From Rsgwynn1 at cs.com Tue Jul 1 00:01:40 2008 From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com (Rsgwynn1@cs.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:14 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] CD Wright's body count Message-ID: http://www.amazon.com/One-Big-Self-Prisoners-Louisiana/dp/1931885257/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1214884493&sr=1-1 James, please read what I wrote. This is the coffee-table book I was talking about (and I stand by what I said about its being suitable for the fictional Judy Davis's coffee table). Did the persons depicted in these photographs and poems receive any compensation (to which they were surely entitled)? I read somewhere that they did receive snapshot-size versions of their photos. I call this exploitative. Sam -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080701/0a60659e/attachment.html From chan_jt at hotmail.com Tue Jul 1 01:52:28 2008 From: chan_jt at hotmail.com (JT Chan) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:14 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetry Sz: demystifying mental illness Issue 26 now online Message-ID: Featuring new work by: Dimitris Lyacos Steve Dalachinsky Carrie Hunter Lauren Joslin Charles Frederickson http://poetrysz.blogspot.com Submissions is now open for the November issue. Send your poems, and a short bio, in the body of an email to poetrysz@yahoo.com Please read the guidelines before submitting. Thanks. regards J Chan editor _________________________________________________________________ SEEK New Zealand's #1 jobsite http://a.ninemsn.com.au/b.aspx?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fmsn%2Eseek%2Eco%2Enz%2FID%5FSEEKNZMAIN%5FUSR%2FPages%2Falliance%5Fhomepage%2Eascx%3FComeFrom%3Dmsnnz%26tracking%3Dsk%3Asptlmini%3Ask%3Amsnnz%3A0%3Awindowslive%3A%231&_t=757263783&_r=Seek_NZ_tagline_no1&_m=EXT From rog3r.day at gmail.com Tue Jul 1 01:57:59 2008 From: rog3r.day at gmail.com (Roger Day) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:14 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] CD Wright's body count In-Reply-To: <735794.61802.qm@web54107.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <8CAA93265C0347E-15DC-103C@WEBMAIL-DF07.sysops.aol.com> <735794.61802.qm@web54107.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: What you say is certainly something to guard against, but isn't it a general statement for all poetry? I could say the same about history or religion. All because one writes in a religious vein, the poets religious convictions doesn't give the poem more gravitas. All because one writes about the death of a close one, doesn't make it poetry. All too often, I read poems by tyros who think that just transcribing their broken heart, makes it poem. "all too often" So why just politics? Maybe it's the politics that you don't like? Expanding the lower order errors upwards just for politics. I think the debate in this thread would be enriched if people had read the original book and commented on that. Roger On Tue, Jul 1, 2008 at 3:21 AM, John Jeffrey wrote: > jforjames wrote: "The larger issue is Why is i a poet can't weigh into > social and political issues? And who gets to say this poet has less cred > than this one?" > > For me, the issue isn't that poets can't weigh in on social and political > issues, it's just that, usually, the poems are so numbingly weak. Too often > the poets rely on their belief that the issue and--more importantly (to > them, at least)--their political take on the issue gives the poem its > gravitas. It doesn't. An image can. The writing can. Insight can. But a > political point of view cannot. > > John Jeffrey > > > --- On Mon, 6/30/08, jforjames@aol.com wrote: > > From: jforjames@aol.com > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] CD Wright's body count > To: new-poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > Date: Monday, June 30, 2008, 9:39 PM > > I apologize for the 'claque' bit. I'm a listserv type...and subbed to 4, so > I'll > pass on your invitation..but, > a 'coffee table book'?...come on. When a serious artist/photographer > and poet collaborate, do you want them to produce the thing > in mimeo? I happened to hear Wright talk at length on _One Big > Self_ at this symposium on the collaboration of poets and artists > making books together... > http://beinecke.library.yale.edu/metaphor/Participants.html > If you want to call it, as a slight, an 'art book', I might disagree > but I'd see where you were coming from. > > She reads from the text here: > http://writing.upenn.edu/pennsound/x/Wright.html > Let the cards play themselves, we say in poker. > > The larger issue is Why is i a poet can't weigh into social and political > issues? And who gets to say this poet has less cred than this one? > Finnegan > > -----Original Message----- > From: Rsgwynn1@cs.com > To: new-poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > Sent: Sun, 29 Jun 2008 10:34 pm > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] CD Wright's body count > > In a message dated 6/29/2008 7:17:31 PM Central Daylight Time, > JforJames@aol.com writes: > > In a message dated 6/26/2008 12:03:30 AM Eastern Daylight Time, > Rsgwynn1@cs.com writes: > > http://www.ablemuse.com/erato/ubbhtml/Forum15/HTML/000289.html > > > I seems like the claque concurs. But I don't see the evidence that 'poetry > of witness' is by nature flawed? > I think you are uncomfortable with socio-political poetry. Many are. But > C.D. Wright, if nothing else, doesn't seem a casual observer recasting > newsclippings into poetry. > Finnegan > > > Eratosphere is an open forum, James, just like this one. You're free to > post your opinions there, as I am here. > > Sam > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > ________________________________ > Get the Moviefone Toolbar. Showtimes, theaters, movie news, & more! > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- My Stuff: http://www.badstep.net/ "I began to warm and chill to objects and their fields" Nick Cave & The Bad Seeds From rog3r.day at gmail.com Tue Jul 1 02:05:46 2008 From: rog3r.day at gmail.com (Roger Day) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:14 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] CD Wright's body count In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: If what you say is true, then it may well be exploitative. You seem to impugn the worst on very little evidence, and leap to condemn the genre. None of what I've seen in this thread amounts to a substantial or valid criticism of CD Wrights methodology. Maybe we could get around to discussing the poetry next time? Roger On Tue, Jul 1, 2008 at 5:01 AM, wrote: > http://www.amazon.com/One-Big-Self-Prisoners-Louisiana/dp/1931885257/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1214884493&sr=1-1 > > James, please read what I wrote. This is the coffee-table book I was > talking about (and I stand by what I said about its being suitable for the > fictional Judy Davis's coffee table). Did the persons depicted in these > photographs and poems receive any compensation (to which they were surely > entitled)? I read somewhere that they did receive snapshot-size versions of > their photos. I call this exploitative. > > Sam > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- My Stuff: http://www.badstep.net/ "I began to warm and chill to objects and their fields" Nick Cave & The Bad Seeds From Rsgwynn1 at cs.com Tue Jul 1 09:54:41 2008 From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com (Rsgwynn1@cs.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:14 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] CD Wright's body count Message-ID: In a message dated 7/1/2008 1:05:59 AM Central Daylight Time, rog3r.day@gmail.com writes: > None of what I've seen in this thread amounts to a substantial or > valid criticism of CD Wrights methodology. Maybe we could get around > to discussing the poetry next time? > > Roger I already posted the link to the review. Obviously, Milton wasn't on the scene when he wrote "On the Late Massacre in Piemont," but he witnessed what happened imaginatively. Sam -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080701/35c605b6/attachment.html From jforjames at aol.com Tue Jul 1 13:20:17 2008 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames@aol.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:14 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Latta looks at Logan looking at O'Hara In-Reply-To: <9b1b9dab0806301926v379fc297vbee16cf23a485d85@mail.gmail.com> References: <8CAA9301B83C9E0-15DC-F5E@WEBMAIL-DF07.sysops.aol.com> <213BF3D6-C590-42B3-81ED-BA1D0902C83D@ripon.edu> <9b1b9dab0806301926v379fc297vbee16cf23a485d85@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <8CAA9B5DCDA2B53-B1C-8D7@MBLK-M12.sysops.aol.com> Of the various crimes Logan may commit, his willingness to break the apparently unwritten critic's code of "if you don't have anything nice to say" is an easy one for me to forgive. -- There is guilty pleasure in reading Logan, I must admit. But his reviewing style?has become?so 'schtick' now. An old burlesque comic punching out one-liner cuts.?I want to back him with a snare drum doing rim-shots as?he?peels them?off. And when is he going to?edit an anthology of contemporary poetry. The page count I'm sure won't make even to hundred. Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: Chris Lott Sent: Mon, 30 Jun 2008 10:26 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Latta looks at Logan looking at O'Hara On Mon, Jun 30, 2008 at 17:49, David Graham wrote: > A couple good entries also on Greg Rappleye's blog on the same subject--last > couple days. > http://sonnetsat4am.blogspot.com/ > Rappleye's blog is one of the ones I visit quite often. > Logan taking condescending potshots at Frank O'Hara, though: if that isn't > a "dog bites man" story, I don't know what is. . . . I read Rappleye's blog as well and agree that it is quite good. But, without getting into a debate about Logan himself, I'd be lying if I didn't note that I agree with a whole lot of the things Logan said in that review about O'Hara and the NY School, despite the way he might have said them. Of the various crimes Logan may commit, his willingness to break the apparently unwritten critic's code of "if you don't have anything nice to say" is an easy one for me to forgive. c _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080701/f659fdd4/attachment.html From jjeffreymail at yahoo.com Tue Jul 1 13:56:29 2008 From: jjeffreymail at yahoo.com (John Jeffrey) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:14 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] CD Wright's body count In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <461449.90121.qm@web54103.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Yes, it is true for all poetry.? I mentioned the social and political only because that was the subject of the comment.? I glaze and fade at religious poetry, too, and also all "...ism" poetry, and poems about Uncle Bob, and poems about cormorants, and...? Unless--again--the poem itself is good.? I have no religious inclinations but I can still get woozy reading Hopkins--because of the writing.? On the other hand, I once heard a woman read a poem about her dead husband.? By the end she was weeping openly, but while the woman's grief was genuine and powerful, the poem was bad. John Jeffrey --- On Tue, 7/1/08, Roger Day wrote: From: Roger Day Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] CD Wright's body count To: jjeffreymail@yahoo.com, "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &, Views" Date: Tuesday, July 1, 2008, 1:57 AM What you say is certainly something to guard against, but isn't it a general statement for all poetry? I could say the same about history or religion. All because one writes in a religious vein, the poets religious convictions doesn't give the poem more gravitas. All because one writes about the death of a close one, doesn't make it poetry. All too often, I read poems by tyros who think that just transcribing their broken heart, makes it poem. "all too often" So why just politics? Maybe it's the politics that you don't like? Expanding the lower order errors upwards just for politics. I think the debate in this thread would be enriched if people had read the original book and commented on that. Roger On Tue, Jul 1, 2008 at 3:21 AM, John Jeffrey wrote: > jforjames wrote: "The larger issue is Why is i a poet can't weigh into > social and political issues? And who gets to say this poet has less cred > than this one?" > > For me, the issue isn't that poets can't weigh in on social and political > issues, it's just that, usually, the poems are so numbingly weak. Too often > the poets rely on their belief that the issue and--more importantly (to > them, at least)--their political take on the issue gives the poem its > gravitas. It doesn't. An image can. The writing can. Insight can. But a > political point of view cannot. > > John Jeffrey > > > --- On Mon, 6/30/08, jforjames@aol.com wrote: > > From: jforjames@aol.com > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] CD Wright's body count > To: new-poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > Date: Monday, June 30, 2008, 9:39 PM > > I apologize for the 'claque' bit. I'm a listserv type...and subbed to 4, so > I'll > pass on your invitation..but, > a 'coffee table book'?...come on. When a serious artist/photographer > and poet collaborate, do you want them to produce the thing > in mimeo? I happened to hear Wright talk at length on _One Big > Self_ at this symposium on the collaboration of poets and artists > making books together... > http://beinecke.library.yale.edu/metaphor/Participants.html > If you want to call it, as a slight, an 'art book', I might disagree > but I'd see where you were coming from. > > She reads from the text here: > http://writing.upenn.edu/pennsound/x/Wright.html > Let the cards play themselves, we say in poker. > > The larger issue is Why is i a poet can't weigh into social and political > issues? And who gets to say this poet has less cred than this one? > Finnegan > > -----Original Message----- > From: Rsgwynn1@cs.com > To: new-poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > Sent: Sun, 29 Jun 2008 10:34 pm > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] CD Wright's body count > > In a message dated 6/29/2008 7:17:31 PM Central Daylight Time, > JforJames@aol.com writes: > > In a message dated 6/26/2008 12:03:30 AM Eastern Daylight Time, > Rsgwynn1@cs.com writes: > > http://www.ablemuse.com/erato/ubbhtml/Forum15/HTML/000289.html > > > I seems like the claque concurs. But I don't see the evidence that 'poetry > of witness' is by nature flawed? > I think you are uncomfortable with socio-political poetry. Many are. But > C.D. Wright, if nothing else, doesn't seem a casual observer recasting > newsclippings into poetry. > Finnegan > > > Eratosphere is an open forum, James, just like this one. You're free to > post your opinions there, as I am here. > > Sam > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > ________________________________ > Get the Moviefone Toolbar. Showtimes, theaters, movie news, & more! > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- My Stuff: http://www.badstep.net/ "I began to warm and chill to objects and their fields" Nick Cave & The Bad Seeds -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080701/2e839123/attachment.html From jforjames at aol.com Tue Jul 1 14:09:49 2008 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames@aol.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:15 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] WorldPo: Idol Poets in Abu Dhabi Message-ID: <8CAA9BCC8FDE163-1AA4-208C@mblk-d11.sysops.aol.com> Million's Poet to raise prize money http://www.gulfnews.com/nation/Heritage_and_Culture/10225134.html By Samir Salama, Associate Editor Published: June 30, 2008, 23:37 ? Abu DhabiL The Million's Poet, a reality television show for Nabati (traditional) poets, will feature this year increased prize money, publishing and translation into English of the winners' works, the organisers announced on Monday. The show, which is originally a competition for the most talented poet in traditional Arabic poetry to win a prize of Dh1 million, has increased the prize money to Dh5 million, said Mohammad Khalaf Al Mazrouei, director general of the Abu Dhabi Authority for Culture and Heritage. "The second place winner will get Dh4 million, while third place poet will be granted Dh3 million. The fourth place winner will get Dh2 million while Dh1 million go to the winner of the fifth place in the new session 2008-2009," Al Mazrouei added. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ? ? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080701/8253d911/attachment.html From jforjames at aol.com Tue Jul 1 17:36:09 2008 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames@aol.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:15 2009 Subject: Fwd: [New-Poetry] CD Wright's body count In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8CAA9D99B9C0F78-8F4-154A@webmail-md03.sysops.aol.com> Somehow my message to John went b/c... -----Original Message----- From: JforJames@aol.com To: jjeffreymail@yahoo.com Sent: Tue, 1 Jul 2008 8:59 am Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] CD Wright's body count In a message dated 6/30/2008 10:21:41 PM Eastern Daylight Time, jjeffreymail@yahoo.com writes: For me, the issue isn't that poets can't weigh in on social and political issues, it's just that, usually, the poems are so numbingly weak.? Too often the poets rely on their belief that the issue and--more importantly (to them, at least)--their political take on the issue gives the poem its gravitas.? It doesn't.? An image can.? The writing can.? Insight can.? But a political point of view cannot. John,?any kind of subject matter can be the basis for bad poetry. If socio-political circumstances and themes are tougher to tackle without the poetry faltering, that might be more reason that these difficult subjects/themes should be taken on. One probably has a better opportunity to produce a memorable and lasting poem by?taking on the?difficult subject/theme than?by giving us a poetic treatment of material in which the?poetry essentially inheres.? Finnegan Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for fuel-efficient used cars. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080701/09c98173/attachment.html From jforjames at aol.com Tue Jul 1 19:09:04 2008 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames@aol.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:15 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] CD Wright's body count In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8CAA9E697249DFF-F9C-15A2@FWM-D18.sysops.aol.com> Sam, documentary photographers don't often pay people to shoot their images. A simple release form is enough to clear publication. Nothing about the photographs (or poetry) strikes me as exploitive. Nothing I heard in Wright's presentation led me to think, as artistic?collaborators, they?were?doing anything more than throwing light (in both photographic and poetic sense) on a obscure, unseen part of the vast US penal system. I don't know the Judy Davis/Woody Allen?reference, I'm afraid, but a well-produced, large format?book of photographs is an 'art book'. They're?costly, true.?But the term?'coffee table book' seems pointed?perjorative in a?Loganesque way. Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: Rsgwynn1@cs.com To: new-poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Tue, 1 Jul 2008 12:01 am Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] CD Wright's body count http://www.amazon.com/One-Big-Self-Prisoners-Louisiana/dp/1931885257/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1214884493&sr=1-1 James, please read what I wrote.? This is the coffee-table book I was talking about (and I stand by what I said about its being suitable for the fictional Judy Davis's coffee table).? Did the persons depicted in these photographs and poems receive any compensation (to which they were surely entitled)?? I read somewhere that they did receive snapshot-size versions of their photos.? I call this exploitative.? Sam _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080701/9896c7bb/attachment.html From Rsgwynn1 at cs.com Tue Jul 1 19:38:36 2008 From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com (Rsgwynn1@cs.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:15 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] CD Wright's body count Message-ID: In a message dated 7/1/2008 6:09:47 PM Central Daylight Time, jforjames@aol.com writes: > > Sam, documentary photographers don't often pay people to shoot their images. > A simple release form is enough > to clear publication. Nothing about the photographs (or poetry) strikes me > as exploitive. Nothing I heard in Wright's > presentation led me to think, as artistic collaborators, they were doing > anything more than throwing light (in both photographic and > poetic sense) on a obscure, unseen part of the vast US penal system. > > I don't know the Judy Davis/Woody Allen reference, I'm afraid, but a > well-produced, large format book of photographs is an 'art book'. > They're costly, true. But the term 'coffee table book' seems pointed > perjorative in a Loganesque way. > Finnegan OK, Lusher gets royalties, Wright gets royalties, and the prisoners get a release form? Cool. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coffee_table_book -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080701/df92be69/attachment.html From millb at aol.com Tue Jul 1 19:38:43 2008 From: millb at aol.com (millb@aol.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:15 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] CD Wright's body count In-Reply-To: <8CAA9E697249DFF-F9C-15A2@FWM-D18.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CAA9E697249DFF-F9C-15A2@FWM-D18.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <8CAA9EABA95FAE5-18F0-25C3@webmail-nb19.sysops.aol.com> Let me play devil's advocate. Much has been made on this thread of those explotive writers who "bear witness" or write about war and tragedies from news articles and not from first hand experience.? Blink, Blink.? What exactly is wrong with that?? Marianne Moore certainly crafted worthy poems out of newspaper clippings, as did Sylvia Plath and TS Eliot and probably more, but I cannot think of any right now. Certainly Shakespeare drew on Mirror for Magistrates and historical stories for his plays. What's wrong with CD Wright perhaps being inspired by something less than throwing herself into volunteer work on the battlefield? Mill -----Original Message----- From: jforjames@aol.com To: new-poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Tue, 1 Jul 2008 4:09 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] CD Wright's body count Sam, documentary photographers don't often pay people to shoot their images. A simple release form is enough to clear publication. Nothing about the photographs (or poetry) strikes me as exploitive. Nothing I heard in Wright's presentation led me to think, as artistic?collaborators, they?were?doing anything more than throwing light (in both photographic and poetic sense) on a obscure, unseen part of the vast US penal system. I don't know the Judy Davis/Woody Allen?reference, I'm afraid, but a well-produced, large format?book of photographs is an 'art book'. They're?costly, true.?But the term?'coffee table book' seems pointed?perjorative in a?Loganesque way. Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: Rsgwynn1@cs.com To: new-poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Tue, 1 Jul 2008 12:01 am Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] CD Wright's body count http://www.amazon.com/One-Big-Self-Prisoners-Louisiana/dp/1931885257/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1214884493&sr=1-1 James, please read what I wrote.? This is the coffee-table book I was talking about (and I stand by what I said about its being suitable for the fictional Judy Davis's coffee table).? Did the persons depicted in these photographs and poems receive any compensation (to which they were surely entitled)?? I read somewhere that they did receive snapshot-size versions of their photos.? I call this exploitative.? Sam _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry Get the Moviefone Toolbar. Showtimes, theaters, movie news, & more! _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080701/46a9fb55/attachment.html From jforjames at aol.com Tue Jul 1 19:53:11 2008 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames@aol.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:15 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] CD Wright's body count In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8CAA9ECC0F7CD33-F9C-175B@FWM-D18.sysops.aol.com> Lusher gets royalties, Wright gets royalties Yeah, and I'm sure they're lving high on those fat checks. http://www.jackshainman.com/dynamic/artist.asp?ArtistID=34 This kind of photograhy I'm sure is jumping off the shelves at Barnes & Noble. Finnegan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080701/f29e4afd/attachment.html From jforjames at aol.com Tue Jul 1 20:17:50 2008 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames@aol.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:15 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Nick Flynn Message-ID: <8CAA9F032DC0E57-AA0-20B8@FWM-M40.sysops.aol.com> http://www.latimes.com/features/books/la-et-flynn2-2008jul02,0,2691633.story Nick Flynn, well-traveled poet Nick Flynn's poetry led to a memoir, a play and a possible movie. But it has taken many years and many, many drafts to get this far. By William Georgiades, Special to The Times July 2, 2008 NEW YORK -- On his passport, Nick Flynn lists his profession as "poet," but there is nothing anemic or brooding about his appearance. On a recent afternoon in New York's West Village, he dismounted the bike he rides every day from Brooklyn to Manhattan looking like a man ready to ride another 50 miles. In person, as in his prose and poetry, Flynn is exuberant and present, a friendly force to be reckoned with -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080701/8d508d72/attachment.html From Opus40-01 at opus40.org Tue Jul 1 21:38:12 2008 From: Opus40-01 at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:15 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] CD Wright's body count In-Reply-To: <8CAA9E697249DFF-F9C-15A2@FWM-D18.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CAA9E697249DFF-F9C-15A2@FWM-D18.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <486ADC04.7030508@opus40.org> You'd have to put me down as an exploiter too. http://www.amazon.com/Struggle-lose-struggle-win-Workers/dp/0590073559/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1214962638&sr=8-1 jforjames@aol.com wrote: > Sam, documentary photographers don't often pay people to shoot their > images. A simple release form is enough > to clear publication. Nothing about the photographs (or poetry) > strikes me as exploitive. Nothing I heard in Wright's > presentation led me to think, as artistic collaborators, > they were doing anything more than throwing light (in both > photographic and > poetic sense) on a obscure, unseen part of the vast US penal system. > > I don't know the Judy Davis/Woody Allen reference, I'm afraid, but a > well-produced, large format book of photographs is an 'art book'. > They're costly, true. But the term 'coffee table book' seems > pointed perjorative in a Loganesque way. > Finnegan > > -----Original Message----- > From: Rsgwynn1@cs.com > To: new-poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > Sent: Tue, 1 Jul 2008 12:01 am > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] CD Wright's body count > > http://www.amazon.com/One-Big-Self-Prisoners-Louisiana/dp/1931885257/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1214884493&sr=1-1 > > > James, please read what I wrote. This is the coffee-table book I was > talking about (and I stand by what I said about its being suitable for > the fictional Judy Davis's coffee table). Did the persons depicted in > these photographs and poems receive any compensation (to which they > were surely entitled)? I read somewhere that they /did /receive > snapshot-size versions of their photos. I call this exploitative. > > Sam > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Get the Moviefone Toolbar > . > Showtimes, theaters, movie news, & more! > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ The moral is this: in American verse, The better you are, the pay is worse. --Corey Ford From atelierjewelweed at gmail.com Tue Jul 1 22:08:13 2008 From: atelierjewelweed at gmail.com (Suzanne Burns) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:15 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Nick Flynn In-Reply-To: <8CAA9F032DC0E57-AA0-20B8@FWM-M40.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CAA9F032DC0E57-AA0-20B8@FWM-M40.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: His work is incredible. :-) I took a class once with Mark Doty just about the time his first book came out. He mudged me toward him an I felt like I stumbled upon gold. Suzanne On Tue, Jul 1, 2008 at 8:17 PM, wrote: > > http://www.latimes.com/features/books/la-et-flynn2-2008jul02,0,2691633.story > Nick Flynn, well-traveled poet > Nick Flynn's poetry led to a memoir, a play and a possible movie. But it > has taken many years and many, many drafts to get this far. > By William Georgiades, Special to The Times > July 2, 2008 > NEW YORK -- On his passport, Nick Flynn lists his profession as "poet," > but there is nothing anemic or brooding about his appearance. On a recent > afternoon in New York's West Village, he dismounted the bike he rides every > day from Brooklyn to Manhattan looking like a man ready to ride another 50 > miles. In person, as in his prose and poetry, Flynn is exuberant and > present, a friendly force to be reckoned with > ------------------------------ > Get the Moviefone Toolbar. > Showtimes, theaters, movie news, & more! > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080701/141594da/attachment.html From Rsgwynn1 at cs.com Tue Jul 1 22:57:14 2008 From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com (Rsgwynn1@cs.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:15 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] CD Wright's body count Message-ID: In a message dated 7/1/2008 6:53:36 PM Central Daylight Time, jforjames@aol.com writes: > > >> Lusher gets royalties, Wright gets royalties > Yeah, and I'm sure they're lving high on those fat checks. > http://www.jackshainman.com/dynamic/artist.asp?ArtistID=34 > This kind of photograhy I'm sure is jumping off the shelves at Barnes & > Noble. > > Finnegan It's not the quantity but the quality that matters, imho. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080701/c1830e52/attachment.html From Rsgwynn1 at cs.com Tue Jul 1 23:02:24 2008 From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com (Rsgwynn1@cs.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:15 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] CD Wright's body count Message-ID: http://www.jackshainman.com/dynamic/artist.asp?ArtistID=34 I don't see any prices for these limited edtions. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080701/ce2835e0/attachment.html From Rsgwynn1 at cs.com Tue Jul 1 23:05:07 2008 From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com (Rsgwynn1@cs.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:15 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] CD Wright's body count Message-ID: In a message dated 7/1/2008 8:38:27 PM Central Daylight Time, Opus40-01@opus40.org writes: > > You'd have to put me down as an exploiter too. > > http://www.amazon.com/Struggle-lose-struggle-win-Workers/dp/0590073559/ref=sr > _1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1214962638&sr=8-1 Tad, I can't summon up anything but the book's cover, but I assume these UMW members weren't incarcerated. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080701/f71a11c7/attachment.html From Rsgwynn1 at cs.com Tue Jul 1 23:18:27 2008 From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com (Rsgwynn1@cs.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:15 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] CD Wright's body count Message-ID: In a message dated 7/1/2008 6:39:07 PM Central Daylight Time, millb@aol.com writes: > Marianne Moore certainly crafted worthy poems out of newspaper clippings, > as did Sylvia Plath and TS Eliot and probably more, but I cannot think of any > right now. Certainly Shakespeare drew on Mirror for Magistrates and > historical stories for his plays. What's wrong with CD Wright perhaps being inspired > by something less than throwing herself into volunteer work on the > battlefield? > I don't recall that Moore proposed herself as a witness to social injustice, unless you mean her great unwritten poem protesting the injustice that sent Sacco and Vanzetti to the electric chair. As for Plath and Eliot I can't say; can you be specific? Plath witnessed the concentration camps by comparing them to her father and her marriage. What did Eliot claim to witness? Pound certainly did; witnessing the sad fall of his hero, Il Duce. And Shakespeare, as far as I can recall, was writing plays, not lyric poems. I don't recall his claiming to have personally witnessed what happened at Bosworth Field or Agincourt. Jesus, I'm not talking about political poetry or poetry of social protest. I'm talking about uninspired journalism posing as poetry. Have any of you actually read the book under discussion? If so, please let me know. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080701/f9148ea9/attachment.html From chris.lott at gmail.com Tue Jul 1 23:29:44 2008 From: chris.lott at gmail.com (Chris Lott) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:15 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] CD Wright's body count In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <9b1b9dab0807012029v6bddb4c7o27f53a98de86a8f1@mail.gmail.com> On Tue, Jul 1, 2008 at 19:05, wrote: > In a message dated 7/1/2008 8:38:27 PM Central Daylight Time, > Opus40-01@opus40.org writes: > > You'd have to put me down as an exploiter too. > > http://www.amazon.com/Struggle-lose-struggle-win-Workers/dp/0590073559/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1214962638&sr=8-1 > > Tad, I can't summon up anything but the book's cover, but I assume these UMW > members weren't incarcerated. I don't see how being "exploited" hinges on that condition. c From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Wed Jul 2 07:16:39 2008 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:16 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] CD Wright's body count In-Reply-To: <8CAA9ECC0F7CD33-F9C-175B@FWM-D18.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CAA9ECC0F7CD33-F9C-175B@FWM-D18.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <486B6397.2010407@nut-n-but.net> jforjames@aol.com wrote: > > Lusher gets royalties, Wright gets royalties > > Yeah, and I'm sure they're lving high on those fat checks. She sure is--but they're checks from the true market of politically-correct mediocrities: grants and awards bestowers. --Bob G. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080702/17022c9d/attachment.html From rog3r.day at gmail.com Wed Jul 2 08:29:42 2008 From: rog3r.day at gmail.com (Roger Day) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:16 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] CD Wright's body count In-Reply-To: <486B6397.2010407@nut-n-but.net> References: <8CAA9ECC0F7CD33-F9C-175B@FWM-D18.sysops.aol.com> <486B6397.2010407@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: "politically correct": the lowest denominator of criticism these days. Something you don't like? Why, it's "politically correct". I call bullshit on this. I don't think CD Wright - or any other poet in any other academy - is living high on the hog. Roger On 7/2/08, Bob Grumman wrote: > > > jforjames@aol.com wrote: > > Lusher gets royalties, Wright gets royaltiesYeah, and I'm sure they're lving > high on those fat checks. > She sure is--but they're checks from the true market of politically-correct > mediocrities: grants and awards bestowers. > > --Bob G. > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- My Stuff: http://www.badstep.net/ "I began to warm and chill to objects and their fields" Nick Cave & The Bad Seeds From Opus40-01 at opus40.org Wed Jul 2 08:45:00 2008 From: Opus40-01 at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:16 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] CD Wright's body count In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <486B784C.1090806@opus40.org> But they weren't compensated for the photographs, either. Rsgwynn1@cs.com wrote: > In a message dated 7/1/2008 8:38:27 PM Central Daylight Time, > Opus40-01@opus40.org writes: >> >> You'd have to put me down as an exploiter too. >> >> http://www.amazon.com/Struggle-lose-struggle-win-Workers/dp/0590073559/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1214962638&sr=8-1 > > > Tad, I can't summon up anything but the book's cover, but I assume > these UMW members weren't incarcerated. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ The moral is this: in American verse, The better you are, the pay is worse. --Corey Ford From grahamd at ripon.edu Wed Jul 2 09:00:35 2008 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:16 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] What I witnessed Message-ID: <9625B832-C07F-4D86-8345-B54334E099DB@ripon.edu> I haven't read CD Wright's book & have no opinion on it as poetry, journalism, or anything else. I confess her work has left me cold for some time, but I also haven't kept up with it. The Poetry Of Witness, though, is a phrase that I find interesting, in part because of its basic ambiguity, coupled with the fervor with which it often is deployed, both by fans and by skeptics. Back in the late 1970s I witnessed a wonderful moment at a reading given by Robert Francis. This would have been in Amherst, Massachusetts, at the Jones Library. After reading a number of his charming, simple-seeming lyrics to the polite murmurs of the audience, Francis then recited a fairly strident anti-war poem--to enthusiastic applause. The poet stood there, looking quizzical for a long moment (I am aware how studied his performance may have been), waiting for the applause to subside into smug silence. Then he very delicately inquired, "Now, was that applause for me, for the poem, or for the sentiments in the poem? You know, applause can be so ambiguous." ======================================== David Graham grahamd@ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.mac.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080702/99007e5f/attachment.html From browning at splitthisrock.org Wed Jul 2 09:21:04 2008 From: browning at splitthisrock.org (browning) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:16 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] What I witnessed In-Reply-To: <9625B832-C07F-4D86-8345-B54334E099DB@ripon.edu> Message-ID: <003601c8dc46$7b9e1c00$eb01a8c0@SBLAPTOP> Folks, As the poet E. Ethelbert Miller likes to point out, James Baldwin spoke of the witness as being altogether different from the observer, as the witness is called upon to testify. We are all witnesses to our country's outrageous prison-industrial complex, which has the highest incarceration rate of any country in the world. Let me say that again: The US has the highest incarceration rate of any country in the world. The people we lock up - mostly poor men of color - are voiceless and considered altogether expendable. I have also not yet read CD Wright's book, and I'm with those who have not been moved by previous work I've read. But I am in favor of any poet or artist, indeed any citizen, drawing attention to the human impact of our policy decision to lock up so many of our brothers and sisters. The stronger the poems as art, of course, the more effective they will be. But how can we question a poet's right to write about our inhumanity as a society? Isn't this, in fact, our responsibility? ** Sarah Browning Co-Director Split This Rock Poetry Festival c/o Institute for Policy Studies 1112 16th Street, NW, Suite 600 Washington, DC 20036 browning@splitthisrock.org www.splitthisrock.org 202-787-5210 _____ From: new-poetry-bounces@wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto:new-poetry-bounces@wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of David Graham Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 2008 9:01 AM To: new-poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu & Views Subject: [New-Poetry] What I witnessed I haven't read CD Wright's book & have no opinion on it as poetry, journalism, or anything else. I confess her work has left me cold for some time, but I also haven't kept up with it. The Poetry Of Witness, though, is a phrase that I find interesting, in part because of its basic ambiguity, coupled with the fervor with which it often is deployed, both by fans and by skeptics. Back in the late 1970s I witnessed a wonderful moment at a reading given by Robert Francis. This would have been in Amherst, Massachusetts, at the Jones Library. After reading a number of his charming, simple-seeming lyrics to the polite murmurs of the audience, Francis then recited a fairly strident anti-war poem--to enthusiastic applause. The poet stood there, looking quizzical for a long moment (I am aware how studied his performance may have been), waiting for the applause to subside into smug silence. Then he very delicately inquired, "Now, was that applause for me, for the poem, or for the sentiments in the poem? You know, applause can be so ambiguous." ======================================== David Graham grahamd@ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.mac.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080702/2dfd05f7/attachment.html From Opus40-01 at opus40.org Wed Jul 2 09:56:18 2008 From: Opus40-01 at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:16 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] What I witnessed In-Reply-To: <9625B832-C07F-4D86-8345-B54334E099DB@ripon.edu> References: <9625B832-C07F-4D86-8345-B54334E099DB@ripon.edu> Message-ID: <486B8902.6090604@opus40.org> Wonderful words by Francis. David Graham wrote: > I haven't read CD Wright's book & have no opinion on it as poetry, > journalism, or anything else. I confess her work has left me cold for > some time, but I also haven't kept up with it. > > The Poetry Of Witness, though, is a phrase that I find interesting, in > part because of its basic ambiguity, coupled with the fervor with > which it often is deployed, both by fans and by skeptics. > > Back in the late 1970s I witnessed a wonderful moment at a reading > given by Robert Francis. This would have been in Amherst, > Massachusetts, at the Jones Library. After reading a number of his > charming, simple-seeming lyrics to the polite murmurs of the audience, > Francis then recited a fairly strident anti-war poem--to enthusiastic > applause. > > The poet stood there, looking quizzical for a long moment (I am aware > how studied his performance may have been), waiting for the applause > to subside into smug silence. Then he very delicately inquired, "Now, > was that applause for /me/, for the /poem/, or for the /sentiments in/ > the poem? You know, applause can be so ambiguous." > > > > > > > > ======================================== > David Graham > grahamd@ripon.edu > > Home Page: > http://web.mac.com/drjazz > > Poetry Library: > http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html > ========================================== > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ The moral is this: in American verse, The better you are, the pay is worse. --Corey Ford From jjeffreymail at yahoo.com Wed Jul 2 10:07:40 2008 From: jjeffreymail at yahoo.com (John Jeffrey) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:16 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] What I witnessed In-Reply-To: <9625B832-C07F-4D86-8345-B54334E099DB@ripon.edu> Message-ID: <965766.97200.qm@web54101.mail.re2.yahoo.com> -- "Now, was that applause for me, for the poem, or for the sentiments in the poem? You know, applause can be so ambiguous." THAT is what (at least) I am talking about, that sentiment makes many people raise their opinion of a poem, praising flabby, bland poems to the status of "powerful" if they agree with the point of view put forward by the poet. John Jeffrey --- On Wed, 7/2/08, David Graham wrote: From: David Graham Subject: [New-Poetry] What I witnessed To: "new-poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu & Views" Date: Wednesday, July 2, 2008, 9:00 AM I haven't read CD Wright's book & have no opinion on it as poetry, journalism, or anything else. I confess her work has left me cold for some time, but I also haven't kept up with it. The Poetry Of Witness, though, is a phrase that I find interesting, in part because of its basic ambiguity, coupled with the fervor with which it often is deployed, both by fans and by skeptics. Back in the late 1970s I witnessed a wonderful moment at a reading given by Robert Francis. This would have been in Amherst, Massachusetts, at the Jones Library. After reading a number of his charming, simple-seeming lyrics to the polite murmurs of the audience, Francis then recited a fairly strident anti-war poem--to enthusiastic applause. The poet stood there, looking quizzical for a long moment (I am aware how studied his performance may have been), waiting for the applause to subside into smug silence. Then he very delicately inquired, "Now, was that applause for me, for the poem, or for the sentiments in the poem? You know, applause can be so ambiguous." ========================================David Grahamgrahamd@ripon.edu Home Page:http://web.mac.com/drjazz Poetry Library:http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html========================================== _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080702/bdff6b58/attachment.html From browning at splitthisrock.org Wed Jul 2 10:13:22 2008 From: browning at splitthisrock.org (browning) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:16 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] What I witnessed In-Reply-To: <965766.97200.qm@web54101.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <006b01c8dc4d$c9da5260$eb01a8c0@SBLAPTOP> So we just have to be good readers/critics, as always. And as poets, we should apply our highest standards to all our poems, as always. ** Sarah Browning Co-Director Split This Rock Poetry Festival c/o Institute for Policy Studies 1112 16th Street, NW, Suite 600 Washington, DC 20036 browning@splitthisrock.org www.splitthisrock.org 202-787-5210 _____ From: new-poetry-bounces@wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto:new-poetry-bounces@wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of John Jeffrey Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 2008 10:08 AM To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] What I witnessed -- "Now, was that applause for me, for the poem, or for the sentiments in the poem? You know, applause can be so ambiguous." THAT is what (at least) I am talking about, that sentiment makes many people raise their opinion of a poem, praising flabby, bland poems to the status of "powerful" if they agree with the point of view put forward by the poet. John Jeffrey --- On Wed, 7/2/08, David Graham wrote: From: David Graham Subject: [New-Poetry] What I witnessed To: "new-poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu & Views" Date: Wednesday, July 2, 2008, 9:00 AM I haven't read CD Wright's book & have no opinion on it as poetry, journalism, or anything else. I confess her work has left me cold for some time, but I also haven't kept up with it. The Poetry Of Witness, though, is a phrase that I find interesting, in part because of its basic ambiguity, coupled with the fervor with which it often is deployed, both by fans and by skeptics. Back in the late 1970s I witnessed a wonderful moment at a reading given by Robert Francis. This would have been in Amherst, Massachusetts, at the Jones Library. After reading a number of his charming, simple-seeming lyrics to the polite murmurs of the audience, Francis then recited a fairly strident anti-war poem--to enthusiastic applause. The poet stood there, looking quizzical for a long moment (I am aware how studied his performance may have been), waiting for the applause to subside into smug silence. Then he very delicately inquired, "Now, was that applause for me, for the poem, or for the sentiments in the poem? You know, applause can be so ambiguous." ======================================== David Graham grahamd@ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.mac.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080702/5aa9dabc/attachment.html From halvard at earthlink.net Wed Jul 2 10:51:25 2008 From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:16 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] What I witnessed In-Reply-To: <9625B832-C07F-4D86-8345-B54334E099DB@ripon.edu> References: <9625B832-C07F-4D86-8345-B54334E099DB@ripon.edu> Message-ID: <183F234B-B0A8-4093-A266-8705EF119C89@earthlink.net> On Jul 2, 2008, at 8:00 AM, David Graham wrote: > Back in the late 1970s I witnessed a wonderful moment at a reading > given by Robert Francis. This would have been in Amherst, > Massachusetts, at the Jones Library. After reading a number of his > charming, simple-seeming lyrics to the polite murmurs of the > audience, Francis then recited a fairly strident anti-war poem--to > enthusiastic applause. > > The poet stood there, looking quizzical for a long moment (I am > aware how studied his performance may have been), waiting for the > applause to subside into smug silence. Then he very delicately > inquired, "Now, was that applause for me, for the poem, or for the > sentiments in the poem? You know, applause can be so ambiguous." Talk about looking a gift horse in the mouth. Hal "I really feel sorry for people who think things like soap dishes or mirrors or Coke bottles are ugly, because they're surrounded by things like that all day long, and it must make them miserable." --Robert Rauschenberg Halvard Johnson ================ halvard@earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080702/155da479/attachment.html From halvard at earthlink.net Wed Jul 2 10:54:55 2008 From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:16 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] What I witnessed In-Reply-To: <006b01c8dc4d$c9da5260$eb01a8c0@SBLAPTOP> References: <006b01c8dc4d$c9da5260$eb01a8c0@SBLAPTOP> Message-ID: <538C739C-1490-46C8-83F5-BDB40859D1BF@earthlink.net> Just so. As for me, I always write only the best work I am capable of. Hal "Oil separation is natural." --Anon. Halvard Johnson ================ halvard@earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html On Jul 2, 2008, at 9:13 AM, browning wrote: > So we just have to be good readers/critics, as always. And as poets, > we should apply our highest standards to all our poems, as always. > > > ** > Sarah Browning > Co-Director > Split This Rock Poetry Festival > c/o Institute for Policy Studies > 1112 16th Street, NW, Suite 600 > Washington, DC 20036 > browning@splitthisrock.org > www.splitthisrock.org > 202-787-5210 > > From: new-poetry-bounces@wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto:new-poetry-bounces@wiz.cath.vt.edu > ] On Behalf Of John Jeffrey > Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 2008 10:08 AM > To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] What I witnessed > > > -- "Now, was that applause for me, for the poem, or for the > sentiments in the poem? You know, applause can be so ambiguous." > > THAT is what (at least) I am talking about, that sentiment makes > many people raise their opinion of a poem, praising flabby, bland > poems to the status of "powerful" if they agree with the point of > view put forward by the poet. > > John Jeffrey > > > > --- On Wed, 7/2/08, David Graham wrote: > From: David Graham > Subject: [New-Poetry] What I witnessed > To: "new-poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu & Views" > Date: Wednesday, July 2, 2008, 9:00 AM > I haven't read CD Wright's book & have no opinion on it as poetry, > journalism, or anything else. I confess her work has left me cold > for some time, but I also haven't kept up with it. > > The Poetry Of Witness, though, is a phrase that I find interesting, > in part because of its basic ambiguity, coupled with the fervor with > which it often is deployed, both by fans and by skeptics. > > Back in the late 1970s I witnessed a wonderful moment at a reading > given by Robert Francis. This would have been inAmherst, > Massachusetts, at the Jones Library. After reading a number of his > charming, simple-seeming lyrics to the polite murmurs of the > audience, Francis then recited a fairly strident anti-war poem--to > enthusiastic applause. > > The poet stood there, looking quizzical for a long moment (I am > aware how studied his performance may have been), waiting for the > applause to subside into smug silence. Then he very delicately > inquired, "Now, was that applause for me, for the poem, or for the > sentiments in the poem? You know, applause can be so ambiguous." > > > > > > ======================================== > David Graham > grahamd@ripon.edu > > Home Page: > http://web.mac.com/drjazz > > Poetry Library: > http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html > ========================================== > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080702/99ea2539/attachment.html From Rsgwynn1 at cs.com Wed Jul 2 11:03:25 2008 From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com (Rsgwynn1@cs.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:16 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] CD Wright's body count Message-ID: http://edelmangallery.com/lusterp.htm -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080702/b2ea6cb8/attachment.html From browning at splitthisrock.org Wed Jul 2 11:04:59 2008 From: browning at splitthisrock.org (browning) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:17 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] What I witnessed In-Reply-To: <538C739C-1490-46C8-83F5-BDB40859D1BF@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <009801c8dc54$ff76d2c0$eb01a8c0@SBLAPTOP> Sorry, Hal, hard to tell tone in email so I don't know if you're being sarcastic. But we should all feel free to rant and rave all we want in private (the first draft, that is) - we are living in absolutely maddening times, after all. But what we put out in the world is another matter, just as it is with all poems. Political, or "socially engaged" work is no different. ** Sarah Browning Co-Director Split This Rock Poetry Festival c/o Institute for Policy Studies 1112 16th Street, NW, Suite 600 Washington, DC 20036 browning@splitthisrock.org www.splitthisrock.org 202-787-5210 _____ From: new-poetry-bounces@wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto:new-poetry-bounces@wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Halvard Johnson Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 2008 10:55 AM To: NewPoetry: & Views Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] What I witnessed Just so. As for me, I always write only the best work I am capable of. Hal "Oil separation is natural." --Anon. Halvard Johnson ================ halvard@earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html On Jul 2, 2008, at 9:13 AM, browning wrote: So we just have to be good readers/critics, as always. And as poets, we should apply our highest standards to all our poems, as always. ** Sarah Browning Co-Director Split This Rock Poetry Festival c/o Institute for Policy Studies 1112 16th Street, NW, Suite 600 Washington, DC 20036 browning@splitthisrock.org www.splitthisrock.org 202-787-5210 _____ From: new-poetry-bounces@wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto:new-poetry-bounces@wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of John Jeffrey Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 2008 10:08 AM To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] What I witnessed -- "Now, was that applause for me, for the poem, or for the sentiments in the poem? You know, applause can be so ambiguous." THAT is what (at least) I am talking about, that sentiment makes many people raise their opinion of a poem, praising flabby, bland poems to the status of "powerful" if they agree with the point of view put forward by the poet. John Jeffrey --- On Wed, 7/2/08, David Graham wrote: From: David Graham Subject: [New-Poetry] What I witnessed To: "new-poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu & Views" Date: Wednesday, July 2, 2008, 9:00 AM I haven't read CD Wright's book & have no opinion on it as poetry, journalism, or anything else. I confess her work has left me cold for some time, but I also haven't kept up with it. The Poetry Of Witness, though, is a phrase that I find interesting, in part because of its basic ambiguity, coupled with the fervor with which it often is deployed, both by fans and by skeptics. Back in the late 1970s I witnessed a wonderful moment at a reading given by Robert Francis. This would have been inAmherst, Massachusetts, at the Jones Library. After reading a number of his charming, simple-seeming lyrics to the polite murmurs of the audience, Francis then recited a fairly strident anti-war poem--to enthusiastic applause. The poet stood there, looking quizzical for a long moment (I am aware how studied his performance may have been), waiting for the applause to subside into smug silence. Then he very delicately inquired, "Now, was that applause for me, for the poem, or for the sentiments in the poem? You know, applause can be so ambiguous." ======================================== David Graham grahamd@ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.mac.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080702/1858c9e4/attachment.html From grahamd at ripon.edu Wed Jul 2 11:07:23 2008 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:17 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: What I witnessed In-Reply-To: <183F234B-B0A8-4093-A266-8705EF119C89@earthlink.net> References: <9625B832-C07F-4D86-8345-B54334E099DB@ripon.edu> <183F234B-B0A8-4093-A266-8705EF119C89@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <0B074E57-CB9F-4737-A230-4E486ECC1318@ripon.edu> > Talk about looking a gift horse in the mouth. > > Hal =============== I'd be more inclined to call it a case of poetic humility. Rare, I know, and almost never seen in the wild anymore. . . . Robert Francis was a sly & refreshing old coot. His autobiography, after all, is titled *The Trouble With Francis*--in response to a critic who had asserted that the trouble with Francis is not that he was a happy poet, but that his happiness "lacked weight." As William Logan is happy to demonstrate regularly, critical obtuseness will always be with us. ======================================== David Graham grahamd@ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.mac.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== On Jul 2, 2008, at 9:51 AM, Halvard Johnson wrote: > On Jul 2, 2008, at 8:00 AM, David Graham wrote: > >> Back in the late 1970s I witnessed a wonderful moment at a reading >> given by Robert Francis. This would have been in Amherst, >> Massachusetts, at the Jones Library. After reading a number of >> his charming, simple-seeming lyrics to the polite murmurs of the >> audience, Francis then recited a fairly strident anti-war poem--to >> enthusiastic applause. >> >> The poet stood there, looking quizzical for a long moment (I am >> aware how studied his performance may have been), waiting for the >> applause to subside into smug silence. Then he very delicately >> inquired, "Now, was that applause for me, for the poem, or for the >> sentiments in the poem? You know, applause can be so ambiguous." > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080702/c3618d5c/attachment.html From brainboltpoet at gmail.com Wed Jul 2 11:12:22 2008 From: brainboltpoet at gmail.com (Beverly Rainbolt) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:17 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] CD Wright's body count In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5513eaa0807020812h3f88349asc29598bc5b19f245@mail.gmail.com> Wow. Kind of makes you wonder what the poems are going for. 2008/7/2 : > http://edelmangallery.com/lusterp.htm > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080702/e88f3444/attachment.html From rog3r.day at gmail.com Wed Jul 2 11:20:31 2008 From: rog3r.day at gmail.com (Roger Day) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:17 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] CD Wright's body count In-Reply-To: <5513eaa0807020812h3f88349asc29598bc5b19f245@mail.gmail.com> References: <5513eaa0807020812h3f88349asc29598bc5b19f245@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Do people actually *buy* poems like they do photographs? I don't think so. Roger On 7/2/08, Beverly Rainbolt wrote: > Wow. Kind of makes you wonder what the poems are going for. > > 2008/7/2 : > > http://edelmangallery.com/lusterp.htm > > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- My Stuff: http://www.badstep.net/ "I began to warm and chill to objects and their fields" Nick Cave & The Bad Seeds From brainboltpoet at gmail.com Wed Jul 2 11:45:03 2008 From: brainboltpoet at gmail.com (Beverly Rainbolt) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:17 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] CD Wright's body count In-Reply-To: References: <5513eaa0807020812h3f88349asc29598bc5b19f245@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <5513eaa0807020845g35ceef1dk99bba56b53d5e2f6@mail.gmail.com> Uhmmm, that was a joke. On Wed, Jul 2, 2008 at 10:20 AM, Roger Day wrote: > Do people actually *buy* poems like they do photographs? I don't think so. > Roger > > On 7/2/08, Beverly Rainbolt wrote: > > Wow. Kind of makes you wonder what the poems are going for. > > > > 2008/7/2 : > > > http://edelmangallery.com/lusterp.htm > > > _______________________________________________ > > > New-Poetry mailing list > > > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > > > -- > My Stuff: http://www.badstep.net/ > "I began to warm and chill > to objects and their fields" > Nick Cave & The Bad Seeds > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080702/2ede9f0e/attachment.html From rog3r.day at gmail.com Wed Jul 2 11:45:42 2008 From: rog3r.day at gmail.com (Roger Day) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:17 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] CD Wright's body count In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: In the UK, you'd be on a sticky wicket morally if you re-imburse prisoners for being, well, prisoners. There might well be a state or federal law *against* prisoners making money out of their status as prisoners. In the UK, I think it's the case that prisoners cannot make money out of selling their life-stories to newspapers. Roger On 7/2/08, Rsgwynn1@cs.com wrote: > http://edelmangallery.com/lusterp.htm > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- My Stuff: http://www.badstep.net/ "I began to warm and chill to objects and their fields" Nick Cave & The Bad Seeds From chris.lott at gmail.com Wed Jul 2 12:02:25 2008 From: chris.lott at gmail.com (Chris Lott) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:17 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] What I witnessed In-Reply-To: <965766.97200.qm@web54101.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <9625B832-C07F-4D86-8345-B54334E099DB@ripon.edu> <965766.97200.qm@web54101.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <9b1b9dab0807020902q28a39ae4k2fcdc48af4d1e75e@mail.gmail.com> On Wed, Jul 2, 2008 at 06:07, John Jeffrey wrote: > > -- "Now, was that applause for me, for the poem, or for the sentiments in > the poem? You know, applause can be so ambiguous." > > THAT is what (at least) I am talking about, that sentiment makes many people > raise their opinion of a poem, praising flabby, bland poems to the status of > "powerful" if they agree with the point of view put forward by the poet. No doubt. But the complications are obvious: bad poems can still do good things... and denigrating good poems because one *doesn't* agree with the position being taken is at least as common as artificially elevating them (when anyone cares at all). Then again, past a pretty basic level, I'm not at all sure that aesthetic appraisal-- as relative and individual as it is-- can really be so neatly disentangled from other cultural and philosophical understanding. I've only seen three poems (one of them incomplete) from this book by Wright, but none of them struck me as bland and flabby. On the other hand, I lost all credibility in not being entranced by much of O'Hara. And I have an inordinate number of family members who have been in the prison system (and some who still are) so, for reasons stated above, my view comes from a different place than some others. The implication in some of the discussion is that I should be more sensitive to "exploitation" because of that.. .and I think I am, but then we get back to the fact that even bad poems can do good things, like giving a problem most constantly and happily ignore even a little exposure. c From halvard at earthlink.net Wed Jul 2 12:16:45 2008 From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:17 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] CD Wright's body count In-Reply-To: References: <5513eaa0807020812h3f88349asc29598bc5b19f245@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <8867A416-201B-4624-9AF8-2AD1EEDB9617@earthlink.net> There's a guy in NYC who sets up a table on streetcorners, sits down behind a typewriter and types poems, which he sells for a buck apiece. I think he throws in some chit-chat at no extra charge. Hal "bondo nuck your lingol thrip" --John M. Bennett Halvard Johnson ================ halvard@earthlink.net halvard@gmail.com http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html On Jul 2, 2008, at 10:20 AM, Roger Day wrote: > Do people actually *buy* poems like they do photographs? I don't > think so. > Roger > > On 7/2/08, Beverly Rainbolt wrote: >> Wow. Kind of makes you wonder what the poems are going for. >> >> 2008/7/2 : >>> http://edelmangallery.com/lusterp.htm >>> _______________________________________________ >>> New-Poetry mailing list >>> New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu >>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>> >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > > > -- > My Stuff: http://www.badstep.net/ > "I began to warm and chill > to objects and their fields" > Nick Cave & The Bad Seeds > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Wed Jul 2 13:36:57 2008 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:17 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] CD Wright's body count In-Reply-To: References: <8CAA9ECC0F7CD33-F9C-175B@FWM-D18.sysops.aol.com><486B6397.2010407@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <486BBCB9.8080704@nut-n-but.net> Roger Day wrote: > "politically correct": the lowest denominator of criticism these days. > Something you don't like? It's a descriptive term whose meaning everyone knows, Roger. > Why, it's "politically correct". I call > bullshit on this. I don't think CD Wright - or any other poet in any > other academy - is living high on the hog. > > Roger > Am I wrong in believing she has recently gotten at least one substantial monetary award from some bastion of political correctness or other? I strongly suspect she gets more money for a single reading than any ten of the poets in my group (many of them also politically correct but much better poets than Wright) have gotten for all their readings combined. --Bob G. From Opus40-01 at opus40.org Wed Jul 2 12:54:29 2008 From: Opus40-01 at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:17 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] CD Wright's body count In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <486BB2C5.7080705@opus40.org> When I taught in the NYS prison system, I was doing a class in public speaking, and I assigned a persuasive speech -- standard assignment. One guy gave a speech advocating the opening of factories in prison, where the inmates could work for pay. During the question-and-answer session after the speech, the rest of the class ripped into him mercilessly. They all thought it was a horrible idea -- "You're encouraging people to commit crimes so they can go to prison and get a job." I let it go on for a whole, because I thought it was a good lesson we could talk about after -- what do you do when you really misjudge an audience and your speech goes totally wrong. I asked the class afte -- "Why the strong reaction?" They said, "We don't identify ourselves as prisoners. This isn't our life -- that's why we're taking college courses to prepare for our future. If you gave this speech to a bunch of lifers, you might get a different response." Roger Day wrote: > In the UK, you'd be on a sticky wicket morally if you re-imburse > prisoners for being, well, prisoners. There might well be a state or > federal law *against* prisoners making money out of their status as > prisoners. In the UK, I think it's the case that prisoners cannot make > money out of selling their life-stories to newspapers. > > Roger > > On 7/2/08, Rsgwynn1@cs.com wrote: >> http://edelmangallery.com/lusterp.htm >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > > -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ The moral is this: in American verse, The better you are, the pay is worse. --Corey Ford From Opus40-01 at opus40.org Wed Jul 2 12:58:28 2008 From: Opus40-01 at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:17 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] What I witnessed In-Reply-To: <9b1b9dab0807020902q28a39ae4k2fcdc48af4d1e75e@mail.gmail.com> References: <9625B832-C07F-4D86-8345-B54334E099DB@ripon.edu> <965766.97200.qm@web54101.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <9b1b9dab0807020902q28a39ae4k2fcdc48af4d1e75e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <486BB3B4.9040700@opus40.org> There's no one standard for what makes a good poem, and we don't know we're right. Maybe Maya Angelou's flabby poetry of witness will be read 200 years from now as the defining work of our time, and -- hard as it is to believe -- Aram Saroyan won't be remembered vividly. Or Ashbery, or Levine, or Jorie Graham Chris Lott wrote: > On Wed, Jul 2, 2008 at 06:07, John Jeffrey wrote: >> -- "Now, was that applause for me, for the poem, or for the sentiments in >> the poem? You know, applause can be so ambiguous." >> >> THAT is what (at least) I am talking about, that sentiment makes many people >> raise their opinion of a poem, praising flabby, bland poems to the status of >> "powerful" if they agree with the point of view put forward by the poet. > > No doubt. But the complications are obvious: bad poems can still do > good things... and denigrating good poems because one *doesn't* agree > with the position being taken is at least as common as artificially > elevating them (when anyone cares at all). Then again, past a pretty > basic level, I'm not at all sure that aesthetic appraisal-- as > relative and individual as it is-- can really be so neatly > disentangled from other cultural and philosophical understanding. > > I've only seen three poems (one of them incomplete) from this book by > Wright, but none of them struck me as bland and flabby. On the other > hand, I lost all credibility in not being entranced by much of O'Hara. > And I have an inordinate number of family members who have been in the > prison system (and some who still are) so, for reasons stated above, > my view comes from a different place than some others. The implication > in some of the discussion is that I should be more sensitive to > "exploitation" because of that.. .and I think I am, but then we get > back to the fact that even bad poems can do good things, like giving a > problem most constantly and happily ignore even a little exposure. > > c > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ The moral is this: in American verse, The better you are, the pay is worse. --Corey Ford From jjeffreymail at yahoo.com Wed Jul 2 13:11:28 2008 From: jjeffreymail at yahoo.com (John Jeffrey) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:17 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] What I witnessed In-Reply-To: <486BB3B4.9040700@opus40.org> Message-ID: <739944.87064.qm@web54110.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Now I'm depressed. --- On Wed, 7/2/08, TheOldMole wrote: From: TheOldMole Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] What I witnessed To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views" Date: Wednesday, July 2, 2008, 12:58 PM There's no one standard for what makes a good poem, and we don't know we're right. Maybe Maya Angelou's flabby poetry of witness will be read 200 years from now as the defining work of our time, and -- hard as it is to believe -- Aram Saroyan won't be remembered vividly. Or Ashbery, or Levine, or Jorie Graham Chris Lott wrote: > On Wed, Jul 2, 2008 at 06:07, John Jeffrey wrote: >> -- "Now, was that applause for me, for the poem, or for the sentiments in >> the poem? You know, applause can be so ambiguous." >> >> THAT is what (at least) I am talking about, that sentiment makes many people >> raise their opinion of a poem, praising flabby, bland poems to the status of >> "powerful" if they agree with the point of view put forward by the poet. > > No doubt. But the complications are obvious: bad poems can still do > good things... and denigrating good poems because one *doesn't* agree > with the position being taken is at least as common as artificially > elevating them (when anyone cares at all). Then again, past a pretty > basic level, I'm not at all sure that aesthetic appraisal-- as > relative and individual as it is-- can really be so neatly > disentangled from other cultural and philosophical understanding. > > I've only seen three poems (one of them incomplete) from this book by > Wright, but none of them struck me as bland and flabby. On the other > hand, I lost all credibility in not being entranced by much of O'Hara. > And I have an inordinate number of family members who have been in the > prison system (and some who still are) so, for reasons stated above, > my view comes from a different place than some others. The implication > in some of the discussion is that I should be more sensitive to > "exploitation" because of that.. .and I think I am, but then we get > back to the fact that even bad poems can do good things, like giving a > problem most constantly and happily ignore even a little exposure. > > c > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ The moral is this: in American verse, The better you are, the pay is worse. --Corey Ford _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080702/402dc5a6/attachment.html From AlMaginnes at aol.com Wed Jul 2 13:38:08 2008 From: AlMaginnes at aol.com (AlMaginnes@aol.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:17 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] CD Wright's body count Message-ID: The book from Copper Canyon is $15. **************Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for fuel-efficient used cars. (http://autos.aol.com/used?ncid=aolaut00050000000007) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080702/0b909fbe/attachment.html From rog3r.day at gmail.com Wed Jul 2 14:10:03 2008 From: rog3r.day at gmail.com (Roger Day) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:17 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] CD Wright's body count In-Reply-To: <486BB2C5.7080705@opus40.org> References: <486BB2C5.7080705@opus40.org> Message-ID: I think there used to be deemed some moral purpose in hard labour. I think not. I hadn't thought about it that way - going to jail just to get a job. Not nice. The furore out of prisoners earning money out of their status was one blown up by the right-wing press in this country. Roger On Wed, Jul 2, 2008 at 5:54 PM, TheOldMole wrote: > When I taught in the NYS prison system, I was doing a class in public > speaking, and I assigned a persuasive speech -- standard assignment. One guy > gave a speech advocating the opening of factories in prison, where the > inmates could work for pay. During the question-and-answer session after the > speech, the rest of the class ripped into him mercilessly. They all thought > it was a horrible idea -- "You're encouraging people to commit crimes so > they can go to prison and get a job." I let it go on for a whole, because I > thought it was a good lesson we could talk about after -- what do you do > when you really misjudge an audience and your speech goes totally wrong. I > asked the class afte -- "Why the strong reaction?" They said, "We don't > identify ourselves as prisoners. This isn't our life -- that's why we're > taking college courses to prepare for our future. If you gave this speech to > a bunch of lifers, you might get a different response." > > Roger Day wrote: >> >> In the UK, you'd be on a sticky wicket morally if you re-imburse >> prisoners for being, well, prisoners. There might well be a state or >> federal law *against* prisoners making money out of their status as >> prisoners. In the UK, I think it's the case that prisoners cannot make >> money out of selling their life-stories to newspapers. >> >> Roger >> >> On 7/2/08, Rsgwynn1@cs.com wrote: >>> >>> http://edelmangallery.com/lusterp.htm >>> _______________________________________________ >>> New-Poetry mailing list >>> New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu >>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>> >>> >> >> > > -- > Tad Richards > http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ > http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ > > The moral is this: in American verse, > The better you are, the pay is worse. > --Corey Ford > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- My Stuff: http://www.badstep.net/ "I began to warm and chill to objects and their fields" Nick Cave & The Bad Seeds From rog3r.day at gmail.com Wed Jul 2 14:14:04 2008 From: rog3r.day at gmail.com (Roger Day) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:17 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] CD Wright's body count In-Reply-To: <486BBCB9.8080704@nut-n-but.net> References: <8CAA9ECC0F7CD33-F9C-175B@FWM-D18.sysops.aol.com> <486B6397.2010407@nut-n-but.net> <486BBCB9.8080704@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: It's lazy rhetoric, Robert. I thought you would have known better. It just displays your prejudice. CD Wright went for the money and got it. More power to her elbow. Doubtless she has dependancies to look after, as do we all. I'm currently looking at scholarships to try and go to Art School. Doubtless there are better artists out there than me. Let them compete, as I will do. Roger On Wed, Jul 2, 2008 at 6:36 PM, Bob Grumman wrote: > > > Roger Day wrote: >> >> "politically correct": the lowest denominator of criticism these days. >> Something you don't like? > > It's a descriptive term whose meaning everyone knows, Roger. > > >> Why, it's "politically correct". I call >> bullshit on this. I don't think CD Wright - or any other poet in any >> other academy - is living high on the hog. >> >> Roger >> > Am I wrong in believing she has recently gotten at least one substantial > monetary award from some bastion of political correctness or other? I > strongly suspect she gets more money for a single reading than any ten of > the poets in my group (many of them also politically correct but much better > poets than Wright) have gotten for all their readings combined. > > --Bob G. > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- My Stuff: http://www.badstep.net/ "I began to warm and chill to objects and their fields" Nick Cave & The Bad Seeds From rog3r.day at gmail.com Wed Jul 2 14:15:07 2008 From: rog3r.day at gmail.com (Roger Day) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:18 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] CD Wright's body count In-Reply-To: <5513eaa0807020845g35ceef1dk99bba56b53d5e2f6@mail.gmail.com> References: <5513eaa0807020812h3f88349asc29598bc5b19f245@mail.gmail.com> <5513eaa0807020845g35ceef1dk99bba56b53d5e2f6@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Sorry. I was shooting from the hip. Not always advisable when writing emails. Roger On Wed, Jul 2, 2008 at 4:45 PM, Beverly Rainbolt wrote: > Uhmmm, that was a joke. > > On Wed, Jul 2, 2008 at 10:20 AM, Roger Day wrote: >> >> Do people actually *buy* poems like they do photographs? I don't think so. >> Roger >> >> On 7/2/08, Beverly Rainbolt wrote: >> > Wow. Kind of makes you wonder what the poems are going for. >> > >> > 2008/7/2 : >> > > http://edelmangallery.com/lusterp.htm >> > > _______________________________________________ >> > > New-Poetry mailing list >> > > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu >> > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> > > >> > > >> > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > New-Poetry mailing list >> > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu >> > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> > >> > >> >> >> -- >> My Stuff: http://www.badstep.net/ >> "I began to warm and chill >> to objects and their fields" >> Nick Cave & The Bad Seeds >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- My Stuff: http://www.badstep.net/ "I began to warm and chill to objects and their fields" Nick Cave & The Bad Seeds From skip at louisiana.edu Wed Jul 2 15:25:44 2008 From: skip at louisiana.edu (Skip Fox) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:18 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] CD Wright's body count In-Reply-To: <8CAA9EABA95FAE5-18F0-25C3@webmail-nb19.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <8F5C2AB834A945F7BACD5715074AE486@win.louisiana.edu> Good work is good work. If someone's into exploiting others, he or she is not usually doing good work. If he or she both exploits and creates good work, then should we attack the work or the person for the exploitation? C.D. Wright is not only exploiting no one but doing amazingly good work as well. (One wonders, sometimes, what the real issue is.) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080702/0b8cf5c4/attachment.html From amyhappens at yahoo.com Wed Jul 2 16:15:57 2008 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:18 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Goodreads' Poetry Group In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <193748.3263.qm@web83307.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Dear Poets, If you are a member of Goodreads (similar to LibraryThing), consider joining the Poetry Group there: http://www.goodreads.com/group/show/233._POETRY_ The group includes a number of discussions -- INTRODUCTIONS ~~~ MY BOOK / POEM IS PUBLISHED! ~~~ ADVICE - QUESTION FOR YA! ~~~ I APPRECIATE POETRY CRITIQUE ~~~ YOU?VE GOTTA READ THIS POEM! ~~~ CALLS FOR WORK - SUBMIT! ~~~ POETRY WRITING SUGGESTIONS ~~~ PLEASE HELP ~~~ RECOMMENDED BOOKS ~~~ POETRY REVIEWS ~~~ FUN STUFF ~~~ We now have a total of 781 Goodreads? members, so if you?re down with discussions that fall under the above headings, join the gang! Best, Amy _______ Recent http://www.tarpaulinsky.com/Reviews/kiss-me.html http://jacketmagazine.com/34/dickow-king.shtml Alias http://www.amyking.org Your Suggestions http://amyking.wordpress.com/2008/06/12/poetry-exercises-wanted/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080702/9c6b7128/attachment.html From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Wed Jul 2 18:25:57 2008 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:18 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] CD Wright's body count In-Reply-To: References: <8CAA9ECC0F7CD33-F9C-175B@FWM-D18.sysops.aol.com><486B6397.2010407@nut-n-but.net><486BBCB9.8080704@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <486C0075.8000708@nut-n-but.net> Roger Day wrote: > It's lazy rhetoric, Robert. I thought you would have known better. It > just displays your prejudice. > What's a better term for describing one whose political opinions are the same as, Nancy Pelosi's, say? > CD Wright went for the money and got it. More power to her elbow. > Doubtless she has dependancies to look after, as do we all. > Agreed, Roger. But I was responding to the argument that her "poetry of witness" was not making her big bucks, that's all. > I'm currently looking at scholarships to try and go to Art School. > Doubtless there are better artists out there than me. Let them > compete, as I will do. > > Roger Sure, but compete as what: advocates of what I call political correctness, or as artists? In this case, I imagine the latter, since the position of student isn't as socially important as the office of member of the Society of American Poets or the like. --Bob From jforjames at aol.com Wed Jul 2 18:32:12 2008 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames@aol.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:18 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] CD Wright's body count In-Reply-To: <5513eaa0807020812h3f88349asc29598bc5b19f245@mail.gmail.com> References: <5513eaa0807020812h3f88349asc29598bc5b19f245@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <8CAAAAA9AA62B58-75C-123B@WEBMAIL-DC06.sysops.aol.com> That's not a lot unless you sell a lot. Galleries close all the time for want of sales. A few artists make it big...but most, like most poets, make ends meeting teaching, doing workshops, etc.?Galleries, good ones, ones that can really sell their stock, take 40% or more. With each sale the artist is often recovering cost of materials, equipment (costly in photograhy), mounting & framing, sudio rental, etc. And time planning, developing and executing the work.?I ?hope Luster is one of the lucky ones. Her work strikes me as strong (and her 'sentiments' are in the right place). Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: Beverly Rainbolt Sent: Wed, 2 Jul 2008 11:12 am Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] CD Wright's body count Wow. Kind of makes you wonder what the poems are going for. 2008/7/2 : http://edelmangallery.com/lusterp.htm _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080702/5b3a5539/attachment.html From Opus40-01 at opus40.org Wed Jul 2 20:32:39 2008 From: Opus40-01 at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:18 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] CD Wright's body count In-Reply-To: References: <5513eaa0807020812h3f88349asc29598bc5b19f245@mail.gmail.com> <5513eaa0807020845g35ceef1dk99bba56b53d5e2f6@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <486C1E27.70804@opus40.org> David Ferguson used to sell them in the same way. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=680Pn_jXBfc Roger Day wrote: > Sorry. I was shooting from the hip. Not always advisable when writing emails. > > Roger > > On Wed, Jul 2, 2008 at 4:45 PM, Beverly Rainbolt > wrote: > >> Uhmmm, that was a joke. >> >> On Wed, Jul 2, 2008 at 10:20 AM, Roger Day wrote: >> >>> Do people actually *buy* poems like they do photographs? I don't think so. >>> Roger >>> >>> On 7/2/08, Beverly Rainbolt wrote: >>> >>>> Wow. Kind of makes you wonder what the poems are going for. >>>> >>>> 2008/7/2 : >>>> >>>>> http://edelmangallery.com/lusterp.htm >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> New-Poetry mailing list >>>>> New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu >>>>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> New-Poetry mailing list >>>> New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu >>>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> -- >>> My Stuff: http://www.badstep.net/ >>> "I began to warm and chill >>> to objects and their fields" >>> Nick Cave & The Bad Seeds >>> _______________________________________________ >>> New-Poetry mailing list >>> New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu >>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> >> > > > > -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ The moral is this: in American verse, The better you are, the pay is worse. --Corey Ford From Opus40-01 at opus40.org Wed Jul 2 21:37:10 2008 From: Opus40-01 at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:18 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] What I witnessed In-Reply-To: <739944.87064.qm@web54110.