From jorgensen_a at yahoo.com Sat Nov 1 06:28:59 2008 From: jorgensen_a at yahoo.com (Jorgensen, Alexander) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:14 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] A note on Otoliths In-Reply-To: <200810311453.m9VErwnK012611@wiz.cath.vt.edu> Message-ID: <267196.54387.qm@web50509.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Just a public thank you to Annie - for being there. Too, an apology for listing Otoliths before its official "live" date. I received a Google alert and assumed it meant Mark Young's wonderful journal went online earlier than his careful eye. ? Alex -- Tennessee Williams: "A vacuum is a hell of a lot better than some of the stuff that nature replaces it with." --- On Fri, 10/31/08, new-poetry-request@wiz.cath.vt.edu wrote: From: new-poetry-request@wiz.cath.vt.edu Subject: New-Poetry Digest, Vol 52, Issue 43 To: new-poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu Date: Friday, October 31, 2008, 10:53 PM Send New-Poetry mailing list submissions to new-poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to new-poetry-request@wiz.cath.vt.edu You can reach the person managing the list at new-poetry-owner@wiz.cath.vt.edu When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of New-Poetry digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: Poetics (David Graham) 2. Re: Poetics (Halvard Johnson) 3. Re: Ondaatje and the soul of the poet (Anny Ballardini) 4. Re: Poetics (Bob Grumman) 5. Re: Poetics (Halvard Johnson) 6. Re: Poetics (Robin Hamilton) 7. Poetics & Bly (David Graham) 8. Re: Poetic Justice (Bob Grumman) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2008 10:18:01 -0500 From: David Graham Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Poetics To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views" Message-ID: <4515AE52-7DC3-478F-AE61-94D1788E5DA2@ripon.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" The idea that poets tend to denigrate the work of other, often older poets in order to clear a space for their own work is a very old one. Bly would certainly be guilty of that crime, if crime it is, but he's just one face in a teeming crowd going back centuries. Among other things, when setting forth in his career he was reacting to the Agrarians and the New Critics, who in the 1940s and 1950s had a real stranglehold on American mainstream poetry. Lowell was, of course, a very big and very tempting target. Bly's efforts were bumptious, unfair, often brilliantly funny, and in my view generally welcome. He was on a different track but generally in sync with the New York School and The Beats in stirring up the mud puddle. All power to him. In my opinion, he helped open up the mainstream to any number of good ideas, not just foolish ones. Soon enough others came along to throw cold water on what Bly was doing, and his brand of poetry fell largely out of favor. Not much news here. And the painted ponies go up and down. . . . ======================================== David Graham grahamd@ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.mac.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== On Oct 31, 2008, at 6:10 AM, Linda Sue Grimes wrote: > It seems that some poets who write about what poetry is supposed to > do or what their own does or what they think it does are creating > their poetics in order to create an audience. A part of that > apologia is that those poets almost always denigrate other poets' > works in order to hoist their own. > > An example is Robert Bly's "deep image" along with his trashing of > Robert Lowell; Bly claims that the image is ?natural language of > speech? but it ?cannot be drawn from or inserted back into the > natural world.? His claim motivates the question: is "artificial > language of speech" that which "can be drawn from and inserted back > into the natural world"? Or would it be the "artificial" world? > Is a blubstinspludor upon a frile fling "a deep image"? Can it be > stuck back into the natural world? Why not, even though I just > make it up? But then is it the natural language of speech? > > Are "the quick sharp scratch" or ?Grisly, foul, and terrific / is > the speech of bones? examples of "natural language of speech"? Not > according to Bly, because they are "drawn from" and also can be > "inserted back into the natural world." > > Bly uses Robert Lowell as his target for scorn; quoting Lowell's > "For the Union Dead," Bly quotes several passages that he > particularly despises, calling them ?coarse and ugly,? > ?unimaginative,? and then explains that Lowell is counterfeiting, > ?pretending to be saying passionate things . . . , and the passage > means nothing at all.? > > Bly also claims, ?. . . for American readers are so far from > standing at the center of themselves that they can?t tell when a > man is counterfeiting and when he isn?t.? It seems this remark > opens Bly up the charge that he may, in fact, be the > counterfeiter. Because even if he is, his American readers are too > dull to be able to discern it. Thus, he founds a career on a > poetics he created solely for that purpose--certainly not in > service to poetry and readers--while denigrating Robert Lowell in > the process. > > Just some thoughts... > > respectfully, > lsg > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081031/4b34357f/attachment-0001.html ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2008 09:31:48 -0600 From: Halvard Johnson Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Poetics To: "NewPoetry: & Views" Message-ID: <8E124DA9-1E42-4C5F-9169-371B9B714786@earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Seems to me that Robert Bly is/was one of those true believers who never found (for long) what he really wanted to believe in. Thus, he passed from one enthusiasm to another (and his "denigration" of Lowell and others) was part and parcel of his moving on from one thing to another. Check out Robert Bly's work before he was the Robert Bly we've come to know. It's back there in the Hall/Pack anthologies. Arthur Koestler always seemed to me to be another such "true believer," but in the spheres of politics and philosophy. There are those who can move along without trashing all they leave behind. Hal McCain / Palin -- Just say thanks but no thanks. They're a bridge to nowhere. Halvard Johnson ================ halvard@earthlink.net halvard@gmail.com http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html On Oct 31, 2008, at 5:10 AM, Linda Sue Grimes wrote: > It seems that some poets who write about what poetry is supposed to > do or what their own does or what they think it does are creating > their poetics in order to create an audience. A part of that > apologia is that those poets almost always denigrate other poets' > works in order to hoist their own. > > An example is Robert Bly's "deep image" along with his trashing of > Robert Lowell; Bly claims that the image is ?natural language of > speech? but it ?cannot be drawn from or inserted back into the > natural world.? His claim motivates the question: is "artificial > language of speech" that which "can be drawn from and inserted back > into the natural world"? Or would it be the "artificial" world? Is > a blubstinspludor upon a frile fling "a deep image"? Can it be > stuck back into the natural world? Why not, even though I just make > it up? But then is it the natural language of speech? > > Are "the quick sharp scratch" or ?Grisly, foul, and terrific / is > the speech of bones? examples of "natural language of speech"? Not > according to Bly, because they are "drawn from" and also can be > "inserted back into the natural world." > > Bly uses Robert Lowell as his target for scorn; quoting Lowell's > "For the Union Dead," Bly quotes several passages that he > particularly despises, calling them ?coarse and ugly,? > ?unimaginative,? and then explains that Lowell is counterfeiting, > ?pretending to be saying passionate things . . . , and the passage > means nothing at all.? > > Bly also claims, ?. . . for American readers are so far from > standing at the center of themselves that they can?t tell when a man > is counterfeiting and when he isn?t.? It seems this remark opens > Bly up the charge that he may, in fact, be the counterfeiter. > Because even if he is, his American readers are too dull to be able > to discern it. Thus, he founds a career on a poetics he created > solely for that purpose--certainly not in service to poetry and > readers--while denigrating Robert Lowell in the process. > > Just some thoughts... > > respectfully, > lsg > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081031/a8e6752c/attachment-0001.html ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2008 17:38:11 +0100 From: "Anny Ballardini" Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Ondaatje and the soul of the poet To: "Linda Sue Grimes" , "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &, Views" Message-ID: <4b65c2d70810310938j40d812ccyff33e77aef66c1c7@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" The way I see it, and as far as I know, I can talk of both Williams and Eliot with reference to Pound, Williams is opposed to Pound - at least that is the way he proudly shaped himself, and Eliot would have been no one without Pound. We are facing again two sides of the same coin, still two very distinct sides. Also, in the case of Eliot, one should trace his own outline, still different from Pound by whom he was created. I might not be clear, I am full of analgesics - just back from the dentist. On Fri, Oct 31, 2008 at 12:30 PM, Linda Sue Grimes wrote: > I would like to hear Ondaatje's examples with explanations for this > difference. My first reaction is yes Eliot certainly does that, but then I > don't quite get how Williams "goes into it and kind of discovers it." > > I think of Eliot's patient etherized upon a table describing evening, and > think that is certainly a mindset, the mindset of Prufrock, at least. But > then the red wheelbarrow that so much depends upon and green glass between > the hospital walls and "Honeysuckle! And now / there comes the buzzing of > a bee!"--don't they also reflect a mindset? How is it that Williams > entered the landscape but Eliot did not? > > respectfully, > lsg > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* Anny Ballardini > *To:* NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &,Views > *Sent:* Thursday, October 30, 2008 11:20 PM > *Subject:* Re: [New-Poetry] Ondaatje and the soul of the poet > > This statement by Ondaatje has much more in it than what it actually says. > > On Fri, Oct 31, 2008 at 12:29 AM, wrote: > >> >> http://www.buffalonews.com/185/story/478592.html >> >> Ondaatje has written five novels. The most recent was "Divisadero," >> published in 2007. He has written 13 books of poetry. >> >> "I think the way that someone like [poet] William Carlos Williams writes >> about place and landscape is more believable to me than the way T.S. Elliot >> writes. Eliot imposes his mind-set on that landscape, and Williams goes into >> it and kind of discovers [it] . . . " Ondaatje said. >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> McCain or Obama? Stay up to date on the latest from the campaign trail >> with AOL News. >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > > > -- > Anny Ballardini > http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ > http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome > http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html > I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing > star! > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081031/0014665e/attachment-0001.html ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2008 12:53:59 -0500 From: Bob Grumman Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Poetics To: Linda Sue Grimes , "NewPoetry: ContemporaryPoetry News & Views" Message-ID: <490B4637.3090900@nut-n-but.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Linda Sue Grimes wrote: > It seems that some poets who write about what poetry is supposed to do > or what their own does or what they think it does are creating their > poetics in order to create an audience. A part of that apologia is > that those poets almost always denigrate other poets' works in order > to hoist their own. > > An example is Robert Bly's "deep image" along with his trashing of > Robert Lowell; Bly claims that the image is "natural language of > speech" but it "cannot be drawn from or inserted back into the natural > world." I like some of Bly's poems but don't think much of him as a thinker. What examples of deep images does he give? Sounds to me like images that qualify as deep are images he likes, those that don't qualify are images he doesn't like. Does he present a rigorous definition of "deep image?" I have an idea of it as simply an image with a strong archetypal resonance--i.e., it connects to deep human concerns like life and death, the change of seasons, reproduction. > His claim motivates the question: is "artificial language of speech" > that which "can be drawn from and inserted back into the natural > world"? Or would it be the "artificial" world? Is a blubstinspludor > upon a frile fling "a deep image"? Can it be stuck back into the > natural world? Why not, even though I just make it up? But then is > it the natural language of speech? Good questions. What can't be re-inserted into the natural world? > > Are "the quick sharp scratch" or "Grisly, foul, and terrific / is the > speech of bones" examples of "natural language of speech"? Not > according to Bly, because they are "drawn from" and also can be > "inserted back into the natural world." Even if this were true, so what? Why can't they be of value, anyway. I like "the speech of bones" and would call it as good an image as any, whether "deep" or "shallow." > > Bly uses Robert Lowell as his target for scorn; quoting Lowell's "For > the Union Dead," Bly quotes several passages that he particularly > despises, calling them "coarse and ugly," "unimaginative," and then > explains that Lowell is counterfeiting, "pretending to be saying > passionate things . . . , and the passage means nothing at all." > > Bly also claims, ". . . for American readers are so far from standing > at the center of themselves that/ they can't tell when a man is > counterfeiting and when he isn't/." It seems this remark opens Bly up > the charge that he may, in fact, be the counterfeiter. Because even > if he is, his American readers are too dull to be able to discern it. > Thus, he founds a career on a poetics he created solely for that > purpose--certainly not in service to poetry and readers--while > denigrating Robert Lowell in the process. > I think Lowell over-rated in his lifetime and under-rated now. I'd put him in the second rank of American poets. Maybe Bly is there, too, but he may only be in the third rank. He certainly isn't up with Pound, Cummings, Roethke, Stevens and the other known poets I consider in the first rank of American Poets. I don't think either Lowell or Bly was "counterfeiting," unless all poets do that. Just some thoughts back at you, LS. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081031/e7860839/attachment-0001.html ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2008 11:04:07 -0600 From: Halvard Johnson Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Poetics To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views" Message-ID: <3367A153-F88F-4A6C-8B71-CF655FDBFB3D@earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" The term "deep image," I believe, was intended to resonate with the Spanish "canto hondo." More here: http://books.google.com/books?id=XxXsPIvHKUUC&pg=PA16&lpg=PA16&dq=%22deep+image%22+%22canto+hondo%22&source=bl&ots=GeWvjn7C0J&sig=sP-GIcumHsgIFjye0io7O4I_X7Q&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=1&ct=result#PPA15,M1 McCain / Palin -- Just say thanks but no thanks. They're a bridge to nowhere. Halvard Johnson ================ halvard@earthlink.net halvard@gmail.com http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html On Oct 31, 2008, at 11:53 AM, Bob Grumman wrote: > Linda Sue Grimes wrote: >> >> It seems that some poets who write about what poetry is supposed to >> do or what their own does or what they think it does are creating >> their poetics in order to create an audience. A part of that >> apologia is that those poets almost always denigrate other poets' >> works in order to hoist their own. >> >> An example is Robert Bly's "deep image" along with his trashing of >> Robert Lowell; Bly claims that the image is ?natural language of >> speech? but it ?cannot be drawn from or inserted back into the >> natural world.? > I like some of Bly's poems but don't think much of him as a > thinker. What examples of deep images does he give? Sounds to me > like images that qualify as deep are images he likes, those that > don't qualify are images he doesn't like. > > Does he present a rigorous definition of "deep image?" I have an > idea of it as simply an image with a strong archetypal resonance-- > i.e., it connects to deep human concerns like life and death, the > change of seasons, reproduction. > >> His claim motivates the question: is "artificial language of >> speech" that which "can be drawn from and inserted back into the >> natural world"? Or would it be the "artificial" world? Is a >> blubstinspludor upon a frile fling "a deep image"? Can it be stuck >> back into the natural world? Why not, even though I just make it >> up? But then is it the natural language of speech? > Good questions. What can't be re-inserted into the natural world? > >> >> Are "the quick sharp scratch" or ?Grisly, foul, and terrific / is >> the speech of bones? examples of "natural language of speech"? Not >> according to Bly, because they are "drawn from" and also can be >> "inserted back into the natural world." > Even if this were true, so what? Why can't they be of value, > anyway. I like "the speech of bones" and would call it as good an > image as any, whether "deep" or "shallow." >> >> Bly uses Robert Lowell as his target for scorn; quoting Lowell's >> "For the Union Dead," Bly quotes several passages that he >> particularly despises, calling them ?coarse and ugly,? >> ?unimaginative,? and then explains that Lowell is counterfeiting, >> ?pretending to be saying passionate things . . . , and the passage >> means nothing at all.? >> >> Bly also claims, ?. . . for American readers are so far from >> standing at the center of themselves that they can?t tell when a >> man is counterfeiting and when he isn?t.? It seems this remark >> opens Bly up the charge that he may, in fact, be the >> counterfeiter. Because even if he is, his American readers are too >> dull to be able to discern it. Thus, he founds a career on a >> poetics he created solely for that purpose--certainly not in >> service to poetry and readers--while denigrating Robert Lowell in >> the process. >> > I think Lowell over-rated in his lifetime and under-rated now. I'd > put him in the second rank of American poets. Maybe Bly is there, > too, but he may only be in the third rank. He certainly isn't up > with Pound, Cummings, Roethke, Stevens and the other known poets I > consider in the first rank of American Poets. I don't think either > Lowell or Bly was "counterfeiting," unless all poets do that. > > Just some thoughts back at you, LS. > > --Bob > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081031/8a678f57/attachment-0001.html ------------------------------ Message: 6 Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2008 16:59:30 -0000 From: "Robin Hamilton" Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Poetics To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views" Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" << I think Lowell over-rated in his lifetime and under-rated now. >> Where would you place John Berryman with respect to Lowell, Bob? Since sometime in the sixties, admittedly looking at it from the wrong side of the Pond, it has seemed to me that in almost every way, Berryman does everything that Lowell does, but does it better. But Lowell is easier to read and more accessible, therefore more popular. Robin -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081031/a091d9f5/attachment-0001.html ------------------------------ Message: 7 Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2008 12:21:00 -0500 From: David Graham Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetics & Bly To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views" Message-ID: <2E946198-00F7-48C4-8D65-2E220F9B90AC@ripon.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Here is a fairly detailed history of the term "deep image" with regard to Bly: http://ebbs.english.vt.edu/olp/gs/1.2/bushell.html Robert Kelly coined the phrase originally. Bly's own poetics has shown a good deal of consistency over the years, as I see it, following his apprenticeship pieces noted by Hal Johnson. He's essentially a religious mystic, Jungian variety, and all his disparate concepts and mini-movements have circled around an anti- rationalism that is deeply Romantic. Thus his attraction to the surrealists, Neruda, Lorca, Rilke, and so forth. Whether his subject is political or pastoral, he's a Romantic. The best overall summary of Bly's thinking that I know of is probably his anthology *News of the Universe*, which presents (in addition to many fine poems) his own typically loopy, infuriating, partial, and often brilliant literary history. The enemy, as always, is sober rationalism; the poets and poems he praises are characteristically "inward," intuitive, associational, mythic--in short, Romantic. I've always thought Bly's best work was probably his editing. His theories fully satisfy very few for long, including himself, but he's got a stunningly good eye. His selected editions of Stafford and Ignatow, for instance, are the best we have. And his translations, often derided by people who actually speak the languages from which he translates, have nonetheless introduced a lot of Americans to a lot of good international poets. ======================================== David Graham grahamd@ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.mac.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== On Oct 31, 2008, at 12:04 PM, Halvard Johnson wrote: > The term "deep image," I believe, was intended to resonate with > the Spanish "canto hondo." > > More here: > > http://books.google.com/books?id=XxXsPIvHKUUC&pg=PA16&lpg=PA16&dq=% > 22deep+image%22+%22canto+hondo%22&source=bl&ots=GeWvjn7C0J&sig=sP- > GIcumHsgIFjye0io7O4I_X7Q&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=1&ct=result# > PPA15,M1 > > > McCain / Palin -- Just say thanks but no thanks. > They're a bridge to nowhere. > > Halvard Johnson > ================ > halvard@earthlink.net > halvard@gmail.com > http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > http://www.hamiltonstone.org > http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html > > > > On Oct 31, 2008, at 11:53 AM, Bob Grumman wrote: > >> Linda Sue Grimes wrote: >>> >>> It seems that some poets who write about what poetry is supposed >>> to do or what their own does or what they think it does are >>> creating their poetics in order to create an audience. A part >>> of that apologia is that those poets almost always denigrate >>> other poets' works in order to hoist their own. >>> >>> An example is Robert Bly's "deep image" along with his trashing >>> of Robert Lowell; Bly claims that the image is ?natural language >>> of speech? but it ?cannot be drawn from or inserted back into the >>> natural world.? >> I like some of Bly's poems but don't think much of him as a >> thinker. What examples of deep images does he give? Sounds to me >> like images that qualify as deep are images he likes, those that >> don't qualify are images he doesn't like. >> >> Does he present a rigorous definition of "deep image?" I have an >> idea of it as simply an image with a strong archetypal resonance-- >> i.e., it connects to deep human concerns like life and death, the >> change of seasons, reproduction. >> >>> His claim motivates the question: is "artificial language of >>> speech" that which "can be drawn from and inserted back into the >>> natural world"? Or would it be the "artificial" world? Is a >>> blubstinspludor upon a frile fling "a deep image"? Can it be >>> stuck back into the natural world? Why not, even though I just >>> make it up? But then is it the natural language of speech? >> Good questions. What can't be re-inserted into the natural world? >> >>> >>> Are "the quick sharp scratch" or ?Grisly, foul, and terrific / is >>> the speech of bones? examples of "natural language of speech"? >>> Not according to Bly, because they are "drawn from" and also can >>> be "inserted back into the natural world." >> Even if this were true, so what? Why can't they be of value, >> anyway. I like "the speech of bones" and would call it as good an >> image as any, whether "deep" or "shallow." >>> >>> Bly uses Robert Lowell as his target for scorn; quoting Lowell's >>> "For the Union Dead," Bly quotes several passages that he >>> particularly despises, calling them ?coarse and ugly,? >>> ?unimaginative,? and then explains that Lowell is counterfeiting, >>> ?pretending to be saying passionate things . . . , and the >>> passage means nothing at all.? >>> >>> Bly also claims, ?. . . for American readers are so far from >>> standing at the center of themselves that they can?t tell when a >>> man is counterfeiting and when he isn?t.? It seems this remark >>> opens Bly up the charge that he may, in fact, be the >>> counterfeiter. Because even if he is, his American readers are >>> too dull to be able to discern it. Thus, he founds a career on a >>> poetics he created solely for that purpose--certainly not in >>> service to poetry and readers--while denigrating Robert Lowell in >>> the process. >>> >> I think Lowell over-rated in his lifetime and under-rated now. >> I'd put him in the second rank of American poets. Maybe Bly is >> there, too, but he may only be in the third rank. He certainly >> isn't up with Pound, Cummings, Roethke, Stevens and the other >> known poets I consider in the first rank of American Poets. I >> don't think either Lowell or Bly was "counterfeiting," unless all >> poets do that. >> >> Just some thoughts back at you, LS. >> >> --Bob >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081031/e4b04e39/attachment-0001.html ------------------------------ Message: 8 Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2008 13:27:39 -0500 From: Bob Grumman Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Poetic Justice To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views" Message-ID: <490B4E1B.2080900@nut-n-but.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" John Jeffrey wrote: > Bob, > > I didn't mean to give the impression that I was attacking your kind of > art, and I apologize if you felt that. I only disagree with the > definition of creativity. I wouldn't have the snowballs to attack > your fort because, to be honest, I don't understand New Poetry. I've > tried. I've read it. I've read theory. But I get nothing. > You may simply not have the right genes. No big deal. Some can't make anything of calculus. I can't make anything of string theory. (In fact, like Philistines sneering at abstract-expressionism or visual poetry or language poetry, I tend to think it's incoherent nonsense.) I also fail to appreciate most of Gertrude Stein's work, though I think she was important for path-breaking that others have followed through on to better effect. > And not just the otherstreams, either. Even the major rivers leave me > nodding off on the banks. A few weeks ago, the Writer's Almanac had > one of those yawners that makes me weep at the state of poetry. The > title was "The Poet Goes to Indiana" (by Mary Oliver) and the first > stanza read: > > I'll tell you a half-dozen things > that happened to me > in Indiana > when I went that far west to teach. > You tell me if it was worth it. > > By the time I got to the third line I was thinking, What do I care? > And look at that third line: "In Indiana." In Indiana? That's worthy > of its own line? a principal unit? a piece of the pie? a lego block? a > thought that adds to the whole? Bah! No beauty in the writing. No > form to flatter. No images. No surprises. Nothing but chit-chatty > broken out by grammatical clauses. Bah, I say again. > It's what I call Iowa Plaintext Lyric Poetry (I think--I've given it more than one name). Nothing wrong with it, it's just been standard for too long for it to be possible to be creative in it--though I've done it on occasion. To defend this instance of it, I have to say you're being completely unfair. First off, you have to give the thing time. I don't know the poem, but maybe Oliver is artfully setting her scene, building a dullness to make what she'll lead us to all the more joltingly appealing. The lineation tells us we're experiencing a poem, so we should concentrate, be open-minded, activate all our senses. It also forces us to slow down so we'll have a better chance of full appreciation of whatever genuine poetry we're to eventually reach. (Which, I'd admit, I didn't reach in Williams famous refrigerator poem.) The Indiana line is especially short, so especially non-prose--but it does set up the next line somewhat cleverly, that line speaking of "far west," and taking a long time to get to compared with how quickly we get to Indiana in the preceding line. A little joke--Indiana is not very far west. > And I'd dismiss is except that it's not atypical. Again, I don't see how you can properly give a poem just five lines to appeal to you. > I think we're in a poetic bear market. Those near-empty spaces that > you see if you look at poetry timelines, like the post Milton dirth. > We're in the dirth after a pretty good early 20th century. It's been > trending downward since. (Though I'll admit my tastes are demode.) Now you are attacking me and my pals' late twentieth-century poetry, John--though it's kind of you to imply you may be the one at fault. I would agree that mainstream American poetry since the last group of poets everyone agrees were major (Frost, Eliot, Pound, Stevens, Williams) has dropped off a bit. Some in the next generation like Roethke I consider equal to the ones I just named, but there were not as many of them. The next generation has no one with them in the mainstream, just poets doing the same kind of stuff Frost, Eliot, Pound, Stevens and Williams did. But the last third of the twentieth century has something perhaps unique in American poetry, now that I think of it: otherstream poetry by more than a scattered eccentric or two like Whitman. There's language poetry, which all poetry engagents must come to terms with--and seemingly are, as it now has seats in the Academy of American Poets, and gets work into the Best American Poetry series, etc. There's visual poetry, which has been around longer than language poetry and remains otherstream, but made it into the latest issue of Poetry magazine. There're all kinds of cyber-poetry I can't say much about, as I sink behind the times, myself. There's sound poetry. There's even my specialty, mathematical, practiced by probably no more than a dozen Americans but getting into schools via Betsy Franco's *Mathematickles* for children. Not to mention stuff like haiku that is popular but looked down on. > That's one of the reasons I joined this group: to read contemporary > poets talking about contemporary poetry. I thought that maybe some > understanding would leap from the emails into my eyes. But it's slow > coming. You might try quoting some contemporary poem that gives you trouble in full--maybe alongside a poem you approve of. I don't think too many who post here like to analyze, though, so I don't know how well you'll make out. --Bob G. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081031/ceb09f94/attachment.html ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry End of New-Poetry Digest, Vol 52, Issue 43 ****************************************** -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081101/578961a0/attachment.html From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Sat Nov 1 08:10:41 2008 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:14 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] A note on Otoliths In-Reply-To: <267196.54387.qm@web50509.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <200810311453.m9VErwnK012611@wiz.cath.vt.edu> <267196.54387.qm@web50509.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4b65c2d70811010610t4d27a116y3426aff12b27c01c@mail.gmail.com> I particularly like your Homage to Stauffacher Thank you (my name is Anny ! pronounced as in any, anything, anywhere, anybody, anyone _yes, a lack of a well defined personality has characterized me since the very beginning...) thanks again, Anny On Sat, Nov 1, 2008 at 12:28 PM, Jorgensen, Alexander wrote: > Just a public thank you to Annie - for being there. Too, an apology for > listing Otoliths before its official "live" date. I received a Google alert > and assumed it meant Mark Young's wonderful journal went online earlier than > his careful eye. > > Alex > > -- > Tennessee Williams: "A vacuum is a hell of a lot better than some of the > stuff that nature replaces it with." > > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081101/d4b2ece7/attachment.html From jbalizsprince at googlemail.com Sat Nov 1 12:24:16 2008 From: jbalizsprince at googlemail.com (Judy Prince) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:14 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetic Justice In-Reply-To: <490AE653.6040608@nut-n-but.net> References: <676762.85739.qm@web54108.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <490A6630.8010103@nut-n-but.net> <7db1d01b0810302059q295f412bo8e6d585fcc63c681@mail.gmail.com> <490AE653.6040608@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <7db1d01b0811011024m29f07113paba60532ca991fab@mail.gmail.com> I love Pollock's drip paintings, as do most folk who know his work. Spent a wonderful summer some 20 yrs ago reading all I could find about JP as well as Franz Kline and Mark Rothko, all whose works appealed to me. Two bits I recall from a fascinating bio of JP re his drip paintings were, first, his participating in and being encouraged to fling and spatter new kinds of 'paints' by Mexican muralist David Alfaro Siqueiros', and, second, Pollock as a kid with his father and brothers, pissing on [thereby creating designs on] rocks somewhere in the Southwest [USA]. BTW, Bob, I know a little about visual art; I'm a published illustrator. Regarding my using Warhol and Pollock as examples of less-than-Breathtaking artists, I'm applying my own theory that Breathtaking art requires two elements: fresh and meaningful contexts. Naturally, we revert to your discussion earlier about HOW creative an artist is. Since all artists 'borrow' from other artists or non-artists, we try to assess how they've 'gone beyond' the influences, how their work differs from them. That's one bit. The other is less intellectual: How are those fresh 'takes' meaningfully contexted? Regarding the two elements of 'fresh' and 'meaningful', we'll have a continuum of opinions. You find JP on the Breathtaking end; I don't. Enjoyable discussion, this. Best, Judy 2008/10/31 Bob Grumman > Judy Prince wrote: > >> You both, interestingly, may be dealing with two dimensions which most >> folk, perhaps unconsciously, regard as essential to creative works, the >> dimensions together which are necessary and sufficient hallmarks of >> creativity: fresh and meaningful contexts. In poetry, it'd be new >> juxtapositions of things [usually in figures] and these in insightful >> habitations. >> > I almost fully agree--except that "new juxtapositions of things," for me, > is at the lowest level of creativity if one is using standard ways of > juxtaposition. > >> If the poetry surprises in its figures and/or its forms without [I keep >> searching for a word here] a meaningful .... inspired .... deep-felt/thought >> foundation, it may strike us as clever, perhaps witty, or even stunning, but >> more flashy than memorable. New ways for us to see things, yes. But >> creative with a capital C? No. A sheen, a surface, a magic-work, at best. >> Warhol, p'raps Pollack, in fine art. And then there is the >> Breathtaking----a profound unity of new visits. >> >> > Exactly--except that if you have any doubt about whether Pollock (the > spelling of whose name I always have to check before writing it) was > maximally creative, you don't know anything about visual art. > > > --Bob G. > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081101/e083954e/attachment.html From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sat Nov 1 14:59:35 2008 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:14 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetic Justice In-Reply-To: <7db1d01b0811011024m29f07113paba60532ca991fab@mail.gmail.com> References: <676762.85739.qm@web54108.mail.re2.yahoo.com><490A6630.8010103@nut-n-but.net><7db1d01b0810302059q295f412bo8e6d585fcc6 3c681@mail.gmail.com><490AE653.6040608@nut-n-but.net> <7db1d01b0811011024m29f07113paba60532ca991fab@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <490CB527.1090307@nut-n-but.net> Judy Prince wrote: > I love Pollock's drip paintings, as do most folk who know his work. > Spent a wonderful summer some 20 yrs ago reading all I could find > about JP as well as Franz Kline and Mark Rothko, all whose works > appealed to me. Two bits I recall from a fascinating bio of JP re his > drip paintings were, first, his participating in and being encouraged > to fling and spatter new kinds of 'paints' by Mexican muralist David > Alfaro Siqueiros', and, second, Pollock as a kid with his father and > brothers, pissing on [thereby creating designs on] rocks somewhere in > the Southwest [USA]. > > BTW, Bob, I know a little about visual art; I'm a published illustrator. > > Regarding my using Warhol and Pollock as examples of > less-than-Breathtaking artists, I'm applying my own theory that > Breathtaking art requires two elements: fresh and meaningful contexts. What would you call Pollock's? To me, his first of two breakthroughs was into freeing the brush from the brush&canvas fusion. It seems a small thing, but it was major, like van Gogh's loosening the brush&canvas fusion. Result of both: greater visceral expressiveness. Pollock's second breakthrough was to dance paintings, or express muscularity into painting. Consequently, he was first to reach the ultimate primitive layer at the bottom of all art. The context is the sequence of painting from representationality to impressionism to expressionism to so-called abstract art to abstract expressionism. I don't see how you can deny his final step in this sequence the highest freshness and meaningfulness. > Naturally, we revert to your discussion earlier about HOW creative an > artist is. Since all artists 'borrow' from other artists or > non-artists, we try to assess how they've 'gone beyond' the > influences, how their work differs from them. That's one bit. The > other is less intellectual: How are those fresh 'takes' meaningfully > contexted? Regarding the two elements of 'fresh' and 'meaningful', > we'll have a continuum of opinions. You find JP on the Breathtaking > end; I don't. What painters do you put at the Breathtaking end? > > Enjoyable discussion, this. I think so, too, thanks to you and Linda Sue. --Bob From jbalizsprince at googlemail.com Sat Nov 1 15:24:54 2008 From: jbalizsprince at googlemail.com (Judy Prince) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:14 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetic Justice In-Reply-To: <490CB527.1090307@nut-n-but.net> References: <676762.85739.qm@web54108.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <490A6630.8010103@nut-n-but.net> <490AE653.6040608@nut-n-but.net> <7db1d01b0811011024m29f07113paba60532ca991fab@mail.gmail.com> <490CB527.1090307@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <7db1d01b0811011324j6011843cm4e8faf4a66c780b2@mail.gmail.com> Indeed it would be a cool thing about JP's breakthroughs, if he'd done them before his teacher Thomas Hart Benton and before the Way Muscular murals of Orozco and Siqueiros [S who showed JP in that experimental workshop in 1936 the pour'y 'paints', liquid ceramic, as well as the throw, spatter, and drip techniques] and if all of his buddies hadn't been doing AbEx. A situation of questionable eminence rather like Picasso whose rep's founded upon the art he did in response to seeing African masks. Pollock continually wondered if he were a Real Artist, or just a maker of wallpaper patterns. I rather love a few of those wallpaper patterns. And I'm fascinated with the bold black calligraphic paintings of Franz Kline, his reaction to Japanese brush writing-painting, which is a reaction to Chinese brush writing-painting. Kline's mother said about him and the black paint [I'll have to paraphrase]: "Just like Franz, always taking the easy way." One can only imagine what Rothko's mother would've said. So far, dear Bob, I've found plenty of paintings which're stunning and/or beautiful, and brilliantly skillfully done, but none which, to me, are Breathtaking. I'd love to find a fine artwork that brings the ecstasy and weeping of Jessye Norman's singing 'Dove Sono' back in the 80s. Some poetry, though, does Breathtaking----thank goodness! Judy 2008/11/1 Bob Grumman > Judy Prince wrote: > >> I love Pollock's drip paintings, as do most folk who know his work. Spent >> a wonderful summer some 20 yrs ago reading all I could find about JP as well >> as Franz Kline and Mark Rothko, all whose works appealed to me. Two bits I >> recall from a fascinating bio of JP re his drip paintings were, first, his >> participating in and being encouraged to fling and spatter new kinds of >> 'paints' by Mexican muralist David Alfaro Siqueiros', and, second, Pollock >> as a kid with his father and brothers, pissing on [thereby creating designs >> on] rocks somewhere in the Southwest [USA]. >> BTW, Bob, I know a little about visual art; I'm a published illustrator. >> >> Regarding my using Warhol and Pollock as examples of >> less-than-Breathtaking artists, I'm applying my own theory that Breathtaking >> art requires two elements: fresh and meaningful contexts. >> > What would you call Pollock's? To me, his first of two breakthroughs was > into freeing the brush from the brush&canvas fusion. It seems a small > thing, but it was major, like van Gogh's loosening the brush&canvas fusion. > Result of both: greater visceral expressiveness. Pollock's second > breakthrough was to dance paintings, or express muscularity into painting. > Consequently, he was first to reach the ultimate primitive layer at the > bottom of all art. The context is the sequence of painting from > representationality to impressionism to expressionism to so-called abstract > art to abstract expressionism. I don't see how you can deny his final step > in this sequence the highest freshness and meaningfulness. > >> Naturally, we revert to your discussion earlier about HOW creative an >> artist is. Since all artists 'borrow' from other artists or non-artists, we >> try to assess how they've 'gone beyond' the influences, how their work >> differs from them. That's one bit. The other is less intellectual: How >> are those fresh 'takes' meaningfully contexted? Regarding the two elements >> of 'fresh' and 'meaningful', we'll have a continuum of opinions. You find >> JP on the Breathtaking end; I don't. >> > What painters do you put at the Breathtaking end? > >> >> Enjoyable discussion, this. >> > I think so, too, thanks to you and Linda Sue. > > --Bob > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081101/94b051e6/attachment.html From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sat Nov 1 17:15:03 2008 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:14 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetic Justice In-Reply-To: <7db1d01b0811011324j6011843cm4e8faf4a66c780b2@mail.gmail.com> References: <676762.85739.qm@web54108.mail.re2.yahoo.com><490A6630.8010103@nut-n-but.net> <490AE653.6040608@nut-n-but.net><7db1d01b0811011024m29f07113paba60532ca991fab@mail.gmail.com><490CB527.1090307@nut-n-but.net> <7db1d01b0811011324j6011843cm4e8faf4a66c780b2@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <490CD4E7.3040108@nut-n-but.net> Judy Prince wrote: > Indeed it would be a cool thing about JP's breakthroughs, if he'd done > them before his teacher Thomas Hart Benton and before the Way Muscular > murals of Orozco and Siqueiros [S who showed JP in that experimental > workshop in 1936 the pour'y 'paints', liquid ceramic, as well as the > throw, spatter, and drip techniques] and if all of his buddies hadn't > been doing AbEx. I would say his buddies were doing non-representational painting, not abex. If they were doing abex, they had gotten to where Pollock went. And, sure, other painters splattered and dripped at times, in otherwise conventionally representational pictures (albeit far from photo-realism) but he took it to the final extreme, producing complete pictures with it. > A situation of questionable eminence rather like Picasso whose rep's > founded upon the art he did in response to seeing African masks. Not for me. What he did was marry primitive visual art to traditional painting, with the addition of a lot of other stuff from, for example, Cezanne. He was no more indebted to the African masks than Klee (my favorite painter although I don't consider him the most important painter ever) was to children's painting. > > Pollock continually wondered if he were a Real Artist, or just a maker > of wallpaper patterns. I rather love a few of those wallpaper patterns. > > And I'm fascinated with the bold black calligraphic paintings of Franz > Kline, his reaction to Japanese brush writing-painting, which is a > reaction to Chinese brush writing-painting. Kline's mother said about > him and the black paint [I'll have to paraphrase]: "Just like Franz, > always taking the easy way." One can only imagine what Rothko's > mother would've said. > > So far, dear Bob, I've found plenty of paintings which're stunning > and/or beautiful, and brilliantly skillfully done, but none which, to > me, are Breathtaking. > > I'd love to find a fine artwork that brings the ecstasy and weeping of > Jessye Norman's singing 'Dove Sono' back in the 80s. > > Some poetry, though, does Breathtaking----thank goodness! > Well, it's apples and oranges to me. I like each of the major arts about equally, but differently--although, yes, music is the most important to me. --Bob From editor at eratiopostmodernpoetry.com Sat Nov 1 16:25:07 2008 From: editor at eratiopostmodernpoetry.com (=?iso-8859-1?Q?e=B7ratio?=) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:15 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] a noun sing =?iso-8859-1?q?e=B7ratio_11_=B7_2008?= Message-ID: <63588.74.73.230.53.1225574707.squirrel@webmail1.web.com> a noun sing e?ratio 11 ?2008 http://www.eratiopostmodernpoetry.com with poetry by David Appelbaum, Donald Wellman, Mary Ann Sullivan, Joseph F. Keppler, Patrick Lawler, James Stotts, David Annwn, David Rushmer, Melanie Brazzell, Jennifer Juneau, John M. Bennett, Geof Huth, John Mercuri Dooley, Mark Cunningham, Derek Owens, Gautam Verma, and Clark Lunberry http://www.eratiopostmodernpoetry.com edited by gregory vincent st. thomasino e? From JforJames at aol.com Sat Nov 1 16:35:05 2008 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames@aol.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:15 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Bishop-Lowell Letters Message-ID: _http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/02/books/review/Logan-t.html?ref=books_ (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/02/books/review/Logan-t.html?ref=books) Words in Air? collects the letters between Robert Lowell and Elizabeth Bishop, from a few months after they met at a dinner party in 1947 to a few weeks before his death of a heart attack 30 years later, a correspondence conducted across continents and oceans as their poetry drove them together and their lives kept them apart. As poets, Lowell and Bishop could not have been more different. **************Plan your next getaway with AOL Travel. Check out Today's Hot 5 Travel Deals! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1212416248x1200771803/aol?redir=http://travel.aol.com/discount-travel?ncid=emlcntustrav00000001) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081101/4a571a08/attachment.html From JforJames at aol.com Sat Nov 1 16:44:36 2008 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames@aol.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:15 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Dylan's last days in America Message-ID: _http://www.walesonline.co.uk/showbiz-and-lifestyle/news/2008/11/01/what-kille d-dylan-thomas-91466-22163229/_ (http://www.walesonline.co.uk/showbiz-and-lifestyle/news/2008/11/01/what-killed-dylan-thomas-91466-22163229/) He died a needless death. Not surprisingly, a cover-up was put in place to protect those responsible. Even one of his American biographers agreed to conceal the truth. It?s a tragic tale of how a sick poet was exploited for financial gain and academic prestige. (http://www.walesonline.co.uk/showbiz-and-lifestyle/news/2008/11/01/what-killed-dylan-thomas-91466-0/) **************Plan your next getaway with AOL Travel. Check out Today's Hot 5 Travel Deals! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1212416248x1200771803/aol?redir=http://travel.aol.com/discount-travel?ncid=emlcntustrav00000001) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081101/80cd066e/attachment.html From Opus40-01 at opus40.org Sat Nov 1 16:48:13 2008 From: Opus40-01 at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:15 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Bishop-Lowell Letters In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <490CCE9D.10005@opus40.org> As poets, Lowell and Bishop could not have been more different. Sure they could. How about Lowell and Grumman? JforJames@aol.com wrote: > http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/02/books/review/Logan-t.html?ref=books > > Words in Air? collects the letters between Robert Lowell and Elizabeth > Bishop, from a few months after they met at a dinner party in 1947 to > a few weeks before his death of a heart attack 30 years later, a > correspondence conducted across continents and oceans as their poetry > drove them together and their lives kept them apart. As poets, Lowell > and Bishop could not have been more different. > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Plan your next getaway with AOL Travel. Check out Today's Hot 5 Travel > Deals! > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ Don't forget to order your copy of FILM NOIR! http://stores.lulu.com/store.php?fAcctID=2712239 From JforJames at aol.com Sat Nov 1 16:49:24 2008 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames@aol.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:15 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Boss's Yellowrocket Message-ID: _http://www.twincities.com/ci_10870208_ (http://www.twincities.com/ci_10870208) Poet lands book deal with major publisher Major publisher picks up collection By Mary Ann Grossmann Boss, who admits he started writing poetry "to woo girls," has a right to be proud of his achievement. Most American poets are published by small publishers or literary presses, and even experienced poets are not often published in hardcover. "I would have been happy to just have my first collection published ? period," Boss said. "I'd have been happy with a small press. I certainly would never have sent my manuscript to Norton. I believed them to be out of my league. But all kinds of important people were talking about me at the right time, and it all came to a head when they got Norton's attention." **************Plan your next getaway with AOL Travel. Check out Today's Hot 5 Travel Deals! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1212416248x1200771803/aol?redir=http://travel.aol.com/discount-travel?ncid=emlcntustrav00000001) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081101/893d3107/attachment.html From jbalizsprince at googlemail.com Sat Nov 1 17:13:36 2008 From: jbalizsprince at googlemail.com (Judy Prince) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:15 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetic Justice In-Reply-To: <490CD4E7.3040108@nut-n-but.net> References: <676762.85739.qm@web54108.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <490A6630.8010103@nut-n-but.net> <490AE653.6040608@nut-n-but.net> <7db1d01b0811011024m29f07113paba60532ca991fab@mail.gmail.com> <490CB527.1090307@nut-n-but.net> <7db1d01b0811011324j6011843cm4e8faf4a66c780b2@mail.gmail.com> <490CD4E7.3040108@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <7db1d01b0811011513i3b762a5fx39449fe0cf51079a@mail.gmail.com> Hey, Bob, Just post-birthday party [5 yr old grandboys] ruminatings: Choose whatever word you want for Breathtaking, and somehow tell me [this is an invite to any NP'ers, of course] with not so much who was influenced by whom, or poet-critic jargon---just whole poems---what works as 'Breathtaking' or near-Breathtaking, poetically, for you. And as someone [sorry, forgot who] suggested, if you want, to put poems side-by-side or under one a nother for illustrating the "why's" for your liking one poem more than the other. I'm thinking that we're each of us a bit terrified to face the responses to our choices. Easier to flail about happily with painting critiques and preferences than our Real Love [which's I assume our reason for being on this and other poetry lists]. I'm totally afraid to offer my choices; it'll be like initiating a public flogging of my children! So you start. I pledge to follow!!!! Judy 2008/11/1 Bob Grumman > Judy Prince wrote: > >> Indeed it would be a cool thing about JP's breakthroughs, if he'd done >> them before his teacher Thomas Hart Benton and before the Way Muscular >> murals of Orozco and Siqueiros [S who showed JP in that experimental >> workshop in 1936 the pour'y 'paints', liquid ceramic, as well as the throw, >> spatter, and drip techniques] and if all of his buddies hadn't been doing >> AbEx. >> > I would say his buddies were doing non-representational painting, not abex. > If they were doing abex, they had gotten to where Pollock went. And, sure, > other painters splattered and dripped at times, in otherwise conventionally > representational pictures (albeit far from photo-realism) but he took it to > the final extreme, producing complete pictures with it. > >> A situation of questionable eminence rather like Picasso whose rep's >> founded upon the art he did in response to seeing African masks. >> > Not for me. What he did was marry primitive visual art to traditional > painting, with the addition of a lot of other stuff from, for example, > Cezanne. He was no more indebted to the African masks than Klee (my > favorite painter although I don't consider him the most important painter > ever) was to children's painting. > >> >> Pollock continually wondered if he were a Real Artist, or just a maker of >> wallpaper patterns. I rather love a few of those wallpaper patterns. >> >> And I'm fascinated with the bold black calligraphic paintings of Franz >> Kline, his reaction to Japanese brush writing-painting, which is a reaction >> to Chinese brush writing-painting. Kline's mother said about him and the >> black paint [I'll have to paraphrase]: "Just like Franz, always taking the >> easy way." One can only imagine what Rothko's mother would've said. >> >> So far, dear Bob, I've found plenty of paintings which're stunning and/or >> beautiful, and brilliantly skillfully done, but none which, to me, are >> Breathtaking. >> >> I'd love to find a fine artwork that brings the ecstasy and weeping of >> Jessye Norman's singing 'Dove Sono' back in the 80s. >> >> Some poetry, though, does Breathtaking----thank goodness! >> >> Well, it's apples and oranges to me. I like each of the major arts about > equally, but differently--although, yes, music is the most important to me. > > > > --Bob > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081101/7869b5e9/attachment.html From halvard at earthlink.net Sat Nov 1 17:40:01 2008 From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:15 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Dylan's last days in America In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: All deaths are needless--as are all lives. Hal McCain / Palin -- Just say thanks but no thanks. They're a bridge to nowhere. Halvard Johnson ================ halvard@earthlink.net halvard@gmail.com http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html On Nov 1, 2008, at 3:44 PM, JforJames@aol.com wrote: > http://www.walesonline.co.uk/showbiz-and-lifestyle/news/2008/11/01/what-killed-dylan-thomas-91466-22163229/ > > He died a needless death. Not surprisingly, a cover-up was put in > place to protect those responsible. Even one of his American > biographers agreed to conceal the truth. It?s a tragic tale of how a > sick poet was exploited for financial gain and academic prestige. > > > > > > Plan your next getaway with AOL Travel. Check out Today's Hot 5 > Travel Deals! > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081101/fdf72d70/attachment.html From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sat Nov 1 18:49:16 2008 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:15 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetic Justice In-Reply-To: <7db1d01b0811011513i3b762a5fx39449fe0cf51079a@mail.gmail.com> References: <676762.85739.qm@web54108.mail.re2.yahoo.com><490A6630.8010103@nut-n-but.net> <490AE653.6040608@nut-n-but.net><7db1d01b0811011024m29f07113paba60532ca991fab@mail.gmail.com><490CB527.1090307@nut-n-but.net>< 7db1d01b0811011324j6011843cm4e8faf4a66c780b2@mail.gmail.com><490CD4E7.3040108@nut-n-but.net> <7db1d01b0811011513i3b762a5fx39449fe0cf51079a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <490CEAFC.8040701@nut-n-but.net> A breath-taking poem, Judy? Too easy for me. All I have to do is repeat my many posts here and elsewhere about "lighght." Breath-taking--when I have to emphasize, I first read it. No poem, or any work of art, remains eternally breath-taking for me. Why? Because it was a pioneering minimalist poem, done when no one else was seriously engaged in making one-word poems--though it's possible (I don't know) that others had done one or two), and the idea of trying for maximum intensity in a minimum of text was new and potent. Even more important, I'm fairly sure it was the first poem to exploit silent letters metaphorically for its central aesthetic effect. Third, it was a good minor concrete poem, aside from its being a major infra-verbal poem (poem dependent on what happens inside words rather than between words). Fourth, it is a brilliant (and original) expression of light silently expanding. By itself on a page, it makes those appreciating it experience the awesome magnitude of mere light, which is probably the most important thing in existence. Something similar happened to me when I caught on to Cummings's falling leaf poem. I was knocked into what I call "Manywhere-at-Once," which is being (literally, I believe) in more than one fully-felt generally-rigorously disconnected compartments of your brain at once. Lots of other poems have done this to me, most of them very well-known, but some not (including a few of my own!) I mention the short ones because it'd take too long to get into the longer ones. One last shortie: Basho's haiku about the old pond. But I think it may be that there are poems that don't click the way these do for me that are in other ways as valuable--Frost's "Stopping By the Woods," for instance. . . . --Bob G. From AlMaginnes at aol.com Sat Nov 1 18:06:37 2008 From: AlMaginnes at aol.com (AlMaginnes@aol.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:15 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Boss's Yellowrocket Message-ID: Once again proving that I just don't get it. All the poets in America and this is what Norton wants? **************Plan your next getaway with AOL Travel. Check out Today's Hot 5 Travel Deals! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1212416248x1200771803/aol?redir=http://travel.aol.com/discount-travel?ncid=emlcntustrav00000001) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081101/cc90ab94/attachment.html From halvard at earthlink.net Sat Nov 1 18:06:55 2008 From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:15 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetic Justice In-Reply-To: <490CEAFC.8040701@nut-n-but.net> References: <676762.85739.qm@web54108.mail.re2.yahoo.com><490A6630.8010103@nut-n-but.net> <490AE653.6040608@nut-n-but.net><7db1d01b0811011024m29f07113paba60532ca991fab@mail.gmail.com><490CB527.1090307@nut-n-but.net>< 7db1d01b0811011324j6011843cm4e8faf4a66c780b2@mail.gmail.com><490CD4E7.3040108@nut-n-but.net> <7db1d01b0811011513i3b762a5fx39449fe0cf51079a@mail.gmail.com> <490CEAFC.8040701@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <4B8D691F-2BFE-4663-AFD6-E2AAF3E330A8@earthlink.net> You need to get out more, Bob. Or maybe stay in more. Hal McCain / Palin -- Just say thanks but no thanks. They're a bridge to nowhere. Halvard Johnson ================ halvard@earthlink.net halvard@gmail.com http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html On Nov 1, 2008, at 5:49 PM, Bob Grumman wrote: > A breath-taking poem, Judy? Too easy for me. All I have to do is > repeat my many posts here and elsewhere about "lighght." Breath- > taking--when I have to emphasize, I first read it. No poem, or any > work of art, remains eternally breath-taking for me. From robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com Sat Nov 1 18:21:47 2008 From: robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com (Robin Hamilton) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:15 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetic Justice In-Reply-To: <490CEAFC.8040701@nut-n-but.net> References: <676762.85739.qm@web54108.mail.re2.yahoo.com><490A6630.8010103@nut-n-but.net><490AE653.6040608@nut-n-but.net><7db1d01b0811011024m29f07113paba60532ca991fab@mail.gmail.com><490CB527.1090307@nut-n-but.net><7db1d01b0811011324j6011843cm4e8faf4a66c780b2@mail.gmail.com><490CD4E7.3040108@nut-n-but.net><7db1d01b0811011513i3b762a5fx39449fe0cf51079a@mail.gmail.com> <490CEAFC.8040701@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <9420D1473DA148F496871852C223E2FC@RobinPC> >A breath-taking poem, Judy? Too easy for me. All I have to do is repeat >my many posts here and elsewhere about "lighght." Breath-taking--when I >have to emphasize, I first read it. No poem, or any work of art, remains >eternally breath-taking for me. When did "lighght" first see the light, Bob? Wasn't Ian Hamilton Finlay doing the same thing (and more) with work coming out of the Hand&Flower Press as early as the sixties? I really can't see how "lighght" doesn't simply recap some of the general tropes of the original Concrete Poetry movement. And if it comes to creative use of mis-spellings, what about Edwin Morgan's "Interferences"? Robin From jbalizsprince at googlemail.com Sat Nov 1 19:37:21 2008 From: jbalizsprince at googlemail.com (Judy Prince) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:15 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetic Justice In-Reply-To: <9420D1473DA148F496871852C223E2FC@RobinPC> References: <676762.85739.qm@web54108.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <490A6630.8010103@nut-n-but.net> <490AE653.6040608@nut-n-but.net> <7db1d01b0811011024m29f07113paba60532ca991fab@mail.gmail.com> <490CB527.1090307@nut-n-but.net> <7db1d01b0811011324j6011843cm4e8faf4a66c780b2@mail.gmail.com> <490CD4E7.3040108@nut-n-but.net> <7db1d01b0811011513i3b762a5fx39449fe0cf51079a@mail.gmail.com> <490CEAFC.8040701@nut-n-but.net> <9420D1473DA148F496871852C223E2FC@RobinPC> Message-ID: <7db1d01b0811011737m8d3c026u7d7bbe5fd93eb8d@mail.gmail.com> ;-) ;-) What would I do for a bellyful of laffs if not for youse guys?!!! I'm gonna get out more, or stay in more----but not with Bob. Judy who can't stop laughing! Thanks! 2008/11/1 Robin Hamilton > A breath-taking poem, Judy? Too easy for me. All I have to do is repeat >> my many posts here and elsewhere about "lighght." Breath-taking--when I >> have to emphasize, I first read it. No poem, or any work of art, remains >> eternally breath-taking for me. >> > > When did "lighght" first see the light, Bob? Wasn't Ian Hamilton Finlay > doing the same thing (and more) with work coming out of the Hand&Flower > Press as early as the sixties? > > I really can't see how "lighght" doesn't simply recap some of the general > tropes of the original Concrete Poetry movement. > > And if it comes to creative use of mis-spellings, what about Edwin Morgan's > "Interferences"? > > Robin > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081101/35705973/attachment.html From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sat Nov 1 20:42:36 2008 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:15 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetic Justice In-Reply-To: <9420D1473DA148F496871852C223E2FC@RobinPC> References: <676762.85739.qm@web54108.mail.re2.yahoo.com><490A6630.8010103@nut-n-but.net><490AE653.6040608@nut-n-but.net><7db1d01 b0811011024m29f07113paba60532ca991fab@mail.gmail.com><490CB527.1090307@nut-n-but.net><7db1d01b0811011324j6011843cm4e8faf4a66c78 0b2@mail.gmail.com><490CD4E7.3040108@nut-n-but.net><7db1d01b0811011513i3b762a5fx39449fe0cf51079a@mail.gmail.com><490CEAFC.80407 01@nut-n-but.net> <9420D1473DA148F496871852C223E2FC@RobinPC> Message-ID: <490D058C.3030005@nut-n-but.net> Robin Hamilton wrote: >> A breath-taking poem, Judy? Too easy for me. All I have to do is >> repeat my many posts here and elsewhere about "lighght." >> Breath-taking--when I have to emphasize, I first read it. No poem, >> or any work of art, remains eternally breath-taking for me. > > When did "lighght" first see the light, Bob? Wasn't Ian Hamilton > Finlay doing the same thing (and more) with work coming out of the > Hand&Flower Press as early as the sixties? Middle sixties, I think. I don't think Finlay was doing one-word poems. Or what I call infra-verbal poems. Nut I'm no expert on his work. > > I really can't see how "lighght" doesn't simply recap some of the > general tropes of the original Concrete Poetry movement. Only the visual metaphor of the stretched word comes from concrete poetry, and it's secondary. That the "gh" is silent is 90% of the poem, and original. A text capturing the sound of silence in motion. > > And if it comes to creative use of mis-spellings, what about Edwin > Morgan's "Interferences"? > Joyce would be the true progenitor. But Saroyan minimalized the misspellings. Dunno what Morgan did in this line. Of course, whom to credit for originalities is always difficult. I would say that if Saroyan wasn't the originator of this kind of thing, he was an originator, and brought it to its highest point. Originality is important but full exploitation of the new is also important. --Bob From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sat Nov 1 21:11:50 2008 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:15 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Bishop-Lowell Letters In-Reply-To: <490CCE9D.10005@opus40.org> References: <490CCE9D.10005@opus40.org> Message-ID: <490D0C66.7070805@nut-n-but.net> TheOldMole wrote: > As poets, Lowell and Bishop could not have been more different. > > Sure they could. How about Lowell and Grumman? > Hmmm, one more New-Poet Member now knows that Wilshbury is not the whole of poetry. Congrats, Mole! --Bob From chan_jt at hotmail.com Sat Nov 1 21:54:25 2008 From: chan_jt at hotmail.com (JT Chan) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:15 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] New Issue of Numinous: Spiritual Poetry Message-ID: Issue 2 Numinous: Spiritual Poetry http://numinousmagazine.wordpress.com New poems by Sally Rosen Kindred Mary Owens Zhuang Yisa Changming Yuan Peter Schwartz Nicholas Karavatos Ingrid Andersen Wendy Vardaman Janice Vernon Daniel Zimmerman Anne Higgins Submissions for Issue 3 now open. Send 4-6 poems, along with a short bio, to numinousmagazine@yahoo.com _________________________________________________________________ From jbalizsprince at googlemail.com Sat Nov 1 22:59:18 2008 From: jbalizsprince at googlemail.com (Judy Prince) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:16 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetic Justice In-Reply-To: <916221.99110.qm@web54108.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <916221.99110.qm@web54108.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <7db1d01b0811012059j29fc8c88u7afcd57e3a0a1510@mail.gmail.com> Of course, John, everything you've said, and I quite like how you said it, too. I'm a virgin reader of Mary Oliver, having read 4 lines of hers which I liked, from I guess [sent to me by a friend on 2 different collaged postcards] a couple different poems, as well as the lines of hers you've pasted in below. If I read more of her work, will I be shockedly impressed at its poetry? I don't think so. But I'd like to read some of your poems. Now then, what is it that you've been wanting to hear from these doltish fellows, Hal Johnson, Robin Hamilton, and the GrumMan and others on this list? [just joined it m'sel' 4 months ago, so not quite sure what's going on yet] OH dear, forgot I'd promised Bob I'd send him a poem I love and label Breathtaking. I label the following poem Tongue-Tinsel and Brain-Reset, with a flying approach to near-Breathtaking: Oct 24, 2008 12:16 AM I love the purring of knowing them by Peter Ciccariello I love the purring of knowing them, So I will be moving the useless telephone Of my monstrous self to the ubiquitous ringtone That has been disrupting everyone's sleep When is a heaven such a useless tell? The letters and burning envelopes Resting so soft and full on the edge of your bedside table Are the only existing explanations of our archeology. Listening to the warm purring of the flames against the laid paper Reminds one how unpredictably disaster follows reticulation These all should arrive in your post next week, the edges of the burning, the purring, and the love. Asking you only to tell them that I am gone, lover, That we found all the evidence lover, and went ahead anyway, with full knowledge of our actions. I scratched all this conveniently in the mahogany On your side of the bed ------------------------------- 2008/10/30 John Jeffrey > Bob, > > I didn't mean to give the impression that I was attacking your kind of art, > and I apologize if you felt that. I only disagree with the definition of > creativity. I wouldn't have the snowballs to attack your fort because, to > be honest, I don't understand New Poetry. I've tried. I've read it. I've > read theory. But I get nothing. > > And not just the otherstreams, either. Even the major rivers leave me > nodding off on the banks. A few weeks ago, the Writer's Almanac had one of > those yawners that makes me weep at the state of poetry. The title was "The > Poet Goes to Indiana" (by Mary Oliver) and the first stanza read: > > I'll tell you a half-dozen things > that happened to me > in Indiana > when I went that far west to teach. > You tell me if it was worth it. > > By the time I got to the third line I was thinking, What do I care? And > look at that third line: "In Indiana." In Indiana? That's worthy of its > own line? a principal unit? a piece of the pie? a lego block? a thought that > adds to the whole? Bah! No beauty in the writing. No form to flatter. No > images. No surprises. Nothing but chit-chatty broken out by grammatical > clauses. Bah, I say again. > > And I'd dismiss is except that it's not atypical. > > I think we're in a poetic bear market. Those near-empty spaces that you > see if you look at poetry timelines, like the post Milton dirth. We're in > the dirth after a pretty good early 20th century. It's been trending > downward since. (Though I'll admit my tastes are demode.) > > That's one of the reasons I joined this group: to read contemporary poets > talking about contemporary poetry. I thought that maybe some understanding > would leap from the emails into my eyes. But it's slow coming. > > John > > > > > ------------------------------ > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081101/669c19d5/attachment.html From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sun Nov 2 06:41:35 2008 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:16 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetic Justice In-Reply-To: <7db1d01b0811012059j29fc8c88u7afcd57e3a0a1510@mail.gmail.com> References: <916221.99110.qm@web54108.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <7db1d01b0811012059j29fc8c88u7afcd57e3a0a1510@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <490D91EF.8050504@nut-n-but.net> > > I label the following poem Tongue-Tinsel and Brain-Reset, with a > flying approach to near-Breathtaking: You're supposed to say why it's breath-taking, Judy. --Bob > > Oct 24, 2008 12:16 AM > > > I love the purring of knowing them > > > by Peter Ciccariello > I love the purring of knowing them, > So I will be moving the useless telephone > Of my monstrous self to the ubiquitous ringtone > That has been disrupting everyone's sleep > When is a heaven such a useless tell? > The letters and burning envelopes > Resting so soft and full on the edge of your bedside table > Are the only existing explanations of our archeology. > Listening to the warm purring of the flames against the laid paper > Reminds one how unpredictably disaster follows reticulation > These all should arrive in your post next week, > the edges of the burning, the purring, and the love. > Asking you only to tell them that I am gone, lover, > That we found all the evidence lover, and went ahead > anyway, with full knowledge of our actions. > I scratched all this conveniently in the mahogany > On your side of the bed > > > ------------------------------- > > > 2008/10/30 John Jeffrey > > > Bob, > > I didn't mean to give the impression that I was attacking your > kind of art, and I apologize if you felt that. I only disagree > with the definition of creativity. I wouldn't have the snowballs > to attack your fort because, to be honest, I don't understand New > Poetry. I've tried. I've read it. I've read theory. But I get > nothing. > > And not just the otherstreams, either. Even the major rivers > leave me nodding off on the banks. A few weeks ago, the Writer's > Almanac had one of those yawners that makes me weep at the state > of poetry. The title was "The Poet Goes to Indiana" (by Mary > Oliver) and the first stanza read: > > I'll tell you a half-dozen things > that happened to me > in Indiana > when I went that far west to teach. > You tell me if it was worth it. > > By the time I got to the third line I was thinking, What do I > care? And look at that third line: "In Indiana." In Indiana? > That's worthy of its own line? a principal unit? a piece of the > pie? a lego block? a thought that adds to the whole? Bah! No > beauty in the writing. No form to flatter. No images. No > surprises. Nothing but chit-chatty broken out by grammatical > clauses. Bah, I say again. > > And I'd dismiss is except that it's not atypical. > > I think we're in a poetic bear market. Those near-empty spaces > that you see if you look at poetry timelines, like the post Milton > dirth. We're in the dirth after a pretty good early 20th > century. It's been trending downward since. (Though I'll admit > my tastes are demode.) > > That's one of the reasons I joined this group: to read > contemporary poets talking about contemporary poetry. I thought > that maybe some understanding would leap from the emails into my > eyes. But it's slow coming. > > John > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081102/dd5e658d/attachment.html From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Sun Nov 2 07:10:33 2008 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:16 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] from the Writer's Almanac Message-ID: <4b65c2d70811020410o6a6eb33cx8b7c6f15b7757f86@mail.gmail.com> To a Leaf Falling in Winter by W. S. Merwin At sundown when a day's words have gathered at the feet of the trees lining up in silence to enter the long corridors of the roots into which they pass one by one thinking that they remember the place as they feel themselves climbing away from their only sound while they are being forgotten by their bright circumstances they rise through all of the rings listening again afterward as they listened once and they come to where the leaves used to live during their lives but have gone now and they too take the next step beyond the reach of meaning "To a Leaf Falling in Winter" by W.S. Merwin from *Present Company*. (c) Copper Canyon Press, 2007. Reprinted with permission. (buy now) It is also the birthday of Marie Antoinette: It's the birthday of *Marie Antoinette *, born in Vienna, Austria, in 1755, child number 15 out of 16 born to the Empress Maria Theresa and the Emperor Francis I. To preserve the alliance between Austria and France, Marie was married to the future king of France, Louis the 16th, when she was 14 years old. Louis and Marie were very different. He loved hunting and eating, and he was introverted. She loved to go out, to dance and gamble. She was beautiful, with long blond hair and perfect posture, and she spent lots of money on fashionable clothes and jewelry, which made her a target for the French people, who were growing increasingly resentful of the monarchy. The French Revolution began in 1789. Marie and Louis were stripped of power, put on trial, and both sentenced to death. Marie Antoinette was executed at the guillotine in October of 1793. Marie Antoinette is one of the most famously misquoted people in history. It was actually an earlier princess, Maria Theresa of Spain, who is quoted as saying, "If there is no bread, let them cake." A thought occurred to me, maybe the Monarchy would have never allowed for the Holocaust to take place. Grumman, if you made it all the way down to here, what do you think? -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081102/ffde53c9/attachment.html From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Sun Nov 2 07:18:23 2008 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:16 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Night of the Living Dead Message-ID: <4b65c2d70811020418m1cee1db6tb1ed216958dc6884@mail.gmail.com> Critic's Pick on The New York Times: http://video.nytimes.com/video/2008/10/27/movies/1194827548973/critics-picks-night-of-the-living-dead.html?WT.mc_id=VI-D-I-NYT-MOD-MOD-M067-ROS-1108-L3&WT.mc_ev=click -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081102/d1076bc6/attachment.html From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Sun Nov 2 07:27:50 2008 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:16 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Wall Street Message-ID: <4b65c2d70811020427xedfe51fhc96562a0433b058f@mail.gmail.com> Critic's Pick with a mention to Milton: http://video.nytimes.com/video/playlist/arts/movies-critics-picks/1194811622317/index.html#1194823301209 -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081102/0f367ddf/attachment.html From jbalizsprince at googlemail.com Sun Nov 2 08:13:23 2008 From: jbalizsprince at googlemail.com (Judy Prince) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:16 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetic Justice In-Reply-To: <490D91EF.8050504@nut-n-but.net> References: <916221.99110.qm@web54108.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <7db1d01b0811012059j29fc8c88u7afcd57e3a0a1510@mail.gmail.com> <490D91EF.8050504@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <7db1d01b0811020513v4a23e59fy230991fc884955c9@mail.gmail.com> Up so early R U, Bob? First read what I said that you copied in below; then let me know that you read it by a unique paraphrase that tells me you understood it. [getting up early in the morning after 14 grueling hours trying to be at least not screamingly obnoxious to twenty 5 yr olds and 18 parents as well as all of my family west of the Mississippi has not been easy and now I hear the sneezing waking noises of an extra mother-in-law, my 5 yr old grandboy who will soon expect the birthday gifts I haven't been able to locate which I'd carefully made and tucked into my luggage 3 days ago do you get my basic point here Bob? I'd rather not repeat myself like I'm now doing simply bcuz females love to talk more than males like to talk] soon, then, if you are still awake and I have magically become human. Judy 2008/11/2 Bob Grumman > > > I label the following poem Tongue-Tinsel and Brain-Reset, with a flying > approach to near-Breathtaking: > > You're supposed to say why it's breath-taking, Judy. > > --Bob > > > Oct 24, 2008 12:16 AM > I love the purring of knowing them > by Peter Ciccariello > I love the purring of knowing them, > So I will be moving the useless telephone > Of my monstrous self to the ubiquitous ringtone > That has been disrupting everyone's sleep > When is a heaven such a useless tell? > The letters and burning envelopes > Resting so soft and full on the edge of your bedside table > Are the only existing explanations of our archeology. > Listening to the warm purring of the flames against the laid paper > Reminds one how unpredictably disaster follows reticulation > These all should arrive in your post next week, > the edges of the burning, the purring, and the love. > Asking you only to tell them that I am gone, lover, > That we found all the evidence lover, and went ahead > anyway, with full knowledge of our actions. > I scratched all this conveniently in the mahogany > On your side of the bed > > > ------------------------------- > > > 2008/10/30 John Jeffrey > >> Bob, >> >> I didn't mean to give the impression that I was attacking your kind of >> art, and I apologize if you felt that. I only disagree with the definition >> of creativity. I wouldn't have the snowballs to attack your fort because, >> to be honest, I don't understand New Poetry. I've tried. I've read it. >> I've read theory. But I get nothing. >> >> And not just the otherstreams, either. Even the major rivers leave me >> nodding off on the banks. A few weeks ago, the Writer's Almanac had one of >> those yawners that makes me weep at the state of poetry. The title was "The >> Poet Goes to Indiana" (by Mary Oliver) and the first stanza read: >> >> I'll tell you a half-dozen things >> that happened to me >> in Indiana >> when I went that far west to teach. >> You tell me if it was worth it. >> >> By the time I got to the third line I was thinking, What do I care? And >> look at that third line: "In Indiana." In Indiana? That's worthy of its >> own line? a principal unit? a piece of the pie? a lego block? a thought that >> adds to the whole? Bah! No beauty in the writing. No form to flatter. No >> images. No surprises. Nothing but chit-chatty broken out by grammatical >> clauses. Bah, I say again. >> >> And I'd dismiss is except that it's not atypical. >> >> I think we're in a poetic bear market. Those near-empty spaces that you >> see if you look at poetry timelines, like the post Milton dirth. We're in >> the dirth after a pretty good early 20th century. It's been trending >> downward since. (Though I'll admit my tastes are demode.) >> >> That's one of the reasons I joined this group: to read contemporary poets >> talking about contemporary poetry. I thought that maybe some understanding >> would leap from the emails into my eyes. But it's slow coming. >> >> John >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> > > ------------------------------ > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing listNew-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.eduhttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081102/37bc58e5/attachment.html From rewatlingjr at comcast.net Sun Nov 2 08:16:08 2008 From: rewatlingjr at comcast.net (robert e. watling jr.) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:16 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetic Justice In-Reply-To: <7db1d01b0811011324j6011843cm4e8faf4a66c780b2@mail.gmail.com> References: <676762.85739.qm@web54108.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <490A6630.8010103@nut-n-but.net> <490AE653.6040608@nut-n-but.net> <7db1d01b0811011024m29f07113paba60532ca991fab@mail.gmail.com> <490CB527.1090307@nut-n-but.net> <7db1d01b0811011324j6011843cm4e8faf4a66c780b2@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 01 Nov 2008 13:24:54 -0700, Judy Prince wrote: > And I'm fascinated with the bold black calligraphic paintings of Franz > Kline, his reaction to Japanese brush writing-painting, which is a > reaction to Chinese brush writing-painting. Kline's mother said about > him and the black paint [I'll have to paraphrase]: "Just like Franz, > always taking the easy way." One can only imagine what Rothko's mother > would've said. I recently went to the Art Museum in Portland, Oregon, my new home town. In one gallery I was continually drawn to a hulking black and white thing. I saw it everytime I turned a corner. I finally came to it in it's own time and it was Kline's Rue. I almost fell into it. Eventually, as I walked away from it, I found on a wall opposite a photograph by Annie Livovitz of Steve Martin in a white suit smeared with black. I gradually realized he was standing in front of that same painting. I looked at the photo, then over my shoulder at the painting and began to feel that I had been drawn into the continuum of the two. Later I found, through the wonder of the internet, that Martin had purchased the painting. Probably no one cares about any of this but your post reminded me of the experience and I am glad to be remembering it. Robert E. Watling -- "Cogito ergo...how does that go again?"...rewjr. From lsgrimes at stonegulch.com Sun Nov 2 08:20:32 2008 From: lsgrimes at stonegulch.com (lsg) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:16 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetics (was Poetic Justice) Message-ID: <670BB2AAB1F943ECA6690713712939EF@LindaSue> I'm wondering if Bob Grumman has invented a new art: it is not poetry at all, but something else entirely. Even though it is related to poetry, it may be so different as to deserve its own category. Like songs and poems are related but are not categorized together. Dance and acrobatics (gymnastics) are related but still different enough to own separate categories of endeavor... Again...just a thought...and you all might have already covered this in depth...as I dip in and out of this list... I might have missed it. lsg PS That situation of inventing new art forms is much different from the cases where thugs beat up on older poets to get their doggerel read. When an artist actually invents a new art, he will probably need to explain it and compare it to its closest cousins. ----- Original Message ----- From: Bob Grumman To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2008 5:49 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Poetic Justice A breath-taking poem, Judy? Too easy for me. All I have to do is repeat my many posts here and elsewhere about "lighght." Breath-taking--when I have to emphasize, I first read it. No poem, or any work of art, remains eternally breath-taking for me. Why? Because it was a pioneering minimalist poem, done when no one else was seriously engaged in making one-word poems--though it's possible (I don't know) that others had done one or two), and the idea of trying for maximum intensity in a minimum of text was new and potent. Even more important, I'm fairly sure it was the first poem to exploit silent letters metaphorically for its central aesthetic effect. Third, it was a good minor concrete poem, aside from its being a major infra-verbal poem (poem dependent on what happens inside words rather than between words). Fourth, it is a brilliant (and original) expression of light silently expanding. By itself on a page, it makes those appreciating it experience the awesome magnitude of mere light, which is probably the most important thing in existence. Something similar happened to me when I caught on to Cummings's falling leaf poem. I was knocked into what I call "Manywhere-at-Once," which is being (literally, I believe) in more than one fully-felt generally-rigorously disconnected compartments of your brain at once. Lots of other poems have done this to me, most of them very well-known, but some not (including a few of my own!) I mention the short ones because it'd take too long to get into the longer ones. One last shortie: Basho's haiku about the old pond. But I think it may be that there are poems that don't click the way these do for me that are in other ways as valuable--Frost's "Stopping By the Woods," for instance. . . . --Bob G. _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081102/6ab31ee3/attachment.html From lsgrimes at stonegulch.com Sun Nov 2 09:04:36 2008 From: lsgrimes at stonegulch.com (lsg) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:16 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Any (? for Anny) References: <4b65c2d70811020410o6a6eb33cx8b7c6f15b7757f86@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <2946CC2E2BC24E028B63894E73055AF8@LindaSue> Anny, Is your name really pronounced "Any" or were you just joshin? lsg (pronounced "el es jee") -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081102/fecb0d82/attachment.html From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Sun Nov 2 09:09:47 2008 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:16 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetics (was Poetic Justice) In-Reply-To: <670BB2AAB1F943ECA6690713712939EF@LindaSue> References: <670BB2AAB1F943ECA6690713712939EF@LindaSue> Message-ID: <4b65c2d70811020609u7976b4b2i12ada78fe581b8b@mail.gmail.com> Re.: Fourth, it is a brilliant (and original) expression of light silently expanding. By itself on a page, it makes those appreciating it experience the awesome magnitude of mere light, which is probably the most important thing in existence. Light in Poetry: which is not Light Poetry nor Poetry in Light (limelight not even) some you can find - here at our friend's http://www.thing.net/~grist/l&d/lighthom.htm Light and Dust Poetry point of light, enlightenment, illuminati, sun, stars, the change electric light brought to the human society, McLuhan's massage, the medium of life, Benjamin's aura, ethereal light, light in the abyss, Lucifer the God of Light, Apollo the God of Light, the light of the Vestals, Prometheus and the fire, the dyonysian spirit and the spendor of his fire, ... On Sun, Nov 2, 2008 at 2:20 PM, lsg wrote: > I'm wondering if Bob Grumman has invented a new art: it is not poetry at > all, but something else entirely. Even though it is related to poetry, it > may be so different as to deserve its own category. Like songs and poems > are related but are not categorized together. Dance and acrobatics > (gymnastics) are related but still different enough to own separate > categories of endeavor... > > Again...just a thought...and you all might have already covered this in > depth...as I dip in and out of this list... I might have missed it. > > lsg > > PS That situation of inventing new art forms is much different from the > cases where thugs beat up on older poets to get their doggerel read. When > an artist actually invents a new art, he will probably need to explain it > and compare it to its closest cousins. > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* Bob Grumman > *To:* NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views > *Sent:* Saturday, November 01, 2008 5:49 PM > *Subject:* Re: [New-Poetry] Poetic Justice > > A breath-taking poem, Judy? Too easy for me. All I have to do is > repeat my many posts here and elsewhere about "lighght." > Breath-taking--when I have to emphasize, I first read it. No poem, or > any work of art, remains eternally breath-taking for me. > > Why? Because it was a pioneering minimalist poem, done when no one else > was seriously engaged in making one-word poems--though it's possible (I > don't know) that others had done one or two), and the idea of trying for > maximum intensity in a minimum of text was new and potent. Even more > important, I'm fairly sure it was the first poem to exploit silent > letters metaphorically for its central aesthetic effect. Third, it was > a good minor concrete poem, aside from its being a major infra-verbal > poem (poem dependent on what happens inside words rather than between > words). Fourth, it is a brilliant (and original) expression of light > silently expanding. By itself on a page, it makes those appreciating it > experience the awesome magnitude of mere light, which is probably the > most important thing in existence. > > Something similar happened to me when I caught on to Cummings's falling > leaf poem. I was knocked into what I call "Manywhere-at-Once," which is > being (literally, I believe) in more than one fully-felt > generally-rigorously disconnected compartments of your brain at once. > Lots of other poems have done this to me, most of them very well-known, > but some not (including a few of my own!) I mention the short ones > because it'd take too long to get into the longer ones. > > One last shortie: Basho's haiku about the old pond. > > But I think it may be that there are poems that don't click the way > these do for me that are in other ways as valuable--Frost's "Stopping By > the Woods," for instance. . . . > > --Bob G. > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081102/e3cf1a39/attachment.html From amyhappens at yahoo.com Sun Nov 2 09:50:35 2008 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:16 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetic Justice In-Reply-To: <7db1d01b0811020513v4a23e59fy230991fc884955c9@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <570397.28494.qm@web83306.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> G'? morning, Actually, men talk a little more than women: http://blog.wired.com/wiredscience/2007/11/its-official-me.html Even better, an analysis of those questions: http://www.feministing.com/archives/006132.html But moreover, do men publish more than women?? If you count up the prizes awarded, right on up to the laureates, men absolutely write more than women!? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Book_Award_for_Poetry http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_poetry_awards http://amyking.wordpress.com/2008/03/23/what%e2%80%99s-love-got-to-do-with-it/ Be well, Amy p.s.? But why do women read more - http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=14175229 -- ?? _______ Recent work http://www.writing.upenn.edu/pennsound/x/King.html Amy's Alias http://amyking.org/ --- On Sun, 11/2/08, Judy Prince wrote: From: Judy Prince Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Poetic Justice To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &, Views" Date: Sunday, November 2, 2008, 8:13 AM ? I'd rather not repeat myself like I'm now doing simply bcuz females love to talk more than males like to talk] -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081102/ccdb9d9f/attachment.html From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Sun Nov 2 10:01:22 2008 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:16 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Any (? for Anny) In-Reply-To: <2946CC2E2BC24E028B63894E73055AF8@LindaSue> References: <4b65c2d70811020410o6a6eb33cx8b7c6f15b7757f86@mail.gmail.com> <2946CC2E2BC24E028B63894E73055AF8@LindaSue> Message-ID: <4b65c2d70811020701l6a1579fdme75be4830980d1e0@mail.gmail.com> No, really! Any - indeed, and I was not kidding with the related comment either... On Sun, Nov 2, 2008 at 3:04 PM, lsg wrote: > Anny, > > Is your name really pronounced "Any" or were you just joshin? > > lsg (pronounced "el es jee") > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081102/bd9d6001/attachment.html From jbalizsprince at googlemail.com Sun Nov 2 10:24:11 2008 From: jbalizsprince at googlemail.com (Judy Prince) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:17 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetic Justice In-Reply-To: References: <676762.85739.qm@web54108.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <490A6630.8010103@nut-n-but.net> <490AE653.6040608@nut-n-but.net> <7db1d01b0811011024m29f07113paba60532ca991fab@mail.gmail.com> <490CB527.1090307@nut-n-but.net> <7db1d01b0811011324j6011843cm4e8faf4a66c780b2@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7db1d01b0811020724g6e069c05n1a458f9981963a43@mail.gmail.com> Me trying to beat back awe and envy for your experiences, Robert! Please [don't ask me how] tell me what it was like to be standing there looking at the Real Thing. Judy 2008/11/2 robert e. watling jr. > On Sat, 01 Nov 2008 13:24:54 -0700, Judy Prince < > jbalizsprince@googlemail.com> wrote: > > And I'm fascinated with the bold black calligraphic paintings of Franz >> Kline, his reaction to Japanese brush writing-painting, which is a reaction >> to Chinese brush writing-painting. Kline's mother said about him and the >> black paint [I'll have to paraphrase]: "Just like Franz, always taking the >> easy way." One can only imagine what Rothko's mother would've said. >> > > I recently went to the Art Museum in Portland, Oregon, my new home town. In > one gallery I was continually drawn to a hulking black and white thing. I > saw it everytime I turned a corner. I finally came to it in it's own time > and it was Kline's Rue. I almost fell into it. Eventually, as I walked away > from it, I found on a wall opposite a photograph by Annie Livovitz of Steve > Martin in a white suit smeared with black. I gradually realized he was > standing in front of that same painting. I looked at the photo, then over my > shoulder at the painting and began to feel that I had been drawn into the > continuum of the two. Later I found, through the wonder of the internet, > that Martin had purchased the painting. Probably no one cares about any of > this but your post reminded me of the experience and I am glad to be > remembering it. > > Robert E. Watling > > -- > "Cogito ergo...how does that go again?"...rewjr. > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081102/c6beaf93/attachment.html From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Sun Nov 2 10:39:48 2008 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:17 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Boss's Yellowrocket In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4b65c2d70811020739h9ddb789l8522b7a18d4cf22a@mail.gmail.com> The policy I can see behind this choice is merely based on a strategic investment plan: - young and promising (college teacher) - capillary (like with Palin, get no one distant from the center and make it someone at the center, they will be forever faithful to you___) - capillary - all his students, family, all the people in St. Olaf will have to buy a copy, Besides that the following made me smile: He sent poems to Poetry magazine for 15 years before it accepted one. Which backs up my analysis, Young [full of strength and obstinacy, and will to succeed] and [hopefully] promising. Norton has just started to create the Monster Poet. See the pics, the two show a white folder with Norton well visible. An incredible advertising hit. On Sun, Nov 2, 2008 at 12:06 AM, wrote: > Once again proving that I just don't get it. All the poets in America > and this is what Norton wants? > > > > ------------------------------ > Plan your next getaway with AOL Travel. Check out Today's Hot 5 Travel > Deals! > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081102/a85d7785/attachment.html From grahamd at ripon.edu Sun Nov 2 10:41:22 2008 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:17 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Logan on the Lowell/Bishop letters Message-ID: <98220262-55DA-4546-8C32-36E35395AFC6@ripon.edu> When the poets are safely dead and enshrined, William Logan can compose quite a measured, insightful review. He's also capable of letting up on the snarky look-at-me rhetorical flourishes, apparently. It probably helps that one does not expect as much from letters as from poems, I suppose. Anyway, worth a look: http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/02/books/review/Logan-t.html? pagewanted=1&_r=1&ref=review ======================================== David Graham grahamd@ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.mac.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081102/5ee2b75e/attachment.html From jbalizsprince at googlemail.com Sun Nov 2 10:43:19 2008 From: jbalizsprince at googlemail.com (Judy Prince) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:17 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetic Justice In-Reply-To: <570397.28494.qm@web83306.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: <7db1d01b0811020513v4a23e59fy230991fc884955c9@mail.gmail.com> <570397.28494.qm@web83306.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <7db1d01b0811020743n31a3ecb2ne2d661fb3c6fd7ef@mail.gmail.com> Hi, Amy, Since the first two urls give opposing conclusions, I'll assume my own opinion to be correct: females talk more than males, anytime anywhere to anyone, pretty much. Good news on the 20% only males reading fiction---a market-corner for female authors. What about non-fiction and magazines? What about poetry? And are films still an overwhelming preference by young males? Best, Judy 2008/11/2 amy king > G' morning, > > Actually, men talk a little more than women: > http://blog.wired.com/wiredscience/2007/11/its-official-me.html > > Even better, an analysis of those questions: > http://www.feministing.com/archives/006132.html > > But moreover, do men publish more than women? If you count up the prizes > awarded, right on up to the laureates, men absolutely write more than > women! > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Book_Award_for_Poetry > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_poetry_awards > > http://amyking.wordpress.com/2008/03/23/what%e2%80%99s-love-got-to-do-with-it/ > > > Be well, > Amy > > p.s. But why do women read more - > http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=14175229 -- ?? > > > > _______ > > > Recent work > http://www.writing.upenn.edu/pennsound/x/King.html > > Amy's Alias > http://amyking.org/ > > --- On *Sun, 11/2/08, Judy Prince * wrote: > > From: Judy Prince > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Poetic Justice > To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &, Views" < > new-poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu> > Date: Sunday, November 2, 2008, 8:13 AM > > I'd rather not repeat myself like I'm now doing simply bcuz females love > to talk more than males like to talk] > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081102/3df441c5/attachment.html From jbalizsprince at googlemail.com Sun Nov 2 10:58:13 2008 From: jbalizsprince at googlemail.com (Judy Prince) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:17 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetic Justice In-Reply-To: References: <676762.85739.qm@web54108.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <490A6630.8010103@nut-n-but.net> <490AE653.6040608@nut-n-but.net> <7db1d01b0811011024m29f07113paba60532ca991fab@mail.gmail.com> <490CB527.1090307@nut-n-but.net> <7db1d01b0811011324j6011843cm4e8faf4a66c780b2@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7db1d01b0811020758x12215880gcebb83e75c619187@mail.gmail.com> Robert, I just noticed your sign-off quote----wonderful! Judy 2008/11/2 robert e. watling jr. > > > Robert E. Watling > > -- > "Cogito ergo...how does that go again?"...rewjr. > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081102/80c2494c/attachment.html From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sun Nov 2 12:59:43 2008 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:17 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetics (was Poetic Justice) In-Reply-To: <670BB2AAB1F943ECA6690713712939EF@LindaSue> References: <670BB2AAB1F943ECA6690713712939EF@LindaSue> Message-ID: <490DEA8F.303@nut-n-but.net> lsg wrote: > I'm wondering if Bob Grumman has invented a new art: it is not poetry > at all, but something else entirely. Even though it is related to > poetry, it may be so different as to deserve its own category. Like > songs and poems are related but are not categorized together. Dance > and acrobatics (gymnastics) are related but still different enough to > own separate categories of endeavor... Beware, Linda Sue, I'm a taxonomaniac and neologizer. You've just gotten me to coin "physibition" for the art of expressing oneself through physical actions: the dance, acrobatics, gymnastics, diving, ice skating, water ballet, baton twirling, etc. As for a separate category for poems like "lighght," I think you're too late: they've long been called poems. Also, it makes more sense to consider them a sub-category of poetry rather than a whole new category since they are entirely verbal. Visual poems which include purely graphic material are less easy to call poetry but they're as much literature as the drama is. They, too have long been called poetry by a lot of people, although many have claimed they are not, almost always dismissively. I prefer to limit the main categories, though, so class them "poems." > > Again...just a thought...and you all might have already covered this > in depth...as I dip in and out of this list... I might have missed it. > > lsg > > PS That situation of inventing new art forms is much different from > the cases where thugs beat up on older poets to get their doggerel > read. When an artist actually invents a new art, he will probably > need to explain it and compare it to its closest cousins. > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* Bob Grumman > *To:* NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views > > *Sent:* Saturday, November 01, 2008 5:49 PM > *Subject:* Re: [New-Poetry] Poetic Justice > > A breath-taking poem, Judy? Too easy for me. All I have to do is > repeat my many posts here and elsewhere about "lighght." > Breath-taking--when I have to emphasize, I first read it. No > poem, or > any work of art, remains eternally breath-taking for me. > > Why? Because it was a pioneering minimalist poem, done when no > one else > was seriously engaged in making one-word poems--though it's > possible (I > don't know) that others had done one or two), and the idea of > trying for > maximum intensity in a minimum of text was new and potent. Even more > important, I'm fairly sure it was the first poem to exploit silent > letters metaphorically for its central aesthetic effect. Third, > it was > a good minor concrete poem, aside from its being a major infra-verbal > poem (poem dependent on what happens inside words rather than between > words). Fourth, it is a brilliant (and original) expression of light > silently expanding. By itself on a page, it makes those > appreciating it > experience the awesome magnitude of mere light, which is probably the > most important thing in existence. > > Something similar happened to me when I caught on to Cummings's > falling > leaf poem. I was knocked into what I call "Manywhere-at-Once," > which is > being (literally, I believe) in more than one fully-felt > generally-rigorously disconnected compartments of your brain at > once. > Lots of other poems have done this to me, most of them very > well-known, > but some not (including a few of my own!) I mention the short ones > because it'd take too long to get into the longer ones. > > One last shortie: Basho's haiku about the old pond. > > But I think it may be that there are poems that don't click the way > these do for me that are in other ways as valuable--Frost's > "Stopping By > the Woods," for instance. . . . > > --Bob G. > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081102/556756c8/attachment.html From jbalizsprince at googlemail.com Sun Nov 2 13:19:26 2008 From: jbalizsprince at googlemail.com (Judy Prince) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:17 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetics (was Poetic Justice) In-Reply-To: <490DEA8F.303@nut-n-but.net> References: <670BB2AAB1F943ECA6690713712939EF@LindaSue> <490DEA8F.303@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <7db1d01b0811021019m618e67dem98ccb2c48b88be6f@mail.gmail.com> "Lightght" sounds better to me for some reason, Bob. Judy 2008/11/2 Bob Grumman > lsg wrote: > > I'm wondering if Bob Grumman has invented a new art: it is not poetry at > all, but something else entirely. Even though it is related to poetry, it > may be so different as to deserve its own category. Like songs and poems > are related but are not categorized together. Dance and acrobatics > (gymnastics) are related but still different enough to own separate > categories of endeavor... > > Beware, Linda Sue, I'm a taxonomaniac and neologizer. You've just gotten > me to coin "physibition" for the art of expressing oneself through physical > actions: the dance, acrobatics, gymnastics, diving, ice skating, water > ballet, baton twirling, etc. As for a separate category for poems like > "lighght," I think you're too late: they've long been called poems. Also, > it makes more sense to consider them a sub-category of poetry rather than a > whole new category since they are entirely verbal. Visual poems which > include purely graphic material are less easy to call poetry but they're as > much literature as the drama is. They, too have long been called poetry by > a lot of people, although many have claimed they are not, almost always > dismissively. I prefer to limit the main categories, though, so class them > "poems." > > > > Again...just a thought...and you all might have already covered this in > depth...as I dip in and out of this list... I might have missed it. > > lsg > > PS That situation of inventing new art forms is much different from the > cases where thugs beat up on older poets to get their doggerel read. When > an artist actually invents a new art, he will probably need to explain it > and compare it to its closest cousins. > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* Bob Grumman > *To:* NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views > *Sent:* Saturday, November 01, 2008 5:49 PM > *Subject:* Re: [New-Poetry] Poetic Justice > > A breath-taking poem, Judy? Too easy for me. All I have to do is > repeat my many posts here and elsewhere about "lighght." > Breath-taking--when I have to emphasize, I first read it. No poem, or > any work of art, remains eternally breath-taking for me. > > Why? Because it was a pioneering minimalist poem, done when no one else > was seriously engaged in making one-word poems--though it's possible (I > don't know) that others had done one or two), and the idea of trying for > maximum intensity in a minimum of text was new and potent. Even more > important, I'm fairly sure it was the first poem to exploit silent > letters metaphorically for its central aesthetic effect. Third, it was > a good minor concrete poem, aside from its being a major infra-verbal > poem (poem dependent on what happens inside words rather than between > words). Fourth, it is a brilliant (and original) expression of light > silently expanding. By itself on a page, it makes those appreciating it > experience the awesome magnitude of mere light, which is probably the > most important thing in existence. > > Something similar happened to me when I caught on to Cummings's falling > leaf poem. I was knocked into what I call "Manywhere-at-Once," which is > being (literally, I believe) in more than one fully-felt > generally-rigorously disconnected compartments of your brain at once. > Lots of other poems have done this to me, most of them very well-known, > but some not (including a few of my own!) I mention the short ones > because it'd take too long to get into the longer ones. > > One last shortie: Basho's haiku about the old pond. > > But I think it may be that there are poems that don't click the way > these do for me that are in other ways as valuable--Frost's "Stopping By > the Woods," for instance. . . . > > --Bob G. > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > ------------------------------ > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing listNew-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.eduhttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081102/7423ecab/attachment.html From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sun Nov 2 14:03:42 2008 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:17 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetics (was Poetic Justice) In-Reply-To: <7db1d01b0811021019m618e67dem98ccb2c48b88be6f@mail.gmail.com> References: <670BB2AAB1F943ECA6690713712939EF@LindaSue><490DEA8F.303@nut-n-but.net> <7db1d01b0811021019m618e67dem98ccb2c48b88be6f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <490DF98E.9000003@nut-n-but.net> Judy Prince wrote: > "Lightght" sounds better to me for some reason, Bob. > > Judy Interesting. I never thought of spelling it that way but it would still be pronounced the same. So would "lightgh." But the original spelling the only one with the proper flow. Your extra t would cause a disruptive stumble. You have to slide through the unexpected extra gh. --Bob From jbalizsprince at googlemail.com Sun Nov 2 14:14:09 2008 From: jbalizsprince at googlemail.com (Judy Prince) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:17 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetics (was Poetic Justice) In-Reply-To: <490DF98E.9000003@nut-n-but.net> References: <670BB2AAB1F943ECA6690713712939EF@LindaSue> <490DEA8F.303@nut-n-but.net> <7db1d01b0811021019m618e67dem98ccb2c48b88be6f@mail.gmail.com> <490DF98E.9000003@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <7db1d01b0811021114l69680e8fueff2eb671d6f98bb@mail.gmail.com> OK, I'm thinking of it with a beat and sound like this: LIE-t-T [BUM-ba-BUM] I like the timpanic sound of the ending's "t-T", which manages to linger like after-cymbals. Judy 2008/11/2 Bob Grumman > Judy Prince wrote: > >> "Lightght" sounds better to me for some reason, Bob. >> >> Judy >> > Interesting. I never thought of spelling it that way but it would still be > pronounced the same. So would "lightgh." But the original spelling the > only one with the proper flow. Your extra t would cause a disruptive > stumble. You have to slide through the unexpected extra gh. > > --Bob > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081102/3efb5d9e/attachment.html From jforjames at aol.com Sun Nov 2 17:14:42 2008 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames@aol.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:17 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] =?utf-8?q?Essays_on_Women=E2=80=99s_Experimental_Po?= =?utf-8?q?etries_in_Canada?= Message-ID: <8CB0B4F8A05A7B8-598-733@webmail-dd10.sysops.aol.com> http://www.ndorward.com/poetry/books/antiphonies.htm Antiphonies Essays on Women?s Experimental Poetries in Canada Antiphonies is a primer on some of the most exciting work in contemporary Canadian poetry. These essays deal with the period from the 1980s to the present, and discuss a wide range of work, from books already acclaimed as modern classics -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081102/f84ce12b/attachment.html From JforJames at aol.com Sun Nov 2 17:33:35 2008 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames@aol.