From halvard at earthlink.net Tue Apr 1 08:40:11 2008 From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson) Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2008 08:40:11 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] RIP: Rochelle Ratner (1948-2008) Message-ID: <4A5D1C1A-2562-475E-A4D5-F407E5D43582@earthlink.net> Dress Rehearsal I love you like wood and you laugh with high birds I can't see. White flat ducks wake the morning to leaves that have slanted from night. Talk . . . talk . . . I hear noises-- It's only the fish that are flying now, bodies and words. Borrowed sunlight is crossing our sleep like a child in the woods. It's cold and then warm in the haloes, the dark strung together like travel. Time was geology then. It was summer. We always had friends. --Rochelle Ratner fr. A Birthday of Waters [New York: New Rivers Press, 1971] Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Tue Apr 1 11:35:25 2008 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Tue, 01 Apr 2008 10:35:25 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] RIP: Rochelle Ratner (1948-2008) In-Reply-To: <4A5D1C1A-2562-475E-A4D5-F407E5D43582@earthlink.net> References: <4A5D1C1A-2562-475E-A4D5-F407E5D43582@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <47F2563D.9040401@nut-n-but.net> A shock. Very sorry to hear. Excellent poet and photographer--and a great editor to work with when she was with American Book Review. She left way too soon. --Bob G. From AlMaginnes at aol.com Tue Apr 1 12:42:24 2008 From: AlMaginnes at aol.com (AlMaginnes at aol.com) Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2008 12:42:24 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] RIP: Rochelle Ratner (1948-2008) Message-ID: Damn, I'm sorry to hear this. **************Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL Home. (http://home.aol.com/diy/home-improvement-eric-stromer?video=15&ncid=aolhom00030000000001) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at tin.it Tue Apr 1 15:49:28 2008 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2008 21:49:28 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] RIP: Rochelle Ratner (1948-2008) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I did not know Rochelle Ratner but I received a very sad note by Karl Young who forwarded the following links: "you can see some of her work and my most important essay on her at http://www.marclweber.com/sugarmule/sm17.htm her own web site is at http://home.mindspring.com/~rochelleratner/ one of the important sets of essays for us, in which I pushed my ideas about reviewing from multiple points of view is on-line at http://www.thing.net/~grist/l&d/le-ry-jt.htm" ----- Original Message ----- From: AlMaginnes at aol.com To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2008 6:42 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] RIP: Rochelle Ratner (1948-2008) Damn, I'm sorry to hear this. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at tin.it Tue Apr 1 16:32:26 2008 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2008 22:32:26 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] RIP: Rochelle Ratner (1948-2008) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <509E0A34D8C147AF93BF88F195552FC3@AnnyPC> I did know Rochelle, I am sorry, how could I forget that vivid swirl of energy around me? http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=Content&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=249 ----- Original Message ----- From: Anny Ballardini To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2008 9:49 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] RIP: Rochelle Ratner (1948-2008) I did not know Rochelle Ratner but I received a very sad note by Karl Young who forwarded the following links: "you can see some of her work and my most important essay on her at http://www.marclweber.com/sugarmule/sm17.htm her own web site is at http://home.mindspring.com/~rochelleratner/ one of the important sets of essays for us, in which I pushed my ideas about reviewing from multiple points of view is on-line at http://www.thing.net/~grist/l&d/le-ry-jt.htm" ----- Original Message ----- From: AlMaginnes at aol.com To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2008 6:42 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] RIP: Rochelle Ratner (1948-2008) Damn, I'm sorry to hear this. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.2/1353 - Release Date: 3/31/2008 6:21 PM -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tony at starve.org Wed Apr 2 08:56:57 2008 From: tony at starve.org (Tony Trigilio) Date: Wed, 02 Apr 2008 07:56:57 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Apr. 9: Alice Notley, Rachel Zucker at Columbia College Chicago Message-ID: <47F38299.40800@starve.org> ALICE NOTLEY & RACHEL ZUCKER ELMA STUCKEY MEMORIAL READING COLUMBIA COLLEGE CHICAGO Wednesday, April 9, 2008, 5:30 p.m. Music Center Concert Hall 1014 South Michigan Avenue For more information: (312) 344-8819 Free and open to the public RACHEL ZUCKER is the author of three books of poetry: THE BAD WIFE HANDBOOK, THE LAST CLEAR NARRATIVE, and EATING IN THE UNDERWORLD. She is co-editor, along with poet Arielle Greenberg, of WOMEN POETS ON MENTORSHIP: EFFORTS AND AFFECTIONS, which will be published by the University of Iowa Press in 2008. Zucker was the poet in residence at Fordham University and has taught at Yale and NYU. She is also a certified labor doula. For more information please visit www.rachelzucker.net. ALICE NOTLEY was born in 1945 and educated at Barnard College and at The Writers Workshop, University of Iowa. During the late 60s and early 70s she lived a traveling poet?s life (San Francisco, Bolinas, London, Wivenhoe, Chicago) before settling on New York?s Lower East Side and becoming an important figure in the second-generation New York School. Notley, who has resided in Paris for the past fifteen years, is the author of more than twenty-five books of poetry including the epic poem THE DESCENT OF ALETTE, and MYSTERIES OF SMALL HOUSES, one of three finalists for the Pulitzer Prize and the winner of the Los Angeles Times Book Prize for Poetry. Notley?s long poem DISOBEDIENCE won the Griffin International Prize in 2002. In 2005 the University of Michigan Press published her book of essays on poetry, COMING AFTER. Notley recently edited THE COLLECTED POEMS OF TED BERRIGAN, with her sons Anselm Berrigan and Edmund Berrigan as co-editors. Her most recent books are ALMA, OR THE DEAD WOMEN, from Granary Books, GRAVE OF LIGHT: NEW AND SELECTED POEMS, from Wesleyan, and IN THE PINES from Penguin in 2007. Sponsored by the English Department of Columbia College Chicago, the annual Elma Stuckey Memorial reading honors the poet Elma Stuckey, author of THE BIG GATE (1976) and THE COLLECTED POEMS OF ELMA STUCKEY (1987). From grahamd at ripon.edu Wed Apr 2 10:00:43 2008 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2008 09:00:43 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] No Tell Goodman Message-ID: <11AD7080-998C-45B2-97B3-2283B1BB68F9@ripon.edu> The featured poet at No Tell Motel this week is Brent Goodman, a former student of mine and a very fine poet. Each day a new poem will be added: http://www.notellmotel.org/ The poems featured are tiny experimental proselets from a recent series Brent's done--and will be included in his forthcoming debut collection, *The Brother Swimming Beneath Me*, from Black Lawrence Press. (He's also published two chapbooks.) More Goodman poems can be found on his blog: http://brent-goodman.blogspot.com/ ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.mac.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Opus40-01 at opus40.org Wed Apr 2 21:17:38 2008 From: Opus40-01 at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Wed, 02 Apr 2008 21:17:38 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] A Poem a Day Message-ID: <47F43032.5050500@opus40.org> I don't exactly know what possessed me, but I've taken the challenge of Robert Lee Brewer at Writers Digest to celebrate National Poetry Month by writing a poem every day for thirty days, on a prompt of his choosing. To make it a little harder on myself, I'm going to try to write them all in my 5/4 syllabic form, and develop a narrative of sorts/ If anyone wants to follow this foolishness, I'm posting them on my blog as I go. -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ The moral is this: in American verse, The better you are, the pay is worse. --Corey Ford From jforjames at aol.com Thu Apr 3 11:08:18 2008 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Thu, 03 Apr 2008 11:08:18 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Beall Poetry Fest at Baylor Message-ID: <8CA63B3AEC2F19A-1130-EFD@webmail-db16.sysops.aol.com> http://www.baylor.edu/lariat/news.php?action=story&story=50184 Renowned poets, critic gather for Beall festival April 3, 2008 Erika Pedroza Reporter Three renowned poets, a critic, poetry enthusiasts and the surrounding community will gather on campus for the 14th annual Beall Poetry Festival today through Saturday. "The purpose of this event is to bring contemporary poets to campus who have national and sometimes international reputations so that students and community members have the opportunity to hear them read their work," said Dr. Nancy Chinn, English department associate professor and Beall Poetry Festival chairwoman. The festival is funded by an ongoing endowment made by 1940 Baylor alumna and English major, Virginia Beall Ball. "She was here when A.J. Armstrong wanted to build what became the Armstrong Browning Library," Chinn said. "He would bring in poets to raise the money needed to build the library. At these events, she heard great poets and loved the experience. She decided to provide an endowment to keep this opportunity available." -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Thu Apr 3 17:13:55 2008 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Thu, 03 Apr 2008 17:13:55 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Sonnet Contest, Prarie Home Companion Message-ID: <8CA63E6C277430F-11AC-275B@webmail-db18.sysops.aol.com> http://prairiehome.publicradio.org/ ? It is time for another poetry contest on A Prairie Home Companion and we've decided to make it a sonnet contest and to hold it on April 12, read the best entrants on our live broadcast from New York, and invite our audience ? at home and at the theater ? to vote a winner. We'll accept rhymed or unrhymed fourteen-line sonnets. We think they should be love poems, but love of what, who's to say. Absolutely must be original. Must be submitted by Friday, April 11, at midnight CST. The first prize ? from Select Comfort ? will be a Sleep Number queen-size bed along with three dozen roses ? a bed of roses delivered to your door ? a source of untold joy, not to mention untold sleep. ? http://prairiehome.publicradio.org/features/lyrics/rules.shtml -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at tin.it Thu Apr 3 17:18:56 2008 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2008 23:18:56 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Sonnet Contest, Prarie Home Companion In-Reply-To: <8CA63E6C277430F-11AC-275B@webmail-db18.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CA63E6C277430F-11AC-275B@webmail-db18.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <8509D8F11E9F456FBB6E4968443A63CD@AnnyPC> lovely, Hal you will soon have a 'bed of roses!' Go for it, :-) From: jforjames at aol.com Sent: Thursday, April 03, 2008 11:13 PM http://prairiehome.publicradio.org/ It is time for another poetry contest on A Prairie Home Companion and we've decided to make it a sonnet contest and to hold it on April 12, read the best entrants on our live broadcast from New York, and invite our audience ? at home and at the theater ? to vote a winner. We'll accept rhymed or unrhymed fourteen-line sonnets. We think they should be love poems, but love of what, who's to say. Absolutely must be original. Must be submitted by Friday, April 11, at midnight CST. The first prize ? from Select Comfort ? will be a Sleep Number queen-size bed along with three dozen roses ? a bed of roses delivered to your door ? a source of untold joy, not to mention untold sleep. http://prairiehome.publicradio.org/features/lyrics/rules.shtml _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From amyhappens at yahoo.com Thu Apr 3 18:21:13 2008 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king) Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2008 15:21:13 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Stellar Audio of Megan Volpert, Deborah Poe, & Laura Mullen Message-ID: <23605.56327.qm@web83301.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> For an excellent poetry reading from Brooklyn, perk up your ears here: Deborah Poe ? http://odeo.com/audio/17981583/view Megan A. Volpert ? http://odeo.com/audio/17981433/view Laura Mullen ? http://odeo.com/audio/17981483/view Enjoy! Amy _______ http://www.amyking.org http://redherring.us ____________________________________________________________________________________ You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster Total Access, No Cost. http://tc.deals.yahoo.com/tc/blockbuster/text5.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Thu Apr 3 19:36:59 2008 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Thu, 03 Apr 2008 18:36:59 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Sonnet Contest, Prarie Home Companion In-Reply-To: <8CA63E6C277430F-11AC-275B@webmail-db18.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CA63E6C277430F-11AC-275B@webmail-db18.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <47F56A1B.905@nut-n-but.net> I'm no good at sonnets, but I'll send them an unrhymed fourteen-line haiku. --Bob G. jforjames at aol.com wrote: > http://prairiehome.publicradio.org/ > > It is time for another poetry contest on A Prairie Home Companion and > we've decided to make it a sonnet contest and to hold it on April 12, > read the best entrants on our live broadcast from New York, and invite > our audience ? at home and at the theater ? to vote a winner. > > We'll accept rhymed or unrhymed fourteen-line sonnets. We think they > should be love poems, but love of what, who's to say. Absolutely must > be original. Must be submitted by Friday, April 11, at midnight CST. > The first prize ? from Select Comfort ? will be a Sleep Number > queen-size bed along with three dozen roses ? a bed of roses delivered > to your door ? a source of untold joy, not to mention untold sleep. > > http://prairiehome.publicradio.org/features/lyrics/rules.shtml > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Get the MapQuest Toolbar > , Maps, > Traffic, Directions & More! > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames at aol.com Thu Apr 3 18:38:31 2008 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2008 18:38:31 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Sonnet Contest, Prarie Home Companion Message-ID: In a message dated 4/3/2008 6:35:15 PM Eastern Daylight Time, bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net writes: I'm no good at sonnets, but I'll send them an unrhymed fourteen-line haiku. --Bob G. Bob, For a guy who likes taxonomy you're very resistant to pigeonholes. Finnegan **************Planning your summer road trip? Check out AOL Travel Guides. (http://travel.aol.com/travel-guide/united-states?ncid=aoltrv00030000000016) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Thu Apr 3 22:17:50 2008 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Thu, 03 Apr 2008 21:17:50 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Sonnet Contest, Prarie Home Companion In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <47F58FCE.4010009@nut-n-but.net> JforJames at aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 4/3/2008 6:35:15 PM Eastern Daylight Time, > bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net writes: > > I'm no good at sonnets, but I'll send them an unrhymed > fourteen-line haiku. > > --Bob G. > > Bob, > For a guy who likes taxonomy you're very resistant to pigeonholes. > Finnegan > > Yikes, Jim, surely you didn't fail to read me as scornful of the idea of unrhymed sonnets? In fact, I have a comparison of the terms, "sonnet" and "haiku" in my head waiting for delivery to my blog one of these days. I may seem inconsistent to some in believing a sonnet should be 14 rhyming iambic pentameters while not believing a haiku should be three lines, the first and third with five syllables, the other with seven syllables. My reason reduces to my belief that the sonnet is importantly a sound-mechanism, the haiku an image-mechanism. What a poetic form most is should be inviolable, but the details allowed to mutate. So I accept an aba cbc dcd efefd rhyme scheme for a sonnet because the placement of the rhymenants seems unimportant to me, so long as they are in it. And how is the 9/5 division that different from octave/sestet? A haiku should be short, but who cares exactly how many syllables it has. Etc. Looks like my blog entry is under way. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jfq at myuw.net Fri Apr 4 00:15:40 2008 From: jfq at myuw.net (Jason Quackenbush) Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2008 21:15:40 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Sonnet Contest, Prarie Home Companion In-Reply-To: <47F58FCE.4010009@nut-n-but.net> References: <47F58FCE.4010009@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: can a sonnet be in dactylic hexameter? how about choriambic dodecameter? On Apr 3, 2008, at 7:17 PM, Bob Grumman wrote: > > > JforJames at aol.com wrote: >> In a message dated 4/3/2008 6:35:15 PM Eastern Daylight Time, >> bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net writes: >> >> I'm no good at sonnets, but I'll send them an unrhymed >> fourteen-line haiku. >> >> --Bob G. >> >> Bob, >> For a guy who likes taxonomy you're very resistant to pigeonholes. >> Finnegan >> >> > Yikes, Jim, surely you didn't fail to read me as scornful of the > idea of unrhymed sonnets? In fact, I have a comparison of the > terms, "sonnet" and "haiku" in my head waiting for delivery to my > blog one of these days. I may seem inconsistent to some in > believing a sonnet should be 14 rhyming iambic pentameters while > not believing a haiku should be three lines, the first and third > with five syllables, the other with seven syllables. My reason > reduces to my belief that the sonnet is importantly a sound- > mechanism, the haiku an image-mechanism. What a poetic form most > is should be inviolable, but the details allowed to mutate. So I > accept an aba cbc dcd efefd rhyme scheme for a sonnet because the > placement of the rhymenants seems unimportant to me, so long as > they are in it. And how is the 9/5 division that different from > octave/sestet? A haiku should be short, but who cares exactly how > many syllables it has. Etc. > > Looks like my blog entry is under way. > > --Bob > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Fri Apr 4 07:28:15 2008 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Fri, 04 Apr 2008 06:28:15 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Sonnet Contest, Prarie Home Companion In-Reply-To: References: <47F58FCE.4010009@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <47F610CF.2060808@nut-n-but.net> Jason Quackenbush wrote: > can a sonnet be in dactylic hexameter? how about choriambic dodecameter? (1) No matter how you define a set of objects, there will always be what I call "borblurs": objects at the borders of your definition that are maybe in the set, maybe not. (2) Ultimately, it's a subjective matter as to what constitute the essence of a set of objects, or what makes the objects in it what they most importantly are. My subjective view is that dactyl goes against the lyrical seriousness I consider one of a sonnet's essentials, and that hexameters go against the sonnet's essential size and shape. I consider a sonnet (approximately) equal in length to what I consider a full reflection for most people, and iambic pentameters to, well, a natural line of thought, and breath. Maybe that's because I was brought up on it, but I don't think so. Hexameters, I think, are longer than my innate thought-lines. Maybe they're the same lengths as some others' lines of thought, though. So I muse. I don't know what a choriambic dodecameter is but it sounds to dumb to work for a sonnet. I think one essence of a sonnet is smoothness. So I personally would reject it and the other as sonnets. As borblurs of the set, sonnets, too. They'd probably make good haiku, though. Thanks for helping me extend my draft of a blog entry, Jason! --Bob G . From pmetres at jcu.edu Fri Apr 4 07:45:53 2008 From: pmetres at jcu.edu (Philip Metres) Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2008 07:45:53 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: New-Poetry Digest, Vol 46, Issue 3 Message-ID: <20080404074553.BKM70492@mirapoint.jcu.edu> March 2008 on Behind the Lines: check it: 3/23: Peace Protesters Stage Dramatic Die-in... Obama and Israel: Abunimah's Analysis Mark Doty Reading Walt Whitman's "Over the Carnage... To See the Earth review in Jacket Jay Hopler and Cate Marvin reading, a postmortem The Sidewalk Blogger in Hawai'i Marks the 4,000th ... "Charlie Don't Surf"/From Apocalypse Now to Sandin... Outkast's "B.O.B." (Bombs Over Baghdad)/Another Ca... Split This Rock conference notes... The Clash's "Rock the Casbah"/This Music Converts ... Poems on/about the Vietnam Veteran's Memorial The Status of Narrative and the Avant-Garde/Arab... Rachel Loden's Hotel Imperium/One Upon Whom Nothing is Lost Four Poets at Visible Voice, March 19, 2008 On the 5th Year Anniversary of This Unnecessary Wa... Send Your Poems about James Brown Wafaa Bilal's "Virtual Jihadi"/We Tolerate Video Games Only When they Murder Others... The Daily Show Makes Anti-War Protestors Look Sill... Amiri Baraka's "Political Poem"/What is Luxury? This is the Film My Library Wouldn't Show/"Searchi... "The Torturer's Top Tunes" thanks to David Chirot The Harassment of Professor Thomas Abowd at Wayne State Campaign of Solidarity with Women Resisting U.S. War... Israel/Palestine Comes to Cleveland Heights... Kenneth Rexroth's "Thou Shalt Not Kill" The Beautiful Chaos of Ash Bowie, Helium Bassist a... Bill Howe's "Words Change" Get Lit 2008: A Postmortem David-Baptiste Chirot on the New House Bill to End... Ali Abunimah on the recent events in Israel/Palest... "The Gaza Bombshell"/The Bush Administration's Bay... The Disposable Heroes of Hipoprisy's "Television, ... The Moe Green Radio Hour Featuring Harvey Shapiro,... Sheryl Crow's "Shine Over Babylon"/Ripped Out of t... Public Enemy's "Fight the Power" video(s) + "Son o... Public Enemy's "911 is a Joke"/Somebody Call an Am... Big Bridge 2008 is out/Check out The War Papers (2... Freshen' Up Your Drink, Guv'nor?/Paul Kramer's "Th... Philip Metres Associate Professor Department of English John Carroll University 20700 N. Park Blvd University Heights, OH 44118 phone: (216) 397-4528 (work) fax: (216) 397-1723 http://www.philipmetres.com http://www.behindthelinespoetry.blogspot.com From anny.ballardini at tin.it Fri Apr 4 12:40:23 2008 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2008 18:40:23 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] from Lori Emerson - bp Nichol In-Reply-To: <20080404074553.BKM70492@mirapoint.jcu.edu> References: <20080404074553.BKM70492@mirapoint.jcu.edu> Message-ID: <4E06763787A241DA8F8179F8F551B9F6@AnnyPC> Dear all, After years of planning we are pleased to launch bpNichol.ca, an online public archive of the works of bpNichol and his collaborators. Here (http://www.bpnichol.ca) you will find audio, digitized print materials, photographs, links and eventually video, critical articles and curated exhibitions. The site was developed by the Artmob project in collaboration with Ellie Nichol, and is designed as a not-for-profit community initiative. It is intended as the start of a process, and we encourage everyone to read our submission guidelines if you have material you would like to contribute or an idea for an exhibition of bp's work. Artmob is a York University-based research project dedicated to building accessible public archives of Canadian art. Over the coming years Artmob will add tools to improve the browsing and cataloguing. It will also provide novel approaches to intellectual property, encouraging contributors to identify themselves and set the terms of use for their works. Artmob hopes that a spirit of fair dealing will assist in getting artistic materials out of shoeboxes and filing cabinets and into the world where they belong. bpNichol.ca is Artmob's pilot project. Please explore, enjoy, and contact us/me if you have any materials you'd like to contribute! http://www.bpnichol.ca best, Lori Emerson From alexdickow9 at yahoo.com Fri Apr 4 14:56:54 2008 From: alexdickow9 at yahoo.com (Alexander Dickow) Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2008 11:56:54 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] terror dactyls In-Reply-To: <200804041700.m34H05cO027643@wiz.cath.vt.edu> Message-ID: <342200.46234.qm@web35504.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Bob Grumman wrote: "dactyl goes against the lyrical seriousness I consider one of a sonnet's essentials" That seems odd to me, Bob, since the dactyl's "proper place" has historically been the "highest" genre of all (to some), the epic. They can be used quite forcefully even in English, and seem to me to suit "lyric seriousness" perfectly well. But then, I'm profoundly, almost viscerally opposed to the notion that metrical forms "naturally" correspond to any stylistic register -- especially that of "natural breath" or "natural speech" (besides, if you really want to imitate whatever you think is "natural speech", why not use non-accentual syllabic rhythms, which can satisfy the taste for symmetry without the thoroughly artificial constraints of the iamb, or any regular foot for that matter? I love syllabics). The assertion that anything is "natural" just makes every critical bone in my body ache.... With all due respect.... Amicalement, Alex --- new-poetry-request at wiz.cath.vt.edu wrote: > Send New-Poetry mailing list submissions to > new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, > visit > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > or, via email, send a message with subject or body > 'help' to > new-poetry-request at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > You can reach the person managing the list at > new-poetry-owner at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it > is more specific > than "Re: Contents of New-Poetry digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Sonnet Contest, Prarie Home Companion > (jforjames at aol.com) > 2. Re: Sonnet Contest, Prarie Home Companion > (Anny Ballardini) > 3. Stellar Audio of Megan Volpert, Deborah Poe, & > Laura Mullen > (amy king) > 4. Re: Sonnet Contest, Prarie Home Companion (Bob > Grumman) > 5. Re: Sonnet Contest, Prarie Home Companion > (JforJames at aol.com) > 6. Re: Sonnet Contest, Prarie Home Companion (Bob > Grumman) > 7. Re: Sonnet Contest, Prarie Home Companion > (Jason Quackenbush) > 8. Re: Sonnet Contest, Prarie Home Companion (Bob > Grumman) > 9. Re: New-Poetry Digest, Vol 46, Issue 3 (Philip > Metres) > 10. from Lori Emerson - bp Nichol (Anny > Ballardini) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Thu, 03 Apr 2008 17:13:55 -0400 > From: jforjames at aol.com > Subject: [New-Poetry] Sonnet Contest, Prarie Home > Companion > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Message-ID: > <8CA63E6C277430F-11AC-275B at webmail-db18.sysops.aol.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > > http://prairiehome.publicradio.org/ > > ?? > It is time for another poetry contest on A Prairie > Home Companion and we've decided to make it a sonnet > contest and to hold it on April 12, read the best > entrants on our live broadcast from New York, and > invite our audience ??? at home and at the theater > ??? to vote a winner. > > > We'll accept rhymed or unrhymed fourteen-line > sonnets. We think they should be love poems, but > love of what, who's to say. Absolutely must be > original. Must be submitted by Friday, April 11, at > midnight CST. > > The first prize ??? from Select Comfort ??? will be > a Sleep Number queen-size bed along with three dozen > roses ??? a bed of roses delivered to your door ??? > a source of untold joy, not to mention untold sleep. > > ?? > http://prairiehome.publicradio.org/features/lyrics/rules.shtml > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080403/b7053b50/attachment-0001.html > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2008 23:18:56 +0200 > From: "Anny Ballardini" > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Sonnet Contest, Prarie > Home Companion > To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & > Views" > > Message-ID: > <8509D8F11E9F456FBB6E4968443A63CD at AnnyPC> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > lovely, Hal you will soon have a 'bed of roses!' Go > for it, :-) > From: jforjames at aol.com > Sent: Thursday, April 03, 2008 11:13 PM > > > http://prairiehome.publicradio.org/ > > It is time for another poetry contest on A Prairie > Home Companion and we've decided to make it a sonnet > contest and to hold it on April 12, read the best > entrants on our live broadcast from New York, and > invite our audience ??? at home and at the theater > ??? to vote a winner. > > We'll accept rhymed or unrhymed fourteen-line > sonnets. We think they should be love poems, but > love of what, who's to say. Absolutely must be > original. Must be submitted by Friday, April 11, at > midnight CST. > The first prize ??? from Select Comfort ??? will > be a Sleep Number queen-size bed along with three > dozen roses ??? a bed of roses delivered to your > door ??? a source of untold joy, not to mention > untold sleep. > > > http://prairiehome.publicradio.org/features/lyrics/rules.shtml > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080403/f8176742/attachment-0001.html > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2008 15:21:13 -0700 (PDT) > From: amy king > Subject: [New-Poetry] Stellar Audio of Megan > Volpert, Deborah Poe, & > Laura Mullen > To: POETICS at LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU, "NewPoetry: > Contemporary Poetry News > & Views" > Message-ID: > <23605.56327.qm at web83301.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" > > For an excellent poetry reading from Brooklyn, perk > up your ears here: > > > > Deborah Poe ? http://odeo.com/audio/17981583/view > > > > Megan A. Volpert ? > http://odeo.com/audio/17981433/view > > > > Laura Mullen ? http://odeo.com/audio/17981483/view > > > > Enjoy! > > Amy > > > > > _______ > > http://www.amyking.org > http://redherring.us > > > > > > > ____________________________________________________________________________________ > You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one > month of Blockbuster Total Access, No Cost. > http://tc.deals.yahoo.com/tc/blockbuster/text5.com > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080403/8eabb452/attachment-0001.html > > ------------------------------ > === message truncated === www.alexdickow.net/blog/ les mots! ah quel d?sert ? la fin merveilleux. -- Henri Droguet From Opus40-01 at opus40.org Fri Apr 4 15:02:58 2008 From: Opus40-01 at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Fri, 04 Apr 2008 15:02:58 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] terror dactyls In-Reply-To: <342200.46234.qm@web35504.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <342200.46234.qm@web35504.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <47F67B62.80702@opus40.org> On dactyls used for a serious purpose. http://jacketmagazine.com/26/rich-finch.html Alexander Dickow wrote: > Bob Grumman wrote: > "dactyl goes against the lyrical seriousness > I > consider one of a sonnet's essentials" > > That seems odd to me, Bob, since the dactyl's "proper > place" has historically been the "highest" genre of > all (to some), the epic. They can be used quite > forcefully even in English, and seem to me to suit > "lyric seriousness" perfectly well. But then, I'm > profoundly, almost viscerally opposed to the notion > that metrical forms "naturally" correspond to any > stylistic register -- especially that of "natural > breath" or "natural speech" (besides, if you really > want to imitate whatever you think is "natural > speech", why not use non-accentual syllabic rhythms, > which can satisfy the taste for symmetry without the > thoroughly artificial constraints of the iamb, or any > regular foot for that matter? I love syllabics). The > assertion that anything is "natural" just makes every > critical bone in my body ache.... > With all due respect.... > Amicalement, > Alex > > --- new-poetry-request at wiz.cath.vt.edu wrote: > > >> Send New-Poetry mailing list submissions to >> new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> >> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, >> visit >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> or, via email, send a message with subject or body >> 'help' to >> new-poetry-request at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> >> You can reach the person managing the list at >> new-poetry-owner at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> >> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it >> is more specific >> than "Re: Contents of New-Poetry digest..." >> >> >> Today's Topics: >> >> 1. Sonnet Contest, Prarie Home Companion >> (jforjames at aol.com) >> 2. Re: Sonnet Contest, Prarie Home Companion >> (Anny Ballardini) >> 3. Stellar Audio of Megan Volpert, Deborah Poe, & >> Laura Mullen >> (amy king) >> 4. Re: Sonnet Contest, Prarie Home Companion (Bob >> Grumman) >> 5. Re: Sonnet Contest, Prarie Home Companion >> (JforJames at aol.com) >> 6. Re: Sonnet Contest, Prarie Home Companion (Bob >> Grumman) >> 7. Re: Sonnet Contest, Prarie Home Companion >> (Jason Quackenbush) >> 8. Re: Sonnet Contest, Prarie Home Companion (Bob >> Grumman) >> 9. Re: New-Poetry Digest, Vol 46, Issue 3 (Philip >> Metres) >> 10. from Lori Emerson - bp Nichol (Anny >> Ballardini) >> >> >> >> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > >> Message: 1 >> Date: Thu, 03 Apr 2008 17:13:55 -0400 >> From: jforjames at aol.com >> Subject: [New-Poetry] Sonnet Contest, Prarie Home >> Companion >> To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> Message-ID: >> >> > <8CA63E6C277430F-11AC-275B at webmail-db18.sysops.aol.com> > >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" >> >> >> http://prairiehome.publicradio.org/ >> >> ? >> It is time for another poetry contest on A Prairie >> Home Companion and we've decided to make it a sonnet >> contest and to hold it on April 12, read the best >> entrants on our live broadcast from New York, and >> invite our audience ??? at home and at the theater >> ??? to vote a winner. >> >> >> We'll accept rhymed or unrhymed fourteen-line >> sonnets. We think they should be love poems, but >> love of what, who's to say. Absolutely must be >> original. Must be submitted by Friday, April 11, at >> midnight CST. >> >> The first prize ??? from Select Comfort ??? will be >> a Sleep Number queen-size bed along with three dozen >> roses ??? a bed of roses delivered to your door ??? >> a source of untold joy, not to mention untold sleep. >> >> ? >> >> > http://prairiehome.publicradio.org/features/lyrics/rules.shtml > >> -------------- next part -------------- >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >> URL: >> >> > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080403/b7053b50/attachment-0001.html > >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 2 >> Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2008 23:18:56 +0200 >> From: "Anny Ballardini" >> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Sonnet Contest, Prarie >> Home Companion >> To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & >> Views" >> >> Message-ID: >> <8509D8F11E9F456FBB6E4968443A63CD at AnnyPC> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" >> >> lovely, Hal you will soon have a 'bed of roses!' Go >> for it, :-) >> From: jforjames at aol.com >> Sent: Thursday, April 03, 2008 11:13 PM >> >> >> http://prairiehome.publicradio.org/ >> >> It is time for another poetry contest on A Prairie >> Home Companion and we've decided to make it a sonnet >> contest and to hold it on April 12, read the best >> entrants on our live broadcast from New York, and >> invite our audience ??? at home and at the theater >> ??? to vote a winner. >> >> We'll accept rhymed or unrhymed fourteen-line >> sonnets. We think they should be love poems, but >> love of what, who's to say. Absolutely must be >> original. Must be submitted by Friday, April 11, at >> midnight CST. >> The first prize ??? from Select Comfort ??? will >> be a Sleep Number queen-size bed along with three >> dozen roses ??? a bed of roses delivered to your >> door ??? a source of untold joy, not to mention >> untold sleep. >> >> >> >> > http://prairiehome.publicradio.org/features/lyrics/rules.shtml > >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> >> >> >> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >> -------------- next part -------------- >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >> URL: >> >> > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080403/f8176742/attachment-0001.html > >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 3 >> Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2008 15:21:13 -0700 (PDT) >> From: amy king >> Subject: [New-Poetry] Stellar Audio of Megan >> Volpert, Deborah Poe, & >> Laura Mullen >> To: POETICS at LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU, "NewPoetry: >> Contemporary Poetry News >> & Views" >> Message-ID: >> <23605.56327.qm at web83301.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" >> >> For an excellent poetry reading from Brooklyn, perk >> up your ears here: >> >> >> >> Deborah Poe ? http://odeo.com/audio/17981583/view >> >> >> >> Megan A. Volpert ? >> http://odeo.com/audio/17981433/view >> >> >> >> Laura Mullen ? http://odeo.com/audio/17981483/view >> >> >> >> Enjoy! >> >> Amy >> >> >> >> >> _______ >> >> http://www.amyking.org >> http://redherring.us >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > ____________________________________________________________________________________ > >> You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one >> month of Blockbuster Total Access, No Cost. >> http://tc.deals.yahoo.com/tc/blockbuster/text5.com >> -------------- next part -------------- >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >> URL: >> >> > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080403/8eabb452/attachment-0001.html > >> ------------------------------ >> >> > === message truncated === > > > www.alexdickow.net/blog/ > > les mots! ah quel d?sert ? la fin > merveilleux. -- Henri Droguet > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ The moral is this: in American verse, The better you are, the pay is worse. --Corey Ford From shin02143 at aol.com Fri Apr 4 16:26:50 2008 From: shin02143 at aol.com (shin02143 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 04 Apr 2008 16:26:50 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Merrill Moore's sonnets In-Reply-To: <47F67B62.80702@opus40.org> References: <342200.46234.qm@web35504.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <47F67B62.80702@opus40.org> Message-ID: <8CA64A9591A01C8-1678-108C@FWM-M38.sysops.aol.com> Has anyone here read any of Merrill Moore's 50,000-odd sonnets? About 1500 of them have made it into print. He was a psychiatrist/MD. I believe one of his patients was Robert Lowell. Moore wrote sonnets at any and every possible opportunity, including scribbling while waiting in his car at a red light. Some are quite free-form including irregular line lengths, odd rhyme schemes, sometimes other than 14 lines. An interesting fellow. Amazing output for someone who had a full career as a doctor and only lived into his 50s. Richard -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at tin.it Fri Apr 4 17:12:15 2008 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2008 23:12:15 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Happy! In-Reply-To: <8CA64A9591A01C8-1678-108C@FWM-M38.sysops.aol.com> References: <342200.46234.qm@web35504.mail.mud.yahoo.com><47F67B62.80702@opus40.org> <8CA64A9591A01C8-1678-108C@FWM-M38.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <9A60994200284F28A583059E0C67F699@AnnyPC> Facebook tells me that it was Tad Richards (March 31st): Wish happy birthday to or do something to Tad! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Fri Apr 4 18:33:32 2008 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Fri, 04 Apr 2008 17:33:32 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] terror dactyls In-Reply-To: <342200.46234.qm@web35504.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <342200.46234.qm@web35504.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <47F6ACBC.7060607@nut-n-but.net> Alexander Dickow wrote: > Bob Grumman wrote: > "dactyl goes against the lyrical seriousness > I > consider one of a sonnet's essentials" > > That seems odd to me, Bob, since the dactyl's "proper > place" has historically been the "highest" genre of > all (to some), the epic. They can be used quite > forcefully even in English, and seem to me to suit > "lyric seriousness" perfectly well. But then, I'm > profoundly, almost viscerally opposed to the notion > that metrical forms "naturally" correspond to any > stylistic register -- especially that of "natural > breath" or "natural speech" (besides, if you really > want to imitate whatever you think is "natural > speech", why not use non-accentual syllabic rhythms, > which can satisfy the taste for symmetry without the > thoroughly artificial constraints of the iamb, or any > regular foot for that matter? I love syllabics). The > assertion that anything is "natural" just makes every > critical bone in my body ache.... > With all due respect.... > Amicalement, > Alex > > As I said, Alex, it's subjective. But I'm only being prescriptive about what should count as a sonnet, not about how poems should be composed. And giving an opinion about the size of common reflective thought compared with the size of a sonnet. Would it be okay to call a two-hundred-line iambic pentameter poem a "sonnet?" If not, why not? To answer quickly because I've got all kinds of things goin' on here. --Bob From cervantes.james at gmail.com Fri Apr 4 17:40:54 2008 From: cervantes.james at gmail.com (James Cervantes) Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2008 14:40:54 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Happy! In-Reply-To: <9A60994200284F28A583059E0C67F699@AnnyPC> References: <342200.46234.qm@web35504.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <47F67B62.80702@opus40.org> <8CA64A9591A01C8-1678-108C@FWM-M38.sysops.aol.com> <9A60994200284F28A583059E0C67F699@AnnyPC> Message-ID: <648208b60804041440y4fd5e271p5fbd05f29cb920b4@mail.gmail.com> Happy birthday, Tad! Hey, they missed mine on April 2nd. phht - Jim On Fri, Apr 4, 2008 at 2:12 PM, Anny Ballardini wrote: > Facebook tells me that > it was > > Tad Richards (March 31st): Wish happy birthday to or do something to Tad! > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cstroffo at earthlink.net Fri Apr 4 17:50:03 2008 From: cstroffo at earthlink.net (Chris Stroffolino) Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2008 14:50:03 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Happy! In-Reply-To: <648208b60804041440y4fd5e271p5fbd05f29cb920b4@mail.gmail.com> References: <342200.46234.qm@web35504.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <47F67B62.80702@opus40.org> <8CA64A9591A01C8-1678-108C@FWM-M38.sysops.aol.com> <9A60994200284F28A583059E0C67F699@AnnyPC> <648208b60804041440y4fd5e271p5fbd05f29cb920b4@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: hey Jim---happy birthday to you and Serge Gainsbourg and Marvin Gaye... On Apr 4, 2008, at 2:40 PM, James Cervantes wrote: > Happy birthday, Tad! Hey, they missed mine on April 2nd. phht > > - Jim > > On Fri, Apr 4, 2008 at 2:12 PM, Anny Ballardini > wrote: > Facebook tells me that > it was > > Tad Richards (March 31st): Wish happy birthday to or do something > to Tad! > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at tin.it Fri Apr 4 18:00:30 2008 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2008 00:00:30 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Happy! In-Reply-To: <648208b60804041440y4fd5e271p5fbd05f29cb920b4@mail.gmail.com> References: <342200.46234.qm@web35504.mail.mud.yahoo.com><47F67B62.80702@opus40.org><8CA64A9591A01C8-1678-108C@FWM-M38.sysops.aol.com><9A60994200284F28A583059E0C67F699@AnnyPC> <648208b60804041440y4fd5e271p5fbd05f29cb920b4@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: hEY, HAPPY BIRTHDAY JIM! we are all so proud to have you, :-) ----- Original Message ----- From: James Cervantes To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &,Views Sent: Friday, April 04, 2008 11:40 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Happy! Happy birthday, Tad! Hey, they missed mine on April 2nd. phht - Jim On Fri, Apr 4, 2008 at 2:12 PM, Anny Ballardini wrote: Facebook tells me that it was Tad Richards (March 31st): Wish happy birthday to or do something to Tad! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Opus40-01 at opus40.org Fri Apr 4 18:19:03 2008 From: Opus40-01 at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Fri, 04 Apr 2008 18:19:03 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Merrill Moore's sonnets In-Reply-To: <8CA64A9591A01C8-1678-108C@FWM-M38.sysops.aol.com> References: <342200.46234.qm@web35504.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <47F67B62.80702@opus40.org> <8CA64A9591A01C8-1678-108C@FWM-M38.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <47F6A957.1080500@opus40.org> Edward Gorey did some collaborations with Merrill Moore. shin02143 at aol.com wrote: > Has anyone here read any of Merrill Moore's 50,000-odd sonnets? About > 1500 of them have made it into print. He was a psychiatrist/MD. I > believe one of his patients was Robert Lowell. Moore wrote sonnets at > any and every possible opportunity, including scribbling while waiting > in his car at a red light. Some are quite free-form including > irregular line lengths, odd rhyme schemes, sometimes other than 14 > lines. An interesting fellow. Amazing output for someone who had a > full career as a doctor and only lived into his 50s. > > Richard > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Get the MapQuest Toolbar > , Maps, > Traffic, Directions & More! > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ The moral is this: in American verse, The better you are, the pay is worse. --Corey Ford From jfq at myuw.net Fri Apr 4 21:17:16 2008 From: jfq at myuw.net (Jason Quackenbush) Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2008 18:17:16 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] terror dactyls In-Reply-To: <342200.46234.qm@web35504.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <342200.46234.qm@web35504.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1F0522AE-842C-4B96-AE6E-D28913AEBAA9@myuw.net> agreed. at the risk of starting the stress fight yet again, i don't think iambs or regular feet even exist in English, so I find Bob's position baffling. it is, however, Bob's position and therefore i take it seriously in my puzzlement. On Apr 4, 2008, at 11:56 AM, Alexander Dickow wrote: > Bob Grumman wrote: > "dactyl goes against the lyrical seriousness > I > consider one of a sonnet's essentials" > > That seems odd to me, Bob, since the dactyl's "proper > place" has historically been the "highest" genre of > all (to some), the epic. They can be used quite > forcefully even in English, and seem to me to suit > "lyric seriousness" perfectly well. But then, I'm > profoundly, almost viscerally opposed to the notion > that metrical forms "naturally" correspond to any > stylistic register -- especially that of "natural > breath" or "natural speech" (besides, if you really > want to imitate whatever you think is "natural > speech", why not use non-accentual syllabic rhythms, > which can satisfy the taste for symmetry without the > thoroughly artificial constraints of the iamb, or any > regular foot for that matter? I love syllabics). The > assertion that anything is "natural" just makes every > critical bone in my body ache.... > With all due respect.... > Amicalement, > Alex > > --- new-poetry-request at wiz.cath.vt.edu wrote: > >> Send New-Poetry mailing list submissions to >> new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> >> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, >> visit >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> or, via email, send a message with subject or body >> 'help' to >> new-poetry-request at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> >> You can reach the person managing the list at >> new-poetry-owner at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> >> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it >> is more specific >> than "Re: Contents of New-Poetry digest..." >> >> >> Today's Topics: >> >> 1. Sonnet Contest, Prarie Home Companion >> (jforjames at aol.com) >> 2. Re: Sonnet Contest, Prarie Home Companion >> (Anny Ballardini) >> 3. Stellar Audio of Megan Volpert, Deborah Poe, & >> Laura Mullen >> (amy king) >> 4. Re: Sonnet Contest, Prarie Home Companion (Bob >> Grumman) >> 5. Re: Sonnet Contest, Prarie Home Companion >> (JforJames at aol.com) >> 6. Re: Sonnet Contest, Prarie Home Companion (Bob >> Grumman) >> 7. Re: Sonnet Contest, Prarie Home Companion >> (Jason Quackenbush) >> 8. Re: Sonnet Contest, Prarie Home Companion (Bob >> Grumman) >> 9. Re: New-Poetry Digest, Vol 46, Issue 3 (Philip >> Metres) >> 10. from Lori Emerson - bp Nichol (Anny >> Ballardini) >> >> >> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> Message: 1 >> Date: Thu, 03 Apr 2008 17:13:55 -0400 >> From: jforjames at aol.com >> Subject: [New-Poetry] Sonnet Contest, Prarie Home >> Companion >> To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> Message-ID: >> > <8CA63E6C277430F-11AC-275B at webmail-db18.sysops.aol.com> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" >> >> >> http://prairiehome.publicradio.org/ >> >> ? >> It is time for another poetry contest on A Prairie >> Home Companion and we've decided to make it a sonnet >> contest and to hold it on April 12, read the best >> entrants on our live broadcast from New York, and >> invite our audience ??? at home and at the theater >> ??? to vote a winner. >> >> >> We'll accept rhymed or unrhymed fourteen-line >> sonnets. We think they should be love poems, but >> love of what, who's to say. Absolutely must be >> original. Must be submitted by Friday, April 11, at >> midnight CST. >> >> The first prize ??? from Select Comfort ??? will be >> a Sleep Number queen-size bed along with three dozen >> roses ??? a bed of roses delivered to your door ??? >> a source of untold joy, not to mention untold sleep. >> >> ? >> > http://prairiehome.publicradio.org/features/lyrics/rules.shtml >> -------------- next part -------------- >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >> URL: >> > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080403/ > b7053b50/attachment-0001.html >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 2 >> Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2008 23:18:56 +0200 >> From: "Anny Ballardini" >> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Sonnet Contest, Prarie >> Home Companion >> To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & >> Views" >> >> Message-ID: >> <8509D8F11E9F456FBB6E4968443A63CD at AnnyPC> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" >> >> lovely, Hal you will soon have a 'bed of roses!' Go >> for it, :-) >> From: jforjames at aol.com >> Sent: Thursday, April 03, 2008 11:13 PM >> >> >> http://prairiehome.publicradio.org/ >> >> It is time for another poetry contest on A Prairie >> Home Companion and we've decided to make it a sonnet >> contest and to hold it on April 12, read the best >> entrants on our live broadcast from New York, and >> invite our audience ??? at home and at the theater >> ??? to vote a winner. >> >> We'll accept rhymed or unrhymed fourteen-line >> sonnets. We think they should be love poems, but >> love of what, who's to say. Absolutely must be >> original. Must be submitted by Friday, April 11, at >> midnight CST. >> The first prize ??? from Select Comfort ??? will >> be a Sleep Number queen-size bed along with three >> dozen roses ??? a bed of roses delivered to your >> door ??? a source of untold joy, not to mention >> untold sleep. >> >> >> > http://prairiehome.publicradio.org/features/lyrics/rules.shtml >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> >> >> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > -------- >> >> -------------- next part -------------- >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >> URL: >> > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20080403/ > f8176742/attachment-0001.html >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 3 >> Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2008 15:21:13 -0700 (PDT) >> From: amy king >> Subject: [New-Poetry] Stellar Audio of Megan >> Volpert, Deborah Poe, & >> Laura Mullen >> To: POETICS at LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU, "NewPoetry: >> Contemporary Poetry News >> & Views" >> Message-ID: >> <23605.56327.qm at web83301.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" >> >> For an excellent poetry reading from Brooklyn, perk >> up your ears here: >> >> >> >> Deborah Poe ? http://odeo.com/audio/17981583/view >> >> >> >> Megan A. Volpert ? >> http://odeo.com/audio/17981433/view >> >> >> >> Laura Mullen ? http://odeo.com/audio/17981483/view >> >> >> >> Enjoy! >> >> Amy >> >> >> >> >> _______ >> >> http://www.amyking.org >> http://redherring.us >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > ______________________________________________________________________ > ______________ >> You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one >> month of Blockbuster Total Access, No Cost. >> http://tc.deals.yahoo.com/tc/blockbuster/text5.com >> -------------- next part -------------- >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >> URL: >> > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/ > 20080403/8eabb452/attachment-0001.html >> >> ------------------------------ >> > === message truncated === > > > www.alexdickow.net/blog/ > > les mots! ah quel d?sert ? la fin > merveilleux. -- Henri Droguet > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From jfq at myuw.net Fri Apr 4 21:28:12 2008 From: jfq at myuw.net (Jason Quackenbush) Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2008 18:28:12 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] terror dactyls In-Reply-To: <47F6ACBC.7060607@nut-n-but.net> References: <342200.46234.qm@web35504.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <47F6ACBC.7060607@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <0F031EA4-33D2-492D-9AAF-D13D5BCDCD60@myuw.net> My Favorite sonnets are ted berrigans "the sonnets" plus "Nothing in that drawer," and these don't fit yer definition Bob. I do think they're recognizable as sonnets however, despite being free verse in Berrigan and repetitiveness of Nothing in that Drawer. but then, sonnet is a universal, and I think the correct understanding of the problem of universals is not to take it as given that everything can be reduced to an essential set of elements. what is and is not a sonnet is ultimately going to be determined by what is and is not called a sonnet. the same goes for haiku. Gurga and Trumbull and the rest of the english language/american haiku crowd can talk til they're blue in the face about kigo and cutting words and juxtaposition of images and what not, but it's not going to change the fact that the cat is out of the bag and like it or not, these days: dislike this haiku formula but I write this as illustration is a haiku. and i think a decent argument that: this here is a real sonnet whether it's good remains very much an open question is a sonnet can also be made. On Apr 4, 2008, at 3:33 PM, Bob Grumman wrote: > > > Alexander Dickow wrote: >> Bob Grumman wrote: >> "dactyl goes against the lyrical seriousness >> I consider one of a sonnet's essentials" >> >> That seems odd to me, Bob, since the dactyl's "proper >> place" has historically been the "highest" genre of >> all (to some), the epic. They can be used quite >> forcefully even in English, and seem to me to suit >> "lyric seriousness" perfectly well. But then, I'm >> profoundly, almost viscerally opposed to the notion >> that metrical forms "naturally" correspond to any >> stylistic register -- especially that of "natural >> breath" or "natural speech" (besides, if you really >> want to imitate whatever you think is "natural >> speech", why not use non-accentual syllabic rhythms, >> which can satisfy the taste for symmetry without the >> thoroughly artificial constraints of the iamb, or any >> regular foot for that matter? I love syllabics). The >> assertion that anything is "natural" just makes every >> critical bone in my body ache.... >> With all due respect.... >> Amicalement, >> Alex >> > > As I said, Alex, it's subjective. But I'm only being prescriptive > about what should count as a sonnet, not about how poems should be > composed. And giving an opinion about the size of common > reflective thought compared with the size of a sonnet. Would it be > okay to call a two-hundred-line iambic pentameter poem a "sonnet?" > If not, why not? > > To answer quickly because I've got all kinds of things goin' on here. > > --Bob > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From jforjames at aol.com Fri Apr 4 21:51:45 2008 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Fri, 04 Apr 2008 21:51:45 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Finkel Honored Message-ID: <8CA64D6BD2D0FE3-F38-1D90@WEBMAIL-DG14.sim.aol.com> http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/entertainment/stories.nsf/books/story/10274EBDCA9E3177862574210078FE34?OpenDocument Dozens of poets gather to honor Donald Finkel By Howard Schwartz SPECIAL TO THE POST-DISPATCH 04/06/2008 Donald Finkel wove personal anecdotes into class that were often hilarious. We've all had a memorable teacher or two who inspired us. For an astonishing number of St. Louisans ? especially the poets ? that teacher was Donald Finkel. Some of us, along with other longtime admirers, will gather Monday for one of the biggest poetry readings ever in St. Louis. As a tribute to the man who taught at Washington University for more than 30 years, more than three dozen poets will read from his work. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Fri Apr 4 23:12:20 2008 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Fri, 04 Apr 2008 22:12:20 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] terror dactyls In-Reply-To: <0F031EA4-33D2-492D-9AAF-D13D5BCDCD60@myuw.net> References: <342200.46234.qm@web35504.mail.mud.yahoo.com><47F6ACBC.7060607@nut-n-but.net> <0F031EA4-33D2-492D-9AAF-D13D5BCDCD60@myuw.net> Message-ID: <47F6EE14.20905@nut-n-but.net> Well, it's all a matter of what you think essential to haiku and sonnets after hundreds of years of them. A problem with your outlook seems to me what isn't a sonnet? For my book on haiku and related poems, I spelled out pretty exactly what I think makes a haiku, and it's a set of elements (how else can one define anything?), but not all needed, just most of them, if properly weighted. Season word is good but not essential. Juxtaposition of images essential. Etc. I haven't done the same with the sonnet but feel if you allow any 14-liners, you lose the essence of the sonnet OR you simply confuse the issue with the complication of having to define kinds of sonnets, and we already have enough kinds of sonnets. As for no regular iambs, well, a lotta people got fooled. But I think you define iambs differently from me. For me, they're just dah DAH dah DAH. I don't care if the second DAH is weaker than the first dah. And, of course, one can't stick to a strict rhythm forever, but one should do so long enough to establish it. And call it out of meter when it is, not say it's some strict meter everywhere, no matter what it does. Soon I'll settle all this PERMANENTLY at my blog. Maybe. At any rate, it's a fun topic. (And I like lots of poems their authors call sonnets and I don't.) --Bob From jjeffreymail at yahoo.com Fri Apr 4 23:15:58 2008 From: jjeffreymail at yahoo.com (John Jeffrey) Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2008 20:15:58 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] terror dactyls In-Reply-To: <47F6EE14.20905@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <747244.29981.qm@web54108.mail.re2.yahoo.com> These are the discussions that make me scratch my head. Why the argument against the idea that a sonnet has a certain form--which, yes, is flexible to a point, but a poem that wants to live in the sonnet neighborhood has to conform to the rules in some major way. (I bet that word "rules" really set some teeth on edge, eh?) Otherwise it's simple: it's not a sonnet. A chicken liver dropped on the cat's back is not a sonnet. Neither is a toaster. And neither is fourteen single word lines. You can call it a sonnet, but it ain't. Nor is this post a sonnet. Nor is it a haiku. It's not a earlobe either. Even if I insist. Now where is that cat? John --------------------------------- You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster Total Access, No Cost. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Opus40-01 at opus40.org Sat Apr 5 00:03:43 2008 From: Opus40-01 at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Sat, 05 Apr 2008 00:03:43 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Finkel Honored In-Reply-To: <8CA64D6BD2D0FE3-F38-1D90@WEBMAIL-DG14.sim.aol.com> References: <8CA64D6BD2D0FE3-F38-1D90@WEBMAIL-DG14.sim.aol.com> Message-ID: <47F6FA1F.7000306@opus40.org> I'm on my way down there tomorrow;. jforjames at aol.com wrote: > http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/entertainment/stories.nsf/books/story/10274EBDCA9E3177862574210078FE34?OpenDocument > > Dozens of poets gather to honor Donald Finkel > By Howard Schwartz > SPECIAL TO THE POST-DISPATCH > 04/06/2008 > > Donald Finkel wove personal anecdotes into class that were often > hilarious. > We've all had a memorable teacher or two who inspired us. For an > astonishing number of St. Louisans ? especially the poets ? that > teacher was Donald Finkel. > > Some of us, along with other longtime admirers, will gather Monday for > one of the biggest poetry readings ever in St. Louis. As a tribute to > the man who taught at Washington University for more than 30 years, > more than three dozen poets will read from his work. > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Get the MapQuest Toolbar > , Maps, > Traffic, Directions & More! > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ The moral is this: in American verse, The better you are, the pay is worse. --Corey Ford From shin02143 at aol.com Sat Apr 5 10:16:57 2008 From: shin02143 at aol.com (shin02143 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 05 Apr 2008 10:16:57 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] terror dactyls In-Reply-To: <747244.29981.qm@web54108.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <8CA653ED7675AA2-11D4-71@FWM-M11.sysops.aol.com> I agree with John. I've written over 40 sonnets, all of them 14 lines iambic pentameter, 8 plus 6, with some rhyme scheme or other and a volta in line 9 (sorta). Some of the recent poems I've seen pass for sonnets aren't...not really.? Richard -----Original Message----- From: John Jeffrey Sent: Fri, 4 Apr 2008 11:15 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] terror dactyls These are the discussions that make me scratch my head.? Why the argument against the idea that a sonnet has a certain form--which, yes, is flexible to a point, but a poem that wants to live in the sonnet neighborhood has to conform to the rules in some major way.? (I bet that word "rules" really set some teeth on edge, eh?)? Otherwise it's simple: it's not a sonnet.? A chicken liver dropped on the cat's back is not a sonnet.? Neither is a toaster.? And neither is fourteen single word lines.? You can call it a sonnet, but it ain't.? Nor is this post a sonnet.? Nor is it a haiku.? It's not a earlobe either.? Even if I insist. Now where is that cat? John You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster Total Access, No Cost. _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From shin02143 at aol.com Sat Apr 5 10:19:35 2008 From: shin02143 at aol.com (shin02143 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 05 Apr 2008 10:19:35 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] terror dactyls In-Reply-To: <0F031EA4-33D2-492D-9AAF-D13D5BCDCD60@myuw.net> References: <342200.46234.qm@web35504.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <47F6ACBC.7060607@nut-n-but.net> <0F031EA4-33D2-492D-9AAF-D13D5BCDCD60@myuw.net> Message-ID: <8CA653F34F2936E-11D4-81@FWM-M11.sysops.aol.com> They're sonnets mainly because Berrigan called them sonnets. If he hadn't, they might not have been acknowledged as sonnets. Richard My Favorite sonnets are ted berrigans "the sonnets" plus "Nothing in that drawer," and these don't fit yer definition Bob. -----Original Message----- From: Jason Quackenbush Sent: Fri, 4 Apr 2008 9:28 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] terror dactyls My Favorite sonnets are ted berrigans "the sonnets" plus "Nothing in that drawer," and these don't fit yer definition Bob.? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd at ripon.edu Sat Apr 5 11:26:05 2008 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2008 10:26:05 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] terror dactyls In-Reply-To: <747244.29981.qm@web54108.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <747244.29981.qm@web54108.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <65D88B77-E816-4A6E-860F-8F5B4DE97849@ripon.edu> These discussions sometimes make me scratch my head, but more often they just make my eyes glaze over. I agree with John Jeffrey, as it happens, but so what? I'm very interested in whether or not a given poem is a good one. But whether it is or is not a sonnet? Yawn . . . . I'm content when someone says that a sonnet must have 14 lines and a rhyme scheme; and I'm equally happy when Gerald Stern insists that a sonnet is simply a "little song" and need have no particular shape. I probably wouldn't follow his example myself, but again: who cares? And why? Show me the poems, not the dictionary, I say. Why, here's one now: September, 1999 I was thinking about pears?or you were?I don't remember who first started to think, though you said Seckle pears and I said Bartlett and nothing I could do could budge you; I could cut the skin so quickly and keep it so thin the light goes through it, and I held it to the light to catch the rose, and I knew when the core was already brown and it was spreading just by touching the flesh, and sometimes the neck was gone, as far as eating, though you would call it the nose, you with your Seckles, you with your freckles, and no one but me has quite such pleasure extruding the stem, and no one I know puts a pear in his coat pocket when he goes out in the rain, as I do, though what was the pleasure eating in sheets of water compared to the loneliness eating by yourself, and even though hornets were in your bowl and ten or twenty were crawling over a rotten peach and three or four were already after my pear since it was autumn again and hornets were dying and they were angry, and drunk, I just wiped them away. -- Gerald Stern. American Sonnets. Norton, 2002. ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.mac.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== On Apr 4, 2008, at 10:15 PM, John Jeffrey wrote: > These are the discussions that make me scratch my head. Why the > argument against the idea that a sonnet has a certain form--which, > yes, is flexible to a point, but a poem that wants to live in the > sonnet neighborhood has to conform to the rules in some major way. > (I bet that word "rules" really set some teeth on edge, eh?) > Otherwise it's simple: it's not a sonnet. A chicken liver dropped > on the cat's back is not a sonnet. Neither is a toaster. And > neither is fourteen single word lines. You can call it a sonnet, > but it ain't. Nor is this post a sonnet. Nor is it a haiku. It's > not a earlobe either. Even if I insist. > > Now where is that cat? > > John -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at earthlink.net Sat Apr 5 11:38:33 2008 From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson) Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2008 11:38:33 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] terror dactyls In-Reply-To: <65D88B77-E816-4A6E-860F-8F5B4DE97849@ripon.edu> References: <747244.29981.qm@web54108.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <65D88B77-E816-4A6E-860F-8F5B4DE97849@ripon.edu> Message-ID: <8F225C88-453A-4D69-9AB9-E5BA10D32528@earthlink.net> Yawn, indeed. 4 Subprime-Mortgage Sonnets i. talent for vanishing dance suites repossessed pulque bars, luxury-class rigors of cold climate who's that on tenor? ii. backroom brawls back in the news raunchy endeavors under review local calls at long- distance rates empty before filling iii. away all boats ask me about red houses all in a row tonight's rock concerto cancelled iv. glossy enlargements no extra cost some ice cubes on a blanket your house or mine? Hungry, a country? Hal "Information cannot argue with a closed mind." --Mike Nichols and Elaine May Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html On Apr 5, 2008, at 11:26 AM, David Graham wrote: > These discussions sometimes make me scratch my head, but more often > they just make my eyes glaze over. I agree with John Jeffrey, as it > happens, but so what? I'm very interested in whether or not a given > poem is a good one. But whether it is or is not a sonnet? > Yawn . . . . > > I'm content when someone says that a sonnet must have 14 lines and a > rhyme scheme; and I'm equally happy when Gerald Stern insists that a > sonnet is simply a "little song" and need have no particular shape. > I probably wouldn't follow his example myself, but again: who > cares? And why? > > Show me the poems, not the dictionary, I say. > > Why, here's one now: > > September, 1999 > > I was thinking about pears?or you were?I > don't remember who first started to think, > though you said Seckle pears and I said Bartlett > and nothing I could do could budge you; I > could cut the skin so quickly and keep it so thin > the light goes through it, and I held it to the light > to catch the rose, and I knew when the core was > already brown and it was spreading just by > touching the flesh, and sometimes the neck was gone, > as far as eating, though you would call it the nose, > you with your Seckles, you with your freckles, and no one > but me has quite such pleasure extruding the stem, > and no one I know puts a pear in his coat pocket > when he goes out in the rain, as I do, though what > was the pleasure eating in sheets of water compared to > the loneliness eating by yourself, and even though > hornets were in your bowl and ten or twenty > were crawling over a rotten peach and three or > four were already after my pear since it was > autumn again and hornets were dying and they were > angry, and drunk, I just wiped them away. > > -- Gerald Stern. American Sonnets. Norton, 2002. > > ======================================== > David Graham > grahamd at ripon.edu > > Home Page: > http://web.mac.com/drjazz > > Poetry Library: > http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html > ========================================== > > > > > On Apr 4, 2008, at 10:15 PM, John Jeffrey wrote: >> These are the discussions that make me scratch my head. Why the >> argument against the idea that a sonnet has a certain form--which, >> yes, is flexible to a point, but a poem that wants to live in the >> sonnet neighborhood has to conform to the rules in some major way. >> (I bet that word "rules" really set some teeth on edge, eh?) >> Otherwise it's simple: it's not a sonnet. A chicken liver dropped >> on the cat's back is not a sonnet. Neither is a toaster. And >> neither is fourteen single word lines. You can call it a sonnet, >> but it ain't. Nor is this post a sonnet. Nor is it a haiku. It's >> not a earlobe either. Even if I insist. >> >> Now where is that cat? >> >> John > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sat Apr 5 14:18:12 2008 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Sat, 05 Apr 2008 13:18:12 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] terror dactyls In-Reply-To: <8CA653F34F2936E-11D4-81@FWM-M11.sysops.aol.com> References: <342200.46234.qm@web35504.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <47F6ACBC.7060607@nut-n-but.net><0F031EA4-33D2-492D-9AAF-D13D5BCDCD60@myuw.net> <8CA653F34F2936E-11D4-81@FWM-M11.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <47F7C264.2020007@nut-n-but.net> shin02143 at aol.com wrote: > They're sonnets mainly because Berrigan called them sonnets. If he > hadn't, they might not have been acknowledged as sonnets. > > Richard > Except that all kinds of other poets have abused the term. It's the American way. I just got an ad telling me I'd get some damned thing for free--by contributing $20 to some charity. I call it nullinguistics. --Bob G. From jjeffreymail at yahoo.com Sat Apr 5 17:52:12 2008 From: jjeffreymail at yahoo.com (John Jeffrey) Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2008 14:52:12 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] terror dactyls In-Reply-To: <65D88B77-E816-4A6E-860F-8F5B4DE97849@ripon.edu> Message-ID: <933215.92561.qm@web54111.mail.re2.yahoo.com> You're right, of course, in yawning. It is all about the poem's worth. I guess I'm just sick of all the stretching of terms to the point where they're useless. And it's not just sonnets, it's poetry itself. It's capital A Art itself. I think instead I'll go read a Shakespeare's villanelle, or maybe I'm in the mood for Basho's heroic couplets. John David Graham wrote: These discussions sometimes make me scratch my head, but more often they just make my eyes glaze over. I agree with John Jeffrey, as it happens, but so what? I'm very interested in whether or not a given poem is a good one. But whether it is or is not a sonnet? Yawn . . . . I'm content when someone says that a sonnet must have 14 lines and a rhyme scheme; and I'm equally happy when Gerald Stern insists that a sonnet is simply a "little song" and need have no particular shape. I probably wouldn't follow his example myself, but again: who cares? And why? Show me the poems, not the dictionary, I say. Why, here's one now: September, 1999 I was thinking about pears???or you were???I don't remember who first started to think, though you said Seckle pears and I said Bartlett and nothing I could do could budge you; I could cut the skin so quickly and keep it so thin the light goes through it, and I held it to the light to catch the rose, and I knew when the core was already brown and it was spreading just by touching the flesh, and sometimes the neck was gone, as far as eating, though you would call it the nose, you with your Seckles, you with your freckles, and no one but me has quite such pleasure extruding the stem, and no one I know puts a pear in his coat pocket when he goes out in the rain, as I do, though what was the pleasure eating in sheets of water compared to the loneliness eating by yourself, and even though hornets were in your bowl and ten or twenty were crawling over a rotten peach and three or four were already after my pear since it was autumn again and hornets were dying and they were angry, and drunk, I just wiped them away. -- Gerald Stern. American Sonnets. Norton, 2002. ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.mac.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== On Apr 4, 2008, at 10:15 PM, John Jeffrey wrote: These are the discussions that make me scratch my head. Why the argument against the idea that a sonnet has a certain form--which, yes, is flexible to a point, but a poem that wants to live in the sonnet neighborhood has to conform to the rules in some major way. (I bet that word "rules" really set some teeth on edge, eh?) Otherwise it's simple: it's not a sonnet. A chicken liver dropped on the cat's back is not a sonnet. Neither is a toaster. And neither is fourteen single word lines. You can call it a sonnet, but it ain't. Nor is this post a sonnet. Nor is it a haiku. It's not a earlobe either. Even if I insist. Now where is that cat? John _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry --------------------------------- You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster Total Access, No Cost. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sat Apr 5 21:32:41 2008 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Sat, 05 Apr 2008 20:32:41 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] terror dactyls In-Reply-To: <933215.92561.qm@web54111.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <933215.92561.qm@web54111.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <47F82839.5080709@nut-n-but.net> John Jeffrey wrote: > You're right, of course, in yawning. It is all about the poem's > worth. I guess I'm just sick of all the stretching of terms to the > point where they're useless. And it's not just sonnets, it's poetry > itself. It's capital A Art itself. I think instead I'll go read a > Shakespeare's villanelle, or maybe I'm in the mood for Basho's heroic > couplets. Ah, yes, Basho's heroic couplets--especially his one-line heroic couplets. No one did them better. --Bob From cervantes.james at gmail.com Sun Apr 6 10:55:26 2008 From: cervantes.james at gmail.com (James Cervantes) Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2008 07:55:26 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] terror dactyls In-Reply-To: <933215.92561.qm@web54111.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <65D88B77-E816-4A6E-860F-8F5B4DE97849@ripon.edu> <933215.92561.qm@web54111.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <648208b60804060755m180acc49qab8e13d0f96438af@mail.gmail.com> On Sat, Apr 5, 2008 at 2:52 PM, John Jeffrey wrote: > You're right, of course, in yawning. It is all about the poem's worth. I > guess I'm just sick of all the stretching of terms to the point where > they're useless. *Truncated Sonnet* The present is gone in an instant. Anal seepage is worse than a whistle in the lungs. Sudden wind through an open house may slam shut an interior door. At the end of a story, the appearance of stars does not explain cut hay. Here's some thread, you are the needle. Go ahead. The latest advisory, breaking news. -- Jim ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~ Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org ~ http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning ~ http://www.fieralingue.it/documenti/mr_bondo.pdf ~ http://www.poetserv.org/jvc/home/index.html ~ http://www.flickr.com/photos/12364573 at N08/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jjeffreymail at yahoo.com Sun Apr 6 11:30:48 2008 From: jjeffreymail at yahoo.com (John Jeffrey) Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2008 08:30:48 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] terror dactyls In-Reply-To: <648208b60804060755m180acc49qab8e13d0f96438af@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <891233.55439.qm@web54106.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Yikes. You should get that checked out. James Cervantes wrote: On Sat, Apr 5, 2008 at 2:52 PM, John Jeffrey wrote: You're right, of course, in yawning. It is all about the poem's worth. I guess I'm just sick of all the stretching of terms to the point where they're useless. Truncated Sonnet The present is gone in an instant. Anal seepage is worse than a whistle in the lungs. Sudden wind through an open house may slam shut an interior door. At the end of a story, the appearance of stars does not explain cut hay. Here's some thread, you are the needle. Go ahead. The latest advisory, breaking news. -- Jim ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~ Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org ~ http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning ~ http://www.fieralingue.it/documenti/mr_bondo.pdf ~ http://www.poetserv.org/jvc/home/index.html ~ http://www.flickr.com/photos/12364573 at N08/ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry --------------------------------- You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster Total Access, No Cost. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames at aol.com Sun Apr 6 11:32:02 2008 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2008 11:32:02 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] terror dactyls Message-ID: A form as universally successful as the sonnet is bound to attract artists who want to tinker with its formal constraints or those who just want play with the form. A true formalist like Mona Van Duyn did a series of 'sonnets' with one word per line while employing a rhyme scheme. Also, there's to consider the break from the Italian form toward the English sonnet form. What did practitioners of the former at the time say/think about the liberties taken by the latter? It seems easy enough these days to stick a modifier on the term if one needs to make clear distinction: 'traditional sonnet' or 'formal sonnet' would do the trick. Or one could put quotes around the non-traditonal sonnet, "In Ted Berrigan's 'sonnets' we see..." My philosophical side reminds me that poetic forms are not like Plato's 'forms'. There isn't a universal sonnet form/ideal that manifests itself in the language object we call a sonnet. All forms arose in some arbitrary fashion from a set of rules first laid down an often unknown ur-maker. So in that sense all forms are arbitrary and capricious. A certain14 line metered and rimed creation becomes habituated in the general practice of poets, while the twelve-liner or the eighteen-liner never caught on. Many claims have been for special qualities inherent in 14 lines (or the 8 + 6 mode), but most are specious. Finnegan In a message dated 4/5/2008 5:52:47 PM Eastern Daylight Time, jjeffreymail at yahoo.com writes: You're right, of course, in yawning. It is all about the poem's worth. I guess I'm just sick of all the stretching of terms to the point where they're useless. And it's not just sonnets, it's poetry itself. It's capital A Art itself. I think instead I'll go read a Shakespeare's villanelle, or maybe I'm in the mood for Basho's heroic couplets. John David Graham wrote: These discussions sometimes make me scratch my head, but more often they just make my eyes glaze over. I agree with John Jeffrey, as it happens, but so what? I'm very interested in whether or not a given poem is a good one. But whether it is or is not a sonnet? Yawn . . . . I'm content when someone says that a sonnet must have 14 lines and a rhyme scheme; and I'm equally happy when Gerald Stern insists that a sonnet is simply a "little song" and need have no particular shape. I probably wouldn't follow his example myself, but again: who cares? And why? **************Planning your summer road trip? Check out AOL Travel Guides. (http://travel.aol.com/travel-guide/united-states?ncid=aoltrv00030000000016) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at earthlink.net Sun Apr 6 11:49:25 2008 From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson) Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2008 11:49:25 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] terror dactyls In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <9D0D402D-B403-4006-8A6B-405D2A45652C@earthlink.net> If one can't tell a "traditional" sonnet from a "non-traditional" one without their being labeled as such, one should seek help. Btw, I've done one with only one letter per line. If I not mistaken it's in The Sonnet Project (linked below). Also, btw, my guess is that the so-called rules came after the poems, not before. But actually those "rules" are merely descriptive of how some poems/ sonnets/etc. are written. Rules are for civil order (along with baseball, etc.) not poetry (or art in general). Hal Today's Special The Sonnet Project http://www.xpressed.org/hsonnet.pdf Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html On Apr 6, 2008, at 11:32 AM, JforJames at aol.com wrote: > A form as universally successful as the sonnet is bound to attract > artists who want to tinker > with its formal constraints or those who just want play with the > form. A true formalist like Mona > Van Duyn did a series of 'sonnets' with one word per line while > employing a rhyme scheme. Also, > there's to consider the break from the Italian form toward the > English sonnet form. What did > practitioners of the former at the time say/think about the > liberties taken by the latter? > > It seems easy enough these days to stick a modifier on the term if > one needs to make clear > distinction: 'traditional sonnet' or 'formal sonnet' would do the > trick. Or one could put quotes around > the non-traditonal sonnet, "In Ted Berrigan's 'sonnets' we see..." > > My philosophical side reminds me that poetic forms are not like > Plato's 'forms'. There isn't a universal > sonnet form/ideal that manifests itself in the language object we > call a sonnet. All forms arose > in some arbitrary fashion from a set of rules first laid down an > often unknown ur-maker. So in that sense > all forms are arbitrary and capricious. A certain14 line metered and > rimed creation becomes habituated > in the general practice of poets, while the twelve-liner or the > eighteen-liner never caught on. Many claims have been for special > qualities inherent in 14 lines (or the 8 + 6 mode), but most are > specious. > Finnegan > > In a message dated 4/5/2008 5:52:47 PM Eastern Daylight Time, jjeffreymail at yahoo.com > writes: > You're right, of course, in yawning. It is all about the poem's > worth. I guess I'm just sick of all the stretching of terms to the > point where they're useless. And it's not just sonnets, it's poetry > itself. It's capital A Art itself. I think instead I'll go read a > Shakespeare's villanelle, or maybe I'm in the mood for Basho's > heroic couplets. > > John > > > David Graham wrote: > These discussions sometimes make me scratch my head, but more often > they just make my eyes glaze over. I agree with John Jeffrey, as it > happens, but so what? I'm very interested in whether or not a given > poem is a good one. But whether it is or is not a sonnet? > Yawn . . . . > > I'm content when someone says that a sonnet must have 14 lines and a > rhyme scheme; and I'm equally happy when Gerald Stern insists that a > sonnet is simply a "little song" and need have no particular shape. > I probably wouldn't follow his example myself, but again: who > cares? And why? > > > > > Planning your summer road trip? Check out AOL Travel Guides. > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames at aol.com Sun Apr 6 12:13:05 2008 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2008 12:13:05 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] terror dactyls Message-ID: In a message dated 4/6/2008 11:49:46 AM Eastern Daylight Time, halvard at earthlink.net writes: Also, btw, my guess is that the so-called rules came after the poems, not before. But actually those "rules" are merely descriptive of how some poems/sonnets/etc. are written. Perhaps in part true, Hal. But I speculate the first poem that was to be a sonnet had at least the bare bones behind of plan behind its making, self-imposed guidelines established by its first maker. Likely it was an influential maker/artist who first laid out a few 'sonnets' and then others followed suit, copying the form/template so to speak. We know from his own testimony that Billy Collins invented his paradelle by laying down some arbitrary rules for its construction. It wasn't arrived at over time by critical consensus. Though many other forms were not initiated as a joke as the paradelle was, I'd bet the were arrived at in similar fashion. Maybe the historical record is in tatters and largely oral, but certainly 'the sonnet's history' has been studied in depth. Is there a 'first sonnet' and who were its first immitators? Where are the irregulars of this list's formalist brain trust? Answers please. What are the forms that have died out? The extinct species.Surely a few didn't make it over the long haul? Finnegan **************Planning your summer road trip? Check out AOL Travel Guides. (http://travel.aol.com/travel-guide/united-states?ncid=aoltrv00030000000016) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Edward.Byrne at valpo.edu Sun Apr 6 12:17:02 2008 From: Edward.Byrne at valpo.edu (Edward Byrne) Date: Sun, 06 Apr 2008 11:17:02 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Postage Increase Reminder and Revised Guidelines Message-ID: <47F8B12D.7112.006E.0@valpo.edu> "The U.S. Postal Service recently announced that its rates are set for an increase effective May 12. The new rates will include a one-cent rise in the price for mailing first-class letters, which will cost 42 cents.... Therefore, this seems like a good moment to remind those submitting work by postal mail to any journals that the enclosed self-addressed stamped envelope now should reflect the new rate, since responses from most magazines probably will happen after the May 12 deadline...": http://edwardbyrne.blogspot.com/2008/04/postage-increase-reminder-and-revised.html -------------------------------------------------- Edward Byrne Department of English 322 Huegli Hall Valparaiso University Valparaiso, IN 46383-6493 E-mail: edward.byrne at valpo.edu Home Page: http://www.valpo.edu/home/faculty/ebyrne/homepage/ Blog: http://edwardbyrne.blogspot.com/ Editor, Valparaiso Poetry Review E-mail: vpr at valpo.edu VPR Web Page: http://www.valpo.edu/english/vpr/ Office Phone: (219) 464-5278 Fax: (219) 464-5511 -------------------------------------------------- From JforJames at aol.com Sun Apr 6 12:20:58 2008 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2008 12:20:58 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: Poets House Celebrates National Poetry Month Message-ID: **************Planning your summer road trip? Check out AOL Travel Guides. (http://travel.aol.com/travel-guide/united-states?ncid=aoltrv00030000000016) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: "Poets House" Subject: Poets House Celebrates National Poetry Month Date: Sat, 05 Apr 2008 14:13:16 +1100 Size: 11659 URL: From cervantes.james at gmail.com Sun Apr 6 12:30:52 2008 From: cervantes.james at gmail.com (James Cervantes) Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2008 09:30:52 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] terror dactyls In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <648208b60804060930y7fe2e5dch74e62101450ea044@mail.gmail.com> One of my favorite, other-species sonnets: Sonnet Nabokov Pathetic, how the stiff wings' final reflex Mimics A death struggle; how the brittle thorax Clicks As the pin penetrates; how the pin exits Cracks Riddle the chitin; how the aftershocks Climax In a foreleg's or an antenna's palsied metrics; Facts Carousel on a dark scrim of wax; No music; No music but a pulse make-believe makes Relax. - Daniel Bosch, Poetry, November 2005 On Sun, Apr 6, 2008 at 8:32 AM, wrote: > A form as universally successful as the sonnet is bound to attract > artists who want to tinker > with its formal constraints or those who just want play with the form. A > true formalist like Mona > Van Duyn did a series of 'sonnets' with one word per line while > employing a rhyme scheme. Also, > there's to consider the break from the Italian form toward the English > sonnet form. What did > practitioners of the former at the time say/think about the liberties > taken by the latter? > > It seems easy enough these days to stick a modifier on the term if one > needs to make clear > distinction: 'traditional sonnet' or 'formal sonnet' would do the trick. > Or one could put quotes around > the non-traditonal sonnet, "In Ted Berrigan's 'sonnets' we see..." > > My philosophical side reminds me that poetic forms are not like Plato's > 'forms'. There isn't a universal > sonnet form/ideal that manifests itself in the language object we call a > sonnet. All forms arose > in some arbitrary fashion from a set of rules first laid down an often > unknown ur-maker. So in that sense > all forms are arbitrary and capricious. A certain14 line metered and rimed > creation becomes habituated > in the general practice of poets, while the twelve-liner or the > eighteen-liner never caught on. Many claims have been for special qualities > inherent in 14 lines (or the 8 + 6 mode), but most are specious. > Finnegan > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cervantes.james at gmail.com Sun Apr 6 12:34:48 2008 From: cervantes.james at gmail.com (James Cervantes) Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2008 09:34:48 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] terror dactyls In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <648208b60804060934n1e2781c6p5eae8c146885c3a7@mail.gmail.com> On Sun, Apr 6, 2008 at 9:13 AM, wrote: > > > > Maybe the historical record is in tatters and largely oral, but certainly > 'the sonnet's history' has been studied in depth. Is there a 'first sonnet' > and who were its first immitators? Where are the irregulars of this > list's formalist brain trust? Answers please. > > What are the forms that have died out? The extinct species.Surely a few > didn't make it over the long haul? > > Finnegan > There are genetic traces of dead forms in almost all of contemporary poetry. That's one flip answer to an interesting question, though it obviously applies to poets as well as their work. -- Jim ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~ Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org ~ http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning ~ http://www.fieralingue.it/documenti/mr_bondo.pdf ~ http://www.poetserv.org/jvc/home/index.html ~ http://www.flickr.com/photos/12364573 at N08/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at earthlink.net Sun Apr 6 13:13:08 2008 From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson) Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2008 13:13:08 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] terror dactyls In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <55822312-6052-4DD1-B3D7-2378E14647AC@earthlink.net> Since all poems have some sort of form, my guess is that the number of forms that die every day are up in the gazillions. I also guess that that first poem to be a sonnet was greeted by cries of "THAT's not a sonnet!" Hal, who also thinks that poets are free to make up their own rules, which others may voluntarily take unto themselves and even pass on to (but not lay upon) others, and gives thanks to Whomever that we no longer believe that a good harvest depends on getting the meter right "Artists are the engineers of the soul." --Iosif Dzhugashvili Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html On Apr 6, 2008, at 12:13 PM, JforJames at aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 4/6/2008 11:49:46 AM Eastern Daylight Time, halvard at earthlink.net > writes: > Also, btw, my guess is that the so-called rules came after the > poems, not before. > But actually those "rules" are merely descriptive of how some poems/ > sonnets/etc. > are written. > Perhaps in part true, Hal. But I speculate the first poem that was > to be a sonnet had at least the bare > bones behind of plan behind its making, self-imposed guidelines > established by its first maker. Likely it was an influential maker/ > artist who first laid out a few 'sonnets' and then others followed > suit, copying the form/template so to speak. > > We know from his own testimony that Billy Collins invented his > paradelle by laying down some arbitrary rules for its construction. > It wasn't arrived at over time by critical consensus. Though many > other forms > were not initiated as a joke as the paradelle was, I'd bet the were > arrived at in similar fashion. > Maybe the historical record is in tatters and largely oral, but > certainly 'the sonnet's history' has been studied in depth. Is there > a 'first sonnet' and who were its first immitators? Where are the > irregulars of this list's formalist brain trust? Answers please. > > What are the forms that have died out? The extinct species.Surely a > few didn't make it over the long haul? > > Finnegan > > > > Planning your summer road trip? Check out AOL Travel Guides. > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at earthlink.net Sun Apr 6 13:18:26 2008 From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson) Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2008 13:18:26 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: [crewrt-l] Postage Increase Reminder and Revised Guidelines In-Reply-To: <47F8B0FD.7112.006E.0@valpo.edu> References: <47F8B0FD.7112.006E.0@valpo.edu> Message-ID: <4E517AA0-9BDF-43F1-ABBD-55E802ABC591@earthlink.net> Makes more "cents" than ever now to send those poems of yours to Hamilton Stone Review. You'll even save the cost of two envelopes. Or send 'em to Jim over at Salt River Review. Hal "Can't stop the dancing chicken." Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html On Apr 6, 2008, at 12:16 PM, Edward Byrne wrote: > > "The U.S. Postal Service recently announced that its rates are set > for an increase effective May 12. The new rates will include a one- > cent rise in the price for mailing first-class letters, which will > cost 42 cents.... Therefore, this seems like a good moment to remind > those submitting work by postal mail to any journals that the > enclosed self-addressed stamped envelope now should reflect the new > rate, since responses from most magazines probably will happen after > the May 12 deadline...": > > http://edwardbyrne.blogspot.com/2008/04/postage-increase-reminder-and-revised.html > > > > > -------------------------------------------------- > > Edward Byrne > Department of English > 322 Huegli Hall > Valparaiso University > Valparaiso, IN 46383-6493 > > E-mail: edward.byrne at valpo.edu > Home Page: > http://www.valpo.edu/home/faculty/ebyrne/homepage/ > Blog: > http://edwardbyrne.blogspot.com/ > > Editor, Valparaiso Poetry Review > E-mail: vpr at valpo.edu > VPR Web Page: http://www.valpo.edu/english/vpr/ > Office Phone: (219) 464-5278 > Fax: (219) 464-5511 > > -------------------------------------------------- > > ---------------------------------------------------------- > Direct questions about the list to listmom at interversity.net > Archive user: crewrt / password: hokeypokey From anny.ballardini at tin.it Sun Apr 6 13:31:32 2008 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2008 19:31:32 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] terror dactyls In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >From the little I know I have always noticed the tendency by the Italians to see the British as a barbarous race, still nowadays; while on Americans they literally "lay a piteous veil" words said yesterday by a chemistry professor at a public teachers' meeting. Logically it embraces much more than poetry, say social trends and such. Whatever. If on the other hand you have a haggard English or American living here, they would undoubtedly deny what I said, as it already happened over and over again on lists. That is not my problem. This is what I have recorded at school and around the several places. They even showed that Shakespeare was Italian! And let me add another nasty remark that I am inventing right now but I am sure it does not entirely come out of my mind, an Italian who did not know how to write since his sonnets For Gracious Sake, are they sonnets? From: JforJames at aol.com Sent: Sunday, April 06, 2008 6:13 PM In a message dated 4/6/2008 11:49:46 AM Eastern Daylight Time, halvard at earthlink.net writes: Also, btw, my guess is that the so-called rules came after the poems, not before. But actually those "rules" are merely descriptive of how some poems/sonnets/etc. are written. Perhaps in part true, Hal. But I speculate the first poem that was to be a sonnet had at least the bare bones behind of plan behind its making, self-imposed guidelines established by its first maker. Likely it was an influential maker/artist who first laid out a few 'sonnets' and then others followed suit, copying the form/template so to speak. We know from his own testimony that Billy Collins invented his paradelle by laying down some arbitrary rules for its construction. It wasn't arrived at over time by critical consensus. Though many other forms were not initiated as a joke as the paradelle was, I'd bet the were arrived at in similar fashion. Maybe the historical record is in tatters and largely oral, but certainly 'the sonnet's history' has been studied in depth. Is there a 'first sonnet' and who were its first immitators? Where are the irregulars of this list's formalist brain trust? Answers please. What are the forms that have died out? The extinct species.Surely a few didn't make it over the long haul? Finnegan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames at aol.com Sun Apr 6 15:17:57 2008 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2008 15:17:57 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: Kenneth Koch "To Psychoanalysis" Message-ID: **************Planning your summer road trip? Check out AOL Travel Guides. (http://travel.aol.com/travel-guide/united-states?ncid=aoltrv00030000000016) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: "Knopf Poetry" Subject: Kenneth Koch "To Psychoanalysis" Date: Sun, 06 Apr 2008 10:00:25 -0400 (EDT) Size: 16789 URL: From me at johnathonwilliams.com Mon Apr 7 11:23:00 2008 From: me at johnathonwilliams.com (Johnathon Williams) Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2008 10:23:00 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Electronic Submissions In-Reply-To: <47ED78A3.1090009@opus40.org> References: <610247.21135.qm@web83301.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <86B3E721-68D4-463C-97F1-122D6DB2162A@earthlink.net> <8F5EE906-53CB-4CF4-B9F9-62F6C60A8FA9@johnathonwilliams.com> <47ED78A3.1090009@opus40.org> Message-ID: <93F2C9BE-D47B-4CB9-BF74-DD8B26D75E9D@johnathonwilliams.com> Hey Tad, Sorry to be so slow in responding to your questions. Life got away from me for a bit .... > I like the format. Is there an error in Zachary Schombuirg's > reading? He seems to be saying "chain and pendant," where on the > page the line seems to be "charm and pendant." Yup, there's an error. We sent the reader an original instead of the revised version, and there was a one-word difference. We're working on getting a corrected audio version for posterity. > The (unintelligible) is part of the poem? Interesting. And something > you couldn't do outside of an electronic format that includes audio. Yeah, neat huh? That was all Zach Schomburg's idea. > Since it's one poem, up for a week, have you thought of doing more > with the visual layout of the page? > > Have you considered putting more information (click to receive RSS > feed, ITunes podcast) on the page with the poem? Yeah, I considered it and went back and forth, but ultimately I wanted to keep everything as clean as possible. The design is something I worked on a for a long time, and the minimalism is intentional. I'm a bit of a design snob when it comes to web pages. Ninety-eight percent of them are far too cluttered for my tastes. Now that you mention it, though, I might add the podcast link to the toggle box under audio button ? that way it's available on the page, but not taking attention away from the poem. Thanks for taking the time to give us a look. :) -- Johnathon On Mar 28, 2008, at 6:00 PM, TheOldMole wrote: > Johnathon -- > > Nice poem by Anthony Robinson, at one time a member of this community. > > I like the format. Is there an error in Zachary Schombuirg's > reading? He seems to be saying "chain and pendant," where on the > page the line seems to be "charm and pendant." > > The (unintelligible) is part of the poem? Interesting. And something > you couldn't do outside of an electronic format that includes audio. > > Since it's one poem, up for a week, have you thought of doing more > with the visual layout of the page? > > Have you considered putting more information (click to receive RSS > feed, ITunes podcast) on the page with the poem? > > All in all, good luck with this. It's a great format. > > Johnathon Williams wrote: >> I edit an online poetry journal at Linebreak.org, and we only >> accept electronic submissions. The benefits are many: >> >> 1. Our staff can work from anywhere >> Electronic submissions allow myself and my two co-editors to >> collaborate remotely without the cost of photocopying and mailing. >> Our publication doesn't have an office or a mailing address ? only >> an URL. >> >> 2. Organization >> Electronic submissions eliminate the clutter of being inundated >> with reams of paper. There are no SASEs to track or manuscripts to >> return. We read, track, vote on, and accept/reject submissions >> through a shared Gmail account. All correspondence is archived >> online, which creates an instant record of everything we do. >> >> 3. Speed >> This is a byproduct of organization, I think. The delay between >> making the decision to reject or accept a poem and notifying the >> author of the decision is a matter of seconds. And because we can >> all access submissions at the same time, we make most decisions >> quickly. >> >>> Open electronic submissions can be debilitating, if one is not >>> careful. MiPOesias allowed these for awhile; I became >>> overwhelmed. I had to get assistants, and what began as a labor >>> of love became a labor. I found that many people did not read the >>> magazine before submitting. I rec'd a range that included poetry >>> I wouldn't look at cross-eyed, even some cowboy poetry. If many >>> of the submitters had read even two or three poets I was >>> publishing at the time of open submissions, it would have likely >>> cut my submissions in half. >> >> >> Amy's point above is true in our experience, too: some people who >> submit electronically obviously haven't read our archives. In our >> experience, though, the benefits of electronic subs far outweigh >> this one drawback. In our case, inappropriate submissions haven't >> been debilitating so much as slightly annoying. >> >> Aside from submissions, we manage all of our internal documents >> (style guide, production schedule, etc) online as well using Google >> Docs. I'd recommend a similar setup for anyone doing an online >> publication. >> >> By the way, we're a relatively new publication, and submissions are >> always welcome. You can check us out here: >> >> http://linebreak.org >> >> ----------------------------------------------------- >> Johnathon Williams >> Co-editor and webmaster >> http://linebreak.org >> http://madething.org >> me at johnathonwilliams.com >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> > > -- > Tad Richards > http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ > http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ > > The moral is this: in American verse, > The better you are, the pay is worse. > --Corey Ford > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Mon Apr 7 15:44:55 2008 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Mon, 07 Apr 2008 14:44:55 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] terror dactyls In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <47FA79B7.1060006@nut-n-but.net> JforJames at aol.com wrote: > A form as universally successful as the sonnet is bound to attract > artists who want to tinker > with its formal constraints or those who just want play with the form. > A true formalist like Mona > Van Duyn did a series of 'sonnets' with one word per line while > employing a rhyme scheme. Also, > there's to consider the break from the Italian form toward the English > sonnet form. What did > practitioners of the former at the time say/think about the liberties > taken by the latter? > > It seems easy enough these days to stick a modifier on the term if one > needs to make clear > distinction: 'traditional sonnet' or 'formal sonnet' would do the > trick. Or one could put quotes around > the non-traditonal sonnet, "In Ted Berrigan's 'sonnets' we see..." Why use the term, "sonnet," at all? Call everything a poem. I had a broken phone line so was dis-Internetted for thirty hours or so. Nearly committed suicide. Had one thought about naming in poetics: Who would go along with the idea of a one-line heroic couplet? I still hope to write something brilliant about why we should stop calling everything a sonnet--although I think I remember that at one time all lyric poems in English were called sonnets. Too zapped by phone line trouble and my usual over-extendedness to contribute more to this thread--at least for a while, if it keeps going. --Bob G. > > My philosophical side reminds me that poetic forms are not > like Plato's 'forms'. There isn't a universal > sonnet form/ideal that manifests itself in the language object we call > a sonnet. All forms arose > in some arbitrary fashion from a set of rules first laid down an often > unknown ur-maker. So in that sense > all forms are arbitrary and capricious. A certain14 line metered and > rimed creation becomes habituated > in the general practice of poets, while the twelve-liner or the > eighteen-liner never caught on. Many claims have been for special > qualities inherent in 14 lines (or the 8 + 6 mode), but most are > specious. > Finnegan > > In a message dated 4/5/2008 5:52:47 PM Eastern Daylight Time, > jjeffreymail at yahoo.com writes: > > You're right, of course, in yawning. It is all about the poem's > worth. I guess I'm just sick of all the stretching of terms to > the point where they're useless. And it's not just sonnets, it's > poetry itself. It's capital A Art itself. I think instead I'll > go read a Shakespeare's villanelle, or maybe I'm in the mood for > Basho's heroic couplets. > > John > > > */David Graham /* wrote: > > These discussions sometimes make me scratch my head, but more > often they just make my eyes glaze over. I agree with John > Jeffrey, as it happens, but so what? I'm very interested in > whether or not a given poem is a good one. But whether it is > or is not a sonnet? Yawn . . . . > > I'm content when someone says that a sonnet must have 14 lines > and a rhyme scheme; and I'm equally happy when Gerald Stern > insists that a sonnet is simply a "little song" and need have > no particular shape. I probably wouldn't follow his example > myself, but again: who cares? And why? > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Planning your summer road trip? Check out AOL Travel Guides > . > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From shin02143 at aol.com Mon Apr 7 15:39:17 2008 From: shin02143 at aol.com (shin02143 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 07 Apr 2008 15:39:17 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] terror dactyls In-Reply-To: <47FA79B7.1060006@nut-n-but.net> References: <47FA79B7.1060006@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <8CA66FE336BC363-700-1E78@FWM-M03.sysops.aol.com> All, Seems to me Elizabeth Bishop wrote a "sestina" with only one word a line. Did I remember correctly? Doing something like this is of course a jest. For some reason poets from at least Petrarch onwards have seen fit to formalize the so-called sonnet, and people have more or less adhered to the form right through to modern times incl. Seamus Heaney and other living folks. I don't argue that one needs to use archaic English (heaven forbid!) to make a sonnet "feel" like a sonnet (whatever that means), but I do feel that if one wants to call their poem a sonnet there should be some effort to conform to the traditional form. There are plenty of approaches to the rhyme scheme in addition to myriad slant rhyme possibilities and possible fudging with the rhythm that still make it possible to write lots of meaningful sonnets (twelve-tone composer Arnold Schoenberg said "There are still plenty of good pieces to be written in C Major" - the principle applies here to sonnets methinks). Of course, if one wants to call such a poem simply "poem" and go wild with it that's fine with me, if my opinion is worth anything. Richard -----Original Message----- From: Bob Grumman Sent: Mon, 7 Apr 2008 3:44 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] terror dactyls JforJames at aol.com wrote: A form as universally successful as the sonnet is bound to attract artists who want to tinker with its formal?constraints or those who just want?play with the form. A true formalist like Mona Van Duyn did a series of 'sonnets' with one word per line while employing?a rhyme scheme. Also, there's to consider the break from the Italian form toward the English sonnet?form. What did practitioners of the former at the time?say/think about the liberties taken by the latter? ? It seems easy enough these days to stick a modifier on the term if one needs to make clear distinction: 'traditional sonnet' or 'formal sonnet' would do the trick. Or one could put quotes around the non-traditonal sonnet, "In Ted?Berrigan's 'sonnets' we see..." Why use the term, "sonnet," at all?? Call everything a poem.? I had a broken phone line so was dis-Internetted for thirty hours or so.? Nearly committed suicide.? Had one thought about naming in poetics: Who would go along with the idea of a one-line heroic couplet?? I still hope to write something brilliant about why we should stop calling everything a sonnet--although I think I remember that at one time all lyric poems in English were called sonnets.? Too zapped by phone line trouble and my usual over-extendedness to contribute more to this thread--at least for a while, if it keeps going. --Bob G. ? My philosophical side reminds me that poetic forms are not like?Plato's 'forms'. There isn't a?universal sonnet form/ideal that manifests itself in?the language object we call a sonnet. All forms arose in?some?arbitrary fashion from a?set of rules first laid down?an often unknown ur-maker. So in that sense all forms are arbitrary and capricious. A certain14 line metered and rimed creation becomes habituated in the general practice of poets, while the twelve-liner or the eighteen-liner never caught on. Many claims have been for?special qualities inherent in 14 lines (or the?8?+ 6 mode),?but most are specious. Finnegan ? In a message dated 4/5/2008 5:52:47 PM Eastern Daylight Time, jjeffreymail at yahoo.com writes: You're right, of course, in yawning.? It is all about the poem's worth.? I guess I'm just sick of all the stretching of terms to the point where they're useless.? And it's not just sonnets, it's poetry itself.? It's capital A Art itself.? I think instead I'll go read a Shakespeare's villanelle, or maybe I'm in the mood for Basho's heroic couplets. John David Graham wrote: These discussions sometimes make me scratch my head, but more often they just make my eyes glaze over. ?I agree with John Jeffrey, as it happens, but so what? ?I'm very interested in whether or not a given poem is a good one. ?But whether it is or is not a sonnet? ?Yawn . . . . I'm content when someone says that a sonnet must have 14 lines and a rhyme scheme; and I'm equally happy when Gerald Stern insists that a sonnet is simply a "little song" and need have no particular shape. ?I probably wouldn't follow his example myself, but again: ?who cares? ?And why? ? Planning your summer road trip? Check out AOL Travel Guides. _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at earthlink.net Mon Apr 7 17:34:38 2008 From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson) Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2008 17:34:38 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Sonnet: The Defiant Asking of Questions . . . Message-ID: Sonnet: The Defiant Asking of Questions in the Face of Permanent Ontological Uncertainty I want to know why so few of us wonder why so many of us, when asked "Who is it?" after someone answers our phone call or after we buzz an apartment from the lobby, respond with "It's me," (I know, I know, it should be "It's I"-- we're nobody's fool), never doubting for a moment that whoever's answering that phone or that buzz will know that it's us and not some other "me" who might have placed that phone call or rung that buzzer, are surprised, if not agitated, when the answerer up in the apartment or at the other end of the line, says "Thanks so much for your time" and hangs up the phone or releases the intercom button, not even dreaming that we might in fact be the me he or she had been expecting to call or even drop by for a visit. Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd at ripon.edu Mon Apr 7 20:56:59 2008 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2008 19:56:59 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Pulitzers announced Message-ID: <200804080057.m380v028030822@mail62c35.nsolutionszone.com> Robert Hass & Philip Schultz have won in the poetry category. Has there ever been a joint award before? If I were Ellen Bryant Voigt, the only other nominee, I'd feel pretty poorly about now. . . . ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.mac.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From AlMaginnes at aol.com Mon Apr 7 21:03:58 2008 From: AlMaginnes at aol.com (AlMaginnes at aol.com) Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2008 21:03:58 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Pulitzers announced Message-ID: Ellen Voigt's book was better than Hass's. I haven't read Schultz's, but this seemed like the judges trying not to piss anyone off. And I guess they figured since women from the south won the last two... **************Planning your summer road trip? Check out AOL Travel Guides. (http://travel.aol.com/travel-guide/united-states?ncid=aoltrv00030000000016) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd at ripon.edu Mon Apr 7 21:07:38 2008 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2008 20:07:38 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Pulitzers announced In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200804080107.m3817dwb014885@mail27c35.nsolutionszone.com> Jurors for the poetry award, for what it's worth, were Claudia Emerson, Natasha Trethewey, and Wesley McNair. ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.mac.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== On Apr 7, 2008, at 8:03 PM, AlMaginnes at aol.com wrote: > Ellen Voigt's book was better than Hass's. I haven't read > Schultz's, but this seemed like the judges trying not to piss > anyone off. And I guess they figured since women from the south won > the last two... > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From AlMaginnes at aol.com Mon Apr 7 21:14:00 2008 From: AlMaginnes at aol.com (AlMaginnes at aol.com) Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2008 21:14:00 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Pulitzers announced Message-ID: Well, so much for my theory of anti southern woman bias. Still, Hass's book was one of my real disappointments of 2007. The awards coming for this book feel more to me like lifetime achievement awards. **************Planning your summer road trip? Check out AOL Travel Guides. (http://travel.aol.com/travel-guide/united-states?ncid=aoltrv00030000000016) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd at ripon.edu Wed Apr 9 12:49:54 2008 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2008 11:49:54 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Head scratch Message-ID: <200804091649.m39Gnssp002911@mail30c35.nsolutionszone.com> Sometimes I just scratch my head at the Academy of American Poets. Today's daily poem offering, from Richard Kenney, strikes me as a most clunky bit of doggerel. It's titled "A Pot of Tea." Here's are 2 stanzas; see what you think: Ginseng or the scent of lymph Or consequences queasing Into wide awareness, whence, Like an engine seizing Society remits a shudder Showing it has feeling, And the divers all have shaving cuts And the future?s in Darjeeling? And here's the whole thing, if you're thirsty for more: http://www.poets.org/sponsor-book-profile.php/prmBookID/512/ prmSponsorID/167? utm_source=poemaday_040908&utm_medium=newsletter&utm_campaign=content_li nk&utm_term=conent_sponsorbook You certainly won't want to miss the rhyme of "earring" with "Hermann G?ring," in any case. Yes, I know that this is probably intended to be gloriously Byronic and breezy, but my ears catch mostly the huffing of someone who's trying too hard. *This* is the long-awaited book from Kenney--winner of both the Yale Younger & a MacArthur? This is the best Knopf can find to publish these days, and the Academy to spotlight? Kenney's written some very fine verse, and I hope the rest of his new book contains nothing but. But. . . . ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.mac.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at tin.it Wed Apr 9 13:07:39 2008 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2008 19:07:39 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Head scratch In-Reply-To: <200804091649.m39Gnssp002911@mail30c35.nsolutionszone.com> References: <200804091649.m39Gnssp002911@mail30c35.nsolutionszone.com> Message-ID: I'm with you David, even without reading more. ----- Original Message ----- From: David Graham To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu & Views Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2008 6:49 PM Subject: [New-Poetry] Head scratch Sometimes I just scratch my head at the Academy of American Poets. Today's daily poem offering, from Richard Kenney, strikes me as a most clunky bit of doggerel. It's titled "A Pot of Tea." Here's are 2 stanzas; see what you think: Ginseng or the scent of lymph Or consequences queasing Into wide awareness, whence, Like an engine seizing Society remits a shudder Showing it has feeling, And the divers all have shaving cuts And the future?s in Darjeeling? And here's the whole thing, if you're thirsty for more: http://www.poets.org/sponsor-book-profile.php/prmBookID/512/prmSponsorID/167?utm_source=poemaday_040908&utm_medium=newsletter&utm_campaign=content_link&utm_term=conent_sponsorbook You certainly won't want to miss the rhyme of "earring" with "Hermann G?ring," in any case. Yes, I know that this is probably intended to be gloriously Byronic and breezy, but my ears catch mostly the huffing of someone who's trying too hard. *This* is the long-awaited book from Kenney--winner of both the Yale Younger & a MacArthur? This is the best Knopf can find to publish these days, and the Academy to spotlight? Kenney's written some very fine verse, and I hope the rest of his new book contains nothing but. But. . . . ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.mac.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.10/1367 - Release Date: 4/9/2008 7:10 AM -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From skip at louisiana.edu Wed Apr 9 13:11:50 2008 From: skip at louisiana.edu (Skip Fox) Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2008 12:11:50 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Head scratch In-Reply-To: <200804091649.m39Gnssp002911@mail30c35.nsolutionszone.com> Message-ID: <000501c89a64$d32df270$3b874682@win.louisiana.edu> If one hath thirst for more of this, water is beyond imagining. -----Original Message----- From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of David Graham Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2008 11:50 AM To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu & Views Subject: [New-Poetry] Head scratch Sometimes I just scratch my head at the Academy of American Poets. Today's daily poem offering, from Richard Kenney, strikes me as a most clunky bit of doggerel. It's titled "A Pot of Tea." Here's are 2 stanzas; see what you think: Ginseng or the scent of lymph Or consequences queasing Into wide awareness, whence, Like an engine seizing Society remits a shudder Showing it has feeling, And the divers all have shaving cuts And the future?s in Darjeeling? And here's the whole thing, if you're thirsty for more: http://www.poets.org/sponsor-book-profile.php/prmBookID/512/prmSponsorID/167 ?utm_source=poemaday_040908 &utm_medium=newsletter&utm_campaign=content_link&utm_term=conent_sponsorbook You certainly won't want to miss the rhyme of "earring" with "Hermann G?ring," in any case. Yes, I know that this is probably intended to be gloriously Byronic and breezy, but my ears catch mostly the huffing of someone who's trying too hard. *This* is the long-awaited book from Kenney--winner of both the Yale Younger & a MacArthur? This is the best Knopf can find to publish these days, and the Academy to spotlight? Kenney's written some very fine verse, and I hope the rest of his new book contains nothing but. But. . . . ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.mac.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Opus40-01 at opus40.org Wed Apr 9 20:27:25 2008 From: Opus40-01 at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Wed, 09 Apr 2008 20:27:25 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Head scratch In-Reply-To: <200804091649.m39Gnssp002911@mail30c35.nsolutionszone.com> References: <200804091649.m39Gnssp002911@mail30c35.nsolutionszone.com> Message-ID: <47FD5EED.4060908@opus40.org> It doesn't really scan all that well, either. David Graham wrote: > Sometimes I just scratch my head at the Academy of American Poets. > Today's daily poem offering, from Richard Kenney, strikes me as a > most clunky bit of doggerel. > > It's titled "A Pot of Tea." Here's are 2 stanzas; see what you think: > > Ginseng or the scent of lymph > Or consequences queasing > Into wide awareness, whence, > Like an engine seizing > > Society remits a shudder > Showing it has feeling, > And the divers all have shaving cuts > And the future?s in Darjeeling? > > And here's the whole thing, if you're thirsty for more: > > > http://www.poets.org/sponsor-book-profile.php/prmBookID/512/prmSponsorID/167?utm_source=poemaday_040908&utm_medium=newsletter&utm_campaign=content_link&utm_term=conent_sponsorbook > > > You certainly won't want to miss the rhyme of "earring" with "Hermann > G?ring," in any case. Yes, I know that this is probably intended to > be gloriously Byronic and breezy, but my ears catch mostly the huffing > of someone who's trying too hard. > > *This* is the long-awaited book from Kenney--winner of both the Yale > Younger & a MacArthur? This is the best Knopf can find to publish > these days, and the Academy to spotlight? Kenney's written some very > fine verse, and I hope the rest of his new book contains nothing but. > But. . . . > > > > > ======================================== > David Graham > grahamd at ripon.edu > > Home Page: > http://web.mac.com/drjazz > > Poetry Library: > http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html > ========================================== > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ The moral is this: in American verse, The better you are, the pay is worse. --Corey Ford From amyhappens at yahoo.com Thu Apr 10 15:57:42 2008 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king) Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2008 12:57:42 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Almost a week ... Message-ID: <297240.11786.qm@web83312.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> My new blog address almost-explains the ether I disappeared into for the past almost-week: http://www.amyking.org Please email again if you called and didn't receive a reply (amyhappens at gmail dot com) -- You! Amy _______ http://www.amyking.org http://demonoide.org http://redherring.us http://poetryexperiment.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Thu Apr 10 17:39:20 2008 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2008 17:39:20 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Head scratch In-Reply-To: <200804091649.m39Gnssp002911@mail30c35.nsolutionszone.com> References: <200804091649.m39Gnssp002911@mail30c35.nsolutionszone.com> Message-ID: <8CA696A78325CF9-1618-2832@FWM-D20.sysops.aol.com> Ideas stain the limpid mind Even while it?s sleeping: Perhaps the lines above from the poem are meant to indicate that it's?a 'dream poem'. If so, I think he's getting too much sleep. Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: David Graham To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu & Views Sent: Wed, 9 Apr 2008 12:49 pm Subject: [New-Poetry] Head scratch Sometimes I just scratch my head at the Academy of American Poets. ?Today's daily poem offering, from Richard Kenney, strikes me as a most clunky bit of doggerel. It's titled "A Pot of Tea." ?Here's are 2 stanzas; see what you think: Ginseng or the scent of lymph Or consequences queasing Into wide awareness, whence, Like an engine seizing Society remits a shudder Showing it has feeling, And the divers all have shaving cuts And the future?s in Darjeeling? And here's the whole thing, if you're thirsty for more: http://www.poets.org/sponsor-book-profile.php/prmBookID/512/prmSponsorID/167?utm_source=poemaday_040908&utm_medium=newsletter&utm_campaign=content_link&utm_term=conent_sponsorbook You certainly won't want to miss the rhyme of "earring" with "Hermann G?ring," in any case. ?Yes, I know that this is probably intended to be gloriously Byronic and breezy, but my ears catch mostly the huffing of someone who's trying too hard. *This* is the long-awaited book from Kenney--winner of both the Yale Younger & a MacArthur? ?This is the best Knopf can find to publish these days, and the Academy to spotlight? ?Kenney's written some very fine verse, and I hope the rest of his new book contains nothing but. ?But. . . .? ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.mac.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== = _______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames at aol.com Thu Apr 10 20:23:21 2008 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2008 20:23:21 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Epic poetry, with extensive incisors Message-ID: _http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=87892707_ (http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=87892707) 'Sharp Teeth' Gives Werewolves an Epic Treatment by Rick Kleffel Listen Now [4 min 55 sec] add to playlist Toby Barlow's debut novel, Sharp Teeth, is a tale of werewolves ? written in free verse. Courtesy of HarperCollins Weekend Edition Sunday, March 23, 2008 ? In Toby Barlow's debut novel, Sharp Teeth, competing packs of werewolves have plans to take over Los Angeles. But if Barlow's book reads less like science fiction and more like a heroic epic poem, that's because it's written in free verse. Barlow describes the **************Planning your summer road trip? Check out AOL Travel Guides. (http://travel.aol.com/travel-guide/united-states?ncid=aoltrv00030000000016) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames at aol.com Thu Apr 10 21:42:20 2008 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2008 21:42:20 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Santa Fe Writers' Conference July 21-25 2008 Message-ID: In a message dated 4/9/2008 5:08:59 PM Eastern Daylight Time, jgharib at recursos.org writes: Santa Fe Writers? Conference Women Write July 21-25, 2008 ?I consider myself a performance writer. I feel, as a Chicana writer, that I am capturing the voice of so many who have been voiceless for years. My work is rooted in the Southwest, in heat and dust, and reflects a world where love is as real as the land. In this seemingly harsh and empty world there is much beauty to be found. That hope of the heart is what feeds me?? - Denise Ch?vez ?A quality I?ve often encountered in the great women leaders of our time, as well as in the amazing novels that we write (is) largeness of spirit, generosity, a quality of respect and regard?? - Sallie Bingham Program Here in the Southwest, a beautiful and a harsh land has fostered a centuries old heritage of storytelling: women?s narratives, indigenous stories, the stories of the antepasados, ancestral stories ancestors from our many cultures that resonate with love, food, drama and triumph. Women writers honoring this legacy will gather in Santa Fe to share and listen. Performance writer Denise Ch?vez will host a ?Taco-rama,? with repast of celebratory family and food stories, Elena D?az Bjorkq?ist will offer a Corrido (ballad) writing workshop. Sources of inspiration including the land, families and dreams will be explored. There will be opportunity to hear from respected authors who live and work in the Southwest, including author Natalie Goldberg, on memoir; Sallie Bingham, fiction; Julie Shigekuni, fiction, Lisa Dale Norton, narrative non-fiction; Leigh Haber, super agent and other well known professional authors. This conference will explore the necessity of stories: your own, others; finding a narrative that makes sense of a torn and chaotic world; and the particular role of women in knitting together stories all kinds of stories from the heartland of women?s lives. It is arranged rather like a sampler, set up so that writers may explore new forms of writing and expand their creativity. Register for the entire conference or for an intriguing one or two-day session. Faculty ELLEN BERKOWITZ has written art criticism for Art in American and Art News. SANDRA BLAKESLEE is an award-winning science writer for the New York Times. For the last ten years, she has carved out a specialty in neuroscience, although her ?Science Times? articles cover many topics. SALLIE BINGHAM is an author, playwright, poet and feminist. She is the author of seven books, including the best known, Passion and Prejudice: A Family Memoir, an account of the breakup of her family publishing empire. She has also penned more than a dozen plays. Her latest book, Red Car, is a collection of short stories. ELENA D?AZ BJORKQUIST is the author of a collection of short stories about Morenci, Arizona, entitled Suffer Smoke, and a collection of young adult stories, Water From the Moon. Elena is also a Chautauqua performer, an artist, and a historian. DENISE CH?VEZ is a performance writer, novelist and Director of the Border Book Festival in Mesilla, NM. Her books include The Last of the Menu Girls, Face of an Angel, Loving Pedro Infante, and her most recent, a memoir entitled A Taco Testimony: Meditations on Family, Food and Culture. NATALIE GOLDBERG, whose latest book, Old Friend from Far Away, is the most recent addition to a long list of books. Writing Down the Bones: Freeing the Writer Within, broke open the world of creativity and started a revolution in the way we practice writing in this country. The book has sold over one million copies and has been translated into 13 languages. Natalie has been practicing Zen meditation and teaching seminars in writing as a practice for the last twenty-five years. NANCY LORENZA GREEN is an Afro-Chicana performance and recording artist from Cd. Ju?rez/El Paso who uses poetry, percussion and flute music as a medium for communication and cultural expression. She has three CD?s and has performed at the Border Book Festival, and been published in Border Senses and Chrysalis. LEIGH HABER is vice-president and editorial director of a new imprint, Modern Times. The imprint is a division of Rodale, publishing a wide range of non-fiction, including current affairs, journalism, politics, memoir and narrative non-fiction. Over the course of her career, she has worked with Steve Martin (three books, including Shopgirl), Al Gore (An Inconvenient Truth, and a forthcoming book on solutions to the climate crisis), Bill Maher, Laurie Garrett, Peter Jennings, Marcus Mabry, Brooks Hansen and William Greider. BARBARA HARRELSON is a writer, lecturer living in Santa Fe. Applications To reserve your place, apply online at _www.santafewritersconference.com_ (http://www.santafewritersconference.com/) or send a letter of application that includes: Your name, address, telephone number and e-mail address. A non-refundable deposit of $200 (check to Santa Fe Writers Conference or MD/Visa number, expiration date and authorizing signature). Mail registrations to: Ellen Bradbury-Reid 826 Camino de Monte Rey A/3 Santa Fe, NM 87505 The fee of $575 includes all workshops, talks and receptions. The one-day fee is $150. See website www.santafewritersconference.com for daily schedule and cancellation and refund policy. Santa Fe has always attracted artists and writers to its stunning setting and vibrant literary community. Participants in the conference will have a first hand chance to meet and enjoy some of the best Latina writers in the country, as well as savor the unique mix of cultures that characterizes New Mexico. At 7,000 feet, Santa Fe days are warm and the nights cool, a wonderful environment for your visit. Cancellation and Refund Policy. See website for details. Hotel reservations should be made directly with Hotel St. Francis where a special conference rate is offered for a limited number of rooms. Hotel St. Francis, an historic inn with restaurant, bar and group meeting facilities, is just one block south of the old Santa Fe Plaza, ringed with museums, shops and restaurants. Renovated in 1986, the original hotel was built in 1923 and has a unique charm created by the combination of 1920s style and distinctly Southwestern elements such as clay tile floors, grand fireplaces and wrought iron chandeliers in the spacious lobby. A limited number of rooms have been set-aside for conference participants at a special rate. Spanish Market is a busy time so please make your reservations early. If you plan to extend your stay at the St. Francis do mention it when you book your room?this is a very popular weekend. Contact Sales/Catering Manager, 210 Don Gaspar Ave., Santa Fe, NM, 87501 (505) 992-6354 or (800) 529-5700 or reservations at hotelstfrancis.com. Sessions This year we have a flexible format. There will be talks, given by a varied faculty, and a chance for individual sessions, one-on-one with the faculty, for an additional fee. There will be readings and panels, but every attendee will have an opportunity to hear every speaker. To sign up for an intensive with any of the faculty please submit ten pages of a manuscript at least two weeks before the conference so it can be sent on to your particular mentor. All of the faculty are accomplished writers and teachers, prepared to assist participants ranging in experience from beginning to advanced writers, on an individual basis. This years dates take advantage of the July 25-26, ending in Spanish Market. This is one of Santa Fe?s many festival markets, where local and regional artists, tinsmiths and weavers display their best work. Many of the items seen at Spanish Market today could have been seen in the Spanish Colonial period of the 1600?s. There is also a Contemporary Spanish Market section, showcasing wonderful pieces with new trends and materials. **************Planning your summer road trip? Check out AOL Travel Guides. (http://travel.aol.com/travel-guide/united-states?ncid=aoltrv00030000000016) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From amyhappens at yahoo.com Fri Apr 11 12:30:55 2008 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king) Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2008 09:30:55 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Ron Padgett Sings His Poems on A Prairie Home Companion Message-ID: <56957.17010.qm@web83312.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Well, he doesn't exactly sing ... April 5, 2008 This week on A Prairie Home Companion, we?re setting up ourgiant radio antenna atop the historic Town Hall in New York City for three shows in April. Thisweek?s special guests include, the phenomenon in boots and a hat, Brad Paisley,American film actress Kimberly Williams-Paisley, poet Ron Padgett, and thesubject of more email inquiries at APHC than anyone else, legendary Scottishfolk-singer Jean Redpath. Also with us, The Royal Academy of Radio Actors: TimRussell, Sue Scott, and Fred Newman, The Guy?s All-Star Shoe Band, and The Newsfrom Lake Wobegon. Join us this week fromaction-packed West 43rd & Broadway. http://prairiehome.publicradio.org/programs/2008/04/05/ _______ http://www.amyking.org http://redherring.us __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Fri Apr 11 18:38:36 2008 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2008 18:38:36 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Young gets Cody Message-ID: <8CA6A3BEA7DE2E9-1014-39D2@mblk-d47.sysops.aol.com> http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/04/10/DDPV101GSL.DTL Poet Al Young to receive Cody Award Heidi Benson, Chronicle Staff Writer Friday, April 11, 2008 ? California poet laureate Al Young will receive the Fred Cody Award for lifetime achievement when the 27th annual Northern California Book Awards are given out at a gala celebration at the San Francisco Public Library on Sunday afternoon. Young's most recent books are "Coastal Nights and Inland Afternoons: Poems 2001-2006" and "Something About the Blues." The Fred Cody Award is named for the beloved bookseller who founded Cody's Books with his wife, Pat, in Berkeley in 1956. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Fri Apr 11 18:41:04 2008 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2008 18:41:04 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: ABC Radio National Books and Drama newsletter, 11-18 April In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8CA6A3C4241E0C9-1014-39E6@mblk-d47.sysops.aol.com> ABC Radio National Books and Drama newsletter, 11-18 April ABC Radio National Books and Drama newsletter 11-18 April 2008 POETICA 12/4/2008 15:00 17/4/2008 15:00 GLUTTONY, featuring Pippa Grandison, William Zappa, Leon Ewing, and Susan Prior, produced by Robyn Ravlich URL: http://www.abc.net.au/rn/poetica/stories/2008/2175129.htm Following the trajectory of Berthold Brecht's famous lyric 'Food first, morals follow on' in the song 'What Keeps Mankind Alive', Gluttony is a graphic and highly sonic exploration of excessive appetites for food, love, drugs... and then its counterpoint, starvation. We hear poetry from Pablo Neruda, Shakespeake, DH Lawrence, Richard Tipping, Sylvia Plath and more. A EDITING POET GWEN HARWOOD URL: http://www.abc.net.au/rn/bookshow/stories/2008/2214519.htm Gwen Harwood expressed strong views about editors, especially those 'who couldn't tell poetry from a bunyip's arse'. However, she was friends with one of her editors, Allison Hoddinott for 40 years. Poet and letter writer, Gwen Harwood died in 1995 and Allison Hoddinott writes about her relationship with the acclaimed writer in the Island magazine. 17/4/2008 =================================================================== To sign off this mail list or for further information go to: http://www.abc.net.au/rn/newsletters/booksanddrama/ If you have comments or suggestions email us at: airplay at your.abc.net.au Radio National is the Australian Broadcasting Corporation's specialist journalism and arts network, broadcasting across Australia. Radio National homepage: http://abc.net/rn Tune in: http://abc.net.au/rn/freq/map.htm -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Fri Apr 11 18:52:35 2008 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2008 18:52:35 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Dead Poet Walking Message-ID: <8CA6A3DDE438EA9-1014-3A4A@mblk-d47.sysops.aol.com> http://uk.reuters.com/article/lifestyleMolt/idUKT20502120080411 Death row poet executed in Japan Fri Apr 11, 2008 2:32am BST? Email | Print | Share| Single Page| Recommend (0) [-] Text [+] By Isabel Reynolds TOKYO (Reuters Life!) - A convicted murderer who turned to writing poetry for solace while on death row was among four prisoners executed in Japan on Thursday. Kaoru Akinaga, who was found guilty of two 1989 murders as well as fraud, drugs and arms offences, wrote to a Japanese poetry society in 2004, asking to be allowed to study and write "tanka" short verse from his prison cell -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Fri Apr 11 19:55:08 2008 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2008 19:55:08 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: Poem of the Week- Mark Doty In-Reply-To: <002f01c89bdc$5e1257f0$0e02a8c0@Schlueter> References: <002f01c89bdc$5e1257f0$0e02a8c0@Schlueter> Message-ID: <8CA6A469B1B74C7-A4C-3A5F@FWM-M43.sysops.aol.com> -----Original Message----- From: PoemoftheWeek.org To: Poem of theWeek Sent: Fri, 11 Apr 2008 10:00 am Subject: Poem of the Week- Mark Doty Poem Of The Week?? 04-11-08? ? ???????????????????? Mark Doty ? ???????????????????? Mark Doty ? Demolition? ? ? ? The intact facade's now almost black in the rain; all day they've torn at the back of the building, "the oldest concrete structure in New England," the newspaper said. By afternoon, when the backhoe claw appears above three stories of columns and cornices, the crowd beneath their massed umbrellas cheer. Suddenly the stairs seem to climb down themselves, atomized plaster billowing: dust of 1907's rooming house, this year's bake shop and florist's, the ghosts of their signs faint above the windows lined, last week, with loaves and blooms. We love disasters that have nothing to do with us: the metal scoop seems shy, tentative, a Japanese monster tilting its yellow head and considering what to topple next. It's a weekday, and those of us with the leisure to watch are out of work, unemployable or academics, joined by a thirst for watching something fall. All summer, at loose ends, I've read biographies, Wilde and Robert Lowell, and fallen asleep over a fallen hero lurching down a Paris boulevard, talking his way to dinner or a drink, unable to forget the vain and stupid boy he allowed to ruin him. And I dreamed I was Lowell, in a manic flight of failing and ruthless energy, and understood how wrong I was with a passionate exactitude which had to be like his. A month ago, at Saint-Gauden's house, we ran from a startling downpour into coincidence: under a loggia built for performances on the lawn hulked Shaw's monument, splendid in its plaster maquette, the ramrod-straight colonel high above his black troops. We crouched on wet gravel and waited out the squall; the hieratic woman -- a wingless angel? -- floating horizontally above the soldiers, her robe billowing like plaster dust, seemed so far above us, another century's allegorical decor, an afterthought who'd never descend to the purely physical soldiers, the nearly breathing bronze ranks crushed into a terrible compression of perspective, as if the world hurried them into the ditch. "The unreadable," Wilde said, "is what occurs." And when the brutish metal rears above the wall of unglazed windows -- where, in a week, the kids will skateboard in their lovely loops and spray their indecipherable ideograms across the parking lot -- the single standing wall seems Roman, momentarily, an aqueduct, all that's left of something difficult to understand now, something Oscar and Bosie might have posed before, for a photograph. Aqueducts and angels, here on Main, seem merely souvenirs; the gaps where the windows opened once into transients' rooms are pure sky. It's strange how much more beautiful the sky is to us when it's framed by these columned openings someone meant us to take for stone. The enormous, articulate shovel nudges the highest row of moldings and the whole thing wavers as though we'd dreamed it, our black classic, and it topples all at once.? ? ? Fog ? ? ? The crested iris by the front gate waves its blue flags three days, exactly, then they vanish. The peony buds' tight wrappings are edged crimson; when they open, a little blood-color will ruffle at the heart of the flounced, unbelievable white. Three weeks after the test, the vial filled from the crook of my elbow, I'm seeing blood everywhere: a casual nick from the garden shears, a shaving cut and I feel the physical rush of the welling up, the wine-fountain dark as Siberian iris. The thin green porcelain teacup, our homemade Ouija's planchette, rocks and wobbles every night, spins and spells. It seems a cloud of spirits numerous as lilac panicles vie for occupancy -- children grabbing for the telephone, happy to talk to someone who isn't dead yet? Everyone wants to speak at once, or at least these random words appear, incongruous and exactly spelled: energy, immunity, kiss. Then: M. has immunity. W. has. And that was all. One character, Frank, distinguishes himself: a boy who lived in our house in the thirties, loved dogs and gangster movies, longs for a body, says he can watch us through the television, asks us to stand before the screen and kiss. God in garden, he says. Sitting out on the back porch at twilight, I'm almost convinced. In this geometry of paths and raised beds, the green shadows of delphinium, there's an unseen rustling: some secret amplitude seems to open in this orderly space. Maybe because it contains so much dying, all these tulip petals thinning at the base until any wind takes them. I doubt anyone else would see that, looking in, and then I realize my garden has no outside, only is subjectively. As blood is utterly without an outside, can't be seen except out of context, the wrong color in alien air, no longer itself. Though it submits to test, two, to be exact, each done three times, though not for me, since at their first entry into my disembodied blood there was nothing at home there. For you they entered the blood garden over and over, like knocking at a door because you know someone's home. Three times the Elisa Test, three the Western Blot, and then the incoherent message. We're the public health care worker's nine o'clock appointment, she is a phantom hand who forms the letters of your name, and the word that begins with P. I'd lie out and wait for the god if it weren't so cold, the blue moon huge and disruptive above the flowering crab's foaming collapse. The spirits say Fog when they can't speak clearly and the letters collide; sometimes for them there's nothing outside the mist of their dying. Planchette, peony, I would think of anything not to say the word. Maybe the blood in the flower is a god's. Kiss me, in front of the screen, please, the dead are watching. They haven't had enough yet. Every new bloom is falling apart. I would say anything else in the world, any other word. then they vanish. The peony buds' tight wrappings are edged crimson; when they open, a little blood-color will ruffle at the heart of the flounced, unbelievable white. Three weeks after the test, the vial filled from the crook of my elbow, I'm seeing blood everywhere: a casual nick from the garden shears, a shaving cut and I feel the physical rush of the welling up, the wine-fountain dark as Siberian iris. The thin green porcelain teacup, our homemade Ouija's planchette, rocks and wobbles every night, spins and spells. It seems a cloud of spirits numerous as lilac panicles vie for occupancy -- children grabbing for the telephone, happy to talk to someone who isn't dead yet? Everyone wants to speak at once, or at least these random words appear, incongruous and exactly spelled: energy, immunity, kiss. Then: M. has immunity. W. has. And that was all. One character, Frank, distinguishes himself: a boy who lived in our house in the thirties, loved dogs and gangster movies, longs for a body, says he can watch us through the television, asks us to stand before the screen and kiss. God in garden, he says. Sitting out on the back porch at twilight, I'm almost convinced. In this geometry of paths and raised beds, the green shadows of delphinium, there's an unseen rustling: some secret amplitude seems to open in this orderly space. Maybe because it contains so much dying, all these tulip petals thinning at the base until any wind takes them. I doubt anyone else would see that, looking in, and then I realize my garden has no outside, only is subjectively. As blood is utterly without an outside, can't be seen except out of context, the wrong color in alien air, no longer itself. Though it submits to test, two, to be exact, each done three times, though not for me, since at their first entry into my disembodied blood there was nothing at home there. For you they entered the blood garden over and over, like knocking at a door because you know someone's home. Three times the Elisa Test, three the Western Blot, and then the incoherent message. We're the public health care worker's nine o'clock appointment, she is a phantom hand who forms the letters of your name, and the word that begins with P. I'd lie out and wait for the god if it weren't so cold, the blue moon huge and disruptive above the flowering crab's foaming collapse. The spirits say Fog when they can't speak clearly and the letters collide; sometimes for them there's nothing outside the mist of their dying. Planchette, peony, I would think of anything not to say the word. Maybe the blood in the flower is a god's. Kiss me, in front of the screen, please, the dead are watching. They haven't had enough yet. Every new bloom is falling apart. I would say anything else in the world, any other word. ????????? -from My Alexandria, 1993 ? ? ? Mark Doty is the author of seven books of poems, among them School of the Arts, Source, Sweet Machine, Atlantis, and My Alexandria. He has also published three volumes of nonfiction prose:? Still Life with Oysters and Lemon, Heaven's Coast and Firebird. ? Doty?s poems have appeared in many magazines including The Atlantic Monthly, The London Review of Books, Ploughshares, Poetry, and?The New Yorker.? Widely?anthologized, his poems appear in?The Norton Anthology of Contemporary American Poetry?and many other collections.? ? Doty has received the National Book Critics Circle Award, the Los Angeles Times Book Prize, a Whiting Writers Award, two Lambda Literary Awards? and the PEN/Martha Albrand Award for First Nonfiction.?He is the only American poet to have received the T.S. Eliot Prize in the U.K., and has received?fellowships from the Guggenheim, Ingram Merrill and Lila Wallace/Readers Digest Foundations, and from the National Endowment for the Arts. ? Doty lives in New York City and in Houston, Texas, where he is the John and Rebecca Moores Professor in the graduate program?at the University of Houston. ? ? Ouija and Garden and Fog, an Interview with Mark Doty ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? -by Andrew McFadyen-Ketchum???????????????????????????????????????????????????? ? Andrew McFadyen-Ketchum: There are countess ways in which we measure art.? Obviously, the way we do this depends on all sorts of factors.? But one of the elements that we don?t attribute to poetry very much is memorability.? I?m not sure why that is, but I think that one reason I?m drawn back to ?Demolition? again and again, is this memorability, particularly in images like ?the oldest concrete structure in New England? and ?the ghost of their signs? and ?the metal scoop seems shy, tentative, / a Japanese monster tilting its yellow head.? ? I think that all poets hope their poem is remembered, but we sort of have a love/hate relationship with this ideal.? How important is it to you that we remember "Demolition?" ? Mark Doty:? Memorability is mostly a pre-20th century value in poetry, since traditional patterns of rhythm and rhyme served as mnemonic aids, and having a supply of poems at the ready was a valuable source of entertainment. Free verse is nowhere near as easy to recall, but how important is that to us?? I don't love, say, Bishop's "At the Fishhouses" any less because I don't remember every line of it. I certainly hope that people will remember my poem, recalling the shape it makes, its argument or way of viewing experience, maybe particular figures of speech. The poems I love best are those that become ways of seeing for me, internal reference points or guideposts I go back to, in order to navigate the world. ? AMK: Is there a way, in particular, to create a poem that?s memorable?? Do you think about this while in the drafting/revising process? ? MD: Well, I'm working for musicality in the language, and for accuracy, and to be as clear as I can about complex things. I'd guess that if you attend to those, then memorability will take care of itself. ? AMK: My teacher, Rodney Jones, said in class the other day that ?all of us as writers do things for other people??? To what degree do the various moves in this poem exist due to a concern for your readers, rather than for yourself or for the poem? ? MD: Interesting question. The poem wants to tie together several frames of reference: the building being demolished, the monument to Colonel Shaw that Lowell touches upon in "For the Union Dead," and Lowell's own biography as well as Oscar Wilde's. I guess it would have been possible to write a version of the poem with less narrative "glue," placing these elements side by side in a Pound-like juxtaposition. But I am interested in taking the reader along on the journey, and likewise in tracking the motion of association myself, and thus there are phrases like "All summer I've been reading biographies..." or "A month ago, at St. Gaudens's house..." These gestures of transition felt necessary to me, since I'm putting together relatively disparate elements of cultural history. I can't tell you now which of these associations might have occurred while I was watching that old building hit the ground and which came in the writing process, but it doesn't matter. Unfolding and investigating the connections -- that, to my mind, IS the composing process. ? AMK: For a poem that seems so obviously fixed in the 1st person, I think we can all learn a lot from this poem; the word ?I? only occurring a few times.? From what perspective is this poem written and how do you think this poem works within this perspective so successfully? ? MD: I think of Buckminster Fuller saying "I seem to be a verb." The self's revealed in the action of looking, inquiring, thinking, and looking some more. That's my hope. And of course nothing's duller syntactically than lots of sentences beginning with "I" and then a verb. ? AMK: What are your thoughts on the relationship between a speaker in a poem and the poet his/herself in Contemporary Poetry?? How should we be reading your poetry? ? MD: I think in all my published work, there are maybe four poems that aren't spoken by some version of myself; there's a monologue by a dog, by a heroine of the Paris Commune, by a friend in a hospital watching his sister die, and one by a woman who thinks she's a reincarnation of an ancient Egyptian. And of course all those are versions of me, too! ? But the fact is, what you put on the page is always a version of self, even if you feel you are being strictly allegiant to the truth. You can't get the whole, complex, hard-to-know self on the page. I believe in performing as many aspects of myself, and therefore there are plain spoken poems and more markedly wrought ones. And poems which seem to come with my biography attached and poems wherein "I" is much more of a placeholder, an open space for a reader to step into. ? AMK: ?Fog? is, hands down, one of my favorite poems.? I remember the first time I read it and, talking to a colleague, admitted I didn?t understand what the poem was about.? Later, giving it a closer reading, it became clear what was going on in the poem, and once the basic narrative of the poem was clear to me, I simply fell in love with the sad, searching movement of the lines that take us from the blood tests, to the ouija board, and to the ghosts who yearn to live. ? I think this is an important aspect/problem of poetry?that it sometimes asks a lot of a reader, which can be a delight if he or she goes along with it? ? Now, looking at this poem, I realize I wasn?t a great reader when I first came to ?Fog,? but I?m wondering what you think is reasonable and unreasonable to expect of a reader and how you convince someone to work with a poem that they find ?less than easy? to read. ? MD: It would be a mistake for them all to be immediately transparent, since experience isn't like that. I do my best to be clear, but I understand that some poems may require greater patience on the reader's part, or that there might be a delay in getting at what's taking place. But if I do my job well, then you want to stay with a poem; you grant it a line of credit, as it were, believing that it may resolve before your eyes, as you keep looking, in the way that a challenging painting might. ? AMK: Similarly, do you think ?Fog? is a difficult poem?? And if so, were you aware of this when you wrote it?how did this awareness affect its writing? ? MD: I think it's emotionally difficult. It's sidling up to a feeling of utter and complete devastation, the emptying-out of the speaker's future. Therefore it needs an array of vehicles -- ouija and garden and fog -- to approach the molten core of the matter. I wonder if anyone ever thinks their own poems are difficult? My friend Jean Valentine, who is notorious among readers for a certain degree of opacity, always says that she could not be any more clear. I thought I'd been very clear here, and then I was surprised when a reviewer said that my poem lacked courage because it would not inscribe the word "positive." I've done everything in my power to point to that word, which had newly become terrible, late in the 1980s, and to portray the speaker's horror of it. Do I need to make it more plain than that? ? AMK: Another element of ?Fog? that I think is particularly beautiful is the dualistic nature of its voice, which, at times, speaks from inside the poem and, at others, from outside the poem.? ? When I say inside, I?m thinking of lines like ?The crested iris by the front gate waves / its blue flags three days, exactly? and ? Sitting out on the back porch at twilight, I'm almost convinced.? In this geometry ? of paths and raised beds, the green shadows of delphinium, there's an unseen rustling? ? lines that seem to come from within the experience.? ? By outside, I mean lines like ? Maybe because it contains so much dying, ? ? ? ? ?all these tulip petals thinning ? ? ??????? at the base until any wind takes them. I doubt anyone else would see that, looking in, ? and then I realize my garden has no outside, only is subjectively? ? lines that emit from some other place, a more reflective voice; a voice looking back. ? Do you see the poem in this way?? Is this an element of form that we should read as a reflection of what the poem is about? ? MD: I spoke earlier about perception and inquiry. The lines you point to are an example of that: here's a place in the poem where a scene is evoked, and here's a meditation on that scene. I like this kind of yoking because it feels to me like consciousness.? This is my departure from the old "show don't tell" advice that grows out of Imagism; I like poems that show and then go on to "tell" -- that is, to examine, consider, question, propose.? And in this particular poem, the speaker is desperately trying to get out of the experience, trying to find some way to stand at a remove from an oncoming train, as it were. ? AMK: Thank you so much for your time. ? ? About Mark Doty: A Profile ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? by Mark Wunderlich? A summer visitor to the Cape Cod resort village of Provincetown, Massachusetts, is liable to see just about anything walking down Commercial Street, the town?s main drag and zone of street theater. From muscle boys with shaved chests and nail polish to Portuguese fishermen in waders to a drag queen wearing a G-string, metal helmet, and gold body paint, the possibilities for human identities seem both fluid and vast. P-town is also a site of incredible natural beauty, but a volatile one. Surrounded on three sides by water, the tip of the Cape is pounded by waves and winter storms, its shape shifting as the wind moves the dunes. In the summer, it is a circus, in the winter, desolate. It is this landscape of both natural and human extremity and theatricality that the poet Mark Doty uses as the surface upon which to map an inner life. The author of five collections of poems and a memoir, Mark Doty is one of the most celebrated writers of his generation?the winner of a National Book Critics Circle Award and the first American to earn the T. S. Eliot Prize in Britain. He has also received a Whiting Writer?s Award, fellowships from the Guggenheim Foundation and the NEA, and the Witter Bynner Poetry Prize from the American Academy of Arts & Letters. Born in Maryville, Tennessee, in 1953, Doty spent much of his childhood moving around the country. His father was a civilian member of the Army Corps of Engineers, and the job required one relocation after another. The place where Doty first came in contact with contemporary poetry was Tucson, Arizona, where he went to high school. A drama teacher introduced him to the poet Richard Shelton, who read Doty?s early poems and encouraged him. ?Most importantly,? Doty says, ?he showed me that one could have a life as a poet, that literature, or any art, might be the very center of one?s experience.? No small trick in Tucson, in the suburbs in the sixties. One moment in particular stayed in Doty?s memory. ?I went to Dick Shelton?s house in the desert to help clean out his garage, and his wife, Lois, was at the piano when I walked in, playing Kurt Weill and singing ?Pirate Jenny? from The Threepenny Opera in German. I felt a window had opened onto another world.? During the seventies, while living in Iowa, where he?d attended Drake University, he cowrote and published three chapbooks with his then-wife, the poet Ruth Doty?books to which he no longer feels an allegiance. He now thinks of Turtle, Swan as his first book. Published in 1987 by David R. Godine, Turtle, Swan announced the arrival of a singular and vibrantly new voice in American poetry. These early poems were marked with what have come to be signatures of Doty?s work: an efficient narration of events, an elegant handling of free verse one wants to call ?post-formal,? and a lyric intensity akin to that of Doty?s prominent influence, Hart Crane. The book was not simply a precursor of things to come, but evidence of a voice fully formed. One of the most notable poems in the collection is the extraordinary ?Charlie Howard?s Descent,? which describes the 1984 killing of a homosexual man who was thrown from a bridge by a group of boys in Bangor, Maine: ? Over and over he slipped into the gulf between what he knew and how he was known With these lines, Doty took bold steps toward becoming the first post-Stonewall gay poet to emerge as a major voice in American letters. His predecessors, such as James Merrill, William Meredith, and Richard Howard, had all favored a more privileged tone and vocabulary, elaborate ventriloquism through personae, or occluded references to homosexuality. On the opposite spectrum, Ginsberg used an expansive self-mythologizing strung along an elastic line to address topics that placed him on America?s sexual margins. With Turtle, Swan, Doty effectively merged the political with the aesthetic, uniting a taut line with a lyric voice and an imagination that included notions of activism. Simply by being open about his sexuality, by using it as a subject for his poems without having it be the subject, Doty created a new model for gay and lesbian poets and poetry. For several years, Doty and his partner, Wally Roberts, lived in Montpelier, Vermont. Doty taught creative writing at Goddard College, where he?d received his M.F.A., and he and Wally renovated a one-hundred-ten-year-old house. In 1989, Wally tested positive for HIV. Doty tested negative. In his bestselling memoir about Wally?s illness and decline, Heaven?s Coast (HarperCollins, 1996), Doty writes, ?The virus seemed to me, first, like a kind of solvent which dissolved the future, our future, a little at a time. It was like a dark stain, a floating, inky transparency hovering over Wally?s body, and its intention was to erase the time ahead of us, to make that time, each day, a little smaller.? In 1989 the couple visited Provincetown, renting a house on the beach, and eventually decided to stay. The beautiful seaside environment, and the sizable gay community that could provide support for the couple as they faced Wally?s illness together, made it seem an ideal place to settle. In his second volume of poems, Bethlehem in Broad Daylight (David R. Godine, 1991), Doty began chronicling Provincetown, its light and harbor and glittering surfaces. More than rare beauty distinguished the poems, however. One got the sense that Doty now viewed poetry as an arena of argument?an argument between public and private selves about how to construct an inner life. Most remarkable in this second book is the way in which observation of the physical world is integrated into a deeply personal and intimate narrative. In 1993, Mark Doty?s third volume of poems was selected by Philip Levine for the National Poetry Series and published by the University of Illinois Press. My Alexandria (the title of which makes reference to another primary Doty influence, C. P. Cavafy) was a tour de force, catapulting Doty into the center of attention.The book is perhaps the finest in-depth literary investigation of the AIDS crisis, and at its center is the anticipation of tremendous loss, an ache that pervades each of the poems. Curiosity about the incidental leads to inner investigations of the relationship between sex and illness, desire and inevitable decay. In the long poem ?The Wings,? Doty begins with a description of a boy at an auction, lying on the grass, reading. As the poem progresses, he offers: ? Don?t let anybody tell you death?s the price exacted for the ability to love; couldn?t we live forever without running out of occasions? Both readers and critics responded generously to My Alexandria. The book received numerous awards, including The Los Angeles Times Book Award and the National Book Critics Circle Award. Yet Doty?s success was to be shadowed by loss. In February of 1994, his partner, Wally, died of complications from AIDS. Doty writes, ?In some way I had joined the invisible, too. I think that when people die they make those around them feel something like they felt; that may be the dying?s first legacy to us. . . . Acceptance breeds acceptance, as Wally?s attitude during his illness had shown; it?d been easy, somehow, for the people who took care of him to do so. He seemed, to those who carried him, to have made himself light.? In Atlantis, published in 1995 by HarperCollins, Doty documents with great acuity the colors and textures of Provincetown. The book describes storm after storm. Ruined boats are both ravishing and haunted. Each tempest leaves behind something beautiful, but tinged with sorrow. It is a book about a storm, and the storm?s quiet aftermath; something has been lost, but something else is left behind, worthy of description and contemplation. Punctuating the volume are occasional spikes of rage, as in the poem ?Homo Will Not Inherit,? in which the poet confronts a flier stating, ?Homo will not inherit. Repent and be saved.? ? . . . I have for hours believed?without judgment, without condemnation? that in each body, however obscured or recast, is the divine body?common, habitable? the way in a field of sunflowers you can see every bloom?s the multiple expression of a single shining idea, which is the face hammered into joy. This is Doty at the height of his powers, the poem driven into the world by force of the poet?s will, the engine hurtling it along his ecstatic imagistic capabilities. He turns biblical language on its ear, reclaiming its strength and lyricism, while exposing its misuse as an instrument of hate. The book?s primary subject remains grief and its survival?loss as it scours the psyche to the bone. With Sweet Machine (HarperCollins, 1998), Doty?s most recent book, we see a poet emerging with a more public voice, a formidable and lyrical style of argumentation. ?I?m wanting my own poems to turn more towards the social, to the common conditions of American life in our particular uncertain moment,? Doty says. ?I am, I guess, groping towards those poems; I?m trying to talk about public life without resorting to public language.? ?Mercy on Broadway? from Sweet Machine acts as a bridge, linking Doty?s previous work with his new artistic ambitions. The poet takes on the tumult and rapture of Manhattan, describing a scene on lower Broadway, where a woman is trying to sell a bowl full of turtles from a place on the sidewalk: ? . . . I?m forty-one years old and ready to get down on my knees to a kitchen bowl full of live green. I?m breathing here, a new man next to me who?s beginning to matter. The poem becomes a meditation on finding the will to start over, but it also functions as a love song for the noise and chaos of street life as it shuffles itself into and out of meaning. In this masterful poem, Doty combines the vast and the very small, what?s impersonal and what is deeply felt. Mark Doty makes his living as a teacher of creative writing, and in recent years he has taught at the Iowa Writers? Workshop, Columbia University School of the Arts, and the creative writing program at the University of Utah. He currently teaches one semester a year at the University of Houston, and he and his partner, the novelist Paul Lisicky, split their time between Houston and Provincetown. Doty recently finished a second memoir entitled Firebird, which will be published by HarperCollins next year. ?Firebird is an autobiography from six to sixteen, with a particular eye towards matters of aesthetic education: How do we learn to identify what we find beautiful, and what are the uses to which beauty is put? It?s a sissy boy?s story, and thus an exile?s tale, and a chronicle of a gradual process of coming to belong somewhere, to the world of art.? He goes on to add, ?I hope the book is not so much about me as it is an examination of a whole constellation of experiences and ideas?personal and collective?about art, sexuality, identity, gender, and the survival of the inner life.? On summer afternoons in Provincetown, students from the Cape Cod School of Art are seen throughout the town, painting landscapes of various local scenes. Very often, groups of them set up easels in the street in front of Mark Doty and Paul Lisicky?s two-century-old house. With its rose arbor, white clapboards, and vibrant, overblown flower beds, it?s the perfect New England subject. With each stroke, the painters try to get at something Doty noted in his poem ?Fog???some secret amplitude . . . in this orderly space??which exemplifies what Doty has been able to reveal, with grace and mastery, in his work and life. Mark Wunderlich is the author of the poetry collection The Anchorage, which will be published this spring by the University of Massachusetts Press. He is currently a Wallace Stegner Fellow at Stanford University and the managing director of the Napa Valley Writers? Conference. ????????????-from?Ploughshares, Spring 1999 ? ? About Mark Doty: A Profile ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? by Mark Wunderlich? A summer visitor to the Cape Cod resort village of Provincetown, Massachusetts, is liable to see just about anything walking down Commercial Street, the town?s main drag and zone of street theater. From muscle boys with shaved chests and nail polish to Portuguese fishermen in waders to a drag queen wearing a G-string, metal helmet, and gold body paint, the possibilities for human identities seem both fluid and vast. P-town is also a site of incredible natural beauty, but a volatile one. Surrounded on three sides by water, the tip of the Cape is pounded by waves and winter storms, its shape shifting as the wind moves the dunes. In the summer, it is a circus, in the winter, desolate. It is this landscape of both natural and human extremity and theatricality that the poet Mark Doty uses as the surface upon which to map an inner life. The author of five collections of poems and a memoir, Mark Doty is one of the most celebrated writers of his generation?the winner of a National Book Critics Circle Award and the first American to earn the T. S. Eliot Prize in Britain. He has also received a Whiting Writer?s Award, fellowships from the Guggenheim Foundation and the NEA, and the Witter Bynner Poetry Prize from the American Academy of Arts & Letters. Born in Maryville, Tennessee, in 1953, Doty spent much of his childhood moving around the country. His father was a civilian member of the Army Corps of Engineers, and the job required one relocation after another. The place where Doty first came in contact with contemporary poetry was Tucson, Arizona, where he went to high school. A drama teacher introduced him to the poet Richard Shelton, who read Doty?s early poems and encouraged him. ?Most importantly,? Doty says, ?he showed me that one could have a life as a poet, that literature, or any art, might be the very center of one?s experience.? No small trick in Tucson, in the suburbs in the sixties. One moment in particular stayed in Doty?s memory. ?I went to Dick Shelton?s house in the desert to help clean out his garage, and his wife, Lois, was at the piano when I walked in, playing Kurt Weill and singing ?Pirate Jenny? from The Threepenny Opera in German. I felt a window had opened onto another world.? During the seventies, while living in Iowa, where he?d attended Drake University, he cowrote and published three chapbooks with his then-wife, the poet Ruth Doty?books to which he no longer feels an allegiance. He now thinks of Turtle, Swan as his first book. Published in 1987 by David R. Godine, Turtle, Swan announced the arrival of a singular and vibrantly new voice in American poetry. These early poems were marked with what have come to be signatures of Doty?s work: an efficient narration of events, an elegant handling of free verse one wants to call ?post-formal,? and a lyric intensity akin to that of Doty?s prominent influence, Hart Crane. The book was not simply a precursor of things to come, but evidence of a voice fully formed. One of the most notable poems in the collection is the extraordinary ?Charlie Howard?s Descent,? which describes the 1984 killing of a homosexual man who was thrown from a bridge by a group of boys in Bangor, Maine: ? Over and over he slipped into the gulf between what he knew and how he was known With these lines, Doty took bold steps toward becoming the first post-Stonewall gay poet to emerge as a major voice in American letters. His predecessors, such as James Merrill, William Meredith, and Richard Howard, had all favored a more privileged tone and vocabulary, elaborate ventriloquism through personae, or occluded references to homosexuality. On the opposite spectrum, Ginsberg used an expansive self-mythologizing strung along an elastic line to address topics that placed him on America?s sexual margins. With Turtle, Swan, Doty effectively merged the political with the aesthetic, uniting a taut line with a lyric voice and an imagination that included notions of activism. Simply by being open about his sexuality, by using it as a subject for his poems without having it be the subject, Doty created a new model for gay and lesbian poets and poetry. For several years, Doty and his partner, Wally Roberts, lived in Montpelier, Vermont. Doty taught creative writing at Goddard College, where he?d received his M.F.A., and he and Wally renovated a one-hundred-ten-year-old house. In 1989, Wally tested positive for HIV. Doty tested negative. In his bestselling memoir about Wally?s illness and decline, Heaven?s Coast (HarperCollins, 1996), Doty writes, ?The virus seemed to me, first, like a kind of solvent which dissolved the future, our future, a little at a time. It was like a dark stain, a floating, inky transparency hovering over Wally?s body, and its intention was to erase the time ahead of us, to make that time, each day, a little smaller.? In 1989 the couple visited Provincetown, renting a house on the beach, and eventually decided to stay. The beautiful seaside environment, and the sizable gay community that could provide support for the couple as they faced Wally?s illness together, made it seem an ideal place to settle. In his second volume of poems, Bethlehem in Broad Daylight (David R. Godine, 1991), Doty began chronicling Provincetown, its light and harbor and glittering surfaces. More than rare beauty distinguished the poems, however. One got the sense that Doty now viewed poetry as an arena of argument?an argument between public and private selves about how to construct an inner life. Most remarkable in this second book is the way in which observation of the physical world is integrated into a deeply personal and intimate narrative. In 1993, Mark Doty?s third volume of poems was selected by Philip Levine for the National Poetry Series and published by the University of Illinois Press. My Alexandria (the title of which makes reference to another primary Doty influence, C. P. Cavafy) was a tour de force, catapulting Doty into the center of attention.The book is perhaps the finest in-depth literary investigation of the AIDS crisis, and at its center is the anticipation of tremendous loss, an ache that pervades each of the poems. Curiosity about the incidental leads to inner investigations of the relationship between sex and illness, desire and inevitable decay. In the long poem ?The Wings,? Doty begins with a description of a boy at an auction, lying on the grass, reading. As the poem progresses, he offers: ? Don?t let anybody tell you death?s the price exacted for the ability to love; couldn?t we live forever without running out of occasions? Both readers and critics responded generously to My Alexandria. The book received numerous awards, including The Los Angeles Times Book Award and the National Book Critics Circle Award. Yet Doty?s success was to be shadowed by loss. In February of 1994, his partner, Wally, died of complications from AIDS. Doty writes, ?In some way I had joined the invisible, too. I think that when people die they make those around them feel something like they felt; that may be the dying?s first legacy to us. . . . Acceptance breeds acceptance, as Wally?s attitude during his illness had shown; it?d been easy, somehow, for the people who took care of him to do so. He seemed, to those who carried him, to have made himself light.? In Atlantis, published in 1995 by HarperCollins, Doty documents with great acuity the colors and textures of Provincetown. The book describes storm after storm. Ruined boats are both ravishing and haunted. Each tempest leaves behind something beautiful, but tinged with sorrow. It is a book about a storm, and the storm?s quiet aftermath; something has been lost, but something else is left behind, worthy of description and contemplation. Punctuating the volume are occasional spikes of rage, as in the poem ?Homo Will Not Inherit,? in which the poet confronts a flier stating, ?Homo will not inherit. Repent and be saved.? ? . . . I have for hours believed?without judgment, without condemnation? that in each body, however obscured or recast, is the divine body?common, habitable? the way in a field of sunflowers you can see every bloom?s the multiple expression of a single shining idea, which is the face hammered into joy. This is Doty at the height of his powers, the poem driven into the world by force of the poet?s will, the engine hurtling it along his ecstatic imagistic capabilities. He turns biblical language on its ear, reclaiming its strength and lyricism, while exposing its misuse as an instrument of hate. The book?s primary subject remains grief and its survival?loss as it scours the psyche to the bone. With Sweet Machine (HarperCollins, 1998), Doty?s most recent book, we see a poet emerging with a more public voice, a formidable and lyrical style of argumentation. ?I?m wanting my own poems to turn more towards the social, to the common conditions of American life in our particular uncertain moment,? Doty says. ?I am, I guess, groping towards those poems; I?m trying to talk about public life without resorting to public language.? ?Mercy on Broadway? from Sweet Machine acts as a bridge, linking Doty?s previous work with his new artistic ambitions. The poet takes on the tumult and rapture of Manhattan, describing a scene on lower Broadway, where a woman is trying to sell a bowl full of turtles from a place on the sidewalk: ? . . . I?m forty-one years old and ready to get down on my knees to a kitchen bowl full of live green. I?m breathing here, a new man next to me who?s beginning to matter. The poem becomes a meditation on finding the will to start over, but it also functions as a love song for the noise and chaos of street life as it shuffles itself into and out of meaning. In this masterful poem, Doty combines the vast and the very small, what?s impersonal and what is deeply felt. Mark Doty makes his living as a teacher of creative writing, and in recent years he has taught at the Iowa Writers? Workshop, Columbia University School of the Arts, and the creative writing program at the University of Utah. He currently teaches one semester a year at the University of Houston, and he and his partner, the novelist Paul Lisicky, split their time between Houston and Provincetown. Doty recently finished a second memoir entitled Firebird, which will be published by HarperCollins next year. ?Firebird is an autobiography from six to sixteen, with a particular eye towards matters of aesthetic education: How do we learn to identify what we find beautiful, and what are the uses to which beauty is put? It?s a sissy boy?s story, and thus an exile?s tale, and a chronicle of a gradual process of coming to belong somewhere, to the world of art.? He goes on to add, ?I hope the book is not so much about me as it is an examination of a whole constellation of experiences and ideas?personal and collective?about art, sexuality, identity, gender, and the survival of the inner life.? On summer afternoons in Provincetown, students from the Cape Cod School of Art are seen throughout the town, painting landscapes of various local scenes. Very often, groups of them set up easels in the street in front of Mark Doty and Paul Lisicky?s two-century-old house. With its rose arbor, white clapboards, and vibrant, overblown flower beds, it?s the perfect New England subject. With each stroke, the painters try to get at something Doty noted in his poem ?Fog???some secret amplitude . . . in this orderly space??which exemplifies what Doty has been able to reveal, with grace and mastery, in his work and life. Mark Wunderlich is the author of the poetry collection The Anchorage, which will be published this spring by the University of Massachusetts Press. He is currently a Wallace Stegner Fellow at Stanford University and the managing director of the Napa Valley Writers? Conference. ????????????