > -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ The moral is this: in American verse, The better you are, the pay is worse. --Corey Ford From Opus40-01 Sun Sep 21 18:18:07 2008 From: Opus40-01 (TheOldMole) Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2008 18:18:07 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] An exact eye & a strong sense of when to stop Message-ID: <48D6C81F.40106@opus40.org> From Corey Ford's brilliant parody of Joseph Moncure March's /The Set-Up/. Since no one remembers March any more, and certainly no one remembers Corey Ford, I have exactly one friend I've been able to share this gem with. But I can share these few lines: Keen as a razor, Tough as a strop, He could write like a fool And he knew when to stop. -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ Don't forget to order your copy of FILM NOIR! http://stores.lulu.com/store.php?fAcctID=2712239 From jforjames Sun Sep 21 19:11:59 2008 From: jforjames (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2008 19:11:59 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] poetics is childish In-Reply-To: <48D661FE.4060301@opus40.org> References: <8CAE8C2B0724E27-1024-362E@WEBMAIL-DC16.sysops.aol.com> <07EA17DF-EBB6-4F74-B97B-3627B9CB0267@myuw.net> <48D661FE.4060301@opus40.org> Message-ID: <8CAEA5695B7872D-66C-2ACA@WEBMAIL-MA15.sysops.aol.com> *What Does Death Insure*? ? death insures? that one will never hear? again? the sound of a small plane? sketched out in the sand? of a windless summer afternoon? Going back to the Wederroth poem, I too like it. But it's really a 'haiku moment' kind of poem, and not much more. Of course in haiku, the season words?are important markers. So that would mean 'summer'?was essential. The word?'again' seems the unnecessary to me. For two reasons: (1) Without it, the?word 'again'?is implied. (2) But saying 'again', explicitedly, implies the speaker would want to repeat the experience. But can the magic of an ordinary experience be 'special'?when repeated. Finnegan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Opus40-01 Sun Sep 21 19:20:39 2008 From: Opus40-01 (TheOldMole) Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2008 19:20:39 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] poetics is childish In-Reply-To: <8CAEA5695B7872D-66C-2ACA@WEBMAIL-MA15.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CAE8C2B0724E27-1024-362E@WEBMAIL-DC16.sysops.aol.com> <07EA17DF-EBB6-4F74-B97B-3627B9CB0267@myuw.net> <48D661FE.4060301@opus40.org> <8CAEA5695B7872D-66C-2ACA@WEBMAIL-MA15.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <48D6D6C7.7060109@opus40.org> I sort of hate to endlessly pick apart a perfectly nice poem, but since Ron opened the door...what does one get from this poem that one could not get from the School of Quietude? jforjames at aol.com wrote: > > *What Does Death Insure* > > death insures > that one will never hear > again > the sound of a small plane > sketched out in the sand > of a windless summer afternoon > > > > Going back to the Wederroth poem, I too like it. But it's really a > 'haiku moment' kind of poem, and not much more. > Of course in haiku, the season words are important markers. So that > would mean 'summer' was essential. > The word 'again' seems the unnecessary to me. For two reasons: > (1) Without it, the word 'again' is implied. (2) But saying 'again', > explicitedly, implies the speaker would want to repeat > the experience. But can the magic of an ordinary experience be > 'special' when repeated. > Finnegan > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Find phone numbers fast with the New AOL Yellow Pages > ! > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ Don't forget to order your copy of FILM NOIR! http://stores.lulu.com/store.php?fAcctID=2712239 From cstroffo Sun Sep 21 19:23:32 2008 From: cstroffo (Chris Stroffolino) Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2008 16:23:32 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] poetics is childish In-Reply-To: <8CAEA5695B7872D-66C-2ACA@WEBMAIL-MA15.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CAE8C2B0724E27-1024-362E@WEBMAIL-DC16.sysops.aol.com> <07EA17DF-EBB6-4F74-B97B-3627B9CB0267@myuw.net> <48D661FE.4060301@opus40.org> <8CAEA5695B7872D-66C-2ACA@WEBMAIL-MA15.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <26B9D061-324C-45CD-968D-2F207E8727F9@earthlink.net> or a 'beside the white chickens' moment... death insures, though---poetry trying to compete with AIG, etc...! so much deadpans C On Sep 21, 2008, at 4:11 PM, jforjames at aol.com wrote: > > *What Does Death Insure* > > death insures > that one will never hear > again > the sound of a small plane > sketched out in the sand > of a windless summer afternoon > > > Going back to the Wederroth poem, I too like it. But it's really a > 'haiku moment' kind of poem, and not much more. > Of course in haiku, the season words are important markers. So that > would mean 'summer' was essential. > The word 'again' seems the unnecessary to me. For two reasons: > (1) Without it, the word 'again' is implied. (2) But saying > 'again', explicitedly, implies the speaker would want to repeat > the experience. But can the magic of an ordinary experience be > 'special' when repeated. > Finnegan > Find phone numbers fast with the New AOL Yellow Pages! > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames Sun Sep 21 20:30:37 2008 From: jforjames (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2008 20:30:37 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] poetics is childish In-Reply-To: <26B9D061-324C-45CD-968D-2F207E8727F9@earthlink.net> References: <8CAE8C2B0724E27-1024-362E@WEBMAIL-DC16.sysops.aol.com> <07EA17DF-EBB6-4F74-B97B-3627B9CB0267@myuw.net><48D661FE.4060301@opus40.org><8CAEA5695B7872D-66C-2ACA@WEBMAIL-MA15.sysops.aol.com> <26B9D061-324C-45CD-968D-2F207E8727F9@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <8CAEA6191618AAD-66C-2E7A@WEBMAIL-MA15.sysops.aol.com> If the poem becomes widely-anthologized, then?the poem's title?may have the trouble Marianne Moore had "What Are Years" sans the questionmark. Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: Chris Stroffolino Sent: Sun, 21 Sep 2008 7:23 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] poetics is childish or a 'beside the white chickens' moment... death insures, though---poetry trying to compete with AIG, etc...! so much deadpans C On Sep 21, 2008, at 4:11 PM, jforjames at aol.com wrote: *What Does Death Insure*? ? death insures? that one will never hear? again? the sound of a small plane? sketched out in the sand? of a windless summer afternoon? Going back to the Wederroth poem, I too like it. But it's really a 'haiku moment' kind of poem, and not much more. Of course in haiku, the season words?are important markers. So that would mean 'summer'?was essential. The word?'again' seems the unnecessary to me. For two reasons: (1) Without it, the?word 'again'?is implied. (2) But saying 'again', explicitedly, implies the speaker would want to repeat the experience. But can the magic of an ordinary experience be 'special'?when repeated. Finnegan Find phone numbers fast with the New AOL Yellow Pages! _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry = _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman Sun Sep 21 21:46:12 2008 From: bobgrumman (Bob Grumman) Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2008 20:46:12 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] poetics is childish In-Reply-To: <48D6D6C7.7060109@opus40.org> References: <8CAE8C2B0724E27-1024-362E@WEBMAIL-DC16.sysops.aol.com> <07EA17DF-EBB6-4F74-B97B-3627B9CB0267@myuw.net> <48D661FE.4060301@opus40.org><8CAEA5695B7872D-66C-2ACA@WEBMAIL-MA15.sysops.aol.com> <48D6D6C7.7060109@opus40.org> Message-ID: <48D6F8E4.9030302@nut-n-but.net> I have to admit that I don't understand this poem about what death insures (whose introduction to the thread I seem not to have received). I read it as saying that when one is dead, one won't hear the sound of a small plane again, so assume that sound is irritating. But how is the sound "sketched out in . . . sand?" --Bob G. From Opus40-01 Sun Sep 21 21:57:09 2008 From: Opus40-01 (TheOldMole) Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2008 21:57:09 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] poetics is childish In-Reply-To: <48D6F8E4.9030302@nut-n-but.net> References: <8CAE8C2B0724E27-1024-362E@WEBMAIL-DC16.sysops.aol.com> <07EA17DF-EBB6-4F74-B97B-3627B9CB0267@myuw.net> <48D661FE.4060301@opus40.org><8CAEA5695B7872D-66C-2ACA@WEBMAIL-MA15.sysops.aol.com> <48D6D6C7.7060109@opus40.org> <48D6F8E4.9030302@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <48D6FB75.8070100@opus40.org> You're a prisoner of the school of quietude. Bob Grumman wrote: > I have to admit that I don't understand this poem about what death > insures (whose introduction to the thread I seem not to have > received). I read it as saying that when one is dead, one won't hear > the sound of a small plane again, so assume that sound is irritating. > But how is the sound "sketched out in . . . sand?" > > --Bob G. > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ Don't forget to order your copy of FILM NOIR! http://stores.lulu.com/store.php?fAcctID=2712239 From rog3r.day Mon Sep 22 07:36:06 2008 From: rog3r.day (Roger Day) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 12:36:06 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: poetics is childish In-Reply-To: <48D6C1C4.8040801@opus40.org> References: <48D69CBB.1070301@opus40.org> <48D6B8EE.7010302@nut-n-but.net> <48D6B360.6020408@opus40.org> <48D6C1C4.8040801@opus40.org> Message-ID: I'm not contesting our need for narrative; I'm contesting the question as to what genre narrative is best suited to. Photography made quite a few modes of painting redundant. Indeed, Damien Hirst in praise of Gerhard Richter in the Guardian at the weekend, said that all that is left to painting is it's surface. And that's a lot of painting to fall by the wayside. To go on telling stories in poetry means something else once other similar modes in other genres are up for comparison. In other words, what is unique about poetry? To me, it's the use of parameters to pattern words across the page, most usefully done as a collage. You see, there are techniques other than narrative. Nick Laird was comparing poetry to television at the weekend - tv came off the worse - yet, in this country, TV is how I think the tribe tells it's stories to itself. I would contest the fact that in literature, the mere use of a verb implies a narrative. That's a meaningless definition. Narrative has to be more than this in literature. The what-you-leave-out technique applies to all genres of art, see most novels for example. Roger On 9/21/08, TheOldMole wrote: > Gotcha. To me, though, we will never evolve past our need for narrative and > our love for narrative. And yeah, we'll go on looking for narratives in > poetic form, because it's one of the many neat forms for telling stories in. > archy, The Highwayman, Dan McGrew, the River Merchant's Wife, the woman > walking 30 miles en route to Bombay, the Jack of Hearts, the doctor going to > the contagious diseases hospital -- they're all intimately bound up with > narrative. > > As are The Major, Polly, Carlene, Steven Hawking, Bob and the Devil. > > > Roger Day wrote: > > > Sorry, that was not my intention: redundant manner as in a manner - > > narrative poetry - that has been made redundant by other genres of > > literature or art. I myself look to Apollinaire and Pound, so I, for > > one, would not throw bricks in glasshouses. Look to who you will. > > > > Roger > > > > On Sun, Sep 21, 2008 at 9:49 PM, TheOldMole wrote: > > > > > > > Bob Grumman wrote: > > > > > > > > > > It's not whether one is part of a tradition, Mole, but whether one is > > > > repeating what other poets in that tradition have done or taking a > > > > significant step out of it. > > > > > > > > --Bob G. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Was responding to Roger Day's "I missed the bit about Leadbelly - even > so, > > > why model yourself > > > > > > on a redundant manner?" which I took as assuming that anyone who drew > > > inspiration from writers who had come before was guilty of redundancy. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > New-Poetry mailing list > > > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > Tad Richards > > > http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ > > > http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ > > > > > > The moral is this: in American verse, > > > The better you are, the pay is worse. > > > --Corey Ford > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > New-Poetry mailing list > > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > Tad Richards > http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ > http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ > > The moral is this: in American verse, > The better you are, the pay is worse. > --Corey Ford > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- My Stuff: http://www.badstep.net/ "I began to warm and chill to objects and their fields" Nick Cave & The Bad Seeds From jfq Mon Sep 22 07:42:21 2008 From: jfq (Jason Quackenbush) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 04:42:21 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: poetics is childish In-Reply-To: References: <48D69CBB.1070301@opus40.org> <48D6B8EE.7010302@nut-n-but.net> <48D6B360.6020408@opus40.org> <48D6C1C4.8040801@opus40.org> Message-ID: <1F4C881D-2087-4786-9737-82D29ABC7973@myuw.net> But does that mean television can't be poetry? I think there are moments when it is. The final episode of Twin Peaks, a certain dreamlike episode of Buffy the Vampire Slayer at the end of season four, occasional moments in Lost. There are times when television shows detach themselves from narrative and in those moments I think they are a kind of poetry. In that way I think maybe it shows there is a kind of narrative that is not suited to any other means but poetry. Certainly I'm not personally very interested in someone telling the sort of narrative I expect to see in a novel or a short story or a television show in a poem. But then I think it's also fairly clear that narrative is a very broad topic and that there are kinds of narrative that more prosaic genre's can't begin to approach. I hope that we never stop writing such poems. On Sep 22, 2008, at 4:36 AM, Roger Day wrote: > I'm not contesting our need for narrative; I'm contesting the question > as to what genre narrative is best suited to. > > Photography made quite a few modes of painting redundant. Indeed, > Damien Hirst in praise of Gerhard Richter in the Guardian at the > weekend, said that all that is left to painting is it's surface. And > that's a lot of painting to fall by the wayside. > > To go on telling stories in poetry means something else once other > similar modes in other genres are up for comparison. In other words, > what is unique about poetry? To me, it's the use of parameters to > pattern words across the page, most usefully done as a collage. You > see, there are techniques other than narrative. > > Nick Laird was comparing poetry to television at the weekend - tv came > off the worse - yet, in this country, TV is how I think the tribe > tells it's stories to itself. > > I would contest the fact that in literature, the mere use of a verb > implies a narrative. That's a meaningless definition. Narrative has to > be more than this in literature. > > The what-you-leave-out technique applies to all genres of art, see > most novels for example. > > Roger > > On 9/21/08, TheOldMole wrote: >> Gotcha. To me, though, we will never evolve past our need for >> narrative and >> our love for narrative. And yeah, we'll go on looking for >> narratives in >> poetic form, because it's one of the many neat forms for telling >> stories in. >> archy, The Highwayman, Dan McGrew, the River Merchant's Wife, the >> woman >> walking 30 miles en route to Bombay, the Jack of Hearts, the >> doctor going to >> the contagious diseases hospital -- they're all intimately bound >> up with >> narrative. >> >> As are The Major, Polly, Carlene, Steven Hawking, Bob and the Devil. >> >> >> Roger Day wrote: >> >>> Sorry, that was not my intention: redundant manner as in a manner - >>> narrative poetry - that has been made redundant by other genres of >>> literature or art. I myself look to Apollinaire and Pound, so I, for >>> one, would not throw bricks in glasshouses. Look to who you will. >>> >>> Roger >>> >>> On Sun, Sep 21, 2008 at 9:49 PM, TheOldMole >>> wrote: >>> >>> >>>> Bob Grumman wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>>> It's not whether one is part of a tradition, Mole, but whether >>>>> one is >>>>> repeating what other poets in that tradition have done or taking a >>>>> significant step out of it. >>>>> >>>>> --Bob G. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> Was responding to Roger Day's "I missed the bit about Leadbelly >>>> - even >> so, >>>> why model yourself >>>> >>>> on a redundant manner?" which I took as assuming that anyone who >>>> drew >>>> inspiration from writers who had come before was guilty of >>>> redundancy. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> New-Poetry mailing list >>>>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>>>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> -- >>>> Tad Richards >>>> http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ >>>> http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ >>>> >>>> The moral is this: in American verse, >>>> The better you are, the pay is worse. >>>> --Corey Ford >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> New-Poetry mailing list >>>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> -- >> Tad Richards >> http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ >> http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ >> >> The moral is this: in American verse, >> The better you are, the pay is worse. >> --Corey Ford >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> > > > -- > My Stuff: http://www.badstep.net/ > "I began to warm and chill > to objects and their fields" > Nick Cave & The Bad Seeds > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry Jason Quackenbush jfq at myuw.net From grahamd Mon Sep 22 10:04:51 2008 From: grahamd (David Graham) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 09:04:51 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Inspired by a bunny wabbit Message-ID: <2A38EE0F-25CB-4695-A671-E6BDE483E012@ripon.edu> A charming essay by Billy Collins on Looney Tunes cartoons. He includes the only excerpts I've ever seen of poetry from his first book, which has never been reprinted. "Another tendency that limits and skews the discussion is that writers almost invariably stay within their own genre when pressed to identify influential predecessors. Poets name poets. Novelists nod to other novelists. But the truth is that influence enters us from all sides. It is the chlorine in the flood of experience that spills continuously into the conscious mind. A short-story writer may have been influenced by 18th-century Dutch painting as much as anything else -- or by his mother's cooking. A painter may have been marked by her love of album covers or the childhood love of her cousin. And with that said, I am free to confess that my own poetry would have not developed in the direction it did, for better or worse, were it not for the spell that was cast over me as a boy by Warner Bros. cartoons. The very first time I heard the pulse-quickening blast of the zany theme music by Carl Stalling -- enough to bring any American boy to attention -- and saw the colorful bull's-eye emblazoned on the big screen, I was hooked." http://online.wsj.com/article/SB121460099221711769.html ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.mac.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Rsgwynn1 Mon Sep 22 10:18:57 2008 From: Rsgwynn1 (Rsgwynn1 at cs.com) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 10:18:57 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Inspired by a bunny wabbit Message-ID: In a message dated 9/22/2008 9:05:17 AM Central Daylight Time, grahamd at ripon.edu writes: > > A charming essay by Billy Collins on Looney Tunes cartoons. He includes the > only excerpts I've ever seen of poetry from his first book, which has never > been reprinted. Great stuff. I wish he'd mentioned "Dough for the Dodo," a Daliesque Porky Pig adventure. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chris.lott Mon Sep 22 11:43:07 2008 From: chris.lott (Chris Lott) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 07:43:07 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: poetics is childish In-Reply-To: References: <48D69CBB.1070301@opus40.org> <48D6B8EE.7010302@nut-n-but.net> <48D6B360.6020408@opus40.org> <48D6C1C4.8040801@opus40.org> Message-ID: <9b1b9dab0809220843k6e9b16ccs675e8614d65ad8a7@mail.gmail.com> On Mon, Sep 22, 2008 at 03:36, Roger Day wrote: > I'm not contesting our need for narrative; I'm contesting the question > as to what genre narrative is best suited to. Maybe narrative isn't "best" suited to any single genre. > Photography made quite a few modes of painting redundant. Indeed, > Damien Hirst in praise of Gerhard Richter in the Guardian at the > weekend, said that all that is left to painting is it's surface. And > that's a lot of painting to fall by the wayside. I can't think of many kinds of painting that photography made redundant. Expanding to drawing, maybe architectural illustration and some kinds of documentation. Presuming that it made most other modes irrelevant is to posit a mighty wide-- I'd say meaningless-- kind of equality of effect. > To go on telling stories in poetry means something else once other > similar modes in other genres are up for comparison. In other words, > what is unique about poetry? To me, it's the use of parameters to > pattern words across the page, most usefully done as a collage. You > see, there are techniques other than narrative. No doubt there are, but it seems a bit stifling to consider that there is just one way or one best way or one way that each type of writing should be limited to. No narrative in a particular poem sounds fine, but no narrative in poetry sounds as ridiculous to my ear as only narrative in fiction or no representation in painting. Do *you* write in collage sans narrative? I'm familiar with a small amount of visual poetry. I looked for yours online but found only poems here (http://www.badstep.net/text/poetry/index.html) that I'm not sure are yours. That's not an attack, even if the poems are yours, because I was curious in seeing precisely what you had in mind when you spoke of collage. The funny thing is I kind of agree that narrative is best suited for prose, at least when it comes to lengthy stories. There are very few long poems that work for me primarily because authors of such poems seem unable to sustain an interesting voice over long poems and I find myself regularly wondering why the piece isn't prose. But that's more about length than narrative, which the poems I like best tend to favor. And I would contend that poetry has other qualities that distinguish it from prose than alignment on the page and that each of those qualities is a tool by which narrative can usefully and "best" be implemented. Prose summaries of narrative poems (a whole lot of the poetry out there, right?) are never as good as the poems. I can buy an argument that a great prose writer might write something that is at the same level, but that the presence of narrative means good prose writers would/could continually best the poets? I don't think so... but isn't that what "narrative is best suited for prose" implies? c From grahamd Mon Sep 22 11:43:05 2008 From: grahamd (David Graham) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 10:43:05 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Tell me a story In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Fair enough. We may be at the point of agreeing to disagree on this one. I'm not contesting the fact that other genres deliver narrative well, or disputing the wonderful power of sitcoms, video games & Looney Tunes cartoons, for that matter. But I would suggest that the burden of proof remains not on fans of narrative poetry (which has been rolling happily along, lo these many centuries), but on those who wish to demonstrate its outmodedness. I suppose we likely differ on the effectiveness of all the narrative poetry that continues to be published, but there's no argument that it keeps being written at a great rate. To me that just might indicate not just an essential, cross-genre need, but also a general sense of its aptness and power within the realm of poetry. One of the sturdy tools in the toolbox. Sure, you can build a house without using nails or hammer, but why would you want to? I would also confess that I don't understand how to parse a phrase like "best suited" in this context. To me narrative is not an adornment or an aspect of style or fashion, but one of the essential tools. Seems to me that this line of argument is like confusing a given instrument (is the clarinet the "best" instrument to convey this melody?) with something more fundamental, like melody itself. On 9/22/08 6:36 AM, "Roger Day" wrote: > I'm not contesting our need for narrative; I'm contesting the question > as to what genre narrative is best suited to. > > Photography made quite a few modes of painting redundant. Indeed, > Damien Hirst in praise of Gerhard Richter in the Guardian at the > weekend, said that all that is left to painting is it's surface. And > that's a lot of painting to fall by the wayside. > > To go on telling stories in poetry means something else once other > similar modes in other genres are up for comparison. In other words, > what is unique about poetry? To me, it's the use of parameters to > pattern words across the page, most usefully done as a collage. You > see, there are techniques other than narrative. > > Nick Laird was comparing poetry to television at the weekend - tv came > off the worse - yet, in this country, TV is how I think the tribe > tells it's stories to itself. > > I would contest the fact that in literature, the mere use of a verb > implies a narrative. That's a meaningless definition. Narrative has to > be more than this in literature. > > The what-you-leave-out technique applies to all genres of art, see > most novels for example. > > Roger > ==================================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/About%20Me.html Poetry Library: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ==================================================== From rog3r.day Mon Sep 22 13:21:19 2008 From: rog3r.day (Roger Day) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 18:21:19 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: poetics is childish In-Reply-To: <9b1b9dab0809220843k6e9b16ccs675e8614d65ad8a7@mail.gmail.com> References: <48D69CBB.1070301@opus40.org> <48D6B8EE.7010302@nut-n-but.net> <48D6B360.6020408@opus40.org> <48D6C1C4.8040801@opus40.org> <9b1b9dab0809220843k6e9b16ccs675e8614d65ad8a7@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: No, collage for me doesn't equal concrete - it's the accretion of lines, disjoint in their effect. It's probably true that I've written some "narrative" poems in the past; I try to stick with the accretion of lines, of images. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't; sometimes the crutch of narrative comes limping into view. I didn't say I was any good at this game. I'm just an inquiring reader. The painting or photography question is always present: if I do it in this medium, what I am saying or adding to the final artifact? Photo-realist paintings impart a "realism" which is more than real, rivals the camera. How far you can push this genre in competition with digital photography is a moot point. For me it's not a competition between prose-writers and poets; for me, it's a question of how should I write this piece, given that I have the choice of poetry or prose. Damien Hirst's questions come at the thrusting point of roughly 150 years of thought, from the beginning of photography. I wonder if prose poetry is where one doesn't allow oneself the luxury of narrative? Still, you don't answer my question: what does poetry do that other genres don't? It's not narrative, that's for sure. Roger On Mon, Sep 22, 2008 at 4:43 PM, Chris Lott wrote: > On Mon, Sep 22, 2008 at 03:36, Roger Day wrote: >> I'm not contesting our need for narrative; I'm contesting the question >> as to what genre narrative is best suited to. > > Maybe narrative isn't "best" suited to any single genre. > >> Photography made quite a few modes of painting redundant. Indeed, >> Damien Hirst in praise of Gerhard Richter in the Guardian at the >> weekend, said that all that is left to painting is it's surface. And >> that's a lot of painting to fall by the wayside. > > I can't think of many kinds of painting that photography made > redundant. Expanding to drawing, maybe architectural illustration and > some kinds of documentation. Presuming that it made most other modes > irrelevant is to posit a mighty wide-- I'd say meaningless-- kind of > equality of effect. > >> To go on telling stories in poetry means something else once other >> similar modes in other genres are up for comparison. In other words, >> what is unique about poetry? To me, it's the use of parameters to >> pattern words across the page, most usefully done as a collage. You >> see, there are techniques other than narrative. > > No doubt there are, but it seems a bit stifling to consider that there > is just one way or one best way or one way that each type of writing > should be limited to. No narrative in a particular poem sounds fine, > but no narrative in poetry sounds as ridiculous to my ear as only > narrative in fiction or no representation in painting. > > Do *you* write in collage sans narrative? I'm familiar with a small > amount of visual poetry. I looked for yours online but found only > poems here (http://www.badstep.net/text/poetry/index.html) that I'm > not sure are yours. That's not an attack, even if the poems are yours, > because I was curious in seeing precisely what you had in mind when > you spoke of collage. > > The funny thing is I kind of agree that narrative is best suited for > prose, at least when it comes to lengthy stories. There are very few > long poems that work for me primarily because authors of such poems > seem unable to sustain an interesting voice over long poems and I find > myself regularly wondering why the piece isn't prose. > > But that's more about length than narrative, which the poems I like > best tend to favor. And I would contend that poetry has other > qualities that distinguish it from prose than alignment on the page > and that each of those qualities is a tool by which narrative can > usefully and "best" be implemented. Prose summaries of narrative poems > (a whole lot of the poetry out there, right?) are never as good as the > poems. I can buy an argument that a great prose writer might write > something that is at the same level, but that the presence of > narrative means good prose writers would/could continually best the > poets? I don't think so... but isn't that what "narrative is best > suited for prose" implies? > > c > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- My Stuff: http://www.badstep.net/ "I began to warm and chill to objects and their fields" Nick Cave & The Bad Seeds From JforJames Mon Sep 22 13:50:21 2008 From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 13:50:21 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: poetics is childish Message-ID: In a message dated 9/22/2008 7:36:30 AM Eastern Daylight Time, rog3r.day at gmail.com writes: I'm contesting the question as to what genre narrative is best suited to. Photography made quite a few modes of painting redundant. Indeed, Damien Hirst in praise of Gerhard Richter in the Guardian at the weekend, said that all that is left to painting is it's surface. And that's a lot of painting to fall by the wayside. To go on telling stories in poetry means something else once other similar modes in other genres are up for comparison. In other words, what is unique about poetry? To me, it's the use of parameters to pattern words across the page, most usefully done as a collage. You see, there are techniques other than narrative. Roger, I don't know think I'll take my notions of art criticism from Damien Hirst. He certainly couldn't tell Richter anything about painting...surface, texture, content, concept, or otherwise. Saying that all that is left painting is surface, is as much saying that the window to the universe is still there, waiting, open, blank, a plane in space ready for anything. There is a whole generation of photo-realists doing quite well in art world, 100+ years after the advent of photography. And, of course, lot of photography is completely abstract, so the a mechanical means of image capture has become just another medium. I don't think poetry is necessarily the best genre for narrative. It's still a very good means for the 'telling scene', a view into or way of imaginatively unfolding a larger, untold story. Finnegan **************Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and calculators. (http://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini Mon Sep 22 14:25:29 2008 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 20:25:29 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Inspired by a bunny wabbit In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4b65c2d70809221125v18c5c461w35539611896623a9@mail.gmail.com> Yeap, the same over here. Hooked is the right term. And I also liked Caspar the Ghost and Batman. On Mon, Sep 22, 2008 at 4:18 PM, wrote: > In a message dated 9/22/2008 9:05:17 AM Central Daylight Time, > grahamd at ripon.edu writes: > > > A charming essay by Billy Collins on Looney Tunes cartoons. He includes > the only excerpts I've ever seen of poetry from his first book, which has > never been reprinted. > > > > Great stuff. I wish he'd mentioned "Dough for the Dodo," a Daliesque Porky > Pig adventure. > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini Mon Sep 22 14:30:18 2008 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 20:30:18 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Italy Message-ID: <4b65c2d70809221130o12e53258y3c2ab902f3f609ec@mail.gmail.com> It wasn't really just my father's opinion when he always stated that Italy was dirty: http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/22/world/europe/22marsh.html?_r=1&hp&oref=slogin -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jjeffreymail Mon Sep 22 15:00:50 2008 From: jjeffreymail (John Jeffrey) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 12:00:50 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: poetics is childish Message-ID: <411852.51875.qm@web54102.mail.re2.yahoo.com> I've got to say, the phrase, "the crutch of narrative comes limping into view" made me laugh out loud. What's next? The the crutch of color to a painter? The crutch of tone to a musician? And as to "What genre narrative is best suited to," that seems a backward question. Poets write poetry. They don't have an idea and then decide whether it should be a poem or novel, painting or photo, opera or blues, tap dance or lap dance. They write a poem. That's how they express their ideas, images, and (dear gawd) feelings. So if they think & create in a narrative fashion, it's only sensible that their poetry would be narrative. I doubt Coleridge thought, "Crap, I've got this great story about a mariner... and me, only a poet." John Jeffrey ----- Original Message ---- From: Roger Day To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &, Views" Sent: Monday, September 22, 2008 1:21:19 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Re: poetics is childish No, collage for me doesn't equal concrete - it's the accretion of lines, disjoint in their effect. It's probably true that I've written some "narrative" poems in the past; I try to stick with the accretion of lines, of images. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't; sometimes the crutch of narrative comes limping into view. I didn't say I was any good at this game. I'm just an inquiring reader. The painting or photography question is always present: if I do it in this medium, what I am saying or adding to the final artifact? Photo-realist paintings impart a "realism" which is more than real, rivals the camera. How far you can push this genre in competition with digital photography is a moot point. For me it's not a competition between prose-writers and poets; for me, it's a question of how should I write this piece, given that I have the choice of poetry or prose. Damien Hirst's questions come at the thrusting point of roughly 150 years of thought, from the beginning of photography. I wonder if prose poetry is where one doesn't allow oneself the luxury of narrative? Still, you don't answer my question: what does poetry do that other genres don't? It's not narrative, that's for sure. Roger On Mon, Sep 22, 2008 at 4:43 PM, Chris Lott wrote: > On Mon, Sep 22, 2008 at 03:36, Roger Day wrote: >> I'm not contesting our need for narrative; I'm contesting the question >> as to what genre narrative is best suited to. > > Maybe narrative isn't "best" suited to any single genre. > >> Photography made quite a few modes of painting redundant. Indeed, >> Damien Hirst in praise of Gerhard Richter in the Guardian at the >> weekend, said that all that is left to painting is it's surface. And >> that's a lot of painting to fall by the wayside. > > I can't think of many kinds of painting that photography made > redundant. Expanding to drawing, maybe architectural illustration and > some kinds of documentation. Presuming that it made most other modes > irrelevant is to posit a mighty wide-- I'd say meaningless-- kind of > equality of effect. > >> To go on telling stories in poetry means something else once other >> similar modes in other genres are up for comparison. In other words, >> what is unique about poetry? To me, it's the use of parameters to >> pattern words across the page, most usefully done as a collage. You >> see, there are techniques other than narrative. > > No doubt there are, but it seems a bit stifling to consider that there > is just one way or one best way or one way that each type of writing > should be limited to. No narrative in a particular poem sounds fine, > but no narrative in poetry sounds as ridiculous to my ear as only > narrative in fiction or no representation in painting. > > Do *you* write in collage sans narrative? I'm familiar with a small > amount of visual poetry. I looked for yours online but found only > poems here (http://www.badstep.net/text/poetry/index.html) that I'm > not sure are yours. That's not an attack, even if the poems are yours, > because I was curious in seeing precisely what you had in mind when > you spoke of collage. > > The funny thing is I kind of agree that narrative is best suited for > prose, at least when it comes to lengthy stories. There are very few > long poems that work for me primarily because authors of such poems > seem unable to sustain an interesting voice over long poems and I find > myself regularly wondering why the piece isn't prose. > > But that's more about length than narrative, which the poems I like > best tend to favor. And I would contend that poetry has other > qualities that distinguish it from prose than alignment on the page > and that each of those qualities is a tool by which narrative can > usefully and "best" be implemented. Prose summaries of narrative poems > (a whole lot of the poetry out there, right?) are never as good as the > poems. I can buy an argument that a great prose writer might write > something that is at the same level, but that the presence of > narrative means good prose writers would/could continually best the > poets? I don't think so... but isn't that what "narrative is best > suited for prose" implies? > > c > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- My Stuff: http://www.badstep.net/ "I began to warm and chill to objects and their fields" Nick Cave & The Bad Seeds _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From AlMaginnes Mon Sep 22 15:02:48 2008 From: AlMaginnes (AlMaginnes at aol.com) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 15:02:48 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: poetics is childish Message-ID: I had a great idea for a lap dance last night. But I'm only a poet. **************Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and calculators. (http://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jfq Mon Sep 22 15:10:39 2008 From: jfq (jfq at myuw.net) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 12:10:39 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: poetics is childish In-Reply-To: <411852.51875.qm@web54102.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: i don't know, if i have an idea for a story generally speaking poetry isn't the first genre i turn to. but I write a lot more poetry than prose because my ideas seem to fit that particular genre more often. for me in poetry, the narrative often comes after a series of poems is written and i start to see how they might fit together in a narrative arc. but since when is being a poet a reason one can't work in other genres? I'm a poet but I've also written essays, short stories and even made a few runs at novels. to a large extent what i'm trying to do in each case is largely determined by the initial idea, so I think asking why choose to make it a poem when one is trying to tell a story is a perfectly legitimate one. it doesn't mean choosing to make it a poem is incorrect, but as a choice it warrants examinations as to why taht particular choice was made. On Mon, 22 Sep 2008, John Jeffrey wrote: > I've got to say, the phrase, "the crutch of narrative comes limping into view" made me laugh out loud. What's next? The the crutch of color to a painter? The crutch of tone to a musician? > > And as to "What genre narrative is best suited to," that seems a backward question. Poets write poetry. They don't have an idea and then decide whether it should be a poem or novel, painting or photo, opera or blues, tap dance or lap dance. They write a poem. That's how they express their ideas, images, and (dear gawd) feelings. So if they think & create in a narrative fashion, it's only sensible that their poetry would be narrative. > > I doubt Coleridge thought, "Crap, I've got this great story about a mariner... and me, only a poet." > > John Jeffrey > > > > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: Roger Day > To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &, Views" > Sent: Monday, September 22, 2008 1:21:19 PM > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Re: poetics is childish > > No, collage for me doesn't equal concrete - it's the accretion of > lines, disjoint in their effect. It's probably true that I've written > some "narrative" poems in the past; I try to stick with the accretion > of lines, of images. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't; > sometimes the crutch of narrative comes limping into view. I didn't > say I was any good at this game. I'm just an inquiring reader. > > The painting or photography question is always present: if I do it in > this medium, what I am saying or adding to the final artifact? > Photo-realist paintings impart a "realism" which is more than real, > rivals the camera. How far you can push this genre in competition with > digital photography is a moot point. For me it's not a competition > between prose-writers and poets; for me, it's a question of how should > I write this piece, given that I have the choice of poetry or prose. > Damien Hirst's questions come at the thrusting point of roughly 150 > years of thought, from the beginning of photography. > > I wonder if prose poetry is where one doesn't allow oneself the luxury > of narrative? > > Still, you don't answer my question: what does poetry do that other > genres don't? It's not narrative, that's for sure. > > Roger > > On Mon, Sep 22, 2008 at 4:43 PM, Chris Lott wrote: >> On Mon, Sep 22, 2008 at 03:36, Roger Day wrote: >>> I'm not contesting our need for narrative; I'm contesting the question >>> as to what genre narrative is best suited to. >> >> Maybe narrative isn't "best" suited to any single genre. >> >>> Photography made quite a few modes of painting redundant. Indeed, >>> Damien Hirst in praise of Gerhard Richter in the Guardian at the >>> weekend, said that all that is left to painting is it's surface. And >>> that's a lot of painting to fall by the wayside. >> >> I can't think of many kinds of painting that photography made >> redundant. Expanding to drawing, maybe architectural illustration and >> some kinds of documentation. Presuming that it made most other modes >> irrelevant is to posit a mighty wide-- I'd say meaningless-- kind of >> equality of effect. >> >>> To go on telling stories in poetry means something else once other >>> similar modes in other genres are up for comparison. In other words, >>> what is unique about poetry? To me, it's the use of parameters to >>> pattern words across the page, most usefully done as a collage. You >>> see, there are techniques other than narrative. >> >> No doubt there are, but it seems a bit stifling to consider that there >> is just one way or one best way or one way that each type of writing >> should be limited to. No narrative in a particular poem sounds fine, >> but no narrative in poetry sounds as ridiculous to my ear as only >> narrative in fiction or no representation in painting. >> >> Do *you* write in collage sans narrative? I'm familiar with a small >> amount of visual poetry. I looked for yours online but found only >> poems here (http://www.badstep.net/text/poetry/index.html) that I'm >> not sure are yours. That's not an attack, even if the poems are yours, >> because I was curious in seeing precisely what you had in mind when >> you spoke of collage. >> >> The funny thing is I kind of agree that narrative is best suited for >> prose, at least when it comes to lengthy stories. There are very few >> long poems that work for me primarily because authors of such poems >> seem unable to sustain an interesting voice over long poems and I find >> myself regularly wondering why the piece isn't prose. >> >> But that's more about length than narrative, which the poems I like >> best tend to favor. And I would contend that poetry has other >> qualities that distinguish it from prose than alignment on the page >> and that each of those qualities is a tool by which narrative can >> usefully and "best" be implemented. Prose summaries of narrative poems >> (a whole lot of the poetry out there, right?) are never as good as the >> poems. I can buy an argument that a great prose writer might write >> something that is at the same level, but that the presence of >> narrative means good prose writers would/could continually best the >> poets? I don't think so... but isn't that what "narrative is best >> suited for prose" implies? >> >> c >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> > > > > -- > My Stuff: http://www.badstep.net/ > "I began to warm and chill > to objects and their fields" > Nick Cave & The Bad Seeds > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > From jforjames Mon Sep 22 15:12:08 2008 From: jforjames (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 15:12:08 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Levis Prize Message-ID: <8CAEAFE3E1065C4-11DC-118B@webmail-dd07.sysops.aol.com> http://media.www.commonwealthtimes.com/media/storage/paper634/news/2008/09/22/Spectrum/Late-Poet.Lives.On.Through.Annual.Levis.Reading.Prize-3444468.shtml Late poet lives on through annual Levis Reading Prize Executive Editor Issue date: 9/22/08 Section: Spectrum PrintEmail Article Tools Page 1 of 1 Media Credit: Stephanie Power Poet Matthew Donovan, recipient of the 2008 Levis Reading Prize, read some of his poetry Thursday night. ? ? Matthew Donovan recalls the time a graduate school friend recommended he check out some of Larry Levis' writings. He walked into the bookstore and cracked it open and remembers "feeling as if Levis was directly whispering in my ear." He immediately felt a sense of affinity and engagement with Levis' writing. From then on, Levis' work would have an influence on Donovan's life and style. Donovan, an assistant professor of creative writing at the College of Sante Fe, is the recipient of the 2008 Levis Reading Prize-a prize awarded in memory of the late Larry Levis for the best first or second book of poetry published in the previous year. In addition to a $1,000 honorarium, Donovan was provided with an all-expenses paid trip to read his poetry at VCU. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rog3r.day Mon Sep 22 16:37:35 2008 From: rog3r.day (Roger Day) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 21:37:35 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: poetics is childish In-Reply-To: References: <411852.51875.qm@web54102.