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <739944.87064.qm@web54110.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <486C2D46.6070704@opus40.org> You think that's depressing -- consider that all this is pretty much what was said about Keats -- flabby poetry, wouldn't have been published at all if it weren't spouting politically correct Leigh Hunt liberalism. John Jeffrey wrote: > Now I'm depressed. > > > > --- On *Wed, 7/2/08, TheOldMole //* wrote: > > From: TheOldMole > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] What I witnessed > To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views" > > Date: Wednesday, July 2, 2008, 12:58 PM > > There's no one standard for what makes a good poem, and we don't know > we're right. Maybe Maya Angelou's flabby poetry of witness will be read > > 200 years from now as the defining work of our time, and -- hard as it > is to believe -- Aram Saroyan won't be remembered vividly. Or Ashbery, > or Levine, or Jorie Graham > > Chris Lott wrote: > > On Wed, Jul 2, 2008 at 06:07, John Jeffrey > > wrote: > >> -- "Now, was that applause for me, for the poem, or for the > sentiments in > >> the poem? You know, applause can be so ambiguous." > >> > >> THAT is what (at least) I am talking about, that sentiment makes many > people > >> raise their opinion of a poem, praising flabby, bland poems to the > status of > >> "powerful" if they agree with the point of view put forward > by the poet. > > > > No doubt. But the complications are obvious: bad poems can still do > > good things... and denigrating good poems because one *doesn't* agree > > with the position being taken is at least as common as artificially > > elevating them (when anyone cares at all). Then again, past a pretty > > basic level, I'm not at all sure that aesthetic appraisal-- as > > relative and individual as it is-- can really be so neatly > > disentangled from other > cultural and philosophical understanding. > > > > I've only seen three poems (one of them incomplete) from this book by > > Wright, but none of them struck me as bland and flabby. On the other > > hand, I lost all credibility in not being entranced by much of O'Hara. > > And I have an inordinate number of family members who have been in the > > prison system (and some who still are) so, for reasons stated above, > > my view comes from a different place than some others. The implication > > in some of the discussion is that I should be more sensitive to > > "exploitation" because of that.. .and I think I am, but then we > get > > back to the fact that even bad poems can do good things, like giving a > > problem most constantly and happily ignore even a little exposure. > > > > c > > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > -- > Tad Richards > http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ > http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ > > The moral is this: in American verse, > The better you are, the pay is worse. > --Corey Ford > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ The moral is this: in American verse, The better you are, the pay is worse. --Corey Ford From Opus40-01 at opus40.org Wed Jul 2 21:37:59 2008 From: Opus40-01 at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:18 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] What I witnessed In-Reply-To: <739944.87064.qm@web54110.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <739944.87064.qm@web54110.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <486C2D77.9010307@opus40.org> http://www.newyorker.com/arts/critics/books/2008/07/07/080707crbo_books_kirsch?currentPage=all John Jeffrey wrote: > Now I'm depressed. > > > > --- On *Wed, 7/2/08, TheOldMole //* wrote: > > From: TheOldMole > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] What I witnessed > To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views" > > Date: Wednesday, July 2, 2008, 12:58 PM > > There's no one standard for what makes a good poem, and we don't know > we're right. Maybe Maya Angelou's flabby poetry of witness will be read > > 200 years from now as the defining work of our time, and -- hard as it > is to believe -- Aram Saroyan won't be remembered vividly. Or Ashbery, > or Levine, or Jorie Graham > > Chris Lott wrote: > > On Wed, Jul 2, 2008 at 06:07, John Jeffrey > > wrote: > >> -- "Now, was that applause for me, for the poem, or for the > sentiments in > >> the poem? You know, applause can be so ambiguous." > >> > >> THAT is what (at least) I am talking about, that sentiment makes many > people > >> raise their opinion of a poem, praising flabby, bland poems to the > status of > >> "powerful" if they agree with the point of view put forward > by the poet. > > > > No doubt. But the complications are obvious: bad poems can still do > > good things... and denigrating good poems because one *doesn't* agree > > with the position being taken is at least as common as artificially > > elevating them (when anyone cares at all). Then again, past a pretty > > basic level, I'm not at all sure that aesthetic appraisal-- as > > relative and individual as it is-- can really be so neatly > > disentangled from other > cultural and philosophical understanding. > > > > I've only seen three poems (one of them incomplete) from this book by > > Wright, but none of them struck me as bland and flabby. On the other > > hand, I lost all credibility in not being entranced by much of O'Hara. > > And I have an inordinate number of family members who have been in the > > prison system (and some who still are) so, for reasons stated above, > > my view comes from a different place than some others. The implication > > in some of the discussion is that I should be more sensitive to > > "exploitation" because of that.. .and I think I am, but then we > get > > back to the fact that even bad poems can do good things, like giving a > > problem most constantly and happily ignore even a little exposure. > > > > c > > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > -- > Tad Richards > http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ > http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ > > The moral is this: in American verse, > The better you are, the pay is worse. > --Corey Ford > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ The moral is this: in American verse, The better you are, the pay is worse. --Corey Ford From jjeffreymail at yahoo.com Wed Jul 2 22:36:02 2008 From: jjeffreymail at yahoo.com (John Jeffrey) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:18 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] What I witnessed Message-ID: <876228.94154.qm@web54109.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Hmmm. So let's see if there's any transitive relation here: 1) Angelou's poetry is flabby and critical attacked, 2) Keats' poetry was flabby and critical attacked, 3) therefore Angelou = Keats. ----- Original Message ---- From: TheOldMole To: jjeffreymail@yahoo.com; "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views" Sent: Wednesday, July 2, 2008 9:37:10 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] What I witnessed You think that's depressing -- consider that all this is pretty much what was said about Keats -- flabby poetry, wouldn't have been published at all if it weren't spouting politically correct Leigh Hunt liberalism. John Jeffrey wrote: > Now I'm depressed. > > > > --- On *Wed, 7/2/08, TheOldMole //* wrote: > > From: TheOldMole > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] What I witnessed > To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views" > > Date: Wednesday, July 2, 2008, 12:58 PM > > There's no one standard for what makes a good poem, and we don't know > we're right. Maybe Maya Angelou's flabby poetry of witness will be read > > 200 years from now as the defining work of our time, and -- hard as it > is to believe -- Aram Saroyan won't be remembered vividly. Or Ashbery, > or Levine, or Jorie Graham > > Chris Lott wrote: > > On Wed, Jul 2, 2008 at 06:07, John Jeffrey > > wrote: > >> -- "Now, was that applause for me, for the poem, or for the > sentiments in > >> the poem? You know, applause can be so ambiguous." > >> > >> THAT is what (at least) I am talking about, that sentiment makes many > people > >> raise their opinion of a poem, praising flabby, bland poems to the > status of > >> "powerful" if they agree with the point of view put forward > by the poet. > > > > No doubt. But the complications are obvious: bad poems can still do > > good things... and denigrating good poems because one *doesn't* agree > > with the position being taken is at least as common as artificially > > elevating them (when anyone cares at all). Then again, past a pretty > > basic level, I'm not at all sure that aesthetic appraisal-- as > > relative and individual as it is-- can really be so neatly > > disentangled from other > cultural and philosophical understanding. > > > > I've only seen three poems (one of them incomplete) from this book by > > Wright, but none of them struck me as bland and flabby. On the other > > hand, I lost all credibility in not being entranced by much of O'Hara. > > And I have an inordinate number of family members who have been in the > > prison system (and some who still are) so, for reasons stated above, > > my view comes from a different place than some others. The implication > > in some of the discussion is that I should be more sensitive to > > "exploitation" because of that.. .and I think I am, but then we > get > > back to the fact that even bad poems can do good things, like giving a > > problem most constantly and happily ignore even a little exposure. > > > > c > > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > -- > Tad Richards > http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ > http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ > > The moral is this: in American verse, > The better you are, the pay is worse. > --Corey Ford > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ The moral is this: in American verse, The better you are, the pay is worse. --Corey Ford -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080702/f1a972e4/attachment.html From editor at pavementsaw.org Wed Jul 2 23:19:12 2008 From: editor at pavementsaw.org (David Baratier) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:18 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Transcontinental Poetry Award deadline 8/15/2008 In-Reply-To: <200807021252.m62CqfkG028861@wiz.cath.vt.edu> Message-ID: <666995.10595.qm@web45616.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> The Annual Transcontinental Poetry Award by Pavement Saw Press ? All contributors receive books, chapbooks and journals equal to, or more than, the entry fee. Please mention this to your friends and all others who might be interested! ? Electronic and mailed entries must meet these requirements: 1. The manuscript should be at least 48 pages of poetry and no more than 70 pages of poetry in length. Separations between sections are NOT a part of the page count. 2. A one page cover letter. Include a brief biography, the book's title, your name, address, and telephone number, and, if you have e-mail, your e-mail address. This should be followed by a page which lists publication acknowledgments for the book. For each acknowledgement mention the publisher (journal, anthology, chapbook etc.) and the poem published.? 3. The manuscript should be bound with a single clip and begin with a title page including the book's title, your name, address, and telephone number, and, if you have e-mail, your e-mail address. 4. The second page should have only the title of the manuscript. There are to be no acknowledgments or mention of the author's name from this page forward. Submissions to the contest are blind judged. 5. There should be no more than one poem on each page. The manuscript can contain pieces longer than one page. 6. The manuscript should be paginated, beginning with the first page of poetry. ? ? Each year Pavement Saw Press will publish at least one book of poetry and/or prose poems from manuscripts received during this competition. Selections are chosen through a blind judging process. The competition is open to anyone who has not previously published a volume of poetry or prose. The author receives $1000 and five percent of the 1000 copy press run. Previous judges have included Judith Vollmer, David Bromige, Bin Ramke and Howard McCord.. This year David Baratier will be the judge; past students, Pavement Saw Press interns and employees are not allowed to submit. All poems must be original, all prose must be original, fiction or translations are not acceptable. Writers who have had volumes of poetry and/or prose under 40 pages printed or printed in limited editions of no more than 500 copies are eligible. Submissions are accepted during the months of June, July, and until August 15th. All submissions must have an August 15th, 2008, or earlier, postmark. This is an award for first books only. ? If you wish to send via regular mail your manuscript should be accompanied by a check in the amount of $20.00 made payable to Pavement Saw Press. All US contributors to the contest will receive books, chapbooks and journals equal to, or more than, the entry fee. Add $3 ( US ) for other countries to cover the extra postal charge. Do not include an SASE for notification of results, this information will be sent with the free book. Do not send the only copy of your work. All manuscripts are recycled and individual comments on the manuscripts cannot be made. ? If you wish to submit electronically, you should send $27.00 via paypal to info@pavementsaw.org. We will then send you an e-mail confirmation as well as where to e-mail the manuscript. Electronic submissions need to be sent as PDF files or as word (.doc) files. Other formats are not accepted. The extra cost is to cover the paypal fees as well as the time, labor, ink, and so on, to print out your manuscript. In addition to the prize winner, sometimes another anonymous manuscript is chosen, if enough entries arrive. This ?editors choice? manuscript will be published under a standard royalty contract. A decision will be reached in November. Entries should be sent to: ? Pavement Saw Press Transcontinental Award Entry 321 Empire Street Montpelier, OH 43543 ? All submissions must have an August 15th, or earlier, postmark or paypal payment. Submissions are accepted during the months of June, July, and August only. If you have questions, please ask us: info@pavementsaw.org Be well David Baratier, Editor Pavement Saw Press 321 Empire Street Montpelier OH 43543 http://pavementsaw.org Subscribe to our e-mail listserv at http://pavementsaw.org/list/?p=subscribe&id=1 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080702/7df3924f/attachment.html From Rsgwynn1 at cs.com Wed Jul 2 23:57:32 2008 From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com (Rsgwynn1@cs.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:18 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] What I witnessed Message-ID: In a message dated 7/2/2008 9:36:41 PM Central Daylight Time, jjeffreymail@yahoo.com writes: > > Hmmm. So let's see if there's any transitive relation here: > > 1) Angelou's poetry is flabby and critical attacked, > 2) Keats' poetry was flabby and critical attacked, > 3) therefore Angelou = Keats. > > > > Undistributed middle term. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080702/89a20bff/attachment.html From chris.lott at gmail.com Thu Jul 3 00:48:14 2008 From: chris.lott at gmail.com (Chris Lott) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:18 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] What I witnessed In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <9b1b9dab0807022148s4c7cda44h40e1871ec9935fc9@mail.gmail.com> On Wed, Jul 2, 2008 at 19:57, wrote: > In a message dated 7/2/2008 9:36:41 PM Central Daylight Time, > jjeffreymail@yahoo.com writes: > > Hmmm. So let's see if there's any transitive relation here: > > 1) Angelou's poetry is flabby and critical attacked, > 2) Keats' poetry was flabby and critical attacked, > 3) therefore Angelou = Keats. > > Undistributed middle term. Is it really? I need to refresh my memory from logic class. Anyway, this gets right to the heart of the matter that will never be resolved. The "is" and "was" are the critical terms... and I'm sure the attackers of Keats were no more open to being persuaded than we who don't think Angelou is much of a poet are-- and they would likewise be just as shocked to find out they were "wrong" as we would be if we could last 100 or so more years to check... c From rog3r.day at gmail.com Thu Jul 3 02:21:21 2008 From: rog3r.day at gmail.com (Roger Day) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:18 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] CD Wright's body count In-Reply-To: <486C0075.8000708@nut-n-but.net> References: <8CAA9ECC0F7CD33-F9C-175B@FWM-D18.sysops.aol.com> <486B6397.2010407@nut-n-but.net> <486BBCB9.8080704@nut-n-but.net> <486C0075.8000708@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: If the terms of the competition are stated up-front, then I have no problem with that. It's only if the competition is skewed behind the scenes, then I do have a problem. I suspect a lot of women apply for jobs which appear to be open but which are in actually not. I've sat on selection boards for charities; people tend to select those candidates they like. Although I see you wear a tin-foil hat. Roger On Wed, Jul 2, 2008 at 11:25 PM, Bob Grumman wrote: > >> I'm currently looking at scholarships to try and go to Art School. >> Doubtless there are better artists out there than me. Let them >> compete, as I will do. >> >> Roger > > Sure, but compete as what: advocates of what I call political correctness, > or as artists? In this case, I imagine the latter, since the position of > student isn't as socially important as the office of member of the Society > of American Poets or the like. > > --Bob > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- My Stuff: http://www.badstep.net/ "I began to warm and chill to objects and their fields" Nick Cave & The Bad Seeds From Rsgwynn1 at cs.com Thu Jul 3 10:09:01 2008 From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com (Rsgwynn1@cs.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:18 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] What I witnessed Message-ID: In a message dated 7/2/2008 11:48:32 PM Central Daylight Time, chris.lott@gmail.com writes: > Anyway, this gets right to the heart of the matter that will never be > resolved. The "is" and "was" are the critical terms... and I'm sure > the attackers of Keats were no more open to being persuaded than we > who don't think Angelou is much of a poet are-- and they would > likewise be just as shocked to find out they were "wrong" as we would > be if we could last 100 or so more years to check... > > c History has treated lots of popular poets pretty badly--Shenstone, Cowley, Hunt, Amy Lowell et al. And sometimes the reverse happens as well. Keats wasn't without his champions, though. http://books.google.com/books?hl=en&id=7wDODci8tLYC& dq=keats+critical+heritage&printsec=frontcover&source=web&ots=E3rpF5INjD& sig=MGPAklZqZRZus3RTRfhccW6RZLo&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=6&ct=result#PPR8,M1 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080703/e25b155d/attachment.html From chris.lott at gmail.com Thu Jul 3 13:20:22 2008 From: chris.lott at gmail.com (Chris Lott) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:19 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] What I witnessed In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <9b1b9dab0807031020r4d8c8961udea300d431d762e4@mail.gmail.com> On Thu, Jul 3, 2008 at 06:09, wrote: > History has treated lots of popular poets pretty badly--Shenstone, Cowley, > Hunt, Amy Lowell et al. And sometimes the reverse happens as well. Keats > wasn't without his champions, though. > > http://books.google.com/books?hl=en&id=7wDODci8tLYC&dq=keats+critical+heritage&printsec=frontcover&source=web&ots=E3rpF5INjD&sig=MGPAklZqZRZus3RTRfhccW6RZLo&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=6&ct=result#PPR8,M1 > _______________________________________________ True, that. I don't know that anyone of Clare's stature is shilling for Maya Angelou either... c From atelierjewelweed at gmail.com Thu Jul 3 13:41:17 2008 From: atelierjewelweed at gmail.com (Suzanne Burns) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:19 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] CD Wright's body count In-Reply-To: <486BBCB9.8080704@nut-n-but.net> References: <8CAA9ECC0F7CD33-F9C-175B@FWM-D18.sysops.aol.com> <486B6397.2010407@nut-n-but.net> <486BBCB9.8080704@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: On Wed, Jul 2, 2008 at 1:36 PM, Bob Grumman wrote: > > > Roger Day wrote: > >> "politically correct": the lowest denominator of criticism these days. >> Something you don't like? >> > > It's a descriptive term whose meaning everyone knows, Roger. I disagree. It ceased to be a descriptive term a long, long time ago. What is became is a It's a great big rubber stamp one slaps down to dismiss, trivialize, and above all silence any discussion of a political or social issue (especially if it concerns women) one does not want to hear about. I too call bullshit. If you don't like CD Wrights work, fine, but please say something real. Suzanne Burns -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080703/7aded2c0/attachment.html From atelierjewelweed at gmail.com Thu Jul 3 13:49:29 2008 From: atelierjewelweed at gmail.com (Suzanne Burns) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:19 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] CD Wright's body count In-Reply-To: <8CAAAAA9AA62B58-75C-123B@WEBMAIL-DC06.sysops.aol.com> References: <5513eaa0807020812h3f88349asc29598bc5b19f245@mail.gmail.com> <8CAAAAA9AA62B58-75C-123B@WEBMAIL-DC06.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: On Wed, Jul 2, 2008 at 6:32 PM, wrote: > That's not a lot unless you sell a lot. Galleries close all the time for > want of sales. A few artists make it big...but most, like most poets, make > ends meeting teaching, doing workshops, etc. Galleries, good ones, ones that > can really sell their stock, take 40% or more. With each sale the artist is > often recovering cost of materials, equipment (costly in photograhy), > mounting & framing, sudio rental, etc. And time planning, developing and > executing the work. I > hope Luster is one of the lucky ones. Her work strikes me as strong (and > her 'sentiments' are in the right place). > Finnegan I really love these photographs and feel the same way. And thank you Jim for pointing out how this really works for the artist-- After you subtract materials and everything else you have listed, factor in the cut taken by the gallery and then divide what is left over by the TIME the artist spent developing the idea abd work through to find the right image and then actually finish the work.... It's nothing. NOTH-ING. The artist also takes all the risk. They have to front all the materials and time AND take the risk that nobody will buy the work in the end. Bottom line: for most fine artists it really is not at all about the money. I have this conversation often with a members of my extended family who are shocked-- SHOCKED!-- at how much money I paid for a painting once. Some people really do not get how much work and time goes into something like this. Yeah, I bought a painting instead of a sofa. Big whup. That to me sounds like smart and sensible thing to do. Who needs a sofa? Suzanne Burns -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080703/f8921222/attachment.html From amyhappens at yahoo.com Thu Jul 3 16:18:21 2008 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:19 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] The Stain of Poetry -- July 25th and Beyond In-Reply-To: <486C2D77.9010307@opus40.org> Message-ID: <948955.55880.qm@web83303.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Dear Poets and Poet-Tasters, We, The Stain of Poetry gatherers, have now finished organizing our smorgasboard of wholesome poets for the rest of the year here: http://thestainofpoetry.wordpress.com/. Please prepare to dine upon the lot, starting: July 25th @ 7 p.m. - Stain Bar - Williamsburg, Brooklyn ** Baker, Cordelli, Field, Need, Newton, and Tonelli** ~~~ Andrea Baker is the author of like wind loves a window (Slope Editions, 2005) and the chapbooks gilda (Poetry Society of America, 2004) and true poems about the river go like this (Cannibal Books, 2008). ~~~~ Phil Cordelli cleans lawns, carries on a love affair with the tuliptrees of Upper Manhattan that may not be carrying on for much longer now, and acts as a conduit for poetic impulses from the plant world. More on this as it develops. ~~~~ Farrah Field?s first book, Rising, is forthcoming in early 2009 by Four Way Books. Her poems have appeared in many publications such as the Mississippi Review, Margie, Chelsea, The Massachusetts Review, Typo, Harp & Altar, and are forthcoming in Pebble Lake Review, Another Chicago Magazine, Fulcrum, and 42Opus. She lives in Brooklyn. ~~~~ Originally from Massachusetts, David Need lives in Durham, NC and works as an instructor in the Religion Department at Duke, teaching classes on Buddhism, South Asian Religions, and Religion and Poetry. Recent and upcoming publications include several suites published in Fascicle 2 & 3, a translation/essay series on Rg Veda poetry in Talisman, an excerpt from ?Places I?ve Lived? upcoming in Minor American, and excerpts from ?St. John?s Rose Slumber? upcoming in Effing and Hambone. Several years ago Mipoesis ran a series of essays by David on Rilke and three short memoir pieces, and Ocho ran yet another sonnet suite. Current projects include a long poem written alongside the Gospel of Mark, ?Places I?ve Lived?, which is evolving into an open ended project, finalizing a collection of translations of Rilke?s French poetry, and yet another Rg Veda essay, this one on the theme of twins there and in the poetry of Nate Mackey. David is associated with the NC lucipo poets, and lives with his scholar wife and four cats. ~~~~ Keith Newton edits the online magazine Harp & Altar. His poems and translations have appeared in Harvard Review, Cannibal, Typo, and Circumference, among other journals, and a chapbook of his work is forthcoming in 2008 from Cannibal Books. He lives in Brooklyn. ~~~ Chris Tonelli lives in the Boston area where he runs The So and So Series. He has work forthcoming in Saltgrass, Salt Hill, Absent, and Good Foot, and is the author of three chapbooks: For People Who Like Gravity and Other People (Rope-A-Dope Press, forthcoming), A Mule-Shaped Cloud (w/ Sarah Bartlett, horse less press, 2008), and WIDE TREE: Short Poems (Kitchen Press, 2006). ~~~~ stain 766 grand street brooklyn, ny 11211 (L train to Grand Street, 1 block west) 718/387-7840 open daily @ 5 p.m. ~~~~ Hosted by Amy King and Ana Bozicevic ~~~~ The rest of the year's dishes served up here: http://thestainofpoetry.wordpress.com/ http://thestainofpoetry.wordpress.com/ http://thestainofpoetry.wordpress.com/ _______ Recent http://www.tarpaulinsky.com/Reviews/kiss-me.html http://jacketmagazine.com/34/dickow-king.shtml Alias http://www.amyking.org Your Suggestions http://amyking.wordpress.com/2008/06/12/poetry-exercises-wanted/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080703/669d4031/attachment.html From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Thu Jul 3 19:50:54 2008 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:19 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] CD Wright's body count In-Reply-To: References: <8CAA9ECC0F7CD33-F9C-175B@FWM-D18.sysops.aol.com><486B6397.2010407@nut-n-but.net><486BBCB9.8080704@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <486D65DE.4090407@nut-n-but.net> Suzanne Burns wrote: > > > On Wed, Jul 2, 2008 at 1:36 PM, Bob Grumman > wrote: > > > > Roger Day wrote: > > "politically correct": the lowest denominator of criticism > these days. > Something you don't like? > > > It's a descriptive term whose meaning everyone knows, Roger. > > > I disagree. It ceased to be a descriptive term a long, long time > ago. What is became is a It's a great big rubber stamp one slaps down > to dismiss, trivialize, and above all silence any discussion of a > political or social issue (especially if it concerns women) one does > not want to hear about. > > I too call bullshit. If you don't like CD Wrights work, fine, but > please say something real. > > Suzanne Burns I can't remember exactly what I said, but it was more or less that mediocre poets whose political outlook mirrors the outlook of the liberal establishment--i.e., are politically correct (and I await a better term for what I meant)--are the ones who get grants, as CD Wright has. My implication was that the political stance, which should be irrelevant, counts. --Bob G. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080703/36afa22a/attachment.html From jjeffreymail at yahoo.com Thu Jul 3 20:48:10 2008 From: jjeffreymail at yahoo.com (John Jeffrey) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:19 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] CD Wright's body count Message-ID: <954726.86731.qm@web54110.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Jeez. Someone uses the term "politically correct" and gets a couple of "Bullshit"s thrown back at him? And, more interestingly, the Bullshiters then claim that the phrase "politically correct" is the "lowest denominator of criticism" or that it's not "descriptive"? Well ain't that just the crap calling the clich? stinky. What's the name of this list again? ----- Original Message ---- From: Bob Grumman To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views" Sent: Thursday, July 3, 2008 7:50:54 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] CD Wright's body count Suzanne Burns wrote: On Wed, Jul 2, 2008 at 1:36 PM, Bob Grumman wrote: Roger Day wrote: "politically correct": the lowest denominator of criticism these days. Something you don't like? It's a descriptive term whose meaning everyone knows, Roger. I disagree. It ceased to be a descriptive term a long, long time ago. What is became is a It's a great big rubber stamp one slaps down to dismiss, trivialize, and above all silence any discussion of a political or social issue (especially if it concerns women) one does not want to hear about. I too call bullshit. If you don't like CD Wrights work, fine, but please say something real. Suzanne Burns I can't remember exactly what I said, but it was more or less that mediocre poets whose political outlook mirrors the outlook of the liberal establishment--i.e., are politically correct (and I await a better term for what I meant)--are the ones who get grants, as CD Wright has. My implication was that the political stance, which should be irrelevant, counts. --Bob G. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080703/721792b2/attachment.html From editor at pavementsaw.org Thu Jul 3 21:47:37 2008 From: editor at pavementsaw.org (David Baratier) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:20 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Asking for help from journal editors In-Reply-To: <200807031600.m63G06kG017199@wiz.cath.vt.edu> Message-ID: <691102.38287.qm@web45615.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> I am looking for blurbs from various journal editors and others for?our forthcoming Simon Perchik book-length serial poem volume _The Family of Man_.. It's?massive?but looks like with signatures a number of interior pages for blurbs are available. To the best of my research, the list below?contains all?the journals these poems first appeared in. If you are in contact with any of these publications, former editors, happen to be?one of them, or are a fan of his work please contact me. ? ACM, Abalone Moon Journal, Abbey, Abramelin, Abraxas, Adirondack Review, Affair of the Mind, Age of Koestler, Alaska Quarterly, Albatross, Aldebaran, Alembic, Alsop Review, Altadena Review, Amanita Brandy, American Letters & Commentary, Amherst Review, Anathema Review, Anemone, Angelflesh, Anomone Sidecar, Apocalypse, Apocryphaltext, Apostrophe, Apple Valley Review, Arachne, Archipelago, Architrave, Argestes, Arnazella, Art:Mag, Art & Understanding, Art/Life, Artful Dodge, Artisan, Artword Quarterly, Ascent, Ash Canyon Review, Asheville Review, Asylum Arts, Audience, Aura, Aurorean, Axe Factory, Back Porch, Bakunin, Baltimore Review, Barbaric Yawp, Bear Deluxe, Beatlick News, Becoming, Behind Bars, Bellevue Literary Review, Beloit Poetry Journal, Berkeley Poetry Review, Bitter Oleander, Black Bear Review, Black Buzzard Review, Black Fly Review, Black Warrior Review, Blank Gun Silencer, Blind Man?s Rainbow, Block?s Magazine, Blood and Fire, Bloomsbury Review, Blue Light Review, Blue Unicorn, Blue Violin, Bluefish, Blueline, Bluff City Review, Bogg, Booklovers, Borderlands, Born Magazine, Boston Literary Review, Boulevard, Bravado, Brazo?s Gumbo, Broadkill Review, Brooklyn Review, Burning Cloud, Butterfly Chronicles, California Quarterly, Cache Review, Caf? Review, Caf? Solo, Caffeine Destiny, Cairn, Calapooya, Caliban, Cameltalk, Canadian Dimension, Cannon?s Mouth, Cape Rock, Caprice/Ancient Mariner, Catbird Seat, Catharis Quarterly, Cathartic, Caveat Lector, Ceilidh, Celebration, Cement Squeeze, Center, Cerberus, Ceremony, Cervena Barva, Chaffin Journal, Chantarelle?s Notebook, Charitan Review, Chase Park, Chattahoochee Review, Chelsea, Cider Press Review, Circle Magazine, Clackamas Review, Clutch, Coal City Review, Coffee & Chicory, College English, Colorado North, Colorado Review, Columbia Poetry Review, Common Ground, Common Knowledge, Conditional Response, Conduit, Confluence, Confrontation, Connecticut Poetry Review, Connecticut River Review, Contact II, Conte, Context South, Cotton Boll/Atlanta Review, Cottonwood Review, Crab Creek Review, Cream City Review, Creeping Bent, Cresset, Crystal Drum, Curbside Review, Curious Rooms, Current Accounts, Daybreak, Defined Providence, Denver Quarterly, Descant, Devil?s Millhopper, Diagram, Dickinson Review, Dixie Phoenix Review, DMQ, Dog River Review, Down in the Dirt, Dusty Dog, Eagle?s Flight, East West, Eclipse, Edgz, 88: A Journal, Ekphrasis, El Dorado Review, Elements, Eleventh Muse, Elixir, English Journal, Epoch, Erased, Sigh, Sigh, Eratica, Etcetera, Ever Dancing Muse, Evergreen Review, Exit 13 Magazine, Expose?d , Expressive Spirals, Exquisite Corpse, Externalist, Eyerhyme, Fairfield Review, Farmer?s Market, Faultline, Fine Madness, First Intensity, Fish Drum, 5 Trope, 580 Split, Flying Horse, Folio, Footprints, Footwork Magazine, Forum, 4 am Poetry Review, Free Lunch, Frigg Magazine, Frisson, Full Circle Journal, Fullosia, G W Review, Galley Sail Review, Gargoyle, Garnet, Gayme, Goerge & Mertie?s Place, Geronimo Review, Ghoti Magazine, Glass Cherry, Gnome, Good Foot, Gopherwood Review, Grab-A-Nickel, Grasslands Review, Grasslimb, Great Midwestern Quarterly, Greatcoat, Green Hills Literary Lantern, Green Mountains Review, Green?s Magazine, Greetings, Gryphon, Habersham Review, Half Tones To Jubilee, Hamilton Stone, Hammers, Hampden-Sydney Review, Hanging Loose, Hapa Nui, Harvard Magazine, Hawaii Review, Hayden?s Ferry, Haz Mat, Heeltap, Heliotrope, Hellp, Hey, Listen, Hidden Oak, Higgensville Reader, High Plains Literary Review, Hiss Quarterly, Hoboeye, Hodge Podge, Hogtown Creek Review, Hollins Critic, Home Planet News, Homesstead Review, Hot Flashes, Hubbub, Hunger Magazine, Hyper Text, Ibis, Icon, Iconoclast, Idiom 23, Illya?s Honey, Images, Imploding Tie-Dyed Toupe, Indefinite Space, Ink Pot, Intent, Interim, International Poetry Review, Into The Teeth Of The Wind, Iodine Poetry Journal, Ironwood, Jaw Magazine, Jeopardy, Jones Avenue, Journal of New Jersey Poets, Just West of Athens, Kaleidoscope, Kerf, Kimera, Kinesis, King Log, King?s English, Kingfisher, Konfluence, L?intrigue, Laddie, Lake Effect, Language & Culture, Last Tangos, Late Knocking, Laughing Dog, Ledge, Liberty Hill, Limestone, Linden Lane Magazine, LiNQ, Listening Eye, Lit Rag, 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Journal, Xanadu, Xavier Review, Yefief, and Zillah. Be well David Baratier, Editor Pavement Saw Press 321 Empire Street Montpelier OH 43543 http://pavementsaw.org Subscribe to our e-mail listserv at http://pavementsaw.org/list/?p=subscribe&id=1 --- On Thu, 7/3/08, new-poetry-request@wiz.cath.vt.edu wrote: From: new-poetry-request@wiz.cath.vt.edu Subject: New-Poetry Digest, Vol 49, Issue 5 To: new-poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu Date: Thursday, July 3, 2008, 4:00 PM Send New-Poetry mailing list submissions to new-poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to new-poetry-request@wiz.cath.vt.edu You can reach the person managing the list at new-poetry-owner@wiz.cath.vt.edu When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of New-Poetry digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: CD Wright's body count (Roger Day) 2. RE: CD Wright's body count (Skip Fox) 3. Goodreads' Poetry Group (amy king) 4. Re: CD Wright's body count (Bob Grumman) 5. Re: CD Wright's body count (jforjames@aol.com) 6. Re: CD Wright's body count (TheOldMole) 7. Re: What I witnessed (TheOldMole) 8. Re: What I witnessed (TheOldMole) 9. Re: What I witnessed (John Jeffrey) 10. Transcontinental Poetry Award deadline 8/15/2008 (David Baratier) 11. Re: What I witnessed (Rsgwynn1@cs.com) 12. Re: What I witnessed (Chris Lott) 13. Re: CD Wright's body count (Roger Day) 14. Re: What I witnessed (Rsgwynn1@cs.com) 15. Re: What I witnessed (Chris Lott) 16. Re: CD Wright's body count (Suzanne Burns) 17. Re: CD Wright's body count (Suzanne Burns) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2008 19:15:07 +0100 From: "Roger Day" Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] CD Wright's body count To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &, Views" Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Sorry. I was shooting from the hip. Not always advisable when writing emails. Roger On Wed, Jul 2, 2008 at 4:45 PM, Beverly Rainbolt wrote: > Uhmmm, that was a joke. > > On Wed, Jul 2, 2008 at 10:20 AM, Roger Day wrote: >> >> Do people actually *buy* poems like they do photographs? I don't think so. >> Roger >> >> On 7/2/08, Beverly Rainbolt wrote: >> > Wow. Kind of makes you wonder what the poems are going for. >> > >> > 2008/7/2 : >> > > http://edelmangallery.com/lusterp.htm >> > > _______________________________________________ >> > > New-Poetry mailing list >> > > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu >> > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> > > >> > > >> > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > New-Poetry mailing list >> > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu >> > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> > >> > >> >> >> -- >> My Stuff: http://www.badstep.net/ >> "I began to warm and chill >> to objects and their fields" >> Nick Cave & The Bad Seeds >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- My Stuff: http://www.badstep.net/ "I began to warm and chill to objects and their fields" Nick Cave & The Bad Seeds ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2008 14:25:44 -0500 From: "Skip Fox" Subject: RE: [New-Poetry] CD Wright's body count To: "'NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views'" Message-ID: <8F5C2AB834A945F7BACD5715074AE486@win.louisiana.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Good work is good work. If someone's into exploiting others, he or she is not usually doing good work. If he or she both exploits and creates good work, then should we attack the work or the person for the exploitation? C.D. Wright is not only exploiting no one but doing amazingly good work as well. (One wonders, sometimes, what the real issue is.) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080702/0b8cf5c4/attachment-0001.html ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2008 13:15:57 -0700 (PDT) From: amy king Subject: [New-Poetry] Goodreads' Poetry Group To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &, Views" , UB Poetics discussion group Message-ID: <193748.3263.qm@web83307.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Dear Poets, If you are a member of Goodreads (similar to LibraryThing), consider joining the Poetry Group there: http://www.goodreads.com/group/show/233._POETRY_ The group includes a number of discussions -- INTRODUCTIONS ~~~ MY BOOK / POEM IS PUBLISHED! ~~~ ADVICE - QUESTION FOR YA! ~~~ I APPRECIATE POETRY CRITIQUE ~~~ YOU?VE GOTTA READ THIS POEM! ~~~ CALLS FOR WORK - SUBMIT! ~~~ POETRY WRITING SUGGESTIONS ~~~ PLEASE HELP ~~~ RECOMMENDED BOOKS ~~~ POETRY REVIEWS ~~~ FUN STUFF ~~~ We now have a total of 781 Goodreads? members, so if you?re down with discussions that fall under the above headings, join the gang! Best, Amy _______ Recent http://www.tarpaulinsky.com/Reviews/kiss-me.html http://jacketmagazine.com/34/dickow-king.shtml Alias http://www.amyking.org Your Suggestions http://amyking.wordpress.com/2008/06/12/poetry-exercises-wanted/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080702/9c6b7128/attachment-0001.html ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2008 17:25:57 -0500 From: Bob Grumman Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] CD Wright's body count To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views" Message-ID: <486C0075.8000708@nut-n-but.net> Content-Type: text/plain;charset=ISO-8859-1;format=flowed Roger Day wrote: > It's lazy rhetoric, Robert. I thought you would have known better. It > just displays your prejudice. > What's a better term for describing one whose political opinions are the same as, Nancy Pelosi's, say? > CD Wright went for the money and got it. More power to her elbow. > Doubtless she has dependancies to look after, as do we all. > Agreed, Roger. But I was responding to the argument that her "poetry of witness" was not making her big bucks, that's all. > I'm currently looking at scholarships to try and go to Art School. > Doubtless there are better artists out there than me. Let them > compete, as I will do. > > Roger Sure, but compete as what: advocates of what I call political correctness, or as artists? In this case, I imagine the latter, since the position of student isn't as socially important as the office of member of the Society of American Poets or the like. --Bob ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2008 18:32:12 -0400 From: jforjames@aol.com Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] CD Wright's body count To: new-poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu Message-ID: <8CAAAAA9AA62B58-75C-123B@WEBMAIL-DC06.sysops.aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" That's not a lot unless you sell a lot. Galleries close all the time for want of sales. A few artists make it big...but most, like most poets, make ends meeting teaching, doing workshops, etc.?Galleries, good ones, ones that can really sell their stock, take 40% or more. With each sale the artist is often recovering cost of materials, equipment (costly in photograhy), mounting & framing, sudio rental, etc. And time planning, developing and executing the work.?I ?hope Luster is one of the lucky ones. Her work strikes me as strong (and her 'sentiments' are in the right place). Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: Beverly Rainbolt Sent: Wed, 2 Jul 2008 11:12 am Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] CD Wright's body count Wow. Kind of makes you wonder what the poems are going for. 2008/7/2 : http://edelmangallery.com/lusterp.htm _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080702/5b3a5539/attachment-0001.html ------------------------------ Message: 6 Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2008 20:32:39 -0400 From: TheOldMole Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] CD Wright's body count To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views" Message-ID: <486C1E27.70804@opus40.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed David Ferguson used to sell them in the same way. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=680Pn_jXBfc Roger Day wrote: > Sorry. I was shooting from the hip. Not always advisable when writing emails. > > Roger > > On Wed, Jul 2, 2008 at 4:45 PM, Beverly Rainbolt > wrote: > >> Uhmmm, that was a joke. >> >> On Wed, Jul 2, 2008 at 10:20 AM, Roger Day wrote: >> >>> Do people actually *buy* poems like they do photographs? I don't think so. >>> Roger >>> >>> On 7/2/08, Beverly Rainbolt wrote: >>> >>>> Wow. Kind of makes you wonder what the poems are going for. >>>> >>>> 2008/7/2 : >>>> >>>>> http://edelmangallery.com/lusterp.htm >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> New-Poetry mailing list >>>>> New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu >>>>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> New-Poetry mailing list >>>> New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu >>>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> -- >>> My Stuff: http://www.badstep.net/ >>> "I began to warm and chill >>> to objects and their fields" >>> Nick Cave & The Bad Seeds >>> _______________________________________________ >>> New-Poetry mailing list >>> New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu >>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> >> > > > > -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ The moral is this: in American verse, The better you are, the pay is worse. --Corey Ford ------------------------------ Message: 7 Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2008 21:37:10 -0400 From: TheOldMole Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] What I witnessed To: jjeffreymail@yahoo.com, "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views" Message-ID: <486C2D46.6070704@opus40.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed You think that's depressing -- consider that all this is pretty much what was said about Keats -- flabby poetry, wouldn't have been published at all if it weren't spouting politically correct Leigh Hunt liberalism. John Jeffrey wrote: > Now I'm depressed. > > > > --- On *Wed, 7/2/08, TheOldMole //* wrote: > > From: TheOldMole > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] What I witnessed > To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views" > > Date: Wednesday, July 2, 2008, 12:58 PM > > There's no one standard for what makes a good poem, and we don't know > we're right. Maybe Maya Angelou's flabby poetry of witness will be read > > 200 years from now as the defining work of our time, and -- hard as it > is to believe -- Aram Saroyan won't be remembered vividly. Or Ashbery, > or Levine, or Jorie Graham > > Chris Lott wrote: > > On Wed, Jul 2, 2008 at 06:07, John Jeffrey > > wrote: > >> -- "Now, was that applause for me, for the poem, or for the > sentiments in > >> the poem? You know, applause can be so ambiguous." > >> > >> THAT is what (at least) I am talking about, that sentiment makes many > people > >> raise their opinion of a poem, praising flabby, bland poems to the > status of > >> "powerful" if they agree with the point of view put forward > by the poet. > > > > No doubt. But the complications are obvious: bad poems can still do > > good things... and denigrating good poems because one *doesn't* agree > > with the position being taken is at least as common as artificially > > elevating them (when anyone cares at all). Then again, past a pretty > > basic level, I'm not at all sure that aesthetic appraisal-- as > > relative and individual as it is-- can really be so neatly > > disentangled from other > cultural and philosophical understanding. > > > > I've only seen three poems (one of them incomplete) from this book by > > Wright, but none of them struck me as bland and flabby. On the other > > hand, I lost all credibility in not being entranced by much of O'Hara. > > And I have an inordinate number of family members who have been in the > > prison system (and some who still are) so, for reasons stated above, > > my view comes from a different place than some others. The implication > > in some of the discussion is that I should be more sensitive to > > "exploitation" because of that.. .and I think I am, but then we > get > > back to the fact that even bad poems can do good things, like giving a > > problem most constantly and happily ignore even a little exposure. > > > > c > > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > -- > Tad Richards > http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ > http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ > > The moral is this: in American verse, > The better you are, the pay is worse. > --Corey Ford > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ The moral is this: in American verse, The better you are, the pay is worse. --Corey Ford ------------------------------ Message: 8 Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2008 21:37:59 -0400 From: TheOldMole Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] What I witnessed To: jjeffreymail@yahoo.com, "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views" Message-ID: <486C2D77.9010307@opus40.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed http://www.newyorker.com/arts/critics/books/2008/07/07/080707crbo_books_kirsch?currentPage=all John Jeffrey wrote: > Now I'm depressed. > > > > --- On *Wed, 7/2/08, TheOldMole //* wrote: > > From: TheOldMole > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] What I witnessed > To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views" > > Date: Wednesday, July 2, 2008, 12:58 PM > > There's no one standard for what makes a good poem, and we don't know > we're right. Maybe Maya Angelou's flabby poetry of witness will be read > > 200 years from now as the defining work of our time, and -- hard as it > is to believe -- Aram Saroyan won't be remembered vividly. Or Ashbery, > or Levine, or Jorie Graham > > Chris Lott wrote: > > On Wed, Jul 2, 2008 at 06:07, John Jeffrey > > wrote: > >> -- "Now, was that applause for me, for the poem, or for the > sentiments in > >> the poem? You know, applause can be so ambiguous." > >> > >> THAT is what (at least) I am talking about, that sentiment makes many > people > >> raise their opinion of a poem, praising flabby, bland poems to the > status of > >> "powerful" if they agree with the point of view put forward > by the poet. > > > > No doubt. But the complications are obvious: bad poems can still do > > good things... and denigrating good poems because one *doesn't* agree > > with the position being taken is at least as common as artificially > > elevating them (when anyone cares at all). Then again, past a pretty > > basic level, I'm not at all sure that aesthetic appraisal-- as > > relative and individual as it is-- can really be so neatly > > disentangled from other > cultural and philosophical understanding. > > > > I've only seen three poems (one of them incomplete) from this book by > > Wright, but none of them struck me as bland and flabby. On the other > > hand, I lost all credibility in not being entranced by much of O'Hara. > > And I have an inordinate number of family members who have been in the > > prison system (and some who still are) so, for reasons stated above, > > my view comes from a different place than some others. The implication > > in some of the discussion is that I should be more sensitive to > > "exploitation" because of that.. .and I think I am, but then we > get > > back to the fact that even bad poems can do good things, like giving a > > problem most constantly and happily ignore even a little exposure. > > > > c > > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > -- > Tad Richards > http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ > http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ > > The moral is this: in American verse, > The better you are, the pay is worse. > --Corey Ford > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ The moral is this: in American verse, The better you are, the pay is worse. --Corey Ford ------------------------------ Message: 9 Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2008 19:36:02 -0700 (PDT) From: John Jeffrey Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] What I witnessed To: TheOldMole , "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views" Message-ID: <876228.94154.qm@web54109.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hmmm. So let's see if there's any transitive relation here: 1) Angelou's poetry is flabby and critical attacked, 2) Keats' poetry was flabby and critical attacked, 3) therefore Angelou = Keats. ----- Original Message ---- From: TheOldMole To: jjeffreymail@yahoo.com; "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views" Sent: Wednesday, July 2, 2008 9:37:10 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] What I witnessed You think that's depressing -- consider that all this is pretty much what was said about Keats -- flabby poetry, wouldn't have been published at all if it weren't spouting politically correct Leigh Hunt liberalism. John Jeffrey wrote: > Now I'm depressed. > > > > --- On *Wed, 7/2/08, TheOldMole //* wrote: > > From: TheOldMole > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] What I witnessed > To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views" > > Date: Wednesday, July 2, 2008, 12:58 PM > > There's no one standard for what makes a good poem, and we don't know > we're right. Maybe Maya Angelou's flabby poetry of witness will be read > > 200 years from now as the defining work of our time, and -- hard as it > is to believe -- Aram Saroyan won't be remembered vividly. Or Ashbery, > or Levine, or Jorie Graham > > Chris Lott wrote: > > On Wed, Jul 2, 2008 at 06:07, John Jeffrey > > wrote: > >> -- "Now, was that applause for me, for the poem, or for the > sentiments in > >> the poem? You know, applause can be so ambiguous." > >> > >> THAT is what (at least) I am talking about, that sentiment makes many > people > >> raise their opinion of a poem, praising flabby, bland poems to the > status of > >> "powerful" if they agree with the point of view put forward > by the poet. > > > > No doubt. But the complications are obvious: bad poems can still do > > good things... and denigrating good poems because one *doesn't* agree > > with the position being taken is at least as common as artificially > > elevating them (when anyone cares at all). Then again, past a pretty > > basic level, I'm not at all sure that aesthetic appraisal-- as > > relative and individual as it is-- can really be so neatly > > disentangled from other > cultural and philosophical understanding. > > > > I've only seen three poems (one of them incomplete) from this book by > > Wright, but none of them struck me as bland and flabby. On the other > > hand, I lost all credibility in not being entranced by much of O'Hara. > > And I have an inordinate number of family members who have been in the > > prison system (and some who still are) so, for reasons stated above, > > my view comes from a different place than some others. The implication > > in some of the discussion is that I should be more sensitive to > > "exploitation" because of that.. .and I think I am, but then we > get > > back to the fact that even bad poems can do good things, like giving a > > problem most constantly and happily ignore even a little exposure. > > > > c > > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > -- > Tad Richards > http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ > http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ > > The moral is this: in American verse, > The better you are, the pay is worse. > --Corey Ford > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ The moral is this: in American verse, The better you are, the pay is worse. --Corey Ford -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080702/f1a972e4/attachment-0001.html ------------------------------ Message: 10 Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2008 20:19:12 -0700 (PDT) From: David Baratier Subject: [New-Poetry] Transcontinental Poetry Award deadline 8/15/2008 To: new-poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu Message-ID: <666995.10595.qm@web45616.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" The Annual Transcontinental Poetry Award by Pavement Saw Press ? All contributors receive books, chapbooks and journals equal to, or more than, the entry fee. Please mention this to your friends and all others who might be interested! ? Electronic and mailed entries must meet these requirements: 1. The manuscript should be at least 48 pages of poetry and no more than 70 pages of poetry in length. Separations between sections are NOT a part of the page count. 2. A one page cover letter. Include a brief biography, the book's title, your name, address, and telephone number, and, if you have e-mail, your e-mail address. This should be followed by a page which lists publication acknowledgments for the book. For each acknowledgement mention the publisher (journal, anthology, chapbook etc.) and the poem published.? 3. The manuscript should be bound with a single clip and begin with a title page including the book's title, your name, address, and telephone number, and, if you have e-mail, your e-mail address. 4. The second page should have only the title of the manuscript. There are to be no acknowledgments or mention of the author's name from this page forward. Submissions to the contest are blind judged. 5. There should be no more than one poem on each page. The manuscript can contain pieces longer than one page. 6. The manuscript should be paginated, beginning with the first page of poetry. ? ? Each year Pavement Saw Press will publish at least one book of poetry and/or prose poems from manuscripts received during this competition. Selections are chosen through a blind judging process. The competition is open to anyone who has not previously published a volume of poetry or prose. The author receives $1000 and five percent of the 1000 copy press run. Previous judges have included Judith Vollmer, David Bromige, Bin Ramke and Howard McCord.. This year David Baratier will be the judge; past students, Pavement Saw Press interns and employees are not allowed to submit. All poems must be original, all prose must be original, fiction or translations are not acceptable. Writers who have had volumes of poetry and/or prose under 40 pages printed or printed in limited editions of no more than 500 copies are eligible. Submissions are accepted during the months of June, July, and until August 15th. All submissions must have an August 15th, 2008, or earlier, postmark. This is an award for first books only. ? If you wish to send via regular mail your manuscript should be accompanied by a check in the amount of $20.00 made payable to Pavement Saw Press. All US contributors to the contest will receive books, chapbooks and journals equal to, or more than, the entry fee. Add $3 ( US ) for other countries to cover the extra postal charge. Do not include an SASE for notification of results, this information will be sent with the free book. Do not send the only copy of your work. All manuscripts are recycled and individual comments on the manuscripts cannot be made. ? If you wish to submit electronically, you should send $27.00 via paypal to info@pavementsaw.org. We will then send you an e-mail confirmation as well as where to e-mail the manuscript. Electronic submissions need to be sent as PDF files or as word (.doc) files. Other formats are not accepted. The extra cost is to cover the paypal fees as well as the time, labor, ink, and so on, to print out your manuscript. In addition to the prize winner, sometimes another anonymous manuscript is chosen, if enough entries arrive. This ?editors choice? manuscript will be published under a standard royalty contract. A decision will be reached in November. Entries should be sent to: ? Pavement Saw Press Transcontinental Award Entry 321 Empire Street Montpelier, OH 43543 ? All submissions must have an August 15th, or earlier, postmark or paypal payment. Submissions are accepted during the months of June, July, and August only. If you have questions, please ask us: info@pavementsaw.org Be well David Baratier, Editor Pavement Saw Press 321 Empire Street Montpelier OH 43543 http://pavementsaw.org Subscribe to our e-mail listserv at http://pavementsaw.org/list/?p=subscribe&id=1 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080702/7df3924f/attachment-0001.html ------------------------------ Message: 11 Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2008 23:57:32 EDT From: Rsgwynn1@cs.com Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] What I witnessed To: new-poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" In a message dated 7/2/2008 9:36:41 PM Central Daylight Time, jjeffreymail@yahoo.com writes: > > Hmmm. So let's see if there's any transitive relation here: > > 1) Angelou's poetry is flabby and critical attacked, > 2) Keats' poetry was flabby and critical attacked, > 3) therefore Angelou = Keats. > > > > Undistributed middle term. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080702/89a20bff/attachment-0001.html ------------------------------ Message: 12 Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2008 20:48:14 -0800 From: "Chris Lott" Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] What I witnessed To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &, Views" Message-ID: <9b1b9dab0807022148s4c7cda44h40e1871ec9935fc9@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 On Wed, Jul 2, 2008 at 19:57, wrote: > In a message dated 7/2/2008 9:36:41 PM Central Daylight Time, > jjeffreymail@yahoo.com writes: > > Hmmm. So let's see if there's any transitive relation here: > > 1) Angelou's poetry is flabby and critical attacked, > 2) Keats' poetry was flabby and critical attacked, > 3) therefore Angelou = Keats. > > Undistributed middle term. Is it really? I need to refresh my memory from logic class. Anyway, this gets right to the heart of the matter that will never be resolved. The "is" and "was" are the critical terms... and I'm sure the attackers of Keats were no more open to being persuaded than we who don't think Angelou is much of a poet are-- and they would likewise be just as shocked to find out they were "wrong" as we would be if we could last 100 or so more years to check... c ------------------------------ Message: 13 Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2008 07:21:21 +0100 From: "Roger Day" Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] CD Wright's body count To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &, Views" Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 If the terms of the competition are stated up-front, then I have no problem with that. It's only if the competition is skewed behind the scenes, then I do have a problem. I suspect a lot of women apply for jobs which appear to be open but which are in actually not. I've sat on selection boards for charities; people tend to select those candidates they like. Although I see you wear a tin-foil hat. Roger On Wed, Jul 2, 2008 at 11:25 PM, Bob Grumman wrote: > >> I'm currently looking at scholarships to try and go to Art School. >> Doubtless there are better artists out there than me. Let them >> compete, as I will do. >> >> Roger > > Sure, but compete as what: advocates of what I call political correctness, > or as artists? In this case, I imagine the latter, since the position of > student isn't as socially important as the office of member of the Society > of American Poets or the like. > > --Bob > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- My Stuff: http://www.badstep.net/ "I began to warm and chill to objects and their fields" Nick Cave & The Bad Seeds ------------------------------ Message: 14 Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2008 10:09:01 EDT From: Rsgwynn1@cs.com Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] What I witnessed To: new-poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" In a message dated 7/2/2008 11:48:32 PM Central Daylight Time, chris.lott@gmail.com writes: > Anyway, this gets right to the heart of the matter that will never be > resolved. The "is" and "was" are the critical terms... and I'm sure > the attackers of Keats were no more open to being persuaded than we > who don't think Angelou is much of a poet are-- and they would > likewise be just as shocked to find out they were "wrong" as we would > be if we could last 100 or so more years to check... > > c History has treated lots of popular poets pretty badly--Shenstone, Cowley, Hunt, Amy Lowell et al. And sometimes the reverse happens as well. Keats wasn't without his champions, though. http://books.google.com/books?hl=en&id=7wDODci8tLYC& dq=keats+critical+heritage&printsec=frontcover&source=web&ots=E3rpF5INjD& sig=MGPAklZqZRZus3RTRfhccW6RZLo&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=6&ct=result#PPR8,M1 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080703/e25b155d/attachment-0001.html ------------------------------ Message: 15 Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2008 09:20:22 -0800 From: "Chris Lott" Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] What I witnessed To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &, Views" Message-ID: <9b1b9dab0807031020r4d8c8961udea300d431d762e4@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 On Thu, Jul 3, 2008 at 06:09, wrote: > History has treated lots of popular poets pretty badly--Shenstone, Cowley, > Hunt, Amy Lowell et al. And sometimes the reverse happens as well. Keats > wasn't without his champions, though. > > http://books.google.com/books?hl=en&id=7wDODci8tLYC&dq=keats+critical+heritage&printsec=frontcover&source=web&ots=E3rpF5INjD&sig=MGPAklZqZRZus3RTRfhccW6RZLo&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=6&ct=result#PPR8,M1 > _______________________________________________ True, that. I don't know that anyone of Clare's stature is shilling for Maya Angelou either... c ------------------------------ Message: 16 Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2008 13:41:17 -0400 From: "Suzanne Burns" Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] CD Wright's body count To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &, Views" Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" On Wed, Jul 2, 2008 at 1:36 PM, Bob Grumman wrote: > > > Roger Day wrote: > >> "politically correct": the lowest denominator of criticism these days. >> Something you don't like? >> > > It's a descriptive term whose meaning everyone knows, Roger. I disagree. It ceased to be a descriptive term a long, long time ago. What is became is a It's a great big rubber stamp one slaps down to dismiss, trivialize, and above all silence any discussion of a political or social issue (especially if it concerns women) one does not want to hear about. I too call bullshit. If you don't like CD Wrights work, fine, but please say something real. Suzanne Burns -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080703/7aded2c0/attachment-0001.html ------------------------------ Message: 17 Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2008 13:49:29 -0400 From: "Suzanne Burns" Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] CD Wright's body count To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &, Views" Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" On Wed, Jul 2, 2008 at 6:32 PM, wrote: > That's not a lot unless you sell a lot. Galleries close all the time for > want of sales. A few artists make it big...but most, like most poets, make > ends meeting teaching, doing workshops, etc. Galleries, good ones, ones that > can really sell their stock, take 40% or more. With each sale the artist is > often recovering cost of materials, equipment (costly in photograhy), > mounting & framing, sudio rental, etc. And time planning, developing and > executing the work. I > hope Luster is one of the lucky ones. Her work strikes me as strong (and > her 'sentiments' are in the right place). > Finnegan I really love these photographs and feel the same way. And thank you Jim for pointing out how this really works for the artist-- After you subtract materials and everything else you have listed, factor in the cut taken by the gallery and then divide what is left over by the TIME the artist spent developing the idea abd work through to find the right image and then actually finish the work.... It's nothing. NOTH-ING. The artist also takes all the risk. They have to front all the materials and time AND take the risk that nobody will buy the work in the end. Bottom line: for most fine artists it really is not at all about the money. I have this conversation often with a members of my extended family who are shocked-- SHOCKED!-- at how much money I paid for a painting once. Some people really do not get how much work and time goes into something like this. Yeah, I bought a painting instead of a sofa. Big whup. That to me sounds like smart and sensible thing to do. Who needs a sofa? Suzanne Burns -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080703/f8921222/attachment-0001.html ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry End of New-Poetry Digest, Vol 49, Issue 5 ***************************************** -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080703/cacaedd6/attachment.html From grahamd at ripon.edu Fri Jul 4 11:09:51 2008 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:20 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Leaves of Grass Message-ID: <90FE55DC-1A67-46A3-AA7E-22F3F30EA0FB@ripon.edu> From the Writer's Almanac: "On this day in 1855, the first edition of Whitman's Leaves of Grass was printed. It consisted of 12 poems and a preface. The printers were friends of his, and they did not charge Whitman for their work. He helped set some of the type himself. 'Grass' is a printer's term; it refers to a casual job that can be set up between busy times." How on earth did I not know this about the word "grass" as printer's lingo? ======================================== David Graham grahamd@ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.mac.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080704/91c3a867/attachment.html From brainboltpoet at gmail.com Fri Jul 4 11:19:19 2008 From: brainboltpoet at gmail.com (Beverly Rainbolt) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:20 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Leaves of Grass In-Reply-To: <90FE55DC-1A67-46A3-AA7E-22F3F30EA0FB@ripon.edu> References: <90FE55DC-1A67-46A3-AA7E-22F3F30EA0FB@ripon.edu> Message-ID: <5513eaa0807040819p632806e0oba22d2358b2a9433@mail.gmail.com> Indeed, it gives (me) a whole new layer to the title. Wonderful. Thanks for passing on. On Fri, Jul 4, 2008 at 10:09 AM, David Graham wrote: > From the Writer's Almanac: > > *"On this day* in 1855, *the first edition of Whitman's Leaves of Grasswas printed > *. It consisted of 12 poems and a preface. The printers were friends of > his, and they did not charge Whitman for their work. He helped set some of > the type himself. 'Grass' is a printer's term; it refers to a casual job > that can be set up between busy times." > How on earth did I not know this about the word "grass" as printer's lingo? > > > ======================================== > David Graham > grahamd@ripon.edu > > Home Page: > http://web.mac.com/drjazz > > Poetry Library: > http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html > ========================================== > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080704/cac8f165/attachment.html From chris.lott at gmail.com Fri Jul 4 13:03:42 2008 From: chris.lott at gmail.com (Chris Lott) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:20 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Leaves of Grass In-Reply-To: <90FE55DC-1A67-46A3-AA7E-22F3F30EA0FB@ripon.edu> References: <90FE55DC-1A67-46A3-AA7E-22F3F30EA0FB@ripon.edu> Message-ID: <9b1b9dab0807041003m553db9dbm97ae5f3e0f3fa8e7@mail.gmail.com> On Fri, Jul 4, 2008 at 07:09, David Graham wrote: > > 'Grass' is a printer's term; it refers to a casual job > that can be set up between busy times." That's news to this printing and press and Whitman enthusiast. I wonder if Whitman was aware of the term (the implication is that he was, but to never see it mentioned anywhere before makes me wonder). c From david.weinstock at gmail.com Fri Jul 4 13:58:35 2008 From: david.weinstock at gmail.com (David Weinstock) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:20 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Leaves of Grass In-Reply-To: <9b1b9dab0807041003m553db9dbm97ae5f3e0f3fa8e7@mail.gmail.com> References: <90FE55DC-1A67-46A3-AA7E-22F3F30EA0FB@ripon.edu> <9b1b9dab0807041003m553db9dbm97ae5f3e0f3fa8e7@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <437b1e3a0807041058s45b82216x94f0a0d8273f80c7@mail.gmail.com> I was also surprised by it. My credentials for being surprised are being a former member of the American Printing Historical Association, an interpreter in the printing exhibit of a historical museum, and a collector of type and presses. BUT it could be true. On Fri, Jul 4, 2008 at 1:03 PM, Chris Lott wrote: > On Fri, Jul 4, 2008 at 07:09, David Graham wrote: > > > > 'Grass' is a printer's term; it refers to a casual job > > that can be set up between busy times." > > That's news to this printing and press and Whitman enthusiast. I > wonder if Whitman was aware of the term (the implication is that he > was, but to never see it mentioned anywhere before makes me wonder). > > c > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- .......................................................... DAVID WEINSTOCK 240 Woodland Park, Middlebury, VT 05753 Home: 802-388-6939 Cell: 802-989-4314 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080704/95cf93c1/attachment.html From grahamd at ripon.edu Fri Jul 4 14:49:31 2008 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:20 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Leaves of Grass In-Reply-To: <437b1e3a0807041058s45b82216x94f0a0d8273f80c7@mail.gmail.com> References: <90FE55DC-1A67-46A3-AA7E-22F3F30EA0FB@ripon.edu> <9b1b9dab0807041003m553db9dbm97ae5f3e0f3fa8e7@mail.gmail.com> <437b1e3a0807041058s45b82216x94f0a0d8273f80c7@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <440ABAD9-1B15-472C-87CB-D6CAFE3C38A2@ripon.edu> I found this definition in *Brewer's Dictionary of Phrase & Fable*, 1898 edition, which seems to support the etymology: "A grass-hand is a compositor who fills a temporary vacancy." ======================================== David Graham grahamd@ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.mac.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== On Jul 4, 2008, at 12:58 PM, David Weinstock wrote: > I was also surprised by it. My credentials for being surprised are > being a former member of the American Printing Historical > Association, an interpreter in the printing exhibit of a historical > museum, and a collector of type and presses. > > BUT it could be true. > > > > On Fri, Jul 4, 2008 at 1:03 PM, Chris Lott > wrote: > On Fri, Jul 4, 2008 at 07:09, David Graham wrote: > > > > 'Grass' is a printer's term; it refers to a casual job > > that can be set up between busy times." > > That's news to this printing and press and Whitman enthusiast. I > wonder if Whitman was aware of the term (the implication is that he > was, but to never see it mentioned anywhere before makes me wonder). > > c > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > -- > .......................................................... > > DAVID WEINSTOCK > 240 Woodland Park, Middlebury, VT 05753 > > Home: 802-388-6939 > Cell: 802-989-4314 > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080704/d1e162c1/attachment.html From editor at pavementsaw.org Fri Jul 4 15:05:11 2008 From: editor at pavementsaw.org (David Baratier) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:20 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Leaves of Grass In-Reply-To: <200807041600.m64G03kG026385@wiz.cath.vt.edu> Message-ID: <525670.12663.qm@web45607.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Originally called _Stems and Seeds of Grass_ the newer title still contained?a hip,?underground, 1855 drug reference.. Be well David Baratier, Editor Pavement Saw Press 321 Empire Street Montpelier OH 43543 http://pavementsaw.org Subscribe to our e-mail listserv at http://pavementsaw.org/list/?p=subscribe&id=1 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080704/43bda3a8/attachment.html From Rsgwynn1 at cs.com Fri Jul 4 17:07:21 2008 From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com (Rsgwynn1@cs.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:20 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Leaves of Grass Message-ID: In a message dated 7/4/2008 1:50:08 PM Central Daylight Time, grahamd@ripon.edu writes: > > I found this definition in *Brewer's Dictionary of Phrase &Fable*, 1898 > edition, which seems to support the etymology: > > "A grass-hand is a compositor who fills a temporary vacancy." > > > > "Grass" must mean temporary in this sense, as in "grass-widow." -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080704/de874e78/attachment.html From chris.lott at gmail.com Fri Jul 4 17:35:11 2008 From: chris.lott at gmail.com (Chris Lott) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:20 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Leaves of Grass In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <9b1b9dab0807041435u7d37da3fs140c61e96ce2734a@mail.gmail.com> On Fri, Jul 4, 2008 at 13:07, wrote: > In a message dated 7/4/2008 1:50:08 PM Central Daylight Time, > grahamd@ripon.edu writes: > > I found this definition in *Brewer's Dictionary of Phrase &Fable*, 1898 > edition, which seems to support the etymology: > > "A grass-hand is a compositor who fills a temporary vacancy." > > "Grass" must mean temporary in this sense, as in "grass-widow." I doubt "grass" as slang for an informer goes back that far, but it would be fun if it did :) c From chris.lott at gmail.com Sun Jul 6 02:45:16 2008 From: chris.lott at gmail.com (Chris Lott) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:20 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] In Pittsburgh this week... Message-ID: <9b1b9dab0807052345i720ce4f5u5b0a852de48668ab@mail.gmail.com> I'm going to be in Pittsburgh this week... have never been there before and have some evenings free. Any recommended things to do/see? Any readings or anything going on that anyone knows of? c From Rsgwynn1 at cs.com Mon Jul 7 12:44:24 2008 From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com (Rsgwynn1@cs.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:20 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Tom Disch Message-ID: Though best known for his fiction, Tom was a wonderful poet and critic. http://www.boingboing.net/2008/07/06/rip-thomas-m-disch.html -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080707/f98126ff/attachment.html From AlMaginnes at aol.com Mon Jul 7 12:48:31 2008 From: AlMaginnes at aol.com (AlMaginnes@aol.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:20 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Tom Disch Message-ID: In a message dated 7/7/2008 12:44:58 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, Rsgwynn1@cs.com writes: http://www.boingboing.net/2008/07/06/rip-thomas-m-disch.html Sorry he's gone, but his one-size-fits-all critique of contemporary poetry THE CASTLE OF INDELOENCE was crap. **************Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for fuel-efficient used cars. (http://autos.aol.com/used?ncid=aolaut00050000000007) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080707/60a5ae49/attachment.html From jeff.newberry at gmail.com Mon Jul 7 13:26:53 2008 From: jeff.newberry at gmail.com (Jeff Newberry) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:20 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Chapbook Available for Preorders Message-ID: <731bb17a0807071026x16b7dc83y38223555d4b175d6@mail.gmail.com> Hello everyone, My chapbook, A Visible Sign, is now available for pre-ordering over at Finishing Line Press (http://www.finishinglinepress.com/). If you order now, the fine editors at Finishing Line will send you A Visible Sign when it is published in September--with no shipping costs! So, why not cruise over to Finishing Line's online bookstore( http://www.finishinglinepress.com/2006newreleasesandforthcomingtitles.htm) & scroll down until you find my name? I'd be greatly appreciative; & come September, you'll have a well-made, finely-designed chapbook. Best, Jeff Newberry -- Blog: http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080707/e4a1b2ff/attachment.html From atelierjewelweed at gmail.com Mon Jul 7 14:19:09 2008 From: atelierjewelweed at gmail.com (Suzanne Burns) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:21 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetry Generator Website Message-ID: A long while back, somebody posted about a website which featured a computerized poetry generator. Usually these things strike me as novelties, but as I recall this one had some pretty sophisticated programming-- you could enter parameters for a number of characteristics and toss in a fragment to prime the pump. It also had a separate page for poems that the author began with the generator and then massaged into more complete works. I tried it out and copied the results into my journal, then buffed them up a bit. This weekend I reread that part and though "Dayum, this isn't half bad at all". This coming weekend I am hosting a workshop with some fellow poets, and I thought it might be interesting to share the link.... Alas, I cannot find it anywhere! Nor can I find the emails I sent to the author-- I suspect that correspondence went the way of my old defunct email address. I am positive I heard about it in this list. Does this ring a bell to anyone? Many thanks! Suzanne -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080707/cd71c1a3/attachment.html From cervantes.james at gmail.com Mon Jul 7 16:23:26 2008 From: cervantes.james at gmail.com (James Cervantes) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:21 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] en serio Message-ID: <648208b60807071323n64be52b0see585d0f803a057c@mail.gmail.com> Is there a counterpart in poetry to the kind of music composed of no music? -- Jim ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning http://www.fieralingue.it/documenti/mr_bondo.pdf http://www.poetserv.org/jvc/home/index.html http://home.earthlink.net/~jvcervantes/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/12364573@N08/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080707/d77de926/attachment.html From AlMaginnes at aol.com Mon Jul 7 16:32:51 2008 From: AlMaginnes at aol.com (AlMaginnes@aol.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:21 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] en serio Message-ID: Tex Wood once had a poem called "Love Poem To My Ex Wife" and a blank page. James Wirght had a similar construction in one of his books for a horse who ate one of his poems. **************Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for fuel-efficient used cars. (http://autos.aol.com/used?ncid=aolaut00050000000007) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080707/b5d9ae02/attachment.html From editor at pavementsaw.org Mon Jul 7 17:06:48 2008 From: editor at pavementsaw.org (David Baratier) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:21 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: chapbook In-Reply-To: <200807071600.m67G03kG001261@wiz.cath.vt.edu> Message-ID: <683015.5162.qm@web45611.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Jeff-- ? Why with Finishing Line press? You seem to be a better poet than using a vanity publisher. Be well David Baratier, Editor Pavement Saw Press 321 Empire Street Montpelier OH 43543 http://pavementsaw.org Subscribe to our e-mail listserv at http://pavementsaw.org/list/?p=subscribe&id=1 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080707/2d3c64c4/attachment.html From halvard at earthlink.net Mon Jul 7 19:14:33 2008 From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:21 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] en serio In-Reply-To: <648208b60807071323n64be52b0see585d0f803a057c@mail.gmail.com> References: <648208b60807071323n64be52b0see585d0f803a057c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Coming up in my next message, Jim. Hal "A poem is untoward." --Heather McHugh Halvard Johnson ================ halvard@earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html On Jul 7, 2008, at 3:23 PM, James Cervantes wrote: > Is there a counterpart in poetry to the kind of music composed of no > music? > > -- Jim > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org > http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning > http://www.fieralingue.it/documenti/mr_bondo.pdf > http://www.poetserv.org/jvc/home/index.html > http://home.earthlink.net/~jvcervantes/ > http://www.flickr.com/photos/12364573@N08/ > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080707/7b13d909/attachment.html From halvard at earthlink.net Mon Jul 7 19:15:02 2008 From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:21 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] en serio In-Reply-To: <648208b60807071323n64be52b0see585d0f803a057c@mail.gmail.com> References: <648208b60807071323n64be52b0see585d0f803a057c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <87A42BA5-CC00-4F6F-935C-2E99749DDB5D@earthlink.net> From cervantes.james at gmail.com Mon Jul 7 19:32:42 2008 From: cervantes.james at gmail.com (James Cervantes) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:21 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] en serio In-Reply-To: <87A42BA5-CC00-4F6F-935C-2E99749DDB5D@earthlink.net> References: <648208b60807071323n64be52b0see585d0f803a057c@mail.gmail.com> <87A42BA5-CC00-4F6F-935C-2E99749DDB5D@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <648208b60807071632y5c0f5051vbc2d33ae7468016a@mail.gmail.com> On Mon, Jul 7, 2008 at 6:15 PM, Halvard Johnson wrote: > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > I thoroughly enjoyed that. More, more! -- Jim -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080707/07d5af99/attachment.html From grahamd at ripon.edu Mon Jul 7 23:37:47 2008 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:21 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Tom Disch In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <35ED9FED-7F22-445D-BDBE-12B5BA58DDAA@ripon.edu> I guess I'm glad I never came under Disch's scrutiny. He was very good at pricking balloons, and a hell of a craftsman. For example: Some Poets Who Shall Be Nameless Donald I never read him when he was the rage, And now his reputation's so much faded. Sad truth, that at a certain age One's appetite for earnestness is jaded. Larry Who squandered his youth and found himself, In middle age, a nondescript and common whore. Although you'll not find his books on your shelf, He had a blast. They don't make his kind anymore! Alfred Though better than the critics have maintained, Your verse is not the beaten gold you think it. But "vapid"? No, nor altogether "strained." Just chill and , even at its best, a trinket. --Tom Disch Slope 17 http://www.slope.org/archive/issue17/FU_disch.html ======================================== David Graham grahamd@ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.mac.