From atelierjewelweed at gmail.com  Wed Oct  1 07:16:16 2008
From: atelierjewelweed at gmail.com (Suzanne Burns)
Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2008 07:16:16 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] R.I.P. Hayden Carruth
In-Reply-To: <4446FBF3-042C-4C20-8429-6E96FD320527@ripon.edu>
References: <4446FBF3-042C-4C20-8429-6E96FD320527@ripon.edu>
Message-ID: <bda48ea50810010416x1750ceb6x240936970782970d@mail.gmail.com>

This is a very, very big one. :-(

I studied with him at Syracuse University.

Suzanne



On Tue, Sep 30, 2008 at 8:56 PM, David Graham <GrahamD at ripon.edu> wrote:

> I just learned of Hayden Carruth's death.  A major loss.
> http://www.poets.org/poet.php/prmPID/232
>
>
>
> ========================================
> David Graham
> grahamd at ripon.edu
>
> Home Page:
> http://web.mac.com/drjazz
>
> Poetry Library:
> http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html
> ==========================================
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
>
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From anny.ballardini at gmail.com  Wed Oct  1 08:04:55 2008
From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2008 14:04:55 +0200
Subject: [New-Poetry] Wordsworth
Message-ID: <4b65c2d70810010504o563ca39h9f7f46ae57a45dc6@mail.gmail.com>

from today's Writer's Almanac:

Composed Upon Westminster Bridge, September 3, 1802

by William Wordsworth<http://www.elabs7.com/c.html?rtr=on&s=fj6,bwz3,dv,b4d,4lm8,3hrs,fxvj>

Earth has not anything to show more fair:
Dull would he be of soul who could pass by
A sight so touching in its majesty:
This City now doth, like a garment, wear
The beauty of the morning; silent, bare,
Ships, towers, domes, theatres, and temples lie
Open unto the fields, and to the sky;
All bright and glittering in the smokeless air.
Never did sun more beautifully steep
In his first splendour, valley, rock, or hill;
Ne'er saw I, never felt, a calm so deep!
The river glideth at his own sweet will:
Dear God! the very houses seem asleep;
*And all that mighty heart is lying still!*

"Composed Upon Westminster Bridge, September 3, 1802" by William Wordsworth.
Public domain. From *The Collected Works of William Wordsworth*. (buy
now<http://www.elabs7.com/c.html?rtr=on&s=fj6,bwz3,dv,cpaw,7ij2,3hrs,fxvj>)



-- 
Anny Ballardini
http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html
I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing
star!
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From jforjames at aol.com  Wed Oct  1 20:38:03 2008
From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 01 Oct 2008 20:38:03 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetry of Sarah Palin
Message-ID: <8CAF23E43AA165F-970-1012@webmail-de09.sysops.aol.com>


http://www.slate.com/id/2201342/

The Poetry of Sarah Palin
Recent works by the Republican vice presidential candidate.
By Hart Seely
Posted Wednesday, Oct. 1, 2008, at 1:25 PM ET 

Sarah Palin

It's been barely six weeks since the arctic-fresh voice of Alaskan poet Sarah Heath Palin burst upon the lower 48. In campaign interviews, the governor, mother, and maverick GOP vice presidential candidate has chosen to bypass the media filter and speak directly to fans through her intensely personal verses, spoken poems that drill into the vagaries of modern life as if they were oil deposits beneath a government-protected tundra. 


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From halvard at earthlink.net  Wed Oct  1 21:18:29 2008
From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson)
Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2008 20:18:29 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Last call! Poetry submissions for Big Bridge 2009
Message-ID: <EB4A9DC0-BE5B-42F8-BA87-22D1CCB4D5B9@earthlink.net>


Friends and neighbors--

For a third mini-anthology of poems, this time inspired by /  
responding to / related to
Barbara Guest's poem "Eating Chocolate Ice Cream: Reading Mayakovsky"  
and/or the
various wars/insurgencies/etc. going on in the world today, please  
send 1-6 poems and
a brief bio to me at halvard at earthlink.net with the words "Big Bridge"  
followed by
your own name clearly in the subject line. Please, when sending  
attachments, send all
poems in a single attachment.

Also include a photo if you'd care to have one used.

This mini-anthology will appear in the January 2009 issue of Big  
Bridge, and
work received before the end of November 2008 will be considered. The  
current
mini-anthology can be found at http://www.bigbridge.org/WAR-PAP.HTM.

If you haven't had a response to work already received, please  
forgive. All decisions will
be made in earlyish December. Thank you.

And please pass this message along.

HJ

Halvard Johnson
================
halvard at earthlink.net
http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html
http://entropyandme.blogspot.com
http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com
http://www.hamiltonstone.org
http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html

====

Eating Chocolate Ice Cream: Reading Mayakovsky


Since I've decided to revolutionize my life
                         since
                                     "
                         decided
                                                 "
                         revolutionize
                                                 "
                         life
                                                 "

How early it is! It is eight o'clock in the morning.
Well, the pigeons were up earlier
Did you eat all your eggs?
Now we shall go for a long walk.
Now? There is too much winter.
I am going to admire the snow on your coat.
Time for hot soup, already?
You have worked for three solid hours.
I have written forty-eight, no forty-nine,
no fifty-one poems.
How many states are there?
I cannot remember what is uniting America.
It is then time for your nap.
What a lovely, pleasant dream I just had.
But I like waking up better.
I do admire reality like snow on my coat.
Would you take cream or lemon in your tea?
No sugar?
And no cigarettes.
Daytime is good, but evening is better.
I do like our evening discussions.
Yesterday we talked about Kant.
Today let's think about Hegel.
In another week we shall have reached Marx.
Goody.
Life is a joy if one has industrious hands.
Supper? Stew and well-cooked. Delicious.
Well, perhaps just one more glass of milk.
Nine o'clock! Bath time!
Soap and a clean rough towel.
Bedtime!
The Red Army is marching tonight.
They shall march through my dreams
in their new shiny leather boots,
their freshly laundered shirts.
All those ugly stains of caviar and champagne
and kisses
have been rubbed away.
They are going to the barracks.
They are answering hundreds of pink
and yellow and blue and white telephones.
How happy and contented and well-fed they look
lounging on their fur divans,
chanting "Russia how kind you are to us.
How kind you are to everybody.
We want to live forever."
Before I wake up they will throw away
their pistols, and magically
factories will spring up where once
there was rifle fire, a roulette factory,
where once a body fell from an open window.
Hurry dear dream
I am waiting for you
under the eiderdown.
And tomorrow will be more real, perhaps,
than yesterday.

--Barbara Guest

fr. Angel Hair 5, Spring 1968

in The Angel Hair Anthology
[New York: Granary Books, 2001]



Halvard Johnson
================
halvard at earthlink.net
halvard at gmail.com
http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html
http://entropyandme.blogspot.com
http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com
http://www.hamiltonstone.org
http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html

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From suelin6787 at charter.net  Thu Oct  2 07:05:45 2008
From: suelin6787 at charter.net (Linda Sue Grimes)
Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2008 06:05:45 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetry of Sarah Palin
References: <8CAF23E43AA165F-970-1012@webmail-de09.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <69454AE1CCB5485386B19BEA8791A072@LindaSue>

FDR on TV, 1929

When the stock market crashed, Franklin D. Roosevelt 
got on the television and didn't just talk 
about the, you know, the princes of greed...

No Clean Coal
No coal plants here in America
Build them, if they're going to build them, 
over there. Make them clean.
We're not supporting clean coal.

Barack America!
A man I'm proud to call my friend.  
A man who will be the next 
President of the United States 
- Barack America!

He's Clean
I mean, you got the first mainstream
African-American who is articulate
and bright and clean 
and a nice-looking guy
I mean, that's a storybook, man.

Translation from the British

Original:  

Why am I the first Kinnock in a thousand generations
to be able to get to a University . 
was it because all our predecessors were thick, 
those people who could work eight hours underground 
and then come up to play football?"  - Neil Kinnock

Translation: 

I started thinking as I was coming over here, 
why is it that Joe Biden's the first in his family 
ever to go to University . is it because our 
fathers and mothers were not bright. 
who worked in the coal mines 
of Northeast Pennsylvania and would come up 
after 12 hours and play football?"

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: jforjames at aol.com 
  To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu 
  Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2008 7:38 PM
  Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetry of Sarah Palin


  http://www.slate.com/id/2201342/
  The Poetry of Sarah Palin
  Recent works by the Republican vice presidential candidate.
  By Hart Seely
  Posted Wednesday, Oct. 1, 2008, at 1:25 PM ET 
  Sarah Palin

  It's been barely six weeks since the arctic-fresh voice of Alaskan poet Sarah Heath Palin burst upon the lower 48. In campaign interviews, the governor, mother, and maverick GOP vice presidential candidate has chosen to bypass the media filter and speak directly to fans through her intensely personal verses, spoken poems that drill into the vagaries of modern life as if they were oil deposits beneath a government-protected tundra. 


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Find phone numbers fast with the New AOL Yellow Pages! 


------------------------------------------------------------------------------


  _______________________________________________
  New-Poetry mailing list
  New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
  http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
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From pmetres at jcu.edu  Thu Oct  2 14:55:15 2008
From: pmetres at jcu.edu (Philip Metres)
Date: Thu,  2 Oct 2008 14:55:15 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [New-Poetry] new on BEHIND THE LINES POETRY BLOG
Message-ID: <20081002145515.BWP04249@mirapoint.jcu.edu>

Enjoy!

http://www.behindthelinespoetry.blogspot.com

September posts:

So My Dad Says to Me, "You Look Just Like the Terrorist from United 93" 
Wilfred Owen, from Voices in Wartime 
This is Your Nation on White Privilege 
"Winston's Atomic Bird" by Boston Spaceships 
Behind the Lines: War Resistance Poetry on the American Homefront 
Another Reason to Vote for Barack Obama: He's Arab-American!
Summer Literary Seminar in St. Petersburg 
Utah Phillips on EVERYTHING 
Howard Zinn, the Walt Whitman of Historians 
Is Gabriel Schwartz for Real? (File Under "Four More Yores") 
"Patronymic" on the Crisis Chronicles Online Library
Naomi Shihab Nye on Peace in the Middle East 
Felix: A Series of New Writing (featuring Mark Nowak...) 
The Metres Reading at the Literary Cafe in Cleveland
Martin Espada on the Effects of 9/11 on the Language
Dr. Eyyad Serraj, on the Necessity of Non-Violent... 
"Attention Span 2008": My List of Recommended Poetry Books 
"The Ash Tree" on "The Crisis Chronicles Online Library
Sarah Palin Believes Iraq War is "God's Plan." 
Amy Bracken Sparks and Philip Metres, reading on 9/11
"Mirrorrim": Visual Poetry as Self-Portrait 
The New No Spin Zone: Why the Daily Show Is Better... 
The Arrests of Amy Goodman, Nicole Salazar, and... 
Writers & Their Friends Literary Showcase this Saturday
Poets for Palestine now out 

Philip Metres
Associate Professor
Department of English
John Carroll University
20700 N. Park Blvd
University Heights, OH 44118
phone: (216) 397-4528 (work)
fax: (216) 397-1723
http://www.philipmetres.com
http://www.behindthelinespoetry.blogspot.com


From amyhappens at yahoo.com  Thu Oct  2 15:15:09 2008
From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king)
Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2008 12:15:09 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [New-Poetry] I DUNNO - VOTE?
Message-ID: <276391.10317.qm@web83303.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>

I DUNNO ABOUT THIS DEMOCRATIC VOTING SYSTEM, BUT YOU KNOW, GIVE IT A GO?  TELL SOME BLOKES?  STUDENTS?  ?RENTS?  EXES?  SOMEBODY? EVERYONE?

HERE ARE SOME FAMOUS PEOPLE TO MOCK YOU:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0vtHwWReGU0

IF IT?S GOING TO BE A CLOSE ELECTION, WELL, YOU ONLY HAVE A COUPLE DAYS LEFT TO REGISTER.? I GUESS.
http://maps.google.com/vote


_______





Recent work

http://www.writing.upenn.edu/pennsound/x/King.html



Amy's Alias

http://amyking.org/


      
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From jforjames at aol.com  Thu Oct  2 20:42:58 2008
From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 02 Oct 2008 20:42:58 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] celebration of environmental poet Robinson Jeffers
Message-ID: <8CAF3081DBD675A-1154-E64@WEBMAIL-MA17.sysops.aol.com>


http://www.ucsc.edu/news_events/press_releases/text.asp?pid=2448



October 2, 2008

Contact: Scott Rappaport (831) 459-2496; srapp at ucsc.edu

UCSC to host community celebration of environmental poet Robinson Jeffers
?
Award-winning poet Li-Young Lee is one of four noted poets who will read on Oct. 25 at "A Celebration of Central Coast Poet Robinson Jeffers," at the Veterans Memorial Hall in downtown Santa Cruz. Hosted by UCSC's Humanities Division, the event is part of the National Endowment for the Arts' "The Big Read" program. (cr: Cuirt International Festival of Literature)? 


UCSC will present A Celebration of Central Coast Poet Robinson Jeffers, on Saturday, October 25, from 7 to 10 p.m. at the Veterans Memorial Hall in downtown Santa Cruz. 


The event is part of the National Endowment for the Arts' The Big Read: The Poetry of Robinson Jeffers?a commemoration of the late poet and of Tor House, Jeffers' family home in Carmel. It is the result of an NEA partnership with the Poetry Foundation to celebrate the nation's historic poets and poetry sites. 


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From jforjames at aol.com  Thu Oct  2 20:56:54 2008
From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 02 Oct 2008 20:56:54 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] Dodge Festival
Message-ID: <8CAF30A100BF359-1154-F16@WEBMAIL-MA17.sysops.aol.com>

A friend of mine went to the Dodge Festival. He said it was great.
A poet that was a surprise to him: Kevin Young.??The poet he thought
drew the most enthusiastic crowd: Naomi Shihab Nye. 
He loved hearing Maxime Kumin, his first time.
Billy Collins, Mark Doty and other known quantities of course 
represented themselves very well.

Finnegan
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From anny.ballardini at gmail.com  Fri Oct  3 12:56:50 2008
From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Fri, 3 Oct 2008 18:56:50 +0200
Subject: [New-Poetry] Dodge Festival
In-Reply-To: <8CAF30A100BF359-1154-F16@WEBMAIL-MA17.sysops.aol.com>
References: <8CAF30A100BF359-1154-F16@WEBMAIL-MA17.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <4b65c2d70810030956u243d0205j6fa39181c6562fbd@mail.gmail.com>

Oh yes, I will want to go to one of those festivals one day or the other!


On Fri, Oct 3, 2008 at 2:56 AM, <jforjames at aol.com> wrote:

> A friend of mine went to the Dodge Festival. He said it was great.
> A poet that was a surprise to him: Kevin Young.  The poet he thought
> drew the most enthusiastic crowd: Naomi Shihab Nye.
> He loved hearing Maxime Kumin, his first time.
> Billy Collins, Mark Doty and other known quantities of course
> represented themselves very well.
>
> Finnegan
> ------------------------------
> Find phone numbers fast with the New AOL Yellow Pages<http://yellowpages.aol.com/?NCID=emlweusyelp00000001>
> !
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
>


-- 
Anny Ballardini
http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html
I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing
star!
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From halvard at earthlink.net  Fri Oct  3 13:07:29 2008
From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson)
Date: Fri, 3 Oct 2008 12:07:29 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Dodge Festival
In-Reply-To: <4b65c2d70810030956u243d0205j6fa39181c6562fbd@mail.gmail.com>
References: <8CAF30A100BF359-1154-F16@WEBMAIL-MA17.sysops.aol.com>
	<4b65c2d70810030956u243d0205j6fa39181c6562fbd@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <F75A25C5-16EC-426E-9C90-791C3BEC07A2@earthlink.net>

Nah, just come on down to San Miguel and have a good time.

Hal

McCain / Palin -- Just say thanks but no thanks.
They're a bridge to nowhere.

Halvard Johnson
================
halvard at earthlink.net
halvard at gmail.com
http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html
http://entropyandme.blogspot.com
http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com
http://www.hamiltonstone.org
http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html



On Oct 3, 2008, at 11:56 AM, Anny Ballardini wrote:

> Oh yes, I will want to go to one of those festivals one day or the  
> other!
>
>
> On Fri, Oct 3, 2008 at 2:56 AM, <jforjames at aol.com> wrote:
> A friend of mine went to the Dodge Festival. He said it was great.
> A poet that was a surprise to him: Kevin Young.  The poet he thought
> drew the most enthusiastic crowd: Naomi Shihab Nye.
> He loved hearing Maxime Kumin, his first time.
> Billy Collins, Mark Doty and other known quantities of course
> represented themselves very well.
>
> Finnegan
> Find phone numbers fast with the New AOL Yellow Pages!
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
>
>
>
> -- 
> Anny Ballardini
> http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
> http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
> http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html
> I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a  
> dancing star!
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry

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From halvard at earthlink.net  Fri Oct  3 13:38:46 2008
From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson)
Date: Fri, 3 Oct 2008 12:38:46 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Report from the border between fiction and non-fiction
Message-ID: <3D14E5B5-F736-4C3A-99E7-C8DC110A1DBF@earthlink.net>


Just thought I'd mention that my wife, Lynda Schor, has a story called  
"Lips" in a new
anthology from the University of Texas Press called *The Art of  
Friction*.

Here are other tidbits there:

"Great Jews in Sports" by Thomas Beller; "Remember" by Mary Clearman  
Blew;
"101 Ways to Cook Hamburger" by Bernard Cooper; "How to Date a  
Browngirl,
Blackgirl, Whitegirl, or Halfie" by Junot D?az; Excerpt from *Notes  
from a Writer's
Book of Cures and Spells* by Marcia Douglas; "A Primer for the  
Punctuation of
Heart Disease" by Jonathan Safran Foer; "Hitlertown" by Stefan  
Kiesbye; "Trickle-
Down Timeline" by Chris Mazza; "Seven Stories about Being Me" by Wendy
McClure; "Tagore to the Max" by Peter Michelson; "Beyond the Border of  
Love"
by Maryanne O'Hara; "Interrupted Reading" by Lance Olsen; "From  
Combaria" by
Ted Pelton; "Rhapsody in Green" by Marjorie Sandor; "Our Day with  
Jerry Springer"
by Davis Schneiderman; "For the Invisible, Against Thinking" by Ronald  
Sukenick;
"Pagan Baby" by Zoe Trope; and "Bloodlines" by Terry Tempest Williams.

There are authors' commentaries for all stories, not to mention a  
foreword and an afterword.


Hal

McCain / Palin -- Just say thanks but no thanks.
They're a bridge to nowhere.

Halvard Johnson
================
halvard at earthlink.net
halvard at gmail.com
http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html
http://entropyandme.blogspot.com
http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com
http://www.hamiltonstone.org
http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html



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From anny.ballardini at gmail.com  Fri Oct  3 14:07:25 2008
From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Fri, 3 Oct 2008 20:07:25 +0200
Subject: [New-Poetry] Dodge Festival
In-Reply-To: <F75A25C5-16EC-426E-9C90-791C3BEC07A2@earthlink.net>
References: <8CAF30A100BF359-1154-F16@WEBMAIL-MA17.sysops.aol.com>
	<4b65c2d70810030956u243d0205j6fa39181c6562fbd@mail.gmail.com>
	<F75A25C5-16EC-426E-9C90-791C3BEC07A2@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <4b65c2d70810031107i3b5df654q6cb2df1e9b5df152@mail.gmail.com>

:-)
oh well, we did have some readings there, starting from the very Christian
Boek, Hank Lazer, Susan Schultz, Bill Lavender, Amanda Boyden (soon in film
format), her husband Joseph Boyden, and many more! There was a good crowd
you did whatever you could to avoid... that was also nice of you!
At least Jim showed up once, !
, and luckily _not_ at my reading,
even if they said I was good / but those were the usual words we told
everybody, :-(

An Anny not responsible for any mistakes because of a bad cold probably
temperature and who knows what else.

On Fri, Oct 3, 2008 at 7:07 PM, Halvard Johnson <halvard at earthlink.net>wrote:

> Nah, just come on down to San Miguel and have a good time.
> Hal
>
> McCain / Palin -- Just say thanks but no thanks.
> They're a bridge to nowhere.
>
> Halvard Johnson
> ================
> halvard at earthlink.net
> halvard at gmail.com
> http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html<http://home.earthlink.net/%7Ehalvard/index.html>
> http://entropyandme.blogspot.com
> http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com
> http://www.hamiltonstone.org
> http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html<http://home.earthlink.net/%7Ehalvard/vidalocabooks.html>
>
>
>
> On Oct 3, 2008, at 11:56 AM, Anny Ballardini wrote:
>
> Oh yes, I will want to go to one of those festivals one day or the other!
>
>
> On Fri, Oct 3, 2008 at 2:56 AM, <jforjames at aol.com> wrote:
>
>> A friend of mine went to the Dodge Festival. He said it was great.
>> A poet that was a surprise to him: Kevin Young.  The poet he thought
>> drew the most enthusiastic crowd: Naomi Shihab Nye.
>> He loved hearing Maxime Kumin, his first time.
>> Billy Collins, Mark Doty and other known quantities of course
>> represented themselves very well.
>>
>> Finnegan
>> ------------------------------
>> Find phone numbers fast with the New AOL Yellow Pages<http://yellowpages.aol.com/?NCID=emlweusyelp00000001>
>> !
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> New-Poetry mailing list
>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Anny Ballardini
> http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
> http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
> http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html
> I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing
> star!
>
>  _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
>


-- 
Anny Ballardini
http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html
I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing
star!
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From anny.ballardini at gmail.com  Fri Oct  3 14:35:13 2008
From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Fri, 3 Oct 2008 20:35:13 +0200
Subject: [New-Poetry] Report from the border between fiction and
	non-fiction
In-Reply-To: <3D14E5B5-F736-4C3A-99E7-C8DC110A1DBF@earthlink.net>
References: <3D14E5B5-F736-4C3A-99E7-C8DC110A1DBF@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <4b65c2d70810031135v2bf3b551v503d17a5bf4b5533@mail.gmail.com>

Congratulations to Lynda Schor!
Well deserved, Anny

On Fri, Oct 3, 2008 at 7:38 PM, Halvard Johnson <halvard at earthlink.net>wrote:

>
> Just thought I'd mention that my wife, Lynda Schor, has a story called
> "Lips" in a new
> anthology from the University of Texas Press called *The Art of Friction*.
>
> Here are other tidbits there:
>
> "Great Jews in Sports" by Thomas Beller; "Remember" by Mary Clearman Blew;
> "101 Ways to Cook Hamburger" by Bernard Cooper; "How to Date a Browngirl,
> Blackgirl, Whitegirl, or Halfie" by Junot D?az; Excerpt from *Notes from a
> Writer's
> Book of Cures and Spells* by Marcia Douglas; "A Primer for the Punctuation
> of
> Heart Disease" by Jonathan Safran Foer; "Hitlertown" by Stefan Kiesbye;
> "Trickle-
> Down Timeline" by Chris Mazza; "Seven Stories about Being Me" by Wendy
> McClure; "Tagore to the Max" by Peter Michelson; "Beyond the Border of
> Love"
> by Maryanne O'Hara; "Interrupted Reading" by Lance Olsen; "From Combaria"
> by
> Ted Pelton; "Rhapsody in Green" by Marjorie Sandor; "Our Day with Jerry
> Springer"
> by Davis Schneiderman; "For the Invisible, Against Thinking" by Ronald
> Sukenick;
> "Pagan Baby" by Zoe Trope; and "Bloodlines" by Terry Tempest Williams.
>
> There are authors' commentaries for all stories, not to mention a foreword
> and an afterword.
>
>
> Hal
>
> McCain / Palin -- Just say thanks but no thanks.
> They're a bridge to nowhere.
>
> Halvard Johnson
> ================
> halvard at earthlink.net
> halvard at gmail.com
> http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html<http://home.earthlink.net/%7Ehalvard/index.html>
> http://entropyandme.blogspot.com
> http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com
> http://www.hamiltonstone.org
> http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html<http://home.earthlink.net/%7Ehalvard/vidalocabooks.html>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
>


-- 
Anny Ballardini
http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html
I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing
star!
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From cervantes.james at gmail.com  Fri Oct  3 15:08:44 2008
From: cervantes.james at gmail.com (James Cervantes)
Date: Fri, 3 Oct 2008 12:08:44 -0700
Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: [crewrt-l] Report from the border between fiction
	and non-fiction
In-Reply-To: <3D14E5B5-F736-4C3A-99E7-C8DC110A1DBF@earthlink.net>
References: <3D14E5B5-F736-4C3A-99E7-C8DC110A1DBF@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <648208b60810031208v6a5a1720w759b991f4882aa6d@mail.gmail.com>

Did they lubricate?  I mean *pay*?

- Jim, who knows Lynda knows I can be a wise-ass.  Congrats to the
frictionator.

On Fri, Oct 3, 2008 at 10:38 AM, Halvard Johnson <halvard at earthlink.net>wrote:

>
> Just thought I'd mention that my wife, Lynda Schor, has a story called
> "Lips" in a new
> anthology from the University of Texas Press called *The Art of Friction*.
>
> Here are other tidbits there:
>
> "Great Jews in Sports" by Thomas Beller; "Remember" by Mary Clearman Blew;
> "101 Ways to Cook Hamburger" by Bernard Cooper; "How to Date a Browngirl,
> Blackgirl, Whitegirl, or Halfie" by Junot D?az; Excerpt from *Notes from a
> Writer's
> Book of Cures and Spells* by Marcia Douglas; "A Primer for the Punctuation
> of
> Heart Disease" by Jonathan Safran Foer; "Hitlertown" by Stefan Kiesbye;
> "Trickle-
> Down Timeline" by Chris Mazza; "Seven Stories about Being Me" by Wendy
> McClure; "Tagore to the Max" by Peter Michelson; "Beyond the Border of
> Love"
> by Maryanne O'Hara; "Interrupted Reading" by Lance Olsen; "From Combaria"
> by
> Ted Pelton; "Rhapsody in Green" by Marjorie Sandor; "Our Day with Jerry
> Springer"
> by Davis Schneiderman; "For the Invisible, Against Thinking" by Ronald
> Sukenick;
> "Pagan Baby" by Zoe Trope; and "Bloodlines" by Terry Tempest Williams.
>
> There are authors' commentaries for all stories, not to mention a foreword
> and an afterword.
>
>
> Hal
>
> McCain / Palin -- Just say thanks but no thanks.
> They're a bridge to nowhere.
>
> Halvard Johnson
> ================
> halvard at earthlink.net
> halvard at gmail.com
> http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html<http://home.earthlink.net/%7Ehalvard/index.html>
> http://entropyandme.blogspot.com
> http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com
> http://www.hamiltonstone.org
> http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html<http://home.earthlink.net/%7Ehalvard/vidalocabooks.html>
>
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------
> Direct questions about the list to listmom at interversity.net
> Archive user: crewrt / password: hokeypokey
>



-- 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org
http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning
http://www.fieralingue.it/documenti/mr_bondo.pdf
http://www.poetserv.org/jvc/home/index.html
http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamescervantes/
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From halvard at earthlink.net  Fri Oct  3 16:16:44 2008
From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson)
Date: Fri, 3 Oct 2008 15:16:44 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: [crewrt-l] Report from the border between
	fiction and non-fiction
In-Reply-To: <648208b60810031208v6a5a1720w759b991f4882aa6d@mail.gmail.com>
References: <3D14E5B5-F736-4C3A-99E7-C8DC110A1DBF@earthlink.net>
	<648208b60810031208v6a5a1720w759b991f4882aa6d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7279499F-1248-4673-A5BF-75C9BFF57CD0@earthlink.net>

Surely you jest.

Hal

McCain / Palin -- Just say thanks but no thanks.
They're a bridge to nowhere.

Halvard Johnson
================
halvard at earthlink.net
halvard at gmail.com
http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html
http://entropyandme.blogspot.com
http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com
http://www.hamiltonstone.org
http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html



On Oct 3, 2008, at 2:08 PM, James Cervantes wrote:

> Did they lubricate?  I mean *pay*?
>
> - Jim, who knows Lynda knows I can be a wise-ass.  Congrats to the  
> frictionator.
>
> On Fri, Oct 3, 2008 at 10:38 AM, Halvard Johnson <halvard at earthlink.net 
> > wrote:
>
> Just thought I'd mention that my wife, Lynda Schor, has a story  
> called "Lips" in a new
> anthology from the University of Texas Press called *The Art of  
> Friction*.
>
> Here are other tidbits there:
>
> "Great Jews in Sports" by Thomas Beller; "Remember" by Mary Clearman  
> Blew;
> "101 Ways to Cook Hamburger" by Bernard Cooper; "How to Date a  
> Browngirl,
> Blackgirl, Whitegirl, or Halfie" by Junot D?az; Excerpt from *Notes  
> from a Writer's
> Book of Cures and Spells* by Marcia Douglas; "A Primer for the  
> Punctuation of
> Heart Disease" by Jonathan Safran Foer; "Hitlertown" by Stefan  
> Kiesbye; "Trickle-
> Down Timeline" by Chris Mazza; "Seven Stories about Being Me" by Wendy
> McClure; "Tagore to the Max" by Peter Michelson; "Beyond the Border  
> of Love"
> by Maryanne O'Hara; "Interrupted Reading" by Lance Olsen; "From  
> Combaria" by
> Ted Pelton; "Rhapsody in Green" by Marjorie Sandor; "Our Day with  
> Jerry Springer"
> by Davis Schneiderman; "For the Invisible, Against Thinking" by  
> Ronald Sukenick;
> "Pagan Baby" by Zoe Trope; and "Bloodlines" by Terry Tempest Williams.
>
> There are authors' commentaries for all stories, not to mention a  
> foreword and an afterword.
>
>
> Hal
>
> McCain / Palin -- Just say thanks but no thanks.
> They're a bridge to nowhere.
>
> Halvard Johnson
> ================
> halvard at earthlink.net
> halvard at gmail.com
> http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html
> http://entropyandme.blogspot.com
> http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com
> http://www.hamiltonstone.org
> http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html
>
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------
> Direct questions about the list to listmom at interversity.net
> Archive user: crewrt / password: hokeypokey
>
>
>
> -- 
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org
> http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning
> http://www.fieralingue.it/documenti/mr_bondo.pdf
> http://www.poetserv.org/jvc/home/index.html
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamescervantes/
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry

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From Opus40-01 at opus40.org  Fri Oct  3 18:01:35 2008
From: Opus40-01 at opus40.org (TheOldMole)
Date: Fri, 03 Oct 2008 18:01:35 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] Dodge Festival
In-Reply-To: <F75A25C5-16EC-426E-9C90-791C3BEC07A2@earthlink.net>
References: <8CAF30A100BF359-1154-F16@WEBMAIL-MA17.sysops.aol.com>	<4b65c2d70810030956u243d0205j6fa39181c6562fbd@mail.gmail.com>
	<F75A25C5-16EC-426E-9C90-791C3BEC07A2@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <48E6963F.8040603@opus40.org>

I'm not invited?

Halvard Johnson wrote:
> Nah, just come on down to San Miguel and have a good time.
>
> Hal
>
> McCain / Palin -- Just say thanks but no thanks.
> They're a bridge to nowhere.
>
> Halvard Johnson
> ================
> halvard at earthlink.net <mailto:halvard at earthlink.net>
> halvard at gmail.com <mailto:halvard at gmail.com>
> http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html 
> <http://home.earthlink.net/%7Ehalvard/index.html>
> http://entropyandme.blogspot.com 
> http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com
> http://www.hamiltonstone.org
> http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html
>
>
>
> On Oct 3, 2008, at 11:56 AM, Anny Ballardini wrote:
>
>> Oh yes, I will want to go to one of those festivals one day or the other!
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Oct 3, 2008 at 2:56 AM, <jforjames at aol.com 
>> <mailto:jforjames at aol.com>> wrote:
>>
>>     A friend of mine went to the Dodge Festival. He said it was great.
>>     A poet that was a surprise to him: Kevin Young.  The poet he thought
>>     drew the most enthusiastic crowd: Naomi Shihab Nye.
>>     He loved hearing Maxime Kumin, his first time.
>>     Billy Collins, Mark Doty and other known quantities of course
>>     represented themselves very well.
>>
>>     Finnegan
>>     ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>     Find phone numbers fast with the New AOL Yellow Pages
>>     <http://yellowpages.aol.com/?NCID=emlweusyelp00000001>!
>>
>>     _______________________________________________
>>     New-Poetry mailing list
>>     New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu <mailto:New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
>>     http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -- 
>> Anny Ballardini
>> http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
>> http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
>> http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html
>> I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a 
>> dancing star!
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> New-Poetry mailing list
>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu <mailto:New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>   

-- 
Tad Richards
http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/
http://opusforty.blogspot.com/

Don't forget to order your copy of FILM NOIR!
http://stores.lulu.com/store.php?fAcctID=2712239



From Opus40-01 at opus40.org  Fri Oct  3 18:03:10 2008
From: Opus40-01 at opus40.org (TheOldMole)
Date: Fri, 03 Oct 2008 18:03:10 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] Report from the border between fiction
	and	non-fiction
In-Reply-To: <4b65c2d70810031135v2bf3b551v503d17a5bf4b5533@mail.gmail.com>
References: <3D14E5B5-F736-4C3A-99E7-C8DC110A1DBF@earthlink.net>
	<4b65c2d70810031135v2bf3b551v503d17a5bf4b5533@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <48E6969E.6020506@opus40.org>

Lynda is an undervalued treasure, one of our great short story writers. 
I've been a fan since her first book.

Anny Ballardini wrote:
> Congratulations to Lynda Schor!
> Well deserved, Anny
>
> On Fri, Oct 3, 2008 at 7:38 PM, Halvard Johnson <halvard at earthlink.net 
> <mailto:halvard at earthlink.net>> wrote:
>
>
>     Just thought I'd mention that my wife, Lynda Schor, has a story
>     called "Lips" in a new 
>     anthology from the University of Texas Press called *The Art of
>     Friction*.
>
>     Here are other tidbits there:
>
>     "Great Jews in Sports" by Thomas Beller; "Remember" by Mary
>     Clearman Blew; 
>     "101 Ways to Cook Hamburger" by Bernard Cooper; "How to Date a
>     Browngirl, 
>     Blackgirl, Whitegirl, or Halfie" by Junot D?az; Excerpt from
>     *Notes from a Writer's 
>     Book of Cures and Spells* by Marcia Douglas; "A Primer for the
>     Punctuation of 
>     Heart Disease" by Jonathan Safran Foer; "Hitlertown" by Stefan
>     Kiesbye; "Trickle-
>     Down Timeline" by Chris Mazza; "Seven Stories about Being Me" by
>     Wendy 
>     McClure; "Tagore to the Max" by Peter Michelson; "Beyond the
>     Border of Love" 
>     by Maryanne O'Hara; "Interrupted Reading" by Lance Olsen; "From
>     Combaria" by 
>     Ted Pelton; "Rhapsody in Green" by Marjorie Sandor; "Our Day with
>     Jerry Springer" 
>     by Davis Schneiderman; "For the Invisible, Against Thinking" by
>     Ronald Sukenick; 
>     "Pagan Baby" by Zoe Trope; and "Bloodlines" by Terry Tempest Williams.
>
>     There are authors' commentaries for all stories, not to mention a
>     foreword and an afterword.
>
>
>     Hal
>
>     McCain / Palin -- Just say thanks but no thanks.
>     They're a bridge to nowhere.
>
>     Halvard Johnson
>     ================
>     halvard at earthlink.net <mailto:halvard at earthlink.net>
>     halvard at gmail.com <mailto:halvard at gmail.com>
>     http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html
>     <http://home.earthlink.net/%7Ehalvard/index.html>
>     http://entropyandme.blogspot.com 
>     http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com
>     http://www.hamiltonstone.org
>     http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html
>     <http://home.earthlink.net/%7Ehalvard/vidalocabooks.html>
>
>
>
>
>     _______________________________________________
>     New-Poetry mailing list
>     New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu <mailto:New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
>     http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
>
>
>
> -- 
> Anny Ballardini
> http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
> http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
> http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html
> I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a 
> dancing star!
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>   

-- 
Tad Richards
http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/
http://opusforty.blogspot.com/

Don't forget to order your copy of FILM NOIR!
http://stores.lulu.com/store.php?fAcctID=2712239



From Opus40-01 at opus40.org  Fri Oct  3 18:17:39 2008
From: Opus40-01 at opus40.org (TheOldMole)
Date: Fri, 03 Oct 2008 18:17:39 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] Just another day at the office
Message-ID: <48E69A03.6090805@opus40.org>

Over the past 50 years, Clive James has worked as a British television 
personality; a radio broadcaster; a travel writer; a trainee bus 
conductor; a book reviewer for major publications in the United States, 
Britain and his native Australia; a flunky in a machine shop; a 
recording artist (the six albums he wrote in the 1970s with the 
singer-songwriter Pete Atkin are cult classics); a sports?writer; a book 
shelver; an art critic; a prose elegist for Diana, Princess of Wales 
<http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/d/princess_of_wales_diana/index.html?inline=nyt-per> 
(?I am appearing ridiculous now, but it is part of the ceremony, is it 
not??); and, naturally, a circus roustabout. He has also, all along and 
not entirely coincidentally, been a poet. While that last fact is well 
known in Britain and Australia, James?s new book, Opal Sunset: Selected 
Poems, 1958-2008 (Norton, $25.95), is the first volume of his poetry to 
be published in the United States.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/28/books/review/Orr2-t.html?ref=review

-- 
Tad Richards
http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/
http://opusforty.blogspot.com/

Don't forget to order your copy of FILM NOIR!
http://stores.lulu.com/store.php?fAcctID=2712239



From halvard at earthlink.net  Sat Oct  4 00:14:00 2008
From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson)
Date: Fri, 3 Oct 2008 23:14:00 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Dodge Festival
In-Reply-To: <48E6963F.8040603@opus40.org>
References: <8CAF30A100BF359-1154-F16@WEBMAIL-MA17.sysops.aol.com>	<4b65c2d70810030956u243d0205j6fa39181c6562fbd@mail.gmail.com>
	<F75A25C5-16EC-426E-9C90-791C3BEC07A2@earthlink.net>
	<48E6963F.8040603@opus40.org>
Message-ID: <F036D0CE-9715-4654-AEF8-041AD29223D0@earthlink.net>

Oh, Tad, you ask so much. But San Miguel probably
has room.

Hal

McCain / Palin -- Just say thanks but no thanks.
They're a bridge to nowhere.

Halvard Johnson
================
halvard at earthlink.net
halvard at gmail.com
http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html
http://entropyandme.blogspot.com
http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com
http://www.hamiltonstone.org
http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html



On Oct 3, 2008, at 5:01 PM, TheOldMole wrote:

> I'm not invited?
>
> Halvard Johnson wrote:
>> Nah, just come on down to San Miguel and have a good time.
>>
>> Hal
>>
>> McCain / Palin -- Just say thanks but no thanks.
>> They're a bridge to nowhere.
>>
>> Halvard Johnson
>> ================
>> halvard at earthlink.net <mailto:halvard at earthlink.net>
>> halvard at gmail.com <mailto:halvard at gmail.com>
>> http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html <http://home.earthlink.net/%7Ehalvard/index.html 
>> >
>> http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com
>> http://www.hamiltonstone.org
>> http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html
>>
>>
>>
>> On Oct 3, 2008, at 11:56 AM, Anny Ballardini wrote:
>>
>>> Oh yes, I will want to go to one of those festivals one day or the  
>>> other!
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Oct 3, 2008 at 2:56 AM, <jforjames at aol.com <mailto:jforjames at aol.com 
>>> >> wrote:
>>>
>>>    A friend of mine went to the Dodge Festival. He said it was  
>>> great.
>>>    A poet that was a surprise to him: Kevin Young.  The poet he  
>>> thought
>>>    drew the most enthusiastic crowd: Naomi Shihab Nye.
>>>    He loved hearing Maxime Kumin, his first time.
>>>    Billy Collins, Mark Doty and other known quantities of course
>>>    represented themselves very well.
>>>
>>>    Finnegan
>>>     
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>    Find phone numbers fast with the New AOL Yellow Pages
>>>    <http://yellowpages.aol.com/?NCID=emlweusyelp00000001>!
>>>
>>>    _______________________________________________
>>>    New-Poetry mailing list
>>>    New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu <mailto:New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
>>>    http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -- 
>>> Anny Ballardini
>>> http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
>>> http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
>>> http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html
>>> I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a  
>>> dancing star!
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> New-Poetry mailing list
>>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu <mailto:New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
>>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> New-Poetry mailing list
>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>>
>
> -- 
> Tad Richards
> http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/
> http://opusforty.blogspot.com/
>
> Don't forget to order your copy of FILM NOIR!
> http://stores.lulu.com/store.php?fAcctID=2712239
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry



From anny.ballardini at gmail.com  Sat Oct  4 07:31:13 2008
From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Sat, 4 Oct 2008 13:31:13 +0200
Subject: [New-Poetry] Pirates
Message-ID: <4b65c2d70810040431m30e76ec8x3c1958d911641342@mail.gmail.com>

<http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/> 3785 Page Pirated Poetry
Anthology<http://poetryfoundation.org/harriet/2008/10/3785_page_pirated_poetry_antho.html>
 By By Kenneth Goldsmith
*...* Stan Apps, Shelley Powers, Stephen Vincent Benet, Maya Angelou, Wade
Fletcher, Juliana Leslie, *Anny Ballardini*, John Yau, Bob Kerr, Michael
Helsem, Charles Belbin, Jane Jortiz-Nakagawa, John Tyson/Kelly Conway,
Teresa K. *...*
 Harriet - http://poetryfoundation.org/harriet/
<http://poetryfoundation.org/harriet/>
they just used the name of people and added whatever they wanted. We will
see who is behind this orchestration.


-- 
Anny Ballardini
http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html
I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing
star!
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From Opus40-01 at opus40.org  Sat Oct  4 09:26:31 2008
From: Opus40-01 at opus40.org (TheOldMole)
Date: Sat, 04 Oct 2008 09:26:31 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] Pirates
In-Reply-To: <4b65c2d70810040431m30e76ec8x3c1958d911641342@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4b65c2d70810040431m30e76ec8x3c1958d911641342@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <48E76F07.8010906@opus40.org>

Well, I'm there, but the poem of mine they've used is not mine. My name 
appears to ba attached to someone else's poem.

Anny Ballardini wrote:
>
> <http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/>
> 3785 Page Pirated Poetry Anthology 
> <http://poetryfoundation.org/harriet/2008/10/3785_page_pirated_poetry_antho.html>
> By By Kenneth Goldsmith
> *...* Stan Apps, Shelley Powers, Stephen Vincent Benet, Maya Angelou, 
> Wade Fletcher, Juliana Leslie, *Anny Ballardini*, John Yau, Bob Kerr, 
> Michael Helsem, Charles Belbin, Jane Jortiz-Nakagawa, John Tyson/Kelly 
> Conway, Teresa K. *...*
> Harriet - http://poetryfoundation.org/harriet/ 
> <http://poetryfoundation.org/harriet/>
>
>
> they just used the name of people and added whatever they wanted. We 
> will see who is behind this orchestration.
>
>
> -- 
> Anny Ballardini
> http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
> http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
> http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html
> I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a 
> dancing star!
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>   

-- 
Tad Richards
http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/
http://opusforty.blogspot.com/

Don't forget to order your copy of FILM NOIR!
http://stores.lulu.com/store.php?fAcctID=2712239



From jeff.newberry at gmail.com  Sat Oct  4 09:30:18 2008
From: jeff.newberry at gmail.com (Jeff Newberry)
Date: Sat, 4 Oct 2008 09:30:18 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] Pirates
In-Reply-To: <48E76F07.8010906@opus40.org>
References: <4b65c2d70810040431m30e76ec8x3c1958d911641342@mail.gmail.com>
	<48E76F07.8010906@opus40.org>
Message-ID: <731bb17a0810040630t5dd118fcm6a42b7299caad9ee@mail.gmail.com>

Same here.  I'm starting to wonder if this is some kind of an elaborate
joke.

Jeff Newberry

On Sat, Oct 4, 2008 at 9:26 AM, TheOldMole <Opus40-01 at opus40.org> wrote:

> Well, I'm there, but the poem of mine they've used is not mine. My name
> appears to ba attached to someone else's poem.
>
> Anny Ballardini wrote:
>
>>
>> <http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/>
>> 3785 Page Pirated Poetry Anthology <
>> http://poetryfoundation.org/harriet/2008/10/3785_page_pirated_poetry_antho.html
>> >
>> By By Kenneth Goldsmith
>> *...* Stan Apps, Shelley Powers, Stephen Vincent Benet, Maya Angelou, Wade
>> Fletcher, Juliana Leslie, *Anny Ballardini*, John Yau, Bob Kerr, Michael
>> Helsem, Charles Belbin, Jane Jortiz-Nakagawa, John Tyson/Kelly Conway,
>> Teresa K. *...*
>> Harriet - http://poetryfoundation.org/harriet/ <
>> http://poetryfoundation.org/harriet/>
>>
>>
>> they just used the name of people and added whatever they wanted. We will
>> see who is behind this orchestration.
>>
>>
>> --
>> Anny Ballardini
>> http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
>> http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
>> http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html
>> I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing
>> star!
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> New-Poetry mailing list
>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>>
>>
>
> --
> Tad Richards
> http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/
> http://opusforty.blogspot.com/
>
> Don't forget to order your copy of FILM NOIR!
> http://stores.lulu.com/store.php?fAcctID=2712239
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>



-- 
Blog:  http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com
Obama Myths:  http://www.matthew25.org/paf/index.htm
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From robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com  Sat Oct  4 09:52:50 2008
From: robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com (Robin Hamilton)
Date: Sat, 4 Oct 2008 14:52:50 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] Pirates
References: <4b65c2d70810040431m30e76ec8x3c1958d911641342@mail.gmail.com>
	<48E76F07.8010906@opus40.org>
Message-ID: <B88F1BD94B044C6AA3F4926CF482BAC5@CoreDuo>

Just added this to the comments on the Poetry Foundation website:

        http://poetryfoundation.org/harriet/2008/10/3785_page_pirated_poetry_antho.html#more

Robin

********

It's been suggested on another list that the names are those members of 
blogger.com who have the tag "poetry" associated with them.
When you add to this that the texts are generated, you have (a) something 
that doesn't need that much effort to produce, since the names were 
"selected" by a bot trawl, and (b) an anthology that not even the "editors" 
would have read.

There are some people that not even their mother could love.

Now that it's been done, let's hope that we're spared a repetition of the 
event.

Robin

Posted by: Robin | October 4, 2008 8:47 AM



From JforJames at aol.com  Sat Oct  4 10:13:24 2008
From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com)
Date: Sat, 4 Oct 2008 10:13:24 EDT
Subject: [New-Poetry] Pirates
Message-ID: <c7e.1e381661.3618d404@aol.com>

 
In a message dated 10/4/2008 9:30:43 AM Eastern Daylight Time,  
jeff.newberry at gmail.com writes:

Same  here.  I'm starting to wonder if this is some kind of an elaborate  
joke.



If the name Kenneth Goldsmith is associated with this project, you can  be 
pretty much assured it's a dadaist
way of 'having some fun' with the notion of literary texts.
Finnegan



**************New MapQuest Local shows what's happening at your destination.  
Dining, Movies, Events, News & more. Try it out!      
(http://local.mapquest.com/?ncid=emlcntnew00000001)
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From amyhappens at yahoo.com  Sat Oct  4 11:34:04 2008
From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king)
Date: Sat, 4 Oct 2008 08:34:04 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [New-Poetry] Pirates - AHOY!
In-Reply-To: <B88F1BD94B044C6AA3F4926CF482BAC5@CoreDuo>
Message-ID: <801773.93792.qm@web83307.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>

For what's it worth, kudos to these three young guys.? I imagine they're students, twiddling their thumbs, trying to imagine how to stir up the poetry world, steeped in some sort of theory (situationist? dada-ist? surrealism?? etc), facing the menacing world of "getting published" and making something of themselves as poets, ahem.? They've decided to take on the death of the lyrical I, the death of the author, the death of paper, the celebration of the internet sea, etc.? They've done something, though just what isn't clear, but yes, kudos to their efforts to make a mess of the pool of internet muck -- it may be only a ripple in the end, but maybe some of the worthwhile work and sites and ideas will get a chance to rise (not from the anthology) after their pebble has sunk to disappearance.

My response to these three here:
http://amyking.wordpress.com/2008/10/04/the-author-resurrected/

Be well,
Amy

_______





Recent work

http://www.writing.upenn.edu/pennsound/x/King.html



Amy's Alias

http://amyking.org/

--- On Sat, 10/4/08, Robin Hamilton <robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com> wrote:
From: Robin Hamilton <robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com>
Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Pirates
To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views" <new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
Date: Saturday, October 4, 2008, 9:52 AM

Just added this to the comments on the Poetry Foundation website:

       
http://poetryfoundation.org/harriet/2008/10/3785_page_pirated_poetry_antho.html#more

Robin

********

It's been suggested on another list that the names are those members of 
blogger.com who have the tag "poetry" associated with them.
When you add to this that the texts are generated, you have (a) something 
that doesn't need that much effort to produce, since the names were 
"selected" by a bot trawl, and (b) an anthology that not even the
"editors" 
would have read.

There are some people that not even their mother could love.

Now that it's been done, let's hope that we're spared a repetition
of the 
event.

Robin

Posted by: Robin | October 4, 2008 8:47 AM

_______________________________________________
New-Poetry mailing list
New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry



      
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From amyhappens at yahoo.com  Sat Oct  4 11:42:47 2008
From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king)
Date: Sat, 4 Oct 2008 08:42:47 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [New-Poetry] Pirates
In-Reply-To: <4b65c2d70810040431m30e76ec8x3c1958d911641342@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <939279.8243.qm@web83304.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>

Ultimately, whose poems are these?? Were they authored by these guys?? If so, look how they've gotten published poets to read their work.? 

Being unknown allows one not to worry about who gets pissed off at a person.? And now we're thinking and talking about their poems.? Fairly clever -- times three thousand.? 


Best,
Amy

_______





Recent work

http://www.writing.upenn.edu/pennsound/x/King.html



Amy's Alias

http://amyking.org/

--- On Sat, 10/4/08, Anny Ballardini <anny.ballardini at gmail.com> wrote:
From: Anny Ballardini <anny.ballardini at gmail.com>
Subject: [New-Poetry] Pirates
To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &, Views" <new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
Date: Saturday, October 4, 2008, 7:31 AM





3785 Page Pirated Poetry Anthology


By By Kenneth Goldsmith


... Stan Apps, Shelley Powers, Stephen Vincent Benet, Maya Angelou, Wade Fletcher, Juliana Leslie, Anny Ballardini, John Yau, Bob Kerr, Michael Helsem, Charles Belbin, Jane Jortiz-Nakagawa, John Tyson/Kelly Conway, Teresa K. ...




Harriet - http://poetryfoundation.org/harriet/

they just used the name of people and added whatever they wanted. We will see who is behind this orchestration.


-- 
Anny Ballardini
http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/

http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html
I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! 




_______________________________________________
New-Poetry mailing list
New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry



      
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From robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com  Sat Oct  4 11:54:19 2008
From: robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com (Robin Hamilton)
Date: Sat, 4 Oct 2008 16:54:19 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] Pirates
References: <939279.8243.qm@web83304.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <5C954974E805449D81758635B86DC2BB@CoreDuo>

<<
Ultimately, whose poems are these?  Were they authored by these guys?  If 
so, look how they've gotten published poets to read their work.

Being unknown allows one not to worry about who gets pissed off at a person. 
And now we're thinking and talking about their poems.  Fairly clever --  
times three thousand.

Best,
Amy
>>

The consensus of the comments on the Poetry Foundation seems to be that the 
texts were produced by a poetry generating program.

In which case, not even the authors or "authors" will have read more than 
the ones attached to their own names.

Imagine the tedium of reading through 3000+ pages of computer-generated 
twaddle.

            :-(((

Oh, well, as it's all electronic, at least no trees were sacrificed in the 
production of this epic.

Robin 



From Opus40-01 at opus40.org  Sat Oct  4 12:07:28 2008
From: Opus40-01 at opus40.org (TheOldMole)
Date: Sat, 04 Oct 2008 12:07:28 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] Pirates
In-Reply-To: <c7e.1e381661.3618d404@aol.com>
References: <c7e.1e381661.3618d404@aol.com>
Message-ID: <48E794C0.70306@opus40.org>

Who's Kenneth Goldsmith?

JforJames at aol.com wrote:
> In a message dated 10/4/2008 9:30:43 AM Eastern Daylight Time, 
> jeff.newberry at gmail.com writes:
>
>     Same here.  I'm starting to wonder if this is some kind of an
>     elaborate joke.
>
> If the name Kenneth Goldsmith is associated with this project, you can 
> be pretty much assured it's a dadaist
> way of 'having some fun' with the notion of literary texts.
> Finnegan
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> New *MapQuest Local* shows what's happening at your destination. 
> Dining, Movies, Events, News & more. Try it out 
> <http://local.mapquest.com/?ncid=emlcntnew00000001>!
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>   

-- 
Tad Richards
http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/
http://opusforty.blogspot.com/

Don't forget to order your copy of FILM NOIR!
http://stores.lulu.com/store.php?fAcctID=2712239



From cheekc at muohio.edu  Sat Oct  4 12:19:31 2008
From: cheekc at muohio.edu (cris cheek)
Date: Sat, 4 Oct 2008 12:19:31 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] Pirates
In-Reply-To: <5C954974E805449D81758635B86DC2BB@CoreDuo>
References: <939279.8243.qm@web83304.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
	<5C954974E805449D81758635B86DC2BB@CoreDuo>
Message-ID: <957762A3-5992-46C0-88FD-D0218B9A200E@muohio.edu>

i like my poem;-)

it's short

unless anybody has any lingering doubts it is "generated" poetry

some of it is more or less hilarious in terms of the authors ascribed

it doesn't bother me in the slightest

the point is to generate conversation

so it's clearly "working"


cris


From berniegeyer at yahoo.com  Sat Oct  4 12:20:54 2008
From: berniegeyer at yahoo.com (Bernadette Geyer)
Date: Sat, 4 Oct 2008 09:20:54 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [New-Poetry] Pirates
In-Reply-To: <48E76F07.8010906@opus40.org>
Message-ID: <774521.65445.qm@web50403.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

I'd like to suggest people cease posting links to it in their blogs and web sites. The morelinks to their bogus publication, the higher it will rank when people try to find legitimate web sites by searching on any of our names.
?
Don't give them any more publicity than they already have achieved. I'm surprised that Harriet posted the cover and press release as is with links.
?
--Bernadette


--- On Sat, 10/4/08, TheOldMole <Opus40-01 at opus40.org> wrote:

From: TheOldMole <Opus40-01 at opus40.org>
Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Pirates
To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views" <new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
Date: Saturday, October 4, 2008, 9:26 AM

Well, I'm there, but the poem of mine they've used is not mine. My name 
appears to ba attached to someone else's poem.

Anny Ballardini wrote:
>
> <http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/>
> 3785 Page Pirated Poetry Anthology 
>
<http://poetryfoundation.org/harriet/2008/10/3785_page_pirated_poetry_antho.html>
> By By Kenneth Goldsmith
> *...* Stan Apps, Shelley Powers, Stephen Vincent Benet, Maya Angelou, 
> Wade Fletcher, Juliana Leslie, *Anny Ballardini*, John Yau, Bob Kerr, 
> Michael Helsem, Charles Belbin, Jane Jortiz-Nakagawa, John Tyson/Kelly 
> Conway, Teresa K. *...*
> Harriet - http://poetryfoundation.org/harriet/ 
> <http://poetryfoundation.org/harriet/>
>
>
> they just used the name of people and added whatever they wanted. We 
> will see who is behind this orchestration.
>
>
> -- 
> Anny Ballardini
> http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
> http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
> http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html
> I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a 
> dancing star!
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>   

-- 
Tad Richards
http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/
http://opusforty.blogspot.com/

Don't forget to order your copy of FILM NOIR!
http://stores.lulu.com/store.php?fAcctID=2712239

_______________________________________________
New-Poetry mailing list
New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry



      
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From anny.ballardini at gmail.com  Sat Oct  4 12:29:25 2008
From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Sat, 4 Oct 2008 18:29:25 +0200
Subject: [New-Poetry] Pirates
In-Reply-To: <957762A3-5992-46C0-88FD-D0218B9A200E@muohio.edu>
References: <939279.8243.qm@web83304.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
	<5C954974E805449D81758635B86DC2BB@CoreDuo>
	<957762A3-5992-46C0-88FD-D0218B9A200E@muohio.edu>
Message-ID: <4b65c2d70810040929j5b4b1c7fk598d8ce12297aa31@mail.gmail.com>

I read all the comments, I would like you to see the following:

This is outrageous. These guys stole over 3,000 of my poems and are passing
them off as poems by Rachel Mallino, Sandra Beasley, etc. etc.

WTF??????

I deserve credit and compensation. I hope we can settle this out of court,
but if I have to sue to make sure these poems appear under the name of their
rightful author, Matt Cozart, I'll do it.
 Posted by: Matt <http://mattcozart.blogspot.com/> on October 3, 2008 10:23
PM

Is there anybody who knows Matt Cozart? Can this be true?



On Sat, Oct 4, 2008 at 6:19 PM, cris cheek <cheekc at muohio.edu> wrote:

> i like my poem;-)
>
> it's short
>
> unless anybody has any lingering doubts it is "generated" poetry
>
> some of it is more or less hilarious in terms of the authors ascribed
>
> it doesn't bother me in the slightest
>
> the point is to generate conversation
>
> so it's clearly "working"
>
>
> cris
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>



-- 
Anny Ballardini
http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html
I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing
star!
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From amyhappens at yahoo.com  Sat Oct  4 12:32:16 2008
From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king)
Date: Sat, 4 Oct 2008 09:32:16 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [New-Poetry] Pirates
In-Reply-To: <4b65c2d70810040929j5b4b1c7fk598d8ce12297aa31@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <518491.90762.qm@web83301.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>

I know Matt, somewhat.? He's joking.? He's actually very funny.? Check out his blog:
http://mattcozart.blogspot.com/



_______





Recent work

http://www.writing.upenn.edu/pennsound/x/King.html



Amy's Alias

http://amyking.org/

--- On Sat, 10/4/08, Anny Ballardini <anny.ballardini at gmail.com> wrote:
From: Anny Ballardini <anny.ballardini at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Pirates
To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &, Views" <new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
Date: Saturday, October 4, 2008, 12:29 PM

I read all the comments, I would like you to see the following:

This is outrageous. These guys stole over 3,000 of my poems and are
passing them off as poems by Rachel Mallino, Sandra Beasley, etc. etc.

WTF??????

I deserve credit and compensation. I hope we can settle this out of
court, but if I have to sue to make sure these poems appear under the
name of their rightful author, Matt Cozart, I'll do it.
                              
                                 Posted by:
                                 Matt  on October  3, 2008 10:23 PM
                              

Is there anybody who knows Matt Cozart? Can this be true?




On Sat, Oct 4, 2008 at 6:19 PM, cris cheek <cheekc at muohio.edu> wrote:

i like my poem;-)



it's short



unless anybody has any lingering doubts it is "generated" poetry



some of it is more or less hilarious in terms of the authors ascribed



it doesn't bother me in the slightest



the point is to generate conversation



so it's clearly "working"





cris

_______________________________________________

New-Poetry mailing list

New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu

http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry




-- 
Anny Ballardini
http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome

http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html
I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! 



_______________________________________________
New-Poetry mailing list
New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry



      
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From anny.ballardini at gmail.com  Sat Oct  4 12:36:23 2008
From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Sat, 4 Oct 2008 18:36:23 +0200
Subject: [New-Poetry] Pirates
In-Reply-To: <518491.90762.qm@web83301.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
References: <4b65c2d70810040929j5b4b1c7fk598d8ce12297aa31@mail.gmail.com>
	<518491.90762.qm@web83301.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4b65c2d70810040936r673b438evb6a408c909bc90f7@mail.gmail.com>

:-)
all right, then let me tell you that
as much as Amy

I LOVE IT!

CHEERS, Anny


On Sat, Oct 4, 2008 at 6:32 PM, amy king <amyhappens at yahoo.com> wrote:

> I know Matt, somewhat.  He's joking.  He's actually very funny.  Check out
> his blog:
> http://mattcozart.blogspot.com/
>
>
>
> _______
>
>
> Recent work
> http://www.writing.upenn.edu/pennsound/x/King.html
>
> Amy's Alias
> http://amyking.org/
>
> --- On *Sat, 10/4/08, Anny Ballardini <anny.ballardini at gmail.com>* wrote:
>
> From: Anny Ballardini <anny.ballardini at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Pirates
> To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &, Views" <
> new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
> Date: Saturday, October 4, 2008, 12:29 PM
>
>
> I read all the comments, I would like you to see the following:
>
> This is outrageous. These guys stole over 3,000 of my poems and are passing
> them off as poems by Rachel Mallino, Sandra Beasley, etc. etc.
>
> WTF??????
>
> I deserve credit and compensation. I hope we can settle this out of court,
> but if I have to sue to make sure these poems appear under the name of their
> rightful author, Matt Cozart, I'll do it.
>  Posted by: Matt <http://mattcozart.blogspot.com/> on October 3, 2008
> 10:23 PM
>
> Is there anybody who knows Matt Cozart? Can this be true?
>
>
>
> On Sat, Oct 4, 2008 at 6:19 PM, cris cheek <cheekc at muohio.edu> wrote:
>
>> i like my poem;-)
>>
>> it's short
>>
>> unless anybody has any lingering doubts it is "generated" poetry
>>
>> some of it is more or less hilarious in terms of the authors ascribed
>>
>> it doesn't bother me in the slightest
>>
>> the point is to generate conversation
>>
>> so it's clearly "working"
>>
>>
>> cris
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> New-Poetry mailing list
>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Anny Ballardini
> http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
> http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
> http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html
> I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing
> star!
>
>  _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
>


-- 
Anny Ballardini
http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html
I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing
star!
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From JforJames at aol.com  Sat Oct  4 13:49:13 2008
From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com)
Date: Sat, 4 Oct 2008 13:49:13 EDT
Subject: [New-Poetry] Pirates
Message-ID: <d32.4018fc4f.36190699@aol.com>

 
Here's a bit of Kenny G...
_http://epc.buffalo.edu/authors/goldsmith/_ 
(http://epc.buffalo.edu/authors/goldsmith/) 
 
In a message dated 10/4/2008 12:07:57 PM Eastern Daylight Time,  
Opus40-01 at opus40.org writes:

Who's  Kenneth Goldsmith?

JforJames at aol.com wrote:
> In a message dated  10/4/2008 9:30:43 AM Eastern Daylight Time, 
> jeff.newberry at gmail.com  writes:
>
>     Same here.  I'm starting to  wonder if this is some kind of an
>     elaborate  joke.
>
> If the name Kenneth Goldsmith is associated with this  project, you can 
> be pretty much assured it's a dadaist
> way of  'having some fun' with the notion of literary texts.
>  Finnegan
>


 



**************New MapQuest Local shows what's happening at your destination.  
Dining, Movies, Events, News & more. Try it out!      
(http://local.mapquest.com/?ncid=emlcntnew00000001)
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From Opus40-01 at opus40.org  Sat Oct  4 18:13:13 2008
From: Opus40-01 at opus40.org (TheOldMole)
Date: Sat, 04 Oct 2008 18:13:13 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] Pirates
In-Reply-To: <4b65c2d70810040936r673b438evb6a408c909bc90f7@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4b65c2d70810040929j5b4b1c7fk598d8ce12297aa31@mail.gmail.com>	<518491.90762.qm@web83301.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
	<4b65c2d70810040936r673b438evb6a408c909bc90f7@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <48E7EA79.3000500@opus40.org>

I think the whole thing is kinda hilarious. A truly bizarre gag.

Anny Ballardini wrote:
> :-)
> all right, then let me tell you that
> as much as Amy
>
> I LOVE IT!
>
> CHEERS, Anny
>
>
> On Sat, Oct 4, 2008 at 6:32 PM, amy king <amyhappens at yahoo.com 
> <mailto:amyhappens at yahoo.com>> wrote:
>
>     I know Matt, somewhat.  He's joking.  He's actually very funny. 
>     Check out his blog:
>     http://mattcozart.blogspot.com/
>
>
>
>
>     _______
>
>
>     Recent work
>     http://www.writing.upenn.edu/pennsound/x/King.html
>
>     Amy's Alias
>     http://amyking.org/
>
>     --- On *Sat, 10/4/08, Anny Ballardini /<anny.ballardini at gmail.com
>     <mailto:anny.ballardini at gmail.com>>/* wrote:
>
>         From: Anny Ballardini <anny.ballardini at gmail.com
>         <mailto:anny.ballardini at gmail.com>>
>         Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Pirates
>         To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &, Views"
>         <new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu <mailto:new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>>
>         Date: Saturday, October 4, 2008, 12:29 PM
>
>
>         I read all the comments, I would like you to see the following:
>
>         This is outrageous. These guys stole over 3,000 of my poems
>         and are passing them off as poems by Rachel Mallino, Sandra
>         Beasley, etc. etc.
>
>         WTF??????
>
>         I deserve credit and compensation. I hope we can settle this
>         out of court, but if I have to sue to make sure these poems
>         appear under the name of their rightful author, Matt Cozart,
>         I'll do it.
>
>         Posted by: Matt <http://mattcozart.blogspot.com/> on October
>         3, 2008 10:23 PM
>
>         Is there anybody who knows Matt Cozart? Can this be true?
>
>
>
>         On Sat, Oct 4, 2008 at 6:19 PM, cris cheek <cheekc at muohio.edu
>         <mailto:cheekc at muohio.edu>> wrote:
>
>             i like my poem;-)
>
>             it's short
>
>             unless anybody has any lingering doubts it is "generated"
>             poetry
>
>             some of it is more or less hilarious in terms of the
>             authors ascribed
>
>             it doesn't bother me in the slightest
>
>             the point is to generate conversation
>
>             so it's clearly "working"
>
>
>             cris
>
>             _______________________________________________
>             New-Poetry mailing list
>             New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu <mailto:New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
>             http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
>
>
>
>         -- 
>         Anny Ballardini
>         http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
>         http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
>         http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html
>         I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to
>         a dancing star!
>
>         _______________________________________________
>         New-Poetry mailing list
>         New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu <mailto:New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
>         http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
>                     
>
>
>
>     _______________________________________________
>     New-Poetry mailing list
>     New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu <mailto:New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
>     http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
>
>
>
> -- 
> Anny Ballardini
> http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
> http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
> http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html
> I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a 
> dancing star!
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>   

-- 
Tad Richards
http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/
http://opusforty.blogspot.com/

Don't forget to order your copy of FILM NOIR!
http://stores.lulu.com/store.php?fAcctID=2712239



From millb at aol.com  Sat Oct  4 18:27:39 2008
From: millb at aol.com (millb at aol.com)
Date: Sat, 04 Oct 2008 18:27:39 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] Pirates
In-Reply-To: <48E7EA79.3000500@opus40.org>
References: <4b65c2d70810040929j5b4b1c7fk598d8ce12297aa31@mail.gmail.com>	<518491.90762.qm@web83301.mail.sp1.yahoo.com><4b65c2d70810040936r673b438evb6a408c909bc90f7@mail.gmail.com>
	<48E7EA79.3000500@opus40.org>
Message-ID: <8CAF4878B76BE2A-C78-635@WEBMAIL-MZ01.sysops.aol.com>

Sounds like a great idea. . .

After a summer in Spain, well, a month and a few weeks, I am back in the good old US of A.

Only to be here for the VP debate.? You betcha!


Cheers,

Millicent
Http://www.MillicentBorgesAccardi.com


-----Original Message-----
From: TheOldMole <Opus40-01 at opus40.org>
Sent: Sat, 4 Oct 2008 3:13 pm
Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Pirates


I think the whole thing is kinda hilarious. A truly bizarre gag.?
?
Anny Ballardini wrote:?
> :-)?
> all right, then let me tell you that?
> as much as Amy?
>?
> I LOVE IT!?
>?
> CHEERS, Anny?
>?
>?
> On Sat, Oct 4, 2008 at 6:32 PM, amy king <amyhappens at yahoo.com > <mailto:amyhappens at yahoo.com>> wrote:?
>?
> I know Matt, somewhat. He's joking. He's actually very funny. > Check out his blog:?
> http://mattcozart.blogspot.com/?
>?
>?
>?
>?
> _______?
>?
>?
> Recent work?
> http://www.writing.upenn.edu/pennsound/x/King.html?
>?
> Amy's Alias?
> http://amyking.org/?
>?
> --- On *Sat, 10/4/08, Anny Ballardini /<anny.ballardini at gmail.com?
> <mailto:anny.ballardini at gmail.com>>/* wrote:?
>?
> From: Anny Ballardini <anny.ballardini at gmail.com?
> <mailto:anny.ballardini at gmail.com>>?
> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Pirates?
> To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &, Views"?
> <new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu <mailto:new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>>?
> Date: Saturday, October 4, 2008, 12:29 PM?
>?
>?
> I read all the comments, I would like you to see the following:?
>?
> This is outrageous. These guys stole over 3,000 of my poems?
> and are passing them off as poems by Rachel Mallino, Sandra?
> Beasley, etc. etc.?
>?
> WTF???????
>?
> I deserve credit and compensation. I hope we can settle this?
> out of court, but if I have to sue to make sure these poems?
> appear under the name of their rightful author, Matt Cozart,?
> I'll do it.?
>?
> Posted by: Matt <http://mattcozart.blogspot.com/> on October?
> 3, 2008 10:23 PM?
>?
> Is there anybody who knows Matt Cozart? Can this be true??
>?
>?
>?
> On Sat, Oct 4, 2008 at 6:19 PM, cris cheek <cheekc at muohio.edu?
> <mailto:cheekc at muohio.edu>> wrote:?
>?
> i like my poem;-)?
>?
> it's short?
>?
> unless anybody has any lingering doubts it is "generated"?
> poetry?
>?
> some of it is more or less hilarious in terms of the?
> authors ascribed?
>?
> it doesn't bother me in the slightest?
>?
> the point is to generate conversation?
>?
> so it's clearly "working"?
>?
>?
> cris?
>?
> _______________________________________________?
> New-Poetry mailing list?
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu <mailto:New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>?
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry?
>?
>?
>?
>?
> -- > Anny Ballardini?
> http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/?
> http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome?
> http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html?
> I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to?
> a dancing star!?
>?
> _______________________________________________?
> New-Poetry mailing list?
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu <mailto:New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>?
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry?
>?
> >?
>?
>?
> _______________________________________________?
> New-Poetry mailing list?
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu <mailto:New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>?
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry?
>?
>?
>?
>?
> -- > Anny Ballardini?
> http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/?
> http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome?
> http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html?
> I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a > dancing star!?
>?
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------?
>?
> _______________________________________________?
> New-Poetry mailing list?
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu?
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry?
> ?
-- Tad Richards?
http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/?
http://opusforty.blogspot.com/?
?
Don't forget to order your copy of FILM NOIR!?
http://stores.lulu.com/store.php?fAcctID=2712239?
?
_______________________________________________?
New-Poetry mailing list?
New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu?
http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry?

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From anny.ballardini at gmail.com  Sun Oct  5 05:06:49 2008
From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2008 11:06:49 +0200
Subject: [New-Poetry] James Laughlin Award
Message-ID: <4b65c2d70810050206x5c8e15b4wd4abc7359bb16cad@mail.gmail.com>

*USTY MORRISON RECEIVES THE JAMES LAUGHLIN AWARD

$5,000 FOR AN OUTSTANDING SECOND BOOK*

New York, September 18?The Academy of American Poets announced today that
Rusty Morrison's collection *the true keeps calm biding its story* (Ahsahta
Press) was chosen by poets Rae Armantrout, Claudia Rankine, and Bruce Smith
to receive the 2008 James Laughlin
Award<http://www.poets.org/page.php/prmID/109?utm_source=pressrelease_091808&utm_medium=newsletter&utm_campaign=awards&utm_term=laughlin>,
which gives $5,000 to the most outstanding second book by an American poet
published in the previous year.

About the selection, Claudia Rankine says:

In Rusty Morrison's *the true calm keeps biding its story* the poem
transforms into a machine for transmitting lines across impossible
distances. These lines are formed by our most intimate self after the death
of someone close. Each poem, with its nine lines, as if to mock the lack of
nine lives, ends with the heartbreaking phrase "please advise." In the end
we, as readers, are left with a stunning collection, written into the
silence of everlasting loss.

http://www.poets.org/page.php/prmID/535



-- 
Anny Ballardini
http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html
I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing
star!
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From anny.ballardini at gmail.com  Sun Oct  5 12:05:32 2008
From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2008 18:05:32 +0200
Subject: [New-Poetry] Al Filreis
Message-ID: <4b65c2d70810050905m391b2224sbc1e9c8e0241f2b1@mail.gmail.com>

 To view a reading or seminar, go to our webcast instructions page:

                http://writing.upenn.edu/wh/webcasts/instructions.html.

If you have Quicktime already installed on your computer, you'll just click
"Start webcast" from this page.

- - -
*
KWH-TV schedule (all times Eastern Time):
*
*POEMTALK
October 7, 3:30 PM*
PoemTalk records episode #15: Lyn Hejinian's "constant change figures," with
Al Filreis, Tom Mandel, Bob Perelman, and Rodrigo Toscano.
http://writing.upenn.edu/wh/calendar/1008.php#7.

*THE NEW YORK POETS
November 4, 1:30 PM*
Listen in as Al Filreis and students of English 88 (modern and contemporary
poetry) discuss the New York School: Ashbery, O'Hara, Koch and others.
http://www.writing.upenn.edu/~afilreis/88v/chap800a.html<http://www.writing.upenn.edu/%7Eafilreis/88v/chap800a.html>

*EMILY DICKINSON WEBINAR
November 10, 7:00 PM*
This live, interactive "webinar" led by Al Filreis and Jessica Lowenthal
will allow viewers to participate in a discussion of an Emily Dickinson poem
via phone and internet. To participate, email wh at writing.upenn.edu
or call (215) 573-9748.
http://writing.upenn.edu/wh/calendar/1108.html#10.

*CELEBRATION OF WILLIAM CARLOS WILLIAMS
November 11, 6:00 PM*
We'll celebrate the 125th birthday of William Carlos Williams with talks and
readings by Sarah Dowling, erica kaufman, Pattie McCarthy, Jena Osman, and
Elizabeth Scanlon.
http://writing.upenn.edu/wh/calendar/1108.html#11.

*ASHBERY AND THE NON-NARRATIVE
November 13, 1:30 PM*
Listen in as Al Filreis and students of English 88 (modern and contemporary
poetry) discuss the poetry of John Ashbery.
http://www.writing.upenn.edu/~afilreis/88v/chap800a.html<http://www.writing.upenn.edu/%7Eafilreis/88v/chap800a.html>



 --

Al Filreis
Kelly Professor
Faculty Dir., Kelly Writers House
Dir., Center for Programs in Contemporary Writing
University of Pennsylvania

http://www.writing.upenn.edu/~afilreis<http://www.writing.upenn.edu/%7Eafilreis>








-- 
Anny Ballardini
http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html
I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing
star!
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From jfq at myuw.net  Sun Oct  5 12:55:05 2008
From: jfq at myuw.net (Jason Quackenbush)
Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2008 00:55:05 +0800
Subject: [New-Poetry] Pirates
In-Reply-To: <957762A3-5992-46C0-88FD-D0218B9A200E@muohio.edu>
References: <939279.8243.qm@web83304.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
	<5C954974E805449D81758635B86DC2BB@CoreDuo>
	<957762A3-5992-46C0-88FD-D0218B9A200E@muohio.edu>
Message-ID: <AD659D95-EC96-4194-B9BC-4127D7342100@myuw.net>

i like all three of mine, although one is more ME than the other two.  
I'd like to know how they put it together.

On Oct 5, 2008, at 12:19 AM, cris cheek wrote:

> i like my poem;-)
>
> it's short
>
> unless anybody has any lingering doubts it is "generated" poetry
>
> some of it is more or less hilarious in terms of the authors ascribed
>
> it doesn't bother me in the slightest
>
> the point is to generate conversation
>
> so it's clearly "working"
>
>
> cris
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry

Jason Quackenbush
jfq at myuw.net






From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net  Sun Oct  5 14:24:58 2008
From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman)
Date: Sun, 05 Oct 2008 13:24:58 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Pirates
In-Reply-To: <AD659D95-EC96-4194-B9BC-4127D7342100@myuw.net>
References: <939279.8243.qm@web83304.mail.sp1.yahoo.com><5C954974E805449D81758635B86DC2BB@CoreDuo><957762A3-5992-46C0-88FD-D0218B
	9A200E@muohio.edu> <AD659D95-EC96-4194-B9BC-4127D7342100@myuw.net>
Message-ID: <48E9067A.3020306@nut-n-but.net>

I was pretty happy to find out I didn't make the cut--until I discovered 
Dan Schneider didn't, either.  He and I seem about the only living 
American poets not  to, something that makes me wonder if knocking me 
into a tailspin by coupling me with that moron was really what this hoax 
was all about. . . .

--Bob G.



From anny.ballardini at gmail.com  Sun Oct  5 13:28:13 2008
From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2008 19:28:13 +0200
Subject: [New-Poetry] Pirates
In-Reply-To: <48E9067A.3020306@nut-n-but.net>
References: <939279.8243.qm@web83304.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
	<5C954974E805449D81758635B86DC2BB@CoreDuo>
	<AD659D95-EC96-4194-B9BC-4127D7342100@myuw.net>
	<48E9067A.3020306@nut-n-but.net>
Message-ID: <4b65c2d70810051028i22311538uf06b7f70efad8dc@mail.gmail.com>

Oh jeex Bob, a message like this could melt hearts of gold, let alone
average hearts like mine.


On Sun, Oct 5, 2008 at 8:24 PM, Bob Grumman <bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net>wrote:

> I was pretty happy to find out I didn't make the cut--until I discovered
> Dan Schneider didn't, either.  He and I seem about the only living American
> poets not  to, something that makes me wonder if knocking me into a tailspin
> by coupling me with that moron was really what this hoax was all about. . .
> .
>
> --Bob G.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>



-- 
Anny Ballardini
http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html
I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing
star!
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From jfq at myuw.net  Sun Oct  5 13:28:54 2008
From: jfq at myuw.net (Jason Quackenbush)
Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2008 01:28:54 +0800
Subject: [New-Poetry] Pirates
In-Reply-To: <48E9067A.3020306@nut-n-but.net>
References: <939279.8243.qm@web83304.mail.sp1.yahoo.com><5C954974E805449D81758635B86DC2BB@CoreDuo><957762A3-5992-46C0-88FD-D0218B
	9A200E@muohio.edu> <AD659D95-EC96-4194-B9BC-4127D7342100@myuw.net>
	<48E9067A.3020306@nut-n-but.net>
Message-ID: <FB6B36C2-E7C1-4C20-9E13-ECC947E6B498@myuw.net>

There are a few others who aren't. no dean young, no Dotie Bellamy, I  
haven't found any of the slam poets i've searched for. Not that  
that's particularly great company to be in, but I think you deserve  
to be in it Bob, and I hope the editors correct the omission for  
issue 2.

On Oct 6, 2008, at 2:24 AM, Bob Grumman wrote:

> I was pretty happy to find out I didn't make the cut--until I  
> discovered Dan Schneider didn't, either.  He and I seem about the  
> only living American poets not  to, something that makes me wonder  
> if knocking me into a tailspin by coupling me with that moron was  
> really what this hoax was all about. . . .
>
> --Bob G.
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry

Jason Quackenbush
jfq at myuw.net






From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net  Sun Oct  5 14:39:18 2008
From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman)
Date: Sun, 05 Oct 2008 13:39:18 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Pirates
In-Reply-To: <48E9067A.3020306@nut-n-but.net>
References: <939279.8243.qm@web83304.mail.sp1.yahoo.com><5C954974E805449D81758635B86DC2BB@CoreDuo><957762A3-5992-46C0-88FD-D0218B
	9A200E@muohio.edu> <AD659D95-EC96-4194-B9BC-4127D7342100@myuw.net>
	<48E9067A.3020306@nut-n-but.net>
Message-ID: <48E909D6.3030907@nut-n-but.net>

Oops, sorry for the name-calling.  I forgot what group I was posting 
to.  One group I frequently post to allows that kind of thing.  And I 
was recently reading Schneider's writings on me in which he calls me a 
liar--and, even worse, says I lack a sense of humor.  He also calls me 
mentally ill, which doesn't bother me.

--Bob G.



From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net  Sun Oct  5 14:42:00 2008
From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman)
Date: Sun, 05 Oct 2008 13:42:00 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Pirates
In-Reply-To: <4b65c2d70810051028i22311538uf06b7f70efad8dc@mail.gmail.com>
References: <939279.8243.qm@web83304.mail.sp1.yahoo.com><5C954974E805449D81758635B86DC2BB@CoreDuo><AD659D95-EC96-4194-B9BC-4127D7
	342100@myuw.net><48E9067A.3020306@nut-n-but.net>
	<4b65c2d70810051028i22311538uf06b7f70efad8dc@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <48E90A78.1030908@nut-n-but.net>

Anny Ballardini wrote:
> Oh jeex Bob, a message like this could melt hearts of gold, let alone 
> average hearts like mine.
>
Organize something, Anny!  We can't let them get away with this!  
Remember, if they do it to me, YOU could be next! 

--Bob





From JforJames at aol.com  Sun Oct  5 13:41:16 2008
From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2008 13:41:16 EDT
Subject: [New-Poetry] Pirates
Message-ID: <cd5.3d14acc5.361a563c@aol.com>

 
In a message dated 10/5/2008 1:20:49 PM Eastern Daylight Time,  bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net writes:

I was  pretty happy to find out I didn't make the cut--until I discovered 
Dan  Schneider didn't, either.  He and I seem about the only living  
American poets not  to, something that makes me wonder if knocking me  
into a tailspin by coupling me with that moron was really what this hoax  
was all about. . . .




Perhaps you're one of the few non-zombie poets left on earth...it seems  many poets are writing poems they don't remember writing, sleep-writing poems.  It's the water, it's gone airborne. Run now, Bob, run, before it's too  late.




**************New MapQuest Local shows what's happening at your destination.  Dining, Movies, Events, News & more. Try it out!      (http://local.mapquest.com/?ncid=emlcntnew00000001)
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From robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com  Sun Oct  5 13:53:06 2008
From: robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com (Robin Hamilton)
Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2008 18:53:06 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] Pirates
References: <cd5.3d14acc5.361a563c@aol.com>
Message-ID: <029F9EE3D01B4B66A0D7499541866803@CoreDuo>

It's becoming more and more obvious that, whatever the original intent of this sub-Duchamp fiasco, what's being plugged  into is the Eliza Syndrome.

        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ELIZA

R.
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: JforJames at aol.com 
  To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu 
  Sent: Sunday, October 05, 2008 6:41 PM
  Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Pirates


  In a message dated 10/5/2008 1:20:49 PM Eastern Daylight Time, bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net writes:
    I was pretty happy to find out I didn't make the cut--until I discovered 
    Dan Schneider didn't, either.  He and I seem about the only living 
    American poets not  to, something that makes me wonder if knocking me 
    into a tailspin by coupling me with that moron was really what this hoax 
    was all about. . . .

  Perhaps you're one of the few non-zombie poets left on earth...it seems many poets are writing poems they don't remember writing, sleep-writing poems. It's the water, it's gone airborne. Run now, Bob, run, before it's too late.
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From anny.ballardini at gmail.com  Sun Oct  5 13:53:52 2008
From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2008 19:53:52 +0200
Subject: [New-Poetry] Pirates
In-Reply-To: <cd5.3d14acc5.361a563c@aol.com>
References: <cd5.3d14acc5.361a563c@aol.com>
Message-ID: <4b65c2d70810051053y645b3d62hb8b2b99fc07c868d@mail.gmail.com>

We could simply do Issue 2!
Who wants to take part? I have plenty of work to recycle...


On Sun, Oct 5, 2008 at 7:41 PM, <JforJames at aol.com> wrote:

>  In a message dated 10/5/2008 1:20:49 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
> bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net writes:
>
> I was pretty happy to find out I didn't make the cut--until I discovered
> Dan Schneider didn't, either.  He and I seem about the only living
> American poets not  to, something that makes me wonder if knocking me
> into a tailspin by coupling me with that moron was really what this hoax
> was all about. . . .
>
>  Perhaps you're one of the few non-zombie poets left on earth...it seems
> many poets are writing poems they don't remember writing, sleep-writing
> poems. It's the water, it's gone airborne. Run now, Bob, run, before it's
> too late.
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
> New *MapQuest Local* shows what's happening at your destination. Dining,
> Movies, Events, News & more. Try it out<http://local.mapquest.com/?ncid=emlcntnew00000001>
> !
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
>


-- 
Anny Ballardini
http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html
I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing
star!
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From jfq at myuw.net  Sun Oct  5 13:55:17 2008
From: jfq at myuw.net (Jason Quackenbush)
Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2008 01:55:17 +0800
Subject: [New-Poetry] Pirates
In-Reply-To: <4b65c2d70810051053y645b3d62hb8b2b99fc07c868d@mail.gmail.com>
References: <cd5.3d14acc5.361a563c@aol.com>
	<4b65c2d70810051053y645b3d62hb8b2b99fc07c868d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <D259C589-7776-4F55-A168-438ADB6D34CF@myuw.net>

I'm in. I have a great piece of flarf i've never found a home for.

On Oct 6, 2008, at 1:53 AM, Anny Ballardini wrote:

> We could simply do Issue 2!
> Who wants to take part? I have plenty of work to recycle...
>
>
> On Sun, Oct 5, 2008 at 7:41 PM, <JforJames at aol.com> wrote:
>
>>  In a message dated 10/5/2008 1:20:49 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
>> bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net writes:
>>
>> I was pretty happy to find out I didn't make the cut--until I  
>> discovered
>> Dan Schneider didn't, either.  He and I seem about the only living
>> American poets not  to, something that makes me wonder if knocking me
>> into a tailspin by coupling me with that moron was really what  
>> this hoax
>> was all about. . . .
>>
>>  Perhaps you're one of the few non-zombie poets left on earth...it  
>> seems
>> many poets are writing poems they don't remember writing, sleep- 
>> writing
>> poems. It's the water, it's gone airborne. Run now, Bob, run,  
>> before it's
>> too late.
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>> New *MapQuest Local* shows what's happening at your destination.  
>> Dining,
>> Movies, Events, News & more. Try it out<http://local.mapquest.com/? 
>> ncid=emlcntnew00000001>
>> !
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> New-Poetry mailing list
>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>>
>>
>
>
> -- 
> Anny Ballardini
> http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
> http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
> http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html
> I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a  
> dancing
> star!
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry

Jason Quackenbush
jfq at myuw.net






From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net  Sun Oct  5 15:42:54 2008
From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman)
Date: Sun, 05 Oct 2008 14:42:54 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Pirates
In-Reply-To: <FB6B36C2-E7C1-4C20-9E13-ECC947E6B498@myuw.net>
References: <939279.8243.qm@web83304.mail.sp1.yahoo.com><5C954974E805449D81758635B86DC2BB@CoreDuo><957762A3-5992-46C0-88FD-D0218B
	9A200E@muohio.edu>
	<AD659D95-EC96-4194-B9BC-4127D7342100@myuw.net><48E9067A.3020306@nut-n-but.net>
	<FB6B36C2-E7C1-4C20-9E13-ECC947E6B498@myuw.net>
Message-ID: <48E918BE.1040203@nut-n-but.net>

Jason Quackenbush wrote:
> There are a few others who aren't. no dean young, no Dotie Bellamy, I 
> haven't found any of the slam poets i've searched for. Not that that's 
> particularly great company to be in, but I think you deserve to be in 
> it Bob, and I hope the editors correct the omission for issue 2.
Hey, I don't wanna be in it, Jason, I just want Schneider to be in it!  
And everyone else but me!

--Bob



From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net  Sun Oct  5 15:48:37 2008
From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman)
Date: Sun, 05 Oct 2008 14:48:37 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Pirates
In-Reply-To: <FB6B36C2-E7C1-4C20-9E13-ECC947E6B498@myuw.net>
References: <939279.8243.qm@web83304.mail.sp1.yahoo.com><5C954974E805449D81758635B86DC2BB@CoreDuo><957762A3-5992-46C0-88FD-D0218B
	9A200E@muohio.edu>
	<AD659D95-EC96-4194-B9BC-4127D7342100@myuw.net><48E9067A.3020306@nut-n-but.net>
	<FB6B36C2-E7C1-4C20-9E13-ECC947E6B498@myuw.net>
Message-ID: <48E91A15.3040402@nut-n-but.net>

 > There are a few others who aren't. no dean young, no Dotie Bellamy, I
 >  haven't found any of the slam poets i've searched for.

It's Dodie, isn't it?  Anyway, as I was searching the thing, I wondered 
if there were any list of living American poets.  It would be useful, I 
think--something for one of the establishment organizations to do.  
Alphabetized list of everyone mentioned in the Internet as a poet 
shouldn't be too hard to make,  Maybe posted at Wikipoo so names could 
be added, and subtracted.

--Bob G.




From JforJames at aol.com  Sun Oct  5 15:19:36 2008
From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2008 15:19:36 EDT
Subject: [New-Poetry] Pirates
Message-ID: <c13.413f8639.361a6d48@aol.com>

 
In a message dated 10/5/2008 2:43:58 PM Eastern Daylight Time,  bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net writes:

It's  Dodie, isn't it?  Anyway, as I was searching the thing, I wondered 
if  there were any list of living American poets.  It would be useful, I  
think--something for one of the establishment organizations to do.   
Alphabetized list of everyone mentioned in the Internet as a poet  
shouldn't be too hard to make,  Maybe posted at Wikipoo so names  could 
be added, and subtracted.



Because I'm an inverterate list maker, I've got one. (I'm sure it misses  many
poets. As I said on my blog the other day, "For  every poet you know, there are ten 
other crazy and beautiful ones you've never know." ) Also, keeping the  living 
and dead separated is not an easy task for the list maker. And the  distinction USAmerican
is tricky, isn't it. How many years do you have to live here to get that  badge (and maybe
some don't want it)?
I'll post my list later. It's on my laptop.
Finnegan



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From JforJames at aol.com  Sun Oct  5 15:23:26 2008
From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2008 15:23:26 EDT
Subject: [New-Poetry] Poems by others: "Wedding Cake," by Naomi Shihab Nye 
Message-ID: <c9f.3b9db401.361a6e2e@aol.com>

Wedding Cake
 
Once on plane
a woman asked me to hold her baby
and disappeared.
I  figured it was safe,
our being on a plane and all.
How far could she  go?
 
She returned one hour later,
having changed her clothes
and washed  her hair.
I didn???t recognize her.
 
By this time the baby
and I had examined 
each other???s necks.
We  had cried a little.
I had a silver bracelet
and a watch.
Gold studs  glittered 
in the baby???s ears.
She wore a tiny white dress
leafed with  layers
like a wedding cake.
 
I did not want
to give her back.
 
The baby???s curls coiled tightly
against her scalp,
another  alphabet.
I read new, new, new.
My mother gets tired.
I???ll  chew your hand.
 
The baby left my skirt crumpled,
my lap aching.
Now I???m her secret  guardian,
the little nub of dream
that rises slightly
but won???t come  clear.
 
As she grows,
as she feels ill at ease,
I???ll bob my knee.
 
What will she forget?
Whom will she marry?
He???d better check with  me.
I???ll say once she flew
dressed like a cake
between two doilies of  cloud.
She could slip the card into a pocket,
pull it out.
Already  she knew the small finger
was funnier than the whole arm.
 

--Naomi Shihab Nye, Fuel, Boa Editions,  1998




**************New MapQuest Local shows what's happening at your destination.  Dining, Movies, Events, News & more. Try it out!      (http://local.mapquest.com/?ncid=emlcntnew00000001)
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From halvard at earthlink.net  Sun Oct  5 15:22:48 2008
From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson)
Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2008 14:22:48 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] A little something by David Foster Wallace
Message-ID: <CF45108A-8DF3-4925-A71F-6A0CB1741116@earthlink.net>


http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2008/sep/20/fiction

McCain / Palin -- Just say thanks but no thanks.
They're a bridge to nowhere.

Halvard Johnson
================
halvard at earthlink.net
halvard at gmail.com
http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html
http://entropyandme.blogspot.com
http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com
http://www.hamiltonstone.org
http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html

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From halvard at earthlink.net  Sun Oct  5 15:47:43 2008
From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson)
Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2008 14:47:43 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Afghanistan
Message-ID: <0B09390A-1554-48DD-A28E-8B89CB85D4ED@earthlink.net>

Afghanistan

A fellow gave her a nice invitation. She took
a nap. After finding grown-ups have aneurisms
I stayed adolescent. Now, a fellow gives her

another nice invitation. She takes another
nap. Afghanistan feels good. Have
another nap. I've stopped taking any notice.


Hal

Halvard Johnson
================
halvard at earthlink.net
halvard at gmail.com
http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html
http://entropyandme.blogspot.com
http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com
http://www.hamiltonstone.org
http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html



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From anny.ballardini at gmail.com  Sun Oct  5 16:40:50 2008
From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2008 22:40:50 +0200
Subject: [New-Poetry] Poems by others: "Wedding Cake, " by Naomi Shihab Nye
In-Reply-To: <c9f.3b9db401.361a6e2e@aol.com>
References: <c9f.3b9db401.361a6e2e@aol.com>
Message-ID: <4b65c2d70810051340q65c24429y1f49d9bc674d7d8@mail.gmail.com>

What a lovely poem. I was in this tiny Sicilian shop to buy the best olives
in town, and a five year old boy just sweetly bumped into me, but the way he
did it was also invasive, and since I am an adult, I just smiled at him
controlling any whatsoever reaction I could have, and he looked at me with
the funniest expression, and his mother said: "He thought you were me." And
I said as if I had to apologize: "We are both wearing some greenish colors."
Caught in a net.

On Sun, Oct 5, 2008 at 9:23 PM, <JforJames at aol.com> wrote:

>  Wedding Cake
>
> Once on plane
> a woman asked me to hold her baby
> and disappeared.
> I figured it was safe,
> our being on a plane and all.
> How far could she go?
>
> She returned one hour later,
> having changed her clothes
> and washed her hair.
> I didn't recognize her.
>
> By this time the baby
> and I had examined
> each other's necks.
> We had cried a little.
> I had a silver bracelet
> and a watch.
> Gold studs glittered
> in the baby's ears.
> She wore a tiny white dress
> leafed with layers
> like a wedding cake.
>
> I did not want
> to give her back.
>
> The baby's curls coiled tightly
> against her scalp,
> another alphabet.
> I read *new,* *new, new.
> My mother gets tired.
> I'll chew your hand.*
>
> The baby left my skirt crumpled,
> my lap aching.
> Now I'm her secret guardian,
> the little nub of dream
> that rises slightly
> but won't come clear.
>
> As she grows,
> as she feels ill at ease,
> I'll bob my knee.
>
> What will she forget?
> Whom will she marry?
> He'd better check with me.
> I'll say once she flew
> dressed like a cake
> between two doilies of cloud.
> She could slip the card into a pocket,
> pull it out.
> Already she knew the small finger
> was funnier than the whole arm.
>
>
> --Naomi Shihab Nye, *Fuel*, Boa Editions, 1998
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
> New *MapQuest Local* shows what's happening at your destination. Dining,
> Movies, Events, News & more. Try it out<http://local.mapquest.com/?ncid=emlcntnew00000001>
> !
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
>


-- 
Anny Ballardini
http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html
I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing
star!
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From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net  Sun Oct  5 18:42:16 2008
From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman)
Date: Sun, 05 Oct 2008 17:42:16 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Pirates
In-Reply-To: <c13.413f8639.361a6d48@aol.com>
References: <c13.413f8639.361a6d48@aol.com>
Message-ID: <48E942C8.3090100@nut-n-but.net>

JforJames at aol.com wrote:
> In a message dated 10/5/2008 2:43:58 PM Eastern Daylight Time, 
> bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net writes:
>
>     It's Dodie, isn't it?  Anyway, as I was searching the thing, I
>     wondered
>     if there were any list of living American poets.  It would be
>     useful, I
>     think--something for one of the establishment organizations to do. 
>     Alphabetized list of everyone mentioned in the Internet as a poet
>     shouldn't be too hard to make,  Maybe posted at Wikipoo so names
>     could
>     be added, and subtracted.
>
> Because I'm an inverterate list maker, I've got one. (I'm sure it 
> misses many
> poets. As I said on my blog the other day, "For every poet you know, 
> there are ten
> other crazy and beautiful ones you've never know." ) Also, keeping the 
> living
> and dead separated is not an easy task for the list maker. And the 
> distinction USAmerican
> is tricky, isn't it. How many years do you have to live here to get 
> that badge (and maybe
> some don't want it)?
> I'll post my list later. It's on my laptop.
> Finnegan
>
How about all poets who have published English-language poems in an 
American publication--with asterisks next to know non-Americans?  
Anyway, it would be a good step toward (heh heh) the classification of 
poets into my taxonomical boxes so as to get some idea of the peoplescape.

--Bob
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From jforjames at aol.com  Sun Oct  5 20:51:40 2008
From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 05 Oct 2008 20:51:40 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] The List
Message-ID: <8CAF564D4215113-B2C-310E@FWM-M04.sysops.aol.com>

I thought my list was bit bigger (approx. 950 names)
American (I think) and living (I hope)...especially sorry
if I missed some NewPoetry folks...

