From anny.ballardini at tin.it Thu May 1 03:36:28 2008 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:25 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Simic Stepping Down In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8E4C32F6A887437F8959CAFD1D0E88F0@AnnyPC> I told you that he was a good guy. From: Rsgwynn1@cs.com Sent: Thursday, May 01, 2008 4:16 AM In a message dated 4/30/2008 9:14:00 PM Central Daylight Time, almaginnes@aol.com writes: Can I keep my other job while I'm poet laureate? And who pays to keep the crown polished and the ermine cloak cleaned? Bob Grumman has volunteered to do that for free as it's primarily a visual thing. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080501/f3271e9c/attachment.html From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Thu May 1 07:09:39 2008 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:25 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Simic Stepping Down In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4819A4F3.7040600@nut-n-but.net> Rsgwynn1@cs.com wrote: > In a message dated 4/30/2008 9:14:00 PM Central Daylight Time, > almaginnes@aol.com writes: >> >> Can I keep my other job while I'm poet laureate? And who pays to keep >> the crown polished and the ermine cloak cleaned? > > > Bob Grumman has volunteered to do that for free as it's primarily a > visual thing. Well, not entirely for free--if I do it, the laureate will have to mention the word, "visual poetry," publicly at least once. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080501/92474979/attachment.html From anny.ballardini at tin.it Thu May 1 10:23:20 2008 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:26 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] from the Writer's Almanac In-Reply-To: <8CA7939C2B998B7-152C-C12@webmailbeta-m07.sysops.aol.com> References: <3F79A49B3EE34024B250478DE1B9C924@AnnyPC> <4818E952.7030506@nut-n-but.net><02222B8C11F847D0B1D0B32AAC8A8D4B@AnnyPC> <8CA7939C2B998B7-152C-C12@webmailbeta-m07.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: Must apologize, I had to read her autobiography. Then yes, there are lesbian tones and the ending within this context has a different meaning. In my ignorance "cracked" referred to the body after a day you have been working in the fields or doing some heavy labor. From: jforjames@aol.com Sent: Thursday, May 01, 2008 2:30 AM The first part of the poem doesn't do much for me, until the tree frogs (likely Hyla, Frost has a poem on this Springtime noise, I first noticed since becoming a New Englander, though may be its Midwestern feature too. I don't know that it's shrill or sweet but its definitely a sound that makes itself known just as spring sets in.). The last four lines have lesbian and Dickinson undertones which redeem the slightness of it for me... And we lie on our beds Through the ecstatic night, Wide awake, cracked open. There will be no going back. -- Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: Anny Ballardini Sent: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 5:02 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] from the Writer's Almanac It's my turn Bob (never trust a woman _they just gave on Beethoven.com: La donna e' mobile): I like that line, all the s swinging through, what I did not particularly like and would have left out is the very last line, cold, brown, twigs, dirty snow, dark flows, cracked open are already over the top in describing what she tries to summarize in the last line. ----- Original Message ----- From: Bob Grumman To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2008 11:49 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] from the Writer's Almanac Anny Ballardini wrote: Poem: "April in Maine" by May Sarton, from Collected Poems: 1930-1993. ? W.W. Norton & Company, 1992. Reprinted with permission. (buy now) April in Maine The days are cold and brown, Brown fields, no sign of green, Brown twigs, not even swelling, And dirty snow in the woods. But as the dark flows in The tree frogs begin Their shrill sweet singing, And we lie on our beds Through the ecstatic night, Wide awake, cracked open. There will be no going back. Nice poem, Anny. I say that only because I've already gotten my daily disagreement with you out of the way. I wonder, though, if anyone would agree with me that "Their shrill sweet singing" could have been dropped to the benefit of the poem. It seems superfluous, and I personally don't like the near-rhyme of the instances of "ing" with "in." --Bob G. Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! -------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080501/1f7e54f3/attachment.html From anny.ballardini at tin.it Thu May 1 10:28:49 2008 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:26 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Richard Hoffman and Ted Kooser Message-ID: <4C8FA688E7D74F939750066FF6E4F8C8@AnnyPC> Welcome to American Life in Poetry. For information on permissions and usage, or to download a PDF version of the column, visit www.americanlifeinpoetry.org. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain ****************************** American Life in Poetry: Column 162 BY TED KOOSER, U.S. POET LAUREATE, 2004-2006 Richard Hoffman Summer Job "The trouble with intellectuals," Manny, my boss, once told me, "is that they don't know nothing till they can explain it to themselves. A guy like that," he said, "he gets to middle age--and by the way, he gets there late; he's trying to be a boy until he's forty, forty-five, and then you give him five more years until that craziness peters out, and now he's almost fifty--a guy like that at last explains to himself that life is made of time, that time is what it's all about. Aha! he says. And then he either blows his brains out, gets religion, or settles down to some major-league depression. Make yourself useful. Hand me that three-eights torque wrench--no, you moron, the other one." American Life in Poetry is made possible by The Poetry Foundation (www.poetryfoundation.org), publisher of Poetry magazine. It is also supported by the Department of English at the University of Nebraska-Lincoln. Poem copyright (c) 2006 by Richard Hoffman, and reprinted from his most recent book of poetry, "Gold Star Road," Barrow Street Press, 2007, by permission of the poet. Introduction copyright (c) 2008 by The Poetry Foundation. The introduction's author, Ted Kooser, served as United States Poet Laureate Consultant in Poetry to the Library of Congress from 2004-2006. We do not accept unsolicited manuscripts. ****************************** Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080501/42241c76/attachment.html From amyhappens at yahoo.com Thu May 1 10:51:31 2008 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:26 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Two New Issues: Coconut and Moira Message-ID: <663057.19112.qm@web83303.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Coconut Poetry NEW ISSUE OF COCONUT! Contents david trinidad/jeffery conway/gillian mccain reb livingston chelsey minnis elizabeth treadwell christopher salerno lauren spohrer terita heath-wlaz tyler carter elisa gabbert michael ball brenda iijima sam truitt jessica piazza claire hero matthew zapruder james sanders linnea ogden emily kendal frey kc trommer gina myers seth landman Moira Poetry Journal volume 10, issues 2 & 3 fall 2007 & winter 2008 poetry Jesse Ferguson Mary Kasimor Davide Baptiste Chirot Andy Nicholson Geof Huth Laurel Ransom William Garvin Diana Magallon and Jeff Crouch Steve Roggenbuck Mark Young Andy Gricevich Eric Weiskott Laura Harper Thomas Fink Raymond Farr Michael Crake John Lowther Kyle Schlesinger Adam Strauss reviews Mark Wallace on Maryrose Larkin Aileen Ibardaloza on Eileen Tabios Jake Kennedy on Andrea Baker Laura Goldstein on Adam Fieled _______ http://www.amyking.org ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080501/9395a438/attachment.html From anny.ballardini at tin.it Thu May 1 15:34:37 2008 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:26 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] from Joel Weishaus Message-ID: Dear Friends, Family, and Colleagues: Here is the April edition of my blog, "Reality Too." Blog: http://web.pdx.edu/~pdx00282/blog/April.htm Introduction (rev.): http://web.pdx.edu/~pdx00282/blog/intro.htm Designed for MS Explorer; Text Size: Medium; 1024X768 screen resolution. -Joel Weishaus -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080501/ccfd2a27/attachment.html From jforjames at aol.com Thu May 1 17:53:38 2008 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames@aol.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:26 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Arvon calling Message-ID: <8CA79ECF27181EC-1F54-177D@webmailbeta-m09.sysops.aol.com> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/arts/main.jhtml?xml=/arts/2008/05/03/bopoems.xml Arvon Poetry Competition: 'Break every law...' Last Updated: 12:01am BST 03/05/2008 As the Telegraph joins forces with the ?5,000 Arvon Poetry Competition, Jean Sprackland offers some tips Arvon Poetry Competition entry form Don't be taken in: there is no one way to write a poem, no recipe or instruction manual, no winning formula where competitions are concerned. It's something you can only learn by doing, and even then it remains a slippery and mysterious process. ?? Jean Sprackland won the 2007 Costa Poetry Award for Tilt As the Irish poet Michael Longley said, "If I knew where poems came from, I'd go there." But since I once had the privilege of acting as a judge of the Arvon International Poetry Competition, I do have a few thoughts that might be useful if you are thinking of trying your hand. ? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080501/1e448af0/attachment.html From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Thu May 1 19:07:13 2008 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:26 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] from the Writer's Almanac In-Reply-To: References: <3F79A49B3EE34024B250478DE1B9C924@AnnyPC> <4818E952.7030506@nut-n-but.net><02222B8C11F847D0B1D0B32AAC8A8D4B@AnnyPC><8CA7939C2B998B7-152C-C12@webmailbeta-m07.sysops.aol. com> Message-ID: <481A4D21.7070305@nut-n-but.net> I took "cracked" as sexual but not as lesbian. --Bob From anny.ballardini at tin.it Thu May 1 18:46:47 2008 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:26 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] from the Writer's Almanac In-Reply-To: References: <3F79A49B3EE34024B250478DE1B9C924@AnnyPC> <4818E952.7030506@nut-n-but.net><02222B8C11F847D0B1D0B32AAC8A8D4B@AnnyPC><8CA7939C2B998B7-152C-C12@webmailbeta-m07.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: jeex, her biography... sorry ----- Original Message ----- From: Anny Ballardini To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views Sent: Thursday, May 01, 2008 4:23 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] from the Writer's Almanac Must apologize, I had to read her autobiography. Then yes, there are lesbian tones and the ending within this context has a different meaning. In my ignorance "cracked" referred to the body after a day you have been working in the fields or doing some heavy labor. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080502/85ac1563/attachment.html From jforjames at aol.com Fri May 2 16:05:37 2008 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames@aol.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:26 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Simic Stepping Down In-Reply-To: <731bb17a0804301731q124f2d9cm6e6c4aee5ce1e418@mail.gmail.com> References: <731bb17a0804301731q124f2d9cm6e6c4aee5ce1e418@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <8CA7AA705944067-1034-738@WEBMAIL-STG-D01.sysops.aol.com> I'd like to see the post?be given to a woman, preferably in 45-70 year old range. Not too young, because there are too many visible and interesting poets and time will be needed to sort things out. Not too old because I think it's become an emissary position, and even an activist one. Jane Hirshfield, Jorie Graham, Alice Notley would be good short list ?(all for different reasons) Or to a Language Poet for something completely different: Hejinian, Silliman, Bernstein...could be fun to watch. Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: Jeff Newberry To: NewPoetry Sent: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 8:31 pm Subject: [New-Poetry] Simic Stepping Down Simic stepping aside as U.S. poet laureate Published: April 29, 2008 at 2:39 PM WASHINGTON, April 29 (UPI) -- A lecture on poetry translation will be the final time Charles Simic speaks as U.S. poet laureate, the Library of Congress said. "I've thoroughly enjoyed this past year," Simic said in a news release. "The best part of being poet laureate of the United States is working with the fine, dedicated and learned people at the Library (of Congress)." http://www.upi.com/NewsTrack/Entertainment/2008/04/29/simic_stepping_aside_as_us_poet_laureate/7748/ Who's on deck?? Anyone know? Got this story via The Poetry Hut (http://www.poetryhut.com/wordpress/) Best, Jeff Newberry -- "Why are you wearing that stupid *man* suit?" http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080502/879b7dcd/attachment.html From choi at apostrophecast.com Fri May 2 17:00:11 2008 From: choi at apostrophecast.com (choi@apostrophecast.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:26 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Cecily Parks reads on Apostrophe Cast Message-ID: <4464.208.97.187.133.1209762011.squirrel@mail.apostrophecast.com> Hi everyone, I thought you might be interested in the latest episode of Apostrophe Cast (http://www.apostrophecast.com)as we have a really wonderful reading up from poet, Cecily Parks. Cecily reads from her first collection, Field Folly Snow--a volume in VQR's new poetry series. And, we're having a contest to give away a copy of the book, so be sure to enter (http://www.apostrophecast.com/blog/)! Enjoy, Amanda Choi -- Visit Apostrophecast.com Apostrophe Cast is a bi-weekly online reading series, delivered as a podcast. Every other Wednesday evening we post a new reading from a different writer. One author, one reading. From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Fri May 2 19:17:18 2008 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:26 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Simic Stepping Down In-Reply-To: <8CA7AA705944067-1034-738@WEBMAIL-STG-D01.sysops.aol.com> References: <731bb17a0804301731q124f2d9cm6e6c4aee5ce1e418@mail.gmail.com> <8CA7AA705944067-1034-738@WEBMAIL-STG-D01.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <481BA0FE.7040207@nut-n-but.net> jforjames@aol.com wrote: > I'd like to see the post be given to a woman, preferably in 45-70 year > old range. Not too young, because > there are too many visible and interesting poets and time will be > needed to sort things out. Not too old > because I think it's become an emissary position, and even an activist > one. > Jane Hirshfield, Jorie Graham, Alice Notley would be good short list > (all for different reasons) > > Or to a Language Poet for something completely different: Hejinian, > Silliman, Bernstein...could be fun to watch. > > Finnegan But definitely not a visual poet! --Bob G. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Jeff Newberry > To: NewPoetry > Sent: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 8:31 pm > Subject: [New-Poetry] Simic Stepping Down > > Simic stepping aside as U.S. poet laureate > Published: April 29, 2008 at 2:39 PM > > WASHINGTON, April 29 (UPI) -- A lecture on poetry translation will be > the final time Charles Simic speaks as U.S. poet laureate, the Library > of Congress said. > > "I've thoroughly enjoyed this past year," Simic said in a news > release. "The best part of being poet laureate of the United States is > working with the fine, dedicated and learned people at the Library (of > Congress)." > > http://www.upi.com/NewsTrack/Entertainment/2008/04/29/simic_stepping_aside_as_us_poet_laureate/7748/ > > > > Who's on deck? Anyone know? > > Got this story via The Poetry Hut (http://www.poetryhut.com/wordpress/) > > Best, > > Jeff Newberry > > -- > "Why are you wearing that stupid *man* suit?" > > http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Plan your next roadtrip with MapQuest.com > : America's #1 > Mapping Site. > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080502/b563ac6f/attachment.html From anny.ballardini at tin.it Fri May 2 18:21:00 2008 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:26 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Simic Stepping Down In-Reply-To: <481BA0FE.7040207@nut-n-but.net> References: <731bb17a0804301731q124f2d9cm6e6c4aee5ce1e418@mail.gmail.com><8CA7AA705944067-1034-738@WEBMAIL-STG-D01.sysops.aol.com> <481BA0FE.7040207@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: Geof Huth could deserve it, he is writing tons of ether to divulge visual poetry, not to mention Mrs. Grumman, weren't you talking of a woman, James? From: Bob Grumman Sent: Saturday, May 03, 2008 1:17 AM jforjames@aol.com wrote: I'd like to see the post be given to a woman, preferably in 45-70 year old range. Not too young, because there are too many visible and interesting poets and time will be needed to sort things out. Not too old because I think it's become an emissary position, and even an activist one. Jane Hirshfield, Jorie Graham, Alice Notley would be good short list (all for different reasons) Or to a Language Poet for something completely different: Hejinian, Silliman, Bernstein...could be fun to watch. Finnegan But definitely not a visual poet! --Bob G. -----Original Message----- From: Jeff Newberry To: NewPoetry Sent: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 8:31 pm Subject: [New-Poetry] Simic Stepping Down Simic stepping aside as U.S. poet laureate Published: April 29, 2008 at 2:39 PM WASHINGTON, April 29 (UPI) -- A lecture on poetry translation will be the final time Charles Simic speaks as U.S. poet laureate, the Library of Congress said. "I've thoroughly enjoyed this past year," Simic said in a news release. "The best part of being poet laureate of the United States is working with the fine, dedicated and learned people at the Library (of Congress)." http://www.upi.com/NewsTrack/Entertainment/2008/04/29/simic_stepping_aside_as_us_poet_laureate/7748/ Who's on deck? Anyone know? Got this story via The Poetry Hut (http://www.poetryhut.com/wordpress/) Best, Jeff Newberry -- "Why are you wearing that stupid *man* suit?" http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com _______________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080503/fe536c36/attachment.html From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Fri May 2 22:05:55 2008 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:27 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Simic Stepping Down In-Reply-To: References: <731bb17a0804301731q124f2d9cm6e6c4aee5ce1e418@mail.gmail.com><8CA7AA705944067-1034-738@WEBMAIL-STG-D01.sysops.aol.com ><481BA0FE.7040207@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <481BC883.3040204@nut-n-but.net> Anny Ballardini wrote: > Geof Huth could deserve it, he is writing tons of ether to divulge > visual poetry, > not to mention Mrs. Grumman, weren't you talking of a woman, James? Haw, I'd actually make a good choice since I only disagree with half of Bush's positions--but why are you announcing my upcoming operation to everybody, Anny--that was between you and me! --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080502/da70ea80/attachment.html From anny.ballardini at tin.it Sat May 3 03:46:14 2008 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:27 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Simic Stepping Down In-Reply-To: <481BC883.3040204@nut-n-but.net> References: <731bb17a0804301731q124f2d9cm6e6c4aee5ce1e418@mail.gmail.com><8CA7AA705944067-1034-738@WEBMAIL-STG-D01.sysops.aol.com><481BA0FE.7040207@nut-n-but.net> <481BC883.3040204@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: Jaysoos, it was not official, yet. Sorry Bob, and my best congratulations! Please let us know how you will revitalize the poetry scene. From: Bob Grumman Sent: Saturday, May 03, 2008 4:05 AM Anny Ballardini wrote: Geof Huth could deserve it, he is writing tons of ether to divulge visual poetry, not to mention Mrs. Grumman, weren't you talking of a woman, James? Haw, I'd actually make a good choice since I only disagree with half of Bush's positions--but why are you announcing my upcoming operation to everybody, Anny--that was between you and me! --Bob ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080503/aa9acec9/attachment.html From rog3r.day at gmail.com Sat May 3 08:03:44 2008 From: rog3r.day at gmail.com (Roger Day) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:27 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Simic Stepping Down In-Reply-To: <481BA0FE.7040207@nut-n-but.net> References: <731bb17a0804301731q124f2d9cm6e6c4aee5ce1e418@mail.gmail.com> <8CA7AA705944067-1034-738@WEBMAIL-STG-D01.sysops.aol.com> <481BA0FE.7040207@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: I'd like to see a visual poet get the job just to piss off the conservatives. On 5/3/08, Bob Grumman wrote: > > > jforjames@aol.com wrote: > I'd like to see the post be given to a woman, preferably in 45-70 year old > range. Not too young, because > there are too many visible and interesting poets and time will be needed to > sort things out. Not too old > because I think it's become an emissary position, and even an activist one. > Jane Hirshfield, Jorie Graham, Alice Notley would be good short list (all > for different reasons) > > Or to a Language Poet for something completely different: Hejinian, > Silliman, Bernstein...could be fun to watch. > > Finnegan > But definitely not a visual poet! > > --Bob G. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Jeff Newberry > To: NewPoetry > Sent: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 8:31 pm > Subject: [New-Poetry] Simic Stepping Down > > Simic stepping aside as U.S. poet laureate > Published: April 29, 2008 at 2:39 PM > WASHINGTON, April 29 (UPI) -- A lecture on poetry translation will be the > final time Charles Simic speaks as U.S. poet laureate, the Library of > Congress said. > > "I've thoroughly enjoyed this past year," Simic said in a news release. "The > best part of being poet laureate of the United States is working with the > fine, dedicated and learned people at the Library (of Congress)." > > http://www.upi.com/NewsTrack/Entertainment/2008/04/29/simic_stepping_aside_as_us_poet_laureate/7748/ > > > > Who's on deck? Anyone know? > > Got this story via The Poetry Hut > (http://www.poetryhut.com/wordpress/) > > Best, > > Jeff Newberry > > -- > "Why are you wearing that stupid *man* suit?" > > http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com > _______________________________________________ New-Poetry > mailing > list New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > ________________________________ > Plan your next roadtrip with MapQuest.com: America's #1 Mapping Site. > ________________________________ > _______________________________________________ New-Poetry > mailing > list New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- My Stuff: http://www.badstep.net/ "She went out with her paint box, paints the chapel blue She went out with her matches, torched the car-wash too" The Go-Betweens From jbalizsprince at cox.net Sat May 3 08:07:42 2008 From: jbalizsprince at cox.net (judy prince) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:27 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Simic Stepping Down References: <731bb17a0804301731q124f2d9cm6e6c4aee5ce1e418@mail.gmail.com><8CA7AA705944067-1034-738@WEBMAIL-STG-D01.sysops.aol.com><481BA0FE.7040207@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <621101c8ad16$4ea633e0$6501a8c0@judy> I'd like to see a piss poet get the job just to vigilate the conservatives. Judy ----- Original Message ----- From: "Roger Day" To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &,Views" Sent: Saturday, May 03, 2008 8:03 AM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Simic Stepping Down > I'd like to see a visual poet get the job just to piss off the > conservatives. > > On 5/3/08, Bob Grumman wrote: >> >> >> jforjames@aol.com wrote: >> I'd like to see the post be given to a woman, preferably in 45-70 year >> old >> range. Not too young, because >> there are too many visible and interesting poets and time will be needed >> to >> sort things out. Not too old >> because I think it's become an emissary position, and even an activist >> one. >> Jane Hirshfield, Jorie Graham, Alice Notley would be good short list >> (all >> for different reasons) >> >> Or to a Language Poet for something completely different: Hejinian, >> Silliman, Bernstein...could be fun to watch. >> >> Finnegan >> But definitely not a visual poet! >> >> --Bob G. >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Jeff Newberry >> To: NewPoetry >> Sent: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 8:31 pm >> Subject: [New-Poetry] Simic Stepping Down >> >> Simic stepping aside as U.S. poet laureate >> Published: April 29, 2008 at 2:39 PM >> WASHINGTON, April 29 (UPI) -- A lecture on poetry translation will be the >> final time Charles Simic speaks as U.S. poet laureate, the Library of >> Congress said. >> >> "I've thoroughly enjoyed this past year," Simic said in a news release. >> "The >> best part of being poet laureate of the United States is working with the >> fine, dedicated and learned people at the Library (of Congress)." >> >> http://www.upi.com/NewsTrack/Entertainment/2008/04/29/simic_stepping_aside_as_us_poet_laureate/7748/ >> >> >> >> Who's on deck? Anyone know? >> >> Got this story via The Poetry Hut >> (http://www.poetryhut.com/wordpress/) >> >> Best, >> >> Jeff Newberry >> >> -- >> "Why are you wearing that stupid *man* suit?" >> >> http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com >> _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry >> mailing >> list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> ________________________________ >> Plan your next roadtrip with MapQuest.com: America's #1 Mapping Site. >> ________________________________ >> > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry >> mailing >> list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > > > -- > My Stuff: http://www.badstep.net/ > "She went out with her paint box, paints the chapel blue > She went out with her matches, torched the car-wash too" > The Go-Betweens > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > From tsmclain at gmail.com Sat May 3 13:27:38 2008 From: tsmclain at gmail.com (ts mclain) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:27 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Arvon calling In-Reply-To: <8CA79ECF27181EC-1F54-177D@webmailbeta-m09.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CA79ECF27181EC-1F54-177D@webmailbeta-m09.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <9ded96600805031027nd21ed17mfc99439fc21618cc@mail.gmail.com> > "So you've decided to go for it. You've cleared the breakfast dishes off the dining table, and you're sitting there with your lucky pen. What shall you write about?" What? Without any paper? On Thu, May 1, 2008 at 5:53 PM, wrote: > > http://www.telegraph.co.uk/arts/main.jhtml?xml=/arts/2008/05/03/bopoems.xml > > Arvon Poetry Competition: 'Break every law...' > Last Updated: 12:01am BST 03/05/2008 > As the Telegraph joins forces with the ?5,000 Arvon Poetry Competition, > Jean Sprackland offers some tips > Arvon Poetry Competition entry form > > Don't be taken in: there is no one way to write a poem, no recipe or > instruction manual, no winning formula where competitions are concerned. > It's something you can only learn by doing, and even then it remains a > slippery and mysterious process. > > Jean Sprackland won the 2007 Costa Poetry Award for Tilt > As the Irish poet Michael Longley said, "If I knew where poems came from, > I'd go there." But since I once had the privilege of acting as a judge of > the Arvon International Poetry Competition, I do have a few thoughts that > might be useful if you are thinking of trying your hand. > > ------------------------------ > Plan your next roadtrip with MapQuest.com: > America's #1 Mapping Site. > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080503/6d9b2c96/attachment.html From jbalizsprince at cox.net Sat May 3 16:03:33 2008 From: jbalizsprince at cox.net (judy prince) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:27 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Simic Stepping Down References: <731bb17a0804301731q124f2d9cm6e6c4aee5ce1e418@mail.gmail.com> <8CA7AA705944067-1034-738@WEBMAIL-STG-D01.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <688901c8ad58$c5583a00$6501a8c0@judy> Howzis, jforjamesFinnegan (I guess--as am new on new-po)? Chuck the word "laureate" from the position, recognise that it's a job like any other (i.e., with work to do and pay to get) and that it deserves publicity for worker and craft. Then go ahead and democratise the role: hire a poet a week. Further, why do we approve the prostitution of poets and poetry by fawning over the hierarch-imposing circus of competitions and awards? Wot are those events proving to us? Wot are they demonstrating to poetry-appreciators and would-be poets? I've wondered why +art forms+ "need" the delusive boost of competition. Slightly reconfiguring the old patron networks, our corporations and individuals (with all the charitable feeling of missionaries ) promote art-ists through the twinned tactics of our society: war and capitalism. I'd thought that art might, rather, be the saddle-burr as well as the Necessary Oasis. Judy ----- Original Message ----- From: jforjames@aol.com To: new-poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Friday, May 02, 2008 4:05 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Simic Stepping Down I'd like to see the post be given to a woman, preferably in 45-70 year old range. Not too young, because there are too many visible and interesting poets and time will be needed to sort things out. Not too old because I think it's become an emissary position, and even an activist one. Jane Hirshfield, Jorie Graham, Alice Notley would be good short list (all for different reasons) Or to a Language Poet for something completely different: Hejinian, Silliman, Bernstein...could be fun to watch. Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: Jeff Newberry To: NewPoetry Sent: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 8:31 pm Subject: [New-Poetry] Simic Stepping Down Simic stepping aside as U.S. poet laureate Published: April 29, 2008 at 2:39 PM WASHINGTON, April 29 (UPI) -- A lecture on poetry translation will be the final time Charles Simic speaks as U.S. poet laureate, the Library of Congress said. "I've thoroughly enjoyed this past year," Simic said in a news release. "The best part of being poet laureate of the United States is working with the fine, dedicated and learned people at the Library (of Congress)." http://www.upi.com/NewsTrack/Entertainment/2008/04/29/simic_stepping_aside_as_us_poet_laureate/7748/ Who's on deck? Anyone know? Got this story via The Poetry Hut (http://www.poetryhut.com/wordpress/) Best, Jeff Newberry -- "Why are you wearing that stupid *man* suit?" http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Plan your next roadtrip with MapQuest.com: America's #1 Mapping Site. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080503/a02a52cc/attachment.html From dbarone at sjc.edu Sun May 4 08:56:36 2008 From: dbarone at sjc.edu (Barone, Dennis) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:27 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] laureate Message-ID: <954A5413620E074797298540927621C50D8915B9@sjcexchange.SJC.EDU> I'd like to see the post of poet laureate of the United States eliminated. Consultant in Poetry to the Library of Congress sounds ok to me, laureate does not. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080504/9cce5d75/attachment.html From grahamd at ripon.edu Sun May 4 09:07:01 2008 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:27 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: "Anti-" Feature: C. Dale Young References: <81b0f7f2b1cd451321fa0129cd493663@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <08DFF1EE-18DC-4E79-B389-57190DAF5641@ripon.edu> Begin forwarded message: > > Steven D. Schroeder sent a message to the members of Anti- (http:// > anti-poetry.com/). > > -------------------- > Subject: Anti- Featured Poet #6 > > This fortnight's featured poet at Anti- is C. Dale Young: http:// > anti-poetry.com/ > > You should go read his poems now, then tell everyone you know. > -------------------- > ======================================== David Graham grahamd@ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.mac.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080504/f0d022ca/attachment.html From shin02143 at aol.com Sun May 4 10:13:31 2008 From: shin02143 at aol.com (shin02143@aol.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:27 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] laureate In-Reply-To: <954A5413620E074797298540927621C50D8915B9@sjcexchange.SJC.EDU> References: <954A5413620E074797298540927621C50D8915B9@sjcexchange.SJC.EDU> Message-ID: <8CA7C082A6C6A3E-1028-215D@FWM-M08.sysops.aol.com> Dennis, Could you explain your reasoning? I like the idea of a national poet laureate. It is a time honored tradition and it occasionally even honors a deserving poet. Maybe in today's diffuse environment a laureate doesn't mean as much as it once did, if that is your point, but there are so few truly significant honors an American poet can receive I see no reason to eliminate this one. Richard -----Original Message----- From: Barone, Dennis To: new-poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Sun, 4 May 2008 8:56 am Subject: [New-Poetry] laureate I'd like to see the post of poet laureate of the United States eliminated.? Consultant in Poetry to the Library of Congress sounds ok to me, laureate does not. _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080504/f20a1ddf/attachment.html From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sun May 4 12:50:43 2008 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:27 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] laureate In-Reply-To: <8CA7C082A6C6A3E-1028-215D@FWM-M08.sysops.aol.com> References: <954A5413620E074797298540927621C50D8915B9@sjcexchange.SJC.EDU> <8CA7C082A6C6A3E-1028-215D@FWM-M08.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <481DE963.5020509@nut-n-but.net> shin02143@aol.com wrote: > Dennis, > > Could you explain your reasoning? I like the idea of a national poet > laureate. It is a time honored tradition and it occasionally even > honors a deserving poet. Maybe in today's diffuse environment a > laureate doesn't mean as much as it once did, if that is your point, > but there are so few truly significant honors an American poet can > receive I see no reason to eliminate this one. > > Richard > One obvious problem with it is that it is not "a truly significant honor." Too many not terrific poets have gotten it, and too few superior poets. And too many who have gotten it, have gotten it for socio-political reasons rather than for their poetry. On the other hand, one might argue that it isn't the position that's at fault, but the way those chosen to fill it are chosen. If I were in charge, I'd get some computer experts together with poetics experts (subjectively chosen by me, but with as much input from those interested as I could get) and try to devise a program that would analyze and rate poetry, then use it to reduce the number of candidates to a handful that prior laureates or some such group could pick the laureate from. I know, I know, poetry can't be analyzed, blah, blah, blah. Certainly the first versions of the program I imagine would be crude, but I am absolutely sure an effective one could eventually be created. It would compare what a poet's work with a huge memory vault of poetry in English to determine what it does that is different, for instance, something that can be objectively determined and is important, even though deciding the value of the new may not be--entirely. Just trying to make such a program could be extremely education, too, I should think. But don't worry, I'll never be put in charge of any such undertaking, nor will the poet laureateship be dropped, or some poet doing something interestingly unlike what all the established poets of the time are be given it. --Bob G. From anny.ballardini at tin.it Sun May 4 15:08:09 2008 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:27 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] oh Yes Message-ID: <9B3762F571B84CCAA81A2E850F346A49@AnnyPC> This is lovely: http://www.conduit.org/online/buchanan/buchanan.html sent by Giles Goodland to the Buffalo. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080504/4e907b56/attachment.html From ciccariello at gmail.com Sun May 4 15:51:28 2008 From: ciccariello at gmail.com (Peter Ciccariello) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:27 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] oh Yes In-Reply-To: <9B3762F571B84CCAA81A2E850F346A49@AnnyPC> References: <9B3762F571B84CCAA81A2E850F346A49@AnnyPC> Message-ID: <8f3fdbad0805041251w3e36ec42yf0a9d40643e7d710@mail.gmail.com> Fascinating! - Peter Ciccariello http://invisiblenotes.blogspot.com/ On Sun, May 4, 2008 at 3:08 PM, Anny Ballardini wrote: > This is lovely: > > http://www.conduit.org/online/buchanan/buchanan.html > > sent by Giles Goodland to the Buffalo. > > ------------------------------ > Anny Ballardini > http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ > http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome > http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html > I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing > star! > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080504/5c198203/attachment.html From cervantes.james at gmail.com Sun May 4 16:23:20 2008 From: cervantes.james at gmail.com (James Cervantes) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:28 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] oh Yes In-Reply-To: <9B3762F571B84CCAA81A2E850F346A49@AnnyPC> References: <9B3762F571B84CCAA81A2E850F346A49@AnnyPC> Message-ID: <648208b60805041323t42c8b818oe617802b893eb905@mail.gmail.com> - I'm sooo old fashioned. I tried to read it. - Each "installation," though it started with a different construct of words, seemed to follow the same mechanism of morphosis. - "Installation" is not the right term. - I thought of rain and felt much better. - Jim On Sun, May 4, 2008 at 2:08 PM, Anny Ballardini wrote: > This is lovely: > > http://www.conduit.org/online/buchanan/buchanan.html > > sent by Giles Goodland to the Buffalo. > > ------------------------------ > Anny Ballardini > http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ > http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome > http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html > I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing > star! > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080504/d63ab8d7/attachment.html From anny.ballardini at tin.it Sun May 4 16:39:44 2008 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:28 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] oh Yes In-Reply-To: <648208b60805041323t42c8b818oe617802b893eb905@mail.gmail.com> References: <9B3762F571B84CCAA81A2E850F346A49@AnnyPC> <648208b60805041323t42c8b818oe617802b893eb905@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1947D25EEAA64E07A306E1E517149CAA@AnnyPC> I think I agree with James, did read a couple of lines and realized the consistency and the value, the effect is invaluable though, I would love to be able to do it. The delicacy, the colors, the effect, its ephemeral nature, and so on... ----- Original Message ----- From: James Cervantes To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &,Views Sent: Sunday, May 04, 2008 10:23 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] oh Yes - I'm sooo old fashioned. I tried to read it. - Each "installation," though it started with a different construct of words, seemed to follow the same mechanism of morphosis. - "Installation" is not the right term. - I thought of rain and felt much better. - Jim On Sun, May 4, 2008 at 2:08 PM, Anny Ballardini wrote: This is lovely: http://www.conduit.org/online/buchanan/buchanan.html sent by Giles Goodland to the Buffalo. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080504/340687e5/attachment.html From jforjames at aol.com Sun May 4 19:41:15 2008 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames@aol.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:28 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] laureate In-Reply-To: <954A5413620E074797298540927621C50D8915B9@sjcexchange.SJC.EDU> References: <954A5413620E074797298540927621C50D8915B9@sjcexchange.SJC.EDU> Message-ID: <8CA7C5779F3E144-1F04-66@webmail-stg-d04.sysops.aol.com> Going back to old label for the post makes sense to me per the Enersonian?ideal of trying to establish a native literary tradition. When the name of the post was changed it was clearly a 'marketing' decision. Still 'Consultant' does sound a bit sterile/technical. I was thinking that only Poetry, despite its much talked about?marginalization, is the only one of Arts that get such prominant position both named and paid for by our national government. There is no Symphony Orchestra Conductor Laureate, no?Filmmaker Laureate, no Painter Laureate? We're special. Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: Barone, Dennis To: new-poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Sun, 4 May 2008 8:56 am Subject: [New-Poetry] laureate I'd like to see the post of poet laureate of the United States eliminated.? Consultant in Poetry to the Library of Congress sounds ok to me, laureate does not. _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080504/d44b36d4/attachment.html From jforjames at aol.com Sun May 4 19:58:48 2008 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames@aol.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:28 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Jason Shinder, 52, Poet and Founder of Arts Program Message-ID: <8CA7C59EDC386D0-1F04-104@webmail-stg-d04.sysops.aol.com> http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/03/arts/03shinder.html?ref=arts By MARGALIT FOX Published: May 3, 2008 Jason Shinder, a poet, anthologist and teacher who founded the Y.M.C.A. National Writer?s Voice program, one of the country?s largest networks of literary-arts centers, died on April 25 at his home in Manhattan. He was 52 and also lived in Provincetown, Mass. His death was announced by the Academy of American Poets, which said that Mr. Shinder had been ill with lymphoma and leukemia for several years. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080504/8b3235dc/attachment.html From jbalizsprince at cox.net Sun May 4 20:26:32 2008 From: jbalizsprince at cox.net (judy prince) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:28 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] laureate References: <954A5413620E074797298540927621C50D8915B9@sjcexchange.SJC.EDU> <8CA7C5779F3E144-1F04-66@webmail-stg-d04.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <15ac01c8ae46$b46c4f80$6501a8c0@judy> Do you like to be addressed as James or as Finnegan -- or a nother name? Ah, wot the hell, I'll call you JayFor!! Romantic you, JayFor! Prolly we get the laureate post bcuz we're the least likely of all the arts-producers to make money from our considerable output!! Poet Laureate, a kinda Pity Prize. The world watches and sez: "Look at that poor schlub, finally gonna make some (temporary) bread." And then they turn off the tube and start writing SF or romance novels. Judy whose friends write better poetry than me, for which I suffer nobly ----- Original Message ----- From: jforjames@aol.com To: new-poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Sunday, May 04, 2008 7:41 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] laureate I was thinking that only Poetry, despite its much talked about marginalization, is the only one of Arts that get such prominant position both named and paid for by our national government. There is no Symphony Orchestra Conductor Laureate, no Filmmaker Laureate, no Painter Laureate? We're special. Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: Barone, Dennis To: new-poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Sun, 4 May 2008 8:56 am Subject: [New-Poetry] laureate I'd like to see the post of poet laureate of the United States eliminated. Consultant in Poetry to the Library of Congress sounds ok to me, laureate does not. _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Plan your next roadtrip with MapQuest.com: America's #1 Mapping Site. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080504/99f954ca/attachment.html From amyhappens at yahoo.com Sun May 4 21:46:59 2008 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:28 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Jason Shinder, 52, Poet and Founder of Arts Program Message-ID: <392607.12825.qm@web83309.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Whoa. I had no idea he was sick. I met him many years ago at -- believe it or not -- a party in George Plimpton's famous upper-East side apartment in Manhattan, and he was always friendly and inviting wherever I saw him after. So young! Amy _______ http://www.amyking.org ----- Original Message ---- From: "jforjames@aol.com" To: new-poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Sunday, May 4, 2008 7:58:48 PM Subject: [New-Poetry] Jason Shinder, 52, Poet and Founder of Arts Program http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/03/arts/03shinder.html?ref=arts By MARGALIT FOX Published: May 3, 2008 Jason Shinder, a poet, anthologist and teacher who founded the Y.M.C.A. National Writer?s Voice program, one of the country?s largest networks of literary-arts centers, died on April 25 at his home in Manhattan. He was 52 and also lived in Provincetown, Mass. His death was announced by the Academy of American Poets, which said that Mr. Shinder had been ill with lymphoma and leukemia for several years. ________________________________ Plan your next roadtrip with MapQuest.com: America's #1 Mapping Site. ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080504/c137080a/attachment.html From anny.ballardini at tin.it Mon May 5 02:07:35 2008 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:28 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Jason Shinder, 52, Poet and Founder of Arts Program In-Reply-To: <392607.12825.qm@web83309.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: <392607.12825.qm@web83309.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: from The New Yorker: http://www.newyorker.com/fiction/poetry/2007/10/01/071001po_poem_shinder Living by Jason Shinder October 1, 2007 Just when it seemed my mother couldn't bear one more needle, one more insane orange pill, my sister, in silence, stood at the end of the bed and slowly rubbed her feet, which were scratchy with hard, yellow skin, and dirt cramped beneath the broken nails, which changed nothing in time except the way my mother was lost in it for a while as if with a kind of relief that doesn't relieve. And then, with her eyes closed, my mother said the one or two words the living have for gratefulness, which is a kind of forgetting, with a sense of what it means to be alive long enough to love someone. Thank you, she said. As for me, I didn't care how her voice suddenly seemed low and kind, or what failures and triumphs of the body and spirit brought her to that point- just that it sounded like hope, stupid hope. ----- Original Message ----- From: amy king To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views Sent: Monday, May 05, 2008 3:46 AM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Jason Shinder, 52, Poet and Founder of Arts Program Whoa. I had no idea he was sick. I met him many years ago at -- believe it or not -- a party in George Plimpton's famous upper-East side apartment in Manhattan, and he was always friendly and inviting wherever I saw him after. So young! Amy _______ http://www.amyking.org ----- Original Message ---- From: "jforjames@aol.com" To: new-poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Sunday, May 4, 2008 7:58:48 PM Subject: [New-Poetry] Jason Shinder, 52, Poet and Founder of Arts Program http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/03/arts/03shinder.html?ref=arts By MARGALIT FOX Published: May 3, 2008 Jason Shinder, a poet, anthologist and teacher who founded the Y.M.C.A. National Writer?s Voice program, one of the country?s largest networks of literary-arts centers, died on April 25 at his home in Manhattan. He was 52 and also lived in Provincetown, Mass. His death was announced by the Academy of American Poets, which said that Mr. Shinder had been ill with lymphoma and leukemia for several years. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Plan your next roadtrip with MapQuest.com: America's #1 Mapping Site. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.8/1413 - Release Date: 5/3/2008 11:22 AM -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080505/1e11a41c/attachment.html From rog3r.day at gmail.com Mon May 5 06:17:27 2008 From: rog3r.day at gmail.com (Roger Day) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:28 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Simic Stepping Down In-Reply-To: <688901c8ad58$c5583a00$6501a8c0@judy> References: <731bb17a0804301731q124f2d9cm6e6c4aee5ce1e418@mail.gmail.com> <8CA7AA705944067-1034-738@WEBMAIL-STG-D01.sysops.aol.com> <688901c8ad58$c5583a00$6501a8c0@judy> Message-ID: Art-forms don't, in general, need the competitions. It's the marketeers who dream up the competitions. On a mundane level, if you have a job then you need some way to pick someone to fill the job. At this "level" it becomes very political. In the UK, it usually means the smothering of the poet involved. I thought that PL in the US was a "real" job? In the UK, it's a nonce position, sucking up to royalty as if we don't suck up to them enough. Then again, I'm that rare bird an English Republican who believes that we would be better off without a monarchy. Transfer that symbolism to something more representative of England. Roger On Sat, May 3, 2008 at 9:03 PM, judy prince wrote: > > > Howzis, jforjamesFinnegan (I guess--as am new on new-po)? > > Chuck the word "laureate" from the position, recognise that it's a job like > any other (i.e., with work to do and pay to get) and that it deserves > publicity for worker and craft. Then go ahead and democratise the role: > hire a poet a week. > > Further, why do we approve the prostitution of poets and poetry by fawning > over the hierarch-imposing circus of competitions and awards? Wot are those > events proving to us? Wot are they demonstrating to poetry-appreciators and > would-be poets? I've wondered why +art forms+ "need" the delusive boost of > competition. Slightly reconfiguring the old patron networks, our > corporations and individuals (with all the charitable feeling of > missionaries ) promote art-ists through the twinned tactics of our > society: war and capitalism. I'd thought that art might, rather, be the > saddle-burr as well as the Necessary Oasis. > > Judy > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: jforjames@aol.com > To: new-poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > Sent: Friday, May 02, 2008 4:05 PM > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Simic Stepping Down > > I'd like to see the post be given to a woman, preferably in 45-70 year old > range. Not too young, because > there are too many visible and interesting poets and time will be needed to > sort things out. Not too old > because I think it's become an emissary position, and even an activist one. > Jane Hirshfield, Jorie Graham, Alice Notley would be good short list (all > for different reasons) > > Or to a Language Poet for something completely different: Hejinian, > Silliman, Bernstein...could be fun to watch. > > Finnegan > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Jeff Newberry > To: NewPoetry > Sent: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 8:31 pm > Subject: [New-Poetry] Simic Stepping Down > > > Simic stepping aside as U.S. poet laureate > > Published: April 29, 2008 at 2:39 PM > WASHINGTON, April 29 (UPI) -- A lecture on poetry translation will be the > final time Charles Simic speaks as U.S. poet laureate, the Library of > Congress said. > > "I've thoroughly enjoyed this past year," Simic said in a news release. "The > best part of being poet laureate of the United States is working with the > fine, dedicated and learned people at the Library (of Congress)." > > http://www.upi.com/NewsTrack/Entertainment/2008/04/29/simic_stepping_aside_as_us_poet_laureate/7748/ > > > > Who's on deck? Anyone know? > > Got this story via The Poetry Hut (http://www.poetryhut.com/wordpress/) > > Best, > > Jeff Newberry > > -- > "Why are you wearing that stupid *man* suit?" > > http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > ________________________________ > Plan your next roadtrip with MapQuest.com: America's #1 Mapping Site. > > ________________________________ > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- My Stuff: http://www.badstep.net/ "She went out with her paint box, paints the chapel blue She went out with her matches, torched the car-wash too" The Go-Betweens From rog3r.day at gmail.com Mon May 5 06:22:25 2008 From: rog3r.day at gmail.com (Roger Day) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:28 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] laureate In-Reply-To: <8CA7C5779F3E144-1F04-66@webmail-stg-d04.sysops.aol.com> References: <954A5413620E074797298540927621C50D8915B9@sjcexchange.SJC.EDU> <8CA7C5779F3E144-1F04-66@webmail-stg-d04.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: Having a poet laureate is too much like medieval europe for me, poet courtiers and all that. A ministry of culture would suffice. Barely anyone reads their output in this country anyway; it passes by in sublime ignorance. Roger On Mon, May 5, 2008 at 12:41 AM, wrote: > Going back to old label for the post makes sense to me per the Enersonian > ideal of trying to establish a native literary tradition. When the name of > the post was changed it was clearly a 'marketing' decision. Still > 'Consultant' does sound a bit sterile/technical. > > I was thinking that only Poetry, despite its much talked about > marginalization, is the only one of Arts that get such prominant position > both named and paid for by our national government. There is no Symphony > Orchestra Conductor Laureate, no Filmmaker Laureate, no Painter Laureate? > We're special. > > Finnegan > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Barone, Dennis > To: new-poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > Sent: Sun, 4 May 2008 8:56 am > Subject: [New-Poetry] laureate > > > > > > I'd like to see the post of poet laureate of the United States eliminated. > Consultant in Poetry to the Library of Congress sounds ok to me, laureate > does not. > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > ________________________________ > Plan your next roadtrip with MapQuest.com: America's #1 Mapping Site. > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- My Stuff: http://www.badstep.net/ "She went out with her paint box, paints the chapel blue She went out with her matches, torched the car-wash too" The Go-Betweens From anny.ballardini at tin.it Mon May 5 07:41:39 2008 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:28 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] laureate In-Reply-To: References: <954A5413620E074797298540927621C50D8915B9@sjcexchange.SJC.EDU><8CA7C5779F3E144-1F04-66@webmail-stg-d04.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: Laureate, in Italian, laureato, which means graduate. For me it sounds like a promotion, a graduation. Yes, it comes from laurel, why not? If you say Minister (also from Latin origins), you take away the freedom a Laureate enjoys, and s/he will have to sit down at all the boring meetings, I think they should have a Laureate in every country, possibly with that Huge Machine Bob has just invented, that would be interesting... p.s.: I love that 'sublime ignorance' ----- Original Message ----- From: "Roger Day" To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &,Views" Sent: Monday, May 05, 2008 12:22 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] laureate > Having a poet laureate is too much like medieval europe for me, poet > courtiers and all that. A ministry of culture would suffice. Barely > anyone reads their output in this country anyway; it passes by in > sublime ignorance. > > Roger > > On Mon, May 5, 2008 at 12:41 AM, wrote: >> Going back to old label for the post makes sense to me per the Enersonian >> ideal of trying to establish a native literary tradition. When the name >> of >> the post was changed it was clearly a 'marketing' decision. Still >> 'Consultant' does sound a bit sterile/technical. >> >> I was thinking that only Poetry, despite its much talked about >> marginalization, is the only one of Arts that get such prominant position >> both named and paid for by our national government. There is no Symphony >> Orchestra Conductor Laureate, no Filmmaker Laureate, no Painter Laureate? >> We're special. >> >> Finnegan >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Barone, Dennis >> To: new-poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu >> Sent: Sun, 4 May 2008 8:56 am >> Subject: [New-Poetry] laureate >> >> >> >> >> >> I'd like to see the post of poet laureate of the United States >> eliminated. >> Consultant in Poetry to the Library of Congress sounds ok to me, laureate >> does not. > -- > My Stuff: http://www.badstep.net/ > "She went out with her paint box, paints the chapel blue > She went out with her matches, torched the car-wash too" > The Go-Betweens From anny.ballardini at tin.it Mon May 5 07:53:26 2008 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:29 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] =?iso-8859-1?q?Fw=3A_L=27eredit=E0_del_cemento_//_I?= =?iso-8859-1?q?stituto_Polacco_di_Roma_=5F_12_maggio/12_giugno_200?= =?iso-8859-1?q?8?= Message-ID: <414F5AF5E1174D478C15438EE3CA8272@AnnyPC> Skipped content of type multipart/related-------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: =?iso-8859-1?Q?CS_-_L'eredit=E0_del_cemento._Quartiere_radioattivo.doc?= Type: application/msword Size: 216576 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080505/413fd153/iso-8859-1QCS_-_LereditE0_del_cemento._Quartiere_radioattivo.dot -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: scheda - Centro d'Arte Contemporanea Zamek Ujazdowski.doc Type: application/msword Size: 171520 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080505/413fd153/scheda-CentrodArteContemporaneaZamekUjazdowski.doc From Opus40-01 at opus40.org Mon May 5 08:43:24 2008 From: Opus40-01 at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:29 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Simic Stepping Down In-Reply-To: References: <731bb17a0804301731q124f2d9cm6e6c4aee5ce1e418@mail.gmail.com> <8CA7AA705944067-1034-738@WEBMAIL-STG-D01.sysops.aol.com> <688901c8ad58$c5583a00$6501a8c0@judy> Message-ID: <481F00EC.5000208@opus40.org> The competitive instinct is hardly a stranger to the art world. Just ask Picasso, Yeats. Michelangelo, Parker... Roger Day wrote: > Art-forms don't, in general, need the competitions. It's the > marketeers who dream up the competitions. > > On a mundane level, if you have a job then you need some way to pick > someone to fill the job. At this "level" it becomes very political. In > the UK, it usually means the smothering of the poet involved. > > I thought that PL in the US was a "real" job? In the UK, it's a nonce > position, sucking up to royalty as if we don't suck up to them enough. > Then again, I'm that rare bird an English Republican who believes that > we would be better off without a monarchy. Transfer that symbolism to > something more representative of England. > > Roger > > On Sat, May 3, 2008 at 9:03 PM, judy prince wrote: >> >> Howzis, jforjamesFinnegan (I guess--as am new on new-po)? >> >> Chuck the word "laureate" from the position, recognise that it's a job like >> any other (i.e., with work to do and pay to get) and that it deserves >> publicity for worker and craft. Then go ahead and democratise the role: >> hire a poet a week. >> >> Further, why do we approve the prostitution of poets and poetry by fawning >> over the hierarch-imposing circus of competitions and awards? Wot are those >> events proving to us? Wot are they demonstrating to poetry-appreciators and >> would-be poets? I've wondered why +art forms+ "need" the delusive boost of >> competition. Slightly reconfiguring the old patron networks, our >> corporations and individuals (with all the charitable feeling of >> missionaries ) promote art-ists through the twinned tactics of our >> society: war and capitalism. I'd thought that art might, rather, be the >> saddle-burr as well as the Necessary Oasis. >> >> Judy >> >> >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: jforjames@aol.com >> To: new-poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu >> Sent: Friday, May 02, 2008 4:05 PM >> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Simic Stepping Down >> >> I'd like to see the post be given to a woman, preferably in 45-70 year old >> range. Not too young, because >> there are too many visible and interesting poets and time will be needed to >> sort things out. Not too old >> because I think it's become an emissary position, and even an activist one. >> Jane Hirshfield, Jorie Graham, Alice Notley would be good short list (all >> for different reasons) >> >> Or to a Language Poet for something completely different: Hejinian, >> Silliman, Bernstein...could be fun to watch. >> >> Finnegan >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Jeff Newberry >> To: NewPoetry >> Sent: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 8:31 pm >> Subject: [New-Poetry] Simic Stepping Down >> >> >> Simic stepping aside as U.S. poet laureate >> >> Published: April 29, 2008 at 2:39 PM >> WASHINGTON, April 29 (UPI) -- A lecture on poetry translation will be the >> final time Charles Simic speaks as U.S. poet laureate, the Library of >> Congress said. >> >> "I've thoroughly enjoyed this past year," Simic said in a news release. "The >> best part of being poet laureate of the United States is working with the >> fine, dedicated and learned people at the Library (of Congress)." >> >> http://www.upi.com/NewsTrack/Entertainment/2008/04/29/simic_stepping_aside_as_us_poet_laureate/7748/ >> >> >> >> Who's on deck? Anyone know? >> >> Got this story via The Poetry Hut (http://www.poetryhut.com/wordpress/) >> >> Best, >> >> Jeff Newberry >> >> -- >> "Why are you wearing that stupid *man* suit?" >> >> http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> >> ________________________________ >> Plan your next roadtrip with MapQuest.com: America's #1 Mapping Site. >> >> ________________________________ >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > > > -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ The moral is this: in American verse, The better you are, the pay is worse. --Corey Ford From halvard at earthlink.net Mon May 5 09:39:56 2008 From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:29 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] FYRP: Softblow Message-ID: <3CAF19F6-E97B-4B2C-B7A8-269C79A3A0A6@earthlink.net> FYRP-- Begin forwarded message: > From: editor@softblow.com > Date: May 1, 2008 9:49:13 PM GMT-04:00 > To: editor@softblow.com > Subject: SOFTBLOW | Poetry Journal > > SOFTBLOW presents > > New poems by HALVARD JOHNSON, ADAM DEUTSCH & photography by STEPHEN > BLACK. > > Do visit http://www.softblow.com. > "A rose by any other name is a rose by any other name is a rose by any other name is a rose by any other name." --Gertrude Shakespeare (oft. attrib. to Wm. Stein) Halvard Johnson ================ halvard@earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080505/a1221ae5/attachment.html From david.weinstock at gmail.com Mon May 5 09:44:38 2008 From: david.weinstock at gmail.com (David Weinstock) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:29 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Simic Stepping Down In-Reply-To: <481F00EC.5000208@opus40.org> References: <731bb17a0804301731q124f2d9cm6e6c4aee5ce1e418@mail.gmail.com> <8CA7AA705944067-1034-738@WEBMAIL-STG-D01.sysops.aol.com> <688901c8ad58$c5583a00$6501a8c0@judy> <481F00EC.5000208@opus40.org> Message-ID: <437b1e3a0805050644y3d89285fx5f888f5c8a4a8822@mail.gmail.com> The US poet laureate can be a sinecure if the incumbent chooses, but the last few have been strong advocates and ambassadors for poetry, Robert Pinsky especially. For that reason, I wouldn't be surprised if Dana Gioia or Ed Hirsch get the job someday. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080505/256742ce/attachment.html From rog3r.day at gmail.com Mon May 5 09:50:20 2008 From: rog3r.day at gmail.com (Roger Day) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:30 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] laureate In-Reply-To: References: <954A5413620E074797298540927621C50D8915B9@sjcexchange.SJC.EDU> <8CA7C5779F3E144-1F04-66@webmail-stg-d04.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: I like the American idea of a PL, if not the title. Quoted in the Wiki: "The Poet Laureate Consultant in Poetry to the Library of Congress serves as the nation's official lightning rod for the poetic impulse of Americans. During his or her term, the Poet Laureate seeks to raise the national consciousness to a greater appreciation of the reading and writing of poetry." At $35000 per annum, not something to be sneezed at. By contrast, although govt appointed, the PL in the UK is a member of the royal household and AFAIK, is tasked with celebrating the little dears. Amusingly, I can't find anything on the UK PL - how the position is filled, what the duties are, the pay etc etc. I think the UK PL sucks. Roger On Mon, May 5, 2008 at 12:41 PM, Anny Ballardini wrote: > Laureate, in Italian, laureato, which means graduate. For me it sounds like > a promotion, a graduation. Yes, it comes from laurel, why not? If you say > Minister (also from Latin origins), you take away the freedom a Laureate > enjoys, and s/he will have to sit down at all the boring meetings, > I think they should have a Laureate in every country, possibly with that > Huge Machine Bob has just invented, that would be interesting... > > p.s.: I love that 'sublime ignorance' > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Roger Day" > To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &,Views" > > Sent: Monday, May 05, 2008 12:22 PM > > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] laureate > > > > > > > Having a poet laureate is too much like medieval europe for me, poet > > courtiers and all that. A ministry of culture would suffice. Barely > > anyone reads their output in this country anyway; it passes by in > > sublime ignorance. > > > > Roger > > > > On Mon, May 5, 2008 at 12:41 AM, wrote: > > > > > Going back to old label for the post makes sense to me per the > Enersonian > > > ideal of trying to establish a native literary tradition. When the name > of > > > the post was changed it was clearly a 'marketing' decision. Still > > > 'Consultant' does sound a bit sterile/technical. > > > > > > I was thinking that only Poetry, despite its much talked about > > > marginalization, is the only one of Arts that get such prominant > position > > > both named and paid for by our national government. There is no Symphony > > > Orchestra Conductor Laureate, no Filmmaker Laureate, no Painter > Laureate? > > > We're special. > > > > > > Finnegan > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Barone, Dennis > > > To: new-poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > > > Sent: Sun, 4 May 2008 8:56 am > > > Subject: [New-Poetry] laureate > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'd like to see the post of poet laureate of the United States > eliminated. > > > Consultant in Poetry to the Library of Congress sounds ok to me, > laureate > > > does not. > > > > > > > -- > > My Stuff: http://www.badstep.net/ > > "She went out with her paint box, paints the chapel blue > > She went out with her matches, torched the car-wash too" > > The Go-Betweens > > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- My Stuff: http://www.badstep.net/ "She went out with her paint box, paints the chapel blue She went out with her matches, torched the car-wash too" The Go-Betweens From rog3r.day at gmail.com Mon May 5 10:55:34 2008 From: rog3r.day at gmail.com (Roger Day) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:30 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] laureate In-Reply-To: <8CA7C082A6C6A3E-1028-215D@FWM-M08.sysops.aol.com> References: <954A5413620E074797298540927621C50D8915B9@sjcexchange.SJC.EDU> <8CA7C082A6C6A3E-1028-215D@FWM-M08.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: The US "Poet Laureate Consultant", to give the full honorarium, has been "time-honoured" in the USA since 1985. Poetry consultant since 1939, and Robert Frost. The LOC has poetry speicialists, so consultant seems a good, modern title which would sound better over time. Poetry Consultant is something I'd like the British Library have - the national library and the national poet should go hand in hand I think. Does anyone know why the Republicans wanted a Poet Laureate Consultant? To get away from the New Deal? It's not as if they actually seem to like poetry these days - the only Presidents to have a poem read at an inauguration have been Democrats. Carter published a slim volume. Does Bush actually read anything outside the funnies? My, how times have changed. John Quincy Adams wrote - and published - an epic poem. He also used to go skinny-dipping in the Potomac at 5am each day. Someone stole his clothes once, and he had to be rescued by a small boy. It seems incredible at this distance. Roger On Sun, May 4, 2008 at 3:13 PM, wrote: > Dennis, > > > Could you explain your reasoning? I like the idea of a national poet > laureate. It is a time honored tradition and it occasionally even honors a > deserving poet. Maybe in today's diffuse environment a laureate doesn't mean > as much as it once did, if that is your point, but there are so few truly > significant honors an American poet can receive I see no reason to eliminate > this one. > > > Richard > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Barone, Dennis > To: new-poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > Sent: Sun, 4 May 2008 8:56 am > Subject: [New-Poetry] laureate > > > > > I'd like to see the post of poet laureate of the United States eliminated. > Consultant in Poetry to the Library of Congress sounds ok to me, laureate > does not. > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > ________________________________ > Plan your next roadtrip with MapQuest.com: America's #1 Mapping Site. > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- My Stuff: http://www.badstep.net/ "She went out with her paint box, paints the chapel blue She went out with her matches, torched the car-wash too" The Go-Betweens From anny.ballardini at tin.it Mon May 5 11:18:07 2008 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:30 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] FYRP: Softblow In-Reply-To: <3CAF19F6-E97B-4B2C-B7A8-269C79A3A0A6@earthlink.net> References: <3CAF19F6-E97B-4B2C-B7A8-269C79A3A0A6@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <27052D6D9A654494BA771DF879B71BC1@AnnyPC> This is something: "A rose by any other name is a rose by any other name is a rose by any other name is a rose by any other name." --Gertrude Shakespeare (oft. attrib. to Wm. Stein) Halvard Johnson ----- Original Message ----- From: Halvard Johnson To: NewPoetry: & Views Sent: Monday, May 05, 2008 3:39 PM Subject: [New-Poetry] FYRP: Softblow FYRP-- Begin forwarded message: From: editor@softblow.com Date: May 1, 2008 9:49:13 PM GMT-04:00 To: editor@softblow.com Subject: SOFTBLOW | Poetry Journal SOFTBLOW presents New poems by HALVARD JOHNSON, ADAM DEUTSCH & photography by STEPHEN BLACK. Do visit http://www.softblow.com. "A rose by any other name is a rose by any other name is a rose by any other name is a rose by any other name." --Gertrude Shakespeare (oft. attrib. to Wm. Stein) Halvard Johnson ================ halvard@earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.8/1414 - Release Date: 5/4/2008 12:31 PM -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080505/deb2cd4e/attachment.html From Opus40-01 at opus40.org Mon May 5 11:37:40 2008 From: Opus40-01 at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:30 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] FYRP: Softblow In-Reply-To: <3CAF19F6-E97B-4B2C-B7A8-269C79A3A0A6@earthlink.net> References: <3CAF19F6-E97B-4B2C-B7A8-269C79A3A0A6@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <481F29C4.3070508@opus40.org> These are worth clicking the link. Halvard Johnson should be poet laureate, as far as I'm concerned. Halvard Johnson wrote: > > FYRP-- > > > Begin forwarded message: >> *From: *editor@softblow.com >> *Date: *May 1, 2008 9:49:13 PM GMT-04:00 >> *To: *editor@softblow.com >> *Subject: **SOFTBLOW | Poetry Journal* >> >> SOFTBLOW presents >> >> New poems by HALVARD JOHNSON, ADAM DEUTSCH & photography by STEPHEN >> BLACK. >> >> Do visit http://www.softblow.com. >> > > > > "A rose by any other name is a rose by > any other name is a rose by any other > name is a rose by any other name." > --Gertrude Shakespeare > (oft. attrib. to Wm. Stein) > > Halvard Johnson > ================ > halvard@earthlink.net > http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html > > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > http://www.hamiltonstone.org > http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ The moral is this: in American verse, The better you are, the pay is worse. --Corey Ford From Opus40-01 at opus40.org Mon May 5 11:40:10 2008 From: Opus40-01 at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:30 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] laureate In-Reply-To: References: <954A5413620E074797298540927621C50D8915B9@sjcexchange.SJC.EDU> <8CA7C082A6C6A3E-1028-215D@FWM-M08.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <481F2A5A.3080301@opus40.org> Bush doesn't, Laura maybe does. The Bush administration did put a poet (Gioia) in charge of the NEA. Roger Day wrote: > The US "Poet Laureate Consultant", to give the full honorarium, has > been "time-honoured" in the USA since 1985. Poetry consultant since > 1939, and Robert Frost. The LOC has poetry speicialists, so consultant > seems a good, modern title which would sound better over time. > > Poetry Consultant is something I'd like the British Library have - the > national library and the national poet should go hand in hand I think. > > Does anyone know why the Republicans wanted a Poet Laureate > Consultant? To get away from the New Deal? It's not as if they > actually seem to like poetry these days - the only Presidents to have > a poem read at an inauguration have been Democrats. Carter published a > slim volume. Does Bush actually read anything outside the funnies? > > My, how times have changed. John Quincy Adams wrote - and published - > an epic poem. He also used to go skinny-dipping in the Potomac at 5am > each day. Someone stole his clothes once, and he had to be rescued by > a small boy. It seems incredible at this distance. > > Roger > > On Sun, May 4, 2008 at 3:13 PM, wrote: > >> Dennis, >> >> >> Could you explain your reasoning? I like the idea of a national poet >> laureate. It is a time honored tradition and it occasionally even honors a >> deserving poet. Maybe in today's diffuse environment a laureate doesn't mean >> as much as it once did, if that is your point, but there are so few truly >> significant honors an American poet can receive I see no reason to eliminate >> this one. >> >> >> Richard >> >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Barone, Dennis >> To: new-poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu >> Sent: Sun, 4 May 2008 8:56 am >> Subject: [New-Poetry] laureate >> >> >> >> >> I'd like to see the post of poet laureate of the United States eliminated. >> Consultant in Poetry to the Library of Congress sounds ok to me, laureate >> does not. >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> >> ________________________________ >> Plan your next roadtrip with MapQuest.com: America's #1 Mapping Site. >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> >> > > > > -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ The moral is this: in American verse, The better you are, the pay is worse. --Corey Ford From jforjames at aol.com Mon May 5 11:41:38 2008 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames@aol.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:30 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] laureate In-Reply-To: References: <954A5413620E074797298540927621C50D8915B9@sjcexchange.SJC.EDU> <8CA7C5779F3E144-1F04-66@webmail-stg-d04.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <8CA7CDDA41DC785-334-ABE@WEBMAIL-STG-D01.sysops.aol.com> What the post is called aside, I think our Poet Laureate position has the virtue of being a short-term appointment. It can be as short as a year, I believe. Though it's often renewed for a second term if the Laureate wants to go on or has unfinished business. As David W mentioned Pinsky was the first to really take up the post with some gusto and to start an iniatitive specifically designed to promote the art of poetry to the general public. A number of other PL has followed his lead, Billy Collins and Ted Kooser in particular.?Some have been recalcitrant towards taking on?any kind poetry-activist role, notably Louise Gl?ck.? Though $35,000?seems a fair sum. I think they work pretty hard for it. There seems to be quite a bit of traveling to readings and talks hither and thither. I also wonder if there is some 'waiving' or reducing?their typical appearance fees due to respenting?Poet Laureate position?and not just being?'a?poet of some renown'. By the time a poet get the PL position he/she regularly commands pretty?hefty appearance fees, &?often he/she's represented by an agent. So possibly taking the position might be a little bit of?a pay cut.?But that is likely made up quickly after his/her tenure is complete by increased appearance fees and by more?desirable and lucrative reading offers that come one's way by virtue of being the former Poet Laureate. Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: Roger Day Sent: Mon, 5 May 2008 9:50 am Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] laureate I like the American idea of a PL, if not the title. Quoted in the Wiki: The Poet Laureate Consultant in Poetry to the Library of Congress erves as the nation's official lightning rod for the poetic impulse f Americans. During his or her term, the Poet Laureate seeks to raise he national consciousness to a greater appreciation of the reading nd writing of poetry." At $35000 per annum, not something to be sneezed at. By contrast, although govt appointed, the PL in the UK is a member of he royal household and AFAIK, is tasked with celebrating the little ears. Amusingly, I can't find anything on the UK PL - how the osition is filled, what the duties are, the pay etc etc. I think the K PL sucks. Roger On Mon, May 5, 2008 at 12:41 PM, Anny Ballardini wrote: Laureate, in Italian, laureato, which means graduate. For me it sounds like a promotion, a graduation. Yes, it comes from laurel, why not? If you say Minister (also from Latin origins), you take away the freedom a Laureate enjoys, and s/he will have to sit down at all the boring meetings, I think they should have a Laureate in every country, possibly with that Huge Machine Bob has just invented, that would be interesting... p.s.: I love that 'sublime ignorance' ----- Original Message ----- From: "Roger Day" To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &,Views" Sent: Monday, May 05, 2008 12:22 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] laureate > > Having a poet laureate is too much like medieval europe for me, poet > courtiers and all that. A ministry of culture would suffice. Barely > anyone reads their output in this country anyway; it passes by in > sublime ignorance. > > Roger > > On Mon, May 5, 2008 at 12:41 AM, wrote: > > > Going back to old label for the post makes sense to me per the Enersonian > > ideal of trying to establish a native literary tradition. When the name of > > the post was changed it was clearly a 'marketing' decision. Still > > 'Consultant' does sound a bit sterile/technical. > > > > I was thinking that only Poetry, despite its much talked about > > marginalization, is the only one of Arts that get such prominant position > > both named and paid for by our national government. There is no Symphony > > Orchestra Conductor Laureate, no Filmmaker Laureate, no Painter Laureate? > > We're special. > > > > Finnegan > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Barone, Dennis > > To: new-poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > > Sent: Sun, 4 May 2008 8:56 am > > Subject: [New-Poetry] laureate > > > > > > > > > > > > I'd like to see the post of poet laureate of the United States eliminated. > > Consultant in Poetry to the Library of Congress sounds ok to me, laureate > > does not. > > > > -- > My Stuff: http://www.badstep.net/ > "She went out with her paint box, paints the chapel blue > She went out with her matches, torched the car-wash too" > The Go-Betweens > _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -- y Stuff: http://www.badstep.net/ She went out with her paint box, paints the chapel blue he went out with her matches, torched the car-wash too" he Go-Betweens ______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080505/e2f5f149/attachment.html From grahamd at ripon.edu Mon May 5 12:03:25 2008 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:30 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: laureate In-Reply-To: <481F2A5A.3080301@opus40.org> References: <954A5413620E074797298540927621C50D8915B9@sjcexchange.SJC.EDU> <8CA7C082A6C6A3E-1028-215D@FWM-M08.sysops.aol.com> <481F2A5A.3080301@opus40.org> Message-ID: <795F4887-17E2-4CEC-9F67-0153AFFF6DC4@ripon.edu> It's probably wishful thinking to believe that any President has much input or desire for input on decisions about Poets Laureate. NEA Chair, maybe. Officially, the poet is chosen by the Librarian of Congress, after due consultation, which as I imagine it probably includes at least a call to the White House or some sort of vetting process. But I'm not sure: does anyone actually know? Could be that any oversight is up to Congress, not the White House. Anyway, for the Laureate I imagine that the selection process is handed off to someone considerably lower on the food chain than anyone in the Oval Office. Of course, any Librarian of Congress would possess a certain amount of political savvy. So it would be expected that he would not name someone who might cause embarrassment to the administration--so don't look for Amiri Baraka to be named any time soon. Likewise it was never Ginsberg (or even Lowell during Vietnam--he served one stint, in 1947-8). Perhaps the most shocking omission has been Adrienne Rich. But I'm sure she would have been eliminated from consideration early in the vetting process, for the obvious reasons. In any case, as I ritualistically announce when this subject arises, the PL position is *not* government funded. It's run on a private endowment, administered by the Library of Congress. And since the stipend is probably a third or less of what the average full professor makes, it's not exactly a "job" in the usual sense. There are very few duties, and the recent public initiatives undertaken by Dove, Hass, Pinsky, Collins, et al. have been unrequired labors of love. Not that I'm crying over the shameful exploitation of Robert Pinsky or Ted Kooser. I'm sure the honor is a real gravy train in terms of ancillary stuff--readings, lecture fees, books back in print, calls from NPR, etc. I don't see that the position does much harm, and, in the case of something like Collins's Poetry 180 project, I've seen at first hand the good that can result. Talk to a high school teacher of English sometime about that one. ======================================== David Graham grahamd@ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.mac.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080505/e9e1a148/attachment.html From rog3r.day at gmail.com Mon May 5 14:00:04 2008 From: rog3r.day at gmail.com (Roger Day) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:30 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] laureate In-Reply-To: <481F2A5A.3080301@opus40.org> References: <954A5413620E074797298540927621C50D8915B9@sjcexchange.SJC.EDU> <8CA7C082A6C6A3E-1028-215D@FWM-M08.sysops.aol.com> <481F2A5A.3080301@opus40.org> Message-ID: I'd forgotten about Dana Gioia. Yes, kudos to the Bush administration for his appointment. However, he's a very safe pair of hands - an ex-suit - unlikely to upset Midwest voters with a Mabblethorpe-type exhibition. Roger On Mon, May 5, 2008 at 4:40 PM, TheOldMole wrote: > Bush doesn't, Laura maybe does. The Bush administration did put a poet > (Gioia) in charge of the NEA. -- My Stuff: http://www.badstep.net/ "She went out with her paint box, paints the chapel blue She went out with her matches, torched the car-wash too" The Go-Betweens From jforjames at aol.com Mon May 5 14:56:31 2008 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames@aol.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:30 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: laureate In-Reply-To: <795F4887-17E2-4CEC-9F67-0153AFFF6DC4@ripon.edu> References: <954A5413620E074797298540927621C50D8915B9@sjcexchange.SJC.EDU> <8CA7C082A6C6A3E-1028-215D@FWM-M08.sysops.aol.com> <481F2A5A.3080301@opus40.org> <795F4887-17E2-4CEC-9F67-0153AFFF6DC4@ripon.edu> Message-ID: <8CA7CF8DE01B6D9-100-990@webmail-stg-d10.sysops.aol.com> even Lowell during Vietnam--he served one stint, in 1947-8).?? -- I didn't realize this. Wasn't Lowell a CO during WWII? That would've make him a controversial pick on the heels of the war years. Finnegan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080505/35733ebd/attachment.html From jforjames at aol.com Mon May 5 15:06:09 2008 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames@aol.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:30 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Cornelius Eady on NPR's Fresh Air Message-ID: <8CA7CFA363B0A92-100-A37@webmail-stg-d10.sysops.aol.com> http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=90184195 Poet's 'Hardheaded' Reflection on Life Listen Now [14 min 57 sec] add to playlist Chip Cooper Poet Cornelius Eady's new book is titled HardHeaded Weather: New and Selected Poems. Putnam Books Fresh Air from WHYY, May 5, 2008 ? In his new collection, Hardheaded Weather: New and Selected Poems, poet Cornelius Eady writes of his transition from urban renter to rural homeowner and the encroachment of middle age. Eady's previous collection, Brutal Imagination, was a finalist for the 2001 National Book Award in Poetry. He has collaborated with jazz composer Deidre Murray in the production of several works of musical theater including "You Don't Miss Your Water" and "Running Man," which was a finalist for the Pulitzer Prize in Drama in 1999. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080505/df6c7c8f/attachment.html From anny.ballardini at tin.it Mon May 5 15:12:21 2008 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:30 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: laureate In-Reply-To: <8CA7CF8DE01B6D9-100-990@webmail-stg-d10.sysops.aol.com> References: <954A5413620E074797298540927621C50D8915B9@sjcexchange.SJC.EDU> <8CA7C082A6C6A3E-1028-215D@FWM-M08.sysops.aol.com> <481F2A5A.3080301@opus40.org><795F4887-17E2-4CEC-9F67-0153AFFF6DC4@ripon.edu> <8CA7CF8DE01B6D9-100-990@webmail-stg-d10.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: It seems that James is right, from Wikipedia the incredible ancestors of his mother, and his brief bio: Robert Lowell was born in Boston, Massachusetts to a Boston Brahmin family that included the poets Amy Lowell and James Russell Lowell. His mother, Charlotte Winslow, was a direct descendant of William Samuel Johnson, a signer of the United States Constitution, Jonathan Edwards, the famed philosopher, Anne Hutchinson, the Puritan preacher and healer, Robert Livingston the Elder, Thomas Dudley, the second governor of Massachusetts, and Mayflower passengers James Chilton and his daughter Mary Chilton. He was at St. Mark's School, a prominent prep-school in Southborough, Mass, before attending Harvard College for two years and transferring to Kenyon College in Gambier, Ohio, to study under John Crowe Ransom.[1] He converted from Episcopalianism to Catholicism,[2] which influenced his first two books, Land of Unlikeness (1944) and the Pulitzer Prize winning Lord Weary's Castle (1946). In 1950, Lowell was included in the influential anthology Mid-Century American Poets as one of the key literary figures of his generation. Among his contemporaries who also appeared in that book were Muriel Rukeyser, Karl Shapiro, Elizabeth Bishop, Theodore Roethke, Randall Jarrell, and John Ciardi, all poets who came into prominence in the 1940s. Lowell was a conscientious objector during World War II and served several months at the federal prison in Danbury, Connecticut. During the 1960s he was active in the civil rights movement and opposed the US involvement in Vietnam. His participation in the October 1967 peace march in Washington, DC, and his subsequent arrest are described in the early sections of Norman Mailer's The Armies of the Night. Lowell suffered with alcoholism and manic depression and was hospitalized many times throughout his life. He was married to novelist Jean Stafford from 1940 to 1948. In 1949 he married the writer Elizabeth Hardwick. In 1970 he left Elizabeth Hardwick for the British author Lady Caroline Blackwood. He spent many of his last years in England. Lowell died in 1977, having suffered a heart attack in a cab in New York City on his way to see Elizabeth Hardwick. He is buried in Stark Cemetery, Dunbarton, New Hampshire. Lowell's collected poems were published in 2003 and his letters in 2005, leading to a renewed interest in his work. ----- Original Message ----- From: jforjames@aol.com To: new-poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Monday, May 05, 2008 8:56 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Re: laureate even Lowell during Vietnam--he served one stint, in 1947-8). -- I didn't realize this. Wasn't Lowell a CO during WWII? That would've make him a controversial pick on the heels of the war years. Finnegan ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Plan your next roadtrip with MapQuest.com: America's #1 Mapping Site. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.8/1414 - Release Date: 5/4/2008 12:31 PM -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080505/1095d2c0/attachment.html From jforjames at aol.com Mon May 5 15:15:20 2008 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames@aol.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:30 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] WorldPo: Korea Message-ID: <8CA7CFB7EF77E24-100-AE5@webmail-stg-d10.sysops.aol.com> http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/news/art/2008/05/244_23684.html Korea Times online 05-05-2008 19:26???? ? Traditional Korean Poetry Has Rich History? By Choi Yearn-hong Not many people in this modern age read much poetry. Koreans, however, are an exception. Each year South Korea publishes more than 200 good poetry books, which on average sell 1,000 to 2,000 copies each. These numbers have declined since the 1970s, when a couple of Korean poets sold more than one million copies of their poetry books. Still, the market for poetry in South Korea today is the envy of American poets, who along with their European counterparts cannot expect such widespread readership. Korean poetry also has a rich history. In my opinion, the best collection of classical Korean verse in translation is ``The Columbia Anthology of Traditional Korean Poetry'' edited by Peter Lee, and published by Columbia University Press. >From this book, we can find a significant relationship between the past and present of the Korean poetry. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080505/54a83431/attachment.html From grahamd at ripon.edu Mon May 5 15:15:45 2008 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:31 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: laureate In-Reply-To: <8CA7CF8DE01B6D9-100-990@webmail-stg-d10.sysops.aol.com> References: <954A5413620E074797298540927621C50D8915B9@sjcexchange.SJC.EDU> <8CA7C082A6C6A3E-1028-215D@FWM-M08.sysops.aol.com> <481F2A5A.3080301@opus40.org> <795F4887-17E2-4CEC-9F67-0153AFFF6DC4@ripon.edu> <8CA7CF8DE01B6D9-100-990@webmail-stg-d10.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <9614D37A-D5BA-4793-8B97-840EE63F1803@ripon.edu> Yeah, Lowell was political, even back then. But the position was far less visible then, also. Here's a list of holders of the position: U.S. Poet Laureate Timeline 1937-1941 ? Joseph Auslander 1943-1944 ? Allen Tate 1944-1945 ?Robert Penn Warren 1945-1946 ? Louise Bogan 1946-1947 ? Karl Shapiro 1947-1948 ? Robert Lowell 1948-1949 ? Leonie Adams 1949-1950 ? Elizabeth Bishop 1950 - 1952 ? Conrad Aiken 1952 ? William Carlos Williams 1956-1958 ? Randall Jarrell 1958-1959 ? Robert Frost 1959-1961 ? Richard Eberhart 1961-1963 ? Louis Untermeyer 1963-1964 ? Howard Nemerov 1964-1965 ? Reed Whittemore 1965-1966 ? Stephen Spender 1966-1968 ? James Dickey 1968-1970 ? William Jay Smith 1970-1971 ? William Stafford 1971-1973 ? Josephine Jacobsen 1973-1974 ? Daniel Hoffman 1974-1976 ? Stanley Kunitz 1976-1978 ? Robert Hayden 1978-1980 ? William Meredith 1981-1982 ? Maxine Kumin 1982-1984 ? Anthony Hecht 1984-1985 ? Robert Fitzgerald 1984-1985 ? Reed Whittemore 1985-1986 ? Gwendolyn Brooks 1986-1987 ? Robert Penn Warren 1987-1988 ? Richard Wilbur 1988-1990 ? Howard Nemerov 1990-1991 ? Mark Strand 1991-1992 ? Joseph Brodsky 1992-1993 ? Mona Van Duyn 1993-1995 ? Rita Dove 1995-1997 ? Robert Hass 1997-2000 ? Robert Pinsky 1999-2000 ? Special Bicentennial Consultants, 1999-2000: Rita Dove, Louise Gl?ck, and W.S. Merwin 2000-2001 ? Stanley Kunitz 2001-2003 ? Billy Collins 2003-2004 ? Louise Gl?ck 2004-2006 ? Ted Kooser 2006 ? Donald Hall 2007---Charles Simic ======================================== David Graham grahamd@ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.mac.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== On May 5, 2008, at 1:56 PM, jforjames@aol.com wrote: > > even Lowell during Vietnam--he served one stint, in 1947-8). > > -- > I didn't realize this. Wasn't Lowell a CO during WWII? That > would've make him a controversial pick on the heels of the war years. > Finnegan > > Plan your next roadtrip with MapQuest.com: America's #1 Mapping Site. > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080505/595a874d/attachment.html From robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com Mon May 5 15:34:26 2008 From: robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com (Robin Hamilton) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:31 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: laureate References: <954A5413620E074797298540927621C50D8915B9@sjcexchange.SJC.EDU> <8CA7C082A6C6A3E-1028-215D@FWM-M08.sysops.aol.com> <481F2A5A.3080301@opus40.org><795F4887-17E2-4CEC-9F67-0153AFFF6DC4@ripon.edu><8CA7CF8DE01B6D9-100-990@webmail-stg-d10.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <00ea01c8aee7$07a60ba0$4201a8c0@HP10652193472> From: Anny Ballardini: << It seems that James is right, from Wikipedia the incredible ancestors of his mother ... >> The New England social structure ... The Lowells talk only to Cabots And the Cabots talk only to god. R. From jforjames at aol.com Mon May 5 15:42:14 2008 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames@aol.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:31 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: laureate In-Reply-To: <9614D37A-D5BA-4793-8B97-840EE63F1803@ripon.edu> References: <954A5413620E074797298540927621C50D8915B9@sjcexchange.SJC.EDU> <8CA7C082A6C6A3E-1028-215D@FWM-M08.sysops.aol.com> <481F2A5A.3080301@opus40.org> <795F4887-17E2-4CEC-9F67-0153AFFF6DC4@ripon.edu> <8CA7CF8DE01B6D9-100-990@webmail-stg-d10.sysops.aol.com> <9614D37A-D5BA-4793-8B97-840EE63F1803@ripon.edu> Message-ID: <8CA7CFF40EED9E7-100-C81@webmail-stg-d10.sysops.aol.com> There's another CO on the list...Wm. Stafford. 70-71. William Jay Smith is 100 (if he's still with us). And Reed Whittemore is close behind at 99, and?it seems he had two terms. Kunitz had already broken thru the century mark when he got his second stint. Wouldn't you say that the post became more visible when it got renamed Poet Laureate? It might have been about as well known as the Bollingen before then. Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: David Graham Sent: Mon, 5 May 2008 3:15 pm Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: laureate Yeah, Lowell was political, even back then. ?But the position was far less visible then, also. Here's a list of holders of the position: U.S. Poet Laureate Timeline? ? 1937-1941 ? Joseph Auslander 1943-1944 ? Allen Tate 1944-1945 ?Robert Penn Warren 1945-1946 ? Louise Bogan 1946-1947 ? Karl Shapiro 1947-1948 ? Robert Lowell 1948-1949 ? Leonie Adams 1949-1950 ? Elizabeth Bishop 1950 - 1952 ? Conrad Aiken 1952 ? William Carlos Williams 1956-1958 ? Randall Jarrell 1958-1959 ? Robert Frost 1959-1961 ? Richard Eberhart 1961-1963 ? Louis Untermeyer 1963-1964 ? Howard Nemerov 1964-1965 ? Reed Whittemore 1965-1966 ? Stephen Spender 1966-1968 ? James Dickey 1968-1970 ? William Jay Smith 1970-1971 ? William Stafford 1971-1973 ? Josephine Jacobsen 1973-1974 ? Daniel Hoffman 1974-1976 ? Stanley Kunitz 1976-1978 ? Robert Hayden 1978-1980 ? William Meredith 1981-1982 ? Maxine Kumin 1982-1984 ? Anthony Hecht 1984-1985 ? Robert Fitzgerald 1984-1985 ? Reed Whittemore 1985-1986 ? Gwendolyn Brooks 1986-1987 ? Robert Penn Warren 1987-1988 ? Richard Wilbur 1988-1990 ? Howard Nemerov 1990-1991 ? Mark Strand 1991-1992 ? Joseph Brodsky 1992-1993 ? Mona Van Duyn 1993-1995 ? Rita Dove 1995-1997 ? Robert Hass 1997-2000 ? Robert Pinsky 1999-2000 ? Special Bicentennial Consultants, 1999-2000: Rita Dove, Louise Gl?ck, and W.S. Merwin 2000-2001 ? Stanley Kunitz 2001-2003 ? Billy Collins 2003-2004 ? Louise Gl?ck 2004-2006 ? Ted Kooser 2006 ? Donald Hall 2007---Charles Simic ======================================== David Graham grahamd@ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.mac.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== On May 5, 2008, at 1:56 PM, jforjames@aol.com wrote: even Lowell during Vietnam--he served one stint, in 1947-8).?? -- I didn't realize this. Wasn't Lowell a CO during WWII? That would've make him a controversial pick on the heels of the war years. Finnegan ? Plan your next roadtrip with MapQuest.com: America's #1 Mapping Site. _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry = _______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080505/d36b3430/attachment.html From robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com Mon May 5 15:52:42 2008 From: robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com (Robin Hamilton) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:31 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: laureate References: <954A5413620E074797298540927621C50D8915B9@sjcexchange.SJC.EDU> <8CA7C082A6C6A3E-1028-215D@FWM-M08.sysops.aol.com><481F2A5A.3080301@opus40.org> <795F4887-17E2-4CEC-9F67-0153AFFF6DC4@ripon.edu> Message-ID: <00f801c8aee9$957bca30$4201a8c0@HP10652193472> I've been brooding over this, and a couple of things I came up with are ... Is a Poet Laureate Hot Dog or Top Dog? ... and ... The closest analogy to the position(s) of poet laureate are religious -- Roman Catholic, Anglican Compromise, or Presbyterian. It's all to do with wreaths, i'ntit? The palm, the oak, the bays ... You tramp on a town (delendo est Carthago) and you get an oak wreath, you win the marathon at the Olympics (without the use of steroids) and you're awarded the palm. Hot dog poets get the laurel wreath ... [After the 14thC in Europe ... late entrants.] Interesting that the earliest European laureates were -- Petrarch and Skelton -- both self-crowned. ... so the poetic crown pickabacks on genocide. (Oak wreaths before laurel leaves.) So far so good -- Petrarch and Skelton might both have been egotistical buggers but they did get it right -- no one would quarrel with their self-choice. But it's when you institutionalise the business that problems start. Ben Jonson was probably partly self-appointed and partly lion-on-the-egg stamped by Jimmy the Sixth and One. But once he's there, you *have to have a poet laureate. Like the Pope or the Archbishop of Canterbury ... Since Jonson, the *English laureateship has been the obvious mingled with the hysterically funny. But you have to have one, until the previous one dies. >From that perspective, the appointment of Andrew Motion actually makes a weird kind of sense -- you don't have to choose between Heaney, Wallcott, Harrison, and Fanthorpe-- put in a place marker, and hope when he dies, there'll be an Obvious Candidate. Mark on the ballot paper, "None of the above." So the English Laureateship is tending to the Anglican Compromise -- they don't have to die, but may resign. The Church of Scotland, truly democratic, primus inter pares, elects a new Moderator every (or is it three?) years. Which is fine, unless you're a member of the Wee Free or the Plymouth Betheren. All shall take part, and many shall have prizes. The American System seeems to be closest to the Presbyterian Communion. Which is fine and Deeply Democratic, but please don't usurp the term "laureate". R. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080505/6f5140ae/attachment.html From jforjames at aol.com Mon May 5 16:01:45 2008 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames@aol.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:31 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: laureate In-Reply-To: <00f801c8aee9$957bca30$4201a8c0@HP10652193472> References: <954A5413620E074797298540927621C50D8915B9@sjcexchange.SJC.EDU> <8CA7C082A6C6A3E-1028-215D@FWM-M08.sysops.aol.com><481F2A5A.3080301@opus40.org> <795F4887-17E2-4CEC-9F67-0153AFFF6DC4@ripon.edu> <00f801c8aee9$957bca30$4201a8c0@HP10652193472> Message-ID: <8CA7D01FAE731B5-4FC-676@webmail-stg-d02.sysops.aol.com> Robin, can we Poet Laureate of ESL? The American System seeems to be closest to the Presbyterian Communion. ? Which is fine and Deeply Democratic, but please don't usurp the term "laureate". ? R. -- -----Original Message----- From: Robin Hamilton Sent: Mon, 5 May 2008 3:52 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Re: laureate I've been brooding over this, and a couple of things I came up with are ... ? ??? ??? Is a Poet Laureate Hot Dog or Top Dog? ? ... and ... ? ??? The closest analogy to the position(s) of poet laureate are religious -- Roman Catholic, Anglican Compromise, or Presbyterian. ? It's all to do with wreaths, i'ntit?? The palm, the oak, the bays ...? You tramp on a town (delendo est Carthago) and you get an oak wreath, you win the marathon at?the Olympics (without the use of steroids) and you're awarded the palm.? Hot dog poets get the laurel wreath ... ? ??? ??? [After the 14thC in Europe ...? late entrants.] ? Interesting that the earliest European laureates were -- Petrarch and Skelton -- both self-crowned. ? ??? ??? ... so the poetic crown pickabacks on genocide.? (Oak wreaths before laurel leaves.) ? So far so good -- Petrarch and Skelton might both have been egotistical buggers but they did get it right -- no one would quarrel with their self-choice. ? But it's when you institutionalise the business that problems start. ? Ben Jonson was probably partly self-appointed and partly lion-on-the-egg stamped by Jimmy the Sixth and One. ? But once he's there, you *have to have a poet laureate. ? Like the Pope or the Archbishop of Canterbury ... ? Since Jonson, the *English laureateship has been the obvious mingled with the hysterically funny. ? ??? ??? But you have to have one, until the previous one dies. ? >From that perspective, the appointment of Andrew Motion actually makes a weird kind of sense -- you don't have to choose between Heaney, Wallcott, Harrison, and Fanthorpe-- put in a place marker, and hope when he dies, there'll be an Obvious Candidate. ? Mark on the ballot paper, "None of the above." ? So the English Laureateship is tending to the Anglican Compromise -- they don't have to die, but may resign. ? The Church of Scotland, truly democratic, primus inter pares, elects a new Moderator every (or is it three?) years. ? Which is fine, unless you're a member of the Wee Free or the Plymouth Betheren. ? All shall take part, and many shall have prizes. ? The American System seeems to be closest to the Presbyterian Communion. ? Which is fine and Deeply Democratic, but please don't usurp the term "laureate". ? R. _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080505/92964c6f/attachment.html From Opus40-01 at opus40.org Mon May 5 16:04:59 2008 From: Opus40-01 at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:31 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] laureate In-Reply-To: References: <954A5413620E074797298540927621C50D8915B9@sjcexchange.SJC.EDU> <8CA7C082A6C6A3E-1028-215D@FWM-M08.sysops.aol.com> <481F2A5A.3080301@opus40.org> Message-ID: <481F686B.6080904@opus40.org> I don't really have a problem with an establishment position going to an establishment figure. I'm glad poetry is sufficiently recognized in the US, death knells notwithstanding, that it has both an establishment and a fringe. Now if I could only figure out which one I'm in.... Roger Day wrote: > I'd forgotten about Dana Gioia. Yes, kudos to the Bush administration > for his appointment. However, he's a very safe pair of hands - an > ex-suit - unlikely to upset Midwest voters with a Mabblethorpe-type > exhibition. > > Roger > > On Mon, May 5, 2008 at 4:40 PM, TheOldMole wrote: >> Bush doesn't, Laura maybe does. The Bush administration did put a poet >> (Gioia) in charge of the NEA. > -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ The moral is this: in American verse, The better you are, the pay is worse. --Corey Ford From david.bircumshaw at ntlworld.com Mon May 5 16:22:12 2008 From: david.bircumshaw at ntlworld.com (David Bircumshaw) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:31 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: laureate In-Reply-To: References: <954A5413620E074797298540927621C50D8915B9@sjcexchange.SJC.EDU> <8CA7C082A6C6A3E-1028-215D@FWM-M08.sysops.aol.com> <481F2A5A.3080301@opus40.org><795F4887-17E2-4CEC-9F67-0153AFFF6DC4@ripon.edu> <8CA7CF8DE01B6D9-100-990@webmail-stg-d10.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <481F6C74.1050603@ntlworld.com> Sometime in the 1960s the CIA also sent on him on a reading tour to Latin America to counter the influence of Neruda. I know that seems weird, but, there again, so's our Poet Laureate's official salary. I am told, though, that Andrew Motion wears the most marvellous silk ties. This, admiringly, by a pair of Midlands literary editors. > It seems that James is right, from Wikipedia the incredible ancestors > of his mother, and his brief bio: > > > Robert Lowell was born in Boston, Massachusetts > to a Boston > Brahmin family that > included the poets Amy Lowell > and James Russell Lowell > . His mother, > Charlotte Winslow, was a direct descendant of William Samuel Johnson > , a signer of the > United States Constitution > , Jonathan > Edwards > , the > famed philosopher, Anne Hutchinson > , the Puritan preacher > and healer, Robert Livingston the Elder > , Thomas > Dudley , the second > governor of Massachusetts, and /Mayflower > / passengers James Chilton > and his daughter Mary > Chilton . He was at St. > Mark's School, a prominent prep-school in Southborough, Mass, before > attending Harvard College > for two years and > transferring to Kenyon College > in Gambier, Ohio, to > study under John Crowe Ransom > .^[1] > He > converted from Episcopalianism to Catholicism,^[2] > which > influenced his first two books, /Land of Unlikeness/ (1944 > ) and the Pulitzer Prize > winning /Lord Weary's Castle/ (1946 > ). In 1950 > , Lowell was included in > the influential anthology /Mid-Century American Poets/ as one of the > key literary figures of his generation. Among his contemporaries who > also appeared in that book were Muriel Rukeyser > , Karl Shapiro > , Elizabeth Bishop > , Theodore Roethke > , Randall Jarrell > , and John Ciardi > , all poets who came into > prominence in the 1940s. > > Lowell was a conscientious objector > during World War > II and served several > months at the federal prison in Danbury, Connecticut > . > During the 1960s he was active in the civil rights movement and > opposed the US involvement in Vietnam. His participation in the > October 1967 peace march in Washington, DC > , and his subsequent > arrest are described in the early sections of Norman Mailer > 's /The Armies of the Night/. > > Lowell suffered with alcoholism > and manic depression > and was hospitalized > many times throughout his life. He was married to novelist Jean > Stafford from 1940 to > 1948. In 1949 he married the writer Elizabeth Hardwick > . In 1970 he left > Elizabeth Hardwick for the British author Lady Caroline Blackwood > . He spent many of > his last years in England. Lowell died in 1977, having suffered a > heart attack in a cab in New York City on his way to see Elizabeth > Hardwick . He is > buried in Stark Cemetery, Dunbarton, New Hampshire > . > > Lowell's collected poems were published in 2003 > and his letters in 2005 > , leading to a renewed > interest in his work. > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* jforjames@aol.com > *To:* new-poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > *Sent:* Monday, May 05, 2008 8:56 PM > *Subject:* Re: [New-Poetry] Re: laureate > > > even Lowell during Vietnam--he served one stint, in 1947-8). > > > -- > I didn't realize this. Wasn't Lowell a CO during WWII? That would've > make him a controversial pick on the heels of the war years. > Finnegan > -- David Bircumshaw Website and A Chide's Alphabet http://homepage.ntlworld.com/david.bircumshaw/ The Animal Subsides http://www.arrowheadpress.co.uk/books/animal.html Leicester Poetry Society: http://www.poetryleicester.co.uk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080505/2d86dbf0/attachment.html From rog3r.day at gmail.com Mon May 5 16:37:36 2008 From: rog3r.day at gmail.com (Roger Day) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:31 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: laureate In-Reply-To: <481F6C74.1050603@ntlworld.com> References: <954A5413620E074797298540927621C50D8915B9@sjcexchange.SJC.EDU> <8CA7C082A6C6A3E-1028-215D@FWM-M08.sysops.aol.com> <481F2A5A.3080301@opus40.org> <795F4887-17E2-4CEC-9F67-0153AFFF6DC4@ripon.edu> <8CA7CF8DE01B6D9-100-990@webmail-stg-d10.sysops.aol.com> <481F6C74.1050603@ntlworld.com> Message-ID: There's a wonderful story in Stonor Saunders book "Who pays the piper" about Lowell (drunk of course) in an open-top car with driver careering through the Buenos Aires night. Lowell is standing up giving Nazi salutes and shouting nazi slogans. Lowell, like all the rest of the puppets, was paid through the Congress for Cultural Freedom, the CIA front organisation. I believe they paid off a UK mag as well. Roger On Mon, May 5, 2008 at 9:22 PM, David Bircumshaw wrote: > > Sometime in the 1960s the CIA also sent on him on a reading tour to Latin > America to counter the influence of Neruda. I know that seems weird, but, > there again, so's our Poet Laureate's official salary. > > I am told, though, that Andrew Motion wears the most marvellous silk ties. > This, admiringly, by a pair of Midlands literary editors. > > > > > It seems that James is right, from Wikipedia the incredible ancestors of his > mother, and his brief bio: > > > > Robert Lowell was born in Boston, Massachusetts to a Boston Brahmin family > that included the poets Amy Lowell and James Russell Lowell. His mother, > Charlotte Winslow, was a direct descendant of William Samuel Johnson, a > signer of the United States Constitution, Jonathan Edwards, the famed > philosopher, Anne Hutchinson, the Puritan preacher and healer, Robert > Livingston the Elder, Thomas Dudley, the second governor of Massachusetts, > and Mayflower passengers James Chilton and his daughter Mary Chilton. He was > at St. Mark's School, a prominent prep-school in Southborough, Mass, before > attending Harvard College for two years and transferring to Kenyon College > in Gambier, Ohio, to study under John Crowe Ransom.