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== On Jul 7, 2008, at 11:44 AM, Rsgwynn1@cs.com wrote: > Though best known for his fiction, Tom was a wonderful poet and > critic. > > http://www.boingboing.net/2008/07/06/rip-thomas-m-disch.html > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080707/9e52184b/attachment.html From Opus40-01 at opus40.org Tue Jul 8 08:06:45 2008 From: Opus40-01 at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:21 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Tom Disch In-Reply-To: <35ED9FED-7F22-445D-BDBE-12B5BA58DDAA@ripon.edu> References: <35ED9FED-7F22-445D-BDBE-12B5BA58DDAA@ripon.edu> Message-ID: <48735855.4060604@opus40.org> I can't scan Larry. Reminds me of J. V. Cunningham. Though for my money, the best poet-savaging epigram is still cummings on Louis Untermeyer: mr u will not be missed who as an anthologist sold the many on the few not excluding mr u David Graham wrote: > I guess I'm glad I never came under Disch's scrutiny. > > He was very good at pricking balloons, and a hell of a craftsman. For > example: > > *Some Poets Who Shall Be Nameless* > > > / Donald/ > > I never read him when he was the rage, > And now his reputation's so much faded. > Sad truth, that at a certain age > One's appetite for earnestness is jaded. > > > > > > / Larry/ > > Who squandered his youth and found himself, > In middle age, a nondescript and common whore. > Although you'll not find his books on your shelf, > He had a blast. They don't make his kind anymore! > > > > > > / Alfred/ > > Though better than the critics have maintained, > Your verse is not the beaten gold you think it. > But "vapid"? No, nor altogether "strained." > Just chill and , even at its best, a trinket. > > --Tom Disch > /Slope / 17 > http://www.slope.org/archive/issue17/FU_disch.html > > ======================================== > David Graham > grahamd@ripon.edu > > Home Page: > http://web.mac.com/drjazz > > Poetry Library: > http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html > ========================================== > > > > > On Jul 7, 2008, at 11:44 AM, Rsgwynn1@cs.com > wrote: > >> Though best known for his fiction, Tom was a wonderful poet and critic. >> >> http://www.boingboing.net/2008/07/06/rip-thomas-m-disch.html >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ The moral is this: in American verse, The better you are, the pay is worse. --Corey Ford From david.weinstock at gmail.com Tue Jul 8 09:01:36 2008 From: david.weinstock at gmail.com (David Weinstock) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:21 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Tom Disch In-Reply-To: <48735855.4060604@opus40.org> References: <35ED9FED-7F22-445D-BDBE-12B5BA58DDAA@ripon.edu> <48735855.4060604@opus40.org> Message-ID: <437b1e3a0807080601r7138f39n6dd1bc1d0c19a40e@mail.gmail.com> The NY Times obit for Tom Disch ( http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/08/books/08disch.html?ref=obituaries ) makes me wish I had known him. And who knew he wrote "Brave Little Toaster"? I guess all the best children's authors are deeply warped (e.g. Shel Silverstein, Roald Dahl, James Barrie, Lewis Carroll) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080708/ce6fac52/attachment.html From halvard at earthlink.net Tue Jul 8 10:11:25 2008 From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:21 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Hamilton Stone Review, Issue 15, Summer 2008, Now Online! Message-ID: <029EE53E-52A9-4DB4-A052-9F63906A663F@earthlink.net> Hamilton Stone Review, Issue 15, Summer 2008, Now Online! Featuring poetry by Alan Bramhall, Janet Butler, Craig Cotter, Chad Heltzel, Reamy Jansen, Sheila Murphy and Douglas Barbour, Rick Marlatt, Simon Perchik, Meg Pokrass, Gabriele Quartero, Joseph Somoza, Ron Winkler, and Robert E. Wood; plus fiction by Nora Costello, Hallie Elizabeth Newton, J.C. Frampton, Sharmila Mukherjee, and Luke Rolfes. http://www.hamiltonstone.org/hsr15.html Submissions to the Hamilton Stone Review We publish three times a year: in June, October, and February. Please send 1-7 poems in the body of your message and/or in ONE attachment; one story or up to three short shorts per message and/or attachment, please. Send bios with submissions. No snailmail submissions will be read. The October 2008 issue will be a special one devoted to Appalachia. No submissions, please. For the February 2009 issue poetry submissions should go directly to Halvard Johnson at halvard@earthlink.net. Send fiction to Lynda Schor at lyndaschor@earthlink.net . PLEASE SEND THIS ALONG TO OTHERS -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080708/732ccee7/attachment.html From lsgrimes at stonegulch.com Tue Jul 8 11:22:01 2008 From: lsgrimes at stonegulch.com (Linda Sue Grimes) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:21 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Hamilton Stone Review, Issue 15, Summer 2008, Now Online! References: <029EE53E-52A9-4DB4-A052-9F63906A663F@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <004501c8e10e$5f700df0$0201a8c0@LindaSue> That bright orange pains my old eyes.... lsg ----- Original Message ----- From: Halvard Johnson To: NewPoetry: & Views Sent: Tuesday, July 08, 2008 9:11 AM Subject: [New-Poetry] Hamilton Stone Review, Issue 15, Summer 2008,Now Online! Hamilton Stone Review, Issue 15, Summer 2008, Now Online! Featuring poetry by Alan Bramhall, Janet Butler, Craig Cotter, Chad Heltzel, Reamy Jansen, Sheila Murphy and Douglas Barbour, Rick Marlatt, Simon Perchik, Meg Pokrass, Gabriele Quartero, Joseph Somoza, Ron Winkler, and Robert E. Wood; plus fiction by Nora Costello, Hallie Elizabeth Newton, J.C. Frampton, Sharmila Mukherjee, and Luke Rolfes. http://www.hamiltonstone.org/hsr15.html Submissions to the Hamilton Stone Review We publish three times a year: in June, October, and February. Please send 1-7 poems in the body of your message and/or in ONE attachment; one story or up to three short shorts per message and/or attachment, please. Send bios with submissions. No snailmail submissions will be read. The October 2008 issue will be a special one devoted to Appalachia. No submissions, please. For the February 2009 issue poetry submissions should go directly to Halvard Johnson at halvard@earthlink.net. Send fiction to Lynda Schor at lyndaschor@earthlink.net. PLEASE SEND THIS ALONG TO OTHERS ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080708/2e56b9ef/attachment.html From rog3r.day at gmail.com Tue Jul 8 14:02:40 2008 From: rog3r.day at gmail.com (Roger Day) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:21 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Tom Disch In-Reply-To: <48735855.4060604@opus40.org> References: <35ED9FED-7F22-445D-BDBE-12B5BA58DDAA@ripon.edu> <48735855.4060604@opus40.org> Message-ID: Alfred seems to want "think it is". Most of it seems a little strained. Roger On Tue, Jul 8, 2008 at 1:06 PM, TheOldMole wrote: > I can't scan Larry. > > Reminds me of J. V. Cunningham. > > Though for my money, the best poet-savaging epigram is still cummings on > Louis Untermeyer: > > mr u will not be missed > who as an anthologist > sold the many on the few > not excluding mr u > > > > > David Graham wrote: >> >> I guess I'm glad I never came under Disch's scrutiny. >> He was very good at pricking balloons, and a hell of a craftsman. For >> example: >> >> *Some Poets Who Shall Be Nameless* >> / Donald/ >> I never read him when he was the rage, >> And now his reputation's so much faded. >> Sad truth, that at a certain age >> One's appetite for earnestness is jaded. >> / Larry/ >> Who squandered his youth and found himself, >> In middle age, a nondescript and common whore. >> Although you'll not find his books on your shelf, >> He had a blast. They don't make his kind anymore! >> / Alfred/ >> Though better than the critics have maintained, >> Your verse is not the beaten gold you think it. >> But "vapid"? No, nor altogether "strained." >> Just chill and , even at its best, a trinket. >> --Tom Disch >> /Slope / 17 >> http://www.slope.org/archive/issue17/FU_disch.html >> >> ======================================== >> David Graham >> grahamd@ripon.edu >> >> Home Page: >> http://web.mac.com/drjazz >> >> Poetry Library: >> http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html >> ========================================== >> >> >> >> >> On Jul 7, 2008, at 11:44 AM, Rsgwynn1@cs.com >> wrote: >> >>> Though best known for his fiction, Tom was a wonderful poet and critic. >>> >>> http://www.boingboing.net/2008/07/06/rip-thomas-m-disch.html >>> _______________________________________________ >>> New-Poetry mailing list >>> New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu >>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> > > -- > Tad Richards > http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ > http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ > > The moral is this: in American verse, > The better you are, the pay is worse. > --Corey Ford > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- My Stuff: http://www.badstep.net/ "I began to warm and chill to objects and their fields" Nick Cave & The Bad Seeds From blacksox at att.net Tue Jul 8 21:45:41 2008 From: blacksox at att.net (blacksox@att.net) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:22 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetry Generator Website Message-ID: <070920080145.21701.487418450004EF61000054C522243651029B0A02D29B9B0EBF98019C050C0E040D@att.net> Are you thinking of Beard of bees? Russ -------------- next part -------------- Skipped content of type multipart/related From jforjames at aol.com Wed Jul 9 12:11:51 2008 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames@aol.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:22 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Perloff on Kleinzahler Message-ID: <8CAAFF5A1AFADA2-15CC-275@FWM-M32.sysops.aol.com> http://entertainment.timesonline.co.uk/tol/arts_and_entertainment/the_tls/article4302416.ece July 9, 2008 August Kleinzahler's ugly gifts Kleinzahler?s New York makes the London of T. S. Eliot?s Waste Land seems almost pastoral Marjorie Perloff In an arresting poem called ?Meat?, August Kleinzahler wonders: How much meat moves Into the city each night The decks of its bridges tremble In the liquefaction of sodium light And the moon a chemical orange The monstrous ?Semitrailers strain[ing] their axles? as they ?take the long curve / Over warehouses and lofts? to pour their guts into Manhattan, clog ?the city?s shimmering membrane? with ?tons of dead lamb / Bone and flesh and offal?. Garbage in, garbage out: the city where this cycle takes place is ?A giant breathing cell / Exhaling its waste / From the stacks by the river / And feeding through the night?. Compared to the sheer, unrelieved ugliness of Kleinzahler?s New York, the London of T. S. Eliot?s Waste Land seems almost pastoral. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080709/4d2b8f9e/attachment.html From pmetres at jcu.edu Wed Jul 9 14:49:39 2008 From: pmetres at jcu.edu (Philip Metres) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:22 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] today on POETRY DAILY: "For the Fifty (Who Made Peace With Their Bodies)" Message-ID: <20080709144939.BRD20944@mirapoint.jcu.edu> >From the shameless self-promotion department, I wanted to let you know about today's poem,"For the Fifty (Who Made Peace With Their Bodies)".... http://www.poems.com Thanks for reading, Philip Metres Associate Professor Department of English John Carroll University 20700 N. Park Blvd University Heights, OH 44118 phone: (216) 397-4528 (work) fax: (216) 397-1723 http://www.philipmetres.com http://www.behindthelinespoetry.blogspot.com From Opus40-01 at opus40.org Wed Jul 9 15:01:57 2008 From: Opus40-01 at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:22 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] today on POETRY DAILY: "For the Fifty (Who Made Peace With Their Bodies)" In-Reply-To: <20080709144939.BRD20944@mirapoint.jcu.edu> References: <20080709144939.BRD20944@mirapoint.jcu.edu> Message-ID: <48750B25.8030605@opus40.org> Good job., Philip Metres wrote: > >From the shameless self-promotion department, I wanted to let you know about today's poem,"For the Fifty (Who Made Peace With Their Bodies)".... > > http://www.poems.com > > Thanks for reading, > > Philip Metres > Associate Professor > Department of English > John Carroll University > 20700 N. Park Blvd > University Heights, OH 44118 > phone: (216) 397-4528 (work) > fax: (216) 397-1723 > http://www.philipmetres.com > http://www.behindthelinespoetry.blogspot.com > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ The moral is this: in American verse, The better you are, the pay is worse. --Corey Ford From jeff.newberry at gmail.com Wed Jul 9 15:05:57 2008 From: jeff.newberry at gmail.com (Jeff Newberry) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:22 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] today on POETRY DAILY: "For the Fifty (Who Made Peace With Their Bodies)" In-Reply-To: <20080709144939.BRD20944@mirapoint.jcu.edu> References: <20080709144939.BRD20944@mirapoint.jcu.edu> Message-ID: <731bb17a0807091205w2c1b3d2ame7b08bc53193d68e@mail.gmail.com> I started to post this myself, Philip. That's a fine poem; I love the sound of it read aloud. I also love the mileage you get out of line breaks. Congrats. For those of us not in the know, how did it work? Did the people at PD contact you directly, or did your publisher give them the poem? Best, Jeff Newberry On Wed, Jul 9, 2008 at 2:49 PM, Philip Metres wrote: > >From the shameless self-promotion department, I wanted to let you know > about today's poem,"For the Fifty (Who Made Peace With Their Bodies)".... > > http://www.poems.com > > Thanks for reading, > > Philip Metres > Associate Professor > Department of English > John Carroll University > 20700 N. Park Blvd > University Heights, OH 44118 > phone: (216) 397-4528 (work) > fax: (216) 397-1723 > http://www.philipmetres.com > http://www.behindthelinespoetry.blogspot.com > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Blog: http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080709/9b0ac387/attachment.html From AlMaginnes at aol.com Wed Jul 9 16:09:16 2008 From: AlMaginnes at aol.com (AlMaginnes@aol.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:22 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] today on POETRY DAILY: "For the Fifty (Who Made Peace With T... Message-ID: In my (limited) experience with PD, they contact the publisher. Unlike Verse Daily, they do let you know the poem is going to be online. A lot of journals now routinely ask you to sign a release for PD if they accept a poem. Al **************Get the scoop on last night's hottest shows and the live music scene in your area - Check out TourTracker.com! (http://www.tourtracker.com?NCID=aolmus00050000000112) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080709/fc32ec10/attachment.html From jforjames at aol.com Wed Jul 9 20:49:55 2008 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames@aol.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:22 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: Q&A with Charles Wright and More! In-Reply-To: <29506268.125591215425174695.JavaMail.root@ptmail1.pt.local> References: <29506268.125591215425174695.JavaMail.root@ptmail1.pt.local> Message-ID: <8CAB03E012ADB54-FE8-ABE@mblk-d13.sysops.aol.com> -----Original Message----- From: 92nd Street Y Literary Reading & Writing Workshops <92y@92y.pmailus.com> To: jforjames@aol.com Sent: Mon, 7 Jul 2008 6:06 am Subject: Q&A with Charles Wright and More! Sent by: 92nd Street Y Reply to the sender Pick up a book by one of our upcoming 08/09 authors! Q&A with Charles Wright Summer Reads: Ozick, Mosley and Beattie Become a Poetry Center Member Today 08/09 Season Memberships Memberships for our 70th anniversary season are now available. Become a Member Now Check out Podium, the Unterberg Poetry Center's online literary magazine. Read student work and author interviews, listen to podcasts, watch video clips and more -- free! The featured photographer is Jason Geller. Q&A with Charles Wright Poet Charles Wright, winner of the National Book Award and the Pulitzer Prize, will read at the 92nd Street Y with Natasha Trethewey on Monday, April 8, 2009. Recently we had a chance to ask him a few questions about his work. Our questions, and his replies, follow: What led you to move from the compact, image-rich poems of early books like Bloodlines and?China Trace?to the longer, perhaps more meditative lines of more recent work, such as Black Zodiac? Can you identify a moment in your career when this shift in style occurred, and discuss the reasons for it? It was a conscious decision on my part and it came after I had finished China Trace. I thought I had compressed the line and the poem as tightly as I could up to that point, and decided I should try to lengthen the line and perhaps the poem somewhat. In fact my initial thought was to take the line as far in the direction of prose as I could without it actually tumbling into prose. I still thought of the line as image-freighted, however, and so the longer it got the more often it seemed to break into two parts -- hence, that low-rider, or half-line, that sort of developed itself on its own. This would all have happened around 1977 when I wrote the poem, "Homage to Paul C?zanne." Two places, among others, that strongly resonate in your work are Italy and Appalachia. What kinds of perspective have your travels given you on your birthplace, and, briefly, why do you think place is so significant in your poems? The perspective I have gained from my travels vis-?-vis the places I grew up in is rather pedestrian, actually: everywhere I went seemed more exotic and beautiful than where I came from. That altered over time and I began to see the similarities. Everything of course is local, from politics to salvation, and as long as one doesn't confuse the two, place can be a handy springboard to either. It has been remarked that your "trilogy of trilogies" bears a structural resemblance to the Commedia. How important is a working knowledge of Dante to a reader's understanding of your poems? A working knowledge of Dante would be helpful to a reader's understanding of my "trilogy of trilogies," as it would to the reader's life. Dante of course was very important to me personally and should be to any person, but I do not think a reader of my books necessarily has to have read the Commedia. Are you willing to briefly discuss a project that is currently underway? I am currently not engaged in any project as such. I recently finished two, however; one has been published, a long poem, as the book Littlefoot in 2007. The next thing I tried was a group of very short poems, each six lines, to be entitled "Sestets," and it will be published in a year or so. Purchase a season membership today for guaranteed seating at Charles Wright's reading and all Poetry Center Main Reading Series events. Become a Member Now Summer Reads: Ozick, Mosley and Beattie We continue our summer reading feature with an installment focusing on new books by some of the authors who will join award-winning host Roger Rosenblatt for wide-ranging interviews during our Afternoon Night Table series in the coming season. Cynthia Ozick, winner of the 2008 PEN/Nabokov Award for lifetime achievement, has received rave reviews -- and the PEN/Malamud Award -- for her new book, Dictation, a quartet of novellas. Critic Michael Upchurch wrote: "Feverish, funny, visceral, cerebral -- the fiction of Cynthia Ozick is all these things." Cynthia Ozick appears at the 92nd Street Y on Wednesday, October 29, at 1pm. Blonde Faith, Walter Mosley's tenth Easy Rawlins thriller, is due to appear in paperback in August. Jabari Asim, writing of this book in The New York Times, had this to say: "It could very well be that we critics fail to fully appreciate Mosley?s talents because his Rawlins mysteries appear to come off so effortlessly. They bring to mind a former N.B.A. All-Star?s modest attempt to explain his otherworldy playmaking to a group of ordinary mortals. 'If it looks easy,' he said, 'it?s not.'" Walter Mosley appears at the 92nd Street Y on Wednesday, November 19, at 1 pm. Ann Beattie's most recent collection of stories is Follies, now in paperback. Wrote The New York Times: "The best stories in Follies feel sharp and shrewd; they move away from the surface and find challenging techniques and language." Ann Beattie appears at the 92nd Street Y on Friday, March 20, at 1 pm. Purchase Tickets Become a Poetry Center Member Today Special events include A Celebration of Maurice Sendak with Tony Kushner, rescheduled as our season opener on September 15; Gogol at 200, with Ken Kalfus, Gary Saul Morson, Gary Shteyngart and Lara Vapnyar; The Tenth Muse with Kay Ryan; The Critic?s Voice I: Daniel Mendelsohn on Cavafy; and The Critic?s Voice II: David Grossman on Bruno Schulz. Check our website frequently, as the complete fall lineup will soon be posted. Next season's Main Reading Series will feature some of the finest authors writing today: Marilynne Robinson, John Ashbery, Toni Morrison, W.S. Merwin, Charles Wright, Lucille Clifton, Amitav Ghosh, Jamaica Kincaid, Charles Simic, Isabel Allende, Breyten Breytenbach, Jayne Anne Phillips, T.C. Boyle and Richard Wilbur, to name just a few. Writers making their debuts at the Unterberg Poetry Center include Junot D?az, Natasha Trethewey, Can Xue, Barry Unsworth, Julia Hartwig and Rae Armantrout.? Memberships for the 2008-2009 Season are available at $250 for single membership and $440 for couples. Benefits include: ? Free admission plus Priority Seating at all Main Reading Series events (members are admitted 15 minutes before ticket-holders; all seats are unreserved) ? One discounted $10 companion ticket to a Main Reading Series event (subject to availability) ? 15% discount on subscriptions or single tickets to the Biographers & Brunch and Critics & Brunch Sunday lecture series, as well as to Afternoon Night Table and the new Children's Readings Series ? Free membership, with borrowing privileges, to the 92nd Street Y Buttenwieser Library, including access to archival recordings of Poetry Center programs from 1949 to the present.?? Please join us for what promises to be an exceptional season!? Become a Member Now Watch videos of 92nd Street Y events on YouTube and join us on Facebook! Every program at the 92nd Street Y is made possible by charitable donations from individuals like you. DONATE NOW. Order Online and Save 50% on All Service Fees! 92nd Street Y Lexington Avenue at 92nd Street, 212.415.5500 www.92Y.org All programs are subject to change. You can update your eNews preferences?any time?by visiting www.92Y.org/myprofile This e-mail was sent from 92nd Street Y Immediate removal with PatronMail? SecureUnsubscribe. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080709/1b67acac/attachment.html From jforjames at aol.com Wed Jul 9 21:58:16 2008 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames@aol.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:22 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Tom Disch In-Reply-To: <35ED9FED-7F22-445D-BDBE-12B5BA58DDAA@ripon.edu> References: <35ED9FED-7F22-445D-BDBE-12B5BA58DDAA@ripon.edu> Message-ID: <8CAB0478DD93258-122C-1B2F@webmail-dd06.sysops.aol.com> Is that Hall, Levis, & Corn? He got the 'nameless; right. I think the funny part is that someone takes the time/effort to?epigrammatically skewer poets who haven't penetrated the public consciousness. I don't get it. Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: David Graham Sent: Mon, 7 Jul 2008 11:37 pm Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Tom Disch I guess I'm glad I never came under Disch's scrutiny. ? He was very good at pricking balloons, and a hell of a craftsman. ?For example: Some Poets Who Shall Be Nameless ? ? ????????? Donald ? I never read him when he was the rage, And now his reputation's so much faded. Sad truth, that at a certain age One's appetite for earnestness is jaded. ? ? ? ? ? ????????? Larry ? Who squandered his youth and found himself, In middle age, a nondescript and common whore. Although you'll not find his books on your shelf, He had a blast.? They don't make his kind anymore! ? ? ? ? ? ???????? Alfred ? Though better than the critics have maintained, Your verse is not the beaten gold you think it. But "vapid"? No, nor altogether "strained." Just chill and , even at its best, a trinket. ? --Tom Disch Slope ?17 http://www.slope.org/archive/issue17/FU_disch.html ======================================== David Graham grahamd@ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.mac.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== On Jul 7, 2008, at 11:44 AM, Rsgwynn1@cs.com wrote: Though best known for his fiction, Tom was a wonderful poet and critic. http://www.boingboing.net/2008/07/06/rip-thomas-m-disch.html _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry = _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080709/ead30bb7/attachment.html From pmetres at jcu.edu Thu Jul 10 14:18:22 2008 From: pmetres at jcu.edu (Philip Metres) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:22 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetry Daily Message-ID: <20080710141822.BRG60460@mirapoint.jcu.edu> Yes, my publisher sent a book to Poetry Daily, and lo and behold, they read it and found something they liked. That's really all you can do. Send and hope for the best. Philip Metres Associate Professor Department of English John Carroll University 20700 N. Park Blvd University Heights, OH 44118 phone: (216) 397-4528 (work) fax: (216) 397-1723 http://www.philipmetres.com http://www.behindthelinespoetry.blogspot.com From tony at starve.org Thu Jul 10 14:30:15 2008 From: tony at starve.org (Tony Trigilio) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:22 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Registration reminder, The Beat Generation Symposium, Columbia College Chicago (Oct. 10-11, 2008) Message-ID: <48765537.5060804@starve.org> Hi everyone-- I'm writing with a reminder that registration is now being accepted for The Beat Generation Symposium at Columbia College Chicago. Please keep in mind that our pre-registration discount ends August 1. Conference fee for those who pre-register before August 1: $50 ($25 for Graduate Students, Independent Scholars, and Retired Faculty). After August 1, the fees are $100 and $50. We now have the option for registering by credit card. If you'd like to do this, call the Columbia Ticket Office at 312-344-6600, or register online at: www.colum.edu/tickets/index.php Thanks, and hope to see you there-- Best, Tony *********************************************** THE BEAT GENERATION SYMPOSIUM *********************************************** Please join us for a conference devoted to the literary and cultural legacy of the Beat Generation: "The Beat Generation Symposium," co-sponosored by the Beat Studies Association, the Columbia College Chicago English Department, Columbia College's Ellen Stone Belic Institute for the Study of Women and Gender in the Arts and Media, and Illinois State University. Friday, October 10, and Saturday, October 11, 2008. Location: Columbia College Chicago, Film Row Theater (1104 South Wabash Avenue, 8th floor). This is an academic Beat Studies conference to be held in conjunction with the Columbia College's Center for the Book and Paper Arts's Fall 2008 display of the Jack Kerouac ON THE ROAD manuscript scroll. The Beat Generation Symposium features panel discussions each day, with poetry readings by Joanne Kyger (October 10) and Diane di Prima (October 11). Panelists include John Bryant, Peter Cook, Terrance Diggory, Jane Falk, Amy Friedman, Deborah R. Geis, Nancy M. Grace, Tim Hunt, Rob Johnson, Ronna Johnson, Hassan Melehy, Timothy Murphy, Jennie Skerl, Matt Theado, Tony Trigilio, and more. Conference fee for those who pre-register before August 1: $50 ($25 for Graduate Students, Independent Scholars, and Retired Faculty). After August 1, the fees are $100 and $50. Checks should be made payable to Columbia College Chicago, and should be sent to: Columbia Ticket Center 33 East Congress St., Suite 610 Chicago, IL 60605 Ph: 312-344-6600 (fax 312-344-8470) columbiatickets@colum.edu To register by credit card, call the Columbia Ticket Office at the number above, or register online at: www.colum.edu/tickets/index.php A limited number of hotel rooms are available at the Homewood Suites by Hilton Chicago-Downtown, 40 East Grand Avenue, Chicago. This hotel is a very short cab or subway ride from the Columbia campus. The Homewood Suites prepared a special link for us to book online. Just click below and you'll find directions for reserving a room: http://homewoodsuites.hilton.com/en/hw/groups/personalized/CHIHWHW-CLC-20081009/index.jhtml It's important that you book your room as soon as possible, as the Chicago Marathon is taking place October 12. (We only discovered this convergence recently, after we'd already booked the featured readers.) A Visitor's Guide for the Beat Symposium is pasted below, with a list of nearby hotels. Columbia College Chicago is located downtown, in the heart of the city's South Loop neighborhood, and is easily accessible from these hotels by foot or cab. All major subway/El trains come into the South Loop, too, so it's possible to book hotels in other parts of the city and make it to the Symposium without difficulty. Mention that you're a Columbia College Chicago visitor to receive discounted rates at some of these hotels. It's crucial to book as soon as possible because of the marathon. For more information, contact Tony Trigilio at ttrigilio@colum.edu (312-344-8138). VISITOR'S GUIDE: THE BEAT GENERATION SYMPOSIUM Airports: O'Hare Airport (western suburbs) and Midway Airport (southern suburbs) are the two airports servicing the Chicgao area. They are approximately equidistant from Columbia College. Transportation: >From Midway Airport, take the Orange Line elevated train to Adams Street. From there, walk south on Wabash until you reach Congress Parkway. From O'Hare Airport, take the Blue Line to La Salle. Walk East on Congress (away from the Chicago Stock Exchange Building, which you'll see upon emerging from the subway) until you reach Wabash (about 5 short blocks). Use www.transitchicago.com's free Trip Planner service to plan the rest of your trips while you're here. Simply enter your starting point and destination, and Trip Planner gives you detailed directions. As of 2008, fares are $2.00 one-way with a $0.25 transfer. Each train station has kiosks where you can buy transit cards and reload them (cash only). The Blue Line and Red Line run 24/7; the other lines stop running for a few hours late at night. Taxis are available throughout the city. From Midway Airport to the English Department, cab fare would be approximately $25 and from O'Hare Airport cab fare would be approximately $50. If you need to call a cab, call (773) or (312) TAXICAB. Metra Trains service suburban areas. Visit www.metrarail.com for an updated schedule and fare list. LIST OF NEARBY HOTELS The Hilton and Towers 722 S Michigan Ave (0.2 miles from the English Department) (312) 922-4400 The Palmer House Hilton 17 E Monroe St (0.4 miles away) (312) 726-7500 or 1-800-HILTONS The Best Western Grant Park 1100 S Michigan Ave (0.6 mi) (312) 922-2900 Travelodge 65 E Harrison St (0.1 mi) (312) 427-8000 Hotel Blake 500 S Dearborn St (0.3 mi) (312) 986-1234 www.hyatt.com> Blackstone Hotel 819 S Wabash Ave # 606 (0.3 mi) (312) 447-0955 marriott.com The Silversmith Hotel 10 S Wabash Ave (0.4 mi) (312) 372-7696 silversmithchicagohotel.com Omni Ambassador East 1301 S State St (0.7 mi) (312) 787-3700 Embassy Suites Hotel Chicago-Downtown 600 North State Street (1.5 mi) (312) 943-3800 embassysuites.com Essex Inn Hotel 800 S Michigan Ave (0.3 mi) (312) 939-2800 essexinn.com Club Quarters: Hotel 111 W Adams St (0.4 mi) (312) 214-6400 clubquarters.com W Hotels-Chicago City Center 172 W Adams St (0.4 mi) (312) 332-1200 starwoodhotels.com Hostelling International Chicago 24 E Congress Pkwy (0.1 mi) (312) 360-0300 hichicago.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080710/f051d202/attachment.html From jforjames at aol.com Thu Jul 10 22:37:05 2008 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames@aol.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:22 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Tom Disch In-Reply-To: <8CAB0478DD93258-122C-1B2F@webmail-dd06.sysops.aol.com> References: <35ED9FED-7F22-445D-BDBE-12B5BA58DDAA@ripon.edu> <8CAB0478DD93258-122C-1B2F@webmail-dd06.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <8CAB11624079E55-14C0-1FCE@webmail-dd20.sysops.aol.com> I like Disch's biker tatoos and crossed arm pose?on the?cover of?_The Castle of Indolence_. There is no accounting for depression (or any form of mental illness) but I wonder if Disch considered poetry his 'first art'? Reading the various biographies one would think him a?success. I'm surprised the sci-fi genre didn't provide more of a?fi cushion for him. But I guess not. Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: jforjames@aol.com To: new-poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Wed, 9 Jul 2008 9:58 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Re: Tom Disch Is that Hall, Levis, & Corn? He got the 'nameless; right. I think the funny part is that someone takes the time/effort to?epigrammatically skewer poets who haven't penetrated the public consciousness. I don't get it. Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: David Graham Sent: Mon, 7 Jul 2008 11:37 pm Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Tom Disch I guess I'm glad I never came under Disch's scrutiny. ? He was very good at pricking balloons, and a hell of a craftsman. ?For example: Some Poets Who Shall Be Nameless ? ? ????????? Donald ? I never read him when he was the rage, And now his reputation's so much faded. Sad truth, that at a certain age One's appetite for earnestness is jaded. ? ? ? ? ? ????????? Larry ? Who squandered his youth and found himself, In middle age, a nondescript and common whore. Although you'll not find his books on your shelf, He had a blast.? They don't make his kind anymore! ? ? ? ? ? ???????? Alfred ? Though better than the critics have maintained, Your verse is not the beaten gold you think it. But "vapid"? No, nor altogether "strained." Just chill and , even at its best, a trinket. ? --Tom Disch Slope ?17 http://www.slope.org/archive/issue17/FU_disch.html ======================================== David Graham grahamd@ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.mac.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== On Jul 7, 2008, at 11:44 AM, Rsgwynn1@cs.com wrote: Though best known for his fiction, Tom was a wonderful poet and critic. http://www.boingboing.net/2008/07/06/rip-thomas-m-disch.html _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry = _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry The Famous, the Infamous, the Lame - in your browser. Get the TMZ Toolbar Now! _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080710/223b1cde/attachment.html From jforjames at aol.com Fri Jul 11 09:29:14 2008 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames@aol.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:23 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: PARADISE LOST!!! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8CAB1713EF17B8A-4F4-4DCB@webmail-db10.sysops.aol.com> -----Original Message----- From: susan allison To: susan allison Sent: Thu, 10 Jul 2008 9:37 pm Subject: Fwd: PARADISE LOST!!! Click here: ?? ? ? ? www.paradiselostperformances.com ?? ? ?please pass this on.................thank you!? = -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080711/ce4ca070/attachment.html From jforjames at aol.com Fri Jul 11 09:32:03 2008 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames@aol.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:23 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] SACRE COEUR - JOHN KINSELLA In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8CAB171A370E6F2-4F4-4DFB@webmail-db10.sysops.aol.com> -----Original Message----- From: ABC Radio National Books & Drama Programs Subject: ABC Radio National Books and Drama newsletter, 11-18 July ABC Radio National Books and Drama newsletter 11-18 July 2008 POETICA 12/07/2008 15:00 17/07/2008 15:00 SACRE COEUR - JOHN KINSELLA URL: http://www.abc.net.au/rn/poetica/stories/2008/2284405.htm Kinsella writes with great passion about the Western Australian Wheatlands in a kind of anti-Pastoral poetry populated with people he has encountered and the landscape he loves. He writes with urgency and alarm but also hope. =================================================================== To sign off this mail list or for further information go to: http://www.abc.net.au/rn/newsletters/booksanddrama/ If you have comments or suggestions email us at: airplay@your.abc.net.au Radio National is the Australian Broadcasting Corporation's specialist journalism and arts network, broadcasting across Australia. Radio National homepage: http://abc.net/rn Tune in: http://abc.net.au/rn/freq/map.htm -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080711/5faa4f86/attachment.html From Opus40-01 at opus40.org Fri Jul 11 09:40:27 2008 From: Opus40-01 at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:23 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] SACRE COEUR - JOHN KINSELLA In-Reply-To: <8CAB171A370E6F2-4F4-4DFB@webmail-db10.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CAB171A370E6F2-4F4-4DFB@webmail-db10.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <487762CB.7030304@opus40.org> Yes, but what will he do for pretty girls, now his old bawd is dead? jforjames@aol.com wrote: > -----Original Message----- > From: ABC Radio National Books & Drama Programs > Subject: ABC Radio National Books and Drama newsletter, 11-18 July > > ABC Radio National > Books and Drama newsletter > 11-18 July 2008 > > > POETICA > 12/07/2008 15:00 > 17/07/2008 15:00 > SACRE COEUR - JOHN KINSELLA > URL: http://www.abc.net.au/rn/poetica/stories/2008/2284405.htm > Kinsella writes with great passion about the Western Australian Wheatlands in a > kind of anti-Pastoral poetry populated with people he has encountered and the > landscape he loves. He writes with urgency and alarm but also hope. > =================================================================== > > To sign off this mail list or for further information go to: > http://www.abc.net.au/rn/newsletters/booksanddrama/ > > If you have comments or suggestions email us at: > airplay@your.abc.net.au > > Radio National is the Australian Broadcasting Corporation's specialist > journalism and arts network, broadcasting across Australia. > > Radio National homepage: http://abc.net/rn > > Tune in: http://abc.net.au/rn/freq/map.htm > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > The Famous, the Infamous, the Lame - in your browser. Get the TMZ > Toolbar Now > ! > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ The moral is this: in American verse, The better you are, the pay is worse. --Corey Ford From jforjames at aol.com Fri Jul 11 12:54:33 2008 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames@aol.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:23 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] National Poetry Slam, Madison Aug 3-9 Message-ID: <8CAB18DEDE77C58-C8C-1BB3@MBLK-M23.sysops.aol.com> http://www.poetryslam.com/ http://nps2008.com/ Almost 80 teams signed up to compete in Madison WI. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080711/dc305c2a/attachment.html From Edward.Byrne at valpo.edu Sat Jul 12 15:54:03 2008 From: Edward.Byrne at valpo.edu (Edward Byrne) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:23 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Henry David Thoreau and the Blog Message-ID: <4878C58B.7112.006E.0@valpo.edu> As I was posting an entry earlier this week, I noticed that with this week?s additions ?One Poet?s Notes? has moved beyond 200 articles on the blog. Consequently, as a re-introduction and an invitation to new readers who would like to browse through those most visited pages of the past posts on ?One Poet?s Notes,? I submit a list of the dozen most popular titles?twelve for July 12th?viewed (determined solely according to frequency figures) in the last year by users of ?One Poet?s Notes? beyond the usual entry points of the blog?s main page or the most recently posted item. In addition, today (July 12) marks Henry David Thoreau?s birthday, born in 1817. When one reads through Thoreau?s many volumes of journals, he seems to serve as an excellent early example for any blog writer. Therefore, on this day I offer a couple of brief quotations from his writings about reading books that seem appropriate to a literary blog. http://edwardbyrne.blogspot.com/2008/07/henry-david-thoreau-and-blog.html -------------------------------------------------- Edward Byrne Department of English 322 Huegli Hall Valparaiso University Valparaiso, IN 46383-6493 E-mail: edward.byrne@valpo.edu Home Page: http://www.valpo.edu/home/faculty/ebyrne/homepage/ Blog: http://edwardbyrne.blogspot.com/ Editor, Valparaiso Poetry Review E-mail: vpr@valpo.edu VPR Web Page: http://www.valpo.edu/english/vpr/ Office Phone: (219) 464-5278 Fax: (219) 464-5511 -------------------------------------------------- From Opus40-01 at opus40.org Sun Jul 13 08:31:37 2008 From: Opus40-01 at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:23 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Evil days Message-ID: <4879F5A9.203@opus40.org> Can anyone identify this? It may be from a spiritual, or from an African-American poet. In evil days he draws good from harm, His house is ablaze flames will keep me warm. -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ The moral is this: in American verse, The better you are, the pay is worse. --Corey Ford From tsmclain at gmail.com Sun Jul 13 09:38:49 2008 From: tsmclain at gmail.com (ts mclain) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:23 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] CD Wright's body count In-Reply-To: <954726.86731.qm@web54110.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <954726.86731.qm@web54110.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <9ded96600807130638h3222bf62t77442a67a4efcb54@mail.gmail.com> For me, the "numbingly weak" is a constant for almost all public poetry. Maybe that is part of its charm as well as its downfall. I agree that when you hitch up to a cause, you can be granted more of that gravitas just because people are so impressed you said exactly what they wished they had said. Like bumper stickers, these poems do not age well and they eventually reduce the value of the vehicle attached to the bumper. Who are good issue poets? I am curious what others think on this. In my limited readings on social issue poems, I liked many parts of Ginsberg's "Wichita Diamond Sutra" and I just read it forty years after it was written. Crane's "War is Kind" also has some nice sections. But both would look different if they were edited today. How about Yeats' topical/political poetry? I was never moved by it but it was fun to pick apart in the classroom. Generally, if the language used doesn't move me or create some tension, then I don't see the poem getting off to very good start. I haven't read much of C.D.Wright, but I do find that she is always about language. I don't see her as being as polemical as the worst of the issues poets can be. Maybe it shows my ingnorance, but I think the whole issue about the penal system in Arkansas is largely unexplored, as recent PBS shows on the de facto slavery resulting from post Civil War Jim Crow laws suggests. Having heard her talk about this book last Spring, I got the distinct impression that she was after more than just finger-pointing or patronizing the victims. That doesn't make for a good book, necessarily. But I am curious. Although, the limited edition is a little pricey. On Thu, Jul 3, 2008 at 8:48 PM, John Jeffrey wrote: > Jeez. Someone uses the term "politically correct" and gets a couple of > "Bullshit"s thrown back at him? And, more interestingly, the Bullshiters > then claim that the phrase "politically correct" is the "lowest denominator > of criticism" or that it's not "descriptive"? Well ain't that just the crap > calling the clich? stinky. > > What's the name of this list again? > > > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: Bob Grumman > To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views" < > new-poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu> > Sent: Thursday, July 3, 2008 7:50:54 PM > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] CD Wright's body count > > > > Suzanne Burns wrote: > > > > On Wed, Jul 2, 2008 at 1:36 PM, Bob Grumman > wrote: > >> >> >> Roger Day wrote: >> >>> "politically correct": the lowest denominator of criticism these days. >>> Something you don't like? >>> >> >> It's a descriptive term whose meaning everyone knows, Roger. > > > I disagree. It ceased to be a descriptive term a long, long time ago. > What is became is a It's a great big rubber stamp one slaps down to dismiss, > trivialize, and above all silence any discussion of a political or social > issue (especially if it concerns women) one does not want to hear about. > > I too call bullshit. If you don't like CD Wrights work, fine, but please > say something real. > > Suzanne Burns > > > I can't remember exactly what I said, but it was more or less that mediocre > poets whose political outlook mirrors the outlook of the liberal > establishment--i.e., are politically correct (and I await a better term for > what I meant)--are the ones who get grants, as CD Wright has. My > implication was that the political stance, which should be irrelevant, > counts. > > --Bob G. > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080713/22651b26/attachment.html From tsmclain at gmail.com Sun Jul 13 13:36:48 2008 From: tsmclain at gmail.com (ts mclain) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:23 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] CD Wright's body count In-Reply-To: <9ded96600807130638h3222bf62t77442a67a4efcb54@mail.gmail.com> References: <954726.86731.qm@web54110.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <9ded96600807130638h3222bf62t77442a67a4efcb54@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <9ded96600807131036o561e6faenfab16949b87f95fc@mail.gmail.com> I wanted to correct my error on the Ginsberg. That should have been "Wichita Vortex Sutra". On Sun, Jul 13, 2008 at 9:38 AM, ts mclain wrote: > For me, the "numbingly weak" is a constant for almost all public poetry. > Maybe that is part of its charm as well as its downfall. I agree that when > you hitch up to a cause, you can be granted more of that gravitas just > because people are so impressed you said exactly what they wished they had > said. Like bumper stickers, these poems do not age well and they eventually > reduce the value of the vehicle attached to the bumper. > > Who are good issue poets? I am curious what others think on this. In my > limited readings on social issue poems, I liked many parts of Ginsberg's > "Wichita Diamond Sutra" and I just read it forty years after it was written. > Crane's "War is Kind" also has some nice sections. But both would look > different if they were edited today. How about Yeats' topical/political > poetry? I was never moved by it but it was fun to pick apart in the > classroom. Generally, if the language used doesn't move me or create some > tension, then I don't see the poem getting off to very good start. > > I haven't read much of C.D.Wright, but I do find that she is always about > language. I don't see her as being as polemical as the worst of the issues > poets can be. Maybe it shows my ingnorance, but I think the whole issue > about the penal system in Arkansas is largely unexplored, as recent PBS > shows on the de facto slavery resulting from post Civil War Jim Crow laws > suggests. Having heard her talk about this book last Spring, I got the > distinct impression that she was after more than just finger-pointing or > patronizing the victims. That doesn't make for a good book, necessarily. But > I am curious. Although, the limited edition is a little pricey. > > On Thu, Jul 3, 2008 at 8:48 PM, John Jeffrey > wrote: > >> Jeez. Someone uses the term "politically correct" and gets a couple of >> "Bullshit"s thrown back at him? And, more interestingly, the Bullshiters >> then claim that the phrase "politically correct" is the "lowest denominator >> of criticism" or that it's not "descriptive"? Well ain't that just the crap >> calling the clich? stinky. >> >> What's the name of this list again? >> >> >> >> ----- Original Message ---- >> From: Bob Grumman >> To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views" < >> new-poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu> >> Sent: Thursday, July 3, 2008 7:50:54 PM >> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] CD Wright's body count >> >> >> >> Suzanne Burns wrote: >> >> >> >> On Wed, Jul 2, 2008 at 1:36 PM, Bob Grumman >> wrote: >> >>> >>> >>> Roger Day wrote: >>> >>>> "politically correct": the lowest denominator of criticism these days. >>>> Something you don't like? >>>> >>> >>> It's a descriptive term whose meaning everyone knows, Roger. >> >> >> I disagree. It ceased to be a descriptive term a long, long time ago. >> What is became is a It's a great big rubber stamp one slaps down to dismiss, >> trivialize, and above all silence any discussion of a political or social >> issue (especially if it concerns women) one does not want to hear about. >> >> I too call bullshit. If you don't like CD Wrights work, fine, but please >> say something real. >> >> Suzanne Burns >> >> >> I can't remember exactly what I said, but it was more or less that >> mediocre poets whose political outlook mirrors the outlook of the liberal >> establishment--i.e., are politically correct (and I await a better term for >> what I meant)--are the ones who get grants, as CD Wright has. My >> implication was that the political stance, which should be irrelevant, >> counts. >> >> --Bob G. >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080713/c80a96e2/attachment.html From jforjames at aol.com Mon Jul 14 16:49:08 2008 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames@aol.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:23 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] CD Wright's body count In-Reply-To: <9ded96600807130638h3222bf62t77442a67a4efcb54@mail.gmail.com> References: <954726.86731.qm@web54110.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <9ded96600807130638h3222bf62t77442a67a4efcb54@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <8CAB40A31EF83B9-F2C-15A0@Webmail-mg08.sim.aol.com> There are many poets who have done good things with a 'political agenda'.?A couple of names that come to mind are Martin Espada and Anne Winters. We don't live in?a society?that's a breeding ground for dissident voices (not that there aren't problems aplenty to be addressed.)?As Muriel Rukeyser put it... In Our Time??? ? In our period, they say there is free speech. They say there is no penalty for poets, There is no penalty for writing poems. They say this.?? This is the penalty. --? Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: ts mclain Sent: Sun, 13 Jul 2008 9:38 am Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] CD Wright's body count For me, the "numbingly weak" is a constant for almost all public poetry. Maybe that is part of its charm as well as its downfall. I agree that when you hitch up to a cause, you can be granted more of that gravitas just because people are so impressed you said exactly what they wished they had said. Like bumper stickers, these poems do not age well and they eventually reduce the value of the vehicle attached to the bumper. Who are good issue poets? I am curious what others think on this. In my limited readings on social issue poems, I liked many parts of Ginsberg's "Wichita Diamond Sutra" and I just read it forty years after it was written. Crane's "War is Kind" also has some nice sections. But both would look different if they were edited today. How about Yeats' topical/political poetry? I was never moved by it but it was fun to pick apart in the classroom. Generally, if the language used doesn't move me or create some tension, then I don't see the poem getting off to very good start. I haven't read much of C.D.Wright, but I do find that she is always about language. I don't see her as being as polemical as the worst of the issues poets can be. Maybe it shows my ingnorance, but I think the whole issue about the penal system in Arkansas is largely unexplored, as recent PBS shows on the de facto slavery resulting from post Civil War Jim Crow laws suggests. Having heard her talk about this book last Spring, I got the distinct impression that she was after more than just finger-pointing or patronizing the victims. That doesn't make for a good book, necessarily. But I am curious. Although, the limited edition is a little pricey. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080714/7f9fd885/attachment.html From millb at aol.com Mon Jul 14 16:59:18 2008 From: millb at aol.com (millb@aol.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:23 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] CD Wright's body count In-Reply-To: <8CAB40A31EF83B9-F2C-15A0@Webmail-mg08.sim.aol.com> References: <954726.86731.qm@web54110.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <9ded96600807130638h3222bf62t77442a67a4efcb54@mail.gmail.com> <8CAB40A31EF83B9-F2C-15A0@Webmail-mg08.sim.aol.com> Message-ID: <8CAB40B9D4A093F-524-14AA@webmail-nf16.sim.aol.com> I don't think "good" or "great" poetry has anything to do with?the subject matter, the genre, the form, or even the point of view. Any subject can be trivialized as well as immortalized. The trick is in the execution. Take Ulysses, for example, heck it's just a story about a guy walking around Dublin.? -----Original Message----- From: jforjames@aol.com To: new-poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Mon, 14 Jul 2008 1:49 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] CD Wright's body count There are many poets who have done good things with a 'political agenda'.?A couple of names that come to mind are Martin Espada and Anne Winters. We don't live in?a society?that's a breeding ground for dissident voices (not that there aren't problems aplenty to be addressed.)?As Muriel Rukeyser put it... In Our Time??? ? In our period, they say there is free speech. They say there is no penalty for poets, There is no penalty for writing poems. They say this.?? This is the penalty. --? Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: ts mclain Sent: Sun, 13 Jul 2008 9:38 am Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] CD Wright's body count For me, the "numbingly weak" is a constant for almost all public poetry. Maybe that is part of its charm as well as its downfall. I agree that when you hitch up to a cause, you can be granted more of that gravitas just because people are so impressed you said exactly what they wished they had said. Like bumper stickers, these poems do not age well and they eventually reduce the value of the vehicle attached to the bumper. Who are good issue poets? I am curious what others think on this. In my limited readings on social issue poems, I liked many parts of Ginsberg's "Wichita Diamond Sutra" and I just read it forty years after it was written. Crane's "War is Kind" also has some nice sections. But both would look different if they were edited today. How about Yeats' topical/political poetry? I was never moved by it but it was fun to pick apart in the classroom. Generally, if the language used doesn't move me or create some tension, then I don't see the poem getting off to very good start. I haven't read much of C.D.Wright, but I do find that she is always about language. I don't see her as being as polemical as the worst of the issues poets can be. Maybe it shows my ingnorance, but I think the whole issue about the penal system in Arkansas is largely unexplored, as recent PBS shows on the de facto slavery resulting from post Civil War Jim Crow laws suggests. Having heard her talk about this book last Spring, I got the distinct impression that she was after more than just finger-pointing or patronizing the victims. That doesn't make for a good book, necessarily. But I am curious. Although, the limited edition is a little pricey. ? The Famous, the Infamous, the Lame - in your browser. Get the TMZ Toolbar Now! _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080714/d4c4e637/attachment.html From jforjames at aol.com Mon Jul 14 17:40:42 2008 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames@aol.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:23 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] all poetics are local poetics Message-ID: <8CAB4116697FD35-978-2B1F@webmail-mf04.sysops.aol.com> http://www.boston.com/news/local/articles/2008/07/14/arts_community_feels_snub_as_council_picks_gloucesters_new_poet_laureate/ By James Sullivan Globe Correspondent / July 14, 2008 "The noise of debate makes music," Gloucester poet John Ronan once wrote in a tribute to his flinty hometown. But the noise of late has hardly been music to his ears. Ronan's recent appointment as Gloucester's second poet laureate, following the death last December of laureate-for-life Vincent Ferrini, has triggered a loud debate over the value of the arts in this blue-collar port city. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080714/8ce1c9cd/attachment.html From jforjames at aol.com Tue Jul 15 09:38:09 2008 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames@aol.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:23 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] WorldPo: obscure Scotch poet Message-ID: <8CAB49727BA56E8-970-101C@WEBMAIL-MC06.sysops.aol.com> http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/scotland/glasgow_and_west/7507011.stm Readers of the BBC Scotland news website have helped solve the mystery of a 19th Century poet. The specialist Scottish International Relief (SIR) bookshop in Ayr appealed for help after being given a volume of work by George Colburn. Since the article was published on Friday, shop manager Chris Moorhouse has been inundated with offers of help. The information supplied has enabled him to piece together the Scottish poet's life story. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080715/94d88e6b/attachment.html From skip at louisiana.edu Tue Jul 15 11:34:44 2008 From: skip at louisiana.edu (Skip Fox) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:24 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] WorldPo: obscure Scotch poet In-Reply-To: <8CAB49727BA56E8-970-101C@WEBMAIL-MC06.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <9219C30E2E6A4CF482003C593B0A3447@win.louisiana.edu> Good story. I wonder about the poetry which the article implied was at least better than his business endeavors. We don't even get a line. I find that very odd. -----Original Message----- From: new-poetry-bounces@wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto:new-poetry-bounces@wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of jforjames@aol.com Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2008 8:38 AM To: new-poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu Subject: [New-Poetry] WorldPo: obscure Scotch poet http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/scotland/glasgow_and_west/7507011.stm Readers of the BBC Scotland news website have helped solve the mystery of a 19th Century poet. The specialist Scottish International Relief (SIR) bookshop in Ayr appealed for help after being given a volume of work by George Colburn. Since the article was published on Friday, shop manager Chris Moorhouse has been inundated with offers of help. The information supplied has enabled him to piece together the Scottish poet's life story. _____ The Famous, the Infamous, the Lame - in your browser. Get the TMZ Toolbar Now! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080715/71e4293f/attachment.html From jforjames at aol.com Tue Jul 15 13:15:47 2008 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames@aol.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:24 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Berger on engaged poetry Message-ID: <8CAB4B58EA572A1-970-26CE@WEBMAIL-MC06.sysops.aol.com> This weekend I was browsing thru John Berger's (known as an art critic) Selected Essays, and I ran across a good piece called "The Hour of Poetry," apropos to our discussion of political/issue-oriented poetry. Here?are few?passages: The suffering of the present and the past is unlikely to be redeemed by a future era of universal happiness. And evil is a constantly ineradicable reality. All this means that the resolution?the coming to terms with the sense to be given to life?cannot be deferred. The future cannot be trusted. The moment of truth is now. And more and more it will be poetry, rather than prose, that receives this truth. Prose is more trusting than poetry: poetry speaks to the immediate wound. -- ? One can say anything to language. This is why it is a listener, closer to us than any silence or any god. Yet its very openness often signifies indifference. (The indifference of language is continually solicited and employed in bulletins, legal records, communiqu?s, files.) Poetry addresses language in such a way as to close this indifference and to incite a caring. How does poetry incite caring? What is the labour of poetry? ? By this I do not mean the work involved in writing a poem, but the work of the written poem itself. Every authentic poem contributes to the labour of poetry. And the task of this unceasing labour is to bring together what life has separated or violence has torn away. Physical pain can usually be lessened or stopped by action. All=2 0other human pain, however, is caused by one form or another of separation. And here the act of assuagement is less direct. Poetry can repair no loss, but it defies the space which separates. And it does this by it continual labour of reassembling what has been scattered. ? -- ?To break the silence of events, to speak of experience however bitter or lacerating, to put into words, is to discover the hope that these words may be heard, and that when heard, the events will be judged. This hope is, of course, at the origin of prayer, and prayer?as well as labour?was probably at the origin of speech itself. Of all uses of language, it is poetry that preserves most purely the memory of this origin. [?] Nevertheless poems are not simple prayers. Even a religious poem is not exclusively and uniquely addressed to God. Poetry is addressed to language itself. If that sounds obscure, think of lamentation---there words lament loss to their language. Poetry is addressed to language in a comparable but wider way. ?To put into words is to find the hope that the words will be heard and the events they describe judged. Judged by God or judged by history. Either way the judgement is distant. Yet the language?which is immediate, and which is sometimes wrongly thought of as being only a means?offers, obstinately and mysteriously, its own judgement when it is addressed by poetry. This judgement is distinct from that of any moral code, yet it promises, within its acknowl edgment of what it has heard, a distinction between good and evil?as though language itself had been created to preserve just that distinction! ?John Berger, ?The Hour of Poetry,? Selected Essays (Vintage, 2001) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080715/165866a4/attachment.html From amyhappens at yahoo.com Tue Jul 15 16:14:08 2008 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:24 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] History Keeps Me Awake at Night: A Genealogy of Wojnarowicz -- Tomorrow Night Message-ID: <660513.15051.qm@web83314.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> History Keeps Me Awake at Night: A Genealogy of Wojnarowicz July 10 - August 22, 2008 P * P * O * W Pilkington - Olsoff Fine Arts, Inc. 555 W. 25th Street - New York, NY 10001 Artists Participating: Sadie Benning Michael Bilsborough Shannon Ebner Mike Estabrook Brendan Fowler William E. Jones Lovett/Codagnone Keith Mayerson Ryan McGinley Frederic Moffet Henrik Olesen Adam Putnam David Ratcliff Emily Roysdon Zoe Strauss Wolfgang Tillmans Carrie Mae Weems Matt Wolf David Wojnarowicz Reading and film screening -- Thursday, July 17th, 6 - 9 p.m. Zachary German Amy King Sara Marcus Max Steele Organized by Photi Giovanis http://ppowgallery.com/exhibitions/future/future.html _______ Recent http://www.tarpaulinsky.com/Reviews/kiss-me.html http://jacketmagazine.com/34/dickow-king.shtml Alias http://www.amyking.org Your Suggestions http://amyking.wordpress.com/2008/06/12/poetry-exercises-wanted/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080715/9682e8c5/attachment.html From jorgensen_a at yahoo.com Wed Jul 16 05:28:26 2008 From: jorgensen_a at yahoo.com (Jorgensen, Alexander) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:24 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetry Reading @ Kaurab 20 July, Kolkata, India - Alexander Jorgensen In-Reply-To: <200807081600.m68G04kH022945@wiz.cath.vt.edu> Message-ID: <796267.71073.qm@web50507.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Alexander Jorgensen will be reading at K A U R A B 20 July 2008 Sunday 4:30 PM P-494/A Keyatala Road, Kolkata 700029, India -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080716/7dc0455e/attachment.html From jforjames at aol.com Wed Jul 16 12:27:29 2008 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames@aol.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:24 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: Walk to Work with Frank O'Hara In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8CAB577F9EB2821-B6C-10A0@FWM-D39.sysops.aol.com> -----Original Message----- From: Knopf Poetry To: JforJames@aol.com Sent: Wed, 16 Jul 2008 11:26 am Subject: Walk to Work with Frank O'Hara If you cannot view images in your e-mail, please visit http://www.randomhouse.com/knopf/enewsletter/poetry08/bonus_ohara.html ? We know it's no longer officially National Poetry Month?and we don't often bend the rules?but with the dog days of summer fully upon us, we felt a bit of poetry might provide a nice pick-me-up. Today, we offer "Walking to Work," a poem from our recently published Selected Poems by Frank O'Hara, edited by Mark Ford. Consider walking to (or from) work today! And, if you happen to be in midtown Manhattan, please join us at The Museum of Modern Art at noon for a wonderful lunchtime celebration of Frank O'Hara's work. See details below. Walking to Work It's going to be the sunny side from now ???????????????on. Get out, all of you. This is my traffic over the night and how ?????????????should I range my pride each oceanic morning like a cutter if I ?????confuse the dark world is round round who ??????????in my eyes at morning saves nothing from nobody? I'm becoming the street. ?????????? ?????Who are you in love with? me? ??????Straight against the light I cross. ??????????????????????????????????????????1952 Frank O'Hara: Selected Poems at Lunchtime Wednesday, July 16, 12:00-1:00 p.m. The Abby Aldrich Rockefeller Sculpture Garden 11 West 53 Street Alfred A. Knopf, The Museum of Modern Art, and the Poetry Society of America present a reading from the recently published Selected Poems by Frank O'Hara, edited by Mark Ford (which includes poetry, a play, and essays). Held at lunchtime, the program commemorates O'Hara's tradition of writing poetry during his lunch hour while working at MoMA. Participants include poets Dan Chiasson, Hettie, Jones, Vincent Katz, Philip Schultz, and others. Selected Poems, as well as O'Hara's In Memory of My Feelings, will be available for sale following the reading. Please note: In case of rain, the program will be held in the Titus Theater 2, also accessible through the 11 West 53 Street entrance. This program is free with Museum admission. Seating is available on a first-come first-served basis. KEEP CLICKING: Purchase a signed edition of CHINESE APPLES (please note delivery will take 2-3 weeks) -- About SELECTED POEMS About Frank O'Hara Download a free broadside of "The Hotel Room Mirror" Meet W. S. DiPiero -- ? ? A collection of Frank O'Hara's manuscripts and letters is a part of the Berg Collection of The New York Public Library. To learn more about this important cultural institution, sign up for their free e-newsletter, The New York Public Library News: http://ga6.org/enypl/join.tcl?qp_source=knopf Excerpt from FRANK O'HARA: SELECTED POEMS . Copyright ? 2008 by Maureen Granville-Smith. Excerpted by permission of Alfred A. Knopf, a division of Random House, Inc. All rights reserved. No part of this excerpt may be reproduced or reprinted without permission in writing from the publisher. We welcome your feedback. Please send any thoughts or questions to knopfwebmaster@randomhouse.com You received this issue because your email address is in Knopf's Poem-a-Day mailing list. To unsubscribe, send a blank email to unsub_knopfpoetry@info.randomhouse.com. Or if you received this poem as a forward and wish to subscribe, send a blank email to sub_knopfpoetry@info.randomhouse.com. ? We know it's no longer officially National Poetry Month?and we don't often bend the rules?but with the dog days of summer fully upon us, we felt a bit of poetry might provide a nice pick-me-up. Today, we offer "Walking to Work," a poem from our recently published Selected Poems by Frank O'Hara, edited by Mark Ford. Consider walking to (or from) work today! And, if you happen to be in midtown=2 0Manhattan, please join us at The Museum of Modern Art at noon for a wonderful lunchtime celebration of Frank O'Hara's work. See details below. Walking to Work It's going to be the sunny side from now ???????????????on. Get out, all of you. This is my traffic over the night and how ?????????????should I range my pride each oceanic morning like a cutter if I ?????confuse the dark world is round round who ??????????in my eyes at morning saves nothing from nobody? I'm becoming the street. ????????????????Who are you in love with? me? ??????Straight against the light I cross. ??????????????????????????????????????????1952 Frank O'Hara: Selected Poems at Lunchtime Wednesday, July 16, 12:00-1:00 p.m. The Abby Aldrich Rockefeller Sculpture Garden 11 West 53 Street Alfred A. Knopf, The Museum of Modern Art, and the Poetry Society of America present a reading from the recently published Selected Poems by Frank O'Hara, edited by Mark Ford (which includes poetry, a play, and essays). Held at lunchtime, the program commemorates O'Hara's=2 0tradition of writing poetry during his lunch hour while working at MoMA. Participants include poets Dan Chiasson, Hettie, Jones, Vincent Katz, Philip Schultz, and others. Selected Poems, as well as O'Hara's In Memory of My Feelings, will be available for sale following the reading. Please note: In case of rain, the program will be held in the Titus Theater 2, also accessible through the 11 West 53 Street entrance. This program is free with Museum admission. Seating is available on a first-come first-served basis. KEEP CLICKING: Purchase a signed edition of CHINESE APPLES (please note delivery will take 2-3 weeks) -- About SELECTED POEMS About Frank O'Hara Download a free broadside of "The Hotel Room Mirror" Meet W. S. DiPiero -- ? ? A collection of Frank O'Hara's manuscripts and letters is a part of the Berg Collection of The New York Public Library. To learn more about this important cultural institution, sign up for their free e-newsletter, The New York Public Library News: http://ga6.org/enypl/join.tcl?qp_source=knopf Excerpt from FRANK O'HARA: SELECTED POEMS . Copyright ? 2008 by Maureen Granville-Smith. Excerpted by permission of Alfred A. Knopf, a division of Random House, Inc. All rights reserved. No part of this excerpt may be reproduced or reprinted without permission in writing from the publisher. We welcome your feedback. Please send any thoughts or questions to knopfwebmaster@randomhouse.com You received20this issue because your email address is in Knopf's Poem-a-Day mailing list. To unsubscribe, send a blank email to unsub_knopfpoetry@info.randomhouse.com. Or if you received this poem as a forward and wish to subscribe, send a blank email to sub_knopfpoetry@info.randomhouse.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080716/99d9a1fe/attachment.html From jforjames at aol.com Wed Jul 16 12:33:52 2008 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames@aol.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:24 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: unpublished Beckett, Frost, Paz in Fulcrum 6 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8CAB578DDFA3573-B6C-1123@FWM-D39.sysops.aol.com> -----Original Message----- From: Fulcrum Annual Sent: Wed, 16 Jul 2008 9:37 am Subject: unpublished Beckett, Frost, Paz in Fulcrum 6 FULCRUM #6 (730 pages) features unpublished Beckett, Frost, Paz; spotlights Poetry and Myth," debate between Kisnella and Warren, translations of Seferis, ian, Quevedo and much else Issue # 6 of the acclaimed literary annual, FULCRUM, features previously npublished and uncollected writing by Samuel Beckett, Robert Frost and Octavio az; original scholarship on "Samuel Beckett as Poet" by Christopher Ricks, liot Weinberger, Marjorie Perloff and others; a special section on "Poetry and yth"; a debate between poets John Kinsella and Rosanna Warren; translations of oetry by George Seferis, Boris Vian and Francisco de Quevedo; a great deal of utstanding current poetry and literary criticism; and visual art. The "Samuel Beckett as Poet" feature, edited by Philip Nikolayev, presents eckett?s neglected masterpiece "Ceiling" and other uncollected and unpublished oems, essays by Christopher Ricks, Jean-Michel Rabat?, Marjorie Perloff, Eliot einberger, Simon Critchley, Anne Atik, S.E. Gontarski and others, life drawings f Beckett by Avigdor Arikha, and a previously unpublished conversation between ctavio Paz and Eliot Weinberger on Beckett. A number of the essays quote eckett?s unpublished correspondence and manuscripts. FULCRUM # 6 also presents previously unpublished lectures by Robert Frost from "The Claims of Poetry," "The Most Dangerous Phrase in America," an d "The atural and Supernatural Bounds of Science"), transcribed with annotation and ommentary by Frost scholar James Sitar. Poets published in FULCRUM #6 include Landis Everson, Alexei Tsvetkov, George eferis?s long poem Thrush (translated by George Kalogeris), Boris Vian translated by Raymond Federman), Francisco de Quevedo (translated with an ntroduction by Christopher Johnson), John Kinsella, Rosanna Warren, W. N. erbert, Jeet Thayil, Geraldine Monk, Alan Halsey, Peter Riley, and a great any others. The special "Poetry and Myth" section, edited by Cliff Forshaw and David ennedy, presents a variety of essays and poems on the subject. "FULCRUM has in only a few years established itself as a must-read journal, a nique annual of literary and intellectual substance positioned on the cutting dge of culture."--Billy Collins "FULCRUM serves as a primary resource for anyone interested in diverse poetic ractices not only from these States, but also from around our trembling lobe."--Michael Palmer FULCRUM #6 is 730 pages long and offered at an artificially low price. lease visit http://fulcrumpoetry.com for more information or to acquire a copy. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080716/a022923f/attachment.html From jforjames at aol.com Wed Jul 16 12:51:33 2008 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames@aol.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:24 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Daisy Fried's letter re Logan's O'Hara review in NYTBR Message-ID: <8CAB57B562A7FC5-B6C-12B9@FWM-D39.sysops.aol.com> http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/13/books/review/Letters-t-2.html?ref=review But Logan?s condescension toward O?Hara?s ?genial fanatics? (those of us who think O?Hara is certainly one of a small handful of great 20th-century American poets) suggests that he doesn?t really understand the kind of poetry that rejects the idea of modernist-style capital-G Greatness. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080716/9a7dbcd5/attachment.html From chris.lott at gmail.com Wed Jul 16 17:06:02 2008 From: chris.lott at gmail.com (Chris Lott) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:24 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Daisy Fried's letter re Logan's O'Hara review in NYTBR In-Reply-To: <8CAB57B562A7FC5-B6C-12B9@FWM-D39.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CAB57B562A7FC5-B6C-12B9@FWM-D39.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <9b1b9dab0807161406h32af0b28k39a9eec28271885b@mail.gmail.com> On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 08:51, wrote: > http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/13/books/review/Letters-t-2.html?ref=review > > But Logan's condescension toward O'Hara's "genial fanatics" (those of us who > think O'Hara is certainly one of a small handful of great 20th-century > American poets) suggests that he doesn't really understand the kind of > poetry that rejects the idea of modernist-style capital-G Greatness. But wait-- isn't that snippet a perfect example of the genial fanaticism that Logan-- ah, forget it... c From jforjames at aol.com Wed Jul 16 17:19:47 2008 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames@aol.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:24 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Edward Thomas Message-ID: <8CAB5A0CF70C387-13F4-B7A@WEBMAIL-MA13.sysops.aol.com> http://books.guardian.co.uk/review/story/0,,2287914,00.html Roads from France He was a muse to other poets, an important part of the emerging modern movement and a pioneering ecological poet, so why is Edward Thomas still so undervalued, asks Edna Longley Saturday June 28, 2008 The Guardian -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080716/787caf88/attachment.html From jforjames at aol.com Wed Jul 16 20:41:29 2008 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames@aol.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:24 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Kay Ryan new Poet Laureate Message-ID: <8CAB5BCFC4D7394-3A0-32F9@Webmail-mg05.sim.aol.com> http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/17/books/17poet.html?ref=arts Kay Ryan, Outsider With Sly Style, Named Poet Laureate ? By PATRICIA COHEN Published: July 17, 2008 When Kay Ryan was a student at the University of California, Los Angeles, the poetry club rejected her application; she was perhaps too much of a loner, she recalls. Now Ms. Ryan is being inducted into one of the most elite poetry clubs around. She is to be named the country?s poet laureate on Thursday. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080716/579b7647/attachment.html From jforjames at aol.com Wed Jul 16 20:47:05 2008 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames@aol.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:24 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Phone Call to the Future Message-ID: <8CAB5BDC512FD3F-3A0-3374@Webmail-mg05.sim.aol.com> http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200807u/mary-jo-salter Interviews July 16, 2008 Mary Jo Salter talks about her new collection, Phone Call to the Future; editing The Norton Anthology of Poetry; and her early days as an assistant poetry editor at The Atlantic. by Sarah Cohen The Poet's Poet ? A Phone Call to the Future: New and Selected Poems by Mary Jo Salter Knopf 240 pages ? Most poets hope that their message might be conveyed to future generations?though perhaps not necessarily via the telephone. Mary Jo Salter?s A Phone Call to the Future, a new collection of recent and selected poems, gently ribs this poetic ambition even as it, in a sense, embodies it. Salter?s title poem, riffing on the -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080716/f7f7e32d/attachment.html From jforjames at aol.com Wed Jul 16 21:11:10 2008 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames@aol.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:24 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Daisy Fried's letter re Logan's O'Hara review in NYTBR In-Reply-To: <9b1b9dab0807161406h32af0b28k39a9eec28271885b@mail.gmail.com> References: <8CAB57B562A7FC5-B6C-12B9@FWM-D39.sysops.aol.com> <9b1b9dab0807161406h32af0b28k39a9eec28271885b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <8CAB5C122101902-3A0-3540@Webmail-mg05.sim.aol.com> It seems like Fried's main argument is that they picked an aesthetically unsympathetic reviewer. Who are the poets Logan adores through & through? As someone, I think Sam?mentioned, we don't know exactly what O'Hara would have chosen to collect for a Selected or Collected. He's a famous and influential dead poet now....so every scrap and scrawl will in time see be published. It will eventually become a translation project as three-sheets-to-the-wind napkin poems from Cedar Bar are uncovered. But?what I want to say about O'Hara is that?perhaps the weak/lesser poems are not weak but?necessary. This is probably the case in most oeuvres. You can't do it at the same level poem after poem. And the poet probably can't even see the difference poem to poem as he/she's?pushing them out into the world. Someone with O'Hara's taste and intelligence?could tell good from bad, but?poets are generally in love?with the poem they are writing: It may be a fling, it may be a protracted and rocky affair, it may be a committed relationship that lapses into a shared?silence after so many years, but each poem is a love affair. I think O'Hara would agree. Finnegan?? ? -----Original Message----- From: Chris Lott Sent: Wed, 16 Jul 2008 5:06 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Daisy Fried's letter re Logan's O'Hara review in NYTBR On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 08:51, wrote: > http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/13/books/review/Letters-t-2.html?ref=review > > But Logan's condescension toward O'Hara's "genial fanatics" (those of us who > think O'Hara is certainly one of a small handful of great 20th-century > American poets) suggests that he doesn't really understand the kind of > poetry that rejects the idea of modernist-style capital-G Greatness. But wait-- isn't that snippet a perfect example of the genial fanaticism that Logan-- ah, forget it... c _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080716/10a985d6/attachment.html From AlMaginnes at aol.com Wed Jul 16 21:38:53 2008 From: AlMaginnes at aol.com (AlMaginnes@aol.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:25 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Kay Ryan new Poet Laureate Message-ID: Didn't see that one coming. Good on her. I love that she's been teaching remedial English for 30 years. **************Get the scoop on last night's hottest shows and the live music scene in your area - Check out TourTracker.com! (http://www.tourtracker.com?NCID=aolmus00050000000112) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080716/a2001619/attachment.html From Opus40-01 at opus40.org Wed Jul 16 21:52:41 2008 From: Opus40-01 at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:25 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Kay Ryan new Poet Laureate In-Reply-To: <8CAB5BCFC4D7394-3A0-32F9@Webmail-mg05.sim.aol.com> References: <8CAB5BCFC4D7394-3A0-32F9@Webmail-mg05.sim.aol.com> Message-ID: <487EA5E9.6020709@opus40.org> I think this is a wonderful choice. jforjames@aol.com wrote: > http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/17/books/17poet.html?ref=arts > Kay Ryan, Outsider With Sly Style, Named Poet Laureate > > By PATRICIA COHEN > Published: July 17, 2008 > > When Kay Ryan was a student at the University of California, Los > Angeles, the poetry club rejected her application; she was perhaps too > much of a loner, she recalls. Now Ms. Ryan is being inducted into one > of the most elite poetry clubs around. She is to be named the > country?s poet laureate on Thursday. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > The Famous, the Infamous, the Lame - in your browser. Get the TMZ > Toolbar Now > ! > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ The moral is this: in American verse, The better you are, the pay is worse. --Corey Ford From amyhappens at yahoo.com Wed Jul 16 22:27:34 2008 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:25 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Kay Ryan new Poet Laureate In-Reply-To: <487EA5E9.6020709@opus40.org> Message-ID: <214960.33631.qm@web83310.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> And long overdue, in terms of -- yep -- gender: The list, up to Donald Hall in 2006, appears here [followed by Kooser, Simic, and now Ryan]: U.S. Poet Laureate Timeline [1937 - 2006 = 36 Men and 8 Women] http://amyking.wordpress.com/2008/03/23/what%e2%80%99s-love-got-to-do-with-it/ ~~~ Kay Ryan Named Poet Laureate - NYT: http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/17/books/17poet.html _______ Recent http://www.tarpaulinsky.com/Reviews/kiss-me.html http://jacketmagazine.com/34/dickow-king.shtml Alias http://www.amyking.org Your Suggestions http://amyking.wordpress.com/2008/06/12/poetry-exercises-wanted/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080716/565858c6/attachment.html From Rsgwynn1 at cs.com Wed Jul 16 23:36:29 2008 From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com (Rsgwynn1@cs.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:25 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Kay Ryan new Poet Laureate Message-ID: Absolutely wonderful! Wow! I love it! Kay rocks! Yes! Etc. Etc. Etc. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080716/d5ab84d5/attachment.html From chris.lott at gmail.com Wed Jul 16 23:39:28 2008 From: chris.lott at gmail.com (Chris Lott) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:25 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Daisy Fried's letter re Logan's O'Hara review in NYTBR In-Reply-To: <8CAB5C122101902-3A0-3540@Webmail-mg05.sim.aol.com> References: <8CAB57B562A7FC5-B6C-12B9@FWM-D39.sysops.aol.com> <9b1b9dab0807161406h32af0b28k39a9eec28271885b@mail.gmail.com> <8CAB5C122101902-3A0-3540@Webmail-mg05.sim.aol.com> Message-ID: <9b1b9dab0807162039n45fa76c9rf3bb9f0529690a49@mail.gmail.com> One certainly can't blame O'Hara for his followers... and there's no blame necessary, really, since to his devotees every scrap he wrote *is* important. It just makes for a bewildering array for the rest of us. I'm happily fanatical (though not always as genial as I should be) for a few writers-- aren't we all?-- so I see the positive side of the behavior Logan is poking at. I've no idea what poet Logan would adore through and through. Maybe most people aren't blessed with that gift. Maybe he's intellectually dishonest. I've only read his reviews spottily in periodicals here and there, so no idea if he reveals any affection in his books or collected critical pieces. Regardless, there is an aspect of Logan's crticiismn that I often guiltily enjoy-- he has a certain flair for skewering and often makes me laugh out loud. Sometimes even when directed at poetry I like. If I've learned anything from places like this list, it is that all of our taste is ultimately suspect. c -- Chris Lott From chris.lott at gmail.com Thu Jul 17 02:51:04 2008 From: chris.lott at gmail.com (Chris Lott) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:25 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Daisy Fried's letter re Logan's O'Hara review in NYTBR In-Reply-To: <8CAB57B562A7FC5-B6C-12B9@FWM-D39.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CAB57B562A7FC5-B6C-12B9@FWM-D39.