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:17 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetics (was Poetic Justice) Message-ID: Would this be true of 'lighght' verse?... -- _http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/26/books/review/Hajdu-t.html?partner=rssnyt&em c=rss_ (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/26/books/review/Hajdu-t.html?partner=rssnyt&emc=rss) He recognized fairly early on that ?minimalism as a governing aesthetic could and would rapidly exhaust itself,? as he writes here. ?Like Cubism in painting, it was a radically new idea, but its reductive worldview would soon leave its practitioners caught in an expressive cul-de-sac.? David Hajdu quoting John Adams (American Composer), New York Times Book Review, Oct. 26, 2008, review of Halleluiah Junction by John Adams, (FSG, 2008) **************Plan your next getaway with AOL Travel. Check out Today's Hot 5 Travel Deals! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1212416248x1200771803/aol?redir=http://travel.aol.com/discount-travel?ncid=emlcntustrav00000001) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081102/05a169da/attachment.html From rewatlingjr at comcast.net Sun Nov 2 22:16:52 2008 From: rewatlingjr at comcast.net (robert e. watling jr.) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:18 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetic Justice In-Reply-To: <7db1d01b0811020724g6e069c05n1a458f9981963a43@mail.gmail.com> References: <676762.85739.qm@web54108.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <490A6630.8010103@nut-n-but.net> <490AE653.6040608@nut-n-but.net> <7db1d01b0811011024m29f07113paba60532ca991fab@mail.gmail.com> <490CB527.1090307@nut-n-but.net> <7db1d01b0811011324j6011843cm4e8faf4a66c780b2@mail.gmail.com> <7db1d01b0811020724g6e069c05n1a458f9981963a43@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 02 Nov 2008 07:24:11 -0800, Judy Prince wrote: > Me trying to beat back awe and envy for your experiences, Robert! > Please [don't ask me how] tell me what it was like to be standing there > looking at the Real Thing. > > Judy Thanks Judy for the kind response to my first post to this list. The Kline kind of leered at me from the end of the gallery. I couldn't avoid it, not that I tried but was looking at each thing as I came to it and there it hung at the end of the room. I'd turn a corner looking at different things, moving in to look at brush strokes and details and moving back to get the whole and kept seeing this big black thing in the corner of my eye until I just had to stop and absorb it. I'm not an artist or educated much in art. Some things just get into my head, like Monet's Water Lilies, the version in the Cleveland Museum of Art as opposed to the one in Portland that doesn't touch me at all. The Kline just did it for me and I can still see it in feel it in my mind. Then to turn around and see the Lebovitz photo, I just burst out laughing. And with all these words I still haven't really said what happened to me that day. But I will say that in a day that for me was not inspiring, the juxtoposition of those two works was brilliant. Now I can't remember either without thinking of the other. Thanks again...rob. -- "Cogito ergo...how does that go again?"...rewjr. From rewatlingjr at comcast.net Sun Nov 2 22:29:20 2008 From: rewatlingjr at comcast.net (robert e. watling jr.) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:18 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetic Justice In-Reply-To: <7db1d01b0811020758x12215880gcebb83e75c619187@mail.gmail.com> References: <676762.85739.qm@web54108.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <490A6630.8010103@nut-n-but.net> <490AE653.6040608@nut-n-but.net> <7db1d01b0811011024m29f07113paba60532ca991fab@mail.gmail.com> <490CB527.1090307@nut-n-but.net> <7db1d01b0811011324j6011843cm4e8faf4a66c780b2@mail.gmail.com> <7db1d01b0811020758x12215880gcebb83e75c619187@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 02 Nov 2008 07:58:13 -0800, Judy Prince wrote: > Robert, I just noticed your sign-off quote----wonderful! > > Judy Thanks again Judy, If anyone is interested here is a link to the Kline painting: http://www.christies.com/LotFinder/lot_details.aspx?intObjectID=4189263 And here is a link to the Annie Leibovitz photo: http://www.postershop.com/Leibovitz-Annie/Leibovitz-Annie-Steve-Martin-7200025.html and I apologize for misspelling her name. rob. -- "Cogito ergo...how does that go again?"...rewjr. From visualsamit at gmail.com Mon Nov 3 02:16:19 2008 From: visualsamit at gmail.com (Samit Roy) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:18 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Otoliths 11 Message-ID: <9d17777b0811022316o20d5ecefn8c6b31c9547055d2@mail.gmail.com> Hi everyone, Otoliths Issue Eleven, Southern Spring 2008 is out and I am glad that Mark has included my work in this issue. Please take a look at my work at following location: http://the-otolith.blogspot.com/2008/10/samit-roy-jeebanjuddha-samit-roy-is.html It is really exciting to get my works published with Vispo artists like David-Baptiste Chirot, Alexander Jorgensen, John M Bennet, Sheila E. Murphy and many other well-known and respected poets, visual artists and vispo artists. Cheers! Samit -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081103/d6c8f092/attachment.html From rog3r.day at gmail.com Mon Nov 3 02:34:10 2008 From: rog3r.day at gmail.com (Roger Day) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:18 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetic Justice In-Reply-To: <4908F99F.9050806@nut-n-but.net> References: <380-220081022816179729@M2W020.mail2web.com> <4908A181.7070708@opus40.org> <4908B516.7070607@nut-n-but.net> <4908F99F.9050806@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: "absorbed data" yeah, right. Roger On Thu, Oct 30, 2008 at 12:02 AM, Bob Grumman wrote: > Roger Day wrote: >> >> "you go to war with the army you have" >> >> and those are the only figures I could find. I did say I couldn't >> quite trust those figures wrt poets. Still, if there are better ones >> out there ... >> >> When ever I get a "feeling" I always try to correlate these feelings >> with something that looks like a fact and adjust my sense of things >> accordingly. YMMV. >> > > Well, usually my feelings are based on absorbed data. The main thing is to > resist claiming one's opinion is a fact, which I have done here. I'd add > that in this case it's pretty certain there are no relevant figures around, > although the ones you produced were interesting--at the same level as my > feelings. This is a kind of dopey but fun topic to bat around, I think, but > nothing more serious. > Another observation: that there are a huge number of men in the States who > bewail how much professional athletes are paid--yet spend ten percent or > more of their lives watching them on television and reading about them in > newspapers and magazines. > > --Bob G. > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- My Stuff: http://www.badstep.net/ "I began to warm and chill to objects and their fields" Nick Cave & The Bad Seeds From Sigauke at crc.losrios.edu Mon Nov 3 02:49:21 2008 From: Sigauke at crc.losrios.edu (Sigauke, Emmanuel) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:18 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetic Justice In-Reply-To: References: <380-220081022816179729@M2W020.mail2web.com> <4908A181.7070708@opus40.org> <4908B516.7070607@nut-n-but.net> <4908F99F.9050806@nut-n-but.net>, Message-ID: <8AB6AE105E0CE34EA7047DA0D6F0A9711110C944D6@lrccd-exch08.LRCCD.ad.losrios.edu> The Nov/December issue of Munyori Poetry Journal is out. Access it here: www.munyori.com and enjoy! ________________________________________ From: new-poetry-bounces@wiz.cath.vt.edu [new-poetry-bounces@wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Roger Day [rog3r.day@gmail.com] Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2008 11:34 PM To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &, Views Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Poetic Justice "absorbed data" yeah, right. Roger On Thu, Oct 30, 2008 at 12:02 AM, Bob Grumman wrote: > Roger Day wrote: >> >> "you go to war with the army you have" >> >> and those are the only figures I could find. I did say I couldn't >> quite trust those figures wrt poets. Still, if there are better ones >> out there ... >> >> When ever I get a "feeling" I always try to correlate these feelings >> with something that looks like a fact and adjust my sense of things >> accordingly. YMMV. >> > > Well, usually my feelings are based on absorbed data. The main thing is to > resist claiming one's opinion is a fact, which I have done here. I'd add > that in this case it's pretty certain there are no relevant figures around, > although the ones you produced were interesting--at the same level as my > feelings. This is a kind of dopey but fun topic to bat around, I think, but > nothing more serious. > Another observation: that there are a huge number of men in the States who > bewail how much professional athletes are paid--yet spend ten percent or > more of their lives watching them on television and reading about them in > newspapers and magazines. > > --Bob G. > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- My Stuff: http://www.badstep.net/ "I began to warm and chill to objects and their fields" Nick Cave & The Bad Seeds _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Mon Nov 3 02:57:58 2008 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:18 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] The WOM-PO Festival Message-ID: <4b65c2d70811022357oad311a8oba84922ac1787edc@mail.gmail.com> There is also a mention to James Finnegan and to our very New Poetry List (logically at the very very end..., you will have to show you've read it all to find it): http://www.wompherence.proboards82.com/index.cgi?board=ezjs&action=display&thread=987 [Bob Grumman did not find my question directed to him at the very bottom of a message... *isn't it trick or treat time?*] -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081103/cfa77c28/attachment.html From Opus40-01 at opus40.org Mon Nov 3 03:35:54 2008 From: Opus40-01 at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:18 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetic Justice In-Reply-To: <8AB6AE105E0CE34EA7047DA0D6F0A9711110C944D6@lrccd-exch08.LRCCD.ad.losrios.edu> References: <380-220081022816179729@M2W020.mail2web.com> <4908A181.7070708@opus40.org> <4908B516.7070607@nut-n-but.net> <4908F99F.9050806@nut-n-but.net>, <8AB6AE105E0CE34EA7047DA0D6F0A9711110C944D6@lrccd-exch08.LRCCD.ad.losrios.edu> Message-ID: <490EB7EA.7080608@opus40.org> As always, the international character of Munyori continues to impress. Sigauke, Emmanuel wrote: > The Nov/December issue of Munyori Poetry Journal is out. Access it here: www.munyori.com and enjoy! > > > > ________________________________________ > From: new-poetry-bounces@wiz.cath.vt.edu [new-poetry-bounces@wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Roger Day [rog3r.day@gmail.com] > Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2008 11:34 PM > To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &, Views > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Poetic Justice > > "absorbed data" yeah, right. > > Roger > > On Thu, Oct 30, 2008 at 12:02 AM, Bob Grumman wrote: > >> Roger Day wrote: >> >>> "you go to war with the army you have" >>> >>> and those are the only figures I could find. I did say I couldn't >>> quite trust those figures wrt poets. Still, if there are better ones >>> out there ... >>> >>> When ever I get a "feeling" I always try to correlate these feelings >>> with something that looks like a fact and adjust my sense of things >>> accordingly. YMMV. >>> >>> >> Well, usually my feelings are based on absorbed data. The main thing is to >> resist claiming one's opinion is a fact, which I have done here. I'd add >> that in this case it's pretty certain there are no relevant figures around, >> although the ones you produced were interesting--at the same level as my >> feelings. This is a kind of dopey but fun topic to bat around, I think, but >> nothing more serious. >> Another observation: that there are a huge number of men in the States who >> bewail how much professional athletes are paid--yet spend ten percent or >> more of their lives watching them on television and reading about them in >> newspapers and magazines. >> >> --Bob G. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > > > > -- > My Stuff: http://www.badstep.net/ > "I began to warm and chill > to objects and their fields" > Nick Cave & The Bad Seeds > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ Don't forget to order your copy of FILM NOIR! http://stores.lulu.com/store.php?fAcctID=2712239 From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Mon Nov 3 06:23:43 2008 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:18 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetics (was Poetic Justice) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <490EDF3F.2050208@nut-n-but.net> JforJames@aol.com wrote: > > Would this be true of 'lighght' verse?... > I would think anything as "a governing aesthetic" meaning aesthetic exclusively followed, would "rapidly exhaust itself." But "lighght" verse has been with us for forty years or more, and is still being practiced. I myself believe one-word poems have about had it, but that minimalism will always be as valuable for poets as anything else, but only as part of poetry in general. That is, used in larger works. --Bob G. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081103/d6192dcf/attachment.html From rog3r.day at gmail.com Mon Nov 3 06:43:38 2008 From: rog3r.day at gmail.com (Roger Day) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:18 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Never Mind The Pollocks Message-ID: The admiration for Pollock expressed in this forum is shared by me. However, I have .. questions. Art practice is about control: control of media, the reader/viewer, experience ... yet Pollock pushes those boundaries. Oh, he has a modicum control in that each painting is a selection of colours and he places them - approximately and this is the rub - where he wants but if Art practice is continuum of control to un-control, then his methods swing to the latter unlike, say, Rothko whose methods veer towards absolute control. Who are Pollocks heirs? Not many, I think. Damien Hirst for one, possibly. Any others? My tutor hated Pollock to the extent that Pollock disappeared off his teaching map. How does this translate into poetry? If poetic practice is about control, whose poetical methods resemble Pollocks? Whose poetry is the parallel of Pollocks paintings? Roger -- My Stuff: http://www.badstep.net/ "I began to warm and chill to objects and their fields" Nick Cave & The Bad Seeds From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Mon Nov 3 07:11:01 2008 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:18 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Never Mind The Pollocks In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4b65c2d70811030411n46e01a44o10b6d3ef0569a680@mail.gmail.com> Hi Roger, too tempting, I wish to say just one thing. Pollock was not out of control. I was lucky enough to watch a video shot while he was working. His is a dance, a projection of sorts, a prayer, complete involvement, a magician performing, yes, Pollock is among my favorite painters, high up there on the never-ending ladder. And about Kline, with reference to our previous contributor, I finally got to what he meant by *being haunted* by those powerful black strokes. I had several pages open, and when I returned to the one with Kline's painting I felt the 'black grip' sucking you out from the left. On Mon, Nov 3, 2008 at 12:43 PM, Roger Day wrote: > The admiration for Pollock expressed in this forum is shared by me. > However, I have .. questions. Art practice is about control: control > of media, the reader/viewer, experience ... yet Pollock pushes those > boundaries. Oh, he has a modicum control in that each painting is a > selection of colours and he places them - approximately and this is > the rub - where he wants but if Art practice is continuum of control > to un-control, then his methods swing to the latter unlike, say, > Rothko whose methods veer towards absolute control. Who are Pollocks > heirs? Not many, I think. Damien Hirst for one, possibly. Any others? > > My tutor hated Pollock to the extent that Pollock disappeared off his > teaching map. > > How does this translate into poetry? If poetic practice is about > control, whose poetical methods resemble Pollocks? Whose poetry is the > parallel of Pollocks paintings? > > Roger > -- > My Stuff: http://www.badstep.net/ > "I began to warm and chill > to objects and their fields" > Nick Cave & The Bad Seeds > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081103/114e3a26/attachment.html From rog3r.day at gmail.com Mon Nov 3 07:52:11 2008 From: rog3r.day at gmail.com (Roger Day) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:18 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Never Mind The Pollocks In-Reply-To: <4b65c2d70811030411n46e01a44o10b6d3ef0569a680@mail.gmail.com> References: <4b65c2d70811030411n46e01a44o10b6d3ef0569a680@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: sure - I dont mean "out of control", rather, compare Pollock with say, anyone with a brush. It's about how much control does one have over the process ... (un)control can never be absolute. How much choice does one surrender to the process? And how? From machine-generated poems to Coleridge's Kubla Khan? Roger On 11/3/08, Anny Ballardini wrote: > Hi Roger, too tempting, I wish to say just one thing. > Pollock was not out of control. I was lucky enough to watch a video shot > while he was working. His is a dance, a projection of sorts, a prayer, > complete involvement, a magician performing, > > yes, Pollock is among my favorite painters, high up there on the > never-ending ladder. > > And about Kline, with reference to our previous contributor, I finally got > to what he meant by being haunted by those powerful black strokes. I had > several pages open, and when I returned to the one with Kline's painting I > felt the 'black grip' sucking you out from the left. > > > > > On Mon, Nov 3, 2008 at 12:43 PM, Roger Day wrote: > > > > The admiration for Pollock expressed in this forum is shared by me. > > However, I have .. questions. Art practice is about control: control > > of media, the reader/viewer, experience ... yet Pollock pushes those > > boundaries. Oh, he has a modicum control in that each painting is a > > selection of colours and he places them - approximately and this is > > the rub - where he wants but if Art practice is continuum of control > > to un-control, then his methods swing to the latter unlike, say, > > Rothko whose methods veer towards absolute control. Who are Pollocks > > heirs? Not many, I think. Damien Hirst for one, possibly. Any others? > > > > My tutor hated Pollock to the extent that Pollock disappeared off his > > teaching map. > > > > How does this translate into poetry? If poetic practice is about > > control, whose poetical methods resemble Pollocks? Whose poetry is the > > parallel of Pollocks paintings? > > > > Roger > > -- > > My Stuff: http://www.badstep.net/ > > "I began to warm and chill > > to objects and their fields" > > Nick Cave & The Bad Seeds > > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > > -- > Anny Ballardini > http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ > http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome > http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html > I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing > star! > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- My Stuff: http://www.badstep.net/ "I began to warm and chill to objects and their fields" Nick Cave & The Bad Seeds From JforJames at aol.com Mon Nov 3 09:13:12 2008 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames@aol.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:18 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Never Mind The Pollocks Message-ID: In a message dated 11/3/2008 6:44:03 AM Eastern Standard Time, rog3r.day@gmail.com writes: Who are Pollocks heirs? Not many, I think. Damien Hirst for one, possibly. Any others? - Roger, Not so sure about that. Pollock first and foremost was a painter. He may have pushed painting into a new aesthetic range, but he was still tied to the basic concept of creating an effect with paint (and some other odd things like cigarette butts that happened to drop into the medium) on a planar space. Hirst is more a conceptualist; an artist one could say whose aesthetic is about 'messing with' our aesthetic notions and sensibilities. Hirst is aggressively altering the realm of aethestics. Finnegan **************Plan your next getaway with AOL Travel. Check out Today's Hot 5 Travel Deals! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1212416248x1200771803/aol?redir=http://travel.aol.com/discount-travel?ncid=emlcntustrav00000001) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081103/bf20537c/attachment.html From halvard at earthlink.net Mon Nov 3 10:13:08 2008 From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:18 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetics (was Poetic Justice) In-Reply-To: <490EDF3F.2050208@nut-n-but.net> References: <490EDF3F.2050208@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: The future of one-word poems looks bright to me, compared, say, to the future of poems consisting of exactly 367 words. There's not much of a past there either. Hal McCain / Palin -- Just say thanks but no thanks. They're a bridge to nowhere. Halvard Johnson ================ halvard@earthlink.net halvard@gmail.com http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html On Nov 3, 2008, at 5:23 AM, Bob Grumman wrote: > I would think anything as "a governing aesthetic" meaning aesthetic > exclusively followed, would "rapidly exhaust itself." But "lighght" > verse has been with us for forty years or more, and is still being > practiced. I myself believe one-word poems have about had it, but > that minimalism will always be as valuable for poets as anything > else, but only as part of poetry in general. That is, used in > larger works. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081103/285754a6/attachment.html From jbalizsprince at googlemail.com Mon Nov 3 10:29:13 2008 From: jbalizsprince at googlemail.com (Judy Prince) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:18 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Never Mind The Pollocks In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7db1d01b0811030729m33706a3k5110eb0dcc6e9c1d@mail.gmail.com> You're asking all the delicious questions, R'Owl, and you've the talent, background, and perseverance to get a spread of answers. How about xpanding your field of artists unlimitedly, both the painters and the poets? On NP, am loving the chat about Franz Kline, for example, looking at the sublim[e]inal samenesses in old Chinese calligraphy, FK's works, and my recent attempts at illustrating using fat black marker pens [as a quick way to approximate some of the look of woodcuts]---and most excitingly to note those techniques' and effects' similarities in the poems of Peter Ciccariello and my latest ones. What say you about your works, fine art and poetic, and their possible relationships with others'? Best, joodles 2008/11/3 Roger Day > The admiration for Pollock expressed in this forum is shared by me. > However, I have .. questions. Art practice is about control: control > of media, the reader/viewer, experience ... yet Pollock pushes those > boundaries. Oh, he has a modicum control in that each painting is a > selection of colours and he places them - approximately and this is > the rub - where he wants but if Art practice is continuum of control > to un-control, then his methods swing to the latter unlike, say, > Rothko whose methods veer towards absolute control. Who are Pollocks > heirs? Not many, I think. Damien Hirst for one, possibly. Any others? > > My tutor hated Pollock to the extent that Pollock disappeared off his > teaching map. > > How does this translate into poetry? If poetic practice is about > control, whose poetical methods resemble Pollocks? Whose poetry is the > parallel of Pollocks paintings? > > Roger > -- > My Stuff: http://www.badstep.net/ > "I began to warm and chill > to objects and their fields" > Nick Cave & The Bad Seeds > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081103/0e12ef12/attachment.html From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Mon Nov 3 10:52:16 2008 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:19 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetics (was Poetic Justice) In-Reply-To: References: <490EDF3F.2050208@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <4b65c2d70811030752j6b090d96lad7dbc312dc97b2e@mail.gmail.com> chucklingAndGiggling On Mon, Nov 3, 2008 at 4:13 PM, Halvard Johnson wrote: > The future of one-word poems looks bright to me,compared, say, to the > future of poems consisting > of exactly 367 words. There's not much of a past > there either. > > Hal > > McCain / Palin -- Just say thanks but no thanks. > They're a bridge to nowhere. > > Halvard Johnson > ================ > halvard@earthlink.net > halvard@gmail.com > http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > http://www.hamiltonstone.org > http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html > > > > On Nov 3, 2008, at 5:23 AM, Bob Grumman wrote: > > I would think anything as "a governing aesthetic" meaning aesthetic > exclusively followed, would "rapidly exhaust itself." But "lighght" verse > has been with us for forty years or more, and is still being practiced. I > myself believe one-word poems have about had it, but that minimalism will > always be as valuable for poets as anything else, but only as part of poetry > in general. That is, used in larger works. > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081103/21d7bb1d/attachment.html From jforjames at aol.com Mon Nov 3 11:58:26 2008 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames@aol.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:19 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Whiting winners Message-ID: <8CB0BEC8615E198-ECC-A80@WEBMAIL-DG02.sim.aol.com> http://www.whitingfoundation.org/whiting_2008.html Rick Hilles, poetry. His first collection, Brother Salvage, was published by the University of Pittsburgh Press. He is an assistant professor in the MFA Program at Vanderbilt University and lives in Nashville, Tennessee. Douglas Kearney, poetry. He is the author of Fear, Some (Red Hen Press, 2006) and the forthcoming collection, The Black Automaton, which will be published by Fence Books in 2009. He has an MFA in writing from the California Institute of the Arts, where he now teaches. Julie Sheehan, poetry. She is the author of two collections of poems, Thaw (Fordham University Press, 2001), and Orient Point (Norton, 2006). She teaches in the graduate Writing and Literature program at Stony Brook Southampton and lives in East Quogue, New York. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081103/77ace0ed/attachment.html From femmeferal at gmail.com Mon Nov 3 12:30:53 2008 From: femmeferal at gmail.com (michelle detorie) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:19 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Skeins & Schisms Message-ID: New Issue of Womb Poetry: Skeins and Schisms http://www.wombpoetry.com/ featuring work by: Dorothea Lasky Helen White Michele Burnett Julie Strand Bonnie Emerick Kristine Ong Muslim Melinda Wilson Tara Betts Susan Slaviero Jessica Smith Amanda Ackerman Megan Kaminski Nicole Cartwright Denison Elisa McCool T.A. Noonan Maureen Alsop Constance Merritt Talia Reed Tara McDaniel Jessica Bozek Juliet Cook Check it out! Thanks, Michelle -- http://www.wombpoetry.com/ http://www.daphnomancy.com/ From rog3r.day at gmail.com Mon Nov 3 12:43:16 2008 From: rog3r.day at gmail.com (Roger Day) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:19 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Never Mind The Pollocks In-Reply-To: <7db1d01b0811030729m33706a3k5110eb0dcc6e9c1d@mail.gmail.com> References: <7db1d01b0811030729m33706a3k5110eb0dcc6e9c1d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: I was wondering about the relationship of your work with Pollocks? On Mon, Nov 3, 2008 at 3:29 PM, Judy Prince wrote: > You're asking all the delicious questions, R'Owl, and you've the talent, > background, and perseverance to get a spread of answers. How about xpanding > your field of artists unlimitedly, both the painters and the poets? > On NP, am loving the chat about Franz Kline, for example, looking at the > sublim[e]inal samenesses in old Chinese calligraphy, FK's works, and my > recent attempts at illustrating using fat black marker pens [as a quick way > to approximate some of the look of woodcuts]---and most excitingly to note > those techniques' and effects' similarities in the poems of Peter > Ciccariello and my latest ones. > What say you about your works, fine art and poetic, and their possible > relationships with others'? > Best, > joodles > > 2008/11/3 Roger Day >> >> The admiration for Pollock expressed in this forum is shared by me. >> However, I have .. questions. Art practice is about control: control >> of media, the reader/viewer, experience ... yet Pollock pushes those >> boundaries. Oh, he has a modicum control in that each painting is a >> selection of colours and he places them - approximately and this is >> the rub - where he wants but if Art practice is continuum of control >> to un-control, then his methods swing to the latter unlike, say, >> Rothko whose methods veer towards absolute control. Who are Pollocks >> heirs? Not many, I think. Damien Hirst for one, possibly. Any others? >> >> My tutor hated Pollock to the extent that Pollock disappeared off his >> teaching map. >> >> How does this translate into poetry? If poetic practice is about >> control, whose poetical methods resemble Pollocks? Whose poetry is the >> parallel of Pollocks paintings? >> >> Roger >> -- >> My Stuff: http://www.badstep.net/ >> "I began to warm and chill >> to objects and their fields" >> Nick Cave & The Bad Seeds >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- My Stuff: http://www.badstep.net/ "I began to warm and chill to objects and their fields" Nick Cave & The Bad Seeds From jbalizsprince at googlemail.com Mon Nov 3 13:27:54 2008 From: jbalizsprince at googlemail.com (Judy Prince) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:19 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Never Mind The Pollocks In-Reply-To: References: <7db1d01b0811030729m33706a3k5110eb0dcc6e9c1d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7db1d01b0811031027v5d668b8cld7f025638dfbb027@mail.gmail.com> OK, R'Owl. I'm a colour-freak but can't handle it aesthetically responsibly like geniuses such as Pollock. If I had my way, I'd stare at a rainbow or wall washed in prism-colours all day, tiny coloured lites on every tree and bush. So I hafta begin like a baby with b/w. Paul Oxborough [sp?] did the 2 year only black painting thing. Some of his works're nifty [I've only seen the ones in colours]; my faves are woman at the piano, a tiny work; and his self-portrait peeling an orange. Pretty much all styles and periods intrigue me, but recently mainly bcuz of Peter Ciccariello's poems that blow my mind, I'm tryna figure out why, and experimenting with poems and drawings that give me the same 'feel' as his poems do. Main feeling I get is that somehow the top of my head lifts up and stays that way while I'm reading Peter's poems or writing/reading my lately ones. The rest of my head, from eyes down, functions as an indulgent, sleepy but alert, sharp, benign editor. Same things with the latest b/w illustrations, but it's a lot more difficult. The editor-eyes pull the top of my head down quite frequently, alas. Don't know why the diff btn poetry and painting headtop actions. Mite be as simple as my feeling more comfortable with words than with image-jugglings. Helps me to get blank paper and marker, think about how I'm gonna illustrate a thing; then, having thought of the ways, to just say "oh fuck" and go with something altogether different and weird. It's possible to do this more easily when the viewers are my 5 yr old grandtwins bcuz they make fewer assumptions about what's 'normal' [or at least they don't seem surprised at what they see]. The whole area of 'mistakes' doesn't really apply, therefore. Lovely, nah? ;-) Your turn now, joodles 2008/11/3 Roger Day > I was wondering about the relationship of your work with Pollocks? > > On Mon, Nov 3, 2008 at 3:29 PM, Judy Prince > wrote: > > You're asking all the delicious questions, R'Owl, and you've the talent, > > background, and perseverance to get a spread of answers. How about > xpanding > > your field of artists unlimitedly, both the painters and the poets? > > On NP, am loving the chat about Franz Kline, for example, looking at the > > sublim[e]inal samenesses in old Chinese calligraphy, FK's works, and my > > recent attempts at illustrating using fat black marker pens [as a quick > way > > to approximate some of the look of woodcuts]---and most excitingly to > note > > those techniques' and effects' similarities in the poems of Peter > > Ciccariello and my latest ones. > > What say you about your works, fine art and poetic, and their possible > > relationships with others'? > > Best, > > joodles > > > > 2008/11/3 Roger Day > >> > >> The admiration for Pollock expressed in this forum is shared by me. > >> However, I have .. questions. Art practice is about control: control > >> of media, the reader/viewer, experience ... yet Pollock pushes those > >> boundaries. Oh, he has a modicum control in that each painting is a > >> selection of colours and he places them - approximately and this is > >> the rub - where he wants but if Art practice is continuum of control > >> to un-control, then his methods swing to the latter unlike, say, > >> Rothko whose methods veer towards absolute control. Who are Pollocks > >> heirs? Not many, I think. Damien Hirst for one, possibly. Any others? > >> > >> My tutor hated Pollock to the extent that Pollock disappeared off his > >> teaching map. > >> > >> How does this translate into poetry? If poetic practice is about > >> control, whose poetical methods resemble Pollocks? Whose poetry is the > >> parallel of Pollocks paintings? > >> > >> Roger > >> -- > >> My Stuff: http://www.badstep.net/ > >> "I began to warm and chill > >> to objects and their fields" > >> Nick Cave & The Bad Seeds > >> _______________________________________________ > >> New-Poetry mailing list > >> New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > > > > -- > My Stuff: http://www.badstep.net/ > "I began to warm and chill > to objects and their fields" > Nick Cave & The Bad Seeds > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081103/ce7dc8cf/attachment.html From jbalizsprince at googlemail.com Mon Nov 3 15:00:33 2008 From: jbalizsprince at googlemail.com (Judy Prince) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:19 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Never Mind The Pollocks In-Reply-To: References: <4b65c2d70811030411n46e01a44o10b6d3ef0569a680@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7db1d01b0811031200k5caa01eax968fb3f8925090c2@mail.gmail.com> R'Owl, you might get some things out of this. George Szirtes taught art and writing, and he's a good teacher from what I've read of his clear, helpful suggestions and opinions [on poetry]. Here's his recent thought- and action-provoking Groan Poetry Workshop 'instruction': http://www.guardian.co.uk/ books/2008/oct/24/poetry- workshop-george-szirtes-small joodles 2008/11/3 Roger Day > sure - I dont mean "out of control", rather, compare Pollock with say, > anyone with a brush. It's about how much control does one have over > the process ... (un)control can never be absolute. > > How much choice does one surrender to the process? And how? From > machine-generated poems to Coleridge's Kubla Khan? > > > Roger > > On 11/3/08, Anny Ballardini wrote: > > Hi Roger, too tempting, I wish to say just one thing. > > Pollock was not out of control. I was lucky enough to watch a video shot > > while he was working. His is a dance, a projection of sorts, a prayer, > > complete involvement, a magician performing, > > > > yes, Pollock is among my favorite painters, high up there on the > > never-ending ladder. > > > > And about Kline, with reference to our previous contributor, I finally > got > > to what he meant by being haunted by those powerful black strokes. I had > > several pages open, and when I returned to the one with Kline's painting > I > > felt the 'black grip' sucking you out from the left. > > > > > > > > > > On Mon, Nov 3, 2008 at 12:43 PM, Roger Day wrote: > > > > > > The admiration for Pollock expressed in this forum is shared by me. > > > However, I have .. questions. Art practice is about control: control > > > of media, the reader/viewer, experience ... yet Pollock pushes those > > > boundaries. Oh, he has a modicum control in that each painting is a > > > selection of colours and he places them - approximately and this is > > > the rub - where he wants but if Art practice is continuum of control > > > to un-control, then his methods swing to the latter unlike, say, > > > Rothko whose methods veer towards absolute control. Who are Pollocks > > > heirs? Not many, I think. Damien Hirst for one, possibly. Any others? > > > > > > My tutor hated Pollock to the extent that Pollock disappeared off his > > > teaching map. > > > > > > How does this translate into poetry? If poetic practice is about > > > control, whose poetical methods resemble Pollocks? Whose poetry is the > > > parallel of Pollocks paintings? > > > > > > Roger > > > -- > > > My Stuff: http://www.badstep.net/ > > > "I began to warm and chill > > > to objects and their fields" > > > Nick Cave & The Bad Seeds > > > _______________________________________________ > > > New-Poetry mailing list > > > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Anny Ballardini > > http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ > > http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome > > http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html > > I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing > > star! > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > > > -- > My Stuff: http://www.badstep.net/ > "I began to warm and chill > to objects and their fields" > Nick Cave & The Bad Seeds > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081103/1fa30ed2/attachment.html From jforjames at aol.com Mon Nov 3 16:10:30 2008 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames@aol.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:19 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] =?utf-8?q?poet_and_the_world_=E2=80=94Wislawa_Szymb?= =?utf-8?q?orska_?= Message-ID: <8CB0C0FBC94484A-650-150@mblk-d37.sysops.aol.com> http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=2008%5C11%5C03%5Cstory_3-11-2008_pg3_4 The poet and the world ?Wislawa Szymborska In more fortunate countries, where human dignity isn?t assaulted so readily, poets yearn, of course, to be published, read, and understood, but they do little, if anything, to set themselves above the common herd and the daily grind. And yet it wasn?t so long ago, in this century?s first decades, that poets strove to shock us with their extravagant dress and eccentric behaviour. But all this was merely for the sake of public display. The moment always came when poets had to close the doors behind them, strip off their mantles, fripperies, and other poetic paraphernalia, and confront ? silently, patiently awaiting their own selves ? the still white sheet of paper. For this is finally what really counts. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081103/a87ad1c9/attachment.html From jforjames at aol.com Mon Nov 3 17:18:13 2008 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames@aol.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:19 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Geof Huth Message-ID: <8CB0C1932389BED-684-4A8@WEBMAIL-DC07.sysops.aol.com> Poetry has a feature on VizPo?Today... http://www.poetryfoundation.org/journal/feature.html?id=182397 (See, Bob, the world is taking notice.) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081103/42b23957/attachment.html From rog3r.day at gmail.com Mon Nov 3 17:40:55 2008 From: rog3r.day at gmail.com (Roger Day) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:19 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Never Mind The Pollocks In-Reply-To: <7db1d01b0811031027v5d668b8cld7f025638dfbb027@mail.gmail.com> References: <7db1d01b0811030729m33706a3k5110eb0dcc6e9c1d@mail.gmail.com> <7db1d01b0811031027v5d668b8cld7f025638dfbb027@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: I have to find where the text lives before I write about it. Text has to come around the subject, either as part of it or because of it. If I can't find any text, it don't get written. It's a modal thing, I cannot write and draw at the same time. I can feed in words to my painting - at one stage, I was obliterating my words with thick, heavy layers of transparent blue paint. Umm. Might try that again. But dealing with pre-configured semantic signs (words, alphabets), and configuring signs into meaning something (sculpting, painting, drawing etc) seem to me two modal operations that my hands cannot handle. Maybe it's me but something like concrete poetry is dealt with step-wise and incrementally, alternating between words then shapes. I'd be interested on hearing from anyone else on this. The best inspiration comes when I'm not thinking. If I'm watching something I have to be doing something. My hands think for me; if I'm doing origami or, my latest venture with train tickets. I'm doing pre and post rationalisation folds on scrunched-up tickets, they look like moths so I'm going to construct a cardboard display cabinet, and pin the folded up piece of card there. But the scrunching and the rationalisations are sometimes planned, but mostly my fingers just do, solving problems for me. Same for playing the guitar, or writing or drawing. My hands think for me. They're the ones doing the work. Most of the time, my brain isn't even in the loop, it's usually somewhere else, watching crap TV or worrying. This crosses over at a conceptual level, for me, in cubism. The cubist sense of collage informs everything I do, including observational drawing. I'm currently drawing shoes. I do about 30 minutes a day on the same subject if I'm lucky. Each day, the shoe is viewed slightly differently. The distance is subtly changed, the light changes, I've knocked the shoe and I have to return the shoe back to nearly the original position. My "final" picture is a composite of all those different views. The picture has it's own logic, independent yet dependent on the subject. Cubism informs my poetry; I try, mostly unsuccessfully, to make my poems out of fragments, devoid of any "I", even when the "I" is there. Interestingly, I was listening to Susan Blackmore on Radio 3 talk about the non-existence of the "I" in the human brain. Humans, she went on, are "choice machines", working constantly in parallel, with no "I" as the centre. The I we perceive is an illusion. As a result, there is no free-will. (Blackmore goes on to say that if we mapped the grid-matrix of choices, then we might be have determination but I believe that, too is an illusion; I think we are chaotic choice machines: until the choice resolves it's choices, we cannot say which way it will go.) I would like to say that science caught up with Art, but then Will Self did a talk on consciousness in the 19th century novel and apparently demolished any literary pretensions in that direction. I would like to think that photography nudged painting which in turn exploded poetry and literary notions of the "I" but I know that's too simple. I think, mostly, that the conceptual formalities are a post-rationalisation. Once upon a time I tried to clear my mind and write something at least once a day. I produced a lot of words. Like a sculptor, I cut back a lot of the words, negative, and, positively, added more; and changed some. I read and re-read, just like I draw and re-draw. Sometimes, they work as planned, sometimes not. I'm having to learn about colour, step by step, by copying fine art postcards. I'm having to develop a sense of colour as I don't think my sense of colour comes naturally. I love it to pieces, like you, but I find it hard to manipulate. My studio is too cold, so I've been buying colour pencils. I hadn't realised there was so much choice about. Roger On Mon, Nov 3, 2008 at 6:27 PM, Judy Prince wrote: > OK, R'Owl. I'm a colour-freak but can't handle it aesthetically responsibly > like geniuses such as Pollock. If I had my way, I'd stare at a rainbow or > wall washed in prism-colours all day, tiny coloured lites on every tree and > bush. So I hafta begin like a baby with b/w. Paul Oxborough [sp?] did the > 2 year only black painting thing. Some of his works're nifty [I've only > seen the ones in colours]; my faves are woman at the piano, a tiny work; and > his self-portrait peeling an orange. > Pretty much all styles and periods intrigue me, but recently mainly bcuz of > Peter Ciccariello's poems that blow my mind, I'm tryna figure out why, and > experimenting with poems and drawings that give me the same 'feel' as his > poems do. > Main feeling I get is that somehow the top of my head lifts up and stays > that way while I'm reading Peter's poems or writing/reading my lately ones. > The rest of my head, from eyes down, functions as an indulgent, sleepy but > alert, sharp, benign editor. > Same things with the latest b/w illustrations, but it's a lot more > difficult. The editor-eyes pull the top of my head down quite frequently, > alas. Don't know why the diff btn poetry and painting headtop actions. > Mite be as simple as my feeling more comfortable with words than with > image-jugglings. Helps me to get blank paper and marker, think about how > I'm gonna illustrate a thing; then, having thought of the ways, to just say > "oh fuck" and go with something altogether different and weird. It's > possible to do this more easily when the viewers are my 5 yr old grandtwins > bcuz they make fewer assumptions about what's 'normal' [or at least they > don't seem surprised at what they see]. The whole area of 'mistakes' > doesn't really apply, therefore. Lovely, nah? ;-) > Your turn now, > joodles > > > > 2008/11/3 Roger Day >> >> I was wondering about the relationship of your work with Pollocks? >> >> On Mon, Nov 3, 2008 at 3:29 PM, Judy Prince >> wrote: >> > You're asking all the delicious questions, R'Owl, and you've the talent, >> > background, and perseverance to get a spread of answers. How about >> > xpanding >> > your field of artists unlimitedly, both the painters and the poets? >> > On NP, am loving the chat about Franz Kline, for example, looking at the >> > sublim[e]inal samenesses in old Chinese calligraphy, FK's works, and my >> > recent attempts at illustrating using fat black marker pens [as a quick >> > way >> > to approximate some of the look of woodcuts]---and most excitingly to >> > note >> > those techniques' and effects' similarities in the poems of Peter >> > Ciccariello and my latest ones. >> > What say you about your works, fine art and poetic, and their possible >> > relationships with others'? >> > Best, >> > joodles >> > >> > 2008/11/3 Roger Day >> >> >> >> The admiration for Pollock expressed in this forum is shared by me. >> >> However, I have .. questions. Art practice is about control: control >> >> of media, the reader/viewer, experience ... yet Pollock pushes those >> >> boundaries. Oh, he has a modicum control in that each painting is a >> >> selection of colours and he places them - approximately and this is >> >> the rub - where he wants but if Art practice is continuum of control >> >> to un-control, then his methods swing to the latter unlike, say, >> >> Rothko whose methods veer towards absolute control. Who are Pollocks >> >> heirs? Not many, I think. Damien Hirst for one, possibly. Any others? >> >> >> >> My tutor hated Pollock to the extent that Pollock disappeared off his >> >> teaching map. >> >> >> >> How does this translate into poetry? If poetic practice is about >> >> control, whose poetical methods resemble Pollocks? Whose poetry is the >> >> parallel of Pollocks paintings? >> >> >> >> Roger >> >> -- >> >> My Stuff: http://www.badstep.net/ >> >> "I began to warm and chill >> >> to objects and their fields" >> >> Nick Cave & The Bad Seeds >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> New-Poetry mailing list >> >> New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu >> >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > New-Poetry mailing list >> > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu >> > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> > >> > >> >> >> >> -- >> My Stuff: http://www.badstep.net/ >> "I began to warm and chill >> to objects and their fields" >> Nick Cave & The Bad Seeds >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- My Stuff: http://www.badstep.net/ "I began to warm and chill to objects and their fields" Nick Cave & The Bad Seeds From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Mon Nov 3 17:46:33 2008 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:19 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Geof Huth In-Reply-To: <8CB0C1932389BED-684-4A8@WEBMAIL-DC07.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CB0C1932389BED-684-4A8@WEBMAIL-DC07.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <4b65c2d70811031446w518531e1i457b5ef6c2bcacd4@mail.gmail.com> Geof Huth is becoming my hero. Thank you for forwarding the article, James. This will keep that Grumpy Bobb silent for a while. On Mon, Nov 3, 2008 at 11:18 PM, wrote: > Poetry has a feature on VizPo Today... > > http://www.poetryfoundation.org/journal/feature.html?id=182397 > > > (See, Bob, the world is taking notice.) > ------------------------------ > McCain or Obama? Stay up to date on the latest from the campaign trail with > AOL News. > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081103/cf0bd7d6/attachment.html From rog3r.day at gmail.com Mon Nov 3 18:06:53 2008 From: rog3r.day at gmail.com (Roger Day) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:19 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetics In-Reply-To: <490B979B.4040008@nut-n-but.net> References: <490B4637.3090900@nut-n-but.net> <490B50D3.5080805@nut-n-but.net> <67AF4E0D302549B18CEC332770A92F2B@RobinPC> <490B899B.6000201@nut-n-but.net> <70737A81D33E4C7B9EEF995F19392CD2@RobinPC> <490B979B.4040008@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: http://www.dmblack.me.uk/ We shut the red judge in a bronze jar -By "we", meaning myself and the black judge - And there was peace, for a time. You can have enough Yowling from certain justices. The jar We buried, (pitching and swelling like the tough Membrane of an unshelled egg), on the Calton Hill. And there was peace, for a time. My friend the black Judge was keen on whisky, and I kept Within earshot of sobriety only by drinking Slow ciders, and pretending Unfelt absorption in the repetitive beer-mats. It was a kind of Vibration we noticed first - hard to tell Whether we heard it or were shaken by, Whether the tumblers quivered, or our minds. It grew To a thick thudding, and an occasional creak Like a nearby axle, but as it were Without the sense of "nearby". - The hard flag- stones wriggled slightly under the taut linoleum. I supported the black judge to the nearest door - Detached his clutched glass for the protesting barman - And propped him against a bus-stop. Maybe It was only a pneumatic drill mating at Queen Street, Or an impotent motor-bike - the sounds grew harsher. My gestures stopped a 24 that spat Some eleventh commandment out of its sober driver, But I was more conscious of the rocking walls, The pavement's shrugging off its granite kerb... Quite suddenly the night was still: the cracks In the roadway rested, and the tenements Of Rose Street stood inscrutable as always. The black judge Snored at his post. And all around The bright blood filled the gutters, overflowed The window-sills and doorsteps, soaked my anyway Inadequate shoes, and there was a sound of cheering Faintly and everywhere, and the Red Judge walked O thirty feet high and scarlet towards our stop. On Fri, Oct 31, 2008 at 11:41 PM, Bob Grumman wrote: > Robin Hamilton wrote: > > << > I mean, don't the British have greenhouses? >>> > > I'm told they prefer allotments ... > > But as a descriptor, "British" is a non-starter .... Try English Irish > Scottish Welsh .... > > > Any of the preceding. > > << > Maybe he's more bardic in his later poems, like the North American Sequence > (if I have the name right), than British poets are, I dunno. What you have > goin' in the bardic line crost the seas, Robin? >>> > > Well, I mean, other than our currently bearded archbish of Canterbury who's > an Authentic Welsh Aestedfod Bard, dunno ... > > > > "Bardic" poetry calls up to my mind Dylan Thomas and the whole sorry > catastrophe of the Apocalypse Group of the forties. > > Before that, Thomas Gray and "The Bard". > > I'm thinking Whitmanesque, but with Wordsworthian apoetheoses. > > > << > Hughes a little, but not like Roethke, whose best poems, for me, are like > Shaman journeys from utter darkness finally after great struggle to > exaltation--Wordsworthian exaltation, it now strikes me. . . >>> > > Oh, Crow -- well, if that's what you mean by shaman poetry ... > > > A little. Maybe the Crow series as a whole. > > Actually, if I had to put my hat to a name of who wrote authentic shaman > poetry this side of the Pond, it would be D.M.Black. > > Robin > > I don't know his work. > > --Bob > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- My Stuff: http://www.badstep.net/ "I began to warm and chill to objects and their fields" Nick Cave & The Bad Seeds From halvard at earthlink.net Mon Nov 3 18:17:00 2008 From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:19 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Geof Huth In-Reply-To: <4b65c2d70811031446w518531e1i457b5ef6c2bcacd4@mail.gmail.com> References: <8CB0C1932389BED-684-4A8@WEBMAIL-DC07.sysops.aol.com> <4b65c2d70811031446w518531e1i457b5ef6c2bcacd4@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <05D7DC08-A7DF-4965-BCF3-14F6D6E054B1@earthlink.net> I'm working up a fondness for Invizpo. Hal McCain / Palin -- Just say thanks but no thanks. They're a bridge to nowhere. Halvard Johnson ================ halvard@earthlink.net halvard@gmail.com http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html On Nov 3, 2008, at 4:46 PM, Anny Ballardini wrote: > Geof Huth is becoming my hero. Thank you for forwarding the article, > James. > This will keep that Grumpy Bobb silent for a while. > > On Mon, Nov 3, 2008 at 11:18 PM, wrote: > Poetry has a feature on VizPo Today... > > http://www.poetryfoundation.org/journal/feature.html?id=182397 > > > (See, Bob, the world is taking notice.) > > McCain or Obama? Stay up to date on the latest from the campaign > trail with AOL News. > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > -- > Anny Ballardini > http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ > http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome > http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html > I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a > dancing star! > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081103/e83a4840/attachment.html From rog3r.day at gmail.com Mon Nov 3 18:48:12 2008 From: rog3r.day at gmail.com (Roger Day) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:20 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Geof Huth In-Reply-To: <05D7DC08-A7DF-4965-BCF3-14F6D6E054B1@earthlink.net> References: <8CB0C1932389BED-684-4A8@WEBMAIL-DC07.sysops.aol.com> <4b65c2d70811031446w518531e1i457b5ef6c2bcacd4@mail.gmail.com> <05D7DC08-A7DF-4965-BCF3-14F6D6E054B1@earthlink.net> Message-ID: I believe you need some onions and a small, sharp utensil. Roger On Mon, Nov 3, 2008 at 11:17 PM, Halvard Johnson wrote: > I'm working up a fondness for Invizpo. > Hal > McCain / Palin -- Just say thanks but no thanks. > They're a bridge to nowhere. > Halvard Johnson > ================ > halvard@earthlink.net > halvard@gmail.com > http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > http://www.hamiltonstone.org > http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html > > > On Nov 3, 2008, at 4:46 PM, Anny Ballardini wrote: > > Geof Huth is becoming my hero. Thank you for forwarding the article, James. > This will keep that Grumpy Bobb silent for a while. > > On Mon, Nov 3, 2008 at 11:18 PM, wrote: >> >> Poetry has a feature on VizPo Today... >> >> http://www.poetryfoundation.org/journal/feature.html?id=182397 >> >> >> (See, Bob, the world is taking notice.) >> ________________________________ >> McCain or Obama? Stay up to date on the latest from the campaign trail >> with AOL News. >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> > > > > -- > Anny Ballardini > http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ > http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome > http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html > I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing > star! > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- My Stuff: http://www.badstep.net/ "I began to warm and chill to objects and their fields" Nick Cave & The Bad Seeds From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Mon Nov 3 18:55:07 2008 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:20 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Never Mind The Pollocks In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <490F8F5B.7040805@nut-n-but.net> Roger Day wrote: > The admiration for Pollock expressed in this forum is shared by me. > However, I have .. questions. Art practice is about control: control > of media, the reader/viewer, experience ... yet Pollock pushes those > boundaries. Oh, he has a modicum control in that each painting is a > selection of colours and he places them - approximately and this is > the rub - where he wants but if Art practice is continuum of control > to un-control, then his methods swing to the latter unlike, say, > Rothko whose methods veer towards absolute control. Who are Pollocks > heirs? Not many, I think. Damien Hirst for one, possibly. Any others? > Not Hirst, as far as I can tell--but I'm not a fan of Hirst, so don't know many of his paintings. Sam Francis was Pollock's greatest (close) heir, I would say. I like his paintings, some of them, better than Pollock's--but they aren't as important since derivative--or, more derivative than Pollock's were. Deciding who else was an heir is difficult since, to me, everyone following him in non-representational painting was an heir of his to an extent. But there are lots of painters effectively doing what he did my subscriptions to ARTnews and Art in America tell me. And, ahem, I'm very much an heir of his in my mathemaku. Your questions about control/freedom for control (I would call it rather than "lack of control) are good ones. No time for them right now--except to note that I've called John M. Bennett the Pollock of American poetry in that in many of his solitextual (solely textual) poems, he in effect sprays words, many of them highly visceral, primitive, subliterate, on a page and succeeds, for me, in capturing the sub-cerebral essence of the human psychology better than any other poet I know--and, yes, I do think that a huge value to capture. Many visual poets are children of Pollock in their graphic effects, besides me. Jim Leftwich, for instance. I find it interesting that you seem not to consider the visual influence of Pollock on poets. --Bob G. > My tutor hated Pollock to the extent that Pollock disappeared off his > teaching map. > > How does this translate into poetry? If poetic practice is about > control, whose poetical methods resemble Pollocks? Whose poetry is the > parallel of Pollocks paintings? > > Roger > From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Mon Nov 3 19:02:09 2008 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:20 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetics (was Poetic Justice) In-Reply-To: References: <490EDF3F.2050208@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <490F9101.10304@nut-n-but.net> Halvard Johnson wrote: > The future of one-word poems looks bright to me, > compared, say, to the future of poems consisting > of exactly 367 words. There's not much of a past > there either. > > Hal I guess that's one way of looking at it, Hal. But I think implicit in the idea of one-word poems is the idea of maximally condensed poems. I would add that my second thought is that there may well be a lot of new things that can be done with such poems, especially using animation. Also, like any other form, it will surely go into obscurity for a while, then be re-discovered. --Bob G. From Opus40-01 at opus40.org Mon Nov 3 19:52:40 2008 From: Opus40-01 at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:20 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Never Mind The Pollocks In-Reply-To: <490F8F5B.7040805@nut-n-but.net> References: <490F8F5B.7040805@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <490F9CD8.5000303@opus40.org> From a painter friend, on the question of who carried the Pollock legacy forward: I would say the splash and drippers of the color field, late sixties movements, like Jules Olitski; Sam Francis from the fifties, and Larry Poons, who started off tight with lozenges, splashes paint around. Brice Marden's Cold Mountain paintings are a bit Pollockian to me. Basically all process painters, who go through a series of set moves and exhibit the results are Pollockian. Bob Grumman wrote: > Roger Day wrote: >> The admiration for Pollock expressed in this forum is shared by me. >> However, I have .. questions. Art practice is about control: control >> of media, the reader/viewer, experience ... yet Pollock pushes those >> boundaries. Oh, he has a modicum control in that each painting is a >> selection of colours and he places them - approximately and this is >> the rub - where he wants but if Art practice is continuum of control >> to un-control, then his methods swing to the latter unlike, say, >> Rothko whose methods veer towards absolute control. Who are Pollocks >> heirs? Not many, I think. Damien Hirst for one, possibly. Any others? >> > Not Hirst, as far as I can tell--but I'm not a fan of Hirst, so don't > know many of his paintings. Sam Francis was Pollock's greatest > (close) heir, I would say. I like his paintings, some of them, better > than Pollock's--but they aren't as important since derivative--or, > more derivative than Pollock's were. Deciding who else was an heir is > difficult since, to me, everyone following him in non-representational > painting was an heir of his to an extent. But there are lots of > painters effectively doing what he did my subscriptions to ARTnews and > Art in America tell me. And, ahem, I'm very much an heir of his in my > mathemaku. > > Your questions about control/freedom for control (I would call it > rather than "lack of control) are good ones. No time for them right > now--except to note that I've called John M. Bennett the Pollock of > American poetry in that in many of his solitextual (solely textual) > poems, he in effect sprays words, many of them highly visceral, > primitive, subliterate, on a page and succeeds, for me, in capturing > the sub-cerebral essence of the human psychology better than any other > poet I know--and, yes, I do think that a huge value to capture. > > Many visual poets are children of Pollock in their graphic effects, > besides me. Jim Leftwich, for instance. I find it interesting that > you seem not to consider the visual influence of Pollock on poets. > > --Bob G. >> My tutor hated Pollock to the extent that Pollock disappeared off his >> teaching map. >> >> How does this translate into poetry? If poetic practice is about >> control, whose poetical methods resemble Pollocks? Whose poetry is the >> parallel of Pollocks paintings? >> >> Roger >> > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ Don't forget to order your copy of FILM NOIR! http://stores.lulu.com/store.php?fAcctID=2712239 From halvard at earthlink.net Mon Nov 3 19:56:16 2008 From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:20 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetics (was Poetic Justice) In-Reply-To: <490F9101.10304@nut-n-but.net> References: <490EDF3F.2050208@nut-n-but.net> <490F9101.10304@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: Hmm, I thought the one-word poem school was pretty much in obscurity now. Here's one by Saroyan that makes one-word poems seem verbose: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 20.html.gif Type: image/gif Size: 758 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081103/618a2c12/20.html.gif -------------- next part -------------- --Aram Saroyan Hal McCain / Palin -- Just say thanks but no thanks. They're a bridge to nowhere. Halvard Johnson ================ halvard@earthlink.net halvard@gmail.com http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html On Nov 3, 2008, at 6:02 PM, Bob Grumman wrote: > Halvard Johnson wrote: >> The future of one-word poems looks bright to me, >> compared, say, to the future of poems consisting >> of exactly 367 words. There's not much of a past >> there either. >> >> Hal > I guess that's one way of looking at it, Hal. But I think implicit > in the idea of one-word poems is the idea of maximally condensed > poems. I would add that my second thought is that there may well be > a lot of new things that can be done with such poems, especially > using animation. Also, like any other form, it will surely go into > obscurity for a while, then be re-discovered. > > > --Bob G. > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Mon Nov 3 21:03:55 2008 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:20 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Geof Huth In-Reply-To: <8CB0C1932389BED-684-4A8@WEBMAIL-DC07.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CB0C1932389BED-684-4A8@WEBMAIL-DC07.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <490FAD8B.3070908@nut-n-but.net> jforjames@aol.com wrote: > Poetry has a feature on VizPo Today... > > http://www.poetryfoundation.org/journal/feature.html?id=182397 > > > (See, Bob, the world is taking notice.) Right, James. The latest issue of Poetry has a spread of full-color visual poems. I announced that it would several months ago. The question is whether Poetry will do anything more for visual poetry, like publishing it regularly, or--much better--allowing someone into its pages intelligently to discuss it. I fear tokenism in this case, but who knows. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081103/abc8eece/attachment.html From jjeffreymail at yahoo.com Mon Nov 3 21:16:49 2008 From: jjeffreymail at yahoo.com (John Jeffrey) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:20 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetics (was Poetic Justice) Message-ID: <414078.85108.qm@web54108.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Here's another none-word poem, though this one has a title. (It's by Don Patterson.) On Going to Meet a Zen Master in the Kyushu Mountains and Not Finding Him for A.G. JohnJ ________________________________ From: Halvard Johnson To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views" Sent: Monday, November 3, 2008 7:56:16 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Poetics (was Poetic Justice) Hmm, I thought the one-word poem school was pretty much in obscurity now. Here's one by Saroyan that makes one-word poems seem verbose: --Aram Saroyan Hal McCain / Palin -- Just say thanks but no thanks. They're a bridge to nowhere. Halvard Johnson ================ halvard@earthlink.net halvard@gmail.com http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html On Nov 3, 2008, at 6:02 PM, Bob Grumman wrote: > Halvard Johnson wrote: >> The future of one-word poems looks bright to me, >> compared, say, to the future of poems consisting >> of exactly 367 words. There's not much of a past >> there either. >> >> Hal > I guess that's one way of looking at it, Hal. But I think implicit > in the idea of one-word poems is the idea of maximally condensed > poems. I would add that my second thought is that there may well be > a lot of new things that can be done with such poems, especially > using animation. Also, like any other form, it will surely go into > obscurity for a while, then be re-discovered. > > > --Bob G. > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081103/70cdfb58/attachment.html From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Mon Nov 3 21:27:13 2008 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:20 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetics (was Poetic Justice) In-Reply-To: <414078.85108.qm@web54108.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <414078.85108.qm@web54108.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <490FB301.7040007@nut-n-but.net> John Jeffrey wrote: > Here's another none-word poem, though this one has a title. (It's by > Don Patterson.) > > > On Going to Meet a Zen Master in the Kyushu Mountains and Not Finding Him > for A.G. Could resist annoying everyone with my instant variation: On Going to Meet a Zen Master in the Kyushu Mountains and Finding Him -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081103/dee27b95/attachment.html From grahamd at ripon.edu Mon Nov 3 21:39:21 2008 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:20 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Concrete & fluid poetry In-Reply-To: <414078.85108.qm@web54108.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <414078.85108.qm@web54108.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <5B9323DD-FC8E-4A77-A3AB-CC45FFF707E7@ripon.edu> One of the first poetry anthologies I ever purchased, and probably still the best on my shelf in terms of aesthetic inclusiveness, is Milton Klonsky's 1973 *Shake the Kaleidoscope: A New Anthology of Modern Poetry*. Long out of print, but it still pops up in used bookstores from time to time. I highly recommend it. First place I ever read Weldon Kees, Bill Knott, Russell Edson, Charles Reznikoff, Melvin Tolson, Kenneth Fearing, Mina Loy, Gertrude Stein, George Oppen, Edward Field, and many others. Jim Harrison, too, then calling himself James. . . . It also had the first spread of what was then termed concrete poetry that I'd encountered. International in scope, too. Bob G. probably knows the names, which in addition to the famous Aram Saroyan, also included Ronald Johnson, Decio Pignatari, Emmett Williams, Ronaldo Azeredo, Ian Hamilton Finlay, Reinhard Dohl, et al. That really was a golden time in publishing, when such mass market paperbacks really were to be found in drug stores (where I bought mine, as I recall), airline terminals, and so forth; and when an anthology gathering the likes of Walter De La Mare, Philip Larkin, Mina Loy, J. V. Cunningham, Denise Levertov, Robert Lowell, Sylvia Plath, Richard Brautigan, James Merrill, Charles Simic, and Aram Saroyan raised no particular eyebrows. ======================================== David Graham grahamd@ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.mac.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== On Nov 3, 2008, at 8:16 PM, John Jeffrey wrote: > Here's another none-word poem, though this one has a title. (It's > by Don Patterson.) > > > On Going to Meet a Zen Master in the Kyushu Mountains and Not > Finding Him > for A.G. > > > > > > JohnJ > > > From: Halvard Johnson > To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views" poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu> > Sent: Monday, November 3, 2008 7:56:16 PM > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Poetics (was Poetic Justice) > > Hmm, I thought the one-word poem school was pretty much > in obscurity now. > > Here's one by Saroyan that makes one-word poems seem verbose: > > > > > > --Aram Saroyan > > > Hal > > McCain / Palin -- Just say thanks but no thanks. > They're a bridge to nowhere. > > Halvard Johnson > ================ > halvard@earthlink.net > halvard@gmail.com > http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > http://www.hamiltonstone.org > http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html > > > > On Nov 3, 2008, at 6:02 PM, Bob Grumman wrote: > > > Halvard Johnson wrote: > >> The future of one-word poems looks bright to me, > >> compared, say, to the future of poems consisting > >> of exactly 367 words. There's not much of a past > >> there either. > >> > >> Hal > > I guess that's one way of looking at it, Hal. But I think implicit > > in the idea of one-word poems is the idea of maximally condensed > > poems. I would add that my second thought is that there may well be > > a lot of new things that can be done with such poems, especially > > using animation. Also, like any other form, it will surely go into > > obscurity for a while, then be re-discovered. > > > > > > --Bob G. > > > > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081103/e5612b27/attachment.html From jjeffreymail at yahoo.com Mon Nov 3 22:49:26 2008 From: jjeffreymail at yahoo.com (John Jeffrey) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:20 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetic Justice Message-ID: <867862.51221.qm@web54108.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Oliver's stuff is probably great for postcards. I can picture a line or two on top of a glossy photo of the woods or a close up of a flowering plant or a bird. Yes, yes, she can write, put a smooth sentence together, describe a scene, but she heavy bores me. I know that Bob said it was unfair to comment on only the first stanza and that maybe I have to give the poem time, but I did read the whole poem; I gave it the time. (Then I dozed off for a bit.) I just think the opening is a good example of one of my issues with contemporary poetry. (I just re-read it. Now I'm tired again.) About what I wanted to hear from this group, it's nothing more than discussions about poetry and poets. The list is "New Poetry," so I figured that new poetry would be discussed, perhaps in some depth. That's it. It's impossible to read (or even to have heard of) all the poetry that's coming out: joining this group was a way of expanding my circle. I know plenty of poets (I write a newsletter that lists the readings in my state, which keeps me in touch with the poetry reading crowd), but though many of them write poetry, they don't seem toread too much of it. It's a strange phenomenon, rife in poetry: People feel they can practice the art without studying it. So those folks don't talk the talk. But I figured an email list of poets talking about poetry would talk about poets and poetry. (Did you follow that?) And this seems a diverse crowd. I hadn't heard of many of the poets in the group before joining the group, which also is a good thing. I'd heard Tad Richards read and was an early subscriber to Situations. And, even before joining the group, I had bought and have smilingly (and sometimes in teeth-gnashed envy) read R.S. Gwynn's book, No Word of Farewell. But none of the others, though I've now visited some web sites or done some searching. It's a good group to eavesdrop. The circle expands, stretched out in some bizarre ways, at times, yes. But who needs a perfect circle anyway. JohnJ not in Indiana ________________________________ From: Judy Prince To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &, Views" Sent: Saturday, November 1, 2008 11:59:18 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Poetic Justice Of course, John, everything you've said, and I quite like how you said it, too. I'm a virgin reader of Mary Oliver, having read 4 lines of hers which I liked, from I guess [sent to me by a friend on 2 different collaged postcards] a couple different poems, as well as the lines of hers you've pasted in below. If I read more of her work, will I be shockedly impressed at its poetry? I don't think so. But I'd like to read some of your poems. Now then, what is it that you've been wanting to hear from these doltish fellows, Hal Johnson, Robin Hamilton, and the GrumMan and others on this list? [just joined it m'sel' 4 months ago, so not quite sure what's going on yet] OH dear, forgot I'd promised Bob I'd send him a poem I love and label Breathtaking. I label the following poem Tongue-Tinsel and Brain-Reset, with a flying approach to near-Breathtaking: Oct 24, 2008 12:16 AM I love the purring of knowing them by Peter Ciccariello I love the purring of knowing them, So I will be moving the useless telephone Of my monstrous self to the ubiquitous ringtone That has been disrupting everyone's sleep When is a heaven such a useless tell? The letters and burning envelopes Resting so soft and full on the edge of your bedside table Are the only existing explanations of our archeology. Listening to the warm purring of the flames against the laid paper Reminds one how unpredictably disaster follows reticulation These all should arrive in your post next week, the edges of the burning, the purring, and the love. Asking you only to tell them that I am gone, lover, That we found all the evidence lover, and went ahead anyway, with full knowledge of our actions. I scratched all this conveniently in the mahogany On your side of the bed ------------------------------- 2008/10/30 John Jeffrey Bob, I didn't mean to give the impression that I was attacking your kind of art, and I apologize if you felt that. I only disagree with the definition of creativity. I wouldn't have the snowballs to attack your fort because, to be honest, I don't understand New Poetry. I've tried. I've read it. I've read theory. But I get nothing. And not just the otherstreams, either. Even the major rivers leave me nodding off on the banks. A few weeks ago, the Writer's Almanac had one of those yawners that makes me weep at the state of poetry. The title was "The Poet Goes to Indiana" (by Mary Oliver) and the first stanza read: I'll tell you a half-dozen things that happened to me in Indiana when I went that far west to teach. You tell me if it was worth it. By the time I got to the third line I was thinking, What do I care? And look at that third line: "In Indiana." In Indiana? That's worthy of its own line? a principal unit? a piece of the pie? a lego block? a thought that adds to the whole? Bah! No beauty in the writing. No form to flatter. No images. No surprises. Nothing but chit-chatty broken out by grammatical clauses. Bah, I say again. And I'd dismiss is except that it's not atypical. I think we're in a poetic bear market. Those near-empty spaces that you see if you look at poetry timelines, like the post Milton dirth. We're in the dirth after a pretty good early 20th century. It's been trending downward since. (Though I'll admit my tastes are demode.) That's one of the reasons I joined this group: to read contemporary poets talking about contemporary poetry. I thought that maybe some understanding would leap from the emails into my eyes. But it's slow coming. John ________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081103/e8e4aa12/attachment.html From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Mon Nov 3 22:50:26 2008 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:20 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Concrete & fluid poetry In-Reply-To: <5B9323DD-FC8E-4A77-A3AB-CC45FFF707E7@ripon.edu> References: <414078.85108.qm@web54108.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <5B9323DD-FC8E-4A77-A3AB-CC45FFF707E7@ripon.edu> Message-ID: <490FC682.6010604@nut-n-but.net> David Graham wrote: > One of the first poetry anthologies I ever purchased, and probably > still the best on my shelf in terms of aesthetic inclusiveness, is > Milton Klonsky's 1973 *Shake the Kaleidoscope: A New Anthology of > Modern Poetry*. Long out of print, but it still pops up in used > bookstores from time to time. I highly recommend it. Yikes, David, I'm chagrined to say I've never even heard of this anthology. Sounds like an item I should definitely have, though. --Bob G. From wwmorgan at ilstu.edu Mon Nov 3 23:03:42 2008 From: wwmorgan at ilstu.edu (Bill Morgan) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:20 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Concrete & fluid poetry In-Reply-To: <490FC682.6010604@nut-n-but.net> References: <414078.85108.qm@web54108.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <5B9323DD-FC8E-4A77-A3AB-CC45FFF707E7@ripon.edu> <490FC682.6010604@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <036101c93e32$540f8540$fc2e8fc0$@edu> Bookfinder shows 30 copies for sale at prices ranging from 5.98 to 44.21. http://www.bookfinder.com/search/?ac=sl&st=sl&qi=dsS7ad2.6KsjXs8TpxuOtQomnG4 _4860274605_1:2:24&bq=author%3Dmilton%2520klonsky%26title%3Dshake%2520the%25 20kaleidoscope cheers, Bill Morgan David Graham wrote: > One of the first poetry anthologies I ever purchased, and probably > still the best on my shelf in terms of aesthetic inclusiveness, is > Milton Klonsky's 1973 *Shake the Kaleidoscope: A New Anthology of > Modern Poetry*. Long out of print, but it still pops up in used > bookstores from time to time. I highly recommend it. Yikes, David, I'm chagrined to say I've never even heard of this anthology. Sounds like an item I should definitely have, though. --Bob G. _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Tue Nov 4 02:09:25 2008 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:20 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] for Hal & Co. Message-ID: <4b65c2d70811032309r6ad4174fu583f755b78ed48f7@mail.gmail.com> Received this morning in my mailbox: An idiot is an idiot Two idiots are two idiots One thousand idiots are a political party_ -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081104/f3e1c0c7/attachment.html From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Tue Nov 4 05:05:36 2008 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:20 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Geof Huth In-Reply-To: <490FAD8B.3070908@nut-n-but.net> References: <8CB0C1932389BED-684-4A8@WEBMAIL-DC07.sysops.aol.com> <490FAD8B.3070908@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <4b65c2d70811040205q7d80c1d5v229a87d085b703bb@mail.gmail.com> Yes, I can remember clearly, now that Bob mentions it, that he announced the issue. On Tue, Nov 4, 2008 at 3:03 AM, Bob Grumman wrote: > jforjames@aol.com wrote: > > Poetry has a feature on VizPo Today... > > http://www.poetryfoundation.org/journal/feature.html?id=182397 > > > (See, Bob, the world is taking notice.) > > Right, James. The latest issue of Poetry has a spread of full-color visual > poems. I announced that it would several months ago. The question is > whether Poetry will do anything more for visual poetry, like publishing it > regularly, or--much better--allowing someone into its pages intelligently to > discuss it. I fear tokenism in this case, but who knows. > > --Bob > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081104/f0566dcd/attachment.html From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Tue Nov 4 07:09:59 2008 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:21 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetic Justice In-Reply-To: <867862.51221.qm@web54108.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <867862.51221.qm@web54108.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <49103B97.2010902@nut-n-but.net> John Jeffrey wrote: > Oliver's stuff is probably great for postcards. I can picture a line > or two on top of a glossy photo of the woods or a close up of a > flowering plant or a bird. Yes, yes, she can write, put a smooth > sentence together, describe a scene, but she heavy bores me. I know > that Bob said it was unfair to comment on only the first stanza and > that maybe I have to give the poem time, but I did read the whole > poem; I gave it the time. (Then I dozed off for a bit.) I just think > the opening is a good example of one of my issues with contemporary > poetry. (I just re-read it. Now I'm tired again.) > > About what I wanted to hear from this group, it's nothing more than > discussions about poetry and poets. The list is "New Poetry," so I > figured that new poetry would be discussed, perhaps in some depth. > That's it. We do occasionally discuss poets and poetry, and poems and poetics, John. But if you're serious about wanting such discussions, you need to start one. I believe I suggested something about your posting some poem that bothered you and telling us in detail why it bothered you, and perhaps another poem you liked and why. Others could take it from there. I still only know that you don't like much or any contemporary poetry, but don't know what contemporary poetry you're talking about, nor exactly why you don't like it, except that it can be boring. --Bob G. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081104/8651fb0e/attachment.html From Opus40-01 at opus40.org Tue Nov 4 09:07:39 2008 From: Opus40-01 at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:21 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Concrete & fluid poetry In-Reply-To: <490FC682.6010604@nut-n-but.net> References: <414078.85108.qm@web54108.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <5B9323DD-FC8E-4A77-A3AB-CC45FFF707E7@ripon.edu> <490FC682.6010604@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <4910572B.9090709@opus40.org> Three used copies at Amazon. Well, two. I just ordered one. Bob Grumman wrote: > David Graham wrote: >> One of the first poetry anthologies I ever purchased, and probably >> still the best on my shelf in terms of aesthetic inclusiveness, is >> Milton Klonsky's 1973 *Shake the Kaleidoscope: A New Anthology of >> Modern Poetry*. Long out of print, but it still pops up in used >> bookstores from time to time. I highly recommend it. > Yikes, David, I'm chagrined to say I've never even heard of this > anthology. Sounds like an item I should definitely have, though. > > --Bob G. > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ Don't forget to order your copy of FILM NOIR! http://stores.lulu.com/store.php?fAcctID=2712239 From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Tue Nov 4 09:17:27 2008 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:21 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Concrete & fluid poetry In-Reply-To: <4910572B.9090709@opus40.org> References: <414078.85108.qm@web54108.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <5B9323DD-FC8E-4A77-A3AB-CC45FFF707E7@ripon.edu> <490FC682.6010604@nut-n-but.net> <4910572B.9090709@opus40.org> Message-ID: <4b65c2d70811040617j34778af8w3cf0e0cf870f7095@mail.gmail.com> I ordered mine yesterday from a Canadian guy at sympatico dot com it is funny because "simpatico" in Italian means "nice" I'll end up having a copy from a nice dot com guy! On Tue, Nov 4, 2008 at 3:07 PM, TheOldMole wrote: > Three used copies at Amazon. Well, two. I just ordered one. > > > Bob Grumman wrote: > >> David Graham wrote: >> >>> One of the first poetry anthologies I ever purchased, and probably still >>> the best on my shelf in terms of aesthetic inclusiveness, is Milton >>> Klonsky's 1973 *Shake the Kaleidoscope: A New Anthology of Modern Poetry*. >>> Long out of print, but it still pops up in used bookstores from time to >>> time. I highly recommend it. >>> >> Yikes, David, I'm chagrined to say I've never even heard of this >> anthology. Sounds like an item I should definitely have, though. >> >> --Bob G. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > -- > Tad Richards > http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ > http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ > > Don't forget to order your copy of FILM NOIR! > http://stores.lulu.com/store.php?fAcctID=2712239 > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081104/d13e5324/attachment.html From halvard at earthlink.net Tue Nov 4 10:23:54 2008 From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:21 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] for Hal & Co. In-Reply-To: <4b65c2d70811032309r6ad4174fu583f755b78ed48f7@mail.gmail.com> References: <4b65c2d70811032309r6ad4174fu583f755b78ed48f7@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <49D6C9F1-978E-496C-9836-39FDE80CB3CC@earthlink.net> And a million idiots? Hal McCain / Palin -- Just say thanks but no thanks. They're a bridge to nowhere. Halvard Johnson ================ halvard@earthlink.net halvard@gmail.com http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html On Nov 4, 2008, at 1:09 AM, Anny Ballardini wrote: > Received this morning in my mailbox: > > An idiot is an idiot > Two idiots are two idiots > One thousand idiots are a political party_ > > > > -- > Anny Ballardini > http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ > http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome > http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html > I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a > dancing star! > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081104/25168268/attachment.html From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Tue Nov 4 10:32:57 2008 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:21 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] for Hal & Co. In-Reply-To: <49D6C9F1-978E-496C-9836-39FDE80CB3CC@earthlink.net> References: <4b65c2d70811032309r6ad4174fu583f755b78ed48f7@mail.gmail.com> <49D6C9F1-978E-496C-9836-39FDE80CB3CC@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <4b65c2d70811040732w13dad83fk31948617c3f6aa46@mail.gmail.com> That's the gov. On Tue, Nov 4, 2008 at 4:23 PM, Halvard Johnson wrote: > And a million idiots? > Hal > > McCain / Palin -- Just say thanks but no thanks. > They're a bridge to nowhere. > > Halvard Johnson > ================ > halvard@earthlink.net > halvard@gmail.com > http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > http://www.hamiltonstone.org > http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html > > > > On Nov 4, 2008, at 1:09 AM, Anny Ballardini wrote: > > Received this morning in my mailbox: > > An idiot is an idiot > Two idiots are two idiots > One thousand idiots are a political party_ > > > > -- > Anny Ballardini > http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ > http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome > http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html > I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing > star! > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081104/eaf6f1dd/attachment.html From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Tue Nov 4 10:33:54 2008 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:21 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] for Hal & Co. In-Reply-To: <4b65c2d70811040732w13dad83fk31948617c3f6aa46@mail.gmail.com> References: <4b65c2d70811032309r6ad4174fu583f755b78ed48f7@mail.gmail.com> <49D6C9F1-978E-496C-9836-39FDE80CB3CC@earthlink.net> <4b65c2d70811040732w13dad83fk31948617c3f6aa46@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4b65c2d70811040733v66140b90pb977b9d847c155e3@mail.gmail.com> Opps, I forgot to complete what I wanted to say, sorry, The Italian Government. On Tue, Nov 4, 2008 at 4:32 PM, Anny Ballardini wrote: > That's the gov. > > > > On Tue, Nov 4, 2008 at 4:23 PM, Halvard Johnson wrote: > >> And a million idiots? >> Hal >> >> McCain / Palin -- Just say thanks but no thanks. >> They're a bridge to nowhere. >> >> Halvard Johnson >> ================ >> halvard@earthlink.net >> halvard@gmail.com >> http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html >> http://entropyandme.blogspot.com >> http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com >> http://www.hamiltonstone.org >> http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html >> >> >> >> On Nov 4, 2008, at 1:09 AM, Anny Ballardini wrote: >> >> Received this morning in my mailbox: >> >> An idiot is an idiot >> Two idiots are two idiots >> One thousand idiots are a political party_ >> >> >> >> -- >> Anny Ballardini >> http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ >> http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome >> http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html >> I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing >> star! >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > > > -- > Anny Ballardini > http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ > http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome > http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html > I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing > star! > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081104/0dd31f0d/attachment.html From halvard at earthlink.net Tue Nov 4 11:20:08 2008 From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:21 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] for Hal & Co. In-Reply-To: <4b65c2d70811032309r6ad4174fu583f755b78ed48f7@mail.gmail.com> References: <4b65c2d70811032309r6ad4174fu583f755b78ed48f7@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Hal is wondering who "& Co." is (or are). McCain / Palin -- Just say thanks but no thanks. They're a bridge to nowhere. Halvard Johnson ================ halvard@earthlink.net halvard@gmail.com http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html On Nov 4, 2008, at 1:09 AM, Anny Ballardini wrote: > Received this morning in my mailbox: > > An idiot is an idiot > Two idiots are two idiots > One thousand idiots are a political party_ > > > > -- > Anny Ballardini > http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ > http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome > http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html > I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a > dancing star! > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081104/4d7dcc06/attachment.html From c288 at hotmail.com Tue Nov 4 12:46:30 2008 From: c288 at hotmail.com (c288@hotmail.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:21 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetic Justice In-Reply-To: References: <676762.85739.qm@web54108.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <490A6630.8010103@nut-n-but.net> <490AE653.6040608@nut-n-but.net> <7db1d01b0811011024m29f07113paba60532ca991fab@mail.gmail.com> <490CB527.1090307@nut-n-but.net> <7db1d01b0811011324j6011843cm4e8faf4a66c780b2@mail.gmail.com> <7db1d01b0811020724g6e069c05n1a458f9981963a43@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: While at LACMA I discovered the current exhibit happened to be Vanity Fair Portraits: Photographs 1913?2008 I was stunned and overwhelmed. I had to revisit twice over to absorb it all. A must see! Vanity Fair Portraits: Photographs1913?2008 October 26, 2008?March 1, 2009 | Hammer Building Vanity Fair Portraits: Photographs 1913?2008 is the first major exhibition to bring together the magazine's historic archive of rare vintage prints with its contemporary photographs. The exhibition explores the ways in which photography and celebrity have interacted and changed, with portraits from the magazine's early period (1913?1936) displayed in conjunction with works from the contemporary Vanity Fair (1983?present). The Los Angeles presentation, which is sponsored by Burberry, will be the only U.S. stop on the exhibition's international tour. Photographers to be represented include Cecil Beaton, Harry Benson, Julian Broad, Imogen Cunningham, Annie Leibovitz, Man Ray, Mary Ellen Mark, Steven Meisel, Helmut Newton, Herb Ritts, Edward Steichen, Mario Testino, and Bruce Weber. Curators: Terence Pepper, curator of photographs, National Portrait Gallery, and David Friend, editor of creative development, Vanity Fair. Curator at LACMA: Charlotte Cotton, photography. A collaboration between Vanity Fair and the National Portrait Gallery, London. Charmaine Pettit "Memory believes before knowing remembers. Believes longer than recollects, longer than knowing even wonders." P Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail > Date: Sun, 2 Nov 2008 19:16:52 -0800> To: new-poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu> Subject: Re: Re: Re: [New-Poetry] Poetic Justice> From: rewatlingjr@comcast.net> > On Sun, 02 Nov 2008 07:24:11 -0800, Judy Prince > wrote:> > > Me trying to beat back awe and envy for your experiences, Robert! > > Please [don't ask me how] tell me what it was like to be standing there > > looking at the Real Thing.> >> > Judy> > > Thanks Judy for the kind response to my first post to this list. The Kline > kind of leered at me from the end of the gallery. I couldn't avoid it, not > that I tried but was looking at each thing as I came to it and there it > hung at the end of the room. I'd turn a corner looking at different > things, moving in to look at brush strokes and details and moving back to > get the whole and kept seeing this big black thing in the corner of my eye > until I just had to stop and absorb it. I'm not an artist or educated much > in art. Some things just get into my head, like Monet's Water Lilies, the > version in the Cleveland Museum of Art as opposed to the one in Portland > that doesn't touch me at all. The Kline just did it for me and I can still > see it in feel it in my mind. Then to turn around and see the Lebovitz > photo, I just burst out laughing. And with all these words I still haven't > really said what happened to me that day. But I will say that in a day > that for me was not inspiring, the juxtoposition of those two works was > brilliant. Now I can't remember either without thinking of the other. > Thanks again...rob.> -- > "Cogito ergo...how does that go again?"...rewjr.> _______________________________________________> New-Poetry mailing list> New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081104/89af09c0/attachment.html From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Tue Nov 4 12:47:10 2008 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:21 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Concrete & fluid poetry In-Reply-To: <036101c93e32$540f8540$fc2e8fc0$@edu> References: <414078.85108.qm@web54108.mail.re2.yahoo.com><5B9323DD-FC8E-4A77-A3AB-CC45FFF707E7@ripon.edu><490FC682.6010604@nut-n- but.net> <036101c93e32$540f8540$fc2e8fc0$@edu> Message-ID: <49108A9E.6020409@nut-n-but.net> Bill Morgan wrote: > Bookfinder shows 30 copies for sale at prices ranging from 5.98 to 44.21. > > http://www.bookfinder.com/search/?ac=sl&st=sl&qi=dsS7ad2.6KsjXs8TpxuOtQomnG4 > _4860274605_1:2:24&bq=author%3Dmilton%2520klonsky%26title%3Dshake%2520the%25 > 20kaleidoscope > > cheers, > > Bill Morgan Thanks for the tip, Bill. I'll order a copy. --Bob G. From lsgrimes at stonegulch.com Tue Nov 4 12:48:51 2008 From: lsgrimes at stonegulch.com (lsg) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:21 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] for Hal & Co. References: <4b65c2d70811032309r6ad4174fu583f755b78ed48f7@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <3ECD5C2764C140E8B6584897CDE5E832@LindaSue> those of Hal's ilk... lsg ----- Original Message ----- From: Halvard Johnson To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 10:20 AM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] for Hal & Co. Hal is wondering who "& Co." is (or are). McCain / Palin -- Just say thanks but no thanks. They're a bridge to nowhere. Halvard Johnson ================ halvard@earthlink.net halvard@gmail.com http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html On Nov 4, 2008, at 1:09 AM, Anny Ballardini wrote: Received this morning in my mailbox: An idiot is an idiot Two idiots are two idiots One thousand idiots are a political party_ -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081104/2025d8fa/attachment.html From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Tue Nov 4 12:54:20 2008 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:21 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] for Hal & Co. In-Reply-To: <49D6C9F1-978E-496C-9836-39FDE80CB3CC@earthlink.net> References: <4b65c2d70811032309r6ad4174fu583f755b78ed48f7@mail.gmail.com> <49D6C9F1-978E-496C-9836-39FDE80CB3CC@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <49108C4C.5080409@nut-n-but.net> Halvard Johnson wrote: > And a million idiots? > > Hal >> >> An idiot is an idiot >> Two idiots are two idiots >> One thousand idiots are a political party_ >> I wondered what a NATIONAL political party is, since it's at least one order of magnitude more idiotic that a thousand-idiot political party . . . I think the average intelligence of the members of a political party is inversely proportionate to the number of members in the party. --Bob G. From halvard at earthlink.net Tue Nov 4 13:13:20 2008 From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:21 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] for Hal & Co. In-Reply-To: <3ECD5C2764C140E8B6584897CDE5E832@LindaSue> References: <4b65c2d70811032309r6ad4174fu583f755b78ed48f7@mail.gmail.com> <3ECD5C2764C140E8B6584897CDE5E832@LindaSue> Message-ID: Oh, THEM. I don't hang out with them anymore. They're much too elitist. Hal "I enjoyed talking to you. My mind needed a rest." --Henny Youngman Halvard Johnson ================ halvard@earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html On Nov 4, 2008, at 11:48 AM, lsg wrote: > those of Hal's ilk... > > lsg > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Halvard Johnson > To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views > Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 10:20 AM > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] for Hal & Co. > > Hal is wondering who "& Co." is (or are). > > > McCain / Palin -- Just say thanks but no thanks. > They're a bridge to nowhere. > > Halvard Johnson > ================ > halvard@earthlink.net > halvard@gmail.com > http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > http://www.hamiltonstone.org > http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html > > > > On Nov 4, 2008, at 1:09 AM, Anny Ballardini wrote: > >> Received this morning in my mailbox: >> >> An idiot is an idiot >> Two idiots are two idiots >> One thousand idiots are a political party_ >> >> >> >> -- >> Anny Ballardini >> http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ >> http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome >> http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html >> I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a >> dancing star! >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081104/aec62bef/attachment.html From ccooley at overdomain.com Tue Nov 4 15:18:49 2008 From: ccooley at overdomain.com (Crisman Cooley) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:22 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: New-Poetry Digest, Vol 53, Issue 9 In-Reply-To: References: <200811041700.mA4H04nK010312@wiz.cath.vt.edu> Message-ID: > Don't cry > Over > Split ilk. > > Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2008 12:13:20 -0600 >> From: Halvard Johnson >> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] for Hal & Co. >> >> Oh, THEM. I don't hang out with them anymore. >> They're much too elitist. >> >> Hal >> >> "I enjoyed talking to you. My mind >> needed a rest." >> --Henny Youngman >> >> Halvard Johnson >> ================ >> halvard@earthlink.net >> http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html >> http://entropyandme.blogspot.com >> http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com >> http://www.hamiltonstone.org >> http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html >> >> >> On Nov 4, 2008, at 11:48 AM, lsg wrote: >> >> > those of Hal's ilk... >> > >> > lsg >> > ----- Original Message ----- >> > From: Halvard Johnson >> > To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views >> > Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 10:20 AM >> > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] for Hal & Co. >> > >> > Hal is wondering who "& Co." is (or are). >> > >> > >> > McCain / Palin -- Just say thanks but no thanks. >> > They're a bridge to nowhere. >> > >> > Halvard Johnson >> > ================ >> > halvard@earthlink.net >> > halvard@gmail.com >> > http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html >> > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com >> > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com >> > http://www.hamiltonstone.org >> > http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html >> > >> > >> > >> > On Nov 4, 2008, at 1:09 AM, Anny Ballardini wrote: >> > >> >> Received this morning in my mailbox: >> >> >> >> An idiot is an idiot >> >> Two idiots are two idiots >> >> One thousand idiots are a political party_ >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> >> Anny Ballardini >> >> http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ >> >> http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome >> >> http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html >> >> I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a >> >> dancing star! >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> New-Poetry mailing list >> >> New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu >> >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> > >> > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > New-Poetry mailing list >> > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu >> > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> > _______________________________________________ >> > New-Poetry mailing list >> > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu >> > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> -------------- next part -------------- >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >> URL: >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081104/aec62bef/attachment-0001.html >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> >> End of New-Poetry Digest, Vol 53, Issue 9 >> ***************************************** >> > > > > -- > Crisman Cooley > Overdomain > the Energy Information company > www.overdomain.com > ccooley@overdomain.com > +1.805.426.5167 skype > +1.805.252.2421 mobile > -- Crisman Cooley Overdomain the Energy Information company www.overdomain.com ccooley@overdomain.com +1.805.426.5167 skype +1.805.252.2421 mobile -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081104/833438af/attachment.html From jbalizsprince at googlemail.com Tue Nov 4 16:22:23 2008 From: jbalizsprince at googlemail.com (Judy Prince) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:22 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetic Justice In-Reply-To: <867862.51221.qm@web54108.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <867862.51221.qm@web54108.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <7db1d01b0811041322x127836a7p58f224a16f29e2ef@mail.gmail.com> I can't seem to get through a paragraph of yours without plenty of giggles, John. Your original explanation of Mary Oliver's stanza----well, ok, no explanation was necessary for that stanza----was clear and reasonable, logical, true, whatever the words of agreement are here. And I didn't doze off a bit. Even after re-reading your comments; still giggled. Since I'm pretty new to this list, and found it for the first couple months extremely boring [sorry folks, just the way I reacted to things sent in], I'll be among the last of listmembers to tell you how we can meet your needs. I'll be happy to read any other poems, whether some you like [yours or others'], and tell you my candid opinion. I hate most poetry, so must fairly warn you of that. Since I've already sent in one poem I really like, you could comment on that. I won't get all upset and angry if you condemn it continuously and outrightly. Mainly, I just want to know what practicing poets think of current poems. A nother possibility for you is to join POETRYETC. It's a list of many very well read individual poets, some of whom regularly respond to poems posted. But be warned, John; on neither of these lists have I found more than a handful of folk who give their opinions on anything, on a regular basis. It shocks me, but that's maybe bcuz as a former teacher, I'm accustomed to getting plenty of responses to everything, like them or not. Also, it's characteristic of all groups that a very few give their opinions 'in public'; the vast majority, no less talented or informed or opinioned, just would rather not say things in front of the rest. So Bob Grumman has pragmatically suggested that you just go ahead and present poems you prefer or ask for poems you might prefer, so that the handful of folk who might respond will do so. I'd still like to read one of your poems. Best, Judy 2008/11/3 John Jeffrey > Oliver's stuff is probably great for postcards. I can picture a line or > two on top of a glossy photo of the woods or a close up of a flowering plant > or a bird. Yes, yes, she can write, put a smooth sentence together, > describe a scene, but she heavy bores me. I know that Bob said it was > unfair to comment on only the first stanza and that maybe I have to give the > poem time, but I did read the whole poem; I gave it the time. (Then I dozed > off for a bit.) I just think the opening is a good example of one of my > issues with contemporary poetry. (I just re-read it. Now I'm tired again.) > > About what I wanted to hear from this group, it's nothing more than > discussions about poetry and poets. The list is "New Poetry," so I figured > that new poetry would be discussed, perhaps in some depth. That's it. It's > impossible to read (or even to have heard of) all the poetry that's coming > out: joining this group was a way of expanding my circle. I know plenty of > poets (I write a newsletter that lists the readings in my state, which keeps > me in touch with the poetry reading crowd), but though many of them write poetry, > they don't seem to read too much of it. It's a strange phenomenon, rife > in poetry: People feel they can practice the art without studying it. So > those folks don't talk the talk. > > But I figured an email list of poets talking about poetry would talk about > poets and poetry. (Did you follow that?) And this seems a diverse crowd. > I hadn't heard of many of the poets in the group before joining the group, > which also is a good thing. I'd heard Tad Richards read and was an early > subscriber to Situations. And, even before joining the group, I had bought > and have smilingly (and sometimes in teeth-gnashed envy) read R.S. Gwynn's > book, No Word of Farewell. But none of the others, though I've now > visited some web sites or done some searching. It's a good group to > eavesdrop. The circle expands, stretched out in some bizarre ways, at > times, yes. But who needs a perfect circle anyway. > > JohnJ > > not > in Indiana > > > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Judy Prince > *To:* "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &, Views" < > new-poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu> > *Sent:* Saturday, November 1, 2008 11:59:18 PM > *Subject:* Re: [New-Poetry] Poetic Justice > > Of course, John, everything you've said, and I quite like how you said it, > too. > I'm a virgin reader of Mary Oliver, having read 4 lines of hers which I > liked, from I guess [sent to me by a friend on 2 different collaged > postcards] a couple different poems, as well as the lines of hers you've > pasted in below. > If I read more of her work, will I be shockedly impressed at its poetry? I > don't think so. But I'd like to read some of your poems. > > Now then, what is it that you've been wanting to hear from these doltish > fellows, Hal Johnson, Robin Hamilton, and the GrumMan and others on this > list? [just joined it m'sel' 4 months ago, so not quite sure what's going > on yet] > > OH dear, forgot I'd promised Bob I'd send him a poem I love and label > Breathtaking. > > I label the following poem Tongue-Tinsel and Brain-Reset, with a flying > approach to near-Breathtaking: > > Oct 24, 2008 12:16 AM > I love the purring of knowing them > by Peter Ciccariello > I love the purring of knowing them, > So I will be moving the useless telephone > Of my monstrous self to the ubiquitous ringtone > That has been disrupting everyone's sleep > When is a heaven such a useless tell? > The letters and burning envelopes > Resting so soft and full on the edge of your bedside table > Are the only existing explanations of our archeology. > Listening to the warm purring of the flames against the laid paper > Reminds one how unpredictably disaster follows reticulation > These all should arrive in your post next week, > the edges of the burning, the purring, and the love. > Asking you only to tell them that I am gone, lover, > That we found all the evidence lover, and went ahead > anyway, with full knowledge of our actions. > I scratched all this conveniently in the mahogany > On your side of the bed > > > ------------------------------- > > > 2008/10/30 John Jeffrey > >> Bob, >> >> I didn't mean to give the impression that I was attacking your kind of >> art, and I apologize if you felt that. I only disagree with the definition >> of creativity. I wouldn't have the snowballs to attack your fort because, >> to be honest, I don't understand New Poetry. I've tried. I've read it. >> I've read theory. But I get nothing. >> >> And not just the otherstreams, either. Even the major rivers leave me >> nodding off on the banks. A few weeks ago, the Writer's Almanac had one of >> those yawners that makes me weep at the state of poetry. The title was "The >> Poet Goes to Indiana" (by Mary Oliver) and the first stanza read: >> >> I'll tell you a half-dozen things >> that happened to me >> in Indiana >> when I went that far west to teach. >> You tell me if it was worth it. >> >> By the time I got to the third line I was thinking, What do I care? And >> look at that third line: "In Indiana." In Indiana? That's worthy of its >> own line? a principal unit? a piece of the pie? a lego block? a thought that >> adds to the whole? Bah! No beauty in the writing. No form to flatter. No >> images. No surprises. Nothing but chit-chatty broken out by grammatical >> clauses. Bah, I say again. >> >> And I'd dismiss is except that it's not atypical. >> >> I think we're in a poetic bear market. Those near-empty spaces that you >> see if you look at poetry timelines, like the post Milton dirth. We're in >> the dirth after a pretty good early 20th century. It's been trending >> downward since. (Though I'll admit my tastes are demode.) >> >> That's one of the reasons I joined this group: to read contemporary poets >> talking about contemporary poetry. I thought that maybe some understanding >> would leap from the emails into my eyes. But it's slow coming. >> >> John >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081104/06150ad1/attachment.html From cervantes.james at gmail.com Tue Nov 4 16:23:01 2008 From: cervantes.james at gmail.com (James Cervantes) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:22 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: New-Poetry Digest, Vol 53, Issue 9 In-Reply-To: References: <200811041700.mA4H04nK010312@wiz.cath.vt.edu> Message-ID: <648208b60811041323j5d2b76afu33858ed389ba3b92@mail.gmail.com> I think Anny meant "Hal & his ick." - Jim On Tue, Nov 4, 2008 at 1:18 PM, Crisman Cooley wrote: > >> Don't cry >> Over >> Split ilk. >> >>> Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2008 12:13:20 -0600 >>> From: Halvard Johnson >>> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] for Hal & Co. >>> >>> Oh, THEM. I don't hang out with them anymore. >>> They're much too elitist. >>> >>> Hal >>> >>> "I enjoyed talking to you. My mind >>> needed a rest." >>> --Henny Youngman >>> >>> Halvard Johnson >>> ================ >>> halvard@earthlink.net >>> http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html >>> http://entropyandme.blogspot.com >>> http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com >>> http://www.hamiltonstone.org >>> http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html >>> >>> >>> On Nov 4, 2008, at 11:48 AM, lsg wrote: >>> >>> > those of Hal's ilk... >>> > >>> > lsg >>> > ----- Original Message ----- >>> > From: Halvard Johnson >>> > To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views >>> > Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 10:20 AM >>> > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] for Hal & Co. >>> > >>> > Hal is wondering who "& Co." is (or are). >>> > >>> > >>> > McCain / Palin -- Just say thanks but no thanks. >>> > They're a bridge to nowhere. >>> > >>> > Halvard Johnson >>> > ================ >>> > halvard@earthlink.net >>> > halvard@gmail.com >>> > http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html >>> > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com >>> > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com >>> > http://www.hamiltonstone.org >>> > http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > On Nov 4, 2008, at 1:09 AM, Anny Ballardini wrote: >>> > >>> >> Received this morning in my mailbox: >>> >> >>> >> An idiot is an idiot >>> >> Two idiots are two idiots >>> >> One thousand idiots are a political party_ >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> -- >>> >> Anny Ballardini >>> >> http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ >>> >> http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome >>> >> http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html >>> >> I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a >>> >> dancing star! >>> >> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >>> >> New-Poetry mailing list >>> >> New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu >>> >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> > New-Poetry mailing list >>> > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu >>> > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> > New-Poetry mailing list >>> > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu >>> > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>> >>> -------------- next part -------------- >>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >>> URL: >>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081104/aec62bef/attachment-0001.html >>> >>> ------------------------------ >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> New-Poetry mailing list >>> New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu >>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>> >>> >>> End of New-Poetry Digest, Vol 53, Issue 9 >>> ***************************************** >> >> >> >> -- >> Crisman Cooley >> Overdomain >> the Energy Information company >> www.overdomain.com >> ccooley@overdomain.com >> +1.805.426.5167 skype >> +1.805.252.2421 mobile > > > > -- > Crisman Cooley > Overdomain > the Energy Information company > www.overdomain.com > ccooley@overdomain.com > +1.805.426.5167 skype > +1.805.252.2421 mobile > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- "Whatever gets you through the night, babe." - Frank Sinatra ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning http://www.fieralingue.it/documenti/mr_bondo.pdf http://www.poetserv.org/jvc/home/index.html http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamescervantes/ From rewatlingjr at comcast.net Tue Nov 4 16:41:50 2008 From: rewatlingjr at comcast.net (robert e. watling jr.) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:22 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: New-Poetry Digest, Vol 53, Issue 9 In-Reply-To: <648208b60811041323j5d2b76afu33858ed389ba3b92@mail.gmail.com> References: <200811041700.mA4H04nK010312@wiz.cath.vt.edu> <648208b60811041323j5d2b76afu33858ed389ba3b92@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 04 Nov 2008 13:23:01 -0800, James Cervantes wrote: > I think Anny meant "Hal & his ick." Hal's got the ick? -- "Cogito ergo...how does that go again?"...rewjr. From lsgrimes at stonegulch.com Tue Nov 4 16:56:45 2008 From: lsgrimes at stonegulch.com (lsg) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:22 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] for Hal & Co. References: <4b65c2d70811032309r6ad4174fu583f755b78ed48f7@mail.gmail.com><3ECD5C2764C140E8B6584897CDE5E832@LindaSue> Message-ID: <7E7EF4F7B7A045F1AB9A411A685F9FE7@LindaSue> I hear ya... lsg ----- Original Message ----- From: Halvard Johnson To: NewPoetry: & Views Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 12:13 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] for Hal & Co. Oh, THEM. I don't hang out with them anymore. They're much too elitist. Hal "I enjoyed talking to you. My mind needed a rest." --Henny Youngman Halvard Johnson ================ halvard@earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html On Nov 4, 2008, at 11:48 AM, lsg wrote: those of Hal's ilk... lsg ----- Original Message ----- From: Halvard Johnson To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 10:20 AM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] for Hal & Co. Hal is wondering who "& Co." is (or are). McCain / Palin -- Just say thanks but no thanks. They're a bridge to nowhere. Halvard Johnson ================ halvard@earthlink.net halvard@gmail.com http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html On Nov 4, 2008, at 1:09 AM, Anny Ballardini wrote: Received this morning in my mailbox: An idiot is an idiot Two idiots are two idiots One thousand idiots are a political party_ -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081104/db90c4a9/attachment.html From halvard at earthlink.net Tue Nov 4 18:59:02 2008 From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:22 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: New-Poetry Digest, Vol 53, Issue 9 In-Reply-To: References: <200811041700.mA4H04nK010312@wiz.cath.vt.edu> <648208b60811041323j5d2b76afu33858ed389ba3b92@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Actually, I've got AN ick. Want to join it? Hal "bondo nuck your lingol thrip" --John M. Bennett Halvard Johnson ================ halvard@earthlink.net halvard@gmail.com http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html On Nov 4, 2008, at 3:41 PM, robert e. watling jr. wrote: > On Tue, 04 Nov 2008 13:23:01 -0800, James Cervantes > wrote: > >> I think Anny meant "Hal & his ick." > > Hal's got the ick? > > -- > "Cogito ergo...how does that go again?"...rewjr. > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From rewatlingjr at comcast.net Tue Nov 4 19:03:13 2008 From: rewatlingjr at comcast.net (robert e. watling jr.) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:22 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: New-Poetry Digest, Vol 53, Issue 9 In-Reply-To: References: <200811041700.mA4H04nK010312@wiz.cath.vt.edu> <648208b60811041323j5d2b76afu33858ed389ba3b92@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 04 Nov 2008 15:59:02 -0800, Halvard Johnson wrote: > Actually, I've got AN ick. Want to join it? > Hal Is there a secret ick password or handshake? rob -- "Cogito ergo...how does that go again?"...rewjr. From halvard at earthlink.net Tue Nov 4 22:04:48 2008 From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:22 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: New-Poetry Digest, Vol 53, Issue 9 In-Reply-To: References: <200811041700.mA4H04nK010312@wiz.cath.vt.edu> <648208b60811041323j5d2b76afu33858ed389ba3b92@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <081BB8BF-B971-4FF6-8328-A4C499C8503C@earthlink.net> If I told you, they wouldn't be secret, would they? Hal "The highest responsibility of the artist is to hide beauty." --R. H. Blythe Halvard Johnson ================ halvard@earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html On Nov 4, 2008, at 6:03 PM, robert e. watling jr. wrote: > On Tue, 04 Nov 2008 15:59:02 -0800, Halvard Johnson > wrote: > >> Actually, I've got AN ick. Want to join it? >> Hal > > Is there a secret ick password or handshake? > > rob > > -- > "Cogito ergo...how does that go again?"...rewjr. > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From jjeffreymail at yahoo.com Tue Nov 4 22:36:00 2008 From: jjeffreymail at yahoo.com (John Jeffrey) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:22 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Poetic Justice Message-ID: <1249.79872.qm@web54101.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Hmmm. Did I say something wrong, Bob? You sound a bit riled. All I did was answer Judy's questions. I would assume that everyone on the list joined to discuss poetry, or at least to read what other people had to say about poetry. (As Judy said, only a small percent actually write in to lists. Most are just poetry voyeurs, hoping to catch a couplet coupling heroically.) But that's all I said. I wasn't saying that the list doesn't talk poetry, or that I've tried to and no one's responded. And now I feel like the poster child for the dissatisfied. But I'm not dissatisfied... well, not too dissatisfied (the list does stray quite a bit). And I'll let loose my opinions on things when I feel it's a time for loosing. Also, at times I'll have something to say about a post and then when I finally have a chance to tickle-tap the keys (maybe a day or so later) there have been an additional 150 other posts since and the group has moved on. So I just stomp about the house barking out to the universe what I was going to say. My poor wife. Enough of that. Judy, here's a wee one of my poems, as you so unwittingly requested: Reality TV I sat for hours, bored and soured, watching bad TV. Then realized the set was off and just reflecting me. JohnJ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081104/7d950651/attachment.html From rewatlingjr at comcast.net Tue Nov 4 23:55:31 2008 From: rewatlingjr at comcast.net (robert e. watling jr.) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:22 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: New-Poetry Digest, Vol 53, Issue 9 In-Reply-To: <081BB8BF-B971-4FF6-8328-A4C499C8503C@earthlink.net> References: <200811041700.mA4H04nK010312@wiz.cath.vt.edu> <648208b60811041323j5d2b76afu33858ed389ba3b92@mail.gmail.com> <081BB8BF-B971-4FF6-8328-A4C499C8503C@earthlink.net> Message-ID: On Tue, 04 Nov 2008 19:04:48 -0800, Halvard Johnson wrote: > If I told you, they wouldn't be secret, would they? > Hal If you don't tell me I can't join can I? Hmmm? rewjr -- "Cogito ergo...how does that go again?"...rewjr. From rog3r.day at gmail.com Wed Nov 5 02:28:51 2008 From: rog3r.day at gmail.com (Roger Day) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:22 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetic Justice In-Reply-To: <19982205FA1943C1B54D0292D9BDFF39@LindaSue> References: <490378FD.4040108@opus40.org> <9D2B7D2E-397C-452C-9151-9F2DFCC2D2BF@earthlink.net> <4903A750.4060707@opus40.org> <19982205FA1943C1B54D0292D9BDFF39@LindaSue> Message-ID: I've just discovered this is a re-worked piece of internet copypasta. Tut, tut, tut. However, I'll forgive, as Obama is now POTUS!! Congratulaitons! Roger On Sun, Oct 26, 2008 at 11:52 AM, Linda Sue Grimes wrote: > Yesterday on my way to lunch at Doe's, I passed one of the homeless guys in > that area, with a sign that read "Vote Obama, I need the money." > > > > Once inside Doe's my waiter had on a "Obama 08" tee shirt. > > When the bill came, I decided not to tip the waiter and explained to him > while he had given me exceptional service, that his tee shirt made me feel > he obviously believes in Senator Obama's plan to redistribute the wealth. I > told him I was going to redistribute his tip to someone that I deemed more > in need--the homeless guy outside. > > He stood there in disbelief and angrily stormed away. > > I went outside, gave the homeless guy $3 and told him to thank the waiter > inside, as I had decided he could use the money more. The homeless guy > looked at me in disbelief but seemed grateful. > > As I got in my truck, I realized this rather unscientific redistribution > experiment had left the homeless guy quite happy for the money he did not > earn, but the waiter was pretty angry that I gave away the money he did > earn. > > Well, I guess this redistribution of wealth is going to take a while to > catch on with those doing the work.... > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- My Stuff: http://www.badstep.net/ "I began to warm and chill to objects and their fields" Nick Cave & The Bad Seeds From halvard at earthlink.net Wed Nov 5 10:23:20 2008 From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:22 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetic Justice In-Reply-To: References: <490378FD.4040108@opus40.org> <9D2B7D2E-397C-452C-9151-9F2DFCC2D2BF@earthlink.net> <4903A750.4060707@opus40.org> <19982205FA1943C1B54D0292D9BDFF39@LindaSue> Message-ID: <7DBE92E8-ECAC-4BD4-9499-87CCED87E00F@earthlink.net> Obama, sad to say, doesn't become POTUS until Jan. 24 (?), 2009. Hal "One would have to have a heart of stone not to laugh at the death of Little Nell." --Oscar Wilde Halvard Johnson ================ halvard@earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html On Nov 5, 2008, at 1:28 AM, Roger Day wrote: > I've just discovered this is a re-worked piece of internet copypasta. > Tut, tut, tut. > > However, I'll forgive, as Obama is now POTUS!! Congratulaitons! > > Roger > > On Sun, Oct 26, 2008 at 11:52 AM, Linda Sue Grimes > wrote: >> Yesterday on my way to lunch at Doe's, I passed one of the >> homeless guys in >> that area, with a sign that read "Vote Obama, I need the money." >> >> >> >> Once inside Doe's my waiter had on a "Obama 08" tee shirt. >> >> When the bill came, I decided not to tip the waiter and explained >> to him >> while he had given me exceptional service, that his tee shirt made >> me feel >> he obviously believes in Senator Obama's plan to redistribute the >> wealth. I >> told him I was going to redistribute his tip to someone that I >> deemed more >> in need--the homeless guy outside. >> >> He stood there in disbelief and angrily stormed away. >> >> I went outside, gave the homeless guy $3 and told him to thank the >> waiter >> inside, as I had decided he could use the money more. The homeless >> guy >> looked at me in disbelief but seemed grateful. >> >> As I got in my truck, I realized this rather unscientific >> redistribution >> experiment had left the homeless guy quite happy for the money he >> did not >> earn, but the waiter was pretty angry that I gave away the money he >> did >> earn. >> >> Well, I guess this redistribution of wealth is going to take a >> while to >> catch on with those doing the work.... >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > > > > -- > My Stuff: http://www.badstep.net/ > "I began to warm and chill > to objects and their fields" > Nick Cave & The Bad Seeds > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From grahamd at ripon.edu Wed Nov 5 12:18:50 2008 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:23 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Morning after Message-ID: Oceans ? ???????????? I have a feeling that my boat has struck, down there in the depths, against a great thing. ??????????? ??????????? ??????????? And nothing happens!? Nothing. . .? Silence. . .? Waves. . . ? --Nothing happens?? Or has everything happened, and are we standing now, quietly, in the new life? --Juan Ram?n Jim?nez, trans. Robert Bly. ?Lorca &?Jim?nez:? Selected Poems. Beacon Press, 1973. -- ==================================================== David Graham grahamd@ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/ Poetry Library: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ==================================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081105/7426f947/attachment.html From rewatlingjr at comcast.net Wed Nov 5 12:23:53 2008 From: rewatlingjr at comcast.net (robert e. watling jr.) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:23 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Morning after In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, 05 Nov 2008 09:18:50 -0800, David Graham wrote: > --Nothing happens? Or has everything happened, > and are we standing now, quietly, in the new life? > > > --Juan Ram?n Jim?nez, trans. Robert Bly. Lorca & Jim?nez: Selected > Poems. Beacon Press, 1973. Wow! Thanks. Robert -- "Cogito ergo...how does that go again?"...rewjr. From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Wed Nov 5 13:19:15 2008 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:23 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Morning after In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4b65c2d70811051019k2956d434obc4962bdbee58d38@mail.gmail.com> I agree, an excellent twist. On Wed, Nov 5, 2008 at 6:23 PM, robert e. watling jr. < rewatlingjr@comcast.net> wrote: > On Wed, 05 Nov 2008 09:18:50 -0800, David Graham > wrote: > > --Nothing happens? Or has everything happened, >> and are we standing now, quietly, in the new life? >> >> >> --Juan Ram?n Jim?nez, trans. Robert Bly. Lorca & Jim?nez: Selected >> Poems. Beacon Press, 1973. >> > > Wow! Thanks. > > Robert > > -- > "Cogito ergo...how does that go again?"...rewjr. > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081105/84e3544c/attachment.html From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Wed Nov 5 13:23:41 2008 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:23 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Call for Submissions: Poetic Responses to the 2008 American Elections In-Reply-To: <428270.52745.qm@web54410.mail.yahoo.com> References: <428270.52745.qm@web54410.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4b65c2d70811051023x4ac30c29k2962f21cf262df81@mail.gmail.com> * * *While the He/art Pants:* *Poetic Responses to the 2008 American Elections* * * *Call for Submissions* *Artistic representations, responses, and interrogations of electoral events are very important expressions of the endless conversation between art and historical experience. The 2008 American elections stimulated a lot of artistic responses and there were, in the campaign discourses, some subtle invocations of the postures of presidential aspirants to literature and cultural productions generally. What, as a poet (defined broadly), is the meaning of this whole experience of the 2008 elections? Send us your previously unpublished works (poems, paintings, manipulated photographs, etc) about the 2008 US elections for inclusion in an online anthology:While the He/Art Pants (a title derived from Walt Whitman's poem reproduced below), to soon appear on the Poet's Corner, Fiera Lingue. Images should be on Jpeg format. As this promises to be a very interesting project, we request that you send up to five of the most uncompromising and stylistically surprising of your works and a short bio. Other works that do not necessarily focus on the 2008 US elections but are relevant to the dialogue between art and democratic politics will be considered. * *Submissions are to be made electronically to: Obododimma Oha (Guest Editor) obodooha@gmail.com , udude@full-moon.com * * * *OR * * * *Anny Ballardini (Editor, The Poet's Corner)* *anny.ballardini@gmail.com* *Link to the main index of the site:* *http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=Content* * * *------------------------------- * * * *Election Day, November 1884* *from Leaves of Grass by Walt Whitman (1892)* If I should need to name, O Western World, your powerfulest scene and show, 'Twould not be you, Niagara?nor you, ye limitless prairies?nor your huge rifts of canyons, Colorado, Nor you, Yosemite?nor Yellowstone, with all its spasmic geyserloops ascending to the skies, appearing and disappearing, Nor Oregon's white cones?nor Huron's belt of mighty lakes?nor Mississippi's stream: ?This seething hemisphere's humanity, as now, I'd name?the still small voice vibrating?America's choosing day, (The heart of it not in the chosen?the act itself the main, the quadrennial choosing,) The stretch of North and South arous'd-sea-board and inland-Texas to Maine?the Prairie States?Vermont, Virginia, California, The final ballot-shower from East to West?the paradox and conflict, The countless snow-flakes falling?(a swordless conflict, Yet more than all Rome's wars of old, or modern Napoleon's:) the peaceful choice of all, Or good or ill humanity?welcoming the darker odds, the dross: ?Foams and ferments the wine? it serves to purify?while the heart pants, life glows: These stormy gusts and winds waft precious ships, Swell'd Washington's, Jefferson's, Lincoln's sails. -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081105/f902144b/attachment.html From rog3r.day at gmail.com Wed Nov 5 14:15:42 2008 From: rog3r.day at gmail.com (Roger Day) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:23 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetic Justice In-Reply-To: <7DBE92E8-ECAC-4BD4-9499-87CCED87E00F@earthlink.net> References: <490378FD.4040108@opus40.org> <9D2B7D2E-397C-452C-9151-9F2DFCC2D2BF@earthlink.net> <4903A750.4060707@opus40.org> <19982205FA1943C1B54D0292D9BDFF39@LindaSue> <7DBE92E8-ECAC-4BD4-9499-87CCED87E00F@earthlink.net> Message-ID: POTUSE? On Wed, Nov 5, 2008 at 3:23 PM, Halvard Johnson wrote: > Obama, sad to say, doesn't become POTUS until > Jan. 24 (?), 2009. > > Hal > > "One would have to have a heart of stone not > to laugh at the death of Little Nell." > --Oscar Wilde > > Halvard Johnson > ================ > halvard@earthlink.net > http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > http://www.hamiltonstone.org > http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html > > > On Nov 5, 2008, at 1:28 AM, Roger Day wrote: > >> I've just discovered this is a re-worked piece of internet copypasta. >> Tut, tut, tut. >> >> However, I'll forgive, as Obama is now POTUS!! Congratulaitons! >> >> Roger >> >> On Sun, Oct 26, 2008 at 11:52 AM, Linda Sue Grimes >> wrote: >>> >>> Yesterday on my way to lunch at Doe's, I passed one of the homeless guys >>> in >>> that area, with a sign that read "Vote Obama, I need the money." >>> >>> >>> >>> Once inside Doe's my waiter had on a "Obama 08" tee shirt. >>> >>> When the bill came, I decided not to tip the waiter and explained to him >>> while he had given me exceptional service, that his tee shirt made me >>> feel >>> he obviously believes in Senator Obama's plan to redistribute the wealth. >>> I >>> told him I was going to redistribute his tip to someone that I deemed >>> more >>> in need--the homeless guy outside. >>> >>> He stood there in disbelief and angrily stormed away. >>> >>> I went outside, gave the homeless guy $3 and told him to thank the waiter >>> inside, as I had decided he could use the money more. The homeless guy >>> looked at me in disbelief but seemed grateful. >>> >>> As I got in my truck, I realized this rather unscientific redistribution >>> experiment had left the homeless guy quite happy for the money he did not >>> earn, but the waiter was pretty angry that I gave away the money he did >>> earn. >>> >>> Well, I guess this redistribution of wealth is going to take a while to >>> catch on with those doing the work.... >>> _______________________________________________ >>> New-Poetry mailing list >>> New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu >>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>> >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> My Stuff: http://www.badstep.net/ >> "I began to warm and chill >> to objects and their fields" >> Nick Cave & The Bad Seeds >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- My Stuff: http://www.badstep.net/ "I began to warm and chill to objects and their fields" Nick Cave & The Bad Seeds From millb at aol.com Wed Nov 5 14:18:36 2008 From: millb at aol.com (Millicent Accardi) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:23 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetic Justice In-Reply-To: References: <490378FD.4040108@opus40.org><9D2B7D2E-397C-452C-9151-9F2DFCC2D2BF@earthlink.net><4903A750.4060707@opus40.org><19982205FA1943C1B54D0292D9BDFF39@LindaSue><7DBE92E8-ECAC-4BD4-9499-87CCED87E00F@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <8CB0D926E64B512-DC0-71@webmail-dd08.sysops.aol.com> President of the US Cheers, Mill -----Original Message----- From: Roger Day Sent: Wed, 5 Nov 2008 11:15 am Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Poetic Justice POTUSE? On Wed, Nov 5, 2008 at 3:23 PM, Halvard Johnson wrote: > Obama, sad to say, doesn't become POTUS until > Jan. 24 (?), 2009. > > Hal > > "One would have to have a heart of stone not > to laugh at the death of Little Nell." > --Oscar Wilde > > Halvard Johnson > ================ > halvard@earthlink.net > http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > http://www.hamiltonstone.org > http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html > > > On Nov 5, 2008, at 1:28 AM, Roger Day wrote: > >> I've just discovered this is a re-worked piece of internet copypasta. >> Tut, tut, tut. >> >> However, I'll forgive, as Obama is now POTUS!! Congratulaitons! >> >> Roger >> >> On Sun, Oct 26, 2008 at 11:52 AM, Linda Sue Grimes >> wrote: >>> >>> Yesterday on my way to lunch at Doe's, I passed one of the homeless guys >>> in >>> that area, with a sign that read "Vote Obama, I need the money." >>> >>> >>> >>> Once inside Doe's my waiter had on a "Obama 08" tee shirt. >>> >>> When the bill came, I decided not to tip the waiter and explained to him >>> while he had given me exceptional service, that his tee shirt made me >>> feel >>> he obviously believes in Senator Obama's plan to redistribute the wealth. >>> I >>> told him I was going to redistribute his tip to someone that I deemed >>> more >>> in need--the homeless guy outside. >>> >>> He stood there in disbelief and angrily stormed away. >>> >>> I went outside, gave the homeless guy $3 and told him to thank the waiter >>> inside, as I had decided he could use the money more. The homeless guy >>> looked at me in disbelief but seemed grateful. >>> >>> As I got in my truck, I realized this rather unscientific redistribution >>> experiment had left the homeless guy quite happy for the money he did not >>> earn, but the waiter was pretty angry that I gave away the money he did >>> earn. >>> >>> Well, I guess this redistribution of wealth is going to take a while to >>> catch on with those doing the work.... >>> _______________________________________________ >>> New-Poetry mailing list >>> New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu >>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>> >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> My Stuff: http://www.badstep.net/ >> "I began to warm and chill >> to objects and their fields" >> Nick Cave & The Bad Seeds >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- My Stuff: http://www.badstep.net/ "I began to warm and chill to objects and their fields" Nick Cave & The Bad Seeds _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081105/d94ce72c/attachment.html From jforjames at aol.com Wed Nov 5 14:23:13 2008 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames@aol.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:23 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] What's wrong with cornflower blue pantaloons? Message-ID: <8CB0D9314C981B8-CA8-150E@webmail-md02.sysops.aol.com> http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/booksblog/2008/nov/05/chatterton-poetry-romantic Poetry needs to move out of the garret for good The myth of the poet as swooning sap is outdated and pernicious -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081105/e93942fa/attachment.html From jforjames at aol.com Wed Nov 5 14:25:35 2008 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames@aol.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:23 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Ohio picks Heyen Message-ID: <8CB0D93699FC003-CA8-153B@webmail-md02.sysops.aol.com> http://www.democratandchronicle.com/article/20081105/NEWS01/811050323/1002/NEWS William Heyen of Brockport has been named Ohio Poet of the Year by the Ohio Poetry Day Association. Heyen, professor emeritus of English at State University of College at Brockport, where he was a professor of English and poet-in-residence before retiring in 2001, was eligible for the honor because he earned his master's degree and doctorate at Ohio University before returning to teach at Brockport, where he received his undergraduate degree. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081105/32b5770b/attachment.html From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Wed Nov 5 14:34:32 2008 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:23 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] What's wrong with cornflower blue pantaloons? In-Reply-To: <8CB0D9314C981B8-CA8-150E@webmail-md02.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CB0D9314C981B8-CA8-150E@webmail-md02.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <4b65c2d70811051134s63cef078pfce2690a2f48ada7@mail.gmail.com> What she writes is just right, that painting is anyhow unforgettable. On Wed, Nov 5, 2008 at 8:23 PM, wrote: > > http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/booksblog/2008/nov/05/chatterton-poetry-romantic > > Poetry needs to move out of the garret for good > > The myth of the poet as swooning sap is outdated and pernicious > ------------------------------ > Instant access to the latest & most popular FREE games while you browse > with the Games Toolbar - Download Now! > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081105/b51bd604/attachment.html From rog3r.day at gmail.com Wed Nov 5 14:37:05 2008 From: rog3r.day at gmail.com (Roger Day) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:23 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] What's wrong with cornflower blue pantaloons? In-Reply-To: <8CB0D9314C981B8-CA8-150E@webmail-md02.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CB0D9314C981B8-CA8-150E@webmail-md02.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: A strawman for a slow day when the attention is elsewhere? Roger On Wed, Nov 5, 2008 at 7:23 PM, wrote: > http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/booksblog/2008/nov/05/chatterton-poetry-romantic > > Poetry needs to move out of the garret for good > > The myth of the poet as swooning sap is outdated and pernicious > ________________________________ > Instant access to the latest & most popular FREE games while you browse with > the Games Toolbar - Download Now! > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- My Stuff: http://www.badstep.net/ "I began to warm and chill to objects and their fields" Nick Cave & The Bad Seeds From rewatlingjr at comcast.net Wed Nov 5 14:41:32 2008 From: rewatlingjr at comcast.net (robert e. watling jr.) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:23 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] What's wrong with cornflower blue pantaloons? In-Reply-To: <8CB0D9314C981B8-CA8-150E@webmail-md02.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CB0D9314C981B8-CA8-150E@webmail-md02.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 05 Nov 2008 11:23:13 -0800, wrote: > Poetry needs to move out of the garret for good > > The myth of the poet as swooning sap is outdated and pernicious Hey, I'm wearing cornflower blue pantaloons right now! How'dya know?...rewjr -- "Cogito ergo...how does that go again?"...rewjr. From rog3r.day at gmail.com Wed Nov 5 15:45:30 2008 From: rog3r.day at gmail.com (Roger Day) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:23 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] What's wrong with cornflower blue pantaloons? In-Reply-To: References: <8CB0D9314C981B8-CA8-150E@webmail-md02.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: That shade of cornflower blue? sooooo pass? On Wed, Nov 5, 2008 at 7:41 PM, robert e. watling jr. wrote: > On Wed, 05 Nov 2008 11:23:13 -0800, wrote: > >> Poetry needs to move out of the garret for good >> >> The myth of the poet as swooning sap is outdated and pernicious > > Hey, I'm wearing cornflower blue pantaloons right now! > How'dya know?...rewjr > > -- > "Cogito ergo...how does that go again?"...rewjr. > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- My Stuff: http://www.badstep.net/ "I began to warm and chill to objects and their fields" Nick Cave & The Bad Seeds From rewatlingjr at comcast.net Wed Nov 5 15:49:03 2008 From: rewatlingjr at comcast.net (robert e. watling jr.) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:23 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] What's wrong with cornflower blue pantaloons? In-Reply-To: References: <8CB0D9314C981B8-CA8-150E@webmail-md02.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 05 Nov 2008 12:45:30 -0800, Roger Day wrote: > That shade of cornflower blue? sooooo pass? They look great though when you're languishing across the bed in your ruffled silk shirt trying to get some rich patroness to take pity on you. The curly red hair doesn't hurt either but you have to be just the right shade of pale and just gaunt enough...r. -- "Cogito ergo...how does that go again?"...rewjr. From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Wed Nov 5 17:44:12 2008 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:23 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetic Justice In-Reply-To: <7DBE92E8-ECAC-4BD4-9499-87CCED87E00F@earthlink.net> References: <490378FD.4040108@opus40.org><9D2B7D2E-397C-452C-9151-9F2DFCC2D2BF@earthlink.net><4903A750.4060707@opus40.org><19982205FA1943C 1B54D0292D9BDFF39@LindaSue> <7DBE92E8-ECAC-4BD4-9499-87CCED87E00F@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <491221BC.4020803@nut-n-but.net> Halvard Johnson wrote: > Obama, sad to say, doesn't become POTUS until > Jan. 24 (?), 2009. > > Hal > Oh, please, Hal: surely you don't think Bush will be able to defeat the terrorists in Iraq by then?! And I doubt that Obama could shower incompetents with money any faster than Bush already is. --Bob G. From david.weinstock at gmail.com Wed Nov 5 17:52:18 2008 From: david.weinstock at gmail.com (David Weinstock) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:23 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetic Justice In-Reply-To: <491221BC.4020803@nut-n-but.net> References: <490378FD.4040108@opus40.org> <9D2B7D2E-397C-452C-9151-9F2DFCC2D2BF@earthlink.net> <4903A750.4060707@opus40.org> <7DBE92E8-ECAC-4BD4-9499-87CCED87E00F@earthlink.net> <491221BC.4020803@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <437b1e3a0811051452mf0b3fd6x65904cf44a820eb2@mail.gmail.com> It's usually Jan. 20th. On Wed, Nov 5, 2008 at 5:44 PM, Bob Grumman wrote: > Halvard Johnson wrote: > >> Obama, sad to say, doesn't become POTUS until >> Jan. 24 (?), 2009. >> >> Hal >> >> Oh, please, Hal: surely you don't think Bush will be able to defeat the > terrorists in Iraq by then?! And I doubt that Obama could shower > incompetents with money any faster than Bush already is. > > --Bob G. > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- .......................................................... DAVID WEINSTOCK 240 Woodland Park, Middlebury, VT 05753 Home: 802-388-6939 Cell: 802-989-4314 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081105/90f4303d/attachment.html From jforjames at aol.com Wed Nov 5 18:32:51 2008 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames@aol.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:24 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Best o' the blogs Message-ID: <8CB0DB5F457761A-1180-2699@WEBMAIL-DY06.sysops.aol.com> http://isola-di-rifiuti.blogspot.com/ Latta puts Dean Young thru his critical wringer: See Nov. 3rd post. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081105/22580adf/attachment.html From halvard at earthlink.net Wed Nov 5 19:18:19 2008 From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:24 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetic Justice In-Reply-To: <437b1e3a0811051452mf0b3fd6x65904cf44a820eb2@mail.gmail.com> References: <490378FD.4040108@opus40.org> <9D2B7D2E-397C-452C-9151-9F2DFCC2D2BF@earthlink.net> <4903A750.4060707@opus40.org> <7DBE92E8-ECAC-4BD4-9499-87CCED87E00F@earthlink.net> <491221BC.4020803@nut-n-but.net> <437b1e3a0811051452mf0b3fd6x65904cf44a820eb2@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <27F39D92-BA46-447B-B85D-3E3789D1EBF4@earthlink.net> Even better, by four days. Hal "Artists are the engineers of the soul." --Iosif Dzhugashvili Halvard Johnson ================ halvard@earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html On Nov 5, 2008, at 4:52 PM, David Weinstock wrote: > It's usually Jan. 20th. > > > > On Wed, Nov 5, 2008 at 5:44 PM, Bob Grumman but.net> wrote: > Halvard Johnson wrote: > Obama, sad to say, doesn't become POTUS until > Jan. 24 (?), 2009. > > Hal > > Oh, please, Hal: surely you don't think Bush will be able to defeat > the terrorists in Iraq by then?! And I doubt that Obama could > shower incompetents with money any faster than Bush already is. > > --Bob G. > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > -- > .......................................................... > > DAVID WEINSTOCK > 240 Woodland Park, Middlebury, VT 05753 > > Home: 802-388-6939 > Cell: 802-989-4314 > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081105/24f0ec98/attachment.html From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Thu Nov 6 06:57:01 2008 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:24 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Poetic Justice In-Reply-To: <1249.79872.qm@web54101.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <1249.79872.qm@web54101.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4912DB8D.1040009@nut-n-but.net> John Jeffrey wrote: > Hmmm. Did I say something wrong, Bob? You sound a bit riled. I was slightly irritated, John. I don't have what I said nor what you said that I was replying to, so I'm not sure why, but think I felt you were complaining about others not discussing poetry while not discussing it very much yourself. All you said about the Oliver poem was that it was boring, then later agreeing maybe you were wrong to judge it on its first lines only but that you still didn't think much of the poem. A discussion, for me, would be more specific about the flaws and virtues of a poem. Also, I take you for someone on the other side of poetry fence from me, so tend to be a little riled against whatever you say. > Judy, here's a wee one of my poems, as you so unwittingly requested: > > Reality TV > > I sat for hours, bored and soured, > watching bad TV. > Then realized the set was off > and just reflecting me. Nice piece of light verse, and I'm not one who looks down on light verse. On the other hand, what does it have going for it besides a wittilly self-demoting observation, with efficient but entirely standard meter and rhyme? And a nice slightly-off word ("soured") to freshen the diction. --Bob G. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081106/c16ea3f3/attachment.html From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Thu Nov 6 14:28:48 2008 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:24 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Kooser's Pick Message-ID: <4b65c2d70811061128r68fc7f3va8895f3f9fff78c7@mail.gmail.com> Welcome to American Life in Poetry. For information on permissions and usage, or to download a PDF version of the column, visit www.americanlifeinpoetry.org. ****************************** American Life in Poetry: Column 189 BY TED KOOSER, U.S. POET LAUREATE, 2004-2006 In celebration of Veteran's Day, here is a telling poem by Gary Dop, a Minnesota poet. The veterans of World War II, now old, are dying by the thousands. Here's one still with us, standing at Normandy, remembering. On Swearing In Normandy, at Point Du Hoc, where some Rangers died, Dad pointed to an old man 20 feet closer to the edge than us, asking if I could see the medal the man held like a rosary. As we approached the cliff the man's swearing, each bulleted syllable, sifted back toward us in the ocean wind. I turned away, but my shoulder was held still by my father's hand, and I looked up at him as he looked at the man. American Life in Poetry is made possible by The Poetry Foundation (www.poetryfoundation.org), publisher of Poetry magazine. It is also supported by the Department of English at the University of Nebraska-Lincoln. Poem copyright (c) 2007 by Gary Dop. Reprinted from "Whistling Shade," Summer, 2007, by permission of Gary Dop. Introduction copyright (c) 2008 by The Poetry Foundation. The introduction's author, Ted Kooser, served as United States Poet Laureate Consultant in Poetry to the Library of Congress from 2004-2006. We do not accept unsolicited manuscripts. ****************************** -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081106/5e2932ae/attachment.html From jforjames at aol.com Thu Nov 6 14:40:07 2008 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames@aol.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:24 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Picking Pinsky for a Roethke Award Message-ID: <8CB0E5E9BA6B235-900-5C@WEBMAIL-MC07.sysops.aol.com> http://www.mlive.com/saginawnews/entertainment/index.ssf/2008/11/janet_i_martineau_the_saginaw_8.html Picking Pinsky for Roethke Poetry Award was easy task, says one of the judges by Janet I. Martineau | The Saginaw News Thursday November 06, 2008, 11:06 AM Given the fact University of Massachusetts English professor Lloyd Schwartz reads 40 to 50 new books of poetry each year, it must have been a tough job, then, to pick Robert Pinsky's "Gulf Music" as the winner of the 11th Theodore Roethke Memorial Poetry Award. Especially given the fact the prize goes to books published in the last two years, so that would make 80 to 100 books for him to choose from. And added to that, Schwartz was just one of three judges chosen to select the winner -- the others living in Florida and New York and avid poetry readers as well. "Well, actually no, it was not a tough job," says Schwartz with a laugh. "It was uncanny. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081106/dfa67387/attachment.html From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Thu Nov 6 15:00:26 2008 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:24 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Picking Pinsky for a Roethke Award In-Reply-To: <8CB0E5E9BA6B235-900-5C@WEBMAIL-MC07.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CB0E5E9BA6B235-900-5C@WEBMAIL-MC07.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <4b65c2d70811061200o4cfba3bfv85422d75644066db@mail.gmail.com> As we all know on this list, I have a soft spot for Robert Pinsky (as much as I do for Finnegan, the Oldest Mole, the Grumpy Bob, David G. the Not-Grumpy, Cervantes of the Mills, Hal-the-hoy, ... thus thanks for the link. On Thu, Nov 6, 2008 at 8:40 PM, wrote: > > http://www.mlive.com/saginawnews/entertainment/index.ssf/2008/11/janet_i_martineau_the_saginaw_8.html > Picking Pinsky for Roethke Poetry Award was easy task, says one of the > judges > by Janet I. Martineau | The Saginaw News > Thursday November 06, 2008, 11:06 AM > > Given the fact University of Massachusetts English professor Lloyd Schwartz > reads 40 to 50 new books of poetry each year, it must have been a tough job, > then, to pick Robert Pinsky's "Gulf Music" as the winner of the 11th > Theodore Roethke Memorial Poetry Award. > > Especially given the fact the prize goes to books published in the last two > years, so that would make 80 to 100 books for him to choose from. > And added to that, Schwartz was just one of three judges chosen to select > the winner -- the others living in Florida and New York and avid poetry > readers as well. > > "Well, actually no, it was not a tough job," says Schwartz with a laugh. > "It was uncanny. > > ------------------------------ > Instant access to the latest & most popular FREE games while you browse > with the Games Toolbar - Download Now! > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081106/70063227/attachment.html From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Thu Nov 6 16:16:33 2008 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:24 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Picking Pinsky for a Roethke Award In-Reply-To: <4b65c2d70811061200o4cfba3bfv85422d75644066db@mail.gmail.com> References: <8CB0E5E9BA6B235-900-5C@WEBMAIL-MC07.sysops.aol.com> <4b65c2d70811061200o4cfba3bfv85422d75644066db@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <49135EB1.50409@nut-n-but.net> > > Given the fact University of Massachusetts English professor Lloyd > Schwartz reads 40 to 50 new books of poetry each year, it must > have been a tough job, then, to pick Robert Pinsky's "Gulf Music" > as the winner of the 11th Theodore Roethke Memorial Poetry Award. > Aside from the fact that Pinsky surely has gotten enough awards, what in the world does his poetry have to do with Roethke's? --The Grump -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081106/3de33b95/attachment.html From Opus40-01 at opus40.org Thu Nov 6 17:10:12 2008 From: Opus40-01 at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:24 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Picking Pinsky for a Roethke Award In-Reply-To: <49135EB1.50409@nut-n-but.net> References: <8CB0E5E9BA6B235-900-5C@WEBMAIL-MC07.sysops.aol.com> <4b65c2d70811061200o4cfba3bfv85422d75644066db@mail.gmail.com> <49135EB1.50409@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <49136B44.1090602@opus40.org> Their names both end with the same vowel sound. Bob Grumman wrote: > >> >> Given the fact University of Massachusetts English professor >> Lloyd Schwartz reads 40 to 50 new books of poetry each year, it >> must have been a tough job, then, to pick Robert Pinsky's "Gulf >> Music" as the winner of the 11th Theodore Roethke Memorial Poetry >> Award. >> > Aside from the fact that Pinsky surely has gotten enough awards, what > in the world does his poetry have to do with Roethke's? > > --The Grump > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ Don't forget to order your copy of FILM NOIR! http://stores.lulu.com/store.php?fAcctID=2712239 From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Thu Nov 6 17:18:01 2008 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:24 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Picking Pinsky for a Roethke Award In-Reply-To: <49136B44.1090602@opus40.org> References: <8CB0E5E9BA6B235-900-5C@WEBMAIL-MC07.sysops.aol.com> <4b65c2d70811061200o4cfba3bfv85422d75644066db@mail.gmail.com><49135EB1.50409@nut-n-but.net> <49136B44.1090602@opus40.org> Message-ID: <49136D19.2000709@nut-n-but.net> Aha. That's a relief. If there's ever an E. E. Cummings Award, Pinsky won't get it. Unless his first name is Estlin. TheOldMole wrote: > Their names both end with the same vowel sound. > > Bob Grumman wrote: >> >>> >>> Given the fact University of Massachusetts English professor >>> Lloyd Schwartz reads 40 to 50 new books of poetry each year, it >>> must have been a tough job, then, to pick Robert Pinsky's "Gulf >>> Music" as the winner of the 11th Theodore Roethke Memorial Poetry >>> Award. >>> >> Aside from the fact that Pinsky surely has gotten enough awards, what >> in the world does his poetry have to do with Roethke's? >> >> --The Grump From jforjames at aol.com Thu Nov 6 17:22:33 2008 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames@aol.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:24 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Roethke Centenary at Penn State Message-ID: <8CB0E754C5F1B6C-1780-E08@MBLK-M39.sysops.aol.com> http://www.collegian.psu.edu/archive/2008/11/06/former_professor_poet_to_be_ce.aspx Former professor, poet to be celebrated For more information, visit: http://cals.psu.edu/events/Roethke.shtml Jenna Ekdahl and Jesse Hein? Collegian Staff Writer Penn State, which hasa repertoire of famous alumni, will honor one Pulitzer Prize winning author today and Friday. The Theodore Roethke Centenary Celebration is a three-part commemoration meant to recognize and honor the life and work of Penn State professor and author Theodore Roethke, a recipient of the Pulitzer Prize in 1953. "He's a huge, huge, huge American poet of the mid-century," said Julia Kasdorf, an associate professor of English. "It's a big deal that Penn State can claim him. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081106/ef95cb22/attachment.html From jforjames at aol.com Thu Nov 6 18:47:19 2008 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames@aol.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:24 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] WorldPo: India, Kashmiri poet Rahi Message-ID: <8CB0E81243019EA-738-18EE@MBLK-M36.sysops.aol.com> http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Delhi/Kashmiri_poet_Rahi_gets_Jnanpith_award/articleshow/3682772.cms Conferring the prestigious literary award on the octogenarian Kashmiri poet for his entire oeuvre over the past six decades, Singh said that honouring a distinguished voice like Rahi was actually an acknowledgement of the "power of the human mind and spirit". Pointing out that this was the first major recognition for Kashmiri literature, the PM said, "The award fulfils a very important role in presenting to the world the rich treasure house of writing in the Indian languages." Observing that "literature has long been an agent of momentous change", he said writers enhanced the human experience. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081106/3638ca4d/attachment.html From jforjames at aol.com Thu Nov 6 19:01:32 2008 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames@aol.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:24 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Zeitungfresser Message-ID: <8CB0E8320A97E2C-738-1996@MBLK-M36.sysops.aol.com> J.P.- Picked up this neat word... ? A Zeitungfresser, ?one who devours newspapers,? (here) http://www.cbw.cz/en/read-all-about-it/846.html Big thaw between China and Taiwan I see. With Love, Your Dad -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081106/c3bf497d/attachment.html From jforjames at aol.com Thu Nov 6 19:05:06 2008 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames@aol.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:24 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Zeitungfresser In-Reply-To: <8CB0E8320A97E2C-738-1996@MBLK-M36.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CB0E8320A97E2C-738-1996@MBLK-M36.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <8CB0E83A039AF86-738-19BC@MBLK-M36.sysops.aol.com> ooops...meant for my son in DC. I love you guys too. -----Original Message----- From: jforjames@aol.com To: new-poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Thu, 6 Nov 2008 7:01 pm Subject: [New-Poetry] Zeitungfresser J.P.- Picked up this neat word... ? A Zeitungfresser, ?one who devours newspapers,? (here) http://www.cbw.cz/en/read-all-about-it/846.html Big thaw between China and Taiwan I see. With Love, Your Dad Instant access to the latest & most popular FREE games while you browse with the Games Toolbar - Download Now! _______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081106/ff0b470a/attachment.html From Opus40-01 at opus40.org Thu Nov 6 19:06:10 2008 From: Opus40-01 at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:25 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Sarah Palin on Beethoven Message-ID: <49138672.90205@opus40.org> http://jeremydenk.net/blog/2008/10/22/an-interview-with-sarah-palin/#comment-4139 -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ Don't forget to order your copy of FILM NOIR! http://stores.lulu.com/store.php?fAcctID=2712239 From cervantes.james at gmail.com Thu Nov 6 19:11:33 2008 From: cervantes.james at gmail.com (James Cervantes) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:25 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Sarah Palin on Beethoven In-Reply-To: <49138672.90205@opus40.org> References: <49138672.90205@opus40.org> Message-ID: <648208b60811061611q6806e65fn5647e4e086f7f0cc@mail.gmail.com> Heh heh heh. Thanks, Tad. And, remember, a sharp is a flat with a Budweiser in him . . . or her. - Jim On Thu, Nov 6, 2008 at 5:06 PM, TheOldMole wrote: > > http://jeremydenk.net/blog/2008/10/22/an-interview-with-sarah-palin/#comment-4139 > > -- > Tad Richards > http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ > http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ > > Don't forget to order your copy of FILM NOIR! > http://stores.lulu.com/store.php?fAcctID=2712239 > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning http://www.fieralingue.it/documenti/mr_bondo.pdf http://www.poetserv.org/jvc/home/index.html http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamescervantes/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081106/3f97b2ee/attachment.html From jforjames at aol.com Thu Nov 6 19:17:49 2008 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames@aol.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:25 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fem Vizpo Message-ID: <8CB0E856702A19E-738-1A5E@MBLK-M36.sysops.aol.com> http://looktouch.wordpress.com/2008/11/02/female-visual-poets/ Bob, fair and balanced NewPoetry, trying to give equal time to the poetry that doesn't think language plain is enough of a struggle. Finnegan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081106/06ab0466/attachment.html From Rsgwynn1 at cs.com Thu Nov 6 19:38:14 2008 From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com (Rsgwynn1@cs.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:25 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Sarah Palin on Beethoven Message-ID: In a message dated 11/6/2008 6:06:32 PM Central Standard Time, Opus40-01@opus40.org writes: > > http://jeremydenk.net/blog/2008/10/22/an-interview-with-sarah-palin/#comment-4139 Funny, but would you please be quiet please, to paraphrase Ray Carver. I've had about enough of this campaign and would surely like to put Sarah Palin to bed for a while. I'm Sam Gwynn, and I approve this message. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081106/c4fe510c/attachment.html From halvard at earthlink.net Thu Nov 6 19:38:43 2008 From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:25 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Quote du jour Message-ID: <6034A89F-08C4-4B47-833C-E55FDE5BE772@earthlink.net> "The days are wonderful and the nights are wonderful and the life is pleasant." -Gertrude Stein, "Portrait of Mable Dodge at the Villa Curonia" Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard@earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Thu Nov 6 19:44:53 2008 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:25 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fem Vizpo In-Reply-To: <8CB0E856702A19E-738-1A5E@MBLK-M36.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CB0E856702A19E-738-1A5E@MBLK-M36.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <49138F85.3020008@nut-n-but.net> jforjames@aol.com wrote: > http://looktouch.wordpress.com/2008/11/02/female-visual-poets/ > > Bob, fair and balanced NewPoetry, trying to give equal time to the > poetry that doesn't think language plain is enough of a struggle. > Finnegan Thanks, James--although I like to think of visual poetry not as poetry wanting to out-struggle language plain, but to do do something excitingly different from it. --Bob G. From halvard at earthlink.net Thu Nov 6 19:51:08 2008 From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:25 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Sarah Palin on Beethoven In-Reply-To: <49138672.90205@opus40.org> References: <49138672.90205@opus40.org> Message-ID: <1893FB83-5600-4CBB-8BBD-5BBEA13535D3@earthlink.net> Cute, Tad. And let's put S.G. to bed until he learns to hit his delete key whenever S.P. appears on his screen. Hal "Everyone has a right to be stupid but some people abuse the privilege." --Joseph Stalin Halvard Johnson ================ halvard@earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html On Nov 6, 2008, at 6:06 PM, TheOldMole wrote: > http://jeremydenk.net/blog/2008/10/22/an-interview-with-sarah-palin/#comment-4139 > > -- > Tad Richards > http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ > http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ > > Don't forget to order your copy of FILM NOIR! > http://stores.lulu.com/store.php?fAcctID=2712239 > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From Opus40-01 at opus40.org Thu Nov 6 20:04:50 2008 From: Opus40-01 at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:25 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Sarah Palin on Beethoven In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <49139432.1080503@opus40.org> I'll pretend I didn't hear that. Rsgwynn1@cs.com wrote: > In a message dated 11/6/2008 6:06:32 PM Central Standard Time, > Opus40-01@opus40.org writes: >> http://jeremydenk.net/blog/2008/10/22/an-interview-with-sarah-palin/#comment-4139 > > Funny, but would you please be quiet please, to paraphrase Ray > Carver. I've had about enough of this campaign and would surely like > to put Sarah Palin to bed for a while. > > I'm Sam Gwynn, and I approve this message. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ Don't forget to order your copy of FILM NOIR! http://stores.lulu.com/store.php?fAcctID=2712239 From cervantes.james at gmail.com Thu Nov 6 20:22:39 2008 From: cervantes.james at gmail.com (James Cervantes) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:25 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Sarah Palin on Beethoven In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <648208b60811061722p21f32090meda1d2b374a57883@mail.gmail.com> On Thu, Nov 6, 2008 at 5:38 PM, wrote: > In a message dated 11/6/2008 6:06:32 PM Central Standard Time, > Opus40-01@opus40.org writes: > > > http://jeremydenk.net/blog/2008/10/22/an-interview-with-sarah-palin/#comment-4139 > > > Funny, but would you please be quiet please, to paraphrase Ray Carver. > I've had about enough of this campaign and would surely like to put Sarah > Palin to bed for a while. Talkin' dirty, are ya? -- Jim ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning http://www.fieralingue.it/documenti/mr_bondo.pdf http://www.poetserv.org/jvc/home/index.html http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamescervantes/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081106/917d8df5/attachment.html From Rsgwynn1 at cs.com Thu Nov 6 20:29:43 2008 From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com (Rsgwynn1@cs.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:25 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Sarah Palin on Beethoven Message-ID: In a message dated 11/6/2008 6:51:40 PM Central Standard Time, halvard@earthlink.net writes: > > > Cute, Tad. And let's put S.G. to bed until he learns to hit his > delete key whenever S.P. appears on his screen. > No, no, no! Even Alec Baldwin thought she was hot! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081106/52288b99/attachment.html From Rsgwynn1 at cs.com Thu Nov 6 20:32:11 2008 From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com (Rsgwynn1@cs.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:25 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Sarah Palin on Beethoven Message-ID: In a message dated 11/6/2008 7:23:02 PM Central Standard Time, cervantes.james@gmail.com writes: > > >> >> >> Funny, but would you please be quiet please, to paraphrase Ray Carver. >> I've had about enough of this campaign and would surely like to put Sarah Palin >> to bed for a while. > > > Talkin' dirty, are ya? > > > -- Jim Who, me? You have a nasty mind, J. C. Shame, shame. I'm Michael Palin, and I approve this message. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081106/323e8fca/attachment.html From cervantes.james at gmail.com Thu Nov 6 20:33:02 2008 From: cervantes.james at gmail.com (James Cervantes) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:25 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Call for Submissions: Poetic Responses to the 2008 American Elections In-Reply-To: <4b65c2d70811051023x4ac30c29k2962f21cf262df81@mail.gmail.com> References: <428270.52745.qm@web54410.mail.yahoo.com> <4b65c2d70811051023x4ac30c29k2962f21cf262df81@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <648208b60811061733w5a18979aud154f01b57c0c3ab@mail.gmail.com> Uh, the title? How about Snowflakes Falling: A Wordless Conflict? - Jim On Wed, Nov 5, 2008 at 11:23 AM, Anny Ballardini wrote: > > > > > * * > > *While the He/art Pants:* > > *Poetic Responses to the 2008 American Elections* > > * * > > *Call for Submissions* > > *Artistic representations, responses, and interrogations of electoral > events are very important expressions of the endless conversation between > art and historical experience. The 2008 American elections stimulated a lot > of artistic responses and there were, in the campaign discourses, some > subtle invocations of the postures of presidential aspirants to literature > and cultural productions generally. What, as a poet (defined broadly), is > the meaning of this whole experience of the 2008 elections? Send us your > previously unpublished works (poems, paintings, manipulated photographs, > etc) about the 2008 US elections for inclusion in an online anthology:While > the He/Art Pants (a title derived from Walt Whitman's poem reproduced > below), to soon appear on the Poet's Corner, Fiera Lingue. Images should > be on Jpeg format. As this promises to be a very interesting project, we > request that you send up to five of the most uncompromising and > stylistically surprising of your works and a short bio. Other works that do > not necessarily focus on the 2008 US elections but are relevant to the > dialogue between art and democratic politics will be considered. * > > *Submissions are to be made electronically to: Obododimma Oha (Guest > Editor) obodooha@gmail.com , udude@full-moon.com * > > * * > > *OR * > > * * > > *Anny Ballardini (Editor, The Poet's Corner)* > > *anny.ballardini@gmail.com* > > *Link to the main index of the site:* > > *http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=Content* > > * * > > *------------------------------- * > > * * > > *Election Day, November 1884* *from Leaves of Grass by Walt Whitman (1892) > * > > > If I should need to name, O Western World, your powerfulest scene and show, > 'Twould not be you, Niagara?nor you, ye limitless prairies?nor your huge > rifts of canyons, Colorado, > Nor you, Yosemite?nor Yellowstone, with all its spasmic geyserloops > ascending to the skies, appearing and disappearing, > Nor Oregon's white cones?nor Huron's belt of mighty lakes?nor Mississippi's > stream: > ?This seething hemisphere's humanity, as now, I'd name?the still small > voice vibrating?America's choosing day, > (The heart of it not in the chosen?the act itself the main, the quadrennial > choosing,) > The stretch of North and South arous'd-sea-board and inland-Texas to > Maine?the Prairie States?Vermont, Virginia, California, > The final ballot-shower from East to West?the paradox and conflict, > The countless snow-flakes falling?(a swordless conflict, > Yet more than all Rome's wars of old, or modern Napoleon's:) the peaceful > choice of all, > Or good or ill humanity?welcoming the darker odds, the dross: > ?Foams and ferments the wine? it serves to purify?while the heart pants, > life glows: > These stormy gusts and winds waft precious ships, > Swell'd Washington's, Jefferson's, Lincoln's sails. > > > > > > > > -- > Anny Ballardini > http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ > http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome > http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html > I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing > star! > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081106/b7b4c1cc/attachment.html From by.tjmst at gmail.com Thu Nov 6 22:44:42 2008 From: by.tjmst at gmail.com (BY TJMST) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:26 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: New-Poetry Digest, Vol 53, Issue 12 In-Reply-To: <200811061700.mA6H04nK013314@wiz.cath.vt.edu> References: <200811061700.mA6H04nK013314@wiz.cath.vt.edu> Message-ID: <5908b9b20811061944o410d6529ke33c58784eaaea06@mail.gmail.com> I agree with Matt Flair 's view that poetry ought to be brought out of the garret to avoid perpetual anaemia in swoooned poets....More comment when is nood is richer.-GBEMI TIJANI MST On 11/6/08, new-poetry-request@wiz.cath.vt.edu wrote: > Send New-Poetry mailing list submissions to > new-poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > new-poetry-request@wiz.cath.vt.edu > > You can reach the person managing the list at > new-poetry-owner@wiz.cath.vt.edu > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of New-Poetry digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: What's wrong with cornflower blue pantaloons? (Roger Day) > 2. Re: What's wrong with cornflower blue pantaloons? > (robert e. watling jr.) > 3. Re: What's wrong with cornflower blue pantaloons? (Roger Day) > 4. Re: What's wrong with cornflower blue pantaloons? > (robert e. watling jr.) > 5. Re: Poetic Justice (Bob Grumman) > 6. Re: Poetic Justice (David Weinstock) > 7. Best o' the blogs (jforjames@aol.com) > 8. Re: Poetic Justice (Halvard Johnson) > 9. Re: Re: Poetic Justice (Bob Grumman) > 10. Kooser's Pick (Anny Ballardini) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2008 19:37:05 +0000 > From: "Roger Day" > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] What's wrong with cornflower blue > pantaloons? > To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &, Views" > > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > A strawman for a slow day when the attention is elsewhere? > > Roger > > On Wed, Nov 5, 2008 at 7:23 PM, wrote: >> http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/booksblog/2008/nov/05/chatterton-poetry-romantic >> >> Poetry needs to move out of the garret for good >> >> The myth of the poet as swooning sap is outdated and pernicious >> ________________________________ >> Instant access to the latest & most popular FREE games while you browse >> with >> the Games Toolbar - Download Now! >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > > > > -- > My Stuff: http://www.badstep.net/ > "I began to warm and chill > to objects and their fields" > Nick Cave & The Bad Seeds > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2008 11:41:32 -0800 > From: "robert e. watling jr." > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] What's wrong with cornflower blue > pantaloons? > To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views" > > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; delsp=yes; > charset=iso-8859-15 > > On Wed, 05 Nov 2008 11:23:13 -0800, wrote: > >> Poetry needs to move out of the garret for good >> >> The myth of the poet as swooning sap is outdated and pernicious > > Hey, I'm wearing cornflower blue pantaloons right now! > How'dya know?...rewjr > > -- > "Cogito ergo...how does that go again?"...rewjr. > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2008 20:45:30 +0000 > From: "Roger Day" > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] What's wrong with cornflower blue > pantaloons? > To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &, Views" > > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > That shade of cornflower blue? sooooo pass? > > On Wed, Nov 5, 2008 at 7:41 PM, robert e. watling jr. > wrote: >> On Wed, 05 Nov 2008 11:23:13 -0800, wrote: >> >>> Poetry needs to move out of the garret for good >>> >>> The myth of the poet as swooning sap is outdated and pernicious >> >> Hey, I'm wearing cornflower blue pantaloons right now! >> How'dya know?...rewjr >> >> -- >> "Cogito ergo...how does that go again?"...rewjr. >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> > > > > -- > My Stuff: http://www.badstep.net/ > "I began to warm and chill > to objects and their fields" > Nick Cave & The Bad Seeds > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2008 12:49:03 -0800 > From: "robert e. watling jr." > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] What's wrong with cornflower blue > pantaloons? > To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views" > > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; delsp=yes; > charset=iso-8859-15 > > On Wed, 05 Nov 2008 12:45:30 -0800, Roger Day wrote: > >> That shade of cornflower blue? sooooo pass? > > They look great though when you're languishing across the bed in your > ruffled silk shirt trying to get some rich patroness to take pity on you. > The curly red hair doesn't hurt either but you have to be just the right > shade of pale and just gaunt enough...r. > > -- > "Cogito ergo...how does that go again?"...rewjr. > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2008 17:44:12 -0500 > From: Bob Grumman > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Poetic Justice > To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views" > > Message-ID: <491221BC.4020803@nut-n-but.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > Halvard Johnson wrote: >> Obama, sad to say, doesn't become POTUS until >> Jan. 24 (?), 2009. >> >> Hal >> > Oh, please, Hal: surely you don't think Bush will be able to defeat the > terrorists in Iraq by then?! And I doubt that Obama could shower > incompetents with money any faster than Bush already is. > > --Bob G. > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 6 > Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2008 17:52:18 -0500 > From: "David Weinstock" > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Poetic Justice > To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &, Views" > > Message-ID: > <437b1e3a0811051452mf0b3fd6x65904cf44a820eb2@mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > It's usually Jan. 20th. > > > > On Wed, Nov 5, 2008 at 5:44 PM, Bob Grumman wrote: > >> Halvard Johnson wrote: >> >>> Obama, sad to say, doesn't become POTUS until >>> Jan. 24 (?), 2009. >>> >>> Hal >>> >>> Oh, please, Hal: surely you don't think Bush will be able to defeat the >> terrorists in Iraq by then?! And I doubt that Obama could shower >> incompetents with money any faster than Bush already is. >> >> --Bob G. >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> > > > > -- > .......................................................... > > DAVID WEINSTOCK > 240 Woodland Park, Middlebury, VT 05753 > > Home: 802-388-6939 > Cell: 802-989-4314 > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081105/90f4303d/attachment-0001.html > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 7 > Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2008 18:32:51 -0500 > From: jforjames@aol.com > Subject: [New-Poetry] Best o' the blogs > To: new-poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > Message-ID: <8CB0DB5F457761A-1180-2699@WEBMAIL-DY06.sysops.aol.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > http://isola-di-rifiuti.blogspot.com/ > > Latta puts Dean Young thru his critical wringer: See Nov. 3rd post. > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081105/22580adf/attachment-0001.html > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 8 > Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2008 18:18:19 -0600 > From: Halvard Johnson > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Poetic Justice > To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views" > > Message-ID: <27F39D92-BA46-447B-B85D-3E3789D1EBF4@earthlink.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Even better, by four days. > > Hal > > "Artists are the engineers of the soul." > --Iosif Dzhugashvili > > Halvard Johnson > ================ > halvard@earthlink.net > http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > http://www.hamiltonstone.org > http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html > > > On Nov 5, 2008, at 4:52 PM, David Weinstock wrote: > >> It's usually Jan. 20th. >> >> >> >> On Wed, Nov 5, 2008 at 5:44 PM, Bob Grumman > but.net> wrote: >> Halvard Johnson wrote: >> Obama, sad to say, doesn't become POTUS until >> Jan. 24 (?), 2009. >> >> Hal >> >> Oh, please, Hal: surely you don't think Bush will be able to defeat >> the terrorists in Iraq by then?! And I doubt that Obama could >> shower incompetents with money any faster than Bush already is. >> >> --Bob G. >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> >> >> -- >> .......................................................... >> >> DAVID WEINSTOCK >> 240 Woodland Park, Middlebury, VT 05753 >> >> Home: 802-388-6939 >> Cell: 802-989-4314 >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081105/24f0ec98/attachment-0001.html > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 9 > Date: Thu, 06 Nov 2008 06:57:01 -0500 > From: Bob Grumman > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Re: Poetic Justice > To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views" > > Message-ID: <4912DB8D.1040009@nut-n-but.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > John Jeffrey wrote: >> Hmmm. Did I say something wrong, Bob? You sound a bit riled. > I was slightly irritated, John. I don't have what I said nor what you > said that I was replying to, so I'm not sure why, but think I felt you > were complaining about others not discussing poetry while not discussing > it very much yourself. All you said about the Oliver poem was that it > was boring, then later agreeing maybe you were wrong to judge it on its > first lines only but that you still didn't think much of the poem. A > discussion, for me, would be more specific about the flaws and virtues > of a poem. Also, I take you for someone on the other side of poetry > fence from me, so tend to be a little riled against whatever you say. > > >> Judy, here's a wee one of my poems, as you so unwittingly requested: >> >> Reality TV >> >> I sat for hours, bored and soured, >> watching bad TV. >> Then realized the set was off >> and just reflecting me. > Nice piece of light verse, and I'm not one who looks down on light > verse. On the other hand, what does it have going for it besides a > wittilly self-demoting observation, with efficient but entirely standard > meter and rhyme? And a nice slightly-off word ("soured") to freshen the > diction. > > --Bob G. > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081106/c16ea3f3/attachment-0001.html > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 10 > Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2008 20:28:48 +0100 > From: "Anny Ballardini" > Subject: [New-Poetry] Kooser's Pick > To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &, Views" > > Message-ID: > <4b65c2d70811061128r68fc7f3va8895f3f9fff78c7@mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > Welcome to American Life in Poetry. For information on permissions and > usage, or to download a PDF version of the column, visit > www.americanlifeinpoetry.org. > > ****************************** > > American Life in Poetry: Column 189 > > BY TED KOOSER, U.S. POET LAUREATE, 2004-2006 > > In celebration of Veteran's Day, here is a telling poem by Gary Dop, a > Minnesota poet. The veterans of World War II, now old, are dying by > the thousands. Here's one still with us, standing at Normandy, > remembering. > > > On Swearing > > In Normandy, at Point Du Hoc, > where some Rangers died, > Dad pointed to an old man > 20 feet closer to the edge than us, > asking if I could see > the medal the man held > like a rosary. > As we approached the cliff > the man's swearing, each bulleted > syllable, sifted back > toward us in the ocean wind. > I turned away, > but my shoulder was held still > by my father's hand, > and I looked up at him > as he looked at the man. > > > American Life in Poetry is made possible by The Poetry Foundation > (www.poetryfoundation.org), publisher of Poetry magazine. It is also > supported by the Department of English at the University of > Nebraska-Lincoln. Poem copyright (c) 2007 by Gary Dop. Reprinted from > "Whistling Shade," Summer, 2007, by permission of Gary Dop. > Introduction copyright (c) 2008 by The Poetry Foundation. The > introduction's author, Ted Kooser, served as United States Poet > Laureate Consultant in Poetry to the Library of Congress from > 2004-2006. We do not accept unsolicited manuscripts. > > ****************************** > > > > -- > Anny Ballardini > http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ > http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome > http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html > I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing > star! > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081106/5e2932ae/attachment-0001.html > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > End of New-Poetry Digest, Vol 53, Issue 12 > ****************************************** > From by.tjmst at gmail.com Thu Nov 6 22:49:00 2008 From: by.tjmst at gmail.com (BY TJMST) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:26 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: New-Poetry Digest, Vol 53, Issue 12 In-Reply-To: <5908b9b20811061944o410d6529ke33c58784eaaea06@mail.gmail.com> References: <200811061700.mA6H04nK013314@wiz.cath.vt.edu> <5908b9b20811061944o410d6529ke33c58784eaaea06@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <5908b9b20811061949g668083d9ra4f7854a32b9f454@mail.gmail.com> P.S RE SWOONED POETS-I actually mean more comments when my mood is richer on Matt Flair 's view that poetry ought to be brought out of the garret---GBEMI TIJANI MST On 11/7/08, BY TJMST wrote: > I agree with Matt Flair 's view that poetry ought to be brought out > of the garret to avoid perpetual anaemia in swoooned poets....More > comment when is nood is richer.-GBEMI TIJANI MST > > On 11/6/08, new-poetry-request@wiz.cath.vt.edu > wrote: >> Send New-Poetry mailing list submissions to >> new-poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu >> >> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to >> new-poetry-request@wiz.cath.vt.edu >> >> You can reach the person managing the list at >> new-poetry-owner@wiz.cath.vt.edu >> >> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific >> than "Re: Contents of New-Poetry digest..." >> >> >> Today's Topics: >> >> 1. Re: What's wrong with cornflower blue pantaloons? (Roger Day) >> 2. Re: What's wrong with cornflower blue pantaloons? >> (robert e. watling jr.) >> 3. Re: What's wrong with cornflower blue pantaloons? (Roger Day) >> 4. Re: What's wrong with cornflower blue pantaloons? >> (robert e. watling jr.) >> 5. Re: Poetic Justice (Bob Grumman) >> 6. Re: Poetic Justice (David Weinstock) >> 7. Best o' the blogs (jforjames@aol.com) >> 8. Re: Poetic Justice (Halvard Johnson) >> 9. Re: Re: Poetic Justice (Bob Grumman) >> 10. Kooser's Pick (Anny Ballardini) >> >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> Message: 1 >> Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2008 19:37:05 +0000 >> From: "Roger Day" >> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] What's wrong with cornflower blue >> pantaloons? >> To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &, Views" >> >> Message-ID: >> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 >> >> A strawman for a slow day when the attention is elsewhere? >> >> Roger >> >> On Wed, Nov 5, 2008 at 7:23 PM, wrote: >>> http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/booksblog/2008/nov/05/chatterton-poetry-romantic >>> >>> Poetry needs to move out of the garret for good >>> >>> The myth of the poet as swooning sap is outdated and pernicious >>> ________________________________ >>> Instant access to the latest & most popular FREE games while you browse >>> with >>> the Games Toolbar - Download Now! >>> _______________________________________________ >>> New-Poetry mailing list >>> New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu >>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>> >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> My Stuff: http://www.badstep.net/ >> "I began to warm and chill >> to objects and their fields" >> Nick Cave & The Bad Seeds >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 2 >> Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2008 11:41:32 -0800 >> From: "robert e. watling jr." >> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] What's wrong with cornflower blue >> pantaloons? >> To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views" >> >> Message-ID: >> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; delsp=yes; >> charset=iso-8859-15 >> >> On Wed, 05 Nov 2008 11:23:13 -0800, wrote: >> >>> Poetry needs to move out of the garret for good >>> >>> The myth of the poet as swooning sap is outdated and pernicious >> >> Hey, I'm wearing cornflower blue pantaloons right now! >> How'dya know?...rewjr >> >> -- >> "Cogito ergo...how does that go again?"...rewjr. >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 3 >> Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2008 20:45:30 +0000 >> From: "Roger Day" >> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] What's wrong with cornflower blue >> pantaloons? >> To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &, Views" >> >> Message-ID: >> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 >> >> That shade of cornflower blue? sooooo pass? >> >> On Wed, Nov 5, 2008 at 7:41 PM, robert e. watling jr. >> wrote: >>> On Wed, 05 Nov 2008 11:23:13 -0800, wrote: >>> >>>> Poetry needs to move out of the garret for good >>>> >>>> The myth of the poet as swooning sap is outdated and pernicious >>> >>> Hey, I'm wearing cornflower blue pantaloons right now! >>> How'dya know?...rewjr >>> >>> -- >>> "Cogito ergo...how does that go again?"...rewjr. >>> _______________________________________________ >>> New-Poetry mailing list >>> New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu >>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> My Stuff: http://www.badstep.net/ >> "I began to warm and chill >> to objects and their fields" >> Nick Cave & The Bad Seeds >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 4 >> Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2008 12:49:03 -0800 >> From: "robert e. watling jr." >> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] What's wrong with cornflower blue >> pantaloons? >> To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views" >> >> Message-ID: >> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; delsp=yes; >> charset=iso-8859-15 >> >> On Wed, 05 Nov 2008 12:45:30 -0800, Roger Day >> wrote: >> >>> That shade of cornflower blue? sooooo pass? >> >> They look great though when you're languishing across the bed in your >> ruffled silk shirt trying to get some rich patroness to take pity on you. >> The curly red hair doesn't hurt either but you have to be just the right >> shade of pale and just gaunt enough...r. >> >> -- >> "Cogito ergo...how does that go again?"...rewjr. >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 5 >> Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2008 17:44:12 -0500 >> From: Bob Grumman >> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Poetic Justice >> To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views" >> >> Message-ID: <491221BC.4020803@nut-n-but.net> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed >> >> Halvard Johnson wrote: >>> Obama, sad to say, doesn't become POTUS until >>> Jan. 24 (?), 2009. >>> >>> Hal >>> >> Oh, please, Hal: surely you don't think Bush will be able to defeat the >> terrorists in Iraq by then?! And I doubt that Obama could shower >> incompetents with money any faster than Bush already is. >> >> --Bob G. >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 6 >> Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2008 17:52:18 -0500 >> From: "David Weinstock" >> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Poetic Justice >> To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &, Views" >> >> Message-ID: >> <437b1e3a0811051452mf0b3fd6x65904cf44a820eb2@mail.gmail.com> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" >> >> It's usually Jan. 20th. >> >> >> >> On Wed, Nov 5, 2008 at 5:44 PM, Bob Grumman >> wrote: >> >>> Halvard Johnson wrote: >>> >>>> Obama, sad to say, doesn't become POTUS until >>>> Jan. 24 (?), 2009. >>>> >>>> Hal >>>> >>>> Oh, please, Hal: surely you don't think Bush will be able to defeat >>>> the >>> terrorists in Iraq by then?! And I doubt that Obama could shower >>> incompetents with money any faster than Bush already is. >>> >>> --Bob G. >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> New-Poetry mailing list >>> New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu >>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> .......................................................... >> >> DAVID WEINSTOCK >> 240 Woodland Park, Middlebury, VT 05753 >> >> Home: 802-388-6939 >> Cell: 802-989-4314 >> -------------- next part -------------- >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >> URL: >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081105/90f4303d/attachment-0001.html >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 7 >> Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2008 18:32:51 -0500 >> From: jforjames@aol.com >> Subject: [New-Poetry] Best o' the blogs >> To: new-poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu >> Message-ID: <8CB0DB5F457761A-1180-2699@WEBMAIL-DY06.sysops.aol.com> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >> >> http://isola-di-rifiuti.blogspot.com/ >> >> Latta puts Dean Young thru his critical wringer: See Nov. 3rd post. >> -------------- next part -------------- >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >> URL: >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081105/22580adf/attachment-0001.html >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 8 >> Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2008 18:18:19 -0600 >> From: Halvard Johnson >> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Poetic Justice >> To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views" >> >> Message-ID: <27F39D92-BA46-447B-B85D-3E3789D1EBF4@earthlink.net> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >> >> Even better, by four days. >> >> Hal >> >> "Artists are the engineers of the soul." >> --Iosif Dzhugashvili >> >> Halvard Johnson >> ================ >> halvard@earthlink.net >> http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html >> http://entropyandme.blogspot.com >> http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com >> http://www.hamiltonstone.org >> http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html >> >> >> On Nov 5, 2008, at 4:52 PM, David Weinstock wrote: >> >>> It's usually Jan. 20th. >>> >>> >>> >>> On Wed, Nov 5, 2008 at 5:44 PM, Bob Grumman >> but.net> wrote: >>> Halvard Johnson wrote: >>> Obama, sad to say, doesn't become POTUS until >>> Jan. 24 (?), 2009. >>> >>> Hal >>> >>> Oh, please, Hal: surely you don't think Bush will be able to defeat >>> the terrorists in Iraq by then?! And I doubt that Obama could >>> shower incompetents with money any faster than Bush already is. >>> >>> --Bob G. >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> New-Poetry mailing list >>> New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu >>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> .......................................................... >>> >>> DAVID WEINSTOCK >>> 240 Woodland Park, Middlebury, VT 05753 >>> >>> Home: 802-388-6939 >>> Cell: 802-989-4314 >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> New-Poetry mailing list >>> New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu >>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> -------------- next part -------------- >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >> URL: >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081105/24f0ec98/attachment-0001.html >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 9 >> Date: Thu, 06 Nov 2008 06:57:01 -0500 >> From: Bob Grumman >> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Re: Poetic Justice >> To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views" >> >> Message-ID: <4912DB8D.1040009@nut-n-but.net> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" >> >> John Jeffrey wrote: >>> Hmmm. Did I say something wrong, Bob? You sound a bit riled. >> I was slightly irritated, John. I don't have what I said nor what you >> said that I was replying to, so I'm not sure why, but think I felt you >> were complaining about others not discussing poetry while not discussing >> it very much yourself. All you said about the Oliver poem was that it >> was boring, then later agreeing maybe you were wrong to judge it on its >> first lines only but that you still didn't think much of the poem. A >> discussion, for me, would be more specific about the flaws and virtues >> of a poem. Also, I take you for someone on the other side of poetry >> fence from me, so tend to be a little riled against whatever you say. >> >> >>> Judy, here's a wee one of my poems, as you so unwittingly requested: >>> >>> Reality TV >>> >>> I sat for hours, bored and soured, >>> watching bad TV. >>> Then realized the set was off >>> and just reflecting me. >> Nice piece of light verse, and I'm not one who looks down on light >> verse. On the other hand, what does it have going for it besides a >> wittilly self-demoting observation, with efficient but entirely standard >> meter and rhyme? And a nice slightly-off word ("soured") to freshen the >> diction. >> >> --Bob G. >> -------------- next part -------------- >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >> URL: >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081106/c16ea3f3/attachment-0001.html >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 10 >> Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2008 20:28:48 +0100 >> From: "Anny Ballardini" >> Subject: [New-Poetry] Kooser's Pick >> To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &, Views" >> >> Message-ID: >> <4b65c2d70811061128r68fc7f3va8895f3f9fff78c7@mail.gmail.com> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" >> >> Welcome to American Life in Poetry. For information on permissions and >> usage, or to download a PDF version of the column, visit >> www.americanlifeinpoetry.org. >> >> ****************************** >> >> American Life in Poetry: Column 189 >> >> BY TED KOOSER, U.S. POET LAUREATE, 2004-2006 >> >> In celebration of Veteran's Day, here is a telling poem by Gary Dop, a >> Minnesota poet. The veterans of World War II, now old, are dying by >> the thousands. Here's one still with us, standing at Normandy, >> remembering. >> >> >> On Swearing >> >> In Normandy, at Point Du Hoc, >> where some Rangers died, >> Dad pointed to an old man >> 20 feet closer to the edge than us, >> asking if I could see >> the medal the man held >> like a rosary. >> As we approached the cliff >> the man's swearing, each bulleted >> syllable, sifted back >> toward us in the ocean wind. >> I turned away, >> but my shoulder was held still >> by my father's hand, >> and I looked up at him >> as he looked at the man. >> >> >> American Life in Poetry is made possible by The Poetry Foundation >> (www.poetryfoundation.org), publisher of Poetry magazine. It is also >> supported by the Department of English at the University of >> Nebraska-Lincoln. Poem copyright (c) 2007 by Gary Dop. Reprinted from >> "Whistling Shade," Summer, 2007, by permission of Gary Dop. >> Introduction copyright (c) 2008 by The Poetry Foundation. The >> introduction's author, Ted Kooser, served as United States Poet >> Laureate Consultant in Poetry to the Library of Congress from >> 2004-2006. We do not accept unsolicited manuscripts. >> >> ****************************** >> >> >> >> -- >> Anny Ballardini >> http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ >> http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome >> http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html >> I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing >> star! >> -------------- next part -------------- >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >> URL: >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081106/5e2932ae/attachment-0001.html >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> >> End of New-Poetry Digest, Vol 53, Issue 12 >> ****************************************** >> > From jjeffreymail at yahoo.com Thu Nov 6 22:56:28 2008 From: jjeffreymail at yahoo.com (John Jeffrey) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:26 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Poetic Justice References: <1249.79872.qm@web54101.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <4912DB8D.1040009@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <114934.95561.qm@web54107.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Bob, Maybe that is all it has going for it, a "wittilly self-demoting observation". I don't mind. It's funny, and I like that. And I like "soured," and I like that the guy didn't realize that the set was off until "hours" went by. Also, I chose to keep the meter standard because in this type of poem, it's expected (you're cringing at that comment, aren't you?) and in such a short piece any excessive break in the meter would seem too jarring. It would overwhelm the poor little thing. Too, I like the fact that many people, when they hear the title, settle in to nod and laugh at such an easy target: reality television. Everyone seems to agree that it's "awful...Oh, it's mindless...drivel...I'd rather stare at the wall..." Over and over. Yet, those sentiments are frequently followed with a sheepish, "though I'll admit I do watch...[Amer Idol, Survivor, Dancing whatever, Cooking whatever, insert here]. So I like that the poem points the finger not the shows but at us, since there would be no such shows without a willing audience. And I don't much mind that lots of folk miss the simple point and laugh simply because the character in the poem is staring at a blank tv set and doesn't realize it's off. That's makes me chuckle. (I also like the two-mirror idea of the guy sitting there, bored, watching a guy sitting there bored, watching a guy sitting there...but that's just me forcing something into the poem that I don't really explore.) I wasn't going for much more than that, a laugh, maybe a little a-ha moment. Oh, and yes, I also like that it is crafted and metrical and rhymes and... I'm sure that makes many tut-tut in head-shaking pity. Then again, it is just a little quatrain of light verse. Lastly, yes, I'd imagine that we're on the different sides of the poetry fence. But so what? We're still neighbors, and I may need to borrow some sugar someday. JohnJ ________________________________ From: Bob Grumman To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views" Sent: Thursday, November 6, 2008 6:57:01 AM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Re: Poetic Justice John Jeffrey wrote: Hmmm. Did I say something wrong, Bob? You sound a bit riled. I was slightly irritated, John. I don't have what I said nor what you said that I was replying to, so I'm not sure why, but think I felt you were complaining about others not discussing poetry while not discussing it very much yourself. All you said about the Oliver poem was that it was boring, then later agreeing maybe you were wrong to judge it on its first lines only but that you still didn't think much of the poem. A discussion, for me, would be more specific about the flaws and virtues of a poem. Also, I take you for someone on the other side of poetry fence from me, so tend to be a little riled against whatever you say. Judy, here's a wee one of my poems, as you so unwittingly requested: Reality TV I sat for hours, bored and soured, watching bad TV. Then realized the set was off and just reflecting me. Nice piece of light verse, and I'm not one who looks down on light verse. On the other hand, what does it have going for it besides a wittilly self-demoting observation, with efficient but entirely standard meter and rhyme? And a nice slightly-off word ("soured") to freshen the diction. --Bob G. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081106/ee3961e2/attachment.html From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Fri Nov 7 00:03:06 2008 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:26 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Call for Submissions: Poetic Responses to the 2008 American Elections In-Reply-To: <648208b60811061733w5a18979aud154f01b57c0c3ab@mail.gmail.com> References: <428270.52745.qm@web54410.mail.yahoo.com> <4b65c2d70811051023x4ac30c29k2962f21cf262df81@mail.gmail.com> <648208b60811061733w5a18979aud154f01b57c0c3ab@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4b65c2d70811062103r4251f1e8v2bdab4539315ef72@mail.gmail.com> Much better, thanks James. On Fri, Nov 7, 2008 at 2:33 AM, James Cervantes wrote: > Uh, the title? How about Snowflakes Falling: A Wordless Conflict? > - Jim > > On Wed, Nov 5, 2008 at 11:23 AM, Anny Ballardini < > anny.ballardini@gmail.com> wrote: > >> >> >> >> >> * * >> >> *While the He/art Pants:* >> >> *Poetic Responses to the 2008 American Elections* >> >> * * >> >> *Call for Submissions* >> >> *Artistic representations, responses, and interrogations of electoral >> events are very important expressions of the endless conversation between >> art and historical experience. The 2008 American elections stimulated a lot >> of artistic responses and there were, in the campaign discourses, some >> subtle invocations of the postures of presidential aspirants to literature >> and cultural productions generally. What, as a poet (defined broadly), is >> the meaning of this whole experience of the 2008 elections? Send us your >> previously unpublished works (poems, paintings, manipulated photographs, >> etc) about the 2008 US elections for inclusion in an online anthology:While >> the He/Art Pants (a title derived from Walt Whitman's poem reproduced >> below), to soon appear on the Poet's Corner, Fiera Lingue. Images should >> be on Jpeg format. As this promises to be a very interesting project, we >> request that you send up to five of the most uncompromising and >> stylistically surprising of your works and a short bio. Other works that do >> not necessarily focus on the 2008 US elections but are relevant to the >> dialogue between art and democratic politics will be considered. * >> >> *Submissions are to be made electronically to: Obododimma Oha (Guest >> Editor) obodooha@gmail.com , udude@full-moon.com * >> >> * * >> >> *OR * >> >> * * >> >> *Anny Ballardini (Editor, The Poet's Corner)* >> >> *anny.ballardini@gmail.com* >> >> *Link to the main index of the site:* >> >> *http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=Content* >> >> * * >> >> *------------------------------- * >> >> * * >> >> *Election Day, November 1884* *from Leaves of Grass by Walt Whitman >> (1892)* >> >> >> If I should need to name, O Western World, your powerfulest scene and >> show, >> 'Twould not be you, Niagara?nor you, ye limitless prairies?nor your huge >> rifts of canyons, Colorado, >> Nor you, Yosemite?nor Yellowstone, with all its spasmic geyserloops >> ascending to the skies, appearing and disappearing, >> Nor Oregon's white cones?nor Huron's belt of mighty lakes?nor >> Mississippi's stream: >> ?This seething hemisphere's humanity, as now, I'd name?the still small >> voice vibrating?America's choosing day, >> (The heart of it not in the chosen?the act itself the main, the >> quadrennial choosing,) >> The stretch of North and South arous'd-sea-board and inland-Texas to >> Maine?the Prairie States?Vermont, Virginia, California, >> The final ballot-shower from East to West?the paradox and conflict, >> The countless snow-flakes falling?(a swordless conflict, >> Yet more than all Rome's wars of old, or modern Napoleon's:) the peaceful >> choice of all, >> Or good or ill humanity?welcoming the darker odds, the dross: >> ?Foams and ferments the wine? it serves to purify?while the heart pants, >> life glows: >> These stormy gusts and winds waft precious ships, >> Swell'd Washington's, Jefferson's, Lincoln's sails. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> Anny Ballardini >> http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ >> http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome >> http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html >> I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing >> star! >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081107/2f8b3642/attachment.html From rog3r.day at gmail.com Fri Nov 7 04:14:51 2008 From: rog3r.day at gmail.com (Roger Day) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:26 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Picking Pinsky for a Roethke Award In-Reply-To: <49136B44.1090602@opus40.org> References: <8CB0E5E9BA6B235-900-5C@WEBMAIL-MC07.sysops.aol.com> <4b65c2d70811061200o4cfba3bfv85422d75644066db@mail.gmail.com> <49135EB1.50409@nut-n-but.net> <49136B44.1090602@opus40.org> Message-ID: isn't it Roethk-er? On 11/6/08, TheOldMole wrote: > Their names both end with the same vowel sound. > > Bob Grumman wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > Given the fact University of Massachusetts English professor > > > Lloyd Schwartz reads 40 to 50 new books of poetry each year, it > > > must have been a tough job, then, to pick Robert Pinsky's "Gulf > > > Music" as the winner of the 11th Theodore Roethke Memorial Poetry > > > Award. > > > > > > > > Aside from the fact that Pinsky surely has gotten enough awards, what in > the world does his poetry have to do with Roethke's? > > > > --The Grump > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > > -- > Tad Richards > http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ > http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ > > Don't forget to order your copy of FILM NOIR! > http://stores.lulu.com/store.php?fAcctID=2712239 > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- My Stuff: http://www.badstep.net/ "I began to warm and chill to objects and their fields" Nick Cave & The Bad Seeds From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Fri Nov 7 06:00:38 2008 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:26 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Call for Submissions: Poetic Responses to the 2008American Elections In-Reply-To: <648208b60811061733w5a18979aud154f01b57c0c3ab@mail.gmail.com> References: <428270.52745.qm@web54410.mail.yahoo.com><4b65c2d70811051023x4ac30c29k2962f21cf262df81@mail.gmail.com> <648208b60811061733w5a18979aud154f01b57c0c3ab@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <49141FD6.4040408@nut-n-but.net> Right, Walt--the Grand Canyon is nothing compared with the miracle of millions of morons voting to pick which of two opportunistic halfwits two small groups the power-hungry mediocrities have decided will front their rule of the surface of things, while the people who count are hiding as best they can from them, doing science and art. --Bob G. From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Fri Nov 7 06:12:04 2008 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:26 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Poetic Justice In-Reply-To: <114934.95561.qm@web54107.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <1249.79872.qm@web54101.mail.re2.yahoo.com><4912DB8D.1040009@nut-n-but.net> <114934.95561.qm@web54107.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <49142284.70909@nut-n-but.net> John Jeffrey wrote: > Bob, > > Maybe that is all it has going for it, a "wittilly self-demoting > observation". I don't mind. It's funny, and I like that. And I like > "soured," and I like that the guy didn't realize that the set was off > until "hours" went by. Also, I chose to keep the meter standard > because in this type of poem, it's expected (you're cringing at that > comment, aren't you?) Not at all. A poem needs lots of expectednesses. Too many poets, though, compose as though unaware that a poem with no unexpectednesses is worthless. > and in such a short piece any excessive break in the meter would seem > too jarring. It would overwhelm the poor little thing. > > Too, I like the fact that many people, when they hear the title, > settle in to nod and laugh at such an easy target: reality > television. Everyone seems to agree that it's "awful...Oh, it's > mindless...drivel...I'd rather stare at the wall..." Over and over. > Yet, those sentiments are frequently followed with a sheepish, "though > I'll admit I do watch...[Amer Idol, Survivor, Dancing whatever, > Cooking whatever, insert here]. So I like that the poem points the > finger not the shows but at us, since there would be no such shows > without a willing audience. And I don't much mind that lots of folk > miss the simple point and laugh simply because the character in the > poem is staring at a blank tv set and doesn't realize it's off. > That's makes me chuckle. (I also like the two-mirror idea of the guy > sitting there, bored, watching a guy sitting there bored, watching a > guy sitting there...but that's just me forcing something into the poem > that I don't really explore.) > > I wasn't going for much more than that, a laugh, maybe a little a-ha > moment. Oh, and yes, I also like that it is crafted and metrical and > rhymes and... I'm sure that makes many tut-tut in head-shaking pity. > Then again, it is just a little quatrain of light verse. > Lastly, yes, I'd imagine that we're on the different sides of the > poetry fence. But so what? We're still neighbors, and I may need to > borrow some sugar someday. Sorry, I don't use sugar. Just kidding. It's salt I'd not be able to lend you. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081107/d3bc41cf/attachment.html From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Fri Nov 7 06:15:00 2008 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:26 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Picking Pinsky for a Roethke Award In-Reply-To: References: <8CB0E5E9BA6B235-900-5C@WEBMAIL-MC07.sysops.aol.com><4b65c2d70811061200o4cfba3bfv85422d75644066db@mail.gmail.com><491 35EB1.50409@nut-n-but.net> <49136B44.1090602@opus40.org> Message-ID: <49142334.2090301@nut-n-but.net> Roger Day wrote: > isn't it Roethk-er? Various people claiming to know have given me different pronunciations. Mine is REHTH key. I never heard the "er" pronuciation. --Bob G. From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Fri Nov 7 07:01:02 2008 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:26 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Call for Submissions: Poetic Responses to the 2008American Elections In-Reply-To: <49141FD6.4040408@nut-n-but.net> References: <428270.52745.qm@web54410.mail.yahoo.com> <4b65c2d70811051023x4ac30c29k2962f21cf262df81@mail.gmail.com> <648208b60811061733w5a18979aud154f01b57c0c3ab@mail.gmail.com> <49141FD6.4040408@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <4b65c2d70811070401t9cf4398x60be9b11f45ba454@mail.gmail.com> Please Bob, put this in "poetic" OneWord or SeveralWord Form and send it over that it will be forwarded straight to the Corner! I'll be waiting. On Fri, Nov 7, 2008 at 12:00 PM, Bob Grumman wrote: > Right, Walt--the Grand Canyon is nothing compared with the miracle of > millions of morons voting to pick which of two opportunistic halfwits two > small groups the power-hungry mediocrities have decided will front their > rule of the surface of things, while the people who count are hiding as best > they can from them, doing science and art. > > --Bob G. > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081107/09032a31/attachment.html From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Fri Nov 7 07:02:27 2008 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:26 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Picking Pinsky for a Roethke Award In-Reply-To: <49142334.2090301@nut-n-but.net> References: <8CB0E5E9BA6B235-900-5C@WEBMAIL-MC07.sysops.aol.com> <4b65c2d70811061200o4cfba3bfv85422d75644066db@mail.gmail.com> <49136B44.1090602@opus40.org> <49142334.2090301@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <4b65c2d70811070402q68b41b93q7f0c05321e3534bc@mail.gmail.com> I have my own, in the German way, the surname seems from German origins, or? On Fri, Nov 7, 2008 at 12:15 PM, Bob Grumman wrote: > Roger Day wrote: > >> isn't it Roethk-er? >> > Various people claiming to know have given me different pronunciations. > Mine is REHTH key. I never heard the "er" pronuciation. > > --Bob G. > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081107/0b2f7d44/attachment.html From Opus40-01 at opus40.org Fri Nov 7 08:26:13 2008 From: Opus40-01 at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:26 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Picking Pinsky for a Roethke Award In-Reply-To: <49142334.2090301@nut-n-but.net> References: <8CB0E5E9BA6B235-900-5C@WEBMAIL-MC07.sysops.aol.com><4b65c2d70811061200o4cfba3bfv85422d75644066db@mail.gmail.com><491 35EB1.50409@nut-n-but.net> <49136B44.1090602@opus40.org> <49142334.2090301@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <491441F5.9010207@opus40.org> Yeah, but I was thinking Pinsker. Bob Grumman wrote: > Roger Day wrote: >> isn't it Roethk-er? > Various people claiming to know have given me different > pronunciations. Mine is REHTH key. I never heard the "er" pronuciation. > > --Bob G. > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ Don't forget to order your copy of FILM NOIR! http://stores.lulu.com/store.php?fAcctID=2712239 From Opus40-01 at opus40.org Fri Nov 7 08:27:43 2008 From: Opus40-01 at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:26 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Picking Pinsky for a Roethke Award In-Reply-To: <4b65c2d70811070402q68b41b93q7f0c05321e3534bc@mail.gmail.com> References: <8CB0E5E9BA6B235-900-5C@WEBMAIL-MC07.sysops.aol.com> <4b65c2d70811061200o4cfba3bfv85422d75644066db@mail.gmail.com> <49136B44.1090602@opus40.org> <49142334.2090301@nut-n-but.net> <4b65c2d70811070402q68b41b93q7f0c05321e3534bc@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4914424F.8010009@opus40.org> German pronunciation would end with a sort of shwa, right? Anny Ballardini wrote: > I have my own, in the German way, the surname seems from German > origins, or? > > On Fri, Nov 7, 2008 at 12:15 PM, Bob Grumman > wrote: > > Roger Day wrote: > > isn't it Roethk-er? > > Various people claiming to know have given me different > pronunciations. Mine is REHTH key. I never heard the "er" > pronuciation. > > --Bob G. > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > -- > Anny Ballardini > http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ > http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome > http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html > I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a > dancing star! > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ Don't forget to order your copy of FILM NOIR! http://stores.lulu.com/store.php?fAcctID=2712239 From grahamd at ripon.edu Fri Nov 7 09:08:04 2008 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:27 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Pronouncing Roethke In-Reply-To: <4914424F.8010009@opus40.org> References: <8CB0E5E9BA6B235-900-5C@WEBMAIL-MC07.sysops.aol.com> <4b65c2d70811061200o4cfba3bfv85422d75644066db@mail.gmail.com> <49136B44.1090602@opus40.org> <49142334.2090301@nut-n-but.net> <4b65c2d70811070402q68b41b93q7f0c05321e3534bc@mail.gmail.com> <4914424F.8010009@opus40.org> Message-ID: <0FD7411E-E7B1-40A0-81BA-536655BB1191@ripon.edu> Roethke's name is pronounced "RETT-key," which I know because I have heard it from the lips of several of his former students and poets who knew him. ======================================== David Graham grahamd@ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.mac.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== On Nov 7, 2008, at 7:27 AM, TheOldMole wrote: > German pronunciation would end with a sort of shwa, right? > > Anny Ballardini wrote: >> I have my own, in the German way, the surname seems from German >> origins, or? >> >> On Fri, Nov 7, 2008 at 12:15 PM, Bob Grumman > but.net > wrote: >> >> Roger Day wrote: >> >> isn't it Roethk-er? >> >> Various people claiming to know have given me different >> pronunciations. Mine is REHTH key. I never heard the "er" >> pronuciation. >> >> --Bob G. >> >> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081107/d9a38169/attachment.html From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Fri Nov 7 09:48:31 2008 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:27 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Picking Pinsky for a Roethke Award In-Reply-To: <4914424F.8010009@opus40.org> References: <8CB0E5E9BA6B235-900-5C@WEBMAIL-MC07.sysops.aol.com> <4b65c2d70811061200o4cfba3bfv85422d75644066db@mail.gmail.com> <49136B44.1090602@opus40.org> <49142334.2090301@nut-n-but.net> <4b65c2d70811070402q68b41b93q7f0c05321e3534bc@mail.gmail.com> <4914424F.8010009@opus40.org> Message-ID: <4b65c2d70811070648k7e7b007dy94d8954976bd9b8e@mail.gmail.com> Something like ante- that sort of (ae) at the end see ante-litteram On Fri, Nov 7, 2008 at 2:27 PM, TheOldMole wrote: > German pronunciation would end with a sort of shwa, right? > > Anny Ballardini wrote: > >> I have my own, in the German way, the surname seems from German origins, >> or? >> >> On Fri, Nov 7, 2008 at 12:15 PM, Bob Grumman > bobgrumman@nut-n-but.net>> wrote: >> >> Roger Day wrote: >> >> isn't it Roethk-er? >> >> Various people claiming to know have given me different >> pronunciations. Mine is REHTH key. I never heard the "er" >> pronuciation. >> >> --Bob G. >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> >> >> >> -- >> Anny Ballardini >> http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ >> http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome >> http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html >> I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing >> star! >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > > -- > Tad Richards > http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ > http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ > > Don't forget to order your copy of FILM NOIR! > http://stores.lulu.com/store.php?fAcctID=2712239 > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081107/6f1c6b66/attachment.html From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Fri Nov 7 09:50:04 2008 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:27 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Pronouncing Roethke In-Reply-To: <0FD7411E-E7B1-40A0-81BA-536655BB1191@ripon.edu> References: <8CB0E5E9BA6B235-900-5C@WEBMAIL-MC07.sysops.aol.com> <4b65c2d70811061200o4cfba3bfv85422d75644066db@mail.gmail.com> <49136B44.1090602@opus40.org> <49142334.2090301@nut-n-but.net> <4b65c2d70811070402q68b41b93q7f0c05321e3534bc@mail.gmail.com> <4914424F.8010009@opus40.org> <0FD7411E-E7B1-40A0-81BA-536655BB1191@ripon.edu> Message-ID: <4b65c2d70811070650i2e25d90j7d0001c88603ef40@mail.gmail.com> Thanks, now I know. On Fri, Nov 7, 2008 at 3:08 PM, David Graham wrote: > Roethke's name is pronounced "RETT-key," which I know because I have heard > it from the lips of several of his former students and poets who knew him. > > > ======================================== > David Graham > grahamd@ripon.edu > > Home Page: > http://web.mac.com/drjazz > > Poetry Library: > http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html > ========================================== > > > > > On Nov 7, 2008, at 7:27 AM, TheOldMole wrote: > > German pronunciation would end with a sort of shwa, right? > > Anny Ballardini wrote: > > I have my own, in the German way, the surname seems from German origins, > or? > > On Fri, Nov 7, 2008 at 12:15 PM, Bob Grumman mailto:bobgrumman@nut-n-but.net >> wrote: > > Roger Day wrote: > > isn't it Roethk-er? > > Various people claiming to know have given me different > pronunciations. Mine is REHTH key. I never heard the "er" > pronuciation. > > --Bob G. > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081107/2bfc9742/attachment.html From millb at aol.com Fri Nov 7 09:57:36 2008 From: millb at aol.com (Millicent Accardi) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:27 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Pronouncing Roethke In-Reply-To: <4b65c2d70811070650i2e25d90j7d0001c88603ef40@mail.gmail.com> References: <8CB0E5E9BA6B235-900-5C@WEBMAIL-MC07.sysops.aol.com><4b65c2d70811061200o4cfba3bfv85422d75644066db@mail.gmail.com><49136B44.1090602@opus40.org><49142334.2090301@nut-n-but.net><4b65c2d70811070402q68b41b93q7f0c05321e3534bc@mail.gmail.com><4914424F.8010009@opus40.org><0FD7411E-E7B1-40A0-81BA-536655BB1191@ripon.edu> <4b65c2d70811070650i2e25d90j7d0001c88603ef40@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <8CB0F004E1F2700-DE8-80@WEBMAIL-DG12.sim.aol.com> In a book about pronouncing literary names that I rec'd back in college, it?states that Roethke was pronounced Rett-khuh. Is that incorrect? Cheers, Millicent Borges Accardi -----Original Message----- From: Anny Ballardini Sent: Fri, 7 Nov 2008 6:50 am Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Pronouncing Roethke Thanks, now I know. On Fri, Nov 7, 2008 at 3:08 PM, David Graham wrote: Roethke's name is pronounced "RETT-key," which I know because I have heard it from the lips of several of his former students and poets who knew him. ======================================== David Graham grahamd@ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.mac.