[New-Poetry] Poetic Justice

Tue Nov 4 16:22:23 EST 2008

I can't seem to get through a paragraph of yours without plenty of giggles,
John.  Your original explanation of Mary Oliver's stanza----well, ok, no
explanation was necessary for that stanza----was clear and reasonable,
logical, true, whatever the words of agreement are here.  And I didn't doze
off a bit.  Even after re-reading your comments; still giggled.
Since I'm pretty new to this list, and found it for the first couple months
extremely boring [sorry folks, just the way I reacted to things sent in],
I'll be among the last of listmembers to tell you how we can meet your
needs.

I'll be happy to read any other poems, whether some you like [yours or
others'], and tell you my candid opinion.  I hate most poetry, so must
fairly warn you of that.

Since I've already sent in one poem I really like, you could comment on
that.  I won't get all upset and angry if you condemn it continuously and
outrightly.  Mainly, I just want to know what practicing poets think of
current poems.

A nother possibility for you is to join POETRYETC.  It's a list of many very
well read individual poets, some of whom regularly respond to poems posted.
 But be warned, John; on neither of these lists have I found more than a
handful of folk who give their opinions on anything, on a regular basis.  It
shocks me, but that's maybe bcuz as a former teacher, I'm accustomed to
getting plenty of responses to everything, like them or not.

Also, it's characteristic of all groups that a very few give their opinions
'in public'; the vast majority, no less talented or informed or opinioned,
just would rather not say things in front of the rest.  So Bob Grumman has
pragmatically suggested that you just go ahead and present poems you prefer
or ask for poems you might prefer, so that the handful of folk who might
respond will do so.

I'd still like to read one of your poems.

Best,

Judy

2008/11/3 John Jeffrey <jjeffreymail at yahoo.com>

> Oliver's stuff is probably great for postcards.  I can picture a line or
> two on top of a glossy photo of the woods or a close up of a flowering plant
> or a bird.  Yes, yes, she can write, put a smooth sentence together,
> describe a scene, but she heavy bores me.  I know that Bob said it was
> unfair to comment on only the first stanza and that maybe I have to give the
> poem time, but I did read the whole poem; I gave it the time.  (Then I dozed
> off for a bit.)  I just think the opening is a good example of one of my
> issues with contemporary poetry.  (I just re-read it.  Now I'm tired again.)
>
> About what I wanted to hear from this group, it's nothing more than
> discussions about poetry and poets.  The list is "New Poetry," so I figured
> that new poetry would be discussed, perhaps in some depth.  That's it.  It's
> impossible to read (or even to have heard of) all the poetry that's coming
> out: joining this group was a way of expanding my circle.  I know plenty of
> poets (I write a newsletter that lists the readings in my state, which keeps
> me in touch with the poetry reading crowd), but though many of them write poetry,
> they don't seem to read too much of it.  It's a strange phenomenon, rife
> in poetry:  People feel they can practice the art without studying it.  So
> those folks don't talk the talk.
>
> But I figured an email list of poets talking about poetry would talk about
> poets and poetry.  (Did you follow that?)  And this seems a diverse crowd.
> I hadn't heard of many of the poets in the group before joining the group,
> which also is a good thing.  I'd heard Tad Richards read and was an early
> subscriber to Situations.  And, even before joining the group, I had bought
> and have smilingly (and sometimes in teeth-gnashed envy) read R.S. Gwynn's
> book, No Word of Farewell.  But none of the others, though I've now
> visited some web sites or done some searching.  It's a good group to
> eavesdrop.  The circle expands, stretched out in some bizarre ways, at
> times, yes. But who needs a perfect circle anyway.
>
> JohnJ
>
> not
> in Indiana
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
> *From:* Judy Prince <jbalizsprince at googlemail.com>
> *To:* "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &, Views" <
> new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
> *Sent:* Saturday, November 1, 2008 11:59:18 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [New-Poetry] Poetic Justice
>
> Of course, John, everything you've said, and I quite like how you said it,
> too.
> I'm a virgin reader of Mary Oliver, having read 4 lines of hers which I
> liked, from I guess [sent to me by a friend on 2 different collaged
> postcards] a couple different poems, as well as the lines of hers you've
> pasted in below.
> If I read more of her work, will I be shockedly impressed at its poetry?  I
> don't think so.  But I'd like to read some of your poems.
>
> Now then, what is it that you've been wanting to hear from these doltish
> fellows, Hal Johnson, Robin Hamilton, and the GrumMan and others on this
> list?  [just joined it m'sel' 4 months ago, so not quite sure what's going
> on yet]
>
> OH dear, forgot I'd promised Bob I'd send him a poem I love and label
> Breathtaking.
>
> I label the following poem Tongue-Tinsel and Brain-Reset, with a flying
> approach to near-Breathtaking:
>
> Oct 24, 2008 12:16 AM
> I love the purring of knowing them<http://poemsfromprovidence.blogspot.com/2008/10/i-love-purring-of-knowing-them.html>
> by Peter Ciccariello
>  I love the purring of knowing them,
> So I will be moving the useless telephone
> Of my monstrous self to the ubiquitous ringtone
> That has been disrupting everyone's sleep
> When is a heaven such a useless tell?
> The letters and burning envelopes
> Resting so soft and full on the edge of your bedside table
> Are the only existing explanations of our archeology.
> Listening to the warm purring of the flames against the laid paper
> Reminds one how unpredictably disaster follows reticulation
> These all should arrive in your post next week,
> the edges of the burning, the purring, and the love.
> Asking you only to tell them that I am gone, lover,
> That we found all the evidence lover, and went ahead
> anyway, with full knowledge of our actions.
> I scratched all this conveniently in the mahogany
> On your side of the bed
>
>
> -------------------------------
>
>
> 2008/10/30 John Jeffrey <jjeffreymail at yahoo.com>
>
>> Bob,
>>
>> I didn't mean to give the impression that I was attacking your kind of
>> art, and I apologize if you felt that.  I only disagree with the definition
>> of creativity.  I wouldn't have the snowballs to attack your fort because,
>> to be honest, I don't understand New Poetry.  I've tried.  I've read it.
>> I've read theory.  But I get nothing.
>>
>> And not just the otherstreams, either.  Even the major rivers leave me
>> nodding off on the banks.  A few weeks ago, the Writer's Almanac had one of
>> those yawners that makes me weep at the state of poetry.  The title was "The
>> Poet Goes to Indiana" (by Mary Oliver) and the first stanza read:
>>
>>    I'll tell you a half-dozen things
>>    that happened to me
>>    in Indiana
>>    when I went that far west to teach.
>>    You tell me if it was worth it.
>>
>> By the time I got to the third line I was thinking, What do I care?  And
>> look at that third line: "In Indiana."  In Indiana?  That's worthy of its
>> own line? a principal unit? a piece of the pie? a lego block? a thought that
>> adds to the whole?  Bah!  No beauty in the writing.  No form to flatter.  No
>> images.  No surprises.  Nothing but chit-chatty broken out by grammatical
>> clauses.  Bah, I say again.
>>
>> And I'd dismiss is except that it's not atypical.
>>
>> I think we're in a poetic bear market.  Those near-empty spaces that you
>> see if you look at poetry timelines, like the post Milton dirth.  We're in
>> the dirth after a pretty good early 20th century.  It's been trending
>> downward since.  (Though I'll admit my tastes are demode.)
>>
>> That's one of the reasons I joined this group: to read contemporary poets
>> talking about contemporary poetry.  I thought that maybe some understanding
>> would leap from the emails into my eyes.  But it's slow coming.
>>
>> John
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>
>
>
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