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <9b1b9dab0807162351i9c82e9dof6f8196efba62ca3@mail.gmail.com> On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 08:51, wrote: > http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/13/books/review/Letters-t-2.html?ref=review > > But Logan's condescension toward O'Hara's "genial fanatics" (those of us who > think O'Hara is certainly one of a small handful of great 20th-century > American poets) suggests that he doesn't really understand the kind of > poetry that rejects the idea of modernist-style capital-G Greatness. One other thing... am I the only person that gets woozy when people make the "there's no such thing as capital "G" great anymore" argument while effectively arguing that there *is* in all but the orthography? Fried's protest is a bit watered down by her parenthetical. My own position depends on the side of the bed I woke up on, the hour of the day, the phase of the moon and who knows what else. c From lsgrimes at stonegulch.com Thu Jul 17 07:06:40 2008 From: lsgrimes at stonegulch.com (Linda Sue Grimes) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:25 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Kay Ryan new Poet Laureate References: <214960.33631.qm@web83310.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <003e01c8e7fd$312ca250$0201a8c0@LindaSue> Right...There hasn't been a woman poet laureate since 2003. lsg ----- Original Message ----- From: amy king To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &,Views ; Women's Poetry Listserve ; UB Poetics discussion group Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2008 9:27 PM Subject: [New-Poetry] Kay Ryan new Poet Laureate And long overdue, in terms of -- yep -- gender: The list, up to Donald Hall in 2006, appears here [followed by Kooser, Simic, and now Ryan]: U.S. Poet Laureate Timeline [1937 - 2006 = 36 Men and 8 Women] http://amyking.wordpress.com/2008/03/23/what%e2%80%99s-love-got-to-do-with-it/ ~~~ Kay Ryan Named Poet Laureate - NYT: http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/17/books/17poet.html _______ Recent http://www.tarpaulinsky.com/Reviews/kiss-me.html http://jacketmagazine.com/34/dickow-king.shtml Alias http://www.amyking.org Your Suggestions http://amyking.wordpress.com/2008/06/12/poetry-exercises-wanted/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080717/20dbcddd/attachment.html From Opus40-01 at opus40.org Thu Jul 17 12:29:20 2008 From: Opus40-01 at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:25 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] While You're Up, Get Me a Grant Message-ID: <487F7360.40509@opus40.org> Who can help write a grant proposal and figure out who to apply to? I'm a babe in the woods in this field. I'd rather discuss the details backchannel. -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ The moral is this: in American verse, The better you are, the pay is worse. --Corey Ford From grahamd at ripon.edu Thu Jul 17 12:35:39 2008 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:25 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Kay Ryan Message-ID: <126AD803-73E0-4E05-A6C9-24CEAE79BFDA@ripon.edu> If the notion is to pick a laureate who will promote poetry with a big public splash, Ryan seems an odd choice. (As were Kunitz & Gluck, among others.) But if the idea is to highlight good poems, well, hallelujah. The Poetry Foundation has a very nice spread on Ryan, by the way: http://poetryfoundation.org/archive/poet.html?id=80608 My longstanding favorite Ryan poem: Blandeur If it please God, let less happen. Even out Earth's rondure, flatten Eiger, blanden the Grand Canyon. Make valleys slightly higher, widen fissures to arable land, remand your terrible glaciers and silence their calving, halving or doubling all geographical features toward the mean. Unlean against our hearts. Withdraw your grandeur From these parts. -- Kay Ryan. Say Uncle. Grove Press, 2000. ======================================== David Graham grahamd@ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.mac.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080717/4634c9c0/attachment.html From millb at aol.com Thu Jul 17 12:45:07 2008 From: millb at aol.com (millb@aol.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:25 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] While You're Up, Get Me a Grant In-Reply-To: <487F7360.40509@opus40.org> References: <487F7360.40509@opus40.org> Message-ID: <8CAB6439ACBCBC5-A08-5D3A@webmail-nh11.sysops.aol.com> Hi I'm by no means an expert, but, I'd be glad to help. I sent a backchannel message to you as well. Cheers, Mill -----Original Message----- From: TheOldMole Sent: Thu, 17 Jul 2008 9:29 am Subject: [New-Poetry] While You're Up, Get Me a Grant Who can help write a grant proposal and figure out who to apply to? I'm a babe in the woods in this field. I'd rather discuss the details backchannel.? ? -- Tad Richards? http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/? http://opusforty.blogspot.com/? ? The moral is this: in American verse,? The better you are, the pay is worse.? ?--Corey Ford? ? _______________________________________________? New-Poetry mailing list? New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu? http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080717/2188f985/attachment.html From halvard at earthlink.net Thu Jul 17 13:39:42 2008 From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:25 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Kay Ryan In-Reply-To: <126AD803-73E0-4E05-A6C9-24CEAE79BFDA@ripon.edu> References: <126AD803-73E0-4E05-A6C9-24CEAE79BFDA@ripon.edu> Message-ID: <53B5F63C-8411-46CC-A23A-0CFE0BEF238B@earthlink.net> Where's Allen Ginsberg now that we need him. Hal "I don't know what music is." --Ludvig van Beethoven Halvard Johnson ================ halvard@earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html On Jul 17, 2008, at 11:35 AM, David Graham wrote: > If the notion is to pick a laureate who will promote poetry with a > big public splash, Ryan seems an odd choice. (As were Kunitz & > Gluck, among others.) From Opus40-01 at opus40.org Thu Jul 17 13:43:46 2008 From: Opus40-01 at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:25 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Kay Ryan In-Reply-To: <53B5F63C-8411-46CC-A23A-0CFE0BEF238B@earthlink.net> References: <126AD803-73E0-4E05-A6C9-24CEAE79BFDA@ripon.edu> <53B5F63C-8411-46CC-A23A-0CFE0BEF238B@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <487F84D2.7050305@opus40.org> He would have made a great laureate. Halvard Johnson wrote: > Where's Allen Ginsberg now that we need him. > > Hal > > "I don't know what music is." > --Ludvig van Beethoven > > Halvard Johnson > ================ > halvard@earthlink.net > http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > http://www.hamiltonstone.org > http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html > > > On Jul 17, 2008, at 11:35 AM, David Graham wrote: > >> If the notion is to pick a laureate who will promote poetry with a >> big public splash, Ryan seems an odd choice. (As were Kunitz & >> Gluck, among others.) > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ The moral is this: in American verse, The better you are, the pay is worse. --Corey Ford From jforjames at aol.com Thu Jul 17 13:45:30 2008 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames@aol.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:25 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Asking for help from journal editors In-Reply-To: <691102.38287.qm@web45615.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <8CAB64C09A7596F-9C8-16CC@WEBMAIL-MC21.sysops.aol.com> Running thru old mail I came across David Baratier's query. Whoa...that's a load of publication credits. This incredible list is a proto conceptual poem in the making, methinks. Finnegan ACM, Abalone Moon Journal, Abbey, Abramelin, Abraxas, Adirondack Review, Affair of the Mind, Age of Koestler, Alaska Quarterly, Albatross, Aldebaran, Alembic, Alsop Review, Altadena Review, Amanita Brandy, American Letters & Commentary, Amherst Review, Anathema Review, Anemone, Angelflesh, Anomone Sidecar, Apocalypse, Apocryphaltext, Apostrophe, Apple Valley Review, Arachne, Archipelago, Architrave, Argestes, Arnazella, Art:Mag, Art & Understanding, Art/Life, Artful Dodge, Artisan, Artword Quarterly, Ascent, Ash Canyon Review, Asheville Review, Asylum Arts, Audience, Aura, Aurorean, Axe Factory, Back Porch, Bakunin, Baltimore Review, Barbaric Yawp, Bear Deluxe, Beatlick News, Becoming, Behind Bars, Bellevue Literary Review, Beloit Poetry Journal, Berkeley Poetry Review, Bitter Oleander, Black Bear Review, Black Buzzard Review, Black Fly Review, Black Warrior Review, Blank Gun Silencer, Blind Man?s Rainbow, Block?s Magazine, Blood and Fire, Bloomsbury Review, Blue Light Review, Blue Unicorn, Blue Violin, Bluefish, Blueline, Bluff City Review, Bogg, Booklovers, Borderlands, Born Magazine, Boston Literary Review, Boulevard, Bravado, Brazo?s Gumbo, Broadkill Review, Brooklyn Review, Burning Cloud, Butterfly Chronicles, California Quarterly, Cache Review, Caf? Review, Caf? Solo, Caffeine Destiny, Cairn, Calapooya, Caliban, Cameltalk, Canadian Dimension, Cannon?s Mouth, Cape Rock, Cap rice/Ancient Mariner, Catbird Seat, Catharis Quarterly, Cathartic, Caveat Lector, Ceilidh, Celebration, Cement Squeeze, Center, Cerberus, Ceremony, Cervena Barva, Chaffin Journal, Chantarelle?s Notebook, Charitan Review, Chase Park, Chattahoochee Review, Chelsea, Cider Press Review, Circle Magazine, Clackamas Review, Clutch, Coal City Review, Coffee & Chicory, College English, Colorado North, Colorado Review, Columbia Poetry Review, Common Ground, Common Knowledge, Conditional Response, Conduit, Confluence, Confrontation, Connecticut Poetry Review, Connecticut River Review, Contact II, Conte, Context South, Cotton Boll/Atlanta Review, Cottonwood Review, Crab Creek Review, Cream City Review, Creeping Bent, Cresset, Crystal Drum, Curbside Review, Curious Rooms, Current Accounts, Daybreak, Defined Providence, Denver Quarterly, Descant, Devil?s Millhopper, Diagram, Dickinson Review, Dixie Phoenix Review, DMQ, Dog River Review, Down in the Dirt, Dusty Dog, Eagle?s Flight, East West, Eclipse, Edgz, 88: A Journal, Ekphrasis, El Dorado Review, Elements, Eleventh Muse, Elixir, English Journal, Epoch, Erased, Sigh, Sigh, Eratica, Etcetera, Ever Dancing Muse, Evergreen Review, Exit 13 Magazine, Expose?d , Expressive Spirals, Exquisite Corpse, Externalist, Eyerhyme, Fairfield Review, Farmer?s Market, Faultline, Fine Madness, First Intensity, Fish Drum, 5 Trope, 580 Split, Flying Horse, Folio, Footprints, Footwork Magazine, Forum, 4 am Poetry Review, Free Lunch, Frigg Magazine, Frisson, Full Circle Journal, Fullosia, G W Review, Galley Sail Review, Gargoyle, Garnet, Gayme, Goerge & M ertie?s Place, Geronimo Review, Ghoti Magazine, Glass Cherry, Gnome, Good Foot, Gopherwood Review, Grab-A-Nickel, Grasslands Review, Grasslimb, Great Midwestern Quarterly, Greatcoat, Green Hills Literary Lantern, Green Mountains Review, Green?s Magazine, Greetings, Gryphon, Habersham Review, Half Tones To Jubilee, Hamilton Stone, Hammers, Hampden-Sydney Review, Hanging Loose, Hapa Nui, Harvard Magazine, Hawaii Review, Hayden?s Ferry, Haz Mat, Heeltap, Heliotrope, Hellp, Hey, Listen, Hidden Oak, Higgensville Reader, High Plains Literary Review, Hiss Quarterly, Hoboeye, Hodge Podge, Hogtown Creek Review, Hollins Critic, Home Planet News, Homesstead Review, Hot Flashes, Hubbub, Hunger Magazine, Hyper Text, Ibis, Icon, Iconoclast, Idiom 23, Illya?s Honey, Images, Imploding Tie-Dyed Toupe, Indefinite Space, Ink Pot, Intent, Interim, International Poetry Review, Into The Teeth Of The Wind, Iodine Poetry Journal, Ironwood, Jaw Magazine, Jeopardy, Jones Avenue, Journal of New Jersey Poets, Just West of Athens, Kaleidoscope, Kerf, Kimera, Kinesis, King Log, King?s English, Kingfisher, Konfluence, L?intrigue, Laddie, Lake Effect, Language & Culture, Last Tangos, Late Knocking, Laughing Dog, Ledge, Liberty Hill, Limestone, Linden Lane Magazine, LiNQ, Listening Eye, Lit Rag, Literary Review, Little Magazine, Live and Let Live, Live Poets Society, Long Island Quarterly, Loose Watch, Lost & Found Times, Louisville Review, Loyalhanna Review, Lucid Moon, Lucid Stone, Lucky Star, Lullwater Review, Lunatic Chameleon, Lynx Eye, m.a.g., MacGuffin, Madison Review, Malstrom,=2 0Main Street Rag, Maine Event, Mandrake, Mangrove Magazine, Mankato Poetry Review, Mannequin Envy, Manoa, Margie, Marlboro Review, Massachusetts Review, Masthead, Maverick Magazine, Meanjin, Meat Whistle Quarterly, Medicinal Purposes, Medusa?s Hairdo, Meeting of the Minds, Memo, Mesechabe, Metropolitan, Mi Poesia, Mid-American Review, Midland Review, Mildred, Milk, Miller?s Pond, Mind Purge, Minimus, Missing Spoke, Mississippi Mud, Mixed Bag, MM Review, Mobius, Mocking Bird, Modern Review, Montserrat Review, Moondance, Mr.Cognito, MSS, Mudfish, Mudlark, Mundus Artium, Mushroom Dreams, Muuna Takeena, Nancy?s Magazine, Nassau Review, Nebraska Review, Nerve Bundle Review, New Collage Magazine, New Delta Review, New Hampshire Review, New Hope Review, New Laurel Review, New Letters, New Madrid, New Mexico Humanities, New Millennium, New Mirage Quarterly, New Rag Rising, New Verse News, New Yinzer, New York Quarterly, New Yorker, Newport Review, Newsletter Inago, Nexus, Nidus, Nimrod, Ninth Decade, No Exit, No Tell Motel, Northeast, Northeast Corridor, Northeast Journal, Northwest Florida Review, Northwest Review, Not Dead But Dreaming, Now Here Nowhere, O.ARS, Oasis, Object Lesson, Obsessed With Pipework, Odin?s Eye, Ohio Review, Old Crow, Old Red Kimono, On The Bus, One Less Magazine, One Trick Pony, Open Unison, Orange Willow Review, Orbis, Oregon Review, Osiris, Otisian Direcrtory, Over The Transom, Overview Ltd., Owen Wister Review, Oxford Magazine, Oyez, Pacific Coast Journal, Painted Bride Quarterly, Painted Hills Review, Panhandler, Pannus Index, Panoply,=2 0Paper Salad, Papyrus, Paradox, Parnassus Literary Review, Parting Gifts, Partisan Review, Pebble Lake, Pedestal Magazine, Pembroke Magazine, Pequod, Perimeter, Phantasmagoria, Phase & Cycle, Philadelphia Poets, Phoebe, Pikeville Review, Pink Cadillac, Pitchfork, Pittsburg, Quarterly, Plain Brown Wrapper, Plainsongs, Plastic Tower, Plum Review, Poem, Poesia, Posey Magazine, Poet & Critic, Poet House, Poet Lore, Poet News/Tule, Poet?s Art, Poet?s Cut , Poet?s Edge Magazine, Poet?s Guild, Poet?s Page, Poetalk, Poetic Hours, Poetic Space, Poetic Voices, Poetpourri, Poetree Magazine, Poetry Bone, Poetry Conspiracy, Poetry Depth Quarterly, Poetry In Motion, Poetry Kanto, Poetry Midwest, Poetry Now, Poetry Superhighway, Poets On, Porcupine Magazine, Portals, Postcard, Potato Eyes, Potomac Review, Potpourri, Prairie Dog, Prairie Schooner, Prairie Winds, Premiere Generation, Preying Mantis, Prism International, Private, Provincetown Arts, Psychopoetica, Pudding Magazine, Puerto del Sol, The Quarterly, Queen?s Quarterly, Racs, Radiant Turnstile, Rag Mag, Rain Dog Review, Raintown Review, Rambunctious Review, Red Booth Review, Red Cedar Review, Red China Magazine, Red Rock Review, Redoubt, Remark, Rhapsoidia, Rhino, Rio: A Journal, Rio Grande Review, River King, Riverrun, Riversedge, Riverwind, Rohwedder, Rowboat, Runes, S.L.U.G. Fest, Sacramento Poetry Review, Sage of Consciousness, Salmon Magazine, Salt, San Gabriel Quarterly, Sandscript, Santa Barbara Review, Schuylkill Valley Journal, Scribia , Scrivener, Sea Change, Sepia 60, Sequoia, Shades of December, Shampoo Poetr y, Shattered Wig, Short Fuse, Side Show Magazine, Sidereality, Sierra Nevada Review, Signal, Silent But Deadly, Silt Reader, Silver Web, Silverfish Review, 69 Flavors of Paranoia, Skidrow Penthouse, Skylark, Skyline, Skywriters, Slope, Small Pond Magazine, Small Town Rain, Smartish Pace, Snail?s Pace Review, Softblow, Solo, Somona Mandala, Sonora Review, Sou?wester, Soul Fountain, Sounds of Poetry, South Dakota Review, South Florida Poetry Review, Southern Bumblebee, Southern Humanities Review, Southern Poetry Review, Southwestern Review, Spindrift Journal, Spindrifter, Spout, St. Andrews Review, Stickman, Strange Fruit, Stray Dog, Sub-Terrain Review, Sulpher River Review, Talisman, 10th Muse, Third Coast, 13th Warrior Review, Thorny Locust, 3 am Poetry Review, Tipton, Torre de Papel, Unlikely Stories, Unwound, Vincent Brothers Review, Virginia Literary Review, Vol. No. Magazine, Washington Review, Weber Studies, West Hills Review, Westwind, Whiskey Island Magazine, White Crow, White Heron, Whole Notes, William & Mary Review, Wisconsin Review, Writers Forum, Writers? Journal, Xanadu, Xavier Review, Yefief, and Zillah. -----Original Message----- From: David Baratier To: new-poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Thu, 3 Jul 2008 9:47 pm Subject: [New-Poetry] Asking for help from journal editors -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080717/652dee00/attachment.html From brainboltpoet at gmail.com Thu Jul 17 13:53:39 2008 From: brainboltpoet at gmail.com (Beverly Rainbolt) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:25 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Kay Ryan In-Reply-To: <487F84D2.7050305@opus40.org> References: <126AD803-73E0-4E05-A6C9-24CEAE79BFDA@ripon.edu> <53B5F63C-8411-46CC-A23A-0CFE0BEF238B@earthlink.net> <487F84D2.7050305@opus40.org> Message-ID: <5513eaa0807171053r1420f6efrf094e6f190ecf24f@mail.gmail.com> On Thu, Jul 17, 2008 at 12:43 PM, TheOldMole wrote: > He would have made a great laureate. > > > Halvard Johnson wrote: > >> Where's Allen Ginsberg now that we need him. >> >> Hal >> >> When did we *not* need him? Bolt -- Inspiration exists, but it has to find us working. Pablo Picasso -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080717/48ffee10/attachment.html From bontasaurus at yahoo.com Thu Jul 17 14:37:08 2008 From: bontasaurus at yahoo.com (Dave Bonta) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:26 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: favorite Kay Ryan poems In-Reply-To: <200807171600.m6HG06kH016424@wiz.cath.vt.edu> Message-ID: <568472.31037.qm@web30206.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Here's one of my favorite Ryan poems: OSPREY The great taloned osprey nests in Scotland. Her nest's the biggest thing around, a spiked basket with hungry ugly osprey offspring in it. For months she sits on it. He fishes, riding two-pound salmon home like rockets. They get all the way there before they die, so muscular and brilliant swimming through the sky. I still can't bring myself to refer to the Poetry Consultant to the Librarian of Congress as Poet Laureate - what an absurd conceit! But if it brings public attention to great poetry, what the hell. And some of the Poetry Consultants have come up with fairly nifty poetry-promotion schemes, I guess. I'd like to see someone use the position to bring attention and funding to the effort to save endangered languages (and hence oral poetry traditions) in the the U.S. Dave Bonta PO Box 68 Tyrone, PA 16686 814.684.3113 http://www.vianegativa.us > > My longstanding favorite Ryan poem: > > Blandeur > > > If it please God, > let less happen. > Even out Earth's > rondure, flatten > Eiger, blanden > the Grand Canyon. > Make valleys > slightly higher, > widen fissures > to arable land, > remand your > terrible glaciers > and silence > their calving, > halving or doubling > all geographical features > toward the mean. > Unlean against our hearts. > Withdraw your grandeur > From these parts. > > -- Kay Ryan. Say Uncle. Grove Press, 2000. > > > > > ======================================== > David Graham > grahamd@ripon.edu > > Home Page: > http://web.mac.com/drjazz > > Poetry Library: > http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html > ========================================== > From AlMaginnes at aol.com Thu Jul 17 14:43:00 2008 From: AlMaginnes at aol.com (AlMaginnes@aol.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:26 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Kay Ryan Message-ID: Maybe the new requirement for laureates should be that they wear Ginsberg's Uncle Sam hat for all public appearances.... **************Get the scoop on last night's hottest shows and the live music scene in your area - Check out TourTracker.com! (http://www.tourtracker.com?NCID=aolmus00050000000112) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080717/247a1ddc/attachment.html From halvard at earthlink.net Thu Jul 17 19:30:46 2008 From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:26 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Second call! Submissions requested for a third Big Bridge anthology Message-ID: Friends and neighbors-- For a third mini-anthology of poems, this time inspired by / responding to / related to Barbara Guest's poem "Eating Chocolate Ice Cream: Reading Mayakovsky" and/or the various wars/insurgencies/etc. going on in the world today, please send 1-6 poems and a brief bio to me at halvard@earthlink.net with the words "Big Bridge" followed by your own name clearly in the subject line. Please, when sending attachments, send all poems in a single attachment. Also include a photo if you'd care to have one used. This mini-anthology will appear in the January 2009 issue of Big Bridge, and work received before the end of November 2008 will be considered. The current mini-anthology can be found at http://www.bigbridge.org/WAR-PAP.HTM. And please pass this message along. HJ Halvard Johnson ================ halvard@earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html ==== Eating Chocolate Ice Cream: Reading Mayakovsky Since I've decided to revolutionize my life since " decided " revolutionize " life " How early it is! It is eight o'clock in the morning. Well, the pigeons were up earlier Did you eat all your eggs? Now we shall go for a long walk. Now? There is too much winter. I am going to admire the snow on your coat. Time for hot soup, already? You have worked for three solid hours. I have written forty-eight, no forty-nine, no fifty-one poems. How many states are there? I cannot remember what is uniting America. It is then time for your nap. What a lovely, pleasant dream I just had. But I like waking up better. I do admire reality like snow on my coat. Would you take cream or lemon in your tea? No sugar? And no cigarettes. Daytime is good, but evening is better. I do like our evening discussions. Yesterday we talked about Kant. Today let's think about Hegel. In another week we shall have reached Marx. Goody. Life is a joy if one has industrious hands. Supper? Stew and well-cooked. Delicious. Well, perhaps just one more glass of milk. Nine o'clock! Bath time! Soap and a clean rough towel. Bedtime! The Red Army is marching tonight. They shall march through my dreams in their new shiny leather boots, their freshly laundered shirts. All those ugly stains of caviar and champagne and kisses have been rubbed away. They are going to the barracks. They are answering hundreds of pink and yellow and blue and white telephones. How happy and contented and well-fed they look lounging on their fur divans, chanting "Russia how kind you are to us. How kind you are to everybody. We want to live forever." Before I wake up they will throw away their pistols, and magically factories will spring up where once there was rifle fire, a roulette factory, where once a body fell from an open window. Hurry dear dream I am waiting for you under the eiderdown. And tomorrow will be more real, perhaps, than yesterday. --Barbara Guest fr. Angel Hair 5, Spring 1968 in The Angel Hair Anthology [New York: Granary Books, 2001] -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080717/47428d17/attachment.html From jforjames at aol.com Thu Jul 17 22:30:57 2008 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames@aol.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:26 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: favorite Kay Ryan poems In-Reply-To: <568472.31037.qm@web30206.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <8CAB69570115FD4-7D4-1824@FWM-M43.sysops.aol.com> I'm happy Kay Ryan is part of the panoply of contemporary poetry. I'm pleased that a woman got this high-profile?post. And she's a lesbian, which is nice,?in these times where the debate about gay marriage rages on beyond reason. But, I'm not a great fan of her poetry. I'm going to go back and read some more but from what I've seen it's pretty slight. It's wordplay, it's fun.?It doesn't test any boundaries of sense or emotional nuance.?It's?short which I count as good thing among poets who value play. But?I don't see any 'philosophical' component as was mentioned in the NY Times announcement. I don't see a lot a depth or complexity. Hugh Kenner, if I'm not mistaken, criticized Stevens as an?Edward Lear sensibility pushed to the?extremes, and I get the same feeling about Ryan. Early Stevens was dominated by the art deco ditty, but he still managed to push out a few masterpieces and the later stuff made?his reputation. Since Ryan doesn't seem to do?long or obscure or challenging, one wishes she'd be a bit more like?Emily Dickinson, quirky to the extreme, seething genius inside a small and seemingly demur package, stranger than anyone else on scene?and maybe even?a bit whacked.? Of course being Poet Laureate doesn't mean one is an exemplar of best America has to offer. Sometimes it seems a lifetime achievement award. Lately it's been about promotion of poetry or being a poet who doesn't offput. Dana Gioia & The Poetry Foundation, both of whose hand I see in this appointment, want desperately that poetry be people-friendly and an affable neighbor. In this way, Kay Ryan won't disappoint. My bet is that she'll be quite winning even if reluctant to be thrust more into the public eye. Ginsberg would have been a disaster as Poet Laureate. Not because he didn't deserve it, but because he would be chewing up the furniture and calling attention to his gayness and?lefty?politics, which is not what Poet Laureate 'should' be doing. Remember the lengthy term of Amiri Baraka as Poet Laureate of New Jersey. He was quickly banished. (Irony of ironies was the fact that closet gay Governor Jim McGreevy was one of Baraka's main detractors, and soon followed Baraka, driven?into the highwayed hinterlands beyond Trenton.) Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: Dave Bonta To: new-poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Thu, 17 Jul 2008 2:37 pm Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: favorite Kay Ryan poems Here's one of my favorite Ryan poems: OSPREY The great taloned osprey nests in Scotland. Her nest's the biggest thing around, a spiked basket with hungry ugly osprey offspring in it. For months she sits on it. He fishes, riding two-pound salmon home like rockets. They get all the way there before they die, so muscular and brilliant swimming through the sky. I still can't bring myself to refer to the Poetry Consultant to the Librarian of Congress as Poet Laureate - what an absurd conceit! But if it brings public attention to great poetry, what the hell. And some of the Poetry Consultants have come up with fairly nifty poetry-promotion schemes, I guess. I'd like to see someone use the position to bring attention and funding to the effort to save endangered languages (and hence oral poetry traditions) in the the U.S. Dave Bonta PO Box 68 Tyrone, PA 16686 814.684.3113 http://www.vianegativa.us > > My longstanding favorite Ryan poem: > > Blandeur > > > If it please God, > let less happen. > Even out Earth's > rondure, flatten > Eiger, blanden > the Grand Canyon. > Make valleys > slightly higher, > widen fissures > to arable land, > remand your > terrible glaciers > and silence > their calving, > halving or doubling > all geographical features > toward the mean. > Unlean against our hearts. > Withdraw your grandeur > From these parts. > > -- Kay Ryan. Say Uncle. Grove Press, 2000. > > > > > ======================================== > David Graham > grahamd@ripon.edu > > Home Page: > http://web.mac.com/drjazz > > Poetry Library: > http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html > ========================================== > _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080717/37a4db20/attachment.html From jfq at myuw.net Thu Jul 17 22:37:35 2008 From: jfq at myuw.net (Jason Quackenbush) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:26 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: favorite Kay Ryan poems In-Reply-To: <568472.31037.qm@web30206.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <568472.31037.qm@web30206.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <145D0ADF-D930-4A8F-B6AA-AC05F1A75554@myuw.net> I agree, particularly given that lakota is one of the most beautiful sounding languages i've ever heard and as an indigenous language is a true natural human treasure of north america, and yet most people don't have the opportunity to ever hear it, and studying it is extremely difficult even for someone motivated to seek it out. were i poet laureate, i'd be using my time an position to load youtube up with sioux nation story tellers. On Jul 17, 2008, at 11:37 AM, Dave Bonta wrote: > Here's one of my favorite Ryan poems: > > OSPREY > > The great taloned osprey > nests in Scotland. > Her nest's the biggest > thing around, a spiked basket > with hungry ugly osprey offspring > in it. For months she sits on it. > He fishes, riding two-pound salmon > home like rockets. They get > all the way there before they die, > so muscular and brilliant > swimming through the sky. > > > > I still can't bring myself to refer to the Poetry Consultant to the > Librarian of Congress as Poet Laureate - what an absurd conceit! > But if it brings public attention to great poetry, what the hell. > And some of the Poetry Consultants have come up with fairly nifty > poetry-promotion schemes, I guess. I'd like to see someone use the > position to bring attention and funding to the effort to save > endangered languages (and hence oral poetry traditions) in the the > U.S. > > Dave Bonta > PO Box 68 > Tyrone, PA 16686 > 814.684.3113 > http://www.vianegativa.us > > >> >> My longstanding favorite Ryan poem: >> >> Blandeur >> >> >> If it please God, >> let less happen. >> Even out Earth's >> rondure, flatten >> Eiger, blanden >> the Grand Canyon. >> Make valleys >> slightly higher, >> widen fissures >> to arable land, >> remand your >> terrible glaciers >> and silence >> their calving, >> halving or doubling >> all geographical features >> toward the mean. >> Unlean against our hearts. >> Withdraw your grandeur >> From these parts. >> >> -- Kay Ryan. Say Uncle. Grove Press, 2000. >> >> >> >> >> ======================================== >> David Graham >> grahamd@ripon.edu >> >> Home Page: >> http://web.mac.com/drjazz >> >> Poetry Library: >> http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html >> ========================================== >> > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry Jason Quackenbush jfq@myuw.net From amyhappens at yahoo.com Thu Jul 17 23:07:16 2008 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:26 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Tomorrow, Friday Night -- Baker, Cordelli, Field, Need, Newton , and Tonelli Message-ID: <311036.90903.qm@web83311.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> The Stain of Poetry Reading Series presents July 25th @ 7 p.m. - Stain Bar - Williamsburg , Brooklyn ** Baker, Cordelli, Field, Need, Newton , and Tonelli ** ~~~ Andrea Baker is the author of like wind loves a window (Slope Editions, 2005) and the chapbooks gilda (Poetry Society of America, 2004) and true poems about the river go like this (Cannibal Books, 2008). ~~~~ Phil Cordelli cleans lawns, carries on a love affair with the tuliptrees of Upper Manhattan that may not be carrying on for much longer now, and acts as a conduit for poetic impulses from the plant world. More on this as it develops. ~~~~ Farrah Field?s first book, Rising, is forthcoming in early 2009 by Four Way Books. Her poems have appeared in many publications such as the Mississippi Review, Margie, Chelsea , The Massachusetts Review, Typo, Harp & Altar, and are forthcoming in Pebble Lake Review, Another Chicago Magazine, Fulcrum, and 42Opus. She lives in Brooklyn . ~~~~ Originally from Massachusetts , David Need lives in Durham , NC and works as an instructor in the Religion Department at Duke, teaching classes on Buddhism, South Asian Religions, and Religion and Poetry. Recent and upcoming publications include several suites published in Fascicle 2 & 3, a translation/essay series on Rg Veda poetry in Talisman, an excerpt from ?Places I?ve Lived? upcoming in Minor American, and excerpts from ?St. John?s Rose Slumber? upcoming in Effing and Hambone. Several years ago Mipoesis ran a series of essays by David on Rilke and three short memoir pieces, and Ocho ran yet another sonnet suite. Current projects include a long poem written alongside the Gospel of Mark, ?Places I?ve Lived?, which is evolving into an open ended project, finalizing a collection of translations of Rilke?s French poetry, and yet another Rg Veda essay, this one on the theme of twins there and in the poetry of Nate Mackey. David is associated with the NC lucipo poets, and lives with his scholar wife and four cats. ~~~~ Keith Newton edits the online magazine Harp & Altar. His poems and translations have appeared in Harvard Review, Cannibal, Typo, and Circumference, among other journals, and a chapbook of his work is forthcoming in 2008 from Cannibal Books. He lives in Brooklyn . ~~~ Chris Tonelli lives in the Boston area where he runs The So and So Series. He has work forthcoming in Saltgrass, Salt Hill, Absent, and Good Foot, and is the author of three chapbooks: For People Who Like Gravity and Other People (Rope-A-Dope Press, forthcoming), A Mule-Shaped Cloud (w/ Sarah Bartlett, horse less press, 2008), and WIDE TREE: Short Poems (Kitchen Press, 2006). ~~~~ stain 766 grand street brooklyn, ny 11211 (L train to Grand Street , 1 block west) 718/387-7840 open daily @ 5 p.m. ~~~~ Hosted by Amy King and Ana Bozicevic ~~~~ The rest of the year's dishes served up here: http://thestainofpoetry.wordpress.com/ http://thestainofpoetry.wordpress.com/ http://thestainofpoetry.wordpress.com/ _______ Recent http://www.tarpaulinsky.com/Reviews/kiss-me.html http://jacketmagazine.com/34/dickow-king.shtml Alias http://www.amyking.org Your Suggestions http://amyking.wordpress.com/2008/06/12/poetry-exercises-wanted/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080717/a2e1c9fc/attachment.html From amyhappens at yahoo.com Thu Jul 17 23:16:02 2008 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:26 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] July 25th -- Friday Night -- Baker, Cordelli, Field, Need, Newton , and Tonelli In-Reply-To: <311036.90903.qm@web83311.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <577159.9501.qm@web83302.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Apologies - the reading is not tomorrow but is one week from tomorrow. Too much absinthe. xo amy king wrote: The Stain of Poetry Reading Series presents July 25th @ 7 p.m. - Stain Bar - Williamsburg , Brooklyn ** Baker, Cordelli, Field, Need, Newton , and Tonelli ** ~~~ Andrea Baker is the author of like wind loves a window (Slope Editions, 2005) and the chapbooks gilda (Poetry Society of America, 2004) and true poems about the river go like this (Cannibal Books, 2008). ~~~~ Phil Cordelli cleans lawns, carries on a love affair with the tuliptrees of Upper Manhattan that may not be carrying on for much longer now, and acts as a conduit for poetic impulses from the plant world. More on this as it develops. ~~~~ Farrah Field?s first book, Rising, is forthcoming in early 2009 by Four Way Books. Her poems have appeared in many publications such as the Mississippi Review, Margie, Chelsea , The Massachusetts Review, Typo, Harp & Altar, and are forthcoming in Pebble Lake Review, Another Chicago Magazine, Fulcrum, and 42Opus. She lives in Brooklyn . ~~~~ Originally from Massachusetts , David Need lives in Durham , NC and works as an instructor in the Religion Department at Duke, teaching classes on Buddhism, South Asian Religions, and Religion and Poetry. Recent and upcoming publications include several suites published in Fascicle 2 & 3, a translation/essay series on Rg Veda poetry in Talisman, an excerpt from ?Places I?ve Lived? upcoming in Minor American, and excerpts from ?St. John?s Rose Slumber? upcoming in Effing and Hambone. Several years ago Mipoesis ran a series of essays by David on Rilke and three short memoir pieces, and Ocho ran yet another sonnet suite. Current projects include a long poem written alongside the Gospel of Mark, ?Places I?ve Lived?, which is evolving into an open ended project, finalizing a collection of translations of Rilke?s French poetry, and yet another Rg Veda essay, this one on the theme of twins there and in the poetry of Nate Mackey. David is associated with the NC lucipo poets, and lives with his scholar wife and four cats. ~~~~ Keith Newton edits the online magazine Harp & Altar. His poems and translations have appeared in Harvard Review, Cannibal, Typo, and Circumference, among other journals, and a chapbook of his work is forthcoming in 2008 from Cannibal Books. He lives in Brooklyn . ~~~ Chris Tonelli lives in the Boston area where he runs The So and So Series. He has work forthcoming in Saltgrass, Salt Hill, Absent, and Good Foot, and is the author of three chapbooks: For People Who Like Gravity and Other People (Rope-A-Dope Press, forthcoming), A Mule-Shaped Cloud (w/ Sarah Bartlett, horse less press, 2008), and WIDE TREE: Short Poems (Kitchen Press, 2006). ~~~~ stain 766 grand street brooklyn, ny 11211 (L train to Grand Street , 1 block west) 718/387-7840 open daily @ 5 p.m. ~~~~ Hosted by Amy King and Ana Bozicevic ~~~~ The rest of the year's dishes served up here: http://thestainofpoetry.wordpress.com/ http://thestainofpoetry.wordpress.com/ http://thestainofpoetry.wordpress.com/ _______ Recent http://www.tarpaulinsky.com/Reviews/kiss-me.html http://jacketmagazine.com/34/dickow-king.shtml Alias http://www.amyking.org Your Suggestions http://amyking.wordpress.com/2008/06/12/poetry-exercises-wanted/ ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html _______ Recent http://www.tarpaulinsky.com/Reviews/kiss-me.html http://jacketmagazine.com/34/dickow-king.shtml Alias http://www.amyking.org Your Suggestions http://amyking.wordpress.com/2008/06/12/poetry-exercises-wanted/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080717/938d8d1c/attachment.html From letitia.trent at gmail.com Fri Jul 18 09:50:18 2008 From: letitia.trent at gmail.com (L Trent) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:26 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] New Issue of 21 Stars Review Message-ID: Hi all! The new issue of 21 Stars Review (http://www.sundress.net/21stars/) is up with Anne Bogle as guest fiction editor, featuring the work of... Pranshu Arya Gary Beck Peter Charles Beth Coyote Erik Dickey Thomas Fink and Maya Diablo Mason Harry Johnson Mark Howard Jones Andrea Lewis Philip Lund Josh May Ashok Niyogi Ateet Tuli Laura Wetherington William Yazbec http://www.sundress.net/21stars -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080718/ec4333ba/attachment.html From jforjames at aol.com Fri Jul 18 10:56:45 2008 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames@aol.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:26 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] litmag watch: abalone moon Message-ID: <8CAB6FDA176CB6F-1818-5063@mblk-d49.sysops.aol.com> http://www.abalonemoon.com/index.html -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080718/3a8dc550/attachment.html From jforjames at aol.com Fri Jul 18 13:17:48 2008 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames@aol.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:26 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Parini makes his case for Why Poetry Matters Message-ID: <8CAB71156189E54-E3C-B89@webmail-de19.sysops.aol.com> http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,24024076-16947,00.html Truly, madly, deeply Poetry may be out of fashion, but it is still the finest expression of what makes us human, writes Jay Parini | July 19, 2008 POETRY doesn't matter to most people. They go about their business as usual, rarely consulting their Shakespeare, William Wordsworth or Robert Frost. One has to wonder if poetry has any place in the 21stcentury, when music videos and satellite television offer daunting competition for poems, which demand a good deal of attention and considerable analytic skills as well as some knowledge of the traditions of poetry. In the 19th century, poets such as Walter Scott, Byron and Henry Wadsworth Longfellow had huge audiences across the world. Their works were bestsellers, and they were cultural heroes as well. But readers had few choices in those days. One imagines, perhaps falsely, that people liked poetry. It provided them with narratives that entertained and inspired. It gave them words to attach to their feelings. They enjoyed folk ballads, too. In a sense, music and poetry joined hands. In the 20th century, something went amiss... -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080718/538d6ad0/attachment.html From jforjames at aol.com Fri Jul 18 13:55:22 2008 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames@aol.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:26 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Ryan on Bronk Message-ID: <8CAB71695C70F92-E3C-F0B@webmail-de19.sysops.aol.com> http://poetryfoundation.org/archive/feature.html?id=177750 I ran across this on The?Poetry Foundation site. Makes sense that Ryan would appreciate Bronk. I was thinking yesterday that?they shared a wry wit and preference for short aslant?poems. He was bit darker than she is. A spectrum of poets in this baubles-to-brickbats?class might include the late Alan Dugan.And perhaps David Shapiro on jokier side? Finnegan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080718/fe6d5939/attachment.html From GrahamD at ripon.edu Fri Jul 18 15:48:23 2008 From: GrahamD at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:26 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Wm. Logan's Mistakes Message-ID: <2EB1BF82-9B14-44D1-ACDD-A51571D66415@ripon.edu> William Logan's mistakes include Sullen Weedy Lakes. Can anyone think of a worse title for a book of verse? --David Lehman. The Best American Poetry. http://thebestamericanpoetry.typepad.com/ the_best_american_poetry/ ======================================== David Graham grahamd@ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.mac.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080718/1de5f3b9/attachment.html From Opus40-01 at opus40.org Fri Jul 18 15:55:52 2008 From: Opus40-01 at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:27 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Wm. Logan's Mistakes In-Reply-To: <2EB1BF82-9B14-44D1-ACDD-A51571D66415@ripon.edu> References: <2EB1BF82-9B14-44D1-ACDD-A51571D66415@ripon.edu> Message-ID: <4880F548.7020800@opus40.org> For some reason, no one can really make this form work the E. C. Bentley did. David Graham wrote: > > William Logan's mistakes > include /Sullen Weedy Lakes/. > Can anyone think of a worse > title for a book of verse? > > --David Lehman/. //The Best American Poetry./ > > > http://thebestamericanpoetry.typepad.com/the_best_american_poetry/ > > > > > > ======================================== > David Graham > grahamd@ripon.edu > > Home Page: > http://web.mac.com/drjazz > > Poetry Library: > http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html > ========================================== > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ The moral is this: in American verse, The better you are, the pay is worse. --Corey Ford From millb at aol.com Fri Jul 18 15:57:29 2008 From: millb at aol.com (millb@aol.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:27 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Wm. Logan's Mistakes In-Reply-To: <2EB1BF82-9B14-44D1-ACDD-A51571D66415@ripon.edu> References: <2EB1BF82-9B14-44D1-ACDD-A51571D66415@ripon.edu> Message-ID: <8CAB727A4B385C7-1748-4A19@webmail-nd08.sysops.aol.com> Scrambled Eggs and Whiskey? Cheers, Mill Http://www.MillicentBorgesAccardi.com -----Original Message----- From: David Graham To: new-poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu & Views Sent: Fri, 18 Jul 2008 12:48 pm Subject: [New-Poetry] Wm. Logan's Mistakes ?? ?William Logan's mistakes ?? ?include?Sullen Weedy Lakes. ?? ?Can anyone think of a worse ?? ?title for a book of verse? ?? ? ? ? ?--David Lehman. ?The Best American Poetry. ?? ? ? ? ?http://thebestamericanpoetry.typepad.com/the_best_american_poetry/ ======================================== David Graham grahamd@ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.mac.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== = _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080718/63b2e3df/attachment.html From grahamd at ripon.edu Fri Jul 18 16:02:19 2008 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:27 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Wm. Logan's Mistakes In-Reply-To: <4880F548.7020800@opus40.org> References: <2EB1BF82-9B14-44D1-ACDD-A51571D66415@ripon.edu> <4880F548.7020800@opus40.org> Message-ID: <76DA045B-E7B1-4C25-96B5-1D6B8C559071@ripon.edu> That may be so, but let's all try to answer the question: *can* we think of a worse title for a book of poems? One that was actually published, that is. I used to think that James Tate's *The Oblivion Ha-Ha* was among the dorkiest titles, but it's sort of grown on me. . . . ======================================== David Graham grahamd@ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.mac.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== On Jul 18, 2008, at 3:55 PM, TheOldMole wrote: > For some reason, no one can really make this form work the E. C. > Bentley did. > > David Graham wrote: >> >> William Logan's mistakes >> include /Sullen Weedy Lakes/. >> Can anyone think of a worse >> title for a book of verse? >> >> --David Lehman/. //The Best American Poetry./ >> >> http://thebestamericanpoetry.typepad.com/ >> the_best_american_poetry/ >> >> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080718/42af1bc1/attachment.html From lsgrimes at stonegulch.com Fri Jul 18 16:24:10 2008 From: lsgrimes at stonegulch.com (Linda Sue Grimes) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:27 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Wm. Logan's Mistakes References: <2EB1BF82-9B14-44D1-ACDD-A51571D66415@ripon.edu> Message-ID: <002e01c8e914$3d8bd0d0$0201a8c0@LindaSue> The Light Around the Body ----- Original Message ----- From: David Graham To: new-poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu & Views Sent: Friday, July 18, 2008 2:48 PM Subject: [New-Poetry] Wm. Logan's Mistakes William Logan's mistakes include Sullen Weedy Lakes. Can anyone think of a worse title for a book of verse? --David Lehman. The Best American Poetry. http://thebestamericanpoetry.typepad.com/the_best_american_poetry/ ======================================== David Graham grahamd@ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.mac.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080718/0dc4b21b/attachment.html From millb at aol.com Fri Jul 18 16:27:00 2008 From: millb at aol.com (millb@aol.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:27 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Wm. Logan's Mistakes In-Reply-To: <002e01c8e914$3d8bd0d0$0201a8c0@LindaSue> References: <2EB1BF82-9B14-44D1-ACDD-A51571D66415@ripon.edu> <002e01c8e914$3d8bd0d0$0201a8c0@LindaSue> Message-ID: <8CAB72BC42A6859-1748-4B63@webmail-nd08.sysops.aol.com> Scrambled Eggs and Whiskey (poems 1991-1995) Hayden Carruth Cheers, Mill Http://www.MillicentBorgesAccardi.com -----Original Message----- From: Linda Sue Grimes Sent: Fri, 18 Jul 2008 1:24 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Wm. Logan's Mistakes The Light Around the Body ----- Original Message ----- From: David Graham To: new-poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu & Views Sent: Friday, July 18, 2008 2:48 PM Subject: [New-Poetry] Wm. Logan's Mistakes ?? ?William Logan's mistakes ?? ?include?Sullen Weedy Lakes. ?? ?Can anyone think of a worse ?? ?title for a book of verse? ?? ? ? ? ?--David Lehman. ?The Best American Poetry. ?? ? ? ? ?http://thebestamericanpoetry.typepad.com/the_best_american_poetry/ ======================================== David Graham grahamd@ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.mac.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080718/9f792453/attachment.html From jforjames at aol.com Sat Jul 19 10:33:02 2008 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames@aol.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:27 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Wm. Logan's Mistakes In-Reply-To: <76DA045B-E7B1-4C25-96B5-1D6B8C559071@ripon.edu> References: <2EB1BF82-9B14-44D1-ACDD-A51571D66415@ripon.edu> <4880F548.7020800@opus40.org> <76DA045B-E7B1-4C25-96B5-1D6B8C559071@ripon.edu> Message-ID: <8CAB7C37BC784AC-11D0-4D1A@FWM-M42.sysops.aol.com> How about When?a Woman Loves?a Man by David Lehman. -----Original Message----- From: David Graham Sent: Fri, 18 Jul 2008 4:02 pm Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Wm. Logan's Mistakes That may be so, but let's all try to answer the question: ?*can* we think of a worse title for a book of poems? ?One that was actually published, that is. I used to think that James Tate's *The Oblivion Ha-Ha* was among the dorkiest titles, but it's sort of grown on me. . . . ======================================== David Graham grahamd@ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.mac.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== On Jul 18, 2008, at 3:55 PM, TheOldMole wrote: For some reason, no one can really make this form work the E. C. Bentley did. David Graham wrote: ? ? William Logan's mistakes ? ? include /Sullen Weedy Lakes/. ? ? Can anyone think of a worse ? ? title for a book of verse? ? ? ? ? ? --David Lehman/.? //The Best American Poetry./ ? ? ? ? ? http://thebestamericanpoetry.typepad.com/the_best_american_poetry/ = _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080719/261fea8e/attachment.html From JforJames at aol.com Sat Jul 19 13:42:08 2008 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames@aol.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:27 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] More on Ryan at SFGate Message-ID: _http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/07/17/MN8411QTIU.DTL_ (http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/07/17/MN8411QTIU.DTL) While Ryan has yet to decide what pet project to take on as poet laureate, she has definite ideas about what poetry should do. "Poetry should leave you feeling freer and not more burdened," she said. "I like to think of all good poetry as providing more oxygen in the atmosphere. Poems just make it easier to breathe." **************Get fantasy football with free live scoring. Sign up for FanHouse Fantasy Football today. (http://www.fanhouse.com/fantasyaffair?ncid=aolspr00050000000020) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080719/fa6311ea/attachment.html From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sat Jul 19 17:45:24 2008 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:27 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Wm. Logan's Mistakes In-Reply-To: <8CAB7C37BC784AC-11D0-4D1A@FWM-M42.sysops.aol.com> References: <2EB1BF82-9B14-44D1-ACDD-A51571D66415@ripon.edu> <4880F548.7020800@opus40.org><76DA045B-E7B1-4C25-96B5-1D6B8C559071@ripon.edu> <8CAB7C37BC784AC-11D0-4D1A@FWM-M42.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <48826074.4090502@nut-n-but.net> jforjames@aol.com wrote: > How about When a Woman Loves a Man by David Lehman. Hey, James, political correctness isn't a mistake if he meant it in jest. --Bob G. From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sat Jul 19 17:46:22 2008 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:27 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Wm. Logan's Mistakes In-Reply-To: <8CAB7C37BC784AC-11D0-4D1A@FWM-M42.sysops.aol.com> References: <2EB1BF82-9B14-44D1-ACDD-A51571D66415@ripon.edu> <4880F548.7020800@opus40.org><76DA045B-E7B1-4C25-96B5-1D6B8C559071@ripon.edu> <8CAB7C37BC784AC-11D0-4D1A@FWM-M42.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <488260AE.3080703@nut-n-but.net> jforjames@aol.com wrote: > How about When a Woman Loves a Man by David Lehman. > > I blew it. I meant "political INcorrectness isn't a mistake if one > meant it as a joke." --Bob G. From rog3r.day at gmail.com Sat Jul 19 17:31:26 2008 From: rog3r.day at gmail.com (Roger Day) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:27 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Wm. Logan's Mistakes In-Reply-To: <488260AE.3080703@nut-n-but.net> References: <2EB1BF82-9B14-44D1-ACDD-A51571D66415@ripon.edu> <4880F548.7020800@opus40.org> <76DA045B-E7B1-4C25-96B5-1D6B8C559071@ripon.edu> <8CAB7C37BC784AC-11D0-4D1A@FWM-M42.sysops.aol.com> <488260AE.3080703@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: yeah, right. That burr's stick so far up your arse you dont know if you're coming or going. Sincerely On Sat, Jul 19, 2008 at 10:46 PM, Bob Grumman wrote: > > > jforjames@aol.com wrote: >> >> How about When aye3ah Woman Loves a Man by David Lehman. >> >> I blew it. I meant "political INcorrectness isn't a mistake if one meant >> it as a joke." > > --Bob G. > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- My Stuff: http://www.badstep.net/ "I began to warm and chill to objects and their fields" Nick Cave & The Bad Seeds From rog3r.day at gmail.com Sat Jul 19 17:59:23 2008 From: rog3r.day at gmail.com (Roger Day) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:27 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Kay Ryan new Poet Laureate In-Reply-To: <003e01c8e7fd$312ca250$0201a8c0@LindaSue> References: <214960.33631.qm@web83310.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <003e01c8e7fd$312ca250$0201a8c0@LindaSue> Message-ID: You speak as if the deal was done, that a woman candidate was au natiurelle, a part of the succession.for every post, the whole field would be considered? Roger On Thu, Jul 17, 2008 at 12:06 PM, Linda Sue Grimes wrote: > Right...There hasn't been a woman poet laureate since 2003. > > > > lsg > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: amy king > To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &,Views ; Women's Poetry > Listserve ; UB Poetics discussion group > Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2008 9:27 PM > Subject: [New-Poetry] Kay Ryan new Poet Laureate > And long overdue, in terms of -- yep -- gender: > > > The list, up to Donald Hall in 2006, appears here [followed by Kooser, > Simic, and now Ryan]: > > U.S. Poet Laureate Timeline [1937 - 2006 = 36 Men and 8 Women] > > http://amyking.wordpress.com/2008/03/23/what%e2%80%99s-love-got-to-do-with-it/ > > ~~~ > > Kay Ryan Named Poet Laureate - NYT: > > http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/17/books/17poet.html > > > _______ > > Recent > http://www.tarpaulinsky.com/Reviews/kiss-me.html > http://jacketmagazine.com/34/dickow-king.shtml > > Alias > http://www.amyking.org > > Your Suggestions > http://amyking.wordpress.com/2008/06/12/poetry-exercises-wanted/ > > ________________________________ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- My Stuff: http://www.badstep.net/ "I began to warm and chill to objects and their fields" Nick Cave & The Bad Seeds From jforjames at aol.com Sat Jul 19 20:02:45 2008 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames@aol.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:27 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Come with me if you want to live, Poet. Message-ID: <8CAB81312876F5B-C10-228E@Webmail-mg15.sim.aol.com> Governor Schwarzenegger Applauds Appointment of Kay Ryan ... http://www.imperialvalleynews.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=2099&Itemid=2 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080719/d993b0f0/attachment.html From jbalizsprince at googlemail.com Sat Jul 19 23:37:27 2008 From: jbalizsprince at googlemail.com (Judy Prince) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:27 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Kay Ryan new Poet Laureate In-Reply-To: References: <214960.33631.qm@web83310.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <003e01c8e7fd$312ca250$0201a8c0@LindaSue> Message-ID: <7db1d01b0807192037x65b44defuffd477d7ecc1c3a9@mail.gmail.com> Roger, could you explain what you just said? Judy 2008/7/19 Roger Day : > You speak as if the deal was done, that a woman candidate was au > natiurelle, a part of the succession.for every post, the whole field > would be considered? > > Roger > > On Thu, Jul 17, 2008 at 12:06 PM, Linda Sue Grimes > wrote: > > Right...There hasn't been a woman poet laureate since 2003. > > > > > > > > lsg > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: amy king > > To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &,Views ; Women's Poetry > > Listserve ; UB Poetics discussion group > > Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2008 9:27 PM > > Subject: [New-Poetry] Kay Ryan new Poet Laureate > > And long overdue, in terms of -- yep -- gender: > > > > > > The list, up to Donald Hall in 2006, appears here [followed by Kooser, > > Simic, and now Ryan]: > > > > U.S. Poet Laureate Timeline [1937 - 2006 = 36 Men and 8 Women] > > > > > http://amyking.wordpress.com/2008/03/23/what%e2%80%99s-love-got-to-do-with-it/ > > > > ~~~ > > > > Kay Ryan Named Poet Laureate - NYT: > > > > http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/17/books/17poet.html > > > > > > _______ > > > > Recent > > http://www.tarpaulinsky.com/Reviews/kiss-me.html > > http://jacketmagazine.com/34/dickow-king.shtml > > > > Alias > > http://www.amyking.org > > > > Your Suggestions > > http://amyking.wordpress.com/2008/06/12/poetry-exercises-wanted/ > > > > ________________________________ > > > > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > > > > -- > My Stuff: http://www.badstep.net/ > "I began to warm and chill > to objects and their fields" > Nick Cave & The Bad Seeds > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080719/19d64b3e/attachment.html From oedipa at gmail.com Sun Jul 20 01:50:56 2008 From: oedipa at gmail.com (oedipa@gmail.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:27 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Kay Ryan new Poet Laureate In-Reply-To: <7db1d01b0807192037x65b44defuffd477d7ecc1c3a9@mail.gmail.com> References: <214960.33631.qm@web83310.mail.sp1.yahoo.com><003e01c8e7fd$312ca250$0201a8c0@LindaSue><7db1d01b0807192037x65b44defuffd477d7ecc1c3a9@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1983665129-1216533049-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-259688702-@bxe163.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> I second that request. On the grounds of "I just didn't understand the answer". For the record, I love Ryan. Karen Windus Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T -----Original Message----- From: "Judy Prince" Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2008 22:37:27 To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &,Views Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Kay Ryan new Poet Laureate _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From lsgrimes at stonegulch.com Sun Jul 20 06:40:10 2008 From: lsgrimes at stonegulch.com (Linda Sue Grimes) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:28 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Kay Ryan new Poet Laureate References: <214960.33631.qm@web83310.mail.sp1.yahoo.com><003e01c8e7fd$312ca250$0201a8c0@LindaSue> <7db1d01b0807192037x65b44defuffd477d7ecc1c3a9@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <003601c8ea54$fc752ff0$0201a8c0@LindaSue> I think he misunderstood my remark. He's trying to say, "you think that there should be an even split of men and women chosen to the post." Actually, I was reacting to the odd claim that appointing a woman was "long overdue," because there had been a woman only five years ago in 2003-2004. Five years is " long overdue"? Now, however, I too would like to know what he intended to say. Is English not his first language? Obviously, French isn't. lsg ----- Original Message ----- From: Judy Prince To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &,Views Sent: Saturday, July 19, 2008 10:37 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Kay Ryan new Poet Laureate Roger, could you explain what you just said? Judy 2008/7/19 Roger Day : You speak as if the deal was done, that a woman candidate was au natiurelle, a part of the succession.for every post, the whole field would be considered? Roger On Thu, Jul 17, 2008 at 12:06 PM, Linda Sue Grimes wrote: > Right...There hasn't been a woman poet laureate since 2003. > > > > lsg > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: amy king > To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &,Views ; Women's Poetry > Listserve ; UB Poetics discussion group > Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2008 9:27 PM > Subject: [New-Poetry] Kay Ryan new Poet Laureate > And long overdue, in terms of -- yep -- gender: > > > The list, up to Donald Hall in 2006, appears here [followed by Kooser, > Simic, and now Ryan]: > > U.S. Poet Laureate Timeline [1937 - 2006 = 36 Men and 8 Women] > > http://amyking.wordpress.com/2008/03/23/what%e2%80%99s-love-got-to-do-with-it/ > > ~~~ > > Kay Ryan Named Poet Laureate - NYT: > > http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/17/books/17poet.html > > > _______ > > Recent > http://www.tarpaulinsky.com/Reviews/kiss-me.html > http://jacketmagazine.com/34/dickow-king.shtml > > Alias > http://www.amyking.org > > Your Suggestions > http://amyking.wordpress.com/2008/06/12/poetry-exercises-wanted/ > > ________________________________ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- My Stuff: http://www.badstep.net/ "I began to warm and chill to objects and their fields" Nick Cave & The Bad Seeds _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080720/b9c1ec98/attachment.html From lsgrimes at stonegulch.com Sun Jul 20 06:51:55 2008 From: lsgrimes at stonegulch.com (Linda Sue Grimes) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:28 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Kay Ryan new Poet Laureate References: <214960.33631.qm@web83310.mail.sp1.yahoo.com><003e01c8e7fd$312ca250$0201a8c0@LindaSue><7db1d01b0807192037x65b44defuffd477d7ecc1c3a9@mail.gmail.com> <1983665129-1216533049-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-259688702-@bxe163.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Message-ID: <004401c8ea56$a0a6c470$0201a8c0@LindaSue> She is super qualified to be poet laureate, and I admire the philosophy reflected in, "I have tried to live very quietly, so I could be happy," as she told the Christian Science Monitor. lsg ----- Original Message ----- From: oedipa@gmail.com To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views Sent: Sunday, July 20, 2008 12:50 AM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Kay Ryan new Poet Laureate I second that request. On the grounds of "I just didn't understand the answer". For the record, I love Ryan. Karen Windus Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T -----Original Message----- From: "Judy Prince" Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2008 22:37:27 To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &,Views Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Kay Ryan new Poet Laureate _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080720/72eafe5a/attachment.html From jbalizsprince at googlemail.com Sun Jul 20 08:54:30 2008 From: jbalizsprince at googlemail.com (Judy Prince) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:28 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Kay Ryan new Poet Laureate In-Reply-To: <004401c8ea56$a0a6c470$0201a8c0@LindaSue> References: <214960.33631.qm@web83310.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <003e01c8e7fd$312ca250$0201a8c0@LindaSue> <7db1d01b0807192037x65b44defuffd477d7ecc1c3a9@mail.gmail.com> <1983665129-1216533049-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-259688702-@bxe163.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> <004401c8ea56$a0a6c470$0201a8c0@LindaSue> Message-ID: <7db1d01b0807200554n76d54384meff9ffc946a6446e@mail.gmail.com> Next go round, I'd vote for Liz Bassett, despite her being a UK resident (I think). I've only read 3 of her poems, each in the Guardian's Poetry Workshop. Here's one, first up, in John Burnside's workshop: http://books.guardian.co.uk/poetryworkshop/story/0,,1606789,00.html My thing's democracy, as Roger knows, so actual voting seems reasonable. One person, one vote. You could go on any of thousands of blogs or websites that voluntarily provide the bit for voting, and enter your social security number (name not necessary) and the name of the person you'd want for Poet Laureate (or, pref, some other title). Imagine, wot with folks lobbying for friend-poets and themselves----the incredible outpour of information that'd precede the vote! Mite find we've elected a 5-year old! HA! Best to all, Judy Prince 2008/7/20 Linda Sue Grimes : > She is super qualified to be poet laureate, and I admire the philosophy > reflected in, "I have tried to live very quietly, so I could be happy," as > she told the *Christian Science Monitor*. > > lsg > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* oedipa@gmail.com > *To:* NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views > *Sent:* Sunday, July 20, 2008 12:50 AM > *Subject:* Re: [New-Poetry] Kay Ryan new Poet Laureate > > I second that request. On the grounds of "I just didn't understand the > answer". > > For the record, I love Ryan. > > > Karen Windus > > > > Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T > > -----Original Message----- > From: "Judy Prince" > > Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2008 22:37:27 > To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &,Views< > new-poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu> > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Kay Ryan new Poet Laureate > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080720/a47eff1f/attachment.html From grahamd at ripon.edu Sun Jul 20 10:13:54 2008 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:28 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] US Poets Laureate by gender In-Reply-To: <003601c8ea54$fc752ff0$0201a8c0@LindaSue> References: <214960.33631.qm@web83310.mail.sp1.yahoo.com><003e01c8e7fd$312ca250$0201a8c0@LindaSue> <7db1d01b0807192037x65b44defuffd477d7ecc1c3a9@mail.gmail.com> <003601c8ea54$fc752ff0$0201a8c0@LindaSue> Message-ID: <7311CB66-456A-417A-B6F1-FC89B628ABD1@ripon.edu> The Consultant/Laureate position dates back to 1937, when Joseph Auslander served as our first national poet. (Who?) Initially there was no fixed term; he served until 1941. Of the seven poets named in the 1940s, three were women: Louise Bogan, Leonie Adams, and Elizabeth Bishop. After that things got worse for gender equity; the next woman named was Josephine Jacobsen, in 1971. In other words, no women at all served in the 1950s or 1960s; par for the course in terms of poetic politics in those days. What's a little eye-opening is how little things changed as the women's movement flourished in the 1960s and 70s, for Jacobsen in 1971 was it for both those decades. Next was Maxine Kumin in 1981. Gwendolyn Brooks came in 1985. From 1992 on we've had Mona Van Duyn, Rita Dove, Louise Gluck, and now Kay Ryan. So, nothing close to gender equity even in the past 2 decades, when one might expect more attention to such matters. As measly as representation by women assuredly has been, take a look at racial balance if you'd like to see some real disparity. . . . 1937-1941 ? Joseph Auslander 1943-1944 ? Allen Tate 1944-1945 ?Robert Penn Warren 1945-1946 ? Louise Bogan 1946-1947 ? Karl Shapiro 1947-1948 ? Robert Lowell 1948-1949 ? Leonie Adams 1949-1950 ? Elizabeth Bishop 1950 - 1952 ? Conrad Aiken 1952 ? William Carlos Williams 1956-1958 ? Randall Jarrell 1958-1959 ? Robert Frost 1959-1961 ? Richard Eberhart 1961-1963 ? Louis Untermeyer 1963-1964 ? Howard Nemerov 1964-1965 ? Reed Whittemore 1965-1966 ? Stephen Spender 1966-1968 ? James Dickey 1968-1970 ? William Jay Smith 1970-1971 ? William Stafford 1971-1973 ? Josephine Jacobsen 1973-1974 ? Daniel Hoffman 1974-1976 ? Stanley Kunitz 1976-1978 ? Robert Hayden 1978-1980 ? William Meredith 1981-1982 ? Maxine Kumin 1982-1984 ? Anthony Hecht 1984-1985 ? Robert Fitzgerald 1984-1985 ? Reed Whittemore 1985-1986 ? Gwendolyn Brooks 1986-1987 ? Robert Penn Warren 1987-1988 ? Richard Wilbur 1988-1990 ? Howard Nemerov 1990-1991 ? Mark Strand 1991-1992 ? Joseph Brodsky 1992-1993 ? Mona Van Duyn 1993-1995 ? Rita Dove 1995-1997 ? Robert Hass 1997-2000 ? Robert Pinsky 1999-2000 ? Special Bicentennial Consultants, 1999-2000: Rita Dove, Louise Gl?ck, and W.S. Merwin 2000-2001 ? Stanley Kunitz 2001-2003 ? Billy Collins 2003-2004 ? Louise Gl?ck 2004-2006 ? Ted Kooser 2006-2007 Donald Hall 2007-8 Charles Simic 2008-- Kay Ryan ======================================== David Graham grahamd@ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.mac.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080720/9411f089/attachment.html From lsgrimes at stonegulch.com Sun Jul 20 10:59:21 2008 From: lsgrimes at stonegulch.com (Linda Sue Grimes) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:28 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] US Poets Laureate by gender References: <214960.33631.qm@web83310.mail.sp1.yahoo.com><003e01c8e7fd$312ca250$0201a8c0@LindaSue><7db1d01b0807192037x65b44defuffd477d7ecc1c3a9@mail.gmail.com><003601c8ea54$fc752ff0$0201a8c0@LindaSue> <7311CB66-456A-417A-B6F1-FC89B628ABD1@ripon.edu> Message-ID: <000d01c8ea79$328b6e00$0201a8c0@LindaSue> The politics of race, gender, class is distracting: the only thing that matters in all areas is the quality of the work and character. In MLK's stance, it is the "content of character," not "color [gender, class] of the skin," by which any candidate for any position should be judged. lsg ----- Original Message ----- From: David Graham To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views Sent: Sunday, July 20, 2008 9:13 AM Subject: [New-Poetry] US Poets Laureate by gender The Consultant/Laureate position dates back to 1937, when Joseph Auslander served as our first national poet. (Who?) Initially there was no fixed term; he served until 1941. Of the seven poets named in the 1940s, three were women: Louise Bogan, Leonie Adams, and Elizabeth Bishop. After that things got worse for gender equity; the next woman named was Josephine Jacobsen, in 1971. In other words, no women at all served in the 1950s or 1960s; par for the course in terms of poetic politics in those days. What's a little eye-opening is how little things changed as the women's movement flourished in the 1960s and 70s, for Jacobsen in 1971 was it for both those decades. Next was Maxine Kumin in 1981. Gwendolyn Brooks came in 1985. From 1992 on we've had Mona Van Duyn, Rita Dove, Louise Gluck, and now Kay Ryan. So, nothing close to gender equity even in the past 2 decades, when one might expect more attention to such matters. As measly as representation by women assuredly has been, take a look at racial balance if you'd like to see some real disparity. . . . 1937-1941 ? Joseph Auslander 1943-1944 ? Allen Tate 1944-1945 ?Robert Penn Warren 1945-1946 ? Louise Bogan 1946-1947 ? Karl Shapiro 1947-1948 ? Robert Lowell 1948-1949 ? Leonie Adams 1949-1950 ? Elizabeth Bishop 1950 - 1952 ? Conrad Aiken 1952 ? William Carlos Williams 1956-1958 ? Randall Jarrell 1958-1959 ? Robert Frost 1959-1961 ? Richard Eberhart 1961-1963 ? Louis Untermeyer 1963-1964 ? Howard Nemerov 1964-1965 ? Reed Whittemore 1965-1966 ? Stephen Spender 1966-1968 ? James Dickey 1968-1970 ? William Jay Smith 1970-1971 ? William Stafford 1971-1973 ? Josephine Jacobsen 1973-1974 ? Daniel Hoffman 1974-1976 ? Stanley Kunitz 1976-1978 ? Robert Hayden 1978-1980 ? William Meredith 1981-1982 ? Maxine Kumin 1982-1984 ? Anthony Hecht 1984-1985 ? Robert Fitzgerald 1984-1985 ? Reed Whittemore 1985-1986 ? Gwendolyn Brooks 1986-1987 ? Robert Penn Warren 1987-1988 ? Richard Wilbur 1988-1990 ? Howard Nemerov 1990-1991 ? Mark Strand 1991-1992 ? Joseph Brodsky 1992-1993 ? Mona Van Duyn 1993-1995 ? Rita Dove 1995-1997 ? Robert Hass 1997-2000 ? Robert Pinsky 1999-2000 ? Special Bicentennial Consultants, 1999-2000: Rita Dove, Louise Gl?ck, and W.S. Merwin 2000-2001 ? Stanley Kunitz 2001-2003 ? Billy Collins 2003-2004 ? Louise Gl?ck 2004-2006 ? Ted Kooser 2006-2007 Donald Hall 2007-8 Charles Simic 2008-- Kay Ryan ======================================== David Graham grahamd@ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.mac.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080720/fb0ebc1b/attachment.html From grahamd at ripon.edu Sun Jul 20 11:22:33 2008 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:28 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: US Poets Laureate by gender In-Reply-To: <000d01c8ea79$328b6e00$0201a8c0@LindaSue> References: <214960.33631.qm@web83310.mail.sp1.yahoo.com><003e01c8e7fd$312ca250$0201a8c0@LindaSue><7db1d01b0807192037x65b44defuffd477d7ecc1c3a9@mail.gmail.com><003601c8ea54$fc752ff0$0201a8c0@LindaSue> <7311CB66-456A-417A-B6F1-FC89B628ABD1@ripon.edu> <000d01c8ea79$328b6e00$0201a8c0@LindaSue> Message-ID: <9F4DF3B7-2554-430E-A595-F21A7F7E546F@ripon.edu> In that case I suppose it would be only fair to look fairly closely at the quality of the work of the Poets Laureate in context. Joseph Auslander and not Marianne Moore, for instance? Louis Untermeyer in place of Langston Hughes? Daniel Hoffman, Reed Whittemore, and William Jay Smith but not Adrienne Rich, Carolyn Kizer, Denise Levertov, Ruth Stone, or Lucille Clifton? The selections always reflect the literary politics of their times. That's a given. In this case I just think some fairly big blind spots are on display. I'm not even sure that laureates should be chosen based solely on the quality of their work; but even if that were my opinion, I'd say the selections have been notably spotty in this regard. ======================================== David Graham grahamd@ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.mac.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== On Jul 20, 2008, at 10:59 AM, Linda Sue Grimes wrote: > The politics of race, gender, class is distracting: the only thing > that matters in all areas is the quality of the work and > character. In MLK's stance, it is the "content of character," not > "color [gender, class] of the skin," by which any candidate for > any position should be judged. > > lsg > ----- Original Message ----- > From: David Graham > To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views > Sent: Sunday, July 20, 2008 9:13 AM > Subject: [New-Poetry] US Poets Laureate by gender > > The Consultant/Laureate position dates back to 1937, when Joseph > Auslander served as our first national poet. (Who?) Initially > there was no fixed term; he served until 1941. Of the seven > poets named in the 1940s, three were women: Louise Bogan, Leonie > Adams, and Elizabeth Bishop. After that things got worse for > gender equity; the next woman named was Josephine Jacobsen, in > 1971. In other words, no women at all served in the 1950s or > 1960s; par for the course in terms of poetic politics in those > days. What's a little eye-opening is how little things changed as > the women's movement flourished in the 1960s and 70s, for Jacobsen > in 1971 was it for both those decades. Next was Maxine Kumin in > 1981. Gwendolyn Brooks came in 1985. From 1992 on we've had Mona > Van Duyn, Rita Dove, Louise Gluck, and now Kay Ryan. So, nothing > close to gender equity even in the past 2 decades, when one might > expect more attention to such matters. > > As measly as representation by women assuredly has been, take a > look at racial balance if you'd like to see some real disparity. . . . > > 1937-1941 ? Joseph Auslander > 1943-1944 ? Allen Tate > 1944-1945 ?Robert Penn Warren > 1945-1946 ? Louise Bogan > 1946-1947 ? Karl Shapiro > 1947-1948 ? Robert Lowell > 1948-1949 ? Leonie Adams > 1949-1950 ? Elizabeth Bishop > 1950 - 1952 ? Conrad Aiken > 1952 ? William Carlos Williams > 1956-1958 ? Randall Jarrell > 1958-1959 ? Robert Frost > 1959-1961 ? Richard Eberhart > 1961-1963 ? Louis Untermeyer > 1963-1964 ? Howard Nemerov > 1964-1965 ? Reed Whittemore > 1965-1966 ? Stephen Spender > 1966-1968 ? James Dickey > 1968-1970 ? William Jay Smith > 1970-1971 ? William Stafford > 1971-1973 ? Josephine Jacobsen > 1973-1974 ? Daniel Hoffman > 1974-1976 ? Stanley Kunitz > 1976-1978 ? Robert Hayden > 1978-1980 ? William Meredith > 1981-1982 ? Maxine Kumin > 1982-1984 ? Anthony Hecht > 1984-1985 ? Robert Fitzgerald > 1984-1985 ? Reed Whittemore > 1985-1986 ? Gwendolyn Brooks > 1986-1987 ? Robert Penn Warren > 1987-1988 ? Richard Wilbur > 1988-1990 ? Howard Nemerov > 1990-1991 ? Mark Strand > 1991-1992 ? Joseph Brodsky > 1992-1993 ? Mona Van Duyn > 1993-1995 ? Rita Dove > 1995-1997 ? Robert Hass > 1997-2000 ? Robert Pinsky > 1999-2000 ? Special Bicentennial Consultants, 1999-2000: Rita Dove, > Louise Gl?ck, and W.S. Merwin > 2000-2001 ? Stanley Kunitz > 2001-2003 ? Billy Collins > 2003-2004 ? Louise Gl?ck > 2004-2006 ? Ted Kooser > 2006-2007 Donald Hall > 2007-8 Charles Simic > 2008-- Kay Ryan > > > ======================================== > David Graham > grahamd@ripon.edu > > Home Page: > http://web.mac.com/drjazz > > Poetry Library: > http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html > ========================================== > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080720/02642be2/attachment.html From editor at fulcrumpoetry.com Sun Jul 20 12:17:13 2008 From: editor at fulcrumpoetry.com (Fulcrum Annual) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:28 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] unpublished Beckett, Frost, Paz, Seferis, Ricks, Perloff, Weinberger, Quevedo... Message-ID: FULCRUM: An Annual of Poetry and Aesthetics, #6 (730 pages) features uncollected Samuel Beckett; unpublished Robert Frost and Octavio Paz; essays by Christopher Ricks, Marjorie Perloff, Eliot Weinberger and many others; a feature on "Poetry and Myth"; a debate between poets John Kinsella and Rosanna Warren; translations of Seferis, Vian, Quevedo; and a great deal more. Most readers of Samuel Beckett are well acquainted with his plays and prose, but few are aware that Becket was a considerable, stunningly original poet. The special feature (185 pages) on "Samuel Beckett as Poet," edited by Philip Nikolayev in the current FULCRUM #6, presents Beckett's neglected masterpiece, "Ceiling," drawings of Beckett from life by Avigdor Arikha, and essays by Christopher Ricks, Marjorie Perloff, Eliot Weinberger, Anne Atik, S. E. Gontarski, Jean-Michel Rabat?, Simon Critchley, Chris Ackerley, Se?n Lawlor, David Wheatley, Mark Nixon, Philip Nikolayev, Daniel Albright, and a previously unpublished conversation between Octavio Paz and Eliot Weinberger on Beckett's English translation of An Anthology of Mexican Poetry. A few of the essays quote extensively from Beckett's unpublished correspondence and manuscripts. FULCRUM # 6 also presents previously unpublished lectures by Robert Frost ("The Claims of Poetry," "The Most Dangerous Phrase in America," and "The Natural and Supernatural Bounds of Science"), transcribed with annotation and commentary by Frost scholar James Sitar. The special "Poetry and Myth" section, edited by Cliff Forshaw and David Kennedy, presents a variety of essays and poems on the subject. And there is a great deal more outstanding poetry and criticism in the issue! "FULCRUM has in only a few years established itself as a must-read journal, a unique annual of literary and intellectual substance positioned on the cutting edge of culture."--Billy Collins "FULCRUM serves as a primary resource for anyone interested in diverse poetic practices not only from these States, but also from around our trembling globe."--Michael Palmer FULCRUM #6 is 730 pages long and offered at an artificially low price. Please visit http://fulcrumpoetry.com for more information or to acquire a copy. Please forward this message as appropriate. From amyhappens at yahoo.com Sun Jul 20 13:29:08 2008 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:28 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Journalist - Poets In-Reply-To: <7db1d01b0807200554n76d54384meff9ffc946a6446e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <246414.99549.qm@web83314.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Does anyone know of any journalists who are also poets? Or poets who happen to be journalists? Thanks! Amy _______ Recent http://www.tarpaulinsky.com/Reviews/kiss-me.html http://jacketmagazine.com/34/dickow-king.shtml Alias http://www.amyking.org Your Suggestions http://amyking.wordpress.com/2008/06/12/poetry-exercises-wanted/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080720/08c5d793/attachment.html From browning at splitthisrock.org Sun Jul 20 13:37:00 2008 From: browning at splitthisrock.org (browning) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:28 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Journalist - Poets In-Reply-To: <246414.99549.qm@web83314.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <004101c8ea8f$37884700$4001a8c0@SBLAPTOP> Esther Iverem, Living in Babylon, cultural and political journalist and editor of www.SeeingBlack.com ** Sarah Browning Co-Director Split This Rock Poetry Festival c/o Institute for Policy Studies 1112 16th Street, NW, Suite 600 Washington, DC 20036 browning@splitthisrock.org www.splitthisrock.org 202-787-5210 _____ From: new-poetry-bounces@wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto:new-poetry-bounces@wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of amy king Sent: Sunday, July 20, 2008 1:29 PM To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &,Views Subject: [New-Poetry] Journalist - Poets Does anyone know of any journalists who are also poets? Or poets who happen to be journalists? Thanks! Amy _______ Recent http://www.tarpaulinsky.com/Reviews/kiss-me.html http://jacketmagazine.com/34/dickow-king.shtml Alias http://www.amyking.org Your Suggestions http://amyking.wordpress.com/2008/06/12/poetry-exercises-wanted/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080720/360495a5/attachment.html From grahamd at ripon.edu Sun Jul 20 13:42:47 2008 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:28 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Journalist - Poets In-Reply-To: <246414.99549.qm@web83314.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: <246414.99549.qm@web83314.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: David Tucker springs to mind--his book of poems Late for Work contains a # of poems about his occupation. I believe Stephen Dobyns put in some time as a reporter, too. Here's one of Tucker's: Today?s News A slow news day, but I did like the obit about the butcher who kept the same store for 50 years. People remembered when his street was sweetly roaring, aproned with flower stalls and fish stands. The stock market wandered, spooked by presidential winks, by micro-winds and the shadows of earnings. News was stationed around the horizon, ready as summer clouds to thunder-- but it moved off and we covered the committee meeting at the back of the state house, sat around on our desks then went home early. The birds were still singing, the sun just going down. Working these long hours you forget how beautiful the early evening can be, the big houses like ships turning into the night, their rooms piled high with silence. ?by David Tucker. Late for Work. Houghton Mifflin, 2006. ======================================== David Graham grahamd@ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.mac.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== On Jul 20, 2008, at 1:29 PM, amy king wrote: > Does anyone know of any journalists who are also poets? Or poets > who happen to be journalists? > > Thanks! > > Amy > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080720/8b45023f/attachment.html From letitia.trent at gmail.com Sun Jul 20 13:44:59 2008 From: letitia.trent at gmail.com (L Trent) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:29 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: New Issue of 21 Stars Review In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi all! The new issue of 21 Stars Review (http://www.sundress.net/21stars/) is up, with Anne Bogle as guest fiction editor, featuring the work of... Pranshu Arya Gary Beck Peter Charles Beth Coyote Erik Dickey Thomas Fink and Maya Diablo Mason Harry Johnson Mark Howard Jones Andrea Lewis Philip Lund Josh May Ashok Niyogi Ateet Tuli Laura Wetherington William Yazbec http://www.sundress.net/21stars > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080720/3d37e815/attachment.html From JforJames at aol.com Sun Jul 20 17:05:58 2008 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames@aol.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:29 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Invasive species: US Poetry Consultant/Poets Laureate Message-ID: In a message dated 7/20/2008 10:14:25 AM Eastern Daylight Time, grahamd@ripon.edu writes: 1965-1966 ? Stephen Spender This I just realized is oddity on the list of honorees. Spender spent a lot time over here teaching and doing reading tours, but is he only non-US citizen on the list? Simic is foreign-born but has spent many, many years here and I imagine he no longer hold Serbian citizenship. Finnegan **************Get fantasy football with free live scoring. Sign up for FanHouse Fantasy Football today. (http://www.fanhouse.com/fantasyaffair?ncid=aolspr00050000000020) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080720/9e380038/attachment.html From grahamd at ripon.edu Sun Jul 20 18:05:30 2008 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:29 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Invasive species: US Poetry Consultant/Poets Laureate In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5C8F1A43-D737-4568-9C9D-989154E1FD6F@ripon.edu> Did Brodsky ever become a US citizen? ======================================== David Graham grahamd@ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.mac.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== On Jul 20, 2008, at 5:05 PM, JforJames@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 7/20/2008 10:14:25 AM Eastern Daylight Time, > grahamd@ripon.edu writes: > 1965-1966 ? Stephen Spender > This I just realized is oddity on the list of honorees. Spender > spent a lot time over here teaching and doing reading tours, but is > he only non-US citizen on the list? Simic is foreign-born but has > spent many, many years here and I imagine he no longer hold Serbian > citizenship. > Finnegan > > > > Get fantasy football with free live scoring. Sign up for FanHouse > Fantasy Football today. > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080720/8f18a1a8/attachment.html From ralph at walleahpress.com.au Sun Jul 20 18:39:01 2008 From: ralph at walleahpress.com.au (ralph@walleahpress.com.au) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:29 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Journalist - Poets Message-ID: <61531.121.223.147.21.1216593541.squirrel@www.walleahpress.com.au> Australian Kenneth Slessor [1901-1971]: 'Five Bells', 'Beach Burial'... Ralph "Slessor's career as a poet ran in tandem with his life as a hard-working journalist. He seems to have been able to turn off the raucous babble of everyday Sydney, like a radio, and to produce the piercing, rinsed-clean order of words that characterises his best poetry." [Philip Mead (ed.), Kenneth Slessor: Critical Readings, UQP, 1997] From Opus40-01 at opus40.org Sun Jul 20 18:54:25 2008 From: Opus40-01 at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:29 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Journalist - Poets In-Reply-To: References: <246414.99549.qm@web83314.