-from?Ploughshares, Spring 1999 ? Demolition? ? ? ? The intact facade's now almost black in the rain; all day they've torn at the back of the building, "the oldest concrete structure in New England," the newspaper said. By afternoon, when the backhoe claw appears above three stories of columns and cornices, the crowd beneath their massed umbrellas cheer. Suddenly the stairs seem to climb down themselves, atomized plaster billowing: dust of 1907's rooming house, this year's bake shop and florist's, the ghosts of their signs faint above the windows lined, last week, with loaves and blooms. We love disasters that have nothing to do with us: the metal scoop seems shy, tentative, a Japanese monster tilting its yellow head and considering what to topple next. It's a weekday, and those of us with the leisure to watch are out of work, unemployable or academics, joined by a thirst for watching something fall. All summer, at loose ends, I've read biographies, Wilde and Robert Lowell, and fallen asleep over a fallen hero lurching down a Paris boulevard, talking his way to dinner or a drink, unable to forget the vain and stupid boy he allowed to ruin him. And I dreamed I was Lowell, in a manic flight of failing and ruthless energy, and understood how wrong I was with a passionate exactitude which had to be like his. A month ago, at Saint-Gauden's house, we ran from a startling downpour into coincidence: under a loggia built for performances on the lawn hulked Shaw's monument, splendid in its plaster maquette, the ramrod-straight colonel high above his black troops. We crouched on wet gravel and waited out the squall; the hieratic woman -- a wingless angel? -- floating horizontally above the soldiers, her robe billowing like plaster dust, seemed so far above us, another century's allegorical decor, an afterthought who'd never descend to the purely physical soldiers, the nearly breathing bronze ranks crushed into a terrible compression of perspective, as if the world hurried them into the ditch. "The unreadable," Wilde said, "is what occurs." And when the brutish metal rears above the wall of unglazed windows -- where, in a week, the kids will skateboard in their lovely loops and spray their indecipherable ideograms across the parking lot -- the single standing wall seems Roman, momentarily, an aqueduct, all that's left of something difficult to understand now, something Oscar and Bosie might have posed before, for a photograph. Aqueducts and angels, here on Main, seem merely souvenirs; the gaps where the windows opened once into transients' rooms are pure sky. It's strange how much more beautiful the sky is to us when it's framed by these columned openings someone meant us to take for stone. The enormous, articulate shovel nudges the highest row of moldings and the whole thing wavers as though we'd dreamed it, our black classic, and it topples all at once.? ? ? Fog ? ? ? The crested iris by the front gate waves its blue flags three days, exactly, then they vanish. The peony buds' tight wrappings are edged crimson; when they open, a little blood-color will ruffle at the heart of the flounced, unbelievable white. Three weeks after the test, the vial filled from the crook of my elbow, I'm seeing blood everywhere: a casual nick from the garden shears, a shaving cut and I feel the physical rush of the welling up, the wine-fountain dark as Siberian iris. The thin green porcelain teacup, our homemade Ouija's planchette, rocks and wobbles every night, spins and spells. It seems a cloud of spirits numerous as lilac panicles vie for occupancy -- children grabbing for the telephone, happy to talk to someone who isn't dead yet? Everyone wants to speak at once, or at least these random words appear, incongruous and exactly spelled: energy, immunity, kiss. Then: M. has immunity. W. has. And that was all. One character, Frank, distinguishes himself: a boy who lived in our house in the thirties, loved dogs and gangster movies, longs for a body, says he can watch us through the television, asks us to stand before the screen and kiss. God in garden, he says. Sitting out on the back porch at twilight, I'm almost convinced. In this geometry of paths and raised beds, the green shadows of delphinium, there's an unseen rustling: some secret amplitude seems to open in this orderly space. Maybe because it contains so much dying, all these tulip petals thinning at the base until any wind takes them. I doubt anyone else would see that, looking in, and then I realize my garden has no outside, only is subjectively. As blood is utterly without an outside, can't be seen except out of context, the wrong color in alien air, no longer itself. Though it submits to test, two, to be exact, each done three times, though not for me, since at their first entry into my disembodied blood there was nothing at home there. For you they entered the blood garden over and over, like knocking at a door because you know someone's home. Three times the Elisa Test, three the Western Blot, and then the incoherent message. We're the public health care worker's nine o'clock appointment, she is a phantom hand who forms the letters of your name, and the word that begins with P. I'd lie out and wait for the god if it weren't so cold, the blue moon huge and disruptive above the flowering crab's foaming collapse. The spirits say Fog when they can't speak clearly and the letters collide; sometimes for them there's nothing outside the mist of their dying. Planchette, peony, I would think of anything not to say the word. Maybe the blood in the flower is a god's. Kiss me, in front of the screen, please, the dead are watching. They haven't had enough yet. Every new bloom is falling apart. I would say anything else in the world, any other word. then they vanish. The peony buds' tight wrappings are edged crimson; when they open, a little blood-color will ruffle at the heart of the flounced, unbelievable white. Three weeks after the test, the vial filled from the crook of my elbow, I'm seeing blood everywhere: a casual nick from the garden shears, a shaving cut and I feel the physical rush of the welling up, the wine-fountain dark as Siberian iris. The thin green porcelain teacup, our homemade Ouija's planchette, rocks and wobbles every night, spins and spells. It seems a cloud of spirits numerous as lilac panicles vie for occupancy -- children grabbing for the telephone, happy to talk to someone who isn't dead yet? Everyone wants to speak at once, or at least these random words appear, incongruous and exactly spelled: energy, immunity, kiss. Then: M. has immunity. W. has. And that was all. One character, Frank, distinguishes himself: a boy who lived in our house in the thirties, loved dogs and gangster movies, longs for a body, says he can watch us through the television, asks us to stand before the screen and kiss. God in garden, he says. Sitting out on the back porch at twilight, I'm almost convinced. In this geometry of paths and raised beds, the green shadows of delphinium, there's an unseen rustling: some secret amplitude seems to open in this orderly space. Maybe because it contains so much dying, all these tulip petals thinning at the base until any wind takes them. I doubt anyone else would see that, looking in, and then I realize my garden has no outside, only is subjectively. As blood is utterly without an outside, can't be seen except out of context, the wrong color in alien air, no longer itself. Though it submits to test, two, to be exact, each done three times, though not for me, since at their first entry into my disembodied blood there was nothing at home there. For you they entered the blood garden over and over, like knocking at a door because you know someone's home. Three times the Elisa Test, three the Western Blot, and then the incoherent message. We're the public health care worker's nine o'clock appointment, she is a phantom hand who forms the letters of your name, and the word that begins with P. I'd lie out and wait for the god if it weren't so cold, the blue moon huge and disruptive above the flowering crab's foaming collapse. The spirits say Fog when they can't speak clearly and the letters collide; sometimes for them there's nothing outside the mist of their dying. Planchette, peony, I would think of anything not to say the word. Maybe the blood in the flower is a god's. Kiss me, in front of the screen, please, the dead are watching. They haven't had enough yet. Every new bloom is falling apart. I would say anything else in the world, any other word. ????????? -from My Alexandria, 1993 ? ? ? ? Demolition? ? ? ? The intact facade's now almost black in the rain; all day they've torn at the back of the building, "the oldest concrete structure in New England," the newspaper said. By afternoon, when the backhoe claw appears above three stories of columns and cornices, the crowd beneath their massed umbrellas cheer. Suddenly the stairs seem to climb down themselves, atomized plaster billowing: dust of 1907's rooming house, this year's bake shop and florist's, the ghosts of their signs faint above the windows lined, last week, with loaves and blooms. We love disasters that have nothing to do with us: the metal scoop seems shy, tentative, a Japanese monster tilting its yellow head and considering what to topple next. It's a weekday, and those of us with the leisure to watch are out of work, unemployable or academics, joined by a thirst for watching something fall. All summer, at loose ends, I've read biographies, Wilde and Robert Lowell, and fallen asleep over a fallen hero lurching down a Paris boulevard, talking his way to dinner or a drink, unable to forget the vain and stupid boy he allowed to ruin him. And I dreamed I was Lowell, in a manic flight of failing and ruthless energy, and understood how wrong I was with a passionate exactitude which had to be like his. A month ago, at Saint-Gauden's house, we ran from a startling downpour into coincidence: under a loggia built for performances on the lawn hulked Shaw's monument, splendid in its plaster maquette, the ramrod-straight colonel high above his black troops. We crouched on wet gravel and waited out the squall; the hieratic woman -- a wingless angel? -- floating horizontally above the soldiers, her robe billowing like plaster dust, seemed so far above us, another century's allegorical decor, an afterthought who'd never descend to the purely physical soldiers, the nearly breathing bronze ranks crushed into a terrible compression of perspective, as if the world hurried them into the ditch. "The unreadable," Wilde said, "is what occurs." And when the brutish metal rears above the wall of unglazed windows -- where, in a week, the kids will skateboard in their lovely loops and spray their indecipherable ideograms across the parking lot -- the single standing wall seems Roman, momentarily, an aqueduct, all that's left of something difficult to understand now, something Oscar and Bosie might have posed before, for a photograph. Aqueducts and angels, here on Main, seem merely souvenirs; the gaps where the windows opened once into transients' rooms are pure sky. It's strange how much more beautiful the sky is to us when it's framed by these columned openings someone meant us to take for stone. The enormous, articulate shovel nudges the highest row of moldings and the whole thing wavers as though we'd dreamed it, our black classic, and it topples all at once.? ? ? Fog ? ? ? The crested iris by the front gate waves its blue flags three days, exactly, then they vanish. The peony buds' tight wrappings are edged crimson; when they open, a little blood-color will ruffle at the heart of the flounced, unbelievable white. Three weeks after the test, the vial filled from the crook of my elbow, I'm seeing blood everywhere: a casual nick from the garden shears, a shaving cut and I feel the physical rush of the welling up, the wine-fountain dark as Siberian iris. The thin green porcelain teacup, our homemade Ouija's planchette, rocks and wobbles every night, spins and spells. It seems a cloud of spirits numerous as lilac panicles vie for occupancy -- children grabbing for the telephone, happy to talk to someone who isn't dead yet? Everyone wants to speak at once, or at least these random words appear, incongruous and exactly spelled: energy, immunity, kiss. Then: M. has immunity. W. has. And that was all. One character, Frank, distinguishes himself: a boy who lived in our house in the thirties, loved dogs and gangster movies, longs for a body, says he can watch us through the television, asks us to stand before the screen and kiss. God in garden, he says. Sitting out on the back porch at twilight, I'm almost convinced. In this geometry of paths and raised beds, the green shadows of delphinium, there's an unseen rustling: some secret amplitude seems to open in this orderly space. Maybe because it contains so much dying, all these tulip petals thinning at the base until any wind takes them. I doubt anyone else would see that, looking in, and then I realize my garden has no outside, only is subjectively. As blood is utterly without an outside, can't be seen except out of context, the wrong color in alien air, no longer itself. Though it submits to test, two, to be exact, each done three times, though not for me, since at their first entry into my disembodied blood there was nothing at home there. For you they entered the blood garden over and over, like knocking at a door because you know someone's home. Three times the Elisa Test, three the Western Blot, and then the incoherent message. We're the public health care worker's nine o'clock appointment, she is a phantom hand who forms the letters of your name, and the word that begins with P. I'd lie out and wait for the god if it weren't so cold, the blue moon huge and disruptive above the flowering crab's foaming collapse. The spirits say Fog when they can't speak clearly and the letters collide; sometimes for them there's nothing outside the mist of their dying. Planchette, peony, I would think of anything not to say the word. Maybe the blood in the flower is a god's. Kiss me, in front of the screen, please, the dead are watching. They haven't had enough yet. Every new bloom is falling apart. I would say anything else in the world, any other word. then they vanish. The peony buds' tight wrappings are edged crimson; when they open, a little blood-color will ruffle at the heart of the flounced, unbelievable white. Three weeks after the test, the vial filled from the crook of my elbow, I'm seeing blood everywhere: a casual nick from the garden shears, a shaving cut and I feel the physical rush of the welling up, the wine-fountain dark as Siberian iris. The thin green porcelain teacup, our homemade Ouija's planchette, rocks and wobbles every night, spins and spells. It seems a cloud of spirits numerous as lilac panicles vie for occupancy -- children grabbing for the telephone, happy to talk to someone who isn't dead yet? Everyone wants to speak at once, or at least these random words appear, incongruous and exactly spelled: energy, immunity, kiss. Then: M. has immunity. W. has. And that was all. One character, Frank, distinguishes himself: a boy who lived in our house in the thirties, loved dogs and gangster movies, longs for a body, says he can watch us through the television, asks us to stand before the screen and kiss. God in garden, he says. Sitting out on the back porch at twilight, I'm almost convinced. In this geometry of paths and raised beds, the green shadows of delphinium, there's an unseen rustling: some secret amplitude seems to open in this orderly space. Maybe because it contains so much dying, all these tulip petals thinning at the base until any wind takes them. I doubt anyone else would see that, looking in, and then I realize my garden has no outside, only is subjectively. As blood is utterly without an outside, can't be seen except out of context, the wrong color in alien air, no longer itself. Though it submits to test, two, to be exact, each done three times, though not for me, since at their first entry into my disembodied blood there was nothing at home there. For you they entered the blood garden over and over, like knocking at a door because you know someone's home. Three times the Elisa Test, three the Western Blot, and then the incoherent message. We're the public health care worker's nine o'clock appointment, she is a phantom hand who forms the letters of your name, and the word that begins with P. I'd lie out and wait for the god if it weren't so cold, the blue moon huge and disruptive above the flowering crab's foaming collapse. The spirits say Fog when they can't speak clearly and the letters collide; sometimes for them there's nothing outside the mist of their dying. Planchette, peony, I would think of anything not to say the word. Maybe the blood in the flower is a god's. Kiss me, in front of the screen, please, the dead are watching. They haven't had enough yet. Every new bloom is falling apart. I would say anything else in the world, any other word. ????????? -from My Alexandria, 1993 ? ? ? Mark Doty is the author of seven books of poems, among them School of the Arts, Source, Sweet Machine, Atlantis, and My Alexandria. He has also published three volumes of nonfiction prose:? Still Life with Oysters and Lemon, Heaven's Coast and Firebird. ? Doty?s poems have appeared in many magazines including The Atlantic Monthly, The London Review of Books, Ploughshares, Poetry, and?The New Yorker.? Widely?anthologized, his poems appear in?The Norton Anthology of Contemporary American Poetry?and many other collections.? ? Doty has received the National Book Critics Circle Award, the Los Angeles Times Book Prize, a Whiting Writers Award, two Lambda Literary Awards? and the PEN/Martha Albrand Award for First Nonfiction.?He is the only American poet to have received the T.S. Eliot Prize in the U.K., and has received?fellowships from the Guggenheim, Ingram Merrill and Lila Wallace/Readers Digest Foundations, and from the National Endowment for the Arts. ? Doty lives in New York City and in Houston, Texas, where he is the John and Rebecca Moores Professor in the graduate program?at the University of Houston. ? ? Ouija and Garden and Fog, an Interview with Mark Doty ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? -by Andrew McFadyen-Ketchum???????????????????????????????????????????????????? ? Andrew McFadyen-Ketchum: There are countess ways in which we measure art.? Obviously, the way we do this depends on all sorts of factors.? But one of the elements that we don?t attribute to poetry very much is memorability.? I?m not sure why that is, but I think that one reason I?m drawn back to ?Demolition? again and again, is this memorability, particularly in images like ?the oldest concrete structure in New England? and ?the ghost of their signs? and ?the metal scoop seems shy, tentative, / a Japanese monster tilting its yellow head.? ? I think that all poets hope their poem is remembered, but we sort of have a love/hate relationship with this ideal.? How important is it to you that we remember "Demolition?" ? Mark Doty:? Memorability is mostly a pre-20th century value in poetry, since traditional patterns of rhythm and rhyme served as mnemonic aids, and having a supply of poems at the ready was a valuable source of entertainment. Free verse is nowhere near as easy to recall, but how important is that to us?? I don't love, say, Bishop's "At the Fishhouses" any less because I don't remember every line of it. I certainly hope that people will remember my poem, recalling the shape it makes, its argument or way of viewing experience, maybe particular figures of speech. The poems I love best are those that become ways of seeing for me, internal reference points or guideposts I go back to, in order to navigate the world. ? AMK: Is there a way, in particular, to create a poem that?s memorable?? Do you think about this while in the drafting/revising process? ? MD: Well, I'm working for musicality in the language, and for accuracy, and to be as clear as I can about complex things. I'd guess that if you attend to those, then memorability will take care of itself. ? AMK: My teacher, Rodney Jones, said in class the other day that ?all of us as writers do things for other people??? To what degree do the various moves in this poem exist due to a concern for your readers, rather than for yourself or for the poem? ? MD: Interesting question. The poem wants to tie together several frames of reference: the building being demolished, the monument to Colonel Shaw that Lowell touches upon in "For the Union Dead," and Lowell's own biography as well as Oscar Wilde's. I guess it would have been possible to write a version of the poem with less narrative "glue," placing these elements side by side in a Pound-like juxtaposition. But I am interested in taking the reader along on the journey, and likewise in tracking the motion of association myself, and thus there are phrases like "All summer I've been reading biographies..." or "A month ago, at St. Gaudens's house..." These gestures of transition felt necessary to me, since I'm putting together relatively disparate elements of cultural history. I can't tell you now which of these associations might have occurred while I was watching that old building hit the ground and which came in the writing process, but it doesn't matter. Unfolding and investigating the connections -- that, to my mind, IS the composing process. ? AMK: For a poem that seems so obviously fixed in the 1st person, I think we can all learn a lot from this poem; the word ?I? only occurring a few times.? From what perspective is this poem written and how do you think this poem works within this perspective so successfully? ? MD: I think of Buckminster Fuller saying "I seem to be a verb." The self's revealed in the action of looking, inquiring, thinking, and looking some more. That's my hope. And of course nothing's duller syntactically than lots of sentences beginning with "I" and then a verb. ? AMK: What are your thoughts on the relationship between a speaker in a poem and the poet his/herself in Contemporary Poetry?? How should we be reading your poetry? ? MD: I think in all my published work, there are maybe four poems that aren't spoken by some version of myself; there's a monologue by a dog, by a heroine of the Paris Commune, by a friend in a hospital watching his sister die, and one by a woman who thinks she's a reincarnation of an ancient Egyptian. And of course all those are versions of me, too! ? But the fact is, what you put on the page is always a version of self, even if you feel you are being strictly allegiant to the truth. You can't get the whole, complex, hard-to-know self on the page. I believe in performing as many aspects of myself, and therefore there are plain spoken poems and more markedly wrought ones. And poems which seem to come with my biography attached and poems wherein "I" is much more of a placeholder, an open space for a reader to step into. ? AMK: ?Fog? is, hands down, one of my favorite poems.? I remember the first time I read it and, talking to a colleague, admitted I didn?t understand what the poem was about.? Later, giving it a closer reading, it became clear what was going on in the poem, and once the basic narrative of the poem was clear to me, I simply fell in love with the sad, searching movement of the lines that take us from the blood tests, to the ouija board, and to the ghosts who yearn to live. ? I think this is an important aspect/problem of poetry?that it sometimes asks a lot of a reader, which can be a delight if he or she goes along with it? ? Now, looking at this poem, I realize I wasn?t a great reader when I first came to ?Fog,? but I?m wondering what you think is reasonable and unreasonable to expect of a reader and how you convince someone to work with a poem that they find ?less than easy? to read. ? MD: It would be a mistake for them all to be immediately transparent, since experience isn't like that. I do my best to be clear, but I understand that some poems may require greater patience on the reader's part, or that there might be a delay in getting at what's taking place. But if I do my job well, then you want to stay with a poem; you grant it a line of credit, as it were, believing that it may resolve before your eyes, as you keep looking, in the way that a challenging painting might. ? AMK: Similarly, do you think ?Fog? is a difficult poem?? And if so, were you aware of this when you wrote it?how did this awareness affect its writing? ? MD: I think it's emotionally difficult. It's sidling up to a feeling of utter and complete devastation, the emptying-out of the speaker's future. Therefore it needs an array of vehicles -- ouija and garden and fog -- to approach the molten core of the matter. I wonder if anyone ever thinks their own poems are difficult? My friend Jean Valentine, who is notorious among readers for a certain degree of opacity, always says that she could not be any more clear. I thought I'd been very clear here, and then I was surprised when a reviewer said that my poem lacked courage because it would not inscribe the word "positive." I've done everything in my power to point to that word, which had newly become terrible, late in the 1980s, and to portray the speaker's horror of it. Do I need to make it more plain than that? ? AMK: Another element of ?Fog? that I think is particularly beautiful is the dualistic nature of its voice, which, at times, speaks from inside the poem and, at others, from outside the poem.? ? When I say inside, I?m thinking of lines like ?The crested iris by the front gate waves / its blue flags three days, exactly? and ? Sitting out on the back porch at twilight, I'm almost convinced.? In this geometry ? of paths and raised beds, the green shadows of delphinium, there's an unseen rustling? ? lines that seem to come from within the experience.? ? By outside, I mean lines like ? Maybe because it contains so much dying, ? ? ? ? ?all these tulip petals thinning ? ? ??????? at the base until any wind takes them. I doubt anyone else would see that, looking in, ? and then I realize my garden has no outside, only is subjectively? ? lines that emit from some other place, a more reflective voice; a voice looking back. ? Do you see the poem in this way?? Is this an element of form that we should read as a reflection of what the poem is about? ? MD: I spoke earlier about perception and inquiry. The lines you point to are an example of that: here's a place in the poem where a scene is evoked, and here's a meditation on that scene. I like this kind of yoking because it feels to me like consciousness.? This is my departure from the old "show don't tell" advice that grows out of Imagism; I like poems that show and then go on to "tell" -- that is, to examine, consider, question, propose.? And in this particular poem, the speaker is desperately trying to get out of the experience, trying to find some way to stand at a remove from an oncoming train, as it were. ? AMK: Thank you so much for your time. ? ? About Mark Doty: A Profile ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? by Mark Wunderlich? A summer visitor to the Cape Cod resort village of Provincetown, Massachusetts, is liable to see just about anything walking down Commercial Street, the town?s main drag and zone of street theater. From muscle boys with shaved chests and nail polish to Portuguese fishermen in waders to a drag queen wearing a G-string, metal helmet, and gold body paint, the possibilities for human identities seem both fluid and vast. P-town is also a site of incredible natural beauty, but a volatile one. Surrounded on three sides by water, the tip of the Cape is pounded by waves and winter storms, its shape shifting as the wind moves the dunes. In the summer, it is a circus, in the winter, desolate. It is this landscape of both natural and human extremity and theatricality that the poet Mark Doty uses as the surface upon which to map an inner life. The author of five collections of poems and a memoir, Mark Doty is one of the most celebrated writers of his generation?the winner of a National Book Critics Circle Award and the first American to earn the T. S. Eliot Prize in Britain. He has also received a Whiting Writer?s Award, fellowships from the Guggenheim Foundation and the NEA, and the Witter Bynner Poetry Prize from the American Academy of Arts & Letters. Born in Maryville, Tennessee, in 1953, Doty spent much of his childhood moving around the country. His father was a civilian member of the Army Corps of Engineers, and the job required one relocation after another. The place where Doty first came in contact with contemporary poetry was Tucson, Arizona, where he went to high school. A drama teacher introduced him to the poet Richard Shelton, who read Doty?s early poems and encouraged him. ?Most importantly,? Doty says, ?he showed me that one could have a life as a poet, that literature, or any art, might be the very center of one?s experience.? No small trick in Tucson, in the suburbs in the sixties. One moment in particular stayed in Doty?s memory. ?I went to Dick Shelton?s house in the desert to help clean out his garage, and his wife, Lois, was at the piano when I walked in, playing Kurt Weill and singing ?Pirate Jenny? from The Threepenny Opera in German. I felt a window had opened onto another world.? During the seventies, while living in Iowa, where he?d attended Drake University, he cowrote and published three chapbooks with his then-wife, the poet Ruth Doty?books to which he no longer feels an allegiance. He now thinks of Turtle, Swan as his first book. Published in 1987 by David R. Godine, Turtle, Swan announced the arrival of a singular and vibrantly new voice in American poetry. These early poems were marked with what have come to be signatures of Doty?s work: an efficient narration of events, an elegant handling of free verse one wants to call ?post-formal,? and a lyric intensity akin to that of Doty?s prominent influence, Hart Crane. The book was not simply a precursor of things to come, but evidence of a voice fully formed. One of the most notable poems in the collection is the extraordinary ?Charlie Howard?s Descent,? which describes the 1984 killing of a homosexual man who was thrown from a bridge by a group of boys in Bangor, Maine: ? Over and over he slipped into the gulf between what he knew and how he was known With these lines, Doty took bold steps toward becoming the first post-Stonewall gay poet to emerge as a major voice in American letters. His predecessors, such as James Merrill, William Meredith, and Richard Howard, had all favored a more privileged tone and vocabulary, elaborate ventriloquism through personae, or occluded references to homosexuality. On the opposite spectrum, Ginsberg used an expansive self-mythologizing strung along an elastic line to address topics that placed him on America?s sexual margins. With Turtle, Swan, Doty effectively merged the political with the aesthetic, uniting a taut line with a lyric voice and an imagination that included notions of activism. Simply by being open about his sexuality, by using it as a subject for his poems without having it be the subject, Doty created a new model for gay and lesbian poets and poetry. For several years, Doty and his partner, Wally Roberts, lived in Montpelier, Vermont. Doty taught creative writing at Goddard College, where he?d received his M.F.A., and he and Wally renovated a one-hundred-ten-year-old house. In 1989, Wally tested positive for HIV. Doty tested negative. In his bestselling memoir about Wally?s illness and decline, Heaven?s Coast (HarperCollins, 1996), Doty writes, ?The virus seemed to me, first, like a kind of solvent which dissolved the future, our future, a little at a time. It was like a dark stain, a floating, inky transparency hovering over Wally?s body, and its intention was to erase the time ahead of us, to make that time, each day, a little smaller.? In 1989 the couple visited Provincetown, renting a house on the beach, and eventually decided to stay. The beautiful seaside environment, and the sizable gay community that could provide support for the couple as they faced Wally?s illness together, made it seem an ideal place to settle. In his second volume of poems, Bethlehem in Broad Daylight (David R. Godine, 1991), Doty began chronicling Provincetown, its light and harbor and glittering surfaces. More than rare beauty distinguished the poems, however. One got the sense that Doty now viewed poetry as an arena of argument?an argument between public and private selves about how to construct an inner life. Most remarkable in this second book is the way in which observation of the physical world is integrated into a deeply personal and intimate narrative. In 1993, Mark Doty?s third volume of poems was selected by Philip Levine for the National Poetry Series and published by the University of Illinois Press. My Alexandria (the title of which makes reference to another primary Doty influence, C. P. Cavafy) was a tour de force, catapulting Doty into the center of attention.The book is perhaps the finest in-depth literary investigation of the AIDS crisis, and at its center is the anticipation of tremendous loss, an ache that pervades each of the poems. Curiosity about the incidental leads to inner investigations of the relationship between sex and illness, desire and inevitable decay. In the long poem ?The Wings,? Doty begins with a description of a boy at an auction, lying on the grass, reading. As the poem progresses, he offers: ? Don?t let anybody tell you death?s the price exacted for the ability to love; couldn?t we live forever without running out of occasions? Both readers and critics responded generously to My Alexandria. The book received numerous awards, including The Los Angeles Times Book Award and the National Book Critics Circle Award. Yet Doty?s success was to be shadowed by loss. In February of 1994, his partner, Wally, died of complications from AIDS. Doty writes, ?In some way I had joined the invisible, too. I think that when people die they make those around them feel something like they felt; that may be the dying?s first legacy to us. . . . Acceptance breeds acceptance, as Wally?s attitude during his illness had shown; it?d been easy, somehow, for the people who took care of him to do so. He seemed, to those who carried him, to have made himself light.? In Atlantis, published in 1995 by HarperCollins, Doty documents with great acuity the colors and textures of Provincetown. The book describes storm after storm. Ruined boats are both ravishing and haunted. Each tempest leaves behind something beautiful, but tinged with sorrow. It is a book about a storm, and the storm?s quiet aftermath; something has been lost, but something else is left behind, worthy of description and contemplation. Punctuating the volume are occasional spikes of rage, as in the poem ?Homo Will Not Inherit,? in which the poet confronts a flier stating, ?Homo will not inherit. Repent and be saved.? ? . . . I have for hours believed?without judgment, without condemnation? that in each body, however obscured or recast, is the divine body?common, habitable? the way in a field of sunflowers you can see every bloom?s the multiple expression of a single shining idea, which is the face hammered into joy. This is Doty at the height of his powers, the poem driven into the world by force of the poet?s will, the engine hurtling it along his ecstatic imagistic capabilities. He turns biblical language on its ear, reclaiming its strength and lyricism, while exposing its misuse as an instrument of hate. The book?s primary subject remains grief and its survival?loss as it scours the psyche to the bone. With Sweet Machine (HarperCollins, 1998), Doty?s most recent book, we see a poet emerging with a more public voice, a formidable and lyrical style of argumentation. ?I?m wanting my own poems to turn more towards the social, to the common conditions of American life in our particular uncertain moment,? Doty says. ?I am, I guess, groping towards those poems; I?m trying to talk about public life without resorting to public language.? ?Mercy on Broadway? from Sweet Machine acts as a bridge, linking Doty?s previous work with his new artistic ambitions. The poet takes on the tumult and rapture of Manhattan, describing a scene on lower Broadway, where a woman is trying to sell a bowl full of turtles from a place on the sidewalk: ? . . . I?m forty-one years old and ready to get down on my knees to a kitchen bowl full of live green. I?m breathing here, a new man next to me who?s beginning to matter. The poem becomes a meditation on finding the will to start over, but it also functions as a love song for the noise and chaos of street life as it shuffles itself into and out of meaning. In this masterful poem, Doty combines the vast and the very small, what?s impersonal and what is deeply felt. Mark Doty makes his living as a teacher of creative writing, and in recent years he has taught at the Iowa Writers? Workshop, Columbia University School of the Arts, and the creative writing program at the University of Utah. He currently teaches one semester a year at the University of Houston, and he and his partner, the novelist Paul Lisicky, split their time between Houston and Provincetown. Doty recently finished a second memoir entitled Firebird, which will be published by HarperCollins next year. ?Firebird is an autobiography from six to sixteen, with a particular eye towards matters of aesthetic education: How do we learn to identify what we find beautiful, and what are the uses to which beauty is put? It?s a sissy boy?s story, and thus an exile?s tale, and a chronicle of a gradual process of coming to belong somewhere, to the world of art.? He goes on to add, ?I hope the book is not so much about me as it is an examination of a whole constellation of experiences and ideas?personal and collective?about art, sexuality, identity, gender, and the survival of the inner life.? On summer afternoons in Provincetown, students from the Cape Cod School of Art are seen throughout the town, painting landscapes of various local scenes. Very often, groups of them set up easels in the street in front of Mark Doty and Paul Lisicky?s two-century-old house. With its rose arbor, white clapboards, and vibrant, overblown flower beds, it?s the perfect New England subject. With each stroke, the painters try to get at something Doty noted in his poem ?Fog???some secret amplitude . . . in this orderly space??which exemplifies what Doty has been able to reveal, with grace and mastery, in his work and life. Mark Wunderlich is the author of the poetry collection The Anchorage, which will be published this spring by the University of Massachusetts Press. He is currently a Wallace Stegner Fellow at Stanford University and the managing director of the Napa Valley Writers? Conference. ????????????-from?Ploughshares, Spring 1999 ? ? About Mark Doty: A Profile ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? by Mark Wunderlich? A summer visitor to the Cape Cod resort village of Provincetown, Massachusetts, is liable to see just about anything walking down Commercial Street, the town?s main drag and zone of street theater. From muscle boys with shaved chests and nail polish to Portuguese fishermen in waders to a drag queen wearing a G-string, metal helmet, and gold body paint, the possibilities for human identities seem both fluid and vast. P-town is also a site of incredible natural beauty, but a volatile one. Surrounded on three sides by water, the tip of the Cape is pounded by waves and winter storms, its shape shifting as the wind moves the dunes. In the summer, it is a circus, in the winter, desolate. It is this landscape of both natural and human extremity and theatricality that the poet Mark Doty uses as the surface upon which to map an inner life. The author of five collections of poems and a memoir, Mark Doty is one of the most celebrated writers of his generation?the winner of a National Book Critics Circle Award and the first American to earn the T. S. Eliot Prize in Britain. He has also received a Whiting Writer?s Award, fellowships from the Guggenheim Foundation and the NEA, and the Witter Bynner Poetry Prize from the American Academy of Arts & Letters. Born in Maryville, Tennessee, in 1953, Doty spent much of his childhood moving around the country. His father was a civilian member of the Army Corps of Engineers, and the job required one relocation after another. The place where Doty first came in contact with contemporary poetry was Tucson, Arizona, where he went to high school. A drama teacher introduced him to the poet Richard Shelton, who read Doty?s early poems and encouraged him. ?Most importantly,? Doty says, ?he showed me that one could have a life as a poet, that literature, or any art, might be the very center of one?s experience.? No small trick in Tucson, in the suburbs in the sixties. One moment in particular stayed in Doty?s memory. ?I went to Dick Shelton?s house in the desert to help clean out his garage, and his wife, Lois, was at the piano when I walked in, playing Kurt Weill and singing ?Pirate Jenny? from The Threepenny Opera in German. I felt a window had opened onto another world.? During the seventies, while living in Iowa, where he?d attended Drake University, he cowrote and published three chapbooks with his then-wife, the poet Ruth Doty?books to which he no longer feels an allegiance. He now thinks of Turtle, Swan as his first book. Published in 1987 by David R. Godine, Turtle, Swan announced the arrival of a singular and vibrantly new voice in American poetry. These early poems were marked with what have come to be signatures of Doty?s work: an efficient narration of events, an elegant handling of free verse one wants to call ?post-formal,? and a lyric intensity akin to that of Doty?s prominent influence, Hart Crane. The book was not simply a precursor of things to come, but evidence of a voice fully formed. One of the most notable poems in the collection is the extraordinary ?Charlie Howard?s Descent,? which describes the 1984 killing of a homosexual man who was thrown from a bridge by a group of boys in Bangor, Maine: ? Over and over he slipped into the gulf between what he knew and how he was known With these lines, Doty took bold steps toward becoming the first post-Stonewall gay poet to emerge as a major voice in American letters. His predecessors, such as James Merrill, William Meredith, and Richard Howard, had all favored a more privileged tone and vocabulary, elaborate ventriloquism through personae, or occluded references to homosexuality. On the opposite spectrum, Ginsberg used an expansive self-mythologizing strung along an elastic line to address topics that placed him on America?s sexual margins. With Turtle, Swan, Doty effectively merged the political with the aesthetic, uniting a taut line with a lyric voice and an imagination that included notions of activism. Simply by being open about his sexuality, by using it as a subject for his poems without having it be the subject, Doty created a new model for gay and lesbian poets and poetry. For several years, Doty and his partner, Wally Roberts, lived in Montpelier, Vermont. Doty taught creative writing at Goddard College, where he?d received his M.F.A., and he and Wally renovated a one-hundred-ten-year-old house. In 1989, Wally tested positive for HIV. Doty tested negative. In his bestselling memoir about Wally?s illness and decline, Heaven?s Coast (HarperCollins, 1996), Doty writes, ?The virus seemed to me, first, like a kind of solvent which dissolved the future, our future, a little at a time. It was like a dark stain, a floating, inky transparency hovering over Wally?s body, and its intention was to erase the time ahead of us, to make that time, each day, a little smaller.? In 1989 the couple visited Provincetown, renting a house on the beach, and eventually decided to stay. The beautiful seaside environment, and the sizable gay community that could provide support for the couple as they faced Wally?s illness together, made it seem an ideal place to settle. In his second volume of poems, Bethlehem in Broad Daylight (David R. Godine, 1991), Doty began chronicling Provincetown, its light and harbor and glittering surfaces. More than rare beauty distinguished the poems, however. One got the sense that Doty now viewed poetry as an arena of argument?an argument between public and private selves about how to construct an inner life. Most remarkable in this second book is the way in which observation of the physical world is integrated into a deeply personal and intimate narrative. In 1993, Mark Doty?s third volume of poems was selected by Philip Levine for the National Poetry Series and published by the University of Illinois Press. My Alexandria (the title of which makes reference to another primary Doty influence, C. P. Cavafy) was a tour de force, catapulting Doty into the center of attention.The book is perhaps the finest in-depth literary investigation of the AIDS crisis, and at its center is the anticipation of tremendous loss, an ache that pervades each of the poems. Curiosity about the incidental leads to inner investigations of the relationship between sex and illness, desire and inevitable decay. In the long poem ?The Wings,? Doty begins with a description of a boy at an auction, lying on the grass, reading. As the poem progresses, he offers: ? Don?t let anybody tell you death?s the price exacted for the ability to love; couldn?t we live forever without running out of occasions? Both readers and critics responded generously to My Alexandria. The book received numerous awards, including The Los Angeles Times Book Award and the National Book Critics Circle Award. Yet Doty?s success was to be shadowed by loss. In February of 1994, his partner, Wally, died of complications from AIDS. Doty writes, ?In some way I had joined the invisible, too. I think that when people die they make those around them feel something like they felt; that may be the dying?s first legacy to us. . . . Acceptance breeds acceptance, as Wally?s attitude during his illness had shown; it?d been easy, somehow, for the people who took care of him to do so. He seemed, to those who carried him, to have made himself light.? In Atlantis, published in 1995 by HarperCollins, Doty documents with great acuity the colors and textures of Provincetown. The book describes storm after storm. Ruined boats are both ravishing and haunted. Each tempest leaves behind something beautiful, but tinged with sorrow. It is a book about a storm, and the storm?s quiet aftermath; something has been lost, but something else is left behind, worthy of description and contemplation. Punctuating the volume are occasional spikes of rage, as in the poem ?Homo Will Not Inherit,? in which the poet confronts a flier stating, ?Homo will not inherit. Repent and be saved.? ? . . . I have for hours believed?without judgment, without condemnation? that in each body, however obscured or recast, is the divine body?common, habitable? the way in a field of sunflowers you can see every bloom?s the multiple expression of a single shining idea, which is the face hammered into joy. This is Doty at the height of his powers, the poem driven into the world by force of the poet?s will, the engine hurtling it along his ecstatic imagistic capabilities. He turns biblical language on its ear, reclaiming its strength and lyricism, while exposing its misuse as an instrument of hate. The book?s primary subject remains grief and its survival?loss as it scours the psyche to the bone. With Sweet Machine (HarperCollins, 1998), Doty?s most recent book, we see a poet emerging with a more public voice, a formidable and lyrical style of argumentation. ?I?m wanting my own poems to turn more towards the social, to the common conditions of American life in our particular uncertain moment,? Doty says. ?I am, I guess, groping towards those poems; I?m trying to talk about public life without resorting to public language.? ?Mercy on Broadway? from Sweet Machine acts as a bridge, linking Doty?s previous work with his new artistic ambitions. The poet takes on the tumult and rapture of Manhattan, describing a scene on lower Broadway, where a woman is trying to sell a bowl full of turtles from a place on the sidewalk: ? . . . I?m forty-one years old and ready to get down on my knees to a kitchen bowl full of live green. I?m breathing here, a new man next to me who?s beginning to matter. The poem becomes a meditation on finding the will to start over, but it also functions as a love song for the noise and chaos of street life as it shuffles itself into and out of meaning. In this masterful poem, Doty combines the vast and the very small, what?s impersonal and what is deeply felt. Mark Doty makes his living as a teacher of creative writing, and in recent years he has taught at the Iowa Writers? Workshop, Columbia University School of the Arts, and the creative writing program at the University of Utah. He currently teaches one semester a year at the University of Houston, and he and his partner, the novelist Paul Lisicky, split their time between Houston and Provincetown. Doty recently finished a second memoir entitled Firebird, which will be published by HarperCollins next year. ?Firebird is an autobiography from six to sixteen, with a particular eye towards matters of aesthetic education: How do we learn to identify what we find beautiful, and what are the uses to which beauty is put? It?s a sissy boy?s story, and thus an exile?s tale, and a chronicle of a gradual process of coming to belong somewhere, to the world of art.? He goes on to add, ?I hope the book is not so much about me as it is an examination of a whole constellation of experiences and ideas?personal and collective?about art, sexuality, identity, gender, and the survival of the inner life.? On summer afternoons in Provincetown, students from the Cape Cod School of Art are seen throughout the town, painting landscapes of various local scenes. Very often, groups of them set up easels in the street in front of Mark Doty and Paul Lisicky?s two-century-old house. With its rose arbor, white clapboards, and vibrant, overblown flower beds, it?s the perfect New England subject. With each stroke, the painters try to get at something Doty noted in his poem ?Fog???some secret amplitude . . . in this orderly space??which exemplifies what Doty has been able to reveal, with grace and mastery, in his work and life. Mark Wunderlich is the author of the poetry collection The Anchorage, which will be published this spring by the University of Massachusetts Press. He is currently a Wallace Stegner Fellow at Stanford University and the managing director of the Napa Valley Writers? Conference. ????????????-from?Ploughshares, Spring 1999 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From almaginnes at aol.com Fri Apr 11 20:04:42 2008 From: almaginnes at aol.com (almaginnes at aol.com) Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2008 20:04:42 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Dead Poet Walking In-Reply-To: <8CA6A3DDE438EA9-1014-3A4A@mblk-d47.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CA6A3DDE438EA9-1014-3A4A@mblk-d47.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <8CA6A47F150712B-157C-3A6F@WEBMAIL-MB15.sysops.aol.com> Some years ago I read a book of poems (published by Wesleyan?) by a poet named Steven Tood Booker who was on Florida's death row. Anyone heardof him or know what happened to him? -----Original Message----- From: jforjames at aol.com To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Fri, 11 Apr 2008 6:52 pm Subject: [New-Poetry] Dead Poet Walking http://uk.reuters.com/article/lifestyleMolt/idUKT20502120080411 Death row poet executed in Japan Fri Apr 11, 2008 2:32am BST? Email | Print | Share| Single Page| Recommend (0) [-] Text [+] By Isabel Reynolds TOKYO (Reuters Life!) - A convicted murderer who turned to writing poetry for solace while on death row was among four prisoners executed in Japan on Thursday. Kaoru Akinaga, who was found guilty of two 1989 murders as well as fraud, drugs and arms offences, wrote to a Japanese poetry society in 2004, asking to be allowed to study and write "tanka" short verse from his prison cell Get the MapQuest Toolbar, Maps, Traffic, Directions & More! _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wwmorgan at ilstu.edu Fri Apr 11 21:37:44 2008 From: wwmorgan at ilstu.edu (Bill Morgan) Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2008 20:37:44 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Call for Poems--The Hardy Review Message-ID: <007301c89c3d$cea50b00$6bef2100$@edu> Dear New Poetry list-- The Hardy Review, an annual publication for Thomas Hardy scholars and enthusiasts and published by the Thomas Hardy Association, would welcome submissions of high-quality, original poems that may take Hardy as their subject, that may mention him or his work, that may recall something about him in their theme or technique, that may show his influence in subtle or direct ways, or that might interest an audience of Hardy readers for some other reason we haven't yet imagined. The Review is just now entering upon its 10th year. It is edited by Professor Rosemarie Morgan of Yale University and published in an attractive, slick-paper format by Maney Publishing. See a cover image and a sample table of contents at the Thomas Hardy Association's main page: http://www.yale.edu/hardysoc/Welcome/welcomet.htm Postal submissions, including a brief cover letter, brief bio, and SASE should be sent to: Bill Morgan 603 N. School Street Normal, IL 61761 Electronic submissions (with all the attendant formatting perils) may be sent to wwmorgan at ilstu.edu Cheers, Bill Morgan Poetry Editor, The Hardy Review -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lsgrimes at stonegulch.com Sat Apr 12 06:43:29 2008 From: lsgrimes at stonegulch.com (Linda Sue Grimes) Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2008 05:43:29 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Dead Poet Walking References: <8CA6A3DDE438EA9-1014-3A4A@mblk-d47.sysops.aol.com> <8CA6A47F150712B-157C-3A6F@WEBMAIL-MB15.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <000701c89c8a$10aa1120$0201a8c0@LindaSue> Here's some info about a Steven Todd Booker: http://www.fldoc.gov/ActiveInmates/Detail.asp?Bookmark=1&From=list&SessionID=55434423, http://offender.fdle.state.fl.us/offender/flyer.do?personId=51674 http://www.law.fsu.edu/library/flsupct/sc06-121/06-121rep.pdf --lsg ----- Original Message ----- From: almaginnes at aol.com To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Friday, April 11, 2008 7:04 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Dead Poet Walking Some years ago I read a book of poems (published by Wesleyan?) by a poet named Steven Tood Booker who was on Florida's death row. Anyone heardof him or know what happened to him? -----Original Message----- From: jforjames at aol.com To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Fri, 11 Apr 2008 6:52 pm Subject: [New-Poetry] Dead Poet Walking http://uk.reuters.com/article/lifestyleMolt/idUKT20502120080411 Death row poet executed in Japan Fri Apr 11, 2008 2:32am BST Email | Print | Share| Single Page| Recommend (0) [-] Text [+] By Isabel Reynolds TOKYO (Reuters Life!) - A convicted murderer who turned to writing poetry for solace while on death row was among four prisoners executed in Japan on Thursday. Kaoru Akinaga, who was found guilty of two 1989 murders as well as fraud, drugs and arms offences, wrote to a Japanese poetry society in 2004, asking to be allowed to study and write "tanka" short verse from his prison cell ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Get the MapQuest Toolbar, Maps, Traffic, Directions & More! _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Get the MapQuest Toolbar, Maps, Traffic, Directions & More! ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From amyhappens at yahoo.com Sat Apr 12 10:46:59 2008 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king) Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2008 07:46:59 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Nominations Open For 2008 Poet Laureate of The Blogosphere Message-ID: <815786.27127.qm@web83307.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> >From Billy Jones: I'm pleased to announce that BloggingPoet.com will againhost the Poet Laureate Of The Blogosphere Election for the 4th year in a rowwith nominations beginning April 1, 2008. The Poet Laureate of the Blogosphereis the only laureateship chosen by readers. Previous winners are Amy King, Ron Silliman and Jilly Dybka. Rules for 2008 are as follows: 1. Those nominated must have a history of posting poetry totheir blogs for a period of no less than 1 year prior to March 1, 2008. 2. Anyone can nominate their favorite poetry blogger. 3. Nominations will begin on April 1st and will end on April20th. 4. Voting will begin on April 21st and will end at !2:00midnight on April 29th. 5. The winner will be announced on April 30th. 6. As in years past, Billy Jones, aka. Billy The BloggingPoet, aka. me, will not be nominated as I am hosting the event. 7. English language only as I'm too dumb to know a poem inany other language. 8. Previous winners cannot be nominated. 9. Like it or not, all decisions by the judge (That would beme.) arefinal. 10. All nominations must be made in the form provided on April 1st. E-mail, write-ins, protests and other means to nominate will not be accepted. http://bloggingpoet.squarespace.com/bloggingpoetcom/nominations-to-begin-for-2008-poet-laureate-of-the-blogosphe.html _______ http://www.amyking.org http://demonoide.org http://redherring.us http://poetryexperiment.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From amyhappens at yahoo.com Sat Apr 12 11:11:26 2008 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king) Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2008 08:11:26 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] CORRECTION: Nominations Open For 2008 Poet Laureate of The Blogosphere (includes form) Message-ID: <502746.72936.qm@web83311.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Nominations For The 2008 Poet Laureate Of The BlogosphereHave Begun The time has finally come to nominate the 2008 Poet Laureateof the Blogosphere but please read the following rules before adding yournomination to the comment form at the bottom of this post. The rules are as follows: 1. Those nominated must have a history of posting poetry totheir blogs for a period of no less than 1 year prior to March 1, 2008. 2. Anyone can nominate their favorite poetry blogger. 3. Nominations will begin on April 1st and will end on April20th. 4. Voting will begin on April 21st and will end at 12:00midnight on April 29th. 5. The winner will be announced on April 30th. 6. As in years past, Billy Jones, aka. Billy The BloggingPoet, aka. me, will not be nominated as I am hosting the event. 7. English language only as I'm too dumb to know a poem inany other language. 8. Previous winners cannot be nominated. 9. Like it or not, all decisions by the judge (That would beme.) arefinal. 10. All nominations must be made in the form provided. That form is the comment form at the bottom of this post. http://bloggingpoet.squarespace.com/bloggingpoetcom/nominations-for-the-2008-poet-laureate-of-the-blogosphere-ha.html _______ http://www.amyking.org http://demonoide.org http://redherring.us http://poetryexperiment.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames at aol.com Sat Apr 12 11:30:50 2008 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2008 11:30:50 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] New CC: Amy King Message-ID: I'm happy to say that Amy King has been named one of the Contributing Correspondents to the NewPoetry List. These list members have agreed to keep things percolating by posting poetry-related items/comments on a more or less regular basis. Thanks, Amy. Jim Finnegan List Boss **************It's Tax Time! Get tips, forms and advice on AOL Money & Finance. (http://money.aol.com/tax?NCID=aolcmp00300000002850) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at tin.it Sat Apr 12 14:47:06 2008 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2008 20:47:06 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] New CC: Amy King In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <10CF52F38EB04003B9B6C6F05B3E0B1D@AnnyPC> Congratulations Amy! Greatest choice Jim. Believe or not I went to vote for the PL of the Blogosphere and voted for James Finnegan, as soon as my post was on, I noticed that Jim had voted for me, I am just so surprised and grateful! Thank you and thank you, I will be uploading some pics I took today, Till later, Anny ----- Original Message ----- From: JforJames at aol.com To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Saturday, April 12, 2008 5:30 PM Subject: [New-Poetry] New CC: Amy King I'm happy to say that Amy King has been named one of the Contributing Correspondents to the NewPoetry List. These list members have agreed to keep things percolating by posting poetry-related items/comments on a more or less regular basis. Thanks, Amy. Jim Finnegan List Boss ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ It's Tax Time! Get tips, forms and advice on AOL Money & Finance. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.12/1374 - Release Date: 4/11/2008 4:59 PM -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at tin.it Sat Apr 12 16:48:47 2008 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2008 22:48:47 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fw: [NarcissusWorks] Trees Roots Rocks Message-ID: <54B05B33370C4D62907CC2318FA96750@AnnyPC> These are quite strange pictures, or? ----- Original Message ----- From: Anny Ballardini To: anny.ballardini at tin.it Sent: Saturday, April 12, 2008 9:52 PM Subject: [NarcissusWorks] Trees Roots Rocks -- Posted By Anny Ballardini to NarcissusWorks at 4/12/2008 09:49:00 PM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.12/1374 - Release Date: 4/11/2008 4:59 PM -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at tin.it Sat Apr 12 16:50:04 2008 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2008 22:50:04 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fw: [NarcissusWorks] colorful underworld Message-ID: and also these, ----- Original Message ----- From: Anny Ballardini To: anny.ballardini at tin.it Sent: Saturday, April 12, 2008 9:59 PM Subject: [NarcissusWorks] colorful underworld -- Posted By Anny Ballardini to NarcissusWorks at 4/12/2008 09:52:00 PM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.12/1374 - Release Date: 4/11/2008 4:59 PM -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From shin02143 at aol.com Sat Apr 12 18:46:42 2008 From: shin02143 at aol.com (shin02143 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2008 18:46:42 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fw: [NarcissusWorks] Trees Roots Rocks In-Reply-To: <54B05B33370C4D62907CC2318FA96750@AnnyPC> References: <54B05B33370C4D62907CC2318FA96750@AnnyPC> Message-ID: <8CA6B063648BC21-EE0-31F8@WEBMAIL-DG08.sim.aol.com> Looks like a human skull in the lower part of the third picture. Scarey! Rick -----Original Message----- From: Anny Ballardini To: New Poetry Sent: Sat, 12 Apr 2008 4:48 pm Subject: [New-Poetry] Fw: [NarcissusWorks] Trees Roots Rocks These are quite strange pictures, or? ? ----- Original Message ----- From: Anny Ballardini To: anny.ballardini at tin.it Sent: Saturday, April 12, 2008 9:52 PM Subject: [NarcissusWorks] Trees Roots Rocks -- Posted By Anny Ballardini to NarcissusWorks at 4/12/2008 09:49:00 PM No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.12/1374 - Release Date: 4/11/2008 4:59 PM _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Sat Apr 12 21:07:07 2008 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2008 21:07:07 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] reading styles Message-ID: <8CA6B19D3FEE724-1520-1020@FWM-M30.sysops.aol.com> http://weekendamerica.publicradio.org/display/web/2008/04/10/poet_speak/ To the untrained ear, all poets may sound the same, but poets have voiced a wide range of styles for centuries. Yeats exemplifies what we'll call the "sing-song" voice. Anecdotal theories trace it to influential European poets with accented English, and some think the voice took on new dimensions during the drug-induced stupors of the beatnik era. And then there's the jazz remix of the poet voice, popular in the spoken word world. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Opus40-01 at opus40.org Sat Apr 12 21:11:34 2008 From: Opus40-01 at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2008 21:11:34 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] reading styles In-Reply-To: <8CA6B19D3FEE724-1520-1020@FWM-M30.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CA6B19D3FEE724-1520-1020@FWM-M30.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <48015DC6.8090207@opus40.org> Is there a disco remix? jforjames at aol.com wrote: > http://weekendamerica.publicradio.org/display/web/2008/04/10/poet_speak/ > > To the untrained ear, all poets may sound the same, but poets have > voiced a wide range of styles for centuries. Yeats exemplifies what > we'll call the "sing-song" voice. Anecdotal theories trace it to > influential European poets with accented English, and some think the > voice took on new dimensions during the drug-induced stupors of the > beatnik era. And then there's the jazz remix of the poet voice, > popular in the spoken word world. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Get the MapQuest Toolbar > , Maps, > Traffic, Directions & More! > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ The moral is this: in American verse, The better you are, the pay is worse. --Corey Ford From grahamd at ripon.edu Sun Apr 13 08:47:58 2008 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2008 07:47:58 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Anti-Graham Message-ID: <200804131247.m3DClxXI022653@mail27c35.nsolutionszone.com> I may have neglected to toot my horn: I am currently featured at the online journal *Anti-*: http://anti-poetry.com/ ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.mac.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Opus40-01 at opus40.org Sun Apr 13 08:51:42 2008 From: Opus40-01 at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2008 08:51:42 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Anti-Graham In-Reply-To: <200804131247.m3DClxXI022653@mail27c35.nsolutionszone.com> References: <200804131247.m3DClxXI022653@mail27c35.nsolutionszone.com> Message-ID: <480201DE.7020601@opus40.org> Glad you finally tooted. This is good stuff. David Graham wrote: > I may have neglected to toot my horn: I am currently featured at the > online journal *Anti-*: > > http://anti-poetry.com/ > > > > > > ======================================== > David Graham > grahamd at ripon.edu > > Home Page: > http://web.mac.com/drjazz > > Poetry Library: > http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html > ========================================== > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ The moral is this: in American verse, The better you are, the pay is worse. --Corey Ford From anny.ballardini at tin.it Sun Apr 13 09:28:02 2008 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2008 15:28:02 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Anti-Graham In-Reply-To: <480201DE.7020601@opus40.org> References: <200804131247.m3DClxXI022653@mail27c35.nsolutionszone.com> <480201DE.7020601@opus40.org> Message-ID: I do agree, nice nice ----- Original Message ----- From: "TheOldMole" To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views" Sent: Sunday, April 13, 2008 2:51 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Anti-Graham > Glad you finally tooted. This is good stuff. > > David Graham wrote: >> I may have neglected to toot my horn: I am currently featured at the >> online journal *Anti-*: >> >> http://anti-poetry.com/ >> >> >> >> >> >> ======================================== >> David Graham >> grahamd at ripon.edu >> >> Home Page: >> http://web.mac.com/drjazz >> >> Poetry Library: >> http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html >> ========================================== >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> > > -- > Tad Richards > http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ > http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ > > The moral is this: in American verse, > The better you are, the pay is worse. > --Corey Ford > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.13/1375 - > Release Date: 4/12/2008 11:32 AM > > From wwmorgan at ilstu.edu Sun Apr 13 10:47:08 2008 From: wwmorgan at ilstu.edu (Bill Morgan) Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2008 09:47:08 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Anti-Graham In-Reply-To: References: <200804131247.m3DClxXI022653@mail27c35.nsolutionszone.com> <480201DE.7020601@opus40.org> Message-ID: <00b801c89d75$40087650$c01962f0$@edu> Well done, David. -----Original Message----- From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Anny Ballardini Sent: Sunday, April 13, 2008 8:28 AM To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Anti-Graham I do agree, nice nice ----- Original Message ----- From: "TheOldMole" To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views" Sent: Sunday, April 13, 2008 2:51 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Anti-Graham > Glad you finally tooted. This is good stuff. > > David Graham wrote: >> I may have neglected to toot my horn: I am currently featured at the >> online journal *Anti-*: >> >> http://anti-poetry.com/ >> >> >> >> >> >> ======================================== >> David Graham >> grahamd at ripon.edu >> >> Home Page: >> http://web.mac.com/drjazz >> >> Poetry Library: >> http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html >> ========================================== >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> > > -- > Tad Richards > http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ > http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ > > The moral is this: in American verse, > The better you are, the pay is worse. > --Corey Ford > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.13/1375 - > Release Date: 4/12/2008 11:32 AM > > _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From halvard at earthlink.net Sun Apr 13 11:57:02 2008 From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson) Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2008 11:57:02 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Anti-Graham In-Reply-To: <200804131247.m3DClxXI022653@mail27c35.nsolutionszone.com> References: <200804131247.m3DClxXI022653@mail27c35.nsolutionszone.com> Message-ID: Enjoyable work indeed, David. But I note with alarm that your head seems to have developed a tilt to the right. Too many years in small-town Wisconsin? Hal "In Latin America, even atheists are Catholics." --Carlos Fuentes Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html On Apr 13, 2008, at 8:47 AM, David Graham wrote: > I may have neglected to toot my horn: I am currently featured at > the online journal *Anti-*: > > http://anti-poetry.com/ > > > > > > ======================================== > David Graham > grahamd at ripon.edu > > Home Page: > http://web.mac.com/drjazz > > Poetry Library: > http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html > ========================================== > > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at earthlink.net Sun Apr 13 12:10:34 2008 From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson) Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2008 12:10:34 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Sonnet: Tropical Forest with Monkeys Message-ID: <9CDC0C27-6C91-44E5-ADA5-664DDBB7CF2A@earthlink.net> Sonnet: Tropical Forest with Monkeys When you take your monkeys fishing in the forest it?s important to remind them not to leave their fishing poles behind. Animals, as we know, often have human traits and characteristics, and vice versa. If they express fear of the forest, point out to them that the jungle is not as deep as it once was. Farming and lumbering and strip- mining have now seen to that. Have your monkeys express their thoughts and fears in little balloons above their heads. Consider having them write little screenplays that, once home, they can act in as well as direct and produce to share with a wider audience. Bringing along journals and making entries in them whenever they have a spare moment is never a bad idea. Monkeys, whether macaques or langurs or gibbons, all enjoy trips to the forest. They always have a good time. Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From david.bircumshaw at ntlworld.com Sun Apr 13 16:51:42 2008 From: david.bircumshaw at ntlworld.com (David Bircumshaw) Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2008 21:51:42 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] reading styles In-Reply-To: <48015DC6.8090207@opus40.org> References: <8CA6B19D3FEE724-1520-1020@FWM-M30.sysops.aol.com> <48015DC6.8090207@opus40.org> Message-ID: <4802725E.3050402@ntlworld.com> So this means that some English poets nowadays read in toneless flat voices, rather like polite versions of daleks but without an equivalent feeling for nuance, is because it's a /style/? -- David Bircumshaw Website and A Chide's Alphabet http://homepage.ntlworld.com/david.bircumshaw/ The Animal Subsides http://www.arrowheadpress.co.uk/books/animal.html Leicester Poetry Society: http://www.poetryleicester.co.uk From amyhappens at yahoo.com Mon Apr 14 08:32:06 2008 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king) Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2008 05:32:06 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] New CC: Amy King Message-ID: <208402.88198.qm@web83309.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Thanks for including me - I'll do my darndest to keep up! Cheers, Amy _______ http://www.amyking.org ----- Original Message ---- From: "JforJames at aol.com" To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Saturday, April 12, 2008 11:30:50 AM Subject: [New-Poetry] New CC: Amy King I'm happy to say that Amy King has been named one of the Contributing Correspondents to the NewPoetry List. These list members have agreed to keep things percolating by posting poetry-related items/comments on a more or less regular basis. Thanks, Amy. Jim Finnegan List Boss ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From amyhappens at yahoo.com Mon Apr 14 08:33:51 2008 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king) Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2008 05:33:51 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] GO LOCAL: NATIONAL POETRY MONTH x 10! Message-ID: <422662.89412.qm@web83312.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> NATIONAL POETRY MONTH x 10! WHY: Eating, growing, and celebrating locally tofind the world in a grain of Brooklyn andeternity in an hour or two! WHEN: Friday, April 25th @ 7 p.m. ?Sharp! WHERE: Stain Bar in Williamsburg,Brooklyn WHO: BANIAS~~ BERRIGAN ~~ BOZICEVIC ~~ BRYANT ~~ DICKOW ~~ HOY ~~ KOCOT ~~ SMITH ~~ STARKWEATHER ~~ WILLIAMSON ARI BANIAS grew up in California,Texas, and Illinois. He now lives in Brooklyn,NY and teaches undergraduate creative writingand literature at Hunter College. His poems areforthcoming in The Cincinnati Review, Literary Imagination, and FIELD, and haverecently appeared in Mid-American Review (as a feature), Arts & Letters,and RealPoetik. EDMUND BERRIGAN is the author of Glad Stone Children(Farfalla Press, 2008) and is co-editor with Anselm Berrigan and Alice Notleyof a forthcoming Selected Poems of Ted Berrigan (University of California). ANA BOZICEVIC moved to NYC from Croatia in 1997. She's the authorof chapbooks Document (Octopus Books, 2007) and Morning News (Kitchen Press,2006). Look for her recent work in Denver Quarterly, Hotel Amerika, absent, TheNew York Quarterly, Bat City Review, MiPOesias, Octopus Magazine and ThePortable Boog Reader 2: An Anthology of NYC Poetry. Ana coedits RealPoetik. TISA BRYANT is the author of Tzimmes (A+Bend Press, 2000),which collages concerns of breast cancer, Barbados genealogy research, aPassover seder and a film by Yvonne Rainer, and her first book, UnexplainedPresence (Leon Works, 2007), is a collection of original, hybrid essays thatremix narratives from Eurocentric film, literature and visual arts and zoom inon the black presences operating within them. She currently lives in Brooklyn, NY. ALEXANDER DICKOW grew up in Moscow,Idaho, traveled to France,got married to a French woman, studies French literature at Rutgers,and writes poems. His work has appeared in both Yankee and Hexagonal journalsincluding MiPO, RealPoetik, Sitaudis, Il Particolare, Hapax, can wehave our ball back? and others. A full-length bilingual collection,_Caramboles_, will be published by the Parisian press Argol Editions in October2008. Alex currently lives in bucolic central New Jersey. DAN HOY lives in Brooklynand is an editor for SOFT TARGETS. His poetry chapbook, Outtakes, was publishedby Lame House Press in 2007. NOELLE KOCOT is the author of 3 books of poems, 4 and TheRaving Fortune, out from Four Way Books in 2001 and 2004, respectively, andPoem for the End of Time, out from Wave Books in 2006, of which the NY TimesBook Review deemed the long title poem, "extraordinary." She has won awards from The NationalEndowment for the Arts, The Fund For Poetry, The Academy of American Poets andThe American Poetry Review, among others. She lives in Brooklyn, where she wasborn and raised, and teaches for a living. Her fourth book, Sunny Wednesday, will be published by Wave Books inspring, 2009. JESSICA SMITH is the editor of Outside Voices Press, whichpublishes Foursquare magazine. She wrotea book called Organic Furniture Cellar. She maintains a blog that incites bothhate mail and proposals. She recentlymoved to Brooklyn and is looking for a job. SAMPSON STARKWEATHER is a small African village patrolled by dream-fed lions. They sway in the grasses when you move. His handwriting, which has been featured in several medical journals, strong-armed him into a life of asemic writing. He is the author of The Book of Sky, a wordless text published by anyone. DUSTIN WILLIAMSON is the author of Heavy Panda (Goodbye Better), Gorilla Dust (Open24Hours Press), and Exhausted Grunts (Cannibal Books). He publishes Rust Buckle Books and is the current curator of the Zinc Talk Reading Series. ~~~ STAIN BAR 766 Grand Street Brooklyn , NY 11211 (L train to Grand Street Stop, walk 1 block west) 718/387-7840 ?The thing about performance, even if it's only an illusion,is that it is a celebration of the fact that we do contain within ourselvesinfinite possibilities.? -- Sydney Smith Amy King will host -----> http://amyking.wordpress.com/2008/04/13/national-poetry-month-x-10/ _______ http://www.amyking.org ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Opus40-01 at opus40.org Mon Apr 14 09:03:50 2008 From: Opus40-01 at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2008 09:03:50 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] New CC: Amy King In-Reply-To: <208402.88198.qm@web83309.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: <208402.88198.qm@web83309.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <48035636.60503@opus40.org> Things go better with Amy. amy king wrote: > Thanks for including me - I'll do my darndest to keep up! > > Cheers, > Amy > > _______ > > http://www.amyking.org > > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: "JforJames at aol.com" > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Sent: Saturday, April 12, 2008 11:30:50 AM > Subject: [New-Poetry] New CC: Amy King > > I'm happy to say that Amy King has been named one of the > Contributing Correspondents to the NewPoetry List. These list > members have agreed to keep things percolating by posting > poetry-related items/comments on a more or less regular basis. > Thanks, Amy. > > Jim Finnegan > List Boss > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ The moral is this: in American verse, The better you are, the pay is worse. --Corey Ford From halvard at earthlink.net Mon Apr 14 12:18:28 2008 From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson) Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2008 12:18:28 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] How to Write a Book . . . no, a Lot of Books Message-ID: April 14, 2008 LINK BY LINK He Wrote 200,000 Books (but Computers Did Some of the Work) By NOAM COHEN It?s not easy to write a book. First you have to pick a title. And then there is the table of contents. If you want the book to be categorized, either by a bookseller or a library, it has to be assigned a unique numerical code, like an ISBN, for International Standard Book Number. There have to be proper margins. Finally, there?s the back cover. Oh, and there is all that stuff in the middle, too. The writing. Philip M. Parker seems to have licked that problem. Mr. Parker has generated more than 200,000 books, as an advanced search on Amazon.com under his publishing company shows, making him, in his own words, ?the most published author in the history of the planet.? And he makes money doing it. Among the books published under his name are ?The Official Patient?s Sourcebook on Acne Rosacea? ($24.95 and 168 pages long); ?Stickler Syndrome: A Bibliography and Dictionary for Physicians, Patients and Genome Researchers? ($28.95 for 126 pages); and ?The 2007-2012 Outlook for Tufted Washable Scatter Rugs, Bathmats and Sets That Measure 6- Feet by 9-Feet or Smaller in India? ($495 for 144 pages). But these are not conventional books, and it is perhaps more accurate to call Mr. Parker a compiler than an author. Mr. Parker, who is also the chaired professor of management science at Insead (a business school with campuses in Fontainebleau, France, and Singapore), has developed computer algorithms that collect publicly available information on a subject ? broad or obscure ? and, aided by his 60 to 70 computers and six or seven programmers, he turns the results into books in a range of genres, many of them in the range of 150 pages and printed only when a customer buys one. If this sounds like cheating to the layman?s ear, it does not to Mr. Parker, who holds some provocative ? and apparently profitable ? ideas on what constitutes a book. While the most popular of his books may sell hundreds of copies, he said, many have sales in the dozens, often to medical libraries collecting nearly everything he produces. He has extended his technique to crossword puzzles, rudimentary poetry and even to scripts for animated game shows. And he is laying the groundwork for romance novels generated by new algorithms. ?I?ve already set it up,? he said. ?There are only so many body parts.? Perusing a work like the outlook for bathmat sales in India, a reader would be hard pressed to find an actual sentence that was ?written? by the computer. If you were to open a book, you would find a title page, a detailed table of contents, and many, many pages of graphics with introductory boilerplate that is adjusted for the content and genre. While nothing announces that Mr. Parker?s books are computer generated, one reader, David Pascoe, seemed close to figuring it out himself, based on his comments to Amazon in 2004. Reviewing a guide to rosacea, a skin disorder, Mr. Pascoe, who is from Perth, Australia, complained: ?The book is more of a template for ?generic health researching? than anything specific to rosacea. The information is of such a generic level that a sourcebook on the next medical topic is just a search and replace away.? When told via e-mail that his suspicion was correct, Mr. Pascoe wrote back, ?I guess it makes sense now as to why the book was so awful and frustrating.?Mr. Parker was willing to concede much of what Mr. Pascoe argued. ?If you are good at the Internet, this book is useless,? he said, adding that Mr. Pascoe simply should not have bought it. But, Mr. Parker said, there are people who aren?t Internet savvy who have found these guides useful. It is the idea of automating difficult or boring work that led Mr. Parker to become involved. Comparing himself to a distant disciple of Henry Ford, he said he was ?deconstructing the process of getting books into people?s hands; every single step we could think of, we automated.? He added: ?My goal isn?t to have the computer write sentences, but to do the repetitive tasks that are too costly to do otherwise.? In an interview from his home in San Diego and his offices nearby, Mr. Parker described his motivation as providing content that the marketplace has otherwise neglected for lack of an audience. That can mean a relatively obscure language is involved, or a relatively obscure disease or a relatively obscure product. Take, for example, the study of bathmats in India. ?Only one person in the world may be interested in that,? he conceded, ?probably a strategic planner for a multinational that makes those.? But he points out that once he has trained the computer to take data about past sales and make complex calculations to project future sales, each new book costs him about 12 cents in electricity. Since these books are print-on-demand or delivered electronically, he is ahead after the first sale, he said. His company, the Icon Group International, is the long tail of the bell curve come to life ? generating significant total sales by adding up tens of thousands of what might be called worst sellers. For example, a search at the Galter Health Sciences Library of the Feinberg School of Medicine at Northwestern Universityfound half a dozen Icon books, mainly in the library for patients and their families. Icon is ?a very innovative and interesting example of print on demand,? said Kurt Beidler, a senior manager at Amazon.com who runs the publishers? services for BookSurge, Amazon?s print-on-demand company. ?A lot of examples of print on demand take older books and bring them back ? really acting as a supply-chain tool. In this kind of business, it?s a new business, using this capability to introduce new material to customers.? Mr. Parker compares his methods to those of a traditional publisher, but with the computer simply performing some of the scut work. In an explanatoryYouTube video, Mr. Parker shows a book being created. The computer is given an assignment ? project the latent demand for antipsychotic drugs around the world, based on the sales figures in the United States. ?Using a little bit of artificial intelligence, a computer program has been created that mimics the thought process of someone who would be responsible for doing such a study,? Mr. Parker says. ?But rather than taking many months to do the study. the computer accomplishes this in about 13 minutes.? An editor picks the years to be covered, but the computer picks the optimum model for extrapolating sales in various countries, and in alphabetical order produces a chart for each country. ?It will then open a Word document and export the information into Word just like a real author would out of their minds, so to speak, or spreadsheets,? he says. Artificial intelligence researchers say computers are far from being what the general public would consider authors. ?There is a continuous spectrum, also known as a slippery slope, between a program that automatically typesets a telephone directory and a program that generates English texts at the level of variety you would expect from a typical human English speaker,? said Chung-chieh Shan, an assistant professor in the computer science department of Rutgers. ?The former program is easy to write, the latter program is very difficult; in fact, the holy grail of linguistics. Like Mad-Libs, Parker?s programs probably lie somewhere between the two ends of this spectrum.? Mr. Parker has lately taken to lighter fare intended to educate. He said he had invested ?up to seven figures into the animation business? for word-based video games and animated game shows that will teach English to non-English speakers. YouTube has many examples of these games, which have computer- generated scripts. A low-tech version of those games are the thousands of crossword puzzle books Mr. Parker has made in about 20 languages. The clues are in a foreign language and the answers are in English. The computer designs the puzzles and ensures that the words become harder as one progresses. As part of his love of words, and dictionaries in all languages, Mr. Parker said he has taken to having his computers create acrostic poems ? where the first letter of a series of words spells a synonym of those words, often to ironic effect. Of course, one of the difficulties of generating a hundred thousand poems is stepping back and assessing their quality. ?Do you think one of them is Shakespeare?? he was asked. ?No,? he said. ?Only because I haven?t done sonnets yet.? http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/14/business/media/14link.html?