Millicent Borges Accardi 
Diane Ackerman 
Kim Addonizio 
Julia Agoos 
Jack Ag?eros? 
?Ai 
Susan Aizenberg 
Sandra Alcosser 
Jane? Aleshire 
Elizabeth Alexander 
Will Alexander 
Sherman Alexie 
Miguel Algarin 
Kazim Ali 
Funk Alison 
Dick? Allen 
Julie Alvarez 
mIEKAL aND 
Doug Anderson 
Jack Anderson 
Bruce Andrews 
Nin Andrews 
Tom Andrews 
Ralph Angel 
Maya Angelou 
Talvikki Ansel 
David Antin 
?Antler 
Philip Appleman 
Jack Argueros 
Rae Armantrout 
Bob Arnold 
Craig Arnold 
John Ash 
John Ashbery 
Renee Ashley 
Donald Everett Axinn 
Jimmy Santiago Baca 
David Baker 
John Balaban? 
Peter Balakian 
Anna Balint 
Mary Jo? Bang 
Amiri Baraka 
Walter Bargen 
Walter Bargen 
Coleman Barks 
Jim Barnes 
Aliki Barnstone 
Dennis Barone 
Gerald Barrax 
Dorothy Barresi 
Ellen Bass 
Wendy Battin 
Bruce Bauer 
Judith Baumel 
Bruce Bawer? 
J. P. Dancing Bear 
Bruce Beasley 
Paul? Beatty 
Robin Becker 
Joshua Beckman 
Robin Behn 
Erin Belieu? 
Marvin Bell 
Dodie Bellamy 
Aaron Belz 
John Bensko 
Steve Benson 
Stephen Berg 
Carol Berge 
Bill Berkson 
Charles Bernstein 
Anselm Berrigan 
Wendell Berry 
Mei-Mei Berssenbrugge 
Jill Bialosky 
Frank Bidart 
Linda? Bierds 
George Bilgere 
Sophie Cabot Black 
Star Black 
Robin Blaser 
Randy Blasing 
Chana Bloch 
Michael=C
2 Blumenthal 
Robert Bly 
Michelle Boisseau 
Christian Bok 
Tom Bolt 
Bruce Bond 
Laure-Anne Booselar? 
Marianne Boruch 
Laura Boss 
David Bottoms 
Kevin Bowen 
Catherine Bowman 
George Bradley? 
John Bradley? 
Joe Brainard 
Kate Braverman 
Kim Bridgford 
Geoffrey Brock 
Lucie? Brock-Broido 
David Bromige? 
Catherine Savage Brosman 
Olga Broumas 
Joel Brouwer 
Fleda Brown 
Kurt Brown 
Lee Ann? Brown 
Stephanie Brown 
Michael? Brown? 
Joseph Bruchac 
Sharon Bryan 
Christopher Buckley 
Alexandra Hollander Budy 
Michael J. Bugeja 
Michael? Burkard 
Ralph Burns 
Stephen Burt 
Mairead Byrne 
Reggie Cabico 
Peter Campion 
Rafael? Campo 
Nick Carbo 
William Carpenter 
Jim? Carrol 
Michael? Casey 
Cyrus Cassells 
Turner Cassity 
Ana Castillo 
Grace Cavalieri 
Richard? Cecil 
James Cervantes 
Lorna Dee Cervantes 
Victoria Chang 
Fred Chappell 
Maxine Chernoff 
Kelly Cherry 
Richard? Chess 
Dan Chiasson 
Justin Chin 
Marilyn Chin 
Michael? Chitwood? 
Nicholas Christopher? 
Sandra Cisneros 
David Citino 
Tom Clark 
Killarny Clary 
David Clewell 
Lucille Clifton 
Joshua Clover 
Judith Ortiz Cofer 
Henri Cole 
Norma Cole? 
Wanda Coleman 
Michael? Collier 
Billy Collins 
Martha Collins 
Michael? Collins 
Gillian Connelly 
C.A. Conrad 
Carol Conroy 
Peter Cooley 
Clark Coolidge 
William Corbett 
Robert Cording 
Andre Cordrescu 
Alfred Corn 
Sam Cornish 
Jayne Cortez 
Mark Cox 
Steve Cramer =0
ADouglas Crase? 
Morri Creech 
Barbara Crooker 
Victor Hernandez Cruz? 
Philip Dacey? 
Beverly Dahlen? 
Steve Dalichinsky 
Catherine Daly 
Robert Dana 
Jim Daniels 
Kate Daniels 
Gayle Danley? 
Tina Darragh 
Michael Davidson 
Jordan Davis 
William Virgil Davis 
Peter Davison 
Cort Day 
Madeline Defrees 
Richard? Deming 
Chard DeNiord 
Carl Dennis 
Theodore Deppe 
Diana Der-Hovanesian 
Toi Derricotte 
Deborah Digges 
Linh Dihn 
Ray DiPalma 
W. S. DiPiero 
Diane DiPrima 
Stuart Dischell 
Gregory Djanikian 
Stephen Dobyns 
Wayne Dodd? 
Sharon Dolin 
Joe Donahue 
Matthew Donovan 
Stacy Doris 
Mark Doty 
Rita Dove 
Sharon Dubiago 
Norman Dubie 
Joseph Duemer 
Denise Duhamel 
Stephen Dunn 
Rachel Blau Duplessis 
Marcella Durand 
Cornelius Eady 
Gerald Early? 
George Economu 
Russell Edson 
W. D. Ehrhart 
Thomas Sayers Ellis 
Lynn Emanual 
Claudia Emerson 
Anita Endrezze 
Elaine Equi 
Louise Erdrich? 
Clayton Eshleman 
Martin Espada 
Peter Everwine 
Kathy Fagan 
B. H. Fairchild 
Patricia Fargnoli
Andrew Feld 
Irving Feldman 
Beth Ann Fennelly 
Lawrence Ferlinghetti 
David Ferry 
Edward Field 
Annie Finch 
Gary? Fincke? 
Donald Finkel 
Susan Firer 
Charles Fishman 
Nick Flynn 
Richard? Foerester 
Jack Foley 
Carolyn Forche 
Ed Foster 
Sesshu Foster 
Graham Foust 
Hugh Fox 
Jan Freeman 
Stuart Freibert? 
Daisy Fried? 
Benjamin Friedlander 
Alice Friman 
Carol Frost 
Richard? Frost 
Alice Fulton 
Al
ison Funk? 
Erica Funkhouser 
Jonathan Galassi 
Tess Gallagher 
James Galvin 
Brendan Galvin? 
Forrest Gander 
Peter Ganick 
Max Garland 
Deborah Garrison 
Frank X. Gaspar 
Geoffrey Gatza 
Dan Gerber 
Amy Gerstler 
Reginald Gibbons? 
Robert Gibbs? 
Margaret Gibson 
Jack Gilbert 
Sandra M. Gilbert 
Gary? Gildner 
Maria Maziotti Gillan 
Dana Gioia 
Niki Giovanni 
C.S. Giscombe 
Michael? Gizzi? 
Peter Gizzi? 
Diane Glancy? 
Elton Glaser 
Greg Glazner? 
Chris Glomski 
Louise? Gl?ck 
John Godfrey 
Douglas Goetsche 
Albert Goldbarth
Kenneth Goldsmith? 
Beckian Fritz Goldberg 
Lorrie Goldensohn 
Ray Gonzalez 
Rigoberto Gonz?lez 
Sarah Gorham 
Michael Gottlieb 
Henry Gould 
David Graham 
Jorie Graham 
Judy Grahn 
Jeffrey Greene 
Richard? Greenfield 
Ted Greenwald 
Deborah Greger 
Linda? Gregerson 
Linda? Gregg 
Robert Grenier 
Emily Grosholz 
Alan Grosman 
Bob Grumman 
Gabriel Gudding 
R.S. Gwynn 
Marilyn Hacker 
Rachel Hadas 
Jessica Hagedorn 
Kimiko Hahn 
Susan Hahn 
John Haines? 
Daniel Hall 
Donald Hall 
James Baker? Hall 
Mark Halliday 
Mark Halperin? 
Daniel Halpern? 
Barbara Hamby 
Forrest Hamer 
Sam Hamill 
C.G. Hanzlicek 
Joy Harjo 
William Harmon 
Michael S. Harper 
Jeffrey Harrison 
Jim Harrison? 
Carla Harryman 
Mathea Harvey 
Lola Haskins 
Robert Hass 
William Hathaway 
James Haug 
Brooks Haxton 
Terrance Hayes 
Samuel Hazo 
Michael Heffernan 
Lyn Hejinian 
Michael20Heller 
Barbara Hemming 
Brian Henry 
Juan Felipe Herrera 
Robert Hershon 
William Heyen 
Bob Hicok 
Conrad Hilbery 
John Hildebidle 
Brenda Hillman 
Edward Hirsch 
Jack Hirschman 
Jane? Hirshfield 
H. L. Hix 
Tony Hoagland 
Jen Hofer 
Michael? Hoffman? 
Linda? Hogan 
Jonathan Holden 
John Hollander 
Anselm Hollo 
Amy Holman 
Bob Holman 
Janet Holmes 
Garrett Hongo 
Paul? Hoover 
David Hopes 
John? Hoppenthaler 
Joan Houlihan 
Richard? Howard 
Fanny Howe 
Marie Howe 
Susan Howe 
Christopher Howells 
Andrew Hudgins 
T.R. Hummer 
Erica Hunt 
Collete Inez 
P. Inman 
Kenneth Irby 
Mark Irwin 
Major Jackson 
Richard? Jackson 
Gray Jacobik 
Phylis Janowitz? 
Mark? Jarman 
Lisa Jarnot 
Laura Jensen 
Kent Johnson 
Peter Johnson 
Brian Johnson? 
Denis Johnson? 
Halvard Johnson? 
Hettie Jones 
Richard? Jones 
Rodney Jones 
Erica Jong 
Pierre Joris? 
Alison Joseph 
Lawrence Joseph 
George Kalamaras 
Mary Karr 
Julia Kasdorf 
Laura Kasischke 
Joy Katz 
Claudia Keelan 
George Keithley 
David Keller 
Bridget Pegeen Kelly 
Robert Kelly 
X. J. Kennedy 
Richard? Kenney 
Maurice Kenny 
Kevin Killian 
Myung Mi Kim 
Burt Kimmelman 
Amy King 
Galway Kinnell 
Susan Kinsolving 
Mary Kinzie 
David Kirby 
Karl Kirchwey 
Adam Kirsch 
Judith Kitchen 
Carolyn Kizer 
August Kleinzahler 
William Kloefkorn 
John Knoepfle 
Bill Knott 
Jennifer L. Knox 
Ron Koertge 
Wayne Koestenbaum 
John Koethe 
Yusef K
omunyakaa 
Ted Kooser 
Richard? Kostelanntz 
Steve Kowit 
Joanne Kryger 
Marilyn Krysl 
Nancy Kuhl 
Maxine Kumin 
Laurie Kutchins 
Gregg Kuzma 
Melissa Kwasny 
Joanne Kyger 
R.D. Laing 
Paul? Lake 
Michael Lally 
Philip Lamantia 
Joan Larkin 
John Latta 
Ann? Lauterbach 
Dorianne Laux 
Rachel Lavitsky 
Hank Lazer 
Sydney Lea 
Mary Leader 
Joseph Lease 
Katie Lederer 
David Lee 
Li-Young Lee 
Jim Lefwich 
Ursula LeGuinn 
David Lehman 
Brad Leithauser? 
Ben Lerner 
Dana Levin 
Phillis Levin 
Jeffrey Levine 
Mark Levine 
Philip? Levine 
Rachel Levitsky 
Lawrence Lieberman 
Lyn Lifshin 
Frank Lima 
Michael Lind 
Beth Lisick 
Timothy Liu 
Margaret Lloyd 
Gerald Locklin 
Rachel Loden 
William Logan 
Anthony Lombardo 
Gian Lombardo 
Robert Long 
Robert Hill Long 
James Longenbach 
Philip Lopate? 
A. Loudermilk 
Bill Louma 
Lisa Lubasch 
Susan Ludvigson 
Bill Luoma 
Thomas Lux 
Thomas Lynch 
Nathanial Mackey 
Haki Madhubuti 
Al Maginnes 
Clarence Major 
devorah major 
Peter Makuck 
Taylor Mali 
Tom Mandel 
Sarah Manguso 
Fred Marchant 
Paul? Mariani 
Reggie Marra 
Charles Martin 
Dionisio D. Martinez 
Valerie Martinez 
Cate Marvin 
Dave Mason 
Dan Masterson 
Harry Mathews 
Cleopatra Mathis 
John Matthias 
Bernadette Mayer 
Jonathan Mayhew 
Ben Mazer 
Gail Mazur 
Mekeel McBride. 
Shara McCallum 
Janet McCann 
Richard? McCann 
Linda? McCarriston 
J. D. McClatchy 
Davis McCombs 
Jeffrey McDaniel 
Walt McDonald 0ARobert McDowell 
Michael? McFee 
Campbell McGrath 
Michael? McGrath? 
Heather McHugh 
Tom McKeon 
Rod McKuen 
Lynne McMahon 
James McManus 
James McMichael 
Mark McMorris 
Wesley McNair 
Sandra McPherson 
Molly McQuade 
Joyelle McSweeney
Gwyn McVay 
Jane? Mead 
Pablo Medina 
Jay? Meek 
Peter Meinke 
David Meltzer 
Samuel Menashe 
Christopher Merrill 
W. S. Merwin 
Gary? Metras 
Philip Metres 
Simone Meunch 
Bernadette Meyer 
Robert Mezey 
E. Ethebert Miller 
Chelsey Minnis 
Roger Mitchell 
Susan Mitchell 
Ange Mlinko 
Wendy Mnookin 
Albert Mobilio 
Jeff Mock 
Kasey Silem Mohammad? 
Carol Moldaw 
N. Scott Momaday 
Honor Moore 
Todd Moore 
Pat Mora 
Frederick Morgan 
Robert Morgan 
Laura Moriarty 
Malena M?rling? 
Tracie Morris 
Herbert Morris? 
Rusty Morrison 
Michael Morse 
Thylias Moss 
Jennifer Moxley 
Lisel Mueller 
Paul? Muldoon 
Harryette Mullen 
Laura Mullen 
David Mura 
Sheila E. Murphy 
Carol Muske (Dukes) 
Jack Myers 
Eileen Myles 
Joe Napora 
Leonard Nathan 
Aldon Neilson 
Marilyn Nelson 
Mark Nepo 
Leslea Newman 
Aimee? Nezhukumatathil? 
B.Z. Niditch 
Kathleen Norris 
Charles North 
Alice Notley 
D. Nurkse 
Naomi Shihab Nye 
Michael O'Brien 
Ed Ochester 
Sharon Olds 
Carole Oles 
Mary Oliver 
William Olsen 
Toby Olson 
Tom Orange 
Steve Orlen 
Gregory Orr 
Christian Ortega 
Simon Ortiz? 
Jacqueline Osherow 
Jena Osman 
Alicia Ostriker 
Maureen Owen 
Rochelle Owens 
Robert Pac
k 
Ron Padgett 
Frankie Paino 
Michael? Palmer 
Eric Pankey? 
Greg Pape 
Jay Parini 
Cathy Hong Park 
Alan Michael Parker 
Linda? Pastan 
William B. Patrick 
G.E. Patterson 
Ed Pavlic? 
Molly Peacock 
Willie Perdomo 
Lucia Perillo 
Bob Perlman 
Simon Pershik 
Robert Peters 
Carl Phillips 
Dennis Phillips 
Robert Phillips 
Wanda Phipps 
Marge Piercy 
Robert Pinsky 
Nick Piombino 
Stanley Plumly 
Robert Polito 
Marie Ponsot 
Carol Potter 
D. A. Powell 
Jim Powell 
Minnie Bruce Pratt 
Reynolds Price? 
Kevin Prufer 
Wyatt Prunty 
Jason Quakenbush 
Lawrence Raab 
Charles Rafferty? 
James Ragan 
Bin Ramke 
Claudia Rankine 
Barbara Ras 
Tom Raworth 
David Ray 
Judy Ray 
Eugene Redmond 
Spencer Reece 
Ishmael Reed 
D.J. Renegade 
Joan Rettalack 
Donald Revell 
Barbara Jane Reyes 
Adrienne Rich 
Susan Rich 
Tad Richards 
James Richardson 
Alberto Rios 
Carter Rivard 
David Rivard 
Ed Roberson 
Kit Robinson 
Stephen Rodefer 
Luis J. Rodriguez 
Adelia Rodriguez? 
Pattiann Rogers 
Matthew Rohrer 
David Romveldt? 
Martha Ronk 
Wendy Rose 
Liz Rosenberg 
Clare Rossini 
Jerome Rothenberg 
Gibbons Ruark 
Mark Rudman 
Mary Ruefle 
Vern Rutsala 
Kay Ryan 
Michael? Ryan 
William Ryan 
Ira Sadoff 
Miriam Sagan 
Natasha Saje 
Jerome Sala 
Mary Jo? Salter 
Fiona Sampson 
Sonia Sanchez 
Stephen Sandy 
Reg Saner 
Sherod Santos 
?Sapphire 
Cheryl Savageau 
Aram Sayoran 
Leslie Scalapino 
Maxine Scates 
Michael=2
0Scharf 
Margot Schlipp 
Dennis Schmitz 
Gjertud Schnackenberg 
Grace Schulman 
Philip Schultz 
Susan Schultz 
Gerald Schwartz 
Howard Schwartz 
Leonard Schwartz 
Lloyd Schwartz 
Lynn Sharon Schwartz?? 
Frederick Seidel 
Hugh Seidman 
Rebecca Seiferle 
Eric Murphy Selinger 
Peter Serchuk 
Vikram Seth 
Patty Seyburn 
Ntozake Shange 
Ravi Shankar 
Alan Shapiro 
David Shapiro 
Harvey Shapiro 
Don Share 
Brenda Shaughnessy 
Laurie Sheck 
Eve Shellnut 
Richard? Shelton 
Evie Shockley 
Enid Shomer? 
Jane? Shore 
Gary? Short 
Beau Sia 
Tim Siebles? 
Eleni Sikelianos 
Richard? Siken 
Edgar Gabriel Silex 
Leslie Marmon Silko? 
Ron Silliman 
Charles? Simic 
Maurya Simon 
Louis? Simpson 
Hal Sirowitz 
Jeffrey Skinner 
Knute Skinner 
Floyd Skloot 
David Slavitt 
Tom Sleigh 
Charlie Smith 
Dale Smith 
Dave? Smith 
Patricia? Smith 
R.T. Smith 
Rod Smith 
Tracy K. Smith 
W. Loran Smith 
William Jay Smith 
Marc Smith? 
Rod Smith? 
Frederick Smock 
Susan Snively 
W.D. Snodgrass 
Carol Snow 
Gary? Snyder 
Jason Somer? 
Cathy Song 
Gary? Soto 
Marcia Southwick 
Barry Spacks 
Juliana Spahr 
?Sparrow 
Laurel Speer 
Elizabeth Spires 
Kathleen Spivack 
David St. John 
Primus St. John 
Kim Stafford 
A. E. Stallings 
Maura Stanton 
Timothy? Steele 
Kevin Stein 
Gerald Stern 
Pamela Stewart 
Susan Stewart 
Peter Stitt? 
Ruth Stone 
Mark Strand 
Stephanie Strickland 
Chris Stroffolino 
Jose
ph Stroud 
Lucian Stryk 
Dabney Stuart 
Virgil Suarez 
Julie Suk 
John Suorecki 
Teresa Svoboda 
Robert Sward 
Cole Swenson 
Karen Swenson 
Wally Swist 
William Sylvester 
Arthur Sze 
John Taggart? 
John Tagliabue? 
Dorothea Tanning 
Stephen Tapscott 
Nathaniel Tarn 
James Tate 
Eleanor Ross Taylor 
Henry? Taylor 
Roberto Tejada 
Diane Thiel 
Lorenzo Thomas? 
Robert Thomas? 
Sue Ellen Thompson 
Richard? Tillinghast 
Daniel Tobin 
Joseph Torra 
Rodrigo Toscano 
Tony Tost 
Tony Towle 
Ann Townsend 
Natasha Tretheway 
David Trinidad 
Quincy? Troupe 
Lewis Turco 
Brian Turner 
Frederick Turner 
Chase Twitchell 
Leslie Ullman 
John Updike 
Lee Upton 
Jean Valentine 
Sally Van Doren 
Michael? Van Wallagen? 
Nance Van Winckel 
Paul? Vangelisti 
Reetika Vazirani 
Tino Villanueva 
Paul? Violi 
Arthur Vogelsang 
Ellen Bryant Voigt 
Connie Voisine 
Karen Volkmann 
Judith Vollmer 
David Wagoner 
Diane Wakowski 
Derek Walcott 
Anne Waldman 
Liz Waldner 
Keith Waldrop 
Rosemaire Waldrop? 
Frank X Walker 
Laura Walker 
Mark Wallace 
Ronald Wallace 
?Wammo 
Connie Wanek 
Diane Ward? 
Thom Ward? 
Belle Waring 
Roseanna Warren 
Lewis Warsh 
Michael? Waters 
Ellen Dore Watson 
Barrett Watten 
Michael Afaa? Weaver 
Charles Harper Webb 
Joe Wederoth 
Rebecca Wee 
Bruce Weigl 
Roger Weingarten 
Susan Wheeler 
J.P. White 
Ron Whitehead 
Eliot Wienberger 
Dara Wier 
Richard? Wilbur 
Nancy Willard 
St
eve Willard 
C. K.? Williams 
Miller Williams 
Saul Williams 
Tyrone Williams 
Alan Williamson 
Greg Williamson 
Elizabeth Willis 
Eleanor Wilner 
Christian Wiman 
Terrance Winch 
Anne Winters 
David Wojahn 
Rebecca Wolff 
Susan Wood 
Jeff Worley 
Baron Wormser 
C. D. Wright 
Carolyne L. Wright 
Charles Wright 
Franz Wright 
Jay? Wright 
Robert Wrigley 
John Yau 
Stephen Yenser? 
David Yezzi 
Jake Adam York 
Al Young 
David? Young 
Dean Young 
Kevin Young 
Gary? Young? 
Ray A. Young Bear 
Matthew Zapruder 
Cynthia Zarin? 
Paul? Zimmer 
Harriet Zinnes 
Martha Zwieg 
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From ATambellini01 at aol.com  Sun Oct  5 21:04:31 2008
From: ATambellini01 at aol.com (ATambellini01 at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2008 21:04:31 EDT
Subject: [New-Poetry] The List
Message-ID: <c9e.3bc75520.361abe1f@aol.com>

and:
Askia Toure'
Aldo Tambellini
Brenda Walcott
Tontongi
Joselyn Almeida
George Wallace
Nancy Mercado
Tony Medina
Ishmael Reed
 



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From Opus40-01 at opus40.org  Sun Oct  5 21:43:26 2008
From: Opus40-01 at opus40.org (TheOldMole)
Date: Sun, 05 Oct 2008 21:43:26 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] The List
In-Reply-To: <8CAF564D4215113-B2C-310E@FWM-M04.sysops.aol.com>
References: <8CAF564D4215113-B2C-310E@FWM-M04.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <48E96D3E.1060907@opus40.org>

What have I missed? What's this a list of?


jforjames at aol.com wrote:
> I thought my list was bit bigger (approx. 950 names)
> American (I think) and living (I hope)...especially sorry
> if I missed some NewPoetry folks...
>
> Millicent Borges Accardi
> Diane Ackerman
> Kim Addonizio
> Julia Agoos
> Jack Ag?eros 
>  Ai
> Susan Aizenberg
> Sandra Alcosser
> Jane  Aleshire
> Elizabeth Alexander
> Will Alexander
> Sherman Alexie
> Miguel Algarin
> Kazim Ali
> Funk Alison
> Dick  Allen
> Julie Alvarez
> mIEKAL aND
> Doug Anderson
> Jack Anderson
> Bruce Andrews
> Nin Andrews
> Tom Andrews
> Ralph Angel
> Maya Angelou
> Talvikki Ansel
> David Antin
>  Antler
> Philip Appleman
> Jack Argueros
> Rae Armantrout
> Bob Arnold
> Craig Arnold
> John Ash
> John Ashbery
> Renee Ashley
> Donald Everett Axinn
> Jimmy Santiago Baca
> David Baker
> John Balaban 
> Peter Balakian
> Anna Balint
> Mary Jo  Bang
> Amiri Baraka
> Walter Bargen
> Walter Bargen
> Coleman Barks
> Jim Barnes
> Aliki Barnstone
> Dennis Barone
> Gerald Barrax
> Dorothy Barresi
> Ellen Bass
> Wendy Battin
> Bruce Bauer
> Judith Baumel
> Bruce Bawer 
> J. P. Dancing Bear
> Bruce Beasley
> Paul  Beatty
> Robin Becker
> Joshua Beckman
> Robin Behn
> Erin Belieu 
> Marvin Bell
> Dodie Bellamy
> Aaron Belz
> John Bensko
> Steve Benson
> Stephen Berg * Carol Berge
> Bill Berkson
> Charles Bernstein
> Anselm Berrigan
> Wendell Berry
> Mei-Mei Berssenbrugge
> Jill Bialosky
> Frank Bidart
> Linda  Bierds
> George Bilgere
> Sophie Cabot Black
> Star Black
> Robin Blaser
> Randy Blasing
> Chana Bloch
> Michael  Blumenthal
> Robert Bly
> Michelle Boisseau
> Christian Bok
> Tom Bolt
> Bruce Bond
> Laure-Anne Booselar 
> Marianne Boruch
> Laura Boss
> David Bottoms
> Kevin Bowen
> Catherine Bowman
> George Bradley 
> John Bradley 
> Joe Brainard
> Kate Braverman
> Kim Bridgford
> Geoffrey Brock
> Lucie  Brock-Broido
> David Bromige 
> Catherine Savage Brosman
> Olga Broumas
> Joel Brouwer
> Fleda Brown
> Kurt Brown
> Lee Ann  Brown
> Stephanie Brown
> Michael  Brown 
> Joseph Bruchac
> Sharon Bryan
> Christopher Buckley
> Alexandra Hollander Budy
> Michael J. Bugeja
> Michael  Burkard
> Ralph Burns
> Stephen Burt
> Mairead Byrne
> Reggie Cabico
> Peter Campion
> Rafael  Campo
> Nick Carbo
> William Carpenter
> Jim  Carrol
> Michael  Casey
> Cyrus Cassells
> Turner Cassity
> Ana Castillo
> Grace Cavalieri
> Richard  Cecil
> James Cervantes
> Lorna Dee Cervantes
> Victoria Chang
> Fred Chappell
> Maxine Chernoff
> Kelly Cherry
> Richard  Chess
> Dan Chiasson
> Justin Chin
> Marilyn Chin
> Michael  Chitwood 
> Nicholas Christopher 
> Sandra Cisneros
> David Citino
> Tom Clark
> Killarny Clary
> David Clewell
> Lucille Clifton
> Joshua Clover
> Judith Ortiz Cofer
> Henri Cole
> Norma Cole 
> Wanda Coleman
> Michael  Collier
> Billy Collins
> Martha Collins
> Michael  Collins
> Gillian Connelly
> C.A. Conrad
> Carol Conroy
> Peter Cooley
> Clark Coolidge
> William Corbett
> Robert Cording
> Andre Cordrescu
> Alfred Corn
> Sam Cornish
> Jayne Cortez
> Mark Cox
> Steve Cramer
> Douglas Crase 
> Morri Creech
> Barbara Crooker
> Victor Hernandez Cruz 
> Philip Dacey 
> Beverly Dahlen 
> Steve Dalichinsky
> Catherine Daly
> Robert Dana
> Jim Daniels
> Kate Daniels
> Gayle Danley 
> Tina Darragh
> Michael Davidson
> Jordan Davis
> William Virgil Davis
> Peter Davison
> Cort Day
> Madeline Defrees
> Richard  Deming
> Chard DeNiord
> Carl Dennis
> Theodore Deppe
> Diana Der-Hovanesian
> Toi Derricotte
> Deborah Digges
> Linh Dihn
> Ray DiPalma
> W. S. DiPiero
> Diane DiPrima
> Stuart Dischell
> Gregory Djanikian
> Stephen Dobyns
> Wayne Dodd 
> Sharon Dolin
> Joe Donahue
> Matthew Donovan
> Stacy Doris
> Mark Doty
> Rita Dove
> Sharon Dubiago
> Norman Dubie
> Joseph Duemer
> Denise Duhamel
> Stephen Dunn
> Rachel Blau Duplessis
> Marcella Durand
> Cornelius Eady
> Gerald Earl y 
> George Economu
> Russell Edson
> W. D. Ehrhart
> Thomas Sayers Ellis
> Lynn Emanual
> Claudia Emerson
> Anita Endrezze
> Elaine Equi
> Louise Erdrich 
> Clayton Eshleman
> Martin Espada
> Peter Everwine
> Kathy Fagan
> B. H. Fairchild
> Patricia Fargnoli
> Andrew Feld
> Irving Feldman
> Beth Ann Fennelly
> Lawrence Ferlinghetti
> David Ferry
> Edward Field
> Annie Finch
> Gary  Fincke 
> Donald Finkel
> Susan Firer
> Charles Fishman
> Nick Flynn
> Richard  Foerester
> Jack Foley
> Carolyn Forche
> Ed Foster
> Sesshu Foster
> Graham Foust
> Hugh Fox
> Jan Freeman
> Stuart Freibert 
> Daisy Fried 
> Benjamin Friedlander
> Alice Friman
> Carol Frost
> Richard  Frost
> Alice Fulton
> Alison Funk 
> Erica Funkhouser
> Jonathan Galassi
> Tess Gallagher
> James Galvin
> Brendan Galvin 
> Forrest Gander
> Peter Ganick
> Max Garland
> Deborah Garrison
> Frank X. Gaspar
> Geoffrey Gatza
> Dan Gerber
> Amy Gerstler
> Reginald Gibbons 
> Robert Gibbs 
> Margaret Gibson
> Jack Gilbert
> Sandra M. Gilbert
> Gary  Gildner
> Maria Maziotti Gillan
> Dana Gioia
> Niki Giovanni
> C.S. Giscombe
> Michael  Gizzi 
> Peter Gizzi 
> Diane Glancy 
> Elton Glaser
> Greg Glazner 
> Chris Glomski
> Louise  Gl?ck
> John Godfrey
> Douglas Goetsche
> Albert Goldbarth
> Kenneth Goldsmith 
> Beckian Fritz Goldberg
> Lorrie Goldensohn
> Ray Gonzalez
> Rigoberto Gonz?lez
> Sarah Gorham
> Michael Gottlieb
> Henry Gould
> David Graham
> Jorie Graham
> Judy Grahn
> Jeffrey Greene
> Richard  Greenfield
> Ted Greenwald
> Deborah Greger
> Linda  Gregerson
> Linda  Gregg
> Robert Grenier
> Emily Grosholz
> Alan Grosman
> *Bob Grumman*
> Gabriel Gudding
> R.S. Gwynn
> Marilyn Hacker
> Rachel Hadas
> Jessica Hagedorn
> Kimiko Hahn
> Susan Hahn
> John Haines 
> Daniel Hall
> Donald Hall
> James Baker  Hall
> Mark Halliday
> Mark Halperin 
> Daniel Halpern 
> Barbara Hamby
> Forrest Hamer
> Sam Hamill
> C.G. Hanzlicek
> Joy Harjo
> William Harmon
> Michael S. Harper
> Jeffrey Harrison
> Jim Harrison 
> Carla Harryman
> Mathea Harvey
> Lola Haskins
> Robert Hass
> William Hathaway
> James Haug
> Brooks Haxton
> Terrance Hayes
> Samuel Hazo
> Michael Heffernan
> Lyn Hejinian
> Michael Heller
> Barbara Hemming
> Brian Henry
> Juan Felipe Herrera
> Robert Hershon
> William Heyen
> Bob Hicok
> Conrad Hilbery
> John Hildebidle
> Brenda Hillman
> Edward Hirsch
> Jack Hirschman
> Jane  Hirshfield
> H. L. Hix
> Tony Hoagland
> Jen Hofer
> Michael  Hoffman 
> Linda  Hogan
> Jonathan Holden
> John Hollander
> 0AAnselm Hollo
> Amy Holman
> Bob Holman
> Janet Holmes
> Garrett Hongo
> Paul  Hoover
> David Hopes
> John  Hoppenthaler
> Joan Houlihan
> Richard  Howard
> Fanny Howe
> Marie Howe
> Susan Howe
> Christopher Howells
> Andrew Hudgins
> T.R. Hummer
> Erica Hunt
> Collete Inez
> P. Inman
> Kenneth Irby
> Mark Irwin
> Major Jackson
> Richard  Jackson
> Gray Jacobik
> Phylis Janowitz 
> Mark  Jarman
> Lisa Jarnot
> Laura Jensen
> Kent Johnson
> Peter Johnson
> Brian Johnson 
> Denis Johnson 
> Halvard Johnson 
> Hettie Jones
> Richard  Jones
> Rodney Jones
> Erica Jong
> Pierre Joris 
> Alison Joseph
> Lawrence Joseph
> George Kalamaras
> Mary Karr
> Julia Kasdorf
> Laura Kasischke
> Joy Katz
> Claudia Keelan
> George Keithley
> David Keller
> Bridget Pegeen Kelly
> Robert Kelly
> X. J. Kennedy
> Richard  Kenney
> Maurice Kenny
> Kevin Killian
> Myung Mi Kim
> Burt Kimmelman
> Amy King
> Galway Kinnell
> Susan Kinsolving
> Mary Kinzie
> David Kirby
> Karl Kirchwey
> Adam Kirsch
> Judith Kitchen
> Carolyn Kizer
> August Kleinzahler
> William Kloefkorn
> John Knoepfle
> Bill Knott
> Jennifer L. Knox
> Ron Koertge
> Wayne Koestenbaum
> John Koethe
> Yusef Komunyakaa
> Ted Kooser
> Richard  Kostelanntz
> Steve Kowit
> Joanne Kryger
> Marilyn Krysl
> N ancy Kuhl
> Maxine Kumin
> Laurie Kutchins
> Gregg Kuzma
> Melissa Kwasny
> Joanne Kyger
> R.D. Laing
> Paul  Lake
> Michael Lally
> Philip Lamantia
> Joan Larkin
> John Latta
> Ann  Lauterbach
> Dorianne Laux
> Rachel Lavitsky
> Hank Lazer
> Sydney Lea
> Mary Leader
> Joseph Lease
> Katie Lederer
> David Lee
> Li-Young Lee
> Jim Lefwich
> Ursula LeGuinn
> David Lehman
> Brad Leithauser 
> Ben Lerner
> Dana Levin
> Phillis Levin
> Jeffrey Levine
> Mark Levine
> Philip  Levine
> Rachel Levitsky
> Lawrence Lieberman
> Lyn Lifshin
> Frank Lima
> Michael Lind
> Beth Lisick
> Timothy Liu
> Margaret Lloyd
> Gerald Locklin
> Rachel Loden
> William Logan
> Anthony Lombardo
> Gian Lombardo
> Robert Long
> Robert Hill Long
> James Longenbach
> Philip Lopate 
> A. Loudermilk
> Bill Louma
> Lisa Lubasch
> Susan Ludvigson
> Bill Luoma
> Thomas Lux
> Thomas Lynch
> Nathanial Mackey
> Haki Madhubuti
> Al Maginnes
> Clarence Major
> devorah major
> Peter Makuck
> Taylor Mali
> Tom Mandel
> Sarah Manguso
> Fred Marchant
> Paul  Mariani
> Reggie Marra
> Charles Martin
> Dionisio D. Martinez
> Valerie Martinez
> Cate Marvin
> Dave Mason
> Dan Masterson
> Harry Mathews
> Cleopatra Mathis
> John Matthias
> Bernadette Mayer
> Jonathan Mayhew
> Ben Mazer
> Gail Mazur
> Mekeel McBride.
> Shara McCallum
> Janet McCann
> Richard  McCann
> Linda  McCarriston
> J. D. McClatchy
> Davis McCombs
> Jeffrey McDaniel
> Walt McDonald
> Robert McDowell
> Michael  McFee
> Campbell McGrath
> Michael  McGrath 
> Heather McHugh
> Tom McKeon
> Rod McKuen
> Lynne McMahon
> James McManus
> James McMichael
> Mark McMorris
> Wesley McNair
> Sandra McPherson
> Molly McQuade
> Joyelle McSweeney
> Gwyn McVay
> Jane  Mead
> Pablo Medina
> Jay  Meek
> Peter Meinke
> David Meltzer
> Samuel Menashe
> Christopher Merrill
> W. S. Merwin
> Gary  Metras
> Philip Metres
> Simone Meunch
> Bernadette Meyer
> Robert Mezey
> E. Ethebert Miller
> Chelsey Minnis
> Roger Mitchell
> Susan Mitchell
> Ange Mlinko
> Wendy Mnookin
> Albert Mobilio
> Jeff Mock
> Kasey Silem Mohammad 
> Carol Moldaw
> N. Scott Momaday
> Honor Moore
> Todd Moore
> Pat Mora
> Frederick Morgan
> Robert Morgan
> Laura Moriarty
> Malena M?rling 
> Tracie Morris
> Herbert Morris 
> Rusty Morrison
> Michael Morse
> Thylias Moss
> Jennifer Moxley
> Lisel Mueller
> Paul  Muldoon
> Harryette Mullen
> Laura Mullen
> David Mura
> Sheila E. Murphy
> Carol Muske (Dukes)
> Jack Myers
> Eileen Myles
> Joe Napora
> Leonard Nathan
> Aldon Neilson
> Marilyn Nelson
> Mark Nepo
> Leslea Newman
> Aimee  Nezhukumatathi l 
> B.Z. Niditch
> Kathleen Norris
> Charles North
> Alice Notley
> D. Nurkse
> Naomi Shihab Nye
> Michael O'Brien
> Ed Ochester
> Sharon Olds
> Carole Oles
> Mary Oliver
> William Olsen
> Toby Olson
> Tom Orange
> Steve Orlen
> Gregory Orr
> Christian Ortega
> Simon Ortiz 
> Jacqueline Osherow
> Jena Osman
> Alicia Ostriker
> Maureen Owen
> Rochelle Owens
> Robert Pack
> Ron Padgett
> Frankie Paino
> Michael  Palmer
> Eric Pankey 
> Greg Pape
> Jay Parini
> Cathy Hong Park
> Alan Michael Parker
> Linda  Pastan
> William B. Patrick
> G.E. Patterson
> Ed Pavlic 
> Molly Peacock
> Willie Perdomo
> Lucia Perillo
> Bob Perlman
> Simon Pershik
> Robert Peters
> Carl Phillips
> Dennis Phillips
> Robert Phillips
> Wanda Phipps
> Marge Piercy
> Robert Pinsky
> Nick Piombino
> Stanley Plumly
> Robert Polito
> Marie Ponsot
> Carol Potter
> D. A. Powell
> Jim Powell
> Minnie Bruce Pratt
> Reynolds Price 
> Kevin Prufer
> Wyatt Prunty
> Jason Quakenbush
> Lawrence Raab
> Charles Rafferty 
> James Ragan
> Bin Ramke
> Claudia Rankine
> Barbara Ras
> Tom Raworth
> David Ray
> Judy Ray
> Eugene Redmond
> Spencer Reece
> Ishmael Reed
> D.J. Renegade
> Joan Rettalack
> Donald Revell
> Barbara Jane Reyes
> Adrienne Rich
> Susan Rich
> Tad Richards
> James Richardson * Alberto Rios
> Carter Rivard
> David Rivard
> Ed Roberson
> Kit Robinson
> Stephen Rodefer
> Luis J. Rodriguez
> Adelia Rodriguez 
> Pattiann Rogers
> Matthew Rohrer
> David Romveldt 
> Martha Ronk
> Wendy Rose
> Liz Rosenberg
> Clare Rossini
> Jerome Rothenberg
> Gibbons Ruark
> Mark Rudman
> Mary Ruefle
> Vern Rutsala
> Kay Ryan
> Michael  Ryan
> William Ryan
> Ira Sadoff
> Miriam Sagan
> Natasha Saje
> Jerome Sala
> Mary Jo  Salter
> Fiona Sampson
> Sonia Sanchez
> Stephen Sandy
> Reg Saner
> Sherod Santos
>  Sapphire
> Cheryl Savageau
> Aram Sayoran
> Leslie Scalapino
> Maxine Scates
> Michael Scharf
> Margot Schlipp
> Dennis Schmitz
> Gjertud Schnackenberg
> Grace Schulman
> Philip Schultz
> Susan Schultz
> Gerald Schwartz
> Howard Schwartz
> Leonard Schwartz
> Lloyd Schwartz
> Lynn Sharon Schwartz  
> Frederick Seidel
> Hugh Seidman
> Rebecca Seiferle
> Eric Murphy Selinger
> Peter Serchuk
> Vikram Seth
> Patty Seyburn
> Ntozake Shange
> Ravi Shankar
> Alan Shapiro
> David Shapiro
> Harvey Shapiro
> Don Share
> Brenda Shaughnessy
> Laurie Sheck
> Eve Shellnut
> Richard  Shelton
> Evie Shockley
> Enid Shomer 
> Jane  Shore
> Gary  Short
> Beau Sia
> Tim Siebles 
> Eleni Sikelianos
> Richard  Siken
> Edgar Gabriel Silex
> Leslie Marmon Silko 
> Ron Silliman
> Charles  Simic
> Maurya Simon
> Louis  Simpson
> Hal Sirowitz
> Jeffrey Skinner
> Knute Skinner
> Floyd Skloot
> David Slavitt
> Tom Sleigh
> Charlie Smith
> Dale Smith
> Dave  Smith
> Patricia  Smith
> R.T. Smith
> Rod Smith
> Tracy K. Smith
> W. Loran Smith
> William Jay Smith
> Marc Smith 
> Rod Smith 
> Frederick Smock
> Susan Snively
> W.D. Snodgrass
> Carol Snow
> Gary  Snyder
> Jason Somer 
> Cathy Song
> Gary  Soto
> Marcia Southwick
> Barry Spacks
> Juliana Spahr
>  Sparrow
> Laurel Speer
> Elizabeth Spires
> Kathleen Spivack
> David St. John
> Primus St. John
> Kim Stafford
> A. E. Stallings
> Maura Stanton
> Timothy  Steele
> Kevin Stein
> Gerald Stern
> Pamela Stewart
> Susan Stewart
> Peter Stitt 
> Ruth Stone
> Mark Strand
> Stephanie Strickland
> Chris Stroffolino
> Joseph Stroud
> Lucian Stryk
> Dabney Stuart
> Virgil Suarez
> Julie Suk
> John Suorecki
> Teresa Svoboda
> Robert Sward
> Cole Swenson
> Karen Swenson
> Wally Swist
> William Sylvester
> Arthur Sze
> John Taggart 
> John Tagliabue 
> Dorothea Tanning
> Stephen Tapscott
> Nathaniel Tarn
> James Tate
> Eleanor Ross Taylor
> Henry  Taylor
> Roberto Tejada
> Diane Thiel
> Lorenzo Thomas 
> Robert Thomas 
> Sue Ellen Thompson
> Richard  Till inghast
> Daniel Tobin
> Joseph Torra
> Rodrigo Toscano
> Tony Tost
> Tony Towle
> Ann Townsend
> Natasha Tretheway
> David Trinidad
> Quincy  Troupe
> Lewis Turco
> Brian Turner
> Frederick Turner
> Chase Twitchell
> Leslie Ullman
> John Updike
> Lee Upton
> Jean Valentine
> Sally Van Doren
> Michael  Van Wallagen 
> Nance Van Winckel
> Paul  Vangelisti
> Reetika Vazirani
> Tino Villanueva
> Paul  Violi
> Arthur Vogelsang
> Ellen Bryant Voigt
> Connie Voisine
> Karen Volkmann
> Judith Vollmer
> David Wagoner
> Diane Wakowski
> Derek Walcott
> Anne Waldman
> Liz Waldner
> Keith Waldrop
> Rosemaire Waldrop 
> Frank X Walker
> Laura Walker
> Mark Wallace
> Ronald Wallace
>  Wammo
> Connie Wanek
> Diane Ward 
> Thom Ward 
> Belle Waring
> Roseanna Warren
> Lewis Warsh
> Michael  Waters
> Ellen Dore Watson
> Barrett Watten
> Michael Afaa  Weaver
> Charles Harper Webb
> Joe Wederoth
> Rebecca Wee
> Bruce Weigl
> Roger Weingarten
> Susan Wheeler
> J.P. White
> Ron Whitehead
> Eliot Wienberger
> Dara Wier
> Richard  Wilbur
> Nancy Willard
> Steve Willard
> C. K.  Williams
> Miller Williams
> Saul Williams
> Tyrone Williams
> Alan Williamson
> Greg Williamson
> Elizabeth Willis
> Eleanor Wilner
> Christian Wiman
> Terrance Winch
> Anne Winters
> David Wojahn
> Re becca Wolff
> Susan Wood
> Jeff Worley
> Baron Wormser
> C. D. Wright
> Carolyne L. Wright
> Charles Wright
> Franz Wright
> Jay  Wright
> Robert Wrigley
> John Yau
> Stephen Yenser 
> David Yezzi
> Jake Adam York
> Al Young
> David  Young
> Dean Young
> Kevin Young
> Gary  Young 
> Ray A. Young Bear
> Matthew Zapruder
> Cynthia Zarin 
> Paul  Zimmer
> Harriet Zinnes
> Martha Zwieg
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From anny.ballardini at gmail.com  Mon Oct  6 02:09:43 2008
From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2008 08:09:43 +0200
Subject: [New-Poetry] The List
In-Reply-To: <48E96D3E.1060907@opus40.org>
References: <8CAF564D4215113-B2C-310E@FWM-M04.sysops.aol.com>
	<48E96D3E.1060907@opus40.org>
Message-ID: <4b65c2d70810052309v71f2a365n2f06193fa27f545e@mail.gmail.com>

I am definitely not there. A pity.

On Mon, Oct 6, 2008 at 3:43 AM, TheOldMole <Opus40-01 at opus40.org> wrote:

> What have I missed? What's this a list of?
>
>
> jforjames at aol.com wrote:
>
>> I thought my list was bit bigger (approx. 950 names)
>> American (I think) and living (I hope)...especially sorry
>> if I missed some NewPoetry folks...
>>
>> Millicent Borges Accardi
>> Diane Ackerman
>> Kim Addonizio
>> Julia Agoos
>> Jack Ag?eros  Ai
>> Susan Aizenberg
>> Sandra Alcosser
>> Jane  Aleshire
>> Elizabeth Alexander
>> Will Alexander
>> Sherman Alexie
>> Miguel Algarin
>> Kazim Ali
>> Funk Alison
>> Dick  Allen
>> Julie Alvarez
>> mIEKAL aND
>> Doug Anderson
>> Jack Anderson
>> Bruce Andrews
>> Nin Andrews
>> Tom Andrews
>> Ralph Angel
>> Maya Angelou
>> Talvikki Ansel
>> David Antin
>>  Antler
>> Philip Appleman
>> Jack Argueros
>> Rae Armantrout
>> Bob Arnold
>> Craig Arnold
>> John Ash
>> John Ashbery
>> Renee Ashley
>> Donald Everett Axinn
>> Jimmy Santiago Baca
>> David Baker
>> John Balaban Peter Balakian
>> Anna Balint
>> Mary Jo  Bang
>> Amiri Baraka
>> Walter Bargen
>> Walter Bargen
>> Coleman Barks
>> Jim Barnes
>> Aliki Barnstone
>> Dennis Barone
>> Gerald Barrax
>> Dorothy Barresi
>> Ellen Bass
>> Wendy Battin
>> Bruce Bauer
>> Judith Baumel
>> Bruce Bawer J. P. Dancing Bear
>> Bruce Beasley
>> Paul  Beatty
>> Robin Becker
>> Joshua Beckman
>> Robin Behn
>> Erin Belieu Marvin Bell
>> Dodie Bellamy
>> Aaron Belz
>> John Bensko
>> Steve Benson
>> Stephen Berg * Carol Berge
>> Bill Berkson
>> Charles Bernstein
>> Anselm Berrigan
>> Wendell Berry
>> Mei-Mei Berssenbrugge
>> Jill Bialosky
>> Frank Bidart
>> Linda  Bierds
>> George Bilgere
>> Sophie Cabot Black
>> Star Black
>> Robin Blaser
>> Randy Blasing
>> Chana Bloch
>> Michael  Blumenthal
>> Robert Bly
>> Michelle Boisseau
>> Christian Bok
>> Tom Bolt
>> Bruce Bond
>> Laure-Anne Booselar Marianne Boruch
>> Laura Boss
>> David Bottoms
>> Kevin Bowen
>> Catherine Bowman
>> George Bradley John Bradley Joe Brainard
>> Kate Braverman
>> Kim Bridgford
>> Geoffrey Brock
>> Lucie  Brock-Broido
>> David Bromige Catherine Savage Brosman
>> Olga Broumas
>> Joel Brouwer
>> Fleda Brown
>> Kurt Brown
>> Lee Ann  Brown
>> Stephanie Brown
>> Michael  Brown Joseph Bruchac
>> Sharon Bryan
>> Christopher Buckley
>> Alexandra Hollander Budy
>> Michael J. Bugeja
>> Michael  Burkard
>> Ralph Burns
>> Stephen Burt
>> Mairead Byrne
>> Reggie Cabico
>> Peter Campion
>> Rafael  Campo
>> Nick Carbo
>> William Carpenter
>> Jim  Carrol
>> Michael  Casey
>> Cyrus Cassells
>> Turner Cassity
>> Ana Castillo
>> Grace Cavalieri
>> Richard  Cecil
>> James Cervantes
>> Lorna Dee Cervantes
>> Victoria Chang
>> Fred Chappell
>> Maxine Chernoff
>> Kelly Cherry
>> Richard  Chess
>> Dan Chiasson
>> Justin Chin
>> Marilyn Chin
>> Michael  Chitwood Nicholas Christopher Sandra Cisneros
>> David Citino
>> Tom Clark
>> Killarny Clary
>> David Clewell
>> Lucille Clifton
>> Joshua Clover
>> Judith Ortiz Cofer
>> Henri Cole
>> Norma Cole Wanda Coleman
>> Michael  Collier
>> Billy Collins
>> Martha Collins
>> Michael  Collins
>> Gillian Connelly
>> C.A. Conrad
>> Carol Conroy
>> Peter Cooley
>> Clark Coolidge
>> William Corbett
>> Robert Cording
>> Andre Cordrescu
>> Alfred Corn
>> Sam Cornish
>> Jayne Cortez
>> Mark Cox
>> Steve Cramer
>> Douglas Crase Morri Creech
>> Barbara Crooker
>> Victor Hernandez Cruz Philip Dacey Beverly Dahlen Steve Dalichinsky
>> Catherine Daly
>> Robert Dana
>> Jim Daniels
>> Kate Daniels
>> Gayle Danley Tina Darragh
>> Michael Davidson
>> Jordan Davis
>> William Virgil Davis
>> Peter Davison
>> Cort Day
>> Madeline Defrees
>> Richard  Deming
>> Chard DeNiord
>> Carl Dennis
>> Theodore Deppe
>> Diana Der-Hovanesian
>> Toi Derricotte
>> Deborah Digges
>> Linh Dihn
>> Ray DiPalma
>> W. S. DiPiero
>> Diane DiPrima
>> Stuart Dischell
>> Gregory Djanikian
>> Stephen Dobyns
>> Wayne Dodd Sharon Dolin
>> Joe Donahue
>> Matthew Donovan
>> Stacy Doris
>> Mark Doty
>> Rita Dove
>> Sharon Dubiago
>> Norman Dubie
>> Joseph Duemer
>> Denise Duhamel
>> Stephen Dunn
>> Rachel Blau Duplessis
>> Marcella Durand
>> Cornelius Eady
>> Gerald Earl y George Economu
>> Russell Edson
>> W. D. Ehrhart
>> Thomas Sayers Ellis
>> Lynn Emanual
>> Claudia Emerson
>> Anita Endrezze
>> Elaine Equi
>> Louise Erdrich Clayton Eshleman
>> Martin Espada
>> Peter Everwine
>> Kathy Fagan
>> B. H. Fairchild
>> Patricia Fargnoli
>> Andrew Feld
>> Irving Feldman
>> Beth Ann Fennelly
>> Lawrence Ferlinghetti
>> David Ferry
>> Edward Field
>> Annie Finch
>> Gary  Fincke Donald Finkel
>> Susan Firer
>> Charles Fishman
>> Nick Flynn
>> Richard  Foerester
>> Jack Foley
>> Carolyn Forche
>> Ed Foster
>> Sesshu Foster
>> Graham Foust
>> Hugh Fox
>> Jan Freeman
>> Stuart Freibert Daisy Fried Benjamin Friedlander
>> Alice Friman
>> Carol Frost
>> Richard  Frost
>> Alice Fulton
>> Alison Funk Erica Funkhouser
>> Jonathan Galassi
>> Tess Gallagher
>> James Galvin
>> Brendan Galvin Forrest Gander
>> Peter Ganick
>> Max Garland
>> Deborah Garrison
>> Frank X. Gaspar
>> Geoffrey Gatza
>> Dan Gerber
>> Amy Gerstler
>> Reginald Gibbons Robert Gibbs Margaret Gibson
>> Jack Gilbert
>> Sandra M. Gilbert
>> Gary  Gildner
>> Maria Maziotti Gillan
>> Dana Gioia
>> Niki Giovanni
>> C.S. Giscombe
>> Michael  Gizzi Peter Gizzi Diane Glancy Elton Glaser
>> Greg Glazner Chris Glomski
>> Louise  Gl?ck
>> John Godfrey
>> Douglas Goetsche
>> Albert Goldbarth
>> Kenneth Goldsmith Beckian Fritz Goldberg
>> Lorrie Goldensohn
>> Ray Gonzalez
>> Rigoberto Gonz?lez
>> Sarah Gorham
>> Michael Gottlieb
>> Henry Gould
>> David Graham
>> Jorie Graham
>> Judy Grahn
>> Jeffrey Greene
>> Richard  Greenfield
>> Ted Greenwald
>> Deborah Greger
>> Linda  Gregerson
>> Linda  Gregg
>> Robert Grenier
>> Emily Grosholz
>> Alan Grosman
>> *Bob Grumman*
>> Gabriel Gudding
>> R.S. Gwynn
>> Marilyn Hacker
>> Rachel Hadas
>> Jessica Hagedorn
>> Kimiko Hahn
>> Susan Hahn
>> John Haines Daniel Hall
>> Donald Hall
>> James Baker  Hall
>> Mark Halliday
>> Mark Halperin Daniel Halpern Barbara Hamby
>> Forrest Hamer
>> Sam Hamill
>> C.G. Hanzlicek
>> Joy Harjo
>> William Harmon
>> Michael S. Harper
>> Jeffrey Harrison
>> Jim Harrison Carla Harryman
>> Mathea Harvey
>> Lola Haskins
>> Robert Hass
>> William Hathaway
>> James Haug
>> Brooks Haxton
>> Terrance Hayes
>> Samuel Hazo
>> Michael Heffernan
>> Lyn Hejinian
>> Michael Heller
>> Barbara Hemming
>> Brian Henry
>> Juan Felipe Herrera
>> Robert Hershon
>> William Heyen
>> Bob Hicok
>> Conrad Hilbery
>> John Hildebidle
>> Brenda Hillman
>> Edward Hirsch
>> Jack Hirschman
>> Jane  Hirshfield
>> H. L. Hix
>> Tony Hoagland
>> Jen Hofer
>> Michael  Hoffman Linda  Hogan
>> Jonathan Holden
>> John Hollander
>> 0AAnselm Hollo
>> Amy Holman
>> Bob Holman
>> Janet Holmes
>> Garrett Hongo
>> Paul  Hoover
>> David Hopes
>> John  Hoppenthaler
>> Joan Houlihan
>> Richard  Howard
>> Fanny Howe
>> Marie Howe
>> Susan Howe
>> Christopher Howells
>> Andrew Hudgins
>> T.R. Hummer
>> Erica Hunt
>> Collete Inez
>> P. Inman
>> Kenneth Irby
>> Mark Irwin
>> Major Jackson
>> Richard  Jackson
>> Gray Jacobik
>> Phylis Janowitz Mark  Jarman
>> Lisa Jarnot
>> Laura Jensen
>> Kent Johnson
>> Peter Johnson
>> Brian Johnson Denis Johnson Halvard Johnson Hettie Jones
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>
> --
> Tad Richards
> http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/
> http://opusforty.blogspot.com/
>
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>
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-- 
Anny Ballardini
http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html
I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing
star!
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From ATambellini01 at aol.com  Mon Oct  6 02:28:20 2008
From: ATambellini01 at aol.com (ATambellini01 at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2008 02:28:20 EDT
Subject: [New-Poetry] The List
Message-ID: <d46.3011dbbd.361b0a04@aol.com>

maybe we should make a list of those who did not make "THE  LIST"



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From anny.ballardini at gmail.com  Mon Oct  6 02:53:05 2008
From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2008 08:53:05 +0200
Subject: [New-Poetry] Autumn
Message-ID: <4b65c2d70810052353rad91da3r7ef24a9565aa194@mail.gmail.com>

I am sure many of you have some Autumnal poems in your drawers and
notebooks. I am thinking of opening a page on the Poets' Corner titled
Autumn, mainly because on another list a series of beautiful poems were
magically created following the writing an Author sent to the list. Or you
could write a new one. If you are interested, I would be happy to consider
them, you could send your work to the list, or directly to me at:

anny.ballardini at gmail.com

Here is the main index of the Poets' Corner:
http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome


Thank you, Autumnly yours,
Anny


-- 
Anny Ballardini
http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html
I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing
star!
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From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net  Mon Oct  6 06:50:01 2008
From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman)
Date: Mon, 06 Oct 2008 05:50:01 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] The List
In-Reply-To: <8CAF564D4215113-B2C-310E@FWM-M04.sysops.aol.com>
References: <8CAF564D4215113-B2C-310E@FWM-M04.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <48E9ED59.4010305@nut-n-but.net>

jforjames at aol.com wrote:
> I thought my list was bit bigger (approx. 950 names)
> American (I think) and living (I hope)...especially sorry
> if I missed some NewPoetry folks...
Thanks, James.  Maybe we should have a contest to see who can add the 
most names to your list.  I'll look it over when I have time, and add to it.

--Bob

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From jforjames at aol.com  Mon Oct  6 07:22:33 2008
From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 06 Oct 2008 07:22:33 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] The List
In-Reply-To: <d46.3011dbbd.361b0a04@aol.com>
References: <d46.3011dbbd.361b0a04@aol.com>
Message-ID: <8CAF5BCF60EC869-11C8-1D2E@FWM-D28.sysops.aol.com>

That would be great, name names...it should be a list that lives. 
Finnegan


-----Original Message-----
From: ATambellini01 at aol.com
To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
Sent: Mon, 6 Oct 2008 2:28 am
Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] The List



maybe we should make a list of those who did not make "THE LIST"




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http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry

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From AlMaginnes at aol.com  Mon Oct  6 07:50:43 2008
From: AlMaginnes at aol.com (AlMaginnes at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2008 07:50:43 EDT
Subject: [New-Poetry] The List
Message-ID: <d3d.2b88b610.361b5593@aol.com>

Happy to see my name there but I could add a lot of  names.



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From amyhappens at yahoo.com  Mon Oct  6 08:18:26 2008
From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king)
Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2008 05:18:26 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [New-Poetry] Anthology Spoiler
Message-ID: <461298.90753.qm@web83305.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>

>From the Harriet Blog this a.m. -- 





I received the following email from Stephen McLaughlin this afternoon, who asked me to post this here:


 


"One morning about a month ago, I received a message from the
Poetics List that began something like 'Announcing Issue 1 of Broken
Caterpillar. Featuring new poems by . . . followed by a list of 45
poet's names. I'd seen one of them on Silliman's blogroll, but the rest
were just flat names. Barely names -- ethereal text strings. Keep in
mind that I receive hundreds of these announcements per year.





Continued at Harriet -- http://poetryfoundation.org/harriet/2008/10/anthology_spoiler.html#comments? 







Amy

_______





Recent work

http://www.writing.upenn.edu/pennsound/x/King.html



Amy's Alias

http://amyking.org/


      
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From AlMaginnes at aol.com  Mon Oct  6 08:19:17 2008
From: AlMaginnes at aol.com (AlMaginnes at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2008 08:19:17 EDT
Subject: [New-Poetry] The List
Message-ID: <bfc.46ad9d87.361b5c45@aol.com>

A few names just off the top of my head (I apologize if some of these are  actually on the list):
 
Betty Adcock
Suzanne Cleary
Philip Terman
George Looney
Grey Brown
Holly Iglesias
James Seay
Luann Keener
 
All of these people have at least one book and in the case of James Seay  and Betty Adcock a lot of books and careers that span decades.
 
Al



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From millb at aol.com  Mon Oct  6 08:29:21 2008
From: millb at aol.com (millb at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 06 Oct 2008 08:29:21 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] The List
In-Reply-To: <4b65c2d70810052309v71f2a365n2f06193fa27f545e@mail.gmail.com>
References: <8CAF564D4215113-B2C-310E@FWM-M04.sysops.aol.com><48E96D3E.1060907@opus40.org>
	<4b65c2d70810052309v71f2a365n2f06193fa27f545e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8CAF5C64B5D4602-B48-1C93@webmail-dd06.sysops.aol.com>

What is this list and who compiled it?


Cheers,

Millicent
Http://www.MillicentBorgesAccardi.com


-----Original Message-----
From: Anny Ballardini <anny.ballardini at gmail.com>
Sent: Sun, 5 Oct 2008 11:09 pm
Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] The List



I am definitely not there. A pity.


On Mon, Oct 6, 2008 at 3:43 AM, TheOldMole <Opus40-01 at opus40.org> wrote:

What have I missed? What's this a list of?


jforjames at aol.com wrote:





I thought my list was bit bigger (approx. 950 names)
American (I think) and living (I hope)...especially sorry
if I missed some NewPoetry folks...

Millicent Borges Accardi
Diane Ackerman
Kim Addonizio
Julia Agoos
Jack Ag?eros ?Ai
Susan Aizenberg
Sandra Alcosser
Jane ?Aleshire
Elizabeth Alexander
Will Alexander
Sherman Alexie
Miguel Algarin
Kazim Ali
Funk Alison
Dick ?Allen
Julie Alvarez
mIEKAL aND
Doug Anderson
Jack Anderson
Bruce Andrews
Nin Andrews
Tom Andrews
Ralph Angel
Maya Angelou
Talvikki Ansel
David Antin
?Antler
Philip Appleman
Jack Argueros
Rae Armantrout
Bob Arnold
Craig Arnold
John Ash
John Ashbery
Renee Ashley
Donald Everett Axinn
Jimmy Santiago Baca
David Baker
John Balaban Peter Balakian
Anna Balint
Mary Jo ?Bang
Amiri Baraka
Walter Bargen
Walter Bargen
Coleman Barks
Jim Barnes
Aliki Barnstone
Dennis Barone
Gerald Barrax
Dorothy Barresi
Ellen Bass
Wendy Battin
Bruce Bauer
Judith Baumel
Bruce Bawer J. P. Dancing Bear
Bruce Beasley
Paul ?Beatty
Robin Becker
Joshua Beckman
Robin Behn
Erin Belieu Marvin Bell
Dodie Bellamy
Aaron Belz
John Bensko
Steve Benson
Stephen20Berg * Carol Berge
Bill Berkson
Charles Bernstein
Anselm Berrigan
Wendell Berry
Mei-Mei Berssenbrugge
Jill Bialosky
Frank Bidart
Linda ?Bierds
George Bilgere
Sophie Cabot Black
Star Black
Robin Blaser
Randy Blasing
Chana Bloch
Michael ?Blumenthal
Robert Bly
Michelle Boisseau
Christian Bok
Tom Bolt
Bruce Bond
Laure-Anne Booselar Marianne Boruch
Laura Boss
David Bottoms
Kevin Bowen
Catherine Bowman
George Bradley John Bradley Joe Brainard
Kate Braverman
Kim Bridgford
Geoffrey Brock
Lucie ?Brock-Broido
David Bromige Catherine Savage Brosman
Olga Broumas
Joel Brouwer
Fleda Brown
Kurt Brown
Lee Ann ?Brown
Stephanie Brown
Michael ?Brown Joseph Bruchac
Sharon Bryan
Christopher Buckley
Alexandra Hollander Budy
Michael J. Bugeja
Michael ?Burkard
Ralph Burns
Stephen Burt
Mairead Byrne
Reggie Cabico
Peter Campion
Rafael ?Campo
Nick Carbo
William Carpenter
Jim ?Carrol
Michael ?Casey
Cyrus Cassells
Turner Cassity
Ana Castillo
Grace Cavalieri
Richard ?Cecil
James Cervantes
Lorna Dee Cervantes
Victoria Chang
Fred Chappell
Maxine Chernoff
Kelly Cherry
Richard ?Chess
Dan Chiasson
Justin Chin
Marilyn Chin
Michael ?Chitwood Nicholas Christopher Sandra Cisneros
David Citino
Tom Clark
Killarny Clary
David Clewell
Lucille Clifton
Joshua Clover
Judith Ortiz Cofer
Henri Cole
Norma Cole Wanda Coleman
Michael ?Collier
Billy Collins
Martha Collins
Michael ?Collins
Gillian Connelly
C.A. Conrad
Carol Conroy
Peter Cooley
Clark Coolidge
William Corbett
Robert Cording
Andre Cordrescu
Alfred Corn
Sam Cornish
Jayne Cortez
Mark Cox
Steve Cramer
Dougl
as Crase Morri Creech
Barbara Crooker
Victor Hernandez Cruz Philip Dacey Beverly Dahlen Steve Dalichinsky
Catherine Daly
Robert Dana
Jim Daniels
Kate Daniels
Gayle Danley Tina Darragh
Michael Davidson
Jordan Davis
William Virgil Davis
Peter Davison
Cort Day
Madeline Defrees
Richard ?Deming
Chard DeNiord
Carl Dennis
Theodore Deppe
Diana Der-Hovanesian
Toi Derricotte
Deborah Digges
Linh Dihn
Ray DiPalma
W. S. DiPiero
Diane DiPrima
Stuart Dischell
Gregory Djanikian
Stephen Dobyns
Wayne Dodd Sharon Dolin
Joe Donahue
Matthew Donovan
Stacy Doris
Mark Doty
Rita Dove
Sharon Dubiago
Norman Dubie
Joseph Duemer
Denise Duhamel
Stephen Dunn
Rachel Blau Duplessis
Marcella Durand
Cornelius Eady
Gerald Earl y George Economu
Russell Edson
W. D. Ehrhart
Thomas Sayers Ellis
Lynn Emanual
Claudia Emerson
Anita Endrezze
Elaine Equi
Louise Erdrich Clayton Eshleman
Martin Espada
Peter Everwine
Kathy Fagan
B. H. Fairchild
Patricia Fargnoli
Andrew Feld
Irving Feldman
Beth Ann Fennelly
Lawrence Ferlinghetti
David Ferry
Edward Field
Annie Finch
Gary ?Fincke Donald Finkel
Susan Firer
Charles Fishman
Nick Flynn
Richard ?Foerester
Jack Foley
Carolyn Forche
Ed Foster
Sesshu Foster
Graham Foust
Hugh Fox
Jan Freeman
Stuart Freibert Daisy Fried Benjamin Friedlander
Alice Friman
Carol Frost
Richard ?Frost
Alice Fulton
Alison Funk Erica Funkhouser
Jonathan Galassi
Tess Gallagher
James Galvin
Brendan Galvin Forrest Gander
Peter Ganick
Max Garland
Deborah Garrison
Frank X. Gaspar
Geoffrey Gatza
Dan Gerber
Amy Gerstler
Reginald Gibbons Robert Gibbs Margaret Gibson
Jack Gilbert
Sandra20M. Gilbert
Gary ?Gildner
Maria Maziotti Gillan
Dana Gioia
Niki Giovanni
C.S. Giscombe
Michael ?Gizzi Peter Gizzi Diane Glancy Elton Glaser
Greg Glazner Chris Glomski
Louise ?Gl?ck
John Godfrey
Douglas Goetsche
Albert Goldbarth
Kenneth Goldsmith Beckian Fritz Goldberg
Lorrie Goldensohn
Ray Gonzalez
Rigoberto Gonz?lez
Sarah Gorham
Michael Gottlieb
Henry Gould
David Graham
Jorie Graham
Judy Grahn
Jeffrey Greene
Richard ?Greenfield
Ted Greenwald
Deborah Greger
Linda ?Gregerson
Linda ?Gregg
Robert Grenier
Emily Grosholz
Alan Grosman
*Bob Grumman*
Gabriel Gudding
R.S. Gwynn
Marilyn Hacker
Rachel Hadas
Jessica Hagedorn
Kimiko Hahn
Susan Hahn
John Haines Daniel Hall
Donald Hall
James Baker ?Hall
Mark Halliday
Mark Halperin Daniel Halpern Barbara Hamby
Forrest Hamer
Sam Hamill
C.G. Hanzlicek
Joy Harjo
William Harmon
Michael S. Harper
Jeffrey Harrison
Jim Harrison Carla Harryman
Mathea Harvey
Lola Haskins
Robert Hass
William Hathaway
James Haug
Brooks Haxton
Terrance Hayes
Samuel Hazo
Michael Heffernan
Lyn Hejinian
Michael Heller
Barbara Hemming
Brian Henry
Juan Felipe Herrera
Robert Hershon
William Heyen
Bob Hicok
Conrad Hilbery
John Hildebidle
Brenda Hillman
Edward Hirsch
Jack Hirschman
Jane ?Hirshfield
H. L. Hix
Tony Hoagland
Jen Hofer
Michael ?Hoffman Linda ?Hogan
Jonathan Holden
John Hollander
0AAnselm Hollo
Amy Holman
Bob Holman
Janet Holmes
Garrett Hongo
Paul ?Hoover
David Hopes
John ?Hoppenthaler
Joan Houlihan
Richard ?Howard
Fanny Howe
Marie Howe
Susan Howe
Christopher Howells
Andrew Hudgins
T.R. Hummer
Er
ica Hunt
Collete Inez
P. Inman
Kenneth Irby
Mark Irwin
Major Jackson
Richard ?Jackson
Gray Jacobik
Phylis Janowitz Mark ?Jarman
Lisa Jarnot
Laura Jensen
Kent Johnson
Peter Johnson
Brian Johnson Denis Johnson Halvard Johnson Hettie Jones
Richard ?Jones
Rodney Jones
Erica Jong
Pierre Joris Alison Joseph
Lawrence Joseph
George Kalamaras
Mary Karr
Julia Kasdorf
Laura Kasischke
Joy Katz
Claudia Keelan
George Keithley
David Keller
Bridget Pegeen Kelly
Robert Kelly
X. J. Kennedy
Richard ?Kenney
Maurice Kenny
Kevin Killian
Myung Mi Kim
Burt Kimmelman
Amy King
Galway Kinnell
Susan Kinsolving
Mary Kinzie
David Kirby
Karl Kirchwey
Adam Kirsch
Judith Kitchen
Carolyn Kizer
August Kleinzahler
William Kloefkorn
John Knoepfle
Bill Knott
Jennifer L. Knox
Ron Koertge
Wayne Koestenbaum
John Koethe
Yusef Komunyakaa
Ted Kooser
Richard ?Kostelanntz
Steve Kowit
Joanne Kryger
Marilyn Krysl
N ancy Kuhl
Maxine Kumin
Laurie Kutchins
Gregg Kuzma
Melissa Kwasny
Joanne Kyger
R.D. Laing
Paul ?Lake
Michael Lally
Philip Lamantia
Joan Larkin
John Latta
Ann ?Lauterbach
Dorianne Laux
Rachel Lavitsky
Hank Lazer
Sydney Lea
Mary Leader
Joseph Lease
Katie Lederer
David Lee
Li-Young Lee
Jim Lefwich
Ursula LeGuinn
David Lehman
Brad Leithauser Ben Lerner
Dana Levin
Phillis Levin
Jeffrey Levine
Mark Levine
Philip ?Levine
Rachel Levitsky
Lawrence Lieberman
Lyn Lifshin
Frank Lima
Michael Lind
Beth Lisick
Timothy Liu
Margaret Lloyd
Gerald Locklin
Rachel Loden
William Logan
Anthony Lombardo
Gian Lombardo
Robert Long
Robert Hill Long
James Longenbach
Philip Lopate A. 
Loudermilk
Bill Louma
Lisa Lubasch
Susan Ludvigson
Bill Luoma
Thomas Lux
Thomas Lynch
Nathanial Mackey
Haki Madhubuti
Al Maginnes
Clarence Major
devorah major
Peter Makuck
Taylor Mali
Tom Mandel
Sarah Manguso
Fred Marchant
Paul ?Mariani
Reggie Marra
Charles Martin
Dionisio D. Martinez
Valerie Martinez
Cate Marvin
Dave Mason
Dan Masterson
Harry Mathews
Cleopatra Mathis
John Matthias
Bernadette Mayer
Jonathan Mayhew
Ben Mazer
Gail Mazur
Mekeel McBride.
Shara McCallum
Janet McCann
Richard ?McCann
Linda ?McCarriston
J. D. McClatchy
Davis McCombs
Jeffrey McDaniel
Walt McDonald
Robert McDowell
Michael ?McFee
Campbell McGrath
Michael ?McGrath Heather McHugh
Tom McKeon
Rod McKuen
Lynne McMahon
James McManus
James McMichael
Mark McMorris
Wesley McNair
Sandra McPherson
Molly McQuade
Joyelle McSweeney
Gwyn McVay
Jane ?Mead
Pablo Medina
Jay ?Meek
Peter Meinke
David Meltzer
Samuel Menashe
Christopher Merrill
W. S. Merwin
Gary ?Metras
Philip Metres
Simone Meunch
Bernadette Meyer
Robert Mezey
E. Ethebert Miller
Chelsey Minnis
Roger Mitchell
Susan Mitchell
Ange Mlinko
Wendy Mnookin
Albert Mobilio
Jeff Mock
Kasey Silem Mohammad Carol Moldaw
N. Scott Momaday
Honor Moore
Todd Moore
Pat Mora
Frederick Morgan
Robert Morgan
Laura Moriarty
Malena M?rling Tracie Morris
Herbert Morris Rusty Morrison
Michael Morse
Thylias Moss
Jennifer Moxley
Lisel Mueller
Paul ?Muldoon
Harryette Mullen
Laura Mullen
David Mura
Sheila E. Murphy
Carol Muske (Dukes)
Jack Myers
Eileen Myles
Joe Napora
Leonard Nathan
Aldon Neilson
Marilyn Nelson
Mark Nepo
Leslea Newman=0
AAimee ?Nezhukumatathi l B.Z. Niditch
Kathleen Norris
Charles North
Alice Notley
D. Nurkse
Naomi Shihab Nye
Michael O'Brien
Ed Ochester
Sharon Olds
Carole Oles
Mary Oliver
William Olsen
Toby Olson
Tom Orange
Steve Orlen
Gregory Orr
Christian Ortega
Simon Ortiz Jacqueline Osherow
Jena Osman
Alicia Ostriker
Maureen Owen
Rochelle Owens
Robert Pack
Ron Padgett
Frankie Paino
Michael ?Palmer
Eric Pankey Greg Pape
Jay Parini
Cathy Hong Park
Alan Michael Parker
Linda ?Pastan
William B. Patrick
G.E. Patterson
Ed Pavlic Molly Peacock
Willie Perdomo
Lucia Perillo
Bob Perlman
Simon Pershik
Robert Peters
Carl Phillips
Dennis Phillips
Robert Phillips
Wanda Phipps
Marge Piercy
Robert Pinsky
Nick Piombino
Stanley Plumly
Robert Polito
Marie Ponsot
Carol Potter
D. A. Powell
Jim Powell
Minnie Bruce Pratt
Reynolds Price Kevin Prufer
Wyatt Prunty
Jason Quakenbush
Lawrence Raab
Charles Rafferty James Ragan
Bin Ramke
Claudia Rankine
Barbara Ras
Tom Raworth
David Ray
Judy Ray
Eugene Redmond
Spencer Reece
Ishmael Reed
D.J. Renegade
Joan Rettalack
Donald Revell
Barbara Jane Reyes
Adrienne Rich
Susan Rich
Tad Richards
James Richardson * Alberto Rios
Carter Rivard
David Rivard
Ed Roberson
Kit Robinson
Stephen Rodefer
Luis J. Rodriguez
Adelia Rodriguez Pattiann Rogers
Matthew Rohrer
David Romveldt Martha Ronk
Wendy Rose
Liz Rosenberg
Clare Rossini
Jerome Rothenberg
Gibbons Ruark
Mark Rudman
Mary Ruefle
Vern Rutsala
Kay Ryan
Michael ?Ryan
William Ryan
Ira Sadoff
Miriam Sagan
Natasha Saje
Jerome Sala
Mary Jo ?Salter
Fiona Sampson
Sonia Sanchez
Stephen Sandy=0
AReg Saner
Sherod Santos
?Sapphire
Cheryl Savageau
Aram Sayoran
Leslie Scalapino
Maxine Scates
Michael Scharf
Margot Schlipp
Dennis Schmitz
Gjertud Schnackenberg
Grace Schulman
Philip Schultz
Susan Schultz
Gerald Schwartz
Howard Schwartz
Leonard Schwartz
Lloyd Schwartz
Lynn Sharon Schwartz ?Frederick Seidel
Hugh Seidman
Rebecca Seiferle
Eric Murphy Selinger
Peter Serchuk
Vikram Seth
Patty Seyburn
Ntozake Shange
Ravi Shankar
Alan Shapiro
David Shapiro
Harvey Shapiro
Don Share
Brenda Shaughnessy
Laurie Sheck
Eve Shellnut
Richard ?Shelton
Evie Shockley
Enid Shomer Jane ?Shore
Gary ?Short
Beau Sia
Tim Siebles Eleni Sikelianos
Richard ?Siken
Edgar Gabriel Silex
Leslie Marmon Silko Ron Silliman
Charles ?Simic
Maurya Simon
Louis ?Simpson
Hal Sirowitz
Jeffrey Skinner
Knute Skinner
Floyd Skloot
David Slavitt
Tom Sleigh
Charlie Smith
Dale Smith
Dave ?Smith
Patricia ?Smith
R.T. Smith
Rod Smith
Tracy K. Smith
W. Loran Smith
William Jay Smith
Marc Smith Rod Smith Frederick Smock
Susan Snively
W.D. Snodgrass
Carol Snow
Gary ?Snyder
Jason Somer Cathy Song
Gary ?Soto
Marcia Southwick
Barry Spacks
Juliana Spahr
?Sparrow
Laurel Speer
Elizabeth Spires
Kathleen Spivack
David St. John
Primus St. John
Kim Stafford
A. E. Stallings
Maura Stanton
Timothy ?Steele
Kevin Stein
Gerald Stern
Pamela Stewart
Susan Stewart
Peter Stitt Ruth Stone
Mark Strand
Stephanie Strickland
Chris Stroffolino
Joseph Stroud
Lucian Stryk
Dabney Stuart
Virgil Suarez
Julie Suk
John Suorecki
Teresa Svoboda
Robert Sward
Cole Swenson
Karen Swenson
Wally Swist

William Sylvester
Arthur Sze
John Taggart John Tagliabue Dorothea Tanning
Stephen Tapscott
Nathaniel Tarn
James Tate
Eleanor Ross Taylor
Henry ?Taylor
Roberto Tejada
Diane Thiel
Lorenzo Thomas Robert Thomas Sue Ellen Thompson
Richard ?Till inghast
Daniel Tobin
Joseph Torra
Rodrigo Toscano
Tony Tost
Tony Towle
Ann Townsend
Natasha Tretheway
David Trinidad
Quincy ?Troupe
Lewis Turco
Brian Turner
Frederick Turner
Chase Twitchell
Leslie Ullman
John Updike
Lee Upton
Jean Valentine
Sally Van Doren
Michael ?Van Wallagen Nance Van Winckel
Paul ?Vangelisti
Reetika Vazirani
Tino Villanueva
Paul ?Violi
Arthur Vogelsang
Ellen Bryant Voigt
Connie Voisine
Karen Volkmann
Judith Vollmer
David Wagoner
Diane Wakowski
Derek Walcott
Anne Waldman
Liz Waldner
Keith Waldrop
Rosemaire Waldrop Frank X Walker
Laura Walker
Mark Wallace
Ronald Wallace
?Wammo
Connie Wanek
Diane Ward Thom Ward Belle Waring
Roseanna Warren
Lewis Warsh
Michael ?Waters
Ellen Dore Watson
Barrett Watten
Michael Afaa ?Weaver
Charles Harper Webb
Joe Wederoth
Rebecca Wee
Bruce Weigl
Roger Weingarten
Susan Wheeler
J.P. White
Ron Whitehead
Eliot Wienberger
Dara Wier
Richard ?Wilbur
Nancy Willard
Steve Willard
C. K. ?Williams
Miller Williams
Saul Williams
Tyrone Williams
Alan Williamson
Greg Williamson
Elizabeth Willis
Eleanor Wilner
Christian Wiman
Terrance Winch
Anne Winters
David Wojahn
Re becca Wolff
Susan Wood
Jeff Worley
Baron Wormser
C. D. Wright
Carolyne L. Wright
Charles Wright
Franz Wright
Jay ?Wright
Robert Wrigley
John Yau
Stephen Yenser David Yezzi
Jake=2
0Adam York
Al Young
David ?Young
Dean Young
Kevin Young
Gary ?Young Ray A. Young Bear
Matthew Zapruder
Cynthia Zarin Paul ?Zimmer
Harriet Zinnes
Martha Zwieg
**
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-- 
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http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
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I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! 





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From alexdickow9 at yahoo.com  Mon Oct  6 08:46:38 2008
From: alexdickow9 at yahoo.com (Alexander Dickow)
Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2008 05:46:38 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [New-Poetry] TOOT + I'm a big pirate and I like to steal! (devo) 
In-Reply-To: <200810051600.m95G05nK031444@wiz.cath.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <601055.63220.qm@web35507.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

"I was pretty happy to find out I didn't make the cut--until I discovered 
Dan Schneider didn't, either.  He and I seem about the only living 
American poets not  to, something that makes me wonder if knocking me 
into a tailspin by coupling me with that moron was really what this hoax 
was all about. . . .

--Bob G."

Gee, Bob, that hurts. Not only did Issue 1 forget me, but you did too! Rumors have it I am still alive, although some no doubt hold I barely count as American....

So, um, my book's coming out in, like, ten days in Paris. I have some review copies available for Americans and/or Brits, but not many: anyone have their hearts set on one? (The French seem to be loving it, although that might not mean much off the Continent....). Official announcement forthcoming shortly; still haven't found the time to do the proper press thing stateside...

Oh, and I kinda dig the latest literary mystification, although I dare say it ain't as fresh and new as it might look at first. High-falutin' pranks, including the ego-effacing variety, are part of a long (and very delightful) tradition....

I'm a Speed Racer and I Drive Real Fast,
Alex, still lurking and politically nauseous as usual 



From alexdickow9 at yahoo.com  Mon Oct  6 09:13:52 2008
From: alexdickow9 at yahoo.com (Alexander Dickow)
Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2008 06:13:52 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [New-Poetry] The List
In-Reply-To: <200810052313.m95NDUnK013181@wiz.cath.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <879261.20027.qm@web35505.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Gee, not on that one either. *sigh*.
Flying under the radar,
Alex


From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net  Mon Oct  6 10:14:51 2008
From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman)
Date: Mon, 06 Oct 2008 09:14:51 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] TOOT + I'm a big pirate and I like to steal! (devo)
In-Reply-To: <601055.63220.qm@web35507.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <601055.63220.qm@web35507.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <48EA1D5B.8020803@nut-n-but.net>

Alexander Dickow wrote:
> "I was pretty happy to find out I didn't make the cut--until I discovered 
> Dan Schneider didn't, either.  He and I seem about the only living 
> American poets not  to, something that makes me wonder if knocking me 
> into a tailspin by coupling me with that moron was really what this hoax 
> was all about. . . .
>
> --Bob G."
>
> Gee, Bob, that hurts. Not only did Issue 1 forget me, but you did too! Rumors have it I am still alive, although some no doubt hold I barely count as American....
>
> So, um, my book's coming out in, like, ten days in Paris. I have some review copies available for Americans and/or Brits, but not many: anyone have their hearts set on one? (The French seem to be loving it, although that might not mean much off the Continent....). Official announcement forthcoming shortly; still haven't found the time to do the proper press thing stateside...
>
> Oh, and I kinda dig the latest literary mystification, although I dare say it ain't as fresh and new as it might look at first. High-falutin' pranks, including the ego-effacing variety, are part of a long (and very delightful) tradition....
>
> I'm a Speed Racer and I Drive Real Fast,
> Alex, still lurking and politically nauseous as usual 
>   

Well, actually, I didn't forget you, Alex, as not bother reading all the 
names of the "contributors."  But, congratulations in being among those 
left off.  Now check James's list.  If your name isn't there, you're one 
up on me, 'cause mine is.  (But I think he added it ten minutes before I 
read it!)

--Bob



From jbalizsprince at googlemail.com  Mon Oct  6 09:19:04 2008
From: jbalizsprince at googlemail.com (Judy Prince)
Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2008 09:19:04 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] TOOT + I'm a big pirate and I like to steal! (devo)
In-Reply-To: <48EA1D5B.8020803@nut-n-but.net>
References: <601055.63220.qm@web35507.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<48EA1D5B.8020803@nut-n-but.net>
Message-ID: <7db1d01b0810060619x2e9d2a61x26da50bf6ca31fb3@mail.gmail.com>

I have 3 of your other books, Bob.  Tell us the title and something about
your latest one, please.
Judy, a USAmerican

2008/10/6 Bob Grumman <bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net>

> Alexander Dickow wrote:
>
>> "I was pretty happy to find out I didn't make the cut--until I discovered
>> Dan Schneider didn't, either.  He and I seem about the only living American
>> poets not  to, something that makes me wonder if knocking me into a tailspin
>> by coupling me with that moron was really what this hoax was all about. . .
>> .
>>
>> --Bob G."
>>
>> Gee, Bob, that hurts. Not only did Issue 1 forget me, but you did too!
>> Rumors have it I am still alive, although some no doubt hold I barely count
>> as American....
>>
>> So, um, my book's coming out in, like, ten days in Paris. I have some
>> review copies available for Americans and/or Brits, but not many: anyone
>> have their hearts set on one? (The French seem to be loving it, although
>> that might not mean much off the Continent....). Official announcement
>> forthcoming shortly; still haven't found the time to do the proper press
>> thing stateside...
>>
>> Oh, and I kinda dig the latest literary mystification, although I dare say
>> it ain't as fresh and new as it might look at first. High-falutin' pranks,
>> including the ego-effacing variety, are part of a long (and very delightful)
>> tradition....
>>
>> I'm a Speed Racer and I Drive Real Fast,
>> Alex, still lurking and politically nauseous as usual
>>
>
> Well, actually, I didn't forget you, Alex, as not bother reading all the
> names of the "contributors."  But, congratulations in being among those left
> off.  Now check James's list.  If your name isn't there, you're one up on
> me, 'cause mine is.  (But I think he added it ten minutes before I read it!)
>
> --Bob
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
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From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net  Mon Oct  6 10:21:33 2008
From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman)
Date: Mon, 06 Oct 2008 09:21:33 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] The List
In-Reply-To: <8CAF564D4215113-B2C-310E@FWM-M04.sysops.aol.com>
References: <8CAF564D4215113-B2C-310E@FWM-M04.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <48EA1EED.7020502@nut-n-but.net>

jforjames at aol.com wrote:
> I thought my list was bit bigger (approx. 950 names)
> American (I think) and living (I hope)...especially sorry
> if I missed some NewPoetry folks...

What's interesting to me about this list is not that it misses names but 
that it misses the names of just about all the genuinely experimental 
poets I know of--even though I consider James an enlightened 
representative of The Establishment (and, I'm sure, will agree that his 
list is incomplete).  Later I'll post my (sure-to-be-incomplete) list of 
names left off.

--Bob G


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From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net  Mon Oct  6 10:24:55 2008
From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman)
Date: Mon, 06 Oct 2008 09:24:55 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] TOOT + I'm a big pirate and I like to steal! (devo)
In-Reply-To: <48EA1D5B.8020803@nut-n-but.net>
References: <601055.63220.qm@web35507.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<48EA1D5B.8020803@nut-n-but.net>
Message-ID: <48EA1FB7.8070603@nut-n-but.net>

We should get together a list of lists of poets and give a prize to the 
published poet who is left off more of them than anyone else.

--Bob



From skip at louisiana.edu  Mon Oct  6 09:39:58 2008
From: skip at louisiana.edu (Skip Fox)
Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2008 08:39:58 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Pirates
In-Reply-To: <48EA1D5B.8020803@nut-n-but.net>
Message-ID: <6309615402E54418A2B52490A58246A5@win.louisiana.edu>

Newness as value. Currency as primary. Poetry as panty raid.

There are writers who believe newness is the primary value of artistic
production. Sometimes this yields brilliant work, as in Christian Bok's case
(and I heard the phrase "newness is value" in an interview with Bok), and
sometimes it yields the tedium of weather reports or a phonebook, etc.

"Poetry as Panty Raid" one might dub this in keeping with its youthful
spirit and artistic depth. 




From grahamd at ripon.edu  Mon Oct  6 09:57:30 2008
From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham)
Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2008 08:57:30 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] The List
In-Reply-To: <bfc.46ad9d87.361b5c45@aol.com>
References: <bfc.46ad9d87.361b5c45@aol.com>
Message-ID: <419B4F43-EC52-48E9-B2F8-82D1D917ADEB@ripon.edu>


On Oct 6, 2008, at 7:19 AM, AlMaginnes at aol.com wrote:

> All of these people have at least one book and in the case of James  
> Seay and Betty Adcock a lot of books and careers that span decades.
>
> Al

-------------------------------


While enjoying a recent sabbatical I gave myself a little informal  
project, which was to see how many "new" contemporary American poets  
I could discover.  "New" to me did not mean new in their careers, of  
course.  Far from it.  As Al notes, there are many poets with fairly  
well-established careers who fall under the radar of most poetry  
mavens.  Even people like myself--and I don't meet many who read  
*more* contemporary poetry than I do.  But we all seem to be reading  
different mental anthologies, it often seems, segregated by all the  
usual barriers of region, gender, class, university affiliation,  
race, style, aesthetic camp, individual bias, personal connections,  
and so forth.

Mostly I employed the web, though I also kept my eyes open at used  
bookstores, libraries, the book fair at AWP, etc.  I listened  
especially hard to recommendations from friends, former students, and  
such.  But mainly I cruised blogs, online journals, listservs, and  
the like.  And I didn't have to work very hard, as it happens. I'm  
online a lot anyway.  But I soon discovered I could turn up a couple- 
two-three good published poets new to me on a daily basis, if I wished.

All of which would be in addition to the literally thousands of poets  
already on my radar.

I wasn't very systematic about it, and no, I didn't actually compile  
any lists, though I suppose I could if there seemed much point in  
it.   I did find quite a few who were not only new to me, but  
delightful.  I bought a few more books than usual during my leave,  
alas & hooray.

Just to cite a few examples of poets I didn't know a year ago, but  
now am very fond of (in some cases I'd seen a few individual poems  
previously, but not many, and not whole books):

Erika Meitner
Adrian Metejka
Matthew Dickman
Ashley Capps
Kelle Groom
Danielle Pafunda
Jennifer L. Knox
Sean Norton
Jonah Winter
Adrian Blevins
Julianna Baggott
James Armstrong
Catherine Pierce
Paul Guest
Elizabeth Hadaway
Floyd Skloot

Some of the poets listed have had long, multi-book careers already,  
and none are published by truly obscure presses, incidentally.

Just curious:  how many poets on the above list are on *your* radar  
currently?

And even more curious:  name a few "new" ones from your own reading,  
why don't you?









========================================
David Graham
grahamd at ripon.edu

Home Page:
http://web.mac.com/drjazz

Poetry Library:
http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html
==========================================



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From AlMaginnes at aol.com  Mon Oct  6 10:00:16 2008
From: AlMaginnes at aol.com (AlMaginnes at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2008 10:00:16 EDT
Subject: [New-Poetry] The List
Message-ID: <bc8.3d864b0b.361b73f0@aol.com>

To add to David's list by one name, Matthew Dickman has a brother named  Michael who has a book out or just about to come out. I believe that they're  twins and they're both published by Copper Canyon. Must make Thanksgiving  interesting.



**************New MapQuest Local shows what's happening at your destination.  Dining, Movies, Events, News & more. Try it out!      (http://local.mapquest.com/?ncid=emlcntnew00000001)
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From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net  Mon Oct  6 11:56:15 2008
From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman)
Date: Mon, 06 Oct 2008 10:56:15 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] TOOT + I'm a big pirate and I like to steal! (devo)
In-Reply-To: <7db1d01b0810060619x2e9d2a61x26da50bf6ca31fb3@mail.gmail.com>
References: <601055.63220.qm@web35507.mail.mud.yahoo.com><48EA1D5B.8020803@nut-n-but.net>
	<7db1d01b0810060619x2e9d2a61x26da50bf6ca31fb3@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <48EA351F.7090306@nut-n-but.net>

It's Alex who has a new book coming out, Judy.  My latest is APRIL TO 
THE POWER OF THE QUANTITY PYTHAGORAS TIMES NOW, or something like that.  
Its real title uses real exponents, so I can't print it here.

It's for sale at Lulu.com:
http://sites.google.com/site/otolithsbooks/Home/april-to-the-power-of-the-quantity-pythagoras-times-now-by-bob-grumman

It costs $25 plus postage and handling, so is expensive, and I've just 
been told the price will very soon go even higher because Lulu has 
raised its price for printing color, so order quickly, anyone who wants 
a copy!

Thanks for asking, Judy

--Bob





From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net  Mon Oct  6 12:05:46 2008
From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman)
Date: Mon, 06 Oct 2008 11:05:46 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Pirates
In-Reply-To: <6309615402E54418A2B52490A58246A5@win.louisiana.edu>
References: <6309615402E54418A2B52490A58246A5@win.louisiana.edu>
Message-ID: <48EA375A.8040308@nut-n-but.net>

Skip, what's your take on poetry that has nothing new in it?  I mean, 
nothing significantly new--since every poem has words in a new 
arrangement, or new ink, or something's that's new.

--Bob G.



From skip at louisiana.edu  Mon Oct  6 11:23:56 2008
From: skip at louisiana.edu (Skip Fox)
Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2008 10:23:56 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Pirates
In-Reply-To: <48EA375A.8040308@nut-n-but.net>
Message-ID: <8E2D86A8F57F4EF992E1BBC2BB73135B@win.louisiana.edu>

"Newness is value" is not my credo at all, at least the way they (mostly
"materialists") seem to mean it as the "ultimate" or "central" value.  (And
I'm not a materialist.)

I think it is probably part of the value (imagine writing a "Essay on
Civilization" in perfect 18th century rhymed couplets . . . no matter how
good, it's ultimately an exercise).

One thinks with (and against, through, etc.) the mind of one's time and
language, it seems, and any work which is just affirming settled verities or
observations seems deficient.

But "newness" is not an ultimate value to me. Though its intimate to the
process.

Bob, did I send a copy of my recent book? If not, please send snail mail
address to: skip at louisiana.edu . (I'll be glad to send one, BlazeVox, to
anyone who wants. Just send snail mail address . . . no looking for reviews
but for anyone who might read.)

-----Original Message-----
From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu
[mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Bob Grumman
Sent: Monday, October 06, 2008 11:06 AM
To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &amp;Views
Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Re: Pirates

Skip, what's your take on poetry that has nothing new in it?  I mean, 
nothing significantly new--since every poem has words in a new 
arrangement, or new ink, or something's that's new.

--Bob G.

_______________________________________________
New-Poetry mailing list
New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry




From cervantes.james at gmail.com  Mon Oct  6 11:55:44 2008
From: cervantes.james at gmail.com (James Cervantes)
Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2008 08:55:44 -0700
Subject: [New-Poetry] Concerning "fauxpo"
Message-ID: <648208b60810060855v64b90d48ocdc469706a6f9f3c@mail.gmail.com>

from The Writer's Chronicle (AWP), October/November 2008, "A Recognizable
Life: An Interview with Dick Allen," by Leslie McGrath:

"McGrath: What are your thoughts about the fragmented, elliptical,
'difficult' poetry written by many young American poets today?

Allen:  If you're talking about Language Poetry, I don't consider it
'poetry' but faux poetry, fauxpo, done by theorists.  That's fine and
enjoyable in the head, just as Dada was fine and enjoyable, but it's not
poetry.  Poetry is an emotional art, which may contain a great deal of
reason, but without emotion, without strong ties to understandability,
fragmented, elliptical, 'difficult' writing of that sort is just words in
arrangements.

     In the future, this sort of stuff might mutate to become sections of
larger future poems in which there's much weaving through nonsense to
meaning.  Some young poets seem to be starting to work in these directions,
but we're still waiting.  When the general public, or even the non-English
major college student begins buying and quoting these works, then something
will have happened.  But it doesn't seem to me that we're anywhere near
there yet.

     I'm also wondering about the amount of trivia included in many of
today's poems.  It seems necessary to include trivia because trivia is so
much part and parcel of the 21st century consciousness and day-to-day life.
Yet will the future care to remember X-men or a cell phone ring, even when
footnoted?  I think there are still new and specific and memorable ways to
write about the eternal."

Talking points:

Isn't all poetry "words in arrangements"?

Who is writing the kind of poetry Allen  hints at in the second paragraph of
his response?

Who has the answers on what is eternal?

Why won't Allen pal around with terrorists?

- Jim

"Whatever gets you through the night, babe." - Frank Sinatra
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org
http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning
http://www.fieralingue.it/documenti/mr_bondo.pdf
http://www.poetserv.org/jvc/home/index.html
http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamescervantes/
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From jbalizsprince at googlemail.com  Mon Oct  6 12:52:10 2008
From: jbalizsprince at googlemail.com (Judy Prince)
Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2008 12:52:10 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] TOOT + I'm a big pirate and I like to steal! (devo)
In-Reply-To: <48EA351F.7090306@nut-n-but.net>
References: <601055.63220.qm@web35507.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<48EA1D5B.8020803@nut-n-but.net>
	<7db1d01b0810060619x2e9d2a61x26da50bf6ca31fb3@mail.gmail.com>
	<48EA351F.7090306@nut-n-but.net>
Message-ID: <7db1d01b0810060952s10a8aa6fl41cafdd13bc3d26a@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks for the correction, Bob.  Re your latest book, whatever its title:
 What's it about?  I never got beyond algebra, having been shunted into the
secretarial pool of classes in middle and high school, so tell me it is NOT
about theoretical math!
How about your copying in one of the intro pages front channel here at NP?
 That'll give us some notion of Grumpy Grummy's ideas that'll cost us
upwards of $25.
Best,

Judy

2008/10/6 Bob Grumman <bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net>

> It's Alex who has a new book coming out, Judy.  My latest is APRIL TO THE
> POWER OF THE QUANTITY PYTHAGORAS TIMES NOW, or something like that.  Its
> real title uses real exponents, so I can't print it here.
>
> It's for sale at Lulu.com:
>
> http://sites.google.com/site/otolithsbooks/Home/april-to-the-power-of-the-quantity-pythagoras-times-now-by-bob-grumman
>
> It costs $25 plus postage and handling, so is expensive, and I've just been
> told the price will very soon go even higher because Lulu has raised its
> price for printing color, so order quickly, anyone who wants a copy!
>
> Thanks for asking, Judy
>
>
> --Bob
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
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From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net  Mon Oct  6 14:00:18 2008
From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman)
Date: Mon, 06 Oct 2008 13:00:18 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Pirates
In-Reply-To: <8E2D86A8F57F4EF992E1BBC2BB73135B@win.louisiana.edu>
References: <8E2D86A8F57F4EF992E1BBC2BB73135B@win.louisiana.edu>
Message-ID: <48EA5232.4020608@nut-n-but.net>

Skip Fox wrote:
> "Newness is value" is not my credo at all, at least the way they (mostly
> "materialists") seem to mean it as the "ultimate" or "central" value.  (And
> I'm not a materialist.)
>
> I think it is probably part of the value (imagine writing a "Essay on
> Civilization" in perfect 18th century rhymed couplets . . . no matter how
> good, it's ultimately an exercise).
>
> One thinks with (and against, through, etc.) the mind of one's time and
> language, it seems, and any work which is just affirming settled verities or
> observations seems deficient.
>
> But "newness" is not an ultimate value to me. Though its intimate to the
> process.
>   
I really have nothing new to add.  Just wanted to repeat my boilerplate 
that a poem has to be new in some meaningful way to be worth an 
engagent's time.  "What have I done in this poem that's never been in a 
poem before?" is a question too few poets ask when they've completed a 
poem.  Or, more reasonably, "what am I doing in my poetry?"--since it's 
silly to expect someone to do something new in every poem--just in one's 
work as a whole, and not forever.

--Bob G.



From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net  Mon Oct  6 14:28:16 2008
From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman)
Date: Mon, 06 Oct 2008 13:28:16 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] TOOT + I'm a big pirate and I like to steal! (devo)
In-Reply-To: <7db1d01b0810060952s10a8aa6fl41cafdd13bc3d26a@mail.gmail.com>
References: <601055.63220.qm@web35507.mail.mud.yahoo.com><48EA1D5B.8020803@nut-n-but.net><7db1d01b0810060619x2e9d2a61x26da50bf6ca
	31fb3@mail.gmail.com><48EA351F.7090306@nut-n-but.net>
	<7db1d01b0810060952s10a8aa6fl41cafdd13bc3d26a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <48EA58C0.20709@nut-n-but.net>

It's a collection of my math poems, Judy--but it includes my explanatory 
introduction, and most of them are long division, not algebra. 

Here's what's at Lulu about it:
 *

April to the Power of the Quantity Pythagoras Times Now

*

Bob Grumman

72 pages

ISBN: 978-0-9804541-6-1

Otoliths 2008

$24.95 + p&h

URL: http://www.lulu.com/content/2266718

 

"Collected in Bob Grumman's book /April to the Power of the Quantity 
Pythagoras Times Now/ are almost two decades' worth of mathemaku, a 
personal genre of his that combines elements of visual poetry, 
mathematics, and haiku. Always the poet of the topical constraint, 
Grumman writes mathemaku that restrict themselves to a narrow range of 
subjects (spring, poetry, language, light) so he can divert all his 
effort into creating remarkable engines of poetic imagination where 
language, color, images, and mathematics conjoin to form stunning 
ineluctable gestalts. Drawing from his early pre-long-division mathemaku 
and his more recent forays into color and ever-increasing formal 
complexity, this book brings together a hearty sampling of the best of 
Grumman's mathemaku, including such masterworks as "Mathemaku for Ezra 
Pound" and "Seaside Mathemaku." A lifetime in the making, this book is 
not to be missed." *?Geof Huth*
 
 
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From AlMaginnes at aol.com  Mon Oct  6 14:34:53 2008
From: AlMaginnes at aol.com (AlMaginnes at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2008 14:34:53 EDT
Subject: [New-Poetry] Toot--In case you missed it!
Message-ID: <c08.4a075f6f.361bb44d@aol.com>

Ever the crass one, here is a link to my new one from White Pine  Press:
 

_http://www.amazon.com/Ghost-Alphabet-White-Press-Poetry/dp/1893996212/ref=sr_
1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1223317590&sr=1-1_ 
(http://www.amazon.com/Ghost-Alphabet-White-Press-Poetry/dp/1893996212/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1223317590&
sr=1-1) 




**************New MapQuest Local shows what's happening at your destination.  
Dining, Movies, Events, News & more. Try it out!      
(http://local.mapquest.com/?ncid=emlcntnew00000001)
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From anny.ballardini at gmail.com  Mon Oct  6 14:49:46 2008
From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2008 20:49:46 +0200
Subject: [New-Poetry] TOOT + I'm a big pirate and I like to steal! (devo)
In-Reply-To: <48EA58C0.20709@nut-n-but.net>
References: <601055.63220.qm@web35507.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<48EA1D5B.8020803@nut-n-but.net> <48EA351F.7090306@nut-n-but.net>
	<7db1d01b0810060952s10a8aa6fl41cafdd13bc3d26a@mail.gmail.com>
	<48EA58C0.20709@nut-n-but.net>
Message-ID: <4b65c2d70810061149t7bce2c89qcd5b0ad10bdad978@mail.gmail.com>

Ah Geof Huth, he is incredible. Oh well, also Bob Grumman, :-)

On Mon, Oct 6, 2008 at 8:28 PM, Bob Grumman <bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net>wrote:

>  It's a collection of my math poems, Judy--but it includes my explanatory
> introduction, and most of them are long division, not algebra.
>
> Here's what's at Lulu about it:
>  *
>
> April to the Power of the Quantity Pythagoras Times Now
> *
>
> Bob Grumman
>
> 72 pages
>
> ISBN: 978-0-9804541-6-1
>
> Otoliths 2008
>
> $24.95 + p&h
>
> URL: http://www.lulu.com/content/2266718
>
>
> "Collected in Bob Grumman's book *April to the Power of the Quantity
> Pythagoras Times Now* are almost two decades' worth of mathemaku, a
> personal genre of his that combines elements of visual poetry, mathematics,
> and haiku. Always the poet of the topical constraint, Grumman writes
> mathemaku that restrict themselves to a narrow range of subjects (spring,
> poetry, language, light) so he can divert all his effort into creating
> remarkable engines of poetic imagination where language, color, images, and
> mathematics conjoin to form stunning ineluctable gestalts. Drawing from his
> early pre-long-division mathemaku and his more recent forays into color and
> ever-increasing formal complexity, this book brings together a hearty
> sampling of the best of Grumman's mathemaku, including such masterworks as
> "Mathemaku for Ezra Pound" and "Seaside Mathemaku." A lifetime in the
> making, this book is not to be missed." *?Geof Huth*
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
>


-- 
Anny Ballardini
http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html
I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing
star!
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From anny.ballardini at gmail.com  Mon Oct  6 14:53:56 2008
From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2008 20:53:56 +0200
Subject: [New-Poetry] Concerning "fauxpo"
In-Reply-To: <648208b60810060855v64b90d48ocdc469706a6f9f3c@mail.gmail.com>
References: <648208b60810060855v64b90d48ocdc469706a6f9f3c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4b65c2d70810061153q42f97e49gac3d93b292d35259@mail.gmail.com>

I agree with Dick Allen.
I'll answer the third question:

Leonardo, Dante, Nietzsche, Baudelaire, Hoelderlin, Schiller, Ezra Pound,
and several more.

On Mon, Oct 6, 2008 at 5:55 PM, James Cervantes
<cervantes.james at gmail.com>wrote:

> from The Writer's Chronicle (AWP), October/November 2008, "A Recognizable
> Life: An Interview with Dick Allen," by Leslie McGrath:
>
> "McGrath: What are your thoughts about the fragmented, elliptical,
> 'difficult' poetry written by many young American poets today?
>
> Allen:  If you're talking about Language Poetry, I don't consider it
> 'poetry' but faux poetry, fauxpo, done by theorists.  That's fine and
> enjoyable in the head, just as Dada was fine and enjoyable, but it's not
> poetry.  Poetry is an emotional art, which may contain a great deal of
> reason, but without emotion, without strong ties to understandability,
> fragmented, elliptical, 'difficult' writing of that sort is just words in
> arrangements.
>
>      In the future, this sort of stuff might mutate to become sections of
> larger future poems in which there's much weaving through nonsense to
> meaning.  Some young poets seem to be starting to work in these directions,
> but we're still waiting.  When the general public, or even the non-English
> major college student begins buying and quoting these works, then something
> will have happened.  But it doesn't seem to me that we're anywhere near
> there yet.
>
>      I'm also wondering about the amount of trivia included in many of
> today's poems.  It seems necessary to include trivia because trivia is so
> much part and parcel of the 21st century consciousness and day-to-day life.
> Yet will the future care to remember X-men or a cell phone ring, even when
> footnoted?  I think there are still new and specific and memorable ways to
> write about the eternal."
>
> Talking points:
>
> Isn't all poetry "words in arrangements"?
>
> Who is writing the kind of poetry Allen  hints at in the second paragraph
> of his response?
>
> Who has the answers on what is eternal?
>
> Why won't Allen pal around with terrorists?
>
> - Jim
>
> "Whatever gets you through the night, babe." - Frank Sinatra
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org
> http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning
> http://www.fieralingue.it/documenti/mr_bondo.pdf
> http://www.poetserv.org/jvc/home/index.html
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamescervantes/
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
>


-- 
Anny Ballardini
http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html
I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing
star!
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From jforjames at aol.com  Mon Oct  6 14:59:45 2008
From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 06 Oct 2008 14:59:45 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] TOOT + I'm a big pirate and I like to steal! (devo)
In-Reply-To: <48EA1D5B.8020803@nut-n-but.net>
References: <601055.63220.qm@web35507.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<48EA1D5B.8020803@nut-n-but.net>
Message-ID: <8CAF5FCD51A73EF-A90-292@WEBMAIL-DZ09.sysops.aol.com>



Now check James's list. If your name isn't there, you're one up on me, 'cause mine is. (But I think he added it ten minutes before I read it!)?
?



How could you tell, Bob, were the pixels still wet?
I bolded your name so even the near-sighted could see it?on the first pass.
Jim F
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From cervantes.james at gmail.com  Mon Oct  6 15:31:15 2008
From: cervantes.james at gmail.com (James Cervantes)
Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2008 12:31:15 -0700
Subject: [New-Poetry] Concerning "fauxpo"
In-Reply-To: <4b65c2d70810061153q42f97e49gac3d93b292d35259@mail.gmail.com>
References: <648208b60810060855v64b90d48ocdc469706a6f9f3c@mail.gmail.com>
	<4b65c2d70810061153q42f97e49gac3d93b292d35259@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <648208b60810061231q54801887n35ba31325b768f2b@mail.gmail.com>

Yes, but going on to living, breathing poets, I'd count Skip Fox as the kind
of poet Allen doesn't seem to think exists.
- Jim

On Mon, Oct 6, 2008 at 11:53 AM, Anny Ballardini
<anny.ballardini at gmail.com>wrote:

> I agree with Dick Allen.
> I'll answer the third question:
>
> Leonardo, Dante, Nietzsche, Baudelaire, Hoelderlin, Schiller, Ezra Pound,
> and several more.
>
> On Mon, Oct 6, 2008 at 5:55 PM, James Cervantes <cervantes.james at gmail.com
> > wrote:
>
>> from The Writer's Chronicle (AWP), October/November 2008, "A Recognizable
>> Life: An Interview with Dick Allen," by Leslie McGrath:
>>
>> "McGrath: What are your thoughts about the fragmented, elliptical,
>> 'difficult' poetry written by many young American poets today?
>>
>> Allen:  If you're talking about Language Poetry, I don't consider it
>> 'poetry' but faux poetry, fauxpo, done by theorists.  That's fine and
>> enjoyable in the head, just as Dada was fine and enjoyable, but it's not
>> poetry.  Poetry is an emotional art, which may contain a great deal of
>> reason, but without emotion, without strong ties to understandability,
>> fragmented, elliptical, 'difficult' writing of that sort is just words in
>> arrangements.
>>
>>      In the future, this sort of stuff might mutate to become sections of
>> larger future poems in which there's much weaving through nonsense to
>> meaning.  Some young poets seem to be starting to work in these directions,
>> but we're still waiting.  When the general public, or even the non-English
>> major college student begins buying and quoting these works, then something
>> will have happened.  But it doesn't seem to me that we're anywhere near
>> there yet.
>>
>>      I'm also wondering about the amount of trivia included in many of
>> today's poems.  It seems necessary to include trivia because trivia is so
>> much part and parcel of the 21st century consciousness and day-to-day life.
>> Yet will the future care to remember X-men or a cell phone ring, even
>> when footnoted?  I think there are still new and specific and memorable ways
>> to write about the eternal."
>>
>> Talking points:
>>
>> Isn't all poetry "words in arrangements"?
>>
>> Who is writing the kind of poetry Allen  hints at in the second paragraph
>> of his response?
>>
>> Who has the answers on what is eternal?
>>
>> Why won't Allen pal around with terrorists?
>>
>> - Jim
>>
>> "Whatever gets you through the night, babe." - Frank Sinatra
>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>> Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org
>> http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning
>> http://www.fieralingue.it/documenti/mr_bondo.pdf
>> http://www.poetserv.org/jvc/home/index.html
>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamescervantes/
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> New-Poetry mailing list
>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Anny Ballardini
> http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
> http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
> http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html
> I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing
> star!
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
>


-- 
"Whatever gets you through the night, babe." - Frank Sinatra
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org
http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning
http://www.fieralingue.it/documenti/mr_bondo.pdf
http://www.poetserv.org/jvc/home/index.html
http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamescervantes/
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From jforjames at aol.com  Mon Oct  6 17:54:08 2008
From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 06 Oct 2008 17:54:08 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] The List
In-Reply-To: <419B4F43-EC52-48E9-B2F8-82D1D917ADEB@ripon.edu>
References: <bfc.46ad9d87.361b5c45@aol.com>
	<419B4F43-EC52-48E9-B2F8-82D1D917ADEB@ripon.edu>
Message-ID: <8CAF6152E4E04D4-A90-10C7@WEBMAIL-DZ09.sysops.aol.com>

Given that I had 950 names on that first cut, and several?listers?have?noted the omissions are many, I wonder
what the universe of living USAmerican poets is? Limiting it those poets who are actively engaged in the art,
whether publishing regularly or not, 3000 would be my guess. 

Floyd Skloot was the only name on your list that I could definitely say I recognized. 
Finnegan

-----Original Message-----
From: David Graham <grahamd at ripon.edu>
Sent: Mon, 6 Oct 2008 9:57 am
Subject: [New-Poetry] The List






Erika Meitner

Adrian Metejka

Matthew Dickman

Ashley Capps

Kelle Groom?

Danielle Pafunda

Jennifer L. Knox

Sean Norton

Jonah Winter

Adrian Blevins

Julianna Baggott

James Armstrong

Catherine Pierce

Paul Guest

Elizabeth Hadaway

Floyd Skloot




Some of the poets listed have had long, multi-book careers already, and none are published by truly obscure presses, incidentally.