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4883C221.5050700@opus40.org> Matt Spireng, a very worthwhile poet and longtime reporter for our home town Kingston Daily Freeman: Snowy Owl by Matthew J. Spireng Even here, thousands of miles south of where it hatched, it adapts for a while, flashing at night from rooftop to steeple and frightening drunks who think an angel?s come to carry them home. Ledges are cleared of pigeons as it sates its hunger. A stray dog finds heaven in its bony cast. David Graham wrote: > David Tucker springs to mind--his book of poems /Late for > Work/ contains a # of poems about his occupation. I believe Stephen > Dobyns put in some time as a reporter, too. Here's one of Tucker's: > > *Today?s News* > > A slow news day, but I did like the obit about the butcher > who kept the same store for 50 years. People remembered > when his street was sweetly roaring, aproned > with flower stalls and fish stands. > The stock market wandered, spooked by presidential winks, > by micro-winds and the shadows of earnings. News was stationed > around the horizon, ready as summer clouds to thunder-- > but it moved off and we covered the committee meeting > at the back of the state house, sat around on our desks > then went home early. The birds were still singing, > the sun just going down. Working these long hours > you forget how beautiful the early evening can be, > the big houses like ships turning into the night, > their rooms piled high with silence. > > ?by David Tucker. /Late for Work/. Houghton Mifflin, 2006. > > ======================================== > David Graham > grahamd@ripon.edu > > Home Page: > http://web.mac.com/drjazz > > Poetry Library: > http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html > ========================================== > > > > > On Jul 20, 2008, at 1:29 PM, amy king wrote: > >> Does anyone know of any journalists who are also poets? Or poets who >> happen to be journalists? >> >> Thanks! >> >> Amy >> > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ The moral is this: in American verse, The better you are, the pay is worse. --Corey Ford From AlMaginnes at aol.com Sun Jul 20 19:03:24 2008 From: AlMaginnes at aol.com (AlMaginnes@aol.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:29 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Journalist - Poets Message-ID: Jmes Fenton, the British poet, has worked as a journalist. **************Get fantasy football with free live scoring. Sign up for FanHouse Fantasy Football today. (http://www.fanhouse.com/fantasyaffair?ncid=aolspr00050000000020) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080720/373706cf/attachment.html From JforJames at aol.com Sun Jul 20 20:00:29 2008 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames@aol.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:29 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Invasive species: US Poetry Consultant/Poets Laureate Message-ID: In a message dated 7/20/2008 6:06:06 PM Eastern Daylight Time, grahamd@ripon.edu writes: Did Brodsky ever become a US citizen? David, I don't know. My guess is he did. His situation was more like Simic. He immigrated here during the Cold War and stayed on. When I was living in Northampton MA he was a professor at Mt. Holyoke College and I know he'd been in states for years. He died (youngish, of heat failure, in his 50s) and was still at Mt. Holyoke. Brodsky would arrange for poets like Walcott and Heaney to come little Mt. Holyoke to read. I don't know the timeline, and if it coincided with his being Laureate, but like some of our activist Laureates of late, he initiated a project to purchase poetry anthologies and have them placed in hotel rooms witht the Gideon Bible. It's said, to this day, that many modern Willy Loman's can quote long passages of 'Prufrock' and 'Avenue Bearing the Initial of Christ into the New World'. Finnegan **************Get fantasy football with free live scoring. Sign up for FanHouse Fantasy Football today. (http://www.fanhouse.com/fantasyaffair?ncid=aolspr00050000000020) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080720/943fd434/attachment.html From JforJames at aol.com Sun Jul 20 20:12:47 2008 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames@aol.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:29 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] US Poets Laureate by gender Message-ID: In a message dated 7/20/2008 10:59:43 AM Eastern Daylight Time, lsgrimes@stonegulch.com writes: The politics of race, gender, class is distracting: the only thing that matters in all areas is the quality of the work and character. In MLK's stance, it is the "content of character," not "color [gender, class] of the skin," by which any candidate for any position should be judged. It would be nice to tihink that only quality matters. Quality, in the arts as in other areas, is based on standards promulgated and defined by the dominant group. History bears out that women and persons of color were either overlooked or they never got to help shape the aesthetics by which their work would be judged. I'm surely not saying anything new. So I do think it's odd, that since the 1980s (almost 30 years now), there hasn't been a better gender balance among those given the Poetry Consultant/Poet Laureate award. Finnegan **************Get fantasy football with free live scoring. Sign up for FanHouse Fantasy Football today. (http://www.fanhouse.com/fantasyaffair?ncid=aolspr00050000000020) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080720/50e7f5d3/attachment.html From JforJames at aol.com Sun Jul 20 20:22:17 2008 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames@aol.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:29 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Journalist - Poets Message-ID: Patricia Smith wrote for the Boston Globe...but was ousted when the line between fiction and journalism was crossed. Finnegan **************Get fantasy football with free live scoring. Sign up for FanHouse Fantasy Football today. (http://www.fanhouse.com/fantasyaffair?ncid=aolspr00050000000020) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080720/24000a91/attachment.html From oedipa at gmail.com Sun Jul 20 20:26:28 2008 From: oedipa at gmail.com (oedipa@gmail.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:29 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Invasive species: US Poetry Consultant/Poets Laureate In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <43703117-1216599981-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1173989119-@bxe163.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> I currently live in NoHo. Are you a UMass person at all? That's where I'm finishing up my MFA. Weird place, NoHo. Karen Windus Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T -----Original Message----- From: JforJames@aol.com Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2008 20:00:29 To: Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Invasive species: US Poetry Consultant/Poets Laureate _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From JforJames at aol.com Sun Jul 20 21:13:52 2008 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames@aol.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:29 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Wm. Logan's Mistakes Message-ID: In a message dated 7/18/2008 4:04:49 PM Eastern Daylight Time, grahamd@ripon.edu writes: That may be so, but let's all try to answer the question: *can* we think of a worse title for a book of poems? One that was actually published, that is. I used to think that James Tate's *The Oblivion Ha-Ha* was among the dorkiest titles, but it's sort of grown on me. . . . -- I thought David's query would dredge up a whole host of howler titles. I guess not. Has Springchurch Book Co. gone out of business? I decided to look thru one of their catalogs and see what made me crinkle my brow:.. Springing: New & Selected Poems, by Mary Ponsot (is it a gerund or present participle?...either way it's inert) Of Thee I Sing, by Tim Liu (run, run away now) On the Ground, by Fanny Howe (there's no there there) Eve's Strip Tease, by Julie Kasdorf (I must be like Billy Collins, buy my book) Winter Morning Walks, by Ted Kooser (it sounds slow and boring, please let me stay behind) It just goes on like that. When was it that poetry collections took on specific titles, something other than 'Poems by So&So'? I'm thinking that the advent of Madison Ave adverstising techniques brought 'unique' and 'clever' titles into publishing. From there, 'the blurb' ensued. Finnegan **************Get fantasy football with free live scoring. Sign up for FanHouse Fantasy Football today. (http://www.fanhouse.com/fantasyaffair?ncid=aolspr00050000000020) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080720/54e8373d/attachment.html From oedipa at gmail.com Sun Jul 20 21:24:44 2008 From: oedipa at gmail.com (oedipa@gmail.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:29 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Wm. Logan's Mistakes In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <309699023-1216603477-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1024818106-@bxe163.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> I've always hated Mary Oliver's "why I rise early" or whatever it is. K Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T -----Original Message----- From: JforJames@aol.com Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2008 21:13:52 To: Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Re: Wm. Logan's Mistakes _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From millb at aol.com Sun Jul 20 21:54:51 2008 From: millb at aol.com (millb@aol.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:29 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Invasive species: US Poetry Consultant/Poets Laureate In-Reply-To: <43703117-1216599981-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1173989119-@bxe163.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> References: <43703117-1216599981-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1173989119-@bxe163.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Message-ID: <8CAB8EBE5C24C9A-4E4-99F@webmail-nd09.sysops.aol.com> I live near NoHo. . . Cheers, Mill Http://www.MillicentBorgesAccardi.com -----Original Message----- From: oedipa@gmail.com Sent: Sun, 20 Jul 2008 5:26 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Invasive species: US Poetry Consultant/Poets Laureate I currently live in NoHo. Are you a UMass person at all? That's where I'm finishing up my MFA. Weird place, NoHo. Karen Windus Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T -----Original Message----- From: JforJames@aol.com Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2008 20:00:29 To: Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Invasive species: US Poetry Consultant/Poets Laureate _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080720/b4c08132/attachment.html From JforJames at aol.com Sun Jul 20 22:14:43 2008 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames@aol.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:29 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Pessoa and me Message-ID: _http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/15/arts/design/15abroad.html?_r=1&pagewanted=a ll&oref=slogin_ (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/15/arts/design/15abroad.html?_r=1&pagewanted=all&oref=slogin) Portugal Holds on to Words Few Can Grasp By MICHAEL KIMMELMAN Published: July 15, 2008 LISBON ? The latest brouhaha involving cultural property is unfolding here ? and not, for a change, over stolen vases or precious war booty, but a poet? s correspondence. As usual, it?s a window onto a nation?s character. The elderly heirs of Fernando Pessoa, the exalted Portuguese writer, plan this fall to auction Pessoa?s correspondence with Aleister Crowley, the early-20th-century British mystic, mountaineer, writer and practitioner of black magic. Portugal?s culture minister is among those who have shown distress in recent days about the letters? leaving the country. **************Get fantasy football with free live scoring. Sign up for FanHouse Fantasy Football today. (http://www.fanhouse.com/fantasyaffair?ncid=aolspr00050000000020) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080720/2c6c28ff/attachment.html From Rsgwynn1 at cs.com Sun Jul 20 22:33:01 2008 From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com (Rsgwynn1@cs.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:30 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Invasive species: US Poetry Consultant/Poets Laureate Message-ID: http://books.google.com/books?hl=en&id=pn-WvrAwQxMC&dq=andrew+carroll& printsec=frontcover&source=web&ots=6wEgnP3J6l&sig=lvCMUf9oAYR0aizr_HuUtbGxCJU&sa=X& oi=book_result&resnum=6&ct=result#PPR15,M1 It's said, to this day, that many modern Willy Loman's can quote long passages of 'Prufrock' and 'Avenue Bearing the Initial of Christ into the New World'. Finnegan As far as I can tell from this, the anthology stops at Auden. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080720/8feccc5e/attachment.html From amyhappens at yahoo.com Mon Jul 21 08:14:16 2008 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:30 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Journalist-Poets In-Reply-To: <562F9B51-7CE1-4B02-A900-C6A5117FB183@gmail.com> Message-ID: <610000.81368.qm@web83302.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> I'm teaching an Intro to Journalism class for the first time, and after recently preparing and learning many tenets of journalism, as well as the basic structures for various articles, etc., I'm curious to see if and how this knowledge base/practice might affect a journalist's poetry. So now I have lots of journalist-poets' work to check out and analyze -- thanks to all for your recommendations! Journalist- Poets: Do you find that the formal structures/strictures of journalism influence your poems? Certainly content must? Thanks & best, Amy _______ Recent http://www.tarpaulinsky.com/Reviews/kiss-me.html http://jacketmagazine.com/34/dickow-king.shtml Alias http://www.amyking.org Your Suggestions http://amyking.wordpress.com/2008/06/12/poetry-exercises-wanted/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080721/5f276405/attachment.html From jbalizsprince at googlemail.com Mon Jul 21 09:07:15 2008 From: jbalizsprince at googlemail.com (Judy Prince) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:30 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Journalist-Poets In-Reply-To: <610000.81368.qm@web83302.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: <562F9B51-7CE1-4B02-A900-C6A5117FB183@gmail.com> <610000.81368.qm@web83302.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <7db1d01b0807210607u76b57dd8s8e53a511be79946a@mail.gmail.com> Add me to your list, Amy. Judy (Prince) 2008/7/21 amy king : > I'm teaching an Intro to Journalism class for the first time, and after > recently preparing and learning many tenets of journalism, as well as the > basic structures for various articles, etc., I'm curious to see if and how > this knowledge base/practice might affect a journalist's poetry. So now I > have lots of journalist-poets' work to check out and analyze -- thanks to > all for your recommendations! > > Journalist- Poets: Do you find that the formal structures/strictures of > journalism influence your poems? Certainly content must? > > Thanks & best, > > Amy > > > _______ > > Recent > http://www.tarpaulinsky.com/Reviews/kiss-me.html > http://jacketmagazine.com/34/dickow-king.shtml > > Alias > http://www.amyking.org > > Your Suggestions > http://amyking.wordpress.com/2008/06/12/poetry-exercises-wanted/ > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080721/d4ca2e95/attachment.html From robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com Mon Jul 21 09:20:48 2008 From: robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com (Robin Hamilton) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:30 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Journalist-Poets References: <610000.81368.qm@web83302.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <00cd01c8eb34$9782af10$4101a8c0@CoreDuo> << Journalist- Poets: Do you find that the formal structures/strictures of journalism influence your poems? Certainly content must? Thanks & best, Amy >> If you put James Fenton beside don marquis as journalist-poets, one observation might be that journalists as poets tend to be drawn to what could technically be described as light verse. Which would also apply to Dorothy Parker, if we count her as a journalist. Robin Hamilton From Rsgwynn1 at cs.com Mon Jul 21 10:09:37 2008 From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com (Rsgwynn1@cs.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:30 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Journalists Message-ID: Belloc and Chesterton were both journalists, if they haven't already been mentioned. And Stephen Crane. Whitman, of course. And William Cullen Bryant ended up as a newspaper publisher. Stevens was a journalist briefly after college. Grantland Rice wrote some verse. Kipling. Parker, of course. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080721/eeb8f37f/attachment.html From almaginnes at aol.com Mon Jul 21 10:18:58 2008 From: almaginnes at aol.com (almaginnes@aol.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:30 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Journalists In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8CAB953D9E1A520-1168-24F4@webmail-dd06.sysops.aol.com> Yep, Crane and Whitman are exactly who come to mind when I think light verse... -----Original Message----- From: Rsgwynn1@cs.com To: new-poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Mon, 21 Jul 2008 10:09 am Subject: [New-Poetry] Journalists Belloc and Chesterton were both journalists, if they haven't already been mentioned. And Stephen Crane. Whitman, of course. And William Cullen Bryant ended up as a newspaper publisher. Stevens was a journalist briefly after college. Grantland Rice wrote some verse. Kipling. Parker, of course. _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080721/a54bdee7/attachment.html From Rsgwynn1 at cs.com Mon Jul 21 10:21:28 2008 From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com (Rsgwynn1@cs.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:30 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Journalists Message-ID: In a message dated 7/21/2008 9:19:47 AM Central Daylight Time, almaginnes@aol.com writes: > > > Yep, Crane and Whitman are exactly who come to mind when I think light > verse... > I dunno. Crane's pretty funny, in a Beckett kind of way. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080721/aa8d1b9f/attachment.html From jforjames at aol.com Mon Jul 21 15:14:55 2008 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames@aol.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:30 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: Q&A with Poet Laureate Kay Ryan and New Summer Reads! In-Reply-To: <21378387.1265221216656330128.JavaMail.root@ptmail1.pt.local> References: <21378387.1265221216656330128.JavaMail.root@ptmail1.pt.local> Message-ID: <8CAB97D31DAC934-1258-1896@webmail-md03.sysops.aol.com> -----Original Message----- From: 92nd Street Y Literary Reading & Writing Workshops <92y@92y.pmailus.com> To: jforjames@aol.com Sent: Mon, 21 Jul 2008 12:05 pm Subject: Q&A with Poet Laureate Kay Ryan and New Summer Reads! Sent by: 92nd Street Y Reply to the sender Pick up a book by one of our upcoming 08/09 authors! Q&A with Poet Laureate Kay Ryan Summer Reads: The Literary Biography: Wineapple, Rowley and Stape Become a Poetry Center Member Today! 08/09 Season Memberships Memberships for our 70th anniversary season are now available. Become a Member Now Check out Podium, the Unterberg Poetry Center's online literary magazine. Read student work and author interviews, listen to podcasts, watch video clips and more. Q&A with Poet Laureate Kay Ryan Poet Kay Ryan, who was named Poet Laureate last Thursday, will return to the Poetry Center to host this season?s The Tenth Muse on Tuesday, February 3, at 8:15pm. The 92nd Street Y Unterberg Poetry Center?s Tenth Muse series began in April of 1989;?on more than?twenty evenings since then, a distinguished poet has presented readings by three poets at different stages in their careers. Over the years, Tenth Muse curators have included such celebrated poets as?Lucille Clifton, Billy Collins, Robert Creeley, Jorie Graham and Charles20Wright. The Tenth Muse series has provided a forum for the voices of?Charles Bernstein, Anne Carson,?Cornelius Eady,?Marie Howe and Susan Wheeler, among many others. Ms. Ryan?will present readings by Sarah Lindsay, who has published three books of poetry, including Twigs and Knucklebones; Kevin McFadden, whose first collection, Hardscrabble, was recently awarded the 2008 Fellowship of Southern Writers? New Writing Award for Poetry; and Atsuro Riley, whose first book is forthcoming. We recently had a chance to ask Kay Ryan a few questions about her own work. Where do you typically find the germ for a poem? The world doesn?t fit me right, so now and then I have to push a new bulge into it or tighten it up someplace. I do this with poems, which can actually create or absorb space. You are perhaps best known for compact, decisive lyrics. What are your thoughts about longer poems and sequences? Actually I?m in the process of writing a long poem, or a sequence; I don?t distinguish between the two. It will be made up of all my short poems.? Some of your poems are quite funny. How, if at all, do you think about your audience?s potential reaction when you write a poem? When one is writing a poem it isn?t the kind of condition in which it?s possible to think about an "audience?s potential reaction.? Later one does, of course, and one thinks, ?That?s so funny; I wonder if anyone else will think so?" What advic e would you give to a young writer seeking to establish herself as a poet? I would advise the young writer to get enough education so that she can secure a job that pays enough so that she only ever has to work part time if she?s careful with money.??? Purchase a season membership today for guaranteed seating at The Tenth Muse, hosted by Kay Ryan, and all Poetry Center Main Reading Series events. Become a Member Now Summer Reads: The Literary Biography: Wineapple, Rowley and Stape This edition?s list recommends books by authors who will be appearing in our Biographers & Brunch series, held on Sunday mornings in the 92nd Street Y?s Weill Art Gallery. These talks are followed by a delicious buffet brunch and an opportunity for informal conversation with the speaker and fellow audience members. ? Brenda Wineapple is the author of several biographies of 19th and early-20th century American writers, including Nathaniel Hawthorne, Gertrude Stein and Janet Flanner. Her most recent work, White Heat: The Friendship of Emily Dickinson and Thomas Wentworth Higginson, chronicles the correspondence between the poet and her literary mentor. Billy Collins praises the work for its sensitive and compelling treatment of Emily Dickinson: ?No book I know brings us deeper into the inner chambers of this poet?s private life.? Brenda Wineapple will speak at the 92nd Street Y on Sunday, October 26, at 11am.? Hazel Rowley's Richard Wright: The Life and Times will be published in paperback this year in honor of the centenary of Mr. Wright?s birth. According to scholar and biographer Arnold Rampersad, Ms. Rowley?s treatment of the novelist is ?tirelessly, imaginatively researched and elegantly written....The result is a portrait of uncommon penetration and skill.? Hazel Rowley, who is currently researching Franklin and Eleanor Roosevelt, will speak about Richard Wright at the 92nd Street Y on Sunday, December 14, at 11am.? John Stape, one of the foremost scholars of Joseph Conrad, will speak at the 92nd Y on Sunday, April 5, at 11am.? In addition to editing The Cambridge Companion to Joseph Conrad and co-editing The Collected Letters of Joseph Conrad, vols. 1-9, Mr. Stape has written a biography of the novelist, due out in paperback this summer.? In a review written for The New Republic, William Deresiewicz praised The Several Lives of Joseph Conrad as having been ?written with wit and bounce, and with the kind of ironic worldliness that would seem to be a prerequisite for a biographer but which years of mole-work in research libraries are not inclined to foster.???? Learn More Become a Poetry Center Member Today! Special events include A Celebration of Maurice Sendak with Tony Kushner, rescheduled as our season opener on September 15; Gogol at 200, with Ken Kalfus, Gary Saul Morson, Gary Shteyn gart and Lara Vapnyar; The Tenth Muse with Kay Ryan; The Critic?s Voice I: Daniel Mendelsohn on Cavafy; and The Critic?s Voice II: David Grossman on Bruno Schulz.? This season's Main Reading Series will feature some of the finest authors writing today: Marilynne Robinson, John Ashbery, Toni Morrison, W.S. Merwin, Charles Wright, Lucille Clifton, Amitav Ghosh, Jamaica Kincaid, Charles Simic, Isabel Allende, Breyten Breytenbach, Jayne Anne Phillips, T.C. Boyle and Richard Wilbur, to name just a few. Writers making their debuts at the Unterberg Poetry Center include Junot D?az, Natasha Trethewey, Can Xue, Barry Unsworth, Julia Hartwig and Rae Armantrout. The complete lineup is now viewable online. Memberships for the 2008-2009 Season are available at $250 for single membership and $440 for couples. Benefits include: ? Free admission plus Priority Seating at all Main Reading Series events (members are admitted 15 minutes before ticket-holders; all seats are unreserved) ? One discounted $10 companion ticket to a Main Reading Series event (subject to availability) ? 15% discount on subscriptions or single tickets to the Biographers & Brunch and Critics & Brunch Sunday lecture series, as well as to Afternoon Night Table and the new Children's Readings Series ? Free membership, with borrowing privileges, to the 92nd Street Y Buttenwieser Library, including access to archival recordings of Poetry Center programs from 1949 to the present.?? Please join us for what promises to be=2 0an exceptional season!? Become a Member Now Watch videos of 92nd Street Y events on YouTube and join us on Facebook! Every program at the 92nd Street Y is made possible by charitable donations from individuals like you. DONATE NOW. Order Online and Save 50% on All Service Fees! 92nd Street Y Lexington Avenue at 92nd Street, 212.415.5500 www.92Y.org All programs are subject to change. You can update your eNews preferences?any time?by visiting www.92Y.org/myprofile This e-mail was sent from 92nd Street Y Immediate removal with PatronMail? SecureUnsubscribe. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080721/6dd93e64/attachment.html From jforjames at aol.com Mon Jul 21 15:21:27 2008 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames@aol.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:30 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Invasive species: US Poetry Consultant/Poets Laureate In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8CAB97E1B852792-1258-1913@webmail-md03.sysops.aol.com> The original anthologies,?seeded in hotel rooms,?were donated, and according to this article only 6 poets were included... http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9F03E7DD103DF936A25750C0A962958260 Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: Rsgwynn1@cs.com To: new-poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Sun, 20 Jul 2008 10:33 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Invasive species: US Poetry Consultant/Poets Laureate http://books.google.com/books?hl=en&id=pn-WvrAwQxMC&dq=andrew+carroll&printsec=frontcover&source=web&ots=6wEgnP3J6l&sig=lvCMUf9oAYR0aizr_HuUtbGxCJU&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=6&ct=result#PPR15,M1 It's said, to this day, that many modern Willy Loman's can quote long passages of 'Prufrock' and 'Avenue Bearing the Initial of Christ into the New World'. Finnegan As far as I can tell from this, the anthology stops at Auden. _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080721/1366f2e7/attachment.html From Rsgwynn1 at cs.com Mon Jul 21 15:59:02 2008 From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com (Rsgwynn1@cs.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:30 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Invasive species: US Poetry Consultant/Poets Laureate Message-ID: In a message dated 7/21/2008 2:22:14 PM Central Daylight Time, jforjames@aol.com writes: > > The original anthologies, seeded in hotel rooms, were donated, and according > to this article only 6 poets > were included... > > http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9F03E7DD103DF936A25750C0A962958260 > Finnegan That's the one that Joel Connaroe edited. Apparently Brodsky's own choices (lots more poets--101 poems) were published in a Dover Thrift edition after his death. Looks like everything in it was public domain except for Auden's "The Unknown Citizen," the last poem in it. The guy who established a project to assist Brodsky (Carrell?) also apparently got a lot of free individual collections from publishers that were distributed to airlines and hotels. Brodsky had a good idea, I think, but probably someone could have come up with a cheaper way of printing up the poems--some kind of inexpensive pamphlet. You look at how much throwaway paper is in most hotel rooms--HBO schedules, pizza menus, local events mags, etc--that poems in such a format could have been more widely distributed. Would people have read them? Maybe so. I expect few travelers open the Gideon bibles unless they're strapped for something to read. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080721/3b3b85ee/attachment.html From cervantes.james at gmail.com Mon Jul 21 16:16:06 2008 From: cervantes.james at gmail.com (James Cervantes) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:30 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Invasive species: US Poetry Consultant/Poets Laureate In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <648208b60807211316j333f4312h956ccdfb00041cac@mail.gmail.com> On Mon, Jul 21, 2008 at 2:59 PM, wrote: > In a message dated 7/21/2008 2:22:14 PM Central Daylight Time, > jforjames@aol.com writes: > > > The original anthologies, seeded in hotel rooms, were donated, and > according to this article only 6 poets > were included... > http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res= > 9F03E7DD103DF936A25750C0A962958260 > Finnegan > > > That's the one that Joel Connaroe edited. Apparently Brodsky's own choices > (lots more poets--101 poems) were published in a Dover Thrift edition after > his death. Looks like everything in it was public domain except for Auden's > "The Unknown Citizen," the last poem in it. The guy who established a > project to assist Brodsky (Carrell?) also apparently got a lot of free > individual collections from publishers that were distributed to airlines and > hotels. Brodsky had a good idea, I think, but probably someone could have > come up with a cheaper way of printing up the poems--some kind of > inexpensive pamphlet. You look at how much throwaway paper is in most hotel > rooms--HBO schedules, pizza menus, local events mags, etc--that poems in > such a format could have been more widely distributed. Would people have > read them? Maybe so. I expect few travelers open the Gideon bibles unless > they're strapped for something to read. Well, there are some ideas floating around (mostly in my head), such as "The Poetry Channel" on motel t.v.s, which would offer the whole range, from readings of Tennyson at 5 a.m. Sunday mornings to Poetry Lite read by returning students and accompanied by screen images of picturesque America, from MTV-style formats for performance poets to talk-show formats for academic poets, from late night resurrections of Erica Jong to Saturday morning poetry cartoons featuring Ashbery, from call-in talk shows with ultra-talk poets to Dr. Phil type shows for those-kinds-of-poets etc. Of course this is all still in the development phase. -- Jim ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning http://www.fieralingue.it/documenti/mr_bondo.pdf http://www.poetserv.org/jvc/home/index.html http://home.earthlink.net/~jvcervantes/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/12364573@N08/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080721/cfffeea5/attachment.html From halvard at earthlink.net Mon Jul 21 16:52:27 2008 From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:31 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Invasive species: US Poetry Consultant/Poets Laureate In-Reply-To: <648208b60807211316j333f4312h956ccdfb00041cac@mail.gmail.com> References: <648208b60807211316j333f4312h956ccdfb00041cac@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <9BE41D50-944A-4EB7-BFF5-DC00B28B2C27@earthlink.net> Don't forget one 24/7 channel devoted to a reading of Aram Saroyan's "Cricket." Hal "I always wanted to be a cosmologist but failed the physical." --Anon. Halvard Johnson ================ halvard@earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html On Jul 21, 2008, at 3:16 PM, James Cervantes wrote: > > > On Mon, Jul 21, 2008 at 2:59 PM, wrote: > In a message dated 7/21/2008 2:22:14 PM Central Daylight Time, jforjames@aol.com > writes: >> >> The original anthologies, seeded in hotel rooms, were donated, and >> according to this article only 6 poets >> were included... >> http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9F03E7DD103DF936A25750C0A962958260 >> Finnegan > > That's the one that Joel Connaroe edited. Apparently Brodsky's own > choices (lots more poets--101 poems) were published in a Dover > Thrift edition after his death. Looks like everything in it was > public domain except for Auden's "The Unknown Citizen," the last > poem in it. The guy who established a project to assist Brodsky > (Carrell?) also apparently got a lot of free individual collections > from publishers that were distributed to airlines and hotels. > Brodsky had a good idea, I think, but probably someone could have > come up with a cheaper way of printing up the poems--some kind of > inexpensive pamphlet. You look at how much throwaway paper is in > most hotel rooms--HBO schedules, pizza menus, local events mags, > etc--that poems in such a format could have been more widely > distributed. Would people have read them? Maybe so. I expect few > travelers open the Gideon bibles unless they're strapped for > something to read. > > Well, there are some ideas floating around (mostly in my head), such > as "The Poetry Channel" on motel t.v.s, which would offer the whole > range, from readings of Tennyson at 5 a.m. Sunday mornings to Poetry > Lite read by returning students and accompanied by screen images of > picturesque America, from MTV-style formats for performance poets to > talk-show formats for academic poets, from late night resurrections > of Erica Jong to Saturday morning poetry cartoons featuring Ashbery, > from call-in talk shows with ultra-talk poets to Dr. Phil type shows > for those-kinds-of-poets etc. Of course this is all still in the > development phase. > > -- Jim > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org > http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning > http://www.fieralingue.it/documenti/mr_bondo.pdf > http://www.poetserv.org/jvc/home/index.html > http://home.earthlink.net/~jvcervantes/ > http://www.flickr.com/photos/12364573@N08/ > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080721/ab05443f/attachment.html From millb at aol.com Mon Jul 21 17:06:49 2008 From: millb at aol.com (millb@aol.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:31 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetry in Spain In-Reply-To: <9BE41D50-944A-4EB7-BFF5-DC00B28B2C27@earthlink.net> References: <648208b60807211316j333f4312h956ccdfb00041cac@mail.gmail.com> <9BE41D50-944A-4EB7-BFF5-DC00B28B2C27@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <8CAB98CD35104DE-D40-44F8@webmail-ne21.sysops.aol.com> Greetings, It's still a month away, but I'm starting to plan for a residency?in Spain this Sept. ?Most of my time will be spent, of course, on my project, but I anticipate a weekend trip or maybe a bit of sight-seeing of the literary sort. I'll be at Valpariso in Moj?car, Almer?a I'd sure appreciate any recommendations--or contacts or readings, etc. Also appreciated would be reading suggestions to load on my Kindle. Cheers, Mill Http://www.MillicentBorgesAccardi.com -----Original Message----- From: Halvard Johnson Sent: Mon, 21 Jul 2008 1:52 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Invasive species: US Poetry Consultant/Poets Laureate Don't forget one 24/7 channel devoted to a reading of Aram Saroyan's "Cricket." Hal "I always wanted to be a cosmologist but failed the physical." --Anon. Halvard Johnson ================ halvard@earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html http://entropyandme.blogspot.com? http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html On Jul 21, 2008, at 3:16 PM, James Cervantes wrote: On Mon, Jul 21, 2008 at 2:59 PM, wrote: In a message dated 7/21/2008 2:22:14 PM Central Daylight Time, jforjames@aol.com writes: The original anthologies, seeded in hotel rooms, were donated, and according to this article only 6 poets were included... http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9F03E7DD103D F936A25750C0A962958260 Finnegan That's the one that Joel Connaroe edited.? Apparently Brodsky's own choices (lots more poets--101 poems) were published in a Dover Thrift edition after his death.? Looks like everything in it was public domain except for Auden's "The Unknown Citizen," the last poem in it. The guy who established a project to assist Brodsky (Carrell?) also apparently got a lot of free individual collections from publishers that were distributed to airlines and hotels.? Brodsky had a good idea, I think, but probably someone could have come up with a cheaper way of printing up the poems--some kind of inexpensive pamphlet.? You look at how much throwaway paper is in most hotel rooms--HBO schedules, pizza menus, local events mags, etc--that poems in such a format could have been more widely distributed.? Would people have read them?? Maybe so.? I expect few travelers open the Gideon bibles unless they're strapped for something to read.? Well, there are some ideas floating around (mostly in my head), such as "The Poetry Channel" on motel t.v.s, which would offer the whole range, from readings of Tennyson at 5 a.m. Sunday mornings to Poetry Lite read by returning students and accompanied by screen images of picturesque America, from MTV-style formats for performance poets to talk-show formats for academic poets, from late night resurrections of Erica Jong to Saturday morning poetry cartoons featuring Ashbery, from call-in talk shows with ultra-talk poets to Dr. Phil type shows fo r those-kinds-of-poets etc. ?Of course this is all still in the development phase. -- Jim ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning http://www.fieralingue.it/documenti/mr_bondo.pdf http://www.poetserv.org/jvc/home/index.html http://home.earthlink.net/~jvcervantes/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/12364573@N08/ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry = _______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080721/416976bf/attachment.html From anny.ballardini at tin.it Mon Jul 21 18:03:53 2008 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:31 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] from San Miguel de Allende, Mexico Message-ID: <49893F9D954D4D52872C266E08B7B29A@AnnyPC> dear New Poetry et Jforjames I've made it, a 24h trip back to La Bella Italia... and with my MFA plus six extra credits. I also had time to take a heap of pics, and to meet _my greatest honor_ Lynda Schor, Halvard Johnson, Ellie and James Cervantes, all this in San Miguel! And much more, here you go: http://www.flickr.com/photos/52947935@N00/ I might on a rainy day add some titles to the pics, but I am sure you will recognize many, till soon, Anny the proud MFA Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080722/1bbfec81/attachment.html From jforjames at aol.com Mon Jul 21 18:42:22 2008 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames@aol.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:31 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] New SPD site is Live In-Reply-To: <6a7634b863c2adea240a0d2ebc706ae7@lists.spdbooks.org> References: <6a7634b863c2adea240a0d2ebc706ae7@lists.spdbooks.org> Message-ID: <8CAB99A2CB6E483-17CC-1253@MBLK-M11.sysops.aol.com> http://www.spdbooks.org/details.asp?BookID=9780965523943 See new anthology of Cali prose poems and poetics related thereto, at the new-n-improved SPD site... -----Original Message----- From: brent@spdbooks.org To: jforjames@aol.com Sent: Mon, 21 Jul 2008 5:59 pm Subject: New SPD site is Live Dear SPD Publishers, Some of you may have already noticed that, on Wednesday, July 16, SPD launched a redesigned and much improved Web site. The new site is the result of almost a year of hard work, and so far the responses have been very positive. Please swing by and check it out, and help us spread the word: http://www.spdbooks.org Even more improvements to the site are coming soon. The current improvements, as well as many of the coming improvements, were largely funded by a grant from the James Irvine Foundation. We are deeply grateful to the Irvine Foundation for their support in this venture. If you have feedback on the new site, feel free to let me know! Sincerely, Brent Cunningham Operations Director Small Press Distribution 510-524-1668 x308 brent@spdbooks.org -- If you do not want to receive any more newsletters, http://lists.spdbooks.org/?p=unsubscribe&uid=5db2d46d754cee5d533757975a280d55 To update your preferences and to unsubscribe visit http://lists.spdbooks.org/?p=preferences&uid=5db2d46d754cee5d533757975a280d55 Forward a Message to Someone http://lists.spdbooks.org/?p=forward&uid=5db2d46d754cee5d533757975a280d55&mid=74 -- Powered by PHPlist, www.phplist.com -- -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080721/f9be4171/attachment.html From skip at louisiana.edu Mon Jul 21 20:41:40 2008 From: skip at louisiana.edu (Skip Fox) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:31 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] from San Miguel de Allende, Mexico In-Reply-To: <49893F9D954D4D52872C266E08B7B29A@AnnyPC> Message-ID: <5170D71359FC4D07B1F6AE8EC746D983@win.louisiana.edu> Congratulations. -----Original Message----- From: new-poetry-bounces@wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto:new-poetry-bounces@wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Anny Ballardini Sent: Monday, July 21, 2008 5:04 PM To: new Poetry Subject: [New-Poetry] from San Miguel de Allende, Mexico dear New Poetry et Jforjames I've made it, a 24h trip back to La Bella Italia... and with my MFA plus six extra credits. I also had time to take a heap of pics, and to meet _my greatest honor_ Lynda Schor, Halvard Johnson, Ellie and James Cervantes, all this in San Miguel! And much more, here you go: http://www.flickr.com/photos/52947935@N00/ I might on a rainy day add some titles to the pics, but I am sure you will recognize many, till soon, Anny the proud MFA Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080721/f34968a2/attachment.html From millb at aol.com Mon Jul 21 20:59:55 2008 From: millb at aol.com (millb@aol.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:31 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] from San Miguel de Allende, Mexico In-Reply-To: <5170D71359FC4D07B1F6AE8EC746D983@win.louisiana.edu> Message-ID: <8CAB9AD63813B5B-AF0-32D7@webmail-nf08.sim.aol.com> Congratulations too! Did you bring a group of MFA students to Mexico????Was it a workshop in San Miguel?? I think I must be out of the loop since I am not sure what the event is all about. Can you fill me in?? It looks like a fabulous time. Was it a reading? The photos are great, and I would love to see who folks are!!!? To match a few faces with their names. Cheers, Mill Http://www.MillicentBorgesAccardi.com -----Original Message----- From: Skip Fox Sent: Mon, 21 Jul 2008 5:41 pm Subject: RE: [New-Poetry] from San Miguel de Allende, Mexico Congratulations. ? -----Original Message----- From: new-poetry-bounces@wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto:new-poetry-bounces@wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Anny Ballardini Sent: Monday, July 21, 2008 5:04 PM To: new Poetry Subject: [New-Poetry] from San Miguel de Allende, Mexico ? dear New Poetry et Jforjames ? I've made it, a 24h trip back to La Bella Italia... and with my MFA plus six extra credits. I also had time to take a heap of pics, and to meet _my greatest honor_ Lynda Schor, Halvard Johnson, Ellie and James Cervantes, all this in San Miguel! And much more, ? here you go: ? http://www.flickr.com/photos/52947935@N00/ ? I might on a rainy day add some titles to the pics, but I am sure you will recognize many, till soon, ? Anny the proud MFA ? ? Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080721/336d6e32/attachment.html From poemlady at cox.net Mon Jul 21 20:57:57 2008 From: poemlady at cox.net (Audrey Friedman) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:31 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] from San Miguel de Allende, Mexico References: <5170D71359FC4D07B1F6AE8EC746D983@win.louisiana.edu> Message-ID: <000f01c8eb95$fb8bd980$6401a8c0@Zoom> Anny, a well-deserved congratulations on the MFA. I know first-hand what a commitment you've made. Giving myself this same opportunity was indeed life-altering in a most positive way! Best of luck. Audrey -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080721/12c61476/attachment.html From jforjames at aol.com Mon Jul 21 21:31:47 2008 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames@aol.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:31 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Invasive species: US Poetry Consultant/Poets Laureate In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8CAB9B1D746E830-F08-30C5@WEBMAIL-DF07.sysops.aol.com> I don't believe for a minute that their air-built?initiative had a widespread effect of increasing poetry readers...and yet it was one those 'guerrilla marketing' techniques that I have to admire. It was?odd and?clever at the same time. The anthology you edited wasn't out at the time, was it? It would have been a good pick for the project. Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: Rsgwynn1@cs.com To: new-poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Mon, 21 Jul 2008 3:59 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Invasive species: US Poetry Consultant/Poets Laureate In a message dated 7/21/2008 2:22:14 PM Central Daylight Time, jforjames@aol.com writes: The original anthologies, seeded in hotel rooms, were donated, and according to this article only 6 poets were included... http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9F03E7DD103DF936A25750C0A962958260 Finnegan That's the one that Joel Connaroe edited.? Apparently Brodsky's own choices (lots more poets--101 poems) were published in a Dover Thrift edition after his death.? Looks like everything in it was public domain except for Auden's "The Unknown Citizen," the last poem in it. The guy who established a project to assist Brodsky (Carrell?) also apparently got a lot of free individual collections from publishers that were distributed to airlines and hotels.? Brodsky had a good idea, I think, but probably someone could have come up with a cheaper way of printing up the poems--some kind of inexpensive pamphlet.? You look at how much throwaway paper is in most hotel rooms--HBO schedules, pizza menus, local events mags, etc--that poems in such a format could have been more widely distributed.? Would people have read them?? Maybe so.? I expect few travelers open the Gideon bibles unless they're strapped for something to read. _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080721/f940f04f/attachment.html From Rsgwynn1 at cs.com Mon Jul 21 22:45:47 2008 From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com (Rsgwynn1@cs.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:31 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Invasive species: US Poetry Consultant/Poets Laureate Message-ID: In a message dated 7/21/2008 8:32:36 PM Central Daylight Time, jforjames@aol.com writes: > The anthology you edited wasn't out at the time, was it? It would have been > a good pick for the project. > Finnegan > No, it wasn't. I could only wish, as it hasn't sold very well, alas. Still hasn't even paid off its permissions fees. Still, I think it's a fair and good anthology, which tries to represent the viable "schools" pretty well. Probably its fault was not limiting itself to a dozen or so "major" poets, but we didn't want to follow the lead of Poulin/Waters. We had a lot of poets, some with only two or one poems; most of those were the younger ones. My idea, probably a marketing mistake, was to focus on poems rather than on poets. Well, you never can tell, and I think the current taste in these things runs toward what Poulin/Waters did, trying to center on and identify a small number of important, canonical poets. Personally, I don't think this is the best way to give students the full range of contemporary American poetry and its various styles, but the market rules in cases like this. Anyone who's interested can view the table of contents here: http://www.pearsonhighered.com/educator/academic/product/0,,0321182820,00%2ben -USS_01DBC.html -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080721/162c29f6/attachment.html From anny.ballardini at tin.it Tue Jul 22 05:22:49 2008 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:31 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] from San Miguel de Allende, Mexico In-Reply-To: <5170D71359FC4D07B1F6AE8EC746D983@win.louisiana.edu> References: <5170D71359FC4D07B1F6AE8EC746D983@win.louisiana.edu> Message-ID: <6F5A5F32BDB34605AB631AAD60BEF5F8@AnnyPC> Thank you Skip, you are mentioned in the acknowledgements in my thesis. Thanks to the information you gave me I took the right exams. ----- Original Message ----- From: Skip Fox To: 'NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views' Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2008 2:41 AM Subject: RE: [New-Poetry] from San Miguel de Allende, Mexico Congratulations. -----Original Message----- From: new-poetry-bounces@wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto:new-poetry-bounces@wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Anny Ballardini Sent: Monday, July 21, 2008 5:04 PM To: new Poetry Subject: [New-Poetry] from San Miguel de Allende, Mexico dear New Poetry et Jforjames I've made it, a 24h trip back to La Bella Italia... and with my MFA plus six extra credits. I also had time to take a heap of pics, and to meet _my greatest honor_ Lynda Schor, Halvard Johnson, Ellie and James Cervantes, all this in San Miguel! And much more, here you go: http://www.flickr.com/photos/52947935@N00/ I might on a rainy day add some titles to the pics, but I am sure you will recognize many, till soon, Anny the proud MFA Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 270.5.4/1566 - Release Date: 7/22/2008 6:00 AM -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080722/97a89015/attachment.html From anny.ballardini at tin.it Tue Jul 22 05:29:08 2008 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:32 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] from San Miguel de Allende, Mexico In-Reply-To: <8CAB9AD63813B5B-AF0-32D7@webmail-nf08.sim.aol.com> References: <8CAB9AD63813B5B-AF0-32D7@webmail-nf08.sim.aol.com> Message-ID: <879DE1E9634744CEA7C43F7925956943@AnnyPC> Hi Mill, it is a low residency program promoted by UNO, University of New Orleans. You have to take at least two summer residencies to comply with the course of studies. I was in Brunnenburg, which was the very first contact I had with them, being Brunnenburg close to here, two years ago. I then went to Madrid, Spain. And finally this year I joined them in San Miguel de Allende. http://lowres.uno.edu/ and check this out, too: http://lowres.uno.edu/sanmiguel/ You should need further info, feel free to contact me, Anny ----- Original Message ----- From: millb@aol.com To: new-poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2008 2:59 AM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] from San Miguel de Allende, Mexico Congratulations too! Did you bring a group of MFA students to Mexico? Was it a workshop in San Miguel? I think I must be out of the loop since I am not sure what the event is all about. Can you fill me in? It looks like a fabulous time. Was it a reading? The photos are great, and I would love to see who folks are!!! To match a few faces with their names. Cheers, Mill Http://www.MillicentBorgesAccardi.com -----Original Message----- From: Skip Fox Sent: Mon, 21 Jul 2008 5:41 pm Subject: RE: [New-Poetry] from San Miguel de Allende, Mexico Congratulations. -----Original Message----- From: new-poetry-bounces@wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto:new-poetry-bounces@wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Anny Ballardini Sent: Monday, July 21, 2008 5:04 PM To: new Poetry Subject: [New-Poetry] from San Miguel de Allende, Mexico dear New Poetry et Jforjames I've made it, a 24h trip back to La Bella Italia... and with my MFA plus six extra credits. I also had time to take a heap of pics, and to meet _my greatest honor_ Lynda Schor, Halvard Johnson, Ellie and James Cervantes, all this in San Miguel! And much more, here you go: http://www.flickr.com/photos/52947935@N00/ I might on a rainy day add some titles to the pics, but I am sure you will recognize many, till soon, Anny the proud MFA Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ The Famous, the Infamous, the Lame - in your browser. Get the TMZ Toolbar Now! ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 270.5.4/1566 - Release Date: 7/22/2008 6:00 AM -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080722/ed1909e1/attachment.html From anny.ballardini at tin.it Tue Jul 22 05:30:00 2008 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:32 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] from San Miguel de Allende, Mexico In-Reply-To: <000f01c8eb95$fb8bd980$6401a8c0@Zoom> References: <5170D71359FC4D07B1F6AE8EC746D983@win.louisiana.edu> <000f01c8eb95$fb8bd980$6401a8c0@Zoom> Message-ID: <58D7300544234D34AA4164B28E689C0D@AnnyPC> Thank you Audrey, and congratulations to you as well! Anny ----- Original Message ----- From: Audrey Friedman To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2008 2:57 AM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] from San Miguel de Allende, Mexico Anny, a well-deserved congratulations on the MFA. I know first-hand what a commitment you've made. Giving myself this same opportunity was indeed life-altering in a most positive way! Best of luck. Audrey ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 270.5.4/1566 - Release Date: 7/22/2008 6:00 AM -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080722/19a84777/attachment.html From jbalizsprince at googlemail.com Tue Jul 22 07:25:54 2008 From: jbalizsprince at googlemail.com (Judy Prince) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:32 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] from San Miguel de Allende, Mexico In-Reply-To: <6F5A5F32BDB34605AB631AAD60BEF5F8@AnnyPC> References: <5170D71359FC4D07B1F6AE8EC746D983@win.louisiana.edu> <6F5A5F32BDB34605AB631AAD60BEF5F8@AnnyPC> Message-ID: <7db1d01b0807220425o310c9ea2sdd87ea02769cdb88@mail.gmail.com> Congratulations, Anny, on your new MFA plus 6---and those beautiful photos you took! Wonderful architectural as well as the people-at-the-readings ones. My special favourite: screen 95, photo 0112, gilt-framed mirror on grey stone w white plaster wall, pink upholstered settee. Best, Judy 2008/7/22 Anny Ballardini : > Thank you Skip, you are mentioned in the acknowledgements in my thesis. > Thanks to the information you gave me I took the right exams. > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* Skip Fox > *To:* 'NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views' > *Sent:* Tuesday, July 22, 2008 2:41 AM > *Subject:* RE: [New-Poetry] from San Miguel de Allende, Mexico > > Congratulations. > > > > -----Original Message----- > *From:* new-poetry-bounces@wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto: > new-poetry-bounces@wiz.cath.vt.edu] *On Behalf Of *Anny Ballardini > *Sent:* Monday, July 21, 2008 5:04 PM > *To:* new Poetry > *Subject:* [New-Poetry] from San Miguel de Allende, Mexico > > > > dear New Poetry et Jforjames > > > > I've made it, a 24h trip back to *La Bella Italia*... and with my MFA plus > six extra credits. I also had time to take a heap of pics, and to meet _my > greatest honor_ Lynda Schor, Halvard Johnson, Ellie and James Cervantes, all > this in San Miguel! And much more, > > > > here you go: > > > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/52947935@N00/ > > > > I might on a rainy day add some titles to the pics, but I am sure you will > recognize many, > > till soon, > > > > Anny the proud MFA > > > > > > Anny Ballardini > http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ > http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome > http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html > I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing > star! > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > ------------------------------ > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG. > Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 270.5.4/1566 - Release Date: 7/22/2008 > 6:00 AM > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080722/00687726/attachment.html From poemlady at cox.net Tue Jul 22 07:49:54 2008 From: poemlady at cox.net (Audrey Friedman) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:32 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] from San Miguel de Allende, Mexico References: <5170D71359FC4D07B1F6AE8EC746D983@win.louisiana.edu><000f01c8eb95$fb8bd980$6401a8c0@Zoom> <58D7300544234D34AA4164B28E689C0D@AnnyPC> Message-ID: <002e01c8ebf1$0f13a310$6401a8c0@Zoom> My degree was received from Vermont College in '05, but I thank you for the congrats:) Audrey ----- Original Message ----- From: Anny Ballardini To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2008 5:30 AM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] from San Miguel de Allende, Mexico Thank you Audrey, and congratulations to you as well! Anny ----- Original Message ----- From: Audrey Friedman To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2008 2:57 AM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] from San Miguel de Allende, Mexico Anny, a well-deserved congratulations on the MFA. I know first-hand what a commitment you've made. Giving myself this same opportunity was indeed life-altering in a most positive way! Best of luck. Audrey ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 270.5.4/1566 - Release Date: 7/22/2008 6:00 AM ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080722/bc02fbdd/attachment.html From anny.ballardini at tin.it Tue Jul 22 13:24:48 2008 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:32 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] from San Miguel de Allende, Mexico In-Reply-To: <7db1d01b0807220425o310c9ea2sdd87ea02769cdb88@mail.gmail.com> References: <5170D71359FC4D07B1F6AE8EC746D983@win.louisiana.edu><6F5A5F32BDB34605AB631AAD60BEF5F8@AnnyPC> <7db1d01b0807220425o310c9ea2sdd87ea02769cdb88@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Thanks Judy, I am the scared one in there... it was my first morning after a couple of hours of sleep and the trip to get there on my shoulders... ----- Original Message ----- From: Judy Prince To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &,Views Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2008 1:25 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] from San Miguel de Allende, Mexico Congratulations, Anny, on your new MFA plus 6---and those beautiful photos you took! Wonderful architectural as well as the people-at-the-readings ones. My special favourite: screen 95, photo 0112, gilt-framed mirror on grey stone w white plaster wall, pink upholstered settee. Best, Judy -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080722/7c714a95/attachment.html From jbalizsprince at googlemail.com Tue Jul 22 14:02:14 2008 From: jbalizsprince at googlemail.com (Judy Prince) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:32 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] from San Miguel de Allende, Mexico In-Reply-To: References: <5170D71359FC4D07B1F6AE8EC746D983@win.louisiana.edu> <6F5A5F32BDB34605AB631AAD60BEF5F8@AnnyPC> <7db1d01b0807220425o310c9ea2sdd87ea02769cdb88@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7db1d01b0807221102i6ec1532dr1be16a0ac789265a@mail.gmail.com> Honestly, Anny, I was flabbergasted by the consistent beauty and naturalness (people-wise) of those photos. Professional photogs say that the difference between a professional and an amateur is the number of photos that a professional throws away. At the most, maybe 10 out of ALL of yours I might consider tossing. What a joy to see the small beautifully coloured buildings in the towns as well as the huge cathedral-like buildings, inside and out. I'm still wondering how you managed to get such perfect shots of the artifacts inside the museum. Did you carry a tripod and flash bar? How else could you get such illumination? At the very least, as if your photos as an entire group were an "interests" test (Meyers-Briggs?), I found that I most love interior design, having settled on ONE special favourite: #0112. What kind of building was it in? And what city? Your only error in judgment was that you didn't hand your camera to a friend and ask her or him to photograph YOU! Best, Judy 2008/7/22 Anny Ballardini : > Thanks Judy, I am the scared one in there... it was my first morning > after a couple of hours of sleep and the trip to get there on my > shoulders... > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* Judy Prince > *To:* NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &,Views > *Sent:* Tuesday, July 22, 2008 1:25 PM > *Subject:* Re: [New-Poetry] from San Miguel de Allende, Mexico > > Congratulations, Anny, on your new MFA plus 6---and those beautiful photos > you took! Wonderful architectural as well as the people-at-the-readings > ones. My special favourite: screen 95, photo 0112, gilt-framed mirror on > grey stone w white plaster wall, pink upholstered settee. > Best, > > Judy > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080722/7b4e31f1/attachment.html From millb at aol.com Tue Jul 22 17:11:51 2008 From: millb at aol.com (millb@aol.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:32 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] from San Miguel de Allende, Mexico In-Reply-To: <879DE1E9634744CEA7C43F7925956943@AnnyPC> References: <8CAB9AD63813B5B-AF0-32D7@webmail-nf08.sim.aol.com> <879DE1E9634744CEA7C43F7925956943@AnnyPC> Message-ID: <8CABA56B1E43865-64C-506@mblk-d20.sysops.aol.com> Anny, Thanks for the info!? I did a graduate semester in Prague back in 1993 (not low residency), and, while it was through USC, not New Orleans, I knew that NO had a study abroad presence there as well.? Looks like yours was a great experience-- My husband did his MFA through a low residency visual arts study at Vermont and he got an amazing amount of work done. . . plus, the instructors he studied with were top notch. I'm off to Almeria, Spain myself in Sept. Cheers, Mill Http://www.MillicentBorgesAccardi.com Physical perfection is boring. A tarted?up old trollop is always way sexier. -Steven Wells, Philadelphia Weekly -----Original Message----- From: Anny Ballardini Sent: Tue, 22 Jul 2008 2:29 am Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] from San Miguel de Allende, Mexico Hi Mill, ? it is a low residency program promoted by UNO, University of New Orleans. You have to take at least two summer residencies to comply with the course of studies. I was in Brunnenburg, which was the very first contact I had with them, being Brunnenburg close to here, two years ago. I then went to Madrid, Spain. And finally this year I joined them in San Miguel de Allende. ? http://lowres.uno.edu/ ? and check this out, too: http://lowres.uno.edu/sanmiguel/ ? You should need further info, feel free to contact me, ? Anny ----- Original Message ----- From: millb@aol.com To: new-poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2008 2:59 AM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] from San Miguel de Allende, Mexico Congratulations too! Did you bring a group of MFA students to Mexico????Was it a workshop in San Miguel?? I think I must be out of the loop since I am not sure what the event is all about. Can you fill me in?? It looks like a fabulous time. Was it a reading? The photos are great, and I would love to see who folks are!!!? To match a few faces with their names. Cheers, Mill Http://www.MillicentBorgesAccardi.com -----Original Message----- From: Skip Fox Sent: Mon, 21 Jul 2008 5:41 pm Subject: RE: [New-Poetry] from San Miguel de Allende, Mexico Congratulations. ? -----Original Message----- From: new-poetry-bounces@wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto:new-poetry-bounces@wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Anny Ballardini Sent: Monday, July 21, 2008 5:04 PM To: new Poetry Subject: [New-Poetry] from San Miguel de Allende, Mexico ? dear New Poetry et Jforjames ? I've made it, a 24h trip back to La Bella Italia... and with my MFA plus six extra credits. I also had time to take a heap of pics, and to meet _my greatest honor_ Lynda Schor, Halvard Johnson, Ellie and James Cervantes, all this in San Miguel! And much more, ? here you go: ? http://www.flickr.com/photos/52947935@N00/ ? I might on a rainy day add some titles to the pics, but I am sure you will recognize many, till soon, =C 2 Anny the proud MFA ? ? Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! _______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry The Famous, the Infamous, the Lame - in your browser. Get the TMZ Toolbar Now! _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 270.5.4/1566 - Release Date: 7/22/2008 6:00 AM _______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080722/6992636a/attachment.html From jforjames at aol.com Tue Jul 22 18:48:06 2008 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames@aol.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:32 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Kay Ryan interview on NPR Message-ID: <8CABA6423F4F63D-1160-6CF@webmail-me02.sysops.aol.com> http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=92721707&ft=1&f=1008 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080722/0f12d224/attachment.html From jforjames at aol.com Tue Jul 22 19:18:29 2008 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames@aol.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:32 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] =?utf-8?q?The_Conservative_Attack_on_Modern_Poetry?= =?utf-8?b?LCAxOTQ14oCTMTk2MA==?= Message-ID: <8CABA68627E596F-1160-87F@webmail-me02.sysops.aol.com> http://bostonreview.net/BR33.4/bernstein.php Counter-Revolution of the Word:The Conservative Attack on Modern Poetry, 1945?1960 Alan Filreis University of North Carolina Press, $40 (cloth) ? Charles Bernstein ? Alan Filreis?s Counter-Revolution of the Word is less a work of literary interpretation than a penetrating historical and sociological study. It is comparable to now-classic books like Jed Rasula?s The American Poetry Wax Museum: Reality Effects, Alan Golding?s From Outlaw to Classic: Canons in American Poetry, Robert Von Hallberg?s American Poetry and Culture, 1945-1980, and Cary Nelson?s Repression and Recovery: Modern American Poetry and the Politics of Cultural Memory. Against the grain of received history, Filreis, a colleague of mine at the University of Pennsylvania, reveals the deep engagement of many politically progressive poets of the 1930s with modernist poetic innovation. (The converse is also true: in an earlier book Filreis reads the putatively conservative Wallace Stevens within the socio-cultural context of the ?30s.) He also tracks a number of ?30s poets, showing the dire effect of McCarthyite redbaiting on their careers. However, his principal focus is on the conflation of anticommunism with antimodernism in the immediate postwar period. Such a conflation might seem counterintuitive, since the left is often associated with populist styles that reject modernist difficulty, while radical modernism is often associated with an aesthetic at odds with explicit left political cont ent. But the toxic mix of what Filreis calls ?anticommunist antimodernism? is not only pervasive in the 1950s, but also provides an ideological foundation for the official verse culture of the 1970s onward. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080722/c76649b9/attachment.html From cervantes.james at gmail.com Tue Jul 22 19:38:18 2008 From: cervantes.james at gmail.com (James Cervantes) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:32 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] from San Miguel de Allende, Mexico In-Reply-To: <7db1d01b0807221102i6ec1532dr1be16a0ac789265a@mail.gmail.com> References: <5170D71359FC4D07B1F6AE8EC746D983@win.louisiana.edu> <6F5A5F32BDB34605AB631AAD60BEF5F8@AnnyPC> <7db1d01b0807220425o310c9ea2sdd87ea02769cdb88@mail.gmail.com> <7db1d01b0807221102i6ec1532dr1be16a0ac789265a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <648208b60807221638l7d11d20bhe005e2c768affb12@mail.gmail.com> On Tue, Jul 22, 2008 at 1:02 PM, Judy Prince wrote: > Honestly, Anny, I was flabbergasted by the consistent beauty and > naturalness (people-wise) of those photos. Professional photogs say that > the difference between a professional and an amateur is the number of photos > that a professional throws away. At the most, maybe 10 out of ALL of yours > I might consider tossing. What a joy to see the small beautifully coloured > buildings in the towns as well as the huge cathedral-like buildings, inside > and out. I'm still wondering how you managed to get such perfect shots of > the artifacts inside the museum. Did you carry a tripod and flash bar? How > else could you get such illumination? At the very least, as if your photos > as an entire group were an "interests" test (Meyers-Briggs?), I found that I > most love interior design, having settled on ONE special favourite: #0112. > What kind of building was it in? And what city? > Your only error in judgment was that you didn't hand your camera to a > friend and ask her or him to photograph YOU! > Actually, there's a photo of Anny at Dinty Moore's site: http://www.flickr.com/photos/dinty/ There's also one at my flickr site: link below -- Jim ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning http://www.fieralingue.it/documenti/mr_bondo.pdf http://www.poetserv.org/jvc/home/index.html http://home.earthlink.net/~jvcervantes/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/12364573@N08/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080722/a7554144/attachment.html From chris.lott at gmail.com Tue Jul 22 19:44:22 2008 From: chris.lott at gmail.com (Chris Lott) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:32 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] a dead ear for scansion Message-ID: <9b1b9dab0807221644m2df43b2bsb556b611d279bbd@mail.gmail.com> Any pointers to good resources on scansion? It seems so subjective, yet so many people agree on example that clearly I am missing something. I need to study more, if only to determine if I really do have a completely dead ear. I didn't pay enough attention in school, though I do remember being baffled even then with so many examples that it felt I could easily scan in various, contradictory ways. c -- Chris Lott From reneea at verizon.net Tue Jul 22 20:49:42 2008 From: reneea at verizon.net (Renee Ashley) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:33 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] a dead ear for scansion References: <9b1b9dab0807221644m2df43b2bsb556b611d279bbd@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <001101c8ec5d$fedeb120$0201a8c0@Barnette> Hi Chris, Derek Attridge's POETIC RHYTHM: AN INTRODUCTION really helped me. It's the first thing I ever read that pointed out it wasn't as black and white as my teachers had indicated... Renee ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris Lott" To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &, Views" Cc: "Cafe Blue" Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2008 6:44 PM Subject: [New-Poetry] a dead ear for scansion > Any pointers to good resources on scansion? It seems so subjective, > yet so many people agree on example that clearly I am missing > something. I need to study more, if only to determine if I really do > have a completely dead ear. > > I didn't pay enough attention in school, though I do remember being > baffled even then with so many examples that it felt I could easily > scan in various, contradictory ways. > > c > -- > Chris Lott > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > From Opus40-01 at opus40.org Tue Jul 22 20:04:15 2008 From: Opus40-01 at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:33 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] a dead ear for scansion In-Reply-To: <001101c8ec5d$fedeb120$0201a8c0@Barnette> References: <9b1b9dab0807221644m2df43b2bsb556b611d279bbd@mail.gmail.com> <001101c8ec5d$fedeb120$0201a8c0@Barnette> Message-ID: <4886757F.7090206@opus40.org> Is that on Jim's list? If not, it should be added. Renee Ashley wrote: > Hi Chris, > > Derek Attridge's POETIC RHYTHM: AN INTRODUCTION really helped me. > It's the first thing I ever read that pointed out it wasn't as black > and white as my teachers had indicated... > > Renee > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris Lott" > To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &, Views" > > Cc: "Cafe Blue" > Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2008 6:44 PM > Subject: [New-Poetry] a dead ear for scansion > > >> Any pointers to good resources on scansion? It seems so subjective, >> yet so many people agree on example that clearly I am missing >> something. I need to study more, if only to determine if I really do >> have a completely dead ear. >> >> I didn't pay enough attention in school, though I do remember being >> baffled even then with so many examples that it felt I could easily >> scan in various, contradictory ways. >> >> c >> -- >> Chris Lott >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ The moral is this: in American verse, The better you are, the pay is worse. --Corey Ford From AlMaginnes at aol.com Tue Jul 22 21:43:56 2008 From: AlMaginnes at aol.com (AlMaginnes@aol.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:33 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] a dead ear for scansion Message-ID: Paul Fussell's book, whose title escapes me just now. **************Get fantasy football with free live scoring. Sign up for FanHouse Fantasy Football today. (http://www.fanhouse.com/fantasyaffair?ncid=aolspr00050000000020) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080722/a2cf95a6/attachment.html From AlMaginnes at aol.com Tue Jul 22 21:45:56 2008 From: AlMaginnes at aol.com (AlMaginnes@aol.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:33 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] a dead ear for scansion Message-ID: Fussell's book is POETIC METER AND POETIC FORM. **************Get fantasy football with free live scoring. Sign up for FanHouse Fantasy Football today. (http://www.fanhouse.com/fantasyaffair?ncid=aolspr00050000000020) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080722/c68c238d/attachment.html From chris.lott at gmail.com Wed Jul 23 02:41:39 2008 From: chris.lott at gmail.com (Chris Lott) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:33 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] a dead ear for scansion In-Reply-To: <4886757F.7090206@opus40.org> References: <9b1b9dab0807221644m2df43b2bsb556b611d279bbd@mail.gmail.com> <001101c8ec5d$fedeb120$0201a8c0@Barnette> <4886757F.7090206@opus40.org> Message-ID: <9b1b9dab0807222341v318a2cal697c9ff0b661b56@mail.gmail.com> What is Jim's list? One title that won't help is Steele's _All the Fun's in How You Say a Thing_ which is what has lead me to this despairing state... c On Tue, Jul 22, 2008 at 16:04, TheOldMole wrote: > Is that on Jim's list? If not, it should be added. > > Renee Ashley wrote: >> >> Hi Chris, >> >> Derek Attridge's POETIC RHYTHM: AN INTRODUCTION really helped me. It's >> the first thing I ever read that pointed out it wasn't as black and white as >> my teachers had indicated... From Opus40-01 at opus40.org Wed Jul 23 06:15:33 2008 From: Opus40-01 at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:33 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] a dead ear for scansion In-Reply-To: <9b1b9dab0807222341v318a2cal697c9ff0b661b56@mail.gmail.com> References: <9b1b9dab0807221644m2df43b2bsb556b611d279bbd@mail.gmail.com> <001101c8ec5d$fedeb120$0201a8c0@Barnette> <4886757F.7090206@opus40.org> <9b1b9dab0807222341v318a2cal697c9ff0b661b56@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <488704C5.5070109@opus40.org> The list we made up, that Jim Finnegan put on his blog, of books on poetry and poetics. Chris Lott wrote: > What is Jim's list? > > One title that won't help is Steele's _All the Fun's in How You Say a > Thing_ which is what has lead me to this despairing state... > > c > > On Tue, Jul 22, 2008 at 16:04, TheOldMole wrote: > >> Is that on Jim's list? If not, it should be added. >> >> Renee Ashley wrote: >> >>> Hi Chris, >>> >>> Derek Attridge's POETIC RHYTHM: AN INTRODUCTION really helped me. It's >>> the first thing I ever read that pointed out it wasn't as black and white as >>> my teachers had indicated... >>> > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ The moral is this: in American verse, The better you are, the pay is worse. --Corey Ford From jforjames at aol.com Wed Jul 23 09:35:31 2008 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames@aol.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:33 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] a dead ear for scansion In-Reply-To: <488704C5.5070109@opus40.org> References: <9b1b9dab0807221644m2df43b2bsb556b611d279bbd@mail.gmail.com> <001101c8ec5d$fedeb120$0201a8c0@Barnette> <4886757F.7090206@opus40.org> <9b1b9dab0807222341v318a2cal697c9ff0b661b56@mail.gmail.com> <488704C5.5070109@opus40.org> Message-ID: <8CABAE01C5F3272-7D4-21CF@WEBMAIL-DF07.sysops.aol.com> The Derek Attridge book?is in?the 'Ars Poetica Library', v03-07, (which I hope to update later in the summer). See... http://ursprache.blogspot.com/2007/03/poets-ideal-library-work-in-progress.html Actually, Chris, if you go down into the comments area you'll see the more readable version of the first list which you did for me. I'll correct Tad on one point, though I initiated this compilation, and added many of the titles from my?personal library,?it was a collaborative effort and many people on the NewPoetry list suggested titles. I have at least 25 more to add in next version. Annie Finch who knows a thing or two about meter has mentioned this book on serveral ocassions,..it's also on the list... Versification: A Short Introduction, James McAuley, Formalism/Metrics. Michigan State U. Press 1966 Sam Gwynn and Robin Hamilton surely have an opinion on what books are best for the study of metrical poetry. They must be on vacation. Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: TheOldMole Sent: Wed, 23 Jul 2008 6:15 am Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] a dead ear for scansion The list we made up, that Jim Finnegan put on his blog, of books on poetry and poetics.? ? Chris Lott wrote:? > What is Jim's list?? >? > One title that won't help is Steele's _All the Fun's in How You Say a? > Thing_ which is what has lead me to this despairing state...? >? > c? >? > On Tue, Jul 22, 2008 at 16:04, TheOldMole wrote:? > >> Is that on Jim's list? If not, it should be added.? >>? >> Renee Ashley wrote:? >> >>> Hi Chris,? >>>? >>> Derek Attridge's POETIC RHYTHM: AN INTRODUCTION really helped me. It's? >>> the first thing I ever read that pointed out it wasn't as black and white as? >>> my teachers had indicated...? >>> > _______________________________________________? > New-Poetry mailing list? > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu? > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry? >? > ? -- Tad Richards? http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/? http://opusforty.blogspot.com/? ? The moral is this: in American verse,? The better you are, the pay is worse.? ?--Corey Ford? ? _______________________________________________? New-Poetry mailing list? New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu? http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080723/29d7454d/attachment.html From Rsgwynn1 at cs.com Wed Jul 23 09:49:46 2008 From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com (Rsgwynn1@cs.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:33 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] a dead ear for scansion Message-ID: In a message dated 7/22/2008 8:44:22 PM Central Daylight Time, AlMaginnes@aol.com writes: > > Paul Fussell's book, whose title escapes me just now. > > I like Poetic Meter and Poetic Form because it admits up front that graphic scansion is, at best, a pretty poor way of illustrating what we ought to hear in a line, not see. That's why I don't spend much time on scansion in the advanced poetry course I'm teaching right now. I use two levels of stress-- u and / --and tell students about other systems that use three or four but don't expect them to use them. For me it just gets too subjective if you have four levels. Stephen Fry's The Ode Less Travelled is a book that students like--an very intelligent amateur speaking to other amateurs. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080723/049b6209/attachment.html From Rsgwynn1 at cs.com Wed Jul 23 09:53:05 2008 From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com (Rsgwynn1@cs.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:33 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] a dead ear for scansion Message-ID: Oh, and Fry's book is written as a how-to-do it manual, with writing exercises geared toward illustrating the general principles of versification. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080723/635cda29/attachment.html From jforjames at aol.com Wed Jul 23 09:54:22 2008 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames@aol.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:33 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] a dead ear for scansion In-Reply-To: <8CABAE01C5F3272-7D4-21CF@WEBMAIL-DF07.sysops.aol.com> References: <9b1b9dab0807221644m2df43b2bsb556b611d279bbd@mail.gmail.com> <001101c8ec5d$fedeb120$0201a8c0@Barnette> <4886757F.7090206@opus40.org> <9b1b9dab0807222341v318a2cal697c9ff0b661b56@mail.gmail.com> <488704C5.5070109@opus40.org> <8CABAE01C5F3272-7D4-21CF@WEBMAIL-DF07.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <8CABAE2BED33310-7D4-2355@WEBMAIL-DF07.sysops.aol.com> Oh..I see Tad had it right about the list being? done, in large part, by 'we' at NewPorty. Read right past that. Anyway, one other refinement, Phase 2,?in the next version will be categorizing the books.. Guidebook Essary Poetics Criticism etc., which will be task since there is invitable overlap in categories...so maybe some titles will be tagged in two or more categories. The larger and more daunting task, Phase 3,?is to add a one paragraph descriptive synopsis to each title, and to make some reference to earlier editions, when applicable. I may call on volunteers from this list and from?other lists to?each pick a handful of books to describe. Some of it can be gleaned from publishers websites and web, but for many of?titles someone will have to compose. Margery Snyder editor of About.com Poetry has done some work along this line, and she/they?added a way to buy selected titles... http://poetry.about.com/od/poetrytools/tp/libdictionaries.htm Someone also suggested doing Best Poetry Anthologies list, because as was oft said when the list was being made, if you want to learn poetics, immerse yourself in the soruce materia. Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: jforjames@aol.com To: new-poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Wed, 23 Jul 2008 9:35 am Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] a dead ear for scansion The Derek Attridge book?is in?the 'Ars Poetica Library', v03-07, (which I hope to update later in the summer). See... http://ursprache.blogspot.com/2007/03/poets-ideal-library-work-in-progress.html Actually, Chris, if you go down into the comments area you'll see the more readable version of the first list which you did for me. I'll correct Tad on one point, though I initiated this compilation, and added many of the titles from my?personal library,?it was a collaborative effort and many people on the NewPoetry list suggested titles. I have at least 25 more to add in next version. Annie Finch who knows a thing or two about meter has mentioned this book on serveral ocassions,..it's also on the list... Versification: A Short Introduction, James McAuley, Formalism/Metrics. Michigan State U. Press 1966 Sam Gwynn and Robin Hamilton surely have an opinion on what books are best for the study of metrical poetry. They must be on vacation. Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: TheOldMole Sent: Wed, 23 Jul 2008 6:15 am Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] a dead ear for scansion The list we made up, that Jim Finnegan put on his blog, of books on poetry and poetics.? ? Chris Lott wrote:? > What is Jim's list?? >? > One title that won't help is Steele's _All the Fun's in How You Say a? > Thing_ which is what has lead me to this despairing state...? >? > c? >? > On Tue, Jul 22, 2008 at 16:04, TheOldMole wrote:? > >> Is that on Jim's list? If not, it should be added.? >>? >> Renee Ashley wrote:? >> >>> Hi Chris,? >>>? >>> Derek Attridge's POETIC RHYTHM: AN INTRODUCTION really helped me. It's? >>> the first thing I ever read that pointed out it wasn't as black and white as? >>> my teachers had indicated...? >>> > _______________________________________________? > New-Poetry mailing list? > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu? > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry? >? > ? -- Tad Richards? http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/? http://opusforty.blogspot.com/? ? The moral is this: in American verse,? The better you are, the pay is worse.? ?--Corey Ford? ? _______________________________________________? New-Poetry mailing list? New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu? http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry? The Famous, the Infamous, the Lame - in your browser. Get the TMZ Toolbar Now! _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080723/9e924073/attachment.html From Opus40-01 at opus40.org Wed Jul 23 10:36:43 2008 From: Opus40-01 at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:33 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] a dead ear for scansion In-Reply-To: <8CABAE01C5F3272-7D4-21CF@WEBMAIL-DF07.sysops.aol.com> References: <9b1b9dab0807221644m2df43b2bsb556b611d279bbd@mail.gmail.com> <001101c8ec5d$fedeb120$0201a8c0@Barnette> <4886757F.7090206@opus40.org> <9b1b9dab0807222341v318a2cal697c9ff0b661b56@mail.gmail.com> <488704C5.5070109@opus40.org> <8CABAE01C5F3272-7D4-21CF@WEBMAIL-DF07.