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== On Nov 7, 2008, at 7:27 AM, TheOldMole wrote: German pronunciation would end with a sort of shwa, right? Anny Ballardini wrote: I have my own, in the German way, the surname seems from German origins, or? On Fri, Nov 7, 2008 at 12:15 PM, Bob Grumman > wrote: ? ? Roger Day wrote: ? ? ? ? isn't it Roethk-er? ? ? Various people claiming to know have given me different ? ? pronunciations.? Mine is REHTH key.? I never heard the "er" ? ? pronuciation. ? ? --Bob G. _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081107/569ab862/attachment.html From jeff.newberry at gmail.com Fri Nov 7 11:13:03 2008 From: jeff.newberry at gmail.com (Jeff Newberry) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:27 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Derek Walcott Message-ID: <731bb17a0811070813j67457a30s67fe8a0a49353d9e@mail.gmail.com> As a teacher, Derek Walcott insisted on "the importance of the shape that you make out of a poem. That makes me a dinosaur, an old fogey. And why should I care? I always cite something that Pasternak said: 'Great poets have no time to be original.'" Imitation, he believes, "is not only a form of flattery, but is in a way creation. No two things are going to be alike. Whatever you bring to the craft is going to be individualistic." http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2008/oct/04/poetry.derekwalcott Jeff Newberry -- Blog: http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081107/aaf0fcad/attachment.html From rewatlingjr at comcast.net Fri Nov 7 12:21:43 2008 From: rewatlingjr at comcast.net (robert e. watling jr.) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:27 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Pronouncing Roethke In-Reply-To: <8CB0F004E1F2700-DE8-80@WEBMAIL-DG12.sim.aol.com> References: <8CB0E5E9BA6B235-900-5C@WEBMAIL-MC07.sysops.aol.com> <4b65c2d70811061200o4cfba3bfv85422d75644066db@mail.gmail.com> <49136B44.1090602@opus40.org> <49142334.2090301@nut-n-but.net> <4b65c2d70811070402q68b41b93q7f0c05321e3534bc@mail.gmail.com> <4914424F.8010009@opus40.org> <0FD7411E-E7B1-40A0-81BA-536655BB1191@ripon.edu> <4b65c2d70811070650i2e25d90j7d0001c88603ef40@mail.gmail.com> <8CB0F004E1F2700-DE8-80@WEBMAIL-DG12.sim.aol.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 07 Nov 2008 06:57:36 -0800, Millicent Accardi wrote: > In a book about pronouncing literary names that I rec'd back in college, > it states that Roethke was pronounced Rett-khuh. > > Is that incorrect? > > Cheers, > > Millicent Borges Accardi If you go here you can hear him pronounce it himself. http://www.poetryfoundation.org/journal/audioitem.html?id=613 Robert -- "Cogito ergo...how does that go again?"...rewjr. From jbalizsprince at googlemail.com Fri Nov 7 12:53:43 2008 From: jbalizsprince at googlemail.com (Judy Prince) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:27 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Poetic Justice In-Reply-To: <49142284.70909@nut-n-but.net> References: <1249.79872.qm@web54101.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <4912DB8D.1040009@nut-n-but.net> <114934.95561.qm@web54107.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <49142284.70909@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <7db1d01b0811070953n6786c827k3ee8e59766cd21f9@mail.gmail.com> There you go, then, John. Despite your not needing to respond or defend your lovely poem against the GrumbleMan's attack, you done done it. A simple "sod off" would've sufficed [what someone recently responded to my attack and made me laugh, makes me laugh everytime I think of it]. So now you've racked up two occasions of explaining poetry on NP, and neither was necessary. Perhaps, since only GrumbleMan registers reactions to poems brought to the site, and his reactions are useless, you could hop over to POETRYETC where 3 people would respond benignly and unhelpfully. I don't get why these two poetrylists [never been on another] seem not to care about alive, current, contributing poets' works. Maybe it's because the listmembers have another agenda, or radically different expectations for what they want a poetrylist to do. Re NP, it seems the main function is highly delete-able announcements of which poet won which award. Here's my take on your poem: I cherish it. It helped me see my own recent follies and stupidities [some of them, anyway], and to chuckle at m'sel', knowing---bcuz of the poem---that I'm not alone in my 'sour' presentation of life, my own counterproductive makings of my own life. Pardon me for what I'm about to say, but: FUCK the phrase 'light verse'. Like 'light pregnancy' or 'casualties', I don't buy it as an apt descriptor. Here's the Judy Theory of HaHa: Shaksper couldn't do HaHa. She tried so hard, so often, but just couldnae pull it off. Other females have done really great HaHa: Roseanne Barr, Mae West, Dorothy Parker, and many of the mothers of male stand-up comedians who tell how their comedy came from their mom. My fave on POETRYETC for HaHa is Patrick McManus who has managed for as long as I've been on the list [4 years] to come up with a HaHa poem every Wednesday, whose poetry pamphlet, brilliant and brilliantly illustrated [by me, natch] still, after hundreds of my readings, makes me laugh out loud continuously. Most of his work has that sweet edge of self-mockery, and is lovely surprising. HaHa goes beyond 'tragedy' or 'serious' or whatever word one would posit for the opposite of HaHa. It requires the unity of all a person's faculties. It needs more than brain and heart. It operates at an upper atmosphere, whilst unHaHa operates within the gut, heart, and ground. HaHa sees over our heads and brings its knowings down to us for healing. We will respect a non-HaHa writer's works, but we will love a HaHa writer. I love you, HaHa writer. Don't take it personally, though, as I love lotsa folk, most often when they HaHa. Would a smiley face fit here as my closing? Yeah, definitely: ;-) Judy 2008/11/7 Bob Grumman > John Jeffrey wrote: > > Bob, > > Maybe that is all it has going for it, a "wittilly self-demoting > observation". I don't mind. It's funny, and I like that. And I like > "soured," and I like that the guy didn't realize that the set was off until > "hours" went by. Also, I chose to keep the meter standard because in this > type of poem, it's expected (you're cringing at that comment, aren't you?) > > Not at all. A poem needs lots of expectednesses. Too many poets, though, > compose as though unaware that a poem with no unexpectednesses is worthless. > > > and in such a short piece any excessive break in the meter would seem too > jarring. It would overwhelm the poor little thing. > > Too, I like the fact that many people, when they hear the title, settle in > to nod and laugh at such an easy target: reality television. Everyone > seems to agree that it's "awful...Oh, it's mindless...drivel...I'd rather > stare at the wall..." Over and over. Yet, those sentiments are frequently > followed with a sheepish, "though I'll admit I do watch...[Amer Idol, > Survivor, Dancing whatever, Cooking whatever, insert here]. So I like that > the poem points the finger not the shows but at us, since there would be no > such shows without a willing audience. And I don't much mind that lots of > folk miss the simple point and laugh simply because the character in the > poem is staring at a blank tv set and doesn't realize it's off. That's > makes me chuckle. (I also like the two-mirror idea of the guy sitting > there, bored, watching a guy sitting there bored, watching a guy sitting > there...but that's just me forcing something into the poem that I don't > really explore.) > > I wasn't going for much more than that, a laugh, maybe a little a-ha > moment. Oh, and yes, I also like that it is crafted and metrical and rhymes > and... I'm sure that makes many tut-tut in head-shaking pity. Then again, > it is just a little quatrain of light verse. > > > Lastly, yes, I'd imagine that we're on the different sides of the poetry > fence. But so what? We're still neighbors, and I may need to borrow some > sugar someday. > > Sorry, I don't use sugar. Just kidding. It's salt I'd not be able to lend > you. > > --Bob > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081107/d5fa923b/attachment.html From opus40-01 at opus40.org Fri Nov 7 13:00:04 2008 From: opus40-01 at opus40.org (opus40-01@opus40.org) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:27 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Derek Walcott Message-ID: <380-2200811571804476@M2W042.mail2web.com> Jeff -- I think there's a lot to be said for Pasternak's point of view. Original Message: ----------------- From: Jeff Newberry jeff.newberry@gmail.com Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2008 11:13:03 -0500 To: new-poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu Subject: [New-Poetry] Derek Walcott As a teacher, Derek Walcott insisted on "the importance of the shape that you make out of a poem. That makes me a dinosaur, an old fogey. And why should I care? I always cite something that Pasternak said: 'Great poets have no time to be original.'" Imitation, he believes, "is not only a form of flattery, but is in a way creation. No two things are going to be alike. Whatever you bring to the craft is going to be individualistic." http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2008/oct/04/poetry.derekwalcott Jeff Newberry -- Blog: http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web.com ? What can On Demand Business Solutions do for you? http://link.mail2web.com/Business/SharePoint From opus40-01 at opus40.org Fri Nov 7 13:07:42 2008 From: opus40-01 at opus40.org (opus40-01@opus40.org) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:27 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Poetic Justice Message-ID: <380-22008115718742789@M2W014.mail2web.com> Judy -- I don't believe anyone here doesn't care about living, posting poets. I know I do. Theory behind NewPo was, however, that there are lots of places on the web where one can post poetry for critique, relatively few where one can talk shop and discuss issues relating to contemporary poetry. Our godfather, JforJames, requested that people post no more than 3 original poems per month, and we've all kinda honored that, though nothing bad would happen to someone who overstepped the limit (I think I might have, once or twice). I would love to find a small, private online group for posting and critiquing -- I see the value in open lists or forums, but it's just not for me. Original Message: ----------------- From: Judy Prince jbalizsprince@googlemail.com Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2008 12:53:43 -0500 To: new-poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Re: Poetic Justice There you go, then, John. Despite your not needing to respond or defend your lovely poem against the GrumbleMan's attack, you done done it. A simple "sod off" would've sufficed [what someone recently responded to my attack and made me laugh, makes me laugh everytime I think of it]. So now you've racked up two occasions of explaining poetry on NP, and neither was necessary. Perhaps, since only GrumbleMan registers reactions to poems brought to the site, and his reactions are useless, you could hop over to POETRYETC where 3 people would respond benignly and unhelpfully. I don't get why these two poetrylists [never been on another] seem not to care about alive, current, contributing poets' works. Maybe it's because the listmembers have another agenda, or radically different expectations for what they want a poetrylist to do. Re NP, it seems the main function is highly delete-able announcements of which poet won which award. Here's my take on your poem: I cherish it. It helped me see my own recent follies and stupidities [some of them, anyway], and to chuckle at m'sel', knowing---bcuz of the poem---that I'm not alone in my 'sour' presentation of life, my own counterproductive makings of my own life. Pardon me for what I'm about to say, but: FUCK the phrase 'light verse'. Like 'light pregnancy' or 'casualties', I don't buy it as an apt descriptor. Here's the Judy Theory of HaHa: Shaksper couldn't do HaHa. She tried so hard, so often, but just couldnae pull it off. Other females have done really great HaHa: Roseanne Barr, Mae West, Dorothy Parker, and many of the mothers of male stand-up comedians who tell how their comedy came from their mom. My fave on POETRYETC for HaHa is Patrick McManus who has managed for as long as I've been on the list [4 years] to come up with a HaHa poem every Wednesday, whose poetry pamphlet, brilliant and brilliantly illustrated [by me, natch] still, after hundreds of my readings, makes me laugh out loud continuously. Most of his work has that sweet edge of self-mockery, and is lovely surprising. HaHa goes beyond 'tragedy' or 'serious' or whatever word one would posit for the opposite of HaHa. It requires the unity of all a person's faculties. It needs more than brain and heart. It operates at an upper atmosphere, whilst unHaHa operates within the gut, heart, and ground. HaHa sees over our heads and brings its knowings down to us for healing. We will respect a non-HaHa writer's works, but we will love a HaHa writer. I love you, HaHa writer. Don't take it personally, though, as I love lotsa folk, most often when they HaHa. Would a smiley face fit here as my closing? Yeah, definitely: ;-) Judy 2008/11/7 Bob Grumman > John Jeffrey wrote: > > Bob, > > Maybe that is all it has going for it, a "wittilly self-demoting > observation". I don't mind. It's funny, and I like that. And I like > "soured," and I like that the guy didn't realize that the set was off until > "hours" went by. Also, I chose to keep the meter standard because in this > type of poem, it's expected (you're cringing at that comment, aren't you?) > > Not at all. A poem needs lots of expectednesses. Too many poets, though, > compose as though unaware that a poem with no unexpectednesses is worthless. > > > and in such a short piece any excessive break in the meter would seem too > jarring. It would overwhelm the poor little thing. > > Too, I like the fact that many people, when they hear the title, settle in > to nod and laugh at such an easy target: reality television. Everyone > seems to agree that it's "awful...Oh, it's mindless...drivel...I'd rather > stare at the wall..." Over and over. Yet, those sentiments are frequently > followed with a sheepish, "though I'll admit I do watch...[Amer Idol, > Survivor, Dancing whatever, Cooking whatever, insert here]. So I like that > the poem points the finger not the shows but at us, since there would be no > such shows without a willing audience. And I don't much mind that lots of > folk miss the simple point and laugh simply because the character in the > poem is staring at a blank tv set and doesn't realize it's off. That's > makes me chuckle. (I also like the two-mirror idea of the guy sitting > there, bored, watching a guy sitting there bored, watching a guy sitting > there...but that's just me forcing something into the poem that I don't > really explore.) > > I wasn't going for much more than that, a laugh, maybe a little a-ha > moment. Oh, and yes, I also like that it is crafted and metrical and rhymes > and... I'm sure that makes many tut-tut in head-shaking pity. Then again, > it is just a little quatrain of light verse. > > > Lastly, yes, I'd imagine that we're on the different sides of the poetry > fence. But so what? We're still neighbors, and I may need to borrow some > sugar someday. > > Sorry, I don't use sugar. Just kidding. It's salt I'd not be able to lend > you. > > --Bob > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web.com - Microsoft? Exchange solutions from a leading provider - http://link.mail2web.com/Business/Exchange From jbalizsprince at googlemail.com Fri Nov 7 13:41:24 2008 From: jbalizsprince at googlemail.com (Judy Prince) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:27 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Poetic Justice In-Reply-To: <380-22008115718742789@M2W014.mail2web.com> References: <380-22008115718742789@M2W014.mail2web.com> Message-ID: <7db1d01b0811071041k20233254pf725ef6ef8ead2f5@mail.gmail.com> Thanks, opus 40-01, though I'm suspicious of someone who cannot be addressed with a people name. I didnae know the history of NP nor that it had a godfather who calls himself 'j for james'. Further, I don't know the many sites one can post poems for critiques, and I'm not sure I'd want to throw poems at a mass of folk who don't talk about life like normal people do. I want to get an idea about their personalities and character, not just their poetry. And I DO want to benefit from practicing poets' understandings of dead poets as well as their explanations and views on the workings of poetry. POETRYETC folk do these things, and they've helped me immeasurably in better understanding how to write and read poetry and plays. On POETRYETC some of us post poems, especially on Wednesdays on what is called SNAP day. I also like that we're not mostly USAmericans [which's what I am], so I can learn a bit about attitudes other than those I'm used to. I joined NP because Robin Hamilton suggested both POETRYETC and NP, and he has an uncanny track record of good advice. May I call you Opie? [yeah, just kidding] Best, J486022& 2008/11/7 opus40-01@opus40.org > Judy -- I don't believe anyone here doesn't care about living, posting > poets. I know I do. Theory behind NewPo was, however, that there are lots > of places on the web where one can post poetry for critique, relatively few > where one can talk shop and discuss issues relating to contemporary poetry. > > Our godfather, JforJames, requested that people post no more than 3 > original poems per month, and we've all kinda honored that, though nothing > bad would happen to someone who overstepped the limit (I think I might > have, once or twice). > > I would love to find a small, private online group for posting and > critiquing -- I see the value in open lists or forums, but it's just not > for me. > > Original Message: > ----------------- > From: Judy Prince jbalizsprince@googlemail.com > Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2008 12:53:43 -0500 > To: new-poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Re: Poetic Justice > > > There you go, then, John. Despite your not needing to respond or defend > your lovely poem against the GrumbleMan's attack, you done done it. A > simple "sod off" would've sufficed [what someone recently responded to my > attack and made me laugh, makes me laugh everytime I think of it]. So now > you've racked up two occasions of explaining poetry on NP, and neither was > necessary. > Perhaps, since only GrumbleMan registers reactions to poems brought to the > site, and his reactions are useless, you could hop over to POETRYETC where > 3 > people would respond benignly and unhelpfully. > > I don't get why these two poetrylists [never been on another] seem not to > care about alive, current, contributing poets' works. > > Maybe it's because the listmembers have another agenda, or radically > different expectations for what they want a poetrylist to do. Re NP, it > seems the main function is highly delete-able announcements of which poet > won which award. > > Here's my take on your poem: I cherish it. It helped me see my own recent > follies and stupidities [some of them, anyway], and to chuckle at m'sel', > knowing---bcuz of the poem---that I'm not alone in my 'sour' presentation > of > life, my own counterproductive makings of my own life. > > Pardon me for what I'm about to say, but: FUCK the phrase 'light verse'. > Like 'light pregnancy' or 'casualties', I don't buy it as an apt > descriptor. > > Here's the Judy Theory of HaHa: > > Shaksper couldn't do HaHa. She tried so hard, so often, but just couldnae > pull it off. > > Other females have done really great HaHa: Roseanne Barr, Mae West, > Dorothy > Parker, and many of the mothers of male stand-up comedians who tell how > their comedy came from their mom. > > My fave on POETRYETC for HaHa is Patrick McManus who has managed for as > long > as I've been on the list [4 years] to come up with a HaHa poem every > Wednesday, whose poetry pamphlet, brilliant and brilliantly illustrated [by > me, natch] still, after hundreds of my readings, makes me laugh out loud > continuously. Most of his work has that sweet edge of self-mockery, and is > lovely surprising. > > HaHa goes beyond 'tragedy' or 'serious' or whatever word one would posit > for > the opposite of HaHa. It requires the unity of all a person's faculties. > It needs more than brain and heart. It operates at an upper atmosphere, > whilst unHaHa operates within the gut, heart, and ground. > > HaHa sees over our heads and brings its knowings down to us for healing. > We > will respect a non-HaHa writer's works, but we will love a HaHa writer. > > I love you, HaHa writer. Don't take it personally, though, as I love lotsa > folk, most often when they HaHa. Would a smiley face fit here as my > closing? Yeah, definitely: ;-) > > Judy > > > > 2008/11/7 Bob Grumman > > > John Jeffrey wrote: > > > > Bob, > > > > Maybe that is all it has going for it, a "wittilly self-demoting > > observation". I don't mind. It's funny, and I like that. And I like > > "soured," and I like that the guy didn't realize that the set was off > until > > "hours" went by. Also, I chose to keep the meter standard because in > this > > type of poem, it's expected (you're cringing at that comment, aren't > you?) > > > > Not at all. A poem needs lots of expectednesses. Too many poets, > though, > > compose as though unaware that a poem with no unexpectednesses is > worthless. > > > > > > and in such a short piece any excessive break in the meter would seem > too > > jarring. It would overwhelm the poor little thing. > > > > Too, I like the fact that many people, when they hear the title, settle > in > > to nod and laugh at such an easy target: reality television. Everyone > > seems to agree that it's "awful...Oh, it's mindless...drivel...I'd rather > > stare at the wall..." Over and over. Yet, those sentiments are > frequently > > followed with a sheepish, "though I'll admit I do watch...[Amer Idol, > > Survivor, Dancing whatever, Cooking whatever, insert here]. So I like > that > > the poem points the finger not the shows but at us, since there would be > no > > such shows without a willing audience. And I don't much mind that lots > of > > folk miss the simple point and laugh simply because the character in the > > poem is staring at a blank tv set and doesn't realize it's off. That's > > makes me chuckle. (I also like the two-mirror idea of the guy sitting > > there, bored, watching a guy sitting there bored, watching a guy sitting > > there...but that's just me forcing something into the poem that I don't > > really explore.) > > > > I wasn't going for much more than that, a laugh, maybe a little a-ha > > moment. Oh, and yes, I also like that it is crafted and metrical and > rhymes > > and... I'm sure that makes many tut-tut in head-shaking pity. Then > again, > > it is just a little quatrain of light verse. > > > > > > Lastly, yes, I'd imagine that we're on the different sides of the poetry > > fence. But so what? We're still neighbors, and I may need to borrow > some > > sugar someday. > > > > Sorry, I don't use sugar. Just kidding. It's salt I'd not be able to > lend > > you. > > > > --Bob > > > > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > mail2web.com - Microsoft(R) Exchange solutions from a leading provider - > http://link.mail2web.com/Business/Exchange > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081107/5f9626eb/attachment.html From rog3r.day at gmail.com Fri Nov 7 13:51:13 2008 From: rog3r.day at gmail.com (Roger Day) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:27 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Pronouncing Roethke In-Reply-To: References: <8CB0E5E9BA6B235-900-5C@WEBMAIL-MC07.sysops.aol.com> <49136B44.1090602@opus40.org> <49142334.2090301@nut-n-but.net> <4b65c2d70811070402q68b41b93q7f0c05321e3534bc@mail.gmail.com> <4914424F.8010009@opus40.org> <0FD7411E-E7B1-40A0-81BA-536655BB1191@ripon.edu> <4b65c2d70811070650i2e25d90j7d0001c88603ef40@mail.gmail.com> <8CB0F004E1F2700-DE8-80@WEBMAIL-DG12.sim.aol.com> Message-ID: RET-keh indeed. I think the German prononciation would be ker, which is why my ears pricked up when someone said key but I've no dog in this race. At least his father didn't change his name completely. Roger On Fri, Nov 7, 2008 at 5:21 PM, robert e. watling jr. wrote: > On Fri, 07 Nov 2008 06:57:36 -0800, Millicent Accardi wrote: > >> In a book about pronouncing literary names that I rec'd back in college, >> it states that Roethke was pronounced Rett-khuh. >> >> Is that incorrect? >> >> Cheers, >> >> Millicent Borges Accardi > > If you go here you can hear him pronounce it himself. > > http://www.poetryfoundation.org/journal/audioitem.html?id=613 > > Robert > > -- > "Cogito ergo...how does that go again?"...rewjr. > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- My Stuff: http://www.badstep.net/ "I began to warm and chill to objects and their fields" Nick Cave & The Bad Seeds From jforjames at aol.com Fri Nov 7 14:53:20 2008 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames@aol.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:28 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] confessions of a recovering poet Message-ID: <8CB0F299E733BD9-974-1168@MBLK-M04.sysops.aol.com> http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20081106.wpodfacts1106/BNStory/lifeMain/home?cid=al_gam_mostemail At the launch of my first book, there was no one I didn't recognize. At the launch of my second, there actually were. After a flicker of excitement, I realized that was only because a book of 100 poems about the numbers from 1 to 100 was so idiosyncratically perverse, it had drawn the curious. If the Canada Council for the Arts was serious about supporting this dubious art form, it would stop funding poets. Being addicted, they will write poetry anyway. The money should be used to subsidize people to attend readings and create what poetry really needs: an audience. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081107/3c21d533/attachment.html From alexdickow9 at yahoo.com Fri Nov 7 15:29:49 2008 From: alexdickow9 at yahoo.com (Alexander Dickow) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:28 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] poetryetc In-Reply-To: <200811071700.mA7H06nK025982@wiz.cath.vt.edu> Message-ID: <850547.83414.qm@web35503.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I keep hearing about this poetryetc group. What's it all about? And where does it come from? Anyone interesting on it? ;P No, sillies, Theodore Roethke is *spelled* Theodore Roethke, but it's *pronounced* Raymond Luxury Yacht. Amicalement, Alex From jjeffreymail at yahoo.com Fri Nov 7 15:54:29 2008 From: jjeffreymail at yahoo.com (John Jeffrey) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:28 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Pronouncing Roethke In-Reply-To: <0FD7411E-E7B1-40A0-81BA-536655BB1191@ripon.edu> Message-ID: <879564.90615.qm@web54104.mail.re2.yahoo.com> It always annoys me when a guy can't pronounce his own name.John J _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081107/0f4eb0db/attachment.html From grahamd at ripon.edu Fri Nov 7 15:55:34 2008 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:28 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] No time to be original In-Reply-To: <731bb17a0811070813j67457a30s67fe8a0a49353d9e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: I think that slavish imitation is, for most poets, a necessary phase of initiation. Not all young poets realize they they're doing it, but they pretty much all are. It wasn't until my first book was in print, actually, that I realized how Richard Hugo's fingerprints were all over most of its poems. *Worrying* about the anxiety of influence, on the other hand, is futile and, yes, a waste of time. It can lead to paralysis and other maladies. It might have been Donald Hall who remarked that the way to deal with the "threat" of being unduly influenced was to read as widely as possible, preferably among poets from earlier centuries. And I've always liked, and often quoted, Denise Levertov's remark that "originality is nothing else but the deepest honesty." On 11/7/08 10:13 AM, "Jeff Newberry" wrote: > As a teacher, Derek Walcott insisted on "the importance of the shape that you > make out of a poem. That makes me a dinosaur, an old fogey. And why should I > care? I always cite something that Pasternak said: 'Great poets have no time > to be original.'" Imitation, he believes, "is not only a form of flattery, but > is in a way creation. No two things are going to be alike. Whatever you bring > to the craft is going to be individualistic." > > http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2008/oct/04/poetry.derekwalcott > > > Jeff Newberry -- ==================================================== David Graham grahamd@ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/ Poetry Library: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ==================================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081107/1f9ab763/attachment.html From robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com Fri Nov 7 16:00:10 2008 From: robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com (Robin Hamilton) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:28 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] poetryetc In-Reply-To: <850547.83414.qm@web35503.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <850547.83414.qm@web35503.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Follows a link to poetryetc, both the archives, if you want to taste what's said, and a link to joining. http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/webadmin?A0=POETRYETC Robin ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alexander Dickow" To: Sent: Friday, November 07, 2008 8:29 PM Subject: [New-Poetry] poetryetc >I keep hearing about this poetryetc group. What's it all about? And where >does it come from? Anyone interesting on it? ;P From grahamd at ripon.edu Fri Nov 7 16:07:35 2008 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:28 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] In praise of Graywolf Press Message-ID: http://www.citypages.com/content/printVersion/628801 -- ==================================================== David Graham grahamd@ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/ Poetry Library: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ==================================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081107/93a91adb/attachment.html From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Fri Nov 7 16:21:07 2008 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:28 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Picking Pinsky for a Roethke Award In-Reply-To: <4b65c2d70811070402q68b41b93q7f0c05321e3534bc@mail.gmail.com> References: <8CB0E5E9BA6B235-900-5C@WEBMAIL-MC07.sysops.aol.com><4b65c2d70811061200o4cfba3bfv85422d75644066db@mail.gmail.com><491 36B44.1090602@opus40.org><49142334.2090301@nut-n-but.net> <4b65c2d70811070402q68b41b93q7f0c05321e3534bc@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4914B143.8080401@nut-n-but.net> Anny Ballardini wrote: > I have my own, in the German way, the surname seems from German > origins, or? Yes, Roethke was German. Correct pronunciation would be REHTH kuh, wouldn't it? But it may have been Americanized to REHTH key. (Will consider your solicitation of an election poem, Anny, but it will be hard to accept, the subject is so much my cup of urine.) --Bob From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Fri Nov 7 16:25:20 2008 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:28 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Pronouncing Roethke In-Reply-To: <4b65c2d70811070650i2e25d90j7d0001c88603ef40@mail.gmail.com> References: <8CB0E5E9BA6B235-900-5C@WEBMAIL-MC07.sysops.aol.com><4b65c2d70811061200o4cfba3bfv85422d75644066db@mail.gmail.com><491 36B44.1090602@opus40.org><49142334.2090301@nut-n-but.net><4b65c2d70 811070402q68b41b93q7f0c05321e3534bc@mail.gmail.com><4914424F.8010009@opus40.org><0FD7411E-E7B1-40A0-81BA-536655BB1191@ripon.edu > <4b65c2d70811070650i2e25d90j7d0001c88603ef40@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4914B240.8000606@nut-n-but.net> Anny Ballardini wrote: > Thanks, now I know. > > On Fri, Nov 7, 2008 at 3:08 PM, David Graham > wrote: > > Roethke's name is pronounced "RETT-key," which I know because I > have heard it from the lips of several of his former students and > poets who knew him. > Sounds right to me, too. I may have heard it that way from some of my authorities, but let the "h" confuse me. In any case, I'll go with REHT key--until Roethke's ghost tells me the really right pronunciation. --Bob G. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081107/c7ee8681/attachment.html From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Fri Nov 7 16:28:54 2008 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:28 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Pronouncing Roethke In-Reply-To: <8CB0F004E1F2700-DE8-80@WEBMAIL-DG12.sim.aol.com> References: <8CB0E5E9BA6B235-900-5C@WEBMAIL-MC07.sysops.aol.com><4b65c2d70811061200o4cfba3bfv85422d75644066db@mail.gmail.com><491 36B44.1090602@opus40.org><49142334.2090301@nut-n-but.net><4b65c2d70 811070402q68b41b93q7f0c05321e3534bc@mail.gmail.com><4914424F.8010009@opus40.org><0FD7411E-E7B1-40A0-81BA-536655BB1191@ripon.edu ><4b65c2d70811070650i2e25d90j7d0001c88603ef40@mail.gmail.com> <8CB0F004E1F2700-DE8-80@WEBMAIL-DG12.sim.aol.com> Message-ID: <4914B316.3000307@nut-n-but.net> Millicent Accardi wrote: > In a book about pronouncing literary names that I rec'd back in > college, it states that Roethke was pronounced Rett-khuh. > > Is that incorrect? > > Cheers, > > Millicent Borges Accardi > Ought oh. So soon after I accepted REHT key. --Bob. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081107/d36aaa11/attachment.html From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Fri Nov 7 16:33:54 2008 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:28 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Poetic Justice In-Reply-To: <7db1d01b0811070953n6786c827k3ee8e59766cd21f9@mail.gmail.com> References: <1249.79872.qm@web54101.mail.re2.yahoo.com><4912DB8D.1040009@nut-n-but.net><114934.95561.qm@web54107.mail.re2.yahoo.c om><49142284.70909@nut-n-but.net> <7db1d01b0811070953n6786c827k3ee8e59766cd21f9@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4914B442.3080401@nut-n-but.net> I didn't "attack" John's poem, Judy. the Grumbleman. From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Fri Nov 7 16:38:31 2008 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:28 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Derek Walcott In-Reply-To: <380-2200811571804476@M2W042.mail2web.com> References: <380-2200811571804476@M2W042.mail2web.com> Message-ID: <4914B557.9050808@nut-n-but.net> opus40-01@opus40.org wrote: > Jeff -- I think there's a lot to be said for Pasternak's point of view. I'd agree if he'd said you can be a great poet without being original. If you agree with him, logic forces you to believe that poets who have time to be original cannot be great poets. --Bob G. From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Fri Nov 7 16:51:16 2008 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:28 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] confessions of a recovering poet In-Reply-To: <8CB0F299E733BD9-974-1168@MBLK-M04.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CB0F299E733BD9-974-1168@MBLK-M04.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <4914B854.2070103@nut-n-but.net> jforjames@aol.com wrote: > http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20081106.wpodfacts1106/BNStory/lifeMain/home?cid=al_gam_mostemail > > At the launch of my first book, there was no one I didn't recognize. > At the launch of my second, there actually were. After a flicker of > excitement, I realized that was only because a book of 100 poems about > the numbers from 1 to 100 was so idiosyncratically perverse, it had > drawn the curious. > > If the Canada Council for the Arts was serious about supporting this > dubious art form, it would stop funding poets. Being addicted, they > will write poetry anyway. The money should be used to subsidize people > to attend readings and create what poetry really needs: an audience. I'm not sure how well that would work, but it'd be worth trying. They might also consider subsidizing poetry criticism. Or discussion of poets and poetry--something to get people talking about poetry the way they talk about television programs and movies. Something like what Kooser (and others?) are doing. Of course, I'd prefer some discussion of poems from places other than Wilshburia, but . . . maybe some day. Hey, could you imagine a program like American Idol (as I take it to be without ever seeing more than a minute or so of it) for POETS! Have a panel of judges like Logan, our own David Graham, and ME. OR: some kind of poets' survival show, where each of a group of poets recites or shows poems of his and says why they're good, and each week the audience votes one poet off the show. I bet I'd last more than a week if I were on such a show! --Bob G. From jbalizsprince at googlemail.com Fri Nov 7 16:51:00 2008 From: jbalizsprince at googlemail.com (Judy Prince) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:28 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Poetic Justice In-Reply-To: <4914B442.3080401@nut-n-but.net> References: <1249.79872.qm@web54101.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <4912DB8D.1040009@nut-n-but.net> <49142284.70909@nut-n-but.net> <7db1d01b0811070953n6786c827k3ee8e59766cd21f9@mail.gmail.com> <4914B442.3080401@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <7db1d01b0811071351q3b3ee167v42082eab4d1867dd@mail.gmail.com> Call me Aria417, GrumbleBob. I could get into this 'bot signature stuff. 2008/11/7 Bob Grumman > I didn't "attack" John's poem, Judy. > > the Grumbleman. > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081107/c022211f/attachment.html From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Fri Nov 7 16:54:48 2008 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:28 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] poetryetc In-Reply-To: <850547.83414.qm@web35503.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <200811071700.mA7H06nK025982@wiz.cath.vt.edu> <850547.83414.qm@web35503.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4b65c2d70811071354x6f19d094vf0759d73c4c6fe54@mail.gmail.com> Forget about it. Joseph Duemer escaped from it, and I limit my posts to The Poets' Corner updates. A nest of vipers. On Fri, Nov 7, 2008 at 9:29 PM, Alexander Dickow wrote: > I keep hearing about this poetryetc group. What's it all about? And where > does it come from? Anyone interesting on it? ;P > No, sillies, Theodore Roethke is *spelled* Theodore Roethke, but it's > *pronounced* Raymond Luxury Yacht. > Amicalement, > Alex > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081107/3c5ab573/attachment.html From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Fri Nov 7 16:59:33 2008 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:28 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] No time to be original In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4914BA45.60105@nut-n-but.net> David Graham wrote: > > > I think that slavish imitation is, for most poets, a necessary phase > of initiation. Not all young poets realize they they're doing it, but > they pretty much all are. It wasn't until my first book was in print, > actually, that I realized how Richard Hugo's fingerprints were all > over most of its poems. > > *Worrying* about the anxiety of influence, on the other hand, is > futile and, yes, a waste of time. It can lead to paralysis and other > maladies. It might have been Donald Hall who remarked that the way to > deal with the "threat" of being unduly influenced was to read as > widely as possible, preferably among poets from earlier centuries. Right. For me, it's not a matter of somehow transcending influences, but being influenced by as many (different AND different kinds of) poets as possible. > And I've always liked, and often quoted, Denise Levertov's remark > that "originality is nothing else but the deepest honesty." A good half-truth, but useful only for poets whose only concern is self-expression, or what their poems say, not with how they say it (technically). Unless there's some way honesty can lead to technical invention. --Bob G. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081107/21c86303/attachment.html From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Fri Nov 7 17:53:02 2008 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:28 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] poetryetc In-Reply-To: <4b65c2d70811071354x6f19d094vf0759d73c4c6fe54@mail.gmail.com> References: <200811071700.mA7H06nK025982@wiz.cath.vt.edu><850547.83414.qm@web35503.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <4b65c2d70811071354x6f19d094vf0759d73c4c6fe54@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4914C6CE.5020108@nut-n-but.net> Anny Ballardini wrote: > Forget about it. Joseph Duemer escaped from it, and I limit my posts > to The Poets' Corner updates. > A nest of vipers. > Dang. And I'm too busy to sign up! --Bob G. From halvard at earthlink.net Fri Nov 7 18:14:04 2008 From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:28 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] poetryetc In-Reply-To: <4914C6CE.5020108@nut-n-but.net> References: <200811071700.mA7H06nK025982@wiz.cath.vt.edu><850547.83414.qm@web35503.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <4b65c2d70811071354x6f19d094vf0759d73c4c6fe54@mail.gmail.com> <4914C6CE.5020108@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <65C3D494-37D5-46F7-A83E-FE7EFA70DA33@earthlink.net> Not to worry, Bob. At least one of those vipers is right here, right now. Hope you're wearing your boots. Hal "If you can't annoy somebody, what's the point in writing?" --Kingsley Amis Halvard Johnson ================ halvard@earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html On Nov 7, 2008, at 4:53 PM, Bob Grumman wrote: > Anny Ballardini wrote: >> Forget about it. Joseph Duemer escaped from it, and I limit my >> posts to The Poets' Corner updates. >> A nest of vipers. >> > Dang. And I'm too busy to sign up! > > --Bob G. > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From jforjames at aol.com Fri Nov 7 18:15:58 2008 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames@aol.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:29 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Poetic Justice In-Reply-To: <7db1d01b0811071041k20233254pf725ef6ef8ead2f5@mail.gmail.com> References: <380-22008115718742789@M2W014.mail2web.com> <7db1d01b0811071041k20233254pf725ef6ef8ead2f5@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <8CB0F45ED22EE5F-1384-16D9@WEBMAIL-MY35.sysops.aol.com> Judy, people who have been on the list for some time know who I am. If you stay around you'll discover my secret identity. If not, not. All lists have good and bad moments. Say something interesting and someone might respond. Finnegan Thanks, opus 40-01, though I'm suspicious of someone who cannot be addressed with a people name. ? I didnae know the history of NP nor that it had a godfather who calls himself 'j for james'. ? ? Further, I don't know the many sites one can post poems for critiques, and I'm not sure I'd want to throw poems at a mass of folk who don't talk about life like normal people do. ?I want to get an idea about their personalities and character, not just their poetry. ?And I DO want to benefit from practicing poets' understandings of dead poets as well as their explanations and views on the workings of poetry. ?POETRYETC folk do these things, and they've helped me immeasurably in better understanding how to write and read poetry and plays. On POETRYETC some of us post poems, especially on Wednesdays on what is called SNAP day. ?I also like that we're not mostly USAmericans [which's what I am], so I can learn a bit about attitudes other than those I'm used to. ? I joined NP because Robin Hamilton suggested both POETRYETC and NP, and he has an uncanny track record of good advice. May I call you Opie? ?[yeah, just kidding] Best, J486022& -----Original Message----- From: Judy Prince Sent: Fri, 7 Nov 2008 1:41 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Re: Poetic Justice Thanks, opus 40-01, though I'm suspicious of someone who cannot be addressed with a people name. ? I didnae know the history of NP nor that it had a godfather who calls himself 'j for james'. ? ? Further, I don't know the many sites one can post poems for critiques, and I'm not sure I'd want to throw poems at a mass of folk who don't talk about life like normal people do. ?I want to get an idea about their personalities and character, not just their poetry. ?And I DO want to benefit from practicing poets' understandings of dead poets as well as their explanations and views on the workings of poetry. ?POETRYETC folk do these things, and they've helped me immeasurably in better understanding how to write and read poetry and plays. On POETRYETC some of us post poems, especially on Wednesdays on what is called SNAP day. ?I also like that we're not mostly USAmericans [which's what I am], so I can learn a bit about attitudes other than those I'm used to. ? I joined NP because Robin Hamilton suggested both POETRYETC and NP, and he has an uncanny track record of good advice. May I call you Opie? ?[yeah, just kidding] Best, J486022& 2008/11/7 opus40-01@opus40.org Judy -- I don't believe anyone here doesn't care about living, posting poets. I know I do. Theory behind NewPo was, however, that there are lots of places on the web where one can post poetry for critique, relatively few where one can talk shop and discuss issues relating to contemporary poetry. Our godfather, JforJames, requested that people post no more than 3 original poems per month, and we've all kinda honored that, though nothing bad would happen to someone who overstepped the limit (I think I might have, once or twice). I would love to find a small, private online group for posting and critiquing -- I see the value in open lists or forums, but it's just not for me. Original Message: ----------------- From: Judy Prince jbalizsprince@googlemail.com Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2008 12:53:43 -0500 To: new-poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Re: Poetic Justice There you go, then, John. ?Despite your not needing to respond or defend your lovely poem against the GrumbleMan's attack, you done done it. ?A simple "sod off" would've sufficed [what someone recently responded to my attack and made me laugh, makes me laugh everytime I think of it]. ?So now you've racked up two occasions of explaining poetry on NP, and neither was necessary. Perhaps, since only GrumbleMan registers reactions to poems brought to the site, and his reactions are useless, you could hop over to POETRYETC where 3 people would respond benignly and unhelpfully. I don't get why these two poetrylists [never been on another] seem not to care about alive, current, contributing poets' works. Maybe it's because the listmembers have another agenda, or radically different expectations for what they want a poetrylist to do. ?Re NP, it seems the main function is highly delete-able announcements of which poet won which award. Here's my take on your poem: ?I cherish it. ?It helped me see my own recent follies and stupidities [some of them, anyway], and to chuckle at m'sel', knowing---bcuz of the poem---that I'm not alone in my 'sour' presentation of life, my own counterproductive makings of my own life. Pardon me for what I'm about to say, but: ?FUCK the phrase 'light verse'. ?Like 'light pregnancy' or 'casualties', I don't buy it as an apt descriptor. Here's the Judy Theory of HaHa: Shaksper couldn't do HaHa. ?She tried so hard, so often, but just couldnae pull it off. Other females have done really great HaHa: ?Roseanne Barr, Mae West, Dorothy Parker, and many of the mothers of male stand-up comedians who tell how their comedy came from their mom. My fave on POETRYETC for HaHa is Patrick McManus who has managed for as long as I've been on the list [4 years] to come up with a HaHa poem every Wednesday, whose poetry pamphlet, brilliant and brilliantly illustrated [by me, natch] still, after hundreds of my readings, makes me laugh out loud continuously. ?Most of his work has that sweet edge of self-mockery, and is lovely surprising. HaHa goes beyond 'tragedy' or 'serious' or whatever word one would posit for the opposite of HaHa. ?It requires the unity of all a person's faculties. ?It needs more than brain and heart. ?It operates at an upper atmosphere, whilst unHaHa operates within the gut, heart, and ground. HaHa sees over our heads and brings its knowings down to us for healing. ?We will respect a non-HaHa writer's works, but we will love a HaHa writer. I love you, HaHa writer. ?Don't take it personally, though, as I love lotsa folk, most often when they HaHa. ?Would a smiley face fit here as my closing? ?Yeah, definitely: ?;-) Judy 2008/11/7 Bob Grumman > ?John Jeffrey wrote: > > ?Bob, > > Maybe that is all it has going for it, a "wittilly self-demoting > observation". ?I don't mind. ?It's funny, and I like that. ?And I like > "soured," and I like that the guy didn't realize that the set was off until > "hours" went by. ?Also, I chose to keep the meter standard because in this > type of poem, it's expected (you're cringing at that comment, aren't you?) > > Not at all. ?A poem needs lots of expectednesses. ?Too many poets, though, > compose as though unaware that a poem with no unexpectednesses is worthless. > > > ?and in such a short piece any excessive break in the meter would seem too > jarring. ?It would overwhelm the poor little thing. > > Too, I like the fact that many people, when they hear the title, settle in > to nod and laugh at such an easy target: reality television. ?Everyone > seems to agree that it's "awful...Oh, it's mindless...drivel...I'd rather > stare at the wall..." ?Over and over. ?Yet, those sentiments are frequently > followed with a sheepish, "though I'll admit I do watch...[Amer Idol, > Survivor, Dancing whatever, Cooking whatever, insert here]. ?So I like that > the poem points the finger not the shows but at us, since there would be no > such shows without a willing audience. ?And I don't much mind that lots of > folk miss the simple point and laugh simply because the character in the > poem is staring at a blank tv set and doesn't realize it's off. ?That's > makes me chuckle. ?(I also like the two-mirror idea of the guy sitting > there, bored, watching a guy sitting there bored, watching a guy sitting > there...but that's just me forcing something into the poem that I don't > really explore.) > > I wasn't going for much more than that, a laugh, maybe a little a-ha > moment. ?Oh, and yes, I also like that it is crafted and metrical and rhymes > and... ?I'm sure that makes many tut-tut in head-shaking pity. ?Then again, > it is just a little quatrain of light verse. > > > ?Lastly, yes, I'd imagine that we're on the different sides of the poetry > fence. ?But so what? ?We're still neighbors, and I may need to borrow some > sugar someday. > > Sorry, I don't use sugar. ?Just kidding. ?It's salt I'd not be able to lend > you. > > --Bob > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web.com - Microsoft? Exchange solutions from a leading provider - http://link.mail2web.com/Business/Exchange _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081107/1a430029/attachment.html From halvard at earthlink.net Fri Nov 7 18:34:02 2008 From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:29 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] "Late Returns" In-Reply-To: <4b65c2d70811051023x4ac30c29k2962f21cf262df81@mail.gmail.com> References: <428270.52745.qm@web54410.mail.yahoo.com> <4b65c2d70811051023x4ac30c29k2962f21cf262df81@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Late Returns Ballots from Alpha Centauri are running late, as are those from even more far-flung precincts of the galaxy. After a long, winding, self-indulgent speech, galactic librarians remind us that we will not be able to borrow anything if three-week, one-week, or two-day loan items have not been returned and all fines paid. Intra-galactic congestion--when the offered load of a data communication path exceeds the capacity (lots of mariachi children strumming gently in the background)--of boggy, blood-filled tissue. Huge spin rallies of interstellar truckers hit by late fees and fines. "Ain't always who votes that counts. Some- times it's who counts votes that counts," says Mr. Steel. Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard@earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081107/73e86378/attachment.html From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Fri Nov 7 19:03:46 2008 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:29 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] poetryetc In-Reply-To: <65C3D494-37D5-46F7-A83E-FE7EFA70DA33@earthlink.net> References: <200811071700.mA7H06nK025982@wiz.cath.vt.edu><850547.83414.qm@web35503.mail.mud.yahoo.com><4b65c2d70811071354x6f19d09 4vf0759d73c4c6fe54@mail.gmail.com><4914C6CE.5020108@nut-n-but.net> <65C3D494-37D5-46F7-A83E-FE7EFA70DA33@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <4914D762.9020303@nut-n-but.net> Halvard Johnson wrote: > Not to worry, Bob. At least one of those vipers is right here, > right now. Hope you're wearing your boots. > > Hal Come on, Hal, there have to be worser ones there than you! Robin's there, I know, but he's as feeble as they come. He agrees with me sometimes, for Pete's sake. (Or maybe he WAS there.) --Bob G. From jjeffreymail at yahoo.com Fri Nov 7 22:18:17 2008 From: jjeffreymail at yahoo.com (John Jeffrey) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:29 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] confessions of a recovering poet References: <8CB0F299E733BD9-974-1168@MBLK-M04.sysops.aol.com> <4914B854.2070103@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <9033.21826.qm@web54112.mail.re2.yahoo.com> "...could you imagine a program like American Idol (as I take it to be without ever seeing more than a minute or so of it) for POETS! Have a panel of judges like Logan, our own David Graham, and ME." I can imagine it, sure, though we need a name. "Poetry Idol" is too derivative. As for the schedule, let's see... Week 1: Haiku Week 2: Sonnet Week 3: Mathpo (Oooooo and John J is voted off with a weak performance!) Week 4: Imagist Poem Week 5: Narrative Week 6: L=A=N=G=U=A=G=E poem and etc. I wonder which one of the panel is going to be the prickly, difficult-to-please, Simon Cowell-type judge? John J ________________________________ From: Bob Grumman To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views" Sent: Friday, November 7, 2008 4:51:16 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] confessions of a recovering poet jforjames@aol.com wrote: > http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20081106.wpodfacts1106/BNStory/lifeMain/home?cid=al_gam_mostemail > > At the launch of my first book, there was no one I didn't recognize. At the launch of my second, there actually were. After a flicker of excitement, I realized that was only because a book of 100 poems about the numbers from 1 to 100 was so idiosyncratically perverse, it had drawn the curious. > > If the Canada Council for the Arts was serious about supporting this dubious art form, it would stop funding poets. Being addicted, they will write poetry anyway. The money should be used to subsidize people to attend readings and create what poetry really needs: an audience. I'm not sure how well that would work, but it'd be worth trying. They might also consider subsidizing poetry criticism. Or discussion of poets and poetry--something to get people talking about poetry the way they talk about television programs and movies. Something like what Kooser (and others?) are doing. Of course, I'd prefer some discussion of poems from places other than Wilshburia, but . . . maybe some day. Hey, could you imagine a program like American Idol (as I take it to be without ever seeing more than a minute or so of it) for POETS! Have a panel of judges like Logan, our own David Graham, and ME. OR: some kind of poets' survival show, where each of a group of poets recites or shows poems of his and says why they're good, and each week the audience votes one poet off the show. I bet I'd last more than a week if I were on such a show! --Bob G. _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081107/93033a04/attachment.html From Opus40-01 at opus40.org Fri Nov 7 22:36:12 2008 From: Opus40-01 at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:29 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Poetic Justice In-Reply-To: <7db1d01b0811071041k20233254pf725ef6ef8ead2f5@mail.gmail.com> References: <380-22008115718742789@M2W014.mail2web.com> <7db1d01b0811071041k20233254pf725ef6ef8ead2f5@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4915092C.7030504@opus40.org> I have a people name -- when I connect from my office at school it doesn't show up, and sometimes I forget that my signature won't be attached. My name is Tad Richards. Judy Prince wrote: > Thanks, opus 40-01, though I'm suspicious of someone who cannot be > addressed with a people name. > > I didnae know the history of NP nor that it had a godfather who calls > himself 'j for james'. > > Further, I don't know the many sites one can post poems for critiques, > and I'm not sure I'd want to throw poems at a mass of folk who don't > talk about life like normal people do. I want to get an idea about > their personalities and character, not just their poetry. And I DO > want to benefit from practicing poets' understandings of dead poets as > well as their explanations and views on the workings of poetry. > POETRYETC folk do these things, and they've helped me immeasurably in > better understanding how to write and read poetry and plays. > > On POETRYETC some of us post poems, especially on Wednesdays on what > is called SNAP day. I also like that we're not mostly USAmericans > [which's what I am], so I can learn a bit about attitudes other than > those I'm used to. > > I joined NP because Robin Hamilton suggested both POETRYETC and NP, > and he has an uncanny track record of good advice. > > May I call you Opie? [yeah, just kidding] > > Best, > > J486022& > > 2008/11/7 opus40-01@opus40.org > > > > Judy -- I don't believe anyone here doesn't care about living, posting > poets. I know I do. Theory behind NewPo was, however, that there > are lots > of places on the web where one can post poetry for critique, > relatively few > where one can talk shop and discuss issues relating to > contemporary poetry. > > Our godfather, JforJames, requested that people post no more than 3 > original poems per month, and we've all kinda honored that, though > nothing > bad would happen to someone who overstepped the limit (I think I might > have, once or twice). > > I would love to find a small, private online group for posting and > critiquing -- I see the value in open lists or forums, but it's > just not > for me. > > Original Message: > ----------------- > From: Judy Prince jbalizsprince@googlemail.com > > Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2008 12:53:43 -0500 > To: new-poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Re: Poetic Justice > > > There you go, then, John. Despite your not needing to respond or > defend > your lovely poem against the GrumbleMan's attack, you done done it. A > simple "sod off" would've sufficed [what someone recently > responded to my > attack and made me laugh, makes me laugh everytime I think of it]. > So now > you've racked up two occasions of explaining poetry on NP, and > neither was > necessary. > Perhaps, since only GrumbleMan registers reactions to poems > brought to the > site, and his reactions are useless, you could hop over to > POETRYETC where 3 > people would respond benignly and unhelpfully. > > I don't get why these two poetrylists [never been on another] seem > not to > care about alive, current, contributing poets' works. > > Maybe it's because the listmembers have another agenda, or radically > different expectations for what they want a poetrylist to do. Re > NP, it > seems the main function is highly delete-able announcements of > which poet > won which award. > > Here's my take on your poem: I cherish it. It helped me see my > own recent > follies and stupidities [some of them, anyway], and to chuckle at > m'sel', > knowing---bcuz of the poem---that I'm not alone in my 'sour' > presentation of > life, my own counterproductive makings of my own life. > > Pardon me for what I'm about to say, but: FUCK the phrase 'light > verse'. > Like 'light pregnancy' or 'casualties', I don't buy it as an apt > descriptor. > > Here's the Judy Theory of HaHa: > > Shaksper couldn't do HaHa. She tried so hard, so often, but just > couldnae > pull it off. > > Other females have done really great HaHa: Roseanne Barr, Mae > West, Dorothy > Parker, and many of the mothers of male stand-up comedians who > tell how > their comedy came from their mom. > > My fave on POETRYETC for HaHa is Patrick McManus who has managed > for as long > as I've been on the list [4 years] to come up with a HaHa poem every > Wednesday, whose poetry pamphlet, brilliant and brilliantly > illustrated [by > me, natch] still, after hundreds of my readings, makes me laugh > out loud > continuously. Most of his work has that sweet edge of > self-mockery, and is > lovely surprising. > > HaHa goes beyond 'tragedy' or 'serious' or whatever word one would > posit for > the opposite of HaHa. It requires the unity of all a person's > faculties. > It needs more than brain and heart. It operates at an upper > atmosphere, > whilst unHaHa operates within the gut, heart, and ground. > > HaHa sees over our heads and brings its knowings down to us for > healing. We > will respect a non-HaHa writer's works, but we will love a HaHa > writer. > > I love you, HaHa writer. Don't take it personally, though, as I > love lotsa > folk, most often when they HaHa. Would a smiley face fit here as my > closing? Yeah, definitely: ;-) > > Judy > > > > 2008/11/7 Bob Grumman > > > > John Jeffrey wrote: > > > > Bob, > > > > Maybe that is all it has going for it, a "wittilly self-demoting > > observation". I don't mind. It's funny, and I like that. And > I like > > "soured," and I like that the guy didn't realize that the set > was off > until > > "hours" went by. Also, I chose to keep the meter standard > because in this > > type of poem, it's expected (you're cringing at that comment, > aren't you?) > > > > Not at all. A poem needs lots of expectednesses. Too many > poets, though, > > compose as though unaware that a poem with no unexpectednesses is > worthless. > > > > > > and in such a short piece any excessive break in the meter > would seem too > > jarring. It would overwhelm the poor little thing. > > > > Too, I like the fact that many people, when they hear the title, > settle in > > to nod and laugh at such an easy target: reality television. > Everyone > > seems to agree that it's "awful...Oh, it's > mindless...drivel...I'd rather > > stare at the wall..." Over and over. Yet, those sentiments are > frequently > > followed with a sheepish, "though I'll admit I do watch...[Amer > Idol, > > Survivor, Dancing whatever, Cooking whatever, insert here]. So > I like > that > > the poem points the finger not the shows but at us, since there > would be > no > > such shows without a willing audience. And I don't much mind > that lots of > > folk miss the simple point and laugh simply because the > character in the > > poem is staring at a blank tv set and doesn't realize it's off. > That's > > makes me chuckle. (I also like the two-mirror idea of the guy > sitting > > there, bored, watching a guy sitting there bored, watching a guy > sitting > > there...but that's just me forcing something into the poem that > I don't > > really explore.) > > > > I wasn't going for much more than that, a laugh, maybe a little a-ha > > moment. Oh, and yes, I also like that it is crafted and > metrical and > rhymes > > and... I'm sure that makes many tut-tut in head-shaking pity. Then > again, > > it is just a little quatrain of light verse. > > > > > > Lastly, yes, I'd imagine that we're on the different sides of > the poetry > > fence. But so what? We're still neighbors, and I may need to > borrow some > > sugar someday. > > > > Sorry, I don't use sugar. Just kidding. It's salt I'd not be > able to > lend > > you. > > > > --Bob > > > > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > mail2web.com - Microsoft? Exchange solutions > from a leading provider - > http://link.mail2web.com/Business/Exchange > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ Don't forget to order your copy of FILM NOIR! http://stores.lulu.com/store.php?fAcctID=2712239 From Rsgwynn1 at cs.com Fri Nov 7 22:53:02 2008 From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com (Rsgwynn1@cs.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:29 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] confessions of a recovering poet Message-ID: In a message dated 11/7/2008 9:18:49 PM Central Standard Time, jjeffreymail@yahoo.com writes: > > > > > "...could you imagine a program like American Idol (as I take it to be > without ever seeing more than a minute or so of it) for POETS! Have a panel of > judges like Logan, our own David Graham, and ME." > > > I suggest "Dancing with the Peots" as a summer replacement show. Whatever the case, I demand to be Simon! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081107/bdf93a5b/attachment.html From jbalizsprince at googlemail.com Fri Nov 7 23:05:48 2008 From: jbalizsprince at googlemail.com (Judy Prince) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:29 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Poetic Justice In-Reply-To: <4915092C.7030504@opus40.org> References: <380-22008115718742789@M2W014.mail2web.com> <7db1d01b0811071041k20233254pf725ef6ef8ead2f5@mail.gmail.com> <4915092C.7030504@opus40.org> Message-ID: <7db1d01b0811072005y2248d86bwf492c7fdb317d96e@mail.gmail.com> Hi, Tad, as many of your posts as I've read, I do, forgive me, from time to time forget your people name. One of the reasons is that I like your animal name. P'raps I should've said a 'not-number' name. A further complication is that I've always felt happily compelled to change folks' names, no matter what they are. A sickness, a real sickness. So even if I come to know Opus 40-01's not-number name, I'd prolly want to call him something else. And, then, as J for James points out, mystery's rather lovely [am drastically paraphrasing here, too exhausted to find his post; hope I've not misrepresented it]. joodles 2008/11/7 TheOldMole > I have a people name -- when I connect from my office at school it doesn't > show up, and sometimes I forget that my signature won't be attached. My name > is Tad Richards. > > Judy Prince wrote: > >> Thanks, opus 40-01, though I'm suspicious of someone who cannot be >> addressed with a people name. >> I didnae know the history of NP nor that it had a godfather who calls >> himself 'j for james'. >> Further, I don't know the many sites one can post poems for critiques, and >> I'm not sure I'd want to throw poems at a mass of folk who don't talk about >> life like normal people do. I want to get an idea about their personalities >> and character, not just their poetry. And I DO want to benefit from >> practicing poets' understandings of dead poets as well as their explanations >> and views on the workings of poetry. POETRYETC folk do these things, and >> they've helped me immeasurably in better understanding how to write and read >> poetry and plays. >> >> On POETRYETC some of us post poems, especially on Wednesdays on what is >> called SNAP day. I also like that we're not mostly USAmericans [which's >> what I am], so I can learn a bit about attitudes other than those I'm used >> to. >> I joined NP because Robin Hamilton suggested both POETRYETC and NP, and he >> has an uncanny track record of good advice. >> >> May I call you Opie? [yeah, just kidding] >> >> Best, >> >> J486022& >> >> 2008/11/7 opus40-01@opus40.org < >> opus40-01@opus40.org > >> >> Judy -- I don't believe anyone here doesn't care about living, posting >> poets. I know I do. Theory behind NewPo was, however, that there >> are lots >> of places on the web where one can post poetry for critique, >> relatively few >> where one can talk shop and discuss issues relating to >> contemporary poetry. >> >> Our godfather, JforJames, requested that people post no more than 3 >> original poems per month, and we've all kinda honored that, though >> nothing >> bad would happen to someone who overstepped the limit (I think I might >> have, once or twice). >> >> I would love to find a small, private online group for posting and >> critiquing -- I see the value in open lists or forums, but it's >> just not >> for me. >> >> Original Message: >> ----------------- >> From: Judy Prince jbalizsprince@googlemail.com >> >> Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2008 12:53:43 -0500 >> To: new-poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu >> >> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Re: Poetic Justice >> >> >> There you go, then, John. Despite your not needing to respond or >> defend >> your lovely poem against the GrumbleMan's attack, you done done it. A >> simple "sod off" would've sufficed [what someone recently >> responded to my >> attack and made me laugh, makes me laugh everytime I think of it]. >> So now >> you've racked up two occasions of explaining poetry on NP, and >> neither was >> necessary. >> Perhaps, since only GrumbleMan registers reactions to poems >> brought to the >> site, and his reactions are useless, you could hop over to >> POETRYETC where 3 >> people would respond benignly and unhelpfully. >> >> I don't get why these two poetrylists [never been on another] seem >> not to >> care about alive, current, contributing poets' works. >> >> Maybe it's because the listmembers have another agenda, or radically >> different expectations for what they want a poetrylist to do. Re >> NP, it >> seems the main function is highly delete-able announcements of >> which poet >> won which award. >> >> Here's my take on your poem: I cherish it. It helped me see my >> own recent >> follies and stupidities [some of them, anyway], and to chuckle at >> m'sel', >> knowing---bcuz of the poem---that I'm not alone in my 'sour' >> presentation of >> life, my own counterproductive makings of my own life. >> >> Pardon me for what I'm about to say, but: FUCK the phrase 'light >> verse'. >> Like 'light pregnancy' or 'casualties', I don't buy it as an apt >> descriptor. >> >> Here's the Judy Theory of HaHa: >> >> Shaksper couldn't do HaHa. She tried so hard, so often, but just >> couldnae >> pull it off. >> >> Other females have done really great HaHa: Roseanne Barr, Mae >> West, Dorothy >> Parker, and many of the mothers of male stand-up comedians who >> tell how >> their comedy came from their mom. >> >> My fave on POETRYETC for HaHa is Patrick McManus who has managed >> for as long >> as I've been on the list [4 years] to come up with a HaHa poem every >> Wednesday, whose poetry pamphlet, brilliant and brilliantly >> illustrated [by >> me, natch] still, after hundreds of my readings, makes me laugh >> out loud >> continuously. Most of his work has that sweet edge of >> self-mockery, and is >> lovely surprising. >> >> HaHa goes beyond 'tragedy' or 'serious' or whatever word one would >> posit for >> the opposite of HaHa. It requires the unity of all a person's >> faculties. >> It needs more than brain and heart. It operates at an upper >> atmosphere, >> whilst unHaHa operates within the gut, heart, and ground. >> >> HaHa sees over our heads and brings its knowings down to us for >> healing. We >> will respect a non-HaHa writer's works, but we will love a HaHa >> writer. >> >> I love you, HaHa writer. Don't take it personally, though, as I >> love lotsa >> folk, most often when they HaHa. Would a smiley face fit here as my >> closing? Yeah, definitely: ;-) >> >> Judy >> >> >> >> 2008/11/7 Bob Grumman > > >> >> >> > John Jeffrey wrote: >> > >> > Bob, >> > >> > Maybe that is all it has going for it, a "wittilly self-demoting >> > observation". I don't mind. It's funny, and I like that. And >> I like >> > "soured," and I like that the guy didn't realize that the set >> was off >> until >> > "hours" went by. Also, I chose to keep the meter standard >> because in this >> > type of poem, it's expected (you're cringing at that comment, >> aren't you?) >> > >> > Not at all. A poem needs lots of expectednesses. Too many >> poets, though, >> > compose as though unaware that a poem with no unexpectednesses is >> worthless. >> > >> > >> > and in such a short piece any excessive break in the meter >> would seem too >> > jarring. It would overwhelm the poor little thing. >> > >> > Too, I like the fact that many people, when they hear the title, >> settle in >> > to nod and laugh at such an easy target: reality television. >> Everyone >> > seems to agree that it's "awful...Oh, it's >> mindless...drivel...I'd rather >> > stare at the wall..." Over and over. Yet, those sentiments are >> frequently >> > followed with a sheepish, "though I'll admit I do watch...[Amer >> Idol, >> > Survivor, Dancing whatever, Cooking whatever, insert here]. So >> I like >> that >> > the poem points the finger not the shows but at us, since there >> would be >> no >> > such shows without a willing audience. And I don't much mind >> that lots of >> > folk miss the simple point and laugh simply because the >> character in the >> > poem is staring at a blank tv set and doesn't realize it's off. >> That's >> > makes me chuckle. (I also like the two-mirror idea of the guy >> sitting >> > there, bored, watching a guy sitting there bored, watching a guy >> sitting >> > there...but that's just me forcing something into the poem that >> I don't >> > really explore.) >> > >> > I wasn't going for much more than that, a laugh, maybe a little a-ha >> > moment. Oh, and yes, I also like that it is crafted and >> metrical and >> rhymes >> > and... I'm sure that makes many tut-tut in head-shaking pity. Then >> again, >> > it is just a little quatrain of light verse. >> > >> > >> > Lastly, yes, I'd imagine that we're on the different sides of >> the poetry >> > fence. But so what? We're still neighbors, and I may need to >> borrow some >> > sugar someday. >> > >> > Sorry, I don't use sugar. Just kidding. It's salt I'd not be >> able to >> lend >> > you. >> > >> > --Bob >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > New-Poetry mailing list >> > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu >> > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> > >> > >> >> >> -------------------------------------------------------------------- >> mail2web.com - Microsoft(R) Exchange solutions >> from a leading provider - >> http://link.mail2web.com/Business/Exchange >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > > -- > Tad Richards > http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ > http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ > > Don't forget to order your copy of FILM NOIR! > http://stores.lulu.com/store.php?fAcctID=2712239 > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081107/f14118ad/attachment.html From Opus40-01 at opus40.org Sat Nov 8 04:36:32 2008 From: Opus40-01 at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:30 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Poetic Justice In-Reply-To: <7db1d01b0811072005y2248d86bwf492c7fdb317d96e@mail.gmail.com> References: <380-22008115718742789@M2W014.mail2web.com> <7db1d01b0811071041k20233254pf725ef6ef8ead2f5@mail.gmail.com> <4915092C.7030504@opus40.org> <7db1d01b0811072005y2248d86bwf492c7fdb317d96e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <49155DA0.50000@opus40.org> Basically, my number-name comes from having set up my mailbox wrong when I first signed up with the web hosting service, when I was starting to create the Opus 40 website. Judy Prince wrote: > Hi, Tad, as many of your posts as I've read, I do, forgive me, from > time to time forget your people name. One of the reasons is that I > like your animal name. > > P'raps I should've said a 'not-number' name. A further > complication is that I've always felt happily compelled to change > folks' names, no matter what they are. A sickness, a real sickness. > So even if I come to know Opus 40-01's not-number name, I'd prolly > want to call him something else. And, then, as J for James points > out, mystery's rather lovely [am drastically paraphrasing here, too > exhausted to find his post; hope I've not misrepresented it]. > > joodles > > 2008/11/7 TheOldMole > > > I have a people name -- when I connect from my office at school it > doesn't show up, and sometimes I forget that my signature won't be > attached. My name is Tad Richards. > > Judy Prince wrote: > > Thanks, opus 40-01, though I'm suspicious of someone who > cannot be addressed with a people name. > I didnae know the history of NP nor that it had a godfather > who calls himself 'j for james'. > Further, I don't know the many sites one can post poems for > critiques, and I'm not sure I'd want to throw poems at a mass > of folk who don't talk about life like normal people do. I > want to get an idea about their personalities and character, > not just their poetry. And I DO want to benefit from > practicing poets' understandings of dead poets as well as > their explanations and views on the workings of poetry. > POETRYETC folk do these things, and they've helped me > immeasurably in better understanding how to write and read > poetry and plays. > > On POETRYETC some of us post poems, especially on Wednesdays > on what is called SNAP day. I also like that we're not mostly > USAmericans [which's what I am], so I can learn a bit about > attitudes other than those I'm used to. > I joined NP because Robin Hamilton suggested both POETRYETC > and NP, and he has an uncanny track record of good advice. > > May I call you Opie? [yeah, just kidding] > > Best, > > J486022& > > 2008/11/7 opus40-01@opus40.org > > > > >> > > > Judy -- I don't believe anyone here doesn't care about > living, posting > poets. I know I do. Theory behind NewPo was, however, that > there > are lots > of places on the web where one can post poetry for critique, > relatively few > where one can talk shop and discuss issues relating to > contemporary poetry. > > Our godfather, JforJames, requested that people post no > more than 3 > original poems per month, and we've all kinda honored that, > though > nothing > bad would happen to someone who overstepped the limit (I > think I might > have, once or twice). > > I would love to find a small, private online group for > posting and > critiquing -- I see the value in open lists or forums, but it's > just not > for me. > > Original Message: > ----------------- > From: Judy Prince jbalizsprince@googlemail.com > > > > > Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2008 12:53:43 -0500 > To: new-poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > > > > > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Re: Poetic Justice > > > There you go, then, John. Despite your not needing to > respond or > defend > your lovely poem against the GrumbleMan's attack, you done > done it. A > simple "sod off" would've sufficed [what someone recently > responded to my > attack and made me laugh, makes me laugh everytime I think > of it]. > So now > you've racked up two occasions of explaining poetry on NP, and > neither was > necessary. > Perhaps, since only GrumbleMan registers reactions to poems > brought to the > site, and his reactions are useless, you could hop over to > POETRYETC where 3 > people would respond benignly and unhelpfully. > > I don't get why these two poetrylists [never been on > another] seem > not to > care about alive, current, contributing poets' works. > > Maybe it's because the listmembers have another agenda, or > radically > different expectations for what they want a poetrylist to > do. Re > NP, it > seems the main function is highly delete-able announcements of > which poet > won which award. > > Here's my take on your poem: I cherish it. It helped me > see my > own recent > follies and stupidities [some of them, anyway], and to > chuckle at > m'sel', > knowing---bcuz of the poem---that I'm not alone in my 'sour' > presentation of > life, my own counterproductive makings of my own life. > > Pardon me for what I'm about to say, but: FUCK the phrase > 'light > verse'. > Like 'light pregnancy' or 'casualties', I don't buy it as > an apt > descriptor. > > Here's the Judy Theory of HaHa: > > Shaksper couldn't do HaHa. She tried so hard, so often, > but just > couldnae > pull it off. > > Other females have done really great HaHa: Roseanne Barr, Mae > West, Dorothy > Parker, and many of the mothers of male stand-up comedians who > tell how > their comedy came from their mom. > > My fave on POETRYETC for HaHa is Patrick McManus who has > managed > for as long > as I've been on the list [4 years] to come up with a HaHa > poem every > Wednesday, whose poetry pamphlet, brilliant and brilliantly > illustrated [by > me, natch] still, after hundreds of my readings, makes me laugh > out loud > continuously. Most of his work has that sweet edge of > self-mockery, and is > lovely surprising. > > HaHa goes beyond 'tragedy' or 'serious' or whatever word > one would > posit for > the opposite of HaHa. It requires the unity of all a person's > faculties. > It needs more than brain and heart. It operates at an upper > atmosphere, > whilst unHaHa operates within the gut, heart, and ground. > > HaHa sees over our heads and brings its knowings down to us for > healing. We > will respect a non-HaHa writer's works, but we will love a HaHa > writer. > > I love you, HaHa writer. Don't take it personally, though, > as I > love lotsa > folk, most often when they HaHa. Would a smiley face fit > here as my > closing? Yeah, definitely: ;-) > > Judy > > > > 2008/11/7 Bob Grumman > >> > > > > John Jeffrey wrote: > > > > Bob, > > > > Maybe that is all it has going for it, a "wittilly > self-demoting > > observation". I don't mind. It's funny, and I like > that. And > I like > > "soured," and I like that the guy didn't realize that the set > was off > until > > "hours" went by. Also, I chose to keep the meter standard > because in this > > type of poem, it's expected (you're cringing at that comment, > aren't you?) > > > > Not at all. A poem needs lots of expectednesses. Too many > poets, though, > > compose as though unaware that a poem with no > unexpectednesses is > worthless. > > > > > > and in such a short piece any excessive break in the meter > would seem too > > jarring. It would overwhelm the poor little thing. > > > > Too, I like the fact that many people, when they hear the > title, > settle in > > to nod and laugh at such an easy target: reality television. > Everyone > > seems to agree that it's "awful...Oh, it's > mindless...drivel...I'd rather > > stare at the wall..." Over and over. Yet, those > sentiments are > frequently > > followed with a sheepish, "though I'll admit I do > watch...[Amer > Idol, > > Survivor, Dancing whatever, Cooking whatever, insert > here]. So > I like > that > > the poem points the finger not the shows but at us, since > there > would be > no > > such shows without a willing audience. And I don't much mind > that lots of > > folk miss the simple point and laugh simply because the > character in the > > poem is staring at a blank tv set and doesn't realize > it's off. > That's > > makes me chuckle. (I also like the two-mirror idea of > the guy > sitting > > there, bored, watching a guy sitting there bored, > watching a guy > sitting > > there...but that's just me forcing something into the > poem that > I don't > > really explore.) > > > > I wasn't going for much more than that, a laugh, maybe a > little a-ha > > moment. Oh, and yes, I also like that it is crafted and > metrical and > rhymes > > and... I'm sure that makes many tut-tut in head-shaking > pity. Then > again, > > it is just a little quatrain of light verse. > > > > > > Lastly, yes, I'd imagine that we're on the different > sides of > the poetry > > fence. But so what? We're still neighbors, and I may > need to > borrow some > > sugar someday. > > > > Sorry, I don't use sugar. Just kidding. It's salt I'd > not be > able to > lend > > you. > > > > --Bob > > > > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > > > > > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > mail2web.com - > Microsoft? Exchange solutions > > from a leading provider - > http://link.mail2web.com/Business/Exchange > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > > > > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > -- > Tad Richards > http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ > http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ > > Don't forget to order your copy of FILM NOIR! > http://stores.lulu.com/store.php?fAcctID=2712239 > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ Don't forget to order your copy of FILM NOIR! http://stores.lulu.com/store.php?fAcctID=2712239 From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sat Nov 8 05:44:59 2008 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:30 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] confessions of a recovering poet In-Reply-To: <9033.21826.qm@web54112.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <8CB0F299E733BD9-974-1168@MBLK-M04.sysops.aol.com><4914B854.2070103@nut-n-but.net> <9033.21826.qm@web54112.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <49156DAB.5040607@nut-n-but.net> John Jeffrey wrote: > "...could you imagine a program like American Idol (as I take it to be > without ever seeing more than a minute or so of it) for POETS! Have a > panel of judges like Logan, our own David Graham, and ME." > > I can imagine it, sure, though we need a name. "Poetry Idol" is too > derivative. As for the schedule, let's see... > > Week 1: Haiku > Week 2: Sonnet > Week 3: Mathpo (Oooooo and John J is voted off with a weak performance!) > Week 4: Imagist Poem > Week 5: Narrative > Week 6: L=A=N=G=U=A=G=E poem > and etc. > > I wonder which one of the panel is going to be the prickly, > difficult-to-please, Simon Cowell-type judge? > > John J > Certainly not David or I! Unless you agree with Judy that I attacked your poem. --Bob G. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081108/bcb33933/attachment.html From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Sat Nov 8 07:40:04 2008 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:30 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] colleges and universities on The New York Times Message-ID: <4b65c2d70811080440n1eb03d84jd1b5d8fab6e98ef9@mail.gmail.com> Tough Times Strain Colleges Rich and Poor http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/08/education/08college.html?_r=1&hp&oref=slogin -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081108/973785c1/attachment.html From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Sat Nov 8 07:45:32 2008 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:30 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Call for Submissions: Poetic Responses to the 2008 American Elections In-Reply-To: <648208b60811061733w5a18979aud154f01b57c0c3ab@mail.gmail.com> References: <428270.52745.qm@web54410.mail.yahoo.com> <4b65c2d70811051023x4ac30c29k2962f21cf262df81@mail.gmail.com> <648208b60811061733w5a18979aud154f01b57c0c3ab@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4b65c2d70811080445t7a57bc67s4678e0f6c1d6a07a@mail.gmail.com> I am forwarding to James Cervantes and to those who would like to comment, from Obododimma Oha: What do you think about the title suggested by Cervantes? *Snowfalkes Falling* sounds like a thrust in the Romantic Tradition. Moreover, it is too close to Gabriel Okara's "Snowflakes Sail Gently Down." Can you think of an alternative title? And could you express my gratitude to Cervantes? On Fri, Nov 7, 2008 at 2:33 AM, James Cervantes wrote: > Uh, the title? How about Snowflakes Falling: A Wordless Conflict? > - Jim > > On Wed, Nov 5, 2008 at 11:23 AM, Anny Ballardini < > anny.ballardini@gmail.com> wrote: > >> >> >> >> >> * * >> >> *While the He/art Pants:* >> >> *Poetic Responses to the 2008 American Elections* >> >> * * >> >> *Call for Submissions* >> >> *Artistic representations, responses, and interrogations of electoral >> events are very important expressions of the endless conversation between >> art and historical experience. The 2008 American elections stimulated a lot >> of artistic responses and there were, in the campaign discourses, some >> subtle invocations of the postures of presidential aspirants to literature >> and cultural productions generally. What, as a poet (defined broadly), is >> the meaning of this whole experience of the 2008 elections? Send us your >> previously unpublished works (poems, paintings, manipulated photographs, >> etc) about the 2008 US elections for inclusion in an online anthology:While >> the He/Art Pants (a title derived from Walt Whitman's poem reproduced >> below), to soon appear on the Poet's Corner, Fiera Lingue. Images should >> be on Jpeg format. As this promises to be a very interesting project, we >> request that you send up to five of the most uncompromising and >> stylistically surprising of your works and a short bio. Other works that do >> not necessarily focus on the 2008 US elections but are relevant to the >> dialogue between art and democratic politics will be considered. * >> >> *Submissions are to be made electronically to: Obododimma Oha (Guest >> Editor) obodooha@gmail.com , udude@full-moon.com * >> >> * * >> >> *OR * >> >> * * >> >> *Anny Ballardini (Editor, The Poet's Corner)* >> >> *anny.ballardini@gmail.com* >> >> *Link to the main index of the site:* >> >> *http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=Content* >> >> * * >> >> *------------------------------- * >> >> * * >> >> *Election Day, November 1884* *from Leaves of Grass by Walt Whitman >> (1892)* >> >> >> If I should need to name, O Western World, your powerfulest scene and >> show, >> 'Twould not be you, Niagara?nor you, ye limitless prairies?nor your huge >> rifts of canyons, Colorado, >> Nor you, Yosemite?nor Yellowstone, with all its spasmic geyserloops >> ascending to the skies, appearing and disappearing, >> Nor Oregon's white cones?nor Huron's belt of mighty lakes?nor >> Mississippi's stream: >> ?This seething hemisphere's humanity, as now, I'd name?the still small >> voice vibrating?America's choosing day, >> (The heart of it not in the chosen?the act itself the main, the >> quadrennial choosing,) >> The stretch of North and South arous'd-sea-board and inland-Texas to >> Maine?the Prairie States?Vermont, Virginia, California, >> The final ballot-shower from East to West?the paradox and conflict, >> The countless snow-flakes falling?(a swordless conflict, >> Yet more than all Rome's wars of old, or modern Napoleon's:) the peaceful >> choice of all, >> Or good or ill humanity?welcoming the darker odds, the dross: >> ?Foams and ferments the wine? it serves to purify?while the heart pants, >> life glows: >> These stormy gusts and winds waft precious ships, >> Swell'd Washington's, Jefferson's, Lincoln's sails. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> Anny Ballardini >> http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ >> http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome >> http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html >> I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing >> star! >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081108/e36e8840/attachment.html From jbalizsprince at googlemail.com Sat Nov 8 11:51:13 2008 From: jbalizsprince at googlemail.com (Judy Prince) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:30 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] 'Reality tv' poem Message-ID: <7db1d01b0811080851m1a9ab5ccl55824372afb9c26b@mail.gmail.com> Thanks again, John. Your 'Reality tv' poem brought to mind a nother bad habit [that I'd been practicing out of the guise of good]. This growing-up-in-old-age's a real hoot----quite freeing. Judy -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081108/2058bb32/attachment.html From jbalizsprince at googlemail.com Sat Nov 8 12:13:35 2008 From: jbalizsprince at googlemail.com (Judy Prince) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:30 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Poetic Justice In-Reply-To: <49155DA0.50000@opus40.org> References: <380-22008115718742789@M2W014.mail2web.com> <7db1d01b0811071041k20233254pf725ef6ef8ead2f5@mail.gmail.com> <4915092C.7030504@opus40.org> <7db1d01b0811072005y2248d86bwf492c7fdb317d96e@mail.gmail.com> <49155DA0.50000@opus40.org> Message-ID: <7db1d01b0811080913s6c057742rbf05d1784fb8efb5@mail.gmail.com> Tad, until this email of yours I didnae know that you were Opus 40-01. Signing an email helps, if there're no other evident clues. I never have any difficulty knowing who you are on petc. How come? Appreciate your explanation below, Judy 2008/11/8 TheOldMole > Basically, my number-name comes from having set up my mailbox wrong when I > first signed up with the web hosting service, when I was starting to create > the Opus 40 website. > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081108/ea15545f/attachment.html From Opus40-01 at opus40.org Sat Nov 8 13:06:59 2008 From: Opus40-01 at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:30 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Poetic Justice In-Reply-To: <7db1d01b0811080913s6c057742rbf05d1784fb8efb5@mail.gmail.com> References: <380-22008115718742789@M2W014.mail2web.com> <7db1d01b0811071041k20233254pf725ef6ef8ead2f5@mail.gmail.com> <4915092C.7030504@opus40.org> <7db1d01b0811072005y2248d86bwf492c7fdb317d96e@mail.gmail.com> <49155DA0.50000@opus40.org> <7db1d01b0811080913s6c057742rbf05d1784fb8efb5@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4915D543.4000205@opus40.org> I should make sure to sign those. The reason it never happens on Poetc is that I'm not enrolled under both e-mail addies there, so I can't post to the list from opus40-01. Actually, opus40-01 and tad@opus40 are the exact same email address. The reason why it has two names is that I screwed things up when I originally registered it. When I send an email from home, using Outlook Express, it gives Tad in the From field, and puts my sig line at the end. When I go online from my office, and use mail2web.com to get and send email, I can only sigm on there as Opus40-01. If none of this makes much sense, it doesn't to me, either. Judy Prince wrote: > Tad, until this email of yours I didnae know that you were Opus 40-01. > > Signing an email helps, if there're no other evident clues. I never > have any difficulty knowing who you are on petc. How come? > > Appreciate your explanation below, > > Judy > > 2008/11/8 TheOldMole > > > Basically, my number-name comes from having set up my mailbox > wrong when I first signed up with the web hosting service, when I > was starting to create the Opus 40 website. > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ Don't forget to order your copy of FILM NOIR! http://stores.lulu.com/store.php?fAcctID=2712239 From rog3r.day at gmail.com Sat Nov 8 15:07:39 2008 From: rog3r.day at gmail.com (Roger Day) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:30 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Poetic Justice In-Reply-To: <4915D543.4000205@opus40.org> References: <380-22008115718742789@M2W014.mail2web.com> <7db1d01b0811071041k20233254pf725ef6ef8ead2f5@mail.gmail.com> <4915092C.7030504@opus40.org> <7db1d01b0811072005y2248d86bwf492c7fdb317d96e@mail.gmail.com> <49155DA0.50000@opus40.org> <7db1d01b0811080913s6c057742rbf05d1784fb8efb5@mail.gmail.com> <4915D543.4000205@opus40.org> Message-ID: dude, my eyes rolled on the first four words. You want lead a complicated email style. I will make no attempt to follow it. My responses will be equally ... random. Roger On Sat, Nov 8, 2008 at 6:06 PM, TheOldMole wrote: > I should make sure to sign those. The reason it never happens on Poetc is > that I'm not enrolled under both e-mail addies there, so I can't post to the > list from opus40-01. > > Actually, opus40-01 and tad@opus40 are the exact same email address. The > reason why it has two names is that I screwed things up when I originally > registered it. When I send an email from home, using Outlook Express, it > gives Tad in the From field, and puts my sig line at the end. When I go > online from my office, and use mail2web.com to get and send email, I can > only sigm on there as Opus40-01. If none of this makes much sense, it > doesn't to me, either. > > Judy Prince wrote: >> >> Tad, until this email of yours I didnae know that you were Opus 40-01. >> >> Signing an email helps, if there're no other evident clues. I never have >> any difficulty knowing who you are on petc. How come? >> >> Appreciate your explanation below, >> >> Judy >> >> 2008/11/8 TheOldMole > >> >> Basically, my number-name comes from having set up my mailbox >> wrong when I first signed up with the web hosting service, when I >> was starting to create the Opus 40 website. >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> > > -- > Tad Richards > http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ > http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ > > Don't forget to order your copy of FILM NOIR! > http://stores.lulu.com/store.php?fAcctID=2712239 > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- My Stuff: http://www.badstep.net/ "I began to warm and chill to objects and their fields" Nick Cave & The Bad Seeds From Opus40-01 at opus40.org Sat Nov 8 15:09:43 2008 From: Opus40-01 at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:30 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Poetic Justice In-Reply-To: References: <380-22008115718742789@M2W014.mail2web.com> <7db1d01b0811071041k20233254pf725ef6ef8ead2f5@mail.gmail.com> <4915092C.7030504@opus40.org> <7db1d01b0811072005y2248d86bwf492c7fdb317d96e@mail.gmail.com> <49155DA0.50000@opus40.org> <7db1d01b0811080913s6c057742rbf05d1784fb8efb5@mail.gmail.com> <4915D543.4000205@opus40.org> Message-ID: <4915F207.1080303@opus40.org> I can stop posting altogether if that'll make you happier. Roger Day wrote: > dude, my eyes rolled on the first four words. You want lead a > complicated email style. I will make no attempt to follow it. My > responses will be equally ... random. > > Roger > > On Sat, Nov 8, 2008 at 6:06 PM, TheOldMole wrote: > >> I should make sure to sign those. The reason it never happens on Poetc is >> that I'm not enrolled under both e-mail addies there, so I can't post to the >> list from opus40-01. >> >> Actually, opus40-01 and tad@opus40 are the exact same email address. The >> reason why it has two names is that I screwed things up when I originally >> registered it. When I send an email from home, using Outlook Express, it >> gives Tad in the From field, and puts my sig line at the end. When I go >> online from my office, and use mail2web.com to get and send email, I can >> only sigm on there as Opus40-01. If none of this makes much sense, it >> doesn't to me, either. >> >> Judy Prince wrote: >> >>> Tad, until this email of yours I didnae know that you were Opus 40-01. >>> >>> Signing an email helps, if there're no other evident clues. I never have >>> any difficulty knowing who you are on petc. How come? >>> >>> Appreciate your explanation below, >>> >>> Judy >>> >>> 2008/11/8 TheOldMole > >>> >>> Basically, my number-name comes from having set up my mailbox >>> wrong when I first signed up with the web hosting service, when I >>> was starting to create the Opus 40 website. >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> New-Poetry mailing list >>> New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu >>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>> >>> >> -- >> Tad Richards >> http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ >> http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ >> >> Don't forget to order your copy of FILM NOIR! >> http://stores.lulu.com/store.php?fAcctID=2712239 >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > > > > -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ Don't forget to order your copy of FILM NOIR! http://stores.lulu.com/store.php?fAcctID=2712239 From jeff.newberry at gmail.com Sat Nov 8 15:15:32 2008 From: jeff.newberry at gmail.com (Jeff Newberry) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:30 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Al Maginnes on Poetry Daily Message-ID: <731bb17a0811081215p3af43173jb672e403379130d6@mail.gmail.com> Our own Al Maginnes has a poem up at Poetry Daily today. It's from his fine new book, *GHOST ALPHABET*, which you should own--today. http://www.poems.com/poem.php?date=14192 Best, Jeff Newberry -- Blog: http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081108/f6f9efba/attachment.html From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sat Nov 8 16:21:18 2008 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:30 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Poetic Justice In-Reply-To: <4915F207.1080303@opus40.org> References: <380-22008115718742789@M2W014.mail2web.com> <7db1d01b0811071041k20233254pf725ef6ef8ead2f5@mail.gmail.com> <4915092C.7030504@opus40.org> <7db1d01b0811072005y2248d86bwf492c7fdb317d96e@mail.gmail.com> <49155DA0.50000@opus40.org> <7db1d01b0811080913s6c057742rbf05d1784fb8efb5@mail.gmail.com> <4915D543.4000205@opus40.org> <4915F207.1080303@opus40.org> Message-ID: <491602CE.9010901@nut-n-but.net> TheOldMole wrote: > I can stop posting altogether if that'll make you happier. > > Roger Day wrote: Yay!!! (Just kidding, Mole. I still don't know who's who here--though I've always hoped you were Bill Gates trying to find a poet worth dumping some money on.) --Bob G. From rog3r.day at gmail.com Sat Nov 8 16:21:18 2008 From: rog3r.day at gmail.com (Roger Day) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:30 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Poetic Justice In-Reply-To: <4915F207.1080303@opus40.org> References: <380-22008115718742789@M2W014.mail2web.com> <7db1d01b0811071041k20233254pf725ef6ef8ead2f5@mail.gmail.com> <4915092C.7030504@opus40.org> <7db1d01b0811072005y2248d86bwf492c7fdb317d96e@mail.gmail.com> <49155DA0.50000@opus40.org> <7db1d01b0811080913s6c057742rbf05d1784fb8efb5@mail.gmail.com> <4915D543.4000205@opus40.org> <4915F207.1080303@opus40.org> Message-ID: Only if it will make *you* happier. Roger On Sat, Nov 8, 2008 at 8:09 PM, TheOldMole wrote: > I can stop posting altogether if that'll make you happier. > > Roger Day wrote: >> >> dude, my eyes rolled on the first four words. You want lead a >> complicated email style. I will make no attempt to follow it. My >> responses will be equally ... random. >> >> Roger >> >> On Sat, Nov 8, 2008 at 6:06 PM, TheOldMole wrote: >> >>> >>> I should make sure to sign those. The reason it never happens on Poetc is >>> that I'm not enrolled under both e-mail addies there, so I can't post to >>> the >>> list from opus40-01. >>> >>> Actually, opus40-01 and tad@opus40 are the exact same email address. The >>> reason why it has two names is that I screwed things up when I originally >>> registered it. When I send an email from home, using Outlook Express, it >>> gives Tad in the From field, and puts my sig line at the end. When I go >>> online from my office, and use mail2web.com to get and send email, I can >>> only sigm on there as Opus40-01. If none of this makes much sense, it >>> doesn't to me, either. >>> >>> Judy Prince wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> Tad, until this email of yours I didnae know that you were Opus 40-01. >>>> >>>> Signing an email helps, if there're no other evident clues. I never >>>> have >>>> any difficulty knowing who you are on petc. How come? >>>> >>>> Appreciate your explanation below, >>>> >>>> Judy >>>> >>>> 2008/11/8 TheOldMole >>> > >>>> >>>> Basically, my number-name comes from having set up my mailbox >>>> wrong when I first signed up with the web hosting service, when I >>>> was starting to create the Opus 40 website. >>>> >>>> >>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> New-Poetry mailing list >>>> New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu >>>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>>> >>>> >>> >>> -- >>> Tad Richards >>> http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ >>> http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ >>> >>> Don't forget to order your copy of FILM NOIR! >>> http://stores.lulu.com/store.php?fAcctID=2712239 >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> New-Poetry mailing list >>> New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu >>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>> >>> >> >> >> >> > > -- > Tad Richards > http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ > http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ > > Don't forget to order your copy of FILM NOIR! > http://stores.lulu.com/store.php?fAcctID=2712239 > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- My Stuff: http://www.badstep.net/ "I began to warm and chill to objects and their fields" Nick Cave & The Bad Seeds From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Sat Nov 8 16:24:53 2008 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:30 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Al Maginnes on Poetry Daily In-Reply-To: <731bb17a0811081215p3af43173jb672e403379130d6@mail.gmail.com> References: <731bb17a0811081215p3af43173jb672e403379130d6@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4b65c2d70811081324y1e90ea3cq63335ff664729577@mail.gmail.com> Congratulations to Al Maginnes, an excellent poem! On Sat, Nov 8, 2008 at 9:15 PM, Jeff Newberry wrote: > Our own Al Maginnes has a poem up at Poetry Daily today. It's from his > fine new book, *GHOST ALPHABET*, which you should own--today. > > http://www.poems.com/poem.php?date=14192 > > Best, > Jeff Newberry > > -- > Blog: http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081108/ab3f3c67/attachment.html From jbalizsprince at googlemail.com Sat Nov 8 16:28:58 2008 From: jbalizsprince at googlemail.com (Judy Prince) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:31 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Poetic Justice In-Reply-To: References: <380-22008115718742789@M2W014.mail2web.com> <7db1d01b0811071041k20233254pf725ef6ef8ead2f5@mail.gmail.com> <4915092C.7030504@opus40.org> <7db1d01b0811072005y2248d86bwf492c7fdb317d96e@mail.gmail.com> <49155DA0.50000@opus40.org> <7db1d01b0811080913s6c057742rbf05d1784fb8efb5@mail.gmail.com> <4915D543.4000205@opus40.org> <4915F207.1080303@opus40.org> Message-ID: <7db1d01b0811081328m4dcaf2dfv255364598513d573@mail.gmail.com> Children, children..... Apologize to your brother, or I'll smack you upside your heid. >From Gramma who spent many years on the southside of Chicago 2008/11/8 Roger Day > Only if it will make *you* happier. > > Roger > > On Sat, Nov 8, 2008 at 8:09 PM, TheOldMole wrote: > > I can stop posting altogether if that'll make you happier. > > > > Roger Day wrote: > >> > >> dude, my eyes rolled on the first four words. You want lead a > >> complicated email style. I will make no attempt to follow it. My > >> responses will be equally ... random. > >> > >> Roger > >> > >> On Sat, Nov 8, 2008 at 6:06 PM, TheOldMole > wrote: > >> > >>> > >>> I should make sure to sign those. The reason it never happens on Poetc > is > >>> that I'm not enrolled under both e-mail addies there, so I can't post > to > >>> the > >>> list from opus40-01. > >>> > >>> Actually, opus40-01 and tad@opus40 are the exact same email address. > The > >>> reason why it has two names is that I screwed things up when I > originally > >>> registered it. When I send an email from home, using Outlook Express, > it > >>> gives Tad in the From field, and puts my sig line at the end. When I go > >>> online from my office, and use mail2web.com to get and send email, I > can > >>> only sigm on there as Opus40-01. If none of this makes much sense, it > >>> doesn't to me, either. > >>> > >>> Judy Prince wrote: > >>> > >>>> > >>>> Tad, until this email of yours I didnae know that you were Opus 40-01. > >>>> > >>>> Signing an email helps, if there're no other evident clues. I never > >>>> have > >>>> any difficulty knowing who you are on petc. How come? > >>>> > >>>> Appreciate your explanation below, > >>>> > >>>> Judy > >>>> > >>>> 2008/11/8 TheOldMole >>>> > > >>>> > >>>> Basically, my number-name comes from having set up my mailbox > >>>> wrong when I first signed up with the web hosting service, when I > >>>> was starting to create the Opus 40 website. > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >>>> > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> New-Poetry mailing list > >>>> New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > >>>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > >>>> > >>>> > >>> > >>> -- > >>> Tad Richards > >>> http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ > >>> http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ > >>> > >>> Don't forget to order your copy of FILM NOIR! > >>> http://stores.lulu.com/store.php?fAcctID=2712239 > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> New-Poetry mailing list > >>> New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > >>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > >>> > >>> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > > > -- > > Tad Richards > > http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ > > http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ > > > > Don't forget to order your copy of FILM NOIR! > > http://stores.lulu.com/store.php?fAcctID=2712239 > > > > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > > -- > My Stuff: http://www.badstep.net/ > "I began to warm and chill > to objects and their fields" > Nick Cave & The Bad Seeds > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081108/4ce548e6/attachment.html From rog3r.day at gmail.com Sat Nov 8 16:38:58 2008 From: rog3r.day at gmail.com (Roger Day) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:31 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Poetic Justice In-Reply-To: <7db1d01b0811081328m4dcaf2dfv255364598513d573@mail.gmail.com> References: <380-22008115718742789@M2W014.mail2web.com> <4915092C.7030504@opus40.org> <7db1d01b0811072005y2248d86bwf492c7fdb317d96e@mail.gmail.com> <49155DA0.50000@opus40.org> <7db1d01b0811080913s6c057742rbf05d1784fb8efb5@mail.gmail.com> <4915D543.4000205@opus40.org> <4915F207.1080303@opus40.org> <7db1d01b0811081328m4dcaf2dfv255364598513d573@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: After all these years, you *still* don't know who're you're talking to ... ye gods. Fuck you, you stupid old bitch. Roger On Sat, Nov 8, 2008 at 9:28 PM, Judy Prince wrote: > Children, children..... > Apologize to your brother, or I'll smack you upside your heid. > From Gramma who spent many years on the southside of Chicago > > 2008/11/8 Roger Day >> >> Only if it will make *you* happier. >> >> Roger >> >> On Sat, Nov 8, 2008 at 8:09 PM, TheOldMole wrote: >> > I can stop posting altogether if that'll make you happier. >> > >> > Roger Day wrote: >> >> >> >> dude, my eyes rolled on the first four words. You want lead a >> >> complicated email style. I will make no attempt to follow it. My >> >> responses will be equally ... random. >> >> >> >> Roger >> >> >> >> On Sat, Nov 8, 2008 at 6:06 PM, TheOldMole >> >> wrote: >> >> >> >>> >> >>> I should make sure to sign those. The reason it never happens on Poetc >> >>> is >> >>> that I'm not enrolled under both e-mail addies there, so I can't post >> >>> to >> >>> the >> >>> list from opus40-01. >> >>> >> >>> Actually, opus40-01 and tad@opus40 are the exact same email address. >> >>> The >> >>> reason why it has two names is that I screwed things up when I >> >>> originally >> >>> registered it. When I send an email from home, using Outlook Express, >> >>> it >> >>> gives Tad in the From field, and puts my sig line at the end. When I >> >>> go >> >>> online from my office, and use mail2web.com to get and send email, I >> >>> can >> >>> only sigm on there as Opus40-01. If none of this makes much sense, it >> >>> doesn't to me, either. >> >>> >> >>> Judy Prince wrote: >> >>> >> >>>> >> >>>> Tad, until this email of yours I didnae know that you were Opus >> >>>> 40-01. >> >>>> >> >>>> Signing an email helps, if there're no other evident clues. I never >> >>>> have >> >>>> any difficulty knowing who you are on petc. How come? >> >>>> >> >>>> Appreciate your explanation below, >> >>>> >> >>>> Judy >> >>>> >> >>>> 2008/11/8 TheOldMole > >>>> > >> >>>> >> >>>> Basically, my number-name comes from having set up my mailbox >> >>>> wrong when I first signed up with the web hosting service, when I >> >>>> was starting to create the Opus 40 website. >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >>>> >> >>>> _______________________________________________ >> >>>> New-Poetry mailing list >> >>>> New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu >> >>>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>> >> >>> -- >> >>> Tad Richards >> >>> http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ >> >>> http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ >> >>> >> >>> Don't forget to order your copy of FILM NOIR! >> >>> http://stores.lulu.com/store.php?fAcctID=2712239 >> >>> >> >>> _______________________________________________ >> >>> New-Poetry mailing list >> >>> New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu >> >>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >>> >> >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > >> > -- >> > Tad Richards >> > http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ >> > http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ >> > >> > Don't forget to order your copy of FILM NOIR! >> > http://stores.lulu.com/store.php?fAcctID=2712239 >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > New-Poetry mailing list >> > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu >> > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> > >> >> >> >> -- >> My Stuff: http://www.badstep.net/ >> "I began to warm and chill >> to objects and their fields" >> Nick Cave & The Bad Seeds >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- My Stuff: http://www.badstep.net/ "I began to warm and chill to objects and their fields" Nick Cave & The Bad Seeds From jbalizsprince at googlemail.com Sat Nov 8 16:53:30 2008 From: jbalizsprince at googlemail.com (Judy Prince) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:31 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Poetic Justice In-Reply-To: References: <380-22008115718742789@M2W014.mail2web.com> <7db1d01b0811072005y2248d86bwf492c7fdb317d96e@mail.gmail.com> <49155DA0.50000@opus40.org> <7db1d01b0811080913s6c057742rbf05d1784fb8efb5@mail.gmail.com> <4915D543.4000205@opus40.org> <4915F207.1080303@opus40.org> <7db1d01b0811081328m4dcaf2dfv255364598513d573@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7db1d01b0811081353v4df8af27pe36338619a9db61@mail.gmail.com> Who am I talking to, then? A person who has sunk so low as this? Your response shocks and saddens me. And I don't understand the least bit of what you mean when you say I 'still don't know who' I'm talking to'. It would seem that you're right. I don't know who I'm talking to. How very very sad. Judy 2008/11/8 Roger Day > After all these years, you *still* don't know who're you're talking to > ... ye gods. > > Fuck you, you stupid old bitch. > > Roger > > On Sat, Nov 8, 2008 at 9:28 PM, Judy Prince > wrote: > > Children, children..... > > Apologize to your brother, or I'll smack you upside your heid. > > From Gramma who spent many years on the southside of Chicago > > > > 2008/11/8 Roger Day > >> > >> Only if it will make *you* happier. > >> > >> Roger > >> > >> On Sat, Nov 8, 2008 at 8:09 PM, TheOldMole > wrote: > >> > I can stop posting altogether if that'll make you happier. > >> > > >> > Roger Day wrote: > >> >> > >> >> dude, my eyes rolled on the first four words. You want lead a > >> >> complicated email style. I will make no attempt to follow it. My > >> >> responses will be equally ... random. > >> >> > >> >> Roger > >> >> > >> >> On Sat, Nov 8, 2008 at 6:06 PM, TheOldMole > >> >> wrote: > >> >> > >> >>> > >> >>> I should make sure to sign those. The reason it never happens on > Poetc > >> >>> is > >> >>> that I'm not enrolled under both e-mail addies there, so I can't > post > >> >>> to > >> >>> the > >> >>> list from opus40-01. > >> >>> > >> >>> Actually, opus40-01 and tad@opus40 are the exact same email > address. > >> >>> The > >> >>> reason why it has two names is that I screwed things up when I > >> >>> originally > >> >>> registered it. When I send an email from home, using Outlook > Express, > >> >>> it > >> >>> gives Tad in the From field, and puts my sig line at the end. When I > >> >>> go > >> >>> online from my office, and use mail2web.com to get and send email, > I > >> >>> can > >> >>> only sigm on there as Opus40-01. If none of this makes much sense, > it > >> >>> doesn't to me, either. > >> >>> > >> >>> Judy Prince wrote: > >> >>> > >> >>>> > >> >>>> Tad, until this email of yours I didnae know that you were Opus > >> >>>> 40-01. > >> >>>> > >> >>>> Signing an email helps, if there're no other evident clues. I > never > >> >>>> have > >> >>>> any difficulty knowing who you are on petc. How come? > >> >>>> > >> >>>> Appreciate your explanation below, > >> >>>> > >> >>>> Judy > >> >>>> > >> >>>> 2008/11/8 TheOldMole >> >>>> > > >> >>>> > >> >>>> Basically, my number-name comes from having set up my mailbox > >> >>>> wrong when I first signed up with the web hosting service, when I > >> >>>> was starting to create the Opus 40 website. > >> >>>> > >> >>>> > >> >>>> > >> >>>> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >> >>>> > >> >>>> _______________________________________________ > >> >>>> New-Poetry mailing list > >> >>>> New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > >> >>>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > >> >>>> > >> >>>> > >> >>> > >> >>> -- > >> >>> Tad Richards > >> >>> http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ > >> >>> http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ > >> >>> > >> >>> Don't forget to order your copy of FILM NOIR! > >> >>> http://stores.lulu.com/store.php?fAcctID=2712239 > >> >>> > >> >>> _______________________________________________ > >> >>> New-Poetry mailing list > >> >>> New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > >> >>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> > > >> > -- > >> > Tad Richards > >> > http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ > >> > http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ > >> > > >> > Don't forget to order your copy of FILM NOIR! > >> > http://stores.lulu.com/store.php?fAcctID=2712239 > >> > > >> > _______________________________________________ > >> > New-Poetry mailing list > >> > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > >> > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > >> > > >> > >> > >> > >> -- > >> My Stuff: http://www.badstep.net/ > >> "I began to warm and chill > >> to objects and their fields" > >> Nick Cave & The Bad Seeds > >> _______________________________________________ > >> New-Poetry mailing list > >> New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > > > > -- > My Stuff: http://www.badstep.net/ > "I began to warm and chill > to objects and their fields" > Nick Cave & The Bad Seeds > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081108/e7e69837/attachment.html From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sat Nov 8 17:04:29 2008 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:31 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Poetic Justice In-Reply-To: References: <380-22008115718742789@M2W014.mail2web.com><4915092C.7030504@opus40.org><7db1d01b0811072005y2248d86bwf492c7fdb317d96e @mail.gmail.com><49155DA0.50000@opus40.org><7db1d01b0811080913s6c057742rbf05d1784fb8efb5@mail.gmail.com><4915D543.4000205@opus4 0.org><4915F207.1080303@opus40.org><7db1d01b0811081328m4dcaf2dfv255364598513d573@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <49160CED.8020503@nut-n-but.net> Roger Day wrote: > After all these years, you *still* don't know who're you're talking to > ... ye gods. > > Fuck you, you stupid old bitch. > > Roger Roger, lighten up! Yikes. Some of us would prefer you not get booted from New-Poetry, which I fear has decorum rules. --Bob G. From amyhappens at yahoo.com Sat Nov 8 20:52:19 2008 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:31 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Poetic Justice In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <336510.43355.qm@web83302.