Just curious: ?how many poets on the above list are on *your* radar currently? ?




And even more curious: ?name a few "new" ones from your own reading, why don't you?


























========================================

David Graham

grahamd at ripon.edu




Home Page:

http://web.mac.com/drjazz




Poetry Library:

http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html

==========================================








= 


_______________________________________________
New-Poetry mailing list
New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry

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From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net  Mon Oct  6 18:56:55 2008
From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman)
Date: Mon, 06 Oct 2008 17:56:55 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Concerning "fauxpo"
In-Reply-To: <4b65c2d70810061153q42f97e49gac3d93b292d35259@mail.gmail.com>
References: <648208b60810060855v64b90d48ocdc469706a6f9f3c@mail.gmail.com>
	<4b65c2d70810061153q42f97e49gac3d93b292d35259@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <48EA97B7.2010208@nut-n-but.net>

Anny Ballardini wrote:
> I agree with Dick Allen.
> I'll answer the third question:
I don't believe you, Anny!  I've rarely read anything so obtuse.  One of 
those  blodge-gushers that contains so much stupidity, one wonders how 
to respond to it.  Sure, to take one of its stupidities, some language 
poets are "unemotional," but many are not.  I wonder, can there be an 
unemotional poem?  I'd like to see one.  As for "understandable," why do 
Philistines always assume that if they can't understand some poem, it is 
not understandable?  And I'm no champion of language poetry.  I do think 
that some poets are too easily satisfied with babble that occasionally 
baubles, and some engagents too easily satisfied with babble they can 
free-associate wherever they want to from, without regard for any 
over-all unifying principle that could exponentiate (that's a 
Grummanism, folks) all they can reasonably free-associate to into a 
final meaning vastly superior to the sum of the trivial meanings they 
free-associate to.

Plus, your answer to the third question could not have been more faulty: 
you left out my name!  My answer to what is eternal: everything. 

--Bob G.



From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net  Mon Oct  6 19:04:52 2008
From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman)
Date: Mon, 06 Oct 2008 18:04:52 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] TOOT + I'm a big pirate and I like to steal! (devo)
In-Reply-To: <8CAF5FCD51A73EF-A90-292@WEBMAIL-DZ09.sysops.aol.com>
References: <601055.63220.qm@web35507.mail.mud.yahoo.com><48EA1D5B.8020803@nut-n-but.net>
	<8CAF5FCD51A73EF-A90-292@WEBMAIL-DZ09.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <48EA9994.4060306@nut-n-but.net>

jforjames at aol.com wrote:
>
>     Now check James's list. If your name isn't there, you're one up on
>     me, 'cause mine is. (But I think he added it ten minutes before I
>     read it!) 
>      
>
>
>
> How could you tell, Bob, were the pixels still wet?
Nope.  I have a program that rings a bell every time my name is posted 
to the Internet, and it rang just before I checked your list. Of course, 
it could have been someone else who posted it, but it was quite suspicious.

> I bolded your name so even the near-sighted could see it on the first 
> pass.
> Jim F
Haw, it did seem Very Large.  But so far I've found the names of 42 of 
my pals you left out, so you better make my name even bigger to make up 
for that.

--Bob
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From Rsgwynn1 at cs.com  Mon Oct  6 18:16:02 2008
From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com (Rsgwynn1 at cs.com)
Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2008 18:16:02 EDT
Subject: [New-Poetry] Concerning "fauxpo"
Message-ID: <c88.376eb5ed.361be822@cs.com>

In a message dated 10/6/2008 4:56:31 PM Central Daylight Time, 
bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net writes: 
> As for "understandable," why do 
> Philistines always assume that if they can't understand some poem, it is 
> not understandable?  And I'm no champion of language poetry.  I do think 
> that some poets are too easily satisfied with babble that occasionally 
> baubles, and some engagents too easily satisfied with babble they can 
> free-associate wherever they want to from, without regard for any 
> over-all unifying principle that could exponentiate (that's a 
> Grummanism, folks) all they can reasonably free-associate to into a 
> final meaning vastly superior to the sum of the trivial meanings they 
> free-associate to.
> 
> Plus, your answer to the third question could not have been more faulty: 
> you left out my name!  My answer to what is eternal: everything. 
> 
> --Bob G.
> 
My standard answer to this is that if I can't understand it, it may well be 
ununderstandable.  After all, I've devoted 2/3 of my life to writing, writing 
about, and teaching the stuff, and I've anthologized and taught a lot of 
different kinds of poetry--most of us highly unlike anything I might write.  So if I
, arrogant Sam the expert, cannot understand it, then who can?  If the answer 
to this is "arrogant Sam the expert, you are obtuse," then my life's work has 
been in vain. And I don't equate "understanding it" with 
"understanding-what-it's-doing-but-I-could-not-care-less."  Poetry that is randomly generated by a 
computer falls into this latter category.  Whoop-de-doo!   
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From jfq at myuw.net  Mon Oct  6 12:22:24 2008
From: jfq at myuw.net (Jason Quackenbush)
Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2008 00:22:24 +0800
Subject: [New-Poetry] Concerning "fauxpo"
In-Reply-To: <648208b60810060855v64b90d48ocdc469706a6f9f3c@mail.gmail.com>
References: <648208b60810060855v64b90d48ocdc469706a6f9f3c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <9EEC6EB3-269D-41B8-A14D-681A4779313B@myuw.net>

I write the kind of poetry he talks about in the second paragraph.

i would argue that any number of the language poets did too. and  
they're all old now.
On Oct 6, 2008, at 11:55 PM, James Cervantes wrote:

> from The Writer's Chronicle (AWP), October/November 2008, "A  
> Recognizable Life: An Interview with Dick Allen," by Leslie McGrath:
>
> "McGrath: What are your thoughts about the fragmented, elliptical,  
> 'difficult' poetry written by many young American poets today?
>
> Allen:  If you're talking about Language Poetry, I don't consider  
> it 'poetry' but faux poetry, fauxpo, done by theorists.  That's  
> fine and enjoyable in the head, just as Dada was fine and  
> enjoyable, but it's not poetry.  Poetry is an emotional art, which  
> may contain a great deal of reason, but without emotion, without  
> strong ties to understandability, fragmented, elliptical,  
> 'difficult' writing of that sort is just words in arrangements.
>
>      In the future, this sort of stuff might mutate to become  
> sections of larger future poems in which there's much weaving  
> through nonsense to meaning.  Some young poets seem to be starting  
> to work in these directions, but we're still waiting.  When the  
> general public, or even the non-English major college student  
> begins buying and quoting these works, then something will have  
> happened.  But it doesn't seem to me that we're anywhere near there  
> yet.
>
>      I'm also wondering about the amount of trivia included in many  
> of today's poems.  It seems necessary to include trivia because  
> trivia is so much part and parcel of the 21st century consciousness  
> and day-to-day life.  Yet will the future care to remember X-men or  
> a cell phone ring, even when footnoted?  I think there are still  
> new and specific and memorable ways to write about the eternal."
>
> Talking points:
>
> Isn't all poetry "words in arrangements"?
>
> Who is writing the kind of poetry Allen  hints at in the second  
> paragraph of his response?
>
> Who has the answers on what is eternal?
>
> Why won't Allen pal around with terrorists?
>
> - Jim
>
> "Whatever gets you through the night, babe." - Frank Sinatra
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org
> http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning
> http://www.fieralingue.it/documenti/mr_bondo.pdf
> http://www.poetserv.org/jvc/home/index.html
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamescervantes/
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry

Jason Quackenbush
jfq at myuw.net




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From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net  Mon Oct  6 21:23:31 2008
From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman)
Date: Mon, 06 Oct 2008 20:23:31 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] James's List of Poets
In-Reply-To: <8CAF5FCD51A73EF-A90-292@WEBMAIL-DZ09.sysops.aol.com>
References: <601055.63220.qm@web35507.mail.mud.yahoo.com><48EA1D5B.8020803@nut-n-but.net>
	<8CAF5FCD51A73EF-A90-292@WEBMAIL-DZ09.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <48EABA13.7080600@nut-n-but.net>

Here are my additions (so far) to James's list, all but maybe one or two 
of them what I call burstnorm poets, mainly visual poets.  44 or them.  
I'm sure I've missed at least that many more.  There are also, I 
suspect, as many or more burst-n-norm haiku poets not on the list.

Ed Baker
Michael Basinski
Guy R. Beining
John M. Bennett
Jake Berry
Jonathan Brannen
John Byrum
Thomas Cassidy
David Baptiste Chirot
Paul Collier
Edmund Conti
Lloyd Dunn
Cliff Dweller
K. S. Ernst
William L. Fox
Vernon Frazer
Bob Gregory
Jefferson Hansen
Scott Helmes
Crag Hill
Geof Huth
Kevin Kelly
Karl Kempton
M. Kettner
David Kopaska-Merkel
Joel Lipman
Malok
Ezra Mark
Stephen-Paul Martin
John Martone
Will Napoli
Harry Polkinhorn
Marilyn Rosenberg
Andrew Russ
Gregory Vincent St. Thomasino
Carol Stetser
Ficus strangulensis
Larry Tomoyasu
Cor van den Heuvel
Nico Vassilakis
John Vieira
Irving Weiss
Thomas Wiloch
Karl Young

--Bob G.






From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net  Mon Oct  6 21:30:33 2008
From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman)
Date: Mon, 06 Oct 2008 20:30:33 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Concerning "fauxpo"
In-Reply-To: <9EEC6EB3-269D-41B8-A14D-681A4779313B@myuw.net>
References: <648208b60810060855v64b90d48ocdc469706a6f9f3c@mail.gmail.com>
	<9EEC6EB3-269D-41B8-A14D-681A4779313B@myuw.net>
Message-ID: <48EABBB9.5000102@nut-n-but.net>

Jason Quackenbush wrote:
> I write the kind of poetry he talks about in the second paragraph.
>
> i would argue that any number of the language poets did too. and 
> they're all old now.

Right, like Theodore Roethke.  (I'm serious: in several of his late 
poems he begins in seeming nonsense that I consider langpo and evolves 
his poem out of it.)

--Bob G.



From jfq at myuw.net  Mon Oct  6 20:52:44 2008
From: jfq at myuw.net (Jason Quackenbush)
Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2008 08:52:44 +0800
Subject: [New-Poetry] The List
In-Reply-To: <8CAF564D4215113-B2C-310E@FWM-M04.sysops.aol.com>
References: <8CAF564D4215113-B2C-310E@FWM-M04.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <F4077F28-A6B6-44FB-8E76-732CFE05BECD@myuw.net>

i'm on it. nifty. except there's a 'c' in quackenbush and I write as  
jf quackenbush, but everybody can call me jason. or j. or hey  
asshole. i answer to all of the above.

here are the people i'd add off the top of my head

kristin bird
edmund berrigan
roger bonair-agard
adam fieled
karen finneyfrock
alan fox
ragan fox
tim green
marged howley
justin katko
mark leidner
joe massey
sharon mesmer
karyna mcglynn
rachel mckibbens
marty mcconnell
anis mojgani
stacie primeaux
tony robbins
jeremy richards
jessica smith
morris stegosaurus
buddy wakefield

On Oct 6, 2008, at 8:51 AM, jforjames at aol.com wrote:

> I thought my list was bit bigger (approx. 950 names)
> American (I think) and living (I hope)...especially sorry
> if I missed some NewPoetry folks...
>
> Millicent Borges Accardi
> Diane Ackerman
> Kim Addonizio
> Julia Agoos
> Jack Ag?eros
>  Ai
> Susan Aizenberg
> Sandra Alcosser
> Jane  Aleshire
> Elizabeth Alexander
> Will Alexander
> Sherman Alexie
> Miguel Algarin
> Kazim Ali
> Funk Alison
> Dick  Allen
> Julie Alvarez
> mIEKAL aND
> Doug Anderson
> Jack Anderson
> Bruce Andrews
> Nin Andrews
> Tom Andrews
> Ralph Angel
> Maya Angelou
> Talvikki Ansel
> David Antin
>  Antler
> Philip Appleman
> Jack Argueros
> Rae Armantrout
> Bob Arnold
> Craig Arnold
> John Ash
> John Ashbery
> Renee Ashley
> Donald Everett Axinn
> Jimmy Santiago Baca
> David Baker
> John Balaban
> Peter Balakian
> Anna Balint
> Mary Jo  Bang
> Amiri Baraka
> Walter Bargen
> Walter Bargen
> Coleman Barks
> Jim Barnes
> Aliki Barnstone
> Dennis Barone
> Gerald Barrax
> Dorothy Barresi
> Ellen Bass
> Wendy Battin
> Bruce Bauer
> Judith Baumel
> Bruce Bawer
> J. P. Dancing Bear
> Bruce Beasley
> Paul  Beatty
> Robin Becker
> Joshua Beckman
> Robin Behn
> Erin Belieu
> Marvin Bell
> Dodie Bellamy
> Aaron Belz
> John Bensko
> Steve Benson
> Stephen Berg
> Carol Berge
> Bill Berkson
> Charles Bernstein
> Anselm Berrigan
> Wendell Berry
> Mei-Mei Berssenbrugge
> Jill Bialosky
> Frank Bidart
> Linda  Bierds
> George Bilgere
> Sophie Cabot Black
> Star Black
> Robin Blaser
> Randy Blasing
> Chana Bloch
> Michael=C
> 2 Blumenthal
> Robert Bly
> Michelle Boisseau
> Christian Bok
> Tom Bolt
> Bruce Bond
> Laure-Anne Booselar
> Marianne Boruch
> Laura Boss
> David Bottoms
> Kevin Bowen
> Catherine Bowman
> George Bradley
> John Bradley
> Joe Brainard
> Kate Braverman
> Kim Bridgford
> Geoffrey Brock
> Lucie  Brock-Broido
> David Bromige
> Catherine Savage Brosman
> Olga Broumas
> Joel Brouwer
> Fleda Brown
> Kurt Brown
> Lee Ann  Brown
> Stephanie Brown
> Michael  Brown
> Joseph Bruchac
> Sharon Bryan
> Christopher Buckley
> Alexandra Hollander Budy
> Michael J. Bugeja
> Michael  Burkard
> Ralph Burns
> Stephen Burt
> Mairead Byrne
> Reggie Cabico
> Peter Campion
> Rafael  Campo
> Nick Carbo
> William Carpenter
> Jim  Carrol
> Michael  Casey
> Cyrus Cassells
> Turner Cassity
> Ana Castillo
> Grace Cavalieri
> Richard  Cecil
> James Cervantes
> Lorna Dee Cervantes
> Victoria Chang
> Fred Chappell
> Maxine Chernoff
> Kelly Cherry
> Richard  Chess
> Dan Chiasson
> Justin Chin
> Marilyn Chin
> Michael  Chitwood
> Nicholas Christopher
> Sandra Cisneros
> David Citino
> Tom Clark
> Killarny Clary
> David Clewell
> Lucille Clifton
> Joshua Clover
> Judith Ortiz Cofer
> Henri Cole
> Norma Cole
> Wanda Coleman
> Michael  Collier
> Billy Collins
> Martha Collins
> Michael  Collins
> Gillian Connelly
> C.A. Conrad
> Carol Conroy
> Peter Cooley
> Clark Coolidge
> William Corbett
> Robert Cording
> Andre Cordrescu
> Alfred Corn
> Sam Cornish
> Jayne Cortez
> Mark Cox
> Steve Cramer =0
> ADouglas Crase
> Morri Creech
> Barbara Crooker
> Victor Hernandez Cruz
> Philip Dacey
> Beverly Dahlen
> Steve Dalichinsky
> Catherine Daly
> Robert Dana
> Jim Daniels
> Kate Daniels
> Gayle Danley
> Tina Darragh
> Michael Davidson
> Jordan Davis
> William Virgil Davis
> Peter Davison
> Cort Day
> Madeline Defrees
> Richard  Deming
> Chard DeNiord
> Carl Dennis
> Theodore Deppe
> Diana Der-Hovanesian
> Toi Derricotte
> Deborah Digges
> Linh Dihn
> Ray DiPalma
> W. S. DiPiero
> Diane DiPrima
> Stuart Dischell
> Gregory Djanikian
> Stephen Dobyns
> Wayne Dodd
> Sharon Dolin
> Joe Donahue
> Matthew Donovan
> Stacy Doris
> Mark Doty
> Rita Dove
> Sharon Dubiago
> Norman Dubie
> Joseph Duemer
> Denise Duhamel
> Stephen Dunn
> Rachel Blau Duplessis
> Marcella Durand
> Cornelius Eady
> Gerald Early
> George Economu
> Russell Edson
> W. D. Ehrhart
> Thomas Sayers Ellis
> Lynn Emanual
> Claudia Emerson
> Anita Endrezze
> Elaine Equi
> Louise Erdrich
> Clayton Eshleman
> Martin Espada
> Peter Everwine
> Kathy Fagan
> B. H. Fairchild
> Patricia Fargnoli
> Andrew Feld
> Irving Feldman
> Beth Ann Fennelly
> Lawrence Ferlinghetti
> David Ferry
> Edward Field
> Annie Finch
> Gary  Fincke
> Donald Finkel
> Susan Firer
> Charles Fishman
> Nick Flynn
> Richard  Foerester
> Jack Foley
> Carolyn Forche
> Ed Foster
> Sesshu Foster
> Graham Foust
> Hugh Fox
> Jan Freeman
> Stuart Freibert
> Daisy Fried
> Benjamin Friedlander
> Alice Friman
> Carol Frost
> Richard  Frost
> Alice Fulton
> Al
> ison Funk
> Erica Funkhouser
> Jonathan Galassi
> Tess Gallagher
> James Galvin
> Brendan Galvin
> Forrest Gander
> Peter Ganick
> Max Garland
> Deborah Garrison
> Frank X. Gaspar
> Geoffrey Gatza
> Dan Gerber
> Amy Gerstler
> Reginald Gibbons
> Robert Gibbs
> Margaret Gibson
> Jack Gilbert
> Sandra M. Gilbert
> Gary  Gildner
> Maria Maziotti Gillan
> Dana Gioia
> Niki Giovanni
> C.S. Giscombe
> Michael  Gizzi
> Peter Gizzi
> Diane Glancy
> Elton Glaser
> Greg Glazner
> Chris Glomski
> Louise  Gl?ck
> John Godfrey
> Douglas Goetsche
> Albert Goldbarth
> Kenneth Goldsmith
> Beckian Fritz Goldberg
> Lorrie Goldensohn
> Ray Gonzalez
> Rigoberto Gonz?lez
> Sarah Gorham
> Michael Gottlieb
> Henry Gould
> David Graham
> Jorie Graham
> Judy Grahn
> Jeffrey Greene
> Richard  Greenfield
> Ted Greenwald
> Deborah Greger
> Linda  Gregerson
> Linda  Gregg
> Robert Grenier
> Emily Grosholz
> Alan Grosman
> Bob Grumman
> Gabriel Gudding
> R.S. Gwynn
> Marilyn Hacker
> Rachel Hadas
> Jessica Hagedorn
> Kimiko Hahn
> Susan Hahn
> John Haines
> Daniel Hall
> Donald Hall
> James Baker  Hall
> Mark Halliday
> Mark Halperin
> Daniel Halpern
> Barbara Hamby
> Forrest Hamer
> Sam Hamill
> C.G. Hanzlicek
> Joy Harjo
> William Harmon
> Michael S. Harper
> Jeffrey Harrison
> Jim Harrison
> Carla Harryman
> Mathea Harvey
> Lola Haskins
> Robert Hass
> William Hathaway
> James Haug
> Brooks Haxton
> Terrance Hayes
> Samuel Hazo
> Michael Heffernan
> Lyn Hejinian
> Michael20Heller
> Barbara Hemming
> Brian Henry
> Juan Felipe Herrera
> Robert Hershon
> William Heyen
> Bob Hicok
> Conrad Hilbery
> John Hildebidle
> Brenda Hillman
> Edward Hirsch
> Jack Hirschman
> Jane  Hirshfield
> H. L. Hix
> Tony Hoagland
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> k
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> _______________________________________________
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Jason Quackenbush
jfq at myuw.net







From jjeffreymail at yahoo.com  Mon Oct  6 21:17:19 2008
From: jjeffreymail at yahoo.com (John Jeffrey)
Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2008 18:17:19 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [New-Poetry] The List
Message-ID: <494728.81272.qm@web54102.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

3000?  I'm not sure what you mean by "actively engaged in the art," but if it means writing, reading, publishing (or at least trying to publish) poetry, then I'd say we're talking at least 100,000.  Maybe even twice that.

John Jeffrey





----- Original Message ----
From: "jforjames at aol.com" <jforjames at aol.com>
To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
Sent: Monday, October 6, 2008 5:54:08 PM
Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] The List

Given that I had 950 names on that first cut, and several listers have noted the omissions are many, I wonder
what the universe of living USAmerican poets is? Limiting it those poets who are actively engaged in the art,
whether publishing regularly or not, 3000 would be my guess. 

Floyd Skloot was the only name on your list that I could definitely say I recognized. 
Finnegan

-----Original Message-----
From: David Graham <grahamd at ripon.edu>
Sent: Mon, 6 Oct 2008 9:57 am
Subject: [New-Poetry] The List



Erika Meitner
Adrian Metejka
Matthew Dickman
Ashley Capps
Kelle Groom 
Danielle Pafunda
Jennifer L. Knox
Sean Norton
Jonah Winter
Adrian Blevins
Julianna Baggott
James Armstrong
Catherine Pierce
Paul Guest
Elizabeth Hadaway
Floyd Skloot

Some of the poets listed have had long, multi-book careers already, and none are published by truly obscure presses, incidentally.

Just curious:  how many poets on the above list are on *your* radar currently?  

And even more curious:  name a few "new" ones from your own reading, why don't you?












========================================
David Graham
grahamd at ripon.edu

Home Page:
http://web.mac.com/drjazz

Poetry Library:
http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html
==========================================



= 
_______________________________________________
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New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
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________________________________
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From AlMaginnes at aol.com  Mon Oct  6 21:29:37 2008
From: AlMaginnes at aol.com (AlMaginnes at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2008 21:29:37 EDT
Subject: [New-Poetry] The List
Message-ID: <d20.3c245640.361c1581@aol.com>

A couple of others:
 
Stephen Corey
Jim Peterson
Joseph Millar
Judy Jordan
Diann Blakely
Cathy Smith Bowers
Rebecca McClanahan
 
And lest we forget, a former President named Jimmy Carter wrote a book of  
poems that wasn't entirely bad.
 



**************New MapQuest Local shows what's happening at your destination.  
Dining, Movies, Events, News & more. Try it out!      
(http://local.mapquest.com/?ncid=emlcntnew00000001)
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From r_loden at sbcglobal.net  Tue Oct  7 06:19:52 2008
From: r_loden at sbcglobal.net (Rachel Loden)
Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2008 03:19:52 -0700
Subject: [New-Poetry] Paavo Haavikko (1931-2008)
Message-ID: <00ae01c92866$3d0a9a10$220110ac@GLASSCASTLE>

Life being short, poverty and wealth
      are final verdicts, in that
 poverty and life are of equal duration
      and wealth and cold indifference
are perennial and hereditary, like diseases.

    (from /May, Eternal/, 1988, tr. by Anselm Hollo) 


And, briefly:
The old part (1754-1762) is known as
The Winter Palace.
Accordingly everything,
Floor, ceiling, walls
Is covered with these exalted beings:
Venus, Jupiter, many ladies
Of a full-bodied vintage.
You can still see how many a man
Lost head and hat
By the Berezhina River,
You can see that Borodino
Was a victory;


Of such
I'm talking, here,
Under the roof
Thatched by my hair.

    (from /The Winter Palace/, 1959, tr. by Anselm Hollo)

http://wordstrumpet.blogspot.com/




From anny.ballardini at gmail.com  Tue Oct  7 09:07:49 2008
From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2008 15:07:49 +0200
Subject: [New-Poetry] world finances
Message-ID: <4b65c2d70810070607w1342d784s4e323c57c36b2703@mail.gmail.com>

Floyd Norris on The New York Times gives an outlook on the European pride:
(video)
http://video.on.nytimes.com/?fr_story=732081beb93b6b8ad6b8e938168d46a538878cfc


-- 
Anny Ballardini
http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html
I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing
star!
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From cervantes.james at gmail.com  Tue Oct  7 11:04:35 2008
From: cervantes.james at gmail.com (James Cervantes)
Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2008 08:04:35 -0700
Subject: [New-Poetry] This week's featured poet on "Linebreak"
Message-ID: <648208b60810070804t2bd16cdka1a439ef52a15718@mail.gmail.com>

Yours truly, beginning Tuesday, at

http://linebreak.org/


- Jim

"Whatever gets you through the night, babe." - Frank Sinatra
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org
http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning
http://www.fieralingue.it/documenti/mr_bondo.pdf
http://www.poetserv.org/jvc/home/index.html
http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamescervantes/
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From editor at pavementsaw.org  Tue Oct  7 14:37:22 2008
From: editor at pavementsaw.org (David Baratier)
Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2008 11:37:22 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [New-Poetry] He's a barbie doll and he likes sex
In-Reply-To: <200810071600.m97G03nJ016904@wiz.cath.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <134626.16243.qm@web45601.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>

I'm not on any of the lists either, do I win something?


Be well

David Baratier, Editor

Pavement Saw Press
321 Empire Street
Montpelier OH 43543
http://pavementsaw.org

Subscribe to our e-mail listserv at
http://pavementsaw.org/list/?p=subscribe&id=1




      



From grahamd at ripon.edu  Tue Oct  7 15:01:16 2008
From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham)
Date: Tue, 07 Oct 2008 14:01:16 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Carruth on Originality
In-Reply-To: <134626.16243.qm@web45601.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <C5111C2C.302B%grahamd@ripon.edu>


Late Sonnet
 
For that the sonnet no doubt was my own true
singing and suchlike other song, for that
I gave it up half-coldheartedly to set
my lines in a fashion that proclaimed its virtue
original in young arrogant artificers who
had not my geniality nor voice, and yet
their fashionableness was persuasive to me,--what
shame and sorrow I pay!
                                              And that I knew
that beautiful hot old man Sidney Bechet
and heard his music often but not what he
was saying, that tone, phrasing, and free play
of feeling mean more than originality,
these being the actual qualities of song.
Nor is it essential to be young.
 
--Hayden Carruth.  Brothers, I Loved You All:  Poems 1969-1977.  Sheep
Meadow Press, 1978.



====================================================
David Graham
grahamd at ripon.edu
Home Page:
http://web.mac.com/drjazz/

Poetry Library:
http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html
====================================================



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From jforjames at aol.com  Tue Oct  7 15:04:56 2008
From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 07 Oct 2008 15:04:56 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] The List
In-Reply-To: <494728.81272.qm@web54102.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <494728.81272.qm@web54102.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <8CAF6C6B6854060-4F8-67F@WEBMAIL-MA20.sysops.aol.com>

It's hard to stake out hard & fast?criteria for a?comprehensive list. If the true number of?poets is 100,000, 
then such a list is beyond my ability to compile. And keeping it updated would be a major undertaking.
?
Just to give a background on how I put together the first 950 names: 
First, for no reason than general obssessiveness, one day I started to try to list every contemporary living poet
I could think of. This went on in earnest for about a week until I'd exhasted my memory bank.

Then, fitfully, for about three years I recorded other poet?names that I would suddenly recall, or?see on the web
somewhere in transit, or encounter in print media.

As poets would die, I coldly coded them 'x' for deceased. (Reginald Shepherd and Hayden Carruth got tagged
that way recently, I'm afraid.) Since the list contains many obscure poets, poets whose?obits won't get beyond
their local newspaper, it's not going to be easy to keep the living sorted from the dead. 

So eventually?I might give up the coding of the dead, put them all back into the list, and make it an idiosyncratic listing 
of all poets who?were ?'visible' to one person?(or made visible with help of others, like NewPoetry members) who lived 
during a paticular period of time.

I don't know if this is could be?a Wiki type project or not. The only real joy I get from the list is when adding or updating
?the list, I'll often run across the name of poet who haven't thought about in sometime or who is only vaguely familiar to me, 
and that provokes me to to try to find a?poem or two he/she has written.

Finnegan


-----Original Message-----
From: John Jeffrey <jjeffreymail at yahoo.com>
Sent: Mon, 6 Oct 2008 9:17 pm
Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] The List




3000?? I'm not sure what you mean by "actively engaged in the art," but if it means writing, reading, publishing (or at least trying to publish) poetry, then I'd say we're talking at least 100,000.? Maybe even twice that.

John Jeffrey






----- Original Message ----
From: "jforjames at aol.com" <jforjames at aol.com>
To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
Sent: Monday, October 6, 2008 5:54:08 PM
Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] The List

Given that I had 950 names on that first cut, and several?listers?have?noted the omissions are many, I wonder
what the universe of living USAmerican poets is? Limiting it those poets who are actively engaged in the art,
whether publishing regularly or not, 3000 would be my guess. 

Floyd Skloot was the only name on your list that I could definitely say I recognized. 
Finnegan

-----Original Message-----
From: David Graham <grahamd at ripon.edu>
Sent: Mon, 6 Oct 2008 9:57 am
Subject: [New-Poetry] The List






Erika Meitner

Adrian Metejka

Matthew Dickman

Ashley Capps

Kelle Groom?

Danielle Pafunda

Jennifer L. Knox

Sean Norton

Jonah Winter

Adrian Blevins

Julianna Baggott

James Armstrong

Catherine Pierce

Paul Guest

Elizabeth Hadaway

Floyd Skloot




Some of the poets listed have had long, multi-book careers already, and none are published by truly obscure presses, incidentally.




Just curious: ?how many poets on the above list are on *your* radar currently? ?




And even more curious: ?name a few "new" ones from your own reading, why don't you?


























========================================

David Graham

grahamd at ripon.edu




Home Page:

http://web.mac.com/drjazz




Poetry Library:

http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html

==========================================








= 


_______________________________________________
New-Poetry mailing list
New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry



McCain or Obama? Stay updated on coverage of the Presidential race while you browse - Download Now! 







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From cervantes.james at gmail.com  Tue Oct  7 15:06:45 2008
From: cervantes.james at gmail.com (James Cervantes)
Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2008 12:06:45 -0700
Subject: [New-Poetry] He's a barbie doll and he likes sex
In-Reply-To: <134626.16243.qm@web45601.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
References: <200810071600.m97G03nJ016904@wiz.cath.vt.edu>
	<134626.16243.qm@web45601.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <648208b60810071206r7b33b5bal33668957f7bf6ca6@mail.gmail.com>

You deserve something for that subject line.
- Jim

On Tue, Oct 7, 2008 at 11:37 AM, David Baratier <editor at pavementsaw.org>wrote:

> I'm not on any of the lists either, do I win something?
>
>
> Be well
>
> David Baratier, Editor
>
> Pavement Saw Press
> 321 Empire Street
> Montpelier OH 43543
> http://pavementsaw.org
>
> Subscribe to our e-mail listserv at
> http://pavementsaw.org/list/?p=subscribe&id=1
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>



-- 
"Whatever gets you through the night, babe." - Frank Sinatra
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org
http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning
http://www.fieralingue.it/documenti/mr_bondo.pdf
http://www.poetserv.org/jvc/home/index.html
http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamescervantes/
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From anny.ballardini at gmail.com  Tue Oct  7 16:52:34 2008
From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2008 22:52:34 +0200
Subject: [New-Poetry] The List
In-Reply-To: <8CAF6C6B6854060-4F8-67F@WEBMAIL-MA20.sysops.aol.com>
References: <494728.81272.qm@web54102.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
	<8CAF6C6B6854060-4F8-67F@WEBMAIL-MA20.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <4b65c2d70810071352s70d2a483la6b449351efb1e86@mail.gmail.com>

The number of poets you were able to gather is anyhow impressive. With
inputs you can definitely improve it. I agree with several suggestions that
were previously made on this list, [I also noticed that nobody mentioned
_me_, Just very nice of you all.]
[I will never talk to you all]
[That is why I am writing in square brackets]
[Yours truly,]
[Anny]

On Tue, Oct 7, 2008 at 9:04 PM, <jforjames at aol.com> wrote:

> It's hard to stake out hard & fast criteria for a comprehensive list. If
> the true number of poets is 100,000,
> then such a list is beyond my ability to compile. And keeping it updated
> would be a major undertaking.
>
> Just to give a background on how I put together the first 950 names:
> First, for no reason than general obssessiveness, one day I started to try
> to list every contemporary living poet
> I could think of. This went on in earnest for about a week until I'd
> exhasted my memory bank.
>
> Then, fitfully, for about three years I recorded other poet names that I
> would suddenly recall, or see on the web
> somewhere in transit, or encounter in print media.
>
> As poets would die, I coldly coded them 'x' for deceased. (Reginald
> Shepherd and Hayden Carruth got tagged
> that way recently, I'm afraid.) Since the list contains many obscure poets,
> poets whose obits won't get beyond
> their local newspaper, it's not going to be easy to keep the living sorted
> from the dead.
>
> So eventually I might give up the coding of the dead, put them all back
> into the list, and make it an idiosyncratic listing
> of all poets who were  'visible' to one person (or made visible with help
> of others, like NewPoetry members) who lived
> during a paticular period of time.
>
> I don't know if this is could be a Wiki type project or not. The only real
> joy I get from the list is when adding or updating
>  the list, I'll often run across the name of poet who haven't thought about
> in sometime or who is only vaguely familiar to me,
> and that provokes me to to try to find a poem or two he/she has written.
>
> Finnegan
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: John Jeffrey <jjeffreymail at yahoo.com>
> Sent: Mon, 6 Oct 2008 9:17 pm
> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] The List
>
>   3000?  I'm not sure what you mean by "actively engaged in the art," but
> if it means writing, reading, publishing (or at least trying to publish)
> poetry, then I'd say we're talking at least 100,000.  Maybe even twice that.
>
> John Jeffrey
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: "jforjames at aol.com" <jforjames at aol.com>
> To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> Sent: Monday, October 6, 2008 5:54:08 PM
> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] The List
>
> Given that I had 950 names on that first cut, and
> several listers have noted the omissions are many, I wonder
> what the universe of living USAmerican poets is? Limiting it those poets
> who are actively engaged in the art,
> whether publishing regularly or not, 3000 would be my guess.
>
> Floyd Skloot was the only name on your list that I could definitely say I
> recognized.
> Finnegan
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: David Graham <grahamd at ripon.edu>
> Sent: Mon, 6 Oct 2008 9:57 am
> Subject: [New-Poetry] The List
>
>  Erika Meitner
> Adrian Metejka
> Matthew Dickman
> Ashley Capps
> Kelle Groom
> Danielle Pafunda
> Jennifer L. Knox
> Sean Norton
> Jonah Winter
> Adrian Blevins
> Julianna Baggott
> James Armstrong
> Catherine Pierce
> Paul Guest
> Elizabeth Hadaway
> Floyd Skloot
>
>  Some of the poets listed have had long, multi-book careers already, and
> none are published by truly obscure presses, incidentally.
>
>  Just curious:  how many poets on the above list are on *your* radar
> currently?
>
>  And even more curious:  name a few "new" ones from your own reading, why
> don't you?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ========================================
> David Graham
> grahamd at ripon.edu
>
> Home Page:
> http://web.mac.com/drjazz
>
> Poetry Library:
> http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html
> ==========================================
>
>
>
>  =
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
>  ------------------------------
> McCain or Obama? Stay updated on coverage of the Presidential race while
> you browse - Download Now<http://toolbar.aol.com/elections/download.html?ncid=emlweusdown00000001>
> !
>
>  _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing listNew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.eduhttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
> ------------------------------
> McCain or Obama? Stay updated on coverage of the Presidential race while
> you browse - Download Now<http://toolbar.aol.com/elections/download.html?ncid=emlweusdown00000001>
> !
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
>


-- 
Anny Ballardini
http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html
I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing
star!
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From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net  Tue Oct  7 19:03:39 2008
From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman)
Date: Tue, 07 Oct 2008 18:03:39 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] The List
In-Reply-To: <4b65c2d70810071352s70d2a483la6b449351efb1e86@mail.gmail.com>
References: <494728.81272.qm@web54102.mail.re2.yahoo.com><8CAF6C6B6854060-4F8-67F@WEBMAIL-MA20.sysops.aol.com>
	<4b65c2d70810071352s70d2a483la6b449351efb1e86@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <48EBEACB.3030605@nut-n-but.net>

Ah, none of us can spel yor last name, Anie.

--Bob




From ATambellini01 at aol.com  Tue Oct  7 18:21:32 2008
From: ATambellini01 at aol.com (ATambellini01 at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2008 18:21:32 EDT
Subject: [New-Poetry] The List
Message-ID: <cfa.447026a7.361d3aec@aol.com>

anny 
got confused on the part "American" if someone would define "American"  maybe 
we would understand why some of us with vowels in our last names have been  
left out,...but maybe we ought to compile a List of Left Out from the List  
Poets........
aldo



**************New MapQuest Local shows what's happening at your destination.  
Dining, Movies, Events, News & more. Try it out!      
(http://local.mapquest.com/?ncid=emlcntnew00000001)
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From Opus40-01 at opus40.org  Tue Oct  7 22:39:33 2008
From: Opus40-01 at opus40.org (TheOldMole)
Date: Tue, 07 Oct 2008 22:39:33 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] American Literature, Insularity and Ignorance
Message-ID: <48EC1D65.3050401@opus40.org>

The Nobel <http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/nobelprize> prospects of 
Philip Roth and Joyce Carol Oates may have been dashed after the prize's 
top jury member described American writing as insular and ignorant.

Permanent secretary of the Swedish Academy Horace Engdahl told the 
Associated Press that US writers were "too sensitive to trends in their 
own mass culture", which he said dragged down the quality of their work. 
"The US is too isolated, too insular. They don't translate enough and 
don't really participate in the big dialogue of literature," Engdahl 
said. "That ignorance is restraining."

-- 
Tad Richards
http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/
http://opusforty.blogspot.com/

Don't forget to order your copy of FILM NOIR!
http://stores.lulu.com/store.php?fAcctID=2712239



From editor at pavementsaw.org  Wed Oct  8 00:01:14 2008
From: editor at pavementsaw.org (David Baratier)
Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2008 21:01:14 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [New-Poetry] want to collaborate?
Message-ID: <711654.74488.qm@web45602.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>

Even though I am not famous I do get a mention on Ron's blog today

http://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/


On this topic, I am looking a person to collaborate poems with 
if any are game. I do not believe in taking credit
for lines, sections or phrases but the process does
end up in university libraries for others
to examine and write dissertations on.

Be well

David Baratier, Editor

Pavement Saw Press
321 Empire Street
Montpelier OH 43543
http://pavementsaw.org

Subscribe to our e-mail listserv at
http://pavementsaw.org/list/?p=subscribe&id=1


      



From editor at pavementsaw.org  Wed Oct  8 00:06:29 2008
From: editor at pavementsaw.org (David Baratier)
Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2008 21:06:29 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [New-Poetry] He's a barbie doll and he likes sex
In-Reply-To: <648208b60810071206r7b33b5bal33668957f7bf6ca6@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <815247.28999.qm@web45609.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>

How about a gender bending collectable?

Be well

David Baratier, Editor

Pavement Saw Press
321 Empire Street
Montpelier OH 43543
http://pavementsaw.org

Subscribe to our e-mail listserv at
http://pavementsaw.org/list/?p=subscribe&id=1


--- On Tue, 10/7/08, James Cervantes <cervantes.james at gmail.com> wrote:

> From: James Cervantes <cervantes.james at gmail.com>

> You deserve something for that subject line.
> - Jim
> 
> On Tue, Oct 7, 2008 at 11:37 AM, David Baratier
> <editor at pavementsaw.org>wrote:
> 
> > I'm not on any of the lists either, do I win
> something?
> >



      



From anny.ballardini at gmail.com  Wed Oct  8 01:42:17 2008
From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2008 07:42:17 +0200
Subject: [New-Poetry] The List
In-Reply-To: <cfa.447026a7.361d3aec@aol.com>
References: <cfa.447026a7.361d3aec@aol.com>
Message-ID: <4b65c2d70810072242sbef3e45ja89afb5abcb122d8@mail.gmail.com>

:-)
This is anyhow and has always been my favorite list. I really should change
my name into Ballard (so watch out for the Ballard's in the future...), I
would dig down to the origin and leave out all those ringing bells of ini
ini ini, like in Tambellini, Bertolini, Ceccolini, they are all 'ini' round
here [diminutive form for adjectives, also sometimes used as a pet name] !

You GreenMan, you are the worst, anyhow, it does not matter what you say or
how you spell it.

On Wed, Oct 8, 2008 at 12:21 AM, <ATambellini01 at aol.com> wrote:

>  anny
> got confused on the part "American" if someone would define "American"
> maybe we would understand why some of us with vowels in our last names have
> been left out,...but maybe we ought to compile a List of Left Out from the
> List Poets........
> aldo
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
> New *MapQuest Local* shows what's happening at your destination. Dining,
> Movies, Events, News & more. Try it out<http://local.mapquest.com/?ncid=emlcntnew00000001>
> !
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
>


-- 
Anny Ballardini
http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html
I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing
star!
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From anny.ballardini at gmail.com  Wed Oct  8 01:46:01 2008
From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2008 07:46:01 +0200
Subject: [New-Poetry] want to collaborate?
In-Reply-To: <711654.74488.qm@web45602.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
References: <711654.74488.qm@web45602.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4b65c2d70810072246p42d53d15h52e45c6ff4e299ac@mail.gmail.com>

David,
I am also among those pages, and with pain. kari edwards invited me there.
It is really painful, every time that anthology shows up.

Anny

On Wed, Oct 8, 2008 at 6:01 AM, David Baratier <editor at pavementsaw.org>wrote:

> Even though I am not famous I do get a mention on Ron's blog today
>
> http://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/
>
>
> On this topic, I am looking a person to collaborate poems with
> if any are game. I do not believe in taking credit
> for lines, sections or phrases but the process does
> end up in university libraries for others
> to examine and write dissertations on.
>
> Be well
>
> David Baratier, Editor
>
> Pavement Saw Press
> 321 Empire Street
> Montpelier OH 43543
> http://pavementsaw.org
>
> Subscribe to our e-mail listserv at
> http://pavementsaw.org/list/?p=subscribe&id=1
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>



-- 
Anny Ballardini
http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html
I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing
star!
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From editor at pavementsaw.org  Wed Oct  8 09:12:10 2008
From: editor at pavementsaw.org (David Baratier)
Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2008 06:12:10 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [New-Poetry] want to collaborate?
In-Reply-To: <4b65c2d70810072246p42d53d15h52e45c6ff4e299ac@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <288549.46881.qm@web45608.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>

Anny--

yr not alone, that was the last collaboration my friend George Kalamaras did with Mary Rising Higgins before she passed--

Be well

David Baratier, Editor

Pavement Saw Press
321 Empire Street
Montpelier OH 43543
http://pavementsaw.org

Subscribe to our e-mail listserv at
http://pavementsaw.org/list/?p=subscribe&id=1


--- On Wed, 10/8/08, Anny Ballardini <anny.ballardini at gmail.com> wrote:

> From: Anny Ballardini <anny.ballardini at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] want to collaborate?
> To: editor at pavementsaw.org, "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &, Views" <new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
> Date: Wednesday, October 8, 2008, 5:46 AM
> David,
> I am also among those pages, and with pain. kari edwards
> invited me there.
> It is really painful, every time that anthology shows up.
> 
> Anny
> 
> On Wed, Oct 8, 2008 at 6:01 AM, David Baratier
> <editor at pavementsaw.org>wrote:
> 
> > Even though I am not famous I do get a mention on
> Ron's blog today
> >
> > http://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/
> >
> >
> > On this topic, I am looking a person to collaborate
> poems with
> > if any are game. I do not believe in taking credit
> > for lines, sections or phrases but the process does
> > end up in university libraries for others
> > to examine and write dissertations on.
> >
> > Be well
> >
> > David Baratier, Editor
> >
> > Pavement Saw Press
> > 321 Empire Street
> > Montpelier OH 43543
> > http://pavementsaw.org
> >
> > Subscribe to our e-mail listserv at
> > http://pavementsaw.org/list/?p=subscribe&id=1
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > New-Poetry mailing list
> > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
> >
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Anny Ballardini
> http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
> http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
> http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html
> I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth
> to a dancing
> star!


      



From Opus40-01 at opus40.org  Wed Oct  8 12:44:22 2008
From: Opus40-01 at opus40.org (TheOldMole)
Date: Wed, 08 Oct 2008 12:44:22 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] Poems by others: George Gascoigne
Message-ID: <48ECE366.8070001@opus40.org>

 From /The Green Knight's Farewell to Fancy/:

   A fansie fedde me ones, to wryte in verse and rime,
To wray my griefe, to crave reward, to cover still my crime:
To frame a long discourse, on slurring of a strawe,
To rumble rime in raffe and ruffe, yet all not worth an hawe:
To heare it sayde there goeth, the /Man that writes so well,/
But since I see, what Poetes bee, /Fansie/ (quoth he) /farewell./

-- 
Tad Richards
http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/
http://opusforty.blogspot.com/

Don't forget to order your copy of FILM NOIR!
http://stores.lulu.com/store.php?fAcctID=2712239



From cervantes.james at gmail.com  Wed Oct  8 13:11:12 2008
From: cervantes.james at gmail.com (James Cervantes)
Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2008 10:11:12 -0700
Subject: [New-Poetry] Poems by others: George Gascoigne
In-Reply-To: <48ECE366.8070001@opus40.org>
References: <48ECE366.8070001@opus40.org>
Message-ID: <648208b60810081011u112698ddteccbdfdf87d1e591@mail.gmail.com>

I read it as George Gasoline, he of unleaded spelling.
- Jim

On Wed, Oct 8, 2008 at 9:44 AM, TheOldMole <Opus40-01 at opus40.org> wrote:

> From /The Green Knight's Farewell to Fancy/:
>
>  A fansie fedde me ones, to wryte in verse and rime,
> To wray my griefe, to crave reward, to cover still my crime:
> To frame a long discourse, on slurring of a strawe,
> To rumble rime in raffe and ruffe, yet all not worth an hawe:
> To heare it sayde there goeth, the /Man that writes so well,/
> But since I see, what Poetes bee, /Fansie/ (quoth he) /farewell./
>
> --
> Tad Richards
> http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/
> http://opusforty.blogspot.com/
>
> Don't forget to order your copy of FILM NOIR!
> http://stores.lulu.com/store.php?fAcctID=2712239
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>



-- 
"Whatever gets you through the night, babe." - Frank Sinatra
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org
http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning
http://www.fieralingue.it/documenti/mr_bondo.pdf
http://www.poetserv.org/jvc/home/index.html
http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamescervantes/
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From anny.ballardini at gmail.com  Wed Oct  8 15:54:28 2008
From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2008 21:54:28 +0200
Subject: [New-Poetry] choral music
Message-ID: <4b65c2d70810081254n77deae0bnb9188f8a8b5b4e82@mail.gmail.com>

I think the Old Mole might be interested in this link, hopefully someone
else will be as well (don't get trapped by the ads at the beginning):
http://www.origenmusic.com/


-- 
Anny Ballardini
http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html
I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing
star!
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From c288 at hotmail.com  Wed Oct  8 17:11:50 2008
From: c288 at hotmail.com (c288 at hotmail.com)
Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2008 14:11:50 -0700
Subject: [New-Poetry] Writers Almanac for October 8
In-Reply-To: <4b65c2d70810081254n77deae0bnb9188f8a8b5b4e82@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4b65c2d70810081254n77deae0bnb9188f8a8b5b4e82@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BLU114-W30623944D65842C91B62D69E3B0@phx.gbl>



 
Adding It Up
by Philip Booth
My mind's eye opens beforethe light gets up. Ilie awake in the small dark,figuring payments, or howto scrape paint; I countrich women I didn't marry.I measure bicycle milesI pedaled last Thursdayto take off weight; I give somepassing thought to the pointthat if I hadn't turned poetI might well be some othersort of accountant. Beforethe sun reports its own weathermy mind is openly at it:I chart my annual rainfall.or how I'll plant seed ifI live to be fifty. I look upwords like "bilateral symmetry"in my mind's dictionary; I considerthe bivalve molluse, re-picklast summer's mussels on Condon Point,preview the next red tide, andhold my breath: I listen hardto how my heart valves are doing.I try not to get goingtoo early: bladder permitting,I mean to stay in bed until six;I think in spirals, buildinghorizon pyramids, yielding tono man's flag but my own.I think of Saul Steinberg:I play touch football on one leg,I seesaw on the old cliff, trying to balance things out: job,wife, children, myself.My mind's eye opens beforemy body is ready for itsfirst duty: cleaning up afteran old-maid Basset in heat.That, too, I inventory:the Puritan strain will out,even at six a.m.; sun or no sun,I'm Puritan to the bone, down tothe marrow and then some:if I'm not sorry I worry,if I can't worry I count. 
 
"Adding It Up" by Philip Booth from Lifelines: Selected Poems 1950-1999. ? Viking Penguin, 2000. Reprinted with permission.  
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From c288 at hotmail.com  Wed Oct  8 17:14:21 2008
From: c288 at hotmail.com (c288 at hotmail.com)
Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2008 14:14:21 -0700
Subject: [New-Poetry] Writers Almanac for October 8
In-Reply-To: <BLU114-W30623944D65842C91B62D69E3B0@phx.gbl>
References: <4b65c2d70810081254n77deae0bnb9188f8a8b5b4e82@mail.gmail.com>
	<BLU114-W30623944D65842C91B62D69E3B0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <BLU114-W102F1DDB05713F7669687D9E3B0@phx.gbl>


Skip do you look up "bilateral symmetry"?
 
Charmaine
 
 


 

From: c288 at hotmail.comTo: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.eduSubject: RE: [New-Poetry] Writers Almanac for October 8Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2008 14:11:50 -0700



 
Adding It Up
by Philip Booth
My mind's eye opens beforethe light gets up. Ilie awake in the small dark,figuring payments, or howto scrape paint; I countrich women I didn't marry.I measure bicycle milesI pedaled last Thursdayto take off weight; I give somepassing thought to the pointthat if I hadn't turned poetI might well be some othersort of accountant. Beforethe sun reports its own weathermy mind is openly at it:I chart my annual rainfall.or how I'll plant seed ifI live to be fifty. I look upwords like "bilateral symmetry"in my mind's dictionary; I considerthe bivalve molluse, re-picklast summer's mussels on Condon Point,preview the next red tide, andhold my breath: I listen hardto how my heart valves are doing.I try not to get goingtoo early: bladder permitting,I mean to stay in bed until six;I think in spirals, buildinghorizon pyramids, yielding tono man's flag but my own.I think of Saul Steinberg:I play touch football on one leg,I seesaw on the old cliff, trying to balance things out: job,wife, children, myself.My mind's eye opens beforemy body is ready for itsfirst duty: cleaning up afteran old-maid Basset in heat.That, too, I inventory:the Puritan strain will out,even at six a.m.; sun or no sun,I'm Puritan to the bone, down tothe marrow and then some:if I'm not sorry I worry,if I can't worry I count. 
 
"Adding It Up" by Philip Booth from Lifelines: Selected Poems 1950-1999. ? Viking Penguin, 2000. Reprinted with permission.  
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From Opus40-01 at opus40.org  Wed Oct  8 20:20:31 2008
From: Opus40-01 at opus40.org (TheOldMole)
Date: Wed, 08 Oct 2008 20:20:31 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] choral music
In-Reply-To: <4b65c2d70810081254n77deae0bnb9188f8a8b5b4e82@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4b65c2d70810081254n77deae0bnb9188f8a8b5b4e82@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <48ED4E4F.9070906@opus40.org>

Russian church music? It is interesting...but why me?

Anny Ballardini wrote:
> I think the Old Mole might be interested in this link, hopefully 
> someone else will be as well (don't get trapped by the ads at the 
> beginning):
> http://www.origenmusic.com/
>
>
> -- 
> Anny Ballardini
> http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
> http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
> http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html
> I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a 
> dancing star!
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>   

-- 
Tad Richards
http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/
http://opusforty.blogspot.com/

Don't forget to order your copy of FILM NOIR!
http://stores.lulu.com/store.php?fAcctID=2712239



From anny.ballardini at gmail.com  Thu Oct  9 00:35:51 2008
From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2008 06:35:51 +0200
Subject: [New-Poetry] choral music
In-Reply-To: <48ED4E4F.9070906@opus40.org>
References: <4b65c2d70810081254n77deae0bnb9188f8a8b5b4e82@mail.gmail.com>
	<48ED4E4F.9070906@opus40.org>
Message-ID: <4b65c2d70810082135r31f2717dj8efe0f25fde40dc0@mail.gmail.com>

You were the one who liked beethoven.com and the other links I sent in, if I
remember right.

On Thu, Oct 9, 2008 at 2:20 AM, TheOldMole <Opus40-01 at opus40.org> wrote:

> Russian church music? It is interesting...but why me?
>
> Anny Ballardini wrote:
>
>> I think the Old Mole might be interested in this link, hopefully someone
>> else will be as well (don't get trapped by the ads at the beginning):
>> http://www.origenmusic.com/
>>
>>
>> --
>> Anny Ballardini
>> http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
>> http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
>> http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html
>> I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing
>> star!
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> New-Poetry mailing list
>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>>
>>
>
> --
> Tad Richards
> http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/
> http://opusforty.blogspot.com/
>
> Don't forget to order your copy of FILM NOIR!
> http://stores.lulu.com/store.php?fAcctID=2712239
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>



-- 
Anny Ballardini
http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html
I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing
star!
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From jorgensen_a at yahoo.com  Thu Oct  9 02:37:49 2008
From: jorgensen_a at yahoo.com (Jorgensen, Alexander)
Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2008 23:37:49 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [New-Poetry] Horns: Alexander Jorgensen - 5 poems - Blackbox online
In-Reply-To: <200810041351.m94DpCnK002363@wiz.cath.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <474110.5451.qm@web50509.mail.re2.yahoo.com>


http://www.williamjamesaustin.com/five.html
?
I invite you to?take a peak at these new pieces appearing at Blackbox.?
?
Please enjoy!?
Alexander Jorgensen

?
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From anny.ballardini at gmail.com  Thu Oct  9 05:09:44 2008
From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2008 11:09:44 +0200
Subject: [New-Poetry] Horns: Alexander Jorgensen - 5 poems - Blackbox
	online
In-Reply-To: <474110.5451.qm@web50509.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <200810041351.m94DpCnK002363@wiz.cath.vt.edu>
	<474110.5451.qm@web50509.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4b65c2d70810090209r1005ab78j78e9b7137670d628@mail.gmail.com>

Chirot? I am one of his supporters. And I think he deserves much more than
what he has received.

On Thu, Oct 9, 2008 at 8:37 AM, Jorgensen, Alexander
<jorgensen_a at yahoo.com>wrote:

> http://www.williamjamesaustin.com/five.html
>
> I invite you to take a peak at these new pieces appearing at Blackbox.
>
> Please enjoy!
> Alexander Jorgensen
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
>


-- 
Anny Ballardini
http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html
I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing
star!
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From jforjames at aol.com  Thu Oct  9 09:45:58 2008
From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 09 Oct 2008 09:45:58 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] Nobel in Lit to France's Le Clezio 
Message-ID: <8CAF82C7EAA7577-DA4-ADD@WEBMAIL-DG01.sim.aol.com>

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/10/09/AR2008100900243.html?hpid=topnews
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From anny.ballardini at gmail.com  Thu Oct  9 10:37:27 2008
From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2008 16:37:27 +0200
Subject: [New-Poetry] Nobel in Lit to France's Le Clezio
In-Reply-To: <8CAF82C7EAA7577-DA4-ADD@WEBMAIL-DG01.sim.aol.com>
References: <8CAF82C7EAA7577-DA4-ADD@WEBMAIL-DG01.sim.aol.com>
Message-ID: <4b65c2d70810090737n70c67449g7d3c878edf64cb11@mail.gmail.com>

Lucky Le Clezio!

2008/10/9 <jforjames at aol.com>

>
> http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/10/09/AR2008100900243.html?hpid=topnews
> ------------------------------
> McCain or Obama? Stay updated on coverage of the Presidential race while
> you browse - Download Now<http://toolbar.aol.com/elections/download.html?ncid=emlweusdown00000001>
> !
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
>


-- 
Anny Ballardini
http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html
I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing
star!
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From jforjames at aol.com  Thu Oct  9 13:15:09 2008
From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 09 Oct 2008 13:15:09 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] Fables of the Self
Message-ID: <8CAF849B77CB5C7-9A0-19FB@webmail-dd09.sysops.aol.com>


http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/10/08/DDVD12I1LF.DTL

Fables of the Self
Studies in Lyric Poetry
By Rosanna Warren
Norton; 343 pages; $27.95

As a literary critic, Rosanna Warren likes to be coy. Or so it seems from her "Fables of the Self: Studies in Lyric Poetry," a book of essays that the author - also a classics scholar, translator and an award-winning poet - calls an "occult autobiography," although it reveals little about her. 


That's because "Fables" is intended to flout prevailing notions of the memoir - namely, the disclosure of gossipy details about the author's life. In the preface, Warren - who is the daughter of "All the King's Men" novelist Robert Penn Warren and his wife, novelist Eleanor Clark - teases readers by referring to her famous parents, but then she declines to give details to let us know them, or her, in any depth.

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From jforjames at aol.com  Thu Oct  9 13:34:50 2008
From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 09 Oct 2008 13:34:50 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] Goldbarth and Hoberman Win Major Prizes
Message-ID: <8CAF84C773D8D91-974-B3@webmail-dd09.sysops.aol.com>


http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/albert-goldbarth-mary-ann-hoberman/story.aspx?guid=%7B6DD36C12-91E3-41B8-BE99-371D8964274D%7D&dist=hppr
Albert Goldbarth and Mary Ann Hoberman Win Major Prizes for American Poets


Last update: 11:25 a.m. EDT Oct. 8, 2008
CHICAGO, Oct 08, 2008 /PRNewswire-USNewswire via COMTEX/ -- Poetry Foundation Names Hoberman Nation's Second Children's Poet Laureate 

The Poetry Foundation has announced that Albert Goldbarth and Mary Ann Hoberman are the winners of its fifth annual Pegasus Awards. The announcement was made at a dinner ceremony last night at the Jay Pritzker Pavilion Stage at Millennium Park in Chicago. Established in 2004, the Pegasus Awards are a series of annual prizes with an emphasis on new awards to under-recognized poets and types of poetry. 
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From Opus40-01 at opus40.org  Thu Oct  9 13:48:44 2008
From: Opus40-01 at opus40.org (TheOldMole)
Date: Thu, 09 Oct 2008 13:48:44 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] Goldbarth and Hoberman Win Major Prizes
In-Reply-To: <8CAF84C773D8D91-974-B3@webmail-dd09.sysops.aol.com>
References: <8CAF84C773D8D91-974-B3@webmail-dd09.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <48EE43FC.6040602@opus40.org>

Interesting to see poets on Marketwatch.

jforjames at aol.com wrote:
> http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/albert-goldbarth-mary-ann-hoberman/story.aspx?guid=%7B6DD36C12-91E3-41B8-BE99-371D8964274D%7D&dist=hppr 
> <http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/albert-goldbarth-mary-ann-hoberman/story.aspx?guid=%7B6DD36C12-91E3-41B8-BE99-371D8964274D%7D&dist=hppr>
> Albert Goldbarth and Mary Ann Hoberman Win Major Prizes for American Poets
>
> Last update: 11:25 a.m. EDT Oct. 8, 2008
> CHICAGO, Oct 08, 2008 /PRNewswire-USNewswire via COMTEX/ -- Poetry 
> Foundation Names Hoberman Nation's Second Children's Poet Laureate
>
> The Poetry Foundation has announced that Albert Goldbarth and Mary Ann 
> Hoberman are the winners of its fifth annual Pegasus Awards. The 
> announcement was made at a dinner ceremony last night at the Jay 
> Pritzker Pavilion Stage at Millennium Park in Chicago. Established in 
> 2004, the Pegasus Awards are a series of annual prizes with an 
> emphasis on new awards to under-recognized poets and types of poetry.
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> McCain or Obama? Stay updated on coverage of the Presidential race 
> while you browse - Download Now 
> <http://toolbar.aol.com/elections/download.html?ncid=emlweusdown00000001>! 
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>   

-- 
Tad Richards
http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/
http://opusforty.blogspot.com/

Don't forget to order your copy of FILM NOIR!
http://stores.lulu.com/store.php?fAcctID=2712239



From Opus40-01 at opus40.org  Thu Oct  9 13:58:15 2008
From: Opus40-01 at opus40.org (TheOldMole)
Date: Thu, 09 Oct 2008 13:58:15 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] Nobel in Lit to France's Le Clezio
In-Reply-To: <4b65c2d70810090737n70c67449g7d3c878edf64cb11@mail.gmail.com>
References: <8CAF82C7EAA7577-DA4-ADD@WEBMAIL-DG01.sim.aol.com>
	<4b65c2d70810090737n70c67449g7d3c878edf64cb11@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <48EE4637.30603@opus40.org>

At least it wasn't one of those ignorant Americans.

Anny Ballardini wrote:
> Lucky Le Clezio!
>
> 2008/10/9 <jforjames at aol.com <mailto:jforjames at aol.com>>
>
>     http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/10/09/AR2008100900243.html?hpid=topnews
>
>     ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>     McCain or Obama? Stay updated on coverage of the Presidential race
>     while you browse - Download Now
>     <http://toolbar.aol.com/elections/download.html?ncid=emlweusdown00000001>!
>
>
>     _______________________________________________
>     New-Poetry mailing list
>     New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu <mailto:New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
>     http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
>
>
>
> -- 
> Anny Ballardini
> http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
> http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
> http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html
> I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a 
> dancing star!
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>   

-- 
Tad Richards
http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/
http://opusforty.blogspot.com/

Don't forget to order your copy of FILM NOIR!
http://stores.lulu.com/store.php?fAcctID=2712239



From AlMaginnes at aol.com  Thu Oct  9 14:02:29 2008
From: AlMaginnes at aol.com (AlMaginnes at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2008 14:02:29 EDT
Subject: [New-Poetry] Goldbarth and Hoberman Win Major Prizes
Message-ID: <d58.2cd6dac0.361fa135@aol.com>

In what universe is Albert Goldbarth an under-recognized  poet?
**************New MapQuest Local shows what's happening at your destination.  
Dining, Movies, Events, News & more. Try it out 
(http://local.mapquest.com/?ncid=emlcntnew00000002)
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From rog3r.day at gmail.com  Thu Oct  9 14:06:33 2008
From: rog3r.day at gmail.com (Roger Day)
Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2008 19:06:33 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] Sarah Palin - book-banning
Message-ID: <fde503480810091106l605a018bj733ac070848a93d8@mail.gmail.com>

I seem to recall  thread on here about Palin and Book banning. Well,
it appears she didn't but she did back-track.

"In Alaska, she has deployed her end-times fundamentalist beliefs with
considerable adroitness, nimbly walking the tightrope between pleasing
the church crowd and reassuring her secular constituency of her
essential moderation. She appears to have learned from her early
experience in Wasilla, when, pressed by her backers in the Assembly of
God, she suggested to the librarian that such 'unsuitable' books as
Daddy's Roommate and Pastor, I Am Gay be removed from the library,
only to backtrack later with the claim that she was merely asking a
'rhetorical' (she meant hypothetical) question. Since then, as
governor, she's handled such issues with impressive wiliness. When the
Alaska Supreme Court ruled that gay partners of state employees must
receive the same benefits as heterosexual spouses, the legislature
passed a bill to block the payments. Palin made clear her sympathy
with the bill's intent, but refused to sign it on the grounds that to
do so would be to 'violate my oath of office'. Similarly, she endeared
herself to Evangelicals during her gubernatorial campaign by saying
that 'intelligent design' should be taught alongside evolution in the
state's public schools: 'Teach both,' she said, but then declined to
back a bill which would have made that teaching mandatory. Playing
politics by the rules of basketball, improvising her moves according
to the requirements of the moment, she is too opportunistic (some say
pragmatic) to be an ideologue. While she likes to trumpet her narrow
theology, with its stress on Calvinist predestination and the
imminence of the Rapture (the Iraq war is 'a task that is from God'),
she simultaneously manages to embody her state's peculiar brand of
live-and-let-live libertarianism."

http://www.lrb.co.uk/v30/n19/raba01_.html

FWIW, I admire Palins talents but her politics definitely sucks and
her actions paint her as a hypocrite I think. And if she becomes prez
or vice or whatever, she won't have that Alaskan treasure trove to
fall back on.

Roger
-- 
My Stuff: http://www.badstep.net/
"I began to warm and chill
to objects and their fields"
Nick Cave & The Bad Seeds


From jforjames at aol.com  Thu Oct  9 14:32:17 2008
From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 09 Oct 2008 14:32:17 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] Goldbarth and Hoberman Win Major Prizes
In-Reply-To: <48EE43FC.6040602@opus40.org>
References: <8CAF84C773D8D91-974-B3@webmail-dd09.sysops.aol.com>
	<48EE43FC.6040602@opus40.org>
Message-ID: <8CAF8547DFA1679-974-4B5@webmail-dd09.sysops.aol.com>

Tad, financials and commodities have suffered to the point where the investment capital players
are beginning to look at Poetry as an emerging sector.
Finnegan

-----Original Message-----
From: TheOldMole <Opus40-01 at opus40.org>
Sent: Thu, 9 Oct 2008 1:48 pm
Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Goldbarth and Hoberman Win Major Prizes


Interesting to see poets on Marketwatch.?
?
jforjames at aol.com wrote:?
> http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/albert-goldbarth-mary-ann-hoberman/story.aspx?guid=%7B6DD36C12-91E3-41B8-BE99-371D8964274D%7D&dist=hppr > <http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/albert-goldbarth-mary-ann-hoberman/story.aspx?guid=%7B6DD36C12-91E3-41B8-BE99-371D8964274D%7D&dist=hppr>?
> Albert Goldbarth and Mary Ann Hoberman Win Major Prizes for American Poets?
>?

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From Opus40-01 at opus40.org  Thu Oct  9 14:46:47 2008
From: Opus40-01 at opus40.org (TheOldMole)
Date: Thu, 09 Oct 2008 14:46:47 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] Goldbarth and Hoberman Win Major Prizes
In-Reply-To: <d58.2cd6dac0.361fa135@aol.com>
References: <d58.2cd6dac0.361fa135@aol.com>
Message-ID: <48EE5197.5040406@opus40.org>

In the universe of the readers of the Wall Street Journal, every poet is 
under-recognized.

AlMaginnes at aol.com wrote:
> In what universe is Albert Goldbarth an under-recognized poet?
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> New *MapQuest Local* shows what's happening at your destination. 
> Dining, Movies, Events, News & more. Try it out! 
> <http://local.mapquest.com/?ncid=emlcntnew00000002>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>   

-- 
Tad Richards
http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/
http://opusforty.blogspot.com/

Don't forget to order your copy of FILM NOIR!
http://stores.lulu.com/store.php?fAcctID=2712239



From Opus40-01 at opus40.org  Thu Oct  9 14:47:27 2008
From: Opus40-01 at opus40.org (TheOldMole)
Date: Thu, 09 Oct 2008 14:47:27 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] Goldbarth and Hoberman Win Major Prizes
In-Reply-To: <8CAF8547DFA1679-974-4B5@webmail-dd09.sysops.aol.com>
References: <8CAF84C773D8D91-974-B3@webmail-dd09.sysops.aol.com>	<48EE43FC.6040602@opus40.org>
	<8CAF8547DFA1679-974-4B5@webmail-dd09.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <48EE51BF.5040309@opus40.org>

Think I can sell futures in my poems?

jforjames at aol.com wrote:
> Tad, financials and commodities have suffered to the point where the 
> investment capital players
> are beginning to look at Poetry as an emerging sector.
> Finnegan
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: TheOldMole <Opus40-01 at opus40.org>
> Sent: Thu, 9 Oct 2008 1:48 pm
> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Goldbarth and Hoberman Win Major Prizes
>
> Interesting to see poets on Marketwatch. 
>  
> jforjames at aol.com <mailto:jforjames at aol.com> wrote: 
> > 
> http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/albert-goldbarth-mary-ann-hoberman/story.aspx?guid=%7B6DD36C12-91E3-41B8-BE99-371D8964274D%7D&dist=hppr 
> <http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/albert-goldbarth-mary-ann-hoberman/story.aspx?guid=%7B6DD36C12-91E3-41B8-BE99-371D8964274D%7D&dist=hppr> 
> > 
> <http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/albert-goldbarth-mary-ann-hoberman/story.aspx?guid=%7B6DD36C12-91E3-41B8-BE99-371D8964274D%7D&dist=hppr 
> <http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/albert-goldbarth-mary-ann-hoberman/story.aspx?guid=%7B6DD36C12-91E3-41B8-BE99-371D8964274D%7D&dist=hppr>> 
> > Albert Goldbarth and Mary Ann Hoberman Win Major Prizes for American 
> Poets 
> > 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> McCain or Obama? Stay updated on coverage of the Presidential race 
> while you browse - Download Now 
> <http://toolbar.aol.com/elections/download.html?ncid=emlweusdown00000001>! 
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>   

-- 
Tad Richards
http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/
http://opusforty.blogspot.com/

Don't forget to order your copy of FILM NOIR!
http://stores.lulu.com/store.php?fAcctID=2712239



From grahamd at ripon.edu  Thu Oct  9 15:03:05 2008
From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham)
Date: Thu, 09 Oct 2008 14:03:05 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Goldbarth 
In-Reply-To: <d58.2cd6dac0.361fa135@aol.com>
Message-ID: <C513BF99.311E%grahamd@ripon.edu>

Point taken, but I would still argue that Goldbarth *ought* to be more
recognized than he is, in terms of anthology appearances, critical articles,
inclusion in syllabuses, coverage in historical surveys, and so forth.
Sure, he's won some prestigious prizes.  Still, he only recently started
publishing with Graywolf, a major "little" press; it's not as if he's been a
Penguin or a FSG author all these decades.  Rather, he published with
presses like Ohio State, Time Being, Godine, Ontario Review. . . .  So just
try to find some of his early works, even now.

To my mind, he is every bit as major a poet as, say, John Ashbery.  I know
that's not a universally accepted opinion.  But it is (being mine) the
correct one. . . .


On 10/9/08 1:02 PM, "AlMaginnes at aol.com" <AlMaginnes at aol.com> wrote:

> In what universe is Albert Goldbarth an under-recognized poet?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> New MapQuest Local shows what's happening at your destination. Dining, Movies,
> Events, News & more. Try it out!
> <http://local.mapquest.com/?ncid=emlcntnew00000002>
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry

-- 


====================================================
David Graham
grahamd at ripon.edu
Home Page:
http://web.mac.com/drjazz/

Poetry Library:
http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html
====================================================



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From alexdickow9 at yahoo.com  Thu Oct  9 16:18:30 2008
From: alexdickow9 at yahoo.com (Alexander Dickow)
Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2008 13:18:30 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [New-Poetry] Le Clezio and Chirot
In-Reply-To: <200810091600.m99G06nK005094@wiz.cath.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <419201.76367.qm@web35508.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Anny,
Ditto, Chirot's fabulous: the man and the work. 
Don't know how I feel about Le Clezio, but I suppose he's sort of important as a novelist, and I'm glad it's a French writer this year. On the other hand, he's going to steal all my press space! Dang, I was counting on that two-page spread in Le Monde....
Amicalement,
Alex


From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net  Thu Oct  9 18:04:18 2008
From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman)
Date: Thu, 09 Oct 2008 17:04:18 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Goldbarth and Hoberman Win Major Prizes
In-Reply-To: <8CAF84C773D8D91-974-B3@webmail-dd09.sysops.aol.com>
References: <8CAF84C773D8D91-974-B3@webmail-dd09.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <48EE7FE2.4040405@nut-n-but.net>


>
>
> The Poetry Foundation has announced that Albert Goldbarth and Mary Ann 
> Hoberman are the winners of its fifth annual Pegasus Awards. The 
> announcement was made at a dinner ceremony last night at the Jay 
> Pritzker Pavilion Stage at Millennium Park in Chicago. Established in 
> 2004, the Pegasus Awards are a series of annual prizes with an 
> emphasis on new awards to under-recognized poets and types of poetry.
Under-recognized types of poetry?????? 

--Bob G.



From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net  Thu Oct  9 18:24:08 2008
From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman)
Date: Thu, 09 Oct 2008 17:24:08 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Goldbarth and Hoberman Win Major Prizes
In-Reply-To: <48EE5197.5040406@opus40.org>
References: <d58.2cd6dac0.361fa135@aol.com> <48EE5197.5040406@opus40.org>
Message-ID: <48EE8488.1010505@nut-n-but.net>

TheOldMole wrote:
> In the universe of the readers of the Wall Street Journal, every poet 
> is under-recognized.
>
> AlMaginnes at aol.com wrote:
>> In what universe is Albert Goldbarth an under-recognized poet?
>>
Don't you mean "over-recognized," Mole?

--Bob



From tony at starve.org  Thu Oct  9 18:48:27 2008
From: tony at starve.org (Tony Trigilio)
Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2008 17:48:27 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Beat Generation Symposium Starts Tomorrow!
Message-ID: <48EE8A3B.6080607@starve.org>

*******************************
THE BEAT GENERATION SYMPOSIUM
*******************************

www.colum.edu/beatsymposium

Full schedule pasted below.

Please join us for a conference devoted to the literary and cultural 
legacy of the Beat Generation: ?The Beat Generation Symposium,? 
co-sponsored by the Beat Studies Association, the Columbia College 
Chicago English Department and Provost?s Office, Columbia College?s 
Ellen Stone Belic Institute for the Study of Women and Gender in the 
Arts and Media, and the Illinois State University Department of English 
and College of Liberal Arts and Sciences.

Friday, October 10, and Saturday, October 11, 2008

Columbia College Chicago

Film Row Cinema

1104 South Wabash Avenue, 8th floor

This is an academic Beat Studies conference to be held in conjunction 
with the Columbia College?s Center for the Book and Paper Arts?s Fall 
2008 display of the Jack Kerouac ON THE ROAD manuscript scroll. The Beat 
Generation Symposium features panel discussions each day, with poetry 
readings by Joanne Kyger (October 10) and Michael McClure (October 11). 
The readings are free and open to the public. We regret that Diane di 
Prima had to cancel her appearance, but are pleased to announce that 
Michael McClure will now be the featured poet on Saturday, October 11.

The weekend of the symposium, there will be a related offsite reading by 
Michael Rothenberg (Unhurried Vision) and David Meltzer (David?s Copy) 
sponsored by Myopic Books and the Poetry Center of Chicago. Sunday, 
October 12, 7:00 p.m. Myopic Books, 1564 N Milwaukee Ave, in Chicago?s 
Wicker Park neighborhood.


*******************************
REGISTRATION
*******************************

Free for Columbia College faculty, staff, and students with valid IDs. 
Evening poetry readings are free and open to the public.

Conference fees: $100 ($50 for Graduate Students, Independent Scholars, 
and Retired Faculty).


*******************************
CONFERENCE SCHEDULE
*******************************

OCTOBER 10, 2008

10:00 a.m.
Welcome and Plenary Address
Jennie Skerl, West Chester University
Tony Trigilio, Columbia College Chicago

10:15-11:30 a.m.
"Road Mapping(s): The Textual Terrain of On the Road"

Panel Chair: Tim Hunt, Illinois State University

"Byways and Highways: Manuscripts, Typescripts, and the Process of On 
the Road"
Isaac Gewirtz, Curator, Berg Collection, New York Public Library

"Visions and Versions of Jack: A Fluid Text Edition of On the Road"
John Bryant, Department of English, Hofstra University

"Hidden Roads: Improvisational Textuality and On the Road"
Tim Hunt, Department of English, Illinois State University


11:45-1:00 p.m.
"Crossing to Safety -- Cultural Contestations in Beat Literature"

Panel Chair: Fiona Paton, State University of New York at New Paltz

"Kerouac, Beat Religiosity, and the Center of American Culture"
Steven Schroeder, Shenzhen University

"'A Kick at the Icebox Door': Haiku and Beat Haikus"
Matt Theado, Gardner-Webb University

"Jack Kerouac, the Qu?b?cois Diaspora, and Qu?b?cois Literature"
Hassan Melehy, The University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill

1:00-2:30 p.m. (Break for Lunch)

2:30-3:45 p.m.
"The Aesthetics and Spirit of Avant-Garde Practice: Joanne Kyger and 
Diane di Prima"

Panel Chair: Ronna C. Johnson, Tufts University

"Joanne Kyger and the Aesthetics of Attention"
Terrance Diggory, Skidmore College

"'Who did we pray to'? Diane di Prima's Loba"
Tony Trigilio, Columbia College Chicago

"'From the inside': Joanne Kyger's Changes of Mind"
Linda Russo, Washington State University

"The Feminized Interzone in Kyger and Di Prima"
Amy Friedman, Ursinus College


4:00-5:15 p.m.
"Hydrogen Jukebox: Allen Ginsberg and Deaf Poetry"

Peter Cook, Columbia College Chicago
Miriam Lerner, National Technical Institute for the Deaf, Rochester 
Institute of Technology
Kenny Lerner, National Technical Institute for the Deaf, Rochester 
Institute of Technology; Member, Flying Words Project

7:00 p.m.
Poetry reading by Joanne Kyger


OCTOBER 11, 2008

8:45-10:00 a.m.
"Beat Studies, The Next Generation: Showcasing Graduate and 
Post-Graduate Scholarship"

Panel Chair: Tony Trigilio, Columbia College Chicago

"The Impossible Manifesto: Tracing the Manifesto Form through 
Avant-Garde and Beat Writing"
Jimmy Fazzino, University of California, Santa Cruz.

"Parasites, Viruses, and William S. Burroughs's Method"
Michael Sean Bolton, Arizona State University.

"Summers in the Skagit: Gary Snyder, Jack Kerouac, and the Language of 
the Lookout"
John J. Morrell, Vanderbilt University.


10:15-11:30 a.m.
"Exploring the Beat Landscape -- Welch, Ferlinghetti, and Kaufman"

Panel Chair: Nancy M. Grace, The College of Wooster

"Lew Welch: Hermit Poet of Rat Flat"
Jane Falk, The University of Akron

"'Unfair Arguments with Existence': Ferlinghetti's One-Acts and the 
Modes of Beat Drama"
Deborah R. Geis, DePauw University

"Bob Kaufman and Urbanizing Pastoral"
Todd Nathan Thorpe, The University of Notre Dame

11:45-12:45 p.m.

Elizabeth Von Vogt reads from her memoir, 681 Lexington Avenue -- A Beat 
Education in New York City, 1947-1954

In this memoir just released from Greater Midwest Publishing, Von Vogt, 
a sister of John Clellon Holmes, describes her coming of age among 
Clellon Holmes, Jack Kerouac, Allen Ginsberg, and other Beats in 
post-World War II New York City.


12:45-2:15 p.m. (Break for lunch)


2:30-3:45 p.m.
"New Scholarship on William S. Burroughs"

Panel Chair: Jennie Skerl, West Chester University

"Love and 'Genial' Laughter: Cutting Up The Ticket That Exploded (1961 
and 1967)"
Katharine Streip, Concordia University

"Conservative Politics and Literary Radicalism: Burroughs and Kerouac"
Allen Hibbard, Middle Tennessee State University

"William S. Burroughs as 'Good Ol'Boy': Eating the Naked Lunch in East 
Texas"
Rob Johnson, The University of Texas-Pan American

Respondent: Timothy Murphy, University of Oklahoma


4:00-5:15 p.m.
"Beat Reception and Recovery -- Assessing the Critics and the Historians"

Chair: Tim Hunt, Illinois State University

"Inside the 6 Gallery with Co-founder Deborah Remington"
Nancy M. Grace, The College of Wooster

"Kerouac Reception in the 1980s: Renaissance and Scholarly Revival"
Ronna C. Johnson, Tufts University.

"Recent Reception of Naked Lunch"
Jennie Skerl, West Chester University.

"Infiltrating the Boy Gang: Women in the Encyclopedia of Beat Literature"
Kurt Hemmer, William Rainey Harper College


7:00 p.m.
Poetry reading by Michael McClure


8:00 p.m.
Closing Reception (Film Row Theater lobby)


The Beat Generation Symposium is sponsored by the English Department and 
Provost's Office of Columbia College Chicago, in conjunction with the 
Beat Studies Association, an international organization that fosters 
scholarship on Beat Generation literature and art; Ellen Stone Belic 
Institute for the Study of Women and Gender in the Arts and Media; and 
the Illinois State University Department of English and College of 
Liberal Arts and Sciences.

For information on joining the Beat Studies Association, please go to: 
http://www.wooster.edu/beatstudies/index.html





From anny.ballardini at gmail.com  Fri Oct 10 09:34:12 2008
From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2008 15:34:12 +0200
Subject: [New-Poetry] A Journal of European and American Studies
Message-ID: <4b65c2d70810100634y2b4703dfuf9371e7b7a404697@mail.gmail.com>

*>From:* Lee Yu-cheng [mailto:yclee at sinica.edu.tw]
>*Sent:* Thursday, September 25, 2008 3:02 AM

**

EurAmerica

A Journal of European and American Studies



Call for papers



EurAmerica is a bilingual (English and Chinese) quarterly journal published
by the Institute of European and American Studies, Academia Sinica, Taiwan.
It welcomes scholarly papers in humanities and social sciences related to
Europe and the United States of America. EurAmerica is indexed or abstracted
in America: History and Life, EBSCO Academic Search Complete, Historical
Abstracts, International Political Science Abstracts (IPSA), MLA
International Bibliography, Political Science Abstracts, Sociological
Abstracts (SOCA), Taiwan Social Sciences Citation Index (TSSCI), and
Wordwide Political Science Abstracts.



? Please address submissions to euramerica at sinica.edu.tw or

Editor in Chief, EurAmerica

Institute of European and American Studies

Academia Sinica

128, Academia Road, Sec. 2

Nangang, Taipei, Taiwan 11529



? http://www.ea.sinica.edu.tw/euramerica/enindex.php




-- 
Anny Ballardini
http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html
I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing
star!
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From anny.ballardini at gmail.com  Fri Oct 10 13:48:01 2008
From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2008 19:48:01 +0200
Subject: [New-Poetry] The Art of Calligraphy
Message-ID: <4b65c2d70810101048l71deb87fw6f7a20e752694b17@mail.gmail.com>

that's why I liked to write:
http://www.nytimes.com/slideshow/2008/10/10/arts/1010-TRAC_index.html



-- 
Anny Ballardini
http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html
I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing
star!
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From edmundhardy at hotmail.com  Fri Oct 10 14:10:44 2008
From: edmundhardy at hotmail.com (Edmund Hardy)
Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2008 18:10:44 +0000
Subject: [New-Poetry] Constellation: Alice Notley
In-Reply-To: <9db3e7290810101055v3c257369td6bf1f92b462fd67@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20081010174257.AEL05117@mpmail2.bbk.ac.uk>
	<9db3e7290810101055v3c257369td6bf1f92b462fd67@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <COL102-W59CD64F9DEC3018F5DCA8DBA350@phx.gbl>


Dear All,

 






Constellation: Alice Notley goes live today - a collaborative web event featuring 
34 writers responding to individual Notley poems; video footage of Notley reading 
at Birkbeck last May; and the publication of 10 new Notley poems.





Curated by Carol Watts at Birkbeck Centre for Poetics, Edmund Hardy at "Intercapillary 
Space" and Steve Willey and Alex Davies at Openned. Step in at 
http://www.bbk.ac.uk/cprc/events/alicenotleyconstellation or via the 




"Intercapillary Space" and Openned sites.

Contributors are: Tim Allen, Caroline Bergvall, Elizabeth Bryant, Jon Clay,




Jennifer Cooke, Jen Currin, Ian Davidson, Melissa Flores-Borquez, Susana Gardner, John 
Hall, Edmund Hardy, Ralph Hawkins, Lynne Hjelmgaard, Amy Hollowell, Sarah Hopkins,
Piers Hugill, Elizabeth James, Claudia Keelan, David Kennedy, Pansy Maurer-Alvarez,




Peter Middleton, Stephen Mooney, Alice Notley, Redell Olsen, Michael Peverett,
Sophie Robinson, William Rowe, Lisa Samuels, Zoe Skoulding, Elizabeth Treadwell,
Catherine Wagner, Steven Waling, Dana Ward, Carol Watts, Steve Willey




_________________________________________________________________
Win New York holidays with Kellogg?s & Live Search
http://clk.atdmt.com/UKM/go/111354033/direct/01/
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From anny.ballardini at gmail.com  Sat Oct 11 10:02:21 2008
From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2008 16:02:21 +0200
Subject: [New-Poetry] Raymond Carver on the Almanac
Message-ID: <4b65c2d70810110702i4336c0cdje65e890b1087f0cc@mail.gmail.com>

 Sleeping

by Raymond Carver<http://www.elabs7.com/c.html?rtr=on&s=fj6,c2sc,dv,6a6q,iueg,3hrs,fxvj>

He slept on his hands.
On a rock.
On his feet.
On someone else's feet.
He slept on buses, trains, in airplanes.
Slept on duty.
Slept beside the road.
Slept on a sack of apples.
He slept in a pay toilet.
In a hayloft.
In the Super Dome.
Slept in a Jaguar, and in the back of a pickup.
Slept in theaters.
In jail.
On boats.
He slept in line shacks and, once, in a castle.
Slept in the rain.
In blistering sun he slept.
On horseback.
He slept in chairs, churches, in fancy hotels.
He slept under strange roofs all his life.
Now he sleeps under the earth.
Sleeps on and on.
Like an old king.

"Sleeping" by Raymond Carver from *Ultramarine*. (c) Vintage Books, 1986.
Reprinted with permission (buy
now<http://www.elabs7.com/c.html?rtr=on&s=fj6,c2sc,dv,l3j,g747,3hrs,fxvj>)



-- 
Anny Ballardini
http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html
I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing
star!
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From grahamd at ripon.edu  Sat Oct 11 12:28:44 2008
From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham)
Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2008 11:28:44 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Grumman, you're not alone!
Message-ID: <919461CA-2FC6-4D65-A1B5-1D48D5A623D2@ripon.edu>

 From Bill Knott's blog:

WEBSTERS OFFICIAL ANTHOLOGY OF AMERICAN POETRY

doesn't exist. But
if it did, I wouldn't
be in it.



--Bill Knott

10/10/08

http://billknott.typepad.com/


========================================
David Graham
grahamd at ripon.edu

Home Page:
http://web.mac.com/drjazz

Poetry Library:
http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html
==========================================




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From anny.ballardini at gmail.com  Sat Oct 11 12:44:02 2008
From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2008 18:44:02 +0200
Subject: [New-Poetry] Grumman, you're not alone!
In-Reply-To: <919461CA-2FC6-4D65-A1B5-1D48D5A623D2@ripon.edu>
References: <919461CA-2FC6-4D65-A1B5-1D48D5A623D2@ripon.edu>
Message-ID: <4b65c2d70810110944x750a536dld894b7b270479a8e@mail.gmail.com>

That Sabbatical, David is acting in a strange way on you, I mean, we know
GruMMan, but we never knew a GrAHam like this!

On Sat, Oct 11, 2008 at 6:28 PM, David Graham <grahamd at ripon.edu> wrote:

> From Bill Knott's blog:
> *WEBSTERS OFFICIAL ANTHOLOGY OF AMERICAN POETRY<http://billknott.typepad.com/notpoetryblog/2008/10/websters-official-anthology-of-american-poetry.html>
> ***
> *
> *
>
> doesn't exist. But
> if it did, I wouldn't
> be in it.
>
>
> --Bill Knott
>
> 10/10/08
> http://billknott.typepad.com/
>
>
> ========================================
> David Graham
> grahamd at ripon.edu
>
> Home Page:
> http://web.mac.com/drjazz
>
> Poetry Library:
> http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html
> ==========================================
>
>


-- 
Anny Ballardini
http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html
I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing
star!
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From halvard at earthlink.net  Sat Oct 11 13:09:28 2008
From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson)
Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2008 12:09:28 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Amazing Interludes
Message-ID: <BCC534E5-ADD8-44E3-9904-08DB0173F86D@earthlink.net>

Amazing Interludes


1.

Looking far down the street,
         the American lady made discreet
inquiries as to reproductive technologies.

2.

         Her friend Henri often noted
that it was harder to tell blacks from whites
         on radio than on TV.

3.

                  Henri had a cousin named Germaine
who?d never even heard the term
         ?white flight.?

4.

The American lady had a lovely shell, rising
above the vegetable soup
         simmering on the stove.

5.

Henri recites Sun Tzu on the both the advantages
         and dangers
of ?accessible? ground.

6.

         Perhaps a thousand men hide in a row
                  of poplars,
guarding their lines of communication.



Hal


Halvard Johnson
================
halvard at earthlink.net
halvard at gmail.com
http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html
http://entropyandme.blogspot.com
http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com
http://www.hamiltonstone.org
http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html
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From Opus40-01 at opus40.org  Sat Oct 11 13:44:41 2008
From: Opus40-01 at opus40.org (TheOldMole)
Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2008 13:44:41 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] Grumman, you're not alone!
In-Reply-To: <919461CA-2FC6-4D65-A1B5-1D48D5A623D2@ripon.edu>
References: <919461CA-2FC6-4D65-A1B5-1D48D5A623D2@ripon.edu>
Message-ID: <48F0E609.7050100@opus40.org>

Grumman, you're alone.







But so are we all.

David Graham wrote:
> From Bill Knott's blog:
>
> *WEBSTERS OFFICIAL ANTHOLOGY OF AMERICAN POETRY 
> <http://billknott.typepad.com/notpoetryblog/2008/10/websters-official-anthology-of-american-poetry.html>*
> *
> *
>
> doesn't exist. But
> if it did, I wouldn't
> be in it.
>
>
> --Bill Knott
>
> 10/10/08
>
> http://billknott.typepad.com/
>
>
> ========================================
> David Graham
> grahamd at ripon.edu <mailto:grahamd at ripon.edu>
>
> Home Page:
> http://web.mac.com/drjazz
>
> Poetry Library:
> http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html
> ==========================================
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>   

-- 
Tad Richards
http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/
http://opusforty.blogspot.com/

Don't forget to order your copy of FILM NOIR!
http://stores.lulu.com/store.php?fAcctID=2712239



From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net  Sat Oct 11 14:55:15 2008
From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman)
Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2008 13:55:15 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Grumman, you're not alone!
In-Reply-To: <48F0E609.7050100@opus40.org>
References: <919461CA-2FC6-4D65-A1B5-1D48D5A623D2@ripon.edu>
	<48F0E609.7050100@opus40.org>
Message-ID: <48F0F693.6070902@nut-n-but.net>

TheOldMole wrote:
> Grumman, you're alone.
Thanks, Mole.  I knew you'd come through for me.

--Bob G.



From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net  Sat Oct 11 14:58:51 2008
From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman)
Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2008 13:58:51 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Grumman, you're not alone!
In-Reply-To: <48F0E609.7050100@opus40.org>
References: <919461CA-2FC6-4D65-A1B5-1D48D5A623D2@ripon.edu>
	<48F0E609.7050100@opus40.org>
Message-ID: <48F0F76B.1010301@nut-n-but.net>

TheOldMole wrote:
> Grumman, you're alone.
>
>
>
> But so are we all.
Oops, I missed the second line.  You spoiled it.  And you got it wrong: 
I'm way aloner than you!

--Bob G.



From anny.ballardini at gmail.com  Sat Oct 11 14:20:32 2008
From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2008 20:20:32 +0200
Subject: [New-Poetry] Grumman, you're not alone!
In-Reply-To: <48F0F76B.1010301@nut-n-but.net>
References: <919461CA-2FC6-4D65-A1B5-1D48D5A623D2@ripon.edu>
	<48F0E609.7050100@opus40.org> <48F0F76B.1010301@nut-n-but.net>
Message-ID: <4b65c2d70810111120w45276955s4c5a5e5741a93cd2@mail.gmail.com>

none loneliest than me, you GruMMan, what'd'y think?

On Sat, Oct 11, 2008 at 8:58 PM, Bob Grumman <bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net>wrote:

> TheOldMole wrote:
>
>> Grumman, you're alone.
>>
>>
>>
>> But so are we all.
>>
> Oops, I missed the second line.  You spoiled it.  And you got it wrong: I'm
> way aloner than you!
>
> --Bob G.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>



-- 
Anny Ballardini
http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html
I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing
star!
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From grahamd at ripon.edu  Sat Oct 11 14:41:52 2008
From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham)
Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2008 13:41:52 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Grumman, you're not alone!
In-Reply-To: <48F0E609.7050100@opus40.org>
References: <919461CA-2FC6-4D65-A1B5-1D48D5A623D2@ripon.edu>
	<48F0E609.7050100@opus40.org>
Message-ID: <859E9028-9345-496F-8C9D-592CBE53C6C6@ripon.edu>

I have my books
And my poetry to protect me;
I am shielded in my armor,
Hiding in my room, safe within my womb.
I touch no one and no one touches me.
I am a rock,
I am an island.

And a rock feels no pain;
And an island never cries.

--Paul Simon

========================================
David Graham
grahamd at ripon.edu

Home Page:
http://web.mac.com/drjazz

Poetry Library:
http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html
==========================================




On Oct 11, 2008, at 12:44 PM, TheOldMole wrote:

> Grumman, you're alone.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> But so are we all.
>
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From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net  Sat Oct 11 15:43:08 2008
From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman)
Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2008 14:43:08 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Grumman, you're not alone!
In-Reply-To: <4b65c2d70810111120w45276955s4c5a5e5741a93cd2@mail.gmail.com>
References: <919461CA-2FC6-4D65-A1B5-1D48D5A623D2@ripon.edu><48F0E609.7050100@opus40.org>
	<48F0F76B.1010301@nut-n-but.net>
	<4b65c2d70810111120w45276955s4c5a5e5741a93cd2@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <48F101CC.9020607@nut-n-but.net>

Anny Ballardini wrote:
> none loneliest than me, you GruMMan, what'd'y think?
Nah, not till you make a mathematical poem, Anny!

Mr. Alonest



From amyhappens at yahoo.com  Sat Oct 11 15:09:56 2008
From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king)
Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2008 12:09:56 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [New-Poetry] Fri. Oct 24th -- Sat.,
	Oct. 25th!! Ducks & Carolinians ...
Message-ID: <282295.69962.qm@web83305.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>



STAIN OF POETRY
presents


Fri., Oct. 24th @ 7 p.m. - Stain Bar - Williamsburg, Brooklyn

** Browning, Cohen, Herron,
Howe, Rumble, and Svalina **


&


SPECIAL EVENT: UDP Swedish Authors
and Translators

Sat., Oct. 25th @ 6 p.m. - Stain Bar - Williamsburg, Brooklyn

** Johannes G?ransson,
Fredrik Nyberg, and Jennifer Hayashida**

?

stain

766 grand street

brooklyn, ny 11211

(L train to Grand Street,

1 block west)

718/387-7840

open daily @ 5 p.m.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~

?

October 24th
@ 7 p.m.

Sommer Browning has
a chapbook out with horse less press called Vale

Tudo and another on the rise with Cue Editions. Forklift, Ohio, New

York Quarterly, Open Letters Monthly, Free Verse and other journals

have published her poems. She lives and loves in Brooklyn.

~~~

Julia Cohen has three chapbooks
available. ?The History of a Lake Never Drowns? from Dancing Girl Press and
?Chugwater? (with Mathias Svalina) from Transmission Press are forthcoming this
year. Her poems have been published in Denver Quarterly, Copper Nickel, Bird
Dog, Spinning Jenny, RealPoetik, Forklift, Ohio, MiPOesia, and GutCult amongst
others. Her blog: www.onthemessiersideofneat.blogspot.com.

~~~

Patrick Herron (http://patrickherron.com) is a poet, musician, artist and
information scientist living in Chapel Hill.
His doll Lester is the author of the book _Be Somebody_ (http://effingpress.com/lester.htm)
published in April 2008 by Effing Press (a 2003 review from Ron Silliman here: http://tinyurl.com/3e8es). Patrick is the author of several other books of poetry
including _The American Godwar Complex_ (2004, BlazeVox, download in full for
free at http://tinyurl.com/22fsn5).


~~~

Brian Howe is a freelance arts
journalist and poet living in Durham,
 NC. His poems and sound art have
appeared in Fascicle, Octopus, Apocryphal Text, Listenlight, Effing Magazine,
Soft Targets, Cannibal, MiPO, Word for/ Word, and elsewhere. Howe is the author
of two chapbooks, Guitar Smash (3rdness Press; 2006) and Foreign
Letter (Beard of Bees; forthcoming in 2008). He is the creator of the
electro-poetic project Glossolalia (http://glossolalia-blacksail.blogspot.com/) and a
member of the Lucifer Poetics Group.

~~~

Ken Rumble is the author of Key Bridge
(Carolina Wren Press, 2007) and President Letters (Scantily Clad Press,
forthcoming.) His poems and reviews have appeared in Cutbank, Typo, Coconut,
the tiny, Minor American, Talisman, and others. He lives in Greensboro, North Carolina.

~~~

Mathias
Svalina is the co-editor of Octopus Magazine &
Books. He is the author of the chapbooks Why I Am White (Kitchen Press),
Creation Myths (New Michigan Press), The Viral Lease (forthcoming from Small
Anchor Press) &, written in collaboration with Julia Cohen, When We Broke
the Microscope (Small Fires Press). His first book, Destruction Myth, is
forthcoming from Cleveland State University Press in 09.

~~~~

Johannes
G?ransson is the co-editor of the press Action Books and the online
journal Action, Yes. He is the translator of Remainland: Selected Poems of Aase
Berg and Ideals Clearance by Henry Parland, as well as the upcoming With Deer
by Aase Berg and Collobert Orbital by Johan Jonsson. His own books include: A
New Quarantine Will Take My Place, Pilot and Dear Ra.

~~~~

Fredrik Nyberg is a Swedish poet born
in 1968, currently living in G?teborg,
 Sweden. In
2007, Ugly Duckling Presse published a translation of his d?but collection, A
Different Practice (En annorlunda praktik), originally published by
Norstedts F?rlag in 1998. Subsequent books include Blomsterur -
f?rklaringar och dikter (Clockwork of Flowers - Explanations and Poems,
2000), ?ren (The Years, 2002), and Det blir inte r?ttvist
bara f?r att b?da blundar (It won?t be fair just because both shut
their eyes, 2006).? Translations of
his poetry have appeared in The Chicago Review, The Literary Review, Calque,
Circumference, and Action, Yes. A new collection - Nio, nine, nein, neuf
- is forthcoming from Norstedts in the fall of 2008.

~~~~

Poet and translator Jennifer Hayashida
was born in Oakland, CA,
and grew up in the suburbs of Stockholm and San Francisco. She is the
recipient of a 2008-2009 LMCC Workspace Residency, a 2007 PEN Translation Fund
Grant, a Witter Bynner Poetry Translator Residency at the Santa Fe Art
Institute, and has been a Fellow at the MacDowell Colony. She is the translator
of Fredrik Nyberg?s A Different Practice (Ugly Duckling Presse, 2007)
and Eva Sj?din?s Inner China (Litmus Press, 2005). Her poems and
translations have appeared in The Chicago Review, Calque, Circumference, The
Literary Review, Insurance, The Asian Pacific American Journal, and Action,
Yes; text-based work has been included in group exhibitions at The Vera List
Center for Art and Politics and Artists Space. She received her MFA in writing
from Bard College in 2003. She currently lives in
Brooklyn, and is Director of the Asian American Studies Program at Hunter College.
~~~~



stain

766 grand street

brooklyn, ny 11211

(L train to Grand Street,

1 block west)

718/387-7840

open daily @ 5 p.m.


~~~~


Hosted by Amy
King and Ana
Bozicevic


OCT. 24TH -- http://stainofpoetry.wordpress.com/2008/09/27/friday-october-24-2008-700-pm/

?

OCT. 25TH -- http://stainofpoetry.wordpress.com/2008/09/27/ugly-duckling-presses-swedish-authors-translators/

?

?



_______





Recent work

http://www.writing.upenn.edu/pennsound/x/King.html



Amy's Alias

http://amyking.org/


      
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From JforJames at aol.com  Sat Oct 11 16:12:33 2008
From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com)
Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2008 16:12:33 EDT
Subject: [New-Poetry] Milton at the Morgan Library
Message-ID: <c23.4b5a3141.362262b1@aol.com>

 

_http://www.themorgan.org/exhibitions/exhibition.asp?id=12_ 
(http://www.themorgan.org/exhibitions/exhibition.asp?id=12) 
 
John Milton?s Paradise Lost
October 7, 2008, through January 4,  2009
 
John Milton's Paradise Lost celebrates the 400th anniversary of the birth  of 
John Milton (1608?1674) with an exhibition drawn from the Morgan's collection 
 of the English poet's work, which includes the only surviving manuscript of  
Paradise Lost


**************New MapQuest Local shows what's happening at your destination.  
Dining, Movies, Events, News & more. Try it out 
(http://local.mapquest.com/?ncid=emlcntnew00000002)
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From JforJames at aol.com  Sat Oct 11 17:03:37 2008
From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com)
Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2008 17:03:37 EDT
Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetry Ireland at 30
Message-ID: <bf9.4a19c874.36226ea9@aol.com>

_http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2008/1011/1223676792355.html_ 
(http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2008/1011/1223676792355.html) 
 

One of the goals of Poetry Ireland was "to undo the harm inherited from  the 
Victorian education system, which taught us to be slightly embarrassed by  
poetry," said Theo Dorgan, who was director of Poetry Ireland for 11 years.  
"Poetry is as natural as breathing," he added.
 
"If poets went on strike, nobody would notice for 300 years, and then there  
would be a big black hole at the heart of our culture," said Paula Meehan.
 
 
**************New MapQuest Local shows what's happening at your destination.  
Dining, Movies, Events, News & more. Try it out 
(http://local.mapquest.com/?ncid=emlcntnew00000002)
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From halvard at earthlink.net  Sat Oct 11 17:42:20 2008
From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson)
Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2008 16:42:20 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Grumman, you're not alone!
In-Reply-To: <859E9028-9345-496F-8C9D-592CBE53C6C6@ripon.edu>
References: <919461CA-2FC6-4D65-A1B5-1D48D5A623D2@ripon.edu>
	<48F0E609.7050100@opus40.org>
	<859E9028-9345-496F-8C9D-592CBE53C6C6@ripon.edu>
Message-ID: <C9B0401C-E844-4C25-9112-8177455DE49C@earthlink.net>

Leave Grumman alone, you meanies.

Hal

McCain / Palin -- Just say thanks but no thanks.
They're a bridge to nowhere.

Halvard Johnson
================
halvard at earthlink.net
halvard at gmail.com
http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html
http://entropyandme.blogspot.com
http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com
http://www.hamiltonstone.org
http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html



On Oct 11, 2008, at 1:41 PM, David Graham wrote:

> I have my books
> And my poetry to protect me;
> I am shielded in my armor,
> Hiding in my room, safe within my womb.
> I touch no one and no one touches me.
> I am a rock,
> I am an island.
>
> And a rock feels no pain;
> And an island never cries.
>
> --Paul Simon
>
> ========================================
> David Graham
> grahamd at ripon.edu
>
> Home Page:
> http://web.mac.com/drjazz
>
> Poetry Library:
> http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html
> ==========================================
>
>
>
>
> On Oct 11, 2008, at 12:44 PM, TheOldMole wrote:
>
>> Grumman, you're alone.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> But so are we all.
>>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry

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From Opus40-01 at opus40.org  Sat Oct 11 17:51:28 2008
From: Opus40-01 at opus40.org (TheOldMole)
Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2008 17:51:28 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] Grumman, you're not alone!
In-Reply-To: <C9B0401C-E844-4C25-9112-8177455DE49C@earthlink.net>
References: <919461CA-2FC6-4D65-A1B5-1D48D5A623D2@ripon.edu>	<48F0E609.7050100@opus40.org>	<859E9028-9345-496F-8C9D-592CBE53C6C6@ripon.edu>
	<C9B0401C-E844-4C25-9112-8177455DE49C@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <48F11FE0.7070806@opus40.org>

That's the problem.

Halvard Johnson wrote:
> Leave Grumman alone, you meanies.
>
> Hal
>
> McCain / Palin -- Just say thanks but no thanks.
> They're a bridge to nowhere.
>
> Halvard Johnson
> ================
> halvard at earthlink.net <mailto:halvard at earthlink.net>
> halvard at gmail.com <mailto:halvard at gmail.com>
> http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html 
> <http://home.earthlink.net/%7Ehalvard/index.html>
> http://entropyandme.blogspot.com 
> http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com
> http://www.hamiltonstone.org
> http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html
>
>
>
> On Oct 11, 2008, at 1:41 PM, David Graham wrote:
>
>> I have my books
>> And my poetry to protect me;
>> I am shielded in my armor,
>> Hiding in my room, safe within my womb.
>> I touch no one and no one touches me.
>> I am a rock,
>> I am an island.
>>
>> And a rock feels no pain;
>> And an island never cries.
>>
>> --Paul Simon
>>
>> ========================================
>> David Graham
>> grahamd at ripon.edu <mailto:grahamd at ripon.edu>
>>
>> Home Page:
>> http://web.mac.com/drjazz
>>
>> Poetry Library:
>> http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html
>> ==========================================
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Oct 11, 2008, at 12:44 PM, TheOldMole wrote:
>>
>>> Grumman, you're alone.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> But so are we all.
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> New-Poetry mailing list
>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu <mailto:New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>   

-- 
Tad Richards
http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/
http://opusforty.blogspot.com/

Don't forget to order your copy of FILM NOIR!
http://stores.lulu.com/store.php?fAcctID=2712239



From anny.ballardini at gmail.com  Sun Oct 12 12:43:50 2008
From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2008 18:43:50 +0200
Subject: [New-Poetry] Paul Engle from the Writer's Almanac
Message-ID: <4b65c2d70810120943o74d0e7f2sdf0b15a4652f9e28@mail.gmail.com>

It's the birthday of the poet *Paul
Engle<http://www.elabs7.com/c.html?rtr=on&s=fj6,c2vl,dv,ixjr,4g65,3hrs,fxvj#Biographical%20Note>
*, born in Cedar Rapids, Iowa, in 1908. He joined the faculty of the
University of Iowa and in 1941 took over as director of the Iowa Writers'
Workshop, the first program in the country to offer an M.F.A. in Creative
Writing. He was the director for 24 years, and he shaped the program, raised
millions of dollars, and made it into a model for similar M.F.A. programs.
He convinced lots of famous writers to move to Iowa City and serve as
faculty members, writers like Robert Lowell, John Berryman, and Kurt
Vonnegut. And he also convinced many bright young students to come,
including Flannery O'Connor, Philip Levine, Donald Justice, and Robert Bly.
He died in 1991 in an airport, on the way to accept an award for his work.