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <488741FB.1030801@opus40.org> I meant you as shepherd of it. I know I, and others, contributed to it. I realized as soon as I had posted that it was Chris who had organized the list and made it readable, so my apologies. But don't sell yourself short, Jim. You're the one who brought this listserv together, and who encouraged the compliation of the poets' ideal library list. I don't think anyone else here besides you would think "Jim's list" anything but fitting. jforjames@aol.com wrote: > The Derek Attridge book is in the 'Ars Poetica Library', v03-07, > (which I hope to update later in the summer). See... > http://ursprache.blogspot.com/2007/03/poets-ideal-library-work-in-progress.html > Actually, Chris, if you go down into the comments area you'll see the > more readable version of the first list which you did for me. I'll > correct Tad on one point, though I initiated this compilation, and > added many of the titles from my personal library, it was a > collaborative effort and many people on the NewPoetry list suggested > titles. > I have at least 25 more to add in next version. > > Annie Finch who knows a thing or two about meter has mentioned this > book on serveral ocassions,..it's also on the list... > Versification: A Short Introduction, James McAuley, Formalism/Metrics. > Michigan State U. Press 1966 > > Sam Gwynn and Robin Hamilton surely have an opinion on what books are > best for the study of metrical poetry. > They must be on vacation. > > Finnegan > > -----Original Message----- > From: TheOldMole > Sent: Wed, 23 Jul 2008 6:15 am > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] a dead ear for scansion > > The list we made up, that Jim Finnegan put on his blog, of books on > poetry and poetics. > > Chris Lott wrote: > > What is Jim's list? > > > > One title that won't help is Steele's _All the Fun's in How You Say a > > Thing_ which is what has lead me to this despairing state... > > > > c > > > > On Tue, Jul 22, 2008 at 16:04, TheOldMole > wrote: > > >> Is that on Jim's list? If not, it should be added. > >> > >> Renee Ashley wrote: > >> >>> Hi Chris, > >>> > >>> Derek Attridge's POETIC RHYTHM: AN INTRODUCTION really helped me. > It's > >>> the first thing I ever read that pointed out it wasn't as black > and white as > >>> my teachers had indicated... > >>> > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > -- Tad Richards > http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ > http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ > > The moral is this: in American verse, > The better you are, the pay is worse. > --Corey Ford > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > The Famous, the Infamous, the Lame - in your browser. Get the TMZ > Toolbar Now > ! > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ The moral is this: in American verse, The better you are, the pay is worse. --Corey Ford From Opus40-01 at opus40.org Wed Jul 23 10:41:02 2008 From: Opus40-01 at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:33 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] a dead ear for scansion In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <488742FE.7040905@opus40.org> Pinsky's not bad on scansion vs, what you actually hear. Mary Oliver's Rules for the Dance is a good teachable, readable book on form Rsgwynn1@cs.com wrote: > In a message dated 7/22/2008 8:44:22 PM Central Daylight Time, > AlMaginnes@aol.com writes: >> >> Paul Fussell's book, whose title escapes me just now. >> > > I like /Poetic Meter and Poetic Form/ because it admits up front that > graphic scansion is, at best, a pretty poor way of illustrating what > we ought to /hear/ in a line, not /see/. That's why I don't spend > much time on scansion in the advanced poetry course I'm teaching right > now. I use two levels of stress-- u and / --and tell students about > other systems that use three or four but don't expect them to use > them. For me it just gets too subjective if you have four levels. > > Stephen Fry's /The Ode Less Travelled/ is a book that students > like--an very intelligent amateur speaking to other amateurs. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ The moral is this: in American verse, The better you are, the pay is worse. --Corey Ford From grahamd at ripon.edu Wed Jul 23 10:54:00 2008 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:33 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: a dead ear for scansion In-Reply-To: <488742FE.7040905@opus40.org> References: <488742FE.7040905@opus40.org> Message-ID: <8CAF2FEE-93D4-4124-AC01-15F6ACDC6B94@ripon.edu> One thing I like about Nims's take on scansion is that he places it in context as one way of negotiating a poem's sounds. Before he gets to naming the feet & describing scansion marks, he conducts a very sensible analysis of the basics of vowel tones, consonant effects, rhyme, rhythms, and so forth. So by the time he comes to defining a trochee it's easy for students to understand how meter is simply a traditional way of organizing sound. When teaching I always like to discuss sound & rhythm in some depth before turning to meter. I think the fiercest arguments I've witnessed in the world of poetry have been over scansion. Given the many competing systems and frequently wild disagreements about the fundamentals, I rapidly lose interest in arguments that zero in on the "right" way to scan a given line or poem. I'd love to hear more about Fry's book, which I haven't yet seen. ======================================== David Graham grahamd@ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.mac.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== On Jul 23, 2008, at 10:41 AM, TheOldMole wrote: > Pinsky's not bad on scansion vs, what you actually hear. > > Mary Oliver's Rules for the Dance is a good teachable, readable > book on form > > Rsgwynn1@cs.com wrote: >> In a message dated 7/22/2008 8:44:22 PM Central Daylight Time, >> AlMaginnes@aol.com writes: >>> >>> Paul Fussell's book, whose title escapes me just now. >>> >> >> I like /Poetic Meter and Poetic Form/ because it admits up front >> that graphic scansion is, at best, a pretty poor way of >> illustrating what we ought to /hear/ in a line, not /see/. That's >> why I don't spend much time on scansion in the advanced poetry >> course I'm teaching right now. I use two levels of stress-- u >> and / --and tell students about other systems that use three or >> four but don't expect them to use them. For me it just gets too >> subjective if you have four levels. >> >> Stephen Fry's /The Ode Less Travelled/ is a book that students >> like--an very intelligent amateur speaking to other amateurs. >> >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >> --- >> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080723/1e61a554/attachment.html From robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com Wed Jul 23 11:11:15 2008 From: robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com (Robin Hamilton) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:33 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] a dead ear for scansion References: <9b1b9dab0807221644m2df43b2bsb556b611d279bbd@mail.gmail.com> <001101c8ec5d$fedeb120$0201a8c0@Barnette> <4886757F.7090206@opus40.org> <9b1b9dab0807222341v318a2cal697c9ff0b661b56@mail.gmail.com><488704C5.5070109@opus40.org> <8CABAE01C5F3272-7D4-21CF@WEBMAIL-DF07.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <006a01c8ecd6$5a620970$4101a8c0@CoreDuo> << Sam Gwynn and Robin Hamilton surely have an opinion on what books are best for the study of metrical poetry. They must be on vacation. Finnegan >> My own favourite is Joseph Maloff, _A Manual of English Meters_. Robin Hamilton (Who's not so much on vacation as trying to get his head around the distinction between nips and foists. And whether pockets existed before pickpockets did.) From Rsgwynn1 at cs.com Wed Jul 23 11:35:20 2008 From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com (Rsgwynn1@cs.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:33 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: a dead ear for scansion Message-ID: In a message dated 7/23/2008 9:55:02 AM Central Daylight Time, grahamd@ripon.edu writes: > > > I think the fiercest arguments I've witnessed in the world of poetry have > been over scansion. Given the many competing systems and frequently wild > disagreements about the fundamentals, I rapidly lose interest in arguments that > zero in on the "right" way to scan a given line or poem. > > > I'd love to hear more about Fry's book, which I haven't yet seen. > > Ha, no kidding! I try to stay out of them. Positively Jesuitical! You can check Fry's book out at amazon.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080723/51b65cfb/attachment.html From chris.lott at gmail.com Wed Jul 23 12:06:02 2008 From: chris.lott at gmail.com (Chris Lott) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:34 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: a dead ear for scansion In-Reply-To: <8CAF2FEE-93D4-4124-AC01-15F6ACDC6B94@ripon.edu> References: <488742FE.7040905@opus40.org> <8CAF2FEE-93D4-4124-AC01-15F6ACDC6B94@ripon.edu> Message-ID: <9b1b9dab0807230906m44d59c6ehce5e120174bd444@mail.gmail.com> On Wed, Jul 23, 2008 at 06:54, David Graham wrote: > > I think the fiercest arguments I've witnessed in the world of poetry have > been over scansion. Given the many competing systems and frequently wild > disagreements about the fundamentals, I rapidly lose interest in arguments > that zero in on the "right" way to scan a given line or poem. Doesn't that mean scansion is pretty much useless? If even the fundamentals are up for grabs, then what's the point? Asserting that a particular rhythm is used in a particular place for a particular reason is already a stretch-- if the assertion of the rhythm is really just a subjective, reader-based decision then it's just more interpretive hooha (for the record, I like a lot of hooha, I just didn't know scansion was part of that set). I see people asserting specific readings on this list all the time. I take a few voices here to be experts in that area. Is there no there there? At any rate, I'm less interested in defending a right side than understanding how people do it. I'd like to reach a point of confidence that it seems everyone else here has but me! Like the four lines I gave on the other list that prompted me to ask the question: an aged man is but a paltry thing, a tattered coat upon a stick, unless and Thy life a long dead calm of fixed repose; and strains from hard-bound brains, eight lines a year How do you (or anyone else) scan them? c From Rsgwynn1 at cs.com Wed Jul 23 12:29:42 2008 From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com (Rsgwynn1@cs.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:34 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: a dead ear for scansion Message-ID: In a message dated 7/23/2008 11:11:46 AM Central Daylight Time, chris.lott@ gmail.com writes: > an aged man is but a paltry thing, > a tattered coat upon a stick, unless I'd scan both of these as more or less regular I5. > > and > u / u / / / u / u / > Thy life a long dead calm of fixed repose; One spondee for an iamb. u / u / / / / / u / > and strains from hard-bound brains, eight lines a year > Two spondees in a row. Pope also illustrates the slow-down effect in: When Ajax strives some rock's vast weight to throw > How do you (or anyone else) scan them? > You could always attend the West Chester Poetry Conference, Chris! Sam -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080723/e8b6dde8/attachment.html From jbalizsprince at googlemail.com Wed Jul 23 12:33:15 2008 From: jbalizsprince at googlemail.com (Judy Prince) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:34 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: a dead ear for scansion In-Reply-To: <9b1b9dab0807230906m44d59c6ehce5e120174bd444@mail.gmail.com> References: <488742FE.7040905@opus40.org> <8CAF2FEE-93D4-4124-AC01-15F6ACDC6B94@ripon.edu> <9b1b9dab0807230906m44d59c6ehce5e120174bd444@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7db1d01b0807230933i648dabf2v74dd082b58577b23@mail.gmail.com> Let me know when you're ready for the Judy Scansion system using several combos: OL, LO, OLO, OOL, LOO (don't go there), LOOO, and OOOL. The system has the advantage of being pronouncible and unintimidating. O stands for unstressed syllables; L for stressed. Using this system, I found what most folks already know: English's mostly repeated OLs. I also found, about the kinds of discussions many of you describe, many times each person "says" the lines in the way (s)he scans them. So the discussion, quite naturally, becomes each person's defense of the scansion that represents how (s)he speaks the lines. Judy 2008/7/23 Chris Lott : > On Wed, Jul 23, 2008 at 06:54, David Graham wrote: > > > > I think the fiercest arguments I've witnessed in the world of poetry have > > been over scansion. Given the many competing systems and frequently wild > > disagreements about the fundamentals, I rapidly lose interest in > arguments > > that zero in on the "right" way to scan a given line or poem. > > Doesn't that mean scansion is pretty much useless? If even the > fundamentals are up for grabs, then what's the point? Asserting that a > particular rhythm is used in a particular place for a particular > reason is already a stretch-- if the assertion of the rhythm is really > just a subjective, reader-based decision then it's just more > interpretive hooha (for the record, I like a lot of hooha, I just > didn't know scansion was part of that set). > > I see people asserting specific readings on this list all the time. I > take a few voices here to be experts in that area. Is there no there > there? > > At any rate, I'm less interested in defending a right side than > understanding how people do it. I'd like to reach a point of > confidence that it seems everyone else here has but me! > > Like the four lines I gave on the other list that prompted me to ask > the question: > > an aged man is but a paltry thing, > a tattered coat upon a stick, unless > > and > > Thy life a long dead calm of fixed repose; > and strains from hard-bound brains, eight lines a year > > How do you (or anyone else) scan them? > > c > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080723/4123e39d/attachment.html From Opus40-01 at opus40.org Wed Jul 23 12:47:14 2008 From: Opus40-01 at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:34 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: a dead ear for scansion In-Reply-To: <7db1d01b0807230933i648dabf2v74dd082b58577b23@mail.gmail.com> References: <488742FE.7040905@opus40.org> <8CAF2FEE-93D4-4124-AC01-15F6ACDC6B94@ripon.edu> <9b1b9dab0807230906m44d59c6ehce5e120174bd444@mail.gmail.com> <7db1d01b0807230933i648dabf2v74dd082b58577b23@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <48876092.50602@opus40.org> Judy -- LOL. Judy Prince wrote: > Let me know when you're ready for the Judy Scansion system using > several combos: OL, LO, OLO, OOL, LOO (don't go there), LOOO, and > OOOL. The system has the advantage of being pronouncible and > unintimidating. O stands for unstressed syllables; L for stressed. > Using this system, I found what most folks already know: English's > mostly repeated OLs. I also found, about the kinds of discussions > many of you describe, many times each person "says" the lines in the > way (s)he scans them. So the discussion, quite naturally, becomes > each person's defense of the scansion that represents how (s)he speaks > the lines. > > Judy > > 2008/7/23 Chris Lott >: > > On Wed, Jul 23, 2008 at 06:54, David Graham > wrote: > > > > I think the fiercest arguments I've witnessed in the world of > poetry have > > been over scansion. Given the many competing systems and > frequently wild > > disagreements about the fundamentals, I rapidly lose interest in > arguments > > that zero in on the "right" way to scan a given line or poem. > > Doesn't that mean scansion is pretty much useless? If even the > fundamentals are up for grabs, then what's the point? Asserting that a > particular rhythm is used in a particular place for a particular > reason is already a stretch-- if the assertion of the rhythm is really > just a subjective, reader-based decision then it's just more > interpretive hooha (for the record, I like a lot of hooha, I just > didn't know scansion was part of that set). > > I see people asserting specific readings on this list all the time. I > take a few voices here to be experts in that area. Is there no there > there? > > At any rate, I'm less interested in defending a right side than > understanding how people do it. I'd like to reach a point of > confidence that it seems everyone else here has but me! > > Like the four lines I gave on the other list that prompted me to ask > the question: > > an aged man is but a paltry thing, > a tattered coat upon a stick, unless > > and > > Thy life a long dead calm of fixed repose; > and strains from hard-bound brains, eight lines a year > > How do you (or anyone else) scan them? > > c > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ The moral is this: in American verse, The better you are, the pay is worse. --Corey Ford From Rsgwynn1 at cs.com Wed Jul 23 13:20:20 2008 From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com (Rsgwynn1@cs.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:34 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: a dead ear for scansion Message-ID: In a message dated 7/23/2008 11:47:44 AM Central Daylight Time, Opus40-01@opus40.org writes: > > Judy -- LOL. > > Judy Prince wrote: > >Let me know when you're ready for the Judy Scansion system using > >several combos: OL, LO, OLO, OOL, LOO (don't go there), LOOO, and > >OOOL. The system has the advantage of being pronouncible and > >unintimidating. O stands for unstressed syllables; L for stressed. > > Using this system, I found what most folks already know: English's > >mostly repeated OLs. I also found, about the kinds of discussions > >many of you describe, many times each person "says" the lines in the > >way (s)he scans them. So the discussion, quite naturally, becomes > >each person's defense of the scansion that represents how (s)he speaks > >the lines. > > Ha, you can't fOOL me! Actually I use :( and :), emoticons if my software allows them. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080723/8b530eb6/attachment.html From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Wed Jul 23 14:41:37 2008 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:34 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: a dead ear for scansion In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <48877B61.3060100@nut-n-but.net> Rsgwynn1@cs.com wrote: > In a message dated 7/23/2008 11:11:46 AM Central Daylight Time, > chris.lott@gmail.com writes: >> an aged man is but a paltry thing, >> a tattered coat upon a stick, unless > > > > I'd scan both of these as more or less regular I5. > >> >> and > > > > u / u / / / u / u / >> Thy life a long dead calm of fixed repose; > > > One spondee for an iamb. > > u / u / / / / / u / >> and strains from hard-bound brains, eight lines a year > > > Two spondees in a row. Pope also illustrates the slow-down effect in: > > When Ajax strives some rock's vast weight to throw > >> How do you (or anyone else) scan them? I think you can scan them two ways, one as all iambs if you want aesthetic distancing, and one as Sam has them, if you want to return toward prose. I suggest calling the first, "the base meter," the second, "the counter meter." The context establishes the first, the mood counters the second to it. --Bob G. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080723/2d92782e/attachment.html From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Wed Jul 23 14:45:01 2008 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:34 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: a dead ear for scansion In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <48877C2D.30905@nut-n-but.net> Or maybe it's just scansion versus reading, scansion following the meter indicated by the context, reading following the prose pronunciation. --Bob G. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080723/ea7a2798/attachment.html From halvard at earthlink.net Wed Jul 23 13:50:31 2008 From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:34 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Sonnet: Milwaukee, City of Rumors Message-ID: Sonnet: Milwaukee, City of Rumors Running down rumors along Milwaukee's dark, Brucknerian boulevards, streets, and alleys, in the urban half-light of America, half-hoping to find some truth in them: the rumors, say, that the Brewers will move to Havana, taking all of the city with them. Ah, the sunlight, the salt sea air. But no, that one evaporates as soon as one catches up to it, leaving the others, the one that very late at night, just before dawn in fact, early morning joggers by the lake can see Ed Gein walking the beach, something round and wrapped in newspaper beneath his arm, looking for a waste basket empty enough to receive it, the one that Lake Michigan will be rebaptized Lake Wisconsin. Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard@gmail.com halvard@earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080723/48c2e23f/attachment.html From jforjames at aol.com Wed Jul 23 13:57:32 2008 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames@aol.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:34 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: a dead ear for scansion In-Reply-To: <9b1b9dab0807230906m44d59c6ehce5e120174bd444@mail.gmail.com> References: <488742FE.7040905@opus40.org> <8CAF2FEE-93D4-4124-AC01-15F6ACDC6B94@ripon.edu> <9b1b9dab0807230906m44d59c6ehce5e120174bd444@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <8CABB04B6E19AC4-5A4-1872@WEBMAIL-MC19.sysops.aol.com> This might help... Both matter and radiation possess a remarkable duality of character, as they sometimes exhibit the properties of waves, at other times those of particles. Now it is obvious that a thing cannot be a form of wave motion and composed of particles at the same time - the two concepts are too different. (Werner Heisenberg, on Quantum Theory, 1930) The solution of the difficulty is that the two mental pictures which experiment lead us to form - the one of the particles, the other of the waves - are both incomplete and have only the validity of analogies which are accurate only in limiting cases. (Werner Heisenberg, on Quantum Theory, 1930) -----Original Message----- From: Chris Lott Sent: Wed, 23 Jul 2008 12:06 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Re: a dead ear for scansion On Wed, Jul 23, 2008 at 06:54, David Graham wrote: > > I think the fiercest arguments I've witnessed in the world of poetry have > been over scansion. Given the many competing systems and frequently wild > disagreements about the fundamentals, I rapidly lose interest in arguments > that zero in on the "right" way to scan a given line or poem. Doesn't that mean scansion is pretty much useless? If even the fundamentals are up for grabs, then what's the point? Asserting that a particular rhythm is used in a particular place for a particular reason is already a stretch-- if the assertion of the rhythm is really just a subjective, reader-based decision then it's just more interpretive hooha (for the record, I like a lot of hooha, I just didn't know scansion was part of that set). I see people asserting specific readings on this list all the time. I take a few voices here to be experts in that area. Is there no there there? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080723/9a000ae1/attachment.html From chris.lott at gmail.com Wed Jul 23 14:41:42 2008 From: chris.lott at gmail.com (Chris Lott) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:34 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: a dead ear for scansion In-Reply-To: <8CABB04B6E19AC4-5A4-1872@WEBMAIL-MC19.sysops.aol.com> References: <488742FE.7040905@opus40.org> <8CAF2FEE-93D4-4124-AC01-15F6ACDC6B94@ripon.edu> <9b1b9dab0807230906m44d59c6ehce5e120174bd444@mail.gmail.com> <8CABB04B6E19AC4-5A4-1872@WEBMAIL-MC19.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <9b1b9dab0807231141r19dfedbcie169d3a855c6b445@mail.gmail.com> Between OOL-LO-LO and quantum theory as solutions to my prosody deficiency, I'm not sure whether to laugh or cry! c From Opus40-01 at opus40.org Wed Jul 23 15:02:05 2008 From: Opus40-01 at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:34 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Sonnet: Milwaukee, City of Rumors In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4887802D.6040207@opus40.org> Creepy. I like it. Halvard Johnson wrote: > Sonnet: Milwaukee, City of Rumors > > Running down rumors along Milwaukee's dark, > Brucknerian boulevards, streets, and alleys, > in the urban half-light of America, half-hoping > to find some truth in them: the rumors, say, that > the Brewers will move to Havana, taking all of > the city with them. Ah, the sunlight, the salt > sea air. But no, that one evaporates as soon as > one catches up to it, leaving the others, the one > that very late at night, just before dawn in fact, > early morning joggers by the lake can see Ed Gein > walking the beach, something round and wrapped > in newspaper beneath his arm, looking for a waste > basket empty enough to receive it, the one that > Lake Michigan will be rebaptized Lake Wisconsin. > > > > Hal > > Halvard Johnson > ================ > halvard@gmail.com > halvard@earthlink.net > http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > http://www.hamiltonstone.org > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ The moral is this: in American verse, The better you are, the pay is worse. --Corey Ford From skip at louisiana.edu Wed Jul 23 15:19:13 2008 From: skip at louisiana.edu (Skip Fox) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:34 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: a dead ear for scansion In-Reply-To: <48877C2D.30905@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: Everyone here loves books and probably more than most people we went to books throughout our lives when we wanted to learn how to do something. But there may be times when relying on a book is a distraction from what you might do yourself. Like scansion. Syllable stress and unstress (if more nuanced and less precise than generally taught . . . what isn't?) are already there (and in everything you say). Proof: look in the dictionary. But just like a two or more syllable word, nearly every phrase is composed of stressed and unstressed syllables. Proof 2: tape record someone reading and watch the needle that monitors loudness. A book can point you to what your own ears are already hearing, and a book can tell you want to call the various combinations, but one's ear is already hearing the stressed and unstressed sound. Do we now need books to show us how to listen? (Side note: Is that the result of the screaming media . . . have you ever search for something relaxing on television? It sounds simplistic, but what are the odds that everything everyone watches while claiming he or she wants to relax is torqued, jazzed up, etc.??) Or books on how to teach creative writing, for crying out loud!!! (Wonder what "creative" means.) Not to say that these books might not occasionally be useful, but don't we often abdicate our responsibility (our "ability to respond," as Robert Duncan put it) as poets or humans by over relying on books, especially when the issue is ourselves: our ear, our creativity. Here's a trick I didn't find in a book but could well be in one (i.e., please don't let it be a substitute for learning to listen, or realizing what you're hearing): You can read poetry almost silently, just above a whisper, where the vocal cords just begin to find purchase, then most sounds that come from you will be discernibly different, some above the line (gravel voice sound), some below (whisper). But the trick is to hear the rhythmic swell behind our language, and EVERYTHING scans. (There are, of course, variant lines, and many books even note that all stresses are not the same in intensity, etc., but basically everything in our language scans.) Don't quote me :) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080723/042357c7/attachment.html From skip at louisiana.edu Wed Jul 23 15:29:24 2008 From: skip at louisiana.edu (Skip Fox) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:34 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: a dead ear for scansion In-Reply-To: Message-ID: But in a normal (non dramatic) reading, we don't stress "is" as much as "man" or "but." Maybe an actor might stage "is" loud as part of his interpretation, but no normal reading (even with a length caesura) would stress it as much. The world is too much with us late and soon. The only one would stress "much" would unstress the previous tow syllable and he's probably an old hippie . ;) -----Original Message----- From: new-poetry-bounces@wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto:new-poetry-bounces@wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Rsgwynn1@cs.com Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2008 11:30 AM To: new-poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Re: a dead ear for scansion In a message dated 7/23/2008 11:11:46 AM Central Daylight Time, chris.lott@gmail.com writes: an aged man is but a paltry thing, a tattered coat upon a stick, unless I'd scan both of these as more or less regular I5. and u / u / / / u / u / Thy life a long dead calm of fixed repose; One spondee for an iamb. u / u / / / / / u / and strains from hard-bound brains, eight lines a year Two spondees in a row. Pope also illustrates the slow-down effect in: When Ajax strives some rock's vast weight to throw How do you (or anyone else) scan them? You could always attend the West Chester Poetry Conference, Chris! Sam -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080723/a70e719c/attachment.html From skip at louisiana.edu Wed Jul 23 15:42:37 2008 From: skip at louisiana.edu (Skip Fox) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:35 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: a dead ear for scansion In-Reply-To: <48877B61.3060100@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <6027B553B2524504A40FDAF261793AC8@win.louisiana.edu> Stressing is different with different readers, though basically the same. If we were reading "An aged man is but a paltry thing " with "aged" being 2 syllables, a dramatic interpretation might stress "is" in a performance, but a normal reading would not. I'm with you. The "is" is softer than "man" or "but" even after a long caesura? (If "aged" is a single syllable, then u / / u / u / u /.) "My life a long dead calm of fixed repose" I have it exactly as you do, though they say it's hard to string three stresses together ( as in "Petals on a black, wet bough"). "and strains from hard-bound brains, eight lines a year" A variant on "eight." It's a tad more dramatic to stress it, but still within the bounds of the normal reading voice. Once upon a time we knew that the trees have different voices. -----Original Message----- From: new-poetry-bounces@wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto:new-poetry-bounces@wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Bob Grumman Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2008 1:42 PM To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Re: a dead ear for scansion Rsgwynn1@cs.com wrote: In a message dated 7/23/2008 11:11:46 AM Central Daylight Time, chris.lott@gmail.com writes: an aged man is but a paltry thing, a tattered coat upon a stick, unless I'd scan both of these as more or less regular I5. and u / u / / / u / u / Thy life a long dead calm of fixed repose; One spondee for an iamb. u / u / / / / / u / and strains from hard-bound brains, eight lines a year Two spondees in a row. Pope also illustrates the slow-down effect in: When Ajax strives some rock's vast weight to throw How do you (or anyone else) scan them? I think you can scan them two ways, one as all iambs if you want aesthetic distancing, and one as Sam has them, if you want to return toward prose. I suggest calling the first, "the base meter," the second, "the counter meter." The context establishes the first, the mood counters the second to it. --Bob G. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080723/300ea42e/attachment.html From anny.ballardini at tin.it Wed Jul 23 15:45:50 2008 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:35 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: a dead ear for scansion In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Christian Bok stresses every single thing! And I am with you in saying there is no time for scansion, especially with (by now) four or five sleepless night (the ones I am piling up.... ----- Original Message ----- From: Skip Fox To: 'NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views' Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2008 9:29 PM Subject: RE: [New-Poetry] Re: a dead ear for scansion But in a normal (non dramatic) reading, we don't stress "is" as much as "man" or "but." Maybe an actor might stage "is" loud as part of his interpretation, but no normal reading (even with a length caesura) would stress it as much. The world is too much with us late and soon. The only one would stress "much" would unstress the previous tow syllable and he's probably an old hippie . ;) -----Original Message----- From: new-poetry-bounces@wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto:new-poetry-bounces@wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Rsgwynn1@cs.com Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2008 11:30 AM To: new-poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Re: a dead ear for scansion In a message dated 7/23/2008 11:11:46 AM Central Daylight Time, chris.lott@gmail.com writes: an aged man is but a paltry thing, a tattered coat upon a stick, unless I'd scan both of these as more or less regular I5. and u / u / / / u / u / Thy life a long dead calm of fixed repose; One spondee for an iamb. u / u / / / / / u / and strains from hard-bound brains, eight lines a year Two spondees in a row. Pope also illustrates the slow-down effect in: When Ajax strives some rock's vast weight to throw How do you (or anyone else) scan them? You could always attend the West Chester Poetry Conference, Chris! Sam ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 270.5.4/1567 - Release Date: 7/22/2008 4:05 PM -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080723/6761fe5e/attachment.html From jbalizsprince at googlemail.com Wed Jul 23 15:56:32 2008 From: jbalizsprince at googlemail.com (Judy Prince) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:35 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: a dead ear for scansion In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7db1d01b0807231256q378fa874jf65c83c7969a0163@mail.gmail.com> ;-(OO)-; 2U! emotically yrs 2008/7/23 : > In a message dated 7/23/2008 11:47:44 AM Central Daylight Time, > Opus40-01@opus40.org writes: > > > Judy -- LOL. > > Judy Prince wrote: > >Let me know when you're ready for the Judy Scansion system using > >several combos: OL, LO, OLO, OOL, LOO (don't go there), LOOO, and > >OOOL. The system has the advantage of being pronouncible and > >unintimidating. O stands for unstressed syllables; L for stressed. > > Using this system, I found what most folks already know: English's > >mostly repeated OLs. I also found, about the kinds of discussions > >many of you describe, many times each person "says" the lines in the > >way (s)he scans them. So the discussion, quite naturally, becomes > >each person's defense of the scansion that represents how (s)he speaks > >the lines. > > > > > Ha, you can't fOOL me! Actually I use :( and :), emoticons if my software > allows them. > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080723/b04addb1/attachment.html From anny.ballardini at tin.it Wed Jul 23 16:02:21 2008 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:35 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: a dead ear for scansion In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <48F215F388334E81AE25A0FEDA6D2A30@AnnyPC> Logically, "nights" is plural... :-( ----- Original Message ----- From: Anny Ballardini To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2008 9:45 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Re: a dead ear for scansion Christian Bok stresses every single thing! And I am with you in saying there is no time for scansion, especially with (by now) four or five sleepless night (the ones I am piling up.... ----- Original Message ----- From: Skip Fox To: 'NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views' Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2008 9:29 PM Subject: RE: [New-Poetry] Re: a dead ear for scansion But in a normal (non dramatic) reading, we don't stress "is" as much as "man" or "but." Maybe an actor might stage "is" loud as part of his interpretation, but no normal reading (even with a length caesura) would stress it as much. The world is too much with us late and soon. The only one would stress "much" would unstress the previous tow syllable and he's probably an old hippie . ;) -----Original Message----- From: new-poetry-bounces@wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto:new-poetry-bounces@wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Rsgwynn1@cs.com Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2008 11:30 AM To: new-poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Re: a dead ear for scansion In a message dated 7/23/2008 11:11:46 AM Central Daylight Time, chris.lott@gmail.com writes: an aged man is but a paltry thing, a tattered coat upon a stick, unless I'd scan both of these as more or less regular I5. and u / u / / / u / u / Thy life a long dead calm of fixed repose; One spondee for an iamb. u / u / / / / / u / and strains from hard-bound brains, eight lines a year Two spondees in a row. Pope also illustrates the slow-down effect in: When Ajax strives some rock's vast weight to throw How do you (or anyone else) scan them? You could always attend the West Chester Poetry Conference, Chris! Sam -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080723/3bc3ac0b/attachment.html From Rsgwynn1 at cs.com Wed Jul 23 16:13:23 2008 From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com (Rsgwynn1@cs.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:35 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: a dead ear for scansion Message-ID: In a message dated 7/23/2008 2:18:58 PM Central Daylight Time, skip@louisiana.edu writes: > But the trick is to hear the rhythmic swell behind our language, and > EVERYTHING scans. (There are, of course, variant lines, and many books even note > that all stresses are not the same in intensity, etc., but basically everything > in our language scans.) > > > > One thing that prosody/scansion never touches is the difference between long and short vowel sounds in English, the different "pitch" that syllables can have in speaking, the difference in pace between monosyllables and polysyllables in a line of verse. Accent may be the primary component of rhythm and meter, but it surely isn't the only one. Unfortunately we really don't have any good way to "scan" these other variables. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080723/ec60ad6e/attachment.html From Rsgwynn1 at cs.com Wed Jul 23 16:19:51 2008 From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com (Rsgwynn1@cs.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:35 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: a dead ear for scansion Message-ID: In a message dated 7/23/2008 2:42:09 PM Central Daylight Time, skip@louisiana.edu writes: > > > Stressing is different with different readers, though basically the same. If > we were reading > > > > ?An aged man is but a paltry thing ? > > > > with ?aged? being 2 syllables, a dramatic interpretation might stress ?is? > in a performance, but a normal reading would not. I?m with you. The ?is? > is softer than ?man? or ?but? even after a long caesura? (If ?aged? is a > single syllable, then u / / u / u / u /.) > > > Well, with only two marks, it's like I said: "more or less." When you go to, say, a 1-2-3 or a 1-2-3-4 system of scansion you could presumably show these variants. But any line of iambic pentameter could be scanned in multiple ways if we tried to consider what was being emphasized by the words. I said he gave you cash to pay our bills. You could force a stress (using italics maybe) on four different words here (probably not on "to") and 'I," "he," "you," and "our" wouldn't ordinarily receive stresses but could with some kind of "rhetorical emphasis." Each time the line would get a slightly different meaning. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080723/9e5f64e5/attachment.html From skip at louisiana.edu Wed Jul 23 16:31:16 2008 From: skip at louisiana.edu (Skip Fox) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:35 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: a dead ear for scansion In-Reply-To: <7db1d01b0807231256q378fa874jf65c83c7969a0163@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Listening exercise (and why not?): On a windy day, sit in a park or other place with a variety of leafed trees (you can do it with pines and cedars and cypresses but it's harder). Try to pick out the various sounds of the various trees. (You can check by walking over to them.) When you are able to "isolate" each different tree sound, listen to them in the symphony again. Do three times in two weeks and you'll be a Scansion Monk, Third Level. (But, seriously, if you can do this (and anybody can), scansion is simple. . . And I'm not counting Bok. He's a performer of his work in a very staged and polished, his visual presentation as well as his vocal delivery. It, too, scans, but it is difficult to do so due to his fast paced, staccato delivery.) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080723/7f7477ca/attachment.html From skip at louisiana.edu Wed Jul 23 16:40:14 2008 From: skip at louisiana.edu (Skip Fox) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:35 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: a dead ear for scansion In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <2E347F2A651441D0B01F0ED499485CF8@win.louisiana.edu> You're right, we CAN read a line any way we want, but would we? With most lines 95% of us (used to poetry, not dramatic) would read the same stresses and unstresses. With maybe 20% of the lines there are legitimate variants. By the way, in the example you gave, "to" could even be emphasized. (Someone is writing down what she is told by the first person who has her at gunpoint-ransom note or other craziness-and the first person object to what she wrote: "I said he gave you cash TO pay our bills, not FOR paying them.") But that's an odd sentence. -----Original Message----- From: new-poetry-bounces@wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto:new-poetry-bounces@wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Rsgwynn1@cs.com Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2008 3:20 PM To: new-poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Re: a dead ear for scansion In a message dated 7/23/2008 2:42:09 PM Central Daylight Time, skip@louisiana.edu writes: Stressing is different with different readers, though basically the same. If we were reading "An aged man is but a paltry thing " with "aged" being 2 syllables, a dramatic interpretation might stress "is" in a performance, but a normal reading would not. I'm with you. The "is" is softer than "man" or "but" even after a long caesura? (If "aged" is a single syllable, then u / / u / u / u /.) Well, with only two marks, it's like I said: "more or less." When you go to, say, a 1-2-3 or a 1-2-3-4 system of scansion you could presumably show these variants. But any line of iambic pentameter could be scanned in multiple ways if we tried to consider what was being emphasized by the words. I said he gave you cash to pay our bills. You could force a stress (using italics maybe) on four different words here (probably not on "to") and 'I," "he," "you," and "our" wouldn't ordinarily receive stresses but could with some kind of "rhetorical emphasis." Each time the line would get a slightly different meaning. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080723/56918e6a/attachment.html From skip at louisiana.edu Wed Jul 23 16:47:22 2008 From: skip at louisiana.edu (Skip Fox) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:35 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: a dead ear for scansion In-Reply-To: <2E347F2A651441D0B01F0ED499485CF8@win.louisiana.edu> Message-ID: <78F83A633B3448B49507313B3D633FE9@win.louisiana.edu> Are there line we can only scan one way (that is, reasonably)? "The boundary line for one, the furniture of none." Multiple syllable words force the issue. It's rarely this obvious, but maybe writing such lines as practice is another good listening exercise. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080723/fc43f33d/attachment.html From jbalizsprince at googlemail.com Wed Jul 23 16:50:19 2008 From: jbalizsprince at googlemail.com (Judy Prince) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:35 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: a dead ear for scansion In-Reply-To: <2E347F2A651441D0B01F0ED499485CF8@win.louisiana.edu> References: <2E347F2A651441D0B01F0ED499485CF8@win.louisiana.edu> Message-ID: <7db1d01b0807231350h52bc0e3pbc98aa7dd7b6c20@mail.gmail.com> hmmmmm.....it might be more like this, with poets and with non-poets, as given in a birthday card: Three men are walking on the beach. One says, "It's windy today!", the second man responds, "No, it's Thursday!", and the third says, "So am I! Let's have a beer!" Inside the card: "This birthday, surround yourself with friends who really understand you!" 2008/7/23 Skip Fox : > You're right, we CAN read a line any way we want, but would we? With most > lines 95% of us (used to poetry, not dramatic) would read the same stresses > and unstresses. With maybe 20% of the lines there are legitimate variants. > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080723/0a191835/attachment.html From Opus40-01 at opus40.org Wed Jul 23 16:53:21 2008 From: Opus40-01 at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:35 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: a dead ear for scansion In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <48879A41.5010109@opus40.org> I wonder if we need it. I think scansion serves best as a mechanism with a lot of play in it. Rsgwynn1@cs.com wrote: > In a message dated 7/23/2008 2:18:58 PM Central Daylight Time, > skip@louisiana.edu writes: >> But the trick is to hear the rhythmic swell behind our language, and >> EVERYTHING scans. (There are, of course, variant lines, and many >> books even note that all stresses are not the same in intensity, >> etc., but basically everything in our language scans.) >> >> >> > > One thing that prosody/scansion never touches is the difference > between long and short vowel sounds in English, the different "pitch" > that syllables can have in speaking, the difference in pace between > monosyllables and polysyllables in a line of verse. Accent may be the > primary component of rhythm and meter, but it surely isn't the only > one. Unfortunately we really don't have any good way to "scan" these > other variables. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ The moral is this: in American verse, The better you are, the pay is worse. --Corey Ford From Opus40-01 at opus40.org Wed Jul 23 16:55:45 2008 From: Opus40-01 at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:35 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: a dead ear for scansion In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <48879AD1.5020105@opus40.org> One line I give students in discussing the difference between long and short vowel sounds is I met a traveler from an antique land and I ask them to consider how different the swing of the line would be if it were I met a stranger from an ancient place Rsgwynn1@cs.com wrote: > In a message dated 7/23/2008 2:18:58 PM Central Daylight Time, > skip@louisiana.edu writes: >> But the trick is to hear the rhythmic swell behind our language, and >> EVERYTHING scans. (There are, of course, variant lines, and many >> books even note that all stresses are not the same in intensity, >> etc., but basically everything in our language scans.) >> >> >> > > One thing that prosody/scansion never touches is the difference > between long and short vowel sounds in English, the different "pitch" > that syllables can have in speaking, the difference in pace between > monosyllables and polysyllables in a line of verse. Accent may be the > primary component of rhythm and meter, but it surely isn't the only > one. Unfortunately we really don't have any good way to "scan" these > other variables. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ The moral is this: in American verse, The better you are, the pay is worse. --Corey Ford From skip at louisiana.edu Wed Jul 23 17:05:38 2008 From: skip at louisiana.edu (Skip Fox) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:36 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: a dead ear for scansion In-Reply-To: <7db1d01b0807231350h52bc0e3pbc98aa7dd7b6c20@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Scansion (/ u ) Scansion for two (/ u u /) Dictionary guide (/ u / u /) I'm not arguing with anything except to say that there is a commonality to our reading much of the time. (Check the monitor on the tape recorder.) There IS subjectivity to it, but as I tell students (when they bring up the issue of subjectivity, often in terms of grading), it is a lot less subjective than they might imagine. -----Original Message----- From: new-poetry-bounces@wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto:new-poetry-bounces@wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Judy Prince Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2008 3:50 PM To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &,Views Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Re: a dead ear for scansion hmmmmm.....it might be more like this, with poets and with non-poets, as given in a birthday card: Three men are walking on the beach. One says, "It's windy today!", the second man responds, "No, it's Thursday!", and the third says, "So am I! Let's have a beer!" Inside the card: "This birthday, surround yourself with friends who really understand you!" 2008/7/23 Skip Fox : You're right, we CAN read a line any way we want, but would we? With most lines 95% of us (used to poetry, not dramatic) would read the same stresses and unstresses. With maybe 20% of the lines there are legitimate variants. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080723/ee5f1549/attachment.html From skip at louisiana.edu Wed Jul 23 17:22:22 2008 From: skip at louisiana.edu (Skip Fox) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:36 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: a dead ear for scansion In-Reply-To: <48879A41.5010109@opus40.org> Message-ID: <440EFE25A808495082D6FE8E0D2332D4@win.louisiana.edu> Here's the real issue, Do we need it? As Tad asks/states. If that "we" includes the people here and "need" is an issue of utmost necessity, no. Would it help many to know it (even if they rarely use it consciously)? Probably. Should lit. students be exposed to it to realize an important tool poet use (and consciously use especially in work prior to free verse)? My colleagues vary on this, but I make even freshmen try to hear it and see it at work. I can scan as quickly as I can read or speak. I can't point to a way it helps me but I can't point to a way most techniques I've learned and practiced or the way most poets I've read directly affects my work. With some poets, I concede, it might even be detrimental. It could make them too self consciousness or bring them to think that there is a "correct way" to write or speak a line (especially if they are not trying to be neo-formalists). But it's a good question. (I think it's helpful.) (One I learned to read only the vowel sounds in lines--and can still do so . . . it's not very hard. Did that help or hurt? Back then when I was stuck on a line or phrasing, I used to listen just to the vowels. Did that help or hurt? I think I learned something. Why not learn everything we can about what we're doing?) -----Original Message----- From: new-poetry-bounces@wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto:new-poetry-bounces@wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of TheOldMole Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2008 3:53 PM To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Re: a dead ear for scansion I wonder if we need it. I think scansion serves best as a mechanism with a lot of play in it. Rsgwynn1@cs.com wrote: > In a message dated 7/23/2008 2:18:58 PM Central Daylight Time, > skip@louisiana.edu writes: >> But the trick is to hear the rhythmic swell behind our language, and >> EVERYTHING scans. (There are, of course, variant lines, and many >> books even note that all stresses are not the same in intensity, >> etc., but basically everything in our language scans.) >> >> >> > > One thing that prosody/scansion never touches is the difference > between long and short vowel sounds in English, the different "pitch" > that syllables can have in speaking, the difference in pace between > monosyllables and polysyllables in a line of verse. Accent may be the > primary component of rhythm and meter, but it surely isn't the only > one. Unfortunately we really don't have any good way to "scan" these > other variables. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ The moral is this: in American verse, The better you are, the pay is worse. --Corey Ford _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From Opus40-01 at opus40.org Wed Jul 23 17:28:43 2008 From: Opus40-01 at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:36 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: a dead ear for scansion In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4887A28B.6010806@opus40.org> Abridged dictionary guide - / itt /e / u / u Skip Fox wrote: > > Scansion (/ u ) > > Scansion for two (/ u u /) > > Dictionary guide (/ u / u /) > > I?m not arguing with anything except to say that there is a > commonality to our reading much of the time. (Check the monitor on the > tape recorder.) There IS subjectivity to it, but as I tell students > (when they bring up the issue of subjectivity, often in terms of > grading), it is a lot less subjective than they might imagine. > > -----Original Message----- > *From:* new-poetry-bounces@wiz.cath.vt.edu > [mailto:new-poetry-bounces@wiz.cath.vt.edu] *On Behalf Of *Judy Prince > *Sent:* Wednesday, July 23, 2008 3:50 PM > *To:* NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &,Views > *Subject:* Re: [New-Poetry] Re: a dead ear for scansion > > hmmmmm.....it might be more like this, with poets and with non-poets, > as given in a birthday card: Three men are walking on the beach. One > says, "It's windy today!", the second man responds, "No, it's > Thursday!", and the third says, "So am I! Let's have a beer!" Inside > the card: "This birthday, surround yourself with friends who really > understand you!" > > 2008/7/23 Skip Fox >: > > You're right, we CAN read a line any way we want, but would we? With > most lines 95% of us (used to poetry, not dramatic) would read the > same stresses and unstresses. With maybe 20% of the lines there are > legitimate variants. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ The moral is this: in American verse, The better you are, the pay is worse. --Corey Ford From grahamd at ripon.edu Wed Jul 23 17:36:01 2008 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:36 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: a dead ear for scansion In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <591DDC18-0475-4825-8C93-842122FEBB13@ripon.edu> On Jul 23, 2008, at 4:13 PM, Rsgwynn1@cs.com wrote: > One thing that prosody/scansion never touches is the difference > between long and short vowel sounds in English, the different > "pitch" that syllables can have in speaking, the difference in pace > between monosyllables and polysyllables in a line of verse. Accent > may be the primary component of rhythm and meter, but it surely > isn't the only one. Unfortunately we really don't have any good > way to "scan" these other variables. -------------------- I remember Pinsky's book as being good on the pitch of vowels--not scanning them, but explaining how they affect rhythm and tone. With examples. Nims's *Western Wind* also takes proper account of the variables beyond pure stress. ======================================== David Graham grahamd@ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.mac.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080723/b65394bd/attachment.html From Opus40-01 at opus40.org Wed Jul 23 17:41:46 2008 From: Opus40-01 at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:36 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: a dead ear for scansion In-Reply-To: <440EFE25A808495082D6FE8E0D2332D4@win.louisiana.edu> References: <440EFE25A808495082D6FE8E0D2332D4@win.louisiana.edu> Message-ID: <4887A59A.1000301@opus40.org> I didn't mean Do we need scansion? -- I think we do. I just meant that I have no problem with it as a flexible tool. I don't think we need a Henry Higgins-like system of notation for every variation of pitch or stress. Skip Fox wrote: > Here's the real issue, Do we need it? As Tad asks/states. > > If that "we" includes the people here and "need" is an issue of utmost > necessity, no. Would it help many to know it (even if they rarely use it > consciously)? Probably. Should lit. students be exposed to it to realize an > important tool poet use (and consciously use especially in work prior to > free verse)? My colleagues vary on this, but I make even freshmen try to > hear it and see it at work. > > I can scan as quickly as I can read or speak. I can't point to a way it > helps me but I can't point to a way most techniques I've learned and > practiced or the way most poets I've read directly affects my work. > > With some poets, I concede, it might even be detrimental. It could make them > too self consciousness or bring them to think that there is a "correct way" > to write or speak a line (especially if they are not trying to be > neo-formalists). > > But it's a good question. (I think it's helpful.) > > (One I learned to read only the vowel sounds in lines--and can still do so . > . . it's not very hard. Did that help or hurt? Back then when I was stuck on > a line or phrasing, I used to listen just to the vowels. Did that help or > hurt? I think I learned something. Why not learn everything we can about > what we're doing?) > > -----Original Message----- > From: new-poetry-bounces@wiz.cath.vt.edu > [mailto:new-poetry-bounces@wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of TheOldMole > Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2008 3:53 PM > To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Re: a dead ear for scansion > > I wonder if we need it. I think scansion serves best as a mechanism with > a lot of play in it. > > Rsgwynn1@cs.com wrote: > >> In a message dated 7/23/2008 2:18:58 PM Central Daylight Time, >> skip@louisiana.edu writes: >> >>> But the trick is to hear the rhythmic swell behind our language, and >>> EVERYTHING scans. (There are, of course, variant lines, and many >>> books even note that all stresses are not the same in intensity, >>> etc., but basically everything in our language scans.) >>> >>> >>> >>> >> One thing that prosody/scansion never touches is the difference >> between long and short vowel sounds in English, the different "pitch" >> that syllables can have in speaking, the difference in pace between >> monosyllables and polysyllables in a line of verse. Accent may be the >> primary component of rhythm and meter, but it surely isn't the only >> one. Unfortunately we really don't have any good way to "scan" these >> other variables. >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> > > -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ The moral is this: in American verse, The better you are, the pay is worse. --Corey Ford From jbalizsprince at googlemail.com Wed Jul 23 18:17:56 2008 From: jbalizsprince at googlemail.com (Judy Prince) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:36 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: a dead ear for scansion In-Reply-To: References: <7db1d01b0807231350h52bc0e3pbc98aa7dd7b6c20@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7db1d01b0807231517w5522e953wd6f7b62b028429f4@mail.gmail.com> 2008/7/23 Skip Fox : > (when they bring up the issue of subjectivity, often in terms of > grading) > > A student will say "I earned an 'A' ", "I got a 'C' ", "She gave me a > 'D' ", "He flunked me". > > -----Original Message----- > *From:* new-poetry-bounces@wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto: > new-poetry-bounces@wiz.cath.vt.edu] *On Behalf Of *Judy Prince > *Sent:* Wednesday, July 23, 2008 3:50 PM > *To:* NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &,Views > *Subject:* Re: [New-Poetry] Re: a dead ear for scansion > > > > hmmmmm.....it might be more like this, with poets and with non-poets, as > given in a birthday card: Three men are walking on the beach. One says, > "It's windy today!", the second man responds, "No, it's Thursday!", and the > third says, "So am I! Let's have a beer!" Inside the card: "This > birthday, surround yourself with friends who really understand you!" > > > > 2008/7/23 Skip Fox : > > You're right, we CAN read a line any way we want, but would we? With most > lines 95% of us (used to poetry, not dramatic) would read the same stresses > and unstresses. With maybe 20% of the lines there are legitimate variants. > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080723/d7c8746a/attachment.html From halvard at gmail.com Wed Jul 23 18:24:15 2008 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:36 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Sonnet: Milwaukee, City of Rumors In-Reply-To: <4887802D.6040207@opus40.org> References: <4887802D.6040207@opus40.org> Message-ID: Thanks, Tad. On Wed, Jul 23, 2008 at 2:02 PM, TheOldMole wrote: > Creepy. I like it. > > Halvard Johnson wrote: > >> Sonnet: Milwaukee, City of Rumors >> >> Running down rumors along Milwaukee's dark, >> Brucknerian boulevards, streets, and alleys, >> in the urban half-light of America, half-hoping >> to find some truth in them: the rumors, say, that >> the Brewers will move to Havana, taking all of >> the city with them. Ah, the sunlight, the salt >> sea air. But no, that one evaporates as soon as >> one catches up to it, leaving the others, the one >> that very late at night, just before dawn in fact, >> early morning joggers by the lake can see Ed Gein >> walking the beach, something round and wrapped >> in newspaper beneath his arm, looking for a waste >> basket empty enough to receive it, the one that >> Lake Michigan will be rebaptized Lake Wisconsin. >> >> >> >> Hal >> >> Halvard Johnson >> ================ >> halvard@gmail.com >> halvard@earthlink.net >> http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard < >> http://home.earthlink.net/%7Ehalvard> >> http://entropyandme.blogspot.com >> http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com >> http://www.hamiltonstone.org >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > > -- > Tad Richards > http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ > http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ > > The moral is this: in American verse, > The better you are, the pay is worse. > --Corey Ford > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Halvard Johnson ================ halvard@gmail.com halvard@earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080723/afecf666/attachment.html From cervantes.james at gmail.com Wed Jul 23 18:26:16 2008 From: cervantes.james at gmail.com (James Cervantes) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:36 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: a dead ear for scansion In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <648208b60807231526j7d06dbd5ofb6d393c03c2c10f@mail.gmail.com> On Wed, Jul 23, 2008 at 3:19 PM, wrote: > In a message dated 7/23/2008 2:42:09 PM Central Daylight Time, > skip@louisiana.edu writes: > > > > Stressing is different with different readers, though basically the same. > If we were reading > > > > "An aged man is but a paltry thing " > > > > with "aged" being 2 syllables, a dramatic interpretation might stress "is" > in a performance, but a normal reading would not. Try it aloud. Still abnormal. The only reason to stress "is" would be in the context of an argument. In "normal-speak" the rhymical AND rhetorical accent falls on "thing." -- Jim ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning http://www.fieralingue.it/documenti/mr_bondo.pdf http://www.poetserv.org/jvc/home/index.html http://home.earthlink.net/~jvcervantes/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/12364573@N08/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080723/4199ec32/attachment.html From Opus40-01 at opus40.org Wed Jul 23 18:38:06 2008 From: Opus40-01 at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:36 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Sonnet: Milwaukee, City of Rumors In-Reply-To: References: <4887802D.6040207@opus40.org> Message-ID: <4887B2CE.2040207@opus40.org> Hard to resist a good Ed Gein sonnet. Halvard Johnson wrote: > Thanks, Tad. > > On Wed, Jul 23, 2008 at 2:02 PM, TheOldMole > wrote: > > Creepy. I like it. > > Halvard Johnson wrote: > > Sonnet: Milwaukee, City of Rumors > > Running down rumors along Milwaukee's dark, > Brucknerian boulevards, streets, and alleys, > in the urban half-light of America, half-hoping > to find some truth in them: the rumors, say, that > the Brewers will move to Havana, taking all of > the city with them. Ah, the sunlight, the salt > sea air. But no, that one evaporates as soon as > one catches up to it, leaving the others, the one > that very late at night, just before dawn in fact, > early morning joggers by the lake can see Ed Gein > walking the beach, something round and wrapped > in newspaper beneath his arm, looking for a waste > basket empty enough to receive it, the one that > Lake Michigan will be rebaptized Lake Wisconsin. > > > > Hal > > Halvard Johnson > ================ > halvard@gmail.com > > > halvard@earthlink.net > > > http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard > > > > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > http://www.hamiltonstone.org > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > -- > Tad Richards > http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ > http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ > > The moral is this: in American verse, > The better you are, the pay is worse. > --Corey Ford > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > -- > > Halvard Johnson > ================ > halvard@gmail.com > halvard@earthlink.net > http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > http://www.hamiltonstone.org > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ The moral is this: in American verse, The better you are, the pay is worse. --Corey Ford From Rsgwynn1 at cs.com Wed Jul 23 19:10:50 2008 From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com (Rsgwynn1@cs.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:36 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: a dead ear for scansion Message-ID: In a message dated 7/23/2008 3:30:46 PM Central Daylight Time, skip@louisiana.edu writes: > > > (But, seriously, if you can do this (and anybody can), scansion is simple. > . . And I?m not counting Bok. He?s a performer of his work in a very staged > and polished, his visual presentation as well as his vocal delivery. It, > too, scans, but it is difficult to do so due to his fast paced, staccato > delivery.) > > > I've heard him and it's very beautiful. But every language has its own rhythmic identity and, thus, its own "rules" for meter. French, for example, vs. English. No stresses in French. Thus, I can't hear the "music" in French poetry the way a native speaker can. My brother makes African drums and teaches drumming. He's into a whole different cultural approach to rhythm, but it's closer to our own than, say, French or Chinese. These are rhythms that I can hear. http://www.wncmagazine.com/feature2.html -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080723/a9f43b3c/attachment.html From Rsgwynn1 at cs.com Wed Jul 23 19:20:04 2008 From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com (Rsgwynn1@cs.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:36 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: a dead ear for scansion Message-ID: In a message dated 7/23/2008 3:39:34 PM Central Daylight Time, skip@louisiana.edu writes: > > You?re right, we CAN read a line any way we want, but would we? With most > lines 95% of us (used to poetry, not dramatic) would read the same stresses and > unstresses. With maybe 20% of the lines there are legitimate variants. > > > > By the way, in the example you gave, ?to? could even be emphasized. > (Someone is writing down what she is told by the first person who has her at > gunpoint?ransom note or other craziness?and the first person object to what she > wrote: ?I said he gave you cash TO pay our bills, not FOR paying them.?) But > that?s an odd sentence. > > > I agree. The one thing about meter is that occasionally it tells us how to read a line without any typographical embellishments. For example, the 7th line of Shakespeare's sonnet 130 metrically shows us that he pronounced "perfumes" backwards from the way that Americans usually would say the word. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080723/b9f2a802/attachment.html From Rsgwynn1 at cs.com Wed Jul 23 19:23:43 2008 From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com (Rsgwynn1@cs.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:36 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: a dead ear for scansion Message-ID: In a message dated 7/23/2008 3:46:37 PM Central Daylight Time, skip@louisiana.edu writes: > Are there line we can only scan one way (that is, reasonably)? > > > > ?The boundary line for one, the furniture of none.? > > > I don't think there is a single way, but I would assume that a poet who knew his/her meters would count "boundary" as two syllables here, instead of three. I usually tell my students there are certain syllables that are "toss-ups." How would you scan the first two syllables of Frost's "To a Moth Seen in Winter"? Iamb, trochee, spondee? All are possible, though I'd probably just go with iamb in the absence of any compelling reason to go against the iambic pattern of the rest of the poem. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080723/149a4915/attachment.html From Rsgwynn1 at cs.com Wed Jul 23 19:27:19 2008 From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com (Rsgwynn1@cs.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:36 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: a dead ear for scansion Message-ID: In a message dated 7/23/2008 3:56:20 PM Central Daylight Time, Opus40-01@opus40.org writes: > > One line I give students in discussing the difference between long and > short vowel sounds is > > I met a traveler from an antique land > > and I ask them to consider how different the swing of the line would be > if it were > > I met a stranger from an ancient place That's largely a matter of diction, not scansion, since both lines would scan the same. "Trav'ler" is a common syncope. "Antique," being more French, forces a little more equality to the two syllables. "Ancient" is not going to be pronounced as three syllables by anyone who isn't a Bette Davis impersonator. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080723/7f95cd92/attachment.html From jbalizsprince at googlemail.com Wed Jul 23 19:29:50 2008 From: jbalizsprince at googlemail.com (Judy Prince) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:37 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: a dead ear for scansion In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7db1d01b0807231629h45955927va077e2d01a649136@mail.gmail.com> French does, of course, have stresses; they're simply different from English stresses. For example, ask a USAmerican to say "garage" and typically the response is (Judy Scansion system) OL, which's our imitating the French pronunciation. Ask an English person to say "garage", and the usual response is LO (sounding like GAIR-ij). And re the Chinese, when I've mentioned the difficulty English-speakers have adapting their "ears" and tongues to saying one of only four "tones" (stresses) for every Chinese word (read "syllable"), the Chinese exclaim: "But English has so many different stresses, and each person can put them in a different place! It's impossible for us to understand and imitate!" So it goes........communication is all. No, chronology is all. No, context is all. Another warm day in the south. 2008/7/23 : > In a message dated 7/23/2008 3:30:46 PM Central Daylight Time, > skip@louisiana.edu writes: > > > > (But, seriously, if you can do this (and anybody can), scansion is simple. > . . And I'm not counting Bok. He's a performer of his work in a very staged > and polished, his visual presentation as well as his vocal delivery. It, > too, scans, but it is difficult to do so due to his fast paced, staccato > delivery.) > > > > I've heard him and it's very beautiful. But every language has its own > rhythmic identity and, thus, its own "rules" for meter. French, for > example, vs. English. No stresses in French. Thus, I can't hear the > "music" in French poetry the way a native speaker can. > > My brother makes African drums and teaches drumming. He's into a whole > different cultural approach to rhythm, but it's closer to our own than, say, > French or Chinese. These are rhythms that I can *hear*. > > http://www.wncmagazine.com/feature2.html > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080723/d9b6cb57/attachment.html From Rsgwynn1 at cs.com Wed Jul 23 19:32:23 2008 From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com (Rsgwynn1@cs.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:37 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: a dead ear for scansion Message-ID: In a message dated 7/23/2008 4:42:13 PM Central Daylight Time, Opus40-01@opus40.org writes: > > I didn't mean Do we need scansion? -- I think we do. I just meant that I > have no problem with it as a flexible tool. I don't think we need a > Henry Higgins-like system of notation for every variation of pitch or > stress. After working on metrical substitution (and graphical scansion) of a Frost poet today, I asked the students which would be the best I5 line to describe the situation of a small boat in the middle of the hurricane: The wind arose and beat the tattered sail. Rising, the wind beat on the tattered sail. One of the functions of the best use of meter is to use variation effectively. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080723/9652454f/attachment.html From Rsgwynn1 at cs.com Wed Jul 23 19:40:14 2008 From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com (Rsgwynn1@cs.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:37 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: a dead ear for scansion Message-ID: In a message dated 7/23/2008 6:30:03 PM Central Daylight Time, jbalizsprince@googlemail.com writes: > > > French does, of course, have stresses; they're simply different from English > stresses. For example, ask a USAmerican to say "garage" and typically the > response is (Judy Scansion system) OL, which's our imitating the French > pronunciation. Ask an English person to say "garage", and the usual response is LO > (sounding like GAIR-ij). > > Fry addresses this pretty well in The Road Less Travelled. He says that Americans would undoubted say garAGE, just as they'd say garBAGE (if they wanted to sound French). But the French would probably sneer at both Americans and Brits in their attempt to imitage the "levelness" of French. Americans would overcorrect by saying "valEY." Brits would be Brits by saying "VALet." The French would say, "valet." -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080723/922d0605/attachment.html From jbalizsprince at googlemail.com Wed Jul 23 19:49:54 2008 From: jbalizsprince at googlemail.com (Judy Prince) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:37 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: a dead ear for scansion In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7db1d01b0807231649x71ee5921v277034d08a32f080@mail.gmail.com> Sounds like a "Hamilton Intervention" moment. If it weren't bedtime, nearing 1 in the morning in England, and Robin weren't, when awake, trying to suss cant language distinctions in England and America from 1500-1900, he'd be able to respond meaningfully to your ideas. I cannot, having insufficient grasp of the facts as well as the sociology you suggest. My feeling is that the kind of "foreign language" hyperurbanism you describe probably isn't the basis for the distinctions brought forward. But, doubtless, Robin and others could help out here. 2008/7/23 : > In a message dated 7/23/2008 6:30:03 PM Central Daylight Time, > jbalizsprince@googlemail.com writes: > > > > French does, of course, have stresses; they're simply different from > English stresses. For example, ask a USAmerican to say "garage" and > typically the response is (Judy Scansion system) OL, which's our imitating > the French pronunciation. Ask an English person to say "garage", and the > usual response is LO (sounding like GAIR-ij). > > > Fry addresses this pretty well in *The Road Less Travelled*. He says that > Americans would undoubted say garAGE*, *just as they'd say garBAGE (if > they wanted to sound French). But the French would probably sneer at both > Americans and Brits in their attempt to imitage the "levelness" of French. > Americans would overcorrect by saying "valEY." Brits would be Brits by > saying "VALe*t*." The French would say, "valet." > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080723/80947504/attachment.html From Opus40-01 at opus40.org Wed Jul 23 21:06:42 2008 From: Opus40-01 at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:37 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: a dead ear for scansion In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4887D5A2.5090006@opus40.org> My point exactly. They scan exactly the same, but the quality of the vowel sounds gives them a different feeling. Rsgwynn1@cs.com wrote: > In a message dated 7/23/2008 3:56:20 PM Central Daylight Time, > Opus40-01@opus40.org writes: >> >> One line I give students in discussing the difference between long and >> short vowel sounds is >> >> I met a traveler from an antique land >> >> and I ask them to consider how different the swing of the line would be >> if it were >> >> I met a stranger from an ancient place > > > That's largely a matter of diction, not scansion, since both lines > would scan the same. "Trav'ler" is a common syncope. "Antique," > being more French, forces a little more equality to the two > syllables. "Ancient" is not going to be pronounced as three syllables > by anyone who isn't a Bette Davis impersonator. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ The moral is this: in American verse, The better you are, the pay is worse. --Corey Ford From Opus40-01 at opus40.org Wed Jul 23 21:14:07 2008 From: Opus40-01 at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:37 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: a dead ear for scansion In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4887D75F.1090209@opus40.org> And the consonants, for that matter, with the second version beginning and ending the unit of A sounds. Rsgwynn1@cs.com wrote: > In a message dated 7/23/2008 3:56:20 PM Central Daylight Time, > Opus40-01@opus40.org writes: >> >> One line I give students in discussing the difference between long and >> short vowel sounds is >> >> I met a traveler from an antique land >> >> and I ask them to consider how different the swing of the line would be >> if it were >> >> I met a stranger from an ancient place > > > That's largely a matter of diction, not scansion, since both lines > would scan the same. "Trav'ler" is a common syncope. "Antique," > being more French, forces a little more equality to the two > syllables. "Ancient" is not going to be pronounced as three syllables > by anyone who isn't a Bette Davis impersonator. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ The moral is this: in American verse, The better you are, the pay is worse. --Corey Ford From jjeffreymail at yahoo.com Wed Jul 23 22:33:23 2008 From: jjeffreymail at yahoo.com (John Jeffrey) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:37 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: a dead ear for scansion Message-ID: <75688.93073.qm@web54109.mail.re2.yahoo.com> While no one agrees on the details (obvious in the 30 or so responses to your email), I don't think you need pinpoint specifics, especially if you're just trying to grasp the general idea. Leave the arguments over the true number of stress levels to the linguists. Don't over-think the thing like these professor-types. (No offense intended, professor-types). One thing's for sure, there's more than one way to skin a line, so read all the books mentioned and then read the books that those books might have mentioned; the more the merrier, because they'll all vary. Find what sounds right to you. And read poets like Poe and Longfellow, whose poems are easier to scan. Their lines bounce like superballs. Or think of music. If I hit middle C on the piano, I don't need to know that the sound rings out at a frequency of about 261 hertz. If I then follow that C with the D just above it, then I've created a musical iamb: u /, OL, do-RE. I play C-D, C-G, D-F, C-E, B-C and smile. Iambic pentameter! But not perfect. (And to those who know, that B is a B3. All the others are x4.) Oh sure, some will start to mumble about levels of stress: "But the G is higher than the E..." and so on. Don't listen to them, listen to the sound of the line: u / u / u / u / u / or OL OL OL OL OL or, to quote Dorothy, "Because, because, because, because, beCAUSE!" So say I. Weary and to bed now, John Jeffrey ----- Original Message ---- From: Chris Lott To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &, Views" Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2008 2:41:42 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Re: a dead ear for scansion Between OOL-LO-LO and quantum theory as solutions to my prosody deficiency, I'm not sure whether to laugh or cry! c _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080723/cfbba51c/attachment.html From jjeffreymail at yahoo.com Wed Jul 23 22:40:03 2008 From: jjeffreymail at yahoo.com (John Jeffrey) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:37 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: a dead ear for scansion Message-ID: <701813.86593.qm@web54107.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Going Mad in Meter I wrote iamb and found it?s not iambic after all. And while trochee is trochaic, seems trochaic is iambic with an extra little tag tagging along. Dactylic the word anapest, not dactyl anapestic, and a spondee?s not a spondee, and a pyrrhic's not a pyrrhic? Free verse is looking better all the time. ----- Original Message ---- From: John Jeffrey To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views" Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2008 10:33:23 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Re: a dead ear for scansion While no one agrees on the details (obvious in the 30 or so responses to your email), I don't think you need pinpoint specifics, especially if you're just trying to grasp the general idea. Leave the arguments over the true number of stress levels to the linguists. Don't over-think the thing like these professor-types. (No offense intended, professor-types). One thing's for sure, there's more than one way to skin a line, so read all the books mentioned and then read the books that those books might have mentioned; the more the merrier, because they'll all vary. Find what sounds right to you. And read poets like Poe and Longfellow, whose poems are easier to scan. Their lines bounce like superballs. Or think of music. If I hit middle C on the piano, I don't need to know that the sound rings out at a frequency of about 261 hertz. If I then follow that C with the D just above it, then I've created a musical iamb: u /, OL, do-RE. I play C-D, C-G, D-F, C-E, B-C and smile. Iambic pentameter! But not perfect. (And to those who know, that B is a B3. All the others are x4.) Oh sure, some will start to mumble about levels of stress: "But the G is higher than the E..." and so on. Don't listen to them, listen to the sound of the line: u / u / u / u / u / or OL OL OL OL OL or, to quote Dorothy, "Because, because, because, because, beCAUSE!" So say I. Weary and to bed now, John Jeffrey ----- Original Message ---- From: Chris Lott To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &, Views" Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2008 2:41:42 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Re: a dead ear for scansion Between OOL-LO-LO and quantum theory as solutions to my prosody deficiency, I'm not sure whether to laugh or cry! c _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080723/229cd8d9/attachment.html From jbalizsprince at googlemail.com Wed Jul 23 22:54:00 2008 From: jbalizsprince at googlemail.com (Judy Prince) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:37 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: a dead ear for scansion In-Reply-To: <701813.86593.qm@web54107.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <701813.86593.qm@web54107.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <7db1d01b0807231954h3d2699e2g84c851470dc5b1c7@mail.gmail.com> Lovely, John. Giving Tom Lehrer a run for his money, are you, then? Got anything on YouTube yet? 2008/7/23 John Jeffrey : > Going Mad in Meter > > I wrote iamb and found it's not iambic after all. > And while trochee is trochaic, seems trochaic is iambic > with an extra little tag tagging along. > Dactylic the word anapest, not dactyl anapestic, > and a spondee's not a spondee, and a pyrrhic's not a pyrrhic? > Free verse is looking better all the time. > > > > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: John Jeffrey > To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views" < > new-poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu> > Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2008 10:33:23 PM > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Re: a dead ear for scansion > > While no one agrees on the details (obvious in the 30 or so responses to > your email), I don't think you need pinpoint specifics, especially if you're > just trying to grasp the general idea. Leave the arguments over the true > number of stress levels to the linguists. Don't over-think the thing like > these professor-types. (No offense intended, professor-types). One thing's > for sure, there's more than one way to skin a line, so read all the books > mentioned and then read the books that those books might have mentioned; the > more the merrier, because they'll all vary. Find what sounds right to you. > And read poets like Poe and Longfellow, whose poems are easier to scan. > Their lines bounce like superballs. > > Or think of music. If I hit middle C on the piano, I don't need to know > that the sound rings out at a frequency of about 261 hertz. If I then > follow that C with the D just above it, then I've created a musical iamb: u > /, OL, do-RE. I play C-D, C-G, D-F, C-E, B-C and smile. Iambic > pentameter! But not perfect. (And to those who know, that B is a B3. All > the others are x4.) Oh sure, some will start to mumble about levels of > stress: "But the G is higher than the E..." and so on. Don't listen to > them, listen to the sound of the line: u / u / u / u / u / or OL OL OL OL > OL or, to quote Dorothy, "Because, because, because, because, beCAUSE!" > > So say I. Weary and to bed now, > > John Jeffrey > > > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: Chris Lott > To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &, Views" < > new-poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu> > Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2008 2:41:42 PM > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Re: a dead ear for scansion > > Between OOL-LO-LO and quantum theory as solutions to my prosody > deficiency, I'm not sure whether to laugh or cry! > > c > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080723/47b13f63/attachment.html From jbalizsprince at googlemail.com Wed Jul 23 23:38:40 2008 From: jbalizsprince at googlemail.com (Judy Prince) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:37 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] from San Miguel de Allende, Mexico In-Reply-To: <648208b60807221638l7d11d20bhe005e2c768affb12@mail.gmail.com> References: <5170D71359FC4D07B1F6AE8EC746D983@win.louisiana.edu> <6F5A5F32BDB34605AB631AAD60BEF5F8@AnnyPC> <7db1d01b0807220425o310c9ea2sdd87ea02769cdb88@mail.gmail.com> <7db1d01b0807221102i6ec1532dr1be16a0ac789265a@mail.gmail.com> <648208b60807221638l7d11d20bhe005e2c768affb12@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7db1d01b0807232038t2ed56e9dg2652ecd0853259b5@mail.gmail.com> Thanks, indeed, Jim. I especially enjoyed your spouts, Jhon Deeree, and Crash! And I suspect that DintyMoore's a legend in photo circles, a humane aesthetic genius. Loved his Bee-Hinds and Once You Go Big (You Never Go Back). As a theatre critic once said about finding an Original playwright: "I'd follow him to the ends of the earth"---I rather think I'd follow DintyMoore. 