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Who is Roger Day that he gets to bray here like a complete and utter ass?? Or an incomplete one, apparently.? Amy p.s.? Or should I have written "sexist pig" as the men are immune from his Sophisticated name calling?? But the barn animals are getting pissed now ... --- On Sat, 11/8/08, Roger Day wrote: From: Roger Day Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Re: Poetic Justice To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &, Views" Date: Saturday, November 8, 2008, 4:38 PM After all these years, you *still* don't know who're you're talking to ... ye gods. Fuck you, you stupid old bitch. Roger On Sat, Nov 8, 2008 at 9:28 PM, Judy Prince wrote: > Children, children..... > Apologize to your brother, or I'll smack you upside your heid. > From Gramma who spent many years on the southside of Chicago > > 2008/11/8 Roger Day >> >> Only if it will make *you* happier. >> >> Roger >> >> On Sat, Nov 8, 2008 at 8:09 PM, TheOldMole wrote: >> > I can stop posting altogether if that'll make you happier. >> > >> > Roger Day wrote: >> >> >> >> dude, my eyes rolled on the first four words. You want lead a >> >> complicated email style. I will make no attempt to follow it. My >> >> responses will be equally ... random. >> >> >> >> Roger >> >> >> >> On Sat, Nov 8, 2008 at 6:06 PM, TheOldMole >> >> wrote: >> >> >> >>> >> >>> I should make sure to sign those. The reason it never happens on Poetc >> >>> is >> >>> that I'm not enrolled under both e-mail addies there, so I can't post >> >>> to >> >>> the >> >>> list from opus40-01. >> >>> >> >>> Actually, opus40-01 and tad@opus40 are the exact same email address. >> >>> The >> >>> reason why it has two names is that I screwed things up when I >> >>> originally >> >>> registered it. When I send an email from home, using Outlook Express, >> >>> it >> >>> gives Tad in the From field, and puts my sig line at the end. When I >> >>> go >> >>> online from my office, and use mail2web.com to get and send email, I >> >>> can >> >>> only sigm on there as Opus40-01. If none of this makes much sense, it >> >>> doesn't to me, either. >> >>> >> >>> Judy Prince wrote: >> >>> >> >>>> >> >>>> Tad, until this email of yours I didnae know that you were Opus >> >>>> 40-01. >> >>>> >> >>>> Signing an email helps, if there're no other evident clues. I never >> >>>> have >> >>>> any difficulty knowing who you are on petc. How come? >> >>>> >> >>>> Appreciate your explanation below, >> >>>> >> >>>> Judy >> >>>> >> >>>> 2008/11/8 TheOldMole > >>>> > >> >>>> >> >>>> Basically, my number-name comes from having set up my mailbox >> >>>> wrong when I first signed up with the web hosting service, when I >> >>>> was starting to create the Opus 40 website. >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >>>> >> >>>> _______________________________________________ >> >>>> New-Poetry mailing list >> >>>> New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu >> >>>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>> >> >>> -- >> >>> Tad Richards >> >>> http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ >> >>> http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ >> >>> >> >>> Don't forget to order your copy of FILM NOIR! >> >>> http://stores.lulu.com/store.php?fAcctID=2712239 >> >>> >> >>> _______________________________________________ >> >>> New-Poetry mailing list >> >>> New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu >> >>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >>> >> >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > >> > -- >> > Tad Richards >> > http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ >> > http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ >> > >> > Don't forget to order your copy of FILM NOIR! >> > http://stores.lulu.com/store.php?fAcctID=2712239 >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > New-Poetry mailing list >> > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu >> > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> > >> >> >> >> -- >> My Stuff: http://www.badstep.net/ >> "I began to warm and chill >> to objects and their fields" >> Nick Cave & The Bad Seeds >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- My Stuff: http://www.badstep.net/ "I began to warm and chill to objects and their fields" Nick Cave & The Bad Seeds _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081108/e8b6f15f/attachment.html From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Sun Nov 9 05:24:33 2008 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:31 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Poetic Justice In-Reply-To: <336510.43355.qm@web83302.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: <336510.43355.qm@web83302.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4b65c2d70811090224i253bb7lc625e88a0d4d1d00@mail.gmail.com> The step from Olympian heights to the stinking barn is just a brief step. Judy Prince, exactly in July (I was discussing my thesis, and close to the exams for my two extra-courses, and had to face the endless row of messages that needed an answer from me both front and back channel...) was a highly disruptive member on Poetryetc specifically against Joseph Duemer, my co-manager. Things got so out of hand, seen also the intervention of the ex-manager of Poetryetc, that both Duemer and me decided to resign and give the management to the previous owner who had been working hard back-channel to get us out. Maybe Judy Prince was nothing but the product of a further manipulation of the said ex-Manager, maybe not. I cannot say because I still do not know and I cannot understand why she violently attacked Joseph Duemer. Roger Day is and was on both lists. I do not know why he came out with such words, nor is my intention to excuse him. I just thought I needed to explain publicly my previous comment about Poetryetc, seen that, as it seems to me, all threads end up leading to the same knot. I also do not understand why Judy Prince, since she knows of all the recent problems on Poetryetc, and was probably one of the main people who stirred up discontent, started praising that list right on a list of which I am a regular contributor. I just cannot find any answers, also because I never saw Judy Prince as a mean person, i.e. and in aethereal terms, I never saw her as a troll. I am also writing this to try to contain any accusations there might be against Amy King. She logically read the insult Roger Day addressed to Judy Prince and reacted as any well-mannered person would do. As Nietzsche would state, there is much more darkness than light. My regards, Anny Ballardini On Sun, Nov 9, 2008 at 2:52 AM, amy king wrote: > Who is Roger Day that he gets to bray here like a complete and utter ass? > Or an incomplete one, apparently. > > Amy > > p.s. Or should I have written "sexist pig" as the men are immune from his > Sophisticated name calling? But the barn animals are getting pissed now ... > > > > --- On *Sat, 11/8/08, Roger Day * wrote: > > From: Roger Day > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Re: Poetic Justice > To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &, Views" < > new-poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu> > Date: Saturday, November 8, 2008, 4:38 PM > > > After all these years, you *still* don't know who're you're talking > to > ... ye gods. > > Fuck you, you stupid old > bitch. > > Roger > > On Sat, Nov 8, 2008 at 9:28 PM, Judy Prince > wrote: > > Children, children..... > > Apologize to your brother, or I'll smack you upside your heid. > > From Gramma who spent many years on the southside of Chicago > > > > 2008/11/8 Roger Day > >> > >> Only if it will make *you* happier. > >> > >> Roger > >> > >> On Sat, Nov 8, 2008 at 8:09 PM, TheOldMole > wrote: > >> > I can stop posting altogether if that'll make you happier. > >> > > >> > Roger Day wrote: > >> >> > >> >> dude, my eyes rolled on the first four words. You want lead a > >> >> complicated email style. I will make no attempt to follow > it. My > >> >> responses will be equally ... random. > >> >> > >> > >> Roger > >> >> > >> >> On Sat, Nov 8, 2008 at 6:06 PM, TheOldMole > > >> >> wrote: > >> >> > >> >>> > >> >>> I should make sure to sign those. The reason it never > happens on Poetc > >> >>> is > >> >>> that I'm not enrolled under both e-mail addies there, > so I can't post > >> >>> to > >> >>> the > >> >>> list from opus40-01. > >> >>> > >> >>> Actually, opus40-01 and tad@opus40 are the exact same > email address. > >> >>> The > >> >>> reason why it has two names is that I screwed things up > when I > >> >>> originally > >> >>> registered it. When I send an email from home, using > Outlook Express, > >> >>> it > >> >>> > gives Tad in the From field, and puts my sig line at the > end. When I > >> >>> go > >> >>> online from my office, and use mail2web.com to get and > send email, I > >> >>> can > >> >>> only sigm on there as Opus40-01. If none of this makes > much sense, it > >> >>> doesn't to me, either. > >> >>> > >> >>> Judy Prince wrote: > >> >>> > >> >>>> > >> >>>> Tad, until this email of yours I didnae know that you > were Opus > >> >>>> 40-01. > >> >>>> > >> >>>> Signing an email helps, if there're no other > evident clues. I never > >> >>>> have > >> >>>> any difficulty knowing who you are on petc. How > come? > >> >>>> > >> >>>> Appreciate your explanation > below, > >> >>>> > >> >>>> Judy > >> >>>> > >> >>>> 2008/11/8 TheOldMole >> >>>> > > >> >>>> > >> >>>> Basically, my number-name comes from having set up > my mailbox > >> >>>> wrong when I first signed up with the web hosting > service, when I > >> >>>> was starting to create the Opus 40 website. > >> >>>> > >> >>>> > >> >>>> > >> >>>> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >> >>>> > >> >>>> _______________________________________________ > >> >>>> New-Poetry mailing list > >> >>>> New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > >> > >>>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > >> >>>> > >> >>>> > >> >>> > >> >>> -- > >> >>> Tad Richards > >> >>> http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ > >> >>> http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ > >> >>> > >> >>> Don't forget to order your copy of FILM NOIR! > >> >>> http://stores.lulu.com/store.php?fAcctID=2712239 > >> >>> > >> >>> _______________________________________________ > >> >>> New-Poetry mailing list > >> >>> New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > >> >>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> > > >> > -- > >> > > Tad Richards > >> > http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ > >> > http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ > >> > > >> > Don't forget to order your copy of FILM NOIR! > >> > http://stores.lulu.com/store.php?fAcctID=2712239 > >> > > >> > _______________________________________________ > >> > New-Poetry mailing list > >> > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > >> > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > >> > > >> > >> > >> > >> -- > >> My Stuff: http://www.badstep.net/ > >> "I began to warm and chill > >> to objects and their fields" > >> Nick Cave & The Bad Seeds > >> _______________________________________________ > >> New-Poetry mailing list > >> New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > > > > -- > My Stuff: http://www.badstep.net/ > "I began to warm and chill > to objects and their fields" > Nick Cave & The Bad Seeds > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081109/a82c5559/attachment.html From lsgrimes at stonegulch.com Sun Nov 9 05:30:37 2008 From: lsgrimes at stonegulch.com (Linda Sue Grimes) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:31 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Walt Whitman Message-ID: <316D585F882044E7A1E4030A81303D56@LindaSue> Did Walt Whitman ever win any awards? (I got this question from AllExperts, where I volunteer to answer questions about poetry. I can't think of any awards Whitman won, so I turn to other experts.) Thanks in advance... lsg -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081109/5e0796f0/attachment.html From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sun Nov 9 06:14:20 2008 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:31 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Poetic Justice In-Reply-To: <4b65c2d70811090224i253bb7lc625e88a0d4d1d00@mail.gmail.com> References: <336510.43355.qm@web83302.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <4b65c2d70811090224i253bb7lc625e88a0d4d1d00@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4916C60C.4050600@nut-n-but.net> I knew you had to be at the bottom of all this, Eny. Which, of course, is why I like you so much! --Bob From editor at pavementsaw.org Sun Nov 9 09:16:22 2008 From: editor at pavementsaw.org (David Baratier) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:31 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Pavement Saw Chapbook Contest Message-ID: <149340.36396.qm@web45610.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> This can be paid for directly through our website if you are submitting electronically. It might be cheaper to submit electronically with the cost of postage and to print out a manuscript. Pavement Saw Chapbook Contest <<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>> $500 and 50 copies of the winning chapbook will be awarded for the finest collection of poetry received. Everyone is allowed to submit regardless of previous publication history. Every entrant will receive the equivalent cost of the entry fee in Pavement Saw Press titles. The chapbooks are published in an edition of 400 copies plus overage. While chapbooks rarely receive exposure, ours have been reviewed in Poets and Writers, Publishers Weekly, The Georgia Review, Small Press Review and many others. Our previous winners have had subsequent full length books appear from a bevy of publishers including Curbstone Press, Cleveland State University Press, Bear Star Press, Blazevox Books, University of Georgia, and Hanging Loose Press. Submit up to 32 pages of poetry. Include a signed cover letter with your name, address, phone number, e-mail, publication credits, a brief biography and the title of the chapbook. Include a cover page with your contact information and the chapbook title. Include a second page with the chapbook title only. Do not include your name on any pages inside the manuscript except for the first title page. No need for a contents page. All chapbooks are selected blindly / anonymously. Entry fee: $15. If you wish to send via regular mail your manuscript should be accompanied by a check in the amount of $15.00 made payable to Pavement Saw Press. All US contributors to the contest will receive books, chapbooks and journals equal to, or more than, the entry fee. Add $3 ( US ) for other countries to cover the extra postal charge. Do not include an SASE for notification of results, this information will be sent with the free book. Do not send the only copy of your work. All manuscripts are recycled and individual comments on the manuscripts cannot be made. Manuscripts will be considered until December 31st, 2008 for the prize. This year the editor will be the judge and, as it should be, he promises not to chose former students, former or potential sexual partners, press interns, or people that can make him famous. In addition to the prize winner, sometimes another anonymous manuscript is published under a standard royalty contract. A decision will be reached by March. Entries should be sent to our address at the bottom of the page. If you wish to submit electronically, you should send $21.00 via paypal to info@pavementsaw.org. We will then send you an e-mail confirmation as well as where to e-mail the manuscript. Electronic submissions need to be sent as PDF files or as word (.doc or .docx) files. Other formats are not accepted. The extra cost is to cover the paypal fees as well as the time, labor, ink, and so on, to print out your manuscript. Previous Winners: Noah Eli Gordon, Acoustic Experience; Susan Terris, Marriage License; Dan Boehl, Work; Joshua Corey, Compostition Marble; Knute Skinner, The Other Shoe; Lisa Samuels, War Holdings; F. J. Bergmann, Sauce Robert; John Bradley, Add Musk Here; Amy King, The People Instruments; Will Nixon, The Fish are Laughing; Shelley Stenhouse, Pants; David Brooks, Right Livelihood; Douglas Goetsch, Wherever You Want; Joshua Mc Kinney, Permutations of the Gallery. Pavement Saw Press Chapbook Contest 321 Empire Street Montpelier, OH 43543 http://pavementsaw.org Be well David Baratier, Editor Pavement Saw Press 321 Empire Street Montpelier OH 43543 http://pavementsaw.org Subscribe to our e-mail listserv at http://pavementsaw.org/list/?p=subscribe&id=1 From Opus40-01 at opus40.org Sun Nov 9 09:50:51 2008 From: Opus40-01 at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:32 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Poetic Justice In-Reply-To: <4916C60C.4050600@nut-n-but.net> References: <336510.43355.qm@web83302.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <4b65c2d70811090224i253bb7lc625e88a0d4d1d00@mail.gmail.com> <4916C60C.4050600@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <4916F8CB.5000206@opus40.org> Leaving the Poetryetc. flap out of this, I wasn't going to write a letter of complaint if Roger Day's assaults had been only against me, but since they seem to be farther reaching, and really offensive, I'd like to add my voice to the protest. Attacks like these have no place on this list. Bob Grumman wrote: > I knew you had to be at the bottom of all this, Eny. Which, of > course, is why I like you so much! > > --Bob > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ Don't forget to order your copy of FILM NOIR! http://stores.lulu.com/store.php?fAcctID=2712239 From halvard at earthlink.net Sun Nov 9 11:17:41 2008 From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:32 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Walt Whitman In-Reply-To: <316D585F882044E7A1E4030A81303D56@LindaSue> References: <316D585F882044E7A1E4030A81303D56@LindaSue> Message-ID: <25ABCC2D-2B0F-4EC4-B2E3-FD6676BB6592@earthlink.net> There's a rest stop on the New Jersey Turnpike named after Walt. But, according to one source, no one working there knows who he was. I like that Walt published (and reviewed) his own books. Hal "Whenever a friend succeeds, a little something in me dies." --Gore Vidal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard@earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html On Nov 9, 2008, at 4:30 AM, Linda Sue Grimes wrote: > Did Walt Whitman ever win any awards? (I got this question from > AllExperts, where I volunteer to answer questions about poetry. I > can't think of any awards Whitman won, so I turn to other experts.) > > Thanks in advance... > > lsg > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081109/6928817b/attachment.html From grahamd at ripon.edu Sun Nov 9 11:38:30 2008 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:32 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Walt Whitman In-Reply-To: <25ABCC2D-2B0F-4EC4-B2E3-FD6676BB6592@earthlink.net> References: <316D585F882044E7A1E4030A81303D56@LindaSue> <25ABCC2D-2B0F-4EC4-B2E3-FD6676BB6592@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <16DD518C-8361-4E0B-B0CD-9ACB62C41FD5@ripon.edu> Whitman by the end of his life had achieved a certain amount of renown. But he was not in the public mind the radical of 1855, but rather the Good Gray Poet, a patriotic and fairly innocuous grandfatherly type. (A career trajectory akin to Frost's.) The Good Gray poet enjoyed some tribute banquets in his honor, a steady trickle of admirers and disciples, and so forth, but in his lifetime he was never considered a major figure by the establishment. Such honor went to Emerson, Longfellow, Whittier, et al. In any case, the contemporary system of awards & fellowships did not yet exist. Thus he never won a Pulitzer, a MacArthur, a Guggenheim, a Bollingen, a Ruth Lilly, etc., and probably would have lost out, anyway. Nor was he ever particularly in demand on the reading/lecture circuit, as brilliant performers like Emerson were. In the age of great orators, Whitman apparently was not one. As for publishing his own books, his 1855 *Leaves of Grass* is said to be the greatest poem that was ever produced, start to finish, by one hand: he wrote & revised it, set the type, ran the pages through the press (or some of them, at least), designed it, self-published it, sold it, reviewed it, and so forth. ======================================== David Graham grahamd@ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.mac.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== On Nov 9, 2008, at 10:17 AM, Halvard Johnson wrote: > There's a rest stop on the New Jersey Turnpike named after > Walt. But, according to one source, no one working there > knows who he was. > > I like that Walt published (and reviewed) his own books. > > Hal > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081109/671160a7/attachment.html From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sun Nov 9 12:43:13 2008 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:32 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Walt Whitman In-Reply-To: <16DD518C-8361-4E0B-B0CD-9ACB62C41FD5@ripon.edu> References: <316D585F882044E7A1E4030A81303D56@LindaSue><25ABCC2D-2B0F-4EC4-B2E3-FD6676BB6592@earthlink.net> <16DD518C-8361-4E0B-B0CD-9ACB62C41FD5@ripon.edu> Message-ID: <49172131.4080607@nut-n-but.net> David Graham wrote: > Whitman by the end of his life had achieved a certain amount of > renown. But he was not in the public mind the radical of 1855, but > rather the Good Gray Poet, a patriotic and fairly innocuous > grandfatherly type. (A career trajectory akin to Frost's.) > > The Good Gray poet enjoyed some tribute banquets in his honor, a > steady trickle of admirers and disciples, and so forth, but in his > lifetime he was never considered a major figure by the establishment. > Such honor went to Emerson, Longfellow, Whittier, et al. In any > case, the contemporary system of awards & fellowships did not yet > exist. Thus he never won a Pulitzer, a MacArthur, a Guggenheim, a > Bollingen, a Ruth Lilly, etc., and probably would have lost out, > anyway. Nor was he ever particularly in demand on the reading/lecture > circuit, as brilliant performers like Emerson were. In the age of > great orators, Whitman apparently was not one. > > As for publishing his own books, his 1855 *Leaves of Grass* is said to > be the greatest poem that was ever produced, start to finish, by one > hand: he wrote & revised it, set the type, ran the pages through the > press (or some of them, at least), designed it, self-published it, > sold it, reviewed it, and so forth. Ah, but did he make his press from scratch? I've read of some modern poets who have done that or come close to it. And now many poets have put out collections of their poetry in books they designed and made, now that it's quite simple to do that, and several of them are better than /Leaves of Grass/ in my biased opinion. Another some mainstreamers may accept as having equaled him is (I believe) William Blake, another who would have down great in the GooGarthur sweepstakes. --Bob G. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081109/3024b15e/attachment.html From Opus40-01 at opus40.org Sun Nov 9 12:48:45 2008 From: Opus40-01 at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:32 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Walt Whitman In-Reply-To: <49172131.4080607@nut-n-but.net> References: <316D585F882044E7A1E4030A81303D56@LindaSue><25ABCC2D-2B0F-4EC4-B2E3-FD6676BB6592@earthlink.net> <16DD518C-8361-4E0B-B0CD-9ACB62C41FD5@ripon.edu> <49172131.4080607@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <4917227D.7030605@opus40.org> Those mainstreamers. Walt Whitman...William Blake...have they no taste at all? Bob Grumman wrote: > David Graham wrote: >> Whitman by the end of his life had achieved a certain amount of >> renown. But he was not in the public mind the radical of 1855, but >> rather the Good Gray Poet, a patriotic and fairly innocuous >> grandfatherly type. (A career trajectory akin to Frost's.) >> >> The Good Gray poet enjoyed some tribute banquets in his honor, a >> steady trickle of admirers and disciples, and so forth, but in his >> lifetime he was never considered a major figure by the establishment. >> Such honor went to Emerson, Longfellow, Whittier, et al. In any >> case, the contemporary system of awards & fellowships did not yet >> exist. Thus he never won a Pulitzer, a MacArthur, a Guggenheim, a >> Bollingen, a Ruth Lilly, etc., and probably would have lost out, >> anyway. Nor was he ever particularly in demand on the >> reading/lecture circuit, as brilliant performers like Emerson were. >> In the age of great orators, Whitman apparently was not one. >> >> As for publishing his own books, his 1855 *Leaves of Grass* is said >> to be the greatest poem that was ever produced, start to finish, by >> one hand: he wrote & revised it, set the type, ran the pages through >> the press (or some of them, at least), designed it, self-published >> it, sold it, reviewed it, and so forth. > Ah, but did he make his press from scratch? I've read of some modern > poets who have done that or come close to it. And now many poets have > put out collections of their poetry in books they designed and made, > now that it's quite simple to do that, and several of them are better > than /Leaves of Grass/ in my biased opinion. Another some > mainstreamers may accept as having equaled him is (I believe) William > Blake, another who would have down great in the GooGarthur sweepstakes. > > --Bob G. > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ Don't forget to order your copy of FILM NOIR! http://stores.lulu.com/store.php?fAcctID=2712239 From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sun Nov 9 14:17:49 2008 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:32 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Walt Whitman In-Reply-To: <4917227D.7030605@opus40.org> References: <316D585F882044E7A1E4030A81303D56@LindaSue><25ABCC2D-2B0F-4EC4-B2E3-FD6676BB6592@earthlink.net> <16DD518C-8361-4E0B-B0CD-9ACB62C41FD5@ripon.edu><49172131.4080607@nut-n-but.net> <4917227D.7030605@opus40.org> Message-ID: <4917375D.7050307@nut-n-but.net> TheOldMole wrote: > Those mainstreamers. Walt Whitman...William Blake...have they no taste > at all? > First off, Mole, my post had nothing to do with their taste. Secondly, they were definitely not mainstreamers when they wrote. Whitman was sort of the equivalent of Charles Bernstein, a good self-promoter who got his share of noteriety but got little positive recognition until later in life. Bernstein is getting positive recognition faster than Whitman did, but--as an academic--he has always been much closer to the mainstream than Whitman ever was. And he isn't the poet Whitman was. Blake was more like just about all of us in visual poetry. When did he first get acclaimed? Fifty years after he died, an old man? Or was it longer than that? --Bob G. From Rsgwynn1 at cs.com Sun Nov 9 14:35:00 2008 From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com (Rsgwynn1@cs.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:32 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Walt Whitman Message-ID: In a message dated 11/9/2008 1:20:20 PM Central Standard Time, bobgrumman@nut-n-but.net writes: > And he isn't the poet Whitman was. > Blake was more like just about all of us in visual poetry. When did he > first get acclaimed? Fifty years after he died, an old man? Or was it > longer than that? > > --Bob G. There is a nice spread of visual poems in the November Poetry, which I guess means that v. p. is now mainstream. Sam -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081109/caacc1e9/attachment.html From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sun Nov 9 15:00:06 2008 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:32 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Walt Whitman In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <49174146.4030201@nut-n-but.net> Rsgwynn1@cs.com wrote: > In a message dated 11/9/2008 1:20:20 PM Central Standard Time, > bobgrumman@nut-n-but.net writes: >> And he isn't the poet Whitman was. >> Blake was more like just about all of us in visual poetry. When did he >> first get acclaimed? Fifty years after he died, an old man? Or was it >> longer than that? >> >> --Bob G. > > > There is a nice spread of visual poems in the November /Poetry/, which > I guess means that v. p. is now mainstream. You got it, Sam! And now we gonna 'radicate you guys! Seriously, we are further toward acceptance by a lot than we were. What remains to be seen is whether we've just been tokened into a magazine reacting to criticisms of exclusiveness or genuinely accepted. I'm safe, though--no mainstream publication is publishing mathematical poetry, as I define it (poetry that carries out mathematical operations, not just discusses math). I doubt any such publication is aware of its existence, or would think it worth investigating if told about it. It is true that a college textbook, widely used, has one of my math poems in it, but the editors mistook it for a visual poem. --Bob G. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081109/5ab30fb0/attachment.html From jforjames at aol.com Sun Nov 9 20:05:57 2008 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames@aol.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:32 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] WorldPo: Iqbal Message-ID: <8CB10E79F7809B5-C2C-B2A@FWM-M08.sysops.aol.com> http://www.tehrantimes.com/index_View.asp?code=181954 Iqbal: The Poet-Philosopher of the East Tehran Times Culture Desk TEHRAN -- Today is the birth anniversary of Muhammad Iqbal (1877-1938), the poet-philosopher who is ranked among the greatest literary and philosophical figures of the twentieth century. He belongs to the illustrious line of poet-philosophers exemplified by Rumi, Hafiz, Jami and Khayyam in the Islamic tradition, and Milton, and Goethe in the European tradition. >From all of these, however, he differs in one important respect. As a Western-educated Indian Muslim he was equally conversant with the philosophies of the East and the West. In the words of Hermann Hesse, the great German writer, he ?belongs to three domains of the spirit or intellect, the sources of his tremendous work: the worlds of India, of Islam, and of Western thought.? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081109/c57e5b06/attachment.html From blacksox at att.net Sun Nov 9 23:43:45 2008 From: blacksox at att.net (blacksox@att.net) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:32 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Whitman's awards Message-ID: <111020080443.9127.4917BC010006923F000023A722243323629B0A02D29B9B0EBF98019C050C0E040D@att.net> He never won any awards, because they did not exist yet. I heard an interesting fact once that always stuck in my mind. Whitman was the 2nd most photographed (a new science) person of the 19th century. Do you know who was the most photographed person? He was an author also... < < < < Samuel Clemens AKA Mark Twain Thanks for playing Peace Russ Golata -------------- next part -------------- Skipped content of type multipart/related From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Mon Nov 10 02:00:15 2008 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:32 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] from the Writer's Almanac Message-ID: <4b65c2d70811092300x13c06d3ek298b7a35d766fc5@mail.gmail.com> How To Be a Poet by Wendell Berry (to remind myself) Make a place to sit down. Sit down. Be quiet. You must depend upon affection, reading, knowledge, skill?more of each than you have?inspiration, work, growing older, patience, for patience joins time to eternity. Any readers who like your work, doubt their judgment. Breathe with unconditional breath the unconditioned air. Shun electric wire. Communicate slowly. Live a three-dimensioned life; stay away from screens. Stay away from anything that obscures the place it is in. There are no unsacred places; there are only sacred places and desecrated places. Accept what comes from silence. Make the best you can of it. Of the little words that come out of the silence, like prayers prayed back to the one who prays, make a poem that does not disturb the silence from which it came. "How to be a Poet" by Wendell Berry from *Given*. (c) Shoemaker Hoard, 2005. Reprinted with permission. (buy now) -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081110/0a4e13eb/attachment.html From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Mon Nov 10 06:06:21 2008 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:32 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] perspectives Message-ID: <4b65c2d70811100306q157bb188yd0461c94ba8dd48c@mail.gmail.com> Here are two examples given by the same 15 year old student: With the passing of time we get older and older. Many many years ago, humans sent only letters. I think it is better than E-mails. (I can't but chuckle, or am I maybe already exhausted after correcting this heap?) -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081110/25504530/attachment.html From Opus40-01 at opus40.org Mon Nov 10 09:38:20 2008 From: Opus40-01 at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:32 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] perspectives In-Reply-To: <4b65c2d70811100306q157bb188yd0461c94ba8dd48c@mail.gmail.com> References: <4b65c2d70811100306q157bb188yd0461c94ba8dd48c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4918475C.8010403@opus40.org> Reminds me of the great line in Alan Bennett's "The History Boys," by the one student who is not super-brilliant and really doesn't care: "History is just one fucking thing after another." Anny Ballardini wrote: > Here are two examples given by the same 15 year old student: > > With the passing of time we get older and older. > Many many years ago, humans sent only letters. I think it is better > than E-mails. > > (I can't but chuckle, or am I maybe already exhausted after correcting > this heap?) > > -- > Anny Ballardini > http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ > http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome > http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html > I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a > dancing star! > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ Don't forget to order your copy of FILM NOIR! http://stores.lulu.com/store.php?fAcctID=2712239 From jforjames at aol.com Mon Nov 10 17:12:07 2008 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames@aol.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:33 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] =?utf-8?b?QW1tb25z4oCZ4oCIcG9ldHJ5LOKAiGFydHdvcms=?= =?utf-8?b?4oCIdG8gYmXigIhvbuKAiGRpc3BsYXk=?= Message-ID: <8CB119881353E7E-1164-2467@mblk-d43.sysops.aol.com> http://www.bladenjournal.com/articles/2008/11/10/news/doc491885472d271771906940.txt Ammons??poetry,?artwork?to be?on?display?through?June Published: Monday, November 10, 2008 2:24 PM EST Rhonda Griffin, Journal Editor GREENVILLE ? The works of poet and artist A.R. ?Archie? Ammons will be on display in the Joyner Library at East Carolina University through the end of June 2009. Ammons, who won numerous prizes for his poetry throughout the years, was a native of Columbus County. His writing career began during his time of serving in the United States Navy in World War II. His first book was published in 1955. In 1964, Ammons began a career as Cornell University?s Goldwin Smith Professor of Poetry. He was inducted into the National Institute and Academy of Arts and Letters in 1990. Ammons, whose sister, Vida Cox, is a Clarkton resident, died on Feb. 25, 2001, at the age of 75. ?Ammons was, quite literally, a modern poetical phenomenon,? Franklin Crawford wrote of the late poet in a 2001 article for the Cornell Chronicle. ?His influence over American letters is immeasurably profound, and, while his style may inspire comers of every stipe, his literary accomplishments are not likely to be duplicated in our time or any other.? The exhibit includes watercolors, books, photographs, writings and newspaper clippings depicting various stages of Ammons? life and career. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081110/824ac957/attachment.html From jforjames at aol.com Mon Nov 10 17:17:39 2008 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames@aol.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:33 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Wordsalad; poets talking Message-ID: <8CB11994737BE1D-1164-24C6@mblk-d43.sysops.aol.com> http://wordsalad.wordpress.com/ Part of the Academy of American Poets? Forum 2008, a full day of panel discussions yesterday at NYU produced a series of conversations that explored the mysteries of creativity and writing from a number of angles. Some of these conversations will be soon available on the Poets.org web site. Here are a few of the bon mots I enjoyed. Ron Padgett: The best poems make me dance in my head Lyn Hejinian: The collision of natural place vs the built environment is a vast impasse, the big aporia. I feel a horrified, appalled grief about the built environment. I loathe concrete. Robert Pinsky: Contemporary poetry is informed largely by translations from non-Western sources. Susan Stewart: When we?re born, we enter the world through a door that won?t allow us to return. When we die, we leave the world through a door that won?t allow us to return. Stewart: We turn to the Light, but it blinds us, and we must turn away. Ron Padgett: Any line repeated many times is not the same thing. It goes through transformations. Louise Gl?ck: All memorable poems are difficult. But that doesn?t mean you must write a poem that is so harrowing and violently perceptive that people flee from it. Gl?ck: Every great poem teaches its readers how to read it. Carl Phillips: Poets see things clearly that other people either (a) don?t see clearly, or (b) can see, but more easily turn away from. Ellen Bryant Voight: Poetry presents difficulties of several kinds: Density, Reference, Protean form, Erasure, Derangement of senses, and Tonal complexity. Easily accessible poetry has no tonal complexity, or no tone at all. Carl Phillips: Reading a poet?s entire body of work chronologically shows a record of a mind surprising itself, and then incorporating those surprises. Gl?ck: A poem begins as an urgent, felt need to bring a perception into a form. James Longenbach: A good poem teaches the writer how to write it. Carl Phillips: A good poem teaches its readers how to read themselves as people. Ellen B Voight: The difficulty and discipline of Art gets us out of the igloo of the Self. James Longenbach: when a student complains that a poem is boring, I say, ?That?s fine. But it?s your fault.? Gerald Stern: I?m disorganized today. It?s good to be disorganized. It makes you pay attention. Frank Bidart: Poems are models of Self-making. Sharon Olds: My early work was informed by a counter-phobic boldness. Gary Snyder: Place is more important to our identity than race or gender. Place gives us our body. Place is possible on any scale. Lyn Hejinian: I look for the sublime point of encounter. When unlike things encounter each other they create an extraordinary event. Hejinian: Every idea has a terrain, and every work has a contextual landscape. Some writing is highly focused, poly-focused. It is a writing of rolling surfaces with peaks and valleys that fold into the whole. Victor H. Cruz: The Caribbean is a form of Cubism: elements of Spanish, Taino, and African, with language and accents a jagged line that runs through the painting. Hejinian: the best antidote to global capitalism is global imagination. Imagination is not administratable. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081110/d179998f/attachment.html From grahamd at ripon.edu Mon Nov 10 17:47:10 2008 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:33 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Wordsalad; poets talking In-Reply-To: <8CB11994737BE1D-1164-24C6@mblk-d43.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: On 11/10/08 4:17 PM, "jforjames@aol.com" wrote: > Gerald Stern: I?m disorganized today. It?s good to be disorganized. It makes > you pay attention. -- A rather nice bon mot, but that "today" has me stumped. I'm trying to imagine what an "organized" Gerald Stern would look like. Has he ever been organized? Would we ever want him to be? Glut The whole point was getting rid of glut for which I starved myself and lived with the heat down and only shaved oh every five days and used a blunt razor for months so that my cheek was not only red but the hair was bent not cut for which I then would be ready for the bicycle and the broken wrist, for which?oh God?I would be ready to climb the steps and fight the boxes with only nothing, a pair of shoes, and once inside to open the window and let the snow in and when the fire was over climb down the icy fire escape and drop the last twenty feet with notebooks against my chest, bruises down one side of my body, fresh blood down the other. >From Save the Last Dance by Gerald Stern. Norton, 2008. ==================================================== David Graham grahamd@ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/ Poetry Library: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ==================================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081110/7c862dd1/attachment.html From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Mon Nov 10 17:51:57 2008 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:33 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Wordsalad; poets talking In-Reply-To: References: <8CB11994737BE1D-1164-24C6@mblk-d43.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <4b65c2d70811101451n2e5a9313rb5e69c974df9c96e@mail.gmail.com> I agree: disorganized! On Mon, Nov 10, 2008 at 11:47 PM, David Graham wrote: > > > > On 11/10/08 4:17 PM, "jforjames@aol.com" wrote: > > Gerald Stern: I'm disorganized today. It's good to be disorganized. It > makes you pay attention. > > > -- > A rather nice bon mot, but that "today" has me stumped. I'm trying to > imagine what an "organized" Gerald Stern would look like. Has he ever been > organized? Would we ever want him to be? > > *Glut* > > The whole point was getting rid of glut > for which I starved myself and lived with the heat down > and only shaved oh every five days and used > a blunt razor for months so that my cheek > was not only red but the hair was bent not cut > for which I then would be ready for the bicycle > and the broken wrist, for which?oh God?I would be > ready to climb the steps and fight the boxes > with only nothing, a pair of shoes, and once > inside to open the window and let the snow in > and when the fire was over climb down the icy > fire escape and drop the last twenty > feet with notebooks against my chest, bruises > down one side of my body, fresh blood down the other. > > From* Save the Last Danc*e by Gerald Stern. Norton, 2008. > > > ==================================================== > David Graham > grahamd@ripon.edu > Home Page: > http://web.mac.com/drjazz/ > > Poetry Library: > http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html > ==================================================== > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081110/06864194/attachment.html From jforjames at aol.com Mon Nov 10 19:10:02 2008 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames@aol.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:33 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Kleinzahler on Merrill Message-ID: <8CB11A8F9E327CA-CB4-1C27@WEBMAIL-DF05.sysops.aol.com> http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/09/books/review/Kleinzahler-t.html?_r=1&ref=books&oref=slogin Changing Light ? By AUGUST KLEINZAHLER Published: November 7, 2008 The poetry of James Merrill is a good deal closer to a Haydn piano trio or Boccherini quintet than it is to Walt Whitman?s ?barbaric yawp.? Like the 18th-century Galante style in music, Merrill?s work has a high, almost lacquered finish and prizes the qualities of refinement, intricacy of design and formal containment. It is music for the court, for the knowledgeable and cultivated listener. At his best ? in a handful of poems where he?s most restrained and the emotional core of the work, however camouflaged or subdued, is most intense ? Merrill has few peers, and none among contemporary ?poets working in meter and rhyme. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081110/709cbf08/attachment.html From cervantes.james at gmail.com Mon Nov 10 19:52:24 2008 From: cervantes.james at gmail.com (James Cervantes) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:33 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Wordsalad; poets talking In-Reply-To: <8CB11994737BE1D-1164-24C6@mblk-d43.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CB11994737BE1D-1164-24C6@mblk-d43.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <648208b60811101652r7859c759nb2fd288737552b73@mail.gmail.com> Book jacket poet-speak. My vote for the worst (which would not make a book jacket, at least not for a book of poems): "I feel a horrified, appalled grief about the built environment. I loathe concrete." - Lyn Hejinian Best example of insularity: "Robert Pinsky: Contemporary poetry is informed largely by translations from non-Western sources." - Robert Pinsky My vote for flirting with possible truth: Gl?ck: "Every great poem teaches its readers how to read it." - Jim On Mon, Nov 10, 2008 at 3:17 PM, wrote: > http://wordsalad.wordpress.com/ > > Part of the Academy of American Poets' Forum 2008, a full day of panel > discussions yesterday at NYU produced a series of conversations that > explored the mysteries of creativity and writing from a number of angles. > Some of these conversations will be soon available on the Poets.orgweb site. Here are a few of the bon mots I enjoyed. > > Ron Padgett: The best poems make me dance in my head > > Lyn Hejinian: The collision of natural place vs the built environment is a > vast impasse, the big aporia. I feel a horrified, appalled grief about the > built environment. I loathe concrete. > > Robert Pinsky: Contemporary poetry is informed largely by translations from > non-Western sources. > > Susan Stewart: When we're born, we enter the world through a door that > won't allow us to return. When we die, we leave the world through a door > that won't allow us to return. > > Stewart: We turn to the Light, but it blinds us, and we must turn away. > > Ron Padgett: Any line repeated many times is not the same thing. It goes > through transformations. > > Louise Gl?ck: All memorable poems are difficult. But that doesn't mean you > must write a poem that is so harrowing and violently perceptive that people > flee from it. > > Gl?ck: Every great poem teaches its readers how to read it. > > Carl Phillips: Poets see things clearly that other people either (a) don't > see clearly, or (b) can see, but more easily turn away from. > > Ellen Bryant Voight: Poetry presents difficulties of several kinds: > Density, Reference, Protean form, Erasure, Derangement of senses, and Tonal > complexity. Easily accessible poetry has no tonal complexity, or no tone at > all. > > Carl Phillips: Reading a poet's entire body of work chronologically shows a > record of a mind surprising itself, and then incorporating those surprises. > > Gl?ck: A poem begins as an urgent, felt need to bring a perception into a > form. > > James Longenbach: A good poem teaches the writer how to write it. > > Carl Phillips: A good poem teaches its readers how to read themselves as > people. > > Ellen B Voight: The difficulty and discipline of Art gets us out of the > igloo of the Self. > > James Longenbach: when a student complains that a poem is boring, I say, > "That's fine. But it's your fault." > > Gerald Stern: I'm disorganized today. It's good to be disorganized. It > makes you pay attention. > > Frank Bidart: Poems are models of Self-making. > > Sharon Olds: My early work was informed by a counter-phobic boldness. > > Gary Snyder: Place is more important to our identity than race or gender. > Place gives us our body. Place is possible on any scale. > > Lyn Hejinian: I look for the sublime point of encounter. When unlike things > encounter each other they create an extraordinary event. > > Hejinian: Every idea has a terrain, and every work has a contextual > landscape. Some writing is highly focused, poly-focused. It is a writing of > rolling surfaces with peaks and valleys that fold into the whole. > > Victor H. Cruz: The Caribbean is a form of Cubism: elements of Spanish, > Taino, and African, with language and accents a jagged line that runs > through the painting. > > Hejinian: the best antidote to global capitalism is global imagination. > Imagination is not administratable. > > ------------------------------ > Instant access to the latest & most popular FREE games while you browse > with the Games Toolbar - Download Now! > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- "Enjoy the breadcrumb pudding at Hansel & Griddle's" - The Mesa Gourmet ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning http://www.fieralingue.it/documenti/mr_bondo.pdf http://www.poetserv.org/jvc/home/index.html http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamescervantes/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081110/1232e398/attachment.html From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Tue Nov 11 02:49:21 2008 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:33 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Kleinzahler on Merrill In-Reply-To: <8CB11A8F9E327CA-CB4-1C27@WEBMAIL-DF05.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CB11A8F9E327CA-CB4-1C27@WEBMAIL-DF05.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <4b65c2d70811102349l75a958cam7b065570be6d1c01@mail.gmail.com> What an exceptional way of introducing Merrill, no doubt Kleinzahler is a poet. He would be able to make us drink down Bob's mathematikus as refined early spring gently flowing lyricism! On Tue, Nov 11, 2008 at 1:10 AM, wrote: > > http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/09/books/review/Kleinzahler-t.html?_r=1&ref=books&oref=slogin > > Changing Light > > By AUGUST KLEINZAHLER > Published: November 7, 2008 > The poetry of James Merrill is a good deal closer to a Haydn piano trio or > Boccherini quintet than it is to Walt Whitman's "barbaric yawp." Like the > 18th-century Galante style in music, Merrill's work has a high, almost > lacquered finish and prizes the qualities of refinement, intricacy of design > and formal containment. It is music for the court, for the knowledgeable and > cultivated listener. At his best ? in a handful of poems where he's most > restrained and the emotional core of the work, however camouflaged or > subdued, is most intense ? Merrill has few peers, and none among > contemporary ?poets working in meter and rhyme. > > > ------------------------------ > Instant access to the latest & most popular FREE games while you browse > with the Games Toolbar - Download Now! > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081111/d660de18/attachment.html From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Tue Nov 11 02:56:00 2008 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:33 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Wordsalad; poets talking In-Reply-To: <648208b60811101652r7859c759nb2fd288737552b73@mail.gmail.com> References: <8CB11994737BE1D-1164-24C6@mblk-d43.sysops.aol.com> <648208b60811101652r7859c759nb2fd288737552b73@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4b65c2d70811102356t6d3586bdt8091db888f588259@mail.gmail.com> I am close to: Frank Bidart: Poems are models of Self-making. Ellen B Voight: The difficulty and discipline of Art gets us out of the igloo of the Self. Gl?ck: A poem begins as an urgent, felt need to bring a perception into a form. James Longenbach: A good poem teaches the writer how to write it. Not to mention our previous Master in Dis/organization____ ! On Tue, Nov 11, 2008 at 1:52 AM, James Cervantes wrote: > Book jacket poet-speak. My vote for the worst (which would not make a book > jacket, at least not for a book of poems): "I feel a horrified, appalled > grief about the built environment. I loathe concrete." - Lyn Hejinian > Best example of insularity: "Robert Pinsky: Contemporary poetry is informed > largely by translations from non-Western sources." - Robert Pinsky > > My vote for flirting with possible truth: Gl?ck: "Every great poem teaches > its readers how to read it." > > - Jim > > On Mon, Nov 10, 2008 at 3:17 PM, wrote: > >> http://wordsalad.wordpress.com/ >> >> Part of the Academy of American Poets' Forum 2008, a full day of panel >> discussions yesterday at NYU produced a series of conversations that >> explored the mysteries of creativity and writing from a number of angles. >> Some of these conversations will be soon available on the Poets.orgweb site. Here are a few of the bon mots I enjoyed. >> >> Ron Padgett: The best poems make me dance in my head >> >> Lyn Hejinian: The collision of natural place vs the built environment is a >> vast impasse, the big aporia. I feel a horrified, appalled grief about the >> built environment. I loathe concrete. >> >> Robert Pinsky: Contemporary poetry is informed largely by translations >> from non-Western sources. >> >> Susan Stewart: When we're born, we enter the world through a door that >> won't allow us to return. When we die, we leave the world through a door >> that won't allow us to return. >> >> Stewart: We turn to the Light, but it blinds us, and we must turn away. >> >> Ron Padgett: Any line repeated many times is not the same thing. It goes >> through transformations. >> >> Louise Gl?ck: All memorable poems are difficult. But that doesn't mean you >> must write a poem that is so harrowing and violently perceptive that people >> flee from it. >> >> Gl?ck: Every great poem teaches its readers how to read it. >> >> Carl Phillips: Poets see things clearly that other people either (a) don't >> see clearly, or (b) can see, but more easily turn away from. >> >> Ellen Bryant Voight: Poetry presents difficulties of several kinds: >> Density, Reference, Protean form, Erasure, Derangement of senses, and Tonal >> complexity. Easily accessible poetry has no tonal complexity, or no tone at >> all. >> >> Carl Phillips: Reading a poet's entire body of work chronologically shows >> a record of a mind surprising itself, and then incorporating those >> surprises. >> >> Gl?ck: A poem begins as an urgent, felt need to bring a perception into a >> form. >> >> James Longenbach: A good poem teaches the writer how to write it. >> >> Carl Phillips: A good poem teaches its readers how to read themselves as >> people. >> >> Ellen B Voight: The difficulty and discipline of Art gets us out of the >> igloo of the Self. >> >> James Longenbach: when a student complains that a poem is boring, I say, >> "That's fine. But it's your fault." >> >> Gerald Stern: I'm disorganized today. It's good to be disorganized. It >> makes you pay attention. >> >> Frank Bidart: Poems are models of Self-making. >> >> Sharon Olds: My early work was informed by a counter-phobic boldness. >> >> Gary Snyder: Place is more important to our identity than race or gender. >> Place gives us our body. Place is possible on any scale. >> >> Lyn Hejinian: I look for the sublime point of encounter. When unlike >> things encounter each other they create an extraordinary event. >> >> Hejinian: Every idea has a terrain, and every work has a contextual >> landscape. Some writing is highly focused, poly-focused. It is a writing of >> rolling surfaces with peaks and valleys that fold into the whole. >> >> Victor H. Cruz: The Caribbean is a form of Cubism: elements of Spanish, >> Taino, and African, with language and accents a jagged line that runs >> through the painting. >> >> Hejinian: the best antidote to global capitalism is global imagination. >> Imagination is not administratable. >> >> ------------------------------ >> Instant access to the latest & most popular FREE games while you browse >> with the Games Toolbar - Download Now! >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > > > -- > > "Enjoy the breadcrumb pudding at Hansel & Griddle's" - The Mesa Gourmet > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org > http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning > http://www.fieralingue.it/documenti/mr_bondo.pdf > http://www.poetserv.org/jvc/home/index.html > http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamescervantes/ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081111/051d9c0e/attachment.html From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Tue Nov 11 03:35:01 2008 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:33 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Dostoyevsky and Vonnegut Message-ID: <4b65c2d70811110035v736298c1o851c1429d9a79420@mail.gmail.com> It's the birthday of *Fyodor Dostoyevsky *, (books by this author) born in Moscow (1821). He had just graduated from engineering school when he wrote his first novel, *Poor Folk* (1846). When he finished the novel, he gave it to some friends, and they stayed up all night reading it. At 4:00 in the morning, they pounded on Dostoyevsky's door to wake him up and tell him that he'd written a masterpiece. He later said that was the happiest moment of his life. He went on to write *The Gambler* (1866), *Crime and Punishment * (1866), *The Idiot* (1868), *The Possessed* (1872), and *The Brothers Karamazov* (1880). It's the birthday of *Kurt Vonnegut Jr. *, (books by this author) born in Indianapolis, Indiana (1922). He joined the Army, and in December of 1944, he was captured by the Germans during the Battle of the Bulge. He was imprisoned in a slaughterhouse in Dresden. On the night of February 13, 1945, British and American bombers attacked Dresden, igniting a firestorm that killed almost all the city's inhabitants in two hours. Vonnegut and his fellow prisoners only survived because they slept in a meat locker three stories below the ground. In 1967, he published *Slaughterhouse-Five*(1969). Also my father was in the Battle of the Bulge. Best, Anny -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081111/9565ada7/attachment.html From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Tue Nov 11 10:28:09 2008 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:34 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Wordsalad; poets talking In-Reply-To: <4b65c2d70811102356t6d3586bdt8091db888f588259@mail.gmail.com> References: <8CB11994737BE1D-1164-24C6@mblk-d43.sysops.aol.com><648208b60811101652r7859c759nb2fd288737552b73@mail.gmail.com> <4b65c2d70811102356t6d3586bdt8091db888f588259@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4919A489.3080409@nut-n-but.net> Thanks, I believe, to some anti-allergy medication I took, I went overboard in this response: Anny Ballardini wrote: > I am close to: Interesting. I can go with just about all these thoughts--halfway. > > Frank Bidart: Poems are models of Self-making. > Poems are expansions of the Self. > Ellen B Voight: The difficulty and discipline of Art gets us out of > the igloo of the Self. > Into the SELF. > Gl?ck: A poem begins as an urgent, felt need to bring a perception > into a form Or to tinker a form into a perception. > > James Longenbach: A good poem teaches the writer how to write it. > A good poem unteaches its compose how to compose poetry. > > Not to mention our previous Master in Dis/organization____ > > ! > > > > On Tue, Nov 11, 2008 at 1:52 AM, James Cervantes > > wrote: > > Book jacket poet-speak. My vote for the worst (which would not > make a book jacket, at least not for a book of poems): "I feel a > horrified, appalled grief about the built environment. I loathe > concrete." - Lyn Hejinian > Yes. This is actually a Philistine statement. Who is to say concrete can't be art, effectively used--as it has been? But I'm half with her since she's saying (I think) that wilderness is better than development. She might have consider "asphalt" as her term for the bad, but I'm sure asphalt could be used effectively in art, though I can't think of an instance it has been. I do know some excellent poems and illumages (works of visual art in Grumguage) using cracks in asphalt. > > Best example of insularity: "Robert Pinsky: Contemporary poetry is > informed largely by translations from non-Western sources." - > Robert Pinsky. > I thought, "How dumb," when I first read this. Then I recalled that my own poetry is probably more "informed" by the haiku is than any other one thing of that type. But "largely informed?" Ridiculous. I would say all American poetry is most informed by the English language. Unless you want to say it's so uninsularly informed by too many things to untangle them. > My vote for flirting with possible truth: Gl?ck: "Every great poem > teaches its readers how to read it." > > - Jim > Haw, that would get my vote for best of the bunch, too. Odd that someone like Gl?ck, whose poems need so little to learn to read would be the one saying it. > > > On Mon, Nov 10, 2008 at 3:17 PM, > wrote: > > http://wordsalad.wordpress.com/ > > Part of the Academy of American Poets' Forum 2008, a full day > of panel discussions yesterday at NYU produced a series of > conversations that explored the mysteries of creativity and > writing from a number of angles. Some of these conversations > will be soon available on the Poets.org > web site. Here are a few of the bon > mots I enjoyed. > > Ron Padgett: The best poems make me dance in my head > Right--while your hair is standing straight up. > > Lyn Hejinian: The collision of natural place vs the built > environment is a vast impasse, the big aporia. I feel a > horrified, appalled grief about the built environment. I > loathe concrete. > > Robert Pinsky: Contemporary poetry is informed largely by > translations from non-Western sources. > > Susan Stewart: When we're born, we enter the world through a > door that won't allow us to return. When we die, we leave the > world through a door that won't allow us to return. > Yes? And what does this have to do with poetry? > > Stewart: We turn to the Light, but it blinds us, and we must > turn away. > Interesting: I've never experienced this. > > Ron Padgett: Any line repeated many times is not the same > thing. It goes through transformations. > The thing I like about these sayings is that they make me feel really smart, a megalomaniacal thing to say, but I bet I'm not alone. This one makes me feel smart because I can point out that it's a null statement. It's null because NO word means exactly the same thing when repeated. But there is a significant difference between the difference in meaning between one word and the same word repeated, and between two actually different words. On the other hand, Ron IS making a valid point: that you can, by repeating a text enough times, break a significant extra meaning out of it. I would hope any poet would already know this. > > Louise Gl?ck: All memorable poems are difficult. But that > doesn't mean you must write a poem that is so harrowing and > violently perceptive that people flee from it. > I need "difficult" defined. Just as any text repeated will change its meaning, any text reflected on sufficiently is difficult. Can anyone quote a poem that is not in any way difficult? Side-bar thought: when a poem seems difficult, is it because the poem is difficult or because what it expresses is difficult? Sometimes both, or neither, I suppose. > > Gl?ck: Every great poem teaches its readers how to read it. > > Carl Phillips: Poets see things clearly that > surely, he means, MOST > > other people either (a) don't see clearly, or (b) can see, but > more easily turn away from. > Or they seem things less clearly than others, so have to boost them with poetic devices. > > Ellen Bryant Voight: Poetry presents difficulties of several > kinds: Density, Reference, Protean form, Erasure, Derangement > of senses, and Tonal complexity. Easily accessible poetry has > no tonal complexity, or no tone at all. > I can't agree with the last statement. I don't see why an easily accessible poem could not have an easily accessible tone, even a fairly complex accessible tone. Frost's "Stopping by the Woods" has all kinds of tonal complexity, it seems to me, but is as accessible as any poem could be--however many hard-to-access meanings academics may be able to read into it. Question: if you can (reasonably) find difficult under-layers in a poem everyone likes without many of them away of those under-layers, does that prevent the poem from being "accessible?" I say no, since that's probably true of almost any poem. "Accessible" as a reference to poetry should mean "accessible enough for rich enjoyment thereof." > > > Carl Phillips: Reading a poet's entire body of work > chronologically shows a record of a mind surprising itself, > and then incorporating those surprises. > Sure, if you only count the better poets, or define "surprising" to cover a lot of things that I wouldn't consider "surprising." Unexpectedly finding just the right word to say what you want may be surprising, but trivially so compared to finding just the wrong word to say what you want that, consequently, says something large and new for you that significantly improves yours poem. > > Gl?ck: A poem begins as an urgent, felt need to bring a > perception into a form. > > James Longenbach: A good poem teaches the writer how to write it. > > Carl Phillips: A good poem teaches its readers how to read > themselves as people. > Too people-.centered a thought for me. For me, a good poem gives a person a slant on existence he didn't have before--one that increases his pleasure in existence. Which I wouldn't say except in response to Phillips because too banal. Ellen B Voight: The difficulty and discipline of Art gets us out of the igloo of the Self. > > > James Longenbach: when a student complains that a poem is > boring, I say, "That's fine. But it's your fault." > Not necessarily. But I have a word for the state of being bored by something superior to you as opposed to being bored by something inferior to you. Anybody know what it is? I can't remember it, nor where I wrote it down. I made it up long ago in reaction to pop music fans who call classical music and jazz boring. > > Gerald Stern: I'm disorganized today. It's good to be > disorganized. It makes you pay attention. > Good half-truth. But there's a sense in which effective disorganization is simply a form of higher organization--like the "disorganization" of a forest compared with the organization of a parking lot. > > Frank Bidart: Poems are models of Self-making. > > Sharon Olds: My early work was informed by a counter-phobic > boldness. > Sort of interesting. Comedy is my way of attacking what I dislike. > > Gary Snyder: Place is more important to our identity than race > or gender. Place gives us our body. Place is possible on any > scale. > No, our body gives us place, and our body is given us by our genes, which are racial and gendrical. > > Lyn Hejinian: I look for the sublime point of encounter. When > unlike things encounter each other they create an > extraordinary event. > When the RIGHT unlike things collide, yes. But a truism. > > Hejinian: Every idea has a terrain, and every work has a > contextual landscape. Some writing is highly focused, > poly-focused. It is a writing of rolling surfaces with peaks > and valleys that fold into the whole. > Some writing is that, yes. > > Victor H. Cruz: The Caribbean is a form of Cubism: elements of > Spanish, Taino, and African, with language and accents a > jagged line that runs through the painting. > One way of looking at it, I guess. > > Hejinian: the best antidote to global capitalism is global > imagination. Imagination is not administratable. > Genuine capitalism, as I understand it, is not administered; only global socialism is. --Bob G. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081111/970a52f1/attachment.html From pmetres at jcu.edu Tue Nov 11 11:54:19 2008 From: pmetres at jcu.edu (Philip Metres) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:34 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Come Together: Imagine Peace (Bottom Dog Press, 2008) Message-ID: <20081111115419.BZO04239@mirapoint.jcu.edu> Come Together: Imagine Peace (Bottom Dog Press, 2008) Poetry. Anthology. Edited by Ann Smith, Larry Smith, and Philip Metres. With an Introduction by Philip Metres. A grand collection of poetry (seventy poets both past and contemporary) written against war and for peace: poems that sustain us with their vision. http://www.amazon.com/Come-Together-Imagine-Peace-Poems/dp/1933964227 "Peace poetry is larger than a moral injunction against war; it is an articulation of the expanse, the horizon where we might come together. To adapt a line by the Sufi poet Rumi: beyond the realm of good and evil, there is a field." --from the Introduction by Philip Metres. 100 poets voice their concern and vision for peace. Poems of Witness & Elegy, Exhortation & Action, Reconciliation, Shared Humanity, Wildness & Home, Ritual & Vigil, Meditation & Prayer. Precedents: Sappho, Whitman, Dickinson, Cavafy, Millay, Patchen, Rexroth, Shapiro, Lowell, Creeley, Rukeyser, Ginsberg, Levertov, Lorde, Stafford, Jordan, Amichai, Darwish Contemporaries: Abinader, Ali, Bass, Berry, Bauer, Berrigan, Bly, Bodhr?n, Bradley, Brazaitis, Bright, Bryner, Budbill, Cervine, Charara, Cording, Cone, Crooker, Daniels, di Prima, Davis, Dougherty, Ellis, Espada, Estes, Ferlinghetti, Forch?, Frost, Gibson, Gundy, Gilberg, Habra, Hague, Hamill, Harter, Hassler, Haven, Heyen, Hirshfield, Hughes, Joudah, Jensen, Karmin, Kendig, Komunyakaa, Kovacik, Kryss, Krysl, LaFemina, Landis, Leslie, Lifshin, Loden, Lovin, Lucas, McCallum, McGuane, Machan, McQuaid, Meek, Metres, Miltner, Montgomery, Norman, Nye, Pankey, Pendarvis, Pinsky, Porterfield, Prevost, Ragain, Rashid, Rich, Roffman, Rosen, Ross, Rusk, Salinger, Sanders, Seltzer, Schneider, Shabtai, Shannon, Sheffield, Shipley, Shomer, Silano, Sklar, Smith, Snyder, Spahr, Sydlik, Szymborska, Trommer, Twichell, Volkmer, Waters, Weems, Wilson, Zale http://www.amazon.com/Come-Together-Imagine-Peace-Poems/dp/1933964227 Philip Metres Associate Professor Department of English John Carroll University 20700 N. Park Blvd University Heights, OH 44118 phone: (216) 397-4528 (work) fax: (216) 397-1723 http://www.philipmetres.com http://www.behindthelinespoetry.blogspot.com From amyhappens at yahoo.com Tue Nov 11 12:11:30 2008 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:34 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Wordsalad; poets talking In-Reply-To: <648208b60811101652r7859c759nb2fd288737552b73@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <270179.25254.qm@web83308.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Thanks for this, James.? Gonna post it to my blog! Be well, Amy _______ Recent work http://www.writing.upenn.edu/pennsound/x/King.html Amy's Alias http://amyking.org/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081111/49d2f775/attachment.html From Opus40-01 at opus40.org Tue Nov 11 22:08:01 2008 From: Opus40-01 at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:34 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Camlle Paglia explains how she saved poetry Message-ID: <491A4891.7070206@opus40.org> http://www.bu.edu/arion/Paglia16-2.html I was shocked and disappointed by what I found. Poem after poem, when approached from the perspective of the general audience rather than that of academic criticism, shrank into inconsequence or pretension. Or poets whom I fondly remembered from my college and graduate school studies turned out to have produced impressive bodies of serious work but no single poem that could stand up as an artifact to the classic poems elsewhere in the book. The ultimate standard that I applied in my selection process was based on William Butler Yeats? ?The Second Coming,? a masterpiece of sinewy modern English. Ezra Pound, because of his generous mentoring of and vast influence on other poets (such as T. S. Eliot and William Carlos Williams), should have been automatically included in /Break, Blow, Burn/. But to my dismay, I could not find a single usable Pound poem?just a monotonous series of showy, pointless, arcane allusions to prior literature. The equally influential W. H. Auden was high on my original list. But after reviewing Auden?s collected poetry, I was stunned to discover how few of his poems can stand on their own in today?s media-saturated cultural climate. -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ Don't forget to order your copy of FILM NOIR! http://stores.lulu.com/store.php?fAcctID=2712239 From Opus40-01 at opus40.org Tue Nov 11 12:16:55 2008 From: Opus40-01 at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:34 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Wordsalad; poets talking In-Reply-To: <270179.25254.qm@web83308.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: <270179.25254.qm@web83308.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4919BE07.5020105@opus40.org> Ron Padgett's is borrowed from the title of a wonderful Ornette Coleman album, "Dancing in Your Head." amy king wrote: > Thanks for this, James. Gonna post it to my blog! > > Be well, > Amy > > > _______ > > > Recent work > http://www.writing.upenn.edu/pennsound/x/King.html > > Amy's Alias > http://amyking.org/ > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ Don't forget to order your copy of FILM NOIR! http://stores.lulu.com/store.php?fAcctID=2712239 From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Wed Nov 12 06:32:49 2008 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:34 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Camlle Paglia explains how she saved poetry In-Reply-To: <491A4891.7070206@opus40.org> References: <491A4891.7070206@opus40.org> Message-ID: <491ABEE1.9030002@nut-n-but.net> TheOldMole wrote: > http://www.bu.edu/arion/Paglia16-2.html > > > I was shocked and disappointed by what I found. Poem after poem, when > approached from the perspective of the general audience rather than > that of academic criticism, Uh, Camille, some of us are in neither group. --Bob G. From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Wed Nov 12 07:02:37 2008 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:34 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Camlle Paglia explains how she saved poetry In-Reply-To: <491A4891.7070206@opus40.org> References: <491A4891.7070206@opus40.org> Message-ID: <491AC5DC.9090604@nut-n-but.net> In case anyone cares, I am far more against Paglia's Wilshburian view than I am against the view of the Wilshburians who praise the poets she pans. --Bob G. From Opus40-01 at opus40.org Wed Nov 12 09:22:46 2008 From: Opus40-01 at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:34 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Camlle Paglia explains how she saved poetry In-Reply-To: <491AC5DC.9090604@nut-n-but.net> References: <491A4891.7070206@opus40.org> <491AC5DC.9090604@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <491AE6B6.1040304@opus40.org> I've lost track. Is Wilshburian like Iowa Plaintext, or is it more like Bunburying? Bob Grumman wrote: > In case anyone cares, I am far more against Paglia's Wilshburian view > than I am against the view of the Wilshburians who praise the poets > she pans. > > --Bob G. > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ Don't forget to order your copy of FILM NOIR! http://stores.lulu.com/store.php?fAcctID=2712239 From jbalizsprince at googlemail.com Wed Nov 12 11:06:44 2008 From: jbalizsprince at googlemail.com (Judy Prince) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:34 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Camlle Paglia explains how she saved poetry In-Reply-To: <491A4891.7070206@opus40.org> References: <491A4891.7070206@opus40.org> Message-ID: <7db1d01b0811120806y1c738490ud130f482ab35f6a4@mail.gmail.com> Thanks, Tad, for this. I've decided to invest a few pennies on seeing what in fact La Paglia decides to include, rather than nearly-include, as she indicates in the article you cited. So, for under ten dollars including postage, amazon.com'll send me a used copy of her book. Riffing off politics and my former take on the Democratic Party, I wonder, as well, at our odd stodge place for poets: We loathe and elevate academic writers.....and most of us on this list, I'll wager, are academic poets. That is, most of us studied poetry heavily at university and somehow ended up writing it, some of us lucky enough to teach it. And most, as with the former [before Obama] Democratic Party, of us poet-academics are word- and assertion- wimps. I used to say that because Senate Democrats operate politically like college professors, heaven help us if they win a majority in Congress as well as the Presidency! Kind of like a political movement of self-loathing but slightly corrupt Quakers [no, I'm NOT insulting the Society of Friends!] who determine their actions through consensus. It'd take a couple years to get that toilet fixed at the Meetinghouse. Just give us regular folks, regular folk poets. Does that mean not-intellectual poets? Indeed, no, it does not mean that. Back to the analogy: Most of us voted for Obama primarily because he is a breathtaking blend of intellectual, loving, and pragmatic political being. We who read and practice poetry like that kind of Regular Person, want that kind of poetry. And this means.....for poetry.... what? It means that Camille Paglia has probably justifiedly decided that poetry for 'the public' is a dead duck, has been since academic poets have had the , albeit limited, power and authority to arbit Proper Poetry for the world, whether the world approves it or not. Has the same thing happened in the other arts? Of course. It would seem to be the case in 2nd and 3rd dimension fine art, with a few comparable blips in the world of music, and dance, and, sadly, with very little at all to admire in theatre. Academics writing for academics. The rise and uncreativity of _us_, the middle class. Hmmm...... Yes, of course, I've thrown most of us, myself, included, under the bus. But we deserve it, if only for this one lonely solitary post's moment. Thanks for the chance to ramble it out. Best, Judy 2008/11/11 TheOldMole > http://www.bu.edu/arion/Paglia16-2.html > > > I was shocked and disappointed by what I found. Poem after poem, when > approached from the perspective of the general audience rather than that of > academic criticism, shrank into inconsequence or pretension. Or poets whom I > fondly remembered from my college and graduate school studies turned out to > have produced impressive bodies of serious work but no single poem that > could stand up as an artifact to the classic poems elsewhere in the book. > The ultimate standard that I applied in my selection process was based on > William Butler Yeats' "The Second Coming," a masterpiece of sinewy modern > English. > > Ezra Pound, because of his generous mentoring of and vast influence on > other poets (such as T. S. Eliot and William Carlos Williams), should have > been automatically included in /Break, Blow, Burn/. But to my dismay, I > could not find a single usable Pound poem?just a monotonous series of showy, > pointless, arcane allusions to prior literature. The equally influential W. > H. Auden was high on my original list. But after reviewing Auden's collected > poetry, I was stunned to discover how few of his poems can stand on their > own in today's media-saturated cultural climate. > > > -- > Tad Richards > http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ > http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ > > Don't forget to order your copy of FILM NOIR! > http://stores.lulu.com/store.php?fAcctID=2712239 > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081112/fa825ec2/attachment.html From amyhappens at yahoo.com Wed Nov 12 11:15:58 2008 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:34 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Um, War Ends? Message-ID: <585138.32647.qm@web83304.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Check out the New York Times today!? http://www.nytimes-se.com/ http://www.nytimes-se.com/ Enjoy, Amy _______ Recent work http://www.writing.upenn.edu/pennsound/x/King.html Amy's Alias http://amyking.org/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081112/195059b5/attachment.html From AlMaginnes at aol.com Wed Nov 12 12:21:19 2008 From: AlMaginnes at aol.com (AlMaginnes@aol.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:34 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Camlle Paglia explains how she saved poetry Message-ID: As Gloria Steinem once said, "Who gives a %!#*@ what Camille Paglia thinks?" **************Get the Moviefone Toolbar. Showtimes, theaters, movie news & more!(http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1212774565x1200812037/aol?redir=htt p://toolbar.aol.com/moviefone/download.html?ncid=emlcntusdown00000001) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081112/ccc116f4/attachment.html From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Wed Nov 12 12:29:37 2008 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:34 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Um, War Ends? In-Reply-To: <585138.32647.qm@web83304.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: <585138.32647.qm@web83304.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4b65c2d70811120929g459ca964oa19246ae16435013@mail.gmail.com> Ah Amy terrible, it took forever to download the page to the point that when I finally saw it, I thought it was today's the New York Times - also because The New York Times _is_ my homepage, and for a moment I believed it was true, then I finally saw the date, finally noticed that I could not open the article on Bush indicted on High Treason... and finally... On Wed, Nov 12, 2008 at 5:15 PM, amy king wrote: > Check out the New York Times today! > > http://www.nytimes-se.com/ > http://www.nytimes-se.com/ > > Enjoy, > > Amy > > > _______ > > > Recent work > http://www.writing.upenn.edu/pennsound/x/King.html > > Amy's Alias > http://amyking.org/ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081112/2e82b7ab/attachment.html From amyhappens at yahoo.com Wed Nov 12 16:46:46 2008 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:34 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Um, War Ends? In-Reply-To: <4b65c2d70811120929g459ca964oa19246ae16435013@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <817684.19174.qm@web83301.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Wouldn't that have made your day!? And mine, and so on... It's fun to think about the possibilities though, no? xo, amy --- On Wed, 11/12/08, Anny Ballardini wrote: From: Anny Ballardini Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Um, War Ends? To: amyhappens@yahoo.com, "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &, Views" Date: Wednesday, November 12, 2008, 12:29 PM Ah Amy terrible, it took forever to download the page to the point that when I finally saw it, I thought it was today's the New York Times - also because The New York Times _is_ my homepage, and for a moment I believed it was true, then I finally saw the date, finally noticed that I could not open the article on Bush indicted on High Treason... and finally... On Wed, Nov 12, 2008 at 5:15 PM, amy king wrote: Check out the New York Times today!? http://www.nytimes-se.com/ http://www.nytimes-se.com/ Enjoy, Amy _______ Recent work http://www.writing.upenn.edu/pennsound/x/King.html Amy's Alias http://amyking.org/ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081112/5416f7e1/attachment.html From amyhappens at yahoo.com Wed Nov 12 16:49:07 2008 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:34 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Camlle Paglia explains how she saved poetry In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <758130.24751.qm@web83304.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Unfortunately, too many.? Who are they, though???? I have yet to meet a Paglia fan.? But someone's buying her books, giving her applause, publishing her articles on books she writes ... bah. Be well, Amy _______ Recent work http://www.writing.upenn.edu/pennsound/x/King.html Amy's Alias http://amyking.org/ --- On Wed, 11/12/08, AlMaginnes@aol.com wrote: From: AlMaginnes@aol.com Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Camlle Paglia explains how she saved poetry To: new-poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu Date: Wednesday, November 12, 2008, 12:21 PM As Gloria Steinem once said, "Who gives a %!#*@ what Camille Paglia thinks?" Get the Moviefone Toolbar. Showtimes, theaters, movie news & more!_______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081112/73b16797/attachment.html From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Wed Nov 12 17:11:30 2008 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:34 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Um, War Ends? In-Reply-To: <4b65c2d70811120929g459ca964oa19246ae16435013@mail.gmail.com> References: <585138.32647.qm@web83304.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <4b65c2d70811120929g459ca964oa19246ae16435013@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <491B5492.9090909@nut-n-but.net> I liked the article about Osama Bin Laden's being made secretary of health, education and welfare quite a lot, too. --Bob G. From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Wed Nov 12 17:33:36 2008 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:34 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Camlle Paglia explains how she saved poetry In-Reply-To: <491AE6B6.1040304@opus40.org> References: <491A4891.7070206@opus40.org> <491AC5DC.9090604@nut-n-but.net> <491AE6B6.1040304@opus40.org> Message-ID: <491B59C0.1040406@nut-n-but.net> TheOldMole wrote: > I've lost track. Is Wilshburian like Iowa Plaintext, or is it more > like Bunburying? > How annoying that no one has yet defined the word for you, Mole. Wilshburia is a narrow portion of the contemporary American poetry continuum near its right end. It begins, to the right, with the poetry of Wilbur and the new formalists and ends on the left with the poetry of Ashbury and Ashbury clones. The poetry of the Iowa Plaintext Lyricists is somewhere in between. The name is an amalgamation of "Wilbur" and "Ashbury." I coined after reading some academic who'd edited a collection of "best" American poetry, and said he was open to all poetry, for--yow--he admired the poetry of both Wilbur and Ashbury. This may have been as long as fifteen years ago, but I've seen similar boasts of broadness several times since. Not to mention my arguments with people claiming the Wilshburian John Logan is widely read in poetry. --Bob G. From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Wed Nov 12 18:07:34 2008 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:34 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Camlle Paglia explains how she saved poetry In-Reply-To: <491AE6B6.1040304@opus40.org> References: <491A4891.7070206@opus40.org> <491AC5DC.9090604@nut-n-but.net> <491AE6B6.1040304@opus40.org> Message-ID: <491B61B6.7080609@nut-n-but.net> TheOldMole wrote: > I've lost track. Is Wilshburian like Iowa Plaintext, or is it more > like Bunburying? > How annoying that no one has yet defined the word for you, Mole. Wilshburia is a narrow portion of the contemporary American poetry continuum near its right end. It begins, to the right, with the poetry of Wilbur and the new formalists and ends on the left with the poetry of Ashbury and Ashbury clones. The poetry of the Iowa Plaintext Lyricists is somewhere in between. The name is an amalgamation of "Wilbur" and "Ashbury." I coined after reading some academic who'd edited a collection of "best" American poetry, and said he was open to all poetry, for--yow--he admired the poetry of both Wilbur and Ashbury. This may have been as long as fifteen years ago, but I've seen similar boasts of broadness several times since. Not to mention my arguments with people claiming the Wilshburian John Logan is widely read in poetry. --Bob G. From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Wed Nov 12 18:47:52 2008 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:35 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Two Visual Poems of Mine In-Reply-To: <491B61B6.7080609@nut-n-but.net> References: <491A4891.7070206@opus40.org> <491AC5DC.9090604@nut-n-but.net><491AE6B6.1040304@opus40.org> <491B61B6.7080609@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <491B6B28.3040700@nut-n-but.net> I'm pretty sure I or someone else announced the visual poetry gallery C. Mehrl Bennett curated for Mad Hatter Review, but I want to re-publicize my own two contributions at http://www.madhattersreview.com/issue10/vispo_grumman.shtml because I think they represent me at my best (and I thought that before Poetry magazine rejected them)--and most accessible. The one for William Blake should be especially accessible for a visual mathematical poem, at least for anyone familiar with what he said about a grain of sand. The other is interesting for me because when I saw it today, I suddenly liked it much more than I did when I made it--to speak to a thread a while back about how well poets judge their own work. To refer back to another thread of ours, I want to point out the influence in the Blake poem to Pollock. I consider the graphic in it much more "refined" and unsplashy than his best stuff, but I made it with a sort of dance of my mouse in an abstract-expressionist way. I'd love to do less refined nonrepresentational graphics but can't afford the kind of computer I'd need to do it--or the studio I'd need to do it the old-fashioned way. --Bob G. From jbalizsprince at googlemail.com Wed Nov 12 19:16:38 2008 From: jbalizsprince at googlemail.com (Judy Prince) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:35 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Two Visual Poems of Mine In-Reply-To: <491B6B28.3040700@nut-n-but.net> References: <491A4891.7070206@opus40.org> <491AC5DC.9090604@nut-n-but.net> <491AE6B6.1040304@opus40.org> <491B61B6.7080609@nut-n-but.net> <491B6B28.3040700@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <7db1d01b0811121616k75cb7254ve36b91a43ab63c36@mail.gmail.com> These are beautiful, Bob. Each gives the feel of continuous wave-movings, of perfect unity of visual elements, and of depth and grace. You will be surprised, perhaps, that each conveys, to me, a calm spirituality. The second one blows my mind with its harmonic explosion of colours. Both are elegant art forms. If I were a rich woman, I would ask to use these as covers for my upcoming Frisky Moll Press poetry pamphlets. Thanks for the joy of these! Judy 2008/11/12 Bob Grumman > I'm pretty sure I or someone else announced the visual poetry gallery C. > Mehrl Bennett curated for Mad Hatter Review, but I want to re-publicize my > own two contributions at > > http://www.madhattersreview.com/issue10/vispo_grumman.shtml > > because I think they represent me at my best (and I thought that before > Poetry magazine rejected them)--and most accessible. The one for William > Blake should be especially accessible for a visual mathematical poem, at > least for anyone familiar with what he said about a grain of sand. The > other is interesting for me because when I saw it today, I suddenly liked it > much more than I did when I made it--to speak to a thread a while back about > how well poets judge their own work. > To refer back to another thread of ours, I want to point out the influence > in the Blake poem to Pollock. I consider the graphic in it much more > "refined" and unsplashy than his best stuff, but I made it with a sort of > dance of my mouse in an abstract-expressionist way. I'd love to do less > refined nonrepresentational graphics but can't afford the kind of computer > I'd need to do it--or the studio I'd need to do it the old-fashioned way. > > --Bob G. > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081112/9224286c/attachment.html From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Wed Nov 12 19:33:47 2008 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:35 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Two Visual Poems of Mine In-Reply-To: <7db1d01b0811121616k75cb7254ve36b91a43ab63c36@mail.gmail.com> References: <491A4891.7070206@opus40.org> <491AC5DC.9090604@nut-n-but.net><491AE6B6.1040304@opus40.org> <491B61B6.7080609@nut-n-but.net><491B6B28.3040700@nut-n-but.net> <7db1d01b0811121616k75cb7254ve36b91a43ab63c36@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <491B75EB.30505@nut-n-but.net> Judy Prince wrote: > These are beautiful, Bob. > > Each gives the feel of continuous wave-movings, of perfect unity of > visual elements, and of depth and grace. You will be surprised, > perhaps, that each conveys, to me, a calm spirituality. The second > one blows my mind with its harmonic explosion of colours. Both are > elegant art forms. > > If I were a rich woman, I would ask to use these as covers for my > upcoming Frisky Moll Press poetry pamphlets. > > Thanks for the joy of these! > > Judy Chee, for whatever it was Roger called you, you aren't such a bad lady, after all, Judy! Thanks for liking them. Oh, and feel free to quote them on your covers for nothing. I just want $100 for each if your pamphlets make a profit of over ten thousand . Or do you mean you wouldn't be able to afford color? Which makes me realize I've never looked at them in black and white. --Bob From jbalizsprince at googlemail.com Wed Nov 12 19:50:55 2008 From: jbalizsprince at googlemail.com (Judy Prince) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:35 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Two Visual Poems of Mine In-Reply-To: <491B75EB.30505@nut-n-but.net> References: <491A4891.7070206@opus40.org> <491AC5DC.9090604@nut-n-but.net> <491AE6B6.1040304@opus40.org> <491B61B6.7080609@nut-n-but.net> <491B6B28.3040700@nut-n-but.net> <7db1d01b0811121616k75cb7254ve36b91a43ab63c36@mail.gmail.com> <491B75EB.30505@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <7db1d01b0811121650l5528e8dfo1c467d504867af2c@mail.gmail.com> I had meant both the purchase cost as well as the cost of colour printing, Bob. Since I don't even have a goal of making such a profit as you mention, there's that taken care of. And if I do happen to make that profit, well, $100 would be too little to pay you, wouldn't it? Main thing, as you've guessed, is that I'll be printing in black and white only----the only colour will be the cover stock itself, if that appeals to the poets and to me, which it usually does. Black/white only is a challenge, but I'm discovering far more possibilities than I'd ever have imagined. Frisky Moll Press should be up and running with the first pamphlet ready to purchase online in February 2009. Keep me posted on your developments and thoughts! Judy 2008/11/12 Bob Grumman > Judy Prince wrote: > >> These are beautiful, Bob. >> Each gives the feel of continuous wave-movings, of perfect unity of visual >> elements, and of depth and grace. You will be surprised, perhaps, that each >> conveys, to me, a calm spirituality. The second one blows my mind with its >> harmonic explosion of colours. Both are elegant art forms. >> >> If I were a rich woman, I would ask to use these as covers for my upcoming >> Frisky Moll Press poetry pamphlets. >> Thanks for the joy of these! >> >> Judy >> > Chee, for whatever it was Roger called you, you aren't such a bad lady, > after all, Judy! Thanks for liking them. > > Oh, and feel free to quote them on your covers for nothing. I just want > $100 for each if your pamphlets make a profit of over ten thousand . Or do > you mean you wouldn't be able to afford color? Which makes me realize I've > never looked at them in black and white. > > --Bob > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081112/8a360ca6/attachment.html From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Wed Nov 12 19:59:16 2008 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:35 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Two Visual Poems of Mine In-Reply-To: <7db1d01b0811121650l5528e8dfo1c467d504867af2c@mail.gmail.com> References: <491A4891.7070206@opus40.org> <491AC5DC.9090604@nut-n-but.net><491AE6B6.1040304@opus40.org> <491B61B6.7080609@nut-n-but.net><491B6B28.3040700@nut-n-but.net><7db1d01b0811121616k75cb7254ve36b91a43ab63c36@mail.gmail.com>< 491B75EB.30505@nut-n-but.net> <7db1d01b0811121650l5528e8dfo1c467d504867af2c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <491B7BE4.7020304@nut-n-but.net> Judy Prince wrote: > I had meant both the purchase cost as well as the cost of colour > printing, Bob. Since I don't even have a goal of making such a profit > as you mention, there's that taken care of. And if I do happen to > make that profit, well, $100 would be too little to pay you, wouldn't > it? > > Main thing, as you've guessed, is that I'll be printing in black and > white only----the only colour will be the cover stock itself, if that > appeals to the poets and to me, which it usually does. Black/white > only is a challenge, but I'm discovering far more possibilities than > I'd ever have imagined. Frisky Moll Press should be up and running > with the first pamphlet ready to purchase online in February 2009. > Keep me posted on your developments and thoughts! > > Judy Will do, Judy. Good luck with FMP. --Bob From Opus40-01 at opus40.org Wed Nov 12 20:23:08 2008 From: Opus40-01 at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:35 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Two Visual Poems of Mine In-Reply-To: <491B75EB.30505@nut-n-but.net> References: <491A4891.7070206@opus40.org> <491AC5DC.9090604@nut-n-but.net><491AE6B6.1040304@opus40.org> <491B61B6.7080609@nut-n-but.net><491B6B28.3040700@nut-n-but.net> <7db1d01b0811121616k75cb7254ve36b91a43ab63c36@mail.gmail.com> <491B75EB.30505@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <491B817C.2030707@opus40.org> I love Bob's rebuses. They don't really speak to me as poems, but they really speak to me. They're beautiful. Bob Grumman wrote: > Judy Prince wrote: >> These are beautiful, Bob. >> Each gives the feel of continuous wave-movings, of perfect unity of >> visual elements, and of depth and grace. You will be surprised, >> perhaps, that each conveys, to me, a calm spirituality. The second >> one blows my mind with its harmonic explosion of colours. Both are >> elegant art forms. >> >> If I were a rich woman, I would ask to use these as covers for my >> upcoming Frisky Moll Press poetry pamphlets. >> Thanks for the joy of these! >> >> Judy > Chee, for whatever it was Roger called you, you aren't such a bad > lady, after all, Judy! Thanks for liking them. > > Oh, and feel free to quote them on your covers for nothing. I just > want $100 for each if your pamphlets make a profit of over ten > thousand . Or do you mean you wouldn't be able to afford color? Which > makes me realize I've never looked at them in black and white. > > --Bob > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ Don't forget to order your copy of FILM NOIR! http://stores.lulu.com/store.php?fAcctID=2712239 From Rsgwynn1 at cs.com Wed Nov 12 21:55:56 2008 From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com (Rsgwynn1@cs.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:35 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Two Visual Poems of Mine Message-ID: These are lovely. Thanks for the link, Bob. Sam -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081112/a8ddff39/attachment.html From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Wed Nov 12 21:54:23 2008 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:35 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Two Visual Poems of Mine In-Reply-To: <491B817C.2030707@opus40.org> References: <491A4891.7070206@opus40.org> <491AC5DC.9090604@nut-n-but.net><491AE6B6.1040304@opus40.org> <491B61B6.7080609@nut-n-but.net><491B6B28.3040700@nut-n-but.net> <7db1d01b0811121616k75cb7254ve36b91a43ab63c36@mail.gmail.com><491B75EB.30505@nut-n-but.net> <491B817C.2030707@opus40.org> Message-ID: <491B96DE.1090709@nut-n-but.net> TheOldMole wrote: > I love Bob's rebuses. They don't really speak to me as poems, but they > really speak to me. They're beautiful. Thanks, Mole. But how about the (more or less conventional) texts taken separately? Don't they work as poetry fragments for you? PS, as long as you like the things, I don't care what you call them, but you really ought to look up "rebus" in your dictionary. None of my poems is a rebus. M T would be a rebus for "empty." --Bob G. From Opus40-01 at opus40.org Wed Nov 12 22:17:20 2008 From: Opus40-01 at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:35 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Two Visual Poems of Mine In-Reply-To: <491B96DE.1090709@nut-n-but.net> References: <491A4891.7070206@opus40.org> <491AC5DC.9090604@nut-n-but.net><491AE6B6.1040304@opus40.org> <491B61B6.7080609@nut-n-but.net><491B6B28.3040700@nut-n-but.net> <7db1d01b0811121616k75cb7254ve36b91a43ab63c36@mail.gmail.com><491B75EB.30505@nut-n-but.net> <491B817C.2030707@opus40.org> <491B96DE.1090709@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <491B9C40.1070409@opus40.org> It really doesn't much matter what you call it. It's wonderful work. Bob Grumman wrote: > TheOldMole wrote: >> I love Bob's rebuses. They don't really speak to me as poems, but >> they really speak to me. They're beautiful. > > Thanks, Mole. But how about the (more or less conventional) texts > taken separately? Don't they work as poetry fragments for you? > > PS, as long as you like the things, I don't care what you call them, > but you really ought to look up "rebus" in your dictionary. None of > my poems is a rebus. M T would be a rebus for "empty." > > --Bob G. > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ Don't forget to order your copy of FILM NOIR! http://stores.lulu.com/store.php?fAcctID=2712239 From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Wed Nov 12 22:51:46 2008 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:35 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Two Visual Poems of Mine In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <491BA452.2010306@nut-n-but.net> Rsgwynn1@cs.com wrote: > These are lovely. Thanks for the link, Bob. > > Sam Yikes, 3 compliments already. I'd better get the things unposted before I get another and become Really Conceited! But thanks, Sam. Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081112/008e1ec8/attachment.html From alexdickow9 at yahoo.com Thu Nov 13 01:26:04 2008 From: alexdickow9 at yahoo.com (Alexander Dickow) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:35 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Camlle Paglia explains how she saved poetry In-Reply-To: <200811121700.mACH04nK020526@wiz.cath.vt.edu> Message-ID: <829744.32015.qm@web35507.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Tad, This is an exceptionally irritating article. Please don't inflict this person on us again, if you don't mind - no hard feelings, but my nerves really can't take this sort of invasion. What's a Wilshburian? Amicalement, Alex From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Thu Nov 13 02:16:11 2008 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:35 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Two Visual Poems of Mine In-Reply-To: <491BA452.2010306@nut-n-but.net> References: <491BA452.2010306@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <4b65c2d70811122316qdff5fc3g52d846747e13c3f1@mail.gmail.com> Four! On Thu, Nov 13, 2008 at 4:51 AM, Bob Grumman wrote: > Rsgwynn1@cs.com wrote: > > These are lovely. Thanks for the link, Bob. > > Sam > > Yikes, 3 compliments already. I'd better get the things unposted before I > get another and become Really Conceited! But thanks, Sam. > > Bob > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081113/3d7f4cff/attachment.html From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Thu Nov 13 06:41:11 2008 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:35 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Camlle Paglia explains how she saved poetry In-Reply-To: <829744.32015.qm@web35507.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <829744.32015.qm@web35507.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <491C1257.9000006@nut-n-but.net> Alexander Dickow wrote: > Tad, > This is an exceptionally irritating article. Please don't inflict this person on us again, if you don't mind - no hard feelings, but my nerves really can't take this sort of invasion. > What's a Wilshburian? > Amicalement, > Alex > As I explain in a post to the Mole yesterday, a Wilshburian is a poet or reader of poetry confined to the Wilbur-to-Ashbery segment of the contemporary American poetry continuum. Generally, the Wilshburian mistakes this segment for the whole of the scene, and is proud of his broadness of taste. --Bob G. From jforjames at aol.com Thu Nov 13 13:00:51 2008 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames@aol.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:35 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] report of Roethke award ceremony at Saginaw Valley State U. Message-ID: <8CB13D0E6304DF2-1618-EC1@webmail-db11.sysops.aol.com> http://www.mlive.com/saginawnews/entertainment/index.ssf/2008/11/a_zombie_actor_pulitzerwinning.html Pinsky then, in a soft-spoken and melodic voice, dissected the line "I learn by going where I have to go" from Roethke's "The Waking" poem, which was the name also of his 1953 Pulitzer winning book. In his younger years, Pinsky said, he thought it meant to live a life dedicated to learning by experience and to ignoring meddlers in that life. "Later in life I had a different response to that line," Pinsky said. "It is about coming to terms with the fact everyone dies, even a beautiful poet, and the chance that with that (death) you become forgotten. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081113/ff7a16f3/attachment.html From jforjames at aol.com Thu Nov 13 13:42:03 2008 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames@aol.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:35 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Reading Report: Charles Wright Message-ID: <8CB13D6A80669C2-1618-11C8@webmail-db11.sysops.aol.com> On Tuesday night I drove down to Yale to hear Charles Wright read. I've followed his work over the years and this was first opportunity I've had to hear him read. So I was looking forward to the evening. The room was one of those oaken appointed, Gothic windowed, large?stone?fireplaced old college halls. (You get smarter just sitting inside a room like that.)?Behind and above the lectern was a huge mounted elk's head and rack. (I noticed its attention never flagged during the reading.) The reading was well attended, Maybe as many as 150 in the house. Not a?single poetry book for sale in the back of the room or near the entryway. (Probably the best place to sell poetry?books is at a reading and so many times I find this to be the case.) Wright read in an easy and casual manner, with a?nice Tenn/Carolina/Virginia accent. Maybe I wasn't in the right mode (no pun intended) but I was a little disappointed by the reading. I expected lanscape-based and memory-driven meditations, but somehow I thought the language would have a bit more verve to it. I?don't have the recent book Scar Tissue, which he read quite a few poems from, so I don't know those poems at all. Many of the poems he said had been written in Montana near the Canadian border. The last group of poems he read were all six-line poems he called Sestets. Those really seemed light-weight ?to me and not kind of work one should end?a reading on. But like I said, I may just have been in wrong frame of mind to hear the work that night. One of Wright's asides (in paraphrase: [Reads title of poem, pauses] "I'm really attracted to that title. When you're get that way about titles,?you know you're done for." JD "Sandy" McClatchy gave one of those glowing, over-praising?intros that no poet could live up to. Finnegan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081113/d98512d4/attachment.html From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Thu Nov 13 14:05:18 2008 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:35 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Reading Report: Charles Wright In-Reply-To: <8CB13D6A80669C2-1618-11C8@webmail-db11.