_r=1&oref=slogin&dpc=&pagewanted=all ===== Hal "Am I wrong, or are fewer and fewer people using the word 'Weltschmerz' these days?" --Christopher Howell Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html From skip at louisiana.edu Mon Apr 14 15:56:07 2008 From: skip at louisiana.edu (Skip Fox) Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2008 14:56:07 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fw: [NarcissusWorks] Trees Roots Rocks In-Reply-To: <54B05B33370C4D62907CC2318FA96750@AnnyPC> Message-ID: <000601c89e69$9a6c4280$3b874682@win.louisiana.edu> Very nice -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at tin.it Mon Apr 14 16:09:36 2008 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2008 22:09:36 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] philip levine Message-ID: <026864F5A3F84DE8883ED8D1ED05C4E8@AnnyPC> I received a couple of days ago: THE BREAD OF TIME by philip levine I put it in my bag and today I finally had a couple of minutes to read a couple of pages. I could not but think of this list when I read the following: At first I was surprised by how much pleasure the writing of these pieces gave me, but I soon realized it was that pleasure that kept me writing. My hope for this book is that my readers will share that pleasure. page 4: Pound himself showed Ford Madox Ford some early verse, serious stuff, and Fordie laughed so hard upon reading the work he actually fell on the floor and "rolled around on it squealing with hilarity at the poems." Pound said that Ford's laughter saved him two years of work in the wrong direction. Fixing the Foot: On Rhythm FOR LEJAN KWINT Yesterday I heard a Dutch doctor talking to a small girl who had cut her foot, not seriously, and was very frightened by the sight of her own blood. "Nay! Nay!" he said over and over. I could hear him quite distinctly through the wall that separated us, and his voice was strong and calm, he spoke very slowly and seemed never to stop speaking, almost as though he were chanting, never too loud or too soft. her voice, which had been explosive and shrill at first, gradually softened until I could no longer make it out as he went on talking and, I sup- posed, working. Then a silence, and he said, "Ah" and some words I could not understand. I imagined him stepping spryly back to survey his work. And then another voice, silent before, the girl's father, thanking him, and then the girl thanking him, now in a child's voice. A door opening and closing. And it was over. AMSTERDAM, JUNE, 1974 Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at tin.it Mon Apr 14 17:05:37 2008 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2008 23:05:37 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fw: [NarcissusWorks] Trees Roots Rocks In-Reply-To: <000601c89e69$9a6c4280$3b874682@win.louisiana.edu> References: <000601c89e69$9a6c4280$3b874682@win.louisiana.edu> Message-ID: <5E70694E10F8418A85B80101A390CD2F@AnnyPC> Thank you, Anny ----- Original Message ----- From: Skip Fox To: 'NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views' Sent: Monday, April 14, 2008 9:56 PM Subject: RE: [New-Poetry] Fw: [NarcissusWorks] Trees Roots Rocks Very nice -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ciccariello at gmail.com Mon Apr 14 17:45:19 2008 From: ciccariello at gmail.com (Peter Ciccariello) Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2008 17:45:19 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fw: [NarcissusWorks] Trees Roots Rocks In-Reply-To: <54B05B33370C4D62907CC2318FA96750@AnnyPC> References: <54B05B33370C4D62907CC2318FA96750@AnnyPC> Message-ID: <8f3fdbad0804141445o7d58ed6bx45c50a5bff1f3c06@mail.gmail.com> Makes a fine sequence Anny! - Peter On Sat, Apr 12, 2008 at 4:48 PM, Anny Ballardini wrote: > These are quite strange pictures, or? > > ----- Original Message ----- *From:* Anny Ballardini > *To:* anny.ballardini at tin.it > *Sent:* Saturday, April 12, 2008 9:52 PM > *Subject:* [NarcissusWorks] Trees Roots Rocks > > > > > > > > > -- > Posted By Anny Ballardini to NarcissusWorksat 4/12/2008 09:49:00 PM > > ------------------------------ > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG. > Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.12/1374 - Release Date: > 4/11/2008 4:59 PM > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd at ripon.edu Mon Apr 14 18:16:01 2008 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2008 17:16:01 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Queen's English Society Demands Rhyme and Metre Message-ID: <200804142216.m3EMG2Dd027689@mail65c35.nsolutionszone.com> Here's the sort of delightful story that the New Yorker used to run under a headline like "There'll Always Be An England." http://books.guardian.co.uk/news/articles/0,,2273299,00.html ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.mac.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at tin.it Mon Apr 14 18:16:09 2008 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 00:16:09 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] bob gruman Message-ID: here is geof huth with bob gruman again: http://dbqp.blogspot.com/2008/04/blog-post.html Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cervantes.james at gmail.com Mon Apr 14 19:49:19 2008 From: cervantes.james at gmail.com (James Cervantes) Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2008 18:49:19 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Sonnet: Tropical Forest with Monkeys In-Reply-To: <9CDC0C27-6C91-44E5-ADA5-664DDBB7CF2A@earthlink.net> References: <9CDC0C27-6C91-44E5-ADA5-664DDBB7CF2A@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <648208b60804141649q306c8681m1aa9c9efecc85e01@mail.gmail.com> On Sun, Apr 13, 2008 at 11:10 AM, Halvard Johnson wrote: > Sonnet: Tropical Forest with Monkeys > > When you take your monkeys fishing in the forest > it's important to remind them not to leave their fishing > poles behind. Animals, as we know, often have human > traits and characteristics, and vice versa. If they express > > fear of the forest, point out to them that the jungle is not > as deep as it once was. Farming and lumbering and strip- > mining have now seen to that. Have your monkeys express > their thoughts and fears in little balloons above their heads. > > Consider having them write little screenplays that, once home, > they can act in as well as direct and produce to share with > a wider audience. Bringing along journals and making entries > in them whenever they have a spare moment is never a bad idea. > > Monkeys, whether macaques or langurs or gibbons, all enjoy > trips to the forest. They always have a good time. > > > > Hal > > Halvard Johnson > ================ > halvard at earthlink.net > http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > http://www.hamiltonstone.org > http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~ Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org ~ http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning ~ http://www.fieralingue.it/documenti/mr_bondo.pdf ~ http://www.poetserv.org/jvc/home/index.html ~ http://www.flickr.com/photos/12364573 at N08/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cervantes.james at gmail.com Mon Apr 14 19:50:40 2008 From: cervantes.james at gmail.com (James Cervantes) Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2008 18:50:40 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Sonnet: Tropical Forest with Monkeys In-Reply-To: <9CDC0C27-6C91-44E5-ADA5-664DDBB7CF2A@earthlink.net> References: <9CDC0C27-6C91-44E5-ADA5-664DDBB7CF2A@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <648208b60804141650n6ebc236ew2dcd0536d44c06ec@mail.gmail.com> Oops. What I meant to say was, God, I enjoy a slice of life like this. Makes my tail curl. - Jim On Sun, Apr 13, 2008 at 11:10 AM, Halvard Johnson wrote: > Sonnet: Tropical Forest with Monkeys > > When you take your monkeys fishing in the forest > it's important to remind them not to leave their fishing > poles behind. Animals, as we know, often have human > traits and characteristics, and vice versa. If they express > > fear of the forest, point out to them that the jungle is not > as deep as it once was. Farming and lumbering and strip- > mining have now seen to that. Have your monkeys express > their thoughts and fears in little balloons above their heads. > > Consider having them write little screenplays that, once home, > they can act in as well as direct and produce to share with > a wider audience. Bringing along journals and making entries > in them whenever they have a spare moment is never a bad idea. > > Monkeys, whether macaques or langurs or gibbons, all enjoy > trips to the forest. They always have a good time. > > > > Hal > > Halvard Johnson > ================ > halvard at earthlink.net > http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > http://www.hamiltonstone.org > http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Mon Apr 14 19:53:47 2008 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2008 19:53:47 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Coop as Whit tonite Message-ID: <8CA6CA1EA6ABB11-14E0-3277@webmail-md02.sysops.aol.com> http://www.usatoday.com/life/television/news/2008-04-13-walt-whitman_N.htm Chris Cooper puts Walt Whitman's poetry into motion for PBS ? New Experience: Walt Whitman gave Chris Cooper a challenge: "Poetry is not something I've done before," he says. Yahoo! Buzz Digg Newsvine Reddit FacebookWhat's this?By Bill Keveney, USA TODAY Oscar-winning actor Chris Cooper has had great success speaking others' words, but he was a little nervous about his most recent role. That's because the author wasn't a screenwriter. It was Walt Whitman, from whose works Cooper reads in Walt Whitman, a PBS American Experience film (tonight, 9 ET/PT, times may vary). ? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Mon Apr 14 20:09:29 2008 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2008 20:09:29 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Another Whitman portrayer In-Reply-To: <8CA6CA1EA6ABB11-14E0-3277@webmail-md02.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CA6CA1EA6ABB11-14E0-3277@webmail-md02.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <8CA6CA41BA8BF8C-14E0-3358@webmail-md02.sysops.aol.com> http://www.unlaunchedvoices.com/ As it happens, yesterday in Canton CT I went to "Unlaunch'd Voices," a one-person?theatre piece?by Stephen Collins. It was very good. Collins seamlessly quotes Whitman's poetry, reminisces (as recorded by Horace Traubel)?and?recites?letters to and from Whitman?in the production. I heard Collins say afterwards that one his models for the?production was?"The Belle of Amherst"?performed Julie Harris.? It would be nice thing to expose students to. Or to feature?as part of?a poetry festival or conference. Collins is based in Massachusetts and can be reached at walt978 at aol.com. Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: jforjames at aol.com To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Mon, 14 Apr 2008 7:53 pm Subject: [New-Poetry] Coop as Whit tonite http://www.usatoday.com/life/television/news/2008-04-13-walt-whitman_N.htm Chris Cooper puts Walt Whitman's poetry into motion for PBS ? New Experience: Walt Whitman gave Chris Cooper a challenge: "Poetry is not something I've done before," he says. Yahoo! Buzz Digg Newsvine Reddit FacebookWhat's this?By Bill Keveney, USA TODAY Oscar-winning actor Chris Cooper has had great success speaking others' words, but he was a little nervous about his most recent role. That's because the author wasn't a screenwriter. It was Walt Whitman, from whose works Cooper reads in Walt Whitman, a PBS American Experience film (tonight, 9 ET/PT, times may vary). ? Get the MapQuest Toolbar, Maps, Traffic, Directions & More! _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Opus40-01 at opus40.org Mon Apr 14 20:30:18 2008 From: Opus40-01 at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2008 20:30:18 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Queen's English Society Demands Rhyme and Metre In-Reply-To: <200804142216.m3EMG2Dd027689@mail65c35.nsolutionszone.com> References: <200804142216.m3EMG2Dd027689@mail65c35.nsolutionszone.com> Message-ID: <4803F71A.1010708@opus40.org> Darn right! David Graham wrote: > Here's the sort of delightful story that the New Yorker used to run > under a headline like "There'll Always Be An England." > > http://books.guardian.co.uk/news/articles/0,,2273299,00.html > > > > ======================================== > David Graham > grahamd at ripon.edu > > Home Page: > http://web.mac.com/drjazz > > Poetry Library: > http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html > ========================================== > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ The moral is this: in American verse, The better you are, the pay is worse. --Corey Ford From Opus40-01 at opus40.org Mon Apr 14 20:33:04 2008 From: Opus40-01 at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2008 20:33:04 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] bob gruman In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4803F7C0.8090803@opus40.org> Geof's better, then? That's wonderful. Anny Ballardini wrote: > here is geof huth with bob gruman again: > http://dbqp.blogspot.com/2008/04/blog-post.html > > > Anny Ballardini > http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ > http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome > http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html > I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a > dancing star! > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ The moral is this: in American verse, The better you are, the pay is worse. --Corey Ford From jforjames at aol.com Mon Apr 14 20:35:55 2008 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2008 20:35:55 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] bob gruman In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8CA6CA7CCEAA8F7-14E0-3490@webmail-md02.sysops.aol.com> 'carchives': what a great concept. Sounds like something that should have been in scripts of the?'Road Warrior' series. Be watchful for RePo men though. I'm sure there's flat-bed tow truck circling Bob's block as we speak. Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: Anny Ballardini To: New Poetry Sent: Mon, 14 Apr 2008 6:16 pm Subject: [New-Poetry] bob gruman here is geof huth with bob gruman again: http://dbqp.blogspot.com/2008/04/blog-post.html ? ? Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Opus40-01 at opus40.org Mon Apr 14 20:41:55 2008 From: Opus40-01 at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2008 20:41:55 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Coop as Whit tonite In-Reply-To: <8CA6CA1EA6ABB11-14E0-3277@webmail-md02.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CA6CA1EA6ABB11-14E0-3277@webmail-md02.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <4803F9D3.9060905@opus40.org> I hate actors reading poetry, but I can't imagine Chris Cooper doing anything badly. I'll watch. jforjames at aol.com wrote: > http://www.usatoday.com/life/television/news/2008-04-13-walt-whitman_N.htm > Chris Cooper puts Walt Whitman's poetry into motion for PBS > > New Experience: Walt Whitman gave Chris Cooper a challenge: "Poetry is > not something I've done before," he says. > Yahoo! Buzz Digg Newsvine Reddit FacebookWhat's this?By Bill Keveney, > USA TODAY > Oscar-winning actor Chris Cooper has had great success speaking > others' words, but he was a little nervous about his most recent role. > That's because the author wasn't a screenwriter. It was Walt Whitman, > from whose works Cooper reads in Walt Whitman, a PBS American > Experience film (tonight, 9 ET/PT, times may vary). > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Get the MapQuest Toolbar > , Maps, > Traffic, Directions & More! > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ The moral is this: in American verse, The better you are, the pay is worse. --Corey Ford From grahamd at ripon.edu Mon Apr 14 20:46:49 2008 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2008 19:46:49 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Coop as Whit tonite In-Reply-To: <4803F9D3.9060905@opus40.org> References: <8CA6CA1EA6ABB11-14E0-3277@webmail-md02.sysops.aol.com> <4803F9D3.9060905@opus40.org> Message-ID: <200804150046.m3F0koid003827@mail21c35.nsolutionszone.com> On Apr 14, 2008, at 7:41 PM, TheOldMole wrote: > > I hate actors reading poetry, but I can't imagine Chris Cooper > doing anything badly. I'll watch. > ========================= Yes, Donald Hall writes somewhere that the problem is that actors try to bring out the meanings, while poets try to bring out the sounds. ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.mac.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Mon Apr 14 20:48:13 2008 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2008 20:48:13 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Queen's English Society Demands Rhyme and Metre In-Reply-To: <200804142216.m3EMG2Dd027689@mail65c35.nsolutionszone.com> References: <200804142216.m3EMG2Dd027689@mail65c35.nsolutionszone.com> Message-ID: <8CA6CA984A79828-14E0-352E@webmail-md02.sysops.aol.com> Here, here. Tut, tut..tsk, tsk. -----Original Message----- From: David Graham To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu & Views Sent: Mon, 14 Apr 2008 6:16 pm Subject: [New-Poetry] Queen's English Society Demands Rhyme and Metre Here's the sort of delightful story that the New Yorker used to run under a headline like "There'll Always Be An England." http://books.guardian.co.uk/news/articles/0,,2273299,00.html ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.mac.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== = _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Mon Apr 14 21:54:14 2008 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2008 20:54:14 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] bob gruman In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <48040AC6.2020108@nut-n-but.net> Harumpf. It's Bob Grumman with Geof Huth again at MY blog. --Bob Anny Ballardini wrote: > here is geof huth with bob gruman again: > http://dbqp.blogspot.com/2008/04/blog-post.html > > > Anny Ballardini > http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ > http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome > http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html > I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a > dancing star! > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Opus40-01 at opus40.org Mon Apr 14 21:31:02 2008 From: Opus40-01 at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2008 21:31:02 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Coop as Whit tonite In-Reply-To: <200804150046.m3F0koid003827@mail21c35.nsolutionszone.com> References: <8CA6CA1EA6ABB11-14E0-3277@webmail-md02.sysops.aol.com> <4803F9D3.9060905@opus40.org> <200804150046.m3F0koid003827@mail21c35.nsolutionszone.com> Message-ID: <48040556.10205@opus40.org> Poets may be there own worst audiences. I wrote two pieces, not even poems -- prose soliloquies, for a tribute to Marian Anderson. One was read by Phylicia Rashad, the other by Harry Belafonte. Belafonte essentially read the words, Rashad performed them. I loved what Belafonte did, squirmed a little at Rashad. Everyone I was with absolutely loved Rashad. Who's to say they were wrong and I was right? Besides me, I mean. David Graham wrote: > > > > On Apr 14, 2008, at 7:41 PM, TheOldMole wrote: >> I hate actors reading poetry, but I can't imagine Chris Cooper doing >> anything badly. I'll watch. >> > ========================= > > > > Yes, Donald Hall writes somewhere that the problem is that actors try > to bring out the meanings, while poets try to bring out the sounds. > > > ======================================== > David Graham > grahamd at ripon.edu > > Home Page: > http://web.mac.com/drjazz > > Poetry Library: > http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html > ========================================== > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ The moral is this: in American verse, The better you are, the pay is worse. --Corey Ford From grahamd at ripon.edu Mon Apr 14 21:37:13 2008 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2008 20:37:13 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Coop as Whit tonite In-Reply-To: <48040556.10205@opus40.org> References: <8CA6CA1EA6ABB11-14E0-3277@webmail-md02.sysops.aol.com> <4803F9D3.9060905@opus40.org> <200804150046.m3F0koid003827@mail21c35.nsolutionszone.com> <48040556.10205@opus40.org> Message-ID: <200804150137.m3F1bE22021614@mail71c35.nsolutionszone.com> Well, I say you're right, Tad, and that's all that counts. . . . ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.mac.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== On Apr 14, 2008, at 8:31 PM, TheOldMole wrote: > Poets may be there own worst audiences. I wrote two pieces, not > even poems -- prose soliloquies, for a tribute to Marian Anderson. > One was read by Phylicia Rashad, the other by Harry Belafonte. > Belafonte essentially read the words, Rashad performed them. I > loved what Belafonte did, squirmed a little at Rashad. Everyone I > was with absolutely loved Rashad. Who's to say they were wrong and > I was right? Besides me, I mean. > > David Graham wrote: >> >> >> >> On Apr 14, 2008, at 7:41 PM, TheOldMole wrote: >>> I hate actors reading poetry, but I can't imagine Chris Cooper >>> doing anything badly. I'll watch. >>> >> ========================= >> >> >> >> Yes, Donald Hall writes somewhere that the problem is that actors >> try to bring out the meanings, while poets try to bring out the >> sounds. >> >> >> ======================================== >> David Graham >> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Opus40-01 at opus40.org Mon Apr 14 22:27:18 2008 From: Opus40-01 at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2008 22:27:18 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Coop as Whit tonite In-Reply-To: <200804150137.m3F1bE22021614@mail71c35.nsolutionszone.com> References: <8CA6CA1EA6ABB11-14E0-3277@webmail-md02.sysops.aol.com> <4803F9D3.9060905@opus40.org> <200804150046.m3F0koid003827@mail21c35.nsolutionszone.com> <48040556.10205@opus40.org> <200804150137.m3F1bE22021614@mail71c35.nsolutionszone.com> Message-ID: <48041286.5080602@opus40.org> Really enjoying the Whitman show. David Graham wrote: > Well, I say you're right, Tad, and that's all that counts. . . . > > > ======================================== > David Graham > grahamd at ripon.edu > > Home Page: > http://web.mac.com/drjazz > > Poetry Library: > http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html > ========================================== > > > > > On Apr 14, 2008, at 8:31 PM, TheOldMole wrote: >> Poets may be there own worst audiences. I wrote two pieces, not even >> poems -- prose soliloquies, for a tribute to Marian Anderson. One was >> read by Phylicia Rashad, the other by Harry Belafonte. Belafonte >> essentially read the words, Rashad performed them. I loved what >> Belafonte did, squirmed a little at Rashad. Everyone I was with >> absolutely loved Rashad. Who's to say they were wrong and I was >> right? Besides me, I mean. >> >> David Graham wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> On Apr 14, 2008, at 7:41 PM, TheOldMole wrote: >>>> I hate actors reading poetry, but I can't imagine Chris Cooper >>>> doing anything badly. I'll watch. >>>> >>> ========================= >>> >>> >>> >>> Yes, Donald Hall writes somewhere that the problem is that actors >>> try to bring out the meanings, while poets try to bring out the sounds. >>> >>> >>> ======================================== >>> David Graham >>> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ The moral is this: in American verse, The better you are, the pay is worse. --Corey Ford From david.bircumshaw at ntlworld.com Tue Apr 15 02:40:49 2008 From: david.bircumshaw at ntlworld.com (David Bircumshaw) Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 07:40:49 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Queen's English Society Demands Rhyme and Metre In-Reply-To: <8CA6CA984A79828-14E0-352E@webmail-md02.sysops.aol.com> References: <200804142216.m3EMG2Dd027689@mail65c35.nsolutionszone.com> <8CA6CA984A79828-14E0-352E@webmail-md02.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <48044DF1.60907@ntlworld.com> The story also made the BBC Radio 4's news programmes, with Michael Schmidt and someone from the Queen's English Society arguing it out nationwide on the prime time air. (I must note that the QES shoots itself in its own (formal) foot by including rhyme as a necessary qualification for anything to be called poetry. Its amusing to see Motion and Schmidt (of all people) cast in the role of subversives though (pun intended) ) Best -- David Bircumshaw Website and A Chide's Alphabet http://homepage.ntlworld.com/david.bircumshaw/ The Animal Subsides http://www.arrowheadpress.co.uk/books/animal.html Leicester Poetry Society: http://www.poetryleicester.co.uk From jfq at myuw.net Tue Apr 15 03:24:07 2008 From: jfq at myuw.net (Jason Quackenbush) Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 00:24:07 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Queen's English Society Demands Rhyme and Metre In-Reply-To: <48044DF1.60907@ntlworld.com> References: <200804142216.m3EMG2Dd027689@mail65c35.nsolutionszone.com> <8CA6CA984A79828-14E0-352E@webmail-md02.sysops.aol.com> <48044DF1.60907@ntlworld.com> Message-ID: i wondered about that. do they really deny that blank verse is poetry? On Apr 14, 2008, at 11:40 PM, David Bircumshaw wrote: > The story also made the BBC Radio 4's news programmes, with Michael > Schmidt and someone from the Queen's English Society arguing it out > nationwide on the prime time air. > > (I must note that the QES shoots itself in its own (formal) foot by > including rhyme as a necessary qualification for anything to be > called poetry. Its amusing to see Motion and Schmidt (of all > people) cast in the role of subversives though (pun intended) ) > > Best > > -- > > David Bircumshaw > Website and A Chide's Alphabet http://homepage.ntlworld.com/ > david.bircumshaw/ > The Animal Subsides http://www.arrowheadpress.co.uk/books/animal.html > Leicester Poetry Society: http://www.poetryleicester.co.uk > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From anny.ballardini at tin.it Tue Apr 15 03:43:19 2008 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 09:43:19 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] bob gruman In-Reply-To: <8CA6CA7CCEAA8F7-14E0-3490@webmail-md02.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CA6CA7CCEAA8F7-14E0-3490@webmail-md02.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: this is rap or concrete (from cement) poetry: great carchives concept like scripts in watchful road warrior RePo flat-bed tow truck circle black block speak -spoke sounds ----- Original Message ----- From: jforjames at aol.com To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 2008 2:35 AM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] bob gruman 'carchives': what a great concept. Sounds like something that should have been in scripts of the 'Road Warrior' series. Be watchful for RePo men though. I'm sure there's flat-bed tow truck circling Bob's block as we speak. Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: Anny Ballardini To: New Poetry Sent: Mon, 14 Apr 2008 6:16 pm Subject: [New-Poetry] bob gruman here is geof huth with bob gruman again: http://dbqp.blogspot.com/2008/04/blog-post.html Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Get the MapQuest Toolbar, Maps, Traffic, Directions & More! ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.13/1377 - Release Date: 4/14/2008 9:26 AM -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at tin.it Tue Apr 15 05:34:40 2008 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 11:34:40 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] bob grumMan In-Reply-To: References: <8CA6CA7CCEAA8F7-14E0-3490@webmail-md02.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: bob gruMMan sorry about that, anny -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Tue Apr 15 07:43:25 2008 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 06:43:25 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] bob gruman In-Reply-To: <8CA6CA7CCEAA8F7-14E0-3490@webmail-md02.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CA6CA7CCEAA8F7-14E0-3490@webmail-md02.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <480494DD.6020905@nut-n-but.net> > 'carchives': what a great concept. Sounds like something that should > have been in scripts of the 'Road Warrior' series. > Be watchful for RePo men though. I'm sure there's flat-bed tow truck > circling Bob's block as we speak. > > Finnegan But, as I've argued with Geof, "carchives" is a stupid word, although--for some idiotic reason, an accepted usage. Geof clings to it. To me it's "carchive." (He and I argue about stuff like that all the time. He is, indeed, fine, physically--but wouldn't do the house-cleaning he usually does for me when he visits because under doctor's orders not to exert himself.) --Bob > > -----Original Message----- > From: Anny Ballardini > To: New Poetry > Sent: Mon, 14 Apr 2008 6:16 pm > Subject: [New-Poetry] bob gruman > > here is geof huth with bob gruman again: > http://dbqp.blogspot.com/2008/04/blog-post.html > > > Anny Ballardini > http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ > http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome > http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html > I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a > dancing star! > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Get the MapQuest Toolbar > , Maps, > Traffic, Directions & More! > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From GrahamD at ripon.edu Tue Apr 15 09:19:47 2008 From: GrahamD at ripon.edu (Graham, David) Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 08:19:47 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] RE: Queen's English Society Demands Rhyme and Metre References: <200804142216.m3EMG2Dd027689@mail65c35.nsolutionszone.com><8CA6CA984A79828-14E0-352E@webmail-md02.sysops.aol.com> <48044DF1.60907@ntlworld.com> Message-ID: <30CA3ED510E3BE4C9E3C15ADC8603F69A8D9E3@URANIUM.ripon.college> Yes, there's not much to do but sit back and admire the breathtaking nature of their argument. Takes some nerve to toss out Paradise Lost as "not poetry." ==================================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ==================================================== -----Original Message----- (I must note that the QES shoots itself in its own (formal) foot by including rhyme as a necessary qualification for anything to be called poetry. Its amusing to see Motion and Schmidt (of all people) cast in the role of subversives though (pun intended) ) Best -- David Bircumshaw -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/ms-tnef Size: 3072 bytes Desc: not available URL: From david.weinstock at gmail.com Tue Apr 15 09:44:09 2008 From: david.weinstock at gmail.com (David Weinstock) Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 09:44:09 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] RE: Queen's English Society Demands Rhyme and Metre In-Reply-To: <30CA3ED510E3BE4C9E3C15ADC8603F69A8D9E3@URANIUM.ripon.college> References: <200804142216.m3EMG2Dd027689@mail65c35.nsolutionszone.com> <8CA6CA984A79828-14E0-352E@webmail-md02.sysops.aol.com> <48044DF1.60907@ntlworld.com> <30CA3ED510E3BE4C9E3C15ADC8603F69A8D9E3@URANIUM.ripon.college> Message-ID: <437b1e3a0804150644l5956a1b7ua47be47d10874083@mail.gmail.com> In my classes and workshops, I have forbidden the "definition of a poem" question as a waste of time and an invitation to violence. What poetry DOES, not what it IS, is a better question. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at tin.it Tue Apr 15 13:02:54 2008 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 19:02:54 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Anny Ballardini & Henry Gould read in Rhode Island Message-ID: Anny Ballardini & Henry Gould read in Rhode Island Monday, April 21st, 6 pm Main Library, Roger Williams University One Old Ferry Rd, Bristol, RI Wednesday, April 23rd, 3-5 pm. With Peter S. Thompson John Hay Library Brown University 20 Prospect St, Providence Anny Ballardini, Henry Gould and Peter S. Thompson (on Wednesday) will read their own poetry, and also read and discuss Ms. Ballardini's translation (into Italian) of Mr. Gould's long poem, In RI. Ms. Ballardini's visit to the U.S. & presentation sponsored by the Creative Writing Program of Roger Williams University. Free. Refreshments. It goes without saying that I would love to meet as many as I can of you all. Terrified by the reading aspect, but thrilled by the idea of getting to American shores, Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ATambellini01 at aol.com Tue Apr 15 13:07:09 2008 From: ATambellini01 at aol.com (ATambellini01 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 13:07:09 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Anny Ballardini & Henry Gould read in Rhode Island Message-ID: Anny, How great to know that you will be here...we have a program in NY on the 22 and 23 of April but if you stay longer we are in the Boston area....let us know something and we can arrange to meet you. Aldo **************It's Tax Time! Get tips, forms and advice on AOL Money & Finance. (http://money.aol.com/tax?NCID=aolcmp00300000002850) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at tin.it Tue Apr 15 13:14:05 2008 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 19:14:05 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Anny Ballardini & Henry Gould read in Rhode Island In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: How very nice, thank you. I will leave on Saturday April 26. ----- Original Message ----- From: ATambellini01 at aol.com To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 2008 7:07 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Anny Ballardini & Henry Gould read in Rhode Island Anny, How great to know that you will be here...we have a program in NY on the 22 and 23 of April but if you stay longer we are in the Boston area....let us know something and we can arrange to meet you. Aldo ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ It's Tax Time! Get tips, forms and advice on AOL Money & Finance. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.13/1377 - Release Date: 4/14/2008 9:26 AM -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Tue Apr 15 15:45:40 2008 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 15:45:40 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Kumin profile Message-ID: <8CA6D486B4A0181-89C-BDD@webmail-mf05.sysops.aol.com> http://www.csmonitor.com/2008/0415/p13s01-bogn.html Maxine Kumin, 'Writing is my salvation' Bouncing back after an accident, the Pulitzer Prize-winning poet has renewed passion for 'poems that matter.' By Elizabeth Lund from the April 15, 2008 edition Page 1 of 2 Three weeks ago, winter still clung to central New Hampshire, where poet Maxine Kumin and her husband, Victor, live on Pobiz Farm. The sky was gray, snow banks stood more than three feet tall, and the couple's long, dirt driveway was covered with several inches of white from a recent storm. A visiting reporter had to abandon her car 3/10s of a mile from the farmhouse. Maxine Kumin, whose awards include the Pulitzer Prize, noted the sky after leading her visitor into the living room. Then she turned her attention to Virgil, her energetic hound-mix, who jumped onto the sofa, onto her lap, and then onto her guest's lap. "Virgil has no manners," she explained with a shake of her head. "Pretend he isn't here; he's an invisible dog." The scene illustrated so much about Kumin, whose poems include many of the strays she has saved and whose spirit seems as indomitable as that of her "invisible" hound, -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From screwzbaran at gmail.com Tue Apr 15 16:17:46 2008 From: screwzbaran at gmail.com (Suzanne Baran) Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 13:17:46 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Kumin profile In-Reply-To: <8CA6D486B4A0181-89C-BDD@webmail-mf05.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CA6D486B4A0181-89C-BDD@webmail-mf05.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <2d5ffa0b0804151317je7ac2ccke6db3e6981568785@mail.gmail.com> So glad you sent this around. She's one of my favorites. There's a passage I quote from her often: "Our daughters and sons have burst from the marionette show leaving a tangle of strings and gone into the unlit audience." - Maxine Kumin On Tue, Apr 15, 2008 at 12:45 PM, wrote: > http://www.csmonitor.com/2008/0415/p13s01-bogn.html > Maxine Kumin, 'Writing is my salvation' > Bouncing back after an accident, the Pulitzer Prize-winning poet has > renewed passion for 'poems that matter.' > By Elizabeth Lund > from the April 15, 2008 edition > > Page 1 of 2 > Three weeks ago, winter still clung to central New Hampshire, where poet > Maxine Kumin and her husband, Victor, live on Pobiz Farm. The sky was gray, > snow banks stood more than three feet tall, and the couple's long, dirt > driveway was covered with several inches of white from a recent storm. A > visiting reporter had to abandon her car 3/10s of a mile from the farmhouse. > > > Maxine Kumin, whose awards include the Pulitzer Prize, noted the sky after > leading her visitor into the living room. Then she turned her attention to > Virgil, her energetic hound-mix, who jumped onto the sofa, onto her lap, and > then onto her guest's lap. "Virgil has no manners," she explained with a > shake of her head. "Pretend he isn't here; he's an invisible dog." > > The scene illustrated so much about Kumin, whose poems include many of the > strays she has saved and whose spirit seems as indomitable as that of her > "invisible" hound, > ------------------------------ > Get the MapQuest Toolbar, > Maps, Traffic, Directions & More! > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- "When you devote your life to achieving your goal, you will not be bothered by shallow criticism. In fact nothing important can be accomplished if you allow yourself to be swayed by some trifling matter, always looking over your shoulder and wondering what others are saying or thinking. The key to achievement is to move forward resolutely along your chosen path." Daily Encouragement - Daisaku Ikeda -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Tue Apr 15 19:24:26 2008 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 18:24:26 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] bob grumMan In-Reply-To: References: <8CA6CA7CCEAA8F7-14E0-3490@webmail-md02.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <4805392A.2040205@nut-n-but.net> Anny Ballardini wrote: > bob gruMMan > sorry about that, > anny > Hey, Any, you can drop an em from my name any time, but don't put Huth before me!!! --Bob G. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From elemenope_productions at hotmail.com Tue Apr 15 18:41:29 2008 From: elemenope_productions at hotmail.com (R Dillon) Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 22:41:29 +0000 Subject: [New-Poetry] Ballardini in America! Message-ID: Must send my regrets. Had this event been advertised some months ago, I would have attended. By an odd coincidence, I willl be covering the, "Insiders UFO Conference," hosted by Steve Bassett, the only registered lobbier in Washington for the UFO/ET issue, and George Noory, the talk show host, Art Bell's successor. In my humble opinion, anyone who can get to this reading should make every effort to do so because it will be an event of historical importance. R.E. Dillon > Message: 9> Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 19:02:54 +0200> From: "Anny Ballardini" > Subject: [New-Poetry] Anny Ballardini & Henry Gould read in Rhode> > Anny Ballardini & Henry Gould read in Rhode Island> > Monday, April 21st, 6 pm> Main Library, Roger Williams University> One Old Ferry Rd, Bristol, RI> > Wednesday, April 23rd, 3-5 pm. With Peter S. Thompson> John Hay Library> Brown University> 20 Prospect St, Providence> > Anny Ballardini, Henry Gould and Peter S. Thompson (on Wednesday) will read their own poetry, and also read and discuss Ms. Ballardini's translation (into Italian) of Mr. Gould's long poem, In RI. Ms. Ballardini's visit to the U.S. & presentation sponsored by the Creative Writing Program of Roger Williams University.> > Free. Refreshments. > _________________________________________________________________ More immediate than e-mail? Get instant access with Windows Live Messenger. http://www.windowslive.com/messenger/overview.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_Refresh_instantaccess_042008 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames at aol.com Tue Apr 15 19:29:20 2008 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 19:29:20 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Threat Level Update Message-ID: Homeland Security Announces Refined Threat Levels Threat Level: Gray A gloomy terrorist is a dangerous terrorist. The clouds come low over the horizon, turn into a strafing rain. Refrain from listening to poets. Threat Level: White Even wearing penny loafers and sweaters they blend in easily. Regard with suspicion a penchant for changing sheets, teeth that blind. Threat Level: Chartreuse They will be wearing dark glasses and shirts or blouses of a most unseemly color. Standing near them poses a radiation risk to the unborn. Threat Level: Mauve Grandmotherly and overdressed, there is much that can be hidden within those folds of clothes and flesh. Say your prayers when the purse is unclasped. Threat Level: Neon Not a color per se, but an attitude. A unwillingness to respect sleep. At any moment they might pull the tap, fondle the waitress and do an indecipherable dance. **************It's Tax Time! Get tips, forms and advice on AOL Money & Finance. (http://money.aol.com/tax?NCID=aolcmp00300000002850) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From david.weinstock at gmail.com Tue Apr 15 20:32:01 2008 From: david.weinstock at gmail.com (David Weinstock) Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 20:32:01 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Threat Level Update In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <437b1e3a0804151732k7a9ea1b1p9eb9d089a1b6dcd6@mail.gmail.com> Nice one, James! On Tue, Apr 15, 2008 at 7:29 PM, wrote: > Homeland Security Announces Refined Threat Levels > > Threat Level: Gray > > A gloomy terrorist is a dangerous terrorist. > The clouds come low over the horizon, turn > into a strafing rain. Refrain from listening to poets. > > > Threat Level: White > > Even wearing penny loafers and sweaters > they blend in easily. Regard with suspicion > a penchant for changing sheets, teeth that blind. > > > Threat Level: Chartreuse > > They will be wearing dark glasses and shirts > or blouses of a most unseemly color. Standing near > them poses a radiation risk to the unborn. > > > Threat Level: Mauve > > Grandmotherly and overdressed, there is much > that can be hidden within those folds of clothes and flesh. > Say your prayers when the purse is unclasped. > > > Threat Level: Neon > > Not a color per se, but an attitude. A unwillingness > to respect sleep. At any moment they might pull the tap, > fondle the waitress and do an indecipherable dance. > > > > > > ------------------------------ > It's Tax Time! Get tips, forms and advice on AOL Money & Finance > . > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- .......................................................... DAVID WEINSTOCK 240 Woodland Park, Middlebury, VT 05753 Home: 802-388-6939 Cell: 802-989-4314 AIM:DavidinMbury GoogleTalk: david.weinstock NetMeeting Videoconference available -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From GRAHAMD at RIPON.EDU Tue Apr 15 21:15:56 2008 From: GRAHAMD at RIPON.EDU (David Graham) Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 20:15:56 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Ashes, ashes, we all fall down Message-ID: <200804160115.m3G1Fudt005477@mail66c35.nsolutionszone.com> As part of National Too Much Poetry Month, NewPo is pleased to offer its first Ashbery quiz. Ready? Here's a poem from Mr. Ashbery's most recent book: The Inchcape Rock Prop up the "meaning," take the trash out, the dog for a walk, give the old balls a scratch, apologize for three things by Friday--oh quiet noumenon of my soul, this is it, right? You lost the key and the answer is inside somewhere, and where are you going to breathe? The box is shut that knew you and all your friends, voices that could have spoken in your behalf ... Why, what did you want me to do with them? Half a document is sufficient to this weather, wild time, excrescence, more. Rumors sift across a bald apologia. The feet are here. --John Ashbery. A Worldly Country. HarperCollins, 2007. _______________________ Which of the following descriptions best captures the above poem's theme? A) A poem must not mean but be. B) The poet imagines himself dying, and then dead, enclosed in a coffin from which his spirit has departed. C) Life is a ravishing disappointment, most of the time, but oh well. D) Getting old is a real bitch, but the supreme fiction never dies. E) Even our closest friendships are riddled with rumors, missed connections, and contradictory memories. Extra credit: One of the above descriptions was actually written by a prominent critic. Identify which one, and for extra-extra credit, name the critic. ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.mac.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cstroffo at earthlink.net Tue Apr 15 21:21:58 2008 From: cstroffo at earthlink.net (Chris Stroffolino) Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 18:21:58 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Ashes, ashes, we all fall down In-Reply-To: <200804160115.m3G1Fudt005477@mail66c35.nsolutionszone.com> References: <200804160115.m3G1Fudt005477@mail66c35.nsolutionszone.com> Message-ID: <88FBC284-165A-4999-8777-3EEC7A098A15@earthlink.net> thanks for the quiz Where's "All Of The Above" as a question choice? the mention of "supreme fiction" makes me want to say Harold Bloom (but I don't see him necessarily saying 'old is a real bitch') Chris On Apr 15, 2008, at 6:15 PM, David Graham wrote: > As part of National Too Much Poetry Month, NewPo is pleased to > offer its first Ashbery quiz. > > Ready? > > Here's a poem from Mr. Ashbery's most recent book: > > The Inchcape Rock > > Prop up the "meaning," > take the trash out, the dog for a walk, > give the old balls a scratch, apologize for three things > by Friday--oh quiet noumenon > of my soul, this is it, right? > You lost the key and the answer is inside > somewhere, and where are you going to breathe? > The box is shut that knew you > and all your friends, > voices that could have spoken in your behalf ... > > Why, what did you want me to do with them? > Half a document is sufficient to this > weather, wild time, excrescence, more. > Rumors sift across a bald apologia. > The feet are here. > > --John Ashbery. A Worldly Country. HarperCollins, 2007. > _______________________ > > Which of the following descriptions best captures the above poem's > theme? > > A) A poem must not mean but be. > > B) The poet imagines himself dying, and then dead, enclosed in a > coffin from which his spirit has departed. > > C) Life is a ravishing disappointment, most of the time, but oh well. > > D) Getting old is a real bitch, but the supreme fiction never dies. > > E) Even our closest friendships are riddled with rumors, missed > connections, and contradictory memories. > > > Extra credit: > > One of the above descriptions was actually written by a prominent > critic. Identify which one, and for extra-extra credit, name the > critic. > ======================================== > David Graham > grahamd at ripon.edu > > Home Page: > http://web.mac.com/drjazz > > Poetry Library: > http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html > ========================================== > > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com Tue Apr 15 21:23:47 2008 From: robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com (Robin Hamilton) Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2008 02:23:47 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Ashes, ashes, we all fall down References: <200804160115.m3G1Fudt005477@mail66c35.nsolutionszone.com> Message-ID: <018f01c89f60$8594fdf0$4101a8c0@nowhereddc257a> As part of National Too Much Poetry Month, NewPo is pleased to offer its first Ashbery quiz. Which of the following descriptions best captures the above poem's theme? A) A poem must not mean but be. Archibald Macleish, "Ars Poetica" [verbatim] B) The poet imagines himself dying, and then dead, enclosed in a coffin from which his spirit has departed. Poe, anyone? C) Life is a ravishing disappointment, most of the time, but oh well. Keats, "Ode to a Postmodernist Urn" D) Getting old is a real bitch, but the supreme fiction never dies. Postumous Wallace Stevens E) Even our closest friendships are riddled with rumors, missed connections, and contradictory memories. W.H.Auden. Or possibly Dana Gioia RH -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Opus40-01 at opus40.org Tue Apr 15 21:40:32 2008 From: Opus40-01 at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 21:40:32 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Threat Level Update In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <48055910.5040603@opus40.org> Yours, Jim? This is wonderful. JforJames at aol.com wrote: > Homeland Security Announces Refined Threat Levels > > Threat Level: Gray > > A gloomy terrorist is a dangerous terrorist. > The clouds come low over the horizon, turn > into a strafing rain. Refrain from listening to poets. > > > Threat Level: White > > Even wearing penny loafers and sweaters > they blend in easily. Regard with suspicion > a penchant for changing sheets, teeth that blind. > > > Threat Level: Chartreuse > > They will be wearing dark glasses and shirts > or blouses of a most unseemly color. Standing near > them poses a radiation risk to the unborn. > > > Threat Level: Mauve > > Grandmotherly and overdressed, there is much > that can be hidden within those folds of clothes and flesh. > Say your prayers when the purse is unclasped. > > > Threat Level: Neon > > Not a color per se, but an attitude. A unwillingness > to respect sleep. At any moment they might pull the tap, > fondle the waitress and do an indecipherable dance. > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > It's Tax Time! Get tips, forms and advice on AOL Money & Finance > . > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ The moral is this: in American verse, The better you are, the pay is worse. --Corey Ford From Opus40-01 at opus40.org Tue Apr 15 21:44:59 2008 From: Opus40-01 at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 21:44:59 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Ashes, ashes, we all fall down In-Reply-To: <200804160115.m3G1Fudt005477@mail66c35.nsolutionszone.com> References: <200804160115.m3G1Fudt005477@mail66c35.nsolutionszone.com> Message-ID: <48055A1B.1020501@opus40.org> :Logan, D, and god help me, even with the pretentious diction, I'd vote for B. This is great, David. You should expand it into something. David Graham wrote: > As part of National Too Much Poetry Month, NewPo is pleased to offer > its first Ashbery quiz. > > Ready? > > Here's a poem from Mr. Ashbery's most recent book: > > *The Inchcape Rock* > > Prop up the "meaning," > take the trash out, the dog for a walk, > give the old balls a scratch, apologize for three things > by Friday--oh quiet noumenon > of my soul, this is it, right? > You lost the key and the answer is inside > somewhere, and where are you going to breathe? > The box is shut that knew you > and all your friends, > voices that could have spoken in your behalf ... > > Why, what did you want me to do with them? > Half a document is sufficient to this > weather, wild time, excrescence, more. > Rumors sift across a bald apologia. > The feet are here. > > --John Ashbery. /A Worldly Countr/y. HarperCollins, 2007. > _______________________ > > Which of the following descriptions best captures the above poem's > theme? > > A) A poem must not mean but be. > > B) The poet imagines himself dying, and then dead, enclosed in a > coffin from which his spirit has departed. > > C) Life is a ravishing disappointment, most of the time, but oh well. > > D) Getting old is a real bitch, but the supreme fiction never dies. > > E) Even our closest friendships are riddled with rumors, missed > connections, and contradictory memories. > > > Extra credit: > > One of the above descriptions was actually written by a prominent > critic. Identify which one, and for extra-extra credit, name the > critic. > ======================================== > David Graham > grahamd at ripon.edu > > Home Page: > http://web.mac.com/drjazz > > Poetry Library: > http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html > ========================================== > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ The moral is this: in American verse, The better you are, the pay is worse. --Corey Ford From robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com Tue Apr 15 21:52:03 2008 From: robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com (Robin Hamilton) Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2008 02:52:03 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Ashes, ashes, we all fall down References: <200804160115.m3G1Fudt005477@mail66c35.nsolutionszone.com> <88FBC284-165A-4999-8777-3EEC7A098A15@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <01c101c89f64$77fe2730$4101a8c0@nowhereddc257a> the mention of "supreme fiction" makes me want to say Harold Bloom (but I don't see him necessarily saying 'old is a real bitch') Chris ******************* Both: C) Life is a ravishing disappointment, most of the time, but oh well. and ... D) Getting old is a real bitch, but the supreme fiction never dies. ... involve register-jumping. Is this more Brit than USAmerican? (Dorothy Parker uses it, and don marquis, but hey, who pays attention to them?) My ear quivers a little at "Getting old is a real bitch" -- a real bitch? Um. Perhaps, "Getting old is the [sic] real bitch." There's a mush of possible adjective/adverb/verb usages there. It's not that cant [especially] and slang don't have rules, but that the rules tend to be distinctly slippery. A Gallus Whore ("Gallows Thief" would be more polite, but over-egging the pudding. As Bernard Cornwell did in the title to one of his novels, basing the cant there, not surprisingly given the catastrophic mis-steps he makes, on James Hardy "thrice transported" Vaux. I mean, you could have a term of admiration couched as "a gallus thief". But a gallows thief is simply tautological. Actually, even "gallus whore" (like Peddler's Greek in a lunatic footnote which has even reached the Third Arden Edition of As You Like It) is slightly off. *** "Gallows whore", yes, that's actually extant in some broadside ballads, but by the time the term transmogrifies (in the West of Scotland and America) to "gallus", it has slightly shifted meaning as well as orthography and/or pronunciation. Just a pedantic little aside. The Putative Author of Morts and Blowens.) *** Bob: The ear of that aside is dedicated to you. Have you noticed it? I've even seriously thought of posting a bad-tempered comment on it to SHAKSPER, ever since I identified the source sometime in the 1850s. But so much trouble, especially given the way SHAKSPER seems to be going at the moment. Robin -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at tin.it Wed Apr 16 00:30:09 2008 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2008 06:30:09 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Ballardini in America! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thank you Richard Dillon. Since every movement of the universe and of the beings therein are of historical importance, then also our tiny steps do have a meaning. Congratulations on your indefatigable challenge to show we are not alone in our loneliness. My best wishes, Anny ----- Original Message ----- From: R Dillon To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2008 12:41 AM Subject: [New-Poetry] Ballardini in America! Must send my regrets. Had this event been advertised some months ago, I would have attended. By an odd coincidence, I willl be covering the, "Insiders UFO Conference," hosted by Steve Bassett, the only registered lobbier in Washington for the UFO/ET issue, and George Noory, the talk show host, Art Bell's successor. In my humble opinion, anyone who can get to this reading should make every effort to do so because it will be an event of historical importance. R.E. Dillon > Message: 9 > Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 19:02:54 +0200 > From: "Anny Ballardini" > Subject: [New-Poetry] Anny Ballardini & Henry Gould read in Rhode > > Anny Ballardini & Henry Gould read in Rhode Island > > Monday, April 21st, 6 pm > Main Library, Roger Williams University > One Old Ferry Rd, Bristol, RI > > Wednesday, April 23rd, 3-5 pm. With Peter S. Thompson > John Hay Library > Brown University > 20 Prospect St, Providence > > Anny Ballardini, Henry Gould and Peter S. Thompson (on Wednesday) will read their own poetry, and also read and discuss Ms. Ballardini's translation (into Italian) of Mr. Gould's long poem, In RI. Ms. Ballardini's visit to the U.S. & presentation sponsored by the Creative Writing Program of Roger Williams University. > > Free. Refreshments. > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at tin.it Wed Apr 16 00:33:48 2008 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2008 06:33:48 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] bob grumMan In-Reply-To: <4805392A.2040205@nut-n-but.net> References: <8CA6CA7CCEAA8F7-14E0-3490@webmail-md02.sysops.aol.com> <4805392A.2040205@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <83096A9425834B048DE20D15E2645F7F@AnnyPC> Ms are more important than Ns (they have three legs), you cannot drop any in my name otherwise the lack of importance tied to my name becomes too obvious. Oh, you mean seniority first? Yours, any ----- Original Message ----- From: Bob Grumman To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2008 1:24 AM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] bob grumMan Anny Ballardini wrote: bob gruMMan sorry about that, anny Hey, Any, you can drop an em from my name any time, but don't put Huth before me!!! --Bob G. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From david.bircumshaw at ntlworld.com Wed Apr 16 02:33:16 2008 From: david.bircumshaw at ntlworld.com (David Bircumshaw) Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2008 07:33:16 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Ashes, ashes, we all fall down In-Reply-To: <200804160115.m3G1Fudt005477@mail66c35.nsolutionszone.com> References: <200804160115.m3G1Fudt005477@mail66c35.nsolutionszone.com> Message-ID: <48059DAC.7080203@ntlworld.com> Getting old is a real bitch, but it's time to take it for a walk . -- David Bircumshaw Website and A Chide's Alphabet http://homepage.ntlworld.com/david.bircumshaw/ The Animal Subsides http://www.arrowheadpress.co.uk/books/animal.html Leicester Poetry Society: http://www.poetryleicester.co.uk From cstroffo at earthlink.net Wed Apr 16 03:11:59 2008 From: cstroffo at earthlink.net (Chris Stroffolino) Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2008 00:11:59 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] RAshes we down In-Reply-To: <48059DAC.7080203@ntlworld.com> References: <200804160115.m3G1Fudt005477@mail66c35.nsolutionszone.com> <48059DAC.7080203@ntlworld.com> Message-ID: <064D4CE0-B327-42D7-9005-CEA3BD96ADD2@earthlink.net> getting old is a real bitch, but her bark is worse than her bite (a ruff draft) On Apr 15, 2008, at 11:33 PM, David Bircumshaw wrote: > Getting old is a real bitch, but it's time to take it for a walk > . > > -- > > David Bircumshaw > Website and A Chide's Alphabet http://homepage.ntlworld.com/ > david.bircumshaw/ > The Animal Subsides http://www.arrowheadpress.co.uk/books/animal.html > Leicester Poetry Society: http://www.poetryleicester.co.uk > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From lsgrimes at stonegulch.com Wed Apr 16 07:51:31 2008 From: lsgrimes at stonegulch.com (Linda Sue Grimes) Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2008 06:51:31 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Ashes, ashes, we all fall down References: <200804160115.m3G1Fudt005477@mail66c35.nsolutionszone.com> Message-ID: <003401c89fb8$37431080$0201a8c0@LindaSue> B written by Stephen Burt lsg ----- Original Message ----- From: David Graham To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu & Views Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 2008 8:15 PM Subject: [New-Poetry] Ashes, ashes, we all fall down As part of National Too Much Poetry Month, NewPo is pleased to offer its first Ashbery quiz. Ready? Here's a poem from Mr. Ashbery's most recent book: The Inchcape Rock Prop up the "meaning," take the trash out, the dog for a walk, give the old balls a scratch, apologize for three things by Friday--oh quiet noumenon of my soul, this is it, right? You lost the key and the answer is inside somewhere, and where are you going to breathe? The box is shut that knew you and all your friends, voices that could have spoken in your behalf ... Why, what did you want me to do with them? Half a document is sufficient to this weather, wild time, excrescence, more. Rumors sift across a bald apologia. The feet are here. --John Ashbery. A Worldly Country. HarperCollins, 2007. _______________________ Which of the following descriptions best captures the above poem's theme? A) A poem must not mean but be. B) The poet imagines himself dying, and then dead, enclosed in a coffin from which his spirit has departed. C) Life is a ravishing disappointment, most of the time, but oh well. D) Getting old is a real bitch, but the supreme fiction never dies. E) Even our closest friendships are riddled with rumors, missed connections, and contradictory memories. Extra credit: One of the above descriptions was actually written by a prominent critic. Identify which one, and for extra-extra credit, name the critic. ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.mac.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at tin.it Wed Apr 16 08:28:39 2008 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2008 14:28:39 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Ashes, ashes, we all fall down In-Reply-To: <003401c89fb8$37431080$0201a8c0@LindaSue> References: <200804160115.m3G1Fudt005477@mail66c35.nsolutionszone.com> <003401c89fb8$37431080$0201a8c0@LindaSue> Message-ID: <4FD4BDB272DD4BF38F97644B82B8C0EC@AnnyPC> C) ----- Original Message ----- From: Linda Sue Grimes To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2008 1:51 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Ashes, ashes, we all fall down B written by Stephen Burt lsg ----- Original Message ----- From: David Graham To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu & Views Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 2008 8:15 PM Subject: [New-Poetry] Ashes, ashes, we all fall down As part of National Too Much Poetry Month, NewPo is pleased to offer its first Ashbery quiz. Ready? Here's a poem from Mr. Ashbery's most recent book: The Inchcape Rock Prop up the "meaning," take the trash out, the dog for a walk, give the old balls a scratch, apologize for three things by Friday--oh quiet noumenon of my soul, this is it, right? You lost the key and the answer is inside somewhere, and where are you going to breathe? The box is shut that knew you and all your friends, voices that could have spoken in your behalf ... Why, what did you want me to do with them? Half a document is sufficient to this weather, wild time, excrescence, more. Rumors sift across a bald apologia. The feet are here. --John Ashbery. A Worldly Country. HarperCollins, 2007. _______________________ Which of the following descriptions best captures the above poem's theme? A) A poem must not mean but be. B) The poet imagines himself dying, and then dead, enclosed in a coffin from which his spirit has departed. C) Life is a ravishing disappointment, most of the time, but oh well. D) Getting old is a real bitch, but the supreme fiction never dies. E) Even our closest friendships are riddled with rumors, missed connections, and contradictory memories. Extra credit: One of the above descriptions was actually written by a prominent critic. Identify which one, and for extra-extra credit, name the critic. ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.mac.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.0/1379 - Release Date: 4/15/2008 6:10 PM -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at tin.it Wed Apr 16 08:31:24 2008 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2008 14:31:24 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Threat Level Update In-Reply-To: <48055910.5040603@opus40.org> References: <48055910.5040603@opus40.org> Message-ID: <3C038157E7A54834B066E2B25D2035CA@AnnyPC> /excellent from here. ----- Original Message ----- From: "TheOldMole" To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views" Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2008 3:40 AM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Threat Level Update > Yours, Jim? This is wonderful. > > JforJames at aol.com wrote: >> Homeland Security Announces Refined Threat Levels >> >> Threat Level: Gray >> >> A gloomy terrorist is a dangerous terrorist. >> The clouds come low over the horizon, turn >> into a strafing rain. Refrain from listening to poets. >> >> >> Threat Level: White >> >> Even wearing penny loafers and sweaters >> they blend in easily. Regard with suspicion >> a penchant for changing sheets, teeth that blind. >> >> >> Threat Level: Chartreuse >> >> They will be wearing dark glasses and shirts >> or blouses of a most unseemly color. Standing near >> them poses a radiation risk to the unborn. >> >> >> Threat Level: Mauve >> >> Grandmotherly and overdressed, there is much >> that can be hidden within those folds of clothes and flesh. >> Say your prayers when the purse is unclasped. >> >> >> Threat Level: Neon >> >> Not a color per se, but an attitude. A unwillingness >> to respect sleep. At any moment they might pull the tap, >> fondle the waitress and do an indecipherable dance. >> >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> It's Tax Time! Get tips, forms and advice on AOL Money & Finance >> . >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> > > -- > Tad Richards > http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ > http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ > > The moral is this: in American verse, > The better you are, the pay is worse. > --Corey Ford > > _______________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at tin.it Wed Apr 16 09:27:32 2008 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2008 15:27:32 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Great News Message-ID: <8D16384722094566B15F268A47EBB0AE@AnnyPC> for our Amy King, she will moderate the WOM-PO List since Annie Finch feels: "It is time for me to move on to other projects. I no longer feel I have the energy or space in my life to give the list the kind of attention that moderating entails." Congratulations to Amy King again! Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Opus40-01 at opus40.org Wed Apr 16 09:32:20 2008 From: Opus40-01 at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2008 09:32:20 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Great News In-Reply-To: <8D16384722094566B15F268A47EBB0AE@AnnyPC> References: <8D16384722094566B15F268A47EBB0AE@AnnyPC> Message-ID: <4805FFE4.5080003@opus40.org> Could not be in better hands. Anny Ballardini wrote: > for our Amy King, > > she will moderate the WOM-PO List since Annie Finch feels: "It is time > for me to move on to other projects. I no longer feel I have the > energy or space in my life to give the list the kind of attention that > moderating entails." > > Congratulations to Amy King again! > > Anny Ballardini > http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ > http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome > http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html > I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a > dancing star! > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ The moral is this: in American verse, The better you are, the pay is worse. --Corey Ford From amyhappens at yahoo.com Wed Apr 16 09:43:06 2008 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king) Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2008 06:43:06 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Great News Message-ID: <466864.6033.qm@web83305.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> It seems half of my life might be virtual now! Somehow, I'm down with it, even moreso than my students who can't be surgically removed from their text messaging machines, even during class. Thanks, Anny, and all, for your kind support. I'm sorry not to be able to head up to Rhode Island to hear you read! So close, and yet not quite. Will you be heading down to NYC? How long will you be state-side? Do people still call it "state-side"? xo, Amy ______ http://www.amyking.org ----- Original Message ---- From: Anny Ballardini To: New Poetry Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2008 9:27:32 AM Subject: [New-Poetry] Great News for our Amy King, she will moderate the WOM-PO List since Annie Finch feels: "It is time for me to move on to other projects. I no longer feel I have the energy or space in my life to give the list the kind of attention that moderating entails." Congratulations to Amy King again! Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From skip at louisiana.edu Wed Apr 16 09:49:27 2008 From: skip at louisiana.edu (Skip Fox) Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2008 08:49:27 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Ashes, ashes, we all fall down In-Reply-To: <48059DAC.7080203@ntlworld.com> Message-ID: <005f01c89fc8$b6ecb1a0$3b874682@win.louisiana.edu> The good part about old age is there's plenty of time to get used to it. The bad part about old age is there's never enough time. (Sometimes I think I should be writing jokes for the Elks Club or somesuch.) -----Original Message----- From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of David Bircumshaw Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2008 1:33 AM To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Ashes, ashes, we all fall down Getting old is a real bitch, but it's time to take it for a walk . -- David Bircumshaw Website and A Chide's Alphabet http://homepage.ntlworld.com/david.bircumshaw/ The Animal Subsides http://www.arrowheadpress.co.uk/books/animal.html Leicester Poetry Society: http://www.poetryleicester.co.uk _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From grahamd at ripon.edu Wed Apr 16 10:08:07 2008 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2008 09:08:07 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Ashes, ashes, we all fall down In-Reply-To: <003401c89fb8$37431080$0201a8c0@LindaSue> References: <200804160115.m3G1Fudt005477@mail66c35.nsolutionszone.com> <003401c89fb8$37431080$0201a8c0@LindaSue> Message-ID: <200804161408.m3GE877A011464@mail26c35.nsolutionszone.com> Thanks for playing the game, everyone. We have one winner, Linda Sue Grimes, who correctly identified both quotation and critic--you didn't cheat with Google, now did you, Linda? We also have an anonymous backchannel winner. Both winners will receive my full thanks as well as an imaginary convex mirror. As Robin pointed out, (A) is of course MacLeish. Choice (B) was written by Stephen Burt in a recent review of the book in the Times Literary Supplement. http://entertainment.timesonline.co.uk/tol/arts_and_entertainment/ the_tls/article3626601.ece The other choices were my own concoctions. My point, to the extent I had one, was simple amusement at how often critics attempt to paraphrase Ashbery poems, when to my eyes this often amounts to pushing rope uphill. The poems themselves seem to permit almost any sort of description. ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.mac.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== On Apr 16, 2008, at 6:51 AM, Linda Sue Grimes wrote: > B written by Stephen Burt > > lsg > ----- Original Message ----- > From: David Graham > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu & Views > Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 2008 8:15 PM > Subject: [New-Poetry] Ashes, ashes, we all fall down > > As part of National Too Much Poetry Month, NewPo is pleased to > offer its first Ashbery quiz. > > Ready? > > Here's a poem from Mr. Ashbery's most recent book: > > The Inchcape Rock > Prop up the "meaning," > take the trash out, the dog for a walk, > give the old balls a scratch, apologize for three things > by Friday--oh quiet noumenon > of my soul, this is it, right? > You lost the key and the answer is inside > somewhere, and where are you going to breathe? > The box is shut that knew you > and all your friends, > voices that could have spoken in your behalf ... > Why, what did you want me to do with them? > Half a document is sufficient to this > weather, wild time, excrescence, more. > Rumors sift across a bald apologia. > The feet are here. > --John Ashbery. A Worldly Country. HarperCollins, 2007. > _______________________ > > Which of the following descriptions best captures the above poem's > theme? > > A) A poem must not mean but be. > > B) The poet imagines himself dying, and then dead, enclosed in a > coffin from which his spirit has departed. > > C) Life is a ravishing disappointment, most of the time, but oh well. > > D) Getting old is a real bitch, but the supreme fiction never dies. > > E) Even our closest friendships are riddled with rumors, missed > connections, and contradictory memories. > > > Extra credit: > > One of the above descriptions was actually written by a prominent > critic. Identify which one, and for extra-extra credit, name the > critic. > ======================================== > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From amyhappens at yahoo.com Wed Apr 16 10:09:48 2008 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king) Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2008 07:09:48 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] National Poetry Month Celebration in Quotes Message-ID: <644230.20548.qm@web83312.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Admittedly, not all of the quotes below are by poets per se, but I made an effort to gather unusual-and-quirky-but-related quotes on poetry (w some that went off-track) in celebration of National Poetry Month on my blog yesterday (http://amyking.wordpress.com/2008/04/15/when-lightning-bolts-from-my-chest/) --- I wanted to get beyond the "Poetry is the rearrangement of beauty ..." abstractions (hey, I just made that one up and I like it!), and I'd be grateful for more odd/bizarre/revealing quotes to be added to my collection. Of course, you're missing the naked picture of Ginsberg here that appears in the original blog entry ... ?God has a brown voice, as soft and full as beer.? ?Anne Sexton ?Asfor poetry ?belonging? in the classroom, it?s like the way they taughtus sex in those old hygiene classes: not performance but semiotics. Ifit I had taken Hygiene 71 seriously, I would have become a monk; &if I had taken college English seriously, I would have become anaccountant.? ?Jerome Rothenberg OnClouds ? ??what primitive tastes the ancients must have had if theirpoets were inspired by those absurd, untidy clumps of mist, idioticallyjostling one another about?? ?Yevgeny Zamyatin ?Poetry is the synthesis of hyacinths and biscuits.? ?Carl Sandburg For each letter received from a creditor, write fifty lines on an extraterrestrial subject and you will be saved. ?Charles Baudelaire ?Ihave been in Sorrow?s kitchen and licked out all the pots. Then I havestood on the peaky mountain wrapped in rainbows, with a harp and asword in my hands.? ?Zora Neale Hurston ?The purpose of art, including literature, is not to reflect life but to organize it, to build it.? ?Yevgeny Zamyatin (The Goal, ca. 1926) ?One can smell it turning to gas; if one were Baudelaire one could probably hear it turning to marimba music.? ?Elizabeth Bishop ?Ifthe poet wants to be a poet, the poet must force the poet to revise. Ifthe poet doesn?t wish to revise, let the poet abandon poetry and takeup stamp-collecting or real estate.? ?Donald Hall ?Nothing that God ever made is the same thing to more than one person. That is natural.? ?Zora Neale Hurston ?I took a deep breath and listened to the old bray of my heart. I am. I am. I am.? ?Sylvia Plath Inscience one tries to tell people, in such a way as to be understood byeveryone, something that no one ever knew before. But in poetry, it?sthe exact opposite. ?Paul Dirac ?Heaven is not like flying or swimming, but has something to do with blackness and a strong glare.? ?Elizabeth Bishop ?Poetryis a rich, full-bodied whistle, cracked ice crunching in pails, thenight that numbs the leaf, the duel of two nightingales, the sweet peathat has run wild, Creation?s tears in shoulder blades.? ?Boris Pasternak ?It doesn?t matter who my father was; it matters who I remember he was.? ?Anne Sexton ?Wanted: a needle swift enough to sew this poem into a blanket.? ?Charles Simic ?Thecomposition is the thing seen by everyone living in the living they aredoing, they are the composing of the composition that at the time theyare living is the composition of the time in which they are living.? ?Gertrude Stein ?Apparently,the most difficult feat for a Cambridge male is to accept a woman notmerely as feeling, not merely as thinking, but as managing a complex,vital interweaving of both.? ?Sylvia Plath ?Thereis no single face in nature, because every eye that looks upon it, seesit from its own angle. So every man?s spice-box seasons his own food.? ?Zora Neale Hurston ?Sheeven had a kind of special position among men: she was an exception,she fitted none of the categories they commonly used when talking aboutgirls; she wasn?t a cock-teaser, a cold fish, an easy lay or a snarkybitch; she was an honorary person. She had grown to share theircontempt for most women.? ?Margaret Atwood ?Languageis a cracked kettle on which we beat out tunes for bears to dance to,while all the time we long to move the stars to pity.? ?Gustave Flaubert ?Poetryis not an expression of the party line. It?s that time of night, lyingin bed, thinking what you really think, making the private worldpublic, that?s what the poet does.? ?Allen Ginsberg ?Idid not believe political directives could be successfully applied tocreative writing . . . not to poetry or fiction, which to be valid hadto express as truthfully as possible the individual emotions andreactions of the writer.? ?Langston Hughes ?A diary means yes indeed.? ?Gertrude Stein ?Ithink one of poetry?s functions is not to give us what we want? [T]hepoet isn?t always of use to the tribe. The tribe thrives on theconsensual. The tribe is pulling together to face the intruder whothreatens it. Meanwhile, the poet is sitting by himself in thegraveyard talking to a skull.? ?Heather McHugh ?Poetryis the journal of the sea animal living on land, wanting to fly in theair. Poetry is a search for syllables to shoot at the barriers of theunknown and the unknowable. Poetry is a phantom script telling howrainbows are made and why they go away.? ?Carl Sandburg ?When,however, one reads of a witch being ducked, of a woman possessed bydevils, of a wise woman selling herbs, or even a very remarkable manwho had a mother, then I think we are on the track of a lost novelist,a suppressed poet. . . indeed, I would venture to guess that Anon, whowrote so many poems without signing them, was often a woman.? ?Virginia Woolf ?Thiscop told me, furthermore, that it had been difficult for him to followme because I had signaled too soon. I told him that, because I didn?tknow there was anyone else in the world, any signaling was an act offaith.? ?Kathy Acker Evenin the centuries which appear to us to be the most monstrous andfoolish, the immortal appetite for beauty has always foundsatisfaction. ?Charles Baudelaire ?I am ashamed of my century, but I have to smile? ?Frank O?Hara _______ http://www.amyking.org ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Opus40-01 at opus40.org Wed Apr 16 10:22:25 2008 From: Opus40-01 at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2008 10:22:25 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Ashes, ashes, we all fall down In-Reply-To: <200804161408.m3GE877A011464@mail26c35.nsolutionszone.com> References: <200804160115.m3G1Fudt005477@mail66c35.nsolutionszone.com> <003401c89fb8$37431080$0201a8c0@LindaSue> <200804161408.m3GE877A011464@mail26c35.nsolutionszone.com> Message-ID: <48060BA1.6040600@opus40.org> So I voted for the real one? Pretentiousness and all? Do more of these, David. This was fun. And I think expandable into a piece for publication, if you can find a journal with a sense of humor. David Graham wrote: > Thanks for playing the game, everyone. We have one winner, Linda Sue > Grimes, who correctly identified both quotation and critic--you didn't > cheat with Google, now did you, Linda? We also have an anonymous > backchannel winner. Both winners will receive my full thanks as well > as an imaginary convex mirror. > > As Robin pointed out, (A) is of course MacLeish. Choice (B) was > written by Stephen Burt in a recent review of the book in the Times > Literary Supplement. > http://entertainment.timesonline.co.uk/tol/arts_and_entertainment/the_tls/article3626601.ece > > The other choices were my own concoctions. My point, to the extent I > had one, was simple amusement at how often critics attempt to > paraphrase Ashbery poems, when to my eyes this often amounts to > pushing rope uphill. The poems themselves seem to permit almost any > sort of description. > > > > ======================================== > David Graham > grahamd at ripon.edu > > Home Page: > http://web.mac.com/drjazz > > Poetry Library: > http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html > ========================================== > > > > > On Apr 16, 2008, at 6:51 AM, Linda Sue Grimes wrote: >> B written by Stephen Burt >> >> lsg >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> *From:* David Graham >> *To:* new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu & Views >> >> *Sent:* Tuesday, April 15, 2008 8:15 PM >> *Subject:* [New-Poetry] Ashes, ashes, we all fall down >> >> As part of National Too Much Poetry Month, NewPo is pleased to >> offer its first Ashbery quiz. >> >> Ready? >> >> Here's a poem from Mr. Ashbery's most recent book: >> >> *The Inchcape Rock* >> Prop up the "meaning," >> take the trash out, the dog for a walk, >> give the old balls a scratch, apologize for three things >> by Friday--oh quiet noumenon >> of my soul, this is it, right? >> You lost the key and the answer is inside >> somewhere, and where are you going to breathe? >> The box is shut that knew you >> and all your friends, >> voices that could have spoken in your behalf ... >> Why, what did you want me to do with them? >> Half a document is sufficient to this >> weather, wild time, excrescence, more. >> Rumors sift across a bald apologia. >> The feet are here. >> --John Ashbery. /A Worldly Countr/y. HarperCollins, 2007. >> _______________________ >> >> Which of the following descriptions best captures the above >> poem's theme? >> >> A) A poem must not mean but be. >> >> B) The poet imagines himself dying, and then dead, enclosed in a >> coffin from which his spirit has departed. >> >> C) Life is a ravishing disappointment, most of the time, but oh >> well. >> >> D) Getting old is a real bitch, but the supreme fiction never dies. >> >> E) Even our closest friendships are riddled with rumors, missed >> connections, and contradictory memories. >> >> >> Extra credit: >> >> One of the above descriptions was actually written by a prominent >> critic. Identify which one, and for extra-extra credit, name the >> critic. >> ======================================== >> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ The moral is this: in American verse, The better you are, the pay is worse. --Corey Ford From halvard at earthlink.net Wed Apr 16 10:34:21 2008 From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson) Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2008 10:34:21 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Ashes, ashes, we all fall down In-Reply-To: <005f01c89fc8$b6ecb1a0$3b874682@win.louisiana.edu> References: <005f01c89fc8$b6ecb1a0$3b874682@win.louisiana.edu> Message-ID: <2499F5D7-BC3E-4CE0-BCBD-6975E70C96F1@earthlink.net> "Old age ain't for sissies." I think it was John Gilgun who used to say that. Hal "Start every day off with a smile, and get it over with." --W. C. Fields Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html On Apr 16, 2008, at 9:49 AM, Skip Fox wrote: > The good part about old age is > there's plenty of time to get used to it. > > The bad part about old age is > there's never enough time. > > (Sometimes I think I should be writing jokes for the Elks Club or > somesuch.) > > -----Original Message----- > From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu > [mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of David > Bircumshaw > Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2008 1:33 AM > To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Ashes, ashes, we all fall down > > Getting old is a real bitch, but it's time to take it for a walk > . > > -- > > David Bircumshaw > Website and A Chide's Alphabet > http://homepage.ntlworld.com/david.bircumshaw/ > The Animal Subsides http://www.arrowheadpress.co.uk/books/animal.html > Leicester Poetry Society: http://www.poetryleicester.co.uk > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From anny.ballardini at tin.it Wed Apr 16 11:22:29 2008 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2008 17:22:29 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Ashes, ashes, we all fall down In-Reply-To: <200804161408.m3GE877A011464@mail26c35.nsolutionszone.com> References: <200804160115.m3G1Fudt005477@mail66c35.nsolutionszone.com><003401c89fb8$37431080$0201a8c0@LindaSue> <200804161408.m3GE877A011464@mail26c35.nsolutionszone.com> Message-ID: <79EBA7920E154D74A2DA891C41211575@AnnyPC> I preferred your own concoction, the only one that made sense! ----- Original Message ----- From: David Graham To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2008 4:08 PM Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Ashes, ashes, we all fall down Thanks for playing the game, everyone. We have one winner, Linda Sue Grimes, who correctly identified both quotation and critic--you didn't cheat with Google, now did you, Linda? We also have an anonymous backchannel winner. Both winners will receive my full thanks as well as an imaginary convex mirror. As Robin pointed out, (A) is of course MacLeish. Choice (B) was written by Stephen Burt in a recent review of the book in the Times Literary Supplement. http://entertainment.timesonline.co.uk/tol/arts_and_entertainment/the_tls/article3626601.ece The other choices were my own concoctions. My point, to the extent I had one, was simple amusement at how often critics attempt to paraphrase Ashbery poems, when to my eyes this often amounts to pushing rope uphill. The poems themselves seem to permit almost any sort of description. ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.mac.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== On Apr 16, 2008, at 6:51 AM, Linda Sue Grimes wrote: B written by Stephen Burt lsg ----- Original Message ----- From: David Graham To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu & Views Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 2008 8:15 PM Subject: [New-Poetry] Ashes, ashes, we all fall down As part of National Too Much Poetry Month, NewPo is pleased to offer its first Ashbery quiz. Ready? Here's a poem from Mr. Ashbery's most recent book: The Inchcape Rock Prop up the "meaning," take the trash out, the dog for a walk, give the old balls a scratch, apologize for three things by Friday--oh quiet noumenon of my soul, this is it, right? You lost the key and the answer is inside somewhere, and where are you going to breathe? The box is shut that knew you and all your friends, voices that could have spoken in your behalf ... Why, what did you want me to do with them? Half a document is sufficient to this weather, wild time, excrescence, more. Rumors sift across a bald apologia. The feet are here. --John Ashbery. A Worldly Country. HarperCollins, 2007. _______________________ Which of the following descriptions best captures the above poem's theme? A) A poem must not mean but be. B) The poet imagines himself dying, and then dead, enclosed in a coffin from which his spirit has departed. C) Life is a ravishing disappointment, most of the time, but oh well. D) Getting old is a real bitch, but the supreme fiction never dies. E) Even our closest friendships are riddled with rumors, missed connections, and contradictory memories. Extra credit: One of the above descriptions was actually written by a prominent critic. Identify which one, and for extra-extra credit, name the critic. ======================================== ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.0/1379 - Release Date: 4/15/2008 6:10 PM -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lsgrimes at stonegulch.com Wed Apr 16 11:59:21 2008 From: lsgrimes at stonegulch.com (Linda Sue Grimes) Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2008 10:59:21 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Ashes, ashes, we all fall down References: <200804160115.m3G1Fudt005477@mail66c35.nsolutionszone.com><003401c89fb8$37431080$0201a8c0@LindaSue> <200804161408.m3GE877A011464@mail26c35.nsolutionszone.com> Message-ID: <002601c89fda$d6610ab0$0201a8c0@LindaSue> What? You mean using Google is cheating? Then, of course, I didn't. I would never cheat. I was tired, and I might have mistyped or misclicked, though ;) lsg ----- Original Message ----- From: David Graham To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2008 9:08 AM Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Ashes, ashes, we all fall down Thanks for playing the game, everyone. We have one winner, Linda Sue Grimes, who correctly identified both quotation and critic--you didn't cheat with Google, now did you, Linda? We also have an anonymous backchannel winner. Both winners will receive my full thanks as well as an imaginary convex mirror. As Robin pointed out, (A) is of course MacLeish. Choice (B) was written by Stephen Burt in a recent review of the book in the Times Literary Supplement. http://entertainment.timesonline.co.uk/tol/arts_and_entertainment/the_tls/article3626601.ece The other choices were my own concoctions. My point, to the extent I had one, was simple amusement at how often critics attempt to paraphrase Ashbery poems, when to my eyes this often amounts to pushing rope uphill. The poems themselves seem to permit almost any sort of description. ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.mac.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== On Apr 16, 2008, at 6:51 AM, Linda Sue Grimes wrote: B written by Stephen Burt lsg ----- Original Message ----- From: David Graham To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu & Views Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 2008 8:15 PM Subject: [New-Poetry] Ashes, ashes, we all fall down As part of National Too Much Poetry Month, NewPo is pleased to offer its first Ashbery quiz. Ready? Here's a poem from Mr. Ashbery's most recent book: The Inchcape Rock Prop up the "meaning," take the trash out, the dog for a walk, give the old balls a scratch, apologize for three things by Friday--oh quiet noumenon of my soul, this is it, right? You lost the key and the answer is inside somewhere, and where are you going to breathe? The box is shut that knew you and all your friends, voices that could have spoken in your behalf ... Why, what did you want me to do with them? Half a document is sufficient to this weather, wild time, excrescence, more. Rumors sift across a bald apologia. The feet are here. --John Ashbery. A Worldly Country. HarperCollins, 2007. _______________________ Which of the following descriptions best captures the above poem's theme? A) A poem must not mean but be. B) The poet imagines himself dying, and then dead, enclosed in a coffin from which his spirit has departed. C) Life is a ravishing disappointment, most of the time, but oh well. D) Getting old is a real bitch, but the supreme fiction never dies. E) Even our closest friendships are riddled with rumors, missed connections, and contradictory memories. Extra credit: One of the above descriptions was actually written by a prominent critic. Identify which one, and for extra-extra credit, name the critic. ======================================== ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Wed Apr 16 12:11:39 2008 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2008 12:11:39 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Great News In-Reply-To: <8D16384722094566B15F268A47EBB0AE@AnnyPC> References: <8D16384722094566B15F268A47EBB0AE@AnnyPC> Message-ID: <8CA6DF3B012A99B-DF0-425@WEBMAIL-MB17.sysops.aol.com> To paraphrase the recenly deceased Charlton Heston, "They'll have to pry the mouse from cold, dead hand." Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: Anny Ballardini To: New Poetry Sent: Wed, 16 Apr 2008 9:27 am Subject: [New-Poetry] Great News for our Amy King, ? she will moderate the WOM-PO List since Annie Finch feels: "It is time for me to move on to other projects. ?I no longer feel I have the energy or space in my life to give the list the kind of attention that moderating entails." ? Congratulations to Amy King again! ? Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Wed Apr 16 12:57:09 2008 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2008 12:57:09 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Aphorismo Message-ID: <8CA6DFA0B27D865-100-AE7@WEBMAIL-DC11.sysops.aol.com> The aphorsim which straddles the realms of poetry and philosophy and proverbs, had a conference devoted to the genre... http://www.jamesgeary.com/blog/?p=149 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com Wed Apr 16 15:02:18 2008 From: robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com (Robin Hamilton) Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2008 20:02:18 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Life's a (real) bitch References: <200804160115.m3G1Fudt005477@mail66c35.nsolutionszone.com> Message-ID: <00fb01c89ff4$651daf60$4101a8c0@nowhereddc257a> I've been trying to pin down just why I was (wrongly, as dave, amongst others, demonstrated) disturbed by David's: Getting old is a real bitch, but the supreme fiction never dies. I think it's a mush of things. I just did a cheap&nasty run on google (where you pay nothing and get what you pay for) with the following results: "life's a bitch" -- 480,000 hits "life's a real bitch" -- 353 hits ... now that assumes David was modelling his statement on "Life's a (real) bitch", which may not be the case. Now metrically, "Life's a bitch" can neatly form the first half of a tight four-stress line -- Life's a bitch // You have to try [So I made that up, but there could, I think, be lots of parallels found in Auden, four-stress lines with trochaic overtones. And Gioa? :-( ] Now David's line *could be construed as two four stress lines: Getting old is a real bitch, but the supreme fiction never dies. ... but awkwardly (in my relineation, not David's original statement). More influential for me (which shows how stuck I currently am in cant from 1500-2000) was the "gallows/gallus" (possibly parallel) problem. I haven't quite got this straight in my head, but as a rough approximation ... "Gallows" as used in English cant is both definitely an adjective and predominantly negative -- thus "gallows whores" who are sometimes more politely referred to as the "flash girls of the city." "Gallus" in West of Scotland/American is (usually) complimentary and also has (sorry to put this so sloppily/vaguely) adverbial aspects. Which brings us back to "Getting old is a (real) bitch" ... That "real" locks-down "bitch" as a noun, whereas without it, the word has aspects of its (possible) derivation from the verb "bitching". [Which of course itself probably derives from the technical term for a female of the canine species.] So "bitch" by itself can (jeezuz, this is folk etymology with a vengeance!) be seen to derive from bitch(ing)=grousing, whereas bitch-with-an-adjective has (?) to be a female dog. I'm not sure whether all (or any) of this makes sense, but it's trying to untease my original reservation which dave shot down in flames. Well, that was part of the idea -- why have access to a Brummie dog and bark yourself? R. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From amyhappens at yahoo.com Wed Apr 16 16:17:18 2008 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king) Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2008 13:17:18 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Great News Message-ID: <790909.1171.qm@web83313.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Which is fitting and something of a graduation since my first pets were meeces: Rose and Ralph. xo _______ http://www.amyking.org ----- Original Message ---- From: "jforjames at aol.com" To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2008 12:11:39 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Great News To paraphrase the recenly deceased Charlton Heston, "They'll have to pry the mouse from cold, dead hand." Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: Anny Ballardini To: New Poetry Sent: Wed, 16 Apr 2008 9:27 am Subject: [New-Poetry] Great News for our Amy King, she will moderate the WOM-PO List since Annie Finch feels: "It is time for me to move on to other projects. I no longer feel I have the energy or space in my life to give the list the kind of attention that moderating entails." Congratulations to Amy King again! Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry Get the MapQuest Toolbar, Maps, Traffic, Directions & More! ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From david.bircumshaw at ntlworld.com Wed Apr 16 16:17:38 2008 From: david.bircumshaw at ntlworld.com (David Bircumshaw) Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2008 21:17:38 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Life's a (real) bitch In-Reply-To: <00fb01c89ff4$651daf60$4101a8c0@nowhereddc257a> References: <200804160115.m3G1Fudt005477@mail66c35.nsolutionszone.com> <00fb01c89ff4$651daf60$4101a8c0@nowhereddc257a> Message-ID: <48065EE2.60506@ntlworld.com> > Well, that was part of the idea -- why have access to a Brummie dog > and bark yourself? Hoi!! (laughing) I wasn't trying to answer David's question, because I knew the answer. Without googling. It was only because the review in question had been mentioned on PoetryEtc recently and I'd read it. My one liner was just a joke. I've expanded it into a (unmetrical) poem: > / At/ /Ashbery Downs/ > > > > Getting old is the real bitch, but it's time to take it for a walk. > The tricks, the confidence, go, though half of a fiction remains, > > along with our strange weather, whistling by a sky-blue pillar-box. > There are feet, they are sore, this side of your baked Alaska. > -- David Bircumshaw Website and A Chide's Alphabet http://homepage.ntlworld.com/david.bircumshaw/ The Animal Subsides http://www.arrowheadpress.co.uk/books/animal.html Leicester Poetry Society: http://www.poetryleicester.co.uk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com Wed Apr 16 16:22:29 2008 From: robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com (Robin Hamilton) Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2008 21:22:29 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Cant and Authenticity References: <200804160115.m3G1Fudt005477@mail66c35.nsolutionszone.com> <00fb01c89ff4$651daf60$4101a8c0@nowhereddc257a> Message-ID: <013701c89fff$983adb10$4101a8c0@nowhereddc257a> A bit off-topic, but there's a real problem (actually a whole range of problems, and classes of problems) here. What is "authentic" cant? I'm less interested in an abstract definition as getting some sort of lever on this. One possibility is to say that cant is unmediated oral speech as actually used by speakers uninfluenced by literary derivations. As if ...! But lord bless us, even by sixteen hundred, that leaves [possibly] exactly six lines towards the end of Copland's "Highway to the Spital House" of 1530 -- by the time Dekker gets into the act in the late 1590s, there's already an interplay between authentic vagabond speech and literary-constructed cant texts ... (You cant [sic] even trust the criminals, which is why I so much loathe James Hardy "thrice-transporterd" Vuax -- so sure, he was a real criminal, if one of the more stunningly incompetent ones on record -- but his cant vocabulary is a totally self-serving attempt to buy himself out of yet another seven-year stretch in Botany Bay.) I'd pretty much trust David Haggard, and even the Napoleon of Burglars as transcribed by the Reverend Tefft, but when you come to George Washington Matsell, New York's first Chief of Police and linguistic consultant to The Gangs of New York, there's a real quagmire. Matsell, along with Dr. William Maginn and Piers Egan, was one of the few who seem to me to have been quite at home both in cant and Standard English. Unfortunately, as exemplified by "Scene in a London Flash-Panny" included in his Vocubulum, Matsell had (and no wonder nobody liked him, from the New York Yimes in the 1850s to Mike Walsh) a quite vicious sense of humour, and "Scene" doesn't so much register-jump as register jump *within 1530s English cant and 1850s New York cant. It would be easy to dismiss the incongruities of "Scene" as due to ineptitude, but this is the man who managed to stitch together Dr. William Maginn's cant transformation of a traditional Scottish song, "An Hundred Years Hence" with (long before, and probably influencing W.E.Henley's "Villon's Advice to Cross Coves") Villon's Testament to produce "A Hundred Stretches Hence". There's also -- would you believe it? Shades of Barak Obamah -- a class thing involved. The Street tended to admire adept burgulars and pickpockets, like Jack Sheppard, while the Literate Classes hymned nasty and usually inept bullies who called themselves highwaymen, like Dick Turpin. The one who serves as the Terrible Exemplar of this, the Christ of the Ice Flows of Cant, is Sixteen String Jack Rann, who managed to model himself *simultaneously on Jack Sheppard (betrayed by Edgeworth Bess, as Rann was later to be betrayed by Miss Roche, who after she came back from a seven-stretch, opened a pub that positively *traded on her notoriety as Sixteen-String Jack's mistress) and Claude Duval (or yeah, let's admit it, Turpin -- but hey, no one's perfect). The period between the 1720s, when Jack Sheppard was hanged, and 1780, when Sixteen-String Jack was topped, was singularly weird. (Well, later, Pierce Egan swapping boxing annecdotes with Thurtell in the death cell trumps even the interviews Sheppard gave to all and sundry while he was (finally) waiting to be hanged is quite beyond weird.) This story has no moral This story has no end He was her man And she sold him down the river ... Not *everyone equated blowens with betrayers or prostitutes -- Sinfu' Davey rather approved of them, when it came down to it. But let's not go into the Downpatrick Orgy ... R. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com Wed Apr 16 16:27:10 2008 From: robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com (Robin Hamilton) Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2008 21:27:10 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Life's a (real) bitch References: <200804160115.m3G1Fudt005477@mail66c35.nsolutionszone.com><00fb01c89ff4$651daf60$4101a8c0@nowhereddc257a> <48065EE2.60506@ntlworld.com> Message-ID: <014801c8a000$400dceb0$4101a8c0@nowhereddc257a> Getting old is the real bitch, but it's time to take it for a walk. See, dave, you make my point -- you're taking a noun for a walk. Whifflet R. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From david.bircumshaw at ntlworld.com Wed Apr 16 16:45:25 2008 From: david.bircumshaw at ntlworld.com (David Bircumshaw) Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2008 21:45:25 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Life's a (real) bitch In-Reply-To: <014801c8a000$400dceb0$4101a8c0@nowhereddc257a> References: <200804160115.m3G1Fudt005477@mail66c35.nsolutionszone.com><00fb01c89ff4$651daf60$4101a8c0@nowhereddc257a> <48065EE2.60506@ntlworld.com> <014801c8a000$400dceb0$4101a8c0@nowhereddc257a> Message-ID: <48066565.5040804@ntlworld.com> > Getting old is the real bitch, but it's time to take it for a walk. > > See, dave, you make my point -- you're taking a noun for a walk. > > Whifflet R. Yip. (nouns have their rights: food, water, exercise) -- David Bircumshaw Website and A Chide's Alphabet http://homepage.ntlworld.com/david.bircumshaw/ The Animal Subsides http://www.arrowheadpress.co.uk/books/animal.html Leicester Poetry Society: http://www.poetryleicester.co.uk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com Wed Apr 16 16:58:16 2008 From: robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com (Robin Hamilton) Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2008 21:58:16 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Life's a (real) bitch References: <200804160115.m3G1Fudt005477@mail66c35.nsolutionszone.com><00fb01c89ff4$651daf60$4101a8c0@nowhereddc257a><48065EE2.60506@ntlworld.com> <014801c8a000$400dceb0$4101a8c0@nowhereddc257a> Message-ID: <016901c8a004$981bef20$4101a8c0@nowhereddc257a> Getting old is the real bitch, but it's time to take it for a walk. See, dave, you make my point -- you're taking a noun for a walk. Whifflet R. ************* ADDENDUM: From the OED ... 1848 Ladies' Repository VIII. 315 The best protection to a house, with a family in it that can be named ... that is, a little, barking, noisy, cowardly, whiffet dog. In some way, the Reverend Tefft baffles me as much as does Matsell -- you couldn't make him up, a muesili wearing sandle eating Guardian Reader who was interviewing crims in the Virginnia State Penitentiary in the middle of the 19thC! And as to The Napoleon of Burglars, whose words Tefft is reporting above -- was he black? I think so, but Tefft (deliberately) doesn't say. Christ, what a pair! Tefft is easily the nicest person (the nastiest is Grantley Berkley) who I encountered in the 500 years between 1500 and 2000, but put him and the Nap of Crims together and you really *don't know where you are. I mean, today, publishing in exact detail the way to construct an instrument to crack the second story window of a house! ... encouragement of Terrorism ... Did Tefft know The Napolean of Burglars was spinning him a line? About the Terrible Criminal Conspiracy Ringing America? Of course he did -- the Rev. Tefft was easily intelligent enough to know that went back through Thomas Mount, hanged in Rhode Island in the 1780s, to Thomas Harman, and was a self-serving myth by crims to increase their own status. But he played along, bless him,. and reported what was said.. Ah, there were giants on earth in them days ... R. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Opus40-01 at opus40.org Wed Apr 16 17:04:36 2008 From: Opus40-01 at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2008 17:04:36 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Mole Update Message-ID: <480669E4.9000009@opus40.org> You won't want to miss the latest installment of Situations, in which The Major boldly goes where no man has gone before, and returns with (more or less) all his parts intact. http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=Content&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=67 Also, on my blog, playing catch-up with Robert Lee Brewer's poem-a-day challenge, I've now caught up. Posted -- through Day 16. -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ The moral is this: in American verse, The better you are, the pay is worse. --Corey Ford From robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com Wed Apr 16 17:10:01 2008 From: robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com (Robin Hamilton) Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2008 22:10:01 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Life's a (real) bitch References: <200804160115.m3G1Fudt005477@mail66c35.nsolutionszone.com><00fb01c89ff4$651daf60$4101a8c0@nowhereddc257a> <48065EE2.60506@ntlworld.com> Message-ID: <01bb01c8a006$3c03a960$4101a8c0@nowhereddc257a> along with our strange weather, whistling by a sky-blue pillar-box. "bye" or "past" ... if you want to overlay with reference. Sailing {Jeezus, a sky-blue pillar-box conjures up The Prisoner!} Worm Weather -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From david.bircumshaw at ntlworld.com Wed Apr 16 17:26:16 2008 From: david.bircumshaw at ntlworld.com (David Bircumshaw) Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2008 22:26:16 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Life's a (real) bitch In-Reply-To: <01bb01c8a006$3c03a960$4101a8c0@nowhereddc257a> References: <200804160115.m3G1Fudt005477@mail66c35.nsolutionszone.com><00fb01c89ff4$651daf60$4101a8c0@nowhereddc257a> <48065EE2.60506@ntlworld.com> <01bb01c8a006$3c03a960$4101a8c0@nowhereddc257a> Message-ID: <48066EF8.1070809@ntlworld.com> > > along with our strange weather, whistling by a sky-blue pillar-box. > "bye" or "past" > > ... if you want to overlay with reference. > > Sailing > > {Jeezus, a sky-blue pillar-box conjures up The Prisoner!} > > Worm Weather > You win the new unmentioned contest, Mr Worm. I wanted a faux-surreal Sixties-type image. For some reason I associate JA with that era: where sky-monks abound, playing soccer. In the far recesses of those, sob, long-doggone summers. Yip yip. -- David Bircumshaw Website and A Chide's Alphabet http://homepage.ntlworld.com/david.bircumshaw/ The Animal Subsides http://www.arrowheadpress.co.uk/books/animal.html Leicester Poetry Society: http://www.poetryleicester.co.uk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cervantes.james at gmail.com Wed Apr 16 17:36:58 2008 From: cervantes.james at gmail.com (James Cervantes) Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2008 16:36:58 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Aphorismo In-Reply-To: <8CA6DFA0B27D865-100-AE7@WEBMAIL-DC11.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CA6DFA0B27D865-100-AE7@WEBMAIL-DC11.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <648208b60804161436j3fcc8d64ue57fe383157a6ba1@mail.gmail.com> I liked the caveat built into the opening of the article: "On March 14, 2008, the University of London's Institute of Philosophy hosted a symposium on philosophy and the aphorism atGoodenough College ." Location is everything - Jim Now-In-Mexico Cervantes On Wed, Apr 16, 2008 at 11:57 AM, wrote: > The aphorsim which straddles the realms of poetry and philosophy and > proverbs, had a conference devoted to the genre... > > http://www.jamesgeary.com/blog/?p=149 > ------------------------------ > Get the MapQuest Toolbar, > Maps, Traffic, Directions & More! > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com Wed Apr 16 17:54:29 2008 From: robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com (Robin Hamilton) Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2008 22:54:29 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Life's a (real) bitch References: <200804160115.m3G1Fudt005477@mail66c35.nsolutionszone.com><00fb01c89ff4$651daf60$4101a8c0@nowhereddc257a> <48065EE2.60506@ntlworld.com><01bb01c8a006$3c03a960$4101a8c0@nowhereddc257a> <48066EF8.1070809@ntlworld.com> Message-ID: <001001c8a00c$72e19fe0$4101a8c0@nowhereddc257a> I associate JA with that era: where sky-monks abound, playing soccer. In the far recesses of those, sob, long-doggone summers. Keep those stodgies smoking, rawhide! ... but jeezus, dave, *blue pillar boxes? -- that's so straight out of Finnegann's Wkje. Or is George Formby the New Black? Joanna Lumly trumps Emma Peel. Hey, is this a class thing or an age thing? I'm older than you after all. When you were wet behind the ears working the phones, I was publishing in a magazine running the banner: "The Revolution will come when the last bourgeois is strung from a lampost from the guts of the last capitalist." Oh god, those sky-playing soccer monks is so *specific -- except it was cricket. Ernst? Dali? Eccles? Basil In the shade of the five o'clock tower, I watched Rupert walk up towards the pitch munching a cucumber sandwich --all the dead children! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com Wed Apr 16 18:11:17 2008 From: robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com (Robin Hamilton) Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2008 23:11:17 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Revisoion References: <200804160115.m3G1Fudt005477@mail66c35.nsolutionszone.com><00fb01c89ff4$651daf60$4101a8c0@nowhereddc257a> <48065EE2.60506@ntlworld.com><01bb01c8a006$3c03a960$4101a8c0@nowhereddc257a><48066EF8.1070809@ntlworld.com> <001001c8a00c$72e19fe0$4101a8c0@nowhereddc257a> Message-ID: <003a01c8a00e$cb4210f0$4101a8c0@nowhereddc257a> I watched Rupert walk up towards the pitch I watched Rupert walk up towards the crease Obviously. R. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From david.bircumshaw at ntlworld.com Wed Apr 16 18:35:53 2008 From: david.bircumshaw at ntlworld.com (David Bircumshaw) Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2008 23:35:53 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Life's a (real) bitch In-Reply-To: <001001c8a00c$72e19fe0$4101a8c0@nowhereddc257a> References: <200804160115.m3G1Fudt005477@mail66c35.nsolutionszone.com><00fb01c89ff4$651daf60$4101a8c0@nowhereddc257a> <48065EE2.60506@ntlworld.com><01bb01c8a006$3c03a960$4101a8c0@nowhereddc257a> <48066EF8.1070809@ntlworld.com> <001001c8a00c$72e19fe0$4101a8c0@nowhereddc257a> Message-ID: <48067F49.1030102@ntlworld.com> > > Oh god, those sky-playing soccer monks is so *specific -- except it > was cricket. > > Ernst? Dali? Eccles? > > Basil "In the far recesses of summer/ Monks are playing soccer" John Ashbery (the pillar-boxes are blue so that they can't be taken for anything British) Morpheus beckons. Broom wych -- David Bircumshaw Website and A Chide's Alphabet http://homepage.ntlworld.com/david.bircumshaw/ The Animal Subsides http://www.arrowheadpress.co.uk/books/animal.html Leicester Poetry Society: http://www.poetryleicester.co.uk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com Wed Apr 16 18:50:39 2008 From: robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com (Robin Hamilton) Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2008 23:50:39 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Life's a (real) bitch References: <200804160115.m3G1Fudt005477@mail66c35.nsolutionszone.com><00fb01c89ff4$651daf60$4101a8c0@nowhereddc257a> <48065EE2.60506@ntlworld.com><01bb01c8a006$3c03a960$4101a8c0@nowhereddc257a> <48066EF8.1070809@ntlworld.com><001001c8a00c$72e19fe0$4101a8c0@nowhereddc257a> <48067F49.1030102@ntlworld.com> Message-ID: <008d01c8a014$4b2846e0$4101a8c0@nowhereddc257a> Oh god, those sky-playing soccer monks is so *specific -- except it was cricket. Ernst? Dali? Eccles? Basil "In the far recesses of summer/ Monks are playing soccer" John Ashbery Ah, I had a visual in my head, not a verbal. All those Magritte/Chirico premature surrealist panitings. Shame you can't google for a visual. I've got a specific painting in mind, only I can't place it. Sad that, but. :-( R. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at earthlink.net Wed Apr 16 19:19:43 2008 From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson) Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2008 19:19:43 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Life's a (real) bitch In-Reply-To: <008d01c8a014$4b2846e0$4101a8c0@nowhereddc257a> References: <200804160115.m3G1Fudt005477@mail66c35.nsolutionszone.com><00fb01c89ff4$651daf60$4101a8c0@nowhereddc257a> <48065EE2.60506@ntlworld.com><01bb01c8a006$3c03a960$4101a8c0@nowhereddc257a> <48066EF8.1070809@ntlworld.com><001001c8a00c$72e19fe0$4101a8c0@nowhereddc257a> <48067F49.1030102@ntlworld.com> <008d01c8a014$4b2846e0$4101a8c0@nowhereddc257a> Message-ID: <8360652F-79A7-4062-9E7C-15F3A18AC8E6@earthlink.net> > All those Magritte/Chirico premature surrealist panitings. > > Shame you can't google for a visual. Why not? Google Magritte and/or Chirico and click on images. "Balthus is a painter about whom nothing is known." --Balthus Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com Wed Apr 16 22:08:22 2008 From: robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com (Robin Hamilton) Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2008 03:08:22 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Life's a (real) bitch References: <200804160115.m3G1Fudt005477@mail66c35.nsolutionszone.com><00fb01c89ff4$651daf60$4101a8c0@nowhereddc257a> <48065EE2.60506@ntlworld.com><01bb01c8a006$3c03a960$4101a8c0@nowhereddc257a> <48066EF8.1070809@ntlworld.com><001001c8a00c$72e19fe0$4101a8c0@nowhereddc257a><48067F49.1030102@ntlworld.com><008d01c8a014$4b2846e0$4101a8c0@nowhereddc257a> <8360652F-79A7-4062-9E7C-15F3A18AC8E6@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <012a01c8a02f$ea394cf0$4101a8c0@nowhereddc257a> Hal: All those Magritte/Chirico premature surrealist paintings. Shame you can't google for a visual. Why not? Google Magritte and/or Chirico and click on images. *********** I had a backchannel suggesting The Football Players (Les Joueurs de football), by Henri Rousseau. Not that, but it made me realise that what I had in my head was closer to Rousseau than either Magritte or de Chirico -- or Balthus! But that area -- faux naive? -- which rules out Balthus . So I think it's likely that what I am thinking of was Rousseau. Multiple curses -- so not Magritte / de Chirico / Delvaux / Balthus, but most probably Henri Rousseau -- or possibly even, god 'elp us, Toulouse Lautrec. :-( Robin [Actually, although while what I'm thinking of *wasn't painted by Paula Rego, it ought to have been! Is there a name for that style? Magic realism? I'm a sucker for narrative painting, from Botticelli on. R.] {Actually, maybe it bloody *was Paula Rego, and I saw it in an exhibition! Which would screw up a Web search, or even in a book, if it were never reproduced! But I'm pretty damn sure I'm remembering a reproduced image rather than a "live" painting (so to speak).} *********************** "Balthus is a painter about whom nothing is known." --Balthus Halvard Johnson -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From amyhappens at yahoo.com Thu Apr 17 11:33:53 2008 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king) Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2008 08:33:53 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Aime Cesaire, voice of French Black pride, dies Message-ID: <812424.7232.qm@web83307.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Thu 17 Apr 2008, 13:18 GMT By Astrid Wendlandt PARIS (Reuters) - French Caribbean poet Aime Cesaire,founding father of the "negritude" movement that celebrated blackconsciousness, died in his native Martinique, France'sMinistry of Culture said on Thursday. Cesaire, 94, who was mayor of the island's main city Fort-de-France for morethan half a century, was admitted to hospital last week suffering from heartand other problems. His writings offered insight into how France imposedits culture on its citizens of different origins in the early part of the 20thCentury. The theme still resonates in French politics today, as thecountry continues to struggle to integrate many of its residents of African andNorth African origin. In 2005, Cesaire refused to meet then French InteriorMinister Nicolas Sarkozy (now French president) over concerns that Sarkozy'sconservative UMP party had pushed for a law which proposed to recognise thepositive legacy of French colonial rule. The law was eventually repealed. Cesaire and African intellectual Leopold Senghor -- laterpresident of Senegal-- founded "The Black Student" in 1934, a journal that encouragedpeople to develop black identity. ANTI-COLONIAL VOICE IN THE 1960s The Caribbean writer rose to fame with his "Notebook ofa Return to the Native Land", written inthe late 1930s, in which he says "my negritude is neither tower norcathedral, it plunges into the red flesh of the soil." His poems expressed the degradation of black people in the Caribbean and describe the rediscovery of an Africansense of self. In his "Discourse on Colonialism", first published in1950, Cesaire compared the relationship between the coloniser and colonisedwith the Nazis and their victims. He was a mentor to fellow Martinican author Frantz Fanon,and their anti-colonial writings were a major influence in the headyintellectual climate of the 1960s and 1970s in France. The negritude movement was a counterpart to the Black Pridemovement in the United States,though it has been criticised for not being radical enough. Cesaire was also a friend of the French surrealist poetAndre Breton who had encouraged him to become a major voice of Surrealism. Cesaire's anti-colonial rhetoric did not prevent him from havinga long-lasting political career. After becoming mayor of Fort-de-France in 1945 at the age of 32, hewas elected deputy of parliament a year later, a post he held until the early1990s. A graduate of the prestigious French Ecole NormaleSuperieure -- unusual for a black Martinican in the 1930s -- he remained amember of the French communist party until the Soviet Hungarian repression of1956. Cesaire was born in 1913 in the small town of Basse-Pointe in Martinique.He married Suzanne Roussi in 1937, a gifted writer in her own right, with whomhe had six children. http://africa.reuters.com/top/news/usnBAN745797.html _______ http://www.amyking.org ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From editor at eratiopostmodernpoetry.com Thu Apr 17 11:52:36 2008 From: editor at eratiopostmodernpoetry.com (=?iso-8859-1?Q?e=B7ratio?=) Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2008 11:52:36 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] In the Bennett Tree Message-ID: <61097.68.173.235.170.1208447556.squirrel@webmail.web.com> e? Gregory Vincent St. Thomasino joins John M. Bennett ?In the Bennett Tree.? Collaborative poems, images, an introduction and a full-length critical essay pay homage to American poet John M. Bennett. http://www.eratiopostmodernpoetry.com/eratioeditions.html E?ratio Editions, a series of elegantly produced, quick loading e-chaps, is reading for poetry, innovative narrative prose and recollection and critical and theoretical essays. Please see the Contact page for further guidelines and where to send. Query editor with sample and proposal. E?ratio is reading for poetry for issue 11. E?ratio publishes quality poetry in the postmodern idioms with an emphasis on the intransitive. E?ratio Poetry Journal and E?ratio Editions, edited by Gregory Vincent St. Thomasino http://www.eratiopostmodernpoetry.com Thanks for reading. Peace. e? From amyhappens at yahoo.com Thu Apr 17 12:06:22 2008 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king) Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2008 09:06:22 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Aime Cesaire, voice of French Black pride, dies - Interview excerpts: Message-ID: <851426.92817.qm@web83306.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> >From The liberating power of words - interview with poet Aime Cesaire - Interview Aim? C?saire: I?ve always had the feeling that I was on a quest to reconquer something, my name, my country or myself. That is why my approach has in essence always been poetic. Because it seems to me that in a way that?s what poetry is. The reconquest of the self by the self?. I think it was Heidegger who said that words are the abode of being. There are many such quotations. I believe it was Rene Char, in his surrealist days, who said that words know much more about us than we know about them. I too believe that words have a revealing as well as a creative function? The Abbe Gregoire(1), Victor Schoelcher(2) and all those who spoke out and still speak out, who campaigned for human rights without distinction of race and against discrimination, these were my guides in life. They stand forever as representatives of the West?s great outpouring of magnanimity and solidarity, an essential contribution to the advancement of the ideas of practical universality and human values, ideas without which the world of today would not be able to see its way forward. I am forever a brother to them, at one with them in their combat and in their hopes? I really do believe in human beings. I find. something of myself in all cultures, in that extraordinary effort that all people, everywhere, have made - and for what purpose? Quite simply to make life livable! It is no easy matter to put up with life and face up to death. And this is what is so moving. We are all taking part in the same great adventure. That is what is meant by cultures, cultures that come together at some meeting-point?. I think it was in a passage in Hegel emphasizing the master-slave dialectic that we found this idea about specificity. He points out that the particular and the universal are not to be seen as opposites, that the universal is not the negation of the particular but is reached by a deeper exploration of the particular. The West told us that in order to be universal we had to start by denying that we were black. I, on the contrary, said to myself that the more we were black, the more universal we would be. It was a totally different approach. It was not a choice between alternatives, but an effort at reconciliation. Not a cold reconciliation, but reconciliation in the heat of the fire, an alchemical reconciliation if you like. The identity in question was an identity reconciled with the universal. For me there can never be any imprisonment within an identity. Identity means having roots, but it is also a transition, a transition to the universal?. We are far removed from that romantic idyll beneath the calm sea.These are angry, exasperated lands, lands that spit and spew, thatvomit forth life. That is what we must live up to. We must draw upon the creativity of this plot of land! We must keep it going and not sink into a slumber of acceptance and resignation. It is a kind of summons to us from history and from nature?. And so I have tried to reconcile those two worlds, because that was what had to be done. On the other hand, I feel just as relaxed about claiming kinship with the African griot and the African epic as about claiming kinship with Rimbaud and Lautreamont - and through them with Sophocles and Aeschylus! ? I have never harboured any illusions about the risks of history, be it in Africa, in Martinique, in the Americas or anywhere else. History is always dangerous, the world of history is a risky world; but it is up to us at any given moment to establish and readjust the hierarchy of dangers. ? At any rate, it is for me the fundamental mode of expression, and the world?s salvation depends on its ability to heed that voice. It is obvious that the voice of poetry has been less and less heeded during the century we have lived through, but it will come to be realized more and more that it is the only voice that can still be life-giving and that can provide a basis on which to build and reconstruct?. * And yet this century has not been one where ethics has triumphed, has it? A.C.: Certainly not, but one must speak out, whether one is heeded or not; we hold certain things to be fundamental, things that we cling to. Even if it means swimming against the tide, they must be upheld. In other words, poetry is for me a searching after truth and sincerity, sincerity outside of the world, outside of alien times. We seek it deep within ourselves, often despite ourselves, despite what we seem to be, within our innermost selves. Poetry wells up from the depths, with explosive force. The volcano again. No doubt I have reached the moment of crossing the great divide but I face it imperturbably in the knowledge of having put forward what I see as essential, in the knowledge, if you like, of having called out ahead of me and proclaimed the future aloud. That is what I believe I have done; somewhat disoriented though I am to find the seasons going backwards, as it were, that is how it is and that is what I believe to be my vocation. No resentments, none at all, no ill feelings but the inescapable solitude of the human condition. That is the most important thing. 1. Henri Gregoire (1750-1831), French ecclesiastic and politician, a leader of the movement in the Convention for the abolition of slavery. Ed. 2. French politician (1804-1893), campaigner for the abolition of slavery in the colonies, Deputy for Guadeloupe and Martinique. Ed. ?The liberating power of words - interview with poet Aime Cesaire - Interview http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1310/is_1997_May/ai_19557181/print _______ http://www.amyking.org ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From elemenope_productions at hotmail.com Thu Apr 17 22:58:33 2008 From: elemenope_productions at hotmail.com (R Dillon) Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2008 02:58:33 +0000 Subject: [New-Poetry] Anny in America! Message-ID: Anny! Arrange for a videographer to videotape your reading. The best type of video camera produces a film like veneer which under current conditions comes across like a lush dream. But even VHS will do. Then, send whatever you go to me and I'll broadcast it! Too bad Fellini checked out, he wd hv been perfect to follow you around like what he did with Terrance Stamp. Lots of infallible authorities visiting USA these days, the Pope, Anny, from BootLand. Are you taking that new Blimp airtransport service? Bit slow, but it saves on fossil fuel. (Not that I am afeared of burning fossil fuel. There's plenty more coming where that came from.) I'm starting an IPO using poems, Anny's, for carbon credits. R i c h a r d _________________________________________________________________ Going green? See the top 12 foods to eat organic. http://green.msn.com/galleries/photos/photos.aspx?gid=164&ocid=T003MSN51N1653A -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From elemenope_productions at hotmail.com Thu Apr 17 22:58:33 2008 From: elemenope_productions at hotmail.com (R Dillon) Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2008 02:58:33 +0000 Subject: [New-Poetry] Anny in America! Message-ID: Anny! Arrange for a videographer to videotape your reading. The best type of video camera produces a film like veneer which under current conditions comes across like a lush dream. But even VHS will do. Then, send whatever you go to me and I'll broadcast it! Too bad Fellini checked out, he wd hv been perfect to follow you around like what he did with Terrance Stamp. Lots of infallible authorities visiting USA these days, the Pope, Anny, from BootLand. Are you taking that new Blimp airtransport service? Bit slow, but it saves on fossil fuel. (Not that I am afeared of burning fossil fuel. There's plenty more coming where that came from.) I'm starting an IPO using poems, Anny's, for carbon credits. R i c h a r d _________________________________________________________________ Get in touch in an instant. Get Windows Live Messenger now. http://www.windowslive.com/messenger/overview.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_Refresh_getintouch_042008 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jfq at myuw.net Thu Apr 17 23:58:38 2008 From: jfq at myuw.net (Jason Quackenbush) Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2008 20:58:38 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Pinsky on Modern Poetry Message-ID: <3F7B214A-6008-4199-88BF-D1722A56E61D@myuw.net> http://www.slate.com/id/2189318/?from=rss I don't agree with Robert Pinsky on everything, and I don't care for his poetry, but i do think he's a hell of a critic and this article made me smile. From anny.ballardini at tin.it Fri Apr 18 10:04:51 2008 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2008 16:04:51 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Anny in America! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Were everybody like you Richard, I could finally sit back, write a couple of poems a day from here and ever after, Thank You! ----- Original Message ----- From: R Dillon To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Friday, April 18, 2008 4:58 AM Subject: [New-Poetry] Anny in America! Anny! Arrange for a videographer to videotape your reading. The best type of video camera produces a film like veneer which under current conditions comes across like a lush dream. But even VHS will do. Then, send whatever you go to me and I'll broadcast it! Too bad Fellini checked out, he wd hv been perfect to follow you around like what he did with Terrance Stamp. Lots of infallible authorities visiting USA these days, the Pope, Anny, from BootLand. Are you taking that new Blimp airtransport service? Bit slow, but it saves on fossil fuel. (Not that I am afeared of burning fossil fuel. There's plenty more coming where that came from.) I'm starting an IPO using poems, Anny's, for carbon credits. R i c h a r d ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Get in touch in an instant. Get Windows Live Messenger now. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.0/1382 - Release Date: 4/16/2008 5:34 PM -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd at ripon.edu Fri Apr 18 10:47:26 2008 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2008 09:47:26 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Akademy goes vizual Message-ID: <200804181447.m3IElRsr032290@mail69c35.nsolutionszone.com> The poem of the day from the Academy of American poets contains "adventurous" formatting, and is by M. NourbeSe Philip. It's posted here: http://poets.org/viewmedia.php/prmMID/20091? utm_source=poemaday_041808&utm_medium=newsletter&utm_campaign=content_li nk&utm_term=conent_mainpoemlink ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.mac.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Fri Apr 18 14:56:37 2008 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2008 14:56:37 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: Writers House - new webcast, Jerom Rothenberg In-Reply-To: <48071D29.80805@writing.upenn.edu> References: <48071D29.80805@writing.upenn.edu> Message-ID: <8CA6F9D1046CBA8-6CC-14DB@FWM-M39.sysops.aol.com> -----Original Message----- From: Al Filreis To: Al Filreis Sent: Thu, 17 Apr 2008 5:49 am Subject: Writers House - new webcast To those who have joined us for our webcasts: Please join us again - as I interview the great poet-ethnographer Jerry Rothenberg on Tuesday, April 29, for another in our series of live interactive webcasts. See below for more! - Al Filreis "The significance of Jerome Rothenberg's animating spirit looms larger every year. ... [He] is the ultimate 'hyphenated' poet: critic - anthropologist - editor? - anthologist - performer - teacher - translator, to each of which he brings an unbridled exuberance and an innovator's insistence on transforming a given state of affairs." - Charles Bernstein the Kelly Writers House Fellows program presents Jerome Rothenberg LIVE INTERACTIVE WEBCAST Tuesday morning, April 29, 10:30 AM (eastern time) [hosted at the Kelly Writers House, 3805 Locust Walk, Philadelphia] To register and receive information about connecting to the webcast stream, please write to whfellow at writing.upenn.edu Jerome Rothenberg is the author of over seventy books of poetry including Poland/1931 (1974), That Dada Strain (1983), New Selected Poems 1970-1985 (1986), Khurbn (1989), and most recently, The Case for Memory (2001) and A Book of Witness (2003) and Triptych, a book that takes the poet back to the issue of the Holocaust. Describing his poetry career as "an ongoing attempt to reinterpret the poetic past from the point of view of the present," he has also edited seven major assemblages of traditional and contemporary poetry, including Technicians of the Sacred (1985), comprised of tribal and oral poetry from Africa, America, Asia, Europe, and Oceania, Revolution of the Word (1974), a collection of American experimental poetry between the two world wars and two volumes of Poems for the Millennium (1995, 1998), which won the Josephine Miles Award in 1996. In 1999 and again in 2001 he was a co-organizer of the People's Poetry Gathering, a three-day festival, under joint sponsorship by City Lore and Poet's House in New York City. Rothenberg was elected to the World Academy of Poetry (UNESCO) in 2001. For more about Writers House Fellows: http://writing.upenn.edu/~whfellow/ . Kelly Writers House Fellows is made possible by a generous grant from Paul Kelly. -- ? Al Filreis Kelly Professor Faculty Dir., Kelly Writers House Dir., Center for Programs in Contemporary Writing University of Pennsylvania ? web: http://writing.upenn.edu/~afilreis/ blog: http://afilreis.blogspot.com/ get your daily Al: http://afilreis.blogspot.com/2007/09/your-daily-al.html listen to PoemTalk: http://poemtalkatkwh.blogspot.com/ subscribe: http://feeds.feedburner.com/afilreis ? ? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/jpeg Size: 10700 bytes Desc: not available URL: From grahamd at ripon.edu Fri Apr 18 15:13:40 2008 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2008 14:13:40 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Toot Message-ID: <200804181913.m3IJDfsZ025382@mail12c35.nsolutionszone.com> My poem "Air Is Not Nothing" is now up at *Qarrtsiluni*, as part of their ongoing "Nature in the Cracks" feature. Another poem, "The Dead Alive and Busy," was previously published as part of the same feature. http://qarrtsiluni.com/tag/david-graham/ Includes an audio file of me reading the poem, too. ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.mac.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at tin.it Fri Apr 18 17:46:42 2008 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2008 23:46:42 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Clinton Institute Summer School, July 13-19, 2008 Message-ID: >From: Liam Kennedy [mailto:liam.kennedy at ucd.ie] >Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2008 10:56 PM CLINTON INSTITUTE SUMMER SCHOOL UNIVERSITY COLLEGE DUBLIN 13-19 July 2008 Opening Lecture by Professor Stanley Fish (Florida International University) Sunday 13th July 2008 The UCD Clinton Institute Summer School will bring together scholars and graduate students from around the world to engage in wide-ranging discussion on interdisciplinary study of the United States. The School is aimed at advanced graduate students and junior faculty in the fields of American Studies, History, Political Sciences and Literary and Cultural Studies. The programme will offer participants the opportunity to work with distinguished figures in these fields and to investigate current developments in study of the United States and its global relations. The School's format will include daily workshop seminars and plenary lectures. Participants work with the School's core faculty in one of four week-long seminars. In 2008 the faculty will include Jonathan Auerbach (University of Maryland), Ruth Barton (Trinity College Dublin), Hamilton Carroll (University of Leeds), Kevin Gaines (University of Michigan), Donatella Izzo (University of Naples), Cindi Katz (City University of New York), Liam Kennedy (University College Dublin), Eric Lott (University of Virginia), Scott Lucas (University of Birmingham), Donald Pease (Dartmouth College), Werner Sollors (Harvard University) and Penny Von Eschen (University of Michigan). For further details, visit http://www.ucdclinton.ie/summerschool2008.htm, or contact Catherine Carey at Catherine.Carey at ucd.ie Professor Liam Kennedy Clinton Institute for American Studies University College Dublin Belfield Dublin 4 Ireland tel 00353 1 716 1561 From anny.ballardini at tin.it Fri Apr 18 17:47:36 2008 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2008 23:47:36 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] International Conference on Intercultural Studies, School of Accounting andAdministration (ISCA-IPP), Pporto, Portugal, December 9, 2008. Message-ID: >From: Clara Sarmento Sent: Friday, April 11, 2008 12:34 PM I International Conference on Intercultural Studies ISCAP, 9 December 2008 http://www.iscap.ipp.pt/~cei/congresso.htm The Centre for Intercultural Studies (www.iscap.ipp.pt/~cei/) of the Polytechnic Institute of Oporto's School of Accounting and Administration (ISCA-IPP) organizes and hosts the I International Conference on Intercultural Studies, on 9 December 2008. CEI invites all national and international researchers who develop an active interest for the vast field of Intercultural Studies to submit 20 minute paper proposals in Portuguese, English, French, German or Spanish with: title, subject area and abstract (250 words) and bionote (100 words), until 15 June 2008, to: cei at iscap.ipp.pt Paper proposals should cover, but NOT BE RESTRICTED to, one of the following broad subject areas: Representations of Cultures Journeys through Cultures Translation and Interpreting Compared Contemporary Legal Systems Tourism and Intercultural Studies Gender and Intercultural Studies Learning / Teaching Languages and Cultures Intra-Cultural Studies The Portuguese Language in the World: New Approaches Information Systems and Intercultural Studies Economic and Cultural Globalization Intercultural Studies in History / History and Intercultural Studies Papers that are accepted and actually read at the Conference will be selected and considered for national and international publication. Further details at the Conference's website: http://www.iscap.ipp.pt/~cei/congresso.htm Best regards, Clara Sarmento From jforjames at aol.com Fri Apr 18 19:39:47 2008 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2008 19:39:47 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] World Po: Halifax Message-ID: <8CA6FC49F62E8C0-1748-2EA5@webmail-dd14.sysops.aol.com> http://www.cbc.ca/wordsatlarge/blog/2008/04/halifax_poet_shauntay_grant_ho.html Halifax poet Shauntay Grant hosts the National Poetry Face-Off on CBC Radio April 21-24 Posted by Rosie Fernandez on April 18 at 12:03 AM I've been to dozens of poetry shows. But there is one I will never forget. About 6:50 p.m. on a chilly spring evening. Small cafe in downtown Halifax. Audience of about forty. Ten minutes to show time. And I get a call from a friend. A poet. A brilliant poet. He tells me he's quitting poetry. And I damn near lose my mind. -- Haver you ever been to Halifax? I was there for the first time last summer. It's less than hour flight from Boston. And it's a lot like a scaled-down, in good way, San Francisco. Finnegan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Fri Apr 18 19:51:39 2008 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2008 19:51:39 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: Poem of the Week- Adrian Matejka In-Reply-To: <002501c8a190$667f23f0$6601a8c0@Schlueter> References: <002501c8a190$667f23f0$6601a8c0@Schlueter> Message-ID: <8CA6FC647CD097C-1748-2EE0@webmail-dd14.sysops.aol.com> Sent: Fri, 18 Apr 2008 4:11 pm Subject: Poem of the Week- Adrian Matejka Poem Of The Week?? 04-18-08? ? ???????????????????? Adrian Matejka ? ???????????????????? Adrian Matejka ? Autobiography as Language ? ? Blame military life, family scuttling from Los Angeles to Germany, ? back again before my words could find the vocal fold of English. ? Blame the bilinguality of chance. German first-- ham fisted umlauts, ? non-negotiable consonants stacked by the hubbub of need.? Blame ? the new neighborhood, four parts Mexican, no parts half-blood. ? Or blame me, cardboard color heavier than a sneaker in the back, fist ? that makes the jaw clack.? If the?Mexicans bum-rushing me before school ? was bad, my mother making them lunches was worse.? You know they ? don't have any food, pushing me out. Peanut butter and jelly in tow for Alex, ? Chucho, and John: brawlers who would rather swing than understand why I looked ? like them, but sounded like the man at the newspaper stand.? Blame pain, ? turning everyone a ripe shade.? Language comes before crawling.? Blame that. ? ? Crap Shoot ? ? Three of us, in a circle, shooting craps.? Instead of crumpled bills or food stamps, we used an army man, ? a Dukes of Hazzard matchbox car and Coca-Cola bottle caps, all with "C" underneath.? Never the "L" ? that would have won us a million, that hook of phonics keeping my friends from seeing Mo run ? from the apartment next to us. But they saw White Boy come after, shotgun in the crook bursting ? the door like Superman, wood and hinges flying like a drunk dad after kids.? They saw him aim that shotgun, ? catch Mo's back with two.? They saw that man break apart on the pavement like a carton of milk.? White Boy: Bring ? back my shit, muthafucka and Mom dragging me inside, her sweating fingers braceleted around my wrist. ? ? Paris, Texas (1954) ? ? White faces spring ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? from the crowd: dandelions in the front lawn. ? Ropes so tight I can feel flies prowl fibers. Their legs, a twisting frenzy. ? Police uniforms in flies' ??????????????? eyes, floating like fish breath from the river's ? bottom, so I stay down, ??? ??? ??? crumbs.? Someone near ? hawks soda and beer to white people splitting ribs, ??? ??? ??? arms against the platform's ? splintering wood. Nose mashed into lip, ??? ??? ??? unforgiving as the sticks ? and fists spilling ????????????over my face.? You ????????????won't be touching ????????????another white woman. ? A dirty child, dirty yellow hair, perched on father's shoulders. ? She licks a cone wet ??????????????? with sugar diamonds, ice cream dripping father's shirt sleeve. ? Let me have five minutes with that black son of a bitch. ????????????????????Re-routed trains bloating the sweaty crowd. ? Some woman curses my ape mother.? Sheriff pulls a knife. ? He cuts my arm. My skin, ??? ??? ??? ??? the slow fire ? around the break.? My arm. ? The hangman:? Nigger, you gonna die slow. ? The man cuts my chest. ? My heart beating, ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? hanging outside. He starts sawing. ? Pieces of skin in strips like bacon.? ? ????????? -from The Devil's Garden, 2003 ? ? ? Adrian Matejka is the author of The Devil?s Garden (Alice James Books, 2003). He is a graduate of the Southern Illinois University Carbondale MFA program and is a Cave Canem Fellow. His work has recently appeared in Callaloo, Crab Orchard Review, Gulf Coast, and Indiana Review. He currently serves as a Creative Writing professor at Southern Illinois University Edwardsville. ? ? Autobiography As Language, an Interview with Adrian Matejka ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? -by Andrew McFadyen-Ketchum ? ? Andrew McFadyen-Ketchum: One thing I like in particular about ?Autobiography as Language? is that we immediately understand that this ?blame? is associated with much more than simply the speaker?s way of talking.? Maybe it?s the repetition of the word, blame, and how that repetition is used to open up the poem to its many small discoveries about the self, beginning with an investigation of language and migrating into discussions of poverty, race, and kindness in the face of cruelty. ? I can imagine a million different ways that you could have approached this aspect of childhood.? Do you mind discussing how you came to this poem? ? Adrian Matejka: I wrote the poem my first summer as a fellow at Cave Canem, after several days of thinking about racial definitions within the African-American community. The poem was, in part, my attempt to reconsider the things I knew to be true from my childhood. I am African American even though my mother is white. This distinction is very important to me now, but when I was a child, race was of less consequence than money in the pocket. ? Race became part of the neighborhood conversation by default because everyone in our neighborhood was broke. It was even more of an issue for me because we were poor and my father was absent. As a result, my racial identity was based on my say so, rather than some identifiable phenotype or patented dance move. The idea of blame came from both this conviction and this misunderstanding. ? AMK: Seeing that this is the first poem of your book, The Devil?s Garden, which is largely about childhood and identity, does ?Autobiography as Language? serve as a sort of anthem for the poems that follow it? ? AM: ?Autobiography as Language? is anthematic in the sense that I wrote it specifically to be the first poem in the book. The original version of The Devil?s Garden was a finalist for the Bakeless Prize judged by Yusef Komunyakaa. At Cave Canem, I had the good fortune of spending time with Yusef and he was gracious enough to explain to me why the initial version of the book didn?t do what I wanted it to. He pointed out that beginning poem wasn?t successful in articulating the ideas in the book. ?Write a poem that does,? Yusef told me. ?Autobiography as Language? is that poem. ? AMK: ?Crap Shoot? is probably my favorite poem in the book.? It unfolds with such graceful narrative detail (?Three of us shooting craps,? ?instead of crumpled bills?an army man?), and then, suddenly, Mo running from the apartment, White Boy shooting him, and the speaker?s mother pulling him to safety, ?her?fingers braceleted around my wrist.? ? This fluidity of story telling is an aspect of narration that a young speaker could not possible access and, yet, the visuals in the poem are clearly seen through the eyes of a young boy.? I?m wondering how you balance your adult voice with a childhood memory. ? AM: Thanks for the kind words about the poem. ?Crap Shoot? was culled from an extended nonfiction piece I wrote while I was in graduate school in Carbondale. The essay was a first person narrative from the perspective of a child. It didn?t take long for me to realize that the essay wasn?t any good. But there were some important, salvageable happenings in the narrative. Those moments became ?Crap Shoot,? ?English B,? ?The Meaning of rpms,? and ?Peace and Soul.? Writing that unsuccessful nonfiction essay resulted in some of meatier autobiographical poems forThe Devil?s Garden. ? AMK: Is this poem intended as an interaction between these two perspectives?a sort of lyricism of story, memory, time, perspective? ? AM: When I transformed the prose into a poem, I hoped to create a narrative about childhood that was bigger than our neighborhood or being broke. I hoped that there would be something in the happening?shooting craps, the community children create, the projection screen TV that my neighbors stole out of White Boy?s apartment after the poem ends?that would be resonant. I showed one of the early drafts of the poem to my mother and her response was, ?That?s one way of remembering it.? It?s like Borges said, ?Things belong to the past quite quickly.? ? AMK:? Do you think that when we talk about these poems we should discuss the narrator as a speaker or as you, Adrian Matejka, the poet speaking from his own experience? ? AM: ?It can sometimes be difficult to differentiate the poet from the speaker when ?I? is being used these days. I think the confusion partially comes from the solipsism license passed down by the confessionalists. When the poet?s internal diary becomes the point of the poem, rather than the place the diary inhabits within the poetic dialogue, we are left with little to work with as readers. ? This muddy point of view can be problematic, but William Matthews said, ?the ?personal? and ?impersonal? are intricately braided, and thus both difficult and perhaps not even useful to separate, in the way a craft?let?s say the craft of poetry?is practiced.? I believe him. ? For the sake of accuracy, there needs to be a separation of poet and speaker in my poems. I?m not egocentric enough to believe the things that have happened to me are important enough on their own to hold the center of poems. I do believe they are connected somehow to things larger than me and while several of the poems in The Devil?s Garden had autobiographical germination, I was pretty liberal with the events within the text. I?d rather end up with an engaging poem that reframes the truth in some creative manner than a historical document.?? ? AMK: What are your thoughts on biography, autobiography, and persona in contemporary poetry? ? AM: I?m a big fan of biography as fulcrum for poetry. I really admire poets who find beauty and necessity in history. In the African-American literary scene, there are several writers who revisit history to reframe the poetic discussion. Poets like Tyehimba Jess, Quryash Ali Lansana, Marilyn Nelson, and Frank X. Walker utilize poetry as a space for historical discourse. ? They seek a new view of important African American historical icons such as George Washington Carver, Leadbelly, and Harriet Tubman. Most of these poems are persona and the resultant work is in keeping with Adrienne Rich?s ideas of cultural definition. That is to say one?s definition should come from contrasting with the self, not from contrasting the oppressor. Right now, I?m working a project in this historic persona vein that centers on Jack Johnson, the first African-American heavyweight champion of the world. Hopefully, the end result will contribute something to this dialogue. ? AMK: ?Paris, Texas (1954)? is obviously not a poem about your own experience.? Do you mind telling us a little bit about this speaker and where this poem came from? ? AM: The genesis of the poem was a very depressing documentary about lynching I watched about 15 years ago. I don?t remember the title or much other content from the documentary, but I jotted down some notes at the time about the lynching that the poem refers to.? I wrote the original draft of the poem from the notes. ? When I later tried to find additional information about the specific lynching I referenced, I wasn?t able to. I?m not sure if I am a bad note-taker or if I looked in the wrong places, but I couldn?t find any mention of the events in 1954. I decided to borrow authority from Earnest Gaines?s Autobiography of Miss Jane Pitman and work the imaginary in a real setting. In the end, the poem became a hybrid of fact and fiction.? ? AMK: The last images in this poem are pretty intense.? The heart beating outside its chest.? The ?skin in strips like bacon.?? I think it?s impressive how the poem tells its story and conveys its message without an external voice, without injections, but with images that speak for themselves. ? Are images your preferred method for speaking in such a way in a poem? ? AM: Your question speaks to one of the primary concerns of the poem. When I decided to write from first person, I had massive problems with the kinetics of the poem?what the speaker would see, what he would hear in such a situation, etc. The event itself seemed to resist the narrative I thought would be necessary for context. Image seemed to be the best way to create the scene. ? As I look at it now, the major shortcoming of ?Paris, Texas (1954)? is the first person perspective. If I?d written it yesterday, I would have used shifting perspectives with more extravagant breaks to attend to a 3 dimensional sense of imagery, rather than a first person one. ?Maybe my 2008 approach wouldn?t have worked, but I had a hard time then and have an even harder time now figuring out how anyone?even the narrator I am trying to create sympathy for?would be able to take the described abuse and still remain lucid. At times the poem is successful. I think the end works, but some of the necessary narrative in the poem seems less effective to me now than it did when I wrote it. AMK: Would you call this poem a poem of witness? ? AM: I hope so. The fact that lynching and other racially-motivated atrocities, like what happened in 1998 to James Byrd, Jr., are still options for some people begs, the question of evolution. But if we insist that things are better without acknowledging the fact that things haven?t changed all that much for some corners of the population, then we?ve really lost it.?? ? AMK: Thank you. ? AM: Thank you. Keep doing what you are doing. Adrian Matejka is the author of The Devil?s Garden (Alice James Books, 2003). He is a graduate of the Southern Illinois University Carbondale MFA program and is a Cave Canem Fellow. His work has recently appeared in Callaloo, Crab Orchard Review, Gulf Coast, and Indiana Review. He currently serves as a Creative Writing professor at Southern Illinois University Edwardsville. ? ? Autobiography As Language, an Interview with Adrian Matejka ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? -by Andrew McFadyen-Ketchum ? ? Andrew McFadyen-Ketchum: One thing I like in particular about ?Autobiography as Language? is that we immediately understand that this ?blame? is associated with much more than simply the speaker?s way of talking.? Maybe it?s the repetition of the word, blame, and how that repetition is used to open up the poem to its many small discoveries about the self, beginning with an investigation of language and migrating into discussions of poverty, race, and kindness in the face of cruelty. ? I can imagine a million different ways that you could have approached this aspect of childhood.? Do you mind discussing how you came to this poem? ? Adrian Matejka: I wrote the poem my first summer as a fellow at Cave Canem, after several days of thinking about racial definitions within the African-American community. The poem was, in part, my attempt to reconsider the things I knew to be true from my childhood. I am African American even though my mother is white. This distinction is very important to me now, but when I was a child, race was of less consequence than money in the pocket. ? Race became part of the neighborhood conversation by default because everyone in our neighborhood was broke. It was even more of an issue for me because we were poor and my father was absent. As a result, my racial identity was based on my say so, rather than some identifiable phenotype or patented dance move. The idea of blame came from both this conviction and this misunderstanding. ? AMK: Seeing that this is the first poem of your book, The Devil?s Garden, which is largely about childhood and identity, does ?Autobiography as Language? serve as a sort of anthem for the poems that follow it? ? AM: ?Autobiography as Language? is anthematic in the sense that I wrote it specifically to be the first poem in the book. The original version of The Devil?s Garden was a finalist for the Bakeless Prize judged by Yusef Komunyakaa. At Cave Canem, I had the good fortune of spending time with Yusef and he was gracious enough to explain to me why the initial version of the book didn?t do what I wanted it to. He pointed out that beginning poem wasn?t successful in articulating the ideas in the book. ?Write a poem that does,? Yusef told me. ?Autobiography as Language? is that poem. ? AMK: ?Crap Shoot? is probably my favorite poem in the book.? It unfolds with such graceful narrative detail (?Three of us shooting craps,? ?instead of crumpled bills?an army man?), and then, suddenly, Mo running from the apartment, White Boy shooting him, and the speaker?s mother pulling him to safety, ?her?fingers braceleted around my wrist.? ? This fluidity of story telling is an aspect of narration that a young speaker could not possible access and, yet, the visuals in the poem are clearly seen through the eyes of a young boy.? I?m wondering how you balance your adult voice with a childhood memory. ? AM: Thanks for the kind words about the poem. ?Crap Shoot? was culled from an extended nonfiction piece I wrote while I was in graduate school in Carbondale. The essay was a first person narrative from the perspective of a child. It didn?t take long for me to realize that the essay wasn?t any good. But there were some important, salvageable happenings in the narrative. Those moments became ?Crap Shoot,? ?English B,? ?The Meaning of rpms,? and ?Peace and Soul.? Writing that unsuccessful nonfiction essay resulted in some of meatier autobiographical poems forThe Devil?s Garden. ? AMK: Is this poem intended as an interaction between these two perspectives?a sort of lyricism of story, memory, time, perspective? ? AM: When I transformed the prose into a poem, I hoped to create a narrative about childhood that was bigger than our neighborhood or being broke. I hoped that there would be something in the happening?shooting craps, the community children create, the projection screen TV that my neighbors stole out of White Boy?s apartment after the poem ends?that would be resonant. I showed one of the early drafts of the poem to my mother and her response was, ?That?s one way of remembering it.? It?s like Borges said, ?Things belong to the past quite quickly.? ? AMK:? Do you think that when we talk about these poems we should discuss the narrator as a speaker or as you, Adrian Matejka, the poet speaking from his own experience? ? AM: ?It can sometimes be difficult to differentiate the poet from the speaker when ?I? is being used these days. I think the confusion partially comes from the solipsism license passed down by the confessionalists. When the poet?s internal diary becomes the point of the poem, rather than the place the diary inhabits within the poetic dialogue, we are left with little to work with as readers. ? This muddy point of view can be problematic, but William Matthews said, ?the ?personal? and ?impersonal? are intricately braided, and thus both difficult and perhaps not even useful to separate, in the way a craft?let?s say the craft of poetry?is practiced.? I believe him. ? For the sake of accuracy, there needs to be a separation of poet and speaker in my poems. I?m not egocentric enough to believe the things that have happened to me are important enough on their own to hold the center of poems. I do believe they are connected somehow to things larger than me and while several of the poems in The Devil?s Garden had autobiographical germination, I was pretty liberal with the events within the text. I?d rather end up with an engaging poem that reframes the truth in some creative manner than a historical document.?? ? AMK: What are your thoughts on biography, autobiography, and persona in contemporary poetry? ? AM: I?m a big fan of biography as fulcrum for poetry. I really admire poets who find beauty and necessity in history. In the African-American literary scene, there are several writers who revisit history to reframe the poetic discussion. Poets like Tyehimba Jess, Quryash Ali Lansana, Marilyn Nelson, and Frank X. Walker utilize poetry as a space for historical discourse. ? They seek a new view of important African American historical icons such as George Washington Carver, Leadbelly, and Harriet Tubman. Most of these poems are persona and the resultant work is in keeping with Adrienne Rich?s ideas of cultural definition. That is to say one?s definition should come from contrasting with the self, not from contrasting the oppressor. Right now, I?m working a project in this historic persona vein that centers on Jack Johnson, the first African-American heavyweight champion of the world. Hopefully, the end result will contribute something to this dialogue. ? AMK: ?Paris, Texas (1954)? is obviously not a poem about your own experience.? Do you mind telling us a little bit about this speaker and where this poem came from? ? AM: The genesis of the poem was a very depressing documentary about lynching I watched about 15 years ago. I don?t remember the title or much other content from the documentary, but I jotted down some notes at the time about the lynching that the poem refers to.? I wrote the original draft of the poem from the notes. ? When I later tried to find additional information about the specific lynching I referenced, I wasn?t able to. I?m not sure if I am a bad note-taker or if I looked in the wrong places, but I couldn?t find any mention of the events in 1954. I decided to borrow authority from Earnest Gaines?s Autobiography of Miss Jane Pitman and work the imaginary in a real setting. In the end, the poem became a hybrid of fact and fiction.? ? AMK: The last images in this poem are pretty intense.? The heart beating outside its chest.? The ?skin in strips like bacon.?? I think it?s impressive how the poem tells its story and conveys its message without an external voice, without injections, but with images that speak for themselves. ? Are images your preferred method for speaking in such a way in a poem? ? AM: Your question speaks to one of the primary concerns of the poem. When I decided to write from first person, I had massive problems with the kinetics of the poem?what the speaker would see, what he would hear in such a situation, etc. The event itself seemed to resist the narrative I thought would be necessary for context. Image seemed to be the best way to create the scene. ? As I look at it now, the major shortcoming of ?Paris, Texas (1954)? is the first person perspective. If I?d written it yesterday, I would have used shifting perspectives with more extravagant breaks to attend to a 3 dimensional sense of imagery, rather than a first person one. ?Maybe my 2008 approach wouldn?t have worked, but I had a hard time then and have an even harder time now figuring out how anyone?even the narrator I am trying to create sympathy for?would be able to take the described abuse and still remain lucid. At times the poem is successful. I think the end works, but some of the necessary narrative in the poem seems less effective to me now than it did when I wrote it. AMK: Would you call this poem a poem of witness? ? AM: I hope so. The fact that lynching and other racially-motivated atrocities, like what happened in 1998 to James Byrd, Jr., are still options for some people begs, the question of evolution. But if we insist that things are better without acknowledging the fact that things haven?t changed all that much for some corners of the population, then we?ve really lost it.?? ? AMK: Thank you. ? AM: Thank you. Keep doing what you are doing. ? Autobiography as Language ? ? Blame military life, family scuttling from Los Angeles to Germany, ? back again before my words could find the vocal fold of English. ? Blame the bilinguality of chance. German first-- ham fisted umlauts, ? non-negotiable consonants stacked by the hubbub of need.? Blame ? the new neighborhood, four parts Mexican, no parts half-blood. ? Or blame me, cardboard color heavier than a sneaker in the back, fist ? that makes the jaw clack.? If the?Mexicans bum-rushing me before school ? was bad, my mother making them lunches was worse.? You know they ? don't have any food, pushing me out. Peanut butter and jelly in tow for Alex, ? Chucho, and John: brawlers who would rather swing than understand why I looked ? like them, but sounded like the man at the newspaper stand.? Blame pain, ? turning everyone a ripe shade.? Language comes before crawling.? Blame that. ? ? Crap Shoot ? ? Three of us, in a circle, shooting craps.? Instead of crumpled bills or food stamps, we used an army man, ? a Dukes of Hazzard matchbox car and Coca-Cola bottle caps, all with "C" underneath.? Never the "L" ? that would have won us a million, that hook of phonics keeping my friends from seeing Mo run ? from the apartment next to us. But they saw White Boy come after, shotgun in the crook bursting ? the door like Superman, wood and hinges flying like a drunk dad after kids.? They saw him aim that shotgun, ? catch Mo's back with two.? They saw that man break apart on the pavement like a carton of milk.? White Boy: Bring ? back my shit, muthafucka and Mom dragging me inside, her sweating fingers braceleted around my wrist. ? ? Paris, Texas (1954) ? ? White faces spring ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? from the crowd: dandelions in the front lawn. ? Ropes so tight I can feel flies prowl fibers. Their legs, a twisting frenzy. ? Police uniforms in flies' ??????????????? eyes, floating like fish breath from the river's ? bottom, so I stay down, ??? ??? ??? crumbs.? Someone near ? hawks soda and beer to white people splitting ribs, ??? ??? ??? arms against the platform's ? splintering wood. Nose mashed into lip, ??? ??? ??? unforgiving as the sticks ? and fists spilling ????????????over my face.? You ????????????won't be touching ????????????another white woman. ? A dirty child, dirty yellow hair, perched on father's shoulders. ? She licks a cone wet ??????????????? with sugar diamonds, ice cream dripping father's shirt sleeve. ? Let me have five minutes with that black son of a bitch. ????????????????????Re-routed trains bloating the sweaty crowd. ? Some woman curses my ape mother.? Sheriff pulls a knife. ? He cuts my arm. My skin, ??? ??? ??? ??? the slow fire ? around the break.? My arm. ? The hangman:? Nigger, you gonna die slow. ? The man cuts my chest. ? My heart beating, ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? hanging outside. He starts sawing. ? Pieces of skin in strips like bacon.? ? ????????? -from The Devil's Garden, 2003 ? ? ? Adrian Matejka is the author of The Devil?s Garden (Alice James Books, 2003). He is a graduate of the Southern Illinois University Carbondale MFA program and is a Cave Canem Fellow. His work has recently appeared in Callaloo, Crab Orchard Review, Gulf Coast, and Indiana Review. He currently serves as a Creative Writing professor at Southern Illinois University Edwardsville. ? ? Autobiography As Language, an Interview with Adrian Matejka ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? -by Andrew McFadyen-Ketchum ? ? Andrew McFadyen-Ketchum: One thing I like in particular about ?Autobiography as Language? is that we immediately understand that this ?blame? is associated with much more than simply the speaker?s way of talking.? Maybe it?s the repetition of the word, blame, and how that repetition is used to open up the poem to its many small discoveries about the self, beginning with an investigation of language and migrating into discussions of poverty, race, and kindness in the face of cruelty. ? I can imagine a million different ways that you could have approached this aspect of childhood.? Do you mind discussing how you came to this poem? ? Adrian Matejka: I wrote the poem my first summer as a fellow at Cave Canem, after several days of thinking about racial definitions within the African-American community. The poem was, in part, my attempt to reconsider the things I knew to be true from my childhood. I am African American even though my mother is white. This distinction is very important to me now, but when I was a child, race was of less consequence than money in the pocket. ? Race became part of the neighborhood conversation by default because everyone in our neighborhood was broke. It was even more of an issue for me because we were poor and my father was absent. As a result, my racial identity was based on my say so, rather than some identifiable phenotype or patented dance move. The idea of blame came from both this conviction and this misunderstanding. ? AMK: Seeing that this is the first poem of your book, The Devil?s Garden, which is largely about childhood and identity, does ?Autobiography as Language? serve as a sort of anthem for the poems that follow it? ? AM: ?Autobiography as Language? is anthematic in the sense that I wrote it specifically to be the first poem in the book. The original version of The Devil?s Garden was a finalist for the Bakeless Prize judged by Yusef Komunyakaa. At Cave Canem, I had the good fortune of spending time with Yusef and he was gracious enough to explain to me why the initial version of the book didn?t do what I wanted it to. He pointed out that beginning poem wasn?t successful in articulating the ideas in the book. ?Write a poem that does,? Yusef told me. ?Autobiography as Language? is that poem. ? AMK: ?Crap Shoot? is probably my favorite poem in the book.? It unfolds with such graceful narrative detail (?Three of us shooting craps,? ?instead of crumpled bills?an army man?), and then, suddenly, Mo running from the apartment, White Boy shooting him, and the speaker?s mother pulling him to safety, ?her?fingers braceleted around my wrist.? ? This fluidity of story telling is an aspect of narration that a young speaker could not possible access and, yet, the visuals in the poem are clearly seen through the eyes of a young boy.? I?m wondering how you balance your adult voice with a childhood memory. ? AM: Thanks for the kind words about the poem. ?Crap Shoot? was culled from an extended nonfiction piece I wrote while I was in graduate school in Carbondale. The essay was a first person narrative from the perspective of a child. It didn?t take long for me to realize that the essay wasn?t any good. But there were some important, salvageable happenings in the narrative. Those moments became ?Crap Shoot,? ?English B,? ?The Meaning of rpms,? and ?Peace and Soul.? Writing that unsuccessful nonfiction essay resulted in some of meatier autobiographical poems forThe Devil?s Garden. ? AMK: Is this poem intended as an interaction between these two perspectives?a sort of lyricism of story, memory, time, perspective? ? AM: When I transformed the prose into a poem, I hoped to create a narrative about childhood that was bigger than our neighborhood or being broke. I hoped that there would be something in the happening?shooting craps, the community children create, the projection screen TV that my neighbors stole out of White Boy?s apartment after the poem ends?that would be resonant. I showed one of the early drafts of the poem to my mother and her response was, ?That?s one way of remembering it.? It?s like Borges said, ?Things belong to the past quite quickly.? ? AMK:? Do you think that when we talk about these poems we should discuss the narrator as a speaker or as you, Adrian Matejka, the poet speaking from his own experience? ? AM: ?It can sometimes be difficult to differentiate the poet from the speaker when ?I? is being used these days. I think the confusion partially comes from the solipsism license passed down by the confessionalists. When the poet?s internal diary becomes the point of the poem, rather than the place the diary inhabits within the poetic dialogue, we are left with little to work with as readers. ? This muddy point of view can be problematic, but William Matthews said, ?the ?personal? and ?impersonal? are intricately braided, and thus both difficult and perhaps not even useful to separate, in the way a craft?let?s say the craft of poetry?is practiced.? I believe him. ? For the sake of accuracy, there needs to be a separation of poet and speaker in my poems. I?m not egocentric enough to believe the things that have happened to me are important enough on their own to hold the center of poems. I do believe they are connected somehow to things larger than me and while several of the poems in The Devil?s Garden had autobiographical germination, I was pretty liberal with the events within the text. I?d rather end up with an engaging poem that reframes the truth in some creative manner than a historical document.?? ? AMK: What are your thoughts on biography, autobiography, and persona in contemporary poetry? ? AM: I?m a big fan of biography as fulcrum for poetry. I really admire poets who find beauty and necessity in history. In the African-American literary scene, there are several writers who revisit history to reframe the poetic discussion. Poets like Tyehimba Jess, Quryash Ali Lansana, Marilyn Nelson, and Frank X. Walker utilize poetry as a space for historical discourse. ? They seek a new view of important African American historical icons such as George Washington Carver, Leadbelly, and Harriet Tubman. Most of these poems are persona and the resultant work is in keeping with Adrienne Rich?s ideas of cultural definition. That is to say one?s definition should come from contrasting with the self, not from contrasting the oppressor. Right now, I?m working a project in this historic persona vein that centers on Jack Johnson, the first African-American heavyweight champion of the world. Hopefully, the end result will contribute something to this dialogue. ? AMK: ?Paris, Texas (1954)? is obviously not a poem about your own experience.? Do you mind telling us a little bit about this speaker and where this poem came from? ? AM: The genesis of the poem was a very depressing documentary about lynching I watched about 15 years ago. I don?t remember the title or much other content from the documentary, but I jotted down some notes at the time about the lynching that the poem refers to.? I wrote the original draft of the poem from the notes. ? When I later tried to find additional information about the specific lynching I referenced, I wasn?t able to. I?m not sure if I am a bad note-taker or if I looked in the wrong places, but I couldn?t find any mention of the events in 1954. I decided to borrow authority from Earnest Gaines?s Autobiography of Miss Jane Pitman and work the imaginary in a real setting. In the end, the poem became a hybrid of fact and fiction.? ? AMK: The last images in this poem are pretty intense.? The heart beating outside its chest.? The ?skin in strips like bacon.?? I think it?s impressive how the poem tells its story and conveys its message without an external voice, without injections, but with images that speak for themselves. ? Are images your preferred method for speaking in such a way in a poem? ? AM: Your question speaks to one of the primary concerns of the poem. When I decided to write from first person, I had massive problems with the kinetics of the poem?what the speaker would see, what he would hear in such a situation, etc. The event itself seemed to resist the narrative I thought would be necessary for context. Image seemed to be the best way to create the scene. ? As I look at it now, the major shortcoming of ?Paris, Texas (1954)? is the first person perspective. If I?d written it yesterday, I would have used shifting perspectives with more extravagant breaks to attend to a 3 dimensional sense of imagery, rather than a first person one. ?Maybe my 2008 approach wouldn?t have worked, but I had a hard time then and have an even harder time now figuring out how anyone?even the narrator I am trying to create sympathy for?would be able to take the described abuse and still remain lucid. At times the poem is successful. I think the end works, but some of the necessary narrative in the poem seems less effective to me now than it did when I wrote it. AMK: Would you call this poem a poem of witness? ? AM: I hope so. The fact that lynching and other racially-motivated atrocities, like what happened in 1998 to James Byrd, Jr., are still options for some people begs, the question of evolution. But if we insist that things are better without acknowledging the fact that things haven?t changed all that much for some corners of the population, then we?ve really lost it.?? ? AMK: Thank you. ? AM: Thank you. Keep doing what you are doing. ? Autobiography as Language ? ? Blame military life, family scuttling from Los Angeles to Germany, ? back again before my words could find the vocal fold of English. ? Blame the bilinguality of chance. German first-- ham fisted umlauts, ? non-negotiable consonants stacked by the hubbub of need.? Blame ? the new neighborhood, four parts Mexican, no parts half-blood. ? Or blame me, cardboard color heavier than a sneaker in the back, fist ? that makes the jaw clack.? If the?Mexicans bum-rushing me before school ? was bad, my mother making them lunches was worse.? You know they ? don't have any food, pushing me out. Peanut butter and jelly in tow for Alex, ? Chucho, and John: brawlers who would rather swing than understand why I looked ? like them, but sounded like the man at the newspaper stand.? Blame pain, ? turning everyone a ripe shade.? Language comes before crawling.? Blame that. ? ? Crap Shoot ? ? Three of us, in a circle, shooting craps.? Instead of crumpled bills or food stamps, we used an army man, ? a Dukes of Hazzard matchbox car and Coca-Cola bottle caps, all with "C" underneath.? Never the "L" ? that would have won us a million, that hook of phonics keeping my friends from seeing Mo run ? from the apartment next to us. But they saw White Boy come after, shotgun in the crook bursting ? the door like Superman, wood and hinges flying like a drunk dad after kids.? They saw him aim that shotgun, ? catch Mo's back with two.? They saw that man break apart on the pavement like a carton of milk.? White Boy: Bring ? back my shit, muthafucka and Mom dragging me inside, her sweating fingers braceleted around my wrist. ? ? Paris, Texas (1954) ? ? White faces spring ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? from the crowd: dandelions in the front lawn. ? Ropes so tight I can feel flies prowl fibers. Their legs, a twisting frenzy. ? Police uniforms in flies' ??????????????? eyes, floating like fish breath from the river's ? bottom, so I stay down, ??? ??? ??? crumbs.? Someone near ? hawks soda and beer to white people splitting ribs, ??? ??? ??? arms against the platform's ? splintering wood. Nose mashed into lip, ??? ??? ??? unforgiving as the sticks ? and fists spilling ????????????over my face.? You ????????????won't be touching ????????????another white woman. ? A dirty child, dirty yellow hair, perched on father's shoulders. ? She licks a cone wet ??????????????? with sugar diamonds, ice cream dripping father's shirt sleeve. ? Let me have five minutes with that black son of a bitch. ????????????????????Re-routed trains bloating the sweaty crowd. ? Some woman curses my ape mother.? Sheriff pulls a knife. ? He cuts my arm. My skin, ??? ??? ??? ??? the slow fire ? around the break.? My arm. ? The hangman:? Nigger, you gonna die slow. ? The man cuts my chest. ? My heart beating, ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? hanging outside. He starts sawing. ? Pieces of skin in strips like bacon.? ? ????????? -from The Devil's Garden, 2003 ? ? ? Adrian Matejka is the author of The Devil?s Garden (Alice James Books, 2003). He is a graduate of the Southern Illinois University Carbondale MFA program and is a Cave Canem Fellow. His work has recently appeared in Callaloo, Crab Orchard Review, Gulf Coast, and Indiana Review. He currently serves as a Creative Writing professor at Southern Illinois University Edwardsville. ? ? Autobiography As Language, an Interview with Adrian Matejka ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? -by Andrew McFadyen-Ketchum ? ? Andrew McFadyen-Ketchum: One thing I like in particular about ?Autobiography as Language? is that we immediately understand that this ?blame? is associated with much more than simply the speaker?s way of talking.? Maybe it?s the repetition of the word, blame, and how that repetition is used to open up the poem to its many small discoveries about the self, beginning with an investigation of language and migrating into discussions of poverty, race, and kindness in the face of cruelty. ? I can imagine a million different ways that you could have approached this aspect of childhood.? Do you mind discussing how you came to this poem? ? Adrian Matejka: I wrote the poem my first summer as a fellow at Cave Canem, after several days of thinking about racial definitions within the African-American community. The poem was, in part, my attempt to reconsider the things I knew to be true from my childhood. I am African American even though my mother is white. This distinction is very important to me now, but when I was a child, race was of less consequence than money in the pocket. ? Race became part of the neighborhood conversation by default because everyone in our neighborhood was broke. It was even more of an issue for me because we were poor and my father was absent. As a result, my racial identity was based on my say so, rather than some identifiable phenotype or patented dance move. The idea of blame came from both this conviction and this misunderstanding. ? AMK: Seeing that this is the first poem of your book, The Devil?s Garden, which is largely about childhood and identity, does ?Autobiography as Language? serve as a sort of anthem for the poems that follow it? ? AM: ?Autobiography as Language? is anthematic in the sense that I wrote it specifically to be the first poem in the book. The original version of The Devil?s Garden was a finalist for the Bakeless Prize judged by Yusef Komunyakaa. At Cave Canem, I had the good fortune of spending time with Yusef and he was gracious enough to explain to me why the initial version of the book didn?t do what I wanted it to. He pointed out that beginning poem wasn?t successful in articulating the ideas in the book. ?Write a poem that does,? Yusef told me. ?Autobiography as Language? is that poem. ? AMK: ?Crap Shoot? is probably my favorite poem in the book.? It unfolds with such graceful narrative detail (?Three of us shooting craps,? ?instead of crumpled bills?an army man?), and then, suddenly, Mo running from the apartment, White Boy shooting him, and the speaker?s mother pulling him to safety, ?her?fingers braceleted around my wrist.? ? This fluidity of story