2008/7/22 James Cervantes : > > > On Tue, Jul 22, 2008 at 1:02 PM, Judy Prince > wrote: > >> Honestly, Anny, I was flabbergasted by the consistent beauty and >> naturalness (people-wise) of those photos. Professional photogs say that >> the difference between a professional and an amateur is the number of photos >> that a professional throws away. At the most, maybe 10 out of ALL of yours >> I might consider tossing. What a joy to see the small beautifully coloured >> buildings in the towns as well as the huge cathedral-like buildings, inside >> and out. I'm still wondering how you managed to get such perfect shots of >> the artifacts inside the museum. Did you carry a tripod and flash bar? How >> else could you get such illumination? At the very least, as if your photos >> as an entire group were an "interests" test (Meyers-Briggs?), I found that I >> most love interior design, having settled on ONE special favourite: #0112. >> What kind of building was it in? And what city? >> Your only error in judgment was that you didn't hand your camera to a >> friend and ask her or him to photograph YOU! >> > > Actually, there's a photo of Anny at Dinty Moore's site: > http://www.flickr.com/photos/dinty/ > > There's also one at my flickr site: link below > > -- Jim > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org > http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning > http://www.fieralingue.it/documenti/mr_bondo.pdf > http://www.poetserv.org/jvc/home/index.html > http://home.earthlink.net/~jvcervantes/ > http://www.flickr.com/photos/12364573@N08/ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080723/8fbbaf10/attachment.html From Rsgwynn1 at cs.com Thu Jul 24 00:12:10 2008 From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com (Rsgwynn1@cs.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:37 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: a dead ear for scansion Message-ID: In a message dated 7/23/2008 8:07:08 PM Central Daylight Time, Opus40-01@opus40.org writes: > > My point exactly. They scan exactly the same, but the quality of the > vowel sounds gives them a different feeling. > Of course. The difference between a poet and a versifier. Not everybody has an ear. Which is not to say that Shelley may have written the inferior version the first time and then revised it for the better sound. In the end the proof is in the pudding, not in the recipe. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080724/94205377/attachment.html From Rsgwynn1 at cs.com Thu Jul 24 00:19:14 2008 From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com (Rsgwynn1@cs.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:37 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: a dead ear for scansion Message-ID: In a message dated 7/23/2008 9:33:47 PM Central Daylight Time, jjeffreymail@yahoo.com writes: > While no one agrees on the details (obvious in the 30 or so responses to > your email), I don't think you need pinpoint specifics, especially if you're > just trying to grasp the general idea. Leave the arguments over the true > number of stress levels to the linguists. Don't over-think the thing like these > professor-types. (No offense intended, professor-types). One thing's for > sure, there's more than one way to skin a line, so read all the books mentioned > and then read the books that those books might have mentioned; the more the > merrier, because they'll all vary. Find what sounds right to you. And read > poets like Poe and Longfellow, whose poems are easier to scan. Their lines > bounce like superballs. > > In my experience the "professor-types" are the ones most likely to get it wrong. Even Fussell, who is pretty good for the most part, makes some blunders, and I could cite some others if called to. Poets, who know this stuff from the ground up, are better able to get it right, and actors, if they're any good, have a good take on it as well. One of the best books I know on iambic pentameter is Shakespeare Sounded Soundly by Delbert Spain. The repetition of "sound" in the title should tell you where he's coming from. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080724/c4f51797/attachment.html From Rsgwynn1 at cs.com Thu Jul 24 00:21:03 2008 From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com (Rsgwynn1@cs.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:38 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: a dead ear for scansion Message-ID: In a message dated 7/23/2008 9:40:23 PM Central Daylight Time, jjeffreymail@yahoo.com writes: > Going Mad in Meter > > I wrote iamband found it?s not iambic after all. > And while trocheeis trochaic, seems trochaicis iambic > with an extra little tag tagging along. > Dactylic the word anapest, not dactylanapestic, > and a spondee?s not a spondee, and a pyrrhic's not a pyrrhic? > Free verse is looking better all the time. > > > Congratulations on having discovered the joy of dipodic meters! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080724/17e07872/attachment.html From skip at louisiana.edu Thu Jul 24 11:45:24 2008 From: skip at louisiana.edu (Skip Fox) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:38 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: a dead ear for scansion In-Reply-To: <75688.93073.qm@web54109.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <7906E3E29598483FAC2DB5DC38781BEB@win.louisiana.edu> I have loved the responses to this thread. Even when I disagree. But mostly the discussions of how other vocal elements in the lines/syllables (like durative measure or pitch) are overlooked. Which leads one to think of the richness and delicacy of the interactions of multiple word values that poets call forth in all their best phrasings. Symphonic! Which leads one to wonder how conscious a good poet is of these matters when he or she is writing. I'd argue that being very directly (left- or forward-brain conscious) would make the task seem insurmountable, like playing 5-dimentional chess. Which leads me to the question (Tad's?) of whether we need it or not. (I argued that it might help if consumed by the poet and not later applied like a mechanical engineer might, unless one is into neo-formalism and can't hear the beats without the aid of the thumbs or whatever. Well, that's what I should have argued.) Which brings me back to where I jumped in arguing for the EAR over books. Not that books can't point or help realize nuances. But that we all really hear these stresses anyway and poets should learn to know how to listen. Not knocking the wisdom of elders and wisers, it seems to me that the foundation is best recognized (as though previously known) in the self. And this, for me, would go for sound, idea, next choice for word or meal, companion, appraisal of others, etc. I'd sure listen to others, but finally (and I hope fairly) sound the matter on (in?) the self. As Robert Duncan wrote, we must first be the authors of our own authority. Very romantic, I know, but there it is. Sorry if I seemed dogmatic on this. As a young man I wrote hundreds of pieces that scanned and maybe learned something from that (people say one must learn the rules before breaking them, but I'm not so sure), but I don't care that much about scansion these days except to show a class how to do it (quick and dirty-I'll probably bring up some of the issues raised here about stress's interaction with other aural elements for upper-division and graduate students). But this is an issue which ties into my fear that we too easily abdicate the responsibility for seeing with ourselves, and one way of doing so is (we are book lovers, after all) giving books priority over what we see or think, maybe to the point for some that it is hard to see or think anymore. My too/two sense/cents. :) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080724/ffd6424c/attachment.html From Rsgwynn1 at cs.com Thu Jul 24 12:06:02 2008 From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com (Rsgwynn1@cs.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:38 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: a dead ear for scansion Message-ID: In a message dated 7/24/2008 10:45:06 AM Central Daylight Time, skip@louisiana.edu writes: > > I have loved the responses to this thread. Even when I disagree. But mostly > the discussions of how other vocal elements in the lines/syllables (like > durative measure or pitch) are overlooked. Which leads one to think of the > richness and delicacy of the interactions of multiple word values that poets call > forth in all their best phrasings. Symphonic! Which leads one to wonder how > conscious a good poet is of these matters when he or she is writing. I?d argue > that being very directly (left- or forward-brain conscious) would make the > task seem insurmountable, like playing 5-dimentional chess. > > > That's why I don't write anymore. I compose orally first, then write down what I've said. Do a lot these days while driving with a mini-recorder. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080724/87d08a79/attachment.html From grahamd at ripon.edu Thu Jul 24 12:20:23 2008 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:38 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] we murder to deflect In-Reply-To: <7906E3E29598483FAC2DB5DC38781BEB@win.louisiana.edu> References: <7906E3E29598483FAC2DB5DC38781BEB@win.louisiana.edu> Message-ID: Some scattered musings, not directed "against" anyone else's. I confess that I was the newly-minted holder of an MFA in poetry before it occurred to me that I knew almost nothing about traditional prosody. Though I'd written in traditional forms as exercises along the way, I'd really never dug deep and learned the basics. So I set about on a personal project of reading up, devouring many books on prosody and fairly diligently practicing things in my journal. Among the things I learned: I am not by nature a formalist, and have no great skill in rhyming, in particular. But the training was invaluable, and I'm convinced that my free verse gained immensely in fluency and craft due to my apprenticeship. I had always written by ear, and my ear was only sharpened by the practice. Anyone who maintains that analysis kills inspiration is deluded, I think; if it *can* be killed thereby, it's not much as inspiration. I love the little diagram that Nims included in *Western Wind*, of a bird with all the parts labelled. No actual bird was harmed by this drawing, he points out, and knowing what pinfeathers are just might make you a better observer of the next real bird you see. . . . "We murder to dissect" is a nice line but faulty analogy. Anyway, in typical fashion I got obsessed with prosody & traditional forms. For five years almost everything in my journal I cast in some kind of form, often syllabics. Things got loosened up by the time poems were finished or published, frequently. But I wrote reams and reams of pentameter especially, trying to learn the moves. My reading in Fussell & other texts eventually convinced me that prosody in general and scansion in particular are just as contested as other aspects of poetics, and that experts routinely disagree about even the most fundamental things. So I tend not the enter the fray, myself. It's against my religion to contest how others scan individual lines and phrases. But this does not mean it is useless to study the tradition as well as traditional descriptions of what poets have been up to. When I teach my course Poetry Aloud I always start with the ear. We memorize & recite a short poem together before we do anything else. Interestingly, you can tell immediately tell who has a natural ear and who doesn't. Some find it very difficult to hear even the basics of stress, I've found. When I write the word "content" on the board and pronounce it as CONtent, then as conTENT, there are always a few who cannot easily tell the difference. My own experience suggests that, even if you start out that way, you don't need to end up so. ======================================== David Graham grahamd@ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.mac.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080724/fefe70f2/attachment.html From skip at louisiana.edu Thu Jul 24 12:28:11 2008 From: skip at louisiana.edu (Skip Fox) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:38 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: a dead ear for scansion In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I LOVE the idea of recorders, but the practice . . . . Well, I revise so much, saying No, scratch that, writing: exteriorizing the ulterior. Thinking: that's what I mean. Then changing my mind and writing: ulteriorizing the inferiors. Thinking: that's what I mean. Then changing my mind and. . . etc., etc. Then when I get in the office I've got to go through 15 preliminary phrasings before I get to the one I decided upon. Now I just write while I'm driving. (Yikes! . . . But it's true. I'm very careful of other drivers, have learned the priorities and how to do an open-handed scrawl without having to have my eyes on the page which I can later read. But it takes effort, so I don't write down every false start. I wait until I have it then move on. Besides, the entire thing is another little exercise in natural selection.) -----Original Message----- From: new-poetry-bounces@wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto:new-poetry-bounces@wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Rsgwynn1@cs.com Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2008 11:06 AM To: new-poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Re: a dead ear for scansion In a message dated 7/24/2008 10:45:06 AM Central Daylight Time, skip@louisiana.edu writes: I have loved the responses to this thread. Even when I disagree. But mostly the discussions of how other vocal elements in the lines/syllables (like durative measure or pitch) are overlooked. Which leads one to think of the richness and delicacy of the interactions of multiple word values that poets call forth in all their best phrasings. Symphonic! Which leads one to wonder how conscious a good poet is of these matters when he or she is writing. I'd argue that being very directly (left- or forward-brain conscious) would make the task seem insurmountable, like playing 5-dimentional chess. That's why I don't write anymore. I compose orally first, then write down what I've said. Do a lot these days while driving with a mini-recorder. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080724/d7577bbe/attachment.html From JforJames at aol.com Thu Jul 24 12:46:35 2008 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames@aol.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:38 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: a dead ear for scansion Message-ID: In a message dated 7/24/2008 12:06:33 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Rsgwynn1@cs.com writes: That's why I don't write anymore. I compose orally first, then write down what I've said. Do a lot these days while driving with a mini-recorder. That's good to know, When I see you swerving along some Texas highway, I'll know you're working on an ode, and I can keep a good distance. **************Get fantasy football with free live scoring. Sign up for FanHouse Fantasy Football today. (http://www.fanhouse.com/fantasyaffair?ncid=aolspr00050000000020) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080724/25b151ca/attachment.html From jbalizsprince at googlemail.com Thu Jul 24 13:08:52 2008 From: jbalizsprince at googlemail.com (Judy Prince) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:38 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] we murder to deflect In-Reply-To: References: <7906E3E29598483FAC2DB5DC38781BEB@win.louisiana.edu> Message-ID: <7db1d01b0807241008x3ec6da50xef201833905e9392@mail.gmail.com> David, All of this post of yours resonates sweetly with me. Let me just show the paragaph that is the Reese Cup (alas, is there any better combination than peanut butter and chocolate?) of them: 2008/7/24 David Graham : > > I had always written by ear, and my ear was only sharpened by the practice. > Anyone who maintains that analysis kills inspiration is deluded, I think; > if it *can* be killed thereby, it's not much as inspiration. I love the > little diagram that Nims included in *Western Wind*, of a bird with all the > parts labelled. No actual bird was harmed by this drawing, he points out, > and knowing what pinfeathers are just might make you a better observer of > the next real bird you see. . . . "We murder to dissect" is a nice line but > faulty analogy. > > Anyway, in typical fashion I got obsessed with prosody & traditional forms. > For five years almost everything in my journal I cast in some kind of form, > often syllabics. Things got loosened up by the time poems were finished or > published, frequently. But I wrote reams and reams of pentameter > especially, trying to learn the moves. > And re your last paragraph, given below my comment on it, next, my 6th grade teacher, Miss Gosling (who looked like her name!), using our first and last names to illustrate stressed and unstressed syllables, said, just before she'd bump her hand down on the desk when she spoke the stressed syllables: "Each sound in your name has a beat, like a beat of music." I still remember loving to repeat "TER ee van HI ni g'n" (Terry van Heynigen, the smiling son of a dairy owner). You wrote: > > When I teach my course Poetry Aloud I always start with the ear. We > memorize & recite a short poem together before we do anything else. > Interestingly, you can tell immediately tell who has a natural ear and who > doesn't. Some find it very difficult to hear even the basics of stress, > I've found. When I write the word "content" on the board and pronounce it > as CONtent, then as conTENT, there are always a few who cannot easily tell > the difference. My own experience suggests that, even if you start out that > way, you don't need to end up so. > > > > ======================================== > David Graham > grahamd@ripon.edu > > Home Page: > http://web.mac.com/drjazz > > Poetry Library: > http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html > ========================================== > > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080724/967aaf18/attachment.html From JforJames at aol.com Thu Jul 24 13:16:50 2008 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames@aol.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:38 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] How to Write With Style Message-ID: This might be of use to those who teach writing...nothing too original or strange, just some common sense advice by author of renown: _http://literature.sdsu.edu/onWRITING/vonnegutSTYLE.html_ (http://literature.sdsu.edu/onWRITING/vonnegutSTYLE.html) How to Write With Style by Kurt Vonnegut **************Get fantasy football with free live scoring. Sign up for FanHouse Fantasy Football today. (http://www.fanhouse.com/fantasyaffair?ncid=aolspr00050000000020) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080724/8e6f00fb/attachment.html From Opus40-01 at opus40.org Thu Jul 24 13:39:33 2008 From: Opus40-01 at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:38 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: a dead ear for scansion In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4888BE55.4070609@opus40.org> I've done driving-writing too. I could never use a recorder. The sound of my own voice messes up my thoughts. Skip Fox wrote: > > I LOVE the idea of recorders, but the practice . . . . Well, I revise > so much, saying No, scratch that, writing: exteriorizing the ulterior. > Thinking/: that?s/ what I mean. Then changing my mind and writing: > ulteriorizing the inferiors. Thinking/: that?s/ what I mean. Then > changing my mind and. . . etc., etc. Then when I get in the office > I?ve got to go through 15 preliminary phrasings before I get to the > one I decided upon. > > Now I just write /while/ I?m driving. (Yikes! . . . But it?s true. I?m > very careful of other drivers, have learned the priorities and how to > do an open-handed scrawl without having to have my eyes on the page > which I can later read. But it takes effort, so I don?t write down > every false start. I wait until I have it then move on. Besides, the > entire thing is another little exercise in natural selection.) > > -----Original Message----- > *From:* new-poetry-bounces@wiz.cath.vt.edu > [mailto:new-poetry-bounces@wiz.cath.vt.edu] *On Behalf Of *Rsgwynn1@cs.com > *Sent:* Thursday, July 24, 2008 11:06 AM > *To:* new-poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > *Subject:* Re: [New-Poetry] Re: a dead ear for scansion > > In a message dated 7/24/2008 10:45:06 AM Central Daylight Time, > skip@louisiana.edu writes: > > > I have loved the responses to this thread. Even when I disagree. But > mostly the discussions of how other vocal elements in the > lines/syllables (like durative measure or pitch) are overlooked. Which > leads one to think of the richness and delicacy of the interactions of > multiple word values that poets call forth in all their best > phrasings. Symphonic! Which leads one to wonder how conscious a good > poet is of these matters when he or she is writing. I?d argue that > being very directly (left- or forward-brain conscious) would make the > task seem insurmountable, like playing 5-dimentional chess. > > > That's why I don't /write/ anymore. I compose orally first, then write > down what I've said. Do a lot these days while driving with a > mini-recorder. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ The moral is this: in American verse, The better you are, the pay is worse. --Corey Ford From AlMaginnes at aol.com Thu Jul 24 14:05:53 2008 From: AlMaginnes at aol.com (AlMaginnes@aol.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:38 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: a dead ear for scansion Message-ID: I tried driving/ writing until the day I looked up and saw I was about to go head on with a cement truck. Now if it really bothers me, I'll pull over. **************Get fantasy football with free live scoring. Sign up for FanHouse Fantasy Football today. (http://www.fanhouse.com/fantasyaffair?ncid=aolspr00050000000020) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080724/329a68d9/attachment.html From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Thu Jul 24 16:53:05 2008 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:38 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: a dead ear for scansion In-Reply-To: <7906E3E29598483FAC2DB5DC38781BEB@win.louisiana.edu> References: <7906E3E29598483FAC2DB5DC38781BEB@win.louisiana.edu> Message-ID: <4888EBB1.1070402@nut-n-but.net> I suggest metrics as the study of the meter that a form imposes on a text, and "infra-meter" as the different weights speakers give the syllables. --Bob G. Skip Fox wrote: > > I have loved the responses to this thread. Even when I disagree. But > mostly the discussions of how other vocal elements in the > lines/syllables (like durative measure or pitch) are overlooked. Which > leads one to think of the richness and delicacy of the interactions of > multiple word values that poets call forth in all their best > phrasings. Symphonic! Which leads one to wonder how conscious a good > poet is of these matters when he or she is writing. I'd argue that > being very directly (left- or forward-brain conscious) would make the > task seem insurmountable, like playing 5-dimentional chess. > > > > Which leads me to the question (Tad's?) of whether we need it or not. > (I argued that it might help if consumed by the poet and not later > applied like a mechanical engineer might, unless one is into > neo-formalism and can't hear the beats without the aid of the thumbs > or whatever. Well, that's what I /should/ have argued.) > > > > Which brings me back to where I jumped in arguing for the EAR over > books. Not that books can't point or help realize nuances. But that we > all really hear these stresses anyway and poets should learn to know > how to listen. Not knocking the wisdom of elders and wisers, it seems > to me that the foundation is best recognized (as though previously > known) in the self. And this, for me, would go for sound, idea, next > choice for word or meal, companion, appraisal of others, etc. I'd sure > listen to others, but finally (and I hope fairly) sound the matter on > (in?) the self. As Robert Duncan wrote, we must first be the authors > of our own authority. Very romantic, I know, but there it is. > > > > Sorry if I seemed dogmatic on this. As a young man I wrote hundreds of > pieces that scanned and maybe learned something from that (people say > one must learn the rules before breaking them, but I'm not so sure), > but I don't care that much about scansion these days except to show a > class how to do it (quick and dirty---I'll probably bring up some of > the issues raised here about stress's interaction with other aural > elements for upper-division and graduate students). But this is an > issue which ties into my fear that we too easily abdicate the > responsibility for seeing with ourselves, and one way of doing so is > (we are book lovers, after all) giving books priority over what we see > or think, maybe to the point for some that it is hard to see or think > anymore. > > > > My too/two sense/cents. :) > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080724/b1b25964/attachment.html From anny.ballardini at tin.it Thu Jul 24 16:41:14 2008 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:39 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] =?iso-8859-1?q?Fw=3A_eps_123=3A_gottfried_benn=3A_p?= =?iso-8859-1?q?roblemas_de_la_poes=EDa_l=EDrica_=28I=29?= Message-ID: ----- Original Message ----- From: elpoema seminal To: elpoemasem@yahoo.com.mx Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2008 10:02 PM Subject: eps 123: gottfried benn: problemas de la poes?a l?rica (I) n123 [30.06.08] elpoemaseminal gottfried benn: problemas de la poes?a l?rica (I) atisbos PROBLEMAS DE LA POES?A L?RICA (I) Gottfried Benn Versi?n y edici?n de Jos? Manuel Recillas Gottfried Benn fue un poeta y ensayista alem?n nacido en Mansfeld en 1886. Tom? cursos de filosof?a, poes?a y metodolog?a literaria, y finalmente termin? medicina en la Universidad de Marburg, alist?ndose como m?dico militar en la I Guerra Mundial. Sus publicaciones de entonces representaron fielmente el expresionismo alem?n, con obras como Hijos en 1913 y Carne en 1917. En la d?cada de los a?os cuarenta, desilusionado con el r?gimen nazi y marginado por el c?rculo literario de su pa?s, se refugi? en sus escritos produciendo calladamente una parte muy importante de su obra. En 1946 public? "Poemas est?ticos", siendo reconocido entonces como el m?s importante poeta vivo de Alemania. Con la publicaci?n de sus ?ltimas obras, Destillationen en 1951, Fragmente en 1953 y Apr?slude en 1955, culmin? su brillante trayectoria como poeta. Falleci? en Berl?n en julio de 1956. Jos? Manuel Recillas (1964) es un poeta, ensayista y traductor mexicano que se ha especializado en la obra de Benn, de quien ha traducido varios libros, entre ellos una antolog?a po?tica publicada por la UNAM en la colecci?n Material de lectura (2005). Otros autores que ha traducido son Walter Raleigh y Lafcadio Hearn. En la revista Esp?culo, de la Universidad Complutense de Madrid (www.ucm.es/info/especulo/numero33/gbenn.html) puede leerse su amplio ensayo "Gottfried Benn, breve historia de la recepci?n de su obra en lenguas romances". Es, adem?s, autor de los t?tulos La ventana y el balc?n (1992) y El sue?o del alquimista (1999). Agradecemos su gentileza para la presente publicaci?n. S e?ores y se?oras: Cuando el domingo por la ma?ana ustedes abren sus diarios, y a veces quiz? durante la semana se encuentran en un suplemento, casi siempre arriba a la derecha o abajo a la izquierda, algo que llama la atenci?n porque est? espaciado y alineado de manera especial: es un poema. Las m?s de las veces no se trata de un poema extenso y su tema aborda los problemas de la estaci?n, en oto?o lleva entretejidos en los versos las nieblas de noviembre, en primavera las flores de azafr?n son saludadas como portadoras de la luz, en verano se canta el prado pespunteado de amapolas bajo la nuca, en tiempo de fiestas religiosas se riman los temas del rito y de las leyendas1 -en una palabra, dada la regularidad con que se desarrolla este proceso, de un a?o a otro, previsible de una semana a la otra y siempre puntual, debe creerse que en cada ?poca toda una serie de personas en nuestra patria se sienta a hacer poemas que manda a diarios, y ?stos parecen convencidos de que el p?blico lector desea semejantes poemas, pues si no utilizar?an ese espacio a otros asuntos. En su mayor?a los nombres de estos productores de poemas son escasamente conocidos, y desaparecen de los suplementos; ser?n como me ha escrito el profesor Ernst Robert Curtius, con quien mantengo una amistosa correspondencia, cuando le recomend? a uno de sus estudiantes como muy avanzado: "Ah, estos jovencitos, son como los p?jaros, en primavera cantan y apenas aparece el verano, enmudecen". De este tipo de poemas de estaci?n y de ocasi?n no deseamos ocuparnos, aun cuando sea perfectamente posible que por azar uno halle entre ellos alguno bien escrito. Pero es desde aqu? que deseo partir, pues en tal fen?meno hay un trasfondo colectivo, y de hecho el p?blico vive a menudo con la idea: ya est?, he aqu? una pradera o un crep?sculo, he aqu? un joven o una se?orita en estado de ?nimo melanc?lico, y de esto nace un poema. No, as? no nacen los poemas. Un poema no nace espont?neamente - es el resultado de un proceso de composici?n.2 Si de una composici?n en rima se extrae lo que est? ligado al estado de ?nimo, lo que queda, admitiendo que algo quedase, eso tal vez ser?a un poema. He llamado a mi tema "Problemas de la poes?a l?rica", no problemas de la poes?a o de la po?tica. Y lo he hecho deliberadamente. Al concepto de poes?a l?rica se han asociado, desde hace algunos decenios, determinadas ideas. De qu? g?nero son, se los explicar? con una an?cdota. Una se?ora amiga m?a, periodista pol?tica muy conocida, me escribi? hace tiempo: "No s? c?mo reaccionar ante los poemas, y ante los l?ricos mucho menos a?n". Entonces, ella hac?a una distinci?n entre estos dos tipos. Yo sab?a que esta se?ora era una gran int?rprete de m?sica, principalmente de m?sica cl?sica. Le respond?: "La entiendo perfectamente, a m? por ejemplo Tosca me dice m?s que El arte de la fuga".3 Esto significa: de un lado el elemento emotivo, vinculado al estado de ?nimo, el elemento tem?tico-mel?dico, y del otro est? el producto art?stico. El nuevo poema, el l?rico, es un producto art?stico. Con esto se halla vinculada la idea de conciencia, de control cr?tico y, para utilizar una expresi?n peligrosa a la cual regresar?, la idea de artisticidad [Artistik].4 En la producci?n del poema no se observa s?lo la poes?a, sino tambi?n uno mismo. La producci?n del poema constituye en s? misma un tema, no el ?nico, pero en cierto sentido se hace sentir en todas partes. En este sentido, resulta particularmente significativo Val?ry, en quien la simultaneidad de la actividad po?tica y de la introspectivo-cr?tica alcanza al conf?n en que ambas se compenetran. ?l dice: "?Por qu? no se habr?a de concebir la producci?n de una obra de arte como obra de arte a su vez?". Aqu? tocamos una caracter?stica esencial del Yo l?rico moderno. En la literatura moderna hallamos ejemplos de autores en quienes la poes?a y el ensayo se hallan en el mismo nivel. Casi parecen condicionarse rec?procamente. Adem?s de Val?ry, mencionar? a Eliot, Mallarm?, Baudelaire, Ezra Pound, tambi?n Poe, y despu?s a los surrealistas. Estaban y est?n todos interesados tanto en el proceso del poetizar cuanto en la obra misma. Uno de ellos escribi?: "Lo confieso, estoy mucho m?s interesado en el proceso representativo o compositivo de las obras que en las obras mismas." Esto, ruego que se le vea, es un rasgo moderno. Que yo sepa ni Platen ni M?rike sab?an o cultivaron esta doble perspectiva, y tampoco Store o Dehmel, ni siquiera Swinburne o Keats. Los poetas l?ricos modernos nos ofrecen una filosof?a de la composici?n y una sistem?tica de la creaci?n. Y quisiera llamar la atenci?n inmediata sobre una particularidad ulterior, muy sorprendente: ninguno de los grandes novelistas de los ?ltimos cien a?os ha sido tampoco un poeta - prescindo, naturalmente, del autor del Werther y de las Afinidades electivas. Pero ni Tolstoi ni Flaubert, ni Balzac ni Dostoievsky, ni Hamsun ni Joseph Conrad escribieron alg?n poema digno de menci?n. Entre los m?s modernos James Joyce lo ha intentado, pero ?como escribe Thornton Wilder?: "Si se conoce la incomparable riqueza r?tmica de su prosa, uno queda estupefacto frente a sus versos, a su deste?ida musicalidad, a su tono hueco de ventr?locuo". Entonces, aqu? deben subsistir diferencias tipol?gicas fundamentales. Y queremos establecer inmediatamente cu?les son ?stas. Si de hecho los novelistas producen poemas, se trata principalmente de baladas, esbozos de acci?n, an?cdotas y similares. El novelista tiene necesidad para sus poemas tambi?n de argumentos, de temas. La palabra como tal no le basta. ?l busca motivos. La palabra no absorbe en s?, como en el poeta l?rico por naturaleza, el inmediato movimiento de su existencia; con la palabra el novelista describe. M?s adelante veremos cu?les fondos existenciales se hallan aqu? presentes o ausentes. La nueva poes?a l?rica tuvo su origen en Francia. Hasta ahora se ha visto en Mallarm? el centro del movimiento, pero por lo que he podido observar en publicaciones francesas recientes, quien ha pasado a ocupar el sitio de privilegio es G?rard de Nerval, quien muri? en 1855, conocido entre nosotros s?lo como traductor de Goethe, pero hoy considerado en Francia, en cuanto autor de las Chim?res, la fuente de la poes?a moderna. Tras ?l vino Baudelaire, muerto en 1867 - por lo tanto, ambos una generaci?n anterior a Mallarm? y destinados a influir sobre ?l. De cualquier modo Mallarm? permanece como el primero en desarrollar una teor?a y una definici?n de su poes?a y con ello inaugur? la fenomenolog?a de loa composici?n de la que he hablado. Otros nombres les resultan conocidos: Verlaine, Rimbaud, luego Val?ry, Apollinaire y los surrealistas, guiados por Breton y Aragon. Tal es la central del renacimiento l?rico que irradi? hacia Alemania y hacia el espacio anglo-americano. En Inglaterra Swinburne, que muri? en 1909, y William Morris, muerto en 1896, ambos contempor?neos de los grandes franceses, se deben adscribir entonces a la escuela rom?ntica ideal?stica; pero con Eliot, Auden, Henry Miller, Ezra Pound, el nuevo estilo entra en el ambiente anglo-atl?ntico, y desear?a recordar inmediatamente que en Estados Unidos se est? desarrollando un amplio movimiento l?rico. Quisiera agregar entonces algunos nombres: O.V. de L. Milosz, nacido en Lituania, muerto en Par?s en 1940; Saint-John Perse, franc?s, que vive en Estados Unidos. De Rusia se debe mencionar a Maiakovski, de Checoslovaquia Vitezsval Nezval, ambos antes que se volviesen bolcheviques y comenzasen a componer odas sobre el "peque?o padre" Stalin. De Alemania los famosos nombres de George, Rilke, Hoffmannsthal, pertenecen a este grupo, al menos dentro de ciertos l?mites. Sus m?s bellos poemas son expresi?n pura, consciente estructuraci?n "art?stica" al interior de la forma dada; empero su vida interna a?n permanece, subjetivamente y en sus corrientes emotivas, en esa noble esfera nacional y religiosa, en la esfera de los v?nculos v?lidos y de las concepciones unitarias que la poes?a l?rica de hoy casi ya no conoce. Despu?s llegaron Heym, Trakl, Werfel5 - los vanguardistas. El inicio de la poes?a l?rica expresionista en Alemania suele establecerse con el poema "Die D?mmerung" [Crep?sculo] de Alfred Lichtenstein, aparecido en Simplizissimus en 1911, y "Weltende" [Fin del mundo] de Jacob van Hoddis, aparecido en el mismo a?o.6 El advenimiento que sign? la fundaci?n del arte moderno en Europa fue la aparici?n del manifiesto futurista de Marinetti, publicado el 20 de febrero de 1909 en Par?s en Le Figaro. ? Nous allons assister ? la naissance du Centaure ? ?asistiremos al nacimiento del centauro? escrib?a, y: "Un autom?vil rugiente es m?s bello que la Victoria de Samotracia". ?stos eran los vanguardistas; empero, eran curiosamente tambi?n los realizadores. En fechas recientes cabe constatar entre nosotros ciertas tentativas editoriales y redaccionales que pretenden imponer en la poes?a l?rica una suerte de neo-experimentalismo, una suerte de dada?smo reincidente para el cual en un poema, por ejemplo, la palabra "eficaz" se encuentra tal vez diecis?is veces al inicio del verso, sin que siga nada que sea verdaderamente capaz de licitar alguna impresi?n, combinada con los ?ltimos sonidos de los pigmeos y de los habitantes de los Andemanes - todo esto deber?a resultar global, pero para quien tiene una visi?n panor?mica de cuarenta a?os de poes?a l?rica, tiene el efecto de una restauraci?n del m?todo de August Stramm y del c?rculo de Die Sturm,7 o de una repetici?n de los poemas publicados en la revista Merz por Schwitters ("Ana, eres por delante como por detr?s"). En Francia se afirma una corriente similar llamada Lettrisme. El nombre es explicado por su alf?rez en el sentido que la palabra debe ser purificada de cualquier valor extrapo?tico y que las letras puestas en libertad deben formar una unidad musical que puede valorar incluso el estertor, el eco, el chasquido de la lengua, el eructo, la tos o la carcajada. Qu? saldr? de todo esto, es algo que no puede saberse a?n. Algunas cosas tienen indudablemente un efecto rid?culo, pero no es del todo imposible que a trav?s de una sensibilidad verbal ulteriormente modificada, de autoan?lisis llevados m?s adelante y de teor?as que hagan brotar frutos originales en el campo de la cr?tica ling??stica, surja una nueva dicci?n l?rica, que, llegada a manos de alguno que sepa llenarla de su gran interioridad, pueda llevar a creaciones deslumbrantes. Sin embargo, por el momento se deber? afirmar que la poes?a occidental est? sostenida por una idea de la forma y que se configura en palabras, no en eructos y en toses. Quien se interese en la parte experimental pero todav?a seria de la poes?a l?rica moderna, lo enviamos a la revista Das Lot, de la cual han salido ya cinco fasc?culos, y al excelente libro de Alain Bosquet, Surrealismo - ambas publicaciones aparecieron en Berl?n por el editor Karl Henssel. Para definir la poes?a moderna he usado la expresi?n "artisticidad" [Artistik], y he dicho que es un concepto controvertido - de hecho en Alemania no es muy aceptado. El artista medio asocia a ?ste la idea de superficialidad, gaudium, musa ligera, tambi?n de juego y falta de cualquier trascendencia. En realidad es un concepto enormemente serio, un concepto fundamental. La "artisticidad" [Artistik] es la tentativa del arte de vivir ella misma como contenido, en la general decadencia de los contenidos, y de formar desde esta experiencia un estilo nuevo; es la tentativa de contraponer al nihilismo general de los valores una nueva trascendencia: la trascendencia del placer creativo. Visto as?, este concepto abraza toda la problem?tica del expresionismo, de lo abstracto, de lo antihuman?stico, de lo ate?sta, de lo antihist?rico, de la circularidad, del "hombre vac?o" - en una palabra, toda la problem?tica del Mundo-de-la-expresi?n [Ausdruckswelt].8 En nuestra conciencia este concepto penetr? a trav?s de Nietzsche, quien lo hab?a tomado de Francia. ?l dec?a: delicadeza en los cinco sentidos art?sticos, el o?do para la perdici?n, la susceptibilidad psicol?gica, la seriedad de la puesta en escena, esa seriedad parisina par excellence ?y: el arte como la tarea aut?ntica de la vida, el arte como actividad metaf?sica de la vida. A todo esto ?l lo llamaba "artisticidad" [Artistik]. Luminosidad, impulso, gaya ciencia - estos sus conceptos lig?ricos - todo a su alrededor s?lo onda y juego, y al final: t? debiste cantar, alma m?a - todas estas sus exclamaciones desde Niza y Portofino -: sobre todo esto ?l liber? sus tres enigm?ticas palabras: "Olimpo de la apariencia" [Olymp des Scheins], el Olimpo donde hab?an habitado los grandes dioses, desde donde Zeus domin? por dos mil a?os, donde las Moiras tuvieron el tim?n de la necesidad, y ahora -: ?de la apariencia! Esto fue un viraje. Esto no es el esteticismo que atraves? el siglo XIX como un rel?mpago en Pater, en Ruskin, m?s genialmente en Wilde - esto era algo distinto, para esto s?lo hay una palabra de antiguo sonido: destino. Lacerar con las palabras la propia esencia, el impulso de expresarse, de formular, de deslumbrar, de centellear desafiando cualquier peligro y sin preocuparse por los resultados - esto fue una existencia nueva. Ten?a su germen en aquel Flaubert quien ante la vista de algunas columnas de la Acr?polis le hizo presagiar cu?l belleza no ef?mera se pod?a alcanzar con la sucesi?n de frases, palabras, vocales - en Novalis, que hablaba del arte como antropolog?a progresiva, incluso tambi?n en Schiller, en quien se halla la singular acentuaci?n de una apariencia est?tica, que no s?lo resulta tal sino que tambi?n quiere serlo. Y quien siga dudando que aqu? se alcanz? a concluir un completo proceso evolutivo, habr? que recordarle aquella frase de A?os de peregrinaje de Wilhelm Meister: "En sus m?s altas cumbres la poes?a parece del todo exterior; cuanto m?s se retrae en la interioridad, tanto m?s est? en v?as de extinguirse". Todo esto estaba ya presente, pero s?lo en aquel momento se consum? la necesidad de integraci?n. Esto es un extenso cap?tulo, y en mis libros a menudo he intentado iluminarlo. Hoy me limito a la poes?a, y esto es posible porque en la poes?a todas estas batallas del ser se desarrollan como sobre un escenario, detr?s de un poema moderno est?n los problemas del tiempo, del arte, de los fundamentos interiores de nuestra existencia en forma mucho m?s compleja y radical que detr?s de una novela o incluso una obra de teatro. Un poema es siempre la pregunta sobre el Yo, y todas las esfinges e im?genes de Sais9 se mezclan en la respuesta. Pero deseo evitar cualquier expresi?n demasiado esot?rica y prefiero permanecer en el plano emp?rico, por eso planteo la pregunta: ?cu?les son entonces los temas espec?ficos de la poes?a l?rica de hoy? Escuchad, por favor: palabra, forma, rima, poema extenso o breve, a qui?n est? dirigido el poema, plano sem?ntico, elecci?n del tema, metaforismo - ?saben de d?nde provienen los conceptos que he mencionado? Son fragmentos de un cuestionario estadounidense dirigido a los poetas; en Estados Unidos se busca promover tambi?n la poes?a por medio de cuestionarios. Encuentro esto interesante, muestra que entre los poetas allende el oc?ano se ven asaltados por las mismas reflexiones que nosotros. Por ejemplo, la cuesti?n: poema extenso o breve, ya la hab?a planteado Poe, y Eliot la retoma: es un asunto extremadamente personal. Pero, particularmente, me asalt? la pregunta: ?a qui?n est? dirigido un poema? - se trata efectivamente de un punto de crisis, y es digna de nota la respuesta dada por un cierto Richard Wilbur: un poema, dice, est? dirigido a la Musa, y ?sta existe, entre otras razones, para velar el hecho que los poemas no est?n dirigidos a nadie. De esto se desprende que allende el mar tambi?n se advierte el car?cter monol?gico del poema: de hecho, se trata de un arte anacor?tico.10 Pero no deseo exponerles asuntos que ustedes pueden consultar tambi?n en libros, deseo m?s bien ofrecerles algo que est? al alcance de la mano, incluso con el riesgo de rozar la banalidad, en vez de discutir los problemas fundamentales - pues ya saben, quien siempre va en busca del trasfondo de las cosas, acaba por ir al fondo, y han aprendido de Flaubert que en el arte no hay nada que sea exterior. Supongo entonces que ahora me preguntar?n de nuevo: qu? es en sustancia el poema moderno, qu? aspecto tiene, y a esta pregunta responder? con una exposici?n negativa, esto es mostrando que aspecto no tiene un poema moderno. Les indicar? cuatro s?ntomas diagn?sticos con los cuales ustedes mismos podr?n distinguir en el futuro si un poema de 1950 se identifica o no con su tiempo. Mis ejemplos los tomo de una antolog?a conocida. Estos cuatro s?ntomas son: Primero, el poetizar. Ejemplo, t?tulo "Campo de rastrojos": Ein kahles Feld vor meinem Fenster liegt j?ngst haben sich dort schwere Weizen?hren im Sommerwinde hin- und hergewiegt vom Ausfall heute sich die Spatzen n?hren. [Un campo yermo frente a mi ventana yace ayer las espigas estaban ah? llenas de trigo ondeaban en el viento estivo aqu? y all? hoy los gorriones se alimentan de los restos] As? contin?a por tres estrofas, luego en la cuarta y ?ltima aparece una vez el Yo, que dice: Schwebt mir nicht hier mein eigenes Leben vor. [?No est? aqu? mi propia vida ante m??] y as? por el estilo. Tenemos entonces dos objetos. Primero, la naturaleza inanimada convertida en tema del poema, y al final el repliegue del autor mismo que ahora asume un tono interior o cree asumirlo. Por tanto, un poema con separaci?n y contraposici?n entre objeto de poes?a y Yo poetante, entre escenario externo y relaci?n interior. Esto, digo yo, es hoy d?a un modo primitivo de documentar la propia sustancia l?rica. Incluso si el autor no quiere asociarse a la frase acu?ada por Marinetti: d?truire le Je dans la litt?rature [destruir el Yo en la literatura], con este m?todo da hoy la impresi?n de ser anticuado. Por otra parte, deseo agregar de inmediato que existen espl?ndidos poemas alemanes que han sido elaborados seg?n este modelo, por ejemplo la Mondnacht [Noche de luna] de Eichendorff, pero que tiene sin embargo m?s de cien a?os. El segundo s?ntoma es el como. Por favor, presten atenci?n a cu?ntas veces en un poema se encuentra el "como". Como o como si, o bien: es como si, ?stas son construcciones auxiliares, a lo sumo un caminar en el vac?o.11 Mi canto fluye como oro solar - El sol est? sobre el techo de ramas como un collar bronc?neo - mi canto tiembla como un romper de olas - Como una flor en la noche silente - P?lido como seda - El amor florece como un lirio. Este "como" es siempre una fractura en la visi?n, aproxima, compara, no pone un v?nculo primordial. Pero aqu? tambi?n debo agregar que hay grandes poemas con el como. Rilke fue un enorme poeta del como. En uno de sus poemas m?s bellos, "Archa?scher Torso Apollos" [Torso arcaico de Apolo],12 en cuatro estrofas aparece tres veces un como, y para mejor unos como asaz banales: como un candelabro [wie ein Kandelaber], como pelo de animal de presa [wie Raubtierfelle], como una estrella [wie ein Stern] - y en su poema "Blaue Hortensie" [Hortensia azul]13 hallamos en cuatro estrofas cuatro como: entre ?stos: como un delantal de ni?o [wie an einer Kindersch?rze], como viejo papel celeste de cartas [wie in alten blauen Briefpapieren] - lo cierto es que Rilke pod?a permit?rselo, pero como principio pueden atenerse al hecho de que en la poes?a l?rica un como representa siempre una intrusi?n del elemento narrativo, de suplemento literario en la poes?a l?rica, una ca?da de la tensi?n ling??stica, un punto d?bil de la transformaci?n creativa. El tercer s?ntoma es m?s inocuo. Observad cu?ntas veces en los versos se mencionan los colores. Rojo, purp?reo, opal?neo, argentino con la variante argentado, pardo, verde, anaranjado, gris, ?ureo - con esto el autor probablemente cree suscitar una impresi?n de exuberante fantas?a, pero no se percata que estos colores no son m?s que clich?s verbales que hallar?an m?s oportuna hospitalidad en casa del ?ptico y del oculista. En cuanto a alg?n color sobre el cual deba darme golpes de pecho, es el azul - ya tendr? ocasi?n de referirme al respecto. El cuarto es el tono ser?fico. Cuando se comienza de inmediato o se arriba sin demora a murmullos de fontanas y arpas y bella noche y silencio y cadenas sin principio, esfericidad, consumaci?n, si se sube victorioso a la estrella, nueva fundaci?n de dios y similares sentimientos c?smicos, todo esto no es m?s que especulaci?n barata sobre el sentimentalismo y la pusilanimidad del lector. Este tono ser?fico no es una superaci?n del mundo terreno, sino una fuga ante ?l. Pero el gran poeta es un gran realista, pr?ximo a toda realidad - ?l se carga de realidad, es sumamente terreno, una cigarra, nacida de la tierra, seg?n la leyenda, el insecto ateniense. Distribuir? el tono esot?rico y ser?fico con infinita cautela, sobre duras bases realistas. - Y despu?s, les pido presten atenci?n a la palabra "ascender" - all? hay uno que desea llegar a lo alto y no logra subir. Por tanto, si en un futuro se hallan con un poema, tomen por favor un l?piz, como lo hacen para los crucigramas, y observen: poetizar, como, escala crom?tica, tono ser?fico, y muy pronto arribar?n a un juicio aut?nomo. Me ser? l?cito ligar este punto con la observaci?n de que en la poes?a l?rica lo mediocre est? absolutamente prohibido y es insoportable, el campo de la poes?a l?rica es limitado, sus medios sumamente sutiles, su sustancia es el ens realissimun de las sustancias, por ello el patr?n de medida debe ser extremo. Novelas mediocres no resultan tan insoportables, pueden divertir, ense?ar, estar llenas de tensi?n, pero la poes?a l?rica debe o ser extraordinaria o no ser en lo absoluto. Esto es parte de su naturaleza. Y de su naturaleza es parte tambi?n algo adicional, una experiencia tr?gica vivida por los poetas sobre s? mismos: nadie, incluso entre los grandes poetas l?ricos de nuestro tiempo, ha dejado m?s de seis u ocho poemas perfectos, los dem?s pueden ser interesantes desde la perspectiva biogr?fica y evolutiva del autor, pero apacibles en s? mismos, radiantes con luz propia, plenos de una fascinaci?n duradera solamente hay unos pocos - entonces en torno a esta media docena de poemas los treinta, cincuenta a?os de ascesis, de sufrimiento, de lucha. Como siguiente argumento deseo describirles un proceso un poco m?s directamente de cuanto sucede en general. Es el proceso de surgimiento de un poema. ?Qu? hay en un autor? ?Cu?l situaci?n est? presente? La situaci?n es la siguiente: el autor posee: Primero que nada, un oscuro germen creativo, una materia ps?quica. En segundo lugar, algunas palabras que tiene disponibles, que est?n a su disposici?n, que sabe manejar, que sabe poner en movimiento: ?l conoce, por as? decirlo, sus palabras. De hecho hay algo que es posible denominar el modo en el cual las palabras se coordinan en torno a un autor. O quiz? tambi?n en cierto d?a ?l se ha enfrentado con una palabra determinada que lo ocupa, lo excita, que ?l cree poder utilizar como motivo conductor. En tercer lugar, ?l posee un hilo de Ariadna que lo hace salir de esta tensi?n bipolar con absoluta seguridad, ya que - y aqu? viene el misterio: la poes?a ya est? concluida antes de haberla comenzado; s?lo que el poeta no conoce a?n el texto. El poema no puede ser absolutamente distinto de como es despu?s, cuando est? terminado. Ustedes saben con precisi?n meridiana cuando est? terminado, pero ciertamente el asunto puede durar mucho tiempo, semanas, a?os, pero antes de concluirlo no lo pueden dejar andar. Continuamente se dirigen a palpar a la palabra individual, al simple verso, tomar aparte la segunda estrofa, la observan, a la tercera estrofa le preguntan si es el missing link entre la segunda y la cuarta estrofa; y as?, por cuanto todo en ustedes es control, auto-observaci?n, cr?tica, hay una fuerza interior por la cual son guiados a trav?s de toda la sucesi?n de estrofas - un caso t?pico de esa libertad vinculada a la necesidad de la que habla Schiller. Pueden decir incluso que un poema es como la nave de los feacios de la que Homero narra que entra directo en el puerto sin necesidad de conductor. En Lot he le?do recientemente una observaci?n de un joven escritor que no conozco y que no s? si produzca composiciones l?ricas,14 un tal Albrecht Fabri, una observaci?n que describe exactamente este estado de cosas: "La cuesti?n acerca de qu? es un poema es en cualquier caso ociosa. Una X que no se puede en ning?n caso aislar tiene su parte en la paternidad de un poema, en otras palabras todo poema tiene su cuesti?n hom?rica, todo poema es de muchos autores, es decir de un autor ignoto." Este estado de cosas es tan singular que quiero expresarlo de nuevo en t?rminos distintos. Algo en ustedes hace irrumpir algunos versos o intenta manifestarse a trav?s de algunos versos, algo m?s en ustedes toma en mano estos versos, los coloca en una suerte de aparato de observaci?n, un microscopio,15 los colorea, va en busca de puntos patol?gicos. Si el primer elemento resulta quiz? ingenuo, el segundo es un poco diverso: refinado y esc?ptico. Si el primero es quiz? subjetivo, el segundo aborda el mundo objetivo, es el principio formal, espiritual. No espero nada de una extensa y profunda disertaci?n sobre la forma. La forma, aislada, es un concepto dif?cil. Pero la forma es sin m?s la poes?a. Los contenidos de un poema, digamos tristeza, p?nico, corrientes escatol?gicas, todo el mundo los tiene, pues es el bagaje propio del hombre, su patrimonio en medida m?s o menos m?ltiple y sublime, pero s?lo deviene poema l?rico cuando toma cuerpo en una forma que haga aut?ctono este contenido, lo dirija, cree a partir de ?ste, con las palabras, un encantamiento. Una forma aislada, una forma en s?, no existe. Ella es el ser, la misi?n existencial del artista, su meta. En este sentido se debe entender ciertamente la frase de Staiger: la forma es el contenido m?s elevado. Pongamos un ejemplo: todos han tenido ocasi?n de pasar por un jard?n, por un parque, es oto?o, cielo azul, nubes blancas, un poco de tristeza sobre los prados, un d?a de adi?s. Ello los vuelve melanc?licos, reflexivos, y entonces meditan. Esto es hermoso, es bueno, pero no es poes?a. Pero entonces aparece Stefan George y observa todo como ustedes y consciente de sus propios sentimientos, lo observa y escribe: Kommt in des totgesagten park und schau der schimmer ferner l?chelnder gestade der reinen wolken unverhofftes blau erhellt die weiher und die bunten pfade. [Ven al parque dado por muerto y mira: el brillo de lejanas playas sonrientes, el inesperado azul de nubes puras brilla sobre irisados senderos y estanques]16 ?l conoce sus palabras, sabe qu? hacer con ellas, sabe la coordinaci?n de palabras adaptadas a ?l, sabe dar con ellas una forma, busca rimas, estrofas tranquilas, silenciosas, estrofas expresivas, y entonces surge uno de los poemas m?s bellos de nuestra ?poca sobre el oto?o y un jard?n - tres estrofas de cuatro versos, y gracias a su forma fascinan a todo un siglo. Tal vez algunos de ustedes pensar?n que uso con una cierta abundancia la palabra "fascinaci?n". Debo decir que sostengo que conceptos como fascinaci?n, interesante, excitante, est?n demasiado poco presentes en la est?tica y en la cr?tica literaria alemanas. Aqu? entre nosotros todo debe ser profundo y oscuro y total ?incluso las Madres, este sitio donde los alemanes gustan residir?, pero yo creo que las ?ntimas transformaciones que el arte, la poes?a, est? en grado de operar ?las que son verdaderas mutaciones y transmutaciones, y cuya eficacia es transmitida por generaciones? derivan mucho m?s f?cilmente y con consecuencias mucho m?s amplias de lo que es excitante y rico de fascinaci?n que de lo que es ya fruto serenado de autodominio. Notas 1 Al empezar su exposici?n, Benn presenta, de soslayo, los temas que han recorrido toda su obra desde sus inicios expresionistas: las referencias al mundo griego, a las experiencias alucinatorias, a la aparici?n de lo dionisiaco y el mundo del mito, como estaciones necesarias en la trayectoria l?rico-creativa. 2 Benn no s?lo se hace eco de una sabida tradici?n que tiene sus inicios no en Baudelaire, como muchos piensan, sino en Novalis y los hermanos Schlegel. No resulta un exceso, entonces, que un cr?tico como Giuliano Baioni al referirse a la dataci?n de los poemas del volumen Statische Gedichte, por ejemplo, hable de "fecha de composici?n" en vez de fecha de escritura o redacci?n. 3 Aunque podr?a parecer un contrasentido, en realidad lo que hace Benn aqu? es oponer, una vez m?s, como lo ha hecho constantemente desde sus primeras obras l?ricas, pros?sticas y reflexivas, como en D-Zug, Der Geburtstag, el mundo meridional, tan caro a Benn, con el mundo fr?amente racional del norte. Aqu?, sin embargo, esta oposici?n se da en otros t?rminos que evidencian un cambio en algunos aspectos de la po?tica del autor. 4 Los traductores al castellano suelen traducir este pasaje err?neamente. S. Gallardo y E. Bulygin lo hacen como "virtuosismo art?stico", en tanto E. Oca?a, m?s err?neamente a?n, lo traduce como "arte puro". Por su parte, Ferruccio Masini, en "La ?nuova tebaide? di Gottfried Benn" (estudio introductivo a Apr?slude, Giulio Einaudi editore, Torino, 1966, p. XVII), lo interpreta como magisterio art?stico. Como lo he se?alado en otra parte, este concepto es de fundamental importancia, y traducirlo como "arte puro" no s?lo es un craso error metodol?gico, sino una traici?n sem?ntica sin m?s. De acuerdo con Angelika Manyoni, "Artistik es por consiguiente 'producci?n de la realidad', creaci?n en el amplio sentido del t?rmino. Como Benn nunca se cansa de se?alar, no se trata de una simple actividad est?tica, sino una actividad con una dimensi?n existencial, que permite al esp?ritu y al intelecto humanos convenir con la existencia humana", en Consistency of Phenotype. A Study of Gottfried Benn's Views on Lyric Poetry, Peter Lang, New York, 1983, p. 202, todas las traducciones citadas son m?as. Como el lector puede constatarlo, m?s adelante Benn encuentra un antecedente para esta concepci?n te?rica en el Wilhelm Meister, de Goethe. Como bien nos lo recuerda Manyoni (Op. cit., p. 45), el concepto goetheano del ?u?ere, citado por Benn ("Auf ihrem h?chsten Gipfel scheint die Poesie ganz ?u?erlich"; "En su m?s alta cumbre la poes?a parece ser del todo externa") es una adecuada anticipaci?n de lo que ?l llama poema absoluto, puesto que el citado concepto goetheano y el benniano Ausdruck tienen en com?n la relevante funci?n de encarnar (Goethe) o expresar (Benn) "das Innere", lo interior. 5 Aunque entre nosotros Werfel es m?s conocido por sus novelas, en Alemania se le considera como uno de los poetas m?s relevantes, y en algunos c?rculos, como el primer gran poeta aut?nticamente expresionista. 6 Para una lectura contextualizada de ambos poemas y su relaci?n con el origen del expresionismo y la cr?tica al Mundo de ayer, v?ase Jos? Manuel Recillas, Aproximaciones al expresionismo, volumen 6, Los poetas: Heym, Stadler, Lasker-Sch?ler, M?xico Volitivo, 2004, pp. 4-5. All? mismo est? traducido el primero, y fragmentos del segundo. 7 La ?nica revisi?n cr?tica reciente, entre nosotros, de este periodo, se halla en Jos? Manuel Recillas, Op. cit. El volumen citado incluye un ejemplo, en versi?n original y su traducci?n, del tipo de poemas que Stramm escribi? por aquel entonces, y que cundieron como plaga en revistas y c?rculos literarios de la ?poca. 8 Se trata de uno de los conceptos fundamentales de la po?tica de Gottfried Benn. Usualmente se le ha traducido sin la consabida referencia al t?rmino original en alem?n y sin vincular los t?rminos traducidos, como aqu? lo hacemos. Dado que se trata, justamente, de un concepto y no de una expresi?n casual, deber?a traducirse y mencionarse como lo hacemos aqu?. Susan Ray, en un luminoso estudio, ha definido la teor?a del Ausdruckswelt en los siguientes t?rminos: "El arte absoluto fue un producto conscientemente elaborado totalmente autosuficiente e independiente de cualquier otra referencia que la existencia primigenia de la cual es la expresi?n m?s depurada. Estas nociones constituyen el formalismo b?sico subyacente en la teor?a del Ausdruckswelt de Benn, es decir su convicci?n de que forma (el trazado externo tanto como su sentido intr?nseco) es contenido", en Beyond Nihilism. Gottfried Benn's Postmodernist Poetics, Peter Lang, Berna, 2003, p. 33. Para una exposici?n m?s amplia al respecto, v?ase all? mismo el cap?tulo 2, "Progressive Cerebration", pp. 31-50, as? como Jos? Manuel Recillas, Aproximaciones al expresionismo, vol. 8, Gottfried Benn, M?xico Volitivo, 2003, pp. 3-9. 9 Referencia, indudablemente, al sitio donde Herodoto informa se hallaba la tumba de Osiris, en el Bajo Egipto, "y que all? hab?a un lago sobre el que se representaban los sufrimientos del dios como un misterio nocturno", seg?n J. G. Frazer, en La rama dorada. Magia y religi?n, Fondo de Cultura Econ?mica, M?xico, 1961, pp. 429-430. Nueva referencia a sus obsesiones por la autonom?a de la creaci?n y sus problemas y enigmas. 10 A. Manyoni advierte, atinadamente, que "as? como el poema 'absoluto' que ?l presagia no est? desprovisto de sustancia, as? su poema 'monol?gico' no est? desprovisto de poder comunicativo. Al poner tanto ?nfasis en el elemento de la fascinaci?n, Benn nos ofrece una clara advertencia de no confundir su poema 'monol?gico' con la auto-expresi?n de un poeta que olvida el contexto social", en Op. cit., p. 76. El concepto del arte monol?gico benniano proviene de la producci?n ensay?stica d?cada de los a?os 1930 y es el resultado directo de la automatizaci?n del lenguaje manifestada desde sus primeras composiciones. Seg?n nos recuerda Augustinus P. Dierick, en Gottfried Benn and his Critics: Major Interpretations, Camden House, Columbia, 1992, p. 167, al cuestionamiento que le hiciera en 1953 Alexander Lernet-Holenia para que Benn adoptara una posici?n de liderazgo de la juventud de su tiempo como la adopt? en el suyo Hugo von Hoffmansthal, Benn responder?a que la p?rdida que ?l sufri? no fue de comunidad, sino de sustancia, que todos los valores fueron destruidos pero que esto proporciona la oportunidad, en t?rminos nietzscheanos, de hacer que los fragmentos brillen. Su respuesta a la situaci?n moderna, afirma, es como la que Nietzsche dio a la de su ?poca, no una falla sino destino; su soledad no es un programa sino un m?todo que funciona mejor que la discusi?n o incluso que escribir ensayos. Su respuesta ser? la creaci?n de su probablemente ?ltima obra maestra, Die Stimme hinter der Vorhang, a la que ?l consider? su propio Serm?n de la Monta?a. 11 Por lo dem?s, ya en Der Geburtstag (1916) Benn iniciaba el relato con este mismo reproche: "Pero sobre todo flotaba un d?bil, dubitativo Como Si: como si ustedes fuesen reales, espacio y estrellas". Cito de acuerdo con mi traducci?n, reproducida aqu? mismo. 12 Se trata del primer poema de Der neuen Gedichte anderer Teil, libro dedicado "A mon grand ami August Renoir", como reza en el frontispicio de la edici?n de Insel Verlag de 1908, en Leipzig. No es casual que Benn se refiera a este poema en particular. No s?lo se trata de una menci?n a uno de los poemas m?s conocidos de Rilke, sino tambi?n de una referencia, sesgada como siempre, al mundo cl?sico y a sus valores, a la b?squeda del orden primigenio que la poes?a y la reflexi?n de nuestro autor estuvieron siempre dirigidas. En el fondo, se trata, finalmente, del asunto del como, no s?lo en su aspecto de part?cula comparativa, sino de la esencia misma de la poes?a: el c?mo se manifiesta la relaci?n del poeta con el mundo primordial de los griegos. 13 Escrito en la primera mitad de julio de 1906, e incluido en Der neuen Gedichte anderer Teil, la elecci?n de este poema rilkeano tampoco es casual. Andreina Lavagetto se?ala, sobre este poema, que "se trata de una de las composiciones rilkeanas en las que resulta m?s evidente y perfecto el procedimiento po?tico que lleva a aislar y a aflorar la species (imposible de darse completamente) de un objeto: en este caso el azul, en su cualidad y despu?s en su metamorfosis", en R. M. Rilke, Poesie. I (1895-1908). Edici?n al cuidado de Giuliano Baioni, Einaudi-Gallimard, Biblioteca della Pl?iade, 12, Torino, 1994, p. 920. Sin duda, al citar un poema inmediatamente despu?s del anterior, lo que hace Benn es establecer, una vez m?s, el horizonte l?rico-te?rico de su teor?a de la Palabra meridional (das s?dliche Wort) y sus propios procedimientos l?ricos, ya se?alados en mi ensayo "Misterismo y autonom?a ling??stica en Der Geburtstag". 14 La secuencia "produzca composiciones l?ricas" no puede ser m?s antirrom?ntica. Se trata, en efecto, de una declaraci?n que confirma la posici?n del autor en contra de la forma casual, inspirada, que la mayor?a de los lectores suelen tener de la escritura l?rica, a saber: que esta se produce por medios incontrolables, ajenos a la voluntad del autor. Nada m?s lejos de la postura est?tica de nuestro autor. 15 No se olvide que Benn fue m?dico toda su vida, y una de sus fotos m?s c?lebres los muestra sentado, justamente, observando a trav?s de un microscopio alguna muestra org?nica. 16 Una vez m?s, no resulta casual la menci?n de Stefan George. No s?lo por su peso espec?fico en la historia literaria alemana del ?ltimo siglo, inconcebible e incomparable para los lectores ajenos a ella. Para Benn, como para muchos alemanes, la figura de George represent? una aut?ntica luz que los orient? por entre las tinieblas del siglo. A George, Benn dedic? su c?lebre Rede an Stefan George, de 1933, un texto abiertamente pol?mico, ambiguo y no del todo laudatorio, en donde sin embargo, Benn establece su admiraci?n por el uso de la palabra por parte de aqu?l en los siguientes t?rminos, que parecen m?s bien aplicados a s? mismo: "No estaba al servicio de la realidad, pero hab?a una s?per-tensi?n metaf?rica del ser, una creaci?n en s? y sin par, tras los signos y sonidos hab?a fuerzas espirituales de tipo radical, metaf?sico, fuerzas creativas, clamantes, evocativas, y s?lo a ?stas se dirig?a la poes?a. Palabras, s?, pero s?lo en cuanto portadoras antropol?gicas de un sonido y de un peso, fen?meno primitivo de gran emisi?n, m?gicas y tot?micas, ?stas reg?an su mundo". testimonios KARYATIDE Entr?cke dich dem Stein! Zerbirst die H?hle, die dich knechtet! Rausche doch in die Flur! Verh?hne die Gesimse - sie: durch den Bart des trunkenen Silen aus einem ewig ?berrauschten lauten einmaligen durchdr?hnten Blut tr?uft Wein in seinen Scham! Bespei die S?ulensucht: toderschlagene greisige H?nde bebten sie verhangenen Himmeln zu. St?rze die Tempel vor die Sehnsucht deines Knies, in dem der Tanz begehrt! Breite dich hin, zerbl?he dich, oh, blute dein weiches Beet aus gro?en Wunden hin: sieh, Venus mit den Tauben g?rtet sich Rosen um der H?ften Liebestor - sie dieses Sommers letzten blauen Hauch auf Astermeeren an die fernen baumbraunen Ufer treiben; tagen sieh diese letzte Gl?ck-L?genstunde unserer S?dlichkeit hoggew?lbt. CARI?TIDE Sustr?ete de la piedra! ?Rompe la cavidad que te aprisiona! ?Irrumpe* en la campi?a! M?fate de las cornisas - mira: por la barba del ebrio Sileno desde un eterno tumultuar estremecido por extra?a m?sica gotea vino en su sexo. Escupe la sed de las columnas: seniles manos muertas temblaron hacia nublados cielos. Derriba los templos ante el ansia de tus rodillas que anhelan danza. Exti?ndete, florece, oh, sangra tu suave arriate de grandes heridas: mira, Venus con sus palomas se ci?e de rosas la puerta del amor de las caderas - mira exhalar este ?ltimo azul del est?o vagar a la deriva en el mar de ?steres hacia las lejanas riveras brunas de los ?rboles; mira alborear esta postrer hora falaz de felicidad sobre nuestra meridionalidad alta como una b?veda. Publicado originalmente en Die wei?en Bl?tter, III, 3. marzo.1916 SILS-MARIA I In den Abend rannen die Stunden, er lauschte im Abhangslicht ihrer Strophe: "alle verbunden, die letzte bricht..." Das war zu Ende gelesen. Doch wer die Stunden denkt: ihre Welle, ihr Spiel, ihr Wesen, der hat die Stunden gelenkt -: Ein Alles-zum-Besten-Nenner den trifft die Stunde nicht, ein solcher Schattenkenner der trinkt das Parzenlicht. II Es war kein Schnee, doch Leuchten das hoch herab geschah, es war kein Tod, doch deuchten sich alle todesnah -: es war so wei?, kein Bitten durchdrang mehr das Opal, ein ungeheures: Gelitten stand ?ber diesem Tal. Sils-Mar?a I En la tarde las horas corr?an, escuchaba en la luz de la colina sus coplas: "todas hieren, la ?ltima mata." Esto se ley? hasta el final. Pero el que piensa las horas -sus olas, sus juegos, su esencia- es quien las horas conduce: a un nominador del optimismo no lo tocan las horas, este conocedor de sombras bebe la luz de las Parcas. II No era la nieve, sino luces, lo que de lo alto descendi?; no era la muerte, pero cre?an todos la muerte cercana; era tan blanco, ning?n ruego penetraba aquel ?palo, descomunal: sufrimiento sobre este valle se escribi?. Publicado originalmente en Die Literatur XXXVI, 1, 1933, Statische Gedichte, 1948 Osterinsel Eine so kleine Insel, wie ein Vogel ?ber dem Meer, kaum ein Aschengerinnsel und doch von Kr?ften nicht leer, mit Steigebilden, losen, die Ebene bes?t von einer fast monstrosen Irrealit?t. Die gro?en alten Worte -sagt Ure Vaeiko- haben die Felsen zu Horte, da kleinen leben so; er schwelt auf seiner Matte bei etwas kaltem Fisch, h?hnerfeindliche Ratte kommt nicht auf seinen Tisch. Vom Pazifik erschlagen, von Ozeanen bedroht, nie ward an Land getragen ein Polynesierboot, doch gro?e Schwalbenfeiern einem transzendenten Du, G?ttern von Vogeleiern singen die T?nzer zu. Tierhafte Alphabete f?r Sonne, Mond und Stier mit einer Haifischgr?te -Baustrophedonmanier-: ein Zeichen f?r zw?lf Laute, ein Ruf f?r das, was schlief und sich im Innern baute aus wahrem Konstruktiv. Woher die Seelenschichten, da das Idol entsprang zu diesen Steingesichten und Riesenformungszwang - die gro?en alten Worte sind ewig unverwandt, haben die Felsen zu Horte und alles Unbekannt. Isla de Pascua Una isla tan peque?a como un ave sobre el mar, apenas un co?gulo de cenizas sin fuerza, con estatuas de piedras dispersas, la llanura diseminada por una monstuosa irrealidad. Las grandes y antiguas palabras -dice Ure Vaeiko- tienen las rocas por casa, las peque?as viven as?; ?l vegeta en su estera ante un poco de peces fr?os, una rata enemiga de los pollos no llega a la mesa. Asediada por el Pac?fico, por los oc?anos amenazada, nunca lleg? a tierra una barca polinesia sino grandes fiestas de golondrinas a un T? trascendental, dioses de huevos surgidos cantan a los danzantes. Alfabetos animales para sol, luna y toro con una espina de escualo -sistema bustrof?dico-: un signo para doce sonidos, un grito para lo que duerme y al interior se edificaba por sustancias constructivas. De d?nde los estratos del alma de los que naci? el ?dolo para estas visiones de piedra y coacciones a formas gigantes- las grandes y antiguas palabras son eternamente inmutables, tienen las rocas por casa y todo lo ignoto. Publicado originalmente en Gesammelte Gedichte, 1927 Hombre y mujer deambulan por el pabell?n de los cancerosos (Mann und Frau gehen durch die Krebsbaracke) El hombre: En esta hilera hay vientres descompuestos y en esta otra hay pechos descompuestos. Cama apesta junto a cama. Las enfermeras se turnan cada hora. Ven, levanta esta cobija. Mira este grumo de grasa y humores podridos; esto alguna vez fue importante para este hombre y fue tambi?n delirio y patria. Ven, mira esta cicatriz en el pecho. ?Notas el rosario de blandos nudos? Toca sin temor. La carne es blanda y no duele. Esta mujer sangra como si treinta cuerpos tuviera. Nadie puede tener tanta sangre. A esta otra reci?n le extrajeron un ni?o del canceroso seno. Se les permite dormir. D?a y noche. A los nuevos se les dice: aqu? se duerme hasta sanar. S?lo los domingos se les deja despiertos un rato, para las visitas. Pocos alimentos se ingieren. Las espaldas est?n en carne viva. Ves las moscas. A veces los lava una enfermera, como se lavan los bancos. Aqu? el camposanto sube hacia cada lecho. Carne se adelgaza. Fuego vital se pierde. Humores coagulan. Tierra llama. Versiones de J.M. Recillas www.gottfriedbennenespanol.blogspot.com zonas EUGENIO MONTEJO (1938-2008): "Siempre necesitamos decir de nuevo las palabras de amor" Javier Rodr?guez Marcos L a obra de Eugenio Montejo (Caracas, 1938) fue todo un descubrimiento en Espa?a con Adi?s al siglo XX (Renacimiento, 1997). A la confirmaci?n que supuso Partitura de la cigarra (1999) se suma ahora Papiros amorosos (ambos en Pre-Textos). Incorporado desde el mundo de la cultura a la carrera diplom?tica, alude, efectivamente, con diplomacia a la situaci?n pol?tica en Venezuela: 'Lo mejor es que est? tomando conciencia la sociedad civil'. Seg?n usted, los poetas no pertenecen a una geograf?a, sino a una ?poca. Es una idea de Yeats, que dec?a que uno pertenece m?s a su tiempo que a su pa?s. Uno sintoniza m?s con sus contempor?neos que con sus paisanos o con sus coet?neos. Yo tengo menos que ver con un venezolano del siglo pasado que con alguien de otro pa?s pero con las preocupaciones de hoy. Las familias po?ticas no siempre coinciden con las fronteras geogr?ficas. ?Cu?l ser?a su familia? Digamos que yo trabajo en la tradici?n de la lengua (concisi?n, s?ntesis verbal...). En esa l?nea que partiendo de Manrique atraviesa Quevedo y fray Luis, y llega a Vallejo. Adem?s, trato de sintonizar la entonaci?n americana como la percibo en Carlos Pellicer, Eliseo Diego o ?lvaro Mutis. Y en la poes?a brasile?a. Ahora que se habla tanto de Cernuda, nosotros le?mos a la generaci?n del 27 en paralelo con la del 22 en Brasil: Drummond de Andrade, Casiano Ricardo, Cecilia Meireles... Sus Papiros amorosos parecen atravesados por una pregunta: ?c?mo escribir poemas de amor? No escrib? poemas de amor en mi juventud. Siempre pens? que planteaban muchos riesgos y exig?an mucha sabidur?a verbal. En la poes?a amorosa es dif?cil pasar de la orilla de la palabra a la orilla de la memoria. No siempre lo que interesa a dos interesa a otros. Ah? est? el riesgo. No obstante, siempre necesitamos decir de nuevo las palabras de amor, buscar nuevas entonaciones. Siempre tratamos de que, a pesar de que hayan existido Pablo Neruda y Pedro Salinas, nuestra entonaci?n pueda decir lo suyo. ?Las palabras de amor est?n cansadas? Un poco. El poema de amor plantea el riesgo de la nader?a y el lugar com?n. En sus poemas, el amor es m?s que una idea: hay mucho erotismo. Es verdad. Manuel Bandeira tiene un verso que dice: 'Los cuerpos entienden, pero las almas no'. El amor canta para el cuerpo y para el esp?ritu, sin separar una cosa de la otra. Para usted el deseo est? aqu?, no en otro mundo. ?Queda alguna posibilidad de trascendencia? Jos? Gaos, el fil?sofo, que estuvo en M?xico y pas? por Venezuela, dec?a que quienes se desviven por otro mundo acaso no lo merezcan, porque si se les concede pueden desvivirse por otro y olvidarse de aqu?l. 'No todo en el poema ha de ser literalmente escritura', ha escrito. ?Qu? es entonces? Es lo que precede a la escritura. Lo anterior es el amor y la poes?a. El amor es anterior al lenguaje. Tan anterior que tiene un lenguaje propio. ?Qu? es si no es eso? Es otro lenguaje, otra forma de comprensi?n de lo humano y de la realidad. Vivimos una ?poca alfab?tica. Todo est? dominado por el alfabeto como un absoluto, y olvidamos que el alfabeto es un invento. De hecho, decimos analfabeto como un insulto. Una vez un amigo me dijo: 'No despreciemos a los analfabetos. Ellos inventaron la escritura'. ?Vivimos una ?poca de repliegue de la poes?a? La imagen que define la poes?a en este tiempo es la del eclipse. La poes?a est? eclipsada en el sentido en que no es objeto de la atenci?n absolutamente preferente que le dispensaron otras ?pocas. Y no tan antiguas, hablo de hace un siglo. Hoy d?a tiene un culto minoritario, que mantiene la llama encendida. Prefiero la imagen del eclipse porque al fin y al cabo los eclipses son pasajeros. Tan pronto termine esta fascinaci?n por lo audiovisual, volver? la poes?a a tener el sitial preferente que ha sido la constante en todas las culturas. Los antrop?logos no han podido datar una sola cultura que prescinda del canto. Hay, eso s?, culturas que prescinden del signo. ?Por qu? se ha producido ese eclipse? Cuando durante el cerco de Leningrado y todas esas experiencias terribles Pasternak y Ajm?tova le?an sus poemas, los comunistas se asombraban de que los soldados se supiesen de memoria los versos. Se dieron cuenta de que los hab?an menospreciado, aunque ellos no lo hac?an por el comunismo, sino por el alma rusa. Es un tema fascinante sobre el que tenemos que meditar mucho: ?qu? ocurre para que en este tiempo la poes?a no tenga ese fervor? ?Qu? hacer? ?Esperar a que pase el eclipse o intervenir? Las dos cosas: esperar interviniendo. El artista tampoco puede adecuarse porque s?. Como dice G?nther Eich, el artista es arena y no aceite en el mecanismo del mundo, trata de contrarrestar para corregir. Busca el tempo vital del hombre para devolv?rselo. El artista debe reclamar m?s, m?s espacio vital, m?s vida. No obstante, hay s?ntomas de que estamos saliendo del eclipse: los movimientos ecologistas, que tienden a devolverle ciudad al hombre, de conquistar espacios. Tratan de que la ciudad no sea el espacio hostil que ha sido. 'Tan altos son los edificios que ya no se ve nada mi infancia', dice un verso suyo. Pertenezco a la generaci?n que sufri? en Venezuela el cambio de pa?s agrario a pa?s petrolero. El crecimiento no se ha detenido, y se ha llevado por delante muchas cosas. El choque de la naturaleza con la ciudad. M?s a?n. Cuando uno se asoma a las grandes metr?polis de hoy, la visi?n no puede ser la que tuvo el hombre de la ciudad antigua. Ahora se le escapa. Vivimos la era de despu?s de los dioses y de despu?s de la ciudad. ?Sigue pensando que el juicio final ser? ante la poes?a? La poes?a es la ?ltima religi?n que nos queda. Si hay un juicio final, ser? ante ella. Brodsky dice que si la poes?a es la forma de la elocuencia suprema deja de ser un arte para ser nuestro fin antropol?gico gen?tico. Toda nuestra apuesta es ante la poes?a. Y eso no s?lo es una est?tica, es tambi?n una ?tica. El Pa?s, 22 de junio de 2002 www.elpais.com/articulo/narrativa/MONTEJO/_EUGENIO/Siempre/necesitamos/decir/nuevo/palabras/amor/elpbabnar/20020622elpbabnar_20/Tes/ LA POES?A La poes?a cruza la tierra sola, apoya su voz en el dolor del mundo y nada pide ni siquiera palabras. Llega de lejos y sin hora, nunca avisa; tiene la llave de la puerta. Al entrar siempre se detiene a mirarnos. Despu?s abre su mano y nos entrega una flor o un guijarro, algo secreto, pero tan intenso que el coraz?n palpita demasiado veloz. Y despertamos. AMANTES Se amaban. No estaban solos en la tierra; ten?an la noche, sus v?speras azules, sus celajes. Viv?an uno en el otro, se palpaban como dos p?talos no abiertos en el fondo de alguna flor del aire. Se amaban. No estaban solos a la orilla de su primera noche. Y era la tierra la que se amaba en ellos, el oro nocturno de sus vueltas, la galaxia. Ya no tendr?an dos muertes. No iban a separarse. Desnudos, asombrados, sus cuerpos se tend?an como hileras de luces en un largo aeropuerto donde algo iba a llegar desde muy lejos, no demasiado tarde. CANCI?N Cada cuerpo con su deseo y el mar al frente. Cada lecho con su naufragio y los barcos al horizonte. Estoy cantando la vieja canci?n que no tiene palabras. Cada cuerpo junto a otro cuerpo, cada espejo temblando en la sombra y las nubes errantes. Estoy tocando la antigua guitarra con que los amantes se duermen. Cada ventana en sus helechos, cada cuerpo desnudo en su noche y el mar al fondo, inalcanzable. DURA MENOS UN HOMBRE QUE UNA VELA... Dura menos un hombre que una vela pero la tierra prefiere su lumbre para seguir el paso de los astros. Dura menos que un ?rbol, que una piedra, se anochece ante el viento m?s leve, con un soplo se apaga. Dura menos un p?jaro, que un pez fuera del agua, casi no tiene tiempo de nacer, da unas vueltas al sol y se borra entre las sombras de las horas hasta que sus huesos en el polvo se mezclan con el viento, y sin embargo, cuando parte siempre deja la tierra m?s clara. ____________________________________________ Comit? editorial luis alberto alfaro (costa rica)/ cruz ben?tez/ fabienne bradu/ sergio c?rdenas/ luis cort?s bargall?/ miguel jorge castillo/ evodio escalante/ julio c?sar f?lix/ alfredo giles-d?az/ jes?s g?mez mor?n/ armando gonz?lez torres/ ricardo hern?ndez ech?varri (eu)/ sa?l ibargoyen/ jos? kozer (eu)/ eduardo langagne/ hern?n lav?n cerda/ luc?a de luna/ floriano martins (brasil)/ jos? manuel mateo/ santiago montobbio (espa?a)/ angelina mu?iz-huberman/ jorge ortega (espa?a)/ armando oviedo/ george reyes (ecuador)/ manuel silva acevedo (chile)/ felipe v?zquez/ ?scar wong/ elsa zeferino/ editor web: ignacio simal (espa?a)/ coordinador: leopoldo cervantes-ortiz elpoemaseminal es un proyecto independiente de divulgaci?n sin afanes de lucro ni de promoci?n de una sola l?nea est?tica o cultural. no est? vinculado a ning?n grupo o instituci?n, por lo que abre sus puertas a todos los autores/as de M?xico y de cualquier parte del mundo. reconoce que los espacios para la poes?a, con todo y que ahora son muchos dentro y fuera de la red cibern?tica, siguen siendo reducidos. el criterio de selecci?n es ?nicamente la calidad po?tica, debido a lo cual se aceptan aportaciones en todos los sentidos. se citar? siempre la fuente original. invitamos a los lectores/as y amigos/as a compartir poemas, libros, presentaciones, novedades y todo lo relacionado con la poes?a, as? como nuevas direcciones. www.elpoemaseminal.lupaprotestante.com, www.elpoemaseminal.blogspot.com elpoemasem@yahoo.com.mx, elpoemaseminal2008@yahoo.com.mx correodepoesia@yahoo.com.mx __________________________________________________ Correo Yahoo! Espacio para todos tus mensajes, antivirus y antispam ?gratis! Reg?strate ya - http://correo.yahoo.com.mx/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 270.5.5/1569 - Release Date: 7/23/2008 1:31 PM -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080724/4abfa160/attachment.html From amyhappens at yahoo.com Thu Jul 24 17:21:58 2008 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:39 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Play It Again, Sam -- Message-ID: <37848.60228.qm@web83303.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> No, Bogart never said it, but I'll repeat: TOMORROW!? FRIDAY NIGHT, July 25th @ 7 p.m. - Stain Bar - Williamsburg , Brooklyn The Stain of Poetry Reading Series presents ? ** Baker, Cordelli, Field, Need, Newton , and Tonelli ** ? ~~~ ? Andrea Baker is the author of like wind loves a window (Slope Editions, 2005) and the chapbooks gilda (Poetry Society of America, 2004) and true poems about the river go like this (Cannibal Books, 2008). ? ~~~~ ? Phil Cordelli cleans lawns, carries on a love affair with the tuliptrees of Upper Manhattan that may not be carrying on for much longer now, and acts as a conduit for poetic impulses from the plant world. More on this as it develops. ? ~~~~ ? Farrah Field's first book, Rising, is forthcoming in early 2009 by Four Way Books. Her poems have appeared in many publications such as the Mississippi Review, Margie, Chelsea , The Massachusetts Review, Typo, Harp & Altar, and are forthcoming in Pebble Lake Review, Another Chicago Magazine, Fulcrum, and 42Opus. She lives in Brooklyn . ? ?~~~~ ? Originally from Massachusetts , David Need lives in Durham , NC and works as an instructor in the Religion Department at Duke, teaching classes on Buddhism, South Asian Religions, and Religion and Poetry. Recent and upcoming publications include several suites published in Fascicle 2 & 3, a translation/essay series on Rg Veda poetry in Talisman, an excerpt from "Places I've Lived" upcoming in Minor American, and excerpts from "St. John's Rose Slumber" upcoming in Effing and Hambone. Several years ago Mipoesis ran a series of essays by David on Rilke and three short memoir pieces, and Ocho ran yet another sonnet suite. Current projects include a long poem written alongside the Gospel of Mark, "Places I've Lived", which is evolving into an open ended project, finalizing a collection of translations of Rilke's French poetry, and yet another Rg Veda essay, this one on the theme of twins there and in the poetry of Nate Mackey. David is associated with the NC lucipo poets, and lives with his scholar wife and four cats. ? ~~~~ ? Keith Newton edits the online magazine Harp & Altar. His poems and translations have appeared in Harvard Review, Cannibal, Typo, and Circumference, among other journals, and a chapbook of his work is forthcoming in 2008 from Cannibal Books. He lives in Brooklyn . ? ~~~ ? Chris Tonelli lives in the Boston area where he runs The So and So Series. He has work forthcoming in Saltgrass, Salt Hill, Absent, and Good Foot, and is the author of three chapbooks: For People Who Like Gravity and Other People (Rope-A-Dope Press, forthcoming), A Mule-Shaped Cloud (w/ Sarah Bartlett, horse less press, 2008), and WIDE TREE: Short Poems (Kitchen Press, 2006). ? ~~~~ ? stain 766 grand street brooklyn, ny 11211 (L train to Grand Street , 1 block west) 718/387-7840 open daily @ 5 p.m. ? ~~~~ ? Hosted by Amy King and Ana Bozicevic ? ~~~~ The rest of the year's dishes served up here: http://thestainofpoetry. wordpress.com/? http://thestainofpoetry. wordpress.com/? http://thestainofpoetry. wordpress.com/ _______ Recent http://www.tarpaulinsky.com/Reviews/kiss-me.html http://jacketmagazine.com/34/dickow-king.shtml Alias http://www.amyking.org Your Suggestions http://amyking.wordpress.com/2008/06/12/poetry-exercises-wanted/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080724/8ac8a11c/attachment.html From rog3r.day at gmail.com Thu Jul 24 17:40:19 2008 From: rog3r.day at gmail.com (Roger Day) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:39 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Kay Ryan new Poet Laureate In-Reply-To: <003601c8ea54$fc752ff0$0201a8c0@LindaSue> References: <214960.33631.qm@web83310.