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CB13D6A80669C2-1618-11C8@webmail-db11.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <4b65c2d70811131105t81c5c41xec636c4e7a2c12a3@mail.gmail.com> Thanks for sharing. Wonderful the oaken windowed fireplaced room, as you said, one does feel more intelligent just by being there. On Thu, Nov 13, 2008 at 7:42 PM, wrote: > On Tuesday night I drove down to Yale to hear Charles > Wright read. I've followed his work over the years and this > was first opportunity I've had to hear him read. So I was > looking forward to the evening. > > The room was one of those oaken appointed, Gothic windowed, > large stone fireplaced old college halls. (You get smarter just sitting > inside a room like that.) Behind and above the lectern > was a huge mounted elk's head and rack. (I noticed its attention > never flagged during the reading.) The reading was well attended, > Maybe as many as 150 in the house. Not a single poetry book > for sale in the back of the room or near the entryway. (Probably > the best place to sell poetry books is at a reading and so many times > I find this to be the case.) Wright read in an easy and casual manner, > with a nice Tenn/Carolina/Virginia accent. > > Maybe I wasn't in the right mode (no pun intended) but I > was a little disappointed by the reading. I expected lanscape-based > and memory-driven meditations, but somehow > I thought the language would have a bit more verve to it. > I don't have the recent book Scar Tissue, which he > read quite a few poems from, so I don't know those poems > at all. Many of the poems he said had been > written in Montana near the Canadian border. > The last group of poems he read were all six-line poems > he called Sestets. Those really seemed light-weight > to me and not kind of work one should end a reading on. > But like I said, I may just have been in wrong frame > of mind to hear the work that night. > > One of Wright's asides (in paraphrase: [Reads title of > poem, pauses] "I'm really attracted to that title. When > you're get that way about titles, you know you're done for." > > JD "Sandy" McClatchy gave one of those glowing, > over-praising intros that no poet could live up to. > > Finnegan > > ------------------------------ > Instant access to the latest & most popular FREE games while you browse > with the Games Toolbar - Download Now! > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081113/c92255ba/attachment.html From AlMaginnes at aol.com Thu Nov 13 14:27:48 2008 From: AlMaginnes at aol.com (AlMaginnes@aol.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:36 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Reading Report: Charles Wright Message-ID: Too bad. I've heard Wright read a few times over the years and he's always delivered. Of course, he's one of my favorite poets and so I'm always psyched to hear him. (Believe it or not, there's been a book since Scar Tissue. Lightfoot came out last year). **************Get the Moviefone Toolbar. Showtimes, theaters, movie news & more!(http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1212774565x1200812037/aol?redir=htt p://toolbar.aol.com/moviefone/download.html?ncid=emlcntusdown00000001) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081113/10d559ba/attachment.html From Opus40-01 at opus40.org Thu Nov 13 14:52:19 2008 From: Opus40-01 at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:36 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Reading Report: Charles Wright In-Reply-To: <8CB13D6A80669C2-1618-11C8@webmail-db11.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CB13D6A80669C2-1618-11C8@webmail-db11.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <491C8573.2080005@opus40.org> Wish I'd known about it. Wright was another of my Iowa classmates. I would have tried to go. jforjames@aol.com wrote: > On Tuesday night I drove down to Yale to hear Charles > Wright read. I've followed his work over the years and this > was first opportunity I've had to hear him read. So I was > looking forward to the evening. > > The room was one of those oaken appointed, Gothic windowed, > large stone fireplaced old college halls. (You get smarter just sitting > inside a room like that.) Behind and above the lectern > was a huge mounted elk's head and rack. (I noticed its attention > never flagged during the reading.) The reading was well attended, > Maybe as many as 150 in the house. Not a single poetry book > for sale in the back of the room or near the entryway. (Probably > the best place to sell poetry books is at a reading and so many times > I find this to be the case.) Wright read in an easy and casual manner, > with a nice Tenn/Carolina/Virginia accent. > > Maybe I wasn't in the right mode (no pun intended) but I > was a little disappointed by the reading. I expected lanscape-based > and memory-driven meditations, but somehow > I thought the language would have a bit more verve to it. > I don't have the recent book Scar Tissue, which he > read quite a few poems from, so I don't know those poems > at all. Many of the poems he said had been > written in Montana near the Canadian border. > The last group of poems he read were all six-line poems > he called Sestets. Those really seemed light-weight > to me and not kind of work one should end a reading on. > But like I said, I may just have been in wrong frame > of mind to hear the work that night. > > One of Wright's asides (in paraphrase: [Reads title of > poem, pauses] "I'm really attracted to that title. When > you're get that way about titles, you know you're done for." > > JD "Sandy" McClatchy gave one of those glowing, > over-praising intros that no poet could live up to. > > Finnegan > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Instant access to the latest & most popular FREE games while you > browse with the Games Toolbar - Download Now! > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ Don't forget to order your copy of FILM NOIR! http://stores.lulu.com/store.php?fAcctID=2712239 From jforjames at aol.com Thu Nov 13 15:11:59 2008 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames@aol.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:36 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Reading Report: Charles Wright In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8CB13E337B3EA01-66C-1BE@FWM-D31.sysops.aol.com> Al, He may have read from Littlefoot too...probably did. I see in one of the Amazon?casual reviews someone said, Littlefoot is "an imagist's attempt to write a?long poem"... http://www.amazon.com/Littlefoot-Poem-Charles-Wright/dp/0374189668 Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: AlMaginnes@aol.com To: new-poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Thu, 13 Nov 2008 2:27 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Reading Report: Charles Wright Too bad. I've heard Wright read a few times over the years and he's always delivered. Of course, he's one of my favorite poets and so I'm always psyched to hear him. (Believe it or not, there's been a book since Scar Tissue. Lightfoot came out last year). Get the Moviefone Toolbar. Showtimes, theaters, movie news & more! _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081113/0aa9a540/attachment.html From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Thu Nov 13 15:22:34 2008 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:36 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] pound Message-ID: <4b65c2d70811131222sbd99cc1ye72e2053e8b61a33@mail.gmail.com> don't miss the Poem Talk: http://poemtalkatkwh.blogspot.com/ -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081113/ded86b06/attachment.html From Rsgwynn1 at cs.com Thu Nov 13 18:28:44 2008 From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com (Rsgwynn1@cs.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:36 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Reading Report: Charles Wright Message-ID: In a message dated 11/13/2008 12:42:55 PM Central Standard Time, jforjames@aol.com writes: > JD "Sandy" McClatchy gave one of those glowing, > over-praising intros that no poet could live up to. > > Finnegan Now that Tony Hecht has passed on, Sandy has to spread the wealth around a little. Not much of a Wright fan but I would like to hear him and meet him as we attended the same college, he about ten years earlier than I did. Sam -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081113/6d1aafb0/attachment.html From grahamd at ripon.edu Fri Nov 14 10:28:11 2008 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:36 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Inaugural poet Message-ID: <3F79BA51-A862-4BAF-957E-CD7E5985768C@ripon.edu> Lots of chatter floating about the online po-world, it seems, about the possibility that Barack Obama--actual intellectual & professor, reader of Derek Walcott, etc.-- might ask a poet to read at his Inauguration. As far as I know, all this is pure fantasy at this point. Nonetheless, a fun game to play. Dave Bonta conducted a completely unscientific survey the other day at his web site to gather opinions on who he should pick. The winner was Naomi Shihab Nye. Results here: http://www.vianegativa.us/2008/11/13/inaugural-poet-peoples-choice- winners/ I suppose the safe pick might be Kay Ryan, who's currently wearing the laurel wreath. Somehow I can't see her penning a big patriotic poem, though. . . . ======================================== David Graham grahamd@ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.mac.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081114/0cda1fb4/attachment.html From skip at louisiana.edu Fri Nov 14 10:42:38 2008 From: skip at louisiana.edu (Skip Fox) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:36 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Inaugural poet In-Reply-To: <3F79BA51-A862-4BAF-957E-CD7E5985768C@ripon.edu> Message-ID: <1BBE2B253B5C4648ABDBA6F3DC9B8A2D@win.louisiana.edu> Nathaniel Mackey was mentioned occasionally in this regard on the Buffalo list. I would love to see what he might write or use for such a magnificent occasion (or one that might be such now). -----Original Message----- From: new-poetry-bounces@wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto:new-poetry-bounces@wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of David Graham Sent: Friday, November 14, 2008 9:28 AM To: new-poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu & Views Subject: [New-Poetry] Inaugural poet Lots of chatter floating about the online po-world, it seems, about the possibility that Barack Obama--actual intellectual & professor, reader of Derek Walcott, etc.-- might ask a poet to read at his Inauguration. As far as I know, all this is pure fantasy at this point. Nonetheless, a fun game to play. Dave Bonta conducted a completely unscientific survey the other day at his web site to gather opinions on who he should pick. The winner was Naomi Shihab Nye. Results here: http://www.vianegativa.us/2008/11/13/inaugural-poet-peoples-choice-winners/ I suppose the safe pick might be Kay Ryan, who's currently wearing the laurel wreath. Somehow I can't see her penning a big patriotic poem, though. . . . ======================================== David Graham grahamd@ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.mac.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081114/292ba8e4/attachment.html From JforJames at aol.com Sat Nov 15 12:29:37 2008 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames@aol.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:36 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Inaugural poet Message-ID: Nathaniel Mackey sounds like a longshot to me. I'd wager a modest sum on the vital center (mainstream), someone like a Lucille Clifton or Natasha Tretheway. I don't imagine his team will repeat New Jersey's controversial misstep of pick Amiri Baracka as laureate. Even the president-elect's pick for a poet will be well-vetted, I'd bet. Finnegan In a message dated 11/14/2008 10:42:52 AM Eastern Standard Time, skip@louisiana.edu writes: Nathaniel Mackey was mentioned occasionally in this regard on the Buffalo list. I would love to see what he might write or use for such a magnificent occasion (or one that might be such now). -----Original Message----- From: new-poetry-bounces@wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto:new-poetry-bounces@wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of David Graham Sent: Friday, November 14, 2008 9:28 AM To: new-poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu & Views Subject: [New-Poetry] Inaugural poet Lots of chatter floating about the online po-world, it seems, about the possibility that Barack Obama--actual intellectual & professor, reader of Derek Walcott, etc.-- might ask a poet to read at his Inauguration. As far as I know, all this is pure fantasy at this point. Nonetheless, a fun game to play. Dave Bonta conducted a completely unscientific survey the other day at his web site to gather opinions on who he should pick. The winner was Naomi Shihab Nye. Results here: _http://www.vianegativa.us/2008/11/13/inaugural-poet-peoples-choice-winners/_ (http://www.vianegativa.us/2008/11/13/inaugural-poet-peoples-choice-winners/) **************Get the Moviefone Toolbar. Showtimes, theaters, movie news & more!(http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1212774565x1200 812037/aol?redir=http://toolbar.aol.com/moviefone/download.html?ncid=emlcntusdown00000001) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081115/cdb8d414/attachment.html From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Sat Nov 15 18:09:54 2008 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:36 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Inaugural poet In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4b65c2d70811151509r2e083560r7b277d9f4fda54f9@mail.gmail.com> I agree with James. Should I add: unluckily ? On Sat, Nov 15, 2008 at 6:29 PM, wrote: > Nathaniel Mackey sounds like a longshot to me. I'd wager a modest sum on > the vital center (mainstream), someone like a Lucille Clifton or Natasha > Tretheway. > I don't imagine his team will repeat New Jersey's controversial misstep of > pick Amiri Baracka as laureate. > Even the president-elect's pick for a poet will be well-vetted, I'd bet. > Finnegan > > In a message dated 11/14/2008 10:42:52 AM Eastern Standard Time, > skip@louisiana.edu writes: > > Nathaniel Mackey was mentioned occasionally in this regard on the Buffalo > list. I would love to see what he might write or use for such a magnificent > occasion (or one that might be such now). > > > > -----Original Message----- > *From:* new-poetry-bounces@wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto: > new-poetry-bounces@wiz.cath.vt.edu] *On Behalf Of *David Graham > *Sent:* Friday, November 14, 2008 9:28 AM > *To:* new-poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu & Views > *Subject:* [New-Poetry] Inaugural poet > > > > Lots of chatter floating about the online po-world, it seems, about the > possibility that Barack Obama--actual intellectual & professor, reader of > Derek Walcott, etc.-- might ask a poet to read at his Inauguration. As far > as I know, all this is pure fantasy at this point. > > > > Nonetheless, a fun game to play. Dave Bonta conducted a completely > unscientific survey the other day at his web site to gather opinions on who > he should pick. The winner was Naomi Shihab Nye. Results here: > > > > http://www.vianegativa.us/2008/11/13/inaugural-poet-peoples-choice-winners/ > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > Get the Moviefone Toolbar. > Showtimes, theaters, movie news & more! > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081116/709badae/attachment.html From jforjames at aol.com Sat Nov 15 18:34:31 2008 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames@aol.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:36 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Camlle Paglia explains how she saved poetry In-Reply-To: <491A4891.7070206@opus40.org> References: <491A4891.7070206@opus40.org> Message-ID: <8CB1591D8002B7A-14D0-A6A@WEBMAIL-MY26.sysops.aol.com> I didn't have a chance to read the whole piece till yesterday, and it looks like I'm of the minority viewpoint, but I think that Paglia did a good job defending the poems she picked for her anthology. Opinion is all critics have in the end...there is no proof as I said today after reading the piece: http://ursprache.blogspot.com/ She laid out her opinions on poetry quite nicely, I thought.?(And?she's obviously not intimidated?or held hostage to careerist niceties so much that she's dissuaded from expressing?displeasure at 'name poets'. Which I find refreshing.)? The other thing I think this?piece points to is how much the?'anthology pieces' we know come to us as?received icons. The poems are not questioned. Not interrogated. They were taught to as 'canonical' or?a certain?poetry interest group ?has 'vested' them and they go on, living-dead zombie poems pushed forward through time without question, Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: TheOldMole Sent: Tue, 11 Nov 2008 10:08 pm Subject: [New-Poetry] Camlle Paglia explains how she saved poetry http://www.bu.edu/arion/Paglia16-2.html? ? I was shocked and disappointed by what I found. Poem after poem, when approached from the perspective of the general audience rather than that of academic criticism, shrank into inconsequence or pretension. Or poets whom I fondly remembered from my college and graduate school studies turned out to have produced impressive bodies of serious work but no single poem that could stand=2 0up as an artifact to the classic poems elsewhere in the book. The ultimate standard that I applied in my selection process was based on William Butler Yeats? ?The Second Coming,? a masterpiece of sinewy modern English.? ? Ezra Pound, because of his generous mentoring of and vast influence on other poets (such as T. S. Eliot and William Carlos Williams), should have been automatically included in /Break, Blow, Burn/. But to my dismay, I could not find a single usable Pound poem?just a monotonous series of showy, pointless, arcane allusions to prior literature. The equally influential W. H. Auden was high on my original list. But after reviewing Auden?s collected pxoetry, I was stunned to discover how few of his poems can stand on their own in today?s media-saturated cultural climate.? ? -- Tad Richards? \ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081115/7633457b/attachment.html From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sat Nov 15 18:56:23 2008 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:36 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Inaugural poet In-Reply-To: <4b65c2d70811151509r2e083560r7b277d9f4fda54f9@mail.gmail.com> References: <4b65c2d70811151509r2e083560r7b277d9f4fda54f9@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <491F61A7.9010001@nut-n-but.net> All I know is that no inaugural poet will represent my poetic outlook any better than Obama (or any other politician) represents my political outlook. I'd prefer that no poet read at the inauguration, on the grounds that if one did, it would increase the competitive advantage for prizes of whatever mediocrity it is, and those doing the same kind of poetry. Which reminds me of something strange I noticed in my home town of Port Charlotte, Florida, a cultural backwater. The local Books-a-Million stocks only one poetry magazine, /American Poetry Review/. What's odd about that is that up to a few years ago, it stocked /Poetry./ So just when /Poetry/ became newsworthy, Books-a-Million stopped stocking it. I noticed because I had finally made it to the store to buy a copy of the issue with the visual poetry selection in it. Later, I checked at one of my local library's branches: none of the local public libraries or college libraries stocks /Poetry. /The high school I think of as my high school because for a long time I subbed there almost every schoolday used to have it, but stopped it--and /The New Yorker/--two years ago when it had to cut down on the magazine it carries. So I finally went to the /Poetry/ website and found that the whole issue is available for reading/viewing. That surprised me. I have to admit that it's decent of them to make their pages free. Another surprise was what had been selected as "visual poetry." Not much semantic value to most of the works. I thought it'd be the opposite, considering how verbocentric the editors of /Poetry/ are. I still want to buy a copy of the vispo issue but couldn't find a way to order it at the website. I e.mailed the magazine but haven't heard back. --Bob G. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081115/9256e3ed/attachment.html From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sat Nov 15 19:08:58 2008 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:36 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Camlle Paglia explains how she saved poetry In-Reply-To: <8CB1591D8002B7A-14D0-A6A@WEBMAIL-MY26.sysops.aol.com> References: <491A4891.7070206@opus40.org> <8CB1591D8002B7A-14D0-A6A@WEBMAIL-MY26.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <491F649A.6040702@nut-n-but.net> jforjames@aol.com wrote: > I didn't have a chance to read the whole piece till yesterday, and it > looks like I'm of the minority viewpoint, but I think that Paglia did > a good job defending the poems she picked for her anthology. Opinion > is all critics have in the end...there is no proof as I said today > after reading the piece: http://ursprache.blogspot.com/ > She laid out her opinions on poetry quite nicely, I > thought. (And she's obviously not intimidated or held hostage to > careerist niceties so much that she's dissuaded from > expressing displeasure at 'name poets'. Which I find refreshing.) > The other thing I think this piece points to is how much > the 'anthology pieces' we know come to us as received icons. > The poems are not questioned. Not interrogated. They were taught to as > 'canonical' or a certain poetry interest group > has 'vested' them and they go on, living-dead zombie poems pushed > forward through time without question, > Finnegan Including those of your friend (and mine) Wally. I doubt I'll ever have time, but I wouldn't mind doing a reply to Paglia's text. I think she's a Total Philistine. Good grief, anyone who could blithely write off ALL the poems of Pound, for instance, has to be subliterate. But, true, I only skimmed her text after the first ten or fifteen paragraphs. And, of course, I'm not bright enough to have risen above the poetry I've been indoctrinated to take as canonical. --Bob G. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081115/46a0eafb/attachment.html From halvard at earthlink.net Sat Nov 15 19:12:30 2008 From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:37 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Camlle Paglia explains how she saved poetry In-Reply-To: <8CB1591D8002B7A-14D0-A6A@WEBMAIL-MY26.sysops.aol.com> References: <491A4891.7070206@opus40.org> <8CB1591D8002B7A-14D0-A6A@WEBMAIL-MY26.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <187DAB60-855D-4F31-A352-EC7D65EFB304@earthlink.net> And those living-dead zombie poems live on the entrails of the living, so beware and be afraid. Be very afraid. Hal "Information cannot argue with a closed mind." --Mike Nichols and Elaine May Halvard Johnson ================ halvard@earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html On Nov 15, 2008, at 5:34 PM, JforJames@aol.com wrote: > I didn't have a chance to read the whole piece till yesterday, and > it looks like I'm of the minority viewpoint, but I think that Paglia > did a good job defending the poems she picked for her anthology. > Opinion is all critics have in the end...there is no proof as I said > today after reading the piece: http://ursprache.blogspot.com/ > She laid out her opinions on poetry quite nicely, I thought. (And > she's obviously not intimidated or held hostage to careerist > niceties so much that she's dissuaded from expressing displeasure at > 'name poets'. Which I find refreshing.) > The other thing I think this piece points to is how much the > 'anthology pieces' we know come to us as received icons. > The poems are not questioned. Not interrogated. They were taught to > as 'canonical' or a certain poetry interest group > has 'vested' them and they go on, living-dead zombie poems pushed > forward through time without question, > Finnegan > > > -----Original Message----- > From: TheOldMole > Sent: Tue, 11 Nov 2008 10:08 pm > Subject: [New-Poetry] Camlle Paglia explains how she saved poetry > > http://www.bu.edu/arion/Paglia16-2.html > > I was shocked and disappointed by what I found. Poem after poem, wh > en approached from the perspective of the general audience rather > than that of academic criticism, shrank into inconsequence or > pretension. Or poets whom I fondly remembered from my college and > graduate school studies turned out to have produced impressive > bodies of serious work but no single poem that could stand up as an > artifact to the classic poems elsewhere in the book. The ultimate > standard that I applied in my selection process was based on William > Butler Yeats? ?The Second Coming,? a masterpiece of sinewy modern > English. > > Ezra Pound, because of his generous mentoring of and vast influence > on other poets (such as T. S. Eliot and William Carlos Williams), > should have been automatically included in /Break, Blow, Burn/. But > to my dismay, I could not find a single usable Pound poem?just a > monotonous series of showy, pointless, arcane allusions to prior > literature. The equally influential W. H. Auden was high on my > original list. But after reviewing Auden?s collected pxoetry, I was > stunned to discover how few of his poems can stand on their own in > today?s media-saturated cultural climate. > > -- Tad Richards > \ > > Instant access to the latest & most popular FREE games while you > browse with the Games Toolbar - Download Now! > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081115/48976ccf/attachment.html From halvard at earthlink.net Sat Nov 15 19:26:50 2008 From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:37 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Camlle Paglia explains how she saved poetry In-Reply-To: <8CB1591D8002B7A-14D0-A6A@WEBMAIL-MY26.sysops.aol.com> References: <491A4891.7070206@opus40.org> <8CB1591D8002B7A-14D0-A6A@WEBMAIL-MY26.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <77E71B11-20DF-4A87-B109-C620A62E27D8@earthlink.net> Maybe you mean that nothing INTERESTING can be proven, James. Of course, value judgments can't be proven, whether related to poems, poetry, or anything else. Nor can another kinds of judgments. They can be supported, of course, but men can be hanged based on judgments that, like any other judgments, cannot be proven. Back in the day, when I was teaching, I used to try to get writing students beyond the quick and easy judgments that all too often blocked further consideration of a poem by asking them to start with what they saw in a poem, rather than what they thought about the poem. There are factual matters: e.g. length of lines, number of beats, number of words, presences of tropes of various kinds. (Not that even the number of words might not at times be a matter of judgment rather than fact.) Of course, one of the things good critics (even student critics) ought to know is the difference between matters of fact and matters of opinion or matters of judgment. Ergo . . . Hal ". . . the old is too old and the new is too old." --Gertrude Stein Halvard Johnson ================ halvard@earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html On Nov 15, 2008, at 5:34 PM, JforJames@aol.com wrote: > I didn't have a chance to read the whole piece till yesterday, and > it looks like I'm of the minority viewpoint, but I think that Paglia > did a good job defending the poems she picked for her anthology. > Opinion is all critics have in the end...there is no proof as I said > today after reading the piece: http://ursprache.blogspot.com/ > She laid out her opinions on poetry quite nicely, I thought. (And > she's obviously not intimidated or held hostage to careerist > niceties so much that she's dissuaded from expressing displeasure at > 'name poets'. Which I find refreshing.) > The other thing I think this piece points to is how much the > 'anthology pieces' we know come to us as received icons. > The poems are not questioned. Not interrogated. They were taught to > as 'canonical' or a certain poetry interest group > has 'vested' them and they go on, living-dead zombie poems pushed > forward through time without question, > Finnegan > > > -----Original Message----- > From: TheOldMole > Sent: Tue, 11 Nov 2008 10:08 pm > Subject: [New-Poetry] Camlle Paglia explains how she saved poetry > > http://www.bu.edu/arion/Paglia16-2.html > > I was shocked and disappointed by what I found. Poem after poem, wh > en approached from the perspective of the general audience rather > than that of academic criticism, shrank into inconsequence or > pretension. Or poets whom I fondly remembered from my college and > graduate school studies turned out to have produced impressive > bodies of serious work but no single poem that could stand up as an > artifact to the classic poems elsewhere in the book. The ultimate > standard that I applied in my selection process was based on William > Butler Yeats? ?The Second Coming,? a masterpiece of sinewy modern > English. > > Ezra Pound, because of his generous mentoring of and vast influence > on other poets (such as T. S. Eliot and William Carlos Williams), > should have been automatically included in /Break, Blow, Burn/. But > to my dismay, I could not find a single usable Pound poem?just a > monotonous series of showy, pointless, arcane allusions to prior > literature. The equally influential W. H. Auden was high on my > original list. But after reviewing Auden?s collected pxoetry, I was > stunned to discover how few of his poems can stand on their own in > today?s media-saturated cultural climate. > > -- Tad Richards > \ > > Instant access to the latest & most popular FREE games while you > browse with the Games Toolbar - Download Now! > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081115/deb53916/attachment.html From halvard at earthlink.net Sat Nov 15 19:34:58 2008 From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:37 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Camlle Paglia explains how she saved poetry In-Reply-To: <77E71B11-20DF-4A87-B109-C620A62E27D8@earthlink.net> References: <491A4891.7070206@opus40.org> <8CB1591D8002B7A-14D0-A6A@WEBMAIL-MY26.sysops.aol.com> <77E71B11-20DF-4A87-B109-C620A62E27D8@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <97404971-BCD7-43F3-AB7E-E29FCE069FE2@earthlink.net> Btw, I meant to ask where the Paglia piece appears. I may have missed the first mention of it. Hal "A discouraging number of reputable poets are sane beyond recall." --E. B. White Halvard Johnson ================ halvard@earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html On Nov 15, 2008, at 6:26 PM, Halvard Johnson wrote: > Maybe you mean that nothing INTERESTING can be proven, James. Of > course, > value judgments can't be proven, whether related to poems, poetry, > or anything > else. Nor can another kinds of judgments. They can be supported, of > course, > but men can be hanged based on judgments that, like any other > judgments, cannot > be proven. > > Back in the day, when I was teaching, I used to try to get writing > students beyond > the quick and easy judgments that all too often blocked further > consideration of a > poem by asking them to start with what they saw in a poem, rather > than what they > thought about the poem. There are factual matters: e.g. length of > lines, number of > beats, number of words, presences of tropes of various kinds. (Not > that even the > number of words might not at times be a matter of judgment rather > than fact.) > > Of course, one of the things good critics (even student critics) > ought to know is > the difference between matters of fact and matters of opinion or > matters of > judgment. > > Ergo . . . > > Hal > > ". . . the old is too old and the new is too old." > --Gertrude Stein > > Halvard Johnson > ================ > halvard@earthlink.net > http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > http://www.hamiltonstone.org > http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html > > > On Nov 15, 2008, at 5:34 PM, JforJames@aol.com wrote: > >> I didn't have a chance to read the whole piece till yesterday, and >> it looks like I'm of the minority viewpoint, but I think that >> Paglia did a good job defending the poems she picked for her >> anthology. Opinion is all critics have in the end...there is no >> proof as I said today after reading the piece: http://ursprache.blogspot.com/ >> She laid out her opinions on poetry quite nicely, I thought. (And >> she's obviously not intimidated or held hostage to careerist >> niceties so much that she's dissuaded from expressing displeasure >> at 'name poets'. Which I find refreshing.) >> The other thing I think this piece points to is how much the >> 'anthology pieces' we know come to us as received icons. >> The poems are not questioned. Not interrogated. They were taught to >> as 'canonical' or a certain poetry interest group >> has 'vested' them and they go on, living-dead zombie poems pushed >> forward through time without question, >> Finnegan >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: TheOldMole >> Sent: Tue, 11 Nov 2008 10:08 pm >> Subject: [New-Poetry] Camlle Paglia explains how she saved poetry >> >> http://www.bu.edu/arion/Paglia16-2.html >> >> I was shocked and disappointed by what I found. Poem after poem, wh >> en approached from the perspective of the general audience rather >> than that of academic criticism, shrank into inconsequence or >> pretension. Or poets whom I fondly remembered from my college and >> graduate school studies turned out to have produced impressive >> bodies of serious work but no single poem that could stand up as an >> artifact to the classic poems elsewhere in the book. The ultimate >> standard that I applied in my selection process was based on >> William Butler Yeats? ?The Second Coming,? a masterpiece of sinewy >> modern English. >> >> Ezra Pound, because of his generous mentoring of and vast influence >> on other poets (such as T. S. Eliot and William Carlos Williams), >> should have been automatically included in /Break, Blow, Burn/. But >> to my dismay, I could not find a single usable Pound poem?just a >> monotonous series of showy, pointless, arcane allusions to prior >> literature. The equally influential W. H. Auden was high on my >> original list. But after reviewing Auden?s collected pxoetry, I was >> stunned to discover how few of his poems can stand on their own in >> today?s media-saturated cultural climate. >> >> -- Tad Richards >> \ >> >> Instant access to the latest & most popular FREE games while you >> browse with the Games Toolbar - Download Now! >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081115/db0fcb27/attachment.html From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sat Nov 15 20:04:00 2008 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:37 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Camlle Paglia explains how she saved poetry In-Reply-To: <77E71B11-20DF-4A87-B109-C620A62E27D8@earthlink.net> References: <491A4891.7070206@opus40.org><8CB1591D8002B7A-14D0-A6A@WEBMAIL-MY26.sysops.aol.com> <77E71B11-20DF-4A87-B109-C620A62E27D8@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <491F7180.7090105@nut-n-but.net> Halvard Johnson wrote: > Maybe you mean that nothing INTERESTING can be proven, James. Of course, > value judgments can't be proven, Certainly they can, if you start with some unproven axiom as you must to prove anything whatever. For instance, a poem consisting of a blank page is indisputably inferior in aesthetic value to a poem consisting of a bunch of words (except maybe the first time some Clever Poet called a blank page a poem). But you're an incurable relativist, Hal, and I'm an Effectual Absolutist, by which I mean I believe nothing is absolutely certain but a lot of things are effectually absolutely certain. --Bob G. From jforjames at aol.com Sat Nov 15 20:08:17 2008 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames@aol.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:37 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Camlle Paglia explains how she saved poetry In-Reply-To: <97404971-BCD7-43F3-AB7E-E29FCE069FE2@earthlink.net> References: <491A4891.7070206@opus40.org><8CB1591D8002B7A-14D0-A6A@WEBMAIL-MY26.sysops.aol.com><77E71B11-20DF-4A87-B109-C620A62E27D8@earthlink.net> <97404971-BCD7-43F3-AB7E-E29FCE069FE2@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <8CB159EF13D9346-F0-2AB3@webmail-de21.sysops.aol.com> Tad, posted the link here...it's long: From: TheOldMole Sent: Tue, 11 Nov 2008 10:08 pm Subject: [New-Poetry] Camlle Paglia explains how she saved poetry http://www.bu.edu/arion/Paglia16-2.html? -----Original Message----- From: Halvard Johnson Sent: Sat, 15 Nov 2008 7:34 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Camlle Paglia explains how she saved poetry Btw, I meant to ask where the Paglia piece appears. I may have missed the first mention of it. Hal "A discouraging number of reputable poets ?are sane beyond recall." ?? ?? ?? ?? ?? ?? ?? ?? ?--E. B. White Halvard Johnson ================ halvard@earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html http://entropyandme.blogspot.com? http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html On Nov 15, 2008, at 6:26 PM, Halvard Johnson wrote: Maybe you mean that nothing INTERESTING can be proven, James. Of course, value judgments can't be proven, whether related to poems, poetry, or anything else. Nor can another kinds of judgments. They can be supported, of course, but men can be hanged based on judgments that, like any other judgments, cannot be proven. Back in the day, when I was teaching, I used to try to get writing students beyond the quick and easy judgments that all too often blocked further consideration of a =0 Apoem by asking them to start with what they saw in a poem, rather than what they thought about the poem. There are factual matters: e.g. length of lines, number of beats, number of words, presences of tropes of various kinds. (Not that even the number of words might not at times be a matter of judgment rather than fact.)? Of course, one of the things good critics (even student critics) ought to know is the difference between matters of fact and matters of opinion or matters of judgment. Ergo . . . Hal ". . . the old is too old and the new is too old." ? ?? ?? ?? ?? ?? ?? ?? ?? ?? ?--Gertrude Stein Halvard Johnson ================ halvard@earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html http://entropyandme.blogspot.com? http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html On Nov 15, 2008, at 5:34 PM, JforJames@aol.com wrote: I didn't have a chance to read the whole piece till yesterday, and it looks like I'm of the minority viewpoint, but I think that Paglia did a good job defending the poems she picked for her anthology. Opinion is all critics have in the end...there is no proof as I said today after reading the piece: http://ursprache.blogspot.com/ She laid out her opinions on poetry quite nicely, I thought.?(And?she's obviously not intimidatedA 0or held hostage to careerist niceties so much that she's dissuaded from expressing?displeasure at 'name poets'. Which I find refreshing.)? The other thing I think this?piece points to is how much the?'anthology pieces' we know come to us as?received icons. The poems are not questioned. Not interrogated. They were taught to as 'canonical' or?a certain?poetry interest group ?has 'vested' them and they go on, living-dead zombie poems pushed forward through time without question, Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: TheOldMole Sent: Tue, 11 Nov 2008 10:08 pm Subject: [New-Poetry] Camlle Paglia explains how she saved poetry http://www.bu.edu/arion/Paglia16-2.html? ? I was shocked and disappointed by what I found. Poem after poem, wh en approached from the perspective of the general audience rather than that of academic criticism, shrank into inconsequence or pretension. Or poets whom I fondly remembered from my college and graduate school studies turned out to have produced impressive bodies of serious work but no single poem that could stand up as an artifact to the classic poems elsewhere in the book. The ultimate standard that I applied in my selection process was based on William Butler Yeats? ?The Second Coming,? a masterpiece of sinewy modern English.? ? Ezra Pound, because of his generous mentoring of and vast influence on other poets (such as T. S. Eliot and William Carlos Williams), should have been automatically included in /Break, Blow, Burn/. But to my dismay, I could not find a single usable Pound poem?just a monotonous series of showy, pointless, arcane allusions to prior literature. The equally influential W. H. Auden was high on my original list. But after reviewing Auden?s collected pxoetry, I was stunned to discover how few of his poems can stand on their own in today?s media-saturated cultural climate.? ? -- Tad Richards? \ Instant access to the latest & most popular FREE games while you browse with the Games Toolbar - Download Now! _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry = _______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081115/1cf14d89/attachment.html From jforjames at aol.com Sat Nov 15 20:14:34 2008 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames@aol.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:37 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] ns Message-ID: <8CB159FD212F0F2-F0-2AD9@webmail-de21.sysops.aol.com> Paul Auster has written many novels, poems, screenplays, and works of nonfiction. Recent books include Man in the Dark (Henry Holt, 2008, The Brooklyn Follies (2005) and Oracle Night (2003). In 2008 his Collected Poems was released by Penguin. His translations include The Notebooks of Joseph Joubert: A Selection (North Point Press, 1983) and The Random House Book of Twentieth-Century French Poetry (Random House, 1982). -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081115/f345d422/attachment.html From jforjames at aol.com Sat Nov 15 20:22:08 2008 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames@aol.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:37 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] ns In-Reply-To: <8CB159FD212F0F2-F0-2AD9@webmail-de21.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CB159FD212F0F2-F0-2AD9@webmail-de21.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <8CB15A0E08AF78E-F0-2B1D@webmail-de21.sysops.aol.com> Sent in error...Just clicking on?the list address?by rote. Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: jforjames@aol.com To: new-poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Sat, 15 Nov 2008 8:14 pm Subject: [New-Poetry] ns Paul Auster has written many novels, poems, screenplays, and works of nonfiction. Recent books include Man in the Dark (Henry Holt, 2008, The Brooklyn Follies (2005) and Oracle Night (2003). In 2008 his Collected Poems was released by Penguin. His translations include The Notebooks of Joseph Joubert: A Selection (North Point Press, 1983) and The Random House Book of Twentieth-Century French Poetry (Random House, 1982). Instant access to the latest & most popular FREE games while you browse with the Games Toolbar - Download Now! _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081115/a7090b77/attachment.html From jforjames at aol.com Sat Nov 15 21:01:44 2008 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames@aol.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:37 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Camlle Paglia explains how she saved poetry In-Reply-To: <491F649A.6040702@nut-n-but.net> References: <491A4891.7070206@opus40.org><8CB1591D8002B7A-14D0-A6A@WEBMAIL-MY26.sysops.aol.com> <491F649A.6040702@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <8CB15A66776A53E-F0-2C48@webmail-de21.sysops.aol.com> I think what Paglia reacted to in Pound, and there's some truth to it, is that Pound never wrote a poem that wasn't in some way? about something else, be it?a pastiche,?provocation or persona. Stein famously called him the 'villager explainer'. But she might have said, as she did about her hometown, that in Pound's poetry "There's no there there."? And Ol'?Ez might have pointed to his noggin and said, "No, it's all here?here, and that's what matters."? As for Stevens, she does put two of his poems in her anthology...but seems to dislike the late Stevens. I don't think?this is uncommon. His work changed. You can still see the glimpses...but late Stevens wasn't as interested in the 'essential gaudiness' of poetry. He was more interested in how the mind would, if it could, replace faith/religion with experience. I think it's unfair to call her a Philistine. A Philistine wouldn't write a mini-essay to accompany 43 poems, as she did in Break, Break, Blow. She obviously is deeply attracted to poetry. She has made?an investment in the art, and risked an opinion on a?large number of poems. That doesn't mean she's right about things...but, my god, give me a reader like that any day, even if she's wrong. Mostly what passes for critical comment is second-hand and received readings passed along with a?nod?or a salute. Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: Bob Grumman Sent: Sat, 15 Nov 2008 7:08 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Camlle Paglia explains how she saved poetry jforjames@aol.com wrote: I didn't have a chance to read the whole piece till yesterday, and it looks like I'm of the minority viewpoint, but I think that Paglia did a good job defending the poems she picked for her anthology. Opinion is all critics have in the end...there is no proof as I said today after reading the piece: http://ursprache.blogspot.com/ She laid out her opinions on poetry quite nicely, I thought.?(And?she's obviously not intimidated?or held hostage to careerist niceties so much that she's dissuaded from expressing?displeasure at 'name poets'. Which I find refreshing.)? The other thing I think this?piece points to is how much the?'anthology pieces' we know come to us as?received icons. The poems are not questioned. Not interrogated. They were taught to as 'canonical' or?a certain?poetry interest group ?has 'vested' them and they go on, living-dead zombie poems pushed forward through time without question, Finnegan Including those of your friend (and mine) Wally.?? I doubt I'll ever have time, but I wouldn't mind doing a reply to Paglia's text.? I think she's a Total Philistine.? Good grief, anyone who could blithely write off ALL the poems of Pound, for instance, has to be subliterate.? But, true, I only skimmed her text after the first ten or fifteen paragraphs.? And, of course, I'm not bright enough to have risen above the poetry I've been indoctrinated to take as canonical. --Bob G.? _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081115/259a680e/attachment.html From jforjames at aol.com Sat Nov 15 21:13:30 2008 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames@aol.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:37 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Camlle Paglia explains how she saved poetry In-Reply-To: <8CB15A66776A53E-F0-2C48@webmail-de21.sysops.aol.com> References: <491A4891.7070206@opus40.org><8CB1591D8002B7A-14D0-A6A@WEBMAIL-MY26.sysops.aol.com><491F649A.6040702@nut-n-but.net> <8CB15A66776A53E-F0-2C48@webmail-de21.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <8CB15A80DB3C650-104C-3123@webmail-db15.sysops.aol.com> A Philistine wouldn't write a mini-essay to accompany 43 poems, as she did in Break, Break, Blow -- Correction: a mini-essay for each of the?43 poems she selected in Break, Blow, Burn. Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: jforjames@aol.com To: new-poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Sat, 15 Nov 2008 9:01 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Camlle Paglia explains how she saved poetry I think what Paglia reacted to in Pound, and there's some truth to it, is that Pound never wrote a poem that wasn't in some way? about something else, be it?a pastiche,?provocation or persona. Stein famously called him the 'villager explainer'. But she might have said, as she did about her hometown, that in Pound's poetry "There's no there there."? And Ol'?Ez might have pointed to his noggin and said, "No, it's all here?here, and that's what matters."? As for Stevens, she does put two of his poems in her anthology...but seems to dislike the late Stevens. I don't think?this is uncommon. His work changed. You can still see the glimpses...but late Stevens wasn't as interested in the 'essential gaudiness' of poetry. He was more interested in how the mind would, if it could, replace faith/religion with experience. I think it's unfair to call her a Philistine. A Philistine wouldn't write a mini-essay to accompany 43 poems, as she did in Break, Break, Blow. She obviously is deeply attracted to poetry. She has made?an investment in the art, and risked an opinion on a?large number of poems. That doesn't mean she's right about things...but, my god, give me a reader like that any day, even if she's wrong. Mostly what passes for critical comment is second-hand and received readings passed along with a?nod?or a salute. Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: Bob Grumman Sent: Sat, 15 Nov 2008 7:08 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Camlle Paglia explains how she saved poetry jforjames@aol.com wrote: I didn't have a chance to read the whole piece till yesterday, and it looks like I'm of the minority viewpoint, but I think that Paglia did a good job defending the poems she picked for her anthology. Opinion is all critics have in the end...there is no proof as I said today after reading the piece: http://ursprache.blogspot.com/ She laid out her opinions on poetry quite nicely, I thought.?(And?she's obviously not intimidated?or held hostage to careerist niceties so much that she's dissuaded from expressing?displeasure at 'name poets'. Which I find refreshing.)? The other thing I think this?piece points to is how much the?'anthology pieces' we know come to us as?received icons. The poems are not questioned. Not interrogated. They were taught to as 'canonical' or?a certain?poetry interest group ?has 'vested' them and they go on, living-dead zombie poems pushed forward through time without question, Finnegan Including those of your friend (and mine) Wally.?? I doubt I'll ever have time, but I wouldn't mind doing a reply to Paglia's text.? I think she's a Total Philistine.? Good grief, anyone who could blithely write off ALL the poems of Pound, for instance, has to be subliterate.? But, true, I only skimmed her text after the first ten or fifteen paragraphs.? And, of course, I'm not bright enough to have risen above the poetry I've been indoctrinated to take as canonical. --Bob G.? _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry Instant access to the latest & most popular FREE games while you browse with the Games Toolbar - Download Now! _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081115/32f99f40/attachment.html From AlMaginnes at aol.com Sat Nov 15 21:40:39 2008 From: AlMaginnes at aol.com (AlMaginnes@aol.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:38 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Inaugural poet Message-ID: I humbly volunteer myself because I read in Asheville NC the same day Obama spoke there and I was kind enough not to draw too many from his crowd. There was some concern that I would need the football stadium and he would get the book store.... **************Get the Moviefone Toolbar. Showtimes, theaters, movie news & more!(http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1212774565x1200812037/aol?redir=htt p://toolbar.aol.com/moviefone/download.html?ncid=emlcntusdown00000001) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081115/9596e84a/attachment.html From jbalizsprince at googlemail.com Sat Nov 15 21:48:34 2008 From: jbalizsprince at googlemail.com (Judy Prince) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:38 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Inaugural poet In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7db1d01b0811151848w4da395c5m84050162d4ea8eb6@mail.gmail.com> You definitely get points for this, Al. We'll pass them along to the P-E. Judy 2008/11/15 > I humbly volunteer myself because I read in Asheville NC the same day > Obama spoke there and I was kind enough not to draw too many from his crowd. > There was some concern that I would need the football stadium and he would > get the book store.... > > > > ------------------------------ > Get the Moviefone Toolbar. > Showtimes, theaters, movie news & more! > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081115/dc9d39e5/attachment.html From halvard at earthlink.net Sat Nov 15 21:54:22 2008 From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:38 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Camlle Paglia explains how she saved poetry In-Reply-To: <8CB159EF13D9346-F0-2AB3@webmail-de21.sysops.aol.com> References: <491A4891.7070206@opus40.org><8CB1591D8002B7A-14D0-A6A@WEBMAIL-MY26.sysops.aol.com><77E71B11-20DF-4A87-B109-C620A62E27D8@earthlink.net> <97404971-BCD7-43F3-AB7E-E29FCE069FE2@earthlink.net> <8CB159EF13D9346-F0-2AB3@webmail-de21.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: Thanks for the link, James. Not a long one, though, compared to some links I've seen. Hal "Go ahead and look for God, but tie up your camel first." --Sufi proverb Halvard Johnson ================ halvard@earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html On Nov 15, 2008, at 7:08 PM, JforJames@aol.com wrote: > Tad, posted the link here...it's long: > > From: TheOldMole > Sent: Tue, 11 Nov 2008 10:08 pm > Subject: [New-Poetry] Camlle Paglia explains how she saved poetry > > http://www.bu.edu/arion/Paglia16-2.html > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Halvard Johnson > Sent: Sat, 15 Nov 2008 7:34 pm > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Camlle Paglia explains how she saved poetry > > Btw, I meant to ask where the Paglia piece appears. I may have > missed the > first mention of it. > > Hal > > "A discouraging number of reputable poets > are sane beyond recall." > --E. B. Wh ite > > Halvard Johnson > ================ > halvard@earthlink.net > http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > http://www.hamiltonstone.org > http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html > > > On Nov 15, 2008, at 6:26 PM, Halvard Johnson wrote: > >> Maybe you mean that nothing INTERESTING can be proven, James. Of >> course, >> value judgments can't be proven, whether related to poems, poetry, >> or anything >> else. Nor can another kinds of judgments. They can be supported, of >> course, >> but men can be hanged based on judgments that, like any other >> judgments, cannot >> be proven. >> >> Back in the day, when I was teaching, I used to try to get writing >> students beyond >> the quick and easy judgments that all too often blocked further >> consideration of a >> poem by asking them to start with what they saw in a poem, rather >> than what they >> thought about the poem. There are factual matters: e.g. length of >> lines, number of >> beats, number of words, presences of tropes of various kinds. (Not >> that even the >> number of words might not at times be a matter of judgment rather >> than fact.) >> >> Of course, one of the things good critics (even student critics) >> ought to know is >> the difference between matters of fact and matters of opinion or >> matters of >> judgment. >> >> Ergo . . . >> Hal >> >> ". . . the old is too old and the new is too old." >> --Gertrude Stein >> >> Halvard Johnson >> ================ >> halvard@earthlink.net >> http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html >> http://entropyandme.blogspot.com >> http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com >> http://www.hamiltonstone.org >> http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html >> >> >> On Nov 15, 2008, at 5:34 PM, JforJames@aol.com wrote: >> >>> I didn't have a chance to read the whole piece till yesterday, and >>> it looks like I'm of the minority viewpoint, but I think that >>> Paglia did a good job defending the poems she picked for her >>> anthology. Opinion is all critics have in the end...there is no >>> proof as I said today after reading the piece: http://ursprache.blogspot.com/ >>> She laid out her opinions on poetry quite nicely, I thought. (And >>> she's obviously not intimidated or held hostage to careerist >>> niceties so much that she's dissuaded from expressing displeasure >>> at 'name poets'. Which I find refreshing.) >>> The other thing I think this piece points to is how much the >>> 'anthology pieces' we know come to us as received icons. >>> The poems are not questioned. Not interrogated. They were taught >>> to as 'canonical' or a certain poetry interest group >>> has 'vested' them and they go on, living-dead zombie poems pushed >>> forward through time without question, >>> Finnegan >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: TheOldMole >>> Sent: Tue, 11 Nov 2008 10:08 pm >>> Subject: [New-Poetry] Camlle Paglia explains how she saved poetry >>> >>> http://www.bu.edu/arion/Paglia16-2.html >>> >>> I was shocked and disappointed by what I found. Poem after poem, >>> wh en approached from the perspective of the general audience >>> rather than that of academic criticism, shrank into inconsequence >>> or pretension. Or poets whom I fondly remembered from my college >>> and graduate school studies turned out to have produced impressive >>> bodies of serious work but no single poem that could stand up as >>> an artifact to the classic poems elsewhere in the book. The >>> ultimate standard that I applied in my selection process was based >>> on William Butler Yeats? ?The Second Coming,? a masterpiece of >>> sinewy modern English. >>> >>> Ezra Pound, because of his generous mentoring of and vast >>> influence on other poets (such as T. S. Eliot and William Carlos >>> Williams), should have been automatically included in /Break, >>> Blow, Burn/. But to my dismay, I could not find a single usable >>> Pound poem?just a monotonous series of showy, pointless, arcane >>> allusions to prior literature. The equally influential W. H. Auden >>> was high on my original list. But after reviewing Auden?s >>> collected pxoetry, I was stunned to discove r how few of his poems >>> can stand on their own in today?s media-saturated cultural climate. >>> >>> -- Tad Richards >>> \ >>> >>> Instant access to the latest & most popular FREE games while you >>> browse with the Games Toolbar - Download Now! >>> _______________________________________________ >>> New-Poetry mailing list >>> New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu >>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > = > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > < A href="mailto:New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu">New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > Instant access to the latest & most popular FREE games while you > browse with the Games Toolbar - Download Now! > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081115/c54ae028/attachment.html From jbalizsprince at googlemail.com Sat Nov 15 22:36:14 2008 From: jbalizsprince at googlemail.com (Judy Prince) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:38 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Camlle Paglia explains how she saved poetry In-Reply-To: <8CB15A66776A53E-F0-2C48@webmail-de21.sysops.aol.com> References: <491A4891.7070206@opus40.org> <8CB1591D8002B7A-14D0-A6A@WEBMAIL-MY26.sysops.aol.com> <491F649A.6040702@nut-n-but.net> <8CB15A66776A53E-F0-2C48@webmail-de21.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <7db1d01b0811151936x585eef74x23df1d59428f3393@mail.gmail.com> Of course I join you, James, in your appreciation of Paglia's successful efforts to show us the things that poets've done that do not work. What she has done is courageous, to say the least. Few would've risked their professional associations and clout, little as it might be or have been, in order to set about looking at poetry rather than the politics of poetry. No kudos are in order for you and me, James, for recognising good poetry and good critiquing [Paglia's]. We knew all the time that poetry had curdled into confessional prose, unimaginative bellybutton-staring. We watched it, sometimes taught it, anthologised it, and passed along the nervous excitement of competitive ladder-climbings of un-poets. And now we say, oh gosh, Paglia's right! Imagine that! Let me be brutal with us, then. Not only did we know what poetry is and deny it, we hoped to participate in the rewards of those who practice un-poetry. We still do. Right now, every day, with our systems that elevate un-poetry over poetry, we continue to sell poetry short, to act the fool to our students, to pretend we 'see' something in a passage of words that, even judged in prose terms, would fail to move us. And, finally, we not only know what poetry is---brilliant, beautiful, fresh, astonishing words and associations---we know how to write it. But we don't write it. We're too lazy. Why write poetry when what passes so successfully for it is the thing rewarded? We're afraid. We're timid. We don't want to work hard. We refuse to unpopular ourselves, to separate from the bleaty sheep. We might be unable to write magnificent poetry----a frightening thought. Yet.....WE are running the show----not some stupidly-funded eggheads who seem never to want to publish our [generic 'our'] poems----WE are running the poetry show. And we just want to make it easy for ourselves. Maybe that group of several unpoems I wrote last year will be published, we think. It's not any worse than what's already published and acclaimed, we say. Why can't I get a piece of the pie, we reason? We [generic 'we'] might get pieces of the poetry pie, but they would've been given and accepted by fools. Thanks for the opportunity to stab at unclothed emperors who look and act a lot like us, every one of us. Judy 2008/11/15 > I think what Paglia reacted to in Pound, and there's some truth to it, is > that Pound never wrote a poem that wasn't in some way > about something else, be it a pastiche, provocation or persona. Stein > famously called him the 'villager explainer'. But she might have said, > as she did about her hometown, that in Pound's poetry "There's no there > there." And Ol' Ez might have pointed to his noggin and said, "No, it's all > here here, and that's what matters." > > As for Stevens, she does put two of his poems in her anthology...but seems > to dislike the late Stevens. I don't think this is uncommon. His work > changed. You can still see the glimpses...but late Stevens wasn't as > interested in the 'essential gaudiness' of poetry. He was more interested in > how the mind would, if it could, replace faith/religion with experience. > > I think it's unfair to call her a Philistine. A Philistine wouldn't write a > mini-essay to accompany 43 poems, as she did in Break, Break, Blow. She > obviously is deeply attracted to poetry. She has made an investment in the > art, and risked an opinion on a large number of poems. That doesn't mean > she's right about things...but, my god, give me a reader like that any day, > even if she's wrong. Mostly what passes for critical comment is second-hand > and received readings passed along with a nod or a salute. > Finnegan > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Bob Grumman > Sent: Sat, 15 Nov 2008 7:08 pm > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Camlle Paglia explains how she saved poetry > > jforjames@aol.com wrote: > > I didn't have a chance to read the whole piece till yesterday, and it looks > like I'm of the minority viewpoint, but I think that Paglia did a good job > defending the poems she picked for her anthology. Opinion is all critics > have in the end...there is no proof as I said today after reading the piece: > http://ursprache.blogspot.com/ > She laid out her opinions on poetry quite nicely, I thought. (And she's > obviously not intimidated or held hostage to careerist niceties so much that > she's dissuaded from expressing displeasure at 'name poets'. Which I find > refreshing.) > The other thing I think this piece points to is how much the 'anthology > pieces' we know come to us as received icons. > The poems are not questioned. Not interrogated. They were taught to as > 'canonical' or a certain poetry interest group > has 'vested' them and they go on, living-dead zombie poems pushed forward > through time without question, > Finnegan > > Including those of your friend (and mine) Wally. I doubt I'll ever have > time, but I wouldn't mind doing a reply to Paglia's text. I think she's a > Total Philistine. Good grief, anyone who could blithely write off ALL the > poems of Pound, for instance, has to be subliterate. But, true, I only > skimmed her text after the first ten or fifteen paragraphs. And, of course, > I'm not bright enough to have risen above the poetry I've been indoctrinated > to take as canonical. > > --Bob G. > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing listNew-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.eduhttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > ------------------------------ > Instant access to the latest & most popular FREE games while you browse > with the Games Toolbar - Download Now! > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081115/89fe9e51/attachment.html From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sat Nov 15 22:55:39 2008 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:38 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Camlle Paglia explains how she saved poetry In-Reply-To: <8CB15A66776A53E-F0-2C48@webmail-de21.sysops.aol.com> References: <491A4891.7070206@opus40.org><8CB1591D8002B7A-14D0-A6A@WEBMAIL-MY26.sysops.aol.com><491F649A.6040702@nut-n-but.net> <8CB15A66776A53E-F0-2C48@webmail-de21.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <491F99BB.4020503@nut-n-but.net> jforjames@aol.com wrote: > I think what Paglia reacted to in Pound, and there's some truth to it, > is that Pound never wrote a poem that wasn't in some way > about something else, be it a pastiche, provocation or persona. You mean he didn't write about himself? I'd say he did a few times, but why should he? > Stein famously called him the 'villager explainer'. And I've called Stein the village dumfounder, not famously. > But she might have said, > as she did about her hometown, that in Pound's poetry "There's no > there there." And Ol' Ez might have pointed to his noggin and said, > "No, it's all here here, and that's what matters." > Sorry, but no there there seems ridiculous to me. There are eras there, countries, a subway exit. . . . > As for Stevens, she does put two of his poems in her anthology...but > seems to dislike the late Stevens. I don't think this is uncommon. His > work changed. You can still see the glimpses...but late Stevens wasn't > as interested in the 'essential gaudiness' of poetry. He was more > interested in how the mind would, if it could, replace faith/religion > with experience. > I don't see that his work changed much. His mind of winter poem is early. > I think it's unfair to call her a Philistine. A Philistine wouldn't > write a mini-essay to accompany 43 poems, as she did in Break, Break, > Blow. I'm not so sure of that. But I meant Philistine in the sense of having a very narrow idea of what good poetry is. (And I knowed what you meant in the above.) > She obviously is deeply attracted to poetry. She has made an > investment in the art, and risked an opinion on a large number of > poems. That doesn't mean she's right about things...but, my god, give > me a reader like that any day, even if she's wrong. Mostly what passes > for critical comment is second-hand and received readings passed along > with a nod or a salute. > Finnegan Well, yes--that's what I've always said about Logan. I'll have to attentively read her essay to see if she really isn't re-cycling received opinions. Except pointing them at "new" poems instead of at the standards, which is fine by me, but would be finer by me if she didn't feel compelled to denigrate the standards, too. --Bob From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sat Nov 15 22:58:18 2008 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:38 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Camlle Paglia explains how she saved poetry In-Reply-To: <7db1d01b0811151936x585eef74x23df1d59428f3393@mail.gmail.com> References: <491A4891.7070206@opus40.org><8CB1591D8002B7A-14D0-A6A@WEBMAIL-MY26.sysops.aol.com><491F649A.6040702@nut-n-but.net><8 CB15A66776A53E-F0-2C48@webmail-de21.sysops.aol.com> <7db1d01b0811151936x585eef74x23df1d59428f3393@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <491F9A5A.8000300@nut-n-but.net> Only a quick note: Paglia is a controversialist, always has been. She risked nothing by attacking the poetry academics revere. --Bob G. From halvard at earthlink.net Sat Nov 15 23:13:09 2008 From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:38 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Camlle Paglia explains how she saved poetry In-Reply-To: <491F7180.7090105@nut-n-but.net> References: <491A4891.7070206@opus40.org><8CB1591D8002B7A-14D0-A6A@WEBMAIL-MY26.sysops.aol.com> <77E71B11-20DF-4A87-B109-C620A62E27D8@earthlink.net> <491F7180.7090105@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: Nothing in the realm of judgment is indisputable, Bob, not even the value of a blank page. The cost of the blank page in dollars and cents is a matter of fact howsomever. No more name-calling, please. Incurable relativist, harumph. Hal "One barium enema is worth a year of psychoanalysis." --Dr. Robert Whitlock Halvard Johnson ================ halvard@earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html On Nov 15, 2008, at 7:04 PM, Bob Grumman wrote: > Halvard Johnson wrote: >> Maybe you mean that nothing INTERESTING can be proven, James. Of >> course, >> value judgments can't be proven, > Certainly they can, if you start with some unproven axiom as you > must to prove anything whatever. For instance, a poem consisting of > a blank page is indisputably inferior in aesthetic value to a poem > consisting of a bunch of words (except maybe the first time some > Clever Poet called a blank page a poem). But you're an incurable > relativist, Hal, and I'm an Effectual Absolutist, by which I mean I > believe nothing is absolutely certain but a lot of things are > effectually absolutely certain. > > --Bob G. > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From Opus40-01 at opus40.org Sat Nov 15 23:16:34 2008 From: Opus40-01 at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:38 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] [Fwd: Shirley Jackson] Message-ID: <491F9EA2.5040307@opus40.org> Can anyone help me out here? -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Shirley Jackson Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2008 00:32:58 +0000 From: lee_edwards@prodigy.net To: tad@opus40.org Do you know the title of a Shirley Jackson story where this guy goes around doing good deeds for people all day, then he goes home and finds that his wife has been doing evil deeds all day, and they decide to switch off the next day? -- Lee Edwards -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ Don't forget to order your copy of FILM NOIR! http://stores.lulu.com/store.php?fAcctID=2712239 From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Sun Nov 16 04:00:45 2008 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:38 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Inaugural poet In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4b65c2d70811160100w22a0b4a6ma974be5dbf53cb96@mail.gmail.com> Just so sweet of you. *Hold and Behold: Here is a True Man ! * On Sun, Nov 16, 2008 at 3:40 AM, wrote: > I humbly volunteer myself because I read in Asheville NC the same day > Obama spoke there and I was kind enough not to draw too many from his crowd. > There was some concern that I would need the football stadium and he would > get the book store.... > > > > ------------------------------ > Get the Moviefone Toolbar. > Showtimes, theaters, movie news & more! > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081116/520d778a/attachment.html From alexdickow9 at yahoo.com Sun Nov 16 05:57:25 2008 From: alexdickow9 at yahoo.com (Alexander Dickow) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:38 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] paglia, yuck In-Reply-To: <200811160136.mAG1ajnK031691@wiz.cath.vt.edu> Message-ID: <71002.36479.qm@web35501.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I agree with Bob, but I share Judy and Jim's impatience with idolatry. I feel that way toward people's idolatry of Rimbaud, for all kinds of complicated and only partly justifiable reasons, for instance (a friend, to my dismay, just published a "poetic novel" about reading and over-interpreting Rimbaud obsessively, which sounds like my idea of purgatory). I tend to feel similarly about Pound - all of the Pound I've read, unfortunately. And I voice that irritation without hesitation, along with various other admirations (or indifferences) that I find silly or misplaced. But that doesn't mean that I dismiss Rimbaud or anyone else as "bad poetry" by any stretch of the imagination. And I believe (perhaps wrongly, but it's an ideal worth shooting for) that I'm able to express my dissension with some degree of delicacy and discernment. Barthesian nuance, let's say. Paglia's rhetorical posturing is repulsive to me as a result. Starting out by announcing that you're the only bestselling critic in poetry is a poor captatio benevoltentiae to say the least. Very definitely a Philistine, and an exceptionally arrogant and overweening Philistine. And not because I disagree with all or even most of her judgments, but because the spirit in which the essay was written is just profoundly wrong-headed! I sure hope you'll write that essay, Bob, and will take her rhetorical posture into account, and not merely the content of her judgments.... Amicalement, Alex From AlMaginnes at aol.com Sun Nov 16 06:55:57 2008 From: AlMaginnes at aol.com (AlMaginnes@aol.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:38 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Inaugural poet Message-ID: I'm just one guy but I do what I can ;-) **************Get the Moviefone Toolbar. Showtimes, theaters, movie news & more!(http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1212774565x1200812037/aol?redir=htt p://toolbar.aol.com/moviefone/download.html?ncid=emlcntusdown00000001) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081116/e525daba/attachment.html From jjeffreymail at yahoo.com Sun Nov 16 09:35:05 2008 From: jjeffreymail at yahoo.com (John Jeffrey) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:38 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] [Fwd: Shirley Jackson] References: <491F9EA2.5040307@opus40.org> Message-ID: <262953.73786.qm@web54105.mail.re2.yahoo.com> The Jackson story is: "One Ordinary Day, With Peanuts" ________________________________ From: TheOldMole To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views" Sent: Saturday, November 15, 2008 11:16:34 PM Subject: [New-Poetry] [Fwd: Shirley Jackson] Can anyone help me out here? -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Shirley Jackson Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2008 00:32:58 +0000 From: lee_edwards@prodigy.net To: tad@opus40.org Do you know the title of a Shirley Jackson story where this guy goes around doing good deeds for people all day, then he goes home and finds that his wife has been doing evil deeds all day, and they decide to switch off the next day? -- Lee Edwards -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ Don't forget to order your copy of FILM NOIR! http://stores.lulu.com/store.php?fAcctID=2712239 _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081116/8ebc8084/attachment.html From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sun Nov 16 10:16:44 2008 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:38 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Camlle Paglia explains how she saved poetry In-Reply-To: References: <491A4891.7070206@opus40.org><8CB1591D8002B7A-14D0-A6A@WEBMAIL-MY26.sysops.aol.com><77E71B11-20DF-4A87-B109-C620A62E2 7D8@earthlink.net><491F7180.7090105@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <4920395B.50208@nut-n-but.net> Halvard Johnson wrote: > Nothing in the realm of judgment is indisputable, Bob, not even the > value of a blank page. The cost of the blank page in dollars and cents > is a matter of fact howsomever. It's only your opinion that a price tag on a piece of paper indicates its cost, no matter how many agree with you. Unless we agree somewhere on some given fact-definer. Which you do in the case of the cost of things but not in the case of the aesthetic value of things. But it's just as objectively true to say that a piece of paper that has a minimal perceptual effect on a person has minimal aesthetic value as it is to say that the piece of paper costs such and such because its utilitarian value and considerations of supply and demand allow its owner to charge a particular price for it. > > No more name-calling, please. Incurable relativist, harumph. > > Hal Okay, Hal, I'll do the liberal avoidance of name-calling and say you have an incurable case of intellectual nihilism. --Bob From jeff.newberry at gmail.com Sun Nov 16 10:17:35 2008 From: jeff.newberry at gmail.com (Jeff Newberry) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:38 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Aphorisms Message-ID: <731bb17a0811160717q7f07a16dpfe7e1cf91375643a@mail.gmail.com> Hi all, I don't even know if I'm using the right terminology here, but I thought I'd throw out some thoughts I've been having on aphorisms and poetic form. I've been reading Jim Harrison's and Ted Kooser's *Braided Creek*, a kind of conversation in poetry the two had via letters, I think. Nonetheless, the book is a series of very short (2-5 line usually) aphorisms. I love the quiet simplicity of the poems, the way they attempt to read the world via images. Reading *Braided Creek*, I thought immediately of Antonio Machado (I have the Trueblood translation). In that volume are several sequences of proverbs/aphorisims. I love Machado's aphorisms: he sees mystery everywhere he looks. His suspicion of rationalistic reduction is, I think, undercut by the sheer delight he takes in the natural world. Still, I'm more interested in the form of the poems than I am in Machado's subjects (or Harrison's and Kooser's, for that matter). Thinking about the aphorisim as a form, I reread some of Pound's writing on Chinese ideograms, but Pound only takes me so far--given that he's extrapolating from Fellenosa's notebook (I think), I'm not even sure how far I can go with Pound, or how far he can take me, or even how much of his reading of haiku is informed by his own quest to "make it new," so to speak. I'm wondering if you all have any thoughts on the aphorism as a form--how it ticks, what it does, that kind of stuff. If you have any suggestions for critical reading, I'd appreciate that, as well. Best, Jeff Newberry -- Blog: http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081116/0e37531a/attachment.html From jjeffreymail at yahoo.com Sun Nov 16 10:17:33 2008 From: jjeffreymail at yahoo.com (John Jeffrey) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:39 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Camlle Paglia explains how she saved poetry References: <491A4891.7070206@opus40.org><8CB1591D8002B7A-14D0-A6A@WEBMAIL-MY26.sysops.aol.com> <491F649A.6040702@nut-n-but.net> <8CB15A66776A53E-F0-2C48@webmail-de21.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <848790.1750.qm@web54109.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Perhaps it's a minority opinion, but I don't have a problem with criticism that roars and knifes, especially when aimed at well-known (for lack of a better description) poets. They've been lauded and petted and "Oh, this is genius"-ed enough. They can handle a couple of hard slaps; it won't knock any grant money from their pockets. Also, I like reading stronger criticism because it makes me think more than the bland, feelings-sensitive criticism that I see in too many magazines (though, in those instances, "qualification" may be a more accurate term that "criticism.") And though I may or may not agree with the pounding opinions of Paglia or Disch or Winters, I certainly can't ignore them. They force me to form an opinion, whether "Yes! Finally, someone who speaks for me" or "Puhleeze. What a witless jackass." John J -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081116/5b4b2e84/attachment.html From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Sun Nov 16 10:46:52 2008 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:39 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Aphorisms In-Reply-To: <731bb17a0811160717q7f07a16dpfe7e1cf91375643a@mail.gmail.com> References: <731bb17a0811160717q7f07a16dpfe7e1cf91375643a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4b65c2d70811160746j53f86684of2768e1507631dfb@mail.gmail.com> James Finnegan's Ursprache: http://ursprache.blogspot.com/ On Sun, Nov 16, 2008 at 4:17 PM, Jeff Newberry wrote: > Hi all, > > I don't even know if I'm using the right terminology here, but I thought > I'd throw out some thoughts I've been having on aphorisms and poetic form. > > I've been reading Jim Harrison's and Ted Kooser's *Braided Creek*, a kind > of conversation in poetry the two had via letters, I think. Nonetheless, > the book is a series of very short (2-5 line usually) aphorisms. I love the > quiet simplicity of the poems, the way they attempt to read the world via > images. Reading *Braided Creek*, I thought immediately of Antonio Machado > (I have the Trueblood translation). In that volume are several sequences of > proverbs/aphorisims. I love Machado's aphorisms: he sees mystery > everywhere he looks. His suspicion of rationalistic reduction is, I think, > undercut by the sheer delight he takes in the natural world. Still, I'm > more interested in the form of the poems than I am in Machado's subjects (or > Harrison's and Kooser's, for that matter). > > Thinking about the aphorisim as a form, I reread some of Pound's writing on > Chinese ideograms, but Pound only takes me so far--given that he's > extrapolating from Fellenosa's notebook (I think), I'm not even sure how far > I can go with Pound, or how far he can take me, or even how much of his > reading of haiku is informed by his own quest to "make it new," so to > speak. > > I'm wondering if you all have any thoughts on the aphorism as a form--how > it ticks, what it does, that kind of stuff. If you have any suggestions for > critical reading, I'd appreciate that, as well. > > > Best, > Jeff Newberry > -- > Blog: http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081116/0e2ebbe4/attachment.html From cervantes.james at gmail.com Sun Nov 16 12:27:24 2008 From: cervantes.james at gmail.com (James Cervantes) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:39 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Aphorisms In-Reply-To: <4b65c2d70811160746j53f86684of2768e1507631dfb@mail.gmail.com> References: <731bb17a0811160717q7f07a16dpfe7e1cf91375643a@mail.gmail.com> <4b65c2d70811160746j53f86684of2768e1507631dfb@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <648208b60811160927m724fa19gfcac9912671047bb@mail.gmail.com> Skip Fox's "Sure Shots" in _For To_. - Jim On Sun, Nov 16, 2008 at 8:46 AM, Anny Ballardini wrote: > James Finnegan's Ursprache: > http://ursprache.blogspot.com/ > > > > On Sun, Nov 16, 2008 at 4:17 PM, Jeff Newberry wrote: > >> Hi all, >> >> I don't even know if I'm using the right terminology here, but I thought >> I'd throw out some thoughts I've been having on aphorisms and poetic form. >> >> I've been reading Jim Harrison's and Ted Kooser's *Braided Creek*, a kind >> of conversation in poetry the two had via letters, I think. Nonetheless, >> the book is a series of very short (2-5 line usually) aphorisms. I love the >> quiet simplicity of the poems, the way they attempt to read the world via >> images. Reading *Braided Creek*, I thought immediately of Antonio >> Machado (I have the Trueblood translation). In that volume are several >> sequences of proverbs/aphorisims. I love Machado's aphorisms: he sees >> mystery everywhere he looks. His suspicion of rationalistic reduction is, I >> think, undercut by the sheer delight he takes in the natural world. Still, >> I'm more interested in the form of the poems than I am in Machado's subjects >> (or Harrison's and Kooser's, for that matter). >> >> Thinking about the aphorisim as a form, I reread some of Pound's writing >> on Chinese ideograms, but Pound only takes me so far--given that he's >> extrapolating from Fellenosa's notebook (I think), I'm not even sure how far >> I can go with Pound, or how far he can take me, or even how much of his >> reading of haiku is informed by his own quest to "make it new," so to >> speak. >> >> I'm wondering if you all have any thoughts on the aphorism as a form--how >> it ticks, what it does, that kind of stuff. If you have any suggestions for >> critical reading, I'd appreciate that, as well. >> >> >> Best, >> Jeff Newberry >> -- >> Blog: http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > > > -- > Anny Ballardini > http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ > http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome > http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html > I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing > star! > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081116/1abc47f8/attachment.html From Opus40-01 at opus40.org Sun Nov 16 13:08:32 2008 From: Opus40-01 at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:39 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Aphorisms In-Reply-To: <648208b60811160927m724fa19gfcac9912671047bb@mail.gmail.com> References: <731bb17a0811160717q7f07a16dpfe7e1cf91375643a@mail.gmail.com> <4b65c2d70811160746j53f86684of2768e1507631dfb@mail.gmail.com> <648208b60811160927m724fa19gfcac9912671047bb@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <492061A0.6070301@opus40.org> You might check out J. V. Cunningham. James Cervantes wrote: > Skip Fox's "Sure Shots" in _For To_. > > - Jim > > On Sun, Nov 16, 2008 at 8:46 AM, Anny Ballardini > > wrote: > > James Finnegan's Ursprache: > http://ursprache.blogspot.com/ > > > > On Sun, Nov 16, 2008 at 4:17 PM, Jeff Newberry > > wrote: > > Hi all, > > I don't even know if I'm using the right terminology here, but > I thought I'd throw out some thoughts I've been having on > aphorisms and poetic form. > > I've been reading Jim Harrison's and Ted Kooser's /Braided > Creek/, a kind of conversation in poetry the two had via > letters, I think. Nonetheless, the book is a series of very > short (2-5 line usually) aphorisms. I love the quiet > simplicity of the poems, the way they attempt to read the > world via images. Reading /Braided Creek/, I thought > immediately of Antonio Machado (I have the Trueblood > translation). In that volume are several sequences of > proverbs/aphorisims. I love Machado's aphorisms: he sees > mystery everywhere he looks. His suspicion of rationalistic > reduction is, I think, undercut by the sheer delight he takes > in the natural world. Still, I'm more interested in the form > of the poems than I am in Machado's subjects (or Harrison's > and Kooser's, for that matter). > > Thinking about the aphorisim as a form, I reread some of > Pound's writing on Chinese ideograms, but Pound only takes me > so far--given that he's extrapolating from Fellenosa's > notebook (I think), I'm not even sure how far I can go with > Pound, or how far he can take me, or even how much of his > reading of haiku is informed by his own quest to "make it > new," so to speak. > > I'm wondering if you all have any thoughts on the aphorism as > a form--how it ticks, what it does, that kind of stuff. If > you have any suggestions for critical reading, I'd appreciate > that, as well. > > > Best, > Jeff Newberry > -- > Blog: http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > -- > Anny Ballardini > http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ > http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome > http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html > I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a > dancing star! > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ Don't forget to order your copy of FILM NOIR! http://stores.lulu.com/store.php?fAcctID=2712239 From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sun Nov 16 13:11:17 2008 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:39 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Camlle Paglia explains how she saved poetry In-Reply-To: <848790.1750.qm@web54109.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <491A4891.7070206@opus40.org><8CB1591D8002B7A-14D0-A6A@WEBMAIL-MY26.sysops.aol.com><491F649A.6040702@nut-n-but.net><8 CB15A66776A53E-F0-2C48@webmail-de21.sysops.aol.com> <848790.1750.qm@web54109.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <49206245.9010408@nut-n-but.net> What really irks me about Paglia is (and I'm being a crybaby here) that I can't make the kind of poems I want to because I have to throw away my days substitute teaching (and recovering at home from the ordeal) to get by and can't buy a computer and printer capable of doing the things I want to do, and this poetry ignoramus gets a book of her opinions on poems commercially published, and it apparently makes money. Okay, it's the way of the world, and I plod on, anyway, doing the best I can. Still, I got a right to be irked. --Bob G. From Opus40-01 at opus40.org Sun Nov 16 13:13:38 2008 From: Opus40-01 at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:39 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Camlle Paglia explains how she saved poetry In-Reply-To: <49206245.9010408@nut-n-but.net> References: <491A4891.7070206@opus40.org><8CB1591D8002B7A-14D0-A6A@WEBMAIL-MY26.sysops.aol.com><491F649A.6040702@nut-n-but.net><8 CB15A66776A53E-F0-2C48@webmail-de21.sysops.aol.com> <848790.1750.qm@web54109.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <49206245.9010408@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <492062D2.5030906@opus40.org> Maybe you need to sell out and join the Wilshburians. Bob Grumman wrote: > What really irks me about Paglia is (and I'm being a crybaby here) > that I can't make the kind of poems I want to because I have to throw > away my days substitute teaching (and recovering at home from the > ordeal) to get by and can't buy a computer and printer capable of > doing the things I want to do, and this poetry ignoramus gets a book > of her opinions on poems commercially published, and it apparently > makes money. Okay, it's the way of the world, and I plod on, anyway, > doing the best I can. Still, I got a right to be irked. > > --Bob G. > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ Don't forget to order your copy of FILM NOIR! http://stores.lulu.com/store.php?fAcctID=2712239 From Rsgwynn1 at cs.com Sun Nov 16 13:34:06 2008 From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com (Rsgwynn1@cs.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:39 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Aphorisms Message-ID: > Poem: "Proverbial Ballade" by Wendy Cope from Making Cocoa for Kingsley > Amis. ? Faber &Faber. (buy now) > > Proverbial Ballade > > Fine words won't turn the icing pink; > A wild rose has no employees; > Who boils his socks will make them shrink; > Who catches cold is sure to sneeze. > Who has two legs must wash his knees; > Who breaks the egg will find the yolk; > Who locks his door will need his keys? > So say I and so say the folk. > > You can't shave with a tiddlywink, > Nor make red wine from garden peas, > Nor show a blindworm how to blink, > Nor teach an old raccoon Chinese. > The juiciest orange feels the squeeze; > Who spends his portion will be broke; > Who has no milk can make no cheese? > So say I and so say the folk. > > He makes no blot who has no ink, > Nor gathers honey who keeps no bees. > The ship that does not float will sink; > Who'd travel far must cross the seas. > Lone wolves are seldom seen in threes; > A conker ne'er becomes an oak; > Rome wasn't built by chimpanzees? > So say I and so say the folk. > > Envoi > > Dear friends! If adages like these > Should seem banal, or just a joke, > Remember fish don't grow on trees? > So say I and so say the folk. > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081116/eb21419f/attachment.html From Opus40-01 at opus40.org Sun Nov 16 13:45:12 2008 From: Opus40-01 at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:39 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Aphorisms In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <49206A38.7070409@opus40.org> Questions My Son Asked Me, Answers I Never Gave Him - Nancy Willard Do gorillas have birthdays? Yes. Like the rainbow they happen, like the air they are not observed. Do butterflies make a noise? The wire in the butterfly?s tongue hums gold. Some men hear butterflies even in winter. Are they part of our family? They forgot us, who forgot how to fly. Who tied my navel? Did God tie it? God made the thread: O man, live forever! Man made the knot: enough is enough. If I drop my tooth in the telephone will it go through the wires and bite someone?s ear? I have seen earlobes pierced by a tooth of steel. It loves what lasts. It does not love flesh. It leaves a ring of gold in the wound. If I stand on my head will the sleep in my eye roll up into my head? Does the dream know its own father? Can bread go back to the field of its birth? Can I eat a star? Yes, with the mouth of time that enjoys everything. Could we xerox the moon? This is the first commandment: I am the moon, thy moon. Thou shalt have no other moons before thee. Who invented water? The hands of the air, that wanted to wash each other. What happens at the end of numbers? I see three men running toward a field. At the edge of the tall grass, they turn into light. Do the years ever run out? God said, I will break time?s heart. Time ran down like an old phonograph. It lay flat as a carpet. At rest on its threads I am learning to fly. Rsgwynn1@cs.com wrote: > >> Poem: "Proverbial Ballade" by Wendy Cope from Making Cocoa for >> Kingsley Amis. ? Faber &Faber. (buy now) >> >> >> Proverbial Ballade >> >> Fine words won't turn the icing pink; >> A wild rose has no employees; >> Who boils his socks will make them shrink; >> Who catches cold is sure to sneeze. >> Who has two legs must wash his knees; >> Who breaks the egg will find the yolk; >> Who locks his door will need his keys? >> So say I and so say the folk. >> >> You can't shave with a tiddlywink, >> Nor make red wine from garden peas, >> Nor show a blindworm how to blink, >> Nor teach an old raccoon Chinese. >> The juiciest orange feels the squeeze; >> Who spends his portion will be broke; >> Who has no milk can make no cheese? >> So say I and so say the folk. >> >> He makes no blot who has no ink, >> Nor gathers honey who keeps no bees. >> The ship that does not float will sink; >> Who'd travel far must cross the seas. >> Lone wolves are seldom seen in threes; >> A conker ne'er becomes an oak; >> Rome wasn't built by chimpanzees? >> So say I and so say the folk. >> >> Envoi >> >> Dear friends! If adages like these >> Should seem banal, or just a joke, >> Remember fish don't grow on trees? >> So say I and so say the folk. > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ Don't forget to order your copy of FILM NOIR! http://stores.lulu.com/store.php?fAcctID=2712239 From halvard at earthlink.net Sun Nov 16 13:56:49 2008 From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:39 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Camlle Paglia explains how she saved poetry In-Reply-To: <4920395B.50208@nut-n-but.net> References: <491A4891.7070206@opus40.org><8CB1591D8002B7A-14D0-A6A@WEBMAIL-MY26.sysops.aol.com><77E71B11-20DF-4A87-B109-C620A62E2 7D8@earthlink.net><491F7180.7090105@nut-n-but.net> <4920395B.50208@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <6D9B1996-05CC-46F8-9D9F-E7E9405B9065@earthlink.net> That's more like it! Hal "A hen is only an egg's way of making another egg." --Samuel Butler Halvard Johnson ================ halvard@earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html On Nov 16, 2008, at 9:16 AM, Bob Grumman wrote: > Okay, Hal, I'll do the liberal avoidance of name-calling and say you > have an incurable case of intellectual nihilism. > > --Bob From halvard at earthlink.net Sun Nov 16 14:02:31 2008 From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:39 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Aphorisms In-Reply-To: <731bb17a0811160717q7f07a16dpfe7e1cf91375643a@mail.gmail.com> References: <731bb17a0811160717q7f07a16dpfe7e1cf91375643a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <3B1CDBEF-C870-4129-87B3-AD949E5DDAC9@earthlink.net> And let's not forget Harry Mathews: "When the omelet's away, The eggs will play" --French proverb You can't make an omelet with good intentions: Too many cooks are better than no bread. One man's meat, as good as a mile, Once burned, spoils the broth. Too many cooks are worth two in the bush-- You can't make an omelet on the other side of the fence. Half a loaf is better than two in the bush-- Half a loaf in a storm! It's an ill wind that spoils the broth. You can't make an omelet--but few are chosen: A fool and his money are better than no bread. One man's meat gets the worm-- Look before you spoil the broth! Too many cooks take the hindmost. (One man's meat is greener on the other side of the fence. . . . Half a loaf is better than no silver lining. Half a loaf is better without breaking eggs: Man proposes, and spoils the broth. You can't make an omelet, and God disposes. One man's meat is better than no bread. One man's meat is worth two in the bush. (Sticks and stones spoil the broth.) Too many cooks, twice shy. Half a loaf is better than the other side of the fence. Half a loaf is as good as a mile. Half a loaf has its day. Many are called, but spoil the broth. --Harry Mathews fr. Selected Declarations of Dependence [Calais, Vermont: Z Press, 1977; repr. Los Angeles: Sun & Moon Press, 1996] Hal "Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not simpler." --Albert Einstein Halvard Johnson ================ halvard@earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081116/ab83cfb3/attachment.html From Opus40-01 at opus40.org Sun Nov 16 14:25:48 2008 From: Opus40-01 at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:39 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Aphorisms In-Reply-To: <3B1CDBEF-C870-4129-87B3-AD949E5DDAC9@earthlink.net> References: <731bb17a0811160717q7f07a16dpfe7e1cf91375643a@mail.gmail.com> <3B1CDBEF-C870-4129-87B3-AD949E5DDAC9@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <492073BC.6040109@opus40.org> Or Mark Strand. 1 If a man understands a poem, he shall have troubles. 2 If a man lives with a poem, he shall die lonely. 3 If a man lives with two poems, he shall be unfaithful to one. 4 If a man conceives of a poem, he shall have one less child. 5 If a man conceives of two poems, he shall have two children less. 6 If a man wears a crown on his head as he writes, he shall be found out. 7 If a man wears no crown on his head as he writes, he shall deceive no one but himself. 8 If a man gets angry at a poem, he shall be scorned by men. 9 If a man continues to be angry at a poem, he shall be scorned by women. 10 If a man publicly denounces poetry, his shoes will fill with urine. 11 If a man gives up poetry for power, he shall have lots of power. 12 If a man brags about his poems, he shall be loved by fools. 13 If a man brags about his poems and loves fools, he shall write no more. 14 If a man craves attention because of his poems, he shall be like a jackass in moonlight. 15 If a man writes a poem and praises the poem of a fellow, he shall have a beautiful mistress. 16 If a man writes a poem and praises the poem of a fellow overly, he shall drive his mistress away. 17 If a man claims the poem of another, his heart shall double in size. 18 If a man lets his poems go naked, he shall fear death. 19 If a man fears death, he shall be saved by his poems. 20 If a man does not fear death, he may or may not be saved by his poems. 21 If a man finishes a poem, he shall bathe in the blank wake of his passion and be kissed by white paper. Halvard Johnson wrote: > And let's not forget Harry Mathews: > > "When the omelet's away, > The eggs will play" > --French proverb > > You can't make an omelet with good intentions: > Too many cooks are better than no bread. > One man's meat, as good as a mile, > Once burned, spoils the broth. > Too many cooks are worth two in the bush-- > You can't make an omelet on the other side of the fence. > Half a loaf is better than two in the bush-- > Half a loaf in a storm! > It's an ill wind that spoils the broth. > > You can't make an omelet--but few are chosen: > A fool and his money are better than no bread. > One man's meat gets the worm-- > Look before you spoil the broth! > Too many cooks take the hindmost. > (One man's meat is greener on the other side of the fence. . . . > Half a loaf is better than no silver lining. > Half a loaf is better without breaking eggs: > Man proposes, and spoils the broth. > > You can't make an omelet, and God disposes. > One man's meat is better than no bread. > One man's meat is worth two in the bush. > (Sticks and stones spoil the broth.) > Too many cooks, twice shy. > Half a loaf is better than the other side of the fence. > Half a loaf is as good as a mile. > Half a loaf has its day. > Many are called, but spoil the broth. > > --Harry Mathews > > fr. /Selected Declarations of Dependence/ > > [Calais, Vermont: Z Press, 1977; repr. > Los Angeles: Sun & Moon Press, 1996] > > > Hal > > > "Everything should be made as simple as possible, > but not simpler." > --Albert Einstein > > Halvard Johnson > ================ > halvard@earthlink.net > http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html > > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > http://www.hamiltonstone.org > http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ Don't forget to order your copy of FILM NOIR! http://stores.lulu.com/store.php?fAcctID=2712239 From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sun Nov 16 15:37:03 2008 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:39 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Camlle Paglia explains how she saved poetry In-Reply-To: <492062D2.5030906@opus40.org> References: <491A4891.7070206@opus40.org><8CB1591D8002B7A-14D0-A6A@WEBMAIL-MY26.sysops.aol.com><491F649A.6040702@nut-n-but.net><8 CB15A66776A53E-F0-2C48@webmail-de21.sysops.aol.com> <848790.1750.qm@web54109.mail.re2.yahoo.com><49206245.9010408@nut-n-but.net> <492062D2.5030906@opus40.org> Message-ID: <4920846F.70205@nut-n-but.net> TheOldMole wrote: > Maybe you need to sell out and join the Wilshburians. I don't have the right genes to be able to do that, Mole. --Bob From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Sun Nov 16 16:34:09 2008 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:39 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Aphorisms In-Reply-To: <492073BC.6040109@opus40.org> References: <731bb17a0811160717q7f07a16dpfe7e1cf91375643a@mail.gmail.com> <3B1CDBEF-C870-4129-87B3-AD949E5DDAC9@earthlink.net> <492073BC.6040109@opus40.org> Message-ID: <4b65c2d70811161334t5fc4b8f7rba567e8caf3ba046@mail.gmail.com> Bravo! Beautiful poems, thanks to all, Anny On Sun, Nov 16, 2008 at 8:25 PM, TheOldMole wrote: > Or Mark Strand. > > 1 If a man understands a poem, > he shall have troubles. > > 2 If a man lives with a poem, > he shall die lonely. > > 3 If a man lives with two poems, > he shall be unfaithful to one. > > 4 If a man conceives of a poem, > he shall have one less child. > > 5 If a man conceives of two poems, > he shall have two children less. > > 6 If a man wears a crown on his head as he writes, > he shall be found out. > > 7 If a man wears no crown on his head as he writes, > he shall deceive no one but himself. > > 8 If a man gets angry at a poem, > he shall be scorned by men. > > 9 If a man continues to be angry at a poem, > he shall be scorned by women. > > 10 If a man publicly denounces poetry, > his shoes will fill with urine. > > 11 If a man gives up poetry for power, > he shall have lots of power. > > 12 If a man brags about his poems, > he shall be loved by fools. > > 13 If a man brags about his poems and loves fools, > he shall write no more. > > 14 If a man craves attention because of his poems, > he shall be like a jackass in moonlight. > > 15 If a man writes a poem and praises the poem of a fellow, > he shall have a beautiful mistress. > > 16 If a man writes a poem and praises the poem of a fellow overly, > he shall drive his mistress away. > > 17 If a man claims the poem of another, > his heart shall double in size. > > 18 If a man lets his poems go naked, > he shall fear death. > > 19 If a man fears death, > he shall be saved by his poems. > > 20 If a man does not fear death, > he may or may not be saved by his poems. > > 21 If a man finishes a poem, > he shall bathe in the blank wake of his passion > > > > and be kissed by white paper. > > > > Halvard Johnson wrote: > >> And let's not forget Harry Mathews: >> >> "When the omelet's away, >> The eggs will play" >> --French proverb >> >> You can't make an omelet with good intentions: >> Too many cooks are better than no bread. >> One man's meat, as good as a mile, >> Once burned, spoils the broth. >> Too many cooks are worth two in the bush-- >> You can't make an omelet on the other side of the fence. >> Half a loaf is better than two in the bush-- >> Half a loaf in a storm! >> It's an ill wind that spoils the broth. >> You can't make an omelet--but few are chosen: >> A fool and his money are better than no bread. >> One man's meat gets the worm-- >> Look before you spoil the broth! >> Too many cooks take the hindmost. >> (One man's meat is greener on the other side of the fence. . . . >> Half a loaf is better than no silver lining. >> Half a loaf is better without breaking eggs: >> Man proposes, and spoils the broth. >> >> You can't make an omelet, and God disposes. >> One man's meat is better than no bread. >> One man's meat is worth two in the bush. >> (Sticks and stones spoil the broth.) >> Too many cooks, twice shy. >> Half a loaf is better than the other side of the fence. >> Half a loaf is as good as a mile. >> Half a loaf has its day. >> Many are called, but spoil the broth. >> >> --Harry Mathews >> >> fr. /Selected Declarations of Dependence/ >> >> [Calais, Vermont: Z Press, 1977; repr. >> Los Angeles: Sun & Moon Press, 1996] >> >> >> Hal >> >> >> "Everything should be made as simple as possible, >> but not simpler." >> --Albert Einstein >> >> Halvard Johnson >> ================ >> halvard@earthlink.net >> http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html< >> http://home.earthlink.net/%7Ehalvard/index.html> >> http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com >> http://www.hamiltonstone.org >> http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html< >> http://home.earthlink.net/%7Ehalvard/vidalocabooks.html> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > > -- > Tad Richards > http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ > http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ > > Don't forget to order your copy of FILM NOIR! > http://stores.lulu.com/store.php?fAcctID=2712239 > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081116/c391e010/attachment.html From robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com Sun Nov 16 16:50:47 2008 From: robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com (Robin Hamilton) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:39 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Aphorisms In-Reply-To: <492073BC.6040109@opus40.org> References: <731bb17a0811160717q7f07a16dpfe7e1cf91375643a@mail.gmail.com><3B1CDBEF-C870-4129-87B3-AD949E5DDAC9@earthlink.net> <492073BC.6040109@opus40.org> Message-ID: <74B4C488FBA84E5BBC3C840D172B75EC@RobinPC> 13 Ways of Looking At A Blackbird -- pretty much formally defines this genre. The rest is recycle. (And Stevens separated his commonplace book aphorisms from the Blackbird.) R. From JforJames at aol.com Sun Nov 16 16:57:55 2008 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames@aol.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:40 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Aphorisms Message-ID: In a message dated 11/16/2008 10:17:51 AM Eastern Standard Time, jeff.newberry@gmail.com writes: I don't even know if I'm using the right terminology here, but I thought I'd throw out some thoughts I've been having on aphorisms and poetic form. Jeff, aphorism may be one of the most difficut 'literary forms' pin down or define. There is so much overlap in the genre. Think of just the terms have to express brief writings. (Not to mention that many aphorisms are in fact excerpted from longer texts and are deemed aphorisms only because to way they use words, with a certain pith or punch or philosophic viewpoint.) Aphorisms Epigrams Maxims Dicta Slogans Sententia Pens?es Axioms Aper?us Apothegms Adages Proverbs ­Sayings Saws Squibs Snippets Fragments Table-talk -and then the formal discipline of Day book Anas Journaling -- In follow-upr post Ill suggest a few books that worth looking into (for poets interested in the topic). Finnegan **************Get the Moviefone Toolbar. Showtimes, theaters, movie news & more!(http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1212774565x1200812037/aol?redir=htt p://toolbar.aol.com/moviefone/download.html?ncid=emlcntusdown00000001) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081116/c6ce472f/attachment.html From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Sun Nov 16 17:19:37 2008 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:40 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Camlle Paglia explains how she saved poetry In-Reply-To: <4920846F.70205@nut-n-but.net> References: <491A4891.7070206@opus40.org> <8CB1591D8002B7A-14D0-A6A@WEBMAIL-MY26.sysops.aol.com> <491F649A.6040702@nut-n-but.net> <848790.1750.qm@web54109.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <49206245.9010408@nut-n-but.net> <492062D2.5030906@opus40.org> <4920846F.70205@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <4b65c2d70811161419r40aec87cyc4879b1dc80b36d7@mail.gmail.com> Don't worry Bob, we can help you to sell out. On Sun, Nov 16, 2008 at 9:37 PM, Bob Grumman wrote: > TheOldMole wrote: > >> Maybe you need to sell out and join the Wilshburians. >> > I don't have the right genes to be able to do that, Mole. > > --Bob > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081116/c709cdee/attachment.html From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sun Nov 16 17:48:19 2008 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:40 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Camlle Paglia explains how she saved poetry In-Reply-To: <4b65c2d70811161419r40aec87cyc4879b1dc80b36d7@mail.gmail.com> References: <491A4891.7070206@opus40.org><8CB1591D8002B7A-14D0-A6A@WEBMAIL-MY26.sysops.aol.com><491F649A.6040702@nut-n-but.net><8 48790.1750.qm@web54109.mail.re2.yahoo.com><49206245.9010408@nut-n-but.net> <492062D2.5030906@opus40.org><4920846F.70205@nut-n-but.net> <4b65c2d70811161419r40aec87cyc4879b1dc80b36d7@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4920A333.7020604@nut-n-but.net> Anny Ballardini wrote: > Don't worry Bob, we can help you to sell out. Hey, maybe YOU can, Anny--Paglia's an Eye-talyan, too! Do you know her?! --Bobbino Grummanni From cervantes.james at gmail.com Sun Nov 16 17:50:58 2008 From: cervantes.james at gmail.com (James Cervantes) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:40 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Aphorisms In-Reply-To: <74B4C488FBA84E5BBC3C840D172B75EC@RobinPC> References: <731bb17a0811160717q7f07a16dpfe7e1cf91375643a@mail.gmail.com> <3B1CDBEF-C870-4129-87B3-AD949E5DDAC9@earthlink.net> <492073BC.6040109@opus40.org> <74B4C488FBA84E5BBC3C840D172B75EC@RobinPC> Message-ID: <648208b60811161450n1c14fabmcd7649498fb3d2de@mail.gmail.com> Not really. There must be 13,000 ways of looking at a blackbird, and another 130,000 of ways to avoid looking at a blackbird. - Jim On Sun, Nov 16, 2008 at 2:50 PM, Robin Hamilton < robin.hamilton2@btinternet.com> wrote: > 13 Ways of Looking At A Blackbird -- pretty much formally defines this > genre. > > The rest is recycle. > > (And Stevens separated his commonplace book aphorisms from the Blackbird.) > > R. > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning http://www.fieralingue.it/documenti/mr_bondo.pdf http://www.poetserv.org/jvc/home/index.html http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamescervantes/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081116/9b996279/attachment.html From robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com Sun Nov 16 18:00:27 2008 From: robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com (Robin Hamilton) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:40 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Aphorisms In-Reply-To: <648208b60811161450n1c14fabmcd7649498fb3d2de@mail.gmail.com> References: <731bb17a0811160717q7f07a16dpfe7e1cf91375643a@mail.gmail.com><3B1CDBEF-C870-4129-87B3-AD949E5DDAC9@earthlink.net><492073BC.6040109@opus40.org><74B4C488FBA84E5BBC3C840D172B75EC@RobinPC> <648208b60811161450n1c14fabmcd7649498fb3d2de@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <56952E88E8A343708E49EC1D05B99F89@RobinPC> << Not really. There must be 13,000 ways of looking at a blackbird, and another 130,000 of ways to avoid looking at a blackbird. - Jim >> Of course. But there are far fewer ways of doing it if you are the Vice-President of the Hartford Accident and Indemnity and Insurance Society, and want to simultaneously send up Imagism, and platitudes. {Ouch -- Stevens had a viscious sense of humour, both before and after Harmonium.