telling is an aspect of narration that a young speaker could not possible access and, yet, the visuals in the poem are clearly seen through the eyes of a young boy.? I?m wondering how you balance your adult voice with a childhood memory. ? AM: Thanks for the kind words about the poem. ?Crap Shoot? was culled from an extended nonfiction piece I wrote while I was in graduate school in Carbondale. The essay was a first person narrative from the perspective of a child. It didn?t take long for me to realize that the essay wasn?t any good. But there were some important, salvageable happenings in the narrative. Those moments became ?Crap Shoot,? ?English B,? ?The Meaning of rpms,? and ?Peace and Soul.? Writing that unsuccessful nonfiction essay resulted in some of meatier autobiographical poems forThe Devil?s Garden. ? AMK: Is this poem intended as an interaction between these two perspectives?a sort of lyricism of story, memory, time, perspective? ? AM: When I transformed the prose into a poem, I hoped to create a narrative about childhood that was bigger than our neighborhood or being broke. I hoped that there would be something in the happening?shooting craps, the community children create, the projection screen TV that my neighbors stole out of White Boy?s apartment after the poem ends?that would be resonant. I showed one of the early drafts of the poem to my mother and her response was, ?That?s one way of remembering it.? It?s like Borges said, ?Things belong to the past quite quickly.? ? AMK:? Do you think that when we talk about these poems we should discuss the narrator as a speaker or as you, Adrian Matejka, the poet speaking from his own experience? ? AM: ?It can sometimes be difficult to differentiate the poet from the speaker when ?I? is being used these days. I think the confusion partially comes from the solipsism license passed down by the confessionalists. When the poet?s internal diary becomes the point of the poem, rather than the place the diary inhabits within the poetic dialogue, we are left with little to work with as readers. ? This muddy point of view can be problematic, but William Matthews said, ?the ?personal? and ?impersonal? are intricately braided, and thus both difficult and perhaps not even useful to separate, in the way a craft?let?s say the craft of poetry?is practiced.? I believe him. ? For the sake of accuracy, there needs to be a separation of poet and speaker in my poems. I?m not egocentric enough to believe the things that have happened to me are important enough on their own to hold the center of poems. I do believe they are connected somehow to things larger than me and while several of the poems in The Devil?s Garden had autobiographical germination, I was pretty liberal with the events within the text. I?d rather end up with an engaging poem that reframes the truth in some creative manner than a historical document.?? ? AMK: What are your thoughts on biography, autobiography, and persona in contemporary poetry? ? AM: I?m a big fan of biography as fulcrum for poetry. I really admire poets who find beauty and necessity in history. In the African-American literary scene, there are several writers who revisit history to reframe the poetic discussion. Poets like Tyehimba Jess, Quryash Ali Lansana, Marilyn Nelson, and Frank X. Walker utilize poetry as a space for historical discourse. ? They seek a new view of important African American historical icons such as George Washington Carver, Leadbelly, and Harriet Tubman. Most of these poems are persona and the resultant work is in keeping with Adrienne Rich?s ideas of cultural definition. That is to say one?s definition should come from contrasting with the self, not from contrasting the oppressor. Right now, I?m working a project in this historic persona vein that centers on Jack Johnson, the first African-American heavyweight champion of the world. Hopefully, the end result will contribute something to this dialogue. ? AMK: ?Paris, Texas (1954)? is obviously not a poem about your own experience.? Do you mind telling us a little bit about this speaker and where this poem came from? ? AM: The genesis of the poem was a very depressing documentary about lynching I watched about 15 years ago. I don?t remember the title or much other content from the documentary, but I jotted down some notes at the time about the lynching that the poem refers to.? I wrote the original draft of the poem from the notes. ? When I later tried to find additional information about the specific lynching I referenced, I wasn?t able to. I?m not sure if I am a bad note-taker or if I looked in the wrong places, but I couldn?t find any mention of the events in 1954. I decided to borrow authority from Earnest Gaines?s Autobiography of Miss Jane Pitman and work the imaginary in a real setting. In the end, the poem became a hybrid of fact and fiction.? ? AMK: The last images in this poem are pretty intense.? The heart beating outside its chest.? The ?skin in strips like bacon.?? I think it?s impressive how the poem tells its story and conveys its message without an external voice, without injections, but with images that speak for themselves. ? Are images your preferred method for speaking in such a way in a poem? ? AM: Your question speaks to one of the primary concerns of the poem. When I decided to write from first person, I had massive problems with the kinetics of the poem?what the speaker would see, what he would hear in such a situation, etc. The event itself seemed to resist the narrative I thought would be necessary for context. Image seemed to be the best way to create the scene. ? As I look at it now, the major shortcoming of ?Paris, Texas (1954)? is the first person perspective. If I?d written it yesterday, I would have used shifting perspectives with more extravagant breaks to attend to a 3 dimensional sense of imagery, rather than a first person one. ?Maybe my 2008 approach wouldn?t have worked, but I had a hard time then and have an even harder time now figuring out how anyone?even the narrator I am trying to create sympathy for?would be able to take the described abuse and still remain lucid. At times the poem is successful. I think the end works, but some of the necessary narrative in the poem seems less effective to me now than it did when I wrote it. AMK: Would you call this poem a poem of witness? ? AM: I hope so. The fact that lynching and other racially-motivated atrocities, like what happened in 1998 to James Byrd, Jr., are still options for some people begs, the question of evolution. But if we insist that things are better without acknowledging the fact that things haven?t changed all that much for some corners of the population, then we?ve really lost it.?? ? AMK: Thank you. ? AM: Thank you. Keep doing what you are doing. Adrian Matejka is the author of The Devil?s Garden (Alice James Books, 2003). He is a graduate of the Southern Illinois University Carbondale MFA program and is a Cave Canem Fellow. His work has recently appeared in Callaloo, Crab Orchard Review, Gulf Coast, and Indiana Review. He currently serves as a Creative Writing professor at Southern Illinois University Edwardsville. ? ? Autobiography As Language, an Interview with Adrian Matejka ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? -by Andrew McFadyen-Ketchum ? ? Andrew McFadyen-Ketchum: One thing I like in particular about ?Autobiography as Language? is that we immediately understand that this ?blame? is associated with much more than simply the speaker?s way of talking.? Maybe it?s the repetition of the word, blame, and how that repetition is used to open up the poem to its many small discoveries about the self, beginning with an investigation of language and migrating into discussions of poverty, race, and kindness in the face of cruelty. ? I can imagine a million different ways that you could have approached this aspect of childhood.? Do you mind discussing how you came to this poem? ? Adrian Matejka: I wrote the poem my first summer as a fellow at Cave Canem, after several days of thinking about racial definitions within the African-American community. The poem was, in part, my attempt to reconsider the things I knew to be true from my childhood. I am African American even though my mother is white. This distinction is very important to me now, but when I was a child, race was of less consequence than money in the pocket. ? Race became part of the neighborhood conversation by default because everyone in our neighborhood was broke. It was even more of an issue for me because we were poor and my father was absent. As a result, my racial identity was based on my say so, rather than some identifiable phenotype or patented dance move. The idea of blame came from both this conviction and this misunderstanding. ? AMK: Seeing that this is the first poem of your book, The Devil?s Garden, which is largely about childhood and identity, does ?Autobiography as Language? serve as a sort of anthem for the poems that follow it? ? AM: ?Autobiography as Language? is anthematic in the sense that I wrote it specifically to be the first poem in the book. The original version of The Devil?s Garden was a finalist for the Bakeless Prize judged by Yusef Komunyakaa. At Cave Canem, I had the good fortune of spending time with Yusef and he was gracious enough to explain to me why the initial version of the book didn?t do what I wanted it to. He pointed out that beginning poem wasn?t successful in articulating the ideas in the book. ?Write a poem that does,? Yusef told me. ?Autobiography as Language? is that poem. ? AMK: ?Crap Shoot? is probably my favorite poem in the book.? It unfolds with such graceful narrative detail (?Three of us shooting craps,? ?instead of crumpled bills?an army man?), and then, suddenly, Mo running from the apartment, White Boy shooting him, and the speaker?s mother pulling him to safety, ?her?fingers braceleted around my wrist.? ? This fluidity of story telling is an aspect of narration that a young speaker could not possible access and, yet, the visuals in the poem are clearly seen through the eyes of a young boy.? I?m wondering how you balance your adult voice with a childhood memory. ? AM: Thanks for the kind words about the poem. ?Crap Shoot? was culled from an extended nonfiction piece I wrote while I was in graduate school in Carbondale. The essay was a first person narrative from the perspective of a child. It didn?t take long for me to realize that the essay wasn?t any good. But there were some important, salvageable happenings in the narrative. Those moments became ?Crap Shoot,? ?English B,? ?The Meaning of rpms,? and ?Peace and Soul.? Writing that unsuccessful nonfiction essay resulted in some of meatier autobiographical poems forThe Devil?s Garden. ? AMK: Is this poem intended as an interaction between these two perspectives?a sort of lyricism of story, memory, time, perspective? ? AM: When I transformed the prose into a poem, I hoped to create a narrative about childhood that was bigger than our neighborhood or being broke. I hoped that there would be something in the happening?shooting craps, the community children create, the projection screen TV that my neighbors stole out of White Boy?s apartment after the poem ends?that would be resonant. I showed one of the early drafts of the poem to my mother and her response was, ?That?s one way of remembering it.? It?s like Borges said, ?Things belong to the past quite quickly.? ? AMK:? Do you think that when we talk about these poems we should discuss the narrator as a speaker or as you, Adrian Matejka, the poet speaking from his own experience? ? AM: ?It can sometimes be difficult to differentiate the poet from the speaker when ?I? is being used these days. I think the confusion partially comes from the solipsism license passed down by the confessionalists. When the poet?s internal diary becomes the point of the poem, rather than the place the diary inhabits within the poetic dialogue, we are left with little to work with as readers. ? This muddy point of view can be problematic, but William Matthews said, ?the ?personal? and ?impersonal? are intricately braided, and thus both difficult and perhaps not even useful to separate, in the way a craft?let?s say the craft of poetry?is practiced.? I believe him. ? For the sake of accuracy, there needs to be a separation of poet and speaker in my poems. I?m not egocentric enough to believe the things that have happened to me are important enough on their own to hold the center of poems. I do believe they are connected somehow to things larger than me and while several of the poems in The Devil?s Garden had autobiographical germination, I was pretty liberal with the events within the text. I?d rather end up with an engaging poem that reframes the truth in some creative manner than a historical document.?? ? AMK: What are your thoughts on biography, autobiography, and persona in contemporary poetry? ? AM: I?m a big fan of biography as fulcrum for poetry. I really admire poets who find beauty and necessity in history. In the African-American literary scene, there are several writers who revisit history to reframe the poetic discussion. Poets like Tyehimba Jess, Quryash Ali Lansana, Marilyn Nelson, and Frank X. Walker utilize poetry as a space for historical discourse. ? They seek a new view of important African American historical icons such as George Washington Carver, Leadbelly, and Harriet Tubman. Most of these poems are persona and the resultant work is in keeping with Adrienne Rich?s ideas of cultural definition. That is to say one?s definition should come from contrasting with the self, not from contrasting the oppressor. Right now, I?m working a project in this historic persona vein that centers on Jack Johnson, the first African-American heavyweight champion of the world. Hopefully, the end result will contribute something to this dialogue. ? AMK: ?Paris, Texas (1954)? is obviously not a poem about your own experience.? Do you mind telling us a little bit about this speaker and where this poem came from? ? AM: The genesis of the poem was a very depressing documentary about lynching I watched about 15 years ago. I don?t remember the title or much other content from the documentary, but I jotted down some notes at the time about the lynching that the poem refers to.? I wrote the original draft of the poem from the notes. ? When I later tried to find additional information about the specific lynching I referenced, I wasn?t able to. I?m not sure if I am a bad note-taker or if I looked in the wrong places, but I couldn?t find any mention of the events in 1954. I decided to borrow authority from Earnest Gaines?s Autobiography of Miss Jane Pitman and work the imaginary in a real setting. In the end, the poem became a hybrid of fact and fiction.? ? AMK: The last images in this poem are pretty intense.? The heart beating outside its chest.? The ?skin in strips like bacon.?? I think it?s impressive how the poem tells its story and conveys its message without an external voice, without injections, but with images that speak for themselves. ? Are images your preferred method for speaking in such a way in a poem? ? AM: Your question speaks to one of the primary concerns of the poem. When I decided to write from first person, I had massive problems with the kinetics of the poem?what the speaker would see, what he would hear in such a situation, etc. The event itself seemed to resist the narrative I thought would be necessary for context. Image seemed to be the best way to create the scene. ? As I look at it now, the major shortcoming of ?Paris, Texas (1954)? is the first person perspective. If I?d written it yesterday, I would have used shifting perspectives with more extravagant breaks to attend to a 3 dimensional sense of imagery, rather than a first person one. ?Maybe my 2008 approach wouldn?t have worked, but I had a hard time then and have an even harder time now figuring out how anyone?even the narrator I am trying to create sympathy for?would be able to take the described abuse and still remain lucid. At times the poem is successful. I think the end works, but some of the necessary narrative in the poem seems less effective to me now than it did when I wrote it. AMK: Would you call this poem a poem of witness? ? AM: I hope so. The fact that lynching and other racially-motivated atrocities, like what happened in 1998 to James Byrd, Jr., are still options for some people begs, the question of evolution. But if we insist that things are better without acknowledging the fact that things haven?t changed all that much for some corners of the population, then we?ve really lost it.?? ? AMK: Thank you. ? AM: Thank you. Keep doing what you are doing. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Fri Apr 18 20:06:48 2008 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2008 20:06:48 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] espoused poets Message-ID: <8CA6FC865825E94-1748-2F51@webmail-dd14.sysops.aol.com> http://www.magmapoetry.com/poem.php?article_id=336 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From david.bircumshaw at ntlworld.com Sat Apr 19 03:19:20 2008 From: david.bircumshaw at ntlworld.com (David Bircumshaw) Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2008 08:19:20 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] espoused poets In-Reply-To: <8CA6FC865825E94-1748-2F51@webmail-dd14.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CA6FC865825E94-1748-2F51@webmail-dd14.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <48099CF8.30006@ntlworld.com> > > http://www.magmapoetry.com/poem.php?article_id=336 > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Curiously enough both Anne-Marie Fyffe and Helen Ivory have read to us here in Leicester lately. Ms Fyffe was very likeable, very Irish, very 'London', where she's really lives (she wore a dress which looked as if it had never been ironed which is apparently fashionable currently). Her poems were very good, very well-worked, examples of an if you like that sort of thing. An abiding concern was with houses she'd lived in, and inarguably property is a dominant obsession of the Brit middle classes. She's chair of the (London = National) Poetry Society and, interestingly, she said that the writers who represent the kind of poetry that is welcomed are Billy Collins and Sharon Olds. So I hope you guys remember this, that the present inspiration for the lack of adventure in Brit mainstream poetry is derived from American models, so next time you come across, say, Marjorie Perloff sounding off about the Brits, send her note please, for the literary narrowness today comes not from that grouchy old Larkin but consumer-friendly Billy C. But I'd emphasise that Ms Fyffe's reading, of its kind, was worth going to. Not so Helen Ivory. I, and most of the audience, left with our jaws sagging from her reading. She was possibly the most inarticulate person claiming to be a poet I have ever encountered. She warned the audience that she was about to use a 'rare word' in a poem: 'widdershins'. She explained that 'villanelle' was technical term poets use. To be exact: 'kind of, like, a technical term'. She said used google as a +research+ tool (!). She told that since she'd acquired a post at the National Poetry Archive she reads poetry more than she used to (her main job is, guess, teaching Creative Writing). She had a fascinating reading manner, in a style that was often inaudible to half the audience she'd sort of trail off at the end of each poem, as if a doubt had entered her mind about whether it existed or not. A woman friend summed Ms Ivory up as: 'She's an airhead'. -- David Bircumshaw Website and A Chide's Alphabet http://homepage.ntlworld.com/david.bircumshaw/ The Animal Subsides http://www.arrowheadpress.co.uk/books/animal.html Leicester Poetry Society: http://www.poetryleicester.co.uk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From amyhappens at yahoo.com Sat Apr 19 12:04:29 2008 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king) Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2008 09:04:29 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Annie Finch and Lee Ann Brown reading - SUNDAY, April 20th 2008 Message-ID: <789913.94999.qm@web83305.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> POETRY READINGSUNDAY, April 20th 2008 6:00 PM CORNELIA STREET CAF? 29 Cornelia Street, (offBleeker) NYC 10014 212-989-9319 http://corneliastreetcafe.com/ Angelo Verga, hosts Annie Finch & Lee AnnBrown Annie Finch: Poet, critic, translator, editor, andlibrettist Annie Finch is the author of three books of poetry, The Encyclopediaof Scotland; Eve; and Calendars. Her poetry has appeared widely in journals,anthologies, and textbooks and has been featured in venues including Voice ofAmerica, the Metropolitan Museum of Art, and Def Poetry Jam. Hercollaborations with theater, art, and dance include the libretto for the opera Marina. She has alsopublished a book of French poetry in translation and numerous books on poetics,most recently The Body of Poetry: Essays on Women, Form, and the Poetic Self(2005). She is Professor of English and Director of the Stonecoast Low-ResidencyMFA Program in Creative Writing at the University of Southern Maine. Poems, essays, and further information areavailable at her website. Lee Ann Brown is a poet,performer, and the publisher of Tender Buttons, a press that publishesexperimental poetry by women. She is theauthor of two full length collections, Polyverse and The Sleep That Changed Everythingand a collaboration with Laynie Browne, Nascent Toolbox. She enjoys singing her rewrought ballads andcollaborations. She lives in New York City whereshe teaches at St. John's University and in the mountains of North Carolina. She is married to actor and director, TonyTorn and they have a 5 year old daughter, Miranda Lee Reality Torn. http://writing.upenn.edu/pennsound/x/Brown.html http://epc.buffalo.edu/authors/brown/ Finch & Brown collaborateon a new piece. Cover $7 (includes one housedrink) By Subway - A, C, E, B, D, F & VTRAINS Get on the south end of thetrain./ Take the train to the West 4th Street stop. /Exit at West 3rd Street. / Walk one block northto 4th Street./ Make an acute left onto Cornelia Street. 1 & 9 TRAINS Take the train to the Sheridan Square stop. /Walk 21/2 blocks east on West 4th Street. /Make a right onto Cornelia Street. "Poems grow in April,easy as the sun?" (Annie) Lee Ann We HOPE TO SEE YOU! _______ http://www.amyking.org http://redherring.us ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Opus40-01 at opus40.org Sat Apr 19 14:45:13 2008 From: Opus40-01 at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2008 14:45:13 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Mike Snider's Blog Message-ID: <480A3DB9.6070003@opus40.org> Mike -- are you reading this? I can't get to your new blog address. What happened? -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ The moral is this: in American verse, The better you are, the pay is worse. --Corey Ford From Opus40-01 at opus40.org Sun Apr 20 10:08:08 2008 From: Opus40-01 at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Sun, 20 Apr 2008 10:08:08 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Toot In-Reply-To: <200804181913.m3IJDfsZ025382@mail12c35.nsolutionszone.com> References: <200804181913.m3IJDfsZ025382@mail12c35.nsolutionszone.com> Message-ID: <480B4E48.90304@opus40.org> Great stuff, David. David Graham wrote: > My poem "Air Is Not Nothing" is now up at *Qarrtsiluni*, as part of > their ongoing "Nature in the Cracks" feature. Another poem, "The Dead > Alive and Busy," was previously published as part of the same feature. > > _http://qarrtsiluni.com/tag/david-graham/_ > > Includes an audio file of me reading the poem, too. > > > > > ======================================== > David Graham > grahamd at ripon.edu > > Home Page: > http://web.mac.com/drjazz > > Poetry Library: > http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html > ========================================== > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ The moral is this: in American verse, The better you are, the pay is worse. --Corey Ford From jforjames at aol.com Sun Apr 20 20:32:53 2008 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Sun, 20 Apr 2008 20:32:53 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] WRITING LIFE: EDWARD HIRSCH Message-ID: <8CA715E5ED97AC0-B64-5D56@MBLK-M31.sysops.aol.com> http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/04/17/AR2008041703573.html THE WRITING LIFE: EDWARD HIRSCH Walking With His Muse, a Poet Becomes His Own Destination. ? (Courtesy Of Edward Hirsch) By Edward Hirsch Sunday, April 20, 2008; Page BW11 Poetry is a vocation. It is not a career but a calling. For as long as I can remember, I have associated that calling, my life's work, with walking. I love the leisurely amplitude, the spaciousness, of taking a walk, of heading somewhere, anywhere, on foot. I love the sheer adventure of it, setting out and taking off. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Sun Apr 20 20:57:42 2008 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Sun, 20 Apr 2008 20:57:42 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] po and pol Message-ID: <8CA7161D6A9F390-820-BE@MBLK-M31.sysops.aol.com> http://fredericksburg.com/News/FLS/2008/042008/04192008/372812 Poetry and politics Date published: 4/19/2008 APRIL is National Poetry Month, and one Saturday during that period each year we print a few classic poems in this space. Today, given the intense campaigns for the White House, we've chosen the theme of politics. Good poems about politics don't leap to mind -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chan_jt at hotmail.com Sun Apr 20 22:43:44 2008 From: chan_jt at hotmail.com (JT Chan) Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2008 02:43:44 +0000 Subject: [New-Poetry] Call for submissions Message-ID: Hi, Poetry Sz:demystifying mental illness ( http://poetrysz.blogspot.com ) is calling for submissions for Issue 26. Send 4-6 poems and a short bio in the body of your email to poetrysz at yahoo.com . Please read the submission guidelines first before submitting. Thanks. regards J Chan editor _________________________________________________________________ Find singles in your area with Match. http://a.ninemsn.com.au/b.aspx?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fmatch%2Enz%2Emsn%2Ecom%2Fchannel%2Findex%2Easpx%3Ftrackingid%3D1043416&_r=WL_EMAL_TAG&_m=EXT -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Rsgwynn1 at cs.com Sun Apr 20 23:06:42 2008 From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com (Rsgwynn1 at cs.com) Date: Sun, 20 Apr 2008 23:06:42 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] WRITING LIFE: EDWARD HIRSCH Message-ID: http://media.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/photo/2008/04/17/PH2008041703576.html Ed is a nice guy with good intentions, but can any one of you recite one line from memory that he's written? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chris.lott at gmail.com Mon Apr 21 00:53:55 2008 From: chris.lott at gmail.com (Chris Lott) Date: Sun, 20 Apr 2008 20:53:55 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] WRITING LIFE: EDWARD HIRSCH In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <9b1b9dab0804202153h3ae062c0r295cd6320868f03@mail.gmail.com> On Sun, Apr 20, 2008 at 7:06 PM, wrote: > http://media.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/photo/2008/04/17/PH2008041703576.html > > Ed is a nice guy with good intentions, but can any one of you recite one > line from memory that he's written? I didn't even know he *wrote* poetry... but I can remember details of many, many fine poems and poets that I've been introduced to by-- or learned more about from-- his poetry columns and criticism. I guess I assumed he must write poetry of his own, but I don't know that I've ever read any! c From grahamd at ripon.edu Mon Apr 21 08:25:26 2008 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2008 07:25:26 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Aram Saroyan Message-ID: <200804211225.m3LCPQi5007182@mail27c35.nsolutionszone.com> Winner of the William Carlos Williams Award, for his *Complete Minimal Poems*. Judge was Ron Silliman. Read about it here: http://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/ (Scroll down to 4/18) Read a blistering attack on all the above here: http://billknott.typepad.com/billknott/2008/04/20/index.html ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.mac.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Opus40-01 at opus40.org Mon Apr 21 09:05:20 2008 From: Opus40-01 at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2008 09:05:20 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Notable Bene Message-ID: <480C9110.90105@opus40.org> What makes a notable poet? http://jjgallaher.blogspot.com/2008/04/are-you-notable-poet-well-are-you.html -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ The moral is this: in American verse, The better you are, the pay is worse. --Corey Ford From AlMaginnes at aol.com Mon Apr 21 09:38:21 2008 From: AlMaginnes at aol.com (AlMaginnes at aol.com) Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2008 09:38:21 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Notable Bene Message-ID: In a message dated 4/21/2008 9:05:52 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, Opus40-01 at opus40.org writes: http://jjgallaher.blogspot.com/2008/04/are-you-notable-poet-well-are-you.html God, who'd have thought that Wikipedia, that fount of erroneous information, would worry so much about a poet? **************Need a new ride? Check out the largest site for U.S. used car listings at AOL Autos. (http://autos.aol.com/used?NCID=aolcmp00300000002851) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From amyhappens at yahoo.com Mon Apr 21 09:48:37 2008 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king) Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2008 06:48:37 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Blog Log - Recent Whittlings Message-ID: <748673.26930.qm@web83313.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> FEMINIST RESURGENCE?! http://amyking.wordpress.com/2008/04/19/feminist-resurgence/ NOT ONE, BUT A LOVELY TWO! http://amyking.wordpress.com/2008/04/17/not-one-but-a-lovely-two/ IKEA HAS A THING FOR POETS http://amyking.wordpress.com/2008/04/17/ikea-has-a-thing-for-poets/ AIME CESAIRE, MARTINIQUEPOET, HAS DIED http://amyking.wordpress.com/2008/04/17/aime-cesaire-martinique-poet-has-died/ WHEN LIGHTNING BOLTS FROM MY CHEST ? http://amyking.wordpress.com/2008/04/15/when-lightning-bolts-from-my-chest/ GO LOCAL: NATIONALPOETRY MONTH X 10 http://amyking.wordpress.com/2008/04/13/national-poetry-month-x-10/ RON PADGETT SINGS HIS POETRY! http://amyking.wordpress.com/2008/04/11/ron-padgett-sings-his-poetry/ BITCHES http://amyking.wordpress.com/2008/04/11/bitches/ BIRTHING http://amyking.wordpress.com/2008/04/10/birthing/ PRONOUNCING ?LOUIS? http://amyking.wordpress.com/2008/04/10/pronouncing-%e2%80%9clouis%e2%80%9d/ WHERE?S THE MOMMY? http://amyking.wordpress.com/2008/04/10/wheres-the-mommy/ STELLAR AUDIO OF MEGAN VOLPERT, DEBORAH POE, LAURA MULLEN http://amyking.wordpress.com/2008/04/03/stellar-audio-of-megan-volpert-deborah-poe-laura-mullen/ NEVER A MORE GENEROUS MAN http://amyking.wordpress.com/2008/04/03/never-a-more-generous-man/ DAISY FRIED?S POETRY EXERCISES http://amyking.wordpress.com/2008/04/02/daisy-frieds-poetry-exercises/ _______ http://www.amyking.org http://redherring.us ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Edward.Byrne at valpo.edu Mon Apr 21 10:28:19 2008 From: Edward.Byrne at valpo.edu (Edward Byrne) Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2008 09:28:19 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] VPR: Spring/Summer 2008 Issue Message-ID: <477A3866.7112.006E.0@valpo.edu> I am pleased to announce the Spring/Summer 2008 issue (Volume IX, Number 2) of Valparaiso Poetry Review has been released today: http://www.valpo.edu/english/vpr/coverv9n2.html I invite you to read new works included by the following authors. Featured Poet: Lynnell Edwards Additional Poets: Mary Biddinger, Ronda Broatch, Peter Cooley, Lightsey Darst, Carol V. Davis, Chris Ellis, Patricia Fargnoli, Brent Goodman, Julia Kasdorf, April Lindner, Frannie Lindsay, Joanne Lowery, Jennifer MacPherson, Greg McBride, Peggy Miller, Joey Nicoletti, Doug Ramspeck, Sean David Ross, Lex Runciman, Don Schofield, Martin Walls, Vincent Wixon Essay: Jeffrey Frank on Zbigniew Herbert Poets Reviewed: Lynnell Edwards, Bobbi Lurie, Sarah Manguso, Kate Northrup, Rosemary Winslow Cover Art Commentary: Gregg Hertzlieb on Frederic Edwin Church -------------------------------------------------- Edward Byrne Department of English 322 Huegli Hall Valparaiso University Valparaiso, IN 46383-6493 E-mail: edward.byrne at valpo.edu Home Page: http://www.valpo.edu/home/faculty/ebyrne/homepage/ Blog: http://edwardbyrne.blogspot.com/ Editor, Valparaiso Poetry Review E-mail: vpr at valpo.edu VPR Web Page: http://www.valpo.edu/english/vpr/ Office Phone: (219) 464-5278 Fax: (219) 464-5511 -------------------------------------------------- From tsmclain at charter.net Mon Apr 21 11:16:58 2008 From: tsmclain at charter.net (Terry McLain) Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2008 11:16:58 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Aphorismo In-Reply-To: <8CA6DFA0B27D865-100-AE7@WEBMAIL-DC11.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CA6DFA0B27D865-100-AE7@WEBMAIL-DC11.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <7DB83E3C5FB64B14A04BE6F2A25B6A44@TerryPC> The problem with aphorisms is the moment you realize just who else is saying "How true." _____ From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of jforjames at aol.com Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2008 12:57 PM To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Subject: [New-Poetry] Aphorismo The aphorsim which straddles the realms of poetry and philosophy and proverbs, had a conference devoted to the genre... http://www.jamesgeary.com/blog/?p=149 _____ Get the MapQuest Toolbar, Maps, Traffic, Directions & More! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jeff.newberry at gmail.com Mon Apr 21 15:36:16 2008 From: jeff.newberry at gmail.com (Jeff Newberry) Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2008 15:36:16 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Organic? Message-ID: <731bb17a0804211236u41c8af3fgc1bde86f2ea7a3ec@mail.gmail.com> A query: A friend & I are having a long, interesting conversation about poetic rhythm and scansion. I thought that I was winning our faux-debate. Then, I realized that I was using the word *organic* without a real understanding of its definition. So, here's the question: what does *organic* mean as the word applies to poetry? If you can point me toward some books/articles, I'd be much obliged as well. I know about Levertov's essay, but I'd appreciate any other suggestions. For the record, my sense of the word is something like this: *organic*poetry refers to poems in which words and rhythm are joined in an inseparable way; in an organic poem, you can't talk about rhythm without talking about the words/images. Or something like that. As I said, I'm really unclear on what the word means. All my best, Jeff Newberry -- "Why are you wearing that stupid *man* suit?" http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From AlMaginnes at aol.com Mon Apr 21 15:37:53 2008 From: AlMaginnes at aol.com (AlMaginnes at aol.com) Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2008 15:37:53 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Organic? Message-ID: Sounds about right to me, Jeff. But most of my conversations these days are with a one year old. **************Need a new ride? Check out the largest site for U.S. used car listings at AOL Autos. (http://autos.aol.com/used?NCID=aolcmp00300000002851) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From david.weinstock at gmail.com Mon Apr 21 16:20:53 2008 From: david.weinstock at gmail.com (David Weinstock) Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2008 16:20:53 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Organic? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <437b1e3a0804211320k395cd21dp4ed1078185d64858@mail.gmail.com> I don't think "organic" really means much of anything, in an objective way. It's a feeling about the poem's overall effect, not an actual property of the poem. Here is a thought experiment: Imagine an INorganic poem...say, a serious philosophical love poem written in the metre and rhyme scheme that ordinarily are used in smutty limericks. Now, the odds are that the poem will be awfully bad, and one complaint against it will be that it's not * organic*. But what if, by a long shot, the poem does work, does everything a serious philosophical love poem should do and more? Suddenly, the "inorganicness" of the poem would be undetectable. The clash between content and metre and rhyme would no longer seem incongruous; instead, it would be seen as a tour de force and show us new possibilities about what goes with what. David -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at earthlink.net Mon Apr 21 16:55:42 2008 From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson) Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2008 16:55:42 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Organic? In-Reply-To: <731bb17a0804211236u41c8af3fgc1bde86f2ea7a3ec@mail.gmail.com> References: <731bb17a0804211236u41c8af3fgc1bde86f2ea7a3ec@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: It means that no chemicals were applied to the growing poems. Hal "I don't necessarily agree with everything I say." --Marshall McLuhan Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html On Apr 21, 2008, at 3:36 PM, Jeff Newberry wrote: > A query: > > A friend & I are having a long, interesting conversation about > poetic rhythm and scansion. I thought that I was winning our faux- > debate. Then, I realized that I was using the word organic without > a real understanding of its definition. > > So, here's the question: what does organic mean as the word applies > to poetry? > > If you can point me toward some books/articles, I'd be much obliged > as well. I know about Levertov's essay, but I'd appreciate any > other suggestions. > > For the record, my sense of the word is something like this: > organic poetry refers to poems in which words and rhythm are joined > in an inseparable way; in an organic poem, you can't talk about > rhythm without talking about the words/images. Or something like > that. As I said, I'm really unclear on what the word means. > > All my best, > > Jeff Newberry > > -- > "Why are you wearing that stupid *man* suit?" > > http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd at ripon.edu Mon Apr 21 17:00:03 2008 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2008 16:00:03 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Organic? In-Reply-To: <731bb17a0804211236u41c8af3fgc1bde86f2ea7a3ec@mail.gmail.com> References: <731bb17a0804211236u41c8af3fgc1bde86f2ea7a3ec@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <200804212100.m3LL03nr028128@mail62c35.nsolutionszone.com> Best discussion I know of would be in the old *Naked Poetry* anthologies, edited by Stephen Berg & Robert Mezey, which in addition to a range of free verse poetry, collects brief essays on poetics by Levertov, Bly, Levine, Kinnell, Snyder, and others. Organic is, as I understand it, a fairly obvious loaded metaphor in praise of "open form" poetry as being somehow more natural, earthy, naked, and so forth. Kinnell said somewhere (maybe in one of those anthologies) that writing in traditional forms was like walking across a snowy field in someone else's boot tracks; it only takes you where others have been before. He wanted to break his own trail. I think "organic" finally doesn't mean much beyond being a synonym for free verse. The idea being that one creates cadences, breaks lines, walks across the field of the page in a way that is somehow more natural than counting syllables and stresses. As I noted recently on another list, recent re-readings of Levertov's remarks on the subject have convinced me that her attitude toward form was ultimately mystical. ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.mac.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== On Apr 21, 2008, at 2:36 PM, Jeff Newberry wrote: > A query: > > A friend & I are having a long, interesting conversation about > poetic rhythm and scansion. I thought that I was winning our faux- > debate. Then, I realized that I was using the word organic without > a real understanding of its definition. > > So, here's the question: what does organic mean as the word > applies to poetry? > > If you can point me toward some books/articles, I'd be much obliged > as well. I know about Levertov's essay, but I'd appreciate any > other suggestions. > > For the record, my sense of the word is something like this: > organic poetry refers to poems in which words and rhythm are joined > in an inseparable way; in an organic poem, you can't talk about > rhythm without talking about the words/images. Or something like > that. As I said, I'm really unclear on what the word means. > > All my best, > > Jeff Newberry > > -- > "Why are you wearing that stupid *man* suit?" > > http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cervantes.james at gmail.com Mon Apr 21 17:07:18 2008 From: cervantes.james at gmail.com (James Cervantes) Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2008 16:07:18 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Organic? In-Reply-To: References: <731bb17a0804211236u41c8af3fgc1bde86f2ea7a3ec@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <648208b60804211407q69d316bbi55cc7af8c7c58642@mail.gmail.com> Exactly. And that good smelly manure (the real shit) was used. - Jim On Mon, Apr 21, 2008 at 3:55 PM, Halvard Johnson wrote: > It means that no chemicals were applied to the growing poems. > Hal > > "I don't necessarily agree with everything I say." > --Marshall McLuhan > > Halvard Johnson > ================ > halvard at earthlink.net > http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > http://www.hamiltonstone.org > http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html > > > On Apr 21, 2008, at 3:36 PM, Jeff Newberry wrote: > > A query: > > A friend & I are having a long, interesting conversation about poetic > rhythm and scansion. I thought that I was winning our faux-debate. Then, I > realized that I was using the word *organic* without a real understanding > of its definition. > > So, here's the question: what does *organic* mean as the word applies to > poetry? > > If you can point me toward some books/articles, I'd be much obliged as > well. I know about Levertov's essay, but I'd appreciate any other > suggestions. > > For the record, my sense of the word is something like this: *organic*poetry refers to poems in which words and rhythm are joined in an > inseparable way; in an organic poem, you can't talk about rhythm without > talking about the words/images. Or something like that. As I said, I'm > really unclear on what the word means. > > All my best, > > Jeff Newberry > > -- > "Why are you wearing that stupid *man* suit?" > > http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com_______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Mon Apr 21 18:10:26 2008 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2008 17:10:26 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Organic? In-Reply-To: <731bb17a0804211236u41c8af3fgc1bde86f2ea7a3ec@mail.gmail.com> References: <731bb17a0804211236u41c8af3fgc1bde86f2ea7a3ec@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <480D10D2.8010505@nut-n-but.net> Jeff Newberry wrote: > A query: > > A friend & I are having a long, interesting conversation about poetic > rhythm and scansion. I thought that I was winning our faux-debate. > Then, I realized that I was using the word /organic/ without a real > understanding of its definition. > > So, here's the question: what does /organic/ mean as the word applies > to poetry? > > If you can point me toward some books/articles, I'd be much obliged as > well. I know about Levertov's essay, but I'd appreciate any other > suggestions. > > For the record, my sense of the word is something like this: > /organic/ poetry refers to poems in which words and rhythm are joined > in an inseparable way; in an organic poem, you can't talk about rhythm > without talking about the words/images. Or something like that. As I > said, I'm really unclear on what the word means. > > All my best, > > Jeff Newberry It seems to me pretty much a null term. I doubt that anyone has given it a rigorous definition. But one thing most people mean by it, when applied to poetry, is a text that finds its own shape, style, subject, tone, etc., "naturally"--not mechanically, by following set rules of meter, form, etc. --Bob G. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Opus40-01 at opus40.org Mon Apr 21 17:27:30 2008 From: Opus40-01 at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2008 17:27:30 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Organic? In-Reply-To: <731bb17a0804211236u41c8af3fgc1bde86f2ea7a3ec@mail.gmail.com> References: <731bb17a0804211236u41c8af3fgc1bde86f2ea7a3ec@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <480D06C2.7060706@opus40.org> I've always thought of the opposite of organic, in art, as /conceptual/. Organic art is art that comes from the making of it, that's worked and takes shape through your hands. Christo I see as conceptual rather than organic. Much of Duchamp. Much of Johns. Poetry -- I'll step out of the way nimbly, and let the flying brickbats hit Jeff -- Aram Saroyan. Joan Retallack. Jeff Newberry wrote: > A query: > > A friend & I are having a long, interesting conversation about poetic > rhythm and scansion. I thought that I was winning our faux-debate. > Then, I realized that I was using the word /organic/ without a real > understanding of its definition. > > So, here's the question: what does /organic/ mean as the word applies > to poetry? > > If you can point me toward some books/articles, I'd be much obliged as > well. I know about Levertov's essay, but I'd appreciate any other > suggestions. > > For the record, my sense of the word is something like this: > /organic/ poetry refers to poems in which words and rhythm are joined > in an inseparable way; in an organic poem, you can't talk about rhythm > without talking about the words/images. Or something like that. As I > said, I'm really unclear on what the word means. > > All my best, > > Jeff Newberry > > -- > "Why are you wearing that stupid *man* suit?" > > http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ The moral is this: in American verse, The better you are, the pay is worse. --Corey Ford From skip at louisiana.edu Mon Apr 21 17:31:57 2008 From: skip at louisiana.edu (Skip Fox) Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2008 16:31:57 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Organic? In-Reply-To: <200804212100.m3LL03nr028128@mail62c35.nsolutionszone.com> Message-ID: <002801c8a3f7$26830730$3b874682@win.louisiana.edu> Frost said writing free verse was like playing tennis without a net. (My answer: When I write, I don't want to play tennis.) Olson's "Projective Verse" is a central and relatively early document (though the concept of an organic poetry was laid out at least as early as Pound's essays on Imagism) concerning this issue. -----Original Message----- From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of David Graham Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 4:00 PM To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views Subject: [New-Poetry] Organic? Best discussion I know of would be in the old *Naked Poetry* anthologies, edited by Stephen Berg & Robert Mezey, which in addition to a range of free verse poetry, collects brief essays on poetics by Levertov, Bly, Levine, Kinnell, Snyder, and others. Organic is, as I understand it, a fairly obvious loaded metaphor in praise of "open form" poetry as being somehow more natural, earthy, naked, and so forth. Kinnell said somewhere (maybe in one of those anthologies) that writing in traditional forms was like walking across a snowy field in someone else's boot tracks; it only takes you where others have been before. He wanted to break his own trail. I think "organic" finally doesn't mean much beyond being a synonym for free verse. The idea being that one creates cadences, breaks lines, walks across the field of the page in a way that is somehow more natural than counting syllables and stresses. As I noted recently on another list, recent re-readings of Levertov's remarks on the subject have convinced me that her attitude toward form was ultimately mystical. ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.mac.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== On Apr 21, 2008, at 2:36 PM, Jeff Newberry wrote: A query: A friend & I are having a long, interesting conversation about poetic rhythm and scansion. I thought that I was winning our faux-debate. Then, I realized that I was using the word organic without a real understanding of its definition. So, here's the question: what does organic mean as the word applies to poetry? If you can point me toward some books/articles, I'd be much obliged as well. I know about Levertov's essay, but I'd appreciate any other suggestions. For the record, my sense of the word is something like this: organic poetry refers to poems in which words and rhythm are joined in an inseparable way; in an organic poem, you can't talk about rhythm without talking about the words/images. Or something like that. As I said, I'm really unclear on what the word means. All my best, Jeff Newberry -- "Why are you wearing that stupid *man* suit?" http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at earthlink.net Mon Apr 21 18:13:08 2008 From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson) Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2008 18:13:08 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Organic? In-Reply-To: <002801c8a3f7$26830730$3b874682@win.louisiana.edu> References: <002801c8a3f7$26830730$3b874682@win.louisiana.edu> Message-ID: <6A816097-FBDE-496C-A6AC-DB55088A40C0@earthlink.net> My answer, Skip, is that playing tennis without the net is much, much harder than playing it with the net. The whole game's the same, but you have to imagine the net. Hal "How strange we are, to call what happens anything at all." --Robert Kelly Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html On Apr 21, 2008, at 5:31 PM, Skip Fox wrote: > Frost said writing free verse was like playing tennis without a net. > > (My answer: When I write, I don?t want to play tennis.) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Opus40-01 at opus40.org Mon Apr 21 18:16:38 2008 From: Opus40-01 at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2008 18:16:38 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Organic? In-Reply-To: <6A816097-FBDE-496C-A6AC-DB55088A40C0@earthlink.net> References: <002801c8a3f7$26830730$3b874682@win.louisiana.edu> <6A816097-FBDE-496C-A6AC-DB55088A40C0@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <480D1246.8030703@opus40.org> Makes for more arguments. Like when my brother and I used to play baseball with no fielders. We'd have to argue over whether the shortstop would have gotten that one, or whether it would have gone through for a hti. Halvard Johnson wrote: > My answer, Skip, is that playing tennis without the > net is much, much harder than playing it with the net. > The whole game's the same, but you have to imagine > the net. > > Hal > > "How strange we are, to call what happens > anything at all." > --Robert Kelly > > Halvard Johnson > ================ > halvard at earthlink.net > http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html > > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > http://www.hamiltonstone.org > http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html > > > > On Apr 21, 2008, at 5:31 PM, Skip Fox wrote: > >> Frost said writing free verse was like playing tennis without a net. >> >> >> >> (My answer: When I write, I don?t want to play tennis.) > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ The moral is this: in American verse, The better you are, the pay is worse. --Corey Ford From Rsgwynn1 at cs.com Mon Apr 21 18:29:05 2008 From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com (Rsgwynn1 at cs.com) Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2008 18:29:05 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Organic? Message-ID: Free verse is like playing tennis with your pants down. --R. S. Gwynn -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tsmclain at charter.net Mon Apr 21 18:35:39 2008 From: tsmclain at charter.net (Terry McLain) Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2008 18:35:39 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Organic? In-Reply-To: <002801c8a3f7$26830730$3b874682@win.louisiana.edu> References: <200804212100.m3LL03nr028128@mail62c35.nsolutionszone.com> <002801c8a3f7$26830730$3b874682@win.louisiana.edu> Message-ID: Possibly the word needs to be extended first, before looking for congruences to elements of a poem. What if organic were to mean "of the organism-something living" that is capable (like organic computing-thanks to Wikipedia) "of self-configuration, self-optimization, self-healing, and/or self-protection." Then we would be looking for a poem that builds and maintains itself. Allowing for just a little help from the poet, wouldn't that describe something that survives for years? A poem of the Canon? _____ From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Skip Fox Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 5:32 PM To: 'NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views' Subject: RE: [New-Poetry] Organic? Frost said writing free verse was like playing tennis without a net. (My answer: When I write, I don't want to play tennis.) Olson's "Projective Verse" is a central and relatively early document (though the concept of an organic poetry was laid out at least as early as Pound's essays on Imagism) concerning this issue. -----Original Message----- From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of David Graham Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 4:00 PM To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views Subject: [New-Poetry] Organic? Best discussion I know of would be in the old *Naked Poetry* anthologies, edited by Stephen Berg & Robert Mezey, which in addition to a range of free verse poetry, collects brief essays on poetics by Levertov, Bly, Levine, Kinnell, Snyder, and others. Organic is, as I understand it, a fairly obvious loaded metaphor in praise of "open form" poetry as being somehow more natural, earthy, naked, and so forth. Kinnell said somewhere (maybe in one of those anthologies) that writing in traditional forms was like walking across a snowy field in someone else's boot tracks; it only takes you where others have been before. He wanted to break his own trail. I think "organic" finally doesn't mean much beyond being a synonym for free verse. The idea being that one creates cadences, breaks lines, walks across the field of the page in a way that is somehow more natural than counting syllables and stresses. As I noted recently on another list, recent re-readings of Levertov's remarks on the subject have convinced me that her attitude toward form was ultimately mystical. ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.mac.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== On Apr 21, 2008, at 2:36 PM, Jeff Newberry wrote: A query: A friend & I are having a long, interesting conversation about poetic rhythm and scansion. I thought that I was winning our faux-debate. Then, I realized that I was using the word organic without a real understanding of its definition. So, here's the question: what does organic mean as the word applies to poetry? If you can point me toward some books/articles, I'd be much obliged as well. I know about Levertov's essay, but I'd appreciate any other suggestions. For the record, my sense of the word is something like this: organic poetry refers to poems in which words and rhythm are joined in an inseparable way; in an organic poem, you can't talk about rhythm without talking about the words/images. Or something like that. As I said, I'm really unclear on what the word means. All my best, Jeff Newberry -- "Why are you wearing that stupid *man* suit?" http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Mon Apr 21 20:02:56 2008 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2008 20:02:56 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Aram Saroyan In-Reply-To: <200804211225.m3LCPQi5007182@mail27c35.nsolutionszone.com> References: <200804211225.m3LCPQi5007182@mail27c35.nsolutionszone.com> Message-ID: <8CA72235A30D9BD-D88-3B0E@webmail-dd06.sysops.aol.com> Boy, Bill really got his knickers in knot(t) over that award. Last week I read Silliman's thoughtful recounting of his process in picking the winner. It seemed a model for judging contests at any level. I can understand some pique on aesthestic grounds. It's fair to ask if Saroyan's poems are novelties. ?But I like the idea that a different kind of poet got the award. So many of these prizes leave one shrugging. Safe, predictable picks. Knott's rebuke of PSA and Silliman 's judging reminds me of Donald Justice taking exception to Simic winning the Pulitzer with book of prose poems. As if the prose poem were some kind of invasive species, injurious to native poetry. Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: David Graham To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu & Views Sent: Mon, 21 Apr 2008 8:25 am Subject: [New-Poetry] Aram Saroyan Winner of the William Carlos Williams Award, for his *Complete Minimal Poems*. ?Judge was Ron Silliman. ?Read about it here: http://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/ (Scroll down to 4/18) Read a blistering attack on all the above here: http://billknott.typepad.com/billknott/2008/04/20/index.html ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.mac.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== = _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Rsgwynn1 at cs.com Mon Apr 21 20:12:02 2008 From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com (Rsgwynn1 at cs.com) Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2008 20:12:02 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Aram Saroyan Message-ID: In a message dated 4/21/2008 7:03:23 PM Central Daylight Time, jforjames at aol.com writes: > > Knott's rebuke of PSA and Silliman 's judging reminds me of Donald Justice > taking exception to Simic winning the Pulitzer with book of prose poems. As if > the prose poem were some kind of invasive species, injurious to native > poetry. > > Finnegan I think that was Louis Simpson, who protested that the offical name of the award was for verse. Whatever you can say about prose poetry, it ain't verse. Sam -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Mon Apr 21 20:13:38 2008 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2008 20:13:38 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Organic? In-Reply-To: <002801c8a3f7$26830730$3b874682@win.louisiana.edu> Message-ID: <8CA7224D8CF1B03-D88-3BD3@webmail-dd06.sysops.aol.com> Or what's wrong with playing with an?imaginary net: How about?playing tennis with a net that rises and falls randomly, both in timing and extension? That would keep a poet on his toes. Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: Skip Fox Sent: Mon, 21 Apr 2008 5:31 pm Subject: RE: [New-Poetry] Organic? Frost said writing free verse was like playing tennis without a net. ? (My answer: When I write, I don?t want to play tennis.) ? Olson?s ?Projective Verse? is a central and relatively early document (though the concept of an organic poetry was laid out at least as early as Pound?s essays on Imagism) concerning this issue. ? -----Original Message----- From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of David Graham Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 4:00 PM To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views Subject: [New-Poetry] Organic? ? Best discussion I know of would be in the old *Naked Poetry* anthologies, edited by Stephen Berg & Robert Mezey, which in addition to a range of free verse poetry, collects brief essays on poetics by Levertov, Bly, Levine, Kinnell, Snyder, and others. ? ? Organic is, as I understand it, a fairly obvious loaded metaphor in praise of "open form" poetry as being somehow more natural, earthy, naked, and so forth. ?Kinnell said somewhere (maybe in one of those anthologies) that writing in traditional forms was like walking across a snowy field in someone else's boot tracks; it only takes you where others have been before. ?He wanted to break his own trail. ? ? I think "organic" finally doesn't mean much beyond being a synonym for free verse. ?The idea being that one creates cadences, breaks lines, walks across the field of the page in a way that is somehow more natural than counting syllables and stresses. ?As I noted recently on another list, recent re-readings of Levertov's remarks on the subject have convinced me that her attitude toward form was ultimately mystical. ? ? ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu ? Home Page: http://web.mac.com/drjazz ? Poetry Library: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== ? ? On Apr 21, 2008, at 2:36 PM, Jeff Newberry wrote: A query: A friend & I are having a long, interesting conversation about poetic rhythm and scansion.? I thought that I was winning our faux-debate.? Then, I realized that I was using the word organic without a real understanding of its definition. So, here's the question:? what does organic mean as the word applies to poetry? If you can point me toward some books/articles, I'd be much obliged as well.? I know about Levertov's essay, but I'd appreciate any other suggestions. For the record, my sense of the word is something like this:? organic poetry refers to poems in which words and rhythm are joined in an inseparable way; in an organic poem, you can't talk about rhythm without talking about the words/images.? Or something like that.? As I said, I'm really unclear on what the word means. All my best, Jeff Newberry -- "Why are you wearing that stupid *man* suit?" http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry ? _______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Mon Apr 21 20:14:57 2008 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2008 20:14:57 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Organic? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8CA722507D7A109-D88-3BE4@webmail-dd06.sysops.aol.com> I guess that's why they call it naked poetry. -----Original Message----- From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Mon, 21 Apr 2008 6:29 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Organic? Free verse is like playing tennis with your pants down. --R. S. Gwynn _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Mon Apr 21 20:16:37 2008 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2008 20:16:37 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Aram Saroyan In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8CA722543C3F8A7-D88-3C09@webmail-dd06.sysops.aol.com> Perhaps it's verse at an?arbitrary turn? Thanks for the correction. Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Mon, 21 Apr 2008 8:12 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Aram Saroyan In a message dated 4/21/2008 7:03:23 PM Central Daylight Time, jforjames at aol.com writes: Knott's rebuke of PSA and Silliman 's judging reminds me of Donald Justice taking exception to Simic winning the Pulitzer with book of prose poems. As if the prose poem were some kind of invasive species, injurious to native poetry. Finnegan I think that was Louis Simpson, who protested that the offical name of the award was for verse.? Whatever you can say about prose poetry, it ain't verse. Sam _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Rsgwynn1 at cs.com Mon Apr 21 20:18:20 2008 From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com (Rsgwynn1 at cs.com) Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2008 20:18:20 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Organic? Message-ID: In a message dated 4/21/2008 7:14:13 PM Central Daylight Time, jforjames at aol.com writes: > > Or what's wrong with playing with an imaginary net: How about playing tennis > with a net that rises and falls randomly, both in timing and extension? > That would keep a poet on his toes. > Finnegan > Have any of you actually played tennis? A real net is challenge enough. Frost played tennis. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at earthlink.net Mon Apr 21 20:22:03 2008 From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson) Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2008 20:22:03 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Organic? In-Reply-To: <480D1246.8030703@opus40.org> References: <002801c8a3f7$26830730$3b874682@win.louisiana.edu> <6A816097-FBDE-496C-A6AC-DB55088A40C0@earthlink.net> <480D1246.8030703@opus40.org> Message-ID: <17B1B3EF-07D2-42B1-BC38-0FD22738DE11@earthlink.net> Perfect! Hal Caution: The Moving Walkway Is Ending Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html On Apr 21, 2008, at 6:16 PM, TheOldMole wrote: > Makes for more arguments. Like when my brother and I used to play > baseball with no fielders. We'd have to argue over whether the > shortstop would have gotten that one, or whether it would have gone > through for a hti. > > Halvard Johnson wrote: >> My answer, Skip, is that playing tennis without the >> net is much, much harder than playing it with the net. >> The whole game's the same, but you have to imagine >> the net. >> >> Hal >> >> "How strange we are, to call what happens >> anything at all." >> --Robert Kelly >> >> Halvard Johnson >> ================ >> halvard at earthlink.net >> http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html > > >> http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com >> http://www.hamiltonstone.org >> http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html > > >> >> >> On Apr 21, 2008, at 5:31 PM, Skip Fox wrote: >> >>> Frost said writing free verse was like playing tennis without a net. >>> >>> >>> (My answer: When I write, I don?t want to play tennis.) >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> > > -- > Tad Richards > http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ > http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ > > The moral is this: in American verse, > The better you are, the pay is worse. > --Corey Ford > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From jforjames at aol.com Mon Apr 21 20:23:18 2008 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2008 20:23:18 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Organic? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8CA7226328BAEC1-D88-3C77@webmail-dd06.sysops.aol.com> You're serving Love-40. But I think the point is that metaphor fails. Have you played chess giving queen odds? It's a different game entirely. Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Mon, 21 Apr 2008 8:18 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Organic? In a message dated 4/21/2008 7:14:13 PM Central Daylight Time, jforjames at aol.com writes: Or what's wrong with playing with an imaginary net: How about playing tennis with a net that rises and falls randomly, both in timing and extension? That would keep a poet on his toes. Finnegan Have any of you actually played tennis?? A real net is challenge enough.? Frost played tennis. _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Rsgwynn1 at cs.com Mon Apr 21 20:35:02 2008 From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com (Rsgwynn1 at cs.com) Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2008 20:35:02 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Aram Saroyan Message-ID: In a message dated 4/21/2008 7:17:17 PM Central Daylight Time, jforjames at aol.com writes: > > Perhaps it's verse at an arbitrary turn? Thanks for the correction. > Finnegan > > No, verse, by any measure, involves a decision where the line turns/ends/breaks. Prose has that decided for it by the width of the paper, column, page, or word-processor margin. Line, by whatever measure, is the unit of verse; sentence, which has no measure, is the unit of prose. Verse is verse, and prose is prose, and ne'er the twain shall meet. Free verse is lineated by some kind of choice; metrical verse is lineated by some kind of measure; prose is unlineated. Cutting a passage of prose into lines, no matter how arbitrary the choices of break, changes it into verse (consider the verse that was made of Dick Cheyney's public utterances). Printing lines of metrical verse with no indications of line breaks, changes it into prose. There are passages of Melville and Douglass, which I have posted here before, that are in the prose mode. If broken, by the measure of blank verse, they could be dealt with as verse; but because they were not printed as such, they will remain prose passages (with verse "imbedded" withing them). A "prose poem," despite its seeming contradiction, is no contradiction at all: poetry (a genre) may be written in either prose or verse. Fiction or drama, for that matter, may be written in either mode as well, witness a "verse novel" like David Mason's Ludlow or the many examples of verse drama. Poetry, of course, has traditionally been written in verse, a fact which muddies the waters somewhat; still, there is no reason why poetry cannot be written in prose, as many have proven in the past. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From duemer at gmail.com Mon Apr 21 20:46:00 2008 From: duemer at gmail.com (Joseph Duemer) Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2008 20:46:00 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Organic? In-Reply-To: <8CA7226328BAEC1-D88-3C77@webmail-dd06.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CA7226328BAEC1-D88-3C77@webmail-dd06.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: *Makes for more arguments. Like when my brother and I used to play baseball with no fielders. We'd have to argue over whether the shortstop would have gotten that one, or whether it would have gone through for a hit. *In which the discussion would have been the main point, rather than the game. But the term organic goes back to the German & British Romantics, who used it to set their work apart from the "artifice" of 18th century verse. An attempt to ground poetic practice in an emerging understanding of the natural world. Organic = natural. In 20th century poetry, A.R. Ammons' poem "Corson's Inlet" pretty much puts the case for organic form. (By the way, Paul Lake has written an essay (which I think fails to make its case), "The Shape of Poetry," that uses Ammons' poem as a kind of whipping boy. (See: *The Measured Word: On Poetry & Science*, which contains a number of remarkably unsuccessful arguments -- American poets seem drawn to a kind of faint-hearted scientism these days.) jd -- Joseph Duemer Professor of Humanities Clarkson University Weblog: sharpsand.net -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Mon Apr 21 20:46:37 2008 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2008 20:46:37 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Aram Saroyan In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8CA72297452B048-ADC-AAA@WEBMAIL-MC16.sysops.aol.com> Sam, I'll concede the definition of 'verse'. I concede no essential?magic in 'the turn'. Sydney said as much. Finnegan? -----Original Message----- From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Mon, 21 Apr 2008 8:35 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Aram Saroyan In a message dated 4/21/2008 7:17:17 PM Central Daylight Time, jforjames at aol.com writes: Perhaps it's verse at an arbitrary turn? Thanks for the correction. Finnegan No, verse, by any measure, involves a decision where the line turns/ends/breaks.? Prose has that decided for it by the width of the paper, column, page, or word-processor margin.? Line, by whatever measure, is the unit of verse; sentence, which has no measure, is the unit of prose.? Verse is verse, and prose is prose, and ne'er the twain shall meet.? Free verse is lineated by some kind of choice; metrical verse is lineated by some kind of measure; prose is unlineated.? Cutting a passage of prose into lines, no matter how arbitrary the choices of break, changes it into verse (consider the verse that was made of Dick Cheyney's public utterances).? Printing lines of metrical verse with no indications of line breaks, changes it into prose.? There are passages of Melville and Douglass, which I have posted here before, that are in the prose mode.? If broken, by the measure of blank verse, they could be dealt with as verse; but because they were not printed as such, they will remain prose passages (with verse "imbedded" withing them).? A "prose poem," despite its seeming contradiction, is no contradiction at all: poetry (a genre) may be written in either prose or verse.? Fiction or drama, for that matter, may be written in either mode as well, witness a "verse novel" like David Mason's Ludlow or the many examples of verse drama.? Poetry, of course, has traditionally been written in verse, a fact which muddies the waters somewhat; still, there is no reason why poetry cannot be written in prose, as many have proven in the past. _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Mon Apr 21 21:56:40 2008 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2008 20:56:40 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Organic? In-Reply-To: <480D06C2.7060706@opus40.org> References: <731bb17a0804211236u41c8af3fgc1bde86f2ea7a3ec@mail.gmail.com> <480D06C2.7060706@opus40.org> Message-ID: <480D45D8.9000606@nut-n-but.net> TheOldMole wrote: > I've always thought of the opposite of organic, in art, as > /conceptual/. Organic art is art that comes from the making of it, > that's worked and takes shape through your hands. Christo I see as > conceptual rather than organic. Much of Duchamp. Much of Johns. > Poetry -- I'll step out of the way nimbly, and let the flying > brickbats hit Jeff -- Aram Saroyan. Joan Retallack. > Saroyan's pwoermds are too short to be characterized organic or conceptual, I think. In your sense. They are certainly conceptual, though. But conceptuality can be organic, it seems to me. I'm sure most poets are partly each. But for the opposite of organic, I'd cite Pope, all formalists, really. When I make my own long division poems, I have a strong sense of when one is coming out mechanically, when organically. It's all subjective, though. From jforjames at aol.com Mon Apr 21 21:15:04 2008 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2008 21:15:04 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Aphorismo In-Reply-To: <7DB83E3C5FB64B14A04BE6F2A25B6A44@TerryPC> References: <8CA6DFA0B27D865-100-AE7@WEBMAIL-DC11.sysops.aol.com> <7DB83E3C5FB64B14A04BE6F2A25B6A44@TerryPC> Message-ID: <8CA722D6E454BCE-ADC-C65@WEBMAIL-MC16.sysops.aol.com> A couple of poets who have 'aphorized'... http://www.believermag.com/issues/200506/?read=review_richardson James Richardson http://alfredcornsweblog.blogspot.com/2008/03/new-formalism-misnomer.html Alfred Corn (see Pith Helmet) Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: Terry McLain To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Mon, 21 Apr 2008 11:16 am Subject: RE: [New-Poetry] Aphorismo The problem with aphorisms is the moment you realize just who else is saying ?How true.? ? From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of jforjames at aol.com Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2008 12:57 PM To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Subject: [New-Poetry] Aphorismo ? The aphorsim which straddles the realms of poetry and philosophy and proverbs, had a conference devoted to the genre... http://www.jamesgeary.com/blog/?p=149 Get the MapQuest Toolbar, Maps, Traffic, Directions & More! _______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From duemer at gmail.com Mon Apr 21 21:16:00 2008 From: duemer at gmail.com (Joseph Duemer) Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2008 21:16:00 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Organic? In-Reply-To: <480D45D8.9000606@nut-n-but.net> References: <731bb17a0804211236u41c8af3fgc1bde86f2ea7a3ec@mail.gmail.com> <480D06C2.7060706@opus40.org> <480D45D8.9000606@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: Bob, you'll be interested to note that Paul Lake, in the essay I cited, argues that metrical poets are the most "organic" because the brain works in patterns. (I'm obviously simplifying his argument, but not misrepresenting it, I think.) jd On Mon, Apr 21, 2008 at 9:56 PM, Bob Grumman wrote: > > > TheOldMole wrote: > > > I've always thought of the opposite of organic, in art, as /conceptual/. > > Organic art is art that comes from the making of it, that's worked and takes > > shape through your hands. Christo I see as conceptual rather than organic. > > Much of Duchamp. Much of Johns. Poetry -- I'll step out of the way nimbly, > > and let the flying brickbats hit Jeff -- Aram Saroyan. Joan Retallack. > > > > Saroyan's pwoermds are too short to be characterized organic or > conceptual, I think. In your sense. They are certainly conceptual, though. > But conceptuality can be organic, it seems to me. I'm sure most poets are > partly each. But for the opposite of organic, I'd cite Pope, all > formalists, really. When I make my own long division poems, I have a strong > sense of when one is coming out mechanically, when organically. It's all > subjective, though. > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Joseph Duemer Professor of Humanities Clarkson University Weblog: sharpsand.net -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From alexdickow9 at yahoo.com Mon Apr 21 22:33:29 2008 From: alexdickow9 at yahoo.com (Alexander Dickow) Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2008 19:33:29 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Organic? In-Reply-To: <200804212057.m3LKvDcO008209@wiz.cath.vt.edu> Message-ID: <441466.39923.qm@web35502.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Jeff et al., People also talk about the "organic unity" of works of art, to describe the relation of dependance that parts have to the whole: take the part out (a line from a Baudelaire sonnet, or something, say), and the whole doesn't make sense. Thus defined, an "inorganic" poem might look like a Benjamin Peret surrealist poem, or varieties of Bob's "jump-cut" poetry: take a part out and it might make sense on its own, but it won't really affect the whole poem that much. That's from Peter Burger's (outdated, yet once very important) Theory of the Avant-Garde. But I don't know how the term applies to meter and rhythm. Amicalement, Alex, suffering from two rejections in one day www.alexdickow.net/blog/ les mots! ah quel d?sert ? la fin merveilleux. -- Henri Droguet From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Tue Apr 22 07:19:58 2008 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2008 06:19:58 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Organic? In-Reply-To: References: <731bb17a0804211236u41c8af3fgc1bde86f2ea7a3ec@mail.gmail.com><480D06C2.7060706@opus40.org> <480D45D8.9000606@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <480DC9DE.70804@nut-n-but.net> Joseph Duemer wrote: > Bob, you'll be interested to note that Paul Lake, in the essay I > cited, argues that metrical poets are the most "organic" because the > brain works in patterns. (I'm obviously simplifying his argument, but > not misrepresenting it, I think.) > > jd That's a good argument--except for the "most," since all poems come out in patterns of some sort. I would only argue, then, that formalists are most likely not to be organic--when it's the pattern composing their poems and not the poem itself. I would also opine that it's not "natural"--or "organic"--to adhere to too limited a pattern, or to any pattern too long, as Pope does. --Bob From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Tue Apr 22 08:05:14 2008 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2008 07:05:14 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Aram Saroyan In-Reply-To: <8CA72235A30D9BD-D88-3B0E@webmail-dd06.sysops.aol.com> References: <200804211225.m3LCPQi5007182@mail27c35.nsolutionszone.com> <8CA72235A30D9BD-D88-3B0E@webmail-dd06.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <480DD47A.3090907@nut-n-but.net> Where Is Knott's rebuke of Silliman's choice of Saroyan's book for the Williams prize, James? I didn't find it among the comments at Silliman's blog--all of which, surprisingly, have so far been positive. (What's going on?) Saroyan's minimalist poems are novelties only to someone with no sensitivity to the haiku moment, or sensation/insight haiku and poems like them provide those capable of experiencing them. --Bob G. From halvard at earthlink.net Tue Apr 22 09:13:16 2008 From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson) Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2008 09:13:16 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Sonnet: Tropical Forest with Monkeys In-Reply-To: <648208b60804220544v28b1924duea6aab3616608912@mail.gmail.com> References: <9CDC0C27-6C91-44E5-ADA5-664DDBB7CF2A@earthlink.net> <648208b60804220544v28b1924duea6aab3616608912@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <9734DD01-9E47-4CF3-A799-C39E22806A01@earthlink.net> Not much in the way of borrowed words here, but the general notion came after seeing, somewhere or other online, a study guide for teachers re the Rousseau. And then there was the Rousseau, of course. Hal "If you want to make God laugh, tell him what you're doing tomorrow." --Mychal Judge, Chaplain, NYFD Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html On Apr 22, 2008, at 8:44 AM, James Cervantes wrote: > Did I tell you I got a kick out of this? What was/were the source > text(s)? > > - Jeem > > On Sun, Apr 13, 2008 at 11:10 AM, Halvard Johnson > wrote: > Sonnet: Tropical Forest with Monkeys > > When you take your monkeys fishing in the forest > it's important to remind them not to leave their fishing > poles behind. Animals, as we know, often have human > traits and characteristics, and vice versa. If they express > > fear of the forest, point out to them that the jungle is not > as deep as it once was. Farming and lumbering and strip- > mining have now seen to that. Have your monkeys express > their thoughts and fears in little balloons above their heads. > > Consider having them write little screenplays that, once home, > they can act in as well as direct and produce to share with > a wider audience. Bringing along journals and making entries > in them whenever they have a spare moment is never a bad idea. > > Monkeys, whether macaques or langurs or gibbons, all enjoy > trips to the forest. They always have a good time. > > > > Hal > > Halvard Johnson > ================ > halvard at earthlink.net > http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > http://www.hamiltonstone.org > http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at earthlink.net Tue Apr 22 09:14:51 2008 From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson) Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2008 09:14:51 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Sonnet: Portrait (in Photo Captions) of Chaim Soutine Message-ID: Sonnet: Portrait (in Photo Captions) of Chaim Soutine Outside the farmhouse in Le Blanc, Soutine and Paulette Jourdain pose with the dog Riquette, who belonged to the cook, Am?lie, who may have lived over a slaughterhouse in the Vaugirard District where Soutine may have bought the beef carcass for his paintings inspired by Rembrandt's "The Slaughtered Ox," 1655, which Soutine studied carefully at the Louvre. In the mid-1930s Soutine and Madeleine Castaing stand together in casual clothes in an un- identified town. Soutine in an open car with ?lie Faure and his daughter Marie Z?line at Faure's home in Prats, summer 1929. Faure's young son Jean-Paul stands nearby. Henry Miller moved to Villa Seurat on the day Tropic of Cancer appeared. The center building is No. 18, where Soutine had an apartment and studio on the second floor and Henry Miller lived on the floor above him. Soutine, in a relaxed mood, with his cigarette and a glass of milk. Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Rsgwynn1 at cs.com Tue Apr 22 10:08:38 2008 From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com (Rsgwynn1 at cs.com) Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2008 10:08:38 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Organic? Message-ID: In a message dated 4/21/2008 7:46:19 PM Central Daylight Time, duemer at gmail.com writes: > > But the term organic goes back to the German &British Romantics, who used it > to set their work apart from the "artifice" of 18th century verse. An > attempt to ground poetic practice in an emerging understanding of the natural > world. Emerson's analogy between poetry and nature in "The Poet" derives from this point of view, which Whitman echoes in his preface to Leaves of Grass. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From GRAHAMD at RIPON.EDU Tue Apr 22 10:18:11 2008 From: GRAHAMD at RIPON.EDU (David Graham) Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2008 09:18:11 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fall of Frost Message-ID: <200804221418.m3MEICHP001089@mail22c35.nsolutionszone.com> I just finished reading Brian Hall's novel *Fall of Frost*, which I strongly recommend. What Hall's done is gather all the existing biographical info about Robert Frost, and then compose a biographical novel in the form of a nonlinear collage. There's nothing quite like it, and I think Hall's done an excellent job of giving Frost his full complexity as man and poet. I'm not sure how accessible the novel will be to those who don't already know a good deal about Frost's life and career; Hall's method is total immersion, and he doesn't always pause to explain allusions. (He does extensively document his source material.) The book is chock full of quotations from real people and incidents taken directly from various published sources. One irony of the book is that Frost's estate withheld permission for him to quote extensively from the poems still under copyright, so he has to resort to paraphrase for some of the later work. But there's plenty of Frost here in his own words. Having read, I think, all the major biographies of RF, I find this maybe the most rounded portrait yet. Really fascinating. ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.mac.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tsmclain at gmail.com Tue Apr 22 11:39:21 2008 From: tsmclain at gmail.com (ts mclain) Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2008 11:39:21 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] WRITING LIFE: EDWARD HIRSCH In-Reply-To: <9b1b9dab0804202153h3ae062c0r295cd6320868f03@mail.gmail.com> References: <9b1b9dab0804202153h3ae062c0r295cd6320868f03@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <9ded96600804220839p2308bdaaxa8fb834a93a8395e@mail.gmail.com> I saw him recently read. His patience and thoughtfulness during a 50 minute Q&A was endearing. His perspective on Holocaust poetry was very important to the answers. Unfortunately, the poetry did not stick, even after his illumination. On Mon, Apr 21, 2008 at 12:53 AM, Chris Lott wrote: > On Sun, Apr 20, 2008 at 7:06 PM, wrote: > > > http://media.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/photo/2008/04/17/PH2008041703576.html > > > > Ed is a nice guy with good intentions, but can any one of you recite > one > > line from memory that he's written? > > I didn't even know he *wrote* poetry... but I can remember details of > many, many fine poems and poets that I've been introduced to by-- or > learned more about from-- his poetry columns and criticism. I guess I > assumed he must write poetry of his own, but I don't know that I've > ever read any! > > c > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd at ripon.edu Tue Apr 22 11:49:40 2008 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2008 10:49:40 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] EDWARD HIRSCH In-Reply-To: <9ded96600804220839p2308bdaaxa8fb834a93a8395e@mail.gmail.com> References: <9b1b9dab0804202153h3ae062c0r295cd6320868f03@mail.gmail.com> <9ded96600804220839p2308bdaaxa8fb834a93a8395e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <200804221549.m3MFne75029346@mail51c35.nsolutionszone.com> Edward Hirsch's most anthologized poem may be "Fast Break": http://www.uiowa.edu/~humiowa/HirschE.html The fact that Hirsch is surely a better prose appreciator of poetry than a groundbreaking poet himself puts him in some fine company, I'd say. Randall Jarrell springs immediately to mind. Others, too. ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.mac.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== > > > > On Mon, Apr 21, 2008 at 12:53 AM, Chris Lott > wrote: > On Sun, Apr 20, 2008 at 7:06 PM, wrote: > > http://media.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/photo/2008/04/17/ > PH2008041703576.html > > > > Ed is a nice guy with good intentions, but can any one of you > recite one > > line from memory that he's written? > > I didn't even know he *wrote* poetry... but I can remember details of > many, many fine poems and poets that I've been introduced to by-- or > learned more about from-- his poetry columns and criticism. I guess I > assumed he must write poetry of his own, but I don't know that I've > ever read any! > > c -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Rsgwynn1 at cs.com Tue Apr 22 11:57:12 2008 From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com (Rsgwynn1 at cs.com) Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2008 11:57:12 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] EDWARD HIRSCH Message-ID: In a message dated 4/22/2008 10:50:35 AM Central Daylight Time, grahamd at ripon.edu writes: > > > The fact that Hirsch is surely a better prose appreciator of poetry than a > groundbreaking poet himself puts him in some fine company, I'd say. Randall > Jarrell springs immediately to mind. Others, too. > Why, though, have an anthology of sonnets edited by two poets who don't write them? Other than the name value. But I guess that would be like slamming Ellmann because he didn't write modern poetry. Never mind. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From skip at louisiana.edu Tue Apr 22 15:18:11 2008 From: skip at louisiana.edu (Skip Fox) Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2008 14:18:11 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Organic? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000101c8a4ad$a0f075f0$3b874682@win.louisiana.edu> He sure did. -----Original Message----- From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Rsgwynn1 at cs.com Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 7:18 PM To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Organic? In a message dated 4/21/2008 7:14:13 PM Central Daylight Time, jforjames at aol.com writes: Or what's wrong with playing with an imaginary net: How about playing tennis with a net that rises and falls randomly, both in timing and extension? That would keep a poet on his toes. Finnegan Have any of you actually played tennis? A real net is challenge enough. Frost played tennis. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From skip at louisiana.edu Tue Apr 22 15:21:24 2008 From: skip at louisiana.edu (Skip Fox) Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2008 14:21:24 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Organic? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000601c8a4ae$14312910$3b874682@win.louisiana.edu> I like this one. It's funny. I don't have to agree with it, but it's funny. (At least I'd remove them completely.) -----Original Message----- From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Rsgwynn1 at cs.com Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 5:29 PM To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Organic? Free verse is like playing tennis with your pants down. --R. S. Gwynn -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cstroffo at earthlink.net Tue Apr 22 16:40:04 2008 From: cstroffo at earthlink.net (Chris Stroffolino) Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2008 13:40:04 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Organic? In-Reply-To: <000601c8a4ae$14312910$3b874682@win.louisiana.edu> References: <000601c8a4ae$14312910$3b874682@win.louisiana.edu> Message-ID: <7BCC3F8E-BC8E-4CE5-9EB5-F0AF6A9CC352@earthlink.net> Is Jonathan Swift's A Modest Proposal an ORGANIC (form or content) manifesto? C On Apr 22, 2008, at 12:21 PM, Skip Fox wrote: > I like this one. It?s funny. I don?t have to agree with it, but > it?s funny. > > > (At least I?d remove them completely.) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto:new-poetry- > bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Rsgwynn1 at cs.com > Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 5:29 PM > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Organic? > > > Free verse is like playing tennis with your pants down. > > --R. S. Gwynn > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd at ripon.edu Tue Apr 22 17:30:16 2008 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2008 16:30:16 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Lost & Found Finnegan Message-ID: <200804222130.m3MLUG1B007244@mail13c35.nsolutionszone.com> If you're not on the About Poetry mailing list, then you don't know that today's Special Delivery Poem is by our very own Jim Finnegan. It can also be viewed here: http://poetry.about.com/library/weekly/bljfinnegan.htm?nl=1 ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.mac.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jeff.newberry at gmail.com Tue Apr 22 17:33:09 2008 From: jeff.newberry at gmail.com (Jeff Newberry) Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2008 17:33:09 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Organic? In-Reply-To: <7BCC3F8E-BC8E-4CE5-9EB5-F0AF6A9CC352@earthlink.net> References: <000601c8a4ae$14312910$3b874682@win.louisiana.edu> <7BCC3F8E-BC8E-4CE5-9EB5-F0AF6A9CC352@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <731bb17a0804221433x5402a29do9bf5a5d9c833a6ee@mail.gmail.com> I dunno, Chris, is *Lady Chatterly's Lover* an ORGASMIC manifesto? Jeff Newberry On Tue, Apr 22, 2008 at 4:40 PM, Chris Stroffolino wrote: > > Is Jonathan Swift's A Modest Proposal an ORGANIC (form or content) > manifesto? > C > On Apr 22, 2008, at 12:21 PM, Skip Fox wrote: > > I like this one. It's funny. I don't have to agree with it, but it's > funny. > > > (At least I'd remove them completely.) > > > -----Original Message----- > *From:* new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu [ > mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] > *On Behalf Of *Rsgwynn1 at cs.com > *Sent:* Monday, April 21, 2008 5:29 PM > *To:* new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > *Subject:* Re: [New-Poetry] Organic? > > > *Free verse is like playing tennis with your pants down.* > > --R. S. Gwynn > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- "Why are you wearing that stupid *man* suit?" http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poemlady at cox.net Tue Apr 22 17:56:47 2008 From: poemlady at cox.net (Audrey Friedman) Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2008 17:56:47 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] WRITING LIFE: EDWARD HIRSCH References: <9b1b9dab0804202153h3ae062c0r295cd6320868f03@mail.gmail.com> <9ded96600804220839p2308bdaaxa8fb834a93a8395e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <007f01c8a4c3$c2d02ce0$6401a8c0@Zoom> Have you read his latest, "Special Orders"? You might feel differently. I was immediately aware that Hirsch adopted a more intimate tone and more personal topics. I'm curious to see what you think. And he did include some original Holocaust-related poems that were very memorable for me. Audrey ----- Original Message ----- From: ts mclain To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &,Views Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 11:39 AM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] WRITING LIFE: EDWARD HIRSCH I saw him recently read. His patience and thoughtfulness during a 50 minute Q&A was endearing. His perspective on Holocaust poetry was very important to the answers. Unfortunately, the poetry did not stick, even after his illumination. On Mon, Apr 21, 2008 at 12:53 AM, Chris Lott wrote: On Sun, Apr 20, 2008 at 7:06 PM, wrote: > http://media.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/photo/2008/04/17/PH2008041703576.html > > Ed is a nice guy with good intentions, but can any one of you recite one > line from memory that he's written? I didn't even know he *wrote* poetry... but I can remember details of many, many fine poems and poets that I've been introduced to by-- or learned more about from-- his poetry columns and criticism. I guess I assumed he must write poetry of his own, but I don't know that I've ever read any! c _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From duemer at gmail.com Tue Apr 22 18:27:44 2008 From: duemer at gmail.com (Joseph Duemer) Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2008 18:27:44 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Organic? In-Reply-To: <731bb17a0804221433x5402a29do9bf5a5d9c833a6ee@mail.gmail.com> References: <000601c8a4ae$14312910$3b874682@win.louisiana.edu> <7BCC3F8E-BC8E-4CE5-9EB5-F0AF6A9CC352@earthlink.net> <731bb17a0804221433x5402a29do9bf5a5d9c833a6ee@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: "Is Jonathan Swift's A Modest Proposal an ORGANIC (form or content) manifesto?" Only if the Irish babies haven't been given hormones while fattening on the feedlot. jd On Tue, Apr 22, 2008 at 5:33 PM, Jeff Newberry wrote: > I dunno, Chris, is *Lady Chatterly's Lover* an ORGASMIC manifesto? > > Jeff Newberry > > > On Tue, Apr 22, 2008 at 4:40 PM, Chris Stroffolino > wrote: > > > > > Is Jonathan Swift's A Modest Proposal an ORGANIC (form or content) > > manifesto?Is Jonathan Swift's A Modest Proposal an ORGANIC (form or > > content) manifesto? > > C > > On Apr 22, 2008, at 12:21 PM, Skip Fox wrote: > > > > I like this one. It's funny. I don't have to agree with it, but it's > > funny. > > > > > > (At least I'd remove them completely.) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > *From:* new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu [ > > mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] > > *On Behalf Of *Rsgwynn1 at cs.com > > *Sent:* Monday, April 21, 2008 5:29 PM > > *To:* new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > *Subject:* Re: [New-Poetry] Organic? > > > > > > *Free verse is like playing tennis with your pants down.* > > > > --R. S. Gwynn > > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > > > -- > "Why are you wearing that stupid *man* suit?" > > http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Joseph Duemer Professor of Humanities Clarkson University Weblog: sharpsand.net -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at tin.it Tue Apr 22 20:02:22 2008 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (anny.ballardini at tin.it) Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2008 01:02:22 +0100 (GMT+01:00) Subject: R: [New-Poetry] Lost & Found Finnegan Message-ID: <11978968b7f.anny.ballardini@tin.it> Thank you David, these are excellent poems, cheers to Jim Finnegan, as usual! Anny ----Messaggio originale---- Da: grahamd at ripon.edu Data: 22-apr-2008 11.30 PM A: "new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu & Views" Ogg: [New-Poetry] Lost & Found Finnegan If you're not on the About Poetry mailing list, then you don't know that today's Special Delivery Poem is by our very own Jim Finnegan. It can also be viewed here: http://poetry.about. com/library/weekly/bljfinnegan.htm?nl=1 ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.mac.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.mac. com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new- poetry From Opus40-01 at opus40.org Tue Apr 22 20:07:56 2008 From: Opus40-01 at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2008 20:07:56 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Lost & Found Finnegan In-Reply-To: <200804222130.m3MLUG1B007244@mail13c35.nsolutionszone.com> References: <200804222130.m3MLUG1B007244@mail13c35.nsolutionszone.com> Message-ID: <480E7DDC.10900@opus40.org> Good stuff. David Graham wrote: > If you're not on the About Poetry mailing list, then you don't know > that today's Special Delivery Poem is by our very own Jim Finnegan. > > It can also be viewed here: > > http://poetry.about.com/library/weekly/bljfinnegan.htm?nl=1 > > > > ======================================== > David Graham > grahamd at ripon.edu > > Home Page: > http://web.mac.com/drjazz > > Poetry Library: > http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html > ========================================== > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ The moral is this: in American verse, The better you are, the pay is worse. --Corey Ford From balipoet at gmail.com Wed Apr 23 06:19:41 2008 From: balipoet at gmail.com (tzafnat paneach) Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2008 04:19:41 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] please post new poem Message-ID: <4a83d05b0804230319y368e4bc2s5875110c02ca4ed1@mail.gmail.com> *at-one-ment* holy, holy, holy are the murderous glorious (*and simply fabulous*) martyrs! bomber and bombed fused at last atoned. *Allahu Akbar! Baruch Hashem! * Let my people go! or else motherfucker I will hail upon thee blood bones brains teeth nails screws nuts bolts glass and ball bearings. Pharaoh's heart hardened as terror dripped like Paschal blood from the fingers of Baruch Goldstein O flaming guardian of the Tomb of the Patriarchs Mosque Ibrahimi where Abraham lies. * In the beginning* Abraham took his favored son who he loved to the land of Moriah to offer him as a burnt offering to God. *Allahu Akbar! Baruch Hashem! *Which son? Yishaq? Ishmael? *Putz,* does it really matter? for it is the God of Abraham who is being tested. Abraham and God are now bound their love consummated in a covenant of blood fate and faith fused the destiny of chosen nations as numerous as the stars detonated. *Allahu Akbar! Baruch Hashem! * Ayat Akras fasts scrubs her olive skin shaves her pubic hair* *mouths the syllables of her* Shahada* (piously like cousin Baruch who *davened* his *Shema*) straps on the sticks of her *dhabih* and forges her own gateway into heaven (no need for gazelle-eyed *houris* to welcome her to her -- Ayat is a modern woman!) *Allahu Akbar! Baruch Hashem!* After the torrent of shrapnel settles a convoy of trucks sanitize the altar with brooms, brushes, bleach and steel wool. The veil of order is restored to this God centered world where vengeance is the trembling brim that overspills into everything as it seeks as it seeks atonement. - Beryl Dov Lew -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chris.lott at gmail.com Wed Apr 23 10:31:01 2008 From: chris.lott at gmail.com (Chris Lott) Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2008 06:31:01 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] Organic? In-Reply-To: <480D10D2.8010505@nut-n-but.net> References: <731bb17a0804211236u41c8af3fgc1bde86f2ea7a3ec@mail.gmail.com> <480D10D2.8010505@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <9b1b9dab0804230731r5ceb3b3bt82bd26fa1973d59d@mail.gmail.com> On Mon, Apr 21, 2008 at 2:10 PM, Bob Grumman wrote: > > It seems to me pretty much a null term. I doubt that anyone > has given it a rigorous definition. I can think of only one super hero in the poetry pantheon suitable to the task of dealing with this dilemma... Bob, time to don your cape (and tights if you must)! c From rog3r.day at gmail.com Wed Apr 23 12:27:46 2008 From: rog3r.day at gmail.com (Roger Day) Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2008 17:27:46 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Notable Bene In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Well, there's your comment for one. It's a blizzard of comments like these that have led the wikipedia to adopt these standards. An attempt to gain respectability in the eyes of those who would never give them respectability. Maybe we should be glad that someone outside of poetry seems to care about poets. meh. Me, I'm a gnome. I clear up the spelling mistakes and the bad syntax when I can. I browse and look. It's fairly accurate - as good as the Encyclopedia Britannica for one. Nature magazine seems to think that the Wikipedia is fairly accurate. Roger On Mon, Apr 21, 2008 at 2:38 PM, wrote: > > > > In a message dated 4/21/2008 9:05:52 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, > Opus40-01 at opus40.org writes: > http://jjgallaher.blogspot.com/2008/04/are-you-notable-poet-well-are-you.html > > > God, who'd have thought that Wikipedia, that fount of erroneous information, > would worry so much about a poet? > > > ________________________________ > Need a new ride? Check out the largest site for U.S. used car listings at > AOL Autos. > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- My Stuff: http://www.badstep.net/ "She went out with her paint box, paints the chapel blue She went out with her matches, torched the car-wash too" The Go-Betweens From JforJames at aol.com Wed Apr 23 19:49:02 2008 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2008 19:49:02 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: Marie Ponsot's "Live Model" Message-ID: **************Need a new ride? Check out the largest site for U.S. used car listings at AOL Autos. (http://autos.aol.com/used?NCID=aolcmp00300000002851) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: "Knopf Poetry" Subject: Marie Ponsot's "Live Model" Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2008 08:56:15 -0400 (EDT) Size: 13995 URL: From JforJames at aol.com Wed Apr 23 19:58:16 2008 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2008 19:58:16 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Organic? Message-ID: In a message dated 4/22/2008 10:09:38 AM Eastern Daylight Time, Rsgwynn1 at cs.com writes: Emerson's analogy between poetry and nature in "The Poet" derives from this point of view, which Whitman echoes in his preface to Leaves of Grass. - I have a friend who owns an early Leaves of Grass, and in it, in Whitman's hand, is written: (in paraphrase) One can criticize a cathedral, but how to criticizes a forest. Finnegan **************Need a new ride? Check out the largest site for U.S. used car listings at AOL Autos. (http://autos.aol.com/used?NCID=aolcmp00300000002851) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames at aol.com Wed Apr 23 20:02:26 2008 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2008 20:02:26 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Aram Saroyan Message-ID: Read a blistering attack on all the above here: _http://billknott.typepad.com/billknott/2008/04/20/index.html_ (http://billknott.typepad.com/billknott/2008/04/20/index.html) Bob, David Graham pointed to Knott's taking exception. Finnegan **************Need a new ride? Check out the largest site for U.S. used car listings at AOL Autos. (http://autos.aol.com/used?NCID=aolcmp00300000002851) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chris.lott at gmail.com Wed Apr 23 20:34:26 2008 From: chris.lott at gmail.com (Chris Lott) Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2008 16:34:26 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] Aram Saroyan In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <9b1b9dab0804231734x18bc138dye6486afe61dae9c5@mail.gmail.com> I thought this quote in the comments at Silliman's blog unintentionally summed it all up well: "I was once in Cambridge with Aram Saroyan who some of you may know of, who at that time was writing one-word poems. He would sit and smoke some dope and type one word and sit and look at it for hours and take it out and type it again. Originally they were words like "oxygen" and then one day the word "leukemia" appeared . . . ." An anecdote that might evoke a certain kind of pathos but still does nothing to make any of those single words a poem of value to this reader (just when I thought a poem could get less interesting than JOE). Even "lighght" is of more interest! c From Opus40-01 at opus40.org Wed Apr 23 20:42:06 2008 From: Opus40-01 at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2008 20:42:06 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Aram Saroyan In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <480FD75E.2040604@opus40.org> He's proud of voting for Logan? JforJames at aol.com wrote: > > Read a blistering attack on all the above here: > > http://billknott.typepad.com/billknott/2008/04/20/index.html > > > > Bob, David Graham pointed to Knott's taking exception. > Finnegan > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Need a new ride? Check out the largest site for U.S. used car listings > at AOL Autos . > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ The moral is this: in American verse, The better you are, the pay is worse. --Corey Ford From chris.lott at gmail.com Wed Apr 23 20:42:32 2008 From: chris.lott at gmail.com (Chris Lott) Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2008 16:42:32 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] Aram Saroyan In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <9b1b9dab0804231742o6757655ag5a9cb28c0a1d3dfb@mail.gmail.com> That was actually unfair. The quote just made me laugh because it evokes an attitude that I find-- well-- laughable. Many find me worse, I'm sure. I wish I'd known I was writing poems when I was repeating words while stoned not so many years ago! There are a few of Soryan's poems that I quite like and think Bob is right to point toward haiku in considering them. I'm not convinced about: lighght yet though :). So it goes. c From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Wed Apr 23 22:09:57 2008 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2008 21:09:57 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Aram Saroyan In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <480FEBF5.3040008@nut-n-but.net> JforJames at aol.com wrote: > > Read a blistering attack on all the above here: > > http://billknott.typepad.com/billknott/2008/04/20/index.html > > > > Bob, David Graham pointed to Knott's taking exception. > Finnegan I guess I missed it, or didn't realize a URL had been provided. Anyway, thanks for the URL above, which I've gone to and let off steam at. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Wed Apr 23 21:12:50 2008 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2008 21:12:50 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Aram Saroyan In-Reply-To: <480FD75E.2040604@opus40.org> References: <480FD75E.2040604@opus40.org> Message-ID: <8CA73BF72BE9DD9-C38-2FB5@webmailbeta-m09.sysops.aol.com> John (the populist poet) not William (the pooh-pooher) Logan. Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: TheOldMole Sent: Wed, 23 Apr 2008 8:42 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Aram Saroyan He's proud of voting for Logan?? ? JforJames at aol.com wrote:? >? > Read a blistering attack on all the above here:? >? > http://billknott.typepad.com/billknott/2008/04/20/index.html? >? >? > > Bob, David Graham pointed to Knott's taking exception.? > Finnegan? >? >? >? > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Wed Apr 23 22:15:57 2008 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2008 21:15:57 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Aram Saroyan In-Reply-To: <9b1b9dab0804231734x18bc138dye6486afe61dae9c5@mail.gmail.com> References: <9b1b9dab0804231734x18bc138dye6486afe61dae9c5@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <480FED5D.6050705@nut-n-but.net> Chris, doesn't it bother you at all that when you denigrate poets like Saroyan, you sound just like the poetry-readers a hundred years ago talking about free verse? While I'm writing you, let me thank you for inviting me to define "organic poetry," but I think "organic" has been subjected to too much abuse to be resuscitated. But I /have/ defined around it somewhat as when I divided poetry into classiformular and idioformular, defining the first as poetry adhering to a known form, the second as poetry each specimen of which finds its own unique form. The mechanical, in some respects, versus the organic, in some respects. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chris.lott at gmail.com Wed Apr 23 21:17:09 2008 From: chris.lott at gmail.com (Chris Lott) Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2008 17:17:09 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] Aram Saroyan In-Reply-To: <8CA73BF72BE9DD9-C38-2FB5@webmailbeta-m09.sysops.aol.com> References: <480FD75E.2040604@opus40.org> <8CA73BF72BE9DD9-C38-2FB5@webmailbeta-m09.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <9b1b9dab0804231817k708d9695v59dfdbe809ebe63a@mail.gmail.com> On Wed, Apr 23, 2008 at 5:12 PM, wrote: > John (the populist poet) not William (the pooh-pooher) Logan. i.e. the Logan that isn't alive now... I realize that William Logan is the critic everyone loves to hate, but is his poetry that horrible? I've only read a few of his poems here and there... none made my notebook of favorites, but I don't remember them with distaste. c From AlMaginnes at aol.com Wed Apr 23 21:18:34 2008 From: AlMaginnes at aol.com (AlMaginnes at aol.com) Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2008 21:18:34 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Aram Saroyan Message-ID: William Logan would have to write fifty times better than he does to live up to the standards he holds others to. Mostly his stuff (to my ear) is kind of light and pretentious. Not a terrific combination. **************Need a new ride? Check out the largest site for U.S. used car listings at AOL Autos. (http://autos.aol.com/used?NCID=aolcmp00300000002851) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com Wed Apr 23 21:20:35 2008 From: robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com (Robin Hamilton) Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2008 02:20:35 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Aram Saroyan References: <9b1b9dab0804231734x18bc138dye6486afe61dae9c5@mail.gmail.com> <480FED5D.6050705@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <035201c8a5a9$664bf850$4101a8c0@nowhereddc257a> From: Bob Grumman << While I'm writing you, let me thank you for inviting me to define "organic poetry," but I think "organic" has been subjected to too much abuse to be resuscitated. >> I'm surprised nobody's mentioned Coleridge in this thread yet -- wasn't that where the "organic" business in art/lit started from? [Which, inter alia defines much of my difference from Bob in the area of taxonomy -- lots of words tend to come accompanied by a history, and every definition should be time-stamped.] << But I have defined around it somewhat as when I divided poetry into classiformular and idioformular, defining the first as poetry adhering to a known form, the second as poetry each specimen of which finds its own unique form. The mechanical, in some respects, versus the organic, in some respects. >> Um ... yeah. Robin From chris.lott at gmail.com Wed Apr 23 21:30:21 2008 From: chris.lott at gmail.com (Chris Lott) Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2008 17:30:21 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] Aram Saroyan In-Reply-To: <480FED5D.6050705@nut-n-but.net> References: <9b1b9dab0804231734x18bc138dye6486afe61dae9c5@mail.gmail.com> <480FED5D.6050705@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <9b1b9dab0804231830p654a3c24hb3e471e91084b28f@mail.gmail.com> > Chris, doesn't it bother you at all that when you denigrate poets like > Saroyan, you sound just like the poetry-readers a hundred years ago talking > about free verse? Short answer: yes, it has and does bother me... particularly in this case because that wasn't quite what I was going for. When I am, I also consider that many people have slagged a lot of artists who actually were bad and whose reputations have never been rehabilitated or remarked upon and many branches of artistic creation that never turned out to be meaningful. I'm hoping you didn't read my immediate followup before posting this. I wasn't meaning to denigrate Saroyan, just the mindset wherein it is a poetic revelation to be stoned and type words repeatedly and the idea put forth in that anecdote where a single word evncing an emotion in a particular context is somehow the same as writing a poem. In the context Coolidge provides, the word leukemia has some resonance. I just disagree that it means "leukemia" would be an interesting poem. There are many experiences in which the context makes something otherwise uninteresting, even mundane, moving or inspirational or turn such things into triggers for events or conversations of great magnitude. But that doesn't make the half buried glass jar or the soap bubble or the shiny coin a poem. That's essentially my argument about a poem like JOE, which is interesting only in a very particular context (and not really as a poem, in my opinion) and part of why I think: lighght remains clever wordplay but not a particularly enervating poem despite your eloquent defense in various forums and my respect for your clearly authentic reaction to it. Sorry you're not taking up "organic"-- I guess idioformular gets at what it seems most people mean when they use the term though. c From chris.lott at gmail.com Wed Apr 23 21:32:03 2008 From: chris.lott at gmail.com (Chris Lott) Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2008 17:32:03 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] Aram Saroyan In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <9b1b9dab0804231832x36146607k6353fa1cd2b09f1@mail.gmail.com> On Wed, Apr 23, 2008 at 5:18 PM, wrote: > > > William Logan would have to write fifty times better than he does to live up > to the standards he holds others to. Mostly his stuff (to my ear) is kind of > light and pretentious. Not a terrific combination. Well, those are two separate issues aren't they? As I said, I don't know enough Logan poetry to have an opinion (and it wouldn't matter if I did), but I'm not going to hold him to any higher standard just because he does ... or maybe a better formulation is I don't expect less of others because they don't! c From chris.lott at gmail.com Wed Apr 23 21:32:52 2008 From: chris.lott at gmail.com (Chris Lott) Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2008 17:32:52 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] Aram Saroyan In-Reply-To: <035201c8a5a9$664bf850$4101a8c0@nowhereddc257a> References: <9b1b9dab0804231734x18bc138dye6486afe61dae9c5@mail.gmail.com> <480FED5D.6050705@nut-n-but.net> <035201c8a5a9$664bf850$4101a8c0@nowhereddc257a> Message-ID: <9b1b9dab0804231832g3f8ad517m5d7545c9bdf25014@mail.gmail.com> On Wed, Apr 23, 2008 at 5:20 PM, Robin Hamilton wrote: > > I'm surprised nobody's mentioned Coleridge in this thread yet -- wasn't > that where the "organic" business in art/lit started from? Coincidentally, the quote I lifted from the comments of Sillimans' blog *is* Coolidge. c From robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com Wed Apr 23 21:35:30 2008 From: robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com (Robin Hamilton) Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2008 02:35:30 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Aram Saroyan References: <480FEBF5.3040008@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <036301c8a5ab$7c159900$4101a8c0@nowhereddc257a> I guess I missed it, or didn't realize a URL had been provided. Anyway, thanks for the URL above, which I've gone to and let off steam at. --Bob I finally thought to look at it just after (masochistically) reading the Comments appended to one of the current Guardian articles, and being more and more convinced that they're there to demonstrate that, no matter how bad the writers the Guardian pays are, there are a whole lot of folks out there who are worse. It's not that *everything that is said is wrong (and on the whole, comments in technical sections can be worth reading) but simply that any information is drowned out by the noise level. Like listening to not just one but an infinite multitude of pub bores all talking simultaneously. At least in the KnottBlog, there was only one. But dear god, apparently you can't (just to pick one rant at random) write poetry if you ain't poor -- talk about faux Romanticism. When the term Concrete Poetry came up, I couldn't be bothered to parse what was being said, as there was no way of knowing from what *was said (or simply waved around like a flag) whether or not the writer knew what he was talking about. I suspect if I knew the Sayonara poems being referred to, I probably wouldn't like them, but nothing in the rant that I painfully endured to the end did anything but make me think that the enemy of my enemy might just possibly be my friend. I think the common element between some blogs (not Bob's for example, whom much as I disagree with is always interesting in his) and the Comments drivel which seems to attach itself to almost all Guardian articles, under their CiF policy, is sheer self-indulgence producing a sound and fury with the usual consequences. Robin -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From AlMaginnes at aol.com Wed Apr 23 21:36:26 2008 From: AlMaginnes at aol.com (AlMaginnes at aol.com) Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2008 21:36:26 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Aram Saroyan Message-ID: Not when you attack people in the nasty way that Logan does. If he has problems with someone's writing, well and good. We all have likes and dislikes. When you turn that dislike for someone's work into the snarky, nasty sort of attack Logan specializes in, it becomes something else. I hate to admit it, but at this point, Logan's criticism has probably poisoned the well for me as far as his work goes, but probably that's because I don't see much in the work anyway. **************Need a new ride? Check out the largest site for U.S. used car listings at AOL Autos. (http://autos.aol.com/used?NCID=aolcmp00300000002851) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com Wed Apr 23 21:38:51 2008 From: robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com (Robin Hamilton) Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2008 02:38:51 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Aram Saroyan References: <9b1b9dab0804231734x18bc138dye6486afe61dae9c5@mail.gmail.com><480FED5D.6050705@nut-n-but.net><035201c8a5a9$664bf850$4101a8c0@nowhereddc257a> <9b1b9dab0804231832g3f8ad517m5d7545c9bdf25014@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <037c01c8a5ab$f335a930$4101a8c0@nowhereddc257a> > On Wed, Apr 23, 2008 at 5:20 PM, Robin Hamilton > wrote: >> >> I'm surprised nobody's mentioned Coleridge in this thread yet -- wasn't >> that where the "organic" business in art/lit started from? > > Coincidentally, the quote I lifted from the comments of Sillimans' > blog *is* Coolidge. > > c Ooops! The Find mechanism of my IE search engine doesn't seem to do wit. Or puns. R From grahamd at ripon.edu Wed Apr 23 21:41:51 2008 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2008 20:41:51 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] We're all Bozos on this bus In-Reply-To: <9b1b9dab0804231830p654a3c24hb3e471e91084b28f@mail.gmail.com> References: <9b1b9dab0804231734x18bc138dye6486afe61dae9c5@mail.gmail.com> <480FED5D.6050705@nut-n-but.net> <9b1b9dab0804231830p654a3c24hb3e471e91084b28f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <200804240141.m3O1foI1004991@mail45c35.nsolutionszone.com> "But the fact that some geniuses were laughed at does not imply that all who are laughed at are geniuses. They laughed at Columbus, they laughed at Fulton, they laughed at the Wright brothers. But they also laughed at Bozo the Clown." --Carl Sagan ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.mac.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== On Apr 23, 2008, at 8:30 PM, Chris Lott wrote: >> Chris, doesn't it bother you at all that when you denigrate poets >> like >> Saroyan, you sound just like the poetry-readers a hundred years >> ago talking >> about free verse? > > Short answer: yes, it has and does bother me... particularly in this > case because that wasn't quite what I was going for. When I am, I also > consider that many people have slagged a lot of artists who actually > were bad and whose reputations have never been rehabilitated or > remarked upon and many branches of artistic creation that never turned > out to be meaningful. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Wed Apr 23 23:10:27 2008 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2008 22:10:27 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Aram Saroyan In-Reply-To: <9b1b9dab0804231742o6757655ag5a9cb28c0a1d3dfb@mail.gmail.com> References: <9b1b9dab0804231742o6757655ag5a9cb28c0a1d3dfb@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <480FFA23.3030606@nut-n-but.net> Chris Lott wrote: > That was actually unfair. The quote just made me laugh because it > evokes an attitude that I find-- well-- laughable. Many find me worse, > I'm sure. I wish I'd known I was writing poems when I was repeating > words while stoned not so many years ago! I'd be happier if I knew that Saroyan composed without pharmaceutical help, but I think all the best poets composed out of an altered consciousness. Those lucky are able to get into such a consciousness without marijuana or the like. I wonder how many of the poems Saroyan wrote while stoned he kept. I'll bet he edited himself while unstoned. Should he return the prize on the grounds that he did the equivalent of using steroids? As for "lighght," Chris, it may just be me (and a few others) who, as kids, found the fact that some letters are silent in words so exhilaratingly and profoundly wowwy that we found Saroyan's poem irresistibly appealing. (I was extremely taken with homonyms, too--sea/see probably the most.) Even if we overrate "lighght," though, it has to be admitted that it did something no other poem ever did--in a genre Saroyan practically invented, the one-word poem. I would claim that any poetry-lover who looks down on such poems is as ridiculous as a poetry-lover who would look down on epics. --Bob --Bob G. From Opus40-01 at opus40.org Wed Apr 23 22:36:50 2008 From: Opus40-01 at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2008 22:36:50 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Aram Saroyan In-Reply-To: <8CA73BF72BE9DD9-C38-2FB5@webmailbeta-m09.sysops.aol.com> References: <480FD75E.2040604@opus40.org> <8CA73BF72BE9DD9-C38-2FB5@webmailbeta-m09.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <480FF242.6060306@opus40.org> oh, that's different. Never mind..... jforjames at aol.com wrote: > John (the populist poet) not William (the pooh-pooher) Logan. > Finnegan > > > -----Original Message----- > From: TheOldMole > Sent: Wed, 23 Apr 2008 8:42 pm > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Aram Saroyan > > He's proud of voting for Logan? > > JforJames at aol.com wrote: > > > > Read a blistering attack on all the above here: > > > > http://billknott.typepad.com/billknott/2008/04/20/index.html > > > > > > > Bob, David Graham pointed to Knott's taking exception. > > Finnegan > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Plan your next roadtrip with MapQuest.com > : America's #1 > Mapping Site. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ The moral is this: in American verse, The better you are, the pay is worse. --Corey Ford From Opus40-01 at opus40.org Wed Apr 23 22:37:51 2008 From: Opus40-01 at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2008 22:37:51 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Aram Saroyan In-Reply-To: <9b1b9dab0804231817k708d9695v59dfdbe809ebe63a@mail.gmail.com> References: <480FD75E.2040604@opus40.org> <8CA73BF72BE9DD9-C38-2FB5@webmailbeta-m09.sysops.aol.com> <9b1b9dab0804231817k708d9695v59dfdbe809ebe63a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <480FF27F.1050108@opus40.org> Yes. And I kinda like his criticism. Chris Lott wrote: > On Wed, Apr 23, 2008 at 5:12 PM, wrote: >> John (the populist poet) not William (the pooh-pooher) Logan. > > i.e. the Logan that isn't alive now... > > I realize that William Logan is the critic everyone loves to hate, but > is his poetry that horrible? > > I've only read a few of his poems here and there... none made my > notebook of favorites, but I don't remember them with distaste. > > c > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ The moral is this: in American verse, The better you are, the pay is worse. --Corey Ford From jforjames at aol.com Wed Apr 23 22:49:36 2008 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2008 22:49:36 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Aram Saroyan In-Reply-To: <480FFA23.3030606@nut-n-but.net> References: <9b1b9dab0804231742o6757655ag5a9cb28c0a1d3dfb@mail.gmail.com> <480FFA23.3030606@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <8CA73CCF6808304-C38-33AB@webmailbeta-m09.sysops.aol.com> -----Original Message----- From: Bob Grumman Sent: Wed, 23 Apr 2008 11:10 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Aram Saroyan ? Even if we overrate "lighght," though, it has to be admitted that it did something no other poem ever did--in a genre Saroyan practically invented, the one-word poem. I would claim that any poetry-lover who looks down on such poems is as ridiculous as a poetry-lover who would look down on epics.?? -- Don't you think the one-word poem can be more easily exhausted than an epic??To twist Gertrude Stein's slam of Oakland, there is only so much there there after all.? Mostly what we get is a critical apparatus and superstructure that is built around the one-word poem (or phrase poem).? While many an?epic can be exhausting for other reasons, a good?epic is endlessly mined, and it seems that it will never give up all it aspects/secrets/passageways. I'd agree that "lighght"?is almost in a class by itself when it comes to very short or one-word poems. I do like?it a lot. But if I dwell on it too much, I find that I'm?damaging its essence.? Finnegan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From david.bircumshaw at ntlworld.com Thu Apr 24 03:09:49 2008 From: david.bircumshaw at ntlworld.com (David Bircumshaw) Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2008 08:09:49 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Aram Saroyan In-Reply-To: <480FFA23.3030606@nut-n-but.net> References: <9b1b9dab0804231742o6757655ag5a9cb28c0a1d3dfb@mail.gmail.com> <480FFA23.3030606@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <4810323D.7070805@ntlworld.com> I think that at least it's a sign of a certain health in the US poetry scene that Bill Knott's rant gets discussed: an equivalent complaint in the UK would simply be ignored. Not that I'm coming down on any sides in the particulars of Knott's ire - I simply don't know much about the poets concerned. 'lighght' has a kind of effect, it doesn't do to look too hard at it though, I'm not too sure about making a system out of it though. Perhaps if the argument gets too vexed the combatants ought after all to be told to 'hushsh' and be 'choirt'. Hey, is that a poem I see: After the Concert choirt (it has certain ambiguous suggestions of 'hurt' and 'dirt' as well you know) (wink) Best dave -- David Bircumshaw Website and A Chide's Alphabet http://homepage.ntlworld.com/david.bircumshaw/ The Animal Subsides http://www.arrowheadpress.co.uk/books/animal.html Leicester Poetry Society: http://www.poetryleicester.co.uk From chris.lott at gmail.com Thu Apr 24 03:17:28 2008 From: chris.lott at gmail.com (Chris Lott) Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2008 23:17:28 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] Aram Saroyan In-Reply-To: <480FFA23.3030606@nut-n-but.net> References: <9b1b9dab0804231742o6757655ag5a9cb28c0a1d3dfb@mail.gmail.com> <480FFA23.3030606@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <9b1b9dab0804240017g527b378bl8b8f7159547bf544@mail.gmail.com> On Wed, Apr 23, 2008 at 7:10 PM, Bob Grumman wrote: > > > > I'd be happier if I knew that Saroyan composed without pharmaceutical help, > but I think all the best poets composed out of an altered consciousness. > Those lucky are able to get into such a consciousness without marijuana or > the like. I wonder how many of the poems Saroyan wrote while stoned he > kept. I'll bet he edited himself while unstoned. You're mixing two different things up here. I was remarking on Coolidge's anecdote which is a good anecdote and which gives power, in that context, to the word "leukemia" but as far as making that word into a poem, exhibits just the kind of problem I have with that kind of time and contextually contingent art. Things can be poetic without being poems. Things can have power in a context of time, place and sequence but that doesn't mean they stand alone as interesting artifacts without those things. I have no idea if Saroyan wrote any of the poems in the book stoned, nor would it bother me if he did. > Should he return the prize on the grounds that he did the equivalent of > using steroids? Never said nor implied that. What I *am* saying is that if one has to get stoned in order to see something interesting in a piece, then that piece probably isn't very good. I know that my hand used to be very interesting when I was dropping acid... it's not particularly good art without it. > As for "lighght," Chris, it may just be me (and a few others) who, as kids, > found the fact that some letters are silent in words so exhilaratingly and > profoundly wowwy that we found Saroyan's poem irresistibly appealing. (I > was extremely taken with homonyms, too--sea/see probably the most.) Even if > we overrate "lighght," though, it has to be admitted that it did something > no other poem ever did--in a genre Saroyan practically invented, the > one-word poem. I would claim that any poetry-lover who looks down on such > poems is as ridiculous as a poetry-lover who would look down on epics. It's also an artifact of its time. Saroyan deserves credit for inventing a genre, but a genre it is and it just isn't possible for me to ignore all the wordplay since and see it the way you did then. Unfair, perhaps, but the way aesthetics seems to go. I don't disagree right up to your last sentence. For me, the kind of cleverness shown in "lighght" (and it is quite clever) has a limited and short-term appeal. It's a one-and-done, "look that's neat! Now I never need to see it again" kind of thing. Quite different from a good epic, which rewards anew in some way each time. c From chris.lott at gmail.com Thu Apr 24 03:20:32 2008 From: chris.lott at gmail.com (Chris Lott) Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2008 23:20:32 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] Aphorismo In-Reply-To: <7DB83E3C5FB64B14A04BE6F2A25B6A44@TerryPC> References: <8CA6DFA0B27D865-100-AE7@WEBMAIL-DC11.sysops.aol.com> <7DB83E3C5FB64B14A04BE6F2A25B6A44@TerryPC> Message-ID: <9b1b9dab0804240020k120f1f9l9ee9dfac851cc8e5@mail.gmail.com> On Mon, Apr 21, 2008 at 7:16 AM, Terry McLain wrote: > > The problem with aphorisms is the moment you realize just who else is saying > "How true." > A self-negating aphorism. Time for a Hofstader-ish book. c From chris.lott at gmail.com Thu Apr 24 03:28:12 2008 From: chris.lott at gmail.com (Chris Lott) Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2008 23:28:12 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] Aphorismo In-Reply-To: <8CA6DFA0B27D865-100-AE7@WEBMAIL-DC11.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CA6DFA0B27D865-100-AE7@WEBMAIL-DC11.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <9b1b9dab0804240028v11dd6465scd908f2f2d39ea51@mail.gmail.com> On Wed, Apr 16, 2008 at 8:57 AM, wrote: > > The aphorism which straddles the realms of poetry and philosophy and > proverbs, had a conference devoted to the genre... > > http://www.jamesgeary.com/blog/?p=149 That there is a conference dedicated to the aphorism is delightful, second only to the fact that people purposefully set out to write them. I've long been a collector of aphorisms... I never really considered the possibility that people would sit down and purposefully create them. That takes one kind of romance out of them but puts a whole different kind in its place. c From lsgrimes at stonegulch.com Thu Apr 24 06:21:29 2008 From: lsgrimes at stonegulch.com (Linda Sue Grimes) Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2008 05:21:29 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] We're all Bozos on this bus References: <9b1b9dab0804231734x18bc138dye6486afe61dae9c5@mail.gmail.com><480FED5D.6050705@nut-n-but.net><9b1b9dab0804231830p654a3c24hb3e471e91084b28f@mail.gmail.com> <200804240141.m3O1foI1004991@mail45c35.nsolutionszone.com> Message-ID: <002d01c8a5f4$f6da8b20$0201a8c0@LindaSue> Not a proper analogy--Bozo the Clown's job is to get laughs. Sagan should have identified someone whose attempt at innovation was not genius yet was laughed at. Bozo the Clown is actually a genius when he gets the laughs he is eliciting. lsg ----- Original Message ----- From: David Graham To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2008 8:41 PM Subject: [New-Poetry] We're all Bozos on this bus "But the fact that some geniuses were laughed at does not imply that all who are laughed at are geniuses. They laughed at Columbus, they laughed at Fulton, they laughed at the Wright brothers. But they also laughed at Bozo the Clown." --Carl Sagan ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.mac.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== On Apr 23, 2008, at 8:30 PM, Chris Lott wrote: Chris, doesn't it bother you at all that when you denigrate poets like Saroyan, you sound just like the poetry-readers a hundred years ago talking about free verse? Short answer: yes, it has and does bother me... particularly in this case because that wasn't quite what I was going for. When I am, I also consider that many people have slagged a lot of artists who actually were bad and whose reputations have never been rehabilitated or remarked upon and many branches of artistic creation that never turned out to be meaningful. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jeff.newberry at gmail.com Thu Apr 24 06:32:17 2008 From: jeff.newberry at gmail.com (Jeff Newberry) Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2008 06:32:17 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] We're all Bozos on this bus In-Reply-To: <002d01c8a5f4$f6da8b20$0201a8c0@LindaSue> References: <9b1b9dab0804231734x18bc138dye6486afe61dae9c5@mail.gmail.com> <480FED5D.6050705@nut-n-but.net> <9b1b9dab0804231830p654a3c24hb3e471e91084b28f@mail.gmail.com> <200804240141.m3O1foI1004991@mail45c35.nsolutionszone.com> <002d01c8a5f4$f6da8b20$0201a8c0@LindaSue> Message-ID: <731bb17a0804240332x567c86ftafbada504bc990c7@mail.gmail.com> I'd argue that David (& more than likely, Carl Sagan) are *more than aware of this fact*. Jeff Newberry On Thu, Apr 24, 2008 at 6:21 AM, Linda Sue Grimes wrote: > Not a proper analogy--Bozo the Clown's job is to get laughs. Sagan > should have identified someone whose attempt at innovation was not genius > yet was laughed at. Bozo the Clown is actually a genius when he gets the > laughs he is eliciting. > > lsg > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* David Graham > *To:* NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views > *Sent:* Wednesday, April 23, 2008 8:41 PM > *Subject:* [New-Poetry] We're all Bozos on this bus > > "But the fact that some geniuses were laughed at does not imply that all > who are laughed at are geniuses. They laughed at Columbus, they laughed at > Fulton, they laughed at the Wright brothers. But they also laughed at Bozo > the Clown." > > --Carl Sagan > > ======================================== > David Graham > grahamd at ripon.edu > > Home Page: > http://web.mac.com/drjazz > > Poetry Library: > http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html > ========================================== > > > > > On Apr 23, 2008, at 8:30 PM, Chris Lott wrote: > > Chris, doesn't it bother you at all that when you denigrate poets like > > Saroyan, you sound just like the poetry-readers a hundred years ago > talking > > about free verse? > > > Short answer: yes, it has and does bother me... particularly in this > > case because that wasn't quite what I was going for. When I am, I also > > consider that many people have slagged a lot of artists who actually > > were bad and whose reputations have never been rehabilitated or > > remarked upon and many branches of artistic creation that never turned > > out to be meaningful. > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- "Why are you wearing that stupid *man* suit?" http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd at ripon.edu Thu Apr 24 10:41:02 2008 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2008 09:41:02 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] We're all Bozos on this bus In-Reply-To: <002d01c8a5f4$f6da8b20$0201a8c0@LindaSue> References: <9b1b9dab0804231734x18bc138dye6486afe61dae9c5@mail.gmail.com><480FED5D.6050705@nut-n-but.net><9b1b9dab0804231830p654a3c24hb3e471e91084b28f@mail.gmail.com> <200804240141.m3O1foI1004991@mail45c35.nsolutionszone.com> <002d01c8a5f4$f6da8b20$0201a8c0@LindaSue> Message-ID: <200804241441.m3OEf0eI025937@mail69c35.nsolutionszone.com> "All metaphor breaks down somewhere. That is the beauty of it. " --Robert Frost, "Education By Poetry." ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.mac.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== On Apr 24, 2008, at 5:21 AM, Linda Sue Grimes wrote: > Not a proper analogy--Bozo the Clown's job is to get laughs. Sagan > should have identified someone whose attempt at innovation was not > genius yet was laughed at. Bozo the Clown is actually a genius > when he gets the laughs he is eliciting. > > lsg > ----- Original Message ----- > From: David Graham > To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views > Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2008 8:41 PM > Subject: [New-Poetry] We're all Bozos on this bus > > "But the fact that some geniuses were laughed at does not imply > that all who are laughed at are geniuses. They laughed at Columbus, > they laughed at Fulton, they laughed at the Wright brothers. But > they also laughed at Bozo the Clown." > > --Carl Sagan > > ======================================== > David Graham > grahamd at ripon.edu > > Home Page: > http://web.mac.com/drjazz > > Poetry Library: > http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html > ========================================== > > > > > On Apr 23, 2008, at 8:30 PM, Chris Lott wrote: >>> Chris, doesn't it bother you at all that when you denigrate >>> poets like >>> Saroyan, you sound just like the poetry-readers a hundred years >>> ago talking >>> about free verse? >> >> Short answer: yes, it has and does bother me... particularly in this >> case because that wasn't quite what I was going for. When I am, I >> also >> consider that many people have slagged a lot of artists who actually >> were bad and whose reputations have never been rehabilitated or >> remarked upon and many branches of artistic creation that never >> turned >> out to be meaningful. > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jeff.newberry at gmail.com Thu Apr 24 10:43:58 2008 From: jeff.newberry at gmail.com (Jeff Newberry) Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2008 10:43:58 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] We're all Bozos on this bus In-Reply-To: <200804241441.m3OEf0eI025937@mail69c35.nsolutionszone.com> References: <9b1b9dab0804231734x18bc138dye6486afe61dae9c5@mail.gmail.com> <480FED5D.6050705@nut-n-but.net> <9b1b9dab0804231830p654a3c24hb3e471e91084b28f@mail.gmail.com> <200804240141.m3O1foI1004991@mail45c35.nsolutionszone.com> <002d01c8a5f4$f6da8b20$0201a8c0@LindaSue> <200804241441.m3OEf0eI025937@mail69c35.nsolutionszone.com> Message-ID: <731bb17a0804240743u14ee7977xdf9904f00f5fc085@mail.gmail.com> Nice. Thanks for posting. Jeff Newberry On Thu, Apr 24, 2008 at 10:41 AM, David Graham wrote: > "All metaphor breaks down somewhere. That is the beauty of it. " > --Robert Frost, "Education By Poetry." > > > ======================================== > David Graham > grahamd at ripon.edu > > Home Page: > http://web.mac.com/drjazz > > Poetry Library: > http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html > ========================================== > > > > > On Apr 24, 2008, at 5:21 AM, Linda Sue Grimes wrote: > > Not a proper analogy--Bozo the Clown's job is to get laughs. Sagan should > have identified someone whose attempt at innovation was not genius yet was > laughed at. Bozo the Clown is actually a genius when he gets the laughs he > is eliciting. > > lsg > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* David Graham > *To:* NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views > *Sent:* Wednesday, April 23, 2008 8:41 PM > *Subject:* [New-Poetry] We're all Bozos on this bus > > "But the fact that some geniuses were laughed at does not imply that all > who are laughed at are geniuses. They laughed at Columbus, they laughed at > Fulton, they laughed at the Wright brothers. But they also laughed at Bozo > the Clown." > > --Carl Sagan > > ======================================== > David Graham > grahamd at ripon.edu > > Home Page: > http://web.mac.com/drjazz > > Poetry Library: > http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html > ========================================== > > > > > On Apr 23, 2008, at 8:30 PM, Chris Lott wrote: > > Chris, doesn't it bother you at all that when you denigrate poets like > Saroyan, you sound just like the poetry-readers a hundred years ago talking > about free verse? > > > Short answer: yes, it has and does bother me... particularly in this > case because that wasn't quite what I was going for. When I am, I also > consider that many people have slagged a lot of artists who actually > were bad and whose reputations have never been rehabilitated or > remarked upon and many branches of artistic creation that never turned > out to be meaningful. > > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- "Why are you wearing that stupid *man* suit?" http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From skip at louisiana.edu Thu Apr 24 11:06:34 2008 From: skip at louisiana.edu (Skip Fox) Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2008 10:06:34 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Aram Saroyan In-Reply-To: <480FEBF5.3040008@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <005801c8a61c$cf8ae2e0$3b874682@win.louisiana.edu> So much gush about gush. That's my drip on it. -----Original Message----- From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Bob Grumman Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2008 9:10 PM To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Aram Saroyan JforJames at aol.com wrote: Read a blistering attack on all the above here: http://billknott.typepad.com/billknott/2008/04/20/index.html Bob, David Graham pointed to Knott's taking exception. Finnegan I guess I missed it, or didn't realize a URL had been provided. Anyway, thanks for the URL above, which I've gone to and let off steam at. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From amyhappens at yahoo.com Thu Apr 24 11:17:57 2008 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king) Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2008 08:17:57 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] National Poetry Month x 10 -- Tomorrow Dark! Message-ID: <915201.13196.qm@web83301.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> NATIONAL POETRY MONTH x 10! WHY: Eating, growing, and celebrating locally tofind the world in a grain of Brooklyn andeternity in an hour or two! WHEN: Friday, April 25th @ 7 p.m. ?Sharp! WHERE: Stain Bar in Williamsburg,Brooklyn WHO: BANIAS~~ BERRIGAN ~~ BOZICEVIC ~~ BRYANT ~~ DICKOW ~~ HOY ~~ KOCOT ~~ SMITH ~~ STARKWEATHER ~~ WILLIAMSON ARI BANIAS grew up in California, Texas, and Illinois. He now lives in Brooklyn, NY and teaches undergraduate creative writing and literature at Hunter College. His poems are forthcoming in The Cincinnati Review, Literary Imagination, and FIELD, and have recently appeared in Mid-American Review (as a feature), Arts & Letters, and RealPoetik. EDMUND BERRIGAN is the author of Glad Stone Children (Farfalla Press, 2008) and is co-editor with Anselm Berrigan and Alice Notley of a forthcoming Selected Poems of Ted Berrigan (University of California). ANA BOZICEVIC moved to NYC from Croatia in 1997. She's the author of chapbooks Document (Octopus Books, 2007) and Morning News (Kitchen Press, 2006). Look for her recent work in Denver Quarterly, Hotel Amerika, absent, The New York Quarterly, Bat City Review, MiPOesias, Octopus Magazine and The Portable Boog Reader 2: An Anthology of NYC Poetry. Ana coedits RealPoetik. TISA BRYANT is the author of Tzimmes (A+Bend Press, 2000),which collages concerns of breast cancer, Barbados genealogy research, aPassover seder and a film by Yvonne Rainer, and her first book, UnexplainedPresence (Leon Works, 2007), is a collection of original, hybrid essays thatremix narratives from Eurocentric film, literature and visual arts and zoom inon the black presences operating within them. She currently lives in Brooklyn,NY. ALEXANDER DICKOW grew up in Moscow, Idaho, traveled to France, got married to a French woman, studies French literature at Rutgers, and writes poems. His work has appeared in both Yankee and Hexagonal journals including MiPO, RealPoetik, Sitaudis, Il Particolare, Hapax, can we have our ball back? and others. A full-length bilingual collection, _Caramboles_, will be published by the Parisian press Argol Editions in October 2008. Alex currently lives in bucolic central New Jersey. DAN HOY lives in Brooklyn and is an editor for SOFT TARGETS. His poetry chapbook, Outtakes, was published by Lame House Press in 2007. NOELLE KOCOT is the author of 3 books of poems, 4 and TheRaving Fortune, out from Four Way Books in 2001 and 2004, respectively, andPoem for the End of Time, out from Wave Books in 2006, of which the NY TimesBook Review deemed the long title poem, "extraordinary." She has won awards from The NationalEndowment for the Arts, The Fund For Poetry, The Academy of American Poets andThe American Poetry Review, among others. She lives in Brooklyn, where she wasborn and raised, and teaches for a living. Her fourth book, Sunny Wednesday, will be published by Wave Books inspring, 2009. JESSICA SMITH is the editor of Outside Voices Press, whichpublishes Foursquare magazine. She wrotea book called Organic Furniture Cellar. She maintains a blog that incites bothhate mail and proposals. She recentlymoved to Brooklyn and is looking for a job. SAMPSON STARKWEATHER is a small African village patrolled by dream-fed lions. They sway in the grasses when you move. His handwriting, which has been featured in several medical journals, strong-armed him into a life of asemic writing. He is the author of The Book of Sky, a wordless text published by anyone. DUSTIN WILLIAMSON is the author of Heavy Panda (Goodbye Better), Gorilla Dust (Open24Hours Press), and Exhausted Grunts (Cannibal Books). He publishes Rust Buckle Books and is the current curator of the Zinc Talk Reading Series. ~~~ STAIN BAR 766 Grand Street Brooklyn , NY 11211 (L train to Grand Street Stop, walk 1 block west) 718/387-7840 "The thing about performance, even if it's only an illusion,is that it is a celebration of the fact that we do contain within ourselvesinfinite possibilities." -- Sydney Smith Amy King will host -----> http://amyking.wordpress.com/2008/04/13/national-poetry-month-x-10/ -- http://www.amyking.org ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Thu Apr 24 12:06:06 2008 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2008 12:06:06 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Kleinzahler reviewed Message-ID: <8CA743C3C81D031-D24-2D59@webmailbeta-m07.sysops.aol.com> http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/24/books/24garn.html By DWIGHT GARNER Published: April 24, 2008 A couple of years ago, writing in Poetry magazine, August Kleinzahler lighted a string of firecrackers under Garrison Keillor and his ?Writer?s Almanac? segments on National Public Radio. SLEEPING IT OFF IN RAPID CITY Poems, New and Selected By August Kleinzahler 234 pages. Farrar, Straus & Giroux. $26. Mr. Kleinzahler criticized the ?anecdotal, wistful? poems Mr. Keillor often chooses to read ? poems he summarized as ?middle-aged creative writing instructor catching whiff of mortality in the countryside.? Mr. Kleinzahler wasn?t very nice about Mr. Keillor?s ?treacly baritone? either. Ultimately Mr. Kleinzahler boiled his case against Mr. Keillor down to these three-and-a-half sentences: ?Multivitamins are good for you. Exercise, fresh air, and sex are good for you. Fruit and vegetables are good for you. Poetry is not.? It makes a certain kind of sense, then, that Mr. Kleinzahler?s career-spanning new book of poems, ?Sleeping It Off in Rapid City,? features on its cover a nighttime photograph of a White Castle hamburger franchise. Like White Castle?s pint-size hamburgers, Mr. Kleinzahler?s poems are of uncertain if not dubious nutritional value -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd at ripon.edu Thu Apr 24 12:27:34 2008 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2008 11:27:34 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Kleinzahler reviewed In-Reply-To: <8CA743C3C81D031-D24-2D59@webmailbeta-m07.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CA743C3C81D031-D24-2D59@webmailbeta-m07.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <200804241627.m3OGRaNX013986@mail5c35.nsolutionszone.com> Does anyone happen to know how many new poems this book includes? Kleinzahler's on my short list of Must Read Everything poets, but I'm always a little irked when a new-and-selected doesn't include at least half a book's worth of new stuff. . . . ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.mac.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== On Apr 24, 2008, at 11:06 AM, jforjames at aol.com wrote: > http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/24/books/24garn.html > > By DWIGHT GARNER > Published: April 24, 2008 > > A couple of years ago, writing in Poetry magazine, August > Kleinzahler lighted a string of firecrackers under Garrison Keillor > and his ?Writer?s Almanac? segments on National Public Radio. > > SLEEPING IT OFF IN RAPID CITY > Poems, New and Selected > By August Kleinzahler > 234 pages. Farrar, Straus & Giroux. $26. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Rsgwynn1 at cs.com Thu Apr 24 12:30:22 2008 From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com (Rsgwynn1 at cs.com) Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2008 12:30:22 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Kleinzahler reviewed Message-ID: Triolet on Two Lines by August Kleinzahler If butter can't cure what ails you, No cure is there to be found. The capsules that Medco mails you (If butter can't cure what ails you) You might as well spill on the ground. For that gut-stabbing pain that impales you If butter can't cure what ails you, No cure is there to be found. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From duemer at gmail.com Thu Apr 24 12:31:59 2008 From: duemer at gmail.com (Joseph Duemer) Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2008 12:31:59 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Aram Saroyan In-Reply-To: <005801c8a61c$cf8ae2e0$3b874682@win.louisiana.edu> References: <480FEBF5.3040008@nut-n-but.net> <005801c8a61c$cf8ae2e0$3b874682@win.louisiana.edu> Message-ID: *"I'm surprised nobody's mentioned Coleridge in this thread yet -- wasn't that where the "organic" business in art/lit started from?" * My mention of "German & British Romantics" might be said to include Coleridge. jd -- Joseph Duemer Professor of Humanities Clarkson University Weblog: sharpsand.net -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com Thu Apr 24 13:04:12 2008 From: robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com (Robin Hamilton) Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2008 18:04:12 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Aram Saroyan References: <480FEBF5.3040008@nut-n-but.net><005801c8a61c$cf8ae2e0$3b874682@win.louisiana.edu> Message-ID: <00d801c8a62d$3ac5cd80$4101a8c0@nowhereddc257a> From: Joseph Duemer << "I'm surprised nobody's mentioned Coleridge in this thread yet -- wasn't that where the "organic" business in art/lit started from?" My mention of "German & British Romantics" might be said to include Coleridge. jd >> There's a long and as is usual useful entry in Raymond Williams' _Keywords_. The most pertinent passage reads: "The distinction [between ORGANIC and MECHANICAL] was made in the Romantic movement, probably first in German, among the Nature Philosophers. Coleridge distinguished between ORGANIC and INORGANIC bodies or systems; in the ORGANIC 'the whole is everything and the parts are nothing' while in the INORGANIC 'the whole is nothing more than a collection of the individual parts'." Robin From shin02143 at aol.com Thu Apr 24 13:12:33 2008 From: shin02143 at aol.com (shin02143 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2008 13:12:33 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Kleinzahler reviewed In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8CA74458545DA86-D88-3D1@webmail-da10.sysops.aol.com> I like to write triolets too. They were much in favor in the 19th century. This one is very attractive. I like the way dactyls and iambs are interwoven here, and the humor is very good too. Do you have any bio info on August Kleinzahler? Richard -----Original Message----- From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Thu, 24 Apr 2008 12:30 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Re: Kleinzahler reviewed Triolet on Two Lines by August Kleinzahler If butter can't cure what ails you, No cure is there to be found. The capsules that Medco mails you (If butter can't cure what ails you) You might as well spill on the ground. For that gut-stabbing pain that impales you If butter can't cure what ails you, No cure is there to be found. _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Rsgwynn1 at cs.com Thu Apr 24 13:14:09 2008 From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com (Rsgwynn1 at cs.com) Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2008 13:14:09 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Kleinzahler reviewed Message-ID: In a message dated 4/24/2008 12:13:21 PM Central Daylight Time, shin02143 at aol.com writes: > > > > > I like to write triolets too. They were much in favor in the 19th century. > This one is very attractive. I like the way dactyls and iambs are interwoven > here, and the humor is very good too. Do you have any bio info on August > Kleinzahler? > Plenty on poetry.org. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From skip at louisiana.edu Thu Apr 24 13:18:59 2008 From: skip at louisiana.edu (Skip Fox) Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2008 12:18:59 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Aram Saroyan In-Reply-To: <00d801c8a62d$3ac5cd80$4101a8c0@nowhereddc257a> Message-ID: <007b01c8a62f$4ed67390$3b874682@win.louisiana.edu> Organic in whole and parts. Lovely. A lively site for thought (esp. compared to disputes between poets). -----Original Message----- From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Robin Hamilton Sent: Thursday, April 24, 2008 12:04 PM To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Aram Saroyan From: Joseph Duemer << "I'm surprised nobody's mentioned Coleridge in this thread yet -- wasn't that where the "organic" business in art/lit started from?" My mention of "German & British Romantics" might be said to include Coleridge. jd >> There's a long and as is usual useful entry in Raymond Williams' _Keywords_. The most pertinent passage reads: "The distinction [between ORGANIC and MECHANICAL] was made in the Romantic movement, probably first in German, among the Nature Philosophers. Coleridge distinguished between ORGANIC and INORGANIC bodies or systems; in the ORGANIC 'the whole is everything and the parts are nothing' while in the INORGANIC 'the whole is nothing more than a collection of the individual parts'." Robin _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com Thu Apr 24 13:50:48 2008 From: robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com (Robin Hamilton) Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2008 18:50:48 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Aram Saroyan References: <007b01c8a62f$4ed67390$3b874682@win.louisiana.edu> Message-ID: <010001c8a633$bacdc6d0$4101a8c0@nowhereddc257a> From: "Skip Fox" > Organic in whole and parts. Lovely. A lively site for thought (esp. > compared > to disputes between poets). The quotation would seem to be from Coleridge's _Table-Talk_: http://www.gutenberg.org/dirs/etext05/7tabc10.txt ***** _December_ 18. 1831. A STATE.--PERSONS AND THINGS.--HISTORY. The difference between an inorganic and an organic body lies in this:--In the first--a sheaf of corn--the whole is nothing more than a collection of the individual parts or phenomena. In the second--a man--the whole is the effect of, or results from, the parts; it--the whole--is every thing, and the parts are nothing. ***** Robin From duemer at gmail.com Thu Apr 24 14:01:56 2008 From: duemer at gmail.com (Joseph Duemer) Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2008 14:01:56 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Aram Saroyan In-Reply-To: <010001c8a633$bacdc6d0$4101a8c0@nowhereddc257a> References: <007b01c8a62f$4ed67390$3b874682@win.louisiana.edu> <010001c8a633$bacdc6d0$4101a8c0@nowhereddc257a> Message-ID: I think I must have first come to understand this from reading Williams' entry in Keywords years ago. It remains a very useful little book that I keep near at hand. jd On Thu, Apr 24, 2008 at 1:50 PM, Robin Hamilton < robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com> wrote: > From: "Skip Fox" > > Organic in whole and parts. Lovely. A lively site for thought (esp. >> compared >> to disputes between poets). >> > > The quotation would seem to be from Coleridge's _Table-Talk_: > > http://www.gutenberg.org/dirs/etext05/7tabc10.txt > > ***** > > _December_ 18. 1831. > > A STATE.--PERSONS AND THINGS.--HISTORY. > > The difference between an inorganic and an organic body lies in this:--In > the first--a sheaf of corn--the whole is nothing more than a collection of > the individual parts or phenomena. In the second--a man--the whole is the > effect of, or results from, the parts; it--the whole--is every thing, and > the parts are nothing. > > ***** > > > Robin > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Joseph Duemer Professor of Humanities Clarkson University Weblog: sharpsand.net -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com Thu Apr 24 14:10:33 2008 From: robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com (Robin Hamilton) Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2008 19:10:33 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Aram Saroyan References: <007b01c8a62f$4ed67390$3b874682@win.louisiana.edu><010001c8a633$bacdc6d0$4101a8c0@nowhereddc257a> Message-ID: <013001c8a636$7d4492f0$4101a8c0@nowhereddc257a> From: Joseph Duemer << I think I must have first come to understand this from reading Williams' entry in Keywords years ago. It remains a very useful little book that I keep near at hand. jd >> I think (though it's some considerable time since I've read it) that M.H.Abrahms has a long discussion of it in _The Mirror and the Lamp_. I don't have a copy at hand to check. I agree entirely about the usefulness of _Keywords_ -- I particularly like the entry on "Literature", and the way generally all the usages Williams gives are neatly date-stamped. Robin _December_ 18. 1831. A STATE.--PERSONS AND THINGS.--HISTORY. The difference between an inorganic and an organic body lies in this:--In the first--a sheaf of corn--the whole is nothing more than a collection of the individual parts or phenomena. In the second--a man--the whole is the effect of, or results from, the parts; it--the whole--is every thing, and the parts are nothing. ***** From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Thu Apr 24 17:54:16 2008 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2008 16:54:16 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] We're all Bozos on this bus In-Reply-To: <200804240141.m3O1foI1004991@mail45c35.nsolutionszone.com> References: <9b1b9dab0804231734x18bc138dye6486afe61dae9c5@mail.gmail.com><480FED5D.6050705@nut-n-b ut.net><9b1b9dab0804231830p654a3c24hb3e471e91084b28f@mail.gmail.com> <200804240141.m3O1foI1004991@mail45c35.nsolutionszone.com> Message-ID: <48110188.6070901@nut-n-but.net> Those who condemn something because it is new are always wrong, even when what they condemn turns out to be of little or no value. That's not directed at Chris, who has clearly reflected on minimalist poetry and said more than a few intelligent things about it. As for Knotts's blog entry, it may be the stupidest critique of a poet I've ever read--because to such an extent based on an ad hominem, and not even a good one. Question: has any school of poetry ever been attacked that the consensus of informed poetry-readers eventually judged worthless? I genuinely don't know of any, though there have been schools that receded in importance--but were very influential in their time, and left a number of poem in the canon. --Bob G. David Graham wrote: > "But the fact that some geniuses were laughed at does not imply that > all who are laughed at are geniuses. They laughed at Columbus, they > laughed at Fulton, they laughed at the Wright brothers. But they also > laughed at Bozo the Clown." > > --Carl Sagan > > ======================================== > David Graham > grahamd at ripon.edu > > Home Page: > http://web.mac.com/drjazz > > Poetry Library: > http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html > ========================================== > > > > > On Apr 23, 2008, at 8:30 PM, Chris Lott wrote: >>> >>> Chris, doesn't it bother you at all that when you denigrate poets like >>> >>> Saroyan, you sound just like the poetry-readers a hundred years ago >>> talking >>> >>> about free verse? >>> >> >> Short answer: yes, it has and does bother me... particularly in this >> >> case because that wasn't quite what I was going for. When I am, I also >> >> consider that many people have slagged a lot of artists who actually >> >> were bad and whose reputations have never been rehabilitated or >> >> remarked upon and many branches of artistic creation that never turned >> >> out to be meaningful. >> > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Thu Apr 24 18:38:48 2008 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2008 17:38:48 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Aram Saroyan In-Reply-To: <9b1b9dab0804240017g527b378bl8b8f7159547bf544@mail.gmail.com> References: <9b1b9dab0804231742o6757655ag5a9cb28c0a1d3dfb@mail.gmail.com><480FFA23.3030606@nut-n-b ut.net> <9b1b9dab0804240017g527b378bl8b8f7159547bf544@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <48110BF8.7010601@nut-n-but.net> Chris Lott wrote: > On Wed, Apr 23, 2008 at 7:10 PM, Bob Grumman wrote: > >> I'd be happier if I knew that Saroyan composed without pharmaceutical help, >> but I think all the best poets composed out of an altered consciousness. >> Those lucky are able to get into such a consciousness without marijuana or >> the like. I wonder how many of the poems Saroyan wrote while stoned he >> kept. I'll bet he edited himself while unstoned. >> > > You're mixing two different things up here. I was remarking on > Coolidge's anecdote which is a good anecdote and which gives power, in > that context, to the word "leukemia" but as far as making that word > into a poem, exhibits just the kind of problem I have with that kind > of time and contextually contingent art. Things can be poetic without > being poems. Things can have power in a context of time, place and > sequence but that doesn't mean they stand alone as interesting > artifacts without those things. > > I have no idea if Saroyan wrote any of the poems in the book stoned, > nor would it bother me if he did. > "leukemia" is a complete dud, as far as I'm concerned. > >> Should he return the prize on the grounds that he did the equivalent of >> using steroids? >> > > Never said nor implied that. Didn't say you did. I was just musing aloud. > What I *am* saying is that if one has to > get stoned in order to see something interesting in a piece, then that > piece probably isn't very good. I know that my hand used to be very > interesting when I was dropping acid... it's not particularly good art > without it. > I was saying you DO have to get stoned or the equivalent (for those who are lucky, without the use of drugs) to find what ultimately counts the most in poetry, unique combinations of words and images. > As for "lighght," Chris, it may just be me (and a few others) who, as kids, > found the fact that some letters are silent in words so exhilaratingly and > profoundly wowwy that we found Saroyan's poem irresistibly appealing. (I > was extremely taken with homonyms, too--sea/see probably the most.) Even if > we overrate "lighght," though, it has to be admitted that it did something > no other poem ever did--in a genre Saroyan practically invented, the > one-word poem. I would claim that any poetry-lover who looks down on such > poems is as ridiculous as a poetry-lover who would look down on epics. > > > It's also an artifact of its time. Saroyan deserves credit for > inventing a genre, but a genre it is and it just isn't possible for me > to ignore all the wordplay since and see it the way you did then. > Unfair, perhaps, but the way aesthetics seems to go. > > Everything is an artifact of its time, but Keats worked for me when I was young, and I see no reason why Saroyan should not work similarly for young people coming to poetry who have the kind of receptivity for Saroyan that I had for him and Keats. And others. > I don't disagree right up to your last sentence. For me, the kind of > cleverness shown in "lighght" (and it is quite clever) has a limited > and short-term appeal. It's a one-and-done, "look that's neat! Now I > never need to see it again" kind of thing. > > > For some people. Many don't even find it neat. But haiku lovers can get much more than a single, "wow, that's neat," out of it, just as they do out of the best haiku (and "lighght" is certainly a full-scale haiku in all important respects). Like all art, though, it is not permanently beautiful: I no longer get anything out of it, or out of any of Keats's odes. Except implicitly, when I engage new poems that have in one way or another evolved from what Keats and/or Saroyan did. > Quite different from a good epic, which rewards anew in some way each time. > > Which I just disagreed with. In fact, I've never read an apic that didn't bore me /before/ I'd engaged it all the way through even once. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Thu Apr 24 19:53:06 2008 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2008 18:53:06 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Aram Saroyan In-Reply-To: <8CA73CCF6808304-C38-33AB@webmailbeta-m09.sysops.aol.com> References: <9b1b9dab0804231742o6757655ag5a9cb28c0a1d3dfb@mail.gmail.com><480FFA23.3030606@nut-n-but.net> <8CA73CCF6808304-C38-33AB@webmailbeta-m09.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <48111D62.8060308@nut-n-but.net> > > Even if we overrate "lighght," though, it has to be admitted that it > did something no other poem ever did--in a genre Saroyan practically > invented, the one-word poem. I would claim that any poetry-lover who > looks down on such poems is as ridiculous as a poetry-lover who would > look down on epics. > > -- > Don't you think the one-word poem can be more easily exhausted than an > epic? To twist Gertrude Stein's slam of Oakland, there is only so much > there there after all. Mostly what we get is a critical apparatus and > superstructure that is built around the one-word poem (or phrase > poem). While many an epic can be exhausting for other reasons, a > good epic is endlessly mined, and it seems that it will never give up > all it aspects/secrets/passageways. > > I'd agree that "lighght" is almost in a class by itself when it comes > to very short or one-word poems. I do like it a lot. But if I dwell on > it too much, I find that I'm damaging its essence. > Finnegan > I was only making the point, quickly, that length shouldn't matter in the judgement of poetry. I tend to be with Poe about epic poems. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From duemer at gmail.com Thu Apr 24 20:41:38 2008 From: duemer at gmail.com (Joseph Duemer) Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2008 20:41:38 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] We're all Bozos on this bus In-Reply-To: <48110188.6070901@nut-n-but.net> References: <9b1b9dab0804231734x18bc138dye6486afe61dae9c5@mail.gmail.com> <9b1b9dab0804231830p654a3c24hb3e471e91084b28f@mail.gmail.com> <200804240141.m3O1foI1004991@mail45c35.nsolutionszone.com> <48110188.6070901@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: Knott's motives may be suspect, his judgment flawed, his rhetoric over the top, but he has written fine poems. Who knows what we have to believe in order to do the work we do? jd On Thu, Apr 24, 2008 at 5:54 PM, Bob Grumman wrote: > Those who condemn something because it is new are always wrong, even when > what they condemn turns out to be of little or no value. That's not > directed at Chris, who has clearly reflected on minimalist poetry and said > more than a few intelligent things about it. As for Knotts's blog entry, it > may be the stupidest critique of a poet I've ever read--because to such an > extent based on an ad hominem, and not even a good one. > > Question: has any school of poetry ever been attacked that the consensus of > informed poetry-readers eventually judged worthless? I genuinely don't know > of any, though there have been schools that receded in importance--but were > very influential in their time, and left a number of poem in the canon. > > --Bob G. > > > > David Graham wrote: > > "But the fact that some geniuses were laughed at does not imply that all > who are laughed at are geniuses. They laughed at Columbus, they laughed at > Fulton, they laughed at the Wright brothers. But they also laughed at Bozo > the Clown." > > --Carl Sagan > > ======================================== > David Graham > grahamd at ripon.edu > > Home Page: > http://web.mac.com/drjazz > > Poetry Library: > http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html > ========================================== > > > > > On Apr 23, 2008, at 8:30 PM, Chris Lott wrote: > > Chris, doesn't it bother you at all that when you denigrate poets like > > Saroyan, you sound just like the poetry-readers a hundred years ago talking > > about free verse? > > > Short answer: yes, it has and does bother me... particularly in this > > case because that wasn't quite what I was going for. When I am, I also > > consider that many people have slagged a lot of artists who actually > > were bad and whose reputations have never been rehabilitated or > > remarked upon and many branches of artistic creation that never turned > > out to be meaningful. > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing listNew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.eduhttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Joseph Duemer Professor of Humanities Clarkson University Weblog: sharpsand.net -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From acgold01 at louisville.edu Thu Apr 24 21:40:54 2008 From: acgold01 at louisville.edu (Alan C Golding) Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2008 21:40:54 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] CFP Louisville Conference Message-ID: <4810FE48.AC48.0004.0@gwise.louisville.edu> 2009 Call for Papers - Louisville Conference on Literature and Culture since 1900 The thirty-seventh annual Louisville Conference on Literature and Culture since 1900 will be held at the University of Louisville, February 19-2, 2009. Critical papers may be submitted on any topic that addresses literary works published since 1900, and/or their relationship with other arts and disciplines (film, journalism, opera, music, pop culture, painting, architecture, law, etc). - Work by creative writers is also welcome. Visit our website for complete submission guidelines www.modernlanguages.louisville.edu/conference Group Societies are welcome and panel organizers will find the submission guidelines on our website. Please forward to any colleagues or friends who may be interested in the conference. Deadline for submission is September 15, 2008 (postmarked). Inquiries: dlday at louisville.edu This is usually a pretty good poetry conference. And Jim Finnegan can vouch for the charms of Louisville in February. Alan Golding From chris.lott at gmail.com Fri Apr 25 03:08:48 2008 From: chris.lott at gmail.com (Chris Lott) Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2008 23:08:48 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] Aram Saroyan In-Reply-To: <48111D62.8060308@nut-n-but.net> References: <9b1b9dab0804231742o6757655ag5a9cb28c0a1d3dfb@mail.gmail.com> <480FFA23.3030606@nut-n-but.net> <8CA73CCF6808304-C38-33AB@webmailbeta-m09.sysops.aol.com> <48111D62.8060308@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <9b1b9dab0804250008s582fd6afjea1d773e56e9271a@mail.gmail.com> On Thu, Apr 24, 2008 at 3:53 PM, Bob Grumman wrote: > I was only making the point, quickly, that length shouldn't matter in the > judgement of poetry. I tend to be with Poe about epic poems. I'm a slow learner and sometimes things you say, Bob, only start to make sense to me quite late in the game. I agree that length is largely irrelevant, though I see in practice lower and upper bounds. I probably shouldn't compare things to epic poems anyway, since the reality of my reading habits is such that I have a really hard time with poems of more than a page or two *at most*. I prefer short poems and have a strong affection for short prose poems, haiku (taking into account how screwed up the idea of the haiku in English can be... speaking of which, there is a really fine piece on haiku in the guise of a review of "popular haiku" books in the latest issue of _Pleiades_), aphorisms, etc. When I see a poem that extends past a few pages I instinctively shy away... yet another bad habit I try to work on. c From alexdickow9 at yahoo.com Sat Apr 26 12:00:23 2008 From: alexdickow9 at yahoo.com (Alexander Dickow) Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2008 09:00:23 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] saroyan, epic, dead movements In-Reply-To: <200804251600.m3PG04cO010369@wiz.cath.vt.edu> Message-ID: <493255.96600.qm@web35508.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Bob Grumman wrote: "Question: has any school of poetry ever been attacked that the consensus of informed poetry-readers eventually judged worthless? I genuinely don't know of any, though there have been schools that receded in importance--but were very influential in their time, and left a number of poem in the canon." Hm, I'd say there are many -- but we don't hear about them unless we dig quite a bit. In France, Rene Ghil's theory of Instrumentalism, once judged very important, has gone the way of the dinosaur since at least the mid-twenties or so. There are literally dozens of more or less forgotten (and potentially recuperable --? "worthless" is a judgment always susceptible of revision...) figures of the European avant-garde. Anyone here heard of Canudo and his Cerebrism? (other than you, Bob) How about the Integralists? In England, the Spasmodics? What about fashionable genres or techniques that fall out of fashion, and are never revived? Such as the 17th-century practice of bouts-rimes (but don't anyone claim it's basically an oulipian practice, that's an anachronism). Perhaps more interesting are the instances of "canonical" figures whose techniques have essentially no descendants, no inheritors, no further development. Or poets whose "major" works have become "minor" and/or vice-versa (cf. Ronsard, or more problematic figures like St. Amant, Donne...). There's plenty of uncanonicity in canonical works, and a fair amount of unrecuperable (i.e., "worthless") stuff in them, too, in my (not so humble?) opinion. Oh, incidentally: I *love* epic. You guys and gals should all go learn French and read Agrippa d'Aubigne's Tragiques, it's one of the most extraordinarily visceral works in verse I've ever encountered. It's basically anti-Catholic, homophobic, bloodthirsty etc. invective, almost entirely objectionable on an ideological level -- but it still makes my heart beat faster (ah, the seductions of beauty...). I also love the Song of Roland, naturally -- and the Middle Ages in general. Lesser known Chansons de Geste like the Charroi de Nimes (the Chariot of Nimes?) are often quite funny -- not at all the sort of epic you're probably used to. The narrative techniques of St-Amant's baroque "epic", Moses Saved (Moise sauve) is fascinating, and the combat scenes I find genuinely action-packed. Especially for Bob G. because of its compact nature, I recommend the contemporary hybrid "epic" by Monique Wittig, Les Guerilleres (can't remember the English title), a translation of which is available somewhere on UbuWeb. Once again, lots of lesser known treasures remain to be discovered by most readers (French, English or Americain), treasures I prefer a thousand times to the relative tedium of Virgil and Homer. Amicalement, Alex www.alexdickow.net/blog/ les mots! ah quel d?sert ? la fin merveilleux. -- Henri Droguet From grahamd at ripon.edu Sat Apr 26 12:26:34 2008 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2008 11:26:34 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] saroyan, epic, dead movements In-Reply-To: <493255.96600.qm@web35508.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <493255.96600.qm@web35508.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Just a brief chime to echo some of what Alex says below. T. S. Eliot was wrong about many things, I think, but his notion of the necessity of the historical sense in poets always hit the bullseye for me. Temperamentally one could probably divide poets into those who focus more on continuities with the past, and those who are most interested in charting change. In the long run, of course, it all begins to look like continuity, doesn't it? Radical old Wordsworth is now a synonym for fogeydom. . . . As for Saroyan, what I've seen doesn't tend to ring my bell much, but he deserves an award as much as many more belaureled ones, I'd venture. Ultra-talker that I seem to be these days, I tend to go for his more expansive items, when he stretches out to 6 or 8 or even 15 words. . . . ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.mac.