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: What next? Answering my question might be in order, but I see none of you are actually up to it. Maybe you should throw your crutch away? Ach, you'd only fall over and make a fool of yourself. When Coleridge was writing, the novel - as we know it - was only just hoving into view. ah well. Roger On Mon, Sep 22, 2008 at 8:10 PM, wrote: > > i don't know, if i have an idea for a story generally speaking poetry isn't > the first genre i turn to. but I write a lot more poetry than prose because > my ideas seem to fit that particular genre more often. for me in poetry, the > narrative often comes after a series of poems is written and i start to see > how they might fit together in a narrative arc, > but since when is being a poet a reason one can't work in other genres? I'm > a poet but I've also written essays, short stories and even made a few runs > at novels. to a large extent what i'm trying to do in each case is largely > determined by the initial idea, so I think asking why choose to make it a > poem when one is trying to tell a story is a perfectly legitimate one. it > doesn't mean choosing to make it a poem is incorrect, but as a choice it > warrants examinations as to why taht particular choice was made. > > On Mon, 22 Sep 2008, John Jeffrey wrote: > >> I've got to say, the phrase, "the crutch of narrative comes limping into >> view" made me laugh out loud. What's next? The the crutch of color to a >> painter? The crutch of tone to a musician? >> >> And as to "What genre narrative is best suited to," that seems a backward >> question. Poets write poetry. They don't have an idea and then decide >> whether it should be a poem or novel, painting or photo, opera or blues, tap >> dance or lap dance. They write a poem. That's how they express their >> ideas, images, and (dear gawd) feelings. So if they think & create in a >> narrative fashion, it's only sensible that their poetry would be narrative. >> >> I doubt Coleridge thought, "Crap, I've got this great story about a >> mariner... and me, only a poet." >> >> John Jeffrey >> >> >> >> >> ----- Original Message ---- >> From: Roger Day >> To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &, Views" >> >> Sent: Monday, September 22, 2008 1:21:19 PM >> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Re: poetics is childish >> >> No, collage for me doesn't equal concrete - it's the accretion of >> lines, disjoint in their effect. It's probably true that I've written >> some "narrative" poems in the past; I try to stick with the accretion >> of lines, of images. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't; >> sometimes the crutch of narrative comes limping into view. I didn't >> say I was any good at this game. I'm just an inquiring reader. >> >> The painting or photography question is always present: if I do it in >> this medium, what I am saying or adding to the final artifact? >> Photo-realist paintings impart a "realism" which is more than real, >> rivals the camera. How far you can push this genre in competition with >> digital photography is a moot point. For me it's not a competition >> between prose-writers and poets; for me, it's a question of how should >> I write this piece, given that I have the choice of poetry or prose. >> Damien Hirst's questions come at the thrusting point of roughly 150 >> years of thought, from the beginning of photography. >> >> I wonder if prose poetry is where one doesn't allow oneself the luxury >> of narrative? >> >> Still, you don't answer my question: what does poetry do that other >> genres don't? It's not narrative, that's for sure. >> >> Roger >> >> On Mon, Sep 22, 2008 at 4:43 PM, Chris Lott wrote: >>> >>> On Mon, Sep 22, 2008 at 03:36, Roger Day wrote: >>>> >>>> I'm not contesting our need for narrative; I'm contesting the question >>>> as to what genre narrative is best suited to. >>> >>> Maybe narrative isn't "best" suited to any single genre. >>> >>>> Photography made quite a few modes of painting redundant. Indeed, >>>> Damien Hirst in praise of Gerhard Richter in the Guardian at the >>>> weekend, said that all that is left to painting is it's surface. And >>>> that's a lot of painting to fall by the wayside. >>> >>> I can't think of many kinds of painting that photography made >>> redundant. Expanding to drawing, maybe architectural illustration and >>> some kinds of documentation. Presuming that it made most other modes >>> irrelevant is to posit a mighty wide-- I'd say meaningless-- kind of >>> equality of effect. >>> >>>> To go on telling stories in poetry means something else once other >>>> similar modes in other genres are up for comparison. In other words, >>>> what is unique about poetry? To me, it's the use of parameters to >>>> pattern words across the page, most usefully done as a collage. You >>>> see, there are techniques other than narrative. >>> >>> No doubt there are, but it seems a bit stifling to consider that there >>> is just one way or one best way or one way that each type of writing >>> should be limited to. No narrative in a particular poem sounds fine, >>> but no narrative in poetry sounds as ridiculous to my ear as only >>> narrative in fiction or no representation in painting. >>> >>> Do *you* write in collage sans narrative? I'm familiar with a small >>> amount of visual poetry. I looked for yours online but found only >>> poems here (http://www.badstep.net/text/poetry/index.html) that I'm >>> not sure are yours. That's not an attack, even if the poems are yours, >>> because I was curious in seeing precisely what you had in mind when >>> you spoke of collage. >>> >>> The funny thing is I kind of agree that narrative is best suited for >>> prose, at least when it comes to lengthy stories. There are very few >>> long poems that work for me primarily because authors of such poems >>> seem unable to sustain an interesting voice over long poems and I find >>> myself regularly wondering why the piece isn't prose. >>> >>> But that's more about length than narrative, which the poems I like >>> best tend to favor. And I would contend that poetry has other >>> qualities that distinguish it from prose than alignment on the page >>> and that each of those qualities is a tool by which narrative can >>> usefully and "best" be implemented. Prose summaries of narrative poems >>> (a whole lot of the poetry out there, right?) are never as good as the >>> poems. I can buy an argument that a great prose writer might write >>> something that is at the same level, but that the presence of >>> narrative means good prose writers would/could continually best the >>> poets? I don't think so... but isn't that what "narrative is best >>> suited for prose" implies? >>> >>> c >>> _______________________________________________ >>> New-Poetry mailing list >>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> My Stuff: http://www.badstep.net/ >> "I began to warm and chill >> to objects and their fields" >> Nick Cave & The Bad Seeds >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> >> >> > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- My Stuff: http://www.badstep.net/ "I began to warm and chill to objects and their fields" Nick Cave & The Bad Seeds From rog3r.day Mon Sep 22 16:37:56 2008 From: rog3r.day (Roger Day) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 21:37:56 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: poetics is childish In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: you'd get paid more ... well, only probably. On Mon, Sep 22, 2008 at 8:02 PM, wrote: > I had a great idea for a lap dance last night. But I'm only a poet. > > > ________________________________ > Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges? Check > out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and calculators. > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- My Stuff: http://www.badstep.net/ "I began to warm and chill to objects and their fields" Nick Cave & The Bad Seeds From rog3r.day Mon Sep 22 16:43:17 2008 From: rog3r.day (Roger Day) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 21:43:17 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: poetics is childish In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I agree with you. But I was also wondering what you might describe as poetry's unique point compared with other genres? Seeing as most of you are content to take pot-shots, rather than answer that question, here's Nick Laird's attempt at an answer: http://www.guardian.co.uk/culture/2008/sep/20/poetry Roger On Mon, Sep 22, 2008 at 6:50 PM, wrote: > In a message dated 9/22/2008 7:36:30 AM Eastern Daylight Time, > rog3r.day at gmail.com writes: > > I'm contesting the question > as to what genre narrative is best suited to. > > Photography made quite a few modes of painting redundant. Indeed, > Damien Hirst in praise of Gerhard Richter in the Guardian at the > weekend, said that all that is left to painting is it's surface. And > that's a lot of painting to fall by the wayside. > > To go on telling stories in poetry means something else once other > similar modes in other genres are up for comparison. In other words, > what is unique about poetry? To me, it's the use of parameters to > pattern words across the page, most usefully done as a collage. You > see, there are techniques other than narrative. > > Roger, I don't know think I'll take my notions of art criticism from Damien > Hirst. > He certainly couldn't tell Richter anything about painting...surface, > texture, content, > concept, or otherwise. Saying that all that is left painting is surface, is > as much saying > that the window to the universe is still there, waiting, open, blank, a > plane in space ready for > anything. > > There is a whole generation of photo-realists doing quite well in art world, > 100+ years > after the advent of photography. And, of course, lot of photography is > completely abstract, > so the a mechanical means of image capture has become just another medium. > > I don't think poetry is necessarily the best genre for narrative. It's still > a very good > means for the 'telling scene', a view into or way of imaginatively unfolding > a larger, > untold story. > Finnegan > > > > ________________________________ > Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges? Check > out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and calculators. > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- My Stuff: http://www.badstep.net/ "I began to warm and chill to objects and their fields" Nick Cave & The Bad Seeds From jfq Mon Sep 22 16:46:48 2008 From: jfq (jfq at myuw.net) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 13:46:48 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: poetics is childish In-Reply-To: Message-ID: um, i was agreeing with you about the question being valid. no need to be huffy and act like a jerk. On Mon, 22 Sep 2008, Roger Day wrote: > What next? Answering my question might be in order, but I see none of > you are actually up to it. > > Maybe you should throw your crutch away? Ach, you'd only fall over and > make a fool of yourself. > > When Coleridge was writing, the novel - as we know it - was only just > hoving into view. > > ah well. > > Roger > > On Mon, Sep 22, 2008 at 8:10 PM, wrote: >> >> i don't know, if i have an idea for a story generally speaking poetry isn't >> the first genre i turn to. but I write a lot more poetry than prose because >> my ideas seem to fit that particular genre more often. for me in poetry, the >> narrative often comes after a series of poems is written and i start to see >> how they might fit together in a narrative arc, > >> but since when is being a poet a reason one can't work in other genres? I'm >> a poet but I've also written essays, short stories and even made a few runs >> at novels. to a large extent what i'm trying to do in each case is largely >> determined by the initial idea, so I think asking why choose to make it a >> poem when one is trying to tell a story is a perfectly legitimate one. it >> doesn't mean choosing to make it a poem is incorrect, but as a choice it >> warrants examinations as to why taht particular choice was made. >> >> On Mon, 22 Sep 2008, John Jeffrey wrote: >> >>> I've got to say, the phrase, "the crutch of narrative comes limping into >>> view" made me laugh out loud. What's next? The the crutch of color to a >>> painter? The crutch of tone to a musician? >>> >>> And as to "What genre narrative is best suited to," that seems a backward >>> question. Poets write poetry. They don't have an idea and then decide >>> whether it should be a poem or novel, painting or photo, opera or blues, tap >>> dance or lap dance. They write a poem. That's how they express their >>> ideas, images, and (dear gawd) feelings. So if they think & create in a >>> narrative fashion, it's only sensible that their poetry would be narrative. >>> >>> I doubt Coleridge thought, "Crap, I've got this great story about a >>> mariner... and me, only a poet." >>> >>> John Jeffrey >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> ----- Original Message ---- >>> From: Roger Day >>> To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &, Views" >>> >>> Sent: Monday, September 22, 2008 1:21:19 PM >>> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Re: poetics is childish >>> >>> No, collage for me doesn't equal concrete - it's the accretion of >>> lines, disjoint in their effect. It's probably true that I've written >>> some "narrative" poems in the past; I try to stick with the accretion >>> of lines, of images. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't; >>> sometimes the crutch of narrative comes limping into view. I didn't >>> say I was any good at this game. I'm just an inquiring reader. >>> >>> The painting or photography question is always present: if I do it in >>> this medium, what I am saying or adding to the final artifact? >>> Photo-realist paintings impart a "realism" which is more than real, >>> rivals the camera. How far you can push this genre in competition with >>> digital photography is a moot point. For me it's not a competition >>> between prose-writers and poets; for me, it's a question of how should >>> I write this piece, given that I have the choice of poetry or prose. >>> Damien Hirst's questions come at the thrusting point of roughly 150 >>> years of thought, from the beginning of photography. >>> >>> I wonder if prose poetry is where one doesn't allow oneself the luxury >>> of narrative? >>> >>> Still, you don't answer my question: what does poetry do that other >>> genres don't? It's not narrative, that's for sure. >>> >>> Roger >>> >>> On Mon, Sep 22, 2008 at 4:43 PM, Chris Lott wrote: >>>> >>>> On Mon, Sep 22, 2008 at 03:36, Roger Day wrote: >>>>> >>>>> I'm not contesting our need for narrative; I'm contesting the question >>>>> as to what genre narrative is best suited to. >>>> >>>> Maybe narrative isn't "best" suited to any single genre. >>>> >>>>> Photography made quite a few modes of painting redundant. Indeed, >>>>> Damien Hirst in praise of Gerhard Richter in the Guardian at the >>>>> weekend, said that all that is left to painting is it's surface. And >>>>> that's a lot of painting to fall by the wayside. >>>> >>>> I can't think of many kinds of painting that photography made >>>> redundant. Expanding to drawing, maybe architectural illustration and >>>> some kinds of documentation. Presuming that it made most other modes >>>> irrelevant is to posit a mighty wide-- I'd say meaningless-- kind of >>>> equality of effect. >>>> >>>>> To go on telling stories in poetry means something else once other >>>>> similar modes in other genres are up for comparison. In other words, >>>>> what is unique about poetry? To me, it's the use of parameters to >>>>> pattern words across the page, most usefully done as a collage. You >>>>> see, there are techniques other than narrative. >>>> >>>> No doubt there are, but it seems a bit stifling to consider that there >>>> is just one way or one best way or one way that each type of writing >>>> should be limited to. No narrative in a particular poem sounds fine, >>>> but no narrative in poetry sounds as ridiculous to my ear as only >>>> narrative in fiction or no representation in painting. >>>> >>>> Do *you* write in collage sans narrative? I'm familiar with a small >>>> amount of visual poetry. I looked for yours online but found only >>>> poems here (http://www.badstep.net/text/poetry/index.html) that I'm >>>> not sure are yours. That's not an attack, even if the poems are yours, >>>> because I was curious in seeing precisely what you had in mind when >>>> you spoke of collage. >>>> >>>> The funny thing is I kind of agree that narrative is best suited for >>>> prose, at least when it comes to lengthy stories. There are very few >>>> long poems that work for me primarily because authors of such poems >>>> seem unable to sustain an interesting voice over long poems and I find >>>> myself regularly wondering why the piece isn't prose. >>>> >>>> But that's more about length than narrative, which the poems I like >>>> best tend to favor. And I would contend that poetry has other >>>> qualities that distinguish it from prose than alignment on the page >>>> and that each of those qualities is a tool by which narrative can >>>> usefully and "best" be implemented. Prose summaries of narrative poems >>>> (a whole lot of the poetry out there, right?) are never as good as the >>>> poems. I can buy an argument that a great prose writer might write >>>> something that is at the same level, but that the presence of >>>> narrative means good prose writers would/could continually best the >>>> poets? I don't think so... but isn't that what "narrative is best >>>> suited for prose" implies? >>>> >>>> c >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> New-Poetry mailing list >>>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> My Stuff: http://www.badstep.net/ >>> "I began to warm and chill >>> to objects and their fields" >>> Nick Cave & The Bad Seeds >>> _______________________________________________ >>> New-Poetry mailing list >>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> > > > > -- > My Stuff: http://www.badstep.net/ > "I began to warm and chill > to objects and their fields" > Nick Cave & The Bad Seeds > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > From rog3r.day Mon Sep 22 16:56:40 2008 From: rog3r.day (Roger Day) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 21:56:40 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: poetics is childish In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: sorry - I replied to the wrong email. On Mon, Sep 22, 2008 at 9:46 PM, wrote: > > um, i was agreeing with you about the question being valid. no need to be > huffy and act like a jerk. > > On Mon, 22 Sep 2008, Roger Day wrote: > >> What next? Answering my question might be in order, but I see none of >> you are actually up to it. >> >> Maybe you should throw your crutch away? Ach, you'd only fall over and >> make a fool of yourself. >> >> When Coleridge was writing, the novel - as we know it - was only just >> hoving into view. >> >> ah well. >> >> Roger >> >> On Mon, Sep 22, 2008 at 8:10 PM, wrote: >>> >>> i don't know, if i have an idea for a story generally speaking poetry >>> isn't >>> the first genre i turn to. but I write a lot more poetry than prose >>> because >>> my ideas seem to fit that particular genre more often. for me in poetry, >>> the >>> narrative often comes after a series of poems is written and i start to >>> see >>> how they might fit together in a narrative arc, >> >>> but since when is being a poet a reason one can't work in other genres? >>> I'm >>> a poet but I've also written essays, short stories and even made a few >>> runs >>> at novels. to a large extent what i'm trying to do in each case is >>> largely >>> determined by the initial idea, so I think asking why choose to make it a >>> poem when one is trying to tell a story is a perfectly legitimate one. it >>> doesn't mean choosing to make it a poem is incorrect, but as a choice it >>> warrants examinations as to why taht particular choice was made. >>> >>> On Mon, 22 Sep 2008, John Jeffrey wrote: >>> >>>> I've got to say, the phrase, "the crutch of narrative comes limping into >>>> view" made me laugh out loud. What's next? The the crutch of color to >>>> a >>>> painter? The crutch of tone to a musician? >>>> >>>> And as to "What genre narrative is best suited to," that seems a >>>> backward >>>> question. Poets write poetry. They don't have an idea and then decide >>>> whether it should be a poem or novel, painting or photo, opera or blues, >>>> tap >>>> dance or lap dance. They write a poem. That's how they express their >>>> ideas, images, and (dear gawd) feelings. So if they think & create in a >>>> narrative fashion, it's only sensible that their poetry would be >>>> narrative. >>>> >>>> I doubt Coleridge thought, "Crap, I've got this great story about a >>>> mariner... and me, only a poet." >>>> >>>> John Jeffrey >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ---- >>>> From: Roger Day >>>> To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &, Views" >>>> >>>> Sent: Monday, September 22, 2008 1:21:19 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Re: poetics is childish >>>> >>>> No, collage for me doesn't equal concrete - it's the accretion of >>>> lines, disjoint in their effect. It's probably true that I've written >>>> some "narrative" poems in the past; I try to stick with the accretion >>>> of lines, of images. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't; >>>> sometimes the crutch of narrative comes limping into view. I didn't >>>> say I was any good at this game. I'm just an inquiring reader. >>>> >>>> The painting or photography question is always present: if I do it in >>>> this medium, what I am saying or adding to the final artifact? >>>> Photo-realist paintings impart a "realism" which is more than real, >>>> rivals the camera. How far you can push this genre in competition with >>>> digital photography is a moot point. For me it's not a competition >>>> between prose-writers and poets; for me, it's a question of how should >>>> I write this piece, given that I have the choice of poetry or prose. >>>> Damien Hirst's questions come at the thrusting point of roughly 150 >>>> years of thought, from the beginning of photography. >>>> >>>> I wonder if prose poetry is where one doesn't allow oneself the luxury >>>> of narrative? >>>> >>>> Still, you don't answer my question: what does poetry do that other >>>> genres don't? It's not narrative, that's for sure. >>>> >>>> Roger >>>> >>>> On Mon, Sep 22, 2008 at 4:43 PM, Chris Lott >>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> On Mon, Sep 22, 2008 at 03:36, Roger Day wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> I'm not contesting our need for narrative; I'm contesting the question >>>>>> as to what genre narrative is best suited to. >>>>> >>>>> Maybe narrative isn't "best" suited to any single genre. >>>>> >>>>>> Photography made quite a few modes of painting redundant. Indeed, >>>>>> Damien Hirst in praise of Gerhard Richter in the Guardian at the >>>>>> weekend, said that all that is left to painting is it's surface. And >>>>>> that's a lot of painting to fall by the wayside. >>>>> >>>>> I can't think of many kinds of painting that photography made >>>>> redundant. Expanding to drawing, maybe architectural illustration and >>>>> some kinds of documentation. Presuming that it made most other modes >>>>> irrelevant is to posit a mighty wide-- I'd say meaningless-- kind of >>>>> equality of effect. >>>>> >>>>>> To go on telling stories in poetry means something else once other >>>>>> similar modes in other genres are up for comparison. In other words, >>>>>> what is unique about poetry? To me, it's the use of parameters to >>>>>> pattern words across the page, most usefully done as a collage. You >>>>>> see, there are techniques other than narrative. >>>>> >>>>> No doubt there are, but it seems a bit stifling to consider that there >>>>> is just one way or one best way or one way that each type of writing >>>>> should be limited to. No narrative in a particular poem sounds fine, >>>>> but no narrative in poetry sounds as ridiculous to my ear as only >>>>> narrative in fiction or no representation in painting. >>>>> >>>>> Do *you* write in collage sans narrative? I'm familiar with a small >>>>> amount of visual poetry. I looked for yours online but found only >>>>> poems here (http://www.badstep.net/text/poetry/index.html) that I'm >>>>> not sure are yours. That's not an attack, even if the poems are yours, >>>>> because I was curious in seeing precisely what you had in mind when >>>>> you spoke of collage. >>>>> >>>>> The funny thing is I kind of agree that narrative is best suited for >>>>> prose, at least when it comes to lengthy stories. There are very few >>>>> long poems that work for me primarily because authors of such poems >>>>> seem unable to sustain an interesting voice over long poems and I find >>>>> myself regularly wondering why the piece isn't prose. >>>>> >>>>> But that's more about length than narrative, which the poems I like >>>>> best tend to favor. And I would contend that poetry has other >>>>> qualities that distinguish it from prose than alignment on the page >>>>> and that each of those qualities is a tool by which narrative can >>>>> usefully and "best" be implemented. Prose summaries of narrative poems >>>>> (a whole lot of the poetry out there, right?) are never as good as the >>>>> poems. I can buy an argument that a great prose writer might write >>>>> something that is at the same level, but that the presence of >>>>> narrative means good prose writers would/could continually best the >>>>> poets? I don't think so... but isn't that what "narrative is best >>>>> suited for prose" implies? >>>>> >>>>> c >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> New-Poetry mailing list >>>>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>>>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> My Stuff: http://www.badstep.net/ >>>> "I began to warm and chill >>>> to objects and their fields" >>>> Nick Cave & The Bad Seeds >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> New-Poetry mailing list >>>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> New-Poetry mailing list >>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> My Stuff: http://www.badstep.net/ >> "I began to warm and chill >> to objects and their fields" >> Nick Cave & The Bad Seeds >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- My Stuff: http://www.badstep.net/ "I began to warm and chill to objects and their fields" Nick Cave & The Bad Seeds From jjeffreymail Mon Sep 22 17:12:15 2008 From: jjeffreymail (John Jeffrey) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 14:12:15 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: poetics is childish Message-ID: <753579.56401.qm@web54104.mail.re2.yahoo.com> No, no, you replied to the right email. It was mine, which is down there in the chain somewhere. I don't think you acted like a jerk, though. People are touchy about their art. There are other narrative poems I could've used as example, from Lengfellow to Frost, when the novel was plenty hoved, so I don't think it was simply bad timing on Coleridge's part. I tend to think that some folks are just poets, period. Tennyson, for example didn't write diddly besides poetry, not even a preface to any of his books. Others are better suited to not write any poetry. (I'm talking to you, Joyce.) There aren't too many Hardy's out there. As for your question, "What is unique to poetry?", while I don't accept it as a fair question, I'll give it a shot. Let me ponder it for a few hours or so, so as to not sound too foolish or sappy or stupid or... And I can't throw my crutch away. You see, on me, it's actually a leg. John J ----- Original Message ---- From: Roger Day To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &, Views" Sent: Monday, September 22, 2008 4:56:40 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Re: poetics is childish sorry - I replied to the wrong email. On Mon, Sep 22, 2008 at 9:46 PM, wrote: > > um, i was agreeing with you about the question being valid. no need to be > huffy and act like a jerk. > > On Mon, 22 Sep 2008, Roger Day wrote: > >> What next? Answering my question might be in order, but I see none of >> you are actually up to it. >> >> Maybe you should throw your crutch away? Ach, you'd only fall over and >> make a fool of yourself. >> >> When Coleridge was writing, the novel - as we know it - was only just >> hoving into view. >> >> ah well. >> >> Roger >> >> On Mon, Sep 22, 2008 at 8:10 PM, wrote: >>> >>> i don't know, if i have an idea for a story generally speaking poetry >>> isn't >>> the first genre i turn to. but I write a lot more poetry than prose >>> because >>> my ideas seem to fit that particular genre more often. for me in poetry, >>> the >>> narrative often comes after a series of poems is written and i start to >>> see >>> how they might fit together in a narrative arc, >> >>> but since when is being a poet a reason one can't work in other genres? >>> I'm >>> a poet but I've also written essays, short stories and even made a few >>> runs >>> at novels. to a large extent what i'm trying to do in each case is >>> largely >>> determined by the initial idea, so I think asking why choose to make it a >>> poem when one is trying to tell a story is a perfectly legitimate one. it >>> doesn't mean choosing to make it a poem is incorrect, but as a choice it >>> warrants examinations as to why taht particular choice was made. >>> >>> On Mon, 22 Sep 2008, John Jeffrey wrote: >>> >>>> I've got to say, the phrase, "the crutch of narrative comes limping into >>>> view" made me laugh out loud. What's next? The the crutch of color to >>>> a >>>> painter? The crutch of tone to a musician? >>>> >>>> And as to "What genre narrative is best suited to," that seems a >>>> backward >>>> question. Poets write poetry. They don't have an idea and then decide >>>> whether it should be a poem or novel, painting or photo, opera or blues, >>>> tap >>>> dance or lap dance. They write a poem. That's how they express their >>>> ideas, images, and (dear gawd) feelings. So if they think & create in a >>>> narrative fashion, it's only sensible that their poetry would be >>>> narrative. >>>> >>>> I doubt Coleridge thought, "Crap, I've got this great story about a >>>> mariner... and me, only a poet." >>>> >>>> John Jeffrey >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ---- >>>> From: Roger Day >>>> To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &, Views" >>>> >>>> Sent: Monday, September 22, 2008 1:21:19 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Re: poetics is childish >>>> >>>> No, collage for me doesn't equal concrete - it's the accretion of >>>> lines, disjoint in their effect. It's probably true that I've written >>>> some "narrative" poems in the past; I try to stick with the accretion >>>> of lines, of images. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't; >>>> sometimes the crutch of narrative comes limping into view. I didn't >>>> say I was any good at this game. I'm just an inquiring reader. >>>> >>>> The painting or photography question is always present: if I do it in >>>> this medium, what I am saying or adding to the final artifact? >>>> Photo-realist paintings impart a "realism" which is more than real, >>>> rivals the camera. How far you can push this genre in competition with >>>> digital photography is a moot point. For me it's not a competition >>>> between prose-writers and poets; for me, it's a question of how should >>>> I write this piece, given that I have the choice of poetry or prose. >>>> Damien Hirst's questions come at the thrusting point of roughly 150 >>>> years of thought, from the beginning of photography. >>>> >>>> I wonder if prose poetry is where one doesn't allow oneself the luxury >>>> of narrative? >>>> >>>> Still, you don't answer my question: what does poetry do that other >>>> genres don't? It's not narrative, that's for sure. >>>> >>>> Roger >>>> >>>> On Mon, Sep 22, 2008 at 4:43 PM, Chris Lott >>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> On Mon, Sep 22, 2008 at 03:36, Roger Day wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> I'm not contesting our need for narrative; I'm contesting the question >>>>>> as to what genre narrative is best suited to. >>>>> >>>>> Maybe narrative isn't "best" suited to any single genre. >>>>> >>>>>> Photography made quite a few modes of painting redundant. Indeed, >>>>>> Damien Hirst in praise of Gerhard Richter in the Guardian at the >>>>>> weekend, said that all that is left to painting is it's surface. And >>>>>> that's a lot of painting to fall by the wayside. >>>>> >>>>> I can't think of many kinds of painting that photography made >>>>> redundant. Expanding to drawing, maybe architectural illustration and >>>>> some kinds of documentation. Presuming that it made most other modes >>>>> irrelevant is to posit a mighty wide-- I'd say meaningless-- kind of >>>>> equality of effect. >>>>> >>>>>> To go on telling stories in poetry means something else once other >>>>>> similar modes in other genres are up for comparison. In other words, >>>>>> what is unique about poetry? To me, it's the use of parameters to >>>>>> pattern words across the page, most usefully done as a collage. You >>>>>> see, there are techniques other than narrative. >>>>> >>>>> No doubt there are, but it seems a bit stifling to consider that there >>>>> is just one way or one best way or one way that each type of writing >>>>> should be limited to. No narrative in a particular poem sounds fine, >>>>> but no narrative in poetry sounds as ridiculous to my ear as only >>>>> narrative in fiction or no representation in painting. >>>>> >>>>> Do *you* write in collage sans narrative? I'm familiar with a small >>>>> amount of visual poetry. I looked for yours online but found only >>>>> poems here (http://www.badstep.net/text/poetry/index.html) that I'm >>>>> not sure are yours. That's not an attack, even if the poems are yours, >>>>> because I was curious in seeing precisely what you had in mind when >>>>> you spoke of collage. >>>>> >>>>> The funny thing is I kind of agree that narrative is best suited for >>>>> prose, at least when it comes to lengthy stories. There are very few >>>>> long poems that work for me primarily because authors of such poems >>>>> seem unable to sustain an interesting voice over long poems and I find >>>>> myself regularly wondering why the piece isn't prose. >>>>> >>>>> But that's more about length than narrative, which the poems I like >>>>> best tend to favor. And I would contend that poetry has other >>>>> qualities that distinguish it from prose than alignment on the page >>>>> and that each of those qualities is a tool by which narrative can >>>>> usefully and "best" be implemented. Prose summaries of narrative poems >>>>> (a whole lot of the poetry out there, right?) are never as good as the >>>>> poems. I can buy an argument that a great prose writer might write >>>>> something that is at the same level, but that the presence of >>>>> narrative means good prose writers would/could continually best the >>>>> poets? I don't think so... but isn't that what "narrative is best >>>>> suited for prose" implies? >>>>> >>>>> c >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> New-Poetry mailing list >>>>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>>>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> My Stuff: http://www.badstep.net/ >>>> "I began to warm and chill >>>> to objects and their fields" >>>> Nick Cave & The Bad Seeds >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> New-Poetry mailing list >>>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> New-Poetry mailing list >>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> My Stuff: http://www.badstep.net/ >> "I began to warm and chill >> to objects and their fields" >> Nick Cave & The Bad Seeds >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- My Stuff: http://www.badstep.net/ "I began to warm and chill to objects and their fields" Nick Cave & The Bad Seeds _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd Mon Sep 22 17:18:42 2008 From: grahamd (David Graham) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 16:18:42 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] poetics is childish In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Verse is written in lines, not paragraphs--that's about the only definition I know of that holds water. As soon as you attempt anything more--e.g. poetry "foregrounds" language itself more than prose does; poetry is more metaphoric; poetry is lyrical rather than narrative at base, etc.--you soon find so many exceptions thronging that it's pointless to continue. So: poetry's "unique point" is lineation. Yes, I know there is such a thing as a prose poem. But I've never seen any definition of that which did not rapidly dissolve into mysticism. I like to call them things "prosies," but the term has not caught on, I notice. . . . On 9/22/08 3:43 PM, "Roger Day" wrote: > I agree with you. But I was also wondering what you might describe as > poetry's unique point compared with other genres? ==================================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/About%20Me.html Poetry Library: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ==================================================== From amyhappens Mon Sep 22 18:42:55 2008 From: amyhappens (amy king) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 15:42:55 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] This Friday - Sept. 26th @ 7 p.m. Message-ID: <689577.23861.qm@web83304.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> September 26th @ 7 p.m. - Stain Bar - Williamsburg, Brooklyn ? ** Bajandas, Grenier, Maxwell, Reines, Shmailo, & Virgil ** ? ~~~~ ? Photos/Bios here: http://thestainofpoetry.wordpress.com/2008/07/03/friday-september-26-2008-700-pm/ ? ~~~~ ? Arpine Konyalian Grenier is a poet turned scientist and musician. Her work has appeared in How2, Columbia Poetry Review, The Iowa Review, Phoebe, Big Bridge, diode and elsewhere, including several anthologies. Part, Part Euphrates (NeO Pepper Press, 2007) is her latest publication. ? ~~~~ ? Kristi Maxwell currently lives and writes in Cincinnati. She?s the author of Realm Sixty-Four (Ahsahta, 2008), Elsewhere & Wise (Dancing Girl Press, 2008), and Hush Sessions (Saturnalia, forthcoming in 2009). ? ~~~ ? Alan Bajandas was picked up hitchhiking two days ago by a pain pill-popping Italian-American bounty hunter named Jason. Jason?a self-professed Wiccan, former Marine sniper, 23-year mixed martial arts master, widower, and lover of transsexual women?was on his way to Knoxville, TN to persuade his drunk-driving father back to rehab by means of ?a very large firearm.? Jason had a heart of pure fucking gold and bought Alan a Smart Water. Alan was born and raised in Texas and will soon return to Brooklyn where he now resides. He is editor of The Open Face Sandwich, a print annual of uncommon and unpublishable prose. ? ~~~~ ? Ariana Reines is the author of The Cow (Alberta Prize, FenceBooks 2006) and Coeur de Lion (Mal-O-Mar 2007). Two volumes of translation will appear in 2009: My Heart Laid Bare by Charles Baudelaire, for Mal-O-Mar, and Carnet de bal d?une courtisane by Griselidis Real, for Semiotext(e). She is under commission with The Foundry Theatre in New York, making a play that will premiere in January 2009. ? ~~~~ ? Larissa Shmailo?s new chapbook is A Cure for Suicide (Cervena Barva Press 2008), and new poetry CD is Exorcism (SongCrew 2008). Larissa has been published in Fulcrum, Rattapallax, Drunken Boat, MiPoesias, and other publications. Larissa translated the Russian Futurist opera Victory over the Sun by A. Kruchenych; a DVD of the original English-language production is part of the collection of the New York Museum of Modern Art. She also contributed translations to the anthology Contemporary Russian Poetry published by Dalkey Archive Press. Larissa Shmailo is a director of TWiN Poetry, an informal international collective of recording poets and their listeners and a public coordinator for the annual Fulcrum. Her first poetry CD, The No-Net World (SongCrew 2006) has been heard on radio and Internet broadcasts across the U.S. and the U.K. Larissa is listed in the Poetry Kit Who?s Who in poetry. ? ~~~~ ? Erin Virgil is an MFA student at Naropa University. For money she writes the greetings in campy greeting cards and moonlights as a bad secretary. Besides the front page in a Steve McQueen calendar, she has not published any writing lately. ? ~~~~ ? stain 766 grand street brooklyn, ny 11211 (L train to Grand Street, 1 block west) 718/387-7840 open daily @ 5 p.m. ? ~~~~ ? Hosted by Amy King and Ana Bozicevic ? _______ Recent work http://www.writing.upenn.edu/pennsound/x/King.html Amy's Alias http://amyking.org/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wwmorgan Mon Sep 22 20:03:24 2008 From: wwmorgan (Bill Morgan) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 19:03:24 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] poetics is childish In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <01e601c91d0f$cc3eea40$64bcbec0$@edu> Verse is written in lines, not paragraphs--that's about the only definition I know of that holds water. . . . So: poetry's "unique point" is lineation. --David Graham ____________ I think I'm in the unusual position of disagreeing with David. As I read his response, he's equating verse with poetry, and I think that's an error. I don't know if I'll be able to sustain this position or not, but here's an effort at defining Poetry (Note: As I'm using the term, "Poetry" is a descriptive, not an evaluative term. Thus I haven't even touched on the knotty problem of what constitutes good Poetry): *Poetry*: Poetry's special province is meaningful repetition. Thus poetry is language, written or oral, with a high concentration of *meaningful repetition* (visual, aural, syntactic, etc.). Thus all verse is poetry, but not all poetry is verse. *Poetry within prose*: Certain passages in prose may be poetry without being poems. To wit, "The flood was made, the wind was nearly calm, and being bound down the river, there was nothing for it but to come to, and wait for the turn of the tide" (from Conrad's Heart of Darkness, quoted from memory). *Poem*: I think it would follow that a *Poem* is a piece of language, written or oral, with an identifiable beginning and end-point and that exhibits a high concentration of *meaningful repetition*. *Prose Poem*: A prose poem is a piece of language exploiting all the usual features of poetry (including, of course, meaningful repetition) except the line. Best I can do right now. Show me I'm wrong. I'll live through the humiliation. Cheers, Bill Morgan From cstroffo Mon Sep 22 21:16:12 2008 From: cstroffo (Chris Stroffolino) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 18:16:12 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: poetics is childish In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Don't know which question you mean off-hand Roger, but if you're asking about the history of narrative poetry, I do understand why many say that the rise of the novel as a separate genre (to say nothing of other non-poetic narrative) definitely coincided with a lessening of narrative poetry. The other, somewhat overlapping issue, is the rise of "free" (or non- rhyming) verse... If poetry no longer rhymes for most, and there's short stories and even short short stories, etc., it's understandable why many find "narrative poetry" an endangered species... On Sep 22, 2008, at 1:43 PM, Roger Day wrote: > I agree with you. But I was also wondering what you might describe as > poetry's unique point compared with other genres? > > Seeing as most of you are content to take pot-shots, rather than > answer that question, here's Nick Laird's attempt at an answer: > > http://www.guardian.co.uk/culture/2008/sep/20/poetry > > Roger > > On Mon, Sep 22, 2008 at 6:50 PM, wrote: >> In a message dated 9/22/2008 7:36:30 AM Eastern Daylight Time, >> rog3r.day at gmail.com writes: >> >> I'm contesting the question >> as to what genre narrative is best suited to. >> >> Photography made quite a few modes of painting redundant. Indeed, >> Damien Hirst in praise of Gerhard Richter in the Guardian at the >> weekend, said that all that is left to painting is it's surface. And >> that's a lot of painting to fall by the wayside. >> >> To go on telling stories in poetry means something else once other >> similar modes in other genres are up for comparison. In other words, >> what is unique about poetry? To me, it's the use of parameters to >> pattern words across the page, most usefully done as a collage. You >> see, there are techniques other than narrative. >> >> Roger, I don't know think I'll take my notions of art criticism >> from Damien >> Hirst. >> He certainly couldn't tell Richter anything about painting...surface, >> texture, content, >> concept, or otherwise. Saying that all that is left painting is >> surface, is >> as much saying >> that the window to the universe is still there, waiting, open, >> blank, a >> plane in space ready for >> anything. >> >> There is a whole generation of photo-realists doing quite well in >> art world, >> 100+ years >> after the advent of photography. And, of course, lot of >> photography is >> completely abstract, >> so the a mechanical means of image capture has become just another >> medium. >> >> I don't think poetry is necessarily the best genre for narrative. >> It's still >> a very good >> means for the 'telling scene', a view into or way of imaginatively >> unfolding >> a larger, >> untold story. >> Finnegan >> >> >> >> ________________________________ >> Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial >> challenges? Check >> out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and >> calculators. >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > > > > -- > My Stuff: http://www.badstep.net/ > "I began to warm and chill > to objects and their fields" > Nick Cave & The Bad Seeds > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From Opus40-01 Mon Sep 22 21:51:58 2008 From: Opus40-01 (TheOldMole) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 21:51:58 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] poetics is childish In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <48D84BBE.3050908@opus40.org> David Graham wrote: > Verse is written in lines, not paragraphs--that's about the only definition > I know of that holds water. > > As soon as you attempt anything more--e.g. poetry "foregrounds" language > itself more than prose does; poetry is more metaphoric; poetry is lyrical > rather than narrative at base, etc.--you soon find so many exceptions > thronging that it's pointless to continue. > > So: poetry's "unique point" is lineation. Yes, I know there is such a > thing as a prose poem. But I've never seen any definition of that which did > not rapidly dissolve into mysticism. I like to call them things "prosies," > but the term has not caught on, I notice. . . . > That's because Bob Grumman didn't coin it. > > On 9/22/08 3:43 PM, "Roger Day" wrote: > > >> I agree with you. But I was also wondering what you might describe as >> poetry's unique point compared with other genres? >> > > > ==================================================== > David Graham > grahamd at ripon.edu > Home Page: > http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/About%20Me.html > > Poetry Library: > http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html > ==================================================== > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ Don't forget to order your copy of FILM NOIR! http://stores.lulu.com/store.php?fAcctID=2712239 From jjeffreymail Mon Sep 22 22:49:33 2008 From: jjeffreymail (John Jeffrey) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 19:49:33 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] poetics is childish Message-ID: <314213.8540.qm@web54107.mail.re2.yahoo.com> I set down to write, as I said I would earlier, my attempt at defining poetry's unique point--and I had big complicated plans--but it fizzled. Here's how it went: I started out fighting David Graham's simple definition that poetry's unique point is lineation (see below). Then after trying to make light of it, there it was, the truth of it, laid out likes lines of molehills. And yet I still want something more romantic in there, some mention of music, or brilliance, something about the curve of a woman's calf. But no, lineation it is. Sigh. John J -------------------------------- I don't agree with the lineation theory. Or more precisely, I don't agree that all there is. There has to be more! There just HAS to be! (He cries, hands to head.) Otherwise, I could just break out anything into lines and cobble a poem, like: MOLE (animal) by Wikipedia Moles are the majority of the members of the mammal family Talpidae in the order Soricomorpha. Although most moles burrow, some species are aquatic or semi-aquatic. Moles have cylindrical bodies covered in fur, with small or covered eyes; the ears are generally not visible. They eat small invertebrate animals living underground. Moles can be found in North America, Europe and Asia. Male moles are called boars; females are called sows. A group of moles is called a labor. Hmmm. Wait a minute. Maybe that changes my mind. Now I see that you can't really separate defining what poetry is without also defining (or trying to define) what good poetry is, because I've actually read poetry worse than that "poem" above. But I've never believed that they're not poems, just that they're bad poems. So then, yes, maybe the only real way to distinguish it is the lines... Crap. He's right. ----- Original Message ---- From: David Graham To: NewPoetry Sent: Monday, September 22, 2008 5:18:42 PM Subject: [New-Poetry] poetics is childish Verse is written in lines, not paragraphs--that's about the only definition I know of that holds water. As soon as you attempt anything more--e.g. poetry "foregrounds" language itself more than prose does; poetry is more metaphoric; poetry is lyrical rather than narrative at base, etc.