[1] He converted from > Episcopalianism to Catholicism,[2] which influenced his first two books, > Land of Unlikeness (1944) and the Pulitzer Prize winning Lord Weary's Castle > (1946). In 1950, Lowell was included in the influential anthology > Mid-Century American Poets as one of the key literary figures of his > generation. Among his contemporaries who also appeared in that book were > Muriel Rukeyser, Karl Shapiro, Elizabeth Bishop, Theodore Roethke, Randall > Jarrell, and John Ciardi, all poets who came into prominence in the 1940s. > > Lowell was a conscientious objector during World War II and served several > months at the federal prison in Danbury, Connecticut. During the 1960s he > was active in the civil rights movement and opposed the US involvement in > Vietnam. His participation in the October 1967 peace march in Washington, > DC, and his subsequent arrest are described in the early sections of Norman > Mailer's The Armies of the Night. > > Lowell suffered with alcoholism and manic depression and was hospitalized > many times throughout his life. He was married to novelist Jean Stafford > from 1940 to 1948. In 1949 he married the writer Elizabeth Hardwick. In 1970 > he left Elizabeth Hardwick for the British author Lady Caroline Blackwood. > He spent many of his last years in England. Lowell died in 1977, having > suffered a heart attack in a cab in New York City on his way to see > Elizabeth Hardwick. He is buried in Stark Cemetery, Dunbarton, New > Hampshire. > > Lowell's collected poems were published in 2003 and his letters in 2005, > leading to a renewed interest in his work. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: jforjames@aol.com > To: new-poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > Sent: Monday, May 05, 2008 8:56 PM > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Re: laureate > > > > even Lowell during Vietnam--he served one stint, in 1947-8). > > -- > I didn't realize this. Wasn't Lowell a CO during WWII? That would've make > him a controversial pick on the heels of the war years. > Finnegan > > > > -- > > David Bircumshaw > Website and A Chide's Alphabet > http://homepage.ntlworld.com/david.bircumshaw/ > The Animal Subsides http://www.arrowheadpress.co.uk/books/animal.html > Leicester Poetry Society: http://www.poetryleicester.co.uk > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- My Stuff: http://www.badstep.net/ "She went out with her paint box, paints the chapel blue She went out with her matches, torched the car-wash too" The Go-Betweens From rog3r.day at gmail.com Mon May 5 16:46:07 2008 From: rog3r.day at gmail.com (Roger Day) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:31 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: laureate In-Reply-To: <8CA7CFF40EED9E7-100-C81@webmail-stg-d10.sysops.aol.com> References: <954A5413620E074797298540927621C50D8915B9@sjcexchange.SJC.EDU> <8CA7C082A6C6A3E-1028-215D@FWM-M08.sysops.aol.com> <481F2A5A.3080301@opus40.org> <795F4887-17E2-4CEC-9F67-0153AFFF6DC4@ripon.edu> <8CA7CF8DE01B6D9-100-990@webmail-stg-d10.sysops.aol.com> <9614D37A-D5BA-4793-8B97-840EE63F1803@ripon.edu> <8CA7CFF40EED9E7-100-C81@webmail-stg-d10.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: The list seems to thin in talent as the years go on. Indeed the list at the beginning looks decidedly risky - Lowell, Bishop? William Carlos Williams? The CIA - through the Congress of Cultural Freedom - funded a lot of Abstract Expressionist painters just after the war, and exported them throughout Europe. Maybe the establishment had better taste then. I wonder if the culture wars have anything to do with the Poet Laureates visibility? I'm thinking of the parallels with the NEA squabbles? Roger On Mon, May 5, 2008 at 8:42 PM, wrote: > There's another CO on the list...Wm. Stafford. 70-71. > > William Jay Smith is 100 (if he's still with us). > And Reed Whittemore is close behind at 99, and it seems he had two terms. > Kunitz had already broken thru the century mark when he got his second > stint. > > Wouldn't you say that the post became more visible when it got renamed Poet > Laureate? > It might have been about as well known as the Bollingen before then. > Finnegan > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: David Graham > Sent: Mon, 5 May 2008 3:15 pm > Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: laureate > > > Yeah, Lowell was political, even back then. But the position was far less > visible then, also. > > > Here's a list of holders of the position: > > > > U.S. Poet Laureate Timeline > > 1937-1941 ? Joseph Auslander > 1943-1944 ? Allen Tate > 1944-1945 ?Robert Penn Warren > 1945-1946 ? Louise Bogan > 1946-1947 ? Karl Shapiro > 1947-1948 ? Robert Lowell > 1948-1949 ? Leonie Adams > 1949-1950 ? Elizabeth Bishop > 1950 - 1952 ? Conrad Aiken > 1952 ? William Carlos Williams > 1956-1958 ? Randall Jarrell > 1958-1959 ? Robert Frost > 1959-1961 ? Richard Eberhart > 1961-1963 ? Louis Untermeyer > 1963-1964 ? Howard Nemerov > 1964-1965 ? Reed Whittemore > 1965-1966 ? Stephen Spender > 1966-1968 ? James Dickey > 1968-1970 ? William Jay Smith > 1970-1971 ? William Stafford > 1971-1973 ? Josephine Jacobsen > 1973-1974 ? Daniel Hoffman > 1974-1976 ? Stanley Kunitz > 1976-1978 ? Robert Hayden > 1978-1980 ? William Meredith > 1981-1982 ? Maxine Kumin > 1982-1984 ? Anthony Hecht > 1984-1985 ? Robert Fitzgerald > 1984-1985 ? Reed Whittemore > 1985-1986 ? Gwendolyn Brooks > 1986-1987 ? Robert Penn Warren > 1987-1988 ? Richard Wilbur > 1988-1990 ? Howard Nemerov > 1990-1991 ? Mark Strand > 1991-1992 ? Joseph Brodsky > 1992-1993 ? Mona Van Duyn > 1993-1995 ? Rita Dove > 1995-1997 ? Robert Hass > 1997-2000 ? Robert Pinsky > 1999-2000 ? Special Bicentennial Consultants, 1999-2000: Rita Dove, Louise > Gl?ck, and W.S. Merwin > 2000-2001 ? Stanley Kunitz > 2001-2003 ? Billy Collins > 2003-2004 ? Louise Gl?ck > 2004-2006 ? Ted Kooser > 2006 ? Donald Hall > 2007---Charles Simic > > > > ======================================== > David Graham > grahamd@ripon.edu > > > Home Page: > http://web.mac.com/drjazz > > > Poetry Library: > http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html > ========================================== > > > > > > On May 5, 2008, at 1:56 PM, jforjames@aol.com wrote: > > > > even Lowell during Vietnam--he served one stint, in 1947-8). > > -- > I didn't realize this. Wasn't Lowell a CO during WWII? That would've make > him a controversial pick on the heels of the war years. > Finnegan > > > > ________________________________ > Plan your next roadtrip with MapQuest.com: America's #1 Mapping Site. > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > = > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > ________________________________ > Plan your next roadtrip with MapQuest.com: America's #1 Mapping Site. > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- My Stuff: http://www.badstep.net/ "She went out with her paint box, paints the chapel blue She went out with her matches, torched the car-wash too" The Go-Betweens From robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com Mon May 5 16:46:28 2008 From: robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com (Robin Hamilton) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:31 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Academic Respectability References: <954A5413620E074797298540927621C50D8915B9@sjcexchange.SJC.EDU> <8CA7C082A6C6A3E-1028-215D@FWM-M08.sysops.aol.com><481F2A5A.3080301@opus40.org> <795F4887-17E2-4CEC-9F67-0153AFFF6DC4@ripon.edu><00f801c8aee9$957bca30$4201a8c0@HP10652193472> <8CA7D01FAE731B5-4FC-676@webmail-stg-d02.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <013301c8aef1$188ffca0$4201a8c0@HP10652193472> It's actually (or was) quite difficult to run an Academic Teaching (day) Job and write at the same time. What Bob Grumman does as a serious Shakespeare scholar and a VizPoet. It can be done -- Geoffrey Hill, Francis Berry, William Empson -- but it's damn difficult. As Barry Blue sang in an unnoticed lyric, you pay at the gate. Robin -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080505/14ed8a2a/attachment.html From rog3r.day at gmail.com Mon May 5 16:48:40 2008 From: rog3r.day at gmail.com (Roger Day) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:31 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: laureate In-Reply-To: <00f801c8aee9$957bca30$4201a8c0@HP10652193472> References: <954A5413620E074797298540927621C50D8915B9@sjcexchange.SJC.EDU> <8CA7C082A6C6A3E-1028-215D@FWM-M08.sysops.aol.com> <481F2A5A.3080301@opus40.org> <795F4887-17E2-4CEC-9F67-0153AFFF6DC4@ripon.edu> <00f801c8aee9$957bca30$4201a8c0@HP10652193472> Message-ID: I thought the modern English poet laureate is a modern parallel of a court jester, silk ties not withstanding. Roger On Mon, May 5, 2008 at 8:52 PM, Robin Hamilton wrote: > > > I've been brooding over this, and a couple of things I came up with are ... > > Is a Poet Laureate Hot Dog or Top Dog? > > ... and ... > > The closest analogy to the position(s) of poet laureate are religious -- > Roman Catholic, Anglican Compromise, or Presbyterian. > > It's all to do with wreaths, i'ntit? The palm, the oak, the bays ... You > tramp on a town (delendo est Carthago) and you get an oak wreath, you win > the marathon at the Olympics (without the use of steroids) and you're > awarded the palm. Hot dog poets get the laurel wreath ... > > [After the 14thC in Europe ... late entrants.] > > Interesting that the earliest European laureates were -- Petrarch and > Skelton -- both self-crowned. > > ... so the poetic crown pickabacks on genocide. (Oak wreaths before > laurel leaves.) > > So far so good -- Petrarch and Skelton might both have been egotistical > buggers but they did get it right -- no one would quarrel with their > self-choice. > > But it's when you institutionalise the business that problems start. > > Ben Jonson was probably partly self-appointed and partly lion-on-the-egg > stamped by Jimmy the Sixth and One. > > But once he's there, you *have to have a poet laureate. > > Like the Pope or the Archbishop of Canterbury ... > > Since Jonson, the *English laureateship has been the obvious mingled with > the hysterically funny. > > But you have to have one, until the previous one dies. > > From that perspective, the appointment of Andrew Motion actually makes a > weird kind of sense -- you don't have to choose between Heaney, Wallcott, > Harrison, and Fanthorpe-- put in a place marker, and hope when he dies, > there'll be an Obvious Candidate. > > Mark on the ballot paper, "None of the above." > > So the English Laureateship is tending to the Anglican Compromise -- they > don't have to die, but may resign. > > The Church of Scotland, truly democratic, primus inter pares, elects a new > Moderator every (or is it three?) years. > > Which is fine, unless you're a member of the Wee Free or the Plymouth > Betheren. > > All shall take part, and many shall have prizes. > > The American System seeems to be closest to the Presbyterian Communion. > > Which is fine and Deeply Democratic, but please don't usurp the term > "laureate". > > R. > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- My Stuff: http://www.badstep.net/ "She went out with her paint box, paints the chapel blue She went out with her matches, torched the car-wash too" The Go-Betweens From jforjames at aol.com Mon May 5 16:54:41 2008 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames@aol.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:32 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: laureate In-Reply-To: References: <954A5413620E074797298540927621C50D8915B9@sjcexchange.SJC.EDU> <8CA7C082A6C6A3E-1028-215D@FWM-M08.sysops.aol.com> <481F2A5A.3080301@opus40.org> <795F4887-17E2-4CEC-9F67-0153AFFF6DC4@ripon.edu> <8CA7CF8DE01B6D9-100-990@webmail-stg-d10.sysops.aol.com> <481F6C74.1050603@ntlworld.com> Message-ID: <8CA7D095F9B1205-4FC-A31@webmail-stg-d02.sysops.aol.com> Lowell?was bi-polar...and had the manic?& depressive swings associated with that disease. The manic swings can go into the psychotic range. May account for some of this. There are many who account for high incidence of alcoholism?among bi-polars as?a form of ''self-medication'. This would have?to be the nadir of American interventionism if the CIA sent Robert Lowell on a mission. If only more of country's dark ops were so benign and ineffectual. Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: Roger Day Sent: Mon, 5 May 2008 4:37 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Re: laureate There's a wonderful story in Stonor Saunders book "Who pays the piper" about Lowell (drunk of course) in an open-top car with driver careering through the Buenos Aires night. Lowell is standing up giving Nazi salutes and shouting nazi slogans. Lowell, like all the rest of the puppets, was paid through the Congress for Cultural Freedom, the CIA front organisation. I believe they paid off a UK mag as well. Roger On Mon, May 5, 2008 at 9:22 PM, David Bircumshaw wrote: > > Sometime in the 1960s the CIA also sent on him on a reading tour to Latin > America to counter the influence of Neruda. I know that seems weird, but, > there again, so's our Poet Laureate's official salary. > > I am told, though, that Andrew Motion wears the most marvellous silk ties. > This, admiringly, by a pair of Midlands literary editors. > > > > > It seems that James is right, from Wikipedia the incredible ancestors of his > mother, and his brief bio: > > > > Robert Lowell was born in Boston, Massachusetts to a Boston Brahmin family > that included the poets Amy Lowell and James Russell Lowell. His mother, > Charlotte Winslow, was a direct descendant of William Samuel Johnson, a > signer of the United States Constitution, Jonathan Edwards, the famed > philosopher, Anne Hutchinson, the Puritan preacher and healer, Robert > Livingston the Elder, Thomas Dudley, the second governor of Massachusetts, > and Mayflower passengers James Chilton and his daughter Mary Chilton. He was > at St. Mark's School, a prominent prep-school in Southborough, Mass, before > attending Harvard College for two years and transferring to Kenyon College > in Gambier, Ohio, to study under John Crowe Ransom.[1] He converted from > Episcopalianism to Catholicism,[2] which influenced his first two books, > Land of Unlikeness (1944) and the Pulitzer Prize winning Lord Weary's Castle > (1946). In 1950, Lowell was included in the influential anthology > Mid-Century American Poets as one of the key literary figures of his > generation. Among his contemporaries who also appeared in that book were > Muriel Rukeyser, Karl Shapiro, Elizabeth Bishop, Theodore Roethke, Randall > Jarrell, and John Ciardi, all poets who came into prominence in the 1940s. > > Lowell was a conscientious objector during World War II and served several > months at the federal prison in Danbury, Connecticut. During the 1960s he > was active in the civil rights movement and opposed the US involvement in > Vietnam. His participation in the October 1967 peace march in Washington, > DC, and his subsequent arrest are described in the early sections of Norman > Mailer's The Armies of the Night. > > Lowell suffered with alcoholism and manic depression and was hospitalized > many times throughout his life. He was married to novelist Jean Stafford > from 1940 to 1948. In 1949 he married the writer Elizabeth Hardwick. In 1970 > he left Elizabeth Hardwick for the British author Lady Caroline Blackwood. > He spent many of his last years in England. Lowell died in 1977, having > suffered a heart attack in a cab in New York City on his way to see > Elizabeth Hardwick. He is buried in Stark Cemetery, Dunbarton, New > Hampshire. > > Lowell's collected poems were published in 2003 and his letters in 2005, > leading to a renewed interest in his work. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: jforjames@aol.com > To: new-poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > Sent: Monday, May 05, 2008 8:56 PM > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Re: laureate > > > > even Lowell during Vietnam--he served one stint, in 1947-8). > > -- > I didn't realize this. Wasn't Lowell a CO during WWII? That would've make > him a controversial pick on the heels of the war years. > Finnegan > > > > -- > > David Bircumshaw > Website and A Chide's Alphabet > http://homepage.ntlworld.com/david.bircumshaw/ > The Animal Subsides http://www.arrowheadpress.co.uk/books/animal.html > Leicester Poetry Society: http://www.poetryleicester.co.uk > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- My Stuff: http://www.badstep.net/ "She went out with her paint box, paints the chapel blue She went out with her matches, torched the car-wash too" The Go-Betweens _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080505/b50aa1e1/attachment.html From jforjames at aol.com Mon May 5 16:59:50 2008 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames@aol.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:32 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: laureate In-Reply-To: <8CA7D07EA6B959D-4FC-96C@webmail-stg-d02.sysops.aol.com> References: <954A5413620E074797298540927621C50D8915B9@sjcexchange.SJC.EDU> <8CA7C082A6C6A3E-1028-215D@FWM-M08.sysops.aol.com><481F2A5A.3080301@opus40.org> <795F4887-17E2-4CEC-9F67-0153AFFF6DC4@ripon.edu> <00f801c8aee9$957bca30$4201a8c0@HP10652193472> <8CA7D01FAE731B5-4FC-676@webmail-stg-d02.sysops.aol.com> <011401c8aeef$603baec0$4201a8c0@HP10652193472> <8CA7D07EA6B959D-4FC-96C@webmail-stg-d02.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <8CA7D0A18015845-4FC-A8B@webmail-stg-d02.sysops.aol.com> Robin, Scanning the list David Graham posted I note we have Jos Brodsky?(defective Ruskie)?and Charles Simic (Serb, aka Du?an "The Prose Poet" Simi?) both non-natives on our list. Can the UK beat that? Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: Robin Hamilton To: jforjames@aol.com Sent: Mon, 5 May 2008 4:34 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Re: laureate <>? ? Well, that question, when it comes to the last choice of the English pote lariat, is actually more complicated than it seems, as one of The Questions in the last round was whether colonials were allowed?? ? Answer was no -- Santa Lucia may have the highest proportian of Nobels per head of the population, and Northern Ireland had a fairly high scoring rate when it came to poetic talent, but forget it.? ? As to ESL -- let's get rap and Street speech out of the way first ...? ? If there were an *English non-orthodox laureate, I suppose Lynton Kwasi Johnson or Tom Leonard for Scotand, but neither are ESL.? ? About the only authentic laureate I can think of is Edwin Morgan (currently Scotland, tomorrow the World) and jeezus, he caused problems.? ? When he was about to retire a few years ago, Glasgow University suddenly realised that his day job had him rated as a Senior Lecturer rather than a Professor, and it suddenly struck them that it might look a bit strange if Scotland's undoubtedly best living poet never got a Chair, so they hastily created a Personal Chair for him.? ? Fair does, except that one of Eddie's few gestures towards Academic Respectability was an article called "Dryden's Drudgings", which I got smacked over the head for citing in 1966.? ? Way it goes ...? ? Robin ? Plan your next roadtrip with MapQuest.com: America's #1 Mapping Site. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080505/c215bd5e/attachment.html From david.bircumshaw at ntlworld.com Tue May 6 04:38:59 2008 From: david.bircumshaw at ntlworld.com (David Bircumshaw) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:32 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: laureate In-Reply-To: References: <954A5413620E074797298540927621C50D8915B9@sjcexchange.SJC.EDU> <8CA7C082A6C6A3E-1028-215D@FWM-M08.sysops.aol.com> <481F2A5A.3080301@opus40.org> <795F4887-17E2-4CEC-9F67-0153AFFF6DC4@ripon.edu> <8CA7CF8DE01B6D9-100-990@webmail-stg-d10.sysops.aol.com> <481F6C74.1050603@ntlworld.com> Message-ID: <48201923.1090603@ntlworld.com> > > There's a wonderful story in Stonor Saunders book "Who pays the piper" > about Lowell (drunk of course) in an open-top car with driver > careering through the Buenos Aires night. Lowell is standing up giving > Nazi salutes and shouting nazi slogans. > > Lowell, like all the rest of the puppets, was paid through the > Congress for Cultural Freedom, the CIA front organisation. I believe > they paid off a UK mag as well. > The magazine was Encounter, Roger. They also used to sponsor the Australian magazine Quadrant to some extent. It's really hard to know what to make of all these things (Stephen Spender was involved in Encounter, Les Murray with Quadrant) except that clearly some of the Spooks have a taste for poetry. With our current, very active, Laureate it is a matter of public record that Blair (favourite poem 'The Soldier') took 'a personal interest' in his appointment. Best Dave -- David Bircumshaw Website and A Chide's Alphabet http://homepage.ntlworld.com/david.bircumshaw/ The Animal Subsides http://www.arrowheadpress.co.uk/books/animal.html Leicester Poetry Society: http://www.poetryleicester.co.uk From rog3r.day at gmail.com Tue May 6 13:28:27 2008 From: rog3r.day at gmail.com (Roger Day) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:32 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: laureate In-Reply-To: <48201923.1090603@ntlworld.com> References: <954A5413620E074797298540927621C50D8915B9@sjcexchange.SJC.EDU> <8CA7C082A6C6A3E-1028-215D@FWM-M08.sysops.aol.com> <481F2A5A.3080301@opus40.org> <795F4887-17E2-4CEC-9F67-0153AFFF6DC4@ripon.edu> <8CA7CF8DE01B6D9-100-990@webmail-stg-d10.sysops.aol.com> <481F6C74.1050603@ntlworld.com> <48201923.1090603@ntlworld.com> Message-ID: and Stephen Spender was the dupe in charge of Encounter at the time. Yeah. I heard that about Blair. Morrison is another safe pair of hands. Unlikely to be tricky in any way. Safe. Very safe. Roger On Tue, May 6, 2008 at 9:38 AM, David Bircumshaw wrote: > > > > > There's a wonderful story in Stonor Saunders book "Who pays the piper" > > about Lowell (drunk of course) in an open-top car with driver > > careering through the Buenos Aires night. Lowell is standing up giving > > Nazi salutes and shouting nazi slogans. > > > > Lowell, like all the rest of the puppets, was paid through the > > Congress for Cultural Freedom, the CIA front organisation. I believe > > they paid off a UK mag as well. > > > > > The magazine was Encounter, Roger. They also used to sponsor the Australian > magazine Quadrant to some extent. It's really hard to know what to make of > all these things (Stephen Spender was involved in Encounter, Les Murray with > Quadrant) except that clearly some of the Spooks have a taste for poetry. > With our current, very active, Laureate it is a matter of public record > that Blair (favourite poem 'The Soldier') took 'a personal interest' in his > appointment. > > Best > > Dave > > -- > > > David Bircumshaw > Website and A Chide's Alphabet > http://homepage.ntlworld.com/david.bircumshaw/ > The Animal Subsides http://www.arrowheadpress.co.uk/books/animal.html > Leicester Poetry Society: http://www.poetryleicester.co.uk > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- My Stuff: http://www.badstep.net/ "She went out with her paint box, paints the chapel blue She went out with her matches, torched the car-wash too" The Go-Betweens From Opus40-01 at opus40.org Wed May 7 00:05:02 2008 From: Opus40-01 at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:32 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Museum of Computer Art Message-ID: <48212A6E.70308@opus40.org> http://moca.virtual.museum/richards/richards01.htm -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ The moral is this: in American verse, The better you are, the pay is worse. --Corey Ford From amyhappens at yahoo.com Wed May 7 10:09:14 2008 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:32 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Schuldt, King, Wheeler, and Montesonti Message-ID: <28250.33469.qm@web83310.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Friday May 16th, 7pm Pete's Candy Store 709 Lorimer St. (between Frost and Richardson) Williamsburg, Brooklyn Directions: Take the G to Metropolitan or the L to Lorimer. ~~~ Hosted by Sommer Browning Morgan Lucas Schuldt is the author of Verge (Parlor Press: Free Verse Editions, 2007) and Otherhow (Kitchen Press, 2007), a chapbook. He lives in Tucson where he edits the literary journal CUE. Amy King is the author of I?m the Man Who Loves You and Antidotes for an Alibi (Blazevox Books). She edits the Poetics List and moderates the Women?s Poetry Listserv. She is currently editing an anthology, The Urban Poetic, forthcoming from Factory School. Please visit http://amyking.org for more. Betsy Wheeler currently lives in Lewisburg, PA, where she holds the Stadler Fellowship at Bucknell University. Her poetry can be found in Ping Pong, The Hat, No Tell Motel, Painted Bride Quarterly, Can We Have Our Ball Back, and elsewhere. She is co-editor of Pilot and Pilot Books. Frank Montesonti's poetry has been published in Black Warrior Review, Poet Lore, AQR, Barrow Street, Spork, and Cream City Review, among other magazines ~~~ http://www.petescandystore.com/bigpoetry/index.html#may16 Amy _______ http://www.amyking.org ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080507/5bb50608/attachment.html From shin02143 at aol.com Wed May 7 13:21:05 2008 From: shin02143 at aol.com (shin02143@aol.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:32 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Paul Celan In-Reply-To: <48212A6E.70308@opus40.org> References: <48212A6E.70308@opus40.org> Message-ID: <8CA7E7DDD7C8BA0-1210-F1C@MBLK-M27.sysops.aol.com> Any Paul Celan fans out there? I just got a book of his German poems translated by Michael Hamburger. The introduction was both fascinating and saddening. He was persecuted by the Nazis but survived the Shoah, yet his parents died in the extermination camps. This left an indelible mark of tragedy on him and he committed suicide at age 49 in 1970. His poems feature fragmentation and neologisms but are very evocative. I've just started studying them. He was an extremely gifted poet, multilingual and well published in his own time. Richard ________________________________________________________________________ AOL's new homepage has launched. Take a tour at http://info.aol.co.uk/homepage/ now. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080507/f94ef9d7/attachment.html From browning at splitthisrock.org Wed May 7 13:27:08 2008 From: browning at splitthisrock.org (browning) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:32 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Paul Celan In-Reply-To: <8CA7E7DDD7C8BA0-1210-F1C@MBLK-M27.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <005a01c8b067$93e8b280$a701a8c0@SBLAPTOP> You can watch a video of Galway Kinnell giving a powerful reading of Celan's incredible poem "Fugue of Death" at Split This Rock Poetry Festival in March here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vDpaNLaBt0I. Read the poem here: http://www.artofeurope.com/celan/cel8.htm ** Sarah Browning Director Split This Rock Poetry Festival c/o Institute for Policy Studies 1112 16th Street, NW, Suite 600 Washington, DC 20036 browning@splitthisrock.org www.splitthisrock.org 202-787-5210 _____ From: new-poetry-bounces@wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto:new-poetry-bounces@wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of shin02143@aol.com Sent: Wednesday, May 07, 2008 1:21 PM To: new-poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu Subject: [New-Poetry] Paul Celan Any Paul Celan fans out there? I just got a book of his German poems translated by Michael Hamburger. The introduction was both fascinating and saddening. He was persecuted by the Nazis but survived the Shoah, yet his parents died in the extermination camps. This left an indelible mark of tragedy on him and he committed suicide at age 49 in 1970. His poems feature fragmentation and neologisms but are very evocative. I've just started studying them. He was an extremely gifted poet, multilingual and well published in his own time. Richard _____ AOL's new homepage has launched. Take a tour now. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080507/c3f63df2/attachment.html From david.bircumshaw at ntlworld.com Wed May 7 13:51:53 2008 From: david.bircumshaw at ntlworld.com (David Bircumshaw) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:32 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Paul Celan In-Reply-To: <8CA7E7DDD7C8BA0-1210-F1C@MBLK-M27.sysops.aol.com> References: <48212A6E.70308@opus40.org> <8CA7E7DDD7C8BA0-1210-F1C@MBLK-M27.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <4821EC39.4020103@ntlworld.com> > Any Paul Celan fans out there? I just got a book of his German poems > translated by Michael Hamburger. The introduction was both fascinating > and saddening. He was persecuted by the Nazis but survived the Shoah, > yet his parents died in the extermination camps. This left an > indelible mark of tragedy on him and he committed suicide at age 49 in > 1970. His poems feature fragmentation and neologisms but are very > evocative. I've just started studying them. He was an extremely gifted > poet, multilingual and well published in his own time. > Richard Yes, Michael Hamburger's and also Pierre Joris's translations of Celan are excellent poetry in their own right. I hope it's a bi-lingual edition you have, if not, do get one, they're worth it, both Hamburger and Joris are available in that form. A German-Jewish friend of mine says the translations are not the 'same' as the originals, that it would be impossible for them to be so, but fine in their own right. Celan was an outstanding poet, the fragmentation and neologisms, in his case, are justified, as they come an extreme edge of subject and experience. The poems are charged, like the equally intense short poems of Hopkins or Vallejo. There are a few audio recordings of Celan on the Web, I can't recall the addresses off-hand, but a google will find them. I'd recommend too his (very short) 'Collected Prose', translated by Rosemarie Waldrop. Best Dave -- David Bircumshaw Website and A Chide's Alphabet http://homepage.ntlworld.com/david.bircumshaw/ The Animal Subsides http://www.arrowheadpress.co.uk/books/animal.html Leicester Poetry Society: http://www.poetryleicester.co.uk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080507/a60d2c4c/attachment.html From alexdickow9 at yahoo.com Wed May 7 14:08:25 2008 From: alexdickow9 at yahoo.com (Alexander Dickow) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:32 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: New-Poetry Digest, Vol 47, Issue 9 In-Reply-To: <200805071600.m47G05Lr020547@wiz.cath.vt.edu> Message-ID: <132459.58765.qm@web35501.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Richard, Celan is the most important European poet of the last forty years or so. However, I recommend Pierre Joris' translations (available from Green Integer, and I think he has a selected out somewhere else). Amicalement, Alex www.alexdickow.net/blog/ les mots! ah quel d?sert ? la fin merveilleux. -- Henri Droguet From grahamd at ripon.edu Wed May 7 14:19:00 2008 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:32 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Paul Celan In-Reply-To: <8CA7E7DDD7C8BA0-1210-F1C@MBLK-M27.sysops.aol.com> References: <48212A6E.70308@opus40.org> <8CA7E7DDD7C8BA0-1210-F1C@MBLK-M27.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <11A795D1-DA46-455A-A3B5-852816DF3FF9@ripon.edu> Here's one from my deep vaults: Paul Celan "I hear that the axe has flowered," you said. It must have been a furious bloom, for the chips that flew to heal you, and then lie soft and harmless on your collar. It must have been a flowering when the train rolled from its tunnel, led by a shaft of the purest light, as if goodness could roll from the grave. Your parents, riding that train, couid not have foreseen an axe gone crazy, glinting black, an axe that would salt and eat its own handle. Was it impossible for you in Paris, lecturing to children of the dead? Did I hear you sift down like chalk dusting a classroom? Under a desktop in the last row your initials deepen. But I will have to stop saying "Imagine Celan, who killed himself." Everyone kills himself. --fr. *Magic Shows*. Cleveland University Poetry Center, 1986. ======================================== David Graham grahamd@ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.mac.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== On May 7, 2008, at 12:21 PM, shin02143@aol.com wrote: > > Any Paul Celan fans out there? I just got a book of his German > poems translated by Michael Hamburger. The introduction was both > fascinating and saddening. He was persecuted by the Nazis but > survived the Shoah, yet his parents died in the extermination > camps. This left an indelible mark of tragedy on him and he > committed suicide at age 49 in 1970. His poems feature > fragmentation and neologisms but are very evocative. I've just > started studying them. He was an extremely gifted poet, > multilingual and well published in his own time. > Richard > AOL's new homepage has launched. Take a tour now. > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080507/04375efc/attachment.html From shin02143 at aol.com Wed May 7 15:24:51 2008 From: shin02143 at aol.com (shin02143@aol.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:32 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: New-Poetry Digest, Vol 47, Issue 9 In-Reply-To: <132459.58765.qm@web35501.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <8CA7E8F26A69CD2-1210-182F@MBLK-M27.sysops.aol.com> Alex, Thanks for the recommendation. I got two of Joris' Celan books from the library where I work. They look great. Richard -----Original Message----- From: Alexander Dickow To: new-poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Wed, 7 May 2008 14:08 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: New-Poetry Digest, Vol 47, Issue 9 Richard, Celan is the most important European poet of the last forty years or so. However, I recommend Pierre Joris' translations (available from Green Integer, and I think he has a selected out somewhere else). Amicalement, Alex www.alexdickow.net/blog/ les mots! ah quel d?sert ? la fin merveilleux. -- Henri Droguet _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry ________________________________________________________________________ AOL's new homepage has launched. Take a tour at http://info.aol.co.uk/homepage/ now. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080507/c11aa68d/attachment.html From blacksox at att.net Wed May 7 15:27:22 2008 From: blacksox at att.net (blacksox@att.net) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:32 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Paul Celan Message-ID: <050720081927.6000.48220299000E9BC20000177022218801869B0A02D29B9B0EBF98019C050C0E040D@att.net> A brilliant poet that uses language and sound the most intrigal parts of his repertoire. "glottal stop" was a wonderful translation. Popov and McHugh should be commended for their work. Little pieces I enjojoyed: White, white, white like paint on pickets the laws line up and march right in a source of light you drowsily swallow passes through the hungry host-tissue There are just to many to mention. Very sad the way the early trauma in his life eventually caused his suicide. -------------- next part -------------- Skipped content of type multipart/related From anny.ballardini at tin.it Wed May 7 15:36:55 2008 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:33 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Paul Celan In-Reply-To: <11A795D1-DA46-455A-A3B5-852816DF3FF9@ripon.edu> References: <48212A6E.70308@opus40.org><8CA7E7DDD7C8BA0-1210-F1C@MBLK-M27.sysops.aol.com> <11A795D1-DA46-455A-A3B5-852816DF3FF9@ripon.edu> Message-ID: <603FA97809D04D77913CEDC38D14785B@AnnyPC> Excellent, this translation and also Galway Kinnell's reading (he sounds like Pound) ----- Original Message ----- From: David Graham To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views Sent: Wednesday, May 07, 2008 8:19 PM Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Paul Celan Here's one from my deep vaults: Paul Celan "I hear that the axe has flowered," you said. It must have been a furious bloom, for the chips that flew to heal you, and then lie soft and harmless on your collar. It must have been a flowering when the train rolled from its tunnel, led by a shaft of the purest light, as if goodness could roll from the grave. Your parents, riding that train, couid not have foreseen an axe gone crazy, glinting black, an axe that would salt and eat its own handle. Was it impossible for you in Paris, lecturing to children of the dead? Did I hear you sift down like chalk dusting a classroom? Under a desktop in the last row your initials deepen. But I will have to stop saying "Imagine Celan, who killed himself." Everyone kills himself. --fr. *Magic Shows*. Cleveland University Poetry Center, 1986. ======================================== David Graham grahamd@ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.mac.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== On May 7, 2008, at 12:21 PM, shin02143@aol.com wrote: Any Paul Celan fans out there? I just got a book of his German poems translated by Michael Hamburger. The introduction was both fascinating and saddening. He was persecuted by the Nazis but survived the Shoah, yet his parents died in the extermination camps. This left an indelible mark of tragedy on him and he committed suicide at age 49 in 1970. His poems feature fragmentation and neologisms but are very evocative. I've just started studying them. He was an extremely gifted poet, multilingual and well published in his own time. Richard ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- AOL's new homepage has launched. Take a tour now. _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080507/a0b19440/attachment.html From Edward.Byrne at valpo.edu Thu May 8 02:23:50 2008 From: Edward.Byrne at valpo.edu (Edward Byrne) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:33 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Gary Snyder: A Natural Selection Message-ID: <48225625.7112.006E.0@valpo.edu> On his birthday, a celebration of Gary Snyder and his winning of the Ruth Lilly Poetry Prize for lifetime achievement: http://edwardbyrne.blogspot.com/2008/05/gary-snyder-natural-selection.html -------------------------------------------------- Edward Byrne Department of English 322 Huegli Hall Valparaiso University Valparaiso, IN 46383-6493 E-mail: edward.byrne@valpo.edu Home Page: http://www.valpo.edu/home/faculty/ebyrne/homepage/ Blog: http://edwardbyrne.blogspot.com/ Editor, Valparaiso Poetry Review E-mail: vpr@valpo.edu VPR Web Page: http://www.valpo.edu/english/vpr/ Office Phone: (219) 464-5278 Fax: (219) 464-5511 -------------------------------------------------- From jforjames at aol.com Thu May 8 12:27:27 2008 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames@aol.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:33 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Perloff on Joris' Celan Message-ID: <8CA7F3F89DDD0DC-11E0-1D38@FWM-M33.sysops.aol.com> http://bostonreview.net/BR30.6/perloff.html -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080508/5af83eac/attachment.html From jforjames at aol.com Thu May 8 12:45:25 2008 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames@aol.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:33 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Paul Celan In-Reply-To: <050720081927.6000.48220299000E9BC20000177022218801869B0A02D29B9B0EBF98019C050C0E040D@att.net> References: <050720081927.6000.48220299000E9BC20000177022218801869B0A02D29B9B0EBF98019C050C0E040D@att.net> Message-ID: <8CA7F420BDBAA90-11E0-1F52@FWM-M33.sysops.aol.com> My first experience with Celan came in these translations: Joachim Neugroschel?s _Speech-Grille and Selected Poems_. With Popov/McHugh; Hamburger, Joris, that's four different?versions. Anyone one up to posting some of the famous poems in each translation for a compare and contrast? We could start with most famous: "Death Fugue". I'll post the Neugroschel translation tonight. Who'll take Hamburger, Popov/McHugh or Joris??Anyone?want to suggest a second poem? Another note: There is a book of the?correspondence between Celan and poet Nelly Sachs. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nelly_Sachs Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: blacksox@att.net To: new-poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Wed, 7 May 2008 3:27 pm Subject: [New-Poetry] Paul Celan A brilliant poet that uses language and sound the most intrigal parts of his repertoire. "glottal stop" was a wonderful translation. Popov and McHugh should be commended for their work. ? Little pieces I enjojoyed: ? White, white, white like paint on pickets the laws line up and march right in ? ? ?a source of light you drowsily swallow passes through the hungry host-tissue ? There are just to many to?mention. Very sad the way the early trauma in his life?? eventually caused his suicide. ? ? ? _______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080508/c18084f3/attachment.html From jforjames at aol.com Thu May 8 12:53:05 2008 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames@aol.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:33 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Paul Celan In-Reply-To: <8CA7F420BDBAA90-11E0-1F52@FWM-M33.sysops.aol.com> References: <050720081927.6000.48220299000E9BC20000177022218801869B0A02D29B9B0EBF98019C050C0E040D@att.net> <8CA7F420BDBAA90-11E0-1F52@FWM-M33.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <8CA7F431E935845-11E0-2009@FWM-M33.sysops.aol.com> http://poetryfoundation.org/harriet/2008/01/translate_this_part_deux.html#comments Reginald Sheppard reporst a fifth translation: Katherine Washburn & Margaret Gullemin, LATE POEMS. Anyone got access to that collection? Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: jforjames@aol.com To: new-poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Thu, 8 May 2008 12:45 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Paul Celan My first experience with Celan came in these translations: Joachim Neugroschel?s _Speech-Grille and Selected Poems_. With Popov/McHugh; Hamburger, Joris, that's four different?versions. Anyone one up to posting some of the famous poems in each translation for a compare and contrast? We could start with most famous: "Death Fugue". I'll post the Neugroschel translation tonight. Who'll take Hamburger, Popov/McHugh or Joris??Anyone?want to suggest a second poem? Another note: There is a book of the?correspondence between Celan and poet Nelly Sachs. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nelly_Sachs Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: blacksox@att.net To: new-poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Wed, 7 May 2008 3:27 pm Subject: [New-Poetry] Paul Celan A brilliant poet that uses language and sound the most intrigal parts of his repertoire. "glottal stop" was a wonderful translation. Popov and McHugh should be commended for their work. ? Little pieces I enjojoyed: ? White, white, white like paint on pickets the laws line up and march right in ? ? ?a source of light you drowsily swallow passes through the hungry host-tissue ? There are just to many to?mention. Very sad the way the early trauma in his life?? eventually caused his suicide. ? ? ? _______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry Plan your next roadtrip with MapQuest.com: America's #1 Mapping Site. _______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080508/a113f133/attachment.html From amyhappens at yahoo.com Thu May 8 13:34:14 2008 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:33 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] =?utf-8?q?POL=3A__Prevent_the_=E2=80=9CArtistic?= =?utf-8?q?=E2=80=9D_Death_of_Another_Innocent_Animal?= Message-ID: <156978.81497.qm@web83311.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> THE STORY: In 2007, the ?artist? Guillermo Vargas Habacuc, took a dog from the street, tied him to a rope in an art gallery and began starving him to death. For several days, the ?artist? and the visitors of the exhibition watched, emotionless, the shameful ?masterpiece? based on the dog?s agony, until eventually he died. Does THIS sound like art to you? But this is not all? the prestigious Visual Arts Biennial of Central America decided that the ?installation? WAS actually art, so Guillermo Vargas Habacuc has been invited to repeat his cruel action for the Biennial of 2008. Let?s STOP HIM!!!!! Sign the petition: http://www.petitiononline.com/ea6gk/petition.html Here is another petition that is 2 million signatures strong. Please feel free to sign it as well: http://www.petitiononline.com/13031953/petition.html Please do it. It?s free of charge, there is no need to register, and it will only take 1 minute to save the life of an innocent creature. AND, for those of you saying ?This is all a hoax, etc,? here is a direct quote FROM THE ?ARTIST? himself!: ?I knew the dog died on the following day from lack of food. During the inauguration, I knew that the dog was persecuted in the evening between the houses of aluminum and cardboard in a district of Managua. 5 children who helped to capture the dog received 10 bonds of c?rdobas for their assistance. The name of the dog was Natividad, and I let him die of hunger in the sight of everyone, as if the death of a poor dog was a shameless media show in which nobody does anything but to applaud or to watch disturbed. In the place that the dog was exposed remain a metal cable and a cord. The dog was extremely ill and did not want to eat, so in natural surroundings it would have died anyway; thus they are all poor stray dogs: sooner or later they die or are killed.? ~~~~ To be fair (with lots of comments from Costa Ricans): In his defence, the artist has claimed that what he was attempting to prove was that those who saw the suffering of the dog just walked on by and that if it had been left on the street to die, no-one would have even known of its existence. It has also been reported that the dog did not die but escaped, and that it had been fed by Vargas and was only tied up during the gallery opening times. It has not been possible to confirm this. The Managua exhibition attracted worldwide attention and many people believe it to have been an act of cruelty rather than art. A petition has been started in an attempt to prevent Habacuc?s involvement in the 2008 Biennial and from repeating the spectacle. If you would like to sign the petition, visit: http://www.petitiononline.com/ea6gk/petition.html ?from Artist Guillermo Vargas - Habacuc _______ http://www.amyking.org ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080508/012198a0/attachment.html From shin02143 at aol.com Thu May 8 13:47:40 2008 From: shin02143 at aol.com (shin02143@aol.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:33 2009 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:__[New-Poetry]_POL:__Prevent_the_=E2=80=9CArtistic=E2=80=9D_?==?utf-8?Q?Death_of_Another_Innocent_Animal?= In-Reply-To: <156978.81497.qm@web83311.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: <156978.81497.qm@web83311.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <8CA7F4ABED46C4D-1640-2555@webmail-mf04.sysops.aol.com> That is utterly cruel sadistic behavior. It is not art, it is murder. Richard -----Original Message----- From: amy king Sent: Thu, 8 May 2008 1:34 pm Subject: [New-Poetry] POL: Prevent the ?Artistic? Death of Another Innocent Animal THE STORY: In 2007, the ?artist? Guillermo Vargas Habacuc, took a dog from the street, tied him to a rope in an art gallery and began starving him to death. For several days, the ?artist? and the visitors of the exhibition watched, emotionless, the shameful ?masterpiece? based on the dog?s agony, until eventually he died. Does THIS sound like art to you? But this is not all? the prestigious Visual Arts Biennial of Central America decided that the ?installation? WAS actually art, so Guillermo Vargas Habacuc has been invited to repeat his cruel action for the Biennial of 2008. Let?s STOP HIM!!!!!??? Sign the petition: http://www.petitiononline.com/ea6gk/petition.html Here is another petition that is 2 million signatures strong. Please feel free to sign it as well: http://www.petitiononline.com/13031953/petition.html Please do it. It?s free of charge, there is no need to register, and it will only take 1 minute to save the life of an innocent creature. AND, for those of you saying ?This is all a hoax, etc,? here is a direct quote FROM THE ?ARTIST? himself!: ?I knew the dog died on the following day from lack of food. During the inauguration, I knew that the dog was persecuted in the evening between the houses of aluminum and cardboard in a district of Managua. 5 children who helped to capture the dog received 10 bonds of c?rdobas for their assistance. The name of the dog was Natividad, and I let him die of hunger in the sight of everyone, as if the death of a poor dog was a shameless media show in which nobody does anything but to applaud or to watch disturbed. In the place that the dog was exposed remain a metal cable and a cord. The dog was extremely ill and did not want to eat, so in natural surroundings it would have died anyway; thus they are all poor stray dogs: sooner or later they die or are killed.? ~~~~ To be fair (with lots of comments from Costa Ricans): In his defence, the artist has claimed that what he was attempting to prove was that those who saw the suffering of the dog just walked on by and that if it had been left on the street to die, no-one would have even known of its existence. It has also been reported that the dog did not die but escaped, and that it had been fed by Vargas and was only tied up during the gallery opening times. It has not been possible to confirm this. The Managua exhibition attracted worldwide attention and many people believe it to have been an act of cruelty rather than art. A petition has been started in an attempt to prevent Habacuc?s involvement in the 2008 Biennial and from repeating the spectacle. If you would like to sign the petition, visit: http://www.petitiononline.com/ea6gk/petition.html ?from Artist Guillermo Vargas - Habacuc ? _______ http://www.amyking.org Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080508/bc59c2d1/attachment.html From Opus40-01 at opus40.org Thu May 8 14:06:20 2008 From: Opus40-01 at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:33 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] POL: Prevent the =?UTF-8?B?4oCcQXJ0aXN0aWPigJ0g?= =?UTF-8?B?RGVhdGggb2YgQW5vdGhlciBJbm5vY2VudCBBbmltYWw=?= In-Reply-To: <8CA7F4ABED46C4D-1640-2555@webmail-mf04.sysops.aol.com> References: <156978.81497.qm@web83311.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <8CA7F4ABED46C4D-1640-2555@webmail-mf04.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <4823411C.6070701@opus40.org> I signed...trusting Amy that it's on the up and up. I googled the guy, and at least the story is true. And horrifying. shin02143@aol.com wrote: > That is utterly cruel sadistic behavior. It is not art, it is murder. > > Richard > > > -----Original Message----- > From: amy king > Sent: Thu, 8 May 2008 1:34 pm > Subject: [New-Poetry] POL: Prevent the ?Artistic? Death of Another > Innocent Animal > > *THE STORY:* > * > * > In 2007, the ?artist? Guillermo Vargas Habacuc, took a dog from the > street, tied him to a rope in an art gallery and began starving him to > death. > For several days, the ?artist? and the visitors of the exhibition > watched, emotionless, the shameful ?masterpiece? based on the dog?s > agony, until eventually he died. > > Does THIS sound like art to you? > > But this is not all? the prestigious Visual Arts Biennial of Central > America decided that the ?installation? WAS actually art, so Guillermo > Vargas Habacuc has been invited to repeat his cruel action for the > Biennial of 2008. > > *Let?s STOP HIM!!!!! *Sign the petition: > http://www.petitiononline.com/ea6gk/petition.html > > > > Here is another petition that is 2 million signatures strong. Please > feel free to sign it as well: > http://www.petitiononline.com/13031953/petition.html > > > > Please do it. It?s free of charge, there is no need to register, and > it will only take 1 minute to save the life of an innocent creature. > > AND, for those of you saying ?This is all a hoax, etc,? here is a > direct quote FROM THE ?ARTIST? himself!: > ?I knew the dog died on the following day from lack of food. During > the inauguration, I knew that the dog was persecuted in the evening > between the houses of aluminum and cardboard in a district of Managua. > 5 children who helped to capture the dog received 10 bonds of c?rdobas > for their assistance. The name of the dog was Natividad, and I let him > die of hunger in the sight of everyone, as if the death of a poor dog > was a shameless media show in which nobody does anything but to > applaud or to watch disturbed. In the place that the dog was exposed > remain a metal cable and a cord. The dog was extremely ill and did not > want to eat, so in natural surroundings it would have died anyway; > thus they are all poor stray dogs: sooner or later they die or are > killed.? > > ~~~~ > > To be fair (with lots of comments from Costa Ricans): > > In his defence, the artist has claimed that what he was attempting to > prove was that those who saw the suffering of the dog just walked on > by and that if it had been left on the street to die, no-one would > have even known of its existence. > > It has also been reported that the dog did not die but escaped, and > that it had been fed by Vargas and was only tied up during the gallery > opening times. It has not been possible to confirm this. > > The Managua exhibition attracted worldwide attention and many people > believe it to have been an act of cruelty rather than art. A petition > has been started in an attempt to prevent Habacuc?s involvement in the > 2008 Biennial and from repeating the spectacle. > > If you would like to sign the petition, visit: > http://www.petitiononline.com/ea6gk/petition.html > ?from * Artist Guillermo Vargas - Habacuc > * > > _______ > > > > http://www.amyking.org > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try > it now. > > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Plan your next roadtrip with MapQuest.com > : America's #1 > Mapping Site. > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ The moral is this: in American verse, The better you are, the pay is worse. --Corey Ford From browning at splitthisrock.org Thu May 8 14:08:48 2008 From: browning at splitthisrock.org (browning) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:33 2009 Subject: =?iso-8859-1?Q?RE:_=5BNew-Poetry=5D_POL:__Prevent_the_=22Artistic=22_Deat?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?h_of_Another_Innocent_Animal?= In-Reply-To: <8CA7F4ABED46C4D-1640-2555@webmail-mf04.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <007601c8b136$926bfc80$6501a8c0@SBLAPTOP> See further explication of this case here: http://www.hoax-slayer.com/starving-dog-art.shtml Sounds as if the right action has been taken to prevent further abuse. ** Sarah Browning Director Split This Rock Poetry Festival c/o Institute for Policy Studies 1112 16th Street, NW, Suite 600 Washington, DC 20036 browning@splitthisrock.org www.splitthisrock.org 202-787-5210 _____ From: new-poetry-bounces@wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto:new-poetry-bounces@wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of shin02143@aol.com Sent: Thursday, May 08, 2008 1:48 PM To: new-poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] POL: Prevent the ?Artistic? Death of Another Innocent Animal That is utterly cruel sadistic behavior. It is not art, it is murder. Richard -----Original Message----- From: amy king Sent: Thu, 8 May 2008 1:34 pm Subject: [New-Poetry] POL: Prevent the ?Artistic? Death of Another Innocent Animal THE STORY: In 2007, the ?artist? Guillermo Vargas Habacuc, took a dog from the street, tied him to a rope in an art gallery and began starving him to death. For several days, the ?artist? and the visitors of the exhibition watched, emotionless, the shameful ?masterpiece? based on the dog?s agony, until eventually he died. Does THIS sound like art to you? But this is not all the prestigious Visual Arts Biennial of Central America decided that the ?installation? WAS actually art, so Guillermo Vargas Habacuc has been invited to repeat his cruel action for the Biennial of 2008. Let?s STOP HIM!!!!! Sign the petition: http://www.petitiononline.com/ea6gk/petition.html Here is another petition that is 2 million signatures strong. Please feel free to sign it as well: http://www.petitiononline.com/13031953/petition.html Please do it. It?s free of charge, there is no need to register, and it will only take 1 minute to save the life of an innocent creature. AND, for those of you saying ?This is all a hoax, etc,? here is a direct quote FROM THE ?ARTIST? himself!: ?I knew the dog died on the following day from lack of food. During the inauguration, I knew that the dog was persecuted in the evening between the houses of aluminum and cardboard in a district of Managua. 5 children who helped to capture the dog received 10 bonds of c?rdobas for their assistance. The name of the dog was Natividad, and I let him die of hunger in the sight of everyone, as if the death of a poor dog was a shameless media show in which nobody does anything but to applaud or to watch disturbed. In the place that the dog was exposed remain a metal cable and a cord. The dog was extremely ill and did not want to eat, so in natural surroundings it would have died anyway; thus they are all poor stray dogs: sooner or later they die or are killed.? ~~~~ To be fair (with lots of comments from Costa Ricans): In his defence, the artist has claimed that what he was attempting to prove was that those who saw the suffering of the dog just walked on by and that if it had been left on the street to die, no-one would have even known of its existence. It has also been reported that the dog did not die but escaped, and that it had been fed by Vargas and was only tied up during the gallery opening times. It has not been possible to confirm this. The Managua exhibition attracted worldwide attention and many people believe it to have been an act of cruelty rather than art. A petition has been started in an attempt to prevent Habacuc?s involvement in the 2008 Biennial and from repeating the spectacle. If you would like to sign the petition, visit: http://www.petitiononline.com/ea6gk/petition.html ?from Artist Guillermo Vargas - Habacuc _______ http://www.amyking.org _____ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _____ Plan your next roadtrip with MapQuest.com : America's #1 Mapping Site. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080508/1eb4f73e/attachment.html From jforjames at aol.com Thu May 8 14:30:08 2008 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames@aol.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:34 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Paul Celan In-Reply-To: <8CA7F431E935845-11E0-2009@FWM-M33.sysops.aol.com> References: <050720081927.6000.48220299000E9BC20000177022218801869B0A02D29B9B0EBF98019C050C0E040D@att.net> <8CA7F420BDBAA90-11E0-1F52@FWM-M33.sysops.aol.com> <8CA7F431E935845-11E0-2009@FWM-M33.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <8CA7F50AD8E1346-F8C-26A5@mblk-d51.sysops.aol.com> John Felstiner?s Selected Poems and Prose of Paul Celan (Norton, 2000), mentioned in Perloff's review, makes 6 translations of Celan's work. -----Original Message----- From: jforjames@aol.com To: new-poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Thu, 8 May 2008 12:53 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Paul Celan http://poetryfoundation.org/harriet/2008/01/translate_this_part_deux.html#comments Reginald Sheppard reporst a fifth translation: Katherine Washburn & Margaret Gullemin, LATE POEMS. Anyone got access to that collection? Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: jforjames@aol.com To: new-poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Thu, 8 May 2008 12:45 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Paul Celan My first experience with Celan came in these translations: Joachim Neugroschel?s _Speech-Grille and Selected Poems_. With Popov/McHugh; Hamburger, Joris, that's four different?versions. Anyone one up to posting some of the famous poems in each translation for a compare and contrast? We could start with most famous: "Death Fugue". I'll post the Neugroschel translation tonight. Who'll take Hamburger, Popov/McHugh or Joris??Anyone?want to suggest a second poem? Another note: There is a book of the?correspondence between Celan and poet Nelly Sachs. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nelly_Sachs Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: blacksox@att.net To: new-poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Wed, 7 May 2008 3:27 pm Subject: [New-Poetry] Paul Celan A brilliant poet that uses language and sound the most intrigal parts of his repertoire. "glottal stop" was a wonderful translation. Popov and McHugh should be commended for their work. ? Little pieces I enjojoyed: ? White, white, white like paint on pickets the laws line up and march right in ? ? ?a source of light you drowsily swallow passes through the hungry host-tissue ? There are just to many to?mention. Very sad the way the early trauma in his life?? eventually caused his suicide. ? ? ? _______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry Plan your next roadtrip with MapQuest.com: America's #1 Mapping Site. _______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry Plan your next roadtrip with MapQuest.com: America's #1 Mapping Site. _______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080508/9da132aa/attachment.html From jforjames at aol.com Thu May 8 14:58:09 2008 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames@aol.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:34 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] POL: Prevent the "Artistic" Death of Another Innocent Animal In-Reply-To: <007601c8b136$926bfc80$6501a8c0@SBLAPTOP> Message-ID: <8CA7F5497AE8FD4-F8C-28B6@mblk-d51.sysops.aol.com> It's appalling to see?a typical gallery crowd milling around,?holding drinks and presumably having a little nosh with this distressed?animal in their presence. I had heard about this case but this was first time I'd seen pictures of it. There has been much 'self-multilation' among certain 'art geeks' (in the carney sense of the word geek). I guess that got old. Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: browning Sent: Thu, 8 May 2008 2:08 pm Subject: RE: [New-Poetry] POL: Prevent the "Artistic" Death of Another Innocent Animal See further explication of this case here: http://www.hoax-slayer.com/starving-dog-art.shtml ? Sounds as if the right action has been taken to prevent further abuse. ? ? ** Sarah Browning Director Split This Rock Poetry Festival c/o Institute for Policy Studies 1112 16th Street, NW, Suite 600 Washington, DC 20036 browning@splitthisrock.org www.splitthisrock.org 202-787-5210 ? From: new-poetry-bounces@wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto:new-poetry-bounces@wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of shin02143@aol.com Sent: Thursday, May 08, 2008 1:48 PM To: new-poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] POL: Prevent the ?Artistic? Death of Another Innocent Animal ? That is utterly cruel sadistic behavior. It is not art, it is murder. Richard ? ? -----Original Message----- From: amy king Sent: Thu, 8 May 2008 1:34 pm Subject: [New-Poetry] POL: Prevent the ?Artistic? Death of Another Innocent Animal THE STORY: ? In 2007, the ?artist? Guillermo Vargas Habacuc, took a dog from the street, tied him to a rope in an art gallery and began starving him to death. For several days, the ?artist? and the visitors of the exhibition watched, emotionless, the shameful ?masterpiece? based on the dog?s agony, until eventually he died. ? Does THIS sound like art to you? ? But this is not all? the prestigious Visual Arts Biennial of Central America decided that the ?installation? WAS actually art, so Guillermo Vargas Habacuc has been invited to repeat his cruel action for the Biennial of 2008. ? Let?s STOP HIM!!!!!??? Sign the petition: http://www.petitiononline.com/ea6gk/petition.html Here is another petition that is 2 million signatures strong. Please feel free to sign it as well: http://www.petitiononline.com/13031953/petition.html Please do it. It?s free of charge, there is no need to register, and it will only take 1 minute to save the life of an innocent creature. ? AND, for those of you saying ?This is all a hoax, etc,? here is a direct quote FROM THE ?ARTIST? himself!: ?I knew the dog died on the following day from lack of food. During the inauguration, I knew that the dog was persecuted in the evening between the houses of aluminum and cardboard in a district of Managua. 5 children who helped to capture the dog received 10 bonds of c?rdobas for their assistance. The name of the dog was Natividad, and I let him die of hunger in the sight of everyone, as if the death of a poor dog was a shameless media show in which nobody does anything but to applaud or to watch disturbed. In the place that the dog was exposed remain a metal cable and a cord. The dog was extremely ill and did not want to eat, so in natural surroundings it would have died anyway; thus they are all poor stray dogs: sooner or later they die or are killed.? ? ~~~~ ? To be fair (with lots of comments from Costa Ricans): ? In his defence, the artist has claimed that what he was attempting to prove was that those who saw the suffering of the dog just walked on by and that if it had been left on the street to die, no-one would have even known of its existence. ? It has also been reported that the dog did not die but escaped, and that it had been fed by Vargas and was only tied up during the gallery opening times. It has not been possible to confirm this. ? The Managua exhibition attracted worldwide attention and many people believe it to have been an act of cruelty rather than art. A petition has been started in an attempt to prevent Habacuc?s involvement in the 2008 Biennial and from repeating the spectacle. ? If you would like to sign the petition, visit: http://www.petitiononline.com/ea6gk/petition.html ?from Artist Guillermo Vargas - Habacuc ? _______ http://www.amyking.org ? ? Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry Plan your next roadtrip with MapQuest.com: America's #1 Mapping Site. _______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080508/bbf1d50d/attachment.html From amyhappens at yahoo.com Thu May 8 15:45:18 2008 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:34 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] POL: Prevent the âArtisticâ Death of Another Innocent Animal In-Reply-To: <4823411C.6070701@opus40.org> Message-ID: <54840.27818.qm@web83312.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Thanks, Tad! I tried to check out the validity and found that it is in some dispute as the artist has made several contrary statements since his initial claim of letting the dog starve to death "for art" -- I figured regardless of the final truth, it's a terrible spectacle and abusive. We wouldn't let a malnourished child sit in a gallery for hours on end; why should an domesticated animal be treated that way? Also disturbing is the lack of "patron" reaction. I don't know why someone didn't untie the dog and attempt to walk him out of the gallery with him. Maybe this is the kind of discussion his "art" is supposed to inspire along with drawing attention to the homeless dog situation, but ultimately and regardless of his aim, the installation is abhorrent and there are far more effective ways to address the homeless dog problem -- if he really cared to do so. Best, Amy TheOldMole wrote: I signed...trusting Amy that it's on the up and up. I googled the guy, and at least the story is true. And horrifying. shin02143@aol.com wrote: > That is utterly cruel sadistic behavior. It is not art, it is murder. > > Richard > > > -----Original Message----- > From: amy king > Sent: Thu, 8 May 2008 1:34 pm > Subject: [New-Poetry] POL: Prevent the ???Artistic??? Death of Another > Innocent Animal > > *THE STORY:* > * > * > In 2007, the ???artist??? Guillermo Vargas Habacuc, took a dog from the > street, tied him to a rope in an art gallery and began starving him to > death. > For several days, the ???artist??? and the visitors of the exhibition > watched, emotionless, the shameful ???masterpiece??? based on the dog???s > agony, until eventually he died. > > Does THIS sound like art to you? > > But this is not all??? the prestigious Visual Arts Biennial of Central > America decided that the ???installation??? WAS actually art, so Guillermo > Vargas Habacuc has been invited to repeat his cruel action for the > Biennial of 2008. > > *Let???s STOP HIM!!!!! *Sign the petition: > http://www.petitiononline.com/ea6gk/petition.html > > > > Here is another petition that is 2 million signatures strong. Please > feel free to sign it as well: > http://www.petitiononline.com/13031953/petition.html > > > > Please do it. It???s free of charge, there is no need to register, and > it will only take 1 minute to save the life of an innocent creature. > > AND, for those of you saying ???This is all a hoax, etc,??? here is a > direct quote FROM THE ???ARTIST??? himself!: > ???I knew the dog died on the following day from lack of food. During > the inauguration, I knew that the dog was persecuted in the evening > between the houses of aluminum and cardboard in a district of Managua. > 5 children who helped to capture the dog received 10 bonds of c??rdobas > for their assistance. The name of the dog was Natividad, and I let him > die of hunger in the sight of everyone, as if the death of a poor dog > was a shameless media show in which nobody does anything but to > applaud or to watch disturbed. In the place that the dog was exposed > remain a metal cable and a cord. The dog was extremely ill and did not > want to eat, so in natural surroundings it would have died anyway; > thus they are all poor stray dogs: sooner or later they die or are > killed.??? > > ~~~~ > > To be fair (with lots of comments from Costa Ricans): > > In his defence, the artist has claimed that what he was attempting to > prove was that those who saw the suffering of the dog just walked on > by and that if it had been left on the street to die, no-one would > have even known of its existence. > > It has also been reported that the dog did not die but escaped, and > that it had been fed by Vargas and was only tied up during the gallery > opening times. It has not been possible to confirm this. > > The Managua exhibition attracted worldwide attention and many people > believe it to have been an act of cruelty rather than art. A petition > has been started in an attempt to prevent Habacuc???s involvement in the > 2008 Biennial and from repeating the spectacle. > > If you would like to sign the petition, visit: > http://www.petitiononline.com/ea6gk/petition.html > ???from * Artist Guillermo Vargas - Habacuc > * > > _______ > > > > http://www.amyking.org > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try > it now. > > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Plan your next roadtrip with MapQuest.com > : America's #1 > Mapping Site. > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ The moral is this: in American verse, The better you are, the pay is worse. --Corey Ford _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______ http://www.amyking.org http://demonoide.org http://redherring.us http://poetryexperiment.com --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080508/f1ad5e1a/attachment.html From anny.ballardini at tin.it Thu May 8 15:57:24 2008 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:34 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Ted Kooser Message-ID: <50EA3DBC64CA49EFAEE5C85306DBFA02@AnnyPC> I think we used to call them cat's eyes, am I right? And yes, I loved them! BY TED KOOSER, U.S. POET LAUREATE, 2004-2006 Max Mendelsohn, age 12, of Weston, Massachusetts. Ode to Marbles I love the sound of marbles scattered on the worn wooden floor, like children running away in a game of hide-and-seek. I love the sight of white marbles, blue marbles, green marbles, black, new marbles, old marbles, iridescent marbles, with glass-ribboned swirls, dancing round and round. I love the feel of marbles, cool, smooth, rolling freely in my palm, like smooth-sided stars that light up the worn world. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080508/113f3d51/attachment.html From anny.ballardini at tin.it Thu May 8 15:59:49 2008 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:34 2009 Subject: =?UTF-8?Q?Re:_=5BNew-Poetry=5D_POL:__Prevent_t?= =?UTF-8?Q?he_=C3=A2Artistic=C3=A2_Death_of_Another_I?= =?UTF-8?Q?nnocent_Animal?= In-Reply-To: <54840.27818.qm@web83312.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: <54840.27818.qm@web83312.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <838A81F010B24B86BF56988952DA01F9@AnnyPC> If it's an hoax, which I hope, it is very easy to cut out and paste any image above another one (even I can do it). My students spoke of it some months ago. ----- Original Message ----- From: amy king To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &,Views Sent: Thursday, May 08, 2008 9:45 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] POL: Prevent the ?Artistic? Death of Another Innocent Animal Thanks, Tad! I tried to check out the validity and found that it is in some dispute as the artist has made several contrary statements since his initial claim of letting the dog starve to death "for art" -- I figured regardless of the final truth, it's a terrible spectacle and abusive. We wouldn't let a malnourished child sit in a gallery for hours on end; why should an domesticated animal be treated that way? Also disturbing is the lack of "patron" reaction. I don't know why someone didn't untie the dog and attempt to walk him out of the gallery with him. Maybe this is the kind of discussion his "art" is supposed to inspire along with drawing attention to the homeless dog situation, but ultimately and regardless of his aim, the installation is abhorrent and there are far more effective ways to address the homeless dog problem -- if he really cared to do so. Best, Amy TheOldMole wrote: I signed...trusting Amy that it's on the up and up. I googled the guy, and at least the story is true. And horrifying. shin02143@aol.com wrote: > That is utterly cruel sadistic behavior. It is not art, it is murder. > > Richard > > > -----Original Message----- > From: amy king > Sent: Thu, 8 May 2008 1:34 pm > Subject: [New-Poetry] POL: Prevent the ???Artistic??? Death of Another > Innocent Animal > > *THE STORY:* > * > * > In 2007, the ???artist??? Guillermo Vargas Habacuc, took a dog from the > street, tied him to a rope in an art gallery and began starving him to > death. > For several days, the ???artist??? and the visitors of the exhibition > watched, emotionless, the shameful ???masterpiece??? based on the dog???s > agony, until eventually he died. > > Does THIS sound like art to you? > > But this is not all??? the prestigious Visual Arts Biennial of Central > America decided that the ???installation??? WAS actually art, so Guillermo > Vargas Habacuc has been invited to repeat his cruel action for the > Biennial of 2008. > > *Let???s STOP HIM!!!!! *Sign the petition: > http://www.petitiononline.com/ea6gk/petition.html > > > > Here is another petition that is 2 million signatures strong. Please > feel free to sign it as well: > http://www.petitiononline.com/13031953/petition.html > > > > Please do it. It???s free of charge, there is no need to register, and > it will only take 1 minute to save the life of an innocent creature. > > AND, for those of you saying ???This is all a hoax, etc,??? here is a > direct quote FROM THE ???ARTIST??? himself!: > ???I knew the dog died on the following day from lack of food. During > the inauguration, I knew that the dog was persecuted in the evening > between the houses of aluminum and cardboard in a district of Managua. > 5 children who helped to capture the dog received 10 bonds of c??rdobas > for their assistance. The name of the dog was Natividad, and I let him > die of hunger in the sight of everyone, as if the death of a poor dog > was a shameless media show in which nobody does anything but to > applaud or to watch disturbed. In the place that the dog was exposed > remain a metal cable and a cord. The dog was extremely ill and did not > want to eat, so in natural surroundings it would have died anyway; > thus they are all poor stray dogs: sooner or later they die or are > killed.??? > > ~~~~ > > To be fair (with lots of comments from Costa Ricans): > > In his defence, the artist has claimed that what he was attempting to > prove was that those who saw the suffering of the dog just walked on > by and that if it had been left on the street to die, no-one would > have even known of its existence. > > It has also been reported that the dog did not die but escaped, and > that it had been fed by Vargas and was only tied up during the gallery > opening times. It has not been possible to confirm this. > > The Managua exhibition attracted worldwide attention and many people > believe it to have been an act of cruelty rather than art. A petition > has been started in an attempt to prevent Habacuc???s involvement in the > 2008 Biennial and from repeating the spectacle. > > If you would like to sign the petition, visit: > http://www.petitiononline.com/ea6gk/petition.html > ???from * Artist Guillermo Vargas - Habacuc > * > > _______ > > > > http://www.amyking.org > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try > it now. > > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Plan your next roadtrip with MapQuest.com > : America's #1 > Mapping Site. > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ The moral is this: in American verse, The better you are, the pay is worse. --Corey Ford _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______ http://www.amyking.org http://demonoide.org http://redherring.us http://poetryexperiment.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.10/1421 - Release Date: 5/7/2008 5:23 PM -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080508/55198619/attachment.html From shin02143 at aol.com Thu May 8 16:01:52 2008 From: shin02143 at aol.com (shin02143@aol.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:34 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Ted Kooser In-Reply-To: <50EA3DBC64CA49EFAEE5C85306DBFA02@AnnyPC> References: <50EA3DBC64CA49EFAEE5C85306DBFA02@AnnyPC> Message-ID: <8CA7F5D7E2DCECB-1640-31A1@webmail-mf04.sysops.aol.com> It's been several decades, but I think cat's-eye marbles were mostly clear with a dash of color in the middle. At least that's what we called cat's-eyes. I loved my marbles. I only had a couple dozen but they were prized possessions and I kept them in a little leather sack with a tie-cord. Ah, youth! Richard -----Original Message----- From: Anny Ballardini To: New Poetry Sent: Thu, 8 May 2008 3:57 pm Subject: [New-Poetry] Ted Kooser I think we used to call them cat's eyes, am I right? And yes, I loved them! ? BY TED KOOSER, U.S. POET LAUREATE, 2004-2006 Max Mendelsohn, age 12, of Weston, Massachusetts. Ode to Marbles I love the sound of marbles scattered on the worn wooden floor, like children running away in a game of hide-and-seek. I love the sight of white marbles, blue marbles, green marbles, black, new marbles, old marbles, iridescent marbles, with glass-ribboned swirls, dancing round and round. I love the feel of marbles, cool, smooth, rolling freely in my palm, like smooth-sided stars that light up the worn world. ? Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080508/2dc48c0b/attachment.html From duemer at gmail.com Thu May 8 16:25:16 2008 From: duemer at gmail.com (Joseph Duemer) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:34 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] POL: Prevent the "Artistic" Death of Another Innocent Animal In-Reply-To: <8CA7F5497AE8FD4-F8C-28B6@mblk-d51.sysops.aol.com> References: <007601c8b136$926bfc80$6501a8c0@SBLAPTOP> <8CA7F5497AE8FD4-F8C-28B6@mblk-d51.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: My two cents on the subject: http://www.sharpsand.net/2008/04/27/guillermo-vargas-habacuc/ Also: http://www.sharpsand.net/2008/04/28/animals/ jd -- Joseph Duemer Professor of Humanities Clarkson University Weblog: sharpsand.net -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080508/3287ca00/attachment.html From alexdickow9 at yahoo.com Thu May 8 16:40:26 2008 From: alexdickow9 at yahoo.com (Alexander Dickow) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:34 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] celan In-Reply-To: <200805081600.m48G05Lr005708@wiz.cath.vt.edu> Message-ID: <415993.605.qm@web35507.mail.mud.yahoo.com> You're very welcome, Richard! I'll take you up on that offer, Jim: here's a Joris version from Breathturn, real masterpieces: By the undreamt etched, the sleeplessly wandered-through breadland casts up the life mountain. >From its crumb you knead anew our names, which I, an eye similar to yours on each finger, probe for a place, through which I can wake myself toward you, the bright hungercandle in mouth. *** Into the furrows of heavencoin in the doorcrack you press the word from which I rolled, when I with trembling fists the roof over us dismantled, slate for slate, syllable for syllable, for the copper- glimmer of the begging- cup's sake up there. Amicalement, Alex www.alexdickow.net/blog/ les mots! ah quel d?sert ? la fin merveilleux. -- Henri Droguet From cervantes.james at gmail.com Thu May 8 16:47:59 2008 From: cervantes.james at gmail.com (James Cervantes) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:34 2009 Subject: =?GB2312?B?UmU6IFtOZXctUG9ldHJ5XSBQT0w6IFByZXZlbnQgdGhlIKGwQXJ0?= =?GB2312?B?aXN0aWOhsSBEZWF0aCBvZiBBbm90aGVyIElubm9jZW50IEFuaW1hbA==?= In-Reply-To: <156978.81497.qm@web83311.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: <156978.81497.qm@web83311.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <648208b60805081347x7aa1626ap59a880f14b92c581@mail.gmail.com> What does "Pa¡Ì¡Ùs" mean? The second petition calls for it and deems it "necessary information." - Jim On Thu, May 8, 2008 at 12:34 PM, amy king wrote: > *THE STORY:* > > * > * > > In 2007, the 'artist' Guillermo Vargas Habacuc, took a dog from the street, > tied him to a rope in an art gallery and began starving him to death. > > For several days, the 'artist' and the visitors of the exhibition watched, > emotionless, the shameful 'masterpiece' based on the dog's agony, until > eventually he died. > > > Does THIS sound like art to you? > > > But this is not all¡­ the prestigious Visual Arts Biennial of Central > America decided that the 'installation' WAS actually art, so Guillermo > Vargas Habacuc has been invited to repeat his cruel action for the Biennial > of 2008. > > > *Let's STOP HIM!!!!! *Sign the petition: > http://www.petitiononline.com/ea6gk/petition.html > > > > > Here is another petition that is 2 million signatures strong. Please feel > free to sign it as well: > http://www.petitiononline.com/13031953/petition.html > > > > > Please do it. It's free of charge, there is no need to register, and it > will only take 1 minute to save the life of an innocent creature. > > > AND, for those of you saying "This is all a hoax, etc," here is a direct > quote FROM THE 'ARTIST' himself!: > "I knew the dog died on the following day from lack of food. During the > inauguration, I knew that the dog was persecuted in the evening between the > houses of aluminum and cardboard in a district of Managua. 5 children who > helped to capture the dog received 10 bonds of c¨®rdobas for their > assistance. The name of the dog was Natividad, and I let him die of hunger > in the sight of everyone, as if the death of a poor dog was a shameless > media show in which nobody does anything but to applaud or to watch > disturbed. In the place that the dog was exposed remain a metal cable and a > cord. The dog was extremely ill and did not want to eat, so in natural > surroundings it would have died anyway; thus they are all poor stray dogs: > sooner or later they die or are killed." > > > ~~~~ > > > To be fair (with lots of comments from Costa Ricans): > > > In his defence, the artist has claimed that what he was attempting to prove > was that those who saw the suffering of the dog just walked on by and that > if it had been left on the street to die, no-one would have even known of > its existence. > > > It has also been reported that the dog did not die but escaped, and that it > had been fed by Vargas and was only tied up during the gallery opening > times. It has not been possible to confirm this. > > > The Managua exhibition attracted worldwide attention and many people > believe it to have been an act of cruelty rather than art. A petition has > been started in an attempt to prevent Habacuc's involvement in the 2008 > Biennial and from repeating the spectacle. > > > If you would like to sign the petition, visit: > http://www.petitiononline.com/ea6gk/petition.html > > ¨Cfrom * Artist Guillermo Vargas - Habacuc > * > > _______ > > > > http://www.amyking.org > > ------------------------------ > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it > now. > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080508/ecaf9c8e/attachment.html From jforjames at aol.com Thu May 8 17:45:20 2008 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames@aol.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:35 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Remembering one Prague Spring Message-ID: <8CA7F6BF2608DA1-14A8-3993@webmail-db06.sysops.aol.com> http://www.praguepost.com/articles/2008/05/07/when-poetry-was-king.php When poetry was king May Day was never the same after Allen Ginsberg's 1965 visit to Prague By Darrell J?nsson For The Prague Post May 7th, 2008 issue Ginsberg, shown with an admirer top right and wearing the King of May crown above and below, added a new dynamic to traditional May 1 celebrations. May Day may have been relatively quiet in Prague this year, but during the Cold War it was a political flash point. In 1947, the U.S. Congress decreed May 1 Loyalty Day, hoping to stave off its growing international communist overtones. This did nothing to stop the celebration of the Marxist revolution in communist countries, where over the next couple of decades the date threatened to become as big as Christmas.This set the stage for one of the most memorable May Days ever in Prague. In 1965, when American beatnik poet Allen Ginsberg was crowned King of May and paraded through the streets, it was clear to the Czechoslovak secret police that the celebration had drifted way off-message and far out of state control. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080508/226be785/attachment.html From Rsgwynn1 at cs.com Thu May 8 18:03:39 2008 From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com (Rsgwynn1@cs.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:35 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] POL: Prevent the "Artistic" Death of Another Innocent Animal Message-ID: It may be a bit more ambiguous that if first appeared to be: http://www.snopes.com/critters/crusader/vargas.asp -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080508/5d7848de/attachment.html From s.allen.moore at mac.com Thu May 8 18:57:55 2008 From: s.allen.moore at mac.com (Steve Moore) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:35 2009 Subject: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Re:_[New-Poetry]_POL:__Prevent_the_=E2Artistic=E2?= =?ISO-8859-1?Q?_Death_of_Another_Innocent_Animal?= In-Reply-To: <838A81F010B24B86BF56988952DA01F9@AnnyPC> References: <54840.27818.qm@web83312.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <838A81F010B24B86BF56988952DA01F9@AnnyPC> Message-ID: I encountered this some weeks back. After researching into it quite extensively, this is what I discovered. The artist and the gallery owner secretly fed and cared for the dog, which was a stray they found, at night. The dog was actually well treated, other than having to sit around a gallery all day (which would bore me to death). Eventually, they released the dog, but claimed it had died. The whole point of the exhibit was to show how passive and emotionless art world consumers are. how art doesn't impact them on a visceral level, it's just an elitist exercise. I think he proved his point, but then got more than he bargained for when the story showed up on the internets. -Steven Allen Moore On May 8, 2008, at 11:59 AM, Anny Ballardini wrote: > If it's an hoax, which I hope, it is very easy to cut out and paste > any image above another one (even I can do it). My students spoke of > it some months ago. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: amy king > To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &,Views > Sent: Thursday, May 08, 2008 9:45 PM > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] POL: Prevent the ?Artistic? Death of > Another Innocent Animal > > Thanks, Tad! I tried to check out the validity and found that it is > in some dispute as the artist has made several contrary statements > since his initial claim of letting the dog starve to death "for > art" -- I figured regardless of the final truth, it's a terrible > spectacle and abusive. We wouldn't let a malnourished child sit in > a gallery for hours on end; why should an domesticated animal be > treated that way? Also disturbing is the lack of "patron" > reaction. I don't know why someone didn't untie the dog and attempt > to walk him out of the gallery with him. Maybe this is the kind of > discussion his "art" is supposed to inspire along with drawing > attention to the homeless dog situation, but ultimately and > regardless of his aim, the installation is abhorrent and there are > far more effective ways to address the homeless dog problem -- if he > really cared to do so. > > Best, > Amy > > TheOldMole wrote: > I signed...trusting Amy that it's on the up and up. I googled the guy, > and at least the story is true. And horrifying. > > shin02143@aol.com wrote: > > That is utterly cruel sadistic behavior. It is not art, it is > murder. > > > > Richard > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: amy king > > Sent: Thu, 8 May 2008 1:34 pm > > Subject: [New-Poetry] POL: Prevent the ???Artistic??? Death > of Another > > Innocent Animal > > > > *THE STORY:* > > * > > * > > In 2007, the ???artist??? Guillermo Vargas Habacuc, took a > dog from the > > street, tied him to a rope in an art gallery and began starving > him to > > death. > > For several days, the ???artist??? and the visitors of the > exhibition > > watched, emotionless, the shameful ???masterpiece??? based > on the dog???s > > agony, until eventually he died. > > > > Does THIS sound like art to you? > > > > But this is not all??? the prestigious Visual Arts Biennial of > Central > > America decided that the ???installation??? WAS actually > art, so Guillermo > > Vargas Habacuc has been invited to repeat his cruel action for the > > Biennial of 2008. > > > > *Let???s STOP HIM!!!!! *Sign the petition: > > http://www.petitiononline.com/ea6gk/petition.html > > > > > > > > Here is another petition that is 2 million signatures strong. Please > > feel free to sign it as well: > > http://www.petitiononline.com/13031953/petition.html > > > > > > > > Please do it. It???s free of charge, there is no need to > register, and > > it will only take 1 minute to save the life of an innocent creature. > > > > AND, for those of you saying ???This is all a hoax, etc,??? > here is a > > direct quote FROM THE ???ARTIST??? himself!: > > ???I knew the dog died on the following day from lack of food. > During > > the inauguration, I knew that the dog was persecuted in the evening > > between the houses of aluminum and cardboard in a district of > Managua. > > 5 children who helped to capture the dog received 10 bonds of > c??rdobas > > for their assistance. The name of the dog was Natividad, and I let > him > > die of hunger in the sight of everyone, as if the death of a poor > dog > > was a shameless media show in which nobody does anything but to > > applaud or to watch disturbed. In the place that the dog was exposed > > remain a metal cable and a cord. The dog was extremely ill and did > not > > want to eat, so in natural surroundings it would have died anyway; > > thus they are all poor stray dogs: sooner or later they die or are > > killed.??? > > > > ~~~~ > > > > To be fair (with lots of comments from Costa Ricans): > > > > In his defence, the artist has claimed that what he was attempting > to > > prove was that those who saw the suffering of the dog just walked on > > by and that if it had been left on the street to die, no-one would > > have even known of its existence. > > > > It has also been reported that the dog did not die but escaped, and > > that it had been fed by Vargas and was only tied up during the > gallery > > opening times. It has not been possible to confirm this. > > > > The Managua exhibition attracted worldwide attention and many people > > believe it to have been an act of cruelty rather than art. A > petition > > has been started in an attempt to prevent Habacuc???s > involvement in the > > 2008 Biennial and from repeating the spectacle. > > > > If you would like to sign the petition, visit: > > http://www.petitiononline.com/ea6gk/petition.html > > ???from * Artist Guillermo Vargas - Habacuc > > * > > > > _______ > > > > > > > > http://www.amyking.org > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. > Try > > it now. > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > New-Poetry mailing list > > > > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > > > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Plan your next roadtrip with MapQuest.com > > : America's #1 > > Mapping Site. > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > -- > Tad Richards > http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ > http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ > > The moral is this: in American verse, > The better you are, the pay is worse. > --Corey Ford > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > _______ > > > http://www.amyking.org > http://demonoide.org > http://redherring.us > http://poetryexperiment.com > > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. > Try it now. > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG. > Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.10/1421 - Release Date: > 5/7/2008 5:23 PM > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080508/65c62e32/attachment.html From Opus40-01 at opus40.org Thu May 8 19:20:02 2008 From: Opus40-01 at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:35 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] POL: Prevent the "Artistic" Death of Another Innocent Animal In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <48238AA2.1090900@opus40.org> Even with a less harsh face put on it, it still comes out horrifying. Rsgwynn1@cs.com wrote: > It may be a bit more ambiguous that if first appeared to be: > > http://www.snopes.com/critters/crusader/vargas.asp > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ The moral is this: in American verse, The better you are, the pay is worse. --Corey Ford From amyhappens at yahoo.com Thu May 8 19:31:41 2008 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:35 2009 Subject: =?utf-8?B?UmU6IFtOZXctUG9ldHJ5XSBQT0w6IFByZXZlbnQgdGhlIOKAnEFydGlzdGlj?= =?utf-8?B?4oCdIERlYXRoIG9mIEFub3RoZXIgSW5ub2NlbnQgQW5pbWFs?= Message-ID: <647497.11615.qm@web83313.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Pais is country and Localidad is city. Amy _______ http://www.amyking.org ----- Original Message ---- From: James Cervantes To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &, Views" Sent: Thursday, May 8, 2008 4:47:59 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] POL: Prevent the ?Artistic? Death of Another Innocent Animal What does "Pa??s" mean? The second petition calls for it and deems it "necessary information." - Jim On Thu, May 8, 2008 at 12:34 PM, amy king wrote: THE STORY: In 2007, the 'artist' Guillermo Vargas Habacuc, took a dog from the street, tied him to a rope in an art gallery and began starving him to death. For several days, the 'artist' and the visitors of the exhibition watched, emotionless, the shameful 'masterpiece' based on the dog's agony, until eventually he died. Does THIS sound like art to you? But this is not all? the prestigious Visual Arts Biennial of Central America decided that the 'installation' WAS actually art, so Guillermo Vargas Habacuc has been invited to repeat his cruel action for the Biennial of 2008. Let's STOP HIM!!!!! Sign the petition: http://www.petitiononline.com/ea6gk/petition.html Here is another petition that is 2 million signatures strong. Please feel free to sign it as well: http://www.petitiononline.com/13031953/petition.html Please do it. It's free of charge, there is no need to register, and it will only take 1 minute to save the life of an innocent creature. AND, for those of you saying "This is all a hoax, etc," here is a direct quote FROM THE 'ARTIST' himself!: "I knew the dog died on the following day from lack of food. During the inauguration, I knew that the dog was persecuted in the evening between the houses of aluminum and cardboard in a district of Managua. 5 children who helped to capture the dog received 10 bonds of c?rdobas for their assistance. The name of the dog was Natividad, and I let him die of hunger in the sight of everyone, as if the death of a poor dog was a shameless media show in which nobody does anything but to applaud or to watch disturbed. In the place that the dog was exposed remain a metal cable and a cord. The dog was extremely ill and did not want to eat, so in natural surroundings it would have died anyway; thus they are all poor stray dogs: sooner or later they die or are killed." ~~~~ To be fair (with lots of comments from Costa Ricans): In his defence, the artist has claimed that what he was attempting to prove was that those who saw the suffering of the dog just walked on by and that if it had been left on the street to die, no-one would have even known of its existence. It has also been reported that the dog did not die but escaped, and that it had been fed by Vargas and was only tied up during the gallery opening times. It has not been possible to confirm this. The Managua exhibition attracted worldwide attention and many people believe it to have been an act of cruelty rather than art. A petition has been started in an attempt to prevent Habacuc's involvement in the 2008 Biennial and from repeating the spectacle. If you would like to sign the petition, visit: http://www.petitiononline.com/ea6gk/petition.html ?from Artist Guillermo Vargas - Habacuc _______ http://www.amyking.org ________________________________ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080508/12cbe208/attachment.html From duemer at gmail.com Thu May 8 19:39:40 2008 From: duemer at gmail.com (Joseph Duemer) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:35 2009 Subject: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Re:_[New-Poetry]_POL:_Prevent_the_=E2Art?= =?ISO-8859-1?Q?istic=E2_Death_of_Another_Innocent_Animal?= In-Reply-To: References: <54840.27818.qm@web83312.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <838A81F010B24B86BF56988952DA01F9@AnnyPC> Message-ID: Steve, your facts do not coincide with the ones I discovered in my research into this topic. The artist & gallery owner have issues a series of contradictory & self-serving statements. The original version of the story is, certainly, exaggerated, but that's not really the point, is it? Do you really want to make excuses for such a display? Sorry for posting the link a second time, but here is my take: http://www.sharpsand.net/2008/04/27/guillermo-vargas-habacuc/ Also: http://www.sharpsand.net/2008/04/28/animals/ The problem with Vargas' piece, though, is conceptual & ethical, regardless of what happened to the dog. Literalizing metaphors is, usually, a sophomoric exercise; in this case, a sophomoric stunt -- whatever its motives -- made an exhibition of suffering. Your post appears to defend that exhibitionism. I find that troubling. jd On Thu, May 8, 2008 at 6:57 PM, Steve Moore wrote: > I encountered this some weeks back. After researching into it quite > extensively, this is what I discovered. The artist and the gallery owner > secretly fed and cared for the dog, which was a stray they found, at night. > The dog was actually well treated, other than having to sit around a gallery > all day (which would bore me to death). Eventually, they released the dog, > but claimed it had died. The whole point of the exhibit was to show how > passive and emotionless art world consumers are. how art doesn't impact them > on a visceral level, it's just an elitist exercise. I think he proved his > point, but then got more than he bargained for when the story showed up on > the internets. > -Steven Allen Moore > > -- Joseph Duemer Professor of Humanities Clarkson University Weblog: sharpsand.net -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080508/a5fbef25/attachment.html From Opus40-01 at opus40.org Thu May 8 19:41:42 2008 From: Opus40-01 at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:35 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] POL: Prevent the =?UTF-8?B?w6JBcnRpc3RpY8OiIERl?= =?UTF-8?B?YXRoIG9mIEFub3RoZXIgSW5ub2NlbnQgQW5pbWFs?= In-Reply-To: References: <54840.27818.qm@web83312.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <838A81F010B24B86BF56988952DA01F9@AnnyPC> Message-ID: <48238FB6.9030300@opus40.org> It's not all right, whether he really did it and is now claiming he didn't because of the negative publicity, or whether he only claimed to have done it. The original story is -- one would hope -- too ghastly to be true, but we know nothing is too ghastly to be true. The second story -- we only pretended to starve the dog, but actually we cared for it and fed it (just enough to have it look perpetually starving?) is frankly really unlikely. And Habacuc's original weasel story -- the dog would have died anyway -- makes the "secretly cared for" story seem even more weaselly and unlikely. I really just can't buy it. This has been done before, really for real -- here's a link. http://mcbrooklyn.blogspot.com/2008/04/tom-otterness-apologizes-for-shooting.html The Yale MFA case -- the young woman who claims to have impregnated herself and induced abortion over and over -- is having a similar does she or doesn't she? followup. Yale says she really didn't, it was just a story made up to dramatize the plight of something or other. She says she really did. Maybe only her hairdresser knows for sure? Is any of this art? That's a pointless question, a dumb question, the wrong question. It's art if its perpetrator says it is. That's basically what makes something art -- you present it to the world as something that exists in the current of life, is in some way of the current of life, and yet is apart from it, commenting on it. Any meaningful definition of art is value neutral. So it's not enough to say that something is art. It can be art and still be morally repugnant, a crime against humanity.And when these atrocities are committed -- even when someone only pretends to commit them, as may or may not be the case here -- artists should be the first to stand and denounce it. Steve Moore wrote: > I encountered this some weeks back. After researching into it quite > extensively, this is what I discovered. The artist and the gallery > owner secretly fed and cared for the dog, which was a stray they > found, at night. The dog was actually well treated, other than having > to sit around a gallery all day (which would bore me to death). > Eventually, they released the dog, but claimed it had died. The whole > point of the exhibit was to show how passive and emotionless art > world consumers are. how art doesn't impact them on a visceral level, > it's just an elitist exercise. I think he proved his point, but then > got more than he bargained for when the story showed up on the internets. > > -Steven Allen Moore > > On May 8, 2008, at 11:59 AM, Anny Ballardini wrote: > >> If it's an hoax, which I hope, it is very easy to cut out and paste >> any image above another one (even I can do it). My students spoke of >> it some months ago. >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> *From:* amy king >> *To:* NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &,Views >> >> *Sent:* Thursday, May 08, 2008 9:45 PM >> *Subject:* Re: [New-Poetry] POL: Prevent the ?Artistic? Death of >> Another Innocent Animal >> >> Thanks, Tad! I tried to check out the validity and found that it >> is in some dispute as the artist has made several contrary >> statements since his initial claim of letting the dog starve to >> death "for art" -- I figured regardless of the final truth, it's >> a terrible spectacle and abusive. We wouldn't let a malnourished >> child sit in a gallery for hours on end; why should an >> domesticated animal be treated that way? Also disturbing is the >> lack of "patron" reaction. I don't know why someone didn't >> untie the dog and attempt to walk him out of the gallery with >> him. Maybe this is the kind of discussion his "art" is supposed >> to inspire along with drawing attention to the homeless dog >> situation, but ultimately and regardless of his aim, the >> installation is abhorrent and there are far more effective ways >> to address the homeless dog problem -- if he really cared to do so. >> >> Best, >> Amy >> >> */TheOldMole > >/* wrote: >> >> I signed...trusting Amy that it's on the up and up. I googled >> the guy, >> and at least the story is true. And horrifying. >> >> shin02143@aol.com wrote: >> > That is utterly cruel sadistic behavior. It is not art, it >> is murder. >> > >> > Richard >> > >> > >> > -----Original Message----- >> > From: amy king >> > Sent: Thu, 8 May 2008 1:34 pm >> > Subject: [New-Poetry] POL: Prevent the ???Artistic??? Death >> of Another >> > Innocent Animal >> > >> > *THE STORY:* >> > * >> > * >> > In 2007, the ???artist??? Guillermo Vargas Habacuc, took a >> dog from the >> > street, tied him to a rope in an art gallery and began >> starving him to >> > death. >> > For several days, the ???artist??? and the visitors of the >> exhibition >> > watched, emotionless, the shameful ???masterpiece??? based >> on the dog???s >> > agony, until eventually he died. >> > >> > Does THIS sound like art to you? >> > >> > But this is not all??? the prestigious Visual Arts Biennial >> of Central >> > America decided that the ???installation??? WAS actually >> art, so Guillermo >> > Vargas Habacuc has been invited to repeat his cruel action >> for the >> > Biennial of 2008. >> > >> > *Let???s STOP HIM!!!!! *Sign the petition: >> > http://www.petitiononline.com/ea6gk/petition.html >> > >> > >> > >> > Here is another petition that is 2 million signatures >> strong. Please >> > feel free to sign it as well: >> > http://www.petitiononline.com/13031953/petition.html >> > >> > >> > >> > Please do it. It???s free of charge, there is no need to >> register, and >> > it will only take 1 minute to save the life of an innocent >> creature. >> > >> > AND, for those of you saying ???This is all a hoax, etc,??? >> here is a >> > direct quote FROM THE ???ARTIST??? himself!: >> > ???I knew the dog died on the following day from lack of >> food. During >> > the inauguration, I knew that the dog was persecuted in the >> evening >> > between the houses of aluminum and cardboard in a district >> of Managua. >> > 5 children who helped to capture the dog received 10 bonds >> of c??rdobas >> > for their assistance. The name of the dog was Natividad, and >> I let him >> > die of hunger in the sight of everyone, as if the death of a >> poor dog >> > was a shameless media show in which nobody does anything but to >> > applaud or to watch disturbed. In the place that the dog was >> exposed >> > remain a metal cable and a cord. The dog was extremely ill >> and did not >> > want to eat, so in natural surroundings it would have died >> anyway; >> > thus they are all poor stray dogs: sooner or later they die >> or are >> > killed.??? >> > >> > ~~~~ >> > >> > To be fair (with lots of comments from Costa Ricans): >> > >> > In his defence, the artist has claimed that what he was >> attempting to >> > prove was that those who saw the suffering of the dog just >> walked on >> > by and that if it had been left on the street to die, no-one >> would >> > have even known of its existence. >> > >> > It has also been reported that the dog did not die but >> escaped, and >> > that it had been fed by Vargas and was only tied up during >> the gallery >> > opening times. It has not been possible to confirm this. >> > >> > The Managua exhibition attracted worldwide attention and >> many people >> > believe it to have been an act of cruelty rather than art. A >> petition >> > has been started in an attempt to prevent Habacuc???s >> involvement in the >> > 2008 Biennial and from repeating the spectacle. >> > >> > If you would like to sign the petition, visit: >> > http://www.petitiononline.com/ea6gk/petition.html >> > ???from * Artist Guillermo Vargas - Habacuc >> > * >> > >> > _______ >> > >> > >> > >> > http://www.amyking.org >> > >> > >> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! >> Mobile. Try >> > it now. >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > >> > New-Poetry mailing list >> > >> > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu >> > >> > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> > Plan your next roadtrip with MapQuest.com >> > : America's #1 >> > Mapping Site. >> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > New-Poetry mailing list >> > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu >> > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> > >> >> -- >> Tad Richards >> http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ >> http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ >> >> The moral is this: in American verse, >> The better you are, the pay is worse. >> --Corey Ford >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> >> >> >> _______ >> >> >> http://www.amyking.org >> http://demonoide.org >> http://redherring.us >> http://poetryexperiment.com >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! >> Mobile. Try it now. >> >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG. >> Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.10/1421 - Release Date: >> 5/7/2008 5:23 PM >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ The moral is this: in American verse, The better you are, the pay is worse. --Corey Ford From Opus40-01 at opus40.org Thu May 8 19:42:58 2008 From: Opus40-01 at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:35 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] POL: Prevent the =?ISO-8859-1?Q?=E2Artistic=E2_?= =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Death_of_Another_Innocent_Animal?= In-Reply-To: References: <54840.27818.qm@web83312.