-- 
Anny Ballardini
http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html
I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing
star!
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From jbalizsprince at googlemail.com  Sun Oct 12 13:01:23 2008
From: jbalizsprince at googlemail.com (Judy Prince)
Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2008 13:01:23 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] Paul Engle from the Writer's Almanac
In-Reply-To: <4b65c2d70810120943o74d0e7f2sdf0b15a4652f9e28@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4b65c2d70810120943o74d0e7f2sdf0b15a4652f9e28@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7db1d01b0810121001i22185e41x91b350fd2c67597c@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks so much for this, Anny.  What a scout for talent he was---and energy
for helping them along!
Best,

Judy

2008/10/12 Anny Ballardini <anny.ballardini at gmail.com>

>
>  It's the birthday of the poet *Paul Engle<http://www.elabs7.com/c.html?rtr=on&s=fj6,c2vl,dv,ixjr,4g65,3hrs,fxvj#Biographical%20Note>
> *, born in Cedar Rapids, Iowa, in 1908. He joined the faculty of the
> University of Iowa and in 1941 took over as director of the Iowa Writers'
> Workshop, the first program in the country to offer an M.F.A. in Creative
> Writing. He was the director for 24 years, and he shaped the program, raised
> millions of dollars, and made it into a model for similar M.F.A. programs.
> He convinced lots of famous writers to move to Iowa City and serve as
> faculty members, writers like Robert Lowell, John Berryman, and Kurt
> Vonnegut. And he also convinced many bright young students to come,
> including Flannery O'Connor, Philip Levine, Donald Justice, and Robert Bly.
> He died in 1991 in an airport, on the way to accept an award for his work.
>
>
> --
> Anny Ballardini
> http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
> http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
> http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html
> I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing
> star!
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
>
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From Opus40-01 at opus40.org  Sun Oct 12 13:45:24 2008
From: Opus40-01 at opus40.org (TheOldMole)
Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2008 13:45:24 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] Paul Engle from the Writer's Almanac
In-Reply-To: <4b65c2d70810120943o74d0e7f2sdf0b15a4652f9e28@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4b65c2d70810120943o74d0e7f2sdf0b15a4652f9e28@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <48F237B4.9040805@opus40.org>

A memory of Paul Engle, a great man and a shrewd man, with a touch of 
Casey Stengel to him. Tod Perry and I had both been trying to track him 
down for financial aid for a while, and we finally both cornered him, so 
he said what the heck, he had time now, why didn't we both come in. We 
did, and he managed, in the space of about 15 minutes to confuse "Tad" 
and "Tod," mix our stories and our needs up, and leave us no more 
enlightened on our financial situation, and not even sure between the 
two of us as to who was which.

Anny Ballardini wrote:
>
> 	
>
> It's the birthday of the poet *Paul Engle 
> <http://www.elabs7.com/c.html?rtr=on&s=fj6,c2vl,dv,ixjr,4g65,3hrs,fxvj#Biographical%20Note>*, 
> born in Cedar Rapids, Iowa, in 1908. He joined the faculty of the 
> University of Iowa and in 1941 took over as director of the Iowa 
> Writers' Workshop, the first program in the country to offer an M.F.A. 
> in Creative Writing. He was the director for 24 years, and he shaped 
> the program, raised millions of dollars, and made it into a model for 
> similar M.F.A. programs. He convinced lots of famous writers to move 
> to Iowa City and serve as faculty members, writers like Robert Lowell, 
> John Berryman, and Kurt Vonnegut. And he also convinced many bright 
> young students to come, including Flannery O'Connor, Philip Levine, 
> Donald Justice, and Robert Bly. He died in 1991 in an airport, on the 
> way to accept an award for his work.
>
>
>
> -- 
> Anny Ballardini
> http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
> http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
> http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html
> I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a 
> dancing star!
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>   

-- 
Tad Richards
http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/
http://opusforty.blogspot.com/

Don't forget to order your copy of FILM NOIR!
http://stores.lulu.com/store.php?fAcctID=2712239



From anny.ballardini at gmail.com  Sun Oct 12 13:50:43 2008
From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2008 19:50:43 +0200
Subject: [New-Poetry] Paul Engle from the Writer's Almanac
In-Reply-To: <48F237B4.9040805@opus40.org>
References: <4b65c2d70810120943o74d0e7f2sdf0b15a4652f9e28@mail.gmail.com>
	<48F237B4.9040805@opus40.org>
Message-ID: <4b65c2d70810121050u6cbc4f1dmc6e7ecfd28bd8ca5@mail.gmail.com>

That's a nice story, and a tad different from the official one that wants
him to be a hero.

On Sun, Oct 12, 2008 at 7:45 PM, TheOldMole <Opus40-01 at opus40.org> wrote:

> A memory of Paul Engle, a great man and a shrewd man, with a touch of Casey
> Stengel to him. Tod Perry and I had both been trying to track him down for
> financial aid for a while, and we finally both cornered him, so he said what
> the heck, he had time now, why didn't we both come in. We did, and he
> managed, in the space of about 15 minutes to confuse "Tad" and "Tod," mix
> our stories and our needs up, and leave us no more enlightened on our
> financial situation, and not even sure between the two of us as to who was
> which.
>
> Anny Ballardini wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>
>> It's the birthday of the poet *Paul Engle <
>> http://www.elabs7.com/c.html?rtr=on&s=fj6,c2vl,dv,ixjr,4g65,3hrs,fxvj#Biographical%20Note>*,
>> born in Cedar Rapids, Iowa, in 1908. He joined the faculty of the University
>> of Iowa and in 1941 took over as director of the Iowa Writers' Workshop, the
>> first program in the country to offer an M.F.A. in Creative Writing. He was
>> the director for 24 years, and he shaped the program, raised millions of
>> dollars, and made it into a model for similar M.F.A. programs. He convinced
>> lots of famous writers to move to Iowa City and serve as faculty members,
>> writers like Robert Lowell, John Berryman, and Kurt Vonnegut. And he also
>> convinced many bright young students to come, including Flannery O'Connor,
>> Philip Levine, Donald Justice, and Robert Bly. He died in 1991 in an
>> airport, on the way to accept an award for his work.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Anny Ballardini
>> http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
>> http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
>> http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html
>> I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing
>> star!
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> New-Poetry mailing list
>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>>
>>
>
> --
> Tad Richards
> http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/
> http://opusforty.blogspot.com/
>
> Don't forget to order your copy of FILM NOIR!
> http://stores.lulu.com/store.php?fAcctID=2712239
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>



-- 
Anny Ballardini
http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html
I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing
star!
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From Opus40-01 at opus40.org  Sun Oct 12 14:14:31 2008
From: Opus40-01 at opus40.org (TheOldMole)
Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2008 14:14:31 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] Paul Engle from the Writer's Almanac
In-Reply-To: <4b65c2d70810121050u6cbc4f1dmc6e7ecfd28bd8ca5@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4b65c2d70810120943o74d0e7f2sdf0b15a4652f9e28@mail.gmail.com>	<48F237B4.9040805@opus40.org>
	<4b65c2d70810121050u6cbc4f1dmc6e7ecfd28bd8ca5@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <48F23E87.6050101@opus40.org>

He was a hero (or an enemy of poetry, if you want to look at it that 
way). But he was a character, too, and more than a little Machiavellian.

Anny Ballardini wrote:
> That's a nice story, and a tad different from the official one that 
> wants him to be a hero.
>
> On Sun, Oct 12, 2008 at 7:45 PM, TheOldMole <Opus40-01 at opus40.org 
> <mailto:Opus40-01 at opus40.org>> wrote:
>
>     A memory of Paul Engle, a great man and a shrewd man, with a touch
>     of Casey Stengel to him. Tod Perry and I had both been trying to
>     track him down for financial aid for a while, and we finally both
>     cornered him, so he said what the heck, he had time now, why
>     didn't we both come in. We did, and he managed, in the space of
>     about 15 minutes to confuse "Tad" and "Tod," mix our stories and
>     our needs up, and leave us no more enlightened on our financial
>     situation, and not even sure between the two of us as to who was
>     which.
>
>     Anny Ballardini wrote:
>
>
>                
>
>         It's the birthday of the poet *Paul Engle
>         <http://www.elabs7.com/c.html?rtr=on&s=fj6,c2vl,dv,ixjr,4g65,3hrs,fxvj#Biographical%20Note
>         <http://www.elabs7.com/c.html?rtr=on&s=fj6,c2vl,dv,ixjr,4g65,3hrs,fxvj#Biographical%20Note>>*,
>         born in Cedar Rapids, Iowa, in 1908. He joined the faculty of
>         the University of Iowa and in 1941 took over as director of
>         the Iowa Writers' Workshop, the first program in the country
>         to offer an M.F.A. in Creative Writing. He was the director
>         for 24 years, and he shaped the program, raised millions of
>         dollars, and made it into a model for similar M.F.A. programs.
>         He convinced lots of famous writers to move to Iowa City and
>         serve as faculty members, writers like Robert Lowell, John
>         Berryman, and Kurt Vonnegut. And he also convinced many bright
>         young students to come, including Flannery O'Connor, Philip
>         Levine, Donald Justice, and Robert Bly. He died in 1991 in an
>         airport, on the way to accept an award for his work.
>
>
>
>
>         -- 
>         Anny Ballardini
>         http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
>         http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
>         http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html
>         I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to
>         a dancing star!
>
>         ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
>         _______________________________________________
>         New-Poetry mailing list
>         New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu <mailto:New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
>         http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>          
>
>
>     -- 
>     Tad Richards
>     http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/
>     http://opusforty.blogspot.com/
>
>     Don't forget to order your copy of FILM NOIR!
>     http://stores.lulu.com/store.php?fAcctID=2712239
>
>
>     _______________________________________________
>     New-Poetry mailing list
>     New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu <mailto:New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
>     http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
>
>
>
> -- 
> Anny Ballardini
> http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
> http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
> http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html
> I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a 
> dancing star!
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>   

-- 
Tad Richards
http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/
http://opusforty.blogspot.com/

Don't forget to order your copy of FILM NOIR!
http://stores.lulu.com/store.php?fAcctID=2712239



From JforJames at aol.com  Sun Oct 12 18:02:08 2008
From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2008 18:02:08 EDT
Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: Poem of the Week- Brigit Pegeen Kelly
Message-ID: <c48.1fcf83be.3623cde0@aol.com>


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Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2008 16:11:43 -0500
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From JforJames at aol.com  Sun Oct 12 18:10:00 2008
From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2008 18:10:00 EDT
Subject: [New-Poetry] Nobelly Neglected
Message-ID: <c8d.31418617.3623cfb8@aol.com>

_http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/12/weekinreview/12orr.html_ 
(http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/12/weekinreview/12orr.html) 
 
While American fiction and theater can boast of at least a few Nobel  winners 
(nine, to be precise), no American poet has won the Nobel Prize in  
Literature. Not one, in more than 100 years. 
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From jbalizsprince at googlemail.com  Sun Oct 12 18:21:30 2008
From: jbalizsprince at googlemail.com (Judy Prince)
Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2008 18:21:30 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] Nobelly Neglected
In-Reply-To: <c8d.31418617.3623cfb8@aol.com>
References: <c8d.31418617.3623cfb8@aol.com>
Message-ID: <7db1d01b0810121521nde0b664we2d70ef7f51fb5fa@mail.gmail.com>

My belly feels neglected, tho.  Hence, some-belly's are neglected.
Judy

2008/10/12 <JforJames at aol.com>

>  http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/12/weekinreview/12orr.html
>
> While American fiction and theater can boast of at least a few Nobel
> winners (nine, to be precise), no American poet has won the Nobel Prize in
> Literature. Not one, in more than 100 years.
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
> New *MapQuest Local* shows what's happening at your destination. Dining,
> Movies, Events, News & more. Try it out!
> <http://local.mapquest.com/?ncid=emlcntnew00000002>
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
>
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From Edward.Byrne at valpo.edu  Mon Oct 13 01:30:23 2008
From: Edward.Byrne at valpo.edu (Edward Byrne)
Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2008 00:30:23 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] New Issue of Valparaiso Poetry Review
Message-ID: <48F2969E.7112.006E.0@valpo.edu>

As Valparaiso Poetry Review begins its tenth year of publication, I am
pleased to announce today?s release of Volume X, Number 1, VPR?s
largest issue yet. I invite you to check it out and enjoy the poems,
reviews, essay, interview, and art commentary included:
http://edwardbyrne.blogspot.com/2008/10/vpr-fallwinter-2008-2009-issue.html



--------------------------------------------------

Edward Byrne
Department of English
322 Huegli Hall
Valparaiso University
Valparaiso, IN 46383-6493

E-mail: edward.byrne at valpo.edu
Home Page:
http://www.valpo.edu/home/faculty/ebyrne/homepage/
Blog:
http://edwardbyrne.blogspot.com/

Editor, Valparaiso Poetry Review
E-mail: vpr at valpo.edu
VPR Web Page: http://www.valpo.edu/vpr/
Office Phone: (219) 464-5278
Fax: (219) 464-5511

--------------------------------------------------



From anny.ballardini at gmail.com  Mon Oct 13 03:07:54 2008
From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2008 09:07:54 +0200
Subject: [New-Poetry] Nobelly Neglected
In-Reply-To: <7db1d01b0810121521nde0b664we2d70ef7f51fb5fa@mail.gmail.com>
References: <c8d.31418617.3623cfb8@aol.com>
	<7db1d01b0810121521nde0b664we2d70ef7f51fb5fa@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4b65c2d70810130007l4d5763ack3c86ebea13503353@mail.gmail.com>

You already know what I think, i.e. the States welcome everybody, and Europe
promotes its own. It has been the same story since ever. Especially with
movies.


On Mon, Oct 13, 2008 at 12:21 AM, Judy Prince
<jbalizsprince at googlemail.com>wrote:

> My belly feels neglected, tho.  Hence, some-belly's are neglected.
> Judy
>
> 2008/10/12 <JforJames at aol.com>
>
>>  http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/12/weekinreview/12orr.html
>>
>> While American fiction and theater can boast of at least a few Nobel
>> winners (nine, to be precise), no American poet has won the Nobel Prize in
>> Literature. Not one, in more than 100 years.
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>> New *MapQuest Local* shows what's happening at your destination. Dining,
>> Movies, Events, News & more. Try it out!
>> <http://local.mapquest.com/?ncid=emlcntnew00000002>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> New-Poetry mailing list
>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
>


-- 
Anny Ballardini
http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html
I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing
star!
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From JforJames at aol.com  Mon Oct 13 09:42:53 2008
From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2008 09:42:53 EDT
Subject: [New-Poetry] Levitsky selected as CPCW fellow
Message-ID: <c02.477b5c6d.3624aa5d@aol.com>

_http://newpagesblog.blogspot.com/2008/10/cpcw-2008-fellow-recipient-rachel.ht
ml_ 
(http://newpagesblog.blogspot.com/2008/10/cpcw-2008-fellow-recipient-rachel.html) 
 
The Center for Programs in Contemporary Writing Fellow in Poetics &  Poetic 
Practice has announced Rachel Levitsky as this year's recipient. She will  
teach a seminar called "Writing Practice of the Avant-Garde or: Avant-Garde  
Hybrid Writing" and at the Kelly Writers House will host the visits of several  
writers associated with the course.
 
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From JforJames at aol.com  Mon Oct 13 14:09:28 2008
From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2008 14:09:28 EDT
Subject: [New-Poetry] WorldPo: Big Chinese Poetry Anthology
Message-ID: <c79.4440ef8f.3624e8d8@aol.com>

_http://www.brooklynrail.org/2008/10/books/anthology-the-task-of-the-translato
r-poet_ 
(http://www.brooklynrail.org/2008/10/books/anthology-the-task-of-the-translator-poet) 
 
ANTHOLOGY: The Task of the Translator-Poet
by Ben  Mirov

David Hinton, Classic Chinese Poetry: An Anthology (Farrar,  Straus & Giroux, 
2008)
 
To get some idea of the size and scope of David Hinton?s Classic Chinese  
Poetry: An Anthology, imagine you are Donald Allen, editor of the seminal New  
American Poetry 1945-1960. Next, imagine the era of ?New American Poetry? 
begins  somewhere around 1500 BCE and finishes around 1200 CE, and is going to 
include  all the major poets from that time span.

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From jforjames at aol.com  Tue Oct 14 09:19:39 2008
From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2008 09:19:39 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] Stafford awarded $20,000
Message-ID: <8CAFC16A5AF5BF0-146C-1BE8@webmail-da04.sysops.aol.com>


http://news.opb.org/article/3279-poet-stafford-honored-20000-award/


The Regional Arts & Culture Council just honored him with its highest individual honor -- and an accompanying $20,000 award.


Stafford directs the NW Writing Institute at Lewis & Clark College. 

He has written a dozen books of poetry and prose, including Early Morning

(audio files)
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From halvard at earthlink.net  Tue Oct 14 10:35:51 2008
From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson)
Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2008 09:35:51 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Stafford awarded $20,000
In-Reply-To: <8CAFC16A5AF5BF0-146C-1BE8@webmail-da04.sysops.aol.com>
References: <8CAFC16A5AF5BF0-146C-1BE8@webmail-da04.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <CC143056-E8BF-406E-A154-DF37E300E793@earthlink.net>

Hmm, no first name. A la Jewel and Trickster?

Hal

McCain / Palin -- Just say thanks but no thanks.
They're a bridge to nowhere.

Halvard Johnson
================
halvard at earthlink.net
halvard at gmail.com
http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html
http://entropyandme.blogspot.com
http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com
http://www.hamiltonstone.org
http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html



On Oct 14, 2008, at 8:19 AM, JforJames at aol.com wrote:

> http://news.opb.org/article/3279-poet-stafford-honored-20000-award/
>
> The Regional Arts & Culture Council just honored him with its  
> highest individual honor -- and an accompanying $20,000 award.
>
> Stafford directs the NW Writing Institute at Lewis & Clark College.
> He has written a dozen books of poetry and prose, including Early  
> Morning
>
> (audio files)
>
> McCain or Obama? Stay updated on coverage of the Presidential race  
> while you browse - Download Now!
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry

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From jforjames at aol.com  Tue Oct 14 17:12:40 2008
From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2008 17:12:40 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] Silver Age of Russian Poetry
Message-ID: <8CAFC58B9D205E9-1024-293@WEBMAIL-DF09.sysops.aol.com>


http://www.russia-ic.com/culture_art/literature/838/


With the end of the 19th century ?the Golden Age? of Russian literature finished giving place to a crucial stage that later went down into history under the beautiful name of the Silver Age. It engendered a great flight of Russian culture, at the same time becoming a beginning of its tragic fall down. The beginning of the Silver Age is usually referred to the 1890s, illuminated with poems by Valery Bryusov, Innokenty Annensky, Konstantin Balmont and other splendid poets. 


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From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net  Tue Oct 14 18:56:07 2008
From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman)
Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2008 17:56:07 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Stafford awarded $20,000
In-Reply-To: <CC143056-E8BF-406E-A154-DF37E300E793@earthlink.net>
References: <8CAFC16A5AF5BF0-146C-1BE8@webmail-da04.sysops.aol.com>
	<CC143056-E8BF-406E-A154-DF37E300E793@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <48F52387.7050901@nut-n-but.net>

Halvard Johnson wrote:
> Hmm, no first name. A la Jewel and Trickster?
>
> Hal
They probably figure William Stafford is too well known for his first 
name to be used.  In any case, I applaud them: it's about time one of 
these things went to a literally dead poet.

--Bob G.



From anny.ballardini at gmail.com  Wed Oct 15 01:41:35 2008
From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2008 07:41:35 +0200
Subject: [New-Poetry] Stafford awarded $20,000
In-Reply-To: <48F52387.7050901@nut-n-but.net>
References: <8CAFC16A5AF5BF0-146C-1BE8@webmail-da04.sysops.aol.com>
	<CC143056-E8BF-406E-A154-DF37E300E793@earthlink.net>
	<48F52387.7050901@nut-n-but.net>
Message-ID: <4b65c2d70810142241p57651a9dja8bd87fba1d2e27f@mail.gmail.com>

TO 'A LITERALLY DEAD POET'

That's a good one Bob, while getting worse you are improving.

On Wed, Oct 15, 2008 at 12:56 AM, Bob Grumman <bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net>wrote:

> Halvard Johnson wrote:
>
>> Hmm, no first name. A la Jewel and Trickster?
>>
>> Hal
>>
> They probably figure William Stafford is too well known for his first name
> to be used.  In any case, I applaud them: it's about time one of these
> things went to a literally dead poet.
>
> --Bob G.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>



-- 
Anny Ballardini
http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html
I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing
star!
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From suelin6787 at charter.net  Wed Oct 15 07:49:49 2008
From: suelin6787 at charter.net (Linda Sue Grimes)
Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2008 06:49:49 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Stafford awarded $20,000
References: <8CAFC16A5AF5BF0-146C-1BE8@webmail-da04.sysops.aol.com><CC143056-E8BF-406E-A154-DF37E300E793@earthlink.net>
	<48F52387.7050901@nut-n-but.net>
Message-ID: <EBB1CC0AA2C146538290108E471EF4DB@LindaSue>

It's Kim Stafford, William Stafford's son...

lsg
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Bob Grumman 
  To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &amp;Views 
  Sent: Tuesday, October 14, 2008 5:56 PM
  Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Stafford awarded $20,000


  Halvard Johnson wrote:
  > Hmm, no first name. A la Jewel and Trickster?
  >
  > Hal
  They probably figure William Stafford is too well known for his first 
  name to be used.  In any case, I applaud them: it's about time one of 
  these things went to a literally dead poet.

  --Bob G.

  _______________________________________________
  New-Poetry mailing list
  New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
  http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
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From jforjames at aol.com  Wed Oct 15 09:37:11 2008
From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2008 09:37:11 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] Lorca songs
Message-ID: <8CAFCE2432321BD-8A0-A4C@FWM-D03.sysops.aol.com>


Making music from the poetry of an icon 

http://new.edp24.co.uk/content/WhatsOn/story.aspx?brand=EDPOnline&category=WhatsOn&tBrand=EDPOnline&tCategory=WhatsOn&itemid=NOED15%20Oct%202008%2009%3A57%3A12%3A270


KEIRON PIM

15 October 2008

?
Federico Garcia Lorca.? 
Spanish fascists shot Federico Garcia Lorca in August 1936 and dumped his body in an unmarked grave. 

In doing so they created an icon, as the already renowned young poet and playwright became a symbol of the indiscriminate crushing of opposition that accompanied General Franco's seizure of power from a democratically elected socialist government. 


The regime banned his writing from publication in Spain but could not prevent its popularity gradually spreading worldwide. Now it is finding yet more admirers through being set to music by a British duo comprising a highly acclaimed singer-songwriter and double bassist.


Keith James and bassist Rick Foot...

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From anny.ballardini at gmail.com  Wed Oct 15 10:30:35 2008
From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2008 16:30:35 +0200
Subject: [New-Poetry] Lorca songs
In-Reply-To: <8CAFCE2432321BD-8A0-A4C@FWM-D03.sysops.aol.com>
References: <8CAFCE2432321BD-8A0-A4C@FWM-D03.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <4b65c2d70810150730w4ac22877m8a3a6ad72368f2e5@mail.gmail.com>

A good book on the Spanish history behind the facts is Homage to Catalonia
by George Orwell.

On Wed, Oct 15, 2008 at 3:37 PM, <jforjames at aol.com> wrote:

> Making music from the poetry of an icon
>
> http://new.edp24.co.uk/content/WhatsOn/story.aspx?brand=EDPOnline&category=WhatsOn&tBrand=EDPOnline&tCategory=WhatsOn&itemid=NOED15%20Oct%202008%2009%3A57%3A12%3A270
>
> KEIRON PIM
> 15 October 2008
>
> Federico Garcia Lorca.
> Spanish fascists shot Federico Garcia Lorca in August 1936 and dumped his
> body in an unmarked grave.
> In doing so they created an icon, as the already renowned young poet and
> playwright became a symbol of the indiscriminate crushing of opposition that
> accompanied General Franco's seizure of power from a democratically elected
> socialist government.
>
> The regime banned his writing from publication in Spain but could not
> prevent its popularity gradually spreading worldwide. Now it is finding yet
> more admirers through being set to music by a British duo comprising a
> highly acclaimed singer-songwriter and double bassist.
>
> Keith James and bassist Rick Foot...
>
> ------------------------------
> McCain or Obama? Stay updated on coverage of the Presidential race while
> you browse - Download Now!<http://toolbar.aol.com/elections/download.html?ncid=emlweusdown00000002>
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
>


-- 
Anny Ballardini
http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html
I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing
star!
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From halvard at earthlink.net  Wed Oct 15 14:27:44 2008
From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson)
Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2008 13:27:44 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Stafford awarded $20,000
In-Reply-To: <EBB1CC0AA2C146538290108E471EF4DB@LindaSue>
References: <8CAFC16A5AF5BF0-146C-1BE8@webmail-da04.sysops.aol.com><CC143056-E8BF-406E-A154-DF37E300E793@earthlink.net>
	<48F52387.7050901@nut-n-but.net>
	<EBB1CC0AA2C146538290108E471EF4DB@LindaSue>
Message-ID: <CE1393F7-1C82-4A03-B584-D82549EE8AE1@earthlink.net>

Ah, thanks, Linda. Some info at last.

Hal

McCain / Palin -- Just say thanks but no thanks.
They're a bridge to nowhere.

Halvard Johnson
================
halvard at earthlink.net
halvard at gmail.com
http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html
http://entropyandme.blogspot.com
http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com
http://www.hamiltonstone.org
http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html



On Oct 15, 2008, at 6:49 AM, Linda Sue Grimes wrote:

> It's Kim Stafford, William Stafford's son...
>
> lsg
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Bob Grumman
> To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &amp;Views
> Sent: Tuesday, October 14, 2008 5:56 PM
> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Stafford awarded $20,000
>
> Halvard Johnson wrote:
> > Hmm, no first name. A la Jewel and Trickster?
> >
> > Hal
> They probably figure William Stafford is too well known for his first
> name to be used.  In any case, I applaud them: it's about time one of
> these things went to a literally dead poet.
>
> --Bob G.
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry

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From alexdickow9 at yahoo.com  Wed Oct 15 15:01:14 2008
From: alexdickow9 at yahoo.com (Alexander Dickow)
Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2008 12:01:14 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [New-Poetry] Silver Age of Russian Poetry
In-Reply-To: <200810151600.m9FG04nK015339@wiz.cath.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <338841.44944.qm@web35507.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Jim,
Thanks for the article. Now all we need is the poetry! Innokenty Annensky especially: he's an old favorite of mine, and *severely* undertranslated: everyone on the list should immediately go read some Annensky (along with the other poets mentioned, for that matter). I think I'd consider him among the best second-generation symbolists in the world, and the Silver Age in Russia is up there with the top-ten most amazing poetic moments in history, IMnotsohumbleO....
Amicalement,
Alex



From jforjames at aol.com  Thu Oct 16 09:32:48 2008
From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2008 09:32:48 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] 2008 Nat'l Book Award Nominees
Message-ID: <8CAFDAAD084C08C-350-AF@WEBMAIL-DG13.sim.aol.com>


http://www.nationalbook.org/nba2008.html

Frank Bidart, Watching the Spring Festival (Farrar, Straus & Giroux)
Mark Doty, Fire to Fire: New and Collected Poems (HarperCollins)
Reginald Gibbons, Creatures of a Day (Louisiana State University Press)
Richard Howard, Without Saying (Turtle Point Press)
Patricia Smith, Blood Dazzler (Coffee House Press)


Poetry Judges: Robert Pinsky (chair), Mary Jo Bang, Kimiko Hahn, 
Tony Hoagland, Marilyn Nelson. 


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From anny.ballardini at gmail.com  Thu Oct 16 10:47:00 2008
From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2008 16:47:00 +0200
Subject: [New-Poetry] Kooser and Lenfestey
Message-ID: <4b65c2d70810160747o5458dbb2m91087a79fe9d7efe@mail.gmail.com>

American Life in Poetry: Column 186

BY TED KOOSER, U.S. POET LAUREATE, 2004-2006

James Lenfestey:

Daughter

A daughter is not a passing cloud, but permanent,
holding earth and sky together with her shadow.
She sleeps upstairs like mystery in a story,
blowing leaves down the stairs, then cold air, then warm.
We who at sixty should know everything, know nothing.
We become dull and disoriented by uncertain weather.
We kneel, palms together, before this blossoming altar.


American Life in Poetry is made possible by The Poetry Foundation
(www.poetryfoundation.org), publisher of Poetry magazine. It is also
supported by the Department of English at the University of
Nebraska-Lincoln. Poem copyright (c) 2007 by James P. Lenfestey from
his most recent book of poetry, "A Cartload of Scrolls," Holy Cow!
Press, 2007. Reprinted by permission of the author. Introduction
copyright (c) 2008 by The Poetry Foundation.  The introduction's
author, Ted Kooser, served as United States Poet Laureate Consultant
in Poetry to the Library of Congress from 2004-2006.  We do not accept
unsolicited manuscripts.



-- 
Anny Ballardini
http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html
I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing
star!
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From anny.ballardini at gmail.com  Thu Oct 16 12:01:19 2008
From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2008 18:01:19 +0200
Subject: [New-Poetry] Adieu Queen Elizabeth 2
Message-ID: <4b65c2d70810160901y6726d459n9b9f11789c1a816e@mail.gmail.com>

 Farewell Queen Elizabeth 2

My heartfelt Adieu to Queen Elizabeth 2, part of my personal story. My
father did not like airplanes and there were so many ships for our numerous
trips from Genova's harbor to New York's Port. On one trip Queen Elizabeth 1
had technical problems, and even if we were close to the States, the ship
veered back (I can still remember the disaster with glasses broken on the
floor, and people sliding from one side to the other, it was pitch dark in
the evening...). Probably to buy the spare parts in Italy at a more
convenient price. Passengers were offered to choose between a flight back or
another long transatlantic trip with Queen Elizabeth 2. My father,
logically, chose the Queen! That is how we ended up spending almost an
entire month on the Atlantic Ocean. I have always loved the Ocean.

>From today's The New York
Times<http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/17/nyregion/17ship.html?_r=1&hp&oref=slogin>
:


With shrill blasts from its three Tyfon whistles and a 39-foot-long
paying-off pennant streaming from the mast ? a foot for each year at sea ?
that traditionally marks the end of a ship's commission, the Queen Elizabeth
2 (only the actual monarchs warrant Roman numerals, not the ships named for
royalty) split the predawn darkness to begin a day of festivities and
souvenir photos by the Statue of Liberty and berthed at Pier 90 at 53d
Street on the Hudson River, where the ship tied up around 6 a.m.

As she entered the harbor, she was trailed by the grander Queen Mary 2. The
two queens paraded to the Statue of Liberty before the Queen Mary 2 split
off to return to its dockage at the Brooklyn Cruise Terminal.


*******************

-- 
Anny Ballardini
http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html
I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing
star!
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From jforjames at aol.com  Thu Oct 16 19:04:25 2008
From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2008 19:04:25 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] Why can't we leave Plath + Hughes alone?
Message-ID: <8CAFDFAAB6846E6-320-2806@WEBMAIL-DY19.sysops.aol.com>


http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/booksblog/2008/oct/16/hughes-plath-archive-myth


The news that the British Library has bought an extensive archive of
Ted Hughes's s letters, drafts, and diaries, was heralded by curators this week as "critical to the study of 20th century poetry". If only that was the case. It seems obvious that the trawling of these letters for new morsels of private information, and the fresh batch of articles on Hughes's life they'll no doubt spawn, will have little, if anything, to do with poetry, and everything to do with gossip. 

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From halvard at earthlink.net  Thu Oct 16 19:10:15 2008
From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson)
Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2008 18:10:15 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Why can't we leave Plath + Hughes alone?
In-Reply-To: <8CAFDFAAB6846E6-320-2806@WEBMAIL-DY19.sysops.aol.com>
References: <8CAFDFAAB6846E6-320-2806@WEBMAIL-DY19.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <9185AA54-3AB9-4813-8BDA-73C31D268753@earthlink.net>

I'm not bothering them now, never have and never will.

Hal

McCain / Palin -- Just say thanks but no thanks.
They're a bridge to nowhere.

Halvard Johnson
================
halvard at earthlink.net
halvard at gmail.com
http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html
http://entropyandme.blogspot.com
http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com
http://www.hamiltonstone.org
http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html



On Oct 16, 2008, at 6:04 PM, JforJames at aol.com wrote:

> http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/booksblog/2008/oct/16/hughes-plath-archive-myth
>
> The news that the British Library has bought an extensive archive of
> Ted Hughes's s letters, drafts, and diaries, was heralded by  
> curators this week as "critical to the study of 20th century  
> poetry". If only that was the case. It seems obvious that the  
> trawling of these letters for new morsels of private information,  
> and the fresh batch of articles on Hughes's life they'll no doubt  
> spawn, will have little, if anything, to do with poetry, and  
> everything to do with gossip.
>
> McCain or Obama? Stay updated on coverage of the Presidential race  
> while you browse - Download Now!
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry

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From Rsgwynn1 at cs.com  Thu Oct 16 19:11:22 2008
From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com (Rsgwynn1 at cs.com)
Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2008 19:11:22 EDT
Subject: [New-Poetry] Why can't we leave Plath + Hughes alone?
Message-ID: <bf3.42c19a03.3629241a@cs.com>

In a message dated 10/16/2008 6:05:01 PM Central Daylight Time, 
jforjames at aol.com writes: 
> 
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/booksblog/2008/oct/16/hughes-plath-archive-myth
>  
> The news that the British Library has bought an extensive archive of
> Ted Hughes's s letters, drafts, and diaries, was heralded by curators this 
> week as "critical to the study of 20th century poetry". If only that was the 
> case. It seems obvious that the trawling of these letters for new morsels of 
> private information, and the fresh batch of articles on Hughes's life they'll 
> no doubt spawn, will have little, if anything, to do with poetry, and 
> everything to do with gossip. 
> 
> 
> 
> 
Good question.  Why is nobody especially eager to purchase my own letters, 
drafts, and diaries?  I could tell many secrets.


**************
New MapQuest Local 
shows what's happening at your destination.  Dining, Movies, Events, News &amp; 
more. Try it out (http://local.mapquest.com/?ncid=emlcntnew00000002)
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From Opus40-01 at opus40.org  Thu Oct 16 20:26:28 2008
From: Opus40-01 at opus40.org (TheOldMole)
Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2008 20:26:28 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] Why can't we leave Plath + Hughes alone?
In-Reply-To: <bf3.42c19a03.3629241a@cs.com>
References: <bf3.42c19a03.3629241a@cs.com>
Message-ID: <48F7DBB4.4040403@opus40.org>

Maybe we could arrange a barter.

Rsgwynn1 at cs.com wrote:
> In a message dated 10/16/2008 6:05:01 PM Central Daylight Time, 
> jforjames at aol.com writes:
>>
>> http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/booksblog/2008/oct/16/hughes-plath-archive-myth
>>
>> The news that the British Library has bought an extensive archive of
>> Ted Hughes's s letters, drafts, and diaries, was heralded by curators 
>> this week as "critical to the study of 20th century poetry". If only 
>> that was the case. It seems obvious that the trawling of these 
>> letters for new morsels of private information, and the fresh batch 
>> of articles on Hughes's life they'll no doubt spawn, will have 
>> little, if anything, to do with poetry, and everything to do with 
>> gossip.
>>
>>
>>
>
> Good question.  Why is nobody especially eager to purchase my own 
> letters, drafts, and diaries?  I could tell many secrets.
>
>
> **************
> New MapQuest Local shows what's happening at your destination. Dining, 
> Movies, Events, News & more. Try it out 
> (http://local.mapquest.com/?ncid=emlcntnew00000002)
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry

-- 
Tad Richards
http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/
http://opusforty.blogspot.com/

Don't forget to order your copy of FILM NOIR!
http://stores.lulu.com/store.php?fAcctID=2712239



From Rsgwynn1 at cs.com  Fri Oct 17 00:17:07 2008
From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com (Rsgwynn1 at cs.com)
Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2008 00:17:07 EDT
Subject: [New-Poetry] Why can't we leave Plath + Hughes alone?
Message-ID: <bcd.3c50e8d0.36296bc3@cs.com>

In a message dated 10/16/2008 7:26:54 PM Central Daylight Time, 
Opus40-01 at opus40.org writes: 
> 
> 
> Maybe we could arrange a barter.
Or a barber?


**************
New MapQuest Local shows what's happening at your 
destination.  Dining, Movies, Events, News &amp; more. Try it out 
(http://local.mapquest.com/?ncid=emlcntnew00000002)
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From jbalizsprince at googlemail.com  Fri Oct 17 08:57:15 2008
From: jbalizsprince at googlemail.com (Judy Prince)
Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2008 08:57:15 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] Why can't we leave Plath + Hughes alone?
In-Reply-To: <bf3.42c19a03.3629241a@cs.com>
References: <bf3.42c19a03.3629241a@cs.com>
Message-ID: <7db1d01b0810170557q599ea1e6n496d5b885b501a3d@mail.gmail.com>

Secrets, fine, Sam, but incriminating photos even better.  We are, after
all, in the age of YouTube.
yr srvt in USAmerica

Judy

2008/10/16 <Rsgwynn1 at cs.com>

> In a message dated 10/16/2008 6:05:01 PM Central Daylight Time,
> jforjames at aol.com writes:
>
>
>
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/booksblog/2008/oct/16/hughes-plath-archive-myth
>
> The news that the British Library has bought an extensive archive of
> Ted Hughes's s letters, drafts, and diaries, was heralded by curators this
> week as "critical to the study of 20th century poetry". If only that was the
> case. It seems obvious that the trawling of these letters for new morsels of
> private information, and the fresh batch of articles on Hughes's life
> they'll no doubt spawn, will have little, if anything, to do with poetry,
> and everything to do with gossip.
>
>
>
>
> Good question.  Why is nobody especially eager to purchase my own letters,
> drafts, and diaries?  I could tell many secrets.
>
>
> **************
> New MapQuest Local shows what's happening at your destination. Dining,
> Movies, Events, News & more. Try it out (
> http://local.mapquest.com/?ncid=emlcntnew00000002)
> _______________________________________________
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> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
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From almaginnes at aol.com  Fri Oct 17 14:53:40 2008
From: almaginnes at aol.com (almaginnes at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2008 14:53:40 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] Why can't we leave Plath + Hughes alone?
In-Reply-To: <bcd.3c50e8d0.36296bc3@cs.com>
References: <bcd.3c50e8d0.36296bc3@cs.com>
Message-ID: <8CAFEA0CE3A5264-920-1E3@MBLK-M31.sysops.aol.com>

I'd probably give them mine just to get all that crap out of the house.


-----Original Message-----
From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com
To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
Sent: Fri, 17 Oct 2008 12:17 am
Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Why can't we leave Plath + Hughes alone?


In a message dated 10/16/2008 7:26:54 PM Central Daylight Time, Opus40-01 at opus40.org writes: 



Maybe we could arrange a barter.

Or a barber?


**************
New MapQuest Local shows what's happening at your destination. Dining, Movies, Events, News & more. Try it out (http://local.mapquest.com/?ncid=emlcntnew00000002) 

_______________________________________________
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http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry




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From chris.lott at gmail.com  Sat Oct 18 10:30:42 2008
From: chris.lott at gmail.com (Chris Lott)
Date: Sat, 18 Oct 2008 06:30:42 -0800
Subject: [New-Poetry] Stafford awarded $20,000
In-Reply-To: <48F52387.7050901@nut-n-but.net>
References: <8CAFC16A5AF5BF0-146C-1BE8@webmail-da04.sysops.aol.com>
	<CC143056-E8BF-406E-A154-DF37E300E793@earthlink.net>
	<48F52387.7050901@nut-n-but.net>
Message-ID: <9b1b9dab0810180730o2dc5cd5dn74b38cb2ffbe9ef7@mail.gmail.com>

The second sentence of the article: "But Portland poet Kim Stafford is
the exception that proves the rule. "

Reading really IS a dying art! Or is this that google-age scanning
everyone talks about?

c

On Tue, Oct 14, 2008 at 14:56, Bob Grumman <bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net> wrote:
> Halvard Johnson wrote:
>>
>> Hmm, no first name. A la Jewel and Trickster?
>>
>> Hal
>
> They probably figure William Stafford is too well known for his first name
> to be used.  In any case, I applaud them: it's about time one of these
> things went to a literally dead poet.
>
> --Bob G.
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>



-- 
Chris Lott


From rog3r.day at gmail.com  Sat Oct 18 12:06:20 2008
From: rog3r.day at gmail.com (Roger Day)
Date: Sat, 18 Oct 2008 17:06:20 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] Stafford awarded $20,000
In-Reply-To: <9b1b9dab0810180730o2dc5cd5dn74b38cb2ffbe9ef7@mail.gmail.com>
References: <8CAFC16A5AF5BF0-146C-1BE8@webmail-da04.sysops.aol.com>
	<CC143056-E8BF-406E-A154-DF37E300E793@earthlink.net>
	<48F52387.7050901@nut-n-but.net>
	<9b1b9dab0810180730o2dc5cd5dn74b38cb2ffbe9ef7@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <fde503480810180906k42d23392j8f2111d643170c3a@mail.gmail.com>

Nobody RTFA. Nobody.

On Sat, Oct 18, 2008 at 3:30 PM, Chris Lott <chris.lott at gmail.com> wrote:
> The second sentence of the article: "But Portland poet Kim Stafford is
> the exception that proves the rule. "
>
> Reading really IS a dying art! Or is this that google-age scanning
> everyone talks about?
>
> c
>
> On Tue, Oct 14, 2008 at 14:56, Bob Grumman <bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net> wrote:
>> Halvard Johnson wrote:
>>>
>>> Hmm, no first name. A la Jewel and Trickster?
>>>
>>> Hal
>>
>> They probably figure William Stafford is too well known for his first name
>> to be used.  In any case, I applaud them: it's about time one of these
>> things went to a literally dead poet.
>>
>> --Bob G.
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> New-Poetry mailing list
>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Chris Lott
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>



-- 
My Stuff: http://www.badstep.net/
"I began to warm and chill
to objects and their fields"
Nick Cave & The Bad Seeds


From robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com  Sat Oct 18 12:21:38 2008
From: robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com (Robin Hamilton)
Date: Sat, 18 Oct 2008 17:21:38 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] Stafford awarded $20,000
In-Reply-To: <fde503480810180906k42d23392j8f2111d643170c3a@mail.gmail.com>
References: <8CAFC16A5AF5BF0-146C-1BE8@webmail-da04.sysops.aol.com><CC143056-E8BF-406E-A154-DF37E300E793@earthlink.net><48F52387.7050901@nut-n-but.net><9b1b9dab0810180730o2dc5cd5dn74b38cb2ffbe9ef7@mail.gmail.com>
	<fde503480810180906k42d23392j8f2111d643170c3a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BC20D9C47A764AFEA5FFF9A0955C90F3@RobinPC>

Roger Day writes:

> Nobody RTFA. Nobody.

        Reads the fuck anyway?

On the other hand, some of us are trying to discriminate between three 
poetic texts, all related to him and written in a six month period after 
Jack Sheppard was hanged, in 1724.

Who says the past is dead?

Sixteen-String Jack's blowen, Miss Roach, is still whining, in a broadside 
ballad published in the 1780s, that she really misses him.

As if!

            <g>

Mind you, it's a bit easier when you look that far back and all the texts 
are nice and calcified.

Nobodaddy 




From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net  Sat Oct 18 13:27:34 2008
From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman)
Date: Sat, 18 Oct 2008 12:27:34 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Stafford awarded $20,000
In-Reply-To: <9b1b9dab0810180730o2dc5cd5dn74b38cb2ffbe9ef7@mail.gmail.com>
References: <8CAFC16A5AF5BF0-146C-1BE8@webmail-da04.sysops.aol.com><CC143056-E8BF-406E-A154-DF37E300E793@earthlink.net><48F52387.
	7050901@nut-n-but.net>
	<9b1b9dab0810180730o2dc5cd5dn74b38cb2ffbe9ef7@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <48FA1C86.2030506@nut-n-but.net>

Chris Lott wrote:
> The second sentence of the article: "But Portland poet Kim Stafford is
> the exception that proves the rule. "
>
> Reading really IS a dying art!
No, Chris--not bothering to read an article about one more standard 
poet's winning lots of money past its headline is a sign of 
discriminating, not inept reading.

--Bob G.



From robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com  Sat Oct 18 12:26:33 2008
From: robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com (Robin Hamilton)
Date: Sat, 18 Oct 2008 17:26:33 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] Stafford awarded $20,000
In-Reply-To: <fde503480810180906k42d23392j8f2111d643170c3a@mail.gmail.com>
References: <8CAFC16A5AF5BF0-146C-1BE8@webmail-da04.sysops.aol.com><CC143056-E8BF-406E-A154-DF37E300E793@earthlink.net><48F52387.7050901@nut-n-but.net><9b1b9dab0810180730o2dc5cd5dn74b38cb2ffbe9ef7@mail.gmail.com>
	<fde503480810180906k42d23392j8f2111d643170c3a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <3BF7B8A06A4C4920937B8BA1BD7D6B58@RobinPC>

>> the exception that proves the rule. "

At least no one's pitched in (yet) over the variant senses of this awkward, 
if not actually ambiguous, phrase.

The Other R. 




From rog3r.day at gmail.com  Sat Oct 18 13:01:45 2008
From: rog3r.day at gmail.com (Roger Day)
Date: Sat, 18 Oct 2008 18:01:45 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] Stafford awarded $20,000
In-Reply-To: <BC20D9C47A764AFEA5FFF9A0955C90F3@RobinPC>
References: <8CAFC16A5AF5BF0-146C-1BE8@webmail-da04.sysops.aol.com>
	<CC143056-E8BF-406E-A154-DF37E300E793@earthlink.net>
	<48F52387.7050901@nut-n-but.net>
	<9b1b9dab0810180730o2dc5cd5dn74b38cb2ffbe9ef7@mail.gmail.com>
	<fde503480810180906k42d23392j8f2111d643170c3a@mail.gmail.com>
	<BC20D9C47A764AFEA5FFF9A0955C90F3@RobinPC>
Message-ID: <fde503480810181001u184e653au1892d163c0bee65a@mail.gmail.com>

Reads The Fucking Article.

"Sixteen String"? Sixteen string what?

Roger

On Sat, Oct 18, 2008 at 5:21 PM, Robin Hamilton
<robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com> wrote:
> Roger Day writes:
>
>> Nobody RTFA. Nobody.
>
>       Reads the fuck anyway?
>
> On the other hand, some of us are trying to discriminate between three
> poetic texts, all related to him and written in a six month period after
> Jack Sheppard was hanged, in 1724.
>
> Who says the past is dead?
>
> Sixteen-String Jack's blowen, Miss Roach, is still whining, in a broadside
> ballad published in the 1780s, that she really misses him.
>
> As if!
>
>           <g>
>
> Mind you, it's a bit easier when you look that far back and all the texts
> are nice and calcified.
>
> Nobodaddy
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>



-- 
My Stuff: http://www.badstep.net/
"I began to warm and chill
to objects and their fields"
Nick Cave & The Bad Seeds


From robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com  Sat Oct 18 13:20:39 2008
From: robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com (Robin Hamilton)
Date: Sat, 18 Oct 2008 18:20:39 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] Stafford awarded $20,000
In-Reply-To: <fde503480810181001u184e653au1892d163c0bee65a@mail.gmail.com>
References: <8CAFC16A5AF5BF0-146C-1BE8@webmail-da04.sysops.aol.com><CC143056-E8BF-406E-A154-DF37E300E793@earthlink.net><48F52387.7050901@nut-n-but.net><9b1b9dab0810180730o2dc5cd5dn74b38cb2ffbe9ef7@mail.gmail.com><fde503480810180906k42d23392j8f2111d643170c3a@mail.gmail.com><BC20D9C47A764AFEA5FFF9A0955C90F3@RobinPC>
	<fde503480810181001u184e653au1892d163c0bee65a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <D1EFF71C1D7A4E43A704510043CDD469@RobinPC>

> Reads The Fucking Article.

    Ah, right.

> "Sixteen String"? Sixteen string what?
>
> Roger

Sixteen-String Jack Rann.

They were number of strings of the ribbons he wore dangling from the knees 
of his breeches.

He's sometimes known as the last of the highwaymen.

R. 




From anny.ballardini at gmail.com  Sat Oct 18 15:31:43 2008
From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Sat, 18 Oct 2008 21:31:43 +0200
Subject: [New-Poetry] Stafford awarded $20,000
In-Reply-To: <9b1b9dab0810180730o2dc5cd5dn74b38cb2ffbe9ef7@mail.gmail.com>
References: <8CAFC16A5AF5BF0-146C-1BE8@webmail-da04.sysops.aol.com>
	<CC143056-E8BF-406E-A154-DF37E300E793@earthlink.net>
	<48F52387.7050901@nut-n-but.net>
	<9b1b9dab0810180730o2dc5cd5dn74b38cb2ffbe9ef7@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4b65c2d70810181231w228aef46hba8c09d1bb1cec3d@mail.gmail.com>

I sometimes read the entire article, when I have time. I also forwarded this
particular article to a true poet who lives in Portland, who sent back an
answer I am sure Bob Grumman will love,
something like:

He is very invisible, and that is why he got the money.
But definitely better written than my paraphrasing.


On Sat, Oct 18, 2008 at 4:30 PM, Chris Lott <chris.lott at gmail.com> wrote:

> The second sentence of the article: "But Portland poet Kim Stafford is
> the exception that proves the rule. "
>
> Reading really IS a dying art! Or is this that google-age scanning
> everyone talks about?
>
> c
>
> On Tue, Oct 14, 2008 at 14:56, Bob Grumman <bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net>
> wrote:
> > Halvard Johnson wrote:
> >>
> >> Hmm, no first name. A la Jewel and Trickster?
> >>
> >> Hal
> >
> > They probably figure William Stafford is too well known for his first
> name
> > to be used.  In any case, I applaud them: it's about time one of these
> > things went to a literally dead poet.
> >
> > --Bob G.
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > New-Poetry mailing list
> > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Chris Lott
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>



-- 
Anny Ballardini
http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html
I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing
star!
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From Opus40-01 at opus40.org  Sat Oct 18 15:44:35 2008
From: Opus40-01 at opus40.org (TheOldMole)
Date: Sat, 18 Oct 2008 15:44:35 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] Stafford awarded $20,000
In-Reply-To: <4b65c2d70810181231w228aef46hba8c09d1bb1cec3d@mail.gmail.com>
References: <8CAFC16A5AF5BF0-146C-1BE8@webmail-da04.sysops.aol.com>	<CC143056-E8BF-406E-A154-DF37E300E793@earthlink.net>	<48F52387.7050901@nut-n-but.net>	<9b1b9dab0810180730o2dc5cd5dn74b38cb2ffbe9ef7@mail.gmail.com>
	<4b65c2d70810181231w228aef46hba8c09d1bb1cec3d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <48FA3CA3.1040705@opus40.org>

A true poet? No wonder he's not on this iist.

Anny Ballardini wrote:
> I sometimes read the entire article, when I have time. I also 
> forwarded this particular article to a true poet who lives in 
> Portland, who sent back an answer I am sure Bob Grumman will love,
> something like:
>
> He is very invisible, and that is why he got the money.
> But definitely better written than my paraphrasing.
>
>
> On Sat, Oct 18, 2008 at 4:30 PM, Chris Lott <chris.lott at gmail.com 
> <mailto:chris.lott at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>     The second sentence of the article: "But Portland poet Kim Stafford is
>     the exception that proves the rule. "
>
>     Reading really IS a dying art! Or is this that google-age scanning
>     everyone talks about?
>
>     c
>
>     On Tue, Oct 14, 2008 at 14:56, Bob Grumman
>     <bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net <mailto:bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net>> wrote:
>     > Halvard Johnson wrote:
>     >>
>     >> Hmm, no first name. A la Jewel and Trickster?
>     >>
>     >> Hal
>     >
>     > They probably figure William Stafford is too well known for his
>     first name
>     > to be used.  In any case, I applaud them: it's about time one of
>     these
>     > things went to a literally dead poet.
>     >
>     > --Bob G.
>     >
>     > _______________________________________________
>     > New-Poetry mailing list
>     > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu <mailto:New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
>     > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>     >
>
>
>
>     --
>     Chris Lott
>     _______________________________________________
>     New-Poetry mailing list
>     New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu <mailto:New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
>     http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
>
>
>
> -- 
> Anny Ballardini
> http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
> http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
> http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html
> I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a 
> dancing star!
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>   

-- 
Tad Richards
http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/
http://opusforty.blogspot.com/

Don't forget to order your copy of FILM NOIR!
http://stores.lulu.com/store.php?fAcctID=2712239



From anny.ballardini at gmail.com  Sat Oct 18 15:50:43 2008
From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Sat, 18 Oct 2008 21:50:43 +0200
Subject: [New-Poetry] Stafford awarded $20,000
In-Reply-To: <48FA3CA3.1040705@opus40.org>
References: <8CAFC16A5AF5BF0-146C-1BE8@webmail-da04.sysops.aol.com>
	<CC143056-E8BF-406E-A154-DF37E300E793@earthlink.net>
	<48F52387.7050901@nut-n-but.net>
	<9b1b9dab0810180730o2dc5cd5dn74b38cb2ffbe9ef7@mail.gmail.com>
	<4b65c2d70810181231w228aef46hba8c09d1bb1cec3d@mail.gmail.com>
	<48FA3CA3.1040705@opus40.org>
Message-ID: <4b65c2d70810181250j7203bb4s4a70821165577e7f@mail.gmail.com>

Then what are we, Tad, all ghoooost?

On Sat, Oct 18, 2008 at 9:44 PM, TheOldMole <Opus40-01 at opus40.org> wrote:

> A true poet? No wonder he's not on this iist.
>
> Anny Ballardini wrote:
>
>> I sometimes read the entire article, when I have time. I also forwarded
>> this particular article to a true poet who lives in Portland, who sent back
>> an answer I am sure Bob Grumman will love,
>> something like:
>>
>> He is very invisible, and that is why he got the money.
>> But definitely better written than my paraphrasing.
>>
>>
-- 
Anny Ballardini
http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html
I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing
star!
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From GRAHAMD at RIPON.EDU  Sat Oct 18 15:58:20 2008
From: GRAHAMD at RIPON.EDU (David Graham)
Date: Sat, 18 Oct 2008 14:58:20 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] A short essay on poetry
Message-ID: <3252BD69-5D80-4102-A859-10DAA93502C4@RIPON.EDU>

A Short Essay On Poetry

A poet who observes his own poetry ends up, in spite of it, by  
finding nothing to observe, just as a man who pays too much attention  
to the way he walks, finds his legs walking off from under him.  
Nevertheless, poets must sometimes look at themselves in order to  
remember what they are risking. What I see as poetry is a sample of  
the human scene, its incurably acute melancholia redeemed only by  
affection. This sample of endurance is innocent and gay: the music of  
vowel and consonant is the happy-go-lucky echo of time itself.  
Without this music there is simply no poem. It borrows further gaiety  
by contrast with the burden it carries -- for this exquisite lilt,  
this dance of sound, must be married to a responsible intelligence  
before there can occur the poem. Naturally, they are one: meanings  
and music, metaphor and thought. In the course of poetry's career,  
perhaps new awarenesses discovered, really new awarenesses and not  
verbal combinations brought together in any old way. This rather  
unimportant novelty is sometimes a play of possibility and sometimes  
a genuinely new insight: like Tristram Shandy, they add something to  
this Fragment of Life.

-? David Schubert
(1941)

Blog:  The Best American Poetry.   10/18/08
http://thebestamericanpoetry.typepad.com/the_best_american_poetry/



========================================
David Graham
grahamd at ripon.edu

Home Page:
http://web.mac.com/drjazz

Poetry Library:
http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html
==========================================




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From Opus40-01 at opus40.org  Sat Oct 18 16:16:50 2008
From: Opus40-01 at opus40.org (TheOldMole)
Date: Sat, 18 Oct 2008 16:16:50 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] A short essay on poetry
In-Reply-To: <3252BD69-5D80-4102-A859-10DAA93502C4@RIPON.EDU>
References: <3252BD69-5D80-4102-A859-10DAA93502C4@RIPON.EDU>
Message-ID: <48FA4432.6000308@opus40.org>

Nice.

I'm unfortunately stuck here at the computer because my legs have walked 
off.

David Graham wrote:
> *A Short Essay On Poetry*
>  
> A poet who observes his own poetry ends up, in spite of it, by finding 
> nothing to observe, just as a man who pays too much attention to the 
> way he walks, finds his legs walking off from under him. Nevertheless, 
> poets must sometimes look at themselves in order to remember what they 
> are risking. What I see as poetry is a sample of the human scene, its 
> incurably acute melancholia redeemed only by affection. This sample of 
> endurance is innocent and gay: the music of vowel and consonant is the 
> happy-go-lucky echo of time itself. Without this music there is simply 
> no poem. It borrows further gaiety by contrast with the burden it 
> carries -- for this exquisite lilt, this dance of sound, must be 
> married to a responsible intelligence before there can occur the poem. 
> Naturally, they are one: meanings and music, metaphor and thought. In 
> the course of poetry's career, perhaps new awarenesses discovered, 
> really new awarenesses and not verbal combinations brought together in 
> any old way. This rather unimportant novelty is sometimes a play of 
> possibility and sometimes a genuinely new insight: like /Tristram 
> Shandy/, they add something to this Fragment of Life.
>  
> -? David Schubert
> (1941)
>
> Blog:  /The Best American Poetry. /  10/18/08
> http://thebestamericanpoetry.typepad.com/the_best_american_poetry/
>
>
>
> ========================================
> David Graham
> grahamd at ripon.edu <mailto:grahamd at ripon.edu>
>
> Home Page:
> http://web.mac.com/drjazz
>
> Poetry Library:
> http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html
> ==========================================
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>   

-- 
Tad Richards
http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/
http://opusforty.blogspot.com/

Don't forget to order your copy of FILM NOIR!
http://stores.lulu.com/store.php?fAcctID=2712239



From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net  Sat Oct 18 19:24:21 2008
From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman)
Date: Sat, 18 Oct 2008 18:24:21 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Stafford awarded $20,000
In-Reply-To: <4b65c2d70810181250j7203bb4s4a70821165577e7f@mail.gmail.com>
References: <8CAFC16A5AF5BF0-146C-1BE8@webmail-da04.sysops.aol.com><CC143056-E8BF-406E-A154-DF37E300E793@earthlink.net><48F52387.
	7050901@nut-n-but.net><9b1b9dab0810180730o2dc5cd5dn74b38cb2ffbe9ef7@mail.gmail.com><4b65c2d70810181231w228aef46hba8c09d1bb1cec3
	d@mail.gmail.com><48FA3CA3.1040705@opus40.org>
	<4b65c2d70810181250j7203bb4s4a70821165577e7f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <48FA7025.9070507@nut-n-but.net>

Anny Ballardini wrote:
> Then what are we, Tad, all ghoooost?
Yeah, Mole!  It's we what are the True Poets, and nobody else!!!

--TruePoet #264



From anny.ballardini at gmail.com  Sun Oct 19 11:01:20 2008
From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Sun, 19 Oct 2008 17:01:20 +0200
Subject: [New-Poetry] Sharon Dolin
Message-ID: <4b65c2d70810190801v2feb22a3y25c9f74b68873065@mail.gmail.com>

Our own Sharon Dolin on npr!
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=95867915

too short, though...
and on the Corner:
http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=Content&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=183


enjoy!


-- 
Anny Ballardini
http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html
I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing
star!
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From blacksox at att.net  Mon Oct 20 00:16:18 2008
From: blacksox at att.net (blacksox at att.net)
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2008 04:16:18 +0000
Subject: [New-Poetry] Stafford awarded $20,000 
Message-ID: <102020080416.16473.48FC0612000179A60000405922216125569B0A02D29B9B0EBF98019C050C0E040D@att.net>

Maybe I am alone in my being a fan of William Stafford. 
His work has always been political. Most likely from his
being an conscious objector in WWII. He was never experimental,
but the spirit of his work, to advance the human condition,
stands on its own merit.

An Introduction to Some Poems

Look: no one ever promised for sure 
that we would sing. We have decided 
to moan. In a strange dance that 
we don't understand till we do it, we 
have to carry on. 

Just as in sleep you have to dream 
the exact dream to round out your life, 
so we have to live that dream into stories 
and hold them close at you, close at the 
edge we share, to be right. 

We find it an awful thing to meet people, 
serious or not, who have turned into vacant 
effective people, so far lost that they 
won't believe their own feelings 
enough to follow them out. 

The authentic is a line from one thing 
along to the next; it interests us. 
Strangely, it relates to what works, 
but is not quite the same. It never 
swerves for revenge, 

Or profit, or fame: it holds 
together something more than the world, 
this line. And we are your wavery 
efforts at following it. Are you coming? 
Good: now it is time. 

?William Stafford

>From Someday Maybe 1973
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From jbalizsprince at googlemail.com  Mon Oct 20 05:03:13 2008
From: jbalizsprince at googlemail.com (Judy Prince)
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2008 05:03:13 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] Stafford awarded $20,000
In-Reply-To: <102020080416.16473.48FC0612000179A60000405922216125569B0A02D29B9B0EBF98019C050C0E040D@att.net>
References: <102020080416.16473.48FC0612000179A60000405922216125569B0A02D29B9B0EBF98019C050C0E040D@att.net>
Message-ID: <7db1d01b0810200203t3bebdd88tfdd2dfa9b2b85fb2@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks, blacksox, I rather like this.
Judy

2008/10/20 <blacksox at att.net>

>  Maybe I am alone in my being a fan of William Stafford.
> His work has always been political. Most likely from his
> being an conscious objector in WWII. He was never experimental,
> but the spirit of his work, to advance the human condition,
> stands on its own merit.
>
> An Introduction to Some Poems
>
>
> Look: no one ever promised for sure
> that we would sing. We have decided
> to moan. In a strange dance that
> we don't understand till we do it, we
> have to carry on.
>
> Just as in sleep you have to dream
> the exact dream to round out your life,
> so we have to live that dream into stories
> and hold them close at you, close at the
> edge we share, to be right.
>
> We find it an awful thing to meet people,
> serious or not, who have turned into vacant
> effective people, so far lost that they
> won't believe their own feelings
> enough to follow them out.
>
> The authentic is a line from one thing
> along to the next; it interests us.
> Strangely, it relates to what works,
> but is not quite the same. It never
> swerves for revenge,
>
> Or profit, or fame: it holds
> together something more than the world,
> this line. And we are your wavery
> efforts at following it. Are you coming?
> Good: now it is time.
>
> ?William Stafford
>
>
>
> From Someday Maybe 1973
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
>
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From jforjames at aol.com  Mon Oct 20 10:46:45 2008
From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2008 10:46:45 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] Stafford the elder
In-Reply-To: <102020080416.16473.48FC0612000179A60000405922216125569B0A02D29B9B0EBF98019C050C0E040D@att.net>
References: <102020080416.16473.48FC0612000179A60000405922216125569B0A02D29B9B0EBF98019C050C0E040D@att.net>
Message-ID: <8CB00D9CF0A1CBD-5B0-712@WEBMAIL-MA03.sysops.aol.com>


ASK ME



Some time when the river is ice ask me
mistakes I have made. Ask me whether
what I have done is my life. Others
have come in their slow way into
my thought, and some have tried to help 
or to hurt: ask me what difference
their strongest love or hate has made.


I will listen to what you say.
You and I can turn and look
at the silent river and wait. We know
the current is there, hidden; and there
are comings and goings from miles away
that hold the stillness exactly before us.
What the river says, this is what I say.



--William Stafford

-
This is one of my favorites by Stafford. He fell out of favor,
it seems to me, because he became the quintessential examplar
of the plain-style lyric poet.?For a time plain-style?was a prevailing 
fashion of the day. (& it got boxed about by both the New Formalists
and the Post-Mo camps.)
Perhaps in these smoke & mirrors?times there will be a return to plain 
(the?poem as clear pane)?and away from obfuscated or oblique.?

Finnegan

-----Original Message-----
From: blacksox at att.net
To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
Sent: Mon, 20 Oct 2008 12:16 am
Subject: [New-Poetry] Stafford awarded $20,000 




Maybe I am alone in my being a fan of William Stafford. 

His work has always been political. Most likely from his

being an conscious objector in WWII. He was never experimental,

but the spirit of his work, to advance the human condition,

stands on its own merit.

?

An Introduction to Some Poems

?





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From halvard at earthlink.net  Mon Oct 20 10:59:36 2008
From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson)
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2008 09:59:36 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Stafford the elder
In-Reply-To: <8CB00D9CF0A1CBD-5B0-712@WEBMAIL-MA03.sysops.aol.com>
References: <102020080416.16473.48FC0612000179A60000405922216125569B0A02D29B9B0EBF98019C050C0E040D@att.net>
	<8CB00D9CF0A1CBD-5B0-712@WEBMAIL-MA03.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <8D91C853-5E14-4E52-AA04-A1636ED04A1C@earthlink.net>

What I remember about William Stafford, apart from a number
of his poems and the fact that his poems were in the Saturday
Review of Literature on an average of every other week, was
that he'd write poems every day from 4 am to 11 am and then
do other things for the rest of the day. His advice to young
writers whose work wasn't coming up to their standards was
to lower their standards. I'd second that. Too many writers try
to write only their best stuff.

Hal

McCain / Palin -- Just say thanks but no thanks.
They're a bridge to nowhere.

Halvard Johnson
================
halvard at earthlink.net
halvard at gmail.com
http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html
http://entropyandme.blogspot.com
http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com
http://www.hamiltonstone.org
http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html



On Oct 20, 2008, at 9:46 AM, JforJames at aol.com wrote:

> ASK ME
>
>
> Some time when the river is ice ask me
> mistakes I have made. Ask me whether
> what I have done is my life. Others
> have come in their slow way into
> my thought, and some have tried to help
> or to hurt: ask me what difference
> their strongest love or hate has made.
>
> I will listen to what you say.
> You and I can turn and look
> at the silent river and wait. We know
> the current is there, hidden; and there
> are comings and goings from miles away
> that hold the stillness exactly before us.
> What the river says, this is what I say.
>
>
> --William Stafford
>
> -
> This is one of my favorites by Stafford. He fell out of favor,
> it seems to me, because he became the quintessential examplar
> of the plain-style lyric poet. For a time plain-style was a prevailing
> fashion of the day. (& it got boxed about by both the New Formalists
> and the Post-Mo camps.)
> Perhaps in these smoke & mirrors times there will be a return to plain
> (the poem as clear pane) and away from obfuscated or oblique.
>
> Finnegan
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blacksox at att.net
> To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> Sent: Mon, 20 Oct 2008 12:16 am
> Subject: [New-Poetry] Stafford awarded $20,000
>
> Maybe I am alone in my being a fan of William Stafford.
> His work has always been political. Most likely from his
> being an conscious objector in WWII. He was never experimental,
> but the spirit of his work, to advance the human condition,
> stands on its own merit.
>
> An Introduction to Some Poems
>
>
>
> McCain or Obama? Stay updated on coverage of the Presidential race  
> while you browse - Download Now!
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry

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From jforjames at aol.com  Mon Oct 20 11:07:00 2008
From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2008 11:07:00 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] Blinded by science
Message-ID: <8CB00DCA3530F86-17C0-C64@webmail-mf08.sysops.aol.com>


http://www.literaryreview.co.uk/fara_10_08.html

Patricia Fara
WATCHERS OF THE SKIES
The Age of Wonder: How the Romantic Generation Discovered the Beauty and Terror of Science
By Richard Holmes (HarperPress 554pp ?25)


Exclusive from the Literary Review print edition. Subscribe now!

Whatever C P Snow may have decreed about an unbridgeable divide between the Two Cultures, Romantic writers were fully aware of recent scientific discoveries. As a twenty-year-old medical student, John Keats spent a drink-fuelled night enthusing over a newly purchased verse translation of Homer's Iliad. 

Early the next morning, he took less than four hours to set down his own famous poem, in which he compared his feelings with those of 'some watcher of the skies/When a new planet swims into his ken'. Keats was referring to William Herschel, the astronomer who had effectively enlarged the solar system at the end of the eighteenth century by detecting a sixth planet, now known as Uranus, 

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From cervantes.james at gmail.com  Mon Oct 20 12:29:01 2008
From: cervantes.james at gmail.com (James Cervantes)
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2008 09:29:01 -0700
Subject: [New-Poetry] Stafford the elder
In-Reply-To: <8D91C853-5E14-4E52-AA04-A1636ED04A1C@earthlink.net>
References: <102020080416.16473.48FC0612000179A60000405922216125569B0A02D29B9B0EBF98019C050C0E040D@att.net>
	<8CB00D9CF0A1CBD-5B0-712@WEBMAIL-MA03.sysops.aol.com>
	<8D91C853-5E14-4E52-AA04-A1636ED04A1C@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <648208b60810200929k6db98d7eu4f07623bac61d0eb@mail.gmail.com>

Exactly.  When I was living in the northwest during the Stafford haydays
(heydays?) we all joked about having to get up earlier than Stafford in
order to catch the good ones.  The lower-your-standards thing should be
taken with a grain of salt or a single malt.  It would be o.k. if it didn't
continue with editors.
- Jim

On Mon, Oct 20, 2008 at 7:59 AM, Halvard Johnson <halvard at earthlink.net>wrote:

> What I remember about William Stafford, apart from a numberof his poems
> and the fact that his poems were in the Saturday
> Review of Literature on an average of every other week, was
> that he'd write poems every day from 4 am to 11 am and then
> do other things for the rest of the day. His advice to young
> writers whose work wasn't coming up to their standards was
> to lower their standards. I'd second that. Too many writers try
> to write only their best stuff.
>
> Hal
>
> McCain / Palin -- Just say thanks but no thanks.
> They're a bridge to nowhere.
>
> Halvard Johnson
> ================
> halvard at earthlink.net
> halvard at gmail.com
> http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html
> http://entropyandme.blogspot.com
> http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com
> http://www.hamiltonstone.org
> http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html
>
>
>
> On Oct 20, 2008, at 9:46 AM, JforJames at aol.com wrote:
>
> ASK ME
>
>
> Some time when the river is ice ask me
> mistakes I have made. Ask me whether
> what I have done is my life. Others
> have come in their slow way into
> my thought, and some have tried to help
> or to hurt: ask me what difference
> their strongest love or hate has made.
>
> I will listen to what you say.
> You and I can turn and look
> at the silent river and wait. We know
> the current is there, hidden; and there
> are comings and goings from miles away
> that hold the stillness exactly before us.
> What the river says, this is what I say.
>
>
> --William Stafford
>
> -
> This is one of my favorites by Stafford. He fell out of favor,
> it seems to me, because he became the quintessential examplar
> of the plain-style lyric poet. For a time plain-style was a prevailing
> fashion of the day. (& it got boxed about by both the New Formalists
> and the Post-Mo camps.)
> Perhaps in these smoke & mirrors times there will be a return to plain
> (the poem as clear pane) and away from obfuscated or oblique.
>
> Finnegan
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blacksox at att.net
> To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> Sent: Mon, 20 Oct 2008 12:16 am
> Subject: [New-Poetry] Stafford awarded $20,000
>
>  Maybe I am alone in my being a fan of William Stafford.
> His work has always been political. Most likely from his
> being an conscious objector in WWII. He was never experimental,
> but the spirit of his work, to advance the human condition,
> stands on its own merit.
>
> An Introduction to Some Poems
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
> McCain or Obama? Stay updated on coverage of the Presidential race while
> you browse - Download Now!<http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1211139166x1200680084/aol?redir=http://toolbar.aol.com/elections/download.html?ncid=emlweusdown00000002>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
>
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From halvard at earthlink.net  Mon Oct 20 13:20:52 2008
From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson)
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2008 12:20:52 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Stafford the elder
In-Reply-To: <648208b60810200929k6db98d7eu4f07623bac61d0eb@mail.gmail.com>
References: <102020080416.16473.48FC0612000179A60000405922216125569B0A02D29B9B0EBF98019C050C0E040D@att.net>
	<8CB00D9CF0A1CBD-5B0-712@WEBMAIL-MA03.sysops.aol.com>
	<8D91C853-5E14-4E52-AA04-A1636ED04A1C@earthlink.net>
	<648208b60810200929k6db98d7eu4f07623bac61d0eb@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5CD4CF5B-2109-4555-91FD-4FD7E3B31123@earthlink.net>

If writers didn't lower their standards sometimes, then their
best work would really be their worst.

Hal

McCain / Palin -- Just say thanks but no thanks.
They're a bridge to nowhere.

Halvard Johnson
================
halvard at earthlink.net
halvard at gmail.com
http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html
http://entropyandme.blogspot.com
http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com
http://www.hamiltonstone.org
http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html



On Oct 20, 2008, at 11:29 AM, James Cervantes wrote:

> Exactly.  When I was living in the northwest during the Stafford  
> haydays (heydays?) we all joked about having to get up earlier than  
> Stafford in order to catch the good ones.  The lower-your-standards  
> thing should be taken with a grain of salt or a single malt.  It  
> would be o.k. if it didn't continue with editors.
>
> - Jim
>
> On Mon, Oct 20, 2008 at 7:59 AM, Halvard Johnson <halvard at earthlink.net 
> > wrote:
> What I remember about William Stafford, apart from a number
> of his poems and the fact that his poems were in the Saturday
> Review of Literature on an average of every other week, was
> that he'd write poems every day from 4 am to 11 am and then
> do other things for the rest of the day. His advice to young
> writers whose work wasn't coming up to their standards was
> to lower their standards. I'd second that. Too many writers try
> to write only their best stuff.
>
> Hal
>
> McCain / Palin -- Just say thanks but no thanks.
> They're a bridge to nowhere.
>
> Halvard Johnson
> ================
> halvard at earthlink.net
> halvard at gmail.com
> http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html
> http://entropyandme.blogspot.com
> http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com
> http://www.hamiltonstone.org
> http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html
>
>
>
> On Oct 20, 2008, at 9:46 AM, JforJames at aol.com wrote:
>
>> ASK ME
>>
>>
>> Some time when the river is ice ask me
>> mistakes I have made. Ask me whether
>> what I have done is my life. Others
>> have come in their slow way into
>> my thought, and some have tried to help
>> or to hurt: ask me what difference
>> their strongest love or hate has made.
>>
>> I will listen to what you say.
>> You and I can turn and look
>> at the silent river and wait. We know
>> the current is there, hidden; and there
>> are comings and goings from miles away
>> that hold the stillness exactly before us.
>> What the river says, this is what I say.
>>
>>
>> --William Stafford
>>
>> -
>> This is one of my favorites by Stafford. He fell out of favor,
>> it seems to me, because he became the quintessential examplar
>> of the plain-style lyric poet. For a time plain-style was a  
>> prevailing
>> fashion of the day. (& it got boxed about by both the New Formalists
>> and the Post-Mo camps.)
>> Perhaps in these smoke & mirrors times there will be a return to  
>> plain
>> (the poem as clear pane) and away from obfuscated or oblique.
>>
>> Finnegan
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: blacksox at att.net
>> To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>> Sent: Mon, 20 Oct 2008 12:16 am
>> Subject: [New-Poetry] Stafford awarded $20,000
>>
>> Maybe I am alone in my being a fan of William Stafford.
>> His work has always been political. Most likely from his
>> being an conscious objector in WWII. He was never experimental,
>> but the spirit of his work, to advance the human condition,
>> stands on its own merit.
>>
>> An Introduction to Some Poems
>>
>>
>>
>> McCain or Obama? Stay updated on coverage of the Presidential race  
>> while you browse - Download Now!
>> _______________________________________________
>> New-Poetry mailing list
>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry

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From jforjames at aol.com  Mon Oct 20 13:35:30 2008
From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2008 13:35:30 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] My first book and me
Message-ID: <8CB00F161D1ECFA-D10-64D@mblk-d13.sysops.aol.com>


http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/jacketcopy/2008/10/portrait-of-the.html


Before publishing her first book, the poet Kate Greenstreet started to wonder about what becoming a published author would mean. "Will it change me?" she asked in 2006. "Or will it inspire me to change -- to do things to help the book find its audience?" She asked more than 100 authors -- mostly poets -- about the experience and has archived their responses
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From millb at aol.com  Mon Oct 20 13:38:02 2008
From: millb at aol.com (Millicent Accardi)
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2008 13:38:02 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] Stafford the elder
In-Reply-To: <5CD4CF5B-2109-4555-91FD-4FD7E3B31123@earthlink.net>
References: <102020080416.16473.48FC0612000179A60000405922216125569B0A02D29B9B0EBF98019C050C0E040D@att.net><8CB00D9CF0A1CBD-5B0-712@WEBMAIL-MA03.sysops.aol.com><8D91C853-5E14-4E52-AA04-A1636ED04A1C@earthlink.net><648208b60810200929k6db98d7eu4f07623bac61d0eb@mail.gmail.com>
	<5CD4CF5B-2109-4555-91FD-4FD7E3B31123@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <8CB00F1BC465541-1088-D9A@webmail-me07.sysops.aol.com>

I find my worst work gives me permission and space to produce my best work.? Putting the kibosh on any efforts before you carry them out stymies the creative process.? At least for me.


Cheers,

Millicent 


From: Halvard Johnson <halvard at earthlink.net>
Sent: Mon, 20 Oct 2008 10:20 am
Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Stafford the elder



If writers didn't lower their standards sometimes, then their 
best work would really be their worst.




Hal







McCain / Palin -- Just say thanks but no thanks.

They're a bridge to nowhere.




Halvard Johnson

================

halvard at earthlink.net

halvard at gmail.com

http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html

http://entropyandme.blogspot.com?

http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com
http://www.hamiltonstone.org 


http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html













On Oct 20, 2008, at 11:29 AM, James Cervantes wrote:



Exactly. ?When I was living in the northwest during the Stafford haydays (heydays?) we all joked about having to get up earlier than Stafford in order to catch the good ones. ?The lower-your-standards thing should be taken with a grain of salt or a single malt. ?It would be o.k. if it didn't continue with editors. 



- Jim


On Mon, Oct 20, 2008 at 7:59 AM, Halvard Johnson <halvard at earthlink.net> wrote:


What I remember about William Stafford, apart from a number 
of his poems and the fact that his poems were in the Saturday

Review of Literature on an average of every other week, was

that he'd write poems every day from 4 am to 11 am and then

do other things for the rest of the day. His advice to young

writers whose work wasn't coming up to their standards was

to lower their standards. I'd second that. Too many writers try

to write only their best stuff.




Hal









McCain / Palin -- Just say thanks but no thanks.

They're a bridge to nowhere.




Halvard Johnson

================

halvard at earthlink.net

halvard at gmail.com

http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html

http://entropyandme.blogspot.com?

http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com
http://www.hamiltonstone.org 


http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html

















On Oct 20, 2008, at 9:46 AM, JforJames at aol.com wrote:









ASK ME



Some time when the river is ice ask me
mistakes I have made. Ask me whether
what I have done is my life. Others
have come in their slow way into
my thought, and some have tried to help 
or to hurt: ask me what difference
their strongest love or hate has made.


I will listen to what you say.
You and I can turn and look
at the silent river and wait. We know
the current is there, hidden; and there
are comings and goings from miles away
that hold the stillness exactly before us.
What the river says, this is what I say.



--William Stafford

-
This is one of my favorites by Stafford. He fell out of favor,
it seems to me, because he became the quintessential examplar
of the plain-style lyric poet.?For a time plain-style?was a prevailing 
fashion of the day. (& it got boxed about by both the New Formalists
and the Post-Mo camps.)
Perhaps in these smoke & mirrors?times there will be a return to plain 
(the?poem as clear pane)?and away from obfuscated or oblique.?

Finnegan

-----Original Message-----
From: blacksox at att.net
To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
Sent: Mon, 20 Oct 2008 12:16 am
Subject: [New-Poetry] Stafford awarded $20,000 




Maybe I am alone in my being a fan of William Stafford. 

His work has always been political. Most likely from his

being an conscious objector in WWII. He was never experimental,

but the spirit of his work, to advance the human condition,

stands on its own merit.

?

An Introduction to Some Poems

?


?




McCain or Obama? Stay updated on coverage of the Presidential race while you browse - Download Now! 


_______________________________________________
New-Poetry mailing list
New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry






_______________________________________________
New-Poetry mailing list
New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry






_______________________________________________
New-Poetry mailing list
New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry




= 


_______________________________________________
New-Poetry mailing list
New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry

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From grahamd at ripon.edu  Mon Oct 20 13:38:55 2008
From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham)
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2008 12:38:55 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Stafford the elder
In-Reply-To: <648208b60810200929k6db98d7eu4f07623bac61d0eb@mail.gmail.com>
References: <102020080416.16473.48FC0612000179A60000405922216125569B0A02D29B9B0EBF98019C050C0E040D@att.net>
	<8CB00D9CF0A1CBD-5B0-712@WEBMAIL-MA03.sysops.aol.com>
	<8D91C853-5E14-4E52-AA04-A1636ED04A1C@earthlink.net>
	<648208b60810200929k6db98d7eu4f07623bac61d0eb@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <FFB6B22F-DC04-4642-AEC9-CD7CD15284F2@ripon.edu>

I've always taken the Lower Your Standards motto as advice for  
writers who are "blocked"; it's not a recipe for revision or  
encouragement for abandoning all notions of quality, as it's  
sometimes been taken.  Stafford did revise, and the best of his poems  
are quite nicely crafted.

He also published a great deal of work that isn't his best, but  
that's another issue.

I believe that originally Stafford made the quip in response to an  
interviewer asking him what *he* did when he found himself suffering  
from writer's block.  Since he didn't believe in writer's block,  
except as something you talk yourself into, the Lower My Standards  
remark was his quite pragmatic reply when asked what he did when  
found himself unable to write as well as he wanted to.

The idea--familiar to anyone who's taught writing or studied  
composition research--is simply that it's better to have words on  
paper than no words on paper.  You can't revise or improve what's not  
there.  For many beginning writers in particular, it's quite  
liberating to separate the invention stage from the drafting and  
revising stages.  And for many perfectionist types, it's a real  
struggle to get something down in the first place; lowering your  
standards is the antidote to paralysis.  It can also be very  
liberating, in my experience, to more experienced writers in search  
of fresh woods and pastures new.





========================================
David Graham
grahamd at ripon.edu

Home Page:
http://web.mac.com/drjazz

Poetry Library:
http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html
==========================================




On Oct 20, 2008, at 11:29 AM, James Cervantes wrote:

> Exactly.  When I was living in the northwest during the Stafford  
> haydays (heydays?) we all joked about having to get up earlier than  
> Stafford in order to catch the good ones.  The lower-your-standards  
> thing should be taken with a grain of salt or a single malt.  It  
> would be o.k. if it didn't continue with editors.
>
> - Jim
>
> On Mon, Oct 20, 2008 at 7:59 AM, Halvard Johnson  
> <halvard at earthlink.net> wrote:
> What I remember about William Stafford, apart from a number
> of his poems and the fact that his poems were in the Saturday
> Review of Literature on an average of every other week, was
> that he'd write poems every day from 4 am to 11 am and then
> do other things for the rest of the day. His advice to young
> writers whose work wasn't coming up to their standards was
> to lower their standards. I'd second that. Too many writers try
> to write only their best stuff.
>
> Hal
>
>
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From tad at opus40.org  Mon Oct 20 13:44:42 2008
From: tad at opus40.org (tad at opus40.org)
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2008 12:44:42 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Stafford the elder
Message-ID: <4125.1224524682@opus40.org>

 We don't ever really know what our standards are. If we think we're
lowering them, we're as likely to be wrong as right. How many times
have you said, or heard your friends say, "I don't understand these
editors. Whenever I sent out four or five poems, and they take one,
it's always the worst one." Well, maybe it isn't. Maybe your standards
for judging your own work are fucked up.
 Tad Richards 
 www.opus40.org/tadrichards 
 On Mon 20/10/08 1:20 PM , Halvard Johnson halvard at earthlink.net
sent:
  If writers didn't lower their standards sometimes, then their best
work would really be their worst. 
  Hal 
     McCain / Palin -- Just say thanks but no thanks. They're a
bridge to nowhere. 
  Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at earthlink.net [1]
halvard at gmail.com [2] http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html
[3]  http://entropyandme.blogspot.com [4] 
http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com [5]http://www.hamiltonstone.org
[6]   http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html  
  On Oct 20, 2008, at 11:29 AM, James Cervantes wrote:
  Exactly.  When I was living in the northwest during the Stafford
haydays (heydays?) we all joked about having to get up earlier than
Stafford in order to catch the good ones.  The lower-your-standards
thing should be taken with a grain of salt or a single malt.  It would
be o.k. if it didn't continue with editors. 
 - Jim
 On Mon, Oct 20, 2008 at 7:59 AM, Halvard Johnson  wrote:
  What I remember about William Stafford, apart from a number of his
poems and the fact that his poems were in the Saturday Review of
Literature on an average of every other week, was that he'd write
poems every day from 4 am to 11 am and then do other things for the
rest of the day. His advice to young writers whose work wasn't coming
up to their standards was to lower their standards. I'd second that.
Too many writers try to write only their best stuff. 
  Hal 
       McCain / Palin -- Just say thanks but no thanks. They're a
bridge to nowhere. 
  Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at earthlink.net [8]
halvard at gmail.com [9] http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html
[10] http://entropyandme.blogspot.com [11] 
http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com
[12]http://www.hamiltonstone.org [13]  
http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html [14] 
     On Oct 20, 2008, at 9:46 AM, JforJames at aol.com [15] wrote:
      ASK ME 
 Some time when the river is ice ask me
 mistakes I have made. Ask me whether
 what I have done is my life. Others
 have come in their slow way into
 my thought, and some have tried to help 
 or to hurt: ask me what difference
 their strongest love or hate has made. 
 I will listen to what you say.
 You and I can turn and look
 at the silent river and wait. We know
 the current is there, hidden; and there
 are comings and goings from miles away
 that hold the stillness exactly before us.
 What the river says, this is what I say. 
 --William Stafford
 -
 This is one of my favorites by Stafford. He fell out of favor,
 it seems to me, because he became the quintessential examplar
 of the plain-style lyric poet. For a time plain-style was a
prevailing 
 fashion of the day. (& it got boxed about by both the New Formalists
 and the Post-Mo camps.)
 Perhaps in these smoke & mirrors times there will be a return to
plain 
 (the poem as clear pane) and away from obfuscated or oblique. 
 Finnegan
 -----Original Message-----
 From: blacksox at att.net [16]
 To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu [17]
 Sent: Mon, 20 Oct 2008 12:16 am
 Subject: [New-Poetry] Stafford awarded $20,000 
   Maybe I am alone in my being a fan of William Stafford.  His work
has always been political. Most likely from his being an conscious
objector in WWII. He was never experimental, but the spirit of his
work, to advance the human condition, stands on its own merit.   An
Introduction to Some Poems      
-------------------------
  McCain or Obama? Stay updated on coverage of the Presidential race
while you browse - Download Now! [18]
_______________________________________________
 New-Poetry mailing list
 New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu [19]
 http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry [20]
 _______________________________________________
 New-Poetry mailing list
 New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu [21]
 http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry [22]
 _______________________________________________
 New-Poetry mailing list
 New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu [23]
 http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry


Links:
------
[1] mailto:halvard at earthlink.net
[2] mailto:halvard at gmail.com
[3] http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html
[4] http://entropyandme.blogspot.com
[5] http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com
[6] http://www.hamiltonstone.org
[7] mailto:halvard at earthlink.net
[8] mailto:halvard at earthlink.net
[9] mailto:halvard at gmail.com
[10] http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html
[11] http://entropyandme.blogspot.com
[12] http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com
[13] http://www.hamiltonstone.org
[14] http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html
[15] mailto:JforJames at aol.com
[16] mailto:blacksox at att.net
[17] mailto:new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
[18]
http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1211139166x1200680084/aol?redir=http://toolbar.aol.com/elections/download.html?ncid=emlweusdown00000002
[19] mailto:New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
[20] http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
[21] mailto:New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
[22] http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
[23] mailto:New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
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From millb at aol.com  Mon Oct 20 14:16:15 2008
From: millb at aol.com (Millicent Accardi)
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2008 14:16:15 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] Body Modification Poems
In-Reply-To: <FFB6B22F-DC04-4642-AEC9-CD7CD15284F2@ripon.edu>
References: <102020080416.16473.48FC0612000179A60000405922216125569B0A02D29B9B0EBF98019C050C0E040D@att.net><8CB00D9CF0A1CBD-5B0-712@WEBMAIL-MA03.sysops.aol.com><8D91C853-5E14-4E52-AA04-A1636ED04A1C@earthlink.net><648208b60810200929k6db98d7eu4f07623bac61d0eb@mail.gmail.com>
	<FFB6B22F-DC04-4642-AEC9-CD7CD15284F2@ripon.edu>
Message-ID: <8CB00F713769D47-E88-FE@webmail-me07.sysops.aol.com>


Can anyone on this list recommend a good anthology or poems about body modification or poems dealing with body image after body modification?(surgery, tattoos) from an empowered feminist point of view?

Thanks,


Millicent
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From tad at opus40.org  Mon Oct 20 14:56:22 2008
From: tad at opus40.org (tad at opus40.org)
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2008 13:56:22 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Body Modification Poems
Message-ID: <4705.1224528982@opus40.org>

 I don't have it in front of me, but The Cancer Poetry Project might
be a place to start.
 Tad Richards 
 www.opus40.org/tadrichards 
 On Mon 20/10/08 2:16 PM , Millicent Accardi millb at aol.com sent:
   Can anyone on this list recommend a good anthology or poems about
body modification or poems dealing with body image after body
modification (surgery, tattoos) from an empowered feminist point of
view?
 Thanks,
 Millicent 
-------------------------
  McCain or Obama? Stay updated on coverage of the Presidential race
while you browse - Download Now! [1] 


Links:
------
[1]
http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1211139166x1200680084/aol?redir=http://toolbar.aol.com/elections/download.html?ncid=emlweusdown00000002
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From tad at opus40.org  Mon Oct 20 14:56:22 2008
From: tad at opus40.org (tad at opus40.org)
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2008 13:56:22 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Body Modification Poems
Message-ID: <4707.1224528982@opus40.org>

 I don't have it in front of me, but The Cancer Poetry Project might
be a place to start.
 Tad Richards 
 www.opus40.org/tadrichards 
 On Mon 20/10/08 2:16 PM , Millicent Accardi millb at aol.com sent:
   Can anyone on this list recommend a good anthology or poems about
body modification or poems dealing with body image after body
modification (surgery, tattoos) from an empowered feminist point of
view?
 Thanks,
 Millicent 
-------------------------
  McCain or Obama? Stay updated on coverage of the Presidential race
while you browse - Download Now! [1] 


Links:
------
[1]
http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1211139166x1200680084/aol?redir=http://toolbar.aol.com/elections/download.html?ncid=emlweusdown00000002
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From alexdickow9 at yahoo.com  Mon Oct 20 15:17:20 2008
From: alexdickow9 at yahoo.com (Alexander Dickow)
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2008 12:17:20 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [New-Poetry] Caramboles book release
Message-ID: <234531.4541.qm@web35508.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Dear Friends and Fellow Poets,

My first full-length book, Caramboles, is now available! The book is a bilingual French/English poetry collection: you can find links to reviews and a book presentation after this message. 

If you live in France, you can find it in Parisian bookstores such as Tschann, Gibert Joseph or the Fnac des Halles. To save on shipping, you can also order it in the US, by telephone or email from BookPeople of Moscow, Idaho:

http://www.bookpeople.net/OrderForm.htm 

Alternatively, you can order it from the following websites:

http://www.placedeslibraires.fr/dlivre.php?ALIS=14b9989859b9651369b4f5ba3bafe203&gencod=9782915978377&rid=11
http://www.lelibraire.com/din/tit.php?Id=60090
http://livre.fnac.com/a2457591/Alexander-Dickow-Caramboles?Mn=-1&Mu=-13&Ra=-1&To=0&Nu=2&Fr=0

If you have difficulty ordering the book, please get in touch with me.

Thanks for your time, attention and support, and feel free to tell me about your reading experience! 

Amicalement,

Alexander Dickow
alexdickow9 at yahoo.com


REVIEWS:
Jean-Claude Pinson - English translation of the review available at http://www.alexdickow.net/blog/article/115/caramboles-reviewed-on-sitaudis-compte-rendu-de-caramboles-sur-sitaudis
- French original at http://www.sitaudis.com/Parutions/caramboles-d-alexander-dickow.php

Tristan Hord? - Review in French at http://poezibao.typepad.com/poezibao/2008/09/caramboles-de-a.html

PRESENTATION:
Argol Editions
www.argol-editions.fr

Alexander Dickow
Caramboles
?L?Estran? Collection
ISBN : 978-2-915978-37-7
134 pages
Price : 17 ?

?The most cockeyed, twitching, wobbliest gait eventually becomes so ungainly, so weirdly lopsided that it dances. This book would rather linger in the confines, if it can, wherever the one becomes the other. I assault the French language, my second; I clutter it with l?on-lit and qu?on-con, unthinkable infractions, maim it with impossible malaprops. I torment and overthrow my other second language, English; I embrace every solecism, bludgeon with blunders every ear within eyeshot; I merrily reduce the English language to a frenzied shuffle. Or else I unhinge language, dislocate it, as though I were a gnome in a museum tilting picture-frames for a good laugh, just enough to discompose the patrons. Aficionados object; campaigns are launched against the crooked: the virtuous demand redress.? A.D.

Alexander Dickow, an American poet and translator, was born in 1979. He lives in New Jersey. A student of French literature, he travelled to France in 2003-2004 to study in Nantes, where he completed a French degree in literature. He is currently pursuing dissertation research devoted to 20th-Century French poetry. He has published poems in French and American journals. Caramboles is his first book.






From anny.ballardini at gmail.com  Mon Oct 20 16:21:22 2008
From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2008 22:21:22 +0200
Subject: [New-Poetry] Caramboles book release
In-Reply-To: <234531.4541.qm@web35508.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <234531.4541.qm@web35508.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4b65c2d70810201321l7a30b10h5974922ce181fd61@mail.gmail.com>

You're a musical man, Dickow, I just received from Facebook your
announcement in French, such a singing language,

even if Brazilian Portuguese seemed to me, way back in time, the most lovely
song_

On Mon, Oct 20, 2008 at 9:17 PM, Alexander Dickow <alexdickow9 at yahoo.com>wrote:

> Dear Friends and Fellow Poets,
>
> My first full-length book, Caramboles, is now available! The book is a
> bilingual French/English poetry collection: you can find links to reviews
> and a book presentation after this message.
>
> If you live in France, you can find it in Parisian bookstores such as
> Tschann, Gibert Joseph or the Fnac des Halles. To save on shipping, you can
> also order it in the US, by telephone or email from BookPeople of Moscow,
> Idaho:
>
> http://www.bookpeople.net/OrderForm.htm
>
> Alternatively, you can order it from the following websites:
>
>
> http://www.placedeslibraires.fr/dlivre.php?ALIS=14b9989859b9651369b4f5ba3bafe203&gencod=9782915978377&rid=11
> http://www.lelibraire.com/din/tit.php?Id=60090
>
> http://livre.fnac.com/a2457591/Alexander-Dickow-Caramboles?Mn=-1&Mu=-13&Ra=-1&To=0&Nu=2&Fr=0
>
> If you have difficulty ordering the book, please get in touch with me.
>
> Thanks for your time, attention and support, and feel free to tell me about
> your reading experience!
>
> Amicalement,
>
> Alexander Dickow
> alexdickow9 at yahoo.com
>
>
> REVIEWS:
> Jean-Claude Pinson - English translation of the review available at
> http://www.alexdickow.net/blog/article/115/caramboles-reviewed-on-sitaudis-compte-rendu-de-caramboles-sur-sitaudis
> - French original at
> http://www.sitaudis.com/Parutions/caramboles-d-alexander-dickow.php
>
> Tristan Hord? - Review in French at
> http://poezibao.typepad.com/poezibao/2008/09/caramboles-de-a.html
>
> PRESENTATION:
> Argol Editions
> www.argol-editions.fr
>
> Alexander Dickow
> Caramboles
> "L'Estran" Collection
> ISBN : 978-2-915978-37-7
> 134 pages
> Price : 17 ?
>
> "The most cockeyed, twitching, wobbliest gait eventually becomes so
> ungainly, so weirdly lopsided that it dances. This book would rather linger
> in the confines, if it can, wherever the one becomes the other. I assault
> the French language, my second; I clutter it with l'on-lit and qu'on-con,
> unthinkable infractions, maim it with impossible malaprops. I torment and
> overthrow my other second language, English; I embrace every solecism,
> bludgeon with blunders every ear within eyeshot; I merrily reduce the
> English language to a frenzied shuffle. Or else I unhinge language,
> dislocate it, as though I were a gnome in a museum tilting picture-frames
> for a good laugh, just enough to discompose the patrons. Aficionados object;
> campaigns are launched against the crooked: the virtuous demand redress."
> A.D.
>
> Alexander Dickow, an American poet and translator, was born in 1979. He
> lives in New Jersey. A student of French literature, he travelled to France
> in 2003-2004 to study in Nantes, where he completed a French degree in
> literature. He is currently pursuing dissertation research devoted to
> 20th-Century French poetry. He has published poems in French and American
> journals. Caramboles is his first book.
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>



-- 
Anny Ballardini
http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html
I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing
star!
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From cervantes.james at gmail.com  Mon Oct 20 20:59:36 2008
From: cervantes.james at gmail.com (James Cervantes)
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2008 17:59:36 -0700
Subject: [New-Poetry] Stafford the elder
In-Reply-To: <8CB00F1BC465541-1088-D9A@webmail-me07.sysops.aol.com>
References: <102020080416.16473.48FC0612000179A60000405922216125569B0A02D29B9B0EBF98019C050C0E040D@att.net>
	<8CB00D9CF0A1CBD-5B0-712@WEBMAIL-MA03.sysops.aol.com>
	<8D91C853-5E14-4E52-AA04-A1636ED04A1C@earthlink.net>
	<648208b60810200929k6db98d7eu4f07623bac61d0eb@mail.gmail.com>
	<5CD4CF5B-2109-4555-91FD-4FD7E3B31123@earthlink.net>
	<8CB00F1BC465541-1088-D9A@webmail-me07.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <648208b60810201759wd611691t421f3079d2959b4c@mail.gmail.com>

You don't need permission from anything or anyone.  We could, of course,
split hairs and get nowhere with this one.  Like, I'm writing and . . .
"I . . ."  Nope.  Shitcan it.

"Call . . . " Nope. Least effort.

etc.

- Jim

On Mon, Oct 20, 2008 at 10:38 AM, Millicent Accardi <millb at aol.com> wrote:

> I find my worst work gives me permission and space to produce my best
> work.  Putting the kibosh on any efforts before you carry them out stymies
> the creative process.  At least for me.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Millicent
>
>
> From: Halvard Johnson <halvard at earthlink.net>
> Sent: Mon, 20 Oct 2008 10:20 am
> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Stafford the elder
>
>  If writers didn't lower their standards sometimes, then their best work
> would really be their worst.
>
>  Hal
>
>   McCain / Palin -- Just say thanks but no thanks.
> They're a bridge to nowhere.
>
>  Halvard Johnson
> ================
> halvard at earthlink.net
> halvard at gmail.com
> http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html
> http://entropyandme.blogspot.com
> http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com
> http://www.hamiltonstone.org
> http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html
>
>
>
>  On Oct 20, 2008, at 11:29 AM, James Cervantes wrote:
>
>  Exactly.  When I was living in the northwest during the Stafford haydays
> (heydays?) we all joked about having to get up earlier than Stafford in
> order to catch the good ones.  The lower-your-standards thing should be
> taken with a grain of salt or a single malt.  It would be o.k. if it didn't
> continue with editors.
> - Jim
>
> On Mon, Oct 20, 2008 at 7:59 AM, Halvard Johnson <halvard at earthlink.net>wrote:
>
>> What I remember about William Stafford, apart from a number of his poems
>> and the fact that his poems were in the Saturday
>> Review of Literature on an average of every other week, was
>> that he'd write poems every day from 4 am to 11 am and then
>> do other things for the rest of the day. His advice to young
>> writers whose work wasn't coming up to their standards was
>> to lower their standards. I'd second that. Too many writers try
>> to write only their best stuff.
>>
>>  Hal
>>
>>    McCain / Palin -- Just say thanks but no thanks.
>> They're a bridge to nowhere.
>>
>>  Halvard Johnson
>> ================
>> halvard at earthlink.net
>> halvard at gmail.com
>> http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html
>> http://entropyandme.blogspot.com
>> http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com
>> http://www.hamiltonstone.org
>> http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html
>>
>>
>>
>>   On Oct 20, 2008, at 9:46 AM, JforJames at aol.com wrote:
>>
>>    ASK ME
>>
>>
>> Some time when the river is ice ask me
>> mistakes I have made. Ask me whether
>> what I have done is my life. Others
>> have come in their slow way into
>> my thought, and some have tried to help
>> or to hurt: ask me what difference
>> their strongest love or hate has made.
>>
>> I will listen to what you say.
>> You and I can turn and look
>> at the silent river and wait. We know
>> the current is there, hidden; and there
>> are comings and goings from miles away
>> that hold the stillness exactly before us.
>> What the river says, this is what I say.
>>
>>
>> --William Stafford
>>
>> -
>> This is one of my favorites by Stafford. He fell out of favor,
>> it seems to me, because he became the quintessential examplar
>> of the plain-style lyric poet. For a time plain-style was a prevailing
>> fashion of the day. (& it got boxed about by both the New Formalists
>> and the Post-Mo camps.)
>> Perhaps in these smoke & mirrors times there will be a return to plain
>> (the poem as clear pane) and away from obfuscated or oblique.
>>
>> Finnegan
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: blacksox at att.net
>> To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>> Sent: Mon, 20 Oct 2008 12:16 am
>> Subject: [New-Poetry] Stafford awarded $20,000
>>
>>  Maybe I am alone in my being a fan of William Stafford.
>> His work has always been political. Most likely from his
>> being an conscious objector in WWII. He was never experimental,
>> but the spirit of his work, to advance the human condition,
>> stands on its own merit.
>>
>> An Introduction to Some Poems
>>
>>
>>
>>  ------------------------------
>> McCain or Obama? Stay updated on coverage of the Presidential race while
>> you browse - Download Now!<http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1211139166x1200680084/aol?redir=http://toolbar.aol.com/elections/download.html?ncid=emlweusdown00000002>
>>  _______________________________________________
>> New-Poetry mailing list
>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> New-Poetry mailing list
>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>>
>>
>  _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
>
>  =
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing listNew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.eduhttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
>
> ------------------------------
> McCain or Obama? Stay updated on coverage of the Presidential race while
> you browse - Download Now!<http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1211139166x1200680084/aol?redir=http://toolbar.aol.com/elections/download.html?ncid=emlweusdown00000002>
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
>


-- 
"Whatever gets you through the night, babe." - Frank Sinatra
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org
http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning
http://www.fieralingue.it/documenti/mr_bondo.pdf
http://www.poetserv.org/jvc/home/index.html
http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamescervantes/
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From Opus40-01 at opus40.org  Mon Oct 20 22:03:55 2008
From: Opus40-01 at opus40.org (TheOldMole)
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2008 22:03:55 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] Stafford the elder
In-Reply-To: <648208b60810201759wd611691t421f3079d2959b4c@mail.gmail.com>
References: <102020080416.16473.48FC0612000179A60000405922216125569B0A02D29B9B0EBF98019C050C0E040D@att.net>	<8CB00D9CF0A1CBD-5B0-712@WEBMAIL-MA03.sysops.aol.com>	<8D91C853-5E14-4E52-AA04-A1636ED04A1C@earthlink.net>	<648208b60810200929k6db98d7eu4f07623bac61d0eb@mail.gmail.com>	<5CD4CF5B-2109-4555-91FD-4FD7E3B31123@earthlink.net>	<8CB00F1BC465541-1088-D9A@webmail-me07.sysops.aol.com>
	<648208b60810201759wd611691t421f3079d2959b4c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <48FD388B.1020604@opus40.org>

Mill -- you have my permission.