--you soon find so many exceptions thronging that it's pointless to continue. So: poetry's "unique point" is lineation. Yes, I know there is such a thing as a prose poem. But I've never seen any definition of that which did not rapidly dissolve into mysticism. I like to call them things "prosies," but the term has not caught on, I notice. . . . On 9/22/08 3:43 PM, "Roger Day" wrote: > I agree with you. But I was also wondering what you might describe as > poetry's unique point compared with other genres? ==================================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/About%20Me.html Poetry Library: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ==================================================== _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini Tue Sep 23 01:46:28 2008 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2008 07:46:28 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] poetics is childish In-Reply-To: <314213.8540.qm@web54107.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <314213.8540.qm@web54107.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4b65c2d70809222246l2c1f79d2w7ebc209a6f59d096@mail.gmail.com> *Soricomorpha: Talpidae* *To the Old Mole* * * mammals mammals mammals mammals mammals mammals mammals mammals mammals mammals mammals mammals mammals mammals mammals mammals mammals mammals mammals mammals mammals mammals mammals mammals mammals mammals mammals mammals mammals mammals Asia, North America, Europe the majority of members_ MOLES cylindrical bodies, covered eyes underground living boars & sows in labor _semi- & aquatic_ invertebrate eaters mammals mammals mammals mammals mammals mammals mammals mammals mammals mammals mammals mammals mammals mammals mammals mammals mammals mammals mammals mammals mammals mammals mammals mammals mammals mammals mammals mammals mammals mammals On Tue, Sep 23, 2008 at 4:49 AM, John Jeffrey wrote: > I set down to write, as I said I would earlier, my attempt at defining > poetry's unique point--and I had big complicated plans--but it fizzled. > Here's how it went: I started out fighting David Graham's simple definition > that poetry's unique point is lineation (see below). Then after trying to > make light of it, there it was, the truth of it, laid out likes lines of > molehills. > > And yet I still want something more romantic in there, some mention of > music, or brilliance, something about the curve of a woman's calf. > > But no, lineation it is. Sigh. > > John J > > -------------------------------- > > I don't agree with the lineation theory. Or more precisely, I don't agree > that all there is. There has to be more! There just HAS to be! (He cries, > hands to head.) Otherwise, I could just break out anything into lines and > cobble a poem, like: > > > MOLE (animal) > by Wikipedia > > Moles are the majority of the members > of the mammal family Talpidae in the order > Soricomorpha. Although most moles burrow, > some species are aquatic > or semi-aquatic. > > Moles have cylindrical bodies covered > in fur, with small or covered eyes; > the ears are generally not visible. > They eat small invertebrate animals > living underground. > > Moles can be found in North America, > Europe and Asia. Male moles > are called boars; females are called sows. > A group of moles is called > a labor. > > Hmmm. Wait a minute. Maybe that changes my mind. Now I see that you > can't really separate defining what poetry is without also defining (or > trying to define) what good poetry is, because I've actually read poetry > worse than that "poem" above. But I've never believed that they're not > poems, just that they're bad poems. So then, yes, maybe the only real way > to distinguish it is the lines... > > Crap. He's right. > > > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: David Graham > To: NewPoetry > Sent: Monday, September 22, 2008 5:18:42 PM > Subject: [New-Poetry] poetics is childish > > Verse is written in lines, not paragraphs--that's about the only definition > I know of that holds water. > > As soon as you attempt anything more--e.g. poetry "foregrounds" language > itself more than prose does; poetry is more metaphoric; poetry is lyrical > rather than narrative at base, etc.--you soon find so many exceptions > thronging that it's pointless to continue. > > So: poetry's "unique point" is lineation. Yes, I know there is such a > thing as a prose poem. But I've never seen any definition of that which > did > not rapidly dissolve into mysticism. I like to call them things "prosies," > but the term has not caught on, I notice. . . . > > > On 9/22/08 3:43 PM, "Roger Day" wrote: > > > I agree with you. But I was also wondering what you might describe as > > poetry's unique point compared with other genres? > > > ==================================================== > David Graham > grahamd at ripon.edu > Home Page: > http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/About%20Me.html > > Poetry Library: > http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html > ==================================================== > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames Tue Sep 23 08:18:39 2008 From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2008 08:18:39 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: Poem by one of our authors on Verse Daily Message-ID: Forwarded for David, who is having posting problems... **************Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and calculators. (http://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: David Baratier Subject: Poem by one of our authors on Verse Daily Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 20:09:47 -0700 (PDT) Size: 2839 URL: From chris.lott Tue Sep 23 10:19:11 2008 From: chris.lott (Chris Lott) Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2008 06:19:11 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] poetics is childish In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <9b1b9dab0809230719m74e3bab7k2dead74e23fe526b@mail.gmail.com> I agree with David and I did answer this in my post-- what poetry has that prose generally doesn't is a concept of the line rather than the sentence. I reserve the word verse for formal poetry, which of course has other features not typically found in prose. The weasel words are necessary... it's not an Aristotelian definition-- what definition in art ever is?-- but more of a quantum probability exercise. I wonder at the question, though. Why not ask it the other way: what does prose offer that poetry doesn't? What distinguishes prose from anything else except in a long litany of what it DOESN'T have compared to any other kind of word assemblage? One thing prose has, I guess, is lower expectations. I expect it to have filler and transition and setting of the scene and all the boring things necessary to sustain a story at length. Don't get me wrong-- I love me some novels-- but they necessarily have more visible workings. I have higher expectations for poems; I expect the language to work harder (or more elegantly) and look for less accumulation of power and more instant acceleration. I hate the definition game, though, and don't really see the point of it. I know a prose poem when I see it, and some fiction books are nearly full of them... but that "nearly" is what would make me file it with the novels instead of the prose poems (if I bothered with such classifications). Perhaps the reason you aren't getting your question answered directly, Roger, is that you posit as fact a whole host of other-- and judging by the responses-- perhaps more interesting set of claims as fact that are obviously debatable. c From chris.lott Tue Sep 23 10:43:24 2008 From: chris.lott (Chris Lott) Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2008 06:43:24 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: poetics is childish In-Reply-To: References: <411852.51875.qm@web54102.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <9b1b9dab0809230743v5f7a75e2ibdda38db014dc2d1@mail.gmail.com> On Mon, Sep 22, 2008 at 12:37, Roger Day wrote: > > When Coleridge was writing, the novel - as we know it - was only just > hoving into view. Kind of. But I still call shenanigans here. Coleridge reviewed (positively and not) quite a few novels and, in his letters, talks about reading (and recommeds) many more. He chose (if choice is an apt word) not to write in that mode, but I don't think it has much to do with the novel being an obscure, not yet capable form. In light of your positioning of poetry and prose, I guess a question would be what would Coleridge do today? Would he abandon poetry for prose? Would any great poet? Why do they persist in writing it even today if there are no distinctions or advantages? For me, I "just" do so because it tends to fit my thoughts and the way I want to "speak." Not always, but much of the time. c From jforjames Tue Sep 23 10:51:11 2008 From: jforjames (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2008 10:51:11 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: BMC festival this weekend In-Reply-To: <27690399.20080922214828@bellsouth.net> References: <27690399.20080922214828@bellsouth.net> Message-ID: <8CAEBA2F3FE15E6-1198-761@WEBMAIL-MC10.sysops.aol.com> -----Original Message----- From: Jeff Davis Sent: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 9:48 pm Subject: BMC festival this weekend Dear friends and fellows, Just in case you hadn't yet heard, I wanted to let you know about an amazing festival honoring the 75th Anniversary of Black Mountain College that's taking place this Thursday through Saturday in Hickory. It's a collaboration between Lenoir-Rhyne College, The Hickory Museum of Art, and Asheville's Black Mountain College Museum + Arts Center. For a complete rundown of events, you can check this link: http://www.blackmountaincollegecelebration.com/index.htm In the true spirit of the college, there will be music, dance, poetry (I'm delighted to be reading in a roster that includes Galway Kinnell, Lee Ann Brown, Lisa Jarnot, Thomas Meyer, Michael Rumaker, Thomas Rain Crowe, and Ted Pope), and visual arts galore as well.? It promises to be a real hoot, so if you're able to head over to Hickory for any part of it, it's unlikely indeed that you'll be disappointed. Hope to see you there, Jeff On the web at http://naturespoetry.blogspot.com On the air Sundays at 2:00 on WPVM 103.5 FM, or 24/7 via http://wpvm.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From robin.hamilton2 Tue Sep 23 11:10:53 2008 From: robin.hamilton2 (Robin Hamilton) Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2008 16:10:53 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: poetics is childish References: Message-ID: Narrative ... Sideways on this ... The middle nineteenth century in England skewered both narrative poetry and long/extended poetry. In the UK, this manifested itself in Pawselgrave's +Golden Treasury+, and in the US in Poe's commentary on The Raven. In the 1820s, *well into the Rise of the Novel, Byron was selling (and having read) as many copies of Don Juan as Scott was selling his Waverlies. I'd agree with Roger that there are severe problematics in the use of narrative in poetry, but I doubt it's as simple as The Rise of the Novel. (Or Reality TV.) Browning's +The Ring and the Book+ wasn't so much a magnificent failure ... As what? But reverse-engineer some major "narrative" poems -- why doesn't The Iliad or The Pardoner's Tale work as well in prose, even in translation? When did narrative in poetry end? Berryman's Sonnets has the same *implied narrative structure (it rips it off) as Shakespeare's Sonnets, and Lowell's +Life Studies+ has a strong explicit narrative. So we have powerful narrative in USAmerican poetry at least as late as the sixties. But for the real brandy of the damned when it comes to narrative poetry, consider any of D.M.Black's poetry from the Red/Black Judge poems of the Sixties up to Melusine in the Eighties. Things poetry can do that prose can't. Robin Hamilon From skip Tue Sep 23 11:14:54 2008 From: skip (Skip Fox) Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2008 10:14:54 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Dictionaires???? In-Reply-To: <689577.23861.qm@web83304.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <821800413FE24E38AE0B5AD3CCD8D217@win.louisiana.edu> I'm wondering what your desks (or chairs) have next to the computer (or book or pad or . . .) by way of dictionary? I have The American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language. Of course I have dozens of others in including an unabridged, The OED, and two vols. of The Random House Dictionary of American Slang as well as medical, sexual, and foreign dictionaries, but The American Heritage, is always within reach. Question 2 (and this would be of great benefit): What are the best dictionaries on the web, either free or otherwise? (Maybe this was a question years ago, but I cannot remember.) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames Tue Sep 23 11:13:14 2008 From: jforjames (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2008 11:13:14 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: Poem by one of our authors on Verse Daily In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8CAEBA608B36D66-1198-92C@WEBMAIL-MC10.sysops.aol.com> This email blockade that David Baratier is experiencing has me flummoxed. We have periodic general outages, system problems, etc.,?but is anyone else having a persistant problem with their emails being bounced? Jim Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: JforJames at aol.com To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Tue, 23 Sep 2008 8:18 am Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: Poem by one of our authors on Verse Daily Forwarded for David, who is having posting problems... Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and calculators. Attached Message From: David Baratier To: jforjames at aol.com Subject: Poem by one of our authors on Verse Daily Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 20:09:47 -0700 (PDT) im-- Can you forward this to the list, I give up. 've had other things to contribute I wrote a nice thing hen Reggie died, but that was lost, it never works. aybe you should just sign me off. ----------------- Today's poem is by Steve Davenport opular Science She drops the big white bullet palm to palm o palm like stepping down on swinging stairs o the top of Big Rock Candy Mountain, here the good cells sing in the cigarette rees and there's always ice and whiskey too. er mouth's blistered from chemo and she's full of holes as she goes where hydrocodone rows in the acetaminophen shoals. he laughs when I write our hearts make morphine. he wr ites you're three hours away happy in a book, floating in a tub. opyright ? 2008 Steve Davenport All rights reserved rom The Literary Review eprinted by Verse Daily? with permission Be well David Baratier, Editor Pavement Saw Press 21 Empire Street ontpelier OH 43543 ttp://pavementsaw.org Subscribe to our e-mail listserv at ttp://pavementsaw.org/list/?p=subscribe&id=1 _______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From robin.hamilton2 Tue Sep 23 11:26:38 2008 From: robin.hamilton2 (Robin Hamilton) Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2008 16:26:38 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: poetics is childish References: <411852.51875.qm@web54102.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <9b1b9dab0809230743v5f7a75e2ibdda38db014dc2d1@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7224E5F803DD44FE8C7D194E90C8B8E6@CoreDuo> > On Mon, Sep 22, 2008 at 12:37, Roger Day wrote: >> >> When Coleridge was writing, the novel - as we know it - was only just >> hoving into view. Coleridge sucks. Forget the Ancient M, he sold the pass with the excruciating revison of "Dejection: A Letter" to "Dejection: An Ode". Man coulda been The Very First Confessional Poet Ever (except mibee Petrarch and Gascoigne) , but he blew it. Gizza a break, man, if he had run with it, he could have invented Rap Poetry An Hundred Years Before The Day. Think of the expresssion on the faces of Willum, Dotty, and the rest when he read his reply to "Tiny Infants Trail Clouds of Glory" at that cottage in Grassmere when he read the hot-off-the-press riposte. Love to have been a bedbug on a Grassmere wall on *that day. Robin From grahamd Tue Sep 23 11:42:34 2008 From: grahamd (David Graham) Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2008 10:42:34 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: poetics is childish In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On 9/23/08 10:10 AM, "Robin Hamilton" wrote: > So we have powerful narrative in USAmerican poetry at least as late > as the sixties. ============================= Well, yes. And attentive observers might have noticed the existence of a group calling themselves The Expansive Poets, who explicitly championed narrative on into the 1990s and beyond, producing a healthy stream of books (critical as well as poetic). Among recent US poets who have produced notable work in various narrative modes are Rita Dove, Donald Hall, Louis Simpson, Gwendolyn Brooks, Hayden Carruth, Fred Chappell, W. D. Snodgrass, Sydney Lea, B. H. Fairchild, Marilyn Nelson, Ellen Bryant Voigt, Philip Levine, Albert Goldbarth, Andrew Hudgins, Mark Jarman, Kim Addonizio, and David Mason. That's just off the top of my head. My point is that, if narrative poetry is dead, someone forgot to inform the poets! ==================================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/About%20Me.html Poetry Library: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ==================================================== From grahamd Tue Sep 23 11:44:24 2008 From: grahamd (David Graham) Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2008 10:44:24 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: Poem by one of our authors on Verse Daily In-Reply-To: <8CAEBA608B36D66-1198-92C@WEBMAIL-MC10.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: I just had a post bounced this morning. When I resent it, it seems to have gone through. So, not yet a persistent problem, but. . . . On 9/23/08 10:13 AM, "jforjames at aol.com" wrote: > This email blockade that David Baratier is experiencing has me flummoxed. We > have periodic general outages, system problems, etc., but is anyone else > having a persistant problem with their emails being bounced? > Jim Finnegan > ==================================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/About%20Me.html Poetry Library: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ==================================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard Tue Sep 23 11:46:38 2008 From: halvard (Halvard Johnson) Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2008 10:46:38 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Dictionaires???? In-Reply-To: <821800413FE24E38AE0B5AD3CCD8D217@win.louisiana.edu> References: <821800413FE24E38AE0B5AD3CCD8D217@win.louisiana.edu> Message-ID: Throw 'em all away, Skip. Here's all you need (except for the OED, of course). http://www.onelook.com/ Hal McCain / Palin -- Just say thanks but no thanks. They're a bridge to nowhere. Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at earthlink.net halvard at gmail.com http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html On Sep 23, 2008, at 10:14 AM, Skip Fox wrote: > I?m wondering what your desks (or chairs) have next to the computer > (or book or pad or . . .) by way of dictionary? > > I have The American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language. > > Of course I have dozens of others in including an unabridged, The > OED, and two vols. of The Random House Dictionary of American Slang > as well as medical, sexual, and foreign dictionaries, but The > American Heritage, is always within reach. > > Question 2 (and this would be of great benefit): What are the best > dictionaries on the web, either free or otherwise? > > (Maybe this was a question years ago, but I cannot remember.) > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mandolin Tue Sep 23 11:50:36 2008 From: mandolin (Mike Snider) Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2008 11:50:36 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: poetics is childish In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <166601723335803494490080894269530266210-Webmail2@me.com> I'd never heard of Black, but after reading a few things online, I've ordered his Collected from Amazon UK -- and even with overseas shipping, it's about $40 cheaper than from Amazon US. Thanks, Robin. And for what it's worth in this thread, I somewhat reluctantly go with David Graham -- poetry is distinguished by lineation -- and am completely baffled by those who see narrative in poetry as in any way problematic. Vikram Seth's Golden Gate is just wonderful; Glyn Maxwell's Time's Fool is a great winter read; Sam Gwynn's Narcissiad is the funniest (and maybe the best) piece of poetic theory I ever read. ----- Sent from webmail, so I'm not at my computer. http://www.mikesnider.org/formalblog for the Sonnetarium On Tuesday, September 23, 2008, at 11:10AM, "Robin Hamilton" wrote: >Narrative ... > > Sideways on this ... > >The middle nineteenth century in England skewered both narrative poetry and >long/extended poetry. > >In the UK, this manifested itself in Pawselgrave's +Golden Treasury+, and in >the US in Poe's commentary on The Raven. > >In the 1820s, *well into the Rise of the Novel, Byron was selling (and >having read) as many copies of Don Juan as Scott was selling his Waverlies. > >I'd agree with Roger that there are severe problematics in the use of >narrative in poetry, but I doubt it's as simple as The Rise of the Novel. >(Or Reality TV.) > > Browning's +The Ring and the Book+ wasn't so much a magnificent failure >... > > As what? > >But reverse-engineer some major "narrative" poems -- why doesn't The Iliad >or The Pardoner's Tale work as well in prose, even in translation? > > When did narrative in poetry end? > >Berryman's Sonnets has the same *implied narrative structure (it rips it >off) as Shakespeare's Sonnets, and Lowell's +Life Studies+ has a strong >explicit narrative. > > So we have powerful narrative in USAmerican poetry at least as late >as the sixties. > >But for the real brandy of the damned when it comes to narrative poetry, >consider any of D.M.Black's poetry from the Red/Black Judge poems of the >Sixties up to Melusine in the Eighties. > > Things poetry can do that prose can't. > >Robin Hamilon > > >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > From grahamd Tue Sep 23 11:58:51 2008 From: grahamd (David Graham) Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2008 10:58:51 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] poetics is childish In-Reply-To: <166601723335803494490080894269530266210-Webmail2@me.com> Message-ID: On 9/23/08 10:50 AM, "Mike Snider" wrote: > I somewhat reluctantly go with David Graham -- =============== Story of my life. . . Still waiting for someone to go with me !!!!!enthusiastically!!!!!!! ==================================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/About%20Me.html Poetry Library: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ==================================================== From robin.hamilton2 Tue Sep 23 12:02:46 2008 From: robin.hamilton2 (Robin Hamilton) Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2008 17:02:46 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Dictionaires???? References: <821800413FE24E38AE0B5AD3CCD8D217@win.louisiana.edu> Message-ID: two vols. of The Random House Dictionary of American Slang as well as medical, sexual, and foreign dictionaries, but The American Heritage, is always within reach. Question 2 (and this would be of great benefit): What are the best dictionaries on the web, either free or otherwise? (Maybe this was a question years ago, but I cannot remember.) When it comes to Major Dictionaries, start with the OED. There's also the SLD (foe) and the Ann Arbour MED (also foe). Most of the major slang dictionaries (B.E., Grose, Hotton, Farmer) can be gotten by a combination of googlebooks and the InInternet Archives. LEME doesn't cost much, and deals happily with individual subcscriptions, but it's only of use if you're interested in pre-1700 material. My advice would be to buy a cheap copy of the latest edition of Partridge's Dicitionary of the Underworld. Bottom line is there isn't such a thing as a "good" dictionary. Robin Hamilton -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From robin.hamilton2 Tue Sep 23 12:06:31 2008 From: robin.hamilton2 (Robin Hamilton) Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2008 17:06:31 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: poetics is childish References: Message-ID: <08C91D4CA1A9411B99052D39FF5D34BD@CoreDuo> From: "David Graham" > Well, yes. And attentive observers might have noticed the existence of a > group calling themselves The Expansive Poets, Um, yes, David, how attentive would these observers have to have been? Robin From jeff.newberry Tue Sep 23 12:10:34 2008 From: jeff.newberry (Jeff Newberry) Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2008 12:10:34 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] poetics is childish In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <731bb17a0809230910o5aff4d94g95fd9dd99d856405@mail.gmail.com> Paging Dr. Grumman. Paging Bob Grumman . . . Jeff Newberry On Mon, Sep 22, 2008 at 5:18 PM, David Graham wrote: > Verse is written in lines, not paragraphs--that's about the only definition > I know of that holds water. > ==================================================== > David Graham > grahamd at ripon.edu > Home Page: > http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/About%20Me.html > > Poetry Library: > http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html > ==================================================== > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Blog: http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com Obama Myths: http://www.matthew25.org/paf/index.htm -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From skip Tue Sep 23 12:15:13 2008 From: skip (Skip Fox) Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2008 11:15:13 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Dictionaires???? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <55A62A85CEF24894A7AFF45AC78CE0BE@win.louisiana.edu> This is good, but I don't see The Random House Dictionary of American Slang, Webster's International Unabridged, Taber's Cyclopedic Medical Dictionary, or The Completre Dictionary of Sexology as well as some of the "wicked words" dictionaries or etymological ones. But, you're right, this is LOVELY!! (And since I have can get OED on-line through the univ. . . . hell, with a colostomy bag and this I'll may never have to leave home again, as they say.) Thanks. -----Original Message----- From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Halvard Johnson Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 2008 10:47 AM To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Dictionaires???? Throw 'em all away, Skip. Here's all you need (except for the OED, of course). http://www.onelook.com/ Hal McCain / Palin -- Just say thanks but no thanks. They're a bridge to nowhere. Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at earthlink.net halvard at gmail.com http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html On Sep 23, 2008, at 10:14 AM, Skip Fox wrote: I'm wondering what your desks (or chairs) have next to the computer (or book or pad or . . .) by way of dictionary? I have The American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language. Of course I have dozens of others in including an unabridged, The OED, and two vols. of The Random House Dictionary of American Slang as well as medical, sexual, and foreign dictionaries, but The American Heritage, is always within reach. Question 2 (and this would be of great benefit): What are the best dictionaries on the web, either free or otherwise? (Maybe this was a question years ago, but I cannot remember.) _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd Tue Sep 23 12:14:43 2008 From: grahamd (David Graham) Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2008 11:14:43 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: poetics is childish In-Reply-To: <08C91D4CA1A9411B99052D39FF5D34BD@CoreDuo> Message-ID: Well, in this as in most things poetic, an attentive observer needs simply to visit my online Poetry Library, where all is explained. http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html On the links page, for instance, you will find a link to the home of Expansive Poetry Online, which would be a good place to start investigating the phenomenon. http://www.expansivepoetryonline.com/ Many of the relevant poets are also linked on the Poets page, too; and some critical discussion can be found on the Essays page. See how simple this all is?. . . ====== On 9/23/08 11:06 AM, "Robin Hamilton" wrote: > From: "David Graham" > >> Well, yes. And attentive observers might have noticed the existence of a >> group calling themselves The Expansive Poets, > > Um, yes, David, how attentive would these observers have to have been? > > Robin > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry ==================================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/About%20Me.html Poetry Library: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ==================================================== From grahamd Tue Sep 23 12:24:32 2008 From: grahamd (David Graham) Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2008 11:24:32 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Dictionaires???? In-Reply-To: <55A62A85CEF24894A7AFF45AC78CE0BE@win.louisiana.edu> Message-ID: Pardon me for one more toot of the horn. My Poetry Library also contains a page called Craft Toolbox, which links to various dictionaries and other reference works online. Onelook is there, along with rhyming dictionaries, references on prosody & rhetoric, thesauruses, glossaries of poetic forms & terms, and more. Suggestions for additions always welcome! http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/Craft%20Toolbox.html And: has anyone mentioned the marvelous Brewer's Dictionary of Phrase & Fable? David Graham On 9/23/08 11:15 AM, "Skip Fox" wrote: > This is good, but I don?t see The Random House Dictionary of American Slang, > Webster?s International Unabridged, Taber?s Cyclopedic Medical Dictionary, or > The Completre Dictionary of Sexology as well as some of the ?wicked words? > dictionaries or etymological ones. > > But, you?re right, this is LOVELY!! (And since I have can get OED on-line > through the univ. . . . hell, with a colostomy bag and this I?ll may never > have to leave home again, as they say.) Thanks. > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From skip Tue Sep 23 13:01:43 2008 From: skip (Skip Fox) Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2008 12:01:43 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Dictionaires???? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <6D346292A628432EAE228E944A548B58@win.louisiana.edu> David, Great, another "Favorite." I too love Brewer and have a dozen mythological dictionaries (Graves is always interesting), a dictionary of nursery rhymes, several foreign dictionaries, a copy of Johnson's (I couldn't keep Bierce . . . too dark), a handlist of rhetorical terms, dictionary of euphemisms. Maybe if I get time next week I'll try to see if any of these have web access that you might not have and pass on. . . . . Halvard, does the American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language of Onelook have the Indo-European roots? I couldn't find. (Not all print versions have the Indo-European roots in the back. Ones needs to check.) -----Original Message----- From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of David Graham Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 2008 11:25 AM To: NewPoetry Subject: [New-Poetry] Dictionaires???? Pardon me for one more toot of the horn. My Poetry Library also contains a page called Craft Toolbox, which links to various dictionaries and other reference works online. Onelook is there, along with rhyming dictionaries, references on prosody & rhetoric, thesauruses, glossaries of poetic forms & terms, and more. Suggestions for additions always welcome! http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/Craft%20Toolbox.html And: has anyone mentioned the marvelous Brewer's Dictionary of Phrase & Fable? David Graham On 9/23/08 11:15 AM, "Skip Fox" wrote: This is good, but I don't see The Random House Dictionary of American Slang, Webster's International Unabridged, Taber's Cyclopedic Medical Dictionary, or The Completre Dictionary of Sexology as well as some of the "wicked words" dictionaries or etymological ones. But, you're right, this is LOVELY!! (And since I have can get OED on-line through the univ. . . . hell, with a colostomy bag and this I'll may never have to leave home again, as they say.) Thanks. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard Tue Sep 23 13:12:20 2008 From: halvard (Halvard Johnson) Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2008 12:12:20 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Dictionaires???? In-Reply-To: <6D346292A628432EAE228E944A548B58@win.louisiana.edu> References: <6D346292A628432EAE228E944A548B58@win.louisiana.edu> Message-ID: <9ED315D6-6E29-4A22-93B6-5B15200F4E3E@earthlink.net> Skip, Here's one, por ejemplo. http://www.bartleby.com/61/roots/IE205.html Hal McCain / Palin -- Just say thanks but no thanks. They're a bridge to nowhere. Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at earthlink.net halvard at gmail.com http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html On Sep 23, 2008, at 12:01 PM, Skip Fox wrote: > > Halvard, does the American Heritage Dictionary of the English > Language of Onelook have the Indo-European roots? I couldn?t find. > > (Not all print versions have the Indo-European roots in the back. > Ones needs to check.) > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard Tue Sep 23 13:16:09 2008 From: halvard (Halvard Johnson) Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2008 12:16:09 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Dictionaires???? In-Reply-To: <55A62A85CEF24894A7AFF45AC78CE0BE@win.louisiana.edu> References: <55A62A85CEF24894A7AFF45AC78CE0BE@win.louisiana.edu> Message-ID: <35612A98-2F9D-4967-8C6F-38CD444E03B8@earthlink.net> Skip, Here's another page that might be of interest: http://www.bartleby.com/cgi-bin/texis/webinator/sitesearch?FILTER=col61&query=Indo-European+Roots&x=0&y=0 Hal McCain / Palin -- Just say thanks but no thanks. They're a bridge to nowhere. Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at earthlink.net halvard at gmail.com http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html On Sep 23, 2008, at 11:15 AM, Skip Fox wrote: > This is good, but I don?t see The Random House Dictionary of > American Slang, Webster?s International Unabridged, Taber?s > Cyclopedic Medical Dictionary, or The Completre Dictionary of > Sexology as well as some of the ?wicked words? dictionaries or > etymological ones. > > But, you?re right, this is LOVELY!! (And since I have can get OED on- > line through the univ. . . . hell, with a colostomy bag and this > I?ll may never have to leave home again, as they say.) Thanks. > > -----Original Message----- > From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu > ] On Behalf Of Halvard Johnson > Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 2008 10:47 AM > To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Dictionaires???? > > Throw 'em all away, Skip. Here's all you need > (except for the OED, of course). > > http://www.onelook.com/ > > Hal > > McCain / Palin -- Just say thanks but no thanks. > They're a bridge to nowhere. > > Halvard Johnson > ================ > halvard at earthlink.net > halvard at gmail.com > http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > http://www.hamiltonstone.org > http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html > > > > On Sep 23, 2008, at 10:14 AM, Skip Fox wrote: > > > I?m wondering what your desks (or chairs) have next to the computer > (or book or pad or . . .) by way of dictionary? > > I have The American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language. > > Of course I have dozens of others in including an unabridged, The > OED, and two vols. of The Random House Dictionary of American Slang > as well as medical, sexual, and foreign dictionaries, but The > American Heritage, is always within reach. > > Question 2 (and this would be of great benefit): What are the best > dictionaries on the web, either free or otherwise? > > (Maybe this was a question years ago, but I cannot remember.) > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard Tue Sep 23 13:19:51 2008 From: halvard (Halvard Johnson) Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2008 12:19:51 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Dictionaires???? In-Reply-To: <55A62A85CEF24894A7AFF45AC78CE0BE@win.louisiana.edu> References: <55A62A85CEF24894A7AFF45AC78CE0BE@win.louisiana.edu> Message-ID: <80D69F18-20A5-440B-B654-CA1A05913CCE@earthlink.net> Also, here's what onelook offers up when one searchs for "slang" in titles and descriptions: http://www.onelook.com/?v=&loc=dkwsrch&d=all_&sort=&langdf=slang Hal McCain / Palin -- Just say thanks but no thanks. They're a bridge to nowhere. Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at earthlink.net halvard at gmail.com http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html On Sep 23, 2008, at 11:15 AM, Skip Fox wrote: > This is good, but I don?t see The Random House Dictionary of > American Slang, Webster?s International Unabridged, Taber?s > Cyclopedic Medical Dictionary, or The Completre Dictionary of > Sexology as well as some of the ?wicked words? dictionaries or > etymological ones. > > But, you?re right, this is LOVELY!! (And since I have can get OED on- > line through the univ. . . . hell, with a colostomy bag and this > I?ll may never have to leave home again, as they say.) Thanks. > > -----Original Message----- > From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu > ] On Behalf Of Halvard Johnson > Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 2008 10:47 AM > To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Dictionaires???? > > Throw 'em all away, Skip. Here's all you need > (except for the OED, of course). > > http://www.onelook.com/ > > Hal > > McCain / Palin -- Just say thanks but no thanks. > They're a bridge to nowhere. > > Halvard Johnson > ================ > halvard at earthlink.net > halvard at gmail.com > http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > http://www.hamiltonstone.org > http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html > > > > On Sep 23, 2008, at 10:14 AM, Skip Fox wrote: > > > I?m wondering what your desks (or chairs) have next to the computer > (or book or pad or . . .) by way of dictionary? > > I have The American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language. > > Of course I have dozens of others in including an unabridged, The > OED, and two vols. of The Random House Dictionary of American Slang > as well as medical, sexual, and foreign dictionaries, but The > American Heritage, is always within reach. > > Question 2 (and this would be of great benefit): What are the best > dictionaries on the web, either free or otherwise? > > (Maybe this was a question years ago, but I cannot remember.) > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames Tue Sep 23 13:22:33 2008 From: jforjames (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2008 13:22:33 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: poetics is childish In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8CAEBB819C5D331-FC8-E55@webmail-dd02.sysops.aol.com> Poe in 19thC and Edmund Wilson in 20th foretold the end of the?long narrative poem. Of course many continued to try their hand, despite reports of the genre's demise. Robinson Jeffers was certainly one who did so with some success. The decline of rhymed?& metrical verse coinciding with long narrative poem's fall from favor, may be in some way?related. What was the last long narrartive poem that really captured significant readership or garned wide critical acclaim??(By poetry's modest standards, not by the standards of novel). The short?narrative poem I think is doing quite well. The 'Expansive Poets' have a claim to reinvigorating narrative poetry in last decade or so. Or trying to at least. And of course they tend to like theirs rimed &/or metered. The sub-genre, the dramtic monologue seems to be getting some renewed interest. I remember that before he got sick, Reginald Shepherd was teaching some workshops?on dramatic monolog. Beecause the d.m. often tells the story of its speaker, it's a?narrative form as well, or can be. Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: Robin Hamilton Sent: Tue, 23 Sep 2008 11:10 am Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Re: poetics is childish Narrative ...? ? ? Sideways on this ...? ? The middle nineteenth century in England skewered both narrative poetry and long/extended poetry.? ? In the UK, this manifested itself in Pawselgrave's +Golden Treasury+, and in the US in Poe's commentary on The Raven.? ? In the 1820s, *well into the Rise of the Novel, Byron was selling (and having read) as many copies of Don Juan as Scott was selling his Waverlies.? ? I'd agree with Roger that there are severe problematics in the use of narrative in poetry, but I doubt it's as simple as The Rise of the Novel. (Or Reality TV.)? ? ? Browning's +The Ring and the Book+ wasn't so much a magnificent failure ...? ? ? As what?? ? But reverse-engineer some major "narrative" poems -- why doesn't The Iliad or The Pardoner's Tale work as well in prose, even in translation?? ? ? When did narrative in poetry end?? ? Berryman's Sonnets has the same *implied narrative structure (it rips it off) as Shakespeare's Sonnets, and Lowell's +Life Studies+ has a strong explicit narrative.? ? ? So we have powerful narrative in USAmerican poetry at least as late as the sixties.? ? But for the real brandy of the damned when it comes to narrative poetry, consider any of D.M.Black's poetry from the Red/Black Judge poems of the Sixties up to Melusine in the Eighties.? ? ? Things poetry can do that prose can't.? ? Robin Hamilon? ? _______________________________________________? New-Poetry mailing list? New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu? http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From skip Tue Sep 23 13:30:34 2008 From: skip (Skip Fox) Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2008 12:30:34 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Dictionaires???? In-Reply-To: <9ED315D6-6E29-4A22-93B6-5B15200F4E3E@earthlink.net> Message-ID: My fault. Not good with the web. (There used to be a time when I was one of the best for finding anything in print. Did a 500 page bibliography on secondary works in 13 languages on Creeley, Dorn, and Duncan-much of which was published in unindexed little mags. . . . But today, I can't think of how to even consider what might be the right click to hit, etc.) Geez. -----Original Message----- From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Halvard Johnson Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 2008 12:12 PM To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Dictionaires???? Skip, Here's one, por ejemplo. http://www.bartleby.com/61/roots/IE205.html Hal McCain / Palin -- Just say thanks but no thanks. They're a bridge to nowhere. Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at earthlink.net halvard at gmail.com http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html On Sep 23, 2008, at 12:01 PM, Skip Fox wrote: Halvard, does the American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language of Onelook have the Indo-European roots? I couldn't find. (Not all print versions have the Indo-European roots in the back. Ones needs to check.) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames Tue Sep 23 13:38:57 2008 From: jforjames (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2008 13:38:57 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: poetics is childish In-Reply-To: <8CAEBB819C5D331-FC8-E55@webmail-dd02.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CAEBB819C5D331-FC8-E55@webmail-dd02.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <8CAEBBA63D4F0D5-FC8-FA2@webmail-dd02.sysops.aol.com> I may not be endorsing you David, but it appears I'm repeating you...this is what happens when you start an email at 10 in the morning, and get around to finishing it about 1pm. But I wouldn't consider the "Expansive"?movement a sweeping success. It was an outgrowth of New Formalism of the 1980s for the most part. The Reaper essays. Gioia's call to arm in Can Poetry Matter?, etc., played a part in its founding. It made little dent in great MFA world, and almost none (for obvious reasons) among those who considered themselves avant-this or post-avant-that. Finnegan The 'Expansive Poets' have a claim to reinvigorating narrative poetry in last decade or so. Or trying to at least. And of course they tend to like theirs rimed &/or metered. -----Original Message----- From: jforjames at aol.com To: robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com; new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Tue, 23 Sep 2008 1:22 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Re: poetics is childish Poe in 19thC and Edmund Wilson in 20th foretold the end of the?long narrative poem. Of course many continued to try their hand, despite reports of the genre's demise. Robinson Jeffers was certainly one who did so with some success. The decline of rhymed?& metrical verse coinciding with long narrative poem's fall from favor, may be in some way?related. What was the last long narrartive poem that really captured significant readership or garned wide critical acclaim??(By poetry's modest standards, not by the standards of novel). The short?narrative poem I think is doing quite well. The 'Expansive Poets' have a claim to reinvigorating narrative poetry in last decade or so. Or trying to at least. And of course they tend to like theirs rimed &/or metered. The sub-genre, the dramtic monologue seems to be getting some renewed interest. I remember that before he got sick, Reginald Shepherd was teaching some workshops?on dramatic monolog. Beecause the d.m. often tells the story of its speaker, it's a?narrative form as well, or can be. Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: Robin Hamilton Sent: Tue, 23 Sep 2008 11:10 am Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Re: poetics is childish Narrative ...? ? ? Sideways on this ...? ? The middle nineteenth century in England skewered both narrative poetry and long/extended poetry.? ? In the UK, this manifested itself in Pawselgrave's +Golden Treasury+, and in the US in Poe's commentary on The Raven.? ? In the 1820s, *well into the Rise of the Novel, Byron was selling (and having read) as many copies of Don Juan as Scott was selling his Waverlies.? ? I'd agree with Roger that there are severe problematics in the use of narrative in poetry, but I doubt it's as simple as The Rise of the Novel. (Or Reality TV.)? ? ? Browning's +The Ring and the Book+ wasn't so much a magnificent failure ...? ? ? As what?? ? But reverse-engineer some major "narrative" poems -- why doesn't The Iliad or The Pardoner's Tale work as well in prose, even in translation?? ? ? When did narrative in poetry end?? ? Berryman's Sonnets has the same *implied narrative structure (it rips it off) as Shakespeare's Sonnets, and Lowell's +Life Studies+ has a strong explicit narrative.? ? ? So we have powerful narrative in USAmerican poetry at least as late as the sixties.? ? But for the real brandy of the damned when it comes to narrative poetry, consider any of D.M.Black's poetry from the Red/Black Judge poems of the Sixties up to Melusine in the Eighties.? ? ? Things poetry can do that prose can't.? ? Robin Hamilon? ? _______________________________________________? New-Poetry mailing list? New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu? http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry? Find phone numbers fast with the New AOL Yellow Pages! _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mandolin Tue Sep 23 13:57:04 2008 From: mandolin (Mike Snider) Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2008 13:57:04 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: poetics is childish In-Reply-To: <8CAEBB819C5D331-FC8-E55@webmail-dd02.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CAEBB819C5D331-FC8-E55@webmail-dd02.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <168543036849165609779166647506612739087-Webmail2@me.com> On Tuesday, September 23, 2008, at 01:22PM, wrote: >What was the last long narrartive poem that really captured significant readership or garned wide critical acclaim??(By poetry's >modest standards, not by the standards of novel). >Finnegan > Seth's 1986 Golden Gate managed to match the standards of the prose novel, both in sales and critical standards. Here, from the wikipedia article on Seth: ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vikram_Seth) "The likelihood of commercial success seemed highly doubtful ? and the scepticism [sic] of friends as to the novel's viability is facetiously quoted within the novel; but the verse novel received wide acclaim (Gore Vidal dubbed it "The Great California Novel") and achieved healthy sales." It wasn't in the top 10 for the year, but it's regularly described as "best-selling," it's never been out of print, and there's an opera (http://www.operaprojects.org/goldengate.htm). ----- Sent from webmail, so I'm not at my computer. http://www.mikesnider.org/formalblog for the Sonnetarium From jforjames Tue Sep 23 14:08:31 2008 From: jforjames (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2008 14:08:31 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Dictionaires???? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <8CAEBBE854296BE-FC8-1258@webmail-dd02.sysops.aol.com> http://www.howjsay.com/ I find a prouncing dictionary useful...for those word I've only read, particularly certain proper nouns and words, words borrowed from foreign languages. This one was edited by a friend, and got a good deal on it... http://search.barnesandnoble.com/Pronouncing-Dictionary-of-Proper-Names/John-K-Bollard/e/9780780800984 May be?I wouldn't need one if?I'd?hang with more vocabularians. Finnegan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini Tue Sep 23 14:29:19 2008 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2008 20:29:19 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] New Social Recovery Plan Message-ID: <4b65c2d70809231129j3839fa12oe041265924480b62@mail.gmail.com> I was wondering_ and I am directing this wondering of mine to You Poets I am referring to the following video: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/22886841#22886841 [Treasury Secretary Henry M. Paulson Jr., Fed Chairman Ben S. Bernanke and S.E.C. Commissioner Christopher Cox at the hearing, link taken from the New York Times] at a certain point the Senator asks: Is this the only solution? Before suggesting this possibility you undoubtedly had other perspectives, could you please let us know what they were? Here is my question. *Isn't poetry able to suggest a new social structure?* A structure able to solve problems like the repeated but unprecedented crisis that is sweeping our investments away. My proposal is therefore to draft a Social Recovery Plan and to forward it to Whom it may concern. My best wishes, Anny -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames Tue Sep 23 14:40:10 2008 From: jforjames (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2008 14:40:10 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Dictionaires???? In-Reply-To: <8CAEBBE854296BE-FC8-1258@webmail-dd02.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <8CAEBC2F14F1BAE-FC8-1503@webmail-dd02.sysops.aol.com> At the risk of old-fogeyism, I want to mourn the declining use of the print dictionary (or encyclopedia, for that matter). Nine times out of ten, flipping thru pages, trying to find?the particular?word/entry I was looking for (and sometimes the alphabetic sequence would escape me), I'd stumble across a?strange or unusual word?(a new world, one might say).? You lose some of that randomness, the sidetracking that goes on, with the?online versions.? Finnegan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini Tue Sep 23 14:52:26 2008 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2008 20:52:26 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Dictionaires???? In-Reply-To: <8CAEBC2F14F1BAE-FC8-1503@webmail-dd02.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CAEBBE854296BE-FC8-1258@webmail-dd02.sysops.aol.com> <8CAEBC2F14F1BAE-FC8-1503@webmail-dd02.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <4b65c2d70809231152q1f331775m7257d456081ed3@mail.gmail.com> This unluckily happens to me also with the net. If I am not pressed by a lot of things to do, I just loose track and get lost anywhere up here. On Tue, Sep 23, 2008 at 8:40 PM, wrote: > At the risk of old-fogeyism, I want to mourn the declining use of the print > dictionary (or encyclopedia, for that matter). > Nine times out of ten, flipping thru pages, trying to find the > particular word/entry I was looking for (and sometimes the > alphabetic sequence would escape me), I'd stumble across a strange or > unusual word (a new world, one might say). > You lose some of that randomness, the sidetracking that goes on, with > the online versions. > Finnegan > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cervantes.james Tue Sep 23 15:51:47 2008 From: cervantes.james (James Cervantes) Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2008 12:51:47 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Dictionaires???? In-Reply-To: <8CAEBC2F14F1BAE-FC8-1503@webmail-dd02.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CAEBBE854296BE-FC8-1258@webmail-dd02.sysops.aol.com> <8CAEBC2F14F1BAE-FC8-1503@webmail-dd02.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <648208b60809231251j420ad172rffd1a8a189b4200b@mail.gmail.com> On Tue, Sep 23, 2008 at 11:40 AM, wrote: > At the risk of old-fogeyism, I want to mourn the declining use of the print > dictionary (or encyclopedia, for that matter). > Nine times out of ten, flipping thru pages, trying to find the > particular word/entry I was looking for (and sometimes the > alphabetic sequence would escape me), I'd stumble across a strange or > unusual word (a new world, one might say). > You lose some of that randomness, the sidetracking that goes on, with > the online versions. > Well,this site does that one better: http://www.fourteenminutes.com/fun/words/ -- Jim ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning http://www.fieralingue.it/documenti/mr_bondo.pdf http://www.poetserv.org/jvc/home/index.html http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamescervantes/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames Tue Sep 23 16:25:31 2008 From: jforjames (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2008 16:25:31 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Dictionaires???? In-Reply-To: <648208b60809231251j420ad172rffd1a8a189b4200b@mail.gmail.com> References: <8CAEBBE854296BE-FC8-1258@webmail-dd02.sysops.aol.com><8CAEBC2F14F1BAE-FC8-1503@webmail-dd02.sysops.aol.com> <648208b60809231251j420ad172rffd1a8a189b4200b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <8CAEBD1A92ECDB6-52C-FEF@webmail-md13.sysops.aol.com> Not better. I'd say 'different'. Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: James Cervantes Sent: Tue, 23 Sep 2008 3:51 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Dictionaires???? On Tue, Sep 23, 2008 at 11:40 AM, wrote: At the risk of old-fogeyism, I want to mourn the declining use of the print dictionary (or encyclopedia, for that matter). Nine times out of ten, flipping thru pages, trying to find?the particular?word/entry I was looking for (and sometimes the alphabetic sequence would escape me), I'd stumble across a?strange or unusual word?(a new world, one might say).? You lose some of that randomness, the sidetracking that goes on, with the?online versions.? Well,this site does that one better: http://www.fourteenminutes.com/fun/words/? -- Jim ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning http://www.fieralingue.it/documenti/mr_bondo.pdf http://www.poetserv.org/jvc/home/index.html http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamescervantes/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From skip Tue Sep 23 16:28:31 2008 From: skip (Skip Fox) Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2008 15:28:31 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Dictionaires???? In-Reply-To: <648208b60809231251j420ad172rffd1a8a189b4200b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <9EF9F147CE8448C4AB967463EB2AE9F1@win.louisiana.edu> Halvard, Onelook worries me a bit. I looked up "reticulation" which is in my American Heritage hardbound, but not in the on-line version unless you look up "reticulate." One might be aware that only the main form can be found on a search and that there is not a definition under the noun or adverb form built from the verb. This might be easy for "reticulate," but one might not think to go to the main word for some others. Like Finnegan, I'm far more comfortable with books. But I'll use onelook frequently. Thanks. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cervantes.james Tue Sep 23 17:45:58 2008 From: cervantes.james (James Cervantes) Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2008 14:45:58 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Dictionaires???? In-Reply-To: <8CAEBD1A92ECDB6-52C-FEF@webmail-md13.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CAEBBE854296BE-FC8-1258@webmail-dd02.sysops.aol.com> <8CAEBC2F14F1BAE-FC8-1503@webmail-dd02.sysops.aol.com> <648208b60809231251j420ad172rffd1a8a189b4200b@mail.gmail.com> <8CAEBD1A92ECDB6-52C-FEF@webmail-md13.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <648208b60809231445i48f2a7bey628a5b492a6f7b51@mail.gmail.com> Meant to write: goes one better, in that not only does one come across words at random, but the words themselves are randomly generated. No qualitative distinction meant. -Jim On Tue, Sep 23, 2008 at 1:25 PM, wrote: > Not better. I'd say 'different'. > Finnegan > > -----Original Message----- > From: James Cervantes > Sent: Tue, 23 Sep 2008 3:51 pm > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Dictionaires???? > > > > On Tue, Sep 23, 2008 at 11:40 AM, wrote: > >> At the risk of old-fogeyism, I want to mourn the declining use of the >> print dictionary (or encyclopedia, for that matter). >> Nine times out of ten, flipping thru pages, trying to find the >> particular word/entry I was looking for (and sometimes the >> alphabetic sequence would escape me), I'd stumble across a strange or >> unusual word (a new world, one might say). >> You lose some of that randomness, the sidetracking that goes on, with >> the online versions. >> > > Well,this site does that one better: > > http://www.fourteenminutes.com/fun/words/ > > > -- Jim > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org > http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning > http://www.fieralingue.it/documenti/mr_bondo.pdf > http://www.poetserv.org/jvc/home/index.html > http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamescervantes/ > > ------------------------------ > Find phone numbers fast with the New AOL Yellow Pages > ! > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning http://www.fieralingue.it/documenti/mr_bondo.pdf http://www.poetserv.org/jvc/home/index.html http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamescervantes/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Opus40-01 Tue Sep 23 18:22:33 2008 From: Opus40-01 (TheOldMole) Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2008 18:22:33 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] poetics is childish In-Reply-To: <4b65c2d70809222246l2c1f79d2w7ebc209a6f59d096@mail.gmail.com> References: <314213.8540.qm@web54107.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <4b65c2d70809222246l2c1f79d2w7ebc209a6f59d096@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <48D96C29.6020203@opus40.org> Wonderful. And no verbs, hence no narrative. Anny Ballardini wrote: > > *Soricomorpha: Talpidae* > > > > /To the Old Mole/ > > / / > > mammals mammals mammals mammals mammals mammals mammals mammals > mammals mammals > > mammals mammals mammals mammals mammals mammals mammals mammals > mammals mammals > > mammals mammals mammals mammals mammals mammals mammals mammals > mammals mammals > > > > Asia, > > North America, > > Europe > > the majority of members_ MOLES > > cylindrical bodies, covered eyes > > underground > > living > > boars & sows > > in labor > > _semi- & aquatic_ > > invertebrate > > eaters > > mammals mammals mammals mammals mammals mammals mammals mammals > mammals mammals > > mammals mammals mammals mammals mammals mammals mammals mammals > mammals mammals > > mammals mammals mammals mammals mammals mammals mammals mammals > mammals mammals > > > > > > > > > > > On Tue, Sep 23, 2008 at 4:49 AM, John Jeffrey > wrote: > > I set down to write, as I said I would earlier, my attempt at > defining poetry's unique point--and I had big complicated > plans--but it fizzled. Here's how it went: I started out > fighting David Graham's simple definition that poetry's unique > point is lineation (see below). Then after trying to make light > of it, there it was, the truth of it, laid out likes lines of > molehills. > > And yet I still want something more romantic in there, some > mention of music, or brilliance, something about the curve of a > woman's calf. > > But no, lineation it is. Sigh. > > John J > > -------------------------------- > > I don't agree with the lineation theory. Or more precisely, I > don't agree that all there is. There has to be more! There just > HAS to be! (He cries, hands to head.) Otherwise, I could just > break out anything into lines and cobble a poem, like: > > > MOLE (animal) > by Wikipedia > > Moles are the majority of the members > of the mammal family Talpidae in the order > Soricomorpha. Although most moles burrow, > some species are aquatic > or semi-aquatic. > > Moles have cylindrical bodies covered > in fur, with small or covered eyes; > the ears are generally not visible. > They eat small invertebrate animals > living underground. > > Moles can be found in North America, > Europe and Asia. Male moles > are called boars; females are called sows. > A group of moles is called > a labor. > > Hmmm. Wait a minute. Maybe that changes my mind. Now I see that > you can't really separate defining what poetry is without also > defining (or trying to define) what good poetry is, because I've > actually read poetry worse than that "poem" above. But I've never > believed that they're not poems, just that they're bad poems. So > then, yes, maybe the only real way to distinguish it is the lines... > > Crap. He's right. > > > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: David Graham > > To: NewPoetry > > Sent: Monday, September 22, 2008 5:18:42 PM > Subject: [New-Poetry] poetics is childish > > Verse is written in lines, not paragraphs--that's about the only > definition > I know of that holds water. > > As soon as you attempt anything more--e.g. poetry "foregrounds" > language > itself more than prose does; poetry is more metaphoric; poetry is > lyrical > rather than narrative at base, etc.--you soon find so many exceptions > thronging that it's pointless to continue. > > So: poetry's "unique point" is lineation. Yes, I know there is > such a > thing as a prose poem. But I've never seen any definition of that > which did > not rapidly dissolve into mysticism. I like to call them things > "prosies," > but the term has not caught on, I notice. . . . > > > On 9/22/08 3:43 PM, "Roger Day" > wrote: > > > I agree with you. But I was also wondering what you might > describe as > > poetry's unique point compared with other genres? > > > ==================================================== > David Graham > grahamd at ripon.edu > Home Page: > http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/About%20Me.html > > Poetry Library: > http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html > ==================================================== > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > -- > Anny Ballardini > http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ > http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome > http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html > I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a > dancing star! > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ Don't forget to order your copy of FILM NOIR! http://stores.lulu.com/store.php?fAcctID=2712239 From Opus40-01 Tue Sep 23 18:49:15 2008 From: Opus40-01 (TheOldMole) Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2008 18:49:15 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: poetics is childish In-Reply-To: <168543036849165609779166647506612739087-Webmail2@me.com> References: <8CAEBB819C5D331-FC8-E55@webmail-dd02.sysops.aol.com> <168543036849165609779166647506612739087-Webmail2@me.com> Message-ID: <48D9726B.3080107@opus40.org> There's a limit to how much I can, or want to, add to this thread, because it's not a productive line of thinking for me. I'd rather write narrative poetry than defend it. Anyway, for those interested, my long narrative poem, /SItuations/, continues to be serialized on Anny's Fieralingue site -- http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=Content&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=67 I'll try to get the latest installment (Episode XX) up tonight. Mike Snider wrote: > > On Tuesday, September 23, 2008, at 01:22PM, wrote: > > >> What was the last long narrartive poem that really captured significant readership or garned wide critical acclaim??(By poetry's >> modest standards, not by the standards of novel). >> > > >> Finnegan >> >> > > Seth's 1986 Golden Gate managed to match the standards of the prose novel, both in sales and critical standards. Here, from the wikipedia article on Seth: ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vikram_Seth) > > "The likelihood of commercial success seemed highly doubtful ? and the scepticism [sic] of friends as to the novel's viability is facetiously quoted within the novel; but the verse novel received wide acclaim (Gore Vidal dubbed it "The Great California Novel") and achieved healthy sales." > > It wasn't in the top 10 for the year, but it's regularly described as "best-selling," it's never been out of print, and there's an opera (http://www.operaprojects.org/goldengate.htm). > > ----- > Sent from webmail, so I'm not at my computer. > http://www.mikesnider.org/formalblog for the Sonnetarium > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ Don't forget to order your copy of FILM NOIR! http://stores.lulu.com/store.php?fAcctID=2712239 From Opus40-01 Tue Sep 23 18:52:32 2008 From: Opus40-01 (TheOldMole) Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2008 18:52:32 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: Poem by one of our authors on Verse Daily In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <48D97330.6070204@opus40.org> Nothing like resentment to power a post through. David Graham wrote: > I just had a post bounced this morning. When I resent it, it seems to > have gone through. So, not yet a *persistent* problem, but. . . . > > > > > On 9/23/08 10:13 AM, "jforjames at aol.com" wrote: > > This email blockade that David Baratier is experiencing has me > flummoxed. We have periodic general outages, system problems, > etc., but is anyone else having a persistant problem with their > emails being bounced? > Jim Finnegan > > > ==================================================== > David Graham > grahamd at ripon.edu > Home Page: > http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/About%20Me.html > > Poetry Library: > http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html > ==================================================== > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ Don't forget to order your copy of FILM NOIR! http://stores.lulu.com/store.php?fAcctID=2712239 From ccooley Tue Sep 23 20:49:27 2008 From: ccooley (ccooley at overdomain.com) Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2008 17:49:27 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Re: Dictionaires???? Message-ID: <20080924004927.5645616EC3A@ws6-8.us4.outblaze.com> onelook: woowee-- my 2nd favorite resource on the web... thanks a google, Hal. still consider never meeting you in san miguel my 3rd greatest disappointment 2008 :( my chances of getting to the tri-state area are infraslim. Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2008 12:19:51 -0500 From: Halvard Johnson Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Dictionaires???? To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views" Also, here's what onelook offers up when one searchs for "slang" in titles and descriptions: http://www.onelook.com/?v=&loc=dkwsrch&d=all_&sort=&langdf=slang Hal McCain / Palin -- Just say thanks but no thanks. They're a bridge to nowhere. Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at earthlink.net halvard at gmail.com http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html On Sep 23, 2008, at 11:15 AM, Skip Fox wrote: > This is good, but I don?t see The Random House Dictionary of > American Slang, Webster?s International Unabridged, Taber?s > Cyclopedic Medical Dictionary, or The Completre Dictionary of > Sexology as well as some of the ?wicked words? dictionaries or > etymological ones. > > But, you?re right, this is LOVELY!! (And since I have can get OED > on- line through the univ. . . . hell, with a colostomy bag and > this I?ll may never have to leave home again, as they say.) > Thanks. > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ccooley Tue Sep 23 21:56:50 2008 From: ccooley (ccooley at overdomain.com) Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2008 18:56:50 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Il Miglior Fabbro Message-ID: <20080924015650.50DAA2D00DA@ws6-13.us4.outblaze.com> You may say I'm slow or have a long attention span or both or neither, it's all the same to me. I thought about Robin's comparison all through _The Brothers Karamazov_ (to Burning Man and home), hoping to reconcile the irreconcilable: who's il migglior: Tolstoy or Dostoyevsky. Now I can say for sure it's Chekhov. If only we had a Chekhov in our poetry! >Robin Hamilton robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com >Fri May 23 09:58:23 EDT 2008 >Robin H. wrote: >This is one of those Irreconcilable Differences ... >Dickinson is Dostoevsky to Whitman's Tolstoy. From GrahamD Tue Sep 23 22:45:44 2008 From: GrahamD (David Graham) Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2008 21:45:44 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Backwards poetry Message-ID: <66C76222-F946-4824-BBB4-B30A40AC5C7E@ripon.edu> For a classroom exercise, I'm looking for poems that reverse time. Not ones that focus on memories, but ones that actually describe time being reversed, like movies run backward, etc. Got any favorites? Thanking you in advance. . . . ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.mac.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Opus40-01 Tue Sep 23 23:48:58 2008 From: Opus40-01 (TheOldMole) Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2008 23:48:58 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Backwards poetry In-Reply-To: <66C76222-F946-4824-BBB4-B30A40AC5C7E@ripon.edu> References: <66C76222-F946-4824-BBB4-B30A40AC5C7E@ripon.edu> Message-ID: <48D9B8AA.50507@opus40.org> *Soon* Soon, all my stories will be told backwards. My ing?nue will find love in the first act. Deflowered in the second, by the third, she is writing entries in her journal: boys she identifies with cryptic nicknames. And I?ll learn too late administrators lie and deceive, yet use this knowledge for purposeful blackmail: I?ve slept with their wives, serially or in pairs, winning their trust with pears and figs. David Graham wrote: > For a classroom exercise, I'm looking for poems that reverse time. Not > ones that focus on memories, but ones that actually describe time > being reversed, like movies run backward, etc. > > Got any favorites? > > Thanking you in advance. . . . > > > > ======================================== > David Graham > grahamd at ripon.edu > > Home Page: > http://web.mac.com/drjazz > > Poetry Library: > http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html > ========================================== > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ Don't forget to order your copy of FILM NOIR! http://stores.lulu.com/store.php?fAcctID=2712239 From halvard Wed Sep 24 00:44:19 2008 From: halvard (Halvard Johnson) Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2008 23:44:19 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Dictionaires???? In-Reply-To: <8CAEBC2F14F1BAE-FC8-1503@webmail-dd02.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CAEBC2F14F1BAE-FC8-1503@webmail-dd02.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <5C3B806D-EDA0-485C-8F72-9E2071B3A081@earthlink.net> Finnegan, you're sounding like someone who's never gone web-surfing. Losing randomness? Losing sidetracking? No way. Hal McCain / Palin -- Just say thanks but no thanks. They're a bridge to nowhere. Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at earthlink.net halvard at gmail.com http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html On Sep 23, 2008, at 1:40 PM, JforJames at aol.com wrote: > At the risk of old-fogeyism, I want to mourn the declining use of > the print dictionary (or encyclopedia, for that matter). > Nine times out of ten, flipping thru pages, trying to find the > particular word/entry I was looking for (and sometimes the > alphabetic sequence would escape me), I'd stumble across a strange > or unusual word (a new world, one might say). > You lose some of that randomness, the sidetracking that goes on, > with the online versions. > Finnegan > Find phone numbers fast with the New AOL Yellow Pages! > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard Wed Sep 24 00:46:53 2008 From: halvard (Halvard Johnson) Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2008 23:46:53 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Re: Dictionaires???? In-Reply-To: <20080924004927.5645616EC3A@ws6-8.us4.outblaze.com> References: <20080924004927.5645616EC3A@ws6-8.us4.outblaze.com> Message-ID: <12259590-2CA1-4ED0-9B6D-BFC0829B690D@earthlink.net> My new tristate area is Guanajuato/Queretaro/San Luis Potosi. Hal McCain / Palin -- Just say thanks but no thanks. They're a bridge to nowhere. Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at earthlink.net halvard at gmail.com http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html On Sep 23, 2008, at 7:49 PM, ccooley at overdomain.com wrote: > onelook: woowee-- my 2nd favorite resource on the web... thanks a > google, Hal. > > still consider never meeting you in san miguel my 3rd greatest > disappointment 2008 :( my chances of getting to the tri-state area > are infraslim. > > > Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2008 12:19:51 -0500 > From: Halvard Johnson > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Dictionaires???? > To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views" > > Also, here's what onelook offers up when one searchs for > "slang" in titles and descriptions: > > http://www.onelook.com/?v=&loc=dkwsrch&d=all_&sort=&langdf=slang > > Hal > > McCain / Palin -- Just say thanks but no thanks. > They're a bridge to nowhere. > > Halvard Johnson > ================ > halvard at earthlink.net > halvard at gmail.com > http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > http://www.hamiltonstone.org > http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html > > > > On Sep 23, 2008, at 11:15 AM, Skip Fox wrote: > > > This is good, but I don?t see The Random House Dictionary of > > American Slang, Webster?s International Unabridged, Taber?s > > Cyclopedic Medical Dictionary, or The Completre Dictionary of > > Sexology as well as some of the ?wicked words? dictionaries or > > etymological ones. > > > > But, you?re right, this is LOVELY!! (And since I have can get OED > > on- line through the univ. . . . hell, with a colostomy bag and > > this I?ll may never have to leave home again, as they say.) > > Thanks. > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard Wed Sep 24 00:49:01 2008 From: halvard (Halvard Johnson) Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2008 23:49:01 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Backwards poetry In-Reply-To: <66C76222-F946-4824-BBB4-B30A40AC5C7E@ripon.edu> References: <66C76222-F946-4824-BBB4-B30A40AC5C7E@ripon.edu> Message-ID: <399180FC-81AE-4A06-98C8-3AA8319D60BC@earthlink.net> Remind if I forget, but tomorrow should I remember I'll hunt up my poem on the Kennedy assassination, which, in part, does just that. Hal McCain / Palin -- Just say thanks but no thanks. They're a bridge to nowhere. Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at earthlink.net halvard at gmail.com http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html On Sep 23, 2008, at 9:45 PM, David Graham wrote: > For a classroom exercise, I'm looking for poems that reverse time. > Not ones that focus on memories, but ones that actually describe > time being reversed, like movies run backward, etc. > > Got any favorites? > > Thanking you in advance. . . . > > > > ======================================== > David Graham > grahamd at ripon.edu > > Home Page: > http://web.mac.com/drjazz > > Poetry Library: > http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html > ========================================== > > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rog3r.day Wed Sep 24 04:47:27 2008 From: rog3r.day (Roger Day) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 09:47:27 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: poetics is childish In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I was thinking about Damien Hirst's opinion that all that is left to painting is the surface. Hirst's formulation - and there is plenty to argue about it - comes from the POV of a commercial artist, having to compete against other media, with the background of the competition of painting v photography across a 150 years. Painting was effectively dethroned by photography. Yes, people still painted, but now they had to paint with photography *in mind*. See Impressionism, see Degas. Even those who stuck with illusionistic art, had to find a new space (Ruskin's moralism for example), or become more than realist (the photo-realists). The photo-realists, or hyper-realists, still have their work related to photography. I regard poetry in the same light; once the novel had established itself, narrative in poetry for ever more, will be related or contrasted to the use of narrative in other genres. Yes, I realise that this is a slight change in my position. I did not mean this to be an attack on narrative in poetry; I have no axe to grind on whether you write narrative poetry or not. In my own practice, I like to use collage or accretion. For me, this is more satisfying. The poems where I've used narrative are for me the least successful, accept where I've used it as allegory. Evolving from this, bearing in mind that poetry has to compete with other genres these days, I took Hirst's lead and wondered what was unique to Poetry? What distinguishs poetry from the other art-forms out there? This is my question. Poetry for me is a unique compression of sound, semantics and graphic (text). Take away one of those legs and it begins to fail. Roger On 9/23/08, Chris Stroffolino wrote: > Don't know which question you mean off-hand Roger, > but if you're asking about the history of narrative poetry, > I do understand why many say that the rise of the novel as a separate genre > (to say nothing of other non-poetic narrative) definitely coincided with a > lessening of narrative poetry. > The other, somewhat overlapping issue, is the rise of "free" (or > non-rhyming) verse... > If poetry no longer rhymes for most, and there's short stories and even > short short stories, etc., > it's understandable why many find "narrative poetry" an endangered > species... > > On Sep 22, 2008, at 1:43 PM, Roger Day wrote: > > > > I agree with you. But I was also wondering what you might describe as > > poetry's unique point compared with other genres? > > > > Seeing as most of you are content to take pot-shots, rather than > > answer that question, here's Nick Laird's attempt at an answer: > > > > http://www.guardian.co.uk/culture/2008/sep/20/poetry > > > > Roger > > > > On Mon, Sep 22, 2008 at 6:50 PM, wrote: > > > > > In a message dated 9/22/2008 7:36:30 AM Eastern Daylight Time, > > > rog3r.day at gmail.com writes: > > > > > > I'm contesting the question > > > as to what genre narrative is best suited to. > > > > > > Photography made quite a few modes of painting redundant. Indeed, > > > Damien Hirst in praise of Gerhard Richter in the Guardian at the > > > weekend, said that all that is left to painting is it's surface. And > > > that's a lot of painting to fall by the wayside. > > > > > > To go on telling stories in poetry means something else once other > > > similar modes in other genres are up for comparison. In other words, > > > what is unique about poetry? To me, it's the use of parameters to > > > pattern words across the page, most usefully done as a collage. You > > > see, there are techniques other than narrative. > > > > > > Roger, I don't know think I'll take my notions of art criticism from > Damien > > > Hirst. > > > He certainly couldn't tell Richter anything about painting...surface, > > > texture, content, > > > concept, or otherwise. Saying that all that is left painting is surface, > is > > > as much saying > > > that the window to the universe is still there, waiting, open, blank, a > > > plane in space ready for > > > anything. > > > > > > There is a whole generation of photo-realists doing quite well in art > world, > > > 100+ years > > > after the advent of photography. And, of course, lot of photography is > > > completely abstract, > > > so the a mechanical means of image capture has become just another > medium. > > > > > > I don't think poetry is necessarily the best genre for narrative. It's > still > > > a very good > > > means for the 'telling scene', a view into or way of imaginatively > unfolding > > > a larger, > > > untold story. > > > Finnegan > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges? > Check > > > out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and calculators. > > > _______________________________________________ > > > New-Poetry mailing list > > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > My Stuff: http://www.badstep.net/ > > "I began to warm and chill > > to objects and their fields" > > Nick Cave & The Bad Seeds > > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- My Stuff: http://www.badstep.net/ "I began to warm and chill to objects and their fields" Nick Cave & The Bad Seeds From rog3r.day Wed Sep 24 06:17:07 2008 From: rog3r.day (Roger Day) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 11:17:07 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: poetics is childish In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Lst night as I was perusing my art books, I began to pull away from this reductionist view, to move towards a more connected view, the artwork as a beast that moves across all genres, and instantiates itself according to the context it finds itself in at the time. It could appear in several genres. Or none. On 9/24/08, Roger Day wrote: > Evolving from this, bearing in mind that poetry has to compete with > other genres these days, I took Hirst's lead and wondered what was > unique to Poetry? What distinguishs poetry from the other art-forms > out there? This is my question. > > Poetry for me is a unique compression of sound, semantics and graphic > (text). Take away one of those legs and it begins to fail. > > > Roger > > > On 9/23/08, Chris Stroffolino wrote: > > Don't know which question you mean off-hand Roger, > > but if you're asking about the history of narrative poetry, > > I do understand why many say that the rise of the novel as a separate genre > > (to say nothing of other non-poetic narrative) definitely coincided with a > > lessening of narrative poetry. > > The other, somewhat overlapping issue, is the rise of "free" (or > > non-rhyming) verse... > > If poetry no longer rhymes for most, and there's short stories and even > > short short stories, etc., > > it's understandable why many find "narrative poetry" an endangered > > species... > > > > On Sep 22, 2008, at 1:43 PM, Roger Day wrote: > > > > > > > I agree with you. But I was also wondering what you might describe as > > > poetry's unique point compared with other genres? > > > > > > Seeing as most of you are content to take pot-shots, rather than > > > answer that question, here's Nick Laird's attempt at an answer: > > > > > > http://www.guardian.co.uk/culture/2008/sep/20/poetry > > > > > > Roger > > > > > > On Mon, Sep 22, 2008 at 6:50 PM, wrote: > > > > > > > In a message dated 9/22/2008 7:36:30 AM Eastern Daylight Time, > > > > rog3r.day at gmail.com writes: > > > > > > > > I'm contesting the question > > > > as to what genre narrative is best suited to. > > > > > > > > Photography made quite a few modes of painting redundant. Indeed, > > > > Damien Hirst in praise of Gerhard Richter in the Guardian at the > > > > weekend, said that all that is left to painting is it's surface. And > > > > that's a lot of painting to fall by the wayside. > > > > > > > > To go on telling stories in poetry means something else once other > > > > similar modes in other genres are up for comparison. In other words, > > > > what is unique about poetry? To me, it's the use of parameters to > > > > pattern words across the page, most usefully done as a collage. You > > > > see, there are techniques other than narrative. > > > > > > > > Roger, I don't know think I'll take my notions of art criticism from > > Damien > > > > Hirst. > > > > He certainly couldn't tell Richter anything about painting...surface, > > > > texture, content, > > > > concept, or otherwise. Saying that all that is left painting is surface, > > is > > > > as much saying > > > > that the window to the universe is still there, waiting, open, blank, a > > > > plane in space ready for > > > > anything. > > > > > > > > There is a whole generation of photo-realists doing quite well in art > > world, > > > > 100+ years > > > > after the advent of photography. And, of course, lot of photography is > > > > completely abstract, > > > > so the a mechanical means of image capture has become just another > > medium. > > > > > > > > I don't think poetry is necessarily the best genre for narrative. It's > > still > > > > a very good > > > > means for the 'telling scene', a view into or way of imaginatively > > unfolding > > > > a larger, > > > > untold story. > > > > Finnegan > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > > Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges? > > Check > > > > out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and calculators. > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > New-Poetry mailing list > > > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > My Stuff: http://www.badstep.net/ > > > "I began to warm and chill > > > to objects and their fields" > > > Nick Cave & The Bad Seeds > > > _______________________________________________ > > > New-Poetry mailing list > > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > -- > My Stuff: http://www.badstep.net/ > "I began to warm and chill > to objects and their fields" > Nick Cave & The Bad Seeds > -- My Stuff: http://www.badstep.net/ "I began to warm and chill to objects and their fields" Nick Cave & The Bad Seeds From jeff.newberry Wed Sep 24 08:11:59 2008 From: jeff.newberry (Jeff Newberry) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 08:11:59 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Maginnes Daily Message-ID: <731bb17a0809240511n503152ddrff79fb48c9b6cf2b@mail.gmail.com> Today, Verse Daily features a fine poem by our very own Al Maginnes. See it here: http://www.versedaily.org/2008/mylives.shtml Congrats, Al. Best, Jeff Newberry -- Blog: http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com Obama Myths: http://www.matthew25.org/paf/index.htm -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From AlMaginnes Wed Sep 24 08:17:51 2008 From: AlMaginnes (AlMaginnes at aol.com) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 08:17:51 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Maginnes Daily Message-ID: Thanks, Jeff. It was a nice surprise this morning. **************Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and calculators. (http://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Rsgwynn1 Wed Sep 24 09:11:16 2008 From: Rsgwynn1 (Rsgwynn1 at cs.com) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 09:11:16 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Backwards poetry Message-ID: In a message dated 9/23/2008 9:46:06 PM Central Daylight Time, GrahamD at ripon.edu writes: > > For a classroom exercise, I'm looking for poems that reverse time. Not ones > that focus on memories, but ones that actually describe time being reversed, > like movies run backward, etc. > > Got any favorites? > > > Not a poem, but there's that great scene in Slaughterhouse Five where Billy watches a war documentary backwards. Also J. G. Ballard's story "Time of Passage." There's a poem by Robert Pack in the old Mark Strand anthology, but I can't find it now. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From david.weinstock Wed Sep 24 09:19:53 2008 From: david.weinstock (David Weinstock) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 09:19:53 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Backwards poetry In-Reply-To: <399180FC-81AE-4A06-98C8-3AA8319D60BC@earthlink.net> References: <66C76222-F946-4824-BBB4-B30A40AC5C7E@ripon.edu> <399180FC-81AE-4A06-98C8-3AA8319D60BC@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <437b1e3a0809240619h31d10546r64aeb21f14f2559f@mail.gmail.com> There's the old joke: what happens when you play a country music record backward? You get your wife back, you get your truck back, you get your job back, your get your dog back. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jbalizsprince Wed Sep 24 09:24:12 2008 From: jbalizsprince (Judy Prince) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 09:24:12 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Backwards poetry In-Reply-To: <437b1e3a0809240619h31d10546r64aeb21f14f2559f@mail.gmail.com> References: <66C76222-F946-4824-BBB4-B30A40AC5C7E@ripon.edu> <399180FC-81AE-4A06-98C8-3AA8319D60BC@earthlink.net> <437b1e3a0809240619h31d10546r64aeb21f14f2559f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7db1d01b0809240624t2ab2aedai8b7352a8f192d6e6@mail.gmail.com> or husband, as the case more often is... Judy 2008/9/24 David Weinstock > There's the old joke: what happens when you play a country music record > backward? > > You get your wife back, you get your truck back, you get your job back, > your get your dog back. > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Rsgwynn1 Wed Sep 24 09:28:45 2008 From: Rsgwynn1 (Rsgwynn1 at cs.com) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 09:28:45 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Backwards poetry Message-ID: In a message dated 9/24/2008 8:20:25 AM Central Daylight Time, david.weinstock at gmail.com writes: > > There's the old joke: what happens when you play a country music record > backward? > > You get your wife back, you get your truck back, you get your job back, your > get your dog back. > > Yeah, but you have to give your beer back too. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From berniegeyer Wed Sep 24 09:57:25 2008 From: berniegeyer (Bernadette Geyer) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 06:57:25 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Backwards poetry In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <837373.70433.qm@web50409.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Martin Amis' book Time's Arrow comes to mind, but no poems. Sorry. --- On Wed, 9/24/08, Rsgwynn1 at cs.com wrote: From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Backwards poetry To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Date: Wednesday, September 24, 2008, 9:11 AM In a message dated 9/23/2008 9:46:06 PM Central Daylight Time, GrahamD at ripon.edu writes: For a classroom exercise, I'm looking for poems that reverse time.? Not ones that focus on memories, but ones that actually describe time being reversed, like movies run backward, etc. Got any favorites? Not a poem, but there's that great scene in Slaughterhouse Five where Billy watches a war documentary backwards.? Also J. G. Ballard's story "Time of Passage."? There's a poem by Robert Pack in the old Mark Strand anthology, but I can't find it now. _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Opus40-01 Wed Sep 24 09:57:46 2008 From: Opus40-01 (TheOldMole) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 09:57:46 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Maginnes Daily In-Reply-To: <731bb17a0809240511n503152ddrff79fb48c9b6cf2b@mail.gmail.com> References: <731bb17a0809240511n503152ddrff79fb48c9b6cf2b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <48DA475A.3090403@opus40.org> I love this poem (narrative and all). Congrats, Al, not just on being recognized by Verse Daily, but on wonderful work. Jeff Newberry wrote: > Today, Verse Daily features a fine poem by our very own Al Maginnes. > > See it here: http://www.versedaily.org/2008/mylives.shtml > > Congrats, Al. > > Best, > Jeff Newberry > > -- > Blog: http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com > Obama Myths: http://www.matthew25.org/paf/index.htm > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ Don't forget to order your copy of FILM NOIR! http://stores.lulu.com/store.php?fAcctID=2712239 From jeff.newberry Wed Sep 24 10:07:13 2008 From: jeff.newberry (Jeff Newberry) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 10:07:13 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Backwards poetry In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <731bb17a0809240707s745cc61bj653a41636ef581a3@mail.gmail.com> You can have my beer when you pry it from my cold, dead hands! Jeff Newberry On Wed, Sep 24, 2008 at 9:28 AM, wrote: > > Yeah, but you have to give your beer back too. > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Blog: http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com Obama Myths: http://www.matthew25.org/paf/index.htm -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd Wed Sep 24 10:08:16 2008 From: grahamd (David Graham) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 09:08:16 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re:Maginnes Daily In-Reply-To: <48DA475A.3090403@opus40.org> References: <731bb17a0809240511n503152ddrff79fb48c9b6cf2b@mail.gmail.com> <48DA475A.3090403@opus40.org> Message-ID: <1B6E5E38-F386-4D8A-98B8-930FE2525A7A@ripon.edu> Amen. Nice one, Al. By the way, there's a link on the Verse Daily info page to your blog, which seems to be a dead one. Is it true you have a blog? URL? ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.mac.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== On Sep 24, 2008, at 8:57 AM, TheOldMole wrote: > I love this poem (narrative and all). Congrats, Al, not just on > being recognized by Verse Daily, but on wonderful work. > > Jeff Newberry wrote: >> Today, Verse Daily features a fine poem by our very own Al Maginnes. >> >> See it here: http://www.versedaily.org/2008/mylives.shtml >> >> Congrats, Al. >> Best, >> Jeff Newberry >> >> -- >> Blog: http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com >> Obama Myths: http://www.matthew25.org/paf/index.htm >> >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >> --- >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> > > -- > Tad Richards > http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ > http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ > > Don't forget to order your copy of FILM NOIR! > http://stores.lulu.com/store.php?fAcctID=2712239 > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From AlMaginnes Wed Sep 24 10:38:42 2008 From: AlMaginnes (AlMaginnes at aol.com) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 10:38:42 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Re:Maginnes Daily Message-ID: No blog here. I'm not sure what that link is. Between teaching, chasing a two year old, trying to write and whatever else comes up in the course of a day, I don't have time to blog. Or even check my spelling very often. **************Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and calculators. (http://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From AlMaginnes Wed Sep 24 10:40:38 2008 From: AlMaginnes (AlMaginnes at aol.com) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 10:40:38 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Backwards poetry Message-ID: There's a poem in Rodney Jones's second book that has some images of time running backwords. Can't remember the poem's title right now (or the title of his second book) but it's the first or second poem in the book. **************Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and calculators. (http://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard Wed Sep 24 10:45:08 2008 From: halvard (Halvard Johnson) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 09:45:08 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: poetics is childish In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Ah, the art work as shape-shifter. That's a concept I find intriguing. And when it comes to narrative nowadays, I get most of what I need from movies. Hal McCain / Palin -- Just say thanks but no thanks. They're a bridge to nowhere. Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at earthlink.net halvard at gmail.com http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html On Sep 24, 2008, at 5:17 AM, Roger Day wrote: > Lst night as I was perusing my art books, I began to pull away from > this reductionist view, to move towards a more connected view, the > artwork as a beast that moves across all genres, and instantiates > itself according to the context it finds itself in at the time. It > could appear in several genres. Or none. > > On 9/24/08, Roger Day wrote: >> Evolving from this, bearing in mind that poetry has to compete with >> other genres these days, I took Hirst's lead and wondered what was >> unique to Poetry? What distinguishs poetry from the other art-forms >> out there? This is my question. >> >> Poetry for me is a unique compression of sound, semantics and graphic >> (text). Take away one of those legs and it begins to fail. >> >> >> Roger >> >> >> On 9/23/08, Chris Stroffolino wrote: >>> Don't know which question you mean off-hand Roger, >>> but if you're asking about the history of narrative poetry, >>> I do understand why many say that the rise of the novel as a >>> separate genre >>> (to say nothing of other non-poetic narrative) definitely >>> coincided with a >>> lessening of narrative poetry. >>> The other, somewhat overlapping issue, is the rise of "free" (or >>> non-rhyming) verse... >>> If poetry no longer rhymes for most, and there's short stories and >>> even >>> short short stories, etc., >>> it's understandable why many find "narrative poetry" an endangered >>> species... >>> >>> On Sep 22, 2008, at 1:43 PM, Roger Day wrote: >>> >>> >>>> I agree with you. But I was also wondering what you might >>>> describe as >>>> poetry's unique point compared with other genres? >>>> >>>> Seeing as most of you are content to take pot-shots, rather than >>>> answer that question, here's Nick Laird's attempt at an answer: >>>> >>>> http://www.guardian.co.uk/culture/2008/sep/20/poetry >>>> >>>> Roger >>>> >>>> On Mon, Sep 22, 2008 at 6:50 PM, wrote: >>>> >>>>> In a message dated 9/22/2008 7:36:30 AM Eastern Daylight Time, >>>>> rog3r.day at gmail.com writes: >>>>> >>>>> I'm contesting the question >>>>> as to what genre narrative is best suited to. >>>>> >>>>> Photography made quite a few modes of painting redundant. Indeed, >>>>> Damien Hirst in praise of Gerhard Richter in the Guardian at the >>>>> weekend, said that all that is left to painting is it's surface. >>>>> And >>>>> that's a lot of painting to fall by the wayside. >>>>> >>>>> To go on telling stories in poetry means something else once other >>>>> similar modes in other genres are up for comparison. In other >>>>> words, >>>>> what is unique about poetry? To me, it's the use of parameters to >>>>> pattern words across the page, most usefully done as a collage. >>>>> You >>>>> see, there are techniques other than narrative. >>>>> >>>>> Roger, I don't know think I'll take my notions of art criticism >>>>> from >>> Damien >>>>> Hirst. >>>>> He certainly couldn't tell Richter anything about >>>>> painting...surface, >>>>> texture, content, >>>>> concept, or otherwise. Saying that all that is left painting is >>>>> surface, >>> is >>>>> as much saying >>>>> that the window to the universe is still there, waiting, open, >>>>> blank, a >>>>> plane in space ready for >>>>> anything. >>>>> >>>>> There is a whole generation of photo-realists doing quite well >>>>> in art >>> world, >>>>> 100+ years >>>>> after the advent of photography. And, of course, lot of >>>>> photography is >>>>> completely abstract, >>>>> so the a mechanical means of image capture has become just another >>> medium. >>>>> >>>>> I don't think poetry is necessarily the best genre for >>>>> narrative. It's >>> still >>>>> a very good >>>>> means for the 'telling scene', a view into or way of imaginatively >>> unfolding >>>>> a larger, >>>>> untold story. >>>>> Finnegan >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ________________________________ >>>>> Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial >>>>> challenges? >>> Check >>>>> out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and >>>>> calculators. >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> New-Poetry mailing list >>>>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>>>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> My Stuff: http://www.badstep.net/ >>>> "I began to warm and chill >>>> to objects and their fields" >>>> Nick Cave & The Bad Seeds >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> New-Poetry mailing list >>>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> New-Poetry mailing list >>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>> >> >> >> -- >> My Stuff: http://www.badstep.net/ >> "I began to warm and chill >> to objects and their fields" >> Nick Cave & The Bad Seeds >> > > > -- > My Stuff: http://www.badstep.net/ > "I began to warm and chill > to objects and their fields" > Nick Cave & The Bad Seeds > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From grahamd Wed Sep 24 10:50:31 2008 From: grahamd (David Graham) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 09:50:31 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: [Backwards poetry In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Thanks, I think that book's around here somewhere, whatever it's called by what's his name (mutter mutter mutter)--geez, I'm getting tired of this middle aged memory. . . . I can't remember things I want to, but lately I've woken up most mornings with a song running through my head. This a.m. it was Eddy Arnold doing "Cattle Call." Hal! You remember that backwards poem of yours yet? On 9/24/08 9:40 AM, "AlMaginnes at aol.com" wrote: > There's a poem in Rodney Jones's second book that has some images of time > running backwords. Can't remember the poem's title right now (or the title of > his second book) but it's the first or second poem in the book. > > ==================================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/About%20Me.html Poetry Library: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ==================================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From AlMaginnes Wed Sep 24 10:57:38 2008 From: AlMaginnes (AlMaginnes at aol.com) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 10:57:38 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: [Backwards poetry Message-ID: Most of my books are in storage right now. Got to get them home one day. **************Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and calculators. (http://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard Wed Sep 24 10:59:49 2008 From: halvard (Halvard Johnson) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 09:59:49 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Backwards poetry In-Reply-To: <399180FC-81AE-4A06-98C8-3AA8319D60BC@earthlink.net> References: <66C76222-F946-4824-BBB4-B30A40AC5C7E@ripon.edu> <399180FC-81AE-4A06-98C8-3AA8319D60BC@earthlink.net> Message-ID: Well, this one involves some backwardsness: THE GRASSY KNOLL In my dream I am standing behind a white picket fence on a grassy knoll drawing a bead on a president in an open car. I get off two quick shots, see a head explode in a haze of red and gray, see the woman turn to scramble after bits of brain and skull, see, over my shoulder heads turning toward me, toward where I am hidden, see uniformed men running toward me. But then all the pictures run backwards toward where the car comes around the corner straight towards me where I stand on the grassy knoll sighting along the barrel of my rifle, seeing the head again, the smiling face, the shock of hair, feeling the warm steel of the trigger, hearing the cheers of the crowd, the voice in my head shouting, ?Shoot!? --HJ fr. Guide to the Tokyo Subway McCain / Palin -- Just say thanks but no thanks. They're a bridge to nowhere. Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at earthlink.net halvard at gmail.com http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd Wed Sep 24 11:05:17 2008 From: grahamd (David Graham) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 10:05:17 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Backwards poetry In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Is this the one? Remembering Fire Almost as though the eggs run and leap back into their shells And the shells seal behind them, and the willows call back their driftwood, And the oceans move predictably into deltas, into the hidden oubliettes in the sides of mountains, And all the emptied bottles are filled, and, flake by flake, the snow rises out of the coal piles, And the mothers cry out terribly as the children enter their bodies And the freeway to Birmingham is peeled off the scar tissue of fields, The way it occurs to me, the last thing first, never as in life, The unexpected rush, but this time I stand on the cold hill and watch Fire ripen from the seedbed of ashes, from the maze of tortured glass, Molten nails and hinges, the flames lift each plank into place And the walls resume their high standing, the many walls, and the rafters Float upward, the ceiling and roof, smoke ribbons into the wet cushions And my father hurries back through the front door with the box Of important papers, carrying as much as he can save, All of his deeds and policies, the clock, the few pieces of silver; He places me in the shape of my own body in the feather mattress And I go down into the soft wings, the mute and impalpable country Of sheep holding all of this back, drifting toward the unborn. --Rodney Jones. The Unborn, Atlantic Monthly Press, 1985. On 9/24/08 9:57 AM, "AlMaginnes at aol.com" wrote: > Most of my books are in storage right now. Got to get them home one day. > > > > > > > Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges? Check out > WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and calculators > //www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001> . > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry ==================================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/About%20Me.html Poetry Library: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ==================================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From AlMaginnes Wed Sep 24 11:18:38 2008 From: AlMaginnes (AlMaginnes at aol.com) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 11:18:38 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Backwards poetry Message-ID: That's it. Good work. **************Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and calculators. (http://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd Wed Sep 24 11:22:29 2008 From: grahamd (David Graham) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 10:22:29 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Backwards poetry In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Oh, we all get involved in backwardness sometimes, Hal! Thanks, everyone, for the backwards suggestions. Marvelous stuff, Tad & Hal. Also Rodney. . . . If anyone can think of any more such poems, I'm all ears. It's strange, when I cooked up this exercise I assumed I'd be able to think of dozens of contemporary poems that pull this little trick. Couldn't. Here's one of mine, though, an old one. Maharg Divad Boys Backward And Forward "You take the language, I'll keep the fur" --from a dream Let's roll this whole movie backwards and see swimmers sucked along feet first by their thrashing wakes, silly grins vanishing under inverted splashes, then feet and legs arcing up softly to the quivering board where they'll bounce a bit, then retreat, retreat. Where do they go, those glistening selves tanned and dripping with their yawning summers? Why are they climbing into cutoffs and T-shirts with such eager faces? Why would they scatter backwards down the driveway on wobbly bikes? Already the June leafage is draining away into paler shades of May and April. The last freak snowfall mushrooms over brown grass before fluttering upward. Soon we will reappear clumsy-legged among snowbanks, catching snowballs and disassembling them carefully back to our feet. We'll be just faces now, peering out from the hoods of our fur-lined parkas, and everyone will be busy swallowing cloud after cloud of indigestible words. --David Graham. Stutter Monk. Flume Press, 1986. On 9/24/08 9:59 AM, "Halvard Johnson" wrote: > Well, this one involves some backwardsness: > > THE GRASSY KNOLL > > > --HJ > > fr. Guide to the Tokyo Subway > > ==================================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/About%20Me.html Poetry Library: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ==================================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jjeffreymail Wed Sep 24 11:44:42 2008 From: jjeffreymail (John Jeffrey) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 08:44:42 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Backwards poetry Message-ID: <924113.37453.qm@web54105.mail.re2.yahoo.com> The Robert Pack poem you're thinking of is "The Boat" ("I dressed my father in his little clothes"). Pack's got another called, too, called "Snow Rise" ("Dreaming time has reversed, I watch drowned snow/Appear to lift up from the lake"). For movies, there's Memento, where the scenes are shown in reverse order. John J ----- Original Message ---- From: "Rsgwynn1 at cs.com" To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 9:11:16 AM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Backwards poetry In a message dated 9/23/2008 9:46:06 PM Central Daylight Time, GrahamD at ripon.edu writes: For a classroom exercise, I'm looking for poems that reverse time. Not ones that focus on memories, but ones that actually describe time being reversed, like movies run backward, etc. Got any favorites? Not a poem, but there's that great scene in Slaughterhouse Five where Billy watches a war documentary backwards. Also J. G. Ballard's story "Time of Passage." There's a poem by Robert Pack in the old Mark Strand anthology, but I can't find it now. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cstroffo Wed Sep 24 11:56:09 2008 From: cstroffo (Chris Stroffolino) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 08:56:09 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Backwards poetry In-Reply-To: <66C76222-F946-4824-BBB4-B30A40AC5C7E@ripon.edu> References: <66C76222-F946-4824-BBB4-B30A40AC5C7E@ripon.edu> Message-ID: <15390984-A810-4F38-A78A-5D80B728A592@earthlink.net> I remember there was a Creeley poem called "the movie run backward..." or emily dickinson reads poetry backwards... anything like the movie memento? On Sep 23, 2008, at 7:45 PM, David Graham wrote: > For a classroom exercise, I'm looking for poems that reverse time. > Not ones that focus on memories, but ones that actually describe > time being reversed, like movies run backward, etc. > > Got any favorites? > > Thanking you in advance. . . . > > > > ======================================== > David Graham > grahamd at ripon.edu > > Home Page: > http://web.mac.com/drjazz > > Poetry Library: > http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html > ========================================== > > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Opus40-01 Wed Sep 24 11:59:00 2008 From: Opus40-01 (TheOldMole) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 11:59:00 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Backwards poetry In-Reply-To: <924113.37453.qm@web54105.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <924113.37453.qm@web54105.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <48DA63C4.5070604@opus40.org> What about Mark Strand's "Where are the Waters of Childhood?" John Jeffrey wrote: > The Robert Pack poem you're thinking of is "The Boat" ("I dressed my > father in his little clothes"). Pack's got another called, too, > called "Snow Rise" ("Dreaming time has reversed, I watch drowned > snow/Appear to lift up from the lake"). > > For movies, there's Memento, where the scenes are shown in reverse order. > > John J > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: "Rsgwynn1 at cs.com" > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 9:11:16 AM > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Backwards poetry > > In a message dated 9/23/2008 9:46:06 PM Central Daylight Time, > GrahamD at ripon.edu writes: >> >> For a classroom exercise, I'm looking for poems that reverse time. >> Not ones that focus on memories, but ones that actually describe time >> being reversed, like movies run backward, etc. >> >> Got any favorites? >> >> > > Not a poem, but there's that great scene in Slaughterhouse Five where > Billy watches a war documentary backwards. Also J. G. Ballard's story > "Time of Passage." There's a poem by Robert Pack in the old Mark > Strand anthology, but I can't find it now. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ Don't forget to order your copy of FILM NOIR! http://stores.lulu.com/store.php?fAcctID=2712239 From editor Wed Sep 24 12:09:45 2008 From: editor (David Baratier) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 09:09:45 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: New-Poetry Digest, Vol 51, Issue 37 In-Reply-To: <200809241254.m8OCsTnJ016356@wiz.cath.vt.edu> Message-ID: <152523.74424.qm@web45606.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Be well David Baratier, Editor Pavement Saw Press 321 Empire Street Montpelier OH 43543 http://pavementsaw.org Subscribe to our e-mail listserv at http://pavementsaw.org/list/?p=subscribe&id=1 --- On Wed, 9/24/08, new-poetry-request at wiz.cath.vt.edu wrote: > From: new-poetry-request at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Subject: New-Poetry Digest, Vol 51, Issue 37 > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Date: Wednesday, September 24, 2008, 12:54 PM > Send New-Poetry mailing list submissions to > new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > or, via email, send a message with subject or body > 'help' to > new-poetry-request at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > You can reach the person managing the list at > new-poetry-owner at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more > specific > than "Re: Contents of New-Poetry digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: Re: poetics is childish (Roger Day) > 2. Maginnes Daily (Jeff Newberry) > 3. Re: Maginnes Daily (AlMaginnes at aol.com) > 4. Re: Backwards poetry (Rsgwynn1 at cs.com) > 5. Re: Backwards poetry (David Weinstock) > 6. Re: Backwards poetry (Judy Prince) > 7. Re: Backwards poetry (Rsgwynn1 at cs.com) > 8. Re: Backwards poetry (Bernadette Geyer) > 9. Re: Maginnes Daily (TheOldMole) > 10. Re: Backwards poetry (Jeff Newberry) > 11. Re:Maginnes Daily (David Graham) > 12. Re: Re:Maginnes Daily (AlMaginnes at aol.com) > 13. Re: Backwards poetry (AlMaginnes at aol.com) > 14. Re: Re: poetics is childish (Halvard Johnson) > 15. Re: [Backwards poetry (David Graham) > 16. Re: Re: [Backwards poetry (AlMaginnes at aol.com) > 17. Re: Backwards poetry (Halvard Johnson) > 18. Backwards poetry (David Graham) > 19. Re: Backwards poetry (AlMaginnes at aol.com) > 20. Backwards poetry (David Graham) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 11:17:07 +0100 > From: "Roger Day" > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Re: poetics is childish > To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News > &, Views" > > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > Lst night as I was perusing my art books, I began to pull > away from > this reductionist view, to move towards a more connected > view, the > artwork as a beast that moves across all genres, and > instantiates > itself according to the context it finds itself in at the > time. It > could appear in several genres. Or none. > > On 9/24/08, Roger Day wrote: > > Evolving from this, bearing in mind that poetry has > to compete with > > other genres these days, I took Hirst's lead and > wondered what was > > unique to Poetry? What distinguishs poetry from the > other art-forms > > out there? This is my question. > > > > Poetry for me is a unique compression of sound, > semantics and graphic > > (text). Take away one of those legs and it begins to > fail. > > > > > > Roger > > > > > > On 9/23/08, Chris Stroffolino > wrote: > > > Don't know which question you mean off-hand > Roger, > > > but if you're asking about the history of > narrative poetry, > > > I do understand why many say that the rise of > the novel as a separate genre > > > (to say nothing of other non-poetic narrative) > definitely coincided with a > > > lessening of narrative poetry. > > > The other, somewhat overlapping issue, is the > rise of "free" (or > > > non-rhyming) verse... > > > If poetry no longer rhymes for most, and > there's short stories and even > > > short short stories, etc., > > > it's understandable why many find > "narrative poetry" an endangered > > > species... > > > > > > On Sep 22, 2008, at 1:43 PM, Roger Day wrote: > > > > > > > > > > I agree with you. But I was also wondering > what you might describe as > > > > poetry's unique point compared with > other genres? > > > > > > > > Seeing as most of you are content to take > pot-shots, rather than > > > > answer that question, here's Nick > Laird's attempt at an answer: > > > > > > > > > http://www.guardian.co.uk/culture/2008/sep/20/poetry > > > > > > > > Roger > > > > > > > > On Mon, Sep 22, 2008 at 6:50 PM, > wrote: > > > > > > > > > In a message dated 9/22/2008 7:36:30 > AM Eastern Daylight Time, > > > > > rog3r.day at gmail.com writes: > > > > > > > > > > I'm contesting the question > > > > > as to what genre narrative is best > suited to. > > > > > > > > > > Photography made quite a few modes of > painting redundant. Indeed, > > > > > Damien Hirst in praise of Gerhard > Richter in the Guardian at the > > > > > weekend, said that all that is left to > painting is it's surface. And > > > > > that's a lot of painting to fall > by the wayside. > > > > > > > > > > To go on telling stories in poetry > means something else once other > > > > > similar modes in other genres are up > for comparison. In other words, > > > > > what is unique about poetry? To me, > it's the use of parameters to > > > > > pattern words across the page, most > usefully done as a collage. You > > > > > see, there are techniques other than > narrative. > > > > > > > > > > Roger, I don't know think I'll > take my notions of art criticism from > > > Damien > > > > > Hirst. > > > > > He certainly couldn't tell Richter > anything about painting...surface, > > > > > texture, content, > > > > > concept, or otherwise. Saying that all > that is left painting is surface, > > > is > > > > > as much saying > > > > > that the window to the universe is > still there, waiting, open, blank, a > > > > > plane in space ready for > > > > > anything. > > > > > > > > > > There is a whole generation of > photo-realists doing quite well in art > > > world, > > > > > 100+ years > > > > > after the advent of photography. And, > of course, lot of photography is > > > > > completely abstract, > > > > > so the a mechanical means of image > capture has become just another > > > medium. > > > > > > > > > > I don't think poetry is > necessarily the best genre for narrative. It's > > > still > > > > > a very good > > > > > means for the 'telling scene', > a view into or way of imaginatively > > > unfolding > > > > > a larger, > > > > > untold story. > > > > > Finnegan > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > > > Looking for simple solutions to your > real-life financial challenges? > > > Check > > > > > out WalletPop for the latest news and > information, tips and calculators. > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > New-Poetry mailing list > > > > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > > > > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > My Stuff: http://www.badstep.net/ > > > > "I began to warm and chill > > > > to objects and their fields" > > > > Nick Cave & The Bad Seeds > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > New-Poetry mailing list > > > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > > > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > New-Poetry mailing list > > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > > > > > -- > > My Stuff: http://www.badstep.net/ > > "I began to warm and chill > > to objects and their fields" > > Nick Cave & The Bad Seeds > > > > > -- > My Stuff: http://www.badstep.net/ > "I began to warm and chill > to objects and their fields" > Nick Cave & The Bad Seeds > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 08:11:59 -0400 > From: "Jeff Newberry" > > Subject: [New-Poetry] Maginnes Daily > To: NewPoetry > Message-ID: > <731bb17a0809240511n503152ddrff79fb48c9b6cf2b at mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > Today, Verse Daily features a fine poem by our very own Al > Maginnes. > > See it here: http://www.versedaily.org/2008/mylives.shtml > > Congrats, Al. > > Best, > Jeff Newberry > > -- > Blog: http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com > Obama Myths: http://www.matthew25.org/paf/index.htm > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080924/ec032704/attachment-0001.html > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 08:17:51 EDT > From: AlMaginnes at aol.com > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Maginnes Daily > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Thanks, Jeff. It was a nice surprise this morning. > > > > **************Looking for simple solutions to your > real-life financial > challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and > information, tips and > calculators. > (http://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001) > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080924/f206e6a6/attachment-0001.html > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 09:11:16 EDT > From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Backwards poetry > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > In a message dated 9/23/2008 9:46:06 PM Central Daylight > Time, > GrahamD at ripon.edu writes: > > > > For a classroom exercise, I'm looking for poems > that reverse time. Not ones > > that focus on memories, but ones that actually > describe time being reversed, > > like movies run backward, etc. > > > > Got any favorites? > > > > > > > Not a poem, but there's that great scene in > Slaughterhouse Five where Billy > watches a war documentary backwards. Also J. G. > Ballard's story "Time of > Passage." There's a poem by Robert Pack in the > old Mark Strand anthology, but I > can't find it now. > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080924/8f7e20e6/attachment-0001.html > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 09:19:53 -0400 > From: "David Weinstock" > > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Backwards poetry > To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News > &, Views" > > Message-ID: > <437b1e3a0809240619h31d10546r64aeb21f14f2559f at mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > There's the old joke: what happens when you play a > country music record > backward? > > You get your wife back, you get your truck back, you get > your job back, your > get your dog back. > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080924/f6186faa/attachment-0001.html > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 6 > Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 09:24:12 -0400 > From: "Judy Prince" > > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Backwards poetry > To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News > &, Views" > > Message-ID: > <7db1d01b0809240624t2ab2aedai8b7352a8f192d6e6 at mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > or husband, as the case more often is... > Judy > > 2008/9/24 David Weinstock > > > There's the old joke: what happens when you play a > country music record > > backward? > > > > You get your wife back, you get your truck back, you > get your job back, > > your get your dog back. > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080924/044324f1/attachment-0001.html > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 7 > Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 09:28:45 EDT > From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Backwards poetry > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > In a message dated 9/24/2008 8:20:25 AM Central Daylight > Time, > david.weinstock at gmail.com writes: > > > > There's the old joke: what happens when you play a > country music record > > backward? > > > > You get your wife back, you get your truck back, you > get your job back, your > > get your dog back. > > > > > Yeah, but you have to give your beer back too. > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080924/2be81b66/attachment-0001.html > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 8 > Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 06:57:25 -0700 (PDT) > From: Bernadette Geyer > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Backwards poetry > To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & > Views" > > Message-ID: > <837373.70433.qm at web50409.mail.re2.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > Martin Amis' book Time's Arrow comes to mind, but > no poems. Sorry. > > > --- On Wed, 9/24/08, Rsgwynn1 at cs.com > wrote: > > From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Backwards poetry > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Date: Wednesday, September 24, 2008, 9:11 AM > > > In a message dated 9/23/2008 9:46:06 PM Central Daylight > Time, GrahamD at ripon.edu writes: > > > For a classroom exercise, I'm looking for poems that > reverse time.? Not ones that focus on memories, but ones > that actually describe time being reversed, like movies run > backward, etc. > > Got any favorites? > > > > Not a poem, but there's that great scene in > Slaughterhouse Five where Billy watches a war documentary > backwards.? Also J. G. Ballard's story "Time of > Passage."? There's a poem by Robert Pack in the > old Mark Strand anthology, but I can't find it now. > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080924/ff17e5cd/attachment-0001.html > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 9 > Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 09:57:46 -0400 > From: TheOldMole > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Maginnes Daily > To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News > & Views" > > Message-ID: <48DA475A.3090403 at opus40.org> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > I love this poem (narrative and all). Congrats, Al, not > just on being > recognized by Verse Daily, but on wonderful work. > > Jeff Newberry wrote: > > Today, Verse Daily features a fine poem by our very > own Al Maginnes. > > > > See it here: > http://www.versedaily.org/2008/mylives.shtml > > > > Congrats, Al. > > > > Best, > > Jeff Newberry > > > > -- > > Blog: http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com > > Obama Myths: http://www.matthew25.org/paf/index.htm > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > -- > Tad Richards > http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ > http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ > > Don't forget to order your copy of FILM NOIR! > http://stores.lulu.com/store.php?fAcctID=2712239 > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 10 > Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 10:07:13 -0400 > From: "Jeff Newberry" > > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Backwards poetry > To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News > &, Views" > > Message-ID: > <731bb17a0809240707s745cc61bj653a41636ef581a3 at mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > You can have my beer when you pry it from my cold, dead > hands! > > Jeff Newberry > > On Wed, Sep 24, 2008 at 9:28 AM, > wrote: > > > > > Yeah, but you have to give your beer back too. > > > > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > > > -- > Blog: http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com > Obama Myths: http://www.matthew25.org/paf/index.htm > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080924/5e319771/attachment-0001.html > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 11 > Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 09:08:16 -0500 > From: David Graham > Subject: [New-Poetry] Re:Maginnes Daily > To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News > & Views" > > Message-ID: > <1B6E5E38-F386-4D8A-98B8-930FE2525A7A at ripon.edu> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Amen. Nice one, Al. By the way, there's a link on > the Verse Daily > info page to your blog, which seems to be a dead one. > > Is it true you have a blog? URL? > > > > > ======================================== > David Graham > grahamd at ripon.edu > > Home Page: > http://web.mac.com/drjazz > > Poetry Library: > http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html > ========================================== > > > > > On Sep 24, 2008, at 8:57 AM, TheOldMole wrote: > > > I love this poem (narrative and all). Congrats, Al, > not just on > > being recognized by Verse Daily, but on wonderful > work. > > > > Jeff Newberry wrote: > >> Today, Verse Daily features a fine poem by our > very own Al Maginnes. > >> > >> See it here: > http://www.versedaily.org/2008/mylives.shtml > >> > >> Congrats, Al. > >> Best, > >> Jeff Newberry > >> > >> -- > >> Blog: http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com > >> Obama Myths: > http://www.matthew25.org/paf/index.htm > >> > >> > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > >> --- > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> New-Poetry mailing list > >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > >> > > > > -- > > Tad Richards > > http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ > > http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ > > > > Don't forget to order your copy of FILM NOIR! > > http://stores.lulu.com/store.php?fAcctID=2712239 > > > > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080924/76f1d724/attachment-0001.html > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 12 > Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 10:38:42 EDT > From: AlMaginnes at aol.com > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Re:Maginnes Daily > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > No blog here. I'm not sure what that link is. Between > teaching, chasing a > two year old, trying to write and whatever else comes up in > the course of a day, > I don't have time to blog. Or even check my spelling > very often. > > > > **************Looking for simple solutions to your > real-life financial > challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and > information, tips and > calculators. > (http://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001) > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080924/f778a855/attachment-0001.html > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 13 > Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 10:40:38 EDT > From: AlMaginnes at aol.com > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Backwards poetry > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > There's a poem in Rodney Jones's second book that > has some images of time > running backwords. Can't remember the poem's title > right now (or the title of > his second book) but it's the first or second poem in > the book. > > > > **************Looking for simple solutions to your > real-life financial > challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and > information, tips and > calculators. > (http://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001) > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080924/7d7bc391/attachment-0001.html > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 14 > Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 09:45:08 -0500 > From: Halvard Johnson > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Re: poetics is childish > To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News > & Views" > > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; > delsp=yes > > Ah, the art work as shape-shifter. That's a concept I > find intriguing. And when it comes to narrative > nowadays, I get most of what I need from movies. > > Hal > > McCain / Palin -- Just say thanks but no thanks. > They're a bridge to nowhere. > > Halvard Johnson > ================ > halvard at earthlink.net > halvard at gmail.com > http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > http://www.hamiltonstone.org > http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html > > > > On Sep 24, 2008, at 5:17 AM, Roger Day wrote: > > > Lst night as I was perusing my art books, I began to > pull away from > > this reductionist view, to move towards a more > connected view, the > > artwork as a beast that moves across all genres, and > instantiates > > itself according to the context it finds itself in at > the time. It > > could appear in several genres. Or none. > > > > On 9/24/08, Roger Day > wrote: > >> Evolving from this, bearing in mind that poetry > has to compete with > >> other genres these days, I took Hirst's lead > and wondered what was > >> unique to Poetry? What distinguishs poetry from > the other art-forms > >> out there? This is my question. > >> > >> Poetry for me is a unique compression of sound, > semantics and graphic > >> (text). Take away one of those legs and it begins > to fail. > >> > >> > >> Roger > >> > >> > >> On 9/23/08, Chris Stroffolino > wrote: > >>> Don't know which question you mean > off-hand Roger, > >>> but if you're asking about the history of > narrative poetry, > >>> I do understand why many say that the rise of > the novel as a > >>> separate genre > >>> (to say nothing of other non-poetic narrative) > definitely > >>> coincided with a > >>> lessening of narrative poetry. > >>> The other, somewhat overlapping issue, is the > rise of "free" (or > >>> non-rhyming) verse... > >>> If poetry no longer rhymes for most, and > there's short stories and > >>> even > >>> short short stories, etc., > >>> it's understandable why many find > "narrative poetry" an endangered > >>> species... > >>> > >>> On Sep 22, 2008, at 1:43 PM, Roger Day wrote: > >>> > >>> > >>>> I agree with you. But I was also wondering > what you might > >>>> describe as > >>>> poetry's unique point compared with > other genres? > >>>> > >>>> Seeing as most of you are content to take > pot-shots, rather than > >>>> answer that question, here's Nick > Laird's attempt at an answer: > >>>> > >>>> > http://www.guardian.co.uk/culture/2008/sep/20/poetry > >>>> > >>>> Roger > >>>> > >>>> On Mon, Sep 22, 2008 at 6:50 PM, > wrote: > >>>> > >>>>> In a message dated 9/22/2008 7:36:30 > AM Eastern Daylight Time, > >>>>> rog3r.day at gmail.com writes: > >>>>> > >>>>> I'm contesting the question > >>>>> as to what genre narrative is best > suited to. > >>>>> > >>>>> Photography made quite a few modes of > painting redundant. Indeed, > >>>>> Damien Hirst in praise of Gerhard > Richter in the Guardian at the > >>>>> weekend, said that all that is left to > painting is it's surface. > >>>>> And > >>>>> that's a lot of painting to fall > by the wayside. > >>>>> > >>>>> To go on telling stories in poetry > means something else once other > >>>>> similar modes in other genres are up > for comparison. In other > >>>>> words, > >>>>> what is unique about poetry? To me, > it's the use of parameters to > >>>>> pattern words across the page, most > usefully done as a collage. > >>>>> You > >>>>> see, there are techniques other than > narrative. > >>>>> > >>>>> Roger, I don't know think I'll > take my notions of art criticism > >>>>> from > >>> Damien > >>>>> Hirst. > >>>>> He certainly couldn't tell Richter > anything about > >>>>> painting...surface, > >>>>> texture, content, > >>>>> concept, or otherwise. Saying that all > that is left painting is > >>>>> surface, > >>> is > >>>>> as much saying > >>>>> that the window to the universe is > still there, waiting, open, > >>>>> blank, a > >>>>> plane in space ready for > >>>>> anything. > >>>>> > >>>>> There is a whole generation of > photo-realists doing quite well > >>>>> in art > >>> world, > >>>>> 100+ years > >>>>> after the advent of photography. And, > of course, lot of > >>>>> photography is > >>>>> completely abstract, > >>>>> so the a mechanical means of image > capture has become just another > >>> medium. > >>>>> > >>>>> I don't think poetry is > necessarily the best genre for > >>>>> narrative. It's > >>> still > >>>>> a very good > >>>>> means for the 'telling scene', > a view into or way of imaginatively > >>> unfolding > >>>>> a larger, > >>>>> untold story. > >>>>> Finnegan > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> ________________________________ > >>>>> Looking for simple solutions to your > real-life financial > >>>>> challenges? > >>> Check > >>>>> out WalletPop for the latest news and > information, tips and > >>>>> calculators. > >>>>> > _______________________________________________ > >>>>> New-Poetry mailing list > >>>>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > >>>>> > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> -- > >>>> My Stuff: http://www.badstep.net/ > >>>> "I began to warm and chill > >>>> to objects and their fields" > >>>> Nick Cave & The Bad Seeds > >>>> > _______________________________________________ > >>>> New-Poetry mailing list > >>>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > >>>> > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > >>>> > >>> > >>> > _______________________________________________ > >>> New-Poetry mailing list > >>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > >>> > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > >>> > >> > >> > >> -- > >> My Stuff: http://www.badstep.net/ > >> "I began to warm and chill > >> to objects and their fields" > >> Nick Cave & The Bad Seeds > >> > > > > > > -- > > My Stuff: http://www.badstep.net/ > > "I began to warm and chill > > to objects and their fields" > > Nick Cave & The Bad Seeds > > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 15 > Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 09:50:31 -0500 > From: David Graham > Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: [Backwards poetry > To: NewPoetry > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Thanks, I think that book's around here somewhere, > whatever it's called by > what's his name (mutter mutter mutter)--geez, I'm > getting tired of this > middle aged memory. . . . > > I can't remember things I want to, but lately I've > woken up most mornings > with a song running through my head. This a.m. it was Eddy > Arnold doing > "Cattle Call." > > Hal! You remember that backwards poem of yours yet? > > > > > > On 9/24/08 9:40 AM, "AlMaginnes at aol.com" > wrote: > > > There's a poem in Rodney Jones's second book > that has some images of time > > running backwords. Can't remember the poem's > title right now (or the title of > > his second book) but it's the first or second poem > in the book. > > > > > > > ==================================================== > David Graham > grahamd at ripon.edu > Home Page: > http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/About%20Me.html > > Poetry Library: > http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html > ==================================================== > > > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080924/53a1a1c8/attachment-0001.html > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 16 > Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 10:57:38 EDT > From: AlMaginnes at aol.com > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Re: [Backwards poetry > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Most of my books are in storage right now. Got to get them > home one day. > > > > > > **************Looking for simple solutions to your > real-life financial > challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and > information, tips and > calculators. > (http://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001) > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080924/ee0f2774/attachment-0001.html > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 17 > Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 09:59:49 -0500 > From: Halvard Johnson > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Backwards poetry > To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News > & Views" > > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" > > Well, this one involves some backwardsness: > > THE GRASSY KNOLL > > In my dream > I am standing > behind a white > picket fence > on a grassy knoll > drawing a bead on > a president > in an open car. > I get off two > quick shots, > see a head > explode > in a haze > of red and > gray, see > the woman turn > to scramble > after bits of > brain > and skull, > see, over > my shoulder > heads turning > toward me, toward > where I am hidden, > see uniformed men > running toward me. > But then all the pictures > run backwards toward > where the car comes > around the corner > straight towards me > where I stand on > the grassy knoll > sighting along > the barrel of my > rifle, seeing > the head again, the > smiling face, the shock > of hair, feeling the warm > steel of the trigger, > hearing the cheers > of the crowd, the > voice in my head > shouting, ?Shoot!? > > --HJ > > fr. Guide to the Tokyo Subway > > McCain / Palin -- Just say thanks but no thanks. > They're a bridge to nowhere. > > Halvard Johnson > ================ > halvard at earthlink.net > halvard at gmail.com > http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > http://www.hamiltonstone.org > http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080924/4e0e5967/attachment-0001.html > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 18 > Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 10:05:17 -0500 > From: David Graham > Subject: [New-Poetry] Backwards poetry > To: NewPoetry > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Is this the one? > > Remembering Fire > > Almost as though the eggs run and leap back into their > shells > And the shells seal behind them, and the willows call back > their driftwood, > And the oceans move predictably into deltas, into the > hidden oubliettes in > the sides of mountains, > > And all the emptied bottles are filled, and, flake by > flake, the snow rises > out of the coal piles, > And the mothers cry out terribly as the children enter > their bodies > And the freeway to Birmingham is peeled off the scar tissue > of fields, > > The way it occurs to me, the last thing first, never as in > life, > The unexpected rush, but this time I stand on the cold hill > and watch > Fire ripen from the seedbed of ashes, from the maze of > tortured glass, > > Molten nails and hinges, the flames lift each plank into > place > And the walls resume their high standing, the many walls, > and the rafters > Float upward, the ceiling and roof, smoke ribbons into the > wet cushions > > And my father hurries back through the front door with the > box > Of important papers, carrying as much as he can save, > All of his deeds and policies, the clock, the few pieces of > silver; > > He places me in the shape of my own body in the feather > mattress > And I go down into the soft wings, the mute and impalpable > country > Of sheep holding all of this back, drifting toward the > unborn. > > --Rodney Jones. The Unborn, Atlantic Monthly Press, 1985. > > > > On 9/24/08 9:57 AM, "AlMaginnes at aol.com" > wrote: > > > Most of my books are in storage right now. Got to get > them home one day. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Looking for simple solutions to your real-life > financial challenges? Check out > > WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips > and calculators > > > > //www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001> . > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > ==================================================== > David Graham > grahamd at ripon.edu > Home Page: > http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/About%20Me.html > > Poetry Library: > http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html > ==================================================== > > > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080924/acf94608/attachment-0001.html > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 19 > Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 11:18:38 EDT > From: AlMaginnes at aol.com > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Backwards poetry > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > That's it. Good work. > > > > **************Looking for simple solutions to your > real-life financial > challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and > information, tips and > calculators. > (http://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001) > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080924/1721d95f/attachment-0001.html > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 20 > Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 10:22:29 -0500 > From: David Graham > Subject: [New-Poetry] Backwards poetry > To: NewPoetry > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Oh, we all get involved in backwardness sometimes, Hal! > > Thanks, everyone, for the backwards suggestions. Marvelous > stuff, Tad & > Hal. Also Rodney. . . . > > If anyone can think of any more such poems, I'm all > ears. It's strange, > when I cooked up this exercise I assumed I'd be able to > think of dozens of > contemporary poems that pull this little trick. > Couldn't. > > Here's one of mine, though, an old one. > > Maharg Divad > > > > Boys Backward And Forward > > "You take the language, I'll keep the > fur" > --from a dream > > Let's roll this whole movie backwards > and see swimmers sucked along feet first > by their thrashing wakes, silly grins vanishing > under inverted splashes, then feet and legs > arcing up softly to the quivering board > where they'll bounce a bit, then retreat, retreat. > Where do they go, those glistening selves > tanned and dripping with their yawning summers? > Why are they climbing into cutoffs and T-shirts > with such eager faces? Why would they scatter > backwards down the driveway on wobbly bikes? > > Already the June leafage is draining away > into paler shades of May and April. > The last freak snowfall mushrooms over brown grass > before fluttering upward. Soon we will reappear > clumsy-legged among snowbanks, catching snowballs > and disassembling them carefully back to our feet. > We'll be just faces now, peering out > from the hoods of our fur-lined parkas, > and everyone will be busy swallowing > cloud after cloud of indigestible words. > > --David Graham. Stutter Monk. Flume Press, 1986. > > > > > On 9/24/08 9:59 AM, "Halvard Johnson" > wrote: > > > Well, this one involves some backwardsness: > > > > THE GRASSY KNOLL > > > > > > --HJ > > > > fr. Guide to the Tokyo Subway > > > > > > > ==================================================== > David Graham > grahamd at ripon.edu > Home Page: > http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/About%20Me.html > > Poetry Library: > http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html > ==================================================== > > > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080924/87ab6c22/attachment.html > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > End of New-Poetry Digest, Vol 51, Issue 37 > ****************************************** From anny.ballardini Wed Sep 24 12:45:07 2008 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 18:45:07 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Backwards poetry In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4b65c2d70809240945i3afb8e91ue5157c9d5b0e213d@mail.gmail.com> Very nice, and great is Hal's. On Wed, Sep 24, 2008 at 5:22 PM, David Graham wrote: > Oh, we all get involved in backwardness sometimes, Hal! > > Thanks, everyone, for the backwards suggestions. Marvelous stuff, Tad & > Hal. Also Rodney. . . . > > If anyone can think of any more such poems, I'm all ears. It's strange, > when I cooked up this exercise I assumed I'd be able to think of dozens of > contemporary poems that pull this little trick. Couldn't. > > Here's one of mine, though, an old one. > > Maharg Divad > > > > *Boys Backward And Forward > * > "You take the language, I'll keep the fur" > --from a dream > > Let's roll this whole movie backwards > and see swimmers sucked along feet first > by their thrashing wakes, silly grins vanishing > under inverted splashes, then feet and legs > arcing up softly to the quivering board > where they'll bounce a bit, then retreat, retreat. > Where do they go, those glistening selves > tanned and dripping with their yawning summers? > Why are they climbing into cutoffs and T-shirts > with such eager faces? Why would they scatter > backwards down the driveway on wobbly bikes? > > Already the June leafage is draining away > into paler shades of May and April. > The last freak snowfall mushrooms over brown grass > before fluttering upward. Soon we will reappear > clumsy-legged among snowbanks, catching snowballs > and disassembling them carefully back to our feet. > We'll be just faces now, peering out > from the hoods of our fur-lined parkas, > and everyone will be busy swallowing > cloud after cloud of indigestible words. > > --David Graham. *Stutter Monk.