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <838A81F010B24B86BF56988952DA01F9@AnnyPC> Message-ID: <48239002.4010100@opus40.org> I read Joe's piece -- I completely agree with his take. Joseph Duemer wrote: > Steve, your facts do not coincide with the ones I discovered in my > research into this topic. The artist & gallery owner have issues a > series of contradictory & self-serving statements. The original > version of the story is, certainly, exaggerated, but that's not really > the point, is it? Do you really want to make excuses for such a display? > > Sorry for posting the link a second time, but here is my take: > http://www.sharpsand.net/2008/04/27/guillermo-vargas-habacuc/ > > Also: > http://www.sharpsand.net/2008/04/28/animals/ > > The problem with Vargas' piece, though, is conceptual & ethical, > regardless of what happened to the dog. Literalizing metaphors is, > usually, a sophomoric exercise; in this case, a sophomoric stunt -- > whatever its motives -- made an exhibition of suffering. Your post > appears to defend that exhibitionism. I find that troubling. > > jd > > > > On Thu, May 8, 2008 at 6:57 PM, Steve Moore > wrote: > > I encountered this some weeks back. After researching into it > quite extensively, this is what I discovered. The artist and the > gallery owner secretly fed and cared for the dog, which was a > stray they found, at night. The dog was actually well treated, > other than having to sit around a gallery all day (which would > bore me to death). Eventually, they released the dog, but claimed > it had died. The whole point of the exhibit was to show how > passive and emotionless art world consumers are. how art doesn't > impact them on a visceral level, it's just an elitist exercise. I > think he proved his point, but then got more than he bargained for > when the story showed up on the internets. > > -Steven Allen Moore > > > > -- > Joseph Duemer > Professor of Humanities > Clarkson University > Weblog: sharpsand.net > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ The moral is this: in American verse, The better you are, the pay is worse. --Corey Ford From amparker at davidson.edu Thu May 8 19:54:36 2008 From: amparker at davidson.edu (Parker, Alan Michael) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:35 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] it's a book Message-ID: Hey, folks. Thought I'd share the news: my new collection, ELEPHANTS & BUTTERFLIES, is just out from BOA. Here's the info. http://boaeditions.org/books/elephants.html Sorry to toot my own horn, but I had to tell someone not a relative! Cheers. AMP Alan Michael Parker www.amparker.com From Opus40-01 at opus40.org Thu May 8 20:14:40 2008 From: Opus40-01 at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:35 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] it's a book In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <48239770.2000006@opus40.org> Congratulations, and this is the place to toot. We want to know. Parker, Alan Michael wrote: > Hey, folks. > > Thought I'd share the news: my new collection, ELEPHANTS & BUTTERFLIES, is > just out from BOA. Here's the info. > > http://boaeditions.org/books/elephants.html > > Sorry to toot my own horn, but I had to tell someone not a relative! > > Cheers. > AMP > > Alan Michael Parker > www.amparker.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ The moral is this: in American verse, The better you are, the pay is worse. --Corey Ford From JforJames at aol.com Thu May 8 20:21:33 2008 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames@aol.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:35 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] it's a book Message-ID: In a message dated 5/8/2008 8:15:03 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Opus40-01@opus40.org writes: Congratulations, and this is the place to toot. We want to know. Parker, Alan Michael wrote: > Hey, folks. > > Thought I'd share the news: my new collection, ELEPHANTS & BUTTERFLIES, is > just out from BOA. Here's the info. > > http://boaeditions.org/books/elephants.html > > Sorry to toot my own horn, but I had to tell someone not a relative! Alan, I second Tad on this. Next we want to hear a report that you outsold Li-Young Lee at BOA...but who's counting? Seriously, congrats. Is Elephants & Butterflies a poem title from the collection? I'm going to try to find the last poem I wrote in which an elephant was featured, and post it. Finnegan **************Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family favorites at AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/dinner-tonight?NCID=aolfod00030000000001) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080508/5f7f9c41/attachment.html From JforJames at aol.com Thu May 8 20:50:39 2008 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames@aol.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:36 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] An Elephant Poem Message-ID: Rossetti?s Elephant The British painter and poet Dante Gabriel Rossetti (1828-82) announced that he wanted to buy an elephant. When his friends asked what that could be good for, he said, "So I can teach it to wash the windows of my house." When they still seemed puzzled, he added, "Then everyone would stare and say, 'That elephant is washing the windows of the house in which lives Dante Gabriel Rossetti, the famous artist." At first the elephant stood steadfast and confused, They handed him the sponge to grasp instead of using it to scrub his hide of the dirt and vermin. They prodded him with sharp bamboo sticks, forced him to hold the sponge aloft, to make circular motions with his trunk, first in air, and then over glass. Of course he broke some panes along the way, But he was the kind of beast that took to training, and in a week or so he was dipping and sopping, raising and washing each window in its turn. And people did come by. People loved to see him trampling the shrubbery, absolutely obviously, or would gasp and feign dismay when he relieved himself copiously on the front lawn. Sometimes he would press a large eye against the glass. Nothing to eat?Persian carpets and ornate furnishings, walls hung with paintings. When Rossetti died the contents auctioned off, and the elephant sold to a circus in Leeds. For years afterwards people called it The Elephant?s House. It was remarked that it had 22 bright windows and 18 times that number in facets of glittering panes, but only an oak tree now to cast a shadow upon it. **************Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family favorites at AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/dinner-tonight?NCID=aolfod00030000000001) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080508/aa223b87/attachment.html From s.allen.moore at mac.com Thu May 8 21:07:47 2008 From: s.allen.moore at mac.com (Steve Moore) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:36 2009 Subject: =?UTF-8?Q?Re:_[New-Poetry]_POL:_Prevent_the_=C3=A2Artistic=C3=A2?= =?UTF-8?Q?_Death_of_Another_Innocent_Animal?= In-Reply-To: References: <54840.27818.qm@web83312.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <838A81F010B24B86BF56988952DA01F9@AnnyPC> Message-ID: <1451933D-1C0C-4DA7-B347-AE48AE6E218F@mac.com> I'm sorry if you misunderstood my point. I wasn't defending it as valuable art, I just think that people are reacting exactly as the artist was wanting. I agree that it is a sophmoric and unimaginitive exercise. It's more pathetic than criminal. Steve Moore On May 8, 2008, at 3:39 PM, Joseph Duemer wrote: > Steve, your facts do not coincide with the ones I discovered in my > research into this topic. The artist & gallery owner have issues a > series of contradictory & self-serving statements. The original > version of the story is, certainly, exaggerated, but that's not > really the point, is it? Do you really want to make excuses for such > a display? > > Sorry for posting the link a second time, but here is my take: > http://www.sharpsand.net/2008/04/27/guillermo-vargas-habacuc/ > > Also: > http://www.sharpsand.net/2008/04/28/animals/ > > The problem with Vargas' piece, though, is conceptual & ethical, > regardless of what happened to the dog. Literalizing metaphors is, > usually, a sophomoric exercise; in this case, a sophomoric stunt -- > whatever its motives -- made an exhibition of suffering. Your post > appears to defend that exhibitionism. I find that troubling. > > jd > > > > On Thu, May 8, 2008 at 6:57 PM, Steve Moore > wrote: > I encountered this some weeks back. After researching into it quite > extensively, this is what I discovered. The artist and the gallery > owner secretly fed and cared for the dog, which was a stray they > found, at night. The dog was actually well treated, other than > having to sit around a gallery all day (which would bore me to > death). Eventually, they released the dog, but claimed it had died. > The whole point of the exhibit was to show how passive and > emotionless art world consumers are. how art doesn't impact them on > a visceral level, it's just an elitist exercise. I think he proved > his point, but then got more than he bargained for when the story > showed up on the internets. > > -Steven Allen Moore > > > -- > Joseph Duemer > Professor of Humanities > Clarkson University > Weblog: sharpsand.net > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080508/f5452656/attachment.html From Opus40-01 at opus40.org Thu May 8 21:12:43 2008 From: Opus40-01 at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:36 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] POL: Prevent the =?UTF-8?B?w6JBcnRpc3RpY8OiIERl?= =?UTF-8?B?YXRoIG9mIEFub3RoZXIgSW5ub2NlbnQgQW5pbWFs?= In-Reply-To: <1451933D-1C0C-4DA7-B347-AE48AE6E218F@mac.com> References: <54840.27818.qm@web83312.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <838A81F010B24B86BF56988952DA01F9@AnnyPC> <1451933D-1C0C-4DA7-B347-AE48AE6E218F@mac.com> Message-ID: <4823A50B.3090306@opus40.org> Not if you're the dog. Steve Moore wrote: > I'm sorry if you misunderstood my point. I wasn't defending it as > valuable art, I just think that people are reacting exactly as the > artist was wanting. I agree that it is a sophmoric and unimaginitive > exercise. It's more pathetic than criminal. > > Steve Moore > > > On May 8, 2008, at 3:39 PM, Joseph Duemer > wrote: > >> Steve, your facts do not coincide with the ones I discovered in my >> research into this topic. The artist & gallery owner have issues a >> series of contradictory & self-serving statements. The original >> version of the story is, certainly, exaggerated, but that's not >> really the point, is it? Do you really want to make excuses for such >> a display? >> >> Sorry for posting the link a second time, but here is my take: >> http://www.sharpsand.net/2008/04/27/guillermo-vargas-habacuc/ >> >> Also: >> http://www.sharpsand.net/2008/04/28/animals/ >> >> The problem with Vargas' piece, though, is conceptual & ethical, >> regardless of what happened to the dog. Literalizing metaphors is, >> usually, a sophomoric exercise; in this case, a sophomoric stunt -- >> whatever its motives -- made an exhibition of suffering. Your post >> appears to defend that exhibitionism. I find that troubling. >> >> jd >> >> >> >> On Thu, May 8, 2008 at 6:57 PM, Steve Moore > > wrote: >> >> I encountered this some weeks back. After researching into it >> quite extensively, this is what I discovered. The artist and the >> gallery owner secretly fed and cared for the dog, which was a >> stray they found, at night. The dog was actually well treated, >> other than having to sit around a gallery all day (which would >> bore me to death). Eventually, they released the dog, but claimed >> it had died. The whole point of the exhibit was to show how >> passive and emotionless art world consumers are. how art doesn't >> impact them on a visceral level, it's just an elitist exercise. I >> think he proved his point, but then got more than he bargained >> for when the story showed up on the internets. >> >> -Steven Allen Moore >> >> >> >> -- >> Joseph Duemer >> Professor of Humanities >> Clarkson University >> Weblog: sharpsand.net >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ The moral is this: in American verse, The better you are, the pay is worse. --Corey Ford From JforJames at aol.com Thu May 8 22:23:32 2008 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames@aol.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:36 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Death Fugue #1 Message-ID: Death Fugue Black milk of dawn we drink it at dusk we drink it at noon and at daybreak we drink it at night we drink and we drink we are digging a grave in the air there?s room for us all A man lives in the house he plays with the serpents he writes he writes when it darkens to Germany your golden hair Margarete he writes it and steps outside and the stars all aglisten he whistles for his hounds he whistles for his Jews he has them dig a grave in the earth he commands us to play for the dance Black milk of dawn we drink you at night we drink you at daybreak and noon we drink you at dusk we drink and we drink A man lives in the house he plays with the serpents he writes he writes when it darkens to Germany your golden hair Margarete Your ashen hair Shulamite we are digging a grave in the air there?s room for us all He shouts cut deeper in the earth to some the rest of you sing and play he reaches for the iron in his belt he heaves it his eyes are blue make your spades cut deeper the rest of you play for the dance Black milk of dawn we drink you at night we drink you now and at daybreak we drink at dusk we drink and we drink a man lives in the house your golden hair Margarete your ashen hair Shulamite he plays with the serpents He shouts play death more sweetly death is a master from Germany he shouts play the violins darker you?ll rise as smoke in the air then you?ll have a grave in the clouds there?s room for you all Black milk of dawn we drink you at night we drink you at noon death is a master from Germany we drink you at dusk and at daybreak we drink and we drink you death is a master from Germany his eye is blue he shoots you with bullets of lead his aim is true a man lives in the house your golden hair Margarete he sets his hounds on us he gives us a grave in the air he plays with the serpents and dreams death is a master from Germany your golden hair Margarete your ashen hair Shulamite ?Paul Celan Transkated by Joachim Neugroschel Paul Celan Speech-Grille and Selected Poems E.P. Dutton, 1971 **************Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family favorites at AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/dinner-tonight?NCID=aolfod00030000000001) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080508/625eb119/attachment.html From duemer at gmail.com Thu May 8 22:29:27 2008 From: duemer at gmail.com (Joseph Duemer) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:36 2009 Subject: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Re:_[New-Poetry]_POL:_Prevent_the_=E2Art?= =?ISO-8859-1?Q?istic=E2_Death_of_Another_Innocent_Animal?= In-Reply-To: <4823A50B.3090306@opus40.org> References: <54840.27818.qm@web83312.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <838A81F010B24B86BF56988952DA01F9@AnnyPC> <1451933D-1C0C-4DA7-B347-AE48AE6E218F@mac.com> <4823A50B.3090306@opus40.org> Message-ID: I don't think the artist had enough self-awareness -- to say nothing of moral awareness -- to have "wanted" a particular response from his audience. Such a formulation gives him too much credit & at the same time ignores the fundamental problem that such "wanting" raises. On the evidence, the work of art in question was a sort of spastic ejaculation of an inchoate set of feelings that Vargas has since attempted to rationalize -- sort of like George Bush & his dead-end defenders rationalizing the Iraq War first one way, then another, then revising their revisions. To imagine that Vargas' work could emerge from any coherent "wanting" to effect some response in his audience gives him far too much credit. We ought to treat him as we would a child we discovered pulling the wings off dragonflies -- with a certain amount of pity & a firm command to never do such a thing again. jd On Thu, May 8, 2008 at 9:12 PM, TheOldMole wrote: > Not if you're the dog. > > Steve Moore wrote: > >> I'm sorry if you misunderstood my point. I wasn't defending it as valuable >> art, I just think that people are reacting exactly as the artist was >> wanting. I agree that it is a sophmoric and unimaginitive exercise. It's >> more pathetic than criminal. >> >> Steve Moore >> >> >> On May 8, 2008, at 3:39 PM, Joseph Duemer > duemer@gmail.com>> wrote: >> >> Steve, your facts do not coincide with the ones I discovered in my >>> research into this topic. The artist & gallery owner have issues a series of >>> contradictory & self-serving statements. The original version of the story >>> is, certainly, exaggerated, but that's not really the point, is it? Do you >>> really want to make excuses for such a display? >>> >>> Sorry for posting the link a second time, but here is my take: >>> http://www.sharpsand.net/2008/04/27/guillermo-vargas-habacuc/ >>> >>> Also: >>> http://www.sharpsand.net/2008/04/28/animals/ >>> >>> The problem with Vargas' piece, though, is conceptual & ethical, >>> regardless of what happened to the dog. Literalizing metaphors is, usually, >>> a sophomoric exercise; in this case, a sophomoric stunt -- whatever its >>> motives -- made an exhibition of suffering. Your post appears to defend that >>> exhibitionism. I find that troubling. >>> >>> jd >>> >>> >>> >>> On Thu, May 8, 2008 at 6:57 PM, Steve Moore >> s.allen.moore@mac.com>> wrote: >>> >>> I encountered this some weeks back. After researching into it >>> quite extensively, this is what I discovered. The artist and the >>> gallery owner secretly fed and cared for the dog, which was a >>> stray they found, at night. The dog was actually well treated, >>> other than having to sit around a gallery all day (which would >>> bore me to death). Eventually, they released the dog, but claimed >>> it had died. The whole point of the exhibit was to show how >>> passive and emotionless art world consumers are. how art doesn't >>> impact them on a visceral level, it's just an elitist exercise. I >>> think he proved his point, but then got more than he bargained >>> for when the story showed up on the internets. >>> >>> -Steven Allen Moore >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Joseph Duemer >>> Professor of Humanities >>> Clarkson University >>> Weblog: sharpsand.net >>> _______________________________________________ >>> New-Poetry mailing list >>> New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu >>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > > -- > Tad Richards > http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ > http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ > > The moral is this: in American verse, > The better you are, the pay is worse. > --Corey Ford > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Joseph Duemer Professor of Humanities Clarkson University Weblog: sharpsand.net -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080508/deb0f69d/attachment.html From Rsgwynn1 at cs.com Thu May 8 22:33:34 2008 From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com (Rsgwynn1@cs.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:36 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] it's a book Message-ID: In a message dated 5/8/2008 6:54:56 PM Central Daylight Time, amparker@davidson.edu writes: > http://boaeditions.org/books/elephants.html > Congrats, Alan. Sam -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080508/9de96645/attachment.html From AlMaginnes at aol.com Thu May 8 23:09:53 2008 From: AlMaginnes at aol.com (AlMaginnes@aol.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:36 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] it's a book Message-ID: Good work Alan. Glad to hear it. **************Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family favorites at AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/dinner-tonight?NCID=aolfod00030000000001) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080508/d0d6174c/attachment.html From asurkont at localnet.com Fri May 9 04:34:06 2008 From: asurkont at localnet.com (Amanda Surkont) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:36 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Marbles In-Reply-To: <8CA7F5D7E2DCECB-1640-31A1@webmail-mf04.sysops.aol.com> References: <50EA3DBC64CA49EFAEE5C85306DBFA02@AnnyPC> <8CA7F5D7E2DCECB-1640-31A1@webmail-mf04.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: Marbles are highly collectible. At an estate auction a little leather sack of marbles can go for hundreds. The buyer sometimes wants just one marble in the sack and will sell the remainder on ebay or other auction sites. If you have a few minutes to dawdle about, check completed listings on ebay and sort from the highest to the lowest pricing tier. Marble lots can go for thousands and a single marble could bring that much if a collector is looking for a specific piece. They have come a long way from the days of them being tossed about the school yard. best, manda On Thu, 08 May 2008 16:01:52 -0400, wrote: > > It's been several decades, but I think cat's-eye marbles were > mostly clear with a dash of color in the middle. At least that's > what we called cat's-eyes. I loved my marbles. I only had a couple > dozen but they were prized possessions and I kept them in a > little leather sack with a tie-cord. Ah, youth! > Richard > From jforjames at aol.com Fri May 9 09:21:00 2008 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames@aol.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:36 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] WorldPo: 2 Syrian poets Message-ID: <8CA7FEEA840E439-688-2B8F@webmail-db15.sysops.aol.com> http://weekly.ahram.org.eg/2008/896/cu1.htm The death of grand poetry? Commemorating the anniversaries of the deaths of two great Arab poets, Mona Anis investigates the contemporary role of the poet -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Literary circles in the Arab world last week commemorated the tenth anniversary of the death of the Syrian poet Nizar Qabbani (1923-1998), and this month marks 25 years since the death of the Egyptian poet Amal Donqol (1940-1983). Though they belonged to different generations -- and had very different literary sensibilities -- these two poets shared certain things: many of their poems have strong political overtones and the popularity of their poems has meant that they are still widely read and quoted from today. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080509/9aee7e7c/attachment.html From shin02143 at aol.com Fri May 9 10:20:35 2008 From: shin02143 at aol.com (shin02143@aol.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:36 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] celan In-Reply-To: <415993.605.qm@web35507.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <8CA7FF6FB1EB8AA-114-1ACA@WEBMAIL-MB20.sysops.aol.com> Maybe I'm hallucinating, but Celan, in this instance at least, sounds a little like E E Cummings. Anyone else get that sense? Not that I'm saying Cummings influenced Celan, of course. At any rate, Joris' translation(s) feel very true to the original, or at least favorably comparable. Richard -----Original Message----- From: Alexander Dickow To: new-poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Thu, 8 May 2008 4:40 pm Subject: [New-Poetry] celan You're very welcome, Richard! I'll take you up on that offer, Jim: here's a Joris version from Breathturn, real masterpieces: By the undreamt etched, the sleeplessly wandered-through breadland casts up the life mountain. >From its crumb you knead anew our names, which I, an eye similar to yours on each finger, probe for a place, through which I can wake myself toward you, the bright hungercandle in mouth. *** Into the furrows of heavencoin in the doorcrack you press the word from which I rolled, when I with trembling fists the roof over us dismantled, slate for slate, syllable for syllable, for the copper- glimmer of the begging- cup's sake up there. Amicalement, Alex www.alexdickow.net/blog/ les mots! ah quel d?sert ? la fin merveilleux. -- Henri Droguet _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080509/fac0ba07/attachment.html From shin02143 at aol.com Fri May 9 10:24:49 2008 From: shin02143 at aol.com (shin02143@aol.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:36 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Remembering one Prague Spring In-Reply-To: <8CA7F6BF2608DA1-14A8-3993@webmail-db06.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CA7F6BF2608DA1-14A8-3993@webmail-db06.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <8CA7FF792AB9560-114-1B15@WEBMAIL-MB20.sysops.aol.com> In 1965, when American beatnik poet Allen Ginsberg was crowned King of May and paraded through the streets, it was clear to the Czechoslovak secret police that the celebration had drifted way off-message and far out of state control. Heh-heh, that taught them a think or two. Wish I'd been there. Richard Plan your next roadtrip with MapQuest.com: America's #1 Mapping Site. _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080509/f5455caa/attachment.html From tony at starve.org Fri May 9 11:39:47 2008 From: tony at starve.org (Tony Trigilio) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:36 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] The Beat Generation Symposium (Columbia College Chicago, Oct. 10-11, 2008) Message-ID: <48247043.5020403@starve.org> Hi everyone-- I'm delighted to email, below, full information on the Beat Generation Symposium that the Beat Studies Association is putting together for October 10-11, 2008, at Columbia College Chicago. I'll be sending the call for papers shortly. Please keep in mind, as I say below in the announcement, that hotel rooms are at a PREMIUM that weekend. It's important that you book your room as soon as possible, as the Chicago Marathon is taking place October 12. (We only discovered this convergence recently, after we'd already booked the featured readers.) The Homewood Suites in downtown Chicago (close to Columbia's campus) has created a room block for us. Information on this is below. But I also provided a list of hotels in the area, with contact information. If you have any other questions, please email back to the list, or feel free to email me directly (ttrigilio@colum.edu). Hope to see you there! Best, Tony *********************************************** THE BEAT GENERATION SYMPOSIUM *********************************************** Please join us for a conference devoted to the literary and cultural legacy of the Beat Generation: "The Beat Generation Symposium," sponosored by the Beat Studies Association, Columbia College Chicago, and Illinois State University. Friday, October 10, and Saturday, October 11, 2008. Location: Columbia College Chicago, Film Row Theater (1104 South Wabash Avenue, 8th floor). This is an academic Beat Studies conference to be held in conjunction with the Columbia College's Center for the Book and Paper Arts's Fall 2008 display of the Jack Kerouac ON THE ROAD manuscript scroll. The Beat Generation Symposium features panel discussions each day, with poetry readings by Joanne Kyger (October 10) and Diane di Prima (October 11). Conference fee for those who pre-register before August 1: $50 ($25 for Graduate Students, Independent Scholars, and Retired Faculty). After August 1, the fees are $100 and $50. Checks should be made payable to Columbia College Chicago, and should be sent to: Columbia Ticket Center 33 East Congress St., Suite 610 Chicago, IL 60605 Ph: 312-344-6600 (fax 312-344-8470) columbiatickets@colum.edu A limited number of hotel rooms are available at the Homewood Suites by Hilton Chicago-Downtown, 40 East Grand Avenue, Chicago. This hotel is a very short cab or subway ride from the Columbia campus. The Homewood Suites prepared a special link for us to book online. Just click below and you'll find directions for reserving a room: http://homewoodsuites.hilton.com/en/hw/groups/personalized/CHIHWHW-CLC-20081009/index.jhtml It's important that you book your room as soon as possible, as the Chicago Marathon is taking place October 12. (We only discovered this convergence recently, after we'd already booked the featured readers.) A Visitor's Guide for the Beat Symposium is pasted below, with a list of nearby hotels. Columbia College Chicago is located downtown, in the heart of the city's South Loop neighborhood, and is easily accessible from these hotels by foot or cab. All major subway/El trains come into the South Loop, too, so it's possible to book hotels in other parts of the city and make it to the Symposium without difficulty. Mention that you're a Columbia College Chicago visitor to receive discounted rates at some of these hotels. It's crucial to book as soon as possible because of the marathon. For more information, contact Tony Trigilio at ttrigilio@colum.edu (312-344-8138). VISITOR'S GUIDE: THE BEAT GENERATION SYMPOSIUM Airports: O'Hare Airport (western suburbs) and Midway Airport (southern suburbs) are the two airports servicing the Chicgao area. They are approximately equidistant from Columbia College. Transportation: From Midway Airport, take the Orange Line elevated train to Adams Street. From there, walk south on Wabash until you reach Congress Parkway. From O'Hare Airport, take the Blue Line to La Salle. Walk East on Congress (away from the Chicago Stock Exchange Building, which you'll see upon emerging from the subway) until you reach Wabash (about 5 short blocks). Use www.transitchicago.com's free Trip Planner service to plan the rest of your trips while you're here. Simply enter your starting point and destination, and Trip Planner gives you detailed directions. As of 2008, fares are $2.00 one-way with a $0.25 transfer. Each train station has kiosks where you can buy transit cards and reload them (cash only). The Blue Line and Red Line run 24/7; the other lines stop running for a few hours late at night. Taxis are available throughout the city. From Midway Airport to the English Department, cab fare would be approximately $25 and from O'Hare Airport cab fare would be approximately $50. If you need to call a cab, call (773) or (312) TAXICAB. Metra Trains service suburban areas. Visit www.metrarail.com for an updated schedule and fare list. LIST OF NEARBY HOTELS The Hilton and Towers 722 S Michigan Ave (0.2 miles from the English Department) (312) 922-4400 The Palmer House Hilton 17 E Monroe St (0.4 miles away) (312) 726-7500 or 1-800-HILTONS The Best Western Grant Park 1100 S Michigan Ave (0.6 mi) (312) 922-2900 Travelodge 65 E Harrison St (0.1 mi) (312) 427-8000 Hotel Blake 500 S Dearborn St (0.3 mi) (312) 986-1234 www.hyatt.com Blackstone Hotel 819 S Wabash Ave # 606 (0.3 mi) (312) 447-0955 marriott.com Congress Plaza Hotel 520 S Michigan Ave (0.1 mi) (312) 427-3800 congressplazahotel.com The Silversmith Hotel 10 S Wabash Ave (0.4 mi) (312) 372-7696 silversmithchicagohotel.com Omni Ambassador East 1301 S State St (0.7 mi) (312) 787-3700 Embassy Suites Hotel Chicago-Downtown 600 North State Street (1.5 mi) (312) 943-3800 embassysuites.com Essex Inn Hotel 800 S Michigan Ave (0.3 mi) (312) 939-2800 essexinn.com Club Quarters: Hotel 111 W Adams St (0.4 mi) (312) 214-6400 clubquarters.com W Hotels-Chicago City Center 172 W Adams St (0.4 mi) (312) 332-1200 starwoodhotels.com Hostelling International Chicago 24 E Congress Pkwy (0.1 mi) (312) 360-0300 hichicago.org From tony at starve.org Fri May 9 11:40:38 2008 From: tony at starve.org (Tony Trigilio) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:36 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Call for Papers: The Beat Generation Symposium, Columbia College Chicago Message-ID: <48247076.9040200@starve.org> Please note the call for papers below. Not all the panels slots have been filled, so if you have any idea for a proposal, send it to Nancy Grace as soon as possible. Best, Tony ____________________________ Call for Papers The Beat Generation Symposium (sponsored by the Beat Studies Association and Columbia College Chicago) October 10-11, 2008 Columbia College Chicago, Film Row Theatre (1104 S. Wabash, 8th floor) This is an academic Beat Studies conference to be held on the campus of Columbia College in conjunction with the Center for the Book and Paper Arts's Fall 2008 display of the Jack Kerouac ON THE ROAD manuscript scroll. Featured Speakers: Diane di Prima and Joanne Kyger. Proposals on any and all Beat-related topics are welcome, but we are particularly interested in papers that (1) explore lesser known or under-studied Beat writers or (2) introduce a new critical vision of Beat topics such as religion, the Cold War, bohemian cultures, the arts, gender, race/ethnicity, etc. Proposals should be at least 500 words in length (longer is better) and clearly demonstrate the relevance of the proposed paper to Beat Studies. Please send proposal to: Nancy Grace Professor of English The College of Wooster Wooster, OH 44691 Deadline: May 15, 2008 From amparker at davidson.edu Fri May 9 11:45:57 2008 From: amparker at davidson.edu (Parker, Alan Michael) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:37 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] elephants Message-ID: Hey, Finnegan. Yeppers, there's a title poem. Tres wacky, as the French wouldn't say. I tend to like title poems. I'd love to hear if anyone objects to them, and why? Know any title poems that were wrong for a book, for example? Best, AMP Alan Michael Parker www.amparker.com From anny.ballardini at tin.it Fri May 9 11:57:52 2008 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:37 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] An Elephant Poem In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: :-) that is funny. While I have the birds shitting all round my balcony, people passing by will soon say, you see all that bird shit, that's where Anny Ballardini lives... Yes, because since they were destroying my beloved plants, I started feeding them seeds which they did not notice for a month, but finally one day they did, and so, instead of the blackbird couple only, I had the two (they just _love_ me!) plus a discreet number of swallows. Believe it or not, when I got back from the States, I opened the window, filled up their cup and added some fresh water, the male blackbird was the first to notice the new goodies and sitting on the railing started singing such an incredible and loud song that it broke my heart, and then he flew down and had his lunch. At least he is a Gentleman, besides being a superb black bird! ----- Original Message ----- From: JforJames@aol.com To: new-poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Friday, May 09, 2008 2:50 AM Subject: [New-Poetry] An Elephant Poem Rossetti?s Elephant The British painter and poet Dante Gabriel Rossetti (1828-82) announced that he wanted to buy an elephant. When his friends asked what that could be good for, he said, "So I can teach it to wash the windows of my house." When they still seemed puzzled, he added, "Then everyone would stare and say, 'That elephant is washing the windows of the house in which lives Dante Gabriel Rossetti, the famous artist." At first the elephant stood steadfast and confused, They handed him the sponge to grasp instead of using it to scrub his hide of the dirt and vermin. They prodded him with sharp bamboo sticks, forced him to hold the sponge aloft, to make circular motions with his trunk, first in air, and then over glass. Of course he broke some panes along the way, But he was the kind of beast that took to training, and in a week or so he was dipping and sopping, raising and washing each window in its turn. And people did come by. People loved to see him trampling the shrubbery, absolutely obviously, or would gasp and feign dismay when he relieved himself copiously on the front lawn. Sometimes he would press a large eye against the glass. Nothing to eat?Persian carpets and ornate furnishings, walls hung with paintings. When Rossetti died the contents auctioned off, and the elephant sold to a circus in Leeds. For years afterwards people called it The Elephant?s House. It was remarked that it had 22 bright windows and 18 times that number in facets of glittering panes, but only an oak tree now to cast a shadow upon it. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family favorites at AOL Food. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.10/1421 - Release Date: 5/7/2008 5:23 PM -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080509/3665cf8d/attachment.html From paul at tbhinc.com Fri May 9 12:09:18 2008 From: paul at tbhinc.com (Paul C. Howell) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:37 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: New-Poetry Digest, Vol 47, Issue 10 - Celan In-Reply-To: <200805081600.m48G05Lr005708@wiz.cath.vt.edu> References: <200805081600.m48G05Lr005708@wiz.cath.vt.edu> Message-ID: <0K0L008T6ZJLUQ80@VL-MO-MR004.ip.videotron.ca> Thanks, David. I'm glad to get this one. I had not seen it before. >Date: Wed, 7 May 2008 13:19:00 -0500 >From: David Graham >Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Paul Celan >To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views" > >Message-ID: <11A795D1-DA46-455A-A3B5-852816DF3FF9@ripon.edu> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > >Here's one from my deep vaults: > >Paul Celan > > >"I hear that the axe has flowered," >you said. It must have been >a furious bloom, for the chips that flew >to heal you, and then lie >soft and harmless on your collar. > >It must have been a flowering >when the train rolled >from its tunnel, led by a shaft >of the purest light, as if >goodness could roll from the grave. > >Your parents, riding that train, >couid not have foreseen >an axe gone crazy, glinting >black, an axe that would salt >and eat its own handle. > >Was it impossible for you >in Paris, lecturing >to children of the dead? >Did I hear you sift down >like chalk dusting a classroom? > >Under a desktop in the last row >your initials deepen. >But I will have to stop saying >"Imagine Celan, who killed himself." >Everyone kills himself. > >--fr. *Magic Shows*. Cleveland University Poetry Center, 1986. > >======================================== >David Graham >grahamd@ripon.edu > >Home Page: >http://web.mac.com/drjazz > >Poetry Library: >http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html >========================================== > > > > >O From editor at pavementsaw.org Fri May 9 14:09:14 2008 From: editor at pavementsaw.org (David Baratier) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:37 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: celan In-Reply-To: <200805091600.m49G04Lq006740@wiz.cath.vt.edu> Message-ID: <472934.58333.qm@web45612.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> I have a new chapbook out called _after Celan_ from Slack Budda Press, a series of mine that deals with the notions contained within the last three collections esp _atemwende_. I think a few of the poems are on Anny's site. Here is part of the forward that explains the project, I can send it signed for six dollars to the US, address below. -------------------- A forward to the series These are from a series called After Celan, a serial poem-set started in late 2003, which might need some background information, specifically about Paul Celan's poems themselves. Pierre Joris spent twenty years translating Celan's book Atemwende and since I know what it is like to spend years putting together a book for the public to read through my experience editing and publishing Hands Collected The Books of Simon Perchik: Poems 1949-1999 I knew this would be a worthy book. Especially when considering Joris was already important in my mind for significantly contributing to Paul Blackburn scholarship by publishing a wonderful super-sized issue of _6 Pack_ dedicated to his work. Things typically take a few years to plumb with me, and when Fadensonnen / Threadsuns was released in 2000, I re-read Atemwende / Breathturn then left his work alone. Three years later I was thinking of something he said "through its strangeness a poem breaks open new reality" or, if my memory is correct, that Primo Levy attributed to Celan. I started re-imagining the poems without reading them; how a suicide, specifically his, might break open reality. Anyway, I start seeing Celan at the top tower of a castle found in the Book of Thoth, it is a turned, bendy building, and tower itself translates to War in the Hebraic symbol, which makes perfect sense come to think of it, and he is taunting all with his words, an arrogant cusp of a man spitting on those below. The series changes some details, makes the country America, supplants the genocide of Jews with Indians, integrates Celan into the multi-dimensional framework of the hereafter. Shortly thereafter an entourage of suicides taunt me, a singer has an epileptic attack rolling around during a verse, about to tell me something pertinent, before his throat bucks in. A month long meditation on death appears in the mail from a friend after his sister cops an attempt, and in January Spaulding Gray finally submerged. In a recent study I read poets have a shorter life span than nearly all professions, except workers in the sex trade, drug runners, armed robbers, offshore oil rig workers and deep sea fishers. Against the standard set by the others, poetry is the ONLY life choice where high risk does not bring a reasonably outrageous cash return. This in turn lead me to understand that in Celan's time where the most outlantish thing one could do against society was off oneself, whereas now, in a hyper-capital-conscious society, spending three hours writing a poem, an act which does not increase the Gross National Product, does not buy a Kenmore dishwasher, does not buy a cup of coffee, culturally fills the same social position. I wanted to write a series that further explored this new capacity for absence available to the modern poem. Thus came this series, whose methods were couched in the desire to have a translator spend a significant portion of their life working on transforming this project of mine into German as a revenge type of situation while at the same time I would live an unreasonable amount of time as a poet as a further reification of the ultimate defense of poetry, that of the body held beyond the poems need for one (just to see what would happen theory-wise). As for the construction of the poems, it's as methodical as an obsession with recycling objects from a bleak landscape. Start with a word or phrase possibly in English, or another language, but unfamiliar enough where the reader is debased and unsure of the meaning and whether the word is in actual existence. The word is capitalized to make fun of Celan, to flip him off for infiltrating my days. Or else to imply the Victorian Period where capitalizing an abstract term gave it more "value." For instance, Valor, or Honesty, Love, Poop. After this word I give a brief definition of a wildly imagined word meaning; or what the word, when broken into components, would logically equate to; or else what it actually means. After this first line is attained the rules are easy, use as many words as possible that cannot be translated into German so that some person years from now spends a few decades trying to decipher the code. These words are often compactions of multiple words that rely on a kenning form of metaphor, specifically called a baratier, to work. While a kenning is a combo with a dash, take "whale-road" from Melville, meaning the sea is a highway for whales, and a portmanteau combines two words together ?smoke + fog=smog? for a singular meaning, the baratier uses a fused multiword construct such as ?utteristance? that each reader will come up with their own meaning for, thereby producing a wilder form of metaphor than what is currently called the ?radical copular form,? A is B. What a reader will acquire from these I am unsure of. There are plenty of jokes in the series, in #8, the second line is a crack about code poetry; in some I use words that make me laugh, just try to come up with a funnier name than Twachtman for a painter; in #13, which appears in an online journal called poetic inhalation, I create a poem that rhymes but cannot be read aloud, as mouths do not work that way, let alone be translated. Ultimately, what I am hoping each reader will grasp from this series is a pen and their checkbook and mail six or more dollars to David Baratier / 321 Empire Street / Montpelier, OH 43543. And, if deciding these are your type of thing, you will encourage others to do the same for Slack Buddha Press. ------ Be well David Baratier, Editor Pavement Saw Press 321 Empire Street Montpelier OH 43543 http://pavementsaw.org Subscribe to our e-mail listserv at http://pavementsaw.org/list/?p=subscribe&id=1 --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080509/f726a067/attachment.html From jforjames at aol.com Fri May 9 20:00:34 2008 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames@aol.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:37 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] An Elephant Poem In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8CA804801146E18-738-158C@mblk-d49.sysops.aol.com> ? In Dispraise Of Poetry ?? ? When the King of Siam disliked a courtier, he gave him a beautiful white elephant. The miracle beast deserved such ritual that to care for him properly meant ruin. Yet to care for him improperly was worse. It appears the gift could not be refused. --Jack Gilbert? ? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080509/0fd90dbe/attachment.html From anny.ballardini at tin.it Sat May 10 02:01:26 2008 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:37 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] An Elephant Poem In-Reply-To: <8CA804801146E18-738-158C@mblk-d49.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CA804801146E18-738-158C@mblk-d49.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <2ECAF1E6BDA04C80A3F8A9F499ABD395@AnnyPC> Yes, I remember this poem. Refined punishment. ----- Original Message ----- From: jforjames@aol.com To: new-poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Saturday, May 10, 2008 2:00 AM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] An Elephant Poem In Dispraise Of Poetry When the King of Siam disliked a courtier, he gave him a beautiful white elephant. The miracle beast deserved such ritual that to care for him properly meant ruin. Yet to care for him improperly was worse. It appears the gift could not be refused. --Jack Gilbert -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080510/e468da4d/attachment.html From david.bircumshaw at ntlworld.com Sat May 10 02:42:18 2008 From: david.bircumshaw at ntlworld.com (David Bircumshaw) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:37 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] An Elephant Poem In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <482543CA.4080908@ntlworld.com> > When Rossetti died the contents auctioned off, > and the elephant sold to a circus in Leeds. I like the story, James. A query: in US English do you use 'auctioned off' in that way? The sentence, to my mind, is screaming out for a missing 'were' before 'auctioned' or 'was' before 'sold' as the grammar of the sentence demands such but maybe that's just to British ears. Best Dave -- David Bircumshaw Website and A Chide's Alphabet http://homepage.ntlworld.com/david.bircumshaw/ The Animal Subsides http://www.arrowheadpress.co.uk/books/animal.html Leicester Poetry Society: http://www.poetryleicester.co.uk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080510/d30d5634/attachment.html From anny.ballardini at tin.it Sat May 10 07:49:04 2008 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:37 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] the Postmoderns Message-ID: <067D71803F1D4990B821714AF9D48669@AnnyPC> I just found this: http://books.google.it/books?id=zZaYmNUy5BkC&pg=PA122&lpg=PA122&dq=Philip+Whalen,+from+Sourdough+Mountain+Lookout&source=web&ots=QqF7Y___WO&sig=6e8WW5v8M_rjUJF_tVipcS2ELiA&hl=en#PPP1,M1 Edited and With a New Preface by Donald Allen and George F. Butterick Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080510/d58313e7/attachment.html From jforjames at aol.com Sat May 10 19:44:39 2008 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames@aol.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:37 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Wyatt revisited Message-ID: <8CA810EF2894781-D18-1AB0@Webmail-mg12.sim.aol.com> http://books.guardian.co.uk/review/story/0,,2279092,00.html -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The private life of a courtier unmasked Nicholas Lezard finds the selected poems of Sir Thomas Wyatt to be almost modern Saturday May 10, 2008 The Guardian ? Buy Sir Thomas Wyatt at the Guardian bookshop ? Another clutch of slim vols from the Faber Poet-to-Poet series; I picked on this one (others include selections of Pope and Hart Crane) because, well, I felt like it. And anyone who ever read or used John Hayward's Penguin Book of English Verse will be familiar with the opening poem of the volume, Thomas Wyatt's "They flee from me that sometime did me seek ..." For many readers and schoolchildren, then, English poetry actually begins with Wyatt. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080510/f03d2916/attachment.html From jforjames at aol.com Sat May 10 19:46:20 2008 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames@aol.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:37 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] WorldPo: Scotland Message-ID: <8CA810F2EB61861-D18-1AB7@Webmail-mg12.sim.aol.com> http://entertainment.timesonline.co.uk/tol/arts_and_entertainment/books/poetry/article3907945.ece May 11, 2008 Gillian Ferguson finds the poetry in DNA An Edinburgh poet has taken the human genome as her muse Richard Wilson Gillian Ferguson was never much of a science student. The memory of an early O-grade chemistry lesson at school prompts an embarrassed chuckle from the Edinburgh-born poet. ?I seem to remember that I created mass during an experiment when that was supposed to be impossible to do,? she says with a grin. ?It wasn't my forte, so I did more art and dropped chemistry.? Yet as a writer, -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080510/67ba42fd/attachment.html From robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com Sun May 11 08:39:51 2008 From: robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com (Robin Hamilton) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:37 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Wyatt revisited References: <8CA810EF2894781-D18-1AB0@Webmail-mg12.sim.aol.com> Message-ID: <01c701c8b364$1d9f74b0$4201a8c0@HP10652193472> Among the more than several things about this review which set my teeth on edge, I have to say this particular paragraph takes the biscuit: "Which is, of course, far from the case, but, apart from that, what a way to begin: it's an extraordinarily affecting verse; as Al Alvarez once noted, it uses the grammar of a dream, if not actually a dream-poem itself. "It was no dream," begins the final stanza, "I lay broad waking. / But all is turned through my gentleness / Into a strange fashion of forsaking." Dreamlike, then, or like a memory of a hallucination, with that uneasy feeling of regret felt sometimes on awakening." Anyone notice anything odd about this line as quoted -- " But all is turned through my gentleness"? Bit unmetrical, but only to be expected with Wyatt, you might think. Shame, given the prominence it has in the review, that it wasn't what Wyatt wrote. In the correct reading of the line (from the version in the Egerton MS) it reads, "But all is turned thorough my gentleness," where the extra syllable in "thorough" makes all the difference. (I've come across a similar mess with Marvell's couplet, "Tear our pleasures with rough strife / Thorough the iron gates of life," but only when it was read incompetently, not in a printed text.) I don't know whether the mistake is the editor's or the reviewer's -- I suspect the former, but I don't have a copy of the text to look at. But whatever, it's not simply a mechanical mistake -- any ear for rhythm would suggest there's something wrong with the line as quoted in the Guardian review. Another Wyatt edition to be avoided, I suspect. Robin ----- Original Message ----- From: jforjames@aol.com To: new-poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Sunday, May 11, 2008 12:44 AM Subject: [New-Poetry] Wyatt revisited http://books.guardian.co.uk/review/story/0,,2279092,00.html -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The private life of a courtier unmasked Nicholas Lezard finds the selected poems of Sir Thomas Wyatt to be almost modern Saturday May 10, 2008 The Guardian Buy Sir Thomas Wyatt at the Guardian bookshop Another clutch of slim vols from the Faber Poet-to-Poet series; I picked on this one (others include selections of Pope and Hart Crane) because, well, I felt like it. And anyone who ever read or used John Hayward's Penguin Book of English Verse will be familiar with the opening poem of the volume, Thomas Wyatt's "They flee from me that sometime did me seek ..." For many readers and schoolchildren, then, English poetry actually begins with Wyatt. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080511/03335c66/attachment.html From amyhappens at yahoo.com Sun May 11 16:21:11 2008 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:38 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] =?utf-8?q?Re=3A_POL=3A_Prevent_the_=E2=80=9CArtisti?= =?utf-8?q?c=E2=80=9DDeath__of_Another_Innocent_Animal?= Message-ID: <993960.96255.qm@web83304.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Mark, You're right -- the treatment of animals and for what purposes is not so black and white. I too never assumed so. In fact, I've struggled with the issue on a personal level, often hypocritically, for years. I eat seafood as though those living beings don't have feelings. I've been sick as of late and have turned to chicken soup, something I haven't eaten since 1990. I buy kosher and organic whenever possible. I cross my fingers and hope that promise that the animals were given food and treated humanely is true. I don't condemn people who eat animals or wear their by-products; I'd walk around angry all the time, especially at myself. Eliminating the products of animals from our lives seems next to impossible. But when folks get bogged down or distracted by an "It's art" claim when it comes to issues of accountability (usually to shirk accountability), most especially by people such as artists who are making a public statement using animals, the territory gets dangerous. These "artists" try to set the terms and evade the ethical questions, as Vargas has done. He treated the dog in terms he won't acknowledge for "the greater good" of other starving dogs. Great. He brought attention to those dogs? There was no other way than to seemingly abuse one of them? Somehow I don't imagine that all of the other citizens of Costa Rica sit around idly ignoring what I'm sure is dubbed the starving dog problem. Certainly there are organizations he could produce a campaign for. He could speak out, contribute time, use his public persona to recruit attention and volunteers, any number of other efforts I can't imagine at the moment. Instead, the outrage he produced has instead focused on his dubious treatment of one dog, rightfully so, instead of the cause he claims to have exhibited a starving dog for. How effective was his "piece" in its goal? Could he have been more effective? Those who consider the ethical before the supposed artistic "gains" are dismissed with a variety of reasons, mostly ones that implicate they are not sophisticated enough to understand the artist's aesthetics. We are then supposed to feel less-then-intellectual and quiet down in embarrassment. Some of these "aesthetics" have managed to erase the ethical and lead to thinking like eugenics (Yeats, Eliot) and even the advancement of the Holocaust. Wasn't Hitler, after all, trying to make things better? Some have called him an artist. Didn't he sell that vision? The art produced under his regime, especially that of Riefenstahl's and her ground-breaking aesthetics, cost many lives and much torture. Now without the shock value, where would Vargas be? Would he be a decent artist? Would he be noticed? Aren't art and aesthetics about much more than finding the next shock value boundary? On another note and for those folks who are interested in the treatment of animals, most especially ourselves, I just started reading what already seems like a brilliant new book by Barbara Kingsolver, ANIMAL, VEGETABLE, MINERAL: http://www.kingsolver.com/bookshelf/miracle.asp And a review: Because It?s Good for You, That?s Why By JANET MASLIN ANIMAL, VEGETABLE, MIRACLE A Year of Food Life By Barbara Kingsolver with Steven L. Hopp and Camille Kingsolver There are many ways for a writer to tell you to eat your vegetables: earnestly, humorously, scientifically, self-righteously, instructively or so voluptuously that the page practically reeks of fertilizer. Barbara Kingsolver?s way is both folksy and smart. While she is cogent and illuminating about serious matters of nutrition, Ms. Kingsolver also finds ways to convey what it?s like to be showered with friends? plants as birthday gifts, regard a full supply of potatoes as ?homeland security,? and fend off the amorous attention of a lovesick turkey hen. ?Animal, Vegetable, Miracle? is a wonderfully neighborly account of stunt eating. Ms. Kingsolver and her family would describe their adventure in other terms, but experiments in studied simplicity are increasingly frequent. Their basic plan to change their way of living was not unique by either culinary or publishing standards. They decided to leave their arid life in Tucson (?like many other modern U.S. cities, it might as well be a space station where human sustenance is concerned?) and moved to Virginia, where they already owned a farm in an Appalachian hollow. They would work the farm and live on local or home-grown food for a full calendar year. This meant no snack foods, no processed ones, no cucumbers from warmer parts of the world. ?Six eyes, all beloved to me, stared unblinking as I crossed the exotics off our shopping list, one by one,? Ms. Kingsolver writes about the family?s adjustment to these strictures. With the exceptions of olive oil, grains and spices, everything they ate was simple and in season. Was this a hardship? ?If many of us would view this style of eating as deprivation, that?s only because we?ve grown accustomed to the botanically outrageous condition of having everything, always,? she writes. She thinks most North Americans have lost their awareness of what ought to be ripe when. So ?Animal, Vegetable, Miracle? provides a helpful shorthand for knowing which vegetables to trust at which times and what questions to raise about how they?re grown. When a watermelon the size of a toddler has traveled around the world to a supermarket, Ms. Kingsolver suggests rethinking the process of how it got there. Her ideas about this are not new. And she does not pretend otherwise. ?Animal, Vegetable, Miracle? expresses the basic tenets of Slow Food International and sustainable agriculture (with accompanying information about how to become better informed about and more active in these matters), and for some of her readers this is just reiteration. But she succeeds in dramatizing her own family?s story so that these ideas come to life, anecdotally and charmingly. And she gives her book the natural momentum of a changing calendar. Meanwhile her husband, Steven L. Hopp, contributes informative sidebars despite their occasionally cute names (?Looking for Mr. Goodvegetable?). The older of her two daughters supplies recipes and the enthusiasm of a self-proclaimed ?veggie hog.? The younger daughter keeps busy raising poultry and selling eggs, and Ms. Kingsolver herself somehow manages to sustain a writing career while endlessly cooking and canning. ?We?re hoping our kids will remember us somewhere other than in the driver?s seat of the car,? she writes. A lot more people than the four members of this immediate family will remember what their household is like. Without sentimentality, this book captures the pulse of the farm and the deep gratification it provides, as well as the intrinsic humor of the situation. Growing seedlings in March and protecting them from a cold snap, Ms. Kingsolver et al. bring the plants indoors ?until our kitchen looks like the gullet and tonsils of a Chia Pet whale.? About a rooster that makes an annoying sound (?Crr-rr-arrrr...BLUPP!?), she writes: ?This guy had a future in the culinary arts. Mine.? And about the supposed paucity of food in January, she says, ?I wish I could offer high drama, some chilling tales of a family gnawing on the leather uppers of their Birkenstocks.? But by January they had learned to plan ahead, and their menus were just fine. By then they had come to rely on the freezer. ?Getting over the frozen-foods snobbery is important,? Ms. Kingsolver writes about her earlier presumptions, with the pragmatic wisdom that makes her work so solid. Ever since she grew up in Kentucky tobacco country and ?sallied out into a world where, to my surprise, farmer was widely presumed synonymous with hee-haw, and tobacco was the new smallpox,? she seems to have enjoyed the benefits of a no-baloney attitude even toward things like baloney (?I understand Spam as a reasonable protein source?) and a highly functional conscience. Both serve her well in discussing the ethics of food production. ?Animal, Vegetable, Miracle? aims to fill a hole in the soul. ?We came a long way, baby, into bad eating habits and collaterally impaired family dynamics,? Ms. Kingsolver says. ?No matter what else we do or believe, food remains at the center of every culture. Ours now runs on empty calories.? She adds: ?A lot of us are wishing for a way back home, to the place where care-and-feeding isn?t zookeeper?s duty but something happier and more creative.? And her final measure of the success of the year described here is an altered set of priorities for a writer who says it took her decades to find it flattering to be complimented as a housewife. ?I enjoy this so-called brainless work,? she says firmly. ?I like the kind of family I can raise on this kind of food.? http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05/11/books/11book.html I have to run as Mother's Day festivities call! Happy Mother's Day to all who nurture! Amy _______ http://www.amyking.org ----- Original Message ---- From: Mark Weiss To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Sent: Saturday, May 10, 2008 10:37:33 AM Subject: Re: POL: Prevent the ?Artistic?Death of Another Innocent Animal Amy: I of course agree with you, but it's not always so straightforward. Most of us kill, at least by proxy, to eat, and some animals are raised for that purpose. I remember a performance piece in New York in which an artist beat a chicken to death against the strings of a piano. Horrible. But I've also been at a religious ceremony in which a chicken's throat was cut so that it bled to death. The ceremony seemed less horrible, and not just because the killing was quicker--it seemed something like more justified, though for me as an outsider the bird's near-panic has stayed with me. Audubon killed every bird in his Birds of North America and arranged their bodies in positions he had observed them take when they were alive. Thousands of birds. There was no other way to do it. The water colors and the prints he made of them are one of the glories of 19th Century art. Nobody asked the birds what they thought. By the time of Audubon's death one of the birds he depicted was extinct, because of habitat destruction, and he was aware that it was headed in that direction. Another became extinct 60 years after his death, slaughtered for food. The casual but necessary cruelty of the barnyard and the hunt may prepare those who live with them to an aestheticization of death. Leni Riefenstahl's Triumph of the Will is one of the monuments of film. One needn't go into detail about what it cost. I sat through it once, and left the theater homicidal with grief and rage. Not an experience I plan to repeat. As a Jew, of course, every time I engage with a work of Christian art I'm aware of the cost. Most of us have attitudes about bullfighting, as outsiders. Otherwise tender-hearted Spaniards and Mexicans are devoted to it, as an art as well as a sport. I used to watch bullfights on television--they were broadcast to NY for several years from the ring in Tijuana. I had a small screen black and white tv and grainy reception, so the expience was considerably distanced. I went to one corrida years later. It was fascinating, and also necessary for my slow immersion in Latin American culture. It was also extremely disturbing. But the bullring produced Goya's Tauromaquia, and also Picasso's. One could detail the cruelties of all the sports in which animals are used, and also the art produced by devotees. Is it less gratuitous to breed horses for speed and then run them so hard that their legs break? At least injury and death is not an intended part of the spectacle, as in bullfights, dogfights or cockfights, or the pitting of animals of one species against another. All of these have been central to various cultures. And of course there's boxing. None of this of course excuses an artist who's making a political point at the expense of another creature. Had Habacuc refrained there would still be enormous numbers of starving feral dogs on the streets of Central America, and there would still be intentionally drowned puppies on the banks of every body of water. Mark >"This is irritating moral territor >Others of similar mindset, Ryan: "This is >irritating moral territory, one doesn???t want >to provide artists and their sponsors publicity >for work that???s of no artistic value, but if >the exhibitions are ignored there is a tacit >acceptance of them. Therefore it???s necessary >to identify that the dog was captured, tied up >and exhibited to die by Guillermo Habacuc >Vargas; that the woman who finds it necessary to >kill various animals before photoshopping them >is Nathalia Edenmont; and that it???s Adel >Abdessemed, as announced in this publication???s >news last week, whose exhibit includes videos of >animals being clubbed to death. The argument has >been made that these kinds of exhibits are >justified if they challenge our sensibilities or >confront our social, political and cultural >norms. This is undoubtedly true and is sometimes >valid. There is a case for shocking people so >that an artist can intercede a new slant on some >situation, directly or obliquely. But this can >be done, and has been done, very effectively and >many times, without having to kill anything >anew. There is plenty of death out there to work >with. ? It???s been called psychotic narcissism >but that ggives it too grand a gloss for these >sorry exhibits by artists who may be nothing >more than sadistic fools. It???s selfishness >through arrogance and self-glorification. The >artists should ask themselves a simple question. >Why not put myself in there, in place of the >animal? Too shocking? Yes, and just as stupid, >but without the shock these artists wouldn???t >matter, and that is their real fear." >http://www.nonstarvingartists.com/Members/zaphmann/zaph-mann/archive/2008/03/06/death-for-no-reason >_______ http://www.amyking.org ----- Original >Message ---- From: Ryan Daley > To: >POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Sent: Saturday, May >10, 2008 1:23:39 AM Subject: Re: POL: Prevent >the ???Artistic??? Death of Another Innocent >Animal Schwabsky, Sure. I'm familiar with his >work as an artist in Costa Rica. You can google >him. I'm sure you'll find more work of his. >Great stuff. Real, "middle of the night attack" >type .... Grabs a dog, makes gringos angry, >assumes many people would not act in a crisis >situation (human or animal), turns out to be >right. Sophomore effort might need revamping, >however. Shock and awe is difficult to surpass. >On Fri, May 9, 2008 at 9:53 PM, amy king > wrote: > Call it what you >like, Steve. I'll re-post one of my earlier >points before > my original post gets lost in a >separate debate altogether: > > 1. I am against >the inhumane treatment of people and animals for >any > purpose, including entertainment, >political, and for "art's sake". This > >"treatment" also includes non-treatment. If you >assume the > responsibility of caring for a >domestic animal, that includes getting > it help >if needed -- especially help that consists of >the basic > necessities. > > Would you adopt a >child or an animal, who you find out later is >sick, and > simply dismiss its condition and >your decision not to treat it just because > "it >would die eventually?" > > The above refers to >people and animals who are dependent on others >for > care. Dogs most certainly fall into that >category, especially a sickly one > you "adopt" >and "employ" for your own art exhibition, >regardless of whether > you kill it or not -- >the least Habacuc could have done was get care >and > treatment for what was obviously a sickly >animal since it was suddenly under > his "care" >and in his "employment." Instead of doing so, >he publicly > dismissed outrage against him by >stating that "the dog was going to die > >anyway." Steve - What people autonomously do >with their own bodies, and > the rights they >have to do whatever they choose (i.e. suicide, >amputation, > piercing, etc), is another >question and subject altogether. > > 2. Another >quote from the same post, since a couple of >folks on the list > seem to have taken issue >with the very fact that I even mentioned the > >petition, as well as the dissent around the >controversy: > > I might try Snopes or Hoax >Slayer, > which both determined that the claim >is ultimately disputed, as > originally pointed >out in second half of my first post, though >the > hyperlink to my > easily-googled article >didn't come through. *** But does >uncertainty > about how Habacuc ultimately did >treat the dog, and his public unwillingness > to >even claim if he killed it or set it free after >he used it for his own > public spectacle, >mean > Habacuc gets a free pass, and I should >not draw attention to this > petition? *** > > >Amy > > > > _______ > > > > >http://www.amyking.org > > > > ----- Original >Message ---- > From: steve d. dalachinsky > > To: >POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Sent: Friday, May >9, 2008 1:23:45 PM > Subject: Re: POL: Prevent >the "Artistic" Death of Another Innocent >Animal > > when folks pierce or mutilate them >selves in the name of art is that ok > because >they call it aRT? > bravo viva the >performance > > On Thu, 8 May 2008 18:01:22 >-0700 amy king >writes: > > First, you have fabricated for >yourself and for your own aims > > >Marcus, > > > > First, you have fabricated for >yourself and for your own aims this > > quagmire >of "anything is art" platform. You're trying to >set these > > terms and argue that if I don't >respond to your fabricated claim, > > then I'm >somehow against you (see your last line >below). I don't > > know where you conjured >up this "anything is art" claim since I have > > >not, even remotely, claimed or defended >it. Check out your selected > > aggressive >terminology below regarding "war", "battle", "if >you're > > defending it" etc. -- you can't even >decide what imaginary "side" I > > would assume >should I take up your terms. But. Bully for >you if > > you can find someone on this list to >argue the notion that "anything > > is art" with >you. > > > > But secondly and moreover, I know >from firsthand experience with you > > on this >list and other lists that you do indeed like to >argue, very > > much, often just for the >short-lived and shallow joy of argument's > > >sake. Sometimes people need to feel like they >have an Enemy in > > order to feel >important. If this is the case for you, I >suggest > > finding another opponent. I will >not be your enemy; I will not make > > you feel >important. Your bait is transparent and >pointless > > regarding the entire >situation. > > > > Amy > > _______ > > > > > > >http://www.amyking.org > > > > > > ----- >Original Message ---- > > From: Marcus Bales > > > To: >POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > > Sent: Thursday, >May 8, 2008 7:33:45 PM > > Subject: Re: >POL: Prevent the "Artistic" Death of >Another > > Innocent Animal > > > > > > On 8 May >2008 at 16:29, amy king wrote: > > If anything >is art, then why > > > > My criticism of the >"anything is art" school of > > thought Once >you > > say "anything" you've lost the whole war >-- if > > ANYTHING is art, > > "Anything is >art", you say it is. I'm trying to > > point >out "anything is art" > > > > But if you say >that anything is art > > If you don't think >that "anything is art that anyone > > says is >art" then you can avoid my > > criticism by >simply saying you don't think that. V "anything >is art > > that anyone > > says is art" > > >"anything is art that > > > > anyone says is >art" > > > > > > and if you're defending it, >then you're either defending it > > because > > >you believe it, or you're > > defending it >because, what -- you just like to >argue? > > > > because NOT "anything is >art that anyone claims is art". You're > > >ARGUING with me. You're > > taking the OTHER >SIDE. > > The other side is that you DO believe >that "anything is > > art that anyone claims is >art" -- > > or else perhaps you just like to >argue, and will take any > > side I don't >take. > > > > Marcus > > > > Marcus > > > > > > >On 8 May 2008 at 16:22, amy king >wrote: > > > > > And you know this because >everything reported on Wikipedia is, of > > > >course, true? > > > > > > >Amy > > > > > > _______ > > > > > > > > > >http://www.amyking.org > > > > > > > > > > > > >----- Original Message ---- > > > From: Marcus >Bales > > > To: >POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > > > Sent: >Thursday, May 8, 2008 1:54:14 PM > > > Subject: >Re: POL: Prevent the "Artistic" Death of >Another > > > Innocent Animal > > > > > > >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guillermo_Vargas > > > > > > > And besides, the reports of starving >the dog to death are simply > > > >untrue. > > > > > > M > > > > > > On 8 May 2008 >at 10:34, amy king wrote: > > > > > > > In 2007, >the `artist?? Guillermo Vargas Haba > > > > THE >STORY: > > > > > > > > In 2007, the `artist?? >Guillermo Vargas Habacuc, took a dog >from > > > > the > > > > street, tied him to a >rope in an art gallery and began starving > > > >him > > > > to > > > > death. > > > > For >several days, the `artist?? and the visitors of >the > > > > exhibition > > > > watched, >emotionless, the shameful `masterpiece?? based >on the > > > > dog??s > > > > agony, until >eventually he died. > > > > > > > > Does THIS >sound like art to you? > > > > > > > > But this >is not all... the prestigious Visual Arts >Biennial of > > > > Central > > > > America >decided that the `installation?? WAS actually >art, so > > > > Guillermo > > > > Vargas Habacuc >has been invited to repeat his cruel action >for > > > the > > > > Biennial of >2008. > > > > > > > > Let??s STOP >HIM!!!!! Sign the petition: > > > > >http://www.petitiononline.com/ea6gk/petition.html > > > > > > > > > Here is another petition that >is 2 million signatures strong. > > > >Please > > > > feel free to sign it as >well: > > > > >http://www.petitiononline.com/13031953/petition.html > > > > > > > > > Please do it. It??s free of >charge, there is no need to > > > >register, > > > > and > > > > it will only take >1 minute to save the life of an innocent > > > > >creature. > > > > > > > > AND, for those of you >saying "This is all a hoax, etc," here >is > > > > a direct quote FROM THE `ARTIST?? >himself!: > > > > "I knew the dog died on the >following day from lack of food. > > > > During >the > > > > inauguration, I knew that the dog >was persecuted in the evening > > > > >between > > > > the houses of aluminum and >cardboard in a district of Managua. 5 > > > > >children who helped to capture the dog received >10 bonds of > > > > c??rdobas > > > > for their >assistance. The name of the dog was Natividad, >and I > > > let > > > > him > > > > die of >hunger in the sight of everyone, as if the death >of a > > > poor > > > > dog > > > > was a >shameless media show in which nobody does >anything but to > > > > applaud > > > > or to >watch disturbed. In the place that the dog was >exposed > > > remain > > > > a > > > > metal >cable and a cord. The dog was extremely ill and >did not > > > want > > > > to > > > > eat, so in >natural surroundings it would have died anyway; >thus > > > > they > > > > are all poor stray >dogs: sooner or later they die or are > > > > >killed." > > > > > > > > ~~~~ > > > > > > > > To >be fair (with lots of comments from Costa >Ricans): > > > > > > > > In his defence, the >artist has claimed that what he was > > > >attempting > > > > to prove was that those who >saw the suffering of the dog just > > > >walked > > > > on > > > > by and that if it had >been left on the street to die, no-one > > > >would > > > > have > > > > even known of its >existence. > > > > > > > > It has also been >reported that the dog did not die but >escaped, > > > > and > > > > that it had been >fed by Vargas and was only tied up during >the > > > > gallery > > > > opening times. It >has not been possible to confirm >this. > > > > > > > > The Managua exhibition >attracted worldwide attention and many > > > > >people > > > > believe it to have been an act of >cruelty rather than art. A > > > > >petition > > > > has been started in an attempt >to prevent Habacuc??s involvement > > > >in > > > > the > > > > 2008 Biennial and from >repeating the spectacle. > > > > > > > > If you >would like to sign the petition, visit: > > > > >http://www.petitiononline.com/ea6gk/petition.html > > > > > -from Artist Guillermo Vargas - >Habacuc > > > > >_______ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >http://www.amyking.org > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >____________________________________________________________________ > > > > > ________________ > > > > Be a better >friend, newshound, and > > > > know-it-all with >Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. > > > > >http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > No virus >found in this incoming message. > > > > Checked >by AVG. > > > > Version: 7.5.524 / Virus >Database: 269.23.10/1421 - Release > > > >Date: > > > > 5/7/2008 5:23 >PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >____________________________________________________________________ > > > > ________________ > > > Be a better >friend, newshound, and > > > know-it-all with >Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. > > > >http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > No virus found in >this incoming message. > > > Checked by >AVG. > > > Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: >269.23.10/1421 - Release Date: > > > 5/7/2008 >5:23 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >_________________________________________________________________________ > > ___________ > > Be a better friend, >newshound, and > > know-it-all with Yahoo! >Mobile. Try it now. > > >http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ > > > > > > > > > > >____________________________________________________________________________________ > > Be a better friend, newshound, and > >know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. > >http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ > > >____________________________________________________________________________________ >Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all >with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it >now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080511/e5c76156/attachment.html From anny.ballardini at tin.it Sun May 11 17:03:38 2008 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:38 2009 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_=5BNew-Poetry=5D_Re:_POL:_Preven?= =?utf-8?Q?t_the_=E2=80=9CArtistic=E2=80=9DDeath__of_Anothe?= =?utf-8?Q?r_Innocent_Animal?= In-Reply-To: <993960.96255.qm@web83304.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: <993960.96255.qm@web83304.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I haven't eaten meat for about 15-20 years now, nor fish, lately not even eggs. I do eat cheese. I am not a vegan, because I do not have time to cook and my life gives me time enough for a sandwich and cheese is a good nourishment and helps me get through. Mine was a choice. I realized that meat were animals when I first arrived in Italy from New York. I was ten. Those little rabbits were what we ate. I did not want to believe it, as I did not want to believe so many things. They forced me to eat, up to when I could do what I wanted. I anyhow wear leather shoes, woolen sweaters, and who says that plants do not have a soul? I think we should talk about this more, and keep more in mind what kind of disasters we, the humans, have succeeded in doing to this earth. ----- Original Message ----- From: amy king To: UB Poetics discussion group ; NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views Sent: Sunday, May 11, 2008 10:21 PM Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: POL: Prevent the ?Artistic?Death of Another Innocent Animal Mark, You're right -- the treatment of animals and for what purposes is not so black and white. I too never assumed so. In fact, I've struggled with the issue on a personal level, often hypocritically, for years. I eat seafood as though those living beings don't have feelings. I've been sick as of late and have turned to chicken soup, something I haven't eaten since 1990. I buy kosher and organic whenever possible. I cross my fingers and hope that promise that the animals were given food and treated humanely is true. I don't condemn people who eat animals or wear their by-products; I'd walk around angry all the time, especially at myself. Eliminating the products of animals from our lives seems next to impossible. But when folks get bogged down or distracted by an "It's art" claim when it comes to issues of accountability (usually to shirk accountability), most especially by people such as artists who are making a public statement using animals, the territory gets dangerous. These "artists" try to set the terms and evade the ethical questions, as Vargas has done. He treated the dog in terms he won't acknowledge for "the greater good" of other starving dogs. Great. He brought attention to those dogs? There was no other way than to seemingly abuse one of them? Somehow I don't imagine that all of the other citizens of Costa Rica sit around idly ignoring what I'm sure is dubbed the starving dog problem. Certainly there are organizations he could produce a campaign for. He could speak out, contribute time, use his public persona to recruit attention and volunteers, any number of other efforts I can't imagine at the moment. Instead, the outrage he produced has instead focused on his dubious treatment of one dog, rightfully so, instead of the cause he claims to have exhibited a starving dog for. How effective was his "piece" in its goal? Could he have been more effective? Those who consider the ethical before the supposed artistic "gains" are dismissed with a variety of reasons, mostly ones that implicate they are not sophisticated enough to understand the artist's aesthetics. We are then supposed to feel less-then-intellectual and quiet down in embarrassment. Some of these "aesthetics" have managed to erase the ethical and lead to thinking like eugenics (Yeats, Eliot) and even the advancement of the Holocaust. Wasn't Hitler, after all, trying to make things better? Some have called him an artist. Didn't he sell that vision? The art produced under his regime, especially that of Riefenstahl's and her ground-breaking aesthetics, cost many lives and much torture. Now without the shock value, where would Vargas be? Would he be a decent artist? Would he be noticed? Aren't art and aesthetics about much more than finding the next shock value boundary? On another note and for those folks who are interested in the treatment of animals, most especially ourselves, I just started reading what already seems like a brilliant new book by Barbara Kingsolver, ANIMAL, VEGETABLE, MINERAL: http://www.kingsolver.com/bookshelf/miracle.asp And a review: -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080511/e916dc24/attachment.html From JforJames at aol.com Sun May 11 21:47:48 2008 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames@aol.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:38 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Wendell Berry featured in new film Message-ID: _http://theunforeseenfilm.com/blog/about/_ (http://theunforeseenfilm.com/blog/about/) Featuring interviews with Robert Redford, Willie Nelson, the iconic Texas Governor Ann Richards, environmentalist Wendell Berry and many others, THE UNFORESEEN is a powerful meditation on the American dream ? on the destruction of the natural world as it falls victim to the cannibalizing forces of unchecked development. It is an intricate tale of personal hopes, victories and failures; and of debates over land, water and the public good. **************Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family favorites at AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/dinner-tonight?NCID=aolfod00030000000001) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080511/f192027e/attachment.html From anny.ballardini at tin.it Mon May 12 05:40:19 2008 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:38 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] talking of spam Message-ID: <57442214BECA49A4A1F6A95016406731@AnnyPC> Some days ago someone on this list, talking of marbles, mentioned to check on ebay and see the prices, which I did. I have been receiving messages since then sent by Ebay, and in this moment, by someone who wants to send me money because they want to buy "the very new Sony," what is not to be known. I was wondering, is it enough to click on a site like Ebay to have your email address recorded? Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080512/c67f305b/attachment.html From asurkont at localnet.com Mon May 12 06:18:47 2008 From: asurkont at localnet.com (Amanda Surkont) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:38 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] talking of spam In-Reply-To: <57442214BECA49A4A1F6A95016406731@AnnyPC> References: <57442214BECA49A4A1F6A95016406731@AnnyPC> Message-ID: Don't click on anything that comes via the mail box as an email message from ebay unless you are very experienced with ebay. Someone is sending you a spoof email; they normally just select random ebayers or addresses to send them to. Just delete them. Always sign on to ebay through the main site at ebay.com and not via links. That will keep you safe. best, manda On Mon, 12 May 2008 05:40:19 -0400, Anny Ballardini wrote: > Some days ago someone on this list, talking of marbles, mentioned to > check on ebay and see the prices, which I did. I have been receiving > messages since then sent by Ebay, and in this moment, by someone who > wants to send me money because they want to buy "the very new Sony," > what is not to be known. > I was wondering, is it enough to click on a site like Ebay to have your > email address recorded? > > Anny Ballardini > http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ > http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome > http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html > I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing > star! From caerspen at yahoo.com Mon May 12 10:17:50 2008 From: caerspen at yahoo.com (Casey OMalley) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:38 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] talking of spam In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <28071.76527.qm@web63405.mail.re1.yahoo.com> speaking of spam & scam... I've been reading along with everyonefor some months now - as part fo a senior project. I recently submitted an agent query to poetrybookpublishingagency.com. any thoughts? Is this just a scam - and what can I ask to assure myself that my writing will be safe without insulting the company? any ideas/suggestions/rants? Amanda Surkont wrote: Don't click on anything that comes via the mail box as an email message from ebay unless you are very experienced with ebay. Someone is sending you a spoof email; they normally just select random ebayers or addresses to send them to. Just delete them. Always sign on to ebay through the main site at ebay.com and not via links. That will keep you safe. best, manda On Mon, 12 May 2008 05:40:19 -0400, Anny Ballardini wrote: > Some days ago someone on this list, talking of marbles, mentioned to > check on ebay and see the prices, which I did. I have been receiving > messages since then sent by Ebay, and in this moment, by someone who > wants to send me money because they want to buy "the very new Sony," > what is not to be known. > I was wondering, is it enough to click on a site like Ebay to have your > email address recorded? > > Anny Ballardini > http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ > http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome > http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html > I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing > star! _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080512/cad03dfb/attachment.html From duemer at gmail.com Mon May 12 10:32:19 2008 From: duemer at gmail.com (Joseph Duemer) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:38 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] talking of spam In-Reply-To: <28071.76527.qm@web63405.mail.re1.yahoo.com> References: <28071.76527.qm@web63405.mail.re1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Casy, real agents don't handle poetry much & especially not from those without an established reputation. Sounds like a scam to me. Best bet is to querry publishers directly -- look to see who is publishing the poets you like to read, whether in book or journal form, then look them up. Most publishers have their submission guidelines on the web these days. There are legitimate competitions, even some with entry fees*, but there are also many outfits designed just to take the money of beginning poets. *Some on this list as elsewhere will dispute this statement, seeing any entry fee as a scam, but many small presses can only publish poetry because they charge such fees. (There is certainly a chicken / egg problem here, but it's not one anybody has figured out how to solve as yet.) Joseph Duemer On Mon, May 12, 2008 at 10:17 AM, Casey OMalley wrote: > speaking of spam & scam... > > I've been reading along with everyonefor some months now - as part fo a > senior project. I recently submitted an agent query to > poetrybookpublishingagency.com. any thoughts? Is this just a scam - and > what can I ask to assure myself that my writing will be safe without > insulting the company? any ideas/suggestions/rants? > > *Amanda Surkont * wrote: > > Don't click on anything that comes via the mail box as an > email message from ebay unless you are very experienced with > ebay. > > Someone is sending you a spoof email; they normally just select > random ebayers or addresses to send them to. Just delete them. > Always sign on to ebay through the main site at ebay.com and not > via links. That will keep you safe. > > best, manda > > > On Mon, 12 May 2008 05:40:19 -0400, Anny Ballardini > wrote: > > > Some days ago someone on this list, talking of marbles, mentioned to > > check on ebay and see the prices, which I did. I have been receiving > > messages since then sent by Ebay, and in this moment, by someone who > > wants to send me money because they want to buy "the very new Sony," > > what is not to be known. > > I was wondering, is it enough to click on a site like Ebay to have your > > email address recorded? > > > > Anny Ballardini > > http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ > > http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome > > http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html > > I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing > > star! > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > ------------------------------ > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it > now. > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Joseph Duemer Professor of Humanities Clarkson University Weblog: sharpsand.net -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080512/89d69491/attachment.html From Opus40-01 at opus40.org Mon May 12 10:37:14 2008 From: Opus40-01 at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:38 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] talking of spam In-Reply-To: <28071.76527.qm@web63405.mail.re1.yahoo.com> References: <28071.76527.qm@web63405.mail.re1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4828561A.5020301@opus40.org> I cannot imagine it's not a scam. Best-selling poets like Oliver, Pinsky and Hall may have agents; significant poets like C. D. Wright, Aram Saroyan or Gregory Corso are not likely to have agents at all. There's no agency out there looking to make a success for itself by finding publishers for new, unknown poets, although there may be people looking to make a success themselves by tsking money from new, unknown poets. Good luck getting published, Casey, but the old, not much fun way of sending it all out yourself and getting pummeled by all those rejections is the only way. Casey OMalley wrote: > speaking of spam & scam... > > I've been reading along with everyonefor some months now - as part fo > a senior project. I recently submitted an agent query to > poetrybookpublishingagency.com. any thoughts? Is this just a scam - > and what can I ask to assure myself that my writing will be safe > without insulting the company? any ideas/suggestions/rants? > > */Amanda Surkont /* wrote: > > Don't click on anything that comes via the mail box as an > email message from ebay unless you are very experienced with > ebay. > > Someone is sending you a spoof email; they normally just select > random ebayers or addresses to send them to. Just delete them. > Always sign on to ebay through the main site at ebay.com and not > via links. That will keep you safe. > > best, manda > > > On Mon, 12 May 2008 05:40:19 -0400, Anny Ballardini > wrote: > > > Some days ago someone on this list, talking of marbles, > mentioned to > > check on ebay and see the prices, which I did. I have been > receiving > > messages since then sent by Ebay, and in this moment, by someone > who > > wants to send me money because they want to buy "the very new > Sony," > > what is not to be known. > > I was wondering, is it enough to click on a site like Ebay to > have your > > email address recorded? > > > > Anny Ballardini > > http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ > > http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome > > http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html > > I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a > dancing > > star! > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try > it now. > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ The moral is this: in American verse, The better you are, the pay is worse. --Corey Ford From alexdickow9 at yahoo.com Mon May 12 10:47:11 2008 From: alexdickow9 at yahoo.com (Alexander Dickow) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:38 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] shellfish In-Reply-To: <200805121250.m4CCoYLr019384@wiz.cath.vt.edu> Message-ID: <46239.76550.qm@web35501.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Amy wrote: "I eat seafood as though those living beings don't have feelings." Heh heh! "I don't believe it's selfish / To eat defenseless shellfish. (No chowder for you! Clams have feelings too!)" -- nofx. Har. Amicalement, Alex www.alexdickow.net/blog/ les mots! ah quel d?sert ? la fin merveilleux. -- Henri Droguet From AlMaginnes at aol.com Mon May 12 10:50:53 2008 From: AlMaginnes at aol.com (AlMaginnes@aol.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:38 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] talking of spam Message-ID: A lot of more prominent poets have agents who arrange speaking engagements and readings for them, but I doubt if most of those even have literary agents. **************Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family favorites at AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/dinner-tonight?NCID=aolfod00030000000001) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080512/00d8c78c/attachment.html From anny.ballardini at tin.it Mon May 12 12:04:41 2008 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:38 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fw: free idea factory Message-ID: <3C8BF424D63B4FC6A9EA4573AF73D2BC@AnnyPC> Sent: Monday, May 12, 2008 5:29 PM Subject: free idea factory > I'm an idea factory. I have more ideas for things than time to do > those things. I mean this in absolute terms--I don't have enough time > left on this earth, even if I live to be 200, to realize all of the > ideas my brain keeps churning out. I personally know a few other > people that I consider to be idea factories, as well. That makes for a > superabundance of unrealized ideas. > > I know, also, from teaching workshops in creativity, and from talking > with people in the arts community in general, that there are a lot of > idea factories out there that I don't know about, and, that there are > also a lot of folks out there with energy and desire who just need a > prompt, a poke, a prod, or just the right idea to come their way. > > In the interest of bringing these two groups of people together > (people with too many ideas and not enough time, and, people with too > much time and not enough ideas), I've built and launched > http://freeideafactory.com/ with the help of David Hage and Jennifer > Hill-Kaucher. > > Be sure to read the "About Free Idea Factory" for a summary of the > philosophy that underlies it all. > > If you would like to be an employee of the idea factory, please let me > know, we'd love to have your ideas. If you just want to visit once in > a while and check out the ideas, that's fine too. Take this as > invitation or announcement, as best suits your desires. > > We're just getting started with it, so it's still pretty bare bones > right now, content-wise, but all the functionality is there to start > adding other folks to the production line, and we'd like to invite you > to participate if you're interested. > > The main points to consider are: > > 1) All the ideas are being given away for free, so don't put anything > here you think would in any way compromise your ability to realize the > project on your own if you have any desire to realize the project on > your own. We're only politely asking for a credit if an idea gets > used, we're not even utilizing a Creative Commons license or anything > like that. Just putting them out there into the world. > > 2) WordPress will allow all sorts of file formats to be uploaded, so > don't think you're limited to text. Images, pdfs, etc are all possible > to upload, so if you've got ideas in a sketch format and want to > upload them as-is without textual embellishment, that's great too. > > 3) You can do whatever you like with Tags, but, take a bit of care > with the Categories. Tags help index the content for search engines, > Technorati, and the like. Categories organize things ON the site, so > effort should be made by everyone to keep them logical, non-redundant, > and as few as necessary. Definitely create a "by Your Name Here" > category, though, as that's how a "sort by author" is accomplished. > > 4) It's truly wide-open what the ideas constitute. Art, one act play > scenarios, band names, website, research projects, consumer products, > anything at all. > > If you'd like me to set you up as a contributor to the blog, let me > know and I'll take care of it. Let me know a preferred username, > password, and URL to link to under the "Employees" section. Ideally, > we're looking for people with LOTS of extra ideas to share, but are > also interested in those willing to at least make a commitment to make > regular contributions--even if "regular" only means "a few per year". > > Regards, > Dan > > -- > Paper Kite Press & Studio > 443 Main Street > Kingston, PA 18704 > USA > http://www.wordpainting.com/ > -- > Dan Waber's digital doings > http://www.logolalia.com/ > -- > Echolalia, from FootHills Publishing > http://www.foothillspublishing.com/2008/id44.htm > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG. > Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.16/1427 - Release Date: > 5/11/2008 1:08 PM > > From Opus40-01 at opus40.org Mon May 12 13:28:29 2008 From: Opus40-01 at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:38 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Now batting for the Fugitives...number Seven...Bill Empson! Message-ID: <48287E3D.6040509@opus40.org> There's a wonderful photo somewhere of Empson playing softball. Can anyone refresh my memory of where I saw it, or direct me to it? -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ The moral is this: in American verse, The better you are, the pay is worse. --Corey Ford From Opus40-01 at opus40.org Mon May 12 13:36:40 2008 From: Opus40-01 at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:38 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Now batting for the Fugitives...number Seven...Bill Empson! In-Reply-To: <48287E3D.6040509@opus40.org> References: <48287E3D.6040509@opus40.org> Message-ID: <48288028.5010203@opus40.org> Reply to myself -- still haven't found the picture, but here's a wonderful reminiscence of Empson's softball prowess. But our most active competition was in softball. We formed two teams, the Explorations (after the title of one of L.C. Knight's books of critical essays) and the Ambiguities (after the title of William Empson's most famous work, /Seven Types of Ambiguity/). The varieties of competence among the participants ensured that the two teams were evenly, that is to say, unevenly, matched. Not all of the intellectual students were athletes, nor were all of the faculty. The most bizarre of the players was Empson, who always participated with a faded ivory cigarette holder (without cigarette) in his lips, even when batting. He always played outfield, and when a ball headed his way, he would open his arms very wide, then slap his hands together when the ball got close. I don't know whether he ever caught one. http://bulletin.kenyon.edu/x2528.xml And how about that Kenyon English faculty, c. 1950? TheOldMole wrote: > There's a wonderful photo somewhere of Empson playing softball. Can > anyone refresh my memory of where I saw it, or direct me to it? > -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ The moral is this: in American verse, The better you are, the pay is worse. --Corey Ford From skip at louisiana.edu Mon May 12 14:59:32 2008 From: skip at louisiana.edu (Skip Fox) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:39 2009 Subject: =?us-ascii?Q?RE:_=5BNew-Poetry=5D_Re:_POL:_Prevent_the_=22Artistic=22Deat?= =?us-ascii?Q?h__of_Another_Innocent_Animal?= In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <006001c8b462$5647cd40$3b874682@win.louisiana.edu> I have so many friends who are "true animal lovers" (and they give time an energy to Animal Rescue, fostering pets, etc.) who laugh at the idea of becoming vegetarian. Many of these same people are very concerned about the environment and significantly try to leave a small carbon footprint. I'm not necessarily an animal lover (not of their order surely) and I do have leather in my life, but I would never consider eating meat. And, I'm told that by not eating meat I require significantly less of the earth's resources and do much less harm to the ozone layer. Ito me it's rather simple. I haven't eaten meat for almost 20 years. -----Original Message----- From: new-poetry-bounces@wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto:new-poetry-bounces@wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Anny Ballardini Sent: Sunday, May 11, 2008 4:04 PM To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Re: POL: Prevent the "Artistic"Death of Another Innocent Animal I haven't eaten meat for about 15-20 years now, nor fish, lately not even eggs. I do eat cheese. I am not a vegan, because I do not have time to cook and my life gives me time enough for a sandwich and cheese is a good nourishment and helps me get through. Mine was a choice. I realized that meat were animals when I first arrived in Italy from New York. I was ten. Those little rabbits were what we ate. I did not want to believe it, as I did not want to believe so many things. They forced me to eat, up to when I could do what I wanted. I anyhow wear leather shoes, woolen sweaters, and who says that plants do not have a soul? I think we should talk about this more, and keep more in mind what kind of disasters we, the humans, have succeeded in doing to this earth. ----- Original Message ----- From: amy king To: UB Poetics discussion group ; NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views Sent: Sunday, May 11, 2008 10:21 PM Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: POL: Prevent the "Artistic"Death of Another Innocent Animal Mark, You're right -- the treatment of animals and for what purposes is not so black and white. I too never assumed so. In fact, I've struggled with the issue on a personal level, often hypocritically, for years. I eat seafood as though those living beings don't have feelings. I've been sick as of late and have turned to chicken soup, something I haven't eaten since 1990. I buy kosher and organic whenever possible. I cross my fingers and hope that promise that the animals were given food and treated humanely is true. I don't condemn people who eat animals or wear their by-products; I'd walk around angry all the time, especially at myself. Eliminating the products of animals from our lives seems next to impossible. But when folks get bogged down or distracted by an "It's art" claim when it comes to issues of accountability (usually to shirk accountability), most especially by people such as artists who are making a public statement using animals, the territory gets dangerous. These "artists" try to set the terms and evade the ethical questions, as Vargas has done. He treated the dog in terms he won't acknowledge for "the greater good" of other starving dogs. Great. He brought attention to those dogs? There was no other way than to seemingly abuse one of them? Somehow I don't imagine that all of the other citizens of Costa Rica sit around idly ignoring what I'm sure is dubbed the starving dog problem. Certainly there are organizations he could produce a campaign for. He could speak out, contribute time, use his public persona to recruit attention and volunteers, any number of other efforts I can't imagine at the moment. Instead, the outrage he produced has instead focused on his dubious treatment of one dog, rightfully so, instead of the cause he claims to have exhibited a starving dog for. How effective was his "piece" in its goal? Could he have been more effective? Those who consider the ethical before the supposed artistic "gains" are dismissed with a variety of reasons, mostly ones that implicate they are not sophisticated enough to understand the artist's aesthetics. We are then supposed to feel less-then-intellectual and quiet down in embarrassment. Some of these "aesthetics" have managed to erase the ethical and lead to thinking like eugenics (Yeats, Eliot) and even the advancement of the Holocaust. Wasn't Hitler, after all, trying to make things better? Some have called him an artist. Didn't he sell that vision? The art produced under his regime, especially that of Riefenstahl's and her ground-breaking aesthetics, cost many lives and much torture. Now without the shock value, where would Vargas be? Would he be a decent artist? Would he be noticed? Aren't art and aesthetics about much more than finding the next shock value boundary? On another note and for those folks who are interested in the treatment of animals, most especially ourselves, I just started reading what already seems like a brilliant new book by Barbara Kingsolver, ANIMAL, VEGETABLE, MINERAL: http://www.kingsolver.com/bookshelf/miracle.asp And a review: -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080512/a52a63ba/attachment.html From anny.ballardini at tin.it Mon May 12 18:49:30 2008 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:39 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fw: [list] Marie Ponsot & Kevin O'Sullivan: June 6, 2008 Message-ID: Friday, June 6th, 2008 7:30 - 9:00 MARIE PONSOT, Award-winning Poet and Mentor to Generations with KEVIN O'SULLIVAN, Dactyl Foundation's Emerging Poet of the Year Space is limited: rsvp@dactyl.org Dactyl Foundation 64 Grand Street (Wooster/W. Bdwy) NY, NY 10013 212-219-2344 www.dactyl.org MARIE PONSOT, a native New Yorker, was born in 1921. She has published numerous works, including Springing (Alfred A. Knopf, 2002); The Bird Catcher (1998), which won the National Book Critics Circle Award and was a finalist for the 1999 Lenore Marshall Poetry Prize; The Green Dark (1988); Admit Impediment (1981); and True Minds (1957). When asked why poetry matters, Ponsot replied: "There's a primitive need for language that works as an instrument of discovery and relief, that can make rich the cold places of our inner worlds with the memorable tunes and dreams poems hold for us." Among her awards are a creative writing grant from the National Endowment for the Arts, the Frost medal, and the Shaughnessy Medal of the Modern Language Association. In addition to translating many books from the French, Marie Ponsot has taught writing at Queens College, Beijing United University, the Poetry Center of the YMHA, Columbia University, and New York University. She currently teaches at The New School University in New York City. KEVIN O'SULLIVAN, Dactyl Foundation's Emerging Poet of the Year 2008, has worked as a writer, teacher, entrepreneur, actuary, cryptographer, salesman, sailor, calligrapher, and draftsman; and along the way, completed a Masters in English and subsequent work toward the PhD at CUNY. As a graduate fellow, he met Marie Ponsot when they were both teaching at Queens College. No longer "distracted from poetry by earning a living," he has just completed Marie Ponsot's Poetry Thesis Workshop at the 92nd Y. He seeks out the strengths of contemporary poets, an example being Marie's "felicity of expression as a function of ferocity of quest." Other examples include "the lexical exuberance of Richard Kenney and Saskia Hamilton; Byzantine yet matrix-perfect syntax of Jorrie Graham (even the anomalies enchant); revelations of relationship in Stephen Dunn and Marie Howe; the pop-right-out ordinary speech that dazzles in an Ashbery poem; the loaded, omen-laden terseness of both Kay Ryan and Charles Simic, and idea-round-ups in an Anne Carson, Paul Muldoon or Auggie Kleinzahler poem." If you no longer wish to receive announcements from Dactyl Foundation, hit reply with "opt out" in the subject line. -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.16/1427 - Release Date: 5/11/2008 1:08 PM From ciccariello at gmail.com Mon May 12 20:52:37 2008 From: ciccariello at gmail.com (Peter Ciccariello) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:39 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Torture for words Message-ID: <8f3fdbad0805121752w10411cfwb1b8b016f3b37973@mail.gmail.com> Torture for words -Peter Ciccariello http://invisiblenotes.blogspot.com/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080512/7f1fc697/attachment.html From Opus40-01 at opus40.org Mon May 12 23:56:12 2008 From: Opus40-01 at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:39 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Torture for words In-Reply-To: <8f3fdbad0805121752w10411cfwb1b8b016f3b37973@mail.gmail.com> References: <8f3fdbad0805121752w10411cfwb1b8b016f3b37973@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4829115C.6020103@opus40.org> Disturbing. Peter Ciccariello wrote: > Torture for words > > > > > -Peter Ciccariello > http://invisiblenotes.blogspot.com/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ The moral is this: in American verse, The better you are, the pay is worse. --Corey Ford From anny.ballardini at tin.it Tue May 13 04:45:59 2008 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:39 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] from the New Yorker Message-ID: <1A2A094515DC429F8A72B91330DFE8AC@AnnyPC> Skipped content of type multipart/alternative-------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 080519_cartoon_1_a13302_p465.gif Type: image/gif Size: 106160 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080513/877a435b/080519_cartoon_1_a13302_p465.gif From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Tue May 13 07:50:52 2008 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:39 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] from the New Yorker In-Reply-To: <1A2A094515DC429F8A72B91330DFE8AC@AnnyPC> References: <1A2A094515DC429F8A72B91330DFE8AC@AnnyPC> Message-ID: <4829809C.4060304@nut-n-but.net> Ah, yes, Anny, that gave me a good laugh. So accurate! The one important feature left out is a girl laughing uproariously at the humor of the book holding up the fingers behind the teacher. --New-Poetry Substitute From anny.ballardini at tin.it Tue May 13 07:24:08 2008 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:39 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] from the New Yorker In-Reply-To: <4829809C.4060304@nut-n-but.net> References: <1A2A094515DC429F8A72B91330DFE8AC@AnnyPC> <4829809C.4060304@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: :-) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Grumman" To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views" Sent: Tuesday, May 13, 2008 1:50 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] from the New Yorker > Ah, yes, Anny, that gave me a good laugh. So accurate! The one important > feature left out is a girl laughing uproariously at the humor of the book > holding up the fingers behind the teacher. > > --New-Poetry Substitute From amyhappens at yahoo.com Tue May 13 11:49:18 2008 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:39 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] POL & ECO -- Kingsolver's ANIMAL, VEGETABLE, MIRACLE In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.1.20080510220302.01a97f50@jimandellen.org> Message-ID: <599077.92727.qm@web83305.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Apologies if you already found this book last year -- Currently reading Barbara Kingsolver?s recently-new book, ANIMAL, VEGETABLE, MIRACLE. A series of quick excerpts from the first chapter to whet your appetite and inspire: A profit-driven food industry has exploded and nutritionally bankrupted our caloric supply, and we long for a Food Leviticus to save us from the sinful roil of cheap fats and carbs. A food culture is not something that gets sold to people. It arises out of a place, a soil, a climate, a history, a temperament, a collective sense of belonging Our most celebrated models of beauty are starved people. People hold to their food customs because of the positives: comfort, nourishment, heavenly aromas. A sturdy food tradition even calls to outsiders; plenty of red-blooded Americans will happily eat Italian, French, Thai, Chinese, you name it. We?re a nation with an eating disorder, and we know it. The multiple maladies caused by bad eating are taking a dire toll on our health?most tragically for our kids, who are predicted to be this country?s first generation to have a shorter life expectancy than their parents. That alone is a stunning enough fact to give us pause. So is a government policy that advises us to eat more fruits and vegetables, while doling out subsidies not to fruit and vegetable farmers, but to commodity crops destined to become soda pop and cheap burgers. At its heart, a genuine food culture is an affinity between people and the land that feeds them. This book tells the story of what we learned, or didn?t; what we ate, or couldn?t; and how our family was changed by one year of deliberately eating food produced in the same place where we worked, loved our neighbors, drank the water, and breathed the air. It?s not at all necessary to live on a food-producing farm to participate in this culture. Doing the right thing, in this case, is not about abstinence-only, throwing out bread, tightening your belt, wearing a fake leather belt, or dragging around feeling righteous and gloomy. Food is the rare moral arena in which the ethical choice is generally the one more likely to make you groan with pleasure. Why resist that? ?from ANIMAL, VEGETABLE, MIRACLE by Barbara Kingsolver [http://www.kingsolver.com/bookshelf/miracle.asp] Review of the book: http://blogcritics.org/archives/2007/05/24/173529.php -- Recent http://www.tarpaulinsky.com/Reviews/kiss-me.html http://cutbankpoetry.blogspot.com/2008/04/im-man-who-loves-you-by-amy-king.html Alias http://www.amyking.or _______ http://www.amyking.org http://demonoide.org http://redherring.us http://poetryexperiment.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080513/23037f0a/attachment.html From anny.ballardini at tin.it Tue May 13 15:09:21 2008 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:39 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] sent Message-ID: by Barry Schwabsky to the Buffalo: 'd like to point out the current issue of the London Review of Books contains--along with a wild and witty poem by our own Wystan Curnow--an unusually good essay on Sharkespeare's sonnets, by Barbara Everett (whose writing I had not previously been aware of). Unfortunately it is only available online to subscribers but it is worth seeking out the print edition. "These poems are both anonymous and individual.They are both easy and difficult.... The Sonnets seek to move through and beyond the whole utilitarianism of the Tudor ethos, the concept of goodness as use, as profit, which unites the Elizabethan farmyard to the guild and the court: to find an innate metaphysic in human love itself...Such stability as these poems achieve depends on a voice, and the partial animation of an always peripheral fiction: more precisely, on the depth of interior feeling with which that fiction of relationship takes on life, is proved true. But that 'truth' is as hard to analyse as it is original. Led to read the story as autobiography, we search in vain for dependable data. Unlike other sonneteers, Shakespeare nowhere names his beloved, except just conceivably in the early and punning 145, which may name Hathaway ('"I hate" from hate away she threw'). Comparably, the poet evokes the passing of time brilliantly, and yet gives not a single hint of a date in the whole sequence....The sonnets are beginning to be intense love poems; by 'love' they mean the tired horse trudging on and groaning at the goad, actors forgetting their lines, death-bells ringing in the churches of the City, stone lions and sea waves, poisons and medicines, ruined chapels and winter trees, music being played by a loved and hated woman, obsession and infidelity and tenderness and time always passing. And because the medium and only centre is the experiencing self, they relate love also to the hand writing and the eye reading." -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080513/c947cf8a/attachment.html From anny.ballardini at tin.it Tue May 13 16:11:23 2008 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:39 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Robert Rauschenberg Message-ID: "Robert Rauschenberg was born on Oct. 22, 1925, in Port Arthur, Tex., a small refinery town where 'it was very easy to grow up without ever seeing a painting,' he said. His grandfather, a doctor, had settled in Texas and married a full-blooded Cherokee. His father worked for a local utility company. The family lived so modestly that his mother used to make him shirts out of scraps of fabric. " "For his high school graduation present, Mr. Rauschenberg wanted a ready-made shirt, his first. A decade or so later he made history with his own assemblages of scraps and ready-mades: sculptures and music boxes made of packing crates, rocks and rope; and paintings like 'Yoicks' sewn from fabric strips." 'I usually work in a direction until I know how to do it, then I stop,' he said in an interview on Captiva in 2000. 'At the time that I am bored or understand - I use those words interchangeably - another appetite has formed. A lot of people try to think up ideas. I'm not one. I'd rather accept the irresistible possibilities of what I can't ignore.' He added, "Anything you do will be an abuse of somebody else's aesthetics. I think you're born an artist or not. I couldn't have learned it, and I hope I never do because knowing more only encourages your limitations." http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/14/arts/design/14rauschenberg.html?_r=1&hp=&adxnnl=1&oref=slogin&adxnnlx=1210709260-XyUdQMiow2ZD8/E9wCYolw -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080513/78c9579a/attachment.html From asurkont at localnet.com Wed May 14 06:07:24 2008 From: asurkont at localnet.com (Amanda Surkont) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:39 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] talking of spam In-Reply-To: <28071.76527.qm@web63405.mail.re1.yahoo.com> References: <28071.76527.qm@web63405.mail.re1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I would be cautious about this site and those involved with it. There Just google the phone number they publish on the website; there is discussion about them all over the internet. best, manda On Mon, 12 May 2008 10:17:50 -0400, Casey OMalley wrote: > speaking of spam & scam... > I've been reading along with everyonefor some months now - as part fo a > senior project. I recently submitted an agent query to > poetrybookpublishingagency.com. any thoughts? Is this just a scam - > and what can I ask to assure myself that my writing will be safe without > insulting the company? any ideas/suggestions/rants? > From amyhappens at yahoo.com Wed May 14 09:55:28 2008 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:39 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Resignation --and-- The Stain of Poetry: A Reading Series Message-ID: <184903.22743.qm@web83303.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Dear Poets and Friends, After two plus years as editor of MiPOesias, I have finally decided to concentrate on other projects, but not without noting that it has been a very fun gig -- thanks to the hard work of MiPO's publisher, Didi Menendez, I've been able to showcase lots of poets' work that I love and meet so many nice folks, both virtually and in "real life", many who are members of this very list. Thanks to all of you who sent such excellent work my way and allowed it to appear on MiPO! The reading series will carry on under a new name: The Stain of Poetry: A Reading Series [http://thestainofpoetry.wordpress.com/] We have a stellar line-up for Friday, May 30th @ 7 p.m. -- May 30th @ 7 p.m. - Stain Bar - Williamsburg, Brooklyn ** Stein, Marks, Edmiston, Klassnik, and Peterson ** Leigh Stein is the author of many chapbooks, including How to Mend a Broken Heart with Vengeance (Dancing Girl Press, June ?08). Other work has appeared, or is forthcoming, in Bat City Review, h-ngm-n, Diagram, No Tell Motel, and MiPOesias. Originally from Chicago and briefly in Albuquerque, she now lives in Brooklyn and works for a comic book publisher. Justin Marks? latest chapbook is [Summer insular] (Horse Less Press, 2007). His poems have recently appeared in Cannibal, Soft Targets, Tarpaulin Sky and the Bedside Guide to No Tell Motel ? Second Floor, and are forthcoming in Handsome, the New York Quarterly and Wildlife Poetry Magazine. He is the founder and Editor of Kitchen Press Chapbooks and lives in New York City. Will Edmiston?s poems have appeared in The Tiny, Mipo and Lungfull!. Most recently he did a book collaboration entitled ?Greetings & Salutations? with a Parsons Communication Design class. Tim Peterson is the author of SINCE I MOVED IN, which received the Gil Ott Award from Chax Press. Tim lives in Brooklyn, edits EOAGH: A Journal of the Arts, and curates a portion of the Segue Reading Series in New York. Photo by Stacy Szymaszek. Rauan (Ron) Klassnik was born in Johannesburg, South Africa. After moving to Dallas and then dropping out of college he traded sports and gaming cards, beanie babies, pogs and memorabilia. He now spends most of his time down in Mexico with his wife Edith where, besides writing, he plays around with the family birds and dogs. His poems have appeared in many print and on-line journals including The Mississippi Review, The North American Review, No Tell Motel, MiPoesias, Sentence, Handsome, Pilot Poetry, Sleepingfish and others. His debut book of poems, ?Holy Land? released April 1st from Black Ocean Press. stain 766 grand street brooklyn, ny 11211 (L train to Grand Street, 1 block west) 718/387-7840 www.stainbar.com I hope that you will join us! Cheers, Amy -- Recent http://www.tarpaulinsky.com/Reviews/kiss-me.html http://cutbankpoetry.blogspot.com/2008/04/im-man-who-loves-you-by-amy-king.html Alias http://www.amyking.org _______ http://www.amyking.org http://demonoide.org http://redherring.us http://poetryexperiment.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080514/3b51ee0d/attachment.html From editor at eratiopostmodernpoetry.com Wed May 14 11:08:49 2008 From: editor at eratiopostmodernpoetry.com (=?iso-8859-1?Q?e=B7ratio?=) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:39 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Two for Mathematical Poetry Message-ID: <60237.72.229.170.192.1210777729.squirrel@webmail1.web.com> Two for mathematical poetry brought to you by Gregory Vincent St. Thomasino -- Interviewed: Kaz Maslanka, mathematical poet and polyartist on his life, background, on being a genius and on mathematical poetry, polyaesthetics, and the mathematical poetic aesthetic: http://www.wordforword.info/vol13/maslanka.htm Essay: On Bob Grumman's Mathemaku and on Mathematical Poetry Generally: http://www.wordforword.info/vol13/gvst.htm Two for mathematical poetry brought to you by Gregory Vincent St. Thomasino From anny.ballardini at tin.it Wed May 14 14:33:23 2008 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:40 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Resignation --and-- The Stain of Poetry: A ReadingSeries In-Reply-To: <184903.22743.qm@web83303.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: <184903.22743.qm@web83303.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Dear Amy, thanks for having published me! And good luck with your new plans, take care, Anny ----- Original Message ----- From: amy king To: UB Poetics discussion group ; NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views ; Women's Poetry Listserve Sent: Wednesday, May 14, 2008 3:55 PM Subject: [New-Poetry] Resignation --and-- The Stain of Poetry: A ReadingSeries Dear Poets and Friends, After two plus years as editor of MiPOesias, I have finally decided to concentrate on other projects, but not without noting that it has been a very fun gig -- thanks to the hard work of MiPO's publisher, Didi Menendez, I've been able to showcase lots of poets' work that I love and meet so many nice folks, both virtually and in "real life", many who are members of this very list. Thanks to all of you who sent such excellent work my way and allowed it to appear on MiPO! The reading series will carry on under a new name: The Stain of Poetry: A Reading Series [http://thestainofpoetry.wordpress.com/] We have a stellar line-up for Friday, May 30th @ 7 p.m. -- May 30th @ 7 p.m. - Stain Bar - Williamsburg, Brooklyn ** Stein, Marks, Edmiston, Klassnik, and Peterson ** Leigh Stein is the author of many chapbooks, including How to Mend a Broken Heart with Vengeance (Dancing Girl Press, June '08). Other work has appeared, or is forthcoming, in Bat City Review, h-ngm-n, Diagram, No Tell Motel, and MiPOesias. Originally from Chicago and briefly in Albuquerque, she now lives in Brooklyn and works for a comic book publisher. Justin Marks' latest chapbook is [Summer insular] (Horse Less Press, 2007). His poems have recently appeared in Cannibal, Soft Targets, Tarpaulin Sky and the Bedside Guide to No Tell Motel - Second Floor, and are forthcoming in Handsome, the New York Quarterly and Wildlife Poetry Magazine. He is the founder and Editor of Kitchen Press Chapbooks and lives in New York City. Will Edmiston's poems have appeared in The Tiny, Mipo and Lungfull!. Most recently he did a book collaboration entitled "Greetings & Salutations" with a Parsons Communication Design class. Tim Peterson is the author of SINCE I MOVED IN, which received the Gil Ott Award from Chax Press. Tim lives in Brooklyn, edits EOAGH: A Journal of the Arts, and curates a portion of the Segue Reading Series in New York. Photo by Stacy Szymaszek. Rauan (Ron) Klassnik was born in Johannesburg, South Africa. After moving to Dallas and then dropping out of college he traded sports and gaming cards, beanie babies, pogs and memorabilia. He now spends most of his time down in Mexico with his wife Edith where, besides writing, he plays around with the family birds and dogs. His poems have appeared in many print and on-line journals including The Mississippi Review, The North American Review, No Tell Motel, MiPoesias, Sentence, Handsome, Pilot Poetry, Sleepingfish and others. His debut book of poems, "Holy Land" released April 1st from Black Ocean Press. stain 766 grand street brooklyn, ny 11211 (L train to Grand Street, 1 block west) 718/387-7840 www.stainbar.com I hope that you will join us! Cheers, Amy -- Recent http://www.tarpaulinsky.com/Reviews/kiss-me.html http://cutbankpoetry.blogspot.com/2008/04/im-man-who-loves-you-by-amy-king.html Alias http://www.amyking.org _______ http://www.amyking.org http://demonoide.org http://redherring.us http://poetryexperiment.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.16/1431 - Release Date: 5/13/2008 7:55 PM -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080514/3ebf07e9/attachment.html From jforjames at aol.com Wed May 14 21:21:32 2008 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames@aol.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:40 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] future of poetry magazines Message-ID: <8CA844124F8BA4A-14AC-22A5@FWM-M02.sysops.aol.com> http://blogs.guardian.co.uk/books/2008/05/the_future_of_poetry_magazines.html The future of poetry magazines Top publications are often seen as a cliquey insiders' club. But new ones are muscling in - and there's always the internet May 14, 2008 8:30 AM I've usually approached poetry magazines in much the same way as credit card companies choose to approach me. By the time you've mailed a hundred sets of six poems to a third of the 300 magazines in the UK, most of whom you've never read, you're fairly confident of having a couple published somewhere. After all, I have two visas and a mastercard. There are, of course, several problems with this approach. Not least that you're quite likely to annoy editors by sending them poetry they would never consider publishing. But I think one of the main reasons amateur poets take this approach is because they despair of getting into the top magazines - magazines that have "friends' piles", that have been around for years, that publish the same old people with their own established magazines. That do "quid pro quo". -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080514/4457d342/attachment.html From cervantes.james at gmail.com Wed May 14 21:57:21 2008 From: cervantes.james at gmail.com (James Cervantes) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:40 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] future of poetry magazines In-Reply-To: <8CA844124F8BA4A-14AC-22A5@FWM-M02.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CA844124F8BA4A-14AC-22A5@FWM-M02.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <648208b60805141857k6f0c2b18pf59542b94da667b0@mail.gmail.com> I guess this is news over there. Sad. Land of the literary forefront becomes the backaft. - Jim On Wed, May 14, 2008 at 8:21 PM, wrote: > > http://blogs.guardian.co.uk/books/2008/05/the_future_of_poetry_magazines.html > The future of poetry magazines > Top publications are often seen as a cliquey insiders' club. But new ones > are muscling in - and there's always the internet > May 14, 2008 8:30 AM > I've usually approached poetry magazines in much the same way as credit > card companies choose to approach me. By the time you've mailed a hundred > sets of six poems to a third of the 300 magazines in the UK, most of whom > you've never read, you're fairly confident of having a couple published > somewhere. After all, I have two visas and a mastercard. > > There are, of course, several problems with this approach. Not least that > you're quite likely to annoy editors by sending them poetry they would never > consider publishing. But I think one of the main reasons amateur poets take > this approach is because they despair of getting into the top magazines - > magazines that have "friends' piles", that have been around for years, that > publish the same old people with their own established magazines. That do > "quid pro quo". > > ------------------------------ > Plan your next roadtrip with MapQuest.com: > America's #1 Mapping Site. > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080514/2d2fc31f/attachment.html From amyhappens at yahoo.com Thu May 15 10:01:39 2008 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:40 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Resignation --and-- The Stain of Poetry: A ReadingSeries In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161217.98905.qm@web83302.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Thank you, Anny! Anny's page is here: http://www.mipoesias.com/2006/ballardini.html Anny Ballardini wrote: Dear Amy, thanks for having published me! And good luck with your new plans, take care, Anny ----- Original Message ----- From: amy king To: UB Poetics discussion group ; NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views ; Women's Poetry Listserve Sent: Wednesday, May 14, 2008 3:55 PM Subject: [New-Poetry] Resignation --and-- The Stain of Poetry: A ReadingSeries Dear Poets and Friends, After two plus years as editor of MiPOesias, I have finally decided to concentrate on other projects, but not without noting that it has been a very fun gig -- thanks to the hard work of MiPO's publisher, Didi Menendez, I've been able to showcase lots of poets' work that I love and meet so many nice folks, both virtually and in "real life", many who are members of this very list. Thanks to all of you who sent such excellent work my way and allowed it to appear on MiPO! The reading series will carry on under a new name: The Stain of Poetry: A Reading Series [http://thestainofpoetry.wordpress.com/] We have a stellar line-up for Friday, May 30th @ 7 p.m. -- May 30th @ 7 p.m. - Stain Bar - Williamsburg, Brooklyn ** Stein, Marks, Edmiston, Klassnik, and Peterson ** Leigh Stein is the author of many chapbooks, including How to Mend a Broken Heart with Vengeance (Dancing Girl Press, June ?08). Other work has appeared, or is forthcoming, in Bat City Review, h-ngm-n, Diagram, No Tell Motel, and MiPOesias. Originally from Chicago and briefly in Albuquerque, she now lives in Brooklyn and works for a comic book publisher. Justin Marks? latest chapbook is [Summer insular] (Horse Less Press, 2007). His poems have recently appeared in Cannibal, Soft Targets, Tarpaulin Sky and the Bedside Guide to No Tell Motel ? Second Floor, and are forthcoming in Handsome, the New York Quarterly and Wildlife Poetry Magazine. He is the founder and Editor of Kitchen Press Chapbooks and lives in New York City. Will Edmiston?s poems have appeared in The Tiny, Mipo and Lungfull!. Most recently he did a book collaboration entitled ?Greetings & Salutations? with a Parsons Communication Design class. Tim Peterson is the author of SINCE I MOVED IN, which received the Gil Ott Award from Chax Press. Tim lives in Brooklyn, edits EOAGH: A Journal of the Arts, and curates a portion of the Segue Reading Series in New York. Photo by Stacy Szymaszek. Rauan (Ron) Klassnik was born in Johannesburg, South Africa. After moving to Dallas and then dropping out of college he traded sports and gaming cards, beanie babies, pogs and memorabilia. He now spends most of his time down in Mexico with his wife Edith where, besides writing, he plays around with the family birds and dogs. His poems have appeared in many print and on-line journals including The Mississippi Review, The North American Review, No Tell Motel, MiPoesias, Sentence, Handsome, Pilot Poetry, Sleepingfish and others. His debut book of poems, ?Holy Land? released April 1st from Black Ocean Press. stain 766 grand street brooklyn, ny 11211 (L train to Grand Street, 1 block west) 718/387-7840 www.stainbar.com I hope that you will join us! Cheers, Amy -- Recent http://www.tarpaulinsky.com/Reviews/kiss-me.html http://cutbankpoetry.blogspot.com/2008/04/im-man-who-loves-you-by-amy-king.html Alias http://www.amyking.org _______ http://www.amyking.org http://demonoide.org http://redherring.us http://poetryexperiment.com --------------------------------- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry --------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.16/1431 - Release Date: 5/13/2008 7:55 PM _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______ Recent http://www.tarpaulinsky.com/Reviews/kiss-me.html http://cutbankpoetry.blogspot.com/2008/04/im-man-who-loves-you-by-amy-king.html Alias http://www.amyking.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080515/f4531fe2/attachment.html From anny.ballardini at tin.it Thu May 15 15:34:55 2008 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:40 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Resignation --and-- The Stain of Poetry: AReadingSeries In-Reply-To: <161217.98905.qm@web83302.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: <161217.98905.qm@web83302.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <27F767CC6AD746D3AFEB1FDCC35F2C7B@AnnyPC> This issue was guest edited by Tom Beckett, I also have one poem on an issue edited by Gabriel Gudding, but I was referring specifically to one that you edited, and I cannot find it any more.. sorry about that. ----- Original Message ----- From: amy king To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &,Views Sent: Thursday, May 15, 2008 4:01 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Resignation --and-- The Stain of Poetry: AReadingSeries Thank you, Anny! Anny's page is here: http://www.mipoesias.com/2006/ballardini.html Anny Ballardini wrote: -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080515/8b03c698/attachment.html From jforjames at aol.com Thu May 15 19:40:38 2008 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames@aol.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:40 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Q&A with Suzanne Roberts, Confessions Message-ID: <8CA84FC36D91BB0-DE4-2BB9@webmail-stg-d06.sysops.aol.com> http://www.newtimesslo.com/art/160/confessional-poetry-/ New Times In Shameless, many of the poems are about romantic relationships?mostly failed. It?s fairly revealing! Do you ever wonder if you?re opening yourself up too much? Roberts Of course Shameless is all about failed romantic relationships! In Charles Bukowski?s famous poem ?Now if you were teaching a creative writing class? he offers all kinds of advice to his would-be students, and repeats the line ?I would tell them to have an unhappy love affair? as the refrain, but most of us have already had many more failed relationships than successful ones. When love is happy, there isn?t too much to say about it. Not everyone can write ?How Do I Love Thee? Let me Count the Ways? and pull it off. The poet Galway Kinnell says something like this: In poetry, we tell everyone everything we would never tell anyone -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080515/c712200c/attachment.html From jforjames at aol.com Fri May 16 13:16:54 2008 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames@aol.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:40 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Battle of the Bards Message-ID: <8CA858FC6199266-23B4-C44@webmailbeta-m08.sysops.aol.com> http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1806582,00.html Milton and Shakespeare: Battle of the Bards Thursday, May. 15, 2008 By GARY TAYLOR? John Milton turns 400 this year, but of course the birthday doesn't matter unless Milton does. Three new scholarly biographies and an exhibit at the New York Public Library may comfort the faithful, but they won't convert anyone who hasn't already caught the Milton bug. Nigel Smith wants to engender a fandemic. In a new book, Is Milton Better Than Shakespeare?, he sets out to convince "as general a public as possible" that Milton is the "more salient and important" of these literary giants. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080516/93f399ab/attachment.html From amyhappens at yahoo.com Fri May 16 13:17:59 2008 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:40 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Tonight 's Candy In-Reply-To: <20080515143120.KFVO27093.hrndva-omta01.mail.rr.com@MDHeller.nyu.edu> Message-ID: <367288.24077.qm@web83313.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Friday May 16th, 7pm Pete's Candy Store 709 Lorimer St. (between Frost and Richardson) Williamsburg, Brooklyn Directions: Take the G to Metropolitan or the L to Lorimer. ~~~ Hosted by Sommer Browning Morgan Lucas Schuldt is the author of Verge (Parlor Press: Free Verse Editions, 2007) and Otherhow (Kitchen Press, 2007), a chapbook. He lives in Tucson where he edits the literary journal CUE. Amy King is the author of I?m the Man Who Loves You and Antidotes for an Alibi (Blazevox Books). She edits the Poetics List and moderates the Women?s Poetry Listserv. She is currently editing an anthology, The Urban Poetic, forthcoming from Factory School. Please visit http://amyking.org for more. Betsy Wheeler currently lives in Lewisburg, PA, where she holds the Stadler Fellowship at Bucknell University. Her poetry can be found in Ping Pong, The Hat, No Tell Motel, Painted Bride Quarterly, Can We Have Our Ball Back, and elsewhere. She is co-editor of Pilot and Pilot Books. Frank Montesonti's poetry has been published in Black Warrior Review, Poet Lore, AQR, Barrow Street, Spork, and Cream City Review, among other magazines ~~~ http://www.petescandystore.com/bigpoetry/index.html#may16 _______ Recent http://www.tarpaulinsky.com/Reviews/kiss-me.html http://cutbankpoetry.blogspot.com/2008/04/im-man-who-loves-you-by-amy-king.html Alias http://www.amyking.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080516/01e0509f/attachment.html From screwzbaran at gmail.com Fri May 16 14:22:20 2008 From: screwzbaran at gmail.com (Suzanne Baran) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:40 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] World's worst poet Message-ID: <2d5ffa0b0805161122y612a9191w402da7105fbf9aef@mail.gmail.com> http://real-us.news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20080516/ennew_afp/entertainmentbritainpoetryauction -- "Who is truly great? I hope you can develop the ability to discern true human greatness. A great person is someone who forges unity among human beings through sincere dialogue, armed with a solid philosophy, feet firmly planted on the ground. A great person is one who lives among the people and earns their unshakable trust. Fickle popularity and temporary fads are nothing but illusions." Daily Encouragement - Daisaku Ikeda -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080516/a26fb383/attachment.html From shin02143 at aol.com Fri May 16 15:30:39 2008 From: shin02143 at aol.com (shin02143@aol.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:40 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] World's worst poet In-Reply-To: <2d5ffa0b0805161122y612a9191w402da7105fbf9aef@mail.gmail.com> References: <2d5ffa0b0805161122y612a9191w402da7105fbf9aef@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <8CA85A27414E9F2-184-8EC@FWM-M29.sysops.aol.com> Of course be mindful that Daisaku Ikeda is the cult leader of Soka Gakkai, an extremist pseudo-buddhist Japanese organization. He is very gifted when it comes to pretty sounding words, but the millions in his organization revere him as a god-like buddha and he does everything to keep them from being disabused of this regard. -----Original Message----- From: Suzanne Baran Sent: Fri, 16 May 2008 2:22 pm Subject: [New-Poetry] World's worst poet http://real-us.news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20080516/ennew_afp/entertainmentbritainpoetryauction -- "Who is truly great? I hope you can develop the ability to discern true human greatness. A great person is someone who forges unity among human beings through sincere dialogue, armed with a solid philosophy, feet firmly planted on the ground. A great person is one who lives among the people and earns their unshakable trust. Fickle popularity and temporary fads are nothing but illusions." Daily Encouragement - Daisaku Ikeda _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080516/d77c3dc4/attachment.html From screwzbaran at gmail.com Fri May 16 15:36:50 2008 From: screwzbaran at gmail.com (Suzanne Baran) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:40 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] World's worst poet In-Reply-To: <8CA85A27414E9F2-184-8EC@FWM-M29.sysops.aol.com> References: <2d5ffa0b0805161122y612a9191w402da7105fbf9aef@mail.gmail.com> <8CA85A27414E9F2-184-8EC@FWM-M29.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <2d5ffa0b0805161236k59c2ea1bg30fbc13661a0b7db@mail.gmail.com> Quite a shame you feel this way. Not everyone in the SGI regards him that way, but it's a common perception. On Fri, May 16, 2008 at 12:30 PM, wrote: > Of course be mindful that Daisaku Ikeda is the cult leader of Soka > Gakkai, an extremist pseudo-buddhist Japanese organization. He is very > gifted when it comes to pretty sounding words, but the millions in his > organization revere him as a god-like buddha and he does everything to keep > them from being disabused of this regard. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Suzanne Baran > Sent: Fri, 16 May 2008 2:22 pm > Subject: [New-Poetry] World's worst poet > > > http://real-us.news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20080516/ennew_afp/entertainmentbritainpoetryauction > > -- > "Who is truly great? I hope you can develop the ability to discern true > human greatness. A great person is someone who forges unity among human > beings through sincere dialogue, armed with a solid philosophy, feet firmly > planted on the ground. A great person is one who lives among the people and > earns their unshakable trust. Fickle popularity and temporary fads are > nothing but illusions." > > Daily Encouragement - Daisaku Ikeda > > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > ------------------------------ > Plan your next roadtrip with MapQuest.com: > America's #1 Mapping Site. > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- "Who is truly great? I hope you can develop the ability to discern true human greatness. A great person is someone who forges unity among human beings through sincere dialogue, armed with a solid philosophy, feet firmly planted on the ground. A great person is one who lives among the people and earns their unshakable trust. Fickle popularity and temporary fads are nothing but illusions." Daily Encouragement - Daisaku Ikeda -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080516/a94f77da/attachment.html From oedipa at gmail.com Fri May 16 16:35:41 2008 From: oedipa at gmail.com (oedipa@gmail.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:40 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] World's worst poet In-Reply-To: <2d5ffa0b0805161236k59c2ea1bg30fbc13661a0b7db@mail.gmail.com> References: <2d5ffa0b0805161122y612a9191w402da7105fbf9aef@mail.gmail.com><8CA85A27414E9F2-184-8EC@FWM-M29.sysops.aol.com><2d5ffa0b0805161236k59c2ea1bg30fbc13661a0b7db@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <97670666-1210970120-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-2000370775-@bxe141.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> O Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T -----Original Message----- From: "Suzanne Baran" Date: Fri, 16 May 2008 12:36:50 To:"NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &,Views" Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] World's worst poet Quite a shame you feel this way. Not everyone in the SGI regards him that way, but it's a common perception. On Fri, May 16, 2008 at 12:30 PM, > wrote: Of course be mindful that Daisaku Ikeda is the cult leader of Soka Gakkai, an extremist pseudo-buddhist Japanese organization. He is very gifted when it comes to pretty sounding words, but the millions in his organization revere him as a god-like buddha and he does everything to keep them from being disabused of this regard. -----Original Message----- From: Suzanne Baran > Sent: Fri, 16 May 2008 2:22 pm Subject: [New-Poetry] World's worst poet http://real-us.news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20080516/ennew_afp/entertainmentbritainpoetryauction -- "Who is truly great? I hope you can develop the ability to discern true human greatness. A great person is someone who forges unity among human beings through sincere dialogue, armed with a solid philosophy, feet firmly planted on the ground. A great person is one who lives among the people and earns their unshakable trust. Fickle popularity and temporary fads are nothing but illusions." Daily Encouragement - Daisaku Ikeda _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry ---------------- Plan your next roadtrip with MapQuest.com : America's #1 Mapping Site. _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -- "Who is truly great? I hope you can develop the ability to discern true human greatness. A great person is someone who forges unity among human beings through sincere dialogue, armed with a solid philosophy, feet firmly planted on the ground. A great person is one who lives among the people and earns their unshakable trust. Fickle popularity and temporary fads are nothing but illusions." Daily Encouragement - Daisaku Ikeda _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From jfq at myuw.net Fri May 16 17:14:20 2008 From: jfq at myuw.net (Jason Quackenbush) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:41 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] World's worst poet In-Reply-To: <8CA85A27414E9F2-184-8EC@FWM-M29.sysops.aol.com> References: <2d5ffa0b0805161122y612a9191w402da7105fbf9aef@mail.gmail.com> <8CA85A27414E9F2-184-8EC@FWM-M29.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: I'd never join any cult that would have me as a member. On May 16, 2008, at 12:30 PM, shin02143@aol.com wrote: > > Of course be mindful that Daisaku Ikeda is the cult leader of Soka > Gakkai, an extremist pseudo-buddhist Japanese organization. He is > very gifted when it comes to pretty sounding words, but the > millions in his organization revere him as a god-like buddha and he > does everything to keep them from being disabused of this regard. > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Suzanne Baran > Sent: Fri, 16 May 2008 2:22 pm > Subject: [New-Poetry] World's worst poet > > > > > > > > > > http://real-us.news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20080516/ennew_afp/ > entertainmentbritainpoetryauction > > -- > "Who is truly great? I hope you can develop the ability to discern > true human greatness. A great person is someone who forges unity > among human beings through sincere dialogue, armed with a solid > philosophy, feet firmly planted on the ground. A great person is > one who lives among the people and earns their unshakable trust. > Fickle popularity and temporary fads are nothing but illusions." > > > Daily Encouragement - Daisaku Ikeda > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From screwzbaran at gmail.com Fri May 16 17:20:01 2008 From: screwzbaran at gmail.com (Suzanne Baran) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:41 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] World's worst poet In-Reply-To: References: <2d5ffa0b0805161122y612a9191w402da7105fbf9aef@mail.gmail.com> <8CA85A27414E9F2-184-8EC@FWM-M29.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <2d5ffa0b0805161420n48d1b0cfs72afd9dc266e6a00@mail.gmail.com> Heh. I love how you all think it's a cult, but haven't really experienced it first hand! On Fri, May 16, 2008 at 2:14 PM, Jason Quackenbush wrote: > I'd never join any cult that would have me as a member. > > > On May 16, 2008, at 12:30 PM, shin02143@aol.com wrote: > > >> Of course be mindful that Daisaku Ikeda is the cult leader of Soka >> Gakkai, an extremist pseudo-buddhist Japanese organization. He is very >> gifted when it comes to pretty sounding words, but the millions in his >> organization revere him as a god-like buddha and he does everything to keep >> them from being disabused of this regard. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Suzanne Baran >> Sent: Fri, 16 May 2008 2:22 pm >> Subject: [New-Poetry] World's worst poet >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> http://real-us.news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20080516/ennew_afp/ >> entertainmentbritainpoetryauction >> >> -- >> "Who is truly great? I hope you can develop the ability to discern true >> human greatness. A great person is someone who forges unity among human >> beings through sincere dialogue, armed with a solid philosophy, feet firmly >> planted on the ground. A great person is one who lives among the people and >> earns their unshakable trust. Fickle popularity and temporary fads are >> nothing but illusions." >> >> >> Daily Encouragement - Daisaku Ikeda >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- "Who is truly great? I hope you can develop the ability to discern true human greatness. A great person is someone who forges unity among human beings through sincere dialogue, armed with a solid philosophy, feet firmly planted on the ground. A great person is one who lives among the people and earns their unshakable trust. Fickle popularity and temporary fads are nothing but illusions." Daily Encouragement - Daisaku Ikeda -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080516/9ad971a2/attachment.html From jfq at myuw.net Fri May 16 17:20:35 2008 From: jfq at myuw.net (Jason Quackenbush) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:41 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] World's worst poet In-Reply-To: <2d5ffa0b0805161236k59c2ea1bg30fbc13661a0b7db@mail.gmail.com> References: <2d5ffa0b0805161122y612a9191w402da7105fbf9aef@mail.gmail.com> <8CA85A27414E9F2-184-8EC@FWM-M29.sysops.aol.com> <2d5ffa0b0805161236k59c2ea1bg30fbc13661a0b7db@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: "If you meet the buddha on the road, kill him." On May 16, 2008, at 12:36 PM, Suzanne Baran wrote: > Quite a shame you feel this way. Not everyone in the SGI regards > him that way, but it's a common perception. > > On Fri, May 16, 2008 at 12:30 PM, wrote: > Of course be mindful that Daisaku Ikeda is the cult leader of Soka > Gakkai, an extremist pseudo-buddhist Japanese organization. He is > very gifted when it comes to pretty sounding words, but the > millions in his organization revere him as a god-like buddha and he > does everything to keep them from being disabused of this regard. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Suzanne Baran > Sent: Fri, 16 May 2008 2:22 pm > Subject: [New-Poetry] World's worst poet > > http://real-us.news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20080516/ennew_afp/ > entertainmentbritainpoetryauction > > -- > "Who is truly great? I hope you can develop the ability to discern > true human greatness. A great person is someone who forges unity > among human beings through sincere dialogue, armed with a solid > philosophy, feet firmly planted on the ground. A great person is > one who lives among the people and earns their unshakable trust. > Fickle popularity and temporary fads are nothing but illusions." > > Daily Encouragement - Daisaku Ikeda > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > Plan your next roadtrip with MapQuest.com: America's #1 Mapping Site. > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > -- > "Who is truly great? I hope you can develop the ability to discern > true human greatness. A great person is someone who forges unity > among human beings through sincere dialogue, armed with a solid > philosophy, feet firmly planted on the ground. A great person is > one who lives among the people and earns their unshakable trust. > Fickle popularity and temporary fads are nothing but illusions." > > Daily Encouragement - Daisaku Ikeda > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080516/aebfb8e4/attachment.html From jfq at myuw.net Fri May 16 17:23:04 2008 From: jfq at myuw.net (Jason Quackenbush) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:41 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] World's worst poet In-Reply-To: <2d5ffa0b0805161420n48d1b0cfs72afd9dc266e6a00@mail.gmail.com> References: <2d5ffa0b0805161122y612a9191w402da7105fbf9aef@mail.gmail.com> <8CA85A27414E9F2-184-8EC@FWM-M29.sysops.aol.com> <2d5ffa0b0805161420n48d1b0cfs72afd9dc266e6a00@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <5C7C6E0C-5A0B-425A-95A2-65F57D7EA1D0@myuw.net> my definition of a cult is a religious organization that claims to know better than i do the best way for me to live my life. It's a very broad definition. On May 16, 2008, at 2:20 PM, Suzanne Baran wrote: > Heh. I love how you all think it's a cult, but haven't really > experienced it > first hand! > > On Fri, May 16, 2008 at 2:14 PM, Jason Quackenbush > wrote: > >> I'd never join any cult that would have me as a member. >> >> >> On May 16, 2008, at 12:30 PM, shin02143@aol.com wrote: >> >> >>> Of course be mindful that Daisaku Ikeda is the cult leader of Soka >>> Gakkai, an extremist pseudo-buddhist Japanese organization. He is >>> very >>> gifted when it comes to pretty sounding words, but the millions >>> in his >>> organization revere him as a god-like buddha and he does >>> everything to keep >>> them from being disabused of this regard. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Suzanne Baran >>> Sent: Fri, 16 May 2008 2:22 pm >>> Subject: [New-Poetry] World's worst poet >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> http://real-us.news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20080516/ennew_afp/ >>> entertainmentbritainpoetryauction >>> >>> -- >>> "Who is truly great? I hope you can develop the ability to >>> discern true >>> human greatness. A great person is someone who forges unity among >>> human >>> beings through sincere dialogue, armed with a solid philosophy, >>> feet firmly >>> planted on the ground. A great person is one who lives among the >>> people and >>> earns their unshakable trust. Fickle popularity and temporary >>> fads are >>> nothing but illusions." >>> >>> >>> Daily Encouragement - Daisaku Ikeda >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> New-Poetry mailing list >>> New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu >>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> New-Poetry mailing list >>> New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu >>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> > > > > -- > "Who is truly great? I hope you can develop the ability to discern > true > human greatness. A great person is someone who forges unity among > human > beings through sincere dialogue, armed with a solid philosophy, > feet firmly > planted on the ground. A great person is one who lives among the > people and > earns their unshakable trust. Fickle popularity and temporary fads are > nothing but illusions." > > Daily Encouragement - Daisaku Ikeda > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From screwzbaran at gmail.com Fri May 16 17:23:37 2008 From: screwzbaran at gmail.com (Suzanne Baran) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:41 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] World's worst poet In-Reply-To: References: <2d5ffa0b0805161122y612a9191w402da7105fbf9aef@mail.gmail.com> <8CA85A27414E9F2-184-8EC@FWM-M29.sysops.aol.com> <2d5ffa0b0805161236k59c2ea1bg30fbc13661a0b7db@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <2d5ffa0b0805161423l16d611a0s1001fa38818f33a1@mail.gmail.com> "Be your own light, your own authority, your own Buddha. Kill off every image of the Buddha (idols), see who and what you are in this very moment, see that there is no Buddha other than THIS MOMENT." On Fri, May 16, 2008 at 2:20 PM, Jason Quackenbush wrote: > "If you meet the buddha on the road, kill him." > On May 16, 2008, at 12:36 PM, Suzanne Baran wrote: > > Quite a shame you feel this way. Not everyone in the SGI regards him that > way, but it's a common perception. > > On Fri, May 16, 2008 at 12:30 PM, wrote: > >> Of course be mindful that Daisaku Ikeda is the cult leader of Soka >> Gakkai, an extremist pseudo-buddhist Japanese organization. He is very >> gifted when it comes to pretty sounding words, but the millions in his >> organization revere him as a god-like buddha and he does everything to keep >> them from being disabused of this regard. >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Suzanne Baran >> Sent: Fri, 16 May 2008 2:22 pm >> Subject: [New-Poetry] World's worst poet >> >> >> http://real-us.news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20080516/ennew_afp/entertainmentbritainpoetryauction >> >> -- >> "Who is truly great? I hope you can develop the ability to discern true >> human greatness. A great person is someone who forges unity among human >> beings through sincere dialogue, armed with a solid philosophy, feet firmly >> planted on the ground. A great person is one who lives among the people and >> earns their unshakable trust. Fickle popularity and temporary fads are >> nothing but illusions." >> >> Daily Encouragement - Daisaku Ikeda >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> ------------------------------ >> Plan your next roadtrip with MapQuest.com: >> America's #1 Mapping Site. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > > > -- > "Who is truly great? I hope you can develop the ability to discern true > human greatness. A great person is someone who forges unity among human > beings through sincere dialogue, armed with a solid philosophy, feet firmly > planted on the ground. A great person is one who lives among the people and > earns their unshakable trust. Fickle popularity and temporary fads are > nothing but illusions." > > Daily Encouragement - Daisaku Ikeda > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- "Who is truly great? I hope you can develop the ability to discern true human greatness. A great person is someone who forges unity among human beings through sincere dialogue, armed with a solid philosophy, feet firmly planted on the ground. A great person is one who lives among the people and earns their unshakable trust. Fickle popularity and temporary fads are nothing but illusions." Daily Encouragement - Daisaku Ikeda -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080516/8ba9ad02/attachment.html From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Fri May 16 19:44:39 2008 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:41 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] World's worst poet In-Reply-To: <97670666-1210970120-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-2000370775-@bxe141.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> References: <2d5ffa0b0805161122y612a9191w402da7105fbf9aef@mail.gmail.com><8CA85A27414E9F2-184-8EC@FWM-M29.sysops.aol.com><2d5ffa0b0805161236k59c2ea1bg30fbc13661a0b7db@mail.gmail.com> <97670666-1210970120-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-2000370775-@bxe141.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Message-ID: <482E1C67.4010405@nut-n-but.net> > -- "Who is truly great? I hope you can develop the ability to discern true human greatness. A great person is someone who forges unity among human beings through sincere dialogue, armed with a solid philosophy, feet firmly planted on the ground. A great person is one who lives among the people and earns their unshakable trust. Fickle popularity and temporary fads are nothing but illusions." Daily Encouragement - Daisaku Ikeda If this is supposed to be an example of the work of the world's worst poet, I would say it refutes the title: (1) it isn't poetry; (2) it isn't horrible, just standardly air-headed new-age sentimentality --Bob G. From screwzbaran at gmail.com Fri May 16 18:48:46 2008 From: screwzbaran at gmail.com (Suzanne Baran) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:41 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] World's worst poet In-Reply-To: <482E1C67.4010405@nut-n-but.net> References: <2d5ffa0b0805161122y612a9191w402da7105fbf9aef@mail.gmail.com> <8CA85A27414E9F2-184-8EC@FWM-M29.sysops.aol.com> <2d5ffa0b0805161236k59c2ea1bg30fbc13661a0b7db@mail.gmail.com> <97670666-1210970120-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-2000370775-@bxe141.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> <482E1C67.4010405@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <2d5ffa0b0805161548q36212d37u68d41a68f9fa2ee5@mail.gmail.com> Actually Bob there was a link in my original post of the world's worst poet: http://real-us.news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20080516/ennew_afp/entertainmentbritainpoetryauction A discussion on my email signature commenced instead. On Fri, May 16, 2008 at 4:44 PM, Bob Grumman wrote: > > -- "Who is truly great? I hope you can develop the ability to discern true >> human greatness. A great person is someone who forges unity among human >> beings through sincere dialogue, armed with a solid philosophy, feet firmly >> planted on the ground. A great person is one who lives among the people and >> earns their unshakable trust. Fickle popularity and temporary fads are >> nothing but illusions." Daily Encouragement - Daisaku Ikeda >> > If this is supposed to be an example of the work of the world's worst poet, > I would say it refutes the title: (1) it isn't poetry; (2) it isn't > horrible, just standardly air-headed new-age sentimentality > > --Bob G. > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- "Who is truly great? I hope you can develop the ability to discern true human greatness. A great person is someone who forges unity among human beings through sincere dialogue, armed with a solid philosophy, feet firmly planted on the ground. A great person is one who lives among the people and earns their unshakable trust. Fickle popularity and temporary fads are nothing but illusions." Daily Encouragement - Daisaku Ikeda -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080516/58ff9cf5/attachment.html From Opus40-01 at opus40.org Fri May 16 19:32:08 2008 From: Opus40-01 at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:41 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] World's worst poet In-Reply-To: <482E1C67.4010405@nut-n-but.net> References: <2d5ffa0b0805161122y612a9191w402da7105fbf9aef@mail.gmail.com><8CA85A27414E9F2-184-8EC@FWM-M29.sysops.aol.com><2d5ffa0b0805161236k59c2ea1bg30fbc13661a0b7db@mail.gmail.com> <97670666-1210970120-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-2000370775-@bxe141.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> <482E1C67.4010405@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <482E1978.1070304@opus40.org> You mean I should stop thinking continuously of those who were truly great. Bob Grumman wrote: > >> -- "Who is truly great? I hope you can develop the ability to discern >> true human greatness. A great person is someone who forges unity >> among human beings through sincere dialogue, armed with a solid >> philosophy, feet firmly planted on the ground. A great person is one >> who lives among the people and earns their unshakable trust. Fickle >> popularity and temporary fads are nothing but illusions." Daily >> Encouragement - Daisaku Ikeda > If this is supposed to be an example of the work of the world's worst > poet, I would say it refutes the title: (1) it isn't poetry; (2) it > isn't horrible, just standardly air-headed new-age sentimentality > > --Bob G. > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ The moral is this: in American verse, The better you are, the pay is worse. --Corey Ford From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Fri May 16 20:41:43 2008 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:41 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] World's worst poet In-Reply-To: <2d5ffa0b0805161548q36212d37u68d41a68f9fa2ee5@mail.gmail.com> References: <2d5ffa0b0805161122y612a9191w402da7105fbf9aef@mail.gmail.com><8CA85A27414E9F2-184-8EC@FWM-M29.sysops.aol.com><2d5ffa0 b0805161236k59c2ea1bg30fbc13661a0b7db@mail.gmail.com><97670666-1210970120-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-2000370775-@ bxe141.bisx.prod.on.blackberry><482E1C67.4010405@nut-n-but.net> <2d5ffa0b0805161548q36212d37u68d41a68f9fa2ee5@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <482E29C7.7070602@nut-n-but.net> Suzanne Baran wrote: > Actually Bob there was a link in my original post of the world's worst > poet: > http://real-us.news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20080516/ennew_afp/entertainmentbritainpoetryauction > I thought that might be the case but my computer is so slow getting to links, I didn't bother to check. Will do so eventually. --Bob G. From atelierjewelweed at gmail.com Fri May 16 19:44:03 2008 From: atelierjewelweed at gmail.com (Suzanne Burns) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:41 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] World's worst poet In-Reply-To: <482E1978.1070304@opus40.org> References: <2d5ffa0b0805161122y612a9191w402da7105fbf9aef@mail.gmail.com> <8CA85A27414E9F2-184-8EC@FWM-M29.sysops.aol.com> <2d5ffa0b0805161236k59c2ea1bg30fbc13661a0b7db@mail.gmail.com> <97670666-1210970120-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-2000370775-@bxe141.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> <482E1C67.4010405@nut-n-but.net> <482E1978.1070304@opus40.org> Message-ID: Here we go: http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9C02EFDF153DF937A25752C1A96F958260 I spent some time hanging out with folks from Soka Gakkai some years ago. They were nice people in many ways, they were also highly intent upon converting me and in my opinion very controlling and pushy. It struck me as a very "high demand" religion. After awhile it seemed really clear to me that converting me was pretty much all there was to their overtures of friendship-- it quickly became the only topic on conversation, and one person told me that you get "points" for converting someone (she had a specific word for it which I don't remember. I've never encountered any other branch of Buddhism that was like this. Not my thing at all. So that was that. To each their own.... Suzanne On Fri, May 16, 2008 at 7:32 PM, TheOldMole wrote: > You mean I should stop thinking continuously of those who were truly great. > > > Bob Grumman wrote: > >> >> -- "Who is truly great? I hope you can develop the ability to discern >>> true human greatness. A great person is someone who forges unity among human >>> beings through sincere dialogue, armed with a solid philosophy, feet firmly >>> planted on the ground. A great person is one who lives among the people and >>> earns their unshakable trust. Fickle popularity and temporary fads are >>> nothing but illusions." Daily Encouragement - Daisaku Ikeda >>> >> If this is supposed to be an example of the work of the world's worst >> poet, I would say it refutes the title: (1) it isn't poetry; (2) it isn't >> horrible, just standardly air-headed new-age sentimentality >> >> --Bob G. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > -- > Tad Richards > http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ > http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ > > The moral is this: in American verse, > The better you are, the pay is worse. > --Corey Ford > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080516/99e915f4/attachment.html From screwzbaran at gmail.com Fri May 16 19:46:18 2008 From: screwzbaran at gmail.com (Suzanne Baran) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:41 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] World's worst poet In-Reply-To: References: <2d5ffa0b0805161122y612a9191w402da7105fbf9aef@mail.gmail.com> <8CA85A27414E9F2-184-8EC@FWM-M29.sysops.aol.com> <2d5ffa0b0805161236k59c2ea1bg30fbc13661a0b7db@mail.gmail.com> <97670666-1210970120-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-2000370775-@bxe141.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> <482E1C67.4010405@nut-n-but.net> <482E1978.1070304@opus40.org> Message-ID: <2d5ffa0b0805161646l50780fc1k2d755009c7cdd123@mail.gmail.com> It's really a shame people have these experiences. Mine have been empowering...you can't base a philosophy, country, or religion on its people, I guess. On Fri, May 16, 2008 at 4:44 PM, Suzanne Burns wrote: > Here we go: > > > http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9C02EFDF153DF937A25752C1A96F958260 > > > I spent some time hanging out with folks from Soka Gakkai some years ago. > They were nice people in many ways, they were also highly intent upon > converting me and in my opinion very controlling and pushy. It struck me as > a very "high demand" religion. After awhile it seemed really clear to me > that converting me was pretty much all there was to their overtures of > friendship-- it quickly became the only topic on conversation, and one > person told me that you get "points" for converting someone (she had a > specific word for it which I don't remember. > > I've never encountered any other branch of Buddhism that was like this. > Not my thing at all. So that was that. > > To each their own.... > > > Suzanne > > > > > On Fri, May 16, 2008 at 7:32 PM, TheOldMole wrote: > >> You mean I should stop thinking continuously of those who were truly >> great. >> >> >> Bob Grumman wrote: >> >>> >>> -- "Who is truly great? I hope you can develop the ability to discern >>>> true human greatness. A great person is someone who forges unity among human >>>> beings through sincere dialogue, armed with a solid philosophy, feet firmly >>>> planted on the ground. A great person is one who lives among the people and >>>> earns their unshakable trust. Fickle popularity and temporary fads are >>>> nothing but illusions." Daily Encouragement - Daisaku Ikeda >>>> >>> If this is supposed to be an example of the work of the world's worst >>> poet, I would say it refutes the title: (1) it isn't poetry; (2) it isn't >>> horrible, just standardly air-headed new-age sentimentality >>> >>> --Bob G. >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> New-Poetry mailing list >>> New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu >>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>> >>> >> -- >> Tad Richards >> http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ >> http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ >> >> The moral is this: in American verse, >> The better you are, the pay is worse. >> --Corey Ford >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- "Who is truly great? I hope you can develop the ability to discern true human greatness. A great person is someone who forges unity among human beings through sincere dialogue, armed with a solid philosophy, feet firmly planted on the ground. A great person is one who lives among the people and earns their unshakable trust. Fickle popularity and temporary fads are nothing but illusions." Daily Encouragement - Daisaku Ikeda -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080516/59c6f422/attachment.html From cstroffo at earthlink.net Fri May 16 19:51:14 2008 From: cstroffo at earthlink.net (Chris Stroffolino) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:41 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] World's worst poet In-Reply-To: <2d5ffa0b0805161646l50780fc1k2d755009c7cdd123@mail.gmail.com> References: <2d5ffa0b0805161122y612a9191w402da7105fbf9aef@mail.gmail.com> <8CA85A27414E9F2-184-8EC@FWM-M29.sysops.aol.com> <2d5ffa0b0805161236k59c2ea1bg30fbc13661a0b7db@mail.gmail.com> <97670666-1210970120-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-2000370775-@bxe141.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> <482E1C67.4010405@nut-n-but.net> <482E1978.1070304@opus40.org> <2d5ffa0b0805161646l50780fc1k2d755009c7cdd123@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: And Suzanne Baran has been a genuine friend of mine for a few years.....and never once tried to convert me On May 16, 2008, at 4:46 PM, Suzanne Baran wrote: > It's really a shame people have these experiences. Mine have been > empowering...you can't base a philosophy, country, or religion on > its people, I guess. > > On Fri, May 16, 2008 at 4:44 PM, Suzanne Burns > wrote: > Here we go: > > http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html? > res=9C02EFDF153DF937A25752C1A96F958260 > > > I spent some time hanging out with folks from Soka Gakkai some > years ago. They were nice people in many ways, they were also > highly intent upon converting me and in my opinion very controlling > and pushy. It struck me as a very "high demand" religion. After > awhile it seemed really clear to me that converting me was pretty > much all there was to their overtures of friendship-- it quickly > became the only topic on conversation, and one person told me that > you get "points" for converting someone (she had a specific word > for it which I don't remember. > > I've never encountered any other branch of Buddhism that was like > this. Not my thing at all. So that was that. > > To each their own.... > > > Suzanne > > > > > On Fri, May 16, 2008 at 7:32 PM, TheOldMole > wrote: > You mean I should stop thinking continuously of those who were > truly great. > > > Bob Grumman wrote: > > -- "Who is truly great? I hope you can develop the ability to > discern true human greatness. A great person is someone who forges > unity among human beings through sincere dialogue, armed with a > solid philosophy, feet firmly planted on the ground. A great person > is one who lives among the people and earns their unshakable trust. > Fickle popularity and temporary fads are nothing but illusions." > Daily Encouragement - Daisaku Ikeda > If this is supposed to be an example of the work of the world's > worst poet, I would say it refutes the title: (1) it isn't poetry; > (2) it isn't horrible, just standardly air-headed new-age > sentimentality > > --Bob G. > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > -- > Tad Richards > http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ > http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ > > The moral is this: in American verse, > The better you are, the pay is worse. > --Corey Ford > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > -- > "Who is truly great? I hope you can develop the ability to discern > true human greatness. A great person is someone who forges unity > among human beings through sincere dialogue, armed with a solid > philosophy, feet firmly planted on the ground. A great person is > one who lives among the people and earns their unshakable trust. > Fickle popularity and temporary fads are nothing but illusions." > > Daily Encouragement - Daisaku Ikeda > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080516/de0bc14a/attachment.html From chan_jt at hotmail.com Fri May 16 20:05:26 2008 From: chan_jt at hotmail.com (JT Chan) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:42 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] debut issue of Numinous: Spiritual Poetry is now online Message-ID: The debut issue of Numinous: Spiritual Poetry is now online at http://numinousmagazine.wordpress.com . featuring new work by: Steve Dalachinsky Gerald Schwartz Christophe Casamassima Sarah Sarai Luke Schlueter Pramila Venkateswaran Kimberley L. Becker James Lineberger Tasha Klein Francis Raven Gregory Vincent St. Thomasino Raewyn Alexander Duane Locke Anna Rugis George Wallace Submissions now open for the December issue. Send them to numinousmagazine@yahoo.com . Please read the submission guidelines before submitting. Thanks. regards J Chan editor _________________________________________________________________ SEEK New Zealand's #1 jobsite http://a.ninemsn.com.au/b.aspx?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fmsn%2Eseek%2Eco%2Enz%2FID%5FSEEKNZMAIN%5FUSR%2FPages%2Falliance%5Fhomepage%2Eascx%3FComeFrom%3Dmsnnz%26tracking%3Dsk%3Asptlmini%3Ask%3Amsnnz%3A0%3Awindowslive%3A%231&_t=757263783&_r=Seek_NZ_tagline_no1&_m=EXT -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080517/4698b93b/attachment.html From jforjames at aol.com Fri May 16 20:10:23 2008 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames@aol.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:42 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] World's worst poet In-Reply-To: References: <2d5ffa0b0805161122y612a9191w402da7105fbf9aef@mail.gmail.com> <8CA85A27414E9F2-184-8EC@FWM-M29.sysops.aol.com> <2d5ffa0b0805161236k59c2ea1bg30fbc13661a0b7db@mail.gmail.com> <97670666-1210970120-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-2000370775-@bxe141.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> <482E1C67.4010405@nut-n-but.net> <482E1978.1070304@opus40.org> <2d5ffa0b0805161646l50780fc1k2d755009c7cdd123@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <8CA85C9890FEAA0-17E0-1C14@webmail-stg-d10.sysops.aol.com> Chris, I guess some people are just beyond all hope for redemption. Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: Chris Stroffolino Sent: Fri, 16 May 2008 7:51 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] World's worst poet And Suzanne Baran has been a genuine friend of mine for a few years.....and never once tried to convert me? On May 16, 2008, at 4:46 PM, Suzanne Baran wrote: It's really a shame people have these experiences. Mine have been empowering...you can't base a philosophy, country, or religion on its people, I guess. On Fri, May 16, 2008 at 4:44 PM, Suzanne Burns wrote: Here we go: http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9C02EFDF153DF937A25752C1A96F958260 I spent some time hanging out with folks from Soka Gakkai some years ago.? They were nice people in many ways, they were also highly intent upon converting me and in my opinion very controlling and pushy.? It struck me as a very "high demand" religion.? After awhile it seemed really clear to me that converting me was pretty much all there was to their overtures of friendship-- it quickly became the only topic on conversation, and one person told me that you get "points" for converting someone (she had a specific word for it which I don't remember. I've never encountered any other branch of Buddhism that was like this.? Not my thing at all.? So that was that. To each their own.... Suzanne On Fri, May 16, 2008 at 7:32 PM, TheOldMole wrote: You mean I should stop thinking continuously of those who were truly great. Bob Grumman wrote: -- "Who is truly great? I hope you can develop the ability to discern true human greatness. A great person is someone who forges unity among human beings through sincere dialogue, armed with a solid philosophy, feet firmly planted on the ground. A great person is one who lives among the people and earns their unshakable trust. Fickle popularity and temporary fads are nothing but illusions." Daily Encouragement - Daisaku Ikeda If this is supposed to be an example of the work of the world's worst poet, I would say it refutes the title: (1) it isn't poetry; (2) it isn't horrible, just standardly air-headed new-age sentimentality --Bob G. _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ The moral is this: in American verse, The better you are, the pay is worse. ?--Corey Ford _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -- "Who is truly great? I hope you can develop the ability to discern true human greatness. A great person is someone who forges unity among human beings through sincere dialogue, armed with a solid philosophy, feet firmly planted on the ground. A great person is one who lives among the people and earns their unshakable trust. Fickle popularity and temporary fads are nothing but illusions." Daily Encouragement - Daisaku Ikeda _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry = _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080516/3b16ee6b/attachment.html From atelierjewelweed at gmail.com Fri May 16 20:38:35 2008 From: atelierjewelweed at gmail.com (Suzanne Burns) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:42 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] World's worst poet In-Reply-To: <2d5ffa0b0805161646l50780fc1k2d755009c7cdd123@mail.gmail.com> References: <2d5ffa0b0805161122y612a9191w402da7105fbf9aef@mail.gmail.com> <8CA85A27414E9F2-184-8EC@FWM-M29.sysops.aol.com> <2d5ffa0b0805161236k59c2ea1bg30fbc13661a0b7db@mail.gmail.com> <97670666-1210970120-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-2000370775-@bxe141.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> <482E1C67.4010405@nut-n-but.net> <482E1978.1070304@opus40.org> <2d5ffa0b0805161646l50780fc1k2d755009c7cdd123@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: This was *only* my experience. I came away with a general "Eh, not what I want feeling" more than anything else. If your experience has been different, I think that's great! Suzanne On Fri, May 16, 2008 at 7:46 PM, Suzanne Baran wrote: > It's really a shame people have these experiences. Mine have been > empowering...you can't base a philosophy, country, or religion on its > people, I guess. > > > On Fri, May 16, 2008 at 4:44 PM, Suzanne Burns > wrote: > >> Here we go: >> >> >> http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9C02EFDF153DF937A25752C1A96F958260 >> >> >> I spent some time hanging out with folks from Soka Gakkai some years ago. >> They were nice people in many ways, they were also highly intent upon >> converting me and in my opinion very controlling and pushy. It struck me as >> a very "high demand" religion. After awhile it seemed really clear to me >> that converting me was pretty much all there was to their overtures of >> friendship-- it quickly became the only topic on conversation, and one >> person told me that you get "points" for converting someone (she had a >> specific word for it which I don't remember. >> >> I've never encountered any other branch of Buddhism that was like this. >> Not my thing at all. So that was that. >> >> To each their own.... >> >> >> Suzanne >> >> >> >> >> On Fri, May 16, 2008 at 7:32 PM, TheOldMole wrote: >> >>> You mean I should stop thinking continuously of those who were truly >>> great. >>> >>> >>> Bob Grumman wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> -- "Who is truly great? I hope you can develop the ability to discern >>>>> true human greatness. A great person is someone who forges unity among human >>>>> beings through sincere dialogue, armed with a solid philosophy, feet firmly >>>>> planted on the ground. A great person is one who lives among the people and >>>>> earns their unshakable trust. Fickle popularity and temporary fads are >>>>> nothing but illusions." Daily Encouragement - Daisaku Ikeda >>>>> >>>> If this is supposed to be an example of the work of the world's worst >>>> poet, I would say it refutes the title: (1) it isn't poetry; (2) it isn't >>>> horrible, just standardly air-headed new-age sentimentality >>>> >>>> --Bob G. >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> New-Poetry mailing list >>>> New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu >>>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>>> >>>> >>> -- >>> Tad Richards >>> http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ >>> http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ >>> >>> The moral is this: in American verse, >>> The better you are, the pay is worse. >>> --Corey Ford >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> New-Poetry mailing list >>> New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu >>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > > > -- > "Who is truly great? I hope you can develop the ability to discern true > human greatness. A great person is someone who forges unity among human > beings through sincere dialogue, armed with a solid philosophy, feet firmly > planted on the ground. A great person is one who lives among the people and > earns their unshakable trust. Fickle popularity and temporary fads are > nothing but illusions." > > Daily Encouragement - Daisaku Ikeda > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080516/50431c5f/attachment.html From shin02143 at aol.com Fri May 16 21:10:36 2008 From: shin02143 at aol.com (shin02143@aol.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:42 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] World's worst poet In-Reply-To: <482E1978.1070304@opus40.org> References: <2d5ffa0b0805161122y612a9191w402da7105fbf9aef@mail.gmail.com><8CA85A27414E9F2-184-8EC@FWM-M29.sysops.aol.com><2d5ffa0b0805161236k59c2ea1bg30fbc13661a0b7db@mail.gmail.com> <97670666-1210970120-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-2000370775-@bxe141.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> <482E1C67.4010405@nut-n-but.net> <482E1978.1070304@opus40.org> Message-ID: <8CA85D1F2B468AF-C8C-2A4B@WEBMAIL-MB19.sysops.aol.com> Ikeda is a "poet" of sorts. He had a falling out with Nichiren Shoshu (a fundamentalist Japanese sect with which SGI was affiliated) and they excommunicated him and all of SGI. As a result, Ikeda wrote "poems" degrading and demonizing Nichiren Shoshu's high priest. If you want to read something hilarious read Ikeda's "poems" attacking Nichiren Shoshu. He's a "published poet" too - as "president" of SGI he gets his poems published in the cult's newspaper, World Tribune, also full of laughs. >> -- "Who is truly great? I hope you can develop the ability to discern >> true human greatness. A great person is someone who forges unity >> among human beings through sincere dialogue, armed with a solid >> philosophy, feet firmly planted on the ground. A great person is one >> who lives among the people and earns their unshakable trust. Fickle >> popularity and temporary fads are nothing but illusions." Daily >> Encouragement - Daisaku Ikeda > -----Original Message----- From: TheOldMole Sent: Fri, 16 May 2008 7:32 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] World's worst poet You mean I should stop thinking continuously of those who were truly great.? ? Bob Grumman wrote:? >? >> -- "Who is truly great? I hope you can develop the ability to discern >> true human greatness. A great person is someone who forges unity >> among human beings through sincere dialogue, armed with a solid >> philosophy, feet firmly planted on the ground. A great person is one >> who lives among the people and earns their unshakable trust. Fickle >> popularity and temporary fads are nothing but illusions." Daily >> Encouragement - Daisaku Ikeda > If this is supposed to be an example of the work of the world's worst > poet, I would say it refutes the title: (1) it isn't poetry; (2) it > isn't horrible, just standardly air-headed new-age sentimentality? >? > --Bob G.? >? > _______________________________________________? > New-Poetry mailing list? > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu? > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry? >? ? -- Tad Richards? http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/? http://opusforty.blogspot.com/? ? The moral is this: in American verse,? The better you are, the pay is worse.? ?--Corey Ford? ? _______________________________________________? New-Poetry mailing list? New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu? http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080516/03e05813/attachment.html From shin02143 at aol.com Fri May 16 21:13:22 2008 From: shin02143 at aol.com (shin02143@aol.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:42 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] World's worst poet In-Reply-To: References: <2d5ffa0b0805161122y612a9191w402da7105fbf9aef@mail.gmail.com> <8CA85A27414E9F2-184-8EC@FWM-M29.sysops.aol.com> <2d5ffa0b0805161236k59c2ea1bg30fbc13661a0b7db@mail.gmail.com> <97670666-1210970120-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-2000370775-@bxe141.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> <482E1C67.4010405@nut-n-but.net> <482E1978.1070304@opus40.org> Message-ID: <8CA85D25518D922-C8C-2A57@WEBMAIL-MB19.sysops.aol.com> The term you are thinking of is "shakubuku" - it is a Japanese term which in essence means breaking someone's resistance and recruiting them into SGI through mind control. People who recruit people into SGI boast that they "shakubuku'ed" the newcomer.? -----Original Message----- From: Suzanne Burns Sent: Fri, 16 May 2008 7:44 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] World's worst poet Here we go: http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9C02EFDF153DF937A25752C1A96F958260 I spent some time hanging out with folks from Soka Gakkai some years ago.? They were nice people in many ways, they were also highly intent upon converting me and in my opinion very controlling and pushy.? It struck me as a very "high demand" religion.? After awhile it seemed really clear to me that converting me was pretty much all there was to their overtures of friendship-- it quickly became the only topic on conversation, and one person told me that you get "points" for converting someone (she had a specific word for it which I don't remember. I've never encountered any other branch of Buddhism that was like this.? Not my thing at all.? So that was that. To each their own.... Suzanne On Fri, May 16, 2008 at 7:32 PM, TheOldMole wrote: You mean I should stop thinking continuously of those who were truly great. Bob Grumman wrote: -- "Who is truly great? I hope you can develop the ability to discern true human greatness. A great person is someone who forges unity among human beings through sincere dialogue, armed with a solid philosophy, feet firmly planted on the ground. A great person is one who lives among the people and earns their unshakable trust. Fickle popularity and temporary fads are nothing but illusions." Daily Encouragement - Daisaku Ikeda If this is supposed to be an example of the work of the world's worst poet, I would say it refutes the title: (1) it isn't poetry; (2) it isn't horrible, just standardly air-headed new-age sentimentality --Bob G. _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ The moral is this: in American verse, The better you are, the pay is worse. ?--Corey Ford _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080516/c75114f0/attachment.html From screwzbaran at gmail.com Fri May 16 21:17:07 2008 From: screwzbaran at gmail.com (Suzanne Baran) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:42 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] World's worst poet In-Reply-To: <8CA85D1F2B468AF-C8C-2A4B@WEBMAIL-MB19.sysops.aol.com> References: <2d5ffa0b0805161122y612a9191w402da7105fbf9aef@mail.gmail.com> <8CA85A27414E9F2-184-8EC@FWM-M29.sysops.aol.com> <2d5ffa0b0805161236k59c2ea1bg30fbc13661a0b7db@mail.gmail.com> <97670666-1210970120-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-2000370775-@bxe141.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> <482E1C67.4010405@nut-n-but.net> <482E1978.1070304@opus40.org> <8CA85D1F2B468AF-C8C-2A4B@WEBMAIL-MB19.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <2d5ffa0b0805161817l74cef710vde59e1fe2743e0db@mail.gmail.com> Wow. Lots of misguided facts here. Nichiren Sh?sh? claims Nichiren as its founder through his disciple Nikk?. He was never excommunicated, he began his own practice. *The World Tribune*inspires some, turns off others. So much animosity is steered toward people who are trying to spread hope and optimism.Daisaku Ikeda is founded of a number of cultural, educational and peace research institutions around the world. Based on the 700-year-old tradition of Nichiren Buddhism, SGI is characterized by its emphasis on individual empowerment and social engagement to advance peace, culture and education. On Fri, May 16, 2008 at 6:10 PM, wrote: > Ikeda is a "poet" of sorts. He had a falling out with Nichiren Shoshu (a > fundamentalist Japanese sect with which SGI was affiliated) and they > excommunicated him and all of SGI. As a result, Ikeda wrote "poems" > degrading and demonizing Nichiren Shoshu's high priest. If you want to read > something hilarious read Ikeda's "poems" attacking Nichiren Shoshu. He's a > "published poet" too - as "president" of SGI he gets his poems published in > the cult's newspaper, World Tribune, also full of laughs. > > >> -- "Who is truly great? I hope you can develop the ability to discern >> > true human greatness. A great person is someone who forges unity >> among > human beings through sincere dialogue, armed with a solid >> philosophy, > feet firmly planted on the ground. A great person is one >> who lives among > the people and earns their unshakable trust. Fickle >> popularity and > temporary fads are nothing but illusions." Daily >> Encouragement - Daisaku > Ikeda > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: TheOldMole > Sent: Fri, 16 May 2008 7:32 pm > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] World's worst poet > > You mean I should stop thinking continuously of those who were truly > great. > > Bob Grumman wrote: > > > >> -- "Who is truly great? I hope you can develop the ability to discern >> > true human greatness. A great person is someone who forges unity >> among > human beings through sincere dialogue, armed with a solid >> philosophy, > feet firmly planted on the ground. A great person is one >> who lives among > the people and earns their unshakable trust. Fickle >> popularity and > temporary fads are nothing but illusions." Daily >> Encouragement - Daisaku > Ikeda > If this is supposed to be an example of the work of the world's > worst > poet, I would say it refutes the title: (1) it isn't poetry; (2) it > > isn't horrible, just standardly air-headed new-age sentimentality > > > > --Bob G. > > > > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > -- Tad Richards > http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ > http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ > > The moral is this: in American verse, > The better you are, the pay is worse. > --Corey Ford > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > ------------------------------ > Plan your next roadtrip with MapQuest.com: > America's #1 Mapping Site. > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- "Who is truly great? I hope you can develop the ability to discern true human greatness. A great person is someone who forges unity among human beings through sincere dialogue, armed with a solid philosophy, feet firmly planted on the ground. A great person is one who lives among the people and earns their unshakable trust. Fickle popularity and temporary fads are nothing but illusions." Daily Encouragement - Daisaku Ikeda -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080516/1bcb3423/attachment.html From screwzbaran at gmail.com Fri May 16 21:18:00 2008 From: screwzbaran at gmail.com (Suzanne Baran) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:42 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] World's worst poet In-Reply-To: <8CA85D25518D922-C8C-2A57@WEBMAIL-MB19.sysops.aol.com> References: <2d5ffa0b0805161122y612a9191w402da7105fbf9aef@mail.gmail.com> <8CA85A27414E9F2-184-8EC@FWM-M29.sysops.aol.com> <2d5ffa0b0805161236k59c2ea1bg30fbc13661a0b7db@mail.gmail.com> <97670666-1210970120-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-2000370775-@bxe141.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> <482E1C67.4010405@nut-n-but.net> <482E1978.1070304@opus40.org> <8CA85D25518D922-C8C-2A57@WEBMAIL-MB19.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <2d5ffa0b0805161818v2e8ded0dv5b66bf8dd10a1e05@mail.gmail.com> Actually, it means to introduce someone to the practice. No mind control tactics take place. Sorry you've had some negative experiences! On Fri, May 16, 2008 at 6:13 PM, wrote: > The term you are thinking of is "shakubuku" - it is a Japanese term which > in essence means breaking someone's resistance and recruiting them into SGI > through mind control. People who recruit people into SGI boast that they > "shakubuku'ed" the newcomer. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Suzanne Burns > Sent: Fri, 16 May 2008 7:44 pm > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] World's worst poet > > Here we go: > > > http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9C02EFDF153DF937A25752C1A96F958260 > > > I spent some time hanging out with folks from Soka Gakkai some years ago. > They were nice people in many ways, they were also highly intent upon > converting me and in my opinion very controlling and pushy. It struck me as > a very "high demand" religion. After awhile it seemed really clear to me > that converting me was pretty much all there was to their overtures of > friendship-- it quickly became the only topic on conversation, and one > person told me that you get "points" for converting someone (she had a > specific word for it which I don't remember. > > I've never encountered any other branch of Buddhism that was like this. > Not my thing at all. So that was that. > > To each their own.... > > > Suzanne > > > > On Fri, May 16, 2008 at 7:32 PM, TheOldMole wrote: > >> You mean I should stop thinking continuously of those who were truly >> great. >> >> >> Bob Grumman wrote: >> >>> >>> -- "Who is truly great? I hope you can develop the ability to discern >>>> true human greatness. A great person is someone who forges unity among human >>>> beings through sincere dialogue, armed with a solid philosophy, feet firmly >>>> planted on the ground. A great person is one who lives among the people and >>>> earns their unshakable trust. Fickle popularity and temporary fads are >>>> nothing but illusions." Daily Encouragement - Daisaku Ikeda >>>> >>> If this is supposed to be an example of the work of the world's worst >>> poet, I would say it refutes the title: (1) it isn't poetry; (2) it isn't >>> horrible, just standardly air-headed new-age sentimentality >>> >>> --Bob G. >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> New-Poetry mailing list >>> New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu >>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>> >>> >> -- >> Tad Richards >> http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ >> http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ >> >> The moral is this: in American verse, >> The better you are, the pay is worse. >> --Corey Ford >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing listNew-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.eduhttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > ------------------------------ > Plan your next roadtrip with MapQuest.com: > America's #1 Mapping Site. > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- "Who is truly great? I hope you can develop the ability to discern true human greatness. A great person is someone who forges unity among human beings through sincere dialogue, armed with a solid philosophy, feet firmly planted on the ground. A great person is one who lives among the people and earns their unshakable trust. Fickle popularity and temporary fads are nothing but illusions." Daily Encouragement - Daisaku Ikeda -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080516/4c88c224/attachment.html From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Fri May 16 22:16:32 2008 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:42 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] World's worst poet In-Reply-To: <482E1978.1070304@opus40.org> References: <2d5ffa0b0805161122y612a9191w402da7105fbf9aef@mail.gmail.com><8CA85A27414E9F2-184-8EC@FWM-M29.sysops.aol.com><2d5ffa0 b0805161236k59c2ea1bg30fbc13661a0b7db@mail.gmail.com> <97670666-1210970120-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-2000370775-@bxe141.bisx.prod.on.blackberry><482E1C67.4010405@nut -n-but.net> <482E1978.1070304@opus40.org> Message-ID: <482E4000.6030701@nut-n-but.net> TheOldMole wrote: > You mean I should stop thinking continuously of those who were truly > great. > Heavens, no. Keep doing it, but find more intelligent ways to describe what you're after. --Bob G. > Bob Grumman wrote: >> -- "Who is truly great? I hope you can develop the ability to discern >> true human greatness. A great person is someone who forges unity >> among human beings through sincere dialogue, armed with a solid >> philosophy, feet firmly planted on the ground. A great person is one >> who lives among the people and earns their unshakable trust. Fickle >> popularity and temporary fads are nothing but illusions." Daily >> Encouragement - Daisaku Ikeda > If this is supposed to be an example of the work of the world's worst > poet, I would say it refutes the title: (1) it isn't poetry; (2) it > isn't horrible, just standardly air-headed new-age sentimentality > > --Bob G. > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > From atelierjewelweed at gmail.com Fri May 16 21:36:00 2008 From: atelierjewelweed at gmail.com (Suzanne Burns) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:42 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] World's worst poet In-Reply-To: <2d5ffa0b0805161818v2e8ded0dv5b66bf8dd10a1e05@mail.gmail.com> References: <2d5ffa0b0805161122y612a9191w402da7105fbf9aef@mail.gmail.com> <8CA85A27414E9F2-184-8EC@FWM-M29.sysops.aol.com> <2d5ffa0b0805161236k59c2ea1bg30fbc13661a0b7db@mail.gmail.com> <97670666-1210970120-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-2000370775-@bxe141.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> <482E1C67.4010405@nut-n-but.net> <482E1978.1070304@opus40.org> <8CA85D25518D922-C8C-2A57@WEBMAIL-MB19.sysops.aol.com> <2d5ffa0b0805161818v2e8ded0dv5b66bf8dd10a1e05@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: For what it is worth, here is what the Encyclopedia Britannica says: "After World War II, Soka-gakkai, under the leadership of Toda Josei (1900?58), grew rapidly through a technique of evangelism called shakubuku (Japanese: "break and subdue"), in which the resistance of the other person is destroyed by forceful argument. " Does "shakubuku" in fact mean "break and subdue"? Anyone out there know Japanese? Suzanne On 5/16/08, Suzanne Baran wrote: > Actually, it means to introduce someone to the practice. No mind control > tactics take place. Sorry you've had some negative experiences! > > On Fri, May 16, 2008 at 6:13 PM, wrote: > >> The term you are thinking of is "shakubuku" - it is a Japanese term which >> in essence means breaking someone's resistance and recruiting them into >> SGI >> through mind control. People who recruit people into SGI boast that they >> "shakubuku'ed" the newcomer. >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Suzanne Burns >> Sent: Fri, 16 May 2008 7:44 pm >> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] World's worst poet >> >> Here we go: >> >> >> http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9C02EFDF153DF937A25752C1A96F958260 >> >> >> I spent some time hanging out with folks from Soka Gakkai some years ago. >> They were nice people in many ways, they were also highly intent upon >> converting me and in my opinion very controlling and pushy. It struck me >> as >> a very "high demand" religion. After awhile it seemed really clear to me >> that converting me was pretty much all there was to their overtures of >> friendship-- it quickly became the only topic on conversation, and one >> person told me that you get "points" for converting someone (she had a >> specific word for it which I don't remember. >> >> I've never encountered any other branch of Buddhism that was like this. >> Not my thing at all. So that was that. >> >> To each their own.... >> >> >> Suzanne >> >> >> >> On Fri, May 16, 2008 at 7:32 PM, TheOldMole wrote: >> >>> You mean I should stop thinking continuously of those who were truly >>> great. >>> >>> >>> Bob Grumman wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> -- "Who is truly great? I hope you can develop the ability to discern >>>>> true human greatness. A great person is someone who forges unity among >>>>> human >>>>> beings through sincere dialogue, armed with a solid philosophy, feet >>>>> firmly >>>>> planted on the ground. A great person is one who lives among the people >>>>> and >>>>> earns their unshakable trust. Fickle popularity and temporary fads are >>>>> nothing but illusions." Daily Encouragement - Daisaku Ikeda >>>>> >>>> If this is supposed to be an example of the work of the world's worst >>>> poet, I would say it refutes the title: (1) it isn't poetry; (2) it >>>> isn't >>>> horrible, just standardly air-headed new-age sentimentality >>>> >>>> --Bob G. >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> New-Poetry mailing list >>>> New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu >>>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>>> >>>> >>> -- >>> Tad Richards >>> http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ >>> http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ >>> >>> The moral is this: in American verse, >>> The better you are, the pay is worse. >>> --Corey Ford >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> New-Poetry mailing list >>> New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu >>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing >> listNew-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.eduhttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> ------------------------------ >> Plan your next roadtrip with >> MapQuest.com: >> America's #1 Mapping Site. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > > > -- > "Who is truly great? I hope you can develop the ability to discern true > human greatness. A great person is someone who forges unity among human > beings through sincere dialogue, armed with a solid philosophy, feet firmly > planted on the ground. A great person is one who lives among the people and > earns their unshakable trust. Fickle popularity and temporary fads are > nothing but illusions." > > Daily Encouragement - Daisaku Ikeda > From screwzbaran at gmail.com Fri May 16 21:41:39 2008 From: screwzbaran at gmail.com (Suzanne Baran) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:43 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] World's worst poet In-Reply-To: References: <2d5ffa0b0805161122y612a9191w402da7105fbf9aef@mail.gmail.com> <8CA85A27414E9F2-184-8EC@FWM-M29.sysops.aol.com> <2d5ffa0b0805161236k59c2ea1bg30fbc13661a0b7db@mail.gmail.com> <97670666-1210970120-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-2000370775-@bxe141.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> <482E1C67.4010405@nut-n-but.net> <482E1978.1070304@opus40.org> <8CA85D25518D922-C8C-2A57@WEBMAIL-MB19.sysops.aol.com> <2d5ffa0b0805161818v2e8ded0dv5b66bf8dd10a1e05@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <2d5ffa0b0805161841o18a80dd2g550f7680f0d0a5a5@mail.gmail.com> It's not meant to be forceful resistance or breaking anyone! It's a peaceful org and all this is very propaganda based. The Imagery of Nichiren's Lotus Sutra - Other Characters of Interest to Buddhists *Shakubuku in Chinese ? * *Shaku* *Shaku* is *Che* or* She* in Chinese. It is composed of two radicals: On the left is the front view of a hand. On the right is an ax. *Shaku* is the action of an ax in a hand. It means to cut, to break, to burst (Wieger ). To snap, to decide, to compound, to fold, to subdue evil and receive good (Soothill ). *Buku* * Buku* is *Fu *in Chinese. It is composed of two radicals: On the left is a person. On the right is a dog. *Buku* is a person imitating a dog ? i.e. being subservient or lowly. It means to crouch, to prostrate oneself, to hide, to humble (Wieger). To prostrate, humble, suffer, bear, ambush, dog-days, under control, e.g. as delusion (Soothill ). *Shakubuku *means to break (*Shaku*) delusion (*Buku*) ? to cut suffering ? to empower. Critics of Nichiren's Buddhism commonly mistranslate the word *Shakubuku* as "to break and subdue." The problem with this "translation" is that the word "and" (*ni* in Chinese) does not appear in the word *Shakubuku*. If it did, it would read *Shakunibuku*. *Shakubuku* is not breaking and subduing people, it is stopping suffering and awakening to life's potential. *Another point:* It is better not to say: "This is John, my *Shakubuku*." It makes a new person sound like a possession. On Fri, May 16, 2008 at 6:36 PM, Suzanne Burns wrote: > For what it is worth, here is what the Encyclopedia Britannica says: > > "After World War II, Soka-gakkai, under the leadership of Toda Josei > (1900?58), grew rapidly through a technique of evangelism called > shakubuku (Japanese: "break and subdue"), in which the resistance of > the other person is destroyed by forceful argument. " > > Does "shakubuku" in fact mean "break and subdue"? > > Anyone out there know Japanese? > > Suzanne > > > On 5/16/08, Suzanne Baran wrote: > > Actually, it means to introduce someone to the practice. No mind control > > tactics take place. Sorry you've had some negative experiences! > > > > On Fri, May 16, 2008 at 6:13 PM, wrote: > > > >> The term you are thinking of is "shakubuku" - it is a Japanese term > which > >> in essence means breaking someone's resistance and recruiting them into > >> SGI > >> through mind control. People who recruit people into SGI boast that they > >> "shakubuku'ed" the newcomer. > >> > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: Suzanne Burns > >> Sent: Fri, 16 May 2008 7:44 pm > >> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] World's worst poet > >> > >> Here we go: > >> > >> > >> > http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9C02EFDF153DF937A25752C1A96F958260 > >> > >> > >> I spent some time hanging out with folks from Soka Gakkai some years > ago. > >> They were nice people in many ways, they were also highly intent upon > >> converting me and in my opinion very controlling and pushy. It struck > me > >> as > >> a very "high demand" religion. After awhile it seemed really clear to > me > >> that converting me was pretty much all there was to their overtures of > >> friendship-- it quickly became the only topic on conversation, and one > >> person told me that you get "points" for converting someone (she had a > >> specific word for it which I don't remember. > >> > >> I've never encountered any other branch of Buddhism that was like this. > >> Not my thing at all. So that was that. > >> > >> To each their own.... > >> > >> > >> Suzanne > >> > >> > >> > >> On Fri, May 16, 2008 at 7:32 PM, TheOldMole > wrote: > >> > >>> You mean I should stop thinking continuously of those who were truly > >>> great. > >>> > >>> > >>> Bob Grumman wrote: > >>> > >>>> > >>>> -- "Who is truly great? I hope you can develop the ability to discern > >>>>> true human greatness. A great person is someone who forges unity > among > >>>>> human > >>>>> beings through sincere dialogue, armed with a solid philosophy, feet > >>>>> firmly > >>>>> planted on the ground. A great person is one who lives among the > people > >>>>> and > >>>>> earns their unshakable trust. Fickle popularity and temporary fads > are > >>>>> nothing but illusions." Daily Encouragement - Daisaku Ikeda > >>>>> > >>>> If this is supposed to be an example of the work of the world's worst > >>>> poet, I would say it refutes the title: (1) it isn't poetry; (2) it > >>>> isn't > >>>> horrible, just standardly air-headed new-age sentimentality > >>>> > >>>> --Bob G. > >>>> > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> New-Poetry mailing list > >>>> New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > >>>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > >>>> > >>>> > >>> -- > >>> Tad Richards > >>> http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ > >>> http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ > >>> > >>> The moral is this: in American verse, > >>> The better you are, the pay is worse. > >>> --Corey Ford > >>> > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> New-Poetry mailing list > >>> New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > >>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > >>> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> New-Poetry mailing > >> listNew-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.eduhttp:// > wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > >> > >> ------------------------------ > >> Plan your next roadtrip with > >> MapQuest.com: > >> America's #1 Mapping Site. > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> New-Poetry mailing list > >> New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > >> > >> > > > > > > -- > > "Who is truly great? I hope you can develop the ability to discern true > > human greatness. A great person is someone who forges unity among human > > beings through sincere dialogue, armed with a solid philosophy, feet > firmly > > planted on the ground. A great person is one who lives among the people > and > > earns their unshakable trust. Fickle popularity and temporary fads are > > nothing but illusions." > > > > Daily Encouragement - Daisaku Ikeda > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- "Who is truly great? I hope you can develop the ability to discern true human greatness. A great person is someone who forges unity among human beings through sincere dialogue, armed with a solid philosophy, feet firmly planted on the ground. A great person is one who lives among the people and earns their unshakable trust. Fickle popularity and temporary fads are nothing but illusions." Daily Encouragement - Daisaku Ikeda -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080516/147fcb3c/attachment.html From cstroffo at earthlink.net Fri May 16 21:43:50 2008 From: cstroffo at earthlink.net (Chris Stroffolino) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:43 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] World's worst poet (SHAKUBUKU) In-Reply-To: References: <2d5ffa0b0805161122y612a9191w402da7105fbf9aef@mail.gmail.com> <8CA85A27414E9F2-184-8EC@FWM-M29.sysops.aol.com> <2d5ffa0b0805161236k59c2ea1bg30fbc13661a0b7db@mail.gmail.com> <97670666-1210970120-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-2000370775-@bxe141.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> <482E1C67.4010405@nut-n-but.net> <482E1978.1070304@opus40.org> <8CA85D25518D922-C8C-2A57@WEBMAIL-MB19.sysops.aol.com> <2d5ffa0b0805161818v2e8ded0dv5b66bf8dd10a1e05@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <8975F308-5D5F-4065-ADD3-115AC4AD549C@earthlink.net> the other person destroyed by forceful wow, that sounds like it could be a description of Derrida, for instance (or foucault, death of author, etc. etc... Or poet-polemicists? Pound? others? C On May 16, 2008, at 6:36 PM, Suzanne Burns wrote: > For what it is worth, here is what the Encyclopedia Britannica says: > > "After World War II, Soka-gakkai, under the leadership of Toda Josei > (1900?58), grew rapidly through a technique of evangelism called > shakubuku (Japanese: "break and subdue"), in which the resistance of > the other person is destroyed by forceful argument. " > > Does "shakubuku" in fact mean "break and subdue"? > > Anyone out there know Japanese? > > Suzanne > > > On 5/16/08, Suzanne Baran wrote: >> Actually, it means to introduce someone to the practice. No mind >> control >> tactics take place. Sorry you've had some negative experiences! >> >> On Fri, May 16, 2008 at 6:13 PM, wrote: >> >>> The term you are thinking of is "shakubuku" - it is a Japanese >>> term which >>> in essence means breaking someone's resistance and recruiting >>> them into >>> SGI >>> through mind control. People who recruit people into SGI boast >>> that they >>> "shakubuku'ed" the newcomer. >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Suzanne Burns >>> Sent: Fri, 16 May 2008 7:44 pm >>> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] World's worst poet >>> >>> Here we go: >>> >>> >>> http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html? >>> res=9C02EFDF153DF937A25752C1A96F958260 >>> >>> >>> I spent some time hanging out with folks from Soka Gakkai some >>> years ago. >>> They were nice people in many ways, they were also highly intent >>> upon >>> converting me and in my opinion very controlling and pushy. It >>> struck me >>> as >>> a very "high demand" religion. After awhile it seemed really >>> clear to me >>> that converting me was pretty much all there was to their >>> overtures of >>> friendship-- it quickly became the only topic on conversation, >>> and one >>> person told me that you get "points" for converting someone (she >>> had a >>> specific word for it which I don't remember. >>> >>> I've never encountered any other branch of Buddhism that was like >>> this. >>> Not my thing at all. So that was that. >>> >>> To each their own.... >>> >>> >>> Suzanne >>> >>> >>> >>> On Fri, May 16, 2008 at 7:32 PM, TheOldMole >>> wrote: >>> >>>> You mean I should stop thinking continuously of those who were >>>> truly >>>> great. >>>> >>>> >>>> Bob Grumman wrote: >>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- "Who is truly great? I hope you can develop the ability to >>>>> discern >>>>>> true human greatness. A great person is someone who forges >>>>>> unity among >>>>>> human >>>>>> beings through sincere dialogue, armed with a solid >>>>>> philosophy, feet >>>>>> firmly >>>>>> planted on the ground. A great person is one who lives among >>>>>> the people >>>>>> and >>>>>> earns their unshakable trust. Fickle popularity and temporary >>>>>> fads are >>>>>> nothing but illusions." Daily Encouragement - Daisaku Ikeda >>>>>> >>>>> If this is supposed to be an example of the work of the world's >>>>> worst >>>>> poet, I would say it refutes the title: (1) it isn't poetry; >>>>> (2) it >>>>> isn't >>>>> horrible, just standardly air-headed new-age sentimentality >>>>> >>>>> --Bob G. >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> New-Poetry mailing list >>>>> New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu >>>>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>>>> >>>>> >>>> -- >>>> Tad Richards >>>> http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ >>>> http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ >>>> >>>> The moral is this: in American verse, >>>> The better you are, the pay is worse. >>>> --Corey Ford >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> New-Poetry mailing list >>>> New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu >>>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> New-Poetry mailing >>> listNew-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.eduhttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/ >>> listinfo/new-poetry >>> >>> ------------------------------ >>> Plan your next roadtrip with >>> MapQuest.com: >>> America's #1 Mapping Site. >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> New-Poetry mailing list >>> New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu >>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>> >>> >> >> >> -- >> "Who is truly great? I hope you can develop the ability to discern >> true >> human greatness. A great person is someone who forges unity among >> human >> beings through sincere dialogue, armed with a solid philosophy, >> feet firmly >> planted on the ground. A great person is one who lives among the >> people and >> earns their unshakable trust. Fickle popularity and temporary fads >> are >> nothing but illusions." >> >> Daily Encouragement - Daisaku Ikeda >> > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From duemer at gmail.com Fri May 16 22:08:27 2008 From: duemer at gmail.com (Joseph Duemer) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:43 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] World's worst poet In-Reply-To: <2d5ffa0b0805161841o18a80dd2g550f7680f0d0a5a5@mail.gmail.com> References: <2d5ffa0b0805161122y612a9191w402da7105fbf9aef@mail.gmail.com> <2d5ffa0b0805161236k59c2ea1bg30fbc13661a0b7db@mail.gmail.com> <97670666-1210970120-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-2000370775-@bxe141.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> <482E1C67.4010405@nut-n-but.net> <482E1978.1070304@opus40.org> <8CA85D25518D922-C8C-2A57@WEBMAIL-MB19.sysops.aol.com> <2d5ffa0b0805161818v2e8ded0dv5b66bf8dd10a1e05@mail.gmail.com> <2d5ffa0b0805161841o18a80dd2g550f7680f0d0a5a5@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Teh stupid! Please make it stop! Buddhist evangelicalism! And all this making nice in a poetic political correctness sort of way? Let's call a cult a cult. My god, this is a depressing discussion. No wonder nobody respects poets -- their brains have all turned to fucking mush. The grammar & rhetoric of Ms. Baran's sentences in the posts above are evidence enough for me to never credit anything she says. Complete twaddle. Language matters. (Just an attempt to bring this thread into some sort of relevance for a * poetry* discussion list.) jd -- Joseph Duemer Professor of Humanities Clarkson University Weblog: sharpsand.net -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080516/5d86e8d4/attachment.html From screwzbaran at gmail.com Fri May 16 22:13:15 2008 From: screwzbaran at gmail.com (Suzanne Baran) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:43 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] World's worst poet In-Reply-To: References: <2d5ffa0b0805161122y612a9191w402da7105fbf9aef@mail.gmail.com> <97670666-1210970120-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-2000370775-@bxe141.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> <482E1C67.4010405@nut-n-but.net> <482E1978.1070304@opus40.org> <8CA85D25518D922-C8C-2A57@WEBMAIL-MB19.sysops.aol.com> <2d5ffa0b0805161818v2e8ded0dv5b66bf8dd10a1e05@mail.gmail.com> <2d5ffa0b0805161841o18a80dd2g550f7680f0d0a5a5@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <2d5ffa0b0805161913i741aedc2wd6747d0f7d977280@mail.gmail.com> JD: I happen to be programming the front page of the largest Web portal on the Net. Forgive me if my grammar is not up to par, Professor. Your comments are revolting, sir. Instead of putting out a fire (which began because someone referenced my email signature and not an article on the world's worst poet), you're adding nonsensical fuel to it. Have a lovely weekend. On Fri, May 16, 2008 at 7:08 PM, Joseph Duemer wrote: > Teh stupid! Please make it stop! Buddhist evangelicalism! And all this > making nice in a poetic political correctness sort of way? Let's call a cult > a cult. My god, this is a depressing discussion. No wonder nobody respects > poets -- their brains have all turned to fucking mush. The grammar & > rhetoric of Ms. Baran's sentences in the posts above are evidence enough for > me to never credit anything she says. Complete twaddle. Language matters. > (Just an attempt to bring this thread into some sort of relevance for a * > poetry* discussion list.) > > jd > > > > -- > Joseph Duemer > Professor of Humanities > Clarkson University > Weblog: sharpsand.net > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- "Who is truly great? I hope you can develop the ability to discern true human greatness. A great person is someone who forges unity among human beings through sincere dialogue, armed with a solid philosophy, feet firmly planted on the ground. A great person is one who lives among the people and earns their unshakable trust. Fickle popularity and temporary fads are nothing but illusions." Daily Encouragement - Daisaku Ikeda -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080516/1a3106f6/attachment.html From atelierjewelweed at gmail.com Fri May 16 22:29:44 2008 From: atelierjewelweed at gmail.com (Suzanne Burns) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:43 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] World's worst poet In-Reply-To: <2d5ffa0b0805161913i741aedc2wd6747d0f7d977280@mail.gmail.com> References: <2d5ffa0b0805161122y612a9191w402da7105fbf9aef@mail.gmail.com> <482E1C67.4010405@nut-n-but.net> <482E1978.1070304@opus40.org> <8CA85D25518D922-C8C-2A57@WEBMAIL-MB19.sysops.aol.com> <2d5ffa0b0805161818v2e8ded0dv5b66bf8dd10a1e05@mail.gmail.com> <2d5ffa0b0805161841o18a80dd2g550f7680f0d0a5a5@mail.gmail.com> <2d5ffa0b0805161913i741aedc2wd6747d0f7d977280@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Okay guys! While I have my own skepticism about SGI based on my own personal experiences, I really have to say that throwing around words like "cult" and insulting someone's religion, and then get all worked up and surly when they stand up for themselves kind of doesn't make much sense if you are going to say you care about language-- or for that matter cause and effect. How can you call someone's religion a "cult" and not expect them to feel insulted and answer back? I mean really, what's your whole point here? Suzanne didn't bring up the topic of Buddhism on this list; someone else did, in response to her signature. I hope my remarks didn't contribute to the flame. Could we all just back off a bit and tone things down? Or at the very least if you are going to insult someone expect something in return that you probably won't like? Suzanne On Fri, May 16, 2008 at 10:13 PM, Suzanne Baran wrote: > JD: > > I happen to be programming the front page of the largest Web portal on the > Net. Forgive me if my grammar is not up to par, Professor. Your comments are > revolting, sir. Instead of putting out a fire (which began because someone > referenced my email signature and not an article on the world's worst poet), > you're adding nonsensical fuel to it. > > Have a lovely weekend. > > On Fri, May 16, 2008 at 7:08 PM, Joseph Duemer wrote: > >> Teh stupid! Please make it stop! Buddhist evangelicalism! And all this >> making nice in a poetic political correctness sort of way? Let's call a cult >> a cult. My god, this is a depressing discussion. No wonder nobody respects >> poets -- their brains have all turned to fucking mush. The grammar & >> rhetoric of Ms. Baran's sentences in the posts above are evidence enough for >> me to never credit anything she says. Complete twaddle. Language matters. >> (Just an attempt to bring this thread into some sort of relevance for a * >> poetry* discussion list.) >> >> jd >> >> >> >> -- >> Joseph Duemer >> Professor of Humanities >> Clarkson University >> Weblog: sharpsand.net >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > > > -- > "Who is truly great? I hope you can develop the ability to discern true > human greatness. A great person is someone who forges unity among human > beings through sincere dialogue, armed with a solid philosophy, feet firmly > planted on the ground. A great person is one who lives among the people and > earns their unshakable trust. Fickle popularity and temporary fads are > nothing but illusions." > > Daily Encouragement - Daisaku Ikeda > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080516/28124b23/attachment.html From screwzbaran at gmail.com Fri May 16 22:31:36 2008 From: screwzbaran at gmail.com (Suzanne Baran) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:43 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] World's worst poet In-Reply-To: References: <2d5ffa0b0805161122y612a9191w402da7105fbf9aef@mail.gmail.com> <482E1978.1070304@opus40.org> <8CA85D25518D922-C8C-2A57@WEBMAIL-MB19.sysops.aol.com> <2d5ffa0b0805161818v2e8ded0dv5b66bf8dd10a1e05@mail.gmail.com> <2d5ffa0b0805161841o18a80dd2g550f7680f0d0a5a5@mail.gmail.com> <2d5ffa0b0805161913i741aedc2wd6747d0f7d977280@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <2d5ffa0b0805161931q76d5579aw5d38c2905a12e8f0@mail.gmail.com> Thank you, Suzanne, brilliantly said! On Fri, May 16, 2008 at 7:29 PM, Suzanne Burns wrote: > Okay guys! While I have my own skepticism about SGI based on my own > personal experiences, I really have to say that throwing around words like > "cult" and insulting someone's religion, and then get all worked up and > surly when they stand up for themselves kind of doesn't make much sense if > you are going to say you care about language-- or for that matter cause and > effect. How can you call someone's religion a "cult" and not expect them > to feel insulted and answer back? I mean really, what's your whole point > here? > > Suzanne didn't bring up the topic of Buddhism on this list; someone else > did, in response to her signature. > > I hope my remarks didn't contribute to the flame. Could we all just back > off a bit and tone things down? Or at the very least if you are going to > insult someone expect something in return that you probably won't like? > > Suzanne > > > > > > On Fri, May 16, 2008 at 10:13 PM, Suzanne Baran > wrote: > >> JD: >> >> I happen to be programming the front page of the largest Web portal on the >> Net. Forgive me if my grammar is not up to par, Professor. Your comments are >> revolting, sir. Instead of putting out a fire (which began because someone >> referenced my email signature and not an article on the world's worst poet), >> you're adding nonsensical fuel to it. >> >> Have a lovely weekend. >> >> On Fri, May 16, 2008 at 7:08 PM, Joseph Duemer wrote: >> >>> Teh stupid! Please make it stop! Buddhist evangelicalism! And all this >>> making nice in a poetic political correctness sort of way? Let's call a cult >>> a cult. My god, this is a depressing discussion. No wonder nobody respects >>> poets -- their brains have all turned to fucking mush. The grammar & >>> rhetoric of Ms. Baran's sentences in the posts above are evidence enough for >>> me to never credit anything she says. Complete twaddle. Language matters. >>> (Just an attempt to bring this thread into some sort of relevance for a >>> *poetry* discussion list.) >>> >>> jd >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Joseph Duemer >>> Professor of Humanities >>> Clarkson University >>> Weblog: sharpsand.net >>> _______________________________________________ >>> New-Poetry mailing list >>> New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu >>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>> >>> >> >> >> -- >> "Who is truly great? I hope you can develop the ability to discern true >> human greatness. A great person is someone who forges unity among human >> beings through sincere dialogue, armed with a solid philosophy, feet firmly >> planted on the ground. A great person is one who lives among the people and >> earns their unshakable trust. Fickle popularity and temporary fads are >> nothing but illusions." >> >> Daily Encouragement - Daisaku Ikeda >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- "Who is truly great? I hope you can develop the ability to discern true human greatness. A great person is someone who forges unity among human beings through sincere dialogue, armed with a solid philosophy, feet firmly planted on the ground. A great person is one who lives among the people and earns their unshakable trust. Fickle popularity and temporary fads are nothing but illusions." Daily Encouragement - Daisaku Ikeda -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080516/c0c2c0f6/attachment.html From anny.ballardini at tin.it Sat May 17 04:09:17 2008 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:43 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] San Francisco indie rapper Message-ID: <4423EA9D476A47E4BDFD418BE9013CDB@AnnyPC> http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=90511054 Lyrics Born, an indie rapper from San Francisco, recalls a time when hip-hop was almost invariably fun, brisk, and at least somewhat lighthearted. "I Like It, I Love It" has an old-school foundation to start with; it samples "Cutie Pie," an elastic, thumping '80s pop-funk hit from the now largely forgotten band One Way. Lyrics Born (a.k.a. Tim Shimura) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080517/e200ad32/attachment.html From anny.ballardini at tin.it Sat May 17 04:49:27 2008 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:43 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] San Francisco indie rapper In-Reply-To: <4423EA9D476A47E4BDFD418BE9013CDB@AnnyPC> References: <4423EA9D476A47E4BDFD418BE9013CDB@AnnyPC> Message-ID: <775547F2622B4BD681FC2BB91379AC16@AnnyPC> also DeVotchKa: Soaring and Silken, Sad and Lovely http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=90370290 and "Hideaway," the title track from The Weepies' new album, sticks to the folksy sound of the duo's early releases, but it also features Talan's intoxicating voice at its best. http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=90429969 ----- Original Message ----- From: Anny Ballardini To: New Poetry Sent: Saturday, May 17, 2008 10:09 AM Subject: [New-Poetry] San Francisco indie rapper http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=90511054 Lyrics Born, an indie rapper from San Francisco, recalls a time when hip-hop was almost invariably fun, brisk, and at least somewhat lighthearted. "I Like It, I Love It" has an old-school foundation to start with; it samples "Cutie Pie," an elastic, thumping '80s pop-funk hit from the now largely forgotten band One Way. Lyrics Born (a.k.a. Tim Shimura) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080517/68a8e414/attachment.html From shin02143 at aol.com Sat May 17 08:06:34 2008 From: shin02143 at aol.com (shin02143@aol.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:43 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] World's worst poet In-Reply-To: <2d5ffa0b0805161817l74cef710vde59e1fe2743e0db@mail.gmail.com> References: <2d5ffa0b0805161122y612a9191w402da7105fbf9aef@mail.gmail.com> <8CA85A27414E9F2-184-8EC@FWM-M29.sysops.aol.com> <2d5ffa0b0805161236k59c2ea1bg30fbc13661a0b7db@mail.gmail.com> <97670666-1210970120-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-2000370775-@bxe141.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> <482E1C67.4010405@nut-n-but.net> <482E1978.1070304@opus40.org> <8CA85D1F2B468AF-C8C-2A4B@WEBMAIL-MB19.sysops.aol.com> <2d5ffa0b0805161817l74cef710vde59e1fe2743e0db@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <8CA862D95FF0EBD-11D8-2A0B@WEBMAIL-MA04.sysops.aol.com> Yes, I know the official "party line" of SGI. They are very slick in promoting their organization. And Ikeda is very clever at arranging all sorts of honorary medals for himself. He is a billionaire. Not exactly a Mother Theresa. -----Original Message----- From: Suzanne Baran Sent: Fri, 16 May 2008 9:17 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] World's worst poet Wow. Lots of misguided facts here. Nichiren Sh?sh? claims Nichiren as its founder through his disciple Nikk?. He was never excommunicated, he began his own practice. The World Tribune inspires some, turns off others. So much animosity is steered toward people who are trying to spread hope and optimism.Daisaku Ikeda is founded of a number of cultural, educational and peace research institutions around the world.? Based on the 700-year-old tradition of Nichiren Buddhism, SGI is characterized by its emphasis on individual empowerment and social engagement to advance peace, culture and education. On Fri, May 16, 2008 at 6:10 PM, wrote: Ikeda is a "poet" of sorts. He had a falling out with Nichiren Shoshu (a fundamentalist Japanese sect with which SGI was affiliated) and they excommunicated him and all of SGI. As a result, Ikeda wrote "poems" degrading and demonizing Nichiren Shoshu's high priest. If you want to read something hilarious read Ikeda's "poems" attacking Nichiren Shoshu. He's a "published poet" too - as "president" of SGI he gets his poems published in the cult's newspaper, World Tribune, also full of laughs. >> -- "Who is truly great? I hope you can develop the ability to discern >> true human greatness. A great person is someone who forges unity >> among human beings through sincere dialogue, armed with a solid >> philosophy, feet firmly planted on the ground. A great person is one >> who lives among the people and earns their unshakable trust. Fickle >> popularity and temporary fads are nothing but illusions." Daily >> Encouragement - Daisaku Ikeda > -----Original Message----- From: TheOldMole Sent: Fri, 16 May 2008 7:32 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] World's worst poet You mean I should stop thinking continuously of those who were truly great.? ? Bob Grumman wrote:? >? >> -- "Who is truly great? I hope you can develop the ability to discern >> true human greatness. A great person is someone who forges unity >> among human beings through sincere dialogue, armed with a solid >> philosophy, feet firmly planted on the ground. A great person is one >> who lives among the people and earns their unshakable trust. Fickle >> popularity and temporary fads are nothing but illusions." Daily >> Encouragement - Daisaku Ikeda > If this is supposed to be an example of the work of the world's worst > poet, I would say it refutes the title: (1) it isn't poetry; (2) it > isn't horrible, just standardly air-headed new-age sentimentality? >? > --Bob G.? >? > _______________________________________________? > New-Poetry mailing list? > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu? > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry? >? ? -- Tad Richards? http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/? http://opusforty.blogspot.com/? ? The moral is this: in American verse,? The better you are, the pay is worse.? ?--Corey Ford? ? _______________________________________________? New-Poetry mailing list? New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu? http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry? Plan your next roadtrip with MapQuest.com: America's #1 Mapping Site. _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -- "Who is truly great? I hope you can develop the ability to discern true human greatness. A great person is someone who forges unity among human beings through sincere dialogue, armed with a solid philosophy, feet firmly planted on the ground. A great person is one who lives among the people and earns their unshakable trust. Fickle popularity and temporary fads are nothing but illusions." Daily Encouragement - Daisaku Ikeda _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080517/29f4028c/attachment.html From shin02143 at aol.com Sat May 17 08:12:25 2008 From: shin02143 at aol.com (shin02143@aol.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:44 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] World's worst poet In-Reply-To: References: <2d5ffa0b0805161122y612a9191w402da7105fbf9aef@mail.gmail.com> <8CA85A27414E9F2-184-8EC@FWM-M29.sysops.aol.com> <2d5ffa0b0805161236k59c2ea1bg30fbc13661a0b7db@mail.gmail.com> <97670666-1210970120-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-2000370775-@bxe141.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> <482E1C67.4010405@nut-n-but.net> <482E1978.1070304@opus40.org> <8CA85D25518D922-C8C-2A57@WEBMAIL-MB19.sysops.aol.com> <2d5ffa0b0805161818v2e8ded0dv5b66bf8dd10a1e05@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <8CA862E674B8CF9-11D8-2A30@WEBMAIL-MA04.sysops.aol.com> I know from reading that "break and subdue" is the literal meaning of shakubuku. Does "shakubuku" in fact mean "break and subdue"? Anyone out there know Japanese? Suzanne -----Original Message----- From: Suzanne Burns Sent: Fri, 16 May 2008 9:36 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] World's worst poet For what it is worth, here is what the Encyclopedia Britannica says: "After World War II, Soka-gakkai, under the leadership of Toda Josei (1900?58), grew rapidly through a technique of evangelism called shakubuku (Japanese: "break and subdue"), in which the resistance of the other person is destroyed by forceful argument. " Does "shakubuku" in fact mean "break and subdue"? Anyone out there know Japanese? Suzanne On 5/16/08, Suzanne Baran wrote: > Actually, it means to introduce someone to the practice. No mind control > tactics take place. Sorry you've had some negative experiences! > > On Fri, May 16, 2008 at 6:13 PM, wrote: > >> The term you are thinking of is "shakubuku" - it is a Japanese term which >> in essence means breaking someone's resistance and recruiting them into >> SGI >> through mind control. People who recruit people into SGI boast that they >> "shakubuku'ed" the newcomer. >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Suzanne Burns >> Sent: Fri, 16 May 2008 7:44 pm >> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] World's worst poet >> >> Here we go: >> >> >> http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9C02EFDF153DF937A25752C1A96F958260 >> >> >> I spent some time hanging out with folks from Soka Gakkai some years ago. >> They were nice people in many ways, they were also highly intent upon >> converting me and in my opinion very controlling and pushy. It struck me >> as >> a very "high demand" religion. After awhile it seemed really clear to me >> that converting me was pretty much all there was to their overtures of >> friendship-- it quickly became the only topic on conversation, and one >> person told me that you get "points" for converting someone (she had a >> specific word for it which I don't remember. >> >> I've never encountered any other branch of Buddhism that was like this. >> Not my thing at all. So that was that. >> >> To each their own.... >> >> >> Suzanne >> >> >> >> On Fri, May 16, 2008 at 7:32 PM, TheOldMole wrote: >> >>> You mean I should stop thinking continuously of those who were truly >>> great. >>> >>> >>> Bob Grumman wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> -- "Who is truly great? I hope you can develop the ability to discern >>>>> true human greatness. A great person is someone who forges unity among >>>>> human >>>>> beings through sincere dialogue, armed with a solid philosophy, feet >>>>> firmly >>>>> planted on the ground. A great person is one who lives among the people >>>>> and >>>>> earns their unshakable trust. Fickle popularity and temporary fads are >>>>> nothing but illusions." Daily Encouragement - Daisaku Ikeda >>>>> >>>> If this is supposed to be an example of the work of the world's worst >>>> poet, I would say it refutes the title: (1) it isn't poetry; (2) it >>>> isn't >>>> horrible, just standardly air-headed new-age sentimentality >>>> >>>> --Bob G. >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> New-Poetry mailing list >>>> New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu >>>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>>> >>>> >>> -- >>> Tad Richards >>> http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ >>> http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ >>> >>> The moral is this: in American verse, >>> The better you are, the pay is worse. >>> --Corey Ford >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> New-Poetry mailing list >>> New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu >>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing >> listNew-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.eduhttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> ------------------------------ >> Plan your next roadtrip with >> MapQuest.com: >> America's #1 Mapping Site. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > > > -- > "Who is truly great? I hope you can develop the ability to discern true > human greatness. A great person is someone who forges unity among human > beings through sincere dialogue, armed with a solid philosophy, feet firmly > planted on the ground. A great person is one who lives among the people and > earns their unshakable trust. Fickle popularity and temporary fads are > nothing but illusions." > > Daily Encouragement - Daisaku Ikeda > _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080517/5065ba0e/attachment.html From shin02143 at aol.com Sat May 17 08:14:45 2008 From: shin02143 at aol.com (shin02143@aol.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:44 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] World's worst poet In-Reply-To: References: <2d5ffa0b0805161122y612a9191w402da7105fbf9aef@mail.gmail.com> <2d5ffa0b0805161236k59c2ea1bg30fbc13661a0b7db@mail.gmail.com> <97670666-1210970120-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-2000370775-@bxe141.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> <482E1C67.4010405@nut-n-but.net> <482E1978.1070304@opus40.org> <8CA85D25518D922-C8C-2A57@WEBMAIL-MB19.sysops.aol.com> <2d5ffa0b0805161818v2e8ded0dv5b66bf8dd10a1e05@mail.gmail.com> <2d5ffa0b0805161841o18a80dd2g550f7680f0d0a5a5@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <8CA862EBA46EB01-11D8-2A45@WEBMAIL-MA04.sysops.aol.com> I agree completely, Joseph. But it is important to alert people to the danger of cults such as SGI. -----Original Message----- From: Joseph Duemer Sent: Fri, 16 May 2008 10:08 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] World's worst poet Teh stupid! Please make it stop! Buddhist evangelicalism! And all this making nice in a poetic political correctness sort of way? Let's call a cult a cult. My god, this is a depressing discussion. No wonder nobody respects poets -- their brains have all turned to fucking mush. The grammar & rhetoric of Ms. Baran's sentences in the posts above are evidence enough for me to never credit anything she says. Complete twaddle. Language matters. (Just an attempt to bring this thread into some sort of relevance for a poetry discussion list.) jd -- Joseph Duemer Professor of Humanities Clarkson University Weblog: sharpsand.net _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080517/6ce2e220/attachment.html From duemer at gmail.com Sat May 17 09:04:13 2008 From: duemer at gmail.com (Joseph Duemer) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:44 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] World's worst poet In-Reply-To: <8CA862EBA46EB01-11D8-2A45@WEBMAIL-MA04.sysops.aol.com> References: <2d5ffa0b0805161122y612a9191w402da7105fbf9aef@mail.gmail.com> <482E1C67.4010405@nut-n-but.net> <482E1978.1070304@opus40.org> <8CA85D25518D922-C8C-2A57@WEBMAIL-MB19.sysops.aol.com> <2d5ffa0b0805161818v2e8ded0dv5b66bf8dd10a1e05@mail.gmail.com> <2d5ffa0b0805161841o18a80dd2g550f7680f0d0a5a5@mail.gmail.com> <8CA862EBA46EB01-11D8-2A45@WEBMAIL-MA04.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: Funny, the original post led to a story about the "world's worst poet" & he was pretty bad, but Daisaku Ikedagives William McGonagall serious competition. Here is an excerpt from a poem called "Poetry": This rich fountain of the spirit I call the poetic heart the poetic heart that is the source of all human creativity and power of imagination It fashions the dreams and daring and hopes of this earth creates harmony and concord It possesses a force no person whosoever can defy It transforms the wasteland within us into a fertile plain Great poems trenchantly capture the truth of that human life force that blends with and beats in rhythm with nature and the universe They overflow with compassion and feeling for all beings They rouse and call forth the poetic heart in others They bring out the flower and fragrance in human nature This I believe: restitution of the poetic heart means nothing less than transforming the coming age into the century of the human being! Ms. Baren misunderstands my original objections, assuming that by "grammar & rhetoric" I meant the sort of surface features one's sixth grade teacher corrects in red pen. But of course that's not what I'm talking about at all, but about empty grammatical forms put to specious rhetorical uses. The quotation that began this conversation is as bathetic as the poem above. I'm offended by this kind of language and the fact that it is not howled down even on a poetry discussion list is a mark of intellectual decrepitude. No doubt such sentiments will earn me the spit-flecked epithets of "sir" and (even more damning) "professor" again. So be it. jd On Sat, May 17, 2008 at 8:14 AM, wrote: > I agree completely, Joseph. But it is important to alert people to the > danger of cults such as SGI. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Joseph Duemer > Sent: Fri, 16 May 2008 10:08 pm > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] World's worst poet > > Teh stupid! Please make it stop! Buddhist evangelicalism! And all this > making nice in a poetic political correctness sort of way? Let's call a cult > a cult. My god, this is a depressing discussion. No wonder nobody respects > poets -- their brains have all turned to fucking mush. The grammar & > rhetoric of Ms. Baran's sentences in the posts above are evidence enough for > me to never credit anything she says. Complete twaddle. Language matters. > (Just an attempt to bring this thread into some sort of relevance for a * > poetry* discussion list.) > > jd > > > > -- > Joseph Duemer > Professor of Humanities > Clarkson University > Weblog: sharpsand.net > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing listNew-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.eduhttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > ------------------------------ > Plan your next roadtrip with MapQuest.com: > America's #1 Mapping Site. > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Joseph Duemer Professor of Humanities Clarkson University Weblog: sharpsand.net -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080517/be909470/attachment.html From jjeffreymail at yahoo.com Sat May 17 09:24:15 2008 From: jjeffreymail at yahoo.com (John Jeffrey) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:44 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] World's worst poet In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200178.30415.qm@web54107.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Good God or Allah or Buddha forbid that someone call someone's religion a cult. As free-minded poets we never should judge, should never make fun or insult. All thoughts and actions and people are equal (unless they eat meat or believe in free trade). Come live with me here behind dead-bolted doors, and, here, drink this cup of Kool-Aid. Suzanne Burns wrote: Okay guys! While I have my own skepticism about SGI based on my own personal experiences, I really have to say that throwing around words like "cult" and insulting someone's religion, and then get all worked up and surly when they stand up for themselves kind of doesn't make much sense if you are going to say you care about language-- or for that matter cause and effect. How can you call someone's religion a "cult" and not expect them to feel insulted and answer back? I mean really, what's your whole point here? Suzanne didn't bring up the topic of Buddhism on this list; someone else did, in response to her signature. I hope my remarks didn't contribute to the flame. Could we all just back off a bit and tone things down? Or at the very least if you are going to insult someone expect something in return that you probably won't like? Suzanne On Fri, May 16, 2008 at 10:13 PM, Suzanne Baran wrote: JD: I happen to be programming the front page of the largest Web portal on the Net. Forgive me if my grammar is not up to par, Professor. Your comments are revolting, sir. Instead of putting out a fire (which began because someone referenced my email signature and not an article on the world's worst poet), you're adding nonsensical fuel to it. Have a lovely weekend. On Fri, May 16, 2008 at 7:08 PM, Joseph Duemer wrote: Teh stupid! Please make it stop! Buddhist evangelicalism! And all this making nice in a poetic political correctness sort of way? Let's call a cult a cult. My god, this is a depressing discussion. No wonder nobody respects poets -- their brains have all turned to fucking mush. The grammar & rhetoric of Ms. Baran's sentences in the posts above are evidence enough for me to never credit anything she says. Complete twaddle. Language matters. (Just an attempt to bring this thread into some sort of relevance for a poetry discussion list.) jd -- Joseph Duemer Professor of Humanities Clarkson University Weblog: sharpsand.net _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -- "Who is truly great? I hope you can develop the ability to discern true human greatness. A great person is someone who forges unity among human beings through sincere dialogue, armed with a solid philosophy, feet firmly planted on the ground. A great person is one who lives among the people and earns their unshakable trust. Fickle popularity and temporary fads are nothing but illusions." Daily Encouragement - Daisaku Ikeda _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080517/939f6a8d/attachment.html From grahamd at ripon.edu Sat May 17 10:01:25 2008 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:44 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetry--Good, Bad, & Kleinzahler In-Reply-To: References: <2d5ffa0b0805161122y612a9191w402da7105fbf9aef@mail.gmail.com> <482E1C67.4010405@nut-n-but.net> <482E1978.1070304@opus40.org> <8CA85D25518D922-C8C-2A57@WEBMAIL-MB19.sysops.aol.com> <2d5ffa0b0805161818v2e8ded0dv5b66bf8dd10a1e05@mail.gmail.com> <2d5ffa0b0805161841o18a80dd2g550f7680f0d0a5a5@mail.gmail.com> <8CA862EBA46EB01-11D8-2A45@WEBMAIL-MA04.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <8E11257A-936B-4E3F-931A-30FF95E4A8B6@ripon.edu> Well, I'm all for discussing poetry on this list, even bad poetry if need be. . . . For comic relief in a poetry workshop class I often read my students excerpts from McGonagal & others of that ilk. There are any number of Bad Poetry anthologies to choose from. My favorite is X. J. Kennedy's *Pegasus Descending: A Treasury of the Best Bad Poems in English*, probably out of print by now. McGonagal's featured, of course, along with Julia Moore & other primitives, one of the gems in that line being an ode to the I.U.D. penned by an Indian M.D. whose first language was evidently not English. An ode to a prize cheese in Toronto is close behind. . . . But just as much fun are the nodding moments of poets like Wordsworth & even Dickinson (who despite her fearsome love of her lexicon apparently did not know the colloquial meaning of the word "balls," to hilarious effect). Switching from Bad to Good, or at least to Seriously Mixed, has anyone else seen the just published new-and-selected from August Kleinzahler? (*Sleeping it Off in Rapid City*, from FSG). I've been a fan of Kleinzhaler since *Storm Over Hackensack*, way back when, and one thing that this new collection has reminded me is how uneven he is. Even in a selected edition he includes wonderful poems alongside incoherent blurts and tedious pretentiousness. Which is to say, on the positive side, he's a restless quester always willing, like William Carlos Williams, to try just about anything. Or, on the negative side, that he's hit-and-miss. He's even capable of a simple lyric like the following, which you know Kleinzhaler the reviewer would have ruthlessly skewered for sentimentality had it appeared, say, under the name Kooser in one of Garrison Keillor's anthologies: Portrait of My Mother in January Mother dozes in her chair, awakes a while and reads her book, then dozes off again. Wind makes a rush at the house and, like a tide, recedes. The trees are sere. Afternoons are the most difficult. They seem to have no end, no end and no one there. Outside the trees do their witchy dance. Mother grows smaller in her chair. Personally, I like this poem all right without going into any rapture over it. But it's interesting that this comes from the same poet who writes in so many other styles & tones. And there are poems in the "new" part of the book that I do think are "bad," by my lights, including a heartfelt elegy to Thom Gunn that is rather unfortunately cast as a song lyric "after Johnny Mercer." One streetcar, then two, disappearing from view A tortured dream The fog blowing in, cancelling all that had been Going street by street Like a cop on his beat Over the Great Salt Lake Yeah, I thought about you But when I pulled down the shade Man, I really got blue. . . . As Williams wrote to the young Ginsberg, "in this mode perfection is basic." Here's a poem by AK that I like, a longer narrative piece originally found in *The Strange Hours Travelers Keep*. Sorry if the italics & lineation get screwed up in transmission, but I'm too lazy to go in & put in a lot of asterisks and spaces: The Old Poet, Dying He looks eerily young, what's left of him, purged, somehow, back into boyhood. It is difficult not to watch the movie on TV at the foot of his bed, 40" color screen, a jailhouse dolly psychodrama: truncheons and dirty shower scenes. I recognize one of the actresses, now a famous lesbian, clearly an early B-movie role. The black nurse says "Oh dear" during the beatings. --TV in this town is crap, he says. His voice is very faint. He leans toward me, sliding further and further, until the nurse has to straighten him out, scolding him gently. He reaches out for my hand. The sudden intimacy rattles me. He is telling a story. Two, actually, and at some point they blend together. There are rivers and trains, Oxford and a town near Hamburg. Also, the night train to Milan and a lovely Italian breakfast. The river in Oxford-- he can't remember the name; but the birds and fritillaria in bloom ... He remembers the purple flowers and a plate of gingerbread cookies set out at one of the colleges. He gasps to remember those cookies. How surprised he must have been by the largesse, and hungry, too. --He's drifting in and out: I can hear the nurse on the phone from the other room. He has been remembering Europe for me. Exhausted, he lies quiet for a time. --There's nothing better than a good pee, he says and begins to fade. He seems very close to death. Perhaps in a moment, perhaps a week. Then awakes. Every patch of story, no matter how fuddled, resolves into a drollery. He will perish, I imagine, en route to a drollery. Although his poems, little kinetic snapshots of trees and light, so denuded of personality and delicately made that irony of any sort would stand out like a pile of steaming cow flop on a parquet floor. We are in a great metropolis that rises heroically from the American prairie: a baronial home, the finest of neighborhoods, its broad streets nearly empty on a Saturday afternoon, here and there a redbud in bloom. Even in health, a man so modest and soft-spoken as to be invisible among others, in a room of almost any size. It was, I think, a kind of hardship. --Have you met what's-his-name yet? he asks. You know who I mean, the big shot. --Yes, I tell him, I have. --You know that poem of his? Everyone knows that poem where he's sitting indoors by the fire and it's snowing outside and he suddenly feels a snowflake on his wrist? He pauses and begins to nod off. I remember now the name of the river he was after, the Cherwell, with its naked dons, The Parson's Pleasure. There's a fiercesome catfight on the TV, with blondie catching hell from the chicana. He comes round again and turns to me, leaning close, --Well, of course, he says, taking my hand, his eyes narrowing with malice and delight: --That's not going to be just any old snowflake, now, is it? --August Kleinzahler. The Strange Hours Travelers Keep. Farrar, Straus & Giroux, 2003. ======================================== David Graham grahamd@ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.mac.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080517/3fbdf104/attachment.html From bontasaurus at yahoo.com Sat May 17 11:39:43 2008 From: bontasaurus at yahoo.com (Dave Bonta) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:44 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: New-Poetry Digest, Vol 47, Issue 26 In-Reply-To: <200805171121.m4HBLgLr005867@wiz.cath.vt.edu> Message-ID: <916397.79574.qm@web30201.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Fortunately, the practice of kindness rarely depends upon having the right thoughts. *uguisu ya kuso shi nagara mo hokkekyoh* The bush warbler intones the Lotus Sutra even as it shits. - Kobayashi Issa > Ms. Baren misunderstands my original objections, assuming > that by "grammar & > rhetoric" I meant the sort of surface features > one's sixth grade teacher > corrects in red pen. But of course that's not what > I'm talking about at all, > but about empty grammatical forms put to specious > rhetorical uses. The > quotation that began this conversation is as bathetic as > the poem above. I'm > offended by this kind of language and the fact that it is > not howled down > even on a poetry discussion list is a mark of intellectual > decrepitude. No > doubt such sentiments will earn me the spit-flecked > epithets of "sir" and > (even more damning) "professor" again. So be it. > > jd > > On Sat, May 17, 2008 at 8:14 AM, > wrote: > > > I agree completely, Joseph. But it is important to > alert people to the > > danger of cults such as SGI. > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Joseph Duemer > > Sent: Fri, 16 May 2008 10:08 pm > > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] World's worst poet > > > > Teh stupid! Please make it stop! Buddhist > evangelicalism! And all this > > making nice in a poetic political correctness sort of > way? Let's call a cult > > a cult. My god, this is a depressing discussion. No > wonder nobody respects > > poets -- their brains have all turned to fucking mush. > The grammar & > > rhetoric of Ms. Baran's sentences in the posts > above are evidence enough for > > me to never credit anything she says. Complete > twaddle. Language matters. > > (Just an attempt to bring this thread into some sort > of relevance for a * > > poetry* discussion list.) > > > > jd > > > > > > > > -- > > Joseph Duemer > > Professor of Humanities > > Clarkson University > > Weblog: sharpsand.net Dave Bonta PO Box 68 Tyrone, PA 16686 814.684.3113 http://www.vianegativa.us From screwzbaran at gmail.com Sat May 17 11:43:17 2008 From: screwzbaran at gmail.com (Suzanne Baran) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:44 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] World's worst poet In-Reply-To: References: <2d5ffa0b0805161122y612a9191w402da7105fbf9aef@mail.gmail.com> <482E1978.1070304@opus40.org> <8CA85D25518D922-C8C-2A57@WEBMAIL-MB19.sysops.aol.com> <2d5ffa0b0805161818v2e8ded0dv5b66bf8dd10a1e05@mail.gmail.com> <2d5ffa0b0805161841o18a80dd2g550f7680f0d0a5a5@mail.gmail.com> <8CA862EBA46EB01-11D8-2A45@WEBMAIL-MA04.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <2d5ffa0b0805170843k77fb6fd5m4eb37d21f77d1e21@mail.gmail.com> At least I have the sense and common decency not to use the "F" word. Too bad you don't have any poetry worth reading. Your hollow words tear down others. How academic! On Sat, May 17, 2008 at 6:04 AM, Joseph Duemer wrote: > Funny, the original post led to a story about the "world's worst poet" & he > was pretty bad, but Daisaku Ikedagives William > McGonagall > serious > competition. Here is an excerpt from a poem called "Poetry": > > This rich fountain of the spirit I call the poetic heart > the poetic heart that is the source > of all human creativity > and power of imagination > It fashions the dreams > and daring and hopes of this earth > creates harmony and concord > It possesses a force no person whosoever can defy > It transforms the wasteland within us into a fertile plain > > Great poems trenchantly capture the truth > of that human life force > that blends with and beats in rhythm > with nature and the universe > They overflow with compassion > and feeling for all beings > They rouse and call forth the poetic heart in others > They bring out the flower and fragrance > in human nature > This I believe: restitution of the poetic heart means > nothing less than transforming the coming age > into the century of the human being! > > Ms. Baren misunderstands my original objections, assuming that by "grammar > & rhetoric" I meant the sort of surface features one's sixth grade teacher > corrects in red pen. But of course that's not what I'm talking about at all, > but about empty grammatical forms put to specious rhetorical uses. The > quotation that began this conversation is as bathetic as the poem above. I'm > offended by this kind of language and the fact that it is not howled down > even on a poetry discussion list is a mark of intellectual decrepitude. No > doubt such sentiments will earn me the spit-flecked epithets of "sir" and > (even more damning) "professor" again. So be it. > > jd > > > On Sat, May 17, 2008 at 8:14 AM, wrote: > >> I agree completely, Joseph. But it is important to alert people to the >> danger of cults such as SGI. >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Joseph Duemer >> Sent: Fri, 16 May 2008 10:08 pm >> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] World's worst poet >> >> Teh stupid! Please make it stop! Buddhist evangelicalism! And all this >> making nice in a poetic political correctness sort of way? Let's call a cult >> a cult. My god, this is a depressing discussion. No wonder nobody respects >> poets -- their brains have all turned to fucking mush. The grammar & >> rhetoric of Ms. Baran's sentences in the posts above are evidence enough for >> me to never credit anything she says. Complete twaddle. Language matters. >> (Just an attempt to bring this thread into some sort of relevance for a * >> poetry* discussion list.) >> >> jd >> >> >> >> -- >> Joseph Duemer >> Professor of Humanities >> Clarkson University >> Weblog: sharpsand.net >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing listNew-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.eduhttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> ------------------------------ >> Plan your next roadtrip with MapQuest.com: >> America's #1 Mapping Site. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > > > -- > Joseph Duemer > Professor of Humanities > Clarkson University > Weblog: sharpsand.net > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- "Who is truly great? I hope you can develop the ability to discern true human greatness. A great person is someone who forges unity among human beings through sincere dialogue, armed with a solid philosophy, feet firmly planted on the ground. A great person is one who lives among the people and earns their unshakable trust. Fickle popularity and temporary fads are nothing but illusions." Daily Encouragement - Daisaku Ikeda -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080517/fd2aa8d4/attachment.html From JforJames at aol.com Sat May 17 12:04:29 2008 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames@aol.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:44 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] World's worst poet Message-ID: I don't think it's necessary to howl down a poem such as Ikeda's. It's not my thing...but is it that far from Tagore (as we find him English)? The sentiments are not objectionable even if the delivery is too pat and too flat. Besides this is not the kind of poetry one should waste sharp criticism on. Criticism is really a function of the literary realm and this poetry is not part of that grand game. This is extra-literary poetry. They say a dialect is a language with an army. Then perhaps a religion is a cult with an army. My first encounter with SGI was yesterday. I think many 'cults' are rather benign and serve a social function, sweeping up drifting souls and directing their lives toward moderation and self-sufficiency, with a dollop of spiritual pap to sustain those who hunger for such. The Krishnas annoy, but they don't seem to be of any harm. And the word cult could cover the Black Muslim movement, could it not? It could cover the Masons and secret fraternaties like the Skull & Bones which our fearless leader and other Yalies have joined. It's not all Jim Jones or gas attacks on Tokyo subway trains. Has anyone read the biography of Mishima? The writer who began a cult of ultrapatriotism. There does seem be an encultured tendency among the Japanese to join with the full force of their psyches. Thinking of those battles in the Pacific during WWII. I couldn't put down EB Sledge's _With theOld Breed at Pelalu_ when I found it on my father-in-law's bookcase after he died two years ago. Finnegan In a message dated 5/17/2008 9:04:33 AM Eastern Daylight Time, duemer@gmail.com writes: Funny, the original post led to a story about the "world's worst poet" & he was pretty bad, but _Daisaku Ikeda_ (http://www.sgi.org/about/president/works/exhibit.html) gives _William McGonagall _ (http://real-us.news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20080516/ennew_afp/entertainmentbritainpoetryauction) serious competition. Here is an excerpt from a poem called "Poetry": This rich fountain of the spirit I call the poetic heart the poetic heart that is the source of all human creativity and power of imagination It fashions the dreams and daring and hopes of this earth creates harmony and concord It possesses a force no person whosoever can defy It transforms the wasteland within us into a fertile plain Great poems trenchantly capture the truth of that human life force that blends with and beats in rhythm with nature and the universe They overflow with compassion and feeling for all beings They rouse and call forth the poetic heart in others They bring out the flower and fragrance in human nature This I believe: restitution of the poetic heart means nothing less than transforming the coming age into the century of the human being! Ms. Baren misunderstands my original objections, assuming that by "grammar & rhetoric" I meant the sort of surface features one's sixth grade teacher corrects in red pen. But of course that's not what I'm talking about at all, but about empty grammatical forms put to specious rhetorical uses. The quotation that began this conversation is as bathetic as the poem above. I'm offended by this kind of language and the fact that it is not howled down even on a poetry discussion list is a mark of intellectual decrepitude. No doubt such sentiments will earn me the spit-flecked epithets of "sir" and (even more damning) "professor" again. So be it. jd On Sat, May 17, 2008 at 8:14 AM, <_shin02143@aol.com_ (mailto:shin02143@aol.com) > wrote: I agree completely, Joseph. But it is important to alert people to the danger of cults such as SGI. -----Original Message----- From: Joseph Duemer <_duemer@gmail.com_ (mailto:duemer@gmail.com) > Sent: Fri, 16 May 2008 10:08 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] World's worst poet Teh stupid! Please make it stop! Buddhist evangelicalism! And all this making nice in a poetic political correctness sort of way? Let's call a cult a cult. My god, this is a depressing discussion. No wonder nobody respects poets -- their brains have all turned to fucking mush. The grammar & rhetoric of Ms. Baran's sentences in the posts above are evidence enough for me to never credit anything she says. Complete twaddle. Language matters. (Just an attempt to bring this thread into some sort of relevance for a poetry discussion list.) **************Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family favorites at AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/dinner-tonight?NCID=aolfod00030000000001) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080517/7cbb31e7/attachment.html From JforJames at aol.com Sat May 17 12:22:55 2008 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames@aol.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:44 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] World's worst poet Message-ID: In a message dated 5/17/2008 12:05:11 PM Eastern Daylight Time, JforJames@aol.com writes: They say a dialect is a language with an army That's reversed, of course, a language is a dialect with an army. Mea culprit. Finnegan **************Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family favorites at AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/dinner-tonight?NCID=aolfod00030000000001) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080517/33402330/attachment.html From anny.ballardini at tin.it Sat May 17 12:55:52 2008 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:45 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] World's worst poet In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <24270AA0AEC642219CBB4FE47BA3E18E@AnnyPC> Maybe more effective the other way round, once you got to it. ----- Original Message ----- From: JforJames@aol.com To: new-poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Saturday, May 17, 2008 6:22 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] World's worst poet In a message dated 5/17/2008 12:05:11 PM Eastern Daylight Time, JforJames@aol.com writes: They say a dialect is a language with an army That's reversed, of course, a language is a dialect with an army. Mea culprit. Finnegan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080517/8288a374/attachment.html From JforJames at aol.com Sat May 17 12:58:14 2008 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames@aol.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:45 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Belieu reviews Share Message-ID: _http://bostonreview.net/BR33.3/belieu.php_ (http://bostonreview.net/BR33.3/belieu.php) MAY/JUNE 2008 The Writing Cure Don Share's Squandermania Erin Belieu Given the puzzling hostility directed at Plath's work in recent years by some prominent critics, it's particularly heartening to read a male poet who knows better than to throw the lady out with the bathwater. **************Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family favorites at AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/dinner-tonight?NCID=aolfod00030000000001) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080517/0d5b291f/attachment.html From duemer at gmail.com Sat May 17 13:08:30 2008 From: duemer at gmail.com (Joseph Duemer) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:45 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] World's worst poet In-Reply-To: <24270AA0AEC642219CBB4FE47BA3E18E@AnnyPC> References: <24270AA0AEC642219CBB4FE47BA3E18E@AnnyPC> Message-ID: "Too bad you don't have any poetry worth reading." Right. jd On Sat, May 17, 2008 at 12:55 PM, Anny Ballardini wrote: > Maybe more effective the other way round, once you got to it. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* JforJames@aol.com > *To:* new-poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > *Sent:* Saturday, May 17, 2008 6:22 PM > *Subject:* Re: [New-Poetry] World's worst poet > > In a message dated 5/17/2008 12:05:11 PM Eastern Daylight Time, > JforJames@aol.com writes: > > They say a dialect is a language with an army > > That's reversed, of course, a language is a dialect with an army. > Mea culprit. > Finnegan > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Joseph Duemer Professor of Humanities Clarkson University Weblog: sharpsand.net -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080517/8c7fd976/attachment.html From david.bircumshaw at ntlworld.com Sat May 17 13:12:49 2008 From: david.bircumshaw at ntlworld.com (David Bircumshaw) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:45 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] World's worst poet In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <482F1211.6000006@ntlworld.com> I think it's quite amusing that the lamentable McGonagall, pelted with tomatoes in life and laughed at still in death, has inadvertently provoked such a long and argumentative thread, with barely a mention of his flatfooted Musings included. 'Twas ever thus, O Sage of Tay. I do believe one of the before-mentioned Spasmodics was a kind of poetical mentor to him. I object, though, to Daisaku Ikeda's anodyne null-poetry being suggested as competition for McGonagall's crown of donkey's ears, Dundee's greatest poet +aspires+ to the heights of incompetence, he suffered for his lack of art, by his eternal mediocrity we are at last reminded what good poetry is supposed to be, it's no wonder his star is on the increase in an age unpoets and their negations of language are feted, when critics who can barely write a paragraph of comprehensible English are made lawgivers of taste, he alone still sets a standard by which all others can be judged, in him the sanctity of the Author is restored, all sincerity is returned to verse, no-one, no-one could have written so badly and have ruined their life for it without having meant every word, honours he disdained and the world's false gee-gaws contemned, and all the would-be managers of culture and minds he confutes and thwarts. -- David Bircumshaw Website and A Chide's Alphabet http://homepage.ntlworld.com/david.bircumshaw/ The Animal Subsides http://www.arrowheadpress.co.uk/books/animal.html Leicester Poetry Society: http://www.poetryleicester.co.uk From mycueed at yahoo.com Sat May 17 14:10:20 2008 From: mycueed at yahoo.com (edward mycue) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:45 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] World's worst poet from edward mycue In-Reply-To: <2d5ffa0b0805170843k77fb6fd5m4eb37d21f77d1e21@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <899048.36049.qm@web57704.mail.re3.yahoo.com> i missed the "f" word referred to. "the 'f' word" generally in my world means "fuck". i haven't been following this conversation closely; i just joined this newpoetry site. i went back and looked at posts identified as coming from joseph and failed to locate that word. edward mycue p.s. if i find it, what shall i infer? Suzanne Baran wrote: At least I have the sense and common decency not to use the "F" word. Too bad you don't have any poetry worth reading. Your hollow words tear down others. How academic! On Sat, May 17, 2008 at 6:04 AM, Joseph Duemer wrote: Funny, the original post led to a story about the "world's worst poet" & he was pretty bad, but Daisaku Ikeda gives William McGonagall serious competition. Here is an excerpt from a poem called "Poetry": This rich fountain of the spirit I call the poetic heart the poetic heart that is the source of all human creativity and power of imagination It fashions the dreams and daring and hopes of this earth creates harmony and concord It possesses a force no person whosoever can defy It transforms the wasteland within us into a fertile plain Great poems trenchantly capture the truth of that human life force that blends with and beats in rhythm with nature and the universe They overflow with compassion and feeling for all beings They rouse and call forth the poetic heart in others They bring out the flower and fragrance in human nature This I believe: restitution of the poetic heart means nothing less than transforming the coming age into the century of the human being! Ms. Baren misunderstands my original objections, assuming that by "grammar & rhetoric" I meant the sort of surface features one's sixth grade teacher corrects in red pen. But of course that's not what I'm talking about at all, but about empty grammatical forms put to specious rhetorical uses. The quotation that began this conversation is as bathetic as the poem above. I'm offended by this kind of language and the fact that it is not howled down even on a poetry discussion list is a mark of intellectual decrepitude. No doubt such sentiments will earn me the spit-flecked epithets of "sir" and (even more damning) "professor" again. So be it. jd On Sat, May 17, 2008 at 8:14 AM, wrote: I agree completely, Joseph. But it is important to alert people to the danger of cults such as SGI. -----Original Message----- From: Joseph Duemer Sent: Fri, 16 May 2008 10:08 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] World's worst poet Teh stupid! Please make it stop! Buddhist evangelicalism! And all this making nice in a poetic political correctness sort of way? Let's call a cult a cult. My god, this is a depressing discussion. No wonder nobody respects poets -- their brains have all turned to fucking mush. The grammar & rhetoric of Ms. Baran's sentences in the posts above are evidence enough for me to never credit anything she says. Complete twaddle. Language matters. (Just an attempt to bring this thread into some sort of relevance for a poetry discussion list.) jd -- Joseph Duemer Professor of Humanities Clarkson University Weblog: sharpsand.net _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry --------------------------------- Plan your next roadtrip with MapQuest.com: America's #1 Mapping Site. _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -- Joseph Duemer Professor of Humanities Clarkson University Weblog: sharpsand.net _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -- "Who is truly great? I hope you can develop the ability to discern true human greatness. A great person is someone who forges unity among human beings through sincere dialogue, armed with a solid philosophy, feet firmly planted on the ground. A great person is one who lives among the people and earns their unshakable trust. Fickle popularity and temporary fads are nothing but illusions." Daily Encouragement - Daisaku Ikeda _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080517/b46e38fc/attachment.html From screwzbaran at gmail.com Sat May 17 14:16:16 2008 From: screwzbaran at gmail.com (Suzanne Baran) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:45 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] World's worst poet from edward mycue In-Reply-To: <899048.36049.qm@web57704.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <2d5ffa0b0805170843k77fb6fd5m4eb37d21f77d1e21@mail.gmail.com> <899048.36049.qm@web57704.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <2d5ffa0b0805171116r3121ddaag26131b9b86e463b@mail.gmail.com> "Teh stupid! Please make it stop! Buddhist evangelicalism! And all this making nice in a poetic political correctness sort of way? Let's call a cult a cult. My god, this is a depressing discussion. No wonder nobody respects poets -- their brains have all turned to *fucking* mush. The grammar & rhetoric of Ms. Baran's sentences in the posts above are evidence enough for me to never credit anything she says. Complete twaddle. Language matters. (Just an attempt to bring this thread into some sort of relevance for a * poetry* discussion list.)" jd On Sat, May 17, 2008 at 11:10 AM, edward mycue wrote: > i missed the "f" word referred to. "the 'f' word" generally in my world > means "fuck". i haven't been following this conversation closely; i just > joined this newpoetry site. i went back and looked at posts identified as > coming from joseph > and failed to locate that word. edward mycue > p.s. if i find it, what shall i infer? > *Suzanne Baran * wrote: > > At least I have the sense and common decency not to use the "F" word. Too > bad you don't have any poetry worth reading. Your hollow words tear down > others. How academic! > > On Sat, May 17, 2008 at 6:04 AM, Joseph Duemer wrote: > >> Funny, the original post led to a story about the "world's worst poet" & >> he was pretty bad, but Daisaku Ikedagives William >> McGonagall >> serious >> competition. Here is an excerpt from a poem called "Poetry": >> >> This rich fountain of the spirit I call the poetic heart >> the poetic heart that is the source >> of all human creativity >> and power of imagination >> It fashions the dreams >> and daring and hopes of this earth >> creates harmony and concord >> It possesses a force no person whosoever can defy >> It transforms the wasteland within us into a fertile plain >> >> Great poems trenchantly capture the truth >> of that human life force >> that blends with and beats in rhythm >> with nature and the universe >> They overflow with compassion >> and feeling for all beings >> They rouse and call forth the poetic heart in others >> They bring out the flower and fragrance >> in human nature >> This I believe: restitution of the poetic heart means >> nothing less than transforming the coming age >> into the century of the human being! >> >> Ms. Baren misunderstands my original objections, assuming that by "grammar >> & rhetoric" I meant the sort of surface features one's sixth grade teacher >> corrects in red pen. But of course that's not what I'm talking about at all, >> but about empty grammatical forms put to specious rhetorical uses. The >> quotation that began this conversation is as bathetic as the poem above. I'm >> offended by this kind of language and the fact that it is not howled down >> even on a poetry discussion list is a mark of intellectual decrepitude. No >> doubt such sentiments will earn me the spit-flecked epithets of "sir" and >> (even more damning) "professor" again. So be it. >> >> jd >> >> >> On Sat, May 17, 2008 at 8:14 AM, wrote: >> >>> I agree completely, Joseph. But it is important to alert people to the >>> danger of cults such as SGI. >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Joseph Duemer >>> Sent: Fri, 16 May 2008 10:08 pm >>> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] World's worst poet >>> >>> Teh stupid! Please make it stop! Buddhist evangelicalism! And all this >>> making nice in a poetic political correctness sort of way? Let's call a cult >>> a cult. My god, this is a depressing discussion. No wonder nobody respects >>> poets -- their brains have all turned to fucking mush. The grammar & >>> rhetoric of Ms. Baran's sentences in the posts above are evidence enough for >>> me to never credit anything she says. Complete twaddle. Language matters. >>> (Just an attempt to bring this thread into some sort of relevance for a >>> *poetry* discussion list.) >>> >>> jd >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Joseph Duemer >>> Professor of Humanities >>> Clarkson University >>> Weblog: sharpsand.net >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> New-Poetry mailing list >>> New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu >>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>> >>> ------------------------------ >>> Plan your next roadtrip with MapQuest.com: >>> America's #1 Mapping Site. >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> New-Poetry mailing list >>> New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu >>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>> >>> >> >> >> -- >> Joseph Duemer >> Professor of Humanities >> Clarkson University >> Weblog: sharpsand.net >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > > > -- > "Who is truly great? I hope you can develop the ability to discern true > human greatness. A great person is someone who forges unity among human > beings through sincere dialogue, armed with a solid philosophy, feet firmly > planted on the ground. A great person is one who lives among the people and > earns their unshakable trust. Fickle popularity and temporary fads are > nothing but illusions." > > Daily Encouragement - Daisaku Ikeda > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- "Who is truly great? I hope you can develop the ability to discern true human greatness. A great person is someone who forges unity among human beings through sincere dialogue, armed with a solid philosophy, feet firmly planted on the ground. A great person is one who lives among the people and earns their unshakable trust. Fickle popularity and temporary fads are nothing but illusions." Daily Encouragement - Daisaku Ikeda -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080517/9c3a7fb6/attachment.html From anny.ballardini at tin.it Sat May 17 14:19:38 2008 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:45 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] The Crossing by Cormac McCarthy Message-ID: <25D0F7D2A0714A0EBD6F41495D62ED81@AnnyPC> Then the women packed for him a dinner of some dried and leathern meat or machaca and parched corn and sootstained tortillas and an old man came forward and addressed him in a spanish he could scarcely understand, speaking with great earnestness into the boy's eyes and holding his saddle fore and aft so that the boy sat almost in his arms. He was dressed in odd and garish fashion and his clothes were embroidered with signs that had about them the geometric look of instructions, perhaps a game. He wore jewelry of jade and silver and his hair was long and blacker than his age would seem to warrant. He told the boy that although he was hu?rfano still he must cease his wanderings and make for himself some place in the world because to wander in this way would become for him a passion and by this passion he would become estranged from men and so ultimately from himself. He said that the world could only be known as it existed in men's hearts. For while it seemed a place which contained men it was in reality a place contained within them and therefore to know it one must look there and come to know those hearts and to do this one must live with men and not simply pass among them. He said that while the hu?rfano might feel that he no longer belonged among men he must set this feeling aside for he contained within him a largeness of spirit which men could see and that men would wish to know him and that the world would need him even as he needed the world for they were one. Lastly he said that while this itself was a good thing like all good things it was also a danger. Then he removed his hands from the boy's saddle and stepped away and stood. The boy thanked him for his words but he said that he was in fact not an orphan and then he thanked the women standing there and turned the horse and rode out. They stood watching him go. As he passed the last of the brush wickiups he turned and looked back and as he did so the old man called out to him. Eres, he said. Eres hu?rfano. But the boy only raised one hand and touched his hat and rode on. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080517/49665ecc/attachment.html From grahamd at ripon.edu Sat May 17 14:22:57 2008 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:45 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Kleinzahler Message-ID: So, anyone feel like discussing August Kleinzahler? Just wondering. ======================================== David Graham grahamd@ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.mac.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080517/f1a47d5f/attachment.html From screwzbaran at gmail.com Sat May 17 14:26:18 2008 From: screwzbaran at gmail.com (Suzanne Baran) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:45 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Kleinzahler In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2d5ffa0b0805171126g73e017eanb4e536465eb6ada2@mail.gmail.com> http://bostonreview.net/BR24.2/broaddus.html On Sat, May 17, 2008 at 11:22 AM, David Graham wrote: > So, anyone feel like discussing August Kleinzahler? Just wondering. > > > > ======================================== > David Graham > grahamd@ripon.edu > > Home Page: > http://web.mac.com/drjazz > > Poetry Library: > http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html > ========================================== > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- "Who is truly great? I hope you can develop the ability to discern true human greatness. A great person is someone who forges unity among human beings through sincere dialogue, armed with a solid philosophy, feet firmly planted on the ground. A great person is one who lives among the people and earns their unshakable trust. Fickle popularity and temporary fads are nothing but illusions." Daily Encouragement - Daisaku Ikeda -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080517/9e119111/attachment.html From anny.ballardini at tin.it Sat May 17 14:29:18 2008 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:45 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetry--Good, Bad, & Kleinzahler In-Reply-To: <8E11257A-936B-4E3F-931A-30FF95E4A8B6@ripon.edu> References: <2d5ffa0b0805161122y612a9191w402da7105fbf9aef@mail.gmail.com><482E1C67.4010405@nut-n-but.net> <482E1978.1070304@opus40.org><8CA85D25518D922-C8C-2A57@WEBMAIL-MB19.sysops.aol.com><2d5ffa0b0805161818v2e8ded0dv5b66bf8dd10a1e05@mail.gmail.com><2d5ffa0b0805161841o18a80dd2g550f7680f0d0a5a5@mail.gmail.com><8CA862EBA46EB01-11D8-2A45@WEBMAIL-MA04.sysops.aol.com> <8E11257A-936B-4E3F-931A-30FF95E4A8B6@ripon.edu> Message-ID: <7A691B430CD141A0A30C98F99C3AFB12@AnnyPC> As you say, Portrait of My Mother in January, the sentimental it is, it anyhow sticks with you, maybe because it has some sort of essential quality to it. The Old Poet Dying is a perfected artwork - artword: He pauses and begins to nod off. I remember now the name of the river he was after, the Cherwell, with its naked dons, The Parson's Pleasure. There's a fiercesome catfight on the TV, with blondie catching hell from the chicana. He comes round again and turns to me, leaning close, --Well, of course, he says, taking my hand, his eyes narrowing with malice and delight: --That's not going to be just any old snowflake, now, is it? As you know David, everybody understands whatever they want to understand, and my understanding of this final passage is just a sublime description of how poetry works. Thank you. And all the Italics passed through. ----- Original Message ----- From: David Graham To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views Sent: Saturday, May 17, 2008 4:01 PM Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetry--Good, Bad, & Kleinzahler Well, I'm all for discussing poetry on this list, even bad poetry if need be. . . . For comic relief in a poetry workshop class I often read my students excerpts from McGonagal & others of that ilk. There are any number of Bad Poetry anthologies to choose from. My favorite is X. J. Kennedy's *Pegasus Descending: A Treasury of the Best Bad Poems in English*, probably out of print by now. McGonagal's featured, of course, along with Julia Moore & other primitives, one of the gems in that line being an ode to the I.U.D. penned by an Indian M.D. whose first language was evidently not English. An ode to a prize cheese in Toronto is close behind. . . . But just as much fun are the nodding moments of poets like Wordsworth & even Dickinson (who despite her fearsome love of her lexicon apparently did not know the colloquial meaning of the word "balls," to hilarious effect). Switching from Bad to Good, or at least to Seriously Mixed, has anyone else seen the just published new-and-selected from August Kleinzahler? (*Sleeping it Off in Rapid City*, from FSG). I've been a fan of Kleinzhaler since *Storm Over Hackensack*, way back when, and one thing that this new collection has reminded me is how uneven he is. Even in a selected edition he includes wonderful poems alongside incoherent blurts and tedious pretentiousness. Which is to say, on the positive side, he's a restless quester always willing, like William Carlos Williams, to try just about anything. Or, on the negative side, that he's hit-and-miss. He's even capable of a simple lyric like the following, which you know Kleinzhaler the reviewer would have ruthlessly skewered for sentimentality had it appeared, say, under the name Kooser in one of Garrison Keillor's anthologies: Portrait of My Mother in January Mother dozes in her chair, awakes a while and reads her book, then dozes off again. Wind makes a rush at the house and, like a tide, recedes. The trees are sere. Afternoons are the most difficult. They seem to have no end, no end and no one there. Outside the trees do their witchy dance. Mother grows smaller in her chair. Personally, I like this poem all right without going into any rapture over it. But it's interesting that this comes from the same poet who writes in so many other styles & tones. And there are poems in the "new" part of the book that I do think are "bad," by my lights, including a heartfelt elegy to Thom Gunn that is rather unfortunately cast as a song lyric "after Johnny Mercer." One streetcar, then two, disappearing from view A tortured dream The fog blowing in, cancelling all that had been Going street by street Like a cop on his beat Over the Great Salt Lake Yeah, I thought about you But when I pulled down the shade Man, I really got blue. . . . As Williams wrote to the young Ginsberg, "in this mode perfection is basic." Here's a poem by AK that I like, a longer narrative piece originally found in *The Strange Hours Travelers Keep*. Sorry if the italics & lineation get screwed up in transmission, but I'm too lazy to go in & put in a lot of asterisks and spaces: The Old Poet, Dying He looks eerily young, what's left of him, purged, somehow, back into boyhood. It is difficult not to watch the movie on TV at the foot of his bed, 40" color screen, a jailhouse dolly psychodrama: truncheons and dirty shower scenes. I recognize one of the actresses, now a famous lesbian, clearly an early B-movie role. The black nurse says "Oh dear" during the beatings. --TV in this town is crap, he says. His voice is very faint. He leans toward me, sliding further and further, until the nurse has to straighten him out, scolding him gently. He reaches out for my hand. The sudden intimacy rattles me. He is telling a story. Two, actually, and at some point they blend together. There are rivers and trains, Oxford and a town near Hamburg. Also, the night train to Milan and a lovely Italian breakfast. The river in Oxford-- he can't remember the name; but the birds and fritillaria in bloom ... He remembers the purple flowers and a plate of gingerbread cookies set out at one of the colleges. He gasps to remember those cookies. How surprised he must have been by the largesse, and hungry, too. --He's drifting in and out: I can hear the nurse on the phone from the other room. He has been remembering Europe for me. Exhausted, he lies quiet for a time. --There's nothing better than a good pee, he says and begins to fade. He seems very close to death. Perhaps in a moment, perhaps a week. Then awakes. Every patch of story, no matter how fuddled, resolves into a drollery. He will perish, I imagine, en route to a drollery. Although his poems, little kinetic snapshots of trees and light, so denuded of personality and delicately made that irony of any sort would stand out like a pile of steaming cow flop on a parquet floor. We are in a great metropolis that rises heroically from the American prairie: a baronial home, the finest of neighborhoods, its broad streets nearly empty on a Saturday afternoon, here and there a redbud in bloom. Even in health, a man so modest and soft-spoken as to be invisible among others, in a room of almost any size. It was, I think, a kind of hardship. --Have you met what's-his-name yet? he asks. You know who I mean, the big shot. --Yes, I tell him, I have. --You know that poem of his? Everyone knows that poem where he's sitting indoors by the fire and it's snowing outside and he suddenly feels a snowflake on his wrist? He pauses and begins to nod off. I remember now the name of the river he was after, the Cherwell, with its naked dons, The Parson's Pleasure. There's a fiercesome catfight on the TV, with blondie catching hell from the chicana. He comes round again and turns to me, leaning close, --Well, of course, he says, taking my hand, his eyes narrowing with malice and delight: --That's not going to be just any old snowflake, now, is it? --August Kleinzahler. The Strange Hours Travelers Keep. Farrar, Straus & Giroux, 2003. ======================================== David Graham grahamd@ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.mac.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.16/1448 - Release Date: 5/16/2008 7:42 PM -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080517/23edaf55/attachment.html From mycueed at yahoo.com Sat May 17 16:34:04 2008 From: mycueed at yahoo.com (edward mycue) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:46 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] World's worst poet from edward mycue In-Reply-To: <2d5ffa0b0805171116r3121ddaag26131b9b86e463b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <631012.60478.qm@web57712.mail.re3.yahoo.com> dear suzanne baran, ah, now i see the phrase you object to that you have highlighted ("...fucking mush....") in joseph duemer's response to this whole glossolalia of nonsense. . but don't you see also that by jumping onto his wording that you are engaging in dissembling? you are attempting changing the focus of what the arguement is about by resorting to what amounts to an ad hominem distraction. this is especially odd since your email moniker is written as screwzbaran@gmail.com. "screwz" alone might refer to crazy or screwball or screwing, the latter another term for "fucking"--and both these latter often called "bad" words even though i don't think of it that way. what is going on here? it doesn't seem to be a purposeful put-on. sincerely, edward mycue Suzanne Baran wrote: "Teh stupid! Please make it stop! Buddhist evangelicalism! And all this making nice in a poetic political correctness sort of way? Let's call a cult a cult. My god, this is a depressing discussion. No wonder nobody respects poets -- their brains have all turned to fucking mush. The grammar & rhetoric of Ms. Baran's sentences in the posts above are evidence enough for me to never credit anything she says. Complete twaddle. Language matters. (Just an attempt to bring this thread into some sort of relevance for a poetry discussion list.)" jd On Sat, May 17, 2008 at 11:10 AM, edward mycue wrote: i missed the "f" word referred to. "the 'f' word" generally in my world means "fuck". i haven't been following this conversation closely; i just joined this newpoetry site. i went back and looked at posts identified as coming from joseph and failed to locate that word. edward mycue p.s. if i find it, what shall i infer? Suzanne Baran wrote: At least I have the sense and common decency not to use the "F" word. Too bad you don't have any poetry worth reading. Your hollow words tear down others. How academic! On Sat, May 17, 2008 at 6:04 AM, Joseph Duemer wrote: Funny, the original post led to a story about the "world's worst poet" & he was pretty bad, but Daisaku Ikeda gives William McGonagall serious competition. Here is an excerpt from a poem called "Poetry": This rich fountain of the spirit I call the poetic heart the poetic heart that is the source of all human creativity and power of imagination It fashions the dreams and daring and hopes of this earth creates harmony and concord It possesses a force no person whosoever can defy It transforms the wasteland within us into a fertile plain Great poems trenchantly capture the truth of that human life force that blends with and beats in rhythm with nature and the universe They overflow with compassion and feeling for all beings They rouse and call forth the poetic heart in others They bring out the flower and fragrance in human nature This I believe: restitution of the poetic heart means nothing less than transforming the coming age into the century of the human being! Ms. Baren misunderstands my original objections, assuming that by "grammar & rhetoric" I meant the sort of surface features one's sixth grade teacher corrects in red pen. But of course that's not what I'm talking about at all, but about empty grammatical forms put to specious rhetorical uses. The quotation that began this conversation is as bathetic as the poem above. I'm offended by this kind of language and the fact that it is not howled down even on a poetry discussion list is a mark of intellectual decrepitude. No doubt such sentiments will earn me the spit-flecked epithets of "sir" and (even more damning) "professor" again. So be it. jd On Sat, May 17, 2008 at 8:14 AM, wrote: I agree completely, Joseph. But it is important to alert people to the danger of cults such as SGI. -----Original Message----- From: Joseph Duemer Sent: Fri, 16 May 2008 10:08 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] World's worst poet Teh stupid! Please make it stop! Buddhist evangelicalism! And all this making nice in a poetic political correctness sort of way? Let's call a cult a cult. My god, this is a depressing discussion. No wonder nobody respects poets -- their brains have all turned to fucking mush. The grammar & rhetoric of Ms. Baran's sentences in the posts above are evidence enough for me to never credit anything she says. Complete twaddle. Language matters. (Just an attempt to bring this thread into some sort of relevance for a poetry discussion list.) jd -- Joseph Duemer Professor of Humanities Clarkson University Weblog: sharpsand.net _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry --------------------------------- Plan your next roadtrip with MapQuest.com: America's #1 Mapping Site. _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -- Joseph Duemer Professor of Humanities Clarkson University Weblog: sharpsand.net _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -- "Who is truly great? I hope you can develop the ability to discern true human greatness. A great person is someone who forges unity among human beings through sincere dialogue, armed with a solid philosophy, feet firmly planted on the ground. A great person is one who lives among the people and earns their unshakable trust. Fickle popularity and temporary fads are nothing but illusions." Daily Encouragement - Daisaku Ikeda _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -- "Who is truly great? I hope you can develop the ability to discern true human greatness. A great person is someone who forges unity among human beings through sincere dialogue, armed with a solid philosophy, feet firmly planted on the ground. A great person is one who lives among the people and earns their unshakable trust. Fickle popularity and temporary fads are nothing but illusions." Daily Encouragement - Daisaku Ikeda _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080517/50f7d087/attachment.html From anny.ballardini at tin.it Sat May 17 16:51:01 2008 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:46 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] oh obama Message-ID: <227E0359B741417B88282459559A54FF@AnnyPC> http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/18/us/politics/18memoirs.html?_r=1&hp&oref=slogin Barack Obama has packaged his life story into two hugely successful books that have made him a best-selling millionaire. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080517/7649f5ec/attachment.html From screwzbaran at gmail.com Sat May 17 17:02:30 2008 From: screwzbaran at gmail.com (Suzanne Baran) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:46 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] World's worst poet from edward mycue In-Reply-To: <631012.60478.qm@web57712.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <2d5ffa0b0805171116r3121ddaag26131b9b86e463b@mail.gmail.com> <631012.60478.qm@web57712.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <2d5ffa0b0805171402h3c8766f5jf7d3077b53826cc1@mail.gmail.com> This is my last attempt to respond to this thread. My email is a nickname, a bastardization of my name, Suzanne. Insert jokes here___. I no longer wish to engage in acrimonious discussions about the SGI, Buddhism, Daisaku Ikeda (UN Peace Ambassador). I was simply trying to defend personal attacks on my Buddhist practice, my character, and other matters not relating to poetry. I think I provided enough entertainment and discussion fodder. Glad I could amuse you all. Edward, I was simply keeping you abreast of the comments made by a certain list member -- since you asked for evidence of the "F word." I have never met this person, and he has insulted me a few times. [When you point a finger at another, three point back at you...insert hackneyed remarks here_________.] Despite our harsh words, I wish Joseph well. He's bright and opinionated. I was wrong to forward his remarks. I also regret upsetting anyone on this list. As for purposeful put-ons, perhaps you needn't jump into discussions to call attention to what you render the "whole glossolalia of nonsense." A lesson to us all, The ever-unpopular Suzanne On Sat, May 17, 2008 at 1:34 PM, edward mycue wrote: > dear suzanne baran, > > ah, now i see the phrase you object to that you have highlighted > ("...fucking mush....") in joseph duemer's response to this whole > glossolalia of nonsense. . > > but don't you see also that by jumping onto his wording that you are > engaging in dissembling? you are attempting changing the focus of what the > arguement is about by resorting to what amounts to an ad hominem > distraction. > > this is especially odd since your email moniker is written as > screwzbaran@gmail.com. "screwz" alone might refer to crazy or screwball > or screwing, the latter another term for "fucking"--and both these latter > often called "bad" words even though i don't think of it that way. > > what is going on here? it doesn't seem to be a purposeful put-on. > > sincerely, edward mycue > > > > *Suzanne Baran * wrote: > > "Teh stupid! Please make it stop! Buddhist evangelicalism! And all this > making nice in a poetic political correctness sort of way? Let's call a cult > a cult. My god, this is a depressing discussion. No wonder nobody respects > poets -- their brains have all turned to *fucking* mush. The grammar & > rhetoric of Ms. Baran's sentences in the posts above are evidence enough for > me to never credit anything she says. Complete twaddle. Language matters. > (Just an attempt to bring this thread into some sort of relevance for a * > poetry* discussion list.)" > > jd > > > > On Sat, May 17, 2008 at 11:10 AM, edward mycue wrote: > >> i missed the "f" word referred to. "the 'f' word" generally in my world >> means "fuck". i haven't been following this conversation closely; i just >> joined this newpoetry site. i went back and looked at posts identified as >> coming from joseph >> and failed to locate that word. edward mycue >> p.s. if i find it, what shall i infer? >> *Suzanne Baran * wrote: >> >> At least I have the sense and common decency not to use the "F" word. Too >> bad you don't have any poetry worth reading. Your hollow words tear down >> others. How academic! >> >> On Sat, May 17, 2008 at 6:04 AM, Joseph Duemer wrote: >> >>> Funny, the original post led to a story about the "world's worst poet" & >>> he was pretty bad, but Daisaku Ikedagives William >>> McGonagall >>> serious >>> competition. Here is an excerpt from a poem called "Poetry": >>> >>> This rich fountain of the spirit I call the poetic heart >>> the poetic heart that is the source >>> of all human creativity >>> and power of imagination >>> It fashions the dreams >>> and daring and hopes of this earth >>> creates harmony and concord >>> It possesses a force no person whosoever can defy >>> It transforms the wasteland within us into a fertile plain >>> >>> Great poems trenchantly capture the truth >>> of that human life force >>> that blends with and beats in rhythm >>> with nature and the universe >>> They overflow with compassion >>> and feeling for all beings >>> They rouse and call forth the poetic heart in others >>> They bring out the flower and fragrance >>> in human nature >>> This I believe: restitution of the poetic heart means >>> nothing less than transforming the coming age >>> into the century of the human being! >>> >>> Ms. Baren misunderstands my original objections, assuming that by >>> "grammar & rhetoric" I meant the sort of surface features one's sixth grade >>> teacher corrects in red pen. But of course that's not what I'm talking about >>> at all, but about empty grammatical forms put to specious rhetorical uses. >>> The quotation that began this conversation is as bathetic as the poem above. >>> I'm offended by this kind of language and the fact that it is not howled >>> down even on a poetry discussion list is a mark of intellectual decrepitude. >>> No doubt such sentiments will earn me the spit-flecked epithets of "sir" and >>> (even more damning) "professor" again. So be it. >>> >>> jd >>> >>> >>> On Sat, May 17, 2008 at 8:14 AM, wrote: >>> >>>> I agree completely, Joseph. But it is important to alert people to the >>>> danger of cults such as SGI. >>>> >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: Joseph Duemer >>>> Sent: Fri, 16 May 2008 10:08 pm >>>> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] World's worst poet >>>> >>>> Teh stupid! Please make it stop! Buddhist evangelicalism! And all this >>>> making nice in a poetic political correctness sort of way? Let's call a cult >>>> a cult. My god, this is a depressing discussion. No wonder nobody respects >>>> poets -- their brains have all turned to fucking mush. The grammar & >>>> rhetoric of Ms. Baran's sentences in the posts above are evidence enough for >>>> me to never credit anything she says. Complete twaddle. Language matters. >>>> (Just an attempt to bring this thread into some sort of relevance for a >>>> *poetry* discussion list.) >>>> >>>> jd >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Joseph Duemer >>>> Professor of Humanities >>>> Clarkson University >>>> Weblog: sharpsand.net >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> New-Poetry mailing list >>>> New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu >>>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>>> >>>> ------------------------------ >>>> Plan your next roadtrip with MapQuest.com: >>>> America's #1 Mapping Site. >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> New-Poetry mailing list >>>> New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu >>>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Joseph Duemer >>> Professor of Humanities >>> Clarkson University >>> Weblog: sharpsand.net >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> New-Poetry mailing list >>> New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu >>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>> >>> >> >> >> -- >> "Who is truly great? I hope you can develop the ability to discern true >> human greatness. A great person is someone who forges unity among human >> beings through sincere dialogue, armed with a solid philosophy, feet firmly >> planted on the ground. A great person is one who lives among the people and >> earns their unshakable trust. Fickle popularity and temporary fads are >> nothing but illusions." >> >> Daily Encouragement - Daisaku Ikeda >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > > > -- > "Who is truly great? I hope you can develop the ability to discern true > human greatness. A great person is someone who forges unity among human > beings through sincere dialogue, armed with a solid philosophy, feet firmly > planted on the ground. A great person is one who lives among the people and > earns their unshakable trust. Fickle popularity and temporary fads are > nothing but illusions." > > Daily Encouragement - Daisaku Ikeda > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- "Who is truly great? I hope you can develop the ability to discern true human greatness. A great person is someone who forges unity among human beings through sincere dialogue, armed with a solid philosophy, feet firmly planted on the ground. A great person is one who lives among the people and earns their unshakable trust. Fickle popularity and temporary fads are nothing but illusions." Daily Encouragement - Daisaku Ikeda -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080517/32f4c5cf/attachment.html From mycueed at yahoo.com Sat May 17 17:14:56 2008 From: mycueed at yahoo.com (edward mycue) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:46 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] World's worst poet from edward mycue In-Reply-To: <2d5ffa0b0805171402h3c8766f5jf7d3077b53826cc1@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <695038.86962.qm@web57709.mail.re3.yahoo.com> well, it seems to me the proof the the expression "hoist by your own petard", but maybe not. and yes, we should all be nice to one another. what by the way to you mean by "three point back at you"? i gather fingers, but why 'three' and if three what does that mean really? (i'll go hunt in brewer's phrase and fable now.) hope everybody is cooling down now these quite hot summer days (at least in san francisco where i live). i'll bet, suzanne, if we knew oneanother, we'd be friends. you have a lot of vim and very likely mean well but just got angry and lost your head. i do the same. (i'm wondering if i should have not commented at all, especially being new to all this--even though probably ancient in your years.)(plus not used to being into the rough and tumble with the bigger boys and girls, and women and men.) edward mycue Suzanne Baran wrote: This is my last attempt to respond to this thread. My email is a nickname, a bastardization of my name, Suzanne. Insert jokes here___. I no longer wish to engage in acrimonious discussions about the SGI, Buddhism, Daisaku Ikeda (UN Peace Ambassador). I was simply trying to defend personal attacks on my Buddhist practice, my character, and other matters not relating to poetry. I think I provided enough entertainment and discussion fodder. Glad I could amuse you all. Edward, I was simply keeping you abreast of the comments made by a certain list member -- since you asked for evidence of the "F word." I have never met this person, and he has insulted me a few times. [When you point a finger at another, three point back at you...insert hackneyed remarks here_________.] Despite our harsh words, I wish Joseph well. He's bright and opinionated. I was wrong to forward his remarks. I also regret upsetting anyone on this list. As for purposeful put-ons, perhaps you needn't jump into discussions to call attention to what you render the "whole glossolalia of nonsense." A lesson to us all, The ever-unpopular Suzanne On Sat, May 17, 2008 at 1:34 PM, edward mycue wrote: dear suzanne baran, ah, now i see the phrase you object to that you have highlighted ("...fucking mush....") in joseph duemer's response to this whole glossolalia of nonsense. . but don't you see also that by jumping onto his wording that you are engaging in dissembling? you are attempting changing the focus of what the arguement is about by resorting to what amounts to an ad hominem distraction. this is especially odd since your email moniker is written as screwzbaran@gmail.com. "screwz" alone might refer to crazy or screwball or screwing, the latter another term for "fucking"--and both these latter often called "bad" words even though i don't think of it that way. what is going on here? it doesn't seem to be a purposeful put-on. sincerely, edward mycue Suzanne Baran wrote: "Teh stupid! Please make it stop! Buddhist evangelicalism! And all this making nice in a poetic political correctness sort of way? Let's call a cult a cult. My god, this is a depressing discussion. No wonder nobody respects poets -- their brains have all turned to fucking mush. The grammar & rhetoric of Ms. Baran's sentences in the posts above are evidence enough for me to never credit anything she says. Complete twaddle. Language matters. (Just an attempt to bring this thread into some sort of relevance for a poetry discussion list.)" jd On Sat, May 17, 2008 at 11:10 AM, edward mycue wrote: i missed the "f" word referred to. "the 'f' word" generally in my world means "fuck". i haven't been following this conversation closely; i just joined this newpoetry site. i went back and looked at posts identified as coming from joseph and failed to locate that word. edward mycue p.s. if i find it, what shall i infer? Suzanne Baran wrote: At least I have the sense and common decency not to use the "F" word. Too bad you don't have any poetry worth reading. Your hollow words tear down others. How academic! On Sat, May 17, 2008 at 6:04 AM, Joseph Duemer wrote: Funny, the original post led to a story about the "world's worst poet" & he was pretty bad, but Daisaku Ikeda gives William McGonagall serious competition. Here is an excerpt from a poem called "Poetry": This rich fountain of the spirit I call the poetic heart the poetic heart that is the source of all human creativity and power of imagination It fashions the dreams and daring and hopes of this earth creates harmony and concord It possesses a force no person whosoever can defy It transforms the wasteland within us into a fertile plain Great poems trenchantly capture the truth of that human life force that blends with and beats in rhythm with nature and the universe They overflow with compassion and feeling for all beings They rouse and call forth the poetic heart in others They bring out the flower and fragrance in human nature This I believe: restitution of the poetic heart means nothing less than transforming the coming age into the century of the human being! Ms. Baren misunderstands my original objections, assuming that by "grammar & rhetoric" I meant the sort of surface features one's sixth grade teacher corrects in red pen. But of course that's not what I'm talking about at all, but about empty grammatical forms put to specious rhetorical uses. The quotation that began this conversation is as bathetic as the poem above. I'm offended by this kind of language and the fact that it is not howled down even on a poetry discussion list is a mark of intellectual decrepitude. No doubt such sentiments will earn me the spit-flecked epithets of "sir" and (even more damning) "professor" again. So be it. jd On Sat, May 17, 2008 at 8:14 AM, wrote: I agree completely, Joseph. But it is important to alert people to the danger of cults such as SGI. -----Original Message----- From: Joseph Duemer Sent: Fri, 16 May 2008 10:08 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] World's worst poet Teh stupid! Please make it stop! Buddhist evangelicalism! And all this making nice in a poetic political correctness sort of way? Let's call a cult a cult. My god, this is a depressing discussion. No wonder nobody respects poets -- their brains have all turned to fucking mush. The grammar & rhetoric of Ms. Baran's sentences in the posts above are evidence enough for me to never credit anything she says. Complete twaddle. Language matters. (Just an attempt to bring this thread into some sort of relevance for a poetry discussion list.) jd -- Joseph Duemer Professor of Humanities Clarkson University Weblog: sharpsand.net _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry --------------------------------- Plan your next roadtrip with MapQuest.com: America's #1 Mapping Site. _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -- Joseph Duemer Professor of Humanities Clarkson University Weblog: sharpsand.net _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -- "Who is truly great? I hope you can develop the ability to discern true human greatness. A great person is someone who forges unity among human beings through sincere dialogue, armed with a solid philosophy, feet firmly planted on the ground. A great person is one who lives among the people and earns their unshakable trust. Fickle popularity and temporary fads are nothing but illusions." Daily Encouragement - Daisaku Ikeda _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -- "Who is truly great? I hope you can develop the ability to discern true human greatness. A great person is someone who forges unity among human beings through sincere dialogue, armed with a solid philosophy, feet firmly planted on the ground. A great person is one who lives among the people and earns their unshakable trust. Fickle popularity and temporary fads are nothing but illusions." Daily Encouragement - Daisaku Ikeda _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -- "Who is truly great? I hope you can develop the ability to discern true human greatness. A great person is someone who forges unity among human beings through sincere dialogue, armed with a solid philosophy, feet firmly planted on the ground. A great person is one who lives among the people and earns their unshakable trust. Fickle popularity and temporary fads are nothing but illusions." Daily Encouragement - Daisaku Ikeda _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080517/be767888/attachment.html From JforJames at aol.com Sat May 17 17:23:43 2008 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames@aol.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:46 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] World's worst poet from edward mycue Message-ID: In a message dated 5/17/2008 5:03:01 PM Eastern Daylight Time, screwzbaran@gmail.com writes: no longer wish to engage in acrimonious discussions about the SGI, Buddhism, Daisaku Ikeda (UN Peace Ambassador). I was simply trying to defend personal attacks on my Buddhist practice, my character I think Suzanne is correct here. Bob (inadvertently) started this whole row by misattributing the quote appended to her original email. She said she wasn't under the spell of and cult and we should take that at face value. Something said got Joe on his high horse, which he mounted with a fucking flying bound. Note: Bob Grumman is always to blame. At least on this list. Finnegan **************Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family favorites at AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/dinner-tonight?NCID=aolfod00030000000001) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080517/d59076a8/attachment.html From screwzbaran at gmail.com Sat May 17 17:26:10 2008 From: screwzbaran at gmail.com (Suzanne Baran) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:46 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] World's worst poet from edward mycue In-Reply-To: <695038.86962.qm@web57709.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <2d5ffa0b0805171402h3c8766f5jf7d3077b53826cc1@mail.gmail.com> <695038.86962.qm@web57709.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <2d5ffa0b0805171426h2761e37ft8aa2c71732be44a6@mail.gmail.com> Oy, here we go again. I don't think I was rude at all. I was defending myself. When you physically point a finger at someone, (pointer finger) three point back at you (middle, ring, pinkie). It's like the kids say, "Check yourself before you wreck yourself." I'm sure we'd be friends, too. I'm relatively young and callow, but have lived my share of lifetimes. I'm not a professor or close to it, so I bow respectfully to the others on this list, despite their pomposity/semantics. Continued peace and love, Suzanne On Sat, May 17, 2008 at 2:14 PM, edward mycue wrote: > well, it seems to me the proof the the expression "hoist by your own > petard", but maybe not. and yes, we should all be nice to one another. > > what by the way to you mean by "three point back at you"? i gather > fingers, but why 'three' and if three what does that mean really? (i'll go > hunt in brewer's phrase and fable now.) > > hope everybody is cooling down now these quite hot summer days (at least in > san francisco where i live). > > i'll bet, suzanne, if we knew oneanother, we'd be friends. you have a lot > of vim and very likely mean well but just got angry and lost your head. i do > the same. (i'm wondering if i should have not commented at all, especially > being new to all this--even though probably ancient in your years.)(plus not > used to being into the rough and tumble with the bigger boys and girls, and > women and men.) edward mycue > > > *Suzanne Baran * wrote: > > This is my last attempt to respond to this thread. My email is a nickname, > a bastardization of my name, Suzanne. Insert jokes here___. > > I no longer wish to engage in acrimonious discussions about the SGI, > Buddhism, Daisaku Ikeda (UN Peace Ambassador). I was simply trying to defend > personal attacks on my Buddhist practice, my character, and other matters > not relating to poetry. > > I think I provided enough entertainment and discussion fodder. Glad I could > amuse you all. > > Edward, I was simply keeping you abreast of the comments made by a certain > list member -- since you asked for evidence of the "F word." I have never > met this person, and he has insulted me a few times. > > [When you point a finger at another, three point back at you...insert > hackneyed remarks here_________.] > > Despite our harsh words, I wish Joseph well. He's bright and opinionated. > I was wrong to forward his remarks. I also regret upsetting anyone on this > list. > > As for purposeful put-ons, perhaps you needn't jump into discussions to > call attention to what you render the "whole glossolalia of nonsense." > > A lesson to us all, > The ever-unpopular > Suzanne > > > > > On Sat, May 17, 2008 at 1:34 PM, edward mycue wrote: > >> dear suzanne baran, >> >> ah, now i see the phrase you object to that you have highlighted >> ("...fucking mush....") in joseph duemer's response to this whole >> glossolalia of nonsense. . >> >> but don't you see also that by jumping onto his wording that you are >> engaging in dissembling? you are attempting changing the focus of what the >> arguement is about by resorting to what amounts to an ad hominem >> distraction. >> >> this is especially odd since your email moniker is written as >> screwzbaran@gmail.com. "screwz" alone might refer to crazy or screwball >> or screwing, the latter another term for "fucking"--and both these latter >> often called "bad" words even though i don't think of it that way. >> >> what is going on here? it doesn't seem to be a purposeful put-on. >> >> sincerely, edward mycue >> >> >> >> *Suzanne Baran * wrote: >> >> "Teh stupid! Please make it stop! Buddhist evangelicalism! And all this >> making nice in a poetic political correctness sort of way? Let's call a cult >> a cult. My god, this is a depressing discussion. No wonder nobody respects >> poets -- their brains have all turned to *fucking* mush. The grammar & >> rhetoric of Ms. Baran's sentences in the posts above are evidence enough for >> me to never credit anything she says. Complete twaddle. Language matters. >> (Just an attempt to bring this thread into some sort of relevance for a * >> poetry* discussion list.)" >> >> jd >> >> >> >> On Sat, May 17, 2008 at 11:10 AM, edward mycue wrote: >> >>> i missed the "f" word referred to. "the 'f' word" generally in my world >>> means "fuck". i haven't been following this conversation closely; i just >>> joined this newpoetry site. i went back and looked at posts identified as >>> coming from joseph >>> and failed to locate that word. edward mycue >>> p.s. if i find it, what shall i infer? >>> *Suzanne Baran * wrote: >>> >>> At least I have the sense and common decency not to use the "F" word. Too >>> bad you don't have any poetry worth reading. Your hollow words tear down >>> others. How academic! >>> >>> On Sat, May 17, 2008 at 6:04 AM, Joseph Duemer wrote: >>> >>>> Funny, the original post led to a story about the "world's worst poet" & >>>> he was pretty bad, but Daisaku Ikedagives William >>>> McGonagall >>>> serious >>>> competition. Here is an excerpt from a poem called "Poetry": >>>> >>>> This rich fountain of the spirit I call the poetic heart >>>> the poetic heart that is the source >>>> of all human creativity >>>> and power of imagination >>>> It fashions the dreams >>>> and daring and hopes of this earth >>>> creates harmony and concord >>>> It possesses a force no person whosoever can defy >>>> It transforms the wasteland within us into a fertile plain >>>> >>>> Great poems trenchantly capture the truth >>>> of that human life force >>>> that blends with and beats in rhythm >>>> with nature and the universe >>>> They overflow with compassion >>>> and feeling for all beings >>>> They rouse and call forth the poetic heart in others >>>> They bring out the flower and fragrance >>>> in human nature >>>> This I believe: restitution of the poetic heart means >>>> nothing less than transforming the coming age >>>> into the century of the human being! >>>> >>>> Ms. Baren misunderstands my original objections, assuming that by >>>> "grammar & rhetoric" I meant the sort of surface features one's sixth grade >>>> teacher corrects in red pen. But of course that's not what I'm talking about >>>> at all, but about empty grammatical forms put to specious rhetorical uses. >>>> The quotation that began this conversation is as bathetic as the poem above. >>>> I'm offended by this kind of language and the fact that it is not howled >>>> down even on a poetry discussion list is a mark of intellectual decrepitude. >>>> No doubt such sentiments will earn me the spit-flecked epithets of "sir" and >>>> (even more damning) "professor" again. So be it. >>>> >>>> jd >>>> >>>> >>>> On Sat, May 17, 2008 at 8:14 AM, wrote: >>>> >>>>> I agree completely, Joseph. But it is important to alert people to the >>>>> danger of cults such as SGI. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: Joseph Duemer >>>>> Sent: Fri, 16 May 2008 10:08 pm >>>>> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] World's worst poet >>>>> >>>>> Teh stupid! Please make it stop! Buddhist evangelicalism! And all >>>>> this making nice in a poetic political correctness sort of way? Let's call a >>>>> cult a cult. My god, this is a depressing discussion. No wonder nobody >>>>> respects poets -- their brains have all turned to fucking mush. The grammar >>>>> & rhetoric of Ms. Baran's sentences in the posts above are evidence enough >>>>> for me to never credit anything she says. Complete twaddle. Language >>>>> matters. (Just an attempt to bring this thread into some sort of relevance >>>>> for a *poetry* discussion list.) >>>>> >>>>> jd >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Joseph Duemer >>>>> Professor of Humanities >>>>> Clarkson University >>>>> Weblog: sharpsand.net >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> New-Poetry mailing list >>>>> New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu >>>>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>>>> >>>>> ------------------------------ >>>>> Plan your next roadtrip with MapQuest.com: >>>>> America's #1 Mapping Site. >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> New-Poetry mailing list >>>>> New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu >>>>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Joseph Duemer >>>> Professor of Humanities >>>> Clarkson University >>>> Weblog: sharpsand.net >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> New-Poetry mailing list >>>> New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu >>>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> "Who is truly great? I hope you can develop the ability to discern true >>> human greatness. A great person is someone who forges unity among human >>> beings through sincere dialogue, armed with a solid philosophy, feet firmly >>> planted on the ground. A great person is one who lives among the people and >>> earns their unshakable trust. Fickle popularity and temporary fads are >>> nothing but illusions." >>> >>> Daily Encouragement - Daisaku Ikeda >>> _______________________________________________ >>> New-Poetry mailing list >>> New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu >>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> New-Poetry mailing list >>> New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu >>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>> >>> >> >> >> -- >> "Who is truly great? I hope you can develop the ability to discern true >> human greatness. A great person is someone who forges unity among human >> beings through sincere dialogue, armed with a solid philosophy, feet firmly >> planted on the ground. A great person is one who lives among the people and >> earns their unshakable trust. Fickle popularity and temporary fads are >> nothing but illusions." >> >> Daily Encouragement - Daisaku Ikeda >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > > > -- > "Who is truly great? I hope you can develop the ability to discern true > human greatness. A great person is someone who forges unity among human > beings through sincere dialogue, armed with a solid philosophy, feet firmly > planted on the ground. A great person is one who lives among the people and > earns their unshakable trust. Fickle popularity and temporary fads are > nothing but illusions." > > Daily Encouragement - Daisaku Ikeda > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- "Who is truly great? I hope you can develop the ability to discern true human greatness. A great person is someone who forges unity among human beings through sincere dialogue, armed with a solid philosophy, feet firmly planted on the ground. A great person is one who lives among the people and earns their unshakable trust. Fickle popularity and temporary fads are nothing but illusions." Daily Encouragement - Daisaku Ikeda -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080517/c261ee4e/attachment.html From rog3r.day at gmail.com Sat May 17 17:59:36 2008 From: rog3r.day at gmail.com (Roger Day) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:46 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] World's worst poet In-Reply-To: <482F1211.6000006@ntlworld.com> References: <482F1211.6000006@ntlworld.com> Message-ID: Talking of nonsense, that's a fine paragraph you spin there Davey boy. Roger On Sat, May 17, 2008 at 6:12 PM, David Bircumshaw wrote: > I think it's quite amusing that the lamentable McGonagall, pelted with > tomatoes in life and laughed at still in death, has inadvertently provoked > such a long and argumentative thread, with barely a mention of his > flatfooted Musings included. 'Twas ever thus, O Sage of Tay. > I do believe one of the before-mentioned Spasmodics was a kind of poetical > mentor to him. I object, though, to Daisaku Ikeda's anodyne null-poetry > being suggested as competition for McGonagall's crown of donkey's ears, > Dundee's greatest poet +aspires+ to the heights of incompetence, he > suffered for his lack of art, by his eternal mediocrity we are at last > reminded what good poetry is supposed to be, it's no wonder his star is on > the increase in an age unpoets and their negations of language are feted, > when critics who can barely write a paragraph of comprehensible English are > made lawgivers of taste, he alone still sets a standard by which all others > can be judged, in him the sanctity of the Author is restored, all sincerity > is returned to verse, no-one, no-one could have written so badly and have > ruined their life for it without having meant every word, honours he > disdained and the world's false gee-gaws contemned, and all the would-be > managers of culture and minds he confutes and thwarts. > > -- > > David Bircumshaw > Website and A Chide's Alphabet > http://homepage.ntlworld.com/david.bircumshaw/ > The Animal Subsides http://www.arrowheadpress.co.uk/books/animal.html > Leicester Poetry Society: http://www.poetryleicester.co.uk > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- My Stuff: http://www.badstep.net/ "She went out with her paint box, paints the chapel blue She went out with her matches, torched the car-wash too" The Go-Betweens From JforJames at aol.com Sat May 17 18:10:37 2008 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames@aol.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:46 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetry--Good, Bad, & Kleinzahler Message-ID: David, I'll posit a few points on Kleinzahler. He's in the curmudgeon vein of American poetics which includes poets like Alan Dugan, William Bronk, and newer voices like Daisy Fried. Kleinzahler, you get this impression from prose/crtical remarks, fancies himself as outre or avant, in some fashion. But his poetry, which is often very good and interesting, is nothing of the sort. It's definitely part of the mainstream panoply. And by that I mean no disrespect to the mainstream. I'm not one who adheres to the SofQ notion. School's out, baby. The people who believe in SoQ just aren't paying attention. Finnegan In a message dated 5/17/2008 10:02:04 AM Eastern Daylight Time, grahamd@ripon.edu writes: The Old Poet, Dying He looks eerily young, what's left of him, purged, somehow, back into boyhood. It is difficult not to watch the movie on TV at the foot of his bed, 40" color screen, a jailhouse dolly psychodrama: truncheons and dirty shower scenes. I recognize one of the actresses, now a famous lesbian, clearly an early B-movie role. The black nurse says "Oh dear" during the beatings. --TV in this town is crap, he says. His voice is very faint. He leans toward me, sliding further and further, until the nurse has to straighten him out, scolding him gently. He reaches out for my hand. The sudden intimacy rattles me. He is telling a story. Two, actually, and at some point they blend together. There are rivers and trains, Oxford and a town near Hamburg. Also, the night train to Milan and a lovely Italian breakfast. The river in Oxford-- he can't remember the name; but the birds and fritillaria in bloom ... He remembers the purple flowers and a plate of gingerbread cookies set out at one of the colleges. He gasps to remember those cookies. How surprised he must have been by the largesse, and hungry, too. --He's drifting in and out: I can hear the nurse on the phone from the other room. He has been remembering Europe for me. Exhausted, he lies quiet for a time. --There's nothing better than a good pee, he says and begins to fade. He seems very close to death. Perhaps in a moment, perhaps a week. Then awakes. Every patch of story, no matter how fuddled, resolves into a drollery. He will perish, I imagine, en route to a drollery. Although his poems, little kinetic snapshots of trees and light, so denuded of personality and delicately made that irony of any sort would stand out like a pile of steaming cow flop on a parquet floor. We are in a great metropolis that rises heroically from the American prairie: a baronial home, the finest of neighborhoods, its broad streets nearly empty on a Saturday afternoon, here and there a redbud in bloom. Even in health, a man so modest and soft-spoken as to be invisible among others, in a room of almost any size. It was, I think, a kind of hardship. --Have you met what's-his-name yet? he asks. You know who I mean, the big shot. --Yes, I tell him, I have. --You know that poem of his? Everyone knows that poem where he's sitting indoors by the fire and it's snowing outside and he suddenly feels a snowflake on his wrist? He pauses and begins to nod off. I remember now the name of the river he was after, the Cherwell, with its naked dons, The Parson's Pleasure. There's a fiercesome catfight on the TV, with blondie catching hell from the chicana. He comes round again and turns to me, leaning close, --Well, of course, he says, taking my hand, his eyes narrowing with malice and delight: --That's not going to be just any old snowflake, now, is it? --August Kleinzahler. The Strange Hours Travelers Keep. Farrar, Straus & Giroux, 2003. **************Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family favorites at AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/dinner-tonight?NCID=aolfod00030000000001) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080517/83e9266d/attachment.html From mycueed at yahoo.com Sat May 17 18:14:38 2008 From: mycueed at yahoo.com (edward mycue) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:47 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] from edward mycue who thinks rude is rude and not a riddle In-Reply-To: <2d5ffa0b0805171426h2761e37ft8aa2c71732be44a6@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <328978.91322.qm@web57704.mail.re3.yahoo.com> but don't try to apologize further. it'll only lead to evasion, dissembling, self-serving contrition and archeology of recriminations (who said what first, and who meant what when, or what we feel) . as for the children's rime game: do you remember the one where one child says something about the other's verbal charge being subject to one being rubber and the other glue? "i'm rubber and you're glue. whatever you say will bounce off me and stick to you."? that's quite like your three fingers riposte. it's cute. i don't know how i missed hearing it. or recalling it. (there're probably a few dissertations on that kind of thing. somewhat riddle-like. but i wonder if the opie collections of phrases mightn't trace such back for how many generations?) what we need to do is sprinkle some rue over the whole thing the way ophelia did: "there's rue for you, hand here's some for me! we may call it 'herb of grace' o' sundays." and let this all be a lesson to ourselves to avoid getting chewed-up with religious gumballs. sincerely, edward mycue (sincerety in literature doesn't make it true but indicates intensity.)(oh, i'm not a teacher, either.) Suzanne Baran wrote: Oy, here we go again. I don't think I was rude at all. I was defending myself. When you physically point a finger at someone, (pointer finger) three point back at you (middle, ring, pinkie). It's like the kids say, "Check yourself before you wreck yourself." I'm sure we'd be friends, too. I'm relatively young and callow, but have lived my share of lifetimes. I'm not a professor or close to it, so I bow respectfully to the others on this list, despite their pomposity/semantics. Continued peace and love, Suzanne On Sat, May 17, 2008 at 2:14 PM, edward mycue wrote: well, it seems to me the proof the the expression "hoist by your own petard", but maybe not. and yes, we should all be nice to one another. what by the way to you mean by "three point back at you"? i gather fingers, but why 'three' and if three what does that mean really? (i'll go hunt in brewer's phrase and fable now.) hope everybody is cooling down now these quite hot summer days (at least in san francisco where i live). i'll bet, suzanne, if we knew oneanother, we'd be friends. you have a lot of vim and very likely mean well but just got angry and lost your head. i do the same. (i'm wondering if i should have not commented at all, especially being new to all this--even though probably ancient in your years.)(plus not used to being into the rough and tumble with the bigger boys and girls, and women and men.) edward mycue Suzanne Baran wrote: This is my last attempt to respond to this thread. My email is a nickname, a bastardization of my name, Suzanne. Insert jokes here___. I no longer wish to engage in acrimonious discussions about the SGI, Buddhism, Daisaku Ikeda (UN Peace Ambassador). I was simply trying to defend personal attacks on my Buddhist practice, my character, and other matters not relating to poetry. I think I provided enough entertainment and discussion fodder. Glad I could amuse you all. Edward, I was simply keeping you abreast of the comments made by a certain list member -- since you asked for evidence of the "F word." I have never met this person, and he has insulted me a few times. [When you point a finger at another, three point back at you...insert hackneyed remarks here_________.] Despite our harsh words, I wish Joseph well. He's bright and opinionated. I was wrong to forward his remarks. I also regret upsetting anyone on this list. As for purposeful put-ons, perhaps you needn't jump into discussions to call attention to what you render the "whole glossolalia of nonsense." A lesson to us all, The ever-unpopular Suzanne On Sat, May 17, 2008 at 1:34 PM, edward mycue wrote: dear suzanne baran, ah, now i see the phrase you object to that you have highlighted ("...fucking mush....") in joseph duemer's response to this whole glossolalia of nonsense. . but don't you see also that by jumping onto his wording that you are engaging in dissembling? you are attempting changing the focus of what the arguement is about by resorting to what amounts to an ad hominem distraction. this is especially odd since your email moniker is written as screwzbaran@gmail.com. "screwz" alone might refer to crazy or screwball or screwing, the latter another term for "fucking"--and both these latter often called "bad" words even though i don't think of it that way. what is going on here? it doesn't seem to be a purposeful put-on. sincerely, edward mycue Suzanne Baran wrote: "Teh stupid! Please make it stop! Buddhist evangelicalism! And all this making nice in a poetic political correctness sort of way? Let's call a cult a cult. My god, this is a depressing discussion. No wonder nobody respects poets -- their brains have all turned to fucking mush. The grammar & rhetoric of Ms. Baran's sentences in the posts above are evidence enough for me to never credit anything she says. Complete twaddle. Language matters. (Just an attempt to bring this thread into some sort of relevance for a poetry discussion list.)" jd On Sat, May 17, 2008 at 11:10 AM, edward mycue wrote: i missed the "f" word referred to. "the 'f' word" generally in my world means "fuck". i haven't been following this conversation closely; i just joined this newpoetry site. i went back and looked at posts identified as coming from joseph and failed to locate that word. edward mycue p.s. if i find it, what shall i infer? Suzanne Baran wrote: At least I have the sense and common decency not to use the "F" word. Too bad you don't have any poetry worth reading. Your hollow words tear down others. How academic! On Sat, May 17, 2008 at 6:04 AM, Joseph Duemer wrote: Funny, the original post led to a story about the "world's worst poet" & he was pretty bad, but Daisaku Ikeda gives William McGonagall serious competition. Here is an excerpt from a poem called "Poetry": This rich fountain of the spirit I call the poetic heart the poetic heart that is the source of all human creativity and power of imagination It fashions the dreams and daring and hopes of this earth creates harmony and concord It possesses a force no person whosoever can defy It transforms the wasteland within us into a fertile plain Great poems trenchantly capture the truth of that human life force that blends with and beats in rhythm with nature and the universe They overflow with compassion and feeling for all beings They rouse and call forth the poetic heart in others They bring out the flower and fragrance in human nature This I believe: restitution of the poetic heart means nothing less than transforming the coming age into the century of the human being! Ms. Baren misunderstands my original objections, assuming that by "grammar & rhetoric" I meant the sort of surface features one's sixth grade teacher corrects in red pen. But of course that's not what I'm talking about at all, but about empty grammatical forms put to specious rhetorical uses. The quotation that began this conversation is as bathetic as the poem above. I'm offended by this kind of language and the fact that it is not howled down even on a poetry discussion list is a mark of intellectual decrepitude. No doubt such sentiments will earn me the spit-flecked epithets of "sir" and (even more damning) "professor" again. So be it. jd On Sat, May 17, 2008 at 8:14 AM, wrote: I agree completely, Joseph. But it is important to alert people to the danger of cults such as SGI. -----Original Message----- From: Joseph Duemer Sent: Fri, 16 May 2008 10:08 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] World's worst poet Teh stupid! Please make it stop! Buddhist evangelicalism! And all this making nice in a poetic political correctness sort of way? Let's call a cult a cult. My god, this is a depressing discussion. No wonder nobody respects poets -- their brains have all turned to fucking mush. The grammar & rhetoric of Ms. Baran's sentences in the posts above are evidence enough for me to never credit anything she says. Complete twaddle. Language matters. (Just an attempt to bring this thread into some sort of relevance for a poetry discussion list.) jd -- Joseph Duemer Professor of Humanities Clarkson University Weblog: sharpsand.net _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry --------------------------------- Plan your next roadtrip with MapQuest.com: America's #1 Mapping Site. _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -- Joseph Duemer Professor of Humanities Clarkson University Weblog: sharpsand.net _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -- "Who is truly great? I hope you can develop the ability to discern true human greatness. A great person is someone who forges unity among human beings through sincere dialogue, armed with a solid philosophy, feet firmly planted on the ground. A great person is one who lives among the people and earns their unshakable trust. Fickle popularity and temporary fads are nothing but illusions." Daily Encouragement - Daisaku Ikeda _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -- "Who is truly great? I hope you can develop the ability to discern true human greatness. A great person is someone who forges unity among human beings through sincere dialogue, armed with a solid philosophy, feet firmly planted on the ground. A great person is one who lives among the people and earns their unshakable trust. Fickle popularity and temporary fads are nothing but illusions." Daily Encouragement - Daisaku Ikeda _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -- "Who is truly great? I hope you can develop the ability to discern true human greatness. A great person is someone who forges unity among human beings through sincere dialogue, armed with a solid philosophy, feet firmly planted on the ground. A great person is one who lives among the people and earns their unshakable trust. Fickle popularity and temporary fads are nothing but illusions." Daily Encouragement - Daisaku Ikeda _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -- "Who is truly great? I hope you can develop the ability to discern true human greatness. A great person is someone who forges unity among human beings through sincere dialogue, armed with a solid philosophy, feet firmly planted on the ground. A great person is one who lives among the people and earns their unshakable trust. Fickle popularity and temporary fads are nothing but illusions." Daily Encouragement - Daisaku Ikeda _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080517/981b6d29/attachment.html From anny.ballardini at tin.it Sat May 17 18:15:49 2008 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:47 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] World's worst poet from edward mycue In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: There are many other ways of seeing it, for ex.: that Joseph is a demanding and respectable academic, that Suzanne Baran is not only a computer programmer but also working on a huge project, we also learned a new word: "..." the meaning of which is "break and manipulate;" we also came to know a new member, hello! And that Finnegan is a car man (no horses for him, :-)) by this I am not saying that Bob is not guilty, ... continuing with my Cormac McCarthy: He understood what the priest could not. That what we seek is the worthy adversary. For we strike out to fall flailing through demons of wire and crepe and we long for something of substance to oppose us. Something to contain us or to stay our hand. Otherwise there were no boundaries to our own being and we too must extend our claims until we lose all definition. Until we must be swallowed up at last by the very void to which we wished to stand opposed. ----- Original Message ----- From: JforJames@aol.com To: new-poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Saturday, May 17, 2008 11:23 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] World's worst poet from edward mycue In a message dated 5/17/2008 5:03:01 PM Eastern Daylight Time, screwzbaran@gmail.com writes: no longer wish to engage in acrimonious discussions about the SGI, Buddhism, Daisaku Ikeda (UN Peace Ambassador). I was simply trying to defend personal attacks on my Buddhist practice, my character I think Suzanne is correct here. Bob (inadvertently) started this whole row by misattributing the quote appended to her original email. She said she wasn't under the spell of and cult and we should take that at face value. Something said got Joe on his high horse, which he mounted with a fucking flying bound. Note: Bob Grumman is always to blame. At least on this list. Finnegan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080518/2aff8f1c/attachment.html From screwzbaran at gmail.com Sat May 17 18:19:15 2008 From: screwzbaran at gmail.com (Suzanne Baran) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:47 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] World's worst poet from edward mycue In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2d5ffa0b0805171519t11e3edb0ib0170990886d6681@mail.gmail.com> We can also learn that Amy is the John Madden of the poetry thread list! Nice play-by-play. Back to the topic at hand -- Cormac McCarthy -- love the quote. Very apropos. On Sat, May 17, 2008 at 3:15 PM, Anny Ballardini wrote: > There are many other ways of seeing it, for ex.: that Joseph is > a demanding and respectable academic, that Suzanne Baran is not only a > computer programmer but also working on a huge project, we also learned a > new word: "..." the meaning of which is "break and manipulate;" we also came > to know a new member, hello! And that Finnegan is a car man (no horses for > him, :-)) > > by this I am not saying that Bob is not guilty, ... > > continuing with my Cormac McCarthy: > > He understood what the priest could not. That what we seek is the worthy > adversary. For we strike out to fall flailing through demons of wire and > crepe and we long for something of substance to oppose us. Something to > contain us or to stay our hand. Otherwise there were no boundaries to our > own being and we too must extend our claims until we lose all definition. > Until we must be swallowed up at last by the very void to which we wished to > stand opposed. > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* JforJames@aol.com > *To:* new-poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > *Sent:* Saturday, May 17, 2008 11:23 PM > *Subject:* Re: [New-Poetry] World's worst poet from edward mycue > > In a message dated 5/17/2008 5:03:01 PM Eastern Daylight Time, > screwzbaran@gmail.com writes: > > no longer wish to engage in acrimonious discussions about the SGI, > Buddhism, Daisaku Ikeda (UN Peace Ambassador). I was simply trying to defend > personal attacks on my Buddhist practice, my character > > I think Suzanne is correct here. Bob (inadvertently) started this whole > row by misattributing the quote appended to her original email. She said she > wasn't under the spell of and cult and we should take that at face value. > Something said got Joe on his high horse, which he mounted with a fucking > flying bound. > Note: Bob Grumman is always to blame. At least on this list. > Finnegan > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- "Who is truly great? I hope you can develop the ability to discern true human greatness. A great person is someone who forges unity among human beings through sincere dialogue, armed with a solid philosophy, feet firmly planted on the ground. A great person is one who lives among the people and earns their unshakable trust. Fickle popularity and temporary fads are nothing but illusions." Daily Encouragement - Daisaku Ikeda -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080517/e4da0e2e/attachment.html From anny.ballardini at tin.it Sat May 17 18:32:46 2008 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:47 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] World's worst poet from edward mycue In-Reply-To: <2d5ffa0b0805171519t11e3edb0ib0170990886d6681@mail.gmail.com> References: <2d5ffa0b0805171519t11e3edb0ib0170990886d6681@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <6EA5E1A7F80D4F4F923021E7D3DCFD82@AnnyPC> :-) ----- Original Message ----- From: Suzanne Baran To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &,Views Sent: Sunday, May 18, 2008 12:19 AM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] World's worst poet from edward mycue We can also learn that Amy is the John Madden of the poetry thread list! Nice play-by-play. Back to the topic at hand -- Cormac McCarthy -- love the quote. Very apropos. On Sat, May 17, 2008 at 3:15 PM, Anny Ballardini wrote: There are many other ways of seeing it, for ex.: that Joseph is a demanding and respectable academic, that Suzanne Baran is not only a computer programmer but also working on a huge project, we also learned a new word: "..." the meaning of which is "break and manipulate;" we also came to know a new member, hello! And that Finnegan is a car man (no horses for him, :-)) by this I am not saying that Bob is not guilty, ... continuing with my Cormac McCarthy: He understood what the priest could not. That what we seek is the worthy adversary. For we strike out to fall flailing through demons of wire and crepe and we long for something of substance to oppose us. Something to contain us or to stay our hand. Otherwise there were no boundaries to our own being and we too must extend our claims until we lose all definition. Until we must be swallowed up at last by the very void to which we wished to stand opposed. ----- Original Message ----- From: JforJames@aol.com To: new-poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Saturday, May 17, 2008 11:23 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] World's worst poet from edward mycue In a message dated 5/17/2008 5:03:01 PM Eastern Daylight Time, screwzbaran@gmail.com writes: no longer wish to engage in acrimonious discussions about the SGI, Buddhism, Daisaku Ikeda (UN Peace Ambassador). I was simply trying to defend personal attacks on my Buddhist practice, my character I think Suzanne is correct here. Bob (inadvertently) started this whole row by misattributing the quote appended to her original email. She said she wasn't under the spell of and cult and we should take that at face value. Something said got Joe on his high horse, which he mounted with a fucking flying bound. Note: Bob Grumman is always to blame. At least on this list. Finnegan -- "Who is truly great? I hope you can develop the ability to discern true human greatness. A great person is someone who forges unity among human beings through sincere dialogue, armed with a solid philosophy, feet firmly planted on the ground. A great person is one who lives among the people and earns their unshakable trust. Fickle popularity and temporary fads are nothing but illusions." Daily Encouragement - Daisaku Ikeda -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080518/e8a22a9a/attachment.html From millb at aol.com Sat May 17 20:30:34 2008 From: millb at aol.com (millb@aol.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:47 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Kindle Fever In-Reply-To: <25D0F7D2A0714A0EBD6F41495D62ED81@AnnyPC> References: <25D0F7D2A0714A0EBD6F41495D62ED81@AnnyPC> Message-ID: <8CA8695852B828F-820-7880@webmail-nd12.sysops.aol.com> Greetings, Just got a Kindle for my birthday.? So far, seems amazing. 200 books in one very remarkable book-like electronic gadget.? No Kindle poetry books as of yet, but downloaded a number of my favorite novels.? Reads like a book.? Thinking it will be very handy on an airplane.? Anyone else have one? Cheers Mill -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080517/fe5fa5ad/attachment.html From shin02143 at aol.com Sat May 17 21:05:37 2008 From: shin02143 at aol.com (shin02143@aol.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:47 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Kindle Fever In-Reply-To: <8CA8695852B828F-820-7880@webmail-nd12.sysops.aol.com> References: <25D0F7D2A0714A0EBD6F41495D62ED81@AnnyPC> <8CA8695852B828F-820-7880@webmail-nd12.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <8CA869A6AF98C75-F2C-107B@WEBMAIL-DG06.sim.aol.com> I've heard about them but for me there is no substitute for reading a book that I hold in my hands. I can't adapt to reading from a screen (except email and Google, of course). Rick -----Original Message----- From: millb@aol.com To: new-poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Sat, 17 May 2008 8:30 pm Subject: [New-Poetry] Kindle Fever Greetings, Just got a Kindle for my birthday.? So far, seems amazing. 200 books in one very remarkable book-like electronic gadget.? No Kindle poetry books as of yet, but downloaded a number of my favorite novels.? Reads like a book.? Thinking it will be very handy on an airplane.? Anyone else have one? Cheers Mill Plan your next roadtrip with MapQuest.com: America's #1 Mapping Site. _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080517/8fdbb3fa/attachment.html From jeff.newberry at gmail.com Sat May 17 21:11:23 2008 From: jeff.newberry at gmail.com (Jeff Newberry) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:47 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetry--Good, Bad, & Kleinzahler In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <731bb17a0805171811g6ba79325g885ae92da18f3843@mail.gmail.com> Jim said, "The people who believe in SoQ just aren't paying attention." Can I get an amen? Jeff Newberry On Sat, May 17, 2008 at 6:10 PM, wrote: > David, I'll posit a few points on Kleinzahler. He's in the curmudgeon > vein of American poetics which includes poets like Alan Dugan, William > Bronk, and newer voices like Daisy Fried. Kleinzahler, you get this > impression from prose/crtical remarks, fancies himself as outre or avant, in > some fashion. But his poetry, which is often very good and interesting, is > nothing of the sort. It's definitely part of the mainstream panoply. And by > that I mean no disrespect to the mainstream. I'm not one who adheres to the > SofQ notion. School's out, baby. The people who believe in SoQ just aren't > paying attention. > > Finnegan > > In a message dated 5/17/2008 10:02:04 AM Eastern Daylight Time, > grahamd@ripon.edu writes: > > *The Old Poet, Dying* > > He looks eerily young, > what's left of him, > purged, somehow, back into boyhood. > It is difficult not to watch > the movie on TV at the foot of his bed, > 40" color screen, > a jailhouse dolly psychodrama: > truncheons and dirty shower scenes. > I recognize one of the actresses, > now a famous lesbian, > clearly an early B-movie role. > The black nurse says "Oh dear" > during the beatings. > *--TV in this town is crap*, he says. > His voice is very faint. > He leans toward me, > sliding further and further, > until the nurse has to straighten him out, > scolding him gently. > He reaches out for my hand. > The sudden intimacy rattles me. > He is telling a story. > Two, actually, > and at some point they blend together. > There are rivers and trains, > Oxford and a town near Hamburg. > Also, the night train to Milan > and a lovely Italian breakfast. > The river in Oxford-- > he can't remember the name; > but the birds and fritillaria in bloom ... > He remembers the purple flowers > and a plate of gingerbread cookies > set out at one of the colleges. > He gasps to remember those cookies. > How surprised he must have been > by the largesse, > and hungry, too. > *--He's drifting in and out: * > I can hear the nurse > on the phone from the other room. > He has been remembering Europe for me. > Exhausted, he lies quiet for a time. > *--There's nothing better than a good pee, * > he says and begins to fade. > He seems very close to death. > Perhaps in a moment, perhaps a week. > Then awakes. > Every patch of story, no matter how fuddled, > resolves into a drollery. > He will perish, I imagine, > en route to a drollery. > > Although his poems, > little kinetic snapshots of trees and light, > so denuded of personality > and delicately made > that irony of any sort > would stand out > like a pile of steaming cow flop > on a parquet floor. > We are in a great metropolis > that rises heroically from the American prairie: > a baronial home, > the finest of neighborhoods, > its broad streets nearly empty > on a Saturday afternoon, > here and there a redbud in bloom. > Even in health, > a man so modest and soft-spoken > as to be invisible > among others, in a room of almost any size. > It was, I think, a kind of hardship. > *--Have you met what's-his-name yet? * > he asks. > *You know who I mean, * > *the big shot.* > --*Yes*, I tell him, *I have*. > *--You know that poem of his? * > *Everyone knows that poem * > *where he's sitting indoors by the fire * > *and it's snowing outside * > *and he suddenly feels a snowflake * > *on his wrist?* > He pauses and begins to nod off. > I remember now the name of the river > he was after, the Cherwell, > with its naked dons, The Parson's Pleasure. > There's a fiercesome catfight > on the TV, with blondie catching hell > from the chicana. > He comes round again and turns to me, > leaning close, > *--Well, of course*, he says, > taking my hand, > his eyes narrowing with malice and delight: > *--That's not going to be just any old snowflake, * > *now, is it?* > > > --August Kleinzahler. *The Strange Hours Travelers Keep*. Farrar, Straus > & Giroux, 2003. > > > > > > ------------------------------ > Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family favorites at > AOL Food . > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- "Why are you wearing that stupid *man* suit?" http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080517/9e3b4782/attachment.html From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sat May 17 22:19:45 2008 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:47 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] World's worst poet from edward mycue In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <482F9241.5060202@nut-n-but.net> Anny Ballardini wrote: > There are many other ways of seeing it, for ex.: that Joseph is > a demanding and respectable academic, that Suzanne Baran is not only a > computer programmer but also working on a huge project, we also > learned a new word: "..." the meaning of which is "break and > manipulate;" we also came to know a new member, hello! And that > Finnegan is a car man (no horses for him, :-)) > > by this I am not saying that Bob is not guilty, ... I tried to be, but Joe outdid me. Then the appearance of the dreaded F-word rendered me stone-silent for hours. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080517/2c21b786/attachment.html From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sat May 17 22:23:08 2008 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:47 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] World's worst poet from edward mycue In-Reply-To: <6EA5E1A7F80D4F4F923021E7D3DCFD82@AnnyPC> References: <2d5ffa0b0805171519t11e3edb0ib0170990886d6681 @mail.gmail.com> <6EA5E1A7F80D4F4F923021E7D3DCFD82@AnnyPC> Message-ID: <482F930C.9040304@nut-n-but.net> > We can also learn that Amy is the John Madden of the poetry thread > list! Nice play-by-play. Back to the topic at hand -- Cormac > McCarthy -- love the quote. Very apropos. > > On Sat, May 17, 2008 at 3:15 PM, Anny Ballardini > > wrote: > > There are many other ways of seeing it, for ex.: that Joseph > is a demanding and respectable academic, that Suzanne Baran is > not only a computer programmer but also working on a huge > project, we also learned a new word: "..." the meaning of > which is "break and manipulate;" we also came to know a new > member, hello! And that Finnegan is a car man (no horses for > him, :-)) > > by this I am not saying that Bob is not guilty, ... > > continuing with my Cormac McCarthy: > > He understood what the priest could not. That what we seek is > the worthy adversary. For we strike out to fall flailing > through demons of wire and crepe and we long for something of > substance to oppose us. Something to contain us or to stay our > hand. Otherwise there were no boundaries to our own being and > we too must extend our claims until we lose all definition. > Until we must be swallowed up at last by the very void to > which we wished to stand opposed. > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* JforJames@aol.com > *To:* new-poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > > *Sent:* Saturday, May 17, 2008 11:23 PM > *Subject:* Re: [New-Poetry] World's worst poet from edward > mycue > > In a message dated 5/17/2008 5:03:01 PM Eastern Daylight > Time, screwzbaran@gmail.com > writes: > > no longer wish to engage in acrimonious discussions > about the SGI, Buddhism, Daisaku Ikeda (UN Peace > Ambassador). I was simply trying to defend personal > attacks on my Buddhist practice, my character > > I think Suzanne is correct here. Bob > (inadvertently) started this whole row by misattributing > the quote appended to her original email. She said she > wasn't under the spell of and cult and we should take that > at face value. > Something said got Joe on his high horse, which he mounted > with a fucking flying bound. > Note: Bob Grumman is always to blame. At least on this list. > Finnegan > > At last, Proper Respect! --Bob G. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080517/622963a7/attachment.html From Opus40-01 at opus40.org Sat May 17 22:04:59 2008 From: Opus40-01 at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:47 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] World's worst poet In-Reply-To: <482F1211.6000006@ntlworld.com> References: <482F1211.6000006@ntlworld.com> Message-ID: <482F8ECB.3060509@opus40.org> And it's kind of a shame that no one mentioned Julia A. Moore, the Sweet Singer of Michigan: TEMPERANCE REFORM CLUBS AIR -- /"Perhaps"/ Some enterprising people, In our cities and towns, Have gone to organizing clubs Of men that's fallen down; In estimation fallen low -- Now they may rise again, And be respected citizens Throughout our native land. CHORUS: The temperance reform club, Forever may it stand, And everyone that loves strong drink Pray, join it heart and hand. Then many a home will be bright, And many a heart made glad, It will be the greatest blessing This nation ever had. Manufacturers of strong drink Can find better employ, Than bring to ruin poor families, And thousand souls destroy, Likewise proprietors of saloons Lose many a customer; Those men now rather stay at home, That place they now prefer. Chorus -- Don't be ashamed to wear your badge Of ribbon on your breast, It shows you've joined the club to be A man among the rest. Your kindred friends will love to see You honored, sober man, And all the friends that wish you well Will help you if they can. Chorus -- Perhaps you have a mother, Likewise a sister, too; Perhaps you have a sweetheart That thinks the most of you. Perhaps you have a loving wife, And little ones at home, Their hearts rejoice to see that you Can let strong drink alone. Chorus -- Many a man joined the club That never drank a drachm, Those noble men were kind and brave They care not for the slang -- The slang they meet on every side: "You're a reform drunkard, too; You've joined the red ribbon brigade, Among the drunkard crew." Chorus -- It shows their hearts were very kind, They wish to save poor souls That loved the intoxication cup, That signed the temperance roll. Dear friends, ever keep rolling The work you have begun, Those noble men will not repent, I hope, throughout our land. Chorus -- Dr. Reynolds is a noble man, He has worked hard to save Some people in our cities and towns, From out a drunkard's grave. There is other men to help him now, He lectures not alone Many a heart that blesses them From out now happy homes. David Bircumshaw wrote: > I think it's quite amusing that the lamentable McGonagall, pelted with > tomatoes in life and laughed at still in death, has inadvertently > provoked such a long and argumentative thread, with barely a mention > of his flatfooted Musings included. 'Twas ever thus, O Sage of Tay. > I do believe one of the before-mentioned Spasmodics was a kind of > poetical mentor to him. I object, though, to Daisaku Ikeda's anodyne > null-poetry being suggested as competition for McGonagall's crown of > donkey's ears, Dundee's greatest poet +aspires+ to the heights of > incompetence, he suffered for his lack of art, by his eternal > mediocrity we are at last reminded what good poetry is supposed to be, > it's no wonder his star is on the increase in an age unpoets and their > negations of language are feted, when critics who can barely write a > paragraph of comprehensible English are made lawgivers of taste, he > alone still sets a standard by which all others can be judged, in him > the sanctity of the Author is restored, all sincerity is returned to > verse, no-one, no-one could have written so badly and have ruined > their life for it without having meant every word, honours he > disdained and the world's false gee-gaws contemned, and all the > would-be managers of culture and minds he confutes and thwarts. > -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ The moral is this: in American verse, The better you are, the pay is worse. --Corey Ford From grahamd at ripon.edu Sat May 17 22:14:30 2008 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:48 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re:World's worst poet In-Reply-To: <482F8ECB.3060509@opus40.org> References: <482F1211.6000006@ntlworld.com> <482F8ECB.3060509@opus40.org> Message-ID: <30E2703E-7212-43E3-B136-704092A041B4@ripon.edu> No, Tad, it's a shame that you don't read every word of all my golden posts! ======================================== David Graham grahamd@ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.mac.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== On May 17, 2008, at 9:04 PM, TheOldMole wrote: > And it's kind of a shame that no one mentioned Julia A. Moore, the > Sweet Singer of Michigan: > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080517/62474195/attachment.html From Opus40-01 at opus40.org Sat May 17 23:10:55 2008 From: Opus40-01 at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:48 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re:World's worst poet In-Reply-To: <30E2703E-7212-43E3-B136-704092A041B4@ripon.edu> References: <482F1211.6000006@ntlworld.com> <482F8ECB.3060509@opus40.org> <30E2703E-7212-43E3-B136-704092A041B4@ripon.edu> Message-ID: <482F9E3F.2050901@opus40.org> Oh, no! I always read your posts, David...but this thread has gotten so long and acrimonious (I don't do acrimony) that I may have skipped one or two of even the non-ack ones. I had not realized that the Sweet Singer of Michigan wrote what has become the folk song "Puttin' on the Style," most memorably performed by the great Lonnie Donegan. David Graham wrote: > No, Tad, it's a shame that you don't read every word of all my golden > posts! > > > ======================================== > David Graham > grahamd@ripon.edu > > Home Page: > http://web.mac.com/drjazz > > Poetry Library: > http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html > ========================================== > > > > > On May 17, 2008, at 9:04 PM, TheOldMole wrote: > >> And it's kind of a shame that no one mentioned Julia A. Moore, the >> Sweet Singer of Michigan: >> >> > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ The moral is this: in American verse, The better you are, the pay is worse. --Corey Ford From Opus40-01 at opus40.org Sat May 17 23:12:28 2008 From: Opus40-01 at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:48 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] World's worst poet from edward mycue In-Reply-To: <482F9241.5060202@nut-n-but.net> References: <482F9241.5060202@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <482F9E9C.7080808@opus40.org> "by this I am not saying that Bob is not guilty" I should hope not. Bob Grumman wrote: > > > Anny Ballardini wrote: >> There are many other ways of seeing it, for ex.: that Joseph is >> a demanding and respectable academic, that Suzanne Baran is not only >> a computer programmer but also working on a huge project, we also >> learned a new word: "..." the meaning of which is "break and >> manipulate;" we also came to know a new member, hello! And that >> Finnegan is a car man (no horses for him, :-)) >> >> by this I am not saying that Bob is not guilty, ... > I tried to be, but Joe outdid me. Then the appearance of the dreaded > F-word rendered me stone-silent for hours. > > --Bob > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ The moral is this: in American verse, The better you are, the pay is worse. --Corey Ford From jfq at myuw.net Sun May 18 00:46:59 2008 From: jfq at myuw.net (Jason Quackenbush) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:48 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] World's worst poet from edward mycue In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2B5EE287-D113-4C07-B95A-D9480AD53061@myuw.net> Hey now, I was early and instrumental in this derailment. i want my share of the blame too. Bob can't have all of it. On May 17, 2008, at 2:23 PM, JforJames@aol.com wrote: > > In a message dated 5/17/2008 5:03:01 PM Eastern Daylight Time, > screwzbaran@gmail.com writes: > > no longer wish to engage in acrimonious discussions about the SGI, > Buddhism, > Daisaku Ikeda (UN Peace Ambassador). I was simply trying to defend > personal > attacks on my Buddhist practice, my character > > > I think Suzanne is correct here. Bob (inadvertently) started this > whole row > by misattributing the quote appended to her original email. She > said she > wasn't under the spell of and cult and we should take that at face > value. > Something said got Joe on his high horse, which he mounted with a > fucking > flying bound. > Note: Bob Grumman is always to blame. At least on this list. > Finnegan > > > > **************Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists > on family > favorites at AOL Food. > (http://food.aol.com/dinner-tonight?NCID=aolfod00030000000001) > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From anny.ballardini at tin.it Sun May 18 02:33:30 2008 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:48 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] World's worst poet from edward mycue In-Reply-To: <2B5EE287-D113-4C07-B95A-D9480AD53061@myuw.net> References: <2B5EE287-D113-4C07-B95A-D9480AD53061@myuw.net> Message-ID: <73FD99E3A4BC4AE682C890930D3BDDAB@AnnyPC> I definitely agree that we should keep an eye on that terrible Jason. And the other eye on the Golden Leaves Gently Suspended on Ether by David. From: "Jason Quackenbush" Sent: Sunday, May 18, 2008 6:46 AM > Hey now, I was early and instrumental in this derailment. i want my > share of the blame too. Bob can't have all of it. > From david.bircumshaw at ntlworld.com Sun May 18 05:15:24 2008 From: david.bircumshaw at ntlworld.com (David Bircumshaw) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:48 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] World's worst poet In-Reply-To: References: <482F1211.6000006@ntlworld.com> Message-ID: <482FF3AC.8050801@ntlworld.com> Twas meant to give a smile, Roger > Talking of nonsense, that's a fine paragraph you spin there Davey boy. > > Roger > > On Sat, May 17, 2008 at 6:12 PM, David Bircumshaw > wrote: > >> > I think it's quite amusing that the lamentable McGonagall, pelted with >> > tomatoes in life and laughed at still in death, has inadvertently provoked >> > such a long and argumentative thread, with barely a mention of his >> > flatfooted Musings included. 'Twas ever thus, O Sage of Tay. >> > I do believe one of the before-mentioned Spasmodics was a kind of poetical >> > mentor to him. I object, though, to Daisaku Ikeda's anodyne null-poetry >> > being suggested as competition for McGonagall's crown of donkey's ears, >> > Dundee's greatest poet +aspires+ to the heights of incompetence, he >> > suffered for his lack of art, by his eternal mediocrity we are at last >> > reminded what good poetry is supposed to be, it's no wonder his star is on >> > the increase in an age unpoets and their negations of language are feted, >> > when critics who can barely write a paragraph of comprehensible English are >> > made lawgivers of taste, he alone still sets a standard by which all others >> > can be judged, in him the sanctity of the Author is restored, all sincerity >> > is returned to verse, no-one, no-one could have written so badly and have >> > ruined their life for it without having meant every word, honours he >> > disdained and the world's false gee-gaws contemned, and all the would-be >> > managers of culture and minds he confutes and thwarts. >> > >> > -- >> > >> > David Bircumshaw >> > Website and A Chide's Alphabet >> > http://homepage.ntlworld.com/david.bircumshaw/ >> > The Animal Subsides http://www.arrowheadpress.co.uk/books/animal.html >> > Leicester Poetry Society: http://www.poetryleicester.co.uk >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > New-Poetry mailing list >> > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu >> > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> > >> > > > > -- My Stuff: http://www.badstep.net/ "She went out with her paint box, > paints the chapel blue She went out with her matches, torched the > car-wash too" The Go-Betweens > _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing > list New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-p -- David Bircumshaw Website and A Chide's Alphabet http://homepage.ntlworld.com/david.bircumshaw/ The Animal Subsides http://www.arrowheadpress.co.uk/books/animal.html Leicester Poetry Society: http://www.poetryleicester.co.uk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080518/976fa32c/attachment.html From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sun May 18 07:25:30 2008 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:48 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] World's worst poet from edward mycue In-Reply-To: <2B5EE287-D113-4C07-B95A-D9480AD53061@myuw.net> References: <2B5EE287-D113-4C07-B95A-D9480AD53061@myuw.net> Message-ID: <4830122A.2000705@nut-n-but.net> Jason Quackenbush wrote: > Hey now, I was early and instrumental in this derailment. i want my > share of the blame too. Bob can't have all of it. Sorry, Jason, but seniority still counts around here! --Bob From grahamd at ripon.edu Sun May 18 11:06:45 2008 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:48 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Eine Kleinzahler Message-ID: <036CDC28-910A-4072-91E8-B4A6047FF30A@ripon.edu> Art & Youth Pliny said these lights in the grass are stars; a man walking home from his day's labor needn't lift his head skyward to tell the signs Before the heavens were busy with Sputniks and idiot beeps that Say hey! to far off worlds we ran at the lights with jars. We ran and ran until nothing was left of our bodies to spend. An ache so sweet was born those nights in the heat, in the grass, at summer's waning that we try for it years later in the dance of lust and lust's passing. Poor Swinburne, dithery and gallant in great drafty rooms, would have had this ache flogged back into him, but the heart is soon corrupted and love's accoutrements grow fierce. --August Kleinzahler. Storm Over Hackensack. Moyer Bell, 1985. ======================================== David Graham grahamd@ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.mac.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080518/7a6930d7/attachment.html From grahamd at ripon.edu Sun May 18 11:11:20 2008 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:48 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Kathleen Rooney at Anti-, & a call for submissions References: Message-ID: Steven D. Schroeder sent a message to the members of Anti- (http:// anti-poetry.com/). > Anti- Featured Poet #7 Kathleen Rooney is now live at http://anti- > poetry.com/ . Enjoy! > > Anti- wouldn't be where it is without its readers, viewers, > contributors, and artists. Issue #2 is fast approaching, and I'd > like to make the second half of the first year at least as good as > the great things I've had the privilege of publishing so far. > Please consider sending poetry or visual art, and please spread the > word to your friends/students/writers and artists of your > acquaintance. Thank you for everything! > -------------------- ======================================== David Graham grahamd@ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.mac.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080518/22064400/attachment.html From blacksox at att.net Sun May 18 14:32:07 2008 From: blacksox at att.net (blacksox@att.net) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:48 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Two Fringe Festival Events in Orlando Message-ID: <051820081832.1447.48307627000991CE000005A722230682229B0A02D29B9B0EBF98019C050C0E040D@att.net> Monday May 19, 8PM @ Cup O’ Soul & Wednesday May 21, 8:30pm @ Austins Cup O’ Soul, 906 W. Fairbanks Winter Park Featuring Poetry Ensemble of Orlando & Open Mic Get there early for a good seat POETIC MEETUP FEATURING: ROBYN WEINBAUM Robyn is a Brooklyn girl through and through. in fact, this wanna-be redhead reeks of the outer borough, when she isn't reeking of her usual BS. She has spent most of life racking up, oops, playing with numbers as a statistician and tax accountant, day jobs she admits to onlyunder duress. After her move to florida, she had a near-death experience which left her severly afflicted with hypergraphia. in addition to poetry and flash fiction, most of which can be found on her blog http://wingedunicorn0205.blogspot.com/, Robyn writes a regular column on the arts for a tampa newspaper in the vain hope of bringing an epiphany to that wasteland in the west. Her new novel, Mastermind, a nasty, depraved mystery thriller co-written with Gene Hodes, will be released may 18. Orlando Poetry Group presents: Every Third Wednesday @ Austin’s Wednesday May 21,@ 8:30pm Austin’s Coffee and Film 929 W Fairbanks Ave. Winter Park, Florida ROBYN + Book release party & Awesome Open Mic Please Join Us =FUN Hosted by Chaz Yorick’s Open Words ,& Russ Golata For directions or comments e-mail me at blacksox@att.net Or phone me at 407-403-5814 Or AUSTIN’S at 407-975-3364 Peace Russ Golata -------------- next part -------------- Skipped content of type multipart/related From Opus40-01 at opus40.org Sun May 18 17:57:31 2008 From: Opus40-01 at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:48 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] They Blinded Me With Science Message-ID: <4830A64B.2060604@opus40.org> http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/ideas/articles/2008/05/11/measure_for_measure/?page=1 -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ The moral is this: in American verse, The better you are, the pay is worse. --Corey Ford From JforJames at aol.com Sun May 18 19:38:02 2008 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames@aol.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:48 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] WorldPo: Canada Message-ID: ttp://www.thestar.com/entertainment/Books/article/426146 At play in fields of words Toronto's Alison Pick and Kevin Connolly demonstrate the variety of ways that the truly talented can freshen the language May 18, 2008 04:30 AM Barbara Carey ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ -- The Dream World by Alison Pick McClelland & Stewart, 72 pages, $17.99 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ -- Revolver by Kevin Connolly Anansi, 82 pages, $18.95 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ -- In the title poem of The Dream World, her second collection, Alison Pick writes of wanting to make "words take shape in fresh combination." That's a good job description for any poet, even nowadays, when it's commonplace for writers (including Pick and Kevin Connolly) to foreground how inadequate and untrustworthy language can be. But there are various means of freshening it up, as these Toronto authors demonstrate. **************Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family favorites at AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/dinner-tonight?NCID=aolfod00030000000001) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080518/b79d56e3/attachment.html From halvard at earthlink.net Mon May 19 00:01:01 2008 From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:48 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Submissions requested for a third Big Bridge anthology Message-ID: Friends and neighbors-- For a third mini-anthology of poems, this time inspired by / responding to / related to Barbara Guest's poem "Eating Chocolate Ice Cream: Reading Mayakovsky" and/or the various wars/insurgencies/etc. going on in the world today, please send 1-6 poems and a brief bio to me at halvard@earthlink.net with the words "Big Bridge" followed by your own name clearly in the subject line. Please, when sending attachments, send all poems in a single attachment. Also include a photo if you'd care to have one used. This mini-anthology will appear in the January 2009 issue of Big Bridge, and work received before the end of November 2008 will be considered. The current mini-anthology can be found at http://www.bigbridge.org/WAR-PAP.HTM. HJ Halvard Johnson ================ halvard@earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html ==== Eating Chocolate Ice Cream: Reading Mayakovsky Since I've decided to revolutionize my life since " decided " revolutionize " life " How early it is! It is eight o'clock in the morning. Well, the pigeons were up earlier Did you eat all your eggs? Now we shall go for a long walk. Now? There is too much winter. I am going to admire the snow on your coat. Time for hot soup, already? You have worked for three solid hours. I have written forty-eight, no forty-nine, no fifty-one poems. How many states are there? I cannot remember what is uniting America. It is then time for your nap. What a lovely, pleasant dream I just had. But I like waking up better. I do admire reality like snow on my coat. Would you take cream or lemon in your tea? No sugar? And no cigarettes. Daytime is good, but evening is better. I do like our evening discussions. Yesterday we talked about Kant. Today let's think about Hegel. In another week we shall have reached Marx. Goody. Life is a joy if one has industrious hands. Supper? Stew and well-cooked. Delicious. Well, perhaps just one more glass of milk. Nine o'clock! Bath time! Soap and a clean rough towel. Bedtime! The Red Army is marching tonight. They shall march through my dreams in their new shiny leather boots, their freshly laundered shirts. All those ugly stains of caviar and champagne and kisses have been rubbed away. They are going to the barracks. They are answering hundreds of pink and yellow and blue and white telephones. How happy and contented and well-fed they look lounging on their fur divans, chanting "Russia how kind you are to us. How kind you are to everybody. We want to live forever." Before I wake up they will throw away their pistols, and magically factories will spring up where once there was rifle fire, a roulette factory, where once a body fell from an open window. Hurry dear dream I am waiting for you under the eiderdown. And tomorrow will be more real, perhaps, than yesterday. --Barbara Guest fr. Angel Hair 5, Spring 1968 in The Angel Hair Anthology [New York: Granary Books, 2001] -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080519/1d299b94/attachment.html From anny.ballardini at tin.it Mon May 19 12:04:29 2008 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:48 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] The Poets' Corner Message-ID: Dear New Poetriests, It is with great pleasure that I am sending out a new update for the Poets' Corner with the red of geraniums, the rounded green of leaves and superb blackbirds singing at all heights in the air. Farideh Mostafavi Hassanzadeh http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=Content&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=273 Jim Leftwich http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=Content&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=274 Tom Taylor http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=Content&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=275 Bernadette Geyer http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=Content&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=276 David Graham http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=Content&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=277 Alexander Dickow http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=Content&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=278 David Amram http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=Content&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=279 Rita Dahl http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=Content&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=280 New Poems by already featured Authors: Sharon Brogan Richard http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=2276 Alan Sondheim Messay: The Mess of the True World http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=2181 Tad Richards with the continuation of SITUATIONS up to Episode XVII http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=Content&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=67 Peter Ciccariello Two whys II http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=2270 Gregory Vincent St. Thomasino Warrens http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=2277 Conklintown Road http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=2278 Under Poets on Poets: Nassira Belloula translated by Peter Thompson http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetsonpoets&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=78 As usual, the order of appearance follows the one by which I received the contributions. With my best wishes, Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080519/e62f6b45/attachment.html From anny.ballardini at tin.it Mon May 19 16:08:15 2008 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:49 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fw: [NarcissusWorks] the Poets' Corner - a new Update Message-ID: <5F27449F71384E9CB06998C9FA341ADB@AnnyPC> I am sorry for the fake links, I think it is a problem connected with the server, i.e. that I am allowed only a limited amount of outgoing mails. Since my new pc is exceptional, the mails left anyhow but the server messed them up. My blog opens them all up neatly: http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/2008/05/poets-corner-new-update.html otherwise maybe, the following links work since I am forwarding, I consider these experiments, as experimental seems everything especially after The Crossing by Cormac McCarthy, a book a dearly advise, have a good day, Anny ----- Original Message ----- From: Anny Ballardini To: anny.ballardini@tin.it Sent: Monday, May 19, 2008 9:54 PM Subject: [NarcissusWorks] the Poets' Corner - a new Update Dear Poetry Community, It is with great pleasure that I am sending out a new update for the Poets? Corner with the red of geraniums, the rounded green of leaves and superb blackbirds singing at all heights in the air. Farideh Mostafavi Hassanzadeh http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=Content&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=273 Jim Leftwich http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=Content&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=274 Tom Taylor http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=Content&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=275 Bernadette Geyer http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=Content&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=276 David Graham http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=Content&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=277 Alexander Dickow http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=Content&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=278 David Amram http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=Content&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=279 Rita Dahl http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=Content&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=280 New Poems by already featured Authors: Sharon Brogan Richard http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=2276 Alan Sondheim Messay: The Mess of the True World http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=2181 Tad Richards with the continuation of SITUATIONS up to Episode XVII http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=Content&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=67 Peter Ciccariello Two whys II http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=2270 Gregory Vincent St. Thomasino Warrens http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=2277 Conklintown Road http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=2278 Under Poets on Poets: Nassira Belloula translated by Peter Thompson http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetsonpoets&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=78 As usual, the order of appearance follows the one by which I received the contributions. With my best wishes, Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! -- Posted By Anny Ballardini to NarcissusWorks at 5/19/2008 09:48:00 PM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.20/1453 - Release Date: 5/18/2008 9:31 AM -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080519/b84a4e22/attachment.html From chris.lott at gmail.com Mon May 19 19:04:48 2008 From: chris.lott at gmail.com (Chris Lott) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:49 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] They Blinded Me With Science In-Reply-To: <4830A64B.2060604@opus40.org> References: <4830A64B.2060604@opus40.org> Message-ID: <9b1b9dab0805191604g154d5a91g539d5dde960d9953@mail.gmail.com> On Sun, May 18, 2008 at 1:57 PM, TheOldMole wrote: > http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/ideas/articles/2008/05/11/measure_for_measure/?page=1 The only thing I can think of worse than performing that kind of quantitative literary research would be reading it. Yuck. c From grahamd at ripon.edu Tue May 20 00:14:41 2008 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:49 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: They Blinded Me With Science In-Reply-To: <9b1b9dab0805191604g154d5a91g539d5dde960d9953@mail.gmail.com> References: <4830A64B.2060604@opus40.org> <9b1b9dab0805191604g154d5a91g539d5dde960d9953@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Bit of an either/or fallacy in this article, too, no? Even if you agree with the diagnosis about what's wrong with recent trends in academic criticism, the solution of making LitCrit more like science is not self-evidently the best or only cure. It's too bad the author didn't make his case for why quantative criticism is better, say, than what Helen Vendler does, or for that matter Samuel Johnson through T. S. Eliot, Hugh Kenner, Wendell Berry, Alicia Ostriker, Robert Hass, Ellen Bryant Voigt, et al. In any case, there's no reason quantitative criticism can't co-exist with other kinds. Some of my colleagues in the sciences would also argue that what's being proposed here is social science, which not everyone thinks is identical to what biologists or chemists do. I think we need more metaphorical criticism. . . . But then, I'm a poet. Once Bill Bradley, after complaining about the way modern Presidential campaigns occur, was asked what he would propose as a better way of choosing our Commander in Chief. "I prefer jump shots from the top of the key," he replied. ======================================== David Graham grahamd@ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.mac.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== On May 19, 2008, at 6:04 PM, Chris Lott wrote: > On Sun, May 18, 2008 at 1:57 PM, TheOldMole > wrote: >> http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/ideas/articles/2008/05/11/ >> measure_for_measure/?page=1 > > The only thing I can think of worse than performing that kind of > quantitative literary research would be reading it. Yuck. > > c > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080519/5e8701f2/attachment.html From jforjames at aol.com Tue May 20 16:11:05 2008 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames@aol.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:49 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] What Are Odds Quoted for Armitage and Duffy at the London Bookmakers? Message-ID: <8CA88CCC4E8BE0E-878-1A24@webmail-stg-d05.sysops.aol.com> http://entertainment.timesonline.co.uk/tol/arts_and_entertainment/article3962770.ece >From The TimesMay 20, 2008 With good rhyme - and reason Hilary Rose As job descriptions go, writing poems for the monarch doesn't seem too arduous. The Poet Laureate's pay isn't great (less than ?20,000 a year) but it's a top title that would look good on a business card, should poets laureate have such a thing, and you get to muse publicly on matters of national import, such as the death of Queen Elizabeth the Queen Mother. Whether Carol Ann Duffy wants the 400-year-old title, which she is widely tipped to be offered, is another matter. Duffy, 52, and her fellow poet Simon Armitage, who is also in the running for the post next year, were passed over ten years ago in favour of Andrew Motion. At the time this was rumoured to be because he was thought too young, and she was too ?unconventional?, for which read that she was a single mother in a lesbian relationship. Now, she is still a single mother, but her daughter is nearly a teenager, and her lesbian relationship has ended, which evidently makes her more acceptable. Who cares? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080520/eb856709/attachment.html From anny.ballardini at tin.it Tue May 20 16:40:29 2008 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:49 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] What Are Odds Quoted for Armitage and Duffy at theLondon Bookmakers? In-Reply-To: <8CA88CCC4E8BE0E-878-1A24@webmail-stg-d05.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CA88CCC4E8BE0E-878-1A24@webmail-stg-d05.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <68E735AED5A44E19845879FEAE31AE0D@AnnyPC> what a lot of chit chat. Is it so important, I am asking myself in this moment, to know who sleeps with whom and for how long? There was a sonnet by Shakespeare that said more or less the following: In all the women I loved I have always looked for you. (Which might be another lie) I am sure our English members know the number of the sonnet in question. ----- Original Message ----- From: jforjames@aol.com To: new-poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Tuesday, May 20, 2008 10:11 PM Subject: [New-Poetry] What Are Odds Quoted for Armitage and Duffy at theLondon Bookmakers? http://entertainment.timesonline.co.uk/tol/arts_and_entertainment/article3962770.ece From The TimesMay 20, 2008 With good rhyme - and reason Hilary Rose As job descriptions go, writing poems for the monarch doesn't seem too arduous. The Poet Laureate's pay isn't great (less than ?20,000 a year) but it's a top title that would look good on a business card, should poets laureate have such a thing, and you get to muse publicly on matters of national import, such as the death of Queen Elizabeth the Queen Mother. Whether Carol Ann Duffy wants the 400-year-old title, which she is widely tipped to be offered, is another matter. Duffy, 52, and her fellow poet Simon Armitage, who is also in the running for the post next year, were passed over ten years ago in favour of Andrew Motion. At the time this was rumoured to be because he was thought too young, and she was too ?unconventional?, for which read that she was a single mother in a lesbian relationship. Now, she is still a single mother, but her daughter is nearly a teenager, and her lesbian relationship has ended, which evidently makes her more acceptable. Who cares? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080520/bf9ca9c5/attachment.html From cervantes.james at gmail.com Tue May 20 16:45:48 2008 From: cervantes.james at gmail.com (James Cervantes) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:49 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] What Are Odds Quoted for Armitage and Duffy at theLondon Bookmakers? In-Reply-To: <68E735AED5A44E19845879FEAE31AE0D@AnnyPC> References: <8CA88CCC4E8BE0E-878-1A24@webmail-stg-d05.sysops.aol.com> <68E735AED5A44E19845879FEAE31AE0D@AnnyPC> Message-ID: <648208b60805201345v47fdbe6dm4ebef522e235013d@mail.gmail.com> On Tue, May 20, 2008 at 3:40 PM, Anny Ballardini wrote: > what a lot of chit chat. Is it so important, I am asking myself in this > moment, to know who sleeps with whom and for how long? There was a sonnet by > Shakespeare that said more or less the following: > *In all the women I loved I have always looked for you.* > (Which might be another lie) > Well, I'm sure it was apt and true for the moment. Which it always is. -- Dear Jimmy ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning http://www.fieralingue.it/documenti/mr_bondo.pdf http://www.poetserv.org/jvc/home/index.html http://home.earthlink.net/~jvcervantes/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/12364573@N08/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080520/20b07bcb/attachment.html From robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com Tue May 20 17:03:06 2008 From: robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com (Robin Hamilton) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:49 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] What Are Odds Quoted for Armitage and Duffy attheLondon Bookmakers? References: <8CA88CCC4E8BE0E-878-1A24@webmail-stg-d05.sysops.aol.com><68E735AED5A44E19845879FEAE31AE0D@AnnyPC> <648208b60805201345v47fdbe6dm4ebef522e235013d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <00b201c8babc$e7c0a840$4001a8c0@HP10652193472> << On Tue, May 20, 2008 at 3:40 PM, Anny Ballardini wrote: what a lot of chit chat. Is it so important, I am asking myself in this moment, to know who sleeps with whom and for how long? There was a sonnet by Shakespeare that said more or less the following: In all the women I loved I have always looked for you. (Which might be another lie) Well, I'm sure it was apt and true for the moment. Which it always is. >> Not Shakespeare but John Donne, "The Good-morrow": If any beauty I desired, and got, 'Twas but a dream of thee. It's also one of the governing tropes of Donne's "Air and Angels" -- "Twice or thrice have I loved you / Before I knew your face or name." Ultimately, it's a reflection of the Significant Other in Aristophanes' speech in Plato's Symposium. There, the crucial debate (desire and the pursuit of the whole) is between Socrates' vision of human completion as a unification with an abstract Good, versus Aristophanes' view that human completion lies in the discovery of the _human_ Other. Despite Plato loading the dice, by having Aristophanes burst into a fit of convulsive sneezing before he makes his point, Aristophanes doesn't come out of the debate too badly. Donne certainly thought so -- one way of looking at "Air and Angels" is to see Donne replacing the Socratic/Diotiman scala with Aristophanes' myth of individual lovers sundered in the Dream Time. RH. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080520/e8cf01fd/attachment.html From rog3r.day at gmail.com Tue May 20 17:10:10 2008 From: rog3r.day at gmail.com (Roger Day) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:49 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] What Are Odds Quoted for Armitage and Duffy at the London Bookmakers? In-Reply-To: <8CA88CCC4E8BE0E-878-1A24@webmail-stg-d05.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CA88CCC4E8BE0E-878-1A24@webmail-stg-d05.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: I really, really, really think CAD should be poet laureate. I think she'd be perfect for the job. I can think of no one better. She deserves every bit of those 24 sacs of port. The post would inspire her to new and giddier heights of poetastinesss. May she continue forever etc etc. Roger On Tue, May 20, 2008 at 9:11 PM, wrote: > http://entertainment.timesonline.co.uk/tol/arts_and_entertainment/article3962770.ece > From The TimesMay 20, 2008 > With good rhyme - and reason > Hilary Rose > > As job descriptions go, writing poems for the monarch doesn't seem too > arduous. The Poet Laureate's pay isn't great (less than ?20,000 a year) but > it's a top title that would look good on a business card, should poets > laureate have such a thing, and you get to muse publicly on matters of > national import, such as the death of Queen Elizabeth the Queen Mother. > Whether Carol Ann Duffy wants the 400-year-old title, which she is widely > tipped to be offered, is another matter. > Duffy, 52, and her fellow poet Simon Armitage, who is also in the running > for the post next year, were passed over ten years ago in favour of Andrew > Motion. At the time this was rumoured to be because he was thought too > young, and she was too "unconventional", for which read that she was a > single mother in a lesbian relationship. Now, she is still a single mother, > but her daughter is nearly a teenager, and her lesbian relationship has > ended, which evidently makes her more acceptable. > Who cares? > ________________________________ > Plan your next roadtrip with MapQuest.com: America's #1 Mapping Site. > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- My Stuff: http://www.badstep.net/ "She went out with her paint box, paints the chapel blue She went out with her matches, torched the car-wash too" The Go-Betweens From robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com Tue May 20 17:26:44 2008 From: robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com (Robin Hamilton) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:49 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] What Are Odds Quoted for Armitage and Duffy at theLondon Bookmakers? References: <8CA88CCC4E8BE0E-878-1A24@webmail-stg-d05.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <00d401c8bac0$35ecaed0$4001a8c0@HP10652193472> From: "Roger Day" >I really, really, really think CAD should be poet laureate. I think > she'd be perfect for the job. I can think of no one better. She > deserves every bit of those 24 sacs of port. The post would inspire > her to new and giddier heights of poetastinesss. May she continue > forever etc etc. > > Roger WTG, Roger! Either Duffy or Armitage after Andrew Motion would be like electing McCain in place of George Bush -- not quite so much of a joke but still basically more of the same. In a linguistic universe in which Heaney, Wallcott, or Edwin Morgan (to mention just a few, and leave out Tony Harrison, as he's the Ron Paul of the Laureateship) are still alive, to seriously consider either of those two is to suggest a catastrophic deficiency of the imagination. Where's U.A.Fanthorpe today? Obviously, in this analogy, the Noam Chomsky of the English Laureateship. I mean, could we actually *deal with a laureate whom we had to take seriously? RH. From robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com Tue May 20 17:43:30 2008 From: robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com (Robin Hamilton) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:49 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] The Neutered English Laureate References: <8CA88CCC4E8BE0E-878-1A24@webmail-stg-d05.sysops.aol.com> <00d401c8bac0$35ecaed0$4001a8c0@HP10652193472> Message-ID: <00db01c8bac2$8c135c80$4001a8c0@HP10652193472> In a curious way, the argument over Who Should Be GB's Pote Laureate ghosts the argument as to what to do with a reformed House of Lords. The argument against an elected Second Chamber turns on the worry about an alternative centre with political legitimacy, so easier to simply appoint a neutral laureate -- then you don't have to *worry about them. [Jeezus, how did Rowan Williams manage to be elected [?] Archbishop of Canterbury? Someone dropped the ball there.] I'd like to think we do these things better in Scotland, but I've this sneaking suspicion that Edwin Morgan was made Scotland's Makar because, frankly, any other choice would have provoked howls of laughter. Just a thot ... RH From Opus40-01 at opus40.org Tue May 20 18:02:26 2008 From: Opus40-01 at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:49 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] What Are Odds Quoted for Armitage and Duffy at theLondon Bookmakers? In-Reply-To: <00d401c8bac0$35ecaed0$4001a8c0@HP10652193472> References: <8CA88CCC4E8BE0E-878-1A24@webmail-stg-d05.sysops.aol.com> <00d401c8bac0$35ecaed0$4001a8c0@HP10652193472> Message-ID: <48334A72.4060607@opus40.org> So what are the odds? Robin Hamilton wrote: > From: "Roger Day" > >> I really, really, really think CAD should be poet laureate. I think >> she'd be perfect for the job. I can think of no one better. She >> deserves every bit of those 24 sacs of port. The post would inspire >> her to new and giddier heights of poetastinesss. May she continue >> forever etc etc. >> >> Roger > > WTG, Roger! > > Either Duffy or Armitage after Andrew Motion would be like electing > McCain in place of George Bush -- not quite so much of a joke but > still basically more of the same. > > In a linguistic universe in which Heaney, Wallcott, or Edwin Morgan > (to mention just a few, and leave out Tony Harrison, as he's the Ron > Paul of the Laureateship) are still alive, to seriously consider > either of those two is to suggest a catastrophic deficiency of the > imagination. > > Where's U.A.Fanthorpe today? Obviously, in this analogy, the Noam > Chomsky of the English Laureateship. > > I mean, could we actually *deal with a laureate whom we had to take > seriously? > > RH. > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ The moral is this: in American verse, The better you are, the pay is worse. --Corey Ford From robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com Tue May 20 18:27:08 2008 From: robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com (Robin Hamilton) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:49 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] What Are Odds Quoted for Armitage and Duffyat theLondon Bookmakers? References: <8CA88CCC4E8BE0E-878-1A24@webmail-stg-d05.sysops.aol.com> <00d401c8bac0$35ecaed0$4001a8c0@HP10652193472> <48334A72.4060607@opus40.org> Message-ID: <011e01c8bac8$a45ddee0$4001a8c0@HP10652193472> > So what are the odds? 5:1 Duffy -- she's the ultimate in safe. EXCEPT if you remember that the current PM of GB wrote his first book as a biography of Jimmie Maxton. Wouldn't it be a joke and a half if Gordon Brown was so pissed off with things that he appointed Tony Harrison as Pote Laureate? Only funnier scenario would be if they made Tom Leonard Poet L. of GB. Sad to say, but Tony Harrison is prolly the closest we can get to an ILP Laureate. RH From rog3r.day at gmail.com Wed May 21 03:02:00 2008 From: rog3r.day at gmail.com (Roger Day) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:49 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] What Are Odds Quoted for Armitage and Duffy at theLondon Bookmakers? In-Reply-To: <48334A72.4060607@opus40.org> References: <8CA88CCC4E8BE0E-878-1A24@webmail-stg-d05.sysops.aol.com> <00d401c8bac0$35ecaed0$4001a8c0@HP10652193472> <48334A72.4060607@opus40.org> Message-ID: depressing all round, but maybe that's only me. I'm in favour of seperating the post from the royal household for starters. Roger On Tue, May 20, 2008 at 11:02 PM, TheOldMole wrote: > So what are the odds? > > Robin Hamilton wrote: >> >> From: "Roger Day" >> >>> I really, really, really think CAD should be poet laureate. I think >>> she'd be perfect for the job. I can think of no one better. She >>> deserves every bit of those 24 sacs of port. The post would inspire >>> her to new and giddier heights of poetastinesss. May she continue >>> forever etc etc. >>> >>> Roger >> >> WTG, Roger! >> >> Either Duffy or Armitage after Andrew Motion would be like electing McCain >> in place of George Bush -- not quite so much of a joke but still basically >> more of the same. >> >> In a linguistic universe in which Heaney, Wallcott, or Edwin Morgan (to >> mention just a few, and leave out Tony Harrison, as he's the Ron Paul of the >> Laureateship) are still alive, to seriously consider either of those two is >> to suggest a catastrophic deficiency of the imagination. >> >> Where's U.A.Fanthorpe today? Obviously, in this analogy, the Noam Chomsky >> of the English Laureateship. >> >> I mean, could we actually *deal with a laureate whom we had to take >> seriously? >> >> RH. >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> > > -- > Tad Richards > http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ > http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ > > The moral is this: in American verse, > The better you are, the pay is worse. > --Corey Ford > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- My Stuff: http://www.badstep.net/ "She went out with her paint box, paints the chapel blue She went out with her matches, torched the car-wash too" The Go-Betweens From david.bircumshaw at ntlworld.com Wed May 21 04:16:08 2008 From: david.bircumshaw at ntlworld.com (David Bircumshaw) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:49 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] What Are Odds Quoted for Armitage and Duffyat theLondon Bookmakers? In-Reply-To: <011e01c8bac8$a45ddee0$4001a8c0@HP10652193472> References: <8CA88CCC4E8BE0E-878-1A24@webmail-stg-d05.sysops.aol.com> <00d401c8bac0$35ecaed0$4001a8c0@HP10652193472> <48334A72.4060607@opus40.org> <011e01c8bac8$a45ddee0$4001a8c0@HP10652193472> Message-ID: <4833DA48.5090109@ntlworld.com> > Wouldn't it be a joke and a half if Gordon Brown was so pissed off > with things that he appointed Tony Harrison as Pote Laureate? I like the idea, Robin, even if I'm not entirely Harrison is quite what he seems, but I think he's probably a bit too old now to want the post as the government seem to envisage it. I guess the same applies to J.H.Prynne but the idea of someone whose poems almost nobody, including it seems his acolytes, actually understand is rather interesting (only four people in the whole country really know what they mean, so I've heard) : it would have the effect of bringing the mainstream versus avant-garde war right into the focus, after all, he couldn't rely on enigmatic absence from explication any more. Peter Reading would be an interesting event: the thought of someone whose literary persona is that of a misanthrope and nihilist reading to the little kiddies is strangely appealing somehow. Duffy, though, is the favourite it seems, the Guardian had an article yesterday as well as the Times, but they mention James Fenton as another front-runner, I think he could be a good bet too. Best Dave -- David Bircumshaw Website and A Chide's Alphabet http://homepage.ntlworld.com/david.bircumshaw/ The Animal Subsides http://www.arrowheadpress.co.uk/books/animal.html Leicester Poetry Society: http://www.poetryleicester.co.uk From robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com Wed May 21 04:52:43 2008 From: robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com (Robin Hamilton) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:49 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] What Are Odds Quoted for Armitage and Duffyat theLondon Bookmakers? References: <8CA88CCC4E8BE0E-878-1A24@webmail-stg-d05.sysops.aol.com> <00d401c8bac0$35ecaed0$4001a8c0@HP10652193472> <48334A72.4060607@opus40.org> <011e01c8bac8$a45ddee0$4001a8c0@HP10652193472> <4833DA48.5090109@ntlworld.com> Message-ID: <01ed01c8bb20$08e08aa0$4001a8c0@HP10652193472> From: "David Bircumshaw" >> Wouldn't it be a joke and a half if Gordon Brown was so pissed off with >> things that he appointed Tony Harrison as Pote Laureate? > I like the idea, Robin, even if I'm not entirely Harrison is quite what he > seems, He's all too much what he seems, seems to me. As a human bean, I wouldn't cross the road to save his life, but I'd forgive him drowning small kittens for _Continuous_ and _The School of Eloquence_. But really, the only serious Left poets are Scottish. > J.H.Prynne but the idea of someone whose poems almost nobody, including it > seems his acolytes, actually understand is rather interesting The only people I know who understand Prynne are Candice Ward and Roger Collett. Both have tried to explain him to me but neither succeeded. >it would have the effect of bringing the mainstream versus avant-garde war >right into the focus, But wouldn't Prynne be *acceptable avant guard? Jeezuz, a CULibrarian, yet! > James Fenton as another front-runner, I think he could be a good bet too. Hey, I'd put money on Fenton! He'd get whatever the UK version of the New Formalist vote is. [John Lucas would approve.] {Thinking of Brit quasi-New Formalists, is Anne Stevenson ruled out as she's legally USAmerican?} Fenton could have Martin Amis and Christopher Hitchins hold his tails-coat. RH From david.bircumshaw at ntlworld.com Wed May 21 05:35:01 2008 From: david.bircumshaw at ntlworld.com (David Bircumshaw) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:49 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] What Are Odds Quoted for Armitage and Duffyat theLondon Bookmakers? In-Reply-To: <01ed01c8bb20$08e08aa0$4001a8c0@HP10652193472> References: <8CA88CCC4E8BE0E-878-1A24@webmail-stg-d05.sysops.aol.com> <00d401c8bac0$35ecaed0$4001a8c0@HP10652193472> <48334A72.4060607@opus40.org> <011e01c8bac8$a45ddee0$4001a8c0@HP10652193472> <4833DA48.5090109@ntlworld.com> <01ed01c8bb20$08e08aa0$4001a8c0@HP10652193472> Message-ID: <4833ECC5.9040808@ntlworld.com> Rob: > The only people I know who understand Prynne are Candice Ward and Roger > Collett. Both have tried to explain him to me but neither succeeded. I can get by with the earlier work but the later stuff... for a while once I thought I grasped what was going on but have had to concede I don't (with the Prynne acolytes I remember getting an earnest b-c message from one telling me in no circumstances to take any note of Candice's accounts of Prynne's poems - it seems only the initiated with access to the Master have the right to know) which brings me to: > But wouldn't Prynne be *acceptable avant guard? Jeezuz, a > CULibrarian, yet! exactly. This seems to be one of the paradoxes of the avant-garde: it claims to be politically left, and many of its members are genuinely so, but at the top of the alternative tree you seem to have an elite that is even more restrictive than the orthodox one. I get an increasing sense that the argument isn't about the fact of cultural management but about who gets to exercise it. Prynne's poems constantly place the reader in a subordinate position. > Hey, I'd put money on Fenton! He'd get whatever the UK version of the > New > Formalist vote is. > > [John Lucas would approve.] Yeah, I think it might be Fenton if neither Armitage or Duffy want the post. Best Dave -- David Bircumshaw Website and A Chide's Alphabet http://homepage.ntlworld.com/david.bircumshaw/ The Animal Subsides http://www.arrowheadpress.co.uk/books/animal.html Leicester Poetry Society: http://www.poetryleicester.co.uk From jbalizsprince at cox.net Wed May 21 05:48:47 2008 From: jbalizsprince at cox.net (judy prince) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:49 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] What Are Odds Quoted forArmitage and Duffyat theLondon Bookmakers? References: <8CA88CCC4E8BE0E-878-1A24@webmail-stg-d05.sysops.aol.com> <00d401c8bac0$35ecaed0$4001a8c0@HP10652193472> <48334A72.4060607@opus40.org> <011e01c8bac8$a45ddee0$4001a8c0@HP10652193472> <4833DA48.5090109@ntlworld.com><01ed01c8bb20$08e08aa0$4001a8c0@HP10652193472> <4833ECC5.9040808@ntlworld.com> Message-ID: <04a101c8bb27$de0fb870$6401a8c0@judy> Well . . . duh, YEAH, Dave! Now for the subtle USAmerican (me) message: Y don't you all take this lovely flip-flopping thru the Old, New, Elite, CommonFolks, PC, Regional candidates for PL to a nother level: form yr own elite: a ragtag crew of ad hoc "in yr face" yelping-mad poets---and lobby the Appointers. Not like they're gonna pick you, anyway, is it---at least in your lifetimes. ......... Too American, ain't I? Many of us don't do subtle. Judy ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Bircumshaw" To: "Robin Hamilton" ; "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views" Sent: Wednesday, May 21, 2008 5:35 AM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] What Are Odds Quoted forArmitage and Duffyat theLondon Bookmakers? > I get an increasing sense that the argument isn't about the fact of > cultural management but about who gets to exercise it. > > Dave > David Bircumshaw > Website and A Chide's Alphabet > http://homepage.ntlworld.com/david.bircumshaw/ > The Animal Subsides http://www.arrowheadpress.co.uk/books/animal.html > Leicester Poetry Society: http://www.poetryleicester.co.uk From schloss at mail.com Wed May 21 07:14:21 2008 From: schloss at mail.com (Christopher Walker) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:50 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] What Are Odds Quoted forArmitage and Duffyat theLondon Bookmakers? References: <8CA88CCC4E8BE0E-878-1A24@webmail-stg-d05.sysops.aol.com> <00d401c8bac0$35ecaed0$4001a8c0@HP10652193472> <48334A72.4060607@opus40.org> <011e01c8bac8$a45ddee0$4001a8c0@HP10652193472> <4833DA48.5090109@ntlworld.com><01ed01c8bb20$08e08aa0$4001a8c0@HP10652193472> <4833ECC5.9040808@ntlworld.com> Message-ID: <004601c8bb33$d20888c0$0600a8c0@your403379e445> Prynne's poems constantly place the reader in a subordinate position. [DB] To the text or to Prynne? How does this subordination manifest itself within the strategies Prynne uses? CW _______________________________________________ 'Life is too precious to spend it with important people.' (Harry Partch) From david.bircumshaw at ntlworld.com Wed May 21 07:15:51 2008 From: david.bircumshaw at ntlworld.com (David Bircumshaw) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:50 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] What Are Odds Quoted forArmitage and Duffyat theLondon Bookmakers? In-Reply-To: <04a101c8bb27$de0fb870$6401a8c0@judy> References: <8CA88CCC4E8BE0E-878-1A24@webmail-stg-d05.sysops.aol.com> <00d401c8bac0$35ecaed0$4001a8c0@HP10652193472> <48334A72.4060607@opus40.org> <011e01c8bac8$a45ddee0$4001a8c0@HP10652193472> <4833DA48.5090109@ntlworld.com><01ed01c8bb20$08e08aa0$4001a8c0@HP10652193472> <4833ECC5.9040808@ntlworld.com> <04a101c8bb27$de0fb870$6401a8c0@judy> Message-ID: <48340467.4030507@ntlworld.com> > Well . . . duh, YEAH, Dave! > > Now for the subtle USAmerican (me) message: Y don't you all take this > lovely flip-flopping thru the Old, New, Elite, CommonFolks, PC, > Regional candidates for PL to a nother level: form yr own elite: a > ragtag crew of ad hoc "in yr face" yelping-mad poets---and lobby the > Appointers. Not like they're gonna pick you, anyway, is it---at least > in your lifetimes. ......... Too American, ain't I? Many of us don't > do subtle. > > Judy Oh I take your point entirely Judy. Those meanderings of mine are just part of a process of clarifying to myself who's trying to sell me what. There's this very British phrase (I think it has public school origins) about being 'sold a dirty pup'. I think the thing is to get aware of where this is happening, and to demur. 'No, thanks, I don't want any today' to the doorstep salesman. There are all sorts of cultural managers, or would be ones, right down to a very local level. You can't wish away the fact of their existence, the thing is not to get caught in aspirations that effectively draw you into the same role. To go one's own way, whistling. Best Dave -- David Bircumshaw Website and A Chide's Alphabet http://homepage.ntlworld.com/david.bircumshaw/ The Animal Subsides http://www.arrowheadpress.co.uk/books/animal.html Leicester Poetry Society: http://www.poetryleicester.co.uk From jbalizsprince at cox.net Wed May 21 07:39:27 2008 From: jbalizsprince at cox.net (judy prince) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:50 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] What Are OddsQuoted forArmitage and Duffyat theLondon Bookmakers? References: <8CA88CCC4E8BE0E-878-1A24@webmail-stg-d05.sysops.aol.com> <00d401c8bac0$35ecaed0$4001a8c0@HP10652193472> <48334A72.4060607@opus40.org> <011e01c8bac8$a45ddee0$4001a8c0@HP10652193472> <4833DA48.5090109@ntlworld.com><01ed01c8bb20$08e08aa0$4001a8c0@HP10652193472> <4833ECC5.9040808@ntlworld.com><04a101c8bb27$de0fb870$6401a8c0@judy> <48340467.4030507@ntlworld.com> Message-ID: <068d01c8bb37$533903e0$6401a8c0@judy> Thanks, Dave. I hadn't realised the "levels" of Appointers. But I still feel (natch) that a lovely howling mob of poets actively and publicly venting their choices would: 1) rivet poetry/poets into the news; 2) cause a slight but significant attention-pause from the Appointers; 3) satisfy some poets' souls (whether they "lobby" or just read about the lobbying); and 4) make history. BTW, and Very Tangentially, your below xplanation reminds me of wot a friend heard a man from Portugal say about those who don't vote in major elections: " 'No'-votes are actually votes, after all. They tell everyone 'We don't want ANY of the candidates!' If there are more 'no-votes' than votes, a new election with new candidates should be mandated." Mebbe not better than "going one's own way, whistling"---but a nice recognition of reality. In the USA, at least, the 'no-vote' count is always higher than the vote count. Is it in Australia that one is fined for not voting? How have the implications of it been? Best, Judy ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Bircumshaw" To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views" Sent: Wednesday, May 21, 2008 7:15 AM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] What Are OddsQuoted forArmitage and Duffyat theLondon Bookmakers? >> Well . . . duh, YEAH, Dave! >> >> Now for the subtle USAmerican (me) message: Y don't you all take this >> lovely flip-flopping thru the Old, New, Elite, CommonFolks, PC, Regional >> candidates for PL to a nother level: form yr own elite: a ragtag crew >> of ad hoc "in yr face" yelping-mad poets---and lobby the Appointers. Not >> like they're gonna pick you, anyway, is it---at least in your lifetimes. >> ......... Too American, ain't I? Many of us don't do subtle. >> >> Judy > Oh I take your point entirely Judy. Those meanderings of mine are just > part of a process of clarifying to myself who's trying to sell me what. > There's this very British phrase (I think it has public school origins) > about being 'sold a dirty pup'. I think the thing is to get aware of where > this is happening, and to demur. 'No, thanks, I don't want any today' to > the doorstep salesman. > There are all sorts of cultural managers, or would be ones, right down to > a very local level. You can't wish away the fact of their existence, the > thing is not to get caught in aspirations that effectively draw you into > the same role. To go one's own way, whistling. > > Best > > Dave > > -- > > David Bircumshaw > Website and A Chide's Alphabet > http://homepage.ntlworld.com/david.bircumshaw/ > The Animal Subsides http://www.arrowheadpress.co.uk/books/animal.html > Leicester Poetry Society: http://www.poetryleicester.co.uk > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > From david.bircumshaw at ntlworld.com Wed May 21 07:46:38 2008 From: david.bircumshaw at ntlworld.com (David Bircumshaw) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:50 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] What Are Odds Quoted forArmitage and Duffyat theLondon Bookmakers? In-Reply-To: <004601c8bb33$d20888c0$0600a8c0@your403379e445> References: <8CA88CCC4E8BE0E-878-1A24@webmail-stg-d05.sysops.aol.com> <00d401c8bac0$35ecaed0$4001a8c0@HP10652193472> <48334A72.4060607@opus40.org> <011e01c8bac8$a45ddee0$4001a8c0@HP10652193472> <4833DA48.5090109@ntlworld.com><01ed01c8bb20$08e08aa0$4001a8c0@HP10652193472> <4833ECC5.9040808@ntlworld.com> <004601c8bb33$d20888c0$0600a8c0@your403379e445> Message-ID: <48340B9E.4040706@ntlworld.com> > > > Prynne's poems constantly place the reader in a subordinate position. [DB] > > > To the text or to Prynne? How does this subordination manifest itself within > the strategies Prynne uses? > > CW Ultimately, to Prynne via the text. You will find Prynne advocates, like John Kinsella, telling how Prynne's poems use knowledge from a whole range of linguistic and scientific disciplines, but with the texts, for the reader, there's no indication which disciplines these are, the reader is left in the dark about the allusions, guessing, and requiring an authorised explainer. The same applies to his strategies. To my mind his poems are subtly totalitarian environments. They alienate the reader from language, and it is only by an act of submission that you are allowed it back. It's a poetry of moral pedagogy. One thing I know about Prynne is that he's not comfortable about the theatre. Puritans on the Cam seldom are. Even though they go to it. Robin a few posts back mentioned the Platonic choice between Socrates and Aristophanes. I'd go for Aristophanes anyday, or Shakespeare rather than Milton. Best Dave -- David Bircumshaw Website and A Chide's Alphabet http://homepage.ntlworld.com/david.bircumshaw/ The Animal Subsides http://www.arrowheadpress.co.uk/books/animal.html Leicester Poetry Society: http://www.poetryleicester.co.uk From david.bircumshaw at ntlworld.com Wed May 21 11:14:01 2008 From: david.bircumshaw at ntlworld.com (David Bircumshaw) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:50 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] What Are OddsQuoted forArmitage and Duffyat theLondon Bookmakers? In-Reply-To: <068d01c8bb37$533903e0$6401a8c0@judy> References: <8CA88CCC4E8BE0E-878-1A24@webmail-stg-d05.sysops.aol.com> <00d401c8bac0$35ecaed0$4001a8c0@HP10652193472> <48334A72.4060607@opus40.org> <011e01c8bac8$a45ddee0$4001a8c0@HP10652193472> <4833DA48.5090109@ntlworld.com><01ed01c8bb20$08e08aa0$4001a8c0@HP10652193472> <4833ECC5.9040808@ntlworld.com><04a101c8bb27$de0fb870$6401a8c0@judy> <48340467.4030507@ntlworld.com> <068d01c8bb37$533903e0$6401a8c0@judy> Message-ID: <48343C39.4080002@ntlworld.com> > BTW, and Very Tangentially, your below xplanation reminds me of wot a > friend heard a man from Portugal say about those who don't vote in > major elections: " 'No'-votes are actually votes, after all. They > tell everyone 'We don't want ANY of the candidates!' If there are > more 'no-votes' than votes, a new election with new candidates should > be mandated." > > Mebbe not better than "going one's own way, whistling"---but a nice > recognition of reality. In the USA, at least, the 'no-vote' count is > always higher than the vote count. Is it in Australia that one is > fined for not voting? How have the implications of it been? Yeah, Judy. In Australia I understand that what happens is that if you don't vote then your vote is counted towards the poll for the sitting candidate. And you get a fine! Apart from whistling I do little things locally and hope that the right kind of effects ripple from my small self's acts. What to do about voting in future elections, though, that's a headache. It seems to be a choice of by whom do I prefer to be kicked in the face! Best Dave -- David Bircumshaw Website and A Chide's Alphabet http://homepage.ntlworld.com/david.bircumshaw/ The Animal Subsides http://www.arrowheadpress.co.uk/books/animal.html Leicester Poetry Society: http://www.poetryleicester.co.uk From halvard at earthlink.net Wed May 21 13:39:22 2008 From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:50 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] On Passing Up $4.29 Gas at the Ohio-Indiana Border Message-ID: On Passing Up $4.29 Gas at the Ohio-Indiana Border It's a matter of faith, you see . . . faith that somewhere farther west gasoline will be cheaper than here, faith that the gasoline left in our tank will hold out until then, will manage to get us there. Faith is a funny business. When blind, it can lead us into temptation and things much more dangerous. Like tarpits, for example, where we'd struggle to ex- tricate ourselves until we were so weak that we'd just topple over, our own weight pulling us down into the blackness of extinction. Faith is no laughing matter when shove comes to push, when oil at two hundred dollars a barrel will be just a fond memory, the image of that last filling station disappearing, fading, shrinking to nothing in our rearview mirror. Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard@earthlink.net halvard@gmail.com http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080521/d4b7c87c/attachment.html From anny.ballardini at tin.it Wed May 21 13:41:15 2008 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:50 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fw: EAAS-L INFO: "Against the Grain: Reading Pynchon'sCounternarratives", International Pynchon Week 2008 in Munich, Germany, June 11-14, 2008. Message-ID: >From: Sascha P?hlmann [mailto:poehlmann@lmu.de] >Sent: Tuesday, May 20, 2008 10:42 PM "Against the Grain: Reading Pynchon's Counternarratives" International Pynchon Week 2008 June 11-14 Amerika Haus Ludwig-Maximilians-Universit?t Munich, Germany What better place to discuss Pynchon's new novel Against the Day (and all his other texts) than in the Zone? In 2008, the biannual Pynchon conference takes place at the Amerika Haus in Munich, Germany, just as Mondaugen's city celebrates its 850th birthday (and Europe goes soccer-crazy during the European Cup). The American Studies department of the Ludwig-Maximilians-Universit?t invites scholars and students, amateurs and novices, fans and critics to get together for this four-day event. While a good share of the conference is to be dedicated to Against the Day, it is of course open to all things Pynchon. A special invitation goes out to scholars from disciplines other than literary studies. There is no participation fee. The full program and details about the location and accommodation are available at the official conference website: www.lrz-muenchen.de/~poehlmann/IPW2008/ If you have any questions, do not hesitate to get in touch with me. Regards, Sascha P?hlmann Amerika-Institut Schellingstrasse 3 / VG Ludwig-Maximilians-Universit?t 80799 M?nchen Phone: 0049 +89 2180 5820 From anny.ballardini at tin.it Wed May 21 13:42:10 2008 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:50 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] "Jack Kerouac, Kerouac's On the Road, the Beats and the Post-Beats", The University of Birmingham, UK, December 12-13, 2008. CHANGE OF DATES Message-ID: >From: Richard Ellis [mailto:r.j.ellis@bham.ac.uk] >Sent: Wednesday, May 21, 2008 9:43 AM Jack Kerouac, Kerouac's On the Road, the Beats and the Post-Beats A two day conference at: The University of Birmingham UK Friday 12 December 2008 and Saturday 13 December 2008 PLEASE NOTE CHANGE OF DATES Marking the fiftieth anniversary of On the Road's publication in the UK, in 1958 (following its 1957 publication in the US). The University of Birmingham has arranged for the 1951 original typescript manuscript of On the Road - the world-famous scroll of 1951 - to come to the Barber Institute at the University during December 2008 and January 2009. A series of events is planned to celebrate this, including a Film Event (during the evening of 12 December) timed to coincide with this two-day conference, which will likely include the UK premiere showing of One Fast Move and I'm Gone: Kerouac's Big Sur, produced by Jim Sampas. The conference will take as its central focus the 'Beats' and 'Post-Beats, including their relations to On the Road and its themes - travel, jazz, sexuality and gender, rebellion, disaffiliation and alienation, class and ethnicity. But different aspects of Beat and Post-Beat activity will also be taken in. Plenary speakers will include Tim Hunt (author of Kerouac's Crooked Road), Matt Theado and Oliver Harris. Please do come along to this exciting event and - if you wish - deliver a paper. CFP: If you want to deliver a paper please submit a title for your paper and an abstract of between 100 and 250 words for consideration to: r.j.ellis@bham.ac.uk by 31 October 2008 ....................................................... Registration form: Jack Kerouac, Kerouac's On the Road and the Beats NAME: ADDRESS: EMAIL: INSTITUTIONAL AFFILIATION (if any): REGISTRATION FEE: ?65 ($120) LATE REGISTRATION FEE (after 31 October 2008): ?75 ($140) The registration fee includes: morning coffees, afternoon teas and buffet lunches. I enclose a cheque made payable to: The University of Birmingham OR Credit Card Payment: Card Type: (delete as applicable): Visa / MasterCard / JCB / Visa Delta / Maestro (UK) / Solo (there is a 1.2% charge for credit cards) Card Holder: ........................... Card Number: ........................... Expiry Date: .../... Start Date: (if applicable) .../... Security Number (CVV): ... Issue Number: (if applicable) ... Amount to be taken: ?....... + 1.2% charge for credit cards Signature .................. Date: ./../. Accommodation options (at a range of prices) will be posted on www.uscanada.bham.ac.uk Conference Schedule: Friday 12 December 10.30-12.15 Registration, with coffee followed by conducted tour of the 1951 On the Road scroll exhibition in the Barber Institute (n.b.. the exhibition is open throughout the two-day conference, 9.00 am to 5.00 pm 12.15 BUFFET LUNCH 1.00 PLENARY (speaker: Matt Theado) 2.00-4.00 PARALLEL SESSION ONE 4.00 TEA 4.30-6.00 PARALLEL SESSION TWO 7.00 FILM EVENT (price not included in conference fee but discounted tickets available to delegates) Saturday 13 December 9.00 PARALLEL SESSION THREE 11.00 coffee 11.30 PLENARY (speaker: Tim Hunt) 12.30 BUFFET LUNCH 1.30-3.30 PARALLEL SESSION THREE 3.30 TEA 3.45-4.45 Plenary (Oliver Harris) 4.45-6.00 PARALLEL SESSION FOUR 6.00: Conference ends COMING TO THE UNIVERSITY OF BIRMINGHAM - BARBER INSTITUTE The Famous 1951 Scroll Manuscript of Jack Kerouac's On the Road Exhibition dates: 3 December 2008 -27 January 2009 An exhibition featuring the original typescript manuscript of On the Road - the world-famous On the Road scroll of 1951, timed to coincide with the fiftieth anniversary of the book's publication in the UK (1958). Much of the fame of On the Road resides in large part in the way the first full version of the novel was composed. Jack Kerouac undertook three weeks almost non-stop typing on eight sheets of teletype paper taped together to form a continuous roll of paper 127 feet long -- so that he did not have to pause to feed new paper into his typewriter, in order to preserve better the rush of his inspiration. The result was a particular 'spontaneous' style marked by energy, vitality and directness. The text that resulted is based on Kerouac's autobiographical experiences and, unlike the published version, does not disguise the protagonists under pseudonyms. Thus William Burroughs, Allen Ginsberg, Neal Cassady, etc., are all directly named. The scroll consequently has acquired iconic cultural status. Jack Kerouac remains one of the best-known and most popular post-war US writers, one with a truly global reputation. His books remain in print throughout the world. His popularity spreads worldwide. His most famous book, On the Road, is generally regarded as the founding text of the so-called Beat Generation a movement which featured, besdies such figures as Allen Ginsberg, William Burroughs and Neal Cassady, also Gregory Corso and Lawrence Ferlinghetti. This exhibition is funded by the University of Birmingham with additional contributions from the University of Birmingham's US Alumni Fund and Waterstones. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080521/eb921ee2/attachment.html From anny.ballardini at tin.it Wed May 21 13:56:53 2008 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (anny.ballardini@tin.it) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:50 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] NYTimes.com: Il Miglior Fabbro Message-ID: <200805211613.m4LGDdLp022311@wiz.cath.vt.edu> This page was sent to you by: anny.ballardini@tin.it. In sorting out all Pounds contradictions and complexity, Moody, a professor emeritus at the University of York and the author of a previous book about Eliot, is invaluable. He knows more about Pounds poetry than probably anyone else alive, and supplies careful, detailed readings of all the early books (this volume ends in 1920; a second will cover the years until Pounds death in 1972). BOOKS / SUNDAY BOOK REVIEW | January 27, 2008 Il Miglior Fabbro By CHARLES McGRATH This biography covers Ezra Pound's years as a London editor and sharp-eyed talent scout. http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/27/books/review/McGrath-t.html?emc=eta1 ---------------------------------------------------------- ABOUT THIS E-MAIL This e-mail was sent to you by a friend through NYTimes.com's E-mail This Article service. For general information about NYTimes.com, write to help@nytimes.com. NYTimes.com 620 Eighth Avenue New York, NY 10018 Copyright 2008 The New York Times Company -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080521/1d00d4f8/attachment.html From jforjames at aol.com Wed May 21 17:30:03 2008 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames@aol.