James Cervantes wrote:
> You don't need permission from anything or anyone.  We could, of 
> course, split hairs and get nowhere with this one.  Like, I'm writing 
> and . . . 
>
> "I . . ."  Nope.  Shitcan it.
>
> "Call . . . " Nope. Least effort.
>
> etc.
>
> - Jim
>
> On Mon, Oct 20, 2008 at 10:38 AM, Millicent Accardi <millb at aol.com 
> <mailto:millb at aol.com>> wrote:
>
>     I find my worst work gives me permission and space to produce my
>     best work.  Putting the kibosh on any efforts before you carry
>     them out stymies the creative process.  At least for me.
>
>     Cheers,
>
>     Millicent
>
>
>     From: Halvard Johnson <halvard at earthlink.net
>     <mailto:halvard at earthlink.net>>
>     Sent: Mon, 20 Oct 2008 10:20 am
>     Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Stafford the elder
>
>     If writers didn't lower their standards sometimes, then their
>     best work would really be their worst.
>
>     Hal
>
>     McCain / Palin -- Just say thanks but no thanks.
>     They're a bridge to nowhere.
>
>     Halvard Johnson
>     ================
>     halvard at earthlink.net <mailto:halvard at earthlink.net>
>     halvard at gmail.com <mailto:halvard at gmail.com>
>     http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html
>     <http://home.earthlink.net/%7Ehalvard/index.html>
>     http://entropyandme.blogspot.com <http://entropyandme.blogspot.com/> 
>     http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com
>     <http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com/>
>     http://www.hamiltonstone.org <http://www.hamiltonstone.org/>
>     http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html
>     <http://home.earthlink.net/%7Ehalvard/vidalocabooks.html>
>
>
>
>     On Oct 20, 2008, at 11:29 AM, James Cervantes wrote:
>
>>     Exactly.  When I was living in the northwest during the Stafford
>>     haydays (heydays?) we all joked about having to get up earlier
>>     than Stafford in order to catch the good ones.  The
>>     lower-your-standards thing should be taken with a grain of salt
>>     or a single malt.  It would be o.k. if it didn't continue with
>>     editors.
>>
>>     - Jim
>>
>>     On Mon, Oct 20, 2008 at 7:59 AM, Halvard Johnson
>>     <halvard at earthlink.net <mailto:halvard at earthlink.net>> wrote:
>>
>>         What I remember about William Stafford, apart from a number
>>         of his poems and the fact that his poems were in the Saturday
>>         Review of Literature on an average of every other week, was
>>         that he'd write poems every day from 4 am to 11 am and then
>>         do other things for the rest of the day. His advice to young
>>         writers whose work wasn't coming up to their standards was
>>         to lower their standards. I'd second that. Too many writers try
>>         to write only their best stuff.
>>
>>         Hal
>>
>>         McCain / Palin -- Just say thanks but no thanks.
>>         They're a bridge to nowhere.
>>
>>         Halvard Johnson
>>         ================
>>         halvard at earthlink.net <mailto:halvard at earthlink.net>
>>         halvard at gmail.com <mailto:halvard at gmail.com>
>>         http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html
>>         <http://home.earthlink.net/%7Ehalvard/index.html>
>>         http://entropyandme.blogspot.com
>>         <http://entropyandme.blogspot.com/> 
>>         http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com
>>         <http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com/>
>>         http://www.hamiltonstone.org <http://www.hamiltonstone.org/>
>>         http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html
>>         <http://home.earthlink.net/%7Ehalvard/vidalocabooks.html>
>>
>>
>>
>>         On Oct 20, 2008, at 9:46 AM, JforJames at aol.com
>>         <mailto:JforJames at aol.com> wrote:
>>
>>>         ASK ME
>>>
>>>
>>>         Some time when the river is ice ask me
>>>         mistakes I have made. Ask me whether
>>>         what I have done is my life. Others
>>>         have come in their slow way into
>>>         my thought, and some have tried to help
>>>         or to hurt: ask me what difference
>>>         their strongest love or hate has made.
>>>
>>>         I will listen to what you say.
>>>         You and I can turn and look
>>>         at the silent river and wait. We know
>>>         the current is there, hidden; and there
>>>         are comings and goings from miles away
>>>         that hold the stillness exactly before us.
>>>         What the river says, this is what I say.
>>>
>>>
>>>         --William Stafford
>>>
>>>         -
>>>         This is one of my favorites by Stafford. He fell out of favor,
>>>         it seems to me, because he became the quintessential examplar
>>>         of the plain-style lyric poet. For a time plain-style was a
>>>         prevailing
>>>         fashion of the day. (& it got boxed about by both the New
>>>         Formalists
>>>         and the Post-Mo camps.)
>>>         Perhaps in these smoke & mirrors times there will be a
>>>         return to plain
>>>         (the poem as clear pane) and away from obfuscated or oblique. 
>>>
>>>         Finnegan
>>>
>>>         -----Original Message-----
>>>         From: blacksox at att.net <mailto:blacksox at att.net>
>>>         To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>>>         <mailto:new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
>>>         Sent: Mon, 20 Oct 2008 12:16 am
>>>         Subject: [New-Poetry] Stafford awarded $20,000
>>>
>>>         Maybe I am alone in my being a fan of William Stafford.
>>>         His work has always been political. Most likely from his
>>>         being an conscious objector in WWII. He was never experimental,
>>>         but the spirit of his work, to advance the human condition,
>>>         stands on its own merit.
>>>          
>>>         An Introduction to Some Poems
>>>          
>>>          
>>>
>>>         ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>         McCain or Obama? Stay updated on coverage of the
>>>         Presidential race while you browse - Download Now!
>>>         <http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1211139166x1200680084/aol?redir=http://toolbar.aol.com/elections/download.html?ncid=emlweusdown00000002>
>>>
>>>         _______________________________________________
>>>         New-Poetry mailing list
>>>         New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu <mailto:New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
>>>         http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>>
>>
>>         _______________________________________________
>>         New-Poetry mailing list
>>         New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu <mailto:New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
>>         http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>>
>>
>>     _______________________________________________
>>     New-Poetry mailing list
>>     New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu <mailto:New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
>>     http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
>     =
>
>     _______________________________________________
>     New-Poetry mailing list
>     New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu <mailto:New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
>     http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
>
>     ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>     McCain or Obama? Stay updated on coverage of the Presidential race
>     while you browse - Download Now!
>     <http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1211139166x1200680084/aol?redir=http://toolbar.aol.com/elections/download.html?ncid=emlweusdown00000002>
>
>
>     _______________________________________________
>     New-Poetry mailing list
>     New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu <mailto:New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
>     http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
>
>
>
> -- 
> "Whatever gets you through the night, babe." - Frank Sinatra
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org
> http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning
> http://www.fieralingue.it/documenti/mr_bondo.pdf
> http://www.poetserv.org/jvc/home/index.html
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamescervantes/
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>   

-- 
Tad Richards
http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/
http://opusforty.blogspot.com/

Don't forget to order your copy of FILM NOIR!
http://stores.lulu.com/store.php?fAcctID=2712239



From millb at aol.com  Mon Oct 20 22:14:21 2008
From: millb at aol.com (Millicent Accardi)
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2008 22:14:21 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] Stafford the elder
In-Reply-To: <48FD388B.1020604@opus40.org>
References: <102020080416.16473.48FC0612000179A60000405922216125569B0A02D29B9B0EBF98019C050C0E040D@att.net>	<8CB00D9CF0A1CBD-5B0-712@WEBMAIL-MA03.sysops.aol.com>	<8D91C853-5E14-4E52-AA04-A1636ED04A1C@earthlink.net>	<648208b60810200929k6db98d7eu4f07623bac61d0eb@mail.gmail.com>	<5CD4CF5B-2109-4555-91FD-4FD7E3B31123@earthlink.net>	<8CB00F1BC465541-1088-D9A@webmail-me07.sysops.aol.com><648208b60810201759wd611691t421f3079d2959b4c@mail.gmail.com>
	<48FD388B.1020604@opus40.org>
Message-ID: <8CB0139DD5B8C05-E88-1F45@webmail-me07.sysops.aol.com>

Thanks. I appreciate it!

:)


-----Original Message-----
From: TheOldMole <Opus40-01 at opus40.org>
Sent: Mon, 20 Oct 2008 7:03 pm
Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Stafford the elder


Mill -- you have my permission.?
?
James Cervantes wrote:?
> You don't need permission from anything or anyone. We could, of > course, split hairs and get nowhere with this one. Like, I'm writing > and . . . >?
> "I . . ." Nope. Shitcan it.?
>?
> "Call . . . " Nope. Least effort.?
>?
> etc.?
>?
> - Jim?
>?
> On Mon, Oct 20, 2008 at 10:38 AM, Millicent Accardi <millb at aol.com > <mailto:millb at aol.com>> wrote:?
>?
> I find my worst work gives me permission and space to produce my?
> best work. Putting the kibosh on any efforts before you carry?
> them out stymies the creative process. At least for me.?
>?
> Cheers,?
>?
> Millicent?
>?
>?
> From: Halvard Johnson <halvard at earthlink.net?
> <mailto:halvard at earthlink.net>>?
> Sent: Mon, 20 Oct 2008 10:20 am?
> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Stafford the elder?
>?
> If writers didn't lower their standards sometimes, then their?
> best work would really be their worst.?
>?
> Hal?
>?
> McCain / Palin -- Just say thanks but no thanks.?
> They're a bridge to nowhere.?
>?
> Halvard Johnson?
> ================?
> halvard at earthlink.net <mailto:halvard at earthlink.net>?
> halvard at gmail.com <mailto:halvard at gmail.com>?
> http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html?
> <http://home.earthlink.net/%7Ehalvard/index.html>?
> http://entropyandme.blogspot.com <http://entropyandme.blogspot.com/> > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com?
> <http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com/>?
> http://www.hamiltonstone.org <http://www.hamiltonstone.org/>?
> http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html?
> <http://home.earthlink.net/%7Ehalvard/vidalocabooks.html>?
>?
>?
>?
> On Oct 20, 2008, at 11:29 AM, James Cervantes wrote:?
>?
>> Exactly. When I was living in the northwest during the Stafford?
>> haydays (heydays?) we all joked about having to get up earlier?
>> than Stafford in order to catch the good ones. The?
>> lower-your-standards thing should be taken with a grain of salt?
>> or a single malt. It would be o.k. if it didn't continue with?
>> editors.?
>>?
>> - Jim?
>>?
>> On Mon, Oct 20, 2008 at 7:59 AM, Halvard Johnson?
>> <halvard at earthlink.net <mailto:halvard at earthlink.net>> wrote:?
>>?
>> What I remember about William Stafford, apart from a number?
>> of his poems and the fact that his poems were in the Saturday?
>> Review of Literature on an average of every other week, was?
>> that he'd write poems every day from 4 am to 11 am and then?
>> do other things for the rest of the day. His advice to young?
>> writers whose work wasn't coming up to their standards was?
>> to lower their standards. I'd second that. Too many writers try?
>> to write only their best stuff.?
>>?
>> Hal?
>>?
>> McCain / Palin -- Just say thanks but no thanks.?
>> They're a bridge to nowhere.?
>>?
>> Halvard Johnson?
>> ================?
>> halvard at earthlink.net <mailto:halvard at earthlink.net>?
>> halvard at gmail.com <mailto:halvard at gmail.com>?
>> http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html?
>> <http://home.earthlink.net/%7Ehalvard/index.html>?
>> http://entropyandme.blogspot.com?
>> <http://entropyandme.blogspot.com/> >> http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com?
>> <http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com/>?
>> http://www.hamiltonstone.org <http://www.hamiltonstone.org/>?
>> http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html?
>> <http://home.earthlink.net/%7Ehalvard/vidalocabooks.html>?
>>?
>>?
>>?
>> On Oct 20, 2008, at 9:46 AM, JforJames at aol.com?
>> <mailto:JforJames at aol.com> wrote:?
>>?
>>> ASK ME?
>>>?
>>>?
>>> Some time when the river is ice ask me?
>>> mistakes I have made. Ask me whether?
>>> what I have done is my life. Others?
>>> have come in their slow way into?
>>> my thought, and some have tried to help?
>>> or to hurt: ask me what difference?
>>> their strongest love or hate has made.?
>>>?
>>> I will listen to what you say.?
>>> You and I can turn and look?
>>> at the silent river and wait. We know?
>>> the current is there, hidden; and there?
>>> are comings and goings from miles away?
>>> that hold the stillness exactly before us.?
>>> What the river says, this is what I say.?
>>>?
>>>?
>>> --William Stafford?
>>>?
>>> -?
>>> This is one of my favorites by Stafford. He fell out of favor,?
>>> it seems to me, because he became the quintessential examplar?
>>> of the plain-style lyric poet. For a time plain-style was a?
>>> prevailing?
>>> fashion of the day. (& it got boxed about by both the New?
>>> Formalists?
>>> and the Post-Mo camps.)?
>>> Perhaps in these smoke & mirrors times there will be a?
>>> return to plain?
>>> (the poem as clear pane) and away from obfuscated or oblique. >>>?
>>> Finnegan?
>>>?
>>> -----Original Message-----?
>>> From: blacksox at att.net <mailto:blacksox at att.net>?
>>> To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu?
>>> <mailto:new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>?
>>> Sent: Mon, 20 Oct 2008 12:16 am?
>>> Subject: [New-Poetry] Stafford awarded $20,000?
>>>?
>>> Maybe I am alone in my being a fan of William Stafford.?
>>> His work has always been political. Most likely from his?
>>> being an conscious objector in WWII. He was never experimental,?
>>> but the spirit of his work, to advance the human condition,?
>>> stands on its own merit.?
>>> >>> An Introduction to Some Poems?
>>> >>> >>>?
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------?
>>> McCain or Obama? Stay updated on coverage of the?
>>> Presidential race while you browse - Download Now!?
>>> <http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1211139166x1200680084/aol?redir=http://toolbar.aol.com/elections/download.html?ncid=emlweusdown00000002>?
>>>?
>>> _______________________________________________?
>>> New-Poetry mailing list?
>>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu <mailto:New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>?
>>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry?
>>?
>>?
>> _______________________________________________?
>> New-Poetry mailing list?
>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu <mailto:New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>?
>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry?
>>?
>>?
>> _______________________________________________?
>> New-Poetry mailing list?
>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu <mailto:New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>?
>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry?
>?
> =?
>?
> _______________________________________________?
> New-Poetry mailing list?
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu <mailto:New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>?
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry?
>?
>?
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------?
> McCain or Obama? Stay updated on coverage of the Presidential race?
> while you browse - Download Now!?
> <http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1211139166x1200680084/aol?redir=http://toolbar.aol.com/elections/download.html?ncid=emlweusdown00000002>?
>?
>?
> _______________________________________________?
> New-Poetry mailing list?
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu <mailto:New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>?
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry?
>?
>?
>?
>?
> -- > "Whatever gets you through the night, babe." - Frank Sinatra?
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~?
> Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org?
> http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning?
> http://www.fieralingue.it/documenti/mr_bondo.pdf?
> http://www.poetserv.org/jvc/home/index.html?
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamescervantes/?
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------?
>?
> _______________________________________________?
> New-Poetry mailing list?
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu?
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry?
> ?
-- Tad Richards?
http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/?
http://opusforty.blogspot.com/?
?
Don't forget to order your copy of FILM NOIR!?
http://stores.lulu.com/store.php?fAcctID=2712239?
?
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From anny.ballardini at gmail.com  Tue Oct 21 05:13:30 2008
From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2008 11:13:30 +0200
Subject: [New-Poetry] students' stuff
Message-ID: <4b65c2d70810210213u7a483261s273b35f9e4913f02@mail.gmail.com>

a lot and a lot to correct, especially free compositions, I chuckle
sometimes:

"On the 12th of June, 2008, Avril was in Bolzano and my friend and I went to
see her concert. When she came on stage and we saw her we cried like
fountains, because we were too happy to see her!!"

By the way, I don't know if you know, but it seems that Avril has

"long blonde hair with pink extentions."

I would really like to know what they are, are we missing something?

Feeling like a buried donkey, as they say in Italy.

-- 
Anny Ballardini
http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html
I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing
star!
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From grahamd at ripon.edu  Tue Oct 21 08:15:10 2008
From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham)
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2008 07:15:10 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Feeling like a buried donkey
In-Reply-To: <4b65c2d70810210213u7a483261s273b35f9e4913f02@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4b65c2d70810210213u7a483261s273b35f9e4913f02@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <2C3CA237-AF45-4C67-B3D1-5554F53A9769@ripon.edu>




On Oct 21, 2008, at 4:13 AM, Anny Ballardini wrote:
> Feeling like a buried donkey, as they say in Italy.
>
> -- 
> Anny Ballardini
-----------------------------------------

Idiomatic


It is a big question to pose so early in the morning
or ?in the light woven by birds?
as the Estonians say,
but still I must ask what is my place in life?
my ?seat on the invisible train?,
as they say in Hungary.
I mean I am just sitting here
in a lawn chair listening to a thrush,
?the little entertainer of the woods?,
as the Swiss call him,
while out there in the world
mobs of people are rushing over bridges
in and out of cities?
Vegetables grow heavy in their fields,
clouds fly across the ?face of the earth?
as we call it in English,
and sometimes rockets lift off in the distance ?
and I mean that quite literally,
?from the top of the table? as the Portuguese have it,
real rockets rising from the horizon,
or ?the big line if you?re an Australian,
leaving behind rich gowns of exhaust smoke,
long, smooth trajectories,
and always the ocean below,
?the water machine? as the South Sea islanders put it ?
everything takes place right on schedule,
?by the clock of the devil?,
as our grandparents were fond of saying.
And still here I sit with my shirt off,
the dog at my side, daydreaming ?
?juggling balls of cotton?, as they like to say in France.


--Billy Collins.  Sailing Alone Around the Room.



========================================
David Graham
grahamd at ripon.edu

Home Page:
http://web.mac.com/drjazz

Poetry Library:
http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html
==========================================



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From jjeffreymail at yahoo.com  Tue Oct 21 08:42:22 2008
From: jjeffreymail at yahoo.com (John Jeffrey)
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2008 05:42:22 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [New-Poetry] students' stuff
Message-ID: <671711.75174.qm@web54111.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

Do you mean who Avril is?  Or what pink extensions are?  Either way, Avril Lavigne is a young pop singer.  Here's a pic:

http://www.starpulse.com/Music/Lavigne,_Avril/gallery/Avril-Lavigne-rca13/


Sadly, I know this.

JohnJ




----- Original Message ----
From: Anny Ballardini <anny.ballardini at gmail.com>
To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &, Views" <new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2008 5:13:30 AM
Subject: [New-Poetry] students' stuff

a lot and a lot to correct, especially free compositions, I chuckle sometimes:

"On the 12th of June, 2008, Avril was in Bolzano and my friend and I went to see her concert. When she came on stage and we saw her we cried like fountains, because we were too happy to see her!!"

By the way, I don't know if you know, but it seems that Avril has 

"long blonde hair with pink extentions."

I would really like to know what they are, are we missing something?

Feeling like a buried donkey, as they say in Italy.

-- 
Anny Ballardini
http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html
I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! 


      
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From anny.ballardini at gmail.com  Tue Oct 21 08:51:24 2008
From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2008 14:51:24 +0200
Subject: [New-Poetry] students' stuff
In-Reply-To: <671711.75174.qm@web54111.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <671711.75174.qm@web54111.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4b65c2d70810210551q695a8d9ds72cf7468ef21b95f@mail.gmail.com>

Oh I saw the pic, my student was accurate enough to print it out with her
text. Thanks anyway.

On Tue, Oct 21, 2008 at 2:42 PM, John Jeffrey <jjeffreymail at yahoo.com>wrote:

> Do you mean who Avril is?  Or what pink extensions are?  Either way, Avril
> Lavigne is a young pop singer.  Here's a pic:
>
> http://www.starpulse.com/Music/Lavigne,_Avril/gallery/Avril-Lavigne-rca13/
>
> Sadly, I know this.
>
> JohnJ
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Anny Ballardini <anny.ballardini at gmail.com>
> To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &, Views" <
> new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
> Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2008 5:13:30 AM
> Subject: [New-Poetry] students' stuff
>
> a lot and a lot to correct, especially free compositions, I chuckle
> sometimes:
>
> "On the 12th of June, 2008, Avril was in Bolzano and my friend and I went
> to see her concert. When she came on stage and we saw her we cried like
> fountains, because we were too happy to see her!!"
>
> By the way, I don't know if you know, but it seems that Avril has
>
> "long blonde hair with pink extentions."
>
> I would really like to know what they are, are we missing something?
>
> Feeling like a buried donkey, as they say in Italy.
>
> --
> Anny Ballardini
> http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
> http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
> http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html
> I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing
> star!
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
>


-- 
Anny Ballardini
http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html
I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing
star!
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From anny.ballardini at gmail.com  Tue Oct 21 08:53:24 2008
From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2008 14:53:24 +0200
Subject: [New-Poetry] Feeling like a buried donkey
In-Reply-To: <2C3CA237-AF45-4C67-B3D1-5554F53A9769@ripon.edu>
References: <4b65c2d70810210213u7a483261s273b35f9e4913f02@mail.gmail.com>
	<2C3CA237-AF45-4C67-B3D1-5554F53A9769@ripon.edu>
Message-ID: <4b65c2d70810210553r1e8b811cw958beb9b3a67595d@mail.gmail.com>

This is _lovely_! Thank you so much!
Have a great day.

Anny

On Tue, Oct 21, 2008 at 2:15 PM, David Graham <grahamd at ripon.edu> wrote:

>
>
>
> On Oct 21, 2008, at 4:13 AM, Anny Ballardini wrote:
>
> Feeling like a buried donkey, as they say in Italy.
>
> --
> Anny Ballardini
>
> -----------------------------------------
>
> *Idiomatic *
>
>
> It is a big question to pose so early in the morning
> or "in the light woven by birds"
> as the Estonians say,
> but still I must ask what is my place in life?
> my "seat on the invisible train",
> as they say in Hungary.
> I mean I am just sitting here
> in a lawn chair listening to a thrush,
> "the little entertainer of the woods",
> as the Swiss call him,
> while out there in the world
> mobs of people are rushing over bridges
> in and out of cities?
> Vegetables grow heavy in their fields,
> clouds fly across the "face of the earth"
> as we call it in English,
> and sometimes rockets lift off in the distance ?
> and I mean that quite literally,
> "from the top of the table" as the Portuguese have it,
> real rockets rising from the horizon,
> or "the big line if you're an Australian,
> leaving behind rich gowns of exhaust smoke,
> long, smooth trajectories,
> and always the ocean below,
> "the water machine" as the South Sea islanders put it ?
> everything takes place right on schedule,
> "by the clock of the devil",
> as our grandparents were fond of saying.
> And still here I sit with my shirt off,
> the dog at my side, daydreaming ?
> "juggling balls of cotton", as they like to say in France.
>
>
> --Billy Collins.  *Sailing Alone Around the Room.*
>
>
>
> ========================================
> David Graham
> grahamd at ripon.edu
>
> Home Page:
> http://web.mac.com/drjazz
>
> Poetry Library:
> http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html
> ==========================================
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
>


-- 
Anny Ballardini
http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html
I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing
star!
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From rog3r.day at gmail.com  Tue Oct 21 09:10:21 2008
From: rog3r.day at gmail.com (Roger Day)
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2008 14:10:21 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] students' stuff
In-Reply-To: <4b65c2d70810210213u7a483261s273b35f9e4913f02@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4b65c2d70810210213u7a483261s273b35f9e4913f02@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <fde503480810210610p65e42dcdyf7b8b4d8daeb05f4@mail.gmail.com>

"don't get your donkey get stuck in a ditch" - Finnish saying.

On 10/21/08, Anny Ballardini <anny.ballardini at gmail.com> wrote:

> Feeling like a buried donkey, as they say in Italy.


-- 
My Stuff: http://www.badstep.net/
"I began to warm and chill
to objects and their fields"
Nick Cave & The Bad Seeds


From grahamd at ripon.edu  Tue Oct 21 09:16:48 2008
From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham)
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2008 08:16:48 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: students' stuff
In-Reply-To: <fde503480810210610p65e42dcdyf7b8b4d8daeb05f4@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4b65c2d70810210213u7a483261s273b35f9e4913f02@mail.gmail.com>
	<fde503480810210610p65e42dcdyf7b8b4d8daeb05f4@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <E38E00D3-9CD3-421F-B941-0C7154B10C1F@ripon.edu>

Last year a student used an idiom in class that I'd never heard  
before:  "Well, shit fire and save the matches!"  When I asked him  
about it, he said it was something his grandfather used to say.

I've been trying to find a way to use that ever since.

One of my all-time favorite expressions was used by our car mechanic  
in the hills of western Virginia, who reported that our newly-fixed  
car would "run like a scalded dog."  Years later I was talking about  
idioms and regionalisms in another class, and quoted that phrase.  A  
student began laughing uncontrollably.  Turns out it was something  
*his* grandfather always said, and his grandfather was from, you  
guessed it, the hills of western Virginia.


========================================
David Graham
grahamd at ripon.edu

Home Page:
http://web.mac.com/drjazz

Poetry Library:
http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html
==========================================




On Oct 21, 2008, at 8:10 AM, Roger Day wrote:

> "don't get your donkey get stuck in a ditch" - Finnish saying.
>
> On 10/21/08, Anny Ballardini <anny.ballardini at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Feeling like a buried donkey, as they say in Italy.
>
>
> -- 
> My Stuff: http://www.badstep.net/
> "I began to warm and chill
> to objects and their fields"
> Nick Cave & The Bad Seeds
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry

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From cervantes.james at gmail.com  Tue Oct 21 09:37:40 2008
From: cervantes.james at gmail.com (James Cervantes)
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2008 06:37:40 -0700
Subject: [New-Poetry] students' stuff
In-Reply-To: <fde503480810210610p65e42dcdyf7b8b4d8daeb05f4@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4b65c2d70810210213u7a483261s273b35f9e4913f02@mail.gmail.com>
	<fde503480810210610p65e42dcdyf7b8b4d8daeb05f4@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <648208b60810210637k631dc61bx16f9b3adf9fb4c3c@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Oct 21, 2008 at 6:10 AM, Roger Day <rog3r.day at gmail.com> wrote:

> "don't get your donkey get stuck in a ditch" - Finnish saying.


Nor your Don Quixote!
- Jim


>
>
> On 10/21/08, Anny Ballardini <anny.ballardini at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Feeling like a buried donkey, as they say in Italy.
>
>
> --
> My Stuff: http://www.badstep.net/
> "I began to warm and chill
> to objects and their fields"
> Nick Cave & The Bad Seeds
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
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From anny.ballardini at gmail.com  Tue Oct 21 10:04:34 2008
From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2008 16:04:34 +0200
Subject: [New-Poetry] students' stuff
In-Reply-To: <648208b60810210637k631dc61bx16f9b3adf9fb4c3c@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4b65c2d70810210213u7a483261s273b35f9e4913f02@mail.gmail.com>
	<fde503480810210610p65e42dcdyf7b8b4d8daeb05f4@mail.gmail.com>
	<648208b60810210637k631dc61bx16f9b3adf9fb4c3c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4b65c2d70810210704i2f2b9920h666f2727823d7199@mail.gmail.com>

I think Roger wanted to say Moose,
don't get your moose stuck in a mill,
or similar...


On Tue, Oct 21, 2008 at 3:37 PM, James Cervantes
<cervantes.james at gmail.com>wrote:

>
>
> On Tue, Oct 21, 2008 at 6:10 AM, Roger Day <rog3r.day at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> "don't get your donkey get stuck in a ditch" - Finnish saying.
>
>
> Nor your Don Quixote!
> - Jim
>
>
>>
>>
>> On 10/21/08, Anny Ballardini <anny.ballardini at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> > Feeling like a buried donkey, as they say in Italy.
>>
>>
>> --
>> My Stuff: http://www.badstep.net/
>> "I began to warm and chill
>> to objects and their fields"
>> Nick Cave & The Bad Seeds
>> _______________________________________________
>> New-Poetry mailing list
>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
>


-- 
Anny Ballardini
http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html
I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing
star!
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From amyhappens at yahoo.com  Tue Oct 21 10:43:12 2008
From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king)
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2008 07:43:12 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [New-Poetry] New Interview w Eleni Sikelianos
Message-ID: <687109.34618.qm@web83307.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>

New Interview with Eleni Sikelianos in Manhattan on Oct. 15th about her recent book, THE BODY CLOCK ----->

http://writing.upenn.edu/pennsound/x/Sikelianos.html
http://writing.upenn.edu/pennsound/x/Sikelianos.html


Enjoy,

Amy

_______





Recent work

http://www.writing.upenn.edu/pennsound/x/King.html



Amy's Alias

http://amyking.org/

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 
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From rog3r.day at gmail.com  Tue Oct 21 12:18:45 2008
From: rog3r.day at gmail.com (Roger Day)
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2008 17:18:45 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] students' stuff
In-Reply-To: <4b65c2d70810210704i2f2b9920h666f2727823d7199@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4b65c2d70810210213u7a483261s273b35f9e4913f02@mail.gmail.com>
	<fde503480810210610p65e42dcdyf7b8b4d8daeb05f4@mail.gmail.com>
	<648208b60810210637k631dc61bx16f9b3adf9fb4c3c@mail.gmail.com>
	<4b65c2d70810210704i2f2b9920h666f2727823d7199@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <fde503480810210918y39f530f1n7cce3ae7e12e7ce4@mail.gmail.com>

Could be - it's years since I've spoken to the finn who told me that.

Roger
On 10/21/08, Anny Ballardini <anny.ballardini at gmail.com> wrote:
> I think Roger wanted to say Moose,
> don't get your moose stuck in a mill,
> or similar...
>
>
>
> On Tue, Oct 21, 2008 at 3:37 PM, James Cervantes <cervantes.james at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Tue, Oct 21, 2008 at 6:10 AM, Roger Day <rog3r.day at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > "don't get your donkey get stuck in a ditch" - Finnish saying.
> >
> >
> >
> > Nor your Don Quixote!
> >
> >
> > - Jim
> >
> >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On 10/21/08, Anny Ballardini <anny.ballardini at gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Feeling like a buried donkey, as they say in Italy.
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > My Stuff: http://www.badstep.net/
> > > "I began to warm and chill
> > > to objects and their fields"
> > > Nick Cave & The Bad Seeds
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > New-Poetry mailing list
> > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > New-Poetry mailing list
> > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
> >
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Anny Ballardini
> http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
> http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
>  http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html
> I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing
> star!
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>  New-Poetry mailing list
>  New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>  http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
>


-- 
My Stuff: http://www.badstep.net/
"I began to warm and chill
to objects and their fields"
Nick Cave & The Bad Seeds


From Opus40-01 at opus40.org  Tue Oct 21 18:48:11 2008
From: Opus40-01 at opus40.org (TheOldMole)
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2008 18:48:11 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] Things one should not admit
Message-ID: <48FE5C2B.10104@opus40.org>

I took the "fill in the words in 'The Road Not Taken'" quiz -- 
http://www.sporcle.com/games/text/tworoads -- and only got 17 right,

-- 
Tad Richards
http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/
http://opusforty.blogspot.com/

Don't forget to order your copy of FILM NOIR!
http://stores.lulu.com/store.php?fAcctID=2712239



From wwmorgan at ilstu.edu  Tue Oct 21 19:28:43 2008
From: wwmorgan at ilstu.edu (Bill Morgan)
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2008 18:28:43 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Things one should not admit
In-Reply-To: <48FE5C2B.10104@opus40.org>
References: <48FE5C2B.10104@opus40.org>
Message-ID: <008101c933d4$c26e4660$474ad320$@edu>

I got 24.

Bill Morgan

I took the "fill in the words in 'The Road Not Taken'" quiz -- 
http://www.sporcle.com/games/text/tworoads -- and only got 17 right,

-- 
Tad Richards
http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/
http://opusforty.blogspot.com/

Don't forget to order your copy of FILM NOIR!
http://stores.lulu.com/store.php?fAcctID=2712239

_______________________________________________
New-Poetry mailing list
New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry




From halvard at earthlink.net  Tue Oct 21 19:52:39 2008
From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson)
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2008 18:52:39 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] The Trouble
Message-ID: <1D4BE45C-C238-48ED-8E03-8AB1058DC5A2@earthlink.net>

The Trouble

with not being born
is that you have to invent
all the details.


Hal

Halvard Johnson
================
halvard at earthlink.net
halvard at gmail.com
http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html
http://entropyandme.blogspot.com
http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com
http://www.hamiltonstone.org
http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html



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From grahamd at ripon.edu  Tue Oct 21 20:04:08 2008
From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham)
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2008 19:04:08 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Things one should not admit
In-Reply-To: <008101c933d4$c26e4660$474ad320$@edu>
References: <48FE5C2B.10104@opus40.org> <008101c933d4$c26e4660$474ad320$@edu>
Message-ID: <5F8B0F04-D474-469F-8050-649735193F11@ripon.edu>

I got 32 out of 32, which is not impressive, because this is one of  
the handful of poems I have memorized.  What was surprising was how  
hard I had to think to fill in the blanks.  I can recite it with my  
eyes closed, but typing in all those yellow blanks just confused me.

I did it a second time, and discovered that the blank words changed.


========================================
David Graham
grahamd at ripon.edu

Home Page:
http://web.mac.com/drjazz

Poetry Library:
http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html
==========================================




On Oct 21, 2008, at 6:28 PM, Bill Morgan wrote:

> I got 24.
>
> Bill Morgan
>
> I took the "fill in the words in 'The Road Not Taken'" quiz --
> http://www.sporcle.com/games/text/tworoads -- and only got 17 right,
>
> -- 
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From jbalizsprince at googlemail.com  Tue Oct 21 22:34:19 2008
From: jbalizsprince at googlemail.com (Judy Prince)
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2008 22:34:19 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] The Trouble
In-Reply-To: <1D4BE45C-C238-48ED-8E03-8AB1058DC5A2@earthlink.net>
References: <1D4BE45C-C238-48ED-8E03-8AB1058DC5A2@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <7db1d01b0810211934h68678f25y81eaf790c2798ace@mail.gmail.com>

;-)

2008/10/21 Halvard Johnson <halvard at earthlink.net>

> The Trouble
> with not being born
> is that you have to invent
> all the details.
>
>
> Hal
>
> Halvard Johnson
> ================
> halvard at earthlink.net
> halvard at gmail.com
> http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html
> http://entropyandme.blogspot.com
> http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com
> http://www.hamiltonstone.org
> http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
>
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From suelin6787 at charter.net  Wed Oct 22 06:07:09 2008
From: suelin6787 at charter.net (Linda Sue Grimes)
Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2008 05:07:09 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Things one should not admit
References: <48FE5C2B.10104@opus40.org> <008101c933d4$c26e4660$474ad320$@edu>
	<5F8B0F04-D474-469F-8050-649735193F11@ripon.edu>
Message-ID: <77E0A27BBD1247C0BF89B91B4F815E64@LindaSue>

Maybe I shouldn't admit it, but I got all of them too.  I haven't actually memorized it, but I used to teach it, and I have written about it for my Suite101.com Poetry topic.  

respectfully,
lsg
___________________

Blessings,
Linda Sue Grimes
Feature Writer for Poetry 
http://poetry.suite101.com

----- Original Message ----- 
  From: David Graham 
  To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &amp;Views 
  Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2008 7:04 PM
  Subject: [New-Poetry] Things one should not admit


  I got 32 out of 32, which is not impressive, because this is one of the handful of poems I have memorized.  What was surprising was how hard I had to think to fill in the blanks.  I can recite it with my eyes closed, but typing in all those yellow blanks just confused me.


  I did it a second time, and discovered that the blank words changed.




  ========================================
  David Graham
  grahamd at ripon.edu


  Home Page:
  http://web.mac.com/drjazz


  Poetry Library:
  http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html
  ==========================================







  On Oct 21, 2008, at 6:28 PM, Bill Morgan wrote:


    I got 24.


    Bill Morgan


    I took the "fill in the words in 'The Road Not Taken'" quiz -- 
    http://www.sporcle.com/games/text/tworoads -- and only got 17 right,


    -- 


------------------------------------------------------------------------------


  _______________________________________________
  New-Poetry mailing list
  New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
  http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
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From suelin6787 at charter.net  Wed Oct 22 06:11:35 2008
From: suelin6787 at charter.net (Linda Sue Grimes)
Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2008 05:11:35 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Things one should not admit
References: <48FE5C2B.10104@opus40.org>
Message-ID: <83B3DBF4062647208682D5FDBF28FBE2@LindaSue>

How long did it take you?  It does time you also.  You have 6  minutes...I had 4:08 minutes left...nothing like bragging on a Wednesday morning.

respectfully,
lsg

____________________

Blessings,
Linda Sue Grimes
Feature Writer for Poetry 
http://poetry.suite101.com


  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: TheOldMole 
  To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &amp;Views 
  Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2008 5:48 PM
  Subject: [New-Poetry] Things one should not admit


  I took the "fill in the words in 'The Road Not Taken'" quiz -- 
  http://www.sporcle.com/games/text/tworoads -- and only got 17 right,

  -- 
  Tad Richards
  http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/
  http://opusforty.blogspot.com/

  Don't forget to order your copy of FILM NOIR!
  http://stores.lulu.com/store.php?fAcctID=2712239

  _______________________________________________
  New-Poetry mailing list
  New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
  http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
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From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net  Wed Oct 22 07:29:45 2008
From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman)
Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2008 06:29:45 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Things one should not admit
In-Reply-To: <83B3DBF4062647208682D5FDBF28FBE2@LindaSue>
References: <48FE5C2B.10104@opus40.org>
	<83B3DBF4062647208682D5FDBF28FBE2@LindaSue>
Message-ID: <48FF0EA9.5000701@nut-n-but.net>

I got the first and last words, but didn't bother with the others, which 
I'm SURE I would have gotten.

A thought: that the test-taker should also take the following test: fill 
in the blanks in the names on my list of twenty important otherstream 
poets, like _ar_ K-m--o-.  I suspect a given test-taker's scores on the 
two tests would generally be inversely proportionate.

--Bob G.



From Opus40-01 at opus40.org  Wed Oct 22 09:25:51 2008
From: Opus40-01 at opus40.org (TheOldMole)
Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2008 09:25:51 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] Things one should not admit
In-Reply-To: <83B3DBF4062647208682D5FDBF28FBE2@LindaSue>
References: <48FE5C2B.10104@opus40.org>
	<83B3DBF4062647208682D5FDBF28FBE2@LindaSue>
Message-ID: <48FF29DF.4040902@opus40.org>

I know I'm going to end up the worst of everyone who actually does this.

Linda Sue Grimes wrote:
> How long did it take you?  It does time you also.  You have 6  
> minutes...I had 4:08 minutes left...nothing like bragging on a 
> Wednesday morning.
>  
> respectfully,
> lsg
>  
> ____________________
>  
> Blessings,
> Linda Sue Grimes
> Feature Writer for Poetry
> http://poetry.suite101.com
>  
>  
>
>     ----- Original Message -----
>     *From:* TheOldMole <mailto:Opus40-01 at opus40.org>
>     *To:* NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &amp;Views
>     <mailto:new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
>     *Sent:* Tuesday, October 21, 2008 5:48 PM
>     *Subject:* [New-Poetry] Things one should not admit
>
>     I took the "fill in the words in 'The Road Not Taken'" quiz --
>     http://www.sporcle.com/games/text/tworoads -- and only got 17 right,
>
>     -- 
>     Tad Richards
>     http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/
>     http://opusforty.blogspot.com/
>
>     Don't forget to order your copy of FILM NOIR!
>     http://stores.lulu.com/store.php?fAcctID=2712239
>
>     _______________________________________________
>     New-Poetry mailing list
>     New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu <mailto:New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
>     http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>   

-- 
Tad Richards
http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/
http://opusforty.blogspot.com/

Don't forget to order your copy of FILM NOIR!
http://stores.lulu.com/store.php?fAcctID=2712239



From edmundhardy at hotmail.com  Wed Oct 22 10:02:08 2008
From: edmundhardy at hotmail.com (Edmund Hardy)
Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2008 14:02:08 +0000
Subject: [New-Poetry] Tina Bass: Mouthings
Message-ID: <COL102-W7996C84D9F973E22E18140BA290@phx.gbl>













































"Intercapillary Editions"
plush degrees, said the cow, wrap the fees



presents:


Mouthings by Tina Bass

A book of talk.

6" x 9", jacket-hardcover binding, cream interior paper, 60 pages. ?8.96 plus ?3.50 p&p. 

Or download it for FREE.


Mummy:  It means that something has a hole all the way through it, like a straw has.  Can you think of anything else that is hollow?

Owen:  A bunny.

Mummy:  A bunny?

Owen:  Yes.  A bunny that's been shot by a bullet and the bullet has gone all the way through and left a hole.



Sources
and developmental origins are left behind in Tina Bass? fleet set of
scenes cut from conversations with her twin sons covering just over a
year. Speech which seemed to the poet worth archiving becomes art-action, a
journal which opens at the threshold of state schooling and continues
onwards. Coming across these tiny exchanges of power, acquisition,
socialisation and play, I read them in unravelling ways: as pieces from
a sequence of conversation novels which were somewhere splintering and
unifying; as the unsystematic studies or emblems of a parent; as an
investigative diagram of articulation. What is it that?s emplotted here? (editor Edmund Hardy)

Statement from the author:

On
the 6th September 2006 I wrote down a short conversation that I?d had
with my two young sons. I posted it onto a MySpace blog and two weeks
later recorded another, and then another; until it was suggested that I
gather them into a book.

I
had been aware for a quite some time that I was doing more than
recording the words of my children. Obviously the records serve as
memorabilia; the preservation of which will demonstrate to Leon and
Owen that their mother was paying attention. Each entry can be viewed
as an item in the memory box, placed alongside the first baby-grows and
the envelopes filled with milk teeth.

As
a female writer, writing in a way that foregrounds motherhood, I
believe that I have also been articulating something of the unsaid
feminine. I have recently been guided to Mary Kelly?s Postpartum
Document and have been fascinated by her passion for illustrating ?the
collaged life of women who choose to create and procreate?. That
particular work has been critiqued by many but it is when Mary
describes the Document as ?the rationalisation of a difficult
experience? or compensation for giving birth and losing control, that I
find myself smiling and releasing an exuberant ?Hear, Hear?.



27th September 2006

(Owen has struggled to drop off to sleep since he has started school. Leon rarely takes longer than 1-5 minutes)

Owen: 'Cwab' starts with 'cuh', 'koala' starts with 'cuh', 'starfish' starts
with a 'duh'

Mummy: Owen, it's time to close your eyes and go to sleep now. It's late.

Owen: I can't sleep because I'm thinking.

Leon: Owen. YOU. JUST. CLOSE. YOUR. EYES.



Tina Bass
currently lives, works and studies in the Midlands of England. With the
support of Lawrence Upton and Martin Holroyd she has recently had two
poetry chapbooks published: Mechanical Expressions (Writers Forum, 2007), and Fat Man Dancing, (Poetry Monthly Press, 2006). 
_________________________________________________________________
Get all your favourite content with the slick new MSN Toolbar - FREE
http://clk.atdmt.com/UKM/go/111354027/direct/01/
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From cervantes.james at gmail.com  Wed Oct 22 10:20:47 2008
From: cervantes.james at gmail.com (James Cervantes)
Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2008 07:20:47 -0700
Subject: [New-Poetry] Things one should not admit
In-Reply-To: <48FF29DF.4040902@opus40.org>
References: <48FE5C2B.10104@opus40.org>
	<83B3DBF4062647208682D5FDBF28FBE2@LindaSue>
	<48FF29DF.4040902@opus40.org>
Message-ID: <648208b60810220720j3064eaai35b999b135efac74@mail.gmail.com>

Nope.  I flunked it, but I thought my word choices were entertaining.
- Jim, never much of a Frost fan.  Or snowman.

On Wed, Oct 22, 2008 at 6:25 AM, TheOldMole <Opus40-01 at opus40.org> wrote:

> I know I'm going to end up the worst of everyone who actually does this.
>
> Linda Sue Grimes wrote:
>
>> How long did it take you?  It does time you also.  You have 6  minutes...I
>> had 4:08 minutes left...nothing like bragging on a Wednesday morning.
>>  respectfully,
>> lsg
>>  ____________________
>>  Blessings,
>> Linda Sue Grimes
>> Feature Writer for Poetry
>> http://poetry.suite101.com
>>
>>    ----- Original Message -----
>>    *From:* TheOldMole <mailto:Opus40-01 at opus40.org>
>>    *To:* NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &amp;Views
>>    <mailto:new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
>>    *Sent:* Tuesday, October 21, 2008 5:48 PM
>>    *Subject:* [New-Poetry] Things one should not admit
>>
>>    I took the "fill in the words in 'The Road Not Taken'" quiz --
>>    http://www.sporcle.com/games/text/tworoads -- and only got 17 right,
>>
>>    --    Tad Richards
>>    http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/
>>    http://opusforty.blogspot.com/
>>
>>    Don't forget to order your copy of FILM NOIR!
>>    http://stores.lulu.com/store.php?fAcctID=2712239
>>
>>    _______________________________________________
>>    New-Poetry mailing list
>>    New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu <mailto:New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
>>    http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> New-Poetry mailing list
>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>>
>>
>
> --
> Tad Richards
> http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/
> http://opusforty.blogspot.com/
>
> Don't forget to order your copy of FILM NOIR!
> http://stores.lulu.com/store.php?fAcctID=2712239
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
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From skip at louisiana.edu  Wed Oct 22 10:32:26 2008
From: skip at louisiana.edu (Skip Fox)
Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2008 09:32:26 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] The Trouble
In-Reply-To: <7db1d01b0810211934h68678f25y81eaf790c2798ace@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <FEDBCC389A1A46468111AB2A9DE77A7C@win.louisiana.edu>

A Solution in Suspension

 

It's great being alive

but I lack perspective.

 

-----Original Message-----
From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu
[mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Judy Prince
Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2008 9:34 PM
To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &amp,Views
Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] The Trouble

 

;-)

2008/10/21 Halvard Johnson <halvard at earthlink.net>

The Trouble

 

with not being born

is that you have to invent

all the details.

 

 

Hal

 

Halvard Johnson

================

halvard at earthlink.net

halvard at gmail.com

http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html

http://entropyandme.blogspot.com 

http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com

http://www.hamiltonstone.org

http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html

 

 

 


_______________________________________________
New-Poetry mailing list
New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry

 

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From cervantes.james at gmail.com  Wed Oct 22 10:40:29 2008
From: cervantes.james at gmail.com (James Cervantes)
Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2008 07:40:29 -0700
Subject: [New-Poetry] The Trouble
In-Reply-To: <1D4BE45C-C238-48ED-8E03-8AB1058DC5A2@earthlink.net>
References: <1D4BE45C-C238-48ED-8E03-8AB1058DC5A2@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <648208b60810220740o4ec5a71s177210014c6cac70@mail.gmail.com>

I'll say!  Boy, those McCain & Palin speeches!  Whew.
- Jim

On Tue, Oct 21, 2008 at 4:52 PM, Halvard Johnson <halvard at earthlink.net>wrote:

> The Trouble
> with not being born
> is that you have to invent
> all the details.
>
>
> Hal
>
> Halvard Johnson
> ================
> halvard at earthlink.net
> halvard at gmail.com
> http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html
> http://entropyandme.blogspot.com
> http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com
> http://www.hamiltonstone.org
> http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
>
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From Rsgwynn1 at cs.com  Wed Oct 22 10:52:33 2008
From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com (Rsgwynn1 at cs.com)
Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2008 10:52:33 EDT
Subject: [New-Poetry] Things one should not admit
Message-ID: <c08.4bd9cefa.36309831@cs.com>

In a message dated 10/22/2008 9:21:26 AM Central Daylight Time, 
cervantes.james at gmail.com writes: 
> 
> Nope.  I flunked it, but I thought my word choices were entertaining.
> 
> 
I have the poem by heart, but some of the blanks refused my correct words.  
Ripoff!  With they'd put up something like Canto LXVI.
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From anny.ballardini at gmail.com  Wed Oct 22 14:19:27 2008
From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2008 20:19:27 +0200
Subject: [New-Poetry] Kerouac's roll is rolling to London
Message-ID: <4b65c2d70810221119q1221a31ch51ea7d79beba6e8d@mail.gmail.com>

*>From:* Richard Ellis [mailto:r.j.ellis at bham.ac.uk]
>*Sent:* Wednesday, October 22, 2008 9:01 AM

 BACK ON THE ROAD

The 1951 Scroll typescript of On the Road -- the famous continuous roll of
typing -- is coming to the UK! It will be on display in the Barber
Institute, the University of Birmingham, during December and January.

Exhibition dates: 3 December 2008 - 28 January 2009

ADMISSION IS FREE!

Opening hours are:
10.00 - 5.00 Mon - Fri
10.00 - 5.00 Sat
12.00 - 5.00 Sun

Conducted tours for parties of 5 students or more can be arranged (
r.j.ellis at bham.ac.uk)

The scroll's display is accompanied by an exhibtion on Jack Kerouac, On the
Road and some of its contexts.

A conference on Jack Kerouac, the Beats and the post-Beats is occurring on
Fri 12 Dec and Sat 13 Dec, 2008. There is still room for a few more papers.
Visit http://www.kerouac.bham.ac.uk/index.htm

Further information on all the above  from:

Professor R J Ellis,
Chair, Dept. of American & Canadian Studies
University of Birmingham
Birmingham B15 2TT
United Kingdom
r.j.ellis at bham.ac.uk
www.uscanada.bham.ac.uk <file:///%5C%5Cwww.uscanada.bham.ac.uk>




-- 
Anny Ballardini
http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html
I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing
star!
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From anny.ballardini at gmail.com  Thu Oct 23 06:26:32 2008
From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2008 12:26:32 +0200
Subject: [New-Poetry] THE POETS' CORNER
Message-ID: <4b65c2d70810230326p3b4276d0x2104e7093dda23d8@mail.gmail.com>

*Two adorable things about Mozart*

* *

* *

*                        *First: he's straight into it. No preamble

                        ever, as if he's saying: there's plenty more

                        where that came from. You can bank on it.



                        And secondly: how he drags something

                        like heavy fabric, like a train behind him

                        up stone stairs to a window with a view of graves.





                                                            *(c) Elizabeth
Smither*









The present update of the Poets' Corner features an *Autumnal
Anthology*<http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=Content&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=318>
with
contributions by:

Dirk Vekemans, Bobbi Lurie, Anny Ballardini, Obododimma Oha, Jeff Harrison,
Cecil Touchon, Halvard Johnson, Jill McCabe Johnson, Ann Neuser Lederer,
Barbara Crooker, Christina Pacosz, Penelope Schott, Georgia Ann
Banks-Martin, Sandra Giedeman, Joel Weishaus, Pat Falk, Tim Mayo, Wendy
Taylor Carlisle, Wendy Vardaman, Bill Morgan, Eileen Tabios, Sheila E.
Murphy, Alan Sondheim, David Graham, Tad Richards, Bob Grumman, Henry Gould,
Jukka-Pekka Kervinen, Guido Catalano, Ruth Fainlight, Ann Fisher-Wirth, Fan
Ogilvie, Larissa Shmailo, Geof Huth, Grace Cavalieri, Mark Weiss, Pam Brown,
David Howard, Edward Mycue, Elizabeth Smither, Elena Karina Byrne,
David-Baptiste Chirot, Nico Vassilakis, Allen Bramhall, Dan Waber, Aaron
Belz, Nicholas Piombino, Joseph Duemer, Daniel Zimmerman, Geoffrey Gatza,
Jon Corelis, Berty Skuber.

http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=Content&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=318





* New Poets:*

*Lanny Quarles*<http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=Content&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=306>
**

*
http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=Content&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=306
*<http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=Content&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=306>
**

* *

*Louisa Howerow*<http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=Content&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=307>
**

*
http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=Content&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=307
*<http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=Content&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=307>
**

* *

*Jim Watson Gove*<http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=Content&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=308>
**

*
http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=Content&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=308
*<http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=Content&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=308>
**

* *

*Tiare Picard*<http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=Content&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=309>
**

*
http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=Content&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=309
*<http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=Content&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=309>
**

* *

*Charlotte Mandel*<http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=Content&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=310>
**

*
http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=Content&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=310
*<http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=Content&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=310>
**

* *

*John Bloomberg-Rissman*<http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=Content&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=311>
**

*
http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=Content&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=311
*<http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=Content&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=311>
**

* *

*Patricia Valdata*<http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=Content&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=312>
**

*
http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=Content&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=312
*<http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=Content&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=312>
**

* *

*Conrad Reeder*<http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=Content&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=313>
**

*
http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=Content&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=313
*<http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=Content&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=313>
**

* *

*Christina Pacosz*<http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=Content&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=314>
**

*
http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=Content&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=314
*<http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=Content&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=314>
**

* *

*Barbara Crooker*<http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=Content&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=315>
**

*
http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=Content&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=315
*<http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=Content&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=315>
**

* *

*Obododimma Oha*<http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=Content&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=316>
**

*
http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=Content&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=316
*<http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=Content&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=316>
**

* *

*Bill Morgan*<http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=Content&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=317>
**

*
http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=Content&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=317
*<http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=Content&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=317>
**

* *

*Wendy Vardaman*<http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=Content&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=319>
**

*
http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=Content&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=319
*<http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=Content&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=319>
**

* *

*Penelope Scambly
Schott*<http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=Content&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=320>
**

*
http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=Content&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=320
*<http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=Content&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=320>
**



* *

* *

*New Work by already Featured Poets*



*Douglas Clark*

*A little poem for
Mahmoud<http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=2462>
***

http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=2462



*Elizabeth Smither*

*Intensive reading with
Diana<http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=2463>
***

http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=2463

*Turn-back service<http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=2464>
***

http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=2464

*A nun prepares for
death<http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=2465>
***

http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=2465

*Last week of a life<http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=2466>
***

http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=2466

*Virginia: gardening with
transistor<http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=2467>
***

http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=2467

*Two adorable things about
Mozart<http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=2624>
***

http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=2624





*Sheila E. Murphy*

*as if to have appended<http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=2473>
***

http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=2473

*Noun that I've been watching
(33)<http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=2475>
***

http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=2475

*Noun that I've been watching
(34)<http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=2476>
***

http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=2476

*Noun that I've been watching
(35)<http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=2477>
***

http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=2477

*Noun that I've been watching
(36)<http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=2478>
***

http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=2478

*Noun that I've been watching
(37)<http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=2479>
***

http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=2479





*Tad Richards*

*NOUVELLE VAGUE <http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=2474>
***

http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=2474

*Situations ::::
continues<http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=Content&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=67>
***

http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=Content&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=67





*Barry Alpert *

*THE MISSION [via Johnny
To]<http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=2480>
***

http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=2480

*BUDDHA COLLAPSED OUT OF SHAME [via Hana
Makhmalbaf]<http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=2482>
***

http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=2482





*Sharon Brogan*

*Harvest Moon<http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=Content&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=99>
***

http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=2484





*Jeff Harrison*

**Mimicry In ruins*<http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=2485>
***

http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=2485

**Actaeon, afterward*<http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=2486>
***

http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=2486

**medals: GRANDUNCLES OF THE
CATTLETRADE*<http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=2487>
***

http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=2487





*Edward Mycue*

*WORD THUMB <http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=2460>***

http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=2460

*EVERYTHING IS BEAUTIFUL<http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=2461>
***

http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=2461

*Three Poems <http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=2628>***

http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=2628

*PERISHING REPUBLICS
DRINK<http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=2630>
***

http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=2630

*A FIGHT FOR AIR<http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=2634>
***

http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=2634

*I AM A FACT NOT A
FICTION<http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=2637>
***

http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=2637

*DOOR IN MY HEAD<http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=2638>
***

http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=2638

*GET TEN CLEAN <http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=2639>*
**

http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=2639

*JOSEPH <http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=2640>***

http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=2640

*YESTERDREAMS-STAR
LIGHT<http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=2641>
***

http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=2641

*WHEEEL <http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=2642>***

http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=2642

*BLESS george carlin, honor his
life<http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=2643>
***

http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=2643

*AFTER TIME IS RIPE IT IS
BANISHED<http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=2644>
***

http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=2644





*Under Poets on Poets*

*Christina Pacosz translated by
me<http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetsonpoets&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=83>
***

http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetsonpoets&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=83



*Ann Fisher-Wirth's bio in Italian by
me*<http://www.fieralingue.it/modules/poetsonpoets/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=112>
**

http://www.fieralingue.it/modules/poetsonpoets/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=112

* *



I would like to thank warmly every single Poet, Author, Artist who has
contributed to the Poets' Corner. The Autumn Harvest for the Corner in
numbers:

-          over 2700 poems

-          over 300 poets

and growing!

Autumnly yours,



Anny Ballardini




-- 
Anny Ballardini
http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html
I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing
star!
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From jforjames at aol.com  Thu Oct 23 12:20:14 2008
From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2008 12:20:14 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: Tupelo Press Presents Mark Halliday's Keep This
	Forever
In-Reply-To: <1102284098723.1101368942391.139.2.73120001@scheduler>
References: <1102284098723.1101368942391.139.2.73120001@scheduler>
Message-ID: <8CB03425D6278CB-724-33C@WEBMAIL-DC08.sysops.aol.com>

One of David Graham's favorites has a new book out...


-----Original Message-----
From: Tupelo Press <announce at tupelopress.org>
To: jforjames at aol.com
Sent: Tue, 21 Oct 2008 12:03 pm
Subject: Tupelo Press Presents Mark Halliday's Keep This Forever



 








 




































?









Tupelo Press Presents Mark Halliday's
Keep This Forever

After Petrarch.
Tupelo Press revives the Poetry Project.

Save Endangered Literature Challenge from Tupelo Press

Tupelo Press $10,000 Dorset Prize for 2008

Colrain Poetry Manuscript Conference

Upcoming Events in the Next Month














Join our list 

?







Join our mailing list!
 





















Tupelo Press Presents Mark Halliday's
Keep This Forever 


?



 
Tupelo Press proudly announces the publication of Mark Halliday's new book of poems, Keep This Forever. 

>From Entertainment Weekly (Ken Tucker) 

A new collection by Mark Halliday is always reason for excitement; his direct, conversational verse is, yes, that poetry comfort-word - accessible - but also wise about the modern world, and frequently very funny. Keep This Forever also makes room for one of the gravest of milestones; it includes a moving sequence of poems about the death of Halliday's father (''Everybody's father dies./...But when my father died, it was my father.''). 

A modern romantic poet, Halliday is wittily alert to our social interactions, whether he's making poetry out of everyday cell-phone chatter and business jargon, or describing a tedious, niceties-filled evening at a social-obligation party with a doleful deadpan: ''...I was standing/with a cup of wine and trying to have on my face/the I'm-so-interested look...'' 












After Petrarch.
Tupelo Press revives the Poetry Project. 


?




To celebrate autumn's arrival, here's a call for poems for possible inclusion in the December/January issue of the online Tupelo Press Poetry Project. 

Submit no more than five poems, no more than one poem per suggested title. You may write in any style, from formal to experimental. Deadline is November 15, 2008. Each submitted poem must take as its title or first line one of the following phrases from Petrarch: 




And I saw weeping those two lovely lights that have a thousand times provoked the sun to envy. (Petrarch 156)

I swim a sea that has no shore or bottom (Petrarch 212)

Once I accused myself, now I excuse, in fact I rate myself quite highly now. (Petrarch 296)

This is the final day of years of sweetness. (Petrarch 314)

If you got free by any strange behavior- (Petrarch 64)




Please submit one poem per email, attached as a Word document, along with a brief bio. Kindly place your last name and the title of your poem in the reference line. 

Our guest editor for the Dec/Jan issue is Nancy Naomi Carlson.

Submit to: poetryproject at tupelopress.org 

There is no fee for submitting, but it sure would warm our hearts over here at Tupelo Press World HQ if you would order any one of our books! 












Save Endangered Literature Challenge from Tupelo Press 


?




Thanks to all of you who have already accepted our challenge by purchasing one book directly from the Tupelo Press website. As you see, we have an exciting new title. Perhaps Mark Halliday's Keep This Forever will appeal if you are thinking about which book to order. And don't forget -- you can get a second book at half price. 

Order one book directly from Tupelo Press. 

Book sales and the literature those sales represent are, in fact, endangered. It is in this arena that we ask you for your help. It won't cost you much, it's easy as can be, and you receive a beautiful Tupelo Press book! 












Tupelo Press $10,000 Dorset Prize for 2008 


?




Open to All Poets Writing in English 
Again this year, the Dorset Prize includes a cash award of $10,000 in addition to publication by Tupelo Press. Postmark deadline, December 15. 


Again this year, the Dorset Prize includes a cash award of $10,000 in addition to publication by Tupelo Press. Postmark deadline, December 15. 


The 2008 Dorset Prize will be judged by Ilya Kaminsky. All finalists will be considered for publication. 


The 2008 Dorset Prize will be judged by Ilya Kaminsky. All finalists will be considered for publication. 



This year, your reading fee entitles you to receive ONE of the following Tupelo Press titles: 


Every Bird is One Bird, Francine Sterle

Ice, Mouth, Song, Rachel Contreni Flynn

The Next Ancient World, Jennifer Michael Hecht

Victory and her Opposites: A Guide, Amy England

The Wanton Sublime, Anna Rabinowitz

Why is the Edge Always Windy?, M?ng-Lan




Please print out and indicate your selection on the form provided and include with your manuscript submission. 

Full Guidelines are available on the Tupelo Press website. 












Colrain Poetry Manuscript Conference 


?




The Colrain Poetry Manuscript Conference provides the faculty, tools and methods necessary to set poets with a completed manuscript or manuscript-in-process on a path towards publication. Faculty includes conference founder Joan Houlihan as well as Jeffrey Levine, editor, publisher and founder of Tupelo Press. For details on location, requirements and cost, please visit: colrainpoetry.com. 

You may also...


Call: (978) 897-0054

Email: conferences at colrainpoetry.com

Write: Colrain Poetry Manuscript Conference
c/o Concord Poetry Center
40 Stow Street
Concord, MA 01742-241















Upcoming Events in the Next Month 


?






Kristin Bock
 
FRIDAY, OCTOBER 24, 2008
8:00 PM
A Reading and Book Signing by Kristin Bock
Amherst Books
8 Main Street
Amherst, MA
Telephone: 413-256-1547
Website: amherstbooks.com/Events/eventsOctober2008.shtml
Cost: FREE
Kristin Bock will read from her first book of poems, Cloisters. A wine and cheese reception will follow.





Kurt Brown
 
TUESDAY, OCTOBER 21, 2008
12:30 PM
UConn Waterbury Branch
99 E. Main Street
Waterbury, CT
Telephone: 203-236-9800
Contact: James Gentile and Mariana DiRaimo

TUESDAY, OCTOBER 21, 2008
7:00 PM
Tunxis Community College
271 Scott Swamp Rd. 
Farmington, CT
Telephone: 860-255-3500
Contact: James Gentile and Mariana DiRaimo

WEDNESDAY, OCTOBER 22, 2008
8:00 PM
Wesleyan University
Wesleyan Station
Middletown, CT
Telephone: 860-685-2000
Contact: James Gentile and Mariana DiRaimo

MONDAY, OCTOBER 27, 2008
7:00 PM
Central Connecticut State University
1615 Stanley Street
New Britain, CT
Telephone: 860-832-2278

TUESDAY, OCTOBER 28, 2008
12:15 PM
University of Hartford
200 Bloomfield Ave.
West Hartford, CT
Telephone: 860-768-4100

TUESDAY, OCTOBER 28, 2008
4:30 PM
Trinity College
300 Summit Street
Hartford, CT
Telephone: 860-297-2000

WEDNESDAY, OCTOBER 29, 2008
8:00 PM
Manchester Community College
Great Path, MS #19
Manchester, CT
Telephone: 860-512-3000


THURSDAY, OCTOBER 30, 2008
12:30 PM
Middlesex Community College
100 Training Hill Rd.
Middletown, CT
Telephone: 860-343-5800





Patricia Fargnoli
 
SATURDAY, OCTOBER 25, 2008
1:00 PM
Panel Discussion
NH Writer's Trail 2008: Portsmouth Literary Festival
South Chruch Sanctuary
Portsmouth, NH
NH Writer's Project
(603) 314-7980
www.nhwritersproject.org
Cost: $15 at the door
Description: Poetry, People and Place: Creating Poetic Consciousness
Join Maxine Kumin, Patricia Fargnoli and Elizabeth Knies, poets laureate from across the Granite State who have raised the poetic consciousness of the United States, New Hampshire and Portsmouth. Hear them read their award winning poetry and take part in a panel discussing building community through poetry.





Annie Finch
 
SATURDAY, NOVEMBER 8, 2008
1:30 PM
Panel Discussion
Eco-Poets Speaking Up: The Nature of Nature Poetry
Camden Opera House
Camden, ME
Contact: Kathleen Ellis
Email: Kathleen_Ellis at umit.maine.edu
Cost: FREE
Description: Panel discussion for the Maine Literary Festival






David Hernandez
 
THURSDAY, OCTOBER 30, 2008
8:00 PM
Reading
Pharmaka Gallery
101 West 5th Street (corner of 5th & Main)
Los Angeles, CA
Contact: Sarah Maclay
Email: smaclay at peoplepc.com
Website: pharmaka-art.org
Cost: $5 recommended donation
Description: Lynne Thompson, David Hernandez, Cecilia Woloch, and Ilya Kaminsky will be reading. Doors open at 7:00. Goodies inside. Organic beverages. Free street parking after 6:00. $5 lot at Spring and Main. More lots nearby.

Ilya Kaminsky
 
THURSDAY, OCTOBER 30, 2008
8:00 PM
Reading
Pharmaka Gallery
101 West 5th Street (corner of 5th & Main)
Los Angeles, CA
Contact: Sarah Maclay
Email: smaclay at peoplepc.com
Website: pharmaka-art.org
Cost: $5 recommended donation
Description: Lynne Thompson, David Hernandez, Cecilia Woloch, and Ilya Kaminsky will be reading. Doors open at 7:00. Goodies inside. Organic beverages. Free street parking after 6:00. $5 lot at Spring and Main. More lots nearby.

Aimee Nezhukumatathil
 
WEDNESDAY, NOVEMBER 5, 2008
5:30 PM
Reading
Columbia College Visiting Writers Series
Music Center Concert Hall
1014 South Michigan Avenue
Chicago, IL
Website: colum.edu/Academics/English_Department/Events.php#murillo
Cost: FREE
Description: Aimee will be reading with John Murillo and Robin Schiff

TUESDAY, NOVEMBER 11, 2008
12 Noon
Reading
University of Pittsburgh-Bradford Visiting Writer Series
Mukaiyama University Room
Bradford, PA
Website: upb.pitt.edu
Cost: FREE


FRIDAY, NOVEMBER 14, 2008
7:00 PM
Reading
Emerging Writers at NYU
KGB Bar
85 East 4th Street, between 2nd Avenue and Bowery
New York, New York
Website: cwp.fas.nyu.edu
Cost: FREE





Alan Michael Parker
 
MONDAY, OCTOBER 27, 2008
7:00 PM
Reading
The Handlebar
304 East Stone Street
Greenville, SC
Contact: Ashley Warlick
Email: ashley_warlick at yahoo.com
Website: www.handlebar-online.com
Cost: Emrys members $2, non-members $4





Barbara Tran
 
THURSDAY, OCTOBER 30, 2008
8:00 PM
Reading
Language for a New Century
BMCC TRIBECA Performing Arts Center
199 Chambers St.
New York City, NY 10007
Website: http://poetshouse.org/progcoming.htm#october
Cost: FREE for students and members of AAWW and Poets House. Others: $10
Description: Language for a New Century: Contemporary Poetry from the Middle East, Asia and Beyond

Mei-Mei Berssenbrugge, Tina Chang, Monica Ferrell, Eric Gamalinda, Kimiko Hahn, Nathalie Handal, Cathy Park Hong, Khaled Mattawa, Ravi Shankar & Barbara Tran

A panel discussion with Mei-Mei Berssenbrugge, Tina Chang, Kimiko Hahn, Nathalie Handal, Khaled Mattawa, and Ravi Shankar will precede the reading, at 6:30PM.
Co-sponsored by the Asian American Writers Workshop and the TRIBECA Performing Arts Center at BMC





Cecilia Woloch
 
THURSDAY, OCTOBER 30, 2008
8:00 PM
Reading
Pharmaka Gallery
101 West 5th Street (corner of 5th & Main)
Los Angeles, CA
Contact: Sarah Maclay
Email: smaclay at peoplepc.com
Website: pharmaka-art.org
Cost: $5 recommended donation
Description: Lynne Thompson, David Hernandez, Cecilia Woloch, and Ilya Kaminsky will be reading. Doors open at 7:00. Goodies inside. Organic beverages. Free street parking after 6:00. $5 lot at Spring and Main. More lots nearby.

TUESDAY, NOVEMBER 11, 2008
8:00 PM
Reading & Concert
Muckenthaler Cultural Center
1201 W. Malvern Ave
Fullerton, CA
Website: themuck.org
Email: hello at moontidepress.com
Cost: FREE
Description: Cecilia Woloch with pianist Ann Patrick Green. Also open mic. 




















Tupelo Press 

Email: announce at tupelopress.org 

Web: http://www.tupelopress.org 
































Forward email





 
This email was sent to jforjames at aol.com by announce at tupelopress.org.

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From grahamd at ripon.edu  Thu Oct 23 12:25:25 2008
From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham)
Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2008 11:25:25 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Tupelo Press Presents Mark Halliday's Keep This Forever
In-Reply-To: <8CB03425D6278CB-724-33C@WEBMAIL-DC08.sysops.aol.com>
References: <1102284098723.1101368942391.139.2.73120001@scheduler>
	<8CB03425D6278CB-724-33C@WEBMAIL-DC08.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <3D1356B6-2F0A-4881-8DC0-FA37F79B872D@ripon.edu>

Yes, and if you like this sort of poetry, this is the sort of poetry  
that you'll really like!

I think it's one of his best yet, yes.


========================================
David Graham
grahamd at ripon.edu

Home Page:
http://web.mac.com/drjazz

Poetry Library:
http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html
==========================================




On Oct 23, 2008, at 11:20 AM, jforjames at aol.com wrote:

> One of David Graham's favorites has a new book out...
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Tupelo Press <announce at tupelopress.org>
> To: jforjames at aol.com
> Sent: Tue, 21 Oct 2008 12:03 pm
> Subject: Tupelo Press Presents Mark Halliday's Keep This Forever
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Tupelo Press Presents Mark Halliday's
> Keep This Forever
> After Petrarch.
> Tupelo Press revives the Poetry Project.
> Save Endangered Literature Challenge from Tupelo Press
> Tupelo Press $10,000 Dorset Prize for 2008
> Colrain Poetry Manuscript Conference
> Upcoming Events in the Next Month
>
> Join our list	
> Join our mailing list!
>
> Tupelo Press Presents Mark Halliday's
> Keep This Forever
>
>
> Tupelo Press proudly announces the publication of Mark Halliday's  
> new book of poems, Keep This Forever.
>
> >From Entertainment Weekly (Ken Tucker)
> A new collection by Mark Halliday is always reason for excitement;  
> his direct, conversational verse is, yes, that poetry comfort-word  
> - accessible - but also wise about the modern world, and frequently  
> very funny. Keep This Forever also makes room for one of the  
> gravest of milestones; it includes a moving sequence of poems about  
> the death of Halliday's father (''Everybody's father dies./...But  
> when my father died, it was my father.'').
> A modern romantic poet, Halliday is wittily alert to our social  
> interactions, whether he's making poetry out of everyday cell-phone  
> chatter and business jargon, or describing a tedious, niceties- 
> filled evening at a social-obligation party with a doleful deadpan:  
> ''...I was standing/with a cup of wine and trying to have on my  
> face/the I'm-so-interested look...''
>
> After Petrarch.
> Tupelo Press revives the Poetry Project.
>
> To celebrate autumn's arrival, here's a call for poems for possible  
> inclusion in the December/January issue of the online Tupelo Press  
> Poetry Project.
> Submit no more than five poems, no more than one poem per suggested  
> title. You may write in any style, from formal to experimental.  
> Deadline is November 15, 2008. Each submitted poem must take as its  
> title or first line one of the following phrases from Petrarch:
> And I saw weeping those two lovely lights that have a thousand  
> times provoked the sun to envy. (Petrarch 156)
> I swim a sea that has no shore or bottom (Petrarch 212)
> Once I accused myself, now I excuse, in fact I rate myself quite  
> highly now. (Petrarch 296)
> This is the final day of years of sweetness. (Petrarch 314)
> If you got free by any strange behavior- (Petrarch 64)
> Please submit one poem per email, attached as a Word document,  
> along with a brief bio. Kindly place your last name and the title  
> of your poem in the reference line.
> Our guest editor for the Dec/Jan issue is Nancy Naomi Carlson.
>
> Submit to: poetryproject at tupelopress.org
> There is no fee for submitting, but it sure would warm our hearts  
> over here at Tupelo Press World HQ if you would order any one of  
> our books!
>
> Save Endangered Literature Challenge from Tupelo Press
>
> Thanks to all of you who have already accepted our challenge by  
> purchasing one book directly from the Tupelo Press website. As you  
> see, we have an exciting new title. Perhaps Mark Halliday's Keep  
> This Forever will appeal if you are thinking about which book to  
> order. And don't forget -- you can get a second book at half price.
> Order one book directly from Tupelo Press.
> Book sales and the literature those sales represent are, in fact,  
> endangered. It is in this arena that we ask you for your help. It  
> won't cost you much, it's easy as can be, and you receive a  
> beautiful Tupelo Press book!
>
> Tupelo Press $10,000 Dorset Prize for 2008
>
> Open to All Poets Writing in English
> Again this year, the Dorset Prize includes a cash award of $10,000  
> in addition to publication by Tupelo Press. Postmark deadline,  
> December 15.
> The 2008 Dorset Prize will be judged by Ilya Kaminsky. All  
> finalists will be considered for publication.
> This year, your reading fee entitles you to receive ONE of the  
> following Tupelo Press titles:
> Every Bird is One Bird, Francine Sterle
> Ice, Mouth, Song, Rachel Contreni Flynn
> The Next Ancient World, Jennifer Michael Hecht
> Victory and her Opposites: A Guide, Amy England
> The Wanton Sublime, Anna Rabinowitz
> Why is the Edge Always Windy?, M?ng-Lan
> Please print out and indicate your selection on the form provided  
> and include with your manuscript submission.
>
> Full Guidelines are available on the Tupelo Press website.
>
> Colrain Poetry Manuscript Conference
>
> The Colrain Poetry Manuscript Conference provides the faculty,  
> tools and methods necessary to set poets with a completed  
> manuscript or manuscript-in-process on a path towards publication.  
> Faculty includes conference founder Joan Houlihan as well as  
> Jeffrey Levine, editor, publisher and founder of Tupelo Press. For  
> details on location, requirements and cost, please visit:  
> colrainpoetry.com.
> You may also...
> Call: (978) 897-0054
> Email: conferences at colrainpoetry.com
> Write: Colrain Poetry Manuscript Conference
> c/o Concord Poetry Center
> 40 Stow Street
> Concord, MA 01742-241
>
> Upcoming Events in the Next Month
>
> Kristin Bock
>
> FRIDAY, OCTOBER 24, 2008
> 8:00 PM
> A Reading and Book Signing by Kristin Bock
> Amherst Books
> 8 Main Street
> Amherst, MA
> Telephone: 413-256-1547
> Website: amherstbooks.com/Events/eventsOctober2008.shtml
> Cost: FREE
> Kristin Bock will read from her first book of poems, Cloisters. A  
> wine and cheese reception will follow.
> Kurt Brown
>
> TUESDAY, OCTOBER 21, 2008
> 12:30 PM
> UConn Waterbury Branch
> 99 E. Main Street
> Waterbury, CT
> Telephone: 203-236-9800
> Contact: James Gentile and Mariana DiRaimo
> TUESDAY, OCTOBER 21, 2008
> 7:00 PM
> Tunxis Community College
> 271 Scott Swamp Rd.
> Farmington, CT
> Telephone: 860-255-3500
> Contact: James Gentile and Mariana DiRaimo
> WEDNESDAY, OCTOBER 22, 2008
> 8:00 PM
> Wesleyan University
> Wesleyan Station
> Middletown, CT
> Telephone: 860-685-2000
> Contact: James Gentile and Mariana DiRaimo
> MONDAY, OCTOBER 27, 2008
> 7:00 PM
> Central Connecticut State University
> 1615 Stanley Street
> New Britain, CT
> Telephone: 860-832-2278
> TUESDAY, OCTOBER 28, 2008
> 12:15 PM
> University of Hartford
> 200 Bloomfield Ave.
> West Hartford, CT
> Telephone: 860-768-4100
> TUESDAY, OCTOBER 28, 2008
> 4:30 PM
> Trinity College
> 300 Summit Street
> Hartford, CT
> Telephone: 860-297-2000
> WEDNESDAY, OCTOBER 29, 2008
> 8:00 PM
> Manchester Community College
> Great Path, MS #19
> Manchester, CT
> Telephone: 860-512-3000
> THURSDAY, OCTOBER 30, 2008
> 12:30 PM
> Middlesex Community College
> 100 Training Hill Rd.
> Middletown, CT
> Telephone: 860-343-5800
> Patricia Fargnoli
>
> SATURDAY, OCTOBER 25, 2008
> 1:00 PM
> Panel Discussion
> NH Writer's Trail 2008: Portsmouth Literary Festival
> South Chruch Sanctuary
> Portsmouth, NH
> NH Writer's Project
> (603) 314-7980
> www.nhwritersproject.org
> Cost: $15 at the door
> Description: Poetry, People and Place: Creating Poetic Consciousness
> Join Maxine Kumin, Patricia Fargnoli and Elizabeth Knies, poets  
> laureate from across the Granite State who have raised the poetic  
> consciousness of the United States, New Hampshire and Portsmouth.  
> Hear them read their award winning poetry and take part in a panel  
> discussing building community through poetry.
> Annie Finch
>
> SATURDAY, NOVEMBER 8, 2008
> 1:30 PM
> Panel Discussion
> Eco-Poets Speaking Up: The Nature of Nature Poetry
> Camden Opera House
> Camden, ME
> Contact: Kathleen Ellis
> Email: Kathleen_Ellis at umit.maine.edu
> Cost: FREE
> Description: Panel discussion for the Maine Literary Festival
> David Hernandez
>
> THURSDAY, OCTOBER 30, 2008
> 8:00 PM
> Reading
> Pharmaka Gallery
> 101 West 5th Street (corner of 5th & Main)
> Los Angeles, CA
> Contact: Sarah Maclay
> Email: smaclay at peoplepc.com
> Website: pharmaka-art.org
> Cost: $5 recommended donation
> Description: Lynne Thompson, David Hernandez, Cecilia Woloch, and  
> Ilya Kaminsky will be reading. Doors open at 7:00. Goodies inside.  
> Organic beverages. Free street parking after 6:00. $5 lot at Spring  
> and Main. More lots nearby.
> Ilya Kaminsky
>
> THURSDAY, OCTOBER 30, 2008
> 8:00 PM
> Reading
> Pharmaka Gallery
> 101 West 5th Street (corner of 5th & Main)
> Los Angeles, CA
> Contact: Sarah Maclay
> Email: smaclay at peoplepc.com
> Website: pharmaka-art.org
> Cost: $5 recommended donation
> Description: Lynne Thompson, David Hernandez, Cecilia Woloch, and  
> Ilya Kaminsky will be reading. Doors open at 7:00. Goodies inside.  
> Organic beverages. Free street parking after 6:00. $5 lot at Spring  
> and Main. More lots nearby.
> Aimee Nezhukumatathil
>
> WEDNESDAY, NOVEMBER 5, 2008
> 5:30 PM
> Reading
> Columbia College Visiting Writers Series
> Music Center Concert Hall
> 1014 South Michigan Avenue
> Chicago, IL
> Website: colum.edu/Academics/English_Department/Events.php#murillo
> Cost: FREE
> Description: Aimee will be reading with John Murillo and Robin Schiff
> TUESDAY, NOVEMBER 11, 2008
> 12 Noon
> Reading
> University of Pittsburgh-Bradford Visiting Writer Series
> Mukaiyama University Room
> Bradford, PA
> Website: upb.pitt.edu
> Cost: FREE
> FRIDAY, NOVEMBER 14, 2008
> 7:00 PM
> Reading
> Emerging Writers at NYU
> KGB Bar
> 85 East 4th Street, between 2nd Avenue and Bowery
> New York, New York
> Website: cwp.fas.nyu.edu
> Cost: FREE
> Alan Michael Parker
>
> MONDAY, OCTOBER 27, 2008
> 7:00 PM
> Reading
> The Handlebar
> 304 East Stone Street
> Greenville, SC
> Contact: Ashley Warlick
> Email: ashley_warlick at yahoo.com
> Website: www.handlebar-online.com
> Cost: Emrys members $2, non-members $4
> Barbara Tran
>
> THURSDAY, OCTOBER 30, 2008
> 8:00 PM
> Reading
> Language for a New Century
> BMCC TRIBECA Performing Arts Center
> 199 Chambers St.
> New York City, NY 10007
> Website: http://poetshouse.org/progcoming.htm#october
> Cost: FREE for students and members of AAWW and Poets House.  
> Others: $10
> Description: Language for a New Century: Contemporary Poetry from  
> the Middle East, Asia and Beyond
>
> Mei-Mei Berssenbrugge, Tina Chang, Monica Ferrell, Eric Gamalinda,  
> Kimiko Hahn, Nathalie Handal, Cathy Park Hong, Khaled Mattawa, Ravi  
> Shankar & Barbara Tran
>
> A panel discussion with Mei-Mei Berssenbrugge, Tina Chang, Kimiko  
> Hahn, Nathalie Handal, Khaled Mattawa, and Ravi Shankar will  
> precede the reading, at 6:30PM.
> Co-sponsored by the Asian American Writers Workshop and the TRIBECA  
> Performing Arts Center at BMC
> Cecilia Woloch
>
> THURSDAY, OCTOBER 30, 2008
> 8:00 PM
> Reading
> Pharmaka Gallery
> 101 West 5th Street (corner of 5th & Main)
> Los Angeles, CA
> Contact: Sarah Maclay
> Email: smaclay at peoplepc.com
> Website: pharmaka-art.org
> Cost: $5 recommended donation
> Description: Lynne Thompson, David Hernandez, Cecilia Woloch, and  
> Ilya Kaminsky will be reading. Doors open at 7:00. Goodies inside.  
> Organic beverages. Free street parking after 6:00. $5 lot at Spring  
> and Main. More lots nearby.
> TUESDAY, NOVEMBER 11, 2008
> 8:00 PM
> Reading & Concert
> Muckenthaler Cultural Center
> 1201 W. Malvern Ave
> Fullerton, CA
> Website: themuck.org
> Email: hello at moontidepress.com
> Cost: FREE
> Description: Cecilia Woloch with pianist Ann Patrick Green. Also  
> open mic.
>
>
> Tupelo Press
> Email: announce at tupelopress.org
> Web: http://www.tupelopress.org
>
> Forward email
>
>
> This email was sent to jforjames at aol.com by announce at tupelopress.org.
> Update Profile/Email Address | Instant removal with  
> SafeUnsubscribe? | Privacy Policy.
> Email Marketing by
>
>
> Tupelo Press | P.O. Box 539 | Dorset | VT | 05251
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry

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From jforjames at aol.com  Thu Oct 23 12:26:03 2008
From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2008 12:26:03 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] Things one should not admit
In-Reply-To: <48FF0EA9.5000701@nut-n-but.net>
References: <48FE5C2B.10104@opus40.org><83B3DBF4062647208682D5FDBF28FBE2@LindaSue>
	<48FF0EA9.5000701@nut-n-but.net>
Message-ID: <8CB03432D828D07-724-3AD@WEBMAIL-DC08.sysops.aol.com>

Bob, are you sure you spelled that name right...

, like _ar_ K-m--o-. I suspect a given test-taker's scores on the two tests would generally be inversely proportionate.?
?


Jim F

-----Original Message-----
From: Bob Grumman <bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net>
Sent: Wed, 22 Oct 2008 7:29 am
Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Things one should not admit


I got the first and last words, but didn't bother with the others, which I'm SURE I would have gotten.?
?
A thought: that the test-taker should also take the following test: fill in the blanks in the names on my list of twenty important otherstream poets, like _ar_ K-m--o-. I suspect a given test-taker's scores on the two tests would generally be inversely proportionate.?
?
--Bob G.?
?
_______________________________________________?
New-Poetry mailing list?
New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu?
http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry?

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From opus40-01 at opus40.org  Thu Oct 23 12:33:24 2008
From: opus40-01 at opus40.org (opus40-01 at opus40.org)
Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2008 12:33:24 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] Things one should not admit
Message-ID: <380-2200810423163324116@M2W027.mail2web.com>

Mary Kamoook?

Original Message:
-----------------
From:  jforjames at aol.com
Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2008 12:26:03 -0400
To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Things one should not admit


Bob, are you sure you spelled that name right...

, like _ar_ K-m--o-. I suspect a given test-taker's scores on the two tests
would generally be inversely proportionate.?
?


Jim F

-----Original Message-----
From: Bob Grumman <bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net>
Sent: Wed, 22 Oct 2008 7:29 am
Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Things one should not admit


I got the first and last words, but didn't bother with the others, which
I'm SURE I would have gotten.?
?
A thought: that the test-taker should also take the following test: fill in
the blanks in the names on my list of twenty important otherstream poets,
like _ar_ K-m--o-. I suspect a given test-taker's scores on the two tests
would generally be inversely proportionate.?
?
--Bob G.?
?
_______________________________________________?
New-Poetry mailing list?
New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu?
http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry?



--------------------------------------------------------------------
mail2web.com ? Enhanced email for the mobile individual based on Microsoft?
Exchange - http://link.mail2web.com/Personal/EnhancedEmail





From opus40-01 at opus40.org  Thu Oct 23 12:35:24 2008
From: opus40-01 at opus40.org (opus40-01 at opus40.org)
Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2008 12:35:24 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] Tupelo Press Presents Mark Halliday's Keep This
	Forever
Message-ID: <380-2200810423163524585@M2W018.mail2web.com>

The Man Who Is Not at the Table

Now that my humorous friend is dead
and from the world is deleted
he does not sit at the long table in the dining room,
the long table whose faded green tablecloth can be described
as gentle and modest by someone alive
in a world just waiting for adjectives. He does not sit there

reading a book he hasn't looked at since grad school,
bemused by his own marginal jottings --
"Art as illusion? Or is this ironic?" -- seeing
an idiosyncratic merit in phrases that once provided only
promptings for lunch-hour parodies in that courtyard
where the yellowjackets obsessed over our sandwiches . . .
He's not there

at the table in such a way
that someone could notice his dark reflection
in the glass pane that protects a watercolor of beached boats,
his reflection dark-shadow-gray but not black
framed by the oddly bright reflection of the red and white curtains
behind him filtering winter afternoon sunlight
with a quiet complication

that someone usually might skim over
as if there would be plenty of time to go back
and really ponder the bits that seemed elusive
or just not crucial to the main theme
the first time through.

***

by Mark Halliday

Original Message:
-----------------
From: David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu
Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2008 11:25:25 -0500
To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
Subject: [New-Poetry] Tupelo Press Presents Mark Halliday's Keep This
Forever


Yes, and if you like this sort of poetry, this is the sort of poetry  
that you'll really like!

I think it's one of his best yet, yes.


========================================
David Graham
grahamd at ripon.edu

Home Page:
http://web.mac.com/drjazz

Poetry Library:
http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html
==========================================




On Oct 23, 2008, at 11:20 AM, jforjames at aol.com wrote:

> One of David Graham's favorites has a new book out...
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Tupelo Press <announce at tupelopress.org>
> To: jforjames at aol.com
> Sent: Tue, 21 Oct 2008 12:03 pm
> Subject: Tupelo Press Presents Mark Halliday's Keep This Forever
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Tupelo Press Presents Mark Halliday's
> Keep This Forever
> After Petrarch.
> Tupelo Press revives the Poetry Project.
> Save Endangered Literature Challenge from Tupelo Press
> Tupelo Press $10,000 Dorset Prize for 2008
> Colrain Poetry Manuscript Conference
> Upcoming Events in the Next Month
>
> Join our list	
> Join our mailing list!
>
> Tupelo Press Presents Mark Halliday's
> Keep This Forever
>
>
> Tupelo Press proudly announces the publication of Mark Halliday's  
> new book of poems, Keep This Forever.
>
> >From Entertainment Weekly (Ken Tucker)
> A new collection by Mark Halliday is always reason for excitement;  
> his direct, conversational verse is, yes, that poetry comfort-word  
> - accessible - but also wise about the modern world, and frequently  
> very funny. Keep This Forever also makes room for one of the  
> gravest of milestones; it includes a moving sequence of poems about  
> the death of Halliday's father (''Everybody's father dies./...But  
> when my father died, it was my father.'').
> A modern romantic poet, Halliday is wittily alert to our social  
> interactions, whether he's making poetry out of everyday cell-phone  
> chatter and business jargon, or describing a tedious, niceties- 
> filled evening at a social-obligation party with a doleful deadpan:  
> ''...I was standing/with a cup of wine and trying to have on my  
> face/the I'm-so-interested look...''
>
> After Petrarch.
> Tupelo Press revives the Poetry Project.
>
> To celebrate autumn's arrival, here's a call for poems for possible  
> inclusion in the December/January issue of the online Tupelo Press  
> Poetry Project.
> Submit no more than five poems, no more than one poem per suggested  
> title. You may write in any style, from formal to experimental.  
> Deadline is November 15, 2008. Each submitted poem must take as its  
> title or first line one of the following phrases from Petrarch:
> And I saw weeping those two lovely lights that have a thousand  
> times provoked the sun to envy. (Petrarch 156)
> I swim a sea that has no shore or bottom (Petrarch 212)
> Once I accused myself, now I excuse, in fact I rate myself quite  
> highly now. (Petrarch 296)
> This is the final day of years of sweetness. (Petrarch 314)
> If you got free by any strange behavior- (Petrarch 64)
> Please submit one poem per email, attached as a Word document,  
> along with a brief bio. Kindly place your last name and the title  
> of your poem in the reference line.
> Our guest editor for the Dec/Jan issue is Nancy Naomi Carlson.
>
> Submit to: poetryproject at tupelopress.org
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> This Forever will appeal if you are thinking about which book to  
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> Order one book directly from Tupelo Press.
> Book sales and the literature those sales represent are, in fact,  
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> Tupelo Press $10,000 Dorset Prize for 2008
>
> Open to All Poets Writing in English
> Again this year, the Dorset Prize includes a cash award of $10,000  
> in addition to publication by Tupelo Press. Postmark deadline,  
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> The 2008 Dorset Prize will be judged by Ilya Kaminsky. All  
> finalists will be considered for publication.
> This year, your reading fee entitles you to receive ONE of the  
> following Tupelo Press titles:
> Every Bird is One Bird, Francine Sterle
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> Please print out and indicate your selection on the form provided  
> and include with your manuscript submission.
>
> Full Guidelines are available on the Tupelo Press website.
>
> Colrain Poetry Manuscript Conference
>
> The Colrain Poetry Manuscript Conference provides the faculty,  
> tools and methods necessary to set poets with a completed  
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> Faculty includes conference founder Joan Houlihan as well as  
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> details on location, requirements and cost, please visit:  
> colrainpoetry.com.
> You may also...
> Call: (978) 897-0054
> Email: conferences at colrainpoetry.com
> Write: Colrain Poetry Manuscript Conference
> c/o Concord Poetry Center
> 40 Stow Street
> Concord, MA 01742-241
>
> Upcoming Events in the Next Month
>
> Kristin Bock
>
> FRIDAY, OCTOBER 24, 2008
> 8:00 PM
> A Reading and Book Signing by Kristin Bock
> Amherst Books
> 8 Main Street
> Amherst, MA
> Telephone: 413-256-1547
> Website: amherstbooks.com/Events/eventsOctober2008.shtml
> Cost: FREE
> Kristin Bock will read from her first book of poems, Cloisters. A  
> wine and cheese reception will follow.
> Kurt Brown
>
> TUESDAY, OCTOBER 21, 2008
> 12:30 PM
> UConn Waterbury Branch
> 99 E. Main Street
> Waterbury, CT
> Telephone: 203-236-9800
> Contact: James Gentile and Mariana DiRaimo
> TUESDAY, OCTOBER 21, 2008
> 7:00 PM
> Tunxis Community College
> 271 Scott Swamp Rd.
> Farmington, CT
> Telephone: 860-255-3500
> Contact: James Gentile and Mariana DiRaimo
> WEDNESDAY, OCTOBER 22, 2008
> 8:00 PM
> Wesleyan University
> Wesleyan Station
> Middletown, CT
> Telephone: 860-685-2000
> Contact: James Gentile and Mariana DiRaimo
> MONDAY, OCTOBER 27, 2008
> 7:00 PM
> Central Connecticut State University
> 1615 Stanley Street
> New Britain, CT
> Telephone: 860-832-2278
> TUESDAY, OCTOBER 28, 2008
> 12:15 PM
> University of Hartford
> 200 Bloomfield Ave.
> West Hartford, CT
> Telephone: 860-768-4100
> TUESDAY, OCTOBER 28, 2008
> 4:30 PM
> Trinity College
> 300 Summit Street
> Hartford, CT
> Telephone: 860-297-2000
> WEDNESDAY, OCTOBER 29, 2008
> 8:00 PM
> Manchester Community College
> Great Path, MS #19
> Manchester, CT
> Telephone: 860-512-3000
> THURSDAY, OCTOBER 30, 2008
> 12:30 PM
> Middlesex Community College
> 100 Training Hill Rd.
> Middletown, CT
> Telephone: 860-343-5800
> Patricia Fargnoli
>
> SATURDAY, OCTOBER 25, 2008
> 1:00 PM
> Panel Discussion
> NH Writer's Trail 2008: Portsmouth Literary Festival
> South Chruch Sanctuary
> Portsmouth, NH
> NH Writer's Project
> (603) 314-7980
> www.nhwritersproject.org
> Cost: $15 at the door
> Description: Poetry, People and Place: Creating Poetic Consciousness
> Join Maxine Kumin, Patricia Fargnoli and Elizabeth Knies, poets  
> laureate from across the Granite State who have raised the poetic  
> consciousness of the United States, New Hampshire and Portsmouth.  
> Hear them read their award winning poetry and take part in a panel  
> discussing building community through poetry.
> Annie Finch
>
> SATURDAY, NOVEMBER 8, 2008
> 1:30 PM
> Panel Discussion
> Eco-Poets Speaking Up: The Nature of Nature Poetry
> Camden Opera House
> Camden, ME
> Contact: Kathleen Ellis
> Email: Kathleen_Ellis at umit.maine.edu
> Cost: FREE
> Description: Panel discussion for the Maine Literary Festival
> David Hernandez
>
> THURSDAY, OCTOBER 30, 2008
> 8:00 PM
> Reading
> Pharmaka Gallery
> 101 West 5th Street (corner of 5th & Main)
> Los Angeles, CA
> Contact: Sarah Maclay
> Email: smaclay at peoplepc.com
> Website: pharmaka-art.org
> Cost: $5 recommended donation
> Description: Lynne Thompson, David Hernandez, Cecilia Woloch, and  
> Ilya Kaminsky will be reading. Doors open at 7:00. Goodies inside.  
> Organic beverages. Free street parking after 6:00. $5 lot at Spring  
> and Main. More lots nearby.
> Ilya Kaminsky
>
> THURSDAY, OCTOBER 30, 2008
> 8:00 PM
> Reading
> Pharmaka Gallery
> 101 West 5th Street (corner of 5th & Main)
> Los Angeles, CA
> Contact: Sarah Maclay
> Email: smaclay at peoplepc.com
> Website: pharmaka-art.org
> Cost: $5 recommended donation
> Description: Lynne Thompson, David Hernandez, Cecilia Woloch, and  
> Ilya Kaminsky will be reading. Doors open at 7:00. Goodies inside.  
> Organic beverages. Free street parking after 6:00. $5 lot at Spring  
> and Main. More lots nearby.
> Aimee Nezhukumatathil
>
> WEDNESDAY, NOVEMBER 5, 2008
> 5:30 PM
> Reading
> Columbia College Visiting Writers Series
> Music Center Concert Hall
> 1014 South Michigan Avenue
> Chicago, IL
> Website: colum.edu/Academics/English_Department/Events.php#murillo
> Cost: FREE
> Description: Aimee will be reading with John Murillo and Robin Schiff
> TUESDAY, NOVEMBER 11, 2008
> 12 Noon
> Reading
> University of Pittsburgh-Bradford Visiting Writer Series
> Mukaiyama University Room
> Bradford, PA
> Website: upb.pitt.edu
> Cost: FREE
> FRIDAY, NOVEMBER 14, 2008
> 7:00 PM
> Reading
> Emerging Writers at NYU
> KGB Bar
> 85 East 4th Street, between 2nd Avenue and Bowery
> New York, New York
> Website: cwp.fas.nyu.edu
> Cost: FREE
> Alan Michael Parker
>
> MONDAY, OCTOBER 27, 2008
> 7:00 PM
> Reading
> The Handlebar
> 304 East Stone Street
> Greenville, SC
> Contact: Ashley Warlick
> Email: ashley_warlick at yahoo.com
> Website: www.handlebar-online.com
> Cost: Emrys members $2, non-members $4
> Barbara Tran
>
> THURSDAY, OCTOBER 30, 2008
> 8:00 PM
> Reading
> Language for a New Century
> BMCC TRIBECA Performing Arts Center
> 199 Chambers St.
> New York City, NY 10007
> Website: http://poetshouse.org/progcoming.htm#october
> Cost: FREE for students and members of AAWW and Poets House.  
> Others: $10
> Description: Language for a New Century: Contemporary Poetry from  
> the Middle East, Asia and Beyond
>
> Mei-Mei Berssenbrugge, Tina Chang, Monica Ferrell, Eric Gamalinda,  
> Kimiko Hahn, Nathalie Handal, Cathy Park Hong, Khaled Mattawa, Ravi  
> Shankar & Barbara Tran
>
> A panel discussion with Mei-Mei Berssenbrugge, Tina Chang, Kimiko  
> Hahn, Nathalie Handal, Khaled Mattawa, and Ravi Shankar will  
> precede the reading, at 6:30PM.
> Co-sponsored by the Asian American Writers Workshop and the TRIBECA  
> Performing Arts Center at BMC
> Cecilia Woloch
>
> THURSDAY, OCTOBER 30, 2008
> 8:00 PM
> Reading
> Pharmaka Gallery
> 101 West 5th Street (corner of 5th & Main)
> Los Angeles, CA
> Contact: Sarah Maclay
> Email: smaclay at peoplepc.com
> Website: pharmaka-art.org
> Cost: $5 recommended donation
> Description: Lynne Thompson, David Hernandez, Cecilia Woloch, and  
> Ilya Kaminsky will be reading. Doors open at 7:00. Goodies inside.  
> Organic beverages. Free street parking after 6:00. $5 lot at Spring  
> and Main. More lots nearby.
> TUESDAY, NOVEMBER 11, 2008
> 8:00 PM
> Reading & Concert
> Muckenthaler Cultural Center
> 1201 W. Malvern Ave
> Fullerton, CA
> Website: themuck.org
> Email: hello at moontidepress.com
> Cost: FREE
> Description: Cecilia Woloch with pianist Ann Patrick Green. Also  
> open mic.
>
>
> Tupelo Press
> Email: announce at tupelopress.org
> Web: http://www.tupelopress.org
>
> Forward email
>
>
> This email was sent to jforjames at aol.com by announce at tupelopress.org.
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From jforjames at aol.com  Thu Oct 23 12:35:43 2008
From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2008 12:35:43 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] The Trouble
In-Reply-To: <1D4BE45C-C238-48ED-8E03-8AB1058DC5A2@earthlink.net>
References: <1D4BE45C-C238-48ED-8E03-8AB1058DC5A2@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <8CB034487430005-724-470@WEBMAIL-DC08.sysops.aol.com>

The Trouble

with not being born
is that it's dark and
silent all the time.


-----Original Message-----
From: Halvard Johnson <halvard at earthlink.net>
To: NewPoetry: &amp; Views <new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
Sent: Tue, 21 Oct 2008 7:52 pm
Subject: [New-Poetry] The Trouble


The Trouble



with not being born

is that you have to invent

all the details.







Hal








Halvard Johnson

================

halvard at earthlink.net

halvard at gmail.com

http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html

http://entropyandme.blogspot.com?

http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com
http://www.hamiltonstone.org


http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html












= 


_______________________________________________
New-Poetry mailing list
New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry

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From grahamd at ripon.edu  Thu Oct 23 12:39:08 2008
From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham)
Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2008 11:39:08 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Things one should not admit
In-Reply-To: <380-2200810423163324116@M2W027.mail2web.com>
References: <380-2200810423163324116@M2W027.mail2web.com>
Message-ID: <D40E5628-076A-42B6-B777-6894E9588932@ripon.edu>



On Oct 23, 2008, at 11:33 AM, opus40-01 at opus40.org wrote:
> A thought: that the test-taker should also take the following test:  
> fill in
> the blanks in the names on my list of twenty important otherstream  
> poets,
> like _ar_ K-m--o-. I suspect a given test-taker's scores on the two  
> tests
> would generally be inversely proportionate.?
> ?
> --Bob G.
============================

Brilliant.  That way we could actually *prove* that little-known  
(i.e. "otherstream") poets are, in fact, little-known.  Furthermore,  
they are little-known in comparison to famous ones!

Boy, that'll show 'em. . . .


========================================
David Graham
grahamd at ripon.edu

Home Page:
http://web.mac.com/drjazz

Poetry Library:
http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html
==========================================




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From anny.ballardini at gmail.com  Thu Oct 23 12:39:32 2008
From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2008 18:39:32 +0200
Subject: [New-Poetry] Things one should not admit
In-Reply-To: <8CB03432D828D07-724-3AD@WEBMAIL-DC08.sysops.aol.com>
References: <48FE5C2B.10104@opus40.org>
	<83B3DBF4062647208682D5FDBF28FBE2@LindaSue>
	<48FF0EA9.5000701@nut-n-but.net>
	<8CB03432D828D07-724-3AD@WEBMAIL-DC08.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <4b65c2d70810230939l3baf42f1jaaccc05e61d47b50@mail.gmail.com>

That's exactly what I wanted to ask...

On Thu, Oct 23, 2008 at 6:26 PM, <jforjames at aol.com> wrote:

> Bob, are you sure you spelled that name right...
>
> , like _ar_ K-m--o-. I suspect a given test-taker's scores on the two tests
> would generally be inversely proportionate.
>
>
>
> Jim F
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Bob Grumman <bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net>
> Sent: Wed, 22 Oct 2008 7:29 am
> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Things one should not admit
>
>  I got the first and last words, but didn't bother with the others, which
> I'm SURE I would have gotten.
>
> A thought: that the test-taker should also take the following test: fill in
> the blanks in the names on my list of twenty important otherstream poets,
> like _ar_ K-m--o-. I suspect a given test-taker's scores on the two tests
> would generally be inversely proportionate.
>
> --Bob G.
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
> ------------------------------
> McCain or Obama? Stay updated on coverage of the Presidential race while
> you browse - Download Now!<http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1211139166x1200680084/aol?redir=http://toolbar.aol.com/elections/download.html?ncid=emlweusdown00000002>
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
>


-- 
Anny Ballardini
http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html
I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing
star!
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From acgold01 at louisville.edu  Thu Oct 23 13:33:17 2008
From: acgold01 at louisville.edu (Alan C Golding)
Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2008 13:33:17 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] Mary Kamoook
Message-ID: <49007D1C.AC48.0004.0@gwise.louisville.edu>

 . . . otherwise known as KarL KEmPToN, distinguished author of, f'r instance, the typoglifs of *Rune: A Survey,* edited with -ar- -o-n-.  C'mon on, Bob, give us a hard one.

Alan





From jforjames at aol.com  Thu Oct 23 16:21:42 2008
From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2008 16:21:42 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] Mary Kamoook
In-Reply-To: <49007D1C.AC48.0004.0@gwise.louisville.edu>
References: <49007D1C.AC48.0004.0@gwise.louisville.edu>
Message-ID: <8CB03641895722B-E20-1915@WEBMAIL-DF03.sysops.aol.com>

http://www.logolalia.com/minimalistconcretepoetry/archives/cat_kempton_karl.html

Some KK here. Including in flash animation.


-----Original Message-----
From: Alan C Golding <acgold01 at louisville.edu>
To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
Sent: Thu, 23 Oct 2008 1:33 pm
Subject: [New-Poetry] Mary Kamoook



 . . . otherwise known as KarL KEmPToN, distinguished author of, f'r instance, 
the typoglifs of *Rune: A Survey,* edited with -ar- -o-n-.  C'mon on, Bob, give 
us a hard one.

Alan



_______________________________________________
New-Poetry mailing list
New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry

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From amyhappens at yahoo.com  Thu Oct 23 18:01:08 2008
From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king)
Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2008 15:01:08 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [New-Poetry] Tomorrow Night!  & Saturday Night!  
Message-ID: <270106.15152.qm@web83301.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>

STAIN OF POETRY
presents


Fri., Oct. 24th @ 7 p.m. - Stain Bar - Williamsburg , Brooklyn 

** Browning, Cohen, Herron,
Howe, Rumble, and Svalina **
 

&


SPECIAL EVENT: UDP Swedish Authors
and Translators 

Sat., Oct. 25th @ 6 p.m. - Stain Bar - Williamsburg , Brooklyn 

** Eugene Ostashevsky, Johannes G?ransson,
Fredrik Nyberg, and Jennifer Hayashida** 

 ? 

stain

766 grand street

brooklyn, ny 11211

(L train to Grand Street ,

1 block west)

718/387-7840

open daily @ 5 p.m. 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 ? 

October 24th
@ 7 p.m.

Sommer Browning has
a chapbook out with horse less press called Vale

Tudo and another on the rise with Cue Editions. Forklift, Ohio , New

York Quarterly, Open Letters Monthly, Free Verse and other journals

have published her poems. She lives and loves in Brooklyn . 

~~~ 

Julia Cohen has three chapbooks
available. ?The History of a Lake Never Drowns? from Dancing Girl Press and
?Chugwater? (with Mathias Svalina) from Transmission Press are forthcoming this
year. Her poems have been published in Denver Quarterly, Copper Nickel, Bird
Dog, Spinning Jenny, RealPoetik, Forklift, Ohio, MiPOesia, and GutCult amongst
others. Her blog: www.onthemessiersideofneat.blogspot.com. 