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== On Apr 26, 2008, at 11:00 AM, Alexander Dickow wrote: > Bob Grumman wrote: "Question: has any school of poetry > ever been attacked that the > consensus > of informed poetry-readers eventually judged > worthless? I genuinely > don't know of any, though there have been schools that > receded in > importance--but were very influential in their time, > and left a number > of poem in the canon." > > Hm, I'd say there are many -- but we don't hear about > them unless we dig quite a bit. In France, Rene Ghil's > theory of Instrumentalism, once judged very important, > has gone the way of the dinosaur since at least the > mid-twenties or so. There are literally dozens of more > or less forgotten (and potentially recuperable --? > "worthless" is a judgment always susceptible of > revision...) figures of the European avant-garde. > Anyone here heard of Canudo and his Cerebrism? (other > than you, Bob) How about the Integralists? In England, > the Spasmodics? > What about fashionable genres or techniques that fall > out of fashion, and are never revived? Such as the > 17th-century practice of bouts-rimes (but don't anyone > claim it's basically an oulipian practice, that's an > anachronism). > Perhaps more interesting are the instances of > "canonical" figures whose techniques have essentially > no descendants, no inheritors, no further development. > Or poets whose "major" works have become "minor" > and/or vice-versa (cf. Ronsard, or more problematic > figures like St. Amant, Donne...). There's plenty of > uncanonicity in canonical works, and a fair amount of > unrecuperable (i.e., "worthless") stuff in them, too, > in my (not so humble?) opinion. > Oh, incidentally: I *love* epic. You guys and gals > should all go learn French and read Agrippa > d'Aubigne's Tragiques, it's one of the most > extraordinarily visceral works in verse I've ever > encountered. It's basically anti-Catholic, homophobic, > bloodthirsty etc. invective, almost entirely > objectionable on an ideological level -- but it still > makes my heart beat faster (ah, the seductions of > beauty...). I also love the Song of Roland, naturally > -- and the Middle Ages in general. Lesser known > Chansons de Geste like the Charroi de Nimes (the > Chariot of Nimes?) are often quite funny -- not at all > the sort of epic you're probably used to. The > narrative techniques of St-Amant's baroque "epic", > Moses Saved (Moise sauve) is fascinating, and the > combat scenes I find genuinely action-packed. > Especially for Bob G. because of its compact nature, I > recommend the contemporary hybrid "epic" by Monique > Wittig, Les Guerilleres (can't remember the English > title), a translation of which is available somewhere > on UbuWeb. > Once again, lots of lesser known treasures remain to > be discovered by most readers (French, English or > Americain), treasures I prefer a thousand times to the > relative tedium of Virgil and Homer. > Amicalement, > Alex > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cervantes.james at gmail.com Sat Apr 26 13:06:50 2008 From: cervantes.james at gmail.com (James Cervantes) Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2008 12:06:50 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] fun & games at new-poetry Message-ID: <648208b60804261006w162c915eo257081dbb491e2ca@mail.gmail.com> Maybe. I offered the beginning below on another list hoping to get a taker or takers to continue the dialogue. Obviously, some knowledge of a specialized vocabulary is called for. I think it could be fun, so . . . Tad? Anyone? Domestic Argument at the Soirre Moe: Ma, non troppocana, tubacolosis ostinato! Ma: pianossissy Moe! pianosissy Moe! pianosissy Moe! Moe: Old FORTE! Ma: -- Jim ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~ Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org ~ http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning ~ http://www.fieralingue.it/documenti/mr_bondo.pdf ~ http://www.poetserv.org/jvc/home/index.html ~ http://www.flickr.com/photos/12364573 at N08/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sat Apr 26 14:40:15 2008 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2008 13:40:15 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] saroyan, epic, dead movements In-Reply-To: <493255.96600.qm@web35508.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <493255.96600.qm@web35508.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4813770F.2090603@nut-n-but.net> Alexander Dickow wrote: > Bob Grumman wrote: "Question: has any school of poetry > ever been attacked that the > consensus > of informed poetry-readers eventually judged > worthless? I should have said, "school of poetry written in English"--not because that's the only kind that counts, but because that's the only kind I can read. Ideally, I would have defined "school of poetry," too. Some of your examples don't seem schools of poetry, to me, Alex. I'm thinking fully-developed schools of poetry, not an individual or two. My own school of mathematical poetry, for instance, isn't really yet quite a school, although one anthology of mathematical poetry in English has been published, and several poets are seriously involved with it. > I genuinely > don't know of any, though there have been schools that > receded in > importance--but were very influential in their time, > and left a number > of poem in the canon." > > Hm, I'd say there are many -- but we don't hear about > them unless we dig quite a bit. In France, Rene Ghil's > theory of Instrumentalism, once judged very important, > has gone the way of the dinosaur since at least the > mid-twenties or so. Were there poets who considered themselves his disciples? If so, did their poems leave no trace? I keep thinking of symbolism, which is supposed to be dead, and imagism, which I've seen written off recently as long-dead, without ever having gone anywhere--although I consider it THE major and most important school of twentieth-century poetry in English, and hugely influential. In any event, it sounds interesting. I don't recall ever reading anything about it. > There are literally dozens of more > or less forgotten (and potentially recuperable --? > "worthless" is a judgment always susceptible of > revision...) figures of the European avant-garde. > Anyone here heard of Canudo and his Cerebrism? (other > than you, Bob) How about the Integralists? In England, > the Spasmodics? > I've never heard of any of those. But they sound like critical terms that may have bitten the dust while poetry linked to them continued, perhaps with different critical terms attached. > What about fashionable genres or techniques that fall > out of fashion, and are never revived? Such as the > 17th-century practice of bouts-rimes (but don't anyone > claim it's basically an oulipian practice, that's an > anachronism). > Genres may be schools. I'd have to know more about a given genre to decide whether it was a school of poetry that went completely out of fashion without having contributed to later poetry. I would guess that specific very minor techniques have come and gone, but never general techniques--various kinds of meter, for example, but never the technique of meter. > Perhaps more interesting are the instances of > "canonical" figures whose techniques have essentially > no descendants, no inheritors, no further development. > I'd love a list of canonical figures (and my idea of canonical can be objectively determined--poets widely represented in anthologies for more than a century after their births) who were as described above. E. E. Cummings is laughably described as such by the ignorant. > Or poets whose "major" works have become "minor" > and/or vice-versa (cf. Ronsard, or more problematic > figures like St. Amant, Donne...). There's plenty of > uncanonicity in canonical works, and a fair amount of > unrecuperable (i.e., "worthless") stuff in them, too, > in my (not so humble?) opinion. > Oh, incidentally: I *love* epic. You guys and gals > should all go learn French and read Agrippa > d'Aubigne's Tragiques, it's one of the most > extraordinarily visceral works in verse I've ever > encountered. It's basically anti-Catholic, homophobic, > bloodthirsty etc. invective, almost entirely > objectionable on an ideological level -- but it still > makes my heart beat faster (ah, the seductions of > beauty...). I also love the Song of Roland, naturally > -- and the Middle Ages in general. Lesser known > Chansons de Geste like the Charroi de Nimes (the > Chariot of Nimes?) are often quite funny -- not at all > the sort of epic you're probably used to. The > narrative techniques of St-Amant's baroque "epic", > Moses Saved (Moise sauve) is fascinating, and the > combat scenes I find genuinely action-packed. > Especially for Bob G. because of its compact nature, I > recommend the contemporary hybrid "epic" by Monique > Wittig, Les Guerilleres (can't remember the English > title), a translation of which is available somewhere > on UbuWeb. > Once again, lots of lesser known treasures remain to > be discovered by most readers (French, English or > Americain), treasures I prefer a thousand times to the > relative tedium of Virgil and Homer. > Amicalement, > Alex > You make me wish I could stop time for twenty years or so and spend it entirely following up on your recommendations, Alex. all best, Bob From Opus40-01 at opus40.org Sat Apr 26 14:04:50 2008 From: Opus40-01 at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2008 14:04:50 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] fun & games at new-poetry In-Reply-To: <648208b60804261006w162c915eo257081dbb491e2ca@mail.gmail.com> References: <648208b60804261006w162c915eo257081dbb491e2ca@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <48136EC2.2090504@opus40.org> Wait a second...I'm up for anything, as always...but are there any rules? Or am I just to hop on and improvise? James Cervantes wrote: > Maybe. I offered the beginning below on another list hoping to get a > taker or takers to continue the dialogue. Obviously, some knowledge > of a specialized vocabulary is called for. I think it could be fun, > so . . . Tad? Anyone? > > Domestic Argument at the Soirre > > Moe: Ma, non troppocana, tubacolosis ostinato! > > > Ma: pianossissy Moe! pianosissy Moe! pianosissy Moe! > > > Moe: Old FORTE! > > > Ma: > > > > -- Jim > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > ~ Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org > ~ http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning > ~ http://www.fieralingue.it/documenti/mr_bondo.pdf > ~ http://www.poetserv.org/jvc/home/index.html > ~ http://www.flickr.com/photos/12364573 at N08/ > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ The moral is this: in American verse, The better you are, the pay is worse. --Corey Ford From cervantes.james at gmail.com Sat Apr 26 16:17:10 2008 From: cervantes.james at gmail.com (James Cervantes) Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2008 15:17:10 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] fun & games at new-poetry In-Reply-To: <48136EC2.2090504@opus40.org> References: <648208b60804261006w162c915eo257081dbb491e2ca@mail.gmail.com> <48136EC2.2090504@opus40.org> Message-ID: <648208b60804261317r3b97ce86pf13ede83fd282c7e@mail.gmail.com> The rules, the method etc. are inherent in the first three lines of dialogue. Ma might ask Moe, for example, about the do re mi! - Jim On Sat, Apr 26, 2008 at 1:04 PM, TheOldMole wrote: > Wait a second...I'm up for anything, as always...but are there any rules? > Or am I just to hop on and improvise? > > James Cervantes wrote: > > > Maybe. I offered the beginning below on another list hoping to get a > > taker or takers to continue the dialogue. Obviously, some knowledge of a > > specialized vocabulary is called for. I think it could be fun, so . . . > > Tad? Anyone? > > > > Domestic Argument at the Soirre > > > > Moe: Ma, non troppocana, tubacolosis ostinato! > > > > > > Ma: pianossissy Moe! pianosissy Moe! pianosissy Moe! > > > > > > Moe: Old FORTE! > > > > > > Ma: > > > > > > > > -- Jim > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~ > > ~ Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org > > ~ http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning > > ~ http://www.fieralingue.it/documenti/mr_bondo.pdf > > ~ http://www.poetserv.org/jvc/home/index.html > > ~ http://www.flickr.com/photos/12364573 at N08/ > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > ------------ > > > > ______________________________ _________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > -- > Tad Richards > http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ > http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ > > The moral is this: in American verse, > The better you are, the pay is worse. > --Corey Ford > > ______________________________ _________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Opus40-01 at opus40.org Sat Apr 26 16:29:59 2008 From: Opus40-01 at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2008 16:29:59 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] fun & games at new-poetry In-Reply-To: <648208b60804261317r3b97ce86pf13ede83fd282c7e@mail.gmail.com> References: <648208b60804261006w162c915eo257081dbb491e2ca@mail.gmail.com> <48136EC2.2090504@opus40.org> <648208b60804261317r3b97ce86pf13ede83fd282c7e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <481390C7.7020009@opus40.org> That's what i was afraid of. So I'm going to have to make a total fool of myself, misunderstand the rules, and get it wrong. James Cervantes wrote: > The rules, the method etc. are inherent in the first three lines of > dialogue. Ma might ask Moe, for example, about the do re mi! > > - Jim > > On Sat, Apr 26, 2008 at 1:04 PM, TheOldMole > wrote: > > Wait a second...I'm up for anything, as always...but are there any > rules? Or am I just to hop on and improvise? > > James Cervantes wrote: > > Maybe. I offered the beginning below on another list hoping > to get a taker or takers to continue the dialogue. Obviously, > some knowledge of a specialized vocabulary is called for. I > think it could be fun, so . . . Tad? Anyone? > > Domestic Argument at the Soirre > > Moe: Ma, non troppocana, tubacolosis ostinato! > > > Ma: pianossissy Moe! pianosissy Moe! pianosissy Moe! > > > Moe: Old FORTE! > > > Ma: De jure -- con brioche? > > > > -- Jim > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~ > ~ Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org > ~ http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning > > ~ http://www.fieralingue.it/documenti/mr_bondo.pdf > > ~ http://www.poetserv.org/jvc/home/index.html > > ~ http://www.flickr.com/photos/12364573 at N08/ > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > ______________________________ _________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > -- > Tad Richards > http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ > > http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ > > The moral is this: in American verse, > The better you are, the pay is worse. > --Corey Ford > > ______________________________ _________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ The moral is this: in American verse, The better you are, the pay is worse. --Corey Ford From cervantes.james at gmail.com Sat Apr 26 16:39:49 2008 From: cervantes.james at gmail.com (James Cervantes) Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2008 15:39:49 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] fun & games at new-poetry In-Reply-To: <481390C7.7020009@opus40.org> References: <648208b60804261006w162c915eo257081dbb491e2ca@mail.gmail.com> <48136EC2.2090504@opus40.org> <648208b60804261317r3b97ce86pf13ede83fd282c7e@mail.gmail.com> <481390C7.7020009@opus40.org> Message-ID: <648208b60804261339i6dfa8cc3n927831a4eac4b133@mail.gmail.com> Nope. The tune and the key are there. Just improvise. There's no "wrong." - Hot Fingers On Sat, Apr 26, 2008 at 3:29 PM, TheOldMole wrote: > That's what i was afraid of. So I'm going to have to make a total fool of > myself, misunderstand the rules, and get it wrong. > > James Cervantes wrote: > > > The rules, the method etc. are inherent in the first three lines of > > dialogue. Ma might ask Moe, for example, about the do re mi! > > > > - Jim > > > > On Sat, Apr 26, 2008 at 1:04 PM, TheOldMole > Opus40-01 at opus40.org>> wrote: > > > > Wait a second...I'm up for anything, as always...but are there any > > rules? Or am I just to hop on and improvise? > > > > James Cervantes wrote: > > > > Maybe. I offered the beginning below on another list hoping > > to get a taker or takers to continue the dialogue. Obviously, > > some knowledge of a specialized vocabulary is called for. I > > think it could be fun, so . . . Tad? Anyone? > > > > Domestic Argument at the Soirre > > > > Moe: Ma, non troppocana, tubacolosis ostinato! > > > > > > Ma: pianossissy Moe! pianosissy Moe! pianosissy Moe! > > > > > > Moe: Old FORTE! > > > > > > Ma: De jure -- con brioche? > > > > > > > > -- Jim > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~ > > ~ Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org > > ~ http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning > > > > ~ http://www.fieralingue.it/documenti/mr_bondo.pdf > > > > ~ http://www.poetserv.org/jvc/home/index.html > > > > ~ http://www.flickr.com/photos/12364573 at N08/ > > > > > > ----------------------------- ------------------------------ > > ------------- > > > > ______________________________ _________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > > > > -- Tad Richards > > http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ > > > > http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ > > > > The moral is this: in American verse, > > The better you are, the pay is worse. > > --Corey Ford > > > > ______________________________ _________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > ------------ > > > > ______________________________ _________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > -- > Tad Richards > http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ > http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ > > The moral is this: in American verse, > The better you are, the pay is worse. > --Corey Ford > > ______________________________ _________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Opus40-01 at opus40.org Sat Apr 26 16:49:05 2008 From: Opus40-01 at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2008 16:49:05 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] fun & games at new-poetry In-Reply-To: <648208b60804261339i6dfa8cc3n927831a4eac4b133@mail.gmail.com> References: <648208b60804261006w162c915eo257081dbb491e2ca@mail.gmail.com> <48136EC2.2090504@opus40.org> <648208b60804261317r3b97ce86pf13ede83fd282c7e@mail.gmail.com> <481390C7.7020009@opus40.org> <648208b60804261339i6dfa8cc3n927831a4eac4b133@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <48139541.6080909@opus40.org> So how was what I did? James Cervantes wrote: > Nope. The tune and the key are there. Just improvise. There's no > "wrong." > > - Hot Fingers > > On Sat, Apr 26, 2008 at 3:29 PM, TheOldMole > wrote: > > That's what i was afraid of. So I'm going to have to make a total > fool of myself, misunderstand the rules, and get it wrong. > > James Cervantes wrote: > > The rules, the method etc. are inherent in the first three > lines of dialogue. Ma might ask Moe, for example, about the > do re mi! > > - Jim > > On Sat, Apr 26, 2008 at 1:04 PM, TheOldMole > > >> > wrote: > > Wait a second...I'm up for anything, as always...but are > there any > rules? Or am I just to hop on and improvise? > > James Cervantes wrote: > > Maybe. I offered the beginning below on another list > hoping > to get a taker or takers to continue the dialogue. > Obviously, > some knowledge of a specialized vocabulary is called > for. I > think it could be fun, so . . . Tad? Anyone? > > Domestic Argument at the Soirre > > Moe: Ma, non troppocana, tubacolosis ostinato! > > > Ma: pianossissy Moe! pianosissy Moe! pianosissy Moe! > > > Moe: Old FORTE! > > > Ma: De jure -- con brioche? > > > > > -- Jim > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~ > ~ Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org > ~ > http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning > > > > > ~ http://www.fieralingue.it/documenti/mr_bondo.pdf > > > > ~ http://www.poetserv.org/jvc/home/index.html > > > > ~ http://www.flickr.com/photos/12364573 at N08/ > > > > > ----------------------------- > ------------------------------------------- > > ______________________________ _________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > > > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > > -- Tad Richards > http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ > > > > http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ > > The moral is this: in American verse, > The better you are, the pay is worse. > --Corey Ford > > ______________________________ _________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > > > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > ______________________________ _________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > -- > Tad Richards > http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ > > http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ > > The moral is this: in American verse, > The better you are, the pay is worse. > --Corey Ford > > ______________________________ _________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ The moral is this: in American verse, The better you are, the pay is worse. --Corey Ford From elemenope_productions at hotmail.com Sun Apr 27 01:21:30 2008 From: elemenope_productions at hotmail.com (R Dillon) Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2008 05:21:30 +0000 Subject: [New-Poetry] Aram Saroyan Sells Blue Sky Message-ID: Aram Saroyan had a program. A colleague, as well as an Obamaesque egomaniac (Saying nothing and saying it especially well in a cagey way.), he made his entrances and exits at the Grolier Bookshop in the '73-'74 epoch. Gordon, George Burroughs (Orson Bean's father), Judge Alinsky (who compelled Gordon to erect a last will one afternoon which I witnessed legally), Ken Irby, Geoffrey Movius, Achilles Fang, Bruce Comjean, Bob Creeley, smoking Vantage cigarettes, (Patty Smith and Bockris/Wylie's early publisher) and I were conferring one fine noon when Saroyan entered. He had hired a skywriter airplane to contrail his poetry over the Harvard/Yale football game which was being played at that moment. Aram, black haired, alabaster skin, black eyed, talked with his arms. (As many of you know, he is the scion of that famous Dallas department store [N/M] which sells mink slippers, as well as having had a world famous author as his father. He studied macrobiotics, as I had, with Michio Kushi. Those were lite and thin days. I went on to dine at the John Birch Restaurant, Cardello's Cafeteria, where each Cardello had their own kiosk, food specialty, and cash register. Aram stuck with brown rice and hiziki seaweed at the Seventh Inn cattycorner to the Ritz Hotel downtown, and even named his little girls, "Strawberry, " and, "Cream." He had a very quiet streak but could get snarky if disappointed. Anyway.) Aram explained that life was like television. It had different channels. "Right now, " he said, "over a channel that I turned on at the stadium, I am writing the word, "SKY," in the sky over the upturned heads of 100,000 of our friends." He paused and took a long pregnant look from eye to eye around the room. "See it yourselves, up there in the Cambridge blue by the Charles River. SKY. Curleycued in white cloud writing. And now comes the best part. It is dissolving before our very eyes." He announced that he was changing the station and exited into Plympton Street. His central aesthetic principle: "For poetry to be made new, the slate must be wiped clean. Totally. At the outset, before the writing is begun." Another time he stole a very important one word poem from me, and he must give it back. ----------------------- R. Dillon _________________________________________________________________ In a rush? Get real-time answers with Windows Live Messenger. http://www.windowslive.com/messenger/overview.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_Refresh_realtime_042008 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tsmclain at gmail.com Sun Apr 27 01:52:05 2008 From: tsmclain at gmail.com (ts mclain) Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2008 01:52:05 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Aram Saroyan Sells Blue Sky In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <9ded96600804262252q3ba8507cpe9a73a11c8125f9c@mail.gmail.com> "He had a very quiet streak but could get snarky if disappointed." On the Meyers-Briggs typology chart--this places him where? On Sun, Apr 27, 2008 at 1:21 AM, R Dillon wrote: > Aram Saroyan had a program. > > A colleague, as well as an Obamaesque egomaniac (Saying nothing and saying > it especially well in a cagey way.), he made his entrances and exits at the > Grolier Bookshop in the '73-'74 epoch. Gordon, George Burroughs (Orson > Bean's father), Judge Alinsky > (who compelled Gordon to erect a last will one afternoon which I witnessed > legally), Ken Irby, Geoffrey Movius, Achilles Fang, Bruce Comjean, Bob > Creeley, smoking Vantage cigarettes, (Patty Smith and Bockris/Wylie's early > publisher) and I were conferring one fine noon when Saroyan entered. > > He had hired a skywriter airplane to contrail his poetry over the > Harvard/Yale football game which was being played at that moment. > > Aram, black haired, alabaster skin, black eyed, talked with his arms. > > (As many of you know, he is the scion of that famous Dallas department > store [N/M] which sells mink slippers, as well as having had a world famous > author as his father. He studied macrobiotics, as I had, with Michio > Kushi. Those were lite and thin days. I went on to dine at the John Birch > Restaurant, Cardello's Cafeteria, where each Cardello had their own kiosk, > food specialty, and cash register. Aram stuck with brown rice and hiziki > seaweed at the Seventh Inn cattycorner to the Ritz Hotel downtown, and even > named his little girls, "Strawberry, " and, "Cream." He had a very quiet > streak but could get snarky if disappointed. Anyway.) > > Aram explained that life was like television. It had different channels. > "Right now, " he said, "over a channel that I turned on at the stadium, I am > writing the word, "SKY," in the sky over the upturned heads of 100,000 of > our friends." He paused and took a long pregnant look from eye to eye > around the room. "See it yourselves, up there in the Cambridge blue by the > Charles River. SKY. Curleycued in white cloud writing. And now comes the > best part. It is dissolving before our very eyes." He announced that he > was changing the station and exited into Plympton Street. > > His central aesthetic principle: "For poetry to be made new, the slate > must be wiped clean. Totally. At the outset, before the writing is begun." > > Another time he stole a very important one word poem from me, and he must > give it back. > > ----------------------- > > R. Dillon > > ------------------------------ > In a rush? Get real-time answers with Windows Live Messenger. > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From david.bircumshaw at ntlworld.com Sun Apr 27 02:37:05 2008 From: david.bircumshaw at ntlworld.com (David Bircumshaw) Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2008 07:37:05 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] saroyan, epic, dead movements In-Reply-To: <4813770F.2090603@nut-n-but.net> References: <493255.96600.qm@web35508.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <4813770F.2090603@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <48141F11.4070406@ntlworld.com> > In England, the Spasmodics? (Alex) > I've never heard of any of those. But they sound like critical terms > that may have bitten the dust while poetry linked to them continued, > perhaps with different critical terms attached. (Bob) Bob, the dear old Spasmodics bit the literary dust along with their poetry and deservedly. My admiration to Alexander for recalling them. Best Dave -- David Bircumshaw Website and A Chide's Alphabet http://homepage.ntlworld.com/david.bircumshaw/ The Animal Subsides http://www.arrowheadpress.co.uk/books/animal.html Leicester Poetry Society: http://www.poetryleicester.co.uk From david.bircumshaw at ntlworld.com Sun Apr 27 02:52:39 2008 From: david.bircumshaw at ntlworld.com (David Bircumshaw) Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2008 07:52:39 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Aram Saroyan Sells Blue Sky In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <481422B7.4010703@ntlworld.com> > Another time he stole a very important one word poem from me, and he > must give it back. The swine! It's the rich wot gets the gravy, and the poor wot lose their names. Best Dave -- David Bircumshaw Website and A Chide's Alphabet http://homepage.ntlworld.com/david.bircumshaw/ The Animal Subsides http://www.arrowheadpress.co.uk/books/animal.html Leicester Poetry Society: http://www.poetryleicester.co.uk From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sun Apr 27 06:58:44 2008 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2008 05:58:44 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] saroyan, epic, dead movements In-Reply-To: <48141F11.4070406@ntlworld.com> References: <493255.96600.qm@web35508.mail.mud.yahoo.com><4813770F.2090603@nut-n-but.net> <48141F11.4070406@ntlworld.com> Message-ID: <48145C64.2060103@nut-n-but.net> > Bob, the dear old Spasmodics bit the literary dust along with their > poetry and deservedly. My admiration to Alexander for recalling them. > > Best > > Dave How many of them were there, and what did they do, as poets, Dave? --Bob From anny.ballardini at tin.it Sun Apr 27 09:40:39 2008 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2008 15:40:39 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] reporters abroad In-Reply-To: <48145C64.2060103@nut-n-but.net> References: <493255.96600.qm@web35508.mail.mud.yahoo.com><4813770F.2090603@nut-n-but.net><48141F11.4070406@ntlworld.com> <48145C64.2060103@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: http://graphics8.nytimes.com/packages/audio/world/27backstory-Bearak.mp3 Barry Bearak out of jail speaks of what happened. _______________________ on a much lighter note: ... back in Italy, at the customs in Innsbruck, Austria, they made me pay 62 Euros for two boxes of Camels I had bought in Philly... well visible in the transparent plastic bag they had given me. Funny nobody told me anything in Frankfurt, Germany - the guy there even commented: "how many cigarettes." The miserable fattish whitish guy in Innsbruck waited for me to fill in the form for not receiving my suitcase at the baggage claim (which will be delivered to me in about a couple of hours, they just called me). I scared the guts out of him when he got serious and I gave him my journalist card and told him I would write this story on the newspaper, at that point no fine, only the price of the cigarettes! And printed receipt of the money I had to give him. He thought I was the unknowing American showing up in Europe with no knowledge of anything in my pony tails and stoned as hell after a night spent in those tiny seats over the ocean. Be careful when you come over. From duemer at gmail.com Sun Apr 27 10:27:41 2008 From: duemer at gmail.com (Joseph Duemer) Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2008 10:27:41 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] saroyan, epic, dead movements In-Reply-To: <48145C64.2060103@nut-n-but.net> References: <493255.96600.qm@web35508.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <4813770F.2090603@nut-n-but.net> <48141F11.4070406@ntlworld.com> <48145C64.2060103@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: England, the Spasmodics? Didn't they come just after the Sex Pistols? jd On Sun, Apr 27, 2008 at 6:58 AM, Bob Grumman wrote: > > Bob, the dear old Spasmodics bit the literary dust along with their > > poetry and deservedly. My admiration to Alexander for recalling them. > > > > Best > > > > Dave > > > How many of them were there, and what did they do, as poets, Dave? > > --Bob > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Joseph Duemer Professor of Humanities Clarkson University Weblog: sharpsand.net -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From alexdickow9 at yahoo.com Sun Apr 27 14:02:38 2008 From: alexdickow9 at yahoo.com (Alexander Dickow) Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2008 11:02:38 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] schools and such In-Reply-To: <200804271600.m3RG04cO009827@wiz.cath.vt.edu> Message-ID: <10603.43572.qm@web35501.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Thanks, Dave. I don't really know that much about them; I learned of them through an acquaintance (and an interesting poet), Macgregor Card, who's sort of a "fan". I read a few things that I thought were very intriguing -- but then, I love very idiosyncratic poetry. "Spasmodics" was indeed first invented by critics, yes, to brand (I think) a fair number of poets -- rather than a few isolated individuals. Try wikipedia? Dunno. In any event, I still firmly believe there are once "influential" "schools" of poetry that would fit your definition, Bob, who have been utterly "forgotten" (I don't think Imagism and Symbolism quite qualify: you're right that they were hugely influential, and they have suffered from critical neglect and relative discredit, but I think most critics -- at least in France! -- would very much agree that they were instrumental). Ghil didn't have any disciples, because his system is so complicated he's the only one who could really use it. He's usually considered a bad epigone of Mallarme. A few poets said he was important to their work -- Duhamel, Romains of Unanimism (there's another "school") -- but generally not for long. I hope you'll have a chance to read one of two of those recommendations, Bob! But yes, so many bks, etc. Amicalement, Alex > In England, the Spasmodics? (Alex) > I've never heard of any of those. But they sound like critical terms > that may have bitten the dust while poetry linked to them continued, > perhaps with different critical terms attached. (Bob) Bob, the dear old Spasmodics bit the literary dust along with their poetry and deservedly. My admiration to Alexander for recalling them. Best Dave www.alexdickow.net/blog/ les mots! ah quel d?sert ? la fin merveilleux. -- Henri Droguet From Rsgwynn1 at cs.com Sun Apr 27 14:17:41 2008 From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com (Rsgwynn1 at cs.com) Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2008 14:17:41 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] schools and such Message-ID: In a message dated 4/27/2008 1:02:55 PM Central Daylight Time, alexdickow9 at yahoo.com writes: > > Bob, the dear old Spasmodics bit the literary dust > along with their > poetry and deservedly. My admiration to Alexander for > recalling them. > > Best > > Dave > Mrs. Browning was sometimes linked to the Spasmodics. I prize my copy of Bailey's Festus, though I must admit I've never delved very deeply. I expect Sordello was probably influenced as well. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at tin.it Sun Apr 27 14:44:50 2008 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2008 20:44:50 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fw: About Poetry: Special Delivery Poem Message-ID: <865DBD99D78C4EAEB40CF357424D3933@AnnyPC> PoetryI am digging down here now... and found Graham's beautiful poem! ----- Original Message ----- From: Bob Holman & Margery Snyder - About.com Poetry Guide To: anny.ballardini at TIN.IT Sent: Sunday, April 20, 2008 2:16 PM Subject: About Poetry: Special Delivery Poem Poetry In the Spotlight | More Topics | from Bob Holman & Margery Snyder David Graham contributed today's poem to the About Poetry library when we published his memoir about Richard Eberhart in 2005, and we think it repays rereading now. Enjoy! In the Spotlight "The Writing Life" by David Graham I said the moon and the moon said nothing. I said trumpet muted by memory and no one, not even a crow, rose above that, though I could go no lower. I was about to say water long desired when the sidewalks darkened with the bloom of rain, aspens shivering in that welcome wind. I said who knows a thing about tomorrow's sun and no one contradicted me, even though I was sure no one was listening. I said the gladsome sigh of bedsheets, and yes, I actually said gladsome, but I also said car without muffler, I said glass after glass of water, I said the crawl of a ceiling bug, and for what? And to whom? I said even this, and then carefully chose whether or not to say passagework, brick town, chickadee, pudding, just as I chose which past to believe and which long love song I would sing. I said this might just be gorgeous nonsense and meant it, at least for a full afternoon, for one crazy weekend, for half my life and all my semi-precious sleep, for I said just about anything if I thought a deer might hear it, a doe silhouetted at dusk on a snowy ridge, a doe musky and without symbolism in a field I still gladden to enter, her tracks barely visible in snowmelt by the time I arrive. ? 2005, David Graham More Topics Sponsored Links Spring Home Makeovers: Simplified Home Projects Made Easy Get everything you need to know about sprucing up your home for spring, from room redesigns to quick DIY projects. Advertisement Visit Related About GuideSites: Literature: Contemporary Literature: Classic Quotations Shakespeare Search About Sign up for more free newsletters on your favorite topics. You are receiving this newsletter because you subscribed to the About Poetry newsletter as anny.ballardini at TIN.IT. If you wish to change or remove your email address, please visit: http://www.about.com/nl/usgs.htm?nl=poetry&e=anny.ballardini at TIN.IT About respects your privacy. Our Privacy Policy. Our Contact Information. 249 West 17th Street New York, NY, 10011 ? 2008 About, Inc. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.5/1400 - Release Date: 4/27/2008 9:39 AM -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cervantes.james at gmail.com Sun Apr 27 16:06:22 2008 From: cervantes.james at gmail.com (James Cervantes) Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2008 15:06:22 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] fun & games at new-poetry In-Reply-To: <48139541.6080909@opus40.org> References: <648208b60804261006w162c915eo257081dbb491e2ca@mail.gmail.com> <48136EC2.2090504@opus40.org> <648208b60804261317r3b97ce86pf13ede83fd282c7e@mail.gmail.com> <481390C7.7020009@opus40.org> <648208b60804261339i6dfa8cc3n927831a4eac4b133@mail.gmail.com> <48139541.6080909@opus40.org> Message-ID: <648208b60804271306yc1dae36sc4ff3ff6ff8ceabf@mail.gmail.com> On Sat, Apr 26, 2008 at 3:49 PM, TheOldMole wrote: > So how was what I did? Domestic Argument at the Soirre Moe: Ma, non troppocana, tubacolosis ostinato! Ma: pianossissy Moe! pianosissy Moe! pianosissy Moe! Moe: Old FORTE! Ma: De jure -- con brioche? Moe: Ma, subito! Transpose yourself. I don't like the tenor of this. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~ Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org ~ http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning ~ http://www.fieralingue.it/documenti/mr_bondo.pdf ~ http://www.poetserv.org/jvc/home/index.html ~ http://www.flickr.com/photos/12364573 at N08/ From anny.ballardini at tin.it Sun Apr 27 16:21:31 2008 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2008 22:21:31 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] fun & games at new-poetry In-Reply-To: <648208b60804271306yc1dae36sc4ff3ff6ff8ceabf@mail.gmail.com> References: <648208b60804261006w162c915eo257081dbb491e2ca@mail.gmail.com><48136EC2.2090504@opus40.org><648208b60804261317r3b97ce86pf13ede83fd282c7e@mail.gmail.com><481390C7.7020009@opus40.org><648208b60804261339i6dfa8cc3n927831a4eac4b133@mail.gmail.com><48139541.6080909@opus40.org> <648208b60804271306yc1dae36sc4ff3ff6ff8ceabf@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: do not understand quite well but what I do is great, soiree (remember the accent aigue on the first 'e') tuba _colosis ostinata (tubercolosi is femminine) 'troppocana' does not come out straight, it is very strange, must find something similar 'Ma: pianossissy Moe! pianosissy Moe! pianosissy Moe!' is something... Instead of 'Transpose yourself' you could go with 'Trombone yourself' (?) ----- Original Message ----- From: "James Cervantes" To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &,Views" Sent: Sunday, April 27, 2008 10:06 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] fun & games at new-poetry > On Sat, Apr 26, 2008 at 3:49 PM, TheOldMole wrote: >> So how was what I did? > > Domestic Argument at the Soirre > > > Moe: Ma, non troppocana, tubacolosis ostinato! > > > Ma: pianossissy Moe! pianosissy Moe! pianosissy Moe! > > > Moe: Old FORTE! > > > Ma: De jure -- con brioche? > > > Moe: Ma, subito! Transpose yourself. I don't like the tenor of this. > > > > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > ~ Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org > ~ http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning > ~ http://www.fieralingue.it/documenti/mr_bondo.pdf > ~ http://www.poetserv.org/jvc/home/index.html > ~ http://www.flickr.com/photos/12364573 at N08/ > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG. > Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.5/1400 - Release Date: 4/27/2008 > 9:39 AM > > From jforjames at aol.com Sun Apr 27 19:22:05 2008 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2008 19:22:05 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Bards of YouTube Message-ID: <8CA76D4A42873CD-CE0-20D7@webmail-stg-d02.sysops.aol.com> http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/04/24/AR2008042403638.html Pop Vulture Poetry in Motion, Thanks to YouTube ? Billy Collins's poem "Now and Then" in animated form. (Youtube) ? Enlarge Photo???? Sunday, April 27, 2008; Page N02 April is National Poetry Month, and thanks to YouTube it has never been easier to celebrate. Sure, you could crack open a dusty old Robert Frost anthology and savor the rhythm of the verses inside your head, but most poems are simply more powerful heard aloud. Check out Alicia Keys performing her powder keg of a poem, "P.O.W.," or Nikki Jean's emotionally charged requiem for a lost friend, "Black." -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Sun Apr 27 19:26:02 2008 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2008 19:26:02 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Bishop in the biz Journal Message-ID: <8CA76D53128902D-CE0-2102@webmail-stg-d02.sysops.aol.com> http://online.wsj.com/article/SB120916929481746445.html?mod=googlenews_wsj Writer's Block The Poet as Survivor By BRAD LEITHAUSER April 26, 2008; Page W9 Elizabeth Bishop Edited by Robert Giroux and Lloyd Schwartz The Library of America, 979 pages, $40 In recent years, the splendid American poet Elizabeth Bishop has undergone both a canonization and a demystification. Born in 1911 in Worcester, Mass., she spent much of her childhood in Nova Scotia and much of her adult life in Brazil. Since her death, in Boston in 1979, her already lofty reputation has steadily mounted. ? Elizabeth Bishop: Quiet, modest, startlingly original Bishop has been granted literary sainthood partly for reasons that she, always a purist, stoutly insisted were extraneous to poetic evaluation -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Sun Apr 27 19:32:10 2008 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2008 19:32:10 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poet of Pepsis and burgers Message-ID: <8CA76D60C495A45-CE0-213A@webmail-stg-d02.sysops.aol.com> http://www.philly.com/inquirer/entertainment/books/20080427_Poet_of_Pepsis_and_burgers.html Posted on Sun, Apr. 27, 2008 Poet of Pepsis and burgers He writes of the ordinary in a style that only seems easy. Selected Poems By Frank O'Hara Edited by Mark Ford Alfred A. Knopf. 265 pp. $30 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Reviewed by Frank Wilson -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The poet Frank O'Hara died on July 25, 1966, a day after being struck by a Jeep on Fire Island. He was 40. O'Hara was extraordinarily prolific. As Mark Ford wryly notes in his introduction to this volume, O'Hara's 1971 Collected Poems weighs in at well over three pounds. O'Hara is perhaps best known for what he called "I do this, I do that" poetry, collected in his very popular Lunch Poems, which City Lights published in 1964. Many of the poems in that collection were typed up after O'Hara returned to his office following a lunch break - -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From david.bircumshaw at ntlworld.com Mon Apr 28 02:36:51 2008 From: david.bircumshaw at ntlworld.com (David Bircumshaw) Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 07:36:51 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] saroyan, epic, dead movements In-Reply-To: <48145C64.2060103@nut-n-but.net> References: <493255.96600.qm@web35508.mail.mud.yahoo.com><4813770F.2090603@nut-n-but.net> <48141F11.4070406@ntlworld.com> <48145C64.2060103@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <48157083.6080803@ntlworld.com> > How many of them were there, and what did they do, as poets, Dave? > > --Bob the term was a nickname and they mostly wrote subjective soliloquies and verse dramas. Some poets who have survived, like the early Tennyson, Clough, Elizabeth Barrett Browning, Beddoes (posthumosly), were lumped in with them but they really weren't part of the 'school', if school there were. William McGonagall's mentor was one of them. There's a contemporary essay (1858) from the North British Review at: http://www.gerald-massey.org.uk/massey/cpr_the_spasmodists.htm Best Dave -- David Bircumshaw Website and A Chide's Alphabet http://homepage.ntlworld.com/david.bircumshaw/ The Animal Subsides http://www.arrowheadpress.co.uk/books/animal.html Leicester Poetry Society: http://www.poetryleicester.co.uk From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Mon Apr 28 06:53:57 2008 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 05:53:57 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] saroyan, epic, dead movements In-Reply-To: <48157083.6080803@ntlworld.com> References: <493255.96600.qm@web35508.mail.mud.yahoo.com><4813770F.2090603@nut-n-but.net> <48141F11.4070406@ntlworld.com><48145C64.2060103@nut-n-but.net> <48157083.6080803@ntlworld.com> Message-ID: <4815ACC5.6000004@nut-n-but.net> Thanks, Dave. I'll go read the essay--and try to keep from becoming a spasmodic, as a result. --Bob David Bircumshaw wrote: >> How many of them were there, and what did they do, as poets, Dave? >> >> --Bob > the term was a nickname and they mostly wrote subjective soliloquies > and verse dramas. Some poets who have survived, like the early > Tennyson, Clough, Elizabeth Barrett Browning, Beddoes (posthumosly), > were lumped in with them but they really weren't part of the 'school', > if school there were. William McGonagall's mentor was one of them. > > There's a contemporary essay (1858) from the North British Review at: > > http://www.gerald-massey.org.uk/massey/cpr_the_spasmodists.htm > > > Best > > Dave > From chris.lott at gmail.com Mon Apr 28 12:54:49 2008 From: chris.lott at gmail.com (Chris Lott) Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 08:54:49 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] The Bref Double Message-ID: <9b1b9dab0804280954n73f98177sb04cfdb4e50f1af2@mail.gmail.com> I'm looking for information on (beyond what I have in Turco's _Book of Forms_ and found in Lyon's _Forms of Poetry_) the "bref double" form. Anyone? Even more useful would be examples, particularly in English, but French or other would be useful too... c -- Chris Lott From jforjames at aol.com Mon Apr 28 15:08:58 2008 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 15:08:58 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: Passing of poet Jason Schindler In-Reply-To: <802768.23914.qm@web52511.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <8CA777A7207101E-AC0-23C0@webmailbeta-m10.sysops.aol.com> Sent: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 10:20 am Subject: Passing of poet Jason Schindler For those of you who knew poet Jason Schindleror his work, I regret to inform you that he has passed away.? I enclose a note from Sophie Cabot Black regarding his memorial in NYC. There will be an additional memorial service for him at the June residency at Bennington College, where he was a teacher.? Will let you know more about that if you want. Mary Elizabeth? Sophie?s note: ? ?Dear Friends of Jason: We truly hope this is not coming to you as news; if so we apologize. We may not have been able to get to you all by phone; so with that in mind, please go forward into this email. Our dearest Jason died on Thursday, April 24th in New York City . Though his illness of the past few years was also a part of our lives with him, we all know how much he lived way way beyond that. Please come if you can on Tuesday April 29th to a service at Riverside Memorial Chapel, 180 West 76th Street in New York City , at 2PM.? Following the service, we will gather across the way. with love and very sad hearts, Sophie Cabot Black Marie Howe Lucie Brock-Broido Tony Hoagland and of course Nina, Marty, Jennah and Jamie PS: Jason moved in many worlds. So, please, if you know of anyone who would like to attend on Tuesday, or should be informed, feel free to send on this email.?? Plan your next roadtrip with MapQuest.com: America's #1 Mapping Site. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at tin.it Mon Apr 28 16:54:03 2008 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 22:54:03 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Sedaris Message-ID: I like David Sedaris, the first time I read him it was for my first (and only) fiction class. He seizes moments that are so banal that every single body has gone through them, and out of them he builds his poetry. Here's for the few lonely smokers (are there any left out there?). And a couple of quotations: http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2008/05/05/080505fa_fact_sedaris Camels were for procrastinators, those who wrote bad poetry, and those who put off writing bad poetry. (oh well, I chose Camels because they were the cheapest _no way I can go with Menthol) Ever prepared for the possibility of fire or theft, at my peak I had thirty-four cartons stockpiled in three different locations. "My inventory," I called it, as in "The only thing standing between me and a complete nervous breakdown is my inventory." (I have only three but several packets scattered here and there and, believe it or not, I consider them my treasure. Never seen anybody packet hunting and coming up with several?) Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Mon Apr 28 16:55:02 2008 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 16:55:02 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Actors and Directors Present Poetry that Inspires Message-ID: <8CA778943B5F9F3-B9C-347A@webmail-stg-d07.sysops.aol.com> http://blogcritics.org/archives/2008/04/22/184825.php Book Review - Jason Schindler's The Poem I Turn To: Actors and Directors Present Poetry that Inspires Them Written by Stephen Foster Published April 22, 2008 page 1 | 2 How about Daryl Hannah finding inspiration in Swiss poet Blaise Cendrars and Pablo Neruda? Or Diane Wiest admiring Sylvia Plath and Ezra Pound? And how perfect that Mary-Louise Parker ? perhaps our most versatile of actors, and quirkily beautiful ? surprises us with her choices: Kenneth Koch and Mark Strand. Her commentary on Koch's To You is, simply, perfect: -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd at ripon.edu Mon Apr 28 17:14:57 2008 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 16:14:57 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Jason Shinder In-Reply-To: <8CA777A7207101E-AC0-23C0@webmailbeta-m10.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CA777A7207101E-AC0-23C0@webmailbeta-m10.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <200804282114.m3SLEsZR010988@mail65c35.nsolutionszone.com> I assume "Schindler" was a typo. From the Graywolf website: Jason Shinder (1955-2008) We mourn the passing of our friend Jason Shinder. He is missed. CODA And now I know what most deeply connects us after that summer so many years ago, and it isn?t poetry, although it is poetry, and it isn?t illness, although we have that in common, and it isn?t gratitude for every moment, even the terrifying ones, even the physical pain, though we are grateful, and it isn?t even death, though we are halfway through it, or even the way you describe the magnificence of being alive, catching a glimpse, in the store window, of your blowing hair and chapped lips, though it is beautiful, it is; but it is that you?re my friend out here on the far reaches of what humans can find out about each other. ?Jason Shinder ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.mac.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== On Apr 28, 2008, at 2:08 PM, jforjames at aol.com wrote: > Sent: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 10:20 am > Subject: Passing of poet Jason Schindler > > For those of you who knew poet Jason Schindleror his work, I regret > to inform you that he has passed away. I enclose a note from > Sophie Cabot Black regarding his memorial in NYC. There will be an > additional memorial service for him at the June residency at > Bennington College, where he was a teacher. Will let you know more > about that if you want. > > Mary Elizabeth > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From david.bircumshaw at ntlworld.com Mon Apr 28 17:31:32 2008 From: david.bircumshaw at ntlworld.com (David Bircumshaw) Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 22:31:32 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] saroyan, epic, dead movements In-Reply-To: <4815ACC5.6000004@nut-n-but.net> References: <493255.96600.qm@web35508.mail.mud.yahoo.com><4813770F.2090603@nut-n-but.net> <48141F11.4070406@ntlworld.com><48145C64.2060103@nut-n-but.net> <48157083.6080803@ntlworld.com> <4815ACC5.6000004@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <48164234.2040608@ntlworld.com> > Thanks, Dave. I'll go read the essay--and try to keep from becoming a > spasmodic, as a result. > > --Bob It's a, erm, remarkable document, Bob, far more interesting, I'd say, as a reminder of cultural history, than the spasmodic poetry it reviews. Best Dave -- David Bircumshaw Website and A Chide's Alphabet http://homepage.ntlworld.com/david.bircumshaw/ The Animal Subsides http://www.arrowheadpress.co.uk/books/animal.html Leicester Poetry Society: http://www.poetryleicester.co.uk From jforjames at aol.com Mon Apr 28 19:12:48 2008 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 19:12:48 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Cave Canem poet Book Release Message-ID: <8CA779C8215E395-86C-2F6@webmail-stg-d02.sysops.aol.com> http://www.blacknews.com/news/elegy_for_a_scarred_shoulder101.shtml Compassion and Collaboration: Keys to Healing the African-American Health Crisis Cave Canem African-American Poetry Fellow Releases Book on the History of African-American Health, and Humanity's Need for Justice and Healing Detroit, MI (BlackNews.com) - Cave Canem poet, Karen S. Williams, believes that poetry is an enlightening and healing social justice tool, one that can move its readers and hearers to help eradicate the taint of the slave health deficit, health disparities experienced by Blacks due to years of explicit and implicit exposure to racism, discrimination, despair, cynicism, contempt, poverty, negative scientific and popular culture representations of them. She agrees with poet Eli Siegel when he said, 'When a person has contempt, he or she is cold to the feelings of other people. This is the beginning of all injustice, in personal lives and on a massive international scale.' She hopes that her debut collection of poetry, Elegy for a Scarred Shoulder ((ISBN: 978-0-9718214-3-9, retail $14.95) will increase individual and corporate compassion and collaborations to help correct that. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Opus40-01 at opus40.org Mon Apr 28 19:53:09 2008 From: Opus40-01 at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 19:53:09 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Actors and Directors Present Poetry that Inspires In-Reply-To: <8CA778943B5F9F3-B9C-347A@webmail-stg-d07.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CA778943B5F9F3-B9C-347A@webmail-stg-d07.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <48166365.8010100@opus40.org> I think this is great. It seems unpretentious, and can well be an introduction to poets and poetry for the fans of some of these actors, or for people who feel more comfortable approaching poetry from outside of pobiz. I liked the idea of the book, and the account of what was in it, better than I liked Mr. Foster's prose, or his tired "poetry is dead or dying" wheeze. The fact that such a range of poems has spoken to such a range of actors should be some indication that it's not. I love the original Stephen Foster, and have taught him in AmLit survey courses. jforjames at aol.com wrote: > http://blogcritics.org/archives/2008/04/22/184825.php > Book Review - Jason Schindler's The Poem I Turn To: Actors and > Directors Present Poetry that Inspires Them > Written by Stephen Foster > Published April 22, 2008 > > page 1 | 2 > How about Daryl Hannah finding inspiration in Swiss poet Blaise > Cendrars and Pablo Neruda? Or Diane Wiest admiring Sylvia Plath and > Ezra Pound? And how perfect that Mary-Louise Parker ? perhaps our most > versatile of actors, and quirkily beautiful ? surprises us with her > choices: Kenneth Koch and Mark Strand. Her commentary on Koch's To You > is, simply, perfect: > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Plan your next roadtrip with MapQuest.com > : America's #1 > Mapping Site. > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ The moral is this: in American verse, The better you are, the pay is worse. --Corey Ford From grahamd at ripon.edu Tue Apr 29 00:33:55 2008 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 23:33:55 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Verse Daily? Message-ID: <200804290433.m3T4Xqwc004029@mail62c35.nsolutionszone.com> Anyone know what's up with Verse Daily? When I try to go to their site, I get a "domain name expired" message. Did they change addresses? Go out of business? Down for maintenance? http://www.versedaily.org ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.mac.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chris.lott at gmail.com Tue Apr 29 03:02:53 2008 From: chris.lott at gmail.com (Chris Lott) Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 23:02:53 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] Verse Daily? In-Reply-To: <200804290433.m3T4Xqwc004029@mail62c35.nsolutionszone.com> References: <200804290433.m3T4Xqwc004029@mail62c35.nsolutionszone.com> Message-ID: <9b1b9dab0804290002j20c1c7e2t557816bfeb90c0bd@mail.gmail.com> On Mon, Apr 28, 2008 at 8:33 PM, David Graham wrote: > Anyone know what's up with Verse Daily? When I try to go to their site, I > get a "domain name expired" message. Did they change addresses? Go out of > business? Down for maintenance? Hopefully they just forgot to pay for their domain name registration renewal. Happens by accident quite often... c From asurkont at localnet.com Tue Apr 29 04:51:49 2008 From: asurkont at localnet.com (Amanda Surkont) Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2008 04:51:49 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Verse Daily? In-Reply-To: <200804290433.m3T4Xqwc004029@mail62c35.nsolutionszone.com> References: <200804290433.m3T4Xqwc004029@mail62c35.nsolutionszone.com> Message-ID: According to Who Is they renewed registration yesterday. Their site should be back up but depending on who maintains it and how much trouble the block caused them, maybe it will take them a day or so to recover. best, manda On Tue, 29 Apr 2008 00:33:55 -0400, David Graham wrote: > Anyone know what's up with Verse Daily? When I try to go to their > site, I get a "domain name expired" message. Did they change > addresses? Go out of business? Down for maintenance? > > http://www.versedaily.org > ======================================== > David Graham > grahamd at ripon.edu > > Home Page: > http://web.mac.com/drjazz > > Poetry Library: > http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html > ========================================== > > > > From jforjames at aol.com Tue Apr 29 11:38:37 2008 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2008 11:38:37 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Timely, or time-tested? Message-ID: <8CA78263A1B83D9-BD8-FEA@WEBMAIL-STG-D01.sysops.aol.com> http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/LAC.20080426.BKREAD26/TPStory/Entertainment Timely, or time-tested? When it comes to literary prizes, Fraser Sutherland says, jurors often maintain a high-wire balancing act between the familiar and the new FRASER SUTHERLAND April 26, 2008 To judge by their ages, most of the writers on the shortlists for this year's Griffin Poetry Prize look a tad geriatric. One is even deceased. C?sar Vallejo, whose Complete Poetry is translated by 73-year-old Clayton Eshleman, died in 1938. John Ashbery (Notes from the Air: Selected Later Poems) and Robin Blaser (The Holy Forest: Collected Poems of Robin Blaser) are in their 80s. The youngest, Erin Moure, co-translator of Nicole Brossard's Notebook of Roses and Civilization, is, at 53, a mere juvenile. Of course, the age of poets shouldn't matter, since poetry is supposed to be timeless. Much more significant is the fact that six of the seven short-listed books are Selected or Collected Poems. The Griffin thus largely avoids, this year at least, the vexed question of how to measure impressive new work against cumulative achievement. Notebook is the only book that isn't a Selected or Collected and, at less than 90 pages, is physically the slimmest. Compare the Vallejo at 718 pages, the Blaser at 520, or the Ashbery at 364 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at tin.it Tue Apr 29 14:15:40 2008 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2008 20:15:40 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fw: For Immediate Release: Gary Snyder Wins 2008 Ruth Lilly Poetry Prize Message-ID: <51183E4F09C347D996BD2ED9CE4109A1@AnnyPC> Poetry Foundation ----- Original Message ----- From: info at poetryfoundation.org To: anny.ballardini at tin.it Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2008 7:54 PM Subject: For Immediate Release: Gary Snyder Wins 2008 Ruth Lilly Poetry Prize For Immediate Release April 29, 2008 Media Contact: Anne Halsey, 312.799.8016 GARY SNYDER WINS 2008 RUTH LILLY POETRY PRIZE $100,000 lifetime achievement award is one of largest to poets CHICAGO - Poet Gary Snyder is the winner of the 2008 Ruth Lilly Poetry Prize. Established in 1986 and presented annually by the Poetry Foundation, the award is one of the most prestigious given to American poets, and at $100,000 it is one of the nation's largest literary awards. Christian Wiman, editor of Poetry magazine and chair of the selection committee, made the announcement today. The prize will be presented at an evening ceremony at the Arts Club of Chicago on Thursday, May 29. In announcing the award, Wiman said: "Gary Snyder is in essence a contemporary devotional poet, though he is not devoted to any one god or way of being so much as to Being itself. His poetry is a testament to the sacredness of the natural world and our relation to it, and a prophecy of what we stand to lose if we forget that relation." Raised in the Pacific Northwest, Snyder began writing in the 1950s as a member-with Allen Ginsberg and Jack Kerouac-of the Beat movement. For most of the 1960s he lived in Japan and studied formally in a Zen monastery. Blending physical reality-precise observations of nature-with insight received primarily through the practice of Zen Buddhism, Snyder has explored a wide range of social and spiritual matters in both poetry and prose. The judges issued the following statement in making the selection: "Gary Snyder is a true nature poet: there's no sentimentalism to his work, and he never uses the natural world simply to celebrate his own sensibility. A deeply learned and meditative artist, an impassioned ecologist, and a poet of great scope as well as intense focus, Snyder has written poems that we will be reading for as long as we've been reading Robert Frost." "The selection of Gary Snyder as this year's winner of the Lilly Prize does honor to the tradition of excellence and importance that the prize has stood for since it was established over 20 years ago," said John Barr, president of the Poetry Foundation. Snyder is the author of more than a dozen books of poetry, essays, and translations. His poetry collections include Riprap and Cold Mountain Poems, The Back Country, Regarding Wave, No Nature, Mountains and Rivers Without End, and Danger on Peaks. His essays are collected in Earth House Hold, The Real Work, A Place in Space, and Back on the Fire. A committed environmental activist who has received the John Hay Award for Nature Writing, Snyder has also been recognized for his contributions to the theory and practice of Buddhism. His many honors include the Pulitzer Prize in 1975 for Turtle Island, an American Academy of Arts and Letters award, the Bollingen Prize, a Guggenheim Foundation fellowship, the Bess Hokin Prize and the Levinson Prize from Poetry, the Robert Kirsch Lifetime Achievement Award from the Los Angeles Times, and the Shelley Memorial Award. Snyder was born on May 8, 1930, in San Francisco. He is professor emeritus of English at the University of California, Davis, and lives in northern California. Judges for the 2008 prize were poets Eavan Boland, Sandra M. Gilbert, and Christian Wiman. *** The Rabbit A grizzled black-eyed rabbit showed me irrigation ditches, open paved highway, white line to the hill. bell chill blue jewel sky banners Banner clouds flying, The mountains all gathered, juniper trees on the flanks cone buds, the snug bark scale in thin powder snow over rock scrabble, pricklers, boulders, pines and junipers, singing. The trees all singing. The mountains are singing To gather the sky and the mist to bring it down snow-breath ice-banners, and gather it water Sent from the singing peaks flanks and folds Down arroyos and ditches by highways the water The people to use it, the mountains and juniper Do it for men, Said the rabbit. First published in Poetry, March 1968. ? Gary Snyder *** About the Ruth Lilly Poetry Prize American poetry has no greater friend than Ruth Lilly. Over many years and in many ways, it has been blessed by her personal generosity. In 1985 she endowed the Ruth Lilly Professorship in Poetry at Indiana University. In 1989 she created Ruth Lilly Poetry Fellowships, for $15,000 each, given annually by the Poetry Foundation to undergraduate or graduate students selected through a national competition. In 2002 her lifetime engagement with poetry culminated in a magnificent bequest that will enable the Poetry Foundation to promote, in perpetuity, a vigorous presence for poetry in our culture. The Ruth Lilly Poetry Prize honors a living U.S. poet whose lifetime accomplishments warrant extraordinary recognition. Established in 1986 by Ruth Lilly, the annual prize is sponsored and administered by the Poetry Foundation, publisher of Poetry magazine. Over the last 20 years, the Lilly Prize has awarded more than $1,000,000. The previous recipients are Adrienne Rich, Philip Levine, Anthony Hecht, Mona Van Duyn, Hayden Carruth, David Wagoner, John Ashbery, Charles Wright, Donald Hall, A.R. Ammons, Gerald Stern, William Matthews, W.S. Merwin, Maxine Kumin, Carl Dennis, Yusef Komunyakaa, Lisel Mueller, Linda Pastan, Kay Ryan, C.K. Williams, Richard Wilbur, and Lucille Clifton. About the Poetry Foundation The Poetry Foundation, publisher of Poetry magazine and one of the largest literary organizations in the world, exists to discover and celebrate the best poetry and to place it before the largest possible audience. The Poetry Foundation seeks to be a leader in shaping a receptive climate for poetry by developing new audiences, creating new avenues for delivery, and encouraging new kinds of poetry through innovative literary prizes and programs. For more information, please visit www.poetryfoundation.org. If you no longer wish to receive emails from the Poetry Foundation, please visit http://www.poetryfoundation.org/archive/unsubscribe.html -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.6/1402 - Release Date: 4/28/2008 1:29 PM -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at tin.it Tue Apr 29 17:32:14 2008 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2008 23:32:14 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fw: For Immediate Release: Gary Snyder Wins 2008 RuthLilly Poetry Prize In-Reply-To: <51183E4F09C347D996BD2ED9CE4109A1@AnnyPC> References: <51183E4F09C347D996BD2ED9CE4109A1@AnnyPC> Message-ID: <686C26E9DE8C404D8B676E2B201F3EF1@AnnyPC> Poetry Foundation The United States are the only country that promotes such a Prize, and whatever people may say (criticism is always welcome to everybody) that promotes and supports poetry. ----- Original Message ----- From: Anny Ballardini To: New Poetry Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2008 8:15 PM Subject: [New-Poetry] Fw: For Immediate Release: Gary Snyder Wins 2008 RuthLilly Poetry Prize -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at tin.it Tue Apr 29 18:42:38 2008 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 00:42:38 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Artwork In-Reply-To: <686C26E9DE8C404D8B676E2B201F3EF1@AnnyPC> References: <51183E4F09C347D996BD2ED9CE4109A1@AnnyPC> <686C26E9DE8C404D8B676E2B201F3EF1@AnnyPC> Message-ID: <9099364706734E71ACF206B5ED3028F8@AnnyPC> Poetry Foundation Just finished this translation, Luigi Ontani is quite a God in the Arts in Italy, one to whom I usually give credit, what a challenging piece of presentation he wrote, have a look, I tried to respect meaning and sound as much as I could and as much as I understood from the original Italian version: 09/03/2008 Mani in Festa Prampolinando nell'altrove attorno al Ponte Dei Respiri, dalle scale INGRESSO androne come di GUARDIA Erma dell'arma di qua e di l? sull'arco delle SCALE dall'INTERNO ceramicoso variante del SanBernArdoClessIdra + Brancusiano con mani e PIEDI + mascherone SpaventArte con costume mantello di marine seta "Bisovazione" + maschera mano SINISTRA di 8 PAOLO SERRA di CASSANO. Inoltre estendendo invasivaMente evasiva il progetto di Bellimbusto di WWithMan con mazzolin di fiori decorato di Stelle alpine or ora partorendo coi serva dei gatti Faenza POI/PIU' gli obl? interni corridoio aggiungendo immagini SIMULACRI mitologia illogica oppure DISEGNANDO DECORANDO DIRETTAMENTE CON ORO SU VETRO ANAMORpose 10 finestre 10 photo lenticolari da sovrappore sui vetri esistenti, eventualmente lasciando piccolo SPAZIO in profondit? per fare luce in profondit? diverso per luce creando illuminazione tipo light box le IMMAGINI a misura (h 105 x ?!) sono e saranno la ritualizzazione delle maschere varianti con affinit? alla lungamanica del MamBo, da Bali, Pennellope + CiniComico + FamAE + ACengCengto + Frivolo + InSecurity + Sci?Mano + Suicidio LINGAMLINGUAlunga Tamburo Moro muro > con modello Bogem +CavalierArte con delucidazioni e definitive scelte da ROMA TRITTICOmpleto PROGETTO + MASK + PHOTO TopEng 09/03/2008 Hands in Feast Prampolining in the elsewhere around the Bridge of Sighs, from the stairs ENTRANCE hall as if on GUARD Herma of arm this side & that on the arch of STAIRS from the ceramic INSIDE variant of the SaintBernArdCleps(h)Ydra + Brancusian with hands and FEET + big mask FrightenArt with costume mantle of marine silk "Bisovation" + mask LEFT hand of 8 PAOLO SERRA of CASSANO. Moreover by extending invasivelyMind evasive the project by Beau is WWithMan with small bunch of flowers decorated by alpine Stars right now delivering coi maiden of cats Faenza AND/ADD inside portholes corridors by appending images SIMULACRA illogical mythology or DIRECTLY DRAWING DECORATING WITH GOLD ON GLASS ANAMORphased 10 windows 10 lenticular photos to set over existing glasses, eventually leaving little SPACE in depth to let light in deepness different for light by creating illumination like light box the IMAGES completely (h 105 x ?!) are and will be the ritualization of the masks variations with affinities to the longsleeve of MamBo, from Bali, BrushPenelope + CyniComic + Fam(in)E + ALedgLedged + Frivolous + InSecurity + ShaMan + Suicide + TONLEGTONGUElong Drum Moro mured > with model Bogem +KnightArt with elucidations and definitive choices from ROME TRIPTYComplete PROJECT + MASK + PHOTO TopEng -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames at aol.com Tue Apr 29 18:53:15 2008 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2008 18:53:15 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] busker Message-ID: Busker I?m reading poetry to one and all comers, on all corners of this city but they can?t meet my mind halfway. It?s like I?m making a collect call to heaven. The day is bright & right for poetry to be read aloud, words like blown kisses get caught up & carried away in wind, the kind of poetry that would end poverty as we know it in the hearts and minds of strangers, that will graffiti the blank sky and gratify their ears if only it could be heard, understood.. I stand here and they are deaf to my verses. No one will place a coin on my tongue as an offering of thanks, not even to catch in my throat, to choke me into silence. **************Need a new ride? Check out the largest site for U.S. used car listings at AOL Autos. (http://autos.aol.com/used?NCID=aolcmp00300000002851) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Tue Apr 29 21:19:34 2008 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2008 20:19:34 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] 2008 Ruth Lilly Poetry Prize In-Reply-To: <686C26E9DE8C404D8B676E2B201F3EF1@AnnyPC> References: <51183E4F09C347D996BD2ED9CE4109A1@AnnyPC> <686C26E9DE8C404D8B676E2B201F3EF1@AnnyPC> Message-ID: <4817C926.4080001@nut-n-but.net> Anny Ballardini wrote: > > The United States are the only country that promotes such a Prize, and > whatever people may say (criticism is always welcome to everybody) > that promotes and supports poetry. > As you might guess, Anny, I disagree. Prizes that support establishment poets, as Snyder now is, draw attention away from innovative poets, (and money, since people with money only give it to artists certified by prizes like this one), and poetry needs innovative poets (as Snyder was a hundred years ago). Such prizes are therefore bad for poetry. By the way, I'm not sure what you meant by the US's being the only country that promotes such a prize. The prize is just a standard big money award for multi-certified mainstream poets. Nothing unique about it that I know. --Bob G. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jbalizsprince at cox.net Tue Apr 29 22:18:57 2008 From: jbalizsprince at cox.net (judy prince) Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2008 22:18:57 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] 2008 Ruth Lilly Poetry Prize References: <51183E4F09C347D996BD2ED9CE4109A1@AnnyPC><686C26E9DE8C404D8B676E2B201F3EF1@AnnyPC> <4817C926.4080001@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <15ab01c8aa68$8c0bbf80$6501a8c0@judy> Poetry FoundationBravo, Bob. Judy ----- Original Message ----- From: Bob Grumman To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2008 9:19 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] 2008 Ruth Lilly Poetry Prize Anny Ballardini wrote: The United States are the only country that promotes such a Prize, and whatever people may say (criticism is always welcome to everybody) that promotes and supports poetry. As you might guess, Anny, I disagree. Prizes that support establishment poets, as Snyder now is, draw attention away from innovative poets, (and money, since people with money only give it to artists certified by prizes like this one), and poetry needs innovative poets (as Snyder was a hundred years ago). Such prizes are therefore bad for poetry. By the way, I'm not sure what you meant by the US's being the only country that promotes such a prize. The prize is just a standard big money award for multi-certified mainstream poets. Nothing unique about it that I know. --Bob G. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at tin.it Wed Apr 30 07:13:13 2008 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 13:13:13 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] from the Writer's Almanac Message-ID: <3F79A49B3EE34024B250478DE1B9C924@AnnyPC> Poem: "April in Maine" by May Sarton, from Collected Poems: 1930-1993. ? W.W. Norton & Company, 1992. Reprinted with permission. (buy now) April in Maine The days are cold and brown, Brown fields, no sign of green, Brown twigs, not even swelling, And dirty snow in the woods. But as the dark flows in The tree frogs begin Their shrill sweet singing, And we lie on our beds Through the ecstatic night, Wide awake, cracked open. There will be no going back. Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From david.bircumshaw at ntlworld.com Wed Apr 30 12:12:37 2008 From: david.bircumshaw at ntlworld.com (David Bircumshaw) Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 17:12:37 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Sedaris In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <48189A75.7070209@ntlworld.com> thanks for this, Anny -- David Bircumshaw Website and A Chide's Alphabet http://homepage.ntlworld.com/david.bircumshaw/ The Animal Subsides http://www.arrowheadpress.co.uk/books/animal.html Leicester Poetry Society: http://www.poetryleicester.co.uk From jbalizsprince at cox.net Wed Apr 30 14:55:43 2008 From: jbalizsprince at cox.net (judy prince) Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 14:55:43 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] from the Writer's Almanac References: <3F79A49B3EE34024B250478DE1B9C924@AnnyPC> Message-ID: <282c01c8aaf3$e1bcf0d0$6501a8c0@judy> Yes, Anny, thanks. I heard Garrison Keillor read this poem at 5 to 5 a.m. today on his weekday-ly 5-minute Lit report that always ends with a poem. It's on public radio stations here in the US and is funded by the Poetry Foundation. And, for later-risers, it repeats at 9 a.m. I, too, enjoyed the hearing and then reading of it---especially the "sneak-up" last line. Judy ----- Original Message ----- From: Anny Ballardini To: New Poetry Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2008 7:13 AM Subject: [New-Poetry] from the Writer's Almanac Poem: "April in Maine" by May Sarton, from Collected Poems: 1930-1993. ? W.W. Norton & Company, 1992. Reprinted with permission. (buy now) April in Maine The days are cold and brown, Brown fields, no sign of green, Brown twigs, not even swelling, And dirty snow in the woods. But as the dark flows in The tree frogs begin Their shrill sweet singing, And we lie on our beds Through the ecstatic night, Wide awake, cracked open. There will be no going back. Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at tin.it Wed Apr 30 16:43:18 2008 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 22:43:18 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Gary Snyder Message-ID: Also a brief mention on The New York Times: http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/30/arts/30arts-GARYSNYDERWI_BRF.html?_r=1&scp=1&sq=%22gary+snyder%22&st=nyt&oref=slogin Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Wed Apr 30 17:49:06 2008 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 16:49:06 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] from the Writer's Almanac In-Reply-To: <3F79A49B3EE34024B250478DE1B9C924@AnnyPC> References: <3F79A49B3EE34024B250478DE1B9C924@AnnyPC> Message-ID: <4818E952.7030506@nut-n-but.net> Anny Ballardini wrote: > > *Poem:* "April in Maine" by May Sarton, from /Collected Poems: > 1930-1993/. ? W.W. Norton & Company, 1992. Reprinted with permission. > (buy now > ) > > *April in Maine * > > The days are cold and brown, > Brown fields, no sign of green, > Brown twigs, not even swelling, > And dirty snow in the woods. > > But as the dark flows in > The tree frogs begin > Their shrill sweet singing, > And we lie on our beds > Through the ecstatic night, > Wide awake, cracked open. > > There will be no going back. > Nice poem, Anny. I say that only because I've already gotten my daily disagreement with you out of the way. I wonder, though, if anyone would agree with me that "Their shrill sweet singing" could have been dropped to the benefit of the poem. It seems superfluous, and I personally don't like the near-rhyme of the instances of "ing" with "in." --Bob G. > > > > > Anny Ballardini > http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ > http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome > http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html > I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a > dancing star! > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at tin.it Wed Apr 30 17:02:18 2008 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 23:02:18 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] from the Writer's Almanac In-Reply-To: <4818E952.7030506@nut-n-but.net> References: <3F79A49B3EE34024B250478DE1B9C924@AnnyPC> <4818E952.7030506@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <02222B8C11F847D0B1D0B32AAC8A8D4B@AnnyPC> It's my turn Bob (never trust a woman _they just gave on Beethoven.com: La donna e' mobile): I like that line, all the s swinging through, what I did not particularly like and would have left out is the very last line, cold, brown, twigs, dirty snow, dark flows, cracked open are already over the top in describing what she tries to summarize in the last line. ----- Original Message ----- From: Bob Grumman To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2008 11:49 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] from the Writer's Almanac Anny Ballardini wrote: Poem: "April in Maine" by May Sarton, from Collected Poems: 1930-1993. ? W.W. Norton & Company, 1992. Reprinted with permission. (buy now) April in Maine The days are cold and brown, Brown fields, no sign of green, Brown twigs, not even swelling, And dirty snow in the woods. But as the dark flows in The tree frogs begin Their shrill sweet singing, And we lie on our beds Through the ecstatic night, Wide awake, cracked open. There will be no going back. Nice poem, Anny. I say that only because I've already gotten my daily disagreement with you out of the way. I wonder, though, if anyone would agree with me that "Their shrill sweet singing" could have been dropped to the benefit of the poem. It seems superfluous, and I personally don't like the near-rhyme of the instances of "ing" with "in." --Bob G. Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.6/1404 - Release Date: 4/29/2008 6:27 PM -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Wed Apr 30 18:23:49 2008 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 17:23:49 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] saroyan, epic, dead movements In-Reply-To: <48157083.6080803@ntlworld.com> References: <493255.96600.qm@web35508.mail.mud.yahoo.com><4813770F.2090603@nut-n-but.net> <48141F11.4070406@ntlworld.com><48145C64.2060103@nut-n-but.net> <48157083.6080803@ntlworld.com> Message-ID: <4818F175.1060408@nut-n-but.net> > > There's a contemporary essay (1858) from the North British Review at: > > http://www.gerald-massey.org.uk/massey/cpr_the_spasmodists.htm > I've been reading it, David. I finally got to the part about the spasmodics. Wow, is Massey, the author ever a Victorian! Yes, a fascinating essay--so much I'm exactly in tune with, so much I couldn't be less in tune with. Among the former, this: "It is frequently the special characteristic of a nickname (ed. note: like 'spasmodic poetry'), that it shall be too vague and intangible to be seized upon and proved to be false; and so it lives, just because it cannot be caught and put to death. --Bob > > Best > > Dave > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jeff.newberry at gmail.com Wed Apr 30 20:31:05 2008 From: jeff.newberry at gmail.com (Jeff Newberry) Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 20:31:05 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Simic Stepping Down Message-ID: <731bb17a0804301731q124f2d9cm6e6c4aee5ce1e418@mail.gmail.com> Simic stepping aside as U.S. poet laureate Published: April 29, 2008 at 2:39 PM WASHINGTON, April 29 (UPI) -- A lecture on poetry translation will be the final time Charles Simic speaks as U.S. poet laureate, the Library of Congress said. "I've thoroughly enjoyed this past year," Simic said in a news release. "The best part of being poet laureate of the United States is working with the fine, dedicated and learned people at the Library (of Congress)." http://www.upi.com/NewsTrack/Entertainment/2008/04/29/simic_stepping_aside_as_us_poet_laureate/7748/ Who's on deck? Anyone know? Got this story via The Poetry Hut (http://www.poetryhut.com/wordpress/) Best, Jeff Newberry -- "Why are you wearing that stupid *man* suit?" http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Wed Apr 30 20:30:58 2008 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 20:30:58 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] from the Writer's Almanac In-Reply-To: <02222B8C11F847D0B1D0B32AAC8A8D4B@AnnyPC> References: <3F79A49B3EE34024B250478DE1B9C924@AnnyPC> <4818E952.7030506@nut-n-but.net> <02222B8C11F847D0B1D0B32AAC8A8D4B@AnnyPC> Message-ID: <8CA7939C2B998B7-152C-C12@webmailbeta-m07.sysops.aol.com> The first part of the poem doesn't do much for me, until the tree frogs (likely Hyla,?Frost has a poem?on this?Springtime?noise, I first noticed since becoming a New Englander, though? may be its Midwestern feature too.?I don't know that it's shrill or sweet but its definitely a sound that makes itself known just as spring sets in.).? The last four lines have lesbian and Dickinson undertones which redeem the slightness of?it for me... And we lie on our beds Through the ecstatic night, Wide awake, cracked open. There will be no going back. -- Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: Anny Ballardini Sent: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 5:02 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] from the Writer's Almanac It's my turn Bob (never trust a woman _they just gave on Beethoven.com: La donna e' mobile): I like that line, all the s swinging through, ? what I did not particularly like and would have left out is the very last line, ? cold, brown, twigs, dirty snow, dark flows, cracked open ? are already over the top in describing what she tries to summarize in the last line. ? ----- Original Message ----- From: Bob Grumman To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2008 11:49 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] from the Writer's Almanac Anny Ballardini wrote: Poem: "April in Maine" by May Sarton, from Collected Poems: 1930-1993. ? W.W. Norton & Company, 1992. Reprinted with permission. (buy now) April in Maine The days are cold and brown, Brown fields, no sign of green, Brown twigs, not even swelling, And dirty snow in the woods. But as the dark flows in The tree frogs begin Their shrill sweet singing, And we lie on our beds Through the ecstatic night, Wide awake, cracked open. There will be no going back. Nice poem, Anny.? I say that only because I've already gotten my daily disagreement with you out of the way.? I wonder, though, if anyone would agree with me that "Their shrill sweet singing" could have been dropped to the benefit of the poem.? It seems superfluous, and I personally don't like the near-rhyme of the instances of "ing" with "in." --Bob G. ? Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! ______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.6/1404 - Release Date: 4/29/2008 6:27 PM _______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Rsgwynn1 at cs.com Wed Apr 30 21:56:22 2008 From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com (Rsgwynn1 at cs.com) Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 21:56:22 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Simic Stepping Down Message-ID: In a message dated 4/30/2008 7:31:39 PM Central Daylight Time, jeff.newberry at gmail.com writes: > > > Simic stepping aside as U.S. poet laureate > Published: April 29, 2008 at 2:39 PM > > WASHINGTON, April 29 (UPI) -- A lecture on poetry translation will be the > final time Charles Simic speaks as U.S. poet laureate, the Library of Congress > said. > > "I've thoroughly enjoyed this past year," Simic said in a news release. "The > best part of being poet laureate of the United States is working with the > fine, dedicated and learned people at the Library (of Congress)." > > > http://www.upi.com/NewsTrack/Entertainment/2008/04/29/simic_stepping_aside_as_us_poet_laureate/7748/ > > > > Who's on deck? Anyone know? I expect the call at any minute. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jeff.newberry at gmail.com Wed Apr 30 22:04:35 2008 From: jeff.newberry at gmail.com (Jeff Newberry) Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 22:04:35 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Simic Stepping Down In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <731bb17a0804301904m1cd211bdxe629af5e266ced23@mail.gmail.com> Well, so am I, Sam. I was just trying to be modest ... Jeff Newberry On Wed, Apr 30, 2008 at 9:56 PM, wrote: > In a message dated 4/30/2008 7:31:39 PM Central Daylight Time, > jeff.newberry at gmail.com writes: > > > > Simic stepping aside as U.S. poet laureate > Published: April 29, 2008 at 2:39 PM > > WASHINGTON, April 29 (UPI) -- A lecture on poetry translation will be the > final time Charles Simic speaks as U.S. poet laureate, the Library of > Congress said. > > "I've thoroughly enjoyed this past year," Simic said in a news release. > "The best part of being poet laureate of the United States is working with > the fine, dedicated and learned people at the Library (of Congress)." > > > http://www.upi.com/NewsTrack/Entertainment/2008/04/29/simic_stepping_aside_as_us_poet_laureate/7748/ > > > > Who's on deck? Anyone know? > > > > I expect the call at any minute. > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- "Why are you wearing that stupid *man* suit?" http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From almaginnes at aol.com Wed Apr 30 22:13:21 2008 From: almaginnes at aol.com (almaginnes at aol.com) Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 22:13:21 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Simic Stepping Down In-Reply-To: <731bb17a0804301904m1cd211bdxe629af5e266ced23@mail.gmail.com> References: <731bb17a0804301904m1cd211bdxe629af5e266ced23@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <8CA794810676344-530-3404@WEBMAIL-DC11.sysops.aol.com> Can I keep my other job while I'm poet laureate? And who pays to keep the crown polished and the ermine cloak cleaned? -----Original Message----- From: Jeff Newberry Sent: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 10:04 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Simic Stepping Down Well, so am I, Sam. I was just trying to be modest ... Jeff Newberry On Wed, Apr 30, 2008 at 9:56 PM, wrote: In a message dated 4/30/2008 7:31:39 PM Central Daylight Time, jeff.newberry at gmail.com writes: Simic stepping aside as U.S. poet laureate Published: April 29, 2008 at 2:39 PM WASHINGTON, April 29 (UPI) -- A lecture on poetry translation will be the final time Charles Simic speaks as U.S. poet laureate, the Library of Congress said. "I've thoroughly enjoyed this past year," Simic said in a news release. "The best part of being poet laureate of the United States is working with the fine, dedicated and learned people at the Library (of Congress)." http://www.upi.com/NewsTrack/Entertainment/2008/04/29/simic_stepping_aside_as_us_poet_laureate/7748/ Who's on deck?? Anyone know? I expect the call at any minute. _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -- "Why are you wearing that stupid *man* suit?" http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Rsgwynn1 at cs.com Wed Apr 30 22:16:06 2008 From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com (Rsgwynn1 at cs.com) Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 22:16:06 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Simic Stepping Down Message-ID: In a message dated 4/30/2008 9:14:00 PM Central Daylight Time, almaginnes at aol.com writes: > > Can I keep my other job while I'm poet laureate? And who pays to keep the > crown polished and the ermine cloak cleaned? Bob Grumman has volunteered to do that for free as it's primarily a visual thing. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: