From Opus40-01 Tue Jan 1 07:33:41 2008 From: Opus40-01 (TheOldMole) Date: Tue, 01 Jan 2008 07:33:41 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] When Quinn the Eskimo gets here... Message-ID: <477A3325.1060700@opus40.org> Are these the questions you would have asked Alice Quinn? (from PW) *Who do you perceive to be the audience for the /New Yorker/'s poems? *I feel that /New Yorker/ readers are people who were profoundly connected to poetry in childhood, adolescence, or college, who want to touch base with it and want to feel that they still can read poetry. The /New Yorker/ gives poets access to an international audience of literarily eager people who are sampling poetry. *What changes have you noticed in poetry? *Poetry's a little swervier now. There are a lot of leaps being made, and an enjoyment of humor, playfulness, mystery?a certain ebullient spontaneity. I feel that in the work of the younger poets, and I love it. Of course, I'm still a great believer in Robert Frost's dictum that a good poem should be like a piece of ice on a hot stove; it should ride on its own melting. I feel there's more openness to the work that Jean Valentine and Rae Armantrout and Fanny Howe are doing, and some of that derives from the enjoyment that the poets in their twenties and thirties take in that work. They don't enshrine it in a totally academic and fierce and somewhat defensive, even belligerent, way. They don't feel they have to argue for it; they just enjoy it. *Where will poetry take you next? *First I would like to produce a very good book of Bishop's journals. I will have time in which to go to the Houghton Library in Boston and to the archives at Vassar, and St. Louis, where they have the May Swenson?Elizabeth Bishop correspondence, and to really get in a little bit of that dreamy investigative time that you get when you're at a rare-book library. Will I pursue other book projects or will I want to become an editor-at-large at a poetry house I admire? I'm not sure. For the time being, I really see PSA as an important focus of my devotion. But I can't pretend that it is in any way easy to leave the /New Yorker/. There's nothing that's going to take the place of people in [my] apartment building and people in London saying, "I loved that poem in the /New Yorker/ last week." The /New Yorker/ is a magical place. -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ The moral is this: in American verse, The better you are, the pay is worse. --Corey Ford From anny.ballardini Tue Jan 1 07:41:59 2008 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2008 13:41:59 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] New Year on New Poetry! Message-ID: <001201c84c73$b39d2730$2eec3652@ANNY> I find this little video quite nice: http://myspacetv.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoid=24972442 and if you like them there are more, even if I am of the idea that a small dose is enough: Ohio reviews Jennifer Moxley's The Middle Room: http://myspacetv.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoid=24970326 Ohio reviews Rod Smith's new book, Deed: http://myspacetv.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoid=22381844 Ohio reviews Dorothea Lasky's AWE: http://myspacetv.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoid=16127861 Ohio reviews Starsdown by Jasper Bernes: http://myspacetv.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoid=24974694 Ohio reviews the new Shiny: http://myspacetv.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoid=24968160 Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd Tue Jan 1 09:59:57 2008 From: grahamd (David Graham) Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2008 08:59:57 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Frost's House vandalized Message-ID: <865A895A-9500-4DC8-8D62-2FCFD870A5C6@ripon.edu> http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5jBdbQpGYbl-8y_IxIj5EHX4hHHvQD8TSQM080 ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/About%20Me.html Poetry Library: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames Tue Jan 1 13:25:02 2008 From: jforjames (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Tue, 01 Jan 2008 13:25:02 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Lorca's casa Message-ID: <8CA1ABAC2248A23-B6C-2160@webmail-da19.sysops.aol.com> http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/01/arts/design/01lorca.html?ref=design Chasing a Shadowy Imp, Garc?a Lorca?s Muse By DALE FUCHS Published: January 1, 2008 GRANADA, Spain ? Federico Garc?a Lorca called it ?el duende? ? in Spanish, the elf ? a dark, irrational muse that leads artists to tragic depths. This dangerous goblin, who delights in the ?tiny weeds of death,? as the early-20th-century Spanish poet and dramatist said in a lecture in Havana, haunted the streets of Garc?a Lorca?s ?Poet in New York? and the moonlit night of ?Blood Wedding.? It refused to take pity on the barren wombs, the weeping guitars or the silver-eyed Gypsy women of other Garc?a Lorca works.? ? And the little imp is making trouble still. More than 70 years after Garc?a Lorca?s death by a fascist firing squad at the start of the Spanish Civil War, the shadowy elf apparently inhabits Garc?a Lorca?s country home her ________________________________________________________________________ More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://webmail.aol.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini Tue Jan 1 15:01:27 2008 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2008 21:01:27 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Lorca's casa References: <8CA1ABAC2248A23-B6C-2160@webmail-da19.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <003e01c84cb1$18d19590$0aaa3452@ANNY> Dale Fuchs, a good friend of mine! Thanks for the article. She is the correspondent from Madrid for The New York Times. ----- Original Message ----- From: jforjames at aol.com To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Tuesday, January 01, 2008 7:25 PM Subject: [New-Poetry] Lorca's casa http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/01/arts/design/01lorca.html?ref=design Chasing a Shadowy Imp, Garc?a Lorca?s Muse By DALE FUCHS Published: January 1, 2008 GRANADA, Spain ? Federico Garc?a Lorca called it ?el duende? ? in Spanish, the elf ? a dark, irrational muse that leads artists to tragic depths. This dangerous goblin, who delights in the ?tiny weeds of death,? as the early-20th-century Spanish poet and dramatist said in a lecture in Havana, haunted the streets of Garc?a Lorca?s ?Poet in New York? and the moonlit night of ?Blood Wedding.? It refused to take pity on the barren wombs, the weeping guitars or the silver-eyed Gypsy women of other Garc?a Lorca works. And the little imp is making trouble still. More than 70 years after Garc?a Lorca?s death by a fascist firing squad at the start of the Spanish Civil War, the shadowy elf apparently inhabits Garc?a Lorca?s country home her ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail! ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames Tue Jan 1 16:26:17 2008 From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2008 16:26:17 EST Subject: [New-Poetry] Well put: Bill Berkson Message-ID: Both painting and poetry occupy fictive spaces in the physical world. But, then again, it may be because poetry and painting are more incomparable to one another than to the other arts that their affinity is sealed. [14] -- You can do a lot with educated eyes. What I mean by ?educated? is simply how pictures, among other things, can teach you about how to see, and what?s visible when you look hard enough or most openly. At a certain point, past the shock of seeing, you want to do something about it. That?s what makes an artist begin being an artist in the first place. At one time or another you get hit like with a rock. I have a theory that the course of anyone?s artistic life is determined largely by the attempt to retrieve that original rock, or what the painters used to call The Dream. [14] -- There is an ?everything? principle?the universal ?everything? principle? that poetry and painting share. It has to do with including. Fairfield Porter says, ?There is an elementary principle of organization in any art that nothing gets in anything else?s way and everything is at its own limit of possibilities.? [15] -- Wonderfully, there is no logic why poetry and painting should meet at all. It is not poetry dressing up to be ?like? painting or painting being pro- or anti-literary. Those comparisons are really speechless. I sometimes feel called upon to write a whole other lecture entitled ?Why I Am Not A Painterly Poet.? The real connections lie elsewhere, with materials which criticism is ever hard put to recognize, because criticism most often doesn?t, as art will, talk about everything all at one. [23] ?Bill Berskon, ?Poetry and Painting,? Sudden Address, Cuneiform Press 2007 -- Kenneth [Koch] was, and continues to be, central to my education. His conception of poetry as a form of nearly materialized, physical excitement made me see not just poetry but the world in and outside poetry differently. Not only did he encourage me in my writing but without proselytizing he revealed how being a poet could be a sensible pursuit?sensible in every respect?for a grown person. [94-95] -- If poetry and art have any assignment it is to make up the universe each time from scratch, hoping to uncover some plausibly declarative thread with enough connective tissue and shine to put it across. -- ?We poets know nothing,? sang ancient Hesiod, ?only what the muses tell us.? Modernity?s default muses have been private sensibility, abstract forms, and general culture made manifest as what we now call ?media.? [102] ?Bill Berskon, ??The Uneven Phenomenon??What Did You Expect?,? Sudden Address, Cuneiform Press 2007 **************************************See AOL's top rated recipes (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Opus40-01 Tue Jan 1 16:42:04 2008 From: Opus40-01 (TheOldMole) Date: Tue, 01 Jan 2008 16:42:04 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] And a little trivia for the new year... Message-ID: <477AB3AC.7070607@opus40.org> Who is referenced by both Auden and Groucho Marx? -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ The moral is this: in American verse, The better you are, the pay is worse. --Corey Ford From anny.ballardini Tue Jan 1 16:43:59 2008 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2008 22:43:59 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] pebbles & pebbles Message-ID: <004c01c84cbf$6b2599f0$132bb750@ANNY> Pebble by Zbigniew Herbert The pebble is a perfect creature equal to itself mindful of its limits filled exactly with a pebbly meaning with a scent that does not remind one of anything does not frighten anything away does not arouse desire its ardour and coldness are just and full of dignity I feel a heavy remorse when I hold it in my hand and its noble body is permeated by false warmth - Pebbles cannot be tamed to the end they will look at us with a calm and very clear eye Translated by Peter Dale Scott and Czeslaw Milosz from here: http://www.uvm.edu/~sgutman/Herbert.html Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini Tue Jan 1 17:39:32 2008 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2008 23:39:32 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] blogs Message-ID: <007b01c84cc7$2e07dfd0$132bb750@ANNY> On Slim Window by Tom Beckett: I believe that poetry is the most adrenalized, most sexualized, and the most language-centered of all the literary art. It defines itself through an emphasis on its materiality and its contingency, through its willingness--at its best--to be surpassed. http://slimwindows.blogspot.com/2008/01/allen-bramhall-ended-2007-with-question.html Linh Dinh has a blog: Detainees http://wwwwsonneteighteencom.blogspot.com/ Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jfq Tue Jan 1 23:28:56 2008 From: jfq (Jason Quackenbush) Date: Tue, 01 Jan 2008 20:28:56 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] Questions on form In-Reply-To: <477961C3.9010800@opus40.org> References: <477961C3.9010800@opus40.org> Message-ID: <477B1308.4000407@myuw.net> I count "William," "different" as a three syllable words and "beautiful" and "Everyone" as four syllable words. so there are four lines in this that have eight syllables. which is what i mean by "shoehorning" which is what you have to do if you want to say that every line here is in regular 7 syllable units. and you have to do that if you want to use traditional bivalent scansion toaccount for what feels like the regularity in this. TheOldMole wrote: > I don't think so. It's very regular, whether you read it as all > trochees or a balance between iambs and trochees, you still have seven > syllables in every line, three metric feet of two sy;llables and one > of one. > > jfq at myuw.net wrote: >> I think it's precisely these sorts of discussions that reveal the >> limitations of traditional bivalent scansion. Clearly there's a >> rhythmic scheme in this: >> >> >>> _Earth_, /re_ceive_ /an _hon_/oured _guest_: >>> _Will_iam/ _Yeats_/ is _laid _/to _rest_. >>> _Let _the /_Ir_ish /_ves_sel /_lie_ >>> _Empt_ied /_of _its /_po_et/_ry_. >>> >>> _Time _/that _is _/in_tol_/er_ant_ >>> _Of _the /_brave _and /_in_no/_cent_, >>> _And _in/_diff_erent/ _in _/a _week_ >>> _To _a/ _beaut_i/_ful _phy/_sique_, >>> >>> _Wor_ships/_ lang_uage/ _and _/for_gives_ >>> _Ev_/ery_one _/by _whom _/it _lives_; >>> _Pard_ons /_cow_/ar_dice_, /con_ceit_, >>> _Lays_/ its _hon_/ours _at _/their _feet_. >> >> but you try to shoehorn it into Greek feet, and the next thing you >> know you have to invent all sorts of weird schemata to "explain" >> something that's really very intuitive if you don't think to hard >> about it: there are two strong stresses coupled with two attendant >> weak stresses on each line (in the first line quoted above, the >> strong stresses are on "Earth" and "hon" and weak stresses on "ceive" >> and "guest") and the length of the line changes as needed due to the >> variable length of the syllables and the presence of caesura which >> would otherwise upset the pace of the pulse underlying the placement >> of the stresses. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> > From chris.lott Tue Jan 1 23:45:41 2008 From: chris.lott (Chris Lott) Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2008 19:45:41 -0900 Subject: [New-Poetry] Questions on form In-Reply-To: <477B1308.4000407@myuw.net> References: <477961C3.9010800@opus40.org> <477B1308.4000407@myuw.net> Message-ID: <9b1b9dab0801012045i2ec92dd9icd3cd51f84fa5fa1@mail.gmail.com> On Jan 1, 2008 7:28 PM, Jason Quackenbush wrote: > I count "William," "different" as a three syllable words and "beautiful" > and "Everyone" as four syllable words. so there are four lines in this > that have eight syllables. which is what i mean by "shoehorning" which > is what you have to do if you want to say that every line here is in > regular 7 syllable units. and you have to do that if you want to use > traditional bivalent scansion toaccount for what feels like the > regularity in this. That's 4 for 4 in syllable counts being different from mine.. William and different are 2 syllable words in my mouth, beautiful and everyone are 3... I'll have to start listening more closely, but I can't think of anyone I know who adds the extra syllable in there when speaking. Or I just don't hear them :) c -- Chris Lott From jfq Tue Jan 1 23:56:28 2008 From: jfq (Jason Quackenbush) Date: Tue, 01 Jan 2008 20:56:28 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] Questions on form In-Reply-To: <47798A24.5090303@nut-n-but.net> References: <4779405D.5040809@nut-n-but.net><2250D527CF9C433B8902A119E2DE8DD3@HamiltonPC> <4779631D.5090805@opus40.org> <47798A24.5090303@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <477B197C.1050500@myuw.net> Bob Grumman wrote: > if not, then what IS trochaic or iambic--since you can find more than > two strengths of stresses in any string of words. precisely my point. they don't really exist, and you have to do weird things to words in order to make them seem to exist. Granted we've beaten ourselves over the head with the iamb so much at this point that it has a sort of quasi-existence, but trochees spondees dactyls anapests choriambs, the whole lot are a bunch of malarkey. Modern science has replaced the goofy beliefs of the scholastics in every other aspect of our lives, why we cling to the feeble prosody of the sour faced grammarians who saddled us with traditional scansion because they thought English should be more like the classical languages is beyond me. > Seems to me the whole point of meter is regularization--and slightly > de-prosing a text by boosting certain accented syllables and > lightening certain unaccented ones. (Here, and most of the time.) I think that precisely the opposite is the point, that we regularize the line to get meter. All language has rhythm, but a meter must have a regular rhythm to have the effect of creating a pulse that is felt in the sound of the words. To do that meter must take into account the actual accents of actual language or it doesn't regularize anything and the rhythm it's pretending to have doesn't actually exist unless you do the weird exaggeration that you're talking about. Which is of course, what the problem with most formal verse is. Not that it's bad to write in meter, there are plenty of good ways to write in meter that would be really interesting. The best English language poets with form all work on a more subtle level than traditional bivalent stress, it's just unfortunate that most critics haven't noticed that because they're so used to misreading the stresses and syllable weights in order to figure out how the poems scan in bivalent scansion. It's all received wisdom that we'd be better off doing away with and starting over. Unfortunately, nobody else seems to both agree with me and care enough about the issue to put into practice a thorough four valued scansion set of forms, so all we get are ever more complicated versions of analysis. I personally quite like the possibilities presented by Derek Attridge's book "Poetic Rhythm" as it's the only thing I've found that can fully take account of Jackson Mac Low's more rhythmically mannerist work, but even the 3 value system that Corn used in the Poem's Heartbeat is greatly preferable to classical prosody. From jfq Wed Jan 2 00:13:25 2008 From: jfq (Jason Quackenbush) Date: Tue, 01 Jan 2008 21:13:25 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] Questions on form In-Reply-To: <9b1b9dab0801012045i2ec92dd9icd3cd51f84fa5fa1@mail.gmail.com> References: <477961C3.9010800@opus40.org> <477B1308.4000407@myuw.net> <9b1b9dab0801012045i2ec92dd9icd3cd51f84fa5fa1@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <477B1D75.2010509@myuw.net> Chris Lott wrote: > On Jan 1, 2008 7:28 PM, Jason Quackenbush wrote: > >> I count "William," "different" as a three syllable words and "beautiful" >> and "Everyone" as four syllable words. so there are four lines in this >> that have eight syllables. which is what i mean by "shoehorning" which >> is what you have to do if you want to say that every line here is in >> regular 7 syllable units. and you have to do that if you want to use >> traditional bivalent scansion toaccount for what feels like the >> regularity in this. >> > > That's 4 for 4 in syllable counts being different from mine.. William > and different are 2 syllable words in my mouth, beautiful and everyone > are 3... I'll have to start listening more closely, but I can't think > of anyone I know who adds the extra syllable in there when speaking. > Or I just don't hear them :) > > c > I'm not surprised there's disagreement. Most people treat dipthongs as single syllables when they're scanning poetry, but most people when speaking give dipthongs more time than a long vowel, so i think it makes sense to count them as two syllables, particularly since there are two sounds there. which is why william is three and beautiful is four. Also, most people miss that there's an unstressed syllable in the middle of "different" because it's extremely unstressed. However, I think there's a noticable difference between the word "different" and "diffrent" where the latter has an "fr" consonant cluster due to the missing unstressed schwa in the middle of "different," and likewise the whole stress pattern of the word shifts a touch. the same thing goes for "Everyone", contrast with "Evryone" and you'll see where the fourth syllable is. Then again, we may have significantly different dialects which might be the cause of the difference here too. What part of the world did you grow up in? From chris.lott Wed Jan 2 00:48:35 2008 From: chris.lott (Chris Lott) Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2008 20:48:35 -0900 Subject: [New-Poetry] Questions on form In-Reply-To: <477B1D75.2010509@myuw.net> References: <477961C3.9010800@opus40.org> <477B1308.4000407@myuw.net> <9b1b9dab0801012045i2ec92dd9icd3cd51f84fa5fa1@mail.gmail.com> <477B1D75.2010509@myuw.net> Message-ID: <9b1b9dab0801012148w1e155956le3b1376696f87d53@mail.gmail.com> I understand where the 4th syllables are supposed to be, I just don't ever hear anyone actually verbalizing them. In my head they sound different, particularly when spelled to reflect the missing syllable (different vs diffrent) but in reality I and everyone else I can think of (I'lll have to pay more attention) actually *say* it as "diffrent" ... I grew up in the Pacific Northwest and Alaska... c From s.allen.moore Wed Jan 2 03:22:13 2008 From: s.allen.moore (Steve Moore) Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2008 09:22:13 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Questions on form Message-ID: I also grew up o the west coast, California, Oregon, and Alaska (I currently live in Fairbanks). We tend to compress our words, cutting out extra vowels and compressing two short syllables into a single long syllable. Most of us also pronounce our T's as D's when it is at the middle or end of a word. Of course, that brings up the question, do you base your syllables on how you read it, or how you think your readers will read it. From bobgrumman Wed Jan 2 07:02:10 2008 From: bobgrumman (Bob Grumman) Date: Wed, 02 Jan 2008 07:02:10 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Questions on form In-Reply-To: <9b1b9dab0801012045i2ec92dd9icd3cd51f84fa5fa1@mail.gmail.com> References: <477961C3.9010800@opus40.org> <477B1308.4000407@myuw.net> <9b1b9dab0801012045i2ec92dd9icd3cd51f84fa5fa1@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <477B7D42.10606@nut-n-but.net> Chris Lott wrote: > On Jan 1, 2008 7:28 PM, Jason Quackenbush wrote: > >> I count "William," "different" as a three syllable words and "beautiful" >> and "Everyone" as four syllable words. so there are four lines in this >> that have eight syllables. which is what i mean by "shoehorning" which >> is what you have to do if you want to say that every line here is in >> regular 7 syllable units. and you have to do that if you want to use >> traditional bivalent scansion toaccount for what feels like the >> regularity in this. >> > > That's 4 for 4 in syllable counts being different from mine.. William > and different are 2 syllable words in my mouth, beautiful and everyone > are 3... I'll have to start listening more closely, but I can't think > of anyone I know who adds the extra syllable in there when speaking. > Or I just don't hear them :) > > > My pronunciation is the same as yours, Chris. Aside from that, it seems to me the whole idea of meter IS the "shoehorn" syllables--make the engagent hear the meter, not the "real" pronunciations. It regularizes a part of the poem which lets the images or ideas or diction of the poem go irregular, and it also heightens the language by making it slightly strange. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman Wed Jan 2 07:22:23 2008 From: bobgrumman (Bob Grumman) Date: Wed, 02 Jan 2008 07:22:23 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Questions on form In-Reply-To: <477B1D75.2010509@myuw.net> References: <477961C3.9010800@opus40.org><477B1308.4000407@myuw.net><9b1b9dab0801012045i2ec92dd9icd3cd51f84fa5fa1@mail.gmail.com> <477B1D75.2010509@myuw.net> Message-ID: <477B81FF.5000203@nut-n-but.net> Jason Quackenbush wrote: > Chris Lott wrote: >> On Jan 1, 2008 7:28 PM, Jason Quackenbush wrote: >> >>> I count "William," "different" as a three syllable words and >>> "beautiful" >>> and "Everyone" as four syllable words. so there are four lines in this >>> that have eight syllables. which is what i mean by "shoehorning" which >>> is what you have to do if you want to say that every line here is in >>> regular 7 syllable units. and you have to do that if you want to use >>> traditional bivalent scansion toaccount for what feels like the >>> regularity in this. >>> >> >> That's 4 for 4 in syllable counts being different from mine.. William >> and different are 2 syllable words in my mouth, beautiful and everyone >> are 3... I'll have to start listening more closely, but I can't think >> of anyone I know who adds the extra syllable in there when speaking. >> Or I just don't hear them :) >> >> c >> > I'm not surprised there's disagreement. Most people treat dipthongs as > single syllables when they're scanning poetry, but most people when > speaking give dipthongs more time than a long vowel, so i think it > makes sense to count them as two syllables, particularly since there > are two sounds there. which is why william is three and beautiful is > four. Also, most people miss that there's an unstressed syllable in > the middle of "different" because it's extremely unstressed. However, > I think there's a noticable difference between the word "different" > and "diffrent" where the latter has an "fr" consonant cluster due to > the missing unstressed schwa in the middle of "different," and > likewise the whole stress pattern of the word shifts a touch. the same > thing goes for "Everyone", contrast with "Evryone" and you'll see > where the fourth syllable is. > > Then again, we may have significantly different dialects which might > be the cause of the difference here too. What part of the world did > you grow up in? Isn't it standard for inconsequential syllables to drop out of words as languages evolve? If so, at some point, a two syllable pronunciation of a word like "different"--or "dialect," which I still usually pronounce as three syllables but sometimes as just two--will become "correct." --Bob From Rsgwynn1 Wed Jan 2 10:06:10 2008 From: Rsgwynn1 (Rsgwynn1 at cs.com) Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2008 10:06:10 EST Subject: [New-Poetry] Questions on form Message-ID: In a message dated 1/1/2008 10:29:21 PM Central Standard Time, jfq at myuw.net writes: > > I count "William," "different" as a three syllable words and "beautiful" > and "Everyone" as four syllable words. so there are four lines in this > that have eight syllables. which is what i mean by "shoehorning" which > is what you have to do if you want to say that every line here is in > regular 7 syllable units. and you have to do that if you want to use > traditional bivalent scansion toaccount for what feels like the > regularity in this. > I suggest you check your fingers. Then consult an audiologist. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Opus40-01 Wed Jan 2 10:43:32 2008 From: Opus40-01 (TheOldMole) Date: Wed, 02 Jan 2008 10:43:32 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Questions on form In-Reply-To: <9b1b9dab0801012148w1e155956le3b1376696f87d53@mail.gmail.com> References: <477961C3.9010800@opus40.org> <477B1308.4000407@myuw.net> <9b1b9dab0801012045i2ec92dd9icd3cd51f84fa5fa1@mail.gmail.com> <477B1D75.2010509@myuw.net> <9b1b9dab0801012148w1e155956le3b1376696f87d53@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <477BB124.90406@opus40.org> Maybe in the American south. I had a friend from Tennessee, an excellent poet, but she could never get meter, She said it was because where she came from, they added extra syllables to everything -- "bee-yootiful," etc. But this diesn't explain why so many southern poets from Lanier to Timrod to the Fugitives wrote in regular meter, without the extra-syllable Southernisms. Chris Lott wrote: > I understand where the 4th syllables are supposed to be, I just don't > ever hear anyone actually verbalizing them. In my head they sound > different, particularly when spelled to reflect the missing syllable > (different vs diffrent) but in reality I and everyone else I can think > of (I'lll have to pay more attention) actually *say* it as "diffrent" > ... > > I grew up in the Pacific Northwest and Alaska... > > c > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ The moral is this: in American verse, The better you are, the pay is worse. --Corey Ford From Opus40-01 Wed Jan 2 11:40:49 2008 From: Opus40-01 (TheOldMole) Date: Wed, 02 Jan 2008 11:40:49 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Questions on form In-Reply-To: <477B81FF.5000203@nut-n-but.net> References: <477961C3.9010800@opus40.org><477B1308.4000407@myuw.net><9b1b9dab0801012045i2ec92dd9icd3cd51f84fa5fa1@mail.gmail.com> <477B1D75.2010509@myuw.net> <477B81FF.5000203@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <477BBE91.3050806@opus40.org> Bob Grumman wrote: > Isn't it standard for inconsequential syllables to drop out of words > as languages evolve? If so, at some point, a two syllable > pronunciation of a word like "different"--or "dialect," which I still > usually pronounce as three syllables but sometimes as just two--will > become "correct." > > --Bob In the case of "different," two syllables have been the standard for a while. Here's Shelley, also making "aspire" a two-syllable word: Yet, oh, how different! One aspires to Heaven, Pants for its sempiternal heritage, I think we'd notice it more if a poet stretched the syllable count to three -- which Lord knows, people have done. I might even have done it myself at some time. But if you did, you'd have to know you were calling attention to that moment in the line. > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ The moral is this: in American verse, The better you are, the pay is worse. --Corey Ford From Opus40-01 Wed Jan 2 12:09:23 2008 From: Opus40-01 (TheOldMole) Date: Wed, 02 Jan 2008 12:09:23 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] What am I letting myself in for? Message-ID: <477BC543.9030306@opus40.org> Looking at the class rosters for my Freshman comp class this coming semester, I have a student named Dana Gioia. -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ The moral is this: in American verse, The better you are, the pay is worse. --Corey Ford From jforjames Wed Jan 2 13:03:32 2008 From: jforjames (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Wed, 02 Jan 2008 13:03:32 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] What am I letting myself in for? In-Reply-To: <477BC543.9030306@opus40.org> References: <477BC543.9030306@opus40.org> Message-ID: <8CA1B80EBCE7BDF-3C8-14E@FWM-D32.sysops.aol.com> Can Comp Matter? -----Original Message----- From: TheOldMole Bcc: jforjames at aol.com Sent: Wed, 2 Jan 2008 12:09 pm Subject: [New-Poetry] What am I letting myself in for? Looking at the class rosters for my Freshman comp class this coming semester, I have a student named Dana Gioia.? ? -- Tad Richards? http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/? http://opusforty.blogspot.com/? ? The moral is this: in American verse,? The better you are, the pay is worse.? ?--Corey Ford? ? _______________________________________________? New-Poetry mailing list? New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu? http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry? ________________________________________________________________________ More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://webmail.aol.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames Wed Jan 2 13:07:00 2008 From: jforjames (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Wed, 02 Jan 2008 13:07:00 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetry as Insurgent Art Message-ID: <8CA1B8167843B56-DA4-39@FWM-D32.sysops.aol.com> http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2007/12/30/RVLRU031F.DTL&type=books Ferlinghetti argues that poetry can save the world Steve Heilig Sunday, December 30, 2007 ? Poetry as Insurgent Art By Lawrence Ferlinghetti NEW DIRECTIONS; 90 PAGES; $12.95 What is the "use" of poetry? Or, as more than one author has asked, Can Poetry Matter? More than 50 years ago, renowned American poet William Carlos Williams wrote famously that "It is difficult/ to get the news from poems/ yet men die miserably every day/ for lack/ of what is found there." A practical man who was not only a poet but also a practicing physician, Williams' lines are usually read to imply that poetry - good poetry, at least - is essential to one's inner life and spirit. In the cultural doldrums of the early 1950s, that rang true for many people. Around the same time Williams wrote those lines, Lawrence Ferlinghetti arrived in San Francisco, ________________________________________________________________________ More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://webmail.aol.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames Wed Jan 2 13:07:56 2008 From: jforjames (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Wed, 02 Jan 2008 13:07:56 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] WorldPo: Bangladeshi Poet, Kaiser Haq Message-ID: <8CA1B818933FF53-DA4-4A@FWM-D32.sysops.aol.com> http://www.popmatters.com/pm/columns/article/52591/in-conversation-with-bangladeshi-poet-kaiser-haq/ The Bengal Gaze: In Conversation with Bangladeshi Poet, Kaiser Haq [2 January 2008] In recent context, the work of Bangladeshi writers like Kaiser Haq, a poet, translator, essayist, editor and professor of English at Dhaka University, seems ever more significant. Haq?s latest collection of poetry, Published in the Streets of Dhaka: Collected Poems 1966-2006, impresses with its insight and quirkiness, fluidity and eroticism, evoking Bangladesh as he knows, remembers and imagines it. Haq writes with the fondness and deprecation of the insider; if anything can be clearly discerned from the complexity of his verse (including the sometimes lofty obscurity of his allusions), it is his sense of belonging to Bangladesh, even as he appears to stand apart from it in an intriguing way?through language. ________________________________________________________________________ More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://webmail.aol.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd Wed Jan 2 13:25:22 2008 From: grahamd (David Graham) Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2008 12:25:22 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Spoken Word Redux Message-ID: <3FFFFC39-B2F7-408B-A3A6-5B71EB51F5DB@ripon.edu> New book recommendation-- I've been looking at the anthology *The Spoken Word Revolution Redux*, which is a sequel to *The Spoken Word Revolution* of a couple years back, both edited by Mark Eleveld. From Sourcebooks. To my mind, it's an even better collection than the first one. There are by now a number of anthologies and texts that cover performance/slam/spoken word poetry, some more dross-heavy than others. I think this is one of the better ones. Like the earlier book, this sequel makes an effort at bridge-building between the "academic" and the "street" scenes by including pieces by more mainstream academic figures (Ted Kooser, Billy Collins, Robert Creeley, e.g.) as well as brief essays about various issues. Particularly strong essays by James Fenton ("The Raised Voice of Poetry") and Henry Taylor ("Read by the Author: Some Notes on Poetry in Performance"). I like it that the editor doesn't adopt an adversarial stance toward tradition or indulge in the usual mindless professor-bashing. New features in the latest book include a section of international poems, a little mini-symposium/tribute to Creeley, and more attention to the music/poetry nexus. Like the first book, this one also comes with a CD, including poets reading as well as commentary on the scene. I wish it came with 5 CDs--too many of the pieces are merely excerpted, and my relish for Marc Smith's commentary is not infinite--but it's a good start, anyway. All anthologies these days should come with CDs, in my opinion, particularly of poems performed live rather than in the studio. ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/About%20Me.html Poetry Library: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Opus40-01 Wed Jan 2 14:27:11 2008 From: Opus40-01 (TheOldMole) Date: Wed, 02 Jan 2008 14:27:11 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] What am I letting myself in for? In-Reply-To: <8CA1B80EBCE7BDF-3C8-14E@FWM-D32.sysops.aol.com> References: <477BC543.9030306@opus40.org> <8CA1B80EBCE7BDF-3C8-14E@FWM-D32.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <477BE58F.4080203@opus40.org> Can this possibly be a relation? I guess I'll find out. jforjames at aol.com wrote: > Can Comp Matter? > > > -----Original Message----- > From: TheOldMole > Bcc: jforjames at aol.com > Sent: Wed, 2 Jan 2008 12:09 pm > Subject: [New-Poetry] What am I letting myself in for? > > Looking at the class rosters for my Freshman comp class this coming > semester, I have a student named Dana Gioia. > > -- Tad Richards > http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ > http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ > > The moral is this: in American verse, > The better you are, the pay is worse. > --Corey Ford > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail > ! > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ The moral is this: in American verse, The better you are, the pay is worse. --Corey Ford From skip Wed Jan 2 15:08:38 2008 From: skip (Skip Fox) Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2008 14:08:38 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fw: [NarcissusWorks] 12/29/2007 10:24:00 PM In-Reply-To: <004e01c84a63$86304ff0$f4ab3252@ANNY> Message-ID: <002101c84d7b$49054f20$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> My two computers have these Ballardini backgrounds currently. -----Original Message----- From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Anny Ballardini Sent: Saturday, December 29, 2007 3:41 PM To: New Poetry Subject: [New-Poetry] Fw: [NarcissusWorks] 12/29/2007 10:24:00 PM I posted several pics on my blog, any comment would be much appreciated. ----- Original Message ----- From: Anny Ballardini To: anny.ballardini at tin.it Sent: Saturday, December 29, 2007 10:27 PM Subject: [NarcissusWorks] 12/29/2007 10:24:00 PM -- Posted By Anny Ballardini to NarcissusWorks at 12/29/2007 10:24:00 PM -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jfq Wed Jan 2 15:16:27 2008 From: jfq (jfq at myuw.net) Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2008 12:16:27 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] Questions on form In-Reply-To: <477B81FF.5000203@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 2 Jan 2008, Bob Grumman wrote: > Isn't it standard for inconsequential syllables to drop out of words as > languages evolve? If so, at some point, a two syllable pronunciation of a word > like "different"--or "dialect," which I still usually pronounce as three > syllables but sometimes as just two--will become "correct." It's definitely one mechanism of language change, although syllables and extra prefixes and suffixes get added too. Particularly in Chinese for example, the creation of multiple syllable words has been a major vehicle of dialect change. From anny.ballardini Wed Jan 2 15:29:07 2008 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2008 21:29:07 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fw: [NarcissusWorks] 12/29/2007 10:24:00 PM References: <002101c84d7b$49054f20$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> Message-ID: <002501c84d7e$20496c80$6cd93052@ANNY> Thank you Skip, very honored, indeed. ----- Original Message ----- From: Skip Fox To: 'NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views' Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2008 9:08 PM Subject: RE: [New-Poetry] Fw: [NarcissusWorks] 12/29/2007 10:24:00 PM My two computers have these Ballardini backgrounds currently. -----Original Message----- From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Anny Ballardini Sent: Saturday, December 29, 2007 3:41 PM To: New Poetry Subject: [New-Poetry] Fw: [NarcissusWorks] 12/29/2007 10:24:00 PM I posted several pics on my blog, any comment would be much appreciated. ----- Original Message ----- From: Anny Ballardini To: anny.ballardini at tin.it Sent: Saturday, December 29, 2007 10:27 PM Subject: [NarcissusWorks] 12/29/2007 10:24:00 PM -- Posted By Anny Ballardini to NarcissusWorks at 12/29/2007 10:24:00 PM ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames Wed Jan 2 15:44:20 2008 From: jforjames (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Wed, 02 Jan 2008 15:44:20 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Spoken Word Redux In-Reply-To: <3FFFFC39-B2F7-408B-A3A6-5B71EB51F5DB@ripon.edu> References: <3FFFFC39-B2F7-408B-A3A6-5B71EB51F5DB@ripon.edu> Message-ID: <8CA1B9762A22002-DDC-CB0@webmail-md18.sysops.aol.com> Glancing through a recent AWP Chronicle recently I reminded again of proliferation of?the?MFA in Poetry programs out there, and then?your post got me wondering about how many of them have a concentration/track in performance poetry? I'm pretty sure that?'performance'?would be an optional?track?at Naropa and maybe some of the programs associated with Art/alternative schools, but I wonder if many of the older/traditional university-based MFA programs give performance poetry?more than cursory treatment? My?guess?is that performance poetry is?not widely accepted?as being on?equal footing with text-based practice. Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: David Graham To: NewPoetry & Views Sent: Wed, 2 Jan 2008 1:25 pm Subject: [New-Poetry] Spoken Word Redux New book recommendation-- I've been looking at the anthology *The Spoken Word Revolution Redux*, which is a sequel to *The Spoken Word Revolution* of a couple years back, both edited by Mark Eleveld. ?From Sourcebooks. ?To my mind, it's an even better collection than the first one. ? There are by now a number of anthologies and texts that cover performance/slam/spoken word poetry, some more dross-heavy than others. ?I think this is one of the better ones. ?Like the earlier book, this sequel makes an effort at bridge-building between the "academic" and the "street" scenes by including pieces by more mainstream academic figures (Ted Kooser, Billy Collins, Robert Creeley, e.g.) as well as brief essays about various issues. ?Particularly strong essays by James Fenton ("The Raised Voice of Poetry") and Henry Taylor ("Read by the Author: ?Some Notes on Poetry in Performance"). ?I like it that the editor doesn't adopt an adversarial stance toward tradition or indulge in the usual mindless professor-bashing. ?New features in the latest book include a section of international poems, a little mini-symposium/tribute to Creeley, and more attention to the music/poetry nexus. ? Like the first book, this one also comes with a CD, including poets reading as well as commentary on the scene. ?I wish it came with 5 CDs--too many of the pieces are merely excerpted, and my relish for Marc Smith's commentary is not infinite--but it's a good start, anyway. ?All anthologies these days should come with CDs, in my opinion, particularly of poems performed live rather than in the studio. ? ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/About%20Me.html Poetry Library: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== = _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry ________________________________________________________________________ More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://webmail.aol.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jfq Wed Jan 2 15:45:50 2008 From: jfq (jfq at myuw.net) Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2008 12:45:50 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] Questions on form In-Reply-To: <9b1b9dab0801012148w1e155956le3b1376696f87d53@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: So since we've started having this conversation I've been sort of compulsively repeating the word "different" to myself in different contexts and have come to the conclusion that I have three wholely different pronunciations of it. When I subvocalize, speak in a more formal register, or use it as a direct object of the copula, I say "different" with the very de-emphasized schwa. If I'm talking in my normal casual register I say "diffrent" with no third syllable. If I'm talking really fast I say "Diffrn'" with a glottal stop in place of the aspirated "t" following the n, which sounds almost sounds like the southern "differnt." But since this is the formal register of poetry and it's subvocalized, in this case I see it as "different". But in any case, this is all drifting from my point which is I don't think syllable counts matter all that much in English verse, and that's the reason that we can all perceive the rhythm in the lines in question even though we all evidently pronounce certain words differently enough to make our syllable counts different. Which I think works because the reason is because all the extra syllables are unstressed and so don't change the overall number of primary and secondary stresses in a line, which is all that is needed to establish a meter. On Tue, 1 Jan 2008, Chris Lott wrote: > I understand where the 4th syllables are supposed to be, I just don't > ever hear anyone actually verbalizing them. In my head they sound > different, particularly when spelled to reflect the missing syllable > (different vs diffrent) but in reality I and everyone else I can think > of (I'lll have to pay more attention) actually *say* it as "diffrent" > ... > > I grew up in the Pacific Northwest and Alaska... > > c > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > From jfq Wed Jan 2 15:50:19 2008 From: jfq (jfq at myuw.net) Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2008 12:50:19 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] What am I letting myself in for? In-Reply-To: <477BE58F.4080203@opus40.org> Message-ID: What I think is scary is the possibility is that it's not a relation, but rather someone who was named after our illustrious NEA chairman. that there are children old enough to be in college and young enough to have been named Dana Gioia as a tribute to his poetry. it makes me feel kind of old. At least it's not someone named XJ Kennedy though. On Wed, 2 Jan 2008, TheOldMole wrote: > Can this possibly be a relation? I guess I'll find out. > > jforjames at aol.com wrote: >> Can Comp Matter? >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: TheOldMole >> Bcc: jforjames at aol.com >> Sent: Wed, 2 Jan 2008 12:09 pm >> Subject: [New-Poetry] What am I letting myself in for? >> >> Looking at the class rosters for my Freshman comp class this coming >> semester, I have a student named Dana Gioia. -- Tad Richards >> http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ The moral >> is this: in American verse, The better you are, the pay is worse. --Corey >> Ford _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing >> list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail >> ! >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> > > -- > Tad Richards > http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ > http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ > > The moral is this: in American verse, > The better you are, the pay is worse. > --Corey Ford > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > From robin.hamilton2 Wed Jan 2 15:50:12 2008 From: robin.hamilton2 (Robin Hamilton) Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2008 15:50:12 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Questions on form In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2E6687044FAB4184B05E4C06185F3EEC@HamiltonPC> > On Wed, 2 Jan 2008, Bob Grumman wrote: > >> Isn't it standard for inconsequential syllables to drop out of words as >> languages evolve? If so, at some point, a two syllable pronunciation of >> a word like "different"--or "dialect," which I still usually pronounce as >> three syllables but sometimes as just two--will become "correct." > > It's definitely one mechanism of language change, although syllables and > extra prefixes and suffixes get added too. Particularly in Chinese for > example, the creation of multiple syllable words has been a major vehicle > of dialect change. Notably (and catastrophically) the loss of the final unaccented 'e' after Chaucer. In Scots, there's the marked loss of the final 'l' in certain words, leading to " wa' " (for "wall"), ca', fa', etc. R. From jfq Wed Jan 2 15:54:07 2008 From: jfq (jfq at myuw.net) Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2008 12:54:07 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] Spoken Word Redux In-Reply-To: <3FFFFC39-B2F7-408B-A3A6-5B71EB51F5DB@ripon.edu> Message-ID: I wonder if anybody else thinks the slam world's definition of everything that isn't slam or one of the retrospectively claimed fathers of the spoken word as "academic" is just the weirdest kind of ignorance? Any view of poetry that doesn't account for the difference between Ted Kooser and Charles Bernstein is one that seems to be making an important and unfortunate mistake and there's a sad reluctance in the Slam scene to try to correct that. Any one else hang around with a lot of slam poets and have this same impression? On Wed, 2 Jan 2008, David Graham wrote: > New book recommendation-- > > I've been looking at the anthology *The Spoken Word Revolution Redux*, which is > a sequel to *The Spoken Word Revolution* of a couple years back, both edited by > Mark Eleveld. From Sourcebooks. To my mind, it's an even better collection > than the first one. > > There are by now a number of anthologies and texts that cover > performance/slam/spoken word poetry, some more dross-heavy than others. I > think this is one of the better ones. Like the earlier book, this sequel makes > an effort at bridge-building between the "academic" and the "street" scenes by > including pieces by more mainstream academic figures (Ted Kooser, Billy > Collins, Robert Creeley, e.g.) as well as brief essays about various issues. > Particularly strong essays by James Fenton ("The Raised Voice of Poetry") and > Henry Taylor ("Read by the Author: Some Notes on Poetry in Performance"). I > like it that the editor doesn't adopt an adversarial stance toward tradition or > indulge in the usual mindless professor-bashing. New features in the latest > book include a section of international poems, a little mini-symposium/tribute > to Creeley, and more attention to the music/poetry nexus. > > Like the first book, this one also comes with a CD, including poets reading as > well as commentary on the scene. I wish it came with 5 CDs--too many of the > pieces are merely excerpted, and my relish for Marc Smith's commentary is not > infinite--but it's a good start, anyway. All anthologies these days should > come with CDs, in my opinion, particularly of poems performed live rather than > in the studio. > > > > ======================================== > David Graham > grahamd at ripon.edu > > Home Page: > http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/About%20Me.html > > Poetry Library: > http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html > ========================================== > > > > From robin.hamilton2 Wed Jan 2 15:56:44 2008 From: robin.hamilton2 (Robin Hamilton) Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2008 15:56:44 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Questions on form In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <9AD6B810FB294DBB97352CC09E5DFDBB@HamiltonPC> From: > But in any case, this is all drifting from my point which is I don't think > syllable counts matter all that much in English verse ... _Doctor Faustus_, Scene V, line 118 somehow springs to mind in this context. R. From jfq Wed Jan 2 16:12:36 2008 From: jfq (jfq at myuw.net) Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2008 13:12:36 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] Questions on form In-Reply-To: <9AD6B810FB294DBB97352CC09E5DFDBB@HamiltonPC> Message-ID: well, not wanting to overstate the case, obviously they matter. but i think only as a tertiary concern when compared to the relative pattern of weights and stresses and also the fact of various forms of silence and pauses that are generally unaccounted for, but hugely influential in the rhythm of verse. account for that, and if there are no irregularities there, then sure, you might turn to syllable count to smooth wrinkles. On Wed, 2 Jan 2008, Robin Hamilton wrote: > From: > >> But in any case, this is all drifting from my point which is I don't think >> syllable counts matter all that much in English verse ... > > _Doctor Faustus_, Scene V, line 118 somehow springs to mind in this context. > > > > R. > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > From cervantes.james Wed Jan 2 17:28:07 2008 From: cervantes.james (James Cervantes) Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2008 15:28:07 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] What am I letting myself in for? In-Reply-To: <8CA1B80EBCE7BDF-3C8-14E@FWM-D32.sysops.aol.com> References: <477BC543.9030306@opus40.org> <8CA1B80EBCE7BDF-3C8-14E@FWM-D32.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <648208b60801021428n606b3c79hd55f65dcf785288e@mail.gmail.com> Ha ha ha. Is the kid a business major? On 1/2/08, jforjames at aol.com wrote: > Can Comp Matter? > > > -----Original Message----- > From: TheOldMole > Bcc: jforjames at aol.com > Sent: Wed, 2 Jan 2008 12:09 pm > Subject: [New-Poetry] What am I letting myself in for? > > > Looking at the class rosters for my Freshman comp class this coming > semester, I have a student named Dana Gioia. > > -- Tad Richards > http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ > http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ > > The moral is this: in American verse, > The better you are, the pay is worse. > --Corey Ford > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > ________________________________ > More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail! > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~ Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org ~ http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning ~ http://www.fieralingue.it/documenti/mr_bondo.pdf ~ http://www.poetserv.org/jvc/home/index.html ~ http://home.earthlink.net/~jvcervantes/ ~ http://www.flickr.com/photos/12364573 at N08/ From grahamd Wed Jan 2 17:28:54 2008 From: grahamd (David Graham) Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2008 16:28:54 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] What am I letting myself in for? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <24AEF7E4-C75C-4511-BE1E-98EDCCB712E2@ripon.edu> On Jan 2, 2008, at 2:50 PM, jfq at myuw.net wrote: > > At least it's not someone named XJ Kennedy though. > ----------- Trivia question: What does the X in X. J. Kennedy stand for? And what's the J? No fair Googling. . . . ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/About%20Me.html Poetry Library: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Sigauke Wed Jan 2 17:33:26 2008 From: Sigauke (Sigauke, Emmanuel ) Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2008 14:33:26 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] What am I letting myself in for? References: <24AEF7E4-C75C-4511-BE1E-98EDCCB712E2@ripon.edu> Message-ID: <31F3BD8702DDAD4DAFEAB5245EAAED661D309B@CRC-EXCH01.crc.ad.losrios.edu> I have a Faulkner in my writing workshop, and I tend to use models by Faulkner. ________________________________ From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu on behalf of David Graham Sent: Wed 1/2/2008 2:28 PM To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views Subject: [New-Poetry] What am I letting myself in for? On Jan 2, 2008, at 2:50 PM, jfq at myuw.net wrote: At least it's not someone named XJ Kennedy though. ----------- Trivia question: What does the X in X. J. Kennedy stand for? And what's the J? No fair Googling. . . . ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/About%20Me.html Poetry Library: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/ms-tnef Size: 4842 bytes Desc: not available URL: From chris.lott Wed Jan 2 17:37:16 2008 From: chris.lott (Chris Lott) Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2008 13:37:16 -0900 Subject: [New-Poetry] What am I letting myself in for? In-Reply-To: <24AEF7E4-C75C-4511-BE1E-98EDCCB712E2@ripon.edu> References: <24AEF7E4-C75C-4511-BE1E-98EDCCB712E2@ripon.edu> Message-ID: <9b1b9dab0801021437v6146f48etc5d0f16d5bbaa0c9@mail.gmail.com> On Jan 2, 2008 1:28 PM, David Graham wrote: > ----------- > Trivia question: What does the X in X. J. Kennedy stand for? And what's > the J? No fair Googling. . . . Well it has to be something strange then...nothing? A political statement, like the X in Malcolm X but really, really white? c From mandolin Wed Jan 2 17:57:59 2008 From: mandolin (Michael Snider) Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2008 17:57:59 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Questions on form In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Jan 2, 2008, at 4:12 PM, jfq at myuw.net wrote: > well, not wanting to overstate the case, obviously they matter. but > i think only as a tertiary concern when compared to the relative > pattern of weights and stresses and also the fact of various forms > of silence and pauses that are generally unaccounted for, but hugely > influential in the rhythm of verse. account for that, and if there > are no irregularities there, then sure, you might turn to syllable > count to smooth wrinkles. All that goes on--silences, dipthongs, rhetorical stress, and much more--but the rhthm of a metrical poem is neither those things it inherits from natural speech nor its meter, but is instead a product of the interaction of meter and speech. It's not shoe-horning, though Bob G is correct that meter results in what you miight call "nudges" either up or down on the natural speech stress of a phrase. Those nudges come from a more-or-less strict pattern of stressed and unstressed syllables within the feet of the poem--and only contrasting stress within a foot, not between feet, counts for the meter. BTW, the terms of traditional English prosody are Greek in origin but they don't even pretend to refer to the same phenomena, though Sidney and a few others were a might confused early on. And hiya, folks. Been mostly off-net for a while, and the several thousand unread New Poetry emails were a little intimidating. I finally decided to just jump over the lot. From mandolin Wed Jan 2 18:00:04 2008 From: mandolin (Michael Snider) Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2008 18:00:04 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] What am I letting myself in for? In-Reply-To: <24AEF7E4-C75C-4511-BE1E-98EDCCB712E2@ripon.edu> References: <24AEF7E4-C75C-4511-BE1E-98EDCCB712E2@ripon.edu> Message-ID: On Jan 2, 2008, at 5:28 PM, David Graham wrote: > > > > On Jan 2, 2008, at 2:50 PM, jfq at myuw.net wrote: >> >> At least it's not someone named XJ Kennedy though. >> ----------- > > Trivia question: What does the X in X. J. Kennedy stand for? And > what's the J? No fair Googling. . . . Th J is "Joseph," and the "X" is the "X" he added himself because he didn't wan't to be Joe Kennedy. Hi, David! From grahamd Wed Jan 2 18:02:38 2008 From: grahamd (David Graham) Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2008 17:02:38 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Solving for X; was: What am I letting myself in for? In-Reply-To: References: <24AEF7E4-C75C-4511-BE1E-98EDCCB712E2@ripon.edu> Message-ID: <1D881CB3-BA80-440D-B196-89F3107EE431@ripon.edu> Give that man a cigar. Nice to see you on list again, Mike. ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/About%20Me.html Poetry Library: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== On Jan 2, 2008, at 5:00 PM, Michael Snider wrote: > > On Jan 2, 2008, at 5:28 PM, David Graham wrote: > >> >> >> >> On Jan 2, 2008, at 2:50 PM, jfq at myuw.net wrote: >>> >>> At least it's not someone named XJ Kennedy though. >>> ----------- >> >> Trivia question: What does the X in X. J. Kennedy stand for? And >> what's the J? No fair Googling. . . . > > Th J is "Joseph," and the "X" is the "X" he added himself because > he didn't wan't to be Joe Kennedy. > > Hi, David! > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jfq Wed Jan 2 18:21:08 2008 From: jfq (jfq at myuw.net) Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2008 15:21:08 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] Questions on form In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I agree that this is the traditional view of meter in classical prosody, and laid out more eloquently than i have done so, so thanks. But i don't think I'm wrong to call it shoehorning because it doesn't emerge from the rhythms of natural speech. That's pretty central to the point i'm trying to make: that the rhythm of poetry ought to emerge from the rhythm of natural speech. I recognize it as a prescriptive position, certainly, but I think a good case can be made for it on several good grounds. Not the least, but certainly not the only one either, is that a view of meter based on modern scientific prosody gives the poet a richer palette not just as regards rhythm but with all prosodic devices which rely on their timing in relation to eachother to have their effect. Allowing for greater subtlety in composition is a good thing, because it doesn't eliminate the more plodding sorts of meter if one wants to use them. Although with the options available to contemporary lyric poets i fail to see why one would want to remain shackled to received forms and meters. On Wed, 2 Jan 2008, Michael Snider wrote: > > On Jan 2, 2008, at 4:12 PM, jfq at myuw.net wrote: > >> well, not wanting to overstate the case, obviously they matter. but i think >> only as a tertiary concern when compared to the relative pattern of weights >> and stresses and also the fact of various forms of silence and pauses that >> are generally unaccounted for, but hugely influential in the rhythm of >> verse. account for that, and if there are no irregularities there, then >> sure, you might turn to syllable count to smooth wrinkles. > > > All that goes on--silences, dipthongs, rhetorical stress, and much more--but > the rhthm of a metrical poem is neither those things it inherits from natural > speech nor its meter, but is instead a product of the interaction of meter and > speech. It's not shoe-horning, though Bob G is correct that meter results in > what you miight call "nudges" either up or down on the natural speech stress of > a phrase. Those nudges come from a more-or-less strict pattern of stressed and > unstressed syllables within the feet of the poem--and only contrasting stress > within a foot, not between feet, counts for the meter. > > BTW, the terms of traditional English prosody are Greek in origin but they > don't even pretend to refer to the same phenomena, though Sidney and a few > others were a might confused early on. > > And hiya, folks. Been mostly off-net for a while, and the several thousand > unread New Poetry emails were a little intimidating. I finally decided to just > jump over the lot. > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > From jforjames Wed Jan 2 19:35:32 2008 From: jforjames (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Wed, 02 Jan 2008 19:35:32 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Ashbery on the News Hour Message-ID: <8CA1BB7AED0B439-754-19F9@webmail-db02.sysops.aol.com> http://www.pbs.org/newshour/indepth_coverage/entertainment/poetry/index.html Ashbery everywhere. ________________________________________________________________________ More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://webmail.aol.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mandolin Wed Jan 2 19:41:17 2008 From: mandolin (Michael Snider) Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2008 19:41:17 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Questions on form In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <80C57145-00AB-43A4-9656-4852BA26BF0F@mac.com> The only beef I have with linguistic prosody is that its practitioners call it prosody, which confuses the hell out of the issue for people who want to make poems. Sure it's capable of decribing more, and more subtle, effects than is traditional poetic prosody, but the whole point of metrical poetry is to make a dance between those effects catalogued in scientific prosody (but used unconsciously by all of us) and the deliberately schematic meters which poets can actually use. Scientific, linguistic prosidies are wonderful for description of the characteristics of a language and for analytical, even predictive work on the relationships between languages or between the dialects within a language, but I cannot imagine using it as a principle of composition. How maintain all that apparatus in consciousness? And, if unconscious, how is it different from cultivating an ear? On Jan 2, 2008, at 6:21 PM, jfq at myuw.net wrote: > > I agree that this is the traditional view of meter in classical > prosody, and laid out more eloquently than i have done so, so > thanks. But i don't think I'm wrong to call it shoehorning because > it doesn't emerge from the rhythms of natural speech. That's pretty > central to the point i'm trying to make: that the rhythm of poetry > ought to emerge from the rhythm of natural speech. I recognize it as > a prescriptive position, certainly, but I think a good case can be > made for it on several good grounds. Not the least, but certainly > not the only one either, is that a view of meter based on modern > scientific prosody gives the poet a richer palette not just as > regards rhythm but with all prosodic devices which rely on their > timing in relation to eachother to have their effect. Allowing for > greater subtlety in composition is a good thing, because it doesn't > eliminate the more plodding sorts of meter if one wants to use them. > Although with the options available to contemporary lyric poets i > fail to see why one would want to remain shackled to received forms > and meters. > > On Wed, 2 Jan 2008, Michael Snider wrote: > >> >> On Jan 2, 2008, at 4:12 PM, jfq at myuw.net wrote: >> >>> well, not wanting to overstate the case, obviously they matter. >>> but i think only as a tertiary concern when compared to the >>> relative pattern of weights and stresses and also the fact of >>> various forms of silence and pauses that are generally unaccounted >>> for, but hugely influential in the rhythm of verse. account for >>> that, and if there are no irregularities there, then sure, you >>> might turn to syllable count to smooth wrinkles. >> >> >> All that goes on--silences, dipthongs, rhetorical stress, and much >> more--but the rhthm of a metrical poem is neither those things it >> inherits from natural speech nor its meter, but is instead a >> product of the interaction of meter and speech. It's not shoe- >> horning, though Bob G is correct that meter results in what you >> miight call "nudges" either up or down on the natural speech stress >> of a phrase. Those nudges come from a more-or-less strict pattern >> of stressed and unstressed syllables within the feet of the poem-- >> and only contrasting stress within a foot, not between feet, counts >> for the meter. >> >> BTW, the terms of traditional English prosody are Greek in origin >> but they don't even pretend to refer to the same phenomena, though >> Sidney and a few others were a might confused early on. >> >> And hiya, folks. Been mostly off-net for a while, and the several >> thousand unread New Poetry emails were a little intimidating. I >> finally decided to just jump over the lot. >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From jfq Wed Jan 2 20:03:35 2008 From: jfq (jfq at myuw.net) Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2008 17:03:35 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] Questions on form In-Reply-To: <80C57145-00AB-43A4-9656-4852BA26BF0F@mac.com> Message-ID: I really don't think there's _that_ much apparatus to it, or at least no more so than one gets in modern music theory in a music school, or in color theory and the like when you study painting. I can't speak for everyone, but for me, thinking in terms of four levels of stress, of comparing sentence level stress as it works with intonation to word level stress, and the use of various punctuation devices to create pauses and control the stresses of the sentence is something that's become more or less second nature to me since I've started using it in my writing. which isn't to say that it's something that I do unconsciously. nor is it something i'm constantly aware of, but rather it's a tool by which i can shape my lines to the effect I want to have without having to worry over much about whether they'll turn out all right. Make them work enough and they'll be ok and won't need much polish after the act of composition. One can, i believe, approach writing in a way similar to the technique of sumi-e in japanese painting and be very successful. Or, one can be a mannerist and consider decisions and composition very carefully as one builds. My poetic goal is to do both at the same time, and while i feel like i still have a long way to go to get there, even the act of trying to do it has given me a method which contrasts sharply with what I tend to think that the general practice as it's taught in writing programs (the inspiration and revision process) that seems to try to split the difference between the two extreme's of approach, and I think that's fine too but i also think it tends to create a certain kind of writing. If you'll permit me the conceit, i like my approach better because I feel its led me in more interesting and original directions than working with a more tradesman like inspiration and revision sort of process ever did. You're right though, in comparing the overall goal to developing an ear. What I'd point out as the correlary to that is that there is more than one kind of ear, and more than one way to develop it. In the end, maybe "you just go on your nerve" or at least i like to, but your nerve is different depending on how it's been cultivated. On Wed, 2 Jan 2008, Michael Snider wrote: > The only beef I have with linguistic prosody is that its practitioners call it > prosody, which confuses the hell out of the issue for people who want to make > poems. Sure it's capable of decribing more, and more subtle, effects than is > traditional poetic prosody, but the whole point of metrical poetry is to make a > dance between those effects catalogued in scientific prosody (but used > unconsciously by all of us) and the deliberately schematic meters which poets > can actually use. > > Scientific, linguistic prosidies are wonderful for description of the > characteristics of a language and for analytical, even predictive work on the > relationships between languages or between the dialects within a language, but > I cannot imagine using it as a principle of composition. How maintain all that > apparatus in consciousness? And, if unconscious, how is it different from > cultivating an ear? > > On Jan 2, 2008, at 6:21 PM, jfq at myuw.net wrote: > >> >> I agree that this is the traditional view of meter in classical prosody, and >> laid out more eloquently than i have done so, so thanks. But i don't think >> I'm wrong to call it shoehorning because it doesn't emerge from the rhythms >> of natural speech. That's pretty central to the point i'm trying to make: >> that the rhythm of poetry ought to emerge from the rhythm of natural speech. >> I recognize it as a prescriptive position, certainly, but I think a good >> case can be made for it on several good grounds. Not the least, but >> certainly not the only one either, is that a view of meter based on modern >> scientific prosody gives the poet a richer palette not just as regards >> rhythm but with all prosodic devices which rely on their timing in relation >> to eachother to have their effect. Allowing for greater subtlety in >> composition is a good thing, because it doesn't eliminate the more plodding >> sorts of meter if one wants to use them. Although with the options available >> to contemporary lyric poets i fail to see why one would want to remain >> shackled to received forms and meters. >> >> On Wed, 2 Jan 2008, Michael Snider wrote: >> >>> >>> On Jan 2, 2008, at 4:12 PM, jfq at myuw.net wrote: >>> >>>> well, not wanting to overstate the case, obviously they matter. but i >>>> think only as a tertiary concern when compared to the relative pattern >>>> of weights and stresses and also the fact of various forms of silence >>>> and pauses that are generally unaccounted for, but hugely influential in >>>> the rhythm of verse. account for that, and if there are no >>>> irregularities there, then sure, you might turn to syllable count to >>>> smooth wrinkles. >>> >>> >>> All that goes on--silences, dipthongs, rhetorical stress, and much >>> more--but the rhthm of a metrical poem is neither those things it inherits >>> from natural speech nor its meter, but is instead a product of the >>> interaction of meter and speech. It's not shoe-horning, though Bob G is >>> correct that meter results in what you miight call "nudges" either up or >>> down on the natural speech stress of a phrase. Those nudges come from a >>> more-or-less strict pattern of stressed and unstressed syllables within >>> the feet of the poem--and only contrasting stress within a foot, not >>> between feet, counts for the meter. >>> >>> BTW, the terms of traditional English prosody are Greek in origin but they >>> don't even pretend to refer to the same phenomena, though Sidney and a few >>> others were a might confused early on. >>> >>> And hiya, folks. Been mostly off-net for a while, and the several thousand >>> unread New Poetry emails were a little intimidating. I finally decided to >>> just jump over the lot. >>> _______________________________________________ >>> New-Poetry mailing list >>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > From Opus40-01 Wed Jan 2 20:35:05 2008 From: Opus40-01 (TheOldMole) Date: Wed, 02 Jan 2008 20:35:05 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] What am I letting myself in for? In-Reply-To: <24AEF7E4-C75C-4511-BE1E-98EDCCB712E2@ripon.edu> References: <24AEF7E4-C75C-4511-BE1E-98EDCCB712E2@ripon.edu> Message-ID: <477C3BC9.506@opus40.org> Xavier? The J is Joseph, because his friends call him Joe. No one's tried my trivia question yet. Who's referenced by both Auden and Groucho Marx? David Graham wrote: > > > > On Jan 2, 2008, at 2:50 PM, jfq at myuw.net wrote: >> >> At least it's not someone named XJ Kennedy though. >> ----------- > > Trivia question: What does the X in X. J. Kennedy stand for? And > what's the J? No fair Googling. . . . > > > ======================================== > David Graham > grahamd at ripon.edu > > Home Page: > http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/About%20Me.html > > Poetry Library: > http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html > ========================================== > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ The moral is this: in American verse, The better you are, the pay is worse. --Corey Ford From bobgrumman Wed Jan 2 21:10:27 2008 From: bobgrumman (Bob Grumman) Date: Wed, 02 Jan 2008 21:10:27 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Questions on form In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <477C4413.1060207@nut-n-but.net> > Although with the options available to contemporary lyric poets i fail > to see why one would want to remain shackled to received forms and > meters. You don't feel a poet can work with a received form and meter once in a while and at other times take advantage of the options available to contemporary lyric poets? Also, to respond to the post of yours that asks about slam poets, I feel Bob Holman has very catholic taste, and seems supportive of all forms of poetry. But, as a visual poet, I sympathize with the slam poets who think of themselves as a we against the them of Kooser, Bernstein and other Establishment Poets, most of whom are as biased against poetry not like theirs as the slam poets you were referring to. --Bob G. From jjeffreymail Wed Jan 2 21:18:50 2008 From: jjeffreymail (John Jeffrey) Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2008 18:18:50 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Where are the war poets? In-Reply-To: <42D6A423-8B6A-454A-A455-06C96F531E95@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <698625.28037.qm@web54108.mail.re2.yahoo.com> And so tonight I get a email from the Poetry Society of America about a reading of --------------------------------- Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman Wed Jan 2 21:27:36 2008 From: bobgrumman (Bob Grumman) Date: Wed, 02 Jan 2008 21:27:36 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Questions on form In-Reply-To: <80C57145-00AB-43A4-9656-4852BA26BF0F@mac.com> References: <80C57145-00AB-43A4-9656-4852BA26BF0F@mac.com> Message-ID: <477C4818.6030408@nut-n-but.net> For whoever is interested, I pronounce "and" as two syllables, and it's not the only supposedly one-syllable word I pronounce as two syllables. In fact, don't think there are many words I pronounce as only one-syllable words. --BObuh From mandolin Wed Jan 2 22:56:55 2008 From: mandolin (Michael Snider) Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2008 22:56:55 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Questions on form In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Well, we agree on this at least: every poet, whether writing in meter or not, ought to work with "sentece level stress as it works with intonation to word level stress, and the use of various punctuation devices to create pauses and control the stresses of the sentence," But on the matter of apparatus--why stop at 4 levels of stress? Tim Steele uses them for pedagocical purposes, to show that an untressed syllable in a given foot my actually have greater speech stress than the stressed syallable in an adjacent foot [ his(1) rough(2) / grip(3) hurt(4) is two perfectly regular iambic feet with each successive syllable more strongly stressed than its predecessor], but speech stress is analog and infinitely variable. Why not graph stress with a curve? The point is that 4 levels of stress is just as arbitrary as 2-- and I'd argue less useful rhythmically, just as, in music, the time signature gives rhythmic guidance to the player (and the dancer!) without reference to whether the passage is played piano, pianisimo, forte, crescendo, diminuendo -- sheer stress does not produce rhythm, but repeated patters of stress and unstress do. How much can a reader or listener retain of a pattern of 4 levels of stress, given that inevitably the poet's 4 levels will be actually heard (and readers hear, and readers' brains enact) as difference from beat to beat, that is, as stressed or unstressed? Still, fair enough--especially "i like my approach better because I feel its led me in more interesting and original directions than working with a more tradesman like inspiration and revision sort of process ever did." I think personally inspiration is vastly overrated, or, said a little differently, that inspiration is what happens when one works at revision. On Jan 2, 2008, at 8:03 PM, jfq at myuw.net wrote: > > I really don't think there's _that_ much apparatus to it, or at > least no more so than one gets in modern music theory in a music > school, or in color theory and the like when you study painting. I > can't speak for everyone, but for me, thinking in terms of four > levels of stress, of comparing sentence level stress as it works > with intonation to word level stress, and the use of various > punctuation devices to create pauses and control the stresses of the > sentence is something that's become more or less second nature to me > since I've started using it in my writing. which isn't to say that > it's something that I do unconsciously. nor is it something i'm > constantly aware of, but rather it's a tool by which i can shape my > lines to the effect I want to have without having to worry over much > about whether they'll turn out all right. Make them work enough and > they'll be ok and won't need much polish after the act of > composition. One can, i believe, approach writing in a way similar > to the technique of sumi-e in japanese painting and be very > successful. Or, one can be a mannerist and consider decisions and > composition very carefully as one builds. My poetic goal is to do > both at the same time, and while i feel like i still have a long way > to go to get there, even the act of trying to do it has given me a > method which contrasts sharply with what I tend to think that the > general practice as it's taught in writing programs (the inspiration > and revision process) that seems to try to split the difference > between the two extreme's of approach, and I think that's fine too > but i also think it tends to create a certain kind of writing. > > If you'll permit me the conceit, i like my approach better because I > feel its led me in more interesting and original directions than > working with a more tradesman like inspiration and revision sort of > process ever did. You're right though, in comparing the overall goal > to developing an ear. What I'd point out as the correlary to that is > that there is more than one kind of ear, and more than one way to > develop it. In the end, maybe "you just go on your nerve" or at > least i like to, but your nerve is different depending on how it's > been cultivated. > > > On Wed, 2 Jan 2008, Michael Snider wrote: > >> The only beef I have with linguistic prosody is that its >> practitioners call it prosody, which confuses the hell out of the >> issue for people who want to make poems. Sure it's capable of >> decribing more, and more subtle, effects than is traditional poetic >> prosody, but the whole point of metrical poetry is to make a dance >> between those effects catalogued in scientific prosody (but used >> unconsciously by all of us) and the deliberately schematic meters >> which poets can actually use. >> >> Scientific, linguistic prosidies are wonderful for description of >> the characteristics of a language and for analytical, even >> predictive work on the relationships between languages or between >> the dialects within a language, but I cannot imagine using it as a >> principle of composition. How maintain all that apparatus in >> consciousness? And, if unconscious, how is it different from >> cultivating an ear? >> >> On Jan 2, 2008, at 6:21 PM, jfq at myuw.net wrote: >> >>> I agree that this is the traditional view of meter in classical >>> prosody, and laid out more eloquently than i have done so, so >>> thanks. But i don't think I'm wrong to call it shoehorning because >>> it doesn't emerge from the rhythms of natural speech. That's >>> pretty central to the point i'm trying to make: that the rhythm of >>> poetry ought to emerge from the rhythm of natural speech. I >>> recognize it as a prescriptive position, certainly, but I think a >>> good case can be made for it on several good grounds. Not the >>> least, but certainly not the only one either, is that a view of >>> meter based on modern scientific prosody gives the poet a richer >>> palette not just as regards rhythm but with all prosodic devices >>> which rely on their timing in relation to eachother to have their >>> effect. Allowing for greater subtlety in composition is a good >>> thing, because it doesn't eliminate the more plodding sorts of >>> meter if one wants to use them. Although with the options >>> available to contemporary lyric poets i fail to see why one would >>> want to remain shackled to received forms and meters. >>> On Wed, 2 Jan 2008, Michael Snider wrote: >>>> On Jan 2, 2008, at 4:12 PM, jfq at myuw.net wrote: >>>>> well, not wanting to overstate the case, obviously they matter. >>>>> but i think only as a tertiary concern when compared to the >>>>> relative pattern of weights and stresses and also the fact of >>>>> various forms of silence and pauses that are generally >>>>> unaccounted for, but hugely influential in the rhythm of verse. >>>>> account for that, and if there are no irregularities there, then >>>>> sure, you might turn to syllable count to smooth wrinkles. >>>> All that goes on--silences, dipthongs, rhetorical stress, and >>>> much more--but the rhthm of a metrical poem is neither those >>>> things it inherits from natural speech nor its meter, but is >>>> instead a product of the interaction of meter and speech. It's >>>> not shoe-horning, though Bob G is correct that meter results in >>>> what you miight call "nudges" either up or down on the natural >>>> speech stress of a phrase. Those nudges come from a more-or-less >>>> strict pattern of stressed and unstressed syllables within the >>>> feet of the poem--and only contrasting stress within a foot, not >>>> between feet, counts for the meter. >>>> BTW, the terms of traditional English prosody are Greek in origin >>>> but they don't even pretend to refer to the same phenomena, >>>> though Sidney and a few others were a might confused early on. >>>> And hiya, folks. Been mostly off-net for a while, and the several >>>> thousand unread New Poetry emails were a little intimidating. I >>>> finally decided to just jump over the lot. >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> New-Poetry mailing list >>>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>> _______________________________________________ >>> New-Poetry mailing list >>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From mandolin Wed Jan 2 23:46:18 2008 From: mandolin (Michael Snider) Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2008 23:46:18 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] pantoum (program is not a repeat) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3DCAEB58-8F00-4202-8706-D1450BA094FF@mac.com> On Nov 17, 2007, at 6:16 PM, JforJames at aol.com wrote: > http://www.abc.net.au/rn/poetica/ > > The Pantoum is a verse form that derived from the traditional > Malaysian improvised poem the Pantun. Imported into the west by the > 19th century French poet Ernest Fouinet, the Pantoum is based on > four-line stanzas where the second and fourth line of the preceding > stanza become the first and third line of the next. > I've got a bluegrass pantoum: Your mama?s got a package for you right around back. She told me I should tell you should I see you walking by Since you?re looking like you?re needing something in your gunny sack. She says you?re gonna like it and she never tells a lie. She told me I should tell you should I see you walking by, Your mama found a pretty when she went to Bowling Green. She says you?re gonna like it and she never tells a lie. She says this kind of pretty?s something you ain?t never seen. Your mama found a pretty when she went to Bowling Green. She brought it back to give to you to play with like a toy. She says this kind of pretty?s something you ain?t never seen. She?ll show you how to use it. You?re her very favorite boy. She brought it back to give to you to play with like a toy Since you?re looking like you?re needing something in your gunny sack. She?ll show you how to use it. You?re her very favorite boy? Your mama?s got a package for you right around back. From grahamd Thu Jan 3 00:12:00 2008 From: grahamd (David Graham) Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2008 23:12:00 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Bias against slam In-Reply-To: <477C4413.1060207@nut-n-but.net> References: <477C4413.1060207@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <31004864-1997-49F7-8C75-8757D3DDE029@ripon.edu> Very interesting choice of examples of establishment poets who are hostile to "other" forms of poetry, presumably including spoken word. You might do a little research on what Kooser & Bernstein have had to say about oral performance, and get back to the group with your findings. (Hint: take a look at a book titled *Close Listening: Poetry & the Performed Word*, ed. C. Bernstein.) ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/About%20Me.html Poetry Library: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== On Jan 2, 2008, at 8:10 PM, Bob Grumman wrote: > I sympathize with the slam poets who think of themselves as a we > against the them of Kooser, Bernstein and other Establishment > Poets, most of whom are as biased against poetry not like theirs > as the slam poets you were referring to. > > --Bob G. > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini Thu Jan 3 07:37:54 2008 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 13:37:54 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] 7 Things you should know about being a poet... Message-ID: <003201c84e05$76cf28b0$5aaa3852@ANNY> see on Bob & Margery's Poetry Blog: http://poetry.about.com/b/2008/01/02/7-things-you-should-know-about-being-a-poet-a-list-of-lists.htm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard Thu Jan 3 13:18:14 2008 From: halvard (Halvard Johnson) Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 12:18:14 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] And a little trivia for the new year... In-Reply-To: <477AB3AC.7070607@opus40.org> References: <477AB3AC.7070607@opus40.org> Message-ID: <6D201C66-717F-449D-85EB-7D7D0E6739FA@earthlink.net> Best guess: Shakespeare Second-best guess: Ogden Nash Hal "In America, it's the bottom of the ninth, we're five runs behind, there are two outs, nobody on base, weak hitter at the plate, and the fat lady's getting up to sing." --Anon. Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html On Jan 1, 2008, at 3:42 PM, TheOldMole wrote: > Who is referenced by both Auden and Groucho Marx? > > -- > Tad Richards > http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ > http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ > > The moral is this: in American verse, > The better you are, the pay is worse. > --Corey Ford > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From halvard Thu Jan 3 13:23:59 2008 From: halvard (Halvard Johnson) Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 12:23:59 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] What am I letting myself in for? In-Reply-To: <9b1b9dab0801021437v6146f48etc5d0f16d5bbaa0c9@mail.gmail.com> References: <24AEF7E4-C75C-4511-BE1E-98EDCCB712E2@ripon.edu> <9b1b9dab0801021437v6146f48etc5d0f16d5bbaa0c9@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Xenophobic Jesuitical Hal, who knows w/o googling Serving the tristate area. Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html On Jan 2, 2008, at 4:37 PM, Chris Lott wrote: > On Jan 2, 2008 1:28 PM, David Graham wrote: >> ----------- >> Trivia question: What does the X in X. J. Kennedy stand for? And >> what's >> the J? No fair Googling. . . . > > Well it has to be something strange then...nothing? A political > statement, like the X in Malcolm X but really, really white? > > c > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From anny.ballardini Thu Jan 3 13:32:22 2008 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 19:32:22 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fw: American Life in Poetry: Column 145 Message-ID: <005801c84e36$fb604510$92ac3452@ANNY> ----- Original Message ----- From: Subject: American Life in Poetry: Column 145 > > BY TED KOOSER, U.S. POET LAUREATE, 2004-2006 > Rynn Williams > > Insomnia > > I try tearing paper into tiny, perfect squares-- > they cut my fingers. Warm milk, perhaps, > stirred counter-clockwise in a cast iron pan-- > but even then there's burning at the edges, > angry foam-hiss. I've been told > to put trumpet flowers under my pillow, > I do: stamen up, the old crone said. > But the pollen stains, and there are bees, > I swear, in those long yellow chambers, echoing, > the way the house does, mocking, with its longevity-- > each rib creaking and bending where I'm likely to break-- > > I try floating out along the long O of lone, > to where it flattens to loss, and just stay there > disconnecting the dots of my night sky > as one would take apart a house made of sticks, > carefully, last addition to first, > like sheep leaping backward into their pens. > > > American Life in Poetry is made possible by The Poetry Foundation > (www.poetryfoundation.org), publisher of Poetry magazine. It is also > supported by the Department of English at the University of > Nebraska-Lincoln. Poem copyright (c) 2007 by Rynn Williams, whose most > recent book of poetry is "Adonis Garage," University of Nebraska Press, > 2005. Poem reprinted from "Columbia Poetry Review," no. 20, Spring 2007, > by permission of Rynn Williams. Introduction copyright (c) 2007 by The > Poetry Foundation. The introduction's author, Ted Kooser, served as > United States Poet Laureate Consultant in Poetry to the Library of > Congress from 2004-2006. We do not accept unsolicited manuscripts. > > ****************************** > > American Life in Poetry provides newspapers and online publications with a > free weekly column featuring contemporary American poems. The sole > mission of this project is to promote poetry: American Life in Poetry > seeks to create a vigorous presence for poetry in our culture. There are > no costs for reprinting the columns; we do require that you register your > publication here and that the text of the column be reproduced without > alteration. > From anny.ballardini Thu Jan 3 13:34:13 2008 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 19:34:13 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] And a little trivia for the new year... References: <477AB3AC.7070607@opus40.org> <6D201C66-717F-449D-85EB-7D7D0E6739FA@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <005f01c84e37$3d33c570$92ac3452@ANNY> _me_ ! From: "Halvard Johnson" Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2008 7:18 PM > Best guess: Shakespeare > Second-best guess: Ogden Nash > > Hal > > "In America, it's the bottom of the ninth, > we're five runs behind, there are two outs, > nobody on base, weak hitter at the plate, > and the fat lady's getting up to sing." > --Anon. > > Halvard Johnson > ================ > halvard at earthlink.net > http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > http://www.hamiltonstone.org > http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html > > > > On Jan 1, 2008, at 3:42 PM, TheOldMole wrote: > >> Who is referenced by both Auden and Groucho Marx? >> >> -- >> Tad Richards >> http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ >> http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ >> >> The moral is this: in American verse, >> The better you are, the pay is worse. >> --Corey Ford From Opus40-01 Thu Jan 3 14:14:46 2008 From: Opus40-01 (TheOldMole) Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2008 14:14:46 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] And a little trivia for the new year... In-Reply-To: <005f01c84e37$3d33c570$92ac3452@ANNY> References: <477AB3AC.7070607@opus40.org> <6D201C66-717F-449D-85EB-7D7D0E6739FA@earthlink.net> <005f01c84e37$3d33c570$92ac3452@ANNY> Message-ID: <477D3426.7030508@opus40.org> They certainly both should have reference Anny. But the answer lies elsewhere. It's mad Nijinksy, about shom Auden tells us that what he wrote about Diaghilev is true of the human heart. and who appears on the epidermis of Lydia the tattooed lady doing the rhumba, right next to Lydia's Social Security numba. Sung by Groucho, written by Harold Arlen and E. Y. Harburg. For reasons obscure to me now, I was once invited to Yip Harburg's Christmas party, which involved singing carols around the piano, with Yip, octogenarian but still lively, at the piano. Among the guests was Paul Robeson Jr., who looked very much like his father, had a deep baritone voice...and couldn't carry a tune in a bucket. Anny Ballardini wrote: > _me_ > ! > > From: "Halvard Johnson" > Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2008 7:18 PM > > >> Best guess: Shakespeare >> Second-best guess: Ogden Nash >> >> Hal >> >> "In America, it's the bottom of the ninth, >> we're five runs behind, there are two outs, >> nobody on base, weak hitter at the plate, >> and the fat lady's getting up to sing." >> --Anon. >> >> Halvard Johnson >> ================ >> halvard at earthlink.net >> http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html >> http://entropyandme.blogspot.com >> http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com >> http://www.hamiltonstone.org >> http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html >> >> >> >> On Jan 1, 2008, at 3:42 PM, TheOldMole wrote: >> >>> Who is referenced by both Auden and Groucho Marx? >>> >>> -- >>> Tad Richards >>> http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ >>> http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ >>> >>> The moral is this: in American verse, >>> The better you are, the pay is worse. >>> --Corey Ford > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ The moral is this: in American verse, The better you are, the pay is worse. --Corey Ford From jfq Thu Jan 3 15:40:23 2008 From: jfq (jfq at myuw.net) Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 12:40:23 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] Questions on form In-Reply-To: <477C4413.1060207@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 2 Jan 2008, Bob Grumman wrote: >> Although with the options available to contemporary lyric poets i fail to >> see why one would want to remain shackled to received forms and meters. > You don't feel a poet can work with a received form and meter once in a while > and at other times take advantage of the options available to contemporary > lyric poets? Oh absolutely. But I think it's important to look at received form and classical scansion as a limited subset of a wider field, rather than the beginning and end of the field which is the position of a many these days. > Also, to respond to the post of yours that asks about slam poets, I feel Bob > Holman has very catholic taste, and seems supportive of all forms of poetry. > But, as a visual poet, I sympathize with the slam poets who think of themselves > as a we against the them of Kooser, Bernstein and other Establishment Poets, > most of whom are as biased against poetry not like theirs as the slam poets > you were referring to. Absolutely. I like a lot of slam poets, Anis Mojgani and Buddy Wakefield in particular. And I definitely relate to the us vs. the them of the establishment. As a lyric/audio poet, it's tough working out a niche in a field so dominated by performance poetry on the one side and new formalism on the other. Still, what I think is a little bit limiting for the slam scene that doesn't seem to be the case with visual poets I'm familiar with, or my case hopefully, is that while politically we may see the AWP Unnofficial Stylebook as an 800 pound gorilla that the world would be better off without, I think there's an awareness that there are elements within there that are more or less aesthetically in alignment with whatever projects we're working on. Whereas in Slam there's a sort of pervasive ignorance of everything going on beyond the confines of Poetry Slam Inc., Taos, and Youth Speaks. From anny.ballardini Thu Jan 3 15:43:45 2008 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 21:43:45 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] And a little trivia for the new year... References: <477AB3AC.7070607@opus40.org> <6D201C66-717F-449D-85EB-7D7D0E6739FA@earthlink.net><005f01c84e37$3d33c570$92ac3452@ANNY> <477D3426.7030508@opus40.org> Message-ID: <00ee01c84e49$55d54b00$92ac3452@ANNY> Thank you Tad. My answer was a little less boastful. "Me" was conceived in the spirit of "Nobody" as indicated by Ulysses with Polyphemus. "Nobody is killing me either by treachery or brute violence!" "Me" therefore is anybody and nobody and very probably used by both: Auden and Groucho Marx. From: "TheOldMole" Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2008 8:14 PM > They certainly both should have reference Anny. But the answer lies > elsewhere. It's mad Nijinksy, about shom Auden tells us that what he wrote > about Diaghilev is true of the human heart. and who appears on the > epidermis of Lydia the tattooed lady doing the rhumba, right next to > Lydia's Social Security numba. Sung by Groucho, written by Harold Arlen > and E. Y. Harburg. > > For reasons obscure to me now, I was once invited to Yip Harburg's > Christmas party, which involved singing carols around the piano, with Yip, > octogenarian but still lively, at the piano. Among the guests was Paul > Robeson Jr., who looked very much like his father, had a deep baritone > voice...and couldn't carry a tune in a bucket. > > > > Anny Ballardini wrote: >> _me_ >> ! >> >> From: "Halvard Johnson" >> Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2008 7:18 PM >> >> >>> Best guess: Shakespeare >>> Second-best guess: Ogden Nash >>> >>> Hal >>> >>> "In America, it's the bottom of the ninth, >>> we're five runs behind, there are two outs, >>> nobody on base, weak hitter at the plate, >>> and the fat lady's getting up to sing." >>> --Anon. >>> >>> Halvard Johnson >>> ================ >>> halvard at earthlink.net >>> http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html >>> http://entropyandme.blogspot.com >>> http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com >>> http://www.hamiltonstone.org >>> http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html >>> >>> >>> >>> On Jan 1, 2008, at 3:42 PM, TheOldMole wrote: >>> >>>> Who is referenced by both Auden and Groucho Marx? >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Tad Richards >>>> http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ >>>> http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ >>>> >>>> The moral is this: in American verse, >>>> The better you are, the pay is worse. >>>> --Corey Ford From halvard Thu Jan 3 15:56:42 2008 From: halvard (Halvard Johnson) Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 14:56:42 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] And a little trivia for the new year... In-Reply-To: <477D3426.7030508@opus40.org> References: <477AB3AC.7070607@opus40.org> <6D201C66-717F-449D-85EB-7D7D0E6739FA@earthlink.net> <005f01c84e37$3d33c570$92ac3452@ANNY> <477D3426.7030508@opus40.org> Message-ID: <7C3BDDF5-E7F8-4EBE-8B4F-974F71ECA8FE@earthlink.net> I'd love to take your word for it, Tad, but first kindly show that the two of them never referenced Shakespeare and/or Nash. Hal "Imagination is more important than knowledge." --Albert Einstein Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html On Jan 3, 2008, at 1:14 PM, TheOldMole wrote: > They certainly both should have reference Anny. But the answer lies > elsewhere. It's mad Nijinksy, about shom Auden tells us that what he > wrote about Diaghilev is true of the human heart. and who appears on > the epidermis of Lydia the tattooed lady doing the rhumba, right > next to Lydia's Social Security numba. Sung by Groucho, written by > Harold Arlen and E. Y. Harburg. > > For reasons obscure to me now, I was once invited to Yip Harburg's > Christmas party, which involved singing carols around the piano, > with Yip, octogenarian but still lively, at the piano. Among the > guests was Paul Robeson Jr., who looked very much like his father, > had a deep baritone voice...and couldn't carry a tune in a bucket. > > > > Anny Ballardini wrote: >> _me_ >> ! >> >> From: "Halvard Johnson" >> Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2008 7:18 PM >> >> >>> Best guess: Shakespeare >>> Second-best guess: Ogden Nash >>> >>> Hal >>> >>> "In America, it's the bottom of the ninth, >>> we're five runs behind, there are two outs, >>> nobody on base, weak hitter at the plate, >>> and the fat lady's getting up to sing." >>> --Anon. >>> >>> Halvard Johnson >>> ================ >>> halvard at earthlink.net >>> http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html >>> http://entropyandme.blogspot.com >>> http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com >>> http://www.hamiltonstone.org >>> http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html >>> >>> >>> >>> On Jan 1, 2008, at 3:42 PM, TheOldMole wrote: >>> >>>> Who is referenced by both Auden and Groucho Marx? >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Tad Richards >>>> http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ >>>> http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ >>>> >>>> The moral is this: in American verse, >>>> The better you are, the pay is worse. >>>> --Corey Ford >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> > > -- > Tad Richards > http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ > http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ > > The moral is this: in American verse, > The better you are, the pay is worse. > --Corey Ford > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From anny.ballardini Thu Jan 3 16:06:47 2008 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 22:06:47 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] a question Message-ID: <010801c84e4c$8d66e170$92ac3452@ANNY> Which is the name in literature you liked most (male and female)? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From screwzbaran Thu Jan 3 16:08:19 2008 From: screwzbaran (Suzanne Baran) Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 13:08:19 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] a question In-Reply-To: <010801c84e4c$8d66e170$92ac3452@ANNY> References: <010801c84e4c$8d66e170$92ac3452@ANNY> Message-ID: <2d5ffa0b0801031308t4bac2007x3c769ec53ac9f07f@mail.gmail.com> Male=Heathcliff Female=Cosette On Jan 3, 2008 1:06 PM, Anny Ballardini wrote: > Which is the name in literature you liked most (male and female)? > > ------------------------------ > Anny Ballardini > http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ > http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome > http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html > I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing > star! > Friedrich Nietzsche > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Similar to the unifying and integrating self that Carl Jung perceived in the depths of the ego, the term greater self in Buddhism expresses the openness and expansiveness of character by which we can embrace all people's sufferings as our own. The greater self always seeks to alleviate pain and to augment the happiness of others here amid the realities of everyday life. Furthermore, the dynamic, vital awakening of the greater self enables each individual to experience both life and death with equal delight. Wisdom for Modern Life - Daisaku Ikeda -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jfq Thu Jan 3 16:28:40 2008 From: jfq (jfq at myuw.net) Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 13:28:40 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] a question In-Reply-To: <010801c84e4c$8d66e170$92ac3452@ANNY> Message-ID: Roskolnikov always resonated with me for some reason, so i'd say that for the male name. for a female name, I always liked "Brett" (bret? it's been a while) from the sun also rises. On Thu, 3 Jan 2008, Anny Ballardini wrote: > Which is the name in literature you liked most (male and female)? > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Anny Ballardini > http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ > http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome > http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html > I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! > Friedrich Nietzsche > From jeff.newberry Thu Jan 3 16:32:03 2008 From: jeff.newberry (Jeff Newberry) Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 16:32:03 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] a question In-Reply-To: <2d5ffa0b0801031308t4bac2007x3c769ec53ac9f07f@mail.gmail.com> References: <010801c84e4c$8d66e170$92ac3452@ANNY> <2d5ffa0b0801031308t4bac2007x3c769ec53ac9f07f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <731bb17a0801031332u4d7fc57dv7961b75ca47075fa@mail.gmail.com> Love the question, Anny. Male: Joe Christmas Female: Brett Ashley Jeff Newberry On Jan 3, 2008 4:08 PM, Suzanne Baran wrote: > Male=Heathcliff > Female=Cosette > > On Jan 3, 2008 1:06 PM, Anny Ballardini wrote: > > > Which is the name in literature you liked most (male and female)? > > > > ------------------------------ > > Anny Ballardini > > http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ > > http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome > > http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html > > I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing > > star! > > Friedrich Nietzsche > > > > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > > > -- > Similar to the unifying and integrating self that Carl Jung perceived in > the depths of the ego, the term greater self in Buddhism expresses the > openness and expansiveness of character by which we can embrace all people's > sufferings as our own. The greater self always seeks to alleviate pain and > to augment > the happiness of others here amid the realities of everyday life. > Furthermore, the dynamic, vital awakening of the greater self enables each > individual to experience both life and death with equal delight. > > Wisdom for Modern Life - Daisaku Ikeda > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- "Memory believes before knowing remembers. Believes longer than recollects, longer than knowing even wonders." ?William Faulkner, Light in August http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Opus40-01 Thu Jan 3 16:39:53 2008 From: Opus40-01 (TheOldMole) Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2008 16:39:53 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] And a little trivia for the new year... In-Reply-To: <7C3BDDF5-E7F8-4EBE-8B4F-974F71ECA8FE@earthlink.net> References: <477AB3AC.7070607@opus40.org> <6D201C66-717F-449D-85EB-7D7D0E6739FA@earthlink.net> <005f01c84e37$3d33c570$92ac3452@ANNY> <477D3426.7030508@opus40.org> <7C3BDDF5-E7F8-4EBE-8B4F-974F71ECA8FE@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <477D5629.8020205@opus40.org> Wait -- you may be right. I had forgotten this verse: Time, that with this strange excuse Pardoned Kipling and his views, And will pardon Ogden Nash, Pardon him for writing trash. and this one: To war! To war! Freedonia's going to war! If Ogden Nash coughs up the cash Freedonia's going to war! Halvard Johnson wrote: > I'd love to take your word for it, Tad, but first kindly > show that the two of them never referenced Shakespeare > and/or Nash. > > Hal > > "Imagination is more important > than knowledge." > --Albert Einstein > > Halvard Johnson > ================ > halvard at earthlink.net > http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > http://www.hamiltonstone.org > http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html > > > On Jan 3, 2008, at 1:14 PM, TheOldMole wrote: > >> They certainly both should have reference Anny. But the answer lies >> elsewhere. It's mad Nijinksy, about shom Auden tells us that what he >> wrote about Diaghilev is true of the human heart. and who appears on >> the epidermis of Lydia the tattooed lady doing the rhumba, right >> next to Lydia's Social Security numba. Sung by Groucho, written by >> Harold Arlen and E. Y. Harburg. >> >> For reasons obscure to me now, I was once invited to Yip Harburg's >> Christmas party, which involved singing carols around the piano, with >> Yip, octogenarian but still lively, at the piano. Among the guests >> was Paul Robeson Jr., who looked very much like his father, had a >> deep baritone voice...and couldn't carry a tune in a bucket. >> >> >> >> Anny Ballardini wrote: >>> _me_ >>> ! >>> >>> From: "Halvard Johnson" >>> Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2008 7:18 PM >>> >>> >>>> Best guess: Shakespeare >>>> Second-best guess: Ogden Nash >>>> >>>> Hal >>>> >>>> "In America, it's the bottom of the ninth, >>>> we're five runs behind, there are two outs, >>>> nobody on base, weak hitter at the plate, >>>> and the fat lady's getting up to sing." >>>> --Anon. >>>> >>>> Halvard Johnson >>>> ================ >>>> halvard at earthlink.net >>>> http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html >>>> http://entropyandme.blogspot.com >>>> http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com >>>> http://www.hamiltonstone.org >>>> http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Jan 1, 2008, at 3:42 PM, TheOldMole wrote: >>>> >>>>> Who is referenced by both Auden and Groucho Marx? >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Tad Richards >>>>> http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ >>>>> http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ >>>>> >>>>> The moral is this: in American verse, >>>>> The better you are, the pay is worse. >>>>> --Corey Ford >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> New-Poetry mailing list >>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>> >> >> -- >> Tad Richards >> http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ >> http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ >> >> The moral is this: in American verse, >> The better you are, the pay is worse. >> --Corey Ford >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ The moral is this: in American verse, The better you are, the pay is worse. --Corey Ford From Opus40-01 Thu Jan 3 16:48:04 2008 From: Opus40-01 (TheOldMole) Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2008 16:48:04 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] a question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <477D5814.5090700@opus40.org> Dickens had great male character names. Mr. Gradgrind, Mr. Pickwick, Mr. Micawber. Female name: Cosette is hard to beat. So I'll go in a different direction, with Cruella de Ville. jfq at myuw.net wrote: > Roskolnikov always resonated with me for some reason, so i'd say that > for the male name. > > for a female name, I always liked "Brett" (bret? it's been a while) > from the sun also rises. > > > On Thu, 3 Jan 2008, Anny Ballardini wrote: > >> Which is the name in literature you liked most (male and female)? >> >> >> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> >> Anny Ballardini >> http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ >> http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome >> http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html >> I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a >> dancing star! >> Friedrich Nietzsche >> > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ The moral is this: in American verse, The better you are, the pay is worse. --Corey Ford From anny.ballardini Thu Jan 3 17:42:06 2008 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 23:42:06 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] a question References: <477D5814.5090700@opus40.org> Message-ID: <014001c84e59$de7fc330$92ac3452@ANNY> I liked Nausicaa and for men maybe Fr?d?ric but probably because of early French literature, see what I found here: http://ark.cdlib.org/ark:/13030/ft8k4008jd/ ----- Original Message ----- From: "TheOldMole" To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views" Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2008 10:48 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] a question > Dickens had great male character names. Mr. Gradgrind, Mr. Pickwick, Mr. > Micawber. > > Female name: Cosette is hard to beat. So I'll go in a different direction, > with Cruella de Ville. > > jfq at myuw.net wrote: >> Roskolnikov always resonated with me for some reason, so i'd say that for >> the male name. >> >> for a female name, I always liked "Brett" (bret? it's been a while) from >> the sun also rises. >> >> >> On Thu, 3 Jan 2008, Anny Ballardini wrote: >> >>> Which is the name in literature you liked most (male and female)? >>> >>> >>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> >>> >>> Anny Ballardini >>> http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ >>> http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome >>> http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html >>> I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing >>> star! >>> Friedrich Nietzsche > > -- > Tad Richards > http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ > http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ > > The moral is this: in American verse, > The better you are, the pay is worse. > --Corey Ford > From cervantes.james Thu Jan 3 17:53:27 2008 From: cervantes.james (James Cervantes) Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 15:53:27 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Lyn Lyfshin in the digital age Message-ID: <648208b60801031453t7f209f6ao9d9d215d1ec96d4a@mail.gmail.com> Once one electronic submission is rejected, another arrives to take its place. She must be using some sort of robot because the new submission arrives in the blink of an eye and should not be mistaken for a robot e-mail response to one's reply to the previous submission. I'm tempted to do an immediate rejection to an immediate replacement and keep doing it doing it doing it until the damn things breaks. -- Jim caveat: I *have* published her ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~ Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org ~ http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning ~ http://www.fieralingue.it/documenti/mr_bondo.pdf ~ http://www.poetserv.org/jvc/home/index.html ~ http://home.earthlink.net/~jvcervantes/ ~ http://www.flickr.com/photos/12364573 at N08/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chris.lott Thu Jan 3 17:58:15 2008 From: chris.lott (Chris Lott) Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 13:58:15 -0900 Subject: [New-Poetry] a question In-Reply-To: <014001c84e59$de7fc330$92ac3452@ANNY> References: <477D5814.5090700@opus40.org> <014001c84e59$de7fc330$92ac3452@ANNY> Message-ID: <9b1b9dab0801031458n5136bff0i800f25fe6c82f30f@mail.gmail.com> I'm fond of Hiro Protagonist, Mr. Cogito, Mucker Maffick, and Avril Incandenza c From jfq Thu Jan 3 18:07:24 2008 From: jfq (jfq at myuw.net) Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 15:07:24 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] a question In-Reply-To: <9b1b9dab0801031458n5136bff0i800f25fe6c82f30f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Avril Incandenza is a great name! as are Michael Pemulis and Ortho "The Darkness" Stice On Thu, 3 Jan 2008, Chris Lott wrote: > I'm fond of Hiro Protagonist, Mr. Cogito, Mucker Maffick, and Avril Incandenza > > c > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > From halvard Thu Jan 3 18:12:15 2008 From: halvard (Halvard Johnson) Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 17:12:15 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] a question In-Reply-To: <010801c84e4c$8d66e170$92ac3452@ANNY> References: <010801c84e4c$8d66e170$92ac3452@ANNY> Message-ID: <760B78FD-A1E6-4106-A1B5-E5C1A00448D3@earthlink.net> Female: Lynda La Plante or Lynda Schor Male: Halvard Solness Hal "An idea that is not dangerous is unworthy of being called an idea at all." --Oscar Wilde Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html On Jan 3, 2008, at 3:06 PM, Anny Ballardini wrote: > Which is the name in literature you liked most (male and female)? > > Anny Ballardini > http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ > http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome > http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html > I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a > dancing star! > Friedrich Nietzsche > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini Thu Jan 3 18:14:30 2008 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2008 00:14:30 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Lyn Lyfshin in the digital age References: <648208b60801031453t7f209f6ao9d9d215d1ec96d4a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <016a01c84e5e$65153480$92ac3452@ANNY> Jim on the verge of neurosis... I can recognize the symptoms From: James Cervantes Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2008 11:53 PM Once one electronic submission is rejected, another arrives to take its place. She must be using some sort of robot because the new submission arrives in the blink of an eye and should not be mistaken for a robot e-mail response to one's reply to the previous submission. I'm tempted to do an immediate rejection to an immediate replacement and keep doing it doing it doing it until the damn things breaks. -- Jim caveat: I *have* published her ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~ Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org ~ http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning ~ http://www.fieralingue.it/documenti/mr_bondo.pdf ~ http://www.poetserv.org/jvc/home/index.html ~ http://home.earthlink.net/~jvcervantes/ ~ http://www.flickr.com/photos/12364573 at N08/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cervantes.james Thu Jan 3 18:14:57 2008 From: cervantes.james (James Cervantes) Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 16:14:57 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] a question In-Reply-To: <9b1b9dab0801031458n5136bff0i800f25fe6c82f30f@mail.gmail.com> References: <477D5814.5090700@opus40.org> <014001c84e59$de7fc330$92ac3452@ANNY> <9b1b9dab0801031458n5136bff0i800f25fe6c82f30f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <648208b60801031514rd88473l7a72d36932064e3@mail.gmail.com> On 1/3/08, Chris Lott wrote: > > I'm fond of Hiro Protagonist, Mr. Cogito, Mucker Maffick, and Avril > Incandenza I'll vote for Mr. Bondo (no first name). -- Jim ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~ Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org ~ http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning ~ http://www.fieralingue.it/documenti/mr_bondo.pdf ~ http://www.poetserv.org/jvc/home/index.html ~ http://home.earthlink.net/~jvcervantes/ ~ http://www.flickr.com/photos/12364573 at N08/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From millb Thu Jan 3 18:28:59 2008 From: millb (millb at aol.com) Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2008 18:28:59 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] a question In-Reply-To: <014001c84e59$de7fc330$92ac3452@ANNY> References: <477D5814.5090700@opus40.org> <014001c84e59$de7fc330$92ac3452@ANNY> Message-ID: <8CA1C778D694FAE-FB8-1565@webmail-da10.sysops.aol.com> Male:?? Ignacius J. (Jacques) Reilly (Confederacy of Dunces) Female:? Tralala (Last Exit to Brooklyn) -----Original Message----- From: Anny Ballardini Bcc: millb at aol.com Sent: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 2:42 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] a question I liked Nausicaa? ? and for men maybe Fr?d?ric but probably because of early French literature, see what I found here:? http://ark.cdlib.org/ark:/13030/ft8k4008jd/? ? ----- Original Message ----- From: "TheOldMole" ? To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views" ? Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2008 10:48 PM? Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] a question? ? > Dickens had great male character names. Mr. Gradgrind, Mr. Pickwick, Mr. > Micawber.? >? > Female name: Cosette is hard to beat. So I'll go in a different direction, > with Cruella de Ville.? >? > jfq at myuw.net wrote:? >> Roskolnikov always resonated with me for some reason, so i'd say that for >> the male name.? >>? >> for a female name, I always liked "Brett" (bret? it's been a while) from >> the sun also rises.? >>? >>? >> On Thu, 3 Jan 2008, Anny Ballardini wrote:? >>? >>> Which is the name in literature you liked most (male and female)?? >>>? >>>? >>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------? >>>? >>>? >>> Anny Ballardini? >>> http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/? >>> http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome? >>> http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html? >>> I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing >>> star!? >>> Friedrich Nietzsche? >? > -- > Tad Richards? > http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/? > http://opusforty.blogspot.com/? >? > The moral is this: in American verse,? > The better you are, the pay is worse.? > --Corey Ford? >? ? _______________________________________________? New-Poetry mailing list? New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu? http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry? ________________________________________________________________________ More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://webmail.aol.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cstroffo Thu Jan 3 18:47:35 2008 From: cstroffo (Chris Stroffolino) Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 15:47:35 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] Well put: Bill Berkson In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <9CE16B5F-C82F-4088-B74B-D72D9626A417@earthlink.net> Thanks for posting this.... I wonder if you substitute any other arts for "painting" if the statements would still work... Chris On Jan 1, 2008, at 1:26 PM, JforJames at aol.com wrote: > Both painting and poetry occupy fictive spaces in the physical > world. But, then again, it may be because poetry and painting are > more incomparable to one another than to the other arts that their > affinity is sealed. [14] > -- > > You can do a lot with educated eyes. What I mean by ?educated? is > simply how pictures, among other things, can teach you about how to > see, and what?s visible when you look hard enough or most openly. > At a certain point, past the shock of seeing, you want to do > something about it. That?s what makes an artist begin being an > artist in the first place. At one time or another you get hit like > with a rock. I have a theory that the course of anyone?s artistic > life is determined largely by the attempt to retrieve that original > rock, or what the painters used to call The Dream. [14] > -- > > There is an ?everything? principle?the universal ?everything? > principle?that poetry and painting share. It has to do with > including. Fairfield Porter says, ?There is an elementary principle > of organization in any art that nothing gets in anything else?s way > and everything is at its own limit of possibilities.? [15] > -- > > Wonderfully, there is no logic why poetry and painting should meet > at all. It is not poetry dressing up to be ?like? painting or > painting being pro- or anti-literary. Those comparisons are really > speechless. I sometimes feel called upon to write a whole other > lecture entitled ?Why I Am Not A Painterly Poet.? The real > connections lie elsewhere, with materials which criticism is ever > hard put to recognize, because criticism most often doesn?t, as art > will, talk about everything all at one. [23] > > ?Bill Berskon, ?Poetry and Painting,? Sudden Address, Cuneiform > Press 2007 > > -- > Kenneth [Koch] was, and continues to be, central to my education. > His conception of poetry as a form of nearly materialized, physical > excitement made me see not just poetry but the world in and outside > poetry differently. Not only did he encourage me in my writing but > without proselytizing he revealed how being a poet could be a > sensible pursuit?sensible in every respect?for a grown person. [94-95] > -- > If poetry and art have any assignment it is to make up the universe > each time from scratch, hoping to uncover some plausibly > declarative thread with enough connective tissue and shine to put > it across. > -- > ?We poets know nothing,? sang ancient Hesiod, ?only what the muses > tell us.? Modernity?s default muses have been private sensibility, > abstract forms, and general culture made manifest as what we now > call ?media.? [102] > > ?Bill Berskon, ??The Uneven Phenomenon??What Did You Expect?,? > Sudden Address, Cuneiform Press 2007 > > > > See AOL's top rated recipes and easy ways to stay in shape for winter. > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mandolin Thu Jan 3 19:07:02 2008 From: mandolin (Michael Snider) Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 19:07:02 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] a question In-Reply-To: <010801c84e4c$8d66e170$92ac3452@ANNY> References: <010801c84e4c$8d66e170$92ac3452@ANNY> Message-ID: <7CA2489F-91E5-4CFA-83C7-2FF47986AE3C@mac.com> Travis McGee's friend Meyer for the male Miranda for the female Weird how hard it was to decide! On Jan 3, 2008, at 4:06 PM, Anny Ballardini wrote: > Which is the name in literature you liked most (male and female)? > > Anny Ballardini > http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ > http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome > http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html > I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a > dancing star! > Friedrich Nietzsche > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From barry.spacks Thu Jan 3 19:17:12 2008 From: barry.spacks (Barry Spacks) Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2008 16:17:12 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Guessing Game In-Reply-To: <200801032226.m03MQb2f009890@wiz.cath.vt.edu> References: <200801032226.m03MQb2f009890@wiz.cath.vt.edu> Message-ID: <15A7D26E-A79F-46E6-A416-E4DAE0E84B5E@verizon.net> On Jan 3, 2008, at 2:26 PM, Ol' Mole wrote: >> >>> Who is referenced by both Auden and Groucho Marx? TSE? From millb Thu Jan 3 19:31:39 2008 From: millb (millb at aol.com) Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2008 19:31:39 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Guessing Game In-Reply-To: <15A7D26E-A79F-46E6-A416-E4DAE0E84B5E@verizon.net> References: <200801032226.m03MQb2f009890@wiz.cath.vt.edu> <15A7D26E-A79F-46E6-A416-E4DAE0E84B5E@verizon.net> Message-ID: <8CA1C804E548358-13FC-7BE@webmail-mf02.sysops.aol.com> How's this for a guess? Vaslav Nijinsky In Marx's Lydia the Tattooed Lady and Auden's "Sept 1 1939" -----Original Message----- From: Barry Spacks To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 4:17 pm Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Guessing Game On Jan 3, 2008, at 2:26 PM, Ol' Mole wrote:? >>? >>> Who is referenced by both Auden and Groucho Marx?? ? ? TSE?? ? _______________________________________________? New-Poetry mailing list? New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu? http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry? ________________________________________________________________________ More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://webmail.aol.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Rsgwynn1 Thu Jan 3 19:34:13 2008 From: Rsgwynn1 (Rsgwynn1 at cs.com) Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 19:34:13 EST Subject: [New-Poetry] a question Message-ID: In a message dated 1/3/2008 3:48:24 PM Central Standard Time, Opus40-01 at opus40.org writes: > > Dickens had great male character names. Mr. Gradgrind, Mr. Pickwick, Mr. > Micawber. Flannery O'Connor. Just about any of her names. Hazel Mopes. Manley Pointer. Enoch Emery. Hulga Hopewell. Ruby Turpin. Mr. Shiftlet. Etc. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Opus40-01 Thu Jan 3 19:51:40 2008 From: Opus40-01 (TheOldMole) Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2008 19:51:40 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] a question In-Reply-To: <7CA2489F-91E5-4CFA-83C7-2FF47986AE3C@mac.com> References: <010801c84e4c$8d66e170$92ac3452@ANNY> <7CA2489F-91E5-4CFA-83C7-2FF47986AE3C@mac.com> Message-ID: <477D831C.9000804@opus40.org> Mardou Fox (The Subterraneans) Michael Snider wrote: > Travis McGee's friend Meyer for the male > > Miranda for the female > > > Weird how hard it was to decide! > > On Jan 3, 2008, at 4:06 PM, Anny Ballardini wrote: > >> Which is the name in literature you liked most (male and female)? >> >> Anny Ballardini >> http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ >> http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome >> http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html >> I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a >> dancing star! >> Friedrich Nietzsche >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ The moral is this: in American verse, The better you are, the pay is worse. --Corey Ford From Opus40-01 Thu Jan 3 19:56:20 2008 From: Opus40-01 (TheOldMole) Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2008 19:56:20 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Guessing Game In-Reply-To: <8CA1C804E548358-13FC-7BE@webmail-mf02.sysops.aol.com> References: <200801032226.m03MQb2f009890@wiz.cath.vt.edu> <15A7D26E-A79F-46E6-A416-E4DAE0E84B5E@verizon.net> <8CA1C804E548358-13FC-7BE@webmail-mf02.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <477D8434.8080507@opus40.org> That's it! millb at aol.com wrote: > How's this for a guess? > > Vaslav Nijinsky > > In Marx's Lydia the Tattooed Lady and Auden's "Sept 1 1939" > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Barry Spacks > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Sent: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 4:17 pm > Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Guessing Game > > On Jan 3, 2008, at 2:26 PM, Ol' Mole wrote: > >> > >>> Who is referenced by both Auden and Groucho Marx? > > TSE? > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail > ! > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ The moral is this: in American verse, The better you are, the pay is worse. --Corey Ford From millb Thu Jan 3 20:04:05 2008 From: millb (millb at aol.com) Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2008 20:04:05 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Guessing Game In-Reply-To: <477D8434.8080507@opus40.org> References: <200801032226.m03MQb2f009890@wiz.cath.vt.edu> <15A7D26E-A79F-46E6-A416-E4DAE0E84B5E@verizon.net> <8CA1C804E548358-13FC-7BE@webmail-mf02.sysops.aol.com> <477D8434.8080507@opus40.org> Message-ID: <8CA1C84D663251E-13FC-91D@webmail-mf02.sysops.aol.com> :) -----Original Message----- From: TheOldMole Bcc: millb at aol.com Sent: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 4:56 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Re: Guessing Game That's it!? ? millb at aol.com wrote:? > How's this for a guess?? >? > Vaslav Nijinsky? >? > In Marx's Lydia the Tattooed Lady and Auden's "Sept 1 1939"? >? >? > -----Original Message-----? > From: Barry Spacks ? > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu? > Sent: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 4:17 pm? > Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Guessing Game? >? > On Jan 3, 2008, at 2:26 PM, Ol' Mole wrote: > >> > >>> Who is referenced by both Auden and Groucho Marx? > > TSE? > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > ------------------------------------------------------------------------? > More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail > !? > ------------------------------------------------------------------------? >? > _______________________________________________? > New-Poetry mailing list? > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu? > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry? > ? -- Tad Richards? http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/? http://opusforty.blogspot.com/? ? The moral is this: in American verse,? The better you are, the pay is worse.? ?--Corey Ford? ? _______________________________________________? New-Poetry mailing list? New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu? http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry? ________________________________________________________________________ More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://webmail.aol.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From millb Thu Jan 3 20:13:04 2008 From: millb (millb at aol.com) Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2008 20:13:04 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Guessing Game--further details In-Reply-To: <477D8434.8080507@opus40.org> References: <200801032226.m03MQb2f009890@wiz.cath.vt.edu> <15A7D26E-A79F-46E6-A416-E4DAE0E84B5E@verizon.net> <8CA1C804E548358-13FC-7BE@webmail-mf02.sysops.aol.com> <477D8434.8080507@opus40.org> Message-ID: <8CA1C86174399D4-13FC-96A@webmail-mf02.sysops.aol.com> September 1, 1939 ? by W. H. Auden I sit in one of the dives On Fifty-second Street Uncertain and afraid As the clever hopes expire Of a low dishonest decade: Waves of anger and fear Circulate over the bright And darkened lands of the earth, Obsessing our private lives; The unmentionable odour of death Offends the September night. Accurate scholarship can Unearth the whole offence >From Luther until now That has driven a culture mad, Find what occurred at Linz, What huge imago made A psychopathic god: I and the public know What all schoolchildren learn, Those to whom evil is done Do evil in return. Exiled Thucydides knew All that a speech can say About Democracy, And what dictators do, The elderly rubbish they talk To an apathetic grave; Analysed all in his book, The enlightenment driven away, The habit-forming pain, Mismanagement and grief: We must suffer them all again. Into this neutral air Where blind skyscrapers use Their full height to proclaim The strength of Collective Man, Each language pours its vain Competitive excuse: But who can live for long In an euphoric dream; Out of the mirror they stare, Imperialism's face And the international wrong. Faces along the bar Cling to their average day: The lights must never go out, The music must always play, All the conventions conspire To make this fort assume The furniture of home; Lest we should see where we are, Lost in a haunted wood, Children afraid of the night Who have never been happy or good. The windiest militant trash Important Persons shout Is not so crude as our wish: What mad Nijinsky wrote About Diaghilev Is true of the normal heart; For the error bred in the bone Of each woman and each man Craves what it cannot have, Not universal love But to be loved alone. >From the conservative dark Into the ethical life The dense commuters come, Repeating their morning vow; "I will be true to the wife, I'll concentrate more on my work," And helpless governors wake To resume their compulsory game: Who can release them now, Who can reach the deaf, Who can speak for the dumb? All I have is a voice To undo the folded lie, The romantic lie in the brain Of the sensual man-in-the-street And the lie of Authority Whose buildings grope the sky: There is no such thing as the State And no one exists alone; Hunger allows no choice To the citizen or the police; We must love one another or die. Defenceless under the night Our world in stupor lies; Yet, dotted everywhere, Ironic points of light Flash out wherever the Just Exchange their messages: May I, composed like them Of Eros and of dust, Beleaguered by the same Negation and despair, Show an affirming flame. >From Another Time by W. H. Auden, published by Random House. Copyright ? 1940 W. H. Auden, renewed by The Estate of W. H. Auden. Used by permission of Curtis Brown, Ltd. Lyrics to "Lydia, the Tattooed Lady" Music by Harold Arlen and Lyrics by E.Y. Harburg Hear a clip of Virginia Weidler singing this song (a 267KB .WAV file). ? Oh Lydia, oh Lydia, say, have you met Lydia? Lydia The Tattooed Lady. She has eyes that folks adore so, and a torso even more so. Lydia, oh Lydia, that encyclo-pidia. Oh Lydia The Queen of Tattoo. On her back is The Battle of Waterloo. Beside it, The Wreck of the Hesperus too. And proudly above waves the red, white, and blue. You can learn a lot from Lydia!? La-la-la...la-la-la. La-la-la...la-la-la.? When her robe is unfurled she will show you the world, if you step up and tell her where. For a dime you can see Kankakee or Paree, or Washington crossing The Delaware.? La-la-la...la-la-la. La-la-la...la-la-la.? Oh Lydia, oh Lydia, say, have you met Lydia? Lydia The Tattooed Lady. When her muscles start relaxin', up the hill comes Andrew Jackson. Lydia, oh Lydia, that encyclo-pidia. Oh Lydia The Queen of them all. For two bits she will do a mazurka in jazz, with a view of Niagara that nobody has. And on a clear day you can see Alcatraz. You can learn a lot from Lydia!? La-la-la...la-la-la. La-la-la...la-la-la.? Come along and see Buffalo Bill with his lasso. Just a little classic by Mendel Picasso. Here is Captain Spaulding exploring the Amazon. Here's Godiva, but with her pajamas on.? La-la-la...la-la-la. La-la-la...la-la-la.? Here is Grover Whelan unveilin' The Trilon. Over on the west coast we have Treasure Isle-on. Here's Nijinsky a-doin' the rhumba. Here's her social security numba.? La-la-la...la-la-la. La-la-la...la-la-la.? Lydia, oh Lydia, that encyclo-pidia. Oh Lydia The Champ of them all. She once swept an Admiral clear off his feet. The ships on her hips made his heart skip a beat. And now the old boy's in command of the fleet, for he went and married Lydia!? I said Lydia... (He said Lydia...) They said Lydia... We said Lydia, la, la! -----Original Message----- From: TheOldMole Bcc: millb at aol.com Sent: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 4:56 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Re: Guessing Game That's it!? ? millb at aol.com wrote:? > How's this for a guess?? >? > Vaslav Nijinsky? >? > In Marx's Lydia the Tattooed Lady and Auden's "Sept 1 1939"? >? >? > -----Original Message-----? > From: Barry Spacks ? > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu? > Sent: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 4:17 pm? > Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Guessing Game? >? > On Jan 3, 2008, at 2:26 PM, Ol' Mole wrote: > >> > >>> Who is referenced by both Auden and Groucho Marx? > > TSE? > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > ------------------------------------------------------------------------? > More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail > !? > ------------------------------------------------------------------------? >? > _______________________________________________? > New-Poetry mailing list? > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu? > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry? > ? -- Tad Richards? http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/? http://opusforty.blogspot.com/? ? The moral is this: in American verse,? The better you are, the pay is worse.? ?--Corey Ford? ? _______________________________________________? New-Poetry mailing list? New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu? http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry? ________________________________________________________________________ More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://webmail.aol.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Opus40-01 Thu Jan 3 20:20:58 2008 From: Opus40-01 (TheOldMole) Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2008 20:20:58 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Mole Update Message-ID: <477D89FA.9090005@opus40.org> Episode 14 of Situations brings Book One to close, but not before posing the following questions: How can the Major be saved from the evil clutches of Trisha? Will Stephen Hawking ever live up to Mary Jo's expectations? Who is a suitable sex partner for Julia? And finally, what is the future of sex? Find out all at http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=2149 A new Film Noir at the blog: Part One of The Set-Up. http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ You won't want to miss any of it. At least, I don't think so. -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ The moral is this: in American verse, The better you are, the pay is worse. --Corey Ford From bobgrumman Thu Jan 3 20:58:13 2008 From: bobgrumman (Bob Grumman) Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2008 20:58:13 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] a question In-Reply-To: <7CA2489F-91E5-4CFA-83C7-2FF47986AE3C@mac.com> References: <010801c84e4c$8d66e170$92ac3452@ANNY> <7CA2489F-91E5-4CFA-83C7-2FF47986AE3C@mac.com> Message-ID: <477D92B5.5050908@nut-n-but.net> Too many possibilities, all good in one way or another--and there's no way I can bring them all to mind. But I always liked "James Bond" for a male. On the other hand, who could be better named than Sherlock Holmes!? Viola is a nice name for a female. Next game: the worst names for fictional characters. Any of Henry James's males, I should think. When someone mentioned Hemingway's Bret or Brett (seconded by another), I grimaced--that's close enough to the worst name I've heard for a female character, except some of the horribly sentimental ones I've now forgotten. --Bob Michael Snider wrote: > Travis McGee's friend Meyer for the male > > Miranda for the female > > > Weird how hard it was to decide! > > On Jan 3, 2008, at 4:06 PM, Anny Ballardini wrote: > >> Which is the name in literature you liked most (male and female)? >> >> Anny Ballardini >> http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ >> http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome >> http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html >> I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a >> dancing star! >> Friedrich Nietzsche >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > From jeff.newberry Thu Jan 3 21:22:56 2008 From: jeff.newberry (Jeff Newberry) Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 21:22:56 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] a question In-Reply-To: <477D92B5.5050908@nut-n-but.net> References: <010801c84e4c$8d66e170$92ac3452@ANNY> <7CA2489F-91E5-4CFA-83C7-2FF47986AE3C@mac.com> <477D92B5.5050908@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <731bb17a0801031822h50c2726bnc0241ea8f3eaa474@mail.gmail.com> Please, Bob, do tell. How exactly is Bret a horrible name? Does it seem contrived? What's the issue? Jeff Newberry On Jan 3, 2008 8:58 PM, Bob Grumman wrote: > Too many possibilities, all good in one way or another--and there's no > way I can bring them all to mind. But I always liked "James Bond" for a > male. On the other hand, who could be better named than Sherlock > Holmes!? Viola is a nice name for a female. > > Next game: the worst names for fictional characters. Any of Henry > James's males, I should think. When someone mentioned Hemingway's Bret > or Brett (seconded by another), I grimaced--that's close enough to the > worst name I've heard for a female character, except some of the > horribly sentimental ones I've now forgotten. > > --Bob > > Michael Snider wrote: > > Travis McGee's friend Meyer for the male > > > > Miranda for the female > > > > > > Weird how hard it was to decide! > > > > On Jan 3, 2008, at 4:06 PM, Anny Ballardini wrote: > > > >> Which is the name in literature you liked most (male and female)? > >> > >> Anny Ballardini > >> http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ > >> http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome > >> http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html > >> I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a > >> dancing star! > >> Friedrich Nietzsche > >> _______________________________________________ > >> New-Poetry mailing list > >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- "Memory believes before knowing remembers. Believes longer than recollects, longer than knowing even wonders." ?William Faulkner, Light in August http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Opus40-01 Thu Jan 3 22:56:55 2008 From: Opus40-01 (TheOldMole) Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2008 22:56:55 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] a question In-Reply-To: <731bb17a0801031822h50c2726bnc0241ea8f3eaa474@mail.gmail.com> References: <010801c84e4c$8d66e170$92ac3452@ANNY> <7CA2489F-91E5-4CFA-83C7-2FF47986AE3C@mac.com> <477D92B5.5050908@nut-n-but.net> <731bb17a0801031822h50c2726bnc0241ea8f3eaa474@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <477DAE87.6030401@opus40.org> Well, it's Brett. I know because I just used her as a character in my novel. Jeff Newberry wrote: > Please, Bob, do tell. How exactly is Bret a horrible name? Does it > seem contrived? What's the issue? > > Jeff Newberry > > On Jan 3, 2008 8:58 PM, Bob Grumman < bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net > > wrote: > > Too many possibilities, all good in one way or another--and > there's no > way I can bring them all to mind. But I always liked "James Bond" > for a > male. On the other hand, who could be better named than Sherlock > Holmes!? Viola is a nice name for a female. > > Next game: the worst names for fictional characters. Any of Henry > James's males, I should think. When someone mentioned Hemingway's > Bret > or Brett (seconded by another), I grimaced--that's close enough to the > worst name I've heard for a female character, except some of the > horribly sentimental ones I've now forgotten. > > --Bob > > Michael Snider wrote: > > Travis McGee's friend Meyer for the male > > > > Miranda for the female > > > > > > Weird how hard it was to decide! > > > > On Jan 3, 2008, at 4:06 PM, Anny Ballardini wrote: > > > >> Which is the name in literature you liked most (male and female)? > >> > >> Anny Ballardini > >> http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ > >> http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome > >> http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html > >> I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a > >> dancing star! > >> Friedrich Nietzsche > >> _______________________________________________ > >> New-Poetry mailing list > >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > -- > "Memory believes before knowing remembers. Believes longer than > recollects, longer than knowing even wonders." > ?William Faulkner, Light in August > > > http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ The moral is this: in American verse, The better you are, the pay is worse. --Corey Ford From chris.lott Fri Jan 4 00:30:45 2008 From: chris.lott (Chris Lott) Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 20:30:45 -0900 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Guessing Game In-Reply-To: <477D8434.8080507@opus40.org> References: <200801032226.m03MQb2f009890@wiz.cath.vt.edu> <15A7D26E-A79F-46E6-A416-E4DAE0E84B5E@verizon.net> <8CA1C804E548358-13FC-7BE@webmail-mf02.sysops.aol.com> <477D8434.8080507@opus40.org> Message-ID: <9b1b9dab0801032130l6979b709jeae19d710b92e84a@mail.gmail.com> OK-- well can you believe that Nijinsky and Auden both have a Bacon Number of 3? Groucho is 2, but that's to be expected I guess :) On Jan 3, 2008 3:56 PM, TheOldMole wrote: > That's it! > > millb at aol.com wrote: > > How's this for a guess? > > > > Vaslav Nijinsky > > > > In Marx's Lydia the Tattooed Lady and Auden's "Sept 1 1939" From editor Fri Jan 4 00:35:16 2008 From: editor (David Baratier) Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 21:35:16 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: a question In-Reply-To: <200801032226.m03MQb2f009890@wiz.cath.vt.edu> Message-ID: <331778.52773.qm@web45609.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Basil, Beowulf, Thor Beatrix, Clymestra, Villette Be well David Baratier, Editor Pavement Saw Press 321 Empire Street Montpelier OH 43543 http://pavementsaw.org Subscribe to our e-mail listserv at http://pavementsaw.org/list/?p=subscribe&id=1 --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman Fri Jan 4 07:01:08 2008 From: bobgrumman (Bob Grumman) Date: Fri, 04 Jan 2008 07:01:08 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] a question In-Reply-To: <731bb17a0801031822h50c2726bnc0241ea8f3eaa474@mail.gmail.com> References: <010801c84e4c$8d66e170$92ac3452@ANNY><7CA2489F-91E5-4CFA-83C7-2FF47986AE3C@mac.com><477D92B5.5050908@nut-n-but.net> <731bb17a0801031822h50c2726bnc0241ea8f3eaa474@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <477E2004.1020400@nut-n-but.net> Jeff Newberry wrote: > Please, Bob, do tell. How exactly is Bret a horrible name? Does it > seem contrived? What's the issue? > > Jeff Newberry > Jeff, I never had my consciousness raised, so I think boys and girls are innately different. Bret Harte was not a woman. I don't like harsh names for women, even ones that are traditionally for females like "Betty." I also don't generally like last names as first names, as this seems to be. Finally, I like traditional names because they have a history and are easier to remember. --Bob From jeff.newberry Fri Jan 4 08:42:44 2008 From: jeff.newberry (Jeff Newberry) Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2008 08:42:44 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] a question In-Reply-To: <477E2004.1020400@nut-n-but.net> References: <010801c84e4c$8d66e170$92ac3452@ANNY> <7CA2489F-91E5-4CFA-83C7-2FF47986AE3C@mac.com> <477D92B5.5050908@nut-n-but.net> <731bb17a0801031822h50c2726bnc0241ea8f3eaa474@mail.gmail.com> <477E2004.1020400@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <731bb17a0801040542p1d463c7dje00839de2ee59f08@mail.gmail.com> Oh, okay. Thanks for clearing that up. Best, Jeff On Jan 4, 2008 7:01 AM, Bob Grumman wrote: > > > Jeff Newberry wrote: > > Please, Bob, do tell. How exactly is Bret a horrible name? Does it > > seem contrived? What's the issue? > > > > Jeff Newberry > > > Jeff, I never had my consciousness raised, so I think boys and girls are > innately different. Bret Harte was not a woman. I don't like harsh > names for women, even ones that are traditionally for females like > "Betty." I also don't generally like last names as first names, as this > seems to be. Finally, I like traditional names because they have a > history and are easier to remember. > > --Bob > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- "Memory believes before knowing remembers. Believes longer than recollects, longer than knowing even wonders." ?William Faulkner, Light in August http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From editor Fri Jan 4 10:18:35 2008 From: editor (=?iso-8859-1?Q?e=B7ratio?=) Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2008 10:18:35 -0500 (EST) Subject: [New-Poetry] a noun sing =?iso-8859-1?q?e=B7ratio_10?= Message-ID: <60695.72.227.128.250.1199459915.squirrel@webmail.web.com> a noun sing e?ratio 10 http://www.eratiopostmodernpoetry.com edited by gregory vincent st. thomasino http://eratio.blogspot.com From bobgrumman Fri Jan 4 17:33:01 2008 From: bobgrumman (Bob Grumman) Date: Fri, 04 Jan 2008 17:33:01 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] a question In-Reply-To: <731bb17a0801040542p1d463c7dje00839de2ee59f08@mail.gmail.com> References: <010801c84e4c$8d66e170$92ac3452@ANNY><7CA2489F-91E5-4CFA-83C7-2FF47986AE3C@mac.com><477D92B5.5050908@nut-n-but.net><7 31bb17a0801031822h50c2726bnc0241ea8f3eaa474@mail.gmail.com><477E2004.1020400@nut-n-but.net> <731bb17a0801040542p1d463c7dje00839de2ee59f08@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <477EB41D.7030006@nut-n-but.net> Jeff Newberry wrote: > Oh, okay. Thanks for clearing that up. > > Best, > > Jeff Thank YOU for giving me a chance to, Jeff! And for helping me think enough more about girls' names to come up with a really great one: "But." Short for "Buttercup." By the way, did you get a chance to visit my website and read what I said about your blog in the latest issue of Small Press Review? I mentioned the blogs of several New-Poetry people including our honorable leader. Can't remember what I said except that it was mostly favorable. --Bob From jforjames Fri Jan 4 17:37:25 2008 From: jforjames (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Fri, 04 Jan 2008 17:37:25 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: SOLD OUT! AWP 2008 Conference & Bookfair in NYC In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8CA1D398392860E-644-2673@webmail-dd04.sysops.aol.com> -----Original Message----- From: AWP Conference To: jforjames at aol.com Sent: Fri, 4 Jan 2008 12:46 pm Subject: SOLD OUT! AWP 2008 Conference & Bookfair in NYC Dear AWP Friend: AWP?s 2008 Conference & Bookfair in New York is sold out. No more passes ill be sold. There will be no on-site registration available at the onference-site hotels. Only pre-registered individuals possessing a registration badge will be dmitted into the conference events and the bookfair. 7,500 people will be attending this year?s conference, making it the largest onference in AWP?s history, and one of North America?s best-attended iterary events. We are sorry to disappoint you if you have not yet registered. Next year?s onference will be in Chicago, Illinois, February 11-14, 2009. The deadline or proposing events for next year?s conference is May 1, 2008, and we will egin accepting proposals on February 1, 2008. Please see our website for ore information. If you are already registered for the conference, please be advised that any events will be crowded. Please plan to arrive early for those events hat are most important to you. With more than 300 events, 500 exhibitors, and 7,500 attendees, AWP?s onference and bookfair has never involved more of its members or more of he book-loving public. In academic circles, for decades now, the fate of 'the public intellectual'' has been a frequent issue of debate. The riter's place is in the public square; and happily, we have succeeded in uilding the meeting place of artistic enterprise and public enjoyment, a eeting place of town and gown. We are delighted that so many of you have chosen to help us celebrate AWP?s 0th Anniversary in New York City. This unprecedented, record-breaking onference will be a fine way for us to commemorate AWP?s four decades of ervice to writers, teachers, and the reading public. Thank you for your support. Happy New Year, David Fenza xecutive Director he Association of Writers & Writing Programs ________________________________________________________________________ More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://webmail.aol.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From millb Fri Jan 4 17:46:33 2008 From: millb (millb at aol.com) Date: Fri, 04 Jan 2008 17:46:33 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: SOLD OUT! AWP 2008 Conference & Bookfair in NYC In-Reply-To: <8CA1D398392860E-644-2673@webmail-dd04.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CA1D398392860E-644-2673@webmail-dd04.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <8CA1D3AC9DA473B-C34-25E9@webmail-md02.sysops.aol.com> Gosh, I remember the smallish conferences like in Miami back in the 80's. -----Original Message----- From: jforjames at aol.com To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Fri, 4 Jan 2008 2:37 pm Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: SOLD OUT! AWP 2008 Conference & Bookfair in NYC -----Original Message----- From: AWP Conference To: jforjames at aol.com Sent: Fri, 4 Jan 2008 12:46 pm Subject: SOLD OUT! AWP 2008 Conference & Bookfair in NYC Dear AWP Friend: AWP?s 2008 Conference & Bookfair in New York is sold out. No more passes ill be sold. There will be no on-site registration available at the onference-site hotels. Only pre-registered individuals possessing a registration badge will be dmitted into the conference events and the bookfair. 7,500 people will be attending this year?s conference, making it the largest onference in AWP?s history, and one of North America?s best-attended iterary events. We are sorry to disappoint you if you have not yet registered. Next year?s onference will be in Chicago, Illinois, February 11-14, 2009. The deadline or proposing events for next year?s conference is May 1, 2008, and we will egin accepting proposals on February 1, 2008. Please see our website for ore information. If you are already registered for the conference, please be advised that any events will be crowded. Please plan to arrive early for those events hat are most important to you. With more than 300 events, 500 exhibitors, and 7,500 attendees, AWP?s onference and bookfair has never involved more of its members or more of he book-loving public. In academic circles, for decades now, the fate of 'the public intellectual'' has been a frequent issue of debate. The riter's place is in the public square; and happily, we have succeeded in uilding the meeting place of artistic enterprise and public enjoyment, a eeting place of town and gown. We are delighted that so many of you have chosen to help us celebrate AWP?s 0th Anniversary in New York City. This unprecedented, record-breaking onference will be a fine way for us to commemorate AWP?s four decades of ervice to writers, teachers, and the reading public. Thank you for your support. Happy New Year, David Fenza xecutive Director he Association of Writers & Writing Programs More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail! _______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry ________________________________________________________________________ More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://webmail.aol.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rwilsnac Fri Jan 4 19:05:14 2008 From: rwilsnac (Richard Wilsnack) Date: Fri, 04 Jan 2008 18:05:14 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Guessing Game In-Reply-To: <9b1b9dab0801032130l6979b709jeae19d710b92e84a@mail.gmail.com> References: <200801032226.m03MQb2f009890@wiz.cath.vt.edu> <15A7D26E-A79F-46E6-A416-E4DAE0E84B5E@verizon.net> <8CA1C804E548358-13FC-7BE@webmail-mf02.sysops.aol.com> <477D8434.8080507@opus40.org> <9b1b9dab0801032130l6979b709jeae19d710b92e84a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <477EC9BA.3040407@medicine.nodak.edu> Chris Lott wrote: > OK-- well can you believe that Nijinsky and Auden both have a Bacon > Number of 3? Groucho is 2, but that's to be expected I guess. Can you provide our inquiring minds with the links to Kevin Bacon for Nijinsky and Auden? Richard W. Wilsnack rwilsnac at medicine.nodak.edu From chris.lott Fri Jan 4 19:35:12 2008 From: chris.lott (Chris Lott) Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2008 15:35:12 -0900 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Guessing Game In-Reply-To: <477EC9BA.3040407@medicine.nodak.edu> References: <200801032226.m03MQb2f009890@wiz.cath.vt.edu> <15A7D26E-A79F-46E6-A416-E4DAE0E84B5E@verizon.net> <8CA1C804E548358-13FC-7BE@webmail-mf02.sysops.aol.com> <477D8434.8080507@opus40.org> <9b1b9dab0801032130l6979b709jeae19d710b92e84a@mail.gmail.com> <477EC9BA.3040407@medicine.nodak.edu> Message-ID: <9b1b9dab0801041635q4cf1b7faw857a8c839d7c36e2@mail.gmail.com> On Jan 4, 2008 3:05 PM, Richard Wilsnack wrote: > Chris Lott wrote: > > OK-- well can you believe that Nijinsky and Auden both have a Bacon > > Number of 3? Groucho is 2, but that's to be expected I guess. > Can you provide our inquiring minds with the links to Kevin Bacon for > Nijinsky and Auden? Auden was in Galaxie (1966) with George Kuchar George Kuchar was in Bongwater (1997) with Scott Caan Scott Caan was in Novocaine (2001) with Kevin Bacon Nijinsky wrote the diaries adapted sas The Diaries of Vaslav Nijinsky (2001) with Derek Jacobi Derek Jacobi was in Nanny McPhee (2005) with Colin Firth Colin Firth was in Where the Truth Lies (2005) with Kevin Bacon c From JforJames Sat Jan 5 12:57:28 2008 From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2008 12:57:28 EST Subject: [New-Poetry] movie recommended for poets Message-ID: With a bit of time off in the last week or so, I spent some time catching up on flicks I'd been meaning to see, and this one called ONCE, I'd recommend... _http://www.foxsearchlight.com/once/_ (http://www.foxsearchlight.com/once/) **************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape. http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames Sat Jan 5 14:59:24 2008 From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2008 14:59:24 EST Subject: [New-Poetry] McKellen reads The Prelude Message-ID: _http://www.blackpoolgazette.co.uk/blackpoolnews/Movie-star39s-poetry-reading- out.3642131.jp_ (http://www.blackpoolgazette.co.uk/blackpoolnews/Movie-star39s-poetry-reading-out.3642131.jp) Published Date: 07 January 2008 Source: Blackpool Gazette A reading by Sir Ian McKellen of a popular selection of passages from William Wordsworth's greatest poem, The Prelude, has been released on a new CD by the Wordsworth Trust. The selection comes from a reading of the whole poem by the famous actor recorded between 2005 and 2006 at Dove Cottage, Grasmere, in the Lake District, Wordsworth?s home from 1799 to 1808. **************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape. http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini Sat Jan 5 16:45:31 2008 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2008 22:45:31 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] movie recommended for poets References: Message-ID: <009001c84fe4$4b890d70$38d63152@ANNY> the free soundtrack is particularly good, hopefully I will be able to find the movie somewhere. ----- Original Message ----- From: JforJames at aol.com To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2008 6:57 PM Subject: [New-Poetry] movie recommended for poets With a bit of time off in the last week or so, I spent some time catching up on flicks I'd been meaning to see, and this one called ONCE, I'd recommend... http://www.foxsearchlight.com/once/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape in the new year. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From drjazz Sun Jan 6 11:37:13 2008 From: drjazz (David Graham) Date: Sun, 06 Jan 2008 08:37:13 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] Birthday Message-ID: Carl Sandburg's birthday today. Picnic Boat Sunday night and the park policemen tell each other it is dark as a stack of black cats on Lake Michigan. A big picnic boat comes home to Chicago from the peach farms of Saugatuck. Hundreds of electric bulbs break the night's darkness, a flock of red and yellow birds with wings at a standstill. Running along the deck railings are festoons and leaping in curves are loops of light from prow and stern to the tall smokestacks. Over the hoarse crunch of waves at my pier comes a hoarse answer in the rhythmic oompa of the brasses playing a Polish folk-song for the home-comers. --Carl Sandburg. Chicago Poems, 1916. ============================== David Graham drjazz at mac.com grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/About%20Me.html Poetry Library: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ============================== From drjazz Sun Jan 6 11:38:12 2008 From: drjazz (David Graham) Date: Sun, 06 Jan 2008 08:38:12 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] Birthday Message-ID: Carl Sandburg's birthday today. Picnic Boat Sunday night and the park policemen tell each other it is dark as a stack of black cats on Lake Michigan. A big picnic boat comes home to Chicago from the peach farms of Saugatuck. Hundreds of electric bulbs break the night's darkness, a flock of red and yellow birds with wings at a standstill. Running along the deck railings are festoons and leaping in curves are loops of light from prow and stern to the tall smokestacks. Over the hoarse crunch of waves at my pier comes a hoarse answer in the rhythmic oompa of the brasses playing a Polish folk-song for the home-comers. --Carl Sandburg. Chicago Poems, 1916. ============================== David Graham drjazz at mac.com grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/About%20Me.html Poetry Library: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ============================== From jforjames Sun Jan 6 17:54:11 2008 From: jforjames (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Sun, 06 Jan 2008 17:54:11 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] 'Our World' by Mary Oliver Message-ID: <8CA1ECE3004390A-1EA4-1882@webmail-md01.sysops.aol.com> http://www.latimes.com/features/books/la-bk-reynolds6jan06,0,5486849.story?coll=la-books-headlines 'Our World' by Mary Oliver The photographs of the late Molly Malone Cook, with a text by her partner, poet Mary Oliver. By Susan Salter Reynolds January 6, 2008 Our World Mary Oliver, photographs by Molly Malone Cook Beacon Press: 88 pp. $24.95 Used to be, if you telephoned the poet Mary Oliver, her partner Molly Cook would invariably answer. She'd ask you to hold on a moment, feign footsteps and return to the phone as Oliver, making no pretense at a different voice (editors across the country routinely played along). Cook was, for many years, Oliver's agent. Oliver, everyone understood, was a bit of a recluse. She needed nature and solitude to create her poems. "Writers must . . . take care of the sensibility that houses the possibility of poems," she wrote in "A Poetry Handbook." Cook, who died in 2005 of lung cancer, at 80, was the sociable one. ________________________________________________________________________ More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://webmail.aol.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames Sun Jan 6 18:43:09 2008 From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2008 18:43:09 EST Subject: [New-Poetry] Birthday Message-ID: Manitoba Childe Roland Last night a January wind was ripping at the shingles over our house and whistling a wolf song under the eaves. I sat in a leather rocker and read to a six-year-old girl the Browning poem, Childe Roland to the Dark Tower Came. And her eyes had the haze of autumn hills and it was beautiful to her and she could not understand. A man is crossing a big prairie, says the poem, and nothing happens-and he goes on and on?and it?s all lonesome and empty and nobody home. And he goes on and on?and nothing happens?and he comes on a horse?s skull, dry bones of a dead horse?and you know more than ever it?s all lonesome and empty and nobody home. And the man raises a horn to his lips and blows?he fixes a proud neck and forehead toward the empty sky and the empty land?and blows one last wonder-cry. And as the shuttling automatic memory of man clicks off its results willy-nilly and inevitable as the snick of a mouse-trap or the trajectory of a 42-centimeter projectile, I flash to the form of a man to his hips in snow drifts of Manitoba and Minnesota?in the Sled derby run form Manitoba?in the sled derby from Winnipeg to Minneapolis. He is beaten in the race the first day out of Winnipeg?the lead dog is eaten by four team mates?and the man goes on and on?running while the other racers sleep? Lost in a blizzard twenty-four hours, repeating a circle of travel hour after hour?fighting the dogs who dig holes in the snow and whimper for sleep? pushing on?running and walking five-hundred miles to the end of the race?almost a winner?one toe frozen, feet blistered and frost-bitten And I know why a thousand young men of the Northwest meet him in the finishing mile and yell cheers?I know why judges of the race call him a winner and give him a special prize even though he is a loser. I know he kept under his shirt and around his thudding heart amid the blizzards of the five hundred miles that one last wonder-cry of Childe Roland?and I told the six-year-old girl all about it. And while the January wind was ripping at the shingles and whistling a wolf song under the eaves, her eyes had the haze of autumn hills and it was beautiful to her and she could not understand. --Carl Sandburg **************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape. http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini Sun Jan 6 18:54:33 2008 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2008 00:54:33 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Viktor Frankl Message-ID: <007d01c850bf$7ccc7990$82a93852@ANNY> Frankl, Viktor, E. (1985). Man's Search for Meaning. New York, N.Y.: Washington Square Press. "Sed omnia praeclara tam difficilia quam rara sunt" (but everything great is just as difficult to realize as it is rare to find) read the last sentence of the Ethics of Spinoza. You may of course ask, whether we really need to refer to "saints." Wouldn't it suffice just to refer to decent people? It is true that they form a minority. More than that, they always will remain a minority. And yet I see therein the very challenge to join the minority. For the world is in a bad state, but everything will become still worse unless each of us does his best. So, let us be alert - alert in a twofold sense: Since Auschwitz we know what man is capable of. And since Hiroshima we know what is at stake. (p. 179) But more important, the cigarettes could be exchanged for twelve soups, and twelve soups were often a very real respite from starvation. (p. 26) Suddenly a cry broke from the ranks of the anxious passengers, "There is a sign, Auschwitz!" Everyone's heart missed a beat at that moment. Auschwitz-the very name stood for all that was horrible: gas chambers, crematoriums, massacres. Slowly, almost hesitatingly, the train moved on as if it wanted to spare its passengers the dreadful realization as long as possible: Auschwitz! (p. 27) I tried to take one of the old prisoners into my confidence. Approaching him furtively, I pointed to the roll of paper in the inner pocket of my coat and said, "Look, this is the manuscript of a scientific book. I know what you will say; that I should be grateful to escape with my life, that that should be all I can expect of fate. But I cannot help myself. I must keep this manuscript at all costs; it contains my life's work. do you understand that?" Yes, he was beginning to understand. A grin spread slowly over his face, first piteous, then more amused, mocking, insulting, intil he bellowed one word at me in answer to my question, a word that was ever present in the vocabulary of the camp inmates "Shit!" At that moment I saw the plain truth and did what marked the culminating point of the first phase of my psychological reaction: I struck out my whole former life. (p. 33) If someone now asked of us the truth of Dostoevski's statement that flatly defines man as a being who can get used to anything, we would reply, "Yes, a man can get used to anything, but do not ask us how." (p. 36) I think it was Lessing who once said, "There are things which must cause you to lose your reason or you have none to lose." An abnormal reaction to an abnormal situation is normal behavior. (p. 38) I did not know what was going on in the line behind me, nor in the mind of the SS guard, but suddenly I received two sharp blows on my head. Only then did I spot the guard at my side who was using this stick. At such a moment it si not the physical pain which hurts the most (and this applies to adults as much as to punished children); it is the mental agony caused by the injustice, the unreasonableness of it all. (p. 42) If someone had seen out faces on the journey from Auschwitz to a Bavarian camp a we beheld the mountains of Salzburg with their summits glowing in th sunset, through the little barred windows of the prison carriage, he would never have believed that those were the faces of men who had given up all hope of life and liberty. Despite that factor-or maybe because of it-we were carried away by nature's beauty, which we had missed for so long. (p. 59) Dostoevski said once, "There is only one thing that I dread: not to be worthy of my sufferings." These words frequently came to my mind after I became acquainted with those martyrs whose behavior in campo, whose suffering and death, bore witness to the fact that the last inner freedom cannot be lost. It can be said that they were worthy of their sufferings; the way they bore their suffering was a genuine inner achievement. It si this spiritual freedom-which cannot be taken away-that makes life meaningful and purposeful. (p.87) What does Spinoza say in his Ethics?-"Affectus, qui passio est, desinit esse passio simulatque eius charam et sitinctam formamus ideam." Emotion, which is suffering, ceases to be suffering as soon as we form a clear and precise picture of it. (p. 95) When a man finds that it is his destiny to suffer, he will have to accept his suffering as his task; his single and unique task. He will have to acknowledge the fact that even in suffering he is unique and alone in the universe. No one can relieve him of his suffering or suffer in his place. His unique opportunity lies in the way in which he bears his burden. (p. 99) We had realized its hidden opportunities for achievement, the opportunities which caused the poet Rilke to write, "Wie viel ist aufzuleiden!" (How much suffering there is to get through!) (p. 100) And I quoted from Nietzsche: "Was mich nicht umbringt, macht mich staerker." (That which does not kill me, makes me stronger.) (p. 103) Then I spoke of the many opportunities of giving life a meaning. I told my comrades (who lay motionless, although occasionally a sigh could be heard) that human life, under any circumstances, never ceases to have a meaning, and that [.] When the electric bulb flared up again, I saw the miserable figures of my friends limping toward me to thank me with tears in their eyes. (p. 105) >From all this we may learn that there are two races of men in this world, but only these two-the "race" of the decent man and the "race" of the indecent man. Both are found everywhere; they penetrate into all groups of society. No group consists entirely od decent or indecent people. In this sense, no group is of "pure race"-and therefore one occasionally found a decent fellow among the camp guards. (p. 108) Woe to him who found that the person whose memory alone had given him courage in camp did not exist any more! Woe to him who, when the day of his dreams finally came, found it so different from all he had longed for! Perhaps he boarded a trolley, traveled out to the home which he had seen for years in his mind, and only in his mind, and pressed the bell, just as he ha longed to do in thousands of dreams, only to find that the person who should open the door was not there, and would never be there again. (p. 114) see a page on the Author on: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viktor_Frankl -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini Sun Jan 6 19:33:16 2008 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2008 01:33:16 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Viktor Frankl References: <007d01c850bf$7ccc7990$82a93852@ANNY> Message-ID: <00a501c850c4$e5f1f2b0$82a93852@ANNY> What a sloppy typing, I tried to correct what I noticed on my blog, sorry for this: http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/2008/01/viktor-frankl-mans-search-for-meaning.html ----- Original Message ----- From: Anny Ballardini To: New Poetry Sent: Monday, January 07, 2008 12:54 AM Subject: [New-Poetry] Viktor Frankl Frankl, Viktor, E. (1985). Man's Search for Meaning. New York, N.Y.: Washington Square Press. "Sed omnia praeclara tam difficilia quam rara sunt" (but everything great is just as difficult to realize as it is rare to find) read the last sentence of the Ethics of Spinoza. You may of course ask, whether we really need to refer to "saints." Wouldn't it suffice just to refer to decent people? It is true that they form a minority. More than that, they always will remain a minority. And yet I see therein the very challenge to join the minority. For the world is in a bad state, but everything will become still worse unless each of us does his best. So, let us be alert - alert in a twofold sense: Since Auschwitz we know what man is capable of. And since Hiroshima we know what is at stake. (p. 179) But more important, the cigarettes could be exchanged for twelve soups, and twelve soups were often a very real respite from starvation. (p. 26) Suddenly a cry broke from the ranks of the anxious passengers, "There is a sign, Auschwitz!" Everyone's heart missed a beat at that moment. Auschwitz-the very name stood for all that was horrible: gas chambers, crematoriums, massacres. Slowly, almost hesitatingly, the train moved on as if it wanted to spare its passengers the dreadful realization as long as possible: Auschwitz! (p. 27) I tried to take one of the old prisoners into my confidence. Approaching him furtively, I pointed to the roll of paper in the inner pocket of my coat and said, "Look, this is the manuscript of a scientific book. I know what you will say; that I should be grateful to escape with my life, that that should be all I can expect of fate. But I cannot help myself. I must keep this manuscript at all costs; it contains my life's work. do you understand that?" Yes, he was beginning to understand. A grin spread slowly over his face, first piteous, then more amused, mocking, insulting, intil he bellowed one word at me in answer to my question, a word that was ever present in the vocabulary of the camp inmates "Shit!" At that moment I saw the plain truth and did what marked the culminating point of the first phase of my psychological reaction: I struck out my whole former life. (p. 33) If someone now asked of us the truth of Dostoevski's statement that flatly defines man as a being who can get used to anything, we would reply, "Yes, a man can get used to anything, but do not ask us how." (p. 36) I think it was Lessing who once said, "There are things which must cause you to lose your reason or you have none to lose." An abnormal reaction to an abnormal situation is normal behavior. (p. 38) I did not know what was going on in the line behind me, nor in the mind of the SS guard, but suddenly I received two sharp blows on my head. Only then did I spot the guard at my side who was using this stick. At such a moment it si not the physical pain which hurts the most (and this applies to adults as much as to punished children); it is the mental agony caused by the injustice, the unreasonableness of it all. (p. 42) If someone had seen out faces on the journey from Auschwitz to a Bavarian camp a we beheld the mountains of Salzburg with their summits glowing in th sunset, through the little barred windows of the prison carriage, he would never have believed that those were the faces of men who had given up all hope of life and liberty. Despite that factor-or maybe because of it-we were carried away by nature's beauty, which we had missed for so long. (p. 59) Dostoevski said once, "There is only one thing that I dread: not to be worthy of my sufferings." These words frequently came to my mind after I became acquainted with those martyrs whose behavior in campo, whose suffering and death, bore witness to the fact that the last inner freedom cannot be lost. It can be said that they were worthy of their sufferings; the way they bore their suffering was a genuine inner achievement. It si this spiritual freedom-which cannot be taken away-that makes life meaningful and purposeful. (p.87) What does Spinoza say in his Ethics?-"Affectus, qui passio est, desinit esse passio simulatque eius charam et sitinctam formamus ideam." Emotion, which is suffering, ceases to be suffering as soon as we form a clear and precise picture of it. (p. 95) When a man finds that it is his destiny to suffer, he will have to accept his suffering as his task; his single and unique task. He will have to acknowledge the fact that even in suffering he is unique and alone in the universe. No one can relieve him of his suffering or suffer in his place. His unique opportunity lies in the way in which he bears his burden. (p. 99) We had realized its hidden opportunities for achievement, the opportunities which caused the poet Rilke to write, "Wie viel ist aufzuleiden!" (How much suffering there is to get through!) (p. 100) And I quoted from Nietzsche: "Was mich nicht umbringt, macht mich staerker." (That which does not kill me, makes me stronger.) (p. 103) Then I spoke of the many opportunities of giving life a meaning. I told my comrades (who lay motionless, although occasionally a sigh could be heard) that human life, under any circumstances, never ceases to have a meaning, and that [.] When the electric bulb flared up again, I saw the miserable figures of my friends limping toward me to thank me with tears in their eyes. (p. 105) From all this we may learn that there are two races of men in this world, but only these two-the "race" of the decent man and the "race" of the indecent man. Both are found everywhere; they penetrate into all groups of society. No group consists entirely od decent or indecent people. In this sense, no group is of "pure race"-and therefore one occasionally found a decent fellow among the camp guards. (p. 108) Woe to him who found that the person whose memory alone had given him courage in camp did not exist any more! Woe to him who, when the day of his dreams finally came, found it so different from all he had longed for! Perhaps he boarded a trolley, traveled out to the home which he had seen for years in his mind, and only in his mind, and pressed the bell, just as he ha longed to do in thousands of dreams, only to find that the person who should open the door was not there, and would never be there again. (p. 114) see a page on the Author on: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viktor_Frankl ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames Mon Jan 7 12:08:42 2008 From: jforjames (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2008 12:08:42 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Must we admire the poet to honor his work? Message-ID: <8CA1F6716D6DF89-1298-A54@FWM-D19.sysops.aol.com> http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-martinez7jan07,1,3192981.column?coll=la-util-news-local Al Martinez: Must we admire the poet to honor his work? January 7, 2008 Oscar Wilde went to prison in 1895 for flaunting his homosexuality. Ezra Pound was indicted for treason in 1943 for broadcasting on behalf of the Italian fascists in the Second World War. Dylan Thomas died in 1953 after proclaiming that he had just downed 18 straight whiskeys and wondering if it were a record. I mention them to emphasize that not all poets are whispering pixies. Some are maniacs, some are drunks and some are general hell-raisers. Which brings us to Charles Bukowski, who was probably all of the above. Although those who knew him might agree that he was a raving, brawling alcoholic, the question has arisen: Was he a Jew-hating Nazi sympathizer? I knew you'd wonder. ________________________________________________________________________ More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://webmail.aol.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Edward.Byrne Mon Jan 7 12:16:30 2008 From: Edward.Byrne (Edward Byrne) Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2008 11:16:30 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] AWP sold out follow-up Message-ID: <47820A0B.7112.006E.0@valpo.edu> On Friday morning I posted an article at "One Poet's Notes" about AWP being sold out and not allowing on-site registration. I insisted AWP needed to amend its policy. As a result, I later received a note from one of the AWP officials informing me that they have now decided anyone who has made travel or lodging arrangements will quietly be allowed to register if they contact AWP soon. Also, anyone who is to be a presenter or to participate in the book fair will still be allowed to register. I think they are making other case by case exceptions as well. Perhaps this will help someone on the list. You can pass this information along to others if you like. The original "One Poet's Notes" entry is at the following: http://edwardbyrne.blogspot.com/ Happy New Year to all! Ed -------------------------------------------------- Edward Byrne Department of English 322 Huegli Hall Valparaiso University Valparaiso, IN 46383-6493 E-mail: edward.byrne at valpo.edu Home Page: http://www.valpo.edu/home/faculty/ebyrne/homepage/ Blog: http://edwardbyrne.blogspot.com/ Editor, Valparaiso Poetry Review E-mail: vpr at valpo.edu VPR Web Page: http://www.valpo.edu/english/vpr/ Office Phone: (219) 464-5278 Fax: (219) 464-5511 -------------------------------------------------- From AlMaginnes Mon Jan 7 12:41:48 2008 From: AlMaginnes (AlMaginnes at aol.com) Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2008 12:41:48 EST Subject: [New-Poetry] Must we admire the poet to honor his work? Message-ID: I've read enough by and about Bukowski to think that he was no admirer of Hitler (or of many other authority figures). However, I don't think he was a good enough writer for L.A. to be making him a tourist attraction either. **************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape. http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Opus40-01 Mon Jan 7 13:21:10 2008 From: Opus40-01 (TheOldMole) Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2008 13:21:10 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Must we admire the poet to honor his work? In-Reply-To: <8CA1F6716D6DF89-1298-A54@FWM-D19.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CA1F6716D6DF89-1298-A54@FWM-D19.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <47826D96.40508@opus40.org> Pound's values we mostly hate now, Wilde's we mostly admire, Thomas is a wash (literally as well as figuratively). Times change, and as we've heard, will pardon Paul Claudel, even if Auden changed his mind about that. A better example would be a contemporary one -- Baraka. Some artists are wildly controversial, and sometimes that controversiality recedes after they've been dead for a while. Sometimes their reputation does, too. It doesn't much matter whether time pardons Paul Claudel if no one is reading him any more. Marion Greenwood, an important artist and muralist of the WPA era and a friend of my parents, executed a commissioned mural at the University of Tennessee, which caused a major political controversy years after her death -- http://www.thefileroom.org/documents/dyn/DisplayCase.cfm/id/971 -- because of what came to be seen as racial stereotyping, but was publicly acceptable back then. Other muralists of that period, such as Anton Refregier, were pilloried at the time for what seemed overtly leftist images, but those are accepted now. The moral -- if you're an organ of the state, in these times, don't get involved with controversial artists. Don't make Baraka your Poet Laureate, don't make Bukowski's home a historic landmark. Wait 50 years. If people still care about Bukowski's art then, they'll have pardoned his views, whatever they were -- or in B's case, more likely his manners. Of course, had this advice been followed during the 30s, we wouldn't have those great murals by Greenwood and Refregier and Wendell Jones. And as an artist, I ain't gonna give no advice to the state, anyway. There is no such thing as the State, And no one exists alone. jforjames at aol.com wrote: > http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-martinez7jan07,1,3192981.column?coll=la-util-news-local > > Al Martinez: > Must we admire the poet to honor his work? > January 7, 2008 > > Oscar Wilde went to prison in 1895 for flaunting his homosexuality. > Ezra Pound was indicted for treason in 1943 for broadcasting on behalf > of the Italian fascists in the Second World War. Dylan Thomas died in > 1953 after proclaiming that he had just downed 18 straight whiskeys > and wondering if it were a record. > > I mention them to emphasize that not all poets are whispering pixies. > Some are maniacs, some are drunks and some are general hell-raisers. > Which brings us to Charles Bukowski, who was probably all of the > above. Although those who knew him might agree that he was a raving, > brawling alcoholic, the question has arisen: Was he a Jew-hating Nazi > sympathizer? I knew you'd wonder. > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail > ! > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ The moral is this: in American verse, The better you are, the pay is worse. --Corey Ford From jforjames Mon Jan 7 13:21:37 2008 From: jforjames (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2008 13:21:37 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] AWP sold out follow-up In-Reply-To: <47820A0B.7112.006E.0@valpo.edu> References: <47820A0B.7112.006E.0@valpo.edu> Message-ID: <8CA1F7146DD04C7-1298-F7A@FWM-D19.sysops.aol.com> I have suggested to AWP that some of the many out-of-work MFA graduates, especially those who played football in high school, could be hired as bouncers and for crowd control purposes at the conference. They could also set up an interrogation room behind the book fair, where unruly gate-crashers could be beaten with copies of The?Norton Anthology (not the short?edition). -----Original Message----- From: Edward Byrne To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Mon, 7 Jan 2008 12:16 pm Subject: [New-Poetry] AWP sold out follow-up On Friday morning I posted an article at "One Poet's Notes" about AWP being sold out and not allowing on-site registration. I insisted AWP needed to amend its policy. As a result, I later received a note from one of the AWP officials informing me that they have now decided anyone who has made travel or lodging arrangements will quietly be allowed to register if they contact AWP soon. Also, anyone who is to be a presenter or to participate in the book fair will still be allowed to register. I think they are making other case by case exceptions as well. Perhaps this will help someone on the list. You can pass this information along to others if you like. The original "One Poet's Notes" entry is at the following: http://edwardbyrne.blogspot.com/ Happy New Year to all! Ed -------------------------------------------------- Edward Byrne Department of English 322 Huegli Hall Valparaiso University Valparaiso, IN 46383-6493 E-mail: edward.byrne at valpo.edu Home Page: http://www.valpo.edu/home/faculty/ebyrne/homepage/ Blog: http://edwardbyrne.blogspot.com/ Editor, Valparaiso Poetry Review E-mail: vpr at valpo.edu VPR Web Page: http://www.valpo.edu/english/vpr/ Office Phone: (219) 464-5278 Fax: (219) 464-5511 -------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry ________________________________________________________________________ More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://webmail.aol.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard Mon Jan 7 14:30:30 2008 From: halvard (Halvard Johnson) Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2008 13:30:30 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] AWP sold out follow-up In-Reply-To: <8CA1F7146DD04C7-1298-F7A@FWM-D19.sysops.aol.com> References: <47820A0B.7112.006E.0@valpo.edu> <8CA1F7146DD04C7-1298-F7A@FWM-D19.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <378D7BC7-D375-487E-8B63-CD310547D747@earthlink.net> Don't taze me, bro! Hal "Context is everything that content is not." --Anon. Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html On Jan 7, 2008, at 12:21 PM, JforJames at aol.com wrote: > I have suggested to AWP that some of the many out-of-work MFA > graduates, especially those who played football in high school, > could be hired as bouncers and for crowd control purposes at the > conference. They could also set up an interrogation room > behind the book fair, where unruly gate-crashers could be beaten > with copies of The Norton Anthology (not the short edition). > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Edward Byrne > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Sent: Mon, 7 Jan 2008 12:16 pm > Subject: [New-Poetry] AWP sold out follow-up > > On Friday morning I posted an article at "One Poet's Notes" about > AWP being sold > out and not allowing on-site registration. I insisted AWP needed to > amend its > policy. As a result, I later received a note from one of the AWP > officials > informing me that they have now decided anyone who has made travel > or lodging > arrangements will quietly be allowed to register if they contact AWP > soon. Also, > anyone who is to be a presenter or to participate in the book fair > will still be > allowed to register. I think they are making other case by case > exceptions as > well. Perhaps this will help someone on the list. You can pass this > information > along to others if you like. > > The original "One Poet's Notes" entry is at the following: > http://edwardbyrne.blogspot.com/ > > Happy New Year to all! > > Ed > > > > -------------------------------------------------- > > Edward Byrne > Department of English > 322 Huegli Hall > Valparaiso University > Valparaiso, IN 46383-6493 > > E-mail: edward.byrne at valpo.edu > Home Page: > http://www.valpo.edu/home/faculty/ebyrne/homepage/ > Blog: > http://edwardbyrne.blogspot.com/ > > Editor, Valparaiso Poetry Review > E-mail: vpr at valpo.edu > VPR Web Page: http://www.valpo.edu/english/vpr/ > Office Phone: (219) 464-5278 > Fax: (219) 464-5511 > > -------------------------------------------------- > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail! > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames Mon Jan 7 14:44:34 2008 From: jforjames (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2008 14:44:34 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] AWP sold out follow-up In-Reply-To: <378D7BC7-D375-487E-8B63-CD310547D747@earthlink.net> References: <47820A0B.7112.006E.0@valpo.edu> <8CA1F7146DD04C7-1298-F7A@FWM-D19.sysops.aol.com> <378D7BC7-D375-487E-8B63-CD310547D747@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <8CA1F7CDCD71842-DCC-D02@WEBMAIL-DC04.sysops.aol.com> Hal, just a wear a brown shirt and you?should be okay. -----Original Message----- From: Halvard Johnson Bcc: jforjames at aol.com Sent: Mon, 7 Jan 2008 2:30 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] AWP sold out follow-up Don't taze me, bro! Hal "Context is everything that content is not." ? ?? ?? ?? ?? ?? ?? ?? ?--Anon. Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html http://entropyandme.blogspot.com? http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html On Jan 7, 2008, at 12:21 PM, JforJames at aol.com wrote: I have suggested to AWP that some of the many out-of-work MFA graduates, especially those who played football in high school, could be hired as bouncers and for crowd control purposes at the conference. They could also set up an interrogation room behind the book fair, where unruly gate-crashers could be beaten with copies of The?Norton Anthology (not the short?edition). -----Original Message----- From: Edward Byrne To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Mon, 7 Jan 2008 12:16 pm Subject: [New-Poetry] AWP sold out follow-up On Friday morning I posted an article at "One Poet's Notes" about AWP being sold out and not allowing on-site registration. I insisted AWP needed to amend its policy. As a result, I later received a note from one of the AWP officials informing me that they have now decided anyone who has made travel or lodging arrangements will quietly be allowed to register if they contact AWP soon. Also, anyone who is to be a presenter or to participate in the book fair will still be allowed to register. I think they are making other case by case exceptions as well. Perhaps this will help someone on the list. You can pass this information along to others if you like. The original "One Poet's Notes" entry is at the following: http://edwardbyrne.blogspot.com/ Happy New Year to all! Ed -------------------------------------------------- Edward Byrne Department of English 322 Huegli Hall Valparaiso University Valparaiso, IN 46383-6493 E-mail: edward.byrne at valpo.edu Home Page: http://www.valpo.edu/home/faculty/ebyrne/homepage/ Blog: http://edwardbyrne.blogspot.com/ Editor, Valparaiso Poetry Review E-mail: vpr at valpo.edu VPR Web Page: http://www.valpo.edu/english/vpr/ Office Phone: (219) 464-5278 Fax: (219) 464-5511 -------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail! _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry = _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry ________________________________________________________________________ More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://webmail.aol.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini Mon Jan 7 14:56:44 2008 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2008 20:56:44 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] AWP sold out follow-up References: <47820A0B.7112.006E.0@valpo.edu> <8CA1F7146DD04C7-1298-F7A@FWM-D19.sysops.aol.com><378D7BC7-D375-487E-8B63-CD310547D747@earthlink.net> <8CA1F7CDCD71842-DCC-D02@WEBMAIL-DC04.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <009201c85167$6e268a40$3bab3452@ANNY> oh yes, a big fat book on Hal's head when he starts flying all around! I mean, he's not a butterfly... ----- Original Message ----- From: jforjames at aol.com To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Monday, January 07, 2008 8:44 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] AWP sold out follow-up Hal, just a wear a brown shirt and you should be okay. -----Original Message----- From: Halvard Johnson Bcc: jforjames at aol.com Sent: Mon, 7 Jan 2008 2:30 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] AWP sold out follow-up Don't taze me, bro! Hal "Context is everything that content is not." --Anon. Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html On Jan 7, 2008, at 12:21 PM, JforJames at aol.com wrote: I have suggested to AWP that some of the many out-of-work MFA graduates, especially those who played football in high school, could be hired as bouncers and for crowd control purposes at the conference. They could also set up an interrogation room behind the book fair, where unruly gate-crashers could be beaten with copies of The Norton Anthology (not the short edition). -----Original Message----- From: Edward Byrne To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Mon, 7 Jan 2008 12:16 pm Subject: [New-Poetry] AWP sold out follow-up On Friday morning I posted an article at "One Poet's Notes" about AWP being sold out and not allowing on-site registration. I insisted AWP needed to amend its policy. As a result, I later received a note from one of the AWP officials informing me that they have now decided anyone who has made travel or lodging arrangements will quietly be allowed to register if they contact AWP soon. Also, anyone who is to be a presenter or to participate in the book fair will still be allowed to register. I think they are making other case by case exceptions as well. Perhaps this will help someone on the list. You can pass this information along to others if you like. The original "One Poet's Notes" entry is at the following: http://edwardbyrne.blogspot.com/ Happy New Year to all! Ed -------------------------------------------------- Edward Byrne Department of English 322 Huegli Hall Valparaiso University Valparaiso, IN 46383-6493 E-mail: edward.byrne at valpo.edu Home Page: http://www.valpo.edu/home/faculty/ebyrne/homepage/ Blog: http://edwardbyrne.blogspot.com/ Editor, Valparaiso Poetry Review E-mail: vpr at valpo.edu VPR Web Page: http://www.valpo.edu/english/vpr/ Office Phone: (219) 464-5278 Fax: (219) 464-5511 -------------------------------------------------- -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames Mon Jan 7 17:06:59 2008 From: jforjames (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2008 17:06:59 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: SOLD OUT! AWP 2008 Conference & Bookfair in NYC In-Reply-To: <8CA1F84033CB246-ED8-1AAB@FWM-M28.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CA1D398392860E-644-2673@webmail-dd04.sysops.aol.com> <8CA1F84033CB246-ED8-1AAB@FWM-M28.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <8CA1F90C240BBF0-155C-C21@WEBMAIL-DG02> Only pre-registered individuals possessing a registration badge will be dmitted into the conference events and the bookfair. Hal: "Badges? We ain't got no badges! We don't need no badges! I don't have to show you any stinking badges." (scuffling noises...then whap, whap, whap) -----Original Message----- From: AWP Conference To: jforjames at aol.com Sent: Fri, 4 Jan 2008 12:46 pm Subject: SOLD OUT! AWP 2008 Conference & Bookfair in NYC Dear AWP Friend: AWP?s 2008 Conference & Bookfair in New York is sold out. No more passes ill be sold. There will be no on-site registration available at the onference-site hotels. Only pre-registered individuals possessing a registration badge will be dmitted into the conference events and the bookfair. 7,500 people will be attending this year?s conference, making it the largest onference in AWP?s history, and one of North America?s best-attended iterary events. We are sorry to disappoint you if you have not yet registered. Next year?s onference will be in Chicago, Illinois, February 11-14, 2009. The deadline or proposing events for next year?s conference is May 1, 2008, and we will egin accepting proposals on February 1, 2008. Please see our website for ore information. If you are already registered for the conference, please be advised that any events will be crowded. Please plan to arrive early for those events hat are most important to you. With more than 300 events, 500 exhibitors, and 7,500 attendees, AWP?s onference and bookfair has never involved more of its members or more of he book-loving public. In academic circles, for decades now, the fate of 'the public intellectual'' has been a frequent issue of debate. The riter's place is in the public square; and happily, we have succeeded in uilding the meeting place of artistic enterprise and public enjoyment, a eeting place of town and gown. We are delighted that so many of you have chosen to help us celebrate AWP?s 0th Anniversary in New York City. This unprecedented, record-breaking onference will be a fine way for us to commemorate AWP?s four decades of ervice to writers, teachers, and the reading public. Thank you for your support. Happy New Year, David Fenza xecutive Director he Association of Writers & Writing Programs More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail! ________________________________________________________________________ More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://webmail.aol.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From millb Mon Jan 7 17:23:45 2008 From: millb (millb at aol.com) Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2008 17:23:45 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: SOLD OUT! AWP 2008 Conference & Bookfair in NYC In-Reply-To: <8CA1F90C240BBF0-155C-C21@WEBMAIL-DG02> References: <8CA1D398392860E-644-2673@webmail-dd04.sysops.aol.com> <8CA1F84033CB246-ED8-1AAB@FWM-M28.sysops.aol.com> <8CA1F90C240BBF0-155C-C21@WEBMAIL-DG02> Message-ID: <8CA1F931A3F7A7F-540-F3D@webmail-dd14.sysops.aol.com> Yeah, that said, it's been a few years since I was at an AWP conference, but I cannot recall someone actually CHECKING badges.? I mean, it's a ten person panel on lyrical ballads in the era of post-deconstructionism, not a rock concern(t) for gosh sake. :) Probably should not admit this, but I have a vague memory of when I was a starving grad student buying a one day pass and staying for the duration.? At that time, I seem to recall that a "day pass" was about ten dollars less than the conference student rate, but I can't be sure. -----Original Message----- From: jforjames at aol.com To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Mon, 7 Jan 2008 2:06 pm Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: SOLD OUT! AWP 2008 Conference & Bookfair in NYC Only pre-registered individuals possessing a registration badge will be dmitted into the conference events and the bookfair. Hal: "Badges? We ain't got no badges! We don't need no badges! I don't have to show you any stinking badges." (scuffling noises...then whap, whap, whap) -----Original Message----- From: AWP Conference To: jforjames at aol.com Sent: Fri, 4 Jan 2008 12:46 pm Subject: SOLD OUT! AWP 2008 Conference & Bookfair in NYC Dear AWP Friend: AWP?s 2008 Conference & Bookfair in New York is sold out. No more passes ill be sold. There will be no on-site registration available at the onference-site hotels. Only pre-registered individuals possessing a registration badge will be dmitted into the conference events and the bookfair. 7,500 people will be attending this year?s conference, making it the largest onference in AWP?s history, and one of North America?s best-attended iterary events. We are sorry to disappoint you if you have not yet registered. Next year?s onference will be in Chicago, Illinois, February 11-14, 2009. The deadline or proposing events for next year?s conference is May 1, 2008, and we will egin accepting proposals on February 1, 2008. Please see our website for ore information. If you are already registered for the conference, please be advised that any events will be crowded. Please plan to arrive early for those events hat are most important to you. With more than 300 events, 500 exhibitors, and 7,500 attendees, AWP?s onference and bookfair has never involved more of its members or more of he book-loving public. In academic circles, for decades now, the fate of 'the public intellectual'' has been a frequent issue of debate. The riter's place is in the public square; and happily, we have succeeded in uilding the meeting place of artistic enterprise and public enjoyment, a eeting place of town and gown. We are delighted that so many of you have chosen to help us celebrate AWP?s 0th Anniversary in New York City. This unprecedented, record-breaking onference will be a fine way for us to commemorate AWP?s four decades of ervice to writers, teachers, and the reading public. Thank you for your support. Happy New Year, David Fenza xecutive Director he Association of Writers & Writing Programs More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail! _______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry ________________________________________________________________________ More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://webmail.aol.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames Mon Jan 7 17:36:00 2008 From: jforjames (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2008 17:36:00 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Creeley reviewed by Stewart Message-ID: <8CA1F94D0389FEE-155C-E3A@WEBMAIL-DG02> http://www.thenation.com/doc/20080121/stewart ?The poems show a consistent set of themes and concerns as well as a range of changes in form, yet all the while there is one life and one voice joining the whole. Nearly all of Creeley's poems take place in the here and now, and his basic form, though there are important variations, is a string of quatrains as square and carefully joined as a piece of Shaker carpentry. ________________________________________________________________________ More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://webmail.aol.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From AlMaginnes Mon Jan 7 18:29:02 2008 From: AlMaginnes (AlMaginnes at aol.com) Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2008 18:29:02 EST Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: SOLD OUT! AWP 2008 Conference & Bookfair in NYC Message-ID: In Austin and Atlanta there wee actually people standing around checking your badges. I remember when my wife came with me to AWP, attended whatever events took her fancy, toured the city and never was asked for any ID. **************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape. http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Opus40-01 Mon Jan 7 19:10:04 2008 From: Opus40-01 (TheOldMole) Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2008 19:10:04 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: SOLD OUT! AWP 2008 Conference & Bookfair in NYC In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4782BF5C.8030801@opus40.org> No I don't want your I.D. And I can see that you're so far from home But it's no hanging matter It's no capital crime AlMaginnes at aol.com wrote: > In Austin and Atlanta there wee actually people standing around > checking your badges. I remember when my wife came with me to AWP, > attended whatever events took her fancy, toured the city and never was > asked for any ID. > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape > > in the new year. > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ The moral is this: in American verse, The better you are, the pay is worse. --Corey Ford From halvard Mon Jan 7 19:28:27 2008 From: halvard (Halvard Johnson) Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2008 18:28:27 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: SOLD OUT! AWP 2008 Conference & Bookfair in NYC In-Reply-To: <8CA1F931A3F7A7F-540-F3D@webmail-dd14.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CA1D398392860E-644-2673@webmail-dd04.sysops.aol.com> <8CA1F84033CB246-ED8-1AAB@FWM-M28.sysops.aol.com> <8CA1F90C240BBF0-155C-C21@WEBMAIL-DG02> <8CA1F931A3F7A7F-540-F3D@webmail-dd14.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: Come to think of it, Mill, in my experience, about half of the badges that are worn are worn backwards, with the name facing the namee. Hal "I would horsewhip you if I had a horse." --Groucho Marx Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html On Jan 7, 2008, at 4:23 PM, millb at aol.com wrote: > Yeah, that said, it's been a few years since I was at an AWP > conference, but I cannot recall someone actually CHECKING badges. > > I mean, it's a ten person panel on lyrical ballads in the era of > post-deconstructionism, not a rock concern(t) for gosh sake. > > :) > > Probably should not admit this, but I have a vague memory of when I > was a starving grad student buying a one day pass and staying for > the duration. At that time, I seem to recall that a "day pass" was > about ten dollars less than the conference student rate, but I can't > be sure. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: jforjames at aol.com > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Sent: Mon, 7 Jan 2008 2:06 pm > Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: SOLD OUT! AWP 2008 Conference & Bookfair > in NYC > > Only pre-registered individuals possessing a registration badge will > be > admitted into the conference events and the bookfair. > > Hal: "Badges? We ain't got no badges! We don't need no badges! I > don't have to show you any stinking badges." > > (scuffling noises...then whap, whap, whap) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AWP Conference > To: jforjames at aol.com > Sent: Fri, 4 Jan 2008 12:46 pm > Subject: SOLD OUT! AWP 2008 Conference & Bookfair in NYC > > Dear AWP Friend: > > AWP?s 2008 Conference & Bookfair in New York is sold out. No more > passes > will be sold. There will be no on-site registration available at the > conference-site hotels. > > Only pre-registered individuals possessing a registration badge will > be > admitted into the conference events and the bookfair. > > 7,500 people will be attending this year?s conference, making it the > largest > conference in AWP?s history, and one of North America?s best-attended > literary events. > > We are sorry to disappoint you if you have not yet registered. Next > year?s > conference will be in Chicago, Illinois, February 11-14, 2009. The > deadline > for proposing events for next year?s conference is May 1, 2008, and > we will > begin accepting proposals on February 1, 2008. Please see our > website for > more information. > > If you are already registered for the conference, please be advised > that > many events will be crowded. Please plan to arrive early for those > events > that are most important to you. > > With more than 300 events, 500 exhibitors, and 7,500 attendees, AWP?s > conference and bookfair has never involved more of its members or > more of > the book-loving public. In academic circles, for decades now, the > fate of > ''the public intellectual'' has been a frequent issue of debate. The > writer's place is in the public square; and happily, we have > succeeded in > building the meeting place of artistic enterprise and public > enjoyment, a > meeting place of town and gown. > > We are delighted that so many of you have chosen to help us > celebrate AWP?s > 40th Anniversary in New York City. This unprecedented, record-breaking > conference will be a fine way for us to commemorate AWP?s four > decades of > service to writers, teachers, and the reading public. > > Thank you for your support. > > Happy New Year, > > David Fenza > Executive Director > The Association of Writers & Writing Programs > > More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail! > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini Tue Jan 8 15:31:02 2008 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2008 21:31:02 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] milkmag Message-ID: <003101c85235$632bd360$c8ed064f@ANNY> milkmag.org seeks book reviews. If you've reviewed a book of contemporary poetry please send it my way. I'm especially interested in reviews of books of poetry by younger innovative authors. Thanks, Larry ::: ::::: ::::: ::::: ::::: ::::: ::::: ::::: ::::: Hello, It's been 10 years, and www.milkmag.org has amassed an archive of work that includes some of the most compelling poets writing in English. We'd like to be able to put the first 10 years on CD-ROM to preserve it for posterity. Please help us make this resource available to you. Without help of this kind, small presses and literary journals aren't able to survive. We've made it this far on our own, please help us continue. www.milkmag.org has provided some of the best new poetry and visual art. To keep us going, consider making a donation. Donations of this type are tax deductible, so consider making out a check for a little as $20 to Larry Sawyer (memo line: milk magazine) and mailing it to 5415 N. Sheridan #2602, Chicago, IL, 60640. Please forward this email to those you feel might be interested. See below for some of those who have kept us going. Many thanks, -Larry Sawyer, editor milk magazine :: the first 10 :: includes Wanda Coleman, Joe Amato, Bill Berkson, Cid Corman, Simon Pettet, Frank Lima, Sheila E. Murphy, Spencer Selby, Dale Smith, Ron Padgett, Aaron Belz, Duriel Harris, Brenda Iijima, Jerome Rothenberg, Linh Dinh, kari Edwards, Lorine Niedecker, Rone Shavers, Jim Behrle, Will Alexander, Erika Mikkalo, Judith Malina, Rodrigo Toscano, Michael McClure, Amy King, Todd Colby, William Allegrezza, Gerard Malanga, Charles Bernstein, Cesar Pavese, Anita Naegeli, Carol Novack, Kerri Sonnenberg, K. Silem Mohammad, Ken Haponek, Tony Towle, Clayton Eshleman, Michael Robins, Ron Silliman, Steve Halle, Chuck Stebelton, Philippe Soupault, Terence Winch, Changming Yuan, Yamamoto Kansuke, AMONG MANY OTHERS . Thanks for reading. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chan_jt Wed Jan 9 00:34:33 2008 From: chan_jt (JT Chan) Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2008 05:34:33 +0000 Subject: [New-Poetry] Call for submissions Message-ID: Numinous:Spiritual Poetry, a new literary e-zine to be launched in June 2008. We publish all kinds of poems of a spiritual nature. Submissions now open. Send your original, previously unpublished poems and a short bio to numinousmagazine at yahoo.com Thank you. regards J Chan editor http://numinousmagazine.wordpress.com _________________________________________________________________ Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini Wed Jan 9 06:26:54 2008 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2008 12:26:54 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] papers Message-ID: <001c01c852b2$8a0970f0$05c93a52@ANNY> CALL for PAPERS INTERNATIONAL CONFERENCE Transatlantic Encounters: American Studies in the 21st Century University of L?dz, Poland 6 - 8 September 2008 We are pleased to announce an upcoming international conference, entitled "Transatlantic Encounters: American Studies in the 21st Century" to be held September 6-8, 2008 in Lodz, Poland. The conference is organized in celebration of the 15th anniversary of the establishment of the Department of American Studies and Mass Media at the University of Lodz. The conference will offer a forum for discussing issues related to American Studies as seen from the perspective of transatlantic and interdisciplinary research. We invite proposals from individual scholars as well as groups of three to five presenters on topics including, but not limited to: . media and society: film, radio, TV, the press, and the new media . multiculturalism: approaches to and representations of . globalization, regionalization, political leadership . terrorism: military and intellectual responses to . national identity, migration, and representation . popular culture and its national and international contexts . interdisciplinary American Studies/Transatlantic Studies pedagogy Key-note speakers: Emory Elliot (University of California, Riverside), Alfred Hornung (University of Mainz), Zbigniew Lewicki (Warsaw University) Deadline for the submission of title and abstract of 200-250 words and proposals for panels (350 words, including names of presenters and titles of their presentations) is April 31, 2008 Please submit abstracts electronically or by mail to the following address: TRANS 2008 Department of American Studies and Mass Media University of Lodz Skladowa 41/43, 90-127 Lodz, Poland E-mail address: specamer at uni.lodz.pl A selection of papers will be published by Peter Lang Publishers (Germany) in American Studies and Media Series. General Editors: Elzbieta H. Oleksy and Wieslaw Oleksy. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames Wed Jan 9 09:42:34 2008 From: jforjames (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2008 09:42:34 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] MO Laureate Named Message-ID: <8CA20E5015547B8-1644-3221@FWM-M07.sysops.aol.com> http://www.kansascity.com/105/story/436624.html Missouri names its first poet laureate By JOHN MARK EBERHART The Kansas City Star Bargen Walter Bargen ? a poet at home with writing in almost any style, from rural reveries to enigmatic surrealism ? is the first poet laureate of Missouri. His books include The Feast, in which some of the speakers, trapped in isolation, take on the persona of the biblical Jonah in the belly of the fish. In other works, such as the poem ?Office of Forgetting,? he is content to evoke nature, or the Midwestern seasons. ________________________________________________________________________ More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://webmail.aol.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames Wed Jan 9 09:45:10 2008 From: jforjames (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2008 09:45:10 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] mere poet Message-ID: <8CA20E55E5A0CE2-1644-324E@FWM-M07.sysops.aol.com> http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/richard_morrison/article3153531.ece >From The Times January 9, 2008 The master of the doubts and dreads that afflict us allRichardMorrison I hesitate to imagine what might have been Philip Larkin?s reaction to being declared ?the Greatest British Writer since 1945? by The Times, ahead of such distinguished quill-wielders as Orwell, Amis (the Older and Younger), Tolkien and even the all-conquering J. K. Rowling. Something between a grunt and a grimace, I would guess. But the reaction from other quarters of the literary world has been chilly: a mixture of surprise, disdain and indignation. Surprise that our literary editor, Erica Wagner, should award top spot in her list of postwar greats to a ?mere? poet ? ________________________________________________________________________ More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://webmail.aol.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini Wed Jan 9 14:31:48 2008 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2008 20:31:48 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] a question Message-ID: <008001c852f6$4726b290$cb3e014f@ANNY> Is there anybody who can recognize the fat blond guy who is interviewed right at the beginning of Jonas Mekas' film? http://www.ubu.com/film/mekas_ginsberg.html thank you, I thought I should work on it and I thought I had to know who that person is, I think I think too much... Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From peter.joseph.gloviczki Wed Jan 9 17:23:14 2008 From: peter.joseph.gloviczki (Peter Joseph Gloviczki) Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2008 16:23:14 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] A Short Political Poem Message-ID: Hello everyone! I'm new to the list and I thought I'd post a short political poem, since it does seem to be that time of the season, again. Feel free to comment :) Best, Peter *Aural Politics* I only listen to campaign speeches convened by falling confetti itself. If, in the act of the celebratory dive, the confetti makes a concerted effort to speak directly to me, then maybe. But this recliner feels better than skin & that noise is just hurrahs bookended by eighties music, illusions of warmth in an otherwise dull, crowded auditorium. Can't you hear old ticker-tape, snickering? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd Thu Jan 10 01:42:25 2008 From: grahamd (David Graham) Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 00:42:25 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Philip Levine Message-ID: Philip Levine turns 80 years old today. Some poets I can think of as old, but not Levine. One of the great poets of our time, I feel. When, as part of my application for grad school back in the 1970s, I had to write an essay about a poet who was influential on me, Levine's *1933* was the book I wrote about. It still strikes me as one of his best, which is to say one of the best of his generation. Ed Byrne's got a nice tribute on his blog: http://edwardbyrne.blogspot.com/ ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/About%20Me.html Poetry Library: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mandolin Thu Jan 10 10:41:00 2008 From: mandolin (Michael Snider) Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 10:41:00 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] mere poet In-Reply-To: <8CA20E55E5A0CE2-1644-324E@FWM-M07.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CA20E55E5A0CE2-1644-324E@FWM-M07.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <8F2FF8CC-F500-454F-A102-A19A67B61A8F@mac.com> Here's the original annoncement -- http://entertainment.timesonline.co.uk/tol/arts_and_entertainment/books/article3083819.ece?print=yes&randnum=1199935422837 I think they may be right. On Jan 9, 2008, at 9:45 AM, JforJames at aol.com wrote: > http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/richard_morrison/article3153531.ece > >From The Times > January 9, 2008 > The master of the doubts and dreads that afflict us allRichardMorrison > > I hesitate to imagine what might have been Philip Larkin?s reaction > to being declared ?the Greatest British Writer since 1945? by The > Times, ahead of such distinguished quill-wielders as Orwell, Amis > (the Older and Younger), Tolkien and even the all-conquering J. K. > Rowling. Something between a grunt and a grimace, I would guess. > > But the reaction from other quarters of the literary world has been > chilly: a mixture of surprise, disdain and indignation. Surprise > that our literary editor, Erica Wagner, should award top spot in her > list of postwar greats to a ?mere? poet ? > More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail! > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From grahamd Thu Jan 10 12:21:49 2008 From: grahamd (David Graham) Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 11:21:49 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Levine Message-ID: <06035CBF-7750-400D-B0B8-1801103817B6@ripon.edu> Every Blessed Day First with a glass of water tasting of iron and then with more and colder water over his head he gasps himself awake. He hears the cheep of winter birds searching the snow for crumbs of garbage and knows exactly how much light and how much darkness is there before the dawn, gray and weak, slips between the buildings. Closing the door behind him, he thinks of places he has never seen but heard about, of the great desert his father said was like no sea he had ever crossed and how at dusk or dawn it held all the shades of red and blue in its merging shadows, and though his life was then a prison he had come to live for these suspended moments. Waiting at the corner he feels the cold at his back and stamps himself awake again. seven miles from the frozen, narrow river. Even before he looks, he knows the faces on the bus, some going to work and some coming back, but each sealed in its hunger for a different life, a lost life. Where he's going or who he is he doesn't ask himself, he doesn't know and doesn't know it matters. He gets off at the familiar corner, crosses the emptying parking lots toward Chevy Gear & Axle # 3. In a few minutes he will hold his time card above a clock, and he can drop it in and hear the moment crunching down, or he can not, for either way the day will last forever. So he lets it fall. If he feels the elusive calm his father spoke of and searched for all his short life, there's no way of telling, for now he's laughing among them, older men and kids. He's saying, "Damn, we've got it made." He's lighting up or chewing with the others, thousands of miles from their forgotten homes, each and every one his father's son. --Philip Levine. What Work Is. Knopf, 1991. ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/About%20Me.html Poetry Library: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini Thu Jan 10 12:29:46 2008 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 18:29:46 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Levine References: <06035CBF-7750-400D-B0B8-1801103817B6@ripon.edu> Message-ID: <002e01c853ae$65598680$e7ee3652@ANNY> A great poem. As probably almost all by Levine. I share your enthusiasm. ----- Original Message ----- From: David Graham To: NewPoetry & Views Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2008 6:21 PM Subject: [New-Poetry] Levine Every Blessed Day First with a glass of water tasting of iron and then with more and colder water over his head he gasps himself awake. He hears the cheep of winter birds searching the snow for crumbs of garbage and knows exactly how much light and how much darkness is there before the dawn, gray and weak, slips between the buildings. Closing the door behind him, he thinks of places he has never seen but heard about, of the great desert his father said was like no sea he had ever crossed and how at dusk or dawn it held all the shades of red and blue in its merging shadows, and though his life was then a prison he had come to live for these suspended moments. Waiting at the corner he feels the cold at his back and stamps himself awake again. seven miles from the frozen, narrow river. Even before he looks, he knows the faces on the bus, some going to work and some coming back, but each sealed in its hunger for a different life, a lost life. Where he's going or who he is he doesn't ask himself, he doesn't know and doesn't know it matters. He gets off at the familiar corner, crosses the emptying parking lots toward Chevy Gear & Axle # 3. In a few minutes he will hold his time card above a clock, and he can drop it in and hear the moment crunching down, or he can not, for either way the day will last forever. So he lets it fall. If he feels the elusive calm his father spoke of and searched for all his short life, there's no way of telling, for now he's laughing among them, older men and kids. He's saying, "Damn, we've got it made." He's lighting up or chewing with the others, thousands of miles from their forgotten homes, each and every one his father's son. --Philip Levine. What Work Is. Knopf, 1991. ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/About%20Me.html Poetry Library: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jeff.newberry Thu Jan 10 12:50:29 2008 From: jeff.newberry (Jeff Newberry) Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 12:50:29 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] A Short Political Poem In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <731bb17a0801100950s2bd0133o2047465306a9369e@mail.gmail.com> I like the way that "ticker tape" and "snickering" sound together. I'd like it better as just "snicker," though, methinks. Welcome aboard, & thanks for posting. best, Jeff Newberry On Jan 9, 2008 5:23 PM, Peter Joseph Gloviczki < peter.joseph.gloviczki at gmail.com> wrote: > Hello everyone! > > I'm new to the list and I thought I'd post a short political poem, since > it does seem to be that time of the season, again. Feel free to comment :) > > Best, Peter > > < http://wmfr.blogspot.com> > > > *Aural Politics* > > I only listen to campaign speeches > > convened by falling confetti itself. > > If, in the act of the celebratory dive, > > the confetti makes a concerted effort > > to speak directly to me, then maybe. > > But this recliner feels better than skin > > & that noise is just hurrahs bookended > > by eighties music, illusions of warmth > > in an otherwise dull, crowded auditorium. > > Can't you hear old ticker-tape, snickering? > > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- "Memory believes before knowing remembers. Believes longer than recollects, longer than knowing even wonders." ?William Faulkner, Light in August http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard Thu Jan 10 13:20:09 2008 From: halvard (Halvard Johnson) Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 12:20:09 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Obama Variations In-Reply-To: <731bb17a0801100950s2bd0133o2047465306a9369e@mail.gmail.com> References: <731bb17a0801100950s2bd0133o2047465306a9369e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Obama Variations "The time for change has come." 1. The time for come has changed. The come for time has changed. For change the come has timed. The has come time for change. For time has come the change. The change for time has come. The come for change has time. The time for has come changed. The change for come has timed. The come for change has timed. The for change time has comed. The come for has changed time. 2. Obama Obama O bama Obama Oba ma Obama Obam a Obama Obama Obama Obama O 3. Time changed has for come the. Comed has time change for the. Timed has change for come the. Timed has come for change the. Changed come has for time the. Time has change for come the. Come has time for change the. Change the come has time for. Change for time come has the. Timed has come the change for. Changed has time for come the. Changed has come for time the. 4. O amabO amabO amabO amabO mabO amabO am abO amabO amab O amabO amabO 5. The time for change has come time for change has come the for change has come the time change has come the time for has come the time for change come the time for change has the time for change has come 6. O b a m a O b a m a O b a m a O b a m a O b a m a O b a m a O b a m a O 7. The time for change has come. The time for come has not changed. The time for change has not come. The change for time has come The come for change has not timed. The time for change has come. The time for change has come and gone. And come. And gone. And "I see my path but I do not know where it leads. Not knowing where I am going is what inspires me to travel." --Rosal?a de Castro Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini Thu Jan 10 13:21:05 2008 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 19:21:05 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Art and roundabouts Message-ID: <004601c853b5$90619780$e7ee3652@ANNY> Chirot sent the following link to the Buffalo, thought it might be of interest to you as it was to me: http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/10/arts/design/10chan.html -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini Thu Jan 10 13:23:14 2008 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 19:23:14 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Obama Variations References: <731bb17a0801100950s2bd0133o2047465306a9369e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <006401c853b5$ddb323f0$e7ee3652@ANNY> you mean the coma I love the vocalic chant, what would I give to see you perform it ----- Original Message ----- From: Halvard Johnson To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2008 7:20 PM Subject: [New-Poetry] Obama Variations Obama Variations "The time for change has come." 1. The time for come has changed. The come for time has changed. For change the come has timed. The has come time for change. For time has come the change. The change for time has come. The come for change has time. The time for has come changed. The change for come has timed. The come for change has timed. The for change time has comed. The come for has changed time. 2. Obama Obama O bama Obama Oba ma Obama Obam a Obama Obama Obama Obama O 3. Time changed has for come the. Comed has time change for the. Timed has change for come the. Timed has come for change the. Changed come has for time the. Time has change for come the. Come has time for change the. Change the come has time for. Change for time come has the. Timed has come the change for. Changed has time for come the. Changed has come for time the. 4. O amabO amabO amabO amabO mabO amabO am abO amabO amab O amabO amabO 5. The time for change has come time for change has come the for change has come the time change has come the time for has come the time for change come the time for change has the time for change has come 6. O b a m a O b a m a O b a m a O b a m a O b a m a O b a m a O b a m a O 7. The time for change has come. The time for come has not changed. The time for change has not come. The change for time has come The come for change has not timed. The time for change has come. The time for change has come and gone. And come. And gone. And "I see my path but I do not know where it leads. Not knowing where I am going is what inspires me to travel." --Rosal?a de Castro Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini Thu Jan 10 15:54:18 2008 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 21:54:18 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] sort of bursting with delight - Message-ID: <00fc01c853ca$f851f8c0$e7ee3652@ANNY> Lidia Vianu in her workshop with her MA students in translation chose my poem Someone else. I am boasting and twittering happily in many different versions in Romanian! Scroll down past what is written on top to the TRANSLATION CAFE': http://www.escoala.ro/ctitc/translation_cafe_anny_ballardini.html -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames Thu Jan 10 19:58:56 2008 From: jforjames (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 19:58:56 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Yevtushenko & Oxford Message-ID: <8CA220446F67931-1038-4114@webmail-da20.sysops.aol.com> http://www.prospect-magazine.co.uk/article_details.php?id=9970 January 2008 | 142 ? My story ? Oxford's poetry revolution? Forty years ago, inspired by the 1968 revolts in Paris, I tried to get the glamorous Russian poet Yevgeny Yevtushenko elected as Oxford's professor of poetry. Though our campaign failed, it somehow managed to suck in all the cultural currents of the time Bernard Wasserstein -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ? Bernard Wasserstein is professor of history at the University of Chicago Click here to discuss this article at First Drafts, Prospect's blog Occasionally an event, in itself trivial, captures the essence of a historical moment: the Boston tea party, the first performance of The Rite of Spring, the incarceration of Paris Hilton. In England, such episodes often take place in Oxford: John Henry Newman?s passage from Anglicanism to Rome in the 1840s; the king and country debate at the Union in 1933; the dons? rejection of Margaret Thatcher for an honorary degree in 1985. ________________________________________________________________________ More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://webmail.aol.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From roxy533 Thu Jan 10 22:20:07 2008 From: roxy533 (Roxanne Hoffman) Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 19:20:07 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] Call For Submission: Bug Related Poetry Message-ID: <376809.81828.qm@web39608.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Poets and Writers; Poets Wear Prada - Hoboken, NJ is looking for BUG-related Poetry (in any style)for an anthology due out Winter 2008/2009. Flash fiction, line drawings and cartoons will also be considered. For submission policy and for a sneak preview of already accepted submissions please visit our blogspot: http://poetswearprada.home.att.net Roxanne Hoffman Publisher/Editor Poets Wear Prada Hoboken, NJ *** POETS WEAR PRADA C/O Roxanne Hoffman 533 Bloomfield Street 2nd Floor Hoboken, NJ 07030 http://poetswearpradanj.home.att.net POETS WEAR PRADA is a small press based in Hoboken, New Jersey devoted to introducing new authors through limited edition, high- quality chaplets, primarily of poetry 'New press, great authors, a publisher who is one miracle short of sainthood.' - Angelo Verga, Poetry Curator of The Cornelia Street Cafe 'Poets Wear Prada is a poetry publishing house with excellent poets and affordable books with beautiful covers. Have you had your poetry today?' - Meredith Sue Willis, Books for Readers 'Stylistically, these beautifully designed and produced chaplets bear their own distinctive signature. - Linda Lerner, Small Press Review" Proud Member of the Council of Literary Magazines & Presses *** join our yahoo group at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/poetswearprada/ and become our friend on myspace at: http://www.myspace.com/poetswearprada From roxy533 Thu Jan 10 22:22:51 2008 From: roxy533 (Roxanne Hoffman) Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 19:22:51 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] Call for Submissions: Bug-Related Poetry (note corrected blogspot address) Message-ID: <19417.62186.qm@web39615.mail.mud.yahoo.com> NOte: Previous email had incorrect address for our blogspot. My apologies. Poets and Writers; Poets Wear Prada - Hoboken, NJ is looking for BUG-related Poetry (in any style)for an anthology due out Winter 2008/2009. Flash fiction, line drawings and cartoons will also be considered. For submission policy and for a sneak preview of already accepted submissions please visit our blogspot: http://poetswearprada.blogspot.com Roxanne Hoffman Publisher/Editor Poets Wear Prada Hoboken, NJ *** POETS WEAR PRADA C/O Roxanne Hoffman 533 Bloomfield Street 2nd Floor Hoboken, NJ 07030 http://poetswearpradanj.home.att.net POETS WEAR PRADA is a small press based in Hoboken, New Jersey devoted to introducing new authors through limited edition, high- quality chaplets, primarily of poetry 'New press, great authors, a publisher who is one miracle short of sainthood.' - Angelo Verga, Poetry Curator of The Cornelia Street Cafe 'Poets Wear Prada is a poetry publishing house with excellent poets and affordable books with beautiful covers. Have you had your poetry today?' - Meredith Sue Willis, Books for Readers 'Stylistically, these beautifully designed and produced chaplets bear their own distinctive signature. - Linda Lerner, Small Press Review" Proud Member of the Council of Literary Magazines & Presses *** join our yahoo group at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/poetswearprada/ and become our friend on myspace at: http://www.myspace.com/poetswearprada From anny.ballardini Fri Jan 11 15:49:51 2008 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2008 21:49:51 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Han Shan Te'-ch'ing on whiskey river Message-ID: <002f01c85493$83351940$9baa3852@ANNY> 1. Snow besieges my plank door I crowd the stove at night although this form exists it seems as if it doesn't I have no idea where the months have gone every time I turn around another year on earth is over 2. Bone-chilling snow on a thousand peaks wild raging wind from ten thousand hollows when I first awake deep beneath my blanket I forget my body is in a silent void 3. The mountains stand unmoving just the way they are all day they let the clouds roll out and roll back in even though red dust is countless layers deep not a single speck reaches my thatched hut - Han Shan Te'-ch'ing found on whiskey river: http://whiskeyriver.blogspot.com/2008/01/1.html -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Opus40-01 Sat Jan 12 13:37:25 2008 From: Opus40-01 (TheOldMole) Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2008 13:37:25 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetry beats out plays Message-ID: <478908E5.7080201@opus40.org> NEA report; According to the survey, the most popular types of literature are novels or short stories, which were read by 45 percent or 93 million adults in the previous year. Poetry was read by 12 percent or 25 million people, while just 4 percent or seven million people reported having read a play. -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ The moral is this: in American verse, The better you are, the pay is worse. --Corey Ford From barry.spacks Sat Jan 12 13:37:58 2008 From: barry.spacks (Barry Spacks) Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2008 10:37:58 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Chinese word-magic In-Reply-To: <200801121700.m0CH042f027753@wiz.cath.vt.edu> References: <200801121700.m0CH042f027753@wiz.cath.vt.edu> Message-ID: On Jan 12, 2008, at 9:00 AM, Anny Ballardini offered: > a Han Shan Te'-ch'ing poem > > the Chinese masters are great teachers in these days of scruffy > practice wanted to share a new piece by a lurker on our list, Ted Macker (hope this presumption is okay with you, Ted): TRAIN Just where the grass meets the woods an old rabbit hutch has fallen over. Nothing inside it now but the whistle of the southbound train. > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From peter.joseph.gloviczki Sat Jan 12 13:44:56 2008 From: peter.joseph.gloviczki (Peter Joseph Gloviczki) Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2008 12:44:56 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetry beats out plays In-Reply-To: <478908E5.7080201@opus40.org> References: <478908E5.7080201@opus40.org> Message-ID: Interesting, Tad. I wonder how many of the people who had read plays were/are also actors? The practice of reading plays often seems to be relegated to middle school English, which is a shame. Peter On Jan 12, 2008 12:37 PM, TheOldMole wrote: > NEA report; According to the survey, the most popular types of > literature are novels or short stories, which were read by 45 percent or > 93 million adults in the previous year. Poetry was read by 12 percent or > 25 million people, while just 4 percent or seven million people reported > having read a play. > > -- > Tad Richards > http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ > http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ > > The moral is this: in American verse, > The better you are, the pay is worse. > --Corey Ford > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > From Opus40-01 Sat Jan 12 14:40:36 2008 From: Opus40-01 (TheOldMole) Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2008 14:40:36 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetry beats out plays In-Reply-To: References: <478908E5.7080201@opus40.org> Message-ID: <478917B4.9060608@opus40.org> Trying to remember the last time I read a play, not counting Shakespeare. Wait...it wasn't so long ago. Last year -- or maybe 2006 -- I read a couple of Stoppard's plays. They were wonderful. Peter Joseph Gloviczki wrote: > Interesting, Tad. I wonder how many of the people who had read plays > were/are also actors? The practice of reading plays often seems to be > relegated to middle school English, which is a shame. > > Peter > > On Jan 12, 2008 12:37 PM, TheOldMole wrote: > >> NEA report; According to the survey, the most popular types of >> literature are novels or short stories, which were read by 45 percent or >> 93 million adults in the previous year. Poetry was read by 12 percent or >> 25 million people, while just 4 percent or seven million people reported >> having read a play. >> >> -- >> Tad Richards >> http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ >> http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ >> >> The moral is this: in American verse, >> The better you are, the pay is worse. >> --Corey Ford >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ The moral is this: in American verse, The better you are, the pay is worse. --Corey Ford From peter.joseph.gloviczki Sat Jan 12 18:15:20 2008 From: peter.joseph.gloviczki (Peter Joseph Gloviczki) Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2008 17:15:20 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetry beats out plays In-Reply-To: <478917B4.9060608@opus40.org> References: <478908E5.7080201@opus40.org> <478917B4.9060608@opus40.org> Message-ID: Yeah, I also really like Neil Labute's recent plays -- in case anyone is interested in getting into the genre. The Shape of Things and Laramie Project are good reads. Peter On Jan 12, 2008 1:40 PM, TheOldMole wrote: > Trying to remember the last time I read a play, not counting > Shakespeare. Wait...it wasn't so long ago. Last year -- or maybe 2006 -- > I read a couple of Stoppard's plays. They were wonderful. > > > Peter Joseph Gloviczki wrote: > > Interesting, Tad. I wonder how many of the people who had read plays > > were/are also actors? The practice of reading plays often seems to be > > relegated to middle school English, which is a shame. > > > > Peter > > > > On Jan 12, 2008 12:37 PM, TheOldMole wrote: > > > >> NEA report; According to the survey, the most popular types of > >> literature are novels or short stories, which were read by 45 percent or > >> 93 million adults in the previous year. Poetry was read by 12 percent or > >> 25 million people, while just 4 percent or seven million people reported > >> having read a play. > >> > >> -- > >> Tad Richards > >> http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ > >> http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ > >> > >> The moral is this: in American verse, > >> The better you are, the pay is worse. > >> --Corey Ford > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> New-Poetry mailing list > >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > >> > >> > > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > > -- > > Tad Richards > http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ > http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ > > The moral is this: in American verse, > The better you are, the pay is worse. > --Corey Ford > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > From anny.ballardini Sun Jan 13 17:00:44 2008 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2008 23:00:44 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetry beats out plays References: <478908E5.7080201@opus40.org> <478917B4.9060608@opus40.org> Message-ID: <001b01c8562f$bf0c11b0$32eb3652@ANNY> Hopefully nobody is sick round here? You're all well? ----- Original Message ----- From: "TheOldMole" To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views" Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2008 8:40 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Poetry beats out plays > Trying to remember the last time I read a play, not counting Shakespeare. > Wait...it wasn't so long ago. Last year -- or maybe 2006 -- > I read a couple of Stoppard's plays. They were wonderful. > > Peter Joseph Gloviczki wrote: >> Interesting, Tad. I wonder how many of the people who had read plays >> were/are also actors? The practice of reading plays often seems to be >> relegated to middle school English, which is a shame. >> >> Peter >> >> On Jan 12, 2008 12:37 PM, TheOldMole wrote: >> >>> NEA report; According to the survey, the most popular types of >>> literature are novels or short stories, which were read by 45 percent or >>> 93 million adults in the previous year. Poetry was read by 12 percent or >>> 25 million people, while just 4 percent or seven million people reported >>> having read a play. >>> >>> -- >>> Tad Richards >>> http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ >>> http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ >>> >>> The moral is this: in American verse, >>> The better you are, the pay is worse. >>> --Corey Ford >>> From majenamafe Sun Jan 13 17:06:33 2008 From: majenamafe (Majena Mafe) Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 08:06:33 +1000 Subject: [New-Poetry] RE: new blog for XXperimental writing/media and the un-sound In-Reply-To: <200801121700.m0CH042h027753@wiz.cath.vt.edu> Message-ID: <6hfqa5$2k6tov@smtp05.syd.primusonline.com.au> Hi all, thought I'd let you know about a new blog I have set up called that-unsound http://that-unsound.blogspot.com/ It's aim is to be a portal for examples, info, writings and research on 'sounded' and 'soundings' in language, experimental writing and new media. I'm interested in correlations between sounded oralities and the perverse as a possible point of departure for new work/ideas, particularly in 'women's' experimental/ innovative/ecriture/language frames (that 'allow' just that bit extra).but all work fits under the skirt. Majena Mafe http://that-unsound.blogspot.com http://majenamafe.com "Generally speaking anybody is more interesting doing nothing than doing anything." Gertrude Stein -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames Sun Jan 13 20:53:56 2008 From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2008 20:53:56 EST Subject: [New-Poetry] Shelley under the spotlight Message-ID: _http://www.theage.com.au/news/books/romancing-the-truth-on-poet-percy/2008/01 /11/1199988555286.html_ (http://www.theage.com.au/news/books/romancing-the-truth-on-poet-percy/2008/01/11/1199988555286.html) Romancing the truth on poet Percy Email Printer friendly version Normal font Large font January 12, 2008 Page 1 of 2 | Single page A new life of Percy Bysshe Shelley draws several long bows in reaching its conclusions about the great Romantic poet, laments Lisa Gorton. THERE IS AN ODDITY, IN any case, about the biography of a writer. The major event of a writer's life is the work, and the work remains. A study of the life, therefore, depends to a large extent upon interpretations of the work. **************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape. http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames Sun Jan 13 20:57:44 2008 From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2008 20:57:44 EST Subject: [New-Poetry] Nat'l Book Critics Nominations Message-ID: _http://bookcriticscircle.blogspot.com/_ (http://bookcriticscircle.blogspot.com/) Poetry nods to the international scene include books by poet Tadeusz Rozewicz (New Poems, Archipelago), with other finalists including Mary Jo Bang (Elegy, Graywolf) and Michael O?Brien (Sleeping and Waking, Flood). Poetry Mary Jo Bang, Elegy, Graywolf Matthea Harvey, Modern Life, Graywolf Michael O'Brien, Sleeping and Waking, Flood Tom Pickard, The Ballad of Jamie Allan, Flood Tadeusz Rozewicz, New Poems, Archipelago **************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape. http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames Mon Jan 14 09:40:01 2008 From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 09:40:01 EST Subject: [New-Poetry] Melville: The Making of the Poet by Hershel Parker Message-ID: _http://www.calendarlive.com/books/bookreview/cl-bk-faggen13jan13,0,4226626.st ory?coll=cl-books-features_ (http://www.calendarlive.com/books/bookreview/cl-bk-faggen13jan13,0,4226626.story?coll=cl-books-features) January 13, 2008 E-mail story Print Most E-Mailed 'Melville: The Making of the Poet' by Hershel Parker The great American author didn't write poetry by accident, Parker argues, but entirely by plan. By Robert Faggen Melville The Making of the Poet ADVERTISEMENT Hershel Parker Northwestern University Press: 240 pp., $32.95 He effectively demolishes the first part of Kazin's assertion that "poetry was just a sideline . . . it was never important to him." He points out that Melville spent at least three decades writing only in verse, much more time than he ever spent writing prose-fiction. Parker does painstaking work to show just how immersed Melville was in reading and writing verse from as early as the 1850s. The great trail Melville left behind is not so much his letters as his remarkable marginalia. NYU film scholar Jay Leyda did a great service by publishing "The Melville Log," a kind of sourcebook of Melville's life; a graduate dissertation at Harvard also undertook a full accounting of Melville's known marginalia. **************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape. http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman Mon Jan 14 12:10:18 2008 From: bobgrumman (Bob Grumman) Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 12:10:18 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Nat'l Book Critics Nominations In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <478B977A.8010409@nut-n-but.net> I thought I'd post a yawn to the NBCC poetry nominations to help reassure Anny, who's worried about us, that at least some of us are still around and the same as ever. --Bob JforJames at aol.com wrote: > http://bookcriticscircle.blogspot.com/ > > Poetry nods to the international scene include books by poet Tadeusz > Rozewicz (New Poems, Archipelago), with other finalists including Mary > Jo Bang (Elegy, Graywolf) and Michael O?Brien (Sleeping and Waking, > Flood). > > Poetry > Mary Jo Bang, Elegy, Graywolf > Matthea Harvey, Modern Life, Graywolf > Michael O'Brien, Sleeping and Waking, Flood > Tom Pickard, The Ballad of Jamie Allan, Flood > Tadeusz Rozewicz, New Poems, Archipelago > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape > > in the new year. > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd Mon Jan 14 12:20:11 2008 From: grahamd (David Graham) Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 11:20:11 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Nat'l Book Critics Nominations In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5504F018-91E9-4EF5-A5C5-23FBE8090E27@ripon.edu> Once again I am struck by the fact that I have not read a single one of the nominated books. One poet (Michael O'Brien) I don't think I've ever heard of. Anyone know his work? As I've not met many people who read *more* contemporary poetry than I do, this seems further evidence that there really isn't anyone who could "keep up" with the field, practically speaking. Interesting implications of this fact can be imagined. . . . Certainly an oddity of the current lineup is that Graywolf and Flood both score two nominations. ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/About%20Me.html Poetry Library: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== On Jan 13, 2008, at 7:57 PM, JforJames at aol.com wrote: > http://bookcriticscircle.blogspot.com/ > > Poetry nods to the international scene include books by poet > Tadeusz Rozewicz (New Poems, Archipelago), with other finalists > including Mary Jo Bang (Elegy, Graywolf) and Michael O?Brien > (Sleeping and Waking, Flood). > > Poetry > Mary Jo Bang, Elegy, Graywolf > Matthea Harvey, Modern Life, Graywolf > Michael O'Brien, Sleeping and Waking, Flood > Tom Pickard, The Ballad of Jamie Allan, Flood > Tadeusz Rozewicz, New Poems, Archipelago > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini Mon Jan 14 12:20:36 2008 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 18:20:36 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Nat'l Book Critics Nominations References: <478B977A.8010409@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <003601c856d1$c782f0a0$24de3052@ANNY> Here's my Bob! Talking of being bored, I know this is fluxus I know this is Nam June Paik, I know tha tI know and then I even know better and I might try to write something impressive on it, still, if you have the possiblity click here: http://www.ubu.com/film/paik.html ----- Original Message ----- From: Bob Grumman To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views Sent: Monday, January 14, 2008 6:10 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Nat'l Book Critics Nominations I thought I'd post a yawn to the NBCC poetry nominations to help reassure Anny, who's worried about us, that at least some of us are still around and the same as ever. --Bob JforJames at aol.com wrote: http://bookcriticscircle.blogspot.com/ Poetry nods to the international scene include books by poet Tadeusz Rozewicz (New Poems, Archipelago), with other finalists including Mary Jo Bang (Elegy, Graywolf) and Michael O?Brien (Sleeping and Waking, Flood). Poetry Mary Jo Bang, Elegy, Graywolf Matthea Harvey, Modern Life, Graywolf Michael O'Brien, Sleeping and Waking, Flood Tom Pickard, The Ballad of Jamie Allan, Flood Tadeusz Rozewicz, New Poems, Archipelago ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape in the new year. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From AlMaginnes Mon Jan 14 12:47:06 2008 From: AlMaginnes (AlMaginnes at aol.com) Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 12:47:06 EST Subject: [New-Poetry] Nat'l Book Critics Nominations Message-ID: I haven't read any of them either. I did read a review a while back claiming that Michael O'Brien was the greatest poet since Hank Williams, but the excerpts posted there didn't do much for me. And like you, David, I don't know many people who read more poetry, contemporary or otherwise, than I do. **************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape. http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From peter.joseph.gloviczki Mon Jan 14 12:59:10 2008 From: peter.joseph.gloviczki (Peter Joseph Gloviczki) Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 11:59:10 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Nat'l Book Critics Nominations In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I've liked what I've read by Mary Jo Bang and Matthea Harvey, but I'm somewhat comforted to know that I'm not the only one wondering about these selections. I'm honestly not familiar with the other nominees' work. That doesn't mean much, of course, but it is surprising in a way. Can anyone fill me in on poems I should read by these other authors? Thanks, Peter On Jan 14, 2008 11:47 AM, wrote: > I haven't read any of them either. I did read a review a while back > claiming that Michael O'Brien was the greatest poet since Hank Williams, but > the excerpts posted there didn't do much for me. And like you, David, I > don't know many people who read more poetry, contemporary or otherwise, than > I do. > > > > > > ------------------------------ > Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shapein the new year. > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd Mon Jan 14 12:59:30 2008 From: grahamd (David Graham) Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 11:59:30 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Nat'l Book Critics Nominations In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <9CEA3E0C-E63F-4668-8782-EC7D865175D3@ripon.edu> O'Brien, so sayeth Google, was born in 1939, and has published a buncha books. Review from the Times of the nominated collection: http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/09/books/review/Orr4-t.html? _r=2&oref=slogin&oref=slogin I can't find any O'Brien poems online, not at least in the first several Google pages. There are, needless to say, a *lot* of Michael O'Brien's out there. . . . ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/About%20Me.html Poetry Library: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== On Jan 14, 2008, at 11:47 AM, AlMaginnes at aol.com wrote: > I haven't read any of them either. I did read a review a while back > claiming that Michael O'Brien was the greatest poet since Hank > Williams, but the excerpts posted there didn't do much for me. And > like you, David, I don't know many people who read more poetry, > contemporary or otherwise, than I do. > > > > > > Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape in the new year. > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd Mon Jan 14 13:06:38 2008 From: grahamd (David Graham) Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 12:06:38 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] More on Michael O'Brien Message-ID: <14D03481-07EB-4A3F-968D-6C78ACDE0C67@ripon.edu> I see from Amazon that MO's book is not in print. Amazon will sell you a used copy for US$132.76, though. Something tells me that the book will soon be reprinted. . . . Mini-review from the Boston *Phoenix* by William Corbett: MICHAEL O?BRIEN?s SLEEPING AND WAKING (Flood Editions, 80 pages, $12.95, paper) is the most alert book of poems I have read in some time, both alert-eyed and alert to street speech and the weights and measures of words. His turf is Manhattan?s West 20s, but in whatever locale he finds himself, like Thoreau in Concord, he travels a good deal. His poems, often set in short sequences, are as spare and subtle as those of any American poet writing today. At 68 years old, O?Brien already has many self-published books, and has translated poems from a number of languages. Now, the splendid Floor Editions has given him the well-made book he deserves. His poetry is first-rate. ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/About%20Me.html Poetry Library: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini Mon Jan 14 13:16:05 2008 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 19:16:05 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] More on Michael O'Brien References: <14D03481-07EB-4A3F-968D-6C78ACDE0C67@ripon.edu> Message-ID: <003001c856d9$8748db50$24de3052@ANNY> He seems very interesting to me. ----- Original Message ----- From: David Graham To: NewPoetry & Views Sent: Monday, January 14, 2008 7:06 PM Subject: [New-Poetry] More on Michael O'Brien I see from Amazon that MO's book is not in print. Amazon will sell you a used copy for US$132.76, though. Something tells me that the book will soon be reprinted. . . . Mini-review from the Boston *Phoenix* by William Corbett: MICHAEL O?BRIEN?s SLEEPING AND WAKING (Flood Editions, 80 pages, $12.95, paper) is the most alert book of poems I have read in some time, both alert-eyed and alert to street speech and the weights and measures of words. His turf is Manhattan?s West 20s, but in whatever locale he finds himself, like Thoreau in Concord, he travels a good deal. His poems, often set in short sequences, are as spare and subtle as those of any American poet writing today. At 68 years old, O?Brien already has many self-published books, and has translated poems from a number of languages. Now, the splendid Floor Editions has given him the well-made book he deserves. His poetry is first-rate. ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/About%20Me.html Poetry Library: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini Mon Jan 14 13:57:18 2008 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 19:57:18 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Nat'l Book Critics Nominations References: <478B977A.8010409@nut-n-but.net> <003601c856d1$c782f0a0$24de3052@ANNY> Message-ID: <005201c856df$49799660$24de3052@ANNY> my momentary product: Nam June Paik (1932-2006) http://www.ubu.com/film/paik.html 01: Nam June Paik ? Zen For Films (1962-64) uncorrupted metaphysical screen white on black rectangle inside a rectangle immobile the screen is a screen the screen reproduced on the same screen Derek Jarman?s Blue is spoken you can see his life unfolding his visual voice leading the nostalgic thickness of cobalt blue Nam June Paik?s lack of soundtrack freezes in expectation an imploded Zen _but Zen can't be exploded_ or forced Zen is Zen Kitasono Katue?s Monotonous Space breaks its fixed pattern with other colors monotonous offers an emotional quality Paik?s soundless stillness is stoic even brilliant rhetoric from regret to a callback of neglect lack of glee tight in its lack of weight white etched in black stuck in eternal glitch caught in the net a tent clinging in vortical twirls blinding glitter blurring lines a nit without whirr in nature a twig in ether a white static wing ----- Original Message ----- From: Anny Ballardini To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views Sent: Monday, January 14, 2008 6:20 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Nat'l Book Critics Nominations Here's my Bob! Talking of being bored, I know this is fluxus I know this is Nam June Paik, I know tha tI know and then I even know better and I might try to write something impressive on it, still, if you have the possiblity click here: http://www.ubu.com/film/paik.html ----- Original Message ----- From: Bob Grumman To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views Sent: Monday, January 14, 2008 6:10 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Nat'l Book Critics Nominations I thought I'd post a yawn to the NBCC poetry nominations to help reassure Anny, who's worried about us, that at least some of us are still around and the same as ever. --Bob JforJames at aol.com wrote: http://bookcriticscircle.blogspot.com/ Poetry nods to the international scene include books by poet Tadeusz Rozewicz (New Poems, Archipelago), with other finalists including Mary Jo Bang (Elegy, Graywolf) and Michael O?Brien (Sleeping and Waking, Flood). Poetry Mary Jo Bang, Elegy, Graywolf Matthea Harvey, Modern Life, Graywolf Michael O'Brien, Sleeping and Waking, Flood Tom Pickard, The Ballad of Jamie Allan, Flood Tadeusz Rozewicz, New Poems, Archipelago -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lattaj Mon Jan 14 14:08:35 2008 From: lattaj (John Latta) Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 14:08:35 -0500 (EST) Subject: [New-Poetry] More on Michael O'Brien In-Reply-To: <14D03481-07EB-4A3F-968D-6C78ACDE0C67@ripon.edu> References: <14D03481-07EB-4A3F-968D-6C78ACDE0C67@ripon.edu> Message-ID: David, I don't trust Amazon on the smaller presses. You might try ordering it directly here. http://www.floodeditions.com/new/obrien.htm I did a tiny review of Sleeping and Waking when it first appeared, here: http://isola-di-rifiuti.blogspot.com/search?q=sleeping+waking Best, John On Mon, 14 Jan 2008, David Graham wrote: > I see from Amazon that MO's book is not in print. Amazon will sell you a > used copy for US$132.76, though. > > Something tells me that the book will soon be reprinted. . . . > > Mini-review from the Boston *Phoenix* by William Corbett: > > MICHAEL O?BRIEN?s SLEEPING AND WAKING (Flood Editions, 80 pages, $12.95, > paper) is the most alert book of poems I have read in some time, both > alert-eyed and alert to street speech and the weights and measures of words. > His turf is Manhattan?s West 20s, but in whatever locale he finds himself, > like Thoreau in Concord, he travels a good deal. His poems, often set in > short sequences, are as spare and subtle as those of any American poet > writing today. At 68 years old, O?Brien already has many self-published > books, and has translated poems from a number of languages. Now, the splendid > Floor Editions has given him the well-made book he deserves. His poetry is > first-rate. > > > > > ======================================== > David Graham > grahamd at ripon.edu > > Home Page: > http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/About%20Me.html > > Poetry Library: > http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html > ========================================== > > > From bobgrumman Mon Jan 14 14:17:36 2008 From: bobgrumman (Bob Grumman) Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 14:17:36 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Nat'l Book Critics Nominations In-Reply-To: <003601c856d1$c782f0a0$24de3052@ANNY> References: <478B977A.8010409@nut-n-but.net> <003601c856d1$c782f0a0$24de3052@ANNY> Message-ID: <478BB550.3090808@nut-n-but.net> Anny Ballardini wrote: > Here's my Bob! > Talking of being bored, I know this is fluxus I know this is Nam June > Paik, I know tha tI know and then I even know better and I might try > to write something impressive on it, still, if you have the possiblity > click here: > http://www.ubu.com/film/paik.html > Wha'd is it, Anny, th snd of 1 h clpg? Kind of funny/dopey, I thought--and a lot better in '64 than now, when stuff like it is much commoner. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From blacksox Mon Jan 14 16:28:19 2008 From: blacksox (blacksox at att.net) Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 21:28:19 +0000 Subject: [New-Poetry] NEA Report--Interesting Numbers Message-ID: <011420082128.15730.478BD3F30009C19D00003D7222218683269B0A02D29B9B0EBF98019C050C0E040D@att.net> I wonder where they got them from ? I would think a more accurate number for poetry readers are those of the play readers, four to five percent. If they gathered these numbers at or around book stores, it would add to the poetry numbers , because poets spend a great deal of time feeding words to their heads. NEA report; According to the survey, the most popular types of literature are novels or short stories, which were read by 45 percent or 93 million adults in the previous year. Poetry was read by 12 percent or 25 million people, while just 4 percent or seven million people reported having read a play. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Opus40-01 Mon Jan 14 16:48:55 2008 From: Opus40-01 (TheOldMole) Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 16:48:55 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] In your local bookstore Message-ID: <478BD8C7.2010101@opus40.org> In response to David Graham's musing of a while back about the amount of contemporary poetry actually in bookstores, here's what the Inquiring Mind, local indie in Saugerties, NY, has: Julia Alvarez John Amen Maya Angelou Jimmy Santiago Baca Erin Belieu Martine Bellen Philip Booth Dennis Bressack David Budbill Eirann Corrigan (teen poet) Brenda Coultas Sandra Gilbert April Bernard Louise Erdrich C. G. Ferrel Seamus Heaney Ted Hughes Josephine Jacobsen David Kherdian James Lasdun Tom McCoy Jane Miller Elizabeth Gordon McKim Diane Ackerman Anne Lauterbach Honor Moore Mildred Barker Thom Molinaro Naomi Shihab Nye India Radfar Sherrod Santos Alice Walker Anne Waldman Patti Smith Aharon Shabtai Ann Stanford -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ The moral is this: in American verse, The better you are, the pay is worse. --Corey Ford From cervantes.james Mon Jan 14 17:05:50 2008 From: cervantes.james (James Cervantes) Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 15:05:50 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] In your local bookstore In-Reply-To: <478BD8C7.2010101@opus40.org> References: <478BD8C7.2010101@opus40.org> Message-ID: <648208b60801141405u1fc9c5f7s42b5594b5ec402ed@mail.gmail.com> Tad: Would you happen to know if the Inquiring Mind stocks p.o.d. books? The local indie here refuses to do so. - Jim On 1/14/08, TheOldMole wrote: > > In response to David Graham's musing of a while back about the amount of > contemporary poetry actually in bookstores, here's what the Inquiring > Mind, local indie in Saugerties, NY, has: > > Julia Alvarez > John Amen > Maya Angelou > Jimmy Santiago Baca > Erin Belieu > Martine Bellen > Philip Booth > Dennis Bressack > David Budbill > Eirann Corrigan (teen poet) > Brenda Coultas > Sandra Gilbert > April Bernard > Louise Erdrich > C. G. Ferrel > Seamus Heaney > Ted Hughes > Josephine Jacobsen > David Kherdian > James Lasdun > Tom McCoy > Jane Miller > Elizabeth Gordon McKim > Diane Ackerman > Anne Lauterbach > Honor Moore > Mildred Barker > Thom Molinaro > Naomi Shihab Nye > India Radfar > Sherrod Santos > Alice Walker > Anne Waldman > Patti Smith > Aharon Shabtai > Ann Stanford > > > > > -- > Tad Richards > http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ > http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ > > The moral is this: in American verse, > The better you are, the pay is worse. > --Corey Ford > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Opus40-01 Mon Jan 14 18:25:29 2008 From: Opus40-01 (TheOldMole) Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 18:25:29 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] In your local bookstore In-Reply-To: <648208b60801141405u1fc9c5f7s42b5594b5ec402ed@mail.gmail.com> References: <478BD8C7.2010101@opus40.org> <648208b60801141405u1fc9c5f7s42b5594b5ec402ed@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <478BEF69.40003@opus40.org> I'll be glad to check. POD is publish on demand? The Dennis Bressack book (local poet) looks like it must be -- it's bound like a cookbook, or Chicken Soup for the Poet's Soul. James Cervantes wrote: > Tad: Would you happen to know if the Inquiring Mind stocks p.o.d. > books? The local indie here refuses to do so. > > - Jim > > On 1/14/08, *TheOldMole* > wrote: > > In response to David Graham's musing of a while back about the > amount of > contemporary poetry actually in bookstores, here's what the Inquiring > Mind, local indie in Saugerties, NY, has: > > Julia Alvarez > John Amen > Maya Angelou > Jimmy Santiago Baca > Erin Belieu > Martine Bellen > Philip Booth > Dennis Bressack > David Budbill > Eirann Corrigan (teen poet) > Brenda Coultas > Sandra Gilbert > April Bernard > Louise Erdrich > C. G. Ferrel > Seamus Heaney > Ted Hughes > Josephine Jacobsen > David Kherdian > James Lasdun > Tom McCoy > Jane Miller > Elizabeth Gordon McKim > Diane Ackerman > Anne Lauterbach > Honor Moore > Mildred Barker > Thom Molinaro > Naomi Shihab Nye > India Radfar > Sherrod Santos > Alice Walker > Anne Waldman > Patti Smith > Aharon Shabtai > Ann Stanford > > > > > -- > Tad Richards > http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ > http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ > > The moral is this: in American verse, > The better you are, the pay is worse. > --Corey Ford > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ The moral is this: in American verse, The better you are, the pay is worse. --Corey Ford From cervantes.james Mon Jan 14 18:53:21 2008 From: cervantes.james (James Cervantes) Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 16:53:21 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] In your local bookstore In-Reply-To: <478BEF69.40003@opus40.org> References: <478BD8C7.2010101@opus40.org> <648208b60801141405u1fc9c5f7s42b5594b5ec402ed@mail.gmail.com> <478BEF69.40003@opus40.org> Message-ID: <648208b60801141553o6408e245i76adf13479a8fe3e@mail.gmail.com> Yeah, P.O.D. is on demand printing, but the books look like any other book published by a traditional press. The cookbook look must have been a personal decision re formatting. - Jim On 1/14/08, TheOldMole wrote: > I'll be glad to check. POD is publish on demand? The Dennis Bressack > book (local poet) looks like it must be -- it's bound like a cookbook, > or Chicken Soup for the Poet's Soul. > > James Cervantes wrote: > > Tad: Would you happen to know if the Inquiring Mind stocks p.o.d. > > books? The local indie here refuses to do so. > > > > - Jim > > > > On 1/14/08, *TheOldMole* > > wrote: > > > > In response to David Graham's musing of a while back about the > > amount of > > contemporary poetry actually in bookstores, here's what the Inquiring > > Mind, local indie in Saugerties, NY, has: > > > > Julia Alvarez > > John Amen > > Maya Angelou > > Jimmy Santiago Baca > > Erin Belieu > > Martine Bellen > > Philip Booth > > Dennis Bressack > > David Budbill > > Eirann Corrigan (teen poet) > > Brenda Coultas > > Sandra Gilbert > > April Bernard > > Louise Erdrich > > C. G. Ferrel > > Seamus Heaney > > Ted Hughes > > Josephine Jacobsen > > David Kherdian > > James Lasdun > > Tom McCoy > > Jane Miller > > Elizabeth Gordon McKim > > Diane Ackerman > > Anne Lauterbach > > Honor Moore > > Mildred Barker > > Thom Molinaro > > Naomi Shihab Nye > > India Radfar > > Sherrod Santos > > Alice Walker > > Anne Waldman > > Patti Smith > > Aharon Shabtai > > Ann Stanford > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Tad Richards > > http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ > > http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ > > > > The moral is this: in American verse, > > The better you are, the pay is worse. > > --Corey Ford > > > > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > -- > Tad Richards > http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ > http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ > > The moral is this: in American verse, > The better you are, the pay is worse. > --Corey Ford > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~ Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org ~ http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning ~ http://www.fieralingue.it/documenti/mr_bondo.pdf ~ http://www.poetserv.org/jvc/home/index.html ~ http://home.earthlink.net/~jvcervantes/ ~ http://www.flickr.com/photos/12364573 at N08/ From bobgrumman Mon Jan 14 19:17:46 2008 From: bobgrumman (Bob Grumman) Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 19:17:46 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] NEA Report--Interesting Numbers In-Reply-To: <011420082128.15730.478BD3F30009C19D00003D7222218683269B0A02D29B9B0EBF98019C050C0E040D@att.net> References: <011420082128.15730.478BD3F30009C19D00003D7222218683269B0A02D29B9B0EBF98019C050C0E040D@att.net> Message-ID: <478BFBAA.8020205@nut-n-but.net> What is meant by "Poetry was read?" Would reading a poem in /The New Yorker/ make one a reader of poetry, according to this survey. Would one, instead, have to have read a book of poetry? Or something in-between? --Bob G. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Opus40-01 Mon Jan 14 19:28:11 2008 From: Opus40-01 (TheOldMole) Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 19:28:11 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] NEA Report--Interesting Numbers In-Reply-To: <478BFBAA.8020205@nut-n-but.net> References: <011420082128.15730.478BD3F30009C19D00003D7222218683269B0A02D29B9B0EBF98019C050C0E040D@att.net> <478BFBAA.8020205@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <478BFE1B.6070809@opus40.org> My vote is for in between. Reading one poem in the New Yorker wouldn't qualify you, but regularly reading the poetry in the New Yorker would. Bob Grumman wrote: > What is meant by "Poetry was read?" Would reading a poem in /The New > Yorker/ make one a reader of poetry, according to this survey. Would > one, instead, have to have read a book of poetry? Or something > in-between? > > --Bob G. > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ The moral is this: in American verse, The better you are, the pay is worse. --Corey Ford From halvard Mon Jan 14 19:32:32 2008 From: halvard (Halvard Johnson) Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 18:32:32 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] NEA Report--Interesting Numbers In-Reply-To: <478BFBAA.8020205@nut-n-but.net> References: <011420082128.15730.478BD3F30009C19D00003D7222218683269B0A02D29B9B0EBF98019C050C0E040D@att.net> <478BFBAA.8020205@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: It's just like killing, Bob. One poem is enough to make you a poetry reader. Much more than one makes you a serial poetry reader. A lot more than that makes you a Henry Kissinger. Hal "Never eat anything larger than your head." --B. Kliban Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html On Jan 14, 2008, at 6:17 PM, Bob Grumman wrote: > What is meant by "Poetry was read?" Would reading a poem in The New > Yorker make one a reader of poetry, according to this survey. Would > one, instead, have to have read a book of poetry? Or something in- > between? > > --Bob G. > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cervantes.james Mon Jan 14 19:39:52 2008 From: cervantes.james (James Cervantes) Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 17:39:52 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] NEA Report--Interesting Numbers In-Reply-To: References: <011420082128.15730.478BD3F30009C19D00003D7222218683269B0A02D29B9B0EBF98019C050C0E040D@att.net> <478BFBAA.8020205@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <648208b60801141639p2c0d96d0j5b2ab9e58403c1cf@mail.gmail.com> Absolutely. And some, like Jeffrey Dahmer, eat the poems after they've read them. - Jim On 1/14/08, Halvard Johnson wrote: > It's just like killing, Bob. One poem is enough to make > you a poetry reader. Much more than one makes you > a serial poetry reader. A lot more than that makes > you a Henry Kissinger. > > Hal > > > > "Never eat anything larger than your head." > --B. Kliban > > Halvard Johnson > ================ > halvard at earthlink.net > http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.comhttp://www.hamiltonstone.org > http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html > > > On Jan 14, 2008, at 6:17 PM, Bob Grumman wrote: > > What is meant by "Poetry was read?" Would reading a poem in The New Yorker > make one a reader of poetry, according to this survey. Would one, instead, > have to have read a book of poetry? Or something in-between? > > --Bob G. > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~ Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org ~ http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning ~ http://www.fieralingue.it/documenti/mr_bondo.pdf ~ http://www.poetserv.org/jvc/home/index.html ~ http://home.earthlink.net/~jvcervantes/ ~ http://www.flickr.com/photos/12364573 at N08/ From Opus40-01 Mon Jan 14 19:46:49 2008 From: Opus40-01 (TheOldMole) Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 19:46:49 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] NEA Report--Interesting Numbers In-Reply-To: <648208b60801141639p2c0d96d0j5b2ab9e58403c1cf@mail.gmail.com> References: <011420082128.15730.478BD3F30009C19D00003D7222218683269B0A02D29B9B0EBF98019C050C0E040D@att.net> <478BFBAA.8020205@nut-n-but.net> <648208b60801141639p2c0d96d0j5b2ab9e58403c1cf@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <478C0279.90804@opus40.org> Mark Strand gave it a try. Eating Poetry Ink runs from the corners of my mouth. There is no happiness like mine. I have been eating poetry. The librarian does not believe what she sees. Her eyes are sad and she walks with her hands in her dress. The poems are gone. The light is dim. The dogs are on the basement stairs and coming up. Their eyeballs roll, their blond legs burn like brush. The poor librarian begins to stamp her feet and weep. She does not understand. When I get on my knees and lick her hand, she screams. I am a new man. I snarl at her and bark. I romp with joy in the bookish dark. James Cervantes wrote: > Absolutely. And some, like Jeffrey Dahmer, eat the poems after > they've read them. > > - Jim > > On 1/14/08, Halvard Johnson wrote: > >> It's just like killing, Bob. One poem is enough to make >> you a poetry reader. Much more than one makes you >> a serial poetry reader. A lot more than that makes >> you a Henry Kissinger. >> >> Hal >> >> >> >> "Never eat anything larger than your head." >> --B. Kliban >> >> Halvard Johnson >> ================ >> halvard at earthlink.net >> http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html >> http://entropyandme.blogspot.com >> http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.comhttp://www.hamiltonstone.org >> http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html >> >> >> On Jan 14, 2008, at 6:17 PM, Bob Grumman wrote: >> >> What is meant by "Poetry was read?" Would reading a poem in The New Yorker >> make one a reader of poetry, according to this survey. Would one, instead, >> have to have read a book of poetry? Or something in-between? >> >> --Bob G. >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> >> > > > -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ The moral is this: in American verse, The better you are, the pay is worse. --Corey Ford From Opus40-01 Mon Jan 14 20:00:22 2008 From: Opus40-01 (TheOldMole) Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 20:00:22 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] In your local bookstore In-Reply-To: <648208b60801141553o6408e245i76adf13479a8fe3e@mail.gmail.com> References: <478BD8C7.2010101@opus40.org> <648208b60801141405u1fc9c5f7s42b5594b5ec402ed@mail.gmail.com> <478BEF69.40003@opus40.org> <648208b60801141553o6408e245i76adf13479a8fe3e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <478C05A6.9080001@opus40.org> Then how does your local bookstore know they're POD? James Cervantes wrote: > Yeah, P.O.D. is on demand printing, but the books look like any other > book published by a traditional press. The cookbook look must have > been a personal decision re formatting. > > - Jim > > On 1/14/08, TheOldMole wrote: > >> I'll be glad to check. POD is publish on demand? The Dennis Bressack >> book (local poet) looks like it must be -- it's bound like a cookbook, >> or Chicken Soup for the Poet's Soul. >> >> James Cervantes wrote: >> >>> Tad: Would you happen to know if the Inquiring Mind stocks p.o.d. >>> books? The local indie here refuses to do so. >>> >>> - Jim >>> >>> On 1/14/08, *TheOldMole* >> > wrote: >>> >>> In response to David Graham's musing of a while back about the >>> amount of >>> contemporary poetry actually in bookstores, here's what the Inquiring >>> Mind, local indie in Saugerties, NY, has: >>> >>> Julia Alvarez >>> John Amen >>> Maya Angelou >>> Jimmy Santiago Baca >>> Erin Belieu >>> Martine Bellen >>> Philip Booth >>> Dennis Bressack >>> David Budbill >>> Eirann Corrigan (teen poet) >>> Brenda Coultas >>> Sandra Gilbert >>> April Bernard >>> Louise Erdrich >>> C. G. Ferrel >>> Seamus Heaney >>> Ted Hughes >>> Josephine Jacobsen >>> David Kherdian >>> James Lasdun >>> Tom McCoy >>> Jane Miller >>> Elizabeth Gordon McKim >>> Diane Ackerman >>> Anne Lauterbach >>> Honor Moore >>> Mildred Barker >>> Thom Molinaro >>> Naomi Shihab Nye >>> India Radfar >>> Sherrod Santos >>> Alice Walker >>> Anne Waldman >>> Patti Smith >>> Aharon Shabtai >>> Ann Stanford >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Tad Richards >>> http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ >>> http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ >>> >>> The moral is this: in American verse, >>> The better you are, the pay is worse. >>> --Corey Ford >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> New-Poetry mailing list >>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> New-Poetry mailing list >>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>> >>> >> -- >> Tad Richards >> http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ >> http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ >> >> The moral is this: in American verse, >> The better you are, the pay is worse. >> --Corey Ford >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > > > -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ The moral is this: in American verse, The better you are, the pay is worse. --Corey Ford From jforjames Mon Jan 14 20:36:02 2008 From: jforjames (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 20:36:02 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] In your local bookstore In-Reply-To: <478C05A6.9080001@opus40.org> References: <478BD8C7.2010101@opus40.org> <648208b60801141405u1fc9c5f7s42b5594b5ec402ed@mail.gmail.com> <478BEF69.40003@opus40.org> <648208b60801141553o6408e245i76adf13479a8fe3e@mail.gmail.com> <478C05A6.9080001@opus40.org> Message-ID: <8CA252E1F491593-698-26DC@FWM-D43.sysops.aol.com> I think it's because the books don't come to store?from their usual reps and distributors. It's an old story old dog booksellers having trouble catching on to new tricks. I hate to say it, but most indie booksellers who have closed their doors, closed them themselves. Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: TheOldMole Bcc: jforjames at aol.com Sent: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 8:00 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] In your local bookstore Then how does your local bookstore know they're POD?? ? James Cervantes wrote:? > Yeah, P.O.D. is on demand printing, but the books look like any other? > book published by a traditional press. The cookbook look must have? > been a personal decision re formatting.? >? > - Jim? >? > On 1/14/08, TheOldMole wrote:? > >> I'll be glad to check. POD is publish on demand? The Dennis Bressack? >> book (local poet) looks like it must be -- it's bound like a cookbook,? >> or Chicken Soup for the Poet's Soul.? >>? >> James Cervantes wrote:? >> >>> Tad: Would you happen to know if the Inquiring Mind stocks p.o.d.? >>> books? The local indie here refuses to do so.? >>>? >>> - Jim? >>>? >>> On 1/14/08, *TheOldMole* >> > wrote:? >>>? >>> In response to David Graham's musing of a while back about the? >>> amount of? >>> contemporary poetry actually in bookstores, here's what the Inquiring? >>> Mind, local indie in Saugerties, NY, has:? >>>? >>> Julia Alvarez? >>> John Amen? >>> Maya Angelou? >>> Jimmy Santiago Baca? >>> Erin Belieu? >>> Martine Bellen? >>> Philip Booth? >>> Dennis Bressack? >>> David Budbill? >>> Eirann Corrigan (teen poet)? >>> Brenda Coultas? >>> Sandra Gilbert? >>> April Bernard? >>> Louise Erdrich? >>> C. G. Ferrel? >>> Seamus Heaney? >>> Ted Hughes? >>> Josephine Jacobsen? >>> David Kherdian? >>> James Lasdun? >>> Tom McCoy? >>> Jane Miller? >>> Elizabeth Gordon McKim? >>> Diane Ackerman? >>> Anne Lauterbach? >>> Honor Moore? >>> Mildred Barker? >>> Thom Molinaro? >>> Naomi Shihab Nye? >>> India Radfar? >>> Sherrod Santos? >>> Alice Walker? >>> Anne Waldman? >>> Patti Smith? >>> Aharon Shabtai? >>> Ann Stanford? >>>? >>>? >>>? >>>? >>> --? >>> Tad Richards? >>> http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/? >>> http://opusforty.blogspot.com/? >>>? >>> The moral is this: in American verse,? >>> The better you are, the pay is worse.? >>> --Corey Ford? >>>? >>> _______________________________________________? >>> New-Poetry mailing list? >>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu ? >>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry? >>>? >>>? >>>? >>>? >>>? >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------? >>>? >>> _______________________________________________? >>> New-Poetry mailing list? >>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu? >>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry? >>>? >>> >> --? >> Tad Richards? >> http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/? >> http://opusforty.blogspot.com/? >>? >> The moral is this: in American verse,? >> The better you are, the pay is worse.? >> --Corey Ford? >>? >> _______________________________________________? >> New-Poetry mailing list? >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu? >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry? >>? >> >? >? > ? -- Tad Richards? http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/? http://opusforty.blogspot.com/? ? The moral is this: in American verse,? The better you are, the pay is worse.? ?--Corey Ford? ? _______________________________________________? New-Poetry mailing list? New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu? http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry? ________________________________________________________________________ More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://webmail.aol.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman Mon Jan 14 23:02:51 2008 From: bobgrumman (Bob Grumman) Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 23:02:51 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] What is "Reading Poetry?" In-Reply-To: <478BFE1B.6070809@opus40.org> References: <011420082128.15730.478BD3F30009C19D00003D7222218683269B0A02D29B9B0EBF98019C050C0E040D@att.net><478BFBAA.8020205@nut- n-but.net> <478BFE1B.6070809@opus40.org> Message-ID: <478C306B.7090602@nut-n-but.net> TheOldMole wrote: > My vote is for in between. Reading one poem in the New Yorker wouldn't > qualify you, but regularly reading the poetry in the New Yorker would. > Well, my vote would go for buying some publication in order to read one or more poems in it. But my question was really, "what did the people making the survey described consider 'reading poetry?'" How did they decide some person was a poetry reader? Did they have a yes/no question, "Did you read any poems last year?" If so, it would explain how the survey found that 14% of American adults, or whatever percentage it was, read poetry. My guess is closer to three percent, but that's excluding those who may have read a /New Yorker/ poem because it was near a cartoon, and the title piqued their interest. --Bob G. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cervantes.james Tue Jan 15 09:04:36 2008 From: cervantes.james (James Cervantes) Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2008 07:04:36 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] In your local bookstore In-Reply-To: <8CA252E1F491593-698-26DC@FWM-D43.sysops.aol.com> References: <478BD8C7.2010101@opus40.org> <648208b60801141405u1fc9c5f7s42b5594b5ec402ed@mail.gmail.com> <478BEF69.40003@opus40.org> <648208b60801141553o6408e245i76adf13479a8fe3e@mail.gmail.com> <478C05A6.9080001@opus40.org> <8CA252E1F491593-698-26DC@FWM-D43.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <648208b60801150604h39b8abc7u26098a385f3f628d@mail.gmail.com> Exactly. But on the other side, P.O.D. publishers (the ones I know of) will not take back unsold copies and/or not pay the return shipping costs, which makes sense economically. Likewise, most indie stores cannot afford to pay the return shipping costs. Indies, with major exceptions like Powell's, also do not have the shelf space that would allow them to display copies indefinitely. But there's Amazon. - Jim On 1/14/08, jforjames at aol.com wrote: > > I think it's because the books don't come to store from their usual reps > and distributors. It's an old story old dog booksellers having trouble > catching > on to new tricks. I hate to say it, but most indie booksellers who have > closed their doors, closed them themselves. > Finnegan > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: TheOldMole > Bcc: jforjames at aol.com > Sent: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 8:00 pm > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] In your local bookstore > > > > Then how does your local bookstore know they're POD? > > James Cervantes wrote: > > Yeah, P.O.D. is on demand printing, but the books look like any other > > book published by a traditional press. The cookbook look must have > > been a personal decision re formatting. > > > > - Jim > > > > On 1/14/08, TheOldMole wrote: > > >> I'll be glad to check. POD is publish on demand? The Dennis Bressack > >> book (local poet) looks like it must be -- it's bound like a cookbook, > >> or Chicken Soup for the Poet's Soul. > >> > >> James Cervantes wrote: > >> >>> Tad: Would you happen to know if the Inquiring Mind stocks p.o.d. > >>> books? The local indie here refuses to do so. > >>> > >>> - Jim > >>> > >>> On 1/14/08, *TheOldMole* >>> > wrote: > >>> > >>> In response to David Graham's musing of a while back about the > >>> amount of > >>> contemporary poetry actually in bookstores, here's what the Inquiring > >>> Mind, local indie in Saugerties, NY, has: > >>> > >>> Julia Alvarez > >>> John Amen > >>> Maya Angelou > >>> Jimmy Santiago Baca > >>> Erin Belieu > >>> Martine Bellen > >>> Philip Booth > >>> Dennis Bressack > >>> David Budbill > >>> Eirann Corrigan (teen poet) > >>> Brenda Coultas > >>> Sandra Gilbert > >>> April Bernard > >>> Louise Erdrich > >>> C. G. Ferrel > >>> Seamus Heaney > >>> Ted Hughes > >>> Josephine Jacobsen > >>> David Kherdian > >>> James Lasdun > >>> Tom McCoy > >>> Jane Miller > >>> Elizabeth Gordon McKim > >>> Diane Ackerman > >>> Anne Lauterbach > >>> Honor Moore > >>> Mildred Barker > >>> Thom Molinaro > >>> Naomi Shihab Nye > >>> India Radfar > >>> Sherrod Santos > >>> Alice Walker > >>> Anne Waldman > >>> Patti Smith > >>> Aharon Shabtai > >>> Ann Stanford > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> -- > >>> Tad Richards > >>> http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ > >>> http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ > >>> > >>> The moral is this: in American verse, > >>> The better you are, the pay is worse. > >>> --Corey Ford > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> New-Poetry mailing list > >>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > >>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> New-Poetry mailing list > >>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > >>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > >>> > >>> >> -- > >> Tad Richards > >> http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ > >> http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ > >> > >> The moral is this: in American verse, > >> The better you are, the pay is worse. > >> --Corey Ford > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> New-Poetry mailing list > >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > >> > >> > > > > > > -- Tad Richards > http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ > http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ > > The moral is this: in American verse, > The better you are, the pay is worse. > --Corey Ford > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > ________________________________ > More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail! > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > From cervantes.james Tue Jan 15 11:28:56 2008 From: cervantes.james (James Cervantes) Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2008 09:28:56 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] 10th Anniversary issue of The Salt River Review is online Message-ID: <648208b60801150828s65599cc6xeaed15489cf9b2a4@mail.gmail.com> A 10th Anniversary edition of The Salt River Review is now online. Poetry by Martin Ott, Halvard Johnson, Amanda Laughtland, John Morgan, Robert Lietz, Katherine Bogden, Sam Pereira, Peter Bruveris, Lynn Strongin, Wendy Taylor Carlisle, Kevin Conder, Sid Miller, Peggy Shumaker, & Barry Spacks. Fiction by B.J. Hollars, Edward Salem, Lisa Veyssiere, Matt Maxwell, Jennifer Berney, Gail Louise Siegel, & Rochelle Cashdan. http://www.poetserv.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Opus40-01 Tue Jan 15 13:00:16 2008 From: Opus40-01 (TheOldMole) Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2008 13:00:16 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] In your local bookstore In-Reply-To: <648208b60801150604h39b8abc7u26098a385f3f628d@mail.gmail.com> References: <478BD8C7.2010101@opus40.org> <648208b60801141405u1fc9c5f7s42b5594b5ec402ed@mail.gmail.com> <478BEF69.40003@opus40.org> <648208b60801141553o6408e245i76adf13479a8fe3e@mail.gmail.com> <478C05A6.9080001@opus40.org> <8CA252E1F491593-698-26DC@FWM-D43.sysops.aol.com> <648208b60801150604h39b8abc7u26098a385f3f628d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <478CF4B0.8010503@opus40.org> Well, if you only do one or two copies per indie store, and you concentrate your efforts on your local area, the shipping becomes not such a big deal. Probably close to home is one's best bet for selling poetry, no? James Cervantes wrote: > Exactly. But on the other side, P.O.D. publishers (the ones I know > of) will not take back unsold copies and/or not pay the return > shipping costs, which makes sense economically. Likewise, most indie > stores cannot afford to pay the return shipping costs. Indies, with > major exceptions like Powell's, also do not have the shelf space that > would allow them to display copies indefinitely. > > But there's Amazon. > > - Jim > > On 1/14/08, jforjames at aol.com wrote: >> I think it's because the books don't come to store from their usual reps >> and distributors. It's an old story old dog booksellers having trouble >> catching >> on to new tricks. I hate to say it, but most indie booksellers who have >> closed their doors, closed them themselves. >> Finnegan >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: TheOldMole >> Bcc: jforjames at aol.com >> Sent: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 8:00 pm >> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] In your local bookstore >> >> >> >> Then how does your local bookstore know they're POD? >> >> James Cervantes wrote: >> > Yeah, P.O.D. is on demand printing, but the books look like any other >> > book published by a traditional press. The cookbook look must have >> > been a personal decision re formatting. >> > >> > - Jim >> > >> > On 1/14/08, TheOldMole wrote: >> > >> I'll be glad to check. POD is publish on demand? The Dennis Bressack >> >> book (local poet) looks like it must be -- it's bound like a cookbook, >> >> or Chicken Soup for the Poet's Soul. >> >> >> >> James Cervantes wrote: >> >> >>> Tad: Would you happen to know if the Inquiring Mind stocks p.o.d. >> >>> books? The local indie here refuses to do so. >> >>> >> >>> - Jim >> >>> >> >>> On 1/14/08, *TheOldMole* > >>> > wrote: >> >>> >> >>> In response to David Graham's musing of a while back about the >> >>> amount of >> >>> contemporary poetry actually in bookstores, here's what the Inquiring >> >>> Mind, local indie in Saugerties, NY, has: >> >>> >> >>> Julia Alvarez >> >>> John Amen >> >>> Maya Angelou >> >>> Jimmy Santiago Baca >> >>> Erin Belieu >> >>> Martine Bellen >> >>> Philip Booth >> >>> Dennis Bressack >> >>> David Budbill >> >>> Eirann Corrigan (teen poet) >> >>> Brenda Coultas >> >>> Sandra Gilbert >> >>> April Bernard >> >>> Louise Erdrich >> >>> C. G. Ferrel >> >>> Seamus Heaney >> >>> Ted Hughes >> >>> Josephine Jacobsen >> >>> David Kherdian >> >>> James Lasdun >> >>> Tom McCoy >> >>> Jane Miller >> >>> Elizabeth Gordon McKim >> >>> Diane Ackerman >> >>> Anne Lauterbach >> >>> Honor Moore >> >>> Mildred Barker >> >>> Thom Molinaro >> >>> Naomi Shihab Nye >> >>> India Radfar >> >>> Sherrod Santos >> >>> Alice Walker >> >>> Anne Waldman >> >>> Patti Smith >> >>> Aharon Shabtai >> >>> Ann Stanford >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> -- >> >>> Tad Richards >> >>> http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ >> >>> http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ >> >>> >> >>> The moral is this: in American verse, >> >>> The better you are, the pay is worse. >> >>> --Corey Ford >> >>> >> >>> _______________________________________________ >> >>> New-Poetry mailing list >> >>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> >> >>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >>> >> >>> _______________________________________________ >> >>> New-Poetry mailing list >> >>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> >>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >>> >> >>> >> -- >> >> Tad Richards >> >> http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ >> >> http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ >> >> >> >> The moral is this: in American verse, >> >> The better you are, the pay is worse. >> >> --Corey Ford >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> New-Poetry mailing list >> >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> >> >> > >> > >> > >> -- Tad Richards >> http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ >> http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ >> >> The moral is this: in American verse, >> The better you are, the pay is worse. >> --Corey Ford >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> ________________________________ >> More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail! >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ The moral is this: in American verse, The better you are, the pay is worse. --Corey Ford From jforjames Tue Jan 15 16:29:52 2008 From: jforjames (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2008 16:29:52 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Sean O'Brien wins TS Eliot Prize Message-ID: <8CA25D4E679F9E3-CCC-1593@WEBMAIL-DG20.sysops.aol.com> http://entertainment.timesonline.co.uk/tol/arts_and_entertainment/books/poetry/article3187595.ece He is one of the leading poets of his generation, a wordsmith who is no stranger to winning prizes. Last night Sean O?Brien picked up another award for his mantelpiece ? the prestigious T. S. Eliot Prize. O?Brien, 55, who believes that ?a good poem reintroduces you to the world at a slightly unexpected angle?, won the ?15,000 prize with his collection The Drowned Book, which judges described as ?fierce, funny and deeply melancholy?. ________________________________________________________________________ More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://webmail.aol.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames Tue Jan 15 16:32:28 2008 From: jforjames (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2008 16:32:28 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] In Basho's footsteps Message-ID: <8CA25D5436B9BB9-CCC-15C5@WEBMAIL-DG20.sysops.aol.com> http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/ngm/2008-02/bashos-trail/norman-text.html Travels along the path of Matsuo Basho, Japan?s 17th-century haiku master, help bring his words to life.? ? ?Each day is a journey, and the journey itself home,? the poet Matsuo Basho wrote more than 300 years ago in the first entry of his masterpiece, Oku no Hosomichi, or Narrow Road to a Far Province. The words are on my mind as I prepare to walk in the footsteps of this revered poet, along his narrow road?the 1,200-mile route he followed through Japan in 1689. I confess that even to imagine doing so is a bit daunting. My late friend Helen Tanizaki, a linguist born and raised in Kyoto, told me, ?Everyone I went to school with could recite at least one of Basho?s poems by heart. He was the first writer we read in any exciting or serious way.? Today thousands of people pilgrimage to Basho?s birthplace and burial shrine and travel parts of Basho?s Trail. After three centuries his Narrow Road, in print in English and many other languages, still speaks to readers around the world. ? ________________________________________________________________________ More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://webmail.aol.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini Wed Jan 16 07:32:16 2008 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 13:32:16 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fw: [NarcissusWorks] Saying of a Jewish Buddhist. Message-ID: <005401c8583b$d45a46a0$98d63152@ANNY> ----- Original Message ----- From: Anny Ballardini To: anny.ballardini at tin.it Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2008 1:20 PM Subject: [NarcissusWorks] Saying of a Jewish Buddhist. Sayings of a Jewish Buddhist If there is no self, whose arthritis is this? Be here now. Be someplace else later. Is that so complicated? Drink tea and nourish life; with the first sip, joy; with the second sip, satisfaction; with the third sip, peace; with the fourth, a Danish. Wherever you go, there you are. Your luggage is another story. Accept misfortune as a blessing. Do not wish for perfect health, or a life without problems. What would you talk about? Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkis. Lovely, sent by Pierre Joris. -- Posted By Anny Ballardini to NarcissusWorks at 1/16/2008 01:18:00 PM -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From r_loden Wed Jan 16 08:47:35 2008 From: r_loden (Rachel Loden) Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 05:47:35 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] new on wordstrumpet: nixon vets the candidates &c. Message-ID: <003201c85846$5a318950$220110ac@GLASSCASTLE> http://wordstrumpet.blogspot.com/ * How Would Nixon Vote? Tricky D. Vets the Candidates * A Poem for Primaries: Milhous as King of the Ghosts * The Moist Lotus Open Along Acheron: Sappho, psychopomp &c. * The Important Looking Men (with a Note from Mair?ard Byrne) * Speechless: Woody Allen on the WGA strike; the "right-to-sing" state * Rose, Oh Pure Contradiction: Knox, Manguso & more * The More Things Change Dept.: Some Remarks on Humor by E.B. White * Susan Sontag: An Argument about Beauty * Concord in the Sixties: Hawthorne, the Alcotts, the Civil War * Poetry and the Theory of Heartbreak * A Fresh Face, Somebody Who Understands: Nixon and Rumsfeld * My Wicked Caddywumpus Ways: Blurb-Composition & other confusions * A Page from the Dangerfield Playbook: the Stephen T. Colbert Award for the Literary Excellence * Poetry, Grimness, and Gallows Humor: Mlinko, Brecht, Lerner, Flarf &c. * Adventures in Heresiology: Patrolling the Perimeter of the Avant-garde * Academy of Fine Arts: Linh Dinh by Jonathan Hill * Poem in Spanish (with a Note from Paul Hoover) * M. A. Numminen Sings Wittgenstein http://wordstrumpet.blogspot.com/ From r_loden Wed Jan 16 08:58:35 2008 From: r_loden (Rachel Loden) Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 05:58:35 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] new on wordstrumpet: nixon vets the candidates &c. In-Reply-To: <003201c85846$5a318950$220110ac@GLASSCASTLE> Message-ID: <003501c85847$e333e350$220110ac@GLASSCASTLE> Oops, I mean Mair?ad Byrne of course. Sorry Mair?ad if you're out there.... > http://wordstrumpet.blogspot.com/ > > > * How Would Nixon Vote? Tricky D. Vets the Candidates > > * A Poem for Primaries: Milhous as King of the Ghosts > > * The Moist Lotus Open Along Acheron: Sappho, psychopomp &c. > > * The Important Looking Men (with a Note from Mair?ard Byrne) > > * Speechless: Woody Allen on the WGA strike; the > "right-to-sing" state > > * Rose, Oh Pure Contradiction: Knox, Manguso & more > > * The More Things Change Dept.: Some Remarks on Humor by > E.B. White > > * Susan Sontag: An Argument about Beauty > > * Concord in the Sixties: Hawthorne, the Alcotts, the Civil War > > * Poetry and the Theory of Heartbreak > > * A Fresh Face, Somebody Who Understands: Nixon and Rumsfeld > > * My Wicked Caddywumpus Ways: Blurb-Composition & other > confusions > > * A Page from the Dangerfield Playbook: the Stephen T. > Colbert Award > for the Literary Excellence > > * Poetry, Grimness, and Gallows Humor: Mlinko, Brecht, > Lerner, Flarf > &c. > > * Adventures in Heresiology: Patrolling the Perimeter of the > Avant-garde > > * Academy of Fine Arts: Linh Dinh by Jonathan Hill > > * Poem in Spanish (with a Note from Paul Hoover) > > * M. A. Numminen Sings Wittgenstein > > http://wordstrumpet.blogspot.com/ > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > From jforjames Wed Jan 16 09:32:37 2008 From: jforjames (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 09:32:37 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Shepherd's poetry picks Message-ID: <8CA2663C6630EFD-16A8-37C2@FWM-D14.sysops.aol.com> http://poetryfoundation.org/harriet/2008/01/these_were_a_few_of_my_favorit.html#more Reginald Shepherd makes a list of po books for 2007. ________________________________________________________________________ More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://webmail.aol.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard Wed Jan 16 10:42:25 2008 From: halvard (Halvard Johnson) Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 09:42:25 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fw: [NarcissusWorks] Saying of a Jewish Buddhist. In-Reply-To: <005401c8583b$d45a46a0$98d63152@ANNY> References: <005401c8583b$d45a46a0$98d63152@ANNY> Message-ID: The journey of a thousand miles begins with a single Oy! Hal "A hen is only an egg's way of making another egg." --Samuel Butler Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html On Jan 16, 2008, at 6:32 AM, Anny Ballardini wrote: > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Anny Ballardini > To: anny.ballardini at tin.it > Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2008 1:20 PM > Subject: [NarcissusWorks] Saying of a Jewish Buddhist. > > Sayings of a Jewish Buddhist > > If there is no self, whose arthritis is this? > Be here now. Be someplace else later. Is that so complicated? > Drink tea and nourish life; with the first sip, joy; with the > second sip, satisfaction; with the third sip, peace; with the > fourth, a Danish. > Wherever you go, there you are. Your luggage is another story. > Accept misfortune as a blessing. Do not wish for perfect health, or > a life without problems. What would you talk about? > Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then > what do you have? Bupkis. > > Lovely, sent by Pierre Joris. > > -- > Posted By Anny Ballardini to NarcissusWorks at 1/16/2008 01:18:00 PM > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From peter.joseph.gloviczki Wed Jan 16 10:49:38 2008 From: peter.joseph.gloviczki (Peter Joseph Gloviczki) Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 09:49:38 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] The Long Wait Message-ID: Morning, all, What's an acceptable wait time to hear back on a submission? My current records are 353 Days (Cutbank) and 6 minutes (Taiga -- gotta love the speed of the Internet). Peter -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard Wed Jan 16 10:58:27 2008 From: halvard (Halvard Johnson) Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 09:58:27 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] The Long Wait In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <9835AB28-8CE8-4C93-8BC3-DCA0CABD23D9@earthlink.net> Glad you're keeping track, Peter. As for me, I tend to rely on memory and when I can't remember having sent it out that's the time to send it out again. What I love is the acceptance that no one bothers to tell one about. Hey, in Poetlandia, as in Texas, you're on your own. Hal "Always treat language like a dangerous toy." --Anselm Hollo Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html On Jan 16, 2008, at 9:49 AM, Peter Joseph Gloviczki wrote: > Morning, all, > > What's an acceptable wait time to hear back on a submission? My > current records are 353 Days (Cutbank) and 6 minutes (Taiga -- gotta > love the speed of the Internet). > > Peter > > < wmfr.blogspot.com> > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames Wed Jan 16 11:19:43 2008 From: jforjames (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 11:19:43 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] WorldPo: Hone Tuwhare passes away Message-ID: <8CA2672BC93F76C-6C8-2C2@FWM-D14.sysops.aol.com> http://tvnz.co.nz/view/page/411365/1546853 Poet Hone Tuwhare passes away Jan 16, 2008 9:00 PM Hone Tuwhare, one of New Zealand's most celebrated poets, has died. The prolific Maori poet died in hospital on Wednesday afternoon following a long illness. - ________________________________________________________________________ More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://webmail.aol.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Opus40-01 Wed Jan 16 11:19:43 2008 From: Opus40-01 (TheOldMole) Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 11:19:43 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] new on wordstrumpet: nixon vets the candidates &c. In-Reply-To: <003201c85846$5a318950$220110ac@GLASSCASTLE> References: <003201c85846$5a318950$220110ac@GLASSCASTLE> Message-ID: <478E2E9F.7030308@opus40.org> As a faithful wordstrumpeter, I had read this and loved it. Rachel Loden wrote: > > http://wordstrumpet.blogspot.com/ > > > * How Would Nixon Vote? Tricky D. Vets the Candidates > > * A Poem for Primaries: Milhous as King of the Ghosts > > * The Moist Lotus Open Along Acheron: Sappho, psychopomp &c. > > * The Important Looking Men (with a Note from Mair?ard Byrne) > > * Speechless: Woody Allen on the WGA strike; the "right-to-sing" state > > * Rose, Oh Pure Contradiction: Knox, Manguso & more > > * The More Things Change Dept.: Some Remarks on Humor by E.B. White > > * Susan Sontag: An Argument about Beauty > > * Concord in the Sixties: Hawthorne, the Alcotts, the Civil War > > * Poetry and the Theory of Heartbreak > > * A Fresh Face, Somebody Who Understands: Nixon and Rumsfeld > > * My Wicked Caddywumpus Ways: Blurb-Composition & other confusions > > * A Page from the Dangerfield Playbook: the Stephen T. Colbert Award > for the Literary Excellence > > * Poetry, Grimness, and Gallows Humor: Mlinko, Brecht, Lerner, Flarf > &c. > > * Adventures in Heresiology: Patrolling the Perimeter of the > Avant-garde > > * Academy of Fine Arts: Linh Dinh by Jonathan Hill > > * Poem in Spanish (with a Note from Paul Hoover) > > * M. A. Numminen Sings Wittgenstein > > http://wordstrumpet.blogspot.com/ > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ The moral is this: in American verse, The better you are, the pay is worse. --Corey Ford From Opus40-01 Wed Jan 16 11:27:43 2008 From: Opus40-01 (TheOldMole) Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 11:27:43 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Shepherd's poetry picks In-Reply-To: <8CA2663C6630EFD-16A8-37C2@FWM-D14.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CA2663C6630EFD-16A8-37C2@FWM-D14.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <478E307F.8000604@opus40.org> Some links for Reggie's faves: Christorper Arrigo: http://www.thediagram.com/3_2/arigo.html Bruce Beasley -- no poems on the web that I can fond, but this review of an earlier book has an excerpt: http://versemag.blogspot.com/2005/05/new-review-of-bruce-beasley.html jforjames at aol.com wrote: > http://poetryfoundation.org/harriet/2008/01/these_were_a_few_of_my_favorit.html#more > > Reginald Shepherd makes a list of po books for 2007. > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail > ! > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ The moral is this: in American verse, The better you are, the pay is worse. --Corey Ford From Opus40-01 Wed Jan 16 11:32:00 2008 From: Opus40-01 (TheOldMole) Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 11:32:00 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] The Long Wait In-Reply-To: <9835AB28-8CE8-4C93-8BC3-DCA0CABD23D9@earthlink.net> References: <9835AB28-8CE8-4C93-8BC3-DCA0CABD23D9@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <478E3180.3020005@opus40.org> Sometimes you never hear back. I go through a sending-out frenzy every now and again. When I do, I look at what's been out an unconscionable amount of time -- generally over three months -- and send those out again. There are exceptions. I know Cortland Review will take over a year, but I put up with it because (a) I respect them, and (b) they've taken a few of my poems in the past. Halvard Johnson wrote: > Glad you're keeping track, Peter. As for me, I tend > to rely on memory and when I can't remember having > sent it out that's the time to send it out again. What > I love is the acceptance that no one bothers to tell > one about. Hey, in Poetlandia, as in Texas, you're > on your own. > > Hal > > "Always treat language like a dangerous toy." > --Anselm Hollo > > Halvard Johnson > ================ > halvard at earthlink.net > http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html > > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > http://www.hamiltonstone.org > http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html > > > > On Jan 16, 2008, at 9:49 AM, Peter Joseph Gloviczki wrote: > >> Morning, all, >> >> What's an acceptable wait time to hear back on a submission? My >> current records are 353 Days (Cutbank) and 6 minutes (Taiga -- gotta >> love the speed of the Internet). >> >> Peter >> >> < wmfr.blogspot.com > >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ The moral is this: in American verse, The better you are, the pay is worse. --Corey Ford From anny.ballardini Wed Jan 16 12:04:42 2008 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 18:04:42 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] WorldPo: Hone Tuwhare passes away References: <8CA2672BC93F76C-6C8-2C2@FWM-D14.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <006801c85861$e34cc3b0$a0a83452@ANNY> I just watched Rabbit Proof Fence: http://www.commonsensemedia.org/movie-reviews/Rabbit-Proof-Fence.html quite an interesting movie, talking of Maori. Didn't watch Whale Rider that seems a hit. ----- Original Message ----- From: jforjames at aol.com To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2008 5:19 PM Subject: [New-Poetry] WorldPo: Hone Tuwhare passes away http://tvnz.co.nz/view/page/411365/1546853 Poet Hone Tuwhare passes away Jan 16, 2008 9:00 PM Hone Tuwhare, one of New Zealand's most celebrated poets, has died. The prolific Maori poet died in hospital on Wednesday afternoon following a long illness. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail! ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From r_loden Wed Jan 16 13:15:41 2008 From: r_loden (Rachel Loden) Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 10:15:41 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] "political poetry" (was new on wordstrumpet) In-Reply-To: <478E2E9F.7030308@opus40.org> Message-ID: <00a801c8586b$cdf91fe0$220110ac@GLASSCASTLE> Thanks, Tad -- and I was very intrigued by your post "A Low Dishonest Decade": http://opusforty.blogspot.com/2008/01/low-dishonest-decade.html I agree with Forster, for the most part, but not with the usually astute Johnny Cash. Folk song and politics are inextricably mixed, unless we want to deep-six "This Land Is Your Land" or "Silver Dagger" just for example. It always makes me laugh when people say they're not interested in (what they like to call) "political poetry." Did they imagine there was another kind? Some fish don't see water, but they're swimming in it. On the other hand, I'm not much interested in what often *passes* for political poetry -- agitprop and sloganeering, I mean. Rachel > -----Original Message----- > From: TheOldMole [mailto:Opus40-01 at opus40.org] > Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2008 8:20 AM > To: r_loden at sbcglobal.net; NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry > News & Views > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] new on wordstrumpet: nixon vets the > candidates &c. > > As a faithful wordstrumpeter, I had read this and loved it. > > Rachel Loden wrote: > > > > http://wordstrumpet.blogspot.com/ > > > > > > * How Would Nixon Vote? Tricky D. Vets the Candidates > > > > * A Poem for Primaries: Milhous as King of the Ghosts > > > > * The Moist Lotus Open Along Acheron: Sappho, psychopomp &c. > > > > * The Important Looking Men (with a Note from Mair?ard Byrne) > > > > * Speechless: Woody Allen on the WGA strike; the > "right-to-sing" state > > > > * Rose, Oh Pure Contradiction: Knox, Manguso & more > > > > * The More Things Change Dept.: Some Remarks on Humor > by E.B. White > > > > * Susan Sontag: An Argument about Beauty > > > > * Concord in the Sixties: Hawthorne, the Alcotts, the Civil War > > > > * Poetry and the Theory of Heartbreak > > > > * A Fresh Face, Somebody Who Understands: Nixon and Rumsfeld > > > > * My Wicked Caddywumpus Ways: Blurb-Composition & > other confusions > > > > * A Page from the Dangerfield Playbook: the Stephen T. > Colbert Award > > for the Literary Excellence > > > > * Poetry, Grimness, and Gallows Humor: Mlinko, Brecht, > Lerner, Flarf > > &c. > > > > * Adventures in Heresiology: Patrolling the Perimeter of the > > Avant-garde > > > > * Academy of Fine Arts: Linh Dinh by Jonathan Hill > > > > * Poem in Spanish (with a Note from Paul Hoover) > > > > * M. A. Numminen Sings Wittgenstein > > > > http://wordstrumpet.blogspot.com/ > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > -- > Tad Richards > http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ > http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ > > The moral is this: in American verse, > The better you are, the pay is worse. > --Corey Ford > From jforjames Wed Jan 16 13:22:11 2008 From: jforjames (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 13:22:11 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] 10th Anniversary issue of The Salt River Review is online In-Reply-To: <648208b60801150828s65599cc6xeaed15489cf9b2a4@mail.gmail.com> References: <648208b60801150828s65599cc6xeaed15489cf9b2a4@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <8CA2683D8B73015-15C8-BC7@WEBMAIL-MB18.sysops.aol.com> Congrats, Jim. That's a nice accomplishment...tens years in litmag life is?an epoch. There are?some advantages to being an online publisher, but it's still a good bit of work and resource, I'm sure. Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: James Cervantes To: new-poetry ; Cafe-Blue ; Crew ; poetics at buffalo.edu Sent: Tue, 15 Jan 2008 11:28 am Subject: [New-Poetry] 10th Anniversary issue of The Salt River Review is online A 10th Anniversary edition of The Salt River Review is now online. ? Poetry by Martin Ott, Halvard Johnson, Amanda Laughtland, John Morgan, Robert Lietz, Katherine Bogden, Sam Pereira, Peter Bruveris, Lynn Strongin, Wendy Taylor Carlisle, Kevin Conder, Sid Miller, Peggy Shumaker, & Barry Spacks. Fiction by B.J. Hollars, Edward Salem, Lisa Veyssiere, Matt Maxwell, Jennifer Berney, Gail Louise Siegel, & Rochelle Cashdan. http://www.poetserv.org _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry ________________________________________________________________________ More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://webmail.aol.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames Wed Jan 16 13:27:28 2008 From: jforjames (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 13:27:28 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Chinese Lit today Message-ID: <8CA2684956DA2A4-15C8-C3D@WEBMAIL-MB18.sysops.aol.com> http://books.guardian.co.uk/departments/generalfiction/story/0,,2241154,00.html According to the London-based Chinese poet Yang Lian the web is also becoming increasingly important for poets. At a time when formal publishers or magazines are "almost all refusing to publish any poems", the strength of poetry on the net makes today "the most exciting time since 1949. The internet provides possibilities for poets in different parts of the country to meet each other day to day." They can discuss literature, give each other feedback and even get involved in joint projects. "It's like back in the 1970s," he continues, ________________________________________________________________________ More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://webmail.aol.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames Wed Jan 16 14:05:45 2008 From: jforjames (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 14:05:45 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Light in Hand: Selected Early Poems of Lola Ridge In-Reply-To: <954A5413620E074797298540927621C510FC085E@sjcexchange.SJC.EDU> References: <954A5413620E074797298540927621C510FC085E@sjcexchange.SJC.EDU> Message-ID: <8CA2689EE7451C3-15C8-F7E@WEBMAIL-MB18.sysops.aol.com> -----Original Message----- From: Barone, Dennis Sent: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 1:38 pm Subject: FW: [Book Announcement] Light in Hand: Selected Early Poems of Lola Ridge From: Gian Lombardo [mailto:lombardo at quale.com] Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2008 12:36 PM To: Undisclosed-Recipient:; Subject: [Book Announcement] Light in Hand: Selected Early Poems of Lola Ridge ? Quale Press is pleased to announce the publication of Light in Hand: Selected Early Poems of Lola Ridge edited by Daniel Tobin. ? Lola Ridge, poet, editor, and passionate crusader for social justice, was a fixture of the New York literary avant-garde in the early twentieth century. Ridge?s outspoken political views and vivid, original verse earned her a place of prominence amidst such left-wing reformers and artists as Kay Boyle, John Dos Passos, and Harold Loeb, as well as luminaries of modernist American poetry including William Carlos Williams and Hart Crane. However, since her death in 1941, Ridge?s writing has become little more than a footnote to the history of American modernist poetry. ? Light in Hand therefore offers selections from Ridge?s first three volumes of poetry: The Ghetto and Other Poems, Sun-Up and Other Poems, and Red Flag. The poems in this volume showcase Ridge?s critical yet compassionate eye for the world around her, from the Jewish ghetto of the Lower East Side to the bloody frontlines of World War I. Rich with finely-drawn details of person and place, Ridge?s poems marry a materialist political sensibility with a deep spiritual belief in the ability of humankind to transcend the world?s havoc and strife. As Ridge writes in ?Obliteration? of ?The emptily effacing air, / That has closed upon so many cries? / Yet holds in its blue vacuum / No bleached white evidence,? it is often the work of history to bury the cries of the oppressed, as well as those who try to speak out against injustice. It was Ridge?s lifelong mission to counteract this erasure and illuminate that evidence. ? ?Lola Ridge stood a little apart from the rest, with what it is not too much to characterize as her own genius.? ???William Rose Ben?t, 1941 ? This volume is edited and features an introduction by Daniel Tobin, Chair of the Writing, Literature, and Publishing Department at Emerson College in Boston. Tobin is the author of three books of poems, Where the World Is Made (University Press of New England 1999), Double Life (Louisiana State University Press, 2004), and The Narrows (Four Way Books, 2005), and has won numerous award including The Discovery/The Nation Award, The Robert Penn Warren Award, and a creative writing fellowship from the National Endowment for the Arts. Tobin has also published numerous critical essays on modern and contemporary poetry. ? Light in Hand: Selected Early Poems of Lola Ridge edited by Daniel Tobin ISBN: 978-0-9792999-1-9 Perfect Bound, $15.00 Publication Date: December?2007 5 x 7.75 inches, 102 pages POETRY ? Individuals: Order directly from Small Press Distribution, 1-800-869-7553; or Amazon.com. ? Bookstores: Order through Small Press Distribution?or BookSurge or?Greenfield Distribution. ? *** ? If you would like to be removed from this email distribution list, or if you believe you have received this announcement in error, please hit reply and put "Remove" in the subject line. We apologize in advance for any inconvenience. ? ? ________________________________________________________________________ More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://webmail.aol.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lsgrimes Wed Jan 16 14:14:33 2008 From: lsgrimes (Linda Sue Grimes) Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 13:14:33 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] "political poetry" (was new on wordstrumpet) References: <00a801c8586b$cdf91fe0$220110ac@GLASSCASTLE> Message-ID: <002101c85874$07655070$0201a8c0@LindaSue> Tad, I serve as Feature Writer in Poetry at Suite101.com, and from time to time, I like to offer a feature about poetry and politics. I read your blog post with interest but have a question. Would you please explain the following claim?: "this should be required reading for the Bush administration." Thanks, lsg ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rachel Loden" To: "'NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views'" Cc: "'TheOldMole'" Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2008 12:15 PM Subject: [New-Poetry] "political poetry" (was new on wordstrumpet) > Thanks, Tad -- and I was very intrigued by your post "A Low Dishonest > Decade": > > http://opusforty.blogspot.com/2008/01/low-dishonest-decade.html > > I agree with Forster, for the most part, but not with the usually astute > Johnny Cash. Folk song and politics are inextricably mixed, unless we want > to deep-six "This Land Is Your Land" or "Silver Dagger" just for example. > > It always makes me laugh when people say they're not interested in (what > they like to call) "political poetry." Did they imagine there was another > kind? Some fish don't see water, but they're swimming in it. > > On the other hand, I'm not much interested in what often *passes* for > political poetry -- agitprop and sloganeering, I mean. > > Rachel > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: TheOldMole [mailto:Opus40-01 at opus40.org] >> Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2008 8:20 AM >> To: r_loden at sbcglobal.net; NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry >> News & Views >> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] new on wordstrumpet: nixon vets the >> candidates &c. >> >> As a faithful wordstrumpeter, I had read this and loved it. >> >> Rachel Loden wrote: >> > >> > http://wordstrumpet.blogspot.com/ >> > >> > >> > * How Would Nixon Vote? Tricky D. Vets the Candidates >> > >> > * A Poem for Primaries: Milhous as King of the Ghosts >> > >> > * The Moist Lotus Open Along Acheron: Sappho, psychopomp &c. >> > >> > * The Important Looking Men (with a Note from Mair?ard Byrne) >> > >> > * Speechless: Woody Allen on the WGA strike; the >> "right-to-sing" state >> > >> > * Rose, Oh Pure Contradiction: Knox, Manguso & more >> > >> > * The More Things Change Dept.: Some Remarks on Humor >> by E.B. White >> > >> > * Susan Sontag: An Argument about Beauty >> > >> > * Concord in the Sixties: Hawthorne, the Alcotts, the Civil War >> > >> > * Poetry and the Theory of Heartbreak >> > >> > * A Fresh Face, Somebody Who Understands: Nixon and Rumsfeld >> > >> > * My Wicked Caddywumpus Ways: Blurb-Composition & >> other confusions >> > >> > * A Page from the Dangerfield Playbook: the Stephen T. >> Colbert Award >> > for the Literary Excellence >> > >> > * Poetry, Grimness, and Gallows Humor: Mlinko, Brecht, >> Lerner, Flarf >> > &c. >> > >> > * Adventures in Heresiology: Patrolling the Perimeter of the >> > Avant-garde >> > >> > * Academy of Fine Arts: Linh Dinh by Jonathan Hill >> > >> > * Poem in Spanish (with a Note from Paul Hoover) >> > >> > * M. A. Numminen Sings Wittgenstein >> > >> > http://wordstrumpet.blogspot.com/ >> > >> > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > New-Poetry mailing list >> > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> > >> >> -- >> Tad Richards >> http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ >> http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ >> >> The moral is this: in American verse, >> The better you are, the pay is worse. >> --Corey Ford >> > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From rsillima Wed Jan 16 16:58:28 2008 From: rsillima (Ron Silliman) Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 13:58:28 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] Internationalism at the NBCC In-Reply-To: <200801151241.m0FCfe2g024755@wiz.cath.vt.edu> Message-ID: <461008.68942.qm@web31808.