~~~ 

Patrick Herron (http://patrickherron.com) is a poet, musician, artist and
information scientist living in Chapel Hill .
His doll Lester is the author of the book _Be Somebody_ (http://effingpress.com/lester.htm)
published in April 2008 by Effing Press (a 2003 review from Ron Silliman here: http://tinyurl.com/3e8es). Patrick is the author of several other books of poetry
including _The American Godwar Complex_ (2004, BlazeVox, download in full for
free at http://tinyurl.com/22fsn5).


~~~ 

Brian Howe is a freelance arts
journalist and poet living in Durham ,
 NC . His poems and sound art have
appeared in Fascicle, Octopus, Apocryphal Text, Listenlight, Effing Magazine,
Soft Targets, Cannibal, MiPO, Word for/ Word, and elsewhere. Howe is the author
of two chapbooks, Guitar Smash (3rdness Press; 2006) and Foreign
Letter (Beard of Bees; forthcoming in 2008). He is the creator of the
electro-poetic project Glossolalia (http://glossolalia-blacksail.blogspot.com/) and a
member of the Lucifer Poetics Group. 

~~~ 

Ken Rumble is the author of Key Bridge 
(Carolina Wren Press, 2007) and President Letters (Scantily Clad Press,
forthcoming.) His poems and reviews have appeared in Cutbank, Typo, Coconut,
the tiny, Minor American, Talisman, and others. He lives in Greensboro , North Carolina . 

~~~ 

Mathias
Svalina is the co-editor of Octopus Magazine &
Books. He is the author of the chapbooks Why I Am White (Kitchen Press),
Creation Myths (New Michigan Press), The Viral Lease (forthcoming from Small
Anchor Press) &, written in collaboration with Julia Cohen, When We Broke
the Microscope (Small Fires Press). His first book, Destruction Myth, is
forthcoming from Cleveland State University Press in 09. 

~~~~ 

Johannes
G?ransson is the co-editor of the press Action Books and the online
journal Action, Yes. He is the translator of Remainland: Selected Poems of Aase
Berg and Ideals Clearance by Henry Parland, as well as the upcoming With Deer
by Aase Berg and Collobert Orbital by Johan Jonsson. His own books include: A
New Quarantine Will Take My Place, Pilot and Dear Ra. 

~~~~ 

Fredrik Nyberg is a Swedish poet born
in 1968, currently living in G?teborg ,
 Sweden . In
2007, Ugly Duckling Presse published a translation of his d?but collection, A
Different Practice (En annorlunda praktik), originally published by
Norstedts F?rlag in 1998. Subsequent books include Blomsterur -
f?rklaringar och dikter (Clockwork of Flowers - Explanations and Poems,
2000), ?ren (The Years, 2002), and Det blir inte r?ttvist
bara f?r att b?da blundar (It won?t be fair just because both shut
their eyes, 2006).? Translations of
his poetry have appeared in The Chicago Review, The Literary Review, Calque,
Circumference, and Action, Yes. A new collection - Nio, nine, nein, neuf
- is forthcoming from Norstedts in the fall of 2008.

~~~~

Poet and translator Jennifer Hayashida
was born in Oakland , CA ,
and grew up in the suburbs of Stockholm and San Francisco . She is the
recipient of a 2008-2009 LMCC Workspace Residency, a 2007 PEN Translation Fund
Grant, a Witter Bynner Poetry Translator Residency at the Santa Fe Art
Institute, and has been a Fellow at the MacDowell Colony. She is the translator
of Fredrik Nyberg?s A Different Practice (Ugly Duckling Presse, 2007)
and Eva Sj?din?s Inner China (Litmus Press, 2005). Her poems and
translations have appeared in The Chicago Review, Calque, Circumference, The
Literary Review, Insurance, The Asian Pacific American Journal, and Action,
Yes; text-based work has been included in group exhibitions at The Vera List
Center for Art and Politics and Artists Space. She received her MFA in writing
from Bard College in 2003. She currently lives in
Brooklyn, and is Director of the Asian American Studies Program at Hunter College .
~~~~
Eugene Ostashevsky is a Russian-born American                 poet from New York City. His debut poetry collection, Iterature,
displays the dissonant rhythms, heavy unexpected rhymes and
multilingual puns that occupied him at the turn of the century, as well
as a healthy interest in mathematics. His new book from UDP, The Life                 and Opinions of DJ Spinoza,
employs characters such as MC Squared, Peepeesaurus, the Begriffon and,
of course, DJ Spinoza, to explore the shortcomings of axiomatic systems
with the insouciance and energy of Saturday-morning cartoons. He has
edited an English-language anthology of Russian absurdist writings of
the 1930s by such authors as Alexander Vvedensky and Daniil Kharms. His
PhD dissertation was on the history of zero. He teaches the humanities
at New York University.
~~~~~~

 

stain

766 grand street

brooklyn, ny 11211

(L train to Grand Street ,

1 block west)

718/387-7840

open daily @ 5 p.m.
 

~~~~
 

Hosted by Amy
King and Ana
Bozicevic
 

OCT. 24TH -- http://stainofpoetry.wordpress.com/2008/09/27/friday-october-24-2008-700-pm/

 ? 

OCT. 25TH -- http://stainofpoetry.wordpress.com/2008/09/27/ugly-duckling-presses-swedish-authors-translators/

 ? 

 ? 




_______





Recent work

http://www.writing.upenn.edu/pennsound/x/King.html



Amy's Alias

http://amyking.org/


      
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From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net  Thu Oct 23 20:08:03 2008
From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman)
Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2008 19:08:03 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Things one should not admit
In-Reply-To: <D40E5628-076A-42B6-B777-6894E9588932@ripon.edu>
References: <380-2200810423163324116@M2W027.mail2web.com>
	<D40E5628-076A-42B6-B777-6894E9588932@ripon.edu>
Message-ID: <490111E3.60909@nut-n-but.net>

David Graham wrote:
>
>
> On Oct 23, 2008, at 11:33 AM, opus40-01 at opus40.org 
> <mailto:opus40-01 at opus40.org> wrote:
>> A thought: that the test-taker should also take the following test: 
>> fill in
>> the blanks in the names on my list of twenty important otherstream poets,
>> like _ar_ K-m--o-. I suspect a given test-taker's scores on the two tests
>> would generally be inversely proportionate.?
>> ?
>> --Bob G.
> ============================
>
> Brilliant.  That way we could actually *prove* that little-known (i.e. 
> "otherstream") poets are, in fact, little-known.  Furthermore, they 
> are little-known in comparison to famous ones!
>
> Boy, that'll show 'em. . . .
>
You completely missed my point, David.  It is that people knowledgeable 
about Frost will know nothing about otherstream poets while people not 
knowledgeable about Frost will know something about otherstream poets. 
It's a trivial point about how reluctant many are to leave the familiar 
old for the unfamiliar new.

Of course, there will be lots of people who would score low on both 
tests, and a few who would score high on both.  Somehow, I suspect you 
would not be one of them--though you might get a few of the names on my 
list right thanks to my posts to New-Poetry..

Another point: those scoring high on my text and low on the Frost test 
would not necessarily be superior to those doing the opposite, just 
different.

--Bob G.
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From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net  Thu Oct 23 20:13:39 2008
From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman)
Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2008 19:13:39 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Things one should not admit
In-Reply-To: <4b65c2d70810230939l3baf42f1jaaccc05e61d47b50@mail.gmail.com>
References: <48FE5C2B.10104@opus40.org><83B3DBF4062647208682D5FDBF28FBE2@LindaSue><48FF0EA9.5000701@nut-n-but.net><8CB03432D828D0
	7-724-3AD@WEBMAIL-DC08.sysops.aol.com>
	<4b65c2d70810230939l3baf42f1jaaccc05e61d47b50@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <49011333.4010902@nut-n-but.net>

Anny Ballardini wrote:
> That's exactly what I wanted to ask...
>
> On Thu, Oct 23, 2008 at 6:26 PM, <jforjames at aol.com 
> <mailto:jforjames at aol.com>> wrote:
>
>     Bob, are you sure you spelled that name right...
>
Yup.  The name belongs to a poet who actually won a University Poetry 
Prize once.

--_o_ G__m__n

--Bob
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From halvard at earthlink.net  Thu Oct 23 19:17:16 2008
From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson)
Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2008 18:17:16 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Things one should not admit
In-Reply-To: <490111E3.60909@nut-n-but.net>
References: <380-2200810423163324116@M2W027.mail2web.com>
	<D40E5628-076A-42B6-B777-6894E9588932@ripon.edu>
	<490111E3.60909@nut-n-but.net>
Message-ID: <062727EC-67BB-4F72-AAF0-ADC91598CEF8@earthlink.net>

As G. Stein once said, "The old is too old and the new is too old."

Hal

McCain / Palin -- Just say thanks but no thanks.
They're a bridge to nowhere.

Halvard Johnson
================
halvard at earthlink.net
halvard at gmail.com
http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html
http://entropyandme.blogspot.com
http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com
http://www.hamiltonstone.org
http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html



On Oct 23, 2008, at 7:08 PM, Bob Grumman wrote:

> David Graham wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> On Oct 23, 2008, at 11:33 AM, opus40-01 at opus40.org wrote:
>>> A thought: that the test-taker should also take the following  
>>> test: fill in
>>> the blanks in the names on my list of twenty important otherstream  
>>> poets,
>>> like _ar_ K-m--o-. I suspect a given test-taker's scores on the  
>>> two tests
>>> would generally be inversely proportionate.?
>>> ?
>>> --Bob G.
>> ============================
>>
>> Brilliant.  That way we could actually *prove* that little-known  
>> (i.e. "otherstream") poets are, in fact, little-known.   
>> Furthermore, they are little-known in comparison to famous ones!
>>
>> Boy, that'll show 'em. . . .
>>
> You completely missed my point, David.  It is that people  
> knowledgeable about Frost will know nothing about otherstream poets  
> while people not knowledgeable about Frost will know something about  
> otherstream poets. It's a trivial point about how reluctant many are  
> to leave the familiar old for the unfamiliar new.
>
> Of course, there will be lots of people who would score low on both  
> tests, and a few who would score high on both.  Somehow, I suspect  
> you would not be one of them--though you might get a few of the  
> names on my list right thanks to my posts to New-Poetry..
>
> Another point: those scoring high on my text and low on the Frost  
> test would not necessarily be superior to those doing the opposite,  
> just different.
>
> --Bob G.
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry

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From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net  Thu Oct 23 22:54:11 2008
From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman)
Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2008 21:54:11 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Mary Kamoook
In-Reply-To: <49007D1C.AC48.0004.0@gwise.louisville.edu>
References: <49007D1C.AC48.0004.0@gwise.louisville.edu>
Message-ID: <490138D3.9040300@nut-n-but.net>

Alan C Golding wrote:
>  . . . otherwise known as KarL KEmPToN, distinguished author of, f'r instance, the typoglifs of *Rune: A Survey,* edited with -ar- -o-n-.  C'mon on, Bob, give us a hard one.
>
> Alan
>   
How'd you do on the Frost Poem, Alan?  Better than David did on Karl 
Kempton?

--Bob G.



From opus40-01 at opus40.org  Fri Oct 24 13:23:17 2008
From: opus40-01 at opus40.org (opus40-01 at opus40.org)
Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2008 13:23:17 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] The Lyric "I"
Message-ID: <380-2200810524172317522@M2W039.mail2web.com>

What's a good anthology of confessional or lyric "I" poetry? Didn't you
edit one, David?

--------------------------------------------------------------------
mail2web.com ? What can On Demand Business Solutions do for you?
http://link.mail2web.com/Business/SharePoint





From jforjames at aol.com  Fri Oct 24 20:06:00 2008
From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2008 20:06:00 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] =?utf-8?b?V29ybGRQbzogQWltw6kgQ8Opc2FpcmXigJlzIA==?=
Message-ID: <8CB044C98A39292-90C-28E@WEBMAIL-DC04.sysops.aol.com>


http://www.bostonreview.net/BR33.5/dayan.php

Aim? C?saire?s miraculous words
?
Colin Dayan
?
When Aim? C?saire died in Fort-de-France, Martinique on April 17, 2008, S?gol?ne Royal and others called for him to be buried in the Panth?on in Paris, alongside Rousseau, Hugo, and Zola. Away from the land of his ancestors, the acclaimed poet and long-time mayor of Martinique?s capital Fort-de-France could be claimed for France. But the obituaries make clear that C?saire?s legacy is both powerful and troubling. 


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From anny.ballardini at gmail.com  Sat Oct 25 04:50:56 2008
From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2008 10:50:56 +0200
Subject: [New-Poetry] Simic on Keillor's The Writer's Almanac
Message-ID: <4b65c2d70810250150l273f25a6v96616f5468e46e78@mail.gmail.com>

 Prodigy

by Charles Simic<http://www.elabs7.com/c.html?rtr=on&s=fj6,cac6,dv,f2bb,bgho,3hrs,fxvj>

I grew up bent over
a chessboard.

I loved the word endgame.

All my cousins looked worried.

It was a small house
near a Roman graveyard.
Planes and tanks
shook its windowpanes.

A retired professor of astronomy
taught me how to play.

That must have been in 1944.

In the set we were using,
the paint had almost chipped off
the black pieces.

The white King was missing
and had to be substituted for.

I'm told but do not believe
that that summer I witnessed
men hung from telephone poles.

I remember my mother
blindfolding me a lot.
She had a way of tucking my head
suddenly under her overcoat.

In chess, too, the professor told me,
the masters play blindfolded,
the great ones on several boards
at the same time.


 "Prodigy" by Charles Simic from *Charles Simic: Selected Early Poems*. (c)
George Braziller, 2000. Reprinted with permission (buy
now<http://www.elabs7.com/c.html?rtr=on&s=fj6,cac6,dv,aqgq,ikew,3hrs,fxvj>)



-- 
Anny Ballardini
http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html
I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing
star!
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From suelin6787 at charter.net  Sat Oct 25 05:55:09 2008
From: suelin6787 at charter.net (Linda Sue Grimes)
Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2008 04:55:09 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Things one should not admit
References: <380-2200810423163324116@M2W027.mail2web.com><D40E5628-076A-42B6-B777-6894E9588932@ripon.edu>
	<490111E3.60909@nut-n-but.net>
Message-ID: <6258A60315364098AD9C0134EF854007@LindaSue>

This old "battle of the books" controversy is, alas, always with us...

--lsg
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Bob Grumman 
  To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &amp;Views 
  Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2008 7:08 PM
  Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Re: Things one should not admit


  David Graham wrote: 



    On Oct 23, 2008, at 11:33 AM, opus40-01 at opus40.org wrote:
      A thought: that the test-taker should also take the following test: fill in
      the blanks in the names on my list of twenty important otherstream poets,
      like _ar_ K-m--o-. I suspect a given test-taker's scores on the two tests
      would generally be inversely proportionate.?
      ?
      --Bob G.
    ============================


    Brilliant.  That way we could actually *prove* that little-known (i.e. "otherstream") poets are, in fact, little-known.  Furthermore, they are little-known in comparison to famous ones!


    Boy, that'll show 'em. . . .


  You completely missed my point, David.  It is that people knowledgeable about Frost will know nothing about otherstream poets while people not knowledgeable about Frost will know something about otherstream poets. It's a trivial point about how reluctant many are to leave the familiar old for the unfamiliar new.

  Of course, there will be lots of people who would score low on both tests, and a few who would score high on both.  Somehow, I suspect you would not be one of them--though you might get a few of the names on my list right thanks to my posts to New-Poetry..

  Another point: those scoring high on my text and low on the Frost test would not necessarily be superior to those doing the opposite, just different.

  --Bob G.



------------------------------------------------------------------------------


  _______________________________________________
  New-Poetry mailing list
  New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
  http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
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From grahamd at ripon.edu  Sat Oct 25 09:55:26 2008
From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham)
Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2008 08:55:26 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Things one should not admit
In-Reply-To: <490111E3.60909@nut-n-but.net>
References: <380-2200810423163324116@M2W027.mail2web.com>
	<D40E5628-076A-42B6-B777-6894E9588932@ripon.edu>
	<490111E3.60909@nut-n-but.net>
Message-ID: <E28F2A9B-30A7-4372-A0A8-62CB7BA37F00@ripon.edu>




On Oct 23, 2008, at 7:08 PM, Bob Grumman wrote:
> You completely missed my point, David.  It is that people  
> knowledgeable about Frost will know nothing about otherstream poets  
> while people not knowledgeable about Frost will know something  
> about otherstream poets. It's a trivial point about how reluctant  
> many are to leave the familiar old for the unfamiliar new.
--------------------------------

Bob, did you perhaps mis-type in the above?  I'm not making much  
sense of what you write here unless that second "otherstream" were  
something like "mainstream."

In any case, I guess I would agree with you:  it's a trivial point.

*My* point, which you either missed or ignored, was about the  
definition of "otherstream."  Since such poetry is defined by its  
being "not mainstream" it is not surprising to discover its writers  
are less well known by the general public.  I file that under "Duh!"

So sure, your average avante-experimentalist-otherstream-contrarian  
poet is aware of Frost, yes indeed.  Happy to have that pointed out.   
My *dog* can quote "The Road Not Taken."

But perhaps it's not fair to use Frost's Rushmorean career for our  
example.  If you were to claim that your average otherstreamer were  
fully aware of, say, William Trowbridge's or Barbara Hamby's poetry,  
I'm not sure how well that proposition would hold up. . . .  Hell,  
I've met more than a few otherstreamers who were not only unfamiliar  
with the work of Seamus Heaney and Derek Walcott, but proud of that  
fact.

Well, I should cease before we venture any further into non-trivial  
territory. . . .


========================================
David Graham
grahamd at ripon.edu

Home Page:
http://web.mac.com/drjazz

Poetry Library:
http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html
==========================================



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From halvard at earthlink.net  Sat Oct 25 10:26:36 2008
From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson)
Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2008 09:26:36 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Things one should not admit
In-Reply-To: <E28F2A9B-30A7-4372-A0A8-62CB7BA37F00@ripon.edu>
References: <380-2200810423163324116@M2W027.mail2web.com>
	<D40E5628-076A-42B6-B777-6894E9588932@ripon.edu>
	<490111E3.60909@nut-n-but.net>
	<E28F2A9B-30A7-4372-A0A8-62CB7BA37F00@ripon.edu>
Message-ID: <161A1D16-D264-45B1-A67C-99D63DD4FE75@earthlink.net>

Hmm, the only thing we have to trivialize is trivia itself.

Hal

McCain / Palin -- Just say thanks but no thanks.
They're a bridge to nowhere.

Halvard Johnson
================
halvard at earthlink.net
halvard at gmail.com
http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html
http://entropyandme.blogspot.com
http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com
http://www.hamiltonstone.org
http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html



On Oct 25, 2008, at 8:55 AM, David Graham wrote:

>
>
>
> On Oct 23, 2008, at 7:08 PM, Bob Grumman wrote:
>> You completely missed my point, David.  It is that people  
>> knowledgeable about Frost will know nothing about otherstream poets  
>> while people not knowledgeable about Frost will know something  
>> about otherstream poets. It's a trivial point about how reluctant  
>> many are to leave the familiar old for the unfamiliar new.
> --------------------------------
>
> Bob, did you perhaps mis-type in the above?  I'm not making much  
> sense of what you write here unless that second "otherstream" were  
> something like "mainstream."
>
> In any case, I guess I would agree with you:  it's a trivial point.
>
> *My* point, which you either missed or ignored, was about the  
> definition of "otherstream."  Since such poetry is defined by its  
> being "not mainstream" it is not surprising to discover its writers  
> are less well known by the general public.  I file that under "Duh!"
>
> So sure, your average avante-experimentalist-otherstream-contrarian  
> poet is aware of Frost, yes indeed.  Happy to have that pointed  
> out.  My *dog* can quote "The Road Not Taken."
>
> But perhaps it's not fair to use Frost's Rushmorean career for our  
> example.  If you were to claim that your average otherstreamer were  
> fully aware of, say, William Trowbridge's or Barbara Hamby's poetry,  
> I'm not sure how well that proposition would hold up. . . .  Hell,  
> I've met more than a few otherstreamers who were not only unfamiliar  
> with the work of Seamus Heaney and Derek Walcott, but proud of that  
> fact.
>
> Well, I should cease before we venture any further into non-trivial  
> territory. . . .
>
>
> ========================================
> David Graham
> grahamd at ripon.edu
>
> Home Page:
> http://web.mac.com/drjazz
>
> Poetry Library:
> http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html
> ==========================================
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry

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From grahamd at ripon.edu  Sat Oct 25 10:32:23 2008
From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham)
Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2008 09:32:23 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Things one should not admit
In-Reply-To: <161A1D16-D264-45B1-A67C-99D63DD4FE75@earthlink.net>
References: <380-2200810423163324116@M2W027.mail2web.com>
	<D40E5628-076A-42B6-B777-6894E9588932@ripon.edu>
	<490111E3.60909@nut-n-but.net>
	<E28F2A9B-30A7-4372-A0A8-62CB7BA37F00@ripon.edu>
	<161A1D16-D264-45B1-A67C-99D63DD4FE75@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <C71B830C-2D78-42F2-AC5F-BDA455C11B9B@ripon.edu>




On Oct 25, 2008, at 9:26 AM, Halvard Johnson wrote:
> Hmm, the only thing we have to trivialize is trivia itself.
>
> Hal
=====================

Ah, that'll be the epigraph of my new book, *Trivia R Us*.


========================================
David Graham
grahamd at ripon.edu

Home Page:
http://web.mac.com/drjazz

Poetry Library:
http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html
==========================================



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From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net  Sat Oct 25 11:38:49 2008
From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman)
Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2008 10:38:49 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Things one should not admit
In-Reply-To: <E28F2A9B-30A7-4372-A0A8-62CB7BA37F00@ripon.edu>
References: <380-2200810423163324116@M2W027.mail2web.com><D40E5628-076A-42B6-B777-6894E9588932@ripon.edu><490111E3.60909@nut-n-bu
	t.net> <E28F2A9B-30A7-4372-A0A8-62CB7BA37F00@ripon.edu>
Message-ID: <49033D89.8050602@nut-n-but.net>

David Graham wrote:
>
>
>
> On Oct 23, 2008, at 7:08 PM, Bob Grumman wrote:
>> You completely missed my point, David.  It is that people 
>> knowledgeable about Frost will know nothing about otherstream poets 
>> while people not knowledgeable about Frost will know something about 
>> otherstream poets. It's a trivial point about how reluctant many are 
>> to leave the familiar old for the unfamiliar new.
> --------------------------------
>
> Bob, did you perhaps mis-type in the above?  I'm not making much sense 
> of what you write here unless that second "otherstream" were something 
> like "mainstream."
>
I'm saying there are (1) people knowledgeable about Frost
and (2) people not knowledgeable about Frost.  Opposites.

The first will know nothing about otherstream poets, the second will 
know something about otherstream poets.

> In any case, I guess I would agree with you:  it's a trivial point. 
The "under-point" is slightly non-trivial: that knowing poets like Frost 
well enough to fill in the blanks in his poems but not knowing poets 
like Kempton well enough even to know their names suggests one is too 
involved with the old.  Of course, that assumes that poets doing new 
things, as Frost once somewhat did, will include a few poets whose work 
is worth investigating.  I further believe that someone really serious 
about poetry should read the work of contemporary poets doing new things 
even if those poets aren't any good, just to keep up with the 
art--though, yes, there are too many poets doing worthwhile work to be 
able to cover them all.

>
> *My* point, which you either missed or ignored, was about the 
> definition of "otherstream."  Since such poetry is defined by its 
> being "not mainstream" it is not surprising to discover its writers 
> are less well known by the general public.  I file that under "Duh!" 
I can't see that I was saying anything close to that (which is why I 
ignored your "point").  I was speaking of serious fans of poetry, 
specifically those who would take the Frost test.  But perhaps I should 
have made that explicit.  Of that group, those doing well on the Frost 
test probably wouldn't on a similar test at the other end of the poetry 
spectrum from Frost--an easier test, actually, being simply about 
names.  While those flunking the Frost test (of that group) would do 
much better on the name test.  The general public would probably do 
poorly on both tests, although they'd get a few of the words in the 
Frost poem, no doubt.

My little shot was fired merely against the kind of people who would 
consider a good score on the otherstream (opposite of knownstream, not 
opposite of mainstream)  much less indicative of poetry knowledge than a 
good score on the Frost test.

>
> So sure, your average avante-experimentalist-otherstream-contrarian 
> poet is aware of Frost, yes indeed.  Happy to have that pointed out. 
>  My *dog* can quote "The Road Not Taken."
>
> But perhaps it's not fair to use Frost's Rushmorean career for our 
> example.  If you were to claim that your average otherstreamer were 
> fully aware of, say, William Trowbridge's or Barbara Hamby's poetry, 
> I'm not sure how well that proposition would hold up. . . .  Hell, 
> I've met more than a few otherstreamers who were not only unfamiliar 
> with the work of Seamus Heaney and Derek Walcott, but proud of that 
> fact.  
>
Well, if you know the work of Drurer, why bother with the work of 
(Andrew) Wyeth (who's just as good)?  And what about the mainstreamers, 
including college English professors,  happily confident that most of 
the poetry people like me consider at least equal to Heaney's and 
Walcott's isn't even poetry?

> Well, I should cease before we venture any further into non-trivial 
> territory. . . .
You can go further into non-trivial territory than where TWO NOBELISTS 
are?  You can't be serious, David.

--Bob G.

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From halvard at earthlink.net  Sat Oct 25 11:37:19 2008
From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson)
Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2008 10:37:19 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Things one should not admit
In-Reply-To: <49033D89.8050602@nut-n-but.net>
References: <380-2200810423163324116@M2W027.mail2web.com><D40E5628-076A-42B6-B777-6894E9588932@ripon.edu><490111E3.60909@nut-n-bu
	t.net> <E28F2A9B-30A7-4372-A0A8-62CB7BA37F00@ripon.edu>
	<49033D89.8050602@nut-n-but.net>
Message-ID: <52F78AA8-A460-4F17-A443-2866EE932F5B@earthlink.net>

Gotta love it when Grumman talks dirty!

Hal

McCain / Palin -- Just say thanks but no thanks.
They're a bridge to nowhere.

Halvard Johnson
================
halvard at earthlink.net
halvard at gmail.com
http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html
http://entropyandme.blogspot.com
http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com
http://www.hamiltonstone.org
http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html



On Oct 25, 2008, at 10:38 AM, Bob Grumman wrote:

> My little shot was fired merely against the kind of people who would  
> consider a good score on the otherstream (opposite of knownstream,  
> not opposite of mainstream)  much less indicative of poetry  
> knowledge than a good score on the Frost test.

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From Opus40-01 at opus40.org  Sat Oct 25 13:02:11 2008
From: Opus40-01 at opus40.org (TheOldMole)
Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2008 13:02:11 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] The lyric I
In-Reply-To: <161A1D16-D264-45B1-A67C-99D63DD4FE75@earthlink.net>
References: <380-2200810423163324116@M2W027.mail2web.com>	<D40E5628-076A-42B6-B777-6894E9588932@ripon.edu>	<490111E3.60909@nut-n-but.net>	<E28F2A9B-30A7-4372-A0A8-62CB7BA37F00@ripon.edu>
	<161A1D16-D264-45B1-A67C-99D63DD4FE75@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <49035113.7050103@opus40.org>


No one's going to help me with this?

-- 
Tad Richards
http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/
http://opusforty.blogspot.com/

Don't forget to order your copy of FILM NOIR!
http://stores.lulu.com/store.php?fAcctID=2712239



From Opus40-01 at opus40.org  Sat Oct 25 13:05:28 2008
From: Opus40-01 at opus40.org (TheOldMole)
Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2008 13:05:28 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Things one should not admit
In-Reply-To: <49033D89.8050602@nut-n-but.net>
References: <380-2200810423163324116@M2W027.mail2web.com><D40E5628-076A-42B6-B777-6894E9588932@ripon.edu><490111E3.60909@nut-n-bu	t.net>
	<E28F2A9B-30A7-4372-A0A8-62CB7BA37F00@ripon.edu>
	<49033D89.8050602@nut-n-but.net>
Message-ID: <490351D8.6080806@opus40.org>

Well, I'm guessing Sarah Palin knows nothing about Frost. So.....

Bob Grumman wrote:
> David Graham wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> On Oct 23, 2008, at 7:08 PM, Bob Grumman wrote:
>>> You completely missed my point, David.  It is that people 
>>> knowledgeable about Frost will know nothing about otherstream poets 
>>> while people not knowledgeable about Frost will know something about 
>>> otherstream poets. It's a trivial point about how reluctant many are 
>>> to leave the familiar old for the unfamiliar new.
>> --------------------------------
>>
>> Bob, did you perhaps mis-type in the above?  I'm not making much 
>> sense of what you write here unless that second "otherstream" were 
>> something like "mainstream."
>>
> I'm saying there are (1) people knowledgeable about Frost
> and (2) people not knowledgeable about Frost.  Opposites.
>
> The first will know nothing about otherstream poets, the second will 
> know something about otherstream poets.
>
>> In any case, I guess I would agree with you:  it's a trivial point. 
> The "under-point" is slightly non-trivial: that knowing poets like 
> Frost well enough to fill in the blanks in his poems but not knowing 
> poets like Kempton well enough even to know their names suggests one 
> is too involved with the old.  Of course, that assumes that poets 
> doing new things, as Frost once somewhat did, will include a few poets 
> whose work is worth investigating.  I further believe that someone 
> really serious about poetry should read the work of contemporary poets 
> doing new things even if those poets aren't any good, just to keep up 
> with the art--though, yes, there are too many poets doing worthwhile 
> work to be able to cover them all.
>
>>
>> *My* point, which you either missed or ignored, was about the 
>> definition of "otherstream."  Since such poetry is defined by its 
>> being "not mainstream" it is not surprising to discover its writers 
>> are less well known by the general public.  I file that under "Duh!" 
> I can't see that I was saying anything close to that (which is why I 
> ignored your "point").  I was speaking of serious fans of poetry, 
> specifically those who would take the Frost test.  But perhaps I 
> should have made that explicit.  Of that group, those doing well on 
> the Frost test probably wouldn't on a similar test at the other end of 
> the poetry spectrum from Frost--an easier test, actually, being simply 
> about names.  While those flunking the Frost test (of that group) 
> would do much better on the name test.  The general public would 
> probably do poorly on both tests, although they'd get a few of the 
> words in the Frost poem, no doubt.
>
> My little shot was fired merely against the kind of people who would 
> consider a good score on the otherstream (opposite of knownstream, not 
> opposite of mainstream)  much less indicative of poetry knowledge than 
> a good score on the Frost test.
>
>>
>> So sure, your average avante-experimentalist-otherstream-contrarian 
>> poet is aware of Frost, yes indeed.  Happy to have that pointed out. 
>>  My *dog* can quote "The Road Not Taken."
>>
>> But perhaps it's not fair to use Frost's Rushmorean career for our 
>> example.  If you were to claim that your average otherstreamer were 
>> fully aware of, say, William Trowbridge's or Barbara Hamby's poetry, 
>> I'm not sure how well that proposition would hold up. . . .  Hell, 
>> I've met more than a few otherstreamers who were not only unfamiliar 
>> with the work of Seamus Heaney and Derek Walcott, but proud of that 
>> fact.  
>>
> Well, if you know the work of Drurer, why bother with the work of 
> (Andrew) Wyeth (who's just as good)?  And what about the 
> mainstreamers, including college English professors,  happily 
> confident that most of the poetry people like me consider at least 
> equal to Heaney's and Walcott's isn't even poetry?
>
>> Well, I should cease before we venture any further into non-trivial 
>> territory. . . .
> You can go further into non-trivial territory than where TWO NOBELISTS 
> are?  You can't be serious, David.
>
> --Bob G.
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>   

-- 
Tad Richards
http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/
http://opusforty.blogspot.com/

Don't forget to order your copy of FILM NOIR!
http://stores.lulu.com/store.php?fAcctID=2712239



From Opus40-01 at opus40.org  Sat Oct 25 13:12:57 2008
From: Opus40-01 at opus40.org (TheOldMole)
Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2008 13:12:57 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Things one should not admit
In-Reply-To: <52F78AA8-A460-4F17-A443-2866EE932F5B@earthlink.net>
References: <380-2200810423163324116@M2W027.mail2web.com><D40E5628-076A-42B6-B777-6894E9588932@ripon.edu><490111E3.60909@nut-n-bu	t.net>
	<E28F2A9B-30A7-4372-A0A8-62CB7BA37F00@ripon.edu>	<49033D89.8050602@nut-n-but.net>
	<52F78AA8-A460-4F17-A443-2866EE932F5B@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <49035399.6060409@opus40.org>

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7pfRpxsdSvE

Halvard Johnson wrote:
> Gotta love it when Grumman talks dirty!
>
> Hal
>
> McCain / Palin -- Just say thanks but no thanks.
> They're a bridge to nowhere.
>
> Halvard Johnson
> ================
> halvard at earthlink.net <mailto:halvard at earthlink.net>
> halvard at gmail.com <mailto:halvard at gmail.com>
> http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html 
> <http://home.earthlink.net/%7Ehalvard/index.html>
> http://entropyandme.blogspot.com 
> http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com
> http://www.hamiltonstone.org
> http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html
>
>
>
> On Oct 25, 2008, at 10:38 AM, Bob Grumman wrote:
>
>> My little shot was fired merely against the kind of people who would 
>> consider a good score on the otherstream (opposite of knownstream, 
>> not opposite of mainstream)  much less indicative of poetry knowledge 
>> than a good score on the Frost test.
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>   

-- 
Tad Richards
http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/
http://opusforty.blogspot.com/

Don't forget to order your copy of FILM NOIR!
http://stores.lulu.com/store.php?fAcctID=2712239



From cervantes.james at gmail.com  Sat Oct 25 13:42:04 2008
From: cervantes.james at gmail.com (James Cervantes)
Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2008 10:42:04 -0700
Subject: [New-Poetry] The lyric I
In-Reply-To: <49035113.7050103@opus40.org>
References: <380-2200810423163324116@M2W027.mail2web.com>
	<D40E5628-076A-42B6-B777-6894E9588932@ripon.edu>
	<490111E3.60909@nut-n-but.net>
	<E28F2A9B-30A7-4372-A0A8-62CB7BA37F00@ripon.edu>
	<161A1D16-D264-45B1-A67C-99D63DD4FE75@earthlink.net>
	<49035113.7050103@opus40.org>
Message-ID: <648208b60810251042h4c8db7b5w44842375ded56d11@mail.gmail.com>

An I for an I, a sooth for a sooth, your I-ness.  Methinks because there is
no such animal because there are so many many I lyrics.  How many do you
need?
- Jim

On Sat, Oct 25, 2008 at 10:02 AM, TheOldMole <Opus40-01 at opus40.org> wrote:

>
> No one's going to help me with this?
>
> --
> Tad Richards
> http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/
> http://opusforty.blogspot.com/
>
> Don't forget to order your copy of FILM NOIR!
> http://stores.lulu.com/store.php?fAcctID=2712239
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
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From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net  Sat Oct 25 14:51:51 2008
From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman)
Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2008 13:51:51 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Things one should not admit
In-Reply-To: <490351D8.6080806@opus40.org>
References: <380-2200810423163324116@M2W027.mail2web.com><D40E5628-076A-42B6-B777-6894E9588932@ripon.edu><490111E3.60909@nut-n-bu
	t.net><E28F2A9B-30A7-4372-A0A8-62CB7BA37F00@ripon.edu><49033D89.8050602@nut-n-but.net>
	<490351D8.6080806@opus40.org>
Message-ID: <49036AC7.3020908@nut-n-but.net>

TheOldMole wrote:
> Well, I'm guessing Sarah Palin knows nothing about Frost. So.....
I'd be shocked if that were true, Mole--though, frankly, I don't even 
know if she's a collitch grad or not.  I'm absolutely positive she has 
no idea who Karl Kempton is.  Remember, by the way, that I'm talking 
about people who would take the Frost test.  And, fo course, many people 
know nothing about any kind of poetry.

--Bob G.



From robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com  Sat Oct 25 13:53:38 2008
From: robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com (Robin Hamilton)
Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2008 18:53:38 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] The lyric I
In-Reply-To: <648208b60810251042h4c8db7b5w44842375ded56d11@mail.gmail.com>
References: <380-2200810423163324116@M2W027.mail2web.com><D40E5628-076A-42B6-B777-6894E9588932@ripon.edu><490111E3.60909@nut-n-but.net><E28F2A9B-30A7-4372-A0A8-62CB7BA37F00@ripon.edu><161A1D16-D264-45B1-A67C-99D63DD4FE75@earthlink.net><49035113.7050103@opus40.org>
	<648208b60810251042h4c8db7b5w44842375ded56d11@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <706BDAA5C43945FDAC0F91A3662B56FB@RobinPC>

I'm interested in this in the pre-modern period, especially writers who 
incorporate biographical (or pseudo-biographical) material in their poems --  
Archilochus, Sappho, George Gascoigne, Ben Jonson, etc.

The whole thing gets muddied in the Romantic period and even more muddied 
when the Renaissance is read in terms of T.S.Eliot, which works for Donne 
but not for Jonson.

I wasn't quite sure of the scope of the original question, and my own sense 
would be that one crucial distinction is between the majority of lyric 
poems -- though this fluctuates at different times -- which use a generic 
"I" (who perhaps wandered lonely as a cloud) and the ones which deliberately 
historicise (whether historically true or not) -- most obviously Lowell and 
Berryman,  but going back at least as far as Archilochus, expressing his 
dislike of pampered officers and leaving his sheild to be captured by a 
Persian soldier on the principle that it was better to live and fight 
another day.

Robin

<<
An I for an I, a sooth for a sooth, your I-ness.  Methinks because there is 
no such animal because there are so many many I lyrics.  How many do you 
need?

- Jim
>> 




From Opus40-01 at opus40.org  Sat Oct 25 13:57:43 2008
From: Opus40-01 at opus40.org (TheOldMole)
Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2008 13:57:43 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] The lyric I
In-Reply-To: <648208b60810251042h4c8db7b5w44842375ded56d11@mail.gmail.com>
References: <380-2200810423163324116@M2W027.mail2web.com>	<D40E5628-076A-42B6-B777-6894E9588932@ripon.edu>	<490111E3.60909@nut-n-but.net>	<E28F2A9B-30A7-4372-A0A8-62CB7BA37F00@ripon.edu>	<161A1D16-D264-45B1-A67C-99D63DD4FE75@earthlink.net>	<49035113.7050103@opus40.org>
	<648208b60810251042h4c8db7b5w44842375ded56d11@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <49035E17.8030000@opus40.org>

I guess I'm going to have to dig down to my own resources, and put 
together a packet of some sort. That, unfortunately, always turns out to 
be the best way, because if I flagellate myself enough, I'm generally 
the best judge of what I need.

I have to give a one-day workshop on "persona," and I'm tossing around 
trying to figure out what I've gotten myself into, and what I'm going to do.



James Cervantes wrote:
> An I for an I, a sooth for a sooth, your I-ness.  Methinks because 
> there is no such animal because there are so many many I lyrics.  How 
> many do you need?
>
> - Jim
>
> On Sat, Oct 25, 2008 at 10:02 AM, TheOldMole <Opus40-01 at opus40.org 
> <mailto:Opus40-01 at opus40.org>> wrote:
>
>
>     No one's going to help me with this?
>
>     -- 
>     Tad Richards
>     http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/
>     http://opusforty.blogspot.com/
>
>     Don't forget to order your copy of FILM NOIR!
>     http://stores.lulu.com/store.php?fAcctID=2712239
>
>     _______________________________________________
>     New-Poetry mailing list
>     New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu <mailto:New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
>     http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>   

-- 
Tad Richards
http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/
http://opusforty.blogspot.com/

Don't forget to order your copy of FILM NOIR!
http://stores.lulu.com/store.php?fAcctID=2712239



From Opus40-01 at opus40.org  Sat Oct 25 14:02:51 2008
From: Opus40-01 at opus40.org (TheOldMole)
Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2008 14:02:51 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] The lyric I
In-Reply-To: <706BDAA5C43945FDAC0F91A3662B56FB@RobinPC>
References: <380-2200810423163324116@M2W027.mail2web.com><D40E5628-076A-42B6-B777-6894E9588932@ripon.edu><490111E3.60909@nut-n-but.net><E28F2A9B-30A7-4372-A0A8-62CB7BA37F00@ripon.edu><161A1D16-D264-45B1-A67C-99D63DD4FE75@earthlink.net><49035113.7050103@opus40.org>	<648208b60810251042h4c8db7b5w44842375ded56d11@mail.gmail.com>
	<706BDAA5C43945FDAC0F91A3662B56FB@RobinPC>
Message-ID: <49035F4B.3080002@opus40.org>

That is a particularly interesting subject, and worth discussing. 
Probably more than mine. I was kinda looking for an anthology of 
confessional and post-confessional poetry, that would save me the 
trouble of thinking and compiling my own.

Robin Hamilton wrote:
> I'm interested in this in the pre-modern period, especially writers 
> who incorporate biographical (or pseudo-biographical) material in 
> their poems --  Archilochus, Sappho, George Gascoigne, Ben Jonson, etc.
>
> The whole thing gets muddied in the Romantic period and even more 
> muddied when the Renaissance is read in terms of T.S.Eliot, which 
> works for Donne but not for Jonson.
>
> I wasn't quite sure of the scope of the original question, and my own 
> sense would be that one crucial distinction is between the majority of 
> lyric poems -- though this fluctuates at different times -- which use 
> a generic "I" (who perhaps wandered lonely as a cloud) and the ones 
> which deliberately historicise (whether historically true or not) -- 
> most obviously Lowell and Berryman,  but going back at least as far as 
> Archilochus, expressing his dislike of pampered officers and leaving 
> his sheild to be captured by a Persian soldier on the principle that 
> it was better to live and fight another day.
>
> Robin
>
> <<
> An I for an I, a sooth for a sooth, your I-ness.  Methinks because 
> there is no such animal because there are so many many I lyrics.  How 
> many do you need?
>
> - Jim
>>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>

-- 
Tad Richards
http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/
http://opusforty.blogspot.com/

Don't forget to order your copy of FILM NOIR!
http://stores.lulu.com/store.php?fAcctID=2712239



From robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com  Sat Oct 25 14:07:36 2008
From: robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com (Robin Hamilton)
Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2008 19:07:36 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] The lyric I
In-Reply-To: <49035E17.8030000@opus40.org>
References: <380-2200810423163324116@M2W027.mail2web.com>	<D40E5628-076A-42B6-B777-6894E9588932@ripon.edu>	<490111E3.60909@nut-n-but.net>	<E28F2A9B-30A7-4372-A0A8-62CB7BA37F00@ripon.edu>	<161A1D16-D264-45B1-A67C-99D63DD4FE75@earthlink.net>	<49035113.7050103@opus40.org><648208b60810251042h4c8db7b5w44842375ded56d11@mail.gmail.com>
	<49035E17.8030000@opus40.org>
Message-ID: <A0667766D56D46DF989302F4F1EBEE9E@RobinPC>

> I have to give a one-day workshop on "persona," and I'm tossing around 
> trying to figure out what I've gotten myself into, and what I'm going to 
> do.

You'll know it no doubt, but Robert Langbaum's _The Poetry of Experience_ is 
pretty seminal in tthis area.

Have you thought of juxtaposing Historicised "I" vs Lyric "I" poems? 
Wordsworth's "Immortality Ode" against "Dejection:  A Letter", or Ben 
jonson's "My Picture Left in Scotland" vs. John donne's "The Canonisation"?

More recently, Elizabeth Bishop's "Armadillo" vs Robert Lowell's "Skunk 
Hour".

Robin 




From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net  Sat Oct 25 15:02:43 2008
From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman)
Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2008 14:02:43 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Things one should not admit
In-Reply-To: <49036AC7.3020908@nut-n-but.net>
References: <380-2200810423163324116@M2W027.mail2web.com><D40E5628-076A-42B6-B777-6894E9588932@ripon.edu><490111E3.60909@nut-n-bu
	t.net><E28F2A9B-30A7-4372-A0A8-62CB7BA37F00@ripon.edu><49033D89.8050602@nut-n-but.net><490351D8.6080806@opus40.org>
	<49036AC7.3020908@nut-n-but.net>
Message-ID: <49036D53.3040300@nut-n-but.net>

Bob Grumman wrote:
> TheOldMole wrote:
>> Well, I'm guessing Sarah Palin knows nothing about Frost. So.....
I'm sure, however, that Joe Biden knows more about Frost AND Karl 
Kempton than anybody but David Graham And Halvard Johnson.

--Bob G.



From JforJames at aol.com  Sat Oct 25 14:40:29 2008
From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com)
Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2008 14:40:29 EDT
Subject: [New-Poetry] The lyric I
Message-ID: <cfa.4635d583.3634c21d@aol.com>

_http://www.amazon.com/After-Confession-Poetry-as-Autobiography/dp/1555973558/
ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1212543318&sr=1-1_ 
(http://www.amazon.com/After-Confession-Poetry-as-Autobiography/dp/1555973558/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&q
id=1212543318&sr=1-1) 
 
Here's the book of essays that David Graham co-edited, titled _After  
Confession_.
 
>From Publishers Weekly
Louise Gluck, Yusef Komunyakaa,  Claudia Rankine, Frank Bidart, U.S. poet 
laureate Billy Collins and 25 others  explore verse that takes the poet's own 
life as its subject in After Confession:  Poetry As Autobiography, edited by the 
Wisconsin-based poets David Graham  (Stutter Monk) and Kate Sontag. Poems and 
(mostly) essays, new and (mostly)  reprinted from journals or books, consider 
such poetry's heritage, and its  powers.  
Copyright 2001 Cahners Business Information, Inc.

>From Library  Journal
The autobiographical impulse in English and American poetry is  here explored 
in two poems and 28 essays by a range of contemporary poets. Each  weighs in 
on a different area of the discussion, but all are evocative and  engaging. 
One quickly discovers that the confessional poem's legacy extends  further than 
the expected Plath, Sexton, and Lowell. Sappho, Shakespeare's  elusive 
figures, Milton's daughters, and Mary Wordsworth are as likely to be  evoked by these 
writers, as they demonstrate how poetic voice spans an infinite  variety of 
combinations. Colette Inez quotes Flaubert, while Claudia Rankine  references 
Simone Weil: "I am also other than what I imagine myself to be." In  concluding 
his essay, William Matthews writes, "Jack Nicklaus didn't hit that  shot out 
of a fairway bunker with a sidehill lie with his personality, he hit it  with 
a 4-wood." Other poets who join the discussion include Joseph Bruchac,  Kimiko 
Hahn, Adrienne Rich, and Yusef Komunyakaa. The editors have done an  
outstanding job. Highly recommended to any library interested in poetics. Scott  
Hightower, Fordham Univ., New York 
Copyright 2001 Reed Business Information,  Inc. 

**************Play online games for FREE at Games.com! All of your favorites, 
no registration required and great graphics ? check it out! 
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From jorgensen_a at yahoo.com  Sat Oct 25 14:42:29 2008
From: jorgensen_a at yahoo.com (Jorgensen, Alexander)
Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2008 11:42:29 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [New-Poetry] Matina L. Stamatakis "Papyrus Graffiti 4"
Message-ID: <968852.47334.qm@web50510.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

http://bentspoon.blogspot.com/

?Matina L. Stamatakis "Papyrus Graffiti 4"

--

Tennessee Williams: "A vacuum is a hell of a lot better than some of the stuff that nature replaces it with."
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From JforJames at aol.com  Sat Oct 25 15:00:02 2008
From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com)
Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2008 15:00:02 EDT
Subject: [New-Poetry] The lyric I
Message-ID: <bd1.415df3f4.3634c6b2@aol.com>

 
In a message dated 10/25/2008 1:58:12 PM Eastern Daylight Time,  
Opus40-01 at opus40.org writes:

I guess  I'm going to have to dig down to my own resources, and put 
together a  packet of some sort. That, unfortunately, always turns out to 
be the best  way, because if I flagellate myself enough, I'm generally 
the best judge  of what I need.

I have to give a one-day workshop on "persona," and I'm  tossing around 
trying to figure out what I've gotten myself into, and what  I'm going to do.


--
The persona poem, as I know it, is more like the poet 'channeling'  another 
person's thoughts/experiences.
As is often done in the case of dramatic monologue. For that, Ai's work has  
some good examples.
 
For the lyric-I, itself, I'd get some Cavafy in there, the  Whitman-Dickinson 
dyad
would be good, the ancient Chinese poets Li Po and Tu Fu, too. 
 
Finnegan 
**************Play online games for FREE at Games.com! All of your favorites, 
no registration required and great graphics ? check it out! 
(http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1211202682x1200689022/aol?redir=
http://www.games.com?ncid=emlcntusgame00000001)
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From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net  Sat Oct 25 16:28:23 2008
From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman)
Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2008 15:28:23 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] The lyric I
In-Reply-To: <49035E17.8030000@opus40.org>
References: <380-2200810423163324116@M2W027.mail2web.com>	<D40E5628-076A-42B6-B777-6894E9588932@ripon.edu>
	<490111E3.60909@nut-n-but.net>	<E28F2A9B-30A7-4372-A0A8-62CB7BA37F00@ripon.edu>
	<161A1D16-D264-45B1-A67C-99D63DD4FE75@earthlink.net>
	<49035113.7050103@opus40.org><648208b60810251042h4c8db7b5w44842375ded56d11@mail.gmail.com>
	<49035E17.8030000@opus40.org>
Message-ID: <49038167.2010509@nut-n-but.net>

TheOldMole wrote:
> I guess I'm going to have to dig down to my own resources, and put 
> together a packet of some sort. That, unfortunately, always turns out 
> to be the best way, because if I flagellate myself enough, I'm 
> generally the best judge of what I need.
>
> I have to give a one-day workshop on "persona," and I'm tossing around 
> trying to figure out what I've gotten myself into, and what I'm going 
> to do.
"Persona" always makes me think of Yeats's Crazy Jane, Hughes's Crow and 
Berryman's Henry.  I don't connect persona to confessionalism of any 
so-called "lyric I," though.  Keats wrote lyrical I poems without 
confessing anything, for just one instance. . . .

--Bob G.



From barry.spacks at verizon.net  Sat Oct 25 15:32:06 2008
From: barry.spacks at verizon.net (Barry Spacks)
Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2008 12:32:06 -0700
Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Think-pieces to go with Self-singings
In-Reply-To: <200810251600.m9PG05nJ010390@wiz.cath.vt.edu>
References: <200810251600.m9PG05nJ010390@wiz.cath.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <4C40A6C3-403F-4AB4-81A8-8EEAF6C41882@verizon.net>


On Oct 25, 2008, at 9:00 AM, The Old Mole wrote:
>
I was kinda looking for an anthology of confessional and post- 
confessional poetry,
that would save me the trouble of thinking and compiling my own.

Of course you undoubtedly know, for sage commentary, the best anthology
of thought about such matters, by our own Heroic David (with Kate  
Sontag):
AFTER CONFESSION.

I've used the Graham/Sontag several times in teaching, along
with my own handout-anthology -- a superb collection of essays.

awake from the sleep of reason,

Barry


From anny.ballardini at gmail.com  Sat Oct 25 15:42:19 2008
From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2008 21:42:19 +0200
Subject: [New-Poetry] The lyric I
In-Reply-To: <49038167.2010509@nut-n-but.net>
References: <380-2200810423163324116@M2W027.mail2web.com>
	<D40E5628-076A-42B6-B777-6894E9588932@ripon.edu>
	<490111E3.60909@nut-n-but.net>
	<E28F2A9B-30A7-4372-A0A8-62CB7BA37F00@ripon.edu>
	<161A1D16-D264-45B1-A67C-99D63DD4FE75@earthlink.net>
	<49035113.7050103@opus40.org>
	<648208b60810251042h4c8db7b5w44842375ded56d11@mail.gmail.com>
	<49035E17.8030000@opus40.org> <49038167.2010509@nut-n-but.net>
Message-ID: <4b65c2d70810251242kd6931d8hf5d5f45fb18d601e@mail.gmail.com>

Here's an exercise I found on the net:
http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~leslieob/bio-poem.html
try also this link, it might give you some ideas:
http://books.google.it/books?ct=result&hl=en&q=persona+poetry&btnG=Search+Books



On Sat, Oct 25, 2008 at 10:28 PM, Bob Grumman <bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net>wrote:

> TheOldMole wrote:
>
>> I guess I'm going to have to dig down to my own resources, and put
>> together a packet of some sort. That, unfortunately, always turns out to be
>> the best way, because if I flagellate myself enough, I'm generally the best
>> judge of what I need.
>>
>> I have to give a one-day workshop on "persona," and I'm tossing around
>> trying to figure out what I've gotten myself into, and what I'm going to do.
>>
> "Persona" always makes me think of Yeats's Crazy Jane, Hughes's Crow and
> Berryman's Henry.  I don't connect persona to confessionalism of any
> so-called "lyric I," though.  Keats wrote lyrical I poems without confessing
> anything, for just one instance. . . .
>
> --Bob G.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>



-- 
Anny Ballardini
http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html
I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing
star!
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From Opus40-01 at opus40.org  Sat Oct 25 15:52:29 2008
From: Opus40-01 at opus40.org (TheOldMole)
Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2008 15:52:29 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] The lyric I
In-Reply-To: <bd1.415df3f4.3634c6b2@aol.com>
References: <bd1.415df3f4.3634c6b2@aol.com>
Message-ID: <490378FD.4040108@opus40.org>

That'll be kinda my point in this workshop -- the difference between 
writing about yourself and creating a persona.

JforJames at aol.com wrote:
> In a message dated 10/25/2008 1:58:12 PM Eastern Daylight Time, 
> Opus40-01 at opus40.org writes:
>
>     I guess I'm going to have to dig down to my own resources, and put
>     together a packet of some sort. That, unfortunately, always turns
>     out to
>     be the best way, because if I flagellate myself enough, I'm generally
>     the best judge of what I need.
>
>     I have to give a one-day workshop on "persona," and I'm tossing
>     around
>     trying to figure out what I've gotten myself into, and what I'm
>     going to do.
>
> --
> The persona poem, as I know it, is more like the poet 'channeling' 
> another person's thoughts/experiences.
> As is often done in the case of dramatic monologue. For that, Ai's 
> work has some good examples.
>  
> For the lyric-I, itself, I'd get some Cavafy in there, the 
> Whitman-Dickinson dyad
> would be good, the ancient Chinese poets Li Po and Tu Fu, too. 
>  
> Finnegan 
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Play online games for FREE at Games.com! All of your favorites, no 
> registration required and great graphics ? check it out! 
> <http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1211202682x1200689022/aol?redir=%0Ahttp://www.games.com?ncid=emlcntusgame00000001>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>   

-- 
Tad Richards
http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/
http://opusforty.blogspot.com/

Don't forget to order your copy of FILM NOIR!
http://stores.lulu.com/store.php?fAcctID=2712239



From JforJames at aol.com  Sat Oct 25 17:25:30 2008
From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com)
Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2008 17:25:30 EDT
Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: Poets House Upcoming Events
Message-ID: <c82.2f7bc19d.3634e8ca@aol.com>


**************Play online games for FREE at Games.com! All of your favorites, 
no registration required and great graphics ? check it out! 
(http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1211202682x1200689022/aol?redir=
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From cervantes.james at gmail.com  Sat Oct 25 17:37:14 2008
From: cervantes.james at gmail.com (James Cervantes)
Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2008 14:37:14 -0700
Subject: [New-Poetry] The lyric I
In-Reply-To: <490378FD.4040108@opus40.org>
References: <bd1.415df3f4.3634c6b2@aol.com> <490378FD.4040108@opus40.org>
Message-ID: <648208b60810251437w21fb5545gaed7166f6f7b61f8@mail.gmail.com>

Aye, Tad.  And now you have your choice of all of the above, including those
who pretend to be using a persona "I" when in fact it's them!  Rascals.
 Good luck.
- Jim

On Sat, Oct 25, 2008 at 12:52 PM, TheOldMole <Opus40-01 at opus40.org> wrote:

> That'll be kinda my point in this workshop -- the difference between
> writing about yourself and creating a persona.
>
> JforJames at aol.com wrote:
>
>> In a message dated 10/25/2008 1:58:12 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
>> Opus40-01 at opus40.org writes:
>>
>>    I guess I'm going to have to dig down to my own resources, and put
>>    together a packet of some sort. That, unfortunately, always turns
>>    out to
>>    be the best way, because if I flagellate myself enough, I'm generally
>>    the best judge of what I need.
>>
>>    I have to give a one-day workshop on "persona," and I'm tossing
>>    around
>>    trying to figure out what I've gotten myself into, and what I'm
>>    going to do.
>>
>> --
>> The persona poem, as I know it, is more like the poet 'channeling' another
>> person's thoughts/experiences.
>> As is often done in the case of dramatic monologue. For that, Ai's work
>> has some good examples.
>>  For the lyric-I, itself, I'd get some Cavafy in there, the
>> Whitman-Dickinson dyad
>> would be good, the ancient Chinese poets Li Po and Tu Fu, too.  Finnegan
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Play online games for FREE at Games.com! All of your favorites, no
>> registration required and great graphics ? check it out! <
>> http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1211202682x1200689022/aol?redir=%0Ahttp://www.games.com?ncid=emlcntusgame00000001
>> >
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> New-Poetry mailing list
>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>>
>>
>
> --
> Tad Richards
> http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/
> http://opusforty.blogspot.com/
>
> Don't forget to order your copy of FILM NOIR!
> http://stores.lulu.com/store.php?fAcctID=2712239
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
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From grahamd at ripon.edu  Sat Oct 25 17:42:52 2008
From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham)
Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2008 16:42:52 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: The lyric I
In-Reply-To: <490378FD.4040108@opus40.org>
References: <bd1.415df3f4.3634c6b2@aol.com> <490378FD.4040108@opus40.org>
Message-ID: <049DF786-EEC9-4A5D-B9D0-072F2EA7DCB7@ripon.edu>

And before I forget, another resource :  the online journal  
*Poemeleon* recently did a whole issue on Persona, with an array of  
poems and also some critical writing.

http://www.poemeleon.org/

Check the Summer 08 issue.


========================================
David Graham
grahamd at ripon.edu

Home Page:
http://web.mac.com/drjazz

Poetry Library:
http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html
==========================================




On Oct 25, 2008, at 2:52 PM, TheOldMole wrote:

> That'll be kinda my point in this workshop -- the difference  
> between writing about yourself and creating a persona.
>
> JforJames at aol.com wrote:
>> In a message dated 10/25/2008 1:58:12 PM Eastern Daylight Time,  
>> Opus40-01 at opus40.org writes:
>>
>>     I guess I'm going to have to dig down to my own resources, and  
>> put
>>     together a packet of some sort. That, unfortunately, always turns
>>     out to
>>     be the best way, because if I flagellate myself enough, I'm  
>> generally
>>     the best judge of what I need.
>>
>>     I have to give a one-day workshop on "persona," and I'm tossing
>>     around
>>     trying to figure out what I've gotten myself into, and what I'm
>>     going to do.
>>
>> --
>> The persona poem, as I know it, is more like the poet 'channeling'  
>> another person's thoughts/experiences.
>> As is often done in the case of dramatic monologue. For that, Ai's  
>> work has some good examples.
>>  For the lyric-I, itself, I'd get some Cavafy in there, the  
>> Whitman-Dickinson dyad
>> would be good, the ancient Chinese poets Li Po and Tu Fu, too.   
>> Finnegan
>>
>>
>> --------------------------------------------------------------------- 
>> ---
>> Play online games for FREE at Games.com! All of your favorites, no  
>> registration required and great graphics ? check it out! <http:// 
>> pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1211202682x1200689022/aol?redir=% 
>> 0Ahttp://www.games.com?ncid=emlcntusgame00000001>
>> --------------------------------------------------------------------- 
>> ---
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> New-Poetry mailing list
>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>>
>
> -- 
> Tad Richards
> http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/
> http://opusforty.blogspot.com/
>
> Don't forget to order your copy of FILM NOIR!
> http://stores.lulu.com/store.php?fAcctID=2712239
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry

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From Opus40-01 at opus40.org  Sat Oct 25 17:47:57 2008
From: Opus40-01 at opus40.org (TheOldMole)
Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2008 17:47:57 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] The lyric I
In-Reply-To: <648208b60810251437w21fb5545gaed7166f6f7b61f8@mail.gmail.com>
References: <bd1.415df3f4.3634c6b2@aol.com> <490378FD.4040108@opus40.org>
	<648208b60810251437w21fb5545gaed7166f6f7b61f8@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4903940D.9080101@opus40.org>

Yeah -- that's one of the things I think I'm gonna do -- give them a 
selection of poems written in the first person, and ask them to decide 
which are mostly persona, which are mostly autobiography.

And I may ask them to do a writing exercise -- to rewrite a first person 
poem by one poet in the style of another. This is something I've 
actually done myself, sort of.

James Cervantes wrote:
> Aye, Tad.  And now you have your choice of all of the above, including 
> those who pretend to be using a persona "I" when in fact it's them! 
>  Rascals.  Good luck.
>
> - Jim
>
> On Sat, Oct 25, 2008 at 12:52 PM, TheOldMole <Opus40-01 at opus40.org 
> <mailto:Opus40-01 at opus40.org>> wrote:
>
>     That'll be kinda my point in this workshop -- the difference
>     between writing about yourself and creating a persona.
>
>     JforJames at aol.com <mailto:JforJames at aol.com> wrote:
>
>         In a message dated 10/25/2008 1:58:12 PM Eastern Daylight
>         Time, Opus40-01 at opus40.org <mailto:Opus40-01 at opus40.org> writes:
>
>            I guess I'm going to have to dig down to my own resources,
>         and put
>            together a packet of some sort. That, unfortunately, always
>         turns
>            out to
>            be the best way, because if I flagellate myself enough, I'm
>         generally
>            the best judge of what I need.
>
>            I have to give a one-day workshop on "persona," and I'm tossing
>            around
>            trying to figure out what I've gotten myself into, and what I'm
>            going to do.
>
>         --
>         The persona poem, as I know it, is more like the poet
>         'channeling' another person's thoughts/experiences.
>         As is often done in the case of dramatic monologue. For that,
>         Ai's work has some good examples.
>          For the lyric-I, itself, I'd get some Cavafy in there, the
>         Whitman-Dickinson dyad
>         would be good, the ancient Chinese poets Li Po and Tu Fu, too.
>          Finnegan
>
>
>         ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>         Play online games for FREE at Games.com! All of your
>         favorites, no registration required and great graphics ? check
>         it out!
>         <http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1211202682x1200689022/aol?redir=%0Ahttp://www.games.com?ncid=emlcntusgame00000001>
>         ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
>         _______________________________________________
>         New-Poetry mailing list
>         New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu <mailto:New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
>         http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>          
>
>
>     -- 
>     Tad Richards
>     http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/
>     http://opusforty.blogspot.com/
>
>     Don't forget to order your copy of FILM NOIR!
>     http://stores.lulu.com/store.php?fAcctID=2712239
>
>     _______________________________________________
>     New-Poetry mailing list
>     New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu <mailto:New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
>     http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>   

-- 
Tad Richards
http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/
http://opusforty.blogspot.com/

Don't forget to order your copy of FILM NOIR!
http://stores.lulu.com/store.php?fAcctID=2712239



From Opus40-01 at opus40.org  Sat Oct 25 17:48:31 2008
From: Opus40-01 at opus40.org (TheOldMole)
Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2008 17:48:31 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: The lyric I
In-Reply-To: <049DF786-EEC9-4A5D-B9D0-072F2EA7DCB7@ripon.edu>
References: <bd1.415df3f4.3634c6b2@aol.com> <490378FD.4040108@opus40.org>
	<049DF786-EEC9-4A5D-B9D0-072F2EA7DCB7@ripon.edu>
Message-ID: <4903942F.9030500@opus40.org>

David -- thanks -- this'll help a lot.

David Graham wrote:
> And before I forget, another resource :  the online journal 
> *Poemeleon* recently did a whole issue on Persona, with an array of 
> poems and also some critical writing.  
>
> http://www.poemeleon.org/
>
> Check the Summer 08 issue.
>
>
> ========================================
> David Graham
> grahamd at ripon.edu <mailto:grahamd at ripon.edu>
>
> Home Page:
> http://web.mac.com/drjazz
>
> Poetry Library:
> http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html
> ==========================================
>
>
>
>
> On Oct 25, 2008, at 2:52 PM, TheOldMole wrote:
>
>> That'll be kinda my point in this workshop -- the difference between 
>> writing about yourself and creating a persona.
>>
>> JforJames at aol.com <mailto:JforJames at aol.com> wrote:
>>> In a message dated 10/25/2008 1:58:12 PM Eastern Daylight Time, 
>>> Opus40-01 at opus40.org <mailto:Opus40-01 at opus40.org> writes:
>>>
>>>     I guess I'm going to have to dig down to my own resources, and put
>>>     together a packet of some sort. That, unfortunately, always turns
>>>     out to
>>>     be the best way, because if I flagellate myself enough, I'm 
>>> generally
>>>     the best judge of what I need.
>>>
>>>     I have to give a one-day workshop on "persona," and I'm tossing
>>>     around
>>>     trying to figure out what I've gotten myself into, and what I'm
>>>     going to do.
>>>
>>> --
>>> The persona poem, as I know it, is more like the poet 'channeling' 
>>> another person's thoughts/experiences.
>>> As is often done in the case of dramatic monologue. For that, Ai's 
>>> work has some good examples.
>>>  For the lyric-I, itself, I'd get some Cavafy in there, the 
>>> Whitman-Dickinson dyad
>>> would be good, the ancient Chinese poets Li Po and Tu Fu, too.  
>>> Finnegan 
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> Play online games for FREE at Games.com! All of your favorites, no 
>>> registration required and great graphics ? check it out! 
>>> <http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1211202682x1200689022/aol?redir=%0Ahttp://www.games.com?ncid=emlcntusgame00000001>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> New-Poetry mailing list
>>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu <mailto:New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
>>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>>>
>>>   
>>>
>>
>> -- 
>> Tad Richards
>> http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/
>> http://opusforty.blogspot.com/
>>
>> Don't forget to order your copy of FILM NOIR!
>> http://stores.lulu.com/store.php?fAcctID=2712239
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> New-Poetry mailing list
>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu <mailto:New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>   

-- 
Tad Richards
http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/
http://opusforty.blogspot.com/

Don't forget to order your copy of FILM NOIR!
http://stores.lulu.com/store.php?fAcctID=2712239



From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net  Sat Oct 25 19:00:09 2008
From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman)
Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2008 18:00:09 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] The lyric I
In-Reply-To: <490378FD.4040108@opus40.org>
References: <bd1.415df3f4.3634c6b2@aol.com> <490378FD.4040108@opus40.org>
Message-ID: <4903A4F9.3010606@nut-n-but.net>

I can only think of one lyric I visual poem--that's confessional (I 
think).  It's by Richard Kostelanetz: a huge more-wide-than-high 
rectangle that's all black except for a white line down the center; two 
tiny white squares on the right border; two tiny white triangles on the 
bottom border, to the left;
and centered above them on the top border, another white triangle.  So 
if you look at it carefully, you will finally see that it says, "ME." 

There's also a poem well-known in vispo circles that consists of a large 
lower-case "i" with a thumb-print replacing its dot.  jw curry.  Not 
very confessional. 

Actually, now that I think about it, there are definitely confessional. 
lyric I visual poems around, but they aren't my cup, so I can't remember 
details.  Mostly (don't shoot me, I'm just reporting) by women.  Lots of 
text, personal and emotional, but using vispo devices--collage, 
calligraphy, over-printing, etc. 

--Bob G.



From halvard at earthlink.net  Sat Oct 25 18:26:00 2008
From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson)
Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2008 17:26:00 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] The lyric I
In-Reply-To: <490378FD.4040108@opus40.org>
References: <bd1.415df3f4.3634c6b2@aol.com> <490378FD.4040108@opus40.org>
Message-ID: <9D2B7D2E-397C-452C-9151-9F2DFCC2D2BF@earthlink.net>

But yourself--that's just another persona.

Hal

McCain / Palin -- Just say thanks but no thanks.
They're a bridge to nowhere.

Halvard Johnson
================
halvard at earthlink.net
halvard at gmail.com
http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html
http://entropyandme.blogspot.com
http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com
http://www.hamiltonstone.org
http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html



On Oct 25, 2008, at 2:52 PM, TheOldMole wrote:

> That'll be kinda my point in this workshop -- the difference between  
> writing about yourself and creating a persona.



From Opus40-01 at opus40.org  Sat Oct 25 19:10:08 2008
From: Opus40-01 at opus40.org (TheOldMole)
Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2008 19:10:08 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] The lyric I
In-Reply-To: <9D2B7D2E-397C-452C-9151-9F2DFCC2D2BF@earthlink.net>
References: <bd1.415df3f4.3634c6b2@aol.com> <490378FD.4040108@opus40.org>
	<9D2B7D2E-397C-452C-9151-9F2DFCC2D2BF@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <4903A750.4060707@opus40.org>

In my case, two.

Halvard Johnson wrote:
> But yourself--that's just another persona.
>
> Hal
>
> McCain / Palin -- Just say thanks but no thanks.
> They're a bridge to nowhere.
>
> Halvard Johnson
> ================
> halvard at earthlink.net
> halvard at gmail.com
> http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html
> http://entropyandme.blogspot.com
> http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com
> http://www.hamiltonstone.org
> http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html
>
>
>
> On Oct 25, 2008, at 2:52 PM, TheOldMole wrote:
>
>> That'll be kinda my point in this workshop -- the difference between 
>> writing about yourself and creating a persona.
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>

-- 
Tad Richards
http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/
http://opusforty.blogspot.com/

Don't forget to order your copy of FILM NOIR!
http://stores.lulu.com/store.php?fAcctID=2712239



From suelin6787 at charter.net  Sun Oct 26 07:52:37 2008
From: suelin6787 at charter.net (Linda Sue Grimes)
Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 06:52:37 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetic Justice
References: <bd1.415df3f4.3634c6b2@aol.com>
	<490378FD.4040108@opus40.org><9D2B7D2E-397C-452C-9151-9F2DFCC2D2BF@earthlink.net>
	<4903A750.4060707@opus40.org>
Message-ID: <19982205FA1943C1B54D0292D9BDFF39@LindaSue>

Yesterday on my way to lunch at Doe's,  I passed one of the homeless guys in that area, with a sign that read "Vote Obama, I need the money." 



Once inside Doe's my waiter had on a "Obama 08" tee shirt.

When the bill came, I decided not to tip the waiter and explained to him while he had given me exceptional service, that his tee shirt made me feel he obviously believes in Senator Obama's plan to redistribute the wealth.  I told him I was going to redistribute his tip to someone that I deemed more in need--the homeless guy outside.

He stood there in disbelief and angrily stormed away.

I went outside, gave the homeless guy $3 and told him to thank the waiter inside, as I had decided he could use the money more. The homeless guy looked at me in disbelief but seemed grateful.

As I got in my truck, I realized this rather unscientific redistribution experiment had left the homeless guy quite happy for the money he did not earn, but the waiter was pretty angry that I gave away the money he did earn.  


Well, I guess this redistribution of wealth is going to take a while to catch on with those doing the work....
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From anny.ballardini at gmail.com  Sun Oct 26 08:18:35 2008
From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 13:18:35 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetic Justice
In-Reply-To: <19982205FA1943C1B54D0292D9BDFF39@LindaSue>
References: <bd1.415df3f4.3634c6b2@aol.com> <490378FD.4040108@opus40.org>
	<9D2B7D2E-397C-452C-9151-9F2DFCC2D2BF@earthlink.net>
	<4903A750.4060707@opus40.org>
	<19982205FA1943C1B54D0292D9BDFF39@LindaSue>
Message-ID: <4b65c2d70810260518r5a5e1329rcc0a561bae03e4a5@mail.gmail.com>

:-)
it seems all too logical to me,
take care, Anny

On Sun, Oct 26, 2008 at 12:52 PM, Linda Sue Grimes
<suelin6787 at charter.net>wrote:

>  Yesterday on my way to lunch at Doe's,  I passed one of the homeless guys
> in that area, with a sign that read "Vote Obama, I need the money."
>
>
>
> Once inside Doe's my waiter had on a "Obama 08" tee shirt.
>
> When the bill came, I decided not to tip the waiter and explained to him
> while he had given me exceptional service, that his tee shirt made me feel
> he obviously believes in Senator Obama's plan to redistribute the wealth.
>  I told him I was going to redistribute his tip to someone that I deemed
> more in need--the homeless guy outside.
>
> He stood there in disbelief and angrily stormed away.
>
> I went outside, gave the homeless guy $3 and told him to thank the waiter
> inside, as I had decided he could use the money more. The homeless guy
> looked at me in disbelief but seemed grateful.
>
> As I got in my truck, I realized this rather unscientific redistribution
> experiment had left the homeless guy quite happy for the money he did not
> earn, but the waiter was pretty angry that I gave away the money he did
> earn.
>
> Well, I guess this redistribution of wealth is going to take a while to
> catch on with those doing the work....
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
>


-- 
Anny Ballardini
http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html
I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing
star!
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From anny.ballardini at gmail.com  Sun Oct 26 09:48:06 2008
From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 14:48:06 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] online Dictionaries
Message-ID: <4b65c2d70810260648h10abce06oe8c1887c90efd28a@mail.gmail.com>

You probably all know this site, but I just stumbled on it and it seems to
me worth a link:

http://onlinedictionary.datasegment.com/

-- 
Anny Ballardini
http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html
I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing
star!
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From Opus40-01 at opus40.org  Sun Oct 26 10:07:58 2008
From: Opus40-01 at opus40.org (TheOldMole)
Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 10:07:58 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetic Justice
In-Reply-To: <19982205FA1943C1B54D0292D9BDFF39@LindaSue>
References: <bd1.415df3f4.3634c6b2@aol.com>	<490378FD.4040108@opus40.org><9D2B7D2E-397C-452C-9151-9F2DFCC2D2BF@earthlink.net>	<4903A750.4060707@opus40.org>
	<19982205FA1943C1B54D0292D9BDFF39@LindaSue>
Message-ID: <490479BE.3030701@opus40.org>

Among other problems -- very few analogies between individual behavior 
and social policy work. You could equally well say that you passed a 
beggar wearing a McCain T Shirt, took all the money out of his cup, were 
served by a waiter wearing a McCain T-Shirt (or a Palin $500 designer T 
shirt), went around and grabbed all the tips off all his tables, and 
kept it for yourself -- or gave it all to the owner of the restaurant.

Republicans don't actually act that way, and Democrats don't actually 
act that way. And if the waiter isn't making over $250,000 a year, you 
wouldn't be taking his tip money anyway. You might pressure the owner of 
the restaurant, if he was making a profit of over $250,000, to pay the 
waiter a living wage, and you might give the homeless guy tuition to a 
local community college so that he can join the ranks of the employed 
and regain that home that he lost when it was foreclosed as a result of 
your taking his money, and the waiters, and giving it to bankers to bail 
them out.

Linda Sue Grimes wrote:
>
> Yesterday on my way to lunch at Doe's,  I passed one of the homeless 
> guys in that area, with a sign that read "Vote Obama, I need the money." 
>
>  
>
> Once inside Doe's my waiter had on a "Obama 08" tee shirt.
>
> When the bill came, I decided not to tip the waiter and explained to 
> him while he had given me exceptional service, that his tee shirt made 
> me feel he obviously believes in Senator Obama's plan to redistribute 
> the wealth.  I told him I was going to redistribute his tip to someone 
> that I deemed more in need--the homeless guy outside.
>
> He stood there in disbelief and angrily stormed away.
>
> I went outside, gave the homeless guy $3 and told him to thank the 
> waiter inside, as I had decided he could use the money more. The 
> homeless guy looked at me in disbelief but seemed grateful.
>
> As I got in my truck, I realized this rather unscientific 
> redistribution experiment had left the homeless guy quite happy for 
> the money he did not earn, but the waiter was pretty angry that I gave 
> away the money he did earn.  
>
>
> Well, I guess this redistribution of wealth is going to take a while 
> to catch on with those doing the work....
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>   

-- 
Tad Richards
http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/
http://opusforty.blogspot.com/

Don't forget to order your copy of FILM NOIR!
http://stores.lulu.com/store.php?fAcctID=2712239



From cervantes.james at gmail.com  Sun Oct 26 10:31:19 2008
From: cervantes.james at gmail.com (James Cervantes)
Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 07:31:19 -0700
Subject: [New-Poetry] The lyric I
In-Reply-To: <4903A750.4060707@opus40.org>
References: <bd1.415df3f4.3634c6b2@aol.com> <490378FD.4040108@opus40.org>
	<9D2B7D2E-397C-452C-9151-9F2DFCC2D2BF@earthlink.net>
	<4903A750.4060707@opus40.org>
Message-ID: <648208b60810260731i5547cd8bjdc410b8f29b234ed@mail.gmail.com>

Don't be chintzy.  Go for that crowd inside.

- Jim

On Sat, Oct 25, 2008 at 4:10 PM, TheOldMole <Opus40-01 at opus40.org> wrote:
> In my case, two.
>
> Halvard Johnson wrote:
>>
>> But yourself--that's just another persona.
>>
>> Hal
>>
>> McCain / Palin -- Just say thanks but no thanks.
>> They're a bridge to nowhere.
>>
>> Halvard Johnson
>> ================
>> halvard at earthlink.net
>> halvard at gmail.com
>> http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html
>> http://entropyandme.blogspot.com
>> http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com
>> http://www.hamiltonstone.org
>> http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html
>>
>>
>>
>> On Oct 25, 2008, at 2:52 PM, TheOldMole wrote:
>>
>>> That'll be kinda my point in this workshop -- the difference between
>>> writing about yourself and creating a persona.
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> New-Poetry mailing list
>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>>
>
> --
> Tad Richards
> http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/
> http://opusforty.blogspot.com/
>
> Don't forget to order your copy of FILM NOIR!
> http://stores.lulu.com/store.php?fAcctID=2712239
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>


From Opus40-01 at opus40.org  Sun Oct 26 11:15:57 2008
From: Opus40-01 at opus40.org (TheOldMole)
Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 11:15:57 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] The lyric I
In-Reply-To: <648208b60810260731i5547cd8bjdc410b8f29b234ed@mail.gmail.com>
References: <bd1.415df3f4.3634c6b2@aol.com>
	<490378FD.4040108@opus40.org>	<9D2B7D2E-397C-452C-9151-9F2DFCC2D2BF@earthlink.net>	<4903A750.4060707@opus40.org>
	<648208b60810260731i5547cd8bjdc410b8f29b234ed@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <490489AD.1080709@opus40.org>

Do I contradict myself? Very well, then, I contradict myself...

James Cervantes wrote:
> Don't be chintzy.  Go for that crowd inside.
>
> - Jim
>
> On Sat, Oct 25, 2008 at 4:10 PM, TheOldMole <Opus40-01 at opus40.org> wrote:
>   
>> In my case, two.
>>
>> Halvard Johnson wrote:
>>     
>>> But yourself--that's just another persona.
>>>
>>> Hal
>>>
>>> McCain / Palin -- Just say thanks but no thanks.
>>> They're a bridge to nowhere.
>>>
>>> Halvard Johnson
>>> ================
>>> halvard at earthlink.net
>>> halvard at gmail.com
>>> http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html
>>> http://entropyandme.blogspot.com
>>> http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com
>>> http://www.hamiltonstone.org
>>> http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Oct 25, 2008, at 2:52 PM, TheOldMole wrote:
>>>
>>>       
>>>> That'll be kinda my point in this workshop -- the difference between
>>>> writing about yourself and creating a persona.
>>>>         
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> New-Poetry mailing list
>>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>>>
>>>       
>> --
>> Tad Richards
>> http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/
>> http://opusforty.blogspot.com/
>>
>> Don't forget to order your copy of FILM NOIR!
>> http://stores.lulu.com/store.php?fAcctID=2712239
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> New-Poetry mailing list
>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>>
>>     
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
>   

-- 
Tad Richards
http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/
http://opusforty.blogspot.com/

Don't forget to order your copy of FILM NOIR!
http://stores.lulu.com/store.php?fAcctID=2712239



From anny.ballardini at gmail.com  Sun Oct 26 11:39:17 2008
From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 16:39:17 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] The lyric I
In-Reply-To: <490489AD.1080709@opus40.org>
References: <bd1.415df3f4.3634c6b2@aol.com> <490378FD.4040108@opus40.org>
	<9D2B7D2E-397C-452C-9151-9F2DFCC2D2BF@earthlink.net>
	<4903A750.4060707@opus40.org>
	<648208b60810260731i5547cd8bjdc410b8f29b234ed@mail.gmail.com>
	<490489AD.1080709@opus40.org>
Message-ID: <4b65c2d70810260839w7537bd1va7bf9c0117cd131b@mail.gmail.com>

Out of a sense of duty, but I know you got to this site before:
http://www.thanalonline.com/Issues/09/literature_en.htm

Farideh interviewing some writers on the Persona Poem.


On Sun, Oct 26, 2008 at 4:15 PM, TheOldMole <Opus40-01 at opus40.org> wrote:

> Do I contradict myself? Very well, then, I contradict myself...
>
>
> James Cervantes wrote:
>
>> Don't be chintzy.  Go for that crowd inside.
>>
>> - Jim
>>
>> On Sat, Oct 25, 2008 at 4:10 PM, TheOldMole <Opus40-01 at opus40.org> wrote:
>>
>>
>>> In my case, two.
>>>
>>> Halvard Johnson wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> But yourself--that's just another persona.
>>>>
>>>> Hal
>>>>
>>>> McCain / Palin -- Just say thanks but no thanks.
>>>> They're a bridge to nowhere.
>>>>
>>>> Halvard Johnson
>>>> ================
>>>> halvard at earthlink.net
>>>> halvard at gmail.com
>>>> http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html<http://home.earthlink.net/%7Ehalvard/index.html>
>>>> http://entropyandme.blogspot.com
>>>> http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com
>>>> http://www.hamiltonstone.org
>>>> http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html<http://home.earthlink.net/%7Ehalvard/vidalocabooks.html>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Oct 25, 2008, at 2:52 PM, TheOldMole wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> That'll be kinda my point in this workshop -- the difference between
>>>>> writing about yourself and creating a persona.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> New-Poetry mailing list
>>>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>>>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>> --
>>> Tad Richards
>>> http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/
>>> http://opusforty.blogspot.com/
>>>
>>> Don't forget to order your copy of FILM NOIR!
>>> http://stores.lulu.com/store.php?fAcctID=2712239
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> New-Poetry mailing list
>>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> New-Poetry mailing list
>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>>
>>
>>
>
> --
> Tad Richards
> http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/
> http://opusforty.blogspot.com/
>
> Don't forget to order your copy of FILM NOIR!
> http://stores.lulu.com/store.php?fAcctID=2712239
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>



-- 
Anny Ballardini
http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html
I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing
star!
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From halvard at earthlink.net  Sun Oct 26 11:47:11 2008
From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson)
Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 09:47:11 -0600
Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetic Justice
In-Reply-To: <19982205FA1943C1B54D0292D9BDFF39@LindaSue>
References: <bd1.415df3f4.3634c6b2@aol.com>
	<490378FD.4040108@opus40.org><9D2B7D2E-397C-452C-9151-9F2DFCC2D2BF@earthlink.net>
	<4903A750.4060707@opus40.org>
	<19982205FA1943C1B54D0292D9BDFF39@LindaSue>
Message-ID: <D0724854-9018-4EFB-83E6-7DEA7C9798D3@earthlink.net>

Ooh, that'll teach him--damned liberal waiters.

Hal

McCain / Palin -- Just say thanks but no thanks.
They're a bridge to nowhere.

Halvard Johnson
================
halvard at earthlink.net
halvard at gmail.com
http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html
http://entropyandme.blogspot.com
http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com
http://www.hamiltonstone.org
http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html



On Oct 26, 2008, at 5:52 AM, Linda Sue Grimes wrote:

> Yesterday on my way to lunch at Doe's,  I passed one of the homeless  
> guys in that area, with a sign that read "Vote Obama, I need the  
> money."
>
> Once inside Doe's my waiter had on a "Obama 08" tee shirt.
>
> When the bill came, I decided not to tip the waiter and explained to  
> him while he had given me exceptional service, that his tee shirt  
> made me feel he obviously believes in Senator Obama's plan to  
> redistribute the wealth.  I told him I was going to redistribute his  
> tip to someone that I deemed more in need--the homeless guy outside.
>
> He stood there in disbelief and angrily stormed away.
>
> I went outside, gave the homeless guy $3 and told him to thank the  
> waiter inside, as I had decided he could use the money more. The  
> homeless guy looked at me in disbelief but seemed grateful.
>
> As I got in my truck, I realized this rather unscientific  
> redistribution experiment had left the homeless guy quite happy for  
> the money he did not earn, but the waiter was pretty angry that I  
> gave away the money he did earn.
>
> Well, I guess this redistribution of wealth is going to take a while  
> to catch on with those doing the work....
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry

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From grahamd at ripon.edu  Sun Oct 26 11:51:30 2008
From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham)
Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 10:51:30 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Poetic Justice
In-Reply-To: <D0724854-9018-4EFB-83E6-7DEA7C9798D3@earthlink.net>
References: <bd1.415df3f4.3634c6b2@aol.com>
	<490378FD.4040108@opus40.org><9D2B7D2E-397C-452C-9151-9F2DFCC2D2BF@earthlink.net>
	<4903A750.4060707@opus40.org>
	<19982205FA1943C1B54D0292D9BDFF39@LindaSue>
	<D0724854-9018-4EFB-83E6-7DEA7C9798D3@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <CEE7DDF3-CA3B-41EA-A67F-7F8698C070C5@ripon.edu>

I confess I was unaware that a lot of waiters earn more than a  
quarter million bucks per year.  Good to have my misunderstanding  
corrected. . . .


========================================
David Graham
grahamd at ripon.edu

Home Page:
http://web.mac.com/drjazz

Poetry Library:
http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html
==========================================




On Oct 26, 2008, at 10:47 AM, Halvard Johnson wrote:

> Ooh, that'll teach him--damned liberal waiters.
>
> Hal
>
> McCain / Palin -- Just say thanks but no thanks.
> They're a bridge to nowhere.
>
> Halvard Johnson
> ================
> halvard at earthlink.net
> halvard at gmail.com
> http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html
> http://entropyandme.blogspot.com
> http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com
> http://www.hamiltonstone.org
> http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html
>
>
>
> On Oct 26, 2008, at 5:52 AM, Linda Sue Grimes wrote:
>
>> Yesterday on my way to lunch at Doe's,  I passed one of the  
>> homeless guys in that area, with a sign that read "Vote Obama, I  
>> need the money."
>>
>> Once inside Doe's my waiter had on a "Obama 08" tee shirt.
>>
>> When the bill came, I decided not to tip the waiter and explained  
>> to him while he had given me exceptional service, that his tee  
>> shirt made me feel he obviously believes in Senator Obama's plan  
>> to redistribute the wealth.  I told him I was going to  
>> redistribute his tip to someone that I deemed more in need--the  
>> homeless guy outside.
>>
>> He stood there in disbelief and angrily stormed away.
>>
>> I went outside, gave the homeless guy $3 and told him to thank the  
>> waiter inside, as I had decided he could use the money more. The  
>> homeless guy looked at me in disbelief but seemed grateful.
>>
>> As I got in my truck, I realized this rather unscientific  
>> redistribution experiment had left the homeless guy quite happy  
>> for the money he did not earn, but the waiter was pretty angry  
>> that I gave away the money he did earn.
>>
>> Well, I guess this redistribution of wealth is going to take a  
>> while to catch on with those doing the work....
>> _______________________________________________
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From grahamd at ripon.edu  Sun Oct 26 12:34:17 2008
From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham)
Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 11:34:17 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Job opening: Chair of Dept. of Writing & Linguistics
Message-ID: <AB3A082D-C585-4AF7-B3DF-46D487BB5289@ripon.edu>

Forwarding this for a friend:




?

GEORGIA SOUTHERN UNIVERSITY
University System of Georgia
Chair and Associate Professor or Professor?Search #56620
Department of Writing & Linguistics





The College of Liberal Arts and Social Sciences (CLASS) invites  
nominations and applications for the position of Chair and Associate  
Professor or Professor in the Department of Writing and Linguistics.  
Georgia Southern University, an institution of the University System  
of Georgia, and a Carnegie Doctoral/Research University, is the  
largest and most comprehensive center of higher education in the  
southern half of Georgia. A residential university serving 16,841  
students in Fall 2007, Georgia Southern?s hallmark is a superior  
educational experience emphasizing academic distinction, excellent  
teaching, and student success. Founded in 1906, the University offers  
118 degree programs at the baccalaureate, master?s, and doctoral  
levels through eight colleges. The 675-acre campus is located in  
Statesboro, a Main Street community of approximately 30,000  
residents, 50 miles northwest of historic Savannah, and 200 miles  
southeast of Atlanta.

Within this setting, the Department of Writing and Linguistics offers  
a Bachelor of Arts degree to over 100 students majoring or minoring  
in one of four concentrations: Creative Writing, Linguistics,  
Professional and Technical Communication, and Writing Studies.   
Writing and Linguistics contributes significantly to the core  
curriculum with over 95% of the first-year composition classes taught  
by full-time faculty members.  The Department supports a National  
Writing Project site and the University Writing Center and hosts two  
conferences: Student Success in First-year Composition and Georgia  
Conference on Information Literacy.

Position Description. Reporting to the Dean of CLASS, the Chair?s  
responsibilities include administrative and leadership duties as well  
as teaching at least one class per academic year.  The position is a  
12-month appointment, with a competitive salary commensurate with  
qualifications and experience.  The Chair will be expected to help  
develop and strengthen the first-year writing program and the major,  
and provide support for departmental initiatives. The Chair would  
work within a collaborative departmental administrative structure,  
representing 48 full-time faculty members, which includes an  
assistant chair, concentration coordinators, and a first-year writing  
coordinator.  The successful candidate would embrace and further the  
cross-disciplinary nature of the department and its interaction with  
other departments in the University.


Required Qualifications:
?       Ph.D. or MFA in English, rhetoric and composition,  
linguistics or creative writing, or a terminal degree in a closely  
related field.

?       Evidence of teaching excellence in first-year composition and  
in one of the four departmental concentrations.

?       Minimum of four years college or university teaching  
experience at the assistant professor rank required for appointment  
at the associate professor rank plus a strong record of research and  
service with publications and presentations in professional venues.

?       Minimum of five years college or university teaching  
experience at the associate professor rank required for the  
appointment as professor along with a strong record of research and  
service with substantive publications and presentations in  
professional venues.

?       Ability to meet the requirements for appointment to the  
graduate faculty of the University

?       Administrative experience as demonstrated by a major role  
directing or chairing a department, program, or major committee

?       Evidence of a collaborative and visionary leadership style




Preferred Qualifications:

?       Experience in program development and resource and personnel  
management

?       Successful record of grant activity and/or fundraising

?       Demonstrated commitment to student and faculty diversity and  
multiculturalism



Screening of applications begins November 14, 2008, and continues  
until the position is filled. The position starting date is July 1,  
2009. A complete application consists of a letter addressing the  
qualifications cited above; a curriculum vitae; statements of  
teaching and administrative philosophies; and the names, addresses,  
telephone numbers, and email addresses of at least five professional  
references. Other documentation may be requested. Georgia Southern  
University seeks to recruit individuals who are committed to working  
in diverse academic and professional communities. Applications and  
nominations should be sent to:

          Dr. Pam Bourland-Davis, Dept. Chair and Search Chair

          Department of Communication Arts

          Search #56620

                            Georgia Southern University

                            P. O. Box 8091

                            Statesboro GA 30460-8091

          Electronic mail: pamelagb at georgiasouthern.edu

          Telephone: 912-478-5138


More information about the institution is available through http:// 
www.georgiasouthern.edu, http://class.georgiasouthern.edu/writling,  
or at http://Chronicle.com/jobs/profiles/911.htm. Finalists will be  
required to submit to a background investigation. Georgia is an Open  
Records state. Georgia Southern University is an AA/EO institution.  
Individuals who need reasonable accommodations under the ADA to  
participate in the search process should contact the Associate




========================================
David Graham
grahamd at ripon.edu

Home Page:
http://web.mac.com/drjazz

Poetry Library:
http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html
==========================================




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From JforJames at aol.com  Sun Oct 26 13:03:27 2008
From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 13:03:27 EDT
Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetic Justice
Message-ID: <bdc.37426d52.3635fcdf@aol.com>

 
 
 
In a message dated 10/26/2008 7:52:17 AM Eastern Daylight Time,  
suelin6787 at charter.net writes:

redistribute the wealth


--
What an odd idea of 'wealth' your have...a low wage rate plus tips =  wealth.
It's the absolute (50% of $300,000 leaves one with $150,000) and  not the 
relative (10% of
$30,000 leaves one with $27,000) that matters. The percentages  are the 
relative,
the absolutes are the nets, so which of those sums would you like to  try to 
live on?.



**************Play online games for FREE at Games.com! All of your favorites, 
no registration required and great graphics ? check it out! 
(http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1211202682x1200689022/aol?redir=
http://www.games.com?ncid=emlcntusgame00000001)
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From anny.ballardini at gmail.com  Sun Oct 26 13:26:27 2008
From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 18:26:27 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetic Justice
In-Reply-To: <bdc.37426d52.3635fcdf@aol.com>
References: <bdc.37426d52.3635fcdf@aol.com>
Message-ID: <4b65c2d70810261026r7553dd6bp63847b56b2bdb363@mail.gmail.com>

If you ask me, I could easily go with the Absolute,
Thanks.

On Sun, Oct 26, 2008 at 6:03 PM, <JforJames at aol.com> wrote:

>   In a message dated 10/26/2008 7:52:17 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
> suelin6787 at charter.net writes:
>
> redistribute the wealth
>
>  --
> What an odd idea of 'wealth' your have...a low wage rate plus tips =
> wealth.
> It's the absolute (50% of $300,000 leaves one with $150,000) and
> not the relative (10% of
> $30,000 leaves one with $27,000) that matters. The percentages are the
> relative,
> the absolutes are the nets, so which of those sums would you like to try to
> live on?.
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
> Play online games for FREE at Games.com! All of your favorites, no
> registration required and great graphics ? check it out!<http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1211202682x1200689022/aol?redir=%0Ahttp://www.games.com?ncid=emlcntusgame00000001>
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
>


-- 
Anny Ballardini
http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html
I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing
star!
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From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net  Sun Oct 26 14:53:31 2008
From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman)
Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 13:53:31 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetic Justice
In-Reply-To: <19982205FA1943C1B54D0292D9BDFF39@LindaSue>
References: <bd1.415df3f4.3634c6b2@aol.com><490378FD.4040108@opus40.org><9D2B7D2E-397C-452C-9151-9F2DFCC2D2BF@earthlink.net><4903
	A750.4060707@opus40.org>
	<19982205FA1943C1B54D0292D9BDFF39@LindaSue>
Message-ID: <4904BCAB.1060704@nut-n-but.net>

Just so you won't feel too lonely, Linda Sue, I'm on your side in this.  
People like your waiter are for the distribution of wealth only so long 
as it's the wealth of others.  On the other hand, the less politics we 
have here, the better I'd like it.

--Bob G.



From Opus40-01 at opus40.org  Sun Oct 26 13:59:17 2008
From: Opus40-01 at opus40.org (TheOldMole)
Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 13:59:17 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetic Justice
In-Reply-To: <4b65c2d70810261026r7553dd6bp63847b56b2bdb363@mail.gmail.com>
References: <bdc.37426d52.3635fcdf@aol.com>
	<4b65c2d70810261026r7553dd6bp63847b56b2bdb363@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4904AFF5.5080808@opus40.org>

Do I also get to be an Absolute Monarch?

Anny Ballardini wrote:
> If you ask me, I could easily go with the Absolute,
> Thanks.
>
> On Sun, Oct 26, 2008 at 6:03 PM, <JforJames at aol.com 
> <mailto:JforJames at aol.com>> wrote:
>
>     In a message dated 10/26/2008 7:52:17 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
>     suelin6787 at charter.net <mailto:suelin6787 at charter.net> writes:
>
>         redistribute the wealth
>
>     --
>     What an odd idea of 'wealth' your have...a low wage rate plus tips
>     = wealth.
>     It's the absolute (50% of $300,000 leaves one with $150,000) and
>     not the relative (10% of
>     $30,000 leaves one with $27,000) that matters. The percentages are
>     the relative,
>     the absolutes are the nets, so which of those sums would you like
>     to try to live on?.
>
>
>
>
>     ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>     Play online games for FREE at Games.com! All of your favorites, no
>     registration required and great graphics ? check it out!
>     <http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1211202682x1200689022/aol?redir=%0Ahttp://www.games.com?ncid=emlcntusgame00000001>
>
>     _______________________________________________
>     New-Poetry mailing list
>     New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu <mailto:New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
>     http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
>
>
>
> -- 
> Anny Ballardini
> http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
> http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
> http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html
> I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a 
> dancing star!
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>   

-- 
Tad Richards
http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/
http://opusforty.blogspot.com/

Don't forget to order your copy of FILM NOIR!
http://stores.lulu.com/store.php?fAcctID=2712239



From anny.ballardini at gmail.com  Sun Oct 26 14:03:42 2008
From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 19:03:42 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetic Justice
In-Reply-To: <4904AFF5.5080808@opus40.org>
References: <bdc.37426d52.3635fcdf@aol.com>
	<4b65c2d70810261026r7553dd6bp63847b56b2bdb363@mail.gmail.com>
	<4904AFF5.5080808@opus40.org>
Message-ID: <4b65c2d70810261103ic099561t1e105c8efd9649ad@mail.gmail.com>

Since you are asking, OldMole, I think an ermine would suit you well in
these cold evenings.

On Sun, Oct 26, 2008 at 6:59 PM, TheOldMole <Opus40-01 at opus40.org> wrote:

> Do I also get to be an Absolute Monarch?
>
> Anny Ballardini wrote:
>
>> If you ask me, I could easily go with the Absolute,
>> Thanks.
>>
>> On Sun, Oct 26, 2008 at 6:03 PM, <JforJames at aol.com <mailto:
>> JforJames at aol.com>> wrote:
>>
>>    In a message dated 10/26/2008 7:52:17 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
>>    suelin6787 at charter.net <mailto:suelin6787 at charter.net> writes:
>>
>>        redistribute the wealth
>>
>>    --
>>    What an odd idea of 'wealth' your have...a low wage rate plus tips
>>    = wealth.
>>    It's the absolute (50% of $300,000 leaves one with $150,000) and
>>    not the relative (10% of
>>    $30,000 leaves one with $27,000) that matters. The percentages are
>>    the relative,
>>    the absolutes are the nets, so which of those sums would you like
>>    to try to live on?.
>>
>>
>>
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From Opus40-01 at opus40.org  Sun Oct 26 14:05:16 2008
From: Opus40-01 at opus40.org (TheOldMole)
Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 14:05:16 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetic Justice
In-Reply-To: <4904BCAB.1060704@nut-n-but.net>
References: <bd1.415df3f4.3634c6b2@aol.com><490378FD.4040108@opus40.org><9D2B7D2E-397C-452C-9151-9F2DFCC2D2BF@earthlink.net><4903	A750.4060707@opus40.org>	<19982205FA1943C1B54D0292D9BDFF39@LindaSue>
	<4904BCAB.1060704@nut-n-but.net>
Message-ID: <4904B15C.7040907@opus40.org>

I'm with Bob on the latter statement. I come here to discuss poetry and 
get away from politics.

Bob Grumman wrote:
> Just so you won't feel too lonely, Linda Sue, I'm on your side in 
> this.  People like your waiter are for the distribution of wealth only 
> so long as it's the wealth of others.  On the other hand, the less 
> politics we have here, the better I'd like it.
>
> --Bob G.
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>

-- 
Tad Richards
http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/
http://opusforty.blogspot.com/

Don't forget to order your copy of FILM NOIR!
http://stores.lulu.com/store.php?fAcctID=2712239



From millb at aol.com  Sun Oct 26 14:42:56 2008
From: millb at aol.com (Millicent Accardi)
Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 14:42:56 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetic Justice
In-Reply-To: <4904BCAB.1060704@nut-n-but.net>
References: <bd1.415df3f4.3634c6b2@aol.com><490378FD.4040108@opus40.org><9D2B7D2E-397C-452C-9151-9F2DFCC2D2BF@earthlink.net><4903A750.4060707@opus40.org><19982205FA1943C1B54D0292D9BDFF39@LindaSue>
	<4904BCAB.1060704@nut-n-but.net>
Message-ID: <8CB05B1CBCF813E-C64-1680@webmail-md04.sysops.aol.com>

Aye! Aye!? The only thing "poetic" about the political thread was the subject line, which I thought might have something to do with a movie about performance poetry that a friend of mine worked on in New Mexico last spring and which is supposed to be out in theaters this winter.


Cheers,

Millicent Borges Accardi


-----Original Message-----
From: Bob Grumman <bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net>
Sent: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 11:53 am
Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Poetic Justice



Just so you won't feel too lonely, Linda Sue, I'm on your side in this. People like your waiter are for the distribution of wealth only so long as it's the wealth of others. On the other hand, the less politics we have here, the better I'd like it.?
?
--Bob G.?
?
_______________________________________________?
New-Poetry mailing list?
New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu?
http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry?

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From Opus40-01 at opus40.org  Sun Oct 26 15:12:08 2008
From: Opus40-01 at opus40.org (TheOldMole)
Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 15:12:08 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetic Justice
In-Reply-To: <8CB05B1CBCF813E-C64-1680@webmail-md04.sysops.aol.com>
References: <bd1.415df3f4.3634c6b2@aol.com><490378FD.4040108@opus40.org><9D2B7D2E-397C-452C-9151-9F2DFCC2D2BF@earthlink.net><4903A750.4060707@opus40.org><19982205FA1943C1B54D0292D9BDFF39@LindaSue>	<4904BCAB.1060704@nut-n-but.net>
	<8CB05B1CBCF813E-C64-1680@webmail-md04.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <4904C108.5070304@opus40.org>

There was a movie with that title, starring Janet Jackson and Tupac 
Shakur, that really wasn't bad. Maya Angelou, I believe, wrote Jackson's 
poetry. And it featured a scene with the great Last Poets that was worth 
the price of admission.

Millicent Accardi wrote:
> Aye! Aye!  The only thing "poetic" about the political thread was the 
> subject line, which I thought might have something to do with a movie 
> about performance poetry that a friend of mine worked on in New Mexico 
> last spring and which is supposed to be out in theaters this winter.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Millicent Borges Accardi
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Bob Grumman <bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net>
> Sent: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 11:53 am
> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Poetic Justice
>
> Just so you won't feel too lonely, Linda Sue, I'm on your side in 
> this. People like your waiter are for the distribution of wealth only 
> so long as it's the wealth of others. On the other hand, the less 
> politics we have here, the better I'd like it. 
>  
> --Bob G. 
>  
> _______________________________________________ 
> New-Poetry mailing list 
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu <mailto:New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu> 
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry 
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> McCain or Obama? Stay updated on coverage of the Presidential race 
> while you browse - Download Now! 
> <http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1211139166x1200680084/aol?redir=http://toolbar.aol.com/elections/download.html?ncid=emlweusdown00000002> 
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>   

-- 
Tad Richards
http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/
http://opusforty.blogspot.com/

Don't forget to order your copy of FILM NOIR!
http://stores.lulu.com/store.php?fAcctID=2712239



From grahamd at ripon.edu  Sun Oct 26 15:17:11 2008
From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham)
Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 14:17:11 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Political poem
Message-ID: <1C49DDFE-6C57-4355-9CE4-749EFB996A9C@ripon.edu>

Eulogy For A Politician

Let others praise him:  virtuous, sweet,
Who lies here enduring his last defeat.
Whether Heaven or Hell now lies in store,
Here lies a man who need lie no more.



========================================
David Graham
grahamd at ripon.edu

Home Page:
http://web.mac.com/drjazz

Poetry Library:
http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html
==========================================




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From millb at aol.com  Sun Oct 26 15:19:43 2008
From: millb at aol.com (Millicent Accardi)
Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 15:19:43 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetic Justice
In-Reply-To: <4904C108.5070304@opus40.org>
References: <bd1.415df3f4.3634c6b2@aol.com><490378FD.4040108@opus40.org><9D2B7D2E-397C-452C-9151-9F2DFCC2D2BF@earthlink.net><4903A750.4060707@opus40.org><19982205FA1943C1B54D0292D9BDFF39@LindaSue>	<4904BCAB.1060704@nut-n-but.net><8CB05B1CBCF813E-C64-1680@webmail-md04.sysops.aol.com>
	<4904C108.5070304@opus40.org>
Message-ID: <8CB05B6EF3E2CB9-C64-1788@webmail-md04.sysops.aol.com>

I remember that film wth Janet Jackson.? 

The new one I'm referring to is?called "Spoken Word" or at least that's its working title in post-production.

It's about?"a?San Francisco spoken word artist returns to New Mexico to be with his dying father, only to find he loses his "voice" as he is sucked back in to the dysfunctional life of drugs and violence he left behind" (from IMDB).

The subject line just reminded me of a movie. . .and I was hopeful that the post was about poetry's role in cinema or something like that!


Cheers,

Millicent Borges Accardi

-----Original Message-----
From: TheOldMole <Opus40-01 at opus40.org>
Sent: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 12:12 pm
Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Poetic Justice



There was a movie with that title, starring Janet Jackson and Tupac Shakur, that really wasn't bad. Maya Angelou, I believe, wrote Jackson's poetry. And it featured a scene with the great Last Poets that was worth the price of admission.?
?
Millicent Accardi wrote:?
> Aye! Aye! The only thing "poetic" about the political thread was the > subject line, which I thought might have something to do with a movie > about performance poetry that a friend of mine worked on in New Mexico > last spring and which is supposed to be out in theaters this winter.?
>?
> Cheers,?
>?
> Millicent Borges Accardi?
>?
>?
> -----Original Message-----?
> From: Bob Grumman <bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net>?
> Sent: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 11:53 am?
> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Poetic Justice?
>?
> Just so you won't feel too lonely, Linda Sue, I'm on your side in > this. People like your waiter are for the distribution of wealth only > so long as it's the wealth of others. On the other hand, the less > politics we have here, the better I'd like it. > > --Bob G. > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu <mailto:New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu> > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >?
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------?
> McCain or Obama? Stay updated on coverage of the Presidential race > while you browse - Download Now! > <http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1211139166x1200680084/aol?redir=http://toolbar.aol.com/elections/download.html?ncid=emlweusdown00000002> >?
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------?
>?
> _______________________________________________?
> New-Poetry mailing list?
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu?
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry?
> ?
-- Tad Richards?
http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/?
http://opusforty.blogspot.com/?
?
Don't forget to order your copy of FILM NOIR!?
http://stores.lulu.com/store.php?fAcctID=2712239?
?
_______________________________________________?
New-Poetry mailing list?
New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu?
http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry?

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From Opus40-01 at opus40.org  Sun Oct 26 15:35:48 2008
From: Opus40-01 at opus40.org (TheOldMole)
Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 15:35:48 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetic Justice
In-Reply-To: <8CB05B6EF3E2CB9-C64-1788@webmail-md04.sysops.aol.com>
References: <bd1.415df3f4.3634c6b2@aol.com><490378FD.4040108@opus40.org><9D2B7D2E-397C-452C-9151-9F2DFCC2D2BF@earthlink.net><4903A750.4060707@opus40.org><19982205FA1943C1B54D0292D9BDFF39@LindaSue>	<4904BCAB.1060704@nut-n-but.net><8CB05B1CBCF813E-C64-1680@webmail-md04.sysops.aol.com>	<4904C108.5070304@opus40.org>
	<8CB05B6EF3E2CB9-C64-1788@webmail-md04.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <4904C694.8020404@opus40.org>

Movies written by poets:

Les Enfants du Paradis, screenplay by Jacques Prevert

Joseph Moncure March -- The Set-Up and The Wild Party were based on his 
poems, but he didn't write the screenplays. However, he did spend a 
whole bunch of time in Hollywood writing screenplays, including such 
classics as Jungle Love, Let 'em Have It, and Woman Doctor.

He did also write a version of Madame Butterfly that starred Sylvia 
Sidney and Cary Grant, and adapted Dreiser's Jennie Gerhardt for Sidney 
and Mary Astor.

Millicent Accardi wrote:
> I remember that film wth Janet Jackson. 
>
> The new one I'm referring to is called "Spoken Word" or at least 
> that's its working title in post-production.
>
> It's about "a San Francisco spoken word artist returns to New Mexico 
> to be with his dying father, only to find he loses his "voice" as he 
> is sucked back in to the dysfunctional life of drugs and violence he 
> left behind" (from IMDB).
>
> The subject line just reminded me of a movie. . .and I was hopeful 
> that the post was about poetry's role in cinema or something like that!
>
> Cheers,
>
> Millicent Borges Accardi
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: TheOldMole <Opus40-01 at opus40.org>
> Sent: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 12:12 pm
> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Poetic Justice
>
> There was a movie with that title, starring Janet Jackson and Tupac 
> Shakur, that really wasn't bad. Maya Angelou, I believe, wrote 
> Jackson's poetry. And it featured a scene with the great Last Poets 
> that was worth the price of admission. 
>  
> Millicent Accardi wrote: 
> > Aye! Aye! The only thing "poetic" about the political thread was the 
> > subject line, which I thought might have something to do with a 
> movie > about performance poetry that a friend of mine worked on in 
> New Mexico > last spring and which is supposed to be out in theaters 
> this winter. 
> > 
> > Cheers, 
> > 
> > Millicent Borges Accardi 
> > 
> > 
> > -----Original Message----- 
> > From: Bob Grumman <bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net 
> <mailto:bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net>> 
> > Sent: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 11:53 am 
> > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Poetic Justice 
> > 
> > Just so you won't feel too lonely, Linda Sue, I'm on your side in > 
> this. People like your waiter are for the distribution of wealth only 
> > so long as it's the wealth of others. On the other hand, the less > 
> politics we have here, the better I'd like it. > > --Bob G. > > 
> _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing 
> list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu <mailto:New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu> 
> <mailto:New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu 
> <mailto:New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu?>> > 
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > 
> > 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
> > McCain or Obama? Stay updated on coverage of the Presidential race > 
> while you browse - Download Now! > 
> <http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1211139166x1200680084/aol?redir=http://toolbar.aol.com/elections/download.html?ncid=emlweusdown00000002> 
> > 
> > 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
> > 
> > _______________________________________________ 
> > New-Poetry mailing list 
> > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu <mailto:New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu> 
> > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry 
> >  
> -- Tad Richards 
> http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ 
> http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ 
>  
> Don't forget to order your copy of FILM NOIR! 
> http://stores.lulu.com/store.php?fAcctID=2712239 
>  
> _______________________________________________ 
> New-Poetry mailing list 
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu <mailto:New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu> 
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry 
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> McCain or Obama? Stay updated on coverage of the Presidential race 
> while you browse - Download Now! 
> <http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1211139166x1200680084/aol?redir=http://toolbar.aol.com/elections/download.html?ncid=emlweusdown00000002> 
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>   

-- 
Tad Richards
http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/
http://opusforty.blogspot.com/

Don't forget to order your copy of FILM NOIR!
http://stores.lulu.com/store.php?fAcctID=2712239



From halvard at earthlink.net  Sun Oct 26 15:57:50 2008
From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson)
Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 13:57:50 -0600
Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetic Justice
In-Reply-To: <4904C694.8020404@opus40.org>
References: <bd1.415df3f4.3634c6b2@aol.com><490378FD.4040108@opus40.org><9D2B7D2E-397C-452C-9151-9F2DFCC2D2BF@earthlink.net><4903A750.4060707@opus40.org><19982205FA1943C1B54D0292D9BDFF39@LindaSue>	<4904BCAB.1060704@nut-n-but.net><8CB05B1CBCF813E-C64-1680@webmail-md04.sysops.aol.com>	<4904C108.5070304@opus40.org>
	<8CB05B6EF3E2CB9-C64-1788@webmail-md04.sysops.aol.com>
	<4904C694.8020404@opus40.org>
Message-ID: <8066F13C-E4A2-44B2-AF6D-4475A1CF1A6C@earthlink.net>

William Faulkner, of course, was credited with a number of screenplays
(incl. The Big Sleep)--not to mention quite a few novels and collections
of poetry.

Harold Pinter wrote a couple dozen screenplays, along with his poetry
and plays.

Hal

McCain / Palin -- Just say thanks but no thanks.
They're a bridge to nowhere.

Halvard Johnson
================
halvard at earthlink.net
halvard at gmail.com
http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html
http://entropyandme.blogspot.com
http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com
http://www.hamiltonstone.org
http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html



On Oct 26, 2008, at 1:35 PM, TheOldMole wrote:

> Movies written by poets:
>
> Les Enfants du Paradis, screenplay by Jacques Prevert
>
> Joseph Moncure March -- The Set-Up and The Wild Party were based on  
> his poems, but he didn't write the screenplays. However, he did  
> spend a whole bunch of time in Hollywood writing screenplays,  
> including such classics as Jungle Love, Let 'em Have It, and Woman  
> Doctor.
>
> He did also write a version of Madame Butterfly that starred Sylvia  
> Sidney and Cary Grant, and adapted Dreiser's Jennie Gerhardt for  
> Sidney and Mary Astor.



From anny.ballardini at gmail.com  Sun Oct 26 16:14:28 2008
From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 21:14:28 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] Political poem
In-Reply-To: <1C49DDFE-6C57-4355-9CE4-749EFB996A9C@ripon.edu>
References: <1C49DDFE-6C57-4355-9CE4-749EFB996A9C@ripon.edu>
Message-ID: <4b65c2d70810261314x5022ef97odf2db5b450a4b5eb@mail.gmail.com>

Lies and lies just heaping on his grave
they interweave can't believe he's dead
stunned they watch the sun rise & set
oh Lord he's gone where are we to rest.

On Sun, Oct 26, 2008 at 8:17 PM, David Graham <grahamd at ripon.edu> wrote:

> *Eulogy For A Politician*
>
> Let others praise him:  virtuous, sweet,
> Who lies here enduring his last defeat.
> Whether Heaven or Hell now lies in store,
> Here lies a man who need lie no more.
>
>
> ========================================
> David Graham
> grahamd at ripon.edu
>
> Home Page:
> http://web.mac.com/drjazz
>
> Poetry Library:
> http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html
> ==========================================
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
>


-- 
Anny Ballardini
http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html
I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing
star!
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From Opus40-01 at opus40.org  Sun Oct 26 16:43:01 2008
From: Opus40-01 at opus40.org (TheOldMole)
Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 16:43:01 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetic Justice
In-Reply-To: <8066F13C-E4A2-44B2-AF6D-4475A1CF1A6C@earthlink.net>
References: <bd1.415df3f4.3634c6b2@aol.com><490378FD.4040108@opus40.org><9D2B7D2E-397C-452C-9151-9F2DFCC2D2BF@earthlink.net><4903A750.4060707@opus40.org><19982205FA1943C1B54D0292D9BDFF39@LindaSue>	<4904BCAB.1060704@nut-n-but.net><8CB05B1CBCF813E-C64-1680@webmail-md04.sysops.aol.com>	<4904C108.5070304@opus40.org>	<8CB05B6EF3E2CB9-C64-1788@webmail-md04.sysops.aol.com>	<4904C694.8020404@opus40.org>
	<8066F13C-E4A2-44B2-AF6D-4475A1CF1A6C@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <4904D655.5090707@opus40.org>



Samuel Beckett has written screenplays, but not for feature films.

Halvard Johnson wrote:
> William Faulkner, of course, was credited with a number of screenplays
> (incl. The Big Sleep)--not to mention quite a few novels and collections
> of poetry.
>
> Harold Pinter wrote a couple dozen screenplays, along with his poetry
> and plays.
>
> Hal
>
> McCain / Palin -- Just say thanks but no thanks.
> They're a bridge to nowhere.
>
> Halvard Johnson
> ================
> halvard at earthlink.net
> halvard at gmail.com
> http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html
> http://entropyandme.blogspot.com
> http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com
> http://www.hamiltonstone.org
> http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html
>
>
>
> On Oct 26, 2008, at 1:35 PM, TheOldMole wrote:
>
>> Movies written by poets:
>>
>> Les Enfants du Paradis, screenplay by Jacques Prevert
>>
>> Joseph Moncure March -- The Set-Up and The Wild Party were based on 
>> his poems, but he didn't write the screenplays. However, he did spend 
>> a whole bunch of time in Hollywood writing screenplays, including 
>> such classics as Jungle Love, Let 'em Have It, and Woman Doctor.
>>
>> He did also write a version of Madame Butterfly that starred Sylvia 
>> Sidney and Cary Grant, and adapted Dreiser's Jennie Gerhardt for 
>> Sidney and Mary Astor.
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>

-- 
Tad Richards
http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/
http://opusforty.blogspot.com/

Don't forget to order your copy of FILM NOIR!
http://stores.lulu.com/store.php?fAcctID=2712239



From anny.ballardini at gmail.com  Sun Oct 26 16:49:04 2008
From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 21:49:04 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] Political poem
In-Reply-To: <4b65c2d70810261314x5022ef97odf2db5b450a4b5eb@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1C49DDFE-6C57-4355-9CE4-749EFB996A9C@ripon.edu>
	<4b65c2d70810261314x5022ef97odf2db5b450a4b5eb@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4b65c2d70810261349o6ef641b0uc5ed717c9251e20b@mail.gmail.com>

Let me add the right punctuation:

Lies and lies just heaping on his grave
they interweave can't believe he's dead
stunned they watch the sun rise & set:
"*Oh Lord he's gone where are we to rest.*"



On Sun, Oct 26, 2008 at 9:14 PM, Anny Ballardini
<anny.ballardini at gmail.com>wrote:

> Lies and lies just heaping on his grave
> they interweave can't believe he's dead
> stunned they watch the sun rise & set
> oh Lord he's gone where are we to rest.
>
> On Sun, Oct 26, 2008 at 8:17 PM, David Graham <grahamd at ripon.edu> wrote:
>
>> *Eulogy For A Politician*
>>
>> Let others praise him:  virtuous, sweet,
>> Who lies here enduring his last defeat.
>> Whether Heaven or Hell now lies in store,
>>  Here lies a man who need lie no more.
>>
>>
>> ========================================
>> David Graham
>> grahamd at ripon.edu
>>
>> Home Page:
>> http://web.mac.com/drjazz
>>
>> Poetry Library:
>> http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html
>> ==========================================
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> New-Poetry mailing list
>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Anny Ballardini
> http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
> http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
> http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html
> I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing
> star!
>
>


-- 
Anny Ballardini
http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html
I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing
star!
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From almaginnes at aol.com  Sun Oct 26 16:48:54 2008
From: almaginnes at aol.com (almaginnes at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 16:48:54 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Poetic Justice
In-Reply-To: <CEE7DDF3-CA3B-41EA-A67F-7F8698C070C5@ripon.edu>
References: <bd1.415df3f4.3634c6b2@aol.com><490378FD.4040108@opus40.org><9D2B7D2E-397C-452C-9151-9F2DFCC2D2BF@earthlink.net><4903A750.4060707@opus40.org><19982205FA1943C1B54D0292D9BDFF39@LindaSue><D0724854-9018-4EFB-83E6-7DEA7C9798D3@earthlink.net>
	<CEE7DDF3-CA3B-41EA-A67F-7F8698C070C5@ripon.edu>
Message-ID: <8CB05C364BEFF8B-D10-84C@webmail-db02.sysops.aol.com>

You darn liberals and your dreary insistence on facts. If a plumber's helper can earn $250, 000 a year why not a waiter?


-----Original Message-----
From: David Graham <grahamd at ripon.edu>
Sent: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 11:51 am
Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Poetic Justice


I confess I was unaware that a lot of waiters earn more than a quarter million bucks per year. ?Good to have my misunderstanding corrected. . . .






========================================

David Graham

grahamd at ripon.edu




Home Page:

http://web.mac.com/drjazz




Poetry Library:

http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html

==========================================









On Oct 26, 2008, at 10:47 AM, Halvard Johnson wrote:


Ooh, that'll teach him--damned liberal waiters.



Hal







McCain / Palin -- Just say thanks but no thanks.

They're a bridge to nowhere.




Halvard Johnson

================

halvard at earthlink.net

halvard at gmail.com

http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html

http://entropyandme.blogspot.com?

http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com
http://www.hamiltonstone.org


http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html













On Oct 26, 2008, at 5:52 AM, Linda Sue Grimes wrote:





Yesterday on my way to lunch at Doe's, ?I passed one of the homeless guys in that area, with a sign that read "Vote Obama, I need the money."?

?

Once inside Doe's my waiter had on a "Obama 08" tee shirt.

When the bill came, I decided not to tip the waiter and explained to him while he had given me exceptional service, that his tee shirt made me feel he obviously believes in Senator Obama's plan to redistribute the wealth.??I told him I was going to redistribute his tip to someone that I deemed more in need--the homeless guy outside.

He stood there in disbelief and angrily stormed away.

I went outside, gave the homeless guy $3 and told him to thank the waiter inside, as I had decided he could use the money more. The homeless guy looked at me in disbelief but seemed grateful.

As I got in my truck, I realized this rather unscientific redistribution experiment had left the homeless guy quite happy for the money he did not earn, but the waiter was pretty angry that I gave away the money he did earn.??

Well, I guess this redistribution of wealth is going to take a while to catch on with those doing the work....
_______________________________________________






= 


_______________________________________________
New-Poetry mailing list
New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry

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From JforJames at aol.com  Sun Oct 26 17:11:42 2008
From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 17:11:42 EDT
Subject: [New-Poetry] Wit & wisdon of Brenda Shaughnessy
Message-ID: <c81.3c8a7aab.3636370e@aol.com>

_http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/26/books/review/Kirby-t.html_ 
(http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/26/books/review/Kirby-t.html) 
 
There?s nothing gentle about Shaughnessy?s wit. ?Parthenogenesis? starts  
off as an ode to weight gain: ?It?s easy to make more of myself by eating,? it 
 begins, ?and sometimes easy?s the thing,? because if you?re twice 
yourself,  you?ve not only halved your troubles but you?ll never be lonely again. In 
the  same poem, a pregnant teenager also takes the easy route, by ?having the 
baby at  the prom / undetected and, in a trance of self-&shy;preservation, / 
throwing it  away in the girls? room trash,? which is good for the teenager, 
or so she  thinks, though not so good for anyone else. 
 
-
 
**************Play online games for FREE at Games.com! All of your favorites, 
no registration required and great graphics ? check it out! 
(http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1211202682x1200689022/aol?redir=
http://www.games.com?ncid=emlcntusgame00000001)
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From cervantes.james at gmail.com  Sun Oct 26 19:56:26 2008
From: cervantes.james at gmail.com (James Cervantes)
Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 16:56:26 -0700
Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Poetic Justice
In-Reply-To: <8CB05C364BEFF8B-D10-84C@webmail-db02.sysops.aol.com>
References: <bd1.415df3f4.3634c6b2@aol.com> <490378FD.4040108@opus40.org>
	<9D2B7D2E-397C-452C-9151-9F2DFCC2D2BF@earthlink.net>
	<4903A750.4060707@opus40.org>
	<19982205FA1943C1B54D0292D9BDFF39@LindaSue>
	<D0724854-9018-4EFB-83E6-7DEA7C9798D3@earthlink.net>
	<CEE7DDF3-CA3B-41EA-A67F-7F8698C070C5@ripon.edu>
	<8CB05C364BEFF8B-D10-84C@webmail-db02.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <648208b60810261656o3909a6c9x32052763d2c82e7d@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Oct 26, 2008 at 1:48 PM,  <almaginnes at aol.com> wrote:
> You darn liberals and your dreary insistence on facts. If a plumber's helper
> can earn $250, 000 a year why not a waiter?

But would you like your waiter walking around showing his butt cleavage?


- Jim

>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: David Graham <grahamd at ripon.edu>
> Sent: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 11:51 am
> Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Poetic Justice
>
> I confess I was unaware that a lot of waiters earn more than a quarter
> million bucks per year.  Good to have my misunderstanding corrected. . . .
>
>
> ========================================
> David Graham
> grahamd at ripon.edu
> Home Page:
> http://web.mac.com/drjazz
> Poetry Library:
> http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html
> ==========================================
>
>
>
> On Oct 26, 2008, at 10:47 AM, Halvard Johnson wrote:
>
> Ooh, that'll teach him--damned liberal waiters.
> Hal
> McCain / Palin -- Just say thanks but no thanks.
> They're a bridge to nowhere.
> Halvard Johnson
> ================
> halvard at earthlink.net
> halvard at gmail.com
> http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html
> http://entropyandme.blogspot.com
> http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com
> http://www.hamiltonstone.org
> http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html
>
>
> On Oct 26, 2008, at 5:52 AM, Linda Sue Grimes wrote:
>
> Yesterday on my way to lunch at Doe's,  I passed one of the homeless guys in
> that area, with a sign that read "Vote Obama, I need the money."
>
> Once inside Doe's my waiter had on a "Obama 08" tee shirt.
>
> When the bill came, I decided not to tip the waiter and explained to him
> while he had given me exceptional service, that his tee shirt made me feel
> he obviously believes in Senator Obama's plan to redistribute the wealth.  I
> told him I was going to redistribute his tip to someone that I deemed more
> in need--the homeless guy outside.
>
> He stood there in disbelief and angrily stormed away.
>
> I went outside, gave the homeless guy $3 and told him to thank the waiter
> inside, as I had decided he could use the money more. The homeless guy
> looked at me in disbelief but seemed grateful.
>
> As I got in my truck, I realized this rather unscientific redistribution
> experiment had left the homeless guy quite happy for the money he did not
> earn, but the waiter was pretty angry that I gave away the money he did
> earn.
> Well, I guess this redistribution of wealth is going to take a while to
> catch on with those doing the work....
> _______________________________________________
>
> =
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
> ________________________________
> McCain or Obama? Stay updated on coverage of the Presidential race while you
> browse - Download Now!
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
>


From jbalizsprince at googlemail.com  Sun Oct 26 20:08:07 2008
From: jbalizsprince at googlemail.com (Judy Prince)
Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 20:08:07 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Poetic Justice
In-Reply-To: <648208b60810261656o3909a6c9x32052763d2c82e7d@mail.gmail.com>
References: <bd1.415df3f4.3634c6b2@aol.com> <490378FD.4040108@opus40.org>
	<9D2B7D2E-397C-452C-9151-9F2DFCC2D2BF@earthlink.net>
	<4903A750.4060707@opus40.org>
	<19982205FA1943C1B54D0292D9BDFF39@LindaSue>
	<D0724854-9018-4EFB-83E6-7DEA7C9798D3@earthlink.net>
	<CEE7DDF3-CA3B-41EA-A67F-7F8698C070C5@ripon.edu>
	<8CB05C364BEFF8B-D10-84C@webmail-db02.sysops.aol.com>
	<648208b60810261656o3909a6c9x32052763d2c82e7d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7db1d01b0810261708s72a74d91s6db2b00175daabdf@mail.gmail.com>

or hers?  Different answer, right?
Judy

2008/10/26 James Cervantes <cervantes.james at gmail.com>

> On Sun, Oct 26, 2008 at 1:48 PM,  <almaginnes at aol.com> wrote:
> > You darn liberals and your dreary insistence on facts. If a plumber's
> helper
> > can earn $250, 000 a year why not a waiter?
>
> But would you like your waiter walking around showing his butt cleavage?
>
>
> - Jim
>
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: David Graham <grahamd at ripon.edu>
> > Sent: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 11:51 am
> > Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Poetic Justice
> >
> > I confess I was unaware that a lot of waiters earn more than a quarter
> > million bucks per year.  Good to have my misunderstanding corrected. . .
> .
> >
> >
> > ========================================
> > David Graham
> > grahamd at ripon.edu
> > Home Page:
> > http://web.mac.com/drjazz
> > Poetry Library:
> > http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html
> > ==========================================
> >
> >
> >
> > On Oct 26, 2008, at 10:47 AM, Halvard Johnson wrote:
> >
> > Ooh, that'll teach him--damned liberal waiters.
> > Hal
> > McCain / Palin -- Just say thanks but no thanks.
> > They're a bridge to nowhere.
> > Halvard Johnson
> > ================
> > halvard at earthlink.net
> > halvard at gmail.com
> > http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html
> > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com
> > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com
> > http://www.hamiltonstone.org
> > http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html
> >
> >
> > On Oct 26, 2008, at 5:52 AM, Linda Sue Grimes wrote:
> >
> > Yesterday on my way to lunch at Doe's,  I passed one of the homeless guys
> in
> > that area, with a sign that read "Vote Obama, I need the money."
> >
> > Once inside Doe's my waiter had on a "Obama 08" tee shirt.
> >
> > When the bill came, I decided not to tip the waiter and explained to him
> > while he had given me exceptional service, that his tee shirt made me
> feel
> > he obviously believes in Senator Obama's plan to redistribute the wealth.
>  I
> > told him I was going to redistribute his tip to someone that I deemed
> more
> > in need--the homeless guy outside.
> >
> > He stood there in disbelief and angrily stormed away.
> >
> > I went outside, gave the homeless guy $3 and told him to thank the waiter
> > inside, as I had decided he could use the money more. The homeless guy
> > looked at me in disbelief but seemed grateful.
> >
> > As I got in my truck, I realized this rather unscientific redistribution
> > experiment had left the homeless guy quite happy for the money he did not
> > earn, but the waiter was pretty angry that I gave away the money he did
> > earn.
> > Well, I guess this redistribution of wealth is going to take a while to
> > catch on with those doing the work....
> > _______________________________________________
> >
> > =
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > New-Poetry mailing list
> > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
> >
> > ________________________________
> > McCain or Obama? Stay updated on coverage of the Presidential race while
> you
> > browse - Download Now!
> > _______________________________________________
> > New-Poetry mailing list
> > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
> >
> >
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
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From Opus40-01 at opus40.org  Sun Oct 26 20:54:52 2008
From: Opus40-01 at opus40.org (TheOldMole)
Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 20:54:52 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Poetic Justice
In-Reply-To: <7db1d01b0810261708s72a74d91s6db2b00175daabdf@mail.gmail.com>
References: <bd1.415df3f4.3634c6b2@aol.com>
	<490378FD.4040108@opus40.org>	<9D2B7D2E-397C-452C-9151-9F2DFCC2D2BF@earthlink.net>	<4903A750.4060707@opus40.org>	<19982205FA1943C1B54D0292D9BDFF39@LindaSue>	<D0724854-9018-4EFB-83E6-7DEA7C9798D3@earthlink.net>	<CEE7DDF3-CA3B-41EA-A67F-7F8698C070C5@ripon.edu>	<8CB05C364BEFF8B-D10-84C@webmail-db02.sysops.aol.com>	<648208b60810261656o3909a6c9x32052763d2c82e7d@mail.gmail.com>
	<7db1d01b0810261708s72a74d91s6db2b00175daabdf@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4905115C.60400@opus40.org>

So sue me.

Judy Prince wrote:
> or hers?  Different answer, right?
>
> Judy
>
> 2008/10/26 James Cervantes <cervantes.james at gmail.com 
> <mailto:cervantes.james at gmail.com>>
>
>     On Sun, Oct 26, 2008 at 1:48 PM,  <almaginnes at aol.com
>     <mailto:almaginnes at aol.com>> wrote:
>     > You darn liberals and your dreary insistence on facts. If a
>     plumber's helper
>     > can earn $250, 000 a year why not a waiter?
>
>     But would you like your waiter walking around showing his butt
>     cleavage?
>
>
>     - Jim
>
>     >
>     >
>     > -----Original Message-----
>     > From: David Graham <grahamd at ripon.edu <mailto:grahamd at ripon.edu>>
>     > Sent: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 11:51 am
>     > Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Poetic Justice
>     >
>     > I confess I was unaware that a lot of waiters earn more than a
>     quarter
>     > million bucks per year.  Good to have my misunderstanding
>     corrected. . . .
>     >
>     >
>     > ========================================
>     > David Graham
>     > grahamd at ripon.edu <mailto:grahamd at ripon.edu>
>     > Home Page:
>     > http://web.mac.com/drjazz
>     > Poetry Library:
>     > http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html
>     > ==========================================
>     >
>     >
>     >
>     > On Oct 26, 2008, at 10:47 AM, Halvard Johnson wrote:
>     >
>     > Ooh, that'll teach him--damned liberal waiters.
>     > Hal
>     > McCain / Palin -- Just say thanks but no thanks.
>     > They're a bridge to nowhere.
>     > Halvard Johnson
>     > ================
>     > halvard at earthlink.net <mailto:halvard at earthlink.net>
>     > halvard at gmail.com <mailto:halvard at gmail.com>
>     > http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html
>     <http://home.earthlink.net/%7Ehalvard/index.html>
>     > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com
>     > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com
>     > http://www.hamiltonstone.org
>     > http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html
>     <http://home.earthlink.net/%7Ehalvard/vidalocabooks.html>
>     >
>     >
>     > On Oct 26, 2008, at 5:52 AM, Linda Sue Grimes wrote:
>     >
>     > Yesterday on my way to lunch at Doe's,  I passed one of the
>     homeless guys in
>     > that area, with a sign that read "Vote Obama, I need the money."
>     >
>     > Once inside Doe's my waiter had on a "Obama 08" tee shirt.
>     >
>     > When the bill came, I decided not to tip the waiter and
>     explained to him
>     > while he had given me exceptional service, that his tee shirt
>     made me feel
>     > he obviously believes in Senator Obama's plan to redistribute
>     the wealth.  I
>     > told him I was going to redistribute his tip to someone that I
>     deemed more
>     > in need--the homeless guy outside.
>     >
>     > He stood there in disbelief and angrily stormed away.
>     >
>     > I went outside, gave the homeless guy $3 and told him to thank
>     the waiter
>     > inside, as I had decided he could use the money more. The
>     homeless guy
>     > looked at me in disbelief but seemed grateful.
>     >
>     > As I got in my truck, I realized this rather unscientific
>     redistribution
>     > experiment had left the homeless guy quite happy for the money
>     he did not
>     > earn, but the waiter was pretty angry that I gave away the money
>     he did
>     > earn.
>     > Well, I guess this redistribution of wealth is going to take a
>     while to
>     > catch on with those doing the work....
>     > _______________________________________________
>     >
>     > =
>     >
>     > _______________________________________________
>     > New-Poetry mailing list
>     > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu <mailto:New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
>     > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>     >
>     > ________________________________
>     > McCain or Obama? Stay updated on coverage of the Presidential
>     race while you
>     > browse - Download Now!
>     > _______________________________________________
>     > New-Poetry mailing list
>     > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu <mailto:New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
>     > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>     >
>     >
>     _______________________________________________
>     New-Poetry mailing list
>     New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu <mailto:New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
>     http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>   

-- 
Tad Richards
http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/
http://opusforty.blogspot.com/

Don't forget to order your copy of FILM NOIR!
http://stores.lulu.com/store.php?fAcctID=2712239



From Opus40-01 at opus40.org  Sun Oct 26 21:22:24 2008
From: Opus40-01 at opus40.org (TheOldMole)
Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 21:22:24 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetic Justice
In-Reply-To: <8066F13C-E4A2-44B2-AF6D-4475A1CF1A6C@earthlink.net>
References: <bd1.415df3f4.3634c6b2@aol.com><490378FD.4040108@opus40.org><9D2B7D2E-397C-452C-9151-9F2DFCC2D2BF@earthlink.net><4903A750.4060707@opus40.org><19982205FA1943C1B54D0292D9BDFF39@LindaSue>	<4904BCAB.1060704@nut-n-but.net><8CB05B1CBCF813E-C64-1680@webmail-md04.sysops.aol.com>	<4904C108.5070304@opus40.org>	<8CB05B6EF3E2CB9-C64-1788@webmail-md04.sysops.aol.com>	<4904C694.8020404@opus40.org>
	<8066F13C-E4A2-44B2-AF6D-4475A1CF1A6C@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <490517D0.8010901@opus40.org>

Oh, wait...I just remembered another poet/screenwriter. And this is 
ridiculous, but I really did jusr remember...

Me!

The Cheerleaders -- http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0068364/

Cherry Hill High -- http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0074306/

The Happy Hooker Goes to Washington -- http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0076125/


Halvard Johnson wrote:
> William Faulkner, of course, was credited with a number of screenplays
> (incl. The Big Sleep)--not to mention quite a few novels and collections
> of poetry.
>
> Harold Pinter wrote a couple dozen screenplays, along with his poetry
> and plays.
>
> Hal
>
> McCain / Palin -- Just say thanks but no thanks.
> They're a bridge to nowhere.
>
> Halvard Johnson
> ================
> halvard at earthlink.net
> halvard at gmail.com
> http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html
> http://entropyandme.blogspot.com
> http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com
> http://www.hamiltonstone.org
> http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html
>
>
>
> On Oct 26, 2008, at 1:35 PM, TheOldMole wrote:
>
>> Movies written by poets:
>>
>> Les Enfants du Paradis, screenplay by Jacques Prevert
>>
>> Joseph Moncure March -- The Set-Up and The Wild Party were based on 
>> his poems, but he didn't write the screenplays. However, he did spend 
>> a whole bunch of time in Hollywood writing screenplays, including 
>> such classics as Jungle Love, Let 'em Have It, and Woman Doctor.
>>
>> He did also write a version of Madame Butterfly that starred Sylvia 
>> Sidney and Cary Grant, and adapted Dreiser's Jennie Gerhardt for 
>> Sidney and Mary Astor.
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>

-- 
Tad Richards
http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/
http://opusforty.blogspot.com/

Don't forget to order your copy of FILM NOIR!
http://stores.lulu.com/store.php?fAcctID=2712239



From jbalizsprince at googlemail.com  Sun Oct 26 21:26:04 2008
From: jbalizsprince at googlemail.com (Judy Prince)
Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 21:26:04 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Poetic Justice
In-Reply-To: <4905115C.60400@opus40.org>
References: <bd1.415df3f4.3634c6b2@aol.com>
	<9D2B7D2E-397C-452C-9151-9F2DFCC2D2BF@earthlink.net>
	<4903A750.4060707@opus40.org>
	<19982205FA1943C1B54D0292D9BDFF39@LindaSue>
	<D0724854-9018-4EFB-83E6-7DEA7C9798D3@earthlink.net>
	<CEE7DDF3-CA3B-41EA-A67F-7F8698C070C5@ripon.edu>
	<8CB05C364BEFF8B-D10-84C@webmail-db02.sysops.aol.com>
	<648208b60810261656o3909a6c9x32052763d2c82e7d@mail.gmail.com>
	<7db1d01b0810261708s72a74d91s6db2b00175daabdf@mail.gmail.com>
	<4905115C.60400@opus40.org>
Message-ID: <7db1d01b0810261826p1652cf15r717ab98e66033d21@mail.gmail.com>

Oley Moley, you know we USAmericans are unlitigious folk.

2008/10/26 TheOldMole <Opus40-01 at opus40.org>

> So sue me.
>
> Judy Prince wrote:
>
>> or hers?  Different answer, right?
>>
>> Judy
>>
>> 2008/10/26 James Cervantes <cervantes.james at gmail.com <mailto:
>> cervantes.james at gmail.com>>
>>
>>    On Sun, Oct 26, 2008 at 1:48 PM,  <almaginnes at aol.com
>>    <mailto:almaginnes at aol.com>> wrote:
>>    > You darn liberals and your dreary insistence on facts. If a
>>    plumber's helper
>>    > can earn $250, 000 a year why not a waiter?
>>
>>    But would you like your waiter walking around showing his butt
>>    cleavage?
>>
>>
>>    - Jim
>>
>>    >
>>    >
>>    > -----Original Message-----
>>    > From: David Graham <grahamd at ripon.edu <mailto:grahamd at ripon.edu>>
>>    > Sent: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 11:51 am
>>    > Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Poetic Justice
>>    >
>>    > I confess I was unaware that a lot of waiters earn more than a
>>    quarter
>>    > million bucks per year.  Good to have my misunderstanding
>>    corrected. . . .
>>    >
>>    >
>>    > ========================================
>>    > David Graham
>>    > grahamd at ripon.edu <mailto:grahamd at ripon.edu>
>>    > Home Page:
>>    > http://web.mac.com/drjazz
>>    > Poetry Library:
>>    > http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html
>>    > ==========================================
>>    >
>>    >
>>    >
>>    > On Oct 26, 2008, at 10:47 AM, Halvard Johnson wrote:
>>    >
>>    > Ooh, that'll teach him--damned liberal waiters.
>>    > Hal
>>    > McCain / Palin -- Just say thanks but no thanks.
>>    > They're a bridge to nowhere.
>>    > Halvard Johnson
>>    > ================
>>    > halvard at earthlink.net <mailto:halvard at earthlink.net>
>>    > halvard at gmail.com <mailto:halvard at gmail.com>
>>    > http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html
>>    <http://home.earthlink.net/%7Ehalvard/index.html>
>>    > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com
>>    > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com
>>    > http://www.hamiltonstone.org
>>    > http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html
>>    <http://home.earthlink.net/%7Ehalvard/vidalocabooks.html>
>>
>>    >
>>    >
>>    > On Oct 26, 2008, at 5:52 AM, Linda Sue Grimes wrote:
>>    >
>>    > Yesterday on my way to lunch at Doe's,  I passed one of the
>>    homeless guys in
>>    > that area, with a sign that read "Vote Obama, I need the money."
>>    >
>>    > Once inside Doe's my waiter had on a "Obama 08" tee shirt.
>>    >
>>    > When the bill came, I decided not to tip the waiter and
>>    explained to him
>>    > while he had given me exceptional service, that his tee shirt
>>    made me feel
>>    > he obviously believes in Senator Obama's plan to redistribute
>>    the wealth.  I
>>    > told him I was going to redistribute his tip to someone that I
>>    deemed more
>>    > in need--the homeless guy outside.
>>    >
>>    > He stood there in disbelief and angrily stormed away.
>>    >
>>    > I went outside, gave the homeless guy $3 and told him to thank
>>    the waiter
>>    > inside, as I had decided he could use the money more. The
>>    homeless guy
>>    > looked at me in disbelief but seemed grateful.
>>    >
>>    > As I got in my truck, I realized this rather unscientific
>>    redistribution
>>    > experiment had left the homeless guy quite happy for the money
>>    he did not
>>    > earn, but the waiter was pretty angry that I gave away the money
>>    he did
>>    > earn.
>>    > Well, I guess this redistribution of wealth is going to take a
>>    while to
>>    > catch on with those doing the work....
>>    > _______________________________________________
>>    >
>>    > =
>>    >
>>    > _______________________________________________
>>    > New-Poetry mailing list
>>    > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu <mailto:New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
>>    > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>>    >
>>    > ________________________________
>>    > McCain or Obama? Stay updated on coverage of the Presidential
>>    race while you
>>    > browse - Download Now!
>>    > _______________________________________________
>>    > New-Poetry mailing list
>>    > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu <mailto:New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
>>    > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>>    >
>>    >
>>    _______________________________________________
>>    New-Poetry mailing list
>>    New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu <mailto:New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
>>    http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> New-Poetry mailing list
>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>>
>>
>
> --
> Tad Richards
> http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/
> http://opusforty.blogspot.com/
>
> Don't forget to order your copy of FILM NOIR!
> http://stores.lulu.com/store.php?fAcctID=2712239
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
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From rog3r.day at gmail.com  Mon Oct 27 06:02:46 2008
From: rog3r.day at gmail.com (Roger Day)
Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2008 10:02:46 +0000
Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetic Justice
In-Reply-To: <19982205FA1943C1B54D0292D9BDFF39@LindaSue>
References: <bd1.415df3f4.3634c6b2@aol.com> <490378FD.4040108@opus40.org>
	<9D2B7D2E-397C-452C-9151-9F2DFCC2D2BF@earthlink.net>
	<4903A750.4060707@opus40.org>
	<19982205FA1943C1B54D0292D9BDFF39@LindaSue>
Message-ID: <fde503480810270302i519d5d92p8560ffa46396fe82@mail.gmail.com>

Well, you may want to apply this "redistribution of wealth" to the
current credit crunch wherein, a long time ago, the middle class, in
return for a reduction of wealth in real terms, get suckered into
believing that wealth is made of moon-beams, easy credit, rising house
prices. The inevitable happens when the moon-beams appear to be ...
moon-beams and no one is watching the cookie-jar which is looking
distinctly empty.

Taxing the rich is a simpler alternative to dumping the world economy
in the toilet (again) if we let them return to the good old days of
"light regulatory touch" and free-market madness. After all, we gave
them all money to save their sorry asses. The good side is that both
the UK and the US nationalised their banking systems. I didn't know
that Bush was such a socialist.

Then again, you could pay waiters a proper living wage so they
wouldn't have to depend on tips.

Roger

On 10/26/08, Linda Sue Grimes <suelin6787 at charter.net> wrote:
>
>
>
>
> Yesterday on my way to lunch at Doe's,  I passed one of the homeless guys in
> that area, with a sign that read "Vote Obama, I need the money."
>
>
>
> Once inside Doe's my waiter had on a "Obama 08" tee shirt.
>
> When the bill came, I decided not to tip the waiter and explained to him
> while he had given me exceptional service, that his tee shirt made me feel
> he obviously believes in Senator Obama's plan to redistribute the wealth.  I
> told him I was going to redistribute his tip to someone that I deemed more
> in need--the homeless guy outside.
>
> He stood there in disbelief and angrily stormed away.
>
> I went outside, gave the homeless guy $3 and told him to thank the waiter
> inside, as I had decided he could use the money more. The homeless guy
> looked at me in disbelief but seemed grateful.
>
> As I got in my truck, I realized this rather unscientific redistribution
> experiment had left the homeless guy quite happy for the money he did not
> earn, but the waiter was pretty angry that I gave away the money he did
> earn.
> Well, I guess this redistribution of wealth is going to take a while to
> catch on with those doing the work....
> _______________________________________________
>  New-Poetry mailing list
>  New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>  http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
>


-- 
My Stuff: http://www.badstep.net/
"I began to warm and chill
to objects and their fields"
Nick Cave & The Bad Seeds


From anny.ballardini at gmail.com  Mon Oct 27 07:23:09 2008
From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2008 12:23:09 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] dictionaries -Italian
Message-ID: <4b65c2d70810270423o73f5ccc1xc289099ba56670a6@mail.gmail.com>

And if you are in the Italian language, I just found this:
http://www.homolaicus.com/linguaggi/sinonimi/index.htm

-- 
Anny Ballardini
http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html
I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing
star!
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From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net  Mon Oct 27 17:24:04 2008
From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman)
Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2008 16:24:04 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetic Justice
In-Reply-To: <fde503480810270302i519d5d92p8560ffa46396fe82@mail.gmail.com>
References: <bd1.415df3f4.3634c6b2@aol.com>
	<490378FD.4040108@opus40.org><9D2B7D2E-397C-452C-9151-9F2DFCC2D2BF@earthlink.net><4903A750.4060707@opus40.org><19982205FA1943C
	1B54D0292D9BDFF39@LindaSue>
	<fde503480810270302i519d5d92p8560ffa46396fe82@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <49063174.2040900@nut-n-but.net>


> Then again, you could pay waiters a proper living wage so they
> wouldn't have to depend on tips.
>
> Roger
>   
Ah, but then you risk the slippery slope into paying a proper living 
wage to . . . poets.  (To get us on-topic.)

--Bob G.



From suelin6787 at charter.net  Mon Oct 27 17:10:39 2008
From: suelin6787 at charter.net (Linda Sue Grimes)
Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2008 16:10:39 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetic Justice
References: <bd1.415df3f4.3634c6b2@aol.com><490378FD.4040108@opus40.org><9D2B7D2E-397C-452C-9151-9F2DFCC2D2BF@earthlink.net><4903A750.4060707@opus40.org><19982205FA1943C1B54D0292D9BDFF39@LindaSue><fde503480810270302i519d5d92p8560ffa46396fe82@mail.gmail.com>
	<49063174.2040900@nut-n-but.net>
Message-ID: <C2E00A7839CA4F8782E2B4450944C157@LindaSue>


  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Bob Grumman 
  To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &amp;Views 
  Sent: Monday, October 27, 2008 4:24 PM
  Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Poetic Justice



  > Then again, you could pay waiters a proper living wage so they
  > wouldn't have to depend on tips.
  >
  > Roger
  >   
  Ah, but then you risk the slippery slope into paying a proper living 
  wage to . . . poets.  (To get us on-topic.)

  --Bob G.

  _______________________________________________
  New-Poetry mailing list
  New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
  http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
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From anny.ballardini at gmail.com  Mon Oct 27 17:11:17 2008
From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2008 22:11:17 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetic Justice
In-Reply-To: <49063174.2040900@nut-n-but.net>
References: <bd1.415df3f4.3634c6b2@aol.com> <490378FD.4040108@opus40.org>
	<9D2B7D2E-397C-452C-9151-9F2DFCC2D2BF@earthlink.net>
	<4903A750.4060707@opus40.org>
	<fde503480810270302i519d5d92p8560ffa46396fe82@mail.gmail.com>
	<49063174.2040900@nut-n-but.net>
Message-ID: <4b65c2d70810271411x665bfe97v2ab99170ef783a38@mail.gmail.com>

That's a slippery slope...
If we were at the time of the Ceasars, for example, and Grumman was Emperor
Bob, we could improvise all sorts of songs and he'd give us to eat and
snore, ...

On Mon, Oct 27, 2008 at 10:24 PM, Bob Grumman <bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net>wrote:

>
>  Then again, you could pay waiters a proper living wage so they
>> wouldn't have to depend on tips.
>>
>> Roger
>>
>>
> Ah, but then you risk the slippery slope into paying a proper living wage
> to . . . poets.  (To get us on-topic.)
>
> --Bob G.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>



-- 
Anny Ballardini
http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html
I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing
star!
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From suelin6787 at charter.net  Mon Oct 27 17:15:29 2008
From: suelin6787 at charter.net (Linda Sue Grimes)
Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2008 16:15:29 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] the dash don't be silent
References: <bd1.415df3f4.3634c6b2@aol.com><490378FD.4040108@opus40.org><9D2B7D2E-397C-452C-9151-9F2DFCC2D2BF@earthlink.net><4903A750.4060707@opus40.org><19982205FA1943C1B54D0292D9BDFF39@LindaSue><fde503480810270302i519d5d92p8560ffa46396fe82@mail.gmail.com>
	<49063174.2040900@nut-n-but.net>
Message-ID: <77E061FDB2414D2EAD43277B7FF8C566@LindaSue>

Snopes is still working on this one:  about a girl named Le-a, pronounced Ledasha.  Rather languagish...  http://www.snopes.com/racial/language/le-a.asp

respectfully,
lsg
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From jeff.newberry at gmail.com  Mon Oct 27 18:12:30 2008
From: jeff.newberry at gmail.com (Jeff Newberry)
Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2008 18:12:30 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] the dash don't be silent
In-Reply-To: <77E061FDB2414D2EAD43277B7FF8C566@LindaSue>
References: <bd1.415df3f4.3634c6b2@aol.com> <490378FD.4040108@opus40.org>
	<9D2B7D2E-397C-452C-9151-9F2DFCC2D2BF@earthlink.net>
	<4903A750.4060707@opus40.org>
	<19982205FA1943C1B54D0292D9BDFF39@LindaSue>
	<fde503480810270302i519d5d92p8560ffa46396fe82@mail.gmail.com>
	<49063174.2040900@nut-n-but.net>
	<77E061FDB2414D2EAD43277B7FF8C566@LindaSue>
Message-ID: <731bb17a0810271512k5da70aadr370472524a933817@mail.gmail.com>

"Languagish?"

I was thinking "racist."

Of course, what do I know, liberal that I am?

Jeff Newberry

On Mon, Oct 27, 2008 at 5:15 PM, Linda Sue Grimes <suelin6787 at charter.net>wrote:

>  Snopes is still working on this one:  about a girl named Le-a, pronounced
> Ledasha.  Rather languagish...
> http://www.snopes.com/racial/language/le-a.asp
>
> respectfully,
> lsg
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
>


-- 
Blog:  http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com
Obama Myths:  http://www.matthew25.org/paf/index.htm
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From jforjames at aol.com  Mon Oct 27 19:19:48 2008
From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2008 19:19:48 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] the dash don't be silent
In-Reply-To: <731bb17a0810271512k5da70aadr370472524a933817@mail.gmail.com>
References: <bd1.415df3f4.3634c6b2@aol.com>
	<490378FD.4040108@opus40.org><9D2B7D2E-397C-452C-9151-9F2DFCC2D2BF@earthlink.net><4903A750.4060707@opus40.org><19982205FA1943C1B54D0292D9BDFF39@LindaSue><fde503480810270302i519d5d92p8560ffa46396fe82@mail.gmail.com><49063174.2040900@nut-n-but.net><77E061FDB2414D2EAD43277B7FF8C566@LindaSue>
	<731bb17a0810271512k5da70aadr370472524a933817@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8CB06A1A39C616C-DDC-918@FWM-D07.sysops.aol.com>


"A shprakh iz a diyalekt mit an armey un a flot"


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From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net  Mon Oct 27 20:56:51 2008
From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman)
Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2008 19:56:51 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetic Justice
In-Reply-To: <4b65c2d70810271411x665bfe97v2ab99170ef783a38@mail.gmail.com>
References: <bd1.415df3f4.3634c6b2@aol.com>
	<490378FD.4040108@opus40.org><9D2B7D2E-397C-452C-9151-9F2DFCC2D2BF@earthlink.net><4903A750.4060707@opus40.org><fde503480810270
	302i519d5d92p8560ffa46396fe82@mail.gmail.com><49063174.2040900@nut-n-but.net>
	<4b65c2d70810271411x665bfe97v2ab99170ef783a38@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <49066353.7010000@nut-n-but.net>

Anny Ballardini wrote:
> That's a slippery slope...
> If we were at the time of the Ceasars, for example, and Grumman was 
> Emperor Bob, we could improvise all sorts of songs and he'd give us to 
> eat and snore, ...
Songs???  Visual poems only!

the Emp



From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net  Mon Oct 27 21:04:17 2008
From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman)
Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2008 20:04:17 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] the dash don't be silent
In-Reply-To: <77E061FDB2414D2EAD43277B7FF8C566@LindaSue>
References: <bd1.415df3f4.3634c6b2@aol.com><490378FD.4040108@opus40.org><9D2B7D2E-397C-452C-9151-9F2DFCC2D2BF@earthlink.net><4903
	A750.4060707@opus40.org><19982205FA1943C1B54D0292D9BDFF39@LindaSue><fde503480810270302i519d5d92p8560ffa46396fe82@mail.gmail.com
	><49063174.2040900@nut-n-but.net>
	<77E061FDB2414D2EAD43277B7FF8C566@LindaSue>
Message-ID: <49066511.1080003@nut-n-but.net>

Linda Sue Grimes wrote:
> Snopes is still working on this one:  about a girl named Le-a, 
> pronounced Ledasha.  Rather languagish...  
> http://www.snopes.com/racial/language/le-a.asp
>  
Haw.  My colleague Will Napoli is the Supreme Taxonomist of what he 
calls "exploetry," by which he means (I think) "gadget poetry."  He 
would call the above (I believe) a "symbell."  Another example, from his 
*The Protext Primer*, is "c&le"--for "cANDle."  In his version, the 
lower how in the ampersand is green, the upper hole red, to suggest 
candle and flame.

--Bob G.
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From jforjames at aol.com  Mon Oct 27 20:31:12 2008
From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2008 20:31:12 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] Mark Roper's Hummingbird
Message-ID: <8CB06AB9D910135-C78-1C2D@WEBMAIL-MZ18.sysops.aol.com>

http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/booksblog/2008/oct/27/poem-of-the-week-hummingbird-mark-roper

Poise is the essence of this week's poem, Mark Roper's Hummingbird. It shows in its technique - and perhaps it is the poem's fundamental subject. Poise, a lovely word, is related to the Old French pois, meaning weight, and originally from the Latin, pendere. The bird is dizzyingly poised between rapid movement and stillness, and the poet weighs his words to create a language light and suggestive enough to encapsulate that quality of suspension, while tough enough to convey a miniature story.
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From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net  Mon Oct 27 21:47:25 2008
From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman)
Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2008 20:47:25 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] the dash don't be silent
In-Reply-To: <49066511.1080003@nut-n-but.net>
References: <bd1.415df3f4.3634c6b2@aol.com><490378FD.4040108@opus40.org><9D2B7D2E-397C-452C-9151-9F2DFCC2D2BF@earthlink.net><4903
	A750.4060707@opus40.org><19982205FA1943C1B54D0292D9BDFF39@LindaSue><fde503480810270302i519d5d92p8560ffa46396fe82@mail.gmail.com
	><49063174.2040900@nut-n-but.net><77E061FDB2414D2EAD43277B7FF8C566@LindaSue>
	<49066511.1080003@nut-n-but.net>
Message-ID: <49066F2D.1030609@nut-n-but.net>


> Haw.  My colleague Will Napoli is the Supreme Taxonomist of what he 
> calls "exploetry," by which he means (I think) "gadget poetry."  He 
> would call the above (I believe) a "symbell."  Another example, from 
> his *The Protext Primer*, is "c&le"--for "cANDle."  In his version, 
> the lower HOLE in the ampersand is green, the upper hole red, to 
> suggest candle and flame.
>
> --Bob G.




From rog3r.day at gmail.com  Tue Oct 28 07:15:39 2008
From: rog3r.day at gmail.com (Roger Day)
Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 11:15:39 +0000
Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetic Justice
In-Reply-To: <49063174.2040900@nut-n-but.net>
References: <bd1.415df3f4.3634c6b2@aol.com> <490378FD.4040108@opus40.org>
	<9D2B7D2E-397C-452C-9151-9F2DFCC2D2BF@earthlink.net>
	<4903A750.4060707@opus40.org>
	<fde503480810270302i519d5d92p8560ffa46396fe82@mail.gmail.com>
	<49063174.2040900@nut-n-but.net>
Message-ID: <fde503480810280415m5ca06c8ej36e102fc0717f6d3@mail.gmail.com>

Why should we forfeit our role of starving prophets of the age? As a
holier-than-position it's hard to beat.

Value is often a highly debatable point - football players v nurses to
quote a common debating point - and the "invisible hand" of an
"unregulated" free-market has it's usual dread effect on things,
mostly because people let it. Markets are never completely "free"
otherwise we'd still be slave-traders (I don't include wage-slaves in
this definition) so there are moral and legal boundaries to any
market. I wish poetry (and by extension poets) were valued higher than
they are but ...

Poets (in common with a lot of artifact producers) rarely get paid by
the hour for poeting. They usually get paid on royalties. I'd boost
for a higher cut of the royalties but how do we get paid in the age of
the internet? Copying  on the net is such a lightweight, integral
operation that enforcing artificial scarcity (the ordinary way of
ensuring value) is a hard thing to do. Value by reputation is also
hard to do in this hyperactive mechanically mimetic environment. A
hard conunmdrum to solve.

Roger

On 10/27/08, Bob Grumman <bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net> wrote:
>
>
> > Then again, you could pay waiters a proper living wage so they
> > wouldn't have to depend on tips.
> >
> > Roger
> >
> >
>  Ah, but then you risk the slippery slope into paying a proper living wage
> to . . . poets.  (To get us on-topic.)
>
>  --Bob G.
>
>
>  _______________________________________________
>  New-Poetry mailing list
>  New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>  http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>


-- 
My Stuff: http://www.badstep.net/
"I began to warm and chill
to objects and their fields"
Nick Cave & The Bad Seeds


From suelin6787 at charter.net  Tue Oct 28 07:20:35 2008
From: suelin6787 at charter.net (Linda Sue Grimes)
Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 06:20:35 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] the dash don't be silent
References: <bd1.415df3f4.3634c6b2@aol.com><490378FD.4040108@opus40.org><9D2B7D2E-397C-452C-9151-9F2DFCC2D2BF@earthlink.net><4903
	A750.4060707@opus40.org><19982205FA1943C1B54D0292D9BDFF39@LindaSue><fde503480810270302i519d5d92p8560ffa46396fe82@mail.gmail.com
	><49063174.2040900@nut-n-but.net>
	<77E061FDB2414D2EAD43277B7FF8C566@LindaSue>
	<49066511.1080003@nut-n-but.net>
Message-ID: <53A6FB7FB0294D10AE9CCA59E4606AE4@LindaSue>

Your Willie Naps is quite an innovative, renaissance man.  Some fascinating language manipulations.  I always think of "The Concrete Poetry Movement" when I see this kind of thing.  If I had continued to concentrate more on the creative writing of poetry, I think I would have gotten more into this kind of poetic art.  

Thank you for your kind and relevant response, Bob.

respectfully,
lsg
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Bob Grumman 
  To: Linda Sue Grimes ; NewPoetry: ContemporaryPoetry News &amp; Views 
  Sent: Monday, October 27, 2008 8:04 PM
  Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] the dash don't be silent


  Linda Sue Grimes wrote: 
    Snopes is still working on this one:  about a girl named Le-a, pronounced Ledasha.  Rather languagish...  http://www.snopes.com/racial/language/le-a.asp

  Haw.  My colleague Will Napoli is the Supreme Taxonomist of what he calls "exploetry," by which he means (I think) "gadget poetry."  He would call the above (I believe) a "symbell."  Another example, from his *The Protext Primer*, is "c&le"--for "cANDle."  In his version, the lower how in the ampersand is green, the upper hole red, to suggest candle and flame.

  --Bob G.
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From suelin6787 at charter.net  Tue Oct 28 09:10:58 2008
From: suelin6787 at charter.net (Linda Sue Grimes)
Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 08:10:58 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] the dash don't be silent
References: <bd1.415df3f4.3634c6b2@aol.com><490378FD.4040108@opus40.org><9D2B7D2E-397C-452C-9151-9F2DFCC2D2BF@earthlink.net><4903A750.4060707@opus40.org><19982205FA1943C1B54D0292D9BDFF39@LindaSue><fde503480810270302i519d5d92p8560ffa46396fe82@mail.gmail.com><49063174.2040900@nut-n-but.net><77E061FDB2414D2EAD43277B7FF8C566@LindaSue><731bb17a0810271512k5da70aadr370472524a933817@mail.gmail.com>
	<8CB06A1A39C616C-DDC-918@FWM-D07.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <B58A143A2A8949DFA791E2A25C1AE37D@LindaSue>

Or as we say in French, "Une langue, c'est un dialecte qui poss?de une arm?e, une marine et une aviation."   We like to add the Air Force.

lsg
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: jforjames at aol.com 
  To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu 
  Sent: Monday, October 27, 2008 6:19 PM
  Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] the dash don't be silent


  "A shprakh iz a diyalekt mit an armey un a flot"





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From anny.ballardini at gmail.com  Tue Oct 28 11:45:04 2008
From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 16:45:04 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] Banalities translated from the Chinese
Message-ID: <4b65c2d70810280845s5e3ef429sdc33f72a864dd2da@mail.gmail.com>

Sent by Lanny Quarles:

Banalities translated from the Chinese

Flies have short lice.
To hurry is wit in a flurry.
Red raspberries are red.
The end is the beginning of every end.
The beginning is the end of every beginning.
Banality becomes all respectable citizens.
Bourgeoisie is the beginning of every bourgeois.
Spice makes short jokes nice.
All women hate mice.
Every beginning has an end.
The world is full of smart people.
Smart is dumb.
Not everything called expressionism is expressive art.
Dumb is smart.
Smart remains dumb.

Banalit?ten aus dem Chinesischen
-Kurt Schwitters

-- 
Anny Ballardini
http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html
I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing
star!
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From opus40-01 at opus40.org  Tue Oct 28 12:17:09 2008
From: opus40-01 at opus40.org (opus40-01 at opus40.org)
Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 12:17:09 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetic Justice
Message-ID: <380-220081022816179729@M2W020.mail2web.com>

<<football players v nurses>>

What's the point spread?



Original Message:
-----------------
From: Roger Day rog3r.day at gmail.com
Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 11:15:39 +0000
To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Poetic Justice


Why should we forfeit our role of starving prophets of the age? As a
holier-than-position it's hard to beat.

Value is often a highly debatable point - football players v nurses to
quote a common debating point - and the "invisible hand" of an
"unregulated" free-market has it's usual dread effect on things,
mostly because people let it. Markets are never completely "free"
otherwise we'd still be slave-traders (I don't include wage-slaves in
this definition) so there are moral and legal boundaries to any
market. I wish poetry (and by extension poets) were valued higher than
they are but ...

Poets (in common with a lot of artifact producers) rarely get paid by
the hour for poeting. They usually get paid on royalties. I'd boost
for a higher cut of the royalties but how do we get paid in the age of
the internet? Copying  on the net is such a lightweight, integral
operation that enforcing artificial scarcity (the ordinary way of
ensuring value) is a hard thing to do. Value by reputation is also
hard to do in this hyperactive mechanically mimetic environment. A
hard conunmdrum to solve.

Roger

On 10/27/08, Bob Grumman <bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net> wrote:
>
>
> > Then again, you could pay waiters a proper living wage so they
> > wouldn't have to depend on tips.
> >
> > Roger
> >
> >
>  Ah, but then you risk the slippery slope into paying a proper living wage
> to . . . poets.  (To get us on-topic.)
>
>  --Bob G.
>
>
>  _______________________________________________
>  New-Poetry mailing list
>  New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>  http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>


-- 
My Stuff: http://www.badstep.net/
"I began to warm and chill
to objects and their fields"
Nick Cave & The Bad Seeds
_______________________________________________
New-Poetry mailing list
New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry

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mail2web - Check your email from the web at
http://link.mail2web.com/mail2web





From jforjames at aol.com  Tue Oct 28 19:07:19 2008
From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 19:07:19 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] Sign o' the Times: CSM going web only
Message-ID: <8CB07690F8F2E47-CAC-B11@WEBMAIL-DC05.sysops.aol.com>

http://www.bizjournals.com/pittsburgh/stories/2008/10/27/daily18.html

The Christian Science Monitor, which turns 100 years old next month, will cease its daily print operations in 2009 and adopt a Web-based strategy, the national newspaper said Tuesday
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From chan_jt at hotmail.com  Tue Oct 28 21:01:13 2008
From: chan_jt at hotmail.com (JT Chan)
Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2008 01:01:13 +0000
Subject: [New-Poetry] New issue now line
Message-ID: <BLU134-W240B3A48ECCE6F90E584178A260@phx.gbl>




Poetry Sz: demystifying mental illness, Issue 27 with


New work by:



Megan Burns

Jefferson Hansen

Lois Marie Harrod

Michael Lee Johnson

Christopher Barnes

Linda Graham

Laurie Cook



http://poetrysz.blogspot.com

Submissions now open for Issue 28. Send 4-6 poems and a short bio in the body of your email to poetrysz at yahoo.com . Please read the guidelines first.


Thank you.


regards

J Chan
editor

_________________________________________________________________




From anny.ballardini at gmail.com  Wed Oct 29 03:05:14 2008
From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2008 08:05:14 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] Choral Evensong
Message-ID: <4b65c2d70810290005pfd87432g464519ca25da57de@mail.gmail.com>

http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio3/classical/cesched.shtml




-- 
Anny Ballardini
http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html
I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing
star!
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From rog3r.day at gmail.com  Wed Oct 29 05:16:06 2008
From: rog3r.day at gmail.com (Roger Day)
Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2008 09:16:06 +0000
Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetic Justice
In-Reply-To: <380-220081022816179729@M2W020.mail2web.com>
References: <380-220081022816179729@M2W020.mail2web.com>
Message-ID: <fde503480810290216p22ad6e52w58367dbb482b9c8c@mail.gmail.com>

Heavily in favour of the football players, I fear.

btb spread-betting is another of the City of London's little
innovations. I eagerly await some awesome side-effect of this
practice.

Roger

On 10/28/08, opus40-01 at opus40.org <opus40-01 at opus40.org> wrote:
> <<football players v nurses>>
>
>  What's the point spread?
>
>
>
>  Original Message:
>  -----------------
>  From: Roger Day rog3r.day at gmail.com
>  Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 11:15:39 +0000
>  To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>
> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Poetic Justice
>
>
>
> Why should we forfeit our role of starving prophets of the age? As a
>  holier-than-position it's hard to beat.
>
>  Value is often a highly debatable point - football players v nurses to
>  quote a common debating point - and the "invisible hand" of an
>  "unregulated" free-market has it's usual dread effect on things,
>  mostly because people let it. Markets are never completely "free"
>  otherwise we'd still be slave-traders (I don't include wage-slaves in
>  this definition) so there are moral and legal boundaries to any
>  market. I wish poetry (and by extension poets) were valued higher than
>  they are but ...
>
>  Poets (in common with a lot of artifact producers) rarely get paid by
>  the hour for poeting. They usually get paid on royalties. I'd boost
>  for a higher cut of the royalties but how do we get paid in the age of
>  the internet? Copying  on the net is such a lightweight, integral
>  operation that enforcing artificial scarcity (the ordinary way of
>  ensuring value) is a hard thing to do. Value by reputation is also
>  hard to do in this hyperactive mechanically mimetic environment. A
>  hard conunmdrum to solve.
>
>  Roger
>
>  On 10/27/08, Bob Grumman <bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net> wrote:
>  >
>  >
>  > > Then again, you could pay waiters a proper living wage so they
>  > > wouldn't have to depend on tips.
>  > >
>  > > Roger
>  > >
>  > >
>  >  Ah, but then you risk the slippery slope into paying a proper living wage
>  > to . . . poets.  (To get us on-topic.)
>  >
>  >  --Bob G.
>  >
>  >
>  >  _______________________________________________
>  >  New-Poetry mailing list
>  >  New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>  >  http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>  >
>
>
>  --
>  My Stuff: http://www.badstep.net/
>  "I began to warm and chill
>  to objects and their fields"
>  Nick Cave & The Bad Seeds
>  _______________________________________________
>  New-Poetry mailing list
>  New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>  http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
>  mail2web - Check your email from the web at
>  http://link.mail2web.com/mail2web
>
>
>
>
>  _______________________________________________
>  New-Poetry mailing list
>  New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>  http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>


-- 
My Stuff: http://www.badstep.net/
"I began to warm and chill
to objects and their fields"
Nick Cave & The Bad Seeds


From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net  Wed Oct 29 07:21:39 2008
From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman)
Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2008 06:21:39 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetic Justice
In-Reply-To: <fde503480810290216p22ad6e52w58367dbb482b9c8c@mail.gmail.com>
References: <380-220081022816179729@M2W020.mail2web.com>
	<fde503480810290216p22ad6e52w58367dbb482b9c8c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <49084743.2080908@nut-n-but.net>

Roger Day wrote:
> Heavily in favour of the football players, I fear.
>   
Not really.  Only the very best football players make more than nurses.  
And should, life being more important than survival, which is one reason 
I'm a poet, not a doctor.

--Bob G.



From halvard at earthlink.net  Wed Oct 29 11:13:06 2008
From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson)
Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2008 09:13:06 -0600
Subject: [New-Poetry] Choral Evensong
In-Reply-To: <4b65c2d70810290005pfd87432g464519ca25da57de@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4b65c2d70810290005pfd87432g464519ca25da57de@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <DA0C8B8E-C97D-44D8-8EAE-73723994BA8D@earthlink.net>

choral oddsong




From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net  Wed Oct 29 12:32:44 2008
From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman)
Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2008 11:32:44 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Choral Evensong
In-Reply-To: <DA0C8B8E-C97D-44D8-8EAE-73723994BA8D@earthlink.net>
References: <4b65c2d70810290005pfd87432g464519ca25da57de@mail.gmail.com>
	<DA0C8B8E-C97D-44D8-8EAE-73723994BA8D@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <4908902C.3020501@nut-n-but.net>

Halvard Johnson wrote:
> choral oddsong
Hmmm, maybe I'll adjust my taxonomy: evensong and oddsong poetry--for 
Grahamsong and Grummansong poetry . . .



From skip at louisiana.edu  Wed Oct 29 11:42:12 2008
From: skip at louisiana.edu (Skip Fox)
Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2008 10:42:12 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Choral Evensong
In-Reply-To: <DA0C8B8E-C97D-44D8-8EAE-73723994BA8D@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <60676829A6CE4BFD858CAFD7E7B15840@win.louisiana.edu>

Sorrel Sodsong

-----Original Message-----
From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu
[mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Halvard Johnson
Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 10:13 AM
To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &amp;Views
Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Choral Evensong

choral oddsong


_______________________________________________
New-Poetry mailing list
New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry



From anny.ballardini at gmail.com  Wed Oct 29 12:07:29 2008
From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2008 17:07:29 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] Choral Evensong
In-Reply-To: <60676829A6CE4BFD858CAFD7E7B15840@win.louisiana.edu>
References: <DA0C8B8E-C97D-44D8-8EAE-73723994BA8D@earthlink.net>
	<60676829A6CE4BFD858CAFD7E7B15840@win.louisiana.edu>
Message-ID: <4b65c2d70810290907k1fcae9e5u7f20f70768bb2f87@mail.gmail.com>

But look at this mess, that was a serious Link!
You terrible pOets_
!


If it is a rainy day there as it is here and you have about an hour free
(it's all you need to see them all), watch some shorts by Bruno Bozzetto:

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=bruno+bozzetto&search_type=



On Wed, Oct 29, 2008 at 4:42 PM, Skip Fox <skip at louisiana.edu> wrote:

> Sorrel Sodsong
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> [mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Halvard Johnson
> Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 10:13 AM
> To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &amp;Views
> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Choral Evensong
>
> choral oddsong
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>



-- 
Anny Ballardini
http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html
I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing
star!
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From rog3r.day at gmail.com  Wed Oct 29 12:21:32 2008
From: rog3r.day at gmail.com (Roger Day)
Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2008 16:21:32 +0000
Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetic Justice
In-Reply-To: <49084743.2080908@nut-n-but.net>
References: <380-220081022816179729@M2W020.mail2web.com>
	<fde503480810290216p22ad6e52w58367dbb482b9c8c@mail.gmail.com>
	<49084743.2080908@nut-n-but.net>
Message-ID: <fde503480810290921i4bb64304n41b8862eb0b4e5fa@mail.gmail.com>

They do in this country.

Roger

On 10/29/08, Bob Grumman <bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net> wrote:
> Roger Day wrote:
>
> > Heavily in favour of the football players, I fear.
> >
> >
>  Not really.  Only the very best football players make more than nurses.
> And should, life being more important than survival, which is one reason I'm
> a poet, not a doctor.
>
>
>  --Bob G.
>
>  _______________________________________________
>  New-Poetry mailing list
>  New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>  http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>


-- 
My Stuff: http://www.badstep.net/
"I began to warm and chill
to objects and their fields"
Nick Cave & The Bad Seeds


From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net  Wed Oct 29 14:16:41 2008
From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman)
Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2008 13:16:41 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetic Justice
In-Reply-To: <fde503480810290921i4bb64304n41b8862eb0b4e5fa@mail.gmail.com>
References: <380-220081022816179729@M2W020.mail2web.com><fde503480810290216p22ad6e52w58367dbb482b9c8c@mail.gmail.com><49084743.20
	80908@nut-n-but.net>
	<fde503480810290921i4bb64304n41b8862eb0b4e5fa@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4908A889.3050904@nut-n-but.net>

Roger Day wrote:
> They do in this country.
>
>   
Are you counting all those playing the game for nothing--who would turn 
pro in an instant if they could?  The big problem with your comparison 
is that you're comparing a tiny elite--superior football players--with a 
much larger, non-elite group.  A nurse is a sort of lower-grade doctor.  
So you should compare football players with doctors.  In the US, doctors 
make lost more than professional athletes (most of whom are not 
major-leaguers), for a much longer time.  Amusingly, I suspect that if 
you compared the earnings of professional poets--those whose main 
occupation was poetry--you might find that they earn more than nurses.

--Bob G.




From Opus40-01 at opus40.org  Wed Oct 29 13:46:41 2008
From: Opus40-01 at opus40.org (TheOldMole)
Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2008 13:46:41 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetic Justice
In-Reply-To: <4908A889.3050904@nut-n-but.net>
References: <380-220081022816179729@M2W020.mail2web.com><fde503480810290216p22ad6e52w58367dbb482b9c8c@mail.gmail.com><49084743.20	80908@nut-n-but.net>	<fde503480810290921i4bb64304n41b8862eb0b4e5fa@mail.gmail.com>
	<4908A889.3050904@nut-n-but.net>
Message-ID: <4908A181.7070708@opus40.org>

Bob -- neat note.

Bob Grumman wrote:
> Roger Day wrote:
>> They do in this country.
>>
>>   
> Are you counting all those playing the game for nothing--who would 
> turn pro in an instant if they could?  The big problem with your 
> comparison is that you're comparing a tiny elite--superior football 
> players--with a much larger, non-elite group.  A nurse is a sort of 
> lower-grade doctor.  So you should compare football players with 
> doctors.  In the US, doctors make lost more than professional athletes 
> (most of whom are not major-leaguers), for a much longer time.  
> Amusingly, I suspect that if you compared the earnings of professional 
> poets--those whose main occupation was poetry--you might find that 
> they earn more than nurses.
>
> --Bob G.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>

-- 
Tad Richards
http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/
http://opusforty.blogspot.com/

Don't forget to order your copy of FILM NOIR!
http://stores.lulu.com/store.php?fAcctID=2712239



From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net  Wed Oct 29 15:10:14 2008
From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman)
Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2008 14:10:14 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetic Justice
In-Reply-To: <4908A181.7070708@opus40.org>
References: <380-220081022816179729@M2W020.mail2web.com><fde503480810290216p22ad6e52w58367dbb482b9c8c@mail.gmail.com><49084743.20
	80908@nut-n-but.net>	<fde503480810290921i4bb64304n41b8862eb0b4e5fa@mail.gmail.com><4908A889.3050904@nut-n-but.net>
	<4908A181.7070708@opus40.org>
Message-ID: <4908B516.7070607@nut-n-but.net>

TheOldMole wrote:
> Bob -- neat note.
Yikes, and I don't have time to revise it!  Seriously, thanks, Mole--I 
wasn't sure it wasn't nuts, but I just went with it.

--Bob



From rog3r.day at gmail.com  Wed Oct 29 14:24:08 2008
From: rog3r.day at gmail.com (Roger Day)
Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2008 18:24:08 +0000
Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetic Justice
In-Reply-To: <4908B516.7070607@nut-n-but.net>
References: <380-220081022816179729@M2W020.mail2web.com>
	<fde503480810290216p22ad6e52w58367dbb482b9c8c@mail.gmail.com>
	<fde503480810290921i4bb64304n41b8862eb0b4e5fa@mail.gmail.com>
	<4908A889.3050904@nut-n-but.net> <4908A181.7070708@opus40.org>
	<4908B516.7070607@nut-n-but.net>
Message-ID: <fde503480810291124t292f1114v98271476be0c3728@mail.gmail.com>

You were almost right -

http://www.gotpoetry.com/News/article/sid=5425.html

"Median annual earnings for salaried writers, poets, and authors were
$44,350 in May 2004. The middle 50 percent earned between $31,720 and
$62,930. The lowest 10 percent earned less than $23,330, and the
highest 10 percent earned more than $91,260. Median annual earnings
were $54,410 in advertising and related services and $37,010 in
newspaper, periodical, book, and directory publishers."

http://healthguideusa.org/careers/registered_nurse_earnings.htm

Median annual earnings of registered nurses were $57,280 in May 2006.
The middle 50 percent earned between $47,710 and $69,850. The lowest
10 percent earned less than $40,250, and the highest 10 percent earned
more than $83,440. Median annual earnings in the industries employing
the largest numbers of registered nurses in May 2006 were:

Employment services	$64,260
General medical and surgical hospitals	58,550
Home health care services	54,190
Offices of physicians	53,800
Nursing care facilities	52,490



On Wed, Oct 29, 2008 at 7:10 PM, Bob Grumman <bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net> wrote:
> TheOldMole wrote:
>>
>> Bob -- neat note.
>
> Yikes, and I don't have time to revise it!  Seriously, thanks, Mole--I
> wasn't sure it wasn't nuts, but I just went with it.
>
> --Bob
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>



-- 
My Stuff: http://www.badstep.net/
"I began to warm and chill
to objects and their fields"
Nick Cave & The Bad Seeds


From rog3r.day at gmail.com  Wed Oct 29 14:16:57 2008
From: rog3r.day at gmail.com (Roger Day)
Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2008 18:16:57 +0000
Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetic Justice
In-Reply-To: <4908A889.3050904@nut-n-but.net>
References: <380-220081022816179729@M2W020.mail2web.com>
	<fde503480810290216p22ad6e52w58367dbb482b9c8c@mail.gmail.com>
	<fde503480810290921i4bb64304n41b8862eb0b4e5fa@mail.gmail.com>
	<4908A889.3050904@nut-n-but.net>
Message-ID: <fde503480810291116u137705d0p7a58462c760ae8ee@mail.gmail.com>

My original point - before it gets nitpicked to oblivion - was taken
in the way that the tabloid conversation usually pitches footballers
against nurses. So it's not my comparison per se, but one kicked
around on the tabloids, usually high gains for entertaining versus the
morally superior occupation of nurse. As in "look at those rock stars,
they earn millions" as opposed to those nurse, who get paid a
pittance. Admittedly my subsequent point deserved to be detailed and
frittered away. Still, I bet those high-rollers in in any Premier
Division football tilt the balance in favour of themselves if the
average earnings of all the full-time professionals (including
managers, trainers, etc) were taken into account.

I'd compare doctors with team managers and trainers. They have a
similar level of training, longevity etc. Similar role come to think
about it.

Are there any figures for professional poets? You'd have to break down
the earnings, to actual earnings from poetry to earnings from
lectureships, critic jobs,, radio interviews, puff-pieces for
magazines etc etc. I'd be surprised if any poet lived entirely on
royalties or performance dues alone.

Of course, what's missing from this conversation is actual figures.
You know, numbers. I'd hate to think we're running on nothing but
assertions here ... of course, we could just run around in circles.

Roger

On Wed, Oct 29, 2008 at 6:16 PM, Bob Grumman <bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net> wrote:
> Roger Day wrote:
>>
>> They do in this country.
>>
>>
>
> Are you counting all those playing the game for nothing--who would turn pro
> in an instant if they could?  The big problem with your comparison is that
> you're comparing a tiny elite--superior football players--with a much
> larger, non-elite group.  A nurse is a sort of lower-grade doctor.  So you
> should compare football players with doctors.  In the US, doctors make lost
> more than professional athletes (most of whom are not major-leaguers), for a
> much longer time.  Amusingly, I suspect that if you compared the earnings of
> professional poets--those whose main occupation was poetry--you might find
> that they earn more than nurses.
>
> --Bob G.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>



-- 
My Stuff: http://www.badstep.net/
"I began to warm and chill
to objects and their fields"
Nick Cave & The Bad Seeds


From grahamd at ripon.edu  Wed Oct 29 14:56:54 2008
From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham)
Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2008 13:56:54 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Business of poetry
In-Reply-To: <fde503480810291116u137705d0p7a58462c760ae8ee@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <C52E1C26.38F3%grahamd@ripon.edu>

Students fairly commonly inquire whether there are any poets in the U.S. who
"make a living" with their poetry.

I think a simple answer is tricky.  If by "make a living" one means
royalties alone, I doubt there are many.  Maybe none?  I would venture to
guess that even Billy Collins, Maya Angelou, Mary Oliver and such luminaries
do not earn much of a white-collar wage from royalties alone.  Certainly
they make much more from reading and lecture fees, in any case.

I once heard Donald Hall remark that he had earned more editing a single
textbook than for all of his books of poetry combined.

And how would you count someone like Mark Strand?  Whatever his book sales,
I'm sure he made most of his daily bread down the decades not in reading
fees but in the classroom.  Yet he wouldn't have been in the classroom had
he not had a high reputation as a poet, etc.

The wonderful and underappreciated Robert Francis made a valiant go of it,
trying to live purely as a poet.  He lived in poverty his whole adult life,
accordingly.  But even he had to give music lessons and such to get by, not
to mention growing his own food and, near the end of his life, accepting
charity to get his house painted and so forth.



====================================================
David Graham
grahamd at ripon.edu
Home Page:
http://web.mac.com/drjazz/

Poetry Library:
http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html
====================================================





From rog3r.day at gmail.com  Wed Oct 29 15:03:33 2008
From: rog3r.day at gmail.com (Roger Day)
Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2008 19:03:33 +0000
Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetic Justice
In-Reply-To: <fde503480810291124t292f1114v98271476be0c3728@mail.gmail.com>
References: <380-220081022816179729@M2W020.mail2web.com>
	<fde503480810290216p22ad6e52w58367dbb482b9c8c@mail.gmail.com>
	<fde503480810290921i4bb64304n41b8862eb0b4e5fa@mail.gmail.com>
	<4908A889.3050904@nut-n-but.net> <4908A181.7070708@opus40.org>
	<4908B516.7070607@nut-n-but.net>
	<fde503480810291124t292f1114v98271476be0c3728@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <fde503480810291203r74acd9bfu8b9bf100dc274e9a@mail.gmail.com>

And finally. I should note that there are 2 scales of nurses *below*
Registered Nurses
(http://swz.salary.com/salarywizard/layouthtmls/swzl_compresult_national_HC07000004.html).
Factoring that into consideration would probably bring the averages
down. Taking everything into consideration (in the figures below, I
don't think many poets figure in the top quartile), I think Athletes,
Poets and Nurses are actually comparable in their pay-scales. All
these sectors have participants who work for free. Each have a cream
of high earners.

http://www.bls.gov/oco/ocos251.htm

Median annual wage and salary earnings of athletes were $41,060 in May
2006. However, the highest paid professional athletes earn much more.

Median annual wage and salary earnings of umpires and related workers
were $22,880 in May 2006. The middle 50 percent earned between $17,090
and $33,840. The lowest paid 10 percent earned less than $14,120, and
the highest paid 10 percent earned more than $45,430.

In May 2006, median annual wage and salary earnings of coaches and
scouts were $26,950. The middle 50 percent earned between $17,510 and
$40,850. The lowest paid 10 percent earned less than $13,990, and the
highest paid 10 percent earned more than $58,890. However, the highest
paid professional coaches earn much more. Median annual earnings in
the industries employing the largest numbers of coaches and scouts in
May 2006 are shown below:

Colleges, universities, and professional schools 	$37,530
Other amusement and recreation industries 	27,180
Fitness and recreational sports centers 	26,150
Other schools and instruction 	23,840
Elementary and secondary schools 	21,960

Earnings vary by level of education, certification, and geographic
region. Some instructors and coaches are paid a salary, while others
may be paid by the hour, per session, or based on the number of
participants.


On Wed, Oct 29, 2008 at 6:24 PM, Roger Day <rog3r.day at gmail.com> wrote:
> You were almost right -
>
> http://www.gotpoetry.com/News/article/sid=5425.html
>
> "Median annual earnings for salaried writers, poets, and authors were
> $44,350 in May 2004. The middle 50 percent earned between $31,720 and
> $62,930. The lowest 10 percent earned less than $23,330, and the
> highest 10 percent earned more than $91,260. Median annual earnings
> were $54,410 in advertising and related services and $37,010 in
> newspaper, periodical, book, and directory publishers."
>
> http://healthguideusa.org/careers/registered_nurse_earnings.htm
>
> Median annual earnings of registered nurses were $57,280 in May 2006.
> The middle 50 percent earned between $47,710 and $69,850. The lowest
> 10 percent earned less than $40,250, and the highest 10 percent earned
> more than $83,440. Median annual earnings in the industries employing
> the largest numbers of registered nurses in May 2006 were:
>
> Employment services     $64,260
> General medical and surgical hospitals  58,550
> Home health care services       54,190
> Offices of physicians   53,800
> Nursing care facilities 52,490
>
>
>
> On Wed, Oct 29, 2008 at 7:10 PM, Bob Grumman <bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net> wrote:
>> TheOldMole wrote:
>>>
>>> Bob -- neat note.
>>
>> Yikes, and I don't have time to revise it!  Seriously, thanks, Mole--I
>> wasn't sure it wasn't nuts, but I just went with it.
>>
>> --Bob
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> New-Poetry mailing list
>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>>
>
>
>
> --
> My Stuff: http://www.badstep.net/
> "I began to warm and chill
> to objects and their fields"
> Nick Cave & The Bad Seeds
>



-- 
My Stuff: http://www.badstep.net/
"I began to warm and chill
to objects and their fields"
Nick Cave & The Bad Seeds


From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net  Wed Oct 29 16:52:52 2008
From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman)
Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2008 15:52:52 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetic Justice
In-Reply-To: <fde503480810291124t292f1114v98271476be0c3728@mail.gmail.com>
References: <380-220081022816179729@M2W020.mail2web.com><fde503480810290216p22ad6e52w58367dbb482b9c8c@mail.gmail.com><fde50348081
	0290921i4bb64304n41b8862eb0b4e5fa@mail.gmail.com><4908A889.3050904@nut-n-but.net>
	<4908A181.7070708@opus40.org><4908B516.7070607@nut-n-but.net>
	<fde503480810291124t292f1114v98271476be0c3728@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4908CD24.4030307@nut-n-but.net>

Of course, I don't have the numbers, just my feel for things.  As for 
the salaried writers you compared to nurses, how many of them were 
poets?  Do we need a statistical guide or can we simply assert, "less 
than a hundred?"

As for professional poets' earnings, I think you'd have to include 
everything they made from being a poet, which would include lecture 
fees, and much else besides royalties.

--Bob G.



From anny.ballardini at gmail.com  Wed Oct 29 16:17:04 2008
From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2008 21:17:04 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] Business of poetry
In-Reply-To: <C52E1C26.38F3%grahamd@ripon.edu>
References: <fde503480810291116u137705d0p7a58462c760ae8ee@mail.gmail.com>
	<C52E1C26.38F3%grahamd@ripon.edu>
Message-ID: <4b65c2d70810291317g318c9694jbd66ba8fab66c535@mail.gmail.com>

Yes, that is the way it goes. Leonardo had to draw war machines to survive.
As usual, nothing new under the same burning sun.


On Wed, Oct 29, 2008 at 7:56 PM, David Graham <grahamd at ripon.edu> wrote:

> Students fairly commonly inquire whether there are any poets in the U.S.
> who
> "make a living" with their poetry.
>
> I think a simple answer is tricky.  If by "make a living" one means
> royalties alone, I doubt there are many.  Maybe none?  I would venture to
> guess that even Billy Collins, Maya Angelou, Mary Oliver and such
> luminaries
> do not earn much of a white-collar wage from royalties alone.  Certainly
> they make much more from reading and lecture fees, in any case.
>
> I once heard Donald Hall remark that he had earned more editing a single
> textbook than for all of his books of poetry combined.
>
> And how would you count someone like Mark Strand?  Whatever his book sales,
> I'm sure he made most of his daily bread down the decades not in reading
> fees but in the classroom.  Yet he wouldn't have been in the classroom had
> he not had a high reputation as a poet, etc.
>
> The wonderful and underappreciated Robert Francis made a valiant go of it,
> trying to live purely as a poet.  He lived in poverty his whole adult life,
> accordingly.  But even he had to give music lessons and such to get by, not
> to mention growing his own food and, near the end of his life, accepting
> charity to get his house painted and so forth.
>
>
>
> ====================================================
> David Graham
> grahamd at ripon.edu
> Home Page:
> http://web.mac.com/drjazz/
>
> Poetry Library:
> http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html
> ====================================================
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>



-- 
Anny Ballardini
http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html
I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing
star!
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From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net  Wed Oct 29 17:19:31 2008
From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman)
Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2008 16:19:31 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Business of poetry
In-Reply-To: <C52E1C26.38F3%grahamd@ripon.edu>
References: <C52E1C26.38F3%grahamd@ripon.edu>
Message-ID: <4908D363.7020007@nut-n-but.net>

David Graham wrote:
> Students fairly commonly inquire whether there are any poets in the U.S. who
> "make a living" with their poetry.
>
> I think a simple answer is tricky.  If by "make a living" one means
> royalties alone, I doubt there are many.  Maybe none?  I would venture to
> guess that even Billy Collins, Maya Angelou, Mary Oliver and such luminaries
> do not earn much of a white-collar wage from royalties alone.
I suspect Angelou makes a lot from her novels, which are in many public 
schools.

> Certainly
> they make much more from reading and lecture fees, in any case.
>
> I once heard Donald Hall remark that he had earned more editing a single
> textbook than for all of his books of poetry combined.
>
> And how would you count someone like Mark Strand?  Whatever his book sales,
> I'm sure he made most of his daily bread down the decades not in reading
> fees but in the classroom.  Yet he wouldn't have been in the classroom had
> he not had a high reputation as a poet, etc.
>
> The wonderful and underappreciated Robert Francis made a valiant go of it,
> trying to live purely as a poet.  He lived in poverty his whole adult life,
> accordingly.  But even he had to give music lessons and such to get by, not
> to mention growing his own food and, near the end of his life, accepting
> charity to get his house painted and so forth.
>
>   
I brought up "professional poets" more or less tongue-in-cheek.  The 
real professional poet of today in the US, it seems to me, is the 
academic who is paid for his poetry not in royalties but in advancement 
in teaching--just as many other academics are paid for what they write 
as historians, philosophers, etc., in advancement as professors.  To 
agree more or less with what I take David to be saying.

--Bob G.




From anny.ballardini at gmail.com  Wed Oct 29 17:33:22 2008
From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2008 22:33:22 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: "Epidermis," Issue #4
In-Reply-To: <6f1e9ee40810290708g6a00e08fiacd442f02139a7a2@mail.gmail.com>
References: <6f1e9ee40810290708g6a00e08fiacd442f02139a7a2@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4b65c2d70810291433q2980cb84j7875115faf4d290b@mail.gmail.com>

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: S?amas Cain <seamascain at gmail.com>
Date: Wed, Oct 29, 2008 at 3:08 PM
Subject: "Epidermis," Issue #4
To: BRITISH-IRISH-POETS at jiscmail.ac.uk


_______________


The fourth issue of "Epidermis" is now available online, at

http://epidermis.randomflux.info

There are works from

Maria Damon
Bob BrueckL
Angela Genusa
Jim Leftwich & Jukka-Pekka Kervinen
Thomas Lowe Taylor
Peter Ganick
and Jeff Harrison

Enjoy !

http://epidermis.randomflux.info

"Epidermis" poetry magazine, with texts in English, innovative and
refreshing, is edited by Jukka-Pekka Kervinen in Kitee, Finland.

Best regards,

S?amas Cain
http://alazanto.org/seamascain
http://seamascain.writernetwork.com
http://www.mnartists.org/Seamas_Cain

_______________



-- 
Anny Ballardini
http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html
I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing
star!
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From rog3r.day at gmail.com  Wed Oct 29 17:37:24 2008
From: rog3r.day at gmail.com (Roger Day)
Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2008 21:37:24 +0000
Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetic Justice
In-Reply-To: <4908CD24.4030307@nut-n-but.net>
References: <380-220081022816179729@M2W020.mail2web.com>
	<fde503480810290216p22ad6e52w58367dbb482b9c8c@mail.gmail.com>
	<4908A889.3050904@nut-n-but.net> <4908A181.7070708@opus40.org>
	<4908B516.7070607@nut-n-but.net>
	<fde503480810291124t292f1114v98271476be0c3728@mail.gmail.com>
	<4908CD24.4030307@nut-n-but.net>
Message-ID: <fde503480810291437x4af22b6n4260c85074c6202@mail.gmail.com>

"you go to war with the army you have"

and those are the only figures I could find. I did say I couldn't
quite trust those figures wrt poets. Still, if there are better ones
out there ...

When ever I get a "feeling" I always try to correlate these feelings
with something that looks like a fact and adjust my sense of things
accordingly. YMMV.

Roger

On Wed, Oct 29, 2008 at 8:52 PM, Bob Grumman <bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net> wrote:
> Of course, I don't have the numbers, just my feel for things.  As for the
> salaried writers you compared to nurses, how many of them were poets?  Do we
> need a statistical guide or can we simply assert, "less than a hundred?"
>
> As for professional poets' earnings, I think you'd have to include
> everything they made from being a poet, which would include lecture fees,
> and much else besides royalties.
>
> --Bob G.
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>



-- 
My Stuff: http://www.badstep.net/
"I began to warm and chill
to objects and their fields"
Nick Cave & The Bad Seeds


From halvard at earthlink.net  Wed Oct 29 18:04:10 2008
From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson)
Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2008 16:04:10 -0600
Subject: [New-Poetry] Business of poetry
In-Reply-To: <4908D363.7020007@nut-n-but.net>
References: <C52E1C26.38F3%grahamd@ripon.edu> <4908D363.7020007@nut-n-but.net>
Message-ID: <8CA66F58-B210-4927-A327-AF8D98390214@earthlink.net>

Of course, Maya Angelou was once making $80,000
a year from a university that just wanted her name
in its catalog. Some journalist famously checked out
the school and found the "office" listed as hers to be
a broom closet.

Hal

McCain / Palin -- Just say thanks but no thanks.
They're a bridge to nowhere.

Halvard Johnson
================
halvard at earthlink.net
halvard at gmail.com
http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html
http://entropyandme.blogspot.com
http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com
http://www.hamiltonstone.org
http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html





> I suspect Angelou makes a lot from her novels, which are in many  
> public schools.



From halvard at earthlink.net  Wed Oct 29 18:05:32 2008
From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson)
Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2008 16:05:32 -0600
Subject: [New-Poetry] Business of poetry
In-Reply-To: <8CA66F58-B210-4927-A327-AF8D98390214@earthlink.net>
References: <C52E1C26.38F3%grahamd@ripon.edu> <4908D363.7020007@nut-n-but.net>
	<8CA66F58-B210-4927-A327-AF8D98390214@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <0FD1695B-B024-4323-9CF3-5C521ED6ED3A@earthlink.net>

Sorry. The word "allegedly" should be in that first
sentence of the message below. Mea culpa.

Hal

McCain / Palin -- Just say thanks but no thanks.
They're a bridge to nowhere.

Halvard Johnson
================
halvard at earthlink.net
halvard at gmail.com
http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html
http://entropyandme.blogspot.com
http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com
http://www.hamiltonstone.org
http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html



On Oct 29, 2008, at 4:04 PM, Halvard Johnson wrote:

> Of course, Maya Angelou was once making $80,000
> a year from a university that just wanted her name
> in its catalog. Some journalist famously checked out
> the school and found the "office" listed as hers to be
> a broom closet.
>
> Hal
>
> McCain / Palin -- Just say thanks but no thanks.
> They're a bridge to nowhere.
>
> Halvard Johnson
> ================
> halvard at earthlink.net
> halvard at gmail.com
> http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html
> http://entropyandme.blogspot.com
> http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com
> http://www.hamiltonstone.org
> http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html
>
>
>
>
>
>> I suspect Angelou makes a lot from her novels, which are in many  
>> public schools.
>



From millb at aol.com  Wed Oct 29 18:19:10 2008
From: millb at aol.com (Millicent Accardi)
Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2008 18:19:10 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] Business of poetry
In-Reply-To: <0FD1695B-B024-4323-9CF3-5C521ED6ED3A@earthlink.net>
References: <C52E1C26.38F3%grahamd@ripon.edu>
	<4908D363.7020007@nut-n-but.net><8CA66F58-B210-4927-A327-AF8D98390214@earthlink.net>
	<0FD1695B-B024-4323-9CF3-5C521ED6ED3A@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <8CB082B80206FD2-94C-8C4@webmail-mf03.sysops.aol.com>

I won't name names either, but allegedly, a well-known university retained Ginsberg's name as "visiting poet" in their catalogue and national ads long after his death. Many years after.


Cheers,

Millicent 


-----Original Message-----
From: Halvard Johnson <halvard at earthlink.net>
To: NewPoetry: &amp; Views <new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
Sent: Wed, 29 Oct 2008 3:05 pm
Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Business of poetry



Sorry. The word "allegedly" should be in that first?
sentence of the message below. Mea culpa.?
?
Hal?
?
McCain / Palin -- Just say thanks but no thanks.?
They're a bridge to nowhere.?
?
Halvard Johnson?
================?
halvard at earthlink.net?
halvard at gmail.com?
http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html?
http://entropyandme.blogspot.com?
http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com?
http://www.hamiltonstone.org?
http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html?
?
?
On Oct 29, 2008, at 4:04 PM, Halvard Johnson wrote:?
?
> Of course, Maya Angelou was once making $80,000?
> a year from a university that just wanted her name?
> in its catalog. Some journalist famously checked out?
> the school and found the "office" listed as hers to be?
> a broom closet.?
>?
> Hal?
>?
> McCain / Palin -- Just say thanks but no thanks.?
> They're a bridge to nowhere.?
>?
> Halvard Johnson?
> ================?
> halvard at earthlink.net?
> halvard at gmail.com?
> http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html?
> http://entropyandme.blogspot.com?
> http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com?
> http://www.hamiltonstone.org?
> http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html?
>?
>?
>?
>?
>?
>> I suspect Angelou makes a lot from her novels, which are in many >> public schools.?
>?
?
_______________________________________________?
New-Poetry mailing list?
New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu?
http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry?

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From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net  Wed Oct 29 19:55:37 2008
From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman)
Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2008 18:55:37 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: "Epidermis," Issue #4
In-Reply-To: <4b65c2d70810291433q2980cb84j7875115faf4d290b@mail.gmail.com>
References: <6f1e9ee40810290708g6a00e08fiacd442f02139a7a2@mail.gmail.com>
	<4b65c2d70810291433q2980cb84j7875115faf4d290b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4908F7F9.7000102@nut-n-but.net>

Anny Ballardini wrote:
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: *S?amas Cain* <seamascain at gmail.com <mailto:seamascain at gmail.com>>
> Date: Wed, Oct 29, 2008 at 3:08 PM
> Subject: "Epidermis," Issue #4
> To: BRITISH-IRISH-POETS at jiscmail.ac.uk 
> <mailto:BRITISH-IRISH-POETS at jiscmail.ac.uk>
>
>
> _______________
>
>
> The fourth issue of "Epidermis" is now available online, at
>
> http://epidermis.randomflux.info
>
> There are works from
>
> Maria Damon
> Bob BrueckL
> Angela Genusa
> Jim Leftwich & Jukka-Pekka Kervinen
> Thomas Lowe Taylor
> Peter Ganick
> and Jeff Harrison
>
> Enjoy !
>
> http://epidermis.randomflux.info
>
> "Epidermis" poetry magazine, with texts in English, innovative and
> refreshing, is edited by Jukka-Pekka Kervinen in Kitee, Finland.
>
> Best regards,
>
> S?amas Cain
> <http://alazanto.org/seamascain>
Beware: these are poets I consider to be part of my crowd.

--Bob G.
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From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net  Wed Oct 29 20:02:39 2008
From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman)
Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2008 19:02:39 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetic Justice
In-Reply-To: <fde503480810291437x4af22b6n4260c85074c6202@mail.gmail.com>
References: <380-220081022816179729@M2W020.mail2web.com><fde503480810290216p22ad6e52w58367dbb482b9c8c@mail.gmail.com><4908A889.30
	50904@nut-n-but.net>
	<4908A181.7070708@opus40.org><4908B516.7070607@nut-n-but.net><fde503480810291124t292f1114v98271476be0c3728@mail.gmail.com><490
	8CD24.4030307@nut-n-but.net>
	<fde503480810291437x4af22b6n4260c85074c6202@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4908F99F.9050806@nut-n-but.net>

Roger Day wrote:
> "you go to war with the army you have"
>
> and those are the only figures I could find. I did say I couldn't
> quite trust those figures wrt poets. Still, if there are better ones
> out there ...
>
> When ever I get a "feeling" I always try to correlate these feelings
> with something that looks like a fact and adjust my sense of things
> accordingly. YMMV.
>   
Well, usually my feelings are based on absorbed data.  The main thing is 
to resist claiming one's opinion is a fact, which I have done here.  I'd 
add that  in this case it's pretty certain there are no relevant figures 
around, although the ones you produced were interesting--at the same 
level as my feelings.  This is a kind of dopey but fun topic to bat 
around, I think, but nothing more serious. 

Another observation: that there are a huge number of men in the States 
who bewail how much professional athletes are paid--yet spend ten 
percent or more of their lives watching them on television and reading 
about them in newspapers and magazines.

--Bob G.



From anny.ballardini at gmail.com  Wed Oct 29 19:04:25 2008
From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2008 00:04:25 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: "Epidermis," Issue #4
In-Reply-To: <4908F7F9.7000102@nut-n-but.net>
References: <6f1e9ee40810290708g6a00e08fiacd442f02139a7a2@mail.gmail.com>
	<4b65c2d70810291433q2980cb84j7875115faf4d290b@mail.gmail.com>
	<4908F7F9.7000102@nut-n-but.net>
Message-ID: <4b65c2d70810291604g702e5543je1620afd4cf575a5@mail.gmail.com>

Bob, they are also part of mycrowdedself youselfishbobwithoutbeing afish

On Thu, Oct 30, 2008 at 12:55 AM, Bob Grumman <bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net>wrote:

>  Anny Ballardini wrote:
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: S?amas Cain <seamascain at gmail.com>
> Date: Wed, Oct 29, 2008 at 3:08 PM
> Subject: "Epidermis," Issue #4
> To: BRITISH-IRISH-POETS at jiscmail.ac.uk
>
>
> _______________
>
>
> The fourth issue of "Epidermis" is now available online, at
>
> http://epidermis.randomflux.info
>
> There are works from
>
> Maria Damon
> Bob BrueckL
> Angela Genusa
> Jim Leftwich & Jukka-Pekka Kervinen
> Thomas Lowe Taylor
> Peter Ganick
> and Jeff Harrison
>
> Enjoy !
>
> http://epidermis.randomflux.info
>
> "Epidermis" poetry magazine, with texts in English, innovative and
> refreshing, is edited by Jukka-Pekka Kervinen in Kitee, Finland.
>
> Best regards,
>
> S?amas Cain
>  <http://alazanto.org/seamascain>
>
> Beware: these are poets I consider to be part of my crowd.
>
> --Bob G.
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
>


-- 
Anny Ballardini
http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html
I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing
star!
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From jjeffreymail at yahoo.com  Wed Oct 29 20:00:19 2008
From: jjeffreymail at yahoo.com (John Jeffrey)
Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2008 17:00:19 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetic Justice
Message-ID: <236479.69504.qm@web54107.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

"...a huge number of men in the States who bewail how much professional athletes are paid--yet spend ten percent or more of their lives watching them."

And there's the prize in the Cracker Jack box:  A football player is an entertainer; a nurse is not. And an entertainer's pay is based on the number of people willing to pay to be entertained by them. (Either directly or through the third party.) It's a fairly straight-forward system, but it's cruel--if you cease to draw fans willing to plunk down a twenty, you're out on your helmet.  Because of this, there are no "merely acceptable" football players with long careers. They have to be the best at what they do--even counting arean football, there are only about 100 professional quarterbacks in the country. But there are millions of nurses, and a percentage of them can be "merely acceptable," and yet still have long careers.  Not so with football players, or any entertainers.  Ask the footballer who broke his leg as a rookie, or the singer of a one-hit wonder singer, or a writer like poor Melville.

I would argue that poetry--or any art--is also an entertainment.  And even within the smaller circle of the poetry world, this holds true.  The poets that sell the most earn the most money (as little as that may be) while the otherstreams (to borrow a phrase) do not.  Then again, it seems to me that many modern artists seems almost anathema to popularity, even hostile to it.  So why should they be paid for something that a vast majority of the people will not buy?  I'd bet that if otherstream poetry suddenly became popular, and there were rectangles and division symbols on greeting cards, and Hallmark offered salaried positions to otherstream poets, they would all think that they must be doing something wrong.

JohnJ




________________________________
From: Bob Grumman <bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net>
To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views" <new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 8:02:39 PM
Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Poetic Justice

Roger Day wrote:
> "you go to war with the army you have"
>
> and those are the only figures I could find. I did say I couldn't
> quite trust those figures wrt poets. Still, if there are better ones
> out there ...
>
> When ever I get a "feeling" I always try to correlate these feelings
> with something that looks like a fact and adjust my sense of things
> accordingly. YMMV.
>  
Well, usually my feelings are based on absorbed data.  The main thing is 
to resist claiming one's opinion is a fact, which I have done here.  I'd 
add that  in this case it's pretty certain there are no relevant figures 
around, although the ones you produced were interesting--at the same 
level as my feelings.  This is a kind of dopey but fun topic to bat 
around, I think, but nothing more serious. 

Another observation: that there are a huge number of men in the States 
who bewail how much professional athletes are paid--yet spend ten 
percent or more of their lives watching them on television and reading 
about them in newspapers and magazines.

--Bob G.

_______________________________________________
New-Poetry mailing list
New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry



      
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From Opus40-01 at opus40.org  Wed Oct 29 20:51:57 2008
From: Opus40-01 at opus40.org (TheOldMole)
Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2008 20:51:57 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] Business of poetry
In-Reply-To: <8CA66F58-B210-4927-A327-AF8D98390214@earthlink.net>
References: <C52E1C26.38F3%grahamd@ripon.edu> <4908D363.7020007@nut-n-but.net>
	<8CA66F58-B210-4927-A327-AF8D98390214@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <4909052D.6070206@opus40.org>

Sounds like my office.

Halvard Johnson wrote:
> Of course, Maya Angelou was once making $80,000
> a year from a university that just wanted her name
> in its catalog. Some journalist famously checked out
> the school and found the "office" listed as hers to be
> a broom closet.
>
> Hal
>
> McCain / Palin -- Just say thanks but no thanks.
> They're a bridge to nowhere.
>
> Halvard Johnson
> ================
> halvard at earthlink.net
> halvard at gmail.com
> http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html
> http://entropyandme.blogspot.com
> http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com
> http://www.hamiltonstone.org
> http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html
>
>
>
>
>
>> I suspect Angelou makes a lot from her novels, which are in many 
>> public schools.
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>

-- 
Tad Richards
http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/
http://opusforty.blogspot.com/

Don't forget to order your copy of FILM NOIR!
http://stores.lulu.com/store.php?fAcctID=2712239



From jorgensen_a at yahoo.com  Thu Oct 30 04:47:31 2008
From: jorgensen_a at yahoo.com (Jorgensen, Alexander)
Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2008 01:47:31 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [New-Poetry] New Visual Poetry at Otoliths - Alexander Jorgensen -
	Homage to Jack Stauffacher
In-Reply-To: <200810281700.m9SH05nK024529@wiz.cath.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <135645.37002.qm@web50505.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

http://the-otolith.blogspot.com/2008/09/alexander-jorgensen-homage-to-jack.html

Please check take a look-see. It is visual poetry of a different sort - or one hopes!? The intentionality is one of smiles. 

And, too, please check out the rest of Mark Young's wonderfully vital journal - which includes the unstoppable Samit Roy (among others).

Regards,
Alexander Jorgensen
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From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net  Thu Oct 30 07:12:52 2008
From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman)
Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2008 06:12:52 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: "Epidermis," Issue #4
In-Reply-To: <4b65c2d70810291604g702e5543je1620afd4cf575a5@mail.gmail.com>
References: <6f1e9ee40810290708g6a00e08fiacd442f02139a7a2@mail.gmail.com><4b65c2d70810291433q2980cb84j7875115faf4d290b@mail.gmail
	.com><4908F7F9.7000102@nut-n-but.net>
	<4b65c2d70810291604g702e5543je1620afd4cf575a5@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <490996B4.6050203@nut-n-but.net>

Anny Ballardini wrote:
> Bob, they are also part of mycrowdedself youselfishbobwithoutbeing afish
Aah, EVERYbody's YOUR crowd, Anny.

--Bob



From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net  Thu Oct 30 07:19:21 2008
From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman)
Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2008 06:19:21 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetic Justice
In-Reply-To: <236479.69504.qm@web54107.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <236479.69504.qm@web54107.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <49099839.6060607@nut-n-but.net>

John Jeffrey wrote:
> "...a huge number of men in the States who bewail how much 
> professional athletes are paid--yet spend ten percent or more of their 
> lives watching them."
>
> And there's the prize in the Cracker Jack box:  A football player is 
> an entertainer; a nurse is not. And an entertainer's pay is based on 
> the number of people willing to pay to be entertained by them. (Either 
> directly or through the third party.) It's a fairly straight-forward 
> system, but it's cruel--if you cease to draw fans willing to plunk 
> down a twenty, you're out on your helmet.  Because of this, there are 
> no "merely acceptable" football players with long careers. They have 
> to be the best at what they do--even counting arean football, there 
> are only about 100 professional quarterbacks in the country. But there 
> are millions of nurses, and a percentage of them can be "merely 
> acceptable," and yet still have long careers.  Not so with football 
> players, or any entertainers.  Ask the footballer who broke his leg as 
> a rookie, or the singer of a one-hit wonder singer, or a writer like 
> poor Melville.
>
> I would argue that poetry--or any art--is also an entertainment.  And 
> even within the smaller circle of the poetry world, this holds true.  
> The poets that sell the most earn the most money (as little as that 
> may be) while the otherstreams (to borrow a phrase) do not.  Then 
> again, it seems to me that many modern artists seems almost anathema 
> to popularity, even hostile to it.  So why should they be paid for 
> something that a vast majority of the people will not buy?
Because the vast majority of people WILL buy it from the tenth-raters 
with the rights to their work after they're dead.  And because the 
contemporary mediocrities are getting all that's interesting in their 
poetry from them.

>   I'd bet that if otherstream poetry suddenly became popular, and 
> there were rectangles and division symbols on greeting cards, and 
> Hallmark offered salaried positions to otherstream poets, they would 
> all think that they must be doing something wrong.
>
> JohnJ
As they should.  Because the essence of creativity is to do something 
new, and the essence of Hallmark-level commercial success is to repeat 
the worst of the old.

--Bob G.

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From anny.ballardini at gmail.com  Thu Oct 30 06:31:55 2008
From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2008 11:31:55 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetic Justice
In-Reply-To: <49099839.6060607@nut-n-but.net>
References: <236479.69504.qm@web54107.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
	<49099839.6060607@nut-n-but.net>
Message-ID: <4b65c2d70810300331m2181da65lb7aa733edac5b8aa@mail.gmail.com>

Kant, Kirkegaard, Wittgenstein, ...
whom do you remind me this morning Grumman?
He is a German philosopher but cannot remember well ...

On Thu, Oct 30, 2008 at 12:19 PM, Bob Grumman <bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net>wrote:

>  John Jeffrey wrote:
>
>  "...a huge number of men in the States who bewail how much professional
> athletes are paid--yet spend ten percent or more of their lives watching
> them."
>
> And there's the prize in the Cracker Jack box:  A football player is an
> entertainer; a nurse is not. And an entertainer's pay is based on the number
> of people willing to pay to be entertained by them. (Either directly or
> through the third party.) It's a fairly straight-forward system, but it's
> cruel--if you cease to draw fans willing to plunk down a twenty, you're out
> on your helmet.  Because of this, there are no "merely acceptable" football
> players with long careers. They have to be the best at what they do--even
> counting arean football, there are only about 100 professional quarterbacks
> in the country. But there are millions of nurses, and a percentage of them
> can be "merely acceptable," and yet still have long careers.  Not so with
> football players, or any entertainers.  Ask the footballer who broke his leg
> as a rookie, or the singer of a one-hit wonder singer, or a writer like poor
> Melville.
>
> I would argue that poetry--or any art--is also an entertainment.  And even
> within the smaller circle of the poetry world, this holds true.  The poets
> that sell the most earn the most money (as little as that may be) while the
> otherstreams (to borrow a phrase) do not.  Then again, it seems to me that
> many modern artists seems almost anathema to popularity, even hostile to
> it.  So why should they be paid for something that a vast majority of the
> people will not buy?
>
> Because the vast majority of people WILL buy it from the tenth-raters with
> the rights to their work after they're dead.  And because the contemporary
> mediocrities are getting all that's interesting in their poetry from them.
>
>    I'd bet that if otherstream poetry suddenly became popular, and there
> were rectangles and division symbols on greeting cards, and Hallmark offered
> salaried positions to otherstream poets, they would all think that they must
> be doing something wrong.
>
> JohnJ
>
> As they should.  Because the essence of creativity is to do something new,
> and the essence of Hallmark-level commercial success is to repeat the worst
> of the old.
>
> --Bob G.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
>


-- 
Anny Ballardini
http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html
I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing
star!
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From anny.ballardini at gmail.com  Thu Oct 30 06:32:51 2008
From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2008 11:32:51 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: "Epidermis," Issue #4
In-Reply-To: <490996B4.6050203@nut-n-but.net>
References: <6f1e9ee40810290708g6a00e08fiacd442f02139a7a2@mail.gmail.com>
	<4908F7F9.7000102@nut-n-but.net>
	<4b65c2d70810291604g702e5543je1620afd4cf575a5@mail.gmail.com>
	<490996B4.6050203@nut-n-but.net>
Message-ID: <4b65c2d70810300332q406667ccy4ded69c44ebb45ba@mail.gmail.com>

Just call me d'Alambert,

d'Alam for friends,


On Thu, Oct 30, 2008 at 12:12 PM, Bob Grumman <bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net>wrote:

> Anny Ballardini wrote:
>
>> Bob, they are also part of mycrowdedself youselfishbobwithoutbeing afish
>>
> Aah, EVERYbody's YOUR crowd, Anny.
>
> --Bob
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>



-- 
Anny Ballardini
http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html
I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing
star!
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From jjeffreymail at yahoo.com  Thu Oct 30 11:14:55 2008
From: jjeffreymail at yahoo.com (John Jeffrey)
Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2008 08:14:55 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetic Justice
Message-ID: <676762.85739.qm@web54108.mail.re2.yahoo.com>


"Because the essence of creativity is to do something
new, and the essence of Hallmark-level commercial success is to repeat
the worst of the old."

While I concede a bit to this, I'm not quite as...well...as concrete in my view.  I think there are many different hallmarks of creativity.  Doing something that smells old but doing it much better is creative, too, and can almost feel new in its superiority (like Mozart); adding and expanding to the existing and breaking a few rules a long the way is creativity, too (like Beethoven), which may be closer to what you're talking about; but I don't think simply doing something totally new is necessarily creative or good (like the guy I saw once banging the bottom of a flipped over plastic bucket with his foot while playing a guitar that was deliberately (his word) out of tune).  Sometimes that sort of radical creativity is genius, but most times it's just grasping for a difference and it fails.

What struck me most, though, was the cynicism regarding the taste of the majority.  I don't think I'm quite that convinced that the majority doesn't know first-rate from tenth-rate.  (Had you said third- or even fourth-rate, then I might have agreed.)  Is that a common opinion on this group?  Anyone else?

JohnJ






________________________________
From: Bob Grumman <bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net>
To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views" <new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2008 7:19:21 AM
Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Poetic Justice

John Jeffrey wrote: 
"...a huge number of men
in the States who bewail how much
professional athletes are paid--yet spend ten percent or more of
their lives watching them."

And there's the prize in the Cracker Jack box:  A football player is an
entertainer; a nurse is not. And an entertainer's pay is based on the
number of people willing to pay to be entertained by them. (Either
directly or through the third party.) It's a fairly straight-forward
system, but it's cruel--if you cease to draw fans willing to plunk down
a twenty, you're out on your helmet.  Because of this, there are no
"merely acceptable" football players with long careers. They have to be
the best at what they do--even counting arean football, there are only
about 100 professional quarterbacks in the country. But there are
millions of nurses, and a percentage of them can be "merely
acceptable," and yet still have long careers.  Not so with football
players, or any entertainers.  Ask the footballer who broke his leg as
a rookie, or the singer of a one-hit wonder singer, or a writer like
poor Melville.

I would argue that poetry--or any art--is also an entertainment.  And
even within the smaller circle of the poetry world, this holds true. 
The poets that sell the most earn the most money (as little as that may
be) while the otherstreams (to borrow a phrase) do not.  Then again, it
seems to me that many modern artists seems almost anathema to
popularity, even hostile to it.  So why should they be paid for
something that a vast majority of the people will not buy?
Because the vast majority of people WILL buy it from the tenth-raters
with the rights to their work after they're dead.  And because the
contemporary mediocrities are getting all that's interesting in their
poetry from them.


  I'd bet that if otherstream poetry suddenly became popular,
and there were rectangles and division symbols on greeting cards, and
Hallmark offered salaried positions to otherstream poets, they would
all think that they must be doing something wrong.

JohnJ

As they should.  Because the essence of creativity is to do something
new, and the essence of Hallmark-level commercial success is to repeat
the worst of the old.

--Bob G.


      
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From amyhappens at yahoo.com  Thu Oct 30 11:58:14 2008
From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king)
Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2008 08:58:14 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [New-Poetry] Race and Poetry
Message-ID: <492090.93272.qm@web83301.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>



>From PennSound -- Race and Poetry
?
Recorded September 21, 2008 as part of this year's BOOG City Festival, "Race and Poetry: Integrating the Experimental" is a panel discussion organized and moderated by Amy King, featuring Tisa Bryant, Jennifer Firestone, Timothy Liu, Mendi Obadike, Meghan Punschke, Christopher Stackhouse and Mathias Svalina.

The conversation begins with opening statements by King, Svalina, Obadike and Punschke, which are followed by further commentary by King, Firestone and Liu. Liu's comments on the late Reginald Shepherd's take on the marriage of race and aesthetics, and the conjunctions of homoeroticism and race, provoke a round of responses from the panelists, which is followed by comments by Tisa Bryant. From there, the discussion moves into a number of thematic topics, including "the Question of Difference," "Buying into Whiteness," "Destabilizing Whiteness" and "Disfunctioning Color." The hour-and-forty-minute recording concludes with a lengthy question-and-answer period.

http://writing.upenn.edu/pennsound/x/Race-and-Poetry.html
?
http://writing.upenn.edu/pennsound/
?
?
Be well,
?
Amy
_______


Recent work
http://www.writing.upenn.edu/pennsound/x/King.html

Amy's Alias
http://amyking.org/


      
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From anny.ballardini at gmail.com  Thu Oct 30 14:43:13 2008
From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2008 19:43:13 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: New book by Lanny Quarles
In-Reply-To: <6f1e9ee40810300738v22d2cd56j432f011b03b79740@mail.gmail.com>
References: <6f1e9ee40810300738v22d2cd56j432f011b03b79740@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4b65c2d70810301143qd5c3ac5x8ca5bba818ecee8c@mail.gmail.com>

I agree with Seamas Cain!

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: S?amas Cain <seamascain at gmail.com>
Date: Thu, Oct 30, 2008 at 3:38 PM
Subject: New book by Lanny Quarles
To: BRITISH-IRISH-POETS at jiscmail.ac.uk


_______________


There's a wonderful new book by Lanny Quarles!

You will find the ordering information at

http://stores.lulu.com/phanero

Lanny Quarles is an incredible pastry-chef of language,
thought-provoking, effervescent and chaotic.  His riffs and blathers
are amazing to behold!  (Talk about "spontaneity" ... wow!)  But
nevertheless, though very much in the "now" of things, his texts are
still permeated with an actual struggle of philosophic ideas balanced
by a profound knowledge of artistic and literary history.  Indeed,
Quarles is a skillful juggler of the cultural and intellectual issues
of the day.

Invariably, I am quite happy when I read the work of Quarles.  (He
makes me smile.  He makes me laugh.  Even as he makes me think.)

Without hesitation, I recommend the wrytings of Lanny Quarles!

Sincerely,

S?amas Cain
http://alazanto.org/seamascain
http://seamascain.writernetwork.com
http://www.mnartists.org/Seamas_Cain

_______________



-- 
Anny Ballardini
http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html
I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing
star!
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From jforjames at aol.com  Thu Oct 30 15:01:41 2008
From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2008 15:01:41 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] Imlah favored for TS Eliot prize
Message-ID: <8CB08D913E56362-770-4CC@Webmail-mg19.sim.aol.com>


http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2008/oct/30/ts-eliot-prize-mick-imlah


Mick Imlah is the bookies' favourite to add the TS Eliot prize for poetry to the Forward prize he won earlier this month, after his first collection for 20 years made the shortlist for Britain's richest poetry award. If he were to fulfil Ladbrokes's prediction, he would be only the second poet to pull off this "double" and win both of Britain's top poetry awards, following Sean O'Brien's sweep with The Drowned Book last year.


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From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net  Thu Oct 30 19:28:10 2008
From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman)
Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2008 18:28:10 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetic Justice
In-Reply-To: <4b65c2d70810300331m2181da65lb7aa733edac5b8aa@mail.gmail.com>
References: <236479.69504.qm@web54107.mail.re2.yahoo.com><49099839.6060607@nut-n-but.net>
	<4b65c2d70810300331m2181da65lb7aa733edac5b8aa@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <490A430A.90306@nut-n-but.net>

Anny Ballardini wrote:
> Kant, Kirkegaard, Wittgenstein, ...
> whom do you remind me this morning Grumman?
> He is a German philosopher but cannot remember well ...
None of them dimbulbs, I hope.  Ol' Freddy's the only German philosopher 
I like.  Him and Aristotle may be the only philosophers of any 
nationality that I like.

Der Grumann



From jforjames at aol.com  Thu Oct 30 19:29:40 2008
From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2008 19:29:40 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] Ondaatje and the soul of the poet
Message-ID: <8CB08FE8400EC05-EC-8BD@MBLK-M22.sysops.aol.com>



http://www.buffalonews.com/185/story/478592.html


Ondaatje has written five novels. The most recent was ?Divisadero,? published in 2007. He has written 13 books of poetry. 


?I think the way that someone like [poet] William Carlos Williams writes about place and landscape is more believable to me than the way T.S. Elliot writes. Eliot imposes his mind-set on that landscape, and Williams goes into it and kind of discovers [it] . . . ? Ondaatje said. 


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From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net  Thu Oct 30 21:58:08 2008
From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman)
Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2008 20:58:08 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetic Justice
In-Reply-To: <676762.85739.qm@web54108.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <676762.85739.qm@web54108.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <490A6630.8010103@nut-n-but.net>

John Jeffrey wrote:
>
> "Because the essence of creativity is to do something new, and the 
> essence of Hallmark-level commercial success is to repeat the worst of 
> the old."
>
> While I concede a bit to this, I'm not quite as...well...as concrete 
> in my view.  I think there are many different hallmarks of 
> creativity.  Doing something that smells old but doing it much better 
> is creative, too,
I disagree, but the disagreement is probably just semantic.  I think 
doing something old very well can be as good as doing something new, but 
it's not creative.

> and can almost feel new in its superiority (like Mozart); adding and 
> expanding to the existing and breaking a few rules a long the way is 
> creativity, too (like Beethoven), which may be closer to what you're 
> talking about; but I don't think simply doing something totally new is 
> necessarily creative or good.
Never said doing something new was necessarily doing something good or 
creative.  But maybe it is.

For instance, your guy with the plastic bottle and the out-of-tune 
guitar is not doing anything new, except for a trivial detail or two.  
It is not new, and therefore not creative, to play a deliberately 
out-of-tune musical instrument or to "play" some non-instrument, or to 
do both at the same time.  It was new to paint some commercial product 
like Warhol did when it was first done (not by Warhol--Stuart Davis?) 
but not new to paint a different commercial product.  Although Warhol 
may have been original a few times.

Finally, though, what I really mean, and should have said, is that the 
essence of creativity is the significantly new.

> (like the guy I saw once banging the bottom of a flipped over plastic 
> bucket with his foot while playing a guitar that was deliberately (his 
> word) out of tune).  Sometimes that sort of radical creativity is 
> genius, but most times it's just grasping for a difference and it fails.
>
> What struck me most, though, was the cynicism regarding the taste of 
> the majority.  I don't think I'm quite that convinced that the 
> majority doesn't know first-rate from tenth-rate.  (Had you said 
> third- or even fourth-rate, then I might have agreed.)  Is that a 
> common opinion on this group?  Anyone else?
>
I was indulging in polemical hyperbole.  I tend to over-react to attacks 
on my kind of art.  But I think you'll find most New-Poetry people are 
much more on your side than mine on this.

--Bob G.
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From jjeffreymail at yahoo.com  Thu Oct 30 22:58:15 2008
From: jjeffreymail at yahoo.com (John Jeffrey)
Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2008 19:58:15 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetic Justice
Message-ID: <916221.99110.qm@web54108.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

Bob,

I didn't mean to give the impression that I was attacking your kind of art, and I apologize if you felt that.  I only disagree with the definition of creativity.  I wouldn't have the snowballs to attack your fort because, to be honest, I don't understand New Poetry.  I've tried.  I've read it.  I've read theory.  But I get nothing.

And not just the otherstreams, either.  Even the major rivers leave me nodding off on the banks.  A few weeks ago, the Writer's Almanac had one of those yawners that makes me weep at the
state of poetry.  The title was "The Poet Goes to Indiana" (by Mary
Oliver) and the first stanza read:

   I'll tell you a half-dozen things
   that happened to me
   in Indiana
   when I went that far west to teach.
   You tell me if it was worth it.

By
the time I got to the third line I was thinking, What do I care?  And
look at that third line: "In Indiana." In Indiana?  That's worthy of
its own line? a principal unit? a piece of the pie? a lego block? a
thought that adds to the whole?  Bah!  No beauty in the
writing.  No form to flatter.  No images.  No surprises.  Nothing but
chit-chatty broken out by grammatical clauses.  Bah, I say again.

And I'd dismiss is except that it's not atypical.

I
think we're in a poetic bear market.  Those near-empty spaces that you
see if you look at poetry timelines, like the post Milton
dirth.  We're in the dirth after a pretty good early 20th century. 
It's been trending downward since.  (Though I'll admit my tastes are demode.) 

That's one of the reasons I joined this group: to read contemporary poets talking about contemporary poetry.  I thought that maybe some understanding would leap from the emails into my eyes.  But it's slow coming.

John







________________________________
From: Bob Grumman <bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net>
To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views" <new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2008 9:58:08 PM
Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Poetic Justice

John Jeffrey wrote: 

"Because the essence of creativity is to do something
new, and the essence of Hallmark-level commercial success is to repeat
the worst of the old."

While I
concede a bit to this, I'm not quite as...well...as concrete in my
view.  I think there are many different hallmarks of creativity.  Doing
something that smells old but doing it much better is creative, too, 
I disagree, but the disagreement is probably just semantic.  I think
doing something old very well can be as good as doing something new,
but it's not creative.


and can
almost feel new in its superiority (like Mozart); adding and expanding
to the existing and breaking a few rules a long the way is creativity,
too (like Beethoven), which may be closer to what you're talking about;
but I don't think simply doing something totally new is necessarily
creative or good. 
Never said doing something new was necessarily doing something good or
creative.  But maybe it is.

For instance, your guy with the plastic bottle and the out-of-tune
guitar is not doing anything new, except for a trivial detail or two. 
It is not new, and therefore not creative, to play a deliberately
out-of-tune musical instrument or to "play" some non-instrument, or to
do both at the same time.  It was new to paint some commercial product
like Warhol did when it was first done (not by Warhol--Stuart Davis?)
but not new to paint a different commercial product.  Although Warhol
may have been original a few times.

Finally, though, what I really mean, and should have said, is that the
essence of creativity is the significantly new.


(like the
guy I saw once banging the bottom of a flipped over plastic bucket with
his foot while playing a guitar that was deliberately (his word) out of
tune).  Sometimes that sort of radical creativity is genius, but most
times it's just grasping for a difference and it fails.

What struck me most, though, was the cynicism regarding the taste of
the majority.  I don't think I'm quite that convinced that the majority
doesn't know first-rate from tenth-rate.  (Had you said third- or even
fourth-rate, then I might have agreed.)  Is that a common opinion on
this group?  Anyone else?


I was indulging in polemical hyperbole.  I tend to over-react to
attacks on my kind of art.  But I think you'll find most New-Poetry
people are much more on your side than mine on this.

--Bob G.



      
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From jbalizsprince at googlemail.com  Thu Oct 30 23:59:26 2008
From: jbalizsprince at googlemail.com (Judy Prince)
Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2008 20:59:26 -0700
Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetic Justice
In-Reply-To: <490A6630.8010103@nut-n-but.net>
References: <676762.85739.qm@web54108.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
	<490A6630.8010103@nut-n-but.net>
Message-ID: <7db1d01b0810302059q295f412bo8e6d585fcc63c681@mail.gmail.com>

You both, interestingly, may be dealing with two dimensions which most folk,
perhaps unconsciously, regard as essential to creative works, the dimensions
together which are necessary and sufficient hallmarks of creativity:  fresh
and meaningful contexts.

In poetry, it'd be new juxtapositions of things [usually in figures] and
these in insightful habitations.

If the poetry surprises in its figures and/or its forms without [I keep
searching for a word here] a meaningful .... inspired .... deep-felt/thought
foundation, it may strike us as clever, perhaps witty, or even stunning, but
more flashy than memorable.  New ways for us to see things, yes.  But
creative with a capital C?  No.  A sheen, a surface, a magic-work, at best.
Warhol, p'raps Pollack, in fine art.  And then there is the
Breathtaking----a profound unity of new visits.

Judy

2008/10/30 Bob Grumman <bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net>

> John Jeffrey wrote:
>
>
> "Because the essence of creativity is to do something new, and the essence
> of Hallmark-level commercial success is to repeat the worst of the old."
>
> While I concede a bit to this, I'm not quite as...well...as concrete in my
> view.  I think there are many different hallmarks of creativity.  Doing
> something that smells old but doing it much better is creative, too,
>
> I disagree, but the disagreement is probably just semantic.  I think doing
> something old very well can be as good as doing something new, but it's not
> creative.
>
>  and can almost feel new in its superiority (like Mozart); adding and
> expanding to the existing and breaking a few rules a long the way is
> creativity, too (like Beethoven), which may be closer to what you're talking
> about; but I don't think simply doing something totally new is necessarily
> creative or good.
>
> Never said doing something new was necessarily doing something good or
> creative.  But maybe it is.
>
> For instance, your guy with the plastic bottle and the out-of-tune guitar
> is not doing anything new, except for a trivial detail or two.  It is not
> new, and therefore not creative, to play a deliberately out-of-tune musical
> instrument or to "play" some non-instrument, or to do both at the same
> time.  It was new to paint some commercial product like Warhol did when it
> was first done (not by Warhol--Stuart Davis?) but not new to paint a
> different commercial product.  Although Warhol may have been original a few
> times.
>
> Finally, though, what I really mean, and should have said, is that the
> essence of creativity is the significantly new.
>
>  (like the guy I saw once banging the bottom of a flipped over plastic
> bucket with his foot while playing a guitar that was deliberately (his
> word) out of tune).  Sometimes that sort of radical creativity is genius,
> but most times it's just grasping for a difference and it fails.
>
> What struck me most, though, was the cynicism regarding the taste of the
> majority.  I don't think I'm quite that convinced that the majority doesn't
> know first-rate from tenth-rate.  (Had you said third- or even fourth-rate,
> then I might have agreed.)  Is that a common opinion on this group?  Anyone
> else?
>
> I was indulging in polemical hyperbole.  I tend to over-react to attacks on
> my kind of art.  But I think you'll find most New-Poetry people are much
> more on your side than mine on this.
>
> --Bob G.
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
>
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From anny.ballardini at gmail.com  Fri Oct 31 00:20:03 2008
From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2008 05:20:03 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] Ondaatje and the soul of the poet
In-Reply-To: <8CB08FE8400EC05-EC-8BD@MBLK-M22.sysops.aol.com>
References: <8CB08FE8400EC05-EC-8BD@MBLK-M22.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <4b65c2d70810302120i4d84886aqdec4285005ff0b5@mail.gmail.com>

This statement by Ondaatje has much more in it than what it actually says.

On Fri, Oct 31, 2008 at 12:29 AM, <jforjames at aol.com> wrote:

>
> http://www.buffalonews.com/185/story/478592.html
>
> Ondaatje has written five novels. The most recent was "Divisadero,"
> published in 2007. He has written 13 books of poetry.
>
> "I think the way that someone like [poet] William Carlos Williams writes
> about place and landscape is more believable to me than the way T.S. Elliot
> writes. Eliot imposes his mind-set on that landscape, and Williams goes into
> it and kind of discovers [it] . . . " Ondaatje said.
>
>
> ------------------------------
> McCain or Obama? Stay up to date on the latest from the campaign trail with
> AOL News<http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1212075880x1200752631/aol?redir=http://news.aol.com/elections?ncid=emlcntusnews00000001>.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
>


-- 
Anny Ballardini
http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html
I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing
star!
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From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net  Fri Oct 31 07:04:52 2008
From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman)
Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2008 06:04:52 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetic Justice
In-Reply-To: <7db1d01b0810302059q295f412bo8e6d585fcc63c681@mail.gmail.com>
References: <676762.85739.qm@web54108.mail.re2.yahoo.com><490A6630.8010103@nut-n-but.net>
	<7db1d01b0810302059q295f412bo8e6d585fcc63c681@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <490AE653.6040608@nut-n-but.net>

Judy Prince wrote:
> You both, interestingly, may be dealing with two dimensions which most 
> folk, perhaps unconsciously, regard as essential to creative works, 
> the dimensions together which are necessary and sufficient hallmarks 
> of creativity:  fresh and meaningful contexts. 
>  
> In poetry, it'd be new juxtapositions of things [usually in figures] 
> and these in insightful habitations.
I almost fully agree--except that "new juxtapositions of things," for 
me,  is at the lowest level of creativity if one is using standard ways 
of juxtaposition.
>  
> If the poetry surprises in its figures and/or its forms without [I 
> keep searching for a word here] a meaningful .... inspired .... 
> deep-felt/thought foundation, it may strike us as clever, perhaps 
> witty, or even stunning, but more flashy than memorable.  New ways for 
> us to see things, yes.  But creative with a capital C?  No.  A sheen, 
> a surface, a magic-work, at best.  Warhol, p'raps Pollack, in fine 
> art.  And then there is the Breathtaking----a profound unity of new 
> visits.
>  
Exactly--except that if you have any doubt about whether Pollock (the 
spelling of whose name I always have to check before writing it) was 
maximally creative, you don't know anything about visual art.

--Bob G.



From suelin6787 at charter.net  Fri Oct 31 07:10:51 2008
From: suelin6787 at charter.net (Linda Sue Grimes)
Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2008 06:10:51 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetics 
Message-ID: <DB1BC201380E4129823E82B17E87925C@LindaSue>

It seems that some poets who write about what poetry is supposed to do or what their own does or what they think it does are creating their poetics in order to create an audience.   A part of that apologia is that those poets almost always denigrate other poets' works in order to hoist their own.

An example is Robert Bly's "deep image" along with his trashing of Robert Lowell; Bly claims that the image is "natural language of speech" but it "cannot be drawn from or inserted back into the natural world."  His claim motivates the question: is "artificial language of speech" that which "can be drawn from and inserted back into the natural world"?  Or would it be the "artificial" world?  Is a blubstinspludor upon a frile fling "a deep image"?  Can it be stuck back into the natural world?  Why not, even though I just make it up?  But then is it the natural language of speech?   

Are "the quick sharp scratch" or "Grisly, foul, and terrific / is the speech of bones" examples of "natural language of speech"?  Not according to Bly, because they are "drawn from" and also can be "inserted back into the natural world." 

Bly uses Robert Lowell as his target for scorn; quoting Lowell's "For the Union Dead," Bly quotes several passages that he particularly despises, calling them "coarse and ugly," "unimaginative," and then explains that Lowell is counterfeiting, "pretending to be saying passionate things . . . , and the passage means nothing at all." 

Bly also claims, ". . . for American readers are so far from standing at the center of themselves that they can't tell when a man is counterfeiting and when he isn't."  It seems this remark opens Bly up the charge that he may, in fact,  be the counterfeiter.  Because even if he is, his American readers are too dull to be able to discern it.  Thus, he founds a career on a poetics he created solely for that purpose--certainly not in service to poetry and readers--while denigrating Robert Lowell in the process.

Just some thoughts...

respectfully,
lsg

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From suelin6787 at charter.net  Fri Oct 31 07:30:22 2008
From: suelin6787 at charter.net (Linda Sue Grimes)
Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2008 06:30:22 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Ondaatje and the soul of the poet
References: <8CB08FE8400EC05-EC-8BD@MBLK-M22.sysops.aol.com>
	<4b65c2d70810302120i4d84886aqdec4285005ff0b5@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <FF851204877F45608C03053D7001515C@LindaSue>

I would like to hear Ondaatje's examples with explanations for this difference.  My first reaction is yes Eliot certainly does that, but then I don't quite get how Williams "goes into it and kind of discovers it."  

I think of Eliot's patient etherized upon a table describing evening, and think that is certainly a mindset, the mindset of Prufrock, at least.  But then the red wheelbarrow that so much depends upon and green glass between the hospital walls and "Honeysuckle!  And now / there comes the buzzing of a bee!"--don't they also reflect a mindset?  How is it that Williams entered the landscape but Eliot did not?

respectfully,
lsg


  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Anny Ballardini 
  To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &amp,Views 
  Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2008 11:20 PM
  Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Ondaatje and the soul of the poet


  This statement by Ondaatje has much more in it than what it actually says. 


  On Fri, Oct 31, 2008 at 12:29 AM, <jforjames at aol.com> wrote:


    http://www.buffalonews.com/185/story/478592.html

    Ondaatje has written five novels. The most recent was "Divisadero," published in 2007. He has written 13 books of poetry. 

    "I think the way that someone like [poet] William Carlos Williams writes about place and landscape is more believable to me than the way T.S. Elliot writes. Eliot imposes his mind-set on that landscape, and Williams goes into it and kind of discovers [it] . . . " Ondaatje said. 



----------------------------------------------------------------------------
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    _______________________________________________
    New-Poetry mailing list
    New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
    http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry





  -- 
  Anny Ballardini
  http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
  http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
  http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html
  I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! 




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From jbalizsprince at googlemail.com  Fri Oct 31 09:35:31 2008
From: jbalizsprince at googlemail.com (Judy Prince)
Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2008 06:35:31 -0700
Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetics
In-Reply-To: <DB1BC201380E4129823E82B17E87925C@LindaSue>
References: <DB1BC201380E4129823E82B17E87925C@LindaSue>
Message-ID: <7db1d01b0810310635h70d0361aiddb5653736d212b@mail.gmail.com>

Your excellent argument's a mini tour de force, Linda!
Your two conclusions [hypotheses], [the 2 statements comprising the first
'graph], are well-exampled with the 2-Roberts proof.
You make it easy to agree; and---unless you 'stole whole' the argument as
you present it---you're the first to give us a new way to see a pervasive,
apparently negative, process.  And your wisely showing it as an ongoing
repeating technique, a cycle.

No need for me to add my supportive argumentation bits.

But you do make me consider positive aspects---aims and effects---of the
process you describe.  However, now I have to 'help' with awakening
nearly---5 yr old grandboys!

So.....any 'upsides' to the process you describe, Linda?

Relevant note:  females generally chide males for their 'negative'
behaviours, always trying to get them to 'be nice, cooperate'.  Imagine a
female going up to her female friend, punching her in the stomach, and
saying, "Put on some more fat, I see, Jill!"  World War III.  But guy
buddies do it all the time with one a nother.  And they're usually
profoundly [often unwisely, I think] non-judgmental, supportive friends,
whereas females are wary, judgmental folk.

Later, then

Judy

2008/10/31 Linda Sue Grimes <suelin6787 at charter.net>

>  It seems that some poets who write about what poetry is supposed to do or
> what their own does or what they think it does are creating their poetics in
> order to create an audience.   A part of that apologia is that those poets
> almost always denigrate other poets' works in order to hoist their own.
>
> An example is Robert Bly's "deep image" along with his trashing of Robert
> Lowell; Bly claims that the image is "natural language of speech" but it
> "cannot be drawn from or inserted back into the natural world."  His
> claim motivates the question: is "artificial language of speech" that which
> "can be drawn from and inserted back into the natural world"?  Or would it
> be the "artificial" world?  Is a blubstinspludor upon a frile fling "a deep
> image"?  Can it be stuck back into the natural world?  Why not, even though
> I just make it up?  But then is it the natural language of speech?
>
> Are "the quick sharp scratch" or "Grisly, foul, and terrific / is the
> speech of bones" examples of "natural language of speech"?  Not according to
> Bly, because they are "drawn from" and also can be "inserted back into the
> natural world."
>
> Bly uses Robert Lowell as his target for scorn; quoting Lowell's "For the
> Union Dead," Bly quotes several passages that he particularly despises,
> calling them "coarse and ugly," "unimaginative," and then explains that
> Lowell is counterfeiting, "pretending to be saying passionate things . . . ,
> and the passage means nothing at all."
>
> Bly also claims, ". . . for American readers are so far from standing at
> the center of themselves that* they can't tell when a man is
> counterfeiting and when he isn't*."  It seems this remark opens Bly up the
> charge that he may, in fact,  be the counterfeiter.  Because even if he is,
> his American readers are too dull to be able to discern it.  Thus, he founds
> a career on a poetics he created solely for that purpose--certainly not in
> service to poetry and readers--while denigrating Robert Lowell in the
> process.
>
> Just some thoughts...
>
> respectfully,
> lsg
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
>
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From grahamd at ripon.edu  Fri Oct 31 10:07:14 2008
From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham)
Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2008 09:07:14 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Berry on Carruth
Message-ID: <B2BD8254-7211-429B-A4B2-3862FD38C4B7@ripon.edu>

Beautiful essay by Wendell Berry in tribute to Hayden Carruth:

http://www.poets.org/viewmedia.php/prmMID/20428? 
utm_source=poetsupdate_102708&utm_medium=newsletter&utm_campaign=content 
&utm_content=carruth_essay





========================================
David Graham
grahamd at ripon.edu

Home Page:
http://web.mac.com/drjazz

Poetry Library:
http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html
==========================================




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From suelin6787 at charter.net  Fri Oct 31 10:59:10 2008
From: suelin6787 at charter.net (lsg)
Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2008 09:59:10 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetics
References: <DB1BC201380E4129823E82B17E87925C@LindaSue>
	<7db1d01b0810310635h70d0361aiddb5653736d212b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1B2B028C9F224A6585A409AFE9666500@LindaSue>

Judy Prince wrote:
"unless you 'stole whole' the argument as you present it"

>From whom do you suspect I "stole whole" my argument?

lsg
__________________________________________
Blessings,
Linda Sue Grimes
Feature Writer for Poetry 
http://poetry.suite101.com
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Judy Prince 
  To: Linda Sue Grimes ; NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &amp, Views 
  Sent: Friday, October 31, 2008 8:35 AM
  Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Poetics


  Your excellent argument's a mini tour de force, Linda!


  Your two conclusions [hypotheses], [the 2 statements comprising the first 'graph], are well-exampled with the 2-Roberts proof.
  You make it easy to agree; and---unless you 'stole whole' the argument as you present it---you're the first to give us a new way to see a pervasive, apparently negative, process.  And your wisely showing it as an ongoing repeating technique, a cycle.


  No need for me to add my supportive argumentation bits.


  But you do make me consider positive aspects---aims and effects---of the process you describe.  However, now I have to 'help' with awakening nearly---5 yr old grandboys!


  So.....any 'upsides' to the process you describe, Linda?


  Relevant note:  females generally chide males for their 'negative' behaviours, always trying to get them to 'be nice, cooperate'.  Imagine a female going up to her female friend, punching her in the stomach, and saying, "Put on some more fat, I see, Jill!"  World War III.  But guy buddies do it all the time with one a nother.  And they're usually profoundly [often unwisely, I think] non-judgmental, supportive friends, whereas females are wary, judgmental folk.  


  Later, then


  Judy


  2008/10/31 Linda Sue Grimes <suelin6787 at charter.net>

    It seems that some poets who write about what poetry is supposed to do or what their own does or what they think it does are creating their poetics in order to create an audience.   A part of that apologia is that those poets almost always denigrate other poets' works in order to hoist their own.

    An example is Robert Bly's "deep image" along with his trashing of Robert Lowell; Bly claims that the image is "natural language of speech" but it "cannot be drawn from or inserted back into the natural world."  His claim motivates the question: is "artificial language of speech" that which "can be drawn from and inserted back into the natural world"?  Or would it be the "artificial" world?  Is a blubstinspludor upon a frile fling "a deep image"?  Can it be stuck back into the natural world?  Why not, even though I just make it up?  But then is it the natural language of speech?   

    Are "the quick sharp scratch" or "Grisly, foul, and terrific / is the speech of bones" examples of "natural language of speech"?  Not according to Bly, because they are "drawn from" and also can be "inserted back into the natural world." 

    Bly uses Robert Lowell as his target for scorn; quoting Lowell's "For the Union Dead," Bly quotes several passages that he particularly despises, calling them "coarse and ugly," "unimaginative," and then explains that Lowell is counterfeiting, "pretending to be saying passionate things . . . , and the passage means nothing at all." 

    Bly also claims, ". . . for American readers are so far from standing at the center of themselves that they can't tell when a man is counterfeiting and when he isn't."  It seems this remark opens Bly up the charge that he may, in fact,  be the counterfeiter.  Because even if he is, his American readers are too dull to be able to discern it.  Thus, he founds a career on a poetics he created solely for that purpose--certainly not in service to poetry and readers--while denigrating Robert Lowell in the process.

    Just some thoughts...

    respectfully,
    lsg



    _______________________________________________
    New-Poetry mailing list
    New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
    http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry



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From anny.ballardini at gmail.com  Fri Oct 31 11:08:31 2008
From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2008 16:08:31 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] Otoliths !
Message-ID: <4b65c2d70810310808h74d3ef50p3f885ad5c52caee4@mail.gmail.com>

Issue eleven, the southern autumn, 2008 issue of
Otoliths<http://the-otolith.blogspot.com/>,
has just gone live. As usual, the contents are wide-ranging. There are text
& visual poems, photographs, paintings, & a variety of prose pieces. There's
even an essay on otoliths.



The contributors to this issue are Anny Ballardini, Michael Aanji Crowley,
Sheila E. Murphy, Sheila E. Murphy & John M. Bennett, Eileen R. Tabios,
Marcia Arrieta, dan raphael, Philip Byron Oakes, Michael S. Begnal, Halvard
Johnson, Peter Ciccariello, Naomi Buck Palagi, Aaron Crippen, Raymond Farr,
John Martone, Jeff Harrison, Andrew Topel, Felino Soriano, Reed Altemus,
Iain Britton, Bill Drennan, Charles Freeland, J. D. Nelson, Mary Ellen
Derwis, Joe Balaz & Mary Ellen Derwis, Alexander Jorgensen, Craig Rebele,
Gregory Braquet, Marilyn R. Rosenberg, Michele Leggott, Martin Edmond,
Angela Genusa, Bobbi Lurie, Charles Mahafee, Spencer Selby, Thomas Fink,
Thomas Fink & Maya Diablo Mason, Cara Benson, harry k stammer, Samit Roy,
Geof Huth, Stephen Nelson, Jaie Miller, Paul Siegell, Dorothee Lang, Stephen
C. Middleton, Vernon  Frazer, Tom Beckett, John Moore Williams, Elizabeth
Kate Switaj, Manas Bhattacharya, David-Baptiste Chirot, sean burn, Scott
Helmes & John M. Bennett, John M. Bennett & various collaborators, John M.
Bennett, Doug White, Steve Wing, Julian Jason Haladyn, Zev Jonas, & Robert
Gauldie.


The two print parts of Otoliths ten should be available within the next week
from The Otoliths Storefront (http://stores.lulu.com/l_m_young), & the first
eight parts?issues 1-4, parts one & two of each?are now also available from
there as low-cost downloads.

Mark Young




-- 
Anny Ballardini
http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html
I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing
star!
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From grahamd at ripon.edu  Fri Oct 31 11:18:01 2008
From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham)
Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2008 10:18:01 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Poetics 
In-Reply-To: <DB1BC201380E4129823E82B17E87925C@LindaSue>
References: <DB1BC201380E4129823E82B17E87925C@LindaSue>
Message-ID: <4515AE52-7DC3-478F-AE61-94D1788E5DA2@ripon.edu>

The idea that poets tend to denigrate the work of other, often older  
poets in order to clear a space for their own work is a very old  
one.  Bly would certainly be guilty of that crime, if crime it is,  
but he's just one face in a teeming crowd going back centuries.   
Among other things, when setting forth in his career he was reacting  
to the Agrarians and the New Critics, who in the 1940s and 1950s had  
a real stranglehold on American mainstream poetry.  Lowell was, of  
course, a very big and very tempting target.

Bly's efforts were bumptious, unfair, often brilliantly funny, and in  
my view generally welcome.  He was on a different track but generally  
in sync with the New York School and The Beats in stirring up the mud  
puddle.  All power to him.  In my opinion, he helped open up the  
mainstream to any number of good ideas, not just foolish ones.

Soon enough others came along to throw cold water on what Bly was  
doing, and his brand of poetry fell largely out of favor.  Not much  
news here.  And the painted ponies go up and down. . . .


========================================
David Graham
grahamd at ripon.edu

Home Page:
http://web.mac.com/drjazz

Poetry Library:
http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html
==========================================




On Oct 31, 2008, at 6:10 AM, Linda Sue Grimes wrote:

> It seems that some poets who write about what poetry is supposed to  
> do or what their own does or what they think it does are creating  
> their poetics in order to create an audience.   A part of that  
> apologia is that those poets almost always denigrate other poets'  
> works in order to hoist their own.
>
> An example is Robert Bly's "deep image" along with his trashing of  
> Robert Lowell; Bly claims that the image is ?natural language of  
> speech? but it ?cannot be drawn from or inserted back into the  
> natural world.?  His claim motivates the question: is "artificial  
> language of speech" that which "can be drawn from and inserted back  
> into the natural world"?  Or would it be the "artificial" world?   
> Is a blubstinspludor upon a frile fling "a deep image"?  Can it be  
> stuck back into the natural world?  Why not, even though I just  
> make it up?  But then is it the natural language of speech?
>
> Are "the quick sharp scratch" or ?Grisly, foul, and terrific / is  
> the speech of bones? examples of "natural language of speech"?  Not  
> according to Bly, because they are "drawn from" and also can be  
> "inserted back into the natural world."
>
> Bly uses Robert Lowell as his target for scorn; quoting Lowell's  
> "For the Union Dead," Bly quotes several passages that he  
> particularly despises, calling them ?coarse and ugly,?  
> ?unimaginative,? and then explains that Lowell is counterfeiting,  
> ?pretending to be saying passionate things . . . , and the passage  
> means nothing at all.?
>
> Bly also claims, ?. . . for American readers are so far from  
> standing at the center of themselves that they can?t tell when a  
> man is counterfeiting and when he isn?t.?  It seems this remark  
> opens Bly up the charge that he may, in fact,  be the  
> counterfeiter.  Because even if he is, his American readers are too  
> dull to be able to discern it.  Thus, he founds a career on a  
> poetics he created solely for that purpose--certainly not in  
> service to poetry and readers--while denigrating Robert Lowell in  
> the process.
>
> Just some thoughts...
>
> respectfully,
> lsg
>
>
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From halvard at earthlink.net  Fri Oct 31 11:31:48 2008
From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson)
Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2008 09:31:48 -0600
Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetics 
In-Reply-To: <DB1BC201380E4129823E82B17E87925C@LindaSue>
References: <DB1BC201380E4129823E82B17E87925C@LindaSue>
Message-ID: <8E124DA9-1E42-4C5F-9169-371B9B714786@earthlink.net>

Seems to me that Robert Bly is/was one of those true believers who never
found (for long) what he really wanted to believe in. Thus, he passed  
from
one enthusiasm to another (and his "denigration" of Lowell and others)  
was
part and parcel of his moving on from one thing to another. Check out
Robert Bly's work before he was the Robert Bly we've come to know. It's
back there in the Hall/Pack anthologies.

Arthur Koestler always seemed to me to be another such "true believer,"
but in the spheres of politics and philosophy.

There are those who can move along without trashing all they leave  
behind.

Hal

McCain / Palin -- Just say thanks but no thanks.
They're a bridge to nowhere.

Halvard Johnson
================
halvard at earthlink.net
halvard at gmail.com
http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html
http://entropyandme.blogspot.com
http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com
http://www.hamiltonstone.org
http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html



On Oct 31, 2008, at 5:10 AM, Linda Sue Grimes wrote:

> It seems that some poets who write about what poetry is supposed to  
> do or what their own does or what they think it does are creating  
> their poetics in order to create an audience.   A part of that  
> apologia is that those poets almost always denigrate other poets'  
> works in order to hoist their own.
>
> An example is Robert Bly's "deep image" along with his trashing of  
> Robert Lowell; Bly claims that the image is ?natural language of  
> speech? but it ?cannot be drawn from or inserted back into the  
> natural world.?  His claim motivates the question: is "artificial  
> language of speech" that which "can be drawn from and inserted back  
> into the natural world"?  Or would it be the "artificial" world?  Is  
> a blubstinspludor upon a frile fling "a deep image"?  Can it be  
> stuck back into the natural world?  Why not, even though I just make  
> it up?  But then is it the natural language of speech?
>
> Are "the quick sharp scratch" or ?Grisly, foul, and terrific / is  
> the speech of bones? examples of "natural language of speech"?  Not  
> according to Bly, because they are "drawn from" and also can be  
> "inserted back into the natural world."
>
> Bly uses Robert Lowell as his target for scorn; quoting Lowell's  
> "For the Union Dead," Bly quotes several passages that he  
> particularly despises, calling them ?coarse and ugly,?  
> ?unimaginative,? and then explains that Lowell is counterfeiting,  
> ?pretending to be saying passionate things . . . , and the passage  
> means nothing at all.?
>
> Bly also claims, ?. . . for American readers are so far from  
> standing at the center of themselves that they can?t tell when a man  
> is counterfeiting and when he isn?t.?  It seems this remark opens  
> Bly up the charge that he may, in fact,  be the counterfeiter.   
> Because even if he is, his American readers are too dull to be able  
> to discern it.  Thus, he founds a career on a poetics he created  
> solely for that purpose--certainly not in service to poetry and  
> readers--while denigrating Robert Lowell in the process.
>
> Just some thoughts...
>
> respectfully,
> lsg
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry

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From anny.ballardini at gmail.com  Fri Oct 31 12:38:11 2008
From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2008 17:38:11 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] Ondaatje and the soul of the poet
In-Reply-To: <FF851204877F45608C03053D7001515C@LindaSue>
References: <8CB08FE8400EC05-EC-8BD@MBLK-M22.sysops.aol.com>
	<4b65c2d70810302120i4d84886aqdec4285005ff0b5@mail.gmail.com>
	<FF851204877F45608C03053D7001515C@LindaSue>
Message-ID: <4b65c2d70810310938j40d812ccyff33e77aef66c1c7@mail.gmail.com>

The way I see it, and as far as I know, I can talk of both Williams and
Eliot with reference to Pound, Williams is opposed to Pound - at least that
is the way he proudly shaped himself, and Eliot would have been no one
without Pound. We are facing again two sides of the same coin, still two
very distinct sides.
Also, in the case of Eliot, one should trace his own outline, still
different from Pound by whom he was created.

I might not be clear, I am full of analgesics - just back from the dentist.

On Fri, Oct 31, 2008 at 12:30 PM, Linda Sue Grimes
<suelin6787 at charter.net>wrote:

>  I would like to hear Ondaatje's examples with explanations for this
> difference.  My first reaction is yes Eliot certainly does that, but then I
> don't quite get how Williams "goes into it and kind of discovers it."
>
> I think of Eliot's patient etherized upon a table describing evening, and
> think that is certainly a mindset, the mindset of Prufrock, at least.  But
> then the red wheelbarrow that so much depends upon and green glass between
> the hospital walls and "Honeysuckle!  And now / there comes the buzzing of
> a bee!"--don't they also reflect a mindset?  How is it that Williams
> entered the landscape but Eliot did not?
>
> respectfully,
> lsg
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* Anny Ballardini <anny.ballardini at gmail.com>
> *To:* NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &amp,Views<new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
> *Sent:* Thursday, October 30, 2008 11:20 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [New-Poetry] Ondaatje and the soul of the poet
>
> This statement by Ondaatje has much more in it than what it actually says.
>
> On Fri, Oct 31, 2008 at 12:29 AM, <jforjames at aol.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> http://www.buffalonews.com/185/story/478592.html
>>
>> Ondaatje has written five novels. The most recent was "Divisadero,"
>> published in 2007. He has written 13 books of poetry.
>>
>> "I think the way that someone like [poet] William Carlos Williams writes
>> about place and landscape is more believable to me than the way T.S. Elliot
>> writes. Eliot imposes his mind-set on that landscape, and Williams goes into
>> it and kind of discovers [it] . . . " Ondaatje said.
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>> McCain or Obama? Stay up to date on the latest from the campaign trail
>> with AOL News<http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1212075880x1200752631/aol?redir=http://news.aol.com/elections?ncid=emlcntusnews00000001>.
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> New-Poetry mailing list
>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Anny Ballardini
> http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
> http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
> http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html
> I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing
> star!
>
>  ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
>


-- 
Anny Ballardini
http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html
I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing
star!
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From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net  Fri Oct 31 13:53:59 2008
From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman)
Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2008 12:53:59 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetics
In-Reply-To: <DB1BC201380E4129823E82B17E87925C@LindaSue>
References: <DB1BC201380E4129823E82B17E87925C@LindaSue>
Message-ID: <490B4637.3090900@nut-n-but.net>

Linda Sue Grimes wrote:
> It seems that some poets who write about what poetry is supposed to do 
> or what their own does or what they think it does are creating their 
> poetics in order to create an audience.   A part of that apologia is 
> that those poets almost always denigrate other poets' works in order 
> to hoist their own.
>  
> An example is Robert Bly's "deep image" along with his trashing of 
> Robert Lowell; Bly claims that the image is "natural language of 
> speech" but it "cannot be drawn from or inserted back into the natural 
> world."
I like some of Bly's poems but don't think much of him as a thinker.  
What examples of deep images does he give?  Sounds to me like images 
that qualify as deep are images he likes, those that don't qualify are 
images he doesn't like.

Does he present a rigorous definition of "deep image?"  I have an idea 
of it as simply an image with a strong archetypal resonance--i.e., it 
connects to deep human concerns like life and death, the change of 
seasons, reproduction.

> His claim motivates the question: is "artificial language of speech" 
> that which "can be drawn from and inserted back into the natural 
> world"?  Or would it be the "artificial" world?  Is a blubstinspludor 
> upon a frile fling "a deep image"?  Can it be stuck back into the 
> natural world?  Why not, even though I just make it up?  But then is 
> it the natural language of speech? 
Good questions.  What can't be re-inserted into the natural world?

>  
> Are "the quick sharp scratch" or "Grisly, foul, and terrific / is the 
> speech of bones" examples of "natural language of speech"?  Not 
> according to Bly, because they are "drawn from" and also can be 
> "inserted back into the natural world." 
Even if this were true, so what?  Why can't they be of value, anyway.  I 
like "the speech of bones" and would call it as good an image as any, 
whether "deep" or "shallow."
>  
> Bly uses Robert Lowell as his target for scorn; quoting Lowell's "For 
> the Union Dead," Bly quotes several passages that he particularly 
> despises, calling them "coarse and ugly," "unimaginative," and then 
> explains that Lowell is counterfeiting, "pretending to be saying 
> passionate things . . . , and the passage means nothing at all." 
>  
> Bly also claims, ". . . for American readers are so far from standing 
> at the center of themselves that/ they can't tell when a man is 
> counterfeiting and when he isn't/."  It seems this remark opens Bly up 
> the charge that he may, in fact,  be the counterfeiter.  Because even 
> if he is, his American readers are too dull to be able to discern it.  
> Thus, he founds a career on a poetics he created solely for that 
> purpose--certainly not in service to poetry and readers--while 
> denigrating Robert Lowell in the process.
>  
I think Lowell over-rated in his lifetime and under-rated now.  I'd put 
him in the second rank of American poets.  Maybe Bly is there, too, but 
he may only be in the third rank.  He certainly isn't up with Pound, 
Cummings, Roethke, Stevens and the other known poets I consider in the 
first rank of American Poets.  I don't think either Lowell or Bly was 
"counterfeiting," unless all poets do that. 

Just some thoughts back at you, LS.

--Bob
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From halvard at earthlink.net  Fri Oct 31 13:04:07 2008
From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson)
Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2008 11:04:07 -0600
Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetics
In-Reply-To: <490B4637.3090900@nut-n-but.net>
References: <DB1BC201380E4129823E82B17E87925C@LindaSue>
	<490B4637.3090900@nut-n-but.net>
Message-ID: <3367A153-F88F-4A6C-8B71-CF655FDBFB3D@earthlink.net>

The term "deep image," I believe, was intended to resonate with
the Spanish "canto hondo."

More here:

http://books.google.com/books?id=XxXsPIvHKUUC&pg=PA16&lpg=PA16&dq=%22deep+image%22+%22canto+hondo%22&source=bl&ots=GeWvjn7C0J&sig=sP-GIcumHsgIFjye0io7O4I_X7Q&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=1&ct=result#PPA15,M1


McCain / Palin -- Just say thanks but no thanks.
They're a bridge to nowhere.

Halvard Johnson
================
halvard at earthlink.net
halvard at gmail.com
http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html
http://entropyandme.blogspot.com
http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com
http://www.hamiltonstone.org
http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html



On Oct 31, 2008, at 11:53 AM, Bob Grumman wrote:

> Linda Sue Grimes wrote:
>>
>> It seems that some poets who write about what poetry is supposed to  
>> do or what their own does or what they think it does are creating  
>> their poetics in order to create an audience.   A part of that  
>> apologia is that those poets almost always denigrate other poets'  
>> works in order to hoist their own.
>>
>> An example is Robert Bly's "deep image" along with his trashing of  
>> Robert Lowell; Bly claims that the image is ?natural language of  
>> speech? but it ?cannot be drawn from or inserted back into the  
>> natural world.?
> I like some of Bly's poems but don't think much of him as a  
> thinker.  What examples of deep images does he give?  Sounds to me  
> like images that qualify as deep are images he likes, those that  
> don't qualify are images he doesn't like.
>
> Does he present a rigorous definition of "deep image?"  I have an  
> idea of it as simply an image with a strong archetypal resonance-- 
> i.e., it connects to deep human concerns like life and death, the  
> change of seasons, reproduction.
>
>> His claim motivates the question: is "artificial language of  
>> speech" that which "can be drawn from and inserted back into the  
>> natural world"?  Or would it be the "artificial" world?  Is a  
>> blubstinspludor upon a frile fling "a deep image"?  Can it be stuck  
>> back into the natural world?  Why not, even though I just make it  
>> up?  But then is it the natural language of speech?
> Good questions.  What can't be re-inserted into the natural world?
>
>>
>> Are "the quick sharp scratch" or ?Grisly, foul, and terrific / is  
>> the speech of bones? examples of "natural language of speech"?  Not  
>> according to Bly, because they are "drawn from" and also can be  
>> "inserted back into the natural world."
> Even if this were true, so what?  Why can't they be of value,  
> anyway.  I like "the speech of bones" and would call it as good an  
> image as any, whether "deep" or "shallow."
>>
>> Bly uses Robert Lowell as his target for scorn; quoting Lowell's  
>> "For the Union Dead," Bly quotes several passages that he  
>> particularly despises, calling them ?coarse and ugly,?  
>> ?unimaginative,? and then explains that Lowell is counterfeiting,  
>> ?pretending to be saying passionate things . . . , and the passage  
>> means nothing at all.?
>>
>> Bly also claims, ?. . . for American readers are so far from  
>> standing at the center of themselves that they can?t tell when a  
>> man is counterfeiting and when he isn?t.? It seems this remark  
>> opens Bly up the charge that he may, in fact,  be the  
>> counterfeiter.  Because even if he is, his American readers are too  
>> dull to be able to discern it.  Thus, he founds a career on a  
>> poetics he created solely for that purpose--certainly not in  
>> service to poetry and readers--while denigrating Robert Lowell in  
>> the process.
>>
> I think Lowell over-rated in his lifetime and under-rated now.  I'd  
> put him in the second rank of American poets.  Maybe Bly is there,  
> too, but he may only be in the third rank.  He certainly isn't up  
> with Pound, Cummings, Roethke, Stevens and the other known poets I  
> consider in the first rank of American Poets.  I don't think either  
> Lowell or Bly was "counterfeiting," unless all poets do that.
>
> Just some thoughts back at you, LS.
>
> --Bob
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry

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From robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com  Fri Oct 31 12:59:30 2008
From: robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com (Robin Hamilton)
Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2008 16:59:30 -0000
Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetics
In-Reply-To: <490B4637.3090900@nut-n-but.net>
References: <DB1BC201380E4129823E82B17E87925C@LindaSue>
	<490B4637.3090900@nut-n-but.net>
Message-ID: <D8A1491358EC47ED923962388631435F@RobinPC>

<<
I think Lowell over-rated in his lifetime and under-rated now. 
>>

Where would you place John Berryman with respect to Lowell, Bob?

Since sometime in the sixties, admittedly looking at it from the wrong side of the Pond, it has seemed to me that in almost every way, Berryman does everything that Lowell does, but does it better.

But Lowell is easier to read and more accessible, therefore more popular.

Robin
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From grahamd at ripon.edu  Fri Oct 31 13:21:00 2008
From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham)
Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2008 12:21:00 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetics & Bly
In-Reply-To: <3367A153-F88F-4A6C-8B71-CF655FDBFB3D@earthlink.net>
References: <DB1BC201380E4129823E82B17E87925C@LindaSue>
	<490B4637.3090900@nut-n-but.net>
	<3367A153-F88F-4A6C-8B71-CF655FDBFB3D@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <2E946198-00F7-48C4-8D65-2E220F9B90AC@ripon.edu>

Here is a fairly detailed history of the term "deep image" with  
regard to Bly:

http://ebbs.english.vt.edu/olp/gs/1.2/bushell.html

Robert Kelly coined the phrase originally.  Bly's own poetics has  
shown a good deal of consistency over the years, as I see it,  
following his apprenticeship pieces noted by Hal Johnson.  He's  
essentially a religious mystic, Jungian variety, and all his  
disparate concepts and mini-movements have circled around an anti- 
rationalism that is deeply Romantic.  Thus his attraction to the  
surrealists, Neruda, Lorca, Rilke, and so forth.  Whether his subject  
is political or pastoral, he's a Romantic.

The best overall summary of Bly's thinking that I know of is probably  
his anthology *News of the Universe*, which presents (in addition to  
many fine poems) his own typically loopy, infuriating, partial, and  
often brilliant literary history.  The enemy, as always, is sober  
rationalism; the poets and poems he praises are characteristically  
"inward," intuitive, associational, mythic--in short, Romantic.

I've always thought Bly's best work was probably his editing.  His  
theories fully satisfy very few for long, including himself, but he's  
got a stunningly good eye.  His selected editions of Stafford and  
Ignatow, for instance, are the best we have.  And his translations,  
often derided by people who actually speak the languages from which  
he translates, have nonetheless introduced a lot of Americans to a  
lot of good international poets.


========================================
David Graham
grahamd at ripon.edu

Home Page:
http://web.mac.com/drjazz

Poetry Library:
http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html
==========================================




On Oct 31, 2008, at 12:04 PM, Halvard Johnson wrote:

> The term "deep image," I believe, was intended to resonate with
> the Spanish "canto hondo."
>
> More here:
>
> http://books.google.com/books?id=XxXsPIvHKUUC&pg=PA16&lpg=PA16&dq=% 
> 22deep+image%22+%22canto+hondo%22&source=bl&ots=GeWvjn7C0J&sig=sP- 
> GIcumHsgIFjye0io7O4I_X7Q&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=1&ct=result# 
> PPA15,M1
>
>
> McCain / Palin -- Just say thanks but no thanks.
> They're a bridge to nowhere.
>
> Halvard Johnson
> ================
> halvard at earthlink.net
> halvard at gmail.com
> http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html
> http://entropyandme.blogspot.com
> http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com
> http://www.hamiltonstone.org
> http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html
>
>
>
> On Oct 31, 2008, at 11:53 AM, Bob Grumman wrote:
>
>> Linda Sue Grimes wrote:
>>>
>>> It seems that some poets who write about what poetry is supposed  
>>> to do or what their own does or what they think it does are  
>>> creating their poetics in order to create an audience.   A part  
>>> of that apologia is that those poets almost always denigrate  
>>> other poets' works in order to hoist their own.
>>>
>>> An example is Robert Bly's "deep image" along with his trashing  
>>> of Robert Lowell; Bly claims that the image is ?natural language  
>>> of speech? but it ?cannot be drawn from or inserted back into the  
>>> natural world.?
>> I like some of Bly's poems but don't think much of him as a  
>> thinker.  What examples of deep images does he give?  Sounds to me  
>> like images that qualify as deep are images he likes, those that  
>> don't qualify are images he doesn't like.
>>
>> Does he present a rigorous definition of "deep image?"  I have an  
>> idea of it as simply an image with a strong archetypal resonance-- 
>> i.e., it connects to deep human concerns like life and death, the  
>> change of seasons, reproduction.
>>
>>> His claim motivates the question: is "artificial language of  
>>> speech" that which "can be drawn from and inserted back into the  
>>> natural world"?  Or would it be the "artificial" world?  Is a  
>>> blubstinspludor upon a frile fling "a deep image"?  Can it be  
>>> stuck back into the natural world?  Why not, even though I just  
>>> make it up?  But then is it the natural language of speech?
>> Good questions.  What can't be re-inserted into the natural world?
>>
>>>
>>> Are "the quick sharp scratch" or ?Grisly, foul, and terrific / is  
>>> the speech of bones? examples of "natural language of speech"?   
>>> Not according to Bly, because they are "drawn from" and also can  
>>> be "inserted back into the natural world."
>> Even if this were true, so what?  Why can't they be of value,  
>> anyway.  I like "the speech of bones" and would call it as good an  
>> image as any, whether "deep" or "shallow."
>>>
>>> Bly uses Robert Lowell as his target for scorn; quoting Lowell's  
>>> "For the Union Dead," Bly quotes several passages that he  
>>> particularly despises, calling them ?coarse and ugly,?  
>>> ?unimaginative,? and then explains that Lowell is counterfeiting,  
>>> ?pretending to be saying passionate things . . . , and the  
>>> passage means nothing at all.?
>>>
>>> Bly also claims, ?. . . for American readers are so far from  
>>> standing at the center of themselves that they can?t tell when a  
>>> man is counterfeiting and when he isn?t.? It seems this remark  
>>> opens Bly up the charge that he may, in fact,  be the  
>>> counterfeiter.  Because even if he is, his American readers are  
>>> too dull to be able to discern it.  Thus, he founds a career on a  
>>> poetics he created solely for that purpose--certainly not in  
>>> service to poetry and readers--while denigrating Robert Lowell in  
>>> the process.
>>>
>> I think Lowell over-rated in his lifetime and under-rated now.   
>> I'd put him in the second rank of American poets.  Maybe Bly is  
>> there, too, but he may only be in the third rank.  He certainly  
>> isn't up with Pound, Cummings, Roethke, Stevens and the other  
>> known poets I consider in the first rank of American Poets.  I  
>> don't think either Lowell or Bly was "counterfeiting," unless all  
>> poets do that.
>>
>> Just some thoughts back at you, LS.
>>
>> --Bob
>> _______________________________________________
>> New-Poetry mailing list
>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry

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From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net  Fri Oct 31 14:27:39 2008
From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman)
Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2008 13:27:39 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetic Justice
In-Reply-To: <916221.99110.qm@web54108.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <916221.99110.qm@web54108.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <490B4E1B.2080900@nut-n-but.net>

John Jeffrey wrote:
> Bob,
>
> I didn't mean to give the impression that I was attacking your kind of 
> art, and I apologize if you felt that.  I only disagree with the 
> definition of creativity.  I wouldn't have the snowballs to attack 
> your fort because, to be honest, I don't understand New Poetry.  I've 
> tried.  I've read it.  I've read theory.  But I get nothing.
>
You may simply not have the right genes.  No big deal.  Some can't make 
anything of calculus.  I can't make anything of string theory.  (In 
fact, like Philistines sneering at abstract-expressionism or visual 
poetry or language poetry, I tend to think it's incoherent nonsense.)  I 
also fail to appreciate most of Gertrude Stein's work, though I think 
she was important for path-breaking that others have followed through on 
to better effect.

> And not just the otherstreams, either.  Even the major rivers leave me 
> nodding off on the banks.  A few weeks ago, the Writer's Almanac had 
> one of those yawners that makes me weep at the state of poetry.  The 
> title was "The Poet Goes to Indiana" (by Mary Oliver) and the first 
> stanza read:
>
>    I'll tell you a half-dozen things
>    that happened to me
>    in Indiana
>    when I went that far west to teach.
>    You tell me if it was worth it.
>
> By the time I got to the third line I was thinking, What do I care?  
> And look at that third line: "In Indiana."  In Indiana?  That's worthy 
> of its own line? a principal unit? a piece of the pie? a lego block? a 
> thought that adds to the whole?  Bah!  No beauty in the writing.  No 
> form to flatter.  No images.  No surprises.  Nothing but chit-chatty 
> broken out by grammatical clauses.  Bah, I say again.
>
It's what I call Iowa Plaintext Lyric Poetry  (I think--I've given it 
more than one name).  Nothing wrong with it, it's just been standard for 
too long for it to be possible to be creative in it--though I've done it 
on occasion.   To defend  this instance of it,  I have to say you're 
being completely unfair.  First off,  you  have to give the thing time.  
I don't know the poem, but maybe Oliver is artfully setting her scene, 
building a dullness  to make what she'll lead us to  all the more 
joltingly appealing.  The lineation tells us we're experiencing a poem, 
so we should concentrate, be open-minded, activate all our senses.  It 
also forces us to slow down so we'll have a better chance of full 
appreciation of whatever genuine poetry we're to eventually reach.  
(Which, I'd admit, I didn't reach in Williams famous refrigerator poem.) 

The Indiana line is especially short, so especially non-prose--but it 
does set up the next line somewhat cleverly, that line speaking of "far 
west," and  taking a long time to get to compared with how quickly we 
get to Indiana in the preceding line.  A little joke--Indiana is not 
very far west.
> And I'd dismiss is except that it's not atypical.
Again, I don't see how you can properly give a poem just five lines to 
appeal to you. 

> I think we're in a poetic bear market.  Those near-empty spaces that 
> you see if you look at poetry timelines, like the post Milton dirth.  
> We're in the dirth after a pretty good early 20th century.  It's been 
> trending downward since.  (Though I'll admit my tastes are demode.)
Now you are attacking me and my pals' late twentieth-century poetry, 
John--though it's kind of you to imply you  may be the one at fault.  I 
would agree that mainstream American poetry since the last group of 
poets everyone agrees were major (Frost, Eliot, Pound, Stevens, 
Williams) has dropped off a bit.  Some in the next generation like 
Roethke I consider equal to the ones I just named, but there were not as 
many of them.  The next generation has no one with them in the 
mainstream, just poets doing the same kind of stuff Frost, Eliot, Pound, 
Stevens and Williams did.  But the last third of the twentieth century 
has something perhaps unique in American poetry, now that I think of it: 
otherstream poetry by more than a scattered eccentric or two like 
Whitman.  There's language poetry, which all poetry engagents must come 
to terms with--and seemingly are, as it now has seats in the Academy of 
American Poets, and gets work into the Best American Poetry series, 
etc.  There's visual poetry, which has been around longer than language 
poetry and remains otherstream, but made it into the latest issue of 
Poetry magazine.  There're all kinds of cyber-poetry I can't say much 
about, as I sink behind the times, myself.  There's sound poetry.  
There's even my specialty, mathematical, practiced by probably no more 
than a dozen Americans but getting into schools via Betsy Franco's 
*Mathematickles* for children.

Not to mention stuff like haiku that is popular but looked down on.
> That's one of the reasons I joined this group: to read contemporary 
> poets talking about contemporary poetry.  I thought that maybe some 
> understanding would leap from the emails into my eyes.  But it's slow 
> coming.
You might try quoting some contemporary poem that gives you trouble in 
full--maybe alongside a poem you approve of.  I don't think too many who 
post here like to analyze, though, so I don't know how well you'll make out.

--Bob G.

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From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net  Fri Oct 31 14:39:15 2008
From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman)
Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2008 13:39:15 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetics
In-Reply-To: <D8A1491358EC47ED923962388631435F@RobinPC>
References: <DB1BC201380E4129823E82B17E87925C@LindaSue><490B4637.3090900@nut-n-but.net>
	<D8A1491358EC47ED923962388631435F@RobinPC>
Message-ID: <490B50D3.5080805@nut-n-but.net>

Robin Hamilton wrote:
> <<
> I think Lowell over-rated in his lifetime and under-rated now. 
> >>
>  
> Where would you place John Berryman with respect to Lowell, Bob?
>  
> Since sometime in the sixties, admittedly looking at it from the wrong 
> side of the Pond, it has seemed to me that in almost every way, 
> Berryman does everything that Lowell does, but does it better.
Not sure, Robin.  I'm biased against Lowell because he was SO famous, 
and I like the dream songs and the idea of the dream songs.  Berryman is 
more difficult, it seems to me, than Lowell, and not due to intentional 
obscuration, so valuable difficult.  But I can't think of a single 
Berryman poem that clicks as well as Lowell's few best--one of which is 
the skunk hour one, I hate to admit, since it's a standard choice for so 
many. 

I like Roethke better by quite a bit than either.

--Bob
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From robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com  Fri Oct 31 14:03:20 2008
From: robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com (Robin Hamilton)
Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2008 18:03:20 -0000
Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetics
In-Reply-To: <490B50D3.5080805@nut-n-but.net>
References: <DB1BC201380E4129823E82B17E87925C@LindaSue><490B4637.3090900@nut-n-but.net><D8A1491358EC47ED923962388631435F@RobinPC>
	<490B50D3.5080805@nut-n-but.net>
Message-ID: <7C69683CC7A84CA5B24CA819BE844413@RobinPC>

<<
Berryman is more difficult, it seems to me, than Lowell, and not due to intentional obscuration, so valuable difficult.  
>>

Yup.  There's a take-no-hostages side to Berryman, while Lowell is careful to explain -- a bit like the difference between Shakespeare and Philip Sidney.

And Lowell emerged (ghost of Browning) from the narrative Quaker Graveyard at Nantucket, while Berryman did one of the few serious updatings of Shakespeare's Sonnets, in Berryman's Sonnets.

Dramatic persona vs. Lyric persona.  

<<
But I can't think of a single Berryman poem that clicks as well as Lowell's few best--one of which is the skunk hour one, I hate to admit, since it's a standard choice for so many.  
>>

Berryman was the supreme elegaist --  Dream Song 36 ...

<<
I like Roethke better by quite a bit than either.
>>

Roethke is a different kettle of fish.

Robin

***************


            Dream Song 36: The high ones die, die. They die
               
     
              The high ones die, die. They die. You look up and who's there?
            -Easy, easy, Mr Bones. I is on your side.
            I smell your grief.
            -I sent my grief away. I cannot care
            forever. With them all again & again I died
            and cried, and I have to live.

            -Now there you exaggerate, Sah. We hafta die.
            That is our 'pointed task. Love & die.
            -Yes; that makes sense.
            But what makes sense between, then? What if I
            roiling & babbling & braining, brood on why and
            just sat on the fence?

            -I doubts you did or do. De choice is lost.
            -It's fool's gold. But I go in for that.
            The boy & the bear
            looked at each other. Man all is tossed
            & lost with groin-wounds by the grand bulls, cat.

            William Faulkner's where?

            (Frost being still around.) 

            John Berryman  
     
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From amyhappens at yahoo.com  Fri Oct 31 14:12:32 2008
From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king)
Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2008 11:12:32 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [New-Poetry] New issue -- Turntable & Blue Light
Message-ID: <390487.31579.qm@web83305.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>

Hello everyone!



Thanks so much to the readers & contributors of the magazine. It's been three wonderful years!



In this Halloween issue -- http://www.turntablebluelight.com/ 



~Poetry by:



Mark Lamoureux

Brooklyn Copeland

Andy Gricevich

Gunther Stephan

Joy Leftow

David Hadbawnik

Amy King

J. Michael Wahlgren



~Europe blog by:

Nancy Wolfe



~Poetry & Images by:

S?ren Waast



~Translation of Zhu Tianwen by Kevin Hsu



~Duncan Harman reporting from Glasgow on the dismal state of bagpipes and shoutyness



~Tattoos & Paintings by:

David Cavalcante



~Neil Watson's article on Il Cinema Ritrovato Festival



~My editorial, The Beautiful Dark and Quiet of Nonthought



Go to http://www.turntablebluelight.com/



~Enjoy!~




Arielle Shirley Guy

Word One New York

Turntable & Blue Light Magazine




_______





Recent work

http://www.writing.upenn.edu/pennsound/x/King.html



Amy's Alias

http://amyking.org/


      
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From suelin6787 at charter.net  Fri Oct 31 14:38:11 2008
From: suelin6787 at charter.net (lsg)
Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2008 13:38:11 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetics
References: <DB1BC201380E4129823E82B17E87925C@LindaSue><490B4637.3090900@nut-n-but.net>
	<3367A153-F88F-4A6C-8B71-CF655FDBFB3D@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <AD2D982602EE48F09330895E7449C285@LindaSue>

But that source points out that "deep song" is not "synonymous with, and may be antithetical" to Bly's "deep image". . .  Doesn't seem that such would allow for much resonation.

lsg
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Halvard Johnson 
  To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &amp;Views 
  Sent: Friday, October 31, 2008 12:04 PM
  Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Poetics


  The term "deep image," I believe, was intended to resonate with
  the Spanish "canto hondo."


  More here:


  http://books.google.com/books?id=XxXsPIvHKUUC&pg=PA16&lpg=PA16&dq=%22deep+image%22+%22canto+hondo%22&source=bl&ots=GeWvjn7C0J&sig=sP-GIcumHsgIFjye0io7O4I_X7Q&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=1&ct=result#PPA15,M1




  McCain / Palin -- Just say thanks but no thanks.
  They're a bridge to nowhere.


  Halvard Johnson
  ================
  halvard at earthlink.net
  halvard at gmail.com
  http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html
  http://entropyandme.blogspot.com 
  http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com
  http://www.hamiltonstone.org
  http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html






  On Oct 31, 2008, at 11:53 AM, Bob Grumman wrote:


    Linda Sue Grimes wrote:
      It seems that some poets who write about what poetry is supposed to do or what their own does or what they think it does are creating their poetics in order to create an audience.   A part of that apologia is that those poets almost always denigrate other poets' works in order to hoist their own.

      An example is Robert Bly's "deep image" along with his trashing of Robert Lowell; Bly claims that the image is ?natural language of speech? but it ?cannot be drawn from or inserted back into the natural world.?
    I like some of Bly's poems but don't think much of him as a thinker.  What examples of deep images does he give?  Sounds to me like images that qualify as deep are images he likes, those that don't qualify are images he doesn't like. 

    Does he present a rigorous definition of "deep image?"  I have an idea of it as simply an image with a strong archetypal resonance--i.e., it connects to deep human concerns like life and death, the change of seasons, reproduction.


      His claim motivates the question: is "artificial language of speech" that which "can be drawn from and inserted back into the natural world"?  Or would it be the "artificial" world?  Is a blubstinspludor upon a frile fling "a deep image"?  Can it be stuck back into the natural world?  Why not, even though I just make it up?  But then is it the natural language of speech?  

    Good questions.  What can't be re-inserted into the natural world?



      Are "the quick sharp scratch" or ?Grisly, foul, and terrific / is the speech of bones? examples of "natural language of speech"?  Not according to Bly, because they are "drawn from" and also can be "inserted back into the natural world." 
    Even if this were true, so what?  Why can't they be of value, anyway.  I like "the speech of bones" and would call it as good an image as any, whether "deep" or "shallow."


      Bly uses Robert Lowell as his target for scorn; quoting Lowell's "For the Union Dead," Bly quotes several passages that he particularly despises, calling them ?coarse and ugly,? ?unimaginative,? and then explains that Lowell is counterfeiting, ?pretending to be saying passionate things . . . , and the passage means nothing at all.? 

      Bly also claims, ?. . . for American readers are so far from standing at the center of themselves that they can?t tell when a man is counterfeiting and when he isn?t.? It seems this remark opens Bly up the charge that he may, in fact,  be the counterfeiter.  Because even if he is, his American readers are too dull to be able to discern it.  Thus, he founds a career on a poetics he created solely for that purpose--certainly not in service to poetry and readers--while denigrating Robert Lowell in the process.

    I think Lowell over-rated in his lifetime and under-rated now.  I'd put him in the second rank of American poets.  Maybe Bly is there, too, but he may only be in the third rank.  He certainly isn't up with Pound, Cummings, Roethke, Stevens and the other known poets I consider in the first rank of American Poets.  I don't think either Lowell or Bly was "counterfeiting," unless all poets do that.  

    Just some thoughts back at you, LS.

    --Bob 
    _______________________________________________
    New-Poetry mailing list
    New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
    http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry





------------------------------------------------------------------------------


  _______________________________________________
  New-Poetry mailing list
  New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
  http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
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From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net  Fri Oct 31 15:46:06 2008
From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman)
Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2008 14:46:06 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetics
In-Reply-To: <7C69683CC7A84CA5B24CA819BE844413@RobinPC>
References: <DB1BC201380E4129823E82B17E87925C@LindaSue><490B4637.3090900@nut-n-but.net><D8A1491358EC47ED923962388631435F@RobinPC>
	<490B50D3.5080805@nut-n-but.net>
	<7C69683CC7A84CA5B24CA819BE844413@RobinPC>
Message-ID: <490B607E.5060506@nut-n-but.net>

Robin Hamilton wrote:
> <<
> Berryman is more difficult, it seems to me, than Lowell, and not due 
> to intentional obscuration, so valuable difficult. 
> >>
>  
> Yup.  There's a take-no-hostages side to Berryman, while Lowell is 
> careful to explain -- a bit like the difference between Shakespeare 
> and Philip Sidney.
Shakespeare?  Who dat?
>  
> And Lowell emerged (ghost of Browning) from the narrative Quaker 
> Graveyard at Nantucket, while Berryman did one of the few serious 
> updatings of Shakespeare's Sonnets, in Berryman's Sonnets.
>  
> Dramatic persona vs. Lyric persona. 
>
Good point.
> But I can't think of a single Berryman poem that clicks as well as 
> Lowell's few best--one of which is the skunk hour one, I hate to 
> admit, since it's a standard choice for so many. 
> >>
>  
> Berryman was the supreme elegaist --  Dream Song 36 ...
Yes, you're right.  Forgot this and his others.  You absolutely knew he 
knew the poets he was writing about.

--Bob
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From robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com  Fri Oct 31 14:54:50 2008
From: robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com (Robin Hamilton)
Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2008 18:54:50 -0000
Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetics
In-Reply-To: <490B50D3.5080805@nut-n-but.net>
References: <DB1BC201380E4129823E82B17E87925C@LindaSue><490B4637.3090900@nut-n-but.net><D8A1491358EC47ED923962388631435F@RobinPC>
	<490B50D3.5080805@nut-n-but.net>
Message-ID: <67AF4E0D302549B18CEC332770A92F2B@RobinPC>

<<
I like Roethke better by quite a bit than either.

--Bob
>>

I think Roethke is a very specifically American taste.

Like John Crowe Ransom.

I don't mean that -- like Ashbery -- no non-USAmericans can appreciate them, but that they have to be read in a specifically USAmerican context.

Like WCW  but not Stevens or Pound.

        ... the sweet particularity of things ...

Robin

[... the sweet particularity of things -- I became unnerved reading the science fiction novels of Ken Macleod, realising that I was reading out of a narrow time-line of ten years, before the Queen Margaret Union became the social centre of Glasgow University in the late seventies.

            Guh!!!

It wasn't just that Macleod was writing for two (at least) audiences, but that, for all he intended, his texts, like Joyce in Ulysses, were horrendously time-bound.

Now, I get irritated when I come on cant allegedly used in 1700 when it couldn't have appeared before 1720.

        As Tom Paulin says, "The clitoral tick of an accent ... "

R.  ]

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From robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com  Fri Oct 31 15:02:55 2008
From: robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com (Robin Hamilton)
Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2008 19:02:55 -0000
Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetics
In-Reply-To: <490B607E.5060506@nut-n-but.net>
References: <DB1BC201380E4129823E82B17E87925C@LindaSue><490B4637.3090900@nut-n-but.net><D8A1491358EC47ED923962388631435F@RobinPC><490B50D3.5080805@nut-n-but.net><7C69683CC7A84CA5B24CA819BE844413@RobinPC>
	<490B607E.5060506@nut-n-but.net>
Message-ID: <699FC771D63C4465AE8E78F74F781772@RobinPC>

<<
  You absolutely knew he knew the poets he was writing about.

--Bob
>>

... though there is this sense in all of Berryman's elegies of another-rubber-tree-down.

                Mostly, he was writing a premature elegy for himself.

The worst is when he heard that Frost had died and he promptly rang Lowell to try to work out who would inherit the mantle.

        Cool!!!

Robin
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From amyhappens at yahoo.com  Fri Oct 31 15:31:56 2008
From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king)
Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2008 12:31:56 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [New-Poetry] Recent Readings / New Videos @ The Stain of Poetry
Message-ID: <768359.91804.qm@web83303.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>



THE STAIN OF POETRY ? A READING
SERIES


http://stainofpoetry.wordpress.com/video/


October 24th


KEN RUMBLE -- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oP-XRDUxdhw


BRIAN HOWE -- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YR2JP8qslw4


PATRICK HERRON -- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nHJ2qiqGjlA


JULIA COHEN -- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iDFzD8ZHCFA


SOMMER BROWNING -- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=agV_XnW-Oe4


September 26th


ARIANA REINES -- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hN-gvPQX4s4

Ariana Reines answers questions on yurts, camels, Baudelaire and Sarah Palin


REINES ? PART II -- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-HI1f6TDtUM

Ariana Reines reads found dreams and Coeur de Lion


KRISTI MAXWELL -- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gJ-tnb1mTC4


ARPINE KONYALIAN
GRENIER ? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZlkBYgLC5i8


ALAN BAJANDAS -- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YMZ2K4EEDNk





August 29th


MATVEI YANKELEVICH ? PART II youtube=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gcXwCOs2q2c





YANKELEVICH ? PART I --youtube=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IQCIdAfqBDs





RYAN MURPHY -- youtube=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-dUvQFAeNy0





VALZHYNA MORT -- youtube=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dqKjF2RUn5E





MICHAEL BALL -- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L6D9qmktZCA





http://stainofpoetry.wordpress.com/video/

http://stainofpoetry.wordpress.com/video/

http://stainofpoetry.wordpress.com/video/

?

?