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:50 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: SPD RECOMMENDS: NEW TITLES for Apr30-May21 In-Reply-To: <1653a894a4e7e4d11280026b47490d80@lists.spdbooks.org> References: <1653a894a4e7e4d11280026b47490d80@lists.spdbooks.org> Message-ID: <8CA89A0F76306EE-1220-1C35@webmail-stg-d05.sysops.aol.com> **SPD RECOMMENDS: NEW TITLES for April 30-May 21, 2008 ORDERS: 1-800-869-7553 ORDERS@SPDBOOKS.ORG FAX: 1-510-524-0852 WWW.SPDBOOKS.ORG Try Electronic Ordering! SPD is on PUBNET (SAN #106-6617) Questions? Contact Neil Alger at neil@spdbooks.org **New Poetry from Silverfish Review** COME THE HARVEST Hunter, Paul $14.95 / PA / 96pp. Silverfish Review 2008 ISBN: 978-1-878851-54-3 Poetry. From John Greenleaf Whittier and James Russell Lowell to obert Frost and Wendell Berry, every generation or two it seems a oet has to redefine our shifting relationship to the land. "Over the iver and through the woods," Americans retain their comfortable myths bout farming, and their agrarian roots, though for better or worse ost are now several generations removed from the rural life. Paul unter reaches back to 19th century practices and values, and by the nd leaps ahead to the agribusiness and suburban sprawl of the 21st entury. We are all in there somewhere, in how we value versatility nd hearken to the mystery of growth, how we both shun and are drawn o the backbreaking labor and long contemplative silences of working n the land--how we stand apart, tilling our thoughts. http://www.spdbooks.org/Details.asp?BookID=9781878851543 **New Poetry from Flood Editions** NIGHT SCENES Jarnot, Lisa $13.95 / PA / 88pp. Flood Editions 2008 ISBN: 978-0-9787467-6-6 Poetry. In NIGHT SCENES, the fourth book from best-selling poet Lisa arnot, we are returned to the "first melody" through mock archaisms, eologisms, rollicking rhymes, and childlike delight. Her circling yrics sing the pleasure of naming itself, with pastoral dreams ccasionally giving way to waking life in Brooklyn. Like William lake's songs, NIGHT SCENES privileges wonder over reason in a triumph f the imagination: "Be jumpy / or unhinged / with joy / enlightened / ry cakes / Staten hoy." Be sure to check out Jarnot?s previous itles available at SPD, including the bestselling BLACK DOG SONGS and OME OTHER KIND OF MISSION. http://www.spdbooks.org/Details.asp?BookID=9780978746766 **New Poetry from Ugly Duckling Presse** RED SHIFTING Skidan, Aleksander $14 / PA / 120pp. Ugly Duckling Presse 2007 ISBN: 978-1-933254-33-3 Poetry. Cultural Writing. Essays. Translated from the Russian by enya Turovskaya and Eugene Ostashevsky. Aleksander Skidan is one of ussia's most important contemporary poets. With language that is at nce literary, cinematic, philosophical, journalistic, his innovative riting calls into question the distinction between poetry and hilosophy. In RED SHIFTING, Skidan blurs and shifts the boundaries etween the two as literary genres and as modes of discourse. His work s both lyrical and disjointed, addressing unflinchingly the literary nd historical condition of post-Soviet Russia, engaging in continuous iscourse with what Walter Benjaminwould call ?the origins of the resent crisis.? He lives in St. Petersburg where he is also a iterary and cultural critic, journalist, and translator, as well as ne of the founding members of the collaborative art and politics ublication What Is To Be Done. In 2006 he won the Andrey Bely prize or Non-Fiction. http://www.spdbooks.org/Details.asp?BookID=9781933254333 **New Poetry from Fence Books** 19 NAMES FOR OUR BAND Huffman, Jibade-Khalil $15 / PA / 88pp. Fence Books 2008 ISBN: 978-1-934200-10-0 Poetry. African American Studies. This is a young book, as its title mplies, inasmuch as rock n' roll belongs yet to the young. Its debut oncerns are those of the youth culture inasmuch as when we are young e are closer to home, to origin, to the primal disjunctions supplied y our gaps/leaps in understanding. "This is called angled feet this s called/ separate parts of faces/ this is about body parts it's alled/ wide-eyed radio hour" Huffman's poems enact a sweet mojo on he youthful territory of the hometown, of the high school, of the V-watching-music-listening experience, and we find ourselves in the Diamond Zones," where "Rehabilitation of/ the burned parent// in a owboat/ a knock-kneed// the mind tries/ to find speaking" A series f sporadically appearing poems with the title "Very Early in the Life f Jerome" acts as a placeholder in the reading mind for these erritories, enacted as they are in the comfortable vernacular of mmediate, casual speech: "When I am fourteen on the diving board, lease start by saying I am fifteen and deny you were ever there." ther poems allow for a steeper climb on the merry-go-round of ssociative logic, by which we are given to understand this poet's ffortless commitment to literary surfaces. "What intimate, white enter// of competing flames, starling/ who was afraid that day// for hat life, what has only// meant a drum contained/ whole order escribed in titles// third in order, as was tardy again// when in, ithout ending." Jibade-Khalil Huffman was born in Detroit and grew up n Florida. His awards include the Grolier Poetry Prize. A graduate of ard College and Brown University, he lives in New York. http://www.spdbooks.org/Details.asp?BookID=9781934200100 **New Fiction from TSAR Publications** THE CHINESE KNOT AND OTHER STORIES Chao, Lien $18.95 / PA / 176pp. TSAR Publications 2008 ISBN: 978-1-894770-43-9 Fiction. Asian American Studies. In this new collection, ward-winning author Lien Chao weaves together ten emotionally charged hort stories focusing on Chinese immigrants in Toronto's multiracial eighbourhoods. In Chinatown and mixed neighborhoods, in condos and enements, in public parks and in college, the protagonists of these tories find love, face loneliness, confront generational crises, and vercome racial stereotypes as they evolve and grow in this exciting, ver-changing multicultural society. Lien Chao has observed Chinese ife through her work in the community as well as her interactions ith Chinese immigrants in ESL classrooms. She came to Canada in 1984. er first book, Beyond Silence: Chinese Canadian Literature in nglish, was published in 1997 and won the Gabrielle Roy Award for anadian Criticism. Her works include Maples and the Stream and More han Skin Deep (poetry), Tiger Girl (Hu Nu) (memoir), and STRIKE THE OK: AN ANTHOLOGY OF CONTEMPORARY CHINESE CANADIAN FICTION anthology). http://www.spdbooks.org/Details.asp?BookID=9781894770439 **New Poetry from New Issues** THE HEADLESS SAINTS Hardy, Myronn $14 / PA / 85pp. New Issues Poetry & Prose 2008 ISBN: 978-1-930974-76-0 Poetry. African American Studies. "Myronn Hardy's THE HEADLESS AINTS is a book comprised of lyrical epiphanies that embrace the veryday and the mythical, and there is no way to escape the full hrust of these marvelous poems. The tropical feel in THE HEADLESS AINTS, in the pace and space of the crafted imagery, is tangible and elievable"--Yusef Komunyakaa. "These spare, clear-eyed verses are emarkable for the ease with which they reveal a poet of ambitious ntelligence and well-honed craft. Myronn Hardy has written a ollection of quietly combustible poems that remind us of just what a ifted poet's deftly judicious craft can produce in music and motion"--Kwame Dawes. http://www.spdbooks.org/Details.asp?BookID=9781930974760 **New Poetry from Four Way Books** DEGREES OF LATITUDE Blossom, Laurel $14.95 / PA / 70pp. Four Way Books 2007 ISBN: 978-1-884800-80-1 Poetry. Laurel Blossom's DEGREES OF LATITUDE is a book-length poem, eally, divided by section breaks to give air. These are short ections, for the most part, and breezy. This is a book-length arrative that covers family and personal history and moves seamlessly hrough time and space. Writes Carolyn Forche, " almost a yric novel, so sweepingly re-imagined is the life it illuminates, but t is as well an expedition into territory seldom explored in lyric ode. Blossom begins her journey on an ice-breaker during the white ights of a polar north--cold as childhood--and then turns her gaze pon the uncharted regions of family history, secrecy and illusion, ravely and with uncommon self-knowledge, in deft and beautifully adenced language that belies the arduousness of her task. This work rosses, formally and insightfully, the traditional borders of onfession and memoir, and moves into the unknown, mapping what is isible as well as what has, until now, been hidden. I have been aiting a long time to read this book, and it is very much worth the ait. http://www.spdbooks.org/Details.asp?BookID=9781884800801 **New Poetry from Hanging Loose Press** OPENING DAY Corbett, William $16 / PA / 132pp. Hanging Loose Press 2008 ISBN: 978-1-931236-86-7 Poetry. William Corbett is a poet who lives in Boston's South End nd is Director of Student Writing Activities in MIT's Program in riting and Humanistic Studies. He writes frequently on art, directs he small press Pressed Wafer and is on the advisory board of anhattan's CUE Art Foundation. Among his books are the memoirs urthering My Education and Philip Guston's Late Work: A Memoir. He dited JUST THE THING: SELECTED LETTERS OF JAMES SCHUYLER and THE ETTERS OF JAMES SCHUYLER TO FRANK O'HARA. He is currently at work on book about the painter Albert York. http://www.spdbooks.org/Details.asp?BookID=9781931236867 **New Poetry from Ahadada Press** AGE OF THE DEMON TOOLS Spitzer, Mark $12.95 / PA / 60pp. Ahadada Books 2008 ISBN: 978-0-9808873-1-0 Poetry. "You have to slow down, and absorb calmly, the procession of ritty, pointillist gnarls of poesy that Mark Spitzer wittily weaves nto his book. Just the title, AGE OF THE DEMON TOOLS, is so ppropriate in this horrid age of inappropriate technology--you know, orruptly programmed voting machines, drones with missiles hovering bove huts, and mind reading machines looming just a few years into he demon-tool future. When you do slow down, and tarry within pitzer's neologism-packed litanies, you will find the footprints of ards such as Allen Ginsberg, whose tradition of embedding current vents into the flow of poesy is one of the great beacons of the new entury"--Ed Sanders. "Only dumbfucks will not read this book and xult. Spitzer's furious epic is a supremely satisfying blasphemous orgeous cantankerous yowl for a generation of hep-infected-cats eutered by American supremidiocy. He has managed--quite un-nicely, hank you!--to tweeze every bloody splinter from our polluted and olluting culture"--Debra Di Blasi. http://www.spdbooks.org/Details.asp?BookID=9780980887310 **New Poetry from Harbor Mountain Press** CLOSING TIME Susko, Mario $14 / PA / 120pp. Harbor Mountain Press 2008 ISBN: 978-0-9815560-0-0 Poetry. If you don't yet know Mario Susko's poetry, let this be the ook you come to treasure. An international reader, Susko's popular ouTube video (by poetryvlog.com), indeed shows Mario's distinctive ragged down humanity--a tendency to survive by the absurd rather than o be torn apart by the tragic (Library Journal)--still lifting itself o the page, as if at least out of witness. What is surreal is xistential. If Bukowski had endured Croatia in war, this might be a indred result. Only, the cynic is beauty. Susko's poetry is the riend you're glad found a way to bring himself to water. http://www.spdbooks.org/Details.asp?BookID=9780981556000 **New Poetry from Pressed Wafer** BOSSTON Barrett, Ed $10 / PA / 94pp. Pressed Wafer 2008 ISBN: 978-0-9785156-4-5 Poetry. Red Sox pitcher Dice-K Masukaza, an MBTA Transit copy from elfast, the Irish mob in Southie, Fan Pier development, the Institute f Contemporary Art, fallen politician and radio talk-show host Tom inneran, the poet John Wieners, Ralph Waldo "The Rifleman" Emerson nd Deborah Hussey Thoreau, Boston School Committee member and nti-busing advocate Louise Day Hicks, State Senator Diane Wilkerson, he ever present (and ever absent) mobster and FBI informant Whitey ulger: BOSSTON completes Ed Barrett's trilogy of Boston-based prose oem novels that includes RUB OUT and KEVIN WHITE. http://www.spdbooks.org/Details.asp?BookID=9780978515645 **New Essays from Hedgerow Press** LOVING THE DIFFICULT Rule, Jane $21.95 / PA / 205pp. Hedgerow Press 2008 ISBN: 978-0-9736882-6-9 Cultural Writing. Essays. Memoir. Gay and Lesbian Studies. Political cience. Internationally acclaimed author of seven novels, prolific hort story writer and social commentator, Jane Rule compiled this inal book of essays in the months before she died in late 2007. As in er fiction and three previously published essay collections, we find ere an absorbing story-teller, a wise observer of character and a earless spokesperson for lesbian and gay rights. In some of the ssays Rule considers episodes of her own life, from infancy almost to ts end. She intersperses thoughtful commentary on political themes hat have long engaged her, such as censorship, pornography, misguided ax laws and same-sex marriage, and on literary issues such as the ature of story-telling and the role of the woman writer. There is oth laughter and grief in these essays, barely-contained anger at njustice, and a clear-eyed acceptance of what can't be changed. http://www.spdbooks.org/Details.asp?BookID=9780973688269 **New Poetry from Time Being Books** WHAT'S SO FUNNY ABOUT THE GOLDEN YEARS Milder, Ben $15.95 / PA / 96pp. Time Being Books 2008 ISBN: 978-1-56809-118-1 Poetry. "The themes Ben Milder addresses in his latest compilation f light verse, WHAT'S SO FUNNY ABOUT THE GOLDEN YEARS, allow him to issect inconvenient truths about the aging experience. But he does so ently and with humor. The tendency to believe that, somehow, we are ounger than our chronological age, the unwelcome intrusions of senior moments' into our thoughts and conversations, the need to dapt to the physical limitations imposed by our aging bodies, and any other topics are examined with wit and wisdom. All in all, this ook enhances our understanding of the process of growing old as a atural outcome of a life well-lived and emphasizes that this process ncompasses continued enjoyment, productivity, and deeply personal xperiences"--John C. Morris. http://www.spdbooks.org/Details.asp?BookID=9781568091181 **New Poetry Anthology from Bottom Dog Press** CLEVELAND POETRY SCENES: A PANORAMA & ANTHOLOGY Gibans, N./Weems, M./Smith, L., Eds $19.95 / PA / 303pp. Bottom Dog Press 2008 ISBN: 978-1-933964-17-1 Poetry. This anthology includes a detailed cultural chronology and wenty articles on various topics including Performance Poetry: Slam eams, Black Poetic Society, University Writing Programs, Presses & agazines, Poetry Web Presence, and Poetry Organizations. "Poetry has long and living history in Cleveland, Ohio, and this examination of ts past through the lens of its vibrant present is a treasure in and f itself"--Ron Antonucci. http://www.spdbooks.org/Details.asp?BookID=9781933964171 **New Poetry from Miami University Press** THE PRINTER'S ERROR Fogel, Aaron $11.95 / PA / 95pp. Miami University Press 2001 ISBN: 978-1-881163-36-7 Poetry. Both funny and serious, this second poetry collection by aron Fogel matches stories with joltingly non-narrative poems. It ixes traditional forms like the villanelle with counter-forms like ouble alliteration, nine-syllable lines, words with all the owel-letters crushed into them ("unsynchromadice"), and words with umbers interrupting the letters ("we5re"). Fogel's poems amount to hat used to be called pasquinade or menippean satire, a lower-middle lass art that refuses to buy into the easy caricatures of that class. he book includes a poem about a young man named Brat who breaks a culptural portrait of himself done by his father; a prose-poem about iddish; and a set of comic sketches about the mock-sorrows of cademic life, family aging, and the place of low jokes in poetry. http://www.spdbooks.org/Details.asp?BookID=1881163369 **New Poetry from Luna Publications** CEASEFIRE IN PURGATORY Carberry, Colin $15 / PA / 60pp. Luna Publications 2007 ISBN: 978-0-9781471-2-9 Poetry. "'History is the nightmare from which I am struggling to wake,' James Joyce wrote, and the years since he died have been even ore nightmarish, especially in his native Ireland. In a later eneration Colin Carberry wrestles with similar demons, not only at ome in Ireland but in the wide world. His poetry with its dark and right imagery expresses a vision of that struggle in a distinctive oice, Irish in its eloquent music, yet with echoes of Canada, Mexico, nd Rastafari Babylon. The settings may be purgatorial yet they're edeemed by the energy and order of the verse. The imaginative force s heightened by its containment within metrical verse, including onnets and terza rima. Redemption, the longed-for ceasefire, is chieved by hope and love. These poems are profound and moving, the eal thing, poetry such as we seldom find, both lucid and mysterious" - Kildare Dobbs. http://www.spdbooks.org/Details.asp?BookID=9780978147129 **New Fiction from Quale Press** THEY SAY Torra, Joseph $15 / PA / 172pp. Quale Press 2007 ISBN: 978-0-9792999-0-2 Fiction. THEY SAY is a novel about a working-class, first-generation talian family living in the Boston area in the first half of the 20th entury, centering on the family's struggles over oldest brother ouie, whose early artistic genius and political passions deteriorate nto delusion and severe mental illness. Narrated by various siblings n this sprawling family, their stories have the intimacy and drama of conversation told around the kitchen table--and like any living, reathing family tale, the brothers' and sisters' stories intersect, un parallel, contradict each other, fill in each other's gaps. Theirs re stories of love and luck, as well as poverty, death, illness, and omestic abuse. http://www.spdbooks.org/Details.asp?BookID=9780979299902 **New Fiction from Ghost Road Press** SEAL WOMAN Eggerz, Solveig $17.95 / PA / 170pp. Ghost Road Press 2007 ISBN: 978-0-9796255-3-4 Fiction. In the rubble of 1947 Berlin, artist Charlotte flees her ast and everything she has lost by responding to an ad calling for strong women who can cook and do farm work' in Iceland. But painful emories and ghosts follow Charlotte as she struggles to make a new ife in a raw and rugged landscape. This powerful debut novel elebrates the power of storytelling as a way of reassembling the ragments of Charlotte's broken self and move her--and everyone she oves--toward peace. http://www.spdbooks.org/Details.asp?BookID=9780979625534 **New Poetry from Ashland Poetry Press** UNDERWATER LENGTHS IN A SINGLE BREATH Grossberg, Benjamin S. $14.95 / PA / 79pp. Ashland Poetry Press 2007 ISBN: 978-0-912592-58-9 Poetry. Benjamin S. Grossberg's "is a united sensibility, the kind e usually attribute to 'The Time of Myths,' as the poet calls it. his extraordinarily rich and entertaining first book is unique...for ts eager and outrageous connections with the masters who enjoyed such ythical thinking--Shakespeare, Whitman--as well as for its daring epartures from what those same masters, so lovingly ransacked, might ver have undertaken"--Richard Howard. http://www.spdbooks.org/Details.asp?BookID=9780912592589 **New Fiction from Pleasure Boat Studios** THE WOMAN WHO WROTE 'KING LEAR' AND OTHER STORIES Phillips, Louis $16 / PA / 195pp. Pleasure Boat Studio 2008 ISBN: 978-1-929355-39-6 Fiction. This wildly imaginative collection of fourteen short tories won't move you to tears, but will very likely move you to aughter. Phillips writes about a "committee of grief," about termites n Africa, about Lee Harvey Oswald's can opener. He tells of how an ngry consumer shows his disdain for the telephone company by sending ut false bills which, ultimately, leads to the withdrawal of the tate of Iowa from the union. In one crazy piece, Phillips describes he chaos that occurs when a cat finds Thomas Hardy's heart, and, ell, devours it, disrupting plans to put the heart on display. And he rites that amazing title story: Yes, it's true. "King Lear" was enned by Radcliffe Graduate Muriel B. Hopkins, not by the esteemed illiam Shakespeare. What is the theme connecting these stories? adness, perhaps, but not only the madness of single characters-- hese stories are also about the "madness of crowds." Read these tories, but be prepared to confront new realities, some of which you ay never entirely escape. http://www.spdbooks.org/Details.asp?BookID=9781929355396 **New Poetry from Bordighera Press** LOOKING FOR COVER Fama, Maria $15 / PA / 128pp. Bordighera Press 2008 ISBN: 978-1-884419-85-0 Poetry. "LOOKING FOR COVER is Maria Fama at her best. Her poetry is lyrical invitation to a world that is richly and sensuously etailed, where everything is honored-most notably the timelessness of he ancestors and our own lives as we revisit ourselves"-Janet Mason. graduate of Temple University, Maria Fama is the author of four ther books and has been published in numerous literary journals and nthologies. Maria Fama is the recipient of numerous awards, including he Aniello Lauri Award for Creative Writing (2002 and 2005), the 1994 ream Images Poetry Award, and the Amy Tritsch Needle Award for oetry, in 2006. http://www.spdbooks.org/Details.asp?BookID=1884419852 -- f you do not want to receive any more newsletters, ttp://lists.spdbooks.org/?p=unsubscribe&uid=5db2d46d754cee5d533757975a280d55 To update your preferences and to unsubscribe visit ttp://lists.spdbooks.org/?p=preferences&uid=5db2d46d754cee5d533757975a280d55 orward a Message to Someone ttp://lists.spdbooks.org/?p=forward&uid=5db2d46d754cee5d533757975a280d55&mid=68 - owered by PHPlist, www.phplist.com -- -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080521/658b6668/attachment.html From jforjames at aol.com Wed May 21 19:04:30 2008 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames@aol.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:50 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] WorldPo: Tasmania Message-ID: <8CA89AE291569BA-171C-3F0@webmail-stg-d09.sysops.aol.com> http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/05/21/2251177.htm?section=australia Tasmanian poet wins NSW prize Posted Wed May 21, 2008 11:00am AEST Updated Wed May 21, 2008 11:35am AEST ? Kathryn Lomer has won the prestigous Kenneth Slessor Prize for poetry. Audio: Hobart writer Kathryn Lomer talks to ABC News Reporter Barbara Pongratz (ABC News) Map: Hobart 7000 ?A Hobart writer, Kathryn Lomer, has won the $30,000 Kenneth Slessor Prize for poetry. Lomer's second collection of poetry, Two Kinds Of Silence, was recognised as part of the New South Wales Premier's Literary Awards. Lomer says she did not expect to win. "I feel that I'm quite a newcomer, but awards like this give me a confidence that I'm at least on track for me, that my work is being accepted and doing well for itself," she said. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080521/88680b1b/attachment.html From jforjames at aol.com Wed May 21 21:51:38 2008 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames@aol.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:50 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] West Chester Poetry Conference Message-ID: <8CA89C582202CFF-82C-235@webmail-stg-d07.sysops.aol.com> http://www.wcupa.edu/_ACADEMICS/SCH_CAS/POETRY/Poetry_Conference/2008Conferenceprogram.asp -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080521/a709fc29/attachment.html From anny.ballardini at tin.it Thu May 22 04:59:06 2008 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:51 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] West Chester Poetry Conference In-Reply-To: <8CA89C582202CFF-82C-235@webmail-stg-d07.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CA89C582202CFF-82C-235@webmail-stg-d07.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <3EECFBDF66FA495F8F0CFB3BDB43E6EF@AnnyPC> Look who's here: SATURDAY, JUNE 7, 2008 7:00-8:00 am BREAKFAST Lawrence Center or Holiday Inn 8:15-9:45 am PANEL 11: The Contemporary Sonnet R.S. Gwynn, Chair ----- Original Message ----- From: jforjames@aol.com To: new-poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Thursday, May 22, 2008 3:51 AM Subject: [New-Poetry] West Chester Poetry Conference http://www.wcupa.edu/_ACADEMICS/SCH_CAS/POETRY/Poetry_Conference/2008Conferenceprogram.asp -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080522/9c9d18ca/attachment.html From Rsgwynn1 at cs.com Thu May 22 09:00:30 2008 From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com (Rsgwynn1@cs.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:51 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] West Chester Poetry Conference Message-ID: In a message dated 5/22/2008 4:00:48 AM Central Daylight Time, anny.ballardini@tin.it writes: > > SATURDAY, JUNE 7, 2008 > > 7:00-8:00 am > > BREAKFAST > > Lawrence Center or Holiday Inn > > 8:15-9:45 am > > PANEL 11: The Contemporary Sonnet > > R.S. Gwynn, Chair > > > > 14 years in a row! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080522/3782b7f3/attachment.html From Opus40-01 at opus40.org Thu May 22 09:13:41 2008 From: Opus40-01 at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:51 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] West Chester Poetry Conference In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <48357185.3030208@opus40.org> Talk about a contemporary sonnet! Rsgwynn1@cs.com wrote: > In a message dated 5/22/2008 4:00:48 AM Central Daylight Time, > anny.ballardini@tin.it writes: >> >> *SATURDAY, JUNE 7, 2008 * >> >> 7:00-8:00 am >> >> BREAKFAST >> >> Lawrence Center or Holiday Inn >> >> 8:15-9:45 am >> >> PANEL 11: The Contemporary Sonnet >> >> R.S. Gwynn, Chair >> >> >> > > 14 years in a row! > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ The moral is this: in American verse, The better you are, the pay is worse. --Corey Ford From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Thu May 22 17:23:15 2008 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:51 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] NYTimes.com: Il Miglior Fabbro In-Reply-To: <200805211613.m4LGDdLp022311@wiz.cath.vt.edu> References: <200805211613.m4LGDdLp022311@wiz.cath.vt.edu> Message-ID: <4835E443.30004@nut-n-but.net> Thanks for this, Anny. I more and more think Pound America's most important poetry person ever--by which I mean everything he did for poetry, not just his own poetry (which I esteem). --Bob From anny.ballardini at tin.it Thu May 22 16:40:49 2008 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:51 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] NYTimes.com: Il Miglior Fabbro In-Reply-To: <4835E443.30004@nut-n-but.net> References: <200805211613.m4LGDdLp022311@wiz.cath.vt.edu> <4835E443.30004@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <09A3F04B405A4042A9A31D80FC799DAC@AnnyPC> I agree with you, and with your permission, I might send it to Mary de Rachewiltz, poet, his daughter, his translator and supporter. From: "Bob Grumman" Sent: Thursday, May 22, 2008 11:23 PM > Thanks for this, Anny. I more and more think Pound America's most > important poetry person ever--by which I mean everything he did for > poetry, not just his own poetry (which I esteem). > > --Bob > From robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com Thu May 22 16:43:38 2008 From: robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com (Robin Hamilton) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:51 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] NYTimes.com: Il Miglior Fabbro References: <200805211613.m4LGDdLp022311@wiz.cath.vt.edu> <4835E443.30004@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <010c01c8bc4c$83a20930$4001a8c0@HP10652193472> > Thanks for this, Anny. I more and more think Pound America's most > important poetry person ever--by which I mean everything he did for > poetry, not just his own poetry (which I esteem). > > --Bob Hey, Bob, you should try teaching Pound to UK undergraduates. A hiding to nothing, as *no one* likes you for it, neither your boss(es) nor the students. *** Rates alongside trying to teach Langland outside a specialist Medieval English course. Or Skelton. Anywhere. :-( I didn't actually lose tenure for insisting on teaching Pound, but I came close. RH *** with the exception of Chinese exchange students, who lapped up Pound no bother, and usually taught me more about Pound than I taught them. R. From skip at louisiana.edu Thu May 22 16:47:43 2008 From: skip at louisiana.edu (Skip Fox) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:51 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] NYTimes.com: Il Miglior Fabbro In-Reply-To: <4835E443.30004@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: I read in unbelief. Could I totally agree with Grumman???? With his point(s) _and_ with his wording???? What's happening? Has the species entered a reality warp of some significance? Could we agree on something so central to our notion of poetry, even in a general sense? (I'd love to hear the particulars, by the way, wherefrom the esteem?, etc.) Maybe I should buy a lottery ticket. -----Original Message----- From: new-poetry-bounces@wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto:new-poetry-bounces@wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Bob Grumman Sent: Thursday, May 22, 2008 4:23 PM To: anny.ballardini@tin.it; NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] NYTimes.com: Il Miglior Fabbro Thanks for this, Anny. I more and more think Pound America's most important poetry person ever--by which I mean everything he did for poetry, not just his own poetry (which I esteem). --Bob _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From ralph at walleahpress.com.au Thu May 22 18:08:42 2008 From: ralph at walleahpress.com.au (ralph@walleahpress.com.au) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:51 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] WorldPo: Tasmania Message-ID: <59354.203.52.130.138.1211494122.squirrel@www.walleahpress.com.au> >>Lomer's second collection of poetry, >>Two Kinds Of Silence, was recognised >>as part of the New South Wales Premier's >>Literary Awards. >>Lomer says she did not expect to win. Yes, completely & genuinely unaffected, that's Kathryn; more likely to talk up the thrill of being shortlisted with Malouf et al, than the win. The write stuff - http://www.the-write-stuff.com.au/archives/vol-7/kathryn_lomer/index.html - has some poems from her first collection. Cheers, Ralph walleahpress.com.au From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Thu May 22 19:57:15 2008 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:51 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] NYTimes.com: Il Miglior Fabbro In-Reply-To: <010c01c8bc4c$83a20930$4001a8c0@HP10652193472> References: <200805211613.m4LGDdLp022311@wiz.cath.vt.edu><4835E443.30004@nut-n-but.net> <010c01c8bc4c$83a20930$4001a8c0@HP10652193472> Message-ID: <4836085B.1040702@nut-n-but.net> How do British students take to Eliot, Robin? --Bob From grahamd at ripon.edu Thu May 22 18:58:26 2008 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:51 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Il Miglior Fabbro In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5FDEDAFF-4211-4AA6-859B-CE7E5522592F@ripon.edu> Not to dispute Pound's influence, but I'd say Whitman is il miglior fabbro in American poetry. Even Pound had to grudgingly admit him as a father. ======================================== David Graham grahamd@ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.mac.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== On May 22, 2008, at 3:47 PM, Skip Fox wrote: > From: new-poetry-bounces@wiz.cath.vt.edu > [mailto:new-poetry-bounces@wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Bob Grumman > Sent: Thursday, May 22, 2008 4:23 PM > To: anny.ballardini@tin.it; NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News > &Views > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] NYTimes.com: Il Miglior Fabbro > > > Thanks for this, Anny. I more and more think Pound America's most > important poetry person ever--by which I mean everything he did for > poetry, not just his own poetry (which I esteem). > > --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080522/e15d9fc3/attachment.html From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Thu May 22 20:02:16 2008 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:51 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] NYTimes.com: Il Miglior Fabbro In-Reply-To: <09A3F04B405A4042A9A31D80FC799DAC@AnnyPC> References: <200805211613.m4LGDdLp022311@wiz.cath.vt.edu> <4835E443.30004@nut-n-but.net> <09A3F04B405A4042A9A31D80FC799DAC@AnnyPC> Message-ID: <48360988.90902@nut-n-but.net> Anny Ballardini wrote: > I agree with you, and with your permission, I might send it to Mary de > Rachewiltz, poet, his daughter, his translator and supporter. Gotta pay me for the copyright, Anny!!!! But you can steal it. None of my lawyers is any good at copyright law. Seriously, I'm stunned that you would think my opinion would be worth sharing with the people you mention, but pleased you do. --Bob From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Thu May 22 20:07:22 2008 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:51 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] NYTimes.com: Il Miglior Fabbro In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <48360ABA.4050407@nut-n-but.net> Skip Fox wrote: > I read in unbelief. > > Could I totally agree with Grumman???? With his point(s) _and_ with his > wording???? What's happening? Has the species entered a reality warp of some > significance? Could we agree on something so central to our notion of > poetry, even in a general sense? (I'd love to hear the particulars, by the > way, wherefrom the esteem?, etc.) > > Maybe I should buy a lottery ticket. Haw, I'm so out of it that I thought you were one of my supporters, Skip! As for the particulars, I don't want to spoil our agreement by mentioning any. Now. I do wish I had time to write an essay on my view of Pound--though I really don't think I'd have anything to say about him no one else has already said. --Bob From robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com Thu May 22 19:50:54 2008 From: robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com (Robin Hamilton) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:51 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] NYTimes.com: Il Miglior Fabbro References: <200805211613.m4LGDdLp022311@wiz.cath.vt.edu><4835E443.30004@nut-n-but.net> <010c01c8bc4c$83a20930$4001a8c0@HP10652193472> <4836085B.1040702@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <002f01c8bc66$ac98a4b0$4001a8c0@HP10652193472> > How do British students take to Eliot, Robin? > > --Bob Not nearly so problematic, Bob, partly since Eliot reinvented himself as a Brit. And you can teach Prufrock pretty safely. (Though I never tried, and that leaves aside the whole March Hare, "How American is Eliot?" business, with those strange sawdust bars with oyster shells .) It's odd, and this baffled me -- can't just be (for the students) the question of "difficulty", as Eliot is easily as "difficult" as Pound. Dunno ... Even trying via _Lustra_ and _Cathay_, I never succeeded. I'd guess this might play differently in Scotland. There are on the whole some people you simply don't teach for various reasons -- I crashed over trying to teach Stevie Smith because it's virtually impossible to deal with the nature of her rhythms, and but nobody tries to teach Robert Graves. I'd like to blame this to a large degree on the availability of accessible texts, but when I constructed a course dealing with Gascoigne and Greville, with an anthology that I put together myself -- adopted at Glasgow, Oxford, and Loughborough but nowhere else -- that crashed too. The bankers are Shakespeare and American Literature -- on a level playing field, you can sign up a full course for either of those those in the UK simply by offering them. The kiss of death is the Long Eighteenth Century ... But don't start me on teaching Scottish literature in an English university. I succeeded well beyond my expectations there, but there were reasons tied into how the course was the One Safe Area in the middle of a *really bad politically-correct meltdown. Robin From skip at louisiana.edu Thu May 22 20:07:10 2008 From: skip at louisiana.edu (Skip Fox) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:51 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] NYTimes.com: Il Miglior Fabbro In-Reply-To: <48360ABA.4050407@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <1CE4E412946E4833B8F081ECFF7C3266@win.louisiana.edu> I _am_ one of your supporters. No doubt. Just that I rarely find myself so thoroughly and readily in agreement since your views are often so individual and held in such an individual manner, with such unique emphasis and interesting "torque," etc. -----Original Message----- From: new-poetry-bounces@wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto:new-poetry-bounces@wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Bob Grumman Sent: Thursday, May 22, 2008 7:07 PM To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] NYTimes.com: Il Miglior Fabbro Skip Fox wrote: > I read in unbelief. > > Could I totally agree with Grumman???? With his point(s) _and_ with his > wording???? What's happening? Has the species entered a reality warp of some > significance? Could we agree on something so central to our notion of > poetry, even in a general sense? (I'd love to hear the particulars, by the > way, wherefrom the esteem?, etc.) > > Maybe I should buy a lottery ticket. Haw, I'm so out of it that I thought you were one of my supporters, Skip! As for the particulars, I don't want to spoil our agreement by mentioning any. Now. I do wish I had time to write an essay on my view of Pound--though I really don't think I'd have anything to say about him no one else has already said. --Bob _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Thu May 22 23:03:51 2008 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:51 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Il Miglior Fabbro In-Reply-To: <5FDEDAFF-4211-4AA6-859B-CE7E5522592F@ripon.edu> References: <5FDEDAFF-4211-4AA6-859B-CE7E5522592F@ripon.edu> Message-ID: <48363417.6020109@nut-n-but.net> David Graham wrote: > Not to dispute Pound's influence, but I'd say Whitman is il miglior > fabbro in American poetry. Even Pound had to grudgingly admit him as > a father. My quick response would be that Pound influenced many different kinds of poetry, Williams only one. As I wrote that, I only then saw you said Whitman. Whitman influenced Ginsberg. Seriously, it's difficult to say how much and how each influenced American Poetry. A lot of contemporary poetry has nothing in common with Whitman, but I can't think of much that has nothing in common with Pound. Another problem with Whitman is figuring out what he passed on that wasn't Emerson. Except for the psalmic style. I'm just thinking out loud. But I was talking what Pound did as poet, critic, editor, agitator, befriender, not about how influential he was. --Bob G. From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Thu May 22 23:09:34 2008 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:51 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] NYTimes.com: Il Miglior Fabbro In-Reply-To: <002f01c8bc66$ac98a4b0$4001a8c0@HP10652193472> References: <200805211613.m4LGDdLp022311@wiz.cath.vt.edu><4835E443.30004@nut-n-but.net><010c01c8bc4c$83a20930$4001a8c0@HP10652193 472><4836085B.1040702@nut-n-but.net> <002f01c8bc66$ac98a4b0$4001a8c0@HP10652193472> Message-ID: <4836356E.20804@nut-n-but.net> Robin Hamilton wrote: >> How do British students take to Eliot, Robin? >> >> --Bob > > Not nearly so problematic, Bob, partly since Eliot reinvented himself > as a > Brit. True. > > And you can teach Prufrock pretty safely. > > (Though I never tried, and that leaves aside the whole March Hare, "How > American is Eliot?" business, with those strange sawdust bars with oyster > shells .) > > It's odd, and this baffled me -- can't just be (for the students) the > question of "difficulty", as Eliot is easily as "difficult" as Pound. > Dunno > ... Even trying via _Lustra_ and _Cathay_, I never succeeded. Well, Eliot is never as boringly bad as Pound sometimes is. But he did a lot of very accessible stuff, it seems to me. It IS strange. > > I'd guess this might play differently in Scotland. > > There are on the whole some people you simply don't teach for various > reasons -- I crashed over trying to teach Stevie Smith because it's > virtually impossible to deal with the nature of her rhythms, and but > nobody > tries to teach Robert Graves. > > I'd like to blame this to a large degree on the availability of > accessible > texts, but when I constructed a course dealing with Gascoigne and > Greville, > with an anthology that I put together myself -- adopted at Glasgow, > Oxford, > and Loughborough but nowhere else -- that crashed too. > > The bankers are Shakespeare and American Literature -- on a level playing > field, you can sign up a full course for either of those those in the UK > simply by offering them. > > The kiss of death is the Long Eighteenth Century ... > > But don't start me on teaching Scottish literature in an English > university. > > I succeeded well beyond my expectations there, but there were reasons > tied > into how the course was the One Safe Area in the middle of a *really bad > politically-correct meltdown. > > > > Robin > > Thanks for the interesting sketch. I don't know what goes over in American colleges. My experience in one American high school is that nothing does. But no one tries seriously to teach it. --Bob From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Thu May 22 23:11:17 2008 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:51 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] NYTimes.com: Il Miglior Fabbro In-Reply-To: <1CE4E412946E4833B8F081ECFF7C3266@win.louisiana.edu> References: <1CE4E412946E4833B8F081ECFF7C3266@win.louisiana.edu> Message-ID: <483635D5.3090004@nut-n-but.net> Skip Fox wrote: > I _am_ one of your supporters. No doubt. Just that I rarely find myself so > thoroughly and readily in agreement since your views are often so individual > and held in such an individual manner, with such unique emphasis and > interesting "torque," etc. > Thanks, Skip. Yeah, the torque! Does that include occasional flares of Huge Hostility? --Bob From david.bircumshaw at ntlworld.com Fri May 23 02:58:06 2008 From: david.bircumshaw at ntlworld.com (David Bircumshaw) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:51 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] NYTimes.com: Il Miglior Fabbro In-Reply-To: <483635D5.3090004@nut-n-but.net> References: <1CE4E412946E4833B8F081ECFF7C3266@win.louisiana.edu> <483635D5.3090004@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <48366AFE.7030100@ntlworld.com> If Pound or Whitman was the father of American poetry who was the mother? Best Dave -- David Bircumshaw Website and A Chide's Alphabet http://homepage.ntlworld.com/david.bircumshaw/ The Animal Subsides http://www.arrowheadpress.co.uk/books/animal.html Leicester Poetry Society: http://www.poetryleicester.co.uk From lsgrimes at stonegulch.com Fri May 23 06:56:09 2008 From: lsgrimes at stonegulch.com (Linda Sue Grimes) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:51 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] NYTimes.com: Il Miglior Fabbro References: <1CE4E412946E4833B8F081ECFF7C3266@win.louisiana.edu><483635D5.3090004@nut-n-but.net> <48366AFE.7030100@ntlworld.com> Message-ID: <003401c8bcc3$9ca34710$0201a8c0@LindaSue> Emily Dickinson...and it was Whitman, not Pound. Pound is a stepchild. lsg ----- Original Message ----- From: David Bircumshaw To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views Sent: Friday, May 23, 2008 1:58 AM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] NYTimes.com: Il Miglior Fabbro If Pound or Whitman was the father of American poetry who was the mother? Best Dave -- David Bircumshaw Website and A Chide's Alphabet http://homepage.ntlworld.com/david.bircumshaw/ The Animal Subsides http://www.arrowheadpress.co.uk/books/animal.html Leicester Poetry Society: http://www.poetryleicester.co.uk _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080523/61527a9b/attachment.html From jeff.newberry at gmail.com Fri May 23 07:15:10 2008 From: jeff.newberry at gmail.com (Jeff Newberry) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:51 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] NYTimes.com: Il Miglior Fabbro In-Reply-To: <003401c8bcc3$9ca34710$0201a8c0@LindaSue> References: <1CE4E412946E4833B8F081ECFF7C3266@win.louisiana.edu> <483635D5.3090004@nut-n-but.net> <48366AFE.7030100@ntlworld.com> <003401c8bcc3$9ca34710$0201a8c0@LindaSue> Message-ID: <731bb17a0805230415n4a06ef40y8d154d54ccff0fdf@mail.gmail.com> I don't think Pound is *anybody's* stepchild. Jeff Newberry On Fri, May 23, 2008 at 6:56 AM, Linda Sue Grimes wrote: > Emily Dickinson...and it was Whitman, not Pound. Pound is a stepchild. > > lsg > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* David Bircumshaw > *To:* NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views > *Sent:* Friday, May 23, 2008 1:58 AM > *Subject:* Re: [New-Poetry] NYTimes.com: Il Miglior Fabbro > > If Pound or Whitman was the father of American poetry who was the mother? > > Best > > Dave > > -- > > David Bircumshaw > Website and A Chide's Alphabet > http://homepage.ntlworld.com/david.bircumshaw/ > The Animal Subsides http://www.arrowheadpress.co.uk/books/animal.html > Leicester Poetry Society: http://www.poetryleicester.co.uk > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- "Why are you wearing that stupid *man* suit?" http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080523/590e70bf/attachment.html From robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com Fri May 23 07:49:16 2008 From: robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com (Robin Hamilton) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:52 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] NYTimes.com: Il Miglior Fabbro References: <1CE4E412946E4833B8F081ECFF7C3266@win.louisiana.edu><483635D5.3090004@nut-n-but.net><48366AFE.7030100@ntlworld.com> <003401c8bcc3$9ca34710$0201a8c0@LindaSue> Message-ID: <017d01c8bccb$075cbbc0$4001a8c0@HP10652193472> Emily Dickinson...and it was Whitman, not Pound. Pound is a stepchild. lsg Emily Dickinson was the gran'daughter -- Anne Bradstreet was the mother. *** RH. (As to Whitman, this approximates to the New Formalist split between the US and the UK -- we still remember Blake, so Whitman is less of a big deal here.) But as to Emily Dickinson -- isn't she not simply the greatest 19thC US poet, but one of the five finest female [Western European] poets ever? Sappho, Anne Bradstreet, Lady Mary Wortley Montague, Emily Dickinson, Elizabeth Bishop, Stevie Smith . Sorry, that's six, isn't it? But it's a notorious fact that males are quite unable to grasp any concept of the higher mathematics. Just ask B. Grumman. The Androgynous Robin *** actually, there is a case -- has anyone made it? -- for the use of non-orthodox rhythms, dipodic and that, which draws most of the later of those ladies together, and how mostly male poets do their best to pretend they don't exist. R. (I'd throw Dorothy Parker and Edna St. Vincent Milay into the mix, but that raises at least two *other cans of worms -- light verse and gay verse. Not that (necessarily) DP and E St.V M were gay (though Sylvia Townsend Warner most certainly was, and U.A.Fanthorpe surely is) but that Edward Lear and Clough pretty certainly were. ... which brings us to just *why _The Oxford Book of Light Verse_ was edited by the author of "A Platonic Blow". Which makes you sometimes furoiusly to think. That, and why there's no satisfactory English translation of Anacreon .. Dmitri for the 4th Internatinal -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080523/e96a3002/attachment.html From jbalizsprince at cox.net Fri May 23 09:04:19 2008 From: jbalizsprince at cox.net (judy prince) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:52 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] NYTimes.com: Il Miglior Fabbro References: <1CE4E412946E4833B8F081ECFF7C3266@win.louisiana.edu><483635D5.3090004@nut-n-but.net><48366AFE.7030100@ntlworld.com><003401c8bcc3$9ca34710$0201a8c0@LindaSue> <017d01c8bccb$075cbbc0$4001a8c0@HP10652193472> Message-ID: <125601c8bcd5$832a69f0$6401a8c0@judy> Good on U, Dmitri! And add just one more female poet to your list of Western greats: Amy Shaksper, nah? Judy ----- Original Message ----- From: Robin Hamilton To: Linda Sue Grimes ; NewPoetry: ContemporaryPoetry News &Views Sent: Friday, May 23, 2008 7:49 AM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] NYTimes.com: Il Miglior Fabbro Emily Dickinson...and it was Whitman, not Pound. Pound is a stepchild. lsg Emily Dickinson was the gran'daughter -- Anne Bradstreet was the mother. *** RH. (As to Whitman, this approximates to the New Formalist split between the US and the UK -- we still remember Blake, so Whitman is less of a big deal here.) But as to Emily Dickinson -- isn't she not simply the greatest 19thC US poet, but one of the five finest female [Western European] poets ever? Sappho, Anne Bradstreet, Lady Mary Wortley Montague, Emily Dickinson, Elizabeth Bishop, Stevie Smith . Sorry, that's six, isn't it? But it's a notorious fact that males are quite unable to grasp any concept of the higher mathematics. Just ask B. Grumman. The Androgynous Robin *** actually, there is a case -- has anyone made it? -- for the use of non-orthodox rhythms, dipodic and that, which draws most of the later of those ladies together, and how mostly male poets do their best to pretend they don't exist. R. (I'd throw Dorothy Parker and Edna St. Vincent Milay into the mix, but that raises at least two *other cans of worms -- light verse and gay verse. Not that (necessarily) DP and E St.V M were gay (though Sylvia Townsend Warner most certainly was, and U.A.Fanthorpe surely is) but that Edward Lear and Clough pretty certainly were. ... which brings us to just *why _The Oxford Book of Light Verse_ was edited by the author of "A Platonic Blow". Which makes you sometimes furoiusly to think. That, and why there's no satisfactory English translation of Anacreon .. Dmitri for the 4th Internatinal ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080523/80f00f6b/attachment.html From robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com Fri May 23 09:27:33 2008 From: robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com (Robin Hamilton) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:52 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] NYTimes.com: Il Miglior Fabbro References: <1CE4E412946E4833B8F081ECFF7C3266@win.louisiana.edu><483635D5.3090004@nut-n-but.net><48366AFE.7030100@ntlworld.com><003401c8bcc3$9ca34710$0201a8c0@LindaSue> <017d01c8bccb$075cbbc0$4001a8c0@HP10652193472> <125601c8bcd5$832a69f0$6401a8c0@judy> Message-ID: <01b901c8bcd8$c259c500$4001a8c0@HP10652193472> This one's for Bob: And add just one more female poet to your list of Western greats: Amy Shaksper, nah? Judy Nah!!! ;-) R 4I -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080523/8f6ff794/attachment.html From grahamd at ripon.edu Fri May 23 09:40:57 2008 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:52 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Il Miglior Fabbro In-Reply-To: <5FDEDAFF-4211-4AA6-859B-CE7E5522592F@ripon.edu> References: <5FDEDAFF-4211-4AA6-859B-CE7E5522592F@ripon.edu> Message-ID: <95667497-173A-4761-B1BF-CDEE445BB83E@ripon.edu> Hard to think of any yardstick by which Whitman is not the father of American poetry--in terms of scope, craft, theme, diction, ambition, influence on later poets, and, of course, sheer brilliance. And is there a single greater poem in America than "Song of Myself"? "The Cantos," you say? Oh, please. . . Dickinson is a very great poet, but much more limited in her range & influence. I recommend Richard Gray's *American Poetry of the 20th Century* for a convincing account of the many ways Whitman looms over American poetry. One of his serious quips has stayed with me: every major American poem, he remarks, could well carry the alternative title "Song of Myself." ======================================== David Graham grahamd@ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.mac.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080523/ee7fdfcd/attachment.html From robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com Fri May 23 09:58:23 2008 From: robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com (Robin Hamilton) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:52 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Il Miglior Fabbro References: <5FDEDAFF-4211-4AA6-859B-CE7E5522592F@ripon.edu> <95667497-173A-4761-B1BF-CDEE445BB83E@ripon.edu> Message-ID: <01d901c8bcdd$10d50790$4001a8c0@HP10652193472> This is one of those Irreconcilable Differences ... Dickinson is Dostoevsky to Whitman's Tolstoy. To (to be crude) for some of us, Whitman and Tolstoy both, are rather large lumps of soggy blamange pudding, the Higher Gossip with precious little craft for added value. (As an American not unrelated to William James suggested.) Dmitri 4thI From: David Graham To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views Sent: Friday, May 23, 2008 2:40 PM Subject: [New-Poetry] Il Miglior Fabbro Hard to think of any yardstick by which Whitman is not the father of American poetry--in terms of scope, craft, theme, diction, ambition, influence on later poets, Longfellow, anyone? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080523/57936ffe/attachment.html From shin02143 at aol.com Fri May 23 10:24:28 2008 From: shin02143 at aol.com (shin02143@aol.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:52 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] NYTimes.com: Il Miglior Fabbro In-Reply-To: <731bb17a0805230415n4a06ef40y8d154d54ccff0fdf@mail.gmail.com> References: <1CE4E412946E4833B8F081ECFF7C3266@win.louisiana.edu> <483635D5.3090004@nut-n-but.net> <48366AFE.7030100@ntlworld.com> <003401c8bcc3$9ca34710$0201a8c0@LindaSue> <731bb17a0805230415n4a06ef40y8d154d54ccff0fdf@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <8CA8AF7D830342E-E68-19D@WEBMAIL-MB12.sysops.aol.com> Agreed - he was more a bastard son. -----Original Message----- From: Jeff Newberry Sent: Fri, 23 May 2008 7:15 am Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] NYTimes.com: Il Miglior Fabbro I don't think Pound is anybody's stepchild. Jeff Newberry On Fri, May 23, 2008 at 6:56 AM, Linda Sue Grimes wrote: Emily Dickinson...and it was Whitman, not Pound.? Pound is a stepchild. ? lsg ----- Original Message ----- From: David Bircumshaw To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views Sent: Friday, May 23, 2008 1:58 AM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] NYTimes.com: Il Miglior Fabbro If Pound or Whitman was the father of American poetry who was the mother? Best Dave -- David Bircumshaw Website and A Chide's Alphabet http://homepage.ntlworld.com/david.bircumshaw/ The Animal Subsides http://www.arrowheadpress.co.uk/books/animal.html Leicester Poetry Society: http://www.poetryleicester.co.uk _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -- "Why are you wearing that stupid *man* suit?" http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080523/376fa499/attachment.html From grahamd at ripon.edu Fri May 23 10:32:32 2008 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:52 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] One sap and one root Message-ID: <2EC32C27-ED29-4B00-AEAA-D3B122CD4B60@ripon.edu> A Pact I make a pact with you, Walt Whitman - I have detested you long enough. I come to you as a grown child Who has had a pig-headed father; I am old enough now to make friends. It was you that broke the new wood, Now is a time for carving. We have one sap and one root -- Let there be commerce between us. Ezra Pound ======================================== David Graham grahamd@ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.mac.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080523/4ca61fb4/attachment.html From robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com Fri May 23 10:55:27 2008 From: robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com (Robin Hamilton) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:52 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] One sap and one root References: <2EC32C27-ED29-4B00-AEAA-D3B122CD4B60@ripon.edu> Message-ID: <023501c8bce5$09eb3000$4001a8c0@HP10652193472> This was a trite (and tendentious) poem when Pound wrote it, and it still is today. Among the various embarrassing poems the Early Pound seems to be lumbered with, this has to be matched only by "The Goodly Fere". Hey, if we're swapping quotations from when Pound was desperately trying to scrabble together a genealogy based on the idea of the dramatic monologue, how about his comment on Browning (almost exactly parallel to what David quotes with regard to Whitman?): "Hey, Bob, that Sordello wasn't really that bad." Huh? Dmitri 4thI ----- Original Message ----- From: David Graham To: new-poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu & Views Sent: Friday, May 23, 2008 3:32 PM Subject: [New-Poetry] One sap and one root A Pact I make a pact with you, Walt Whitman - I have detested you long enough. I come to you as a grown child Who has had a pig-headed father; I am old enough now to make friends. It was you that broke the new wood, Now is a time for carving. We have one sap and one root -- Let there be commerce between us. Ezra Pound -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080523/beb3d8d5/attachment.html From cervantes.james at gmail.com Fri May 23 11:07:32 2008 From: cervantes.james at gmail.com (James Cervantes) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:52 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] One sap and one root In-Reply-To: <023501c8bce5$09eb3000$4001a8c0@HP10652193472> References: <2EC32C27-ED29-4B00-AEAA-D3B122CD4B60@ripon.edu> <023501c8bce5$09eb3000$4001a8c0@HP10652193472> Message-ID: <648208b60805230807y696edb4fx83a5b49803a495e7@mail.gmail.com> Just shows that the flighty passage of time can deal heavy blows to many things, especially language and context. Once upon a time, "Let there be commerce between us" would have been a pretty o.k. way to write (a middle-brow Keillorism there), but it (like my first phrase above) gets my vote for most tendentious in the poem. Alas, such language still lives in academe. - Jim On Fri, May 23, 2008 at 9:55 AM, Robin Hamilton < robin.hamilton2@btinternet.com> wrote: > This was a trite (and tendentious) poem when Pound wrote it, and it still > is today. > > Among the various embarrassing poems the Early Pound seems to be lumbered > with, this has to be matched only by "The Goodly Fere". > > Hey, if we're swapping quotations from when Pound was desperately trying to > scrabble together a genealogy based on the idea of the dramatic monologue, > how about his comment on Browning (almost exactly parallel to what David > quotes with regard to Whitman?): > > "Hey, Bob, that Sordello wasn't really *that* bad." > > Huh? > > Dmitri 4thI > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* David Graham > *To:* new-poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu & Views > *Sent:* Friday, May 23, 2008 3:32 PM > *Subject:* [New-Poetry] One sap and one root > > *A Pact* > > I make a pact with you, Walt Whitman - > I have detested you long enough. > I come to you as a grown child > Who has had a pig-headed father; > I am old enough now to make friends. > It was you that broke the new wood, > Now is a time for carving. > We have one sap and one root -- > Let there be commerce between us. > Ezra Pound > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080523/fb6ae91d/attachment.html From grahamd at ripon.edu Fri May 23 11:14:36 2008 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:52 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: One sap and one root In-Reply-To: <023501c8bce5$09eb3000$4001a8c0@HP10652193472> References: <2EC32C27-ED29-4B00-AEAA-D3B122CD4B60@ripon.edu> <023501c8bce5$09eb3000$4001a8c0@HP10652193472> Message-ID: <5FB49D4D-1FFB-4AC2-87B4-A701D74936DB@ripon.edu> On May 23, 2008, at 9:55 AM, Robin Hamilton wrote: > This was a trite (and tendentious) poem when Pound wrote it, and it > still is today. > > Among the various embarrassing poems the Early Pound seems to be > lumbered with, this has to be matched only by "The Goodly Fere". > =================== Have to agree with you on this one, Robin. I just posted it to remind us that even Pound admitted Whitman as a poetic father, albeit a "pig-headed" one. And he was right about the parentage issue, even if the resultant poem remains embarrassing. Tempting to call it juvenilia, though Pound was 31 when he published it. ======================================== David Graham grahamd@ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.mac.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: David Graham > To: new-poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu & Views > Sent: Friday, May 23, 2008 3:32 PM > Subject: [New-Poetry] One sap and one root > > A Pact > > I make a pact with you, Walt Whitman - > I have detested you long enough. > I come to you as a grown child > Who has had a pig-headed father; > I am old enough now to make friends. > It was you that broke the new wood, > Now is a time for carving. > We have one sap and one root -- > Let there be commerce between us. > Ezra Pound > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080523/25ebe1e2/attachment.html From robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com Fri May 23 11:24:56 2008 From: robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com (Robin Hamilton) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:52 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] One sap and one root References: <2EC32C27-ED29-4B00-AEAA-D3B122CD4B60@ripon.edu> <023501c8bce5$09eb3000$4001a8c0@HP10652193472> <648208b60805230807y696edb4fx83a5b49803a495e7@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <027601c8bce9$282a93e0$4001a8c0@HP10652193472> << Just shows that the flighty passage of time can deal heavy blows to many things, especially language and context. >> Um, sorry, no, Jim -- it was crap when Pound wrote it and it's still crap today. Pound himself repudiated the Georgian translationese that disfigures this poem. I appeal to Canto I. Dmitre 4thI -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080523/62e15232/attachment.html From halvard at earthlink.net Fri May 23 11:45:57 2008 From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:52 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] One sap and one root beer In-Reply-To: <023501c8bce5$09eb3000$4001a8c0@HP10652193472> References: <2EC32C27-ED29-4B00-AEAA-D3B122CD4B60@ripon.edu> <023501c8bce5$09eb3000$4001a8c0@HP10652193472> Message-ID: Dad's Old Fashioned! That's the one for me. Hal "Anything is art if an artist says it is." --Marcel Duchamp Halvard Johnson ================ halvard@earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080523/6053f5a1/attachment.html From jforjames at aol.com Fri May 23 13:05:16 2008 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames@aol.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:53 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Il Miglior Fabbro In-Reply-To: <01d901c8bcdd$10d50790$4001a8c0@HP10652193472> References: <5FDEDAFF-4211-4AA6-859B-CE7E5522592F@ripon.edu> <95667497-173A-4761-B1BF-CDEE445BB83E@ripon.edu> <01d901c8bcdd$10d50790$4001a8c0@HP10652193472> Message-ID: <8CA8B0E4EB9A9C6-1068-E22@webmail-stg-d04.sysops.aol.com> Had the?early Moderns absorbed much Dickinson? And the form they got in her in was normalized from the form in which we know her work. What did Pound know or think of Dickinson's poetry? I have the impression her poetry?was known as a kind of a curiosity or novelty at first...not?so influential on other poets?at the outset. Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: Robin Hamilton Sent: Fri, 23 May 2008 9:58 am Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Il Miglior Fabbro This is one of those Irreconcilable Differences ... ? Dickinson is Dostoevsky to Whitman's Tolstoy. ? To (to be crude) for some of us, Whitman and Tolstoy both, are rather large lumps of soggy blamange pudding, the Higher Gossip with precious little craft for added value. ? ??? ??? (As an American not unrelated to William James suggested.) ? Dmitri 4thI ? From: David Graham To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views Sent: Friday, May 23, 2008 2:40 PM Subject: [New-Poetry] Il Miglior Fabbro Hard to think of any yardstick by which Whitman is not the father of American poetry--in terms of scope, craft, theme, diction, ambition, influence on later poets, ? ??? ??? Longfellow, anyone? _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080523/1b929c89/attachment.html From robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com Fri May 23 13:29:56 2008 From: robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com (Robin Hamilton) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:53 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Il Miglior Fabbro References: <5FDEDAFF-4211-4AA6-859B-CE7E5522592F@ripon.edu> <95667497-173A-4761-B1BF-CDEE445BB83E@ripon.edu> <01d901c8bcdd$10d50790$4001a8c0@HP10652193472> <8CA8B0E4EB9A9C6-1068-E22@webmail-stg-d04.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <034901c8bcfa$9ec8e130$4001a8c0@HP10652193472> It doesn't make much sense to talk about Emily Dickinson's poetry before it was published properly as she intended in 1955. Had the early Moderns absorbed much Dickinson? And the form they got in her in was normalized from the form in which we know her work. What did Pound know or think of Dickinson's poetry? I have the impression her poetry was known as a kind of a curiosity or novelty at first...not so influential on other poets at the outset. Finnegan How did the poets read Wyatt before the Egerton MS rather than Tottel became the Standard about 1900?. Same difference -- Emily Dickinson's poetry only authentically appeared after 1955 -- in the same way that Wyatt's only properly emerged after 1900 and Donne was properly edited for the first time by Grierson in 1912. Let's get real, people -- the world is full of crap editions, but you can sometimes specify what matters. Sometimes dates matter, and any brouhaha around Emily Dickinson turns on the year 1955 -- other than that, it's fluff and cultural history. Doesn't change the fact that Emily Dickinson, rather than Whitman, is the major poet of 19thC America R. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080523/55cbbd55/attachment.html From anny.ballardini at tin.it Fri May 23 14:16:32 2008 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:53 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Il Miglior Fabbro In-Reply-To: <8CA8B0E4EB9A9C6-1068-E22@webmail-stg-d04.sysops.aol.com> References: <5FDEDAFF-4211-4AA6-859B-CE7E5522592F@ripon.edu> <95667497-173A-4761-B1BF-CDEE445BB83E@ripon.edu><01d901c8bcdd$10d50790$4001a8c0@HP10652193472> <8CA8B0E4EB9A9C6-1068-E22@webmail-stg-d04.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: I never met Dickinson in Pound's work, and like Finnegan, I would be interested in knowing where and how. From: jforjames@aol.com Sent: Friday, May 23, 2008 7:05 PM Had the early Moderns absorbed much Dickinson? And the form they got in her in was normalized from the form in which we know her work. What did Pound know or think of Dickinson's poetry? I have the impression her poetry was known as a kind of a curiosity or novelty at first...not so influential on other poets at the outset. Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: Robin Hamilton Sent: Fri, 23 May 2008 9:58 am Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Il Miglior Fabbro This is one of those Irreconcilable Differences ... Dickinson is Dostoevsky to Whitman's Tolstoy. To (to be crude) for some of us, Whitman and Tolstoy both, are rather large lumps of soggy blamange pudding, the Higher Gossip with precious little craft for added value. (As an American not unrelated to William James suggested.) Dmitri 4thI From: David Graham To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views Sent: Friday, May 23, 2008 2:40 PM Subject: [New-Poetry] Il Miglior Fabbro Hard to think of any yardstick by which Whitman is not the father of American poetry--in terms of scope, craft, theme, diction, ambition, influence on later poets, Longfellow, anyone? _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Stay informed, get connected and more with AOL on your phone. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.24.0/1462 - Release Date: 5/23/2008 7:20 AM -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080523/d9b340a0/attachment.html From jforjames at aol.com Fri May 23 15:13:06 2008 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames@aol.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:53 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Il Miglior Fabbro In-Reply-To: <034901c8bcfa$9ec8e130$4001a8c0@HP10652193472> References: <5FDEDAFF-4211-4AA6-859B-CE7E5522592F@ripon.edu> <95667497-173A-4761-B1BF-CDEE445BB83E@ripon.edu> <01d901c8bcdd$10d50790$4001a8c0@HP10652193472> <8CA8B0E4EB9A9C6-1068-E22@webmail-stg-d04.sysops.aol.com> <034901c8bcfa$9ec8e130$4001a8c0@HP10652193472> Message-ID: <8CA8B202A1932EF-1608-1245@webmailbeta-m08.sysops.aol.com> The early Dickinson editions sold well. Couldn't those early editions be compared to inferior translations of a good poet? If there is enough 'good' showing through in those earlier treatments/editions (however horrifying they seem in retrospect), you get?the critical?attention needed so that?better later treatments of work are warranted. Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: Robin Hamilton To: new-poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Fri, 23 May 2008 1:29 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Il Miglior Fabbro It doesn't make much sense to talk about Emily Dickinson's poetry before it was published properly as she intended in 1955. ? ??? ??? Had the?early Moderns absorbed much Dickinson? And the form ??? ??? they got in her in was normalized from the form in which we know her work. ??? ??? What did Pound know or think of Dickinson's poetry? I have the impression ??? ??? her poetry?was known as a kind of a curiosity or novelty at first...not?so ??? ??? influential on other poets?at the outset. ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? Finnegan ? How did the poets read Wyatt before the Egerton MS rather than Tottel became the Standard about 1900?. ? Same difference -- Emily Dickinson's poetry only authentically appeared after 1955 -- in the same way that Wyatt's only properly emerged after 1900 and Donne was properly edited for the first time by Grierson in 1912. ? Let's get real, people -- the world is full of crap editions, but you can sometimes specify what matters. ? Sometimes dates matter, and any brouhaha around Emily Dickinson turns on the year 1955 -- other than that, it's fluff and cultural history. ? Doesn't change the fact that Emily Dickinson, rather than Whitman, is the major poet of 19thC America ? R. _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080523/90f60987/attachment.html From david.weinstock at gmail.com Fri May 23 15:59:09 2008 From: david.weinstock at gmail.com (David Weinstock) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:53 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] One sap and one root In-Reply-To: <027601c8bce9$282a93e0$4001a8c0@HP10652193472> References: <2EC32C27-ED29-4B00-AEAA-D3B122CD4B60@ripon.edu> <023501c8bce5$09eb3000$4001a8c0@HP10652193472> <648208b60805230807y696edb4fx83a5b49803a495e7@mail.gmail.com> <027601c8bce9$282a93e0$4001a8c0@HP10652193472> Message-ID: <437b1e3a0805231259o478a51des63453cf856174412@mail.gmail.com> I take :"A Pact" at face value. Pound acknowledges Whitman as the father of American free verse, but had to hate him for long enough to find his own voice. It's a short poem but it was not a trival struggle--you go read Whitman for a couple of hours and then try to write a poem that does not sound like Whitman. He's powerful. To learn from him we must absorb him and be changed. Then he must be shaken off, in Pound's case shaken off violently. How often do we hear Ezra Pound speaking clearly, in the first person, about something that still matters so much? I have always liked it. Is he patronizing to Whitman? He was patronizing about everyone and everything. In this case, he had the honor and good sense to admit it, apologize for it, and move on. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080523/10641380/attachment.html From anny.ballardini at tin.it Fri May 23 16:26:04 2008 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:53 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fw: [NarcissusWorks] Photos by Cornell Capa Message-ID: ----- Original Message ----- From: Anny Ballardini To: anny.ballardini@tin.it Sent: Friday, May 23, 2008 10:09 PM Subject: [NarcissusWorks] Photos by Cornell Capa http://www.nytimes.com/slideshow/2008/05/23/arts/0523-CAPA_index.html Courtesy of The New York Times. -- Posted By Anny Ballardini to NarcissusWorks at 5/23/2008 10:08:00 PM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.24.0/1462 - Release Date: 5/23/2008 7:20 AM -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080523/946828ea/attachment.html From alexdickow9 at yahoo.com Fri May 23 17:03:05 2008 From: alexdickow9 at yahoo.com (Alexander Dickow) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:53 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] walt pound, t.s. frost and cie In-Reply-To: <200805231600.m4NG06Lr010671@wiz.cath.vt.edu> Message-ID: <332352.53760.qm@web35508.mail.mud.yahoo.com> (Caveat lector: following message contains crankiness) American literature aside, how can Song of Myself possibly compare to the sunlit wonders of Time's Passage (Pessoa), the Prose of the Transsiberian (Cendrars), or Zone (Apollinaire)? They were all "influenced" by Whitman, in some way or another, at one remove at least (Laforgue's translations), but they're so much *better*. As for Pound, don't get me started. I still can't understand (and I've tried *really hard*) what the big deal about Whitman and Pound is. Couldn't pay me a zillion bucks to teach them.... I'll take Dickinson and Wyatt, thanks, eras and epochs and nationalities aside. Ick! Grouchily and Europeanistly Yours, Alex www.alexdickow.net/blog/ les mots! ah quel d?sert ? la fin merveilleux. -- Henri Droguet From skip at louisiana.edu Fri May 23 17:06:55 2008 From: skip at louisiana.edu (Skip Fox) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:53 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] One sap and one root In-Reply-To: <437b1e3a0805231259o478a51des63453cf856174412@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: I would agree with this except that it misses one point. Pound believed deeply in craft (as The Collected Early Poems attests ably). Breaking "the new wood" seems to indicate an appreciation for Whitman's (re)creation of free verse, use of the American idiom, opening subject matter, emerging modernity, etc. The poem implies that Pound hadn't simply been struggling with a brilliant father whose presence might be inhibitory, but with a brilliant father he thought to be centrally wrong on the need for craft, an issue central to him. Thus, he writes, "Now it is now time for the carving." Probably in concert with Eliot's dictum that no verse if free for the person who wishes to do a good job. The implication is that he hated Whitman for his sprawl but now understands and appreciates Whitman's contribution, but that now he (and his generation) will roll up their collective sleeves and craft this new material. (I like the last line, by the way. It is forward looking, optimistic, direct, use a pretty simple and straightforward language, etc. For Pound, it is not necessarily ironic or negative to use business as a lexical metaphor.) How long after 1915, when the poem was first published I think, does his disgust with free verse that he felt to be unconsidered (uncrafted), became more pronounced or public with his rejection of Amygism? Two years? In fact his disgust with watery free verse was in some part responsible for his writing "Hugh Selwyn Mauberley," wasn't it? Why else did Pound return to such formal perfection after the brilliant work in free verse that proceeded it? (I'm not claiming that the poem addresses this issue except in the style he chose to write it.) Not arguing, just thinking out loud on a poem I've loved and thought about (and taught) for years. Always ready for clarification, qualification, etc. -----Original Message----- From: new-poetry-bounces@wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto:new-poetry-bounces@wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of David Weinstock Sent: Friday, May 23, 2008 2:59 PM To: Robin Hamilton; NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &,Views Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] One sap and one root I take :"A Pact" at face value. Pound acknowledges Whitman as the father of American free verse, but had to hate him for long enough to find his own voice. It's a short poem but it was not a trival struggle--you go read Whitman for a couple of hours and then try to write a poem that does not sound like Whitman. He's powerful. To learn from him we must absorb him and be changed. Then he must be shaken off, in Pound's case shaken off violently. How often do we hear Ezra Pound speaking clearly, in the first person, about something that still matters so much? I have always liked it. Is he patronizing to Whitman? He was patronizing about everyone and everything. In this case, he had the honor and good sense to admit it, apologize for it, and move on. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080523/ee835b19/attachment.html From jforjames at aol.com Fri May 23 17:21:08 2008 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames@aol.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:53 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Il Miglior Fabbro In-Reply-To: <034901c8bcfa$9ec8e130$4001a8c0@HP10652193472> References: <5FDEDAFF-4211-4AA6-859B-CE7E5522592F@ripon.edu> <95667497-173A-4761-B1BF-CDEE445BB83E@ripon.edu> <01d901c8bcdd$10d50790$4001a8c0@HP10652193472> <8CA8B0E4EB9A9C6-1068-E22@webmail-stg-d04.sysops.aol.com> <034901c8bcfa$9ec8e130$4001a8c0@HP10652193472> Message-ID: <8CA8B320CFAA188-1608-182B@webmailbeta-m08.sysops.aol.com> Robin, re your last point, so what seems true is that Dickinson can only be thought of as?the?major poet of 19th Century for poets post-1955. That has to leave Whitman in the catbird seat, where I'm sure he'd love to be, for the first half of the 20thC. (Along with melodious strains of Longfellow dying away against discordant modernist notes.) The other name among the Moderns that hasn't been touted is Williams.??Numerically far exceeding?Pound's influence on later generations, I see Williams as being the American Modern who influenced the greatest number of?poets. Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: Robin Hamilton To: new-poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Fri, 23 May 2008 1:29 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Il Miglior Fabbro . ? Doesn't change the fact that Emily Dickinson, rather than Whitman, is the major poet of 19thC America ? R. _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080523/557f69b1/attachment.html From grahamd at ripon.edu Fri May 23 18:00:58 2008 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:53 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: One sap and one root In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <79A2E6A1-9B5C-4196-828C-BD24CCFB94A6@ripon.edu> Quite reasonable description of Pound's attitudes, but I can't agree with the suggestion that Whitman lacks craft. (Pound may well have thought he did, but Pound was wrong about a lot of things besides Mussolini.) Of course, I am not thinking of Whitman's lesser works, just as it wouldn't be fair to judge Pound simply as the author of "A Pact." But I'd go so far as to say that Whitman was a supreme craftsman. I suppose one kind of evidence for this proposition would be the extensive revision he conducted, the way he kept honing and polishing things until they assumed the form we remember. "Poem of Walt Whitman, An American" somehow isn't quite as well turned a title as "Song of Myself," to pick one famous example. Or "A Child's Reminiscence," which only after some trial and error coalesced into "Out of the Cradle Endlessly Rocking." And similarly with many other specific poems and passages (also acknowledging that he too often made things worse in revision, naturally). As it happens, I can pinpoint the exact night when I decided that Whitman was a great craftsman. I was not much of a Whitman fan until after college, when I heard Galway Kinnell read. He devoted a whole reading to Whitman. I think it may have been entirely from "Song of Myself." That was one of the few big lightbulb moments in my poetic life. More precisely, the lightbulb did not just go off in my mind, it went off in my ears: For the first time, really, I realized why Whitman was a great poet. His finest poems are superb in the way that no great poems can fail to be: in the music of their language. Kinnell reads aloud beautifully, of course; but even more, he is very much in sync with Whitman's peculiar sound, both extravagant (sprawling) and also somehow delicate. Another key element in my change of heart was Randall Jarrell's essay "Some Lines From Whitman," in which he asserts, "To show Whitman for what he is one does not need to praise or explain or argue, one needs simply to quote." Jarrell proceeds to quote great gobs of Whitman's most striking passages, highlighting his exuberant rhythms, his extravagant diction, the beautifully textured and, yes, nuanced lyricism which I had not thought the Good Gray Poet of "O Captain! My Captain!" was capable. Full disclosure: I've been trying to complete an essay lately in which I take up Whitman's craft. Trying to work out to my own satisfaction, at least, why his lines often linger in mind while those of, say, Carl Sandburg, do not. At the most obvious level of technique they're doing the same thing; but Whitman's free verse at its best is leagues ahead of Sandburg's (and, for that matter, all but the very best of Ginsberg's and almost anyone else's). I Heard You Solemn-Sweet Pipes Of The Organ I heard you solemn-sweet pipes of the organ as last Sunday morn I passed the church, Winds of autumn, as I walk'd the woods at dusk I heard your long- stretch'd sighs up above so mournful, I heard the perfect Italian tenor singing at the opera, I heard the soprano in the midst of the quartet singing; Heart of my love! you too I heard murmuring low through one of the wrists around my head, Heard the pulse of you when all was still ringing little bells last night under my ear. [Leaves of Grass, 1861] ======================================== David Graham grahamd@ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.mac.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== On May 23, 2008, at 4:06 PM, Skip Fox wrote: > I would agree with this except that it misses one point. Pound > believed deeply in craft (as The Collected Early Poems attests > ably). Breaking ?the new wood? seems to indicate an appreciation > for Whitman?s (re)creation of free verse, use of the American > idiom, opening subject matter, emerging modernity, etc. The poem > implies that Pound hadn?t simply been struggling with a brilliant > father whose presence might be inhibitory, but with a brilliant > father he thought to be centrally wrong on the need for craft, an > issue central to him. Thus, he writes, ?Now it is now time for the > carving.? Probably in concert with Eliot?s dictum that no verse if > free for the person who wishes to do a good job. > > > The implication is that he hated Whitman for his sprawl but now > understands and appreciates Whitman?s contribution, but that now he > (and his generation) will roll up their collective sleeves and > craft this new material. (I like the last line, by the way. It is > forward looking, optimistic, direct, use a pretty simple and > straightforward language, etc. For Pound, it is not necessarily > ironic or negative to use business as a lexical metaphor.) > > > How long after 1915, when the poem was first published I think, > does his disgust with free verse that he felt to be unconsidered > (uncrafted), became more pronounced or public with his rejection of > Amygism? Two years? > > > In fact his disgust with watery free verse was in some part > responsible for his writing ?Hugh Selwyn Mauberley,? wasn?t it? Why > else did Pound return to such formal perfection after the brilliant > work in free verse that proceeded it? (I?m not claiming that the > poem addresses this issue except in the style he chose to write it.) > > > Not arguing, just thinking out loud on a poem I?ve loved and > thought about (and taught) for years. Always ready for > clarification, qualification, etc. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: new-poetry-bounces@wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto:new-poetry- > bounces@wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of David Weinstock > Sent: Friday, May 23, 2008 2:59 PM > To: Robin Hamilton; NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &,Views > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] One sap and one root > > > I take :"A Pact" at face value. Pound acknowledges Whitman as the > father of American free verse, but had to hate him for long enough > to find his own voice. It's a short poem but it was not a trival > struggle--you go read Whitman for a couple of hours and then try to > write a poem that does not sound like Whitman. He's powerful. To > learn from him we must absorb him and be changed. Then he must be > shaken off, in Pound's case shaken off violently. > > How often do we hear Ezra Pound speaking clearly, in the first > person, about something that still matters so much? I have always > liked it. Is he patronizing to Whitman? He was patronizing about > everyone and everything. In this case, he had the honor and good > sense to admit it, apologize for it, and move on. > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080523/900c4882/attachment.html From robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com Fri May 23 18:07:55 2008 From: robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com (Robin Hamilton) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:53 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Il Miglior Fabbro References: <5FDEDAFF-4211-4AA6-859B-CE7E5522592F@ripon.edu> <95667497-173A-4761-B1BF-CDEE445BB83E@ripon.edu> <01d901c8bcdd$10d50790$4001a8c0@HP10652193472> <8CA8B0E4EB9A9C6-1068-E22@webmail-stg-d04.sysops.aol.com><034901c8bcfa$9ec8e130$4001a8c0@HP10652193472> <8CA8B320CFAA188-1608-182B@webmailbeta-m08.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <044401c8bd21$74836e00$4001a8c0@HP10652193472> << Robin, re your last point, so what seems true is that Dickinson can only be thought of as the major poet of 19th Century for poets post-1955. >> Well, in a real sense, yes, in that before 1955, what we had were poems by "Emily Dickinson" rather than by Emily Dickinson. As between 1550 and 1900, we didn't have the *authentic poems by Wyatt. But there are more extreme cases -- not only wasn't John Donne a major poet (and sure, Coleridge and Browning sort-of noticed him) between 1650 and 1912 (actually 1923, with Eliot's review of Grierson's anthology) but he might as well not have existed during that time. As to Blake ... well. Took Yeats to pry him out of the woodwork in 1899. And when I was at college in the sixties, Thomas Hardy was a novelist, but who reads Jude the Obscure today, other than as an adjunct to Thomas Hardy's Poetry? << That has to leave Whitman in the catbird seat, where I'm sure he'd love to be, for the first half of the 20thC. (Along with melodious strains of Longfellow dying away against discordant modernist notes.) >> Whitman's admiration for the New York gutter journalist Mike Walsh (who described George Matsell as "300 lbs of blubber and malice") seems to me to reflect a failure of judgement that borders on the imbecilic. IMHO. And anyway, Blake did it better first. << The other name among the Moderns that hasn't been touted is Williams. Numerically far exceeding Pound's influence on later generations, I see Williams as being the American Modern who influenced the greatest number of poets. >> WCW, among the Big Four Modernists, is the one who doesn't really export. It is, I think, something to do with the way his rhythms are (limitedly) rooted in the modalities of American speech. Robin -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080523/54524940/attachment.html From cervantes.james at gmail.com Fri May 23 18:09:38 2008 From: cervantes.james at gmail.com (James Cervantes) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:54 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Il Miglior Fabbro In-Reply-To: <8CA8B320CFAA188-1608-182B@webmailbeta-m08.sysops.aol.com> References: <5FDEDAFF-4211-4AA6-859B-CE7E5522592F@ripon.edu> <95667497-173A-4761-B1BF-CDEE445BB83E@ripon.edu> <01d901c8bcdd$10d50790$4001a8c0@HP10652193472> <8CA8B0E4EB9A9C6-1068-E22@webmail-stg-d04.sysops.aol.com> <034901c8bcfa$9ec8e130$4001a8c0@HP10652193472> <8CA8B320CFAA188-1608-182B@webmailbeta-m08.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <648208b60805231509s3ee0afel12019693027cf4b6@mail.gmail.com> On Fri, May 23, 2008 at 4:21 PM, wrote: > Robin, > re your last point, so what seems true is that Dickinson can only be > thought of as the major poet of 19th Century for poets post-1955. That has > to leave Whitman in the catbird seat, where I'm sure he'd love to be, for > the first half of the 20thC. (Along with melodious strains of Longfellow > dying away against discordant modernist notes.) > > The other name among the Moderns that hasn't been touted is > Williams. Numerically far exceeding Pound's influence on later generations, > I see Williams as being the American Modern who influenced the greatest > number of poets. Pound, Dickinson, Williams. What poetry, stemming from which influence, do you like now? Or, is this all academic, and we admit we all stem from all influences? -- Jim ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning http://www.fieralingue.it/documenti/mr_bondo.pdf http://www.poetserv.org/jvc/home/index.html http://home.earthlink.net/~jvcervantes/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/12364573@N08/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080523/5914c6cb/attachment.html From jforjames at aol.com Fri May 23 18:09:46 2008 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames@aol.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:54 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] One sap and one root In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <8CA8B38D86B5114-1504-10DA@webmail-stg-d05.sysops.aol.com> I'm glad to see you and David defend this poem. Lovely terseness about it, so direct and matter of fact. A praise poem,?grudgingly uttered,?without the usual lavish flourishes that make that kind of poem so hard to hear. Last lines are so hard, I'll?forgive Pound for it. The word 'commerce' doesn't fit the imagery or the sentiment very well. Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: Skip Fox Sent: Fri, 23 May 2008 5:06 pm Subject: RE: [New-Poetry] One sap and one root I would agree with this except that it misses one point. Pound believed deeply in craft (as The Collected Early Poems attests ably). Breaking ?the new wood? seems to indicate an appreciation for Whitman?s (re)creation of free verse, use of the American idiom, opening subject matter, emerging modernity, etc. The poem implies that Pound hadn?t simply been struggling with a brilliant father whose presence might be inhibitory, but with a brilliant father he thought to be centrally wrong on the need for craft, an issue central to him. Thus, he writes, ?Now it is now time for the carving.? Probably in concert with Eliot?s dictum that no verse if free for the person who wishes to do a good job. ? The implication is that he hated Whitman for his sprawl but now understands and appreciates Whitman?s contribution, but that now he (and his generation) will roll up their collective sleeves and craft this new material. (I like the last line, by the way. It is forward looking, optimistic, direct, use a pretty simple and straightforward language, etc. For Pound, it is not necessarily ironic or negative to use business as a lexical metaphor.) ? How long after 1915, when the poem was first published I think, does his disgust with free verse that he felt to be unconsidered (uncrafted), became more pronounced or public with his rejection of Amygism? Two years? ? In fact his disgust with watery free verse was in some part responsible for his writing ?Hugh Selwyn Mauberley,? wasn?t it? Why else did Pound return to such formal perfection after the brilliant work in free verse that proceeded it? (I?m not claiming that the poem addresses this issue except in the style he chose to write it.) ? Not arguing, just thinking out loud on a poem I?ve loved and thought about (and taught) for years. Always ready for clarification, qualification, etc. ? -----Original Message----- From: new-poetry-bounces@wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto:new-poetry-bounces@wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of David Weinstock Sent: Friday, May 23, 2008 2:59 PM To: Robin Hamilton; NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &,Views Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] One sap and one root ? I take :"A Pact" at face value. Pound acknowledges Whitman as the father of American free verse, but had to hate him for long enough to find his own voice. It's a short poem but it was not a trival struggle--you go read Whitman for a couple of hours and then try to write a poem that does not sound like Whitman. He's powerful. To learn from him we must absorb him and be changed. Then he must be shaken off, in Pound's case shaken off violently. How often do we hear Ezra Pound speaking clearly, in the first person, about something that still matters so much? I have always liked it. Is he patronizing to Whitman? He was patronizing about everyone and everything. In this case, he had the honor and good sense to admit it, apologize for it, and move on. _______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080523/dcbe117c/attachment.html From chris.lott at gmail.com Fri May 23 22:37:16 2008 From: chris.lott at gmail.com (Chris Lott) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:54 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] One sap and one root In-Reply-To: <8CA8B38D86B5114-1504-10DA@webmail-stg-d05.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CA8B38D86B5114-1504-10DA@webmail-stg-d05.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <9b1b9dab0805231937u7177557ei251672c73e54d85b@mail.gmail.com> On Fri, May 23, 2008 at 2:09 PM, wrote: > I'm glad to see you and David defend this poem. Lovely terseness about it, > so direct and matter of fact. A praise poem, grudgingly uttered, without the > usual lavish flourishes that make that kind of poem so hard to hear. > Last lines are so hard, I'll forgive Pound for it. The word 'commerce' > doesn't fit the imagery or the sentiment > very well. My sentiments as well... I was kind of surprised to read such immediate and complete dismissal. But what do I know, I'm just a rube! c From jeff.newberry at gmail.com Sat May 24 08:55:25 2008 From: jeff.newberry at gmail.com (Jeff Newberry) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:54 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Happy Birthday, Bob Dylan Message-ID: <731bb17a0805240555n393b612bs1348638974a68e9d@mail.gmail.com> So today's Bob Dylan's birthday (with barely a mention in the Writer's Almanac!). Why not celebrate by posting your favorite Dylan song? Extra points for posting a link to where we can actually *hear* the song. Here's a current fave: Masters of War Bob Dylan Come you masters of war You that build all the guns You that build the death planes You that build the big bombs You that hide behind walls You that hide behind desks I just want you to know I can see through your masks You that never done nothin' But build to destroy You play with my world Like it's your little toy You put a gun in my hand And you hide from my eyes And you turn and run farther When the fast bullets fly Like Judas of old You lie and deceive A world war can be won You want me to believe But I see through your eyes And I see through your brain Like I see through the water That runs down my drain You fasten the triggers For the others to fire Then you set back and watch When the death count gets higher You hide in your mansion As young people's blood Flows out of their bodies And is buried in the mud You've thrown the worst fear That can ever be hurled Fear to bring children Into the world For threatening my baby Unborn and unnamed You ain't worth the blood That runs in your veins How much do I know To talk out of turn You might say that I'm young You might say I'm unlearned But there's one thing I know Though I'm younger than you Even Jesus would never Forgive what you do Let me ask you one question Is your money that good Will it buy you forgiveness Do you think that it could I think you will find When your death takes its toll All the money you made Will never buy back your soul And I hope that you die And your death'll come soon I will follow your casket In the pale afternoon And I'll watch while you're lowered Down to your deathbed And I'll stand o'er your grave 'Til I'm sure that you're dead Jeff Newberry -- "Why are you wearing that stupid *man* suit?" http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080524/7957fc85/attachment.html From grahamd at ripon.edu Sat May 24 09:25:57 2008 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:54 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Happy Birthday, Bob Dylan In-Reply-To: <731bb17a0805240555n393b612bs1348638974a68e9d@mail.gmail.com> References: <731bb17a0805240555n393b612bs1348638974a68e9d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <669CBBCA-1ED4-45C6-B2BD-B78E77FEC89A@ripon.edu> She Belongs to Me She's got everything she needs, She's an artist, she don't look back. She's got everything she needs, She's an artist, she don't look back. She can take the dark out of the nighttime And paint the daytime black. You will start out standing Proud to steal her anything she sees. You will start out standing Proud to steal her anything she sees. But you will wind up peeking through her keyhole Down upon your knees. She never stumbles, She's got no place to fall. She never stumbles, She's got no place to fall. She's nobody's child, The Law can't touch her at all. She wears an Egyptian ring That sparkles before she speaks. She wears an Egyptian ring That sparkles before she speaks. She's a hypnotist collector, You are a walking antique. Bow down to her on Sunday, Salute her when her birthday comes. Bow down to her on Sunday, Salute her when her birthday comes. For Halloween give her a trumpet And for Christmas, buy her a drum. --Bob Dylan Here's a live clip of him singing this song, from 1965, including a glimpse of none other than Allen Ginsberg before Dylan goes onstage. A quite nice example of the early acoustic Dylan. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dyofy3XGSyE ======================================== David Graham grahamd@ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.mac.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== On May 24, 2008, at 7:55 AM, Jeff Newberry wrote: > So today's Bob Dylan's birthday (with barely a mention in the > Writer's Almanac!). Why not celebrate by posting your favorite > Dylan song? Extra points for posting a link to where we can > actually hear the song. > > Here's a current fave: > > Masters of War > Bob Dylan > > Come you masters of war > You that build all the guns > You that build the death planes > You that build the big bombs > You that hide behind walls > You that hide behind desks > I just want you to know > I can see through your masks > > You that never done nothin' > But build to destroy > You play with my world > Like it's your little toy > You put a gun in my hand > And you hide from my eyes > And you turn and run farther > When the fast bullets fly > > Like Judas of old > You lie and deceive > A world war can be won > You want me to believe > But I see through your eyes > And I see through your brain > Like I see through the water > That runs down my drain > > You fasten the triggers > For the others to fire > Then you set back and watch > When the death count gets higher > You hide in your mansion > As young people's blood > Flows out of their bodies > And is buried in the mud > > You've thrown the worst fear > That can ever be hurled > Fear to bring children > Into the world > For threatening my baby > Unborn and unnamed > You ain't worth the blood > That runs in your veins > > How much do I know > To talk out of turn > You might say that I'm young > You might say I'm unlearned > But there's one thing I know > Though I'm younger than you > Even Jesus would never > Forgive what you do > > Let me ask you one question > Is your money that good > Will it buy you forgiveness > Do you think that it could > I think you will find > When your death takes its toll > All the money you made > Will never buy back your soul > > And I hope that you die > And your death'll come soon > I will follow your casket > In the pale afternoon > And I'll watch while you're lowered > Down to your deathbed > And I'll stand o'er your grave > 'Til I'm sure that you're dead > > > > Jeff Newberry > > -- > "Why are you wearing that stupid *man* suit?" > > http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080524/3dfe6015/attachment.html From anny.ballardini at tin.it Sat May 24 09:36:26 2008 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:54 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Happy Birthday, Bob Dylan In-Reply-To: <669CBBCA-1ED4-45C6-B2BD-B78E77FEC89A@ripon.edu> References: <731bb17a0805240555n393b612bs1348638974a68e9d@mail.gmail.com> <669CBBCA-1ED4-45C6-B2BD-B78E77FEC89A@ripon.edu> Message-ID: <818C3E2AECBA4CCDBE31EED75AA2B3A7@AnnyPC> Just like a woman http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ueGuzmotwaI&feature=related ----- Original Message ----- From: David Graham To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views Sent: Saturday, May 24, 2008 3:25 PM Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Happy Birthday, Bob Dylan She Belongs to Me She's got everything she needs, She's an artist, she don't look back. She's got everything she needs, She's an artist, she don't look back. She can take the dark out of the nighttime And paint the daytime black. You will start out standing Proud to steal her anything she sees. You will start out standing Proud to steal her anything she sees. But you will wind up peeking through her keyhole Down upon your knees. She never stumbles, She's got no place to fall. She never stumbles, She's got no place to fall. She's nobody's child, The Law can't touch her at all. She wears an Egyptian ring That sparkles before she speaks. She wears an Egyptian ring That sparkles before she speaks. She's a hypnotist collector, You are a walking antique. Bow down to her on Sunday, Salute her when her birthday comes. Bow down to her on Sunday, Salute her when her birthday comes. For Halloween give her a trumpet And for Christmas, buy her a drum. --Bob Dylan Here's a live clip of him singing this song, from 1965, including a glimpse of none other than Allen Ginsberg before Dylan goes onstage. A quite nice example of the early acoustic Dylan. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dyofy3XGSyE ======================================== David Graham grahamd@ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.mac.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== On May 24, 2008, at 7:55 AM, Jeff Newberry wrote: So today's Bob Dylan's birthday (with barely a mention in the Writer's Almanac!). Why not celebrate by posting your favorite Dylan song? Extra points for posting a link to where we can actually hear the song. Here's a current fave: Masters of War Bob Dylan Come you masters of war You that build all the guns You that build the death planes You that build the big bombs You that hide behind walls You that hide behind desks I just want you to know I can see through your masks You that never done nothin' But build to destroy You play with my world Like it's your little toy You put a gun in my hand And you hide from my eyes And you turn and run farther When the fast bullets fly Like Judas of old You lie and deceive A world war can be won You want me to believe But I see through your eyes And I see through your brain Like I see through the water That runs down my drain You fasten the triggers For the others to fire Then you set back and watch When the death count gets higher You hide in your mansion As young people's blood Flows out of their bodies And is buried in the mud You've thrown the worst fear That can ever be hurled Fear to bring children Into the world For threatening my baby Unborn and unnamed You ain't worth the blood That runs in your veins How much do I know To talk out of turn You might say that I'm young You might say I'm unlearned But there's one thing I know Though I'm younger than you Even Jesus would never Forgive what you do Let me ask you one question Is your money that good Will it buy you forgiveness Do you think that it could I think you will find When your death takes its toll All the money you made Will never buy back your soul And I hope that you die And your death'll come soon I will follow your casket In the pale afternoon And I'll watch while you're lowered Down to your deathbed And I'll stand o'er your grave 'Til I'm sure that you're dead Jeff Newberry -- "Why are you wearing that stupid *man* suit?" http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.24.1/1463 - Release Date: 5/23/2008 3:36 PM -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080524/14c6bf10/attachment.html From anny.ballardini at tin.it Sat May 24 09:39:38 2008 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:54 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Just like a woman Message-ID: <34B1B9B88BB74B63A00D60155E6DC12E@AnnyPC> sorry sorry I apologize: here ! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ueGuzmotwaI Nobody feels any pain Tonight as I stand inside the rain Ev'rybody knows That Baby's got new clothes But lately I see her ribbons and her bows Have fallen from her curls. She takes just like a woman, yes, she does She makes love just like a woman, yes, she does And she aches just like a woman But she breaks just like a little girl. Queen Mary, she's my friend Yes, I believe I'll go see her again Nobody has to guess That Baby can't be blessed Till she sees finally that she's like all the rest With her fog, her amphetamine and her pearls. She takes just like a woman, yes, she does She makes love just like a woman, yes, she does And she aches just like a woman But she breaks just like a little girl. It was raining from the first And I was dying there of thirst So I came in here And your long-time curse hurts But what's worse Is this pain in here I can't stay in here Ain't it clear that-- I just can't fit Yes, I believe it's time for us to quit When we meet again Introduced as friends Please don't let on that you knew me when I was hungry and it was your world. Ah, you fake just like a woman, yes, you do You make love just like a woman, yes, you do Then you ache just like a woman But you break just like a little girl. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080524/4777315a/attachment.html From grahamd at ripon.edu Sat May 24 09:56:10 2008 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:54 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Happy Birthday, Bob Dylan In-Reply-To: <669CBBCA-1ED4-45C6-B2BD-B78E77FEC89A@ripon.edu> References: <731bb17a0805240555n393b612bs1348638974a68e9d@mail.gmail.com> <669CBBCA-1ED4-45C6-B2BD-B78E77FEC89A@ripon.edu> Message-ID: Love Minus Zero / No Limit My love she speaks like silence, Without ideals or violence, She doesn't have to say she's faithful, Yet she's true, like ice, like fire. People carry roses, Make promises by the hours, My love she laughs like the flowers, Valentines can't buy her. In the dime stores and bus stations, People talk of situations, Read books, repeat quotations, Draw conclusions on the wall. Some speak of the future, My love she speaks softly, She knows there's no success like failure And that failure's no success at all. The cloak and dagger dangles, Madams light the candles. In ceremonies of the horsemen, Even the pawn must hold a grudge. Statues made of match sticks, Crumble into one another, My love winks, she does not bother, She knows too much to argue or to judge. The bridge at midnight trembles, The country doctor rambles, Bankers' nieces seek perfection, Expecting all the gifts that wise men bring. The wind howls like a hammer, The night blows cold and rainy, My love she's like some raven At my window with a broken wing. -- Bob Dylan A version I've always liked, performed by Eric Clapton at the 30th Anniversary concert: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6oDlNRnBDBk And while I'm at it, Clapton's version of "Don't Think Twice," from the same show. God bless YouTube. Some pretty tasty guitar playing on both of these. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FCJ15r-ny5Q&feature=related ======================================== David Graham grahamd@ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.mac.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080524/c85adddf/attachment.html From AlMaginnes at aol.com Sat May 24 10:30:29 2008 From: AlMaginnes at aol.com (AlMaginnes@aol.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:54 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Happy Birthday, Bob Dylan Message-ID: My favorite Dylan tune. Ain't it just like the night to play tricks when you're tryin' to be so quiet? We sit here stranded, though we're all doin' our best to deny it And Louise holds a handful of rain, temptin' you to defy it Lights flicker from the opposite loft In this room the heat pipes just cough The country music station plays soft But there's nothing, really nothing to turn off Just Louise and her lover so entwined And these visions of Johanna that conquer my mind In the empty lot where the ladies play blindman's bluff with the key chain And the all-night girls they whisper of escapades out on the "D" train We can hear the night watchman click his flashlight Ask himself if it's him or them that's really insane Louise, she's all right, she's just near She's delicate and seems like the mirror But she just makes it all too concise and too clear That Johanna's not here The ghost of 'lectricity howls in the bones of her face Where these visions of Johanna have now taken my place Now, little boy lost, he takes himself so seriously He brags of his misery, he likes to live dangerously And when bringing her name up He speaks of a farewell kiss to me He's sure got a lotta gall to be so useless and all Muttering small talk at the wall while I'm in the hall How can I explain? Oh, it's so hard to get on And these visions of Johanna, they kept me up past the dawn Inside the museums, Infinity goes up on trial Voices echo this is what salvation must be like after a while But Mona Lisa musta had the highway blues You can tell by the way she smiles See the primitive wallflower freeze When the jelly-faced women all sneeze Hear the one with the mustache say, "Jeeze I can't find my knees" Oh, jewels and binoculars hang from the head of the mule But these visions of Johanna, they make it all seem so cruel The peddler now speaks to the countess who's pretending to care for him Sayin', "Name me someone that's not a parasite and I'll go out and say a prayer for him" But like Louise always says "Ya can't look at much, can ya man?" As she, herself, prepares for him And Madonna, she still has not showed We see this empty cage now corrode Where her cape of the stage once had flowed The fiddler, he now steps to the road He writes ev'rything's been returned which was owed On the back of the fish truck that loads While my conscience explodes The harmonicas play the skeleton keys and the rain And these visions of Johanna are now all that remain **************Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with Tyler Florence" on AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4&?NCID=aolfod00030000000002) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080524/cb26fb51/attachment.html From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sat May 24 11:56:39 2008 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:54 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Whitman Versus Pound In-Reply-To: References: <731bb17a0805240555n393b612bs1348638974a68e9d@mail.gmail.com><669CBBCA-1ED4-45C6-B2BD-B78E77FEC89A@ripon.edu> Message-ID: <48383AB7.8030707@nut-n-but.net> I said I wasn't gonna get into this again, but I thought of something I consider uncontroversial to ask. Pound is famous for saying his CANTOS didn't cohere, or something to that effect. David scoffingly compared the CANTOS to "Song of Myself," which was unfair because--as I understand it--"Song of Myself" is part of LEAVES OF GRASS, a long poem like the CANTOS, and the CANTOS has many terrific stand-alones I think many would accept as at the level of "Song of Myself." "Canto XLIX," may be my favorite. It also has a lot of dead poems, as does LEAVES OF GRASS. Yes, that part is controversial. But what I really wanted to find out about that shouldn't be controversial, or AS controversial, is if LEAVES OF GRASS is considered to cohere any better than the CANTOS (Which I do not think coheres though some scholars argue it does)? Is LEAVES OF GRASS supposed to, or is it just a collection of poems? It doesn't cohere any better than the CANTOS does, for me. (To be controversial, again, I think each group would be better if it did, but isn't terribly marred by not.) --Bob G. From chris.lott at gmail.com Sat May 24 11:20:23 2008 From: chris.lott at gmail.com (Chris Lott) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:54 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Whitman Versus Pound In-Reply-To: <48383AB7.8030707@nut-n-but.net> References: <731bb17a0805240555n393b612bs1348638974a68e9d@mail.gmail.com> <669CBBCA-1ED4-45C6-B2BD-B78E77FEC89A@ripon.edu> <48383AB7.8030707@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <9b1b9dab0805240820xeb33bdcvc9ea06b3301c6c07@mail.gmail.com> On Sat, May 24, 2008 at 7:56 AM, Bob Grumman wrote: > Yes, that part is controversial. But what I really wanted to find out about > that shouldn't be controversial, or AS controversial, is if LEAVES OF GRASS > is considered to cohere any better than the CANTOS (Which I do not think > coheres though some scholars argue it does)? Is LEAVES OF GRASS supposed > to, or is it just a collection of poems? It doesn't cohere any better than > the CANTOS does, for me. (To be controversial, again, I think each group > would be better if it did, but isn't terribly marred by not.) I think his intent is somewhere in between... about 2/3 of the way along a spectrum from a simple collection to novel-like coherence. Whitman constantly revised the collection for most of his life, starting with just 20 poems in the first publication. In addition to growing (obviously), the grouping of the poems already "in" changed constantly... those groups are the most important and internally-connected units. c From grahamd at ripon.edu Sat May 24 11:29:21 2008 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:54 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Toot! Message-ID: <80B07B15-8EBD-4BD8-9543-22C646FCE1E6@ripon.edu> I hope you'll check out the new issue of Poemeleon, with a very interesting feature on persona poems. In fact, perhaps one good page to begin your reading might be this one: http://www.poemeleon.org/david-graham/ Poems also by Bob Hicok, Major Jackson, Dorianne Laux, Patricia Fargnoli & others. Essay by Jeannine Hall Gailey on "Why We Wear Masks." Main page here: http://www.poemeleon.org/table-of-contents3/ ======================================== David Graham grahamd@ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.mac.