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Tom Pickard's not international? Also not a trade (or even university) press in the bunch, Ron JforJames at aol.com wrote: http://bookcriticscircle.blogspot.com/ Poetry nods to the international scene include books by poet Tadeusz Rozewicz (New Poems, Archipelago), with other finalists including Mary Jo Bang (Elegy, Graywolf) and Michael O???Brien (Sleeping and Waking, Flood). Poetry Mary Jo Bang, Elegy, Graywolf Matthea Harvey, Modern Life, Graywolf Michael O'Brien, Sleeping and Waking, Flood Tom Pickard, The Ballad of Jamie Allan, Flood Tadeusz Rozewicz, New Poems, Archipelago From jeff.newberry Wed Jan 16 17:40:56 2008 From: jeff.newberry (Jeff Newberry) Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 17:40:56 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] "political poetry" (was new on wordstrumpet) In-Reply-To: <00a801c8586b$cdf91fe0$220110ac@GLASSCASTLE> References: <478E2E9F.7030308@opus40.org> <00a801c8586b$cdf91fe0$220110ac@GLASSCASTLE> Message-ID: <731bb17a0801161440y7cc03b28m4ddcbe0ecb9a9ca8@mail.gmail.com> Hi Rachel, How are you defining political? Do you mean broadly, as "of the people?" Or perhaps "having to do with politics?" Or perhaps "having to do with politics with a slant toward one's own political party?" Or perhaps, "not private?" I'm not being snarky. I just wonder. I've heard this line before, "All poetry is political." I suppose that depends on how you define "political." I have a great interest in this debate(?). Is poetry by nature "political?" Again, I suppose it depends on how you want to define "political." Is language "political?" If you buy that line of thinking, I suppose it is. Of course, my great curse is that I always not only see but also feel some sympathy for every side in a debate, be it political(!) or private. Best, Jeff Newberry On Jan 16, 2008 1:15 PM, Rachel Loden wrote: > Thanks, Tad -- and I was very intrigued by your post "A Low Dishonest > Decade": > > http://opusforty.blogspot.com/2008/01/low-dishonest-decade.html > > I agree with Forster, for the most part, but not with the usually astute > Johnny Cash. Folk song and politics are inextricably mixed, unless we want > to deep-six "This Land Is Your Land" or "Silver Dagger" just for example. > > It always makes me laugh when people say they're not interested in (what > they like to call) "political poetry." Did they imagine there was another > kind? Some fish don't see water, but they're swimming in it. > > On the other hand, I'm not much interested in what often *passes* for > political poetry -- agitprop and sloganeering, I mean. > > Rachel > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: TheOldMole [mailto:Opus40-01 at opus40.org] > > Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2008 8:20 AM > > To: r_loden at sbcglobal.net; NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry > > News & Views > > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] new on wordstrumpet: nixon vets the > > candidates &c. > > > > As a faithful wordstrumpeter, I had read this and loved it. > > > > Rachel Loden wrote: > > > > > > http://wordstrumpet.blogspot.com/ > > > > > > > > > * How Would Nixon Vote? Tricky D. Vets the Candidates > > > > > > * A Poem for Primaries: Milhous as King of the Ghosts > > > > > > * The Moist Lotus Open Along Acheron: Sappho, psychopomp &c. > > > > > > * The Important Looking Men (with a Note from Mair?ard Byrne) > > > > > > * Speechless: Woody Allen on the WGA strike; the > > "right-to-sing" state > > > > > > * Rose, Oh Pure Contradiction: Knox, Manguso & more > > > > > > * The More Things Change Dept.: Some Remarks on Humor > > by E.B. White > > > > > > * Susan Sontag: An Argument about Beauty > > > > > > * Concord in the Sixties: Hawthorne, the Alcotts, the Civil War > > > > > > * Poetry and the Theory of Heartbreak > > > > > > * A Fresh Face, Somebody Who Understands: Nixon and Rumsfeld > > > > > > * My Wicked Caddywumpus Ways: Blurb-Composition & > > other confusions > > > > > > * A Page from the Dangerfield Playbook: the Stephen T. > > Colbert Award > > > for the Literary Excellence > > > > > > * Poetry, Grimness, and Gallows Humor: Mlinko, Brecht, > > Lerner, Flarf > > > &c. > > > > > > * Adventures in Heresiology: Patrolling the Perimeter of the > > > Avant-garde > > > > > > * Academy of Fine Arts: Linh Dinh by Jonathan Hill > > > > > > * Poem in Spanish (with a Note from Paul Hoover) > > > > > > * M. A. Numminen Sings Wittgenstein > > > > > > http://wordstrumpet.blogspot.com/ > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > New-Poetry mailing list > > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > > > -- > > Tad Richards > > http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ > > http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ > > > > The moral is this: in American verse, > > The better you are, the pay is worse. > > --Corey Ford > > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- "Memory believes before knowing remembers. Believes longer than recollects, longer than knowing even wonders." ?William Faulkner, Light in August http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini Wed Jan 16 17:59:13 2008 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 23:59:13 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Okay, Message-ID: <000f01c85893$69e596f0$6d2ab750@ANNY> Bill Loehfelm is one of the club, or of the gang if you prefer. The story is well written, I mean the several beginning pages Amazon offers, which sort of makes you think that it will continue till the end. Why not then? I am pasting the original message: Hey y'all, I have exciting news. My novel Fresh Kills has advanced to the semi-final round of the Amazon Breakthrough Novel Award, meaning I finished in the top twenty percent out of over 5,000 entries. The grand prize is a publishing contract with Penguin, one of the world's leading publishers. Out of the semi-finalists 100 writers will be selected for the finals. Here's the critical part: Advancement to the finals will be determined by reader downloads and reviews for the novel excerpt currently available at a link I'll post at the end of this message. If the link doesn't work, you can access the contest page through Amazon's home page. Just scroll down on the left and you'll find the name of the contest. My novel is entered under mystery, suspense and thriller. Click that link and I'm on page 6. The excerpt is available for download and comment until March 2. Throughout the process, representatives from Penguin and from industry publication Publishers Weekly will be watching for entrants that get a lot of attention. This contest is the best opportunity I've had in a while to get my work significant attention. I beg you to take a few minutes to download the excerpt (it's free and it's printable), read it, and write a review. I really need everyone's help on this. I will be forever grateful. http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00121WDJM Thanks and wish me luck, Bill -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Opus40-01 Wed Jan 16 18:06:11 2008 From: Opus40-01 (TheOldMole) Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 18:06:11 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] "political poetry" (was new on wordstrumpet) In-Reply-To: <731bb17a0801161440y7cc03b28m4ddcbe0ecb9a9ca8@mail.gmail.com> References: <478E2E9F.7030308@opus40.org> <00a801c8586b$cdf91fe0$220110ac@GLASSCASTLE> <731bb17a0801161440y7cc03b28m4ddcbe0ecb9a9ca8@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <478E8DE3.4030102@opus40.org> I love the Forster quote. The Johnny Cash is from "The One on the Right Was on the Left," in which political differences break up a folk group. A funny song, but you're right...not good advice. I don't put all that much of the political into my poetry -- you just have to follow where the words take you, and mine don't seem to take me to the specifically political all that often, athough it's all about the world we live in, and the weird stuff that impinges on it. But boy, I can't stay away from it in my fiction. "Nick and Jake" was about the McCarthy era, the one in progress is set in the thirties, and is mostly about left wing WPA muralists. Jeff Newberry wrote: > Hi Rachel, > > How are you defining political? Do you mean broadly, as "of the > people?" Or perhaps "having to do with politics?" Or perhaps "having > to do with politics with a slant toward one's own political party?" > Or perhaps, "not private?" > > I'm not being snarky. I just wonder. I've heard this line before, > "All poetry is political." I suppose that depends on how you define > "political." > > I have a great interest in this debate(?). Is poetry by nature > "political?" Again, I suppose it depends on how you want to define > "political." Is language "political?" If you buy that line of > thinking, I suppose it is. Of course, my great curse is that I always > not only see but also feel some sympathy for every side in a debate, > be it political(!) or private. > > Best, > > Jeff Newberry > > On Jan 16, 2008 1:15 PM, Rachel Loden > wrote: > > Thanks, Tad -- and I was very intrigued by your post "A Low Dishonest > Decade": > > http://opusforty.blogspot.com/2008/01/low-dishonest-decade.html > > > I agree with Forster, for the most part, but not with the usually > astute > Johnny Cash. Folk song and politics are inextricably mixed, unless > we want > to deep-six "This Land Is Your Land" or "Silver Dagger" just for > example. > > It always makes me laugh when people say they're not interested in > (what > they like to call) "political poetry." Did they imagine there was > another > kind? Some fish don't see water, but they're swimming in it. > > On the other hand, I'm not much interested in what often *passes* for > political poetry -- agitprop and sloganeering, I mean. > > Rachel > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: TheOldMole [mailto: Opus40-01 at opus40.org > ] > > Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2008 8:20 AM > > To: r_loden at sbcglobal.net ; > NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry > > News & Views > > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] new on wordstrumpet: nixon vets the > > candidates &c. > > > > As a faithful wordstrumpeter, I had read this and loved it. > > > > Rachel Loden wrote: > > > > > > http://wordstrumpet.blogspot.com/ > > > > > > > > > * How Would Nixon Vote? Tricky D. Vets the Candidates > > > > > > * A Poem for Primaries: Milhous as King of the Ghosts > > > > > > * The Moist Lotus Open Along Acheron: Sappho, psychopomp &c. > > > > > > * The Important Looking Men (with a Note from Mair?ard Byrne) > > > > > > * Speechless: Woody Allen on the WGA strike; the > > "right-to-sing" state > > > > > > * Rose, Oh Pure Contradiction: Knox, Manguso & more > > > > > > * The More Things Change Dept.: Some Remarks on Humor > > by E.B. White > > > > > > * Susan Sontag: An Argument about Beauty > > > > > > * Concord in the Sixties: Hawthorne, the Alcotts, the > Civil War > > > > > > * Poetry and the Theory of Heartbreak > > > > > > * A Fresh Face, Somebody Who Understands: Nixon and Rumsfeld > > > > > > * My Wicked Caddywumpus Ways: Blurb-Composition & > > other confusions > > > > > > * A Page from the Dangerfield Playbook: the Stephen T. > > Colbert Award > > > for the Literary Excellence > > > > > > * Poetry, Grimness, and Gallows Humor: Mlinko, Brecht, > > Lerner, Flarf > > > &c. > > > > > > * Adventures in Heresiology: Patrolling the Perimeter of the > > > Avant-garde > > > > > > * Academy of Fine Arts: Linh Dinh by Jonathan Hill > > > > > > * Poem in Spanish (with a Note from Paul Hoover) > > > > > > * M. A. Numminen Sings Wittgenstein > > > > > > http://wordstrumpet.blogspot.com/ > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > New-Poetry mailing list > > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > > > -- > > Tad Richards > > http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ > > http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ > > > > The moral is this: in American verse, > > The better you are, the pay is worse. > > --Corey Ford > > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > -- > "Memory believes before knowing remembers. Believes longer than > recollects, longer than knowing even wonders." > ?William Faulkner, Light in August > > > http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ The moral is this: in American verse, The better you are, the pay is worse. --Corey Ford From Opus40-01 Wed Jan 16 18:23:28 2008 From: Opus40-01 (TheOldMole) Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 18:23:28 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] "political poetry" (was new on wordstrumpet) In-Reply-To: <478E8DE3.4030102@opus40.org> References: <478E2E9F.7030308@opus40.org> <00a801c8586b$cdf91fe0$220110ac@GLASSCASTLE> <731bb17a0801161440y7cc03b28m4ddcbe0ecb9a9ca8@mail.gmail.com> <478E8DE3.4030102@opus40.org> Message-ID: <478E91F0.5010501@opus40.org> Written by the great Cowboy Jack Clement, performed by the incomparable Johnny Cash, There once was a musical troupe A pickin' singin' folk group They sang the mountain ballads And the folk songs of our land They were long on musical ability Folks thought they would go far But political incompatibility led to their downfall Well, the one on the right was on the left And the one in the middle was on the right And the one on the left was in the middle And the guy in the rear was a Methodist This musical aggregation toured the entire nation Singing the traditional ballads And the folk songs of our land They performed with great virtuosity And soon they were the rage But political animosity prevailed upon the stage Well, the one on the right was on the left And the one in the middle was on the right And the one on the left was in the middle And the guy in the rear burned his driver's license Well the curtain had ascended A hush fell on the crowd As thousands there were gathered to hear The folk songs of our land But they took their politics seriously And that night at the concert hall As the audience watched deliriously They had a free-for-all Well, the one on the right was on the bottom And the one in the middle was on the top And the one on the left got a broken arm And the guy in the rear, said, "Oh dear" Now this should be a lesson if you plan to start a folk group Don't go mixin' politics with the folk songs of our land Just work on harmony and diction Play your banjo well And if you have political convictions keep them to yourself Now, the one on the left works in a bank And the one in the middle drives a truck The one on the right's an all-night deejay And the guy in the rear got drafted TheOldMole wrote: > I love the Forster quote. The Johnny Cash is from "The One on the > Right Was on the Left," in which political differences break up a folk > group. A funny song, but you're right...not good advice. I don't put > all that much of the political into my poetry -- you just have to > follow where the words take you, and mine don't seem to take me to the > specifically political all that often, athough it's all about the > world we live in, and the weird stuff that impinges on it. But boy, I > can't stay away from it in my fiction. "Nick and Jake" was about the > McCarthy era, the one in progress is set in the thirties, and is > mostly about left wing WPA muralists. > > Jeff Newberry wrote: >> Hi Rachel, >> >> How are you defining political? Do you mean broadly, as "of the >> people?" Or perhaps "having to do with politics?" Or perhaps >> "having to do with politics with a slant toward one's own political >> party?" Or perhaps, "not private?" >> >> I'm not being snarky. I just wonder. I've heard this line before, >> "All poetry is political." I suppose that depends on how you define >> "political." >> >> I have a great interest in this debate(?). Is poetry by nature >> "political?" Again, I suppose it depends on how you want to define >> "political." Is language "political?" If you buy that line of >> thinking, I suppose it is. Of course, my great curse is that I >> always not only see but also feel some sympathy for every side in a >> debate, be it political(!) or private. >> >> Best, >> >> Jeff Newberry >> >> On Jan 16, 2008 1:15 PM, Rachel Loden > > wrote: >> >> Thanks, Tad -- and I was very intrigued by your post "A Low >> Dishonest >> Decade": >> >> http://opusforty.blogspot.com/2008/01/low-dishonest-decade.html >> >> >> I agree with Forster, for the most part, but not with the usually >> astute >> Johnny Cash. Folk song and politics are inextricably mixed, unless >> we want >> to deep-six "This Land Is Your Land" or "Silver Dagger" just for >> example. >> >> It always makes me laugh when people say they're not interested in >> (what >> they like to call) "political poetry." Did they imagine there was >> another >> kind? Some fish don't see water, but they're swimming in it. >> >> On the other hand, I'm not much interested in what often *passes* >> for >> political poetry -- agitprop and sloganeering, I mean. >> >> Rachel >> >> > -----Original Message----- >> > From: TheOldMole [mailto: Opus40-01 at opus40.org >> ] >> > Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2008 8:20 AM >> > To: r_loden at sbcglobal.net ; >> NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry >> > News & Views >> > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] new on wordstrumpet: nixon vets the >> > candidates &c. >> > >> > As a faithful wordstrumpeter, I had read this and loved it. >> > >> > Rachel Loden wrote: >> > > >> > > http://wordstrumpet.blogspot.com/ >> > > >> > > >> > > * How Would Nixon Vote? Tricky D. Vets the Candidates >> > > >> > > * A Poem for Primaries: Milhous as King of the Ghosts >> > > >> > > * The Moist Lotus Open Along Acheron: Sappho, psychopomp &c. >> > > >> > > * The Important Looking Men (with a Note from Mair?ard >> Byrne) >> > > >> > > * Speechless: Woody Allen on the WGA strike; the >> > "right-to-sing" state >> > > >> > > * Rose, Oh Pure Contradiction: Knox, Manguso & more >> > > >> > > * The More Things Change Dept.: Some Remarks on Humor >> > by E.B. White >> > > >> > > * Susan Sontag: An Argument about Beauty >> > > >> > > * Concord in the Sixties: Hawthorne, the Alcotts, the >> Civil War >> > > >> > > * Poetry and the Theory of Heartbreak >> > > >> > > * A Fresh Face, Somebody Who Understands: Nixon and >> Rumsfeld >> > > >> > > * My Wicked Caddywumpus Ways: Blurb-Composition & >> > other confusions >> > > >> > > * A Page from the Dangerfield Playbook: the Stephen T. >> > Colbert Award >> > > for the Literary Excellence >> > > >> > > * Poetry, Grimness, and Gallows Humor: Mlinko, Brecht, >> > Lerner, Flarf >> > > &c. >> > > >> > > * Adventures in Heresiology: Patrolling the Perimeter of >> the >> > > Avant-garde >> > > >> > > * Academy of Fine Arts: Linh Dinh by Jonathan Hill >> > > >> > > * Poem in Spanish (with a Note from Paul Hoover) >> > > >> > > * M. A. Numminen Sings Wittgenstein >> > > >> > > http://wordstrumpet.blogspot.com/ >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > _______________________________________________ >> > > New-Poetry mailing list >> > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> > > >> > >> > -- >> > Tad Richards >> > http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ >> > http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ >> > >> > The moral is this: in American verse, >> > The better you are, the pay is worse. >> > --Corey Ford >> > >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> >> >> >> -- >> "Memory believes before knowing remembers. Believes longer than >> recollects, longer than knowing even wonders." >> ?William Faulkner, Light in August >> >> >> http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> > -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ The moral is this: in American verse, The better you are, the pay is worse. --Corey Ford From grahamd Wed Jan 16 18:47:11 2008 From: grahamd (David Graham) Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 17:47:11 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] "political poetry" In-Reply-To: <478E8DE3.4030102@opus40.org> References: <478E2E9F.7030308@opus40.org> <00a801c8586b$cdf91fe0$220110ac@GLASSCASTLE> <731bb17a0801161440y7cc03b28m4ddcbe0ecb9a9ca8@mail.gmail.com> <478E8DE3.4030102@opus40.org> Message-ID: <6E40C420-D8CB-4F08-A738-0BD8CC618C40@ripon.edu> Just a side-bar to this perennial thread: I'd like to offer a hearty recommendation for a novel that I'll bet many have not heard of: *Malcolm & Jack*, by Ted Pelton. From Spuyten Duyvil (2006). It's a beautifully written novel in a number of historical voices, including Billie Holiday, Jack Kerouac, and Malcolm X. The premise is that Kerouac met Detroit Red in Harlem at a Holiday concert, and things develop from there. It's not "about" politics in any didactic way, but it skillfully weaves together all sorts of hot button issues, including, of course, race, class, gender, and the alienated politics of the Beats. Pelton really captures the feel of late 1940s New York, and if you're a fan of the poetry or jazz of that era in particular, the book will not disappoint. Cameos by Ginsberg, Cassady, et al. Really luscious, historically saturated writing. The book's been compared, predictably enough, to DeLillo, though I found myself thinking more of Toni Morrison. Amazon page: http://www.amazon.com/Malcolm-Other-Famous-American-Criminals/dp/ 1933132094/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1200526349&sr=1-1 Publisher's page: http://www.spuytenduyvil.net/fiction/malcolmandjack.htm ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/About%20Me.html Poetry Library: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== On Jan 16, 2008, at 5:06 PM, TheOldMole wrote: > I love the Forster quote. The Johnny Cash is from "The One on the > Right Was on the Left," in which political differences break up a > folk group. A funny song, but you're right...not good advice. I > don't put all that much of the political into my poetry -- you just > have to follow where the words take you, and mine don't seem to > take me to the specifically political all that often, athough it's > all about the world we live in, and the weird stuff that impinges > on it. But boy, I can't stay away from it in my fiction. "Nick and > Jake" was about the McCarthy era, the one in progress is set in the > thirties, and is mostly about left wing WPA muralists. > > Jeff Newberry wrote: >> Hi Rachel, >> >> How are you defining political? Do you mean broadly, as "of the >> people?" Or perhaps "having to do with politics?" Or perhaps >> "having to do with politics with a slant toward one's own >> political party?" Or perhaps, "not private?" >> >> I'm not being snarky. I just wonder. I've heard this line >> before, "All poetry is political." I suppose that depends on how >> you define "political." >> >> I have a great interest in this debate(?). Is poetry by nature >> "political?" Again, I suppose it depends on how you want to >> define "political." Is language "political?" If you buy that >> line of thinking, I suppose it is. Of course, my great curse is >> that I always not only see but also feel some sympathy for every >> side in a debate, be it political(!) or private. >> >> Best, >> >> Jeff Newberry >> >> On Jan 16, 2008 1:15 PM, Rachel Loden > > wrote: >> >> Thanks, Tad -- and I was very intrigued by your post "A Low >> Dishonest >> Decade": >> >> http://opusforty.blogspot.com/2008/01/low-dishonest-decade.html >> >> >> I agree with Forster, for the most part, but not with the usually >> astute >> Johnny Cash. Folk song and politics are inextricably mixed, >> unless >> we want >> to deep-six "This Land Is Your Land" or "Silver Dagger" just for >> example. >> >> It always makes me laugh when people say they're not >> interested in >> (what >> they like to call) "political poetry." Did they imagine there was >> another >> kind? Some fish don't see water, but they're swimming in it. >> >> On the other hand, I'm not much interested in what often >> *passes* for >> political poetry -- agitprop and sloganeering, I mean. >> >> Rachel >> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From r_loden Wed Jan 16 19:25:09 2008 From: r_loden (Rachel Loden) Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 16:25:09 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] "political poetry" (was new on wordstrumpet) In-Reply-To: <478E91F0.5010501@opus40.org> Message-ID: <013501c8589f$6b16f490$220110ac@GLASSCASTLE> Tad, that's wonderful -- now the whole thing makes sense to me, in the context of this comic song. As I think you know, nobody's less enamored of political orthodoxy than I am. Allergic to the stuff from babyhood, when I was exposed to way too much of it from all sides. Political rigidities of the right and the left are mirrors of one another. We all know this, yes? These people are vogueing, striking poses -- they're not thinking. It didn't make sense that Johnny would be hectoring in that seemingly humorless way but poking fun at human peccadilloes -- absolutely. Rachel > -----Original Message----- > From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu > [mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of TheOldMole > Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2008 3:23 PM > To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] "political poetry" (was new on wordstrumpet) > > Written by the great Cowboy Jack Clement, performed by the > incomparable > Johnny Cash, > > There once was a musical troupe > A pickin' singin' folk group > They sang the mountain ballads > And the folk songs of our land > > They were long on musical ability > Folks thought they would go far > But political incompatibility led to their downfall > > Well, the one on the right was on the left > And the one in the middle was on the right > And the one on the left was in the middle > And the guy in the rear was a Methodist > > This musical aggregation toured the entire nation > Singing the traditional ballads > And the folk songs of our land > They performed with great virtuosity > And soon they were the rage > But political animosity prevailed upon the stage > > Well, the one on the right was on the left > And the one in the middle was on the right > And the one on the left was in the middle > And the guy in the rear burned his driver's license > > Well the curtain had ascended > A hush fell on the crowd > As thousands there were gathered to hear The folk songs of our land > But they took their politics seriously > And that night at the concert hall > As the audience watched deliriously > They had a free-for-all > > Well, the one on the right was on the bottom > And the one in the middle was on the top > And the one on the left got a broken arm > And the guy in the rear, said, "Oh dear" > > Now this should be a lesson if you plan to start a folk group > Don't go mixin' politics with the folk songs of our land > Just work on harmony and diction > Play your banjo well > And if you have political convictions keep them to yourself > > Now, the one on the left works in a bank > And the one in the middle drives a truck > The one on the right's an all-night deejay > And the guy in the rear got drafted > > > TheOldMole wrote: > > I love the Forster quote. The Johnny Cash is from "The One on the > > Right Was on the Left," in which political differences > break up a folk > > group. A funny song, but you're right...not good advice. I > don't put > > all that much of the political into my poetry -- you just have to > > follow where the words take you, and mine don't seem to > take me to the > > specifically political all that often, athough it's all about the > > world we live in, and the weird stuff that impinges on it. > But boy, I > > can't stay away from it in my fiction. "Nick and Jake" was > about the > > McCarthy era, the one in progress is set in the thirties, and is > > mostly about left wing WPA muralists. > > > > Jeff Newberry wrote: > >> Hi Rachel, > >> > >> How are you defining political? Do you mean broadly, as "of the > >> people?" Or perhaps "having to do with politics?" Or perhaps > >> "having to do with politics with a slant toward one's own > political > >> party?" Or perhaps, "not private?" > >> > >> I'm not being snarky. I just wonder. I've heard this > line before, > >> "All poetry is political." I suppose that depends on how > you define > >> "political." > >> > >> I have a great interest in this debate(?). Is poetry by nature > >> "political?" Again, I suppose it depends on how you want > to define > >> "political." Is language "political?" If you buy that line of > >> thinking, I suppose it is. Of course, my great curse is that I > >> always not only see but also feel some sympathy for every > side in a > >> debate, be it political(!) or private. > >> > >> Best, > >> > >> Jeff Newberry > >> > >> On Jan 16, 2008 1:15 PM, Rachel Loden >> > wrote: > >> > >> Thanks, Tad -- and I was very intrigued by your post "A Low > >> Dishonest > >> Decade": > >> > >> http://opusforty.blogspot.com/2008/01/low-dishonest-decade.html > >> > > >> > >> I agree with Forster, for the most part, but not with > the usually > >> astute > >> Johnny Cash. Folk song and politics are inextricably > mixed, unless > >> we want > >> to deep-six "This Land Is Your Land" or "Silver > Dagger" just for > >> example. > >> > >> It always makes me laugh when people say they're not > interested in > >> (what > >> they like to call) "political poetry." Did they > imagine there was > >> another > >> kind? Some fish don't see water, but they're swimming in it. > >> > >> On the other hand, I'm not much interested in what > often *passes* > >> for > >> political poetry -- agitprop and sloganeering, I mean. > >> > >> Rachel > >> > >> > -----Original Message----- > >> > From: TheOldMole [mailto: Opus40-01 at opus40.org > >> ] > >> > Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2008 8:20 AM > >> > To: r_loden at sbcglobal.net ; > >> NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry > >> > News & Views > >> > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] new on wordstrumpet: nixon vets the > >> > candidates &c. > >> > > >> > As a faithful wordstrumpeter, I had read this and loved it. > >> > > >> > Rachel Loden wrote: > >> > > > >> > > http://wordstrumpet.blogspot.com/ > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > * How Would Nixon Vote? Tricky D. Vets the Candidates > >> > > > >> > > * A Poem for Primaries: Milhous as King of the Ghosts > >> > > > >> > > * The Moist Lotus Open Along Acheron: Sappho, > psychopomp &c. > >> > > > >> > > * The Important Looking Men (with a Note from Mair?ard > >> Byrne) > >> > > > >> > > * Speechless: Woody Allen on the WGA strike; the > >> > "right-to-sing" state > >> > > > >> > > * Rose, Oh Pure Contradiction: Knox, Manguso & more > >> > > > >> > > * The More Things Change Dept.: Some Remarks on Humor > >> > by E.B. White > >> > > > >> > > * Susan Sontag: An Argument about Beauty > >> > > > >> > > * Concord in the Sixties: Hawthorne, the Alcotts, the > >> Civil War > >> > > > >> > > * Poetry and the Theory of Heartbreak > >> > > > >> > > * A Fresh Face, Somebody Who Understands: Nixon and > >> Rumsfeld > >> > > > >> > > * My Wicked Caddywumpus Ways: Blurb-Composition & > >> > other confusions > >> > > > >> > > * A Page from the Dangerfield Playbook: the Stephen T. > >> > Colbert Award > >> > > for the Literary Excellence > >> > > > >> > > * Poetry, Grimness, and Gallows Humor: Mlinko, Brecht, > >> > Lerner, Flarf > >> > > &c. > >> > > > >> > > * Adventures in Heresiology: Patrolling the > Perimeter of > >> the > >> > > Avant-garde > >> > > > >> > > * Academy of Fine Arts: Linh Dinh by Jonathan Hill > >> > > > >> > > * Poem in Spanish (with a Note from Paul Hoover) > >> > > > >> > > * M. A. Numminen Sings Wittgenstein > >> > > > >> > > http://wordstrumpet.blogspot.com/ > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > _______________________________________________ > >> > > New-Poetry mailing list > >> > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > >> > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > >> > > > >> > > >> > -- > >> > Tad Richards > >> > http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ > >> > http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ > >> > > >> > The moral is this: in American verse, > >> > The better you are, the pay is worse. > >> > --Corey Ford > >> > > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> New-Poetry mailing list > >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> -- > >> "Memory believes before knowing remembers. Believes longer than > >> recollects, longer than knowing even wonders." > >> ?William Faulkner, Light in August > >> > >> > >> http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com > >> > -------------------------------------------------------------- > ---------- > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> New-Poetry mailing list > >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > >> > > > > -- > Tad Richards > http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ > http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ > > The moral is this: in American verse, > The better you are, the pay is worse. > --Corey Ford > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > From Opus40-01 Wed Jan 16 19:41:49 2008 From: Opus40-01 (TheOldMole) Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 19:41:49 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] "political poetry" (was new on wordstrumpet) In-Reply-To: <013501c8589f$6b16f490$220110ac@GLASSCASTLE> References: <013501c8589f$6b16f490$220110ac@GLASSCASTLE> Message-ID: <478EA44D.8050402@opus40.org> Here's a reminiscence for you. My first time down in Nashville, trying to break in a s a songwriter. I met a guy named Art Sparer, who is sadly no longer with us, and whose couch I regularly stayed on when I revisited Nashville -- "the songwriters' couch," he called it. Art was a gentleman and a good friend, and he went out of his way to introduce me around town -- he knew everybody. Tanya Tucker, one evening in a cowboy bar, and in another out of the way tavern, he introduced me to John Prine, who was doing some serious drinking, invited me to come to recording session he was doing the next day. Drink talking, or did he mean it? Anyway, he gave me the address, I wrote it down, and I showed up the next afternoon at what turned out to be Cowboy Jack Clement's home and studio. Wow. But I came in, and everyone was nice to me, and Prine was recording. The song he recorded that day was "Let's Talk Dirty In Hawaiian," which you can find on Prine's German Afternoons and Lucky 13 albums, not to mention his massive The Full Johnny collection. The song was co-written by Prine and Fred Koller, whom I was to meet within the next couple of days, and who would become my closest friend in Nashville and frequent songwriting collaborator. Rachel Loden wrote: > Tad, that's wonderful -- now the whole thing makes sense to me, in the > context of this comic song. As I think you know, nobody's less enamored of > political orthodoxy than I am. Allergic to the stuff from babyhood, when I > was exposed to way too much of it from all sides. > > Political rigidities of the right and the left are mirrors of one another. > We all know this, yes? These people are vogueing, striking poses -- they're > not thinking. > > It didn't make sense that Johnny would be hectoring in that seemingly > humorless way but poking fun at human peccadilloes -- absolutely. > > Rachel > > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> [mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of TheOldMole >> Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2008 3:23 PM >> To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views >> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] "political poetry" (was new on wordstrumpet) >> >> Written by the great Cowboy Jack Clement, performed by the >> incomparable >> Johnny Cash, >> >> There once was a musical troupe >> A pickin' singin' folk group >> They sang the mountain ballads >> And the folk songs of our land >> >> They were long on musical ability >> Folks thought they would go far >> But political incompatibility led to their downfall >> >> Well, the one on the right was on the left >> And the one in the middle was on the right >> And the one on the left was in the middle >> And the guy in the rear was a Methodist >> >> This musical aggregation toured the entire nation >> Singing the traditional ballads >> And the folk songs of our land >> They performed with great virtuosity >> And soon they were the rage >> But political animosity prevailed upon the stage >> >> Well, the one on the right was on the left >> And the one in the middle was on the right >> And the one on the left was in the middle >> And the guy in the rear burned his driver's license >> >> Well the curtain had ascended >> A hush fell on the crowd >> As thousands there were gathered to hear The folk songs of our land >> But they took their politics seriously >> And that night at the concert hall >> As the audience watched deliriously >> They had a free-for-all >> >> Well, the one on the right was on the bottom >> And the one in the middle was on the top >> And the one on the left got a broken arm >> And the guy in the rear, said, "Oh dear" >> >> Now this should be a lesson if you plan to start a folk group >> Don't go mixin' politics with the folk songs of our land >> Just work on harmony and diction >> Play your banjo well >> And if you have political convictions keep them to yourself >> >> Now, the one on the left works in a bank >> And the one in the middle drives a truck >> The one on the right's an all-night deejay >> And the guy in the rear got drafted >> >> >> TheOldMole wrote: >> >>> I love the Forster quote. The Johnny Cash is from "The One on the >>> Right Was on the Left," in which political differences >>> >> break up a folk >> >>> group. A funny song, but you're right...not good advice. I >>> >> don't put >> >>> all that much of the political into my poetry -- you just have to >>> follow where the words take you, and mine don't seem to >>> >> take me to the >> >>> specifically political all that often, athough it's all about the >>> world we live in, and the weird stuff that impinges on it. >>> >> But boy, I >> >>> can't stay away from it in my fiction. "Nick and Jake" was >>> >> about the >> >>> McCarthy era, the one in progress is set in the thirties, and is >>> mostly about left wing WPA muralists. >>> >>> Jeff Newberry wrote: >>> >>>> Hi Rachel, >>>> >>>> How are you defining political? Do you mean broadly, as "of the >>>> people?" Or perhaps "having to do with politics?" Or perhaps >>>> "having to do with politics with a slant toward one's own >>>> >> political >> >>>> party?" Or perhaps, "not private?" >>>> >>>> I'm not being snarky. I just wonder. I've heard this >>>> >> line before, >> >>>> "All poetry is political." I suppose that depends on how >>>> >> you define >> >>>> "political." >>>> >>>> I have a great interest in this debate(?). Is poetry by nature >>>> "political?" Again, I suppose it depends on how you want >>>> >> to define >> >>>> "political." Is language "political?" If you buy that line of >>>> thinking, I suppose it is. Of course, my great curse is that I >>>> always not only see but also feel some sympathy for every >>>> >> side in a >> >>>> debate, be it political(!) or private. >>>> >>>> Best, >>>> >>>> Jeff Newberry >>>> >>>> On Jan 16, 2008 1:15 PM, Rachel Loden >>> > wrote: >>>> >>>> Thanks, Tad -- and I was very intrigued by your post "A Low >>>> Dishonest >>>> Decade": >>>> >>>> http://opusforty.blogspot.com/2008/01/low-dishonest-decade.html >>>> >>>> >> >> >>>> I agree with Forster, for the most part, but not with >>>> >> the usually >> >>>> astute >>>> Johnny Cash. Folk song and politics are inextricably >>>> >> mixed, unless >> >>>> we want >>>> to deep-six "This Land Is Your Land" or "Silver >>>> >> Dagger" just for >> >>>> example. >>>> >>>> It always makes me laugh when people say they're not >>>> >> interested in >> >>>> (what >>>> they like to call) "political poetry." Did they >>>> >> imagine there was >> >>>> another >>>> kind? Some fish don't see water, but they're swimming in it. >>>> >>>> On the other hand, I'm not much interested in what >>>> >> often *passes* >> >>>> for >>>> political poetry -- agitprop and sloganeering, I mean. >>>> >>>> Rachel >>>> >>>> > -----Original Message----- >>>> > From: TheOldMole [mailto: Opus40-01 at opus40.org >>>> ] >>>> > Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2008 8:20 AM >>>> > To: r_loden at sbcglobal.net ; >>>> NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry >>>> > News & Views >>>> > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] new on wordstrumpet: nixon vets the >>>> > candidates &c. >>>> > >>>> > As a faithful wordstrumpeter, I had read this and loved it. >>>> > >>>> > Rachel Loden wrote: >>>> > > >>>> > > http://wordstrumpet.blogspot.com/ >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > * How Would Nixon Vote? Tricky D. Vets the Candidates >>>> > > >>>> > > * A Poem for Primaries: Milhous as King of the Ghosts >>>> > > >>>> > > * The Moist Lotus Open Along Acheron: Sappho, >>>> >> psychopomp &c. >> >>>> > > >>>> > > * The Important Looking Men (with a Note from Mair?ard >>>> Byrne) >>>> > > >>>> > > * Speechless: Woody Allen on the WGA strike; the >>>> > "right-to-sing" state >>>> > > >>>> > > * Rose, Oh Pure Contradiction: Knox, Manguso & more >>>> > > >>>> > > * The More Things Change Dept.: Some Remarks on Humor >>>> > by E.B. White >>>> > > >>>> > > * Susan Sontag: An Argument about Beauty >>>> > > >>>> > > * Concord in the Sixties: Hawthorne, the Alcotts, the >>>> Civil War >>>> > > >>>> > > * Poetry and the Theory of Heartbreak >>>> > > >>>> > > * A Fresh Face, Somebody Who Understands: Nixon and >>>> Rumsfeld >>>> > > >>>> > > * My Wicked Caddywumpus Ways: Blurb-Composition & >>>> > other confusions >>>> > > >>>> > > * A Page from the Dangerfield Playbook: the Stephen T. >>>> > Colbert Award >>>> > > for the Literary Excellence >>>> > > >>>> > > * Poetry, Grimness, and Gallows Humor: Mlinko, Brecht, >>>> > Lerner, Flarf >>>> > > &c. >>>> > > >>>> > > * Adventures in Heresiology: Patrolling the >>>> >> Perimeter of >> >>>> the >>>> > > Avant-garde >>>> > > >>>> > > * Academy of Fine Arts: Linh Dinh by Jonathan Hill >>>> > > >>>> > > * Poem in Spanish (with a Note from Paul Hoover) >>>> > > >>>> > > * M. A. Numminen Sings Wittgenstein >>>> > > >>>> > > http://wordstrumpet.blogspot.com/ >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > _______________________________________________ >>>> > > New-Poetry mailing list >>>> > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>>> >> >> >>>> > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>>> > > >>>> > >>>> > -- >>>> > Tad Richards >>>> > http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ >>>> > http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ >>>> > >>>> > The moral is this: in American verse, >>>> > The better you are, the pay is worse. >>>> > --Corey Ford >>>> > >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> New-Poetry mailing list >>>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> "Memory believes before knowing remembers. Believes longer than >>>> recollects, longer than knowing even wonders." >>>> ?William Faulkner, Light in August >>>> >>>> >>>> http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com >>>> >>>> >> -------------------------------------------------------------- >> ---------- >> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> New-Poetry mailing list >>>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>>> >>>> >> -- >> Tad Richards >> http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ >> http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ >> >> The moral is this: in American verse, >> The better you are, the pay is worse. >> --Corey Ford >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ The moral is this: in American verse, The better you are, the pay is worse. --Corey Ford From r_loden Wed Jan 16 19:55:56 2008 From: r_loden (Rachel Loden) Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 16:55:56 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] "political poetry" (was new on wordstrumpet) In-Reply-To: <731bb17a0801161440y7cc03b28m4ddcbe0ecb9a9ca8@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <013601c858a3$b82a1ba0$220110ac@GLASSCASTLE> Hi Jeff, I shouldn't be permitted near a computer when I'm so tired -- but will try to intersperse comments: <> Not any of these, exactly, and most certainly not "having to do with politics with a slant toward one's own political party." I'm just saying that our experiences, and our perceptions of those experiences, don't occur in a vacuum. They're shaped in part by the conditions we encounter from the moment we're born. I'm not talking about a narrow view of politics or (I think and hope) a partisan one. I'm talking about the human condition as it's massaged and pummeled by a myriad of forces, starting with whether basic survival needs are being met. Sometimes when people say that their poetry "isn't political" they mean that they're not writing about ex-presidents or whatever. That's not what I mean by political. Classic New Yorker-style poetry, for instance, is very political, but in a completely unconscious way (although this is bound to change with Paul Muldoon). It's about flowers in a vase or touristing about in European cities or some other way of telegraphing that the life of the poet is being lived on a plane that partakes very little of the worries that bedevil most people. The poet is relieved of those worries, and is thus free to write (what he or she thinks is) "non-politically." But actually such poetry is as deeply embedded in political conditions as any other. I don't see how one can encounter our language as it's spoken and not know that it's political on the deepest level. Here's the OED on "woman": [OE. w?fmon(n, -man(n masc., later fem., pl. w?fmen(n, f. w?f woman, wife n. + mon(n, man(n human being, man n. Man = human being. The word has enormous authority, an authority "woman" can never have, and no amount of feminism ever changes that. It's built into the language and thus into how we think. Similarly, we have "black" moods (and if we do we should "lighten up"). Etc. etc. etc. How can language be other than political -- it's the living record of human thought. Or human cussedness. Or both. Hope this makes sense! I can't go on with it and should never have opened my trap in the first place. All best, Rachel From r_loden Wed Jan 16 20:55:34 2008 From: r_loden (Rachel Loden) Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 17:55:34 -0800 Subject: FW: [New-Poetry] 'political poetry' (was new on wordstrumpet) Message-ID: <013d01c858ac$0c93a140$220110ac@GLASSCASTLE> I'm forwarding this backchannel exchange, with Tad's permission. Do read his gem of a poem (link below): he's enormously skilled and, I think, criminally neglected. Tad wrote: What generally triggers poetry for me is some sort of sense of the strangeness of the world. Here's one sort of political poem, which took off from the idea of treason, which I always find intriguing, to What if the secrets you were selling to the enemy weren't exactly state secrets? -- http://www.cortlandreview.com/issue/17/richards17.html I replied: Tad, that's a really wonderful poem -- I've read it before and I love it even more now. I think a sense of the strangeness of the world is at the *heart* of truly political poetry. That's what it's all about. You really capture something there, and with enormous facility. From jforjames Wed Jan 16 21:07:09 2008 From: jforjames (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 21:07:09 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] "political poetry" (was new on wordstrumpet) In-Reply-To: <478EA44D.8050402@opus40.org> References: <013501c8589f$6b16f490$220110ac@GLASSCASTLE> <478EA44D.8050402@opus40.org> Message-ID: <8CA26C4CD0C513A-D1C-32D7@WEBMAIL-MC17.sysops.aol.com> And what about Folsum Prison Blues. Like Whitman I'm sure?Cash was large and contained multitudes. Finnegan ________________________________________________________________________ More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://webmail.aol.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Opus40-01 Wed Jan 16 21:21:59 2008 From: Opus40-01 (TheOldMole) Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 21:21:59 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] "political poetry" (was new on wordstrumpet) In-Reply-To: <8CA26C4CD0C513A-D1C-32D7@WEBMAIL-MC17.sysops.aol.com> References: <013501c8589f$6b16f490$220110ac@GLASSCASTLE> <478EA44D.8050402@opus40.org> <8CA26C4CD0C513A-D1C-32D7@WEBMAIL-MC17.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <478EBBC7.2090401@opus40.org> He didn't shy away from political songs. Don't forget "The Man in Black." And "Ira Hayes," which he didn't write but made his own -- the whole "Bitter Tears" album that it came from. Songs of poverty and natural disaster like "Five Feet High and Rising." Subversion of capitalism like "One Piece at a Time." And let's not forget that all gospel and spiritual songs are highly political. jforjames at aol.com wrote: > And what about Folsum Prison Blues. Like Whitman I'm sure Cash was > large and contained multitudes. > Finnegan > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail > ! > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ The moral is this: in American verse, The better you are, the pay is worse. --Corey Ford From mandolin Wed Jan 16 22:21:10 2008 From: mandolin (Michael Snider) Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 22:21:10 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] "political poetry" (was new on wordstrumpet) In-Reply-To: <478EBBC7.2090401@opus40.org> References: <013501c8589f$6b16f490$220110ac@GLASSCASTLE> <478EA44D.8050402@opus40.org> <8CA26C4CD0C513A-D1C-32D7@WEBMAIL-MC17.sysops.aol.com> <478EBBC7.2090401@opus40.org> Message-ID: <03E51075-AA78-441F-853B-15159FF7C32D@mac.com> On Jan 16, 2008, at 9:21 PM, TheOldMole wrote: > He didn't shy away from political songs. Don't forget "The Man in > Black." And "Ira Hayes," which he didn't write but made his own -- > the whole "Bitter Tears" album that it came from. Songs of poverty > and natural disaster like "Five Feet High and Rising." Subversion of > capitalism like "One Piece at a Time." > > And let's not forget that all gospel and spiritual songs are highly > political. And songs like Cash's "25 Minutes To Go" (http://www.cowboylyrics.com/lyrics/cash-johnny/25-minutes-to-go-828.html ), which he performed at Folsom Prison. Daimanda Galas uses it almost as an anthem in her anti-death penalty work. From peter.joseph.gloviczki Thu Jan 17 13:20:59 2008 From: peter.joseph.gloviczki (Peter Joseph Gloviczki) Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2008 12:20:59 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Recommending Poetry Presses? Message-ID: Hello everyone, I've just completed my first manuscript of poems, Experiential Learning. Now comes the exciting part, the process of beginning to search for a publisher. The collection is divided into three sections and covers a broad range of work, including haiku, sonnets and triolets, free verse and a chapbook length (26-page) poem. I'm wondering if anyone might recommend a press with a good track record that might be interested in a diverse collection of work such as this one. Poems in the manuscript have appeared, or are forthcoming, in Margie, Gertrude, Modern Haiku, elimae, Poetry Midwest, Xelas Magazine and elsewhere. Thanks in advance for your suggestions. Best, Peter wmfr.blogspot.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From millb Thu Jan 17 14:16:12 2008 From: millb (millb at aol.com) Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2008 14:16:12 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Recommending Poetry Presses? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8CA27548F0F4FA0-FC8-1C9E@webmail-md03.sysops.aol.com> Hi Peter. Maybe try submitting?your work to presses of poets you admire.? Like, for example, Copper Canyon Press.? Maybe make a stack of your favorite recent books and sort them by author and see which presses publish writers you read.? That's always a good starting point.? Another idea is to look at the literary magazines where you are publishing and notice which other contributors' work you like and see if they have books out.?? Good luck! Millicent MillicentBorgesAccardi.com -----Original Message----- From: Peter Joseph Gloviczki Bcc: millb at aol.com Sent: Thu, 17 Jan 2008 12:20 pm Subject: [New-Poetry] Recommending Poetry Presses? Hello everyone, I've just completed my first manuscript of poems, Experiential Learning. Now comes the exciting part, the process of beginning to search for a publisher. The collection is divided into three sections and covers a broad range of work, including haiku, sonnets and triolets, free verse and a chapbook length (26-page) poem. I'm wondering if anyone might recommend a press with a good track record that might be interested in a diverse collection of work such as this one. Poems in the manuscript have appeared, or are forthcoming, in Margie, Gertrude, Modern Haiku, elimae, Poetry Midwest, Xelas Magazine and elsewhere. Thanks in advance for your suggestions. Best, Peter wmfr.blogspot.com _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry ________________________________________________________________________ More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://webmail.aol.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From AlMaginnes Thu Jan 17 14:36:59 2008 From: AlMaginnes (AlMaginnes at aol.com) Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2008 14:36:59 EST Subject: [New-Poetry] Recommending Poetry Presses? Message-ID: A heads up--unless it's a contest winner that they're contractually obligated to print, Copper Canyon doesn't look at unsolicited first books. At least that's what they told me way back in hte day. Onerous as it is, the contest route is not a bad way to get your feet wet. And, of course, if you know someone at a press that helps. **************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape. http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jeff.newberry Thu Jan 17 14:50:13 2008 From: jeff.newberry (Jeff Newberry) Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2008 14:50:13 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Recommending Poetry Presses? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <731bb17a0801171150g16c1412fo250d11be7d91172a@mail.gmail.com> Most of the poets I met when I was in grad school at UGA all had their first books come out via the contest route: Kirsten Kashock, Sabrina Orah Mark, Ed Pavlic, Danielle Pafunda (I think . . .) Anywho, from what almost every poet/editor tells me, the contest route is the way to go for a first book. Best, Jeff Newberry On Jan 17, 2008 2:36 PM, wrote: > A heads up--unless it's a contest winner that they're contractually > obligated to print, Copper Canyon doesn't look at unsolicited first books. > At least that's what they told me way back in hte day. > > Onerous as it is, the contest route is not a bad way to get your feet wet. > And, of course, if you know someone at a press that helps. > > > > ------------------------------ > Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shapein the new year. > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- "Memory believes before knowing remembers. Believes longer than recollects, longer than knowing even wonders." ?William Faulkner, Light in August http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jeff.newberry Thu Jan 17 15:01:27 2008 From: jeff.newberry (Jeff Newberry) Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2008 15:01:27 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] The Year in Poetry: 2007 Message-ID: <731bb17a0801171201s2b73f525rcf25c19eeca29870@mail.gmail.com> Has anyone else seen this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_in_poetry ? I was fooling around (read that: wasting time) and stumbled across it. Best, Jeff Newberry -- "Memory believes before knowing remembers. Believes longer than recollects, longer than knowing even wonders." ?William Faulkner, Light in August http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From millb Thu Jan 17 15:04:00 2008 From: millb (millb at aol.com) Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2008 15:04:00 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Recommending Poetry Presses? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8CA275B3C180E04-9DC-20C8@Webmail-mg15.sysops.aol.com> I've also heard that certain presses don't publish first manuscripts outside of contests, but I think what is "formally" stated and what is practised are two different animals.? If you find a press you like, I'd query the editor first--just to see.? And, absolutely, if you KNOW someone, or if an editor at one of the places where you've pubished individual poems also works in some capacity at a press, that's good too. -----Original Message----- From: AlMaginnes at aol.com To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Thu, 17 Jan 2008 11:36 am Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Recommending Poetry Presses? A heads up--unless it's a contest winner that they're contractually obligated to print, Copper Canyon doesn't look at unsolicited first books. At least that's what they told me way back in hte day. ? Onerous as it is, the contest route is not a bad way to get your feet wet. And, of course, if you know someone at a press that helps. Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape in the new year. _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry ________________________________________________________________________ More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://webmail.aol.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From peter.joseph.gloviczki Thu Jan 17 15:08:41 2008 From: peter.joseph.gloviczki (Peter Joseph Gloviczki) Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2008 14:08:41 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Recommending Poetry Presses? In-Reply-To: <8CA275B3C180E04-9DC-20C8@Webmail-mg15.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CA275B3C180E04-9DC-20C8@Webmail-mg15.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: Thanks, Millicent. I'll start spreading the word. I've also blogged about it at my blog . Feel free to take a look if you'd like Peter On Jan 17, 2008 2:04 PM, wrote: > I've also heard that certain presses don't publish first manuscripts > outside of contests, but I think what is "formally" stated and what is > practised are two different animals. If you find a press you like, I'd > query the editor first--just to see. And, absolutely, if you KNOW someone, > or if an editor at one of the places where you've pubished individual poems > also works in some capacity at a press, that's good too. > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AlMaginnes at aol.com > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Sent: Thu, 17 Jan 2008 11:36 am > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Recommending Poetry Presses? > > A heads up--unless it's a contest winner that they're contractually > obligated to print, Copper Canyon doesn't look at unsolicited first books. > At least that's what they told me way back in hte day. > > Onerous as it is, the contest route is not a bad way to get your feet wet. > And, of course, if you know someone at a press that helps. > > > > ------------------------------ > Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shapein the new year. > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing listNew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.eduhttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > ------------------------------ > More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail > ! > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini Thu Jan 17 15:23:33 2008 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2008 21:23:33 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] The Year in Poetry: 2007 References: <731bb17a0801171201s2b73f525rcf25c19eeca29870@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <008f01c85946$d53c70f0$40ee3652@ANNY> So many people (I do know some), otherwise my general feeling is that I feel dizzzzzzzy. ----- Original Message ----- From: Jeff Newberry To: NewPoetry Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2008 9:01 PM Subject: [New-Poetry] The Year in Poetry: 2007 Has anyone else seen this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_in_poetry ? I was fooling around (read that: wasting time) and stumbled across it. Best, Jeff Newberry -- "Memory believes before knowing remembers. Believes longer than recollects, longer than knowing even wonders." ?William Faulkner, Light in August http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard Thu Jan 17 15:38:50 2008 From: halvard (Halvard Johnson) Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2008 14:38:50 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Recommending Poetry Presses? In-Reply-To: <731bb17a0801171150g16c1412fo250d11be7d91172a@mail.gmail.com> References: <731bb17a0801171150g16c1412fo250d11be7d91172a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <41A94A75-92EC-4EDF-ACA0-0C5D6A3CB8BA@earthlink.net> I'd say save the money you'd spend entering contests and publish it yourself. Hal "Some dangerous poem is always stalking you." --Heberto Padilla Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html On Jan 17, 2008, at 1:50 PM, Jeff Newberry wrote: > Most of the poets I met when I was in grad school at UGA all had > their first books come out via the contest route: Kirsten Kashock, > Sabrina Orah Mark, Ed Pavlic, Danielle Pafunda (I think . . .) > > Anywho, from what almost every poet/editor tells me, the contest > route is the way to go for a first book. > > Best, > Jeff Newberry > > On Jan 17, 2008 2:36 PM, wrote: > A heads up--unless it's a contest winner that they're contractually > obligated to print, Copper Canyon doesn't look at unsolicited first > books. At least that's what they told me way back in hte day. > > Onerous as it is, the contest route is not a bad way to get your > feet wet. And, of course, if you know someone at a press that helps. > > > > Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape in the new year. > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > -- > "Memory believes before knowing remembers. Believes longer than > recollects, longer than knowing even wonders." > ?William Faulkner, Light in August > > > http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cervantes.james Thu Jan 17 16:49:22 2008 From: cervantes.james (James Cervantes) Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2008 14:49:22 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Recommending Poetry Presses? In-Reply-To: <41A94A75-92EC-4EDF-ACA0-0C5D6A3CB8BA@earthlink.net> References: <731bb17a0801171150g16c1412fo250d11be7d91172a@mail.gmail.com> <41A94A75-92EC-4EDF-ACA0-0C5D6A3CB8BA@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <648208b60801171349q2ed0f165v91b3a0adfc8fb80b@mail.gmail.com> I hear that scalpers at AWP will be selling badges + first book publication + one (1) favorable review for a cool grand. - Jim On 1/17/08, Halvard Johnson wrote: > I'd say save the money you'd spend entering contests > and publish it yourself. > > Hal > > > "Some dangerous poem is always stalking you." > --Heberto Padilla > > Halvard Johnson > ================ > halvard at earthlink.net > http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.comhttp://www.hamiltonstone.org > http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html > > > On Jan 17, 2008, at 1:50 PM, Jeff Newberry wrote: > > Most of the poets I met when I was in grad school at UGA all had their first > books come out via the contest route: Kirsten Kashock, Sabrina Orah Mark, > Ed Pavlic, Danielle Pafunda (I think . . .) > > Anywho, from what almost every poet/editor tells me, the contest route is > the way to go for a first book. > > Best, > Jeff Newberry > > On Jan 17, 2008 2:36 PM, wrote: > > > > > > A heads up--unless it's a contest winner that they're contractually > obligated to print, Copper Canyon doesn't look at unsolicited first books. > At least that's what they told me way back in hte day. > > > > Onerous as it is, the contest route is not a bad way to get your feet wet. > And, of course, if you know someone at a press that helps. > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape in the new year. > > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > > > > -- > "Memory believes before knowing remembers. Believes longer than recollects, > longer than knowing even wonders." > ?William Faulkner, Light in August > > > http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > From bobgrumman Thu Jan 17 17:30:53 2008 From: bobgrumman (Bob Grumman) Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2008 17:30:53 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Recommending Poetry Presses? In-Reply-To: <41A94A75-92EC-4EDF-ACA0-0C5D6A3CB8BA@earthlink.net> References: <731bb17a0801171150g16c1412fo250d11be7d91172a@mail.gmail.com> <41A94A75-92EC-4EDF-ACA0-0C5D6A3CB8BA@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <478FD71D.6040505@nut-n-but.net> Halvard Johnson wrote: > I'd say save the money you'd spend entering contests > and publish it yourself. > > Hal > Yikes, Hal, we haven't gotten through the first month of 2008, yet I've already found something of yours to agree with--emphatically. But don't spread the advice. My press is about to have a contest. Every entry guaranteed a first-place tie, with a prize of $5. No entry fee, but there is a handling change of $50 per poem. --Bob From anny.ballardini Thu Jan 17 17:37:56 2008 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2008 23:37:56 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Recommending Poetry Presses? References: <731bb17a0801171150g16c1412fo250d11be7d91172a@mail.gmail.com><41A94A75-92EC-4EDF-ACA0-0C5D6A3CB8BA@earthlink.net> <478FD71D.6040505@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <013d01c85959$9bc5ebe0$40ee3652@ANNY> You mean there is a "handling (ex)change of $50 per poem" i.e. you give fifty dollars for every poem sent to you? series: the deaf and the blind in conversation From: "Bob Grumman" Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2008 11:30 PM > > > Halvard Johnson wrote: >> I'd say save the money you'd spend entering contests >> and publish it yourself. >> >> Hal >> > Yikes, Hal, we haven't gotten through the first month of 2008, yet I've > already found something of yours to agree with--emphatically. But don't > spread the advice. My press is about to have a contest. Every entry > guaranteed a first-place tie, with a prize of $5. No entry fee, but there > is a handling change of $50 per poem. > --Bob From halvard Thu Jan 17 19:39:11 2008 From: halvard (Halvard Johnson) Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2008 18:39:11 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Recommending Poetry Presses? In-Reply-To: <478FD71D.6040505@nut-n-but.net> References: <731bb17a0801171150g16c1412fo250d11be7d91172a@mail.gmail.com> <41A94A75-92EC-4EDF-ACA0-0C5D6A3CB8BA@earthlink.net> <478FD71D.6040505@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <64A59D90-040C-492E-ACEE-1D536CE3CB23@earthlink.net> This might just be our year, Bob. Say, you're not that fellow that used to go around various little towns in California putting ads in the papers, giving a PO number, and saying "Last chance! Send your dollar!" Then he'd collect the mail for a week or so and skip town. Course a dollar was really worth something in those days. Hal Braised pork bun (Taiwanese style) Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html On Jan 17, 2008, at 4:30 PM, Bob Grumman wrote: > > > Halvard Johnson wrote: >> I'd say save the money you'd spend entering contests >> and publish it yourself. >> >> Hal >> > Yikes, Hal, we haven't gotten through the first month of 2008, yet > I've already found something of yours to agree with--emphatically. > But don't spread the advice. My press is about to have a contest. > Every entry guaranteed a first-place tie, with a prize of $5. No > entry fee, but there is a handling change of $50 per poem. > --Bob > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From millb Thu Jan 17 19:41:42 2008 From: millb (millb at aol.com) Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2008 19:41:42 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Recommending Poetry Presses? In-Reply-To: <64A59D90-040C-492E-ACEE-1D536CE3CB23@earthlink.net> References: <731bb17a0801171150g16c1412fo250d11be7d91172a@mail.gmail.com> <41A94A75-92EC-4EDF-ACA0-0C5D6A3CB8BA@earthlink.net> <478FD71D.6040505@nut-n-but.net> <64A59D90-040C-492E-ACEE-1D536CE3CB23@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <8CA278207A4650A-17B8-30AA@FWM-D20.sysops.aol.com> I always liked the idea of getting a million people to send me a dollar. . . -----Original Message----- From: Halvard Johnson Bcc: millb at aol.com Sent: Thu, 17 Jan 2008 4:39 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Recommending Poetry Presses? This might just be our year, Bob. Say, you're not that fellow? that used to go around various little towns in California putting? ads in the papers, giving a PO number, and saying "Last chance!? Send your dollar!" Then he'd collect the mail for a week or so? and skip town.? ? Course a dollar was really worth something in those days.? ? Hal? ? Braised pork bun (Taiwanese style)? ? Halvard Johnson? ================? halvard at earthlink.net? http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html? http://entropyandme.blogspot.com? http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com? http://www.hamiltonstone.org? http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html? ? On Jan 17, 2008, at 4:30 PM, Bob Grumman wrote:? ? >? >? > Halvard Johnson wrote:? >> I'd say save the money you'd spend entering contests? >> and publish it yourself.? >>? >> Hal? >>? > Yikes, Hal, we haven't gotten through the first month of 2008, yet > I've already found something of yours to agree with--emphatically. > But don't spread the advice. My press is about to have a contest. > Every entry guaranteed a first-place tie, with a prize of $5. No > entry fee, but there is a handling change of $50 per poem.? > --Bob? >? > _______________________________________________? > New-Poetry mailing list? > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu? > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry? ? _______________________________________________? New-Poetry mailing list? New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu? http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry? ________________________________________________________________________ More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://webmail.aol.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman Thu Jan 17 21:40:13 2008 From: bobgrumman (Bob Grumman) Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2008 21:40:13 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Recommending Poetry Presses? In-Reply-To: <013d01c85959$9bc5ebe0$40ee3652@ANNY> References: <731bb17a0801171150g16c1412fo250d11be7d91172a@mail.gmail.com><41A94A75-92EC-4EDF-ACA0-0C5D6A3CB8BA@earthlink.net> <478FD71D.6040505@nut-n-but.net> <013d01c85959$9bc5ebe0$40ee3652@ANNY> Message-ID: <4790118D.6090608@nut-n-but.net> Ha ha ha. (Chee, I wish I could type a single post without mistakes like that.) --Cpc Anny Ballardini wrote: > You mean there is a "handling (ex)change of $50 per poem" i.e. you > give fifty dollars for every poem sent to you? > > series: > the deaf and the blind in conversation > > From: "Bob Grumman" > Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2008 11:30 PM > > >> >> >> Halvard Johnson wrote: >>> I'd say save the money you'd spend entering contests >>> and publish it yourself. >>> >>> Hal >>> >> Yikes, Hal, we haven't gotten through the first month of 2008, yet >> I've already found something of yours to agree with--emphatically. >> But don't spread the advice. My press is about to have a contest. >> Every entry guaranteed a first-place tie, with a prize of $5. No >> entry fee, but there is a handling change of $50 per poem. >> --Bob > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > From Opus40-01 Thu Jan 17 21:43:01 2008 From: Opus40-01 (TheOldMole) Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2008 21:43:01 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] What they look for Message-ID: <47901235.2010509@opus40.org> Here's Vince Gotera of North American Review, from a Facebook list, on what turns him off: Okay ... for me, the "turn-off" is different for each poem I ultimately reject. Here are a few immediate turn-offs, in no particular order: ? Botched ending ... forced, too explanatory, too "universalized" ? Clumsy use of form ... for example, if sonnet or sestina, etc. ? Slow getting going ... should rock from first line down ? Too much full rhyme ... I prefer slant rhyme ? Uninformed line breaks ... be aware of lineation effects ? Abstract or image-less ... unless experimental ? Superficial topic or handling ? Obviously unaware of poetic tradition(s) ? Cover letter explains poem ... inexperienced submitter ? Poem sent with vita or r?sum? ... very inexperienced submitter ? Says "copyright ..." ... does writer think I'll steal the poem? ? Centered lines ... unless important for theme ? Badly edited ... errors, typos, grammar, etc. ? Font too small ... many editors are older and have old eyes ? Monotype font or font too fancy ... hard to read quickly ? Pseudonyms ... let's back up our writing with our names, ppl ? Handwritten ... usually from prisoners, though I've accepted poems by prisoners. -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ The moral is this: in American verse, The better you are, the pay is worse. --Corey Ford From GrahamD Thu Jan 17 23:19:08 2008 From: GrahamD (David Graham) Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2008 22:19:08 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Idle thought Message-ID: <451C6A2E-D9CD-42EC-AC04-71FCCB461BBF@ripon.edu> After Chic Young, the cartoonist who drew the strip *Blondie*, died, his son took over. His son is named Dean Young. Hmmmmmm. ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/About%20Me.html Poetry Library: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Rsgwynn1 Thu Jan 17 23:28:35 2008 From: Rsgwynn1 (Rsgwynn1 at cs.com) Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2008 23:28:35 EST Subject: [New-Poetry] Idle thought Message-ID: In a message dated 1/17/2008 10:19:21 PM Central Standard Time, GrahamD at ripon.edu writes: > > After Chic Young, the cartoonist who drew the strip *Blondie*, died, his son > took over. > > His son is named Dean Young. > > > Hmmmmmm. > > He does a good job. Hasn't changed the hairstyles either. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames Fri Jan 18 09:54:52 2008 From: jforjames (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 09:54:52 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] NBCC nominations In-Reply-To: <4790118D.6090608@nut-n-but.net> References: <731bb17a0801171150g16c1412fo250d11be7d91172a@mail.gmail.com><41A94A75-92EC-4EDF-ACA0-0C5D6A3CB8BA@earthlink.net> <478FD71D.6040505@nut-n-but.net> <013d01c85959$9bc5ebe0$40ee3652@ANNY> <4790118D.6090608@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <8CA27F93720E4E2-B70-2E1C@webmail-dd03.sysops.aol.com> I noticed in those recent Nat'l Book Critics Circle nominations, out of 5 poetry titles selected, Flood Editions and Graywolf scored 2 each. That' s an?impressive %? for each press unless the editors of the two presses somehow influenced the process. http://www.floodeditions.com/about.html http://www.graywolfpress.org/Latest_News/100/ Finnegan ________________________________________________________________________ More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://webmail.aol.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From skip Fri Jan 18 10:42:44 2008 From: skip (Skip Fox) Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 09:42:44 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Recommending Poetry Presses? In-Reply-To: <478FD71D.6040505@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <000101c859e8$cae6d7b0$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> Entering your poetry into a contest always seemed to me to be like entering your mother in a wet tee-shirt contest. (Not a pretty sight in a number of ways.) -----Original Message----- From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Bob Grumman Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2008 4:31 PM To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Recommending Poetry Presses? Halvard Johnson wrote: > I'd say save the money you'd spend entering contests > and publish it yourself. > > Hal > Yikes, Hal, we haven't gotten through the first month of 2008, yet I've already found something of yours to agree with--emphatically. But don't spread the advice. My press is about to have a contest. Every entry guaranteed a first-place tie, with a prize of $5. No entry fee, but there is a handling change of $50 per poem. --Bob _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From jforjames Fri Jan 18 10:59:56 2008 From: jforjames (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 10:59:56 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Whitman's early notebook Message-ID: <8CA28024E3C6AB9-4D8-3259@webmail-me01.sysops.aol.com> http://webdelsol.com/Double_Room/issue_three/Walt_Whitman.html A new transcription from the earliest notebook of Walt Whitman's Leaves of Grass containing numerous corrections and previously unpublished passages. ________________________________________________________________________ More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://webmail.aol.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From AlMaginnes Fri Jan 18 11:07:03 2008 From: AlMaginnes (AlMaginnes at aol.com) Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 11:07:03 EST Subject: [New-Poetry] Recommending Poetry Presses? Message-ID: There's a lot to be said against contests, but the fact is that for many poets it's pretty much the only sot, long as it is. With presses increasingly going to contest route and those that don't stocked to the gills, sometimes you have to hold your nose and go ahead (I was looking for a mom in a wet T-shirt contest metaphor, but I don't think I'm well enough to go there). **************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape. http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard Fri Jan 18 11:16:53 2008 From: halvard (Halvard Johnson) Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 10:16:53 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Recommending Poetry Presses? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3DBC2A3C-3479-4FC3-BAD5-3AC985397FA1@earthlink.net> That's nonsense, unless, of course, you're averse to online publication. There are any number of ways to publish collections online at no cost beyond that of being online. One could do it at blogspot if one cared to. Hal "Theory, like mist on eyeglasses, obscures vision." --Charlie Chan Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html On Jan 18, 2008, at 10:07 AM, AlMaginnes at aol.com wrote: > There's a lot to be said against contests, but the fact is that for > many poets it's pretty much the only sot, long as it is. With > presses increasingly going to contest route and those that don't > stocked to the gills, sometimes you have to hold your nose and go > ahead (I was looking for a mom in a wet T-shirt contest metaphor, > but I don't think I'm well enough to go there). > > > > Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape in the new year. > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From peter.joseph.gloviczki Fri Jan 18 12:15:57 2008 From: peter.joseph.gloviczki (Peter Joseph Gloviczki) Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 11:15:57 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Recommending Poetry Presses? In-Reply-To: <3DBC2A3C-3479-4FC3-BAD5-3AC985397FA1@earthlink.net> References: <3DBC2A3C-3479-4FC3-BAD5-3AC985397FA1@earthlink.net> Message-ID: Morning, everyone! I think that there are, rightly or wrongly, preconceived notions about print publications as more reputable than online publications. I tend to prefer print publications, mostly because I like knowing that someone made the decision to spend money printing out what I sent them. I also like the ability to hold a printed book in my hand. But, in terms of audience, you can't beat the possibility for millions of viewers/readers of your work online. So, in the end, I think it's up to the poet to decide what he/she thinks is the best way to present work. Best, Peter wmfr.blogspot.com On Jan 18, 2008 10:16 AM, Halvard Johnson wrote: > That's nonsense, unless, of course, you're averse to online publication. > There are any number of ways > to publish collections online at no cost beyond that > of being online. One could do it at blogspot if one > cared to. > > Hal > > "Theory, like mist on eyeglasses, > obscures vision." > --Charlie Chan > > Halvard Johnson > ================ > halvard at earthlink.net > http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > http://www.hamiltonstone.org > http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html > > > > On Jan 18, 2008, at 10:07 AM, AlMaginnes at aol.com wrote: > > There's a lot to be said against contests, but the fact is that for many > poets it's pretty much the only sot, long as it is. With presses > increasingly going to contest route and those that don't stocked to the > gills, sometimes you have to hold your nose and go ahead (I was looking for > a mom in a wet T-shirt contest metaphor, but I don't think I'm well enough > to go there). > > > > ------------------------------ > Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shapein the new year. > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard Fri Jan 18 12:23:16 2008 From: halvard (Halvard Johnson) Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 11:23:16 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Recommending Poetry Presses? In-Reply-To: References: <3DBC2A3C-3479-4FC3-BAD5-3AC985397FA1@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <66B541D8-F010-4FD9-B5C1-CA1B1941CFD3@earthlink.net> Ah, I've got opposable thumbs too, but there's no book as warm as a laptop in one's lap. Hal, also not averse to other's spending of their money "Always treat language like a dangerous toy." --Anselm Hollo Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html On Jan 18, 2008, at 11:15 AM, Peter Joseph Gloviczki wrote: > Morning, everyone! > > I think that there are, rightly or wrongly, preconceived notions > about print publications as more reputable than online publications. > I tend to prefer print publications, mostly because I like knowing > that someone made the decision to spend money printing out what I > sent them. I also like the ability to hold a printed book in my hand. > > But, in terms of audience, you can't beat the possibility for > millions of viewers/readers of your work online. So, in the end, I > think it's up to the poet to decide what he/she thinks is the best > way to present work. > > Best, Peter > > wmfr.blogspot.com > > On Jan 18, 2008 10:16 AM, Halvard Johnson > wrote: > That's nonsense, unless, of course, you're averse to > online publication. There are any number of ways > to publish collections online at no cost beyond that > of being online. One could do it at blogspot if one > cared to. > > Hal > > "Theory, like mist on eyeglasses, > obscures vision." > --Charlie Chan > > Halvard Johnson > ================ > halvard at earthlink.net > http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > http://www.hamiltonstone.org > http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html > > > > On Jan 18, 2008, at 10:07 AM, AlMaginnes at aol.com wrote: > >> There's a lot to be said against contests, but the fact is that for >> many poets it's pretty much the only sot, long as it is. With >> presses increasingly going to contest route and those that don't >> stocked to the gills, sometimes you have to hold your nose and go >> ahead (I was looking for a mom in a wet T-shirt contest metaphor, >> but I don't think I'm well enough to go there). >> >> >> >> Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape in the new year. >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From peter.joseph.gloviczki Fri Jan 18 12:48:15 2008 From: peter.joseph.gloviczki (Peter Joseph Gloviczki) Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 11:48:15 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Recommending Poetry Presses? In-Reply-To: <66B541D8-F010-4FD9-B5C1-CA1B1941CFD3@earthlink.net> References: <3DBC2A3C-3479-4FC3-BAD5-3AC985397FA1@earthlink.net> <66B541D8-F010-4FD9-B5C1-CA1B1941CFD3@earthlink.net> Message-ID: A fair point, Hal, but there is another question worth pondering when it comes to online poetry zines -- could a poet/teacher get tenure through just online publications? I'm not sure. This is only one measure of success, certainly, but it's not an insignificant one. I also think that the amount of time and money and energy that it takes produce and distribute a print publication, lends itself to a perception that print journals have somewhat higher standing, in general. That said, I love online zines and read them regularly... What do others think? Peter On Jan 18, 2008 11:23 AM, Halvard Johnson wrote: > Ah, I've got opposable thumbs too, but there's no bookas warm as a laptop > in one's lap. > > Hal, also not averse to other's spending of their money > > "Always treat language like a dangerous toy." > --Anselm Hollo > > Halvard Johnson > ================ > halvard at earthlink.net > http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > http://www.hamiltonstone.org > http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html > > > On Jan 18, 2008, at 11:15 AM, Peter Joseph Gloviczki wrote: > > Morning, everyone! > > I think that there are, rightly or wrongly, preconceived notions about > print publications as more reputable than online publications. I tend to > prefer print publications, mostly because I like knowing that someone made > the decision to spend money printing out what I sent them. I also like the > ability to hold a printed book in my hand. > > But, in terms of audience, you can't beat the possibility for millions of > viewers/readers of your work online. So, in the end, I think it's up to the > poet to decide what he/she thinks is the best way to present work. > > Best, Peter > > wmfr.blogspot.com > > On Jan 18, 2008 10:16 AM, Halvard Johnson wrote: > > > That's nonsense, unless, of course, you're averse to online > > publication. There are any number of ways > > to publish collections online at no cost beyond that > > of being online. One could do it at blogspot if one > > cared to. > > > > Hal > > > > "Theory, like mist on eyeglasses, > > obscures vision." > > --Charlie Chan > > > > Halvard Johnson > > ================ > > halvard at earthlink.net > > http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html > > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > > http://www.hamiltonstone.org > > http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html > > > > > > > > On Jan 18, 2008, at 10:07 AM, AlMaginnes at aol.com wrote: > > > > There's a lot to be said against contests, but the fact is that for > > many poets it's pretty much the only sot, long as it is. With presses > > increasingly going to contest route and those that don't stocked to the > > gills, sometimes you have to hold your nose and go ahead (I was looking for > > a mom in a wet T-shirt contest metaphor, but I don't think I'm well enough > > to go there). > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shapein the new year. > > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From millb Fri Jan 18 13:02:44 2008 From: millb (millb at aol.com) Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 13:02:44 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Recommending Poetry Presses? In-Reply-To: References: <3DBC2A3C-3479-4FC3-BAD5-3AC985397FA1@earthlink.net> <66B541D8-F010-4FD9-B5C1-CA1B1941CFD3@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <8CA281375E1A36E-900-657@MBLK-M31.sysops.aol.com> Hi Well, before you self-publish or premier your first MSS online, I'd consider a few items. 1) Most "first book" poetry prizes exclude writers who have self-published (so if you THINK you might ever enter a first book competition, maybe hold off?self-publishing for now) 2) As far as I know these non-traditional modes of publication do not count towards tenure or as credits when applying for fellowships or awards 3) I've never seen a non-traditional poetry book reviewed in a magazine or journal (which is not to say that they haven't been review--but I cannot recall ever having seen such a poetry "book" reviewed) 4) I've never seen a non-traditional poetry book win a major or even a minor literary award Perhaps we're in a transition stage, but, for now, I think that the above items are valid. Cheers, Mill -----Original Message----- From: Peter Joseph Gloviczki Bcc: millb at aol.com Sent: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 11:48 am Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Recommending Poetry Presses? A fair point, Hal, but there is another question worth pondering when it comes to online poetry zines -- could a poet/teacher get tenure through just online publications? I'm not sure. This is only one measure of success, certainly, but it's not an insignificant one. I also think that the amount of time and money and energy that it takes produce and distribute a print publication, lends itself to a perception that print journals have somewhat higher standing, in general. That said, I love online zines and read them regularly... What do others think? Peter On Jan 18, 2008 11:23 AM, Halvard Johnson wrote: Ah, I've got opposable thumbs too, but there's no book as warm as a laptop in one's lap. Hal, also not averse to other's spending of their money "Always treat language like a dangerous toy." --Anselm Hollo Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html http://entropyandme.blogspot.com? http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html On Jan 18, 2008, at 11:15 AM, Peter Joseph Gloviczki wrote: Morning, everyone! I think that there are, rightly or wrongly, preconceived notions about print publications as more reputable than online publications. I tend to prefer print publications, mostly because I like knowing that someone made the decision to spend money printing out what I sent them. I also like the ability to hold a printed book in my hand. But, in terms of audience, you can't beat the possibility for millions of viewers/readers of your work online. So, in the end, I think it's up to the poet to decide what he/she thinks is the best way to present work. Best, Peter wmfr.blogspot.com On Jan 18, 2008 10:16 AM, Halvard Johnson < halvard at earthlink.net > wrote: That's nonsense, unless, of course, you're averse to? online publication. There are any number of ways to publish collections online at no cost beyond that of being online. One could do it at blogspot if one cared to. Hal "Theory, like mist on eyeglasses, ?obscures vision." --Charlie Chan Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html http://entropyandme.blogspot.com ? http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html On Jan 18, 2008, at 10:07 AM, AlMaginnes at aol.com wrote: There's a lot to be said against contests, but the fact is that for many poets it's pretty much the only sot, long as it is. With presses increasingly going to contest route and those that don't stocked to the gills, sometimes you have to hold your nose and go ahead (I was looking for a mom in a wet T-shirt contest metaphor, but I don't think I'm well enough to go there). Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape in the new year. _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry ________________________________________________________________________ More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://webmail.aol.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From AlMaginnes Fri Jan 18 13:05:55 2008 From: AlMaginnes (AlMaginnes at aol.com) Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 13:05:55 EST Subject: [New-Poetry] Recommending Poetry Presses? Message-ID: The main thing, as far as I'm concerned, is distribution. Granted with Amazon and the web, things are easier than they used to be, but I still buy an awful lot of books because I pick them up in the store, read a few poems and decide this is worth my money. Unless you have infinite resources and energy, it's hard to get your book into bookstores outside your immediate area without a publisher who has a hookup with a distributor. **************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape. http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cervantes.james Fri Jan 18 13:06:42 2008 From: cervantes.james (James Cervantes) Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 11:06:42 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Recommending Poetry Presses? In-Reply-To: References: <3DBC2A3C-3479-4FC3-BAD5-3AC985397FA1@earthlink.net> <66B541D8-F010-4FD9-B5C1-CA1B1941CFD3@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <648208b60801181006u478a9619ib6310d8277bbfa50@mail.gmail.com> Well, that's the main reason behind the prefernce for a print book: being vetted by a committee and/or judge and the effort and expense of production, all with an eye toward a step up the academic and MFA ladder. The big plus to online publication is that nothing is ever out of print. - Jim On 1/18/08, Peter Joseph Gloviczki wrote: > A fair point, Hal, but there is another question worth pondering when it > comes to online poetry zines -- could a poet/teacher get tenure through just > online publications? I'm not sure. This is only one measure of success, > certainly, but it's not an insignificant one. > > I also think that the amount of time and money and energy that it takes > produce and distribute a print publication, lends itself to a perception > that print journals have somewhat higher standing, in general. > > That said, I love online zines and read them regularly... > > What do others think? > > Peter > > > On Jan 18, 2008 11:23 AM, Halvard Johnson wrote: > > > > Ah, I've got opposable thumbs too, but there's no book > > as warm as a laptop in one's lap. > > > > > > Hal, also not averse to other's spending of their money > > > > > > > > > > "Always treat language like a dangerous toy." > > --Anselm Hollo > > > > > > > > Halvard Johnson > > ================ > > halvard at earthlink.net > > http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html > > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > http://www.hamiltonstone.org > > > > http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Jan 18, 2008, at 11:15 AM, Peter Joseph Gloviczki wrote: > > > > Morning, everyone! > > > > I think that there are, rightly or wrongly, preconceived notions about > print publications as more reputable than online publications. I tend to > prefer print publications, mostly because I like knowing that someone made > the decision to spend money printing out what I sent them. I also like the > ability to hold a printed book in my hand. > > > > But, in terms of audience, you can't beat the possibility for millions of > viewers/readers of your work online. So, in the end, I think it's up to the > poet to decide what he/she thinks is the best way to present work. > > > > Best, Peter > > > > wmfr.blogspot.com > > > > > > On Jan 18, 2008 10:16 AM, Halvard Johnson < halvard at earthlink.net > wrote: > > > > > > > > That's nonsense, unless, of course, you're averse to > > > online publication. There are any number of ways > > > to publish collections online at no cost beyond that > > > of being online. One could do it at blogspot if one > > > cared to. > > > > > > > > > Hal > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Theory, like mist on eyeglasses, > > > obscures vision." > > > --Charlie Chan > > > > > > > > > > > > Halvard Johnson > > > ================ > > > halvard at earthlink.net > > > http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html > > > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > > > > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.comhttp://www.hamiltonstone.org > > > http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Jan 18, 2008, at 10:07 AM, AlMaginnes at aol.com wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There's a lot to be said against contests, but the fact is that for many > poets it's pretty much the only sot, long as it is. With presses > increasingly going to contest route and those that don't stocked to the > gills, sometimes you have to hold your nose and go ahead (I was looking for > a mom in a wet T-shirt contest metaphor, but I don't think I'm well enough > to go there). > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape in the new year. > > > _______________________________________________ > > > New-Poetry mailing list > > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > New-Poetry mailing list > > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > From millb Fri Jan 18 13:08:16 2008 From: millb (millb at aol.com) Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 13:08:16 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Recommending Poetry Presses? In-Reply-To: <8CA281375E1A36E-900-657@MBLK-M31.sysops.aol.com> References: <3DBC2A3C-3479-4FC3-BAD5-3AC985397FA1@earthlink.net> <66B541D8-F010-4FD9-B5C1-CA1B1941CFD3@earthlink.net> <8CA281375E1A36E-900-657@MBLK-M31.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <8CA28143B7B06B4-900-6CF@MBLK-M31.sysops.aol.com> Oops By "non-traditional" I MEANT self-published or published online. Blogs and web pages seem toi be GREAT for promotion and for building a reader base, but, at least for now, traditional publishing modes seem to be those that "count" in regards to reviews, awards, etc. . . Anyone else have a differing opinion? -----Original Message----- From: millb at aol.com To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 12:02 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Recommending Poetry Presses? Hi Well, before you self-publish or premier your first MSS online, I'd consider a few items. 1) Most "first book" poetry prizes exclude writers who have self-published (so if you THINK you might ever enter a first book competition, maybe hold off?self-publishing for now) 2) As far as I know these non-traditional modes of publication do not count towards tenure or as credits when applying for fellowships or awards 3) I've never seen a non-traditional poetry book reviewed in a magazine or journal (which is not to say that they haven't been review--but I cannot recall ever having seen such a poetry "book" reviewed) 4) I've never seen a non-traditional poetry book win a major or even a minor literary award Perhaps we're in a transition stage, but, for now, I think that the above items are valid. Cheers, Mill -----Original Message----- From: Peter Joseph Gloviczki Bcc: millb at aol.com Sent: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 11:48 am Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Recommending Poetry Presses? A fair point, Hal, but there is another question worth pondering when it comes to online poetry zines -- could a poet/teacher get tenure through just online publications? I'm not sure. This is only one measure of success, certainly, but it's not an insignificant one. I also think that the amount of time and money and energy that it takes produce and distribute a print publication, lends itself to a perception that print journals have somewhat higher standing, in general. That said, I love online zines and read them regularly... What do others think? Peter On Jan 18, 2008 11:23 AM, Halvard Johnson wrote: Ah, I've got opposable thumbs too, but there's no book as warm as a laptop in one's lap. Hal, also not averse to other's spending of their money "Always treat language like a dangerous toy." --Anselm Hollo Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html http://entropyandme.blogspot.com? http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html On Jan 18, 2008, at 11:15 AM, Peter Joseph Gloviczki wrote: Morning, everyone! I think that there are, rightly or wrongly, preconceived notions about print publications as more reputable than online publications. I tend to prefer print publications, mostly because I like knowing that someone made the decision to spend money printing out what I sent them. I also like the ability to hold a printed book in my hand. But, in terms of audience, you can't beat the possibility for millions of viewers/readers of your work online. So, in the end, I think it's up to the poet to decide what he/she thinks is the best way to present work. Best, Peter wmfr.blogspot.com On Jan 18, 2008 10:16 AM, Halvard Johnson < halvard at earthlink.net > wrote: That's nonsense, unless, of course, you're averse to? online publication. There are any number of ways to publish collections online at no cost beyond that of being online. One could do it at blogspot if one cared to. Hal "Theory, like mist on eyeglasses, ?obscures vision." --Charlie Chan Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html http://entropyandme.blogspot.com ? http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html On Jan 18, 2008, at 10:07 AM, AlMaginnes at aol.com wrote: There's a lot to be said against contests, but the fact is that for many poets it's pretty much the only sot, long as it is. With presses increasingly going to contest route and those that don't stocked to the gills, sometimes you have to hold your nose and go ahead (I was looking for a mom in a wet T-shirt contest metaphor, but I don't think I'm well enough to go there). Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape in the new year. _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail! _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry ________________________________________________________________________ More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://webmail.aol.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From skip Fri Jan 18 13:40:41 2008 From: skip (Skip Fox) Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 12:40:41 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Recommending Poetry Presses? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <002001c85a01$a6b5d260$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> I had tenure and all the promotions I could use prior to on-line journals, but I publish probably over 2/3rds of my work in them now. My university is smart (or nice) enough to credit these works as publications and I know, as a member of job-search committees, that we (and I) look upon them as publications significant enough to lead to hiring, tenure, and promotion. (Some of our professors not in creative writing are also published in on-line journals.) Yet, a highly respected print journal would tend to trump a equally respected on-line journal. This does not mean that someone could not fair well at my university (a seconded-tier state university in Louisiana, so take it for what it's worth) by having a vita filled with on-line publications. (Personally, I prefer journal items virtual-thus accessible to all-and books actual-so that the warmth of the text is all in the words, i.e., to be held.) -----Original Message----- From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Peter Joseph Gloviczki Sent: Friday, January 18, 2008 11:48 AM To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &,Views Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Recommending Poetry Presses? A fair point, Hal, but there is another question worth pondering when it comes to online poetry zines -- could a poet/teacher get tenure through just online publications? I'm not sure. This is only one measure of success, certainly, but it's not an insignificant one. I also think that the amount of time and money and energy that it takes produce and distribute a print publication, lends itself to a perception that print journals have somewhat higher standing, in general. That said, I love online zines and read them regularly... What do others think? Peter On Jan 18, 2008 11:23 AM, Halvard Johnson > wrote: Ah, I've got opposable thumbs too, but there's no book as warm as a laptop in one's lap. Hal, also not averse to other's spending of their money "Always treat language like a dangerous toy." --Anselm Hollo Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html On Jan 18, 2008, at 11:15 AM, Peter Joseph Gloviczki wrote: Morning, everyone! I think that there are, rightly or wrongly, preconceived notions about print publications as more reputable than online publications. I tend to prefer print publications, mostly because I like knowing that someone made the decision to spend money printing out what I sent them. I also like the ability to hold a printed book in my hand. But, in terms of audience, you can't beat the possibility for millions of viewers/readers of your work online. So, in the end, I think it's up to the poet to decide what he/she thinks is the best way to present work. Best, Peter wmfr.blogspot.com On Jan 18, 2008 10:16 AM, Halvard Johnson < halvard at earthlink.net > wrote: That's nonsense, unless, of course, you're averse to online publication. There are any number of ways to publish collections online at no cost beyond that of being online. One could do it at blogspot if one cared to. Hal "Theory, like mist on eyeglasses, obscures vision." --Charlie Chan Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html On Jan 18, 2008, at 10:07 AM, AlMaginnes at aol.com wrote: There's a lot to be said against contests, but the fact is that for many poets it's pretty much the only sot, long as it is. With presses increasingly going to contest route and those that don't stocked to the gills, sometimes you have to hold your nose and go ahead (I was looking for a mom in a wet T-shirt contest metaphor, but I don't think I'm well enough to go there). _____ Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape in the new year. _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard Fri Jan 18 14:03:29 2008 From: halvard (Halvard Johnson) Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 13:03:29 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Recommending Poetry Presses? In-Reply-To: <002001c85a01$a6b5d260$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> References: <002001c85a01$a6b5d260$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> Message-ID: <52168A5C-F419-4F51-B5B9-00C8E0D159BF@earthlink.net> What's this "tenure" thing you guys are all referring to? Anything to do with the "no benefits" stamped on my contracts all those years when I was still getting contracts? Hal "A sudden silence in the middle of a conversation suddenly brings us back to essentials: it reveals how dearly we must pay for the invention of speech." --E. M. Cioran Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html On Jan 18, 2008, at 12:40 PM, Skip Fox wrote: > I had tenure and all the promotions I could use prior to on-line > journals, but I publish probably over 2/3rds of my work in them now. > My university is smart (or nice) enough to credit these works as > publications and I know, as a member of job-search committees, that > we (and I) look upon them as publications significant enough to lead > to hiring, tenure, and promotion. (Some of our professors not in > creative writing are also published in on-line journals.) > > Yet, a highly respected print journal would tend to trump a equally > respected on-line journal. This does not mean that someone could not > fair well at my university (a seconded-tier state university in > Louisiana, so take it for what it?s worth) by having a vita filled > with on-line publications. > > (Personally, I prefer journal items virtual?thus accessible to all? > and books actual?so that the warmth of the text is all in the words, > i.e., to be held.) > > -----Original Message----- > From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu > ] On Behalf Of Peter Joseph Gloviczki > Sent: Friday, January 18, 2008 11:48 AM > To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &,Views > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Recommending Poetry Presses? > > A fair point, Hal, but there is another question worth pondering > when it comes to online poetry zines -- could a poet/teacher get > tenure through just online publications? I'm not sure. This is only > one measure of success, certainly, but it's not an insignificant one. > > I also think that the amount of time and money and energy that it > takes produce and distribute a print publication, lends itself to a > perception that print journals have somewhat higher standing, in > general. > > That said, I love online zines and read them regularly... > > What do others think? > > Peter > On Jan 18, 2008 11:23 AM, Halvard Johnson > wrote: > Ah, I've got opposable thumbs too, but there's no book > as warm as a laptop in one's lap. > > Hal, also not averse to other's spending of their money > > "Always treat language like a dangerous toy." > > --Anselm Hollo > > Halvard Johnson > ================ > halvard at earthlink.net > http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > http://www.hamiltonstone.org > http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html > > > > On Jan 18, 2008, at 11:15 AM, Peter Joseph Gloviczki wrote: > > > Morning, everyone! > > I think that there are, rightly or wrongly, preconceived notions > about print publications as more reputable than online publications. > I tend to prefer print publications, mostly because I like knowing > that someone made the decision to spend money printing out what I > sent them. I also like the ability to hold a printed book in my hand. > > But, in terms of audience, you can't beat the possibility for > millions of viewers/readers of your work online. So, in the end, I > think it's up to the poet to decide what he/she thinks is the best > way to present work. > > Best, Peter > > wmfr.blogspot.com > On Jan 18, 2008 10:16 AM, Halvard Johnson < halvard at earthlink.net > > wrote: > That's nonsense, unless, of course, you're averse to > online publication. There are any number of ways > to publish collections online at no cost beyond that > of being online. One could do it at blogspot if one > cared to. > > Hal > > "Theory, like mist on eyeglasses, > obscures vision." > > --Charlie Chan > > Halvard Johnson > ================ > halvard at earthlink.net > http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > http://www.hamiltonstone.org > http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html > > > > > On Jan 18, 2008, at 10:07 AM, AlMaginnes at aol.com wrote: > >> There's a lot to be said against contests, but the fact is that for >> many poets it's pretty much the only sot, long as it is. With >> presses increasingly going to contest route and those that don't >> stocked to the gills, sometimes you have to hold your nose and go >> ahead (I was looking for a mom in a wet T-shirt contest metaphor, >> but I don't think I'm well enough to go there). >> >> >> Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape in the new year. >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames Fri Jan 18 14:08:21 2008 From: jforjames (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 14:08:21 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Recommending Poetry Presses? In-Reply-To: References: <3DBC2A3C-3479-4FC3-BAD5-3AC985397FA1@earthlink.net> <66B541D8-F010-4FD9-B5C1-CA1B1941CFD3@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <8CA281CA0B3AB89-1328-3235@mblk-d31.sysops.aol.com> I've said this before, but I think there should be more cooperative publishing going on. There are many cooperative art galleries that show good work.?The gallery has a selection? committee, made?up?of?a few members,?and they?select new member artists based on the submitted?slide portfolios and resumes. The better cooperatives attract better artists who have not found regular or satisfactory gallery representation. The selected new member? pays dues?to the gallery/organization (generally a?non-profit, hence deductible) and is, in turn, contracted for 1 solo show every 2-3 years, and allowed to be?part of group showings on a more frequent basis. Similarly if a band of?poets formed a cooperative?press and paid dues into it,?they could be given a guaranty of book publication?after a certain duration. It might not cover all the bills of the press, but it would be a stable revenue source for the venture and probably cover at least the production costs. It would be a version of 'subsidy publishing' but it would?have the virtue of 'bona fide selection process' (quality control), something you don't get with self-publishing and?vanity publishing. The comraderie of the press members might pay dividends as well in terms of organizing readings, helping with aspects of distribution and publicity. The flying circus of thousands of manuscripts moving around in the mails to these contests, and sometimes?the fix being in (Foetry), and each ms. with a $20-30 check attached, seems like a very inefficient and silly?publishing model. Some of you probably saw George Bailey in It's A Wonderful Life this past Christmas season telling the good folks of Bedford Falls the story of the building & loan (a cooperative bank), during the Crash. The whole credit union industry in this country arose because commercial banks were loath to lend to mill workers and others without assets beyond their weekly paychecks. Finnegan ________________________________________________________________________ More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://webmail.aol.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman Fri Jan 18 14:23:06 2008 From: bobgrumman (Bob Grumman) Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 14:23:06 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Recommending Poetry Presses? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4790FC9A.6060107@nut-n-but.net> AlMaginnes at aol.com wrote: > There's a lot to be said against contests, but the fact is that for > many poets it's pretty much the only sot, long as it is. With presses > increasingly going to contest route and those that don't stocked to > the gills, sometimes you have to hold your nose and go ahead (I was > looking for a mom in a wet T-shirt contest metaphor, but I don't think > I'm well enough to go there). I wish someone would do the research necessary and write a book analyzing how poets make it in the big world. My impression (based extremely on guesswork, for the most part) is this--assuming you do have some talent and don't grow up in lucky circumstances like having a father who is a bigtime poet: (1) You go to a bigtime University, and get the patronage of its bigtime poet or critic (2) You go to a bigtime University and make friends with other would-be poets like you, some of them with connections to bigtime publications (this is especially effective if done in conjunction with (1)) (3) You find others who do your kind of poetry and make friends with them, and group together, something greatly facilitated now by the Internet. This I know about because it was my way. So far it hasn't gotten me anywhere in the Bigworld, but it still could. (4) You enter contests. I don't know of anyone who has gotten anywhere by doing this, but who knows. (5) You compose superior poetry and send it to established publishers of poetry. I think someone did this 87 or 88 years ago and it worked. It hasn't since. --Bob G. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From skip Fri Jan 18 14:32:26 2008 From: skip (Skip Fox) Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 13:32:26 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Recommending Poetry Presses? In-Reply-To: <52168A5C-F419-4F51-B5B9-00C8E0D159BF@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <000001c85a08$df128430$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> I wanted to also bring up the mention of e-books. Many good presses are now "publishing" electronic books of poetry that people can download for free. Although this might seem like a way to find yourself in a blind alley with no attention, I have seen other poets' bookshelves with many printed out e-books. I do this occasionally myself. Publishing electronically allows a person interested in a poet to google him or her and read or print out copies of his or her works. I tend to do this more and more and in the process often print out an e-book of the poet so I can read in hard copy. Stapled and shelved, they afford the opportunity to immediately and easily jump into a sizable portion of a poet's work. (I remember what it used to be like as a poor man trying to get a little known poet's work in the middle of nowhere. Today is lovely and lively by comparison.) And if you publish, say, a thirty-page block of poems as an e-book, I don't think that precludes you from publishing that piece as a segment of a larger work, especially if that book has over twice as much poetry (either new or published elsewhere). That's just a sense of things; I've not seen it written. Another issue concerns p.o.d. books which I believe has been discussed in the past (and which I find delightful both in theory and practice-that is, by good presses). Indeed, much under this thread has been discussed, but with the publishing world changing so fast recently, and our experiences in publishing quickly broadening, I find it great that someone new brought up these issues so we can update (and deepen?) our thinking. (I love the idea of a cooperative press by the way.) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From skip Fri Jan 18 14:44:43 2008 From: skip (Skip Fox) Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 13:44:43 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Recommending Poetry Presses? In-Reply-To: <4790FC9A.6060107@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <000f01c85a0a$9867a040$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> What about a book on how to make it in the small (big) world. Chapters on how to lower expectations so that your goal is to have a situation where you can spend hours every week writing. A chapter on how to follow your own nose (and how not to follow the chapter). A chapter on how to ignore the fashions and trust the way of your own work. And maybe a final chapter on the depth of satisfaction one has in following his or her poetry rather than trying to write for approval (and add to a culture already choking on landfills of period style or other popular brands of poetry). I love you post, Bob, but think the issue might be usefully reconsidered as above. (Actually some people have made their names by winning prizes, but I can't remember any of them.) -----Original Message----- From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Bob Grumman Sent: Friday, January 18, 2008 1:23 PM To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Recommending Poetry Presses? AlMaginnes at aol.com wrote: There's a lot to be said against contests, but the fact is that for many poets it's pretty much the only sot, long as it is. With presses increasingly going to contest route and those that don't stocked to the gills, sometimes you have to hold your nose and go ahead (I was looking for a mom in a wet T-shirt contest metaphor, but I don't think I'm well enough to go there). I wish someone would do the research necessary and write a book analyzing how poets make it in the big world. My impression (based extremely on guesswork, for the most part) is this--assuming you do have some talent and don't grow up in lucky circumstances like having a father who is a bigtime poet: (1) You go to a bigtime University, and get the patronage of its bigtime poet or critic (2) You go to a bigtime University and make friends with other would-be poets like you, some of them with connections to bigtime publications (this is especially effective if done in conjunction with (1)) (3) You find others who do your kind of poetry and make friends with them, and group together, something greatly facilitated now by the Internet. This I know about because it was my way. So far it hasn't gotten me anywhere in the Bigworld, but it still could. (4) You enter contests. I don't know of anyone who has gotten anywhere by doing this, but who knows. (5) You compose superior poetry and send it to established publishers of poetry. I think someone did this 87 or 88 years ago and it worked. It hasn't since. --Bob G. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From millb Fri Jan 18 14:52:25 2008 From: millb (millb at aol.com) Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 14:52:25 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Recommending Poetry Presses? In-Reply-To: <000f01c85a0a$9867a040$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> Message-ID: <8CA2822C87D0B4B-4BC-7E0@WEBMAIL-DC18.sysops.aol.com> Can I be cynical here??? (1) You go to a bigtime University, and get the patronage of its bigtime poet or critic (2) You go to a bigtime University and make friends with other would-be poets like you, some of them with connections to bigtime publications (this is especially? effective if done in conjunction with (1)) (3) You find others who do your kind of poetry and make friends with them, and group together, something greatly facilitated now by the Internet.? This I know about because it was my way.? So far it hasn't gotten me anywhere in the Bigworld, but it still could.? (4) You enter contests.? I don't know of anyone who has gotten anywhere by doing this, but who knows. (5) You compose superior poetry and send it to established publishers of poetry.? I think someone did this 87 or 88 years ago and it worked.? It hasn't since. 6) You sleep with famous poet/writer/teacher (I've heard about this too many times for it not to be true, must have first happened about 2,000 years ago) -----Original Message----- From: Skip Fox Bcc: millb at aol.com Sent: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 11:44 am Subject: RE: [New-Poetry] Recommending Poetry Presses? What about a book on how to make it in the small (big) world. Chapters on how to lower expectations so that your goal is to have a situation where you can spend hours every week writing. A chapter on how to follow your own nose (and how not to follow the chapter). A chapter on how to ignore the fashions and trust the way of your own work. And maybe a final chapter on the depth of satisfaction one has in following his or her poetry rather than trying to write for approval (and add to a culture already choking on landfills of period style or other popular brands of poetry). ? I love you post, Bob, but think the issue might be usefully reconsidered as above. ? (Actually some people have made their names by winning prizes, but I can?t remember any of them.) ? ? -----Original Message----- From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Bob Grumman Sent: Friday, January 18, 2008 1:23 PM To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Recommending Poetry Presses? ? AlMaginnes at aol.com wrote: There's a lot to be said against contests, but the fact is that for many poets it's pretty much the only sot, long as it is. With presses increasingly going to contest route and those that don't stocked to the gills, sometimes you have to hold your nose and go ahead (I was looking for a mom in a wet T-shirt contest metaphor, but I don't think I'm well enough to go there). I wish someone would do the research necessary and write a book analyzing how poets make it in the big world.? My impression (based extremely on guesswork, for the most part) is this--assuming you do have some talent and don't grow up in lucky circumstances like having a father who is a bigtime poet: (1) You go to a bigtime University, and get the patronage of its bigtime poet or critic (2) You go to a bigtime University and make friends with other would-be poets like you, some of them with connections to bigtime publications (this is especially? effective if done in conjunction with (1)) (3) You find others who do your kind of poetry and make friends with them, and group together, something greatly facilitated now by the Internet.? This I know about because it was my way.? So far it hasn't gotten me anywhere in the Bigworld, but it still could.? (4) You enter contests.? I don't know of anyone who has gotten anywhere by doing this, but who knows. (5) You compose superior poetry and send it to established publishers of poetry.? I think someone did this 87 or 88 years ago and it worked.? It hasn't since. --Bob G. _______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry ________________________________________________________________________ More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://webmail.aol.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman Fri Jan 18 15:35:01 2008 From: bobgrumman (Bob Grumman) Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 15:35:01 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Recommending Poetry Presses? In-Reply-To: <648208b60801181006u478a9619ib6310d8277bbfa50@mail.gmail.com> References: <3DBC2A3C-3479-4FC3-BAD5-3AC985397FA1@earthlink.net><66B541D8-F010-4FD9-B5C1-CA1B1941CFD3@earthlink.net> <648208b60801181006u478a9619ib6310d8277bbfa50@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <47910D75.5000201@nut-n-but.net> James Cervantes wrote: > Well, that's the main reason behind the prefernce for a print book: > being vetted by a committee and/or judge and the effort and expense of > production, all with an eye toward a step up the academic and MFA > ladder. The big plus to online publication is that nothing is ever > out of print. > > - Jim > I would add that it's not quite right to belittle Internet publishers for not putting money into what they publish. It costs money to have a computer, and a website. More important, it takes time to post poems, even--I imagine--for those better at it than I. There are many other factors, like what percentage of a publisher's finances is going into a publication. Because I've always be under the poverty line, a sizable portion of mine went into what I did as a micro-publisher, and now as a blogger who tries to publish worthy poets by showing and commenting on their work. Which leads to something else: the time some publishers who go online are freed to comment on poetry they publish, which I think is a valuable to poets as being published, and the space they have to do it in. One last primary factor ignored by those belittling the Internet is that most of those running websites have principals. They no more want to publish crap than a print publisher. In fact, sine they can't make money from the poetry they publisher, they may even have higher standards. Ergo, some online publications are more prestigious than many, most, or even all print publications. All that said, I admit that I still much prefer having something of mine on paper than on a screen. But you can get to paper from the screen. --Bob G. From chris.lott Fri Jan 18 15:40:59 2008 From: chris.lott (Chris Lott) Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 11:40:59 -0900 Subject: [New-Poetry] Recommending Poetry Presses? In-Reply-To: <47910D75.5000201@nut-n-but.net> References: <3DBC2A3C-3479-4FC3-BAD5-3AC985397FA1@earthlink.net> <66B541D8-F010-4FD9-B5C1-CA1B1941CFD3@earthlink.net> <648208b60801181006u478a9619ib6310d8277bbfa50@mail.gmail.com> <47910D75.5000201@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <9b1b9dab0801181240q3871bf6ft51105dd5723ed9a9@mail.gmail.com> I don't get the review thing-- perhaps in "major" publications you won't see reviews of self-published (which really covers quite a range of publications from blog posts to print-on-demand and everything in between) books-- but they review such a miniscule percentage of non-mainstream (and only slightly more of mainstream, right?) work that it's almost immaterial. Smaller reviews review self-published and small/micro-press published stuff all the time. c -- Chris Lott From bobgrumman Fri Jan 18 15:41:57 2008 From: bobgrumman (Bob Grumman) Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 15:41:57 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Recommending Poetry Presses? In-Reply-To: <8CA28143B7B06B4-900-6CF@MBLK-M31.sysops.aol.com> References: <3DBC2A3C-3479-4FC3-BAD5-3AC985397FA1@earthlink.net> <66B541D8-F010-4FD9-B5C1-CA1B1941CFD3@earthlink.net> <8CA281375E1A36E-900-657@MBLK-M31.sysops.aol.com> <8CA28143B7B06B4-900-6CF@MBLK-M31.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <47910F15.6050609@nut-n-but.net> millb at aol.com wrote: > Oops > > By "non-traditional" I MEANT self-published or published online. You'd be right enough if you'd meant "other than Iowa plaintext lyric or neoformalist or mildly langpoetic-- Wilshburian." > > Blogs and web pages seem toi be GREAT for promotion and for building a > reader base, but, at least for now, traditional publishing modes seem > to be those that "count" in regards to reviews, awards, etc. . . > > Anyone else have a differing opinion? Not I. But it could be changing. Even in a bad way as a generation comes into being that considers nothing but online publication to count and deems books effete. --Bob G. From bobgrumman Fri Jan 18 15:50:18 2008 From: bobgrumman (Bob Grumman) Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 15:50:18 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Recommending Poetry Presses? In-Reply-To: <000001c85a08$df128430$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> References: <000001c85a08$df128430$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> Message-ID: <4791110A.3080500@nut-n-but.net> I think a lot of micro-presses are, in effect, cooperative: the members of an informal group of poet/publishers like and publish each other's work. That's mainly how the language poets made it. Yikes, New-Poetry itself is such a group, albeit very informally, and hit&miss because of the many different kinds of poets here. Anny, expecially, has provided a venue for many of us. I've posted work by some here at my blog, and publicized others' blogs and work in my Small Press Review columns. The Mole and Jeff and quite a few others do similarly. --Bob G. From anny.ballardini Fri Jan 18 15:53:26 2008 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 21:53:26 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Recommending Poetry Presses? References: <000001c85a08$df128430$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> Message-ID: <002e01c85a14$2cbe1680$39a83252@ANNY> I think this (I do not like the expression but I cannot find anything better in this moment) nails it: re.: Skip Fox: (I remember what it used to be like as a poor man trying to get a little known poet's work in the middle of nowhere. Today is lovely and lively by comparison.) to which I could add that I feel much richer in terms of poetry, of quantity and quality of poetry and of ideas and it feels "lovely and lively." From: Skip Fox Sent: Friday, January 18, 2008 8:32 PM I wanted to also bring up the mention of e-books. Many good presses are now "publishing" electronic books of poetry that people can download for free. Although this might seem like a way to find yourself in a blind alley with no attention, I have seen other poets' bookshelves with many printed out e-books. I do this occasionally myself. Publishing electronically allows a person interested in a poet to google him or her and read or print out copies of his or her works. I tend to do this more and more and in the process often print out an e-book of the poet so I can read in hard copy. Stapled and shelved, they afford the opportunity to immediately and easily jump into a sizable portion of a poet's work. (I remember what it used to be like as a poor man trying to get a little known poet's work in the middle of nowhere. Today is lovely and lively by comparison.) And if you publish, say, a thirty-page block of poems as an e-book, I don't think that precludes you from publishing that piece as a segment of a larger work, especially if that book has over twice as much poetry (either new or published elsewhere). That's just a sense of things; I've not seen it written. Another issue concerns p.o.d. books which I believe has been discussed in the past (and which I find delightful both in theory and practice-that is, by good presses). Indeed, much under this thread has been discussed, but with the publishing world changing so fast recently, and our experiences in publishing quickly broadening, I find it great that someone new brought up these issues so we can update (and deepen?) our thinking. (I love the idea of a cooperative press by the way.) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From skip Fri Jan 18 16:10:04 2008 From: skip (Skip Fox) Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 15:10:04 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Recommending Poetry Presses? In-Reply-To: <4791110A.3080500@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <000001c85a16$84f0e7e0$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> On p.o.d. books: Not all p.o.d. books are self published. Many (BlazeVox) have standards and their catalogues contain books from many exciting and good writers AND they are well made and intelligently designed, from cover to lay-out. On quality of on-line journal editing: In continuation of Bob's points, we might also consider the time and effort of on-line magazine editors. I would dare say some of them (like Anny) would view themselves as deeply involved in the occupation of editing and presenting work, spending as much time on it, if not more, than the average editor of a print journal (many of whom have separate genre editors, grad students to go through the slush pile, or whatever). As with anything else, the person creates the quality of the endeavor. And for many there is only one reason to do it: love (not career or notoriety because on-line journals don't generally have the cultural prestige that many print journals enjoy). From AlMaginnes Fri Jan 18 16:11:15 2008 From: AlMaginnes (AlMaginnes at aol.com) Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 16:11:15 EST Subject: [New-Poetry] Recommending Poetry Presses? Message-ID: Kevin Walzer and his wife Lori Jareo run Word Tech, which publishes POD under several imprints. They do nice work, but because they are committed to their POD philosophy, it makes it hard for bookstores to do business with them--no returns, etc. That might be another link in the chain--people who sell books are going to have to become more flexible. **************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape. http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cervantes.james Fri Jan 18 16:19:23 2008 From: cervantes.james (James Cervantes) Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 14:19:23 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Recommending Poetry Presses? In-Reply-To: <9b1b9dab0801181240q3871bf6ft51105dd5723ed9a9@mail.gmail.com> References: <3DBC2A3C-3479-4FC3-BAD5-3AC985397FA1@earthlink.net> <66B541D8-F010-4FD9-B5C1-CA1B1941CFD3@earthlink.net> <648208b60801181006u478a9619ib6310d8277bbfa50@mail.gmail.com> <47910D75.5000201@nut-n-but.net> <9b1b9dab0801181240q3871bf6ft51105dd5723ed9a9@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <648208b60801181319w490f310et139a76d0eefbdca7@mail.gmail.com> Aaarrggh! Please please please do not equate p.o.d. with self publication. Yes, a lot of writers self-publish using the p.o.d. process, but a lot of small presses use the p.o.d. process to publish their authors. Self publication and print-on-demand are NOT the same thing. That being yelled, I too don't get the review thing. Garbage printed and warehoused in huge quantities by traditional publishers gets reviewed in large circulation newspapers and magazines. And, as Chris points out, only a small percentage of non-mainstream work gets reviewed. blah blah blah It's all self-referential. - jim On 1/18/08, Chris Lott wrote: > I don't get the review thing-- perhaps in "major" publications you > won't see reviews of self-published (which really covers quite a range > of publications from blog posts to print-on-demand and everything in > between) books-- but they review such a miniscule percentage of > non-mainstream (and only slightly more of mainstream, right?) work > that it's almost immaterial. Smaller reviews review self-published and > small/micro-press published stuff all the time. > > c > -- > Chris Lott > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > From jforjames Fri Jan 18 19:05:36 2008 From: jforjames (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 19:05:36 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Chess poem for Bobby Fischer Message-ID: <8CA284626B6EC40-688-1A50@webmail-me15.sysops.aol.com> One of my childhood heroes died yesterday. So here's a poem by another hero of mine in tribute... Me and Capablanca The sultry first night of July, he on the bed reading one of Chandler's lesser novels. What he should be doing is in the other room. Today he began carrying wood up from the valley, already starting on winter. He closes the book and goes naked into the pitch pines and the last half-hour of the dark. Rain makes a sound on the birches and a butternut tree. There is not enough time left to use it for dissatisfaction. Often it is hard to know when the middle game is over and the end game beginning, the pure part that is made more of craft than it is of magic. --Jack Gilbert, The Great Fires ________________________________________________________________________ More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://webmail.aol.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Opus40-01 Fri Jan 18 19:32:36 2008 From: Opus40-01 (TheOldMole) Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 19:32:36 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Chess poem for Bobby Fischer In-Reply-To: <8CA284626B6EC40-688-1A50@webmail-me15.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CA284626B6EC40-688-1A50@webmail-me15.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <47914524.3000102@opus40.org> Bobby Fischer died? That's sad. A sad, great man. My 7-year-old grandson has just fallen in love with chess. And a good poem. jforjames at aol.com wrote: > One of my childhood heroes died yesterday. So here's a poem by another > hero of mine in tribute... > > Me and Capablanca > > The sultry first night of July, he on the bed > reading one of Chandler's lesser novels. > What he should be doing is in the other room. > Today he began carrying wood up from the valley, > already starting on winter. He closes the book > and goes naked into the pitch pines and the last > half-hour of the dark. Rain makes a sound > on the birches and a butternut tree. There is not > enough time left to use it for dissatisfaction. > Often it is hard to know when the middle game > is over and the end game beginning, the pure part > that is made more of craft than it is of magic. > > --Jack Gilbert, /The Great Fires/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail > ! > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ The moral is this: in American verse, The better you are, the pay is worse. --Corey Ford From bobgrumman Fri Jan 18 21:31:01 2008 From: bobgrumman (Bob Grumman) Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 21:31:01 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Recommending Poetry Presses? In-Reply-To: <8CA2822C87D0B4B-4BC-7E0@WEBMAIL-DC18.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CA2822C87D0B4B-4BC-7E0@WEBMAIL-DC18.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <479160E5.1020507@nut-n-but.net> millb at aol.com wrote: > Can I be cynical here??? > > (1) You go to a bigtime University, and get the patronage of its > bigtime poet or critic > > (2) You go to a bigtime University and make friends with other > would-be poets like you, some of them with connections to bigtime > publications (this is especially effective if done in conjunction > with (1)) > > (3) You find others who do your kind of poetry and make friends > with them, and group together, something greatly facilitated now > by the Internet. This I know about because it was my way. So far > it hasn't gotten me anywhere in the Bigworld, but it still could. > > (4) You enter contests. I don't know of anyone who has gotten > anywhere by doing this, but who knows. > > (5) You compose superior poetry and send it to established > publishers of poetry. I think someone did this 87 or 88 years ago > and it worked. It hasn't since. > > 6) You sleep with famous poet/writer/teacher (I've heard about > this too many times for it not to be true, must have first > happened about 2,000 years ago) > > Oh, I'm sure, too--but it's covered in (1). --Bob G. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames Fri Jan 18 21:35:20 2008 From: jforjames (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 21:35:20 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Recommending Poetry Presses? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8CA285B11A0A2AF-688-1FC4@webmail-me15.sysops.aol.com> Inventory is the number one cost for retail. I'm sure it won't be too long before POD machines are in each Barnes & Noble and Borders store. I saw somewhere that POD machines have been installed on a trial basis in some libraries. If you like the book enough you can buy it on the spot rather than borrowing it. Where is BOD, burn on demand, for CD section of the store? Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: AlMaginnes at aol.com To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 4:11 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Recommending Poetry Presses? Kevin Walzer and his wife Lori Jareo run Word Tech, which publishes POD under several imprints. They do nice work, but because they are committed to their POD philosophy, it makes it hard for bookstores to do business with them--no returns, etc.?That might be another link in the chain--people who sell books are going to have to become more flexible. Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape in the new year. _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry ________________________________________________________________________ More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://webmail.aol.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chris.lott Fri Jan 18 21:37:43 2008 From: chris.lott (Chris Lott) Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 17:37:43 -0900 Subject: [New-Poetry] Recommending Poetry Presses? In-Reply-To: <648208b60801181319w490f310et139a76d0eefbdca7@mail.gmail.com> References: <3DBC2A3C-3479-4FC3-BAD5-3AC985397FA1@earthlink.net> <66B541D8-F010-4FD9-B5C1-CA1B1941CFD3@earthlink.net> <648208b60801181006u478a9619ib6310d8277bbfa50@mail.gmail.com> <47910D75.5000201@nut-n-but.net> <9b1b9dab0801181240q3871bf6ft51105dd5723ed9a9@mail.gmail.com> <648208b60801181319w490f310et139a76d0eefbdca7@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <9b1b9dab0801181837j7726e8fds40423f13762387aa@mail.gmail.com> On Jan 18, 2008 12:19 PM, James Cervantes wrote: > Aaarrggh! Please please please do not equate p.o.d. with self > publication. Yes, a lot of writers self-publish using the p.o.d. > process, but a lot of small presses use the p.o.d. process to publish > their authors. Self publication and print-on-demand are NOT the same > thing. I never equated them. I said that self-publishing ran the gamut from blogs to POD... that doesn't mean that all POD is self-publishing. I don't expect poets to take logic classes, but really... Similarly, in response to Skip, many POD operations that are sourced by self-publishing also have standards and good design from cover to cover. c From jfq Fri Jan 18 21:47:17 2008 From: jfq (jfq at myuw.net) Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 18:47:17 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] Recommending Poetry Presses? In-Reply-To: <41A94A75-92EC-4EDF-ACA0-0C5D6A3CB8BA@earthlink.net> Message-ID: That's the route I'm taking with my first book, out some time this year I hope. Why bother with trying to get the attention of a small press when for the same amount of money you can start a small press? On Thu, 17 Jan 2008, Halvard Johnson wrote: > I'd say save the money you'd spend entering contests > and publish it yourself. > > Hal > > "Some dangerous poem is always stalking you." > --Heberto Padilla > > Halvard Johnson > ================ > halvard at earthlink.net > http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > http://www.hamiltonstone.org > http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html > > > On Jan 17, 2008, at 1:50 PM, Jeff Newberry wrote: > >> Most of the poets I met when I was in grad school at UGA all had their first >> books come out via the contest route: Kirsten Kashock, Sabrina Orah Mark, >> Ed Pavlic, Danielle Pafunda (I think . . .) >> >> Anywho, from what almost every poet/editor tells me, the contest route is >> the way to go for a first book. >> >> Best, >> Jeff Newberry >> >> On Jan 17, 2008 2:36 PM, wrote: >> A heads up--unless it's a contest winner that they're contractually >> obligated to print, Copper Canyon doesn't look at unsolicited first books. >> At least that's what they told me way back in hte day. >> >> Onerous as it is, the contest route is not a bad way to get your feet wet. >> And, of course, if you know someone at a press that helps. >> >> >> >> Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape in the new year. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> >> >> >> -- >> "Memory believes before knowing remembers. Believes longer than recollects, >> longer than knowing even wonders." >> ?William Faulkner, Light in August >> >> >> http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > From jfq Fri Jan 18 22:05:35 2008 From: jfq (jfq at myuw.net) Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 19:05:35 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] Recommending Poetry Presses? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: the question of standing is a boondoggle. standing among whom? the people who think it's a valid thing to do to be an academic teaching at a university and claiming that this is being a professional poet. which is nonsense. a day job is a day job, and most of them pay better than assistant professorships. further, it's goofy that so many people end up teaching through an education in poetry. the only legitimate reason to select that profession over the many others available is a genuine desire to teach. and if that's what you want, there are lots of junior colleges out there that will hire an MA into their English departments who don't have a huge list of publications, or any at all for that matter. On Fri, 18 Jan 2008, Peter Joseph Gloviczki wrote: > A fair point, Hal, but there is another question worth pondering when it > comes to online poetry zines -- could a poet/teacher get tenure through just > online publications? I'm not sure. This is only one measure of success, > certainly, but it's not an insignificant one. > > I also think that the amount of time and money and energy that it takes > produce and distribute a print publication, lends itself to a perception > that print journals have somewhat higher standing, in general. > > That said, I love online zines and read them regularly... > > What do others think? > > Peter > > On Jan 18, 2008 11:23 AM, Halvard Johnson wrote: > >> Ah, I've got opposable thumbs too, but there's no bookas warm as a laptop >> in one's lap. >> >> Hal, also not averse to other's spending of their money >> >> "Always treat language like a dangerous toy." >> --Anselm Hollo >> >> Halvard Johnson >> ================ >> halvard at earthlink.net >> http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html >> http://entropyandme.blogspot.com >> http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com >> http://www.hamiltonstone.org >> http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html >> >> >> On Jan 18, 2008, at 11:15 AM, Peter Joseph Gloviczki wrote: >> >> Morning, everyone! >> >> I think that there are, rightly or wrongly, preconceived notions about >> print publications as more reputable than online publications. I tend to >> prefer print publications, mostly because I like knowing that someone made >> the decision to spend money printing out what I sent them. I also like the >> ability to hold a printed book in my hand. >> >> But, in terms of audience, you can't beat the possibility for millions of >> viewers/readers of your work online. So, in the end, I think it's up to the >> poet to decide what he/she thinks is the best way to present work. >> >> Best, Peter >> >> wmfr.blogspot.com >> >> On Jan 18, 2008 10:16 AM, Halvard Johnson wrote: >> >>> That's nonsense, unless, of course, you're averse to online >>> publication. There are any number of ways >>> to publish collections online at no cost beyond that >>> of being online. One could do it at blogspot if one >>> cared to. >>> >>> Hal >>> >>> "Theory, like mist on eyeglasses, >>> obscures vision." >>> --Charlie Chan >>> >>> Halvard Johnson >>> ================ >>> halvard at earthlink.net >>> http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html >>> http://entropyandme.blogspot.com >>> http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com >>> http://www.hamiltonstone.org >>> http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html >>> >>> >>> >>> On Jan 18, 2008, at 10:07 AM, AlMaginnes at aol.com wrote: >>> >>> There's a lot to be said against contests, but the fact is that for >>> many poets it's pretty much the only sot, long as it is. With presses >>> increasingly going to contest route and those that don't stocked to the >>> gills, sometimes you have to hold your nose and go ahead (I was looking for >>> a mom in a wet T-shirt contest metaphor, but I don't think I'm well enough >>> to go there). >>> >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------ >>> Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shapein the new year. >>> _______________________________________________ >>> New-Poetry mailing list >>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> New-Poetry mailing list >>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > From jfq Fri Jan 18 22:06:39 2008 From: jfq (jfq at myuw.net) Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 19:06:39 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] Recommending Poetry Presses? In-Reply-To: <8CA281375E1A36E-900-657@MBLK-M31.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: two words: Tender Buttons On Fri, 18 Jan 2008 millb at aol.com wrote: > Hi > > Well, before you self-publish or premier your first MSS online, I'd consider a few items. > > 1) Most "first book" poetry prizes exclude writers who have self-published (so if you THINK you might ever enter a first book competition, maybe hold off?self-publishing for now) > 2) As far as I know these non-traditional modes of publication do not count towards tenure or as credits when applying for fellowships or awards > 3) I've never seen a non-traditional poetry book reviewed in a magazine or journal (which is not to say that they haven't been review--but I cannot recall ever having seen such a poetry "book" reviewed) > 4) I've never seen a non-traditional poetry book win a major or even a minor literary award > > Perhaps we're in a transition stage, but, for now, I think that the above items are valid. > > Cheers, > > Mill > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Peter Joseph Gloviczki > Bcc: millb at aol.com > Sent: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 11:48 am > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Recommending Poetry Presses? > > > A fair point, Hal, but there is another question worth pondering when it comes to online poetry zines -- could a poet/teacher get tenure through just online publications? I'm not sure. This is only one measure of success, certainly, but it's not an insignificant one. > > I also think that the amount of time and money and energy that it takes produce and distribute a print publication, lends itself to a perception that print journals have somewhat higher standing, in general. > > That said, I love online zines and read them regularly... > > What do others think? > > Peter > > > On Jan 18, 2008 11:23 AM, Halvard Johnson wrote: > > > Ah, I've got opposable thumbs too, but there's no book > as warm as a laptop in one's lap. > > > > > Hal, also not averse to other's spending of their money > > > > > > "Always treat language like a dangerous toy." > > --Anselm Hollo > > > > > > Halvard Johnson > > ================ > > halvard at earthlink.net > > http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html > > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com? > > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > http://www.hamiltonstone.org > > > http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html > > > > > > > > > > > > On Jan 18, 2008, at 11:15 AM, Peter Joseph Gloviczki wrote: > > > Morning, everyone! > > I think that there are, rightly or wrongly, preconceived notions about print publications as more reputable than online publications. I tend to prefer print publications, mostly because I like knowing that someone made the decision to spend money printing out what I sent them. I also like the ability to hold a printed book in my hand. > > But, in terms of audience, you can't beat the possibility for millions of viewers/readers of your work online. So, in the end, I think it's up to the poet to decide what he/she thinks is the best way to present work. > > Best, Peter > > wmfr.blogspot.com > > > On Jan 18, 2008 10:16 AM, Halvard Johnson < halvard at earthlink.net > wrote: > > > That's nonsense, unless, of course, you're averse to? > online publication. There are any number of ways > > to publish collections online at no cost beyond that > > of being online. One could do it at blogspot if one > > cared to. > > > > > Hal > > > > > > "Theory, like mist on eyeglasses, > > ?obscures vision." > > --Charlie Chan > > > > > > Halvard Johnson > > ================ > > halvard at earthlink.net > > http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html > > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com ? > > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > http://www.hamiltonstone.org > http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html > > > > > > > > > > > > On Jan 18, 2008, at 10:07 AM, AlMaginnes at aol.com wrote: > > > > > > > There's a lot to be said against contests, but the fact is that for many poets it's pretty much the only sot, long as it is. With presses increasingly going to contest route and those that don't stocked to the gills, sometimes you have to hold your nose and go ahead (I was looking for a mom in a wet T-shirt contest metaphor, but I don't think I'm well enough to go there). > > > > > Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape in the new year. > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > ________________________________________________________________________ > More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://webmail.aol.com > From jfq Fri Jan 18 22:09:01 2008 From: jfq (jfq at myuw.net) Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 19:09:01 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] Recommending Poetry Presses? In-Reply-To: <8CA28143B7B06B4-900-6CF@MBLK-M31.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: yep. the people who decide what counts don't count. On Fri, 18 Jan 2008 millb at aol.com wrote: > Oops > > By "non-traditional" I MEANT self-published or published online. > > Blogs and web pages seem toi be GREAT for promotion and for building a reader base, but, at least for now, traditional publishing modes seem to be those that "count" in regards to reviews, awards, etc. . . > > Anyone else have a differing opinion? > > > -----Original Message----- > From: millb at aol.com > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Sent: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 12:02 pm > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Recommending Poetry Presses? > > > Hi > > Well, before you self-publish or premier your first MSS online, I'd consider a few items. > > 1) Most "first book" poetry prizes exclude writers who have self-published (so if you THINK you might ever enter a first book competition, maybe hold off?self-publishing for now) > 2) As far as I know these non-traditional modes of publication do not count towards tenure or as credits when applying for fellowships or awards > 3) I've never seen a non-traditional poetry book reviewed in a magazine or journal (which is not to say that they haven't been review--but I cannot recall ever having seen such a poetry "book" reviewed) > 4) I've never seen a non-traditional poetry book win a major or even a minor literary award > > Perhaps we're in a transition stage, but, for now, I think that the above items are valid. > > Cheers, > > Mill > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Peter Joseph Gloviczki > Bcc: millb at aol.com > Sent: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 11:48 am > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Recommending Poetry Presses? > > > A fair point, Hal, but there is another question worth pondering when it comes to online poetry zines -- could a poet/teacher get tenure through just online publications? I'm not sure. This is only one measure of success, certainly, but it's not an insignificant one. > > I also think that the amount of time and money and energy that it takes produce and distribute a print publication, lends itself to a perception that print journals have somewhat higher standing, in general. > > That said, I love online zines and read them regularly... > > What do others think? > > Peter > > > On Jan 18, 2008 11:23 AM, Halvard Johnson wrote: > > > Ah, I've got opposable thumbs too, but there's no book > as warm as a laptop in one's lap. > > > > > Hal, also not averse to other's spending of their money > > > > > > "Always treat language like a dangerous toy." > > --Anselm Hollo > > > > > > Halvard Johnson > > ================ > > halvard at earthlink.net > > http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html > > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com? > > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > http://www.hamiltonstone.org > > > http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html > > > > > > > > > > > > On Jan 18, 2008, at 11:15 AM, Peter Joseph Gloviczki wrote: > > > Morning, everyone! > > I think that there are, rightly or wrongly, preconceived notions about print publications as more reputable than online publications. I tend to prefer print publications, mostly because I like knowing that someone made the decision to spend money printing out what I sent them. I also like the ability to hold a printed book in my hand. > > But, in terms of audience, you can't beat the possibility for millions of viewers/readers of your work online. So, in the end, I think it's up to the poet to decide what he/she thinks is the best way to present work. > > Best, Peter > > wmfr.blogspot.com > > > On Jan 18, 2008 10:16 AM, Halvard Johnson < halvard at earthlink.net > wrote: > > > That's nonsense, unless, of course, you're averse to? > online publication. There are any number of ways > > to publish collections online at no cost beyond that > > of being online. One could do it at blogspot if one > > cared to. > > > > > Hal > > > > > > "Theory, like mist on eyeglasses, > > ?obscures vision." > > --Charlie Chan > > > > > > Halvard Johnson > > ================ > > halvard at earthlink.net > > http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html > > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com ? > > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > http://www.hamiltonstone.org > http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html > > > > > > > > > > > > On Jan 18, 2008, at 10:07 AM, AlMaginnes at aol.com wrote: > > > > > > > There's a lot to be said against contests, but the fact is that for many poets it's pretty much the only sot, long as it is. With presses increasingly going to contest route and those that don't stocked to the gills, sometimes you have to hold your nose and go ahead (I was looking for a mom in a wet T-shirt contest metaphor, but I don't think I'm well enough to go there). > > > > > Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape in the new year. > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail! > > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > ________________________________________________________________________ > More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://webmail.aol.com > From jfq Fri Jan 18 22:19:53 2008 From: jfq (jfq at myuw.net) Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 19:19:53 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] Recommending Poetry Presses? In-Reply-To: <000f01c85a0a$9867a040$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> Message-ID: On Fri, 18 Jan 2008, Skip Fox wrote: > (Actually some people have made their names by winning prizes, but I can't > remember any of them.) BH Fairchild is probably the best example. If I recall correctly, his first manuscript was published after he won a contest. Also, Anthony McCann's Father of Noise is a contest winner that's very good. I can see the attraction of being legitimized by a publisher, but what if no one ever legitimizes you? Cory Doctorow has made very interesting progress as a writer giving his novels away for free and self publishing, and in the end you're as legitimate as your work is. Sure most self published books suck, but so do a sizable majority of major press poetry books. The legitimization of the markt, that is, people buying your book, is ultimately what matters if you really want to sell your work. And it's been proven a couple of times now that it's possible to do that without the backing of an established poetry press. From millb Fri Jan 18 22:21:39 2008 From: millb (millb at aol.com) Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 22:21:39 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Recommending Poetry Presses? In-Reply-To: <479160E5.1020507@nut-n-but.net> References: <8CA2822C87D0B4B-4BC-7E0@WEBMAIL-DC18.sysops.aol.com> <479160E5.1020507@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <8CA28618A446634-778-1CF7@mblk-d36.sysops.aol.com> I dunno, Bob, 1) patronage is not the same thing as sleeping with said-famous poet or teacher or visiting writer.? :) -----Original Message----- From: Bob Grumman Bcc: millb at aol.com Sent: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 6:31 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Recommending Poetry Presses? millb at aol.com wrote: Can I be cynical here??? (1) You go to a bigtime University, and get the patronage of its bigtime poet or critic (2) You go to a bigtime University and make friends with other would-be poets like you, some of them with connections to bigtime publications (this is especially? effective if done in conjunction with (1)) (3) You find others who do your kind of poetry and make friends with them, and group together, something greatly facilitated now by the Internet.? This I know about because it was my way.? So far it hasn't gotten me anywhere in the Bigworld, but it still could.? (4) You enter contests.? I don't know of anyone who has gotten anywhere by doing this, but who knows. (5) You compose superior poetry and send it to established publishers of poetry.? I think someone did this 87 or 88 years ago and it worked.? It hasn't since. 6) You sleep with famous poet/writer/teacher (I've heard about this too many times for it not to be true, must have first happened about 2,000 years ago) Oh, I'm sure, too--but it's covered in (1). --Bob G. _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry ________________________________________________________________________ More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://webmail.aol.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jfq Fri Jan 18 22:32:23 2008 From: jfq (jfq at myuw.net) Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 19:32:23 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] Recommending Poetry Presses? In-Reply-To: <8CA28618A446634-778-1CF7@mblk-d36.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: I think what Bob meant was that sleeping with someone to get a book published is a form of patronage. On Fri, 18 Jan 2008 millb at aol.com wrote: > I dunno, Bob, 1) patronage is not the same thing as sleeping with said-famous poet or teacher or visiting writer.? > > :) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Bob Grumman > Bcc: millb at aol.com > Sent: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 6:31 pm > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Recommending Poetry Presses? > > > > > millb at aol.com wrote: > Can I be cynical here??? > > (1) You go to a bigtime University, and get the patronage of its bigtime poet or critic > > (2) You go to a bigtime University and make friends with other would-be poets like you, some of them with connections to bigtime publications (this is especially? effective if done in conjunction with (1)) > > (3) You find others who do your kind of poetry and make friends with them, and group together, something greatly facilitated now by the Internet.? This I know about because it was my way.? So far it hasn't gotten me anywhere in the Bigworld, but it still could.? > > (4) You enter contests.? I don't know of anyone who has gotten anywhere by doing this, but who knows. > > (5) You compose superior poetry and send it to established publishers of poetry.? I think someone did this 87 or 88 years ago and it worked.? It hasn't since. > > 6) You sleep with famous poet/writer/teacher (I've heard about this too many times for it not to be true, must have first happened about 2,000 years ago) > > > Oh, I'm sure, too--but it's covered in (1). > > > --Bob G. > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > ________________________________________________________________________ > More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://webmail.aol.com > From Opus40-01 Fri Jan 18 22:53:21 2008 From: Opus40-01 (TheOldMole) Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 22:53:21 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Recommending Poetry Presses? In-Reply-To: <8CA28618A446634-778-1CF7@mblk-d36.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CA2822C87D0B4B-4BC-7E0@WEBMAIL-DC18.sysops.aol.com> <479160E5.1020507@nut-n-but.net> <8CA28618A446634-778-1CF7@mblk-d36.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <47917431.3000802@opus40.org> Maybe not as much fun, either. millb at aol.com wrote: > I dunno, Bob, 1) patronage is not the same thing as sleeping with > said-famous poet or teacher or visiting writer. > > :) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Bob Grumman > Bcc: millb at aol.com > Sent: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 6:31 pm > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Recommending Poetry Presses? > > > > millb at aol.com wrote: >> Can I be cynical here??? >> >> (1) You go to a bigtime University, and get the patronage of its >> bigtime poet or critic >> >> (2) You go to a bigtime University and make friends with other >> would-be poets like you, some of them with connections to bigtime >> publications (this is especially effective if done in >> conjunction with (1)) >> >> (3) You find others who do your kind of poetry and make friends >> with them, and group together, something greatly facilitated now >> by the Internet. This I know about because it was my way. So >> far it hasn't gotten me anywhere in the Bigworld, but it still >> could. >> >> (4) You enter contests. I don't know of anyone who has gotten >> anywhere by doing this, but who knows. >> >> (5) You compose superior poetry and send it to established >> publishers of poetry. I think someone did this 87 or 88 years >> ago and it worked. It hasn't since. >> >> 6) You sleep with famous poet/writer/teacher (I've heard about >> this too many times for it not to be true, must have first >> happened about 2,000 years ago) >> >> Oh, I'm sure, too--but it's covered in (1). > > --Bob G. > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail > ! > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ The moral is this: in American verse, The better you are, the pay is worse. --Corey Ford From editor Sat Jan 19 00:18:48 2008 From: editor (David Baratier) Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 21:18:48 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Recommending Poetry Presses? In-Reply-To: <200801190156.m0J1uP2f019403@wiz.cath.vt.edu> Message-ID: <369817.6854.qm@web45606.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> A few things to mention on this thread-- At Iowa they have agents that come in and sign up the poets. I have heard from an unreliable source that they have started this at Houston also; that they do this for fiction is accurately confirmed tho. I can think of many whose "literary reputation" was established by contests. Anyone who wins the Whitman Award or the James Laughlin Award has 5,000 books given away to Academy of American poets members. Like Tony Hoagland. The National Poetry Series contest places at least one book a year on Penguin. That has helped out various friends I can think of, probably Terrance Hayes is the best recent example. The traditional route that Bob mentions of publishing poems in journals then sending to publishers still works. We have had a few titles sell over 1,000 copies which makes them best sellers in the poetry world. For us our Simon Perchik collected, the Will Alexander book, Tony Gloeggler (a first book), a few others, all were chosen from appearing in our journal first. Outside of our first book contest, we primarily publish first books, with some collected or selected (but some of the selected poems have been first books also). For an author, I find the disadvantage of a publisher who uses POD is a lack of interest in marketing the books. They do not have a garage full of them they wish to empty out. For Pavement Saw, it has been a good year; I can park my car this winter. I've had one or more reviews appear in the last year for six titles that were published from 1998 to 2003. I do not see POD publishers as having a vested interest in pushing their mid- or back-title lists. Larger publishers remainder their stock for .50 cents to $1 a copy to Half-Price books and other chains to inflict their titles on an uninterested public. For them, poetry only has value if it sells within nine months, otherwise it is immediately excised from print. As for publishing yourself, I can see it for chapbooks, the expense is not there. For books, the book of poems "exists," but only if bought, if they are never printed then the audience is theoretical also. In nearly all instances self publishing a physical full length collection seems an ego inflating measure of being able to quip "I have a book" rather than a serious attempt to connect with an entirely unknown readership that your work would be important to. I cannot think of any self published books of poems composed of words (not PDF's, or e-books or so on), that have made substantial impact in the last 10 years. Some vispo collections (maybe those are smaller potential fields to begin with) but not poetry. Maybe I have missed that boat, are there any that come to mind for you'all? Be well David Baratier, Editor Pavement Saw Press 321 Empire Street Montpelier OH 43543 http://pavementsaw.org Subscribe to our e-mail listserv at http://pavementsaw.org/list/?p=subscribe&id=1 --------------------------------- Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From asurkont Sat Jan 19 02:33:02 2008 From: asurkont (Amanda Surkont) Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2008 02:33:02 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Recommending Poetry Presses? & Online Pubs - Endowments etc. In-Reply-To: <002001c85a01$a6b5d260$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> References: <002001c85a01$a6b5d260$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> Message-ID: The National Endowment will accept up to fifty percent online publications to establish eligibility for grants in poetry as long as the publication has editorial policy that is stated in the publication and there is a selection process that is competitive... . There is a list of the type of work that cannot be used in establishing eligibility and that does include self published works, works that are published when there is affliation with a particular institution, vanity press publication--and my understanding is that a cooperative effort where a poet assumed any of the publication costs, would fit into that category. There are other exclusions as I recall, but these came to mind for the purpose of the discussion. best, manda From asurkont Sat Jan 19 02:41:47 2008 From: asurkont (Amanda Surkont) Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2008 02:41:47 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Recommending Poetry Presses? In-Reply-To: <8CA281CA0B3AB89-1328-3235@mblk-d31.sysops.aol.com> References: <3DBC2A3C-3479-4FC3-BAD5-3AC985397FA1@earthlink.net> <66B541D8-F010-4FD9-B5C1-CA1B1941CFD3@earthlink.net> <8CA281CA0B3AB89-1328-3235@mblk-d31.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: Read May and Faye's Building and Loan. Great book. best, manda On Fri, 18 Jan 2008 14:08:21 -0500, wrote: Some of you probably saw George Bailey in It's A Wonderful Life this past Christmas season telling the good folks of Bedford Falls the story of the building & loan (a cooperative bank), during the Crash. The whole credit union industry in this country arose because commercial banks were loath to lend to mill workers and others without assets beyond their weekly paychecks. Finnegan > > ________________________________________________________________________ > More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - > http://webmail.aol.com From bobgrumman Sat Jan 19 06:27:00 2008 From: bobgrumman (Bob Grumman) Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2008 06:27:00 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Recommending Poetry Presses? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4791DE84.1040804@nut-n-but.net> > > yep. the people who decide what counts don't count. > > Unfortunately, they do count: for getting one's work into circulation and for getting money to one. This latter is significant, unless you have rich parents who dote on you. Without it, you have to work at a job you probably won't like that takes time away from your poetry. --Bob G. From bobgrumman Sat Jan 19 06:31:00 2008 From: bobgrumman (Bob Grumman) Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2008 06:31:00 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Recommending Poetry Presses? In-Reply-To: <8CA28618A446634-778-1CF7@mblk-d36.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CA2822C87D0B4B-4BC-7E0@WEBMAIL-DC18.sysops.aol.com><479160E5.1020507@nut-n-but.net> <8CA28618A446634-778-1CF7@mblk-d36.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <4791DF74.8050904@nut-n-but.net> millb at aol.com wrote: > I dunno, Bob, 1) patronage is not the same thing as sleeping with > said-famous poet or teacher or visiting writer. > > :) Well, because I'm an inveterate arguer, I gotta say that I said "/getting/ patronage." Sleeping with a famous poet is one way of getting patronage. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman Sat Jan 19 06:55:26 2008 From: bobgrumman (Bob Grumman) Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2008 06:55:26 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Recommending Poetry Presses? In-Reply-To: <369817.6854.qm@web45606.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: <369817.6854.qm@web45606.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4791E52E.3070502@nut-n-but.net> A few quick comments back to Dave: I'm sure there are a few contests that have helped poets, but those they've helped were almost always already well on there way or already there. As for POD-users, sure, most of them are bad at marketing, I one of them. But not because of lack of interest but because marketing is difficult and we don't have the time or connections necessary to do it right, especially those of us not in a big city. Dave does an excellent job of this, and maybe his enterprise's contests help some poets, but his press is a rare exception--do to all the work he puts into it. Pudding House does good work, too. --Bob G. David Baratier wrote: > A few things to mention on this thread-- > > At Iowa they have agents that come in and sign up the poets. > I have heard from an unreliable source that they have started this at > Houston also; that they do this for fiction is accurately confirmed tho. > > I can think of many whose "literary reputation" was established by > contests. Anyone who wins the Whitman Award or the James Laughlin > Award has 5,000 books given away to Academy of American poets members. > Like Tony Hoagland. The National Poetry Series contest places at least > one book a year on Penguin. That has helped out various friends I can > think of, probably Terrance Hayes is the best recent example. > > The traditional route that Bob mentions of publishing poems in > journals then sending to publishers still works. We have had a few > titles sell over 1,000 copies which makes them best sellers in the > poetry world. For us our Simon Perchik collected, the Will > Alexander book, Tony Gloeggler (a first book), a few others, all were > chosen from appearing in our journal first. > > Outside of our first book contest, we primarily publish first books, > with some collected or selected (but some of the selected poems have > been first books also). > > For an author, I find the disadvantage of a publisher who uses POD is > a lack of interest in marketing the books. They do not have a garage > full of them they wish to empty out. For Pavement Saw, it has been a > good year; I can park my car this winter. I've had one or more reviews > appear in the last year for six titles that were published from 1998 > to 2003. I do not see POD publishers as having a vested interest in > pushing their mid- or back-title lists. > > Larger publishers remainder their stock for .50 cents to $1 a copy to > Half-Price books and other chains to inflict their titles on an > uninterested public. For them, poetry only has value if it sells > within nine months, otherwise it is immediately excised from print. > > As for publishing yourself, I can see it for chapbooks, the expense is > not there. For books, the book of poems "exists," but only if bought, > if they are never printed then the audience is theoretical also. In > nearly all instances self publishing a physical full length > collection seems an ego inflating measure of being able to quip "I > have a book" rather than a serious attempt to connect with an entirely > unknown readership that your work would be important to. > > I cannot think of any self published books of poems composed of words > (not PDF's, or e-books or so on), that have made substantial impact in > the last 10 years. Some vispo collections (maybe those are smaller > potential fields to begin with) but not poetry. Maybe I have missed > that boat, are there any that come to mind for you'all? > > > > > > > > > Be well > > David Baratier, Editor > > Pavement Saw Press > 321 Empire Street > Montpelier OH 43543 > http://pavementsaw.org > > Subscribe to our e-mail listserv at > http://pavementsaw.org/list/?p=subscribe&id=1 > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > From jfq Sat Jan 19 07:42:57 2008 From: jfq (jfq at myuw.net) Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2008 04:42:57 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Recommending Poetry Presses? In-Reply-To: <369817.6854.qm@web45606.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 18 Jan 2008, David Baratier wrote: > As for publishing yourself, I can see it for chapbooks, the expense is not there. For books, the book of poems "exists," but only if bought, if they are never printed then the audience is theoretical also. In nearly all instances self publishing a physical full length collection seems an ego inflating measure of being able to quip "I have a book" rather than a serious attempt to connect with an entirely unknown readership that your work would be important to. > Interesting point, David. But one could just as easily point out that getting published by a press the size of yours is also an ego inflating measure of the same order and the "attempt to connect" is in fact being fobbed off on a third party (the publisher.) It's what one does with the book and about the book, and the quality of the work in the book that makes it worthwhile or not. Not who publishes it. From jfq Sat Jan 19 08:11:56 2008 From: jfq (jfq at myuw.net) Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2008 05:11:56 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] Recommending Poetry Presses? In-Reply-To: <4791DE84.1040804@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: On Sat, 19 Jan 2008, Bob Grumman wrote: > > > >> >> yep. the people who decide what counts don't count. >> >> > Unfortunately, they do count: for getting one's work into circulation and for > getting money to one. This latter is significant, unless you have rich parents > who dote on you. Without it, you have to work at a job you probably won't like > that takes time away from your poetry. I reject that argument. What's so bad about having a day job? I like my job fine and it has nothing to do with poetry, or really anything I "enjoy" and I don't ever feel like I don't have time to write and submit poetry. And i still find time to write and play music, make recordings of things, take the occasional evening class, participate on a couple of listservs, watch movies, read books, play video games, blog and have a social life. Devoting the entirety of your life to a single pursuit is a goofy way to live, in my opinion. You're going to have to have a day job no matter what, unless you're one of those creepy types who call themselves "Freelance writers" and write for Magazines. So no, the people who decide what counts don't count, because all they're doing is stroking their own egos and setting up hierarchies of human importance based on the lamest possible criteria: popularity. I didn't care for it in highschool, and now that I'm an adult I'm free to walk away from that sort of sycophancy, narcissism, and shallowness. If everyone else did the same rather than desparately trying to make money from their work so that they can be a "Real" whatever it is they do, then I think the world would be a much more pleasant place. And then recognize that if you choose to work in a medium that doesn't have big financial rewards for hardly anybody, reconcile yourself to the fact that the rewards ain't coming. Nobody deserves to get paid for writing good poetry. I personally have no interest in it what so ever. Having freed myself from the dumb notion that one needs to avoid developing employable skills in interesting fields of work in order to perfect ones art, I have born out the experiment I played out in my own life and discovered that 1.) who you work with is more important than what you work on 2.) there are jobs with good people that pay a living wage to be had and 3.) it's amazingly easy to leave it all in the office when you walk out the door at five o'clock. which is to say i have no sympathy for anyone who complains they have to work for a living. I'd like to have a trust fund and Maya Angelou's book contract, but that's not the cards I got played. So I have to work for a living. I will have to work for a living until I have enough money squirreled away to take care of myself until I die. And in the meantime I have health care with company paid dental, and I don't hate what I do. How did I manage this amazing feet? I have realistic expectations about the differences between the work you do to get paid and the work you do for love. So as a result I much prefer this way of living. It's more comfortable, I'm happier, and I have a wider range of things to write about than I did when I was broke bohemian post punk guitar player working crappy jobs for minimum wage. I can still be a bohemian post punk guitar player with a job I don't hate that pays me enough to live on comfortably, and I can write poetry at the same time. The three different things have nothing at all to do with one another. Or to put it a different way, thank god i don't have to write for a living, because I'd get completely bored of it before a month was out. From halvard Sat Jan 19 10:57:46 2008 From: halvard (Halvard Johnson) Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2008 09:57:46 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Recommending Poetry Presses? In-Reply-To: <369817.6854.qm@web45606.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: <369817.6854.qm@web45606.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <629FF1FC-2BE9-40FF-9D78-AEFF57CD0A88@earthlink.net> On Jan 18, 2008, at 11:18 PM, David Baratier wrote: > A few things to mention on this thread-- > > At Iowa they have agents that come in and sign up the poets. And (it's a little-known fact) the ones not signed up are rendered into swill and used to slop Iowa pigs. I don't know what they'd do with them in Houston. Hal "If you want to make God laugh, tell him what you're doing tomorrow." --Mychal Judge, Chaplain, NYFD Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini Sat Jan 19 10:59:22 2008 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2008 16:59:22 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Recommending Poetry Presses? References: Message-ID: <000c01c85ab4$41ffdec0$78eb114f@ANNY> I and I can understand both positions. I used to advocate for the one that a life (job) is complementary to poetry. In Bob's case his visual art requires painting as well which builds up to three simultaneous lives. As a matter of fact I have stopped painting, the same dirt colors require does not get along with teaching and going to meetings and dealing with documents and so forth. There is also Tad who draws (paints?), how can you deal with it all? Would you rather opt for a life dedicated to art only? ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views" Sent: Saturday, January 19, 2008 2:11 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Recommending Poetry Presses? > > > > On Sat, 19 Jan 2008, Bob Grumman wrote: > >> >> >> >>> >>> yep. the people who decide what counts don't count. >>> >>> >> Unfortunately, they do count: for getting one's work into circulation and >> for getting money to one. This latter is significant, unless you have >> rich parents who dote on you. Without it, you have to work at a job you >> probably won't like that takes time away from your poetry. > > I reject that argument. What's so bad about having a day job? I like my > job fine and it has nothing to do with poetry, or really anything I > "enjoy" and I don't ever feel like I don't have time to write and submit > poetry. And i still find time to write and play music, make recordings of > things, take the occasional evening class, participate on a couple of > listservs, watch movies, read books, play video games, blog and have a > social life. Devoting the entirety of your life to a single pursuit is a > goofy way to live, in my opinion. You're going to have to have a day job > no matter what, unless you're one of those creepy types who call > themselves "Freelance writers" and write for Magazines. > > So no, the people who decide what counts don't count, because all they're > doing is stroking their own egos and setting up hierarchies of human > importance based on the lamest possible criteria: popularity. > > I didn't care for it in highschool, and now that I'm an adult I'm free to > walk away from that sort of sycophancy, narcissism, and shallowness. If > everyone else did the same rather than desparately trying to make money > from their work so that they can be a "Real" whatever it is they do, then > I think the world would be a much more pleasant place. And then recognize > that if you choose to work in a medium that doesn't have big financial > rewards for hardly anybody, reconcile yourself to the fact that the > rewards ain't coming. Nobody deserves to get paid for writing good poetry. > I personally have no interest in it what so ever. Having freed myself from > the dumb notion that one needs to avoid developing employable skills in > interesting fields of work in order to perfect ones art, I have born out > the experiment I played out in my own life and discovered that 1.) who you > work with is more important than what you work on 2.) there are jobs with > good people that pay a living wage to be had and 3.) it's amazingly easy > to leave it all in the office when you walk out the door at five o'clock. > > which is to say i have no sympathy for anyone who complains they have to > work for a living. I'd like to have a trust fund and Maya Angelou's book > contract, but that's not the cards I got played. So I have to work for a > living. I will have to work for a living until I have enough money > squirreled away to take care of myself until I die. And in the meantime I > have health care with company paid dental, and I don't hate what I do. How > did I manage this amazing feet? I have realistic expectations about the > differences between the work you do to get paid and the work you do for > love. > > So as a result I much prefer this way of living. It's more comfortable, > I'm happier, and I have a wider range of things to write about than I did > when I was broke bohemian post punk guitar player working crappy jobs for > minimum wage. I can still be a bohemian post punk guitar player with a job > I don't hate that pays me enough to live on comfortably, and I can write > poetry at the same time. The three different things have nothing at all to > do with one another. > > Or to put it a different way, thank god i don't have to write for a > living, because I'd get completely bored of it before a month was out. From AlMaginnes Sat Jan 19 11:04:17 2008 From: AlMaginnes (AlMaginnes at aol.com) Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2008 11:04:17 EST Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Recommending Poetry Presses? Message-ID: Agents for poets? **************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape. http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From millb Sat Jan 19 11:05:04 2008 From: millb (millb at aol.com) Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2008 11:05:04 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Recommending Poetry Presses? In-Reply-To: <4791DF74.8050904@nut-n-but.net> References: <8CA2822C87D0B4B-4BC-7E0@WEBMAIL-DC18.sysops.aol.com><479160E5.1020507@nut-n-but.net> <8CA28618A446634-778-1CF7@mblk-d36.sysops.aol.com> <4791DF74.8050904@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <8CA28CC3047DF91-C04-316E@MBLK-M27.sysops.aol.com> I see. . .thanks for the clarification! -----Original Message----- From: Bob Grumman Bcc: millb at aol.com Sent: Sat, 19 Jan 2008 3:31 am Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Recommending Poetry Presses? millb at aol.com wrote: I dunno, Bob, 1) patronage is not the same thing as sleeping with said-famous poet or teacher or visiting writer.? :) Well, because I'm an inveterate arguer, I gotta say that I said "getting patronage."? Sleeping with a famous poet is one way of getting patronage. --Bob _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry ________________________________________________________________________ More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://webmail.aol.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames Sat Jan 19 11:53:04 2008 From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2008 11:53:04 EST Subject: [New-Poetry] Scroggins' Zukofsky book reviewed Message-ID: _http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/20/books/review/Chiasson-t.html?_r=1&ref=books &oref=slogin_ (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/20/books/review/Chiasson-t.html?_r=1&ref=books&oref=slogin) Alpha Poet By DAN CHIASSON Published: January 20, 2008 Louis Zukofsky (1904-78) is the author of an enormous poem called simply ?A,? an 800-plus-page work written over the course of more than 50 years in a m?lange of styles and forms, from Poundian free verse to Italian canzoni. ?A? -21 ? the poem was composed of 24 parts, mirroring the hours of the day ? translates an entire play by Plautus. ?A?-24, the final section, is the score of a masque composed by Zukofsky?s wife, Celia. ?The most hermetic poem in English,? a ?long intent eccentric unread game,? was the critic Hugh Kenner?s judgment of ?A,? and Kenner liked it. **************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape. http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman Sat Jan 19 12:34:43 2008 From: bobgrumman (Bob Grumman) Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2008 12:34:43 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Recommending Poetry Presses? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <479234B3.7020807@nut-n-but.net> jfq at myuw.net wrote: > > > > On Sat, 19 Jan 2008, Bob Grumman wrote: > >> >> >> >>> >>> yep. the people who decide what counts don't count. >>> >>> >> Unfortunately, they do count: for getting one's work into circulation >> and for getting money to one. This latter is significant, unless you >> have rich parents who dote on you. Without it, you have to work at a >> job you probably won't like that takes time away from your poetry. > > I reject that argument. What's so bad about having a day job? I like > my job fine and it has nothing to do with poetry, or really anything I > "enjoy" and I don't ever feel like I don't have time to write and > submit poetry. Oh, because you've been lucky enough to find a job you like and that pays reasonably well, it's okay for other poets not to get grants and the like for their poetry. > And i still find time to write and play music, make recordings of > things, take the occasional evening class, participate on a couple of > listservs, watch movies, read books, play video games, blog and have a > social life. Devoting the entirety of your life to a single pursuit is > a goofy way to live, in my opinion. Who said anything about devoting one's life to a single pursuit, although to each his own? How about devoting one's life to things one enjoys and getting paid for what one produces instead of wasting half one's life at something one doesn't enjoy in order to do a few of the things one does enjoy. Not to mention even then not being able to afford the extras one could use to be a better poet such as, in my case (as a visual poet), a better computer printer, a larger house to store things, a secretary, tickets to various events I could interact with other poets at, actors and a stage for the performance of one's plays, a decent video camera, a place to record musical compositions, and so forth. And what if you are unlucky enough to be the sort who can't get into major projects unless you know you'll be uninterrupted until you finish them, or at least get them well under way? > You're going to have to have a day job no matter what, unless you're > one of those creepy types who call themselves "Freelance writers" and > write for Magazines. > Right. But I'm saying poetry should be your day job, if you're good at it, and as it is for some who are not good at it. > So no, the people who decide what counts don't count, because all > they're doing is stroking their own egos and setting up hierarchies of > human importance based on the lamest possible criteria: popularity. It's more complex than that. For instance, many of them base it on the criterion of political correctness. And being mediocre is much more important to all of them than being popular. Needless to say, I agree that the people deciding what counts don't count so far as the ultimate value of one's poetry is concerned, but they do count so far as the conditions of life for most poets is concerned. And, I contend, for their poetry. Here is a for instance supporting the latter: five or six years ago, the Atlantic Center for the Arts in New Smyrna Beach, Florida, for possibly the only time in its existence made an innovative artist (Richard Kostelanetz) an artist in residence (or the equivalent). They do this several times a year. the Artist chosen gets two or three weeks there and can invite ten or twelve other artists to join him. Back then these latter got free room and board and use of computers, recording rooms, etc. So, as one invited along by Richard, I got to spend two weeks with equipment I can't afford myself and--most important--with fellow artists doing work similar to mine. That's where I was introduced to photo shop, and my poetry took off as a result. The others there with me (most of them people I'd corresponded with before but hadn't previously met in person) and I formed a fairly potent little collective, since then getting our visual poems into "legitimate" galleries and performing as a group in various places (usually without me because I can't afford the transportation costs) and publishing together, most recently in a very fancy limited edition called Vispoeologee done by a book arts center in Minneapolis. In short, I consider it probably the most important socio-poetic event of my poetic life. Sure, maybe something like that might have come about without the help of some mediocrities "who count" and who mistook Kostelanetz for a fellow mediocrity, but it's the only time it's happened for me. Even then, I might not have been able to take advantage of it if it hadn't happened to take place in the summer when I was off from my day job (which I do rather enjoy, by the way, but consider an extreme hindrance). In conclusion, I just don't see how you can blithely claim that the gatekeepers don't count for poets, in general, just because having a day job works for you. I would add that I do think day jobs can be useful, and that I might have had a few here and there if I'd been paid what I think I'm worth as an artist. Even now, I think if I suddenly got rich, I would continue working a day or two as a K-12 substitute teacher, my present (highest paying ever) day job. --Bob G. From bobgrumman Sat Jan 19 12:39:48 2008 From: bobgrumman (Bob Grumman) Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2008 12:39:48 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Recommending Poetry Presses? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <479235E4.6000506@nut-n-but.net> AlMaginnes at aol.com wrote: > Agents for poets? Sure, Al. I'm one, in fact. Send me a thousand bucks to circulate your resume to /The New Yorker/ and elsewhere and I'll take you on (though only because you're a fabulous poet). --Bob G. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mandolin Sat Jan 19 12:47:46 2008 From: mandolin (Michael Snider) Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2008 12:47:46 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Recommending Poetry Presses? In-Reply-To: <479234B3.7020807@nut-n-but.net> References: <479234B3.7020807@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <7A388E5E-2A56-4FCA-936B-EE5F1329D940@mac.com> On Jan 19, 2008, at 12:34 PM, Bob Grumman wrote: > Right. But I'm saying poetry should be your day job, if you're good > at it, and as it is for some who are not good at it. Who kes a living writing poetry for a day job? Wendy Cope? (A. E. Stallings says so: http://www.poetryfoundation.org/harriet/2007/12/feeling_guilty_1.html) Richard Wilbur, if you count his translations of classical French theater. Ginsberg made a living being famous -- Stevie Smith was allowed to pretend to work, and, for a while, Teddy Roosevelt arranged the same for E A Robinson. Anyone have an idea what percantage of Frost's income came directly from poetry sales? Hayden Carruth? Robert Bly? Sharon Olds? From AlMaginnes Sat Jan 19 13:17:30 2008 From: AlMaginnes (AlMaginnes at aol.com) Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2008 13:17:30 EST Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Recommending Poetry Presses? Message-ID: No no no. You send ME a thousand bucks and I'll weigh your offer alongside all the other agents who are hounding me night and day for my poetic output. **************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape. http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Opus40-01 Sat Jan 19 14:04:53 2008 From: Opus40-01 (TheOldMole) Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2008 14:04:53 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Recommending Poetry Presses? In-Reply-To: <7A388E5E-2A56-4FCA-936B-EE5F1329D940@mac.com> References: <479234B3.7020807@nut-n-but.net> <7A388E5E-2A56-4FCA-936B-EE5F1329D940@mac.com> Message-ID: <479249D5.8030002@opus40.org> Most museums make most of their money, not from people coming in to see the art, but from museum shop sales. Poetry is a loss leader for a poet. We give it away, or sell it at bargain basement prices, in order to realize ancillary revenues. Michael Snider wrote: > > On Jan 19, 2008, at 12:34 PM, Bob Grumman wrote: > >> Right. But I'm saying poetry should be your day job, if you're good >> at it, and as it is for some who are not good at it. > > Who kes a living writing poetry for a day job? Wendy Cope? (A. E. > Stallings says so: > http://www.poetryfoundation.org/harriet/2007/12/feeling_guilty_1.html) Richard > Wilbur, if you count his translations of classical French theater. > Ginsberg made a living being famous -- Stevie Smith was allowed to > pretend to work, and, for a while, Teddy Roosevelt arranged the same > for E A Robinson. Anyone have an idea what percantage of Frost's > income came directly from poetry sales? Hayden Carruth? Robert Bly? > Sharon Olds? > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ The moral is this: in American verse, The better you are, the pay is worse. --Corey Ford From AlMaginnes Sat Jan 19 14:26:15 2008 From: AlMaginnes (AlMaginnes at aol.com) Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2008 14:26:15 EST Subject: [New-Poetry] Recommending Poetry Presses? Message-ID: If anyone want to pay me a large salary for not working as opposed to the so so salary I make now for actually working, please let me know as soon as possible. I have a daughter who will want to go to college on day. **************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape. http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Opus40-01 Sat Jan 19 14:58:45 2008 From: Opus40-01 (TheOldMole) Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2008 14:58:45 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Recommending Poetry Presses? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <47925675.7050901@opus40.org> You're hired. Wait till you see our benefits plan. AlMaginnes at aol.com wrote: > If anyone want to pay me a large salary for not working as opposed to > the so so salary I make now for actually working, please let me know > as soon as possible. I have a daughter who will want to go to college > on day. > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape > > in the new year. > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ The moral is this: in American verse, The better you are, the pay is worse. --Corey Ford From anny.ballardini Sat Jan 19 15:01:43 2008 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2008 21:01:43 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Recommending Poetry Presses? References: Message-ID: <001801c85ad6$1db4f9c0$78eb114f@ANNY> ditto it's Saturday night and I am dealing with the translation of a contract, I'd rather be a) in front of the sea b) in a hut in the mountains looking out of the window at the snow softly falling c) in New York d) in a pub in New Orleans for a jacket potato e) walking along La Seine f) on the footprints of Dostojevsky g) packing to go to any of the afore-mentioned ideas h) watching a movie From: AlMaginnes at aol.com Sent: Saturday, January 19, 2008 8:26 PM If anyone want to pay me a large salary for not working as opposed to the so so salary I make now for actually working, please let me know as soon as possible. I have a daughter who will want to go to college on day. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From blacksox Sat Jan 19 15:55:07 2008 From: blacksox (blacksox at att.net) Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2008 20:55:07 +0000 Subject: [New-Poetry] recommended poetry presses Message-ID: <011920082055.23437.479263AB0003149500005B8D22216128369B0A02D29B9B0EBF98019C050C0E040D@att.net> I was shocked to find out the story of romance novels. (same industry different genre) My neighbor recently came out with her twentieth release. Depending on the author, tens of thousands to hundreds of thousands are printed and distributed nationwide. After nine months they are pulled off the shelf, and sold to discount book outlets for fifty to ten cents apiece. If they can find any buyers at the outlet store level, they are sold to dollar store distributors for a penny or less. This is even true for the ?best? sellers. The real problem is warehouse space. In many cases its easier to get rid of the books for a loss than lose more by paying additional warehouse fees. POD for poetry is the future if not the present. Sooner or later a Pod book will hit big enough to change the industry into marketing these books in a more efficient manner -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman Sat Jan 19 15:56:10 2008 From: bobgrumman (Bob Grumman) Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2008 15:56:10 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Recommending Poetry Presses? In-Reply-To: <7A388E5E-2A56-4FCA-936B-EE5F1329D940@mac.com> References: <479234B3.7020807@nut-n-but.net> <7A388E5E-2A56-4FCA-936B-EE5F1329D940@mac.com> Message-ID: <479263EA.3060108@nut-n-but.net> Michael Snider wrote: > > On Jan 19, 2008, at 12:34 PM, Bob Grumman wrote: > >> Right. But I'm saying poetry should be your day job, if you're good >> at it, and as it is for some who are not good at it. > > Who makes a living writing poetry for a day job? Wendy Cope? (A. E. > Stallings says so: > http://www.poetryfoundation.org/harriet/2007/12/feeling_guilty_1.html) Richard > Wilbur, if you count his translations of classical French theater. > Ginsberg made a living being famous -- Stevie Smith was allowed to > pretend to work, and, for a while, Teddy Roosevelt arranged the same > for E A Robinson. Anyone have an idea what percantage of Frost's > income came directly from poetry sales? Hayden Carruth? Robert Bly? > Sharon Olds? > > Well, I meant making a living as a poet, which means writing poetry that sells and raking in money for readings, getting grants and prizes, running workshops, and so forth. Rita Dove. Not many others, I'm sure. Of course, my point is that if you're any good, you can't make it your day job. I'd add that some poets could make it their day job but enjoy having another more munificent related one, like teaching. Frost, could surely have lived off his earnings as a poet had he wanted to. Seems to me Cummings did. If not, I don't know what he did for a living. I wonder, too, if teaching poetry should count as a day job for poets. --Bob G. From millb Sat Jan 19 16:00:17 2008 From: millb (millb at aol.com) Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2008 16:00:17 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Recommending Poetry Presses? In-Reply-To: <479263EA.3060108@nut-n-but.net> References: <479234B3.7020807@nut-n-but.net> <7A388E5E-2A56-4FCA-936B-EE5F1329D940@mac.com> <479263EA.3060108@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <8CA28F56E1A5127-106C-37F9@MBLK-M12.sysops.aol.com> I think added to the list of poets without an academic day job should be Merwin, who has not made a living out of teaching. -----Original Message----- From: Bob Grumman Bcc: millb at aol.com Sent: Sat, 19 Jan 2008 2:56 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Recommending Poetry Presses? ? Michael Snider wrote:? >? > On Jan 19, 2008, at 12:34 PM, Bob Grumman wrote:? >? >> Right. But I'm saying poetry should be your day job, if you're good >> at it, and as it is for some who are not good at it.? >? > Who makes a living writing poetry for a day job? Wendy Cope? (A. E. > Stallings says so: > http://www.poetryfoundation.org/harriet/2007/12/feeling_guilty_1.html) Richard > Wilbur, if you count his translations of classical French theater. > Ginsberg made a living being famous -- Stevie Smith was allowed to > pretend to work, and, for a while, Teddy Roosevelt arranged the same > for E A Robinson. Anyone have an idea what percantage of Frost's > income came directly from poetry sales? Hayden Carruth? Robert Bly? > Sharon Olds?? >? > Well, I meant making a living as a poet, which means writing poetry that sells and raking in money for readings, getting grants and prizes, running workshops, and so forth. Rita Dove. Not many others, I'm sure. Of course, my point is that if you're any good, you can't make it your day job.? ? I'd add that some poets could make it their day job but enjoy having another more munificent related one, like teaching. Frost, could surely have lived off his earnings as a poet had he wanted to. Seems to me Cummings did. If not, I don't know what he did for a living.? ? I wonder, too, if teaching poetry should count as a day job for poets.? ? --Bob G.? ? _______________________________________________? New-Poetry mailing list? New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu? http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry? ________________________________________________________________________ More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://webmail.aol.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From editor Sat Jan 19 16:04:06 2008 From: editor (David Baratier) Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2008 13:04:06 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Recommending Poetry Presses? In-Reply-To: <4791E52E.3070502@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <492288.48217.qm@web45602.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Thanks for the good words on the press Bob! I disagree tho that those helped by contests were "well on there way already" as Hoagland was pretty much unknown, had one book out on a university press that had hardly been reviewed, he was one of at least 1000 university poetry titles published that year. Bob Hickok too, he was a tool and die maker up this way, no university connections, won a prize and became a professor. I take this as being beyond "help;" it is a whole different occupation and experience. all for now-- Bob Grumman wrote: A few quick comments back to Dave: I'm sure there are a few contests that have helped poets, but those they've helped were almost always already well on there way or already there. As for POD-users, sure, most of them are bad at marketing, I one of them. But not because of lack of interest but because marketing is difficult and we don't have the time or connections necessary to do it right, especially those of us not in a big city. Dave does an excellent job of this, and maybe his enterprise's contests help some poets, but his press is a rare exception--do to all the work he puts into it. Pudding House does good work, too. --Bob G. David Baratier wrote: > A few things to mention on this thread-- > > At Iowa they have agents that come in and sign up the poets. > I have heard from an unreliable source that they have started this at > Houston also; that they do this for fiction is accurately confirmed tho. > > I can think of many whose "literary reputation" was established by > contests. Anyone who wins the Whitman Award or the James Laughlin > Award has 5,000 books given away to Academy of American poets members. > Like Tony Hoagland. The National Poetry Series contest places at least > one book a year on Penguin. That has helped out various friends I can > think of, probably Terrance Hayes is the best recent example. > > The traditional route that Bob mentions of publishing poems in > journals then sending to publishers still works. We have had a few > titles sell over 1,000 copies which makes them best sellers in the > poetry world. For us our Simon Perchik collected, the Will > Alexander book, Tony Gloeggler (a first book), a few others, all were > chosen from appearing in our journal first. > > Outside of our first book contest, we primarily publish first books, > with some collected or selected (but some of the selected poems have > been first books also). > > For an author, I find the disadvantage of a publisher who uses POD is > a lack of interest in marketing the books. They do not have a garage > full of them they wish to empty out. For Pavement Saw, it has been a > good year; I can park my car this winter. I've had one or more reviews > appear in the last year for six titles that were published from 1998 > to 2003. I do not see POD publishers as having a vested interest in > pushing their mid- or back-title lists. > > Larger publishers remainder their stock for .50 cents to $1 a copy to > Half-Price books and other chains to inflict their titles on an > uninterested public. For them, poetry only has value if it sells > within nine months, otherwise it is immediately excised from print. > > As for publishing yourself, I can see it for chapbooks, the expense is > not there. For books, the book of poems "exists," but only if bought, > if they are never printed then the audience is theoretical also. In > nearly all instances self publishing a physical full length > collection seems an ego inflating measure of being able to quip "I > have a book" rather than a serious attempt to connect with an entirely > unknown readership that your work would be important to. > > I cannot think of any self published books of poems composed of words > (not PDF's, or e-books or so on), that have made substantial impact in > the last 10 years. Some vispo collections (maybe those are smaller > potential fields to begin with) but not poetry. Maybe I have missed > that boat, are there any that come to mind for you'all? > > > > > > > > > Be well > > David Baratier, Editor > > Pavement Saw Press > 321 Empire Street > Montpelier OH 43543 > http://pavementsaw.org > > Subscribe to our e-mail listserv at > http://pavementsaw.org/list/?p=subscribe&id=1 > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > Be well David Baratier, Editor Pavement Saw Press 321 Empire Street Montpelier OH 43543 http://pavementsaw.org Subscribe to our e-mail listserv at http://pavementsaw.org/list/?p=subscribe&id=1 --------------------------------- Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman Sat Jan 19 16:59:53 2008 From: bobgrumman (Bob Grumman) Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2008 16:59:53 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Recommending Poetry Presses? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <479272D9.3010601@nut-n-but.net> AlMaginnes at aol.com wrote: > No no no. You send ME a thousand bucks and I'll weigh your offer > alongside all the other agents who are hounding me night and day for > my poetic output. Boy, you try to help a guy out . . . --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Opus40-01 Sat Jan 19 17:09:46 2008 From: Opus40-01 (TheOldMole) Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2008 17:09:46 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Recommending Poetry Presses? In-Reply-To: <479272D9.3010601@nut-n-but.net> References: <479272D9.3010601@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <4792752A.6090404@opus40.org> I'll do it for $500. Bob Grumman wrote: > > > AlMaginnes at aol.com wrote: >> No no no. You send ME a thousand bucks and I'll weigh your offer >> alongside all the other agents who are hounding me night and day for >> my poetic output. > Boy, you try to help a guy out . . . > > --Bob > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ The moral is this: in American verse, The better you are, the pay is worse. --Corey Ford From bobgrumman Sat Jan 19 17:47:03 2008 From: bobgrumman (Bob Grumman) Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2008 17:47:03 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Recommending Poetry Presses? In-Reply-To: <4792752A.6090404@opus40.org> References: <479272D9.3010601@nut-n-but.net> <4792752A.6090404@opus40.org> Message-ID: <47927DE7.3080001@nut-n-but.net> TheOldMole wrote: > I'll do it for $500. > > Bob Grumman wrote: Okay, I'll throw in two 2008 season tickets to the Miami Dolphins home games. (Damn this cutthroat business!) --Bob From editor Sat Jan 19 18:13:42 2008 From: editor (David Baratier) Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2008 15:13:42 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Recommending Poetry Presses? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <916336.44684.qm@web45614.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> jfq at myuw.net wrote: It's what one does with the book and about the book, and the quality of the work in the book that makes it worthwhile or not. Not who publishes it. ---------------------------- I disagree, I do not think an author, a "true poet," should find it necessary to focus on how to sell themselves. An author should not have to be concerned about what they do "with the book and about the book" after it appears. Perchik is a good example of a person who has no interest in reading, conducting workshops or anything else of that sort to promote his collections. His interest is in writing poems. My interest was in finding an audience for him after 50+ years of not having a substantial volume of record. To be able to talk with individuals throughout the US and strike up correspondences with people I've never met in Australia, New Zealand, England, Germany, Austria, Switzerland and so on and discuss notions of "punctive and typographical metonymy" found within the book was a joy. So was a review from a publishing hero of mine, Tony Frazier, in Shearsman. Or another in the London Times. Or the Library Journal. I spent a few years putting that collection together and if someone wants an editor who actually thinks about, edits, and questions the work, rather than just wanting it published by "somebody," we are one of those places. An active editor is important, who publishes it does matter. Be well David Baratier, Editor Pavement Saw Press 321 Empire Street Montpelier OH 43543 http://pavementsaw.org Subscribe to our e-mail listserv at http://pavementsaw.org/list/?p=subscribe&id=1 --------------------------------- Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From AlMaginnes Sat Jan 19 18:14:27 2008 From: AlMaginnes (AlMaginnes at aol.com) Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2008 18:14:27 EST Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Recommending Poetry Presses? Message-ID: In that case I'm going to need $1500. **************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape. http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman Sat Jan 19 19:04:56 2008 From: bobgrumman (Bob Grumman) Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2008 19:04:56 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Recommending Poetry Presses? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <47929028.7040706@nut-n-but.net> AlMaginnes at aol.com wrote: > In that case I'm going to need $1500. > > > All I can say is that this is a perfect example of why poets never make the big bucks. Well, I'm outta here. --Bob G. From millb Sat Jan 19 19:20:52 2008 From: millb (millb at aol.com) Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2008 19:20:52 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Recommending Poetry Presses? In-Reply-To: <47929028.7040706@nut-n-but.net> References: <47929028.7040706@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <8CA29117335C617-E68-5735@webmail-de08.sysops.aol.com> Do you think working outside academic life has an impact on one's writing?? -----Original Message----- From: Bob Grumman Bcc: millb at aol.com Sent: Sat, 19 Jan 2008 4:04 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Re: Recommending Poetry Presses? ? AlMaginnes at aol.com wrote:? > In that case I'm going to need $1500.? >? >? >? All I can say is that this is a perfect example of why poets never make the big bucks. Well, I'm outta here.? ? --Bob G.? ? _______________________________________________? New-Poetry mailing list? New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu? http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry? ________________________________________________________________________ More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://webmail.aol.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Sigauke Sat Jan 19 19:32:13 2008 From: Sigauke (Sigauke, Emmanuel ) Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2008 16:32:13 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Recommending Poetry Presses? References: <47929028.7040706@nut-n-but.net> <8CA29117335C617-E68-5735@webmail-de08.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <31F3BD8702DDAD4DAFEAB5245EAAED661D30DD@CRC-EXCH01.crc.ad.losrios.edu> The impact for me was negative. That was the time I did no writing at all, concerned all the time with corporate productivity. ________________________________ From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu on behalf of millb at aol.com Sent: Sat 1/19/2008 4:20 PM To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Re: Recommending Poetry Presses? Do you think working outside academic life has an impact on one's writing? -----Original Message----- From: Bob Grumman Bcc: millb at aol.com Sent: Sat, 19 Jan 2008 4:04 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Re: Recommending Poetry Presses? AlMaginnes at aol.com wrote: > In that case I'm going to need $1500. > > > All I can say is that this is a perfect example of why poets never make the big bucks. Well, I'm outta here. --Bob G. _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry ________________________________ More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mandolin Sat Jan 19 19:42:42 2008 From: mandolin (Michael Snider) Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2008 19:42:42 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Recommending Poetry Presses? In-Reply-To: <479263EA.3060108@nut-n-but.net> References: <479234B3.7020807@nut-n-but.net> <7A388E5E-2A56-4FCA-936B-EE5F1329D940@mac.com> <479263EA.3060108@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <1D3D9ED2-E265-4F92-BF09-8B978944AD1A@mac.com> On Jan 19, 2008, at 3:56 PM, Bob Grumman wrote: > Of course, my point is that if you're any good, you can't make it > your day job. But Wilbur and Cope and Carruth do, by your standards. Ad they are very good--Wilbur arguably the greatest lving American poet. http://www.mikesnider.org for the Sonnetarium From grahamd Sat Jan 19 20:50:05 2008 From: grahamd (David Graham) Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2008 19:50:05 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Wilbur In-Reply-To: <1D3D9ED2-E265-4F92-BF09-8B978944AD1A@mac.com> References: <479234B3.7020807@nut-n-but.net> <7A388E5E-2A56-4FCA-936B-EE5F1329D940@mac.com> <479263EA.3060108@nut-n-but.net> <1D3D9ED2-E265-4F92-BF09-8B978944AD1A@mac.com> Message-ID: I thought Wilbur was a lifelong teacher. Isn't that so? (Retired now, I imagine.) As for his being the greatest living American poet, you won't get any argument from me. He even has a school of poetry named after him, Wilshburia. . . . Others will argue, of course, but what's notable to me is the sheer consistency of his brand of excellence, at which he really does have no peer. When he passes on I expect I'll feel as badly as I will when Doc Watson goes. . . . ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/About%20Me.html Poetry Library: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== On Jan 19, 2008, at 6:42 PM, Michael Snider wrote: > > On Jan 19, 2008, at 3:56 PM, Bob Grumman wrote: > >> Of course, my point is that if you're any good, you can't make it >> your day job. > > > But Wilbur and Cope and Carruth do, by your standards. Ad they are > very good--Wilbur arguably the greatest lving American poet. > > > http://www.mikesnider.org for the Sonnetarium > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jfq Sat Jan 19 21:14:08 2008 From: jfq (jfq at myuw.net) Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2008 18:14:08 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] Recommending Poetry Presses? In-Reply-To: <000c01c85ab4$41ffdec0$78eb114f@ANNY> Message-ID: I and I? are you a rastafarian? Painting for me was never much more than a hobby, but my first college degree was in music and there was a time in my life when I spent six or seven hours a day practicing the various instruments I play. Since my major was focused on audio recording I also spent about 25 hours a week practicing thst in the recording studios at school. I also worked crappy jobs that had flexible schedules so I could do it. ANd it was good to do that for a while while I was learning because it let me get to the level where i didn't need to do that anymore. Now I play when I want to, I write when I want to, and I work a normal schedule so I can get enough sleep, and it all seems to work out. I don't feel like I'm giving up something to work. I have friends who are painters with gallery representation who also work day jobs, and it doesn't seem to interfere with their painting. I don't know, it just seems like its unecessary to me to focus your whole working life on one thing. I much prefer the Henry Darger model than the single minded, single approach artist as lifestyle model. Although I can't think of anyone who really fits that model to give a name to it. On Sat, 19 Jan 2008, Anny Ballardini wrote: > I and I > can understand both positions. I used to advocate for the one that a life (job) > is complementary to poetry. In Bob's case his visual art requires painting as > well which builds up to three simultaneous lives. As a matter of fact I have > stopped painting, the same dirt colors require does not get along with teaching > and going to meetings and dealing with documents and so forth. There is also > Tad who draws (paints?), how can you deal with it all? Would you rather opt for > a life dedicated to art only? > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: > To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views" > > Sent: Saturday, January 19, 2008 2:11 PM > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Recommending Poetry Presses? > > >> >> >> >> On Sat, 19 Jan 2008, Bob Grumman wrote: >> >>> >>> >>> >>>> >>>> yep. the people who decide what counts don't count. >>>> >>>> >>> Unfortunately, they do count: for getting one's work into circulation and >>> for getting money to one. This latter is significant, unless you have >>> rich parents who dote on you. Without it, you have to work at a job you >>> probably won't like that takes time away from your poetry. >> >> I reject that argument. What's so bad about having a day job? I like my job >> fine and it has nothing to do with poetry, or really anything I "enjoy" and >> I don't ever feel like I don't have time to write and submit poetry. And i >> still find time to write and play music, make recordings of things, take the >> occasional evening class, participate on a couple of listservs, watch >> movies, read books, play video games, blog and have a social life. Devoting >> the entirety of your life to a single pursuit is a goofy way to live, in my >> opinion. You're going to have to have a day job no matter what, unless >> you're one of those creepy types who call themselves "Freelance writers" and >> write for Magazines. >> >> So no, the people who decide what counts don't count, because all they're >> doing is stroking their own egos and setting up hierarchies of human >> importance based on the lamest possible criteria: popularity. >> >> I didn't care for it in highschool, and now that I'm an adult I'm free to >> walk away from that sort of sycophancy, narcissism, and shallowness. If >> everyone else did the same rather than desparately trying to make money from >> their work so that they can be a "Real" whatever it is they do, then I think >> the world would be a much more pleasant place. And then recognize that if >> you choose to work in a medium that doesn't have big financial rewards for >> hardly anybody, reconcile yourself to the fact that the rewards ain't >> coming. Nobody deserves to get paid for writing good poetry. I personally >> have no interest in it what so ever. Having freed myself from the dumb >> notion that one needs to avoid developing employable skills in interesting >> fields of work in order to perfect ones art, I have born out the experiment >> I played out in my own life and discovered that 1.) who you work with is >> more important than what you work on 2.) there are jobs with good people >> that pay a living wage to be had and 3.) it's amazingly easy to leave it all >> in the office when you walk out the door at five o'clock. >> >> which is to say i have no sympathy for anyone who complains they have to >> work for a living. I'd like to have a trust fund and Maya Angelou's book >> contract, but that's not the cards I got played. So I have to work for a >> living. I will have to work for a living until I have enough money >> squirreled away to take care of myself until I die. And in the meantime I >> have health care with company paid dental, and I don't hate what I do. How >> did I manage this amazing feet? I have realistic expectations about the >> differences between the work you do to get paid and the work you do for >> love. >> >> So as a result I much prefer this way of living. It's more comfortable, I'm >> happier, and I have a wider range of things to write about than I did when I >> was broke bohemian post punk guitar player working crappy jobs for minimum >> wage. I can still be a bohemian post punk guitar player with a job I don't >> hate that pays me enough to live on comfortably, and I can write poetry at >> the same time. The three different things have nothing at all to do with one >> another. >> >> Or to put it a different way, thank god i don't have to write for a living, >> because I'd get completely bored of it before a month was out. > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > From Opus40-01 Sat Jan 19 21:39:05 2008 From: Opus40-01 (TheOldMole) Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2008 21:39:05 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Wilbur In-Reply-To: References: <479234B3.7020807@nut-n-but.net> <7A388E5E-2A56-4FCA-936B-EE5F1329D940@mac.com> <479263EA.3060108@nut-n-but.net> <1D3D9ED2-E265-4F92-BF09-8B978944AD1A@mac.com> Message-ID: <4792B449.1070405@opus40.org> Wilbur taught at Wesleyan University for two decades and at Smith College for another decade. David Graham wrote: > I thought Wilbur was a lifelong teacher. Isn't that so? (Retired > now, I imagine.) > > As for his being the greatest living American poet, you won't get any > argument from me. He even has a school of poetry named after him, > Wilshburia. . . . Others will argue, of course, but what's notable > to me is the sheer consistency of his brand of excellence, at which he > really does have no peer. When he passes on I expect I'll feel as > badly as I will when Doc Watson goes. . . . > > > ======================================== > David Graham > grahamd at ripon.edu > > Home Page: > http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/About%20Me.html > > Poetry Library: > http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html > ========================================== > > > > On Jan 19, 2008, at 6:42 PM, Michael Snider wrote: > >> >> On Jan 19, 2008, at 3:56 PM, Bob Grumman wrote: >> >>> Of course, my point is that if you're any good, you can't make it >>> your day job. >> >> >> But Wilbur and Cope and Carruth do, by your standards. Ad they are >> very good--Wilbur arguably the greatest lving American poet. >> >> >> http://www.mikesnider.org for the Sonnetarium >> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ The moral is this: in American verse, The better you are, the pay is worse. --Corey Ford From mandolin Sat Jan 19 22:33:10 2008 From: mandolin (Michael Snider) Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2008 22:33:10 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Wilbur In-Reply-To: <4792B449.1070405@opus40.org> References: <479234B3.7020807@nut-n-but.net> <7A388E5E-2A56-4FCA-936B-EE5F1329D940@mac.com> <479263EA.3060108@nut-n-but.net> <1D3D9ED2-E265-4F92-BF09-8B978944AD1A@mac.com> <4792B449.1070405@opus40.org> Message-ID: <9953CD88-A206-486B-B908-AE3A8E7CE425@mac.com> True--he did teach 30 years. But He retired from teaching in the mid-80s, and has done very well from his translations of Moliere and Racine. Pretty much whenever Moliere is performed in English, he gets some money. I'm going to be at West Chester this June, where Wilbur will give the keynote reading. I saw him there for his 80th birthday celebration in 2001, and yuou couldn't call his 40 minute presentation a reading--he recited everything from memory in that beautiful voice of his. On Jan 19, 2008, at 9:39 PM, TheOldMole wrote: > Wilbur taught at Wesleyan University > for two decades and at Smith College > for another decade. > > David Graham wrote: >> I thought Wilbur was a lifelong teacher. Isn't that so? (Retired >> now, I imagine.) >> As for his being the greatest living American poet, you won't get >> any argument from me. He even has a school of poetry named after >> him, Wilshburia. . . . Others will argue, of course, but what's >> notable to me is the sheer consistency of his brand of excellence, >> at which he really does have no peer. When he passes on I expect >> I'll feel as badly as I will when Doc Watson goes. . . . From bobgrumman Sat Jan 19 22:36:38 2008 From: bobgrumman (Bob Grumman) Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2008 22:36:38 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Recommending Poetry Presses? In-Reply-To: <8CA29117335C617-E68-5735@webmail-de08.sysops.aol.com> References: <47929028.7040706@nut-n-but.net> <8CA29117335C617-E68-5735@webmail-de08.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <4792C1C6.1070302@nut-n-but.net> millb at aol.com wrote: > Do you think working outside academic life has an impact on one's > writing? > > I should think it would depend on the writer. I'm sort of a classicist in that I tend to write about "the eternal realities" rather than the present, so I think I'd write the same as I do now if I were an academic. Come to think of it, I don't think I've ever mentioned any of my jobs in a poem--except for one early one the mentioned a factory, very generalizedly. --Bob G. From bobgrumman Sat Jan 19 22:40:16 2008 From: bobgrumman (Bob Grumman) Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2008 22:40:16 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Recommending Poetry Presses? In-Reply-To: <1D3D9ED2-E265-4F92-BF09-8B978944AD1A@mac.com> References: <479234B3.7020807@nut-n-but.net><7A388E5E-2A56-4FCA-936B-E E5F1329D940@mac.com><479263EA.3060108@nut-n-but.net> <1D3D9ED2-E265-4F92-BF09-8B978944AD1A@mac.com> Message-ID: <4792C2A0.2060003@nut-n-but.net> Michael Snider wrote: > > On Jan 19, 2008, at 3:56 PM, Bob Grumman wrote: > >> Of course, my point is that if you're any good, you can't make it >> your day job. > > > But Wilbur and Cope and Carruth do, by your standards. And they are > very good--Wilbur arguably the greatest living American poet. > I don't rate them as high as you do, but--sure--there are exceptions. I left out "for the most part," or the like, in my blurt. --Bob G. From bobgrumman Sat Jan 19 22:43:21 2008 From: bobgrumman (Bob Grumman) Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2008 22:43:21 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Wilbur In-Reply-To: References: <479234B3.7020807@nut-n-but.net><7A388E5E-2A56-4FCA-936B-E E5F1329D940@mac.com><479263EA.3060108@nut-n-but.net><1D3D9ED2-E265-4F92-BF09-8B978944AD1A@mac.com> Message-ID: <4792C359.8070904@nut-n-but.net> David Graham wrote: > I thought Wilbur was a lifelong teacher. Isn't that so? (Retired > now, I imagine.) > > As for his being the greatest living American poet, you won't get any > argument from me. He even has a school of poetry named after him, > Wilshburia. . . . Others will argue, of course, but what's notable > to me is the sheer consistency of his brand of excellence, at which he > really does have no peer. When he passes on I expect I'll feel as > badly as I will when Doc Watson goes. . . . > > Come on, David: Wilshburia is named after Wilbur and Ashbery, and it isn't a school of poetry, it's the narrow part of the contemporary continuum that professors consider themselves eclectic for enjoying the whole of. --Bob G. From bobgrumman Sat Jan 19 22:48:09 2008 From: bobgrumman (Bob Grumman) Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2008 22:48:09 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Wilbur In-Reply-To: <4792B449.1070405@opus40.org> References: <479234B3.7020807@nut-n-but.net> <7A388E5E-2A56-4FCA-936B-EE5F1329D940@mac.com> <479263EA.3060108@nut-n-but.net> <1D3D9ED2-E265-4F92-BF09-8B978944AD1A@mac.com> <4792B449.1070405@opus40.org> Message-ID: <4792C479.3010707@nut-n-but.net> TheOldMole wrote: > Wilbur taught at Wesleyan University > for two decades and > at Smith College for > another decade. > > David Graham wrote: >> I thought Wilbur was a lifelong teacher. Isn't that so? (Retired >> now, I imagine.) >> As for his being the greatest living American poet, you won't get any >> argument from me. He even has a school of poetry named after him, >> Wilshburia. . . . Others will argue, of course, but what's notable >> to me is the sheer consistency of his brand of excellence, at which >> he really does have no peer. When he passes on I expect I'll feel >> as badly as I will when Doc Watson goes. . . . >> > Well, I asked if teaching poetry was a way of making poetry one's day > job. I think it is, the way I consider running a small poetry press a > way of making poetry one's day job, or would be if done to make, uh, > money? --Bob G. From jfq Sat Jan 19 22:49:28 2008 From: jfq (jfq at myuw.net) Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2008 19:49:28 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] Recommending Poetry Presses? In-Reply-To: <479234B3.7020807@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: On Sat, 19 Jan 2008, Bob Grumman wrote: > > > jfq at myuw.net wrote: >> I reject that argument. What's so bad about having a day job? I like my job >> fine and it has nothing to do with poetry, or really anything I "enjoy" and >> I don't ever feel like I don't have time to write and submit poetry. > Oh, because you've been lucky enough to find a job you like and that pays > reasonably well, it's okay for other poets not to get grants and the like for > their poetry. I've just never really considered it an option for myself. I don't know how to go about writing a grant proposal, I don't know where such grants come from, and I don't feel the need to do the work of finding out. I do have friends who work in the sciences where the writing of grants is important to their livelihoods, and it looks an awful lot to me like the pursuit of funding takes up almost as much of their time as their research does. Maybe that's an exaggeration and maybe things work differently in the arts I really don't know. All I can say is that I know from experience supporting ones creative work doesn't have to happen through the patronage of various grant giving instituations. Granted, I'm not nearly as widely exposed to an audience as a lot of the folks on this list are, and I would like to have more readers than I do. At the same time, it seems to me that there's a path to that that is more or less a bit of a crap shoot and the odds just never seemed worth it to me. Maybe my experiment of trying to be my own patron will fail in the long run, who knows? It's entirely possible that through no flaw in my work nobody will remember it once the people who know me personally are dead and buried because I haven't had enough time to devote to the work of promoting it. It's a risk that you take when you don't do things in the normal "famous creative person" kind of way. At the same time, I think that that's definitely true of a lot of the people who write what you call Iowa Plain Text Lyric poetry (which description I love, btw) who are doing the work of trying to get published in the New Yorker and the Paris Review, some of whom will get in there and will get enough in grants to support themselves and their work until they shuffle off and still won't make any impact as artists. at the same time, william carlos williams isn't remembered for the contributions he made to medicine, nor is Henry Darger remembered for the contributions he made to the custodial sciences. I guess what I'm trying to say is there's more than one way to skin a cat, and no matter what way you choose sometimes all you end up with is a dead tabby. >> And i still find time to write and play music, make recordings of things, >> take the occasional evening class, participate on a couple of listservs, >> watch movies, read books, play video games, blog and have a social life. >> Devoting the entirety of your life to a single pursuit is a goofy way to >> live, in my opinion. > Who said anything about devoting one's life to a single pursuit, although to > each his own? How about devoting one's life to things one enjoys and getting > paid for what one produces instead of wasting half one's life at something one > doesn't enjoy in order to do a few of the things one does enjoy. For me, it wasn't that kind of a trade off. I never really looked at the things I knew I enjoyed (art, music, literature) as something I could rely on to pay the bills, so I did my best to find something I could tolerate to do that and leave me enough free time outside of work to do my other work. And I don't look at that as a waste of time, because it lets me do things like buy expensive audio equipment and fancy computers to run demanding signal processing algorithms. Granted, none of it is top of the line and "expensive" and "fancy" are highly relative terms, but I can make do and be proud of the work I do. Maybe things would be easier if Dana Gioia was handing me a check a couple of times a year to work on my various projects, and maybe it wouldn't. From my experiences when I've been laid off and living on unemployment, I can't say that having more time would let me be more productive, since I wasn't. But maybe that's just me. >> You're going to have to have a day job no matter what, unless you're one of >> those creepy types who call themselves "Freelance writers" and write for >> Magazines. >> > Right. But I'm saying poetry should be your day job, if you're good at it, and > as it is for some who are not good at it. I can agree there. I think a lot of people who are doing and have done really good work should be able to make a living at it. But if you're subsisting off of grants and a university professorships are you really making a living off of that work? Or are you making a living from being able to get the people who say what counts to think you count too? As we both know, it's not necessary to do good work to make that happen, so there must be something else at play there. >> So no, the people who decide what counts don't count, because all they're >> doing is stroking their own egos and setting up hierarchies of human >> importance based on the lamest possible criteria: popularity. > It's more complex than that. For instance, many of them base it on the > criterion of political correctness. And being mediocre is much more important > to all of them than being popular. Agreed. Still, I think the popularity contest is a big part of it and for some reason I'm a little scared to unpack being mediocre and being politically correct drives popularity. Ted Kooser got made poet laureate, which as far as I can tell is the biggest popularity contest there is in poetry, specifically because of his mediocrity. He's even proud of his mediocrity, which is just bizarre if you ask me. > > Needless to say, I agree that the people deciding what counts don't count so > far as the ultimate value of one's poetry is concerned, but they do count so > far as the conditions of life for most poets is concerned. And, I contend, for > their poetry. Here is a for instance supporting the latter: five or six years > ago, the Atlantic Center for the Arts in New Smyrna Beach, Florida, for > possibly the only time in its existence made an innovative artist (Richard > Kostelanetz) an artist in residence (or the equivalent). They do this several > times a year. the Artist chosen gets two or three weeks there and can invite > ten or twelve other artists to join him. Back then these latter got free room > and board and use of computers, recording rooms, etc. So, as one invited along > by Richard, I got to spend two weeks with equipment I can't afford myself > and--most important--with fellow artists doing work similar to mine... Even > then, I might not have been able to take advantage of it if it hadn't happened > to take place in the summer when I was off from my day job (which I do rather > enjoy, by the way, but consider an extreme hindrance). Maybe where we disagree then is just a matter of perspective. For me, I was a musician before I was a poet and the music scene I came of age in (the "American Underground" for lack of a better term) and which helped shape a lot of my values placed a high premium on the DIY ethic that was epitomized by Ian McKaye and Fugazi and their record label Dischord. There are a lot of guys who make a living in that scene without any sort of patronage just through social networking and a lot of hard work at it. But a lot more do it for the love of doing it and just recognize having a day job as an important component in being able to do it. Yeah, life is easier if you have the patronage of a major label to pay your recording costs and get you distribution and tour dates, but it isn't the only way to go, and there's a real sense in that community that doing it that way is just selling out anyway and that one is able to work better without all those trappings. In a lot of ways, I've carried those values over into my work as a writer. And that means that rather than looking at my day job as a hindrance, I look at it as something that allows me to do the things I want to do. I am my own patron and I kind of like it that way. To put this in perspective, when I was at Berklee one of my classmates in the Music Engineering program was a kid named Ari Raskin who I liked ok but wasn't particularly close to. We did work on our senior project together, him as a producer and me as an engineer and I think we put together a kick ass demo for a band called Kudu. I'd say we were more or less equally talented and probably equally connected, so it's a good comparison for me personally. When we graduated he left Boston and went to New York to work in the studio system there, and I went back to seattle and got a job selling audio equipment to hobbyists. As a result he's a really well nkown producer and the head engineer at a major recording stufio now and I have to subsidize my work on my audio poetry and music that I make on my laptop with pro-sumer gear I usually go into debt to pay for by working as a consultant for a company that has nothing to do with any of the things I'm passionate about. The job has its perks like getting to travel and not having to worry about getting sick because I have good benefits. But he's the one of the two of us who when people ask him at a bar what he does for a living he gets to say he's a record producer while my answer is the less cool sounding "I'm the production coordinator for a firm that does quality assurance consulting to the BPO industry." Which, if you even know what it means, is never going to get anybody to ask me for my autograph. Still, I don't think I'd trade places with him, because I still think the work I do in my bedroom is just as interesting and cool as the best stuff he's done, and better than a lot of the crap he's had to do because he's doing it as a career. Which isn't to say I don't envy his success, I do, but I look at that more as a challenge to proving that I can do things my own way than as a diminishment of my own work. And I look at my poetry in pretty much the same way. >In conclusion, I just > don't see how you can blithely claim that the gatekeepers don't count for > poets, in general, just because having a day job works for you. I suppose my quip that the people who say what counts don't count is overly simplistic, but I like it as a slogan. It's a statement about the world as I'd like it to be. Where the only people who get to say what counts is an audience that everyone has equal access to. And I'd rather work to make that world come about than play the games of this one. It's a personal choice, and I won't say it's the only one or even the best one, but i do think it's a good one and it's got the advantage that its one that everyone can choose. From jfq Sat Jan 19 22:56:29 2008 From: jfq (jfq at myuw.net) Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2008 19:56:29 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Recommending Poetry Presses? In-Reply-To: <4792752A.6090404@opus40.org> Message-ID: I'll do it for a 10 dollar starbucks card. On Sat, 19 Jan 2008, TheOldMole wrote: > I'll do it for $500. > > Bob Grumman wrote: >> >> >> AlMaginnes at aol.com wrote: >>> No no no. You send ME a thousand bucks and I'll weigh your offer alongside >>> all the other agents who are hounding me night and day for my poetic >>> output. >> Boy, you try to help a guy out . . . >> >> --Bob >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> > > -- > Tad Richards > http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ > http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ > > The moral is this: in American verse, > The better you are, the pay is worse. > --Corey Ford > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > From Rsgwynn1 Sat Jan 19 23:03:03 2008 From: Rsgwynn1 (Rsgwynn1 at cs.com) Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2008 23:03:03 EST Subject: [New-Poetry] Wilbur Message-ID: In a message dated 1/19/2008 9:33:45 PM Central Standard Time, mandolin at mac.com writes: > True--he did teach 30 years. But He retired from teaching in the > mid-80s, and has done very well from his translations of Moliere and > Racine. Pretty much whenever Moliere is performed in English, he gets > some money. > > I'm going to be at West Chester this June, where Wilbur will give the > keynote reading. I saw him there for his 80th birthday celebration in > 2001, and yuou couldn't call his 40 minute presentation a reading--he > recited everything from memory in that beautiful voice of his. I can't wait to hear and see him. He lost his wife last year but seems to be doing fine. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd Sat Jan 19 23:28:46 2008 From: grahamd (David Graham) Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2008 22:28:46 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Wilbur In-Reply-To: <4792C359.8070904@nut-n-but.net> References: <479234B3.7020807@nut-n-but.net><7A388E5E-2A56-4FCA-936B-E E5F1329D940@mac.com><479263EA.3060108@nut-n-but.net><1D3D9ED2-E265-4F92-BF09-8B978944AD1A@mac.com> <4792C359.8070904@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <7421C647-DA60-496B-9632-13F2882B6C24@ripon.edu> Gosh. Another of my finely honed witticisms misfires. . . . ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/About%20Me.html Poetry Library: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== On Jan 19, 2008, at 9:43 PM, Bob Grumman wrote: > > > David Graham wrote: >> I thought Wilbur was a lifelong teacher. Isn't that so? (Retired >> now, I imagine.) >> As for his being the greatest living American poet, you won't get >> any argument from me. He even has a school of poetry named after >> him, Wilshburia. . . . Others will argue, of course, but what's >> notable to me is the sheer consistency of his brand of excellence, >> at which he really does have no peer. When he passes on I expect >> I'll feel as badly as I will when Doc Watson goes. . . . >> >> > Come on, David: Wilshburia is named after Wilbur and Ashbery, and > it isn't a school of poetry, it's the narrow part of the > contemporary continuum that professors consider themselves eclectic > for enjoying the whole of. > > --Bob G. > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman Sun Jan 20 08:49:37 2008 From: bobgrumman (Bob Grumman) Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2008 08:49:37 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Wilbur In-Reply-To: <7421C647-DA60-496B-9632-13F2882B6C24@ripon.edu> References: <479234B3.7020807@nut-n-but.net><7A388E5E-2A56-4FCA-936B-E E5F1329D940@mac.com><479263EA.3060108@nut-n-but.net><1D3D9ED2-E265-4F92-BF09-8B978944AD1A@mac.com><4792C359.8070904@nut-n-but.net> <7421C647-DA60-496B-9632-13F2882B6C24@ripon.edu> Message-ID: <47935171.6050108@nut-n-but.net> David Graham wrote: > Gosh. Another of my finely honed witticisms misfires. . . . Don't take such a defeatist attitude, David: look on what you said as a perfect set-up for MY finely-honed barb. --Bob G. From bobgrumman Sun Jan 20 09:44:02 2008 From: bobgrumman (Bob Grumman) Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2008 09:44:02 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Recommending Poetry Presses? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <47935E32.1010001@nut-n-but.net> I think we're basically on the same page, jf. I was just arguing against the idea that having to have a day job should be no problem. I'm sure it isn't for many, and is even a plus for some, but for others, it's a hindrance. I agree that the people who count, don't count--in any finally meaningful way. But they do count in important secondary ways--though we all find ways to make it despite them. --Bob From skip Sun Jan 20 15:32:55 2008 From: skip (Skip Fox) Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2008 14:32:55 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Recommending Poetry Presses? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <00a401c85ba3$aa275380$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> I was joking. I know all too many of them. -----Original Message----- From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of jfq at myuw.net Sent: Friday, January 18, 2008 9:20 PM To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views Subject: RE: [New-Poetry] Recommending Poetry Presses? On Fri, 18 Jan 2008, Skip Fox wrote: > (Actually some people have made their names by winning prizes, but I can't > remember any of them.) BH Fairchild is probably the best example. If I recall correctly, his first manuscript was published after he won a contest. Also, Anthony McCann's Father of Noise is a contest winner that's very good. I can see the attraction of being legitimized by a publisher, but what if no one ever legitimizes you? Cory Doctorow has made very interesting progress as a writer giving his novels away for free and self publishing, and in the end you're as legitimate as your work is. Sure most self published books suck, but so do a sizable majority of major press poetry books. The legitimization of the markt, that is, people buying your book, is ultimately what matters if you really want to sell your work. And it's been proven a couple of times now that it's possible to do that without the backing of an established poetry press. _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From jforjames Sun Jan 20 18:23:53 2008 From: jforjames (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2008 18:23:53 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Recommending Poetry Presses? In-Reply-To: <479263EA.3060108@nut-n-but.net> References: <479234B3.7020807@nut-n-but.net> <7A388E5E-2A56-4FCA-936B-EE5F1329D940@mac.com> <479263EA.3060108@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <8CA29D2A7A460CE-1528-FFC@webmail-da10.sysops.aol.com> I seem to remember that Cummings, like Hart Crane, had familly money. So he didn't really need to work, whatever the fortunes of his poetry. Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: Bob Grumman I'd add that some poets could make it their day job but enjoy having another more munificent related one, like teaching. Frost, could surely have lived off his earnings as a poet had he wanted to. Seems to me Cummings did. If not, I don't know what he did for a living.? ? I wonder, too, if teaching poetry should count as a day job for poets.? ? --Bob G.? ? ________________________________________________________________________ More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://webmail.aol.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jfq Mon Jan 21 03:17:37 2008 From: jfq (Jason Quackenbush) Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 00:17:37 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Recommending Poetry Presses? In-Reply-To: <921282.35994.qm@web45615.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: <921282.35994.qm@web45615.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <47945521.2020303@myuw.net> Who am I? I'm the guy you were responding to on the New Poetry list. For some reason, the response went straight to your email rather than to the list. Do you usually respond that way to emails from people you don't recognize? It's not a problem except that it came off as really rude until I realized that the mail had been sent off list and that you hadn't recognized my email address and you weren't asking "who are you"? as in "why should I give a damn what you think?" so much as "why are you sending me email?" One email writer to another, given the limitations of electronic communications, a little politesse goes a long way. And the crapshoot you is what i'm talking about. No press can guarantee that they're going to get their authors reviewed in Poetry or the Times Book Review or even teh Village Voice or the Stranger. That's what I was talking about when I said "not everybody you publish gets the kind of coverage you're talking about." For those people, what's the difference between having the book out on a press versus hustling it themselves? I really don't know is why i'm asking. I do know people who've self published and sold in the kinds of numbers you're talking about with your worst selling titles, although they tend to be touring performance poets. Which I offer as evidence for my point that the worth of a book doesn't have to do with who publishes it. The larger the publisher, the more exposure you're going to get, true. But the larger the publisher the harder it is to get their attention as well. Again, six and a half dozen of the other. What does someone with a really good book that's well put together and is willing to work hard to get people to see it get from going with a small publisher other than a smaller share of the profits (if any) and someone else to take on the printing costs? David Baratier wrote: > First, who are you? > > Our worst selling books clear 500 in the first year, even for authors > who have no interest in promoting the book. How well they are reviewed > is a crapshoot, sometimes they take off, like Rachel M. Simon's first > book which was reviewed in Publisher's Weekly and Poetry plus a bunch > of others. > > Perchik was friends with Paul Blackburn starting in the 40's and > started the reading series with him that became The (St. Marks) Poetry > Project, that is the Olson connection. I think Kennedy was through > Robert (?) Peterson who reviewed one of his books unexpectedly and > interested him in Si's work. It could have been through David Ignatow > also, I forget. Yale would have those files. The book is $30 but it is > also 612 pages. > > */jfq at myuw.net/* wrote: > > It's a good point you make David, and I'm willing to modify my > view to it can matter but it doesn't have to. But either way it's > hard to get that attention and for a lot of people who have the > will to do the work themselves it's six and a half dozen of the > other which route you take. A press like yours does a lot of good > work for your authors. But not everybody you publish gets the kind > of coverage you're talking about, do they? Looking at the Pavement > Saw page for Perchik, it strikes me that there are few people in > the world whose work would garner endorsements from both Charles > Olson (what's the provenance of that by the way? It looks like > it's excerpted from a larger statement.) and XJ Kennedy. > > Anyway, you're definitely doing good work, because now I'm > intrigued and will buy it whereas it had been off my radar before. > Still, 30 bucks for a perfect bound trade paperback? I'm glad it's > going to a good cause. > > > > On Sat, 19 Jan 2008, David Baratier wrote: > > > jfq at myuw.net wrote: It's what one does with the book and about > the book, and the quality of the work in the book that makes it > worthwhile or not. Not who publishes it. > > > > > > ---------------------------- > > I disagree, I do not think an author, a "true poet," should find > it necessary to focus on how to sell themselves. An author should > not have to be concerned about what they do "with the book and > about the book" after it appears. Perchik is a good example of a > person who has no interest in reading, conducting workshops or > anything else of that sort to promote his collections. His > interest is in writing poems. > > > > My interest was in finding an audience for him after 50+ years > of not having a substantial volume of record. To be able to talk > with individuals throughout the US and strike up correspondences > with people I've never met in Australia, New Zealand, England, > Germany, Austria, Switzerland and so on and discuss notions of > "punctive and typographical metonymy" found within the book was a > joy. So was a review from a publishing hero of mine, Tony Frazier, > in Shearsman. Or another in the London Times. Or the Library > Journal. I spent a few years putting that collection together and > if someone wants an editor who actually thinks about, edits, and > questions the work, rather than just wanting it published by > "somebody," we are one of those places. An active editor is > important, who publishes it does matter. > > > > > > > > Be well > > > > David Baratier, Editor > > > > Pavement Saw Press > > 321 Empire Street > > Montpelier OH 43543 > > http://pavementsaw.org > > > > Subscribe to our e-mail listserv at > > http://pavementsaw.org/list/?p=subscribe&id=1 > > > > --------------------------------- > > Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with > Yahoo! Search. > > > > > > Be well > > David Baratier, Editor > > Pavement Saw Press > 321 Empire Street > Montpelier OH 43543 > http://pavementsaw.org > > Subscribe to our e-mail listserv at > http://pavementsaw.org/list/?p=subscribe&id=1 > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage. > From jforjames Mon Jan 21 11:30:17 2008 From: jforjames (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 11:30:17 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Canadian long poem Message-ID: <8CA2A620A7E6E35-FBC-2A3@webmail-de18.sysops.aol.com> http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/LAC.20080119.BKGEDD19/TPStory/Entertainment A bridge too frail GEORGE MURRAY January 19, 2008 FALSEWORK By Gary Geddes Goose Lane, 128 pages, $19.95 Canadian poetry has had an extended love affair with the long or book-length sequence. As a genre, the long poem thrives as either a creature of exhaustion, patiently exploring every dark corner of a major subject (such as in recent G-G nominee Rob Winger's Muybridge's Horse), or as sprawling epic, forming an atmospheric narrative by pulling down ideas and images like radio signals from the ionosphere of human existence (as in Louis Dudek's Atlantis). In between are a multitude of forms and variations that grow each year as more poets are smitten by the genre. Gary Geddes is one of the most easily identifiable advocates of the long poem (Terracotta Army, Hong Kong Poems) and of poetry in Canada, having edited the landmark classroom anthologies 20th Century Poetry and Poetics and 15 Canadian Poets (x2 and x3, no less) over the last few decades. Now Geddes, himself an award-winning poet, brings us Falsework, his latest attempt at exploring the long poem tradition that has given us great works such as Michael Ondaatje's The Collected Works of Billy the Kid, bp Nichol's The Martyrology and George Elliott Clarke's Execution Poems. ________________________________________________________________________ More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://webmail.aol.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames Mon Jan 21 11:32:01 2008 From: jforjames (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 11:32:01 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] WorldPo: Nigeria's Okigbo Message-ID: <8CA2A624903FB5C-FBC-2C6@webmail-de18.sysops.aol.com> http://allafrica.com/stories/200801210521.html Nigeria: Constructing the Christopher Okigbo Canon ? Vanguard (Lagos) 20 January 2008 Posted to the web 21 January 2008 Austine Akpuda Lagos This is the fourth instalment of this interesting submission. The third instalment was published in our last edition. THE judgment of time identifies and outlines the basis for asserting an indebtedness to Okigbo and his poetry. By restricting himself to specific elements of the Okigbo style, Otiono makes a significant prefatory remark about how Okigbo remains the favourite of contemporary Nigerian poets. ? Otiono is thus unlike Ken Goodwin who even when he concedes Okigbo's "immense personal influence of younger writers such as Okogbule Wonodi and POL Ndu," nonetheless proclaims that "Okigbo is not necessarily a good model for poetry." ________________________________________________________________________ More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://webmail.aol.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman Mon Jan 21 11:32:53 2008 From: bobgrumman (Bob Grumman) Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 11:32:53 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Recommending Poetry Presses? In-Reply-To: <47945521.2020303@myuw.net> References: <921282.35994.qm@web45615.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <47945521.2020303@myuw.net> Message-ID: <4794C935.4040004@nut-n-but.net> Jason Quackenbush wrote: > Who am I? I'm the guy you were responding to on the New Poetry list. For what it's worth, I was wondering who you were, too--didn't connect the initials, and there are so many participants in the various lists I'm in, I have trouble keeping everyone straight, and like to be able to. Ol' jfq wasn't signing some of his posts but they were intriguing so I wanted to know who he was, that's all. Ditto probably for David. Do try always to assume the best of your friends on the net! Then you'll be as admired, perhaps, as I am! --Bob G. From anny.ballardini Mon Jan 21 12:01:54 2008 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 18:01:54 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Robert Frost on the Writer's Almanac Message-ID: <001a01c85c4f$539562d0$46df3052@ANNY> Poem: "Birches" by Robert Frost, Public domain.(buy now) Birches When I see birches bend to left and right Across the lines of straighter darker trees, I like to think some boy's been swinging them. But swinging doesn't bend them down to stay As ice storms do. Often you must have seen them Loaded with ice a sunny winter morning After a rain. They click upon themselves As the breeze rises, and turn many-colored As the stir cracks and crazes their enamel. Soon the sun's warmth makes them shed crystal shells Shattering and avalanching on the snow crust- Such heaps of broken glass to sweep away You'd think the inner dome of heaven had fallen. They are dragged to the withered bracken by the load, And they seem not to break; though once they are bowed So low for long, they never right themselves: You may see their trunks arching in the woods Years afterwards, trailing their leaves on the ground Like girls on hands and knees that throw their hair Before them over their heads to dry in the sun. But I was going to say when Truth broke in With all her matter of fact about the ice storm I should prefer to have some boy bend them As he went out and in to fetch the cows- Some boy too far from the town to learn baseball, Whose only play was what he found himself, Summer or winter, and could play alone. One by one he subdued his father's trees By riding them down over and over again Until he took the stiffness out of them, And not one but hung limp, not one was left For him to conquer. He learned all there was To learn about not launching out too soon And so not carrying the tree away Clear to the ground. He always kept his poise To the top branches, climbing carefully With the same pains you use to fill a cup Up to the brim, and even above the brim. Then he flung outward, feet first, with a swish, Kicking his way down through the air to the ground. So was I once myself a swinger of birches. And so I dream of going back to be. It's when I'm weary of considerations, And life is too much like a pathless wood Where your face burns and tickles with the cobwebs Broken across it, and one eye is weeping >From a twig's having lashed across it open. I'd like to get away from earth awhile And then come back to it and begin over. May no fate willfully misunderstand me And half grant what I wish and snatch me away Not to return. Earth's the right place for love: I don't know where it's likely to go better. I'd like to go by climbing a birch tree, And climb black branches up a snow-white trunk Toward heaven, till the tree could bear no more, But dipped its top and set me down again. That would be good both going and coming back. One could do worse than be a swinger of birches. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From editor Mon Jan 21 12:12:09 2008 From: editor (David Baratier) Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 09:12:09 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Recommending Poetry Presses? In-Reply-To: <47945521.2020303@myuw.net> Message-ID: <538385.17324.qm@web45607.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> I agree "a little politesse goes a long way." You might want to consider using a signature. All of your e-mails so far (except for this one) have arrived on the list, and been backchanneled without anyway of knowing who sent it. I suppose I am old fashioned but when I have a discussion, and am not simply answering a simple question, I would at least like to know who I am addressing. To answer your question, there is a world of difference between self publishing and us printing the book. At least 450 copies in the first year on titles. More if real high profile reviews occur. More if they are willing to read and I set up a tour for them. More if they place in the top bracket for a national prize I nominate them for. More profit, as the author can buy the copies for 1/2 off which is substantially more profit per book than they would recieve self publishing. Most of places seem to give a person a little over $2 for selling a book on cafe press for a $14 title, we would give $7, plus 10% of the press run for free. Also that the book has 1000 copies plus overage printed all of which will find the light of day at some point. I see no comparison. Jason Quackenbush wrote: Who am I? I'm the guy you were responding to on the New Poetry list. For some reason, the response went straight to your email rather than to the list. Do you usually respond that way to emails from people you don't recognize? It's not a problem except that it came off as really rude until I realized that the mail had been sent off list and that you hadn't recognized my email address and you weren't asking "who are you"? as in "why should I give a damn what you think?" so much as "why are you sending me email?" One email writer to another, given the limitations of electronic communications, a little politesse goes a long way. And the crapshoot you is what i'm talking about. No press can guarantee that they're going to get their authors reviewed in Poetry or the Times Book Review or even teh Village Voice or the Stranger. That's what I was talking about when I said "not everybody you publish gets the kind of coverage you're talking about." For those people, what's the difference between having the book out on a press versus hustling it themselves? I really don't know is why i'm asking. I do know people who've self published and sold in the kinds of numbers you're talking about with your worst selling titles, although they tend to be touring performance poets. Which I offer as evidence for my point that the worth of a book doesn't have to do with who publishes it. The larger the publisher, the more exposure you're going to get, true. But the larger the publisher the harder it is to get their attention as well. Again, six and a half dozen of the other. What does someone with a really good book that's well put together and is willing to work hard to get people to see it get from going with a small publisher other than a smaller share of the profits (if any) and someone else to take on the printing costs? David Baratier wrote: > First, who are you? > > Our worst selling books clear 500 in the first year, even for authors > who have no interest in promoting the book. How well they are reviewed > is a crapshoot, sometimes they take off, like Rachel M. Simon's first > book which was reviewed in Publisher's Weekly and Poetry plus a bunch > of others. > > Perchik was friends with Paul Blackburn starting in the 40's and > started the reading series with him that became The (St. Marks) Poetry > Project, that is the Olson connection. I think Kennedy was through > Robert (?) Peterson who reviewed one of his books unexpectedly and > interested him in Si's work. It could have been through David Ignatow > also, I forget. Yale would have those files. The book is $30 but it is > also 612 pages. > > */jfq at myuw.net/* wrote: > > It's a good point you make David, and I'm willing to modify my > view to it can matter but it doesn't have to. But either way it's > hard to get that attention and for a lot of people who have the > will to do the work themselves it's six and a half dozen of the > other which route you take. A press like yours does a lot of good > work for your authors. But not everybody you publish gets the kind > of coverage you're talking about, do they? Looking at the Pavement > Saw page for Perchik, it strikes me that there are few people in > the world whose work would garner endorsements from both Charles > Olson (what's the provenance of that by the way? It looks like > it's excerpted from a larger statement.) and XJ Kennedy. > > Anyway, you're definitely doing good work, because now I'm > intrigued and will buy it whereas it had been off my radar before. > Still, 30 bucks for a perfect bound trade paperback? I'm glad it's > going to a good cause. > > > > On Sat, 19 Jan 2008, David Baratier wrote: > > > jfq at myuw.net wrote: It's what one does with the book and about > the book, and the quality of the work in the book that makes it > worthwhile or not. Not who publishes it. > > > > > > ---------------------------- > > I disagree, I do not think an author, a "true poet," should find > it necessary to focus on how to sell themselves. An author should > not have to be concerned about what they do "with the book and > about the book" after it appears. Perchik is a good example of a > person who has no interest in reading, conducting workshops or > anything else of that sort to promote his collections. His > interest is in writing poems. > > > > My interest was in finding an audience for him after 50+ years > of not having a substantial volume of record. To be able to talk > with individuals throughout the US and strike up correspondences > with people I've never met in Australia, New Zealand, England, > Germany, Austria, Switzerland and so on and discuss notions of > "punctive and typographical metonymy" found within the book was a > joy. So was a review from a publishing hero of mine, Tony Frazier, > in Shearsman. Or another in the London Times. Or the Library > Journal. I spent a few years putting that collection together and > if someone wants an editor who actually thinks about, edits, and > questions the work, rather than just wanting it published by > "somebody," we are one of those places. An active editor is > important, who publishes it does matter. Be well David Baratier, Editor Pavement Saw Press 321 Empire Street Montpelier OH 43543 http://pavementsaw.org Subscribe to our e-mail listserv at http://pavementsaw.org/list/?p=subscribe&id=1 --------------------------------- Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jfq Mon Jan 21 12:31:15 2008 From: jfq (jfq at myuw.net) Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 09:31:15 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Recommending Poetry Presses? In-Reply-To: <4794C935.4040004@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: Ah but see, just being initials is part of why I'm so intriguing. Jason Quackenbush, well see, everybody knows who that guy is and he's really kind of dull. but jfq? that's just one letter away from a dead american icon. and an ubersexy one at that. yours in electronic anonymity, -Mr Jason Finkas Quackenbush, AA, BA, BMus On Mon, 21 Jan 2008, Bob Grumman wrote: > > > Jason Quackenbush wrote: >> Who am I? I'm the guy you were responding to on the New Poetry list. > > For what it's worth, I was wondering who you were, too--didn't connect the > initials, and there are so many participants in the various lists I'm in, I > have trouble keeping everyone straight, and like to be able to. Ol' jfq wasn't > signing some of his posts but they were intriguing so I wanted to know who he > was, that's all. Ditto probably for David. > > Do try always to assume the best of your friends on the net! Then you'll be as > admired, perhaps, as I am! > > --Bob G. > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > From halvard Mon Jan 21 12:54:27 2008 From: halvard (Halvard Johnson) Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 11:54:27 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Recommending Poetry Presses? In-Reply-To: <8CA29D2A7A460CE-1528-FFC@webmail-da10.sysops.aol.com> References: <479234B3.7020807@nut-n-but.net> <7A388E5E-2A56-4FCA-936B-EE5F1329D940@mac.com> <479263EA.3060108@nut-n-but.net> <8CA29D2A7A460CE-1528-FFC@webmail-da10.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <81E6F3E5-6AC1-4F53-9BF8-EA262DECECD8@earthlink.net> Cummings' dad taught sociology at Harvard. Lots of money in that I've heard, but maybe it was old money. I heard him read once, back when I was an undergrad. Very dramatic! Dark auditorium, Cummings sitting, strangely costumed, at a table in a single spot, read . . . no intoned . . . his poems. Tenor range voice. Quite impressive. And memorable. Hal "I am no Einstein." --Albert Einstein Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html On Jan 20, 2008, at 5:23 PM, JforJames at aol.com wrote: > I seem to remember that Cummings, like Hart Crane, had familly > money. So he didn't really need to work, whatever the fortunes of > his poetry. > Finnegan > > -----Original Message----- > From: Bob Grumman > I'd add that some poets could make it their day job but enjoy having > another more munificent related one, like teaching. Frost, could > surely have lived off his earnings as a poet had he wanted to. Seems > to me Cummings did. If not, I don't know what he did for a living. > > I wonder, too, if teaching poetry should count as a day job for poets. > > --Bob G. > > > More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail! > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From millb Mon Jan 21 13:03:18 2008 From: millb (millb at aol.com) Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 13:03:18 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Recommending Poetry Presses? In-Reply-To: <81E6F3E5-6AC1-4F53-9BF8-EA262DECECD8@earthlink.net> References: <479234B3.7020807@nut-n-but.net> <7A388E5E-2A56-4FCA-936B-EE5F1329D940@mac.com> <479263EA.3060108@nut-n-but.net> <8CA29D2A7A460CE-1528-FFC@webmail-da10.sysops.aol.com> <81E6F3E5-6AC1-4F53-9BF8-EA262DECECD8@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <8CA2A6F099A78F1-10A4-2595@webmail-dd13.sysops.aol.com> I think ANY new poetry book, self-published or not needs support?from the writer.? Even the best of presses cannot market or sell books without some participation from the author of the book (this is especially true of first books and unknown writers). One of my professors in grad school used to joke around about books sales, but, darn if he didn't read somewhere nearly every week!? And, at any time, his car was filled with books for sale.??If he went out for drinks with us and someone mentioned an interest, he'd run to his car and cut a deal on one of his books.? I think he travelled with copies of his books all the time. -----Original Message----- From: Halvard Johnson Bcc: millb at aol.com Sent: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 9:54 am Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Recommending Poetry Presses? Cummings' dad taught sociology at Harvard. Lots of money in that I've heard, but maybe it was old money. I heard him read once, back when I was an undergrad. Very dramatic! Dark auditorium, Cummings sitting, strangely costumed, at a table in a single spot, read . . . no intoned . . . his poems. Tenor range voice. Quite impressive. And memorable. Hal "I am no Einstein." --Albert Einstein Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html http://entropyandme.blogspot.com? http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html On Jan 20, 2008, at 5:23 PM, JforJames at aol.com wrote: I seem to remember that Cummings, like Hart Crane, had familly money. So he didn't really need to work, whatever the fortunes of his poetry. Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: Bob Grumman I'd add that some poets could make it their day job but enjoy having another more munificent related one, like teaching. Frost, could surely have lived off his earnings as a poet had he wanted to. Seems to me Cummings did. If not, I don't know what he did for a living.? ? I wonder, too, if teaching poetry should count as a day job for poets.? ? --Bob G.? ? More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail! _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry = _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry ________________________________________________________________________ More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://webmail.aol.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From amyhappens Mon Jan 21 13:03:37 2008 From: amyhappens (amy king) Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 10:03:37 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] This Friday -- STOBB, LIN, and YOUNG In-Reply-To: <81E6F3E5-6AC1-4F53-9BF8-EA262DECECD8@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <640711.95062.qm@web83305.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> MiPOesias presents ~~ STOBB ~~ LIN ~~ YOUNG Friday, January 25th @ 7:00 p.m. Stain Bar ??? Williamsburg, Brooklyn ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ WILLIAM STOBB is the author of Nervous Systems, a 2006 National Poetry Series selection and For Better Night Vision, a limited edition chapbook produced by the Black Rock Press at the University of Nevada. His poems have appeared in American Poetry Review, Colorado Review, American Literary Review, Denver Quarterly, and online at MiPOesias, Three Candles, Cricket Online Review, and nthposition. Stobb hosts the monthly audio column on poetry and poetics, "Hard to Say," on miporadio. With David Krump, he co-curates the reading series at the Pump House Regional Arts Center in La Crosse, Wisconsin. Stobb is Associate Professor of English at Viterbo University. 1. http://www.mipoesias.com/Poetry/stobb_william_e.html 2. http://www.mipoesias.com/2007/stobb_william.htm TAO LIN is the author a poetry-collection, you are a little bit happier than i am (Action Books, 2006), a story-collection, Bed (Melville House, 2007), and a novel, Eeeee Eee Eeee (Melville House, 2007). Melville House is publishing his second poetry-collection, Cognitive-Behavioral Therapy, in 2008. His web site is called Reader of Depressing Books. 1. http://www.mipoesias.com/Poetry/lin_tao.html 2. http://www.mipoesias.com/2007/lin_tao.htm MIKE YOUNG is the co-editor of NO?? Journal, a free literary/political magazine. His work has or will appear in MiPOesias, Backwards City Review, realpoetik, Juked, elimae, BlazeVOX, 3:AM and elsewhere. A chapbook of his work is forthcoming from Transmission Press. He sleeps most of the time in Massachusetts. http://www.mipoesias.com/2007/young_mike.htm ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ STAIN BAR 766 Grand Street Brooklyn , NY 11211 (L train to Grand Street Stop, walk 1 block west) 718/387-7840 http://www.stainbar.com/ Hope you'll stop by! Amy King http://www.mipoesias.com http://miporeadingseries2007.blogspot.com/2007/09/january-2008.html --------------------------------- Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From amparker Mon Jan 21 13:31:33 2008 From: amparker (Parker, Alan Michael) Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 13:31:33 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] POV and You Message-ID: Hi, folks. Joyeaux. I'm wondering if y'all see any kind of recent trend in the use of the first-person plural in poems? Might something be afoot? And if so, any guesses as to why/what/wherefor/who-the-heck? Seems to me I've seen that POV a fair bit, of late, and not just in political poetry. Cheers. AMP Alan Michael Parker From blacksox Mon Jan 21 16:17:35 2008 From: blacksox (blacksox at att.net) Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 21:17:35 +0000 Subject: [New-Poetry] Recommending poetry presses and beyond Message-ID: <012120082117.27844.47950BEF0003F20E00006CC422216125569B0A02D29B9B0EBF98019C050C0E040D@att.net> I agree with David that the press does matter. General readership and curiosity will sell a certain amount of books. Without the poet going out and promoting the book, you will reach a saturation point in a relatively short amount of time. Another question might be: Is it necessary to tour to make a poetry book successful? Being a member of an artrock band, the only way we sold discs is to barrage a city with our music. Appearances, posters, and stores, then move on to the next town and do it again. To make your work sell, you better network the daylights out of it. Quality matters, but I am sure you have all read books raved about by other poets, that force you to question the entire process. Does marketing diminish quality of the work? Absolutely not. But, it doesn't add to it either/. Russ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames Mon Jan 21 16:30:45 2008 From: jforjames (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 16:30:45 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Snowbird Poets Message-ID: <8CA2A8C0417B079-2CC-1032@WEBMAIL-DG08.sysops.aol.com> http://www.palmbeachpoetryfestival.org/upcoming/faculty#morl Palm Beach Poetry Festival starts today. ________________________________________________________________________ More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://webmail.aol.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames Mon Jan 21 17:03:28 2008 From: jforjames (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 17:03:28 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] cummings and goings In-Reply-To: <81E6F3E5-6AC1-4F53-9BF8-EA262DECECD8@earthlink.net> References: <479234B3.7020807@nut-n-but.net> <7A388E5E-2A56-4FCA-936B-EE5F1329D940@mac.com> <479263EA.3060108@nut-n-but.net> <8CA29D2A7A460CE-1528-FFC@webmail-da10.sysops.aol.com> <81E6F3E5-6AC1-4F53-9BF8-EA262DECECD8@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <8CA2A909685ADB7-1600-2A5@FWM-M17.sysops.aol.com> "Money was a never-ending preoccupation, and there rarely was enough of it. His "extreme self-centeredness" led, not surprisingly, to a powerful sense of entitlement, so he took as a matter of course the support he received from his parents, his wives (there were three of them) and various benefactors, some of whom were astonishingly generous." This from a review of an EE Cummings biography...no deep pockets in the family but was blessed by generous parents, spouses?and friends. -----Original Message----- From: Halvard Johnson Bcc: jforjames at aol.com Sent: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 12:54 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Recommending Poetry Presses? Cummings' dad taught sociology at Harvard. Lots of money in that I've heard, but maybe it was old money. I heard him read once, back when I was an undergrad. Very dramatic! Dark auditorium, Cummings sitting, strangely costumed, at a table in a single spot, read . . . no intoned . . . his poems. Tenor range voice. Quite impressive. And memorable. Hal "I am no Einstein." --Albert Einstein Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html http://entropyandme.blogspot.com? http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html On Jan 20, 2008, at 5:23 PM, JforJames at aol.com wrote: I seem to remember that Cummings, like Hart Crane, had familly money. So he didn't really need to work, whatever the fortunes of his poetry. Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: Bob Grumman I'd add that some poets could make it their day job but enjoy having another more munificent related one, like teaching. Frost, could surely have lived off his earnings as a poet had he wanted to. Seems to me Cummings did. If not, I don't know what he did for a living.? ? I wonder, too, if teaching poetry should count as a day job for poets.? ? --Bob G.? ? More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail! _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry = _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry ________________________________________________________________________ More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://webmail.aol.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From millb Mon Jan 21 17:14:16 2008 From: millb (millb at aol.com) Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 17:14:16 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Recommending poetry presses and beyond In-Reply-To: <012120082117.27844.47950BEF0003F20E00006CC422216125569B0A02D29B9B0EBF98019C050C0E040D@att.net> References: <012120082117.27844.47950BEF0003F20E00006CC422216125569B0A02D29B9B0EBF98019C050C0E040D@att.net> Message-ID: <8CA2A92189F9912-13B8-3C18@FWM-M09.sysops.aol.com> There are probably those who will disagree, but, I have often thought that, given equal work, if I were a publisher, I would want to know?whether a poet is willing to help market his or her book. A writer with a web presence and a following of readers would certainly be a better bet than someone who was not willing to do any promotion. I would think this fact might make a big difference to publishers (it certainly does in other industries). Like I said, all things equal, say there was a tie for one of these competitions that no one seems to win!? If you were the publisher, I mean, beyond selecting the best manuscript you could find, wouldn't you want to see which entrants were powerful public readers with an existing following? Not quite like a publishing coop, but, I often wonder why publishers don't at least ask about writers' willingness to market and or tour, etc. -----Original Message----- From: blacksox at att.net To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 1:17 pm Subject: [New-Poetry] Recommending poetry presses and beyond I agree with David that the press does matter. General readership and curiosity will sell a certain amount of books. Without the poet going out and promoting the book, you will reach a saturation point in a relatively short amount of time. ? Another question might be: Is it necessary to tour to make a poetry book successful? Being a member of an artrock band, the only way we sold discs is to barrage a city with our music. Appearances, posters, and stores, then move on to the next town and do it again. To make your work sell, you better network the daylights out of it. Quality matters, but I am sure you have all read books raved about by other poets, that?force you to question the entire process. Does marketing?diminish quality of?the work? Absolutely not. But,?it doesn't add to it either/.? ? Russ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry ________________________________________________________________________ More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://webmail.aol.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman Mon Jan 21 18:01:31 2008 From: bobgrumman (Bob Grumman) Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 18:01:31 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Recommending poetry presses and beyond In-Reply-To: <8CA2A92189F9912-13B8-3C18@FWM-M09.sysops.aol.com> References: <012120082117.27844.47950BEF0003F20E00006CC422216125569B0A02D29B9B0EBF98019C050C0E040D@att.net> <8CA2A92189F9912-13B8-3C18@FWM-M09.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <4795244B.2000400@nut-n-but.net> millb at aol.com wrote: > There are probably those who will disagree, but, I have often thought > that, given equal work, if I were a publisher, I would want to > know whether a poet is willing to help market his or her book. > > A writer with a web presence and a following of readers would > certainly be a better bet than someone who was not willing to do any > promotion. > > I would think this fact might make a big difference to publishers (it > certainly does in other industries). > > Like I said, all things equal, say there was a tie for one of these > competitions that no one seems to win! If you were the publisher, I > mean, beyond selecting the best manuscript you could find, wouldn't > you want to see which entrants were powerful public readers with an > existing following? > > Not quite like a publishing coop, but, I often wonder why publishers > don't at least ask about writers' willingness to market and or tour, etc. > > > A problem here is that the best poets tend to be lousy at marketing, and not to like it very much. At any rate, that's my impression. But I do believe getting one's art into one's culture is as much a part of being an artist as making art--a poet's inability to acquire readers because of lack of marketing skills (a lack I certainly have in spades) is as much a vocational defect as inability to acquire readers because of lack of writing skills. --Bob G. From anny.ballardini Mon Jan 21 18:10:21 2008 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2008 00:10:21 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Recommending poetry presses and beyond References: <012120082117.27844.47950BEF0003F20E00006CC422216125569B0A02D29B9B0EBF98019C050C0E040D@att.net><8CA2A92189F9912-13B8-3C18@FWM-M09.sysops.aol.com> <4795244B.2000400@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <002d01c85c82$cc0bfa20$46df3052@ANNY> Someone should write a simple booklet with 10-12 chapters big characters: how to convince myself that marketing is good for poetry anyone? I promise I will read it first thing in the morning and after my prayers in the evening :-) From: "Bob Grumman" Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2008 12:01 AM > > > millb at aol.com wrote: >> There are probably those who will disagree, but, I have often thought >> that, given equal work, if I were a publisher, I would want to >> know whether a poet is willing to help market his or her book. >> >> A writer with a web presence and a following of readers would >> certainly be a better bet than someone who was not willing to do any >> promotion. >> >> I would think this fact might make a big difference to publishers (it >> certainly does in other industries). >> >> Like I said, all things equal, say there was a tie for one of these >> competitions that no one seems to win! If you were the publisher, I >> mean, beyond selecting the best manuscript you could find, wouldn't >> you want to see which entrants were powerful public readers with an >> existing following? >> >> Not quite like a publishing coop, but, I often wonder why publishers >> don't at least ask about writers' willingness to market and or tour, etc. >> >> >> > A problem here is that the best poets tend to be lousy at marketing, and > not to like it very much. At any rate, that's my impression. But I do > believe getting one's art into one's culture is as much a part of being > an artist as making art--a poet's inability to acquire readers because > of lack of marketing skills (a lack I certainly have in spades) is as > much a vocational defect as inability to acquire readers because of lack > of writing skills. > > --Bob G. > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames Mon Jan 21 18:51:02 2008 From: jforjames (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 18:51:02 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] MLK Day poem Message-ID: <8CA2A9F9D6BACB3-176C-2634@MBLK-M20.sysops.aol.com> For Malcolm, A Year After Compose for Red a proper verse; Adhere to foot and strict iamb; Control the burst of angry words Or they might boil and break the dam. Or they might boil and overflow And drench me, drown me, drive me mad. So swear no oath, so shed no tear, And sing no song blue Baptist sad. Evoke no image, stir no flame, And spin no yarn across the air. Make empty anglo tea lace words? Make them dead white and dry bone bare. Compose a verse for Malcolm man, And make it rime and make it prim. The verse will die?as all men do? But not the memory of him! Death might come singing sweet like C, Or knocking like the old folks say, The moon and stars may pass away, But not the anger of that day. ? Etheridge Knight, The Essential Etheridge Knight, U. of Pittsburgh Press, 1 ________________________________________________________________________ More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://webmail.aol.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames Mon Jan 21 18:55:01 2008 From: jforjames (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 18:55:01 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] MLK Day poem In-Reply-To: <8CA2A9F9D6BACB3-176C-2634@MBLK-M20.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CA2A9F9D6BACB3-176C-2634@MBLK-M20.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <8CA2AA02B75E143-176C-265E@MBLK-M20.sysops.aol.com> Hmmm...there was a stanza break after 'dry bone bare' that didn't come thru. -----Original Message----- From: jforjames at aol.com To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 6:51 pm Subject: [New-Poetry] MLK Day poem For Malcolm, A Year After Compose for Red a proper verse; Adhere to foot and strict iamb; Control the burst of angry words Or they might boil and break the dam. Or they might boil and overflow And drench me, drown me, drive me mad. So swear no oath, so shed no tear, And sing no song blue Baptist sad. Evoke no image, stir no flame, And spin no yarn across the air. Make empty anglo tea lace words? Make them dead white and dry bone bare. Compose a verse for Malcolm man, And make it rime and make it prim. The verse will die?as all men do? But not the memory of him! Death might come singing sweet like C, Or knocking like the old folks say, The moon and stars may pass away, But not the anger of that day. ? Etheridge Knight, The Essential Etheridge Knight, U. of Pittsburgh Press, 1 More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail! _______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry ________________________________________________________________________ More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://webmail.aol.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cstroffo Mon Jan 21 18:56:03 2008 From: cstroffo (Chris Stroffolino) Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 15:56:03 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] MLK Day poem In-Reply-To: <8CA2A9F9D6BACB3-176C-2634@MBLK-M20.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CA2A9F9D6BACB3-176C-2634@MBLK-M20.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: thanks for this! the radio is now playing MLK's "If I had sneezed" speech... Chris On Jan 21, 2008, at 3:51 PM, jforjames at aol.com wrote: > For Malcolm, A Year After > > Compose for Red a proper verse; > Adhere to foot and strict iamb; > Control the burst of angry words > Or they might boil and break the dam. > Or they might boil and overflow > And drench me, drown me, drive me mad. > So swear no oath, so shed no tear, > And sing no song blue Baptist sad. > Evoke no image, stir no flame, > And spin no yarn across the air. > Make empty anglo tea lace words? > Make them dead white and dry bone bare. > Compose a verse for Malcolm man, > And make it rime and make it prim. > The verse will die?as all men do? > But not the memory of him! > Death might come singing sweet like C, > Or knocking like the old folks say, > The moon and stars may pass away, > But not the anger of that day. > > > Etheridge Knight, The Essential Etheridge Knight, U. of Pittsburgh > Press, 1 > More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail! > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames Mon Jan 21 19:02:46 2008 From: jforjames (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 19:02:46 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Robert Frost on the Writer's Almanac In-Reply-To: <001a01c85c4f$539562d0$46df3052@ANNY> References: <001a01c85c4f$539562d0$46df3052@ANNY> Message-ID: <8CA2AA1410A315B-176C-26CB@MBLK-M20.sysops.aol.com> >From Frost's "Birches"... So low for long, they never right themselves: You may see their trunks arching in the woods Years afterwards, trailing their leaves on the ground Like girls on hands and knees that throw their hair Before them over their heads to dry in the sun. -- I've always loved this strange yet apt simile. The length ?or extension of?follows 'like' is what makes it work. Finnegan ________________________________________________________________________ More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://webmail.aol.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman Mon Jan 21 20:02:05 2008 From: bobgrumman (Bob Grumman) Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 20:02:05 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Recommending poetry presses and beyond In-Reply-To: <002d01c85c82$cc0bfa20$46df3052@ANNY> References: <012120082117.27844.47950BEF0003F20E00006CC422216125569B0A02D29B9B0EBF98019C050C0E040D@att.net><8CA2A92189F9912-13B8- 3C18@FWM-M09.sysops.aol.com><4795244B.2000400@nut-n-but.net> <002d01c85c82$cc0bfa20$46df3052@ANNY> Message-ID: <4795408D.2030708@nut-n-but.net> Anny Ballardini wrote: > Someone should write a simple booklet with 10-12 chapters big characters: > /how to convince myself that marketing is good for poetry/ > > anyone? > I promise I will read it first thing in the morning and after my > prayers in the evening > :-) > Well, by marketing I mean simply getting one's work to people who will appreciate it (and not starve). It's unavoidable, I'm afraid. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From AlMaginnes Mon Jan 21 20:11:19 2008 From: AlMaginnes (AlMaginnes at aol.com) Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 20:11:19 EST Subject: [New-Poetry] Recommending poetry presses and beyond Message-ID: There are those few poets who are unbelievably good at marketing themselves. You can see them at any conference or gathering of writers. The only problem I really have with that kind of hustling--there than doing it would be personally embarrassing and take away from my already too small writing time--is that it so often seems effective. Else why do the same names show up over and over? **************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape. http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames Mon Jan 21 20:13:32 2008 From: jforjames (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 20:13:32 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Recommending poetry presses and beyond In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8CA2AAB23EC04DF-4D0-2252@WEBMAIL-DC01.sysops.aol.com> -----Original Message----- From: AlMaginnes at aol.com To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 8:11 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Recommending poetry presses and beyond There are those few?poets who are unbelievably good at marketing themselves. You can see them at any conference or gathering of writers. The only problem I really have with that kind of hustling--there than doing it would be personally embarrassing and take away from my already too small writing time--is that it so often seems effective. Else why do the same names show up over and over? Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape in the new year. _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry ________________________________________________________________________ More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://webmail.aol.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard Mon Jan 21 23:16:57 2008 From: halvard (Halvard Johnson) Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 22:16:57 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Miracles Sonnet Message-ID: <604035C6-3755-4850-859E-03E4961BEFA1@earthlink.net> Miracles Sonnet Frida Kahlo, after a long overland journey, arrives at a conclusion. Frida Kahlo dons a helmet and an asteroid belt and goes to a ball. Frida Kahlo appears to many, despite their rising cost, in corn tortillas. Frida Kahlo's success at Sotheby's surpasses all expectations. Frida Kahlo takes Diego to task for leaning much too far to the left. Frida Kahlo takes questions and answers prayers after press conference. Frida Kahlo expects nothing less than the best from her admirers. Frida Kahlo rents near side of moon for her newest exhibition. Frida Kahlo overtakes Mount Fuji as world's most famousest icon. Frida Kahlo replaces Virgin of Guadalupe as Mexico's most famous icon. Frida Kahlo chosen by Bush to replace Rice as US Secretary of State for remainder of term. Frida Kahlo arrested at MOMA for illegal entry. Frida Kahlo enters Guinness World Records as most popular saint's name. Frida Kahlo adopted as mantra by billions of Buddhists worldwide. Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Rsgwynn1 Mon Jan 21 23:36:34 2008 From: Rsgwynn1 (Rsgwynn1 at cs.com) Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 23:36:34 EST Subject: [New-Poetry] Miracles Sonnet Message-ID: In a message dated 1/21/2008 10:17:24 PM Central Standard Time, halvard at earthlink.net writes: > > Miracles Sonnet > > Frida Kahlo, after a long overland journey, arrives at a conclusion. > Frida Kahlo dons a helmet and an asteroid belt and goes to a ball. > Frida Kahlo appears to many, despite their rising cost, in corn tortillas. > > Frida Kahlo's success at Sotheby's surpasses all expectations. > Frida Kahlo takes Diego to task for leaning much too far to the left. > Frida Kahlo takes questions and answers prayers after press conference. > > Frida Kahlo expects nothing less than the best from her admirers. > Frida Kahlo rents near side of moon for her newest exhibition. > Frida Kahlo overtakes Mount Fuji as world's most famousest icon. > > Frida Kahlo replaces Virgin of Guadalupe as Mexico's most famous icon. > Frida Kahlo chosen by Bush to replace Rice as US Secretary of State > for remainder of term. Frida Kahlo arrested at MOMA for illegal entry. > > Frida Kahlo enters Guinness World Records as most popular saint's name. > Frida Kahlo adopted as mantra by billions of Buddhists worldwide. > > Frida Kahlo painted too many pictures of herself but who doesn't. Frida Kahlo should have used a dipilatory on that mustache but who doesn't. Frida Kahlo never went to Rockefeller Center with a pickaxe she should have. Frida Kahlo was to be played in a film by Madonna why not but well why. Frida Kahlo had bad taste in asshole boyfriends but who hasn't. Frida Kahlo if she had any sensibiltiy would snuff all those candles. Frida Kahlo is boring but don't blame her for that she was home-bound. Frida Kahlo is the Georgia O'Keeffe of the post-feminist set in ob/gyns' offices. Frida Kahlo should have been Hawaiian she would have been cool in a lei. Frida Kahlo should have been Polish that sounds like her surname. Frida Kahlo was probably a dish and she probably knew it so what. Frida Kahlo would have been pleased that Salma Hayek played her in a movie. Frida Kahlo deserves better than what we have made of her a silly icon. Frida Kahlo was nicer than you might think if you think at all but you don't. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cervantes.james Tue Jan 22 09:22:36 2008 From: cervantes.james (James Cervantes) Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2008 07:22:36 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Miracles Sonnet In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <648208b60801220622o2f037be7p8902deab21c317af@mail.gmail.com> On 1/21/08, Rsgwynn1 at cs.com wrote: > In a message dated 1/21/2008 10:17:24 PM Central Standard Time, > halvard at earthlink.net writes: > > > Miracles Sonnet > > Frida Kahlo, after a long overland journey, arrives at a conclusion. > Frida Kahlo dons a helmet and an asteroid belt and goes to a ball. > Frida Kahlo appears to many, despite their rising cost, in corn tortillas. > > Frida Kahlo's success at Sotheby's surpasses all expectations. > Frida Kahlo takes Diego to task for leaning much too far to the left. > Frida Kahlo takes questions and answers prayers after press conference. > > Frida Kahlo expects nothing less than the best from her admirers. > Frida Kahlo rents near side of moon for her newest exhibition. > Frida Kahlo overtakes Mount Fuji as world's most famousest icon. > > Frida Kahlo replaces Virgin of Guadalupe as Mexico's most famous icon. > Frida Kahlo chosen by Bush to replace Rice as US Secretary of State > for remainder of term. Frida Kahlo arrested at MOMA for illegal entry. > > Frida Kahlo enters Guinness World Records as most popular saint's name. > Frida Kahlo adopted as mantra by billions of Buddhists worldwide. > > > Frida Kahlo painted too many pictures of herself but who doesn't. > Frida Kahlo should have used a dipilatory on that mustache but who doesn't. > Frida Kahlo never went to Rockefeller Center with a pickaxe she should > have. > > Frida Kahlo was to be played in a film by Madonna why not but well why. > Frida Kahlo had bad taste in asshole boyfriends but who hasn't. > Frida Kahlo if she had any sensibiltiy would snuff all those candles. > > Frida Kahlo is boring but don't blame her for that she was home-bound. > Frida Kahlo is the Georgia O'Keeffe of the post-feminist set in ob/gyns' > offices. > Frida Kahlo should have been Hawaiian she would have been cool in a lei. > > Frida Kahlo should have been Polish that sounds like her surname. > Frida Kahlo was probably a dish and she probably knew it so what. > Frida Kahlo would have been pleased that Salma Hayek played her in a movie. > > Frida Kahlo deserves better than what we have made of her a silly icon. > Frida Kahlo was nicer than you might think if you think at all but you > don't. > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > Frida Kahlo is a two syllable answer to a long question. Frida Kahlo is confused with Karo syrup by those who don't think. Frida Kahlo has no faults when screen printed on shopping bags. Frida Kahlo IS the many Salma Hayeks seen in Mexico. Frida Kahlo was one of Diego's trophy wives. Frida Kahlo would never have owned a cell phone. Frida Kahlo was left out of Nighthawks at the Diner. Frida Kahlo is a tattoo within a frame, is a shadowbox. Frida Kahlo probably wore an ankle bracelet. Frida Kahlo has a fruit diet named after her. Frida Kahlo is readily available and within budget. - Jim From Rsgwynn1 Tue Jan 22 09:33:05 2008 From: Rsgwynn1 (Rsgwynn1 at cs.com) Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2008 09:33:05 EST Subject: [New-Poetry] Miracles Sonnet Message-ID: In a message dated 1/22/2008 8:23:06 AM Central Standard Time, cervantes.james at gmail.com writes: > On 1/21/08, Rsgwynn1 at cs.com wrote: > >In a message dated 1/21/2008 10:17:24 PM Central Standard Time, > >halvard at earthlink.net writes: > > > > > > Miracles Sonnet > > > > Frida Kahlo, after a long overland journey, arrives at a conclusion. > > Frida Kahlo dons a helmet and an asteroid belt and goes to a ball. > > Frida Kahlo appears to many, despite their rising cost, in corn > tortillas. > > > > Frida Kahlo's success at Sotheby's surpasses all expectations. > > Frida Kahlo takes Diego to task for leaning much too far to the left. > > Frida Kahlo takes questions and answers prayers after press conference. > > > > Frida Kahlo expects nothing less than the best from her admirers. > > Frida Kahlo rents near side of moon for her newest exhibition. > > Frida Kahlo overtakes Mount Fuji as world's most famousest icon. > > > > Frida Kahlo replaces Virgin of Guadalupe as Mexico's most famous icon. > > Frida Kahlo chosen by Bush to replace Rice as US Secretary of State > > for remainder of term. Frida Kahlo arrested at MOMA for illegal entry. > > > > Frida Kahlo enters Guinness World Records as most popular saint's name. > > Frida Kahlo adopted as mantra by billions of Buddhists worldwide. > > > > > > Frida Kahlo painted too many pictures of herself but who doesn't. > > Frida Kahlo should have used a dipilatory on that mustache but who > doesn't. > > Frida Kahlo never went to Rockefeller Center with a pickaxe she should > >have. > > > > Frida Kahlo was to be played in a film by Madonna why not but well why. > > Frida Kahlo had bad taste in asshole boyfriends but who hasn't. > > Frida Kahlo if she had any sensibiltiy would snuff all those candles. > > > > Frida Kahlo is boring but don't blame her for that she was home-bound. > > Frida Kahlo is the Georgia O'Keeffe of the post-feminist set in ob/gyns' > >offices. > > Frida Kahlo should have been Hawaiian she would have been cool in a lei. > > > > Frida Kahlo should have been Polish that sounds like her surname. > > Frida Kahlo was probably a dish and she probably knew it so what. > > Frida Kahlo would have been pleased that Salma Hayek played her in a > movie. > > > > Frida Kahlo deserves better than what we have made of her a silly icon. > > Frida Kahlo was nicer than you might think if you think at all but you > >don't. > >_______________________________________________ > >New-Poetry mailing list > >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > > Frida Kahlo is a two syllable answer to a long question. > Frida Kahlo is confused with Karo syrup by those who don't think. > Frida Kahlo has no faults when screen printed on shopping bags. > > Frida Kahlo IS the many Salma Hayeks seen in Mexico. > Frida Kahlo was one of Diego's trophy wives. > Frida Kahlo would never have owned a cell phone. > > Frida Kahlo was left out of Nighthawks at the Diner. > Frida Kahlo is a tattoo within a frame, is a shadowbox. > Frida Kahlo probably wore an ankle bracelet. > > Frida Kahlo has a fruit diet named after her. > Frida Kahlo is readily available and within budget. > > - Jim > ____________________________________________ Curtal sonnet, J.C.? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cervantes.james Tue Jan 22 10:25:19 2008 From: cervantes.james (James Cervantes) Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2008 08:25:19 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Miracles Sonnet In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <648208b60801220725j29271c94n91c4f8547bd21ce6@mail.gmail.com> Close, huh? More accurately: one tires of riffing on Frida. - Jim On 1/22/08, Rsgwynn1 at cs.com wrote: > In a message dated 1/22/2008 8:23:06 AM Central Standard Time, > cervantes.james at gmail.com writes: > > On 1/21/08, Rsgwynn1 at cs.com wrote: > >In a message dated 1/21/2008 10:17:24 PM Central Standard Time, > >halvard at earthlink.net writes: > > > > > > Miracles Sonnet > > > > Frida Kahlo, after a long overland journey, arrives at a conclusion. > > Frida Kahlo dons a helmet and an asteroid belt and goes to a ball. > > Frida Kahlo appears to many, despite their rising cost, in corn > tortillas. > > > > Frida Kahlo's success at Sotheby's surpasses all expectations. > > Frida Kahlo takes Diego to task for leaning much too far to the left. > > Frida Kahlo takes questions and answers prayers after press conference. > > > > Frida Kahlo expects nothing less than the best from her admirers. > > Frida Kahlo rents near side of moon for her newest exhibition. > > Frida Kahlo overtakes Mount Fuji as world's most famousest icon. > > > > Frida Kahlo replaces Virgin of Guadalupe as Mexico's most famous icon. > > Frida Kahlo chosen by Bush to replace Rice as US Secretary of State > > for remainder of term. Frida Kahlo arrested at MOMA for illegal entry. > > > > Frida Kahlo enters Guinness World Records as most popular saint's name. > > Frida Kahlo adopted as mantra by billions of Buddhists worldwide. > > > > > > Frida Kahlo painted too many pictures of herself but who doesn't. > > Frida Kahlo should have used a dipilatory on that mustache but who > doesn't. > > Frida Kahlo never went to Rockefeller Center with a pickaxe she should > >have. > > > > Frida Kahlo was to be played in a film by Madonna why not but well why. > > Frida Kahlo had bad taste in asshole boyfriends but who hasn't. > > Frida Kahlo if she had any sensibiltiy would snuff all those candles. > > > > Frida Kahlo is boring but don't blame her for that she was home-bound. > > Frida Kahlo is the Georgia O'Keeffe of the post-feminist set in ob/gyns' > >offices. > > Frida Kahlo should have been Hawaiian she would have been cool in a lei. > > > > Frida Kahlo should have been Polish that sounds like her surname. > > Frida Kahlo was probably a dish and she probably knew it so what. > > Frida Kahlo would have been pleased that Salma Hayek played her in a > movie. > > > > Frida Kahlo deserves better than what we have made of her a silly icon. > > Frida Kahlo was nicer than you might think if you think at all but you > >don't. > >_______________________________________________ > >New-Poetry mailing list > >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > > Frida Kahlo is a two syllable answer to a long question. > Frida Kahlo is confused with Karo syrup by those who don't think. > Frida Kahlo has no faults when screen printed on shopping bags. > > Frida Kahlo IS the many Salma Hayeks seen in Mexico. > Frida Kahlo was one of Diego's trophy wives. > Frida Kahlo would never have owned a cell phone. > > Frida Kahlo was left out of Nighthawks at the Diner. > Frida Kahlo is a tattoo within a frame, is a shadowbox. > Frida Kahlo probably wore an ankle bracelet. > > Frida Kahlo has a fruit diet named after her. > Frida Kahlo is readily available and within budget. > > - Jim > ____________________________________________ > > Curtal sonnet, J.C.? > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~ Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org ~ http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning ~ http://www.fieralingue.it/documenti/mr_bondo.pdf ~ http://www.poetserv.org/jvc/home/index.html ~ http://home.earthlink.net/~jvcervantes/ ~ http://www.flickr.com/photos/12364573 at N08/ From jforjames Tue Jan 22 11:03:54 2008 From: jforjames (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2008 11:03:54 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Recommending poetry presses and beyond In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8CA2B2785F03757-2A4-3FBB@webmail-da15.sysops.aol.com> Sorry about the blank message I sent last nite... Walt Whitman was the great self-promoter poet of the 19th Century. (Of course the poetry was pretty good too.)?In the end his fame was?equaled by Emily Dickinson the great shrinking violet poet of 19th Century. (Her poetry was out of synch with the times as Whitman's was. I wouldn't recommend her 'course of inaction'?as a model for getting famous.) Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: AlMaginnes at aol.com To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 8:11 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Recommending poetry presses and beyond There are those few?poets who are unbelievably good at marketing themselves. You can see them at any conference or gathering of writers. The only problem I really have with that kind of hustling--there than doing it would be personally embarrassing and take away from my already too small writing time--is that it so often seems effective. Else why do the same names show up over and over? Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape in the new year. _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry ________________________________________________________________________ More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://webmail.aol.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From skip Tue Jan 22 11:35:40 2008 From: skip (Skip Fox) Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2008 10:35:40 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Recommending poetry presses and beyond In-Reply-To: <012120082117.27844.47950BEF0003F20E00006CC422216125569B0A02D29B9B0EBF98019C050C0E040D@att.net> Message-ID: <005a01c85d14$d97965c0$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> Another question might concern the term "success." -----Original Message----- From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of blacksox at att.net Sent: Monday, January 21, 2008 3:18 PM To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Subject: [New-Poetry] Recommending poetry presses and beyond I agree with David that the press does matter. General readership and curiosity will sell a certain amount of books. Without the poet going out and promoting the book, you will reach a saturation point in a relatively short amount of time. Another question might be: Is it necessary to tour to make a poetry book successful? Being a member of an artrock band, the only way we sold discs is to barrage a city with our music. Appearances, posters, and stores, then move on to the next town and do it again. To make your work sell, you better network the daylights out of it. Quality matters, but I am sure you have all read books raved about by other poets, that force you to question the entire process. Does marketing diminish quality of the work? Absolutely not. But, it doesn't add to it either/. Russ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From skip Tue Jan 22 11:47:14 2008 From: skip (Skip Fox) Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2008 10:47:14 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Recommending poetry presses and beyond In-Reply-To: <4795408D.2030708@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <005f01c85d16$76d47d40$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> I'm with Anny on this. I have not found a good reason to promote myself in almost 40 years of writing. The advantage, best case?: that a book gets to the few dozen (or more) people who will really read it (not necessarily with the certainty I had found Creeley Blackburn Duncan Pound etc. indispensable, but with the sense that the reader will find it solidly nourishing, a meal). Down side: I'm distracted from what I should be doing (writing) and in the worse case the sense of others' regard interferes with the work. Given that many will find our work by word of mouth, and given the fact that attention wouldn't truly help a number of us, then there is a question as to the real value of marketing or self-promotion. But, yes, if there is a good reason, I'm open as well . . . -----Original Message----- From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Bob Grumman Sent: Monday, January 21, 2008 7:02 PM To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Recommending poetry presses and beyond Anny Ballardini wrote: Someone should write a simple booklet with 10-12 chapters big characters: how to convince myself that marketing is good for poetry anyone? I promise I will read it first thing in the morning and after my prayers in the evening :-) Well, by marketing I mean simply getting one's work to people who will appreciate it (and not starve). It's unavoidable, I'm afraid. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard Tue Jan 22 13:32:25 2008 From: halvard (Halvard Johnson) Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2008 12:32:25 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Recommending poetry presses and beyond In-Reply-To: <005a01c85d14$d97965c0$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> References: <005a01c85d14$d97965c0$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> Message-ID: In Saudi America, success is spelled $ucce$$, doncha know? "We don't serve fine wine in half-pints, buddy." --Robert Ashley Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html On Jan 22, 2008, at 10:35 AM, Skip Fox wrote: > Another question might concern the term ?success.? > > -----Original Message----- > From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu > ] On Behalf Of blacksox at att.net > Sent: Monday, January 21, 2008 3:18 PM > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Subject: [New-Poetry] Recommending poetry presses and beyond > > I agree with David that the press does matter. General readership > and curiosity will sell a certain amount of books. Without the poet > going out and promoting the book, you will reach a saturation point > in a relatively short amount of time. > > Another question might be: Is it necessary to tour to make a poetry > book successful? Being a member of an artrock band, the only way we > sold discs is to barrage a city with our music. Appearances, > posters, and stores, then move on to the next town and do it again. > To make your work sell, you better network the daylights out of it. > Quality matters, but I am sure you have all read books raved about > by other poets, that force you to question the entire process. > Does marketing diminish quality of the work? Absolutely not. But, it > doesn't add to it either/. > > Russ > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini Tue Jan 22 15:51:53 2008 From: anny.ballardini (anny.ballardini at tin.it) Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2008 15:51:53 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] NYTimes.com: Editing of Frost Notebooks in Dispute Message-ID: <200801222051.m0MKproK015743@wiz.cath.vt.edu> This page was sent to you by: anny.ballardini at tin.it. BOOKS | January 22, 2008 Editing of Frost Notebooks in Dispute By MOTOKO RICH A recently published compendium of Robert Frost's personal notebooks is coming under attack from two critics who say that the editor of the volume mistranscribed hundreds, if not thousands, of Frost's words. http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/22/books/22frost.html?ex=1201669200&en=404fcdce70141f9f&ei=5070&emc=eta1 ---------------------------------------------------------- ABOUT THIS E-MAIL This e-mail was sent to you by a friend through NYTimes.com's E-mail This Article service. For general information about NYTimes.com, write to help at nytimes.com. NYTimes.com 620 Eighth Avenue New York, NY 10018 Copyright 2008 The New York Times Company -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini Tue Jan 22 17:18:40 2008 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2008 23:18:40 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Recommending poetry presses and beyond References: <005a01c85d14$d97965c0$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> Message-ID: <001301c85d44$be046ee0$6807104f@ANNY> In Italy they'd say: tagliente tagliare- to cut in its gerund form it indicates precision, sharpness and the idea of a shearing cut From: Halvard Johnson Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2008 7:32 PM In Saudi America, success is spelled $ucce$$, doncha know? "We don't serve fine wine in half-pints, buddy." --Robert Ashley Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html On Jan 22, 2008, at 10:35 AM, Skip Fox wrote: Another question might concern the term ?success.? -----Original Message----- From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of blacksox at att.net Sent: Monday, January 21, 2008 3:18 PM To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Subject: [New-Poetry] Recommending poetry presses and beyond I agree with David that the press does matter. General readership and curiosity will sell a certain amount of books. Without the poet going out and promoting the book, you will reach a saturation point in a relatively short amount of time. Another question might be: Is it necessary to tour to make a poetry book successful? Being a member of an artrock band, the only way we sold discs is to barrage a city with our music. Appearances, posters, and stores, then move on to the next town and do it again. To make your work sell, you better network the daylights out of it. Quality matters, but I am sure you have all read books raved about by other poets, that force you to question the entire process. Does marketing diminish quality of the work? Absolutely not. But, it doesn't add to it either/. Russ _______________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From blacksox Tue Jan 22 18:44:27 2008 From: blacksox (blacksox at att.net) Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2008 23:44:27 +0000 Subject: [New-Poetry] Recommending poetry presses and beyond Message-ID: <012220082344.28560.47967FDB0003DF6800006F9022243322829B0A02D29B9B0EBF98019C050C0E040D@att.net> The Booklet on why you should market would be a great asset. Self promotion is too much like masturbation. It feels good while you are doing it, but when you are finished, you have an empty feeling. You have to think about , who you want your readership to be? If it's your circle of family and poet friends, or people who frequent readings, you don't need to market. If you want to expand your audience beyond that scope, the only alternative is to market. Russ Golata -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From millb Tue Jan 22 19:10:09 2008 From: millb (millb at aol.com) Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2008 19:10:09 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Recommending poetry presses and beyond In-Reply-To: <005f01c85d16$76d47d40$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> Message-ID: <8CA2B6B731F8BF1-130C-1E17@MBLK-M41.sysops.aol.com> I think, for me, it's not so much that ugly word artists hate, "marketing," passing out flyers and broadcasting commercials as it is about being willing to read your work, make yourself available for events, inquire about reviews, etc. . .I'm usually excited?about the possibility of hearing a writer I like read his or her work.? With a few notable exceptions, a public reading adds to the texture of the work and makes it more immediate. Mill -----Original Message----- From: Skip Fox Bcc: millb at aol.com Sent: Tue, 22 Jan 2008 10:47 am Subject: RE: [New-Poetry] Recommending poetry presses and beyond I?m with Anny on this. I have not found a good reason to promote myself in almost 40 years of writing. The advantage, best case?: that a book gets to the few dozen (or more) people who will really read it (not necessarily with the certainty I had found Creeley Blackburn? Duncan Pound etc. indispensable, but with the sense that the reader will find it solidly nourishing, a meal). Down side: I?m distracted from what I should be doing (writing) and in the worse case the sense of others? regard interferes with the work. ? Given that many will find our work by word of mouth, and given the fact that attention wouldn?t truly help a number of us, then there is a question as to the real value of marketing or self-promotion. ?But, yes, if there is a good reason, I?m open as well . . . ? -----Original Message----- From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Bob Grumman Sent: Monday, January 21, 2008 7:02 PM To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Recommending poetry presses and beyond ? Anny Ballardini wrote: Someone should write a simple booklet with 10-12 chapters big characters: how to convince myself that marketing is good for poetry ? anyone? I promise I will read it first thing in the morning and after my prayers in the evening :-) ? Well, by marketing I mean simply getting one's work to people who will appreciate it (and not starve).? It's unavoidable, I'm afraid. --Bob? _______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry ________________________________________________________________________ More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://webmail.aol.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard Tue Jan 22 20:02:05 2008 From: halvard (Halvard Johnson) Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2008 19:02:05 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Recommending poetry presses and beyond In-Reply-To: <8CA2B6B731F8BF1-130C-1E17@MBLK-M41.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CA2B6B731F8BF1-130C-1E17@MBLK-M41.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <476763FB-7CAD-4EDF-9A51-F4800EBC8A6B@earthlink.net> For me, those public readings usually put obstacles between readers and work--the ambience of the venue, the personality of the author, his or her performance ability or lack there of (too much performance ability can be a problem as well as too little). Ah, but you've heard all this from me before at various times. Hal, the bad listener "The bacon too carries on its modest love affair." --Tony Towle Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html On Jan 22, 2008, at 6:10 PM, millb at aol.com wrote: > I think, for me, it's not so much that ugly word artists hate, > "marketing," passing out flyers and broadcasting commercials as it > is about being willing to read your work, make yourself available > for events, inquire about reviews, etc. . .I'm usually excited about > the possibility of hearing a writer I like read his or her work. > With a few notable exceptions, a public reading adds to the texture > of the work and makes it more immediate. > > Mill > > -----Original Message----- > From: Skip Fox > Bcc: millb at aol.com > Sent: Tue, 22 Jan 2008 10:47 am > Subject: RE: [New-Poetry] Recommending poetry presses and beyond > > I?m with Anny on this. I have not found a good reason to promote > myself in almost 40 years of writing. The advantage, best case?: > that a book gets to the few dozen (or more) people who will really > read it (not necessarily with the certainty I had found Creeley > Blackburn Duncan Pound etc. indispensable, but with the sense that > the reader will find it solidly nourishing, a meal). Down side: I?m > distracted from what I should be doing (writing) and in the worse > case the sense of others? regard interferes with the work. > > Given that many will find our work by word of mouth, and given the > fact that attention wouldn?t truly help a number of us, then there > isa question as to the real value of marketing or self-promotion. > But, yes, if there is a good reason, I?m open as well . . . > > -----Original Message----- > From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu > ] On Behalf Of Bob Grumman > Sent: Monday, January 21, 2008 7:02 PM > To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Recommending poetry presses and beyond > > > > Anny Ballardini wrote: > Someone should write a simple booklet with 10-12 chapters big > characters: > how to convince myself that marketing is good for poetry > > anyone? > I promise I will read it first thing in the morning and after my > prayers in the evening > :-) > > Well, by marketing I mean simply getting one's work to people who > will appreciate it (and not starve). It's unavoidable, I'm afraid. > > --Bob > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail! > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman Tue Jan 22 20:31:10 2008 From: bobgrumman (Bob Grumman) Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2008 20:31:10 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Recommending poetry presses and beyond In-Reply-To: <476763FB-7CAD-4EDF-9A51-F4800EBC8A6B@earthlink.net> References: <8CA2B6B731F8BF1-130C-1E17@MBLK-M41.sysops.aol.com> <476763FB-7CAD-4EDF-9A51-F4800EBC8A6B@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <479698DE.3010000@nut-n-but.net> Halvard Johnson wrote: > For me, those public readings usually put obstacles between > readers and work--the ambience of the venue, the personality > of the author, his or her performance ability or lack there of > (too much performance ability can be a problem as well as > too little). Ah, but you've heard all this from me before at > various times. > > Hal, the bad listener I'm okay with readings as reader or spectator--and I consider them not marketing, but simply an extension of one's work as a poet. Marketing, for me, is whatever one does to try to get one's work published, or to get a bookstore to stock one's book, or get a review of it, or win a fellowship or the equivalent--and make friends of those who can help you (you think) rather than those with whom you have poetics in common. Etc. Me, I was barely able to ask a friend of mine if I could do a presentation for her AP English classes when I was scheduled to sub for her.(I find it easy to intrude opinions on others, as here, but not Mine Art. --Bob G. From anny.ballardini Wed Jan 23 00:53:00 2008 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2008 06:53:00 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Recommending poetry presses and beyond References: <8CA2B6B731F8BF1-130C-1E17@MBLK-M41.sysops.aol.com> <476763FB-7CAD-4EDF-9A51-F4800EBC8A6B@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <003901c85d84$372818a0$97ab3252@ANNY> I tend to agree with Hal and tried to explain why several times. Maybe because poetry is for me fundamentally a private act. From here to say that I tend to confessionalism would be an easy association, what if I say that poetry is confessionalism even if you do not confess yourself? A sort of private psychological intuition of the world /society /nature /industry /the lack thereof (see industrial areas eclipsed from residential ones) and so on whichever style you use? That for a poem to be a good one you have to dig under the skin of things? From: Halvard Johnson Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2008 2:02 AM For me, those public readings usually put obstacles between readers and work--the ambience of the venue, the personality of the author, his or her performance ability or lack there of (too much performance ability can be a problem as well as too little). Ah, but you've heard all this from me before at various times. Hal, the bad listener "The bacon too carries on its modest love affair." --Tony Towle Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html On Jan 22, 2008, at 6:10 PM, millb at aol.com wrote: I think, for me, it's not so much that ugly word artists hate, "marketing," passing out flyers and broadcasting commercials as it is about being willing to read your work, make yourself available for events, inquire about reviews, etc. . .I'm usually excited about the possibility of hearing a writer I like read his or her work. With a few notable exceptions, a public reading adds to the texture of the work and makes it more immediate. Mill -----Original Message----- From: Skip Fox Bcc: millb at aol.com Sent: Tue, 22 Jan 2008 10:47 am Subject: RE: [New-Poetry] Recommending poetry presses and beyond I?m with Anny on this. I have not found a good reason to promote myself in almost 40 years of writing. The advantage, best case?: that a book gets to the few dozen (or more) people who will really read it (not necessarily with the certainty I had found Creeley Blackburn Duncan Pound etc. indispensable, but with the sense that the reader will find it solidly nourishing, a meal). Down side: I?m distracted from what I should be doing (writing) and in the worse case the sense of others? regard interferes with the work. Given that many will find our work by word of mouth, and given the fact that attention wouldn?t truly help a number of us, then there isa question as to the real value of marketing or self-promotion. But, yes, if there is a good reason, I?m open as well . . . -----Original Message----- From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Bob Grumman Sent: Monday, January 21, 2008 7:02 PM To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Recommending poetry presses and beyond Anny Ballardini wrote: Someone should write a simple booklet with 10-12 chapters big characters: how to convince myself that marketing is good for poetry anyone? I promise I will read it first thing in the morning and after my prayers in the evening :-) Well, by marketing I mean simply getting one's work to people who will appreciate it (and not starve). It's unavoidable, I'm afraid. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From amparker Wed Jan 23 06:16:38 2008 From: amparker (Parker, Alan Michael) Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2008 06:16:38 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] POV Message-ID: Hi, peeps. One more try: have WE noticed any kind of shift in the use of WE in recent work? WE--here where I am--suspect that political poetry has re-introduced WE into the free verse vernacular, in ways different from the use of the pronoun in other eras. Do WE have thoughts on the subject? Struggling in Identity Land, WE remain your humble servant -- AMP www.amparker.com From gejs1 Wed Jan 23 09:02:50 2008 From: gejs1 (Gerald Schwartz) Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2008 09:02:50 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] POV References: Message-ID: <000b01c85dc8$a6af2e40$63ae4a4a@yourae066c3a9b> Hello AMP, When I write WE, as in the following poem: Within, Without We are all that we seem, in part, doing outside whatever it is we seem to do. Within, we go viral, keeping that virus within to nourish and feel it grow. Us is the host taken and eaten. I work among the practical consequences which I derive from my incorporation in WE--the motive which it gives for the practice of fraternal charity. All those who have gone before, along with all OUR others intercede for the poem here and now, because, as the poem is approached by reader/maker, it is done so from the same body. So, I'm surrounded by a great cloud of witnesses, and so I can lay side my burden of ego that clings so closely and I'm freed to run with perserverance through the work of poetry set before me. And, yes, I believe we are surrounded by all these who came before us. They, like spectators (and at times, collaborators) at a sporting event, cheer us on, encouraging us as we mke our way through the work of poetry. There's a connection between those, past and present, aided by their work--and their work's encouragement. Somehow I arrived at this through long conversations with Cecil Taylor (summarized as: "we stand on the shoulders of others"), and my own close readings of the letters of Brother Lawrence, especially his writings on habitual union. gs > Hi, peeps. > > One more try: have WE noticed any kind of shift in the use of WE in recent > work? WE--here where I am--suspect that political poetry has re-introduced > WE into the free verse vernacular, in ways different from the use of the > pronoun in other eras. Do WE have thoughts on the subject? > > Struggling in Identity Land, WE remain your humble servant -- > > AMP > > www.amparker.com > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From halvard Wed Jan 23 10:28:47 2008 From: halvard (Halvard Johnson) Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2008 09:28:47 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] POV In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <453DE512-6CC2-424D-8D2A-15D33DF6D5ED@earthlink.net> No WE don't, not even wee ones. Hal "Information cannot argue with a closed mind." --Mike Nichols and Elaine May Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html On Jan 23, 2008, at 5:16 AM, Parker, Alan Michael wrote: > Hi, peeps. > > One more try: have WE noticed any kind of shift in the use of WE in > recent > work? WE--here where I am--suspect that political poetry has re- > introduced > WE into the free verse vernacular, in ways different from the use of > the > pronoun in other eras. Do WE have thoughts on the subject? > > Struggling in Identity Land, WE remain your humble servant -- > > AMP > > www.amparker.com > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From grahamd Wed Jan 23 10:38:56 2008 From: grahamd (David Graham) Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2008 09:38:56 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: POV In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <91D86230-B8C5-4C22-B341-D38128F9F892@ripon.edu> I and I wonder what poets & poems you refer to, Alan. Maybe throw out an example or two for the seminar to discuss? Then we may decide whether we are amused. . . . Can't say that I've noticed any particular trends a'trending, but I haven't been looking, particularly. Just recently I've found myself doing that vague-you thing a lot in my own drafts, something I'd been skeptical of for a long while. (When the second person seems merely a coy alternative to first, or worse, refers to no one/everyone.) As an old friend once scribbled in the margin of one of my poems which took refuge in this blurred You, "have the courage of your obsessions!" I've mostly been a fool persisting in my folly ever since. Funny you should mention it, though. A recent daily poem exercise in my journal, come to think of it, was titled "The Royal We." You been reading my journal or something? ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/About%20Me.html Poetry Library: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== On Jan 23, 2008, at 5:16 AM, Parker, Alan Michael wrote: > Hi, peeps. > > One more try: have WE noticed any kind of shift in the use of WE in > recent > work? WE--here where I am--suspect that political poetry has re- > introduced > WE into the free verse vernacular, in ways different from the use > of the > pronoun in other eras. Do WE have thoughts on the subject? > > Struggling in Identity Land, WE remain your humble servant -- > > AMP > > www.amparker.com > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cvoisine Wed Jan 23 11:06:46 2008 From: cvoisine (cvoisine at nmsu.edu) Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2008 09:06:46 -0700 (MST) Subject: [New-Poetry] POV In-Reply-To: <000b01c85dc8$a6af2e40$63ae4a4a@yourae066c3a9b> References: <000b01c85dc8$a6af2e40$63ae4a4a@yourae066c3a9b> Message-ID: <50020.71.222.240.109.1201104406.squirrel@webmail.nmsu.edu> Dear Allan- Having just udged a poetry contest, this trend is one I only recognized once I read your email. (The trend I noticed while judging was a major desire to be Dean Young.) One of my theories (post the pages and pages of reading) on first person plural is that it's a way to avoid seeming confessional without having to change much else about your writing. Connie > Hello AMP, > > When I write WE, as in the following poem: > > Within, Without > > We are all that we > seem, in part, doing > outside whatever it > is we seem to do. > Within, we go viral, > keeping that virus > within to nourish > and feel it grow. Us > is the host taken > and eaten. > > I work among the practical consequences which > I derive from my incorporation in WE--the motive > which it gives for the practice of fraternal charity. All > those who have gone before, along with all OUR others > intercede for the poem here and now, because, as the > poem is approached by reader/maker, it is done so from > the same body. > > So, I'm surrounded by a great cloud of witnesses, and so > I can lay side my burden of ego that clings so closely and > I'm freed to run with perserverance through the work of > poetry set before me. And, yes, I believe we are surrounded > by all these who came before us. They, like spectators (and > at times, collaborators) at a sporting event, cheer us on, > encouraging us as we mke our way through the work of > poetry. There's a connection between those, past and > present, aided by their work--and their work's encouragement. > > Somehow I arrived at this through long conversations with > Cecil Taylor (summarized as: "we stand on the shoulders of others"), > and my own close readings of the letters of Brother Lawrence, > especially his writings on habitual union. > > gs > > > >> Hi, peeps. >> >> One more try: have WE noticed any kind of shift in the use of WE in >> recent >> work? WE--here where I am--suspect that political poetry has >> re-introduced >> WE into the free verse vernacular, in ways different from the use of the >> pronoun in other eras. Do WE have thoughts on the subject? >> >> Struggling in Identity Land, WE remain your humble servant -- >> >> AMP >> >> www.amparker.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > From cvoisine Wed Jan 23 11:08:41 2008 From: cvoisine (cvoisine at nmsu.edu) Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2008 09:08:41 -0700 (MST) Subject: [New-Poetry] POV In-Reply-To: <50020.71.222.240.109.1201104406.squirrel@webmail.nmsu.edu> References: <000b01c85dc8$a6af2e40$63ae4a4a@yourae066c3a9b> <50020.71.222.240.109.1201104406.squirrel@webmail.nmsu.edu> Message-ID: <50030.71.222.240.109.1201104521.squirrel@webmail.nmsu.edu> also, misplaced modifiers are easier before coffee I've found... c > Dear Allan- > > Having just udged a poetry contest, this trend is one I only recognized > once I read your email. (The trend I noticed while judging was a major > desire to be Dean Young.) One of my theories (post the pages and pages of > reading) on first person plural is that it's a way to avoid seeming > confessional without having to change much else about your writing. > > Connie > > >> Hello AMP, >> >> When I write WE, as in the following poem: >> >> Within, Without >> >> We are all that we >> seem, in part, doing >> outside whatever it >> is we seem to do. >> Within, we go viral, >> keeping that virus >> within to nourish >> and feel it grow. Us >> is the host taken >> and eaten. >> >> I work among the practical consequences which >> I derive from my incorporation in WE--the motive >> which it gives for the practice of fraternal charity. All >> those who have gone before, along with all OUR others >> intercede for the poem here and now, because, as the >> poem is approached by reader/maker, it is done so from >> the same body. >> >> So, I'm surrounded by a great cloud of witnesses, and so >> I can lay side my burden of ego that clings so closely and >> I'm freed to run with perserverance through the work of >> poetry set before me. And, yes, I believe we are surrounded >> by all these who came before us. They, like spectators (and >> at times, collaborators) at a sporting event, cheer us on, >> encouraging us as we mke our way through the work of >> poetry. There's a connection between those, past and >> present, aided by their work--and their work's encouragement. >> >> Somehow I arrived at this through long conversations with >> Cecil Taylor (summarized as: "we stand on the shoulders of others"), >> and my own close readings of the letters of Brother Lawrence, >> especially his writings on habitual union. >> >> gs >> >> >> >>> Hi, peeps. >>> >>> One more try: have WE noticed any kind of shift in the use of WE in >>> recent >>> work? WE--here where I am--suspect that political poetry has >>> re-introduced >>> WE into the free verse vernacular, in ways different from the use of >>> the >>> pronoun in other eras. Do WE have thoughts on the subject? >>> >>> Struggling in Identity Land, WE remain your humble servant -- >>> >>> AMP >>> >>> www.amparker.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> New-Poetry mailing list >>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > From jfq Wed Jan 23 12:44:26 2008 From: jfq (jfq at myuw.net) Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2008 09:44:26 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] POV In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I dislike using the first person plural for a lot of reasons, not least of which i don't like to have a poem presume to speak for others when it's speaking for myself. That said, I do occasionally make use of it from time to time when it's a limited plural. that is, the we referred to is not a larger group or class or category, but rather is some group of individuals possibly including just one or two other people besides the speaker of the poem. in those cases, it is usually contextually very clear at least the size or nature of such a small group even if the actual membership is left out. On Wed, 23 Jan 2008, Parker, Alan Michael wrote: > Hi, peeps. > > One more try: have WE noticed any kind of shift in the use of WE in recent > work? WE--here where I am--suspect that political poetry has re-introduced > WE into the free verse vernacular, in ways different from the use of the > pronoun in other eras. Do WE have thoughts on the subject? > > Struggling in Identity Land, WE remain your humble servant -- > > AMP > > www.amparker.com > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > From jfq Wed Jan 23 12:52:09 2008 From: jfq (jfq at myuw.net) Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2008 09:52:09 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: POV In-Reply-To: <91D86230-B8C5-4C22-B341-D38128F9F892@ripon.edu> Message-ID: I do love "I and I" and make use of it. That's maybe a change. Of course, a white dude from seattle has to be careful using rastafarian jargon else im fear lookin like im poseur etc On Wed, 23 Jan 2008, David Graham wrote: > I and I wonder what poets & poems you refer to, Alan. Maybe throw out an > example or two for the seminar to discuss? Then we may decide whether we are > amused. . . . > > Can't say that I've noticed any particular trends a'trending, but I haven't > been looking, particularly. Just recently I've found myself doing that > vague-you thing a lot in my own drafts, something I'd been skeptical of for a > long while. (When the second person seems merely a coy alternative to first, > or worse, refers to no one/everyone.) As an old friend once scribbled in the > margin of one of my poems which took refuge in this blurred You, "have the > courage of your obsessions!" I've mostly been a fool persisting in my folly > ever since. > > Funny you should mention it, though. A recent daily poem exercise in my > journal, come to think of it, was titled "The Royal We." You been reading my > journal or something? > > > > > ======================================== > David Graham > grahamd at ripon.edu > > Home Page: > http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/About%20Me.html > > Poetry Library: > http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html > ========================================== > > > > On Jan 23, 2008, at 5:16 AM, Parker, Alan Michael wrote: > >> Hi, peeps. >> >> One more try: have WE noticed any kind of shift in the use of WE in recent >> work? WE--here where I am--suspect that political poetry has re-introduced >> WE into the free verse vernacular, in ways different from the use of the >> pronoun in other eras. Do WE have thoughts on the subject? >> >> Struggling in Identity Land, WE remain your humble servant -- >> >> AMP >> >> www.amparker.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > From bobgrumman Wed Jan 23 13:10:24 2008 From: bobgrumman (Bob Grumman) Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2008 13:10:24 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: POV In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <47978310.5030805@nut-n-but.net> jfq at myuw.net wrote: > > I do love "I and I" and make use of it. That's maybe a change. Of > course, a white dude from seattle has to be careful using rastafarian > jargon else im fear lookin like im poseur etc > I understood the correct usage to be, "Me and I." From jfq Wed Jan 23 13:31:54 2008 From: jfq (jfq at myuw.net) Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2008 10:31:54 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: POV In-Reply-To: <47978310.5030805@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: nope it's I and I and it's very flexible. It can be either the first person singular in which case the second I is Jah, or it can be the same thing as "you and I" or it can be the first person plural. The rastafarian dialect is extremely interesting. The wikipedia article is a good starting point: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rastafarian_vocabulary On Wed, 23 Jan 2008, Bob Grumman wrote: > > > jfq at myuw.net wrote: >> >> I do love "I and I" and make use of it. That's maybe a change. Of course, a >> white dude from seattle has to be careful using rastafarian jargon else im >> fear lookin like im poseur etc >> > I understood the correct usage to be, "Me and I." > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > From gmguddi Wed Jan 23 14:08:17 2008 From: gmguddi (Gabriel Gudding) Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2008 13:08:17 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] conchology: obedience to the illusion of literature In-Reply-To: <200801221700.m0MH032e007554@wiz.cath.vt.edu> References: <200801221700.m0MH032e007554@wiz.cath.vt.edu> Message-ID: <479790A1.4050004@ilstu.edu> http://gabrielgudding.blogspot.com/ My Experience in a Neuroscience Laboratory Obedience to the Illusion of Literature: Ginsberg, Mallarm?, Bourdieu Nada Gordon, Dada, and the Selling off of Kasey & Gary Fifteen Minute Poem for Ron Silliman [Removed from Blog b/c Construed as Negative] To the Sun at Anchor - excerpt/Chapbook Sale Fifteen Minute Poem for Eileen Myles Fifteen Minute Poem for Lola Ridge The Fruits of Celibacy: The Vision Songs of the Shakers Fifteen Minute Poem for David Shapiro: Masculinity and the Performance of Friendship Bourdieu on the Tactic of Scandal The Fetish of Technique: "Avant-Garde" or "Post Avant" blah blah blah More Reviews of _Rhode Island Notebook_ http://rhodeislandnotebook.blogspot.com/ http://gabrielgudding.blogspot.com/ From jforjames Wed Jan 23 18:46:41 2008 From: jforjames (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2008 18:46:41 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: POV In-Reply-To: <91D86230-B8C5-4C22-B341-D38128F9F892@ripon.edu> References: <91D86230-B8C5-4C22-B341-D38128F9F892@ripon.edu> Message-ID: <8CA2C31563983BC-C98-2117@webmail-dd06.sysops.aol.com> Not recent, but a famous example by Gwendolyn Brooks... THE POOL PLAYERS. SEVEN AT THE GOLDEN SHOVEL. We real cool. We Left school. We Lurk late. We Strike straight. We Sing sin. We Thin gin. We Jazz June. We Die soon. ________________________________________________________________________ More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://webmail.aol.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames Wed Jan 23 19:23:26 2008 From: jforjames (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2008 19:23:26 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: POV In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <8CA2C36789D4515-C98-2353@webmail-dd06.sysops.aol.com> We Two, How Long We Were Fool'd We two, how long we were fool'd, Now transmuted, we swiftly escape as Nature escapes, We are Nature, long have we been absent, but now we return, We become plants, trunks, foliage, roots, bark, We are bedded in the ground, we are rocks, We are oaks, we grow in the openings side by side, We browse, we are two among the wild herds spontaneous as any, We are two fishes swimming in the sea together, We are what locust blossoms are, we drop scent around lanes mornings and evenings, We are also the coarse smut of beasts, vegetables, minerals, We are two predatory hawks, we soar above and look down, We are two resplendent suns, we it is who balance ourselves orbic and stellar, we are as two comets, We prowl fang'd and four-footed in the woods, we spring on prey, We are two clouds forenoons and afternoons driving overhead, We are seas mingling, we are two of those cheerful waves rolling over each other and interwetting each other, We are what the atmosphere is, transparent, receptive, pervious, impervious, We are snow, rain, cold, darkness, we are each product and influence of the globe, We have circled and circled till we have arrived home again, we two, We have voided all but freedom and all but our own joy. --Walt Whitman ________________________________________________________________________ More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://webmail.aol.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames Wed Jan 23 19:31:29 2008 From: jforjames (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2008 19:31:29 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: POV In-Reply-To: <8CA2C36789D4515-C98-2353@webmail-dd06.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <8CA2C3798D70752-C98-23DE@webmail-dd06.sysops.aol.com> "What we've got here?is...failure to communicate." 'The Captain', Cool Hand Luke ________________________________________________________________________ More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://webmail.aol.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gejs1 Wed Jan 23 19:34:12 2008 From: gejs1 (Gerald Schwartz) Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2008 19:34:12 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: POV References: <8CA2C36789D4515-C98-2353@webmail-dd06.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <001401c85e20$d79527a0$63ae4a4a@yourae066c3a9b> We do have multitudes within us...! gs We Two, How Long We Were Fool'd We two, how long we were fool'd, Now transmuted, we swiftly escape as Nature escapes, We are Nature, long have we been absent, but now we return, We become plants, trunks, foliage, roots, bark, We are bedded in the ground, we are rocks, We are oaks, we grow in the openings side by side, We browse, we are two among the wild herds spontaneous as any, We are two fishes swimming in the sea together, We are what locust blossoms are, we drop scent around lanes mornings and evenings, We are also the coarse smut of beasts, vegetables, minerals, We are two predatory hawks, we soar above and look down, We are two resplendent suns, we it is who balance ourselves orbic and stellar, we are as two comets, We prowl fang'd and four-footed in the woods, we spring on prey, We are two clouds forenoons and afternoons driving overhead, We are seas mingling, we are two of those cheerful waves rolling over each other and interwetting each other, We are what the atmosphere is, transparent, receptive, pervious, impervious, We are snow, rain, cold, darkness, we are each product and influence of the globe, We have circled and circled till we have arrived home again, we two, We have voided all but freedom and all but our own joy. --Walt Whitman ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail! ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard Wed Jan 23 19:36:16 2008 From: halvard (Halvard Johnson) Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2008 18:36:16 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: POV In-Reply-To: <001401c85e20$d79527a0$63ae4a4a@yourae066c3a9b> References: <8CA2C36789D4515-C98-2353@webmail-dd06.sysops.aol.com> <001401c85e20$d79527a0$63ae4a4a@yourae066c3a9b> Message-ID: <2230758E-D1BE-4F73-98F9-246DDFB4AF4E@earthlink.net> We have tumultitudes within us . . . ! "I have nothing to say and I am saying it and that is poetry." --John Cage Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html On Jan 23, 2008, at 6:34 PM, Gerald Schwartz wrote: > We do have multitudes within us...! > > gs > > We Two, How Long We Were Fool'd > > We two, how long we were fool'd, > Now transmuted, we swiftly escape as Nature escapes, > We are Nature, long have we been absent, but now we return, > We become plants, trunks, foliage, roots, bark, > We are bedded in the ground, we are rocks, > We are oaks, we grow in the openings side by side, > We browse, we are two among the wild herds spontaneous as any, > We are two fishes swimming in the sea together, > We are what locust blossoms are, we drop scent around lanes mornings > and evenings, > We are also the coarse smut of beasts, vegetables, minerals, > We are two predatory hawks, we soar above and look down, > We are two resplendent suns, we it is who balance ourselves orbic > and stellar, we are as two comets, > We prowl fang'd and four-footed in the woods, we spring on prey, > We are two clouds forenoons and afternoons driving overhead, > We are seas mingling, we are two of those cheerful waves rolling > over each other and interwetting each other, > We are what the atmosphere is, transparent, receptive, pervious, > impervious, > We are snow, rain, cold, darkness, we are each product and influence > of the globe, > We have circled and circled till we have arrived home again, we two, > We have voided all but freedom and all but our own joy. > > --Walt Whitman > More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail! > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames Wed Jan 23 19:53:21 2008 From: jforjames (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2008 19:53:21 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Jewish poetry Message-ID: <8CA2C3AA6A7BCB8-E78-14FF@webmail-mf03.sysops.aol.com> http://www.forward.com/articles/12531/ People Of the Chapbook: Jewish Poets as Jewish Teachers The Polymath By Jay Michaelson Wed. Jan 23, 2008 Not many people know it, but Jewish poetry is alive and well. The neglect is surprising, really, since we are, after all, the People of the Book, and we allegedly cherish our poets, from the ancients to Amichai. But perhaps it?s not so surprising, given our contemporary culture, which (poets laureate notwithstanding) relegates poetry to the back of the bookstore and even further back in our cultural consciousness. Even the most successful of contemporary American poets also have day jobs. Yet contemporary Jewish poetry does things that American poetry does not: ________________________________________________________________________ More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://webmail.aol.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From amyhappens Thu Jan 24 10:56:41 2008 From: amyhappens (amy king) Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2008 07:56:41 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] Reminder - Tomorrow In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <909194.68539.qm@web83315.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> MiPOesias presents ~~ STOBB ~~ LIN ~~ YOUNG Friday, January 25th @ 7:00 p.m. Stain Bar ??? Williamsburg, Brooklyn ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ WILLIAM STOBB is the author of Nervous Systems, a 2006 National Poetry Series selection and For Better Night Vision, a limited edition chapbook produced by the Black Rock Press at the University of Nevada. His poems have appeared in American Poetry Review, Colorado Review, American Literary Review, Denver Quarterly, and online at MiPOesias, Three Candles, Cricket Online Review, and nthposition. Stobb hosts the monthly audio column on poetry and poetics, "Hard to Say," on miporadio. With David Krump, he co-curates the reading series at the Pump House Regional Arts Center in La Crosse, Wisconsin. Stobb is Associate Professor of English at Viterbo University. 1. http://www.mipoesias.com/Poetry/stobb_william_e.html 2. http://www.mipoesias.com/2007/stobb_william.htm TAO LIN is the author a poetry-collection, you are a little bit happier than i am (Action Books, 2006), a story-collection, Bed (Melville House, 2007), and a novel, Eeeee Eee Eeee (Melville House, 2007). Melville House is publishing his second poetry-collection, Cognitive-Behavioral Therapy, in 2008. His web site is called Reader of Depressing Books. 1. http://www.mipoesias.com/Poetry/lin_tao.html 2. http://www.mipoesias.com/2007/lin_tao.htm MIKE YOUNG is the co-editor of NO?? Journal, a free literary/political magazine. His work has or will appear in MiPOesias, Backwards City Review, realpoetik, Juked, elimae, BlazeVOX, 3:AM and elsewhere. A chapbook of his work is forthcoming from Transmission Press. He sleeps most of the time in Massachusetts. http://www.mipoesias.com/2007/young_mike.htm ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ STAIN BAR 766 Grand Street Brooklyn , NY 11211 (L train to Grand Street Stop, walk 1 block west) 718/387-7840 http://www.stainbar.com/ Hope you'll stop by! Amy King http://www.mipoesias.com http://miporeadingseries2007.blogspot.com/2007/09/january-2008.html -- Blog http://www.amyking.org/blog --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames Thu Jan 24 20:14:08 2008 From: jforjames (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2008 20:14:08 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Whittier's Snow-Bound Message-ID: <8CA2D06B895C393-D90-549@webmail-de13.sysops.aol.com> Just heard a dramatic reading of John Greenleaf Whittier's "Snow-Bound" by Michael Maglaras. Well done. 200 people in the house at New Britain Museum of American Art. http://cdbaby.com/cd/maglaras Maglaras is a bit a renaissance man. He produced and acted in a movie based on Marsden Hartley's experience living?with a Nova Scotia fishing family suffering a tragedy. See here.... http://www.two17films.com/About%20the%20Film.htm And Maglaras?runs a risk management consulting firm. Bravo, well done. Whittier lives in the hearts and minds of some hearty New Englanders this wintry evening. Finnegan ________________________________________________________________________ More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://webmail.aol.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames Thu Jan 24 20:16:16 2008 From: jforjames (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2008 20:16:16 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Paulin's The Secret Life of Poems Message-ID: <8CA2D0704E6484F-D90-56B@webmail-de13.sysops.aol.com> http://www.newstatesman.com/200801240051 Essential readings Michael Glover Published 24 January 2008 The Secret Life of Poems Tom Paulin Faber & Faber, 256pp, ?17.99 What exactly are poems? And what are they good for? In the 20th century the pre-eminent poetic mode was the lyric, and so poems, gen erally speaking, were short, explosive devices. Many famous longer poems were written then, too - William Carlos Williams's Paterson and Ezra Pound's Cantos, for example. Yet neither of these was entirely successful because, in part, they seemed to be occupying some uneasy middle ground between a kind of writing that was embedded in myth, and something more akin to fiction. Tom Paulin's new book calls itself a poetry primer. Its aim is to show us how individual poems work ________________________________________________________________________ More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://webmail.aol.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames Thu Jan 24 20:30:28 2008 From: jforjames (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2008 20:30:28 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Longenbach on Oppen Message-ID: <8CA2D09009393B3-D90-615@webmail-de13.sysops.aol.com> http://www.thenation.com/doc/20080211/longenbach review | posted January 24, 2008 (February 11, 2008 issue)? A Test of Poetry? James Longenbach? ? George Oppen, who wrote some of the most austerely beautiful poems of the twentieth century, is known best for not writing at all. After publishing Discrete Series in 1934, at the age of 26, he entered a period of silence that would not conclude until a quarter- century later, when The Materials appeared in 1962. Oppen called himself the oldest promising poet in America, but after Of Being Numerous appeared in 1968, it won the Pulitzer Prize. ? ________________________________________________________________________ More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://webmail.aol.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames Thu Jan 24 20:38:35 2008 From: jforjames (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2008 20:38:35 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] litmag watch: Torch Message-ID: <8CA2D0A22FF8BB5-D90-68A@webmail-de13.sysops.aol.com> http://www.torchpoetry.org/ ________________________________________________________________________ More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://webmail.aol.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Opus40-01 Thu Jan 24 20:51:26 2008 From: Opus40-01 (TheOldMole) Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2008 20:51:26 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] litmag watch: Torch In-Reply-To: <8CA2D0A22FF8BB5-D90-68A@webmail-de13.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CA2D0A22FF8BB5-D90-68A@webmail-de13.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <4799409E.5070507@opus40.org> jforjames at aol.com wrote: > *http://www.torchpoetry.org/* > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > *More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail > !* I read all this together, and at first I thought it was the new litmag that had more new features than ever. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ The moral is this: in American verse, The better you are, the pay is worse. --Corey Ford From roxy533 Thu Jan 24 21:02:43 2008 From: roxy533 (Roxanne Hoffman) Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2008 18:02:43 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] Mon Jan 28 Novack, Shmailo, Goetsch, Papadopoulos, Hoffman in NYC @ Cornelia St. Message-ID: <5024.82455.qm@web39606.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Mon Jan 28 Novack, Shmailo, Goetsch, Papadopoulos,Hoffman in NYC @ Cornelia St. MONDAY 28-JAN-2008 at 6PM Downstairs at Cornelia Street ~Presents~ CAROL NOVACK (MAD HATTERS' REVIEW) + LARISSA SHMAILO (TWiN Poetry, Fulcrum Annual) + DOUGLAS GOETSCH (JANE STREET PRESS) accompanied by composer/pianist JOHN PAPADOULUS Emcee: ROXANNE HOFFMAN (POETS WEAR PRADA) @ The Cornelia Street Caf? 29 Cornelia St. (bet. Bleecker & West 4th St.) $7 cover includes one house drink info/directions: http://corneliastreetcafe.com/ About the Featured Poets: CAROL NOVACK is a former criminal defense/ constitutional lawyer, an occasional instructor in lyrical fiction writing, and the publisher of Mad Hatters' Review . She's also a former grant recipient and the author of a chapbook of poetry, a play, and several collaborative projects. A chapbook of fictions will be published this year by Poets Wear Prada Press. Recent writings in print may or will be found in journals including American Letters & Commentary, Fiction International, First Intensity, Gargoyle, Journal of Experimental Fiction, LIT, Notre Dame Review, and in the anthology, Online Writings The Best of the First Years as well as online at Diagram, 5_trope, Del Sol Review, Milk, and Otoliths. She has a CD, INVENTIONS I: Fictions, Fusions & Poems. LARISSA SHMAILO has been published in Fulcrum, Rattapallax, Drunken Boat, Big Bridge, Naropa?s We, and many other publications (please see www.myspace.com/thenonetworld for a complete listing). Her CD, The No-Net World, has been heard on radio stations and the Internet around the world. Larissa translated the Russian Futurist opera Victory over the Sun by A. Kruchenych; a DVD of the original English-language production is part of the collection of the New York Museum of Modern Art. She recently contributed translations to the anthology Contemporary Russian Poetry to be published by Dalkey Archive Press. She is a director of TWiN Poetry, an informal collective of 7,000 audio poets, and public coordinator for Fulcrum Annual. Her chapbook, A Cure for Suicide will be available from Cervena Barva Press in 2008. DOUGLAS GOETSCH is the author of six collections of poetry, most recently YOUR WHOLE LIFE, winner of the 2007 Slipstream Prize. His work has appeared in Poetry, The Iowa Review, The American Scholar, Ploughshares, online at PoetryDaily and Garison Keillor's The Writer's Almanac, on the air at NPR, and in numerous anthologies. After 21 years he has recently resigned from teaching high school in New York City. Goetsch now writes full time and is founding editor of Jane Street Press. *** POETS WEAR PRADA C/O Roxanne Hoffman 533 Bloomfield Street 2nd Floor Hoboken, NJ 07030 http://poetswearpradanj.home.att.net POETS WEAR PRADA is a small press based in Hoboken, New Jersey devoted to introducing new authors through limited edition, high- quality chaplets, primarily of poetry 'New press, great authors, a publisher who is one miracle short of sainthood.' - Angelo Verga, Poetry Curator of The Cornelia Street Cafe 'Poets Wear Prada is a poetry publishing house with excellent poets and affordable books with beautiful covers. Have you had your poetry today?' - Meredith Sue Willis, Books for Readers 'Stylistically, these beautifully designed and produced chaplets bear their own distinctive signature. - Linda Lerner, Small Press Review" Proud Member of the Council of Literary Magazines & Presses *** join our yahoo group at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/poetswearprada/ and become our friend on myspace at: http://www.myspace.com/poetswearprada From jorgensen_a Thu Jan 24 23:01:17 2008 From: jorgensen_a (Alexander Jorgensen) Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2008 20:01:17 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] Spring Readings - Information on "open slots" In-Reply-To: <200801241700.m0OH06oM000768@wiz.cath.vt.edu> Message-ID: <253641.7977.qm@web54603.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Will be Stateside in March and am currently in the midst of organizing some readings, the most notable, perhaps, at Xavier University. Any open slots and information related to locales btw Midwest and East Coast would be appreciated. My work has appeared in journals both online and in print, with new work to appear in upcoming Big Bridge, Otoliths (and this is gonna be an IMPORTANT one for those interested in VISPO), and Vibrant Gray. I will be in the US for about 2 weeks, beginning 8 March. Some work online via this link: http://www.alexanderjorgensen.com Regards, Alexander Jorgensen -- Tennessee Williams: "A vacuum is a hell of a lot better than some of the stuff that nature replaces it with." -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd Fri Jan 25 09:19:55 2008 From: grahamd (David Graham) Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2008 08:19:55 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Anti- Poetry Message-ID: Issue #1 of Anti- is now online: http://anti-poetry.com/issue1/ "Anti- is not aesthetically affiliated with Nicanor Parra?s school of antipoetry, though the editor does think more poets ought to heed Parra?s advice that ?You have to improve the blank page.? Anti- is contrarian, a devil?s advocate that primarily stands against the confinement of poetry in too-small boxes. Anti- wants to provide a single arena for a wide range of styles and ideas, so these different kinds of poets and poems can either fight it out or learn to coexist. We want to be a venue where voices from the margin can be heard next to more established ones. We?re also interested in work that blurs boundaries: between verse and prose, traditional and cutting edge, metrical and free, humorous and scary, narrative and lyric and linguistically fragmented." ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/About%20Me.html Poetry Library: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cervantes.james Fri Jan 25 11:22:53 2008 From: cervantes.james (James Cervantes) Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2008 09:22:53 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Anti- Poetry In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <648208b60801250822s7b5dd1a9p452dd9488099f8a6@mail.gmail.com> Seems pretty mainstream to me, if not young. - Jim On 1/25/08, David Graham wrote: > Issue #1 of Anti- is now online: > > http://anti-poetry.com/issue1/ > > "Anti- is not aesthetically affiliated with Nicanor Parra's school of > antipoetry, though the editor does think more poets ought to heed Parra's > advice that "You have to improve the blank page." Anti- is contrarian, a > devil's advocate that primarily stands against the confinement of poetry in > too-small boxes. Anti- wants to provide a single arena for a wide range of > styles and ideas, so these different kinds of poets and poems can either > fight it out or learn to coexist. We want to be a venue where voices from > the margin can be heard next to more established ones. We're also interested > in work that blurs boundaries: between verse and prose, traditional and > cutting edge, metrical and free, humorous and scary, narrative and lyric and > linguistically fragmented." > > > > ======================================== > David Graham > grahamd at ripon.edu > > Home Page: > http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/About%20Me.html > > Poetry Library: > http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html > ========================================== > > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > From jforjames Fri Jan 25 13:46:37 2008 From: jforjames (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2008 13:46:37 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Heidegger and poetry Message-ID: <8CA2D99BFD2BC73-CFC-1111@webmail-de11.sysops.aol.com> http://www.poetrymagazine.org/magazine/0108/comment_180561.html The Taste of Silence by Adam Kirsch Ours does not promise to go down in literary history as a great age of religious poetry. Yet if contemporary poetry is not often religious, it is still intensely, covertly metaphysical. Human nature, it seems, compels us to keep asking about the first things, even if we no longer accept the same answers that our ancestors did, or even the same kind of answers. The more widely you read, in fact, the clearer it becomes that our poetry has a distinctive metaphysics, a set of principles or intuitions held in common by poets as different as Seamus Heaney, Charles Simic, and Billy Collins. This metaphysical sensibility, I think, is what will give our period a retrospective unity, when readers of the future come to survey what looks to us like chaos. And the best document of that sensibility?the single piece of writing that does the most to explain what our poetry believes, and the ways it expresses that belief?is an essay by Martin Heidegger, "The Origin of the Work of Art." ________________________________________________________________________ More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://webmail.aol.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames Fri Jan 25 15:07:06 2008 From: jforjames (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2008 15:07:06 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Love poet busted in Burma Message-ID: <8CA2DA4FE49EDCC-CFC-177A@webmail-de11.sysops.aol.com> http://www.cbc.ca/arts/books/story/2008/01/24/burmese-poet.html Burmese arrest poet over love verse with secret message Last Updated: Thursday, January 24, 2008 | 3:03 PM ET CBC News Burma has arrested a well-known poet over a love poem authorities charge is a secret criticism of military leader Than Shwe. Saw Wai was arrested Tuesday after his February the 14th poem appeared in a Rangoon magazine, The Love Journal. Burmese police have arrested a poet they say wrote a secret criticism of military leader Than Shwe, shown in 2005, in a love poem. (David Longstreath/Associated Press) The poem's secret message was "Power crazy Senior General Than Shwe," and could be discovered by reading the first words of each line. ________________________________________________________________________ More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://webmail.aol.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cervantes.james Fri Jan 25 16:01:48 2008 From: cervantes.james (James Cervantes) Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2008 14:01:48 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Love poet busted in Burma In-Reply-To: <8CA2DA4FE49EDCC-CFC-177A@webmail-de11.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CA2DA4FE49EDCC-CFC-177A@webmail-de11.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <648208b60801251301v28ecf774xc07281e768b6646d@mail.gmail.com> See what happens when you try to be a covert political poet. Much contemporary poetry will be re-examined in the light of this. - Jim On 1/25/08, jforjames at aol.com wrote: > > > http://www.cbc.ca/arts/books/story/2008/01/24/burmese-poet.html > Burmese arrest poet over love verse with secret message > Last Updated: Thursday, January 24, 2008 | 3:03 PM ET > CBC News > Burma has arrested a well-known poet over a love poem authorities charge is > a secret criticism of military leader Than Shwe. > Saw Wai was arrested Tuesday after his February the 14th poem appeared in a > Rangoon magazine, The Love Journal. > > Burmese police have arrested a poet they say wrote a secret criticism of > military leader Than Shwe, shown in 2005, in a love poem. > (David Longstreath/Associated Press) The poem's secret message was "Power > crazy Senior General Than Shwe," and could be discovered by reading the > first words of each line. > > ________________________________ > More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail! > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > From jfq Fri Jan 25 16:40:13 2008 From: jfq (jfq at myuw.net) Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2008 13:40:13 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] Love poet busted in Burma In-Reply-To: <648208b60801251301v28ecf774xc07281e768b6646d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: If it was just the first words of each line, he wasn't trying that hard to be covert. On Fri, 25 Jan 2008, James Cervantes wrote: > See what happens when you try to be a covert political poet. Much > contemporary poetry will be re-examined in the light of this. > > - Jim > > On 1/25/08, jforjames at aol.com wrote: >> >> >> http://www.cbc.ca/arts/books/story/2008/01/24/burmese-poet.html >> Burmese arrest poet over love verse with secret message >> Last Updated: Thursday, January 24, 2008 | 3:03 PM ET >> CBC News >> Burma has arrested a well-known poet over a love poem authorities charge is >> a secret criticism of military leader Than Shwe. >> Saw Wai was arrested Tuesday after his February the 14th poem appeared in a >> Rangoon magazine, The Love Journal. >> >> Burmese police have arrested a poet they say wrote a secret criticism of >> military leader Than Shwe, shown in 2005, in a love poem. >> (David Longstreath/Associated Press) The poem's secret message was "Power >> crazy Senior General Than Shwe," and could be discovered by reading the >> first words of each line. >> >> ________________________________ >> More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail! >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > From gmguddi Fri Jan 25 18:19:03 2008 From: gmguddi (Gabriel Gudding) Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2008 17:19:03 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] fifteen minute poem for ron silliman Message-ID: <479A6E67.8050001@ilstu.edu> [complete w/ pictures] http://gabrielgudding.blogspot.com/ ________________________________________ http://rhodeislandnotebook.blogspot.com/ ---------------------------------------- Gabriel Gudding Department of English Illinois State University Normal, IL 61790-4240 From mandolin Fri Jan 25 22:31:41 2008 From: mandolin (Michael Snider) Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2008 22:31:41 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Longenbach on Oppen In-Reply-To: <8CA2D09009393B3-D90-615@webmail-de13.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CA2D09009393B3-D90-615@webmail-de13.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <9ACEE754-1B53-47A0-800A-D2639D092FF8@mac.com> On Jan 24, 2008, at 8:30 PM, JforJames at aol.com wrote: > A Test of Poetry > James Longenbach > > George Oppen, who wrote some of the most austerely beautiful poems > of the twentieth century, I woder if someone could post or point me to a poem of Oppen's that might justify Longenbach's statement. It could be a personal failure on my part , but I've never been able to finish half a page of him-- and that seems to have usually meant about 15 words. If it is just me, can someone give me a clue? I meant that about "personal failure on my part". I think there has to be at least something broken, since the only novels by a Russian writer I've ever finished are Eugene Onegin, in Johnson's wonderful verse translation, and Nabokov's Ada, written in English. Nabokov's Onegin met Mr. Wall. From JforJames Sat Jan 26 11:21:40 2008 From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2008 11:21:40 EST Subject: [New-Poetry] Longenbach on Oppen Message-ID: In a message dated 1/25/2008 10:32:14 PM Eastern Standard Time, mandolin at mac.com writes: George Oppen, who wrote some of the most austerely beautiful poems > of the twentieth century, I woder if someone could post or point me to a poem of Oppen's that might justify Longenbach's statement. It could be a personal failure on my part , but I've never been able to finish half a page of him-- and that seems to have usually meant about 15 words. If it is just me, can someone give me a clue? This may not justify Longenbach's statement, but here's the full poem of which he quoted only a snippet in the article... Psalm veritas sequitur... In the small beauty of the forest The wild deer bedding down? That they are there! Their eyes Effortless, the soft lips Nuzzle and the alien small teeth Tear at the grass The roots of it Dangle from their mouths Scattering earth in the strange woods. They who are there. Their paths Nibbled thru the fields, the leaves that shade them Hang in the distances Of sun The small nouns Crying faith In this in which the wild deer Startle, and stare out. --Goerge Oppen, Collected Poems. Copyright ? 1975 by George Oppen. Reprinted with the permission of New Directions Publishing Corporation. (In case the formatting comes out wrong, please note that first lines of stanzas 2 thru 5 are tabbed over to the right) -- Squall coming about When the squall knocked her Flat on the water. When she came Upright, here rig was gone And her crew clinging to her. The water in her cabins Washing thru companionways and hatches And the deep ribs Had in that mid-passage No kinship with any sea. --George Oppen (The Collected Poems of George Oppen, New Directions, 1975) -- Others I like: "Resort," "The Mayan Ground," "Inlet," and pretty much all of "Of Being Numerous." It seems apt to describe Oppen's poetry as an 'austere lyricism'. Finnegan **************Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL Music. (http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?NCID=aolcmp003000000025 48) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd Sat Jan 26 11:28:47 2008 From: grahamd (David Graham) Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2008 10:28:47 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Longenbach on Oppen In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <655923A0-9D1A-450A-9450-7DD2295D96DD@ripon.edu> In my maximalist mood in recent years, I haven't been much drawn to Oppen, but I'd certainly go with "austere lyricism" as a description. The following may currently be my favorite Oppen poem because it's not especially typical. A more traditional lyric, maybe? From a Photograph Her arms around me --child-- Around my head, hugging with her whole arms, Whole arms as if I were a loved and native rock, The apple in her hand--her apple and her father, and my nose pressed Hugely to the collar of her winter coat. There in the photograph It is the child who is the branch We fall from, where would be bramble, Brush, bramble in the young Winter With its blowing snow she must have thought Was ours to give to her. --George Oppen ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/About%20Me.html Poetry Library: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== On Jan 26, 2008, at 10:21 AM, JforJames at aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 1/25/2008 10:32:14 PM Eastern Standard Time, > mandolin at mac.com writes: > George Oppen, who wrote some of the most austerely beautiful poems > > of the twentieth century, > > > I woder if someone could post or point me to a poem of Oppen's that > might justify Longenbach's statement. It could be a personal failure > on my part , but I've never been able to finish half a page of him-- > and that seems to have usually meant about 15 words. If it is just me, > can someone give me a clue? > This may not justify Longenbach's statement, but here's the full poem > of which he quoted only a snippet in the article... > > Psalm > veritas sequitur... > > In the small beauty of the forest > The wild deer bedding down? > That they are there! > > Their eyes > Effortless, the soft lips > Nuzzle and the alien small teeth > Tear at the grass > > The roots of it > Dangle from their mouths > Scattering earth in the strange woods. > They who are there. > > Their paths > Nibbled thru the fields, the leaves that shade them > Hang in the distances > Of sun > > The small nouns > Crying faith > In this in which the wild deer > Startle, and stare out. > > --Goerge Oppen, Collected Poems. Copyright ? 1975 by George Oppen. > Reprinted with the permission of New Directions Publishing > Corporation. > > (In case the formatting comes out wrong, please note that first > lines of stanzas 2 thru 5 are tabbed over to the right) > > > -- > Squall > > coming about > When the squall knocked her > Flat on the water. When she came > Upright, here rig was gone > And her crew clinging to her. The water in her cabins > Washing thru companionways and hatches > And the deep ribs > Had in that mid-passage > No kinship with any sea. > > > --George Oppen > (The Collected Poems of George Oppen, New Directions, 1975) > > -- > Others I like: "Resort," "The Mayan Ground," "Inlet," and pretty > much all of "Of Being Numerous." > It seems apt to describe Oppen's poetry as an 'austere lyricism'. > Finnegan > > > > Who's never won? Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL > Music. > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini Sat Jan 26 22:05:34 2008 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2008 19:05:34 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Longenbach on Oppen In-Reply-To: <655923A0-9D1A-450A-9450-7DD2295D96DD@ripon.edu> References: <655923A0-9D1A-450A-9450-7DD2295D96DD@ripon.edu> Message-ID: found on the net: http://www.box.net/shared/sdcqkngjxf Message that my father (in S F) was dying. Hypochondriac family; my father less ill than that, the meeting in his hospital room as equivocal, as difficult, as dangerous to me as all our meetings-- The nurse came into the room and asked me to wait outside a moment. I walked down the hall to a little waiting room and sat down. The floor-nurse on duty recognized me (I look like my father) She said, I guess what a man cares most about in his life is his son. I was startled and absolutely unprepared. My father's temperature was running fairly high, I realized that he must have talked of me. My face must have shown how startled and how unprepared I was. The nurse saw it, and she began to cry God help us all. (Letters 208) G.Oppen ----- Original Message ----- From: David Graham To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views Sent: Saturday, January 26, 2008 8:28 AM Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Longenbach on Oppen In my maximalist mood in recent years, I haven't been much drawn to Oppen, but I'd certainly go with "austere lyricism" as a description. The following may currently be my favorite Oppen poem because it's not especially typical. A more traditional lyric, maybe? From a Photograph Her arms around me --child-- Around my head, hugging with her whole arms, Whole arms as if I were a loved and native rock, The apple in her hand--her apple and her father, and my nose pressed Hugely to the collar of her winter coat. There in the photograph It is the child who is the branch We fall from, where would be bramble, Brush, bramble in the young Winter With its blowing snow she must have thought Was ours to give to her. --George Oppen ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/About%20Me.html Poetry Library: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== On Jan 26, 2008, at 10:21 AM, JforJames at aol.com wrote: In a message dated 1/25/2008 10:32:14 PM Eastern Standard Time, mandolin at mac.com writes: George Oppen, who wrote some of the most austerely beautiful poems > of the twentieth century, I woder if someone could post or point me to a poem of Oppen's that might justify Longenbach's statement. It could be a personal failure on my part , but I've never been able to finish half a page of him-- and that seems to have usually meant about 15 words. If it is just me, can someone give me a clue? This may not justify Longenbach's statement, but here's the full poem of which he quoted only a snippet in the article... Psalm veritas sequitur... In the small beauty of the forest The wild deer bedding down? That they are there! Their eyes Effortless, the soft lips Nuzzle and the alien small teeth Tear at the grass The roots of it Dangle from their mouths Scattering earth in the strange woods. They who are there. Their paths Nibbled thru the fields, the leaves that shade them Hang in the distances Of sun The small nouns Crying faith In this in which the wild deer Startle, and stare out. --Goerge Oppen, Collected Poems. Copyright ? 1975 by George Oppen. Reprinted with the permission of New Directions Publishing Corporation. (In case the formatting comes out wrong, please note that first lines of stanzas 2 thru 5 are tabbed over to the right) -- Squall coming about When the squall knocked her Flat on the water. When she came Upright, here rig was gone And her crew clinging to her. The water in her cabins Washing thru companionways and hatches And the deep ribs Had in that mid-passage No kinship with any sea. --George Oppen (The Collected Poems of George Oppen, New Directions, 1975) -- Others I like: "Resort," "The Mayan Ground," "Inlet," and pretty much all of "Of Being Numerous." It seems apt to describe Oppen's poetry as an 'austere lyricism'. Finnegan ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Who's never won? Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL Music. _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Opus40-01 Sat Jan 26 18:26:11 2008 From: Opus40-01 (TheOldMole) Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2008 18:26:11 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] The Odd Couple Message-ID: <479BC193.9010108@opus40.org> From Charles McGrath in the NY Times Book Review: T. S. Eliot and Ezra Pound were the ?Odd Couple? of 20th-century poetry, a most unlikely pair who between them rewrote the rules for everyone else. Eliot was Felix, of course: fussy, clerkish, conservative in both politics and religion, so somber that as a young man he sometimes dabbed his face with powder to make himself look even grayer. And Pound was Oscar: a yapper, provocateur and shameless self-promoter with a radical opinion on just about anything; he signed his name with a caricature of a gadfly and strode about London in the years before World War I wearing an earring, a sombrero and trousers made of green billiard cloth. -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ The moral is this: in American verse, The better you are, the pay is worse. --Corey Ford From mandolin Sun Jan 27 10:45:44 2008 From: mandolin (Michael Snider) Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2008 10:45:44 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Longenbach on Oppen In-Reply-To: <9ACEE754-1B53-47A0-800A-D2639D092FF8@mac.com> References: <8CA2D09009393B3-D90-615@webmail-de13.sysops.aol.com> <9ACEE754-1B53-47A0-800A-D2639D092FF8@mac.com> Message-ID: <6FE06EC8-ECAF-4DED-8F02-BE2EE26F7B7F@mac.com> Annie, James, David- Thanks for your responses. Perhaps I'll be with Oppen (and the rest of the Projectivists) like Eliot with Goethe -- one day mature enough to read them. But I Just Don't Get It. I don't even see how it's poetry rather than scattered prose--not that I want to open that can of worms here again. Again, thanks. Michael From elemenope_productions Sun Jan 27 16:41:47 2008 From: elemenope_productions (R Dillon) Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2008 21:41:47 +0000 Subject: [New-Poetry] TSE Seen by EP in Convex Mirror In-Reply-To: <200801271700.m0RH04oM022230@wiz.cath.vt.edu> References: <200801271700.m0RH04oM022230@wiz.cath.vt.edu> Message-ID: CAT NAP TSE was nicknamed by EP because he'd "doze" on Valerie Eliot's Victorian velvet chaise longue wearing his pin striped J. Press banker's suit, including vest with gold watch chain. Outside of the man: utter aplomb. Inside the man: hallucinatory dream. TSE how to play both sides of the lit'ry coin; That's why Ezra Pound called him "Possum." ======================================= (Source: Valerie Eliot's residence circa 1973, Harvard Street, Cambridge, Massachucetts.) RD _________________________________________________________________ Climb to the top of the charts!?Play the word scramble challenge with star power. http://club.live.com/star_shuffle.aspx?icid=starshuffle_wlmailtextlink_jan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames Sun Jan 27 19:28:48 2008 From: jforjames (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2008 19:28:48 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Longenbach on Oppen In-Reply-To: <6FE06EC8-ECAF-4DED-8F02-BE2EE26F7B7F@mac.com> References: <8CA2D09009393B3-D90-615@webmail-de13.sysops.aol.com> <9ACEE754-1B53-47A0-800A-D2639D092FF8@mac.com> <6FE06EC8-ECAF-4DED-8F02-BE2EE26F7B7F@mac.com> Message-ID: <8CA2F5BE29C7E3A-554-7B5@Webmail-mg19.sim.aol.com> There's not disputin' taste. But I'd love to read some Oppen like prose writers. Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: Michael Snider mandolin at mac.com . I don't even see how it's poetry rather than scattered prose--not that I want to open that can of worms here again.? ________________________________________________________________________ More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://webmail.aol.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames Sun Jan 27 20:13:33 2008 From: jforjames (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2008 20:13:33 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Kirsch Explains Contemporary Poetry Message-ID: <8CA2F6222B5CAAC-46C-5A5D@webmail-db07.sysops.aol.com> http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/01/27/RVEGU13JS.DTL&type=books The Modern Element Essays on Contemporary Poetry By Adam Kirsch NORTON; 352 PAGES; $25.95 Perhaps it takes a youngster, born 54 years after the publication of T.S. Eliot's "The Waste Land" in 1922, to revive the discussion of "the modern element" in poetry. Adam Kirsch would like to be not only a great critic but also a public one, and for me he resembles in his ambition no one so much as Edmund Wilson, another voracious, enthusiastic literary man who synthesized and moralized and expounded on books for as large an audience as he could gather in literarily apathetic America. In the midst of admiring the Polish writer Adam Zagajewski in his essay collection, Kirsch reflects, "Here (in the United States) poetry is such a minor, sidelined pursuit that its practitioners seldom even consider the possibility that their art has a duty to a larger cause. ... The moral crisis of Eastern Europe under Communism gave poetry an urgency and stature it can never have in the United States, where it is largely a hobby confined to writing workshops." ________________________________________________________________________ More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://webmail.aol.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mandolin Sun Jan 27 21:31:08 2008 From: mandolin (Michael Snider) Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2008 21:31:08 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Kirsch Explains Contemporary Poetry In-Reply-To: <8CA2F6222B5CAAC-46C-5A5D@webmail-db07.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CA2F6222B5CAAC-46C-5A5D@webmail-db07.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: I like Kirsch's critical work, too--and I Iike his poetry. I've got The Thousand Wells, but I haven't yet seen his new book Invasions On Jan 27, 2008, at 8:13 PM, JforJames at aol.com wrote: > > http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/01/27/RVEGU13JS.DTL&type=books > The Modern Element > Essays on Contemporary Poetry > By Adam Kirsch > NORTON; 352 PAGES; $25.95 > > Perhaps it takes a youngster, born 54 years after the publication of > T.S. Eliot's "The Waste Land" in 1922, to revive the discussion of > "the modern element" in poetry. Adam Kirsch would like to be not > only a great critic but also a public one, and for me he resembles > in his ambition no one so much as Edmund Wilson, another voracious, > enthusiastic literary man who synthesized and moralized and > expounded on books for as large an audience as he could gather in > literarily apathetic America. > From jorgensen_a Mon Jan 28 04:40:08 2008 From: jorgensen_a (Alexander Jorgensen) Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2008 01:40:08 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] ATTN: NEW OTOLITHS - VISPO - CHINA series In-Reply-To: <200801251700.m0PH05oM032708@wiz.cath.vt.edu> Message-ID: <177092.60217.qm@web54603.mail.re2.yahoo.com> http://the-otolith.blogspot.com/2007/12/alexander-jorgensen-from-china-series.html -- Tennessee Williams: "A vacuum is a hell of a lot better than some of the stuff that nature replaces it with." -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From elemenope_productions Mon Jan 28 14:58:51 2008 From: elemenope_productions (R Dillon) Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2008 19:58:51 +0000 Subject: [New-Poetry] 1. TSE Seen by EP in Convex Mirror (R Dillon) In-Reply-To: <200801281700.m0SH03oM002148@wiz.cath.vt.edu> References: <200801281700.m0SH03oM002148@wiz.cath.vt.edu> Message-ID: > CAT NAP> > TSE was nicknamed by EP because he'd "doze"> on Valerie Eliot's Victorian velvet chaise longue > > wearing his pin striped J. Press banker's suit,> including vest with gold watch chain.> > Outside of the man: utter aplomb.> Inside the man: hallucinatory dream.> > Eliot knew how to play both sides of the lit'ry coin;> That's why Ezra Pound called him "Possum."> > =======================================> > (Source: Valerie Eliot's residence circa 1973,> Harvard Street, Cambridge, Massachucetts.)> > RD> _________________________________________________________________ Connect and share in new ways with Windows Live. http://www.windowslive.com/share.html?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_Wave2_sharelife_012008 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames Mon Jan 28 18:18:56 2008 From: jforjames (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2008 18:18:56 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: The Shape of Disclosure: George Oppen Centennial Symposium In-Reply-To: <985078.19462.qm@web53210.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <985078.19462.qm@web53210.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <8CA301B49F5E2FC-E44-127B@mblk-d39.sysops.aol.com> From: Eric Hoffman To: Jackson Street Booksellers Sent: Mon, 28 Jan 2008 4:41 pm Subject: The Shape of Disclosure: George Oppen Centennial Symposium Tuesday, April 8, 3:00-9:00pm The Shape of Disclosure: George Oppen Centennial Symposium On the occasion of George Oppen's centennial and the publication of his Selected Prose, Daybooks, and Papers, poets and scholars gather to honor the life and work of this spare, powerful and original poet. Co-sponsored with Tribeca Performing Arts Center at BMCC and University of California Press. Funded in part by the New York Council for the Humanities. 3:00pm Panel: Biographical-Historical Continuum Moderated by Michael Heller Featuring Stephen Cope on Oppen's diaries and journals, Norman Finkelstein on the late poems, Eric Hoffman on Oppen?s political identity and Kristin Prevallet on Oppen's response to World War II. 5:00pm Panel: Literary-Philosophical Spectrum Moderated by Thom Donovan Featuring Romana Huk on Oppen's relationship to metaphysics and Judeo-Christian philosophy, Burt Kimmelman on Oppen and Heidegger, Peter O'Leary on Whitman's influence on Oppen and John Taggart on Oppen's poetry as "a process of thought." 7:30pm George Oppen Centennial Reading Stephen Cope, Thom Donovan, Norman Finkelstein, E. Tracy Grinnell, Michael Heller, Erica Hunt, Burt Kimmelman, Geoffrey O?Brien, Peter O?Leary, Kristin Prevallet, Hugh Seidman, Harvey Shapiro, Stacy Szymaszek & John Taggart George Oppen was born April 24, 1908 in New Rochelle, New York, and died in San Francisco in 1984. The winner of the Pulitzer Prize for Of Being Numerous (1968), Oppen was also the author of Discrete Series (1934), The Materials (1962), This in Which (1965) and Primitive (1978). @ Tribeca Performing Arts Center Borough of Manhattan Community College 199 Chambers Street $10/Free to Students and Poets House Members Audiences may attend individual events or the entire symposium Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. ________________________________________________________________________ More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://webmail.aol.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames Mon Jan 28 18:50:51 2008 From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2008 18:50:51 EST Subject: [New-Poetry] SPD in NYT Message-ID: From: neil at spdbooks.org [mailto:neil at spdbooks.org] Sent: Monday, January 28, 2008 1:47 PM Subject: SPD in the New York Times! Dear Reader, This is just a quick note to let you know that SPD was featured in this week's New York Times Sunday Book Review. Dwight Garner's Inside the List detailed SPD's top ten bestselling poetry title from December, and pointed readers to SPD's "friendly" website. To read the article, please visit www.nytimes.com/2008/01/27/books/review/27tbr.html?_r=1&oref=slogin (may require you to login to the New York Times website). To view the full December poetry bestseller list, please visit SPD's website at www.spdbooks.org/GENpoetrybestsellers.asp . Yours, Neil Alger Sales & Marketing Manager Small Press Distribution 510.524.1668 x304 neil at spdbooks.org For more information about SPD and its various programs, please visit www.spdbooks.org/GENabout.asp . -- If you do not want to receive any more newsletters, http://lists.spdbooks.org/?p=unsubscribe&uid=3d5f397af72caedf8c61eeb1379 7f7a7 To update your preferences and to unsubscribe visit http://lists.spdbooks.org/?p=preferences&uid=3d5f397af72caedf8c61eeb1379 7f7a7 Forward a Message to Someone http://lists.spdbooks.org/?p=forward&uid=3d5f397af72caedf8c61eeb13797f7a 7&mid=50 **************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape. http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Rsgwynn1 Mon Jan 28 18:56:59 2008 From: Rsgwynn1 (Rsgwynn1 at cs.com) Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2008 18:56:59 EST Subject: [New-Poetry] SPD in NYT Message-ID: I've known Lynn Chandhok for some years and am especially happy to see her on this list. www.nytimes.com/2008/01/27/books/review/27tbr.html?_r=1&oref=slogin -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mandolin Mon Jan 28 19:30:59 2008 From: mandolin (Michael Snider) Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2008 19:30:59 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Project Muse access sucks and is stupid In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Jan 28, 2008, at 6:56 PM, Rsgwynn1 at cs.com wrote: > I've known Lynn Chandhok for some years and am especially happy to > see her on this list. > > www.nytimes.com/2008/01/27/books/review/27tbr.html?_r=1&oref=slogin > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry I tied to look up some of Chandhok's poetry, and on the firt link returned by Google was stopped, not for the first time, by the fact that I'm not affiliated with a university. What the hell? Why cant they sell individual subscriptions? Why hide what are supposedly the most important literary (and other) discussions behind a firewall which keeps out ALMOST EVERYONE? Calmer now. A little. From JforJames Mon Jan 28 19:42:06 2008 From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2008 19:42:06 EST Subject: [New-Poetry] Project Muse access sucks and is stupid Message-ID: In a message dated 1/28/2008 7:31:32 PM Eastern Standard Time, mandolin at mac.com writes: I tied to look up some of Chandhok's poetry, and on the firt link returned by Google was stopped, not for the first time, by the fact that I'm not affiliated with a university. What the hell? Why cant they sell individual subscriptions? Why hide what are supposedly the most important literary (and other) discussions behind a firewall which keeps out ALMOST EVERYONE? Calmer now. A little. -- I've been stymied by the same thing. JSTOR is my nemesis. I'm sure this 'security' has to do with the hefty subscription prices of these specialty journals, but I was wondering if there is some kind of 'universal library card' or 'total access subscription' one could buy (at a reasonable price) that would let one thru into these secret scholarly sites. Do teachers have to pay for individual access? Or if you teach, do you get some kind of free pass? Finnegan **************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape. http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard Mon Jan 28 19:58:35 2008 From: halvard (Halvard Johnson) Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2008 18:58:35 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Project Muse access sucks and is stupid In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <73620F64-9101-45D4-AF99-13D3EF65963A@earthlink.net> Here's what's worked for me: Ask anyone you know who's currently teaching/working at a university to forward you whatever it is you want. Be a pest! Just do it! Send them the link. Hal "The true danger is when liberty is nibbled away, for expedients, and by parts." --Edmund Burke Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html On Jan 28, 2008, at 6:42 PM, JforJames at aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 1/28/2008 7:31:32 PM Eastern Standard Time, mandolin at mac.com > writes: > > I tied to look up some of Chandhok's poetry, and on the firt link > returned by Google was stopped, not for the first time, by the fact > that I'm not affiliated with a university. What the hell? Why cant > they sell individual subscriptions? Why hide what are supposedly the > most important literary (and other) discussions behind a firewall > which keeps out ALMOST EVERYONE? > > Calmer now. A little. > -- > I've been stymied by the same thing. JSTOR is my nemesis. I'm sure > this 'security' has to do with the hefty subscription prices of > these specialty journals, but I was wondering if there is some kind > of 'universal library card' or 'total access subscription' one could > buy (at a reasonable price) that would let one thru into these > secret scholarly sites. Do teachers have to pay for individual > access? Or if you teach, do you get some kind of free pass? > Finnegan > > > > Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape in the new year. > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mandolin Mon Jan 28 20:02:22 2008 From: mandolin (Michael Snider) Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2008 20:02:22 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Project Muse access sucks and is stupid In-Reply-To: <73620F64-9101-45D4-AF99-13D3EF65963A@earthlink.net> References: <73620F64-9101-45D4-AF99-13D3EF65963A@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <7E0842A2-5EE5-48F7-AFC0-EE006F2DE262@mac.com> And that, of course, is one reason it's stupid. They end up making no money when they could make a little. On Jan 28, 2008, at 7:58 PM, Halvard Johnson wrote: > Here's what's worked for me: Ask anyone you know who's currently > teaching/working at a university to forward you whatever it is you > want. Be a pest! Just do it! Send them the link. > > Hal > > "The true danger is when liberty is nibbled away, > for expedients, and by parts." > --Edmund Burke > > Halvard Johnson > ================ > halvard at earthlink.net > http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > http://www.hamiltonstone.org > http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html > > > > > On Jan 28, 2008, at 6:42 PM, JforJames at aol.com wrote: > >> In a message dated 1/28/2008 7:31:32 PM Eastern Standard Time, mandolin at mac.com >> writes: >> >> I tied to look up some of Chandhok's poetry, and on the firt link >> returned by Google was stopped, not for the first time, by the fact >> that I'm not affiliated with a university. What the hell? Why cant >> they sell individual subscriptions? Why hide what are supposedly the >> most important literary (and other) discussions behind a firewall >> which keeps out ALMOST EVERYONE? >> >> Calmer now. A little. >> -- >> I've been stymied by the same thing. JSTOR is my nemesis. I'm sure >> this 'security' has to do with the hefty subscription prices of >> these specialty journals, but I was wondering if there is some kind >> of 'universal library card' or 'total access subscription' one >> could buy (at a reasonable price) that would let one thru into >> these secret scholarly sites. Do teachers have to pay for >> individual access? Or if you teach, do you get some kind of free >> pass? >> Finnegan >> >> >> >> Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape in the new year. >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From Rsgwynn1 Mon Jan 28 21:34:53 2008 From: Rsgwynn1 (Rsgwynn1 at cs.com) Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2008 21:34:53 EST Subject: [New-Poetry] Project Muse access sucks and is stupid Message-ID: JSTOR subscriptions are paid by libraries, and anyone at a member institution gets access. Same thing applies to other databases such as Galenet. I think if you accessed these at a public library you could get connected. You might be able to do this remotely, but I don't know the details. Call your local library. Or get someone you know at a college/university to lend you his/her access number. Wish it wasn't so, but there we are . . . Sam -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From david.bircumshaw Tue Jan 29 18:43:23 2008 From: david.bircumshaw (David Bircumshaw) Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2008 23:43:23 +0000 Subject: [New-Poetry] Heidegger and poetry In-Reply-To: <8CA2D99BFD2BC73-CFC-1111@webmail-de11.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CA2D99BFD2BC73-CFC-1111@webmail-de11.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <479FBA1B.5060709@ntlworld.com> > the more widely you read, in fact, the clearer it becomes that our > poetry has a distinctive metaphysics, a set of principles or > intuitions held in common by poets as different as Seamus Heaney, > Charles Simic, and Billy Collins. I'm quite tickled by the notion of Seamus Heaney's muddy boots and Billy Collins' throwaway last cigarettes in company with Heidegger and metaphysics. Perhaps you could stretch a case for Simic, but it would have to be a pretty long-necked stretch. Now if every poet was Celan I guess at least a case for a poetry of absent metaphysics could be mounted, and of ambiguous meetings with Heidegger and a Metaphysics of No-Metaphysics in a Teutonic wood, but otherwise I'd be prone to say that ours is predominantly an age of the poets of a consumer society, indeed, of consumerist poetry, snacking compulsively on its junk. -- David Bircumshaw Website and A Chide's Alphabet http://homepage.ntlworld.com/david.bircumshaw/ The Animal Subsides http://www.arrowheadpress.co.uk/books/animal.html From jfq Tue Jan 29 19:27:37 2008 From: jfq (jfq at myuw.net) Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2008 16:27:37 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] Heidegger and poetry In-Reply-To: <479FBA1B.5060709@ntlworld.com> Message-ID: i was just going to respond and say that I didn't know Heaney Simic and Collins were all that different from eachother. but you have a point as well. On Tue, 29 Jan 2008, David Bircumshaw wrote: >> the more widely you read, in fact, the clearer it becomes that our poetry >> has a distinctive metaphysics, a set of principles or intuitions held in >> common by poets as different as Seamus Heaney, Charles Simic, and Billy >> Collins. > I'm quite tickled by the notion of Seamus Heaney's muddy boots and Billy > Collins' throwaway last cigarettes in company with Heidegger and metaphysics. > Perhaps you could stretch a case for Simic, but it would have to be a pretty > long-necked stretch. > > Now if every poet was Celan I guess at least a case for a poetry of absent > metaphysics could be mounted, and of ambiguous meetings with Heidegger and a > Metaphysics of No-Metaphysics in a Teutonic wood, but otherwise I'd be prone to > say that ours is predominantly an age of the poets of a consumer society, > indeed, of consumerist poetry, snacking compulsively on its junk. > > -- > > David Bircumshaw > Website and A Chide's Alphabet http://homepage.ntlworld.com/david.bircumshaw/ > The Animal Subsides http://www.arrowheadpress.co.uk/books/animal.html > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > From jforjames Tue Jan 29 21:12:00 2008 From: jforjames (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2008 21:12:00 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Heidegger and poetry In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <8CA30FCA19D5CB4-D1C-433C@MBLK-M19.sysops.aol.com> I don't have any trouble discriminating between the three: on style, typical subject or approach. But then?I read a lot.?And, David, how can poetry be consumerist when almost everyone agrees it's hard to it?give away? Even poets like this unlikely triumverate could only be said to 'sell well' by 'poetry standards'. Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: jfq at myuw.net Bcc: jforjames at aol.com Sent: Tue, 29 Jan 2008 7:27 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Heidegger and poetry i was just going to respond and say that I didn't know Heaney Simic and Collins were all that different from eachother. but you have a point as well.? ? On Tue, 29 Jan 2008, David Bircumshaw wrote:? ? >> the more widely you read, in fact, the clearer it becomes that our poetry >> has a distinctive metaphysics, a set of principles or intuitions held in >> common by poets as different as Seamus Heaney, Charles Simic, and Billy >> Collins.? > I'm quite tickled by the notion of Seamus Heaney's muddy boots and Billy > Collins' throwaway last cigarettes in company with Heidegger and metaphysics. > Perhaps you could stretch a case for Simic, but it would have to be a pretty > long-necked stretch.? >? > Now if every poet was Celan I guess at least a case for a poetry of absent > metaphysics could be mounted, and of ambiguous meetings with Heidegger and a > Metaphysics of No-Metaphysics in a Teutonic wood, but otherwise I'd be prone to > say that ours is predominantly an age of the poets of a consumer society, > indeed, of consumerist poetry, snacking compulsively on its junk.? >? > -- >? > David Bircumshaw? > Website and A Chide's Alphabet http://homepage.ntlworld.com/david.bircumshaw/? > The Animal Subsides http://www.arrowheadpress.co.uk/books/animal.html? >? > _______________________________________________? > New-Poetry mailing list? > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu? > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry? >? ? _______________________________________________? New-Poetry mailing list? New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu? http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry? ________________________________________________________________________ More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://webmail.aol.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman Tue Jan 29 21:48:19 2008 From: bobgrumman (Bob Grumman) Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2008 21:48:19 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Heidegger and poetry In-Reply-To: <8CA30FCA19D5CB4-D1C-433C@MBLK-M19.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CA30FCA19D5CB4-D1C-433C@MBLK-M19.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <479FE573.8080303@nut-n-but.net> jforjames at aol.com wrote: > I don't have any trouble discriminating between the three: on style, > typical subject or approach. But then I read a lot. And, David, how > can poetry be consumerist when almost everyone agrees it's hard to > it give away? Even poets like this unlikely triumverate could only be > said to 'sell well' by 'poetry standards'. > Finnegan > > I would say that the poet who writes what he thinks will go over with some public rather than what he thinks is the best poetry he's capable of is consumerist. I'm not sure who if any is consumerist. I think Collins writes what he thinks is the best he's capable of and there's a public for it. He's mainstream, which is different from consumerist, I thnk. --Bob G. > -----Original Message----- > From: jfq at myuw.net > Bcc: jforjames at aol.com > Sent: Tue, 29 Jan 2008 7:27 pm > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Heidegger and poetry > > i was just going to respond and say that I didn't know Heaney Simic > and Collins were all that different from eachother. but you have a > point as well. > > On Tue, 29 Jan 2008, David Bircumshaw wrote: > > >> the more widely you read, in fact, the clearer it becomes that our > poetry >> has a distinctive metaphysics, a set of principles or > intuitions held in >> common by poets as different as Seamus Heaney, > Charles Simic, and Billy >> Collins. > > I'm quite tickled by the notion of Seamus Heaney's muddy boots and > Billy > Collins' throwaway last cigarettes in company with Heidegger > and metaphysics. > Perhaps you could stretch a case for Simic, but it > would have to be a pretty > long-necked stretch. > > > > Now if every poet was Celan I guess at least a case for a poetry of > absent > metaphysics could be mounted, and of ambiguous meetings with > Heidegger and a > Metaphysics of No-Metaphysics in a Teutonic wood, > but otherwise I'd be prone to > say that ours is predominantly an age > of the poets of a consumer society, > indeed, of consumerist poetry, > snacking compulsively on its junk. > > > > -- > > > David Bircumshaw > > Website and A Chide's Alphabet > http://homepage.ntlworld.com/david.bircumshaw/ > > The Animal Subsides http://www.arrowheadpress.co.uk/books/animal.html > > > > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail > ! > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd Tue Jan 29 21:50:10 2008 From: grahamd (David Graham) Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2008 20:50:10 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Simollinsy Message-ID: <75959FCE-2D8A-496A-9CDC-944A13B4F4C8@ripon.edu> I'm with Finnegan. It's easy to say that Heaney, Simic, and Collins aren't very different from each other--just as Merle Haggard isn't that different from Johnny Cash or George Jones--a statement that makes perfect sense if you are basically unfamiliar with or hostile to country music generally. I regularly meet people who are, come to think of it. --------------------------------------- I don't have any trouble discriminating between the three: on style, typical subject or approach. But then?I read a lot.?And, David, how can poetry be consumerist when almost everyone agrees it's hard to it? give away? Even poets like this unlikely triumverate could only be said to 'sell well' by 'poetry standards'. Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: jfq at myuw.net Bcc: jforjames at aol.com Sent: Tue, 29 Jan 2008 7:27 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Heidegger and poetry i was just going to respond and say that I didn't know Heaney Simic and Collins were all that different from eachother. but you have a point as well.? ? ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/About%20Me.html Poetry Library: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames Tue Jan 29 22:23:10 2008 From: jforjames (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2008 22:23:10 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] ursprache is 2 Message-ID: <8CA310693270BB5-F84-2CB1@WEBMAIL-DG09.sim.aol.com> http://ursprache.blogspot.com/ Well, I've made it thru 2 years of blogging. Short entries & quotes, admittedly. But I've kept at it. So I guess there is nothing else to do but go on. Finnegan ________________________________________________________________________ More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://webmail.aol.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jfq Tue Jan 29 23:47:15 2008 From: jfq (Jason Quackenbush) Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2008 20:47:15 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] Adam Kirsch and Simollinsy In-Reply-To: <75959FCE-2D8A-496A-9CDC-944A13B4F4C8@ripon.edu> References: <75959FCE-2D8A-496A-9CDC-944A13B4F4C8@ripon.edu> Message-ID: Don't misunderstand me to be saying it's not possible to distinguish between the three. From my own point of view, hostile as I may be, I actually buy books by Simic and I don't hate Seamus Heaney although i won't spend money for him and his beowulf was a bit of a joke, and Billy Collins just makes me angry. But as a fan of country music, hell, as the former lead guitar player in a honky tonk band, I will still say that Merle Haggard isn't all that different from Johnny Cash or George Jones if you've also heard Iggy and the Stooges. They're not even all that different if you're at all familiar Billy Joel. And that's all just pop music. My point is that on the broad spectrum of contemporary poetry, selecting a range that starts with Simic and ends with Collins is pretty limited and makes the statement that precedes it seem pretty ill informed. By analogy the statement "[contemporary] music has a distinctive metaphysics, a set of intuitions and principles shared by artists as diverse as Dwight Yoakam, Willie Nelson, and Shania Twain" is just as idiotic as the one in that article. If a music critic said something like that, particularly right after a comment about how broad his listening is [kirsch:"The more widely you read, in fact, the clearer it becomes..."] he'd lose every informed reader he had before they read the rest of the paragraph. What makes me cringe about the contemporary poetry world is that you can make such a sweeping statement about "our poetry" and still be taken seriously by people who care about poetry and get such a statement published in one of the most venerable and widely read publications in the field. Say you can find a common set of intuitions in poets as diverse as mIEKAL aND, Anis Mojgani, and Ted Kooser and then back it up, then maybe you're in a position to talk about what this period is going to go down as being about in literary history. Of course what follows is pretty uninformed as well. the statement "For Heidegger, more than any other philosopher, looked to poetry as a model of what thinking should be." Wittgenstein, Heidegger's most important contemporary, once wrote "Philosophy ought only to be written as a form of poetry." Great philosophers of the nineteenth century like Nietzsche and Kierkegaarde and Emerson (quoted later in the piece, and given his important influence on Heidegger it's entirely possible is the root of the Heidegger account of poetry) all took poetry as a starting point in different ways. Even back to the very beginning of western philosophy you find extensive references and allusions to Homer in all of Plato's longer works and many of his shorter ones. And then in the rest of the essay comes his thesis, which as becomes clear is based on the narrow spectrum of mainstream poetry, is also based a reading of an early period Heidegger essay which, while I haven't read the particular essay myself, I highly doubt is correct. Much that is fundamental to Heidegger's philosophy is either misunderstood or ignored in the way Kirsch bungles his "poetry of earth/poetry of the world" distinction. To put it another way, this rubric does not sound like something that emanated from the Heidegger I'm familiar with who published Being and Time less than ten years prior. To then draw from this that "our poetry" is a poetry of earth, given to the poet being a neutral observer, is certainly true of the brand of poetry that gets published in Poetry Magazine, but I can write you a list as long as my arm of good contemporary poets who write "poetry of the world" as Kirsch has it, which to me seems an indication of precisely how widely Kirsch HASN'T read, and which makes his narrow "Simic/Heaney/Collins" spectrum of "our poetry" seem rather telling. For me, that article did little other than reconfirm the reasons I don't take that particular periodical or its editor very seriously. -Jason Quackenbush On Jan 29, 2008, at 6:50 PM, David Graham wrote: > I'm with Finnegan. > > It's easy to say that Heaney, Simic, and Collins aren't very > different from each other--just as Merle Haggard isn't that > different from Johnny Cash or George Jones--a statement that makes > perfect sense if you are basically unfamiliar with or hostile to > country music generally. I regularly meet people who are, come to > think of it. > > > --------------------------------------- > I don't have any trouble discriminating between the three: on > style, typical subject or approach. But then?I read a lot.?And, > David, how can poetry be consumerist when almost everyone agrees > it's hard to it?give away? Even poets like this unlikely > triumverate could only be said to 'sell well' by 'poetry standards'. > Finnegan > > > -----Original Message----- > From: jfq at myuw.net > Bcc: jforjames at aol.com > Sent: Tue, 29 Jan 2008 7:27 pm > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Heidegger and poetry > > > i was just going to respond and say that I didn't know Heaney Simic > and Collins were all that different from eachother. but you have a > point as well.? > ? > > ======================================== > David Graham > grahamd at ripon.edu > > Home Page: > http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/About%20Me.html > > Poetry Library: > http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html > ========================================== > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jfq Wed Jan 30 00:03:29 2008 From: jfq (Jason Quackenbush) Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2008 21:03:29 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] Project Muse access sucks and is stupid In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <51A04259-55DD-405E-A418-C2CFDAA14E28@myuw.net> Last time I was on campus, which admittedly has been a while, the University of Washington Libraries allowed access to JSTOR on their public research terminal kiosks although they may have restricted that access now. I imagine lots of other state run universities are the same way. -Jason Quackenbush On Jan 28, 2008, at 6:34 PM, Rsgwynn1 at cs.com wrote: > JSTOR subscriptions are paid by libraries, and anyone at a member > institution gets access. Same thing applies to other databases > such as Galenet. I think if you accessed these at a public library > you could get connected. You might be able to do this remotely, > but I don't know the details. Call your local library. Or get > someone you know at a college/university to lend you his/her access > number. > > Wish it wasn't so, but there we are . . . > > Sam > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From david.bircumshaw Wed Jan 30 01:44:36 2008 From: david.bircumshaw (David Bircumshaw) Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2008 06:44:36 +0000 Subject: [New-Poetry] Heidegger and poetry In-Reply-To: <8CA30FCA19D5CB4-D1C-433C@MBLK-M19.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CA30FCA19D5CB4-D1C-433C@MBLK-M19.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <47A01CD4.7030307@ntlworld.com> > And, David, how can poetry be consumerist when almost everyone agrees > it's hard to it give away? Even poets like this unlikely triumverate > could only be said to 'sell well' by 'poetry standards'. I was thinking in terms of a poetry which has certain features that are materialist qua metaphysics but not a materialism that is consciously philosophic but rather shaped by, limited by being the product of a consumerist society. That doesn't mean it'll sell well on the wider market. But a self-satisfied poetry, that does not admit its own precariousness (unlike, say, Celan's, which really doesn't confront metaphysics, or rather the absence of metaphysics). This is very generalised, James, but I'd have to write an essay-length post to effectively argue the point. You know, it is a tour that would have to begin in William Carlos Williams' icebox, stand on the sidewalk with Frank O'Hara the day Marilyn died, grumble in its small beer with Philip Larkin's pension, and shadow-box post-modernly with John Ashbery while discretely collecting in the Palace of Art. I could go on. On a slant to this, one of the most disappointing things I notice, when talking to younger poets or would-be poets, is their conscious or implicit equation of poetry and 'success'. By this I do not mean they think of poetry as the road to mega-riches, but that they do conceive of 'success' at poetry as a route to a certain level of social standing that does imply a fairly comfortable lifestyle. The aspiration leaks through their writing, in its tone, ambit, ambition and register. Best Dave -- David Bircumshaw Website and A Chide's Alphabet http://homepage.ntlworld.com/david.bircumshaw/ The Animal Subsides http://www.arrowheadpress.co.uk/books/animal.html From david.bircumshaw Wed Jan 30 04:45:17 2008 From: david.bircumshaw (David Bircumshaw) Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2008 09:45:17 +0000 Subject: [New-Poetry] Heidegger and poetry In-Reply-To: <47A01CD4.7030307@ntlworld.com> References: <8CA30FCA19D5CB4-D1C-433C@MBLK-M19.sysops.aol.com> <47A01CD4.7030307@ntlworld.com> Message-ID: <47A0472D.7030706@ntlworld.com> > stand on the sidewalk with Frank O'Hara the day Marilyn died, should of course be 'the day Lady died' but an interesting slip in context nevertheless, yes? -- David Bircumshaw Website and A Chide's Alphabet http://homepage.ntlworld.com/david.bircumshaw/ The Animal Subsides http://www.arrowheadpress.co.uk/books/animal.html From anny.ballardini Wed Jan 30 05:06:14 2008 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2008 11:06:14 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] =?iso-8859-1?q?=22Remembering_and_Forgetting=3A_Mem?= =?iso-8859-1?q?ory_in_Images_and_Texts=22=2C_Universit=E4t_Bielefe?= =?iso-8859-1?q?ld=2C_Germany=2C_June_13-14=2C_2008=2E?= Message-ID: > From: Wilfried Raussert [mailto:wilfried.raussert at uni-bielefeld.de] > Sent: Monday, January 28, 2008 4:40 PM Fakult?t f?r Linguistik und Literaturwissenschaft Universit?t Bielefeld, American and Inter-American Studies, Anglistik Call for Papers International Conference for Doctoral Students International Postgraduate Forum Universit?t Bielefeld. June 13th-14th, 2008 Room D3 121 Universit?t Bielefeld Remembering and Forgetting: Memory in Images and Texts Keynote Prof. Maryemma Graham / University of Kansas "Toni Morrison: Cultural Memory and the New World Novel" Memory is one of the most important ways in which we construct individual and collective identities. Memory constantly surrounds us in texts, film, photography and architecture, and it has become a culturally contested praxis in the academy and beyond. During the conference we intend to investigate processes of how memory is constructed, how memory is transmitted in cultural and political discourse, and how remembering and forgetting shape our private and public lives. We will therefore pursue an interdisciplinary approach and welcome presentations from literary and cultural studies, film and media studies, linguistics and history. Please send your abstract (200-300 words) to stephen.joyce at uni-bielefeld.de and julia.andres at uni-bielefeld.de by March 15th, 2008. We support travel from abroad (200 Euro per speaker). Organizer: Prof. Dr. Wilfried Raussert Fakult?t f?r Linguistik und Literaturwissenschaft Literatur und Kultur Nordamerikas Telefon: (0521) 106-3649 Raum: C4-238 Sekretariat: (0521) 106-3517 Telefax: (0521) 106-2996 E-Mail: wilfried.raussert at uni-bielefeld.de -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames Wed Jan 30 09:03:09 2008 From: jforjames (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2008 09:03:09 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] new Li--Young Lee Message-ID: <8CA315FFA6BCC5A-1548-1DE@FWM-M34.sysops.aol.com> http://wwnorton.com/catalog/winter08/006542.htm BEHIND MY EYES Poems by Li-Young Lee Combining sensitivity and eloquence with a broad appeal, Li-Young Lee walks in the footsteps of -- ________________________________________________________________________ More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://webmail.aol.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From skip Wed Jan 30 10:28:54 2008 From: skip (Skip Fox) Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2008 09:28:54 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Heidegger and poetry In-Reply-To: <8CA30FCA19D5CB4-D1C-433C@MBLK-M19.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <003c01c86354$d8c17960$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> They seem fairly similar to me in the level of interest they evoke in me. It's not nil, but it's not much. Actually Heaney is the most compelling and Collins the least, but all three are significantly beneath my interest in hundreds of others. -----Original Message----- From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of jforjames at aol.com Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2008 8:12 PM To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Heidegger and poetry I don't have any trouble discriminating between the three: on style, typical subject or approach. But then I read a lot. And, David, how can poetry be consumerist when almost everyone agrees it's hard to it give away? Even poets like this unlikely triumverate could only be said to 'sell well' by 'poetry standards'. Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: jfq at myuw.net Bcc: jforjames at aol.com Sent: Tue, 29 Jan 2008 7:27 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Heidegger and poetry i was just going to respond and say that I didn't know Heaney Simic and Collins were all that different from eachother. but you have a point as well. On Tue, 29 Jan 2008, David Bircumshaw wrote: >> the more widely you read, in fact, the clearer it becomes that our poetry >> has a distinctive metaphysics, a set of principles or intuitions held in >> common by poets as different as Seamus Heaney, Charles Simic, and Billy >> Collins. > I'm quite tickled by the notion of Seamus Heaney's muddy boots and Billy > Collins' throwaway last cigarettes in company with Heidegger and metaphysics. > Perhaps you could stretch a case for Simic, but it would have to be a pretty > long-necked stretch. > > Now if every poet was Celan I guess at least a case for a poetry of absent > metaphysics could be mounted, and of ambiguous meetings with Heidegger and a > Metaphysics of No-Metaphysics in a Teutonic wood, but otherwise I'd be prone to > say that ours is predominantly an age of the poets of a consumer society, > indeed, of consumerist poetry, snacking compulsively on its junk. > > -- > > David Bircumshaw > Website and A Chide's Alphabet http://homepage.ntlworld.com/david.bircumshaw/ > The Animal Subsides http://www.arrowheadpress.co.uk/books/animal.html > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _____ More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard Wed Jan 30 10:53:46 2008 From: halvard (Halvard Johnson) Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2008 09:53:46 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Heidegger and poetry In-Reply-To: <47A01CD4.7030307@ntlworld.com> References: <8CA30FCA19D5CB4-D1C-433C@MBLK-M19.sysops.aol.com> <47A01CD4.7030307@ntlworld.com> Message-ID: <66170B64-8BDE-40E3-8426-57ADAB3EFD3E@earthlink.net> On Jan 30, 2008, at 12:44 AM, David Bircumshaw wrote: > I could go on. On a slant to this, one of the most disappointing > things I notice, when talking to younger poets or would-be poets, is > their conscious or implicit equation of poetry and 'success'. By > this I do not mean they think of poetry as the road to mega-riches, > but that they do conceive of 'success' at poetry as a route to a > certain level of social standing that does imply a fairly > comfortable lifestyle. The aspiration leaks through their writing, > in its tone, ambit, ambition and register. > > Best > > Dave And there are older, even established, poets who have achieved sinecures of various kinds, usually academic, who guard their "success" by allowing their publishers to dictate where they may and may not publish their work, where they may read and not read. I'd name a couple names, but, hey, I'm mortal too. Hal "What does a poet need an unlisted number for?" --George Costanza Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html From mandolin Wed Jan 30 12:21:53 2008 From: mandolin (Michael Snider) Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2008 12:21:53 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Heidegger and poetry In-Reply-To: <003c01c86354$d8c17960$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> References: <003c01c86354$d8c17960$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> Message-ID: On Jan 30, 2008, at 10:28 AM, Skip Fox wrote: > significantly beneath my interest in hundreds of others. I'm always looking to broaden my horizons, so I wonder if you're willing to name a few from about mid-pack. Simic, Heaney, and Collins aren't in my Top 10, either, but I buy at least some of their books and I'd be hard-pressed to name 50. let alone hundreds, of living poets whose work I'd give money for. For my part, there are some on this list I prefer to S, H, & C. Off- list--without ranking them either against each other or against the threesome, here are a few whose work I've recently bought: Alicia Stallings, Wendy Cope, James Fenton, Paul Muldoon, Tony Barnstone, Glyn Maxwell, Fred Turner, Kevin Young, Pete Fairchild, Kim Addonizio, Beth Gylys, Marilyn Nelson, John Whitworth ... BTW: has anyon visted Big Think? I went there when Salon presented some video of Billy Collins early this week The link is here: http://www.salon.com/ent/video_dog/big_think/2008/01/28/bt_collins/index.html Collins' main Big think page is here: http://www.bigthink.com/user/billy-collins From anny.ballardini Wed Jan 30 16:33:44 2008 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2008 22:33:44 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Heidegger and poetry In-Reply-To: References: <003c01c86354$d8c17960$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> Message-ID: <7CACB203EA664673A590F880EA376472@AnnyPC> listening to Collins' - quite interesting, thanks From: "Michael Snider" Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2008 6:21 PM > > On Jan 30, 2008, at 10:28 AM, Skip Fox wrote: > >> significantly beneath my interest in hundreds of others. > > I'm always looking to broaden my horizons, so I wonder if you're willing > to name a few from about mid-pack. Simic, Heaney, and Collins aren't in > my Top 10, either, but I buy at least some of their books and I'd be > hard-pressed to name 50. let alone hundreds, of living poets whose work > I'd give money for. > > For my part, there are some on this list I prefer to S, H, & C. Off- > list--without ranking them either against each other or against the > threesome, here are a few whose work I've recently bought: Alicia > Stallings, Wendy Cope, James Fenton, Paul Muldoon, Tony Barnstone, Glyn > Maxwell, Fred Turner, Kevin Young, Pete Fairchild, Kim Addonizio, Beth > Gylys, Marilyn Nelson, John Whitworth ... > > BTW: has anyon visted Big Think? I went there when Salon presented some > video of Billy Collins early this week The link is here: > > > http://www.salon.com/ent/video_dog/big_think/2008/01/28/bt_collins/index.html > > Collins' main Big think page is here: > > http://www.bigthink.com/user/billy-collins > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > From skip Wed Jan 30 17:00:16 2008 From: skip (Skip Fox) Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2008 16:00:16 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Heidegger and poetry In-Reply-To: <7CACB203EA664673A590F880EA376472@AnnyPC> Message-ID: <000001c8638b$851578c0$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> Black Mountain poets, New York Schools, Beat poets, 90% of poets in _Postmodern American Poetry_. Over 50% of the poets from BlazeVox, moria, Big Bridge, Tarpaulin Sky, etc. etc. Probably 35-50% of the major poets publishing in literary magazines represented in Selby's List http://www.selbyslist.com/ I wish I had time to be more exact, but I don't. At least not right now. skip -----Original Message----- From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Anny Ballardini Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2008 3:34 PM To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Heidegger and poetry listening to Collins' - quite interesting, thanks From: "Michael Snider" Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2008 6:21 PM > > On Jan 30, 2008, at 10:28 AM, Skip Fox wrote: > >> significantly beneath my interest in hundreds of others. > > I'm always looking to broaden my horizons, so I wonder if you're willing > to name a few from about mid-pack. Simic, Heaney, and Collins aren't in > my Top 10, either, but I buy at least some of their books and I'd be > hard-pressed to name 50. let alone hundreds, of living poets whose work > I'd give money for. > > For my part, there are some on this list I prefer to S, H, & C. Off- > list--without ranking them either against each other or against the > threesome, here are a few whose work I've recently bought: Alicia > Stallings, Wendy Cope, James Fenton, Paul Muldoon, Tony Barnstone, Glyn > Maxwell, Fred Turner, Kevin Young, Pete Fairchild, Kim Addonizio, Beth > Gylys, Marilyn Nelson, John Whitworth ... > > BTW: has anyon visted Big Think? I went there when Salon presented some > video of Billy Collins early this week The link is here: > > > http://www.salon.com/ent/video_dog/big_think/2008/01/28/bt_collins/index.htm l > > Collins' main Big think page is here: > > http://www.bigthink.com/user/billy-collins > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From anny.ballardini Wed Jan 30 17:40:37 2008 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2008 23:40:37 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] the phrontistery In-Reply-To: <000001c8638b$851578c0$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> References: <000001c8638b$851578c0$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> Message-ID: http://phrontistery.info/ihlstart.html Gr phrontisterion from phrontistes a thinker, from phroneein to think -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames Wed Jan 30 17:58:45 2008 From: jforjames (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2008 17:58:45 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] WorldPo: Israel, Rachel Tzvia Back Message-ID: <8CA31AACD3EC0E8-828-1B49@Webmail-mg01.sim.aol.com> http://www.forward.com/articles/12571/ A Poet of Israel?s Pain, And Its Hope Poetry By Alexa Bryn Wed. Jan 30, 2008 On Ruins & Return By Rachel Tzvia Back Shearsman Books, 104 pages, $15. It is written in the Talmud that after the destruction of the Second Temple, Rabbi Akiva and three prominent rabbis saw a fox scavenging through the Holy of Holies. Though the other rabbis wept, Akiva began to laugh, reminding his colleagues of Zechariah?s prophecy that one day, Jewish men, women and children will return to the streets of Jerusalem. Like Akiva, Israeli poet Rachel Tzvia Back has not abandoned hope. ________________________________________________________________________ More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://webmail.aol.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames Wed Jan 30 18:02:28 2008 From: jforjames (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2008 18:02:28 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetry Foundation Letter Message-ID: <8CA31AB52583E35-828-1BA2@Webmail-mg01.sim.aol.com> POETRY FOUNDATION THE YEAR IN REVIEW JANUARY 2008 Ninety-six years ago, Poetry's founding editor, Harriet Monroe, articulated the magazine's now-famous Open Door policy. It continues to be the guiding legacy for Poetry and is also the primary principle informing all the programs and activities of the Poetry Foundation. It bears repeating here: The Open Door will be the policy of this magazine?may the great poet we are looking for never find it shut, or half-shut, against his ample genius! To this end the editors hope to keep free of entangling alliances with any single class or school. They desire to print the best English verse which is being written today, regardless of where, by whom, or under what theory of art it is written. One of the best ways to open doors is through partnerships. To that end, the Foundation has collaborated with many other nonprofit and cultural institutions since it began operations four years ago. The beauty of a successful poetry partnership is that the resources of each partner support and amplify those of the other in their mutual dedication to the art form. Recently we counted up these collaborations and were surprised to find that our partners number more than 40 different national and local academic and cultural institutions. The collective effect of all of the Foundation's activities in 2007?and here we thank our partners?was to place poems in front of 10 million people. Fundamental to these endeavors are the hundreds of individual poets, writers, and literary scholars who contribute to our growing family of programs. From the pages of Poetry; to the poets who write for our blog, Harriet; to our television, podcast, and radio presenters; to the lecturers, panelists, and readers at our live events: these and many other gifted individuals are responsible for poetry's growing presence in American culture today. The Foundation's aim is to increase that presence in both breadth and depth. Last year our partnership with the Library of Congress and its Office of the Poet Laureate sponsored a series of first-ever joint readings with the US and UK poets laureate in Chicago, Washington DC, and London, around a thematic program called Poetry Across the Atlantic. In keeping with this international theme, the April issue of Poetry once again was devoted to poetry in translation, while the September issue included a portfolio of contemporary poetry from India, and December featured a collection of Italian poetry. Recognizing that poetry occurs in all corners of the culture, the Poetry Foundation has this past year cohosted readings in conjunction with the publication of McSweeney's Book of Poets Picking Poets, that publisher's first foray into poetry. It also staged a widely praised experimental theatrical production of Frank Bidart's "The Third Hour of the Night" in Chicago, and put on the ever-expanding Chicago Printers' Ball, featuring more than 90 local literary organizations in a monthlong festival of the printed word. An alliance of the Foundation with the Art Institute of Chicago and the Chicago Symphony Orchestra is celebrating, over the course of a year, how American poets, musicians, and visual artists have influenced one another. Our events have featured Eavan Boland at Poetry Day, a reading with four poets from Cave Canem, a panel at the Chicago Humanities Festival on writers' relationships to the environment, and lectures by critics Marjorie Perloff and Helen Vendler. Continuing Poetry's long history of giving awards, the Foundation annually presents a family of poetry prizes celebrating both established and new voices. The Pegasus Awards include partnerships with poetry publishers, including the Library of America and Graywolf Press, who publish books by our Neglected Masters and Emily Dickinson winners, respectively. Award recipients in 2007 include Lucille Clifton for the Ruth Lilly Poetry Prize; Anne Stevenson for the Neglected Masters Award; Herbert Leibowitz of Parnassus for the Randall Jarrell Award in Criticism; Brian Culhane for the Emily Dickinson First Book Award; and John Surowiecki for our new Verse Drama Prize. Surowiecki's winning drama, My Nose and Me: (A TragedyLite or TragiDelight in 33 Scenes), will be staged in New York and Chicago in 2008. Three years ago the Foundation's partnership with the Library of Congress launched American Life in Poetry, a syndicated weekly column of poems selected by former poet laureate, Ted Kooser and published by the Foundation with the University of Nebraska, Lincoln. That column now reaches more than four million newspaper readers each week, and the program is being expanded to offer a free poetry syndication service to newspapers featuring book reviews, op-eds, and articles on poets and poetry. In addition to continuing a series of broadcasts on The NewsHour with Jim Lehrer exploring the role of poetry in society, the Foundation is also developing video projects with HBO, WGBH/Boston, and the University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee. Those collaborations include a children's television special; a series of short poetry features to air on public television stations; and a cutting-edge effort to bring poetry to new audiences through video technology in the nation's transit systems. The common goal of these projects is to add a moment of introspection, wonder?even revelation?to the life of a harried commuter, a TV surfer, or a young child who has yet to encounter poetry. Our research confirms that a positive experience with poetry early in life is the best way to create a lifelong reader of poetry. That has prompted the Poetry Foundation to develop programs aimed at both young adults and children. Now in its fourth year, our collaboration with the NEA, the acclaimed Poetry Out Loud competition, reached more than 175,000 high school students in 2007. A national recitation contest designed to return great poetry to the classroom, the project annually awards more than $100,000 in scholarship prizes. Jack Prelutsky, appointed the nation's inaugural Children's Poet Laureate by the Foundation, has made classroom visits and public appearances to raise the visibility of children's poetry across the country. His contributions have ranged from a reading for 400 schoolchildren in Chicago to a standing-room-only presentation at the National Book Festival on the Mall in Washington DC. Prelutsky has also written a series of essays for the Foundation's website recommending his favorite children's poets. We are delighted to report that in its first year, the Foundation website, poetryfoundation.org, received a prestigious Webby Award for being a significant, comprehensive online resource for poetry. Our site now features content from every new issue of Poetry and an archive of 6,000 poems by more than 600 classic and contemporary poets, all freely downloadable. It's also an online poetry newspaper featuring journalism, a poetry best-seller list, reviews of events, and several podcasts, one of which (Poetry Off the Shelf) is now distributed by NPR. We are building an audio archive that will, over the next three years, include historic recordings by 125 essential American poets (selected by former poet laureate, Donald Hall in collaboration with UK Poet Laureate Andrew Motion's Poetry Archive), as well as recordings by numerous leading contemporary poets. In addition, the website is piloting collaborative efforts with the Columbia School of Journalism and the Pulitzer Foundation for the Arts. The Poetry Foundation is a young organization, and most of its programs are less than three years old. Two important new initiatives are just getting started. In order to serve the intellectual and critical dimensions of poetry, the Foundation has established the Harriet Monroe Poetry Institute. The Institute is a collaborative forum that will bring together leading scholars, poets, translators, publishers, and thinkers from outside the poetry world to address issues of importance to poetry. The work of the Institute will emphasize extensive preparation and systematic follow-through on findings and recommendations. One could think of the Institute as a "think tank," an Aspen Institute writ very small, with a single focus on poetry. In fact, the Foundation has agreed to partner with the Aspen Institute for the inaugural year of the Poetry Institute's programs. Its first 12 months will start with a call for ideas and concerns,* followed by identification of issues and research, which will culminate in a conference to be held in Aspen in the spring of 2009. Finally, the Foundation has purchased land and embarked on the building of a major new center for poetry in Chicago. The space will house the Foundation's offices, archive, and library but also, we hope, will become a destination for visitors from all over the country. John Ronan Architects of Chicago will design the building, and we expect to open the newest of these Open Doors in 2010. Sincerely, John Barr President * In its initial call for ideas and concerns, the Harriet Monroe Poetry Institute is asking these questions: (1) What are the most pressing needs of poetry and the poetry community? (2) How can the delivery of poems from writers to readers be improved? (3) What hinders the discovery, circulation, and celebration of poems in our culture? (4) In what ways are poetry and the poetry community vital and thriving? If you have specific recommendations, we invite you to e-mail us at HMPI at poetryfoundation.org by February 22, 2008. We are eager to hear from you. ________________________________________________________________________ More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://webmail.aol.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames Wed Jan 30 19:01:45 2008 From: jforjames (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2008 19:01:45 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Heidegger and poetry In-Reply-To: <003c01c86354$d8c17960$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> Message-ID: <8CA31B39A58D16B-6C4-27C0@mblk-d40.sysops.aol.com> Skip, I certainly understand that the threey may not be?your cup of tea. But not being able to tell them apart with a representative set of poems at hand is a different matter.?? Jason explained his comment, and a bit more.?The three as a representative grouping of contemporary poetry is not going to work for anyone except those who do all the poetry reading at Borders or B&N. Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: Skip Fox Bcc: jforjames at aol.com Sent: Wed, 30 Jan 2008 10:28 am Subject: RE: [New-Poetry] Heidegger and poetry They seem fairly similar to me in the level of interest they evoke in me. It?s not nil, but it?s not much. Actually Heaney is the most compelling and Collins the least, but all three are significantly beneath my interest in hundreds of others. ? -----Original Message----- From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of jforjames at aol.com Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2008 8:12 PM To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Heidegger and poetry ? I don't have any trouble discriminating between the three: on style, typical subject or approach. But then?I read a lot.?And, David, how can poetry be consumerist when almost everyone agrees it's hard to it?give away? Even poets like this unlikely triumverate could only be said to 'sell well' by 'poetry standards'. Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: jfq at myuw.net Bcc: jforjames at aol.com Sent: Tue, 29 Jan 2008 7:27 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Heidegger and poetry i was just going to respond and say that I didn't know Heaney Simic and Collins were all that different from eachother. but you have a point as well.? ? On Tue, 29 Jan 2008, David Bircumshaw wrote:? ? >> the more widely you read, in fact, the clearer it becomes that our poetry >> has a distinctive metaphysics, a set of principles or intuitions held in >> common by poets as different as Seamus Heaney, Charles Simic, and Billy >> Collins.? > I'm quite tickled by the notion of Seamus Heaney's muddy boots and Billy > Collins' throwaway last cigarettes in company with Heidegger and metaphysics. > Perhaps you could stretch a case for Simic, but it would have to be a pretty > long-necked stretch.? >? > Now if every poet was Celan I guess at least a case for a poetry of absent > metaphysics could be mounted, and of ambiguous meetings with Heidegger and a > Metaphysics of No-Metaphysics in a Teutonic wood, but otherwise I'd be prone to > say that ours is predominantly an age of the poets of a consumer society, > indeed, of consumerist poetry, snacking compulsively on its junk.? >? > -- >? > David Bircumshaw? > Website and A Chide's Alphabet http://homepage.ntlworld.com/david.bircumshaw/? > The Animal Subsides http://www.arrowheadpress.co.uk/books/animal.html? >? > _______________________________________________? > New-Poetry mailing list? > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu? > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry? >? ? _______________________________________________? New-Poetry mailing list? New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu? http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry? More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail! _______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry ________________________________________________________________________ More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://webmail.aol.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jfq Wed Jan 30 19:20:50 2008 From: jfq (jfq at myuw.net) Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2008 16:20:50 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetry Foundation Letter In-Reply-To: <8CA31AB52583E35-828-1BA2@Webmail-mg01.sim.aol.com> Message-ID: "The Open Door will be the policy of this magazine?may the great poet we are looking for never find it shut, or half-shut, against his ample genius! To this end the editors hope to keep free of entangling alliances with any single class or school. They desire to print the best English verse which is being written today, regardless of where, by whom, or under what theory of art it is written." I wonder if anyone on the list actually believes this is true of Poetry magazine as it is currently run. Just how open is Christian Wiman's door? yt, JQ From Opus40-01 Wed Jan 30 19:26:08 2008 From: Opus40-01 (TheOldMole) Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2008 19:26:08 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetry Foundation Letter In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <47A115A0.8010503@opus40.org> How open is it supposed to be? There's always a doorkeeper of taste and judgment, and that doorkeeper may have wildly different standards than one's own. jfq at myuw.net wrote: > "The Open Door will be the policy of this magazine?may the great poet > we are looking for never find it shut, or half-shut, against his ample > genius! To this end the editors hope to keep free of entangling > alliances with any single class or school. They desire to print the > best English verse which is being written today, regardless of where, > by whom, or under what theory of art it is written." > > I wonder if anyone on the list actually believes this is true of > Poetry magazine as it is currently run. Just how open is Christian > Wiman's door? > > > yt, > JQ > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ The moral is this: in American verse, The better you are, the pay is worse. --Corey Ford From jfq Wed Jan 30 19:41:19 2008 From: jfq (jfq at myuw.net) Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2008 16:41:19 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetry Foundation Letter In-Reply-To: <47A115A0.8010503@opus40.org> Message-ID: I just think the Poetry aesthetic seems pretty narrow for a magazine that's bragging about an open door policy that pays no regard to what theory of art the poet subscribes to. Have they ever published any visual poetry? any cowboy poetry? any language poetry? like them or not, all those movements are significant and ought to be represented in a magazine that has the attitude claimed in that statement. On Wed, 30 Jan 2008, TheOldMole wrote: > How open is it supposed to be? There's always a doorkeeper of taste and > judgment, and that doorkeeper may have wildly different standards than one's > own. > > > jfq at myuw.net wrote: >> "The Open Door will be the policy of this magazine?may the great poet we >> are looking for never find it shut, or half-shut, against his ample genius! >> To this end the editors hope to keep free of entangling alliances with any >> single class or school. They desire to print the best English verse which is >> being written today, regardless of where, by whom, or under what theory of >> art it is written." >> >> I wonder if anyone on the list actually believes this is true of Poetry >> magazine as it is currently run. Just how open is Christian Wiman's door? >> >> >> yt, >> JQ >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> > > -- > Tad Richards > http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ > http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ > > The moral is this: in American verse, > The better you are, the pay is worse. > --Corey Ford > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > From mandolin Wed Jan 30 19:53:23 2008 From: mandolin (Michael Snider) Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2008 19:53:23 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetry Foundation Letter In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <134C6DDF-56DC-4FEA-886F-A2FCC7C7F3CD@mac.com> On Jan 30, 2008, at 7:41 PM, jfq at myuw.net wrote: > Have they ever published any visual poetry? any cowboy poetry? any > language poetry? I can't attest to cowboy poetry, but certainly they've published visual and language poetry (or at least poery by people sometomes called Language Poets, including Charles Berstein), the latter very recently From jforjames Wed Jan 30 20:06:27 2008 From: jforjames (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2008 20:06:27 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Adam Kirsch and Simollinsy In-Reply-To: References: <75959FCE-2D8A-496A-9CDC-944A13B4F4C8@ripon.edu> Message-ID: <8CA31BCA43C71D1-6C4-2BDF@mblk-d40.sysops.aol.com> Jason, I wouldn't say I'm a big fan of Kirsch's criticism/reviews, but I do think he's doing good work getting reviews and criticism published in high-visibility places. Certainly, as I said to Skip, I'd agree that Heaney-Simic-Collins (all very different in many ways, which was my point) certainly don't cover the waterfront of contemporary poetry. On the philosophy-poetry nexus, I tend to agree with Kirsch about Heidegger's important position. Wittgenstein certainly speaks to poets in many ways, but in his oblique way. Kirsch?could have mentioned Schopenhauer, Bergson, Cassier, Bachelard, Langer, etc. He chose Heidegger and I can't fault him for that. His attention to Heidegger, and?Heidegger's intense attention?to Van Gogh's painting is best part of the essay. The rest is a serires of reaches. But that's what essays are all about, the reach. Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: Jason Quackenbush Bcc: jforjames at aol.com Sent: Tue, 29 Jan 2008 11:47 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Adam Kirsch and Simollinsy Don't misunderstand me to be saying it's not possible to distinguish between the three. From my own point of view, hostile as I may be, I actually buy books by Simic and I don't ?hate Seamus Heaney although i won't spend money for him and his beowulf was a bit of a joke, and Billy Collins just makes me angry. But as a fan of country music, hell, as the former lead guitar player in a honky tonk band, I will still say that Merle Haggard isn't all that different from Johnny Cash or George Jones if you've also heard Iggy and the Stooges. They're not even all that different if you're at all familiar Billy Joel. And that's all just pop music. My point is that on the broad spectrum of contemporary poetry, selecting a range that starts with Simic and ends with Collins is pretty limited and makes the statement that precedes it seem pretty ill informed. By analogy the statement "[contemporary] music has a distinctive metaphysics, a set of intuitions and principles shared by artists as diverse as Dwight Yoakam, Willie Nelson, and Shania Twain" is just as idiotic as the one in that article. If a music critic said something like that, particularly right after a comment about how broad his listening is [kirsch:"The more widely you read, in fact, the clearer it becomes..."]?he'd lose every informed reader he had before they read the rest of the paragraph. What makes me cringe about the contemporary poetry world is that you can make such a sweeping statement about "our poetry" and still be taken seriously by people who care about poetry and get such a statement published in one of the most venerable and widely read publications in the field. Say you can find a common set of intuitions in poets as diverse as mIEKAL aND, Anis Mojgani, and Ted Kooser and then back it up, then maybe you're in a position to talk about what this period is going to go down as being about in literary history.? Of course what follows is pretty uninformed as well. ?the statement "For Heidegger, more than any other philosopher, looked to poetry as a model of what thinking should be." Wittgenstein, Heidegger's most important contemporary, once wrote "Philosophy ought only to be written as a form of poetry." Great philosophers of the nineteenth century like Nietzsche and Kierkegaarde ?and Emerson (quoted later in the piece, and given his important influence on Heidegger it's entirely possible is the root of the Heidegger account of poetry) all took poetry as a starting point in different ways. Even back to the very beginning of western philosophy you find extensive references and allusions to Homer in all of Plato's longer works and many of his shorter ones. ? And then in the rest of the essay comes his thesis, which as becomes clear is based on the narrow spectrum of mainstream poetry, is also based a reading of an early period Heidegger essay which, while I haven't read the particular essay myself, I highly doubt is correct. Much that is fundamental to Heidegger's philosophy is either misunderstood or ignored in the way Kirsch bungles his "poetry of earth/poetry of the world" distinction. To put it another way, this rubric does not sound like something that emanated from the Heidegger I'm familiar with who published Being and Time less than ten years prior. To then draw from this that "our poetry" is a poetry of earth, given to the poet being a neutral observer, is certainly true of the brand of poetry that gets published in Poetry Magazine, but I can write you a list as long as my arm of good contemporary poets who write "poetry of the world" as Kirsch has it, which to me seems an indication of precisely how widely Kirsch HASN'T read, and which makes his narrow "Simic/Heaney/Collins" spectrum of "our poetry" seem rather telling. For me, that article did little other than reconfirm the reasons I don't take that particular periodical or its editor very seriously. -Jason Quackenbush On Jan 29, 2008, at 6:50 PM, David Graham wrote: I'm with Finnegan. ? It's easy to say that Heaney, Simic, and Collins aren't very different from each other--just as Merle Haggard isn't that different from Johnny Cash or George Jones--a statement that makes perfect sense if you are basically unfamiliar with or hostile to country music generally. ?I regularly meet people who are, come to think of it. --------------------------------------- I don't have any trouble discriminating between the three: on style, typical subject or approach. But then?I read a lot.?And, David, how can poetry be consumerist when almost everyone agrees it's hard to it?give away? Even poets like this unlikely triumverate could only be said to 'sell well' by 'poetry standards'. Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: jfq at myuw.net Bcc: jforjames at aol.com Sent: Tue, 29 Jan 2008 7:27 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Heidegger and poetry i was just going to respond and say that I didn't know Heaney Simic and Collins were all that different from eachother. but you have a point as well.? ? ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/About%20Me.html Poetry Library: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry = _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry ________________________________________________________________________ More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://webmail.aol.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jfq Wed Jan 30 20:13:57 2008 From: jfq (jfq at myuw.net) Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2008 17:13:57 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetry Foundation Letter In-Reply-To: <134C6DDF-56DC-4FEA-886F-A2FCC7C7F3CD@mac.com> Message-ID: they've published rae armentrout in the last couple of years too, and maybe i'm too given to hyperbole for my own good, but perhaps more cautiously stated, even that sort of poet, which isn't all that edgy anymore, is more of an exception than the rule for the sort of thing poetry publishes. Pick up any given issue and you're much more likely to find a certain kind of poetry than another certain kind of poetry, and in almost all cases you're most likely to see people who are very established and well known poets. Which is to say, I think it's a little bit rich for poetry to be fronting like they're taking a lot of risks on fringe geniuses. On Wed, 30 Jan 2008, Michael Snider wrote: > > On Jan 30, 2008, at 7:41 PM, jfq at myuw.net wrote: > >> Have they ever published any visual poetry? any cowboy poetry? any language >> poetry? > > > I can't attest to cowboy poetry, but certainly they've published visual and > language poetry (or at least poery by people sometomes called Language Poets, > including Charles Berstein), the latter very recently > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > From bobgrumman Wed Jan 30 20:13:58 2008 From: bobgrumman (Bob Grumman) Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2008 20:13:58 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetry Foundation Letter In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <47A120D6.3090102@nut-n-but.net> jfq at myuw.net wrote: > I just think the Poetry aesthetic seems pretty narrow for a magazine > that's bragging about an open door policy that pays no regard to what > theory of art the poet subscribes to. Have they ever published any > visual poetry? any cowboy poetry? any language poetry? like them or > not, all those movements are significant and ought to be represented > in a magazine that has the attitude claimed in that statement. Exactly. Poetry's door is open only to the kind of poetry it likes, that which does nothing that wasn't widely done in poetry fifty years or more ago, which is certainly its prerogative. But it's dishonest for Poetry to claim it has any kind of open door policy. --Bob G. > > > On Wed, 30 Jan 2008, TheOldMole wrote: > >> How open is it supposed to be? There's always a doorkeeper of taste >> and judgment, and that doorkeeper may have wildly different standards >> than one's own. >> >> >> jfq at myuw.net wrote: >>> "The Open Door will be the policy of this magazine?may the great >>> poet we are looking for never find it shut, or half-shut, against >>> his ample genius! To this end the editors hope to keep free of >>> entangling alliances with any single class or school. They desire to >>> print the best English verse which is being written today, >>> regardless of where, by whom, or under what theory of art it is >>> written." >>> >>> I wonder if anyone on the list actually believes this is true of >>> Poetry magazine as it is currently run. Just how open is Christian >>> Wiman's door? >>> >>> >>> yt, >>> JQ >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> New-Poetry mailing list >>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>> >> >> -- >> Tad Richards >> http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ >> http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ >> >> The moral is this: in American verse, >> The better you are, the pay is worse. >> --Corey Ford >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > From jforjames Wed Jan 30 20:23:23 2008 From: jforjames (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2008 20:23:23 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetry Foundation Letter In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <8CA31BF01828811-6C4-2CDE@mblk-d40.sysops.aol.com> I don't know if it's all Wimans' doing but Poetry has become broader in its view than I can ever remember it...a glance through the contents of recent issues shows?that: ?http://poetrymagazine.org/magazine/archive.html The reviews are more engaging and more provocative (I'm sure intentionally so). Kenny Goldsmith was one of their bloggers on the Harriet blog. I don't know what more they could do without?publishing everyone all at once. Their website is?a kind of dense star sucking everything into its gravitational field. Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: jfq at myuw.net Bcc: jforjames at aol.com Sent: Wed, 30 Jan 2008 7:41 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Poetry Foundation Letter I just think the Poetry aesthetic seems pretty narrow for a magazine that's bragging about an open door policy that pays no regard to what theory of art the poet subscribes to. Have they ever published any visual poetry? any cowboy poetry? any language poetry? like them or not, all those movements are significant and ought to be represented in a magazine that has the attitude claimed in that statement.? ? On Wed, 30 Jan 2008, TheOldMole wrote:? ? > How open is it supposed to be? There's always a doorkeeper of taste and > judgment, and that doorkeeper may have wildly different standards than one's > own.? >? >? > jfq at myuw.net wrote:? >> "The Open Door will be the policy of this magazine?may the great poet we >> are looking for never find it shut, or half-shut, against his ample genius! >> To this end the editors hope to keep free of entangling alliances with any >> single class or school. They desire to print the best English verse which is >> being written today, regardless of where, by whom, or under what theory of >> art it is written."? >> >> I wonder if anyone on the list actually believes this is true of Poetry >> magazine as it is currently run. Just how open is Christian Wiman's door?? >> >> >> yt,? >> JQ? >> >> >> _______________________________________________? >> New-Poetry mailing list? >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu? >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry? >> >? > -- > Tad Richards? > http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/? > http://opusforty.blogspot.com/? >? > The moral is this: in American verse,? > The better you are, the pay is worse.? > --Corey Ford? >? > _______________________________________________? > New-Poetry mailing list? > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu? > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry? >? ? ? _______________________________________________? New-Poetry mailing list? New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu? http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry? ________________________________________________________________________ More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://webmail.aol.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman Wed Jan 30 20:23:13 2008 From: bobgrumman (Bob Grumman) Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2008 20:23:13 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetry Foundation Letter In-Reply-To: <134C6DDF-56DC-4FEA-886F-A2FCC7C7F3CD@mac.com> References: <134C6DDF-56DC-4FEA-886F-A2FCC7C7F3CD@mac.com> Message-ID: <47A12301.6010008@nut-n-but.net> Poetry has published visual poetry!? Whose? I never heard they did. Oh, John Hollander's? His shaped poems are visual poems, but certainly not what anyone would call contemporary visual poems (except literally). And he is a certified "real" (non-visual formal) poet. Has Poetry published visual poems by poets not certified members of Wilshburia? I doubt it. And sure, a few super-certified language poets like Bernstein have to get in. --Bob G. From jfq Wed Jan 30 20:24:01 2008 From: jfq (jfq at myuw.net) Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2008 17:24:01 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] Adam Kirsch and Simollinsy In-Reply-To: <8CA31BCA43C71D1-6C4-2BDF@mblk-d40.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: I think the point is that criticism ought to reach a little bit better. If one is interested in a good example of applying 20th Century philosophy to poetry, I don't think you could do much better than Marjorie Perloff's "Wittgenstein's Ladder." Here you find a careful, thoughtful critic spending real time trying to understand what it is that the philosopher thought, and then tracing the influence of that thought through real works by people where there is a definite lineage to be shown. While on the other hand, the connection between Heidegger and the poets named by Kirsch seem to me to be very tenuous and almost coincdental, even if you take kirsch's reading of heidegger to be accurate when to me it appears to bear all the hallmarks of a non-specialist being sloppy and inconsiderate in a field that's not his own. So what we have here is an essay that 1, claims to speak about all of contemporary poetry from the wide experience of the critic but plainly fails to do that and also calls into question how wide that experience is 2, claims on the basis of a dubious reading single minor paper a sweeping influence on mainstream poetry by a major 20th century philosopher, but fails to do that and 3, Goes on to condemn in the same terms of the former misreading all poetry that is not of the type lauded in this minor essay by a major philosopher. That to me is not the good criticism, just self-aggrandizing dilettantism. On Wed, 30 Jan 2008 jforjames at aol.com wrote: > > Jason, I wouldn't say I'm a big fan of Kirsch's criticism/reviews, but I do think he's doing good work getting reviews and criticism published in high-visibility places. Certainly, as I said to Skip, I'd agree that Heaney-Simic-Collins (all very different in many ways, which was my point) certainly don't cover the waterfront of contemporary poetry. > > > On the philosophy-poetry nexus, I tend to agree with Kirsch about Heidegger's important position. Wittgenstein certainly speaks to poets in many ways, but in his oblique way. Kirsch?could have mentioned Schopenhauer, Bergson, Cassier, Bachelard, Langer, etc. He chose Heidegger and I can't fault him for that. His attention to Heidegger, and?Heidegger's intense attention?to Van Gogh's painting is best part of the essay. The rest is a serires of reaches. But that's what essays are all about, the reach. > > Finnegan > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Jason Quackenbush > Bcc: jforjames at aol.com > Sent: Tue, 29 Jan 2008 11:47 pm > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Adam Kirsch and Simollinsy > > > > Don't misunderstand me to be saying it's not possible to distinguish between the three. From my own point of view, hostile as I may be, I actually buy books by Simic and I don't ?hate Seamus Heaney although i won't spend money for him and his beowulf was a bit of a joke, and Billy Collins just makes me angry. But as a fan of country music, hell, as the former lead guitar player in a honky tonk band, I will still say that Merle Haggard isn't all that different from Johnny Cash or George Jones if you've also heard Iggy and the Stooges. They're not even all that different if you're at all familiar Billy Joel. And that's all just pop music. My point is that on the broad spectrum of contemporary poetry, selecting a range that starts with Simic and ends with Collins is pretty limited and makes the statement that precedes it seem pretty ill informed. By analogy the statement "[contemporary] music has a distinctive metaphysics, a set of intuitions and principles shared by artists ! as! > diverse as Dwight Yoakam, Willie Nelson, and Shania Twain" is just as idiotic as the one in that article. If a music critic said something like that, particularly right after a comment about how broad his listening is [kirsch:"The more widely you read, in fact, the clearer it becomes..."]?he'd lose every informed reader he had before they read the rest of the paragraph. What makes me cringe about the contemporary poetry world is that you can make such a sweeping statement about "our poetry" and still be taken seriously by people who care about poetry and get such a statement published in one of the most venerable and widely read publications in the field. Say you can find a common set of intuitions in poets as diverse as mIEKAL aND, Anis Mojgani, and Ted Kooser and then back it up, then maybe you're in a position to talk about what this period is going to go down as being about in literary history.? > > > > Of course what follows is pretty uninformed as well. ?the statement "For Heidegger, more than any other philosopher, looked to poetry as a model of what thinking should be." Wittgenstein, Heidegger's most important contemporary, once wrote "Philosophy ought only to be written as a form of poetry." Great philosophers of the nineteenth century like Nietzsche and Kierkegaarde ?and Emerson (quoted later in the piece, and given his important influence on Heidegger it's entirely possible is the root of the Heidegger account of poetry) all took poetry as a starting point in different ways. Even back to the very beginning of western philosophy you find extensive references and allusions to Homer in all of Plato's longer works and many of his shorter ones. ? And then in the rest of the essay comes his thesis, which as becomes clear is based on the narrow spectrum of mainstream poetry, is also based a reading of an early period Heidegger essay which, while I haven't read the particu! la! > r essay myself, I highly doubt is correct. Much that is fundamental to Heidegger's philosophy is either misunderstood or ignored in the way Kirsch bungles his "poetry of earth/poetry of the world" distinction. To put it another way, this rubric does not sound like something that emanated from the Heidegger I'm familiar with who published Being and Time less than ten years prior. To then draw from this that "our poetry" is a poetry of earth, given to the poet being a neutral observer, is certainly true of the brand of poetry that gets published in Poetry Magazine, but I can write you a list as long as my arm of good contemporary poets who write "poetry of the world" as Kirsch has it, which to me seems an indication of precisely how widely Kirsch HASN'T read, and which makes his narrow "Simic/Heaney/Collins" spectrum of "our poetry" seem rather telling. > > > > > For me, that article did little other than reconfirm the reasons I don't take that particular periodical or its editor very seriously. > > > > > -Jason Quackenbush > > > > > > > On Jan 29, 2008, at 6:50 PM, David Graham wrote: > > > I'm with Finnegan. ? > > > > It's easy to say that Heaney, Simic, and Collins aren't very different from each other--just as Merle Haggard isn't that different from Johnny Cash or George Jones--a statement that makes perfect sense if you are basically unfamiliar with or hostile to country music generally. ?I regularly meet people who are, come to think of it. > > > > > > > > --------------------------------------- > > > I don't have any trouble discriminating between the three: on style, typical subject or approach. But then?I read a lot.?And, David, how can poetry be consumerist when almost everyone agrees it's hard to it?give away? Even poets like this unlikely triumverate could only be said to 'sell well' by 'poetry standards'. > > Finnegan > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: jfq at myuw.net > > Bcc: jforjames at aol.com > > Sent: Tue, 29 Jan 2008 7:27 pm > > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Heidegger and poetry > > > > > > > > i was just going to respond and say that I didn't know Heaney Simic and Collins were all that different from eachother. but you have a point as well.? > > ? > > > > > > ======================================== > > David Graham > > grahamd at ripon.edu > > > > > Home Page: > > http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/About%20Me.html > > > > > Poetry Library: > > http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html > > ========================================== > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > > = > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > ________________________________________________________________________ > More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://webmail.aol.com > From jforjames Wed Jan 30 20:35:02 2008 From: jforjames (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2008 20:35:02 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Adam Kirsch and Simollinsy In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <8CA31C0A257147B-6C4-2D9D@mblk-d40.sysops.aol.com> ?a dubious reading single minor paper -- You're not referring to "The Origin of a Work of Art" are you? It's in my edition of Basic Writings. Finnegan ________________________________________________________________________ More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://webmail.aol.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames Wed Jan 30 21:03:32 2008 From: jforjames (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2008 21:03:32 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Adam Kirsch and Simollinsy In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <8CA31C49D569FCF-6C4-2EFA@mblk-d40.sysops.aol.com> I think that diletantism cuts both ways. We're all diletantes to some degree. Wittgenstein was a diletante when it came to poetry. FR Leavis will tell you that. Perloff, I've read. She's good. She's not a philosopher. So she's a diletante at philosophy. So am I. Though I'm pretty good at risk management for financial institutions. Few can be good at everything Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: jfq at myuw.net Bcc: jforjames at aol.com Sent: Wed, 30 Jan 2008 8:24 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Adam Kirsch and Simollinsy I think the point is that criticism ought to reach a little bit better. If one is interested in a good example of applying 20th Century philosophy to poetry, I don't think you could do much better than Marjorie Perloff's "Wittgenstein's Ladder." Here you find a careful, thoughtful critic spending real time trying to understand what it is that the philosopher thought, and then tracing the influence of that thought through real works by people where there is a definite lineage to be shown. While on the other hand, the connection between Heidegger and the poets named by Kirsch seem to me to be very tenuous and almost coincdental, even if you take kirsch's reading of heidegger to be accurate when to me it appears to bear all the hallmarks of a non-specialist being sloppy and inconsiderate in a field that's not his own.? ? So what we have here is an essay that 1, claims to speak about all of contemporary poetry from the wide experience of the critic but plainly fails to do that and also calls into question how wide that experience is 2, claims on the basis of a dubious reading single minor paper a sweeping influence on mainstream poetry by a major 20th century philosopher, but fails to do that and 3, Goes on to condemn in the same terms of the former misreading all poetry that is not of the type lauded in this minor essay by a major philosopher.? ? That to me is not the good criticism, just self-aggrandizing dilettantism.? ? ________________________________________________________________________ More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://webmail.aol.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Rsgwynn1 Wed Jan 30 22:18:02 2008 From: Rsgwynn1 (Rsgwynn1 at cs.com) Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2008 22:18:02 EST Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetry Foundation Letter Message-ID: In a message dated 1/30/2008 6:21:10 PM Central Standard Time, jfq at myuw.net writes: > I wonder if anyone on the list actually believes this is true of Poetry > magazine as it is currently run. Just how open is Christian Wiman's door? > It let me through, after being shut there out from 1983-2006. Open enough for Sam anyway. Complaining about Poetry's contents has been a standard grouse since about 1912, and I surely complained about them during those long, barren 23 years. Sam -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Rsgwynn1 Wed Jan 30 22:23:30 2008 From: Rsgwynn1 (Rsgwynn1 at cs.com) Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2008 22:23:30 EST Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetry Foundation Letter Message-ID: In a message dated 1/30/2008 7:23:58 PM Central Standard Time, bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net writes: > Poetry has published visual poetry!? Whose? I never heard they did. > Oh, John Hollander's? His shaped poems are visual poems, but certainly > not what anyone would call contemporary visual poems (except > literally). And he is a certified "real" (non-visual formal) poet. Has > Poetry published visual poems by poets not certified members of > Wilshburia? I doubt it. And sure, a few super-certified language poets > like Bernstein have to get in. > > --Bob G. I can't say for sure, but I guess they must have published May Swenson and, surely, cummings. I know, Bob, that this doesn't cover the wide spectrum of visual poetry, but you have to admit that it's not quite in the mainstream. How many visual poems show up in textbooks and anthologies. I have included visual poems by Swenson, cumming, Fred Chappell, and others on my own anthologies. But I'm surely not going to give them equal space in a teaching anthology that aims to be eclectic. Sam -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ciccariello Wed Jan 30 23:27:31 2008 From: ciccariello (Peter Ciccariello) Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2008 23:27:31 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Open door as poetic object Message-ID: <8f3fdbad0801302027s4e12005aw1849f165c4fe7475@mail.gmail.com> Open door as poetic object - Peter Ciccariello http://invisiblenotes.blogspot.com/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From c288 Thu Jan 31 00:15:50 2008 From: c288 (Charmaine Pettit) Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2008 21:15:50 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] Simollinsy In-Reply-To: <75959FCE-2D8A-496A-9CDC-944A13B4F4C8@ripon.edu> References: <75959FCE-2D8A-496A-9CDC-944A13B4F4C8@ripon.edu> Message-ID: country being following a long strand of sentimental and almost down to depressing and where with a little happy mixed in to feel a bit like the songs aren't all that way is what I tend to see the trend Charmaine Pettit To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.eduFrom: grahamd at ripon.eduDate: Tue, 29 Jan 2008 20:50:10 -0600Subject: [New-Poetry] SimollinsyI'm with Finnegan. It's easy to say that Heaney, Simic, and Collins aren't very different from each other--just as Merle Haggard isn't that different from Johnny Cash or George Jones--a statement that makes perfect sense if you are basically unfamiliar with or hostile to country music generally. I regularly meet people who are, come to think of it. --------------------------------------- I don't have any trouble discriminating between the three: on style, typical subject or approach. But then?I read a lot.?And, David, how can poetry be consumerist when almost everyone agrees it's hard to it?give away? Even poets like this unlikely triumverate could only be said to 'sell well' by 'poetry standards'. Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: jfq at myuw.net Bcc: jforjames at aol.com Sent: Tue, 29 Jan 2008 7:27 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Heidegger and poetry i was just going to respond and say that I didn't know Heaney Simic and Collins were all that different from eachother. but you have a point as well.? ? ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/About%20Me.html Poetry Library: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From c288 Thu Jan 31 00:33:38 2008 From: c288 (Charmaine Pettit) Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2008 21:33:38 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] Project Muse access sucks and is stupid In-Reply-To: <7E0842A2-5EE5-48F7-AFC0-EE006F2DE262@mac.com> References: <73620F64-9101-45D4-AF99-13D3EF65963A@earthlink.net> <7E0842A2-5EE5-48F7-AFC0-EE006F2DE262@mac.com> Message-ID: A tidbit as well is I know that the only two locations in the US to lookup on micro fische (sp?) census history ...is available for searching geneology I believe are DC and WA state. My father searched (for free) at WA state University Charmaine Pettit> From: mandolin at mac.com> To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Project Muse access sucks and is stupid> Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2008 20:02:22 -0500> > And that, of course, is one reason it's stupid. They end up making no > money when they could make a little.> > On Jan 28, 2008, at 7:58 PM, Halvard Johnson wrote:> > > Here's what's worked for me: Ask anyone you know who's currently> > teaching/working at a university to forward you whatever it is you> > want. Be a pest! Just do it! Send them the link.> >> > Hal> >> > "The true danger is when liberty is nibbled away,> > for expedients, and by parts."> > --Edmund Burke> >> > Halvard Johnson> > ================> > halvard at earthlink.net> > http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html> > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com> > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com> > http://www.hamiltonstone.org> > http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html> >> >> >> >> > On Jan 28, 2008, at 6:42 PM, JforJames at aol.com wrote:> >> >> In a message dated 1/28/2008 7:31:32 PM Eastern Standard Time, mandolin at mac.com > >> writes:> >>> >> I tied to look up some of Chandhok's poetry, and on the firt link> >> returned by Google was stopped, not for the first time, by the fact> >> that I'm not affiliated with a university. What the hell? Why cant> >> they sell individual subscriptions? Why hide what are supposedly the> >> most important literary (and other) discussions behind a firewall> >> which keeps out ALMOST EVERYONE?> >>> >> Calmer now. A little.> >> --> >> I've been stymied by the same thing. JSTOR is my nemesis. I'm sure > >> this 'security' has to do with the hefty subscription prices of > >> these specialty journals, but I was wondering if there is some kind > >> of 'universal library card' or 'total access subscription' one > >> could buy (at a reasonable price) that would let one thru into > >> these secret scholarly sites. Do teachers have to pay for > >> individual access? Or if you teach, do you get some kind of free > >> pass?> >> Finnegan> >>> >>> >>> >> Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape in the new year.> >> _______________________________________________> >> New-Poetry mailing list> >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu> >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry> >> > _______________________________________________> > New-Poetry mailing list> > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu> > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry> > _______________________________________________> New-Poetry mailing list> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames Thu Jan 31 08:39:25 2008 From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2008 08:39:25 EST Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Poets House Upcoming Events: February 2008 Message-ID: In a message dated 1/31/2008 1:17:07 AM Eastern Standard Time, announce at poetshouse.org writes: Poets House Upcoming Events: February 2008 2/2: At the AWP Writers? Conference ? A Tribute to Gerald Stern 2/4: "Poetry Westchester!" begins with Hettie Jones at Mount Pleasant Public Library 2/8: String Talks: A Reading and Performance by Anne Carson (at the Skirball Center) 2/21: Alice Quinn: Twenty Years of Poetry at The New Yorker (at New School University) For those attending the 2008 AWP Writer?s Conference Visit us at the AWP Bookfair: Booth No. 79 Join us as we kick off our Spring 2008 season at this year?s AWP Writers? Conference in New York City. If you?re missing the Poets House Reading Room (currently closed in advance of our move) we invite you to stop by our booth throughout the conference?where you'll receive a warm Poets House greeting from our staff members and fellow poets. "Tribute to Gerald Stern" on Saturday, February 2 at 1:30pm Jorie Graham, Edward Hirsch, Li-Young Lee, Anne Marie Macari, Ira Sadoff, Alan Soldofsky and other poets and friends will gather to pay homage to the humane and humorous master of "the everyday and the ineffable," Gerald Stern. One of the pre-eminent poets of his generation, Stern will also give a brief reading from his work. Co-sponsored by Poets House and the Creative Writing Program at San Jose State University. @ The 2008 AWP Conference in New York City Sheraton New York Hotel & Towers Metropolitan Ballroom East, 2nd Floor 811 7th Avenue on 53rd Street Conference registration is required. Monday, February 4, 4:30pm POETRY WESTCHESTER! Begins with Teen Writing Workshop at Mount Pleasant Public Library Poetry Westchester! ? a new Westchester-wide initiative offering free writing workshops, poetry readings and discussions ? is funded by the Westchester Library System. Poetry Westchester! begins with a Teen Poetry Writing Workshop led by poet Hettie Jones on Monday, February 4, at 4:30pm at Mount Pleasant Public Library. The workshop continues on February 11, 25, and March 3. Hettie Jones will act as "poet in residence" in Mount Pleasant, where she'll lead workshops for adults and teens and give a talk on "The Beat Poets." Joining her in a distinguished roster will be award-winning poets Edward Hirsch, speaking about How to Read a Poem and Fall in Love With Poetry (the title of his best-selling book) and reading from his latest poetry collection Special Orders, and Tom Sleigh, the author of Space Walk, who has been hailed by Nobel Prize winner Seamus Heaney as a poet of "lyric absolution." For a complete schedule of Poetry Westchester! programs in Irvington , Hastings , Katonah, Larchmont, Mount Pleasant, Pelham, Scarsdale and White Plains, visit _www.poetshouse.org/librariespitbr.htm_ (http://poetshouse.cmail5.com/l/330596/dilj1yjd/www.poetshouse.org/librariespitbr.htm) Friday, February 8, 7:00pm String Talks: A Reading and Performance by Anne Carson A multimedia performance piece involving a reading of short talks accompanied by red string, a dancer or two and audiovisual elements. With the collaboration of Robert Currie (randomizer) and Mark Bibbins (introduction and backup vocals). Co-sponsored by Poets House, the Academy of American Poets, the NYU Creative Writing Program and the Poetry Society of America. Anne Carson is a poet, essayist and translator, as well as a professor of Classics and comparative literature at the University of Michigan. Her works include Autobiography of Red, Decreation and Glass, Irony and God. @ Skirball Center for Performing Arts New York University 566 LaGuardia Place (Washington Square South) Free tickets are available at the Skirball Center box office beginning February 5. For information, call (212) 992-8484 Thursday, February 21st, 7:00pm Alice Quinn: Twenty Years of Poetry at The New Yorker with Henri Cole, Deborah Garrison, Eamon Grennan, Yusef Komunyakaa, Vijay Sheshadri, Jean Valentine & Matthew Zapruder A reading in honor of Alice Quinn's service to the poetry community, with readings and anecdotes by authors and friends. Co-sponsored by Poets House, the Academy of American Poets, the New School Graduate Writing Program and the Poetry Society of America. Alice Quinn is the Executive Director of the Poetry Society of America and the editor of Edgar Allan Poe & The Juke-Box, a volume of Elizabeth Bishop's uncollected poems, drafts and fragments. @ The Theresa Lang Center, Arnold Hall New School University 55 West 13th Street, 2nd Floor Admission free Also of Interest: Sunday, February 3, 2:00pm >From Here Look Home: A Poetry Reading in Honor of Rudy Burckhardt and Yvonne Jacquette Throughout their careers, artists Rudy Burckhardt and Yvonne Jacquette had unusually strong ties to the New York poetry world. Poet David Lehman will introduce a special poetry reading in their honor, featuring Jacob Burckhardt, Jordan Davis, Joanna Fuhrman, Yvonne Jacquette, Vincent Katz, Ange Mlinko, Charles North, Ron Padgett, Simon Pettet, Wang Ping, Daniel Shapiro, David Shapiro, Anne Waldman, Lewis Warsh, Trevor Winkfield and Bill Zavatsky. @ The Museum of the City of New York 1220 Fifth Avenue at 104th Street Admission free, with museum admission Reservations required. Call (212) 534-1672, x3395 JOIN NOW AND RECEIVE FREE ADMISSION TO POETS HOUSE EVENTS: To become a Poets House Member or to give the gift of Membership to a family member or friend, visit _www.poetshouse.org/join.htm_ (http://poetshouse.cmail5.com/l/330596/dilj1yjd/www.poetshouse.org/join.htm) . We look forward to welcoming you as a new member of our growing community of writers, readers, teachers, parents and poetry-lovers from around the nation and worldwide. This email was sent to jforjames at aol.com. You can unsubscribe _here_ (http://poetshouse.cmail5.com/u/330596/dilj1yjd/) Replies to this message cannot be read. To notify us of an address change, please email _update at poetshouse.org_ (mailto:update at poetshouse.org?subject=update) and specify "Update" in the subject line. **************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape. http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pfoley2 Thu Jan 31 10:58:10 2008 From: pfoley2 (pat foley) Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2008 10:58:10 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetry Foundation Letter In-Reply-To: References: <47A115A0.8010503@opus40.org> Message-ID: <20080131155810.GA2971@sparky.launchmodem.com> On Wed, Jan 30, 2008 at 04:41:19PM -0800, jfq at myuw.net wrote: > I just think the Poetry aesthetic seems pretty narrow for a magazine that's > bragging about an open door policy that pays no regard to what theory of > art the poet subscribes to. Have they ever published any visual poetry? any > cowboy poetry? any language poetry? like them or not, all those movements > are significant and ought to be represented in a magazine that has the > attitude claimed in that statement. I can sympathize with your view, I really can, but I think it's a disaster. You've not only confused writing-and-publishing -- "literature" as a going concern we might say -- with literary _history_, but then you've gone and confused that with politics. In the halls of government we expect "significant movements" to "represented", but I don't think an artist should ever be caught dead thinking that way. That said, there's been a lot of talk about whether a few more-or-less mainstream poets are more-or-less similar, and then layered on that some talk about which schools of poetry get represented where, as if we could confidently talk about siimilarity there. It seems to me that over time almost every "school" turns out to be a loose bunch of friends who had far less in common aesthetically than earlier critics (usually including themselves) thought. Pat From roxy533 Thu Jan 31 13:00:31 2008 From: roxy533 (Roxanne Hoffman) Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2008 10:00:31 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] Good News from PWP Books - Upcoming FEB Events and Other News Message-ID: <164119.9814.qm@web39601.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Good News from PWP Books - Upcoming FEB Events and Other News PWP IN THE PRESS: Linda Lerner's full length review of Iris Berman's The Little Book of Fairy Tales & Love Poems and Bob Heman's Cone Investigates appears in Home Planet News Issue No. 58 (Vol.15. No. 3)Winter/Spring 2008, free copies now available at St. Mark's Church, The Cornelia Street Cafe, Bowery Poetry Club and other selected locations. You can read her entire review online at: http://home.att.net/~poetswearpradanj/HPNWinterSpring2008.html PUBLICATIONS: SUSAN MAURER has a poem in the lastest issue of Veil and also two forthcoming in the special anniversary issue of Confrontation. 5 of BOB HEMAN's Information poems appears in Alison Ross's Clockwise Cat (themed section on God), posted in December: http://clockwisecat.blogspot.com/2008/01/five-themed-poems-by-bob-heman.html Several of JEE LEONG KOH's poems including two sonnets from Payday Loans, have been anthologized in "Over There: Poems from Singapore and Australia" edited by John Kinsella and Alvin Pang. Here's the link to the publisher's website: http://ethosbooks.com.sg/wow/mli_viewItem.asp?idProduct=206 ROXANNE HOFFMAN has a poem in Volume Three Issue One of the Canadian publication Inscribed edited by Kyle Richtig and Randy Nicholas. The issue will go live February 1st, 2008: http://www.inscribed.org/ BRANT LYON has produced a collaborative CD of music and poetry regarding love including work and performances by himself and 7 of his friends. Please see details of the upcoming CD release party at KGB under February Poetry Calendar (Fri, 2/28 at 7PM) SUBMISSION CALL: PWP Editors continue to collect poetry, flash fiction and artwork related to "bugs" for a themed anthology due out Winter 2008/2009. Please visit our blogspot for more details regarding our submission policy and to see some samples of work already accepted for print publication: http://poetswearprada.blogspot.com/ WE'RE UP ON YOUTUBE.COM: Vist our channel at http://www.youtube.com/pradapoet to see video clips by many of our authors and friends. Please add your comments and rate the videos. Join our friends list. FEBRUARY POETRY CALENDAR: Saturday, February 2nd, 2008 at 4:30PM PETER CHELNIK & SALLY MILGRIM + Open Mic FIFTH AVENUE RESTAURANT & DINER 432 5th Avenue (between 8th & 9th Sts.) Brooklyn, N.Y. 11215 Take R or F to 4th Ave/6th Street $3 Donation + Food/Beverage Purchase The Brownstone Poets Hosted by Patricia Carragon *** Monday, February 4th, 2008 at 7:30PM ROCKST*R POETS ~Presents~ JOHN J. TRAUSE *With open reading to follow* @ PIANOS BAR AND GRILL 36 Broad Street Bloomfield, NJ 973.743.7208 Rockstar Poets Hosted by Douglas Jennerich (DONATIONS GREATLY APPRECIATED AT THE DOOR) *** Monday, February 4th, 2008 at 7:30PM JEE LEONG KOH + Open Mic Nightingale Lounge 213 Second Avenue (NW Corner of East 13th St. & 2nd Ave.) New York, NY 10003 212.473.9398 L,N,Q,R,W,4,5,6 to Union Square/14th St. L to 1st Avenue $3 suggested donation + $6 or 2 drink minimum Happy Hour 6pm - 8PM ('2 For 1' Drink Specials) Saturn Series Hosted by Su Polo & David Elsasser *** Friday February 8th, 2008 @ 6PM GIL FAGIANI & MARIA LISELLA + Open Mic (about twenty 3-minute slots) The Cornelia Street Caf? 29 Cornelia Street NYC 10014 212.989.9319 Take 1 to Christopher St. or A|C|E|D|F|B to West 4th St. 6PM - 8PM $7 cover includes house drink Pink Pony West Reading Series Hosted by Roxanne Hoffman *** Friday February 8th, 2008 at 7PM CD Release Party: BEAUTY KEEPS LAYING ITS SHARP KNIFE AGAINST ME (Logochrysalis 2008) ~Featuring Performances By~ E.J. ANTONIO FARID BITAR ANNE CAMMON DIANA GITESHA HERNANDEZ HAWLEY HUSSEY BRANT LYON FRANK SIMONE ROBIN SMALL-MCCARTHY @ KGB Bar 85 East 4th Street New York, NY Admission is Free. *** Sunday, February 10, 2008 at 3PM BOB HEMAN + Open Mic The Back Fence 155 Bleecker Street (at Thompson St) NYC 212.475.9221 Take 6 to Bleecker St. or A|C|E|D|F|B to West 4th St. The Asbestos Arts Group Hosted by Robert Dunn 3PM - 5PM $5 Cover + 1 Drink Minimum *** Sunday February 10th, 2007 at 6PM ROXANNE HOFFMAN EVIE IVY BRANT LYON JANE ORMEROD EVE PACKER FRANK SIMONE + more TBA + Open Mic @ The Cornelia Street Caf? 29 Cornelia Street NYC 10014 212.989.9319 Take 1 to Christopher St. or A|C|E|D|F|B to West 4th St. 6PM - 8PM $7 cover includes house drink The Four Horsemen Hosted by Bob Quatrone *** Tuesday February 12th, 2007 at 7PM BEST NEW POETS 2007 Anthology Reading JEE LEONG KOH CECILY PARKS ROBIN BETH SCHAER ROBERT SAWYER @ McNally Robinson Bookstore 52 Prince Street New York, NY 10012 212.274.1160 FREE *** Friday February 22nd, 2008 JOHN J. TRAUSE & BRANT LYON + Open Mic Blend Cafe 98 Park Ave Rutherford, NJ 07070 201.460.1466 8PM - 11PM FREE (Please make beverage/snack purchase to support the cafe.) New Jersey Literary Series Sponsored by The Rift and the Alliance of North Jersey Poets *** POETS WEAR PRADA C/O Roxanne Hoffman 533 Bloomfield Street 2nd Floor Hoboken, NJ 07030 http://poetswearpradanj.home.att.net POETS WEAR PRADA is a small press based in Hoboken, New Jersey devoted to introducing new authors through limited edition, high- quality chaplets, primarily of poetry 'New press, great authors, a publisher who is one miracle short of sainthood.' - Angelo Verga, Poetry Curator of The Cornelia Street Cafe 'Poets Wear Prada is a poetry publishing house with excellent poets and affordable books with beautiful covers. Have you had your poetry today?' - Meredith Sue Willis, Books for Readers 'Stylistically, these beautifully designed and produced chaplets bear their own distinctive signature. - Linda Lerner, Small Press Review" Proud Member of the Council of Literary Magazines & Presses *** join our yahoo group at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/poetswearprada/ and become our friend on myspace at: http://www.myspace.com/poetswearprada From bobgrumman Thu Jan 31 14:20:34 2008 From: bobgrumman (Bob Grumman) Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2008 14:20:34 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetry Foundation Letter In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <47A21F82.1050007@nut-n-but.net> Rsgwynn1 at cs.com wrote: > In a message dated 1/30/2008 7:23:58 PM Central Standard Time, > bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net writes: >> Poetry has published visual poetry!? Whose? I never heard they did. >> Oh, John Hollander's? His shaped poems are visual poems, but certainly >> not what anyone would call contemporary visual poems (except >> literally). And he is a certified "real" (non-visual formal) poet. Has >> Poetry published visual poems by poets not certified members of >> Wilshburia? I doubt it. And sure, a few super-certified language poets >> like Bernstein have to get in. >> >> --Bob G. > > > I can't say for sure, but I guess they must have published May Swenson > and, surely, cummings. Right, Sam--May Swenson usually shows up in mainstream anthologies and no doubt got into Poetry at some point--because, like Hollander, she was a certified conventional poet, as well as a sometime visual poet. Cummings was one of Poetry's stars when it was a force in poetry, which it certainly is not, now. > I know, Bob, that this doesn't cover the wide spectrum of visual > poetry, but you have to admit that it's not quite in the mainstream. > How many visual poems show up in textbooks and anthologies. Very few. Amusingly, one widely-used textbook actually has one by me, and one that's a collaboration between my vispo colleagues Reed Altemus and Jim Leftwich. Plus a visual poem by none other than Charles Bernstein! I truly don't know how mine got in--and it really isn't a visual poem, it's a mathematical poem. But I've certainly never argued that visual poems, or sound poems, mathematical poems, and the like are mainstream--only that a publication claiming to have an open door policy should publish examples of some of these things--by poets not big names for other kinds of poetry. > I have included visual poems by Swenson, cumming, Fred Chappell, and > others on my own anthologies. But I'm surely not going to give them > equal space in a teaching anthology that aims to be eclectic. > > Sam You raise an interesting question: how to divide the poems in a teaching anthology of contemporary American poems. One would have to--here it is again, folks--have a decent list of the extant schools of poetry to do it properly, I think. If the aim is truly to teach, you wouldn't need a hundred Iowa plain-text lyrical poems, just maybe twenty good ones. I don't see why you shouldn't have an equal number of visual poems. A good argument could be made for having a lot more, because visual poems vary a great deal more from one another than Iowa plain-text lyrical poems do, and they would be less familiar to college students so needing more exposure to get through to them. Also, you'd have twenty neo-formalist poems, and many other solitextual (solely textual) poems that would be much more like the Iowa plain-text lyrical poems than like visual poems. If I were to edit such a textbook, I'd divide it equally among, Iowa, vispo, soundpo (on a CD included), performance (or "spoken word") poetry, langpo, neoformalist poetry, what I call contra-genteel poetry, cyber-poetry, jump-cut poetry (Ashbury, Jorie Graham), maybe two other kinds of conventional poetry that those more familiar with the varieties of establish poetry would be better able to define, infraverbal poetry, haiku, and miscellaneous poetry that would include mathematical poetry and other exceptionally marginal forms. Then I'd send a description of its contents around and/or put it on a website I'd publicize as much as possible, and invite others to let me know what I've left out (and I'd be shocked if I hadn't left out kinds of poetry worth being in). --Bob G. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman Thu Jan 31 14:40:26 2008 From: bobgrumman (Bob Grumman) Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2008 14:40:26 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetry Foundation Letter In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <47A2242A.1080708@nut-n-but.net> Without looking anything up (and needing to), I'd say that POETRY was a force when Pound was associated with it and for a while after due to the impetus he gave it, but not since when, the forties? has it been anything more than just one more outlet for established poets--and (my gripe) knownstream schools of poetry. That it may now publish the odd otherstream poet or even a specimen or two from an otherstream school of poetry isn't enough to make it more than that. Which brings me to a question: what publication is now doing what POETRY once did? Any? I suspect there are too many kinds of poetry being written and too many outlets for any one publication to do much. Still, wouldn't it be neat if there were ONE regularly-appearing national publication that gave equal space to all schools of poetry? --Bob G. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard Thu Jan 31 14:45:26 2008 From: halvard (Halvard Johnson) Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2008 13:45:26 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetry Foundation Letter In-Reply-To: <47A2242A.1080708@nut-n-but.net> References: <47A2242A.1080708@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: Looks like the upcoming Feb. issue of Poetry has new work by Samuel Beckett in it. Hey, they can't be all bad. Hal "Things are more like they are now than they ever were." --Dwight David Eisenhower Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html On Jan 31, 2008, at 1:40 PM, Bob Grumman wrote: > Without looking anything up (and needing to), I'd say that POETRY > was a force when Pound was associated with it and for a while after > due to the impetus he gave it, but not since when, the forties? has > it been anything more than just one more outlet for established > poets--and (my gripe) knownstream schools of poetry. That it may > now publish the odd otherstream poet or even a specimen or two from > an otherstream school of poetry isn't enough to make it more than > that. Which brings me to a question: what publication is now doing > what POETRY once did? Any? I suspect there are too many kinds of > poetry being written and too many outlets for any one publication to > do much. Still, wouldn't it be neat if there were ONE regularly- > appearing national publication that gave equal space to all schools > of poetry? > > --Bob G. > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lsgrimes Thu Jan 31 17:16:52 2008 From: lsgrimes (Linda Sue Grimes) Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2008 16:16:52 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetry Foundation Letter References: <47A2242A.1080708@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <001301c86456$fc29c4e0$0201a8c0@LindaSue> How about American Poetry Review? --Linda Sue ----- Original Message ----- From: Bob Grumman To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2008 1:40 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Poetry Foundation Letter Without looking anything up (and needing to), I'd say that POETRY was a force when Pound was associated with it and for a while after due to the impetus he gave it, but not since when, the forties? has it been anything more than just one more outlet for established poets--and (my gripe) knownstream schools of poetry. That it may now publish the odd otherstream poet or even a specimen or two from an otherstream school of poetry isn't enough to make it more than that. Which brings me to a question: what publication is now doing what POETRY once did? Any? I suspect there are too many kinds of poetry being written and too many outlets for any one publication to do much. Still, wouldn't it be neat if there were ONE regularly-appearing national publication that gave equal space to all schools of poetry? --Bob G. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mandolin Thu Jan 31 18:23:35 2008 From: mandolin (Michael Snider) Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2008 18:23:35 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetry Foundation Letter In-Reply-To: <001301c86456$fc29c4e0$0201a8c0@LindaSue> References: <47A2242A.1080708@nut-n-but.net> <001301c86456$fc29c4e0$0201a8c0@LindaSue> Message-ID: <6789BFC7-13B4-4E7B-9487-AB88A8672420@mac.com> On Jan 31, 2008, at 5:16 PM, Linda Sue Grimes wrote: > How about American Poetry Review? > It seems to me it's far less eclectic than Poetry. Money mak a diffreence, of course--Poetry pays $10/line and a minimum of $150, so EVERYBODY send them stuff. I'd never think about sending say, a sonnet to APR. From lsgrimes Thu Jan 31 08:00:05 2008 From: lsgrimes (Linda Sue Grimes) Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2008 07:00:05 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] FYI - E. E. Cummings References: Message-ID: <006101c86409$33af7840$0201a8c0@LindaSue> E. E. Cummings did not approve of writing his name lowercase: http://www.gvsu.edu/english/cummings/caps.htm Blessings, Linda Sue Grimes Feature Writer for Poetry http://poetry.suite101.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman Thu Jan 31 22:09:38 2008 From: bobgrumman (Bob Grumman) Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2008 22:09:38 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetry Foundation Letter In-Reply-To: <001301c86456$fc29c4e0$0201a8c0@LindaSue> References: <47A2242A.1080708@nut-n-but.net> <001301c86456$fc29c4e0$0201a8c0@LindaSue> Message-ID: <47A28D72.8040800@nut-n-but.net> Linda Sue Grimes wrote: > How about /American Poetry Review/? > > --Linda Sue > Yeeks, you can't be serious, Linda Sue! I think APR, unless it's changed hugely since I last read it, it the most conservative poetry magazine around, and has been since its inception. --Bob G. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jfq Thu Jan 31 22:44:32 2008 From: jfq (Jason Quackenbush) Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2008 19:44:32 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetry Foundation Letter In-Reply-To: <20080131155810.GA2971@sparky.launchmodem.com> References: <47A115A0.8010503@opus40.org> <20080131155810.GA2971@sparky.launchmodem.com> Message-ID: <7CDF289D-7314-4B24-80C3-C3F98D700A0C@myuw.net> On Jan 31, 2008, at 7:58 AM, pat foley wrote: > On Wed, Jan 30, 2008 at 04:41:19PM -0800, jfq at myuw.net wrote: > >> I just think the Poetry aesthetic seems pretty narrow for a >> magazine that's >> bragging about an open door policy that pays no regard to what >> theory of >> art the poet subscribes to. Have they ever published any visual >> poetry? any >> cowboy poetry? any language poetry? like them or not, all those >> movements >> are significant and ought to be represented in a magazine that has >> the >> attitude claimed in that statement. > > I can sympathize with your view, I really can, but I think it's a > disaster. You've not only confused writing-and-publishing -- > "literature" > as a going concern we might say -- with literary _history_, but then > you've gone and confused that with politics. In the halls of > government > we expect "significant movements" to "represented", but I don't > think an > artist should ever be caught dead thinking that way. > > That said, there's been a lot of talk about whether a few more-or-less > mainstream poets are more-or-less similar, and then layered on that > some > talk about which schools of poetry get represented where, as if we > could > confidently talk about siimilarity there. It seems to me that over > time > almost every "school" turns out to be a loose bunch of friends who had > far less in common aesthetically than earlier critics (usually > including themselves) thought. Are you really saying that you don't see where there's a likeness between, for example, rae armentrout and susan howe and in that likeness a differentiation from say a sharon olds and donald hall style poet? this is where I think ron silliman has been very insightful in his critiques of the "school of quietude." it's not so much an aesthetic as it is an unwillingness to see the existence of other aesthetics. What's at issue here isn't equal representation, but the acknowledgment of diversity and of the validity of the fringes. i think that would be pretty silly for a mainstream magazine to attempt. but it would be nice if poetry weren't so hypocritical about how open its doors are. looking for the presence of certain schools is only one way to look at the picture. Another, possibly better, one would be to look at how involved the various contributors are in AWP style poetry. to a certain extent, and i owe this observation to bob grumman, there's a very safe and acceptable place for certain kinds of the avant garde within the broader mainstream that i think bob is referring to when he talks about the knownstream vs. the otherstream. In truth I think there really are just two kinds of poets, those who think that there are two kinds of poets and those that don't, and to my mind the great failing of an institution like Poetry and it's editorship is that at least the last few times i've looked in at it, it's been firmly in the latter camp. Poetry just believes that there is good poetry and bad poetry, and that the best known contemporary poetry is the best poetry. There's some very good poetry among the best known at present. But most of my favorites on the current scene are lesser knowns, and those are the people i don't see in the pages of Poetry. to illustrate using myself as an example, I personally am pretty conventional in a lot of ways. i wouldn't know about how to go about using photoshop to write a poem. my poetry is text based and relies heavily on traditional techniques. to the best of my knowledge, I've only ever innovated a couple of devices in my poetic practice, and where i have, it's been largely an extension of devices i found in much older, and dead, poets like ted berrigan gertrude stein and jackson mac low. so i shy away from describing myself as an innovative poet in the way that, for example, jUSTIN!kATKO or brian kim stefans are. that having been said, i still feel that my "open sentences" "false similes" and "lyrical collage" devices put me enough on the outside that i could never be one of the more or less unknown writers who occasionally find themselves in mainstream publications. And really I'm ok with that, it just rankles a bit when a place that i feel completely excluded from on aesthetic grounds would describe itself as having an "Open Door." From Opus40-01 Tue Jan 1 07:33:41 2008 From: Opus40-01 (TheOldMole) Date: Tue, 01 Jan 2008 07:33:41 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] When Quinn the Eskimo gets here... Message-ID: <477A3325.1060700@opus40.org> Are these the questions you would have asked Alice Quinn? (from PW) *Who do you perceive to be the audience for the /New Yorker/'s poems? *I feel that /New Yorker/ readers are people who were profoundly connected to poetry in childhood, adolescence, or college, who want to touch base with it and want to feel that they still can read poetry. The /New Yorker/ gives poets access to an international audience of literarily eager people who are sampling poetry. *What changes have you noticed in poetry? *Poetry's a little swervier now. There are a lot of leaps being made, and an enjoyment of humor, playfulness, mystery?a certain ebullient spontaneity. I feel that in the work of the younger poets, and I love it. Of course, I'm still a great believer in Robert Frost's dictum that a good poem should be like a piece of ice on a hot stove; it should ride on its own melting. I feel there's more openness to the work that Jean Valentine and Rae Armantrout and Fanny Howe are doing, and some of that derives from the enjoyment that the poets in their twenties and thirties take in that work. They don't enshrine it in a totally academic and fierce and somewhat defensive, even belligerent, way. They don't feel they have to argue for it; they just enjoy it. *Where will poetry take you next? *First I would like to produce a very good book of Bishop's journals. I will have time in which to go to the Houghton Library in Boston and to the archives at Vassar, and St. Louis, where they have the May Swenson?Elizabeth Bishop correspondence, and to really get in a little bit of that dreamy investigative time that you get when you're at a rare-book library. Will I pursue other book projects or will I want to become an editor-at-large at a poetry house I admire? I'm not sure. For the time being, I really see PSA as an important focus of my devotion. But I can't pretend that it is in any way easy to leave the /New Yorker/. There's nothing that's going to take the place of people in [my] apartment building and people in London saying, "I loved that poem in the /New Yorker/ last week." The /New Yorker/ is a magical place. -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ The moral is this: in American verse, The better you are, the pay is worse. --Corey Ford From anny.ballardini Tue Jan 1 07:41:59 2008 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2008 13:41:59 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] New Year on New Poetry! Message-ID: <001201c84c73$b39d2730$2eec3652@ANNY> I find this little video quite nice: http://myspacetv.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoid=24972442 and if you like them there are more, even if I am of the idea that a small dose is enough: Ohio reviews Jennifer Moxley's The Middle Room: http://myspacetv.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoid=24970326 Ohio reviews Rod Smith's new book, Deed: http://myspacetv.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoid=22381844 Ohio reviews Dorothea Lasky's AWE: http://myspacetv.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoid=16127861 Ohio reviews Starsdown by Jasper Bernes: http://myspacetv.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoid=24974694 Ohio reviews the new Shiny: http://myspacetv.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoid=24968160 Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd Tue Jan 1 09:59:57 2008 From: grahamd (David Graham) Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2008 08:59:57 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Frost's House vandalized Message-ID: <865A895A-9500-4DC8-8D62-2FCFD870A5C6@ripon.edu> http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5jBdbQpGYbl-8y_IxIj5EHX4hHHvQD8TSQM080 ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/About%20Me.html Poetry Library: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames Tue Jan 1 13:25:02 2008 From: jforjames (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Tue, 01 Jan 2008 13:25:02 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Lorca's casa Message-ID: <8CA1ABAC2248A23-B6C-2160@webmail-da19.sysops.aol.com> http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/01/arts/design/01lorca.html?ref=design Chasing a Shadowy Imp, Garc?a Lorca?s Muse By DALE FUCHS Published: January 1, 2008 GRANADA, Spain ? Federico Garc?a Lorca called it ?el duende? ? in Spanish, the elf ? a dark, irrational muse that leads artists to tragic depths. This dangerous goblin, who delights in the ?tiny weeds of death,? as the early-20th-century Spanish poet and dramatist said in a lecture in Havana, haunted the streets of Garc?a Lorca?s ?Poet in New York? and the moonlit night of ?Blood Wedding.? It refused to take pity on the barren wombs, the weeping guitars or the silver-eyed Gypsy women of other Garc?a Lorca works.? ? And the little imp is making trouble still. More than 70 years after Garc?a Lorca?s death by a fascist firing squad at the start of the Spanish Civil War, the shadowy elf apparently inhabits Garc?a Lorca?s country home her ________________________________________________________________________ More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://webmail.aol.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini Tue Jan 1 15:01:27 2008 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2008 21:01:27 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Lorca's casa References: <8CA1ABAC2248A23-B6C-2160@webmail-da19.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <003e01c84cb1$18d19590$0aaa3452@ANNY> Dale Fuchs, a good friend of mine! Thanks for the article. She is the correspondent from Madrid for The New York Times. ----- Original Message ----- From: jforjames at aol.com To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Tuesday, January 01, 2008 7:25 PM Subject: [New-Poetry] Lorca's casa http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/01/arts/design/01lorca.html?ref=design Chasing a Shadowy Imp, Garc?a Lorca?s Muse By DALE FUCHS Published: January 1, 2008 GRANADA, Spain ? Federico Garc?a Lorca called it ?el duende? ? in Spanish, the elf ? a dark, irrational muse that leads artists to tragic depths. This dangerous goblin, who delights in the ?tiny weeds of death,? as the early-20th-century Spanish poet and dramatist said in a lecture in Havana, haunted the streets of Garc?a Lorca?s ?Poet in New York? and the moonlit night of ?Blood Wedding.? It refused to take pity on the barren wombs, the weeping guitars or the silver-eyed Gypsy women of other Garc?a Lorca works. And the little imp is making trouble still. More than 70 years after Garc?a Lorca?s death by a fascist firing squad at the start of the Spanish Civil War, the shadowy elf apparently inhabits Garc?a Lorca?s country home her ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail! ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames Tue Jan 1 16:26:17 2008 From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2008 16:26:17 EST Subject: [New-Poetry] Well put: Bill Berkson Message-ID: Both painting and poetry occupy fictive spaces in the physical world. But, then again, it may be because poetry and painting are more incomparable to one another than to the other arts that their affinity is sealed. [14] -- You can do a lot with educated eyes. What I mean by ?educated? is simply how pictures, among other things, can teach you about how to see, and what?s visible when you look hard enough or most openly. At a certain point, past the shock of seeing, you want to do something about it. That?s what makes an artist begin being an artist in the first place. At one time or another you get hit like with a rock. I have a theory that the course of anyone?s artistic life is determined largely by the attempt to retrieve that original rock, or what the painters used to call The Dream. [14] -- There is an ?everything? principle?the universal ?everything? principle? that poetry and painting share. It has to do with including. Fairfield Porter says, ?There is an elementary principle of organization in any art that nothing gets in anything else?s way and everything is at its own limit of possibilities.? [15] -- Wonderfully, there is no logic why poetry and painting should meet at all. It is not poetry dressing up to be ?like? painting or painting being pro- or anti-literary. Those comparisons are really speechless. I sometimes feel called upon to write a whole other lecture entitled ?Why I Am Not A Painterly Poet.? The real connections lie elsewhere, with materials which criticism is ever hard put to recognize, because criticism most often doesn?t, as art will, talk about everything all at one. [23] ?Bill Berskon, ?Poetry and Painting,? Sudden Address, Cuneiform Press 2007 -- Kenneth [Koch] was, and continues to be, central to my education. His conception of poetry as a form of nearly materialized, physical excitement made me see not just poetry but the world in and outside poetry differently. Not only did he encourage me in my writing but without proselytizing he revealed how being a poet could be a sensible pursuit?sensible in every respect?for a grown person. [94-95] -- If poetry and art have any assignment it is to make up the universe each time from scratch, hoping to uncover some plausibly declarative thread with enough connective tissue and shine to put it across. -- ?We poets know nothing,? sang ancient Hesiod, ?only what the muses tell us.? Modernity?s default muses have been private sensibility, abstract forms, and general culture made manifest as what we now call ?media.? [102] ?Bill Berskon, ??The Uneven Phenomenon??What Did You Expect?,? Sudden Address, Cuneiform Press 2007 **************************************See AOL's top rated recipes (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Opus40-01 Tue Jan 1 16:42:04 2008 From: Opus40-01 (TheOldMole) Date: Tue, 01 Jan 2008 16:42:04 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] And a little trivia for the new year... Message-ID: <477AB3AC.7070607@opus40.org> Who is referenced by both Auden and Groucho Marx? -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ The moral is this: in American verse, The better you are, the pay is worse. --Corey Ford From anny.ballardini Tue Jan 1 16:43:59 2008 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2008 22:43:59 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] pebbles & pebbles Message-ID: <004c01c84cbf$6b2599f0$132bb750@ANNY> Pebble by Zbigniew Herbert The pebble is a perfect creature equal to itself mindful of its limits filled exactly with a pebbly meaning with a scent that does not remind one of anything does not frighten anything away does not arouse desire its ardour and coldness are just and full of dignity I feel a heavy remorse when I hold it in my hand and its noble body is permeated by false warmth - Pebbles cannot be tamed to the end they will look at us with a calm and very clear eye Translated by Peter Dale Scott and Czeslaw Milosz from here: http://www.uvm.edu/~sgutman/Herbert.html Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini Tue Jan 1 17:39:32 2008 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2008 23:39:32 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] blogs Message-ID: <007b01c84cc7$2e07dfd0$132bb750@ANNY> On Slim Window by Tom Beckett: I believe that poetry is the most adrenalized, most sexualized, and the most language-centered of all the literary art. It defines itself through an emphasis on its materiality and its contingency, through its willingness--at its best--to be surpassed. http://slimwindows.blogspot.com/2008/01/allen-bramhall-ended-2007-with-question.html Linh Dinh has a blog: Detainees http://wwwwsonneteighteencom.blogspot.com/ Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jfq Tue Jan 1 23:28:56 2008 From: jfq (Jason Quackenbush) Date: Tue, 01 Jan 2008 20:28:56 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] Questions on form In-Reply-To: <477961C3.9010800@opus40.org> References: <477961C3.9010800@opus40.org> Message-ID: <477B1308.4000407@myuw.net> I count "William," "different" as a three syllable words and "beautiful" and "Everyone" as four syllable words. so there are four lines in this that have eight syllables. which is what i mean by "shoehorning" which is what you have to do if you want to say that every line here is in regular 7 syllable units. and you have to do that if you want to use traditional bivalent scansion toaccount for what feels like the regularity in this. TheOldMole wrote: > I don't think so. It's very regular, whether you read it as all > trochees or a balance between iambs and trochees, you still have seven > syllables in every line, three metric feet of two sy;llables and one > of one. > > jfq at myuw.net wrote: >> I think it's precisely these sorts of discussions that reveal the >> limitations of traditional bivalent scansion. Clearly there's a >> rhythmic scheme in this: >> >> >>> _Earth_, /re_ceive_ /an _hon_/oured _guest_: >>> _Will_iam/ _Yeats_/ is _laid _/to _rest_. >>> _Let _the /_Ir_ish /_ves_sel /_lie_ >>> _Empt_ied /_of _its /_po_et/_ry_. >>> >>> _Time _/that _is _/in_tol_/er_ant_ >>> _Of _the /_brave _and /_in_no/_cent_, >>> _And _in/_diff_erent/ _in _/a _week_ >>> _To _a/ _beaut_i/_ful _phy/_sique_, >>> >>> _Wor_ships/_ lang_uage/ _and _/for_gives_ >>> _Ev_/ery_one _/by _whom _/it _lives_; >>> _Pard_ons /_cow_/ar_dice_, /con_ceit_, >>> _Lays_/ its _hon_/ours _at _/their _feet_. >> >> but you try to shoehorn it into Greek feet, and the next thing you >> know you have to invent all sorts of weird schemata to "explain" >> something that's really very intuitive if you don't think to hard >> about it: there are two strong stresses coupled with two attendant >> weak stresses on each line (in the first line quoted above, the >> strong stresses are on "Earth" and "hon" and weak stresses on "ceive" >> and "guest") and the length of the line changes as needed due to the >> variable length of the syllables and the presence of caesura which >> would otherwise upset the pace of the pulse underlying the placement >> of the stresses. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> > From chris.lott Tue Jan 1 23:45:41 2008 From: chris.lott (Chris Lott) Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2008 19:45:41 -0900 Subject: [New-Poetry] Questions on form In-Reply-To: <477B1308.4000407@myuw.net> References: <477961C3.9010800@opus40.org> <477B1308.4000407@myuw.net> Message-ID: <9b1b9dab0801012045i2ec92dd9icd3cd51f84fa5fa1@mail.gmail.com> On Jan 1, 2008 7:28 PM, Jason Quackenbush wrote: > I count "William," "different" as a three syllable words and "beautiful" > and "Everyone" as four syllable words. so there are four lines in this > that have eight syllables. which is what i mean by "shoehorning" which > is what you have to do if you want to say that every line here is in > regular 7 syllable units. and you have to do that if you want to use > traditional bivalent scansion toaccount for what feels like the > regularity in this. That's 4 for 4 in syllable counts being different from mine.. William and different are 2 syllable words in my mouth, beautiful and everyone are 3... I'll have to start listening more closely, but I can't think of anyone I know who adds the extra syllable in there when speaking. Or I just don't hear them :) c -- Chris Lott From jfq Tue Jan 1 23:56:28 2008 From: jfq (Jason Quackenbush) Date: Tue, 01 Jan 2008 20:56:28 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] Questions on form In-Reply-To: <47798A24.5090303@nut-n-but.net> References: <4779405D.5040809@nut-n-but.net><2250D527CF9C433B8902A119E2DE8DD3@HamiltonPC> <4779631D.5090805@opus40.org> <47798A24.5090303@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <477B197C.1050500@myuw.net> Bob Grumman wrote: > if not, then what IS trochaic or iambic--since you can find more than > two strengths of stresses in any string of words. precisely my point. they don't really exist, and you have to do weird things to words in order to make them seem to exist. Granted we've beaten ourselves over the head with the iamb so much at this point that it has a sort of quasi-existence, but trochees spondees dactyls anapests choriambs, the whole lot are a bunch of malarkey. Modern science has replaced the goofy beliefs of the scholastics in every other aspect of our lives, why we cling to the feeble prosody of the sour faced grammarians who saddled us with traditional scansion because they thought English should be more like the classical languages is beyond me. > Seems to me the whole point of meter is regularization--and slightly > de-prosing a text by boosting certain accented syllables and > lightening certain unaccented ones. (Here, and most of the time.) I think that precisely the opposite is the point, that we regularize the line to get meter. All language has rhythm, but a meter must have a regular rhythm to have the effect of creating a pulse that is felt in the sound of the words. To do that meter must take into account the actual accents of actual language or it doesn't regularize anything and the rhythm it's pretending to have doesn't actually exist unless you do the weird exaggeration that you're talking about. Which is of course, what the problem with most formal verse is. Not that it's bad to write in meter, there are plenty of good ways to write in meter that would be really interesting. The best English language poets with form all work on a more subtle level than traditional bivalent stress, it's just unfortunate that most critics haven't noticed that because they're so used to misreading the stresses and syllable weights in order to figure out how the poems scan in bivalent scansion. It's all received wisdom that we'd be better off doing away with and starting over. Unfortunately, nobody else seems to both agree with me and care enough about the issue to put into practice a thorough four valued scansion set of forms, so all we get are ever more complicated versions of analysis. I personally quite like the possibilities presented by Derek Attridge's book "Poetic Rhythm" as it's the only thing I've found that can fully take account of Jackson Mac Low's more rhythmically mannerist work, but even the 3 value system that Corn used in the Poem's Heartbeat is greatly preferable to classical prosody. From jfq Wed Jan 2 00:13:25 2008 From: jfq (Jason Quackenbush) Date: Tue, 01 Jan 2008 21:13:25 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] Questions on form In-Reply-To: <9b1b9dab0801012045i2ec92dd9icd3cd51f84fa5fa1@mail.gmail.com> References: <477961C3.9010800@opus40.org> <477B1308.4000407@myuw.net> <9b1b9dab0801012045i2ec92dd9icd3cd51f84fa5fa1@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <477B1D75.2010509@myuw.net> Chris Lott wrote: > On Jan 1, 2008 7:28 PM, Jason Quackenbush wrote: > >> I count "William," "different" as a three syllable words and "beautiful" >> and "Everyone" as four syllable words. so there are four lines in this >> that have eight syllables. which is what i mean by "shoehorning" which >> is what you have to do if you want to say that every line here is in >> regular 7 syllable units. and you have to do that if you want to use >> traditional bivalent scansion toaccount for what feels like the >> regularity in this. >> > > That's 4 for 4 in syllable counts being different from mine.. William > and different are 2 syllable words in my mouth, beautiful and everyone > are 3... I'll have to start listening more closely, but I can't think > of anyone I know who adds the extra syllable in there when speaking. > Or I just don't hear them :) > > c > I'm not surprised there's disagreement. Most people treat dipthongs as single syllables when they're scanning poetry, but most people when speaking give dipthongs more time than a long vowel, so i think it makes sense to count them as two syllables, particularly since there are two sounds there. which is why william is three and beautiful is four. Also, most people miss that there's an unstressed syllable in the middle of "different" because it's extremely unstressed. However, I think there's a noticable difference between the word "different" and "diffrent" where the latter has an "fr" consonant cluster due to the missing unstressed schwa in the middle of "different," and likewise the whole stress pattern of the word shifts a touch. the same thing goes for "Everyone", contrast with "Evryone" and you'll see where the fourth syllable is. Then again, we may have significantly different dialects which might be the cause of the difference here too. What part of the world did you grow up in? From chris.lott Wed Jan 2 00:48:35 2008 From: chris.lott (Chris Lott) Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2008 20:48:35 -0900 Subject: [New-Poetry] Questions on form In-Reply-To: <477B1D75.2010509@myuw.net> References: <477961C3.9010800@opus40.org> <477B1308.4000407@myuw.net> <9b1b9dab0801012045i2ec92dd9icd3cd51f84fa5fa1@mail.gmail.com> <477B1D75.2010509@myuw.net> Message-ID: <9b1b9dab0801012148w1e155956le3b1376696f87d53@mail.gmail.com> I understand where the 4th syllables are supposed to be, I just don't ever hear anyone actually verbalizing them. In my head they sound different, particularly when spelled to reflect the missing syllable (different vs diffrent) but in reality I and everyone else I can think of (I'lll have to pay more attention) actually *say* it as "diffrent" ... I grew up in the Pacific Northwest and Alaska... c From s.allen.moore Wed Jan 2 03:22:13 2008 From: s.allen.moore (Steve Moore) Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2008 09:22:13 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Questions on form Message-ID: I also grew up o the west coast, California, Oregon, and Alaska (I currently live in Fairbanks). We tend to compress our words, cutting out extra vowels and compressing two short syllables into a single long syllable. Most of us also pronounce our T's as D's when it is at the middle or end of a word. Of course, that brings up the question, do you base your syllables on how you read it, or how you think your readers will read it. From bobgrumman Wed Jan 2 07:02:10 2008 From: bobgrumman (Bob Grumman) Date: Wed, 02 Jan 2008 07:02:10 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Questions on form In-Reply-To: <9b1b9dab0801012045i2ec92dd9icd3cd51f84fa5fa1@mail.gmail.com> References: <477961C3.9010800@opus40.org> <477B1308.4000407@myuw.net> <9b1b9dab0801012045i2ec92dd9icd3cd51f84fa5fa1@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <477B7D42.10606@nut-n-but.net> Chris Lott wrote: > On Jan 1, 2008 7:28 PM, Jason Quackenbush wrote: > >> I count "William," "different" as a three syllable words and "beautiful" >> and "Everyone" as four syllable words. so there are four lines in this >> that have eight syllables. which is what i mean by "shoehorning" which >> is what you have to do if you want to say that every line here is in >> regular 7 syllable units. and you have to do that if you want to use >> traditional bivalent scansion toaccount for what feels like the >> regularity in this. >> > > That's 4 for 4 in syllable counts being different from mine.. William > and different are 2 syllable words in my mouth, beautiful and everyone > are 3... I'll have to start listening more closely, but I can't think > of anyone I know who adds the extra syllable in there when speaking. > Or I just don't hear them :) > > > My pronunciation is the same as yours, Chris. Aside from that, it seems to me the whole idea of meter IS the "shoehorn" syllables--make the engagent hear the meter, not the "real" pronunciations. It regularizes a part of the poem which lets the images or ideas or diction of the poem go irregular, and it also heightens the language by making it slightly strange. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman Wed Jan 2 07:22:23 2008 From: bobgrumman (Bob Grumman) Date: Wed, 02 Jan 2008 07:22:23 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Questions on form In-Reply-To: <477B1D75.2010509@myuw.net> References: <477961C3.9010800@opus40.org><477B1308.4000407@myuw.net><9b1b9dab0801012045i2ec92dd9icd3cd51f84fa5fa1@mail.gmail.com> <477B1D75.2010509@myuw.net> Message-ID: <477B81FF.5000203@nut-n-but.net> Jason Quackenbush wrote: > Chris Lott wrote: >> On Jan 1, 2008 7:28 PM, Jason Quackenbush wrote: >> >>> I count "William," "different" as a three syllable words and >>> "beautiful" >>> and "Everyone" as four syllable words. so there are four lines in this >>> that have eight syllables. which is what i mean by "shoehorning" which >>> is what you have to do if you want to say that every line here is in >>> regular 7 syllable units. and you have to do that if you want to use >>> traditional bivalent scansion toaccount for what feels like the >>> regularity in this. >>> >> >> That's 4 for 4 in syllable counts being different from mine.. William >> and different are 2 syllable words in my mouth, beautiful and everyone >> are 3... I'll have to start listening more closely, but I can't think >> of anyone I know who adds the extra syllable in there when speaking. >> Or I just don't hear them :) >> >> c >> > I'm not surprised there's disagreement. Most people treat dipthongs as > single syllables when they're scanning poetry, but most people when > speaking give dipthongs more time than a long vowel, so i think it > makes sense to count them as two syllables, particularly since there > are two sounds there. which is why william is three and beautiful is > four. Also, most people miss that there's an unstressed syllable in > the middle of "different" because it's extremely unstressed. However, > I think there's a noticable difference between the word "different" > and "diffrent" where the latter has an "fr" consonant cluster due to > the missing unstressed schwa in the middle of "different," and > likewise the whole stress pattern of the word shifts a touch. the same > thing goes for "Everyone", contrast with "Evryone" and you'll see > where the fourth syllable is. > > Then again, we may have significantly different dialects which might > be the cause of the difference here too. What part of the world did > you grow up in? Isn't it standard for inconsequential syllables to drop out of words as languages evolve? If so, at some point, a two syllable pronunciation of a word like "different"--or "dialect," which I still usually pronounce as three syllables but sometimes as just two--will become "correct." --Bob From Rsgwynn1 Wed Jan 2 10:06:10 2008 From: Rsgwynn1 (Rsgwynn1 at cs.com) Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2008 10:06:10 EST Subject: [New-Poetry] Questions on form Message-ID: In a message dated 1/1/2008 10:29:21 PM Central Standard Time, jfq at myuw.net writes: > > I count "William," "different" as a three syllable words and "beautiful" > and "Everyone" as four syllable words. so there are four lines in this > that have eight syllables. which is what i mean by "shoehorning" which > is what you have to do if you want to say that every line here is in > regular 7 syllable units. and you have to do that if you want to use > traditional bivalent scansion toaccount for what feels like the > regularity in this. > I suggest you check your fingers. Then consult an audiologist. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Opus40-01 Wed Jan 2 10:43:32 2008 From: Opus40-01 (TheOldMole) Date: Wed, 02 Jan 2008 10:43:32 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Questions on form In-Reply-To: <9b1b9dab0801012148w1e155956le3b1376696f87d53@mail.gmail.com> References: <477961C3.9010800@opus40.org> <477B1308.4000407@myuw.net> <9b1b9dab0801012045i2ec92dd9icd3cd51f84fa5fa1@mail.gmail.com> <477B1D75.2010509@myuw.net> <9b1b9dab0801012148w1e155956le3b1376696f87d53@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <477BB124.90406@opus40.org> Maybe in the American south. I had a friend from Tennessee, an excellent poet, but she could never get meter, She said it was because where she came from, they added extra syllables to everything -- "bee-yootiful," etc. But this diesn't explain why so many southern poets from Lanier to Timrod to the Fugitives wrote in regular meter, without the extra-syllable Southernisms. Chris Lott wrote: > I understand where the 4th syllables are supposed to be, I just don't > ever hear anyone actually verbalizing them. In my head they sound > different, particularly when spelled to reflect the missing syllable > (different vs diffrent) but in reality I and everyone else I can think > of (I'lll have to pay more attention) actually *say* it as "diffrent" > ... > > I grew up in the Pacific Northwest and Alaska... > > c > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ The moral is this: in American verse, The better you are, the pay is worse. --Corey Ford From Opus40-01 Wed Jan 2 11:40:49 2008 From: Opus40-01 (TheOldMole) Date: Wed, 02 Jan 2008 11:40:49 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Questions on form In-Reply-To: <477B81FF.5000203@nut-n-but.net> References: <477961C3.9010800@opus40.org><477B1308.4000407@myuw.net><9b1b9dab0801012045i2ec92dd9icd3cd51f84fa5fa1@mail.gmail.com> <477B1D75.2010509@myuw.net> <477B81FF.5000203@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <477BBE91.3050806@opus40.org> Bob Grumman wrote: > Isn't it standard for inconsequential syllables to drop out of words > as languages evolve? If so, at some point, a two syllable > pronunciation of a word like "different"--or "dialect," which I still > usually pronounce as three syllables but sometimes as just two--will > become "correct." > > --Bob In the case of "different," two syllables have been the standard for a while. Here's Shelley, also making "aspire" a two-syllable word: Yet, oh, how different! One aspires to Heaven, Pants for its sempiternal heritage, I think we'd notice it more if a poet stretched the syllable count to three -- which Lord knows, people have done. I might even have done it myself at some time. But if you did, you'd have to know you were calling attention to that moment in the line. > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ The moral is this: in American verse, The better you are, the pay is worse. --Corey Ford From Opus40-01 Wed Jan 2 12:09:23 2008 From: Opus40-01 (TheOldMole) Date: Wed, 02 Jan 2008 12:09:23 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] What am I letting myself in for? Message-ID: <477BC543.9030306@opus40.org> Looking at the class rosters for my Freshman comp class this coming semester, I have a student named Dana Gioia. -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ The moral is this: in American verse, The better you are, the pay is worse. --Corey Ford From jforjames Wed Jan 2 13:03:32 2008 From: jforjames (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Wed, 02 Jan 2008 13:03:32 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] What am I letting myself in for? In-Reply-To: <477BC543.9030306@opus40.org> References: <477BC543.9030306@opus40.org> Message-ID: <8CA1B80EBCE7BDF-3C8-14E@FWM-D32.sysops.aol.com> Can Comp Matter? -----Original Message----- From: TheOldMole Bcc: jforjames at aol.com Sent: Wed, 2 Jan 2008 12:09 pm Subject: [New-Poetry] What am I letting myself in for? Looking at the class rosters for my Freshman comp class this coming semester, I have a student named Dana Gioia.? ? -- Tad Richards? http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/? http://opusforty.blogspot.com/? ? The moral is this: in American verse,? The better you are, the pay is worse.? ?--Corey Ford? ? _______________________________________________? New-Poetry mailing list? New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu? http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry? ________________________________________________________________________ More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://webmail.aol.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames Wed Jan 2 13:07:00 2008 From: jforjames (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Wed, 02 Jan 2008 13:07:00 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetry as Insurgent Art Message-ID: <8CA1B8167843B56-DA4-39@FWM-D32.sysops.aol.com> http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2007/12/30/RVLRU031F.DTL&type=books Ferlinghetti argues that poetry can save the world Steve Heilig Sunday, December 30, 2007 ? Poetry as Insurgent Art By Lawrence Ferlinghetti NEW DIRECTIONS; 90 PAGES; $12.95 What is the "use" of poetry? Or, as more than one author has asked, Can Poetry Matter? More than 50 years ago, renowned American poet William Carlos Williams wrote famously that "It is difficult/ to get the news from poems/ yet men die miserably every day/ for lack/ of what is found there." A practical man who was not only a poet but also a practicing physician, Williams' lines are usually read to imply that poetry - good poetry, at least - is essential to one's inner life and spirit. In the cultural doldrums of the early 1950s, that rang true for many people. Around the same time Williams wrote those lines, Lawrence Ferlinghetti arrived in San Francisco, ________________________________________________________________________ More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://webmail.aol.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames Wed Jan 2 13:07:56 2008 From: jforjames (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Wed, 02 Jan 2008 13:07:56 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] WorldPo: Bangladeshi Poet, Kaiser Haq Message-ID: <8CA1B818933FF53-DA4-4A@FWM-D32.sysops.aol.com> http://www.popmatters.com/pm/columns/article/52591/in-conversation-with-bangladeshi-poet-kaiser-haq/ The Bengal Gaze: In Conversation with Bangladeshi Poet, Kaiser Haq [2 January 2008] In recent context, the work of Bangladeshi writers like Kaiser Haq, a poet, translator, essayist, editor and professor of English at Dhaka University, seems ever more significant. Haq?s latest collection of poetry, Published in the Streets of Dhaka: Collected Poems 1966-2006, impresses with its insight and quirkiness, fluidity and eroticism, evoking Bangladesh as he knows, remembers and imagines it. Haq writes with the fondness and deprecation of the insider; if anything can be clearly discerned from the complexity of his verse (including the sometimes lofty obscurity of his allusions), it is his sense of belonging to Bangladesh, even as he appears to stand apart from it in an intriguing way?through language. ________________________________________________________________________ More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://webmail.aol.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd Wed Jan 2 13:25:22 2008 From: grahamd (David Graham) Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2008 12:25:22 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Spoken Word Redux Message-ID: <3FFFFC39-B2F7-408B-A3A6-5B71EB51F5DB@ripon.edu> New book recommendation-- I've been looking at the anthology *The Spoken Word Revolution Redux*, which is a sequel to *The Spoken Word Revolution* of a couple years back, both edited by Mark Eleveld. From Sourcebooks. To my mind, it's an even better collection than the first one. There are by now a number of anthologies and texts that cover performance/slam/spoken word poetry, some more dross-heavy than others. I think this is one of the better ones. Like the earlier book, this sequel makes an effort at bridge-building between the "academic" and the "street" scenes by including pieces by more mainstream academic figures (Ted Kooser, Billy Collins, Robert Creeley, e.g.) as well as brief essays about various issues. Particularly strong essays by James Fenton ("The Raised Voice of Poetry") and Henry Taylor ("Read by the Author: Some Notes on Poetry in Performance"). I like it that the editor doesn't adopt an adversarial stance toward tradition or indulge in the usual mindless professor-bashing. New features in the latest book include a section of international poems, a little mini-symposium/tribute to Creeley, and more attention to the music/poetry nexus. Like the first book, this one also comes with a CD, including poets reading as well as commentary on the scene. I wish it came with 5 CDs--too many of the pieces are merely excerpted, and my relish for Marc Smith's commentary is not infinite--but it's a good start, anyway. All anthologies these days should come with CDs, in my opinion, particularly of poems performed live rather than in the studio. ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/About%20Me.html Poetry Library: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Opus40-01 Wed Jan 2 14:27:11 2008 From: Opus40-01 (TheOldMole) Date: Wed, 02 Jan 2008 14:27:11 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] What am I letting myself in for? In-Reply-To: <8CA1B80EBCE7BDF-3C8-14E@FWM-D32.sysops.aol.com> References: <477BC543.9030306@opus40.org> <8CA1B80EBCE7BDF-3C8-14E@FWM-D32.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <477BE58F.4080203@opus40.org> Can this possibly be a relation? I guess I'll find out. jforjames at aol.com wrote: > Can Comp Matter? > > > -----Original Message----- > From: TheOldMole > Bcc: jforjames at aol.com > Sent: Wed, 2 Jan 2008 12:09 pm > Subject: [New-Poetry] What am I letting myself in for? > > Looking at the class rosters for my Freshman comp class this coming > semester, I have a student named Dana Gioia. > > -- Tad Richards > http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ > http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ > > The moral is this: in American verse, > The better you are, the pay is worse. > --Corey Ford > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail > ! > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ The moral is this: in American verse, The better you are, the pay is worse. --Corey Ford From skip Wed Jan 2 15:08:38 2008 From: skip (Skip Fox) Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2008 14:08:38 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fw: [NarcissusWorks] 12/29/2007 10:24:00 PM In-Reply-To: <004e01c84a63$86304ff0$f4ab3252@ANNY> Message-ID: <002101c84d7b$49054f20$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> My two computers have these Ballardini backgrounds currently. -----Original Message----- From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Anny Ballardini Sent: Saturday, December 29, 2007 3:41 PM To: New Poetry Subject: [New-Poetry] Fw: [NarcissusWorks] 12/29/2007 10:24:00 PM I posted several pics on my blog, any comment would be much appreciated. ----- Original Message ----- From: Anny Ballardini To: anny.ballardini at tin.it Sent: Saturday, December 29, 2007 10:27 PM Subject: [NarcissusWorks] 12/29/2007 10:24:00 PM -- Posted By Anny Ballardini to NarcissusWorks at 12/29/2007 10:24:00 PM -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jfq Wed Jan 2 15:16:27 2008 From: jfq (jfq at myuw.net) Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2008 12:16:27 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] Questions on form In-Reply-To: <477B81FF.5000203@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 2 Jan 2008, Bob Grumman wrote: > Isn't it standard for inconsequential syllables to drop out of words as > languages evolve? If so, at some point, a two syllable pronunciation of a word > like "different"--or "dialect," which I still usually pronounce as three > syllables but sometimes as just two--will become "correct." It's definitely one mechanism of language change, although syllables and extra prefixes and suffixes get added too. Particularly in Chinese for example, the creation of multiple syllable words has been a major vehicle of dialect change. From anny.ballardini Wed Jan 2 15:29:07 2008 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2008 21:29:07 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fw: [NarcissusWorks] 12/29/2007 10:24:00 PM References: <002101c84d7b$49054f20$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> Message-ID: <002501c84d7e$20496c80$6cd93052@ANNY> Thank you Skip, very honored, indeed. ----- Original Message ----- From: Skip Fox To: 'NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views' Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2008 9:08 PM Subject: RE: [New-Poetry] Fw: [NarcissusWorks] 12/29/2007 10:24:00 PM My two computers have these Ballardini backgrounds currently. -----Original Message----- From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Anny Ballardini Sent: Saturday, December 29, 2007 3:41 PM To: New Poetry Subject: [New-Poetry] Fw: [NarcissusWorks] 12/29/2007 10:24:00 PM I posted several pics on my blog, any comment would be much appreciated. ----- Original Message ----- From: Anny Ballardini To: anny.ballardini at tin.it Sent: Saturday, December 29, 2007 10:27 PM Subject: [NarcissusWorks] 12/29/2007 10:24:00 PM -- Posted By Anny Ballardini to NarcissusWorks at 12/29/2007 10:24:00 PM ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames Wed Jan 2 15:44:20 2008 From: jforjames (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Wed, 02 Jan 2008 15:44:20 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Spoken Word Redux In-Reply-To: <3FFFFC39-B2F7-408B-A3A6-5B71EB51F5DB@ripon.edu> References: <3FFFFC39-B2F7-408B-A3A6-5B71EB51F5DB@ripon.edu> Message-ID: <8CA1B9762A22002-DDC-CB0@webmail-md18.sysops.aol.com> Glancing through a recent AWP Chronicle recently I reminded again of proliferation of?the?MFA in Poetry programs out there, and then?your post got me wondering about how many of them have a concentration/track in performance poetry? I'm pretty sure that?'performance'?would be an optional?track?at Naropa and maybe some of the programs associated with Art/alternative schools, but I wonder if many of the older/traditional university-based MFA programs give performance poetry?more than cursory treatment? My?guess?is that performance poetry is?not widely accepted?as being on?equal footing with text-based practice. Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: David Graham To: NewPoetry & Views Sent: Wed, 2 Jan 2008 1:25 pm Subject: [New-Poetry] Spoken Word Redux New book recommendation-- I've been looking at the anthology *The Spoken Word Revolution Redux*, which is a sequel to *The Spoken Word Revolution* of a couple years back, both edited by Mark Eleveld. ?From Sourcebooks. ?To my mind, it's an even better collection than the first one. ? There are by now a number of anthologies and texts that cover performance/slam/spoken word poetry, some more dross-heavy than others. ?I think this is one of the better ones. ?Like the earlier book, this sequel makes an effort at bridge-building between the "academic" and the "street" scenes by including pieces by more mainstream academic figures (Ted Kooser, Billy Collins, Robert Creeley, e.g.) as well as brief essays about various issues. ?Particularly strong essays by James Fenton ("The Raised Voice of Poetry") and Henry Taylor ("Read by the Author: ?Some Notes on Poetry in Performance"). ?I like it that the editor doesn't adopt an adversarial stance toward tradition or indulge in the usual mindless professor-bashing. ?New features in the latest book include a section of international poems, a little mini-symposium/tribute to Creeley, and more attention to the music/poetry nexus. ? Like the first book, this one also comes with a CD, including poets reading as well as commentary on the scene. ?I wish it came with 5 CDs--too many of the pieces are merely excerpted, and my relish for Marc Smith's commentary is not infinite--but it's a good start, anyway. ?All anthologies these days should come with CDs, in my opinion, particularly of poems performed live rather than in the studio. ? ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/About%20Me.html Poetry Library: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== = _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry ________________________________________________________________________ More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://webmail.aol.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jfq Wed Jan 2 15:45:50 2008 From: jfq (jfq at myuw.net) Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2008 12:45:50 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] Questions on form In-Reply-To: <9b1b9dab0801012148w1e155956le3b1376696f87d53@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: So since we've started having this conversation I've been sort of compulsively repeating the word "different" to myself in different contexts and have come to the conclusion that I have three wholely different pronunciations of it. When I subvocalize, speak in a more formal register, or use it as a direct object of the copula, I say "different" with the very de-emphasized schwa. If I'm talking in my normal casual register I say "diffrent" with no third syllable. If I'm talking really fast I say "Diffrn'" with a glottal stop in place of the aspirated "t" following the n, which sounds almost sounds like the southern "differnt." But since this is the formal register of poetry and it's subvocalized, in this case I see it as "different". But in any case, this is all drifting from my point which is I don't think syllable counts matter all that much in English verse, and that's the reason that we can all perceive the rhythm in the lines in question even though we all evidently pronounce certain words differently enough to make our syllable counts different. Which I think works because the reason is because all the extra syllables are unstressed and so don't change the overall number of primary and secondary stresses in a line, which is all that is needed to establish a meter. On Tue, 1 Jan 2008, Chris Lott wrote: > I understand where the 4th syllables are supposed to be, I just don't > ever hear anyone actually verbalizing them. In my head they sound > different, particularly when spelled to reflect the missing syllable > (different vs diffrent) but in reality I and everyone else I can think > of (I'lll have to pay more attention) actually *say* it as "diffrent" > ... > > I grew up in the Pacific Northwest and Alaska... > > c > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > From jfq Wed Jan 2 15:50:19 2008 From: jfq (jfq at myuw.net) Date: Wed, 2