~~~~

?

VIDEOS
FROM THE FORMER MIPOESIAS READING SERIES

Amy
King, Curator


Mendi
Obadike reads

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2689831932866195687&ei=LA27SLLxEJSUrgL31YnwDA&q=mipoesias&emb=1


Evie
Shockley reads

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7179533296441229330&ei=LA27SLLxEJSUrgL31YnwDA&q=mipoesias&emb=1


Tonya
Foster reads

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4641226672996544465&ei=LA27SLLxEJSUrgL31YnwDA&q=mipoesias&emb=1


Tara
Betts

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=9128849204665301215&ei=LA27SLLxEJSUrgL31YnwDA&q=mipoesias&emb=1


Christopher
Stackhouse reads

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1000016046685218294&ei=IhC7SIStLYqUrgKqtrTxDA&q=%22amy+king%22&emb=1?


Nico
Vassilakis and Geof Huth Performing Sound Poetry

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fVW_v2kzI4I


Stacy
Szymaszek reads

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6662593207462816216&ei=LA27SLLxEJSUrgL31YnwDA&q=mipoesias&emb=1


Ethan Paquin - Part 1

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1456707217726662375&hl=en


Ethan
Paquin - Part 2

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1036492947895327293&hl=en


Ethan
Paquin - Part 3

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1851525574263873552&hl=en


Cate
Peebles reads

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3143865017425555353&ei=vQ-7SNTvM5CYrAKxnuTqDA&q=mipoesias&emb=1


Nichole
Steinberg reads

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7481605085786564996&ei=vQ-7SNTvM5CYrAKxnuTqDA&q=mipoesias&emb=1


Richard Peabody reads

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3012499496745222136&ei=vQ-7SNTvM5CYrAKxnuTqDA&q=mipoesias&emb=1

?

~~~~


Not
from the series (filmed by Amy tho) ? Franz Wright

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=77GYrO2-3IE

?

Enjoy!



Amy and Ana

?

http://stainofpoetry.wordpress.com/video/

http://stainofpoetry.wordpress.com/video/

http://stainofpoetry.wordpress.com/video/

?



_______





Recent work

http://www.writing.upenn.edu/pennsound/x/King.html



Amy's Alias

http://amyking.org/


      
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From halvard at earthlink.net  Fri Oct 31 16:15:34 2008
From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson)
Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2008 14:15:34 -0600
Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetics
In-Reply-To: <AD2D982602EE48F09330895E7449C285@LindaSue>
References: <DB1BC201380E4129823E82B17E87925C@LindaSue><490B4637.3090900@nut-n-but.net>
	<3367A153-F88F-4A6C-8B71-CF655FDBFB3D@earthlink.net>
	<AD2D982602EE48F09330895E7449C285@LindaSue>
Message-ID: <8A0FA4F3-3347-4073-B8FC-7981A69D3EA5@earthlink.net>

I think I said "intended to," right?

Besides, like me, Mike Heller isn't always right.

Hal

McCain / Palin -- Just say thanks but no thanks.
They're a bridge to nowhere.

Halvard Johnson
================
halvard at earthlink.net
halvard at gmail.com
http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html
http://entropyandme.blogspot.com
http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com
http://www.hamiltonstone.org
http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html



On Oct 31, 2008, at 12:38 PM, lsg wrote:

> But that source points out that "deep song" is not "synonymous with,  
> and may be antithetical" to Bly's "deep image". . .  Doesn't seem  
> that such would allow for much resonation.
>
> lsg
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Halvard Johnson
> To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &amp;Views
> Sent: Friday, October 31, 2008 12:04 PM
> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Poetics
>
> The term "deep image," I believe, was intended to resonate with
> the Spanish "canto hondo."
>
> More here:
>
> http://books.google.com/books?id=XxXsPIvHKUUC&pg=PA16&lpg=PA16&dq=%22deep+image%22+%22canto+hondo%22&source=bl&ots=GeWvjn7C0J&sig=sP-GIcumHsgIFjye0io7O4I_X7Q&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=1&ct=result#PPA15,M1
>
>
> McCain / Palin -- Just say thanks but no thanks.
> They're a bridge to nowhere.
>
> Halvard Johnson
> ================
> halvard at earthlink.net
> halvard at gmail.com
> http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html
> http://entropyandme.blogspot.com
> http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com
> http://www.hamiltonstone.org
> http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html
>
>
>
> On Oct 31, 2008, at 11:53 AM, Bob Grumman wrote:
>
>> Linda Sue Grimes wrote:
>>>
>>> It seems that some poets who write about what poetry is supposed  
>>> to do or what their own does or what they think it does are  
>>> creating their poetics in order to create an audience.   A part of  
>>> that apologia is that those poets almost always denigrate other  
>>> poets' works in order to hoist their own.
>>>
>>> An example is Robert Bly's "deep image" along with his trashing of  
>>> Robert Lowell; Bly claims that the image is ?natural language of  
>>> speech? but it ?cannot be drawn from or inserted back into the  
>>> natural world.?
>> I like some of Bly's poems but don't think much of him as a  
>> thinker.  What examples of deep images does he give?  Sounds to me  
>> like images that qualify as deep are images he likes, those that  
>> don't qualify are images he doesn't like.
>>
>> Does he present a rigorous definition of "deep image?"  I have an  
>> idea of it as simply an image with a strong archetypal resonance-- 
>> i.e., it connects to deep human concerns like life and death, the  
>> change of seasons, reproduction.
>>
>>> His claim motivates the question: is "artificial language of  
>>> speech" that which "can be drawn from and inserted back into the  
>>> natural world"?  Or would it be the "artificial" world?  Is a  
>>> blubstinspludor upon a frile fling "a deep image"?  Can it be  
>>> stuck back into the natural world?  Why not, even though I just  
>>> make it up?  But then is it the natural language of speech?
>> Good questions.  What can't be re-inserted into the natural world?
>>
>>>
>>> Are "the quick sharp scratch" or ?Grisly, foul, and terrific / is  
>>> the speech of bones? examples of "natural language of speech"?   
>>> Not according to Bly, because they are "drawn from" and also can  
>>> be "inserted back into the natural world."
>> Even if this were true, so what?  Why can't they be of value,  
>> anyway.  I like "the speech of bones" and would call it as good an  
>> image as any, whether "deep" or "shallow."
>>>
>>> Bly uses Robert Lowell as his target for scorn; quoting Lowell's  
>>> "For the Union Dead," Bly quotes several passages that he  
>>> particularly despises, calling them ?coarse and ugly,?  
>>> ?unimaginative,? and then explains that Lowell is counterfeiting,  
>>> ?pretending to be saying passionate things . . . , and the passage  
>>> means nothing at all.?
>>>
>>> Bly also claims, ?. . . for American readers are so far from  
>>> standing at the center of themselves that they can?t tell when a  
>>> man is counterfeiting and when he isn?t.? It seems this remark  
>>> opens Bly up the charge that he may, in fact,  be the  
>>> counterfeiter.  Because even if he is, his American readers are  
>>> too dull to be able to discern it.  Thus, he founds a career on a  
>>> poetics he created solely for that purpose--certainly not in  
>>> service to poetry and readers--while denigrating Robert Lowell in  
>>> the process.
>>>
>> I think Lowell over-rated in his lifetime and under-rated now.  I'd  
>> put him in the second rank of American poets.  Maybe Bly is there,  
>> too, but he may only be in the third rank.  He certainly isn't up  
>> with Pound, Cummings, Roethke, Stevens and the other known poets I  
>> consider in the first rank of American Poets.  I don't think either  
>> Lowell or Bly was "counterfeiting," unless all poets do that.
>>
>> Just some thoughts back at you, LS.
>>
>> --Bob
>> _______________________________________________
>> New-Poetry mailing list
>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry

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From suelin6787 at charter.net  Fri Oct 31 17:07:08 2008
From: suelin6787 at charter.net (lsg)
Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2008 16:07:08 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetics
References: <DB1BC201380E4129823E82B17E87925C@LindaSue><490B4637.3090900@nut-n-but.net>
	<3367A153-F88F-4A6C-8B71-CF655FDBFB3D@earthlink.net>
	<AD2D982602EE48F09330895E7449C285@LindaSue>
	<8A0FA4F3-3347-4073-B8FC-7981A69D3EA5@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <DDB5BC13A48D43638957220F2EAD4913@LindaSue>

why did "of mice and men" just pop into my head?...don't know Mike Heller...

lsg
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Halvard Johnson 
  To: lsg ; NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &amp; Views 
  Sent: Friday, October 31, 2008 3:15 PM
  Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Poetics


  I think I said "intended to," right?


  Besides, like me, Mike Heller isn't always right.



  Hal


  McCain / Palin -- Just say thanks but no thanks.
  They're a bridge to nowhere.


  Halvard Johnson
  ================
  halvard at earthlink.net
  halvard at gmail.com
  http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html
  http://entropyandme.blogspot.com 
  http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com
  http://www.hamiltonstone.org
  http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html






  On Oct 31, 2008, at 12:38 PM, lsg wrote:


    But that source points out that "deep song" is not "synonymous with, and may be antithetical" to Bly's "deep image". . .  Doesn't seem that such would allow for much resonation.

    lsg
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: Halvard Johnson
      To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &amp;Views
      Sent: Friday, October 31, 2008 12:04 PM
      Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Poetics


      The term "deep image," I believe, was intended to resonate with
      the Spanish "canto hondo."


      More here:


      http://books.google.com/books?id=XxXsPIvHKUUC&pg=PA16&lpg=PA16&dq=%22deep+image%22+%22canto+hondo%22&source=bl&ots=GeWvjn7C0J&sig=sP-GIcumHsgIFjye0io7O4I_X7Q&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=1&ct=result#PPA15,M1




      McCain / Palin -- Just say thanks but no thanks.
      They're a bridge to nowhere.


      Halvard Johnson
      ================
      halvard at earthlink.net
      halvard at gmail.com
      http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html
      http://entropyandme.blogspot.com 
      http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com
      http://www.hamiltonstone.org
      http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html






      On Oct 31, 2008, at 11:53 AM, Bob Grumman wrote:


        Linda Sue Grimes wrote:
          It seems that some poets who write about what poetry is supposed to do or what their own does or what they think it does are creating their poetics in order to create an audience.   A part of that apologia is that those poets almost always denigrate other poets' works in order to hoist their own.

          An example is Robert Bly's "deep image" along with his trashing of Robert Lowell; Bly claims that the image is ?natural language of speech? but it ?cannot be drawn from or inserted back into the natural world.?
        I like some of Bly's poems but don't think much of him as a thinker.  What examples of deep images does he give?  Sounds to me like images that qualify as deep are images he likes, those that don't qualify are images he doesn't like. 

        Does he present a rigorous definition of "deep image?"  I have an idea of it as simply an image with a strong archetypal resonance--i.e., it connects to deep human concerns like life and death, the change of seasons, reproduction.


          His claim motivates the question: is "artificial language of speech" that which "can be drawn from and inserted back into the natural world"?  Or would it be the "artificial" world?  Is a blubstinspludor upon a frile fling "a deep image"?  Can it be stuck back into the natural world?  Why not, even though I just make it up?  But then is it the natural language of speech?  

        Good questions.  What can't be re-inserted into the natural world?



          Are "the quick sharp scratch" or ?Grisly, foul, and terrific / is the speech of bones? examples of "natural language of speech"?  Not according to Bly, because they are "drawn from" and also can be "inserted back into the natural world." 
        Even if this were true, so what?  Why can't they be of value, anyway.  I like "the speech of bones" and would call it as good an image as any, whether "deep" or "shallow."


          Bly uses Robert Lowell as his target for scorn; quoting Lowell's "For the Union Dead," Bly quotes several passages that he particularly despises, calling them ?coarse and ugly,? ?unimaginative,? and then explains that Lowell is counterfeiting, ?pretending to be saying passionate things . . . , and the passage means nothing at all.? 

          Bly also claims, ?. . . for American readers are so far from standing at the center of themselves that they can?t tell when a man is counterfeiting and when he isn?t.? It seems this remark opens Bly up the charge that he may, in fact,  be the counterfeiter.  Because even if he is, his American readers are too dull to be able to discern it.  Thus, he founds a career on a poetics he created solely for that purpose--certainly not in service to poetry and readers--while denigrating Robert Lowell in the process.

        I think Lowell over-rated in his lifetime and under-rated now.  I'd put him in the second rank of American poets.  Maybe Bly is there, too, but he may only be in the third rank.  He certainly isn't up with Pound, Cummings, Roethke, Stevens and the other known poets I consider in the first rank of American Poets.  I don't think either Lowell or Bly was "counterfeiting," unless all poets do that.  

        Just some thoughts back at you, LS.

        --Bob 
        _______________________________________________
        New-Poetry mailing list
        New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
        http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry






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From suelin6787 at charter.net  Fri Oct 31 17:21:22 2008
From: suelin6787 at charter.net (lsg)
Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2008 16:21:22 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetics
References: <DB1BC201380E4129823E82B17E87925C@LindaSue><490B4637.3090900@nut-n-but.net><3367A153-F88F-4A6C-8B71-CF655FDBFB3D@earthlink.net><AD2D982602EE48F09330895E7449C285@LindaSue><8A0FA4F3-3347-4073-B8FC-7981A69D3EA5@earthlink.net>
	<DDB5BC13A48D43638957220F2EAD4913@LindaSue>
Message-ID: <975F9B0F4C974D328FDB476877AC9C16@LindaSue>

Oh, I see, the guy who wrote "Uncertain Poetries."  Sorry.

lsg
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: lsg 
  To: Halvard Johnson ; NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &amp;Views 
  Sent: Friday, October 31, 2008 4:07 PM
  Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Poetics


  why did "of mice and men" just pop into my head?...don't know Mike Heller...

  lsg
    ----- Original Message ----- 
    From: Halvard Johnson 
    To: lsg ; NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &amp; Views 
    Sent: Friday, October 31, 2008 3:15 PM
    Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Poetics


    I think I said "intended to," right? 


    Besides, like me, Mike Heller isn't always right.



    Hal


    McCain / Palin -- Just say thanks but no thanks.
    They're a bridge to nowhere.


    Halvard Johnson
    ================
    halvard at earthlink.net
    halvard at gmail.com
    http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html
    http://entropyandme.blogspot.com 
    http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com
    http://www.hamiltonstone.org 
    http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html






    On Oct 31, 2008, at 12:38 PM, lsg wrote:


      But that source points out that "deep song" is not "synonymous with, and may be antithetical" to Bly's "deep image". . .  Doesn't seem that such would allow for much resonation.

      lsg
        ----- Original Message -----
        From: Halvard Johnson
        To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &amp;Views
        Sent: Friday, October 31, 2008 12:04 PM
        Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Poetics


        The term "deep image," I believe, was intended to resonate with 
        the Spanish "canto hondo."


        More here:


        http://books.google.com/books?id=XxXsPIvHKUUC&pg=PA16&lpg=PA16&dq=%22deep+image%22+%22canto+hondo%22&source=bl&ots=GeWvjn7C0J&sig=sP-GIcumHsgIFjye0io7O4I_X7Q&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=1&ct=result#PPA15,M1




        McCain / Palin -- Just say thanks but no thanks.
        They're a bridge to nowhere.


        Halvard Johnson
        ================
        halvard at earthlink.net
        halvard at gmail.com
        http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html
        http://entropyandme.blogspot.com 
        http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com
        http://www.hamiltonstone.org 
        http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html






        On Oct 31, 2008, at 11:53 AM, Bob Grumman wrote:


          Linda Sue Grimes wrote: 
            It seems that some poets who write about what poetry is supposed to do or what their own does or what they think it does are creating their poetics in order to create an audience.   A part of that apologia is that those poets almost always denigrate other poets' works in order to hoist their own.

            An example is Robert Bly's "deep image" along with his trashing of Robert Lowell; Bly claims that the image is ?natural language of speech? but it ?cannot be drawn from or inserted back into the natural world.?
          I like some of Bly's poems but don't think much of him as a thinker.  What examples of deep images does he give?  Sounds to me like images that qualify as deep are images he likes, those that don't qualify are images he doesn't like. 

          Does he present a rigorous definition of "deep image?"  I have an idea of it as simply an image with a strong archetypal resonance--i.e., it connects to deep human concerns like life and death, the change of seasons, reproduction.


            His claim motivates the question: is "artificial language of speech" that which "can be drawn from and inserted back into the natural world"?  Or would it be the "artificial" world?  Is a blubstinspludor upon a frile fling "a deep image"?  Can it be stuck back into the natural world?  Why not, even though I just make it up?  But then is it the natural language of speech?  

          Good questions.  What can't be re-inserted into the natural world?



            Are "the quick sharp scratch" or ?Grisly, foul, and terrific / is the speech of bones? examples of "natural language of speech"?  Not according to Bly, because they are "drawn from" and also can be "inserted back into the natural world." 
          Even if this were true, so what?  Why can't they be of value, anyway.  I like "the speech of bones" and would call it as good an image as any, whether "deep" or "shallow."


            Bly uses Robert Lowell as his target for scorn; quoting Lowell's "For the Union Dead," Bly quotes several passages that he particularly despises, calling them ?coarse and ugly,? ?unimaginative,? and then explains that Lowell is counterfeiting, ?pretending to be saying passionate things . . . , and the passage means nothing at all.? 

            Bly also claims, ?. . . for American readers are so far from standing at the center of themselves that they can?t tell when a man is counterfeiting and when he isn?t.? It seems this remark opens Bly up the charge that he may, in fact,  be the counterfeiter.  Because even if he is, his American readers are too dull to be able to discern it.  Thus, he founds a career on a poetics he created solely for that purpose--certainly not in service to poetry and readers--while denigrating Robert Lowell in the process.

          I think Lowell over-rated in his lifetime and under-rated now.  I'd put him in the second rank of American poets.  Maybe Bly is there, too, but he may only be in the third rank.  He certainly isn't up with Pound, Cummings, Roethke, Stevens and the other known poets I consider in the first rank of American Poets.  I don't think either Lowell or Bly was "counterfeiting," unless all poets do that.  

          Just some thoughts back at you, LS.

          --Bob 
          _______________________________________________
          New-Poetry mailing list
          New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
          http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry






------------------------------------------------------------------------



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        New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
        http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry

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From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net  Fri Oct 31 18:41:31 2008
From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman)
Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2008 17:41:31 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetics
In-Reply-To: <67AF4E0D302549B18CEC332770A92F2B@RobinPC>
References: <DB1BC201380E4129823E82B17E87925C@LindaSue><490B4637.3090900@nut-n-but.net><D8A1491358EC47ED923962388631435F@RobinPC>
	<490B50D3.5080805@nut-n-but.net>
	<67AF4E0D302549B18CEC332770A92F2B@RobinPC>
Message-ID: <490B899B.6000201@nut-n-but.net>

Robin Hamilton wrote:
> <<
> I like Roethke better by quite a bit than either.
>
> --Bob
> >>
>  
> I think Roethke is a very specifically American taste.
>  
> Like John Crowe Ransom.
>  
> I don't mean that -- like Ashbery -- no non-USAmericans can appreciate 
> them, but that they have to be read in a specifically USAmerican context.
Interesting.  I'll have to think about that.  Roethke seems universal to 
me.  I mean, don't the British have greenhouses?  Maybe he's more bardic 
in his later poems, like the North American Sequence (if I have the name 
right), than British poets are, I dunno.  What you have goin' in the 
bardic line crost the seas, Robin?  Hughes a little, but not like 
Roethke, whose best poems, for me, are like Shaman journeys from utter 
darkness finally after great struggle to exaltation--Wordsworthian 
exaltation, it now strikes me. . .

--Bob
>  
> Like WCW  but not Stevens or Pound.
>  
>         ... the sweet particularity of things ...
>  
> Robin
>  
> [... the sweet particularity of things -- I became unnerved reading 
> the science fiction novels of Ken Macleod, realising that I was 
> reading out of a narrow time-line of ten years, before the Queen 
> Margaret Union became the social centre of Glasgow University in the 
> late seventies.
>  
>             Guh!!!
>  
> It wasn't just that Macleod was writing for two (at least) audiences, 
> but that, for all he intended, his texts, like Joyce in Ulysses, were 
> horrendously time-bound.
>  
> Now, I get irritated when I come on cant allegedly used in 1700 when 
> it couldn't have appeared before 1720.
>  
>         As Tom Paulin says, "The clitoral tick of an accent ... "
>  
> R.  ]
>  
>  
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>   

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From robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com  Fri Oct 31 18:13:57 2008
From: robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com (Robin Hamilton)
Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2008 22:13:57 -0000
Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetics
In-Reply-To: <490B899B.6000201@nut-n-but.net>
References: <DB1BC201380E4129823E82B17E87925C@LindaSue><490B4637.3090900@nut-n-but.net><D8A1491358EC47ED923962388631435F@RobinPC><490B50D3.5080805@nut-n-but.net><67AF4E0D302549B18CEC332770A92F2B@RobinPC>
	<490B899B.6000201@nut-n-but.net>
Message-ID: <70737A81D33E4C7B9EEF995F19392CD2@RobinPC>

<<
 I mean, don't the British have greenhouses?  
>>

I'm told they prefer allotments ...

But as a descriptor, "British" is a non-starter  ....  Try English Irish Scottish Welsh ....

<<
Maybe he's more bardic in his later poems, like the North American Sequence (if I have the name right), than British poets are, I dunno.  What you have goin' in the bardic line crost the seas, Robin?  
>>

Well, I mean, other than our currently bearded archbish of Canterbury who's an Authentic Welsh Aestedfod Bard, dunno ...

        <g>

"Bardic" poetry calls up to my mind Dylan Thomas and the whole sorry catastrophe of the Apocalypse Group of the forties.

Before that, Thomas Gray and "The Bard".

<<
Hughes a little, but not like Roethke, whose best poems, for me, are like Shaman journeys from utter darkness finally after great struggle to exaltation--Wordsworthian exaltation, it now strikes me. . . 
>>

Oh, Crow -- well, if that's what you mean by shaman poetry ...

Actually, if I had to put my hat to a name of who wrote authentic shaman poetry this side of the Pond, it would be D.M.Black.

Robin
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From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net  Fri Oct 31 19:41:15 2008
From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman)
Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2008 18:41:15 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetics
In-Reply-To: <70737A81D33E4C7B9EEF995F19392CD2@RobinPC>
References: <DB1BC201380E4129823E82B17E87925C@LindaSue><490B4637.3090900@nut-n-but.net><D8A1491358EC47ED923962388631435F@RobinPC>
	<490B50D3.5080805@nut-n-but.net><67AF4E0D302549B18CEC332770A92F2B@RobinPC><490B899B.6000201@nut-n-but.net>
	<70737A81D33E4C7B9EEF995F19392CD2@RobinPC>
Message-ID: <490B979B.4040008@nut-n-but.net>

Robin Hamilton wrote:
> <<
>  I mean, don't the British have greenhouses? 
> >>
>  
> I'm told they prefer allotments ...
>  
> But as a descriptor, "British" is a non-starter  ....  Try English 
> Irish Scottish Welsh ....
>  
Any of the preceding.

> <<
> Maybe he's more bardic in his later poems, like the North American 
> Sequence (if I have the name right), than British poets are, I dunno.  
> What you have goin' in the bardic line crost the seas, Robin? 
> >>
>  
> Well, I mean, other than our currently bearded archbish of Canterbury 
> who's an Authentic Welsh Aestedfod Bard, dunno ...
>  
>         <g>
>  
> "Bardic" poetry calls up to my mind Dylan Thomas and the whole sorry 
> catastrophe of the Apocalypse Group of the forties.
>  
> Before that, Thomas Gray and "/The /Bard".
I'm thinking Whitmanesque, but with Wordsworthian apoetheoses.
>  
> <<
> Hughes a little, but not like Roethke, whose best poems, for me, are 
> like Shaman journeys from utter darkness finally after great struggle 
> to exaltation--Wordsworthian exaltation, it now strikes me. . .
> >>
>  
> Oh, Crow -- well, if that's what you mean by shaman poetry ...
>  
A little.  Maybe the Crow series as a whole.
> Actually, if I had to put my hat to a name of who wrote authentic 
> shaman poetry this side of the Pond, it would be D.M.Black.
>  
> Robin
I don't know his work.

--Bob
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