} Maybe Pound did it earlier, and more succinctly, in: Spring ... Too long ... Gongora ... ... but Stevens (takes one to know one, and he had a lethal attraction to apothegrams) put his finger on the spot in Dat Blackbird. Lots of commentary, but only thirteen blackbrides ... R. ********************* On Sun, Nov 16, 2008 at 2:50 PM, Robin Hamilton wrote: 13 Ways of Looking At A Blackbird -- pretty much formally defines this genre. The rest is recycle. (And Stevens separated his commonplace book aphorisms from the Blackbird.) R. From Opus40-01 at opus40.org Sun Nov 16 18:20:07 2008 From: Opus40-01 at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:40 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Aphorisms In-Reply-To: <4b65c2d70811161334t5fc4b8f7rba567e8caf3ba046@mail.gmail.com> References: <731bb17a0811160717q7f07a16dpfe7e1cf91375643a@mail.gmail.com> <3B1CDBEF-C870-4129-87B3-AD949E5DDAC9@earthlink.net> <492073BC.6040109@opus40.org> <4b65c2d70811161334t5fc4b8f7rba567e8caf3ba046@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4920AAA7.8000703@opus40.org> Anny -- is there a way you could make the Autumn anthology easier to find? Anny Ballardini wrote: > Bravo! Beautiful poems, thanks to all, > Anny > > On Sun, Nov 16, 2008 at 8:25 PM, TheOldMole > wrote: > > Or Mark Strand. > > 1 If a man understands a poem, > he shall have troubles. > > 2 If a man lives with a poem, > he shall die lonely. > > 3 If a man lives with two poems, > he shall be unfaithful to one. > > 4 If a man conceives of a poem, > he shall have one less child. > > 5 If a man conceives of two poems, > he shall have two children less. > > 6 If a man wears a crown on his head as he writes, > he shall be found out. > > 7 If a man wears no crown on his head as he writes, > he shall deceive no one but himself. > > 8 If a man gets angry at a poem, > he shall be scorned by men. > > 9 If a man continues to be angry at a poem, > he shall be scorned by women. > > 10 If a man publicly denounces poetry, > his shoes will fill with urine. > > 11 If a man gives up poetry for power, > he shall have lots of power. > > 12 If a man brags about his poems, > he shall be loved by fools. > > 13 If a man brags about his poems and loves fools, > he shall write no more. > > 14 If a man craves attention because of his poems, > he shall be like a jackass in moonlight. > > 15 If a man writes a poem and praises the poem of a fellow, > he shall have a beautiful mistress. > > 16 If a man writes a poem and praises the poem of a fellow overly, > he shall drive his mistress away. > > 17 If a man claims the poem of another, > his heart shall double in size. > > 18 If a man lets his poems go naked, > he shall fear death. > > 19 If a man fears death, > he shall be saved by his poems. > > 20 If a man does not fear death, > he may or may not be saved by his poems. > > 21 If a man finishes a poem, > he shall bathe in the blank wake of his passion > > > > and be kissed by white paper. > > > > Halvard Johnson wrote: > > And let's not forget Harry Mathews: > > "When the omelet's away, > The eggs will play" > --French proverb > > You can't make an omelet with good intentions: > Too many cooks are better than no bread. > One man's meat, as good as a mile, > Once burned, spoils the broth. > Too many cooks are worth two in the bush-- > You can't make an omelet on the other side of the fence. > Half a loaf is better than two in the bush-- > Half a loaf in a storm! > It's an ill wind that spoils the broth. > You can't make an omelet--but few are chosen: > A fool and his money are better than no bread. > One man's meat gets the worm-- > Look before you spoil the broth! > Too many cooks take the hindmost. > (One man's meat is greener on the other side of the fence. . . . > Half a loaf is better than no silver lining. > Half a loaf is better without breaking eggs: > Man proposes, and spoils the broth. > > You can't make an omelet, and God disposes. > One man's meat is better than no bread. > One man's meat is worth two in the bush. > (Sticks and stones spoil the broth.) > Too many cooks, twice shy. > Half a loaf is better than the other side of the fence. > Half a loaf is as good as a mile. > Half a loaf has its day. > Many are called, but spoil the broth. > > --Harry Mathews > > fr. /Selected Declarations of Dependence/ > > [Calais, Vermont: Z Press, 1977; repr. > Los Angeles: Sun & Moon Press, 1996] > > > Hal > > > "Everything should be made as simple as possible, > but not simpler." > --Albert Einstein > > Halvard Johnson > ================ > halvard@earthlink.net > > > http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html > > > > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > http://www.hamiltonstone.org > http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > -- > Tad Richards > http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ > http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ > > Don't forget to order your copy of FILM NOIR! > http://stores.lulu.com/store.php?fAcctID=2712239 > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > -- > Anny Ballardini > http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ > http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome > http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html > I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a > dancing star! > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ Don't forget to order your copy of FILM NOIR! http://stores.lulu.com/store.php?fAcctID=2712239 From Opus40-01 at opus40.org Sun Nov 16 18:22:25 2008 From: Opus40-01 at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:40 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Aphorisms In-Reply-To: <648208b60811161450n1c14fabmcd7649498fb3d2de@mail.gmail.com> References: <731bb17a0811160717q7f07a16dpfe7e1cf91375643a@mail.gmail.com> <3B1CDBEF-C870-4129-87B3-AD949E5DDAC9@earthlink.net> <492073BC.6040109@opus40.org> <74B4C488FBA84E5BBC3C840D172B75EC@RobinPC> <648208b60811161450n1c14fabmcd7649498fb3d2de@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4920AB31.4000409@opus40.org> I wonder if we could try a NewPo round-robin aphorism poem...perhaps 13 ways to avoid looking at a blackbird? James Cervantes wrote: > Not really. There must be 13,000 ways of looking at a blackbird, and > another 130,000 of ways to avoid looking at a blackbird. > > - Jim > > On Sun, Nov 16, 2008 at 2:50 PM, Robin Hamilton > > wrote: > > 13 Ways of Looking At A Blackbird -- pretty much formally defines > this genre. > > The rest is recycle. > > (And Stevens separated his commonplace book aphorisms from the > Blackbird.) > > R. > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > -- > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org > http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning > http://www.fieralingue.it/documenti/mr_bondo.pdf > http://www.poetserv.org/jvc/home/index.html > http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamescervantes/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ Don't forget to order your copy of FILM NOIR! http://stores.lulu.com/store.php?fAcctID=2712239 From robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com Sun Nov 16 18:19:59 2008 From: robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com (Robin Hamilton) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:40 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Aphorisms In-Reply-To: <56952E88E8A343708E49EC1D05B99F89@RobinPC> References: <731bb17a0811160717q7f07a16dpfe7e1cf91375643a@mail.gmail.com><3B1CDBEF-C870-4129-87B3-AD949E5DDAC9@earthlink.net><492073BC.6040109@opus40.org><74B4C488FBA84E5BBC3C840D172B75EC@RobinPC><648208b60811161450n1c14fabmcd7649498fb3d2de@mail.gmail.com> <56952E88E8A343708E49EC1D05B99F89@RobinPC> Message-ID: <76317C478F824485A9D91C536D764B0A@RobinPC> << There must be 13,000 ways of looking at a blackbird, and > another 130,000 of ways to avoid looking at a blackbird. > > - Jim ... and then there's the Sermon on the Mount, a wonderful collection of aphoristic apothegrams ... But look what Alfred Jarry did to it in "The Crucifiction Considered As a Downhill Bicycle Race." Some things you can't reply to. R. From cervantes.james at gmail.com Sun Nov 16 19:08:26 2008 From: cervantes.james at gmail.com (James Cervantes) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:40 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Aphorisms In-Reply-To: <4920AB31.4000409@opus40.org> References: <731bb17a0811160717q7f07a16dpfe7e1cf91375643a@mail.gmail.com> <3B1CDBEF-C870-4129-87B3-AD949E5DDAC9@earthlink.net> <492073BC.6040109@opus40.org> <74B4C488FBA84E5BBC3C840D172B75EC@RobinPC> <648208b60811161450n1c14fabmcd7649498fb3d2de@mail.gmail.com> <4920AB31.4000409@opus40.org> Message-ID: <648208b60811161608m79a16654x773ec21aea02892d@mail.gmail.com> Look at the robin.Listen to the mockingbird. - Jim On Sun, Nov 16, 2008 at 4:22 PM, TheOldMole wrote: > I wonder if we could try a NewPo round-robin aphorism poem...perhaps 13 > ways to avoid looking at a blackbird? > > James Cervantes wrote: > >> Not really. There must be 13,000 ways of looking at a blackbird, and >> another 130,000 of ways to avoid looking at a blackbird. >> >> - Jim >> >> On Sun, Nov 16, 2008 at 2:50 PM, Robin Hamilton < >> robin.hamilton2@btinternet.com > >> wrote: >> >> 13 Ways of Looking At A Blackbird -- pretty much formally defines >> this genre. >> >> The rest is recycle. >> >> (And Stevens separated his commonplace book aphorisms from the >> Blackbird.) >> >> R. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> >> >> >> -- >> >> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >> Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org >> http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning >> http://www.fieralingue.it/documenti/mr_bondo.pdf >> http://www.poetserv.org/jvc/home/index.html >> http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamescervantes/ >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > > -- > Tad Richards > http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ > http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ > > Don't forget to order your copy of FILM NOIR! > http://stores.lulu.com/store.php?fAcctID=2712239 > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081116/00f2b41d/attachment.html From jforjames at aol.com Sun Nov 16 20:02:43 2008 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames@aol.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:40 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Aphorisms In-Reply-To: <76317C478F824485A9D91C536D764B0A@RobinPC> References: <731bb17a0811160717q7f07a16dpfe7e1cf91375643a@mail.gmail.com><3B1CDBEF-C870-4129-87B3-AD949E5DDAC9@earthlink.net><492073BC.6040109@opus40.org><74B4C488FBA84E5BBC3C840D172B75EC@RobinPC><648208b60811161450n1c14fabmcd7649498fb3d2de@mail.gmail.com><56952E88E8A343708E49EC1D05B99F89@RobinPC> <76317C478F824485A9D91C536D764B0A@RobinPC> Message-ID: <8CB166752B9354B-860-10DC@WEBMAIL-DC17.sysops.aol.com> Missed this term... Obiter Dicta Here's?my partial list of aphorists who speak the language of poetry.... Oscar Wilde Joseph Joubert Henry David Thoreau Paul Val?ry Friedrich Nietzsche Novalis Friedrich Von Schlegel Lucian Blaga Arthur Schopenhauer Juan Ram?n Jim?nez Vilhelm Ekelund Friedrich Von Schlegel Antonio Porchia E.M. Cioran Don Paterson Mina Loy Elias Canetti Wallace Stevens James Richardson -- Finnegan Henry David Thoreau Paul Val?ry Friedrich Nietzsche Novalis Friedrich Von Schlegel Lucian Blaga Arthur Schopenhauer Juan Ram?n Jim?nez Vilhelm Ekelund Friedrich Von Schlegel Antonio Porchia E.M. Cioran Don Paterson Mina Loy Elias Canetti Wallace Stevens James Richardson -- Finnegan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081116/c2df0fea/attachment.html From jforjames at aol.com Sun Nov 16 20:49:40 2008 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames@aol.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:40 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Aphorisms In-Reply-To: <648208b60811161608m79a16654x773ec21aea02892d@mail.gmail.com> References: <731bb17a0811160717q7f07a16dpfe7e1cf91375643a@mail.gmail.com><3B1CDBEF-C870-4129-87B3-AD949E5DDAC9@earthlink.net><492073BC.6040109@opus40.org><74B4C488FBA84E5BBC3C840D172B75EC@RobinPC><648208b60811161450n1c14fabmcd7649498fb3d2de@mail.gmail.com><4920AB31.4000409@opus40.org> <648208b60811161608m79a16654x773ec21aea02892d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <8CB166DE402BEFB-860-1321@WEBMAIL-DC17.sysops.aol.com> In Pieces http://fraglit.com/impassio/ipa.htm This is a good collection. Ritsos and Stafford (the elder and younger) among others included. Finnegan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081116/006ba54d/attachment.html From JforJames at aol.com Sun Nov 16 21:48:25 2008 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames@aol.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:40 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Lewis Hyde profile in NYT Mag Message-ID: _http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/16/magazine/16hyde-t.html_ (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/16/magazine/16hyde-t.html) The source of much of this reverence is Hyde?s first book, ?The Gift? (1983), which has never been out of print (it was recently rereleased by Vintage in a 25th-anniversary edition) and which tries to reconcile the value of doing creative work with the exigencies of a market economy. **************Get the Moviefone Toolbar. Showtimes, theaters, movie news & more!(http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1212774565x1200812037/aol?redir=htt p://toolbar.aol.com/moviefone/download.html?ncid=emlcntusdown00000001) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081116/73f2d735/attachment.html From robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com Sun Nov 16 21:48:03 2008 From: robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com (Robin Hamilton) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:40 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Aphorisms In-Reply-To: <8CB166752B9354B-860-10DC@WEBMAIL-DC17.sysops.aol.com> References: <731bb17a0811160717q7f07a16dpfe7e1cf91375643a@mail.gmail.com><3B1CDBEF-C870-4129-87B3-AD949E5DDAC9@earthlink.net><492073BC.6040109@opus40.org><74B4C488FBA84E5BBC3C840D172B75EC@RobinPC><648208b60811161450n1c14fabmcd7649498fb3d2de@mail.gmail.com><56952E88E8A343708E49EC1D05B99F89@RobinPC> <76317C478F824485A9D91C536D764B0A@RobinPC> <8CB166752B9354B-860-10DC@WEBMAIL-DC17.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: << Missed this term... Obiter Dicta >> Yeah, but ... Seems to me two things are at issue here -- aphorisms in general, and aphorisms in poetry. Shakespeare puts it rather neatly, through the mouth of Phoebe, in AYLI, where he has her quote Kit Marlowe: So now dead shepherd do I find thy words of might, "Whoever loved, who loved not at first sight." There you have An Aphorism -- "Whoever loved ..." -- used in a narrative poem (Hero and Lander), then recycled in a play. ... through the mouth of a singularly dumb female character who is in unknowingly love with another female, except they are both manifested by boy actors. {Jeezus wept, this is Deeply Involuted.} Suggests among other things that the problem with aphorisms in poetry is that they are *already a bit over the top -- the brandy of the damned, if there was ever a trope that deserved to be tagged with that phrase. I mean, where are you *most likely to find aphorisms in verse? Halmark cards, but ... Roses are red, brandy is blue, My dog's a poodle And so are you. Robin [Then, still sticking to Bill the Bard: Who pours out an entire cascade of aphoristic cliches? Who but Polonious, with his neither a borrower nor a lender be. So I mean, like, the heavy-handed use of the aphoristic trope was a standing joke as early as 1601. More difficult to *avoid aphorisms in poetry than to deploy them, but. :-( R.] -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081117/bd9b0591/attachment.html From alexdickow9 at yahoo.com Mon Nov 17 01:13:00 2008 From: alexdickow9 at yahoo.com (Alexander Dickow) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:41 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] paglia, yuck (and other stuff) In-Reply-To: <200811161700.mAGH05nK018895@wiz.cath.vt.edu> Message-ID: <490214.96453.qm@web35505.mail.mud.yahoo.com> John, Let me put it this way: it's not what Paglia says about other poets that bothers me, but what Paglia says about Paglia that I find thoroughly repulsive and idiotic. But I'll pipe down on the matter now, and just enjoy all the lovely proverb poems: thanks, folks! I hope everyone's aware (just in case) of the medieval origins of the genre, there are some delightful examples way back there in the 14th century or so. Amicalement, Alex From jbalizsprince at googlemail.com Mon Nov 17 07:17:12 2008 From: jbalizsprince at googlemail.com (Judy Prince) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:41 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Camlle Paglia explains how she saved poetry In-Reply-To: <49206245.9010408@nut-n-but.net> References: <491A4891.7070206@opus40.org> <8CB1591D8002B7A-14D0-A6A@WEBMAIL-MY26.sysops.aol.com> <491F649A.6040702@nut-n-but.net> <848790.1750.qm@web54109.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <49206245.9010408@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <7db1d01b0811170417q77cf40f0heeda3e2f35b68246@mail.gmail.com> Dear Crybaby: Re your teaching: my sympathies. After 32 years of it, if I hadn't just plain gotten ancient and therefore retirement-ready, I'd prolly have flamed out in some classically insane and very public way. oy. Re your art: If you've got 'It'----and you do----'it' will always work on its own to be expressed, to be manifested. And it doesn't need the priciest of equipment and materials, as you already know. Go and do art----but show some little people how to do art, as well----savvy? You're a teacher, so teach! And do it for free, tragically financially strapped and classroom-imprisoned as you are! Judy 2008/11/16 Bob Grumman > What really irks me about Paglia is (and I'm being a crybaby here) that I > can't make the kind of poems I want to because I have to throw away my days > substitute teaching (and recovering at home from the ordeal) to get by and > can't buy a computer and printer capable of doing the things I want to do, > and this poetry ignoramus gets a book of her opinions on poems commercially > published, and it apparently makes money. Okay, it's the way of the world, > and I plod on, anyway, doing the best I can. Still, I got a right to be > irked. > > --Bob G. > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081117/1f844edc/attachment.html From atelierjewelweed at gmail.com Mon Nov 17 08:29:59 2008 From: atelierjewelweed at gmail.com (Suzanne Burns) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:41 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Lewis Hyde profile in NYT Mag In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: That book is hands down one of the best books I've read. It has a deep impact on me back when I began grad work in poetry. I read it to the point where my copy fell apart and had to be kept together with twine, and almost lost if forever when I loaned it to Jack Gilbert (I remember picking it up from his bookshelf and saying with some irony "This wasn't a gift.") Nice article. :-) Suzanne On Sun, Nov 16, 2008 at 9:48 PM, wrote: > http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/16/magazine/16hyde-t.html > > The source of much of this reverence is Hyde's first book, "The Gift" > (1983), which has never been out of print (it was recently rereleased by > Vintage in a 25th-anniversary edition) and which tries to reconcile the > value of doing creative work with the exigencies of a market economy. > > > > ------------------------------ > Get the Moviefone Toolbar. > Showtimes, theaters, movie news & more! > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081117/bc75b356/attachment.html From robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com Mon Nov 17 09:00:23 2008 From: robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com (Robin Hamilton) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:41 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Aphorisms In-Reply-To: References: <731bb17a0811160717q7f07a16dpfe7e1cf91375643a@mail.gmail.com><3B1CDBEF-C870-4129-87B3-AD949E5DDAC9@earthlink.net><492073BC.6040109@opus40.org><74B4C488FBA84E5BBC3C840D172B75EC@RobinPC><648208b60811161450n1c14fabmcd7649498fb3d2de@mail.gmail.com><56952E88E8A343708E49EC1D05B99F89@RobinPC><76317C478F824485A9D91C536D764B0A@RobinPC><8CB166752B9354B-860-10DC@WEBMAIL-DC17.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: << There you have An Aphorism -- "Whoever loved ..." -- used in a narrative poem (Hero and Lander), then recycled in a play. >> Mind you, as Pip Sidney was *already deconstructing this particular Aphorism in the second sonnet of _Astrophil and Stella_ in 1588: Astrophil and Stella: 2 by Sir Philip Sidney Not at first sight, nor with a dribb?d shot, Love gave the wound, which, while I breathe will bleed; But known worth did in mine of time proceed, Till by degrees it had full conquest got. ... by the time Phoebe gets into the act in AYLI in 1598, there's a hell of a lot of previous around this. Robin -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081117/c59e1d1f/attachment.html From alexdickow9 at yahoo.com Mon Nov 17 09:58:55 2008 From: alexdickow9 at yahoo.com (Alexander Dickow) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:41 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] francothegms In-Reply-To: <200811171053.mAHArHnK008817@wiz.cath.vt.edu> Message-ID: <747433.10271.qm@web35502.mail.mud.yahoo.com> My three favorite writers of apothegms/maxims/etc are also probably the most bizarre of all. Like, really, really weird. Max Jacob, Lautreamont (in the Poesies, transformations of the mediocre moralist Vauvenargues), and finally Malcolm de Chazal. Here are a few nice Chazal pieces (I don't think he's been translated, alas): The rose is the sun's baby teeth. Weight only feels strong when it lies in the balance. The water says to the wave: "You drink me." - "How could I?" Some of them are unrivalled in imagination and eccentricity. The French in general have a lovely maxim tradition that Jim didn't mention (focusing instead on Germany, which I believe he knows quite well, although he did mention Joubert). La Rochefoucauld and Pascal are amazing. Amicalement, Alex From GRAHAMD at RIPON.EDU Mon Nov 17 10:20:33 2008 From: GRAHAMD at RIPON.EDU (David Graham) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:41 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Paglia's Broken Blow Message-ID: It can be difficult to admire Camille Paglia, because she's so busy admiring herself. Nevertheless, *Break, Blow, Burn* is well worth a look, and so is her essay on the selection process she went through in writing it. Here's the link again if you've lost it: http://www.bu.edu/arion/Paglia16-2.html Paglia likes to make sweeping provocative declarations, and I think she's frequently full of crap. Her taste strikes me as just as limited as, say, Helen Vendler's. But unlike many critics, she's also willing to do the heavy-lifting of close reading. *Break, Blow, Burn* is a book to savor, argue with, bounce off of. I also like it that she's willing to name names and take potshots at what she feels are inflated reputations and silly academic orthodoxies. Her backstage essay on reading for her book is fascinating. I mean, she reports being unable to find a *single* good short poem by Pound, Auden, Moore, Creeley, Levertov, Jarrell, Rukeyser, Duncan, Berryman, Ashbery, Rich, Kinnell, or Bishop! That's rather breathtaking. Nor was she able to locate a single good poem on sports, which strikes me as ludicrous, given the work of, say, Robert Francis, May Swenson, and William Matthews. Her close readings of poems that *almost* made the cut are most intriguing. I was a bit puzzled by many pronouncements and decisions. For instance, she bypassed Frank O'Hara's "Lana Turner Has Collapsed" for a lesser-known piece, "A Mexican Guitar," which I did not immediately recall. When I checked out that poem I just scratched my head. It's a very interesting O'Hara poem, but for a general reader? It would be most baffling, especially as compared to the Lana Turner poem. Paglia typically gives no real reason for her preference, and is sketchy on what constitutes a good poem for general readership, beyond noting that Yeats's "Second Coming" was her model: "a masterpiece of sinewy modern English." Ultimately, Paglia seems best at nuts-and-bolts examinations of single poems, and least convincing when she starts to generalize. She also reminds me frequently of Robert Frost's remark about never venturing forth unless mounted firmly on your prejudices. . . . ======================================== David Graham grahamd@ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.mac.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081117/8b14535b/attachment.html From jbalizsprince at googlemail.com Mon Nov 17 10:21:05 2008 From: jbalizsprince at googlemail.com (Judy Prince) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:41 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] francothegms In-Reply-To: <747433.10271.qm@web35502.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <200811171053.mAHArHnK008817@wiz.cath.vt.edu> <747433.10271.qm@web35502.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <7db1d01b0811170721qd7db6b8j503c46aefac9d972@mail.gmail.com> Alex, I'm quite enjoying this, and these off-balance French guys. For those of us who've not moved past uni French language classes, and who'd starve to death in a French-spoken-only restaurant, we need baby-stepping when it comes to translating even relatively simple texts of French philosophers, poets, and playwrights. And, reasonably, I think, we're wary of just 'anybody's' translation, but we're not in a position to judge their work. A quick example. P'raps you can suggest a solution. I'm trying to translate comedy, for goodness' sake! Got a lovely old Benjamin W. Wells' edited, 1905 [DC Heath Modern Language Series] edition of Labiche and Martin's LE VOYAGE DE MONSIEUR PERRICHON play. Even with the wonderful in-English NOTES section, an extensive VOCABULARY [French-English] and English 'study questions'---I'm tearing out handfuls of hair in frustration. Humour, of course, is THE most difficult to translate successfully since it usually depends upon idioms, the least translatably easy area in any language. Hence, I'm thinking that a couple translators' versions, in addition to my own efforts, would be best. I understand that that is what most [at least USAmerican and some UK] poets do with their translations. Since the trickiest trick is finding profoundly gifted and pragmatic translators---and as you've noted---so many works are still untranslated......what's a body to do? Thanks, Judy 2008/11/17 Alexander Dickow > My three favorite writers of apothegms/maxims/etc are also probably the > most bizarre of all. Like, really, really weird. Max Jacob, Lautreamont (in > the Poesies, transformations of the mediocre moralist Vauvenargues), and > finally Malcolm de Chazal. Here are a few nice Chazal pieces (I don't think > he's been translated, alas): > > The rose is the sun's baby teeth. > > Weight only feels strong when it lies in the balance. > > The water says to the wave: "You drink me." - "How could I?" > > Some of them are unrivalled in imagination and eccentricity. > The French in general have a lovely maxim tradition that Jim didn't mention > (focusing instead on Germany, which I believe he knows quite well, although > he did mention Joubert). La Rochefoucauld and Pascal are amazing. > Amicalement, > Alex > > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081117/bbdb96b8/attachment.html From jforjames at aol.com Mon Nov 17 11:26:11 2008 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames@aol.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:41 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] francothegms In-Reply-To: <747433.10271.qm@web35502.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <8CB16E8564C6D20-9DC-7BB@webmail-db20.sysops.aol.com> Another term to toss into the mix... Gnome (Greek: gnome, from gignoskein, to know). A type of saying, especially an aphorism or a maxim, that is designed to provide instruction in a compact form. Often poems are described as gnomic. Another German to name is Georg Christoph Lichtenberg, whose aphorisms were collected as "Wastebooks", taking the name from?a mechant's daily accounting logs they used to record transactions, as a scratch pad for? calculations, for notes?on orders or deliveries, etc.? Thanks for the French side of things, Alex...first I've heard of Chazal. Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: Alexander Dickow To: new-poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Mon, 17 Nov 2008 9:58 am Subject: [New-Poetry] francothegms My three favorite writers of apothegms/maxims/etc are also probably the most bizarre of all. Like, really, really weird. Max Jacob, Lautreamont (in the Poesies, transformations of the mediocre moralist Vauvenargues), and finally Malcolm de Chazal. Here are a few nice Chazal pieces (I don't think he's been translated, alas): The rose is the sun's baby teeth. Weight only feels strong when it lies in the balance. The water says to the wave: "You drink me." - "How could I?" Some of them are unrivalled in imagination and eccentricity. The French in general have a lovely maxim tradition that Jim didn't mention (focusing instead on Germany, which I believe he knows quite well, although he did mention Joubert). La Rochefoucauld and Pascal are amazing. Amicalement, Alex _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081117/197da43e/attachment.html From jforjames at aol.com Mon Nov 17 11:27:36 2008 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames@aol.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:41 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Aphorisms In-Reply-To: References: <731bb17a0811160717q7f07a16dpfe7e1cf91375643a@mail.gmail.com><3B1CDBEF-C870-4129-87B3-AD949E5DDAC9@earthlink.net><492073BC.6040109@opus40.org><74B4C488FBA84E5BBC3C840D172B75EC@RobinPC><648208b60811161450n1c14fabmcd7649498fb3d2de@mail.gmail.com><56952E88E8A343708E49EC1D05B99F89@RobinPC><76317C478F824485A9D91C536D764B0A@RobinPC><8CB166752B9354B-860-10DC@WEBMAIL-DC17.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <8CB16E8890226D8-9DC-7D2@webmail-db20.sysops.aol.com> What is an Epigram? A dwarfish whole; Its body brevity, and wit its soul. ? Samuel Taylor Coleridge ----- -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081117/8242edd7/attachment.html From jfq at myuw.net Mon Nov 17 11:29:53 2008 From: jfq at myuw.net (jfq@myuw.net) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:41 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Paglia's Broken Blow In-Reply-To: Message-ID: paglia is too enamored of the metamythologies of joseph campbell and rolande barthes and it is a deep flaw in an otherwise astoundingly observant critical flaw. to this day i remain convinced that her best piece of work is the audio commentary for the Basic Instinct special edition DVD, where her weird obsessions with Jungian archetypes and elemental imagery actually dovetail quite well with the actual visual pallette of the film. I would hazard a guess that it's the lack of this sort of thing in the rejected poets (allusions to archetypes, elements, and so forth) that was missing in a lot of the contemporary poets she dismissed. On Mon, 17 Nov 2008, David Graham wrote: > It can be difficult to admire Camille Paglia, because she's so busy admiring > herself. Nevertheless, *Break, Blow, Burn* is well worth a look, and so is her > essay on the selection process she went through in writing it. Here's the link > again if you've lost it: > > http://www.bu.edu/arion/Paglia16-2.html > > Paglia likes to make sweeping provocative declarations, and I think she's > frequently full of crap. Her taste strikes me as just as limited as, say, > Helen Vendler's. But unlike many critics, she's also willing to do the > heavy-lifting of close reading. *Break, Blow, Burn* is a book to savor, argue > with, bounce off of. I also like it that she's willing to name names and take > potshots at what she feels are inflated reputations and silly academic > orthodoxies. > > Her backstage essay on reading for her book is fascinating. I mean, she > reports being unable to find a *single* good short poem by Pound, Auden, Moore, > Creeley, Levertov, Jarrell, Rukeyser, Duncan, Berryman, Ashbery, Rich, Kinnell, > or Bishop! That's rather breathtaking. Nor was she able to locate a single > good poem on sports, which strikes me as ludicrous, given the work of, say, > Robert Francis, May Swenson, and William Matthews. > > Her close readings of poems that *almost* made the cut are most intriguing. I > was a bit puzzled by many pronouncements and decisions. For instance, she > bypassed Frank O'Hara's "Lana Turner Has Collapsed" for a lesser-known piece, > "A Mexican Guitar," which I did not immediately recall. When I checked out that > poem I just scratched my head. It's a very interesting O'Hara poem, but for a > general reader? It would be most baffling, especially as compared to the Lana > Turner poem. Paglia typically gives no real reason for her preference, and is > sketchy on what constitutes a good poem for general readership, beyond noting > that Yeats's "Second Coming" was her model: "a masterpiece of sinewy modern > English." > > Ultimately, Paglia seems best at nuts-and-bolts examinations of single poems, > and least convincing when she starts to generalize. She also reminds me > frequently of Robert Frost's remark about never venturing forth unless mounted > firmly on your prejudices. . . . > > > ======================================== > David Graham > grahamd@ripon.edu > > Home Page: > http://web.mac.com/drjazz > > Poetry Library: > http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html > ========================================== > > > > > From jbalizsprince at googlemail.com Mon Nov 17 11:31:41 2008 From: jbalizsprince at googlemail.com (Judy Prince) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:41 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Paglia's Broken Blow In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7db1d01b0811170831q7a414649i28ce8a5f10a149b6@mail.gmail.com> That last sentence sounds more like a Twain than a Frost, but who's quibbling?! Now you make me Very Eager to read Paglia's book that's due from amazon.comany day now! Indeed, as you and I and others on this list have noted, her wise critiques of 'nearly-includeds' fit logically and reasonably with um logic and reason. However, why, David, do you think she got weird with her Actual Includes [the poems in the book itself]? You say that she 'generalizes'.....and that she doesn't give reasons for not including some works. My question to you: Why not? That is, why was she so good at critiquing the poems she chose NOT to include, but near-include [as given in the article]----yet bad at saying why she did not include some of the Ole Faves OR including some poems that strike many readers as worse than the ones she dumped or others by the same poet? Can't say she's lazy; can't say she can't critique convincingly....so what did she do or not do which made her depart somehow from her article's practical, logical points? Judy 2008/11/17 David Graham > It can be difficult to admire Camille Paglia, because she's so busy > admiring herself. Nevertheless, *Break, Blow, Burn* is well worth a look, > and so is her essay on the selection process she went through in writing it. > Here's the link again if you've lost it: > * > * > *http://www.bu.edu/arion/Paglia16-2.html* > > Paglia likes to make sweeping provocative declarations, and I think she's > frequently full of crap. Her taste strikes me as just as limited as, say, > Helen Vendler's. But unlike many critics, she's also willing to do the > heavy-lifting of close reading. *Break, Blow, Burn* is a book to savor, > argue with, bounce off of. I also like it that she's willing to name names > and take potshots at what she feels are inflated reputations and silly > academic orthodoxies. > > Her backstage essay on reading for her book is fascinating. I mean, she > reports being unable to find a *single* good short poem by Pound, Auden, > Moore, Creeley, Levertov, Jarrell, Rukeyser, Duncan, Berryman, Ashbery, > Rich, Kinnell, or Bishop! That's rather breathtaking. Nor was she able to > locate a single good poem on sports, which strikes me as ludicrous, given > the work of, say, Robert Francis, May Swenson, and William Matthews. > > Her close readings of poems that *almost* made the cut are most intriguing. > I was a bit puzzled by many pronouncements and decisions. For instance, > she bypassed Frank O'Hara's "Lana Turner Has Collapsed" for a lesser-known > piece, "A Mexican Guitar," which I did not immediately recall. When I > checked out that poem I just scratched my head. It's a very interesting > O'Hara poem, but for a general reader? It would be most baffling, > especially as compared to the Lana Turner poem. Paglia typically gives no > real reason for her preference, and is sketchy on what constitutes a good > poem for general readership, beyond noting that Yeats's "Second Coming" was > her model: "a masterpiece of sinewy modern English." > > Ultimately, Paglia seems best at nuts-and-bolts examinations of single > poems, and least convincing when she starts to generalize. She also reminds > me frequently of Robert Frost's remark about never venturing forth unless > mounted firmly on your prejudices. . . . > > > ======================================== > David Graham > grahamd@ripon.edu > > Home Page: > http://web.mac.com/drjazz > > Poetry Library: > http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html > ========================================== > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081117/73d4e0ec/attachment.html From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Mon Nov 17 11:56:19 2008 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:41 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Camlle Paglia explains how she saved poetry In-Reply-To: <7db1d01b0811170417q77cf40f0heeda3e2f35b68246@mail.gmail.com> References: <491A4891.7070206@opus40.org><8CB1591D8002B7A-14D0-A6A@WEBMAIL-MY26.sysops.aol.com><491F649A.6040702@nut-n-but.net><8 48790.1750.qm@web54109.mail.re2.yahoo.com><49206245.9010408@nut-n-but.net> <7db1d01b0811170417q77cf40f0heeda3e2f35b68246@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4921A233.70903@nut-n-but.net> Judy Prince wrote: > Dear Crybaby: > > Re your teaching: my sympathies. After 32 years of it, if I hadn't > just plain gotten ancient and therefore retirement-ready, I'd prolly > have flamed out in some classically insane and very public way. oy. Actually, I enjoy it much of the time--just wish I could get by without having to do it as much as I do, and could pick&choose which classes to take. > > Re your art: If you've got 'It'----and you do----'it' will always > work on its own to be expressed, to be manifested. To a degree. And I am aware that I may well be using my need to work and lack of money as excuses for not getting nearly as much done as I feel I should. I also do believe that if everything went my way, it might be bad for me. But I really do feel blocked when I have an idea I need a few weeks or more to go all out on, and can't--and there have been times in my life when I did have a few weeks at a time when I had such an idea, and I did manage to go all out on it. > And it doesn't need the priciest of equipment and materials, as you > already know. I'm afraid some of mine do. So, yeah, I do the ones that don't, some of them at least as important to me. > Go and do art----but show some little people how to do art, as > well----savvy? You're a teacher, so teach! And do it for free, > tragically financially strapped and classroom-imprisoned as you are! Thanks for the supportiveness, Judy. I'm afraid teaching little peoples isn't practical here, for me. I doubt if any would be interested, and I have no place to teach, and limited transportation (I use a bike or my legs for almost all local transportation). I tried to get the school system interested in letting me be a poet in the schools but got (almost) nowhere. (I managed to get an English teacher friend to let me do a presentation for her high school AP classes once.) I'm not a salesman, even for my free wares! --Bob From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Mon Nov 17 13:02:55 2008 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:41 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Paglia's Broken Blow In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4921B1CF.6030109@nut-n-but.net> I still haven't read the Paglia essay all the way through. I find her very wordy. Since her taste in poems isn't mine, that makes it difficult for me to get through her responses to individual poems. My impression so far, though, is that, as a reader of poems, she fits one of my definitions of a Philistine very closely: a person whose opinion of a poem depends entirely on how close it comes to making an observation--in clear, reasonably uncliched language--the Philistine agrees with. --Bob G. From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Mon Nov 17 13:56:28 2008 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:42 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Camlle Paglia explains how she saved poetry In-Reply-To: <4920A333.7020604@nut-n-but.net> References: <491A4891.7070206@opus40.org> <8CB1591D8002B7A-14D0-A6A@WEBMAIL-MY26.sysops.aol.com> <491F649A.6040702@nut-n-but.net> <49206245.9010408@nut-n-but.net> <492062D2.5030906@opus40.org> <4920846F.70205@nut-n-but.net> <4b65c2d70811161419r40aec87cyc4879b1dc80b36d7@mail.gmail.com> <4920A333.7020604@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <4b65c2d70811171056p762f22b1v981ada1b9e55955@mail.gmail.com> I read the entire essay now. I think that you (all of you, not only Bob) are taking it too personally. She tried to put together a mass anthology, something that could work for people who never read poetry. It is true that she thunders, and says that in the past 40 years there isn't one decent poem, but that is part of the delirium of people when they think they are assembling something that goes beyond their own strengths. It was a good read, even if excessively long, and there were some good poems to be tasted. She did do some homework... On Sun, Nov 16, 2008 at 11:48 PM, Bob Grumman wrote: > Anny Ballardini wrote: > >> Don't worry Bob, we can help you to sell out. >> > Hey, maybe YOU can, Anny--Paglia's an Eye-talyan, too! Do you know her?! > > --Bobbino Grummanni > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081117/4378ad5a/attachment.html From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Mon Nov 17 14:05:07 2008 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:42 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Aphorisms In-Reply-To: <4920AAA7.8000703@opus40.org> References: <731bb17a0811160717q7f07a16dpfe7e1cf91375643a@mail.gmail.com> <3B1CDBEF-C870-4129-87B3-AD949E5DDAC9@earthlink.net> <492073BC.6040109@opus40.org> <4b65c2d70811161334t5fc4b8f7rba567e8caf3ba046@mail.gmail.com> <4920AAA7.8000703@opus40.org> Message-ID: <4b65c2d70811171105k2c542effp8a9bd78b632cf33b@mail.gmail.com> You are not the first person to tell me. It is under the main index: Autumn: http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=Content direct link: http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=Content&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=318 It is a beautiful Anthology. I would like to thank again all those who contributed. And get ready with your Winter poems, I am heading towards Vivaldi's 4 Seasons! On Mon, Nov 17, 2008 at 12:20 AM, TheOldMole wrote: > Anny -- is there a way you could make the Autumn anthology easier to find? > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081117/536ecb7e/attachment.html From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Mon Nov 17 14:08:57 2008 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:42 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Paglia's Broken Blow In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4b65c2d70811171108i1849576fjb607e34d8704ea8e@mail.gmail.com> This is so well said! Bombastic pleasure, yes, I agree. On Mon, Nov 17, 2008 at 4:20 PM, David Graham wrote: > It can be difficult to admire Camille Paglia, because she's so busy > admiring herself. Nevertheless, *Break, Blow, Burn* is well worth a look, > and so is her essay on the selection process she went through in writing it. > Here's the link again if you've lost it: > * > * > *http://www.bu.edu/arion/Paglia16-2.html* > > Paglia likes to make sweeping provocative declarations, and I think she's > frequently full of crap. Her taste strikes me as just as limited as, say, > Helen Vendler's. But unlike many critics, she's also willing to do the > heavy-lifting of close reading. *Break, Blow, Burn* is a book to savor, > argue with, bounce off of. I also like it that she's willing to name names > and take potshots at what she feels are inflated reputations and silly > academic orthodoxies. > > Her backstage essay on reading for her book is fascinating. I mean, she > reports being unable to find a *single* good short poem by Pound, Auden, > Moore, Creeley, Levertov, Jarrell, Rukeyser, Duncan, Berryman, Ashbery, > Rich, Kinnell, or Bishop! That's rather breathtaking. Nor was she able to > locate a single good poem on sports, which strikes me as ludicrous, given > the work of, say, Robert Francis, May Swenson, and William Matthews. > > Her close readings of poems that *almost* made the cut are most intriguing. > I was a bit puzzled by many pronouncements and decisions. For instance, > she bypassed Frank O'Hara's "Lana Turner Has Collapsed" for a lesser-known > piece, "A Mexican Guitar," which I did not immediately recall. When I > checked out that poem I just scratched my head. It's a very interesting > O'Hara poem, but for a general reader? It would be most baffling, > especially as compared to the Lana Turner poem. Paglia typically gives no > real reason for her preference, and is sketchy on what constitutes a good > poem for general readership, beyond noting that Yeats's "Second Coming" was > her model: "a masterpiece of sinewy modern English." > > Ultimately, Paglia seems best at nuts-and-bolts examinations of single > poems, and least convincing when she starts to generalize. She also reminds > me frequently of Robert Frost's remark about never venturing forth unless > mounted firmly on your prejudices. . . . > > > ======================================== > David Graham > grahamd@ripon.edu > > Home Page: > http://web.mac.com/drjazz > > Poetry Library: > http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html > ========================================== > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081117/b2bbd624/attachment.html From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Mon Nov 17 14:15:43 2008 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:42 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Paglia's Broken Blow In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4b65c2d70811171115l6d14225cy4982ae1425102ffd@mail.gmail.com> Probably, I also noticed her tendency to dig up archetypes and swim in them voraciously. I also noticed her (coda di paglia, this is a good one) "tail of straw" (paglia = straw) [an Italian saying to show someone has touched you in your weak spots, a tail of straw can easily catch fire] when she feels she is going blindly beyond a commonly accepted border and venturing into a soliloquy, be if for ignorance - be it for convenience, she opens a bracket and explains_ what we do not know, but she thinks she has thus satisfied the general public. On Mon, Nov 17, 2008 at 5:29 PM, wrote: > > paglia is too enamored of the metamythologies of joseph campbell and > rolande barthes and it is a deep flaw in an otherwise astoundingly observant > critical flaw. to this day i remain convinced that her best piece of work is > the audio commentary for the Basic Instinct special edition DVD, where her > weird obsessions with Jungian archetypes and elemental imagery actually > dovetail quite well with the actual visual pallette of the film. > > I would hazard a guess that it's the lack of this sort of thing in the > rejected poets (allusions to archetypes, elements, and so forth) that was > missing in a lot of the contemporary poets she dismissed. > > > On Mon, 17 Nov 2008, David Graham wrote: > > It can be difficult to admire Camille Paglia, because she's so busy >> admiring herself. Nevertheless, *Break, Blow, Burn* is well worth a look, >> and so is her essay on the selection process she went through in writing it. >> Here's the link again if you've lost it: >> >> http://www.bu.edu/arion/Paglia16-2.html >> >> Paglia likes to make sweeping provocative declarations, and I think she's >> frequently full of crap. Her taste strikes me as just as limited as, say, >> Helen Vendler's. But unlike many critics, she's also willing to do the >> heavy-lifting of close reading. *Break, Blow, Burn* is a book to savor, >> argue with, bounce off of. I also like it that she's willing to name names >> and take potshots at what she feels are inflated reputations and silly >> academic orthodoxies. >> >> Her backstage essay on reading for her book is fascinating. I mean, she >> reports being unable to find a *single* good short poem by Pound, Auden, >> Moore, Creeley, Levertov, Jarrell, Rukeyser, Duncan, Berryman, Ashbery, >> Rich, Kinnell, or Bishop! That's rather breathtaking. Nor was she able to >> locate a single good poem on sports, which strikes me as ludicrous, given >> the work of, say, Robert Francis, May Swenson, and William Matthews. >> >> Her close readings of poems that *almost* made the cut are most >> intriguing. I was a bit puzzled by many pronouncements and decisions. For >> instance, she bypassed Frank O'Hara's "Lana Turner Has Collapsed" for a >> lesser-known piece, "A Mexican Guitar," which I did not immediately recall. >> When I checked out that poem I just scratched my head. It's a very >> interesting O'Hara poem, but for a general reader? It would be most >> baffling, especially as compared to the Lana Turner poem. Paglia typically >> gives no real reason for her preference, and is sketchy on what constitutes >> a good poem for general readership, beyond noting that Yeats's "Second >> Coming" was her model: "a masterpiece of sinewy modern English." >> >> Ultimately, Paglia seems best at nuts-and-bolts examinations of single >> poems, and least convincing when she starts to generalize. She also reminds >> me frequently of Robert Frost's remark about never venturing forth unless >> mounted firmly on your prejudices. . . . >> >> >> ======================================== >> David Graham >> grahamd@ripon.edu >> >> Home Page: >> http://web.mac.com/drjazz >> >> Poetry Library: >> http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html >> ========================================== >> >> >> >> >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081117/bb037d9e/attachment.html From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Mon Nov 17 15:30:11 2008 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:42 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Camlle Paglia explains how she saved poetry In-Reply-To: <4b65c2d70811171056p762f22b1v981ada1b9e55955@mail.gmail.com> References: <491A4891.7070206@opus40.org><8CB1591D8002B7A-14D0-A6A@WEBMAIL-MY26.sysops.aol.com><491F649A.6040702@nut-n-but.net> <49206245.9010408@nut-n-but.net><492062D2.5030906@opus40.org> <4920846F.70205@nut-n-but.net><4b65c2d70811161419r40aec87cyc4879b1dc80b36d7@mail.gmail.com><4920A333.7020604@nut-n-but.net> <4b65c2d70811171056p762f22b1v981ada1b9e55955@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4921D453.3070500@nut-n-but.net> Anny Ballardini wrote: > I read the entire essay now. I think that you (all of you, not only > Bob) are taking it too personally. She tried to put together a mass > anthology, something that could work for people who never read poetry. Yeah, but why was it she who tried to put together this anthology instead of someone less well-paid and "prominent" who happened to know something about poetry? Let her write to preface if they need a name. I don't take her seriously, except the way I take anything I write about seriously while I'm writing. I don't really take what happened personally except inasmuch as I, personally a poet, feel poetry has taken a beating yet again. --Bob From halvard at earthlink.net Mon Nov 17 15:40:11 2008 From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:42 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Camlle Paglia explains how she saved poetry In-Reply-To: <4921D453.3070500@nut-n-but.net> References: <491A4891.7070206@opus40.org><8CB1591D8002B7A-14D0-A6A@WEBMAIL-MY26.sysops.aol.com><491F649A.6040702@nut-n-but.net> <49206245.9010408@nut-n-but.net><492062D2.5030906@opus40.org> <4920846F.70205@nut-n-but.net><4b65c2d70811161419r40aec87cyc4879b1dc80b36d7@mail.gmail.com><4920A333.7020604@nut-n-but.net> <4b65c2d70811171056p762f22b1v981ada1b9e55955@mail.gmail.com> <4921D453.3070500@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <949F879F-36A2-4718-B767-3ADDB94372EB@earthlink.net> Poetry has broad shoulders. Poetry can take it. Hal "On the blessed wave of fire I write your name." --Paul ?luard Halvard Johnson ================ halvard@earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html On Nov 17, 2008, at 2:30 PM, Bob Grumman wrote: > I don't take her seriously, except the way I take anything I write > about seriously while I'm writing. I don't really take what > happened personally except inasmuch as I, personally a poet, feel > poetry has taken a beating yet again. > > --Bob From Opus40-01 at opus40.org Mon Nov 17 16:42:54 2008 From: Opus40-01 at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:42 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Camlle Paglia explains how she saved poetry In-Reply-To: <949F879F-36A2-4718-B767-3ADDB94372EB@earthlink.net> References: <491A4891.7070206@opus40.org><8CB1591D8002B7A-14D0-A6A@WEBMAIL-MY26.sysops.aol.com><491F649A.6040702@nut-n-but.net> <49206245.9010408@nut-n-but.net><492062D2.5030906@opus40.org> <4920846F.70205@nut-n-but.net><4b65c2d70811161419r40aec87cyc4879b1dc80b36d7@mail.gmail.com><4920A333.7020604@nut-n-but.net> <4b65c2d70811171056p762f22b1v981ada1b9e55955@mail.gmail.com> <4921D453.3070500@nut-n-but.net> <949F879F-36A2-4718-B767-3ADDB94372EB@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <4921E55E.2090103@opus40.org> And broad hips. Halvard Johnson wrote: > Poetry has broad shoulders. Poetry can > take it. > > Hal > > "On the blessed wave of fire > I write your name." > --Paul ?luard > > Halvard Johnson > ================ > halvard@earthlink.net > http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > http://www.hamiltonstone.org > http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html > > > > On Nov 17, 2008, at 2:30 PM, Bob Grumman wrote: > >> I don't take her seriously, except the way I take anything I write >> about seriously while I'm writing. I don't really take what happened >> personally except inasmuch as I, personally a poet, feel poetry has >> taken a beating yet again. >> >> --Bob > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ Don't forget to order your copy of FILM NOIR! http://stores.lulu.com/store.php?fAcctID=2712239 From jforjames at aol.com Mon Nov 17 18:29:36 2008 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames@aol.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:42 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Zbigniew Herbert's brainy contrarianism Message-ID: <8CB17237CF5AA70-128-100@WEBMAIL-MY06.sysops.aol.com> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/arts/main.jhtml?xml=/arts/2008/11/17/bozbigniew117.xml Herbert's poetry has what TS Eliot called "the unpleasantness of great poetry". Or the cussedness. Existentially, temperamentally, poetically, he is a contrarian - someone unsuited to the Swedish Academy in Stockholm. The poetry, its attitudes, are designed to disconcert us. When he strikes an anti-attitude, its tonic purpose is to pain us and himself. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081117/5c589b40/attachment.html From jforjames at aol.com Mon Nov 17 18:33:05 2008 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames@aol.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:42 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Carol Muske-Dukes new Cali Laureate Message-ID: <8CB1723F9914148-128-14A@WEBMAIL-MY06.sysops.aol.com> http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/jacketcopy/2008/11/carol-muske-duk.html -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081117/5d107bcf/attachment.html From jforjames at aol.com Mon Nov 17 20:46:30 2008 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames@aol.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:42 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] This is art... Message-ID: <8CB17369CE9EB34-8F8-14F4@webmail-me20.sysops.aol.com> http://www.thenation.com/doc/20081201/schwabsky In recent decades the philosophy of art has been much preoccupied with the enigma of why a given object does or doesn't count as a work of art. Since the challenge of Duchamp's Fountain and other readymades, according to the Belgian writer Thierry de Duve, the form of aesthetic judgment has undergone a shift: from "this is beautiful" to, simply, "this is art." For the philosopher, art status is like a light switch, either on or off. But the everyday art world is nothing like that, -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081117/1e249e27/attachment.html From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Tue Nov 18 03:17:22 2008 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:42 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Keillor's choice Message-ID: <4b65c2d70811180017m3426c86em8db26ebcd79ae410@mail.gmail.com> 3 by John Berryman Sole watchman of the flying stars, guard me against my flicker of impulse lust: teach me to see them as sisters & daughters. Sustain my grand endeavours: husbandship & crafting. Forsake me not when my wild hours come; grant me sleep nightly, grace soften my dreams; achieve in me patience till the thing be done, a careful view of my achievement come. Make me from time to time the gift of the shoulder. When all hurt nerves whine shut away the whiskey. Empty my heart toward Thee. Let me pace without fear the common path of death. Cross am I sometimes with my little daughter: fill her eyes with tears. Forgive me, Lord. Unite my various soul, sole watchman of the wide & single stars. *from "Eleven Addresses to the Lord"* "3" by John Berryman from *Collected Poems 1937-1971*. (c) The Noonday Press, 1989. Reprinted with permission. (buy now) -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081118/bef81b15/attachment.html From alexdickow9 at yahoo.com Tue Nov 18 07:18:25 2008 From: alexdickow9 at yahoo.com (Alexander Dickow) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:42 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] translations and more chazal In-Reply-To: <200811171700.mAHH06nK017669@wiz.cath.vt.edu> Message-ID: <807716.47300.qm@web35504.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Thanks, Judy and Jim. I've dug up some more Chazal for the two of you. As for translations, it's certainly tough. I can't help you with that one, but good translations -- and even masterworks, usually unrecognized -- do exist, even for humorous works (a good example is Aristophanes' French translator, who is apparently unrivalled in his ability to transpose jokes convincingly. Another is Pierre Joris' translations of Celan's later works, available from Green Integer Press, which has a marvelous catalogue). On of Moliere's translators into English is quite accomplished - can't remember which one. For contemporary literature in translation and new releases, take a look at the following sites: Open Letter (Rochester) Cipher (Lucas Klein) Calque (Steve Dolph) Words Without Borders If you're curious about Things Gallic, I like to recommend a recent translation of Tristan Corbiere called _Wry-blue Loves_, available lots of places. So here are some more Chazal pieces: The laughter of intelligence is an efflorescence of the lips. The laughter of idiocy is a rictus of the teeth. All cretins laugh from the chin. The eyelids are the legs of the gaze. Adorned with mobile eyelids while still on the plant, the flower's eye stays wide open when in the vase, like the eyes of the dead. Laughter is the sneeze of the imagination. That last one is one of my favorites. Enjoy! Amicalement, Alex From rewatlingjr at comcast.net Tue Nov 18 12:33:49 2008 From: rewatlingjr at comcast.net (robert e. watling jr.) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:42 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] translations and more chazal In-Reply-To: <807716.47300.qm@web35504.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <807716.47300.qm@web35504.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 18 Nov 2008 04:18:25 -0800, Alexander Dickow wrote: > Laughter is the sneeze of the imagination. > That last one is one of my favorites. Enjoy! Don't know much about this subject. I have had my hands full reading English writing poets. I recently bought City Lights Pocket Poets #9, Paroles by Prevert, translated by Ferlinghetti. It's the bilingual edition from 1990. Any one have an opinion on this one? An early favorite: Alicante An orange on the table Your dress on the rug And you in my bed Sweet present of the present Cool of night Warmth of my life. Alicante by Jacques Prevert Copyright City Lights Books 1949 Translation 1958 by Lawrence Ferlinghetti Reprinted here without permission but hopefully without offense. Rob. -- "Cogito ergo...how does that go again?"...rewjr. From jforjames at aol.com Tue Nov 18 12:45:38 2008 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames@aol.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:42 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Aphorisms In-Reply-To: <4b65c2d70811171105k2c542effp8a9bd78b632cf33b@mail.gmail.com> References: <731bb17a0811160717q7f07a16dpfe7e1cf91375643a@mail.gmail.com><3B1CDBEF-C870-4129-87B3-AD949E5DDAC9@earthlink.net><492073BC.6040109@opus40.org><4b65c2d70811161334t5fc4b8f7rba567e8caf3ba046@mail.gmail.com><4920AAA7.8000703@opus40.org> <4b65c2d70811171105k2c542effp8a9bd78b632cf33b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <8CB17BC9A1BDD7F-C44-E16@webmail-me11.sysops.aol.com> Another contemporary poet &?aphorist is Nick Piombino... his blog and book by the same name: http://nickpiombino.blogspot.com/ http://www.spdbooks.org/Details.asp?BookID=9781600010521 -- Finnegan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081118/8ccca664/attachment.html From rewatlingjr at comcast.net Tue Nov 18 13:02:30 2008 From: rewatlingjr at comcast.net (robert e. watling jr.) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:42 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] re: privious post Message-ID: "Any one have an opinion on this one?" In my last post I asked this question. I was asking about the book Paroles by Jacques Prevert translated by Lawrence Ferlinghetti and not about the poem I appended, though I'd welcome comment on that too. I just happened to pick up this book right before the discussion on translations started and I don't have a lot of experience with translations. thanks...rob. -- "Cogito ergo...how does that go again?"...rewjr. From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Tue Nov 18 13:10:58 2008 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:43 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Aphorisms In-Reply-To: <8CB17BC9A1BDD7F-C44-E16@webmail-me11.sysops.aol.com> References: <731bb17a0811160717q7f07a16dpfe7e1cf91375643a@mail.gmail.com> <3B1CDBEF-C870-4129-87B3-AD949E5DDAC9@earthlink.net> <492073BC.6040109@opus40.org> <4b65c2d70811161334t5fc4b8f7rba567e8caf3ba046@mail.gmail.com> <4920AAA7.8000703@opus40.org> <4b65c2d70811171105k2c542effp8a9bd78b632cf33b@mail.gmail.com> <8CB17BC9A1BDD7F-C44-E16@webmail-me11.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <4b65c2d70811181010g6a17b519jdd8af595ebeef76e@mail.gmail.com> Yes, Nick Piombino is another exceptional writer. On Tue, Nov 18, 2008 at 6:45 PM, wrote: > Another contemporary poet & aphorist is Nick Piombino... > his blog and book by the same name: > > http://nickpiombino.blogspot.com/ > > http://www.spdbooks.org/Details.asp?BookID=9781600010521 > > > -- > Finnegan > > > > > ------------------------------ > Instant access to the latest & most popular FREE games while you browse > with the Games Toolbar - Download Now! > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081118/1c64f670/attachment.html From jforjames at aol.com Tue Nov 18 13:14:36 2008 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames@aol.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:43 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] translations and more chazal In-Reply-To: References: <807716.47300.qm@web35504.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <8CB17C0A5350EB7-C44-103E@webmail-me11.sysops.aol.com> Rob, 'Alicante' is terse and tart until that last line, which has?the ring of Hallmark. As we veer from aphorisms toward short poems and epigrams, I recall the very good Robt. Bly anthology, The Sea & The Honeycomb. And then there's Howard Nemerov's Gnomes & Occasions, a book chockful of epigrams. Many very witty. Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: robert e. watling jr. To: alexdickow9@yahoo.com; NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views Sent: Tue, 18 Nov 2008 12:33 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] translations and more chazal On Tue, 18 Nov 2008 04:18:25 -0800, Alexander Dickow wrote:? ? > Laughter is the sneeze of the imagination.? > That last one is one of my favorites. Enjoy!? ? Don't know much about this subject. I have had my hands full reading English writing poets. I recently bought City Lights Pocket Poets #9, Paroles by Prevert, translated by Ferlinghetti. It's the bilingual edition from 1990. Any one have an opinion on this one?? ? An early favorite:? ? Alicante? ? An orange on the table? Your dress on the rug? And you in my bed? Sweet present of the present? Cool of night? Warmth of my life.? ? Alicante by Jacques Prevert? Copyright City Lights Books 1949? Translation 1958 by Lawrence Ferlinghetti? ? Reprinted here without permission but hopefully without offense.? ? Rob.? ? --"Cogito ergo...how does that go again?"...rewjr.? _______________________________________________? New-Poetry mailing list? New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu? http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081118/81a27774/attachment.html From rewatlingjr at comcast.net Tue Nov 18 13:27:27 2008 From: rewatlingjr at comcast.net (robert e. watling jr.) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:43 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] translations and more chazal In-Reply-To: <8CB17C0A5350EB7-C44-103E@webmail-me11.sysops.aol.com> References: <807716.47300.qm@web35504.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <8CB17C0A5350EB7-C44-103E@webmail-me11.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 18 Nov 2008 10:14:36 -0800, wrote: > Rob, 'Alicante' is terse and tart until that last line, which has the > ring of Hallmark. > > As we veer from aphorisms toward short poems and epigrams, I recall the > very good > Robt. Bly anthology, The Sea & The Honeycomb. And then there's > Howard Nemerov's Gnomes & Occasions, a book chockful of epigrams. Many > very witty. > Finnegan Thanks. I just finished the 1999 Best American Poetry edited by Robert Bly. I don't know what anyone else thinks about this series but I like the introductory essay by Bly and then his choices and arrangement. I'd previously read this years anthology edited by Heather McHugh. Since I'd read some Bly in the past I thought I'd read his next and really liked it. Now I'm reading Rita Dove's volume from 2000 and then I'll read Creeley's. I come from Dove's home town, Akron, Ohio and reading her work reminds me of home. I didn't live in her neighborhoods but having been a cab driver for some years I know those streets and can almost see the houses she describes...thanks...rob. -- "Cogito ergo...how does that go again?"...rewjr. From robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com Tue Nov 18 14:05:23 2008 From: robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com (Robin Hamilton) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:43 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] re: privious post In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4C1933BE0E26412480EEB58DAAE9E6FE@RobinPC> > "Any one have an opinion on this one?" > > In my last post I asked this question. I was asking about the book Paroles > by Jacques Prevert translated by Lawrence Ferlinghetti and not about the > poem I appended, though I'd welcome comment on that too. I just happened > to pick up this book right before the discussion on translations started > and I don't have a lot of experience with translations. thanks...rob I always thought Ferlinghetti was the best of the three Beats, him and Corso and Ginsberg. Then just now I tried to retrieve a text of "Leading a Quiet Life At Mac's Place" (homage to Auden's 'September 1939') and apparently it's not on the Web. Deeply odd, that. Ferlinghetti's translation of Prevert was/is a bit like Chapman's Homer (or Christopher Logue's) -- kinda says it all. But all deeply sixties stuff, really. Cisatlantic, in the wild days of Penguin Modern Poets, Ferlinghetti was alternatively-canonised in a volume with Ginsberg and Corso. Mind you, at that very same time, Penguin Modern Poets also managed to link D.M.Black, Peter Redgrove, and D.M.Thomas in the one volume. Whoever put those together was more than slightly off the wall. Those were the glory days. Robin From robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com Tue Nov 18 14:28:56 2008 From: robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com (Robin Hamilton) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:43 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] re: privious post In-Reply-To: <4C1933BE0E26412480EEB58DAAE9E6FE@RobinPC> References: <4C1933BE0E26412480EEB58DAAE9E6FE@RobinPC> Message-ID: <396D7DF5EA7642F5A6645330B8319C2E@RobinPC> > D.M.Black, Peter Redgrove, and D.M.Thomas in the one volume. Even in the sixties, Thomas (D.M..) was kinda -- I was about to say, a plagaristic joke, who ripped-off sf narratives ... But I'd better not say that. Linking David Black and Peter Redgrove in the same book in the late sixties made a weird kind of sense, except I'd bet neither knew the other's work. Whoever was the commissioning editor for the first run of Penguin Modern Poets was sad, mad, and dangerous to know, and they sure got shot of him pretty damn fast. The Ferlinghetti/Corso/Ginsberg lock was only one of the Wild Ones. Whoever it was, he (I think it was a he) didn't last long -- If my thought dreams could be seen They'd put my head in a guillotine ... ... it lasted for maybe five years, till the Suits sussed out that something odd was happening. As I say, the glory days ... Robin From robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com Tue Nov 18 14:34:26 2008 From: robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com (Robin Hamilton) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:43 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] re: privious post In-Reply-To: <396D7DF5EA7642F5A6645330B8319C2E@RobinPC> References: <4C1933BE0E26412480EEB58DAAE9E6FE@RobinPC> <396D7DF5EA7642F5A6645330B8319C2E@RobinPC> Message-ID: > Whoever it was, he (I think it was a he) didn't last long -- Oh, the relevance of this, is that the same dude who was running PMP also published Ferlinghetti's translations of Prevert in the sixties, under the Penguin imprint. Makes you seriously to wonder that, but ... R. From blacksox at att.net Tue Nov 18 17:57:12 2008 From: blacksox at att.net (blacksox@att.net) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:43 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] New-Poetry] Re: Camlle Paglia explains how she saved Message-ID: <111820082257.26086.492348480005C849000065E622243429029B0A02D29B9B0EBF98019C050C0E040D@att.net> Her essay clears some questions I had about her selection process, for the forty-three of the world?s best poems that ?Break, Blow, Burn? is said to contain. There is no reason to pick apart any publication that makes anybody read more poetry, or any poetry at all for that matter. The fact that she made a poetry book into a national bestseller is to her credit. Just because a piece of art is obscure or undiscovered does not make it a better piece of art. Because a book of poetry turns up on the bestseller list, is no reason to despise it. I read most of her essays in the book with a great deal of cynicism. It?s all a matter of taste. Peace Russ Golata -------------- next part -------------- Skipped content of type multipart/related From amyhappens at yahoo.com Tue Nov 18 19:04:24 2008 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:43 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] While the He/art Pants: (Poetic Responses to the 2008 American Elections) Message-ID: <786019.69459.qm@web83305.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> I'm happy to say that my poem appears here: http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=2693? Several other New Poetry Members' work appears: Otherwise, THE LIST IS GROWING @ The Poet?s Corner http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=Content&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=322? ? ? Edward Mycue ? Jared Schickling ? Bill Morgan ? John M. Bennett ? Conrad Reeder ? Tom McBride ? Gerald Schwartz ? Farideh Hassanzadeh-Mostafavi ? Russ Golata ? Evelyn Posamentier ? Gina Sangster Hayman ? Matt Johnson ? Susan Bright ? Daniel Zimmerman ? Fan Ogilvie ? Henry Gould ? Carol Novack ? Joseph Duemer ? Peter Ciccariello ? Spencer Selby ? Eugen Galasso ? Grace Cavalieri ? Amy King - STATE OF A NATION ? Halvard Johnson ? Raymond Bianchi ? ?Submit to Anny Ballardini and Obododimma Oha @ The Poet?s Cornerhttp://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=2664 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ And thanks to Elizabeth Kate Switaj for her recent review of my poem, "Men By the Lips of Women" here: http://blog.elizabethkateswitaj.net/?p=538 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Enjoy! Amy _______ Recent work http://www.writing.upenn.edu/pennsound/x/King.html Amy's Alias http://amyking.org/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081118/533c8c90/attachment.html From amyhappens at yahoo.com Tue Nov 18 19:09:06 2008 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:43 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] =?iso-8859-1?q?=A1Goodreads_Monthly_Newsletter_Poem?= =?iso-8859-1?q?_Contest!?= Message-ID: <766686.44737.qm@web83303.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> * DO YOU WANT YOUR WORDS TO MEET 1.6 MILLION PEOPLE? * The Goodreads? editors have invited us to participate in the selection of each poem that will appear in the Goodreads? Monthly Newsletter. 1. Post your best poem (one poem per person) in this folder. 2. I will select five poems each month to be voted on by the Goodreads community. 3. The poem with the most votes will be published in the Goodreads? newsletter ? distributed each month to 1.6 million people! Good luck & please post your best work! Thanks, Amy King Moderator, Poetry @ Goodreads http://www.goodreads.com/group/show/233._POETRY_ _______ Recent work http://www.writing.upenn.edu/pennsound/x/King.html Amy's Alias http://amyking.org/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081118/b0e60712/attachment.html From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Tue Nov 18 22:14:22 2008 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:43 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] New-Poetry] Re: Camlle Paglia explains how she saved In-Reply-To: <111820082257.26086.492348480005C849000065E622243429029B0A02D29B9B0EBF98019C050C0E040D@att.net> References: <111820082257.26086.492348480005C849000065E622243429029B0A02D29B9B0EBF98019C050C0E040D@att.net> Message-ID: <4923848E.1040403@nut-n-but.net> > Because a book of poetry turns up on the bestseller list, is no reason > to despise it. > I was going to let your post go in peace, Russ, but the above statement gave me pause. At first, I thought, of course, no reason a poetry best-seller ought to be lousy. Second thought: has there been a poetry best seller in the last fifty years in this country that wasn't either loaded with the masterpieces of yesterday or absolute crap? But I don't despise this one, I despise its publishers. As I've said, repeating my boilerplate forever. We have enough "good poems." Let us have an anthology of kinds of poems never before in an anthology printed in editions of more than a thousand--edited by someone who knows something about poetry.. --Bob From Opus40-01 at opus40.org Tue Nov 18 22:50:22 2008 From: Opus40-01 at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:43 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] RIP Donald Finkel Message-ID: <49238CFE.4050606@opus40.org> Donald Finkel, my beloved friend and mentor, died today in St. Louis. Donald Finkel, a celebrated poet at Washington University whose topics > included his relationship with his cats and dogs, River Des Peres and his > trip to the South Pole, died Saturday (Nov. 15, 2008) from complications of > Alzheimer's disease at Schuetz Manor assisted-living home in Creve Coeur. > > He was 79 and a longtime resident of University City before moving to > Lafayette Square. > > Mr. Finkel was poet-in-residence at Washington U., where he taught from > 1960 until 1991. He wrote 14 books of poetry, with long narrative and > frequently humorous free verse. Admirers described it as a new form, a > fusion of text and poetry. > > His writing won prestigious awards. But his friends remember him best for > his generous help to students, his enduring love for his late wife and > writing partner, Constance Urdang, and his zeal for exploring everything > around him. > > "He was a bearded skeleton, a belt-buckled force of nature," said David > Clewell, a poet and professor at Webster University. He came to St. Louis > to study under Mr. Finkel and stayed to become his longtime friend. > > "He dug into life as long as he could, with a zest that really was > unparalleled," Clewell said. > > The Finkel family lived for years on Columbia Place in University City, a > block from River Des Peres. While most residents paid little attention to > what is normally little more than a drainage ditch, Mr. Finkel was > fascinated. > > He wanted to know where the river came from, where it went and its history. > He and his dog walked its entire length. He wrote a poem, a slim volume > that he called "Beyond Despair," a play on the river's name. > > In 1968, Mr. Finkel signed on with a scientific expedition to Antarctica > sponsored by the National Science Foundation. It was a government program > to send artists to Antarctica, and Mr. Finkel knew the man in charge. > > "He loved the idea that he would be the first poet to go there," said > Howard Schwartz, a former student and now professor of English at the > University of Missouri-St. Louis. > > A group of Russians was there at the same time, and Mr. Finkel became > friends with them. They traded shots of vodka, and Mr. Finkel traded parkas > with one of them. Mr. Finkel wore it back to the United States, not knowing > that his new coat said "AWOL" ? absent without leave ? in Russian. > > "My dad had that parka for years," recalled a daughter, Amy Finkel of St. > Louis. > > Mr. Finkel wrote a book-length poem about his experience, "Adequate Earth." > It was later set to music and performed at Powell Symphony Hall. > > Mr. Finkel was born in New York, a few blocks from Yankee Stadium, in 1929, > the year of the Wall Street crash. > > He completed high school at a boarding school in Connecticut, from which he > once ran away with a classmate, Elliott Adnopoz, later famous as the folk > singer Ramblin' Jack Elliott. > > He taught at the University of Iowa Writers' Workshop, where he met his > future wife. They married in 1956, embarking on a yearlong Mexican > honeymoon and finally moving to St. Louis. > > In 1977, Washington University started a graduate writing program with Ms. > Urdang as the coordinator, novelist Stanley Elkin teaching fiction and Mr. > Finkel running the poetry workshop. > > His work examined the relationships between humans and animals ("What > Manner of Beast") and between contemporary life and mythology ("Simeon"), > the urge to explore ("Adequate Earth") and, especially, the anxieties and > joys of ordinary life. > > He was fascinated with the Chinese poets who wrote about democracy during > the Cultural Revolution and got in trouble with the Communist government. > Mr. Finkel and poet Carolyn Kizer translated a collection of the poetry, "A > Splintered Mirror." > > Mr. Finkel was nominated for the National Book Award and the National Book > Critics Circle Award. > > His wife died of lung cancer in 1996. The two had been a team, editing and > reading each other's work. "She held him together," said their son, Tom > Finkel, editor of the Riverfront Times and a resident of Webster Groves. > > When he grew unable to write, Mr. Finkel returned to an earlier passion: > sculpting. He constructed hundreds of works from plastic bottles, odds and > ends, anything he could find around his apartment. > > "His creative impulse never died," Schwartz said. > > Washington University plans a memorial service at a time and date to be > set. For information, call the English department at 314-935-5190. > > In addition to Tom and Amy Finkel, among the survivors are another > daughter, Liza Finkel of Portland, Ore.; a half brother, David Finkel of > New York; and two grandchildren. -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ Don't forget to order your copy of FILM NOIR! http://stores.lulu.com/store.php?fAcctID=2712239 From grahamd at ripon.edu Tue Nov 18 23:06:12 2008 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:43 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Camlle Paglia In-Reply-To: <4923848E.1040403@nut-n-but.net> References: <111820082257.26086.492348480005C849000065E622243429029B0A02D29B9B0EBF98019C050C0E040D@att.net> <4923848E.1040403@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <9A323822-D323-4C38-AD62-F21B001E29FC@ripon.edu> I don't despise Camille Paglia either, though I disagree with her often enough, and find her style sometimes offputting. *Break, Blow, Burn*, the bestselling book of poetry criticism in question, is a worthy book. Considering it, I'm struck by several things. First, when was the last time a book of serious poetry criticism was a best seller? I can think of a few recent ones that seemed fairly popular, though I don't know how their sales might compare to Paglia's: books by Edward Hirsch, Molly Peacock, Robert Hass (collection of his *Washington Post* columns), and not many others. So that's one thing worth pondering, and celebrating. Second, a glance at Paglia's table of contents would, in fact, support Bob Grumman's objections. For the most part, despite Paglia's strident puffery and posturing in support of her project, she's picked little but safely canonized classics to analyze, beginning with Shakespeare's sonnet #73, and progressing through such cutting edge figures as Donne, Herbert, Marvell, Blake, Wordsworth Shelley, Coleridge, Whitman, Dickinson, Yeats, Stevens, Williams, Roethke, Lowell, Plath, et al. The only oddities come in the very recent picks, who include four relative unknowns (Chuck Wachtel, Norman H. Russell, Rochelle Kraut, and Ralph Pomeroy) plus Wanda Coleman and Joni Mitchell. Otherwise it's pretty much Nortonized classics all the way. I don't think it's *bad* to have yet another book dissecting Shakespeare's sonnets and Williams's overexposed "Red Wheelbarrow," but it's hardly earth-shaking stuff. For my money, Paglia's taste is ever more uncertain as she moves into the contemporary world, too. That's no doubt true of most of us, of course. She's pretty damn good on Shakespeare, Whitman, and so forth, but I don't find her as convincing on Wanda Coleman, for instance. And Joni Mitchell, whose "Woodstock" lyrics close out the book, seems an odd choice. Not that Mitchell isn't a great songwriter, but why this song? Why not a thousand others? Why no song written in the past 40 years, for that matter, if you're going to make a gesture at being hip and write a book of poetry criticism specifically aimed at general audiences? Poor Paglia reminds me in this regard of the minister of the church I attended as a kid in the 1960s, who tried to reach out and be "relevant" to younger people in his congregation by quoting Simon & Garfunkle lyrics in his sermons. Kids who were, of course, listening to Jimi Hendrix, Bob Dylan, and The Doors at the time. As far as I can tell, all but 6 of the 43 poets in the book are dead; and even most of the recent poems are at least 30 years old. It's possible to take Paglia at her word, and believe that she read intensively of work published in the past few decades and found almost nothing worth analyzing; it's also possible to doubt how hard she looked at anything that wasn't already published when she was in grad school. Among other things, I would have appreciated a fuller discussion of why she didn't just focus on Shakespeare et al.; or, failing that, if she was determined to make some token gestures toward the contemporary world, what factors went into her choices. Has she read Yusef Komunyakaa and found him wanting? If so, why? No masterpieces by Richard Wilbur, Philip Levine, Seamus Heaney, Elizabeth Bishop? Is Wanda Coleman really better than Hayden Carruth, Charles Simic, Lucille Clifton, Albert Goldbarth, Robert Duncan, James Wright, Robert Hass, Philip Larkin, Adrienne Rich. . . ? Still, such a book does no harm, and gives snipers like us a good target. And I for one am pleased to see a prominent critic going back to good old new-critical close reading. Despite Paglia's posturing, that probably *is* a somewhat radical move these days. This might be a good book to assign in college classes, in fact: it has the moves. ======================================== David Graham grahamd@ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.mac.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== On Nov 18, 2008, at 9:14 PM, Bob Grumman wrote: > >> Because a book of poetry turns up on the bestseller list, is no >> reason to despise it. > I was going to let your post go in peace, Russ, but the above > statement gave me pause. At first, I thought, of course, no reason > a poetry best-seller ought to be lousy. Second thought: has there > been a poetry best seller in the last fifty years in this country > that wasn't either loaded with the masterpieces of yesterday or > absolute crap? But I don't despise this one, I despise its > publishers. As I've said, repeating my boilerplate forever. We > have enough "good poems." Let us have an anthology of kinds of > poems never before in an anthology printed in editions of more than > a thousand--edited by someone who knows something about poetry.. > > --Bob > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081118/85a3028d/attachment.html From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Wed Nov 19 00:44:55 2008 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:43 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] While the He/art Pants: (Poetic Responses to the 2008 American Elections) In-Reply-To: <786019.69459.qm@web83305.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: <786019.69459.qm@web83305.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4b65c2d70811182144p575cfbc3s84635b1c6eba42f4@mail.gmail.com> What a lovely Soul you are Amy! Thank you for your exceptional work, Anny On Wed, Nov 19, 2008 at 1:04 AM, amy king wrote: > I'm happy to say that my poem appears here: > http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=2693 > > Several other New Poetry Members' work appears: > > > Otherwise, THE LIST IS GROWING @ The Poet's Corner > > > http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=Content&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=322 > > > > > > > ? Edward Mycue > > ? Jared Schickling > > ? Bill Morgan > > ? John M. Bennett > > ? Conrad Reeder > > ? Tom McBride > > ? Gerald Schwartz > > ? Farideh Hassanzadeh-Mostafavi > > ? Russ Golata > > ? Evelyn Posamentier > > ? Gina Sangster Hayman > > ? Matt Johnson > > ? Susan Bright > > ? Daniel Zimmerman > > ? Fan Ogilvie > > ? Henry Gould > > ? Carol Novack > > ? Joseph Duemer > > ? Peter Ciccariello > > ? Spencer Selby > > ? Eugen Galasso > > ? Grace Cavalieri > > ? Amy King - STATE OF A NATION > > ? Halvard Johnson > > ? Raymond Bianchi > > > > ?Submit to Anny Ballardini and Obododimma Oha @ The Poet's Corner > > http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=2664 > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > And thanks to Elizabeth Kate Switaj for her recent review of my poem, "Men > By the Lips of Women" here: > http://blog.elizabethkateswitaj.net/?p=538 > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > > Enjoy! > > Amy > > _______ > > > Recent work > http://www.writing.upenn.edu/pennsound/x/King.html > > Amy's Alias > http://amyking.org/ > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081119/0e0a7080/attachment.html From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Wed Nov 19 06:29:24 2008 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:44 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Camlle Paglia In-Reply-To: <9A323822-D323-4C38-AD62-F21B001E29FC@ripon.edu> References: <111820082257.26086.492348480005C849000065E622243429029B0A02D29B9B0EBF98019C050C0E040D@att.net><4923848E.1040403@nut- n-but.net> <9A323822-D323-4C38-AD62-F21B001E29FC@ripon.edu> Message-ID: <4923F894.5090702@nut-n-but.net> Kind of annoying to find just about nothing to argue with in a David Graham post, a /long/ David Graham post. I /did/ find /one/ minor point to attack him on, though: he says, "It's possible to take Paglia at her word, and believe that she read intensively of work published in the past few decades and found almost nothing worth analyzing . . ." I say it's not. If she had, she would have /had/ to have at least mentioned why she had dismissed not just the many superior poets she did but the many /kinds /of poetry she did. A second argument I have that she didn't do much of a survey of poetry to find poems for her book is not so convincing: it is that in choosing just about nothing but standards, and railing against modern taste in some area of art, she reveals herself as a probable rigidnik, and no rigidnik, by (my) definition, would be broadminded enough to have carried out a genuine survey of the field. Nice that she picked something by Roethke, one of my favoritest favorites. David, did she pick anything by Cummings? If so, was it one of his visual poems. I hope not! It would make it harder for me to write her off. --Bob David Graham wrote: > I don't despise Camille Paglia either, though I disagree with her > often enough, and find her style sometimes offputting. *Break, Blow, > Burn*, the bestselling book of poetry criticism in question, is a > worthy book. Considering it, I'm struck by several things. First, > when was the last time a book of serious poetry criticism was a best > seller? I can think of a few recent ones that seemed fairly popular, > though I don't know how their sales might compare to Paglia's: books > by Edward Hirsch, Molly Peacock, Robert Hass (collection of his > *Washington Post* columns), and not many others. So that's one thing > worth pondering, and celebrating. > > Second, a glance at Paglia's table of contents would, in fact, support > Bob Grumman's objections. For the most part, despite Paglia's > strident puffery and posturing in support of her project, she's picked > little but safely canonized classics to analyze, beginning with > Shakespeare's sonnet #73, and progressing through such cutting edge > figures as Donne, Herbert, Marvell, Blake, Wordsworth Shelley, > Coleridge, Whitman, Dickinson, Yeats, Stevens, Williams, Roethke, > Lowell, Plath, et al. > > The only oddities come in the very recent picks, who include four > relative unknowns (Chuck Wachtel, Norman H. Russell, Rochelle Kraut, > and Ralph Pomeroy) plus Wanda Coleman and Joni Mitchell. Otherwise > it's pretty much Nortonized classics all the way. > > I don't think it's *bad* to have yet another book dissecting > Shakespeare's sonnets and Williams's overexposed "Red Wheelbarrow," > but it's hardly earth-shaking stuff. > > For my money, Paglia's taste is ever more uncertain as she moves into > the contemporary world, too. That's no doubt true of most of us, of > course. She's pretty damn good on Shakespeare, Whitman, and so forth, > but I don't find her as convincing on Wanda Coleman, for instance. > > And Joni Mitchell, whose "Woodstock" lyrics close out the book, seems > an odd choice. Not that Mitchell isn't a great songwriter, but why > this song? Why not a thousand others? Why no song written in the > past 40 years, for that matter, if you're going to make a gesture at > being hip and write a book of poetry criticism specifically aimed at > general audiences? Poor Paglia reminds me in this regard of the > minister of the church I attended as a kid in the 1960s, who tried to > reach out and be "relevant" to younger people in his congregation by > quoting Simon & Garfunkle lyrics in his sermons. Kids who were, of > course, listening to Jimi Hendrix, Bob Dylan, and The Doors at the time. > > As far as I can tell, all but 6 of the 43 poets in the book are dead; > and even most of the recent poems are at least 30 years old. It's > possible to take Paglia at her word, and believe that she read > intensively of work published in the past few decades and found almost > nothing worth analyzing; it's also possible to doubt how hard she > looked at anything that wasn't already published when she was in grad > school. > > Among other things, I would have appreciated a fuller discussion of > why she didn't just focus on Shakespeare et al.; or, failing that, if > she was determined to make some token gestures toward the contemporary > world, what factors went into her choices. Has she read Yusef > Komunyakaa and found him wanting? If so, why? No masterpieces by > Richard Wilbur, Philip Levine, Seamus Heaney, Elizabeth Bishop? Is > Wanda Coleman really better than Hayden Carruth, Charles Simic, > Lucille Clifton, Albert Goldbarth, Robert Duncan, James Wright, Robert > Hass, Philip Larkin, Adrienne Rich. . . ? > > Still, such a book does no harm, and gives snipers like us a good > target. And I for one am pleased to see a prominent critic going back > to good old new-critical close reading. Despite Paglia's posturing, > that probably *is* a somewhat radical move these days. This might be > a good book to assign in college classes, in fact: it has the moves. > > > > ======================================== > David Graham > grahamd@ripon.edu > > Home Page: > http://web.mac.com/drjazz > > Poetry Library: > http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html > ========================================== > > > > > On Nov 18, 2008, at 9:14 PM, Bob Grumman wrote: > >> >>> Because a book of poetry turns up on the bestseller list, is no >>> reason to despise it. >> I was going to let your post go in peace, Russ, but the above >> statement gave me pause. At first, I thought, of course, no reason a >> poetry best-seller ought to be lousy. Second thought: has there been >> a poetry best seller in the last fifty years in this country that >> wasn't either loaded with the masterpieces of yesterday or absolute >> crap? But I don't despise this one, I despise its publishers. As >> I've said, repeating my boilerplate forever. We have enough "good >> poems." Let us have an anthology of kinds of poems never before in >> an anthology printed in editions of more than a thousand--edited by >> someone who knows something about poetry.. >> >> --Bob >> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081119/f9e72184/attachment.html From jbalizsprince at googlemail.com Wed Nov 19 06:58:38 2008 From: jbalizsprince at googlemail.com (Judy Prince) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:44 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] RIP Donald Finkel In-Reply-To: <49238CFE.4050606@opus40.org> References: <49238CFE.4050606@opus40.org> Message-ID: <7db1d01b0811190358w61a7098ao247c196f308bf91e@mail.gmail.com> Mole, who wrote this essay celebrating Donald Finkel's life? It's thoroly wonderful, as, clearly, was the man himself. Thanks for this. Judy 2008/11/18 TheOldMole > Donald Finkel, my beloved friend and mentor, died today in St. Louis. > > Donald Finkel, a celebrated poet at Washington University whose topics > >> included his relationship with his cats and dogs, River Des Peres and his >> trip to the South Pole, died Saturday (Nov. 15, 2008) from complications >> of >> Alzheimer's disease at Schuetz Manor assisted-living home in Creve Coeur. >> >> He was 79 and a longtime resident of University City before moving to >> Lafayette Square. >> >> Mr. Finkel was poet-in-residence at Washington U., where he taught from >> 1960 until 1991. He wrote 14 books of poetry, with long narrative and >> frequently humorous free verse. Admirers described it as a new form, a >> fusion of text and poetry. >> >> His writing won prestigious awards. But his friends remember him best for >> his generous help to students, his enduring love for his late wife and >> writing partner, Constance Urdang, and his zeal for exploring everything >> around him. >> >> "He was a bearded skeleton, a belt-buckled force of nature," said David >> Clewell, a poet and professor at Webster University. He came to St. Louis >> to study under Mr. Finkel and stayed to become his longtime friend. >> >> "He dug into life as long as he could, with a zest that really was >> unparalleled," Clewell said. >> >> The Finkel family lived for years on Columbia Place in University City, a >> block from River Des Peres. While most residents paid little attention to >> what is normally little more than a drainage ditch, Mr. Finkel was >> fascinated. >> >> He wanted to know where the river came from, where it went and its >> history. >> He and his dog walked its entire length. He wrote a poem, a slim volume >> that he called "Beyond Despair," a play on the river's name. >> >> In 1968, Mr. Finkel signed on with a scientific expedition to Antarctica >> sponsored by the National Science Foundation. It was a government program >> to send artists to Antarctica, and Mr. Finkel knew the man in charge. >> >> "He loved the idea that he would be the first poet to go there," said >> Howard Schwartz, a former student and now professor of English at the >> University of Missouri-St. Louis. >> >> A group of Russians was there at the same time, and Mr. Finkel became >> friends with them. They traded shots of vodka, and Mr. Finkel traded >> parkas >> with one of them. Mr. Finkel wore it back to the United States, not >> knowing >> that his new coat said "AWOL" ? absent without leave ? in Russian. >> >> "My dad had that parka for years," recalled a daughter, Amy Finkel of St. >> Louis. >> >> Mr. Finkel wrote a book-length poem about his experience, "Adequate >> Earth." >> It was later set to music and performed at Powell Symphony Hall. >> >> Mr. Finkel was born in New York, a few blocks from Yankee Stadium, in >> 1929, >> the year of the Wall Street crash. >> >> He completed high school at a boarding school in Connecticut, from which >> he >> once ran away with a classmate, Elliott Adnopoz, later famous as the folk >> singer Ramblin' Jack Elliott. >> >> He taught at the University of Iowa Writers' Workshop, where he met his >> future wife. They married in 1956, embarking on a yearlong Mexican >> honeymoon and finally moving to St. Louis. >> >> In 1977, Washington University started a graduate writing program with Ms. >> Urdang as the coordinator, novelist Stanley Elkin teaching fiction and Mr. >> Finkel running the poetry workshop. >> >> His work examined the relationships between humans and animals ("What >> Manner of Beast") and between contemporary life and mythology ("Simeon"), >> the urge to explore ("Adequate Earth") and, especially, the anxieties and >> joys of ordinary life. >> >> He was fascinated with the Chinese poets who wrote about democracy during >> the Cultural Revolution and got in trouble with the Communist government. >> Mr. Finkel and poet Carolyn Kizer translated a collection of the poetry, >> "A >> Splintered Mirror." >> >> Mr. Finkel was nominated for the National Book Award and the National Book >> Critics Circle Award. >> >> His wife died of lung cancer in 1996. The two had been a team, editing and >> reading each other's work. "She held him together," said their son, Tom >> Finkel, editor of the Riverfront Times and a resident of Webster Groves. >> >> When he grew unable to write, Mr. Finkel returned to an earlier passion: >> sculpting. He constructed hundreds of works from plastic bottles, odds and >> ends, anything he could find around his apartment. >> >> "His creative impulse never died," Schwartz said. >> >> Washington University plans a memorial service at a time and date to be >> set. For information, call the English department at 314-935-5190. >> >> In addition to Tom and Amy Finkel, among the survivors are another >> daughter, Liza Finkel of Portland, Ore.; a half brother, David Finkel of >> New York; and two grandchildren. >> > > > -- > Tad Richards > http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ > http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ > > Don't forget to order your copy of FILM NOIR! > http://stores.lulu.com/store.php?fAcctID=2712239 > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081119/b4ff9d3a/attachment.html From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Wed Nov 19 07:52:43 2008 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:44 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Camlle Paglia In-Reply-To: <4923F894.5090702@nut-n-but.net> References: <111820082257.26086.492348480005C849000065E622243429029B0A02D29B9B0EBF98019C050C0E040D@att.net> <9A323822-D323-4C38-AD62-F21B001E29FC@ripon.edu> <4923F894.5090702@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <4b65c2d70811190452p935b96dv9cdaecee497237c9@mail.gmail.com> I loved this: "Still, such a book does no harm, and gives snipers like us a good target." On Wed, Nov 19, 2008 at 12:29 PM, Bob Grumman wrote: > Kind of annoying to find just about nothing to argue with in a David > Graham post, a *long* David Graham post. I *did* find *one* minor point > to attack him on, though: he says, "It's possible to take Paglia at her > word, and believe that she read intensively of work published in the past > few decades and found almost nothing worth analyzing . . ." I say it's > not. If she had, she would have *had* to have at least mentioned why she > had dismissed not just the many superior poets she did but the many *kinds > *of poetry she did. > > A second argument I have that she didn't do much of a survey of poetry to > find poems for her book is not so convincing: it is that in choosing just > about nothing but standards, and railing against modern taste in some area > of art, she reveals herself as a probable rigidnik, and no rigidnik, by (my) > definition, would be broadminded enough to have carried out a genuine survey > of the field. > > Nice that she picked something by Roethke, one of my favoritest favorites. > David, did she pick anything by Cummings? If so, was it one of his visual > poems. I hope not! It would make it harder for me to write her off. > > --Bob > > > > David Graham wrote: > > I don't despise Camille Paglia either, though I disagree with her often > enough, and find her style sometimes offputting. *Break, Blow, Burn*, the > bestselling book of poetry criticism in question, is a worthy book. > Considering it, I'm struck by several things. First, when was the last > time a book of serious poetry criticism was a best seller? I can think of a > few recent ones that seemed fairly popular, though I don't know how their > sales might compare to Paglia's: books by Edward Hirsch, Molly Peacock, > Robert Hass (collection of his *Washington Post* columns), and not many > others. So that's one thing worth pondering, and celebrating. > Second, a glance at Paglia's table of contents would, in fact, support > Bob Grumman's objections. For the most part, despite Paglia's strident > puffery and posturing in support of her project, she's picked little but > safely canonized classics to analyze, beginning with Shakespeare's sonnet > #73, and progressing through such cutting edge figures as Donne, Herbert, > Marvell, Blake, Wordsworth Shelley, Coleridge, Whitman, Dickinson, Yeats, > Stevens, Williams, Roethke, Lowell, Plath, et al. > > The only oddities come in the very recent picks, who include four > relative unknowns (Chuck Wachtel, Norman H. Russell, Rochelle Kraut, and > Ralph Pomeroy) plus Wanda Coleman and Joni Mitchell. Otherwise it's pretty > much Nortonized classics all the way. > > I don't think it's *bad* to have yet another book dissecting > Shakespeare's sonnets and Williams's overexposed "Red Wheelbarrow," but it's > hardly earth-shaking stuff. > > For my money, Paglia's taste is ever more uncertain as she moves into the > contemporary world, too. That's no doubt true of most of us, of course. > She's pretty damn good on Shakespeare, Whitman, and so forth, but I don't > find her as convincing on Wanda Coleman, for instance. > > And Joni Mitchell, whose "Woodstock" lyrics close out the book, seems an > odd choice. Not that Mitchell isn't a great songwriter, but why this song? > Why not a thousand others? Why no song written in the past 40 years, for > that matter, if you're going to make a gesture at being hip and write a book > of poetry criticism specifically aimed at general audiences? Poor Paglia > reminds me in this regard of the minister of the church I attended as a kid > in the 1960s, who tried to reach out and be "relevant" to younger people in > his congregation by quoting Simon & Garfunkle lyrics in his sermons. Kids > who were, of course, listening to Jimi Hendrix, Bob Dylan, and The Doors at > the time. > > As far as I can tell, all but 6 of the 43 poets in the book are dead; and > even most of the recent poems are at least 30 years old. It's possible to > take Paglia at her word, and believe that she read intensively of work > published in the past few decades and found almost nothing worth analyzing; > it's also possible to doubt how hard she looked at anything that wasn't > already published when she was in grad school. > > Among other things, I would have appreciated a fuller discussion of why > she didn't just focus on Shakespeare et al.; or, failing that, if she was > determined to make some token gestures toward the contemporary world, what > factors went into her choices. Has she read Yusef Komunyakaa and found him > wanting? If so, why? No masterpieces by Richard Wilbur, Philip Levine, > Seamus Heaney, Elizabeth Bishop? Is Wanda Coleman really better than Hayden > Carruth, Charles Simic, Lucille Clifton, Albert Goldbarth, Robert Duncan, > James Wright, Robert Hass, Philip Larkin, Adrienne Rich. . . ? > > Still, such a book does no harm, and gives snipers like us a good target. > And I for one am pleased to see a prominent critic going back to good old > new-critical close reading. Despite Paglia's posturing, that probably *is* > a somewhat radical move these days. This might be a good book to assign in > college classes, in fact: it has the moves. > > > > ======================================== > David Graham > grahamd@ripon.edu > > Home Page: > http://web.mac.com/drjazz > > Poetry Library: > http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html > ========================================== > > > > > On Nov 18, 2008, at 9:14 PM, Bob Grumman wrote: > > > Because a book of poetry turns up on the bestseller list, is no reason to > despise it. > > I was going to let your post go in peace, Russ, but the above statement > gave me pause. At first, I thought, of course, no reason a poetry > best-seller ought to be lousy. Second thought: has there been a poetry > best seller in the last fifty years in this country that wasn't either > loaded with the masterpieces of yesterday or absolute crap? But I don't > despise this one, I despise its publishers. As I've said, repeating my > boilerplate forever. We have enough "good poems." Let us have an > anthology of kinds of poems never before in an anthology printed in editions > of more than a thousand--edited by someone who knows something about > poetry.. > > --Bob > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081119/57e87540/attachment.html From jbalizsprince at googlemail.com Wed Nov 19 08:05:34 2008 From: jbalizsprince at googlemail.com (Judy Prince) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:44 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Camlle Paglia In-Reply-To: <4923F894.5090702@nut-n-but.net> References: <111820082257.26086.492348480005C849000065E622243429029B0A02D29B9B0EBF98019C050C0E040D@att.net> <9A323822-D323-4C38-AD62-F21B001E29FC@ripon.edu> <4923F894.5090702@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <7db1d01b0811190505j4f454a97hd39d3cc13c08ae35@mail.gmail.com> My personal jury's still out on the Paglia question----because her book hasn't yet arrived in my mailbox, doggone it! But two things occur to me after reading David's and Bob's latest posts. IF, in her book, Paglia, through her many critiques, shows us what she thinks is exceptional poetry and convincingly demonstrates why she thinks it's exceptional, then we must conclude that she does not find the more contemporary poetry, for the most part, exceptional poetry. We must accept that. The scary part is only that, having agreed with her about her lovingly-dissected favourites, we are left holding poetry that we judge to be of equal merit---poetry, in some cases, which sounds like what we ourselves write. No wonder Paglia's frustrating us! I would put a Lucile Clifton poem and others by largely-unknown contemporary-to-us poets forward as worthy inclusions for Paglia, but after thoroly reconsidering Paglia's critical parameters, I must admit that my choices wouldn't make the cut either, dammit. I still value them and think they're beyond stunning and quiet-explosive....but they wouldnae make the cut. That leaves us those very few contemporary poems that Paglia feels ARE worthy to include, but that we scratch our heads with confusion, disgust, incredulity at Paglia's deeming as worthy as her [and our] ole faves. Wonder what she thinks they have so abundantly? Will perhaps find out when I read her book. Wonder what you-all think about it who HAVE READ HER BOOK. Judy 2008/11/19 Bob Grumman > Kind of annoying to find just about nothing to argue with in a David > Graham post, a *long* David Graham post. I *did* find *one* minor point > to attack him on, though: he says, "It's possible to take Paglia at her > word, and believe that she read intensively of work published in the past > few decades and found almost nothing worth analyzing . . ." I say it's > not. If she had, she would have *had* to have at least mentioned why she > had dismissed not just the many superior poets she did but the many *kinds > *of poetry she did. > > A second argument I have that she didn't do much of a survey of poetry to > find poems for her book is not so convincing: it is that in choosing just > about nothing but standards, and railing against modern taste in some area > of art, she reveals herself as a probable rigidnik, and no rigidnik, by (my) > definition, would be broadminded enough to have carried out a genuine survey > of the field. > > Nice that she picked something by Roethke, one of my favoritest favorites. > David, did she pick anything by Cummings? If so, was it one of his visual > poems. I hope not! It would make it harder for me to write her off. > > --Bob > > > > David Graham wrote: > > I don't despise Camille Paglia either, though I disagree with her often > enough, and find her style sometimes offputting. *Break, Blow, Burn*, the > bestselling book of poetry criticism in question, is a worthy book. > Considering it, I'm struck by several things. First, when was the last > time a book of serious poetry criticism was a best seller? I can think of a > few recent ones that seemed fairly popular, though I don't know how their > sales might compare to Paglia's: books by Edward Hirsch, Molly Peacock, > Robert Hass (collection of his *Washington Post* columns), and not many > others. So that's one thing worth pondering, and celebrating. > Second, a glance at Paglia's table of contents would, in fact, support > Bob Grumman's objections. For the most part, despite Paglia's strident > puffery and posturing in support of her project, she's picked little but > safely canonized classics to analyze, beginning with Shakespeare's sonnet > #73, and progressing through such cutting edge figures as Donne, Herbert, > Marvell, Blake, Wordsworth Shelley, Coleridge, Whitman, Dickinson, Yeats, > Stevens, Williams, Roethke, Lowell, Plath, et al. > > The only oddities come in the very recent picks, who include four > relative unknowns (Chuck Wachtel, Norman H. Russell, Rochelle Kraut, and > Ralph Pomeroy) plus Wanda Coleman and Joni Mitchell. Otherwise it's pretty > much Nortonized classics all the way. > > I don't think it's *bad* to have yet another book dissecting > Shakespeare's sonnets and Williams's overexposed "Red Wheelbarrow," but it's > hardly earth-shaking stuff. > > For my money, Paglia's taste is ever more uncertain as she moves into the > contemporary world, too. That's no doubt true of most of us, of course. > She's pretty damn good on Shakespeare, Whitman, and so forth, but I don't > find her as convincing on Wanda Coleman, for instance. > > And Joni Mitchell, whose "Woodstock" lyrics close out the book, seems an > odd choice. Not that Mitchell isn't a great songwriter, but why this song? > Why not a thousand others? Why no song written in the past 40 years, for > that matter, if you're going to make a gesture at being hip and write a book > of poetry criticism specifically aimed at general audiences? Poor Paglia > reminds me in this regard of the minister of the church I attended as a kid > in the 1960s, who tried to reach out and be "relevant" to younger people in > his congregation by quoting Simon & Garfunkle lyrics in his sermons. Kids > who were, of course, listening to Jimi Hendrix, Bob Dylan, and The Doors at > the time. > > As far as I can tell, all but 6 of the 43 poets in the book are dead; and > even most of the recent poems are at least 30 years old. It's possible to > take Paglia at her word, and believe that she read intensively of work > published in the past few decades and found almost nothing worth analyzing; > it's also possible to doubt how hard she looked at anything that wasn't > already published when she was in grad school. > > Among other things, I would have appreciated a fuller discussion of why > she didn't just focus on Shakespeare et al.; or, failing that, if she was > determined to make some token gestures toward the contemporary world, what > factors went into her choices. Has she read Yusef Komunyakaa and found him > wanting? If so, why? No masterpieces by Richard Wilbur, Philip Levine, > Seamus Heaney, Elizabeth Bishop? Is Wanda Coleman really better than Hayden > Carruth, Charles Simic, Lucille Clifton, Albert Goldbarth, Robert Duncan, > James Wright, Robert Hass, Philip Larkin, Adrienne Rich. . . ? > > Still, such a book does no harm, and gives snipers like us a good target. > And I for one am pleased to see a prominent critic going back to good old > new-critical close reading. Despite Paglia's posturing, that probably *is* > a somewhat radical move these days. This might be a good book to assign in > college classes, in fact: it has the moves. > > > > ======================================== > David Graham > grahamd@ripon.edu > > Home Page: > http://web.mac.com/drjazz > > Poetry Library: > http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html > ========================================== > > > > > On Nov 18, 2008, at 9:14 PM, Bob Grumman wrote: > > > Because a book of poetry turns up on the bestseller list, is no reason to > despise it. > > I was going to let your post go in peace, Russ, but the above statement > gave me pause. At first, I thought, of course, no reason a poetry > best-seller ought to be lousy. Second thought: has there been a poetry > best seller in the last fifty years in this country that wasn't either > loaded with the masterpieces of yesterday or absolute crap? But I don't > despise this one, I despise its publishers. As I've said, repeating my > boilerplate forever. We have enough "good poems." Let us have an > anthology of kinds of poems never before in an anthology printed in editions > of more than a thousand--edited by someone who knows something about > poetry.. > > --Bob > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081119/43481ac5/attachment.html From grahamd at ripon.edu Wed Nov 19 08:28:48 2008 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:44 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] RIP Donald Finkel In-Reply-To: <49238CFE.4050606@opus40.org> References: <49238CFE.4050606@opus40.org> Message-ID: <4942EA9B-4594-4A97-8FF1-C0A6965B1DC7@ripon.edu> The Ape Who Painted Toward the end of his painting career, Congo was producing excellent circles, but nearly always filled them in immediately. --Alexander Alland, Jr., The Artistic Animal from time to time he would pause to examine an apple, turning it in his long, sensitive fingers, or fish a dust-mouse gently from under his bed not a hair displaced or moon for hours, sprawled on his favorite tire praying to his thumb how fortunate we are to have captured on film this miraculous thumb, in full career sweeping in a great assured acc from left to right trailing a gleaming Indian Red parabola counterclockwise, following its own law tailing up again, toward its beginning deftly dividing out from in then filling carefully the bowl of zero with precious red, horizon to horizon toward the end, the painter's cage was strewn with fallen suns, great bloody periods pages from some cosmic calendar while he grew more taciturn than ever. --Donald Finkel. What Manner of Beast. Atheneum, 1981. ======================================== David Graham grahamd@ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.mac.