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <003e01c8e7fd$312ca250$0201a8c0@LindaSue> <7db1d01b0807192037x65b44defuffd477d7ecc1c3a9@mail.gmail.com> <003601c8ea54$fc752ff0$0201a8c0@LindaSue> Message-ID: I was fairly well oiled that night, having packed away a bottle of wine. I think what I meant to say was, given the spread of poets today, 5 years is long over-due for a female poet to become poet laureate. There should be more, even year-on-year succession of women poets. I don't even expect them to be democratically elected but, given the wide pool of poets to chose from, I'd certainly expect women poets to be chosen more regularly. It's somewhat of a numbers game after all. Taken stochastically, the more poets there are, the better chance of quality appearing somewhere in the selection. And there a lot of women poets being published today, producing a lot of excellent work. so yes, 5 years is too long. apologies for speaking incoherently in two languages. Lech On Sun, Jul 20, 2008 at 11:40 AM, Linda Sue Grimes wrote: > I think he misunderstood my remark. He's trying to say, "you think that > there should be an even split of men and women chosen to the post." > > Actually, I was reacting to the odd claim that appointing a woman was "long > overdue," because there had been a woman only five years ago in 2003-2004. > Five years is " long overdue"? > > Now, however, I too would like to know what he intended to say. Is English > not his first language? Obviously, French isn't. > > lsg > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Judy Prince > To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &,Views > Sent: Saturday, July 19, 2008 10:37 PM > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Kay Ryan new Poet Laureate > Roger, could you explain what you just said? > Judy > > 2008/7/19 Roger Day : >> >> You speak as if the deal was done, that a woman candidate was au >> natiurelle, a part of the succession.for every post, the whole field >> would be considered? >> >> Roger >> >> On Thu, Jul 17, 2008 at 12:06 PM, Linda Sue Grimes >> wrote: >> > Right...There hasn't been a woman poet laureate since 2003. >> > >> > >> > >> > lsg >> > >> > ----- Original Message ----- >> > From: amy king >> > To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &,Views ; Women's Poetry >> > Listserve ; UB Poetics discussion group >> > Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2008 9:27 PM >> > Subject: [New-Poetry] Kay Ryan new Poet Laureate >> > And long overdue, in terms of -- yep -- gender: >> > >> > >> > The list, up to Donald Hall in 2006, appears here [followed by Kooser, >> > Simic, and now Ryan]: >> > >> > U.S. Poet Laureate Timeline [1937 - 2006 = 36 Men and 8 Women] >> > >> > >> > http://amyking.wordpress.com/2008/03/23/what%e2%80%99s-love-got-to-do-with-it/ >> > >> > ~~~ >> > >> > Kay Ryan Named Poet Laureate - NYT: >> > >> > http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/17/books/17poet.html >> > >> > >> > _______ >> > >> > Recent >> > http://www.tarpaulinsky.com/Reviews/kiss-me.html >> > http://jacketmagazine.com/34/dickow-king.shtml >> > >> > Alias >> > http://www.amyking.org >> > >> > Your Suggestions >> > http://amyking.wordpress.com/2008/06/12/poetry-exercises-wanted/ >> > >> > ________________________________ >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > New-Poetry mailing list >> > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu >> > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > New-Poetry mailing list >> > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu >> > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> > >> > >> >> >> >> -- >> My Stuff: http://www.badstep.net/ >> "I began to warm and chill >> to objects and their fields" >> Nick Cave & The Bad Seeds >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > ________________________________ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- My Stuff: http://www.badstep.net/ "I began to warm and chill to objects and their fields" Nick Cave & The Bad Seeds From Rsgwynn1 at cs.com Thu Jul 24 19:15:01 2008 From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com (Rsgwynn1@cs.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:39 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] we murder to deflect Message-ID: In a message dated 7/24/2008 11:21:11 AM Central Daylight Time, grahamd@ripon.edu writes: > > > When I teach my course Poetry Aloud I always start with the ear. We > memorize &recite a short poem together before we do anything else. Interestingly, > you can tell immediately tell who has a natural ear and who doesn't. Some > find it very difficult to hear even the basics of stress, I've found. When I > write the word "content" on the board and pronounce it as CONtent, then as > conTENT, there are always a few who cannot easily tell the difference. My own > experience suggests that, even if you start out that way, you don't need to end > up so. > > > > > Your practice is a sound one, I think. Teaching students to have an "ear" is very tough, but some, I think, just don't have much sense of accent. Maybe it comes from not being taught, in 4th grade or so, to break words into syllables and mark the stressed ones. A lot of good stuff about English has been lost along the way--syllabication, pronunciation, vocabulary building, roots/prefixes/suffixes, even sentence diagramming. My students these days are woefully deficient in basic terms of grammar--subject, predicate, phrase, clause, etc. It's pretty hard to teach so many things about poetry--diction, syntax, etc.--when the students have so little grounding in these fundamentals. I've probably had no more than a dozen advanced students in the past 20 years who know what a semicolon is for. Students who have the best "ears" are invariably those who have had dance or music or even aerobics. Maybe I should add ROTC. I wonder what it would be like to teach a prosody course during military basic training! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080724/12ca99ad/attachment.html From jforjames at aol.com Thu Jul 24 20:47:24 2008 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames@aol.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:40 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] poet Jon Goode appears in CNN's "Black in America" Message-ID: <8CABC0723B6ECF5-C50-2E51@Webmail-mg19.sim.aol.com> Spoken-word poet Jon Goode: A man of his word Emmy-nominated poet, Jon Goode, appears in CNN's "Black in America" series The art of spoken word was popularized by beatnik writers such as Jack Kerouac Expert: Hip-hop has sparked a renaissance of spoken word in black America Rhyme topics range from AIDS and prostitution to gas prices and unrequited love By Dana Rosenblatt CNN ???? ATLANTA, Georgia (CNN) -- In a small independently owned coffee shop on the corner of one of Atlanta's urban pockets, a group of would-be poets come together at open mic night for an evening of poetry and rhymes. Emmy-nominated spoken-wordpoet Jon Goode appears in CNN's "Black in America"? series. ?It's one of the monthly gatherings at Urban Grind coffeehouse that has lured talent as spoken word emerges from the underground. Artists such as Tommy Bottoms, Goldie, Chas, Nukola and TheresaThaSongbird take turns at the microphone testing their poetic skills. These bohemians of varying talent coin rhymes about subjects ranging from AIDS and prostitution, to high gas prices and the pangs of unrequited love -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080724/664f0114/attachment.html From jforjames at aol.com Thu Jul 24 20:48:34 2008 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames@aol.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:40 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: poet Jon Goode appears in CNN's "Black in America" (w/ URL) In-Reply-To: <8CABC0723B6ECF5-C50-2E51@Webmail-mg19.sim.aol.com> References: <8CABC0723B6ECF5-C50-2E51@Webmail-mg19.sim.aol.com> Message-ID: <8CABC074D398383-C50-2E5E@Webmail-mg19.sim.aol.com> http://www.cnn.com/2008/LIVING/07/24/bia.jon.goode/index.html?eref=ib_topstories Spoken-word poet Jon Goode: A man of his word Emmy-nominated poet, Jon Goode, appears in CNN's "Black in America" series The art of spoken word was popularized by beatnik writers such as Jack Kerouac Expert: Hip-hop has sparked a renaissance of spoken word in black America Rhyme topics range from AIDS and prostitution to gas prices and unrequited love By Dana Rosenblatt CNN ???? ATLANTA, Georgia (CNN) -- In a small independently owned coffee shop on the corner of one of Atlanta's urban pockets, a group of would-be poets come together at open mic night for an evening of poetry and rhymes. Emmy-nominated spoken-wordpoet Jon Goode appears in CNN's "Black in America"? series. ?It's one of the monthly gatherings at Urban Grind coffeehouse that has lured talent as spoken word emerges from the underground. Artists such as Tommy Bottoms, Goldie, Chas, Nukola and TheresaThaSongbird take turns at the microphone testing their poetic skills. These bohemians of varying talent coin rhymes about subjects ranging from AIDS and prostitution, to high gas prices and the pangs of unrequited love The Famous, the Infamous, the Lame - in your browser. Get the TMZ Toolbar Now! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080724/67892e4c/attachment.html From jbalizsprince at googlemail.com Thu Jul 24 20:55:14 2008 From: jbalizsprince at googlemail.com (Judy Prince) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:40 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] How to Write With Style In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7db1d01b0807241755n7cdb1761k34151feade889525@mail.gmail.com> Thanks, James. I emailed the URL to my son and his wife (attorneys can always appreciate good writing, nah?). The day before you sent this, I had been wondering email-ly to them about why so many SF authors seem to lack the imagination of a "Harrison Bergeron". I have some theories about it. Judy 2008/7/24 : > This might be of use to those who teach writing...nothing too original or > strange, just some common sense advice by author of renown: > > http://literature.sdsu.edu/onWRITING/vonnegutSTYLE.html > > How to Write With Style > by Kurt Vonnegut > > > > > ------------------------------ > Get fantasy football with free live scoring. Sign up for FanHouse Fantasy > Football today > . > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080724/dede802a/attachment.html From jforjames at aol.com Thu Jul 24 21:04:41 2008 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames@aol.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:40 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] WorldPo:John Welch Message-ID: <8CABC098D47F2CB-C50-2F34@Webmail-mg19.sim.aol.com> http://intercapillaryspace.blogspot.com/2008/07/john-welch-collected-poems.html The publication of John Welch's 450-page Collected Poems provides the reader with a welcome opportunity to look back over the writing career of this significant London-based poet. It has been a long and productive career: the poems collected here cover a period of almost forty years; and a large number of earlier poems are left out. Shearsman are to be congratulated on imaginatively bringing out, at the same time as this substantial volume of poems, another important work by John Welch, his Dreaming Arrival. This is half the size of the Collected Poems and is a series of prose reflections on the motivations of his poetry, and the relationships between the poetry and the author's experience of psychotherapy. - -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080724/cc467133/attachment.html From jforjames at aol.com Thu Jul 24 21:17:04 2008 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames@aol.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:40 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Kirsch re Keats Message-ID: <8CABC0B4859B901-C50-2FD7@Webmail-mg19.sim.aol.com> http://www.newyorker.com/arts/critics/books/2008/07/07/080707crbo_books_kirsch?currentPage=all Books Cloudy Trophies John Keats?s obsession with fame and death. by Adam Kirsch July 7, 2008 Text Size: ?I have an habitual feeling,? Keats wrote, ?that I am leading a posthumous existence.? ? ?Posthumous Keats? (Norton; $27.95); Tuberculosis; Death; Writers In July, 1820, John Keats published his third and final book, ?Lamia, Isabella, The Eve of St. Agnes and Other Poems.? He had no reason to expect that it would be a success, with either the public or the critics: in his short career, the twenty-four-year-old poet had known nothing but rejection on both fronts. After his first book, ?Poems,? appeared, in 1817, his publishers, the brothers Charles and James Ollier, refused to have anything more to do with him. In a letter to the poet?s brother George, they wrote, ?We regret that your brother ever requested us to publish his book, or that our opinion of its talent should have led us to acquiesce in undertaking it.? They went on, ?By far the greater number of persons who have purchased it from us have found fault with it in such plain terms, that we have in many cases offered to take the book back rather than be annoyed with the ridicule which has, time after time, been showered upon it.? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080724/f2128a58/attachment.html From Rsgwynn1 at cs.com Thu Jul 24 22:31:18 2008 From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com (Rsgwynn1@cs.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:40 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: a dead ear for scansion Message-ID: In a message dated 7/24/2008 11:50:19 AM Central Daylight Time, JforJames@aol.com writes: > > >> That's why I don't write anymore. I compose orally first, then write >> down what I've said. Do a lot these days while driving with a mini-recorder. >> > > > That's good to know, When I see you swerving along some Texas highway, I'll > know you're working on an ode, and I can keep a good distance. > > Hey, Texas highways are straight! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080724/5eaea70b/attachment.html From jbalizsprince at googlemail.com Fri Jul 25 08:59:31 2008 From: jbalizsprince at googlemail.com (Judy Prince) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:40 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] we murder to deflect In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7db1d01b0807250559k6c365b2bl737be8ff97865a85@mail.gmail.com> Like you, I had elementary and middle school training in sentence diagramming, word-parts, clauses, phrases, and vocabulary study. Beginning high school, though, the prevailing teaching mood was that knowing "grammar" was not useful for writing. In the late '80s through 2002 in the City Colleges of Chicago, I taught all levels of ESL and composition, as well as British and American novels, and film. Classes with as many as 20 different countries' natives really enlightened me---about my own language and about the relative "grammar" ignorance of second- and third- generation Americans. Whenever a grammar question came up, the "foreign" students knew the answers, the Americans did not. Judy 2008/7/24 : Gwynn to Graham: > > > Your practice is a sound one, I think. Teaching students to have an "ear" > is very tough, but some, I think, just don't have much sense of accent. > Maybe it comes from not being taught, in 4th grade or so, to break words > into syllables and mark the stressed ones. A lot of good stuff about > English has been lost along the way--syllabication, pronunciation, > vocabulary building, roots/prefixes/suffixes, even sentence diagramming. My > students these days are woefully deficient in basic terms of > grammar--subject, predicate, phrase, clause, etc. It's pretty hard to teach > so many things about poetry--diction, syntax, etc.--when the students have > so little grounding in these fundamentals. I've probably had no more than a > dozen advanced students in the past 20 years who know what a semicolon is > for. Students who have the best "ears" are invariably those who have had > dance or music or even aerobics. Maybe I should add ROTC. I wonder what it > would be like to teach a prosody course during military basic training! > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080725/df9667c8/attachment.html From halvard at earthlink.net Fri Jul 25 18:25:37 2008 From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:40 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] from San Miguel de Allende, Mexico In-Reply-To: <49893F9D954D4D52872C266E08B7B29A@AnnyPC> References: <49893F9D954D4D52872C266E08B7B29A@AnnyPC> Message-ID: God! I thought at first you said "my greatest horror," but may what I saw was a typpo. Hal "I can't understand it. I can't even understand the people who can understand it." --Queen Juliana of the Netherlands Halvard Johnson ================ halvard@earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html On Jul 21, 2008, at 5:03 PM, Anny Ballardini wrote: > dear New Poetry et Jforjames > > I've made it, a 24h trip back to La Bella Italia... and with my MFA > plus six extra credits. I also had time to take a heap of pics, and > to meet _my greatest honor_ Lynda Schor, Halvard Johnson, Ellie and > James Cervantes, all this in San Miguel! And much more, > > here you go: > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/52947935@N00/ > > I might on a rainy day add some titles to the pics, but I am sure > you will recognize many, > till soon, > > Anny the proud MFA > > > Anny Ballardini > http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ > http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome > http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html > I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a > dancing star! > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080725/de60142b/attachment.html From jbalizsprince at googlemail.com Fri Jul 25 19:33:13 2008 From: jbalizsprince at googlemail.com (Judy Prince) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:40 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] from San Miguel de Allende, Mexico In-Reply-To: References: <49893F9D954D4D52872C266E08B7B29A@AnnyPC> Message-ID: <7db1d01b0807251633l45c0ef0excd73bcf9ecdf0001@mail.gmail.com> ;-) 2008/7/25 Halvard Johnson : > God! I thought at first you said "my greatest horror,"but may what I saw > was a typpo. > > Hal > > "I can't understand it. I can't even understand > the people who can understand it." > --Queen Juliana of the Netherlands > > Halvard Johnson > ================ > halvard@earthlink.net > http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > http://www.hamiltonstone.org > http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html > > > On Jul 21, 2008, at 5:03 PM, Anny Ballardini wrote: > > dear New Poetry et Jforjames > > I've made it, a 24h trip back to *La Bella Italia*... and with my MFA plus > six extra credits. I also had time to take a heap of pics, and to meet _my > greatest honor_ Lynda Schor, Halvard Johnson, Ellie and James Cervantes, all > this in San Miguel! And much more, > > here you go: > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/52947935@N00/ > > I might on a rainy day add some titles to the pics, but I am sure you will > recognize many, > till soon, > > Anny the proud MFA > > > Anny Ballardini > http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ > http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome > http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html > I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing > star! > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080725/493af566/attachment.html From c288 at hotmail.com Sat Jul 26 00:08:46 2008 From: c288 at hotmail.com (Charmaine Pettit) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:40 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] from San Miguel de Allende, Mexico In-Reply-To: <7db1d01b0807251633l45c0ef0excd73bcf9ecdf0001@mail.gmail.com> References: <49893F9D954D4D52872C266E08B7B29A@AnnyPC> <7db1d01b0807251633l45c0ef0excd73bcf9ecdf0001@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: How lovely to match up faces and names after all these years.. San Miguel is on my list. Charmaine Pettit Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2008 19:33:13 -0400From: jbalizsprince@googlemail.comTo: new-poetry@wiz.cath.vt.eduSubject: Re: [New-Poetry] from San Miguel de Allende, Mexico ;-) 2008/7/25 Halvard Johnson : God! I thought at first you said "my greatest horror," but may what I saw was a typpo. Hal "I can't understand it. I can't even understand the people who can understand it." --Queen Juliana of the Netherlands Halvard Johnson ================ halvard@earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.comhttp://www.hamiltonstone.org http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html On Jul 21, 2008, at 5:03 PM, Anny Ballardini wrote: dear New Poetry et Jforjames I've made it, a 24h trip back to La Bella Italia... and with my MFA plus six extra credits. I also had time to take a heap of pics, and to meet _my greatest honor_ Lynda Schor, Halvard Johnson, Ellie and James Cervantes, all this in San Miguel! And much more, here you go: http://www.flickr.com/photos/52947935@N00/ I might on a rainy day add some titles to the pics, but I am sure you will recognize many, till soon, Anny the proud MFA Anny Ballardinihttp://annyballardini.blogspot.com/http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshomehttp://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.htmlI Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing listNew-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.eduhttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry_______________________________________________New-Poetry mailing listNew-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.eduhttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080725/961cd1c6/attachment.html From chris.lott at gmail.com Sat Jul 26 10:57:00 2008 From: chris.lott at gmail.com (Chris Lott) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:40 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] we murder to deflect In-Reply-To: References: <7906E3E29598483FAC2DB5DC38781BEB@win.louisiana.edu> Message-ID: <9b1b9dab0807260757r46a9d59ct8fd434ed8061c6b5@mail.gmail.com> On Thu, Jul 24, 2008 at 09:20, David Graham wrote: > Some scattered musings, not directed "against" anyone else's. > I confess that I was the newly-minted holder of an MFA in poetry before it > occurred to me that I knew almost nothing about traditional prosody. Though > I'd written in traditional forms as exercises along the way, I'd really > never dug deep and learned the basics. So I set about on a personal project > of reading up, devouring many books on prosody and fairly diligently > practicing things in my journal. Before it gets lost in the shuffle, my original query was not to debate prosody on this list (or any other), but to find out just what resources those who have studied the matter found useful to perhaps make my own personal project useful. Discussion of specific lines started as an illustration to show exactly the level I was starting from-- then got taken in another direction by those wanting to argue. Too bad it's not as easy as marking the "dictionary" stress of a word. *That* I have no problem with. c From chris.lott at gmail.com Sat Jul 26 11:06:32 2008 From: chris.lott at gmail.com (Chris Lott) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:40 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: a dead ear for scansion In-Reply-To: <7906E3E29598483FAC2DB5DC38781BEB@win.louisiana.edu> References: <75688.93073.qm@web54109.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <7906E3E29598483FAC2DB5DC38781BEB@win.louisiana.edu> Message-ID: <9b1b9dab0807260806n130a409aybf69865b2f032146@mail.gmail.com> On Thu, Jul 24, 2008 at 08:45, Skip Fox wrote: > > Which brings me back to where I jumped in arguing for the EAR over books. > Not that books can't point or help realize nuances. But that we all really > hear these stresses anyway and poets should learn to know how to listen. Not > knocking the wisdom of elders and wisers, it seems to me that the foundation > is best recognized (as though previously known) in the self. And this, for > me, would go for sound, idea, next choice for word or meal, companion, > appraisal of others, etc. I'd sure listen to others, but finally (and I hope > fairly) sound the matter on (in?) the self. As Robert Duncan wrote, we must > first be the authors of our own authority. Very romantic, I know, but there > it is. > When I learned to play guitar I learned by ear. That was good. But I am thankful for the performance classes I took later (though not too many of them) which taught me new techniques I might not have learned, or that would have taken a much longer time to learn, on my own. And I'm thankful for the music classes as well (though not too many of them), for giving me a way to go a bit deeper into what I was hearing and give me some language to efficiently describe it, particularly when speaking to others. However, I do feel that the "not too many of them" is an important characteristic! Now, there are those who maintain that music classes of both kinds are bad and that "real" guitarists learn and play only by ear. That may be OK with them, I think my way worked better for me. Maybe that means I'm no genius on the guitar, maybe not. Nor does it mean anything to me in the argument about knowing the rules and then breaking them. Like abstract painters who can draw, I suspect that little description *used* to be true more often than it is today... and maybe still is with good artists... c From david.bircumshaw at ntlworld.com Sat Jul 26 15:32:14 2008 From: david.bircumshaw at ntlworld.com (David Bircumshaw) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:40 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: a dead ear for scansion In-Reply-To: <9b1b9dab0807260806n130a409aybf69865b2f032146@mail.gmail.com> References: <75688.93073.qm@web54109.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <7906E3E29598483FAC2DB5DC38781BEB@win.louisiana.edu> <9b1b9dab0807260806n130a409aybf69865b2f032146@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <488B7BBE.9000103@ntlworld.com> I wouldn't want to say to much on this except that: anyone who learns to sing the traditional inheritance of hymns and liturgy will realise that scansion certainly does exist, at the same time, Robert Frost's criticism of free verse: that it is like playing tennis without a net, can be rejoindered with 'yes, that's the attraction'. As Auden observed, you have to have a perfect ear to write free verse. It's a Faustian turn-on. Trouble is, those who have no ear who write it, bah! -- David Bircumshaw Website and A Chide's Alphabet http://homepage.ntlworld.com/david.bircumshaw/ The Animal Subsides http://www.arrowheadpress.co.uk/books/animal.html Leicester Poetry Society: http://www.poetryleicester.co.uk From david.bircumshaw at ntlworld.com Sat Jul 26 16:54:33 2008 From: david.bircumshaw at ntlworld.com (David Bircumshaw) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:40 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: a dead ear for scansion In-Reply-To: <488B7BBE.9000103@ntlworld.com> References: <75688.93073.qm@web54109.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <7906E3E29598483FAC2DB5DC38781BEB@win.louisiana.edu> <9b1b9dab0807260806n130a409aybf69865b2f032146@mail.gmail.com> <488B7BBE.9000103@ntlworld.com> Message-ID: <488B8F09.1000506@ntlworld.com> > I wouldn't want to say to much on this except that: anyone who learns > to sing the traditional inheritance of hymns and liturgy will realise > that scansion certainly does exist, at the same time, Robert Frost's > criticism of free verse: that it is like playing tennis without a net, > can be rejoindered with 'yes, that's the attraction'. As Auden > observed, you have to have a perfect ear to write free verse. It's a > Faustian turn-on. Trouble is, those who have no ear who write it, bah! PS the thing about iambic pentameter: it's a matter of swagger. Rap doesn't do it, although it's as public as the Elizabethan-Jacobean stage, it's too pre-occupied with being ego, the Players started off from that point and rapidly went beyond it, they had to do dialogue, along with the afflatus, and the swagger went cosmic. The studious stuff that comes later diminishes with each generation. -- David Bircumshaw Website and A Chide's Alphabet http://homepage.ntlworld.com/david.bircumshaw/ The Animal Subsides http://www.arrowheadpress.co.uk/books/animal.html Leicester Poetry Society: http://www.poetryleicester.co.uk From Rsgwynn1 at cs.com Sat Jul 26 18:36:17 2008 From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com (Rsgwynn1@cs.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:41 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: a dead ear for scansion Message-ID: In a message dated 7/26/2008 2:32:35 PM Central Daylight Time, david.bircumshaw@ntlworld.com writes: > As Auden observed, > you have to have a perfect ear to write free verse. It's a Faustian > turn-on. Trouble is, those who have no ear who write it, bah! Unfortunately, Auden never told us how to get one! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080726/018e0a54/attachment.html From Rsgwynn1 at cs.com Sat Jul 26 18:38:55 2008 From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com (Rsgwynn1@cs.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:41 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: a dead ear for scansion Message-ID: In a message dated 7/26/2008 3:55:03 PM Central Daylight Time, david.bircumshaw@ntlworld.com writes: > > the thing about iambic pentameter: it's a matter of swagger. Rap doesn't > do it, although it's as public as the Elizabethan-Jacobean stage, it's > too pre-occupied with being ego, the Players started off from that > point and rapidly went beyond it, they had to do dialogue, along with > the afflatus, and the swagger went cosmic. > > The studious stuff that comes later diminishes with each generation. > Pope raps pretty well actually. The underlying 4-beat rhythm would survive the loudest of sub-woofers. I say "4-beat" because Pope's lines often have a weak syllable in the middle, even though his meter is pentameter. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080726/b068ddd5/attachment.html From halvard at earthlink.net Sat Jul 26 18:56:53 2008 From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:41 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: a dead ear for scansion In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5F9373A8-FA0C-460D-A08E-4FCB014923AC@earthlink.net> Mike Tyson had a way: you find someone who has an ear and then you bite it off. Hal "Things are more like they are now than they ever were." --Dwight David Eisenhower Halvard Johnson ================ halvard@earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html On Jul 26, 2008, at 5:36 PM, Rsgwynn1@cs.com wrote: > In a message dated 7/26/2008 2:32:35 PM Central Daylight Time, david.bircumshaw@ntlworld.com > writes: >> As Auden observed, >> you have to have a perfect ear to write free verse. It's a Faustian >> turn-on. Trouble is, those who have no ear who write it, bah! > > Unfortunately, Auden never told us how to get one! > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080726/7402ba90/attachment.html From brainboltpoet at gmail.com Sat Jul 26 18:59:29 2008 From: brainboltpoet at gmail.com (Beverly Rainbolt) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:41 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: a dead ear for scansion In-Reply-To: <5F9373A8-FA0C-460D-A08E-4FCB014923AC@earthlink.net> References: <5F9373A8-FA0C-460D-A08E-4FCB014923AC@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <5513eaa0807261559g7efd2e1clf074476fbb69d924@mail.gmail.com> Hal, you've said an earful. Beverly On Sat, Jul 26, 2008 at 5:56 PM, Halvard Johnson wrote: > Mike Tyson had a way: you find someone who hasan ear and then you bite it > off. > > Hal > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080726/b91a47d0/attachment.html From Rsgwynn1 at cs.com Sat Jul 26 20:10:32 2008 From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com (Rsgwynn1@cs.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:41 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: a dead ear for scansion Message-ID: In a message dated 7/26/2008 5:59:40 PM Central Daylight Time, brainboltpoet@gmail.com writes: > > Hal, you've said an earful. > In Mike's case, a mouthful. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080726/206c7112/attachment.html From david.bircumshaw at ntlworld.com Sat Jul 26 20:31:05 2008 From: david.bircumshaw at ntlworld.com (David Bircumshaw) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:41 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: a dead ear for scansion In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <488BC1C9.9030902@ntlworld.com> > n a message dated 7/26/2008 3:55:03 PM Central Daylight Time, > david.bircumshaw@ntlworld.com writes: >> >> the thing about iambic pentameter: it's a matter of swagger. Rap doesn't >> do it, although it's as public as the Elizabethan-Jacobean stage, it's >> too pre-occupied with being ego, the Players started off from that >> point and rapidly went beyond it, they had to do dialogue, along with >> the afflatus, and the swagger went cosmic. >> >> The studious stuff that comes later diminishes with each generation. > > Pope raps pretty well actually. The underlying 4-beat rhythm would > survive the loudest of sub-woofers. I say "4-beat" because Pope's > lines often have a weak syllable in the middle, even though his meter > is pentameter. > Yup, this is the thing, from the four to the five, if you want to make it big, so to to speak. There are lots of mini-lyrical options if you don't want to go that far, but it goes like this: Marley discovers the big line for in public, Shaksper works out how to play it like a ballad tune and more, and more, than anybody else did, Jonson becomes the first critic, Donne refuges in rough, Marvell discovers the voice of the civil servant, after then its mainly downhill, the romantics find some tricks, like Keats expanding the quatrain of the sonnet, but always there's the ghost of Milton trying to be the last possible poet, just as Pound and Eliot tried , differently, to be. -- David Bircumshaw Website and A Chide's Alphabet http://homepage.ntlworld.com/david.bircumshaw/ The Animal Subsides http://www.arrowheadpress.co.uk/books/animal.html Leicester Poetry Society: http://www.poetryleicester.co.uk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080727/6d224e5a/attachment.html From GrahamD at ripon.edu Sun Jul 27 08:38:43 2008 From: GrahamD at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:41 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Visual poetry Message-ID: Featured at *Anti-* http://anti-poetry.com/anti/basinskimi ======================================== David Graham grahamd@ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.mac.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080727/f7b18cd8/attachment.html From anny.ballardini at tin.it Sun Jul 27 15:27:04 2008 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:41 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Visual poetry In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Interesting work, thanks for the link. ----- Original Message ----- From: David Graham To: new-poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu & Views Sent: Sunday, July 27, 2008 2:38 PM Subject: [New-Poetry] Visual poetry Featured at *Anti-* http://anti-poetry.com/anti/basinskimi ======================================== David Graham grahamd@ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.mac.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080727/fa33d53a/attachment.html From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sun Jul 27 19:28:45 2008 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:41 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Visual poetry In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <488D04AD.2050702@nut-n-but.net> Basinski is one of my Major Poets, and I love these three things of his. I'm not sure I'd call them poems, though. --Bob G. From JforJames at aol.com Sun Jul 27 19:39:15 2008 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames@aol.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:41 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: a dead ear for scansion Message-ID: In a message dated 7/26/2008 6:57:31 PM Eastern Daylight Time, halvard@earthlink.net writes: Mike Tyson had a way: you find someone who has an ear and then you bite it off. Van Gogh did in his one good one. So it goes. **************Get fantasy football with free live scoring. Sign up for FanHouse Fantasy Football today. (http://www.fanhouse.com/fantasyaffair?ncid=aolspr00050000000020) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080727/698b6e41/attachment.html From robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com Sun Jul 27 21:55:18 2008 From: robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com (Robin Hamilton) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:41 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: a dead ear for scansion References: <488BC1C9.9030902@ntlworld.com> Message-ID: <023701c8f054$fd4cd850$4101a8c0@CoreDuo> All varieties of English are isochronic between stresses -- this is probably the fundamental linguistic observation to be made, and over-rides the differences between the five possible metrical systems (stress, syllable-accent, qualitative, syllabic, dipodic, and "free verse"). [Yes, I know that counts six -- there's a deliberate elide around "free verse".] Syllable-accent metrics has a(n) (un)happy history from roughly 1500 (earlier, if you count Chaucer, or The Owl and the Nightingale) to 1900. [dave cherry-picked The Shakespearean Moment, but there's a before-and-after to this.] Metrical stress (ictus) is contrastive rather than absolute, which is why I'd go +much+ further than Sam Gwynn in rejecting anything other than a two-stress notation for describing metrical patterns (rather than the rhythm) of a poem. Rhythm (which is what finally matters) in syllable-accent metrics is produced by the tension between natural speech stress and the abstract metrical pattern. There will tend to be a greater agreement over the metre of a poem than its rhythm. Or perhaps better to say, different arguments will result when we discuss the (possible) metre(s) of a poem as against its rhythms. Just some thoughts ... Robin Hamilton -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080728/dbd6401a/attachment.html From jbalizsprince at googlemail.com Sun Jul 27 22:58:28 2008 From: jbalizsprince at googlemail.com (Judy Prince) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:41 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: a dead ear for scansion In-Reply-To: <023701c8f054$fd4cd850$4101a8c0@CoreDuo> References: <488BC1C9.9030902@ntlworld.com> <023701c8f054$fd4cd850$4101a8c0@CoreDuo> Message-ID: <7db1d01b0807271958s6d4cb66er32efc144da6082dc@mail.gmail.com> Ahem. Dr. Hamilton, I'd ask you to translate your English into English, but then where'd the fun be?! So you're saying that what we note down on paper in any of several ways to show a stressed (let's call it a "lunge" of "aggressive") word-bit or an unstressed ("limp" or "passive") bit would be called Metre. And what we speak or hear would be called Rhythm. What Sam and you are saying is that The Other Stuff (such as sustained sound and pitch) that isn't noted in anybody's metrical system (including the Judy Scansion system), is an important element in sussing the wholeness - the musicality - of poetry. Who could not agree with that?! Good thing you revised your nearly-last thought. It leads me to a related idea that's simmered for a few days with the weather. Those unrecorded bits [though music notation _does_ record much of what we're not noting in our metrical systems for language] such as sustained sound and pitch, add essential dimension to what we hear. Let me explain by relating it to Chinese. One of only four "tones" is used for each "syllable" in Chinese. If you say "ma" in the "wrong" tone, it will mean something entirely different than if you said "ma" in the "right" tone---the difference between a horse and a word that says "?" (i.e., marks the preceding words as a question). That's the easy part of Chinese. Linking several syllables, properly toned, together is the trickier part for a non-Asian-language speaker. Here's the part that further relates to musicality, the whole enchilada of poetry's "sound": Those four tones have a slightly-more-complex-than-just-stressed aspect. They sound, at times, like Chinese instruments from gongs to pipas and gujengs. The first tone is high and flat; second is lower and rising; third is still lower and rising; the fourth descends sharply from on high like (forgive me, mom) saying "Sh-t!" ("Sh-te" in Scottish). Several simple systems are used to represent the four tones. Westerners' systems for representing English metre are one-dimensional, as we've noted. Easterners' systems don't need to be complex because there're fewer "constellations" of separate tones (just four, in Chinese). I believe the Vietnamese language has many more tones than the Chinese, and I'd be interested to hear from someone who could compare it with Chinese and English. Judy 2008/7/27 Robin Hamilton > All varieties of English are isochronic between stresses -- this is > probably the fundamental linguistic observation to be made, and over-rides > the differences between the five possible metrical systems (stress, > syllable-accent, qualitative, syllabic, dipodic, and "free verse"). > > [Yes, I know that counts six -- there's a deliberate elide > around "free verse".] > > Syllable-accent metrics has a(n) (un)happy history from roughly 1500 > (earlier, if you count Chaucer, or The Owl and the Nightingale) to 1900. > > [dave cherry-picked The Shakespearean Moment, but there's a > before-and-after to this.] > > Metrical stress (ictus) is contrastive rather than absolute, which is why > I'd go +much+ further than Sam Gwynn in rejecting anything other than a > two-stress notation for describing metrical patterns (rather than the > rhythm) of a poem. > > Rhythm (which is what finally matters) in syllable-accent metrics is > produced by the tension between natural speech stress and the abstract > metrical pattern. > > There will tend to be a greater agreement over the metre of a poem than its > rhythm. > > Or perhaps better to say, different arguments will result when we discuss > the (possible) metre(s) of a poem as against its rhythms. > > Just some thoughts ... > > Robin Hamilton > > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080727/1986c738/attachment.html From david.bircumshaw at ntlworld.com Mon Jul 28 06:37:25 2008 From: david.bircumshaw at ntlworld.com (David Bircumshaw) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:41 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: a dead ear for scansion In-Reply-To: <023701c8f054$fd4cd850$4101a8c0@CoreDuo> References: <488BC1C9.9030902@ntlworld.com> <023701c8f054$fd4cd850$4101a8c0@CoreDuo> Message-ID: <488DA165.9060101@ntlworld.com> > [dave cherry-picked The Shakespearean Moment, but there's a > before-and-after to this.] Bugger, Hamilton, you caught me out there! Anyhow, I'm in mourning, as the Grand Pier at Weston-super-Mare has gone up in flames. Much of my childhood has been incinerated with that. Boo-hoo. Best Dave -- David Bircumshaw Website and A Chide's Alphabet http://homepage.ntlworld.com/david.bircumshaw/ The Animal Subsides http://www.arrowheadpress.co.uk/books/animal.html Leicester Poetry Society: http://www.poetryleicester.co.uk From editor at pavementsaw.org Mon Jul 28 14:57:46 2008 From: editor at pavementsaw.org (David Baratier) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:42 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: New-Poetry Digest, Vol 49, Issue 36 In-Reply-To: <200807281600.m6SG05kG001152@wiz.cath.vt.edu> Message-ID: <296456.71300.qm@web45603.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> But would you call them anti-poetry? >Basinski is one of my Major Poets, and I love these three things of >his. I'm not sure I'd call them poems, though. >--Bob G. Be well David Baratier, Editor Pavement Saw Press 321 Empire Street Montpelier OH 43543 http://pavementsaw.org Subscribe to our e-mail listserv at http://pavementsaw.org/list/?p=subscribe&id=1 --- On Mon, 7/28/08, new-poetry-request@wiz.cath.vt.edu wrote: > From: new-poetry-request@wiz.cath.vt.edu > Subject: New-Poetry Digest, Vol 49, Issue 36 > To: new-poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > Date: Monday, July 28, 2008, 4:00 PM > Send New-Poetry mailing list submissions to > new-poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > or, via email, send a message with subject or body > 'help' to > new-poetry-request@wiz.cath.vt.edu > > You can reach the person managing the list at > new-poetry-owner@wiz.cath.vt.edu > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more > specific > than "Re: Contents of New-Poetry digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: Visual poetry (Anny Ballardini) > 2. Re: Visual poetry (Bob Grumman) > 3. Re: Re: a dead ear for scansion (JforJames@aol.com) > 4. Re: Re: a dead ear for scansion (Robin Hamilton) > 5. Re: Re: a dead ear for scansion (Judy Prince) > 6. Re: Re: a dead ear for scansion (David Bircumshaw) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2008 21:27:04 +0200 > From: "Anny Ballardini" > > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Visual poetry > To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News > & Views" > > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > Interesting work, thanks for the link. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: David Graham > To: new-poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu & Views > Sent: Sunday, July 27, 2008 2:38 PM > Subject: [New-Poetry] Visual poetry > > > Featured at *Anti-* > > > http://anti-poetry.com/anti/basinskimi > > > > > > > > > ======================================== > David Graham > grahamd@ripon.edu > > > Home Page: > http://web.mac.com/drjazz > > > Poetry Library: > http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html > ========================================== > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080727/fa33d53a/attachment-0001.html > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2008 18:28:45 -0500 > From: Bob Grumman > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Visual poetry > To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News > & Views" > > Message-ID: <488D04AD.2050702@nut-n-but.net> > Content-Type: text/plain;charset=ISO-8859-1;format=flowed > > Basinski is one of my Major Poets, and I love these three > things of > his. I'm not sure I'd call them poems, though. > > --Bob G. > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2008 19:39:15 EDT > From: JforJames@aol.com > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Re: a dead ear for scansion > To: new-poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > > In a message dated 7/26/2008 6:57:31 PM Eastern Daylight > Time, > halvard@earthlink.net writes: > > Mike Tyson had a way: you find someone who has > an ear and then you bite it off. > > > > Van Gogh did in his one good one. So it goes. > > > > > **************Get fantasy football with free live scoring. > Sign up for > FanHouse Fantasy Football today. > (http://www.fanhouse.com/fantasyaffair?ncid=aolspr00050000000020) > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080727/698b6e41/attachment-0001.html > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2008 02:55:18 +0100 > From: "Robin Hamilton" > > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Re: a dead ear for scansion > To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News > & Views" > > Message-ID: <023701c8f054$fd4cd850$4101a8c0@CoreDuo> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > All varieties of English are isochronic between stresses -- > this is probably the fundamental linguistic observation to > be made, and over-rides the differences between the five > possible metrical systems (stress, syllable-accent, > qualitative, syllabic, dipodic, and "free verse"). > > [Yes, I know that counts six -- there's > a deliberate elide around "free verse".] > > Syllable-accent metrics has a(n) (un)happy history from > roughly 1500 (earlier, if you count Chaucer, or The Owl and > the Nightingale) to 1900. > > [dave cherry-picked The Shakespearean > Moment, but there's a before-and-after to this.] > > Metrical stress (ictus) is contrastive rather than > absolute, which is why I'd go +much+ further than Sam > Gwynn in rejecting anything other than a two-stress notation > for describing metrical patterns (rather than the rhythm) of > a poem. > > Rhythm (which is what finally matters) in syllable-accent > metrics is produced by the tension between natural speech > stress and the abstract metrical pattern. > > There will tend to be a greater agreement over the metre of > a poem than its rhythm. > > Or perhaps better to say, different arguments will result > when we discuss the (possible) metre(s) of a poem as against > its rhythms. > > Just some thoughts ... > > Robin Hamilton > > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080728/dbd6401a/attachment-0001.html > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2008 22:58:28 -0400 > From: "Judy Prince" > > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Re: a dead ear for scansion > To: "Robin Hamilton" > , "NewPoetry: > Contemporary Poetry News &, Views" > > Message-ID: > <7db1d01b0807271958s6d4cb66er32efc144da6082dc@mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > Ahem. Dr. Hamilton, I'd ask you to translate your > English into English, but > then where'd the fun be?! > So you're saying that what we note down on paper in any > of several ways to > show a stressed (let's call it a "lunge" of > "aggressive") word-bit or an > unstressed ("limp" or "passive") bit > would be called Metre. > > And what we speak or hear would be called Rhythm. > > What Sam and you are saying is that The Other Stuff (such > as sustained sound > and pitch) that isn't noted in anybody's metrical > system (including the Judy > Scansion system), is an important element in sussing the > wholeness - the > musicality - of poetry. > > Who could not agree with that?! > > Good thing you revised your nearly-last thought. It leads > me to a related > idea that's simmered for a few days with the weather. > > Those unrecorded bits [though music notation _does_ record > much of what > we're not noting in our metrical systems for language] > such as sustained > sound and pitch, add essential dimension to what we hear. > Let me explain by > relating it to Chinese. One of only four "tones" > is used for each > "syllable" in Chinese. If you say "ma" > in the "wrong" tone, it will mean > something entirely different than if you said > "ma" in the "right" tone---the > difference between a horse and a word that says > "?" (i.e., marks the > preceding words as a question). That's the easy part > of Chinese. Linking > several syllables, properly toned, together is the trickier > part for a > non-Asian-language speaker. Here's the part that > further relates to > musicality, the whole enchilada of poetry's > "sound": Those four tones have > a slightly-more-complex-than-just-stressed aspect. They > sound, at times, > like Chinese instruments from gongs to pipas and gujengs. > The first tone is > high and flat; second is lower and rising; third is still > lower and rising; > the fourth descends sharply from on high like (forgive me, > mom) saying > "Sh-t!" ("Sh-te" in Scottish). Several > simple systems are used to represent > the four tones. Westerners' systems for representing > English metre are > one-dimensional, as we've noted. Easterners' > systems don't need to be > complex because there're fewer > "constellations" of separate tones (just > four, in Chinese). I believe the Vietnamese language has > many more tones > than the Chinese, and I'd be interested to hear from > someone who could > compare it with Chinese and English. > > Judy > > > 2008/7/27 Robin Hamilton > > > > All varieties of English are isochronic between > stresses -- this is > > probably the fundamental linguistic observation to be > made, and over-rides > > the differences between the five possible metrical > systems (stress, > > syllable-accent, qualitative, syllabic, dipodic, and > "free verse"). > > > > [Yes, I know that counts six -- > there's a deliberate elide > > around "free verse".] > > > > Syllable-accent metrics has a(n) (un)happy history > from roughly 1500 > > (earlier, if you count Chaucer, or The Owl and the > Nightingale) to 1900. > > > > [dave cherry-picked The Shakespearean > Moment, but there's a > > before-and-after to this.] > > > > Metrical stress (ictus) is contrastive rather than > absolute, which is why > > I'd go +much+ further than Sam Gwynn in rejecting > anything other than a > > two-stress notation for describing metrical patterns > (rather than the > > rhythm) of a poem. > > > > Rhythm (which is what finally matters) in > syllable-accent metrics is > > produced by the tension between natural speech stress > and the abstract > > metrical pattern. > > > > There will tend to be a greater agreement over the > metre of a poem than its > > rhythm. > > > > Or perhaps better to say, different arguments will > result when we discuss > > the (possible) metre(s) of a poem as against its > rhythms. > > > > Just some thoughts ... > > > > Robin Hamilton > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080727/1986c738/attachment-0001.html > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 6 > Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2008 11:37:25 +0100 > From: David Bircumshaw > > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Re: a dead ear for scansion > To: Robin Hamilton > , "NewPoetry: > Contemporary Poetry News & Views" > > Message-ID: <488DA165.9060101@ntlworld.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > > [dave cherry-picked The Shakespearean Moment, but > there's a > > before-and-after to this.] > Bugger, Hamilton, you caught me out there! > > Anyhow, I'm in mourning, as the Grand Pier at > Weston-super-Mare has gone > up in flames. Much of my childhood has been incinerated > with that. Boo-hoo. > > Best > > Dave > > -- > > David Bircumshaw > Website and A Chide's Alphabet > http://homepage.ntlworld.com/david.bircumshaw/ > The Animal Subsides > http://www.arrowheadpress.co.uk/books/animal.html > Leicester Poetry Society: http://www.poetryleicester.co.uk > > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > End of New-Poetry Digest, Vol 49, Issue 36 > ****************************************** From skip at louisiana.edu Mon Jul 28 15:16:05 2008 From: skip at louisiana.edu (Skip Fox) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:42 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: a dead ear for scansion In-Reply-To: <7db1d01b0807271958s6d4cb66er32efc144da6082dc@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4F8D6DAB29F34B2F90811BEC0AD0ABB9@win.louisiana.edu> Once more with feeling: If you didn't hear the rhythms, you couldn't speak the language. Not sensibly. (Aside: If you want to see a linguist smile, tell him you can't hear the language's rhythm.) I rarely make bald literal sentences and then bluntly insist upon them, but. . . . Hell, native English speakers even know that they will speak a rhythm-based language when in the womb. (Chinese kids/fetuses in the womb learn that theirs will be pitched based. Roman kids/fetuses learned theirs would be a durative one, Latin.) The fact that rhythm is just one of a myriad of factors (though one of the most prominent of them) makes us realize how incredibly complex and delicate the language is, it doesn't argue against rhythm. In class when teaching scansion I simply say, You don't want to put the emphasis on the wrong syllable, doing just that the words emphasis and syllable (an old joke of my father). After a half-of-a-second even the sleeper students get it. As do we all, whether we know it or not. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080728/78bb005a/attachment.html From jforjames at aol.com Mon Jul 28 20:46:30 2008 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames@aol.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:42 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] =?utf-8?q?Little_known_20th_C_Poet=3As=3A_Jos=C3=A9?= =?utf-8?q?_Garcia_Villa?= Message-ID: <8CABF2BACBB6D15-128C-410@webmail-me03.sysops.aol.com> http://showbizandstyle.inquirer.net/lifestyle/lifestyle/view/20080728-151062/Jos-Garcia-Villas-poetry-now-part-of-Penguin-Classics REVIEW Jos? Garcia Villa?s poetry now part of Penguin Classics By Ruel S. De Vera Philippine Daily Inquirer First Posted 00:23:00 07/28/2008 MANILA, Philippines - Playing with shadow and spark, the book?s cover exemplifies the multifarious nature of its author, the poet Jos? Garcia Villa. Tipped one way, the cover shows a young Villa?s profile, and tipped another, the words dove, eagle and lion emerge. Doveglion, an amalgamation of the three words, was Villa?s pen name, and is emblematic of the iconoclastic and meaningful writing life possessed by Villa, born in 1908, died in 1997, and named a National Artist for Literature. That unmatched resonance is captured and celebrated in ?Doveglion: Collected Poems? (Penguin Classics, New York, 2008, 260 pages), edited by John Edwin Cowen with an introduction by Luis H. Francia. To be included in the august Penguin Classics line is honor enough, but the book comes on the occasion of the centennial of Villa?s birth. It is the perfect time then for an entirely new generation of Filipino readers to discover one of our literature?s most original and powerful voices. Easily recognized are Villa?s comma poems, -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080728/7e3c3dc8/attachment.html From Rsgwynn1 at cs.com Mon Jul 28 22:38:57 2008 From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com (Rsgwynn1@cs.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:42 2009 Subject: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Re:=20[New-Poetry]=20Little=20known=2020th=20C=20?= =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Poet:s:=20Jos=E9=20Garcia=20Villa?= Message-ID: Louis Simpson wrote a funny, but sympathetic, essay some years ago about J. G. V.'s career. He is, by the way, prominent in that famous Gotham Book Mart photo of All Those Poets. He seems, belatedly, to have been an LangPo precursor. I'll get the book! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080728/5abfa9af/attachment.html From david.bircumshaw at ntlworld.com Mon Jul 28 23:22:52 2008 From: david.bircumshaw at ntlworld.com (David Bircumshaw) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:42 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Little known 20th C Poet:s: =?UTF-8?B?Sm9zw6kgRw==?= =?UTF-8?B?YXJjaWEgVmlsbGE=?= In-Reply-To: <8CABF2BACBB6D15-128C-410@webmail-me03.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CABF2BACBB6D15-128C-410@webmail-me03.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <488E8D0C.5070605@ntlworld.com> Inviting a tiger for the weekend, eh? Nice. -- David Bircumshaw Website and A Chide's Alphabet http://homepage.ntlworld.com/david.bircumshaw/ The Animal Subsides http://www.arrowheadpress.co.uk/books/animal.html Leicester Poetry Society: http://www.poetryleicester.co.uk From jforjames at aol.com Tue Jul 29 11:34:07 2008 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames@aol.com) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:42 2009 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[New-Poetry]_Little_known_20th_C_Poet:s:_Jos=C3=A9_Garcia_V?==?utf-8?Q?illa?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8CABFA7AC5290B9-158C-5FA@mblk-d43.sysops.aol.com> I encountered a few of Villa's poems in old?anthology. It was unusual to see any poet with Spanish/Hispanic name in an American/English Poetry anthology of the time. The poems in that?particular?book were pretty straightforward. More investigation of his work, though, revealed his 'technique' of liberally sprinkling?commas between words. Innovative, I guess, but also distracting. All those little?black sickles dangling under the text.?Depending on typeface chosen the comma can be rather subdued or a more obtrusive mark, and in?the o.p. book I picked up at a used bookstore the commas seemed more the latter. Alice Notley?in Descent of Allete used quote marks in a similar fashion to break up?the language/speech into discrete phrases and words, &?thus?call more attention to the elements (perhaps more attention than they should get). I thought in one book she used = signs in a similar fashion... but I may be confusing her with someone else. It's true that once you've read?enough of the heavliy punctuated work it starts to recede and become only intermittantly noticeble...the effect wanes/wears off,?you could?say.?Perhaps these 'excessively divisive techniques' owe something to Dickinson's dashes. Has anyone written extensively on the 'eccentric' or 'idiosyncratic'?uses of punctuation in poetry? Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: Rsgwynn1@cs.com To: new-poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Mon, 28 Jul 2008 10:38 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Little known 20th C Poet:s: Jos? Garcia Villa 0A Louis Simpson wrote a funny, but sympathetic, essay some years ago about J. G. V.'s career.? He is, by the way, prominent in that famous Gotham Book Mart photo of All Those Poets.? He seems, belatedly, to have been an LangPo precursor. I'll get the book! _______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080729/39247e00/attachment.html From anny.ballardini at tin.it Tue Jul 29 14:15:39 2008 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:42 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fw: New Minnesota and Upper Midwest Books from University of Minnesota Press Message-ID: <4C1739694EBF4652999E0B9FE313977E@AnnyPC> Skipped content of type multipart/alternative-------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/jpeg Size: 15653 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080729/a4bc4a7a/attachment.jpe -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... 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Name: not available Type: image/jpeg Size: 8356 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080729/a4bc4a7a/attachment-0003.jpe From anny.ballardini at tin.it Tue Jul 29 16:29:23 2008 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:42 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] message from Tight Message-ID: <70ADD81B5C2D4FEDA60417FC0AC980D0@AnnyPC> Michael Schiavo sent a message to the members of Tight. -------------------- Subject: Tight 3 (and Tight 4) Hello Friends of Tight, We all hate being inundated with these Facebook messages so we here at Tight try to keep them to a minimum. We wanted to remind you all that Tight 3 is now available to order from the Northshire Bookstore (www.northshire.com). Just copy and paste our ISBN (9781605710020) into the search field or call toll free 1-800-437-3700. You can talk to an actual person! Be sure to ask about the media mail shipping rate which will save you some money. There are, as of this message, 455 members in this group. Our goal is to sell 400 copies of Tight 3 through the Northshire to show the power of independent presses and bookstores. If every person in this group bought just one copy of Tight-for yourself, a friend, a relative-we'd more than accomplish our goal. (We do have a few copies of Tight 3 available if you'd like to write a review so please email us at tightjournal@gmail.com if you're interested.) Also, to whet your appetite, Tight 4 will be released this fall featuring work from Jeffery Beam, Edmund Berrigan, Jackie Clark, Peter Davis, Corinne Fitzpatrick, Matt Henriksen, Jennifer L. Knox, Mark Lamoureux, Dora Malech, Thomas Meyer, Mary Millsap, Paul Muldoon, Matt Reeck, Aaron Tieger, Eric Unger, Karen Weiser, Mac Wellman, Dustin Williamson, Terence Winch, and Sara Wintz. Stay free, Cooper MacBride, Tight Intern -------------------- To reply to this message, follow the link below: http://www.facebook.com/n/?inbox/readmessage.php&t=1019077361364 ___ Want to control which emails you receive from Facebook? Go to: http://www.facebook.com/editaccount.php?notifications&md=bXNnO2Zyb209MjQyMDgwODY7dD0xMDE5MDc3MzYxMzY0O3RvPTUxMjE1MTYwNA== -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080729/1ac22021/attachment.html From halvard at earthlink.net Tue Jul 29 16:44:32 2008 From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:42 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Toot! Message-ID: <27B63674-DC76-40C1-A62B-6AB2CFDF6183@earthlink.net> If you're passing by your neighborhood news stand and happen to see the July/August issue of The Bloomsbury Review there, take a look at p. 7, where you'll find a brief piece of mine called "On Movies." As you were. Hal ". . . the old is too old and the new is too old." --Gertrude Stein Halvard Johnson ================ halvard@earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080729/674654a7/attachment.html From alexdickow9 at yahoo.com Wed Jul 30 06:16:41 2008 From: alexdickow9 at yahoo.com (Alexander Dickow) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:42 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] on idiosyncratic punctuation? In-Reply-To: <200807291556.m6TFuokH025052@wiz.cath.vt.edu> Message-ID: <313956.69711.qm@web35501.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I second the question: anyone know of stuff written about unusual uses of punctuation? Max Jacob uses his rather oddly (but not in the prose poems). Am also curious if anyone has any tips for promoting a book of poetry; I'm sorta new to such things. More news soon -- Amicalement, Alex From amyhappens at yahoo.com Wed Jul 30 17:50:05 2008 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:43 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Invitation To Participate in Poems, Poets, Love! A HOWL Festival Event (from Nathaniel Siegel) Message-ID: <417072.51945.qm@web83302.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> poems ! poets !! LOVE !!! ? On Monday Sept 8th 2008 a HOWL ! Festival event: Nathaniel Siegel hosts an Open Reading >From 12noon to 6pm At The Bowery Poetry Club 308 Bowery New York 10012 Phone 1 212 614 0505 www.bowerypoetry.com ? You are invited to read ! Here?s how to participate: RSVP via email to nathanielsiegel@nyc.rr.com with your name, the title of the poem you plan on reading & or the name of the poet whose work you will be reading & the time you would like to be signed up for. ? poems ! poets !! LOVE !!! is FREE and Open to the Public ! ? The HOWL ! Festival? www.howlfestival.com ? _______ Recent http://www.tarpaulinsky.com/Reviews/kiss-me.html http://jacketmagazine.com/34/dickow-king.shtml Alias http://www.amyking.org Your Suggestions http://amyking.wordpress.com/2008/06/12/poetry-exercises-wanted/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080730/2133f1d6/attachment.html From amyhappens at yahoo.com Wed Jul 30 18:02:26 2008 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:43 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] A New Coconut! Message-ID: <211450.89146.qm@web83307.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Dear Coconut friends, ? Coconut 13?with new poems by Rae Armantrout, David Lehman, Ariana Reines, Teresa K. Miller, Kate Colby, Carrie Olivia Adams, James Belflower, Anne Marie Rooney, Kristi Maxwell, Jason Zuzga, Megan Kaminski, Christopher Higgs, Nellie Haack, Claire Donato, Ravi Shankar, Emily Anderson, Laynie Browne, Jonathan Doherty, Kathleen Jesme, Matina Stamatakis, Mike Young, and Terence Winch--is now live on the web!!! ? Also,?please keep an eye on?the Best American Poetry?blog (http://thebestamericanpoetry.typepad.com/)?for a new Coconut feature series, beginning this coming Sunday, August 3,?and continuing?all the way through the end of October!! ? See you under the palms! Bruce Covey ? http://www.coconutpoetry.org http://www.coconutpoetry.org http://www.coconutpoetry.org _______ Recent http://www.tarpaulinsky.com/Reviews/kiss-me.html http://jacketmagazine.com/34/dickow-king.shtml Alias http://www.amyking.org Your Suggestions http://amyking.wordpress.com/2008/06/12/poetry-exercises-wanted/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080730/025e7406/attachment.html From amyhappens at yahoo.com Wed Jul 30 18:04:21 2008 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:43 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Invitation To Participate in Poems, Poets, Love! A HOWL Festival Event (from Nathaniel Siegel) Message-ID: <282649.62846.qm@web83315.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> poems ! poets !! LOVE !!! ? On Monday Sept 8th 2008 a HOWL ! Festival event: Nathaniel Siegel hosts an Open Reading >From 12noon to 6pm At The Bowery Poetry Club 308 Bowery New York 10012 Phone 1 212 614 0505 www.bowerypoetry.com ? You are invited to read ! Here?s how to participate: RSVP via email to nathanielsiegel@nyc.rr.com with your name, the title of the poem you plan on reading & or the name of the poet whose work you will be reading & the time you would like to be signed up for. ? poems ! poets !! LOVE !!! is FREE and Open to the Public ! ? The HOWL ! Festival? www.howlfestival.com _______ Recent http://www.tarpaulinsky.com/Reviews/kiss-me.html http://jacketmagazine.com/34/dickow-king.shtml Alias http://www.amyking.org Your Suggestions http://amyking.wordpress.com/2008/06/12/poetry-exercises-wanted/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080730/12c07064/attachment.html From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Wed Jul 30 20:50:48 2008 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:43 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: New-Poetry Digest, Vol 49, Issue 36 In-Reply-To: <296456.71300.qm@web45603.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: <296456.71300.qm@web45603.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <48910C68.7070901@nut-n-but.net> David Baratier wrote: > But would you call them anti-poetry? > No. Politicians' speeches, stuff like that, are anti-poetry. I'd call Mike's pieces textual illumagery, "illumagery" being my term for visual art. --Bob G. > >> Basinski is one of my Major Poets, and I love these three things of >> his. I'm not sure I'd call them poems, though. >> > > >> --Bob G. >> > > > Be well > > David Baratier, Editor > > Pavement Saw Press > 321 Empire Street > Montpelier OH 43543 > http://pavementsaw.org > > Subscribe to our e-mail listserv at > http://pavementsaw.org/list/?p=subscribe&id=1 > > > --- On Mon, 7/28/08, new-poetry-request@wiz.cath.vt.edu wrote: > > >> From: new-poetry-request@wiz.cath.vt.edu >> Subject: New-Poetry Digest, Vol 49, Issue 36 >> To: new-poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu >> Date: Monday, July 28, 2008, 4:00 PM >> Send New-Poetry mailing list submissions to >> new-poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu >> >> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> or, via email, send a message with subject or body >> 'help' to >> new-poetry-request@wiz.cath.vt.edu >> >> You can reach the person managing the list at >> new-poetry-owner@wiz.cath.vt.edu >> >> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more >> specific >> than "Re: Contents of New-Poetry digest..." >> >> >> Today's Topics: >> >> 1. Re: Visual poetry (Anny Ballardini) >> 2. Re: Visual poetry (Bob Grumman) >> 3. Re: Re: a dead ear for scansion (JforJames@aol.com) >> 4. Re: Re: a dead ear for scansion (Robin Hamilton) >> 5. Re: Re: a dead ear for scansion (Judy Prince) >> 6. Re: Re: a dead ear for scansion (David Bircumshaw) >> >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> Message: 1 >> Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2008 21:27:04 +0200 >> From: "Anny Ballardini" >> >> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Visual poetry >> To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News >> & Views" >> >> Message-ID: >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" >> >> Interesting work, thanks for the link. >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: David Graham >> To: new-poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu & Views >> Sent: Sunday, July 27, 2008 2:38 PM >> Subject: [New-Poetry] Visual poetry >> >> >> Featured at *Anti-* >> >> >> http://anti-poetry.com/anti/basinskimi >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ======================================== >> David Graham >> grahamd@ripon.edu >> >> >> Home Page: >> http://web.mac.com/drjazz >> >> >> Poetry Library: >> http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html >> ========================================== >> >> -------------- next part -------------- >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >> URL: >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080727/fa33d53a/attachment-0001.html >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 2 >> Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2008 18:28:45 -0500 >> From: Bob Grumman >> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Visual poetry >> To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News >> & Views" >> >> Message-ID: <488D04AD.2050702@nut-n-but.net> >> Content-Type: text/plain;charset=ISO-8859-1;format=flowed >> >> Basinski is one of my Major Poets, and I love these three >> things of >> his. I'm not sure I'd call them poems, though. >> >> --Bob G. >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 3 >> Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2008 19:39:15 EDT >> From: JforJames@aol.com >> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Re: a dead ear for scansion >> To: new-poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu >> Message-ID: >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >> >> >> In a message dated 7/26/2008 6:57:31 PM Eastern Daylight >> Time, >> halvard@earthlink.net writes: >> >> Mike Tyson had a way: you find someone who has >> an ear and then you bite it off. >> >> >> >> Van Gogh did in his one good one. So it goes. >> >> >> >> >> **************Get fantasy football with free live scoring. >> Sign up for >> FanHouse Fantasy Football today. >> (http://www.fanhouse.com/fantasyaffair?ncid=aolspr00050000000020) >> -------------- next part -------------- >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >> URL: >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080727/698b6e41/attachment-0001.html >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 4 >> Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2008 02:55:18 +0100 >> From: "Robin Hamilton" >> >> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Re: a dead ear for scansion >> To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News >> & Views" >> >> Message-ID: <023701c8f054$fd4cd850$4101a8c0@CoreDuo> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" >> >> All varieties of English are isochronic between stresses -- >> this is probably the fundamental linguistic observation to >> be made, and over-rides the differences between the five >> possible metrical systems (stress, syllable-accent, >> qualitative, syllabic, dipodic, and "free verse"). >> >> [Yes, I know that counts six -- there's >> a deliberate elide around "free verse".] >> >> Syllable-accent metrics has a(n) (un)happy history from >> roughly 1500 (earlier, if you count Chaucer, or The Owl and >> the Nightingale) to 1900. >> >> [dave cherry-picked The Shakespearean >> Moment, but there's a before-and-after to this.] >> >> Metrical stress (ictus) is contrastive rather than >> absolute, which is why I'd go +much+ further than Sam >> Gwynn in rejecting anything other than a two-stress notation >> for describing metrical patterns (rather than the rhythm) of >> a poem. >> >> Rhythm (which is what finally matters) in syllable-accent >> metrics is produced by the tension between natural speech >> stress and the abstract metrical pattern. >> >> There will tend to be a greater agreement over the metre of >> a poem than its rhythm. >> >> Or perhaps better to say, different arguments will result >> when we discuss the (possible) metre(s) of a poem as against >> its rhythms. >> >> Just some thoughts ... >> >> Robin Hamilton >> >> >> -------------- next part -------------- >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >> URL: >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080728/dbd6401a/attachment-0001.html >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 5 >> Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2008 22:58:28 -0400 >> From: "Judy Prince" >> >> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Re: a dead ear for scansion >> To: "Robin Hamilton" >> , "NewPoetry: >> Contemporary Poetry News &, Views" >> >> Message-ID: >> <7db1d01b0807271958s6d4cb66er32efc144da6082dc@mail.gmail.com> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" >> >> Ahem. Dr. Hamilton, I'd ask you to translate your >> English into English, but >> then where'd the fun be?! >> So you're saying that what we note down on paper in any >> of several ways to >> show a stressed (let's call it a "lunge" of >> "aggressive") word-bit or an >> unstressed ("limp" or "passive") bit >> would be called Metre. >> >> And what we speak or hear would be called Rhythm. >> >> What Sam and you are saying is that The Other Stuff (such >> as sustained sound >> and pitch) that isn't noted in anybody's metrical >> system (including the Judy >> Scansion system), is an important element in sussing the >> wholeness - the >> musicality - of poetry. >> >> Who could not agree with that?! >> >> Good thing you revised your nearly-last thought. It leads >> me to a related >> idea that's simmered for a few days with the weather. >> >> Those unrecorded bits [though music notation _does_ record >> much of what >> we're not noting in our metrical systems for language] >> such as sustained >> sound and pitch, add essential dimension to what we hear. >> Let me explain by >> relating it to Chinese. One of only four "tones" >> is used for each >> "syllable" in Chinese. If you say "ma" >> in the "wrong" tone, it will mean >> something entirely different than if you said >> "ma" in the "right" tone---the >> difference between a horse and a word that says >> "?" (i.e., marks the >> preceding words as a question). That's the easy part >> of Chinese. Linking >> several syllables, properly toned, together is the trickier >> part for a >> non-Asian-language speaker. Here's the part that >> further relates to >> musicality, the whole enchilada of poetry's >> "sound": Those four tones have >> a slightly-more-complex-than-just-stressed aspect. They >> sound, at times, >> like Chinese instruments from gongs to pipas and gujengs. >> The first tone is >> high and flat; second is lower and rising; third is still >> lower and rising; >> the fourth descends sharply from on high like (forgive me, >> mom) saying >> "Sh-t!" ("Sh-te" in Scottish). Several >> simple systems are used to represent >> the four tones. Westerners' systems for representing >> English metre are >> one-dimensional, as we've noted. Easterners' >> systems don't need to be >> complex because there're fewer >> "constellations" of separate tones (just >> four, in Chinese). I believe the Vietnamese language has >> many more tones >> than the Chinese, and I'd be interested to hear from >> someone who could >> compare it with Chinese and English. >> >> Judy >> >> >> 2008/7/27 Robin Hamilton >> >> >> >>> All varieties of English are isochronic between >>> >> stresses -- this is >> >>> probably the fundamental linguistic observation to be >>> >> made, and over-rides >> >>> the differences between the five possible metrical >>> >> systems (stress, >> >>> syllable-accent, qualitative, syllabic, dipodic, and >>> >> "free verse"). >> >>> [Yes, I know that counts six -- >>> >> there's a deliberate elide >> >>> around "free verse".] >>> >>> Syllable-accent metrics has a(n) (un)happy history >>> >> from roughly 1500 >> >>> (earlier, if you count Chaucer, or The Owl and the >>> >> Nightingale) to 1900. >> >>> [dave cherry-picked The Shakespearean >>> >> Moment, but there's a >> >>> before-and-after to this.] >>> >>> Metrical stress (ictus) is contrastive rather than >>> >> absolute, which is why >> >>> I'd go +much+ further than Sam Gwynn in rejecting >>> >> anything other than a >> >>> two-stress notation for describing metrical patterns >>> >> (rather than the >> >>> rhythm) of a poem. >>> >>> Rhythm (which is what finally matters) in >>> >> syllable-accent metrics is >> >>> produced by the tension between natural speech stress >>> >> and the abstract >> >>> metrical pattern. >>> >>> There will tend to be a greater agreement over the >>> >> metre of a poem than its >> >>> rhythm. >>> >>> Or perhaps better to say, different arguments will >>> >> result when we discuss >> >>> the (possible) metre(s) of a poem as against its >>> >> rhythms. >> >>> Just some thoughts ... >>> >>> Robin Hamilton >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> New-Poetry mailing list >>> New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu >>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>> >>> >>> >> -------------- next part -------------- >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >> URL: >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080727/1986c738/attachment-0001.html >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 6 >> Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2008 11:37:25 +0100 >> From: David Bircumshaw >> >> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Re: a dead ear for scansion >> To: Robin Hamilton >> , "NewPoetry: >> Contemporary Poetry News & Views" >> >> Message-ID: <488DA165.9060101@ntlworld.com> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed >> >> >>> [dave cherry-picked The Shakespearean Moment, but >>> >> there's a >> >>> before-and-after to this.] >>> >> Bugger, Hamilton, you caught me out there! >> >> Anyhow, I'm in mourning, as the Grand Pier at >> Weston-super-Mare has gone >> up in flames. Much of my childhood has been incinerated >> with that. Boo-hoo. >> >> Best >> >> Dave >> >> -- >> >> David Bircumshaw >> Website and A Chide's Alphabet >> http://homepage.ntlworld.com/david.bircumshaw/ >> The Animal Subsides >> http://www.arrowheadpress.co.uk/books/animal.html >> Leicester Poetry Society: http://www.poetryleicester.co.uk >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> >> End of New-Poetry Digest, Vol 49, Issue 36 >> ****************************************** >> > > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080730/d0cc0b8b/attachment.html From editor at pavementsaw.org Wed Jul 30 22:26:05 2008 From: editor at pavementsaw.org (David Baratier) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:43 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: message from tight In-Reply-To: <200807301600.m6UG03kG013773@wiz.cath.vt.edu> Message-ID: <53021.69529.qm@web45610.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Dear Cooper-- Could you share the requirements to be a tight intern? > Subject: Tight 3 (and Tight 4) > > Hello Friends of Tight, > > We all hate being inundated with these Facebook messages so > we here at Tight try to keep them to a minimum. > > We wanted to remind you all that Tight 3 is now available > to order from the Northshire Bookstore (www.northshire.com). > Just copy and paste our ISBN (9781605710020) into the search > field or call toll free 1-800-437-3700. You can talk to an > actual person! Be sure to ask about the media mail shipping > rate which will save you some money. > > There are, as of this message, 455 members in this group. > Our goal is to sell 400 copies of Tight 3 through the > Northshire to show the power of independent presses and > bookstores. If every person in this group bought just one > copy of Tight-for yourself, a friend, a relative-we'd > more than accomplish our goal. > > (We do have a few copies of Tight 3 available if you'd > like to write a review so please email us at > tightjournal@gmail.com if you're interested.) > > Also, to whet your appetite, Tight 4 will be released this > fall featuring work from Jeffery Beam, Edmund Berrigan, > Jackie Clark, Peter Davis, Corinne Fitzpatrick, Matt > Henriksen, Jennifer L. Knox, Mark Lamoureux, Dora Malech, > Thomas Meyer, Mary Millsap, Paul Muldoon, Matt Reeck, Aaron > Tieger, Eric Unger, Karen Weiser, Mac Wellman, Dustin > Williamson, Terence Winch, and Sara Wintz. > > Stay free, > Cooper MacBride, Tight Intern Be well David Baratier, Editor Pavement Saw Press 321 Empire Street Montpelier OH 43543 http://pavementsaw.org Subscribe to our e-mail listserv at http://pavementsaw.org/list/?p=subscribe&id=1 From anny.ballardini at tin.it Thu Jul 31 03:43:14 2008 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:43 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: message from tight In-Reply-To: <53021.69529.qm@web45610.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: <53021.69529.qm@web45610.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <9411DDA3313B41ED809AE66B00579D5B@AnnyPC> Hi David, I don't think that Cooper is on the list, you will have to use one of the links below, Anny ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Baratier" To: Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2008 4:26 AM Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: message from tight > Dear Cooper-- > > Could you share the requirements to be a tight intern? > > >> Subject: Tight 3 (and Tight 4) >> >> Hello Friends of Tight, >> >> We all hate being inundated with these Facebook messages so >> we here at Tight try to keep them to a minimum. >> >> We wanted to remind you all that Tight 3 is now available >> to order from the Northshire Bookstore (www.northshire.com). >> Just copy and paste our ISBN (9781605710020) into the search >> field or call toll free 1-800-437-3700. You can talk to an >> actual person! Be sure to ask about the media mail shipping >> rate which will save you some money. >> >> There are, as of this message, 455 members in this group. >> Our goal is to sell 400 copies of Tight 3 through the >> Northshire to show the power of independent presses and >> bookstores. If every person in this group bought just one >> copy of Tight-for yourself, a friend, a relative-we'd >> more than accomplish our goal. >> >> (We do have a few copies of Tight 3 available if you'd >> like to write a review so please email us at >> tightjournal@gmail.com if you're interested.) >> >> Also, to whet your appetite, Tight 4 will be released this >> fall featuring work from Jeffery Beam, Edmund Berrigan, >> Jackie Clark, Peter Davis, Corinne Fitzpatrick, Matt >> Henriksen, Jennifer L. Knox, Mark Lamoureux, Dora Malech, >> Thomas Meyer, Mary Millsap, Paul Muldoon, Matt Reeck, Aaron >> Tieger, Eric Unger, Karen Weiser, Mac Wellman, Dustin >> Williamson, Terence Winch, and Sara Wintz. >> >> Stay free, >> Cooper MacBride, Tight Intern > > > Be well > > David Baratier, Editor > > Pavement Saw Press > 321 Empire Street > Montpelier OH 43543 > http://pavementsaw.org > > Subscribe to our e-mail listserv at > http://pavementsaw.org/list/?p=subscribe&id=1 > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG. > Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 270.5.7/1580 - Release Date: 7/29/2008 > 5:26 PM > From cervantes.james at gmail.com Thu Jul 31 08:35:45 2008 From: cervantes.james at gmail.com (James Cervantes) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:43 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Ashbery at Rain Taxi Message-ID: <648208b60807310535i53d0f3d8g57884727b52d6f62@mail.gmail.com> "Rain Taxi is extremely pleased to announce the publication of "A Dream of this Room: A Portfolio of Works on John Ashbery's Textual and Domestic Environments," now available at www.raintaxi.com. Edited by Micaela Morrissette, this "Created Spaces" collection features a variety of writers and artists exploring Ashbery's unique poetics of domestic space-the result is a critical gathering not to be missed. Spread the word! And stay tuned for Part Two of our Summer Online Edition, posting in August... ALSO: for those who live in the Twin Cities area or might be visiting this summer, please join us for our 50th Issue Celebration on August 20th! Click here for details! ................................................................ Rain Taxi abhors spam and sends email only to those who have asked to receive it. You are subscribed with the address weishaus@pdx.edu. If you would like to add another email to our list and/or unsubscribe, visit http://www.raintaxi.com/contact.shtml. Please do not reply to this email, as this email address is send-only." I trust it was o.k. to copy and send this! It IS an interesting and extensive coverage of Ashbery from a slightly different angle. -- Jim ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning http://www.fieralingue.it/documenti/mr_bondo.pdf http://www.poetserv.org/jvc/home/index.html http://home.earthlink.net/~jvcervantes/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/12364573@N08/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080731/3bb60d03/attachment.html From amyhappens at yahoo.com Wed Jul 30 17:29:02 2008 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king) Date: Mon Aug 3 15:15:46 2009 Subject: [New-Poetry] Ekphrasis publishers In-Reply-To: <639002.19666.qm@web50409.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <544540.18164.qm@web83313.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Not quite, but something like it, esp for those technophiles, Born Magazine: http://www.bornmagazine.org/ Qarrtsiluni publishes Ekphrasis: http://qarrtsiluni.com/category/ekphrasis/ Mississippi Review is seeking Ekphrasis for October 2008: http://www.mississippireview.com/upcoming.html Best, Amy _______ Recent http://www.tarpaulinsky.com/Reviews/kiss-me.html http://jacketmagazine.com/34/dickow-king.shtml Alias http://www.amyking.org Your Suggestions http://amyking.wordpress.com/2008/06/12/poetry-exercises-wanted/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... 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