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080524/bdef56f9/attachment.html From anny.ballardini at tin.it Sat May 24 11:40:17 2008 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:55 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] my favorite Message-ID: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-5JvACzGp8&feature=related or http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DdVVmglQfFE&feature=related Knockin' on Heaven's Door Mama, take this badge off of me I can't use it anymore. It's gettin' dark, too dark for me to see I feel like I'm knockin' on heaven's door. Knock, knock, knockin' on heaven's door Knock, knock, knockin' on heaven's door Knock, knock, knockin' on heaven's door Knock, knock, knockin' on heaven's door Mama, put my guns in the ground I can't shoot them anymore. That long black cloud is comin' down I feel like I'm knockin' on heaven's door. Knock, knock, knockin' on heaven's door Knock, knock, knockin' on heaven's door Knock, knock, knockin' on heaven's door Knock, knock, knockin' on heaven's door -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080524/7a178885/attachment.html From Opus40-01 at opus40.org Sat May 24 12:34:20 2008 From: Opus40-01 at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:55 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Happy Birthday, Bob Dylan In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4838438C.6080607@opus40.org> Here are two. LILY, ROSEMARY AND THE JACK OF HEARTS The festival was over, the boys were all plannin' for a fall, The cabaret was quiet except for the drillin' in the wall. The curfew had been lifted and the gamblin' wheel shut down, Anyone with any sense had already left town. He was standin' in the doorway lookin' like the Jack of Hearts. He moved across the mirrored room, "Set it up for everyone," he said, Then everyone commenced to do what they were doin' before he turned their heads. Then he walked up to a stranger and he asked him with a grin, "Could you kindly tell me, friend, what time the show begins?" Then he moved into the corner, face down like the Jack of Hearts. Backstage the girls were playin' five-card stud by the stairs, Lily had two queens, she was hopin' for a third to match her pair. Outside the streets were fillin' up, the window was open wide, A gentle breeze was blowin', you could feel it from inside. Lily called another bet and drew up the Jack of Hearts. Big Jim was no one's fool, he owned the town's only diamond mine, He made his usual entrance lookin' so dandy and so fine. With his bodyguards and silver cane and every hair in place, He took whatever he wanted to and he laid it all to waste. But his bodyguards and silver cane were no match for the Jack of Hearts. Rosemary combed her hair and took a carriage into town, She slipped in through the side door lookin' like a queen without a crown. She fluttered her false eyelashes and whispered in his ear, "Sorry, darlin', that I'm late," but he didn't seem to hear. He was starin' into space over at the Jack of Hearts. "I know I've seen that face before," Big Jim was thinkin' to himself, "Maybe down in Mexico or a picture up on somebody's shelf." But then the crowd began to stamp their feet and the house lights did dim And in the darkness of the room there was only Jim and him, Starin' at the butterfly who just drew the Jack of Hearts. Lily was a princess, she was fair-skinned and precious as a child, She did whatever she had to do, she had that certain flash every time she smiled. She'd come away from a broken home, had lots of strange affairs With men in every walk of life which took her everywhere. But she'd never met anyone quite like the Jack of Hearts. The hangin' judge came in unnoticed and was being wined and dined, The drillin' in the wall kept up but no one seemed to pay it any mind. It was known all around that Lily had Jim's ring And nothing would ever come between Lily and the king. No, nothin' ever would except maybe the Jack of Hearts. Rosemary started drinkin' hard and seein' her reflection in the knife, She was tired of the attention, tired of playin' the role of Big Jim's wife. She had done a lot of bad things, even once tried suicide, Was lookin' to do just one good deed before she died. She was gazin' to the future, riding on the Jack of Hearts. Lily washed her face, took her dress off and buried it away. "Has your luck run out?" she laughed at him, "Well, I guess you must have known it would someday. Be careful not to touch the wall, there's a brand-new coat of paint, I'm glad to see you're still alive, you're lookin' like a saint." Down the hallway footsteps were comin' for the Jack of Hearts. The backstage manager was pacing all around by his chair. "There's something funny going on," he said, "I can just feel it in the air." He went to get the hangin' judge, but the hangin' judge was drunk, As the leading actor hurried by in the costume of a monk. There was no actor anywhere better than the Jack of Hearts. Lily's arms were locked around the man that she dearly loved to touch, She forgot all about the man she couldn't stand who hounded her so much. "I've missed you so," she said to him, and he felt she was sincere, But just beyond the door he felt jealousy and fear. Just another night in the life of the Jack of Hearts. No one knew the circumstance but they say that it happened pretty quick, The door to the dressing room burst open and a cold revolver clicked. And Big Jim was standin' there, ya couldn't say surprised, Rosemary right beside him, steady in her eyes. She was with Big Jim but she was leanin' to the Jack of Hearts. Two doors down the boys finally made it through the wall And cleaned out the bank safe, it's said that they got off with quite a haul. In the darkness by the riverbed they waited on the ground For one more member who had business back in town. But they couldn't go no further without the Jack of Hearts. The next day was hangin' day, the sky was overcast and black, Big Jim lay covered up, killed by a penknife in the back. And Rosemary on the gallows, she didn't even blink, The hangin' judge was sober, he hadn't had a drink. The only person on the scene missin' was the Jack of Hearts. The cabaret was empty now, a sign said, "Closed for repair," Lily had already taken all of the dye out of her hair. She was thinkin' 'bout her father, who she very rarely saw, Thinkin' 'bout Rosemary and thinkin' about the law. But, most of all she was thinkin' 'bout the Jack of Hearts. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gD0V-MC1GUo MAN OF PEACE Look out your window, baby, there's a scene you'd like to catch, The band is playing "Dixie," a man got his hand outstretched. Could be the Fuhrer Could be the local priest. You know sometimes Satan comes as a man of peace. He got a sweet gift of gab, he got a harmonious tongue, He knows every song of love that ever has been sung. Good intentions can be evil, Both hands can be full of grease. You know that sometimes Satan comes as a man of peace. Well, first he's in the background, then he's in the front, Both eyes are looking like they're on a rabbit hunt. Nobody can see through him, No, not even the Chief of Police. You know that sometimes Satan comes as a man of peace. Well, he catch you when you're hoping for a glimpse of the sun, Catch you when your troubles feel like they weigh a ton. He could be standing next to you, The person that you'd notice least. I hear that sometimes Satan comes as a man of peace. Well, he can be fascinating, he can be dull, He can ride down Niagara Falls in the barrels of your skull. I can smell something cooking, I can tell there's going to be a feast. You know that sometimes Satan comes as a man of peace. He's a great humanitarian, he's a great philanthropist, He knows just where to touch you, honey, and how you like to be kissed. He'll put both his arms around you, You can feel the tender touch of the beast. You know that sometimes Satan comes as a man of peace. Well, the howling wolf will howl tonight, the king snake will crawl, Trees that've stood for a thousand years suddenly will fall. Wanna get married? Do it now, Tomorrow all activity will cease. You know that sometimes Satan comes as a man of peace. Somewhere Mama's weeping for her blue-eyed boy, She's holding them little white shoes and that little broken toy And he's following a star, The same one them three men followed from the East. I hear that sometimes Satan comes as a man of peace. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pUi0cQBaEJs AlMaginnes@aol.com wrote: > My favorite Dylan tune. > > Ain't it just like the night to play tricks when you're tryin' to be > so quiet? > We sit here stranded, though we're all doin' our best to deny it > And Louise holds a handful of rain, temptin' you to defy it > Lights flicker from the opposite loft > In this room the heat pipes just cough > The country music station plays soft > But there's nothing, really nothing to turn off > Just Louise and her lover so entwined > And these visions of Johanna that conquer my mind > > In the empty lot where the ladies play blindman's bluff with the key chain > And the all-night girls they whisper of escapades out on the "D" train > We can hear the night watchman click his flashlight > Ask himself if it's him or them that's really insane > Louise, she's all right, she's just near > She's delicate and seems like the mirror > But she just makes it all too concise and too clear > That Johanna's not here > The ghost of 'lectricity howls in the bones of her face > Where these visions of Johanna have now taken my place > > Now, little boy lost, he takes himself so seriously > He brags of his misery, he likes to live dangerously > And when bringing her name up > He speaks of a farewell kiss to me > He's sure got a lotta gall to be so useless and all > Muttering small talk at the wall while I'm in the hall > How can I explain? > Oh, it's so hard to get on > And these visions of Johanna, they kept me up past the dawn > > Inside the museums, Infinity goes up on trial > Voices echo this is what salvation must be like after a while > But Mona Lisa musta had the highway blues > You can tell by the way she smiles > See the primitive wallflower freeze > When the jelly-faced women all sneeze > Hear the one with the mustache say, "Jeeze > I can't find my knees" > Oh, jewels and binoculars hang from the head of the mule > But these visions of Johanna, they make it all seem so cruel > > The peddler now speaks to the countess who's pretending to care for him > Sayin', "Name me someone that's not a parasite and I'll go out and say > a prayer for him" > But like Louise always says > "Ya can't look at much, can ya man?" > As she, herself, prepares for him > And Madonna, she still has not showed > We see this empty cage now corrode > Where her cape of the stage once had flowed > The fiddler, he now steps to the road > He writes ev'rything's been returned which was owed > On the back of the fish truck that loads > While my conscience explodes > The harmonicas play the skeleton keys and the rain > And these visions of Johanna are now all that remain > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with Tyler > Florence" on AOL Food > . > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ The moral is this: in American verse, The better you are, the pay is worse. --Corey Ford From Opus40-01 at opus40.org Sat May 24 13:00:35 2008 From: Opus40-01 at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:55 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Toot! In-Reply-To: <80B07B15-8EBD-4BD8-9543-22C646FCE1E6@ripon.edu> References: <80B07B15-8EBD-4BD8-9543-22C646FCE1E6@ripon.edu> Message-ID: <483849B3.3020602@opus40.org> Good work, David. David Graham wrote: > I hope you'll check out the new issue of /Poemeleon/, with a very > interesting feature on persona poems. In fact, perhaps one good page > to begin your reading might be this one: > > http://www.poemeleon.org/david-graham/ > > Poems also by Bob Hicok, Major Jackson, Dorianne Laux, Patricia > Fargnoli & others. Essay by Jeannine Hall Gailey on "Why We Wear > Masks." > > Main page here: http://www.poemeleon.org/table-of-contents3/ > > > > ======================================== > David Graham > grahamd@ripon.edu > > Home Page: > http://web.mac.com/drjazz > > Poetry Library: > http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html > ========================================== > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ The moral is this: in American verse, The better you are, the pay is worse. --Corey Ford From JforJames at aol.com Sat May 24 13:01:03 2008 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames@aol.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:55 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Another look at Whitman Message-ID: Whitman: _I say we had better look our nation searchingly in the face, like a physician diagnosing some deep disease._ ?Democratic Vistas _Look for me under your bootsoles._ On Long Island, they moved my clapboard house Across a turnpike, & then felt so guilty they Named a shopping center after me! Now that I?m required reading in your high schools, Teenagers call me a fool. Now what I sang stops breathing. And yet It was only when everyone stopped believing in me That I began to live again? First in the thin whine of Montana fence wire, Then in the transparent, cast-off garments hung In the windows of the poorest families, Then in the glad music of Charlie Parker. At times now, I even come back to watch you >From the eyes of a taciturn boy at Malibu. Across the counter at the beach concession stand, I sell you hot dogs, Pepsi, cigarettes? My blond hair long, greasy, & swept back In a vain old ducktail, deliciously Out of style. And no one notices. Once, I even came back as me, An aging homosexual who ran the Tilt-o-Whirl At country fairs, the chilled paint on each gondola Changing color as it picked up speed, And a Mardi Gras tattoo on my left shoulder. A few of you must have seen my photographs, For when you looked back, I thought you caught the meaning of my stare: Still water, Merciless. A Kosmos. One of the roughs. And Charlie Parker?s grave outside Kansas City Cover with weeds. Leave me alone. A father who?s outlived his only child. To find me now will cost you everything. --Larry Levis, _The Selected Levis_, (U of Pittsburgh Press, 2000) **************Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with Tyler Florence" on AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4&?NCID=aolfod00030000000002) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080524/9fd78376/attachment.html From anny.ballardini at tin.it Sat May 24 13:10:21 2008 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:55 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Toot! In-Reply-To: <483849B3.3020602@opus40.org> References: <80B07B15-8EBD-4BD8-9543-22C646FCE1E6@ripon.edu> <483849B3.3020602@opus40.org> Message-ID: Very good. From: "TheOldMole" Sent: Saturday, May 24, 2008 7:00 PM > Good work, David. > > David Graham wrote: >> I hope you'll check out the new issue of /Poemeleon/, with a very >> interesting feature on persona poems. In fact, perhaps one good page >> to begin your reading might be this one: >> >> http://www.poemeleon.org/david-graham/ >> >> Poems also by Bob Hicok, Major Jackson, Dorianne Laux, Patricia >> Fargnoli & others. Essay by Jeannine Hall Gailey on "Why We Wear >> Masks." >> >> Main page here: http://www.poemeleon.org/table-of-contents3/ >> >> >> >> ======================================== >> David Graham >> grahamd@ripon.edu >> >> Home Page: >> http://web.mac.com/drjazz >> >> Poetry Library: >> http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html >> ========================================== >>-- > Tad Richards > http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ > http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ > > The moral is this: in American verse, > The better you are, the pay is worse. > --Corey Ford > From JforJames at aol.com Sat May 24 13:23:20 2008 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames@aol.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:55 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Another look at Whitman Message-ID: In a message dated 5/24/2008 1:01:29 PM Eastern Daylight Time, JforJames@aol.com writes: And Charlie Parker?s grave outside Kansas City Cover with weeds. Mistyped, should be "Covered with..." **************Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with Tyler Florence" on AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4&?NCID=aolfod00030000000002) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080524/4e306fa9/attachment.html From jeff.newberry at gmail.com Sat May 24 13:56:34 2008 From: jeff.newberry at gmail.com (Jeff Newberry) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:55 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Another look at Whitman In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <731bb17a0805241056j3557f9fasa6f4dbbeead182e3@mail.gmail.com> Another view, this time by Jake Adam York, editor of *Copper Nickel*, and author of *Murder Ballads *and *A Murmuration of Starlings*. This poem is from *Murder Ballads* (Elixir Press 2007): Walt Whitman in Alabama Maybe on his way to Gadsden , Queen City of the Coosa , to speak with the pilots and inland sailors, to cross the fords Jackson ran with blood or meet the mayor who bought the ladies' favors with river quartz, maybe east from some trip west to see or returning north from New Orleans or just lost in those years after The War as legend has it, after the bannings, when he'd grown tired of puffs and plates, after he'd grown the beard and begun to catch things there he had to walk off or sing unwritten, maybe when the open road opened on mockingbirds two and two ? no one knows, though the stories have him here recapturing Attalla, shaking poems from his hair on the steps of local churches. Maybe it was the end of many letters, the last of hospital days, another sleight to make his hand come alive when he couldn't bring some Southron home. I see him there remembering his poems, his back to the door, singing out to the garden of the world, the tropical spring of pine and jasmine, how wondrous it was the pent-up river washed to green their farms, the creeks swole with mountain dew to sprout the corn, herbage of poke and collard, spinach and bean, to wash the roots of every leaf to come. But more I wonder what he did not say, whether the doors were closed on the room where none thought Jesus ever naked, whether he went down Gadsden 's Broad to the bluff where a hundred years thence someone fabled a child lost from the arms of his hispanic mother and almost saved by a cop who brought from his pocket a shirt's worth of proof before the woman vanished with her English, before the psychics started rowing down the channel to listen for the baby's dreams ? all years after the whorehouses, the fires, Reconstruction and true religion came, after Whitman said his piece and left the county to its mayors, its wars and local dramas, Broad Street and its theatres to opening and closing and being torn down to photograph and rumor where Vaudeville variety traveled in those years before the world became real and history stilled, before the damns stalled the yearly flood that washed the roots and made new fields from catfish and shit and the mountain dead, before the sun in the tassels was wormed to shine, before shine dried into the hills with the snakes, the poetry, the legend. I imagine him here in the different city, bathing in the yellow light as the river slips beneath the bridge, flickering like a candle or like the body or like the bodies lit up with gasoline and beer, tremble of taillights, while the statue of the Civil War heroine points fingerless down Broad, down the stream of headlamps and embers of burning weed, a congregation in which his secrets and his song would be unwelcome, though he slake some secret thirsts, his orotund voice tune our ears to the river's whisper, a baby cradled in branches deep beneath the bridge. Its ribs filter the Coosa 's brown. Its arms raise the crops. And every night it whispers the town in some new forgotten tongue. Jeff Newberry On Sat, May 24, 2008 at 1:23 PM, wrote: > In a message dated 5/24/2008 1:01:29 PM Eastern Daylight Time, > JforJames@aol.com writes: > > > And Charlie Parker's grave outside Kansas City > Cover with weeds. > > Mistyped, should be "Covered with..." > > > > > ------------------------------ > Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with Tyler Florence" > on AOL Food > . > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- "Why are you wearing that stupid *man* suit?" http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080524/5c4dd9a0/attachment.html From skip at louisiana.edu Sat May 24 16:39:58 2008 From: skip at louisiana.edu (Skip Fox) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:55 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: One sap and one root In-Reply-To: <79A2E6A1-9B5C-4196-828C-BD24CCFB94A6@ripon.edu> Message-ID: <6876D7D73AEA4086AD328C72EC8402EB@win.louisiana.edu> Pound's assessment not mine. -----Original Message----- From: new-poetry-bounces@wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto:new-poetry-bounces@wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of David Graham Sent: Friday, May 23, 2008 5:01 PM To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: One sap and one root Quite reasonable description of Pound's attitudes, but I can't agree with the suggestion that Whitman lacks craft. (Pound may well have thought he did, but Pound was wrong about a lot of things besides Mussolini.) Of course, I am not thinking of Whitman's lesser works, just as it wouldn't be fair to judge Pound simply as the author of "A Pact." But I'd go so far as to say that Whitman was a supreme craftsman. I suppose one kind of evidence for this proposition would be the extensive revision he conducted, the way he kept honing and polishing things until they assumed the form we remember. "Poem of Walt Whitman, An American" somehow isn't quite as well turned a title as "Song of Myself," to pick one famous example. Or "A Child's Reminiscence," which only after some trial and error coalesced into "Out of the Cradle Endlessly Rocking." And similarly with many other specific poems and passages (also acknowledging that he too often made things worse in revision, naturally). As it happens, I can pinpoint the exact night when I decided that Whitman was a great craftsman. I was not much of a Whitman fan until after college, when I heard Galway Kinnell read. He devoted a whole reading to Whitman. I think it may have been entirely from "Song of Myself." That was one of the few big lightbulb moments in my poetic life. More precisely, the lightbulb did not just go off in my mind, it went off in my ears: For the first time, really, I realized why Whitman was a great poet. His finest poems are superb in the way that no great poems can fail to be: in the music of their language. Kinnell reads aloud beautifully, of course; but even more, he is very much in sync with Whitman's peculiar sound, both extravagant (sprawling) and also somehow delicate. Another key element in my change of heart was Randall Jarrell's essay "Some Lines From Whitman," in which he asserts, "To show Whitman for what he is one does not need to praise or explain or argue, one needs simply to quote." Jarrell proceeds to quote great gobs of Whitman's most striking passages, highlighting his exuberant rhythms, his extravagant diction, the beautifully textured and, yes, nuanced lyricism which I had not thought the Good Gray Poet of "O Captain! My Captain!" was capable. Full disclosure: I've been trying to complete an essay lately in which I take up Whitman's craft. Trying to work out to my own satisfaction, at least, why his lines often linger in mind while those of, say, Carl Sandburg, do not. At the most obvious level of technique they're doing the same thing; but Whitman's free verse at its best is leagues ahead of Sandburg's (and, for that matter, all but the very best of Ginsberg's and almost anyone else's). I Heard You Solemn-Sweet Pipes Of The Organ I heard you solemn-sweet pipes of the organ as last Sunday morn I passed the church, Winds of autumn, as I walk'd the woods at dusk I heard your long-stretch'd sighs up above so mournful, I heard the perfect Italian tenor singing at the opera, I heard the soprano in the midst of the quartet singing; Heart of my love! you too I heard murmuring low through one of the wrists around my head, Heard the pulse of you when all was still ringing little bells last night under my ear. [Leaves of Grass, 1861] ======================================== David Graham grahamd@ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.mac.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== On May 23, 2008, at 4:06 PM, Skip Fox wrote: I would agree with this except that it misses one point. Pound believed deeply in craft (as The Collected Early Poems attests ably). Breaking "the new wood" seems to indicate an appreciation for Whitman's (re)creation of free verse, use of the American idiom, opening subject matter, emerging modernity, etc. The poem implies that Pound hadn't simply been struggling with a brilliant father whose presence might be inhibitory, but with a brilliant father he thought to be centrally wrong on the need for craft, an issue central to him. Thus, he writes, "Now it is now time for the carving." Probably in concert with Eliot's dictum that no verse if free for the person who wishes to do a good job. The implication is that he hated Whitman for his sprawl but now understands and appreciates Whitman's contribution, but that now he (and his generation) will roll up their collective sleeves and craft this new material. (I like the last line, by the way. It is forward looking, optimistic, direct, use a pretty simple and straightforward language, etc. For Pound, it is not necessarily ironic or negative to use business as a lexical metaphor.) How long after 1915, when the poem was first published I think, does his disgust with free verse that he felt to be unconsidered (uncrafted), became more pronounced or public with his rejection of Amygism? Two years? In fact his disgust with watery free verse was in some part responsible for his writing "Hugh Selwyn Mauberley," wasn't it? Why else did Pound return to such formal perfection after the brilliant work in free verse that proceeded it? (I'm not claiming that the poem addresses this issue except in the style he chose to write it.) Not arguing, just thinking out loud on a poem I've loved and thought about (and taught) for years. Always ready for clarification, qualification, etc. -----Original Message----- From: new-poetry-bounces@wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto:new-poetry-bounces@wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of David Weinstock Sent: Friday, May 23, 2008 2:59 PM To: Robin Hamilton; NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &,Views Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] One sap and one root I take :"A Pact" at face value. Pound acknowledges Whitman as the father of American free verse, but had to hate him for long enough to find his own voice. It's a short poem but it was not a trival struggle--you go read Whitman for a couple of hours and then try to write a poem that does not sound like Whitman. He's powerful. To learn from him we must absorb him and be changed. Then he must be shaken off, in Pound's case shaken off violently. How often do we hear Ezra Pound speaking clearly, in the first person, about something that still matters so much? I have always liked it. Is he patronizing to Whitman? He was patronizing about everyone and everything. In this case, he had the honor and good sense to admit it, apologize for it, and move on. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080524/0ebffdbd/attachment.html From JforJames at aol.com Sat May 24 16:48:36 2008 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames@aol.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:55 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Toot! Message-ID: Thanks for pointing this out...and I see you've got the Whitmanic beard going there too. Finnegan In a message dated 5/24/2008 11:29:51 AM Eastern Daylight Time, grahamd@ripon.edu writes: hope you'll check out the new issue of Poemeleon, with a very interesting feature on persona poems. In fact, perhaps one good page to begin your reading might be this one: _http://www.poemeleon.org/david-graham/_ (http://www.poemeleon.org/david-graham/) **************Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with Tyler Florence" on AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4&?NCID=aolfod00030000000002) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080524/8f446040/attachment.html From robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com Sat May 24 16:53:18 2008 From: robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com (Robin Hamilton) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:55 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Happy Birthday, Bob Dylan References: <731bb17a0805240555n393b612bs1348638974a68e9d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <060d01c8bde0$3254c780$4001a8c0@HP10652193472> Not quite my favourite, but perhaps worth reminding, as it's a bit off the beaten track, and links Dylan back to the Blues aspect of the Rake's Lament tradition. I'll have to see if I can find and post McTell's "The Dying Crapshooter's Blues. (I owe it to Christopher Walker for originally pointing this out to me.) Robin BLIND WILLIE MCTELL Seen the arrow on the doorpost Saying, "This land is condemned All the way from New Orleans To Jerusalem." I traveled through East Texas Where many martyrs fell And I know no one can sing the blues Like Blind Willie McTell Well, I heard the hoot owl singing As they were taking down the tents The stars above the barren trees Were his only audience Them charcoal gypsy maidens Can strut their feathers well But nobody can sing the blues Like Blind Willie McTell See them big plantations burning Hear the cracking of the whips Smell that sweet magnolia blooming (And) see the ghosts of slavery ships I can hear them tribes a-moaning (I can) hear the undertaker's bell (Yeah), nobody can sing the blues Like Blind Willie McTell There's a woman by the river With some fine young handsome man He's dressed up like a squire Bootlegged whiskey in his hand There's a chain gang on the highway I can hear them rebels yell And I know no one can sing the blues Like Blind Willie McTell Well, God is in heaven And we all want what's his But power and greed and corruptible seed Seem to be all that there is I'm gazing out the window Of the St. James Hotel And I know no one can sing the blues Like Blind Willie McTell -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080524/a2589e07/attachment.html From JforJames at aol.com Sat May 24 17:57:14 2008 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames@aol.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:55 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poet' Weave Message-ID: _http://wfiu.org/poetsweave.htm_ (http://wfiu.org/poetsweave.htm) Banging about various blogs, I ran across these recordings. **************Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with Tyler Florence" on AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4&?NCID=aolfod00030000000002) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080524/e65e7fbe/attachment.html From anny.ballardini at tin.it Sat May 24 18:13:41 2008 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:56 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poet' Weave In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: and I have reached the site of the most beautiful Italian magazine FMR: Franco Maria Ricci. They say that if you register you have access to the archive, but I did not succeed, might try it tomorrow, enjoy: http://www.fmronline.it/ there is the English version, too. ----- Original Message ----- From: JforJames@aol.com To: new-poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Saturday, May 24, 2008 11:57 PM Subject: [New-Poetry] Poet' Weave http://wfiu.org/poetsweave.htm Banging about various blogs, I ran across these recordings. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080525/d20f3913/attachment.html From JforJames at aol.com Sat May 24 19:00:22 2008 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames@aol.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:56 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] One sap and one root Message-ID: The Breaking of the Vessels. Chicago: University of Chicago Press, 1982. Years ago I read the essays in this book by Harold Bloom. It sticks out in my mind that in one essay Bloom stretched to make Wallace Stevens a direct heir of Whitman. Talk about anxiety of influence...I can still hear the imperious Stevens harumphing at the lariat of that improbable lineage trying to get around his ample girth. Finnegan **************Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with Tyler Florence" on AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4&?NCID=aolfod00030000000002) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080524/87a7a003/attachment.html From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sat May 24 21:03:06 2008 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:56 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] One sap and one root In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4838BACA.3040709@nut-n-but.net> JforJames@aol.com wrote: > /The Breaking of the Vessels./ Chicago: University of Chicago Press, > 1982. > > Years ago I read the essays in this book by Harold Bloom. It sticks > out in my mind > that in one essay Bloom stretched to make Wallace Stevens a direct > heir of Whitman. > Talk about anxiety of influence...I can still hear the imperious > Stevens harumphing > at the lariat of that improbable lineage trying to get around his > ample girth. > Finnegan > > I think it probably impossible not to find some influence of poet A on poet B. The line from Whitman to Stevens is horrid faint, though. They share the barbaric yawp, but Stevens uses it a lot differently than Whitman. They're both bardic. . . . --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080524/1af07abb/attachment.html From grahamd at ripon.edu Sat May 24 23:41:12 2008 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:56 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: One sap and one root In-Reply-To: <4838BACA.3040709@nut-n-but.net> References: <4838BACA.3040709@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <8EACD9E9-3715-4997-96EB-6EDF44F7D2B7@ripon.edu> I believe the link between Whitman and Stevens is Emerson. ======================================== David Graham grahamd@ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.mac.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== On May 24, 2008, at 8:03 PM, Bob Grumman wrote: > > > JforJames@aol.com wrote: >> >> The Breaking of the Vessels. Chicago: University of Chicago Press, >> 1982. >> >> Years ago I read the essays in this book by Harold Bloom. It >> sticks out in my mind >> that in one essay Bloom stretched to make Wallace Stevens a direct >> heir of Whitman. >> Talk about anxiety of influence...I can still hear the imperious >> Stevens harumphing >> at the lariat of that improbable lineage trying to get around his >> ample girth. >> Finnegan >> >> > > I think it probably impossible not to find some influence of poet A > on poet B. The line from Whitman to Stevens is horrid faint, > though. They share the barbaric yawp, but Stevens uses it a lot > differently than Whitman. They're both bardic. . . . > > --Bob > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080524/49f41339/attachment.html From anny.ballardini at tin.it Sun May 25 03:59:34 2008 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:56 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] =?windows-1252?q?Fw=3A_New_Books_from_Otoliths=97Al?= =?windows-1252?q?legrezza=2C_Cunningham=2C_Grumman?= Message-ID: <0C9FE784510B4E58AC9557ABC3C3AD6E@AnnyPC> Congratulations to Bob Grumman! And to Bill Allegrezza / my Editor, and logically to Mark Cunningham, last because I do not know him. ----- Original Message ----- From: Otoliths Editor To: Mark Young Sent: Sunday, May 25, 2008 3:45 AM Subject: New Books from Otoliths?Allegrezza, Cunningham, Grumman To complete this quarter's round of books from Otoliths...... The direct URLs are given below. The full list of what is becoming a significant catalog can be found at The Otoliths Storefront. Collective Instant William Allegrezza 108 pages Cover design by Sheila E. Murphy ISBN: 978-0-9805096-0-1 Otoliths 2008 $12.50 + p&h URL: http://www.lulu.com/content/2368639 William Allegrezza's Collective Instant brings together two chapbooks and a series of new works, including "Tracings from the Front," an extended piece exploring the language of conflict stripped and fragmented from its context. The poems in Collective Instant aim towards meanings, hope for meaning, while showing the inevitable absences between understanding and world, between the wild and ordered. 80 Beetles Mark Cunningham 88 pages ISBN: 978-0-9804541-8-5 Otoliths 2008 $10.00 + p&h URL: http://www.lulu.com/content/2392396 "We waved at each other because we were driving the same model and color car. Mark Cunningham said, hey, could you write something on my Beetles. There are 80 of them. So I tried to write something on one but it kept opening its little pincers, its tiny wings. This led to a certain amount of self-examination, from which I emerged stronger, more self-assured. I was then able to more closely examine the varying structure, the very specific ideational atmospherics, & dare I say the aroma philosophique, of each of these beetles. What I discovered is that these beetles are in fact poems. Unusually good ones; & now I dream of an alternate life." ?Rod Smith April to the Power of the Quantity Pythagoras Times Now Bob Grumman 72 pages ISBN: 978-0-9804541-6-1 Otoliths 2008 $24.95 + p&h URL: http://www.lulu.com/content/2266718 "Collected in Bob Grumman's book April to the Power of the Quantity Pythagoras Times Now are almost two decades' worth of mathemaku, a personal genre of his that combines elements of visual poetry, mathematics, and haiku. Always the poet of the topical constraint, Grumman writes mathemaku that restrict themselves to a narrow range of subjects (spring, poetry, language, light) so he can divert all his effort into creating remarkable engines of poetic imagination where language, color, images, and mathematics conjoin to form stunning ineluctable gestalts. Drawing from his early pre-long-division mathemaku and his more recent forays into color and ever-increasing formal complexity, this book brings together a hearty sampling of the best of Grumman's mathemaku, including such masterworks as "Mathemaku for Ezra Pound" and "Seaside Mathemaku." A lifetime in the making, this book is not to be missed." ?Geof Huth In addition, the print editions of Otoliths eight and nine are now also available. Issue eight, part one contains work from Geof Huth, Felino Soriano, Richard Kostelanetz, Louie Crew, Vernon Frazer, Audacia Dangereyes, David-Baptiste Chirot, Jeff Harrison, James Sanders, Thomas Fink & Maya Fink, Paul Siegell, Cecelia Chapman, Caleb Puckett, Sandy McIntosh, Elisa Gabbert & Kathleen Rooney, Gustave Morin, Gregory Vincent St. Thomasino, Bill Drennan, Jill Chan, Paul Hardacre, Bobbi Lurie, J. D. Nelson, Joshua A Ware, Kristine Ong Muslim, John M. Bennett, Martin Edmond, Philip Byron Oakes, Thomas Fink, harry k stammer, Nicholas Manning & Michele Leggott. Issue eight, part two contains work from Reed Altemus, Pradip Datta, Jukka-Pekka Kervinen & Spencer Selby, Laurie Price, Guy Beining, Andrew Topel, Sheila E. Murphy & John M. Bennett, Luigino Solamito & John M. Bennett, John M. Bennett, Eric Burke, Alexander Jorgensen, Spencer Selby, Patrick Gulke, Christopher Major, Cecelia Chapman, Andrew Riley Clark, M?rton Kopp?ny, & John Lowther. Issue nine, part one contains work by Rochelle Ratner, Mark Cunningham, Suzanne Grazyna, Daniel Morris, Andrew Lundwall, Joel Chace, Bill Drennan, Christopher Major, Derek Owens, Steve Timm, Scott MacLeod, Simon Perchik, Philip Byron Oakes, Elizabeth Kate Switaj, Jeff Harrison, Geof Huth, Stu Hatton, Duane Locke, Eileen R. Tabios, Douglas Barbour & Sheila E. Murphy, Michael Farrell, Bobbi Lurie, William Doreski, Esa M?kij?rvi, Paul Siegell, Glenn R. Frantz, Adam Strauss, John M. Bennett, Thomas Lowe Taylor, Marcia Arrieta, Julian Jason Haladyn, Adam Fieled, William Allegrezza, Ernesto Priego, Raymond Farr, Mary Kasimor, Louise Landes Levi, Thomas Fink & Kirsten Kaschock. Issue nine, part two contains work by David-Baptiste Chirot, Angela Genusa, Ed Schenk, Reed Altemus, Robert Gauldie, Joe Balaz, Scott MacLeod & John M. Bennett, Diana Magall?n & Jeff Crouch, Irving Weiss, John M. Bennett, Randy Thurman, John M. Bennett & Luigino Solamito, John M. Bennett & Sheila E. Murphy, John M. Bennett & Sheila E. Murphy & Luigino Solamito, Daniel f Bradley, Andrew Topel & Jim Leftwich & John M. Bennett, Mary Ellen Derwis, harry k stammer, Martin Edmond, Jeff Crouch & Matina L. Stamatakis, & Toni Simon. Mark Young -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.24.1/1463 - Release Date: 5/23/2008 3:36 PM -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080525/d12dd45d/attachment.html From cstroffo at earthlink.net Sun May 25 07:33:01 2008 From: cstroffo at earthlink.net (Chris Stroffolino) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:56 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: One sap and one root In-Reply-To: <8EACD9E9-3715-4997-96EB-6EDF44F7D2B7@ripon.edu> References: <4838BACA.3040709@nut-n-but.net> <8EACD9E9-3715-4997-96EB-6EDF44F7D2B7@ripon.edu> Message-ID: <3CFE3688-34E5-49A2-B222-4FF517E90EFA@earthlink.net> Compared to those other USA male modernists (Eliot, Pound, WCW, I'll even include Frost), Stevens definitely identified more with Whitman (at least when he thought of the 'figure' of the poet)-- in terms of an expansiveness... Yeah, Bloom's argument seemed counter-intuitive to me too, but in his full-book-length study of Stevens he backs it up with enough comparisons of similar passages in W and S On May 24, 2008, at 8:41 PM, David Graham wrote: > I believe the link between Whitman and Stevens is Emerson. > > > ======================================== > David Graham > grahamd@ripon.edu > > Home Page: > http://web.mac.com/drjazz > > Poetry Library: > http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html > ========================================== > > > > > On May 24, 2008, at 8:03 PM, Bob Grumman wrote: > >> >> >> JforJames@aol.com wrote: >>> >>> The Breaking of the Vessels. Chicago: University of Chicago >>> Press, 1982. >>> >>> Years ago I read the essays in this book by Harold Bloom. It >>> sticks out in my mind >>> that in one essay Bloom stretched to make Wallace Stevens a >>> direct heir of Whitman. >>> Talk about anxiety of influence...I can still hear the imperious >>> Stevens harumphing >>> at the lariat of that improbable lineage trying to get around his >>> ample girth. >>> Finnegan >>> >>> >> >> I think it probably impossible not to find some influence of poet >> A on poet B. The line from Whitman to Stevens is horrid faint, >> though. They share the barbaric yawp, but Stevens uses it a lot >> differently than Whitman. They're both bardic. . . . >> >> --Bob >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080525/bc657be9/attachment.html From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sun May 25 11:58:29 2008 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:56 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: One sap and one root In-Reply-To: <8EACD9E9-3715-4997-96EB-6EDF44F7D2B7@ripon.edu> References: <4838BACA.3040709@nut-n-but.net> <8EACD9E9-3715-4997-96EB-6EDF44F7D2B7@ripon.edu> Message-ID: <48398CA5.6090604@nut-n-but.net> David Graham wrote: > I believe the link between Whitman and Stevens is Emerson. ^ I can agree 100% on that, David. Do you retract? Seriously, this just indicates one of our points of difference--I compare poets by their techniques more than by their outlooks, you maybe the opposite, or closer to the opposite than I. --Bob G. From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sun May 25 12:12:52 2008 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:56 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fw: New Books from =?windows-1252?Q?Otoliths=97?= =?windows-1252?Q?Allegrezza=2C_Cunningham=2C_Grumman?= In-Reply-To: <0C9FE784510B4E58AC9557ABC3C3AD6E@AnnyPC> References: <0C9FE784510B4E58AC9557ABC3C3AD6E@AnnyPC> Message-ID: <48399004.3070107@nut-n-but.net> Anny Ballardini wrote: > Congratulations to Bob Grumman! And to Bill Allegrezza / my Editor, > and logically to Mark Cunningham, last because I do not know him. > Thanks, Anny. --Bob G. From grahamd at ripon.edu Sun May 25 12:11:01 2008 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:56 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: One sap and one root In-Reply-To: <48398CA5.6090604@nut-n-but.net> References: <4838BACA.3040709@nut-n-but.net> <8EACD9E9-3715-4997-96EB-6EDF44F7D2B7@ripon.edu> <48398CA5.6090604@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <8048361F-5EAD-4DE6-9401-574744FC3F6B@ripon.edu> No retraction. I think you're quite right about our differences. ======================================== David Graham grahamd@ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.mac.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== On May 25, 2008, at 10:58 AM, Bob Grumman wrote: > > > David Graham wrote: >> I believe the link between Whitman and Stevens is Emerson. > ^ > I can agree 100% on that, David. Do you retract? > > Seriously, this just indicates one of our points of difference--I > compare poets by their techniques more than by their outlooks, you > maybe the opposite, or closer to the opposite than I. > > --Bob G. > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080525/99a709a3/attachment.html From robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com Sun May 25 12:28:49 2008 From: robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com (Robin Hamilton) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:56 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: One sap and one root References: <4838BACA.3040709@nut-n-but.net><8EACD9E9-3715-4997-96EB-6EDF44F7D2B7@ripon.edu> <48398CA5.6090604@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <090d01c8be84$6a44e680$4001a8c0@HP10652193472> > David Graham wrote: >> I believe the link between Whitman and Stevens is Emerson. > ^ > I can agree 100% on that, David. Do you retract? > > Seriously, this just indicates one of our points of difference--I compare > poets by their techniques more than by their outlooks, you maybe the > opposite, or closer to the opposite than I. > > --Bob G. Um ... I'm seriously doubftul on this. Sure, it might be possible to link Stevens back as a Platonist to the Transcendental Movement, but Stevens as a Platonist is coming out of a completely different tradition from the Emerson/Whitman/Thoreau line. If there is a link at all, it would go back to Thomas Taylor, whom both Stevens and the Transcendentalists might (would) have drawn on. Rivers in both. Robin From rog3r.day at gmail.com Sun May 25 12:51:23 2008 From: rog3r.day at gmail.com (Roger Day) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:56 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] my favorite In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: the first one for me. On Sat, May 24, 2008 at 4:40 PM, Anny Ballardini wrote: > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-5JvACzGp8&feature=related > > or > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DdVVmglQfFE&feature=related > > Knockin' on Heaven's Door > > Mama, take this badge off of me > I can't use it anymore. > It's gettin' dark, too dark for me to see > I feel like I'm knockin' on heaven's door. > > Knock, knock, knockin' on heaven's door > Knock, knock, knockin' on heaven's door > Knock, knock, knockin' on heaven's door > Knock, knock, knockin' on heaven's door > > Mama, put my guns in the ground > I can't shoot them anymore. > That long black cloud is comin' down > I feel like I'm knockin' on heaven's door. > > Knock, knock, knockin' on heaven's door > Knock, knock, knockin' on heaven's door > Knock, knock, knockin' on heaven's door > Knock, knock, knockin' on heaven's door > > > ________________________________ > Anny Ballardini > http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ > http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome > http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html > I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing > star! > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- My Stuff: http://www.badstep.net/ "She went out with her paint box, paints the chapel blue She went out with her matches, torched the car-wash too" The Go-Betweens From JforJames at aol.com Sun May 25 13:02:30 2008 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames@aol.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:56 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: One sap and one root Message-ID: Probably there is always 6 (or fewer) degrees of critical separation that can drawn between any two poets. But Stevens is some much more a poet of the mind. Walt a poet of the body and life. Stevens the inner paramour. Whitman the effusive self at large in the world. Stevens the lover of vocabulary because of its strangeness and 'essential gaudiness'. Whitman a lover the words for their wildness and bombast. Stevens affection (or affectation) toward foreign words and phrases. Whitman with an eye and ear for the naked, native expression. Whitman the street-level journalist. Stevens the aloof executive. I could go on. Emerson, despite his early important praise of Whitman, didn't really have abiding faith in Walt's project. Emerson recognized genius; but he was not really able to embrace the manner in which Whitman embodied it. Finnegan In a message dated 5/25/2008 7:33:37 AM Eastern Daylight Time, cstroffo@earthlink.net writes: Compared to those other USA male modernists (Eliot, Pound, WCW, I'll even include Frost), Stevens definitely identified more with Whitman (at least when he thought of the 'figure' of the poet)-- in terms of an expansiveness... Yeah, Bloom's argument seemed counter-intuitive to me too, but in his full-book-length study of Stevens he backs it up with enough comparisons of similar passages in W and S On May 24, 2008, at 8:41 PM, David Graham wrote: I believe the link between Whitman and Stevens is Emerson. **************Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with Tyler Florence" on AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4&?NCID=aolfod00030000000002) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080525/1a6348d6/attachment.html From JforJames at aol.com Sun May 25 13:17:15 2008 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames@aol.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:56 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Between two worlds: Michael Hofmann Message-ID: Metric conversion: Why poet Michael Hofmann stopped 'wreaking destruction' on his family in verse _http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/books/features/metric-convers ion-why-poet-michael-hofmann-stopped-wreaking-destruction-on-his-family-in-ver se-832527.html_ (http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/books/features/metric-conversion-why-poet-michael-hofmann-stopped-wreaking-destruction-on-h is-family-in-verse-832527.html) Michael Hofmann made his name with poems documenting his fraught relationship with his German father. But now, 'fed up with wreaking destruction' in his verse, he's forsaken the muse in favour of the day job By Stephen Knight Sunday, 25 May 2008 Between two worlds: Michael Hofmann, who writes to 'make myself English' ? Jonathan Evans It was almost impossible, 25 years or so ago, to open a journal that published poetry without finding Michael Hofmann's name somewhere on the contents page. His unmistakable poems were everywhere, so it seemed obvious to begin by asking what had changed, now that new work is so rare. "I don't want to add to any EC poetry mountain," was his drollest answer. There are a number of poets who ought to take the same line, but Hofmann ? one of the few outstanding talents to have emerged in the past 50 years of British poetry ? would not be on my list. **************Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with Tyler Florence" on AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4&?NCID=aolfod00030000000002) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080525/342ffeac/attachment.html From david.bircumshaw at ntlworld.com Sun May 25 14:18:16 2008 From: david.bircumshaw at ntlworld.com (David Bircumshaw) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:56 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Between two worlds: Michael Hofmann In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4839AD68.9030202@ntlworld.com> I used to think of his poems as being, although well-written, curiously numbing. His abilities as a translator I do respect. The article has a priceless (unintended?) pun: > "As a poet, you're always going to have to do something else, unless > you have a really large-bore production like Ted Hughes or Les Murray." -- David Bircumshaw Website and A Chide's Alphabet http://homepage.ntlworld.com/david.bircumshaw/ The Animal Subsides http://www.arrowheadpress.co.uk/books/animal.html Leicester Poetry Society: http://www.poetryleicester.co.uk From anny.ballardini at tin.it Sun May 25 15:28:54 2008 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:57 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: One sap and one root In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <86828C0154F14569A25375EE7B477F29@AnnyPC> This is excellent ----- Original Message ----- From: JforJames@aol.com To: new-poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Sunday, May 25, 2008 7:02 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Re: One sap and one root Probably there is always 6 (or fewer) degrees of critical separation that can drawn between any two poets. But Stevens is some much more a poet of the mind. Walt a poet of the body and life. Stevens the inner paramour. Whitman the effusive self at large in the world. Stevens the lover of vocabulary because of its strangeness and 'essential gaudiness'. Whitman a lover the words for their wildness and bombast. Stevens affection (or affectation) toward foreign words and phrases. Whitman with an eye and ear for the naked, native expression. Whitman the street-level journalist. Stevens the aloof executive. I could go on. Emerson, despite his early important praise of Whitman, didn't really have abiding faith in Walt's project. Emerson recognized genius; but he was not really able to embrace the manner in which Whitman embodied it. Finnegan In a message dated 5/25/2008 7:33:37 AM Eastern Daylight Time, cstroffo@earthlink.net writes: Compared to those other USA male modernists (Eliot, Pound, WCW, I'll even include Frost), Stevens definitely identified more with Whitman (at least when he thought of the 'figure' of the poet)-- in terms of an expansiveness... Yeah, Bloom's argument seemed counter-intuitive to me too, but in his full-book-length study of Stevens he backs it up with enough comparisons of similar passages in W and S On May 24, 2008, at 8:41 PM, David Graham wrote: I believe the link between Whitman and Stevens is Emerson. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080525/09667f3f/attachment.html From cervantes.james at gmail.com Mon May 26 10:47:40 2008 From: cervantes.james at gmail.com (James Cervantes) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:57 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] The Salt River Review open for submissions Message-ID: <648208b60805260747j21d45f59g980d77b8ffe1f78a@mail.gmail.com> The Salt River Review is open from June 1st through August 31st for submissions for the Fall, 2008 issue. Guidelines, as well as the current 10th anniversary issues are at http://www.poetserv.org -- James Cervantes ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning http://www.fieralingue.it/documenti/mr_bondo.pdf http://www.poetserv.org/jvc/home/index.html http://home.earthlink.net/~jvcervantes/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/12364573@N08/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080526/1099816c/attachment.html From anny.ballardini at tin.it Mon May 26 15:25:51 2008 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:57 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] M. Cunningham Message-ID: <66BFA4BAD3A14D3CA3EE72361868040F@AnnyPC> >From Starfish Poetry, Current Issue http://starfishpoetry.net/current.htm Mark Cunningham :: Cigarette Beetle Pico della Mirandola was right: one man and one horse can make a Marlboro ad. Without the man, you'd need at least three horses, probably galloping. The drawings in Gabriel Pomerand's Saint Ghetto des Pres, which introduces a new visual language, was written with the newly-introduced ballpoint pen. When I first get up, I'm as tall as I'm going to be and, as the day goes, gravity shrinks me little by little; but in the morning, I'm tall again! :: Hide Beetle Playing video games did not train me to fly robot bombers, but Pac-Man has helped me find parking spots downtown. I can't figure out if they universe is moving from a state of order to a state of disorder, but I know I'm having trouble keeping my sideburns even. A roll of the dice will never abolish the need to crap. We aren't laughing at each other. We aren't laughing together. We're laughing at the same time. :: Snail-eating Ground Beetle I was opposed to her thumbs but not to her toes. The news showed the video of white and black troops firing into the village to prove that the races could work together. I can't forget many things that didn't happen. I keep losing bits of myself: this is called information. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080526/b59ead2f/attachment.html From browning at splitthisrock.org Tue May 27 08:43:44 2008 From: browning at splitthisrock.org (browning) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:57 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Happy Birthday, Bob Dylan In-Reply-To: <060d01c8bde0$3254c780$4001a8c0@HP10652193472> Message-ID: <000601c8bff7$4d43dea0$4201a8c0@SBLAPTOP> Two more: You're Gonna Make Me Lonesome When You Go I've seen love go by my door It's never been this close before Never been so easy or so slow. Been shooting in the dark too long When somethin's not right it's wrong Yer gonna make me lonesome when you go. Dragon clouds so high above I've only known careless love, It's always hit me from below. This time around it's more correct Right on target, so direct, Yer gonna make me lonesome when you go. Purple clover, Queen Anne lace, Crimson hair across your face, You could make me cry if you don't know. Can't remember what I was thinkin' of You might be spoilin' me too much, love, Yer gonna make me lonesome when you go. Flowers on the hillside, bloomin' crazy, Crickets talkin' back and forth in rhyme, Blue river runnin' slow and lazy, I could stay with you forever And never realize the time. Situations have ended sad, Relationships have all been bad. Mine've been like Verlaine's and Rimbaud. But there's no way I can compare All those scenes to this affair, Yer gonna make me lonesome when you go. Yer gonna make me wonder what I'm doin', Stayin' far behind without you. Yer gonna make me wonder what I'm sayin', Yer gonna make me give myself a good talkin' to. I'll look for you in old Honolulu, San Francisco, Ashtabula, Yer gonna have to leave me now, I know. But I'll see you in the sky above, In the tall grass, in the ones I love, Yer gonna make me lonesome when you go. Boots of Spanish Leather Oh, I'm sailin' away my own true love, I'm sailin' away in the morning. Is there something I can send you from across the sea, >From the place that I'll be landing? No, there's nothin' you can send me, my own true love, There's nothin' I wish to be ownin'. Just carry yourself back to me unspoiled, >From across that lonesome ocean. Oh, but I just thought you might want something fine Made of silver or of golden, Either from the mountains of Madrid Or from the coast of Barcelona. Oh, but if I had the stars from the darkest night And the diamonds from the deepest ocean, I'd forsake them all for your sweet kiss, For that's all I'm wishin' to be ownin'. That I might be gone a long time And it's only that I'm askin', Is there something I can send you to remember me by, To make your time more easy passin'. Oh, how can, how can you ask me again, It only brings me sorrow. The same thing I want from you today, I would want again tomorrow. I got a letter on a lonesome day, It was from her ship a-sailin', Saying I don't know when I'll be comin' back again, It depends on how I'm a-feelin'. Well, if you, my love, must think that-a-way, I'm sure your mind is roamin'. I'm sure your heart is not with me, But with the country to where you're goin'. So take heed, take heed of the western wind, Take heed of the stormy weather. And yes, there's something you can send back to me, Spanish boots of Spanish leather. ** Sarah Browning Director Split This Rock Poetry Festival c/o Institute for Policy Studies 1112 16th Street, NW, Suite 600 Washington, DC 20036 browning@splitthisrock.org www.splitthisrock.org 202-787-5210 _____ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080527/5e8595ab/attachment.html From amyhappens at yahoo.com Tue May 27 13:37:00 2008 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:57 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Rock the Stain Bar with Stein, Marks, Edmiston, Klassnik, and Peterson In-Reply-To: <20080527101953.3c956dc8b8606edbbbe6c3541f63d2d7.8207e3ebf0.wbe@email.secureserver.net> Message-ID: <716840.60449.qm@web83315.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> The Stain of Poetry: A Reading Series Friday, May 30, 2008 (7:00 PM) May 30th @ 7 p.m. - Stain Bar - Williamsburg, Brooklyn Event Details: (http://upcoming.yahoo.com/event/686415/?invitation=c3ab2cdd66) ** Stein, Marks, Edmiston, Klassnik, and Peterson ** Leigh Stein is the author of many chapbooks, including How to Mend a Broken Heart with Vengeance (Dancing Girl Press, June '08). Other work has appeared, or is forthcoming, in Bat City Review, h-ngm-n, Diagram, No Tell Motel, and MiPOesias. Originally from Chicago and briefly in Albuquerque, she now lives in Brooklyn and works for a comic book publisher. Justin Marks' latest chapbook is [Summer insular] (Horse Less Press, 2007). His poems have recently appeared in Cannibal, Soft Targets, Tarpaulin Sky and the Bedside Guide to No Tell Motel ? Second Floor, and are forthcoming in Handsome, the New York Quarterly and Wildlife Poetry Magazine. He is the founder and Editor of Kitchen Press Chapbooks and lives in New York City. Will Edmiston's poems have appeared in The Tiny, Mipo and Lungfull!. Most recently he did a book collaboration entitled "Greetings & Salutations" with a Parsons Communication Design class. Rauan (Ron) Klassnik was born in Johannesburg, South Africa. After moving to Dallas and then dropping out of college he traded sports and gaming cards, beanie babies, pogs and memorabilia. He now spends most of his time down in Mexico with his wife Edith where, besides writing, he plays around with the family birds and dogs. His poems have appeared in many print and on-line journals including The Mississippi Review, The North American Review, No Tell Motel, MiPoesias, Sentence, Handsome, Pilot Poetry, Sleepingfish and others. His debut book of poems, "Holy Land" released April 1st from Black Ocean Press. Tim Peterson is the author of SINCE I MOVED IN, which received the Gil Ott Award from Chax Press. Tim lives in Brooklyn, edits EOAGH: A Journal of the Arts, and curates a portion of the Segue Reading Series in New York. Photo by Stacy Szymaszek. ~~~~ stain 766 grand street brooklyn, ny 11211 (L train to Grand Street, 1 block west) 718/387-7840 open daily @ 5 p.m. -- Hope you can make it! Amy King _______ Recent http://www.tarpaulinsky.com/Reviews/kiss-me.html http://cutbankpoetry.blogspot.com/2008/04/im-man-who-loves-you-by-amy-king.html Alias http://www.amyking.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080527/3df6b512/attachment.html From grahamd at ripon.edu Wed May 28 19:57:44 2008 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:57 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] R.I.P. George Garrett Message-ID: <9D06E634-E7A3-4C9E-A2F3-E1D9302B9331@ripon.edu> Group Portrait Here I am again, smiling broadly, one face only among a row of famous faces, the faces of my elders and betters, now lost and gone to glory or surely going that way soon. What on earth are we all smiling about? I put on my glasses and turn on the lamp to watch myself spring back to life among the grinning dead. Must we pose there forever together in the faceless dark? Or will we too rise again in a sudden gift of light smiling? --George Garrett. Per Contra Poetry (Fall 2006). ======================================== David Graham grahamd@ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.mac.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080528/2c982d97/attachment.html From Rsgwynn1 at cs.com Wed May 28 20:04:09 2008 From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com (Rsgwynn1@cs.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:57 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] R.I.P. George Garrett Message-ID: George Garrett has died. He was a friend of many years standing and was responsible for my first book's being published. He was a fine poet and an even better novelist; the last of his Elizabethan/Jacobean trilogy, Entered from the Sun, is a book that lingers in my memory. I only wish that someone, a contemporary Boswell, had followed George around for a couple of years to record his marvelous stories about the writers he knew. Ave atque vale. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080528/2086e8a8/attachment.html From Edward.Byrne at valpo.edu Wed May 28 20:23:39 2008 From: Edward.Byrne at valpo.edu (Edward Byrne) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:57 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] R.I.P. George Garrett In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <483DB13B.7112.006E.0@valpo.edu> GEORGE GARRETT'S GENEROSITY When I learned this week that George Garrett had died Sunday night at the age of 78 after an extended battle with bladder cancer, I was saddened, as many others were, at the loss of this extraordinary writer, someone whose work has meant much to a few generations of readers . . .. http://edwardbyrne.blogspot.com/2008/05/george-garretts-generosity.html -------------------------------------------------- Edward Byrne Department of English 322 Huegli Hall Valparaiso University Valparaiso, IN 46383-6493 E-mail: edward.byrne@valpo.edu Home Page: http://www.valpo.edu/home/faculty/ebyrne/homepage/ Blog: http://edwardbyrne.blogspot.com/ Editor, Valparaiso Poetry Review E-mail: vpr@valpo.edu VPR Web Page: http://www.valpo.edu/english/vpr/ Office Phone: (219) 464-5278 Fax: (219) 464-5511 -------------------------------------------------- >>> 05/28/08 7:04 PM >>> George Garrett has died. He was a friend of many years standing and was responsible for my first book's being published. He was a fine poet and an even better novelist; the last of his Elizabethan/Jacobean trilogy, Entered from the Sun, is a book that lingers in my memory. I only wish that someone, a contemporary Boswell, had followed George around for a couple of years to record his marvelous stories about the writers he knew. Ave atque vale. From elemenope_productions at hotmail.com Thu May 29 14:59:03 2008 From: elemenope_productions at hotmail.com (R Dillon) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:57 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] George Garrett In-Reply-To: <200805291600.m4TG04Lr015966@wiz.cath.vt.edu> References: <200805291600.m4TG04Lr015966@wiz.cath.vt.edu> Message-ID: George Garrett was the most positive person I have ever encountered. Smiling, his eyes filled with light as he told his tales. R.E. Dillon _________________________________________________________________ Keep your kids safer online with Windows Live Family Safety. http://www.windowslive.com/family_safety/overview.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_Refresh_family_safety_052008 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080529/61b0d522/attachment.html From amyhappens at yahoo.com Thu May 29 17:49:36 2008 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:57 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Tomorrow Night -- The Stain of Poetry In-Reply-To: <648208b60805260747j21d45f59g980d77b8ffe1f78a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <286568.49085.qm@web83302.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> The Stain of Poetry: A Reading Series Friday, May 30, 2008 (7:00 PM) May 30th @ 7 p.m. - Stain Bar - Williamsburg, Brooklyn Event Details: (http://thestainofpoetry.wordpress.com/) ** Stein, Marks, Edmiston, Klassnik, and Peterson ** Leigh Stein is the author of many chapbooks, including How to Mend a Broken Heart with Vengeance (Dancing Girl Press, June '08). Other work has appeared, or is forthcoming, in Bat City Review, h-ngm-n, Diagram, No Tell Motel, and MiPOesias. Originally from Chicago and briefly in Albuquerque, she now lives in Brooklyn and works for a comic book publisher. Justin Marks' latest chapbook is [Summer insular] (Horse Less Press, 2007). His poems have recently appeared in Cannibal, Soft Targets, Tarpaulin Sky and the Bedside Guide to No Tell Motel ??? Second Floor, and are forthcoming in Handsome, the New York Quarterly and Wildlife Poetry Magazine. He is the founder and Editor of Kitchen Press Chapbooks and lives in New York City. Will Edmiston's poems have appeared in The Tiny, Mipo and Lungfull!. Most recently he did a book collaboration entitled "Greetings & Salutations" with a Parsons Communication Design class. Rauan (Ron) Klassnik was born in Johannesburg, South Africa. After moving to Dallas and then dropping out of college he traded sports and gaming cards, beanie babies, pogs and memorabilia. He now spends most of his time down in Mexico with his wife Edith where, besides writing, he plays around with the family birds and dogs. His poems have appeared in many print and on-line journals including The Mississippi Review, The North American Review, No Tell Motel, MiPoesias, Sentence, Handsome, Pilot Poetry, Sleepingfish and others. His debut book of poems, "Holy Land" released April 1st from Black Ocean Press. Tim Peterson is the author of SINCE I MOVED IN, which received the Gil Ott Award from Chax Press. Tim lives in Brooklyn, edits EOAGH: A Journal of the Arts, and curates a portion of the Segue Reading Series in New York. Photo by Stacy Szymaszek. ~~~~ stain 766 grand street brooklyn, ny 11211 (L train to Grand Street, 1 block west) 718/387-7840 open daily @ 5 p.m. -- Hope you can make it! Amy King Host _______ Recent http://www.tarpaulinsky.com/Reviews/kiss-me.html http://cutbankpoetry.blogspot.com/2008/04/im-man-who-loves-you-by-amy-king.html Alias http://www.amyking.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080529/44977838/attachment.html From halvard at earthlink.net Thu May 29 19:16:12 2008 From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:57 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Tomorrow Night -- The Stain of Poetry In-Reply-To: <286568.49085.qm@web83302.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: <286568.49085.qm@web83302.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <508D9D47-1F1E-41C2-81AD-0DAFEC00AFEA@earthlink.net> And coming soon to a venue near you -- The Stalin of Poetry. (Nominations still open.) "Between the manifold splendors of anger, I watch a door slam like the corsage of a flower or the erasers of schoolchildren." --Andre Breton Halvard Johnson ================ halvard@earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html From amyhappens at yahoo.com Thu May 29 20:31:18 2008 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:57 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Tomorrow Night -- The Stain of Poetry In-Reply-To: <508D9D47-1F1E-41C2-81AD-0DAFEC00AFEA@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <272906.11555.qm@web83303.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Yikes! Do I make that list? Who else? Amy Halvard Johnson wrote: And coming soon to a venue near you -- The Stalin of Poetry. (Nominations still open.) "Between the manifold splendors of anger, I watch a door slam like the corsage of a flower or the erasers of schoolchildren." --Andre Breton Halvard Johnson ================ halvard@earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______ Recent http://www.tarpaulinsky.com/Reviews/kiss-me.html http://cutbankpoetry.blogspot.com/2008/04/im-man-who-loves-you-by-amy-king.html Alias http://www.amyking.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080529/5d47c044/attachment.html From Rsgwynn1 at cs.com Thu May 29 22:38:27 2008 From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com (Rsgwynn1@cs.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:57 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Tomorrow Night -- The Stain of Poetry Message-ID: In a message dated 5/29/2008 6:16:45 PM Central Daylight Time, halvard@earthlink.net writes: > > > And coming soon to a venue near you -- The Stalin of Poetry. > > (Nominations still open.) > > "Between the manifold splendors of anger, I > watch a door slam like the corsage of a flower > or the erasers of schoolchildren." > --Andre Breton > I am getting more dyslexic with age. I read this title as "The Stain of Poetry." There is only one Stalin of poetry and his name is Bly. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080529/7d0927c0/attachment.html From amyhappens at yahoo.com Fri May 30 13:35:51 2008 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:58 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: Paula Gunn Allen Message-ID: <70468.46540.qm@web83310.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> >From Gabrielle Welford [on Poetics listserv]: dear poetics folks, my dear friend paula gunn allen, laguna pueblo scholar, poet, novelist, writer of the incomparable _sacred hoop_, journeyed on yesterday evening. she was 68. she helped so many people come to a better understanding of native ways of thinking in the time she was teaching--always with great humor and a wicked twinkle. many many of us will miss her hugely. travel on, paula! blessings, gabe _______ Recent http://www.tarpaulinsky.com/Reviews/kiss-me.html http://cutbankpoetry.blogspot.com/2008/04/im-man-who-loves-you-by-amy-king.html Alias http://www.amyking.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080530/7c123f4f/attachment.html From barry.spacks at verizon.net Fri May 30 14:51:49 2008 From: barry.spacks at verizon.net (Barry Spacks) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:58 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: FOUND POEM In-Reply-To: <200805291600.m4TG04Lq015966@wiz.cath.vt.edu> References: <200805291600.m4TG04Lq015966@wiz.cath.vt.edu> Message-ID: <3BD5EC00-427B-48DC-BF95-DB0CFF8524CB@verizon.net> For a (grim) laugh. A LOCAL "FOUND POEM" I'D ENTITLE "AMERICA'S JOYOUS FUTURE" ? Don't know if the photo will carry, so here are the words as posted on the Parish Hall's announcement board: MON Alcoholics Anonymous TUES Abused Spouses WED Eating Disorders THU Say No to Drugs FRI Teen Suicide Watch SAT Soup Kitchen SUNDAY SERMON 9 A.M. "AMERICA'S JOYOUS FUTURE" -------------- next part -------------- Skipped content of type multipart/related From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Fri May 30 19:24:22 2008 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:58 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Tomorrow Night -- The Stain of Poetry In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <48408CA6.8050100@nut-n-but.net> >> >> And coming soon to a venue near you -- The Stalin of Poetry. >> >> (Nominations still open.) >> >> "Between the manifold splendors of anger, I >> watch a door slam like the corsage of a flower >> or the erasers of schoolchildren." >> --Andre Breton > > I am getting more dyslexic with age. I read this title as "The Stain > of Poetry." There is only one Stalin of poetry and his name is Bly. I dunno about that, but it made me wonder who the most dictatorial poet of any reputation is. I mean poet who believes all poets should adhere to some rigid way of writing poetry. Only thought so far is Yvor Winters. Not that I know him well enough to fairly accuse him. I only know that from what little I know of him and his criticism (some but not much of which I've read), he MAY be the most dictatorial poet I know of. --Bob G. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080530/c8cca30f/attachment.html From anny.ballardini at tin.it Fri May 30 19:24:39 2008 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:58 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Toot! Message-ID: <1D5DCC7283B54A24B28B2C62B0486014@AnnyPC> Reading at Brown Library I would like to thank Henry Gould and Brown University Library, Providence, RI, Center for Digital Initiatives, for the present recording, I am pasting Henry Gould's message: "A video of the April 23rd reading at Brown, with Anny Ballardini & Peter S. Thompson, is now on the web. You can view it here. It's about 90 min. long. I open with a Shakespeare sonnet, in honor of his birthday (and because "Let me not to the meeting of true minds" made me think of the art of translation). " -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080531/244b1933/attachment.html From amyhappens at yahoo.com Fri May 30 23:22:22 2008 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:58 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Tomorrow Night -- The Stain of Poetry In-Reply-To: <48408CA6.8050100@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <76531.44565.qm@web83315.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> It originally was The Stain of Poetry -- http://thestainofpoetry.wordpress.com/ Bob Grumman wrote: And coming soon to a venue near you -- The Stalin of Poetry. (Nominations still open.) "Between the manifold splendors of anger, I watch a door slam like the corsage of a flower or the erasers of schoolchildren." --Andre Breton I am getting more dyslexic with age. I read this title as "The Stain of Poetry." There is only one Stalin of poetry and his name is Bly. _______ Recent http://www.tarpaulinsky.com/Reviews/kiss-me.html http://cutbankpoetry.blogspot.com/2008/04/im-man-who-loves-you-by-amy-king.html Alias http://www.amyking.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080530/316e8398/attachment.html From anny.ballardini at tin.it Sat May 31 01:53:38 2008 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:58 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: FOUND POEM In-Reply-To: <3BD5EC00-427B-48DC-BF95-DB0CFF8524CB@verizon.net> References: <200805291600.m4TG04Lq015966@wiz.cath.vt.edu> <3BD5EC00-427B-48DC-BF95-DB0CFF8524CB@verizon.net> Message-ID: Skipped content of type multipart/alternative-------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/jpeg Size: 46142 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080531/79d1da22/attachment.jpe From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sat May 31 08:22:50 2008 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:58 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Toot! In-Reply-To: <1D5DCC7283B54A24B28B2C62B0486014@AnnyPC> References: <1D5DCC7283B54A24B28B2C62B0486014@AnnyPC> Message-ID: <4841431A.3020904@nut-n-but.net> Good job, Anny--and deft selection of a quotation! --Bob Anny Ballardini wrote: > > > Reading at Brown Library > > I would like to thank Henry Gould and Brown University Library, > Providence, RI, Center for Digital Initiatives, for the present > recording, I am pasting Henry Gould's message: > > "A video of the April 23rd reading at Brown, with Anny Ballardini & > Peter S. Thompson, is now on the web. You can view it here > . > > It's about 90 min. long. I open with a Shakespeare sonnet, in honor of > his birthday (and because "Let me not to the meeting of true minds" > made me think of the art of translation). " > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Anny Ballardini > http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ > http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome > http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html > I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a > dancing star! > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080531/8cf67a26/attachment.html From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sat May 31 08:21:15 2008 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:58 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: FOUND POEM In-Reply-To: <3BD5EC00-427B-48DC-BF95-DB0CFF8524CB@verizon.net> References: <200805291600.m4TG04Lq015966@wiz.cath.vt.edu> <3BD5EC00-427B-48DC-BF95-DB0CFF8524CB@verizon.net> Message-ID: <484142BB.2080600@nut-n-but.net> Barry Spacks wrote: > > For a (grim) laugh. > > A LOCAL "FOUND POEM" I'D ENTITLE "AMERICA'S JOYOUS FUTURE" > > > > Don't know if the photo will carry, so here are the words as > posted on the Parish Hall's announcement board: > > MON Alcoholics Anonymous > > TUES Abused Spouses > > WED Eating Disorders > > THU Say No to Drugs > > FRI Teen Suicide Watch > > SAT Soup Kitchen > > SUNDAY SERMON > 9 A.M. > "AMERICA'S JOYOUS > FUTURE" > > Very funny, Barry. Do you mind its quotation in blogs? --Bob G. -------------- next part -------------- Skipped content of type multipart/related From jforjames at aol.com Sat May 31 07:58:48 2008 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames@aol.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:58 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Tomorrow Night -- The Stain of Poetry In-Reply-To: <48408CA6.8050100@nut-n-but.net> References: <48408CA6.8050100@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <8CA912CD1A9130A-1724-5EF9@webmail-stg-d05.sysops.aol.com> Another petty dictator was Andre Breton whose name sits above your query. He tried to make 'rules' for Surrealists and attempted to enforce fealty to his notions of the practice. Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: Bob Grumman Sent: Fri, 30 May 2008 7:24 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Tomorrow Night -- The Stain of Poetry And coming soon to a venue near you -- The Stalin of Poetry. (Nominations still open.) "Between the manifold splendors of anger, I ? watch a door slam like the corsage of a flower ? or the erasers of schoolchildren." ??????? --Andre Breton I am getting more dyslexic with age.? I read this title as "The Stain of Poetry."? There is only one Stalin of poetry and his name is Bly. I dunno about that, but it made me wonder who the most dictatorial poet of any reputation is.? I mean poet who believes all poets should adhere to some rigid way of writing poetry.? Only thought so far is Yvor Winters.? Not that I know him well enough to fairly accuse him.? I only know that from what little I know of him and his criticism (some but not much of which I've read), he MAY be the most dictatorial poet I know of. --Bob G. _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080531/7fae644c/attachment.html From anny.ballardini at tin.it Sat May 31 09:28:43 2008 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:58 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Toot! In-Reply-To: <4841431A.3020904@nut-n-but.net> References: <1D5DCC7283B54A24B28B2C62B0486014@AnnyPC> <4841431A.3020904@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <40208ADBC8F243BF9368C36A1B9A3005@AnnyPC> Thank you! ----- Original Message ----- From: Bob Grumman To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views Sent: Saturday, May 31, 2008 2:22 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Toot! Good job, Anny--and deft selection of a quotation! --Bob Anny Ballardini wrote: Reading at Brown Library I would like to thank Henry Gould and Brown University Library, Providence, RI, Center for Digital Initiatives, for the present recording, I am pasting Henry Gould's message: "A video of the April 23rd reading at Brown, with Anny Ballardini & Peter S. Thompson, is now on the web. You can view it here. It's about 90 min. long. I open with a Shakespeare sonnet, in honor of his birthday (and because "Let me not to the meeting of true minds" made me think of the art of translation). " -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080531/15195b0d/attachment.html From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sat May 31 11:09:59 2008 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:59 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Tomorrow Night -- The Stain of Poetry In-Reply-To: <8CA912CD1A9130A-1724-5EF9@webmail-stg-d05.sysops.aol.com> References: <48408CA6.8050100@nut-n-but.net> <8CA912CD1A9130A-1724-5EF9@webmail-stg-d05.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <48416A47.9080900@nut-n-but.net> jforjames@aol.com wrote: > Another petty dictator was Andre Breton whose name sits above your > query. He tried to make 'rules' for Surrealists and attempted to > enforce fealty to his notions of the practice. > Finnegan Did he want everyone to be a surrealist, too? My impression of Winters is that he believed every poet should abide by his rules. --Bob > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Bob Grumman > Sent: Fri, 30 May 2008 7:24 pm > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Tomorrow Night -- The Stain of Poetry > > >>> >>> And coming soon to a venue near you -- The Stalin of Poetry. >>> >>> (Nominations still open.) >>> >>> "Between the manifold splendors of anger, I >>> watch a door slam like the corsage of a flower >>> or the erasers of schoolchildren." >>> --Andre Breton >> >> I am getting more dyslexic with age. I read this title as "The Stain >> of Poetry." There is only one Stalin of poetry and his name is Bly. > I dunno about that, but it made me wonder who the most dictatorial > poet of any reputation is. I mean poet who believes all poets should > adhere to some rigid way of writing poetry. Only thought so far is > Yvor Winters. Not that I know him well enough to fairly accuse him. > I only know that from what little I know of him and his criticism > (some but not much of which I've read), he MAY be the most dictatorial > poet I know of. > > --Bob G. > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Stay informed, get connected and more with AOL on your phone > . > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080531/ef2a7449/attachment.html From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sat May 31 12:06:31 2008 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:59 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] [Fwd: ira lightman on Radio 3's The Verb] Message-ID: <48417787.6040607@nut-n-but.net> Ira Lightman is on Radio 3's The Verb, with a new poem celebrating the 400th anniversary of John Milton's birth, in discussion with Ian McMillan, Vikram Seth, Sue Townshend and Paul Batchelor, for one week only at http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio3/theverb/pip/f9622/ Ira spent the week blindfolded, trying to write Miltonic verse, dense with classical and biblical allusion and formal skill, which Milton himself wrote after he'd gone blind. From Opus40-01 at opus40.org Sat May 31 11:41:01 2008 From: Opus40-01 at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:59 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fried Beauty Message-ID: <4841718D.8010203@opus40.org> A winner by Sam Gwynn in Ted Kooser's column -- http://www.americanlifeinpoetry.org/ -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ The moral is this: in American verse, The better you are, the pay is worse. --Corey Ford From grahamd at ripon.edu Sat May 31 12:02:48 2008 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:59 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Fried Beauty In-Reply-To: <4841718D.8010203@opus40.org> References: <4841718D.8010203@opus40.org> Message-ID: Yes, thanks for noting this, Tad. A wonderful piece, Sam. With George Garrett's passing, I was thinking over the past week of the lovely magazine he & Brendan Galvin started in the late 1970s-- *Poultry: A Magazine of Voice*--which specialized in parodies. It had a typically short run, but while it lasted it was great fun. One of my very first journal publications, in fact--so though I never knew Garrett, I can be added to the lengthy list of poets who felt his generous touch. As I recall, I parodied Charles Wright, Seamus Heaney, and Philip Levine. Plus I remember doing a fake symposium on Norman Dubie, in which I parodied critics like Bloom, Howard, and Bly. My own Philip Levine parody from *Poultry* is up here: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/DGWritings/They%20Feed%20They%20Face.html Let's have more parodies posted here, shall we? ======================================== David Graham grahamd@ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.mac.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== On May 31, 2008, at 10:41 AM, TheOldMole wrote: > A winner by Sam Gwynn in Ted Kooser's column -- http:// > www.americanlifeinpoetry.org/ > > -- > Tad Richards -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080531/9a44a48f/attachment.html From Rsgwynn1 at cs.com Sat May 31 12:25:23 2008 From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com (Rsgwynn1@cs.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:59 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Fried Beauty Message-ID: In a message dated 5/31/2008 11:03:25 AM Central Daylight Time, grahamd@ripon.edu writes: > > Yes, thanks for noting this, Tad. A wonderful piece, Sam. > > With George Garrett's passing, I was thinking over the past week of the > lovely magazine he &Brendan Galvin started in the late 1970s--*Poultry: A > Magazine of Voice*--which specialized in parodies. It had a typically short run, > but while it lasted it was great fun. > > > One of my very first journal publications, in fact--so though I never knew > Garrett, I can be added to the lengthy list of poets who felt his generous > touch. As I recall, I parodied Charles Wright, Seamus Heaney, and Philip > Levine. Plus I remember doing a fake symposium on Norman Dubie, in which I > parodied critics like Bloom, Howard, and Bly. > Thanks, all. Somewhere I have the run of Poultry, one of which includes a parody of Dickey's "Falling." It's about a woman who gets her thumb caught in a bowling ball and slides down the alley to her demise. "Ah, strike!" -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080531/101e8196/attachment.html From barry.spacks at verizon.net Sat May 31 12:39:04 2008 From: barry.spacks at verizon.net (Barry Spacks) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:59 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Schedule at the Parish In-Reply-To: <200805311418.m4VEI8Lq021576@wiz.cath.vt.edu> References: <200805311418.m4VEI8Lq021576@wiz.cath.vt.edu> Message-ID: <7E6EE0C3-05A0-42D4-BB23-F17EAA8FFDF9@verizon.net> On May 31, 2008, at 7:18 AM, Bob Grummon wrote: > Very funny, Barry. Do you mind its quotation in blogs? > glad to spread it around -- will send you the photo of the announcement board off channel. B. From barry.spacks at verizon.net Sat May 31 12:48:50 2008 From: barry.spacks at verizon.net (Barry Spacks) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:59 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Garrett In-Reply-To: <200805311418.m4VEI8Lq021576@wiz.cath.vt.edu> References: <200805311418.m4VEI8Lq021576@wiz.cath.vt.edu> Message-ID: <68E1565E-A48E-4A53-A3D1-1904C3B6BFA0@verizon.net> On May 31, 2008, at 7:18 AM, David Graham wrote: I can be added to the lengthy list of poets who felt his generous touch. I'm another. Encouraging to have such broad testimony to this talented, concerned guy's legacy of kindness. Barry > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080531/de0404ef/attachment.html From Opus40-01 at opus40.org Sat May 31 13:56:15 2008 From: Opus40-01 at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:59 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Fried Beauty In-Reply-To: References: <4841718D.8010203@opus40.org> Message-ID: <4841913F.5080105@opus40.org> David -- do you still have the symposium? Could you post it here? David Graham wrote: > Yes, thanks for noting this, Tad. A wonderful piece, Sam. > > With George Garrett's passing, I was thinking over the past week of > the lovely magazine he & Brendan Galvin started in the late > 1970s--*Poultry: A Magazine of Voice*--which specialized in parodies. > It had a typically short run, but while it lasted it was great fun. > > One of my very first journal publications, in fact--so though I never > knew Garrett, I can be added to the lengthy list of poets who felt his > generous touch. As I recall, I parodied Charles Wright, Seamus > Heaney, and Philip Levine. Plus I remember doing a fake symposium on > Norman Dubie, in which I parodied critics like Bloom, Howard, and Bly. > > My own Philip Levine parody from *Poultry* is up here: > > http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/DGWritings/They%20Feed%20They%20Face.html > > Let's have more parodies posted here, shall we? > > > > > > ======================================== > David Graham > grahamd@ripon.edu > > Home Page: > http://web.mac.com/drjazz > > Poetry Library: > http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html > ========================================== > > > > > On May 31, 2008, at 10:41 AM, TheOldMole wrote: > >> A winner by Sam Gwynn in Ted Kooser's column -- >> http://www.americanlifeinpoetry.org/ >> >> -- >> Tad Richards > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ The moral is this: in American verse, The better you are, the pay is worse. --Corey Ford From grahamd at ripon.edu Sat May 31 15:32:28 2008 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:59 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Dubious In-Reply-To: <4841913F.5080105@opus40.org> References: <4841718D.8010203@opus40.org> <4841913F.5080105@opus40.org> Message-ID: <15160819-2738-45E4-BD80-20387A5BDFD2@ripon.edu> Tad, thanks for asking. A dive into my files, and lo! the Dubie Symposium turned up. It's up on my web site now: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/DGWritings/Dubie.html Interestingly, I think my parody of Dubie's poetry may have dated a bit; but I don't believe the parodies of Bly, Bloom et al. have. ======================================== David Graham grahamd@ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.mac.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== On May 31, 2008, at 12:56 PM, TheOldMole wrote: > David -- do you still have the symposium? Could you post it here? > > David Graham wrote: >> Yes, thanks for noting this, Tad. A wonderful piece, Sam. >> >> With George Garrett's passing, I was thinking over the past week >> of the lovely magazine he & Brendan Galvin started in the late >> 1970s--*Poultry: A Magazine of Voice*--which specialized in >> parodies. It had a typically short run, but while it lasted it >> was great fun. >> >> One of my very first journal publications, in fact--so though I >> never knew Garrett, I can be added to the lengthy list of poets >> who felt his generous touch. As I recall, I parodied Charles >> Wright, Seamus Heaney, and Philip Levine. Plus I remember doing a >> fake symposium on Norman Dubie, in which I parodied critics like >> Bloom, Howard, and Bly. >> My own Philip Levine parody from *Poultry* is up here: >> >> http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/DGWritings/They%20Feed%20They% >> 20Face.html >> >> Let's have more parodies posted here, shall we? >> >> >> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080531/cf5af541/attachment.html From Opus40-01 at opus40.org Sat May 31 15:55:16 2008 From: Opus40-01 at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:59 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Dubious In-Reply-To: <15160819-2738-45E4-BD80-20387A5BDFD2@ripon.edu> References: <4841718D.8010203@opus40.org> <4841913F.5080105@opus40.org> <15160819-2738-45E4-BD80-20387A5BDFD2@ripon.edu> Message-ID: <4841AD24.4060402@opus40.org> This is wonderful. David Graham wrote: > Tad, thanks for asking. A dive into my files, and lo! the Dubie > Symposium turned up. > > It's up on my web site now: > > http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/DGWritings/Dubie.html > > Interestingly, I think my parody of Dubie's poetry may have dated a > bit; but I don't believe the parodies of Bly, Bloom et al. have. > > > ======================================== > David Graham > grahamd@ripon.edu > > Home Page: > http://web.mac.com/drjazz > > Poetry Library: > http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html > ========================================== > > > > > On May 31, 2008, at 12:56 PM, TheOldMole wrote: > >> David -- do you still have the symposium? Could you post it here? >> >> David Graham wrote: >>> Yes, thanks for noting this, Tad. A wonderful piece, Sam. >>> >>> With George Garrett's passing, I was thinking over the past week of >>> the lovely magazine he & Brendan Galvin started in the late >>> 1970s--*Poultry: A Magazine of Voice*--which specialized in >>> parodies. It had a typically short run, but while it lasted it was >>> great fun. >>> >>> One of my very first journal publications, in fact--so though I >>> never knew Garrett, I can be added to the lengthy list of poets who >>> felt his generous touch. As I recall, I parodied Charles Wright, >>> Seamus Heaney, and Philip Levine. Plus I remember doing a fake >>> symposium on Norman Dubie, in which I parodied critics like Bloom, >>> Howard, and Bly. >>> My own Philip Levine parody from *Poultry* is up here: >>> >>> http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/DGWritings/They%20Feed%20They%20Face.html >>> >>> Let's have more parodies posted here, shall we? >>> >>> >>> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ The moral is this: in American verse, The better you are, the pay is worse. --Corey Ford From cervantes.james at gmail.com Sat May 31 15:59:21 2008 From: cervantes.james at gmail.com (James Cervantes) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:59 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Dubious In-Reply-To: <15160819-2738-45E4-BD80-20387A5BDFD2@ripon.edu> References: <4841718D.8010203@opus40.org> <4841913F.5080105@opus40.org> <15160819-2738-45E4-BD80-20387A5BDFD2@ripon.edu> Message-ID: <648208b60805311259u43ef1ee1s569b810e7b112f58@mail.gmail.com> I'd never read this, David! Thanks for the droll humor and accurateness of detail down to the dribble! Norman was, by the way, my thesis advisor at Iowa! - Jim! On Sat, May 31, 2008 at 2:32 PM, David Graham wrote: > Tad, thanks for asking. A dive into my files, and lo! the Dubie Symposium > turned up. > It's up on my web site now: > > http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/DGWritings/Dubie.html > > Interestingly, I think my parody of Dubie's poetry may have dated a bit; > but I don't believe the parodies of Bly, Bloom et al. have. > > > ======================================== > David Graham > grahamd@ripon.edu > > Home Page: > http://web.mac.com/drjazz > > Poetry Library: > http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html > ========================================== > > > > > On May 31, 2008, at 12:56 PM, TheOldMole wrote: > > David -- do you still have the symposium? Could you post it here? > > David Graham wrote: > > Yes, thanks for noting this, Tad. A wonderful piece, Sam. > > With George Garrett's passing, I was thinking over the past week of the > lovely magazine he & Brendan Galvin started in the late 1970s--*Poultry: A > Magazine of Voice*--which specialized in parodies. It had a typically > short run, but while it lasted it was great fun. > > One of my very first journal publications, in fact--so though I never knew > Garrett, I can be added to the lengthy list of poets who felt his generous > touch. As I recall, I parodied Charles Wright, Seamus Heaney, and Philip > Levine. Plus I remember doing a fake symposium on Norman Dubie, in which > I parodied critics like Bloom, Howard, and Bly. > My own Philip Levine parody from *Poultry* is up here: > > http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/DGWritings/They%20Feed%20They%20Face.html > > Let's have more parodies posted here, shall we? > > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080531/4d7887de/attachment.html From Rsgwynn1 at cs.com Sat May 31 16:07:10 2008 From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com (Rsgwynn1@cs.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:59 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Dubious Message-ID: Absolutely brilliant. I'm trying to find my version of X. J. Kennedy's "Little Elegy," as rewritten by Philip Levine. Meanwhile, here's one: >From Poems by Sundry Hands: Faithfully Rendered into English Verse Franz Wright: Happy Oblivion Translated from the American Awhile it circles, I suppose, Until at last, not having found A thing of green, it finally knows What goes around comes ?round. The holy dove of tongues aflame Released the birthday cake, the tossed And vacant sheets, the pilot's name In dopamine clouds lost. Closed eyes and lips that hover on The verge of speech, the final breath, As countless hours are also known Before and after death. Link to the original: http://www.cortlandreview.com/issue/32/wright.html -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080531/3f0227d3/attachment.html From Rsgwynn1 at cs.com Sat May 31 16:08:34 2008 From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com (Rsgwynn1@cs.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:59 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Dubious Message-ID: In a message dated 5/31/2008 2:59:39 PM Central Daylight Time, cervantes.james@gmail.com writes: > > I'd never read this, David! Thanks for the droll humor and accurateness of > detail down to the dribble! Norman was, by the way, my thesis advisor at > Iowa! > > - Jim! > Jim, I assume this means you're using the past perfect tense here rather than the past conditional. Sam -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080531/cee0b5d3/attachment.html From Opus40-01 at opus40.org Sat May 31 16:25:11 2008 From: Opus40-01 at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:14:59 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Dubious In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4841B427.1090806@opus40.org> Allen Ginsberg joins the Monkees: I?M WITH YOU ON THE LAST TRAIN TO ROCKLAND Take the last train to Rockland, And I?ll meet you in the lobby. You?ll be in the soup of time so don?t forget to bring kohlrabi, oh, no, no, no! Oh, no, no, no! ?cause the angelheaded hipsters left for balls and endless cock We?ll overturn one pingpong table ?til the morning brings us shock And I must glow, oh, no, no, no! Oh, no, no, no! And I don?t know if I?m ever coming home. Take the last train to Rockland, And I?ll see you in a bit. We?ll have dreams and adorations And that sensitive bullshit I wanna blow. oh, no, no, no! Oh, no, no, no! And I don?t know if I?m ever coming home. Rsgwynn1@cs.com wrote: > In a message dated 5/31/2008 2:59:39 PM Central Daylight Time, > cervantes.james@gmail.com writes: >> >> I'd never read this, David! Thanks for the droll humor and >> accurateness of detail down to the dribble! Norman was, by the way, >> my thesis advisor at Iowa! >> >> - Jim! > > Jim, I assume this means you're using the past perfect tense here > rather than the past conditional. > > Sam > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ The moral is this: in American verse, The better you are, the pay is worse. --Corey Ford From Rsgwynn1 at cs.com Sat May 31 16:31:34 2008 From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com (Rsgwynn1@cs.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:00 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Dubious Message-ID: In a message dated 5/31/2008 3:25:33 PM Central Daylight Time, Opus40-01@opus40.org writes: > > Allen Ginsberg joins the Monkees: > > I?M WITH YOU ON THE LAST TRAIN TO ROCKLAND > > > Take the last train to Rockland, > And I?ll meet you in the lobby. > You?ll be in the soup of time > so don?t forget to bring kohlrabi, > oh, no, no, no! > Oh, no, no, no! > > ?cause the angelheaded hipsters > left for balls and endless cock > We?ll overturn one pingpong table > ?til the morning brings us shock > And I must glow, oh, no, no, no! > Oh, no, no, no! > And I don?t know if I?m ever coming home. > > Take the last train to Rockland, > And I?ll see you in a bit. > We?ll have dreams and adorations > > And that sensitive bullshit > I wanna blow. oh, no, no, no! > Oh, no, no, no! > And I don?t know if I?m ever coming home. > Great. This reminds me that for some years I read that phrase as "angleheaded hipsters" until a student called my attention to it. Dyslexia. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080531/f507ee40/attachment.html From JforJames at aol.com Sat May 31 16:45:08 2008 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames@aol.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:00 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Tomorrow Night -- The Stain of Poetry Message-ID: In a message dated 5/31/2008 10:09:57 AM Eastern Daylight Time, bobgrumman@nut-n-but.net writes: Another petty dictator was Andre Breton whose name sits above your query. He tried to make 'rules' for Surrealists and attempted to enforce fealty to his notions of the practice. Finnegan Did he want everyone to be a surrealist, too? My impression of Winters is that he believed every poet should abide by his rules. No, Bob, asam avant-garde poet he knew his place was on outside/periphery, but it seems (according poets early on associated with the surrealist movement) he was imperious and tried to crack down on those he thought strayed from the tenets (manifesto) of surrealism as he saw them. It's one thing to be a narrow-minded poet-critic, like Winters, waving the flag in peoples' faces and trying to get everyone behind it, but when you're an acknowledged leader of what is basically an anarchic, socially disruptive movement, what's the point of trying prod others into your lockstep? But it's the old 'power corrupts' thing, so well said by Lord Acton, that gets people/poets/artists, whether liberal-minded or conservative. Finnegan **************Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with Tyler Florence" on AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4&?NCID=aolfod00030000000002) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080531/3f4cc68b/attachment.html From JforJames at aol.com Sat May 31 17:15:20 2008 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames@aol.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:00 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Dubious Message-ID: In a message dated 5/31/2008 4:32:02 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Rsgwynn1@cs.com writes: This reminds me that for some years I read that phrase as "angleheaded hipsters" until a student called my attention to it. Dyslexia. You were well ahead of your time, foretelling the advent of the 'new architecture. The Spin Doc (no charge) **************Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with Tyler Florence" on AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4&?NCID=aolfod00030000000002) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080531/c0d62e0a/attachment.html From ccooley at overdomain.com Sat May 31 17:21:53 2008 From: ccooley at overdomain.com (Crisman Cooley) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:00 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: FOUND POEM In-Reply-To: <200805310409.m4V49FLr030693@wiz.cath.vt.edu> References: <200805310409.m4V49FLr030693@wiz.cath.vt.edu> Message-ID: > Barry this is hilarious. To me the funniest line is "Soup Kitchen". When my daughter (younger) heard me laughing she asked what I was laughing about. I read the poem to her. She said "I don't understand". The situation reminded me of Blake's divide between Innocence and Experience, that Innocence cannot understand all the things Experience does (besides crying) to shake off despair! ps. We're moving home to SB in late June, after 3.5 years, to take part in the Joyous Future stateside. Crisman > Date: Fri, 30 May 2008 11:51:49 -0700 > From: Barry Spacks > Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: FOUND POEM > > > For a (grim) laugh. > > A LOCAL "FOUND POEM" I'D ENTITLE "AMERICA'S JOYOUS FUTURE" > > > > Don't know if the photo will carry, so here are the words as > posted on the Parish Hall's announcement board: > > MON Alcoholics Anonymous > > TUES Abused Spouses > > WED Eating Disorders > > THU Say No to Drugs > > FRI Teen Suicide Watch > > SAT Soup Kitchen > > SUNDAY SERMON > 9 A.M. > "AMERICA'S JOYOUS > FUTURE" > > > From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sat May 31 18:37:21 2008 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:00 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Schedule at the Parish In-Reply-To: <7E6EE0C3-05A0-42D4-BB23-F17EAA8FFDF9@verizon.net> References: <200805311418.m4VEI8Lq021576@wiz.cath.vt.edu> <7E6EE0C3-05A0-42D4-BB23-F17EAA8FFDF9@verizon.net> Message-ID: <4841D321.1050907@nut-n-but.net> Barry Spacks wrote: > > On May 31, 2008, at 7:18 AM, Bob Grummon wrote: > >> Very funny, Barry. Do you mind its quotation in blogs? >> > glad to spread it around -- will send you the photo of the > announcement board > off channel. > > B. Thanks, Barry. I think I just succeeded in copying the graphic from your other post, so no need to send me anything. --all best, Bob From Opus40-01 at opus40.org Sat May 31 20:36:44 2008 From: Opus40-01 at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:00 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Toot Message-ID: <4841EF1C.4090602@opus40.org> A poem, "Mittens," in Glass: A Journal of Poetry. http://glass-poetry.blogspot.com/ -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ The moral is this: in American verse, The better you are, the pay is worse. --Corey Ford