* Flume Press, 1986. > > > > > On 9/24/08 9:59 AM, "Halvard Johnson" wrote: > > Well, this one involves *some* backwardsness: > > THE GRASSY KNOLL > > > --HJ > > fr. *Guide to the Tokyo Subway > * > > > > > ==================================================== > David Graham > grahamd at ripon.edu > Home Page: > http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/About%20Me.html > > Poetry Library: > http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html > ==================================================== > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd Wed Sep 24 13:07:11 2008 From: grahamd (David Graham) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 12:07:11 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Backwards poetry In-Reply-To: <48DA63C4.5070604@opus40.org> Message-ID: Oooooooooh! Waters of Childhood: Good suggestion. And thanks, Chris, for reminding me also of the Creeley. I'd never read the Pack "Snow Rise" before, either. Thanks thanks thanks. On 9/24/08 10:59 AM, "TheOldMole" wrote: > What about Mark Strand's "Where are the Waters of Childhood?" > > John Jeffrey wrote: >> The Robert Pack poem you're thinking of is "The Boat" ("I dressed my >> father in his little clothes"). Pack's got another called, too, >> called "Snow Rise" ("Dreaming time has reversed, I watch drowned >> snow/Appear to lift up from the lake"). >> ==================================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/About%20Me.html Poetry Library: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ==================================================== From jforjames Wed Sep 24 13:19:20 2008 From: jforjames (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 13:19:20 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Dictionaires???? In-Reply-To: <5C3B806D-EDA0-485C-8F72-9E2071B3A081@earthlink.net> References: <8CAEBC2F14F1BAE-FC8-1503@webmail-dd02.sysops.aol.com> <5C3B806D-EDA0-485C-8F72-9E2071B3A081@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <8CAEC80D0D64C9D-1774-B08@webmail-md06.sysops.aol.com> Hal, yes, hyperlinks ensure I get randomness and sidetracking in my e-diet, every day.?And I probably get exposed to thousands?of unusual words (sic transit gloria mundi) in a year's time.?? But it's not the same experience you?get fumbling through pages of a?dictionary. I think in those analog encounters I take more time with the odd?entry, looking over the subdefintions, and forms of the word, roots, etymology, etc. 99 out of 100 times I Google for a 'quick defintion', I get it and get out. But I feel there is something lacking in that instant gratification. Call me a backsliding Luddite, but I'm starting to make a more conscious effort to reach for the cumbersome unabridged dictionary that was for a time?gathering dust on the shelf behind my screen. Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: Halvard Johnson Sent: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 12:44 am Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Dictionaires???? Finnegan, you're sounding like someone who's never gone web-surfing. Losing randomness? Losing sidetracking? No way. Hal McCain / Palin -- Just say thanks but no thanks. They're a bridge to nowhere. Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at earthlink.net halvard at gmail.com http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html http://entropyandme.blogspot.com? http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html On Sep 23, 2008, at 1:40 PM, JforJames at aol.com wrote: At the risk of old-fogeyism, I want to mourn the declining use of the print dictionary (or encyclopedia, for that matter). Nine times out of ten, flipping thru pages, trying to find?the particular?word/entry I was looking for (and sometimes the alphabetic sequence would escape me), I'd stumble across a?strange or unusual word?(a new world, one might say).? You lose some of that randomness, the sidetracking that goes on, with the?online versions.? Finnegan Find phone numbers fast with the New AOL Yellow Pages! _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry = _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames Wed Sep 24 13:33:31 2008 From: jforjames (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 13:33:31 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Backwards poetry In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8CAEC82CC761EB5-1774-C51@webmail-md06.sysops.aol.com> There's the old joke: what happens when you play a country music record backward? You get your wife back, you get your truck back, you get your job back, your get your dog back. Yeah, but you have to give your beer back too. -- On the positive side, you might get back several notches in you belt too. Yeah, but you have to give your beer back too. -- On the positive side, you might get back several notches in you belt too. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard Wed Sep 24 13:57:20 2008 From: halvard (Halvard Johnson) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 12:57:20 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Dictionaires???? In-Reply-To: <8CAEC80D0D64C9D-1774-B08@webmail-md06.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CAEBC2F14F1BAE-FC8-1503@webmail-dd02.sysops.aol.com> <5C3B806D-EDA0-485C-8F72-9E2071B3A081@earthlink.net> <8CAEC80D0D64C9D-1774-B08@webmail-md06.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <8E4B66AF-9605-4857-B389-62984D5BF565@earthlink.net> Low on instant gratification? Click here-- http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/4258/337/1600/IMG_3026.jpg Hal McCain / Palin -- Just say thanks but no thanks. They're a bridge to nowhere. Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at earthlink.net halvard at gmail.com http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html On Sep 24, 2008, at 12:19 PM, JforJames at aol.com wrote: > Hal, > yes, hyperlinks ensure I get randomness and sidetracking in my e- > diet, every day. And I probably get exposed to thousands of unusual > words (sic transit gloria mundi) in a year's time. > But it's not the same experience you get fumbling through pages of a > dictionary. I think in those analog encounters I take more time with > the odd entry, looking over the subdefintions, and forms of the > word, roots, etymology, etc. 99 out of 100 times I Google for a > 'quick defintion', I get it and get out. But I feel there is > something lacking in that instant gratification. Call me a > backsliding Luddite, but I'm starting to make a more conscious > effort to reach for the cumbersome unabridged dictionary that was > for a time gathering dust on the shelf behind my screen. > Finnegan > > -----Original Message----- > From: Halvard Johnson > Sent: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 12:44 am > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Dictionaires???? > > Finnegan, you're sounding like someone who's never gone > web-surfing. Losing randomness? Losing sidetracking? No way. > > Hal > > McCain / Palin -- Just say thanks but no thanks. > They're a bridge to nowhere. > > Halvard Johnson > ================ > halvard at earthlink.net > halvard at gmail.com > http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > http://www.hamiltonstone.org > http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html > > > > On Sep 23, 2008, at 1:40 PM, JforJames at aol.com wrote: > >> At the risk of old-fogeyism, I want to mourn the declining use of >> the print dictionary (or encyclopedia, for that matter). >> Nine times out of ten, flipping thru pages, trying to find the >> particular word/entry I was looking for (and sometimes the >> alphabetic sequence would escape me), I'd stumble across a strange >> or unusual word (a new world, one might say). >> You lose some of that randomness, the sidetracking that goes on, >> with the online versions. >> Finnegan >> Find phone numbers fast with the New AOL Yellow Pages! >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > = > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > Find phone numbers fast with the New AOL Yellow Pages! > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chris.lott Wed Sep 24 14:21:21 2008 From: chris.lott (Chris Lott) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 10:21:21 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] Dictionaires???? In-Reply-To: <821800413FE24E38AE0B5AD3CCD8D217@win.louisiana.edu> References: <689577.23861.qm@web83304.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <821800413FE24E38AE0B5AD3CCD8D217@win.louisiana.edu> Message-ID: <9b1b9dab0809241121x1f936818m68f6ab43917fc830@mail.gmail.com> On Tue, Sep 23, 2008 at 07:14, Skip Fox wrote: > I'm wondering what your desks (or chairs) have next to the computer (or book > or pad or . . .) by way of dictionary? > I was thinking about asking a similar question, but expanded to "what reference books do you keep close at hand" -- or sites, I suppose, but I often work with no internet access so those resources are as useful to me as a Levine to a Grumman... c From anny.ballardini Wed Sep 24 15:14:49 2008 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 21:14:49 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Dictionaires???? In-Reply-To: <8E4B66AF-9605-4857-B389-62984D5BF565@earthlink.net> References: <8CAEBC2F14F1BAE-FC8-1503@webmail-dd02.sysops.aol.com> <5C3B806D-EDA0-485C-8F72-9E2071B3A081@earthlink.net> <8CAEC80D0D64C9D-1774-B08@webmail-md06.sysops.aol.com> <8E4B66AF-9605-4857-B389-62984D5BF565@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <4b65c2d70809241214i7e25cfcciebf5df17c236c0e5@mail.gmail.com> what kind of gratification is there to be received? On Wed, Sep 24, 2008 at 7:57 PM, Halvard Johnson wrote: > Low on instant gratification? Click here-- > http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/4258/337/1600/IMG_3026.jpg > > Hal > > McCain / Palin -- Just say thanks but no thanks. > They're a bridge to nowhere. > > Halvard Johnson > ================ > halvard at earthlink.net > halvard at gmail.com > http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > http://www.hamiltonstone.org > http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html > > > > On Sep 24, 2008, at 12:19 PM, JforJames at aol.com wrote: > > Hal, > yes, hyperlinks ensure I get randomness and sidetracking in my e-diet, > every day. And I probably get exposed to thousands of unusual words (sic > transit gloria mundi) in a year's time. > But it's not the same experience you get fumbling through pages of > a dictionary. I think in those analog encounters I take more time with the > odd entry, looking over the subdefintions, and forms of the word, roots, > etymology, etc. 99 out of 100 times I Google for a 'quick defintion', I get > it and get out. But I feel there is something lacking in that instant > gratification. Call me a backsliding Luddite, but I'm starting to make a > more conscious effort to reach for the cumbersome unabridged dictionary that > was for a time gathering dust on the shelf behind my screen. > Finnegan > > -----Original Message----- > From: Halvard Johnson > Sent: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 12:44 am > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Dictionaires???? > > Finnegan, you're sounding like someone who's never gone web-surfing. > Losing randomness? Losing sidetracking? No way. > > Hal > > McCain / Palin -- Just say thanks but no thanks. > They're a bridge to nowhere. > > Halvard Johnson > ================ > halvard at earthlink.net > halvard at gmail.com > http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > http://www.hamiltonstone.org > http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html > > > > On Sep 23, 2008, at 1:40 PM, JforJames at aol.com wrote: > > At the risk of old-fogeyism, I want to mourn the declining use of the > print dictionary (or encyclopedia, for that matter). > Nine times out of ten, flipping thru pages, trying to find the > particular word/entry I was looking for (and sometimes the > alphabetic sequence would escape me), I'd stumble across a strange or > unusual word (a new world, one might say). > You lose some of that randomness, the sidetracking that goes on, with > the online versions. > Finnegan > ------------------------------ > Find phone numbers fast with the New AOL Yellow Pages > ! > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > = > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing listNew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.eduhttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > ------------------------------ > Find phone numbers fast with the New AOL Yellow Pages > ! > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From skip Wed Sep 24 15:37:08 2008 From: skip (Skip Fox) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 14:37:08 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Dictionaires???? In-Reply-To: <4b65c2d70809241214i7e25cfcciebf5df17c236c0e5@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <8C6DBDADA79046FAAF0848D74B814EC3@win.louisiana.edu> The gratification of the abyss, scratching the vacuum in all of us with the post-capitalist aura of nothingness, the empty storefront at which we stand and wait for our lives to return, like staring into an empty mirror. (Some tastes are acquired.) -----Original Message----- From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Anny Ballardini Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 2:15 PM To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &,Views Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Dictionaires???? what kind of gratification is there to be received? On Wed, Sep 24, 2008 at 7:57 PM, Halvard Johnson wrote: Low on instant gratification? Click here-- http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/4258/337/1600/IMG_3026.jpg Hal McCain / Palin -- Just say thanks but no thanks. They're a bridge to nowhere. Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at earthlink.net halvard at gmail.com http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html On Sep 24, 2008, at 12:19 PM, JforJames at aol.com wrote: Hal, yes, hyperlinks ensure I get randomness and sidetracking in my e-diet, every day. And I probably get exposed to thousands of unusual words (sic transit gloria mundi) in a year's time. But it's not the same experience you get fumbling through pages of a dictionary. I think in those analog encounters I take more time with the odd entry, looking over the subdefintions, and forms of the word, roots, etymology, etc. 99 out of 100 times I Google for a 'quick defintion', I get it and get out. But I feel there is something lacking in that instant gratification. Call me a backsliding Luddite, but I'm starting to make a more conscious effort to reach for the cumbersome unabridged dictionary that was for a time gathering dust on the shelf behind my screen. Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: Halvard Johnson Sent: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 12:44 am Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Dictionaires???? Finnegan, you're sounding like someone who's never gone web-surfing. Losing randomness? Losing sidetracking? No way. Hal McCain / Palin -- Just say thanks but no thanks. They're a bridge to nowhere. Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at earthlink.net halvard at gmail.com http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html On Sep 23, 2008, at 1:40 PM, JforJames at aol.com wrote: At the risk of old-fogeyism, I want to mourn the declining use of the print dictionary (or encyclopedia, for that matter). Nine times out of ten, flipping thru pages, trying to find the particular word/entry I was looking for (and sometimes the alphabetic sequence would escape me), I'd stumble across a strange or unusual word (a new world, one might say). You lose some of that randomness, the sidetracking that goes on, with the online versions. Finnegan _____ Find phone numbers fast with the New AOL Yellow Pages! _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry = _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _____ Find phone numbers fast with the New AOL Yellow Pages! _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini Wed Sep 24 16:29:25 2008 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 22:29:25 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Dictionaires???? In-Reply-To: <8C6DBDADA79046FAAF0848D74B814EC3@win.louisiana.edu> References: <4b65c2d70809241214i7e25cfcciebf5df17c236c0e5@mail.gmail.com> <8C6DBDADA79046FAAF0848D74B814EC3@win.louisiana.edu> Message-ID: <4b65c2d70809241329o26b1de15tc555050a298c9cc8@mail.gmail.com> the existentialist empty void self-gratifying itself [perhaps more than what we thought it would] forced into histories of pre-packed words as much as any "ism" was suffocated into patterned brick beds carved into our souls left to howl when at night all outside square support is lost and darkness reigns in unconscious rest ? Ah! That kind of gratification On Wed, Sep 24, 2008 at 9:37 PM, Skip Fox wrote: > The gratification of the abyss, scratching the vacuum in all of us with > the post-capitalist aura of nothingness, the empty storefront at which we > stand and wait for our lives to return, like staring into an empty mirror. > (Some tastes are acquired.) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > *From:* new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto: > new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] *On Behalf Of *Anny Ballardini > *Sent:* Wednesday, September 24, 2008 2:15 PM > *To:* NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &,Views > *Subject:* Re: [New-Poetry] Dictionaires???? > > > > what kind of gratification is there to be received? > > On Wed, Sep 24, 2008 at 7:57 PM, Halvard Johnson > wrote: > > Low on instant gratification? Click here-- > > > > http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/4258/337/1600/IMG_3026.jpg > > > > Hal > > > > McCain / Palin -- Just say thanks but no thanks. > > They're a bridge to nowhere. > > > > Halvard Johnson > > ================ > > halvard at earthlink.net > > halvard at gmail.com > > http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html > > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > > http://www.hamiltonstone.org > > *http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html > * > > > > > > > > On Sep 24, 2008, at 12:19 PM, JforJames at aol.com wrote: > > > > Hal, > yes, hyperlinks ensure I get randomness and sidetracking in my e-diet, > every day. And I probably get exposed to thousands of unusual words (sic > transit gloria mundi) in a year's time. > But it's not the same experience you get fumbling through pages of > a dictionary. I think in those analog encounters I take more time with the > odd entry, looking over the subdefintions, and forms of the word, roots, > etymology, etc. 99 out of 100 times I Google for a 'quick defintion', I get > it and get out. But I feel there is something lacking in that instant > gratification. Call me a backsliding Luddite, but I'm starting to make a > more conscious effort to reach for the cumbersome unabridged dictionary that > was for a time gathering dust on the shelf behind my screen. > Finnegan > > -----Original Message----- > From: Halvard Johnson > Sent: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 12:44 am > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Dictionaires???? > > Finnegan, you're sounding like someone who's never gone > > web-surfing. Losing randomness? Losing sidetracking? No way. > > > > Hal > > > > McCain / Palin -- Just say thanks but no thanks. > > They're a bridge to nowhere. > > > > Halvard Johnson > > ================ > > halvard at earthlink.net > > halvard at gmail.com > > http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html > > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > > http://www.hamiltonstone.org > > *http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html > * > > > > > > > > On Sep 23, 2008, at 1:40 PM, JforJames at aol.com wrote: > > > > At the risk of old-fogeyism, I want to mourn the declining use of the > print dictionary (or encyclopedia, for that matter). > Nine times out of ten, flipping thru pages, trying to find the > particular word/entry I was looking for (and sometimes the > alphabetic sequence would escape me), I'd stumble across a strange or > unusual word (a new world, one might say). > You lose some of that randomness, the sidetracking that goes on, with > the online versions. > Finnegan > ------------------------------ > > Find phone numbers fast with the New AOL Yellow Pages > ! > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > = > > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > ------------------------------ > > Find phone numbers fast with the New AOL Yellow Pages > ! > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > -- > Anny Ballardini > http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ > http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome > http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html > I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing > star! > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard Wed Sep 24 18:38:46 2008 From: halvard (Halvard Johnson) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 17:38:46 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Dictionaires???? In-Reply-To: <4b65c2d70809241214i7e25cfcciebf5df17c236c0e5@mail.gmail.com> References: <8CAEBC2F14F1BAE-FC8-1503@webmail-dd02.sysops.aol.com> <5C3B806D-EDA0-485C-8F72-9E2071B3A081@earthlink.net> <8CAEC80D0D64C9D-1774-B08@webmail-md06.sysops.aol.com> <8E4B66AF-9605-4857-B389-62984D5BF565@earthlink.net> <4b65c2d70809241214i7e25cfcciebf5df17c236c0e5@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <2DE0EE11-21BF-4860-A6DC-B43309222313@earthlink.net> Instant. Anyway, instant if the place isn't closed. Hal McCain / Palin -- Just say thanks but no thanks. They're a bridge to nowhere. Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at earthlink.net halvard at gmail.com http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html On Sep 24, 2008, at 2:14 PM, Anny Ballardini wrote: > what kind of gratification is there to be received? > > On Wed, Sep 24, 2008 at 7:57 PM, Halvard Johnson > wrote: > Low on instant gratification? Click here-- > > http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/4258/337/1600/IMG_3026.jpg > > Hal > > McCain / Palin -- Just say thanks but no thanks. > They're a bridge to nowhere. > > Halvard Johnson > ================ > halvard at earthlink.net > halvard at gmail.com > http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > http://www.hamiltonstone.org > http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html > > > > On Sep 24, 2008, at 12:19 PM, JforJames at aol.com wrote: > >> Hal, >> yes, hyperlinks ensure I get randomness and sidetracking in my e- >> diet, every day. And I probably get exposed to thousands of unusual >> words (sic transit gloria mundi) in a year's time. >> But it's not the same experience you get fumbling through pages of >> a dictionary. I think in those analog encounters I take more time >> with the odd entry, looking over the subdefintions, and forms of >> the word, roots, etymology, etc. 99 out of 100 times I Google for a >> 'quick defintion', I get it and get out. But I feel there is >> something lacking in that instant gratification. Call me a >> backsliding Luddite, but I'm starting to make a more conscious >> effort to reach for the cumbersome unabridged dictionary that was >> for a time gathering dust on the shelf behind my screen. >> Finnegan >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Halvard Johnson >> Sent: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 12:44 am >> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Dictionaires???? >> >> Finnegan, you're sounding like someone who's never gone >> web-surfing. Losing randomness? Losing sidetracking? No way. >> >> Hal >> >> McCain / Palin -- Just say thanks but no thanks. >> They're a bridge to nowhere. >> >> Halvard Johnson >> ================ >> halvard at earthlink.net >> halvard at gmail.com >> http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html >> http://entropyandme.blogspot.com >> http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com >> http://www.hamiltonstone.org >> http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html >> >> >> >> On Sep 23, 2008, at 1:40 PM, JforJames at aol.com wrote: >> >>> At the risk of old-fogeyism, I want to mourn the declining use of >>> the print dictionary (or encyclopedia, for that matter). >>> Nine times out of ten, flipping thru pages, trying to find the >>> particular word/entry I was looking for (and sometimes the >>> alphabetic sequence would escape me), I'd stumble across a strange >>> or unusual word (a new world, one might say). >>> You lose some of that randomness, the sidetracking that goes on, >>> with the online versions. >>> Finnegan >>> Find phone numbers fast with the New AOL Yellow Pages! >>> _______________________________________________ >>> New-Poetry mailing list >>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> = >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> Find phone numbers fast with the New AOL Yellow Pages! >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > -- > Anny Ballardini > http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ > http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome > http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html > I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a > dancing star! > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Opus40-01 Wed Sep 24 22:54:03 2008 From: Opus40-01 (TheOldMole) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 22:54:03 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Mole Update Message-ID: <48DAFD4B.4010302@opus40.org> Situations XX -- now up at Fieralingue! Bodies are starting to pile up...will Mad Dog's be one of them? http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=Content&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=67 This also is the episode that features a couplet that rhymes on all four of the final stresses. If you can say that. Donald Justice once told us that only the last stressed syllable can be called a rhyme. The late Al Lee asked, "Then what would you call correspondences before the stress?" Justice: "Just that. Correspondences before the stress." -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ Don't forget to order your copy of FILM NOIR! http://stores.lulu.com/store.php?fAcctID=2712239 From amyhappens Thu Sep 25 07:55:39 2008 From: amyhappens (amy king) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 04:55:39 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Great poet's grave stokes Civil War dispute Message-ID: <944675.56984.qm@web83306.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080924/ap_on_re_eu/eu_spain_spain_s_missing (Via Evie Shockley) By IAIN SULLIVAN and CIARAN GILES, Associated Press Writers Wed Sep 24, 3:11 AM ET VIZNAR, Spain - The tranquil, pine-carpeted hills in this patch of southern Spain hold awful secrets. Now, one of them has been thrust into the spotlight of a still painful accounting of atrocities committed in the Spanish Civil War. _U_45779="";adx_D_45779="http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=14umcqd9f/M=682029.13006041.13215477.1442997/D=news/S=84962395:LREC/_ylt=AiSOSfOyFUfo5AHyXyDkM7pbbBAF/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1222350472/L=.MUG70wNc1hyvYnVRegyxRDzRMLlAUjbemgABvlI/B=bIDxS0wNBkY-/J=1222343272475157/A=5485445/R=0/*";adx_I_45779=""; if(window.yzq_d==null)window.yzq_d=new Object(); window.yzq_d['bIDxS0wNBkY-']='&U=13fgj3qp8%2fN%3dbIDxS0wNBkY-%2fC%3d682029.13006041.13215477.1442997%2fD%3dLREC%2fB%3d5485445%2fV%3d1'; The dispute has arisen over whether to open the grave of Federico Garcia Lorca, widely considered Spain's best 20th century poet and playwright. At the start of the 1936-39 war, Viznar, near the ancient city of Granada, became one of many execution grounds for perceived opponents of Francisco Franco, the army general who unleashed the conflict by rising up against the elected, leftist Republican government. People were rounded up, brought here and shot, their bodies dumped in a ravine in unmarked graves ? all for simply having been considered supporters of the government. Garcia Lorca was shot along with a schoolteacher named Dioscoro Galindo Gonzalez and two labor union activists ? Francisco Galadi and Juan Arcolla ? on Aug. 18, 1936. Their bodies are believed buried near an olive tree near Viznar. Lorca, dead at 38, is best known for tragedies such as "Blood Wedding" and his poetry collections "Poet in New York and "Gypsy Ballads." His work draws on universal themes ? love, death, passion, cruelty and injustice. Continued here: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080924/ap_on_re_eu/eu_spain_spain_s_missing _______ Recent work http://www.writing.upenn.edu/pennsound/x/King.html Amy's Alias http://amyking.org/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From acgold01 Thu Sep 25 11:09:16 2008 From: acgold01 (Alan C Golding) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 11:09:16 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Backwards lite Message-ID: <48DB70FB.AC48.0004.0@gwise.louisville.edu> And . . . What do you get when you play new age music backward? New age music. What do you get when you play a slasher flick backward? A bunch of teenagers get healed by a chainsaw and go camping. Relevance to poetry? Well, these little moments lighten up our pedagogy for us teacher types, don't they? Alan From anny.ballardini Thu Sep 25 13:16:37 2008 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 19:16:37 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: Woman Novelist Selected In-Reply-To: <874933.47124.qm@web54201.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <874933.47124.qm@web54201.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4b65c2d70809251016r7d6c6e75k81c7769518115754@mail.gmail.com> 25 New MacArthur Fellows Announced Out of the blue ? $500,000 ? No strings For more information Meet the 2008 Fellows [image: ?] Previous MacArthur Fellows [image: ?] Watch videos of the 2008 Fellows [image: ?] Learn more about how MacArthur Fellows are selected [image: ?] More on MacArthur In addition to selecting the MacArthur Fellows, we work to defend human rights , advance global conservationand security , make cities better places , and understand how technology is affecting children and society . September 23, 2008 MacArthur Fellows , Press Releases (Chicago, IL) ? The MacArthur Foundation today named 25 new MacArthur Fellows for 2008. This past week, the recipients learned in a single phone call from the Foundation that they will each receive $500,000 in "no strings attached" support over the next five years. The new Fellows work across a broad spectrum of endeavors and include a neurobiologist, a saxophonist, a critical care physician, an urban farmer, an optical physicist, a sculptor, a geriatrician, a historian of medicine, and an inventor of musical instruments. All were selected for their creativity, originality, and potential to make important contributions in the future. "The MacArthur Fellows Program celebrates extraordinarily creative individuals who inspire new heights in human achievement," said MacArthur President Jonathan Fanton. "With their boldness, courage, and uncommon energy, this new group of Fellows, men and women of all ages in diverse fields, exemplifies the boundless nature of the human mind and spirit." MacArthur Fellowships offer the opportunity for Fellows to accelerate their current activities or take their work in new directions. The unusual level of independence afforded to Fellows underscores the spirit of freedom intrinsic to creative endeavors. The extraordinary creativity of MacArthur Fellows knows neither boundaries nor the constraints of age, place, and endeavor. Recipients this year include: - an *astronomer* designing experiments and devices to advance understanding of the geometry of the universe and the story of both its beginning and its end (Adam Reiss); - a *neuroscientist *tracing the natural interactions of differentiating neurons, bringing us closer to developing effective methods for treating central nervous system damage (Sally Temple); - a *novelist* exploring the circumstances that lead to ethnic conflict in works inspired by events in her native Nigeria (Chimamanda Adichie); - an *inventor *of musical instruments that transform and transcend the musical experience and navigate the boundaries between live and recorded sound (Walter Kitundu); - an *urban farmer *applying low-cost technologies to the cultivation, production, and delivery of healthy foods to underserved urban populations here and abroad (Will Allen); - a *geriatrician *transforming treatment for the seriously ill into more humane and effective care (Diane Meier); - an *optical physicist *demonstrating that power can be transmitted wirelessly, opening the door to the possibility of a range of devices operating free of traditional power sources (Marin Solja?i?); - a *saxophonist *drawing from a variety of jazz idioms and the music of his native Puerto Rico to create complex, accessible sounds that overflow with emotion (Miguel Zen?n); - a *critical care physician *devising life-saving, clinical practices to improve patient safety in hospitals and spare countless lives from the deadly consequences of human error (Peter Pronovost); - a *structural engineer *restoring cathedrals and other structures of the distant past and identifying ancient technologies for use in contemporary constructions (John Ochsendorf); - a *stage lighting designer *pushing the visible boundaries of her art form with painterly lighting that evokes mood and sculpts movement in dance, drama, and opera (Jennifer Tipton); - an *anthropologist *illuminating the intellectual and emotional life of ancient Mesoamerican peoples through insightful interpretations of hieroglyphic inscriptions and figural art (Stephen Houston). "Our goal, each year, is to surprise ourselves and others by the creativity, distinctiveness, and reach of those we identify and support. We have surprised ourselves again this year. As a group, this new class of Fellows takes one's breath away. Each is an original, and each confirms that the creative individual is alive and well, at the cutting edge, and at work to make our world a better place," said Daniel J. Socolow, Director of the MacArthur Fellows Program. The MacArthur Fellows Program was the first major grantmaking initiative of the Foundation. The inaugural class of MacArthur Fellows was named in 1981. Including this year's Fellows, 781 people, ranging in age from 18 to 82 at the time of their selection, have been named MacArthur Fellows since the program began. The selection process begins with formal nominations. Hundreds of anonymous nominators assist the Foundation in identifying people to be considered for a MacArthur Fellowship. Nominations are accepted only from invited nominators, a list that is constantly renewed throughout the year. They are chosen from many areas and challenged to identify people who demonstrate exceptional creativity and promise. A 12?member Selection Committee, whose members also serve anonymously, meets regularly to review files, narrow the list, and make final recommendations to the Foundation's Board of Directors. The number of Fellows selected each year is not fixed; typically, it varies between 20 and 25.* * -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From amyhappens Thu Sep 25 15:15:26 2008 From: amyhappens (amy king) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 12:15:26 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Tomorrow Night! Bajandas, Grenier, Maxwell, Reines, Shmailo, & Virgil! [+ preview] Message-ID: <669229.95151.qm@web83303.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Friday, September 26th @ 7 p.m. - Stain Bar - Williamsburg , Brooklyn ? ** Bajandas, Grenier, Maxwell, Reines, Shmailo, & Virgil ** ? ~~~~ ? Photos/Bios here: http://thestainofpoetry.wordpress.com/2008/07/03/friday-september-26-2008-700-pm/ ? ~~~~ ? Arpine Konyalian Grenier is a poet turned scientist and musician. Her work has appeared in How2, Columbia Poetry Review, The Iowa Review, Phoebe, Big Bridge , diode and elsewhere, including several anthologies. Part, Part Euphrates (NeO Pepper Press, 2007) is her latest publication. ? ~~~~ ? Kristi Maxwell currently lives and writes in Cincinnati . She?s the author of Realm Sixty-Four (Ahsahta, 2008), Elsewhere & Wise (Dancing Girl Press, 2008), and Hush Sessions (Saturnalia, forthcoming in 2009). ? ~~~ ? Alan Bajandas was picked up hitchhiking two days ago by a pain pill-popping Italian-American bounty hunter named Jason. Jason?a self-professed Wiccan, former Marine sniper, 23-year mixed martial arts master, widower, and lover of transsexual women?was on his way to Knoxville, TN to persuade his drunk-driving father back to rehab by means of ?a very large firearm.? Jason had a heart of pure fucking gold and bought Alan a Smart Water. Alan was born and raised in Texas and will soon return to Brooklyn where he now resides. He is editor of The Open Face Sandwich, a print annual of uncommon and unpublishable prose. ? ~~~~ ? Ariana Reines is the author of The Cow (Alberta Prize, FenceBooks 2006) and Coeur de Lion (Mal-O-Mar 2007). Two volumes of translation will appear in 2009: My Heart Laid Bare by Charles Baudelaire, for Mal-O-Mar, and Carnet de bal d?une courtisane by Griselidis Real, for Semiotext(e). She is under commission with The Foundry Theatre in New York , making a play that will premiere in January 2009. ? ~~~~ ? Larissa Shmailo?s new chapbook is A Cure for Suicide (Cervena Barva Press 2008), and new poetry CD is Exorcism (SongCrew 2008). Larissa has been published in Fulcrum, Rattapallax, Drunken Boat, MiPoesias, and other publications. Larissa translated the Russian Futurist opera Victory over the Sun by A. Kruchenych; a DVD of the original English-language production is part of the collection of the New York Museum of Modern Art. She also contributed translations to the anthology Contemporary Russian Poetry published by Dalkey Archive Press. Larissa Shmailo is a director of TWiN Poetry, an informal international collective of recording poets and their listeners and a public coordinator for the annual Fulcrum. Her first poetry CD, The No-Net World (SongCrew 2006) has been heard on radio and Internet broadcasts across the U.S. and the U.K. Larissa is listed in the Poetry Kit Who?s Who in poetry. ? ~~~~ ? Erin Virgil is an MFA student at Naropa University . For money she writes the greetings in campy greeting cards and moonlights as a bad secretary. Besides the front page in a Steve McQueen calendar, she has not published any writing lately. ? ~~~~ ? stain 766 grand street brooklyn, ny 11211 (L train to Grand Street , 1 block west) 718/387-7840 open daily @ 5 p.m. ? ~~~~ ? Hosted by Amy King and Ana Bozicevic ~~~~ Boog City - Race and Poetry panel Stay tuned for the *complete* audio of the Race and Poetry panel @ PennSound [http://www.writing.upenn.edu/pennsound/x/King.html or on another page (?), waiting to hear]. In the meantime, *incomplete* video @ Blip.TV [http://amyking.blip.tv/ - better quality & only 3 long parts] or YouTube [http://www.youtube.com/user/amyhappens] with 7 shorter videos. Amy _______ Recent work http://www.writing.upenn.edu/pennsound/x/King.html Amy's Alias http://amyking.org/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jbalizsprince Thu Sep 25 16:41:07 2008 From: jbalizsprince (Judy Prince) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 16:41:07 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: Woman Novelist Selected In-Reply-To: <4b65c2d70809251016r7d6c6e75k81c7769518115754@mail.gmail.com> References: <874933.47124.qm@web54201.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <4b65c2d70809251016r7d6c6e75k81c7769518115754@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7db1d01b0809251341k46a710aao396376af0097497@mail.gmail.com> Thanks Anny! I would've missed it if you hadn't posted it to us. Am eager to check out the work of the stage lighting designer, Jennifer Tipton. Best, Judy 2008/9/25 Anny Ballardini > > > 25 New MacArthur Fellows Announced Out of the blue ? $500,000 ? No > strings For more information > > Meet the 2008 Fellows [image: ?] > > Previous MacArthur Fellows [image: ?] > > Watch videos of the 2008 Fellows [image: ?] > > Learn more about how MacArthur Fellows are selected [image: ?] > > More on MacArthur > > In addition to selecting the MacArthur Fellows, we work to defend human > rights , advance global conservationand > security , make cities better > places , and understand how technology > is affecting children and society . > > September 23, 2008 > > MacArthur Fellows , Press Releases > > (Chicago, IL) ? The MacArthur Foundation today named 25 new MacArthur > Fellows for 2008. This past week, the recipients learned in a single phone > call from the Foundation that they will each receive $500,000 in "no strings > attached" support over the next five years. The new Fellows work across a > broad spectrum of endeavors and include a neurobiologist, a saxophonist, a > critical care physician, an urban farmer, an optical physicist, a sculptor, > a geriatrician, a historian of medicine, and an inventor of musical > instruments. All were selected for their creativity, originality, and > potential to make important contributions in the future. > > "The MacArthur Fellows Program celebrates extraordinarily creative > individuals who inspire new heights in human achievement," said MacArthur > President Jonathan Fanton. "With their boldness, courage, and uncommon > energy, this new group of Fellows, men and women of all ages in diverse > fields, exemplifies the boundless nature of the human mind and spirit." > > MacArthur Fellowships offer the opportunity for Fellows to accelerate their > current activities or take their work in new directions. The unusual level > of independence afforded to Fellows underscores the spirit of freedom > intrinsic to creative endeavors. The extraordinary creativity of MacArthur > Fellows knows neither boundaries nor the constraints of age, place, and > endeavor. > > Recipients this year include: > > - an *astronomer* designing experiments and devices to advance > understanding of the geometry of the universe and the story of both its > beginning and its end (Adam Reiss); > - a *neuroscientist *tracing the natural interactions of > differentiating neurons, bringing us closer to developing effective methods > for treating central nervous system damage (Sally Temple); > - a *novelist* exploring the circumstances that lead to ethnic conflict > in works inspired by events in her native Nigeria (Chimamanda Adichie); > - an *inventor *of musical instruments that transform and transcend the > musical experience and navigate the boundaries between live and recorded > sound (Walter Kitundu); > - an *urban farmer *applying low-cost technologies to the cultivation, > production, and delivery of healthy foods to underserved urban populations > here and abroad (Will Allen); > - a *geriatrician *transforming treatment for the seriously ill into > more humane and effective care (Diane Meier); > - an *optical physicist *demonstrating that power can be transmitted > wirelessly, opening the door to the possibility of a range of devices > operating free of traditional power sources (Marin Solja?i?); > - a *saxophonist *drawing from a variety of jazz idioms and the music > of his native Puerto Rico to create complex, accessible sounds that overflow > with emotion (Miguel Zen?n); > - a *critical care physician *devising life-saving, clinical practices > to improve patient safety in hospitals and spare countless lives from the > deadly consequences of human error (Peter Pronovost); > - a *structural engineer *restoring cathedrals and other structures of > the distant past and identifying ancient technologies for use in > contemporary constructions (John Ochsendorf); > - a *stage lighting designer *pushing the visible boundaries of her art > form with painterly lighting that evokes mood and sculpts movement in dance, > drama, and opera (Jennifer Tipton); > - an *anthropologist *illuminating the intellectual and emotional life > of ancient Mesoamerican peoples through insightful interpretations of > hieroglyphic inscriptions and figural art (Stephen Houston). > > "Our goal, each year, is to surprise ourselves and others by the > creativity, distinctiveness, and reach of those we identify and support. We > have surprised ourselves again this year. As a group, this new class of > Fellows takes one's breath away. Each is an original, and each confirms that > the creative individual is alive and well, at the cutting edge, and at work > to make our world a better place," said Daniel J. Socolow, Director of the > MacArthur Fellows Program. > > The MacArthur Fellows Program was the first major grantmaking initiative of > the Foundation. The inaugural class of MacArthur Fellows was named in 1981. > Including this year's Fellows, 781 people, ranging in age from 18 to 82 at > the time of their selection, have been named MacArthur Fellows since the > program began. > > The selection process begins with formal nominations. Hundreds of anonymous > nominators assist the Foundation in identifying people to be considered for > a MacArthur Fellowship. Nominations are accepted only from invited > nominators, a list that is constantly renewed throughout the year. They are > chosen from many areas and challenged to identify people who demonstrate > exceptional creativity and promise. A 12?member Selection Committee, whose > members also serve anonymously, meets regularly to review files, narrow the > list, and make final recommendations to the Foundation's Board of Directors. > The number of Fellows selected each year is not fixed; typically, it varies > between 20 and 25.* * > > > > -- > Anny Ballardini > http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ > http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome > http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html > I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing > star! > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard Thu Sep 25 23:43:49 2008 From: halvard (Halvard Johnson) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 22:43:49 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Toot toot Message-ID: <6686290F-6ABE-4154-9BD0-6082C891DDEF@earthlink.net> My bank (WAMU) failed today, but what the hell, there's a welcome review of *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones* in the online division of the *American Book Review*: http://americanbookreview.org/PDF/LineOnline/Issue29_V6_LineOnLine.pdf Hal McCain / Palin -- Just say thanks but no thanks. They're a bridge to nowhere. Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at earthlink.net halvard at gmail.com http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jbalizsprince Fri Sep 26 05:14:54 2008 From: jbalizsprince (Judy Prince) Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2008 05:14:54 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Toot toot In-Reply-To: <6686290F-6ABE-4154-9BD0-6082C891DDEF@earthlink.net> References: <6686290F-6ABE-4154-9BD0-6082C891DDEF@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <7db1d01b0809260214p42171449pb45e80b777023603@mail.gmail.com> Keep the faith, Hal. A lovely review, by George Held [American Book Review]. Most enjoyable when he's quoting your work, naturally. My favourite quoted bit, from your _Frequent Flyer_ poems: "so I became a eunuch/afraid to show us nothing" Looks like I'll have to 'get up off a dime', and buy your book. Just two questions: 1) Is the 'cigar' sonnet in it? 2) Will you take a 20 pound GBP note? [I haven't much use for them now] Best, Judy 2008/9/25 Halvard Johnson > My bank (WAMU) failed today, but what the hell, there'sa welcome review of > *Organ Harvest with Entrance of > Clones* in the online division of the *American Book > Review*: > > http://americanbookreview.org/PDF/LineOnline/Issue29_V6_LineOnLine.pdf > > Hal > > McCain / Palin -- Just say thanks but no thanks. > They're a bridge to nowhere. > > Halvard Johnson > ================ > halvard at earthlink.net > halvard at gmail.com > http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > http://www.hamiltonstone.org > http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Opus40-01 Fri Sep 26 10:33:09 2008 From: Opus40-01 (TheOldMole) Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2008 10:33:09 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Toot toot In-Reply-To: <6686290F-6ABE-4154-9BD0-6082C891DDEF@earthlink.net> References: <6686290F-6ABE-4154-9BD0-6082C891DDEF@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <48DCF2A5.9090306@opus40.org> Great review -- way to go, Hal. Halvard Johnson wrote: > My bank (WAMU) failed today, but what the hell, there's > a welcome review of *Organ Harvest with Entrance of > Clones* in the online division of the *American Book > Review*: > > http://americanbookreview.org/PDF/LineOnline/Issue29_V6_LineOnLine.pdf > > Hal > > McCain / Palin -- Just say thanks but no thanks. > They're a bridge to nowhere. > > Halvard Johnson > ================ > halvard at earthlink.net > halvard at gmail.com > http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html > > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > > http://www.hamiltonstone.org > http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ Don't forget to order your copy of FILM NOIR! http://stores.lulu.com/store.php?fAcctID=2712239 From halvard Fri Sep 26 10:57:39 2008 From: halvard (Halvard Johnson) Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2008 09:57:39 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Toot toot In-Reply-To: <7db1d01b0809260214p42171449pb45e80b777023603@mail.gmail.com> References: <6686290F-6ABE-4154-9BD0-6082C891DDEF@earthlink.net> <7db1d01b0809260214p42171449pb45e80b777023603@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <59455AA4-57ED-47A9-83FF-6120235074D3@earthlink.net> Thanks, Judy, but to answer your questions-- No, and what's a GBP note? Hal, whose ignorance exceeds everything but his bliss McCain / Palin -- Just say thanks but no thanks. They're a bridge to nowhere. Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at earthlink.net halvard at gmail.com http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html On Sep 26, 2008, at 4:14 AM, Judy Prince wrote: > Keep the faith, Hal. > > A lovely review, by George Held [American Book Review]. Most > enjoyable when he's quoting your work, naturally. My favourite > quoted bit, from your _Frequent Flyer_ poems: "so I became a eunuch/ > afraid to show us nothing" > > Looks like I'll have to 'get up off a dime', and buy your book. > > Just two questions: 1) Is the 'cigar' sonnet in it? 2) Will you > take a 20 pound GBP note? [I haven't much use for them now] > > Best, > > Judy > > 2008/9/25 Halvard Johnson > My bank (WAMU) failed today, but what the hell, there's > a welcome review of *Organ Harvest with Entrance of > Clones* in the online division of the *American Book > Review*: > > http://americanbookreview.org/PDF/LineOnline/Issue29_V6_LineOnLine.pdf > > Hal > > McCain / Palin -- Just say thanks but no thanks. > They're a bridge to nowhere. > > Halvard Johnson > ================ > halvard at earthlink.net > halvard at gmail.com > http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > http://www.hamiltonstone.org > http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jeff.newberry Fri Sep 26 11:14:32 2008 From: jeff.newberry (Jeff Newberry) Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2008 11:14:32 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Happy Birthday, Tom Message-ID: <731bb17a0809260814v70cdeceaocc01e5312dc3ff3c@mail.gmail.com> According G.K. over at the Writer's Almanac, today is T.S. Eliot's birthday. Why not post your favorite Eliot poem? I'll also mention my favorite essay not *by* Eliot but *about *Eliot. It's by Robert Sward, though I don't remember the title. The essay is a dialogue between two Navy men, one an officer and one an enlisted man. If memory serves (it rarely does), the enlisted guy asks the officer for help in interpreting the poem. I'm pretty sure (though not certain) that they are talking about Prufrock. I'm also pretty sure that the enlisted guy is Sward himself. Here's a favorite by old Tommy Eliot: Preludes I The winter evening settles down With smell of steaks in passageways. Six o'clock. The burnt-out ends of smoky days. And now a gusty shower wraps The grimy scraps Of withered leaves about your feet And newspapers from vacant lots; The showers beat On broken blinds and chimney-pots, And at the corner of the street A lonely cab-horse steams and stamps. And then the lighting of the lamps. II The morning comes to consciousness Of faint stale smells of beer >From the sawdust-trampled street With all its muddy feet that press To early coffee-stands. With the other masquerades That time resumes, One thinks of all the hands That are raising dingy shades In a thousand furnished rooms. III You tossed a blanket from the bed, You lay upon your back, and waited; You dozed, and watched the night revealing The thousand sordid images Of which your soul was constituted; They flickered against the ceiling. And when all the world came back And the light crept up between the shutters, And you heard the sparrows in the gutters, You had such a vision of the street As the street hardly understands; Sitting along the bed's edge, where You curled the papers from your hair, Or clasped the yellow soles of feet In the palms of both soiled hands. IV His soul stretched tight across the skies That fade behind a city block, Or trampled by insistent feet At four and five and six o'clock; And short square fingers stuffing pipes, And evening newspapers, and eyes Assured of certain certainties, The conscience of a blackened street Impatient to assume the world. I am moved by fancies that are curled Around these images, and cling: The notion of some infinitely gentle Infinitely suffering thing. Wipe your hand across your mouth, and laugh; The worlds revolve like ancient women Gathering fuel in vacant lots. Best, Jeff Newberry -- Blog: http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com Obama Myths: http://www.matthew25.org/paf/index.htm -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd Fri Sep 26 11:19:08 2008 From: grahamd (David Graham) Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2008 10:19:08 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Happy Birthday, Tom In-Reply-To: <731bb17a0809260814v70cdeceaocc01e5312dc3ff3c@mail.gmail.com> References: <731bb17a0809260814v70cdeceaocc01e5312dc3ff3c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: That'd be my favorite TSE poem, Jeff, that you just posted. But he had some other good ones. Here's another, rarely anthologized early piece: Morning at the Window They are rattling breakfast plates in basement kitchens, And along the trampled edges of the street I am aware of the damp souls of housemaids Sprouting despondently at area gates. The brown waves of fog toss up to me Twisted faces from the bottom of the street, And tear from a passer-by with muddy skirts An aimless smile that hovers in the air And vanishes along the level of the roofs. ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.mac.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== On Sep 26, 2008, at 10:14 AM, Jeff Newberry wrote: > According G.K. over at the Writer's Almanac, today is T.S. Eliot's > birthday. > > Why not post your favorite Eliot poem? > > I'll also mention my favorite essay not by Eliot but about Eliot. > It's by Robert Sward, though I don't remember the title. The essay > is a dialogue between two Navy men, one an officer and one an > enlisted man. If memory serves (it rarely does), the enlisted guy > asks the officer for help in interpreting the poem. I'm pretty > sure (though not certain) that they are talking about Prufrock. > I'm also pretty sure that the enlisted guy is Sward himself. > > Here's a favorite by old Tommy Eliot: > > Preludes > I > > The winter evening settles down -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jbalizsprince Fri Sep 26 13:12:31 2008 From: jbalizsprince (Judy Prince) Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2008 13:12:31 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Toot toot In-Reply-To: <59455AA4-57ED-47A9-83FF-6120235074D3@earthlink.net> References: <6686290F-6ABE-4154-9BD0-6082C891DDEF@earthlink.net> <7db1d01b0809260214p42171449pb45e80b777023603@mail.gmail.com> <59455AA4-57ED-47A9-83FF-6120235074D3@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <7db1d01b0809261012w7ee26855ve45b87dba831c4b6@mail.gmail.com> Hal, if you'll inscribe my copy of your book with the cigar sonnet, no problem. In fact, here's an incentive, my very own Shaksperean sonnet to you: GBP DISAMBIGUATION I thought that I would never, you see, see despite your incoming code and their adjacent vertices a poem as lovely as an exact algorithm for your tree--- all leaf thoughts for each near leaf's purposes your Game Boy Pocket, gain bandwidth product your generalised belief propagation of Green Bay Packers caught up in a ginger beer plant aggregation . . . I'd not ever, nor you, have guessed, oh damn, with all your leafy cluster verger-y and the popular Gun Buyback Program you'd now need gastric bypass surgery but, then, pound for pound you're a sterling soul minimised by Bush, maximized by O [bama]. ------------- Hon. joodles 2008/9/26 Halvard Johnson > Thanks, Judy, but to answer your questions-- No, andwhat's a GBP note? > > Hal, whose ignorance exceeds everything but his bliss > > McCain / Palin -- Just say thanks but no thanks. > They're a bridge to nowhere. > > Halvard Johnson > ================ > halvard at earthlink.net > halvard at gmail.com > http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > http://www.hamiltonstone.org > http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html > > > > On Sep 26, 2008, at 4:14 AM, Judy Prince wrote: > > Keep the faith, Hal. > A lovely review, by George Held [American Book Review]. Most enjoyable > when he's quoting your work, naturally. My favourite quoted bit, from your > _Frequent Flyer_ poems: "so I became a eunuch/afraid to show us nothing" > > Looks like I'll have to 'get up off a dime', and buy your book. > > Just two questions: 1) Is the 'cigar' sonnet in it? 2) Will you take a > 20 pound GBP note? [I haven't much use for them now] > > Best, > > Judy > > 2008/9/25 Halvard Johnson > >> My bank (WAMU) failed today, but what the hell, there'sa welcome review >> of *Organ Harvest with Entrance of >> Clones* in the online division of the *American Book >> Review*: >> >> http://americanbookreview.org/PDF/LineOnline/Issue29_V6_LineOnLine.pdf >> >> Hal >> >> McCain / Palin -- Just say thanks but no thanks. >> They're a bridge to nowhere. >> >> Halvard Johnson >> ================ >> halvard at earthlink.net >> halvard at gmail.com >> http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html >> http://entropyandme.blogspot.com >> http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com >> http://www.hamiltonstone.org >> http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini Fri Sep 26 13:29:07 2008 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2008 19:29:07 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Toot toot In-Reply-To: <48DCF2A5.9090306@opus40.org> References: <6686290F-6ABE-4154-9BD0-6082C891DDEF@earthlink.net> <48DCF2A5.9090306@opus40.org> Message-ID: <4b65c2d70809261029k579312ccj9fe2c3fe2ba52a13@mail.gmail.com> Yes, it made today's news on my blog. Great and congratulations, Anny On Fri, Sep 26, 2008 at 4:33 PM, TheOldMole wrote: > Great review -- way to go, Hal. > > Halvard Johnson wrote: > >> My bank (WAMU) failed today, but what the hell, there's >> a welcome review of *Organ Harvest with Entrance of >> Clones* in the online division of the *American Book >> Review*: >> >> http://americanbookreview.org/PDF/LineOnline/Issue29_V6_LineOnLine.pdf >> >> Hal >> >> McCain / Palin -- Just say thanks but no thanks. >> They're a bridge to nowhere. >> >> Halvard Johnson >> ================ >> halvard at earthlink.net >> halvard at gmail.com >> http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html< >> http://home.earthlink.net/%7Ehalvard/index.html> >> http://entropyandme.blogspot.com >> http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com < >> http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com/> >> http://www.hamiltonstone.org >> http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html< >> http://home.earthlink.net/%7Ehalvard/vidalocabooks.html> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > > -- > Tad Richards > http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ > http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ > > Don't forget to order your copy of FILM NOIR! > http://stores.lulu.com/store.php?fAcctID=2712239 > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini Fri Sep 26 14:53:24 2008 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2008 20:53:24 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Pleased to introduce you Message-ID: <4b65c2d70809261153r7be1f044jceceae4a7e800ae4@mail.gmail.com> to my friend Connie Reader, forwarding: I'm not expecting an academy award... Washington,We're Watching Youtube At least I'm learning a movie editing program ;). Sort of. Baby steps... xo C -- www.conradreeder.com www.venusalovestory.com -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From by.tjmst Fri Sep 26 15:25:41 2008 From: by.tjmst (BY TJMST) Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2008 20:25:41 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: New-Poetry Digest, Vol 51, Issue 40 In-Reply-To: <200809251600.m8PG02nK016498@wiz.cath.vt.edu> References: <200809251600.m8PG02nK016498@wiz.cath.vt.edu> Message-ID: <5908b9b20809261225s7ce06f9i4dc942f576fc595c@mail.gmail.com> re: CHIMAMANDA N.Adichie - -Nigerian novelist writing in the USA-.I join other well-wishers globally congratulating this evidently talented culturally alert,intellectually glorious and decolonized writer.I hope she would continue building her avalanche of literary glory possibly towards a Nobel prize before she becomes a A FINESSE AT FORTY!...This is not just impossible -in terms of monetary value -she would win the equivalent of a Nobel award -except that eligibility for the latter is more to writers and scientists enmeshed in proxy developmental, civic advocacy in addition to the excellence integral in their works.Being a genius though precocious writer CHIMAMANDA ADICHIE would surely produce more works that will impact on social justice and equity using the idiom and other weapons of a social writer with historical compassion.I heartily felicitate with her prodigy and her unique identity she 's already forging as a gifted Nigerian.There's another self made heroine FALILAT OGUNKOYA - an Olympic gold medalist athlete of delight whose generous spirit championed a Foundation for the less priviledged as well as the talented in any areas of endeavour..I 'm so optimistic that Chima 's serious works till date -PURPLE HIBISCUS -which not only won Orange Prize in UK but also generate a lot of tacit 'argument between the Judges will witness more unexpected rewards and turn out to be a way shower to upcoming talents back home in Nigeria,There 's a maze of neglect down here.However a few are undaunted to be and become despite the wet blanket habitat-just as i reechoed in VIC HEALTH GRANTS PROGRAMMES FOR THE ARTS & COMMUNITY COMMUNICATION barely 30 hours ago or so.The truth evident in Chima's literary productivity will prevail presently.. Stephen Moss 's interview amplified this in the 2007 internet report of this appropriately melanin Nigerian novelist. I'm not surprised that she can also be suddenly -- albeit justly blessedwith USD500,000.00 by The McCarthur Foundation-as a special boostto her literary works including the locally and widelyreviewed HALF OF A YELLOW SUN -a critical memoir as well as a mere slice of The Biafran war in the 70s.Another point of appeal about McCARTHUR FELLOW SUPPORT PROGRAM MES is the very wide area of endeavour that she boost ongoing and advanced original works to enhance humanity's convivial and better living -in the same way PAUL HARRIS ,founder of ROTARY INTERNATIONAL envisioned that ethics and moral values -no matter what genre of professionlal leadership or apprenticeship man or woman is engaged in -is fundamental to productive service -and friendship has multiplier effect on this in any societyFELICITATIONS AGAIN AND AGAIN ....FROM GBEMI TIJANI MSTCONVENER DEVELOPMENT FRIENDLY FOUNDATION On 9/25/08, new-poetry-request at wiz.cath.vt.edu wrote:> Send New-Poetry mailing list submissions to> new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to> new-poetry-request at wiz.cath.vt.edu>> You can reach the person managing the list at> new-poetry-owner at wiz.cath.vt.edu>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific> than "Re: Contents of New-Poetry digest...">>> Today's Topics:>> 1. Backwards lite (Alan C Golding)> 2. Fwd: Woman Novelist Selected (Anny Ballardini)>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------->> Message: 1> Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 11:09:16 -0400> From: Alan C Golding > Subject: [New-Poetry] Backwards lite> To: > Message-ID: <48DB70FB.AC48.0004.0 at gwise.louisville.edu>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII">> And . . .>> What do you get when you play new age music backward?>> New age music.>> What do you get when you play a slasher flick backward?>> A bunch of teenagers get healed by a chainsaw and go camping.>> Relevance to poetry? Well, these little moments lighten up our pedagogy for> us teacher types, don't they?>> Alan>>>>>> ------------------------------>> Message: 2> Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 19:16:37 +0200> From: "Anny Ballardini" > Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: Woman Novelist Selected> To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &, Views"> > Message-ID:> <4b65c2d70809251016r7d6c6e75k81c7769518115754 at mail.gmail.com>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8">> 25 New MacArthur Fellows Announced Out of the blue ? $500,000 ? No strings> For> more information>> Meet the 2008 Fellows [image: ?] >> Previous MacArthur Fellows [image:> ?]>> Watch videos of the 2008 Fellows [image:> ?]>> Learn more about how MacArthur Fellows are selected [image:> ?]>> More on MacArthur>> In addition to selecting the MacArthur Fellows, we work to defend human> rights , advance global> conservationand> security , make cities better> places , and understand how> technology> is affecting children and society .>> September 23, 2008>> MacArthur Fellows , Press> Releases>> (Chicago, IL) ? The MacArthur Foundation today named 25 new MacArthur> Fellows for 2008. This past week, the recipients learned in a single phone> call from the Foundation that they will each receive $500,000 in "no strings> attached" support over the next five years. The new Fellows work across a> broad spectrum of endeavors and include a neurobiologist, a saxophonist, a> critical care physician, an urban farmer, an optical physicist, a sculptor,> a geriatrician, a historian of medicine, and an inventor of musical> instruments. All were selected for their creativity, originality, and> potential to make important contributions in the future.>> "The MacArthur Fellows Program celebrates extraordinarily creative> individuals who inspire new heights in human achievement," said MacArthur> President Jonathan Fanton. "With their boldness, courage, and uncommon> energy, this new group of Fellows, men and women of all ages in diverse> fields, exemplifies the boundless nature of the human mind and spirit.">> MacArthur Fellowships offer the opportunity for Fellows to accelerate their> current activities or take their work in new directions. The unusual level> of independence afforded to Fellows underscores the spirit of freedom> intrinsic to creative endeavors. The extraordinary creativity of MacArthur> Fellows knows neither boundaries nor the constraints of age, place, and> endeavor.>> Recipients this year include:>> - an *astronomer* designing experiments and devices to advance> understanding of the geometry of the universe and the story of both its> beginning and its end (Adam Reiss);> - a *neuroscientist *tracing the natural interactions of differentiating> neurons, bringing us closer to developing effective methods for treating> central nervous system damage (Sally Temple);> - a *novelist* exploring the circumstances that lead to ethnic conflict> in works inspired by events in her native Nigeria (Chimamanda Adichie);> - an *inventor *of musical instruments that transform and transcend the> musical experience and navigate the boundaries between live and recorded> sound (Walter Kitundu);> - an *urban farmer *applying low-cost technologies to the cultivation,> production, and delivery of healthy foods to underserved urban> populations> here and abroad (Will Allen);> - a *geriatrician *transforming treatment for the seriously ill into more> humane and effective care (Diane Meier);> - an *optical physicist *demonstrating that power can be transmitted> wirelessly, opening the door to the possibility of a range of devices> operating free of traditional power sources (Marin Solja?i?);> - a *saxophonist *drawing from a variety of jazz idioms and the music of> his native Puerto Rico to create complex, accessible sounds that overflow> with emotion (Miguel Zen?n);> - a *critical care physician *devising life-saving, clinical practices to> improve patient safety in hospitals and spare countless lives from the> deadly consequences of human error (Peter Pronovost);> - a *structural engineer *restoring cathedrals and other structures of> the distant past and identifying ancient technologies for use in> contemporary constructions (John Ochsendorf);> - a *stage lighting designer *pushing the visible boundaries of her art> form with painterly lighting that evokes mood and sculpts movement in> dance,> drama, and opera (Jennifer Tipton);> - an *anthropologist *illuminating the intellectual and emotional life of> ancient Mesoamerican peoples through insightful interpretations of> hieroglyphic inscriptions and figural art (Stephen Houston).>> "Our goal, each year, is to surprise ourselves and others by the creativity,> distinctiveness, and reach of those we identify and support. We have> surprised ourselves again this year. As a group, this new class of Fellows> takes one's breath away. Each is an original, and each confirms that the> creative individual is alive and well, at the cutting edge, and at work to> make our world a better place," said Daniel J. Socolow, Director of the> MacArthur Fellows Program.>> The MacArthur Fellows Program was the first major grantmaking initiative of> the Foundation. The inaugural class of MacArthur Fellows was named in 1981.> Including this year's Fellows, 781 people, ranging in age from 18 to 82 at> the time of their selection, have been named MacArthur Fellows since the> program began.>> The selection process begins with formal nominations. Hundreds of anonymous> nominators assist the Foundation in identifying people to be considered for> a MacArthur Fellowship. Nominations are accepted only from invited> nominators, a list that is constantly renewed throughout the year. They are> chosen from many areas and challenged to identify people who demonstrate> exceptional creativity and promise. A 12?member Selection Committee, whose> members also serve anonymously, meets regularly to review files, narrow the> list, and make final recommendations to the Foundation's Board of Directors.> The number of Fellows selected each year is not fixed; typically, it varies> between 20 and 25.* *>>>> --> Anny Ballardini> http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/> http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome> http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html> I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing> star!> -------------- next part --------------> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...> URL:> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080925/95f965d4/attachment-0001.html>> ------------------------------>> _______________________________________________> New-Poetry mailing list> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry>>> End of New-Poetry Digest, Vol 51, Issue 40> ******************************************> From halvard Fri Sep 26 15:31:51 2008 From: halvard (Halvard Johnson) Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2008 14:31:51 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Toot toot In-Reply-To: <4b65c2d70809261029k579312ccj9fe2c3fe2ba52a13@mail.gmail.com> References: <6686290F-6ABE-4154-9BD0-6082C891DDEF@earthlink.net> <48DCF2A5.9090306@opus40.org> <4b65c2d70809261029k579312ccj9fe2c3fe2ba52a13@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Hey, thanks, Anny. Hal McCain / Palin -- Just say thanks but no thanks. They're a bridge to nowhere. Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at earthlink.net halvard at gmail.com http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html On Sep 26, 2008, at 12:29 PM, Anny Ballardini wrote: > Yes, it made today's news on my blog. Great and congratulations, > Anny > > On Fri, Sep 26, 2008 at 4:33 PM, TheOldMole > wrote: > Great review -- way to go, Hal. > > Halvard Johnson wrote: > My bank (WAMU) failed today, but what the hell, there's > a welcome review of *Organ Harvest with Entrance of > Clones* in the online division of the *American Book > Review*: > > http://americanbookreview.org/PDF/LineOnline/Issue29_V6_LineOnLine.pdf > > Hal > > McCain / Palin -- Just say thanks but no thanks. > They're a bridge to nowhere. > > Halvard Johnson > ================ > halvard at earthlink.net > halvard at gmail.com > http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html > > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > > http://www.hamiltonstone.org > http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > -- > Tad Richards > http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ > http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ > > Don't forget to order your copy of FILM NOIR! > http://stores.lulu.com/store.php?fAcctID=2712239 > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > -- > Anny Ballardini > http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ > http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome > http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html > I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a > dancing star! > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini Fri Sep 26 17:22:23 2008 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2008 23:22:23 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] also tooting a little Message-ID: <4b65c2d70809261422o622fd756u218963092f23e59e@mail.gmail.com> A little because the answer I gave was written several months ago, and the poem is UR-ancient, :-) thanal online Farideh Hassanzadeh-Mostafavi interviews me and several other poets on the Persona Poem, on thanal online: Here is her introduction, and my page -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Opus40-01 Fri Sep 26 18:03:06 2008 From: Opus40-01 (TheOldMole) Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2008 18:03:06 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] also tooting a little In-Reply-To: <4b65c2d70809261422o622fd756u218963092f23e59e@mail.gmail.com> References: <4b65c2d70809261422o622fd756u218963092f23e59e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <48DD5C1A.4030008@opus40.org> I've just been asked to do a one-day workshop on persona, so I'm thinking a lot about it. I appreciated reading your interview. Anny Ballardini wrote: > A little because the answer I gave was written several months ago, and > the poem is UR-ancient, :-) > > > thanal online > > > > > Farideh Hassanzadeh-Mostafavi interviews me and several other poets on > the Persona Poem, on thanal online: > Here is her introduction, > > and my page > > > -- > Anny Ballardini > http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ > http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome > http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html > I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a > dancing star! > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ Don't forget to order your copy of FILM NOIR! http://stores.lulu.com/store.php?fAcctID=2712239 From JforJames Sat Sep 27 11:24:24 2008 From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2008 11:24:24 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] subprime poetry crisis Message-ID: _http://gawker.com/5055610/what-the-subprime-poetry-crisis-means-for-the-overh eated-metapor-market_ (http://gawker.com/5055610/what-the-subprime-poetry-crisis-means-for-the-overheated-metapor-market) Last night at a poetry reading marking the release of the 2008 Best American Poetry anthology the distinguished poet and Finding Forrester star Charles Bernstein delivered a stirring plea for swift intervention to stave off the subprime poetry crisis. "As we know, lax composition practices since the advent of modernism led to irresponsible poets and irresponsible readers," he said. "Simply put, too many poets composed works they could not justify." (Read the whole thing **************Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and calculators. (http://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd Sat Sep 27 12:36:50 2008 From: grahamd (David Graham) Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2008 11:36:50 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] R.I.P. Paul Newman Message-ID: This Is Not an Elegy At sixteen, I was illegal and brilliant, my fingernails chewed to half-moons. I took off my clothes in a late March field. I had secret car wrecks, secret hysteria. I opened my mouth to swallow stars. In backseats I learned the alchemy of guilt, lust, and distance. I was unformed and total. I swore like a sailor. But slowly the cops stopped coming around. The heat lifted its palms. The radio lost some teeth. Now I see the landscape behind me as through a Claude glass? tinted deeper, framed just so, bits of gilt edging the best parts. I see my unlined face, a thousand film stars behind the eyes. I was every murderess, every whip- thin alcoholic, every heroine with the silver tongue. Always young Paul Newman?s best girl. Always a lightning sky behind each kiss. Some days I watch myself in the third person, speak to her in the second. I say: I will meet you in sleep. I will know you by your stillness and your shaking. By your second-hand gown. By your bruises left by mouths since forgotten. This is not an elegy because I cannot bear for it to be. It is only a tree branch against the window. It is only a cherry tomato slowly reddening in the garden. I will put it in my mouth. It will be sweet, and you will swallow. --Catherine Pierce. Blackbird 5.1 (Spring 2006). http://www.blackbird.vcu.edu/v5n1/poetry/pierce_c/elegy_print.htm ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.mac.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini Sat Sep 27 13:30:15 2008 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2008 19:30:15 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] R.I.P. Paul Newman In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4b65c2d70809271030h644f036dof8a3479217e66ce5@mail.gmail.com> a great poem, thanks. On Sat, Sep 27, 2008 at 6:36 PM, David Graham wrote: > * * > *This Is Not an Elegy* > > At sixteen, I was illegal and brilliant, > my fingernails chewed to half-moons. > I took off my clothes in a late March > field. I had secret car wrecks, > secret hysteria. I opened my mouth > to swallow stars. In backseats > I learned the alchemy of guilt, lust, > and distance. I was unformed and total. > I swore like a sailor. But slowly the cops > stopped coming around. The heat lifted > its palms. The radio lost some teeth. > > Now I see the landscape behind me > as through a Claude glass? > tinted deeper, framed just so, bits > of gilt edging the best parts. > I see my unlined face, a thousand > film stars behind the eyes. I was > every murderess, every whip- > thin alcoholic, every heroine > with the silver tongue. Always young > Paul Newman's best girl. Always > a lightning sky behind each kiss. > > Some days I watch myself > in the third person, speak to her > in the second. I say: I will > meet you in sleep. I will know you > by your stillness and your shaking. > By your second-hand gown. > By your bruises left by mouths > since forgotten. This is not > an elegy because I cannot bear > for it to be. It is only a tree branch > against the window. It is only a cherry > tomato slowly reddening in the garden. > I will put it in my mouth. It will > be sweet, and you will swallow. > > --Catherine Pierce. *Blackbird* 5.1 (Spring 2006). > http://www.blackbird.vcu.edu/v5n1/poetry/pierce_c/elegy_print.htm > > > > ======================================== > David Graham > grahamd at ripon.edu > > Home Page: > http://web.mac.com/drjazz > > Poetry Library: > http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html > ========================================== > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini Sat Sep 27 13:36:35 2008 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2008 19:36:35 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] subprime poetry crisis In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4b65c2d70809271036iaaac294he430e7f94ea6e061@mail.gmail.com> We are convinced that once we have removed these troubled and distressed poems from circulation, our cultural sector will stabilize and readers will regain confidence in American literature. We estimate that for the buyout to be successful, we will need to remove from circulation all poems written after 1904. This will be a fresh start, a new dawn of a new day. Without these illiquid poems threatening to overwhelm readers, we will be able to create a literary culture with a solid aesthetic foundation. I'm Charles Bernstein, and I approved this message. http://harpers.org/archive/2008/09/hbc-90003617 On Sat, Sep 27, 2008 at 5:24 PM, wrote: > > http://gawker.com/5055610/what-the-subprime-poetry-crisis-means-for-the-overheated-metapor-market > > Last night at a poetry reading marking the release of the 2008 Best > American Poetry anthology the distinguished poet and Finding Forrester star > Charles Bernstein delivered a stirring plea for swift intervention to stave > off the subprime poetry crisis. "As we know, lax composition practices since > the advent of modernism led to irresponsible poets and irresponsible > readers," he said. "Simply put, too many poets composed works they could not > justify." (Read the whole thing > > > > ------------------------------ > Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges? Check > out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and calculators > . > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Opus40-01 Sat Sep 27 14:32:23 2008 From: Opus40-01 (TheOldMole) Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2008 14:32:23 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] subprime poetry crisis In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <48DE7C37.8070303@opus40.org> This is great. JforJames at aol.com wrote: > http://gawker.com/5055610/what-the-subprime-poetry-crisis-means-for-the-overheated-metapor-market > > Last night at a poetry reading marking the release of the 2008 Best > American Poetry anthology the distinguished poet and Finding Forrester > star Charles Bernstein delivered a stirring plea for swift > intervention to stave off the subprime poetry crisis. "As we know, lax > composition practices since the advent of modernism led to > irresponsible poets and irresponsible readers," he said. "Simply put, > too many poets composed works they could not justify." (Read the whole > thing > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges? > Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and > calculators > . > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ Don't forget to order your copy of FILM NOIR! http://stores.lulu.com/store.php?fAcctID=2712239 From cervantes.james Sun Sep 28 09:12:40 2008 From: cervantes.james (James Cervantes) Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2008 06:12:40 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Toot: fwd: Announcing Tata Nacho Press Message-ID: <648208b60809280612j1686a9dg59894becb0fa44cd@mail.gmail.com> Celebrate our first issue of Tata Nacho Press http://www.tatanacho.wordpress.com Hank Lazer's poems from:Notebook 7 introspect, inspect, respect and circumspect a level of consciousness I find leads well into this concept of Poetry Noir. We look at "is-ing" and in is-ing, we find the bodies. Sometimes, as in James Cervantes work, he leads us to the torso. In Jake Berry's work, sometimes the body is reposing, supposing, decomposing... Hank Lazer >From The Notebooks (of Being & Time) [VII / 96] [VII / 100] Jake Berry Penumbra and Elusion Rising James Cervantes Cone of Uncertainty and Rides Allen Ginsberg said, "Fortunately art is a community effort --a small but select community living in a spiritualized world endeavoring to interpret the wars and the solitudes of the flesh." Tata Nacho welcomes Mitch Sommers, fiction writer and columnist to provide direction on non fiction, fiction, and prose on Tata Nacho. Mitchell Sommers would like to say that he grew up in a log cabin, but given that there were very few of those standing in late 1950's Pittsburgh, he'll have to settle for more pedestrian claims. He is an attorney in Lancaster, PA, where his practice concentrates in bankruptcy and debtor/creditor rights which, in today's economy, is a little like being an oncologist living near a toxic waste dump. He is a 2006 M.F.A. graduate of the low residency program at University of New Orleans in creative fiction, although his legal colleagues have accused him of writing fiction for years. He is currently working on a novel. -- Jesse Loren http://www.tatanacho.wordpress.com http://mourningsicknessbook.blogspot.com/ http://www.omniartsllc.com/bombshells.asp -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning http://www.fieralingue.it/documenti/mr_bondo.pdf http://www.poetserv.org/jvc/home/index.html http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamescervantes/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From GrahamD Sun Sep 28 11:01:02 2008 From: GrahamD (David Graham) Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2008 10:01:02 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Rebirth of a Suicidal Genius Message-ID: <6412CF88-0AB2-4879-A852-E524CC456159@ripon.edu> Very interesting essay by Lucie Brock-Broido on the poet Thomas James, who killed himself in 1974, and whose one and only book of poems has recently been reissued by Graywolf: http://poetryfoundation.org/journal/feature.html?id=182295 Graywolf has begun a series of reclaiming out of print books of poetry. Hooray for them. Now I wish they'd re-publish one of their own: Christopher Gilbert's *Across the Mutual Landscape*, which came out from Graywolf in 1983 and has been unavailable for a very long time. Until such time as it's reprinted, I note that you can find used copies of this terrific book for as little as 21 cents on Amazon. Highly recommended. ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.mac.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From AlMaginnes Sun Sep 28 12:25:09 2008 From: AlMaginnes (AlMaginnes at aol.com) Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2008 12:25:09 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Rebirth of a Suicidal Genius Message-ID: The book is out there. I picked up the Graywolf reprint a few months ago. Great book; I hope it brings some recognition to an overlooked poet. **************Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and calculators. (http://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From AlMaginnes Sun Sep 28 12:30:57 2008 From: AlMaginnes (AlMaginnes at aol.com) Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2008 12:30:57 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Rebirth of a Suicidal Genius Message-ID: I meant James's book is out there. I overlooked the last couple of sentences on David's email. It might be an interesting exercise for us to try and compile a lst of out of print poetry volumes that deserve to be printed again. Anyone? **************Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and calculators. (http://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd Sun Sep 28 12:35:06 2008 From: grahamd (David Graham) Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2008 11:35:06 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Rebirth of a Suicidal Genius In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8792736E-235C-46D2-9A25-0CB876678CED@ripon.edu> Yes, the Brock-Broido essay I linked to is, in fact, the introduction to the reprinted James book. Along with Chris Gilbert's one and only book, my top picks for badly- in-need-of-reprinting volumes would include any of Laura Jensen's, but most especially *Bad Boats*. I do believe Carnegie-Mellon, in their wonderful reprint series, has re-issued Jensen's *Memory*, at least. ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.mac.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== On Sep 28, 2008, at 11:30 AM, AlMaginnes at aol.com wrote: > I meant James's book is out there. I overlooked the last couple of > sentences on David's email. It might be an interesting exercise for > us to try and compile a lst of out of print poetry volumes that > deserve to be printed again. Anyone? > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Opus40-01 Sun Sep 28 16:30:35 2008 From: Opus40-01 (TheOldMole) Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2008 16:30:35 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] waiting for clarification Message-ID: <48DFE96B.3060007@opus40.org> Anyone know anything about this? I found, through a Google update, that I am to be included in a 4000-page online anthology from forgodot.com Every comment on this site -- including mine -- is the same. Wha...? What anthology? Who gave you permission to use my poem? -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ Don't forget to order your copy of FILM NOIR! http://stores.lulu.com/store.php?fAcctID=2712239 From grahamd Sun Sep 28 16:41:00 2008 From: grahamd (David Graham) Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2008 15:41:00 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: waiting for clarification In-Reply-To: <48DFE96B.3060007@opus40.org> References: <48DFE96B.3060007@opus40.org> Message-ID: Holy cow! My name is there, too. They don't even reveal which poem they are pilfering. . . . Hmmmm. ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.mac.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== On Sep 28, 2008, at 3:30 PM, TheOldMole wrote: > Anyone know anything about this? > > I found, through a Google update, that I am to be included in a > 4000-page online anthology from forgodot.com > > Every comment on this site -- including mine -- is the same. > Wha...? What anthology? Who gave you permission to use my poem? > > > -- > Tad Richards > http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ > http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Opus40-01 Sun Sep 28 16:47:54 2008 From: Opus40-01 (TheOldMole) Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2008 16:47:54 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: waiting for clarification In-Reply-To: References: <48DFE96B.3060007@opus40.org> Message-ID: <48DFED7A.5080509@opus40.org> Along with some names like Jack Spicer and Jean Valentine. Did you read the comments at the bottom? No one seems to know anything about this. I liked the idea that it was a ploy to see how many poets use Google Alert. David Graham wrote: > Holy cow! My name is there, too. They don't even reveal which poem > they are pilfering. . . . > > Hmmmm. > > > > > ======================================== > David Graham > grahamd at ripon.edu > > Home Page: > http://web.mac.com/drjazz > > Poetry Library: > http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html > ========================================== > > > > > On Sep 28, 2008, at 3:30 PM, TheOldMole wrote: > >> Anyone know anything about this? >> >> I found, through a Google update, that I am to be included in a >> 4000-page online anthology from forgodot.com >> >> Every comment on this site -- including mine -- is the same. Wha...? >> What anthology? Who gave you permission to use my poem? >> >> >> -- >> Tad Richards >> http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ >> http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ >> >> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ Don't forget to order your copy of FILM NOIR! http://stores.lulu.com/store.php?fAcctID=2712239 From anny.ballardini Sun Sep 28 17:01:50 2008 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2008 23:01:50 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: waiting for clarification In-Reply-To: <48DFED7A.5080509@opus40.org> References: <48DFE96B.3060007@opus40.org> <48DFED7A.5080509@opus40.org> Message-ID: <4b65c2d70809281401u1bd74fd9k9ab093b0ace76792@mail.gmail.com> holy potato I am there too: ..., Jude MacDonald, Anny Ballardini, Cassie Lewis, ... On Sun, Sep 28, 2008 at 10:47 PM, TheOldMole wrote: > Along with some names like Jack Spicer and Jean Valentine. Did you read the > comments at the bottom? No one seems to know anything about this. I liked > the idea that it was a ploy to see how many poets use Google Alert. > > David Graham wrote: > >> Holy cow! My name is there, too. They don't even reveal which poem they >> are pilfering. . . . >> >> Hmmmm. >> >> >> >> >> ======================================== >> David Graham >> grahamd at ripon.edu >> >> Home Page: >> http://web.mac.com/drjazz >> >> Poetry Library: >> http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html >> ========================================== >> >> >> >> >> On Sep 28, 2008, at 3:30 PM, TheOldMole wrote: >> >> Anyone know anything about this? >>> >>> I found, through a Google update, that I am to be included in a 4000-page >>> online anthology from forgodot.com >>> >>> Every comment on this site -- including mine -- is the same. Wha...? What >>> anthology? Who gave you permission to use my poem? >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Tad Richards >>> http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ >>> http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > > -- > Tad Richards > http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ > http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ > > Don't forget to order your copy of FILM NOIR! > http://stores.lulu.com/store.php?fAcctID=2712239 > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cervantes.james Sun Sep 28 17:22:24 2008 From: cervantes.james (James Cervantes) Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2008 14:22:24 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] waiting for clarification In-Reply-To: <48DFE96B.3060007@opus40.org> References: <48DFE96B.3060007@opus40.org> Message-ID: <648208b60809281422h225456d8nafb3daf473ae627b@mail.gmail.com> Jumpin Jehosaphat! I'm in there under "and many more . . ." - Jim, a.k.a. "anon" On Sun, Sep 28, 2008 at 1:30 PM, TheOldMole wrote: > Anyone know anything about this? > > I found, through a Google update, that I am to be included in a 4000-page > online anthology from forgodot.com > > Every comment on this site -- including mine -- is the same. Wha...? What > anthology? Who gave you permission to use my poem? > > > -- > Tad Richards > http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ > http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ > > Don't forget to order your copy of FILM NOIR! > http://stores.lulu.com/store.php?fAcctID=2712239 > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman Sun Sep 28 18:37:39 2008 From: bobgrumman (Bob Grumman) Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2008 17:37:39 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] waiting for clarification In-Reply-To: <648208b60809281422h225456d8nafb3daf473ae627b@mail.gmail.com> References: <48DFE96B.3060007@opus40.org> <648208b60809281422h225456d8nafb3daf473ae627b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <48E00733.4000709@nut-n-but.net> James Cervantes wrote: > Jumpin Jehosaphat! I'm in there under "and many more . . ." > Nuts, I didn't see that. I'm not listed, which I was feeling pretty good about. I mean, who wants to be on a list Anny B. is on! (Sorry, Anny, but it reminded me that I haven't insulted you for a while.) --Bob G. From anny.ballardini Sun Sep 28 17:37:34 2008 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2008 23:37:34 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] waiting for clarification In-Reply-To: <48E00733.4000709@nut-n-but.net> References: <48DFE96B.3060007@opus40.org> <648208b60809281422h225456d8nafb3daf473ae627b@mail.gmail.com> <48E00733.4000709@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <4b65c2d70809281437t7bf76d3cp8cfb127bb4dd505a@mail.gmail.com> Here's Our Bob! Where have you been for such a long time_ I'm sure you were on holiday and you just forgot about this lot of working people. That is what you did. On Mon, Sep 29, 2008 at 12:37 AM, Bob Grumman wrote: > James Cervantes wrote: > >> Jumpin Jehosaphat! I'm in there under "and many more . . ." >> >> Nuts, I didn't see that. I'm not listed, which I was feeling pretty good > about. I mean, who wants to be on a list Anny B. is on! (Sorry, Anny, but > it reminded me that I haven't insulted you for a while.) > > --Bob G. > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cervantes.james Sun Sep 28 18:31:40 2008 From: cervantes.james (James Cervantes) Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2008 15:31:40 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: waiting for clarification In-Reply-To: <4b65c2d70809281401u1bd74fd9k9ab093b0ace76792@mail.gmail.com> References: <48DFE96B.3060007@opus40.org> <48DFED7A.5080509@opus40.org> <4b65c2d70809281401u1bd74fd9k9ab093b0ace76792@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <648208b60809281531s7b945918v7cb79d16a37a328f@mail.gmail.com> "holy potato"??? - Jim On Sun, Sep 28, 2008 at 2:01 PM, Anny Ballardini wrote: > holy potato > I am there too: > ..., Jude MacDonald, Anny Ballardini, Cassie Lewis, ... > > > On Sun, Sep 28, 2008 at 10:47 PM, TheOldMole wrote: > >> Along with some names like Jack Spicer and Jean Valentine. Did you read >> the comments at the bottom? No one seems to know anything about this. I >> liked the idea that it was a ploy to see how many poets use Google Alert. >> >> David Graham wrote: >> >>> Holy cow! My name is there, too. They don't even reveal which poem >>> they are pilfering. . . . >>> >>> Hmmmm. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> ======================================== >>> David Graham >>> grahamd at ripon.edu >>> >>> Home Page: >>> http://web.mac.com/drjazz >>> >>> Poetry Library: >>> http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html >>> ========================================== >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Sep 28, 2008, at 3:30 PM, TheOldMole wrote: >>> >>> Anyone know anything about this? >>>> >>>> I found, through a Google update, that I am to be included in a >>>> 4000-page online anthology from forgodot.com >>>> >>>> Every comment on this site -- including mine -- is the same. Wha...? >>>> What anthology? Who gave you permission to use my poem? >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Tad Richards >>>> http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ >>>> http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ >>>> >>>> >>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> New-Poetry mailing list >>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>> >>> >> >> -- >> Tad Richards >> http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ >> http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ >> >> Don't forget to order your copy of FILM NOIR! >> http://stores.lulu.com/store.php?fAcctID=2712239 >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> > > > > -- > Anny Ballardini > http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ > http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome > http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html > I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing > star! > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning http://www.fieralingue.it/documenti/mr_bondo.pdf http://www.poetserv.org/jvc/home/index.html http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamescervantes/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From amyhappens Sun Sep 28 18:40:22 2008 From: amyhappens (amy king) Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2008 15:40:22 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Out of towners & Otherwise ... Message-ID: <745476.94125.qm@web83303.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Hi all -- please visit our new reading series site to view videos of Ariana Reines reading dreams & Coeur de Lion and answering questions about yurts, camels and Sarah Palin; Kristi Maxwell winning at chess against a hand; Alan Bajandas telling death death death; and Arpine Konyalian Grenier flying on a pelican. Go go go! And thank you for supporting Stain. Without listeners we're just a blot. http://stainofpoetry.wordpress.com/video/ http://stainofpoetry.wordpress.com/video/ http://stainofpoetry.wordpress.com/video/ Amy & Ana _______ Recent work http://www.writing.upenn.edu/pennsound/x/King.html Amy's Alias http://amyking.org/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard Sun Sep 28 19:09:17 2008 From: halvard (Halvard Johnson) Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2008 18:09:17 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: waiting for clarification In-Reply-To: <648208b60809281531s7b945918v7cb79d16a37a328f@mail.gmail.com> References: <48DFE96B.3060007@opus40.org> <48DFED7A.5080509@opus40.org> <4b65c2d70809281401u1bd74fd9k9ab093b0ace76792@mail.gmail.com> <648208b60809281531s7b945918v7cb79d16a37a328f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Actually I think clarification is very overrated. Hal, holy chiles en nogada McCain / Palin -- Just say thanks but no thanks. They're a bridge to nowhere. Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at earthlink.net halvard at gmail.com http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html On Sep 28, 2008, at 5:31 PM, James Cervantes wrote: > "holy potato"??? > > - Jim > > On Sun, Sep 28, 2008 at 2:01 PM, Anny Ballardini > wrote: > holy potato > I am there too: > ..., Jude MacDonald, Anny Ballardini, Cassie Lewis, ... > > > On Sun, Sep 28, 2008 at 10:47 PM, TheOldMole > wrote: > Along with some names like Jack Spicer and Jean Valentine. Did you > read the comments at the bottom? No one seems to know anything about > this. I liked the idea that it was a ploy to see how many poets use > Google Alert. > > David Graham wrote: > Holy cow! My name is there, too. They don't even reveal which > poem they are pilfering. . . . > > Hmmmm. > > > > > ======================================== > David Graham > grahamd at ripon.edu > > > Home Page: > http://web.mac.com/drjazz > > Poetry Library: > http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html > ========================================== > > > > > On Sep 28, 2008, at 3:30 PM, TheOldMole wrote: > > Anyone know anything about this? > > I found, through a Google update, that I am to be included in a 4000- > page online anthology from forgodot.com > > Every comment on this site -- including mine -- is the same. Wha...? > What anthology? Who gave you permission to use my poem? > > > -- > Tad Richards > http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ > http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > -- > Tad Richards > http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ > http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ > > Don't forget to order your copy of FILM NOIR! > http://stores.lulu.com/store.php?fAcctID=2712239 > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > -- > Anny Ballardini > http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ > http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome > http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html > I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a > dancing star! > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > -- > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org > http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning > http://www.fieralingue.it/documenti/mr_bondo.pdf > http://www.poetserv.org/jvc/home/index.html > http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamescervantes/ > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From brainboltpoet Sun Sep 28 19:22:48 2008 From: brainboltpoet (Beverly Rainbolt) Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2008 18:22:48 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] waiting for clarification In-Reply-To: <48DFE96B.3060007@opus40.org> References: <48DFE96B.3060007@opus40.org> Message-ID: <5513eaa0809281622r555afe20u986995d3a1e24936@mail.gmail.com> I think I'll buy a copy; it'll be worth it to read the poem by Alcoholic Poet. B On Sun, Sep 28, 2008 at 3:30 PM, TheOldMole wrote: > Anyone know anything about this? > > I found, through a Google update, that I am to be included in a 4000-page > online anthology from forgodot.com > > Every comment on this site -- including mine -- is the same. Wha...? What > anthology? Who gave you permission to use my poem? > > > -- > Tad Richards > http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ > http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ > > Don't forget to order your copy of FILM NOIR! > http://stores.lulu.com/store.php?fAcctID=2712239 > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman Sun Sep 28 20:53:27 2008 From: bobgrumman (Bob Grumman) Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2008 19:53:27 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] waiting for clarification In-Reply-To: <4b65c2d70809281437t7bf76d3cp8cfb127bb4dd505a@mail.gmail.com> References: <48DFE96B.3060007@opus40.org><648208b60809281422h225456d8nafb3daf473ae627b@mail.gmail.com><48E00733.4000709@nut-n-but .net> <4b65c2d70809281437t7bf76d3cp8cfb127bb4dd505a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <48E02707.4060907@nut-n-but.net> Anny Ballardini wrote: > Here's Our Bob! Where have you been for such a long time_ I'm sure you > were on holiday and you just forgot about this lot of working people. > That is what you did. I'm not sure where I've been, Anny, but I'm still half there, trying to crawl the rest of the way out. Apparantly a very sluggish thyroid gland put me there. My drug dealer gave me bigger pills than I'd been taking; they've helped, but I may need even bigger ones. Urp, Bob From jforjames Sun Sep 28 20:02:09 2008 From: jforjames (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2008 20:02:09 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Masthead: Poetryetc special issue Message-ID: <8CAEFDDC037CE5C-1100-D37@MBLK-M06.sysops.aol.com> Date:??? Sun, 28 Sep 2008 09:19:15 +1000 From:??? Alison Croggon Subject: Masthead: Poetryetc special issue Out now: Masthead 11: Poetryetc Special Issue Poetryetc: Poems and Poets An anthology edited by Andrew Burke and Candice Ward http://www.masthead.net.au/ "What made the Poetryetc listserv distinct from the beginning was John Kinsella's internationalism, and his vision of its being a space for collaborative projects as well as dialogue and exchange...From 1997, Poetryetc projects collectively represent hundreds of poems by dozens of poets, by any measure an extraordinary explosion of collective creativity.... "This anthology is the most recent of the Poetryetc projects. Edited by Candice Ward and Andrew Burke, with an e-book designed by Peter Ciccariello, it represents a selection of poems written by list members over the past few years. It includes many distinguished poets side by side with new or little known voices, and demonstrates the diversity and stylistic openness that was always a major strength of Poetryetc." >From Poetryetc: A Brief History by Alison Croggon With poems from: Rachel Loden | Martin Dolan | Kenneth Wolman | Ren=E9e Ashley | Patrick McManus | S.J. Litherland |Nathan Hondros | Sheila E. Murphy | Tina Bass | Trevor Joyce | Kasper Salonen | Larissa Shmailo | Halvard Johnson | Sally Evans | Glen Phillips | Mark Weiss | S.K. Kelen | Stephen Vincent | Tad Richards | Barry Alpert | Martin J. Walker | Jim Bennett |Gerald Schwartz | Peter Riley | Robin Hamilton | David Bircumshaw | Candice Ward | Peter Howard | Joanna Boulter | Jill Jones | John Kinsella | Randolph Healy | Bob Marcacci | Liz Kirby | Max Richards | Andrew Burke | Peter Larkin | Cindy Lee | Caleb Cluff | Douglas Barbour | =C1rni Ibsen | Janet Jackson | Lawrence Upton | Heather Taylor | Roger Collett | Peter Ciccariello |Harriet Zinnes | John Tranter | Sharon Brogan | Frederick Pollack | Pierre Joris | Alison Croggon http://www.masthead.net.au/ --=20 Editor, Masthead:? http://www.masthead.net.au Blog: http://theatrenotes.blogspot.com Home page: http://www.alisoncroggon.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini Mon Sep 29 08:18:02 2008 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2008 14:18:02 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] purrrrrrrring all along ... Message-ID: <4b65c2d70809290518o5fb8be37r40bb6abaf0542ce8@mail.gmail.com> >From the Writer's Almanac: Purring by Coleman Barks The internet says science is not sure how cats purr, probably a vibration of the whole larynx, unlike what we do when we talk. Less likely, a blood vessel moving across the chest wall. As a child I tried to make every cat I met purr. That was one of the early miracles, the stroking to perfection. Here is something I have never heard: a feline purrs in two conditions, when deeply content and when mortally wounded, to calm themselves, readying for the death-opening. The low frequency evidently helps to strengthen bones and heal damaged organs. Say poetry is a human purr, vessel mooring in the chest, a closed-mouthed refuge, the feel of a glide through dying. One winter morning on a sunny chair, inside this only body, a far-off inboard motorboat sings the empty room, urrrrrrrhhhh urrrrrrrhhhhh urrrrrrrhhhh "Purring" by Coleman Barks from *Winter Sky: New and Selected Poems, 1968?2008*. (c) University of Georgia Press, 2008. Reprinted with permission. (buy now) -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From skip Mon Sep 29 10:09:51 2008 From: skip (Skip Fox) Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2008 09:09:51 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: waiting for clarification In-Reply-To: <4b65c2d70809281401u1bd74fd9k9ab093b0ace76792@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <5C042C0E12BC429697E6CE29EE2EE44C@win.louisiana.edu> Well, at least there is some intelligence or mature sensibility behind the selection. (I'm not in there.) -----Original Message----- From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Anny Ballardini Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2008 4:02 PM To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &,Views Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Re: waiting for clarification holy potato I am there too: ..., Jude MacDonald, Anny Ballardini, Cassie Lewis, ... On Sun, Sep 28, 2008 at 10:47 PM, TheOldMole wrote: Along with some names like Jack Spicer and Jean Valentine. Did you read the comments at the bottom? No one seems to know anything about this. I liked the idea that it was a ploy to see how many poets use Google Alert. David Graham wrote: Holy cow! My name is there, too. They don't even reveal which poem they are pilfering. . . . Hmmmm. ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.mac.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== On Sep 28, 2008, at 3:30 PM, TheOldMole wrote: Anyone know anything about this? I found, through a Google update, that I am to be included in a 4000-page online anthology from forgodot.com Every comment on this site -- including mine -- is the same. Wha...? What anthology? Who gave you permission to use my poem? -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ Don't forget to order your copy of FILM NOIR! http://stores.lulu.com/store.php?fAcctID=2712239 _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jeff.newberry Mon Sep 29 10:50:41 2008 From: jeff.newberry (Jeff Newberry) Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2008 10:50:41 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] waiting for clarification In-Reply-To: <648208b60809281422h225456d8nafb3daf473ae627b@mail.gmail.com> References: <48DFE96B.3060007@opus40.org> <648208b60809281422h225456d8nafb3daf473ae627b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <731bb17a0809290750g5d1e2996x452c684c24b401be@mail.gmail.com> Crikey! Jesus H. Christ! I'm on the list, too! Are these the poets who are going to be raptured? Jeff Newberry On Sun, Sep 28, 2008 at 5:22 PM, James Cervantes wrote: > Jumpin Jehosaphat! I'm in there under "and many more . . ." > - Jim, a.k.a. "anon" > > > On Sun, Sep 28, 2008 at 1:30 PM, TheOldMole wrote: > >> Anyone know anything about this? >> >> I found, through a Google update, that I am to be included in a 4000-page >> online anthology from forgodot.com >> >> Every comment on this site -- including mine -- is the same. Wha...? What >> anthology? Who gave you permission to use my poem? >> >> >> -- >> Tad Richards >> http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ >> http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ >> >> Don't forget to order your copy of FILM NOIR! >> http://stores.lulu.com/store.php?fAcctID=2712239 >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> > > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Blog: http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com Obama Myths: http://www.matthew25.org/paf/index.htm -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Opus40-01 Mon Sep 29 11:14:00 2008 From: Opus40-01 (TheOldMole) Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2008 11:14:00 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] waiting for clarification In-Reply-To: <731bb17a0809290750g5d1e2996x452c684c24b401be@mail.gmail.com> References: <48DFE96B.3060007@opus40.org> <648208b60809281422h225456d8nafb3daf473ae627b@mail.gmail.com> <731bb17a0809290750g5d1e2996x452c684c24b401be@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <48E0F0B8.8070103@opus40.org> One of the poets on the list is Olde Quietude. Jeff Newberry wrote: > Crikey! Jesus H. Christ! I'm on the list, too! > > Are these the poets who are going to be raptured? > > Jeff Newberry > > On Sun, Sep 28, 2008 at 5:22 PM, James Cervantes > > wrote: > > Jumpin Jehosaphat! I'm in there under "and many more . . ." > > - Jim, a.k.a. "anon" > > > On Sun, Sep 28, 2008 at 1:30 PM, TheOldMole > wrote: > > Anyone know anything about this? > > I found, through a Google update, that I am to be included in > a 4000-page online anthology from forgodot.com > > > Every comment on this site -- including mine -- is the same. > Wha...? What anthology? Who gave you permission to use my poem? > > > -- > Tad Richards > http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ > http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ > > Don't forget to order your copy of FILM NOIR! > http://stores.lulu.com/store.php?fAcctID=2712239 > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > -- > Blog: http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com > Obama Myths: http://www.matthew25.org/paf/index.htm > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ Don't forget to order your copy of FILM NOIR! http://stores.lulu.com/store.php?fAcctID=2712239 From halvard Mon Sep 29 12:28:10 2008 From: halvard (Halvard Johnson) Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2008 11:28:10 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Intriguing heading on today's NYT Books page Message-ID: <27BF0642-0006-4D39-954A-CC749D051397@earthlink.net> William Woodruff Is Dead; British Hal McCain / Palin -- Just say thanks but no thanks. They're a bridge to nowhere. Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at earthlink.net halvard at gmail.com http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tony Mon Sep 29 13:16:10 2008 From: tony (Tony Trigilio) Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2008 12:16:10 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Beat Symposium Updates: list of panels; McClure reading; di Prima cancellation Message-ID: <48E10D5A.40902@starve.org> Hi everyone-- With regret, I'm writing to say that Diane di Prima had to cancel her reading at The Beat Generation Symposium next month at Columbia College Chicago. I'm please to announce that Michael McClure will now be the featured poet on Saturday, October 11. I've pasted below the full list of panels and events (including a reading Oct. 12 by Michael Rothenberg and David Meltzer, part of the great Myopic Books Reading Series here in Chicago). As always, feel free to email back with questions! Hope to see you there-- Best, Tony ******************************************** THE BEAT GENERATION SYMPOSIUM ******************************************** Please join us for a conference devoted to the literary and cultural legacy of the Beat Generation: "The Beat Generation Symposium," co-sponsored by the Beat Studies Association, the Columbia College Chicago English Department and Provost's Office, Columbia College's Ellen Stone Belic Institute for the Study of Women and Gender in the Arts and Media, and the Illinois State University Department of English and College of Liberal Arts and Sciences. Friday, October 10, and Saturday, October 11, 2008 Columbia College Chicago Film Row Cinema 1104 South Wabash Avenue, 8th floor This is an academic Beat Studies conference to be held in conjunction with the Columbia College's Center for the Book and Paper Arts's Fall 2008 display of the Jack Kerouac ON THE ROAD manuscript scroll. The Beat Generation Symposium features panel discussions each day, with poetry readings by Joanne Kyger (October 10) and Michael McClure (October 11). The readings are free and open to the public. We regret that Diane di Prima had to cancel her appearance, but are pleased to announce that Michael McClure will now be the featured poet on Saturday, October 11. JOANNE KYGER, a native California writer, is the author of over 20 books of poetry. She is known for her ties to the poets of Black Mountain College, the San Francisco Renaissance, and the Beat Generation. Her most recent books are About Now: Collected Poems, 1957-2004 (National Poetry Foundation, 2007) and Not Veracruz (Libellum Press, 2007). She taught for many years at Naropa University's poetics program, and The New College of San Francisco. She lives on the coast north of San Francisco. One of the core group of Beat poets who gained fame in 1950s San Francisco, MICHAEL MCCLURE is also a playwright, journalist and memoirist. His life and writing reveal a deep interest in nature, ecology, and consciousness. McClure continues to live and work in San Francisco where he is more active than ever, writing and performing his poetry at festivals, as well as colleges and clubs across the country. Most recently McClure joined with composer Terry Riley to create a CD titled I Like Your Eyes Liberty. Recent books include Huge Dreams: San Francisco and Beat Poems, Rain Mirror, and Touching the Edge. Panelists include John Bryant, Peter Cook, Terrance Diggory, Jane Falk, Amy Friedman, Deborah R. Geis, Nancy M. Grace, Tim Hunt, Rob Johnson, Ronna Johnson, Hassan Melehy, Timothy Murphy, Jennie Skerl, Matt Theado, Tony Trigilio, and more. The weekend of the symposium, there will be a related offsite reading by Michael Rothenberg (Unhurried Vision) and David Meltzer (David's Copy) sponsored by Myopic Books and the Poetry Center of Chicago. Sunday, October 12, 7:00 p.m. Myopic Books, 1564 N Milwaukee Ave, in Chicago's Wicker Park neighborhood. ***************** REGISTRATION ***************** Free for Columbia College faculty, staff, and students with valid IDs. Evening poetry readings are free and open to the public. Conference fees: $100 ($50 for Graduate Students, Independent Scholars, and Retired Faculty). To register by credit card, call the Columbia Ticket Office at (312) 344-6600, or register online at: www.colum.edu/tickets/index.php To register by mail, download the registration form here: http://www.colum.edu/Academics/English_Department/beatsymposium/PDFs-bgs/BeatSymposiumRegistrationForm.pdf ******************************* ONLINE VISITOR'S GUIDE http://www.colum.edu/Academics/English_Department/beatsymposium/Hotels_and_Travel.php **************************** ******************************* CONFERENCE SCHEDULE ******************************* OCTOBER 10, 2008 10:00 a.m. Welcome and Plenary Address 10:15-11:30 a.m. "Road Mapping(s): The Textual Terrain of On the Road" Panel Chair: Tim Hunt, Illinois State University "Byways and Highways: Manuscripts, Typescripts, and the Process of On the Road" Isaac Gewirtz, Curator, Berg Collection, New York Public Library "Visions and Versions of Jack: A Fluid Text Edition of On the Road" John Bryant, Department of English, Hofstra University "Hidden Roads: Improvisational Textuality and On the Road" Tim Hunt, Department of English, Illinois State University 11:45-1:00 p.m. "Crossing to Safety -- Cultural Contestations in Beat Literature" Panel Chair: Fiona Paton, State University of New York at New Paltz "Kerouac, Beat Religiosity, and the Center of American Culture" Steven Schroeder, Shenzhen University "'A Kick at the Icebox Door': Haiku and Beat Haikus" Matt Theado, Gardner-Webb University "Jack Kerouac, the Qu?b?cois Diaspora, and Qu?b?cois Literature" Hassan Melehy, The University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill 1:00-2:30 p.m. (Break for Lunch) 2:30-3:45 p.m. "The Aesthetics and Spirit of Avant-Garde Practice: Joanne Kyger and Diane di Prima" Panel Chair: Ronna C. Johnson, Tufts University "Joanne Kyger and the Aesthetics of Attention" Terrance Diggory, Skidmore College "'Who did we pray to'? Diane di Prima's Loba" Tony Trigilio, Columbia College Chicago "'From the inside': Joanne Kyger's Changes of Mind" Linda Russo, Washington State University "The Feminized Interzone in Kyger and Di Prima" Amy Friedman, Ursinus College 4:00-5:15 p.m. "Hydrogen Jukebox: Allen Ginsberg and Deaf Poetry" Peter Cook, Columbia College Chicago Miriam Lerner, National Technical Institute for the Deaf, Rochester Institute of Technology Kenny Lerner, National Technical Institute for the Deaf, Rochester Institute of Technology; Member, Flying Words Project 7:00 p.m. Poetry reading by Joanne Kyger OCTOBER 11, 2008 8:45-10:00 a.m. "Beat Studies, The Next Generation: Showcasing Graduate and Post-Graduate Scholarship" Panel Chair: Tony Trigilio, Columbia College Chicago "The Impossible Manifesto: Tracing the Manifesto Form through Avant-Garde and Beat Writing" Jimmy Fazzino, University of California, Santa Cruz. "Parasites, Viruses, and William S. Burroughs's Method" Michael Sean Bolton, Arizona State University. "Summers in the Skagit: Gary Snyder, Jack Kerouac, and the Language of the Lookout" John J. Morrell, Vanderbilt University. 10:15-11:30 a.m. "Exploring the Beat Landscape -- Welch, Ferlinghetti, and Kaufman" Panel Chair: Nancy M. Grace, The College of Wooster "Lew Welch: Hermit Poet of Rat Flat" Jane Falk, The University of Akron "'Unfair Arguments with Existence': Ferlinghetti's One-Acts and the Modes of Beat Drama" Deborah R. Geis, DePauw University "Bob Kaufman and Urbanizing Pastoral" Todd Nathan Thorpe, The University of Notre Dame 11:45-12:45 p.m. Elizabeth Von Vogt reads from her memoir, 681 Lexington Avenue -- A Beat Education in New York City, 1947-1954 In this memoir just released from Greater Midwest Publishing, Von Vogt, a sister of John Clellon Holmes, describes her coming of age among Clellon Holmes, Jack Kerouac, Allen Ginsberg, and other Beats in post-World War II New York City. 12:45-2:15 p.m. (Break for lunch) 2:30-3:45 p.m. "New Scholarship on William S. Burroughs" Panel Chair: Jennie Skerl, West Chester University "Love and 'Genial' Laughter: Cutting Up The Ticket That Exploded (1961 and 1967)" Katharine Streip, Concordia University "Conservative Politics and Literary Radicalism: Burroughs and Kerouac" Allen Hibbard, Middle Tennessee State University "William S. Burroughs as 'Good Ol'Boy': Eating the Naked Lunch in East Texas" Rob Johnson, The University of Texas-Pan American Respondent: Timothy Murphy, University of Oklahoma 4:00-5:15 p.m. "Beat Reception and Recovery -- Assessing the Critics and the Historians" Chair: Tim Hunt, Illinois State University "Inside the 6 Gallery with Co-founder Deborah Remington" Nancy M. Grace, The College of Wooster "Kerouac Reception in the 1980s: Renaissance and Scholarly Revival" Ronna C. Johnson, Tufts University. "Recent Reception of Naked Lunch" Jennie Skerl, West Chester University. "Infiltrating the Boy Gang: Women in the Encyclopedia of Beat Literature" Kurt Hemmer, William Rainey Harper College 7:00 p.m. Poetry reading by Michael McClure 8:00 p.m. Closing Reception (Film Row Theater lobby) The Beat Generation Symposium is sponsored by the English Department and Provost's Office of Columbia College Chicago, in conjunction with the Beat Studies Association, an international organization that fosters scholarship on Beat Generation literature and art; Ellen Stone Belic Institute for the Study of Women and Gender in the Arts and Media; and the Illinois State University Department of English and College of Liberal Arts and Sciences. For information on joining the Beat Studies Association, please go to: http://www.wooster.edu/beatstudies/index.html From robin.hamilton2 Mon Sep 29 13:46:54 2008 From: robin.hamilton2 (Robin Hamilton) Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2008 18:46:54 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] waiting for clarification References: <48DFE96B.3060007@opus40.org> <648208b60809281422h225456d8nafb3daf473ae627b@mail.gmail.com><731bb17a0809290750g5d1e2996x452c684c24b401be@mail.gmail.com> <48E0F0B8.8070103@opus40.org> Message-ID: <9AD5F489F3BD4682A9F9D1F9D191909B@CoreDuo> The inclusion that intrigues me is Dominic Fox. I'm not sure where the compilers could have come on Dom's poetry (he doesn't have a large web presence) other than on poetryetc. As far as I could make out, there were two others who publish fairly regularly on poetryetc -- Andrew Burke and Halvard Johnson -- included, though Hal obviously publishes elsewhere too (as does Anny Ballardini). But if someone was trawling poetryetc, there are a lot of omissions. My first thought was that the compilers had used a bot to trawl the net, but in that case (why am I not there? ), I'd have expected more hits from the petc group. Distinctly odd, altogether [though no odder than when I recently did an ego search on googlebooks, I discovered I'd been included in an anthology published by Saltzburgh University Press. Dear god in heaven ... :-((( ]. For those on this list who might not know, poetryetc has just published an anthology: http://www.masthead.net.au/issue11/contents11.html Robin (I'll copy this to the poetryetc list, where it hasn't been mentioned yet. FYI: << Anyone know anything about this? I found, through a Google update, that I am to be included in a 4000-page online anthology from forgodot.com Every comment on this site -- including mine -- is the same. Wha...? What anthology? Who gave you permission to use my poem? >> http://forgodot.com/ R. From faustina1 Mon Sep 29 14:07:43 2008 From: faustina1 (faustina1 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2008 14:07:43 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] waiting for clarification In-Reply-To: <9AD5F489F3BD4682A9F9D1F9D191909B@CoreDuo> References: <48DFE96B.3060007@opus40.org> <648208b60809281422h225456d8nafb3daf473ae627b@mail.gmail.com><731bb17a0809290750g5d1e2996x452c684c24b401be@mail.gmail.com><48E0F0B8.8070103@opus40.org> <9AD5F489F3BD4682A9F9D1F9D191909B@CoreDuo> Message-ID: <8CAF075676B1329-850-253@WEBMAIL-DZ15.sysops.aol.com> Perhaps it isn't ever going to come.? Like Godot.? We will sit and wait for this 4,000 page .pdf file, talking excitedly, wringing our hands... -----Original Message----- From: Robin Hamilton Cc: Poetryetc: poetry and poetics Sent: Mon, 29 Sep 2008 12:46 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] waiting for clarification The inclusion that intrigues me is Dominic Fox.? ? I'm not sure where the compilers could have come on Dom's poetry (he doesn't have a large web presence) other than on poetryetc.? ? As far as I could make out, there were two others who publish fairly regularly on poetryetc -- Andrew Burke and Halvard Johnson -- included, though Hal obviously publishes elsewhere too (as does Anny Ballardini).? ? But if someone was trawling poetryetc, there are a lot of omissions.? ? My first thought was that the compilers had used a bot to trawl the net, but in that case (why am I not there? ), I'd have expected more hits from the petc group.? ? Distinctly odd, altogether [though no odder than when I recently did an ego search on googlebooks, I discovered I'd been included in an anthology published by Saltzburgh University Press. Dear god in heaven ... :-((( ].? ? For those on this list who might not know, poetryetc has just published an anthology:? ? ? http://www.masthead.net.au/issue11/contents11.html? ? Robin? ? (I'll copy this to the poetryetc list, where it hasn't been mentioned yet.? ? FYI:? ? <>? ? ? http://forgodot.com/? ? R.? ? _______________________________________________? New-Poetry mailing list? New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu? http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From skip Mon Sep 29 14:29:38 2008 From: skip (Skip Fox) Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2008 13:29:38 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] waiting for clarification In-Reply-To: <8CAF075676B1329-850-253@WEBMAIL-DZ15.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <4CBCE53ECF49483ABFED76C4D4B2F118@win.louisiana.edu> Hucksters abound. If you can't write, start an industry (a guild, say) or a controversy or claim to have found and translated a ms., or start a contest, or . . . (do anything but write). But one wonders . . . there's nothing much to gain, why all this squalor of activity? (Maybe because there is so little, the "fighting" becomes fierce, as they say.) Here's a gambit: use hundreds of poets' names in your blog. A couple will google themselves and then everyone will check out the blog. Many of these people are simply ad-men and -women. "Clancy Ratcliff," by the way, is not a poet (I just spoke to her husband and he said he can't remember her ever publishing a poem), she is an assistant professor of English where I work. Field: rhetoric. Forego (sounds like a warning or like Far Gone, another questionable endeavor), smells more than funny. -----Original Message----- From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of faustina1 at aol.com Sent: Monday, September 29, 2008 1:08 PM To: robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com; new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] waiting for clarification Perhaps it isn't ever going to come. Like Godot. We will sit and wait for this 4,000 page .pdf file, talking excitedly, wringing our hands... -----Original Message----- From: Robin Hamilton Cc: Poetryetc: poetry and poetics Sent: Mon, 29 Sep 2008 12:46 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] waiting for clarification The inclusion that intrigues me is Dominic Fox. I'm not sure where the compilers could have come on Dom's poetry (he doesn't have a large web presence) other than on poetryetc. As far as I could make out, there were two others who publish fairly regularly on poetryetc -- Andrew Burke and Halvard Johnson -- included, though Hal obviously publishes elsewhere too (as does Anny Ballardini). But if someone was trawling poetryetc, there are a lot of omissions. My first thought was that the compilers had used a bot to trawl the net, but in that case (why am I not there? ), I'd have expected more hits from the petc group. Distinctly odd, altogether [though no odder than when I recently did an ego search on googlebooks, I discovered I'd been included in an anthology published by Saltzburgh University Press. Dear god in heaven ... :-((( ]. For those on this list who might not know, poetryetc has just published an anthology: http://www.masthead.net.au/issue11/contents11.html Robin (I'll copy this to the poetryetc list, where it hasn't been mentioned yet. FYI: << Anyone know anything about this? I found, through a Google update, that I am to be included in a 4000-page online anthology from forgodot.com Every comment on this site -- including mine -- is the same. Wha...? What anthology? Who gave you permission to use my poem? >> http://forgodot.com/ R. _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _____ Find phone numbers fast with the New AOL Yellow Pages! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From robin.hamilton2 Mon Sep 29 14:50:33 2008 From: robin.hamilton2 (Robin Hamilton) Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2008 19:50:33 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] waiting for clarification References: <4CBCE53ECF49483ABFED76C4D4B2F118@win.louisiana.edu> Message-ID: <625FBCD4F1E74C6995A0793CE76A1083@CoreDuo> "Clancy Ratcliff," by the way, is not a poet (I just spoke to her husband and he said he can't remember her ever publishing a poem), she is an assistant professor of English where I work. Field: rhetoric. This makes it even odder -- we have a lot of the Usual Suspects, whose work could have been picked up on a web trawl, along with a striking absence of some whom one would think would fall into this catagory -- and at least two names, Dominic Fox and now Clancy Ratcliff, whom one wouldn't expect to appear. On the assumption that it is a bot that's doing the choosing, anyone (Bob Grumman, Roger Day) care to reverse-engineer the mechanism and venture a guess at whatever screwed-up algorithm is being used? Robin -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From skip Mon Sep 29 15:22:51 2008 From: skip (Skip Fox) Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2008 14:22:51 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] waiting for clarification In-Reply-To: <625FBCD4F1E74C6995A0793CE76A1083@CoreDuo> Message-ID: <865B6342FD18476781A55B626DEC78C6@win.louisiana.edu> I just spoke to Clancy. She's never published a poem. So, unless there are two people with such a junque name . . . Hmmm. -----Original Message----- From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Robin Hamilton Sent: Monday, September 29, 2008 1:51 PM To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] waiting for clarification "Clancy Ratcliff," by the way, is not a poet (I just spoke to her husband and he said he can't remember her ever publishing a poem), she is an assistant professor of English where I work. Field: rhetoric. This makes it even odder -- we have a lot of the Usual Suspects, whose work could have been picked up on a web trawl, along with a striking absence of some whom one would think would fall into this catagory -- and at least two names, Dominic Fox and now Clancy Ratcliff, whom one wouldn't expect to appear. On the assumption that it is a bot that's doing the choosing, anyone (Bob Grumman, Roger Day) care to reverse-engineer the mechanism and venture a guess at whatever screwed-up algorithm is being used? Robin -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From robin.hamilton2 Mon Sep 29 15:50:47 2008 From: robin.hamilton2 (Robin Hamilton) Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2008 20:50:47 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] waiting for clarification References: <865B6342FD18476781A55B626DEC78C6@win.louisiana.edu> Message-ID: <6CFD2F5DD9AF478EA3F8FA8988A5F3D9@CoreDuo> I just spoke to Clancy. She's never published a poem. So, unless there are two people with such a unique name . . . Hmmm. Perhaps she authored a Found Poem, without realising she was doing it? A new category for Bob's Taxonomy -- Accidental Poets. Robin (Argh -- should we restart the What-is-original? thread with regard to Hugh McDiarmid's Seagull's Skull poem, from Glynn Hughes and ultimately jumping off Hart Crane's Bridge, via the US and the UK editions of McDiarmid's Complete/Collected Poems? That has to be the funniest damn send-up of intellectual property rights that I've ever encountered. Situationist Poetics, yet. Robin [who was more like to find nits or clegs among the machair than a seagull's skull] } -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cervantes.james Mon Sep 29 15:57:21 2008 From: cervantes.james (James Cervantes) Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2008 12:57:21 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Announcing:The Salt River Review, Spring 2008 Message-ID: <648208b60809291257k7f20a868w62e9d6cb8e199d3d@mail.gmail.com> The Spring 2008 issue of The Salt River Review is now online. Poetry by ?lvaro Leiva, Pablo Neruda, Zhuang Yisa, Ren Powell, Charmi Keranen, Sarah Browning, Laura Jensen, Millicent Borges Accardi, Greg Simon, Katharine Salzmann, David Brendan Hopes, Muriel Nelson, Gwyn McVa Belles Lettres: Wherein prose poems, nonfiction, essays, and other writings are found: Simon Peter Eggertsen, Laura Jensen, Anny Ballardini, Greg Simon, Paul Sampson. Fiction by Roberta Allen, David Bowen, Sarah Freese, Rosemary Jones, Eva Konstantopoulos, Ellen Birkett Morris, Gavin Tierney. http://www.poetserv.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames Mon Sep 29 15:53:24 2008 From: jforjames (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2008 15:53:24 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetry without borders, Peter Gizzi interview (audio) Message-ID: <8CAF0842AEF9DA4-A60-60D@webmail-da21.sysops.aol.com> http://www.mcgilldaily.com/article/4718-poetry-without-borders Poetry without borders English department speaker series brings creative writing to McGill Livingston Miller Culture Writer ?It?s either revealing the world to you, or it?s not,? Peter Gizzi says of poetry. He?s one of four poets coming to speak at McGill this week, alongside poetry critic and scholar Marjorie Perloff, as part of the North American Poetry and the New Century event. Perloff?s lecture tonight, entitled Unoriginal Genius: Citationality in 21st Century Poetry, is expected to be the event?s main feature. Whatever can be inferred from the title is all that is known about this lecture; not even the poets have been informed as to what exactly Perloff has planned. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini Mon Sep 29 16:00:29 2008 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2008 22:00:29 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] waiting for clarification In-Reply-To: <865B6342FD18476781A55B626DEC78C6@win.louisiana.edu> References: <625FBCD4F1E74C6995A0793CE76A1083@CoreDuo> <865B6342FD18476781A55B626DEC78C6@win.louisiana.edu> Message-ID: <4b65c2d70809291300v6ce05957nd39161a89f8eb65@mail.gmail.com> It must be a name indeed, if it is a junque name! :-) Anny who has just finished translating the most boring things junk writing has ever produced (see contracts and the like). On Mon, Sep 29, 2008 at 9:22 PM, Skip Fox wrote: > I just spoke to Clancy. She's never published a poem. So, unless there > are two people with such a junque name . . . Hmmm. > > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From robin.hamilton2 Mon Sep 29 16:04:38 2008 From: robin.hamilton2 (Robin Hamilton) Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2008 21:04:38 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] waiting for clarification References: <4CBCE53ECF49483ABFED76C4D4B2F118@win.louisiana.edu> Message-ID: <82C5BB2FE9774613899EA5B0BF5FE2B7@CoreDuo> << I discovered I'd been included in an anthology published by Saltzburgh University Press. Dear god in heaven ... :-((( ]. >> Not just that, but to add insult to injury, the anthology was apparently edited by Fred Beake. The only reason I once had a copy of FB's Unbearable Lightness of Her Being was that a mate of mine and I had an agreement that any reading we went to, one or the other of us would buy a copy of the reader's book. That time, I was unlucky, picked the wrong fortnight, I did, but. :-(((((((( R. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cervantes.james Mon Sep 29 16:09:15 2008 From: cervantes.james (James Cervantes) Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2008 13:09:15 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] CORRECTION: The Fall 2008 issue of The Salt River Review is online Message-ID: <648208b60809291309te6fe65evbd03d0bfdcd76f27@mail.gmail.com> The Fall 2008 issue of The Salt River Review is now online. Poetry by ?lvaro Leiva, Pablo Neruda, Zhuang Yisa, Ren Powell, Charmi Keranen, Sarah Browning, Laura Jensen, Millicent Borges Accardi, Greg Simon, Katharine Salzmann, David Brendan Hopes, Muriel Nelson, Gwyn McVa Belles Lettres: Wherein prose poems, nonfiction, essays, and other writings are found: Simon Peter Eggertsen, Laura Jensen, Anny Ballardini, Greg Simon, Paul Sampson. Fiction by Roberta Allen, David Bowen, Sarah Freese, Rosemary Jones, Eva Konstantopoulos, Ellen Birkett Morris, Gavin Tierney. http://www.poetserv.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini Mon Sep 29 16:12:05 2008 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2008 22:12:05 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetry without borders, Peter Gizzi interview (audio) In-Reply-To: <8CAF0842AEF9DA4-A60-60D@webmail-da21.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CAF0842AEF9DA4-A60-60D@webmail-da21.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <4b65c2d70809291312t5d4f7fa2y9e1ddaeefa8b2a80@mail.gmail.com> I think I love Perloff, she is one of the few serious women I know. On Mon, Sep 29, 2008 at 9:53 PM, wrote: > > http://www.mcgilldaily.com/article/4718-poetry-without-borders > Poetry without borders > English department speaker series brings creative writing to McGill > Livingston Miller > Culture Writer > "It's either revealing the world to you, or it's not," Peter Gizzi says of > poetry. > He's one of four poets coming to speak at McGill this week, alongside > poetry critic and scholar Marjorie Perloff, as part of the North American > Poetry and the New Century event. Perloff's lecture tonight, entitled > Unoriginal Genius: Citationality in 21st Century Poetry, is expected to be > the event's main feature. Whatever can be inferred from the title is all > that is known about this lecture; not even the poets have been informed as > to what exactly Perloff has planned. > > ------------------------------ > Find phone numbers fast with the New AOL Yellow Pages > ! > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From robin.hamilton2 Mon Sep 29 16:19:01 2008 From: robin.hamilton2 (Robin Hamilton) Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2008 21:19:01 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] waiting for clarification References: <4CBCE53ECF49483ABFED76C4D4B2F118@win.louisiana.edu> Message-ID: <845BE2465C094852BA295C0886295BC7@CoreDuo> Another couple who are off the wall (in different ways) -- the Scottish connection: Dee Rimbaud Alasdair Gray (Alasdair's done a lot of things as well as novels, like murals and TV plays, but poems?) And let's not forget the New Formalists: Annie Finch ... is there too. Deeply weird. Robin -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rog3r.day Mon Sep 29 16:21:02 2008 From: rog3r.day (Roger Day) Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2008 21:21:02 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: waiting for clarification In-Reply-To: <5C042C0E12BC429697E6CE29EE2EE44C@win.louisiana.edu> References: <4b65c2d70809281401u1bd74fd9k9ab093b0ace76792@mail.gmail.com> <5C042C0E12BC429697E6CE29EE2EE44C@win.louisiana.edu> Message-ID: Umm. Rod McKuen is amongst the list, and at least one non-poet, Dave Winer. Roger On Mon, Sep 29, 2008 at 3:09 PM, Skip Fox wrote: > Well, at least there is some intelligence or mature sensibility behind the > selection. (I'm not in there.) > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu > [mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Anny Ballardini > Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2008 4:02 PM > To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &,Views > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Re: waiting for clarification > > > > holy potato > I am there too: > ..., Jude MacDonald, Anny Ballardini, Cassie Lewis, ... > > On Sun, Sep 28, 2008 at 10:47 PM, TheOldMole wrote: > > Along with some names like Jack Spicer and Jean Valentine. Did you read the > comments at the bottom? No one seems to know anything about this. I liked > the idea that it was a ploy to see how many poets use Google Alert. > > David Graham wrote: > > Holy cow! My name is there, too. They don't even reveal which poem they > are pilfering. . . . > > Hmmmm. > > > > > ======================================== > David Graham > > grahamd at ripon.edu > > Home Page: > http://web.mac.com/drjazz > > Poetry Library: > http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html > ========================================== > > > > > On Sep 28, 2008, at 3:30 PM, TheOldMole wrote: > > Anyone know anything about this? > > I found, through a Google update, that I am to be included in a 4000-page > online anthology from forgodot.com > > Every comment on this site -- including mine -- is the same. Wha...? What > anthology? Who gave you permission to use my poem? > > > -- > Tad Richards > http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ > http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > -- > > Tad Richards > http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ > http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ > > Don't forget to order your cop