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== On Nov 18, 2008, at 9:50 PM, TheOldMole wrote: > Donald Finkel, my beloved friend and mentor, died today in St. Louis. > > Donald Finkel, a celebrated poet at Washington University whose topics >> included his relationship with his cats and dogs, River Des Peres >> and his >> trip to the South Pole, died Saturday (Nov. 15, 2008) from >> complications of >> Alzheimer's disease at Schuetz Manor assisted-living home in Creve >> Coeur. >> >> He was 79 and a longtime resident of University City before moving to >> Lafayette Square. >> >> Mr. Finkel was poet-in-residence at Washington U., where he taught >> from >> 1960 until 1991. He wrote 14 books of poetry, with long narrative and >> frequently humorous free verse. Admirers described it as a new >> form, a >> fusion of text and poetry. >> >> His writing won prestigious awards. But his friends remember him >> best for >> his generous help to students, his enduring love for his late wife >> and >> writing partner, Constance Urdang, and his zeal for exploring >> everything >> around him. >> >> "He was a bearded skeleton, a belt-buckled force of nature," said >> David >> Clewell, a poet and professor at Webster University. He came to >> St. Louis >> to study under Mr. Finkel and stayed to become his longtime friend. >> >> "He dug into life as long as he could, with a zest that really was >> unparalleled," Clewell said. >> >> The Finkel family lived for years on Columbia Place in University >> City, a >> block from River Des Peres. While most residents paid little >> attention to >> what is normally little more than a drainage ditch, Mr. Finkel was >> fascinated. >> >> He wanted to know where the river came from, where it went and its >> history. >> He and his dog walked its entire length. He wrote a poem, a slim >> volume >> that he called "Beyond Despair," a play on the river's name. >> >> In 1968, Mr. Finkel signed on with a scientific expedition to >> Antarctica >> sponsored by the National Science Foundation. It was a government >> program >> to send artists to Antarctica, and Mr. Finkel knew the man in charge. >> >> "He loved the idea that he would be the first poet to go there," said >> Howard Schwartz, a former student and now professor of English at the >> University of Missouri-St. Louis. >> >> A group of Russians was there at the same time, and Mr. Finkel became >> friends with them. They traded shots of vodka, and Mr. Finkel >> traded parkas >> with one of them. Mr. Finkel wore it back to the United States, >> not knowing >> that his new coat said "AWOL" ? absent without leave ? in Russian. >> >> "My dad had that parka for years," recalled a daughter, Amy Finkel >> of St. >> Louis. >> >> Mr. Finkel wrote a book-length poem about his experience, >> "Adequate Earth." >> It was later set to music and performed at Powell Symphony Hall. >> >> Mr. Finkel was born in New York, a few blocks from Yankee Stadium, >> in 1929, >> the year of the Wall Street crash. >> >> He completed high school at a boarding school in Connecticut, from >> which he >> once ran away with a classmate, Elliott Adnopoz, later famous as >> the folk >> singer Ramblin' Jack Elliott. >> >> He taught at the University of Iowa Writers' Workshop, where he >> met his >> future wife. They married in 1956, embarking on a yearlong Mexican >> honeymoon and finally moving to St. Louis. >> >> In 1977, Washington University started a graduate writing program >> with Ms. >> Urdang as the coordinator, novelist Stanley Elkin teaching fiction >> and Mr. >> Finkel running the poetry workshop. >> >> His work examined the relationships between humans and animals ("What >> Manner of Beast") and between contemporary life and mythology >> ("Simeon"), >> the urge to explore ("Adequate Earth") and, especially, the >> anxieties and >> joys of ordinary life. >> >> He was fascinated with the Chinese poets who wrote about democracy >> during >> the Cultural Revolution and got in trouble with the Communist >> government. >> Mr. Finkel and poet Carolyn Kizer translated a collection of the >> poetry, "A >> Splintered Mirror." >> >> Mr. Finkel was nominated for the National Book Award and the >> National Book >> Critics Circle Award. >> >> His wife died of lung cancer in 1996. The two had been a team, >> editing and >> reading each other's work. "She held him together," said their >> son, Tom >> Finkel, editor of the Riverfront Times and a resident of Webster >> Groves. >> >> When he grew unable to write, Mr. Finkel returned to an earlier >> passion: >> sculpting. He constructed hundreds of works from plastic bottles, >> odds and >> ends, anything he could find around his apartment. >> >> "His creative impulse never died," Schwartz said. >> >> Washington University plans a memorial service at a time and date >> to be >> set. For information, call the English department at 314-935-5190. >> >> In addition to Tom and Amy Finkel, among the survivors are another >> daughter, Liza Finkel of Portland, Ore.; a half brother, David >> Finkel of >> New York; and two grandchildren. > > > -- > Tad Richards > http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ > http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ > > Don't forget to order your copy of FILM NOIR! > http://stores.lulu.com/store.php?fAcctID=2712239 > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081119/ca85b926/attachment.html From Opus40-01 at opus40.org Wed Nov 19 08:38:39 2008 From: Opus40-01 at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:44 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] RIP Donald Finkel In-Reply-To: <7db1d01b0811190358w61a7098ao247c196f308bf91e@mail.gmail.com> References: <49238CFE.4050606@opus40.org> <7db1d01b0811190358w61a7098ao247c196f308bf91e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <492416DF.10800@opus40.org> It's from the St. Louis Post-Dispatch, written by Michael D Sorkin. Judy Prince wrote: > Mole, who wrote this essay celebrating Donald Finkel's life? It's > thoroly wonderful, as, clearly, was the man himself. Thanks for this. > > Judy > > 2008/11/18 TheOldMole > > > Donald Finkel, my beloved friend and mentor, died today in St. Louis. > > Donald Finkel, a celebrated poet at Washington University whose topics > > included his relationship with his cats and dogs, River Des > Peres and his > trip to the South Pole, died Saturday (Nov. 15, 2008) from > complications of > Alzheimer's disease at Schuetz Manor assisted-living home in > Creve Coeur. > > He was 79 and a longtime resident of University City before > moving to > Lafayette Square. > > Mr. Finkel was poet-in-residence at Washington U., where he > taught from > 1960 until 1991. He wrote 14 books of poetry, with long > narrative and > frequently humorous free verse. Admirers described it as a new > form, a > fusion of text and poetry. > > His writing won prestigious awards. But his friends remember > him best for > his generous help to students, his enduring love for his late > wife and > writing partner, Constance Urdang, and his zeal for exploring > everything > around him. > > "He was a bearded skeleton, a belt-buckled force of nature," > said David > Clewell, a poet and professor at Webster University. He came > to St. Louis > to study under Mr. Finkel and stayed to become his longtime > friend. > > "He dug into life as long as he could, with a zest that really was > unparalleled," Clewell said. > > The Finkel family lived for years on Columbia Place in > University City, a > block from River Des Peres. While most residents paid little > attention to > what is normally little more than a drainage ditch, Mr. Finkel was > fascinated. > > He wanted to know where the river came from, where it went and > its history. > He and his dog walked its entire length. He wrote a poem, a > slim volume > that he called "Beyond Despair," a play on the river's name. > > In 1968, Mr. Finkel signed on with a scientific expedition to > Antarctica > sponsored by the National Science Foundation. It was a > government program > to send artists to Antarctica, and Mr. Finkel knew the man in > charge. > > "He loved the idea that he would be the first poet to go > there," said > Howard Schwartz, a former student and now professor of English > at the > University of Missouri-St. Louis. > > A group of Russians was there at the same time, and Mr. Finkel > became > friends with them. They traded shots of vodka, and Mr. Finkel > traded parkas > with one of them. Mr. Finkel wore it back to the United > States, not knowing > that his new coat said "AWOL" ? absent without leave ? in Russian. > > "My dad had that parka for years," recalled a daughter, Amy > Finkel of St. > Louis. > > Mr. Finkel wrote a book-length poem about his experience, > "Adequate Earth." > It was later set to music and performed at Powell Symphony Hall. > > Mr. Finkel was born in New York, a few blocks from Yankee > Stadium, in 1929, > the year of the Wall Street crash. > > He completed high school at a boarding school in Connecticut, > from which he > once ran away with a classmate, Elliott Adnopoz, later famous > as the folk > singer Ramblin' Jack Elliott. > > He taught at the University of Iowa Writers' Workshop, where > he met his > future wife. They married in 1956, embarking on a yearlong Mexican > honeymoon and finally moving to St. Louis. > > In 1977, Washington University started a graduate writing > program with Ms. > Urdang as the coordinator, novelist Stanley Elkin teaching > fiction and Mr. > Finkel running the poetry workshop. > > His work examined the relationships between humans and animals > ("What > Manner of Beast") and between contemporary life and mythology > ("Simeon"), > the urge to explore ("Adequate Earth") and, especially, the > anxieties and > joys of ordinary life. > > He was fascinated with the Chinese poets who wrote about > democracy during > the Cultural Revolution and got in trouble with the Communist > government. > Mr. Finkel and poet Carolyn Kizer translated a collection of > the poetry, "A > Splintered Mirror." > > Mr. Finkel was nominated for the National Book Award and the > National Book > Critics Circle Award. > > His wife died of lung cancer in 1996. The two had been a team, > editing and > reading each other's work. "She held him together," said their > son, Tom > Finkel, editor of the Riverfront Times and a resident of > Webster Groves. > > When he grew unable to write, Mr. Finkel returned to an > earlier passion: > sculpting. He constructed hundreds of works from plastic > bottles, odds and > ends, anything he could find around his apartment. > > "His creative impulse never died," Schwartz said. > > Washington University plans a memorial service at a time and > date to be > set. For information, call the English department at 314-935-5190. > > In addition to Tom and Amy Finkel, among the survivors are another > daughter, Liza Finkel of Portland, Ore.; a half brother, David > Finkel of > New York; and two grandchildren. > > > > -- > Tad Richards > http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ > http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ > > Don't forget to order your copy of FILM NOIR! > http://stores.lulu.com/store.php?fAcctID=2712239 > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ Don't forget to order your copy of FILM NOIR! http://stores.lulu.com/store.php?fAcctID=2712239 From grahamd at ripon.edu Wed Nov 19 08:43:39 2008 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:44 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: RIP Donald Finkel In-Reply-To: <492416DF.10800@opus40.org> References: <49238CFE.4050606@opus40.org> <7db1d01b0811190358w61a7098ao247c196f308bf91e@mail.gmail.com> <492416DF.10800@opus40.org> Message-ID: There's also a different obituary now up at Poetry Daily, by Robert Duffy. http://www.stlbeacon.org/issues_politics/region/ don_finkel_brought_grace_and_passion_to_his_poety_and_his_teaching ======================================== David Graham grahamd@ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.mac.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== On Nov 19, 2008, at 7:38 AM, TheOldMole wrote: > It's from the St. Louis Post-Dispatch, written by Michael D Sorkin. > > Judy Prince wrote: >> Mole, who wrote this essay celebrating Donald Finkel's life? It's >> thoroly wonderful, as, clearly, was the man himself. Thanks for >> this. >> >> Judy -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081119/2beeb7f1/attachment.html From jforjames at aol.com Wed Nov 19 09:14:05 2008 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames@aol.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:44 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] RIP Donald Finkel In-Reply-To: <49238CFE.4050606@opus40.org> References: <49238CFE.4050606@opus40.org> Message-ID: <8CB186836744AEC-C70-F50@WEBMAIL-MA05.sysops.aol.com> Sorry to hear about that, Tad. I didn't know him really well.?But he was a good poet and a great teacher. I knew a number of poets who took their MFAs in Poetry at Wash U and to a one they loved working with Don Finkel. My first poetry teacher, Howard Schwartz, who is quoted in the article was a student of Finkel's too. Finnegan Donald Finkel, my beloved friend and mentor, died today in St. Louis.? ? Donald Finkel, a celebrated poet at Washington University whose topics? > included his relationship with his cats and dogs, River Des Peres and his? > trip to the South Pole, died Saturday (Nov. 15, 2008) from complications of? > Alzheimer's disease at Schuetz Manor assisted-living home in Creve Coeur.? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081119/5c0ddf74/attachment.html From amyhappens at yahoo.com Wed Nov 19 09:48:04 2008 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:45 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] THIS FRIDAY - Carnahan, Casamassima, Grinnell, Lederer, Oberman, and Rohrer Message-ID: <913886.9862.qm@web83306.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Friday, November 21, 2008 @ 7:00?p.m. November 21st @ 7 p.m. - Stain Bar - Williamsburg, Brooklyn ** Carnahan, Casamassima, Grinnell, Lederer, Oberman, and Rohrer ** Special Musical Guest @ Intermission: Addenda Brooklyn resident Kerry Carnahan has co-authored and edited a number of publications, including the New York City High Performance Infrastructure Guidelines, Cool and Green Roofs, and Sustainable Urban Sites (forthcoming), and is working towards her MFA in poetry from CUNY-Hunter College. ~~~Christophe Casamassima is the editor and proprietor of furniture_press in Baltimore where he teaches at Towson University. He is also the Literary Arts Director of the Towson Arts Collective. His collections of poetry include the Proteus (Moria, 2008) and Joys: A Catalogue of Disappointments (BlazeVOX, 2008). ~~~ E. TracyGrinnell is the author of Some Clear Souvenir (O Books, 2006) and Music or Forgetting (O Books, 2001), as well as the limited edition chapbooks Leukadia (Trafficker Press, forthcoming 2008), Quadriga, a collaboration with Paul Foster Johnson (gong chapbooks, 2006), Of the Frame (Portable Press at Yo-Yo Labs, 2004), and Harmonics (Melodeon Poetry Systems, 2000). She lives in Brooklyn and edits Litmus Press and its annual journal of poetry and translation, Aufgabe. ~~~Katy Lederer is the author of the poetry collections, Winter Sex (Verse Press, 2002) and The Heaven-Sent Leaf (BOA Editions, forthcoming 2008 ) as well as the memoir Poker Face: A Girlhood Among Gamblers (Crown, 2003), which Publishers Weekly included on its list of the Best Nonfiction Books of 2003 and Esquire Magazine named one of its eight Best Books of the Year 2003. ~~~~ Miller Oberman was the 2005 recipient of Poetry Magazine's Ruth Lilly Fellowship and has recently had poems in Bloom Magazine, the Minnesota Review, and Lilith. Miller lives in Brooklyn with Zero Oberman. ~~~~ Matthew Rohrer is the author of five books, most recently RISE UP, published by Wave Books. He teaches at NYU in the creative writing program, and lives in Brooklyn. ~~~SPECIAL INTERMISSION GUEST While Addenda is just beginning, there's a history. Dan Sofaer and Christopher Anderson first met when Christopher was the singer in the Washington, D.C. band Nine Men Are Suicides. After being musical director for the recording of the one song the band knew how to play (Sister Ray by the Velvet Underground), Dan went on to be a founding member of the Silence After and Christopher rejoined him in '88 for the short-lived Hurricane Daisy, whose killer demo had Fugazi's Don Zientara for its producer. After years in the wilderness, Dan reemerged as bassist in the San Francisco trio Giant Haystacks, and Christopher posted some Prince covers on MySpace. A chance note from Japan has reunited them, and they're ready to bring the spirit to the letter. You can find their music at myspace.com/addenda ~~~~ stain 766 grand street brooklyn, ny 11211 (L train to Grand Street, 1 block west) 718/387-7840 open daily @ 5 p.m. ~~~~ Hosted by Amy King and Ana Bozicevic ~~~~http://stainofpoetry.wordpress.com/ http://stainofpoetry.wordpress.com/ http://stainofpoetry.wordpress.com/ _______ Recent work http://www.writing.upenn.edu/pennsound/x/King.html Amy's Alias http://amyking.org/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081119/e180bf94/attachment.html From Opus40-01 at opus40.org Wed Nov 19 10:40:14 2008 From: Opus40-01 at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:45 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] RIP Donald Finkel In-Reply-To: <8CB186836744AEC-C70-F50@WEBMAIL-MA05.sysops.aol.com> References: <49238CFE.4050606@opus40.org> <8CB186836744AEC-C70-F50@WEBMAIL-MA05.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <4924335E.6040001@opus40.org> From last years poets' tribute to Don: http://blogs.riverfronttimes.com/stlog/2008/04/poets_gone_wild_i_held_sarah_j.php http://blogs.riverfronttimes.com/stlog/2008/04/poets_gone_wild_the_sequel.php jforjames@aol.com wrote: > Sorry to hear about that, Tad. I didn't know him really well. But he > was a good poet and a great teacher. I knew a number of poets who took > their MFAs in Poetry at Wash U and to a one they loved working with > Don Finkel. My first poetry teacher, Howard Schwartz, who is quoted in > the article was a student of Finkel's too. > > Finnegan > > Donald Finkel, my beloved friend and mentor, died today in St. Louis. > > Donald Finkel, a celebrated poet at Washington University whose > topics > > included his relationship with his cats and dogs, River Des > Peres and his > > trip to the South Pole, died Saturday (Nov. 15, 2008) from > complications of > > Alzheimer's disease at Schuetz Manor assisted-living home in > Creve Coeur. > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Instant access to the latest & most popular FREE games while you > browse with the Games Toolbar - Download Now! > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ Don't forget to order your copy of FILM NOIR! http://stores.lulu.com/store.php?fAcctID=2712239 From chris.lott at gmail.com Wed Nov 19 12:16:38 2008 From: chris.lott at gmail.com (Chris Lott) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:45 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Camlle Paglia In-Reply-To: <7db1d01b0811190505j4f454a97hd39d3cc13c08ae35@mail.gmail.com> References: <111820082257.26086.492348480005C849000065E622243429029B0A02D29B9B0EBF98019C050C0E040D@att.net> <9A323822-D323-4C38-AD62-F21B001E29FC@ripon.edu> <4923F894.5090702@nut-n-but.net> <7db1d01b0811190505j4f454a97hd39d3cc13c08ae35@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <9b1b9dab0811190916p59a71f04g5cba29bba860139d@mail.gmail.com> So in a way, Paglia's closest compatriot on this list should be Bob, who also thinks (I think) that all those modes of poetry are worn out and looks at contemporary poetry of those kinds and finds it all wanting. It wouldn't surprise me if Paglia were completely unaware of most of the post-avant and visual crowd-- I'm continually amazed at the relatively well-read poetry readers who have no clue that any of that exists. Someone needs to send Paglia some Mathemaku-- if she likes it who knows what might happen. A Paglia/Grumman collaboration? The end of the world as we know it? On Wed, Nov 19, 2008 at 04:05, Judy Prince wrote: > IF, in her book, Paglia, through her many critiques, shows us what she > thinks is exceptional poetry and convincingly demonstrates why she thinks > it's exceptional, then we must conclude that she does not find the more > contemporary poetry, for the most part, exceptional poetry. We must accept > that. The scary part is only that, having agreed with her about her > lovingly-dissected favourites, we are left holding poetry that we judge to > be of equal merit---poetry, in some cases, which sounds like what we > ourselves write. No wonder Paglia's frustrating us! From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Wed Nov 19 12:39:56 2008 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:45 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] RIP Donald Finkel In-Reply-To: <4924335E.6040001@opus40.org> References: <49238CFE.4050606@opus40.org> <8CB186836744AEC-C70-F50@WEBMAIL-MA05.sysops.aol.com> <4924335E.6040001@opus40.org> Message-ID: <4b65c2d70811190939j3ad01d64qf4749c457dc6f03a@mail.gmail.com> My friend's sorrow is also my sorrow, Anny On Wed, Nov 19, 2008 at 4:40 PM, TheOldMole wrote: > From last years poets' tribute to Don: > > > http://blogs.riverfronttimes.com/stlog/2008/04/poets_gone_wild_i_held_sarah_j.php > > > http://blogs.riverfronttimes.com/stlog/2008/04/poets_gone_wild_the_sequel.php > > > > jforjames@aol.com wrote: > >> Sorry to hear about that, Tad. I didn't know him really well. But he was a >> good poet and a great teacher. I knew a number of poets who took their MFAs >> in Poetry at Wash U and to a one they loved working with Don Finkel. My >> first poetry teacher, Howard Schwartz, who is quoted in the article was a >> student of Finkel's too. >> >> Finnegan >> >> Donald Finkel, my beloved friend and mentor, died today in St. Louis. >> Donald Finkel, a celebrated poet at Washington University whose >> topics > included his relationship with his cats and dogs, River Des >> Peres and his > trip to the South Pole, died Saturday (Nov. 15, >> 2008) from >> complications of > Alzheimer's disease at Schuetz Manor >> assisted-living home in >> Creve Coeur. >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> Instant access to the latest & most popular FREE games while you browse >> with the Games Toolbar - Download Now! < >> http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1212904500x1200818240/aol?redir=http://toolbar.aol.com/games/download.html?ncid=emlweusdown00000004> >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> > > -- > Tad Richards > http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ > http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ > > Don't forget to order your copy of FILM NOIR! > http://stores.lulu.com/store.php?fAcctID=2712239 > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081119/ab97259a/attachment.html From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Wed Nov 19 12:54:43 2008 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:45 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: [Fwd: UMP | New in Political Theory] In-Reply-To: <49244FE6.3040909@tin.it> References: <49244FE6.3040909@tin.it> Message-ID: <4b65c2d70811190954x6ba495b8i9f1b68e6574c0f3@mail.gmail.com> Skipped content of type multipart/related-------------- next part -------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.549 / Virus Database: 270.9.6/1797 - Release Date: 11/18/2008 11:23 AM From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Wed Nov 19 14:50:10 2008 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:45 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Sugar Mountain Message-ID: <4b65c2d70811191150o3712790ex3834536b42f464f0@mail.gmail.com> and some other songs - 1968, I just found Neil Young on npr, I did not look for it, another shivering flashback again, how strange http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=97029604 Airport Surroundings -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081119/a5150a00/attachment.html From jforjames at aol.com Wed Nov 19 15:14:35 2008 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames@aol.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:45 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Dear Allen - Dear Gary Message-ID: <8CB189A93636953-9F8-8E9@mblk-d16.sysops.aol.com> http://blog.oregonlive.com/books/2008/11/beat_poets_40_years_of_letters.html "Allen and I came from the far ends of the nation," Snyder writes in an introduction to "The Selected Letters of Allen Ginsberg and Gary Snyder" (Counterpoint, $28, 321 pages). "I was from German and Scandinavian working farmer/logger/fisherman world of pre-WWII Puget Sound, Allen from the New York City Immigrant Left. We met in a backyard in Berkeley, and again in Kenneth Rexroth's wood-floored apartment in the foggy Avenues zone of San Francisco. ... We argued a lot and were not easy on each other. I made him walk more, and he made me talk more. It was good for both of us." -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081119/4651619b/attachment.html From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Wed Nov 19 16:29:27 2008 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:45 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Woody Guthrie Message-ID: <4b65c2d70811191329ob917f09oca045c2b3ad2d611@mail.gmail.com> *>From:* William Kaufman [mailto:WKaufman@uclan.ac.uk] >*Sent:* Wednesday, November 19, 2008 10:36 AM *All You Jim Crow Fascists! **Woody Guthrie's Freedom Songs*: Will Kaufman's *new* musical presentation explores Woody Guthrie's anti-racist songs and activism. Conventionally known for his championing of the poor white Dust Bowl migrants, Guthrie also left an extensive body of songs condemning Jim Crow segregation, race hatred and racial fascism. Most of these songs were never recorded, but they are the legacy of Guthrie's own personal transformation from casual Oklahoma racist to committed civil rights activist working and singing with the likes of Lead Belly, Sonny Terry, Brownie McGhee and Paul Robeson in the 1940s and 50s. It is a truly heartening and uplifting legacy, demonstrated through live performance and historical commentary. Will Kaufman is a Professor of American Literature and Culture at the University of Central Lancashire. To book this live musical and spoken-word presentation for your students, seminars or conferences, please contact Will at wkaufman@uclan.ac.uk. As ever, no fee requested - only expenses. Will Kaufman, FRSA, FHEA Professor of American Literature and Culture School of Journalism, Media and Communication University of Central Lancashire Preston PR1 2HE, United Kingdom *All You Jim Crow Fascists!** Woody Guthrie's Freedom Songs *? find out about it on www.myspace.com/willkaufman -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081119/62bc8549/attachment.html From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Wed Nov 19 17:28:43 2008 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:45 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Camlle Paglia In-Reply-To: <9b1b9dab0811190916p59a71f04g5cba29bba860139d@mail.gmail.com> References: <111820082257.26086.492348480005C849000065E622243429029B0A02D29B9B0EBF98019C050C0E040D@att.net><9A323822-D323-4C38-AD 62-F21B001E29FC@ripon.edu><4923F894.5090702@nut-n-but.net><7db1d01b0811190505j4f454a97hd39d3cc13c08ae35@mail.gmail.com> <9b1b9dab0811190916p59a71f04g5cba29bba860139d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4924931B.3050504@nut-n-but.net> Chris Lott wrote: > So in a way, Paglia's closest compatriot on this list should be Bob, > who also thinks (I think) that all those modes of poetry are worn out > and looks at contemporary poetry of those kinds and finds it all > wanting. > She and I agree that certain contemporary poets are over-rated--John Ashbery and Jorie Graham, for instance. And we would agree that too much contemporary poetry is uninspired Iowa Plaintext Lyricism. We probably like several of the same old-timers. Otherwise, we're hugely different. I like much more canonized poetry than she seems to, and I do not scorn even Iowa Plaintext Lyricism to the degree she does. As I keep saying, I am unhappy that it seems about the only kind of poetry that gets wide publication, and money in the form of awards. That doesn't mean I don't like some of it. If I were asked to write a book like Paglia's but limit my appreciations to conventional poetry, I'd deal with many more contemporary poems than she had. I'd dump many of the older poems to make room for them. Not because the newer poems were better but because I see little point in re-appreciating standards. > It wouldn't surprise me if Paglia were completely unaware of most of > the post-avant and visual crowd-- I'm continually amazed at the > relatively well-read poetry readers who have no clue that any of that > exists. > > Someone needs to send Paglia some Mathemaku-- if she likes it who > knows what might happen. A Paglia/Grumman collaboration? The end of > the world as we know it? Maybe I should do one on Marilyn Monroe and Madonna . . . --Bob From chris.lott at gmail.com Wed Nov 19 19:38:54 2008 From: chris.lott at gmail.com (Chris Lott) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:45 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Camlle Paglia In-Reply-To: <4924931B.3050504@nut-n-but.net> References: <111820082257.26086.492348480005C849000065E622243429029B0A02D29B9B0EBF98019C050C0E040D@att.net> <4923F894.5090702@nut-n-but.net> <7db1d01b0811190505j4f454a97hd39d3cc13c08ae35@mail.gmail.com> <9b1b9dab0811190916p59a71f04g5cba29bba860139d@mail.gmail.com> <4924931B.3050504@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <9b1b9dab0811191638k4ba1e4ddjdd28e8758c8c70b9@mail.gmail.com> On Wed, Nov 19, 2008 at 13:28, Bob Grumman wrote: > I were asked to write a book like Paglia's but limit my appreciations to > conventional poetry, I'd deal with many more contemporary poems than she > had. I'd dump many of the older poems to make room for them. Not because > the newer poems were better but because I see little point in > re-appreciating standards. I was being tongue-in-cheek, but since you value newness so much, wouldn't you feature the standards that were at least new once rather than contemporary followers that have, in your scheme as I understand it, never been new at all? c From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Wed Nov 19 20:26:53 2008 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:45 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Camlle Paglia In-Reply-To: <9b1b9dab0811191638k4ba1e4ddjdd28e8758c8c70b9@mail.gmail.com> References: <111820082257.26086.492348480005C849000065E622243429029B0A02D29B9B0EBF98019C050C0E040D@att.net><4923F894.5090702@nut- n-but.net><7db1d01b0811190505j4f454a97hd39d3cc13c08ae35@mail.gmail.com><9b1b9dab0811190916p59a71f04g5cba29bba860139d@mail.gmail .com><4924931B.3050504@nut-n-but.net> <9b1b9dab0811191638k4ba1e4ddjdd28e8758c8c70b9@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4924BCDC.9010006@nut-n-but.net> Chris Lott wrote: > On Wed, Nov 19, 2008 at 13:28, Bob Grumman wrote: > > >> If I were asked to write a book like Paglia's but limit my appreciations to >> conventional poetry, I'd deal with many more contemporary poems than she >> had. I'd dump many of the older poems to make room for them. Not because >> the newer poems were better but because I see little point in >> re-appreciating standards. >> > > I was being tongue-in-cheek, but since you value newness so much, > wouldn't you feature the standards that were at least new once rather > than contemporary followers that have, in your scheme as I understand > it, never been new at all? > I feature newness as commentator/publisher because too few others are. I neglect excellent unnewness because so many others /don't/ neglect it. If I were doing a 200-page anthology for a big publisher, I'd have nothing but what I call burstnorm poetry. To make up for its absence in other anthologies. If I were allowed to do a thousand-page anthology, I'd try to cover every kind of poetry, including kinds I didn't much like. Above, though, I was talking about a Paglia-type anthology--that is, one confined to the un-new. I think I could do a better one than she. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081119/fd8a361e/attachment.html From jjeffreymail at yahoo.com Wed Nov 19 21:34:23 2008 From: jjeffreymail at yahoo.com (John Jeffrey) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:46 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Camlle Paglia References: <111820082257.26086.492348480005C849000065E622243429029B0A02D29B9B0EBF98019C050C0E040D@att.net><4923848E.1040403@nut- n-but.net> <9A323822-D323-4C38-AD62-F21B001E29FC@ripon.edu> <4923F894.5090702@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <649503.58619.qm@web54105.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Bob, Here's a list of the poems that Paglia reviews in the book: http://www.randomhouse.com/pantheon/paglia/toc.html John J ________________________________ From: Bob Grumman To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views" Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2008 6:29:24 AM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Camlle Paglia Kind of annoying to find just about nothing to argue with in a David Graham post, a long David Graham post. I did find one minor point to attack him on, though: he says, "It's possible to take Paglia at her word, and believe that she read intensively of work published in the past few decades and found almost nothing worth analyzing . . ." I say it's not. If she had, she would have had to have at least mentioned why she had dismissed not just the many superior poets she did but the many kinds of poetry she did. A second argument I have that she didn't do much of a survey of poetry to find poems for her book is not so convincing: it is that in choosing just about nothing but standards, and railing against modern taste in some area of art, she reveals herself as a probable rigidnik, and no rigidnik, by (my) definition, would be broadminded enough to have carried out a genuine survey of the field. Nice that she picked something by Roethke, one of my favoritest favorites. David, did she pick anything by Cummings? If so, was it one of his visual poems. I hope not! It would make it harder for me to write her off. --Bob David Graham wrote: I don't despise Camille Paglia either, though I disagree with her often enough, and find her style sometimes offputting. *Break, Blow, Burn*, the bestselling book of poetry criticism in question, is a worthy book. Considering it, I'm struck by several things. First, when was the last time a book of serious poetry criticism was a best seller? I can think of a few recent ones that seemed fairly popular, though I don't know how their sales might compare to Paglia's: books by Edward Hirsch, Molly Peacock, Robert Hass (collection of his *Washington Post* columns), and not many others. So that's one thing worth pondering, and celebrating. Second, a glance at Paglia's table of contents would, in fact, support Bob Grumman's objections. For the most part, despite Paglia's strident puffery and posturing in support of her project, she's picked little but safely canonized classics to analyze, beginning with Shakespeare's sonnet #73, and progressing through such cutting edge figures as Donne, Herbert, Marvell, Blake, Wordsworth Shelley, Coleridge, Whitman, Dickinson, Yeats, Stevens, Williams, Roethke, Lowell, Plath, et al. The only oddities come in the very recent picks, who include four relative unknowns (Chuck Wachtel, Norman H. Russell, Rochelle Kraut, and Ralph Pomeroy) plus Wanda Coleman and Joni Mitchell. Otherwise it's pretty much Nortonized classics all the way. I don't think it's *bad* to have yet another book dissecting Shakespeare's sonnets and Williams's overexposed "Red Wheelbarrow," but it's hardly earth-shaking stuff. For my money, Paglia's taste is ever more uncertain as she moves into the contemporary world, too. That's no doubt true of most of us, of course. She's pretty damn good on Shakespeare, Whitman, and so forth, but I don't find her as convincing on Wanda Coleman, for instance. And Joni Mitchell, whose "Woodstock" lyrics close out the book, seems an odd choice. Not that Mitchell isn't a great songwriter, but why this song? Why not a thousand others? Why no song written in the past 40 years, for that matter, if you're going to make a gesture at being hip and write a book of poetry criticism specifically aimed at general audiences? Poor Paglia reminds me in this regard of the minister of the church I attended as a kid in the 1960s, who tried to reach out and be "relevant" to younger people in his congregation by quoting Simon & Garfunkle lyrics in his sermons. Kids who were, of course, listening to Jimi Hendrix, Bob Dylan, and The Doors at the time. As far as I can tell, all but 6 of the 43 poets in the book are dead; and even most of the recent poems are at least 30 years old. It's possible to take Paglia at her word, and believe that she read intensively of work published in the past few decades and found almost nothing worth analyzing; it's also possible to doubt how hard she looked at anything that wasn't already published when she was in grad school. Among other things, I would have appreciated a fuller discussion of why she didn't just focus on Shakespeare et al.; or, failing that, if she was determined to make some token gestures toward the contemporary world, what factors went into her choices. Has she read Yusef Komunyakaa and found him wanting? If so, why? No masterpieces by Richard Wilbur, Philip Levine, Seamus Heaney, Elizabeth Bishop? Is Wanda Coleman really better than Hayden Carruth, Charles Simic, Lucille Clifton, Albert Goldbarth, Robert Duncan, James Wright, Robert Hass, Philip Larkin, Adrienne Rich. . . ? Still, such a book does no harm, and gives snipers like us a good target. And I for one am pleased to see a prominent critic going back to good old new-critical close reading. Despite Paglia's posturing, that probably *is* a somewhat radical move these days. This might be a good book to assign in college classes, in fact: it has the moves. ======================================== David Graham grahamd@ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.mac.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== On Nov 18, 2008, at 9:14 PM, Bob Grumman wrote: Because a book of poetry turns up on the bestseller list, is no reason to despise it. I was going to let your post go in peace, Russ, but the above statement gave me pause. At first, I thought, of course, no reason a poetry best-seller ought to be lousy. Second thought: has there been a poetry best seller in the last fifty years in this country that wasn't either loaded with the masterpieces of yesterday or absolute crap? But I don't despise this one, I despise its publishers. As I've said, repeating my boilerplate forever. We have enough "good poems." Let us have an anthology of kinds of poems never before in an anthology printed in editions of more than a thousand--edited by someone who knows something about poetry.. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081119/0b6b3fa1/attachment.html From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Wed Nov 19 22:21:50 2008 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:46 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Camlle Paglia In-Reply-To: <649503.58619.qm@web54105.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <111820082257.26086.492348480005C849000065E622243429029B0A02D29B9B0EBF98019C050C0E040D@att.net><4923848E.1040403@nut- n-but.net> <9A323822-D323-4C38-AD62-F21B001E29FC@ripon.edu><4923F894.5090702@nut-n-but.net> <649503.58619.qm@web54105.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4924D7CE.5050406@nut-n-but.net> John Jeffrey wrote: > Bob, > > Here's a list of the poems that Paglia reviews in the book: > http://www.randomhouse.com/pantheon/paglia/toc.html > > John J > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > ** Thanks, John. I'm waiting for it to get on my screen this very moment. Reaction tomorrow. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081119/13480741/attachment.html From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Thu Nov 20 08:16:39 2008 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:46 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Thank you Message-ID: <4b65c2d70811200516y7f0186fx9bbd6e3179ab3100@mail.gmail.com> to Bob Holman (who, if I am not wrong is in Africa) and Margery Snyder: http://poetry.about.com/b/2008/11/20/poets-writing-history-immediate-responses-to-the-2008-american-election.htm + Bob Grumman has a Mathematiku on the Anthology + please, do send over your work, as you know you are among my most respected poetic voices. A great day to you all, Anny -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081120/b8434763/attachment.html From jforjames at aol.com Thu Nov 20 08:59:58 2008 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames@aol.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:46 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: One Month Left to Enter to Win the Barthelme Prize! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8CB192F6873C98A-C88-1A64@mblk-d30.sysops.aol.com> http://www.centerforward.com/~gulfcoas/index.php?n=3 Hello, writers and readers, There's one month left to enter Gulf Coast's inaugural prose poem / flash fiction contest: The Donald Barthelme Prize for Short Prose This year?s judge: Beckian Fritz Goldberg Guidelines: Submit up to 3 previously unpublished prose poems or short stories, each no more than 500 words in length. Your name and address should appear on the cover letter only. All entries will be eligible for publication, though only one will receive our $500 prize. Manuscripts will not be returned. Include an SASE for results. Your $15 reading fee, payable to ?Gulf Coast,? will include a one-year subscription. Send Entries to: Barthelme Prize, Gulf Coast English Dept, Univ. of Houston Houston, TX 77204-3013 Deadline: December 20, 2008 Gulf Coast: A Journal of Literature and Fine Arts We're looking forward to reading your entries! Sincerely, Laurie Ann Cedilnik Managing Editor If you no longer wish to receive these emails, please reply to this message with "Opt-Out" in the subject line or simply click on the following link: Opt-Out Gulf Coast: A Journal of Literature and Fine Art Department of English University of Houston Houston, Texas 77204-3013 Read the VerticalResponse marketing policy. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081120/b7b0d08a/attachment.html From alexdickow9 at yahoo.com Thu Nov 20 09:06:16 2008 From: alexdickow9 at yahoo.com (Alexander Dickow) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:46 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: New-Poetry Digest, Vol 53, Issue 33 In-Reply-To: <200811191015.mAJAFenK014933@wiz.cath.vt.edu> Message-ID: <457695.14522.qm@web35502.mail.mud.yahoo.com> David wrote: "No masterpieces by Richard Wilbur, Philip Levine, Seamus Heaney, Elizabeth Bishop?" Hm, let me see here... ...nope. Amicalement, Alex From jforjames at aol.com Thu Nov 20 09:11:55 2008 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames@aol.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:46 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Doty takes Nat'l Book Award Message-ID: <8CB193113FEE316-EB4-83@mblk-d30.sysops.aol.com> http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/headline/features/6122218.html The poetry prize went to University of Houston professor Mark Doty for Fire to Fire: New and Selected Poems (HarperCollins), while the fiction award went to 81-year-old Peter Matthiessen for Shadow Country (Modern Library). http://www.nationalbook.org/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081120/2ef2f8ed/attachment.html From jforjames at aol.com Thu Nov 20 09:36:53 2008 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames@aol.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:46 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: Nimrod Call for Submissions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8CB193490285919-EB4-1FB@mblk-d30.sysops.aol.com> FYI. I believe we have a few Mexico sojourners on this list... -- ello!??I?m writing to invite you to submit to?Nimrod nternational Journal?s upcoming issue, which will focus on exico.?One of the oldest ?little magazines? in the country, imrod has continually published new and extraordinary writers since 956. Each year,?Nimrod?devotes its spring issue to a articular theme, often centered on a particular region of the world. e last visited Mexico in our Latin American issues of 1973 and 1983, nd thought it was time to return to explore this complex, historical, nd artistically prolific area. We are interested in receiving poetry, short stories, and ersonal essays, in English or in translation into English, by those urrently living in Mexico, by Mexican residents of the United States nd other countries, and by others who write about or from within the ulture.?Please send no more than 10 pages of poetry, and tories and essays of no more than 7,500 words. Our interest is not imited to any subject or style. Surprise us! Translations should be accompanied by the original and, when ecessary, a release from the author to publish n?Nimrod.??Nimrod?copyrights each ssue as a whole and then, on request, is happy to release rights to ach author. If you are living in the United States, please mail your submission to: Nimrod Journal he University of Tulsa 00 S. Tucker Dr. ulsa, OK 74104 lease mark both the outer envelope and the cover letter with ?Mexico ssue.? If you are living outside the United States, you may either send your ubmission by mail or by email o?0000,0000,EEEEnimrod@utulsa.edu, with t pasted into the body of the email. The deadline for submissions is December 15th, 008.?Please feel free to share this information with any riends, students, or writing groups.?For more information bout?Nimrod, please visit our ebsite:?0000,0000,EEEEwww.utulsa.edu/nimrod. f you have any questions, please contact me at 918-631-3080 r?0000,0000,EEEEnimrod@utulsa.edu. ? Best, ? Eilis O?Neal Managing Editor = -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081120/56b68e3d/attachment.html From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Thu Nov 20 10:38:48 2008 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:46 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Issuu Message-ID: <4b65c2d70811200738x7eab990fif738bf11d8aa5685@mail.gmail.com> Didi Menendez is working hard on Issuu: http://issuu.com/didimenendez/docs/jacktimes_2003 and many more, find them. Best, Anny -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081120/c0e1e81c/attachment.html From ciccariello at gmail.com Thu Nov 20 10:41:01 2008 From: ciccariello at gmail.com (Peter Ciccariello) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:46 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Issuu In-Reply-To: <4b65c2d70811200738x7eab990fif738bf11d8aa5685@mail.gmail.com> References: <4b65c2d70811200738x7eab990fif738bf11d8aa5685@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <8f3fdbad0811200741t4efbaa34i69940edcb1b222a0@mail.gmail.com> Yes, I second that. A remarkable flurry of captivating work. - Peter On Thu, Nov 20, 2008 at 10:38 AM, Anny Ballardini wrote: > Didi Menendez is working hard on Issuu: > http://issuu.com/didimenendez/docs/jacktimes_2003 > > and many more, find them. > Best, > > Anny > > -- > Anny Ballardini > http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ > http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome > http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html > I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing > star! > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081120/65d41424/attachment.html From atelierjewelweed at gmail.com Thu Nov 20 11:37:00 2008 From: atelierjewelweed at gmail.com (Suzanne Burns) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:46 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Doty takes Nat'l Book Award In-Reply-To: <8CB193113FEE316-EB4-83@mblk-d30.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CB193113FEE316-EB4-83@mblk-d30.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: Awwwwwweesome! :-) I love that boo, and in my opinion Doty is one of the best poets pushing a pen out there. Suzanne On Thu, Nov 20, 2008 at 9:11 AM, wrote: > http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/headline/features/6122218.html > > The poetry prize went to University of Houston professor Mark Doty for *Fire > to Fire: New and Selected Poems (*HarperCollins), while the fiction award > went to 81-year-old Peter Matthiessen for *Shadow Country (*Modern > Library). > > http://www.nationalbook.org/ > > ------------------------------ > Traveling over the river or through the woods this holiday season? Get the > MapQuest Toolbar. > Directions, Traffic, Gas Prices & More! > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081120/7c9cf053/attachment.html From jforjames at aol.com Thu Nov 20 11:50:57 2008 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames@aol.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:46 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Aphorisms In-Reply-To: <4b65c2d70811181010g6a17b519jdd8af595ebeef76e@mail.gmail.com> References: <731bb17a0811160717q7f07a16dpfe7e1cf91375643a@mail.gmail.com><3B1CDBEF-C870-4129-87B3-AD949E5DDAC9@earthlink.net><492073BC.6040109@opus40.org><4b65c2d70811161334t5fc4b8f7rba567e8caf3ba046@mail.gmail.com><4920AAA7.8000703@opus40.org><4b65c2d70811171105k2c542effp8a9bd78b632cf33b@mail.gmail.com><8CB17BC9A1BDD7F-C44-E16@webmail-me11.sysops.aol.com> <4b65c2d70811181010g6a17b519jdd8af595ebeef76e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <8CB19474B42D7F2-BB4-2C6@WEBMAIL-MZ01.sysops.aol.com> The Keats heuristic: Rhyme as reason in aphorism interpretation*1 ? Matthew S. McGlone,? and Jessica Tofighbakhsh ? Department of Psychology, Lafayette College, Easton, PA 18042, USA ? Published, 17 August 1999. ? Abstract Do people distinguish between the form and propositional content of a statement when evaluating its truthfulness? We asked people to judge the comprehensibility and ostensible accuracy of unfamiliar aphorisms presented in their original rhyming form (e.g., Woes unite foes) or a semantically equivalent non-rhyming form (Woes unite enemies). Although the different versions were perceived as equally comprehensible, the rhyming versions were perceived as more accurate. This ?rhyme as reason? effect suggests that in certain circumstances, people may base their judgments of a statement's truth value in part on its aesthetic qualities. Our results are consistent with models of persuasion which assume that people rely on heuristic cues to evaluate messages when they lack the evidence and/or motivation to scrutinize message content (e.g., Eagly and Chaiken, 1993). ? Copyright ? 1999 Published by Elsevier Science B.V. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081120/546437dc/attachment.html From jforjames at aol.com Thu Nov 20 12:22:20 2008 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames@aol.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:46 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Paterson critiques some aphorists... In-Reply-To: <8CB19474B42D7F2-BB4-2C6@WEBMAIL-MZ01.sysops.aol.com> References: <731bb17a0811160717q7f07a16dpfe7e1cf91375643a@mail.gmail.com><3B1CDBEF-C870-4129-87B3-AD949E5DDAC9@earthlink.net><492073BC.6040109@opus40.org><4b65c2d70811161334t5fc4b8f7rba567e8caf3ba046@mail.gmail.com><4920AAA7.8000703@opus40.org><4b65c2d70811171105k2c542effp8a9bd78b632cf33b@mail.gmail.com><8CB17BC9A1BDD7F-C44-E16@webmail-me11.sysops.aol.com><4b65c2d70811181010g6a17b519jdd8af595ebeef76e@mail.gmail.com> <8CB19474B42D7F2-BB4-2C6@WEBMAIL-MZ01.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <8CB194BADE5E592-1618-3B7@mblk-d31.sysops.aol.com> The aphorism is a brief waste of time. The poem is a complete waste of time. The novel is a monumental waste of time. http://www.poems.com/special_features/prose/essay_paterson.php Notes on a few aphorists: Canetti: he did not really understand the aphoristic form. In an intelligence like his, this should tell us something of the . . . obscurity of the skill. "Rarity" might imply it had a value. Chesterton: the only really great aphorist in English. Halifax is okay, but all the rest?Hazlitt and (curiously) Wilde excepted?are wits. The Anglophone embarrassment in regards to the unilateral assertion?which it cannot help thinking of as a subset of "wisdom literature"?began very early. This it sees as the sole preserve of the holy books; all other attempts at it are laughed away uncomfortably, on the grounds, ultimately, of their seedy human provenance. You would think such a culturally ingrained self-hatred would make the English ideal aphorists. However you can be overqualified for the task. Cocteau: he would have been the greatest, but he was far too happy. The dominant harmony and black dissonance supplied by heterosexual self-loathing are the only things I really miss in Barthes, too. Heraclitus: to read him for the first time is like digging a hundred knives from the ground, nearly all of them still gleaming. Kraus: too much spleen over sense, and Marx's fatal attraction for rhetorical chiasmus, which is always fake; only forms can be placed in such symmetries, never concepts. And=2 0to have affected Schopenhauer's and Nietzsche's misogyny, of all their attributes?and this in a genuine lover of women. Jab?s: a great writer, but as an aphorist a queer cocktail of rabbinical proverbialism, French blur, and poetic overstatement. Contrary to popular belief, there is nothing self-evident about the aphorism at all. Within the form, the axiom and the crazy assertion are the same waste of breath. La Bruyere: a lexicon of human prejudice. Still useful. La Rochefoucauld: in an old Penguin Classic edition of his work, a superbly bad-tempered back-cover blurb used him to demolish a stupid contemporary critic. Any writer who can be set so easily to his own defense still earns our respect. Leopardi: I wish we could suppress this adolescent habit of ours of automatically conferring genius upon even the latest of early deaths. Lichtenberg: German concision? He deserves even more credit than we give him. ? Nietszche: all his famous contradictions disappear as soon as you remember to read him as literature, which is not obliged to be coherent. Nevertheless, while I believe in an absolute separation in reading the life and the work, I find myself making a single, sentimental exception for lunacy in the philosophers, which still somehow discredits them. Pascal: more and more he reads like Confucius, i.e., an axiomatic redundancy. This probably pays him the highest compliment; every discipline needs its Euclid. Porchia: possibly the greatest, as almost no o ne has read him. St. Thomas Gospel: the Nazarene Cynic laid bare, but somehow St. Thomas still comes out of it better. Stevens: amateurism is generally a huge advantage to a poet, but this led him only to write the first half of his aphorisms. He omits the proof. For the true amateur the slightest literary obligation smacks of a journalistic deadline. Val?ry: if he has one fault, it is that you could always tell he composed his aphorisms horizontally. They taste a little too milky at times, a little too much of sleep. Cioran: something like Nagarjuna's Western reincarnation. The Buddha, let's remember, required our skepticism; Cioran, possibly alone amongst European writers, refined it to attain a kind of terrible, insomniac enlightenment. Like Borges, he managed to turn a European tongue against itself to approach ideas that (unlike Pali, say) it had no right to?and somehow contrive their ghostly appearance, like the animated figures in a zootrope. To read him openly as a Westerner is thus to be a little reprogrammed. No wonder that he is considered, in this age of the pseudoscience, no philosopher, and absent from almost all contemporary accounts of the subject. He wrote only in obsolete genres. By comparison, everything else seems to be already haunted by its own critical refutation, immediately backed into punctilious consistency, supporting references, and an irrefutable (i.e., wholly circular) systematism before it has even begun to articulate its position. Weil and Arendt's almost inadvertent dallia nces apart, women have so far found very little use for the aphorism, far and away the most troubling indictment we can serve against any form. ? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081120/39c57455/attachment.html From cheriewalsh at gmail.com Thu Nov 20 12:25:10 2008 From: cheriewalsh at gmail.com (Cherie Walsh) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:47 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Doty takes Nat'l Book Award In-Reply-To: References: <8CB193113FEE316-EB4-83@mblk-d30.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <5e88ffba0811200925p63272075s3d91bd1ee8834b77@mail.gmail.com> I have loved Doty since Atlantis, have seen him read several times. I saw him this fall at the Folger Shakespeare Library, and I must say that the strongest poems he read were the ones typed on 8 1/2 x 11 paper--I like the current book very much and think, though, his best might be yet to come! Cherie Walsh On Thu, Nov 20, 2008 at 11:37 AM, Suzanne Burns wrote: > Awwwwwweesome! :-) I love that boo, and in my opinion Doty is one of the > best poets pushing a pen out there. > > Suzanne > > > > On Thu, Nov 20, 2008 at 9:11 AM, wrote: >> >> http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/headline/features/6122218.html >> >> The poetry prize went to University of Houston professor Mark Doty for >> Fire to Fire: New and Selected Poems (HarperCollins), while the fiction >> award went to 81-year-old Peter Matthiessen for Shadow Country (Modern >> Library). >> >> http://www.nationalbook.org/ >> ________________________________ >> Traveling over the river or through the woods this holiday season? Get the >> MapQuest Toolbar. Directions, Traffic, Gas Prices & More! >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Thu Nov 20 13:14:43 2008 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:47 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Ted Kooser Message-ID: <4b65c2d70811201014k63271d78k77a66446130290c5@mail.gmail.com> Pleasantly surprised. I woke up this morning with a strange dream in my eyes. My father brought me to a place where there was only splintered rock, a Cubist gray on gray layering of geometrical forms, and on top of the hill thus made, a cabin. And now I receive this poem. American Life in Poetry: Column 191 BY TED KOOSER, U.S. POET LAUREATE, 2004-2006 *Robert Wrigley* *Finding a Bible in an Abandoned Cabin * Under dust plush as a moth's wing, the book's leather cover still darkly shown, and everywhere else but this spot was sodden beneath the roof's unraveling shingles. There was that back-of-the-neck lick of chill and then, from my index finger, the book opened like a blasted bird. In its box of familiar and miraculous inks, a construction of filaments and dust, thoroughfares of worms, and a silage of silverfish husks: in the autumn light, eight hundred pages of perfect wordless lace. American Life in Poetry is made possible by The Poetry Foundation (www.poetryfoundation.org), publisher of Poetry magazine. It is also supported by the Department of English at the University of Nebraska-Lincoln. Poem copyright (c) 2007 by Robert Wrigley, whose most recent book of poetry is "Earthly Meditations: New and Selected Poems," Penguin, 2006. Poem reprinted from "The Hudson Review," Vol. LIX, no. 4, Winter, 2007, by permission of Robert Wrigley. Introduction copyright (c) 2008 by The Poetry Foundation. The introduction's author, Ted Kooser, served as United States Poet Laureate Consultant in Poetry to the Library of Congress from 2004-2006. We do not accept unsolicited manuscripts. ****************************** American Life in Poetry provides newspapers and online publications with a free weekly column featuring contemporary American poems. The sole mission of this project is to promote poetry: American Life in Poetry seeks to create a vigorous presence for poetry in our culture. There are no costs for reprinting the columns; we do require that you register your publication here and that the text of the column be reproduced without alteration. -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081120/44ea5497/attachment.html From rewatlingjr at comcast.net Thu Nov 20 13:41:18 2008 From: rewatlingjr at comcast.net (robert e. watling jr.) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:47 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Ted Kooser In-Reply-To: <4b65c2d70811201014k63271d78k77a66446130290c5@mail.gmail.com> References: <4b65c2d70811201014k63271d78k77a66446130290c5@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 20 Nov 2008 10:14:43 -0800, Anny Ballardini wrote: > American Life in Poetry: Column 191 > > BY TED KOOSER, U.S. POET LAUREATE, 2004-2006 This was nice wasn't it? It plays into a couple of fixations of mine. I can't pass an abandoned house without at least thinking about what's inside. An open door is an invitation, one I've accepted on a couple of occasions. I'll tell sometime...rob. -- "Cogito ergo...how does that go again?"...rewjr. From jbalizsprince at googlemail.com Thu Nov 20 14:32:02 2008 From: jbalizsprince at googlemail.com (Judy Prince) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:47 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Paterson critiques some aphorists... In-Reply-To: <8CB194BADE5E592-1618-3B7@mblk-d31.sysops.aol.com> References: <731bb17a0811160717q7f07a16dpfe7e1cf91375643a@mail.gmail.com> <3B1CDBEF-C870-4129-87B3-AD949E5DDAC9@earthlink.net> <492073BC.6040109@opus40.org> <4b65c2d70811161334t5fc4b8f7rba567e8caf3ba046@mail.gmail.com> <4920AAA7.8000703@opus40.org> <4b65c2d70811171105k2c542effp8a9bd78b632cf33b@mail.gmail.com> <8CB17BC9A1BDD7F-C44-E16@webmail-me11.sysops.aol.com> <4b65c2d70811181010g6a17b519jdd8af595ebeef76e@mail.gmail.com> <8CB19474B42D7F2-BB4-2C6@WEBMAIL-MZ01.sysops.aol.com> <8CB194BADE5E592-1618-3B7@mblk-d31.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <7db1d01b0811201132o642752d6h895e00970b8621a9@mail.gmail.com> Don Paterson, yet a nother Scottish poet ya gotta love. Judy with thanks for sending this url. James On 20/11/2008, jforjames@aol.com wrote: > > The aphorism is a *brief* waste of time. The poem is a *complete* waste of > time. The novel is a *monumental* waste of time. > http://www.poems.com/special_features/prose/essay_paterson.php > > Notes on a few aphorists: > Canetti: he did not really understand the aphoristic form. In an > intelligence like his, this should tell us something of the . . . obscurity > of the skill. "Rarity" might imply it had a value. > Chesterton: the only really great aphorist in English. Halifax is okay, but > all the rest?Hazlitt and (curiously) Wilde excepted?are *wits*. The > Anglophone embarrassment in regards to the unilateral ass ertion?which it > cannot help thinking of as a subset of "wisdom literature"?began very early. > This it sees as the sole preserve of the holy books; all other attempts at > it are laughed away uncomfortably, on the grounds, ultimately, of their > seedy human provenance. You would think such a culturally ingrained > self-hatred would make the English ideal aphorists. However you can be > overqualified for the task. > Cocteau: he would have been the greatest, but he was far too happy. The > dominant harmony and black dissonance supplied by heterosexual self-loathing > are the only things I really miss in Barthes, too. > Heraclitus: to read him for the first time is like digging a hundred knives > from the ground, nearly all of them still gleaming. > Kraus: too much spleen over sense, and Marx's fatal attraction for > rhetorical chiasmus, which is always fake; only forms can be placed in > such=2 0symmetries, never concepts. And to have affected Schopenhauer's and > Nietzsche's *misogyny*, of all their attributes?and this in a genuine > lover of women. > Jab?s: a great *writer*, but as an aphorist a queer cocktail of rabbinical > proverbialism, French blur, and poetic overstatement. Contrary to popular > belief, there is nothing *self-evident* about the aphorism at all. Within > the form, the axiom and the crazy assertion are the same waste of breath. > La Bruyere: a lexicon of human prejudice. Still useful. > La Rochefoucauld: in an old Penguin Classic edition of his work, a superbly > bad-tempered back-cover blurb used him to demolish a stupid contemporary > critic. Any writer who can be set so easily to his own defense still earns > our respect. > Leopardi: I wish we could suppress this adolescent habit of ours of > automatically conferring genius upon even the latest of early deaths. > Lichtenberg: German *concision?* He deserves even more credit than we give > him. > > Nietszche: all his famous contradictions disappear as soon as you remember > to read him as *literature*, which is not obliged to be coherent. > Nevertheless, while I believe in an absolute separation in reading the life > and the work, I find myself making a single, sentimental exception for > lunacy in the philosophers, which still somehow discredits them. > Pascal: more and more he reads like Confucius, i.e., an axiomatic > redundancy. This probably pays him the highest compliment; every discipline > needs its Euclid. > Porchia: possibly the greatest, as almost no one has read him. > St. Thomas Gospel: the Nazarene Cynic laid bare, but somehow St. Thomas > still comes out of it better. > Stevens: amateurism is generally a huge advantage to a poet, but this led > him only to write the first half of his aphorisms. He omits the *proof*. > For the true amateur the slightest literary obligation smacks of a > journalistic deadline. > Val?ry: if he has one fault, it is that you could always tell he composed > his aphorisms horizontally. They taste a little too milky at times, a little > too much of sleep. > Cioran: something like Nagarjuna's Western reincarnation. The Buddha, let's > remember, *required* our skepticism; Cioran, possibly alone amongst > European writers, refined it to attain a kind of terrible, insomniac > enlightenment. Like Borges, he managed to turn a European tongue against > itself to approach ideas that (unlike Pali, say) it had no right to?and > somehow contrive their ghostly appearance, like the animated figures in a > zootrope. To read him openly as a Westerner is thus to be a little > reprogrammed. No wonder that he is considered, in this age of the > pseudoscience, no philosopher, and absent from almost all contemporary > accounts of the subject. He wrote only in obsolete genres. By comparison, > everything else seems to be already haunted by its own critical refutation, > immediately backed into punctilious consistency, supporting references, and > an irrefutable (i.e., wholly circular) systematism before it has even begun > to articulate its position. > Weil and Arendt's almost inadvertent dalliances apart, women have so far > found very little use for the aphorism, far and away the most troubling > indictment we can serve against *any* form. > ? > > ------------------------------ > Traveling over the river or through the woods this holiday season? Get the > MapQuest Toolbar. > Directions, Traffic, Gas Prices & More! > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081120/b33546c7/attachment.html From chris.lott at gmail.com Thu Nov 20 19:23:25 2008 From: chris.lott at gmail.com (Chris Lott) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:47 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetry Mags visual poetry Message-ID: <9b1b9dab0811201623g3709f32apaa01664166eb0c3b@mail.gmail.com> I finally got a look at Poetry's recent visual poetry section. Most of the pieces left me underwhelmed, but I'm the wrong person to judge such things. I'm happy to see Poetry changing things up, but would put any number of Bob's pieces (the ones I've seen, anyway) against most of these! c -- Chris Lott From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Thu Nov 20 19:38:55 2008 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:47 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: New-Poetry Digest, Vol 53, Issue 33 In-Reply-To: <457695.14522.qm@web35502.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <457695.14522.qm@web35502.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4926031F.6080307@nut-n-but.net> Alexander Dickow wrote: > David wrote: "No masterpieces > by Richard Wilbur, Philip Levine, Seamus Heaney, Elizabeth Bishop?" > > Hm, let me see here... > ...nope. > Amicalement, > Alex > Ah, but would you say none of these poets wrote a poem as good as the ones Paglia included by living poets, Alex? --Bob From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Thu Nov 20 19:42:41 2008 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:47 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetry Mags visual poetry In-Reply-To: <9b1b9dab0811201623g3709f32apaa01664166eb0c3b@mail.gmail.com> References: <9b1b9dab0811201623g3709f32apaa01664166eb0c3b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <49260401.20904@nut-n-but.net> Chris Lott wrote: > I finally got a look at Poetry's recent visual poetry section. Most of > the pieces left me underwhelmed, but I'm the wrong person to judge > such things. I'm happy to see Poetry changing things up, but would put > any number of Bob's pieces (the ones I've seen, anyway) against most > of these! > > c > -- > Chris Lott Finally, intelligent posts appearing at New-Poetry! (Thanks, Chris.) --Bob From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Fri Nov 21 12:57:47 2008 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:47 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Happy Birthday, Voltaire! Message-ID: <4b65c2d70811210957w46fed399oc01840f1f26ca30f@mail.gmail.com> >From the Writer's Almanac: It's the birthday of *Voltaire *, (books by this author) the man who helped spark the Enlightenment in France, born Fran?ois-Marie Arouet in Paris (1694). He was a well-known playwright and poet. He spent most of his late life in exile, and he wrote most of his work from England. In the last year of his life, 1778, he was allowed to return home to Paris. More than 300 people came to visit him his first day in the city, including Benjamin Franklin. Voltaire wrote, "God is a comedian, playing to an audience too afraid to laugh." And, "To succeed in the world it is not enough to be stupid, you must also be well-mannered." And, "Let us read and let us dance ... two amusements that will never do any harm to the world." -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081121/b64f308a/attachment.html From cervantes.james at gmail.com Fri Nov 21 13:15:30 2008 From: cervantes.james at gmail.com (James Cervantes) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:47 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Happy Birthday, Voltaire! In-Reply-To: <4b65c2d70811210957w46fed399oc01840f1f26ca30f@mail.gmail.com> References: <4b65c2d70811210957w46fed399oc01840f1f26ca30f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <648208b60811211015p3b7e250eu954bab0d03bff4e8@mail.gmail.com> Do we (U.S./North America) have a Voltaire? Or did one sneak by us unnoticed? No "Enlightenment" after Twain, that's for sure. - Jim On Fri, Nov 21, 2008 at 10:57 AM, Anny Ballardini wrote: > >From the Writer's Almanac: > > It's the birthday of *Voltaire > *, (books by this author) > the man who helped spark the Enlightenment in France, born Fran?ois-Marie > Arouet in Paris (1694). He was a well-known playwright and poet. He spent > most of his late life in exile, and he wrote most of his work from England. > In the last year of his life, 1778, he was allowed to return home to Paris. > More than 300 people came to visit him his first day in the city, including > Benjamin Franklin. > > Voltaire wrote, "God is a comedian, playing to an audience too afraid to > laugh." > > And, "To succeed in the world it is not enough to be stupid, you must also > be well-mannered." > > And, "Let us read and let us dance ... two amusements that will never do > any harm to the world." > > > > > -- > Anny Ballardini > http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ > http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome > http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html > I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing > star! > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081121/6f20d7a4/attachment.html From halvard at earthlink.net Fri Nov 21 13:33:14 2008 From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:47 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Happy Birthday, Voltaire! In-Reply-To: <648208b60811211015p3b7e250eu954bab0d03bff4e8@mail.gmail.com> References: <4b65c2d70811210957w46fed399oc01840f1f26ca30f@mail.gmail.com> <648208b60811211015p3b7e250eu954bab0d03bff4e8@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <9C5FFBC0-A3B8-4181-9C3A-587FFA19A2A1@earthlink.net> We went straight from Voltaire to voltmeters. Hal "Imagination is more important than knowledge." --Albert Einstein Halvard Johnson ================ halvard@earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html On Nov 21, 2008, at 12:15 PM, James Cervantes wrote: > Do we (U.S./North America) have a Voltaire? Or did one sneak by us > unnoticed? No "Enlightenment" after Twain, that's for sure. > > - Jim > > On Fri, Nov 21, 2008 at 10:57 AM, Anny Ballardini > wrote: > >From the Writer's Almanac: > > It's the birthday of Voltaire, (books by this author) the man who > helped spark the Enlightenment in France, born Fran?ois-Marie Arouet > in Paris (1694). He was a well-known playwright and poet. He spent > most of his late life in exile, and he wrote most of his work from > England. In the last year of his life, 1778, he was allowed to > return home to Paris. More than 300 people came to visit him his > first day in the city, including Benjamin Franklin. > > Voltaire wrote, "God is a comedian, playing to an audience too > afraid to laugh." > > And, "To succeed in the world it is not enough to be stupid, you > must also be well-mannered." > > And, "Let us read and let us dance ... two amusements that will > never do any harm to the world." > > > > > > -- > Anny Ballardini > http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ > http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome > http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html > I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a > dancing star! > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081121/3675fc15/attachment.html From alexdickow9 at yahoo.com Fri Nov 21 14:48:35 2008 From: alexdickow9 at yahoo.com (Alexander Dickow) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:47 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Dickow Poetry reading in Paris, France... In-Reply-To: <200811211700.mALH03nK010935@wiz.cath.vt.edu> Message-ID: <280244.45354.qm@web35505.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Alexander Dickow will read selections from _Caramboles_ and other poems in French and English at 7:30pm Wednesday, November 26th, 2008 at the Ecole Normale Superieure a Paris (metro Cluny la Sorbonne ou Maubert Mutualite) 45 rue d'Ulm, in the Salle des Actes concert hall. Come join me, friends, readers, strangers! Books and refreshments will be available. *** Alexander Dickow lira des selections de son livre _Caramboles_ et d'autres poemes en anglais et en francais a 19h30 le mercredi, 26 novembre 2008 a l'Ecole Normale Superieure a Paris (metro Cluny la Sorbonne or Maubert Mutualite) 45 rue d'Ulm, en Salle des Actes. Entree libre. Amis, lecteurs, inconnus, venez nombreux! From jbalizsprince at googlemail.com Fri Nov 21 15:32:17 2008 From: jbalizsprince at googlemail.com (Judy Prince) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:47 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Dickow Poetry reading in Paris, France... In-Reply-To: <280244.45354.qm@web35505.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <200811211700.mALH03nK010935@wiz.cath.vt.edu> <280244.45354.qm@web35505.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <7db1d01b0811211232o14c7b524xf7145bd02836a2b1@mail.gmail.com> Much success, Alex! "What imperilous tantrum darlings" you'll be reading to, and prolly in a concert-kind of "snarling" library. Do tell us how the reading and darlings went....and whether you'll be in Paris in March [a dear friend and I may be there then]. All the best, Judy 2008/11/21 Alexander Dickow > Alexander Dickow will read selections from _Caramboles_ and other poems in > French and English > at 7:30pm > Wednesday, November 26th, 2008 > at the Ecole Normale Superieure a Paris > (metro Cluny la Sorbonne ou Maubert Mutualite) > 45 rue d'Ulm, > in the Salle des Actes concert hall. > > Come join me, friends, readers, strangers! > Books and refreshments will be available. > > *** > > Alexander Dickow lira des selections de son livre _Caramboles_ et d'autres > poemes en anglais et en francais > a 19h30 > le mercredi, 26 novembre 2008 > a l'Ecole Normale Superieure a Paris > (metro Cluny la Sorbonne or Maubert Mutualite) > 45 rue d'Ulm, > en Salle des Actes. > > Entree libre. > Amis, lecteurs, inconnus, venez nombreux! > > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081121/6b920e18/attachment.html From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Fri Nov 21 16:25:33 2008 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:47 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Clinton Message-ID: <4b65c2d70811211325q7f83259btd4d2118ea42b4ecd@mail.gmail.com> Secretary of State: http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/22/us/politics/22obama.html?_r=1&hp -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081121/dbc55f51/attachment.html From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Fri Nov 21 16:33:23 2008 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:47 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Happy Birthday, Voltaire! In-Reply-To: <648208b60811211015p3b7e250eu954bab0d03bff4e8@mail.gmail.com> References: <4b65c2d70811210957w46fed399oc01840f1f26ca30f@mail.gmail.com> <648208b60811211015p3b7e250eu954bab0d03bff4e8@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <49272923.6040104@nut-n-but.net> Mencken? From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Fri Nov 21 17:19:39 2008 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:47 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Dickow Poetry reading in Paris, France... In-Reply-To: <280244.45354.qm@web35505.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <280244.45354.qm@web35505.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <492733FB.9010901@nut-n-but.net> Something about doing a reading at an ecole sounds really impressive, Alex. Anyway, good luck! From jforjames at aol.com Fri Nov 21 17:45:48 2008 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames@aol.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:48 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Ani DiFranco, songs and poetry Message-ID: <8CB1A42083065C2-145C-3C1@WEBMAIL-MY24.sysops.aol.com> http://www.courant.com/entertainment/music/reviews/events/hc-sounddifranco.artnov20,0,2543656.story "Making the book was not so much liberating as terrifying," she says. "You know, I'm a performer by nature. That's my bread and butter, and that's my job. So when I write, I always intend to bring the work on to stage. I'm sort of making fuel for my performances. To put these songs that live in the air onto a page was weird. I was sort of afraid that everyone would look at them and go, 'Wow, this sucks.'" -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081121/2c5179c5/attachment.html From alexdickow9 at yahoo.com Sat Nov 22 14:50:21 2008 From: alexdickow9 at yahoo.com (Alexander Dickow) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:48 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: New-Poetry Digest, Vol 53, Issue 39 In-Reply-To: <200811221700.mAMH03nK004988@wiz.cath.vt.edu> Message-ID: <835482.54462.qm@web35502.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Thank you, Bob and Judy! I appreciate it, and will try to make sure the human beings don't get too rambunctious. But I can't guarantee that the same goes for the words... :) Amicalement, Alex From jforjames at aol.com Sun Nov 23 09:50:49 2008 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames@aol.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:48 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Heffernan in the Ozarks Message-ID: <8CB1B920217F7EA-5B8-7B@WEBMAIL-DY14.sysops.aol.com> http://nwanews.com/nwat/Living/71422/ Near the tail end of the Great Depression, Heffernan was born in Detroit in a working-class neighborhood that was a model of the term "Melting Pot. "He grew up just blocks from the Detroit River and very close to Canada. Heffernan often dreams of border crossings. Dreams are frequently a source of his poetic inspiration. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081123/9da123c5/attachment.html From almaginnes at aol.com Sun Nov 23 11:10:19 2008 From: almaginnes at aol.com (almaginnes@aol.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:48 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Heffernan in the Ozarks In-Reply-To: <8CB1B920217F7EA-5B8-7B@WEBMAIL-DY14.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CB1B920217F7EA-5B8-7B@WEBMAIL-DY14.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <8CB1B9D1D921F27-1378-20D9@WEBMAIL-DY05.sysops.aol.com> Michael Heffernan was a professor of mine in graudate school. A great guy and terrific poet. -----Original Message----- From: jforjames@aol.com To: new-poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Sun, 23 Nov 2008 9:50 am Subject: [New-Poetry] Heffernan in the Ozarks http://nwanews.com/nwat/Living/71422/ Near the tail end of the Great Depression, Heffernan was born in Detroit in a working-class neighborhood that was a model of the term "Melting Pot. "He grew up just blocks from the Detroit River and very close to Canada. Heffernan often dreams of border crossings. Dreams are frequently a source of his poetic inspiration. ? Traveling over the river or through the woods this holiday season? Get the MapQuest Toolbar. Directions, Traffic, Gas Prices & More! _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081123/882c3e0e/attachment.html From JforJames at aol.com Sun Nov 23 11:51:52 2008 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames@aol.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:48 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: Poem of the Week- Bruce Beasley Message-ID: Skipped content of type multipart/alternative-------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: "PoemoftheWeek.org" Subject: Poem of the Week- Bruce Beasley Date: Sat, 22 Nov 2008 16:03:01 -0600 Size: 122245 Url: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081123/785aaee9/attachment.mht From JforJames at aol.com Sun Nov 23 12:31:24 2008 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames@aol.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:48 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Dickow Poetry reading in Paris, France... Message-ID: The Night We Never Spent in Paris The windows darkened at day?s end, the shadows of spires lanced down upon the square, the stonework went dead gray and streetlights shimmered just under the surface of the Seine, disturbed only by the surge and wake of an occasional barge. All the bells rang out at their appointed hours as traffic hissed in the drizzle, until the honking died away toward midnight when the clock in our hotel room flashed 00:00. But we weren?t there, nor were we walking the streets hand in hand, coming down a steep set of stairs from Sacr? Coeur, and we weren?t finishing a bottle of white, laughing and crying by turns, then hailing a cab as we stumbled and veered, each claiming to be holding the other up. The room at our hotel on Rue Guy Lussac remained empty, the stuffed chair, a writing table, the folded towels hanging on a ornate chrome rack in the bathroom, a wrapped bar of perfumed soap, the perfectly made bed. In a few hours the bakeries would begin to deliver warm baguettes, the cobblestones spangled with scales in front of the fish market, the last caf? would lock its glass doors, the chairs having climbed atop the tables, and still there would be no sign us. From the lighted Tour Eiffel to the dark reaches of the Bois de Boulogne, from L?Arc de Triomphe to Notre Dame herself, and all throughout the metro streaming in its lighted tunnels underneath every arrondissement of Paris, no one would see us, and no one would miss us. Nor would we ask in our scornful French any passer-by for directions. For if we were at-large or lost in this world, it is as much to say that we were in love. At our hotel the sunlight was beginning to fill the windows until the curtains almost caught fire with morning light, but still we did not waken because we were not there, the small bed unrumpled by the sprawl and tangle of two bodies. **************One site has it all. Your email accounts, your social networks, and the things you love. Try the new AOL.com today!(http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1212962939x1200825291/aol?redir=http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp %26icid=aolcom40vanity%26ncid=emlcntaolcom00000001) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081123/1a438eac/attachment.html From amyhappens at yahoo.com Sun Nov 23 13:43:52 2008 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:48 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Dickow Poetry reading in Paris, France... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <538442.40054.qm@web83306.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> This is exactly what didn't happen to me in Paris! _______ Recent work http://www.writing.upenn.edu/pennsound/x/King.html Amy's Alias http://amyking.org/ --- On Sun, 11/23/08, JforJames@aol.com wrote: From: JforJames@aol.com Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Dickow Poetry reading in Paris, France... To: new-poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu Date: Sunday, November 23, 2008, 12:31 PM The Night We Never Spent in Paris ? ? The windows darkened at day?s end, the shadows of spires lanced down upon the square, the stonework went dead gray and streetlights shimmered just under the surface of the Seine, disturbed only by the surge and wake of an occasional barge. All the bells rang out at their appointed hours as traffic hissed in the drizzle, until the honking died away toward midnight when the clock in our hotel room flashed 00:00. ????But we weren?t there, nor were we walking the streets hand in hand, coming down a steep set of stairs from Sacr? Coeur, and we weren?t finishing a bottle of white, laughing and crying by turns, then hailing a cab as we stumbled and veered, each claiming to be holding the other up. The room at our hotel on Rue Guy Lussac remained empty, the stuffed chair, a writing table, the folded towels hanging on a ornate chrome rack in the bathroom, a wrapped bar of perfumed soap, the perfectly made bed.? ????In a few hours the bakeries would begin to deliver warm baguettes, the cobblestones spangled with scales in front of the fish market, the last caf? would lock its glass doors, the chairs having climbed atop the tables, and still there would be no sign us. From the lighted Tour Eiffel to the dark reaches of the Bois de Boulogne, from L?Arc de Triomphe to Notre Dame herself, and all throughout the metro streaming in its lighted tunnels underneath every arrondissement of Paris, no one would see us, and no one would miss us. ????Nor would we ask in our scornful French any passer-by? for directions. For if we were at-large or lost in this world, it is as much to say that we were in love.? ????At our hotel the sunlight was beginning to fill the windows until the curtains almost caught fire with morning light, but still we did not waken because we were not there, the small bed unrumpled by the sprawl and tangle of two bodies. One site has it all. Your email accounts, your social networks, and the things you love. Try the new AOL.com today!_______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081123/69249d3f/attachment.html From alexdickow9 at yahoo.com Sun Nov 23 15:30:20 2008 From: alexdickow9 at yahoo.com (Alexander Dickow) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:48 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] paris poem In-Reply-To: <200811231700.mANH04nK026076@wiz.cath.vt.edu> Message-ID: <39393.24371.qm@web35504.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Jim, Is that yours? Is that *for me*?? Gee, thanks (blush) -- Amicalement, Alex www.alexdickow.net/blog/ ? les mots! ah quel d?sert ? la fin merveilleux. -- Henri Droguet --- On Sun, 11/23/08, new-poetry-request@wiz.cath.vt.edu wrote: > From: new-poetry-request@wiz.cath.vt.edu > Subject: New-Poetry Digest, Vol 53, Issue 41 > To: new-poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > Date: Sunday, November 23, 2008, 9:00 AM > Send New-Poetry mailing list submissions to > new-poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > or, via email, send a message with subject or body > 'help' to > new-poetry-request@wiz.cath.vt.edu > > You can reach the person managing the list at > new-poetry-owner@wiz.cath.vt.edu > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more > specific > than "Re: Contents of New-Poetry digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: Dickow Poetry reading in Paris, France... > (JforJames@aol.com) > 2. Re: Dickow Poetry reading in Paris, France... (amy > king) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Sun, 23 Nov 2008 12:31:24 EST > From: JforJames@aol.com > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Dickow Poetry reading in Paris, > France... > To: new-poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > The Night We Never Spent in Paris > > > The windows darkened at day???s end, > the shadows of spires lanced down upon > the square, the stonework went dead gray > and streetlights shimmered just under the surface > of the Seine, disturbed only by the surge and wake > of an occasional barge. All the bells rang out at their > appointed hours as traffic hissed in the drizzle, > until the honking died away toward midnight > when the clock in our hotel room flashed 00:00. > But we weren???t there, nor were we walking > the streets hand in hand, coming down a steep set of stairs > > from Sacr?? Coeur, and we weren???t finishing > a bottle of white, laughing and crying by turns, > then hailing a cab as we stumbled and veered, > each claiming to be holding the other up. The room > at our hotel on Rue Guy Lussac remained empty, > the stuffed chair, a writing table, the folded towels > hanging on a ornate chrome rack in the bathroom, > a wrapped bar of perfumed soap, the perfectly made bed. > In a few hours the bakeries > would begin to deliver warm baguettes, > the cobblestones spangled with scales > in front of the fish market, the last caf?? would lock > its glass doors, the chairs having climbed atop the > tables, > and still there would be no sign us. From the lighted > Tour Eiffel to the dark reaches of the Bois de Boulogne, > from L???Arc de Triomphe to Notre Dame herself, > and all throughout the metro streaming in its lighted > tunnels > underneath every arrondissement of Paris, > no one would see us, and no one would miss us. > Nor would we ask in our scornful French any passer-by > for directions. For if we were at-large or lost in this > world, > it is as much to say that we were in love. > At our hotel the sunlight was beginning to fill > the windows until the curtains almost caught fire > with morning light, but still we did not waken > because we were not there, the small bed unrumpled > by the sprawl and tangle of two bodies. > > **************One site has it all. Your email accounts, > your social networks, > and the things you love. Try the new AOL.com > today!(http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1212962939x1200825291/aol?redir=http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp > %26icid=aolcom40vanity%26ncid=emlcntaolcom00000001) > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081123/1a438eac/attachment-0001.html > From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Sun Nov 23 16:13:06 2008 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:49 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Dickow Poetry reading in Paris, France... In-Reply-To: <538442.40054.qm@web83306.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: <538442.40054.qm@web83306.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4b65c2d70811231313j78bf4e9duaa4484027e247495@mail.gmail.com> That's a wonderful poem! Here's to James' Paris! On Sun, Nov 23, 2008 at 7:43 PM, amy king wrote: > This is exactly what didn't happen to me in Paris! > > _______ > > > Recent work > http://www.writing.upenn.edu/pennsound/x/King.html > > Amy's Alias > http://amyking.org/ > > --- On *Sun, 11/23/08, JforJames@aol.com * wrote: > > From: JforJames@aol.com > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Dickow Poetry reading in Paris, France... > To: new-poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > Date: Sunday, November 23, 2008, 12:31 PM > > > The Night We Never Spent in Paris > > > The windows darkened at day's end, > the shadows of spires lanced down upon > the square, the stonework went dead gray > and streetlights shimmered just under the surface > of the Seine, disturbed only by the surge and wake > of an occasional barge. All the bells rang out at their > appointed hours as traffic hissed in the drizzle, > until the honking died away toward midnight > when the clock in our hotel room flashed 00:00. > But we weren't there, nor were we walking > the streets hand in hand, coming down a steep set of stairs > from Sacr? Coeur, and we weren't finishing > a bottle of white, laughing and crying by turns, > then hailing a cab as we stumbled and veered, > each claiming to be holding the other up. The room > at our hotel on Rue Guy Lussac remained empty, > the stuffed chair, a writing table, the folded towels > hanging on a ornate chrome rack in the bathroom, > a wrapped bar of perfumed soap, the perfectly made bed. > In a few hours the bakeries > would begin to deliver warm baguettes, > the cobblestones spangled with scales > in front of the fish market, the last caf? would lock > its glass doors, the chairs having climbed atop the tables, > and still there would be no sign us. From the lighted > Tour Eiffel to the dark reaches of the Bois de Boulogne, > from L'Arc de Triomphe to Notre Dame herself, > and all throughout the metro streaming in its lighted tunnels > underneath every arrondissement of Paris, > no one would see us, and no one would miss us. > Nor would we ask in our scornful French any passer-by > for directions. For if we were at-large or lost in this world, > it is as much to say that we were in love. > At our hotel the sunlight was beginning to fill > the windows until the curtains almost caught fire > with morning light, but still we did not waken > because we were not there, the small bed unrumpled > by the sprawl and tangle of two bodies. > > > > ------------------------------ > *One site has it all.* Your email accounts, your social networks, and the > things you love. *Try the new AOL.comtoday! > * > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081123/e1544267/attachment.html From jforjames at aol.com Mon Nov 24 09:23:21 2008 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames@aol.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:49 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] paris poem In-Reply-To: <39393.24371.qm@web35504.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <8CB1C5752650A08-1B8-802@WEBMAIL-MC13.sysops.aol.com> Alex, break a leg at your reading. I was hoping to spark a few more poems from others related to the City of Lights. I tried to dig up one I read years ago by Ricardo Pau-Llosa called? "Paris Inundated." But the book seems lost. Anyone else have Paris poems? Richard Howard has?long poem in which he imagines meeting Wallace Stevens (a Francophile who never traveled to France or really anywhere farther than Key West) in Paris. Stevens being in city?kind of on the down low. I think I have an excerpt of that poem?on my?hard?drive?somewhere. I'll post it?if I can dredge it up. Also I've got a personal favorite to post, "The Red Coal." Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: Alexander Dickow To: new-poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Sun, 23 Nov 2008 3:30 pm Subject: [New-Poetry] paris poem Jim, s that yours? Is that *for me*?? Gee, thanks (blush) -- micalement, lex www.alexdickow.net/blog/ ? les mots! ah quel d?sert ? la fin merveilleux. -- enri Droguet -- On Sun, 11/23/08, new-poetry-request@wiz.cath.vt.edu rote: > From: new-poetry-request@wiz.cath.vt.edu Subject: New-Poetry Digest, Vol 53, Issue 41 To: new-poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu Date: Sunday, November 23, 2008, 9:00 AM Send New-Poetry mailing list submissions to new-poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to new-poetry-request@wiz.cath.vt.edu You can reach the person managing the list at new-poetry-owner@wiz.cath.vt.edu When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of New-Poetry digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: Dickow Poetry reading in Paris, France... (JforJames@aol.com) 2. Re: Dickow Poetry reading in Paris, France... (amy king) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Sun, 23 Nov 2008 12:31:24 EST From: JforJames@aol.com Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Dickow Poetry reading in Paris, France... To: new-poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" The Night We Never Spent in Paris The windows darkened at day???s end, the shadows of spires lanced down upon the square, the stonework went dead gray and streetlights shimmered just under the surface of the Seine, disturbed only by the surge and wake of an occasional barge. All the bells rang out at their appointed hours as traffic hissed in the drizzle, until the honking died away toward midnight when the clock in our hotel room flashed 00:00. But we weren???t there, nor were we walking the streets hand in hand, coming down a steep set of stairs from Sacr?? Coeur, and we weren???t fi nishing a bottle of white, laughing and crying by turns, then hailing a cab as we stumbled and veered, each claiming to be holding the other up. The room at our hotel on Rue Guy Lussac remained empty, the stuffed chair, a writing table, the folded towels hanging on a ornate chrome rack in the bathroom, a wrapped bar of perfumed soap, the perfectly made bed. In a few hours the bakeries would begin to deliver warm baguettes, the cobblestones spangled with scales in front of the fish market, the last caf?? would lock its glass doors, the chairs having climbed atop the tables, and still there would be no sign us. From the lighted Tour Eiffel to the dark reaches of the Bois de Boulogne, from L???Arc de Triomphe to Notre Dame herself, and all throughout the metro streaming in its lighted tunnels underneath every arrondissement of Paris, no one would see us, and no one would miss us. Nor would we ask in our scornful French any passer-by for directions. For if we were at-large or lost in this world, it is as much to say that we were in love. At our hotel the sunlight was beginning to fill the windows until the curtains almost caught fire with morning light, but still we did not waken because we were not there, the small bed unrumpled by the sprawl and tangle of two bodies. **************One site has it all. Your email accounts, your social networks, and the things you love. Try the new AOL.com today!(http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1212962939x1200825291/aol?redir=http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp %26icid=aolcom40vanity%26ncid=emlcntaolcom00000001) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081123/1a438eac/attachment-0001.html ______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081124/452137e3/attachment.html From jforjames at aol.com Mon Nov 24 09:25:17 2008 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames@aol.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:49 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] paris poem In-Reply-To: <39393.24371.qm@web35504.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <8CB1C579BA48A59-1B8-827@WEBMAIL-MC13.sysops.aol.com> The Red Coal Sometimes I sit in my blue chair trying to remember what it was like in the spring of 1950 before the burning coal entered my life. I study my red hand under the faucet, the left one below the grease line consisting of four feminine angels and one crooked broken masculine one and the right one lying on top of the white porcelain with skin wrinkled up like a chicken?s beside the razor and the silver tap. I didn?t live in Paris for nothing and walk with Jack Gilbert down the wide sidewalks thinking of Hart Crane and Apollinaire and I didn?t save the picture of the two of us moving? through a crowd of stiff Frenchmen and put it beside the one of Pound and Williams unless I wanted to see what coals had done to their lives too. I say it with vast affection, wanting desperately to know what the two of them talked about when they lived in Pennsylvania and what they talked about at St. Elizabeth?s fifty years later, looking into the sun, 40,000 wrinkles between them, the suffering finally taking over their lives. I think of Gilbert all the time now, what we said on our long walks in Pittsburgh, how lucky we were to live in New York, how strange his great fame was and my obscurity, how we now carry the future with us, knowing every small vein and every elaboration. The coal has taken over, the red coal is burning between us and we are at its mercy? as if a power is finally dominating the two of us; as if we?re huddled up watching the black smoke and the ashes; as if knowledge is what we needed and now we have that knowledge. Now we have that knowledge. The tears are different?though I hate to speak for him?the tears are what we bring back to the darkness, what we are left with after our own escape, what, all along, the red coal had in store for us as we moved softly, either whistling or singing, either listening or reasoning on the gray sidewalks and the green ocean; in the cars and the kitchens and the bookstores; in the crowded restaurants, in the empty woods and libraries. ?Gerald Stern, This Time: New and Selected Poems (Norton, 1998) ? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081124/dc97e278/attachment.html From halvard at earthlink.net Mon Nov 24 10:06:30 2008 From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:49 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] paris poem In-Reply-To: <8CB1C5752650A08-1B8-802@WEBMAIL-MC13.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CB1C5752650A08-1B8-802@WEBMAIL-MC13.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: On Nov 24, 2008, at 8:23 AM, JforJames@aol.com wrote: > Anyone else have Paris poems? Here's one: Sonnet: On the Way to Gare St. Lazare Missed my train and had to wait five minutes for the next one. Enjoyed a brioche with marmalade at the Irish pub. Planned a Japanese meal with Mike and the rest of the guys (and gals). Fell asleep briefly in a bar so dark one could easily fall asleep in it. Learned to say "I need to have sex with you right now" in French. Got up late again this morning. Haven't been sleeping well. Met Georgina and that Corsican guy at the Louvre. Stayed inside because of the rain. All-day rain. Again. Went to check emails. Nothing from home. Wandered over to the art school to meet my friends. Had another chocolat chaud. That must be thirty or so now. Started to catch up on my reading. Again. New book this time. Got some food at a lovely restaurant with purple and red chairs. Sat inside, hopping outside to take photos. Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard@earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081124/66b77eb8/attachment.html From opus40-01 at opus40.org Mon Nov 24 10:07:57 2008 From: opus40-01 at opus40.org (opus40-01@opus40.org) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:49 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] paris poem Message-ID: <380-220081112415757527@M2W031.mail2web.com> This is wonderful. Original Message: ----------------- From: jforjames@aol.com Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2008 09:25:17 -0500 To: new-poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] paris poem The Red Coal Sometimes I sit in my blue chair trying to remember what it was like in the spring of 1950 before the burning coal entered my life. I study my red hand under the faucet, the left one below the grease line consisting of four feminine angels and one crooked broken masculine one and the right one lying on top of the white porcelain with skin wrinkled up like a chicken???s beside the razor and the silver tap. I didn???t live in Paris for nothing and walk with Jack Gilbert down the wide sidewalks thinking of Hart Crane and Apollinaire and I didn???t save the picture of the two of us moving?? through a crowd of stiff Frenchmen and put it beside the one of Pound and Williams unless I wanted to see what coals had done to their lives too. I say it with vast affection, wanting desperately to know what the two of them talked about when they lived in Pennsylvania and what they talked about at St. Elizabeth???s fifty years later, looking into the sun, 40,000 wrinkles between them, the suffering finally taking over their lives. I think of Gilbert all the time now, what we said on our long walks in Pittsburgh, how lucky we were to live in New York, how strange his great fame was and my obscurity, how we now carry the future with us, knowing every small vein and every elaboration. The coal has taken over, the red coal is burning between us and we are at its mercy??? as if a power is finally dominating the two of us; as if we???re huddled up watching the black smoke and the ashes; as if knowledge is what we needed and now we have that knowledge. Now we have that knowledge. The tears are different???though I hate to speak for him???the tears are what we bring back to the darkness, what we are left with after our own escape, what, all along, the red coal had in store for us as we moved softly, either whistling or singing, either listening or reasoning on the gray sidewalks and the green ocean; in the cars and the kitchens and the bookstores; in the crowded restaurants, in the empty woods and libraries. ???Gerald Stern, This Time: New and Selected Poems (Norton, 1998) ?? -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://link.mail2web.com/mail2web From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Mon Nov 24 12:16:32 2008 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:49 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] paris poem In-Reply-To: <380-220081112415757527@M2W031.mail2web.com> References: <380-220081112415757527@M2W031.mail2web.com> Message-ID: <4b65c2d70811240916t2054745m826ec7cf774a3d1d@mail.gmail.com> A very touching poem, thank you, Anny On Mon, Nov 24, 2008 at 4:07 PM, opus40-01@opus40.org wrote: > This is wonderful. > > Original Message: > ----------------- > From: jforjames@aol.com > Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2008 09:25:17 -0500 > To: new-poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] paris poem > > > > The Red Coal > > > Sometimes I sit in my blue chair trying to remember > what it was like in the spring of 1950 > before the burning coal entered my life. > > > I study my red hand under the faucet, the left one > below the grease line consisting of four feminine angels > and one crooked broken masculine one > > > and the right one lying on top of the white porcelain > with skin wrinkled up like a chicken's > beside the razor and the silver tap. > > > I didn't live in Paris for nothing and walk > with Jack Gilbert down the wide sidewalks > thinking of Hart Crane and Apollinaire > > > and I didn't save the picture of the two of us > moving through a crowd of stiff Frenchmen > and put it beside the one of Pound and Williams > > > unless I wanted to see what coals had done > to their lives too. I say it with vast affection, > wanting desperately to know what the two of them > > > talked about when they lived in Pennsylvania > and what they talked about at St. Elizabeth's > fifty years later, looking into the sun, > > > 40,000 wrinkles between them, > the suffering finally taking over their lives. > I think of Gilbert all the time now, what > > > we said on our long walks in Pittsburgh, how > lucky we were to live in New York, how strange > his great fame was and my obscurity, > > > how we now carry the future with us, knowing > every small vein and every elaboration. > The coal has taken over, the red coal > > > is burning between us and we are at its mercy? > as if a power is finally > dominating > the two of us; as if we're huddled up > > > watching the black smoke and the ashes; > as if knowledge is what we needed and now > we have that knowledge. Now we have that knowledge. > > > The tears are different?though I hate to speak > for him?the tears are what we bring back to the > darkness, what we are left with after our > > > own escape, what, all along, the red coal had > in store for us as we moved softly, > either whistling or singing, either listening or reasoning > > > on the gray sidewalks and the green ocean; > in the cars and the kitchens and the bookstores; > in the crowded restaurants, in the empty woods and libraries. > > > ?Gerald Stern, This Time: New and Selected Poems (Norton, 1998) > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > mail2web - Check your email from the web at > http://link.mail2web.com/mail2web > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081124/823ae1e4/attachment.html From grahamd at ripon.edu Mon Nov 24 12:27:27 2008 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:49 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] paris poem In-Reply-To: <4b65c2d70811240916t2054745m826ec7cf774a3d1d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Paris, October 1936 >From all of this I am the only one who leaves. >From this bench I go away, from my pants, from my great situation, from my actions, from my number split side to side, from all of this I am the only one who leaves. >From the Champs Elys?es or as the strange alley of the Moon makes a turn, my death goes away, my cradle leaves, and, surrounded by people, alone, cut loose, my human resemblance turns around and dispatches its shadows one by one. And I move away from everything, since everything remains to create my alibi: my shoe, its eyelet, as well as its mud and even the bend in the elbow of my own buttoned shirt. --Cesar Vallejo. translated by Clayton Eshleman ==================================================== David Graham grahamd@ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/ Poetry Library: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ==================================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20081124/a40d16ad/attachment.html From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Mon Nov 24 12:38:38 2008 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:17:49 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] paris poem In-Reply-To: References: <4b65c2d70811240916t2054745m826ec7cf774a3d1d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4b65c2d70811240938w3a41c045r8cf2e57294dcf230@mail.gmail.com> With a beautiful *Sky over Paris* (c.1933) all about e.e.cummings and his stay in Paris: http://www.gvsu.edu/english/cummings/Paris.htm and one colorful poem: Paris;this April sunset completely utters utters serenely silently a cathedral before whose upward lean magnificent face the streets turn young with rain, spiral acres of bloated rose coiled within cobalt miles of sky yield to and heed the mauve of twilight(who slenderly descends, daintily carrying in her eyes the dangerous first stars) people move love hurry in a gently arriving gloom and see!(the new moon fills abruptly with sudden silver these torn pockets of lame and begging colour)while there and here the lithe indolent prostitute Night,argues with certain houses (1923; CP 183) On Mon, Nov 24, 2008 at 6:27 PM, David Graham wrote: > *Paris, October 1936 > * > >From all of this I am the only one who leaves. > >From this bench I go away, from my pants, > from my great situation, from my actions, > from my number split side to side, > from all of this I am the only one who leaves. > > >From the Champs Elys?es or as the strange > alley of the M